Transubstantiation exploded: or An encounter vvith Richard the titularie Bishop of Chalcedon concerning Christ his presence at his holy table Faithfully related in a letter sent to D. Smith the Sorbonist, stiled by the Pope Ordinarie of England and Scotland. By Daniel Featley D.D. Whereunto is annexed a publique and solemne disputation held at Paris with Christopher Bagshaw D. in Theologie, and rector of Ave Marie Colledge.

TO RICHARD SMITH Dr. of the Sorbone intituled by the Pope B. of Chalcedon and Ordinarie of England and Scotland , D. F. wisheth a better 1. Title . 2. Cause . 3. Advocate .

PAR. 1.

Of the empty and ayerie title of Bishop of Chalcedon .

NO men Omen . The style wherwith the Pope graceth you , seemes to me ominous and to bode you a meere titulary●…gnity ●…gnity and a blinde Diocesse . For I read in a a Strabo geograph l. 7. p 221. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. Strabo and b b Plin. nat. l. 6. cap. 32. Chalcedon Procerastis antea dicta dein Comp●…sa postea ●…corum opp●…dum quod locum eligere nescissent . Plinie that the inhab●… tants of Chalcedon were by the Orac●… of Apollo antiently tearmed blinde me●… because they could not see to build the●… City upon the more commodious si●… of the shore . And I c c Concil. Chalced. act. 7 & Binius nota in concil . Tom. 2. 〈◊〉 . 409. Cum Imperator instaret 〈◊〉 Chalcedon nomine ●…enus Metropolis 〈◊〉 consequ●…retur citra pr●…iudicium N comed●…e 〈◊〉 c●…ilij act. 7 communi consensu admiserunt . finde that at th●… instance of the Emperour Marcian●… the Fathers in the fourth generall cou●… cell advanced this City to the title of Metropolitan See : yet without th●… priviledges belonging thereunto , ju●… as his Holinesse sent to you from Ro●… the shadow of a Mitre without the su●… stance , and conferred on you the title 〈◊〉 Ordinary of all England and Scotla●… without any revenue to mantaine and support your Port and State . Whe●… at notwithstanding the d d Pr●…es : gener●… & 〈◊〉 regiminis congregat . 〈◊〉 , Benedictinorum . Benedictine●… e e H●… ma●… 〈◊〉 spongia Nicolao Richardij ordinis Sancti dominici d●… 〈◊〉 . ●…aropoli 1631. Eccles. angli●…an : querimon : apologet : 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Jacobines and f f A modest discussion by Nicolas Smith , approved Iohn Floyd Iesui●… , printed at Roven , Anno. 1630. apolog. Danielis a Ie●… Jesuits so barke a●… bawle in print , that not onely Engla●… and Ireland , but also France and Ro●… her selfe rings of them . And althoug●… the most celebri●…us University of Pa●… hath let flie two fierce g g 〈◊〉〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 Paris 1●… . P●…us A●…relius 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Sorb . 〈◊〉 . Paris 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 to ●…ake these curres , and the h h Epist. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Paris 1631. Arch-Bi●…ops and Bishops of France have laid 〈◊〉 them amaine with their crozure ●…ves , and the faculty of i i 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the ●…log . Paris 〈◊〉 . 1631. Sorbon with ●…r battone , yet they will not be quiet . 〈◊〉 strange thing to heare those who ●…ast so much of Catholike unity to ●…ndie the tearmes of Schismatike and ●…eretike so familiarly one to the other , 〈◊〉 Sorbonists to the Jesuites , and the ●…suites by back-racket againe to the ●…orbonists : and yet a stranger to see ●…erius revived in Ignatius Loyolae , and puritane buds to sprout out of a Iesuites stocke . Geneva was wont to be branded for denying the necessity of confirmation by a Bishop , or of a Bishop at all in the Church , but now S. k k Censur●… . Sorb de 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 . p. 42. & de Hierar . & ●…p , p 48 49 〈◊〉 chris●…te 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ab Episcopo 〈◊〉〈◊〉 per●… s●…t christiani & legi divinae satisfit licet nulli sint Episcopi in 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Anglia . Omers hath justified Geneva . Thus l l Schisme 〈◊〉 card 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●…mentis ingenij postquam in unum extremum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ner●… 〈◊〉 rationem sese a praeterito cri●…e 〈◊〉 op●… 〈◊〉 putarunt si se aed 〈◊〉 extremum conferrent & 〈◊〉 papa●… 〈◊〉 . errours run in a ring , and though diametrally opposite at first , yet meet at the last in the Center . In the meane while , what doth Monsieur Le-Pape ? eitherlike m m Sw●…t . in vita Neron . Nero he singeth a Poem of his o●… making to his Thearbo , when he see●… dangerous fire kindled within the wa●… of Rome , or like Gallio Deputie in 〈◊〉 Acts , Chap. 18. Ver. 15. he account●… these controversies ( which yet to●… not onely all Bishops Miters , but 〈◊〉 Triple-crowne also ) to be questions words and names and will be no judge such matters , and letteth the Monk take * * The Arch-Bishop of Paris . See qu●…rimonia Eccles. angl . v. 17. Sosthenes and other chiefe R●… lers of the Romish Synagogues and be●… them before his judgement seate and 〈◊〉 reth for none of these things . N●… certes his Holinesse is doubly to bla●… First , to reward your eminent pa●… both naturall and morrall , improved 〈◊〉 learning and travell , and emplo●… wholy to the advancement of the Pa●… cie , with no better a guerdon then 〈◊〉 emptie title of a hungry n n Praeses Benedictin : F. Clemens p. 175. Ep scopu●… titularis 〈◊〉 Gr●…a non nisi impropriè & valdè pr●…ter na●…ram potest 〈◊〉 caput corporis nostri in Anglia . Horat. Graeculus ●…suriens in coelum 〈◊〉 , ibit . Greeke 〈◊〉 shoprick . Next when he saw his o o Exemplar 〈◊〉 Vrbani octavi per quod Episcop●…lis authori●… , Richardo Chal●…edonēsi demandatur . D●… Rom●… sub annulo 〈◊〉 , 4 Februarij ●…25 . Br●… come short of his intendment , and yo●… hopes : not to inlarge it out of the p●… nitude of his papall power , and tak●… short course with your mutinous Mo●… who not onely resist but openly i●… pugneit , and your jurisdiction found●… thereon .

First upon the matter he grants you ●…othing and afterwards he maketh not ●…ood that his nothing . Perdis & infaeli●… ipsum nihil — Iuvenal Satyr : 〈◊〉 infaeli●… ips●…m nihil . Not to question his Holinesse interest ●…n the Bishoprick of Chalcedon subor●…inate to the Greeke Patriarke , and at ●…is day in captivitie with her native ●…ishop under the grand Signior : I would faine know what this title of Bishop of Chalcedon importeth you ? What are the revenewes of this new ●…rected See , transported out of Bithynia into England by miracle , as our Ladies picture and Chappell were out of Palestine Hi●…re . de 〈◊〉〈◊〉 d●… L●…tto to Lauretto ? what is the circuit of your Dioces ? what commendams hold you with it ? what benifices have you in your gift to preferre your Chaplaine and Champion S. E. unto ? where is your Episcopall Pallace situated ? where stands the Mother-Church ? on which side of it is your Consistorie built ? where keepe you your Cou●…t ? surely no where , except in Nido o o See 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of S E. his pamphlet 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the sig●…e 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 . And ●…ill n●… 〈◊〉 ●…ou . 〈◊〉 ●…phlet ●…e 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 th●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 her bones . 〈◊〉 , the nest of the Phaenix at the signe whereof your booke was printed . I received it from a good band , ●…hat all your receits from Chalcedon will not buy you a true Chalcedo●… A pretious stone mentioned in the Apoc. 2●… 19 the third a Cal●…edonie , the f●…rth an Emerald . Wherefore as the Cardinall of Sa●… Susanne when divers Romish Prie●… repayred unto him the 19. of Octob●… 1624. desiring his Grace in the na●… of their Chapter to further what 〈◊〉 could a motion they then made to hi●… admonished them to mend their peti●… on , and instead of nomine capituli s●… in the name of their Chapter to wri●… nomine cleri Anglicani , in the name●… the English Clergie : for your Chap●… saith he is a p p ●…ra . Clemens de mand●…to re●…m : 〈◊〉 . p●…es , gen●… muit 〈◊〉 nomine c●…ert Anglicani : nam c●…pitulum chimaericum●…st ●…st . Chimaera : so I wou●… advise you to sticke to your title Arch-Priest over the seculars in E●… land , nam Episcopatus vester Chalce●… nensi●… chimaericus est , for your 〈◊〉 shoprick of Chalcedon is a chimaera●…●…re ●…ion . As for your other t●… of Ordinarie of England and Scotlan●… I cannot skill of it : the Engl●… 2 2 Pr●…pos . Benedicit . Chalced●… ens●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●…abet 〈◊〉 ●…m n●…c 〈◊〉 nec de●… 〈◊〉 Angli●… & 〈◊〉 regna , &c p. 31. & p 83. iam 〈◊〉 Sco●…s cum risu ●…anc Ordinarij praetensam authoritat●…m reiecisse . Monkes seriously dispute you out●… it , and the Scottish Priests saw●… jeare at you for it . As for us , who y●… know have abjured the Popes pow●… both Ecclesiasticall and Temporal whether Urbane the eight intend to r●… duce the Kingdomes of England a●… Scotland into one Diocesse , & make y●… Bishop of it , or into one Parish , and make you Pastour of it , we account his Vid. Poem V●…b 8. 〈◊〉 . designe therein none other then the worke of his poeticall fancie , and have no more faith in his Briefe then in Ovids Metamorphosis :

In nova fert animus mutatas dicere formas Regna .

Our Arch-Bishops , Bishops , Ordinaries , and Pastours in both these Kingdomes possessing all the Sees , and enjoying peaceably under our most Gratious Soveraigne , the entire rights thereof , will ease your seven r r 〈◊〉 Loemelij 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 apostolic●… . Vicars and Bithynian Collectour of his paines . As for the Recusants charity , it goeth another way , they are no lesse Recusants to your authority , then to our lawes : for albeit your great Pan at Rome hath committed the greatest 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . part , if not all his spotted sheepe to your Pastorall charge : yet they yeeld you little or no profit , because they are sheared to your hands : especially by the Iesuits whom Reverardentius ap●…ly 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . tearmeth in this respect equi●…es aurei velleris , Knights of the golden fl●…ece .

PAR. 2.

Of the cold entertainement which Engli●… and Irish Priests finde beyond the Sea , how well soever deserving of the See of Rome .

WHen Hanniball saw the hea●… of his brother Asdrubal hel●… upon a speare at the command of Cla●…dius Nero , he said , video fatum Carth●… ginis , I see the destinie of Carthage , 〈◊〉 me thinkes I see in you fatum Angloru●… & Hibernorum , the fate of our Engli●… and Irish Papists , which is at this pre sent , and hath ever beene to yeeld mo●… to the Romane See , and to receive lea●… from her . Pope Urbane the third , fo●… Ca●…bden hist. ef●… . Elizab. ad annum 40. all the gold which by one trick or othe●… he got out of Ireland , sent in old time●… Coronet of Peacocks feathers to Ioh●… the sonne of Henry the second , wh●… was designed Lord of Ireland : an●… in our memorie , Clement the eight mo●… bountifully rewarded the Earle of Tyrone , for exhausting his patrimonie upon the Irish rebels , with store of indulgences and a Phenix plume . Wh●… ever deserved better of the Romis●… faith and See , then Iohannes Roffensis , Allin , Stapleton , Sanders , W. Reynolds , Harding , and your selfe ? yet what hath beene done to any of you for all that you have done and suffered in the Popes quarrell ? To one of you a Cardinals hat was sent indeed , but never came on the party his head , which was cut off by Henry the eight , to an other a Cardinals hat was given , but with so thinne lining , ( I meane , meanes to support his estate ) that he was commonly called the starveling Cardinal . The third was made professour of a pettie University , scarce so good as one of our free Schooles in England . The fourth , whose tongue was so full of adders poyson against his Soveraigne and Countrey , before he died felt his tongue cleaving to the roofe of his mouth , being starved to death in Ireland . The fifth was nominated to a poore Vicaridge under vallew : on a sixt his Holinesse bestowed a prebend of Gaunt , or to speake more properly a gaunt prebend . And you for weighing so stedily both religions ( the Reformed and the Romish ) in a s s A 〈◊〉 printed by D. Smith , 〈◊〉 th●… prudentia●…l ballance . prudentiall ballance , he hath placed in a pendulous Bishopricke adjoyning to t t Martial epig. l. 1. aere pendentia Mausolea . Mausolus his Sepulcher in the ayre . For your so accuratly and learnedly maintaining all the Romish tenets , hee hath at last made you u u So the Italians call in de●…ision a titular Bishop . nullatenensem a hold . nought . When Saint x x Mat. 17. 4. Peter spake of making Tabernacles in the aire , the y y Luke 9. 33 Evangelist saith , hee knew not what hee said : and now when his pretended successour , Pope Urbane the eight foundeth Episcopall Sees , and Cathedrall Churches , and Ecclesiasticall Courts in the aire , may we not bee bold to say that hee doth hee knowes not what , and deserveth the title of sapientum octanus .

It is not for nothing that hee assumeth to himselfe the name of Urbane , or the facetious who requiteth his best servants and chiefest favourites with jests and riddles - For read my riddle what 's this ? the Supervisour of a See unseene a Bishoprick of Chalcedon in Brittanie , an extraordinary Ordinary , a Diocesan of particulars universals , Romish Catholikes , English Romanists , and Superiour t●… all the irregular regulars in Engla●… and Scotland .

PAR 3.

What a kind of Religion Popery is .

HOw be it were the cause you maintayne good , the fortune you sustaine could in no sort prejudice you , either in your conscience , or your credit . For to follow Christ naked is an honour and an ornament to a Christian : and Solomon hath left this for one of his divine essayes , that the *a *a 〈◊〉 9 ▪ 〈◊〉 . race is not to the swiftest , nor the battaile to the strongest , nor yet bread to the wise , nor riches to men of understanding , nor favour to men of skill , nor the greatest preferment to the b b 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . worthiest . The golden bishopricke of Carthage fell to the lot of leaden c c Concil a●… . rica●… in subscript sub Bo●…ace 〈◊〉 Celesti●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉 p●…●…55 . Aurelius , and little Hippo to great St. Austine , of whom we may truly say concerning Hippo , as it was said of d d 〈◊〉 . m●… 〈◊〉 ●…x Euripid●…s q●…am E●…pides ex . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Euripides concerning his familiarity with Archelaus , that Hippo was better knowne by S. Austine then St. Austine by Hippo. Let it not seeme strange that men of meaner worth set the best leg forward , and outstrip their betters now adayes : when in the ancient and better times of the Church Damasus the schollar was advanced to the first See , and e e Hieren ad Damasum papam epist. 143 , 144 , 145 146 , &c. Ieromie his Master ( to whom even after he was Pope he expounded many difficult places of Scripture ) ended his dayes in his Cell at Bethlem . And Gregorie Nazianzen the learnedest of all the Greeke fathers and surnamed the divine in the sharing of preferments in Capadocia could get but the poorest and most incommodious Bishopricke in all that province : about which he expostulates with Saint Basil. A rich stone is of no lesse worth when it is locked up in a Epist. 31. wicker kasket , then when 't is set in a Bishops mytre . The wise Historian observed that the statues of f f Tacit : annal: eo praefulgebant quod non visebantur . Brutus and Cassius were the more glorious and illustrious , because they were not brought out with other Images in a solemne procession at the funerall of Germanicus . And in like manner men of excellent endowments when they are neglected in states , are by so much the more inwardly reverenced by how much they receive the lesse outward honour , and advancement . Cato was in the right who said he had rather men should question why he had no statue or monument erected unto him , then why he had . For certainely men honour them more who aske why such and such men are not preferred , then they who enquire why such men are preferred , or what worth is in them correspondent to the titles they beare . But what s this to your either advancement or disesteeme in the See of Rome ; Saint Cyprian teacheth us that if a man suffer death in an erroneous beliefe , being fallen away from the truth , his suffering is not corona fidei but paenaperfidiae , not a crowne of faith , but a punishment of his perfidiousnesse . It is just that they who wrong their native soyle should be disrespected in forraigne countries . Had you continued in the universitie of Oxford , you might have beene not only according to your name , faber a Smith , but even Aurifaber a gold-smith to forme many pretious vessels for Gods Sanctuarie , whereas now since your revolt from your Religion , and departure out of this kingdome you have turned silver-smith , like those in the Acts that Acts. 19. 14. made shrines for Diana , they for Diana of Ephesus , you of Rome , or rather , like Alexander , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 a Copper-smith . Aeneas when he left Troy , carried his Father , and his gods out with him : 〈◊〉 you when you forsooke your countr●… left your mother and your religion a●… behind you , and you have ever sin●… spent all your time in maintaining a●… propagating by your tongue and pen●… a Religion , which is where it diff●… from us , nothing else but a cento 〈◊〉 g g See the booke of the 3. confirmities Whitaker . Cont 2. de not . eccle. q. 5. C. 7. Rivet summa . cont. q. 1. hotch-potch of diverse heresies and superstitions . A religion which loosene●… and dissolveth all bonds of vowes , a●… religious obligations by papall dispe●… sation , or Iesuiticall aequivocation : 〈◊〉 religion which sacrilegiously robbe●… God of his honour , Christ of his praerogatives , and Princes of their soveraignty . A religion which blasphemous●… derogateth from the sufficiency o●… Scripture , impiously mutilateth both the ten Commandements , ( cutting ou●… the second ) and the Sacrament ( taking the cup from the laitie : ) praesumptuously addeth to the Apostles creed as many more new Articles , Idolatrously worshipeth Images , pictures , shrines , reliques , the Crosse , and the consecrated wafer , superstitiously halloweth creame , spittle , medals , and beades , &c. A religion whose last resolution of faith is into the Pope , who hath beene oftentimes an heretike and sometimes a necromancer . A religion which warranteth subjects to take armes against their h h Bellar. l. 〈◊〉 de Rom po●… . c. 7. Sipri●… cipos conentur ●…vertere pop●…lum a sule possunt 〈◊〉〈◊〉 privari suo daminio , et non licet christianis solerare regem infidelem 〈◊〉 hereticum . vid. Bulla●… Pauli cons. Hon. 8. 〈◊〉 Pij . 5. cont. Eliza , et l Card. Alani cuitit An admonition to the nobilitie of England & Ieland concerning the present warr●… made for the execution of his holinesse sentence against & Elizabeth . Clement . 8. his Bull and letters to Tyron Set downe at large in my L. Carew his booke tit . pacata : Hiber . l 3. c. 18. Soveraigne , canonizeth i i 〈◊〉 the Iesuites chatechisme Apolog. Garneti Amphitheatrum honoris et lit . Card. Commensis ad Parreum perduellionis reum et ca●…al . mar●…y . Jesuit . c●…messig . et nom . excus . lutes . parri●…des , and crowneth traytours with the garlands of martyrs . A religion which dispenseth with incestuous marriages and sins against nature , sets a rate upon all k k Taxa Camere Apostol wess . cont indulg . crimes and draweth a revenew from the sinkes of all impuritie ( stewes and brothels ) a tribute farre worse then that of Vespasian ex lotio . Had I contested with you in our meeting at Paris about any of these no lesse unexcusable then unsufferable impieties of your Romish pseudocatholike faith , into what an agonie should I have put you ; when conferring rather then disputing with you according to the lawes praescribed by the company calmely and peaceably about one of the most plausible tenets of your Trent Creed , in which you make most show of Fathers and brag of Scriptures , you were foiled in every argument : and driven t●… much perplexitie and miserable esc●… patories , as I will presently make it appeare after I have acquainted the reader with the issue of other former conferences in France , which occasioned this with you .

PAR. 4.

The issue of divers disputations in France , and how the Romanists have had alwaies the worst in conferences with Protestants .

VPon the sad newes of the death of Henry the fourth , whom Ravaliach ran into the side with a stiletto in Paris , neere the Church of Saint Innocents , right over against the house , whose signe was the flever de lies his owne armes : Sir Thomas Edmonds being sent with all speede into France to be liedger Embassadour for his Majesty of Great Brittaine , left order with D. King then Vicechancellor of Oxford ( afterwards Lord Bishop of London ) to provide him a Chaplaine ; who with much importunity drew me greene from the Universiry , after my first solemne a a The rehearsall Sermon , Anno 16●…0 . exercise in Saint Maries , to this employment in France . Where I was no sooner arrived , but I heard of divers English Priests resident there , who not onely set upon our English Gentlemen that travelled into those parts , and fixed some of them in the wrong , who before were unsetled in the right : but put the Embassadours Chaplaines also oftentimes to some trouble . These were D. Stanhurst , D. Wright , D. Bagshau , D. Stevens , D. Smith the elder , D. Champney , M. Reyner , M. Meridith , and others , with whom I declined all manner of contestation in point of Religion for a great while , not upon any distrust of the cause , neither any feare lest they should gaine upon the truth , or unsettle me or any other in any ground of our most Orthodoxe beliefe . For blessed be God , as in former times , so in our age we see the promise of our Saviour daily fulfilled in divers of the reformed Religion , who have beene b b See Acts and Monuments of the Church . Cri●…pin in Mar●…rolog . Histoire Des Vaud . convented before your Inquisitours , c c Luke 〈◊〉 15. I will give you a mouth and wisedome which all your adversaries shall not be able to gaine-say nor resist . And as o●… of the mouth of women and d d Mat. 21. 16. Psal. 8. 2. childre●… hee hath perfected praise , so in publi●… disputations betweene the learned Doctors on both sides , hee hath ev●… e e Mat. 12. 20. brought forth judgement on our si●… unto victory . Witnesse the solem●… disputation in the Synod of Basil betweene the f f Orthwinus Gratius in fascic rer . expetend . & sug . Huzzites and your Prelats and Doctors , in the yeare of o●… Lord , 1438. Wherein Iohannes Rok●… zanus the Taborite , and Petrus P●… mus our Countrey man , so worth●… acquitted themselves in the defer●… of the Bohemian Articles , that they r●… gained from that Synod the free use●… the holy cup in the Sacrament for t●… Laity . Witnesse the disputation betweene Martin Luther , and Eckius 〈◊〉 at Lipsia by the Appointment of Du●… George of Saxonie , Anno 15●…9 . 〈◊〉 which I may say as the Oratour speaketh of g g Cic : orat●…r Marcelli pugna ad Nolam populus Romanus primò se erexit postea multae res prosperae cosecutae sunt . Marcellus his battell wit●… Hanniball at Nola , it gave the first li●… to the reformed partie in Germany , an●… after it the affaires of religion went 〈◊〉 most prosperously . Witnesse the disputation at Zurick , appointed by the Bishop of Constance , betweene Faber S●…apulensis , and Zuinglius , Anno 1523. at which the Champion for the Romish partie was so daunted , that after a flourish , he said in that great assemblie , that the cognition and determination of differences in religion pertained to a generall councell which was neare at hand , and that he would confute the doctrine of his adversary by writing , dispute he would no longer : the issue was the Senate of Zuricke presently proclaimed reformation . Witnesse the disputation a●… Baden , Anno 1525. betweene Oecolampadius and Eckius , where Eckius sate downe by the losse , and the Church gained all the reformed Pagi of Helvetia . Witnesse the disputation at Berne in Anno 1527. betweene Conradus Treyerus an Augustin Frier , and Martin Bucer . This disputation held 19. daies , the issue whereof was a pillar erected by the Senate at Berne : in which they wrote in golden letters the day and yeare of their reformation . To come neerer home ; Witnesse the disputation begun a●… Westminster by the commandement of Queene h h Humfred in vit●… Iewel . ●…ox Acts & Monuments . Tom. 3. p. 〈◊〉 Elizabeth , Anno 1559. betweene D. Story Bishop of Chichester , D. Cocks , M. Whitehead , M. Grindol , M. Horne , D. Sands , M. Gest , M. Elmer , M. Iewel on the one side for the Protestants , and the Bishops of Winchester , Litchfield , Chester , Carlile , Lincolne , D. Cole , D. Harpsfield , D. Langdale , D. Chedsey on the other side , in which after the Protestants had given the charge , the Popish party presently sounded a retreat , and upon frivolous pretences brake up the conference , witnesse the Epistle of i i Gerson Archiepisc. Prag : neque rursus in disputando apud tales , &c. ullus unquam 〈◊〉 fini●… ; scandalizabitur populus denique talis protervitas incidit in illud poetae aegrescitque medendo l. de punit : haere●… . non est publicè disputandum cum ●…aeretico praese●…tim pertinaci . Sunt enim haeretici in disputando disertissimi & sciunt optimè disput ationum retia tendere . Huiu●… rei exemplum nobis praeluit publica disputati●… cum Luthero Litsia habita . Gerson to the Arch-Bishop of Prague , in which hee disswadeth him from putting the matter of Religion to a Triall in disputation , because by such a course taken with the Huzzites , the noble forerunners of our protestant faith , the people would be scandalized , and the wound given already to the Church , would be made worse by the cure . And lastly , witnesse the determination of ᵏ Alfonsus a Castro , we ought not saith he publikely to dispute with an hereticke , especially if he be pertinacious , for heretikes are most nimble in disputation , and very skilfull to spread nets of arguments , as we have an example in the publike disputation with Luther at Lipsia .

I had no reason therefore to doubt our arguments or cause which like P●…rtas Caesare●… & fortunam 〈◊〉 . Eras. Apoth . Caesar hath ever beene victorious . Yet partly because I had not as then spent so much time in the studie of controversies , as I thought requisite for him who was to encounter with veterani milites , old souldiers of the Popes traine band : partly because I knew whatsoever my performance might be , the major part of the spectators addicted to the Romish partie , would doe me no right in the relation ; I carefully avoided all conflicts with them , till by a wile I was drawne into the lists with Christopher Bagshan D. D. sometimes fellow of Baily Colledge in Oxford , and afterwards Principall of Gloster-Hall . This D. I met at M. Alexanders a Scottish Papist his house at a dinner , to which my Lord Embassadours Secretary , M. Woodford and my selfe were invited . At the last service , M. Alexander blew the coale , and D. Bagshan presently tooke fire : and immediately after dinner we fell 〈◊〉 it with great vehemency for man●… houres . What this conference wroug●… with others there present , I cannot say but sure I am , it left many scruples 〈◊〉 M. Alexanders minde . From that ho●… he began to question the Romish Religion in which hee was borne and bre●… and divers times after he repaired to m●… to instruct him more fully in the doctrine of the reformed Churches , a●… when he lay upon his death bed , he ea●… nestly desired those about him to se●… for me with all speed : but they bei●… zealous in the Romish Religion , a●… conceiving that my conference wi●… him would set him further of from t●… same , fulfilled not his last desire , but in stead of me , brought to him a Popis●… Priest , who finding him drawing on 〈◊〉 his end , offered to administer to hi●… their Sacrament of extreame unction which he refused to receive from him This a servant of his with weeping eyes after his buriall related at my Lord Embassadours house . My nex●… conflict was with D. Stevens , occasioned by an English Gentlewoman , wh●… falling into want , and being relieve●… 〈◊〉 his meanes , was easily drawne by ●…m to heare their Lent Sermons ; and at Easter , the Papists who had contributed to her necessities , made full account that then she would communicate with them , and renounce our Church . But that she might not be thought to be drawne to them for temporall respects , and that D. Stevens might have the honour to win her from us by disputation , he and she both by themselves and their friends , importuned me to give them a meeting at M. Porie his Chamber in the Fauxburg of Saint Germaines . I fought at the first what I could to put it off , because I had an inckling that this conference was sought for , onely to give some colour to her intended revolt from us : yet being deepely adjured by her , as I tendered the good of a soule bought with Christs blood , and being directly challenged in the end by D. Stevens , I met at the time and place appointed . Where the Doctor made an eloquent speech , imbroidered with all variety of learning , wherewith many there present were much taken , but when he came to dispute , and was tied to propound his arguments in a syllogisticall forme , and so propounding the●… received some unexpected answers , 〈◊〉 quite lost himselfe , being derided 〈◊〉 some , and pittied by others in reg●… of his great age . At the next meeti●… which was farre more solemne , 〈◊〉 Lord Clifford and divers other perso●… of great quality being present , D. S●…vens gave way to D. Bagshau to disp●… for him ; who first answered , and af●… opposed in the question by the audit●… proposed , and by us stated ; the sum●… of which disputation was taken 〈◊〉 M. Arscot and M. Ashley there prese●… and by M. M. P. sent over to his Gr●… See the relation thereof in the end of this Treatise . of Canterbury . The Gentlewo●… after these conferences gave lesse ho●… to the Papists then before , whereup●… their charity waxing cold towards h●… the next newes I heard of her was t●… she was cast in prison for debt , wh●… I visiting her , found her constant in 〈◊〉 truth , and firmely resolved by Go●… grace never to enthrall her soule to R●…mish Idolatry and superstition , to 〈◊〉 deeme her body from that miserab●… captivity , being committed to a clo●… and nastie prison in a strange Count●… among those that hated her with a pe●… f●…ct hatred for the constant love she●…●…re to the truth .

PAR. 5.

Of the absurd title in the frontispice of Edward Stratford his pamphlet , and how lamely and imperfectly both he and his Lord and Fisher and Weston have answered former treatises set out by the Author .

ABout this time you came to Paris and understanding what had past betweene me and your pue-fellowes for reasons best knowne to your selfe , you dealt with M. Iohn Fourd by M. Knevet his halfe brother to draw us together to a friendly conference , which soone after your arivall he also effected as your Chaplaine S. E. relateth , in his introduction to your conference , to which he hath prefixed an absurd title viz The conference mentioned by D. F. in the end of his Sacriledge , frontispicium sine fronte . Is the sacriledge which I detect and convict your church of by the joynt testimonie of all ages , my sacriledge ? can he make this goo●… by his Doway logicke ? suum cuique , giv●… every man his owne , the booke is min●… the sacriledge is yours . He that de●… fendeth or excuseth any heresie 〈◊〉 crime in an other , I grant makes it 〈◊〉 own , and what the great Lawyer Ulpi●… spake of parricide , may be said as tru●… of sacriledge , the iustification of so fow●… an act , intitleth the patron thereof●… the crime it selfe , and taints him 〈◊〉 deepe or deeper then if he had co●…mitted the very act . In which consid●…ration if M. Everard or your Chaplai●… S. E. or any other drunke with 〈◊〉 Whores a a Apoc. 17. 4 cup shall be so hardie as i●… replie to that booke of mine to mai●… taine or excuse your sacriledge in tak●… away the cup from the laity , his rep●… may be justly tearmed his sacriledg●… But contrarywise to tearme a boo●… written ex professo against sacriledg●… the authours sacriledge , hath neith●… colour of truth nor rellish of wit , 〈◊〉 what can be more absurd then to tear●… Mithridates his confection against po●… son , Methridates his poyson ? or Por●… Latro his invective against conspira●… Portius his conspiracie ? or 〈◊〉 Emperours Law against adulterie , the Lex Iu●… de Adulter●… vid. Bullarium Ro. Pontif . L●…th . 10. 1. contra Execrabil●… bullam . Anti christi . Emperours adulterie ? or the Popes bull ●…gainst simony , the Popes simony ? or Luther his declamation against Pope Leo his execrable bull , Luther his bull ? ●…piphanius hath written a speciall booke ●…gainst all heresies , Acontius against ●…athans stratagems , The Bishop of ●…uresme against the grand imposture of ●…e Romane church , Reynold against the ●…dolatrie thereof , Stapleton against the 7. deadly sinnes , will he call the first , ●…piphanius his heresies , the 2. Acontius ●…is stratagems , the 3. The Bishop of Du●…sme his grand imposture , the 4. Doctor Reynolds his Idolatrie , the last Stapleton ●…is 7. deadly sinnes . Let his frontispice ●…hen blush for shame , and by his owne ●…eason take sacriledge to himselfe , and ●…all it his sacriledge , because it is his ●…tle : and let him cite the title of my booke true as it is , The grand sacriledge ●…f the Church of Rome , that he may have at least one true quotation in all his booke .

In my booke ( which he so nicknameth ) a great beame is discovered in the eye of the Romane church : in the ●…elation of the conference appendant thereunto a mote in your eye . Why doth he so earnestly endeavour to take out the mote out of your eye , and leave the beame in his mothers eye the church of Rome , is your credit dearer to him then his catholike beliefe ? or thought he●… himselfe sufficiently provided to encounter the small skiffe attending on the great vessel , not the great vessel it selfe ? If he and the rest of you so much slighten my endeavours against your Trent Faith , that you thinke them not worthie the taking notice off , why doe you put forth answers to part of them ? if you esteeme them fit to bee looked after , and put to the test of examination , why doe you not answer them entirely ? but to halfes , or not so much as to halfes , scarce to the tenth part , some of you like birds pecke at the blossomes of my words , other at the barke of my praefaces , or praeambles , none of you yet hath pierced into the heart or pith of any polemical treatise written by me . Your stout champion b b In a pamphlet intituled the repaire of honour . Imprinted at ●…uges , An : 1●…4 . D. Weston bravely chargeth my Epistle to the A replie to D Featlies answere to M. ●…rs 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 An. 〈◊〉 reader and presently repaires to his fort for feare of gunshot . M. Iohn Fisher the Jesuite advanceth a little further , hee shapeth some kinde of answer to a piece of my preamble to the Romish Fisher caught and held in his ●…owne net , and there sitteth downe panting for breath , now this 9 yeares : and your Chaplaine after two yeares , since the booke of the grand sacriledge was printed , falleth most valiantly upon the appendix consisting of a few leaves , leaving the maine treatise untouched ; wherein a Iurie is impanaled of all ages , condemning your Romish Synagoguo of a crime of a high nature , a crimson sinne the robbing Gods people of their Redeemers bloud conteyned as we say mystically , as you believe litterally and properly in the chalice . Every argument in it against you is confirmed by the prime writers of your owne ●…de : every objection of yours against ●…s is solved out of your owne C●…assick divines , who are brought upon the theater like Romane fencers playing their d d p. 〈◊〉 & seq. prizes , and dangerously wounding one the other . Out of compassion to whom , if not for the love of the cause , he should have drawne his weapon if he durst . I have heard from the mouthes of two Romane Priests that that treatise is as a thorne in your eyes : yet your Chaplaine dares not pluck at it for feare of pricking his fingers : but under your relation , tanquam sub Ajacis clypio , under Ajax buckler hides himselfe presently after he hath flung a dart of Calumny at a Conference of mine signed and subscribed by two witnesses , both named by him , and acknowledged to be present at that disputation in Paris , Anno 1612.

PAR. 6.

Of the novelty of Popery , and the true occasion of the Author his conference with D. Smith at Paris .

AFter I have repelled his darts , I will encounter your relation , in both which the Greeke proverbe is verified , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , never a barrell better herring . In his Eras. Adag . introduction , from p. 3. to the 11. hee relates the occasion of this conference , partly defectively , partly injuriously and falsly .

1. His narration is defective , in that he relates , pa 8. That M. Knevet was put in minde that he was mistaken in the matter of Religion , and that before Luther , all knowne Churches did beleeve that which he saw there in France openly professed , but he omitteth what was replied thereunto , that this was a stale allegation confuted a 1000. times by Protestants , he omitteth also what was retorted ( viz. ) that no knowne Church in the world before the late Councell at Trent , which began in the yeare of our Lord , 1545. and ended in the yeare 1563. beleeved those 12. now articles added to the Apostles Creed , a a ●…lla Pij 4 Pontif. anno , 5. A. D. 1564. Haee est catholica fides extra quam nemo saluua essa potest quam in prasenti pr●…or , &c p. 441. by Pius 4. to be de fide and to be assented unto by all men under paine of damnation . That the Primitive Church worshipped no Images , knew no private masses , or halfe communions , or prayers in an unknowne tongue nor Church treasurie of superabundant satisfactions , nor Popes indulgences for the release of soules out of Purgatory , nor any of that drosse which he saw in your Church mingled with the gold of the Sanctuary : that a man would have beene laughed out of his skin , who would in those daies have given any credit to that which he & I both saw in Paris openly professed , and painted too , viz. Saint Denys holding his head in his hand , and our Ladie saying over the Rosarie with a great paire of beades about her necke , Saint Genoviefue Patronesse of Paris , carried in solemne procession about the streets , and publicke supplications made to her for raine , or the host carried in state in the streete under a Canopie , and the people kneeling before it in the dirt , or Christ eating the Paschall Lambe larded after the French fashion , or an Asse kneeling downe to the Sacrament , or Bees building a Chappell and the like legendarie fopperies .

2. It is false and injurious in that he saith , p. 8. that I thought my selfe alone hard enough for the whole Church of Rome , and p. 10. that I presuming of victory made the matter knowne both to the English and to the French . Me thinkes you should have taught your Chaplaine better then to put his dreames in print for my thoughts , and to presume what were my presumptions , neither had I any such thought , ●…either presumed upon any such thing ; for although I know my selfe to be ignorant of many things which I ought to know : yet I dare boldly professe with Origen , Ignorantiam meam non ignoro , I am not ignorant of my ignorance , neither have I beene shie to make so much knowne to all men , in most of my disputations , using this premonition , that if the auditory should not be satisfied in my arguments or answers , that they ought to impute it to the weakenesse of the advocate , not of the cause , and this or the like conclusion , that if they heard any thing that gave them contentment , they were to ascribe it to the goodnesse of the cause which I maintained , which will bee able to defend it selfe not onely against the Popes chaire but also against hell gates .

But I need not wipe off the aspersion of selfe confidence cast upon me , p. 10. he himselfe doth it , p. 12. saying that I called M. Moulines a famous French Preacher to the Conference , whereas it was appointed , that the Conference should bee betwixt us two onely . If I thought my selfe hard enough for the whole Church of Rome , what need I call in Peter Moulines to assist me , against one Doctor onely of the Church of Rome ? Here certainely your Lordships Chaplaine was forgetfull of speciall precept in his art , oportet mendacem esse memorem , he that will v●… lies , and desireth not to be taken in them ought to have a good memory , least 〈◊〉 contradict himselfe , for lies are contrarie , not onely to the truth , but oftentimes to themselves also .

PAR. 7.

Of the Conditions of this Conference , and how they were kept on both sides .

HAving done with your servant for the present , and given him his arrant , I come now to conferre with your selfe , or rather to heare your reference and rehearsall of our Conference , two and twenty yeares agoe , September 4. Whereof I may truly say , as Scaliger doth of Baronius his Annals , ( facit annales non scribit ) he makes Annals or Chronicles , he writes them not : so verily you rather make a new Conference betwixt me and you , then relate the old . For you devise conditions , cast my arguments into a new mould , piece out your owne answers , invert the order , and fairely dissemble those replies that touched you to the quicke , wherefore I intreat the Reader to take notice that the Protestant relation of the Conference printed 1630. was taken out of the authenticall notes of both parties , and confirmed and subscribed by two that were present at the disputation , and confessed to have beene so by your selfe , p. 9. but this narration of yours is penned by your selfe , and published 2●… . yeares after , and hath no attestation at all unto it . Yet because you shall know that I am ready to answer , not onely to all that you did then say , but to all that you can say in the propounded question , I will trace you , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and where you stumble helpe you up .

First , you charge me with the breach of I know not what condition , by making the Conference more publike then it should have beene . The two noters make mention but of three conditions or lawes made by the company , and assented unto by us before wee exchanged any word , which were these . 1. That wee should dispute calmely and peaceably . 2. That all impertinent discourses should bee avoided . 3. That M. Featly at this time should onely oppose , and D. Smith onely answer . The fourth law which you mention concerning the private carriage of this Conference was so privately enacted , that I never heard of it till now , the other three I kept punctually through the whole Conference , but you violated , at the first entrance you had scarce spoken three words before you transgressed the third law , whereat I tooke exception and offence , not because I was affrighted at the very sight of your tenets , as your Chaplaine S. E. would scare his simple Reader , though your Transubstantiation be an ougly Monster , nor for that I was netled at the proposall of your objections against our tenet : for they were but blind nettles , as wee terme them , that sting not at all ; but partly because I could little hope for any faire proceedings from him , who stumbled at the threshold , and brake his owne promise before he infringed any argument of mine , partly and especially , because you brandished your sword furiously against me , when you knew I was engaged by promise , and bound by the law at that time not to use my Buckler . I saw my condition like his in a a Floresta Hispan : l. fac●… . Floresta , who seeing a dog run at him , and stooping downe to take up a stone to fling at him , and finding it so fast in the ground that hee could not moove it , cryed out , A vengeance on this countrie where dogges are let loose and stones are tied . Your tiphenie wherewith you cover this skarre in your reputation from the custome of Oxford ( for the respondent to confirme his Thesis ) is too transparent and netlike . For what was the custome of Oxford in this kinde to us in Paris , who had by joynt consent set downe an other order to be held in this disputation ? Neither did you ( si meminisse jnvat ) at that time insist upon any such Oxford custome , nor intimated so much , that you tooke any degrees of Schooles there : for then I should in the first place have charged you with the Articles of Religion you subscribed unto , and the oathes you tooke at your presentation : to all which you bid adew when you w●… first bound for Rome . — Vent is & verba , & vela dedisti Vola queror reditu verba carere fide . As for the short warning ( where you complaine ) to prepare for th●… meeting , you alleadge it but for fashion For who knoweth not that you were professour many yeares in Spaine , a●… in your written Workes had befo●… this elabourately handled this question Besides , for ought I know you we●… acquainted with the day of our disputation as soone as it was set : this I am sure of , that excepting onely the goodnesse of the cause , you had all advantages of me . First of yeares , for I was but Tyro , you veteranus miles , I the●… but a pusney in these studies , you a Doctor in your facultie , of so loud 〈◊〉 fame that your name rung before this in England , France and Spaine , insomuch , that as you your selfe reported M. Knevet said of me that I was to young to deale with you . Secondly of bookes , for I brought but a few with me to Paris , nor had accesse ( being knowne an opposite to your Religion ) to any of your Libraries . Whereas you besides your owne , had the command of the Librarie of Sorbone , and others in the City and University . Thirdly of assistance , for I was alone and had none to advise withall : you conversed daily with the Sorbone Doctors of your society , the acutest disputants of this age . Yet whatsoever garland now your Chaplaine platteth for you , at that time you were farre from triumphing . For you doubted your owne answers , and like beares whelpes often licked them to bring them to some forme , and when at the end of the Conference I had read them all unto you written from your owne mouth ; a friend of yours snatched the paper away , and never would 〈◊〉 ver it , but in liew thereof you tendered me a paper of answers written with your owne hand , with such additions and limitations , as your after thoughts suggested : in which notwithstanding fairely you yeelded the cause , saying , ego agnosco quod in his verbis , hoc est corpus meum , est figura : that is , I acknowledge that there is a figure in these words , or that these words are to be taken figuratively . If so , then they make no more for the Transubstantiation of Bread into Christs Body , then the like figurative words , I am the doore , I am the vine , I am the way , make for the Transubstantiation of Christs Body or person into a vine doore or way . Wherefore I cannot but commend your ingenuity in choosing that sentence of Saint Austine for your posie in the frontispice of your relation , facile est ut quisque Augustinum vincat , quanto magis ut vicisse videatur , aut si non videatur , vicisse dicatur , it is an easie thing to get the better of Austin , how much more to seeme to get the better , or if not to seeme yet to be so reported , if you neither had the worse , nor seemed to have , nor were reported to have the worst in this Conference , how doth this posie fit your relation , but if either , indeed you were foyled , or in apparance , or at least in report , discordant ultima primis , the first words agree not with the last , that you got the field , and bare away the prize .

PAR. 8.

The state of the question is truly set downe , five points wherein wee differ touching the Reall presence are touched .

THe praeludium is past concerning the occasion and conditions : I come now to the encounter it selfe concerning your Reall presence by Transubstantiation . For which those of your Church contend , tanquam pro aris & focis , and well may you so doe , for it furnisheth your ara and your focus too . a a Iustitut . l. 4. c. 17. quia Satan haue exposit●… veritatem per turbulentos spiratus hodi●… quoque molilius quibuscunque potest calumnijs & probris foedare nec in ullam al●…am rem maiori conatu incumbit accuratius eam tueri & asserere opere pretium est . Calvin truely observeth that Satan by his instruments laboureth nothing more then to suppresse the truth in this point of controversie : and in regard of the infinite Volumes written on both sides . b b Chamierus de Euch. l 10. c. 1. quaestio de reali praesentia est animosissima , prolixissima , intricatissima sed & nobilissima . Chamerus rightly tearmeth it the most intricate and perplexed , as also the most noble question of all other betweene the Romane and the reformed Churches . It much importeth therefore both parties , that 〈◊〉 bee rightly stated and solidly handled that which you say in the explicatio●… of the state of the question is very briefe , much like lightning in t●… night , that rather skareth a man the●… sheweth him the way in the dark●… That which your Chaplaine added is large and cleare enough , but like false fire held out by Pyrats in t●… night to draw Marriners into dange●… You say p. 17. that the Conference 〈◊〉 to be not of Transubstantiation , but of 〈◊〉 Reall presence onely , which by order 〈◊〉 disputation ought to be first . Yet b●… your favour these questions are not 〈◊〉 distinct and severed as you imply , 〈◊〉 rather like the wheeles in c c Ezek 1. 16 And their worke was as it were a wheele in the middest of a wheele . Ezekie●… vision , rota in rota implicite , one in th●… other . You beleeve no Reall prese●… otherwaies then by Transubstantiatio●… your d d Concil. Trid. Sess. 13. c. 1. Doce●… Sancta Synodus in almo Sanctae Eucharistiae Sacramento post panis & vini consecrationem Christum verum Deum atque hominem verè realiter & substantialiter subspecie illarum re●… sensibilium contineri . Councell of Trent in that Ca non wherein it defines your Reall presence involveth Transubstantiation , th●… Synod teacheth that in the Sacrament●… the holy Eucharist , Christ God and M●… is truly really and substantially co●…teined under the forme or accidents 〈◊〉 the sensible creatures of Bread and ●…ine . If the substance of Christs flesh ●…e there under the resemblances or ●…cidents of Bread and Wine , the substance then of Bread and Wine must be gone , and Christ his Body and Blood ●…cceed in the roome of them , and ●…hat's this but a paraphrase of Transubstantiation ? take that away , and we shall soone joyne e e Andre●… Episcopu●… Wint. Resp. ad apolog. Bellar. c. 1. p. 11. Nobis autem vobiscum do obiecto convenit , de modo l●… omnis est , pr●…sentiam credim●… nec minus quam vos ver●…m , de modo praesentiae nil temerè de●…imus , addo nec anxie inquirimu●… . issue with you , for 〈◊〉 agree with you in the object , we differ ●…out the manner , we beleeve as true a ●…esence as you , touching the manner of ●…is presence we define nothing rashly , nor ●…quire curiously no more then in Bap●…sme after what manner Christ his blood ●…asheth us , no more then in the mysterie ●…f the Incarnation how and after what ●…anner the humane nature is united to the divine in one person .

Your Chaplaine S. E. ( that I may repay him backe some of his owne coyne ) p. 23. being conscious of the weakenesse of his cause thought the very sight of our tenet as it appeares in the Protestants relation , p. 288 , 289. would overthrow his utterly , and therfore conceales my distinctions of presence and reall , which are the keyes with severall wards , without whi●… this question cannot be opened : 〈◊〉 as ᶠ Weston writes that his head ak●… in reading D : Reynolds his bookes o●… the Idolatry of the Church of Rom●… . So your crazie Chaplaine , g g Conference by S. E being to tell the state of the question hee puts downe a discourse to make the simple Reader giddie , p. 2●… complaineth that my discourse upo●… the state of the question made his he●… giddie . For a while hee stands amaze like the Goate , after he hath tasted t●… hearbe Eringium , and after when he comes to himselfe , either ignorantly o●… wilfully mistaketh his way . The S●… cramentarians , saith he , for whom D. Featly disputed against our tenet , 〈◊〉 that the Body and Blood of our Savior be not in the Eucharist truly accordi●… to the verity and substance of the thing signified by those names , but that the Eucharist is a signe and figure of them 〈◊〉 For proofe whereof he 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 shreds and snips of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Peter Martyr , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●…ght , Perkins , Zuinglius , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Calvin , taken from your h h Conference of Catholike & Protestant doctrine , c. 10. shop-boord . If it bee no disparagement for him , yet certainely it cannot but be a great blemish in you to understand no better the Doctrine of the Protestants , we impug●…e the Sacramentarians as well as you . ●…our Chaplaine might have learned as ●…uch out of the i i Ancilla Piet●… . p. 83. Hand-Maid to Devotion . Let no hereticall Harpie pluck from thee thy heavenly dish or meate , as Celeno did Aeneas ' s. Beware of two sorts of heretickes especially , which seeke to ●…guile thee in the Sacrament , or rather of it , viz. Sacramentaries . Papists . The one denying the signe , the other the thing signified . The one offereth thee a shadow without the body , the other the ●…ody without the shadow , and consequently neither of them giveth thee the true Sacrament , to whose nature and essence both ●…re requisite . The Sacramentaries 〈◊〉 rob thee of the jewell , the Papists of the casket . As Christ at his Passion was crucified betweene two theeves : so the Sacrament of his Passion is fallen among two theeves likewise , the Sacramentaries who take away the substance of Christ bodie , and you Transubstantiators , who take away the substance of the elements . We take part with neither of you , but endite you both of felonious Sacriledge . But because you are a Bishop in title at least , I referre you to bee instructed in th●… point by a Reverend k k Lancelot Winton : answer to the 18. C. of the first booke of Cardinal Peron . Bishop of o●… Church . It is well knowne saith h●… whither he ( naming there the pri●… patron of the Sacramentarians ) leane●… that to make this point streight he bo●… it too farre the other way , to avoid est i●… the Church of Romes sence , he fell to b●… all for significat and nothing for est 〈◊〉 all , and whatsoever went further th●… significat he tooke to savour of the carnall presence , for which if the Cardin●… mistike him , so doe we . And so , he d●… not well●… against his owne knowledge 〈◊〉 charge his opinion upon us . Neither do you , who if you have read your sel●… the l l Conference of Catholike & Protestant doctrine . C. 10. passages which you cote out o●… Iewell , Cartwright , Martyr , Muscul●… Perkins , Beza , Calvin , &c. and took●… them not up upon trust ; cannot be know that they are meant of the outward element , which is not ind●… Christs Body as Iewel , not properly 〈◊〉 Body as Martyr , not the very Body , a●… Musculus , but onely a signe , as Cartwright , a figure as Beza , or at the most a seale as Perkins is alledged b●… you to call it . None of them affirme that in the Eucharist or holy Sacrame●… ●…selfe an emptie figure or a bare signe ●…exhibited . Let m m Iewel ▪ apolog. c. 138 d x. Pa●… & vinum dicimus esse sacra & 〈◊〉 mysteria corporis & sanguinis Christi & illis Christum ipsum verum panem eternae vitae sic nobis praesentem exhiberi ut eius corpus sanguinemque per sidem verè sumamus &c. 4. d. x. Iewel , n n Calvin I●… stitut . l 4. c. 17. Sect. 19. His absurditatibus sublatis quicquid ad exprimendam veram sub●…antialemque corporis & sanguinis Domini communicationem quae sub sacr●… c●…ne symbolis sidelibus exhibetur , libenter recipio atque ita ut no●… imaginatione du●…xat ac mentis intelligentiâ percipere , sed ut re ipsá fr●… in alimentum vitae eternae i●…telligatur . Sec. 11. dico duabus rebus constare s●…crum caenae mysterium corporeis signis & spirituali veritate quae per symbol●… ipsa figuratur , simul & exhibetur , & Sec. 10. Spiritus verè unit qu●… loci●… dis●…cta sunt , a symboli exhibitione rem ipsam exhibere rite colligim●…s & ●…ccepto corporis symbolo non minus corpus etiam ipsum nobis dari certò con●…imus . Calvin●…d ●…d Perkins speake for the rest . We ●…firme that the Bread and Wine are the holy and heavenly mysteries of the Body and Blood of Christ , and that by them Christ himselfe being the true Bread of ●…ternall life , is so presently given unto us as that by faith we verily receive his Body and Blood . And a little after we abase not the Lords Supper , or teach that it is but a cold ceremony onely , as ●…any falsly slander us , ( you and S. E. for ●…ample ) For we affirme that Christ ●…oth truly and presently give himselfe wholy in his Sacraments , in Baptisme , that we may put him on , and in his Supper , that we may eate him by faith , and spirit , and may have everlasting life by his Crosse and Blood : and we say not that this is done sleightly or coldly , but effectually and truly . Calvin , Taking away these absurdities ( he speaketh of Consubstantiation and Transubstantiation ▪ whatsoever may be said to expresse t●… communication of the true and substantiall Body and Blood of the Lord whi●… are exhibited to the faithfull under t●… holy Symbols of the Supper , I willingly admit , and that in such sort , that the participation may be understood not 〈◊〉 imagination onely , and apprehension 〈◊〉 the minde , but a reall fruition to neur●… the body and soule to eternall life , and againe , I say that the holy mystery of the Supper consists of two things , bodily signes and the spirituall truth , which is both figured and exhibited by the signes . For the Spirit truly uniteth those things which are severed in place . From the exhibition of the signe we rightly , inferre the thing signified by it to be exhibited to us , and when we receive the signe we are confident that we receive the Body it selfe , o o Reformed Catholike 10. point . p. 590. Perkins is as full : we hold and beleeve a presence of Christs Body and Blood in the Sacrament and that no feigned but a true and reall presence .

1. In respect of the signe by Sacramentall relation . 2. In respect of the Communicants to whose beleeving heart he is also really present .

Thus you heare we stand all for a reall presence , and that so universally , that p p Riv●… summa co●… . q. ●…8 . p. 34. Nemo nostrum cred●… eum intelle●…isse tantum sig●… vel solam gratiam , eumque nihil nobis voluisse largi●… aliud , qu●… qua●… verè hic p●…nis qu●…t s●…um corporis Christ●… dona●… corporibus nostris , tam ver●… etiam d●…tur animabus nosiris corpus Christi Andrew Rivet saith peremptorily , none of us beleeveth that Christ giveth unto us onely a signe of his Body , or onely grace , because as truly as the Bread which is the signe of Christs body is given to our bodies so truly is the Body of Christ given unto our soules .

The difference betweene us is about

1. The meanes . 2. The meaning of eating Christ . The meanes We say is by faith q q Artic. 28. Onely after a heavenly and spirituall manner the body of Christ is received , and the meanes whereby it is taken in the Supper , is faith . mystically , You by the mouth and properly . The meaning You say is a carnall . We say is a spirituall manducation .

Desire you a greater light , because it seemes your eyes are dim : thus then conceive of the doctrine of the reformed Churches

1. Christ is said to be present in holy Scriptures foure manner of waies .

1. Divinely . 2. Spiritually . 3. Sacramentally . 4. Carnally or corporally .

According to the first kind or manner , he is present in all r r Ier. 23. 24. Psal. 139. 7. Whether shall I slie from thy presence ? & Amos 9. 2 , 3. places , Can any man hide himselfe in secret places that I shall not see him , saith the Lord , doe not I fill heaven and earth .

According to the second , he is present in the hearts of true s s Ephes 3. 17. beleevers , I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ , that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith .

According to the third , he is present in the Sacrament both mystically or relatively , and t t 1 Cor. 10. 16 , 17. effectually also . The cup of blessing which we blesse , is it not the communion of the blood of Christ ? the bread that we breake , is it not the communion of the body of Christ ? For we being many are one bread and one body : for wee are all partakers of that one bread .

According to the fourth , he was present u u Iohn 1 〈◊〉 in Iudea and the confines , in the daies of his flesh , And the Word was ●…ade flesh and dwelt amongst us , but is Acts 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . now in heaven .

2. As the word presence , so also the word really is diversly taken , sometimes

1. As it is opposed to that which is feigned and imaginarie , and importeth as much as truly . 2. As it is opposed to that which is meerely figurative and barely representative , and importeth as much as effectually . 3. As it is opposed to that which is spirituall , and importeth as much as corporally or materially .

Conclusion the first .

1. We beleeve Christ to be present divinely , and that after a speciall manner at his table , spiritually in the hearts of the Communicants , Sacramentally in the elements : but not corporally , either with them by Consubstantiation , or in the w w Ame●…as Bell. Enervat . Tom. 3. l. 4. c. x p. 95. Corpus Christi substantialiter non continetur in eodem spati●… quo panis & vinum conti●…bantur . place of them by Transubstantiation .

Conclusion the second .

The presence of Christ in the Sacrament is reall in the two former acceptions of reall but not in the last , 〈◊〉 he is x x Calvin l. 4. Institut. c. 17. Sec. 11. Per symbola panis & vini Christus verè nobis exhibetur adeoque corpus & sang●…s eius . truly there present , and y y Iewel Apolog p. 2. c. 14. d. 1. We say not that this is done sleightly or coldly , but effectually and truly . For though we doe not touch the Body of Christ with teeth and mouth , yet wee hold him fast and eate him by faith , by understanding , and by spirit eff●…ctually though not carnally or loc●… And that this is the generall doctrin●… the reformed Churches , and co sequently that all your discourse p. 25 26 , 28 , 47 , 51. and through your who●… booke generally against empty types bare signes , void figures , excluding the verity , is u●…terly void and of none effect and a meere 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and fighti●… with your owne shadow : I proo●… by undeniable and impeachable evidences extant in the booke inti●…uled , Harmony of confessions : and I will compasse you in both with such a cloud 〈◊〉 witnesses that you shall see no way to get out .

The z z Articles of Religion reprinted by ●…s Majestie , speciall command , 〈◊〉 . Artic. 2●… . English as it well deserveth shall have the first place . The Supper of the Lord is not onely a signe of the lov●… that Christians ought to have among themselves one to the other , but rather 〈◊〉 is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christs death , in so much that to such a rightly , worthily , and with faith receive the same , the Bread which we breake is a partaking of the Body of Christ , and likewise the Cup of blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ .

The rest shall follow as they are martialled by the compiler of that worke .

The a a Harmoni●… confess ad Sect. ●…4 . p. 190. Intùs fid●…les oper●… Christs per Spirit●… Sanctura percipiune etiam car●… & san●…nem Domini & pas●…untur his in 〈◊〉 aternam , 〈◊〉 p. 110 , qui ●…oris 〈◊〉 side Sacra mentum percipit , idem ille non signum dun taxat percip●… sed 〈◊〉 ipsâ qu●…s s●…itur . Helvetian . The faithfull receive that which is given them by the Minister of the Lord , and they eate of the Lords Bread , and drinke of the Lords Cup , and at the same time inwardly through the helpe of Christ by the Spirit , they receive the flesh and blood of the Lord ; he that outwardly ( being a true beleever ) receives the Sacrament , he receives not the signe onely , but enjoyeth also the thing signified .

The confession of b b Confess . Basilart●… . 〈◊〉 . In ●…nd Domini cum pane & 〈◊〉 Domini verum corpus & verus sanguis Christi per ●…inistrum 〈◊〉 pr●…figuratur & offertur . Basil. Bread and Wine remaine in the Lords Supper , in which together with the Bread and the Wine , the true Body and Blood of Christ is prefigured and exhibited .

The c c Art. 37 qui ad Sacram mensam 〈◊〉 puram fidem tanquam vas quoddam afferunt , credimus verè recipere 〈◊〉 ibi signa tes●…ficantur , nempe corpus & sanguinem Iesu Christi nominus esse cibum & potum animae quam panis & vinum sunt co●…ris cibus . French . We beleeve that those who bring to the Lords Table pure faith as it were a vessell , doe truly receive that which there the signes testifie , for the Boand Blood of Iesus Christ are no lesse 〈◊〉 meate and drinke of the soule , then br●… and wine are the foode of the body .

The d d Art. 35. Quam verè accipimus & tenemus manibus nostris hoc sacramentum illudque ore comedimus , tam verè etiam nos fide recipere verum corpus & verum sanguinem Christi . Belgicke confession . Chr●… instituted Bread and Wine , earthly a●… visible creatures , for a Sacrament of 〈◊〉 Body and Blood : whereby he testifet●… that as truly as we receive and hold 〈◊〉 our hands this Sacrament , and eat 〈◊〉 with our mouthes , whereby this our life 〈◊〉 maintained ; so truly by faith , which 〈◊〉 as the hand and mouth of the soule , we receive the true Body and Blood of Christ our onely Saviour , in our soules , to holi and nourish spirituall life in them .

The e e Confess . Aug. Art. 10 In caena Domini corpus & sanguis Christi verè adsunt & distribu●…tur 〈◊〉 s●… cum 〈◊〉 & vino v●… exhiben●…r . Augustan . In the Lords Supper the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present and distributed to the Communicants , or as we read in a later edition they are truly exhibited with the brea●… and wine .

The f f S●… . Confess c. 18. Art. 14. Falso ab adversarijs iactatur non nisi merum panè merumque vinum in nosiris caenis administrari . Suevick . The most holy Supper of our Lord is by us most devoutly , and with singular reverence ministred and taken , whereby your sacred Majesty may understand , how falsly our adversaries charge us , that we change Christs words and corrupt them with mans glosses , and that nothing is ministred in our Supper●… but bare bread and meere wine .

By all which it appeares , as how falsly your Lordship and S. E. relate our tenet : so how no lesse blasphemously then slanderously g g 〈◊〉 cont. 〈◊〉 . Noris compareth the Protestants Supper to Heliogabalus his feasts : he should rather have compared your private Masses to them . For as that Emperour invited his servants to a banquet , where he ate all himselfe , and they onely looked on : so you invite the people to your Masse and bid them eate and drinke , rehearsing the words of our Saviour ( Take eate , this is my body , and drinke you all of this , &c. ) yet you eate all and drinke all your selves . As the Priests under the Law among the Jewes had their panes propositionis , their show-bread , which the people ●…ever touched : so you , though under the Gospell , have panem propositionis , shew-bread , and alwaies vinum propositionis , shew-wine , for the people very seldome eate of the bread , but never drink drop of the consecrated cup.

Me thinkes I heare you say , if wee both acknowledge Christs Body and Blood to be thus really present in the Sacrament , as hath beene shewed , how fell we out ? why may we not be good friends ? wherein stand we yet at od●… about this Sacrament and Christs presence there ?

In five points :

First , You teach there remaines n●… the substance of Bread and Wine after consecration : we teach that they remaine .

Secondly , You beleeve that Christs body is contained under the superficies or accidents of bread : and taketh up the roome of the substance of the element , this is no part of our beliefe .

Thirdly , You hold that the host or Sacrament is to be adored cultu latri●… , the worship proper unto God : wee beleeve that though honour and reverence ( which Saint Cyrill and Saint Chrysostome call for ) is due to the Sacrament , and that with all due h h Lancelot Winton : answer to Cardinal Peron . Sect. 4. The Sacrament is with all due respect to be handled and received , but no divine adoration may be used to the symbols . respect and a most humble gesture it ought to be handled and received , yet no divine adoration may be used to it . To yeeld that to any creature is Idolatrie .

Fourthly , You averre that Christs very body is eaten with the mouth : we cannot brooke such a grosse and caper●…aiticall conceit .

Fiftly , You professe ( and I know not whether you beleeve it ) that infidels , yea some of you also , that rats and mice may eate Christs very body : we abhorre that blasphemy . For though it might fall out through some negligence that a rat or a mouse , or who is worse then either , an Insidell may somtimes seize on the Sacramentall bread : yet we say Christs Body and Blood are out of their reach , their unhallowed hands or mouthes cannot come neare it .

PAR. 9.

Twelve passages out of Tertullian against Transubstantiation vindicated , and all objections out of him for the carnall presence answered .

THis was or should have beene the a a S E 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Rodus , our stand , now let us measure the leape , of which you have made seven jumpes . Thus I took my rise . That doctrine which h●… no foundation in the Word of God is repugnant to the doctrine of the true ancient Church , and overthro●… eth the principles of right reason , i●… plying palpable absurdities and apparant contradictions is to be rejected a erroneous and hereticall : but the doctrine of the Church of Rome concerning Christs bodily presence in the Sacrament is such , Ergo it is to bee disclaimed as erroneous and hereticall .

The Major or first proposition had his passe from you , nor can it be impeache●… by any who rightly understandeth the termes , and seriously weigheth the consequence . For divine faith must bee built upon a divine and unmooveable foundation , which can bee no other then Gods Word . And sith we on both sides acknowledge that the Church in which the Primitive Fathers lived and died , was the true Church , they who gaine-say the faith thereof , are to be ranged with hereticks . Lastly , that metaphysicall principle is of undoubted verity , verum vero non opponitur , truth never opposeth truth . That doctrine therefore which destroyeth the principles of reason , and quencheth the sparkles of divine light kindled in our soules by God , cannot but bee from the Prince of darknesse .

The Minor or assumption hath three branches as you see on the first : whereof I insisted in that conference . My prosyllogismes which you and S. E. both omit were these . First , if there bee any ground in Scripture for your carnal presence in the Sacrament , it is either in the words of b b Mat. 〈◊〉 . 26. This is my Body . institution , or on those Iohn the 6. 53. Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood , ye have no life in you . For upon these both the Bishops in that Lateran , and Trent Councell , and all the learned on your side build their faith especially in this point . But neither the one nor the other Text are any sure ground for it , Ergo you have none . The Major in this prosyllogisme being assented unto by you , I proceeded to the confirmation of the Minor in this wise . If the words of institution , Mat. 26. and the other alledged out of Iohn the 6. are to be taken figuratively , and not in the proper sense nothing can be concluded from them for the bodily presence or carnall eating Christ with the mouth . But the words above alleadged in both places are to be construed figuratively , and not in the proper sense , Ergo nothing can bee concluded from them for the bodily p●…esence of Christ in the Sacrament , or carnall eating of him with the mouth . The Major in this second Syllogisme being likewise evident to all men of learning , who know that to argue from a figurative sense to the proper is a fallacy in Logick , and a dangerous errour in Divinity : against which Saint c c Aust. l. 31 de doct. christ c. 5. In principio cavendum est ne figuratam locutionem ad literam accipias , cum enim figuratè dictum sit accipitur tam quam propriè dictum sit , carnaliter sapitur . Austin giveth us a speciall caution , I undertooke the proofe of the Minor both by unavoidable testimonies of antient Fathers , and pregnant argumen●…s drawne from the circumstances of those Texts . And first because with the ancient is wisedome , Iob 12. 12. let the antient speak , Tertullian , Origen , Austin , Prosper , &c. d d Acceptum panem & distributum Discipulis , corpus suum illum fecit , bcc est corpus meum dicendo , id est figura corpo●…is mei , figura autem non fuisset nisi veritatu esset corpus . Tertullian in his fourth book against Martion , the 40. Chapter , the bread taken and distributed to his Disciples hee made his body saying , this is my body , that is a figure of my body . Now a figure it had not or should not have beene , unlesse his body had beene a body of truth or a true body , for avoid or empty thing , such as a phantasme is , is not capable of a reall figure . Tertullian his argument in this 40. Chap. against Marcion , who taught that Christ had no true body but an imaginarie or phantasticall standeth thus .

That body whereof bread is a figure must needs bee a true body .

But the Body of Christ is such a Body whereof bread is a figure , Christ himselfe sa●…ing , when hee tooke bread in his hand , This is my Body , that is a figure of my Body . Therefore Christs Body is a true Body .

If Christ made not bread a figure of his Body , but turned it into his own Body , as you teach , how could Tertullian out of those words of our Saviour , prove against Marcion that bread was a figure of Christs Body ? Againe , if the meaning of the words of institution ( This is my Body ) be , this bread is a figure of my Body as Tertullians id est inforceth , then are the words of the institution metonymically or figuratively to be taken . A faire evidence for the truth is this testimony of Tertullian which so puzzels our adversaries , th●… they turne them every way , yet cann●… avoid or impeach it .

Fisher falls fowle upon this ancie●… Rossens . cont. Oecolamp . and most learned Father , disabling h●… testimonie in regard of his taint o●… Montanisme .

But neither was Tertullian slipt in●… that heresie when hee wrote these bookes , neither did the heresie of Montanisme concerne the Sacrament , neither was ever this passage e e Bellar. de Sacra bucha l. 2. c. 7. Quam●… i●… fuerit Mon tanista in extrema aetate suâ , tamen a nullo veterum Pa●…rum reprehenditur hoc nomine quod ●…rraverit circa Sacramentum Dominici corporis . excepted against by any of the Antients , nor the Father himselfe branded for any errour about the Lords Supper .

Steven Gardiner giveth a more respective answer , that Tertullian spake these words , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in heate of opposition to his adversary , not deliberately and doctrinally .

But he that readeth these bookes against Marcion , which the author so esteemed that he translated them into verse ; will finde in them strength of reason , not violence of passion . These words sparkle not with anger , but give a cleare light to the words of the insti●…tion : and the like are found in him ●…ls where and in other of the Fathers , when they wrote in coolest temper in their Epistles , Commentaries on Scriptures , Homilies , and Treatises of piety , the places are quoted particularly by f f Desentia ad Gardinerum de Euchar●… par●… 1. Ob. 161. Peter Martyr . Verius ergo Et magis ingenuè Peribomius . Well fare honest g g Rhenanus in tract . de Monogam . 〈◊〉 hîc ●…ertulliani error verba sacra●… caenae figuratè exponentis in Berengarij personâ re●…tatus est . Rhenanus who ingeniously confesseth , that Tertullian favoured our figurative interpretation , for which your Church condemned Berengarius .

But you like not so well of this plaine dealing , you have beene better instructed by the Belgick h h Index ex purg . Belgick anno 1571. Cum in catholicis vateribus alijs plurimos seramus errores & extenuemus excogitato commento per saepè negemus & commod●…s ijs sensi●… affi●…gamus cum opponuntur in disputationibus aut in conflictionibus cum adversari●… . inquisitors to devise some shift and faine a commodious sense to the testimonies of the Fathers , and blanch their words with ingenious glosses when they are obj●…cted against you in disputation or conflicts with us . Therfore after i i i A●…tat in Tertul l. cou●… . Marcionem 4. c. 40. ●…otae 662. Pammelius , k k Bel●… de sacrament Eucha l. 2. c. 7. Bellarmine , and l l Perone resp. ad Plesseum . p. 9 0. Perone conster , Tertullian thus : This , which was once an old figure of my body is now my body ; for he doth not referre those words , id est figura corporis mei to corpus meum : but to hoc .

For this your strange forced and incongruous interpretation , you produce first a paralell place to this out of the booke adversus m m Prax. c. 29 Dicendo Christus mortuus , id est unctus . Praxean , Christ is dead that is annointed , where the words id est are referred to the subject ( Christus ) not to the attribute ( Mortuus . ) Secondly out of the words hee made bread his owne body , since say you Tertullian saith , that our Saviour taking bread made it his body , he was not so forgetfull as immediately to add that the Eucharist is a meere figure of his body : this reason you backed with a third , that Tertullian presently after the foresaid words saith , figura autem non fuisset , it had not beene a figure , &c. by which words he shewes that he speaketh of the figure which was before our Saviour said , This is my Body . Lastly , you much insisted upon the words veterem figuram , an old figure , and those that follow in the same place , but why calleth hee bread his body ? and not a Pepon or Melone rather ? which Marcion had in place of a heart , not understanding Or inst●…d of his heart , Cor Christi loco . that it was an old figure of the body of Christ .

Though the water bee never so cleare , it is an easie matter by stirring the bottome with a stick to trouble it , and make it all muddy , stay but a while till it settle , and you shall see the streame run clearely , and the silver w●… seeke for in the bottome bearing the Image of Christs Body . Tertullian here prooves the reality of Christs Body by the reality of the figure thereof bread . Bread he prooves to be the figure of his body , both out of the Gospell of Saint Matthew in the first place , and afterwards out of the Prophecy of Ieremy , where the Jewes conspiring against the Prophet , said , Come let us cast wood on his bread , that is , the crosse on his body . The illightner therefore of antiquities declared sufficiently what hee would have bread then to signifie , calling his body bread . Marke I beseech you , Tertullian sets the Texts of Matthew and Ieremy like glasses , to cast a mutuall light one upon the other . In Ieremy Christs Body is called bread , in Saint Matthew , bread is called his Body , both by a like figure : but I subsume Christs body is not called bread in Ieremy , because it was transsubstantiated into bread as you must needs confesse , therefore neither in Saint Matthew is bread called Christs body , because bread was transubstantiated into it . n n In Dialogo 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Theodoret harpes upon the like strings tuned together , Our Saviour , saith he , changed names and attributed to his body the name of the symbole , or signe thereof , and to the symbole or signe the name of his body , he that called bread his body , calle●… himselfe bread : in both which speeches there is according to both these Fathers , a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 no 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a trope or turning of speech , no Theod. 16. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . change of nature .

The sparkes flie up in the smoake before the fire breakes into a flame , afterwards they vanish away : such your objections appeare to be after the blazing ( if I may so speake ) of Tertullians meaning , by the precedent elucidations of this place .

The first taken out of his booke Object . 1 against Praxeas , thus vanisheth to nothing , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , one swallow makes not a summer , nor one heteroclyt overthrowes a generall rule in grammar . You and your Chaplaine talke of o o 〈◊〉 . 3●… . Neither did he say any thing to the places wherein Tertullian had in like●… sort inverted the order . places in the plurall number , as if such a Transposition were usuall in Tertullian , name you but one other passage in all Tertullian where the like hyperbaton or dislocation is used , Et Phillida solus habeto There is in this passage I grant a Metathesis or transposition of the words , id est unctus , which should have beene placed before mortuus not after : but yet that place of Tertullian is not like Sol 1. this as you interpret it : for there id est must of necessity be referred to the subject Christus , and cannot be referred to the predicate mortuus : because the word mortuus doth not signifie annointed , as Christus doth : but in this place id est may well be referred to the predicatum corpus , as p p Art 13. Cited by S. 〈◊〉 . Ruardus Tapperus , and Gardinerus , and Renanus , and all other Papists referred them , before this new crochet was found out by Pammelius , or Peron . Againe , in those words Christ Sol 2. is dead that is annointed , the sense is made good by a meere inversion thus , Christ that is the annointed is dead , wheras besides an inversion you add the words quod erat vetus : ( non nunc est ) which words if you should add to the other place , saying Christus mortuus est , id est is qui erat unctus est mortuus , you would make the speech blasphemous , insinuating that Christ was the Lords annointed but is not , as you make Tertullian say bread which was a legall figure , but now is not , is Christs body .

But to put this passage of Tertullian Sol. 3. out of all peradventure , the words ( id est ) that is to say , must needs be referred to that tearme in the proposition which was obscure , and needed some explication . But that was not the subject ( hoc ) for Christ by taking the bread in his hand and pointing to it sufficiently , shewed what he meant by ( hoc ) all the doubt that could be made was of the predicate body , what that tearme signified , or in what sort it agreed to the subject ( hoc ) the id est therefore of necessity is to be applied to the obscure predicate ( corpus ) not to the subject ( hoc ) which was then when Christ uttered those words evident ad oculum .

Your second objection melteth of it selfe , since Tertullian ( say you ) affirmes Object . 2 that our Saviour made bread his body , hee was not so forgetfull as immediatly to add , that the Eucharist is a meere figure of his body : neither doe wee Sol. 1. say so , as I have proved at large in the former Paragraph . It was not forgetfullnesse in Tertullian to add this glosse , Sol. 2. id est figura corporis mei , but mindfullnesse and cautelous wisdome maturely to remove a block , at which his Reader was like to stumble . When he had said before corpus suum ipsum fecit , he made bread his body , a man might have thought that he did it so by Consubstantiation , or by Transubstantiation : to prevent which mistakes , hee adds that Christ did it by Sacramentall consecration , saying , This is my Body , that is , a figure of my body .

Your third objection is an idle criticisme , Object . 3 as if there were great difference betweene esset and fuisset , for your Candor , looke but upon Lillie his grammar , Sol. 1. and you shall finde that eram and fueram , and ero and fuero , and essem and fuissem are indifferently used as Synonima . Yet if you will have ( fuisset ) in Sol. 2. these words ( figura autem non fuisset ) not to be rationall , but temporall , nor to construed it should not be , but it had not beene , you must howsoever referre it to that which goeth before , acceptum panem & distributum , not to that which followes sixe lines after , veterem figuram corporis Christi dicentis per Ieremiam , the apparent sence then is , Christ by saying This is my body , made the bread then a figure , or Sacrament of his body , which it had not beene if he had not then , when he spake so , a true body , but onely an imagnarie , as the phantasticall hereticke Marcion surmised .

Your fourth & fift reasons are answered Resp. ad 4. & 5. Object . already . Tertullian as it is evidently deduced from the passage you cote , and another paralell unto it , l. 3. cont. Marcion . c. 19. ( So God hath revealed in the Gospell , calling bread his body , that hence now thou maist understand , that he hath given the figure of bread to his body , whose body the Prophet long before figured in bread ) taught that bread had beene a legall figure , and was also an evangelicall signe or Sacrament of Christs Body . But why Christ made choice rather of bread then of a Melone , as Tertullian speaketh , or any other solid thing to be the Symbole or Sacrament of his body , as also why hee rather chose wine then any other licour to bee the embleme and memoriall of his blood , we can assigne certainely no other reason then his meere will . Tertullian his guesse is but probable , that Christ in the institution of the Sacrament in the formes of bread and wine had an eye to the Prophecy of Ieremy , or Iacob . But I●…r . 11. 1●… . Gen. 49. 〈◊〉 . be it probable or necessary , it matters not , seeing it is confessed on all hands , that bread is a figure of Christs body , though not now a Legall Type , yet an Evangelicall . Being both , it makes the stronger for this glosse of Tertullian , this bread is my body , that is , a figure of P. 44. Object . 6 my body .

But here S. E. helpes you at a dead lift , alleadging a testimony out of q q De resurrect . carnis . c. 8. Caro abluitur ut anima emac●…letur , caro ●…gitur ut anima consecret●…r , caro corpore & sanguine Christi ves●…itur ut & anima do Deo saginetur . Eras. glori●… tur Adag . ut Pelei●…s in Machar●… . Tertullians booke de resurrectione carnis , for the carnall presence of Christ in the Sacrament . The words of Tertullian are these , The flesh is washed that the soule may be cleansed , the flesh feeds upon the body and blood of Christ , that the soule may be fatted by God . Of this place of Tertullian he is as proud as P●…lius in the proverbe was of his sword , not observing that the point of it lyeth against himselfe : for if hee expound these words according to the rule of the Fathers , the signes have usually the names of the thing signified , by them then hee confirmes our figurative interpretation , understanding by the body of Christ the Symbole or signe thereof , upon which our flesh seeds , when we receive the Sacrament : but if he understand the words of Tertullian properly as if our very flesh or stomach turned Christs Body into corporal nourishment , and so really fed upon it to fatten or cheare our soules , he makes Tertullian blaspheme , and hee gives the lie to his Lord your selfe who page 65. in expresse tearmes affirme , that in the Fucharist there is no violence offered to Christ his flesh in it selfe , nor is it eaten to the end our bodies may thereby be nourished . To affirme that the substance of our mortall body is nourished , or increased by the flesh of Christ taken in the Sacrament , is to make the Eucharist cibum ventris non mentis , the foode of the belly , not of the soule , then which grosse conceit nothing can bee more absurd in the judgement of your owne Cardinall r r Bellar l. 2. de Sacra Eucharist . c. 4. Non intelligunt patres cum hoc dicunt Eucharistiâ nutriri vel augeri mortalem substantiam corporis nostri , sic enim facerent Eucharistiam cibum ventru non mentis , quo nihil absurdius fingi potest . Bellarmine . Tertullian disclaimes this carnall fancy in the very words alledged by your Chaplaine , ut anima saginetur , the flesh saith the Father feeds on the Body and Blood of Christ , that the soule may bee fatted , the soule not the body . If hee demand how can the soule bee satisfied or fatted by the bread in the Sacrament , if it bee not turned into Christs Body ? I answer out of the former words of Tertullian , even as the soule is cleansed in Baptisme by washing the body with water , though that water be not turned into Christs blood .

You have heard that s s Ter. de resurrett . carnis . c. 37. ex materia dicti dirigendus est sensu●… nam quia durum & intolerabile existimaverum sermonem eius , quasi verè carnem suam illis edendam determinasset , premisit spiritus est qui vivificat . Arg. 1 ex Tertul. pro Protest . doctr Ioh. 6. 53. Tertullian doth not so much as lispe in your language , heare now how lowd hee speakes in ours . The sense of the word ( saith he ) is to be taken from the matter , for because they thought his speech hard and intolerable ( unlesse ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man , &c. ) as if hee had appointed his flesh truly and in very deed to bee eaten of them , he premised it is the Spirit which quickneth , and a little after , appointing his Word to be the quickner , because his Word is spirit and life , he called the same his flesh , for the Word was made flesh , therefore to be desired with an appetite , to give and maintaine life in us , to be eaten by t t Ter. ib. Devorandus auditu ruminandus intellectu , side digerendus . hearing , to be chewed by understanding , to be digested by beleeving . These words are so plaine , that you cannot mistake the meaning of them , and if you should goe about to draw them to any carnall sense or eating Christ with the mouth , he will checke you in the words following , where he saith , that Christ used an u u Ter ib. Carnem suam panem c●…elestem pronunciarat arguens usque quaque per allegoriam necessariorum pabulorum . Arg. 2 ex Tertul. allegorie in this place : now an allegorie is a figure in which an other thing is to be understood , divers from that which the words import taken in the usuall and proper sense .

Doubtlesse he who held the bread at the Lords Table to be a representation of Christs body , and the wine a memoriall of his blood , beleeved not that the bread was turned into his body , or the wine into his blood : for no picture is the life it selfe , no memoriall is of a thing present but absent .

But w w Ter. advers Marcionem l. 1. c. 14. Nec reprobavit panem Creatoris quo ips●…m corpus suum representat . Tertullian called bread that whereby Christ represented his owne body , taking the word represent in the same sense which Saint x x Ber. Ser. 6. in vigiliâ nat. Dom. Videtur quotidie nascidū fideliter representamus cius nativitatem . Bernar doth . As Christ after a sort is sacrificed every day when we shew forth his death , so he seemeth to be borne whilest we faithfully represent his birth . As the figure , signe , or that whereby any thing is represented or set before the eye , is not the thing it selfe : so neither a monument or a memoriall of our friend is our friend : the wine therefore which y y Ter. l. de anima cap. 17. saporem vini quod 〈◊〉 sanguinis sui memoriam consecravit . Tertullian saith Christ consecrated for a memoriall of his blood , cannot bee his very blood .

The same Father in his booke of the Arg. 3. ex Tertul. flesh of Christ smiled at the heretickes , who imagined Christ to have flesh hard without z z ●…b . de carne Christi . c. 5. Sine ossibu●…duram , sine muscul●…s solidam , sine sanguine cruemam . bones , solid without muscles , bloody without blood , &c. They saith he that fancy such a Christ as this , that deceiveth and deludeth all mens eyes , and senses , and touchings , should not bring him from heaven , but fetch him rather from some jugglers a a Ib●… Ecce fallit & decipi●… omm●… oculos , omn●… sensus , omnium accessus & contactus , ergo iam Christum non de coelo deferre de bueras , sed 〈◊〉 aliquo circula●…orio ca●… . Arg. 4. ex Tertul. box . I trow hee meant not your Popish Pix , yet sure such a flesh it encloseth , hard ( if it bee so ) without bones , solid without muscles , and bloody without blood , for you say Christs blood is there , and sh●…d too , and yet tear me your Masse an unbloody sacrifice . I take you to be so ingenuous that you would not belie your senses , I am sure you will confesse that you see nothing in the pyx but the whitenesse of bread , in the Chalice but the rednesse of wine , no flesh or blood colour in either . You tast nothing but bread in the one , and the sapour of wine in the other , you touch no soft flesh with your hand , nor quarrie blood with your lips , or tongue . But I inferre out of b b Ter. l de amma c. 17. Non licet nobis in dubium sensus istos revocare , ne & in Christo de fide eorum deliberetur , ne fort●… dicatur quod falso Satanam prospectarit de coelo praecipitatum , &c. Tertullian , You must not question the truth of your senses , lest thereby you weaken the sinewes of our faith , lest peradventure the heretickes take advantage thereupon , to say that it was not true that Christ saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven , that it is not true that he heard a voice from heaven , but the sense was deceived . Were not the senses competent judges of their proper objects , even in the case we are now putting , viz. the discerning Christs true body ; Christ would never have c c Luke 24. 39. appealed to them as hee doth . Behold my hands and my feet , that is , I my selfe , handle me and see , for a Spirit hath not flesh and bones as you see me have .

I have given a touch hitherto , but Arg. 〈◊〉 ex Tertul. upon sing●…e testimonies as it were single strings : now in the close , listen to a chord . So Christ hath revealed unto us , calling d d Ter. ad . Iud●…s c. 〈◊〉 . Sic Christus revelavit panem corpus suum ●…ppellans , cuius retro corpus in pane Prophetis siguravit . bread his body , whose body the Prophet prefigured in bread . Christ is our bread , because Christ is our life , and life is our bread , I am , saith he , the bread of life : as also because his body is e e Tum quod corpus 〈◊〉 in pane c●…setur , hoc est corpus me●…m , it aque petendo pa●… quotidimum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in Christ●… 〈◊〉 a corpo●… eius . accounted for bread , taking the bread ( he said ) this is my body , when therefore we pray for our daily bread , we desire to continue in Christ and never to be severed from his body . And against f f Ter. l. 3. c. 19 Pa●…m carpus suum appellans ut hinc eum intelligas corpor●… sui siguram pani dedisse . Et s●…q . l. 4. c 4●… . cont. Marcionem . Cur autem panem corpus suum appellat & non magis peponem , qu●…m Marcion cordis loco habuit , non intelligens veterem fuisse illam siguram corporis Christi . Marcion , So God revealed in your Gospell , calling bread his body . And againe , why doth hee call bread his body , &c. But I assume bread cannot be Christs body in the proper sense ; because disperate substances cannot properly bee predicated one of the other , therefore when Christ spake these words , This is my Body , which Tertullian constantly and perpetually silleth up thus , this bread is my body , he used a Metonymie , called signatum pro signo , or figuratum pro figura , which quite overthroweth your carnall presence , and beateth you out of your strongest fort , the words of Christs holy institution which you would have to be taken according to the letter . Thus you see Tertullian is clearely against you , and you are foyled in the first argument .

PAR. 10.

Thirty three allegations out of S. Austin against Transubstantiation vindicated , and all objections made by the adversarie out of him answered .

SO are you also in the second which you propound amisse . Saint Austin in his third booke , de doctrina Christiana saith that speech of our Saviour , unlesse you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man , Iohn the 6. &c. is figurative , therfore the other , this is my body , is so too , Quem recitas meus est o Fidentine libellus Sed malè dum recitas incipit esse tuus . The argument was mine , but by your mis-reporting it and mis-applying the consequent to the antecedent , you make it yours . Thus I connected this argument to the former : there are two Texts in the Gospell , upon which you relie , either principally , or onely for your carnall presence of Christs body in the Sacrament under the formes of bread and wine . The former , Mat. 26. 26. I have proved out of Tertullian , yeelds your doctrine no support , and you are driven in effect to confesse as much , subscribing with your owne hand , Ego agnosco quod in his verbis ( hoc est corpus meum ) est figura , I acknowledge the words of Institution to be figurative . Now I will prove that in like manner the words of our Saviour , Iohn 6. 53. are to be taken in a figurative and improper sense , and consequently that the proper eating Christs flesh with the mouth , cannot be inferred from them .

For proofe of the antecedent , I produced in the first place a passage out of Saint a a Si autem flagitium 〈◊〉〈◊〉 facinus videtur 〈◊〉 bere , aut utilitatem aut beneficentiam v●…tare figurata est . Nisi manducaveritis carnem filij hominis , & sanguinem biberitis non habelitis vitam 〈◊〉 vobu , facinus vel flaginum videtur i●…bere ; Figura est ergo pracipien●… Passioni Domini esse communicandum , & suaviter atque utiliter recondendum in memoria quod pro nobis caro cius crucifixa , & vulnerata sit . Austins third booke , de doctrinâ Christianâ , cap. 16. But if that Scripture seeme to command a sinne , or an horrible wickednesse , or to forbid any thing that is good and profitable , the speech is figurative : for example , ( when he saith ) unlesse ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood , ye have no life in you , he seemeth to command a sinne or horrible wickednesse ; there is a figure therefore ( in the words ) commanding us to communicate with the Lord his Passion , and sweetly & profitably to lay it up in our memory , That his flesh was crucified and wounded for us . Here said I three things are very remarkeable to the point now in question .

1. That Saint Austin maketh choice of these words of our Saviour , as of a most knowne instance of a figurative speech .

2. That he not onely affirmeth it to be a figurative speech , but confirmeth it also by a strong argument , figura est , Ergo it is therefore a figure .

3. That he sheweth what figure it is , end expoundeth the meaning of our Saviour in this figurative speech , conformably to the doctrine of the Protestants , and contrarie to all Romish glosses upon it .

To this allegation you answered , partly by glancing at Saint Austins argument , partly by glossing upon his conlusion . First said you , it is not a horrible thing to eate mans flesh , unlesse it be eaten in the proper shape , for it appeares in Mumme that mans flesh may be eaten without horrour , when it is not eaten in the proper shape . Secondly , you distinguished of a figurative speech according to the thing eaten , and according to the manner of eating it , and said that the speech of Christ , Iohn 6. according to Saint Austin was figurative , according to the manner of eating , to wit in the proper forme , but that it was proper according to the matter ( viz. ) the substance of Christs flesh .

1. Against your first answer to Saint Austins antecedent , I replie .

1. That whereas you pretend Saint Austin to bee for you , you should not have disabled his argument , but have defended it rather . Now you evidently overthrow it . For if it be not a horrible thing to eate mans flesh , though under an other shape , Saint Austins Ergo therefore , our Saviours speech concerning eating his flesh must needs be figurative , is a plaine non sequitur .

2. Saint b b Cyril ad obiect . Theod. in expos. a●…ath 11. Num hominis comeftionem hoc Sacramentum pronuncias ? Cyril maketh good this argument of Saint Austins , choaking his adversarie with this interrogatorie . Dost thou pronounce the Sacrament to be a man eating , and dost thou irreligiously urge the mindes of the faithfull to grosse and carnall imaginations ? You would have instructed Saint Cyril to have interrogated more warily , dost thou pronounce the Sacrament to be the eating of a man in his proper shape ? Otherwise to eate a man under an other shape ( you would have whispered him in the eare ) is a schoole delicacie , no carnall and grosse imagination .

3. I affirme that it is an horrible thing to eate mans flesh , and drinke his blood though in an other shape ; for it is not the disregard of the countenance of man , or the disfiguring his shape , which makes Anthropophagie or man eating so horrible a sinne : but the making the flesh of one man the food of another , and the belly a sepulcher . This I make appeare by foure instances .

1. Suppose at Rome or Venice on the day of your carnivals , when many murthers are committed by men in disguised habits , that one of the masquers or mummers slaine , should be boyled or rosted , and served in at table , in the habit of a whiffler , or masquer , were it not a horrible wickednesse think you to eate of this mans flesh , his head for example though with a vizard upon it , and so I returne you a mummer for your mumme .

2. If according to Iustins storie , or Ovids fiction , the members of a sonne were baked in a pie , in the likenesse of venison , with the proportion of a Deere printed on the crust , were it not a horrible wickednesse for a Father to eate wittingly of his sonnes flesh , though under another shape .

3. What though a mans body in some fight were so mangled , and battered , that it had lost all humane shape , would you warrant an Indian to eate this mans flesh , or excuse him from an horrible crime if he should eate it , because it was not in propriâ specie ?

4. Did you live among the Lycanthropie , men in the shape of wolves , or meete with witches who delude the senses , and take upon them the shape of a pig , or cunny , or goate , would you preach it for good doctrine , that a man might eate wittingly the flesh of any of these while it remained sub alienâ specie . As ,

For the argument you take not from any topick place , but from the Apothecaries shop , I meane your instance in Mumme , I wish you some better drug of theirs , I meane some strong confection of Helleborum to purge your braine . For our question is not of the medicinall use of mans flesh , altered by art , but whether it be not a finne , and that a horrible one , to eate with the mouth and teeth the flesh of a knowne man , nay of the Sonne of God .

2. Against your second answer to Saint Austins conclusion , I replied

1. That Saint Austin by figura , meant such a figure as excludes the native and proper sense of the words . His words are immediatly going before those I cited , si autem hoc jam propriè sonat nulla putetur figurata locutio , if it bee taken in the proper sense let it bee accounted no figure .

2. Saint Austin speakes of such a speech which can in no wise be taken properly , such a speech , to wit , where a vertue is forbidden , or a vice commanded , and in this very Chapter he instanceth in Romanes the 12. 20. Thou shalt heape coales of fire upon thine enemies head . In which words , because the Apostle seemed to command an evill act , Saint Austin inferres , ne igitur dubitaveris figuratè dictum , Doubt not therefore but that it is spoken by a figure . If a speech commanding a sin , or forbidding a vertue , might be taken in the proper sense , hence it would follow , that it should bee lawfull to sinne , because expressely commanded by God , and sinnefull to exercise some act of piety , or charity because forbidden by him . And here your Lordship touched the second time at Hercules Columna Non plus .

3. Whereas you say that Saint Austin by sigura meant a figure mixt of a sigurative and proper speech , dato & non concesso , supposing for a while that there might be such a figure ; I desire you to observe that Saint Austin speakes here of no such figure , but of a speech meerely figurative . For he declares that the meaning of the figure is , that wee ought to partake of Christs sufferings , and remember his c c Figura praecipiens Passioni Domini esse cōmunicandum & suaviter ae utiliter recondendum in memoriâ quod pro nobis caro cius crucifixa & vulnerata sit . death . Now to compassionate Christ , or to partake with him in his sufferings , or remember his death , is not to eate his flesh in any proper sense at all .

4. Of one simple categoricall proposition , there can bee but one true sense . And this sense cannot be figurative and proper , but either the one , or the other for proper and figurative are proper and improper , borrowed and not borrowed , which cannot bee affirmed de eodem .

I conclude with Saint d d Austin l. 3 do doc. Christ . c. 5. In principio cavendum est ne figuratam locutionem ad literam accipias , ad hoc enim pertiue●… quod ait Apostolus , litera occidit spiritus autem vivificat . Cum enim figuratè dictum sit accipitur tanquam propriè dictum sit , carnaliter sapitur , neque ulla mors animae congruemiùs appellatur . Austin his owne words . The first thing that you must beware is this , that you take not a figurative speech according to the letter , to that belongeth the Apostles admonition , the letter killeth , the spirit quickneth . For when we take that which is flguratively spoken as if it were proporly spoken , it is a carnall sense , neither is any thing more rightly tearmed the death of the soule then it .

Here S. E. puts a great deale of varnish upon a rotten post , he tells us of a mingled colour , and a garment of motley , and distinguisheth of a meere figure , and of a figure which hath the truth joyned with it ; in fine he alleadgeth what Tapper , and Allen , Suarez , Gordon , and Pittigarus have confessed upon the racke of our arguments concerning a figure in the words of the institution .

But one sad shower of raine will wash away all this his varnish .

1. To his demand , Why not a mixt figure , as well as a mixt colour . I answer , because the opposition betwixt colours is inter contrarios terminos , contrarie tearmes which admit a medium , but the opposition betweene figurative and proper , is betweene contradictorie tearmes which admit of no medium . Wherefore although there may bee a mixt colour of white and blacke , and a mixt temper of hot and cold , and a mixt sawce of sweete and sower , and a twilight betweene day and night , because these are mediate contraries : yet there cannot be a mixt element , or a mixt truth , or a mixt figure ; because simple and compound , true and false , proper and figurative ( that is improper ) stand upon flat tearmes of contradiction .

2. His distinction of a figure which is a meere figure , and of a figure which is not a meere figure but hath the verity joyned with it , wherewith hee goes about to soder the bracks and flawes in your leaden discourse , is altogether impertinent . For the question betweene me and you , was of tropes , not of types , of verball figures , not reall : of rhetoricall , such as Metaphors and Metonymies and the like are , not of physicall or naturall figures , if speech be of the latter kinde of figures , I denie not but that such a difference among them may be observed . Some of them are meere figures and representations , as Philips picture or image , some are more , as Alexander , Philip his sonne . Sacraments are according to this acception of figures , not meere figures , nor bare signes , as is shewed at large in the former Paragraph , for they doe not onely signifie , but also really exhibit , and are effectuall meanes to conveigh unto us those spirituall blessings and graces whereof they are signes and symbols . But if the speech bee of figures in words or sentences , such as all grammaticall and rhetoricall figures are , I say that all such figures are meere figures , every Metaphor is a meere Metaphor , every Metonomie a meere Metonomie , every Allegorie a meere Allegorie , every Ironie a meere Ironie , every Solaecisme a meere Solaecisme , neither can any instance bee given to the contrary .

But because S. E. hath felt M. Waferer his feriler for his errour in Rhetoricke , I leave him to con better his Susenbrotus , and I returne to your Lordship , who perswade your selfe that Saint Austin favoureth your carnall presence , because hee saith , Wee receive with faithfull heart l. 〈◊〉 . con . adv●…rs . leg . c. 9. and mouth , the Mediator of God and Man , the Man Christ Iesus giving us In Psal 33. his body to be eaten and his blood to bee drunke ; and againe , he bare himselfe in l. 9. conf. c. 13 his owne hands , when commending his body , he said , This is my Body ; and againe , she onely desired to be remembred at thine Altar , whence she knew the holy host was dispensed , whereby the hand writing against us is cancelled ; and yet Tract. 59. in Iohan. againe , The Disciples and Iudas ate both : they bread the Lord , he the bread of the Lord against the Lord ; and yet againe , Christ suffered Iudas that divell Epsti . 162. and thiefe , to receive amongst the innocent Serm. ad Neophy . hic accipite in pane quod pependit in cruce , hic accipite in calice quod manavit de Christi la●…re . Disciples the price of our redemption ; and lastly , here receive you that in the bread which hung upon the Crosse , here receive you that in the cup which flowed out of Christs side .

To all which allegations , though I might shape one answer out of Saint a a Epist. ad . Bonifacium . Si Sacramenta quandam similitudinem earum rerum quarum Sacramenta sum non haberent , omnino Sacramenta non essent , ex hac autem similitudino plerumque etiam ipsarum rerum nomina accipium . Et quest. S●…p . Levit. 57. Solet res quae significat cius rei nomine quam significat nuncupari , hinc quod dictum est , Petra era ; Christus , &c. I Austins owne words , That in regard of the similitude betweene the signe : and the things signified , it is usuall in Sacramentall speeches , to attribute the name of the thing signified to the signe : So the Lambe is called the Passeover , Circumcision the Covenant , the Rocke Christ , the Bread his Body , and the Wine his Blood and price of our Redemption . With this one brush reached unto me by Saint Austin , I might whiten all the walls you point unto : yet partly out of respect to your selfe , but especially to S. Austin , I will take speciall notice of every place and passage above mentioned .

Your first allegation is like a leaden Rep. ad 1. sword , it boweth either way ; for as you bow it towards you by urging that Saint Austin must needs speake of corporall and proper eating , because he addeth the words with the mouth : so I may as easily bow it the contrarie way by arguing that he must needs speake of spirituall eating , because he addeth with a faithfull heart . As the mouth cannot receive Christ spiritually , so neither can the heart receive Christ corporally . Saint Austin therefore as hee speakes there of a double organ , the heart and the mouth ' ; so he speaketh also of a double eating , Spiritually and Sacramentally , and the meaning of the whole sentence is this , we receive with a faithfull heart spiritually , and with the mouth Sacramentally , the Body and Blood of the Mediator betwixt God and Man , the Man Christ Jesus .

Your second allegation is like Sir Rep. ad 〈◊〉 Philip Sidneys emblem which was the word hope , written in large golden characters , but dasht through with a pen . When Saint Austin uttered these words , a man may be carried in another mans hands , but no man is carried in his * * S. Aug. Ser. 33. de v●…rb Dom. Panem quem Dominus gestavit in manibus . It was not then his very body , but the Sacrament thereof which he carried in his hands . own hands : we finde not how it can be understood of David , but we finde how it may bee understood of Christ , for hee carried his Body in his owne hands , when he said , This is my body : hee gave you great hope that he was strong for your carnall presence , but when b b Convio . 2. in Psal. 33. Accepit in manus suas quod norunt fideles , & ipse se portabat quodammodo . cum diceret hoc est corpus meum . afterwards resuming his former words , he thus glosseth upon them , when hee commended his Body and Blood hee tooke into his hands that which the faithfull know , and hee carried himselfe after a sort when he said , This is my Body . He dasheth all your hope , for hee expoundeth quodammodo as Gratian teacheth you out of his 23. Ep. ad Bonifac . non rei veritate , sed significante mysterio , not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mystery , de 3. consect . dist. 2.

Your third allegation hurteth us not Rep. ad 3. at all , for wee acknowledge both as Altar and an Host in the Fathers sense●… to wit , mysticall or representative , in memory of that one most proper Host and sacrifice offered once for all upon the Crosse for the crossing of the hand writing against us , though we cannot allow of your Masse , Altar and Host , wherein Christ existing on earth , and covered with the formes of Bread and Wine , is said in his very substance by you , not Saint Austin to be offered up to God his Father .

Your fourth allegation out of the 59. tract upon Iohn , is like Dido her Rep. ad 4. sword , wherewith shee ran her selfe Rep. ad 4. through , Non hos quaesitum munus in usus For if the other Apostles who brought Faith and Repentance with them , received bread , the Lord , but Judas who brought neither , received panem Domini onely , not panem Dominum , not bread which was the Lord , two things hereupon necessarily ensue . First , that none can receive Christ the Lord , or panem Dominum without faith . Secondly , that bread is not turned into Christs body , for then Iudas could not receive panem Domini , but hee must needs have riceived panem Dominum .

Your fift allegation out of the 162. Epist. of Saint Austin is already answered , Rep , ad 5. that Saint Austin called the wine which Iudas received , Christs blood and the price of our redemption ; because it was the Sacrament thereof , so he expoundeth himselfe in the words following , a a Sacramentum corporis & sanguinis sui ipso non exclus●… comr●…uniter omnibus dedit . Rep. ad 6. Hee gave the Sacrament of his Body and Blood in common to all his Disciples , not excluding Judas .

Your sixt and last allegation is like a piece of coyne , full weight , but of counterfeit mettall : the Sermon ad Neophytos is not Saint Austins as your Parisians note , neither are there in it any such words as you quote .

By this time you perceive that your few allegations out of Saint Austin are partly forged , partly forced , and yet come not home to your carnall presence by Transubstantiation , whereas on the contrarie , the testimonies we produce out of Saint Austine are very many , and those most undoubted , free , cleare , and pregnant , for the doctrine of our b b Artic. of Religion . 28. Church concerning the body of Christ given taken and eaten in the Supper onely after an heavenly and spirituall manner , by faith , I reduce them all to sixe heads .

1. The conveniencie betweene the Sacraments of the Old and New Testament . 2. The difference betweene the signe and the thing signified . 3. The figurative sense of Christs words . 4. The true Communicants at Christs Table . 5. The necessary dependance of accidents on their subjects . 6. The limitation of Christs humane bodie to one place at once .

Touching the first .

If the Fathers under the ( viz. ) ●…he conveniencie betweene the Sacraments of the Old and New Testaments . Law , and wee under the Gospell in the Sacrament , receive the same thing in truth , and substance ; it followeth that we receive not Christs flesh with the mouth after a carnall manner , but onely by faith after a spirituall : for before Christs Incarnation , the Fathers could no otherwise receive it .

But the Fathers under the Law in their Sacraments , and wee under the Gospell in ours receive the same thing in truth and substance , as Saint a a De utilitate penit , Eundem cibum spiritualem manducaverunt , quid est eundem nisi quod eum quem etiam nos . Austin teacheth , they did eate the same spirituall meate . What is the same ? the selfe same with us . And in his 26 b b In signi●… diversa sunt sed in requae significatur paria sunt : audi Apostolum , omnes eandem escam spiritalem manducaverunt , spiritalem uti●… eandem , nam corporalem alter an●… . Treatise upon the 6. of Saint Iohn , Manna signified this bread , their Sacraments and ours were divers in the signes ; but equall in the thing signified : heare the Apostle , I would not ( saith he ) have you ignorant how that all our Fathers were under the cloud , and al●… passed through the Sea , an●… did all eate the same spirituall meate ; Marke the sa●… spirituall meate . For the●… ate not the same corpor●… meate , they ate Mann●… we eate another thing ; b●… they ate the same spiritu●… meate which we eate , and they all dranke the same spirituall drinke , they c c Aliud illi , aliud no●…sed specie visibili , quod tamen hoc idem significare●… virtu●… spiritals . dranke one thing , and wee another , according to outward appearance or in visible forme , which yet signified the selfe same thing in spirituall vertue . How did they drinke the same spirituall drinke ? He telleth , they dranke of the spirituall Rocke which followed them , which Rocke was Christ .

Ergo according to Saint Austin wee eate not Christs flesh in the Sacrament with the mouth , after a carnall manner , but onely by faith after a spirituall .

Touching the second .

No signe , Sacrament , figure , or memoriall of Christs ( viz. ) The difference betweene the signe and the thing signified . body and blood is his very body and blood : for signum & signatum , the signe , and the thing signified , the type and the truth are relatively opposed ; and therefore no more can the one be the other , then the Father bee the Sonne , or the Master the Servant , or the Prince the Subject , or the Husband the Wife ; in so much that Saint a a Chrys. Homil. gen. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Chrysostome concludeth , that Melchizedeck could not be a Type of Christ if all things incident to the truth , that is , Christ himselfe , were found in him . And Saint b b Austin de consecrat . dist. 2. cap. Hoc . est . Austin apparantly distinguisheth betweene Sacramentum and rem Sacramenti , and affirmeth that every signe signifieth something els then it selfe . And that it is a miserable c c De doct. Chris. l. 3. c. 5. Miserabilis animae servitus est signa pro rebus accipere servitude of the soule to tak●… c Con. Maximin . l. 2. c. 22 Sacramenta quoniam signa sunt rer●…m aliud ex●…stant , a●…iud significant . the signes for the thing themselves . For the signe of truths are one thing 〈◊〉 themselves , and signifie an●…ther . They are visib●… d d August . de Catech●… . rudibus . Si●…nacula visi bili●… sed re●… invisibiles in ijs honorantur . Seales but things invisible are honoured in them .

But that which we take at the Lords Table is a e e Aug●…n Psal 98. Sacramentum aliquod ●…obis comm●… davi spiritualiter intellectum vt visicab●… vos . Mystery , a f f Detrin l. 3. c 4 Pos●…t tamen significando praedicare D●…minum Iesum Christum aliter per 〈◊〉 guam suam aliter per Epistolam , aliter per Sacramentum corpor●… 〈◊〉 sanguinis eius . Sacrament , a g g Contra Adimantum c. 12. Non dubitavit dicere Hoc est corpus m●… vid. in fr. cum daret signum corporis sui . Signe , a h h Aug in Psal. 3. Eum ( Iudam ) adhibuit ad convivi●…m in quo cor poris & sanguinis sui figuram Discipulis commendavit & tradid●… . Figure , a i i Contra Faust. l. 20. c. 21. Garo Domini promissa fuit nobis in 〈◊〉 Testamento in similitudine victimarum , in cr●…cere ipsa suit exhibit●… , ●…s Sacramento autem celebratur per memoriam . Memoriall of Christs Body and Blood .

Ergo that which wee receive in the Lords Supper , is not the very Body and Blood of Christ after your sense .

Touching the third .

If the words which our ( viz. ) The sig●…e sense of Christs w●… . Saviour spake concerning the eating of his flesh , and drinking his blood , recorded by the foure Evangelists , and Saint Paul , are to be taken Sacramentally , Spiritually and Figuratively , and not in the proper sense which the letter carrieth , nothing can be from them concluded for the eating the very flesh of Christ with the mouth , for so to eate the flesh of Christ , is to eate it corporally , not Sacramentally , carnally , not spiritually ; properly , not figuratively ▪ wheras to believe in Christs Incarnation , to bee partaker of the benefits of his Passion , to abide in him , and to be preserved in body and soule to eternal life ( which are the interpretations Saint Austin giveth ) is not to eate Christ flesh properly , but onely in an allegoricall sense .

But the words which our Saviour spake concerning the eating of his flesh , in the judgement of Sai●… Austin , are to bee taken Sacramentally , Spiritually ▪ and figuratively . For the words which our Saviour spake of this argument , are either the words of the institution related by the three Evangelists , and Saint Paul ; or they are set downe by Saint Iohn , Chap. 6. The former Saint Austin affirmeth to b●… 〈◊〉 sp●…lly●…d ●…d Sacramentally , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 booke against 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 12 and in his Commentary upon the 98. Psalme , and in his 23. Epist. to Boniface , and in his 33. Sermon upon the words of ou●… Lord : the latter he expoundeth in like sort figurative●…y , in his 3. book de doct. Christi , c. 16. in his 2. Sermon of the words of the Apostle , and in his 33. Sermon de verbis Dom. And in his 25. and 26. Tractats upon Saint Iohn . All these passages are wel knowne to the Learned , and although you cast a mist before some of them , yet it will easily bee dispelled , and the beames of truth in this holy Fathers Writings discover themselves so clearely , that they will dazle all your eyes . What words can be more conspicuous then those of this a a Austin c●…nt . Adim●… c. 12. Dominus non dubita●… it dicere , Hoc est corpus meum cum daret signum corporis sui . Father . I coul●… interpret that precept of not eating blood figuratively , understanding by blood that which it figureth , for our Lord doubted not to say , This is my Body , when hee gave the signe of his body . Here the antecedents possem dicere I might say the precept is figurative He made no scruple to say , This is my body , when hee gave the signe thereof . hoc praeceptum in figurâ positum esse , and the words non dubitavit , clearely demonstrate Saint Austins meaning to bee : that though it might seeme harsh to call the bread which is a signe of Christs body , his body , as the blood of a beast slaine the soule , yet by a figure Christ made no scruple so to tearme it . Doubtlesse the blood of any beast slaine is neither properly the soule of that beast , nor a signe of a soule present in it : no more by Saint Austins comparing ( these Texts together ) is bread Christs body , nor a signe of his body present in it , but onely a Sacrament and memoriall thereof . The next passage is as b b In Psal. 98. Spiritaliter intelligite quod loc●…us sum : non hoc cor ▪ pus quod videtis man du●…aturi est is , & bibit●…ri illum s●…guinem quem s●…suri sunt q●… me crucisige●…t , Sacramenti●… 〈◊〉 quod ●…obis commen●… 〈◊〉 spirit●…ter int●…ctum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . cleare . You are not to eate that body which you see , nor to drinke that blood which they will shed who crucifie me , I have commended unto you a certaine Sacrament ( or mystery ) which being spiritually understood will quicken you . And although it ought to be celebrated visibly , yet it oug●…t to be understood invisib●… . Put the parts of the sentence together , and the meaning of the whole will be evidently this , that which you are to eate , and drinke , is not my very body which you now see , and the Jewes shall pierce , and crucifie but a visible Sacrament thereof . Which yet received with faith in my bloody death , through the power of the Spirit shall quicken you . If there could bee any obscurity in this passage it is cleared in the c c Epist. 23. ad Bonif. Sicut ergo secundum quendam modum Sacramentum corporis Christi , corp●…s Christi est , Sacrament●… sanguinis Christi , sanguis Christi est , ita Sacramentum fidei ●…des est , si enim Sacramenta quan●…am similitudinem earum rerum quarum Sacramenta sunt non haberent , omnino Sacramenta non essent . next . When Easter is neare ( saith he ) we say tomorrow or the day following Christ suffered , whereas hee suffered but once , and that many yeares agoe : so wee say on the Lords day , this day the Lor●… rose , whereas many yeare●… are past since hee rose , why is no man so foolish as 〈◊〉 charge us with a lie in s●… speaking , but because we●… call these daies according 〈◊〉 the similitude of those daies in which these things were done , and say th●…s is such a day , which is not that day , but in the revolution of time is like unto it , and that is said to be done that day , by reason of the celebration or mysterie of the Sacrament , which was not done that day but long before . Was not Christ once offered in himselfe ? and yet in the Sacrament he is not onely offered at Easter , but every day , neither doth he lie who being asked shall answer that he is offered . For if Sacraments had not a resemblance of those things whereof they are Sacraments , they should not bee Sacraments at all . Now in regard of this resemblance , for the most part they take the name of the things themselves . As therefore the Sacrament of Christs body after a sort is Christs body , the Sacrament of his blood is his blood : so the Sacrament of faith ( hee meanes there Baptsime ) is faith . But I assume Good-Friday last past was not the very day of Christs Passion , nor the last Lords day , the day of his Resurrection , nor the celebration of the Sacrament the very offering of Christ on the Crosse , nor Baptisme the very habit or doctrine of faith , but so tearmed onely by a figure , to wit , a Metonymie , therefore neither is that of which Christ said , This is my Body , his body in propriety of speech ; but onely so tearmed by a figure , because it is the Sacrament , and resemblance of his body . For all these speeches Saint Austin in this Epistle makes to bee like . I know not what can be more plaine , except the words of the same a a Serm. 33. de verbis Dom. caenam manibus suis ●…onsecratam Discipulis dedit , sed nos 〈◊〉 illo convivio non discubiamus , & tamen ip●…m caenam 〈◊〉 quotidie ●…anducamus Father , Christ gave the Supper , consecrated with his own hands to his Disciples , wee sate not together with him in that banquet , and yet we eate daily the selfe same Supper by faith . Eating by faith is not eating by the mouth , for faith is of things Heb. 11. 1. not seene , what wee eate with the mouth , is seene . You have heard what Saint Austin conceived of the words of the institution , and that his judgement was the same of the words of Christ , Iohn the 6. It appeares by these passages b b Tract. 250 in Chap. 6. Iohn . Vs quid paras deutum & ventrem 〈◊〉 crede & manducasti . ensuing . Why dost thou prepare thy teeth and thy bellie , beleeve and thou hast eaten . To c c Tract 26. in Iohn . Qu●… manducat carnem meam , & bibit ●…cum sang●…mem in me manet : hoc est ergo manducare illam escam . & illum bibere potum , in Christo man●…e , & illuns man●…tem in se habere . ibid. Qui manducat intus non soris , qui maducat in corde , non qui premit dentibus . eate the flesh of Christ and drinke his blood , is to abide in Christ , and to have Christ abiding in himselfe ; and againe , Christ speaketh of him who eates inwardly , not outwardly , he that feeds on him in the heart , not hee which presseth him with his teeth . Prepare not therefore ( saith hee ) thy d d Ser●… . 33. de ver. D●…m . Noli parare fauces sed cor , inde commendata est ista cana , ecce credimus in Christum quem side ●…ccipimus . chops but thy heart . I omit the testimonie out of the third booke de doct. Christ . c. 16. figura est ergo , &c. because it hath beene before fully discussed and I conclude out of all these joynt allegations , like many starres i●… the same constellation .

Ergo the words which our Saviour spake concerning the eating of his fles●… in the words of the institution , and in the 6. of Ioh●… conclude nothing for the eating the very flesh o●… Christ corporally with the mouth .

Touching the fourth .

If none are true Communicants ( viz ) The true Communicants at Christs Table . at the Lord Table but true beleeve●… certainely the Bread and Wine are not turned into the very body and blood of Christ . Were they so ▪ wicked men , hypocrites , and reprobates , who are sometimes present at the Lords Table , and receive the sacred Symboles with their mouth , must needs also eate Christs very body ; unlesse our Adversaries will feigne a second Transubstantiation of Christs body backe againe into bread , as soone as ever a wicked hand , lip , or tooth toucheth it : which as yet no Papist hath beene so hardie as once to opine . For then they know wee will come upon them with a new demand , by what operatorie words of Christ is this second Transubstantiation wrought ?

But none are true Communicants at the Lords Table , or eate his very body but beleevers , who are also members of his body , in Saint a a Aug. 〈◊〉 Civis . Dei . l. 21. c , 25. Non dicendum est e●… manducare corpus Christi qui non est in corpore Christi , & soli Catholici qui non solum Sacramento sed 〈◊〉 ipsâ manducaver●… corpus Christi , in ipso scilicet ●…ius corpore constit●…i . Austins judgement , They are onely Catholickes and such who are set , or incorporated into Christs body : who eate his body , not Sacramentally only , but in truth . For wee must not say that hee eates Christs body who is not in his body . The wicked are in no sort to be said to eate Christs body , because they are not members of his body , Christ himselfe when he saith , he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , abideth in me and I in him , thereby sheweth , what is truly and not b b Ostendit quid sit non Sacramento tenus sed re verâ corpus Christi manducare . Sacramentally onely to eate Christs body and drinke his blood , and that no man eateth his body or drinketh his blood that abideth not in Christ , and Christ in him . And againe he saith , he that c c In Sent ▪ 139. Qui discordat a Christo nec carnem ejus manducat nec sanguinem bibit , etiamsi tantae rei Sacramentum ad iudicium suae praesumptionis quotidiè indifferentur accipiat . disagreeth from Christ , neither eateth his flesh nor drinketh his blood , though to his owne condemnation , for his presumption he daily receive ind●…tly the Sacrament of so great a thing . Hee beates againe upon the d d De verb. Aposb Ser. 〈◊〉 . Illud bibere quid est nisi viv●… manduca v●…am , bibe ●…isam , habebis ●…itam : 〈◊〉 autem ho●… eri●… id est vita ●…nicuique er●… corpus & sanguis Christi , si quod i●… Sacrament●… visibilitar 〈◊〉 , in ipsâ verita●… spiritalite●… manduc●… spiritaliter bibatur . same point , To eate Christs body is to bee refreshed , and so to bee refreshed , that it never faileth whence thou art refreshed , to drinke that ( Christs blood ) what is it but to live ? eate life , drinke life , and thou shalt have life : but then , or upon this condition the Body and Blood of Christ shall bee life to every one , if that which is eaten visibly in the Sacrament , be spiritually eaten and drunke in the truth it selfe . And the e e Tract. 26. in Ioh. Hui●… rei Sacramentum id est unitatis corporis & sang●…inis Christi de mens●… dominicâ sismitur quibusdam ad vitam quibusdam ad exitium , res verò ipsa cujus Sacramentum est omni homini ad vitam , nulli ad exitium qui cunque erit ejus particeps fuerit . ibid. Per hoc qui non manet in Christo , & in quo non manet Christus procul dubio non manducat spiritaliter carnem eius , nec bibit eius sanguinem , licet carnaliter , & visi●… liter premat dentibus Sacramentum corporis & sanguinis Christi . Sacrament hereof that is of the unity of Christs Body and Blood is taken at the Lords Table , by some to life , by others to destruction , but the thing it selfe whereof it is a Sacrament , ( that 〈◊〉 Christs body ) is received by every one to life , and by none to destruction , whosoever is partaker thereof . For after Christ had said , he that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life , hee presently addeth , and I will raise him up at the last day . And a little after hee expoundeth what it is to eate his body and drinke his blood , Saying , he that eates my flesh and drinkes my blood , abides 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and I in him ; this is therefore to eate that fle●… and drinke that drinke for a man to abide in Christ , and to have Christ abiding 〈◊〉 him : and consequently , 〈◊〉 that abideth not in Christ nor Christ in him , withot doubt doth not eate his flesh , nor drinke his blood spiritually , though carnally and visibly with his teeth he crusheth the Sacrament of Christs body . I forbeare to presse here our allegation out of the 59. Tract upon Iohn , concerning Iudas eating panem Domini , and not panem Dominum , ( the bread of the Lord , not bread the Lord ) because I have retorted it before upon S. E. and out of all these places I conclude .

Ergo the Bread and Wine according to Saint Austin , after consecration are not the very body and blood of Christ . The Syllogisme which hath beene proposed at large , with frequent testimonies out of Saint Austin to confirme the Assumption , may bee thus contracted .

No wicked men , or reprobates eate Christs body . Some wicked men and reprobates eate the bread after the consecration , Ergo the bread after the consecration is not Christs body .

Touching the fist . ( viz. ) The necessary dependence of accidents in their subiects

Whosoever holdeth the doctrine of Transubstantiation beleeveth that accidents may subsist without their subjects . For Transubstantiation as your Church defineth , is a mutation or turning of the whole substance of bread into the whole substance of Christs body , and the whole substance of the wine into the substance of Christs blood , the accidents of bread and wine still remaining ( viz. ) The whitenesse , thicknesse , roundnesse , and tast of the bread , the thinnesse , moysture , colour , and relish of the wine with the quantity of both . Their owne subject being gone , where sticke or inhere these accidents ? in the ayre ? or Christs bodie ? you cannot say either . For every accidentall forme denominateth the subject in which it is inherent , according to that axiome of Logick , quicquid in est in dicitur de . But neither Christ his body , nor the ayre is denominated by these accidents ; neither the ayre nor Christs body hath the colour , quantity , figure , or tast of bread or wine . Neither the ayre , nor Christs body is white or round like a wafer , &c. It remaineth therefore that according to your tenet that these accidents remaine in no subject .

But Saint a a Aug●… . de d●…m catig . 〈◊〉 est in sub●…ie in quod in a●…ro est , non 〈◊〉 pars quedum , neque sine eo in quo in●… potest unq●…m esse & post , 〈◊〉 est in subiec●… quod sine subjecto esse non potest . Austin beleeved not that accidents can subfist without their subjects . For hee defineth an accident to be that which is in a subject , not as a part thereof neither can it ever bee without the subject : he b b Epist. 57. Si moles ipsa corporis quantacunque vel qua●…tulacunque sit penitus auf●…ratur , qualitates esus 〈◊〉 erit , ubi 〈◊〉 expressely affirmeth , if the quantity or bulke of a body , be it bigger or lesser , be taken away , the qualities cannot have any subsistence . And in his c c l. 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 13. 〈◊〉 in subiecto est 〈◊〉 sub●… iect●… epsum non manet , manere non potest , & cui posse fieri videatur , ut id quod in subjecto est maneat ipso intereunte subjecto ▪ monstrosum enim & a veritase alienissimum est ut id quod non esset nisi in ipso esset , etiam cum ip sum non fueris poss●… esse . Soliloquies hee hooteth at the contrary assertion as most absurd and monstrous . Who would deeme it possible ( saith hee ) that that which is in a subject should remaine when the subject is taken away ? it is a monstrous thing , and most repugnant to reason , that that which hath no being but in a subject , should yet be when the subject is not . That which you adore as a miracle , Saint Austin blesseth himselfe from as from a monster , and indeed it is a monstrous thing , and prodigious to heare of quantity and nothing big , or litle : of whitenesse in the Sacrament , and nothing white , thicknesse , and nothing thicke ; rednesse and nothing red ; moisture , and nothing moist : it goeth beyond all the fictions in Ovid his Metamorphosis , to turne accidents into substance , and substance into accidents : to talke of meere accidents broken , eaten , digested and voided : to tell us of accidents putrified , and growing finwood , and mouldie and breeding vermine : of accidents frozen and congealed : nay of accidents not onely subsisting by themselves , but also supporting substance , as when dirt stickes to the Sacrament through negligence , it having fallen to the ground ; or when poyson hath beene put into it , wherewith d d 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 ●…ip . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 Ignat us 〈◊〉 compe●… . hist. Uictor the third , and Henry the fourth of Luxenburg tooke their baine . It will not serve your turne here to flie to a miracle as e e Eras adag. Homer . nube . Homer when he is at a stand doth to a cloud . For S. f f De Trinit. l. 3. c. 10. Honorem tanquam religiosa possunt habere , stuporem tanquam mira non possunt . As holy things the Sacraments are to be reverenced , not to bee wondered at as things miraculous . Austin ex professo denies the Sacraments to be miraculous . The Sacraments which are knowne of men , and administred by men , may have reverence as holy things , not admiration : we cannot bee astonished at them , as at miracles . But your doctrine of Transubstantiation cannot be maintained without more miracles , then there are letters in the words of consecration , from whence I conclude ,

Ergo Saint Austin beleeved not the doctrine of Transubstantiation .

Touching the sixt .

Whosoever teacheth ( viz. ) The limitation of Christs humane body to one place at once . that Christs body is confined to a certaine place , and there is after the manner of other bodies with distinction of parts , overthroweth the doctrine of Transubstantiation . For your doctrine of Transubstantiation putteth Christs body upon a Million of Altars at once , and teacheth that it is whole in the whole , and whole in every part of the host being there as invisible , so also indivisible .

But Saint Austin teacheth that Christs body is confined to one place at once ; and is there after the manner of other bodies , with distinction of parts , or as the Logitians speake , parte extra partem . First in generall hee layes downe this a a l. de praedic , quant , lacus circundat quodcunque corpus . rule ; place compasseth every body , and b b Epist. ad Volusia . Quantumcunque sit corpus sive quam tulumcunque corpuscul●… loci occupas spatiis cundemque locum sic implet 〈◊〉 nulla ejus parte ●…t 〈◊〉〈◊〉 how great or small soever a body be , it takes up some space of place : and so fills that place that it is whole in no one part of it . And take away saith hee the spaces of places from bodies , and they will bee no where , and because they will bee no where , they will not bee at all : and in the same c c Ibid. loca suis molibus tenent ut distantibus spat ijs simul esse non possunt . Epistle , bodies so possesse places with their bulke , that they cannot be●… together in distant spaces And d d Nam ita distantibus partibus , quae simul esse non possunt quoniam suae quaeque spatia locorum tenent mineres minora , & maiora maiores , no●… potest esse in singulis quibusque partibus tota vel tanta : sed amplior est quantitas in amplioribus partibus , brevior in brevioribus , & in nulla parte tanta quanta per torum because the severa parts of them hold severa spaces of places , the lesse parts lesser , and the greate greater , it cannot be who●… in each part : but there is larger quantity in large parts , and a shorter in t●… shorter , and in no part is th●… quantity so great as it through the whole . An in particular concerning Christs body he affirmeth that the condition of a tr●… body requireth , that sin●… his Ascention it be placed is some e e Ibid. Vbique torum praesentem esse non dubites tanquam Deum , & in loco aliquo coeli propter veri corporis modum . certaine place of th●… heaven , and that one one●… at once . Till the end of th●… world , the Lord is above and yet his truth is here wi●… us , for our Lords body in which hee rose from the dead must be in one f f Aug. citat , a Grat de co secrat . dist. 〈◊〉 c. 1 quidem Corpus eni●… Domini in quo resurrexit in 〈◊〉 loco esse oportet , ●…ritas autem eius ubique diffusa est . place , his truth is every where . The g g Aust. in Evangel. Iohn . Tract . 50. Patoperes semper habebitis cobiscum , me autem non semper habebitis , accipiunt & hoc boni , sed non sint solliciti , loquebatu●… enim de praesentia corporis siti . N●… secundu●… maiostatem , si●… , secundu●… providentiam , secundum ineffabilem & invisibilem gratiaus impletur quod ab eo dictum est , ecce ego vobiscum sum usque in consummationem seculi . Christus etiam absens praesens est : abi●… & hic est : & redijt & no●… non deseruit , corpus enim suum intulit c●… , maiestatem non abstulit mundo . poore you have alwaies with you , but me you shall not have alwaies : Let good men receive this saying without feare . For he spake this of the presence of his body . For according to his providence , according to his unspeakeable and visible grace , that is fulfilled which was spoken by him , Behold I am with you to the end of the world . Christ being absent yet is present , he is gone , and yet hee is here , he is returned , and yet hath not forsaken us , for his body hee hath brought into heaven , his Majesty he hath not taken from the world .

Neither will your common answer hold water , that Christs bodie naturally is but in one place , yet by miracle it may be , and is in so many thousand places at once , as the Sacrament is celebrated : for 1. Wee Excep. 1. ought not to argue from the power of God to his will , but on the contrarie , from his will to his power , whatsoever hee will doe he can doe : but hee can doe many things which hee never will . Proove that hee will put his body in a 1000 places at once , and we will never contest with you about his power . 2. I before 2. shewed you out of Saint Austin , that the Sacraments are to be reverenced as holy things , not to be admired as strange and marvellous : signes they are of grace , which are properly called mysteries ; not signa potentiae , which are properly called miracles . The effect indeed of this Sacrament in the soules of the faithfull , as also of the other is supernaturall : yet as the Water in Baptisme is not by miracle turned into Christs blood : 3. so neither is the bread in the Lords Supper by miracle turned into his body . 3. Saint Austin in this 50. Tract upon Iohn , useth an argument like to that of the Angell , Mat. 286. He is not here for hee is risen , Christ h h Idem secundum carnem quam verbum assumpsit , &c. non semper habebitis vobiscum , quare , quia secundu●… corporis praesentiam quadraginta doebas conversatua est cum Discipulis suis & ijs deducentibus ascendit in coelum & non est hic . according to his flesh is not now with us , because hee is ascended into heaven , which reason , if it hath any force at all , must imply and presuppose that Christs body at the same time could not bee in heaven , and upon earth . 4. This Father in his 20 booke against i i l. 20. c. 11. secundum praesentia●… corporalem simul & in sole & l●…â & cruce esse non possit . Faustus the Maniches , concludeth not onely that Christs body was not in more places at once , but that it could not bee . The Dilemma there he useth against them is this . When you Manichees beleeve that Christ was at once in the Sunne , the Moone and the Crosse , whether meane you according to his spirituall presence as God , or according to his corporall presence as man : if you speake of his spirituall presence , according to that hee could not suffer those things ; if of his corporall presence , according to it he could not be at once in the Sunne , in the Moone and in the Crosse. Certainely if in Saint Austins judgement Christs Body could not be in three places at once , it can much lesse bee in three millions of places where Masses are said at the same houre , I conclude therefore this argument and this Chapter .

Ergo Saint Austin overthroweth your carnall presence of Christ in the Sacrament by Transubstautiation .

PAR. II.

Twelve testimonies out of Origen against Transubstantiation vindicated , and all objections out of him answered .

THe next ancient Doctor I claimed at the Conference for the doctrine of the reformed Churches , concerning the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , was a a Orig in Lev. Hom. 〈◊〉 . p. 141. S●… secundum literam sequaris hee iy●…m quod dictum est nisi manducaveritis carnem meam & bibe●…itis sanguinem 〈◊〉 occidit hee litera . Origen , who in his seventh Homilie upon Leviticus , repeating those words of our Saviour , unlesse ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood , ye have no life in you , saith of them , if ye follow the letter , that letter killeth . To this allegation you answer ; That Origen speakes according to the capernaiticall letter , that is , according to the literall sense wherein the Capernaits did understand those words , who as Saint b b In Psal. 4. & 98. &c. 6. Iohn . Austin and c c De caena Dom. Cyprian say , thought our Saviour would have cut off some pieces from his body and given them to eate , or that they were to eate it boyled or rosted .

But 1. You should have observed that Origen saith not , if you follow the Rep. 1. conceits of the Capernaits , but if you follow the letter of Christ , that is the sense , which the letter of his words carrie . Now there is never a word , letter , or sillable in Christs speech , which signifieth , or importeth boyling or rosting , cutting or mangling . These are but accidents to the eating of flesh , flesh may bee eaten , and that in the most proper acception of the phrase , though it be neither boyled , or rosted , nor mangled . Whosoever takes flesh raw , or rosted , whole or cut , into his mouth , cheweth it with his teeth , and after conveigheth it into his stomacke : truely and properly eateth that flesh . Thus you doe in the Sacrament , if Pope Nicolas prescribe not a wrong forme of recantation to Berengarius , yet extant in your Canon Law : I d d Grat. de consecrat . dist. 3. Ego Berengarius credo corpus Domini sonsual●…ter 〈◊〉 in veritate manibus sacerdotis tractars , frangi & fidelium dentibus atteri . Berengarius doe beleeve the body of our Lord Iesus Christ to bee sensually or sensibly and in truth handled by the hands of the Priest , broken and champt or torne in peeces by the teeth of the faithfull .

2. You should have cast backe your eye to the precedent words of Origen , which make it evidently appeare , that he listened not to your Iewes harpe , nor tooke the tune from the Cap●…naits straine : but that his meaning was , that we ought to take the words of our Saviour in a spirituall and figurative sense , and not in the carnall and proper . For having related the words of those Jewes in Saint Iohn , how shall this man give us his flesh to eate ? hee turneth to his Christian auditors , saying , But you if you are Children of the Church , if you are instructed in the mysteries of the Gospell , if the Word which was made flesh dwell among you , acknowledge these things to be true which we say , because they are the words of the Lord . Acknowledge that there are e e Ib. agnoscite , quia figurae sunt quae in divinis voluminibus scriptae sunt , & ideo tanquam spirituales & non tanquam carnales , examinate & intelligito quae dicuntur , si enim quasi carnales ista suscipitis laedant vos & non alunt , est enim & in Evangelio littera quae occidit . figures in the Scriptures , and examine and understand those things that are spoken as spirituall men not as carnall , for if you take these things as carnall , they will hurt you and not nourish you : for there is a letter that killeth in the Gospell as well as in the Law , there is a letter in the Gospell which killeth him that understandeth it not spiritually , and then follow the words above alleaged . For if thou follow the letter in these words , unlesse ye eate my flesh and drinke my blood , the letter killeth .

Thus having freed this passage , I might proceed to the examination of your next Section , yet 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , as before I have done in Tertullian and Saint Austin , so I will now cleare other places in this Fathers Workes , and proove him to be a thorough man for us every where . I will follow the order of his bookes in the edition at Basil , that you may speedily with a wet finger turne to every cotation .

First , cast I pray you a looke to his ninth f f Hom. 9. in Lev. Non haereas in sanguine carnis , sed disce potius sanguinem verbi , & audi ipsum tibi dicentem , hic sanguis mens est qui pro vobu effunditur in remissionem peccatorum . Homilie ; Thou who art come to Christ the true Priest , who by his blood hath reconciled thee to his Father , sticke not in the blood of the flesh , but learne rather the blood of the Word , and heare him saying to thee , This is my blood which is shed for you for the remission of sinnes . He who is instructed in the mystery of the Sacraments , knoweth both the flesh and blood of the Word of God . You who presse the letter and urge the carnall eating of the flesh of Christ with the mouth , sticke in the blood of the flesh , but we who feede on Christ by faith , receive the blood of the Word , and eate the flesh and blood of the Word of God in our heart according to Origens wholesome advise .

Secondly , in his 16 Homily upon g g Bibere dicimur sanguinem Christi nonsolum Sacra●…●…ritu , sed & cum sermones eius 〈◊〉 pi●…us in quibus vita consistit . Numbers , there is a passage paralell to this , Who can eate flesh and drinke blood ? he answereth , the Christian people , the faithfull heare these words , and embrace them , unlesse ye eate my flesh and drinke my blood ye have no life in you , because my flesh is meate indeed , He that spake this was wounded for our sinnes , and we are said to drinke his blood , not onely in the rite of the Sacrament , ( when we drinke of the consecrated cup ) but also when we receive his sayings , in which life consisteth , as himselfe saith , I. b. quis est iste populus qui in usu habet sanguinem bibe●…e , populus fidelis , populus Christianus audit has , complectit eum qui dicit nisi manducaveritis carnem filij hominis . the words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and life , and a little after hee concludeth , thou therefore art the true people of Israel , which knowest how to eate the flesh and drinke the blood of the Word of God . In this passage , with one blow he cuts off both your carnall manducation , and your halfe communion , the people as you heare drinke of the blood of Christ both in the Sacrament and out of it , but how ? with the mouth ? nay but by faith , therefore he saith , not that all Christian people drinke it , but populus fidelis , the people that hath faith in his words , and by receiving his sayings drinke his blood , both at the communion and at other times in hearing and reading the Word .

Thirdly , he is constant in this his figurative and spirituall interpretation of the words of our Saviour in the 6. of Iohn , for in his 23 Homilie upon the booke of h h Hom. in Num. c. 28. Hom. 23. Iudaei carnali sensu comedunt carnis Agni , nos autem comedamus carnem verbi Dei , ipse en●…m dixit nisi comederitis carnes meas non hab●…bitis vitam in vobis , hoc quod modo loqu mur carne●… sunt 〈◊〉 Dei . Numbers , he harpeth upon the same string , Christ our Passeoveris offered for us , let the Iewes in a carnall sense eate the flesh of a Lambe , but let us eate the flesh of the Word of God , for he saith unlesse ye eate my flesh ye have no life in you , this that 〈◊〉 now speake is the flesh of the Word of God . If you can eate words with your mouth , and chew them with your teeth , you may in Origens judgemen eate the flesh of Christ with your mouth : but if you cannot do that , then according to our English proverbiall speech , eate your owne words , and retract your grosse and carnall assertion .

Fourthly , I presse you with a most materiall and considerable passage in i i In Mat. c. 15. Ille cibu●… q●… sanctificatur per verbism Dei perque obsecrationem , juxta id quod habet materiale in ventrem abit , & in secessum eijcitur , caeterum iuxta precationem quae ills accessit Prop●…ne fidei fit utilis , efficiens ut perspicax siat animus spect●… ad id 〈◊〉 ●…ile est : nec mat●…a panis , sed super illum dictus 〈◊〉 est 〈◊〉 prode●… non indignè Domino comedenti illum . E●… h●…c qui●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉 symbolicoque corpo●…e Multa porro & de ipso verb●… 〈◊〉 q●…d factum est c●…ro verusque cibu●… qu●…m qui cum ede●…it 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in aeternum quem nullus malus potest edere . Origen concerning the matter of bread , which he calleth the typicall and symbolicall body of Christ , and saith , it goeth into the bellie and is cast out in the draught ; but for Christ himselfe , and his flesh , he saith , that it is the true meate , which whosoever eates shall live for ever , which no wicked man can eate . I am sure wicked men can and doe eate of the bread after consecration : it is not then in Origens judgement Christs flesh . I pray also resolve me what is that S. Origen calls the matter of bread which he tearmes Christs typicall and symbolicall body , and saith it goeth into the belly , &c. you dare not say Christs body . For it is blasphemy in the highest degree , to say that his glorified body passeth through the guts and is cast out into the draught : Substance of bread you say there is none , and to call accidents a body and the matter or materiall part of bread , is as absurd in speech as it is in sense , that a man can void tasts , and colours , and figures without substance .

Fiftly , I alleadge against you in the same Commentarie upon Saint Matthew , his interpretation of the words of the k k In Mat. Tract . 35. Edite , ●…oc est corpus meum , panis iste quem Deus verbum corpus suum esse fatetur , verbum est nutritorium animarum , & potus iste quem Deus verbum sanguinem suu●… fatetur verbum est ●…tans & ●…nebrians ●…orda biben●…um . institution , which can no way stand with your doctrine of Transubstantiation , Take eate saith he , This is my body , the bread which God the Word saith to be his body , is the Word which nourisheth the soule , the Word which proceeds from Gods mouth by which man liveth , bread , the heavenly bread which is set upon that Table , of which it is written . Thou hast prepared a table before me . And the drinke which God the Word calls his blood , is the Word making glad the hearts of the drinkers . Marke I beseech you , hee saith that Christ calleth bread his body , which he could not but by a trope or figure , sith bread and his body are substantiae disparatae , substances of divers kinds , which cannot in truth and propriety of speech one be called the other . Secondly , hee saith that this bread is the foode of soules , and this drinke refresheth and maketh glad the hearts of them that drinke : it is the foode of soules , not bodies , and the drinke of the heart , not of the mouth , if wee beleeve this Father .

Sixtly , I retort your owne allegation against you , out of the fift l l In divers , loc. Evangal . Hom 5 ▪ Intrat & nunc Domi●… sub ●…ectum credemium dupl●…ci figur●… ve●…more , &c. Homily . The Lord ( saith hee ) even now comes under the roofe of Beleevers two manner of waies : The one when thou entertainest into thy house the Governours or Pastours of the Church , for by them the Lord enters into thy house , and by them thou becommest his Host. The other manner is , when thou takest that holy and uncorrupted banquet , when thou dost enjoy the bread and cup of life , eatest and drinkest the body and blood of our Lord , then our Lord doth enter under thy roofe , wherefore humbling thy selfe imitate the Centurion , and say , Lord I am not worthy that thou come under my roofe . Observe I pray you as before , that the faithfull enjoy the cup of life as well as the bread , whereof you utterly deprive them , and that by roofe hee meanes the heart which entertaines Christ , not the mouth . That which S. E. addeth ( suppose the soule bee wicked , this Author saith Christ goeth In ) he adds of his owne , Origen saith no such thing , that Christ e●…ters into the soule or heart of a wicked man , but all that he saith is this , where hee enters in unworthily , he enters in to the condemnation of him that receives , that is , where the party unworthily eates of that bread , and drinkes of that cup : for in that bread Christ entereth in his typicall and symbolicall body , as hee calls it before , not in his true and naturall , which hee proved unto us there , no wicked man can eate .

Seventhly , I conclude this Section with a testimony out of the last booke of m m De Christ . Hom dial . 3. Si ut obloquuntur isti carne destitutus erat & exanguis , cuiusmodi carnis , cujus corporis & qualis tandem sanguinis signa & magines ●…anem & ●…oculum mi●…istravit ? ●…ussitque per ●…a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 re●…ovate . Origen , If as these men cavill or upbraid us Christ was destitute of flesh , and without blood , of what flesh , of what body , and of what blood did be administer the bread and the cup as signes and images , commanding his Disciples by them to renew the memory of himselfe . Heare you how briefe he speakes , how fully in the language of the reformed Churches , bread and the cup are not the very body and blood of Christ by Transubstantiation , but signes , images , and memorialls thereof by representation . And if now you are cast as your conscience will tell you , you are by severall verdicts of Origen , thanke your selfe who would needs referre the matter to him among others , and bee tried by the bench of antiquity , whereby you are clearely overthrowne as you will be in your owne Court by your owne feed judge Gratian , your great Canonist , of whom in the next Paragraph .

PAR. 12.

Eighteene places out of Gratian ( the Father of the Canonists ) against Transubstantiation vindicated , and objections out of him answered .

GRatian de consecratione distinctione , 2. capite , hoc est quod dicimus , saith , as the a a Sicut ergo coelestis panis qui Christi caro est , suo modo vocatur corpus Christi , cum revera sit Sacramentum corporis Christi , illius viz. quod visibile , quod palpabile , mortale in cruc●… positum est , vocaturque ipsa immolatio carnis quae sacerdotis manibus fit , Christi Passio , mors , crucifixio non r●…i veritate sed significante mysterio : sic Sacramentum fidei ( quod Boptismus intellignur ) fides est . heavenly bread which is Christs flesh , is after a sort called the body of Christ , wh●…n as in truth it is the Sacrament of the body of Christ , I meane of that which being visible , palpable , mortall , was put upon the Crosse , and that immolation of the flesh which is done by the hands of the Priest , is called the Passion , death and crucifixion , not in the verity of the thing , but in a signifying mystery : so the Sacrament of faith ( Baptisme ) is faith . The b b Coeleste Sacramentum quod verè representat Christi carnem dicitur corpus Christi , sed impropriè , unde dicitur suo modo sed non rei veritate , sed significante mysterio , ut sit sensus vocatur Christi corpus , idest significatur . glosse addeth the heavenly Sacrament which truly doth represent the flesh of Christ , is called the body of Christ but improperly ; wherefore it is said in a sort but not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mysterie . This testimony of Gratian is like a great torch throughly lightened , which a strong blast of winde bloweth not out , but maketh it blaze the brighter . Three puffes you and your Chaplaine have at it . First , you say Gratian is no authenticall Author with you , much lesse the glosse . Secondly , you say his words are meant of the accidents which are a Sacrament onely of Christs body . Thirdly , your Chaplaine addeth , that the flesh of Christ on the Altar is a Sacrament of Christs visible and palpable body upon the Crosse , you say the lesse to the purpose by saying so much , and your answers interfere on the other . For if Gratian bee no authenticall Author with you , why doc you straine your wits to make his words reach home to the truth ? why doe you contradict one the other to make Gratian agree to himselfe ? the truth is , you have a Woulfe by the eares , you can neither safely hold him , nor let him goe . For if you reject Gratians authoritie , all the Canonists like so many Hornets will bee about your eares : if you admit him , you loose your cause , for then you must confesse , that after consecration , that which remaineth on the Altar is not indeed Christs body , but a Sacrament thereof , whcih is no otherwise called Christs body , then your oblation in the Masse is called the crucifying of Christ , and that I am sure you will say and sweare too is not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mystery . To examine your answers severally .

First , you impeach Gratians credit , telling us , that with you he is no authenticall Author : What you meane by authenticall I know not , a classicall Author sure he is with you , who preferre him before Dionisius , Exiguus , Isidorus , Cresconius , Burchardus , Ivo , and all other compilers of antient decrees , and reade him publikely in your c c Bellar. de Scriptor . Ecelesiast ad annum 1140 Ipse solus obtinuit u●… publicè in Gymnasijs praelegeretur & multorum doctissimorum virorum Commentarijs illustrareu●… . Schooles . What esteeme Aristotle is in with Phylosophers , Hypocrates with Physitians , Euclides with Geometricians , Iohannes de sacro Bosco with Astronomers , Ptolomey with Cosmographers , Peter Lumbard with Schoole Divines , Iustinian with civill Lawyers , the same in Gratian with Canonists . And if before he were not an authenticall Author with you , yet since the yeare 1580. in which by the authority of Gregory the fourteenth , hee was revised and purged , he must needs bee authenticall with you . Howsoever it stands with Gratian ( because it may be your Dioces of Chalcedon is not governed by the Canon Law ) this testimony out of him is as a threefold cable , which though you and your Chaplaine tugg never so hard at , you will never bee able to breake , for Gratian quoteth this out of the Sentences of Saint Austin , gathered by his Schollar Saint Prosper . Gratian is but the relater and approver , S. Prosper or rather Vid. titulum decret. Aug. in lib. Sentet . Prosper . Saint Austin is the Author thereof , and is not Saint Austin with you an authenticall Author ?

Secondly , upon better advise you admit of the authority of this testimony , and shape a kinde of answer unto it , that when Gratian out of Saint Austin denies the bread to be Christs body , he meaneth the accidents of bread , which are Sacramentum tantum , the Sacrament onely , and not in truth the body of Christ . This answer cannot stand : for the accidents of bread are not panis , much lesse coelestis panis , heavenly bread , or coeleste Sacramentum , a heavenly Sacrament , and lest of all Christs flesh , therefore the former words cannot bee meant of the accidents , but of the consecrated host . What S. E. adds to piece out your answer , that the accidents may be so called in regard of their reference to our Saviours bodie which they cover ; which reference is founded upon an heavenly action , to wit , consecration , is unworthy the refutation , for he beg●… that which hee ought to proove , that the accidents of bread cover our Saviours body : this wee denie , and I have disproved it in the former Section . Besides , he seemeth to be ignorant of your Church tenet , which is , that the words of consecration worke upon the substance of bread , and turne it into Christs body not upon the accidents .

Thirdly , the last answer which you or your Chaplaine give , is worst of all , ( viz. ) that the body of Christ on the Altar is a Sacrament of Christs visible and palpable body which hung on the Crosse for this is not onely an absurd and senselesse , but also an hereticall and blasphemous solution . 'T is absurd to make the same body num●…ro to be a Sacrament of it selfe , t is all one as to say that the disease is the symptome of it selfe , or the Ivy bush is a signe of it selfe , or the face is the picture of it selfe , or the substance is the shadow of it selfe . A Sacrament as your Schooles out of Saint Austin define , is a visible signe of an invisible grace , how then I pray you can the flesh of Christ in the Sacrament ( which you teach to bee covered under the forme of bread and so to bee invisible ) bee a Sacrament of the visible flesh of Christ on the Crosse , visible things may bee signes and Sacraments of invisible , but it is a thing impossible , that an invisible thing should bee the Sacramentall signe of a visible . I would forgive your Chaplaine the absurdity and senselesnesse of his answer , if there were not implied heresie in it against the fundamentall Article of our Creed .

'T is flat heresie to affirme that Christ had more then one individuall humane bodie : but if the body of Christ really and substantially and carnally present on the Altar , is a Sacrament of his owne body , then on the Crosse , or now at the right hand of his Father , then hee must have two bodies , one visible and palpable on the Crosse , when hee suffered , and now in heaven , and an other at this very instant invisible , insensible , and impalpable on the Altar .

Thus having made good our fort in Gratian , I might passe to the next Section : yet because your Armour-bearer S. E. will not yeeld us this fort , but having produced some passages out of Gratian , and the Glosse against us leaveth it to the Reader to judge with P. 119 , 120. what conscience I cited them for our opinion . I will out of this one distinction in Gratian , produce so many pregnant testimonies for us , that any indifferent Reader will marvell with what face you can denie him to bee ours . For the Glosse which you reject with such scorne , all that I will say shall bee this , that although he lived in times of thickest darkenesse , even in the midnight of Popery : yet hee saw a glimmering of the truth in this point , as appeareth by his note upon cap. ego Berengarius , unlesse saith he thou dost understand the words of Berengarius in a good and sound or wholesome sense , ( in which according to a forme prescribed him by Pope Nicolas , hee confesseth Christs body to bee eaten in the Sacrament with the mouth & torne with the a a Nisi sa●… intellig●… verb●… Berengarij in maiore●… i●…cidis heraes●… quam ips●… habuit . teeth ) thou wilt fall into a worse heresie then his . And upon cap. b b Coeleste Sacr●… qu●…d est in Altari impropriè dicitur corpus Christi , sicu●… Baptismus impropri●… dicitur side●… . hoc est , The heavenly Sacrament which is upon the Altar , is improperly said to bee Christs body . And upon cap. utrum sub c c Christu●… fas vorare dentibus no●… est distinctione , ego Berengarius contr●… sed i●…i hyperbol●…è locu●… est & veritatem excessit figura , It is unlawfull to devoure Christ with the teeth , so saith Gratian here , but a little above in the Chapter beginning , I Berengarius , the contrary is affirmed , but there he speaketh hyperbolically and exceedeth the truth : I grant you that in his notes upon some other Chapters hee seemeth to favour your Transubstantiation , and contradict himselfe , and so appeareth like the Glossae dissectae , though in a farre 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . other sense divided from himselfe .

But as for Gratian on whose Text he Commenteth , who lived in times not altogether so corrupt , hee saw the truth of this point concerning the spirituall eating of Christ in the Sacrament by faith , and not with the mouth so clearely , ac si solis radio descripta esset , as if it had beene described before him with a beame of the Sunne . For to let passe the cap. per acta , in which by a decree of d d Peract●… consecratione o●…nes communicent qui noluerint Ecclesiasticis carere liminibus . Calixtus , he cashiereth your private Masses . And the cap. e e Divisio unius & eiusdem mysterij sine grandi sacrilegio non potest perve●…ire . Comperimus , in which by a decree of Pope Gelasius , he brandeth your halfe communion with the crime of Grandsacriledge .

1. In the Chapter Tribus , Pope Clemens gives charge to the Priest , Deacon , and Minister , to keepe with feare and trembling the reliques of the fragments of Christs body , what meaneth he I pray you by fragments , hee cannot meane the fragments of accidents , for accidents have no fragments or reliques , neither can hee meane any broken parts of Christs very body , for himselfe teacheth out of Austin . c. f f Nec quand●… manducamus par●…es de ipso ●…us . qui , that when wee eate we make not parts of Christs body , but receive it integerrimè , most intirely , c. g g Omnes aequ●…liter corpus Christi integerr●… 〈◊〉 . Quid sit : It remaines therefore , that by fragments , reliques , or remaines , hee understandeth broken pieces of bread , and if so , the substance of bread remaineth in the judgement of Pope Clemens , not onely after the consecration but also after the Communion . Cum ad reverendii Altare cibis spiritualibus satiandus ascendis , sacr●… Dei tui corpu●… & sangui●… side respice , mente conti●…ge , cordis man●… susci●… & maxim●… totum ha●…stu interioris hominis assume .

2. In the Chapter Quia corpus , hee alleadgeth out of Eusebius Emissenus , these words , When thou goest up to the dreadfull or venerable Altar , to bee satisfied with spirituall meates by faith , regard , honour , and admire the holy body and blood of thy God , touch it in thy mind , take it with the hand of thy heart , drink it by the draught of the inward man . What need hee to have said , looke upon him with the eye of faith , touch him with thy minde , and with the hand of thy heart , and draught of the inward man , but to Vt quid p●… ras de●… & 〈◊〉〈◊〉 , crede & m●…ducasti , qui credit in au●… manducat 〈◊〉 . ( Vid. ) capu●… cred●…re . Credere in Christum hoc est manducar●… p●… vivum . exclude your carnall eating and drinking him with the hand and mouth of the outward man .

3. In the Chapter Vt Quid out of Saint Austins booke , de remedio penitentiae , hee quoteth these words , Why dost thou prepare thy tooth and thy belly ? beleeve and thou hast eaten , he that beleeveth in him eateth him : if the tooth and bellie have nothing to doe in eating Christs flesh , how doe you affirme that he is eaten with the mouth .

4. In the Chapter prima quidem out Vide supra in P. 11. of Saint Austin his Comment upon the fourth Psalme , he repeateth those two testimonies which before I produced in Paragraph the eleaventh . The first is a strong evidence against the carnall interpretation of Christs words , the latter against the supposed existence of Christs body in more places at once . The former is this , spiritually understand what I have spoken , you shall not eate this body which you see , nor drinke that blood which they who crucifie mee shall shed ; I have commended a kinde of Sacrament or mystery unto you , which being spiritually understood will quicken you . The latter is , the body of Christ in which he rose must bee in one place , his truth or divinity is every where .

5. In the Chapter Non , he mentioneth Non iste panis est qui vadit in corpus , sed panis vitae ●…rnae qui ●…imae sub●…antiam 〈◊〉 . out of Saint Ambrose , a sentence which directly excludes your eating Christ with the mouth , it is not this bread which goeth into the body , but the bread of eternall life which supporteth the substance of the soule .

6. In the Chapter Qui manducat hee expoundeth out of S. Austin , the phrase of eating and drinking Christ after this manner , he that eateth and drinketh Christ , eateth & drinketh life , to h h Ill●… 〈◊〉 ●…re ●…st resici , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 est ●…vere , quod 〈◊〉 Sacr●… visibiliter 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 eate him is to be fed or refreshed , to drinke him is to live , that which is visibly taken in the Sacrament , is in the truth spiritually eaten and drunke , if in the truth hee is eaten spiritually , hen not corporally or orally , for a Spirit hath no flesh and bones , and consequently no mouth and teeth . In the same Chapter hee addeth , that which is i i . seene and our eyes tell us is bread and the cup , but that which faith being to be instructed requireth is the bread , is Christs body , the cup is his blood , but bread can no way bee Christs body properly as I have demonstrated before , Austin therefore and Gratian stand for a trope or figure in the words of the institution .

7. In the Chapter Qui discordat Qui discord●… 〈◊〉 non manducat carne●… eius nec 〈◊〉 sanguin●… eius . out of the same Austin , hee debarres all wicked men from tasting the heavenly food of Christs flesh . He who disagreeth ( saith he ) from Christ , eateth not his flesh , nor drinketh his blood , though he daily receive the Sacrament of so great a thing to his condemnation and perdition . But he who is at distance with Christ , may and doth sometime eate of that which is in the Pix after consecration : it is not therefore the flesh of Christ which no wicked tooth or mouth can touch , but the Sacrament thereof onely which is set on your Altar .

8. In the Chapter Panis est & cap. Revera , hee diggeth much ore out of Saint Ambrose his bookes de Sacramentis , whereof I will trie a little at this present . If there bee such force in the word of the Lord Iesu that thereby that began to be which was not before , how much more operatorie or effectuall is it , that things k k c. panis . ut sint quae eran●… & in ●…iuà commu●…ur . may be what they were and yet turned into an other thing , that they may bee what they were in substance , and changed into another thing in significancie and supernaturall efficacie . Christ saith , This is my l l C. revera . ante benedictionem alia species nominatur , post consecrationem corpus signatur . body , before the blessing of heavenly words , an other kinde is named , after consecration the body is signed or signified , he tearmeth the cup his blood , before consecration 't is called another thing , after m m Ante consecrationem aliud dicitur , post consecrationem sanguis Christi nuncupatur . consecration it is called Christs blood . Why ? because the Wine is turned into Christs blood ? no , but because it is a Sacrament of Christs blood , and beareth the similitude thereof , so saith Ambrose in expresse words , as thou n n C. panis : sicut morti●… similitudinem sumpsisti ita etiam san guinis similitudinem bibis . takest the similitude of Christs death , so thou drinkest the similitude of his blood .

9. In the Chapter Iteratur he brings in Pope Pascasius transubstantiating , if I may so speake , your externall , visible , and proper sacrifice of the Masse into a significative and mysticall . o o Quiae q●…otidie labimur , quotidis Christ●… mis●…cè pro 〈◊〉 bis i●…●…la tur . Because ( saith he ) we offend daily , Christ daily is offered for us mystically , and his Passion is delivered to us in a mysterie .

10. In the Chapter De hac out of De hac quidem hostia quae in Christi commemoratione mirabilt●…r fit ed●…re licet : de illa vero quam Christus in Aracru●… i●… ob●…lit secundum se nulli edere lices . Hierom upon Leviticus , hee determineth , that it is lawfull for us to eate of that Host which is offered in memoriall of Christ : but that it is lawfull for no man to eate of that Host in it selfe which Christ offered upon the Altar of the Crosse. Whereof no other good construction can be made then this , that we may eate of the bread broken on the Lords Table , whereby Christs sacrifice upon the Crosse is represented , but not of the very body of Christ it selfe which was offered upon the Crosse. We may eate with the mouth Christs flesh in Symbolo , but not in se or secundumse , wee may eate it in the signe or Sacrament thereof , but not properly and orally in it selfe . What you alleadge for your selfe out of Gratian , maketh very much against you , the P. 111. words are , The sacrifice of the Church doth consist of two things , the visible forme of elements , and the invisible flesh of Christ , both of a Sacrament , and re Sacramenti , as the person of Christ doth consist of God and man . To this distinction wee fully subscribe , that the Lords Supper or Sacrament consists of a visible part , to wit , the outward elements offered to our bodily senses , and of an invisible or heavenly part , the flesh and blood of Christ exhibited by the Spirit to the eye of our faith , but you cannot allow of this distinction of parts : For you have no elements at all . For accidents without substance are no elements , and besides accidents you have nothing in your Sacrament but Christs flesh , which is the res Sacramenti . Moreover if the Sacrament consist of the elements and Christs body , as Christs person consisteth of his humane and divine nature ( as Gratian out of Saint Austin affirmeth ) then is not the substance of the element turned into the substance of Christs body , but both remaine entire , as the humane nature of Christ is not turned into the divine but remaineth entire .

What your Chaplaine urgeth out of 〈◊〉 daies Confere●… with Musk●… p. 〈◊〉 . Gratian for himselfe , I have answered els where .

PAR. 13.

That the words of the institution , This is my Body , are to bee taken in a tropicall and figurative sense , is prooved , 1. By testimonie of Scripture . 2. By authority of Fathers , namely , Justin Martyr , Irenaeus , Clemens Alexandrinus , Tertullian , Cyprian , Origen , Athanasius , Cyrillus Hierosolomitanus , Ambrosius , Epiphanius , Hieronymus , Cyrillus Alexandrinus , Augustinus , Chrysostomus , Theodoretus , Gaudentius , Issidorus , Oecumenius , and Arnoldus Carmotensis . 3. By the confession of our adversaries , Gerson , Gardiner , Bellarmine . 4. By force of reason .

NOw I will ascend from the troubled brooke to the spring , from the Canon Law to the divine , from Gratian to the Author of all grace , Christ Jesus himselfe , whose words This is my Body , you lay as the ground whereon you build both your carnall presence and Transubstantiation , and the sacrifice of the Masse , and the adoration of the Host. But it will beare none of them , nay rather as ground shaken by an earthquake , it will utterly overthrow them all , as may appeare by this Syllogisme .

If in this sentence This is my Body , the meaning bee this Bread is my Body , the speech cannot be proper , but must of necessity bee figurative or tropicall . But in this sentence , This is my Body , the meaning is , This Bread is my Body . Ergo this speech cannot be proper , but must of necessity be figurative and tropicall : and if so , downe falls Transubstantiation built upon it , and carnall presence built upon Transubstantiation , and the oblation and adoration of the Host built upon the carnall presence .

In this Syllogisme the consequence L. 3. de Eu●…har . c. 19. Non potest ●…eri ut vera fit propositio ●…n qua subiectum supponit pro pa●… & praedi●…atum pro corpore Christi , panis 〈◊〉 & corpus Christi sunt res diversissime , & post . si lice ; affirmare disparatum de disparato , lice bit eodem ●…ure affirmare de nihilo aliquid , de ●…ce tenebras , &c. of the Major is so evident , that Cardinall Bellarmine affirmeth , that it is impossible that bread should be called Christs Body otherwaies then by a figure , for bread and Christs Body are things most divers , and if disparate substances , such as bread and Christs body are , might be affirmed one of the other , by the same reason wee might affirme something to bee nothing , light to bee darkenesse , and darkenesse to be light , &c. Bread is a substance inanimate , Christs Body is animate , bread of the figure of a loafe , or wafer , Christs Body of the figure of a man : bread inorganicall or without orgaines or members , Christs Body Organicall : bread made of wheat flower , Christs Body of Virgins blood : bread therefore in propriety of speech , can no more bee Christs Body , then Christ himselfe a Vine , or a Doore , or a Way , or a Rocke , all which speeches our Adversaries themselves confesse to bee tropicall and figurative .

The Minor or Assumption is prooved foure manner of waies .

1. By testimonie of Scripture . 2. By the authority of Fathers , 3. Confession of our Adversaries . 4. Force of reason .

1. The Text is plaine , Christ tooke bread , and blesse●… , and brake , and said , This is my Body , what hee tooke , hee blessed , ●…e brake , hee gave of that he said , This is my Body . But hee tooke , he blessed , he brake , he gave bread , of bread therefore he said , This is my Body . When hee said Hoe or This , hee pointed to something , not to meere accidents as you a a Bel. l. 3. de Euch. c. 19. Hoc non supponit pro accidente sed pro substantia . confesse , for then hee would have said hac not hoc , these not this , nor pointed he to his owne body sitting at Table , for neither did the Apostles , nor could they doubt whether the body sitting at Table were his body ; neither were there any coherence in the words , take this bread , breake and eate in remembrance of me , for this is my body which you see sitting at table with you . He pointed therefore to the substance of bread , when he said hoc This , and consequently the meaning of his words are , This bread is my Body .

2. You take an oath to expound Scriptures , juxta unanimem consensum Patrum , according to the unanimous consent of Fathers , and therefore unlesse you will incurre the censure of perjury , you must allow of this interpretation of Christs words , This is my Body , that is , This bread is my Body , for so they Anno 105. Apolog. 2. p 98. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Anno. 180. l. 4. cont Har. c. 57. eius conditionis quae est secundum nos accipens panem suum corpus esse confitebatur Anno 190. Paedagog . l. 2. c. 3. Benedixit vinum c●… dixit accip●…e hic est sanguis , &c. are expounded by

1. Iustin Martyr . The sanctified food which nourisheth our flesh and our blood , by the change thereof into our nature , we are taught to bee the flesh and blood of him that was incarnate for us , Iesus Christ . 2. Irenaeus . How did the Lord rightly if an other were his Father , taking bread of this condition that is usuall amongst us confesse it to bee his body . 3. Clemens Alexandrinus . He blessed wine when hee said , take drinke this is my blood . 4. Tertullian . So Christ Anno 210. l. 4. cont. Marc. c. 40. panem corpus suum appellans . Anno 230. in Mat. Tract . 35. Panis quem Deus verb●… corpus suum esse fatetur . Anno 250. Epist. 63. vinum fuisse quod sanguinem suum dixit . Anno 340. i●… 1 Cor. 11. Quid est panis Christi corpus . Anno 365. Cyrill Hiros Catec . mist. 4 ▪ Christus de pane affirmat hoc est corpus me●… Anno 390. l 4 da sacrā●… c. 5. Panem fractum tra didit Discipulis dic●… accipite ho●… Anno 390. ad Hedib . q ▪ Nos 〈◊〉〈◊〉 panem quim fregis Dominus deditque Discipulis s●…is esse corp●… Domini ipso dico●…te hoc est corpus meum . taught us , calling bread his Body . 5. Origen . Christ confesseth the bread to bee his body . 6. Cyprian . It was wine which Christ said to be his blood , & Epist. 76. Panem corpus suum vocat . 7. Athanasius . What is the bread , Christs body . 8. Cyrill . Christ said of the bread . This is my Body . 9. Ambrose . He delivered broken bread to his Disciples , saying , This is my Body . 10. Saint Hierom. Let us heare that the bread which Christ brake and gave to his Disciples is his body as himselfe saith .

to salve his credit , nay his faith .

First , in this answer you contradict the Tenet of your Church and your selfe . For if by hoc or this as the Fathers teach , wee are to understand hic panis , this bread , and the sense of the whole is , this bread is my body , and bread here stands not for bread in substance , but in appearance onely , or in the exterior forme , or that which is made of bread as your Chaplaine hath P. 1●… . it , then the words of institution are not taken in the proper sense , but are absolutely and simply figurative , which your selfe denies , and Fisher the Jesuit P. 72 , 73. of Transubstantiation , Sess. 2. and b b l. 〈◊〉 . 9. Propriè non figuratè explicanda sun●… illa verba ho●… est corpus meum . Bellarmine of the Sacrament of the Eucharist ( the words this is my body ought to be taken and expounded properly , not figuratively ) and Alfonsus a Castro , and Sanctesius , and Salmoron , and Costorus , and Gardinerus , and Tonstallus , and Panegyrolla , and Roffensis , and Suares , and Uasques , and other Papists named and confuted by c c l. 10. de Eucha c. 15. Chamierus .

Secondly , this your interpretation no better agreeth with the Fathers words , then a wet mould doth with running mettall which makes it flie backe with a great force , for instance , Iustin Martyr in the words above cited by bread or food , understandeth that whereby as hee saith our bodies are nourished , quae mutata nutrit carnes nostras , but that is not bread turned into Christs body ; for Christs body is no meate for the belly , nor is it turned into our flesh . Irenaeus speaketh of bread , ejus conditionis quae secundum nos , of bread that is usuall among us , l. 4. c. 57. c. 34. of bread , qui est c terra , which is taken from the earth , such is not super-substantiall bread , or transubstantiated into Christs body . Clemens by wine understandeth wine allegorically tearmed Christs blood , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , but that is not wine really turned into Christs blood , for that is Christs blood in propriety of speech , not by a Metaphor or Allegorie . Tertullian as you expound him Epist. 57. Corpus suum p●…nim vocat d●… mul●…m granorum ad●…tione congestum & sanguinem suum vinum appellas de botris ai●… , aci●…is pl●…rimis expressum . speaketh of bread which was vetus figura , an antient figure of Christs body , but that could not bee bread transubstantiated into his body , for before his Incarnation hee had no body into which bread could bee then turned . Cyprian speaketh of bread made of many cornes or graines , and of wine pressed out of many grapes . Ambrose speaketh of bread broken , but super-substantiall bread or turned into Christs body is not broken bread . Saint Hierome likewise speakes of broken bread , and consequently not of the heavenly bread which is Christs flesh . Epiphanius speakes of that which is of a round figure and without sense , and such is bakers bread , but not that bread which Christ said , Iohn the 6. He would give us , to wit , his flesh for the life of the world . Gaudentius speakes of bread consecrated , before he gave it or said , This is my Body ; but it was not according unto your doctrine turned into Christs body before the words this Chrysost. in 1 Cor. Hom. 24. Quemadmodum panis ex multis granis ●…itur . Aug. in Ioh. Tract . 26. Dominus noster Iesus Christus corpus & sanguinem suum in ejs rebus comme●…davit quae in unu●… aliquid rediguntur ex ●…ultis . is my body are uttered , neither ●…oth the Priest consecrate Christs body but the bread , for consecrare is ex communi sacrum facere , of a thing common before , to make a thing Sacred or a Sacrament . Saint Chrysostome and Saint Austin both speake of terrestriall bread , or as you call it bakers bread , not of transubstantiated or coelestiall bread , for both of them observe in the bread and in the wine a representation of Christs mysticall body which is one consisting of many members , as a loafe of bread is ●…c , yet made of the flower of many ●…res or cornes , and the cup of wine is one ●…ough made of the juyce of many grapes . ●…int Isidore speaketh of bread which ●…engtheneth the body , and therefore of ●…ead in substance and not in appea●…nce onely , Lastly , Arnoldus Carmo●…nsis Arnol. de Card●…nal . Chris op. de ●…nct . 〈◊〉 significa●… & significaia ijsdem vocab●…olis censeren●…r . whom you mistake , for Saint ●…yprian saith , not that bread is called ●…hrists flesh because it is turned into it , ●…t because the thing signifying and ●…ing signified are called by the same ●…ames .

Now to the shreds of sententes of Fathers which your Chaplaine takes from your bulke , I will returne as short answers in the order as he hath laid them . Irenaeus saith , that the bread 〈◊〉 con ●…re . c. 34. in the Eucharist is not common bread , so say we also , for it is consecrated to a holy and heavenly use . Tertullian 〈◊〉 . co●…g . M●…rc . c. 〈◊〉 . saith , that hee made the bread his owne ●…ody , that is , as he expoundeth it himselfe in the same place , the d d Dicendo hoc est corpu●… me●… , idest sigura corgoris m●… . figure of his ●…ne body . Saint Hierom Epist. ad He dib . q. 2. saith , the bread came downe f●…om heaven , but hee meaneth Christ himselfe , not the Sacramentall bread . for that came not downe from heav●… but was made of wheate growing up●… the earth . Saint Austin as you quo●… De verb. Dom. Ser. 28. but indeed Ambrose 15. de Sacram. c. speaketh of super-substantiall bread , 〈◊〉 thereby he meaneth Christs flesh or th●… heavenly Manna , not that bread 〈◊〉 eate in the Sacrament with the mouth as he admonisheth in the next word●… it is not the bread which goeth in the body , but the bread of eternall 〈◊〉 which supporteth the substance of 〈◊〉 soule , with whom Saint Austin him selfe accordeth , Ser. 29. de verb. Do●… Thy Shepheard and thy giver of life is th●… Pastor & vitae , dator cibus & panis aeternus , disce , & doce , vive & pasca . quid tibi sufficit cui Deus non suffi cit. meate and eternall bread , learne and teach , live and feed , what is sufficien●… for thee if thy God bee not . a a In anchorato . Epiphanius saith , that he who beleeved not th●… bread to bee as our Saviour said ( his body ) falleth from salvation ; 't is true hee that beleeveth not the bread to be our Saviours body , as our Saviour said it to bee his body endangereth his salvation , for hee questioneth the truth of our Lord , but Epiphanius saith , not that Christs words are to bee take litterally , nay in that very place he●… proveth the contrary : for the brea●… 〈◊〉 round and without sense , but our Lord Hoc enim est rotundae sigisrae & insensibile , Dominum vero nostrum novimus totum sensiti●…um , totum sensum totum Deum . Cyril cattch . mistag . 4 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Catech. mistag 3. Panis postinvo-cationem n●…●…st amplius , panis communis sicut unguentum post invocationem non est amplius unguentum commune sed chrism●… Descrip. eccles. ad an●… . 250. 〈◊〉 know is wholy sensitive or rather all sense . Saint Cyrill saith , that which seemes bread , is not bread , but Christs body , but hee in the words going before , and in his Catech. plainely sheweth his owne meaning , Come not therefore as unto simple bread and wine , or ●…are bread and wine . The bread after the calling upon of the Holy Ghost , is no more common bread , as the ointment after benediction is no more common ointment but chrisme . Yet oyle after benediction still retaineth the substance of oyle , and so doth the bread after consecrasion the substance of bread . The Author Decaen . Dom. who is so much in your Bookes , that wee finde him almost in every Section ; is not the blessed Martyr Saint Cyprian , as Bellarmine proveth by many arguments , but a farre later Writer by name Arnoldus Carmotensis , as the Epistle Dedicatory to Pope Adrian , who sate Anno 1154. extant in All-Soules Library in Oxford testifieth : but bee hee Cyprian or Arnoldus who wrote the Treatises de cardinalibus Christi operibus , hee is no friend to your carnall presence , or Transubstantiation , for in the Chapter cited by you , hee hath these words , wee whet not our teeth to eate , but by Non dentes ad mordendum accuimus , sed fide sincerâ panem sanctum frangimus & partimur . sincere faith wee breake the holy bread . And in the words immediatly following those words which you alleadge , hee saith , that Christ powreth his divine Essence into the Sacrament , even as in Christ under the humane nature the divinity lay hid , therefore according to this Author , there remaineth the substance of bread , together with Christs Body Sacramentally united , as in Christ , the humane and the divine nature remaine united hypostatically . And moreover , that when hee saith the bread is changed , not in shape , but in nature , and by the Omnipotencie of the Word made flesh , that hee speaketh of a Sacramentall change and not substantiall , and that by nature hee meaneth the naturall and common use , not the essence of bread , appeareth by his owne words a little before in this Immortalitatis alimonia datur a communibus cibis differens corporalis substantiae retinens spectem . Tract of the Supper of the Lord . That although the immortall food delivered in the Eucharist differ from common meate , yet it retaineth the kinde of corporall substance . And in the Treatise following , Our Lord , De unct . Chrism . 〈◊〉 dit noster Dominus 〈◊〉 mensâ in qud ultimum cum Apostolis participa 〈◊〉 convivium proprljs ma●…bus panem & vinum , in cruce vero manibus militum corpus tradidit vulnerandum , &c. saith he , at the Table in his last Supper , gave bread and wine with his owne hands , and on the Crosse hee gave up his body to bee wounded by the hands of the Souldiers , ( pray take speciall notice that hee gave bread at the Table , and his body on the Crosse , not his body at the Table , no more then bread at the Crosse ) that hee might expound to the Nations , how divers names or kindes are reduced to the same essence , and the things signifying and signified are called by the same names . If Cyril would be comming in as your Chaplaine speaketh with his Conversion , and Nyssen with his Transmutation , and Theophylact with his Transelementation , they shall be met with and repayed all three in their owne coyne . a a Epist. ad Colosyrium convertens ea in veritatam propri●… carnis . Cyril who in his Epistle to Colosyrius ( if it bee his , whereof Vasques doubteth in his 180. Disputation , upon the 3. part of Thomas his summes ) saith , the bread and wine are changed into the veritie of Christs flesh : in his second booke upon Iohn Chap. 42. saith , that the waters of Baptisme are by the operation of the Holy b b Spiritus Sancti operatione ad divinam aquae reformantur naturam . Ghost changed into a divine nature . c c Orat. Catec . c. 37. pan●… in carnim . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Nazianz. Orat. 40. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Nyssen who saith that bread is transmuted into Christ body , saith in the same Oration , that Christs humane nature is transmuted into a divine excellencie . And Gregory Nazienzes , saith , that by Baptisme we are transmuted into Christ . Theophylact who upon the 6. of Iohn saith , the bread is transelementated into Christs body 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , saith that we are transelementated into Christ . You see therefore that neither Cyrils 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , nor Nyssen●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , nor Theopylact's 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 come home to your 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , they import no more then a spirituall 〈◊〉 Sacramentall change . Were they 〈◊〉 bee taken in the most proper sense for a substantiall change : yet would they not helpe you a whit , for in the conversion of water into wine , or the transmutation of one element into another , the formes and accidents are changed : but the common matter remaineth the same , whereas in your Transubstantiation the whole matter and substance perisheth , and the accident●… onel●… remaine .

Thirdly , I proove that the Pronoune ( hoc ) this standeth for hic panis by confession of our learned Adversaries ▪ d d Cont Flori●… . l. 4 Dicendum est quod hoc demonstrat substantiam panu . Gerson , wee must say that the Pronoune ( hoc ) demonstrateth the substance of bread . e e De diabol . Sophu . Christus a●… evidentur , hoc est corpus meum , demonstrans panem . Gardiner , Christ saith plainely This is my Body , pointing to bread . f f De Sacr. Euch. l. 3. c. 19. Dominus accepit pann●… , beuedixit , & dedie Discipul●… , & de eo ait , hoc est corpus meum . Bellarmine , The Lord tooke bread , blessed it , and gave it to his Disciples , and of it said , This is my Bodie .

Fourthly , I proove it by force of reason , when this Pronoune hoc is uttered it must signifie something then existent , but that could not be Christs body under the accidents of bread , for your g g Bellar. l. 1. del●… hoc 11. Aquinas p. 3 q 78 art ▪ 5 In ulumo instante in quo profertur vox ultima ponitur conversio panis in Corpus Christi . selves teach , that the bread is not turned into Christs body till the last instant , in which the whole proposition is uttered : it remaineth therefore that the Pronoune hoc stands for haec accidentia ( which yee all disclaime ) or hic panis , this bread as then unaltered . Hereunto you answer , that hoc doth signifie and suppose , not for that instant in which it is uttered , but for the end of the proposition , when the praedicatum is in being , as when I say this is a crosse and make it withall , the word this doth suppose for the crosse , not which is when the word ( this ) is uttered , but which is within the whole time that I speak , so when I say taceo , I doe not signifie that I speake not while I am uttering this word , but that I am silent when I have done uttering . So saith your Chaplaine in these operative speeches P. 135. of our Saviour , Lazarus come forth , young man arise , the words Lazarus and young man , did not signifie persons existent then precisely when they were uttered , but when the speeches were compleat .

If Sophistry were the science of salvation , these knack and querkes of wit Refut. might be in high esteeme , wheras they no more befit Divinity then it would become grave Cato to cut many a crosse-caper . I might justly remand you & your Chaplaine to the disputations in parvis , where such cummin as this is tithed , or rather such gnats streigned by puneys in Logick : yet because you shall not say that I let passe any apex or title in your booke , I will examine all these your instances . To which I replie , first in generall , that you beg what you ought to prove and use a base fallacie in all this di●…●…d petitio principij : you take it for granted , that these words of our Saviour ( This is my Body ) are practicall in your sense , that is , worke a substantiall and miraculous change , which we denie , and you will never be able to make good proofe of .

For first , bare words as they are words , have no operative power , much lesse a vertue to worke miracles , which cannot be effected without the imployment of the divine Omnipotencie .

Secondly , words that are practicall , that is used by God or men as instruments to produce any effect of this nature , are imperative or uttered in the imperative mood , as Be thou cleane , receive thy sight , Lazarus come forth , young man arise , sile obmutesce and the like , not in the indicative , as This is my Body , This is my Blood .

Thirdly , the words of themselves can no more proove the bread to bee turned into Christs Body then the accidents . For certaine it is , and con●…sed on all sides , that when hee uttered these words , This is my Body , he pointed to that which he held in his hands , which was a substance clothed with the accidents , colour , quantity , tast and the like .

But your selves confesse , that by vertue of these words This is my Body , the accidents are not turned into Christs Body : therefore neither can it be prooved , that by vertue of these words , Th●… is my Body the substance of bread is turned into Christs Body .

In particular to your first instance in a Crosse , which at the same instant you make , and say this is a Crosse. I answer , first that if you could proove Christ had a purpose to make his Body in your sense , as you have to make a Crosse , when you say this is a Crosse , and make it withall , this instance of yours were considerable , but till you proove the former , 't is nothing to the purpose . Secondly , either you have made the Crosse with your fingers before , or at the instant when you say ( this : ) or els your speech , this is a Crosse , if it be true , is figurative , the present tense est being taken pro proximè futuro , that is , for the time immediatly ensuing upon the uttering of your words .

To your second instance , in the word taceo , I hold my peace . I answer , that if you will make a proposition of it , you must resolve it into ego sum tacens , I am silent , and then the subject ( I ) is in being when this word ( I ) is uttered , and likewise the praedicatum silent is in being as soone as the word is uttered . Howbeit in ordinary and vulgar speech taceo is taken for jam nunc tacebo , I hold my peace , tha●… is , I will utter not a word more .

To your third instance in Lazarus and the young man . I answer , that either Christ by a Metonymie , partis pro toto , called Lazarus his soule , or his body by the name of the whole Lazarus , or if Christs speech be proper , that both Lazarus and the young man , at that very instant when Christ called them were persons existent , their soules being returned to their bodies . For though the one came not forth out of his grave , nor the other arose till after our Saviours speech was compleat and ended , yet I say , and you shall never be able to disproove it , that at the same moment when Christ called Lazarus , Lazarus was in being , and so likewise the young man and the damsell . In a proposition every part or word is vox significativa , as soone as it is uttered , as you may learne out of Aristotles booke de interpretatione , C. 〈◊〉 , 2 , 3. and S. * * Quot verba sunt tot signa , signum nisi aliquid significat non potest esse signum . Austin his Dialogue with Adeodatus , therefore as soore as this Pronoune hoc is uttered , it must then signifie something then being . A proposition is a complexum , like to a heape , or a number of three graines , whereof though the number bee not compleat till the actuall adding of the third graine , yet hath every graine his existence when it is first laid : if the parts of the proposition signified not the parts of our conception , the whole could not signifie the whole , that which is in speech a proposition , is in the understanding a composition , and the simple●… must needs bee presupposed existent , before we can actually compound them . If this will not satisfie you , I leave yo●… to Cardinall Bellarmine and the Trent Catechisme and Solmeron to be better informed in this point both of Grammer and Divinity .

a a In Mat. 26. Profectò propositio non est vera nisi postquam factus est circulus . Sed oratio accipitur pro vera qua id quod futurum est accipitur pro iam facto per tropum , neu iuxta proprietatem sermonis . Solmeron affirmeth with a profectò and full asseveration , that the speech of him who in drawing a circle doth say this is a circle , cannot without trope or figure be judged true .

The Fathers of the b b Catech. Trid , Huius vocis ho●… ea vis est ut rei praesentis substantiam demonstret . Councell of Trent in a Catechisme , set forth by the commandement of Pope Pius the fift , affirme directly against you and your Chaplaine , that such is the force of this word hoc , that it demonstrateth the substance of a thing present .

Cardinall c c Bel. l. 〈◊〉 . de Sacra Euch c. 〈◊〉 . In propositionibus quae significant id quod ●…unc fit cum dicitur , pronomina demonstrativa non demonstrant 〈◊〉 quod est , sed id quod erit , &c. Bellarmine taketh you also to taske , relates your opinion and professedly refuteth it . Some Catholickes saith he answer , that in such propositions which signifie that which is then done when it is spoken , the demonstrative pronounes doe not demonstrate that which is , but that which will be , and they give these examples , as if one drawing a line or circle , saith , this is a line , this is a circle , as also the pronoune ought to bee expounded in those words of Christ , Iohn the 15. This is my commandement . You cannot but say that this is your very opinion , and the grounds you lay downe for it . Now observe I pray you how punctually the , Cardinall answers them : d d Etsi pronomen demonstra●…ivum demonstret rem fu●…ram , quand●… n●…hil est praesens quod demonstretur , ut in exemplis allatis : tam●… si q●… digito aliquid ostendit dum pronomen effert valde absurdum videtur dicere p●…onomine illo non demonstrari rem praesentem . Atqui Domi●… accep●… 〈◊〉 nem & illum porrigens , a●… accipite edite hoc est corpus me●… , videtur igitur demonstravisse panem , & sane in illis verbis bibite ex hoc 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 durum est non demonstrare id quod erat , sed id tantum quod 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Although saith he , the pronoune demonstrative demonstrate a thing future when there is nothing present which may be demonstrated by it as in the former ●…xamples : Yet if a man should point to something with his finger when hee uttereth the pronoune hoc or this , it seemes to be very absurd to say that the pronoune this doth not demonstrate something present . But our Lord tooke bread , and reaching it , said , Take eate this is my Body : hee seemes therefore to have demonstrated bread , neither is it any thing against 〈◊〉 which they alleadge for themselves , that a proposition doth not signifie till t●… end of the proposition , when the whole is uttered , for though that be true of a preposition which is a kinde of Oration , yet the demonstrative pronounes presently signifie some certaine thing even before the other words follow , & verily 't is exceeding harsh to say that in these words , Drinke ye all of this , the pronoune this doth not demonstrate the thing which then was , b●… onely that which should be afterwards .

Lastly , whether hoc signifie as soone as it is uttered , or after the whole proposition is pronounced , I demand of you what it signifieth , not these e e Bellar. de Sac. Euch. 〈◊〉 1. c. 11. Thomas di●…it pronomen hoc non demonstrare accidentia , quasi esset sensus hoc id est hee accidentia sunt Corpus Christi ; id enim v●… absurdissi●…um esset . accidents , for the accidents are not Christs Body . Aquinas , f f Vid 〈◊〉 . de E●…char . l. 10. 19. Suarez , and Bellarmine , not onely reject that Exposition , but also brand it with the name of a most absurd conceit . Of the same judgement are g g Soto in quare . Sent. dis. 9. q. 2. Sot●… and h h Ians . concord . eva●…g . c. 13●… , hoc est demonstrativum substantia . Iansenius . If the pronoune hoc demonstrate not accidents it must demonstrate the substance ; either of bread then or Christs Body , if the substance of bread , then is there in the words necessarily a Tropologie ; if of Christs Body , then you make of them a Tautologie or Battologie . And here againe you sticke in the mudd , and though your Chaplaine labour with might and maine to pull you out of it , yet hee plucks you not out , but you draw him in , and both are swallowed up in the same quagmire . For if this your interpretation bee admitted , this body of mine is my body , these absurdities will necessarily insue upon it .

First , that these words are not consecratory . Secondl●… , that they are not at all 〈◊〉 . Thirdly , that they are not argumentative or 〈◊〉 . Fourthly , that they are meere Identicall and ●…ugatorie .

1. Consecratorie words are such , whereby something which before was common is made sacred , according to the words of Saint Austin , accedit verbum ad elementum & fit Sacramentum . But if the meaning of these words , This is my Body be this body of mine is my body , nothing by them of common is made sacred . For Christs body was never common , but alwaies most sacred , and by your explication hoc this hath no reference to bread but to Christs bodie .

2. You teach generally that these words of the institution are not contemplative , but practick and operatorie , that is , they effect what they signifie , and indeed upon this hinge hang●… all your doctrine of Transubstantiation and carnall presence : but glossing the words with your paraphrase , viz. This body is my body , you breake downe this hinge . For all words which are operatory , or practicke , produce something by their prolation , which was not before : but Christs body was his body before the prolation of these words ; therefore by the prolation of these words it is not made . If you answer as your Chaplaine doth , that Christ by these words made not indeed his body , yet thereby hee made his body to bee under the shape of bread : you quite overthrow your doctrine of Transubstantiation . For the putting a body which was existent before , in a place or under a shape where it was not before , as for example , a candle under a bushell , or a picture under a curtaine , or a face under a maske , is a translocation , or transposition , or alteration of habit , or whatsoever rather then a Transubstantiation . This your acute Schoolemen well saw , Aureolus , Vasques , and Suarez , and therefore contend for a new production of Christs body in the Sacrament . For a meere succeeding of it in the place of bread , or union thereof with the accidents , or bringing it to , and placing it on the Lords Table will not inferre a Transubstantiation , their reasons are good . a a In 4. Se●… . dist. 11 q. 1. Cum preci●… unum succadit alteri , 〈◊〉 est verum dicere quod illud cui succeditur acc●…dat & convertatur in illud quod succedit , i●… e converso succedens accedit ad illud cui' s●…dit , illud 〈◊〉 transi●… in aliud quod desini●… antequam perv●…niat 〈◊〉 illud . Aureolus thus argues , when one thing precisely succeeds another , it is not true to say that that thing to which another succeedeth doth come , and is converted into that which succeedeth : that thing doth not passe into another which ceaseth to be before it come to that other ; as for example , wee say not that the Sea or a river passeth into another , which is dried up before it can come to it : as you say the substance of bread is abolisht before the substance of Christs body succeed . b b In 3. Thom , disp. 1●… . c. 3. Unto cum illu qu●…unque mod●… fiat non potest non esse accidentaria Vasques thus impugne●… your assertion , if Christs body bee 〈◊〉 produced de novo but onely united and applied to the Sacramentall signes to which it was not before , this union , by whats●…ver meanes it bee wrought is onely accidentall , and consequently cannot make 〈◊〉 substantiall conversion . c c In 3. Thom. disp. 52. Sect. 4. Per sol●…m actionem ad●…uctivam rev non explicatur vera conver●… substantialis & Trāsubstantiati●… sed solùm translocatio quaedam : quando una substantia solum s●…dit in loco 〈◊〉 no●… potest prepri●… dici ●…a conv●…i in altam . Suarez drive●… this nayle to the head , by a meere addictive action ( whereby Christs body 〈◊〉 brought to bee under the shape of bread ) the true nature of Transubstantiation is not unfolded , such an adduction importeth onely a translocation and not a substantiall conversion , when one substance onely succeeds in the place of another , the one cannot properly bee said to bee converted into the other . For how absurd were it to say that D Bishop were transubstantiated into D. Smith , because D. Smith succeeds him in the See of Chalcedon : or that when your foure Lecturers at the Sorbon one after another read in the same pew , that at every new Lecture there is a new Transubstantiation , and by name that D. 〈◊〉 who 〈◊〉 at seven a clock , is transubstantiated into D. Filsac , who takes his roome and reades at nine a clock .

3. By this your Exposition you cut your selfe in the hammes , and enervat●… your maine argument for Transubstantiation . For as I told you in the Conference , the bare affirming Christs body to be his body , prooves not that any thing is turned into it . If Christ were now comming in the clouds , and any pointing to the cloud should say this or there is Christs body , could any from thence conclude the conversion of the cloud into his body . Every proposition which is of use in argumentation , and can affoord or minister a reason to proove any thing , must consist of one or more of the 4 praedicata topica , or at least one of the quinque praedicabilia , as every young Sophister can informe you : but in this proposition This is my Body , as you exp●…und it , this my body is my body , there is none of the 4 praedicata topica , or quinque praedicabilia . For the predicate herein is neither genus , nor species , nor differentia , nor proprium , nor accidents of the subject , but the selfe same with it re and ratione .

4. Hence it followeth , that the proposition is meerely Identicall and neugatorie , which to affirme of any of the words of the word of life especially of these whereby hee instituted a most divine Sacrament were blasphemy , this fearefull consequence thus I inferre upon your interpretation .

Every proposition in which the subject and predicate are the same , not only quoad suppositum , but also quoad significationem , is meerely Identicall and nugatorie : In this propoposition God is wise , the subject and the predicate are the same , quoad suppositum , but not quoad significationem , for the subjectum Deus signifieth Gods Essence in generall , the predicate wise signifieth but one Attribute in particular : which though in regard of the simplicity of the divine Essence , it be all one with God himselfe ; yet is it distinguished from God quoad nostrum modum concipiendi , according to our apprehension . Likewise in this proposition , Petrus est Apostolus , Peter is an Apostle , or a man is a living creature , the praedicatum and subjectum are the same , quoad suppositum , for Peter is that Apostle , and that Apostle is Peter , a man is that living creature , and that living creature is a man : yet they differ , quoad significationem , for the subject signifieth the person of Peter , the predicate his office , and in the other proposition the subject signifieth the compositum , the predicate an essentiall part onely ; and so in all other instances your Chaplaine brings : neither can any one instance bee brought of a proposition which is not meerely neugatorie , in which the praedicatum and subjectu●… are not distinct quo ad significationem .

But according to yo●… exposition in this proposisition , This is my Body , the subject this and the predicate bodie are the same , not onely quoad suppositum , but also quoad significationem , not onely quoad rem , but also quoad modum ; for i●… it idem numero , which is maximè idem is predica●… de eodem numero , the subject hoc standing for and signifying bread actually turned into Christs Body , and the predicate Christs Body made of bread .

Ergo according to ●…our interpretation , the words of institution , containe 〈◊〉 proposition meerely Identicall or nugatorie .

If I thought you had not already you full ●…ad . I could add more weight t●… my former replies , from the authority of your great Gamali●…ls , at whose feete you and your Chaplaine were brought up , I meane Aquinas , Soto , Durand , and Bellarmine .

Aquinas thus loads you . Some have said that the pronoune this is to be understood 3. p q. 〈◊〉 . 8. a●… . 5 Alij dixer●… , quod dictio hoc facit demonstr●…nem ad sensum , sed intelligit●… haec demonstratio 〈◊〉 pro illo instante locutionis qu●… profer●…ur hac dictio , sad pr●…●…imo instants loc●…tio is sicu●… cum aliq●… not for the instant , in which the word is uttered , but for the last instant of the whole speech , as when I say tacco , I doe not signifie that I speake not while I am uttering this word , but that I am silent when I have done uttering of it , ( is not this your owne instance , p. 127. ) But saith Aquinas this cannot stand , because according to this glosse , the sense of Christs words should be my body is my body , which the above named speech doth not make to be so , because it was so before the uttering d ci●… tacco , &c. Sed hoc star●… no●… posest , quia secundum hoc huiu●… locutionis hic esset sensus , corp●… means est corp●… meum , quod praedicta locutio non facit , quia hoc fuit ante prolati●…em ●…n de nec hoc praedicta locutio significat . of these words .

Soto thus presseth you . This opinion I●…s 4. Sent. dist. 1●… q. 1. ar●… . 〈◊〉 . Sed ●…que ista ops̄n●… 〈◊〉 consona●… , ●…am ●…unc pronom●… demonstra . res corpus as sensum s●…●…eret quod corpus est , corpus , haec autem forma non est operativa , nec conversiva panis in corpus , quoniam ante etus prolationem id ipsum erat verum . saith he , ( which referreth the pronounc hoc to that which is accomplished a●…ter the pronunciation of the whole proposition , that is , to bread actually turned into Christs Body ) is not consonant to the truth , for the the pronoune should demonstrate Christs body , and make this sense the body is the body . Now this forme of speech is no way operative , nor doth it turne bread into Christs body , because , before the uttering of them it was true that Christs body was his body .

Durand thus chargeth you . If the pronoune hoc points to Christs Body , the proposition may bee true , referring the Dist. 8. q. 2. Si singulariter demonstraret corpus Christi veritatem posset habere propositio , referendo demonstrationem ad ●…imum instans prolationis verborum , quia tunc corpus Christi est sub speciebus panis , & esset sensus , hoc , id est , corpus meum est corpus me●… , sed haec forma non congruit Sacramento ; quia per Sacramentum non efficitur us corpus Christi sit corpus sed solum efficitur quod corpus Christi continea●…r in Sacramento . pointing thereof to the last instant of the prolation of the words , because then Christs body begins to be under the accidents of bread , and the sense may bee , this that is my body , is my body , but this forme of speech is not agreeable to the Sacrament , because this Sacrament doth not make Christs body to bee his body , but onely makes it to be in the Sacrament or under the accidents of bread , now the proposition so understood as above is expressed , onely implies that Christs body is his body , and not that it is made by this Sacrament , which is against the nature of every Sacrament all forme wherein that is effected , by the uttering of the words which they signifie .

Bellarmine thus clearely confutes De Sacr. Euch. l. x. c. xx . Verba Sacramenta lia secundum Catholicos non sunt speculativa sed practica , efficiunt enim quod significant , unde etiam operatoria dicuntur . At si pronomen demonstrat solum corpus , verba erunt speculativa non practica , semper enim v●…run est demonstrato Christi corpore dicero hoc est corpus Christi , five id dicatur a●…te consecrationem sive postea : sive a laico , sive a sac●…rdote , a●… verba Sacramentalia quia operatoria non sunt vera nisi dicau●…r ab illo qui est legitimus Minister , ●…eque sunt vera antequam Sacramentum effisiatur . you , and cuts your throat as it were with a knife whet upon your owne grindstone . Sacramenta words according to Catholiques , are not speculative but practicall , for they effect that which they signifie , whence they are called operatorie , but if the pronoune hoc demonstrate onely the body , the words will bee speculative not practicall , for 't is alwaies true , pointing to Christs body , to say this is the body of Christ , whether the words be spoken before Consecration or after , either by a Priest or a Laye person , but the Sacrament all words , because they are operatorie , or working words have not their force unlesse they bee spoken by a lawfull Minister , neither are they true before the Sacrament is administred .

PAR. 14.

That in the words of the institution of the cup. this cup is the New Testament i●… my blood , there are divers figures is prooved by unavoidable consequences , and the confession of our Learned Adversaries , Salmoron , Barradius and Jansenius .

THe two kindes in the Lords Supper , are like the eyes in our body which are mooved by the same nerve opticke : or double strings in an instrument which are tuned alike : 〈◊〉 comparative reason therefore drawne from the one to the other cannot but be of great force . The sixt argumen●… therefore in the Conference as you reckon was from thence drawne after this manner .

The words used in the Consecration of the bread , are so to bee expounded as the like in the consecration of the cup. But the words used in the Consecration of the cup , are to bee expounded by a figure . Ergo the words used in the Consecration of the bread , are to ●…ee expounded by a figure .

In this Sylogisme , because you lay you●… batteries at both propositions , the Major and the Minor I will fortifie them both , and first the Major It is a topi●…k axiome similium est id●…m judicium , like are to be judged by the like , and these are so like , that a a I. 〈◊〉 . de Sacr. Euch. c. 10. Add●… argumentum robustissi●… ex scriptura , Nam si hoc demonstraret 〈◊〉 , ita etiamin consecratione vini hi●… sive hoc 〈◊〉 vin●… . Bellarmine himselfe draweth an argument from the one to the other . I will add saith hee a most forcible argument . If the pronoune hoc used in the Consecration of the bread , demonstrateth bread , then also the same pronoune this used in the Consecration of the cup must needs demonsta●… wine , the validity of which consequence dependeth upon the correspondencie betweene the words used in the institution of each kinde , neither indeed can any reason bee assigned why the words used in the one , may not as well admit of a figure as the words used in the other : both are dogmaticall , both have a precept annexed unto them , both are words of a Testament , both Sacramentall , and according to your doctrine alike operatory : never therefore exclaime against us for expounding the words used in the institution of the bread by one figure , when you expound the words used in the institution of the cup by two figures at least . Blame not us for interpreting This is my Body , tha●… is a signe or Sacrament of my body , when you your selves interpret This cup is the New Testament , that is , this drinke is 〈◊〉 signe or Sacrament of the New Testament : If you alleadge that Calix is expounded in the same place by funditur , and argue from thence , that because the blood of Christ and not wine is shed for us : therefore this cup must needs signifie his blood : I answer , that the figure in panis in like manner is expounded in the same place by frangitur , and 1 Cor. 11. 24. This is my Body which is broken . argue that because bread is broken in the Sacrament , and not Christs body , therefore ( this ) must needs signifie thi●… bread . If you replie that frangitur is ●…t for frangetur , I will say in like man●…er , that funditur is put for fundetur . ●…he Major being therefore put out of all doubt , let us examine the Minor , which was this . The words used in the Consecration of the cup , are to he expounded by one figure or more . For the words as they are recorded by Saint Luke , are these , This Cup is the New Luk. 22. 20. Testament in my blood . Where we have a double figure : First , a Metonomie , ●…ntinentis pro contento , the cup is taken for the thing contained in the cup. Secondly , signatum pro signo , the Testament for the Signe , Seale , or Sacrament of the New Testament . So saith Theophylact , In Luk. 〈◊〉 . Sanguine suo novum Testamentu●… obsig●…vit . alleadged by you . In the Old Testament Gods Covenant was confirmed by the blood of bruit beasts : but now , since the Word was made flesh . He sealed the New Testament with his owne blood . So your Gorran , the blood of Iesus Gor. in Luk. 22. Sanguis Christi est confirmatio novi Testamenti . Christ is the confirmation of the New Testament , for a Testament is confirmed by the death of the Testator . Nay so your most accomplished Jesuits , Solmeron , Sol●… . Ies. Tom 9. Tract . 15. Subest in his duplex metonymi●… , primò quia continens pon●…ur pro con●… , id est poculum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 pro ●…no ●…o quod vinum in ipso contine●…r Secundum est in eo quod 〈◊〉 in poculo foedus v●… Testamentum dicitur 〈◊〉 , cum s●…us ●…ymbolum . and Barradius , Solmeron pointeth to a double figure , saying , in these words we have a double figure , first , the cup being put for that which is contained in the 〈◊〉 Secondly , the Testament for a Symb●… thereof . Barradius though he expo●… the word Testament as you doe for Legacie bequeathed by Christs w●… yet he addeth expressely , that it is taken by a figure called Metony●… What say you here to this , 〈◊〉 word Testamentum is here taken p●… perly enough . For not onely a mans 〈◊〉 ward will . but also his outward wri●… will in parchment , is commonly called T●… stamentum , because it is an authent●… Tom. 〈◊〉 . l. 3. c. 〈◊〉 . de iustit . Euch. T●…stamentum su●…ur pro legato Meto●… , conti●… Testamentum su ●…ur pro cote●…to leg●…o vel 〈◊〉 , hoc sensu sangu●… Christi est Testa●… novum , id est leg●… 〈◊〉 novum & admira●…le . signe of his will . I pray expresse y●… selfe a little farther , what meane y●… by properly enough ? doe you mea●… by an usuall figure , or without a●… figure , if you meane by an usuall figure , assent unto you , and it sufficeth for th●… strengthening of my argument : if 〈◊〉 meane without a figure , name me 〈◊〉 Author of note , Divine or Civil●… who before you affirmed that either Legacie bequeathed by will , or the p●… per and parchment in which the will●… written is in propriety of speech with●… any figure , either 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in Greeke , Testamentum in Latine , or Will in 〈◊〉 glish . Not to take the advantage might against you , that the blood of Christ as you beleeve it to bee in the ●…acrament cannot bee an authenticall ●…gne of Christs will , because if wee should grant it to be there really , in your sense : yet it is not there visibly , ●…nd therefore cannot be an authenticall signe of it , like the paper or parchment ●…ou speake of , or as we teach the wine in the cup to be : I shall bee much in●…ebted unto you if you can resolve mee ●…ow the blood of Christ can be without any figure , his last Will and Testament , sith

1. He made his Will at this his last Supper , but made not then his blood . ●…igest . de test . Testamentum est volunt●… nostrae iust●… sententia de eo quod qui●… 〈◊〉 veli●…●…st mo●…em s●…m . Mat. 26. 28.

2. His Will was his just determination or appointment of what he would have done after his death , his blood is no such thing .

3. The Scripture speakes of blood of the Testament , hic est sanguis novi Testamenti , never of a Testament of blood .

4. Blood is a su●…stantiall part of the Testator , and therefore not his Will or Testam●…nt .

5. Every Will is either written or nuncupative , the blood of the Testator is neither .

After you have blunted the edge of these weapons , see how you can rebate the point of a a Ian har . Evang p 91. Dicendum est certum esse hanc lacutionem , hic calix novum Testamentum est in me●… sanguine , non posse accipi in proprio senso , sed per tropum quendam . Sive enim Calix dicitur accipi pro vasculo potorio d●… quo bibeb●… Apostoli , sive pro sanguine Synecdochicè in ipso poculo contento , non potest consistere ut is illis verbis sit propria 〈◊〉 : Ne●… enim dixerit propria locutio●… vas●…ulum illud potorium fuisse Testamentum , cum incertum sit 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ex●… illud poculum , ●…c nov●… Testamentum 〈◊〉 esse o●…es testat●…r 〈◊〉 , sed nec sang●…is in calice 〈◊〉 potest propria loc●… dic●… Testamentum . Iansenius his dart●… which he lets flie levell at you . These words saith he , cannot bee taken properly , whether the cup be taken for the vessell used for drinking , or for the blood of Christ by a Synechdoche : for no man will say that the vessell in propriety of speech is Christs Testament , sith the Scripture testifieth that Christs Will is eternall , so i●… not that cup , which no man knoweth whether it be extant at this day or no , neither can the blood of Christ bee properly said to be his Testament , for his Testament i●… one , not many , and Paul in the Epistle 〈◊〉 the Hebrewes , teacheth out of Jeremie , that the Gospell is the New Testament , Christs blood is not therefore properly the New Testament . Moreover in Matthew and Marke the blood is said to be the blo●… of the New Testament , it is not therefore the New Testament no more then the blood of Bullocks is the Old Testament . Lastly , the word cup cannot be taken for blood contained in the cup , as it is evident by that which is added in my blood . For the speech will not bee congruous if thou say this blood is the New Testament in my blood : the cup therefore must be properly taken for the vessell , which undoubtedly in the proper signification is not the New Testament , wherefore of necessity wee must confesse that these words this cup is the New Testament in my blood , cannot bee taken in the proper sense , but are spoken by a trope or figure .

PAR. 15.

That the words of our Saviour , Matth ▪ 26. 29. I will drinke no more of this fruit of the vine , are meant of the Evangelicall cup , or Sacrament , is prooved against D Smith and S. E. by the testimonie of Origen , Clemens Alexandrinus , Cyprian , Austin , Chrysostome , Druthmarus , the Author of the booke de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus , Jansenius , Maldonat , the Councell of Wormes and Pope Innocentius : and D. Smith and his Chaplaines evasions refuted .

THe last argument prosecuted in the Conference , was taken out of th●… 26. of Saint Matthew , ver. 29. wher●… Christ himselfe not onely after the blessing of the cup , but also after hee had ministred the Communion , saith , will drinke no more of this fruit of the vine . Doubtlesse Christ who institute●… the Sacrament , and immediatly before consecrated the cup , ver. 28. best knew what it was ; wine or blood , and he resolves us that it was the fruit of the vine , and that we al know is wine , not blood , whence I framed this Syllogisme .

No blood is in propriety of speech the fruit of the vine . That which Christ and his Apostles dranke in the consecrated Chalice was the fruit of the vine . Ergo it was not blood .

For this blow you have a double ward ; the first is , that Christ called his 〈◊〉 blood the fruit of the vine , because it was such in appearance , the 〈◊〉 of wine remaining after the 〈◊〉 thereof was tur●…ed into Christs blood . Put the question but to your owne conscience , and I dare say it will tell you R●…fut . that this your answer is a meere shift and evasion . For why should not Christ who is the truth , rather call that hee dranke according to that which it was in substance and truth , then that which it was as you teach onely in appearance , who ever heard accidents without substance , quantity or quality , moysture or rednesse called the fruit of the vine ? did Christ drinke meere accidents in the cup ? or doe you at this day in the consecrated Chalice ? if so , your Priests could never be at any time overseene or become light-headed in drinking never so much of the consecrated cup. For it is a thing never heard of , that meere accidents should send up a fume , much lesse overcome the braine and cause drunkennesse in any man , and I hope you will not flie to a miracle , and say that your Priests braines are intoxec●…ted by miracle , in case he take a dram to much of the wine he hath consecrated . Your owne Schoolemen put the case , that a Priest may sometimes forget himselfe by drinking too deepe even in the holy cup. But I presse not this so much as that you in this your answer forget that we are about the Sacrament , where you will by no meanes allow of any such figure as excludeth the verity of the thing , otherwaies if you take a liberty to expound these words by a figure , and say , that Christ by a trope here called that which was his blood , wine , you shall never debarre us of the liberty of expounding the former verse by the like figure , and saying , that Christ called by a trope that which was in truth wine , his blood . 'T is hard to say , and more then you can prove , that Christ ever dranke his own blood upon earth : a a Mal. in Mat 26. 〈◊〉 c●…o ness erat bib●…rus sanguine●… suum nec verè nec metaphoricè , vinum arste●… metaphoric●… bibiturus erat . Ego inquit dispono vobis ut edatis & bibat●… super mensam me am in reg●…o m●…o , ergo non de sang●…e suo s●… de vino dixit , non bibam amodo de hoc genimine vitis . Evas . 2. Christ neither dranke his blood properly nor metaphorically , but wine he was to drink in heaven metaphorically as himselfe said , Luke the 22. 29 , 30. I appoint unto you a kingdome , that you may eat & drinke at my table in my kingdome , therefore Christ spake not of his blood , but of wine , when he said , I will drinke no more of this fruit of the vine till I drink it new in heaven , thus your own Maldonate .

Yet you have another ward you say , p. 162 , 163 , 164. that there is a Legall cup , and an Eucharisticall , both mentioned in Saint Luke , and that these words were spoken of the legall or common cup , as Saint Ierome , Saint Bede , Saint Theophylact expound .

This ward will not beare off the Refut. blow which comes with such a weight , that it drives your weapon to your head , for

1. 'T is evident to any man that wilfully shuts not his eyes , that this in the 29. ver. hath reference to this in the 28. ver , drinke ye all of this , for this is my blood , but I will not drinke henceforth of this fruit of the vine , these words immediatly follow the other , and of necessity have relation to them : neither can they have relation to any other cup then the Eucharisticall here , and in Saint Marke , because they make mention but of one cup , and that cup whereof Christ said , drinke ye all of this , for this is my blood of the New Testament . This reason alone convinced the conscience of your Learned B. b b Harm . Evang. Afferunt quidam Catholici haec verba non esse dicta a Domino post calicem sacrum , sed post priorem , cuius meminit Lucas , at id non patitur ordo Evang: cum enim Mattheus & Marcus nullius alterius mentionem seccrint praeterquam sacri , quando dicitur ex hoc genimine vitis , nullus alius calix intelligi potest ab ijs demonstratus , quam cuius ipsi meminerunt . Iansenius who thus writeth upon this verse , Some Catholickes saith he , affirme that these words were not spoken of the Lord after he had drunke of the consecrated cup , but after the former , whereof mention is made in Saint Luke . But the order of the Evangelists will not suffer it . For sith Matthew and Marke make mention of no other cup then the consecrated , when it is said by them , of this fruit of the vine , no other cup can be conceived 〈◊〉 be pointed to or demonstrated by them , the●… that cup whereof they make mention . Of the same minde is Titelmanus , whose opinion Barradius the Jesuite relateth and defendeth in his 3. Booke of the Eucharist , c. 5.

2. The Authors alleadged by you to the contrarie doe not weaken the sinewes of my argument , for neither Ierome , nor Bede , nor Theophylact denie these words to be spoken of the consecrated cup , though they allegorize upon them .

3. By following Bellarmine , you and your Chaplaine are fallen into a fowle flow , either you must say you tooke up your quotations upon trust , or els confesse you are a falsificator . For none of these Fathers alleadged by you , either in words or by consequence say that you put upon them , to wit , that the words mentioned in Saint Matthew are to bee understood of the Legall or common cup , Saint c c Cum Iude●… credideri●…e & adduxer●…●…os Pater a●… fidem , tuned●… vino corll bi●… Dommus , ●…i nea transpl●… tata est po●… pulus Israel i●…per Ieremiam Dominus sequitu●… dicit ●…g se Domin●…●…e quaquar●… 〈◊〉 ha●… vined off bib●…srum nisi in regno Patris , regnum Patris fidem intell●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ierome , and d d Vitis est plebs Iudaica , &c. Bede , and e e Non delecta●…or 〈◊〉〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 populi . Anselme have no distinction of two cups , but leaving after their manner the literall sense , expound allegorically the vine to be the people of the Jewes , and the fruit of the vine to be either their beliefe or their legall observances and ceremonies . Theophylact indeed makes mention of two cups , but saith not that the words alleadged by me out of Saint Matthew are to be referred to the legall or common cup mentioned in Saint Luke .

4. You are cast by your owne witnesses , for Ierome , Bede , and Theophylact , referre these words to the blood of Christ , and consequently to the Eucharisticall cup as f f In Mat. c. 26. v. 29. Ierom in comment . Beda , Euthymius & Theophylactus hoc loco ad sanguinem Christi referunt . In Mat. Tract . 25. Potus iste quem Deus verbum sanguinem suum fatetur , est generatio vita verae , & est sanguis uvae illius quae missi in torcular passionis protu●…t potum ●…nc . Paedag l. 2. c. 2. p 116. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Maldonate confesseth , wherein they doe but write after the Copie of the Ancient Fathers .

1. Origen . That drinke which Christ confessed to bee his blood , is the fruit of the true vine , and is the blood of that grape which being put into the wine-presse of his Passion brought forth this drinke , we cannot alone either eat of this bread or drinke of this fruit of the true vine .

2. Clemens Alexandrinus . Christ shewed that it was wine which was blessed , saying , I will not drinke from henceforth of this fruit of the vine .

3. Cyprian . Alleadging the words of Saint Matthew , I will drinke no more of this Ep●…t . 6●… . Qua in par●… in●…us cal ●…em 〈◊〉 suisse 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●…inus . ●…lit , 〈◊〉 vi●…●…sse 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●…guinem suum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . fruit of the vine , addeth , where we finde that the cup was mingled which the L●…d offered , and that it was wine which hee called his blood .

4. Epiphanius fights against the Encratites with the same Com Her. l 〈◊〉 . h●…s . 〈◊〉 . I●… hoc a recto salvatorio sermone vedargu●…ur , quia dicu●… non bibam da fruct●… vitis h●… . weapon wherewith Saint Cyprian foyled the Aquarij . Their Sacraments saith he which are administred in water onely , not wine , are no Sacraments , wherefore they are reprooved by our Saviours owne words , saying , I will not drinke from henceforth of the fruit of the vine .

5. Saint Chrysostome makes the like use of these words of our Saviour against the heretiques in his time , why did he not say water but wine ? to plucke up by the routes another wicked heresie , for seeing that there are some who in the Sacrament use water , he sheweth that when the Lord delivered the Sacrament , he delivered wine In Mat. Ho●…il . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Lucas non narrat historiam suo ordine , sed per anticipationem narrat id quod suo loco Ma●…theus & Marcus narrarunt & quest. Evang. l. 1. c. 42. of the fruit of the vine , saith he , now the vine certainely produceth wine not water .

6. S. Austin in his 3 book of the consent of the Evangelists . c. 1. and elswhere professedly handleth the point of difference betweene you and mee , whether Christ spake these words of the Sacrament after the consecration of the cup , or before , and resolveth it thus , that he spake them after the consecration of the cup , as Saint Matthew and Saint Marke place his words , and whereas you object out of Saint Luke , that they were spoken before , he answereth that S. Luke by anticipation related that which Matthew and Marke relate in their proper place . Which his answer is so pertinent and so full for us , that a a Bellar. l. 1. de Eucha . c 11. Augustinus non perpendit hunc locum diligenter . Bellarmine puts a s●…ur upon this most Learned Father for it , saying , he did not well weigh the place . I thinke the Cardinall rather did not ballance his own words with judgement , in censuring so rashly Gardiner a●… obiect●… . no●… bibam amodò de fruct●… vitis d●…e novum hibero in reguo Dei , regnum Dei licclesi●… est , in qua quotidie bibie sangui●… suum Christus per sanctos suos , tanquam caput in membris ex Eucheri●… In Mat. c. 2●… v. 29 Vitis Iudea vinum Patriarcha●… & Prophet●… 〈◊〉 , &c. sive simpli●…iter ab illa hora caenae non b●… bis vinum que●…sque immortalis factus est & incorruptibi●… lis post resur rectionem . Aut. de ecc●… dog . c. ●…5 & Concil. Wor●… c. 2. Vinum fuit in redemptionis nostrae mysterio , cum dixit non bibam de hoc geni●…ine 〈◊〉 . the prime of all the Latine Doctors .

7. Eucherius Commenting upon these words , till I drinke new wine with you in the kingdome of my Father , saith , the kingdome of God is the Church , in which Christ daily drinketh his blood by his Saints , as the head in the members .

8. Christianus Druthmarus after hee had allegorized upon these words a while , falleth upon the literall interpretation , saying , that from the houre of the Supper he drank no wine till he was made immortall and incorruptible .

9. The Author de Eccles. dogmat . and the Councell of Wormes say categorically and expressely , that wine was in the mysterie of our redemption , when Christ said I will drinke no more of the fruit of the vine .

10. Innocentius Bishop of Rome , a great stickler for your carnall presence , and the Godfather if I may so speake of Transubstantiation , who christned it in the Councell of Lateran , yet in the exposition of this place dissenteth from you , and consenteth with all the Ancient Fathers , Greeke and Latine 〈◊〉 . 4. dr my●…t . missae . c. 27. quod autem vinum in calice consecraverat pa●… ex eo ●…od ipse subiunxit , non biba●… amodò de 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . above alleadged , saying , it is manifest Christ consecrated wine in the cup by those words which he added , I will not drinke from henceforth of the fruit of the vine .

Yea but your Chaplaine S. E. wisely admonisheth me , that the Councell of Wormes and Innocentius , howsoever in the exposition of this place , they joyne with us yet that they were thorough Papists . The stronger say I their testimonie against you , and a greater presumption of the evidence of truth on our sides which extorteth such a confession from our greatest opposites .

PAR. 16.

Of the Bishops Chaplaine and Champion S. E. his cowardly Tergiversation , base Adulation , shamelesse Calumniation , and senselesse Scurrilitie .

BY this time you see cause enough why in the forefront of my letter , I wish you a better cause : I am now in the third and last place to assigne you the reasons why I wish you a better Advocate .

These are in summe foure , viz. S. E. his

1. Cowardly Tergiversation . 2. Base Adulation . 3. Shamelesse Calumniation . 4. Childish subsannation and senselesse Scurrilitie .

a a Nat hist. 2. c. 44. In Olympia por●…icus fui●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ita ●…nstructa ut ●…icam ad 〈◊〉 mul●…s 〈◊〉 , ●…icta 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , ●…u sepiupla Plynie writeth that in the porch of 1. Tergiversa●…ion . Olympia the same voice is seven times repeated by an Eccho , such is the relation of S. E. wherein for answer to my seven arguments in seven Sections , he returnes your voice , and reiterates your dist●…ctions and evasions seven times at least , I am perswaded that he hath by this time got your answers by heart , he hath conned them over so often . It should seeme that at Doway they professe an eighth liberall Science called Battologie . As for perfecting your Lordships answers where they were lanke and defective he seemeth to have made scruple of conscience thereof , least being but your second he should goe before you in any thing . Wherein he shewes ●…iadorus Si●…lus . l. 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . himselfe as good a servant to your Lordship , as the antient blacke-moores shewed themselves subjects to their Prince , who if hee were maimed in any part of his body , they maimed themselves in that part , because they thought it unseemely that any subject should be a more proper man or compleate then his King . Among many instances of his halting together with you in your lame answers , I note three which are most notorious and obuious to every vulgar eye .

1. In answer to my first argument to proove the words of institution to bee tr●…picall or figurative out of Tertullian , y●… p. 28 , 29. & seq. either ignorantly or wilfully mistake a type for a trope , and a reall figure , such as were the legall rites for a figure in words or rhetoricall ornament of speech and tell us of a meere figure , and of a figure which hath verity joyned with it , as when a King in tryumph sheweth how hee did behave himselfe in the warre . S. E. runs away with this errour , through many Pages and Sections , and when hee is out of breath , p. 57. leaves the Reader to subsume , that if the distinction be not good of a figure and a meere figure , that either the Son of God whom the Scripture calleth the figure of his Fathers substance is a meere figure void of being , God without divinity , or that he is a meere fiction , and againe , p. 58. A signe , image , or figure , is not necessarily void of being , as you conceive a shadow to be . Sacraments are signes and have some being , man is an image of God , yet a substance , the Sonne of God according to Saint Paul is the figure of his Fathers Heb. 1. 3. substance ( he should say image of his person ) but not an empty figure , unlesse that be empty which hath in it a a whole infinitie of perfection . Quid ad Rombum ? what s this to my argument , ego disputo de alijs ille respondet de Eras. Adag . cepis , I dispute of tropes , he answers of types , I dispute of words , he answers of things : I dispute of Metaphors or Metonomies , he answers of images and Sacraments . Is Christ I pray you a trope ? is man a figure in Rhetoricke ? are the Sacraments Metonomies ? is a King acting his owne tryumphs a Metaphor or an Allegorie ? if you are ashamed to say so , bee then ashamed of your and your Chaplaines shifting evasions in your answer to my first argument .

When in answer to my second argument taken out of Saint Austins third 2. booke , de doctrina Christiana , you said that the speech of our Saviour , Iohn the P. 67. 6. Vnlesse you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man , you have no life in you , is according to Saint Augustine mixt of a proper and a figurative speech , and I replied upon you , that it is most certaine that Saint Austin in that place by figurate locutio , ment such a one as could in no Ibid. de dec . Chris l. 3. c. 16. Si hoc iam propri●… sonat , nulla putetur figurata locutio . sense be proper , for S. Austins words are , if this now be taken in the proper sense , let it be accounted no figurative speech . Besides he speaketh of such a speech wherein an horrible wickednesse is commanded or a verteous action prohibited , which can in no sense bee true in the proper acception of the words : Otherwise it should be lawfull to sin because expressely commanded , and sinfull to doe well , because forbidden . To this replie he rejoynes negry quidem .

When in refutation of your answer 3. to my argument , drawne from the pronoune this in the words of the institution , whereby you will have understood this bread transubstantiated into my body : I inferred this consequence thereupon , that the words of Consecration make nothing for Transubstantiation P. 300. or any thing els . For a proposition that is meerely identicall , quoad significatum proves nothing at all . I may truly say , pointing to Christs body in heaven at the right hand of his Father , this or that body of Christ is his body , and will it hence follow , that bread or any thing els is substantially turned into Christs body ? your Chaplaine answers no , but something els , how els could your mouth utter such an impertinent discourse , with which words hee concludes the fift Section . And thus as when Philip of Macedon walked in state , Clisophus his flatterer comes in strutting after him , and when afterwards Philips thigh was run thorough so that hee halted downe-right , in comes Clisophus limping after him in the like manner : so where you are confident in your answer , S. E. is peremptorie , where you are profuse , he is redundant , where you are imperfect , he is defective , where you are lame , he halteth downe-right .

The best is , what he is faultie in his 2. Adulation . answers , hee mends in his encomiums , and where he is defective in Argumentation , he supplies it to the full with flattery Numero 179. Cato obieci●… Fulvio . Nobiliori quod milites per ambition●…m donaret coronis , levissimis de cansis , nempe quia vallum curavissent , 〈◊〉 ●…um strenue fodissem , quis inquit Cato v●…dit quenquam donari coro●…d cum oppidum no●… esset captum , au●… incensa hostium castra Gellius ●…tic . l. 5●… and Adulation . Erodius in his book de Iure Armorum , teacheth that none by the law of the Romanesmight have a millitarie garland given him , but upon some noble exploit done by him , as scaling the walls of a Cittie , or firing the enemies Tents , or the like . And therefore w●… reade in Aulus Gellius , that Marc●… Cato that Romane Worthie , framed a bill of indictment against Fulvius Nobilior , for rewarding his souldiers with garlands upon light occasions , and for meane services , as for looking to their fence , for digging a well strenuously . A like bill of indictement I might put in against S. E. for crowning you with a garland for doing no noble exploit at all , but onely holding up your buckler most valiantly . I referre my selfe for proofe hereof to his owne words wherewith hee endeth P , 19●… his Pamphlet , I should say his Pagent . So my Lord ( saith he ) though hee were not permitted once to put an argument , nor so much as to shew the grounds of our tenet ; using the buckler onely , and never suffered for to draw the sword , got the field , and bore away the prize . A noble prize no doubt

Egregiam verò laudem & spolia ampla refertis tuque puerque tuus .

A remarkable victory , and rich spoiles , Eras. Adag ▪ Sa m●…cida spolia sine sanguine & sud●… . like those at Salmacis gotten without shedding a drop of blood or sweat . If C●…esiphon had met with no better an Advocate before the Judges , that sate in Ar●…opaous at Athens , he had certainely lost his Crowne , the best flower whereof was * * Demost. ●…rat . de co●…ena . Demosthenes his eloquence : yet as he ends , so he begins this his Panegyrick rather then Apologie : as his last , so his first dishes after the French manner , are larded with your praises in such a fulsome manner , that I wonder your Lordships stomacke could brooke them . This Conference being short , I presently read it over , and liked so well some fragments P. 3. of my Lords answers which the Minister hath imparted , that I desired to see the whole : but could not then get a copie . Having lighted now at length on a Latine one , and liking it exceeding well , P. 4. I thought good to translate it , and impart it to others by the print . And could the Reader have beene a spectator , and seene P. 189. this action in the life , he would have acknowledged what M. Knevet hereupon did confesse , that M. Featley was too young for D. Smith . He is many waies to weake to undertake so great a wit , so ready in answer , so strong in argument , so conversant in Scripture , Fathers , Divines , Much lesse ( what ever out-recuidance makes him thinke of his ability ) is hee able to over-match an understanding so full of light , so ample , so vigorous , excellently furnished with all variety of learning Davus ne ●…oquitur an herus , who is the speaker you , or your servant ? if S. E. bee your Chaplaine as his every where exhibiting unto you more then ordinary reverence should implie ; I will be bold to tell him that he is sometimes very saucie with you , to spend his judgement upon your answers in such sort as he doth . It may be the Bishops P. 3 , 4. of Chalcedons Chaplaines use such familiarity with their Lords : but assuredly the Chaplaines to the Ordinaries of England know better their distance . But if as we know that Matheus Tortus is Cardinall Bellarmine , and Doleman is Father Parsons , and Marcus Antonius Constantius is Steven Gardiner , so S. E. is Smithus Episcopus , then I am sorrie to see a Reverend Prelate so endeared to the Pope , and Cardinall Brandinus to be driven to this exigent , for want of a Herauld to blazon his owne armes and trumpet out his owne titles and praises . Yet I marvell not at it , because Chalcedon is very remote , and farre from good neighbours . Howsoever , whether it be hee or you , Edward Stratford , or Episcopus Smithus , it mattereth not much , domesticum testimonium is of little force in this case , it will add no more to you then it can detract from me . For love looketh through that end of the perspective glasse , which maketh the object seeme bigger : but hatred through that end which maketh it seeme lesse then in truth it is . Be it 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , selfe flattery , or servile flatterie , I passe by it , but I cannot so lightly passe the shamelesse slanders which I finde in this pamphlet cast by S. E. upon the dead and the living .

That you may be a Chevalter de gloire and a renowned conquerour , M Knevet 3. Calumniation must be your prize and die at Venice a Proselyte . For so S. E. your Herauld proclaimes to the world . M. Knevet upon the Ministers poore carriage in the P. 191. dispute and Tergiversation , afterwards when he should have answered , disliked the Protestants cause ( which hee saw their Champion could not make good with argument in the presence of a Scholler , not durst face to face appeare to defend it ) and soone afterwards was reconciled to the Church , and at Venice died a Catholike . In this whole passage there is not a word true in your sense , but onely that M. Knevet died at Venice , if hee were reconciled to your Romish Church , and died a Papist , name me the Priest who reconciled him , and on his death bed annealed him , and after his death buried him with your Romish rites , and bring some good proofe and testimonie hereof , to cleare your Chaplaine from the fowle imputation of belying the dead . Verily of all fowle we most hate and detest the crowes , and of all beasts the A kinde of Foxes in Barbarie . Iackalls , because the one diggs up the graves , and devoureth the flesh , the other picketh out the eyes of the dead . Had M. Knevet after he left France and travelled into Italy , when hee was out of hearing the divine harpe of Orpheus , I meane the preaching of the Gospell , beene enchaunted with your Syren song●… , I should have more grieved then marveiled at it : he being a young Gentleman of a facile and affable disposition , and not deeply learned . But the truth is , he was constant in the truth of his Religion to his last breath , and as the Lord Knevet and other of his alliance , and M. Russell and other of his acquaintance at Venice can testifie , he crowned his other good parts and graces with perseverance in the Orthodox faith to the end . Howbeit because Venice is farre off , and M. Knevet being dead cannot speake for himselfe , your Knight of the post S. E. thought he might securely by an officious lie , tending so much to your reputation , and credit of the Catholique cause indeare himselfe to your Lordship . For he knew well mortui non mordent & Nulli gravis est percussus Achilles . But certainely as he there forfeiteth his honestie , so hee forfeited his wits also , when p. 23. with a forehead ( made o●… the same brasse whereof the images are he daily worshippeth ) he affirmes in print , that since our Conference at Paris in England it selfe twise to his knowledge I refused to meete your Lordship in dispute . For who will beleeve that your Lordship whom your very a a Lib. praesid . Benedictinorum quem ●…es habent pr●… doctissimo prudentissi●…oq̄ magis●…o . enemies acknowledge to be endewed with a very great measure of wisedome , could be so carelesse of your selfe as comming into England with faculties from the Pope , and thereby incurring the penalty of the lawes , that touched not onely your Miter , but your head , to send two challenges to the Arch-Bishops Chaplaine in house , to meet you at a disputation , especially after you heard that there were two Proclamations out for your apprehension . No Sir , 't is well knowne , that when you were in England you played least in sight and concealed your selfe not onely from Protestants , but from those l p●…sid . Benedict p. 94 ●…n Anglia ad Episcop●…m & e●…s Vic●…vios difficillimus est accessus , ●…m ipsi se ca●…ssimè occ●…enr & p 124. nec potest ad●…i Chalcedonensis sine probabil●… per●…lo carceris , mor●…is , exilij , a●… gravis molestiae , & ta●…s ips●… quam Vicarij eiu●… m●… persecuti●… laten●… . who were most addicted to your Romish religion whereof they complaine in print . In England say they it is a very hard matter to have accesse to the Bishop and his Vicars , because they most warily hide themselves , and againe the Bishop of Chalcedon cannot be spoken withall without probable danger of imprisonment , death , banishment or grievous trouble , and as well himselfe as his Vicars lurk for feare of persecution .

As for my declining a second meeting with you in France , which you upbraid me with , p. 180. usque 188. the indiffident Reader even by your own relation will perceive , that the feare and difference whi●…h hindred the second meeting was on your part , and not on mine , for as your selfe relate , p. 184. I sent word by M. Knevet to you , that I would be ready to meete you the next weeke upon condition , a day might be allowed me to prosecute the rest of my arguments , and againe , p. 186. hea●…ing of your purpose to leave Paris , on the Friday following I sent to you the Munday before word by M. Knevet , that I would meete with you upon Tuesday , on condition that I might have leave first to propose all the rest of my arguments which you refused to give way unto .

You felt the smart of our weapons in the first conflict , in such sort , that you would not meete the second time , unlesse I put in good security that I would not so much as draw upon you or shew you my weapons .

Yea but say you 't is evident I declined the conflict by my owne words to P. 187. one of my friends , whom I told that Catholickes brought so many testimonies of Fathers , to prove the reall presence , that there was need of many weekes to reade them over . And over against the words many testimonies you quote in the Margent . Trait●…è du S. Sacrament P. 188. ●…rat P. Ma. ●…oel . In quo ●…on mod●…●…imen non ●…rebat sed ●…ix diserti ●…olescentis ●…haerebat ●…atio . de l'Eucharistie , par l'illust●… Cardinal deu Perron . Paris 1622.

I answer as Tully doth for Coelius , that there is little coherence , and much lesse verity in this objection : this calumnie like a bubble dissolveth it selfe . 'T is well knowne I never tearme you Catholicks , but Papists , neither could the many testimonies alleadged by Cardinall Perron for the r●…all presence deterre me from a second encounter with you in the mo●…th of September , Anno 1612. for that booke of Perron , as you your selfe note , was printed in the yeare 1622. so that to make your relation true , I must needs have had some speciall revelation , that the above named Cardinall ten yeares , after would print a booke of the Sacrament so fraught with Testimonies of the Fathers , that there needed many weekes to reade them . Yet farther to convince you , that I feared not to supply the place of a Respondent in this very question , notwithstanding all that Bellarmine , and Perron , and Co●…ceus or Garetius alleadge out of the Fathers for your carnall presence : a few w●…ckes after our Conference , I encountred D. Bagshaw at Paris , and since M. ●…sher , and M. Musket . and D. Egleston , and M. Wood ●…e t●…e Cō 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 t●…e App●… dix 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 sher cau●… in his ow●… net . in England , and answered all they could alleadge out of Scriptures or Fathers in this point . Neither hath any of them as yet impeached any of my answers extant in print now this 12. yeares . Which happinesse I ascribe to the evidence of truth on our side , and not to any the least opinion of sufficiencie in my selfe , who have ever studied that golden Text of the Apostle , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 .

The greater wrong doth ●…our Gnatho offer me in facing downe his Reader , P 10 & 190. that in a challenge to Fisher the Jesuite I compare my selfe to a Lion and him to a butterflie , saying ,

Their strength with bulls let Lions trie In tauro●… lybici rua●… l●…nes ne sint papiliouibus ●…olesti . and not persue the butterflie .

And he addeth in the Margent Featly of himselfe in his sacriledge . It seemeth to me that S. E. having learned out of Saint Austin that there is a threefold lie , l. de menda●… . 1. Officiosum an officious . 2. Pernitiosum or malitiosum a malicious . 3. Iocosum and a merry lie or lie in jest . He thought himselfe obliged to make use of all three in his masters service , his officious and malitious lies , wee have heard before , now he puts his wits to it to frame a jocosum mendacium , to make himselfe and his Reader merry : but having no occasion of any such jest from any words of mine , hee breakes not a jest upon me , but sheweth himselfe absurd and ridicu●…ous . For the words I alleadge out of Martiall , are not spoken in the singular but in the plurall number , nor of my selfe but others . If he hath not lost his sight together with his wit , he might have seene a relation in the Margent to a booke of Fishers , set out in the yeare 1626. in which he takes upon him to refute a Treatise of the Visibility of the Church , put forth by George Abbot Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterburie , and a Sermon of D Ushers Lord Arch-Bishop of Armath , and a replie of D. White Lord Bishop of Elic . These Lions I wisht in the Poets phrase to fall upon the bulls , meaning the Popes bulls , and not look after that sillie butterflie , Fishers sorrie pamphlet intituled sundry relations , This S. E. knew well enough to be my meaning , but hee was disposed to play with the Lions paw , ex Vngue ( saith P. 〈◊〉 . he ) you may gather what a thing the Lion is : not minding what Iunius out of 〈◊〉 ●…as . in embler●… . Aelian observeth , that if the Lion he any way distempered or diseased , he makes himselfe whole upon the Apc. To verifie which emblem , what mops and mowes doth he make , with what Apish imitation and ridiculous scurrilitie doth hee sport his Reader , saying , that I brought P. 190. my arguments written in paper , and urged them so ( poorely ) that M. Porie did prompt P. 141. & 142. him divers times . And hereafter Universities must all neglect art in speech , and reade your predicament , which before times hath beene Featleus homo animal vivens corpus substantia , thus in English , accorto your Logicke , Featley , Featley , Featley , Featley , Featley , Featley , where you the supreme genus of your new predicament are in predication to be common to other animals , bodies and substances , for so the supreme genus must be . I could have answered these insulsos sales with a mycterisme , but because Salomon adviseth sometimes to answer a foole least he b●…e too proud of his art or skill : let therfore S. E. your Iester ( I should say your Chaplaine ) tell me by what rule of Doway Logicke doth this follow , M. F. disliketh D. Smith his exposition this is my body , that is , this bread transubstantiated into my body , is my body , because it implieth a meere Tautologie , affirming idem numero de eodem numero , Ergo he overthroweth all the predicamentall classes . In this proposition this my body is my body , the predication is neither generis de specie , nor speciei de individuo , nor accidentis de subjecto , but ejusdem rei numero de eadem numero : the subjectum and praedicatum are both idem re & ratione , and therfore such an identicall proposition may be remooved and casheered out of Logick , without any disturbing of the predicamentall rankes or files . And that hee may farther know that I have climbed up Porphyrie his predicamentall tree as well as hee , I will make in it a bower or two for him and his fellowes to shade themselves under them .

Vide arborem .

Place this before folio 229.

Vtram harum mauis accipe

Μσ̄ορος

Ed: St: Jo: Hig : Jo: Fl. Pithecus Simia Caudata absque cauda Brutum Ferum Cicur Animal Rationale Irrationale

ρα●●ος

Ed: St: Io: Hig : Io: Fl : Scurra Dicax Facetus Infacetus mendax Serius Iocosus maledicus ueriloquus falsiloquus

PAR. 17.

A serious exhortation to D. Smith otherwise Bishop of Chalcedon to returne home to his dearest mother the Church of England , and famous Nurse the Vniversity of Oxford .

THus leaving your Chaplaine in a bad predicamens , I returne to your Advers. D. m●… . T is sa ipso lic●… exitis & vit temporalis e cessis pro a lictis rog●…s Deum : ad immortali●… tem sub ip morte tra●… tur . selfe : and let me be bold to speake to you in the words of the blessed Martyr Saint Cyprian , win the day in the edge of the evening , enter yet into the Lords vineyard though at the eleventh houre . You were an ancient Doctor of Divinity , when I conferred with you at Paris 22. yeares agoe , and therefore now you cannot in reason but thinke of the day of your dissolution , and in Religion also , of making your accounts ready , which you Luke 16. 2. Redd●… ratione vil●… tionis t●… . know ere long will be called for from you . How will you dare to appeare before him who is the Way , the Truth , and the Life , if you continue still perverting his Way , impugning his Truth , & therby depriving your selfe and others of his Life ? O that I might be so happie as Iason was , with my darts to open your aposteme and wound you into health , and by arguments to confute you into heaven . Take ( I desire you ) this occasion ( of replying to my answers ) to retrive your former thoughts , and to examine upon what grounds you left both your deerest Mother the Church of England , and your famous Nurse the University of Oxford . Enter into a serious consideration what an ill change you have made of home for banishment , of security for danger , of allegiance for disloyalty , of truth for errour , of Scripture doctrine for traditions and legendarie fables , of Religion for Superstition , of the pure worship of God in Spirit for manifold Idolatry , of Jerusalem for Babylon , of Christ for Antichrist : and the Lord of his infinite mercy annoint your eyes with the eye-salve of the Spirit , that you may poc . 3. 18. see your errors before you go hence and be no more seene .

August 31. 1634. Yours as farre as you are Christs , D. F.

The true Relation of a Disputation betweene M. Featley and D. Bagshaw , drawne out of the notes of M. Ashley , and M. Ezekiel Arscot , taken in the Conference at Paris , Anno Dom. 1612.

MAster Featley demanding of D. Bagshaw whether hee would joyne in prayer with him , and the other refusing , made a short prayer to himselfe , and after he had ended it , began the Disputation as followeth .

M. F.

The Question we are to debate to give satisfaction to this Honourable a a There were present , the L. Clifford , Sir Edward Summerset , and divers other persons of grea●… quality bot●… English and French . Assembly is , Whether the Body of Christ be truly , really , and substantially contained in the Sacrament under the formes of bread and wine , as the Councell of Trent defineth . Which is a question of greatest importance : for if the Body of Christ be not there really and substantially , the Church of Rome which adoreth the Host , committeth Idolatry in the highest degree , by attributing * * Divine honour or the highest degree of worship proper to God alone . cultum latriae to a piece of bread . And that the Body of Christ is not there in such sort as the Councell determineth , and the whole Church of Rome beleeveth , I will prove by necessary arguments drawne from the words of the institution , the doctrine and practise of the ancient Church , and the very principles of nature , and infallible grounds of Reason , Saint Paul fully setteth downe the institution of the Sacrament . I have received of the Lord ( saith he ) that which I also 1 Cor. 11. 23 , 24 , 25 , 26. have delivered unto you , to wit , that the Lord Iesus in the night that he was betraied , tooke bread . And when hee had given 24. thankes , he brake it , and said , Take , eate : This is my Body , which is broken for you : this doe ye in remembrance of me . After the same manner also he took the cup , when 25. he had supped , saying , this cup is the New Testament in my blood : this doe as oft as ye drinke it , in remembrance of me . For as often as ye shall eate this breaed , and drinke 26. this cup , ye shew the Lords death till hee come . In this faithfull relation of the Apostle many things are very remarkable . First , our Saviour spake to his Disciples in a knowne tongue : you to the Communicants in an unknowne : Christ took bread and brake it : you breake no bread at all . Christ after hee had broken the bread , took the cup and gave it likewise to all the Communicants : you b b Gratian de consecrat . dist. 2 cap. caperimus aut integra Sacramunta percipiant aut ab integris arceantur , quia divisio unius aiusdē●… m●…sterij sine grands sacrilegio non potest prov●…ire . Gelasius papa . Ver. 20. sacrilegiously mutilate the Sacrament , and debarre the Laity of the cup. Christ used no elevation at all , neither did his Disciples adore the Sacrament : you practise both . Lastly , Christ when hee said eate and drinke , truly reached the bread and cup to all which were present and thereby celebrated a Supper : you use the same words , eate and drinke you all of this : and yet eate and drinke all your selves . And call you this inviting Gods people to a Supper where you eate up all and they feed nothing but their eyes ?

D. Bagshaw .

You promised to dispute ( M. Featley ) you do but discourse .

M. Featley .

Thus I frame my argument . Christ in these words , This is my Body , 1 Argu. called bread his body ( for hee tooke bread , and brake it , and said , take , eate this pointing to the bread : ) but bread cannot be called Christs body properly , therefore you must needs acknowledge there is a figure in these words , and by consequence they make not for , much lesse make any Transubstantiation of bread into Christs body .

D. B.

I denie your Major . Christ in these words , This is my Body , calleth not bread his body .

M. F.

c c l ▪ 3. contra Marcionem c. 19. sic Deus quoque in Evangelio vestro revelavit panem corpus suum appellans , 〈◊〉 hinc iam eum intelligas corporis sui si guram pani dedisse . Tertullian saith he doth . So God revealed in your Gospell calling bread his body . d d Theod. dial . mutabilis . p. 30. versione Ge●…ani Pontificij edit . Basil. In mysteriorum traditione panem corpus suum appellavit . Et Servator nomina mutavit , & corpori quidem id quod erat symboli ac signi nomen imposuit , symbolo autem quod erat corporis . Theodoret affirmeth the same in words most expressely Orth : In the delivering of the mysteries hee called bread his body . And a little after . Our Saviour changed the names , imposing the name of the Signe or Symbole upon his body : and the name of his body upon the Signe or Symbole .

D. B.

Tertullian speaketh of that which was bread in the old Law , but now is Christsbody . For in the words before he alleadgeth Jeremie , mittamus lignum in panem ejus , let us cast wood on his bread , Theodoret is not of great credit , because he favoured sometimes the heresie of Nestorius .

M. F.

If Theodoret sometimes favoured any heresie , that can be no just exception against this passage of Theodoret , taken out of those bookes of his which have alwaies beene approved for Orthodoxall even by your own Church . Your answer to Tertullian neither satisfieth the place , nor avoideth my argument , for he proveth not onely by the words of Ieremy in the Old Testament , but of Christs also in the Gospell , the bread was and is a figure of Christs body . His argument standeth thus : Christ by the Prophet Ieremie called his body bread e e Tertul. l. 〈◊〉 c. 40 ex-Pounding the same words . Conijcia●… lignum in panem eius , id est , cr●… in corpus eius . let us cast wood on his bread , that is , the Crosse on his body . And in the Gospell bread his body , Ergo bread was and is a true figure of his body . I insist not upon Tertullians allegation out of Ieremy , but upon his explication of the words of the institution in the f f Dominus 〈◊〉 Evangelio panem corpus appellam . Gospell . The Lord in the Gospell called bread his body . And to the like purpose he g g Tertul. l. 4●… c. 20. accep●… panem , & distributum , corpus suum fecit ; hoc est corpus meum dicen●… , id est sigura corporis mei , & seq. our panem corpus suum appellas ? speaketh . The bread taken and distributed unto his Disciples , he made it his body , saying , This is my body , that is , a figure of my body . A little after he propoundeth this question , why doth he call bread his body . Out of which places I thus argue against your answer . Tertullian saith that h h Dominus in Evangelio . Christ in the Gospell called the bread which he brake and distributed unto his Disciples , his body : and therefore hee speaketh not of that which was bread in the old Law and you suppose to bee Christs body in the new , but of that which was very bread then , when hee called it his body : But I inferre that which is truly bread , cannot be properly called Christs body , Ergo you must reject Tertullian , or admit of a figure .

D. B.

Prove that bread cannot properly be called Christs Body .

M. F.

No disparata can be properly affirmed one of the other .

Bread and Christs body are disparata . Ergo

The one of them cannot properly be affirmed one of the other .

D. B.

Panis & corpus Christi are not disparata , because they are not sub eodem genere .

M. F.

Nay for that very reason rather , they are disparata , because they are not sub eodem genere . The especiall difference betweene Contraria and Disparata is , that contraria are sub eodem genere proximo , disparata may be sub diversis as homo & lapis , corpus Christi & panis , the one sub corpore animato , the other sub inanimato .

D. B.

You ground your faith upon Scriptures not upon Fathers , therefore we expect other arguments from you then such as these .

M. F.

But you ground your faith not upon Scriptures onely , but upon the traditive doctrine of Fathers , and therefore wee expect from you better answers then these to the Fathers . You beare the world in hand that all the Fathers are yours , and yet when it comes to the triall dare not stand to their authority , but flie to the Scriptures which give you no countenance at all , but rather check your errors .

D. B.

Shew me in Scripture , where Christ called bread his body , or els you doe but trifle out the time .

M F

In the 1 of Cor. 11. v. 24. This is my body which is broken for you .

D B.

Conclude your proposition from these words .

M. F.

Thus I inferre i●… .

That Christ called his body which he said was then broken for us ( this is my body which is broken )

But that which was there broken was bread & nothing but bread .

Ergo he called bread his body .

D. B.

I denie your assumption , Christs true body was then broken .

M. F.

You meane I hope non rei veritate sed significante mysterio , not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mystery , as your Canon law distinguisheth .

D. B.

Significante mysterio that's significante mendacio .

M. F.

What is every mysterie a lie with you ? doth not your speech rather deserve the name of significans mendacium , a signall untruth , then Saint Austins , cited by i i Gra. de consect . dist. 2 cap. Immolatio carnis Christi quae sacerdotis manibus sit vocatur Christi passio , mors , crucifixio , non rei veritate sed significante mysterio . Gratian ? answer directly : say you Christs body is truly and really broken in the proper acception of the word ? if not so , then you must acknowledge a figure in the word frangitur : if you say that Christs body is truly and really broken in the proper acception of the word , you gainesay the Scripture and go against your owne beliefe .

D. B.

Christs body is truly broken , for he saith so , which is broken .

M. F.

Christs body was whole when he administred the Sacraments , therefore it was not broken .

D. B.

It was whole in se , but broken sub speciebus .

M. F.

That which is whole and entire sub speciebus is not broken sub speciebus . Christs body according to the Canons of the Councell of Trent is whole , sub speciebus and in qualibet parte specierum , and is entirely eaten of every Communicant , Ergo it is not broken sub speciebus .

D. B.

Your Maior is true , respectu ejusdem , not otherwise .

M. F.

Whrt meane you by respectu ejusdem ? ejusdem substantiae , or ejusdem accidentis ?

D. B.

I say Christs body which is whole in se sub speciebus , is not broken in se sub speciebus , but alio respectu .

M. F.

The species or accidents are not Christs body , neither can they be broken truly and properly , especially being without a subject as you hold they are in the Sacrament : therefore if Christs body be truly broken sub speciebus , as you affirme , it must needs be broken in s●… , and so your distinction stands you in no stead .

D. B.

Be it broken in se , but sub speciebus .

M. F.

Now you confound the members of your owne distinction . I need not to contradict you , you contradict your selfe fast enough . Answer this argument I pray directly .

That which is whole in se sub speciebus is not broken in se sub speciebus at the same time .

But the Body of Christ is whole in se sub speciebus , for whosoever receives the body of Christ sub speciebus , receives it wholy and entirely and cannot doe otherwise , because Christ as your Church teacheth us , is totus in toto , and totus in qualibet parte hostis .

Therefore Christs body is not broken in se sub speciebus .

D. B.

I denie your Major .

M. F.

If the Major be false , the concontradictorie thereof must needs be true , which is this , that which is whole in se sub speciebus , is broken in se sub speciebus at one and the same time .

Let this Proposition of M. D. Bagshawes be written . That which is whole in se sub speciebus , at one and the selle same time , is broken in se sub speciebus , a flat contradiction .

After this proposition was taken in writing by M , Arscot , and M. Ashly , M. Featley proceeded to a new argument .

M. F.

The words used in the consecration of the cup are figurative , therefore 2 Argu. no ground in them for your reall presence of Christs blood in the cup.

D. B.

They are not figurative but proper .

M. F.

These are the words . This cup is the New Testament in my blood , but these cannot be expounded but by a double figure : Ergo the words of the institution concerning the cup are figurative .

D. B.

They are not the words of the institution .

M. F.

S. Luke Chap. 22. v. 20. and Saint Paul relate them for the words of the Institution , will you disparage them as you did Gratian and S. Austin before ?

D. B.

S. Matthew and S. Marke have other words , hic est sanguis , &c. This is the blood of the New Testament .

M. F.

Others in sound , not in sense . All Christians are bound under the paine of damnation to beleeve that all the Evangelists who were inspired by the Holy Ghost , have faithfully set downe Christs speeches and actions . S. Luke and Saint Paul affirme that Christ used these words , dare you impeach their authority ?

D. B.

Admit these be the words of the institution you gaine not your figure .

M. F.

Yes , a double one , one in Calix , another in Testamentum . We drink not properly the cup , neither is that which we drinke in the cup properly Christs Testament .

D. B.

I denie both .

M. F.

What ? is 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or Calix properly that which we drinke , write this proposition downe also . Calix or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is properly that which we drinke , a man drinks downe a stone pot or silver chalice . How say you M. D. Stevens , is there not a Metonymie in Calix , to wit , continens pro contento ? I take it you granted it on Saturday last , as did also D Smith in my disputation with him ( D. Stevens ingenuously here confessed as much , and said he would maintaine it . ) I leave D. Stevens to confute you M. D. Bagshaw , touching the cup. I proove there is a figure in Testamentum . Either there is a figure in Testamentum , or that which is contained in the Chalice is propriè Testamentum , Christs last will : but that which is contained in the Chalice is not propriè Testamentum , or Christs will or Testament , Ergo there is a figure in the word Testamentum .

D. B.

It is properly a Testament .

M. F.

I proove the contrarie : Christ made his Testament at his last Supper as you grant , but hee made not then his blood , his blood therefore is not his Testament .

D. B.

He made his blood at his last Supper .

M. F.

Write this downe also . Christ made his blood at his last Supper . Was not his blood made and in his veines before ?

D. B.

It was : but till then he made it not potable .

M. F.

To make a thing potable , is not to make it blood . If his blood were his Testament which hee made at his last Supper , it followeth that hee made it then truly as he made his Testament truly . But to goe on forward directly against your answer , Christ made not his blood potable at his last Supper .

That he made potable ( if hee mad●… any thing potable at his last Supper ) which he put in and powred out of the Chalice .

But that was not his blood .

Ergo he made not his blood potable at his last Supper .

D. B.

It was his very blood .

M. F.

His very blood therefore was then truly shed .

D. B.

What of that ?

M. F.

Therefore your sacrifice of the Masse which your Church acknowledgeth to be incruentum unbloody is truly bloody .

D. B.

How doth this follow ?

M. F.

Most clearely and evidently as you may see in this Syllogisme .

That sacrifice in which blood is truly shed , is truly blood .

But in the sacrifice of the Masse ( as you have already granted me ) the blood of Christ is truly shed and powred out .

Ergo your sacrifice of the Masse is truly a bloody sacrifice .

D. B.

Your Major is not currant , unlesse you add thereunto externally .

M. F.

As if a man could not truly bleed inwardly , my conclusion is not , the sacrifice of the Masse is a bloody sacrifice externally , or visibly , but truly , which is sufficiently inferred out of the premises without your addition . For certainely blood truly shed and sacrificed , makes a truly bloody sacrifice .

D. B.

I told you before blood could not be truly shed unlesse it were externally shed .

M. F.

And did not I also tell you of a veine bleeding inwardly .

D. B.

Though the veine bleed inwardly , that is within the body , yet the blood commeth out of the veine .

M. F.

And so must Christs blood also if it be truly powred out : for fusio is motio , and effusio is extra fusio , therefore if Christs blood be truly powred out , it must needs run out of his veines .

D. B.

Every naturall effusion is a motion , but this is a supernaturall effusion .

M. F.

Every effusion is essentially a motion , if it be a naturall effusion , it is a naturall motion , if a supernaturall effusion a supernaturall motion .

D. B.

I admit of a supernaturall motion .

M. F.

Therfore you admit of a passing of Christs blood from one place to another , which cannot be as long as it remaines in his veines .

D. B.

Why so ? cannot Christs blood be powred out of the cup , unlesse it stirre out of his veines ?

M. F.

Not possibly , unlesse you will say the flesh and bones are powred out together with it , and by a consequence that you drink properly flesh and bones in the chalice which I thus demonstrate .

All that is in the Chalice you truly and properly drinke .

But the veines , flesh , and bones of Christ you grant are in the Chalice , by saying that the blood is there in the veines .

Ergo you drinke properly flesh and bones .

D. B.

These are grosse and Capernaiticall arguments , unworthy to be urged by Christians .

M. F.

Sir , speake in your conscience , whither you thinke we come nearer to the Capernaits , who teach a spirituall eating of Christ by faith , according to those words of our Saviour , My words are spirit and life , or you who teach a carnall eating of him with the mouth and teeth ? was not this the very errour of the Capernaites ?

D. B.

Nothing lesse : for the Capernaites supposed Christs flesh should have been cut and quartered and sold in the market .

M. F.

This is your grosse fancie of the Capernaits error , the Scripture chargeth them with no other error , but such as arose from the misconstruction of Christs words , unlesse you eate my flesh , which they understood according to the letter that killeth , not according to the spirit which quickneth . Now the letter of these words implieth no such thing as cutting or selling Christs flesh in the shambles : only it importeth a reall and proper eating , which consisteth in taking flesh into the mouth , chamming of it , and swallowing it downe the throat into the stomack . All this you doe , are you not then true Capernaites ?

D. B.

For shame leave these idle and foolish collections of yours .

M. F.

I should easily returne the like speeches upon you , but I feare to abuse the patience of this Honourable Assembly , through our impatience , I thought to have spared you , but since you have provoked me so farre , I charge you with a speech of yours . This blood is blood in my blood , which you gave me at our last Conference for the true exposition of these words . This cup is the New Testament in my blood , are you not ashamed of such an absurd Commentarie ?

D. B.

The congruity of this exposition I have maintained in writing , and I have long expected your replie .

M. F.

You know who imposed silence upon us both , to whose authority I acknowledge my selfe obnoxious whilest I stay in Paris . But I leave these matters & come to my ar●…uments drawne from the testimonies of ancient Fathers .

D. B.

I know what you will alleadge , a place of S. Austin de doctrina Christiana , and a sentence of Gelasius & Theodoret.

M. F.

It should seeme you remember these allegations the better , because you have beene gravelled with them , as b b Pli●… . n●…t . Hist. l. 8. Leo vulner●…us observatione mir●… percussorem ●…ovit . & in quantal●…bet ●…ultitudine ●…ppetit ●…um . Plinie reporteth , that the Lion taketh especiall notice of one that hath stroken him , and strangely findeth him out among a great throng of people .

M. F.

Well what say you first to Saint Austin , me thinkes he speakes home to the purpose in that very a a 〈◊〉 Argu. 〈◊〉 Austin l. 3 〈◊〉 doct. ●…hrist . c. ●…6 . 〈◊〉 praecep●…iva 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 est ●…t s●…agittum ●…t facinus ●…ans aut ●…litatem 〈◊〉 benefi●…iam 〈◊〉 , non est ●…urata , si ●…tem slagi●…m aut facinus videtur iubere aut utilitatem aut beneficentiam vetare figu●…a est . Nisi manducaveritis inqui●… carnem filij homin●… & sa●…guinem bibe●… non habebitis vitam in vobis . Faci●… vel slagitium vid●… i●…re : sigu●… est ergo praecipiens , passion●… Dominicae esse communicandum & suaviter 〈◊〉 ut●…liter recondendum i●… memoriâ quod pro nobis car●… 〈◊〉 crucifixa & ●…nerata si●… . place . If the speech command any good thing , or forbid any wickednesse , the speech is not figurative , but if the Scripture seeme to command a sin or an horrible wickednesse , or forbid any thing that is good and profitable , the speech is figurative , for example , unlesse you eate the flesh of the Son of man , &c. the speech seemes to command a sin or horrible wickednesse , it is a figure therefore .

D. B.

What if I should say with some of your owne side that these words on which S. Austin commenteth , John the 6. appertaine not to the Sacrament .

M. F.

You should oppose Cardinall Bellarmine and others of your own side , you should demolish one of the strongest pillars of Transubstantiation , if not the doctrine it selfe of your carnall eating , for if those words of our Saviour Iohn 6. ( unlesse you eate my flesh , &c. ) cannot be taken properly as S. Austin proveth by an invincible argument , it ensueth necessarily thereupon that the flesh of Christ cannot be properly eaten .

D. B.

You cannot be ignorant of Bellarmine his answer to this place of S. Austin , and the other you bring out of b b Theod. dia●… 2. Non rec●… dunt Sy●… b●… la mys●… propriâ 〈◊〉 râ , remane●… enim in pri●… re substanti●… for●… & sigur●… . Theodoret and Gelasius , looke in him for an answer .

M. F.

We come not hither to heare Bellarmines but D. Bagshaws answers , if you approove of Bellarmines answers , why are you ashamed to bring them to triall . If you approove them not , make us so much beholding unto you to acquaint us with your new and better anseers .

D. B.

Bellarmines workes are every where to be had , what trouble you us with these stale objections .

M. F.

Your manifold Tergiversations ( M. D. ) shew that either you are ignorant of Bellarmines answers , or you dare not avouch d d Bellar. answer to the words of Theod. that by 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 or substance is meant the accidents to the hisse of all his adversaries & blush of his owne side , seeing Theod. in this very sentence distinguisheth 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 from 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , as substance from accidents , and he disputeth in this place against the ●…utychian hereticks , who affirmed that Christs body after the Resurrection , was turned into divinam naturam , according to the substance , his words are , ita corpus Domini post assumptionem in divinam mutatur substantiam , as saith the hereticke , the elements of bread and wine are after consecration . Theodoret retort●… this simile upon him , thus , quae ipse tex●…isti retibus captus es ▪ neque enim Symbola mystica post sanctificationem recedunt a suâ naturâ , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . them . Answer me but directly to a place of Chrysostome , and I will presse you with no more authorities at this time , the place of Chrysostome which seemeth to me of all others most pregnant , is found e e Si ergo h●…c vasa sanctificata ad privatos usus transferre sic p●…riculosum est , in quibus non est verum corpus Christi sed mysterium ejus contine●… , quanto mag●… vasa corporis nostri quae sibi Deus ad habitaculum praeparavit , ●…on deb●…mus locum dare D. ab●…lo agendi in ijs quod vuls Homil. 11. in cap ; 5. Matthei , there he maketh this inference . If it be so dangerous to convert sanctified vessells to private uses , in which there is not the body of Christ , but a mysterie thereof is contained , how much more ought we not to give up our bodies which God hath fitted for an habitation for himselfe , to the divell to doe in them what he list .

D. B.

Chrysostome was not the author of these Homilies , but an Arian heretick , for he inveigheth against the Catholicks under the name of Homoousiani .

M. F.

Belike then your Church in her Breviaries , and your Popes in their a a Vid. 6. Senens . l. 4. ●…b . Sanct. decrees are fouly mistaken , who frequently alleadge sentences out of these Homilies under the name of S. Chrysostome . It is true , there are some places corrupted by the Arians , whom this Author notwithstanding manifestly impugneth and refuteth , Homil. 28. & 45. but that this place should be inserted by Arians , there can be no colour or shew , for as much as the Arians never were called in question for any errour touching the Sacrament . Secondly , if it could be prooved that Chrysostome was not the Author of these Homilies , yet in regard of the b b It appeare●…h that 〈◊〉 flourishe●… about Chrysostome●… time , or shortly af●…er ▪ antiquity of the Author , whosoever he was , you should vouchsafe him some answer .

D. B.

I answer , that by non verum corpus he meaneth not visible , by not true , not visible .

M. F.

Non verum corpus hoc est non visibile , a proper interpretation , as if nothing were true but that which is visible : or as if Christ had two bodies , one visible which Chrysostome called his true body , and another invisible which must needs be his false body sith you oppose it to his true .

D. B.

I distinguish not so of Christs bodies , but of divers habitudes of one and the selfe same bodie , to wit , visibility and invisibility .

M. F.

You say then that Christs body is visible and invisible at the same time .

D. B.

Why not ?

M. F.

And in the same place too ? to wit , at the Table ?

D. B.

What of all this ?

M. F.

Nothing but this apparant contradiction . That one and the selfe same body at the selfe same time in the selfe same place , may be visible and invisible to the same persons .

D. B.

This is no contradiction , because I say not that his body is visible and invisible respectu ejusdem .

M. F.

Scis simulare cupressum , you know the story of the Painter who being good at portracting of a cypress tree , when one gave him money to draw & represent a shipwrack in a Table , asked if he would have a Cypresse tree drawne in it : dispairing to doe ought else worth his ●…eward . This your distinction of respectu ejusdem is as fit to the purpose as a Cypresse to a shipwracke , yet still it comes at a dead lift . Once more explicate your selfe , what meane you by r●…spectu ejusdem ?

D. B.

Ejusdem habitudinis or modi existendi , the body of Christ as he sate at the Table was visible in it selfe , but invisible sub speciebus under the formes of bread and wine .

M. F.

If the species cover Christs body and hide it from sight , how say you that they are visible signes to represent Christs body and set it before our eyes ? visible signes you must needs make them , or you have none in your Sacrament , for the bread according to your doctrine remaineth not , and Christs body is the thing signified , not therefore the signe . When Drusius in his defence against a nimble Jesuit that called him heretick , alleadged that heresie must be in fundamentis fidei , in foundations of faith , the Iesuit replied , that even that assertion of his was heresie . I may with farre greater reason replie upon your distinction of extra species & sub speciebus , whereby you seeke to avoid a contradiction , that even this very distinction of yours implieth a manifest contradiction , to wit , that the selfe same body the same time is sub speciebus & extra species , under the formes and without the formes , is within the formes of bread and wine and without . If Christs body at the same time may be sub speciebus and extra species , it may bee under the formes and not under the formes , sub speciebus and non sub speciebus . Is not this a contradiction ?

D. B.

No , because he is not sub speciebus and extra species in the same place .

M. F.

Who ever required identitatem loci to make a contradiction ? are not these propositions contradictorie ? Deus vivit , Deus non vivit , Angelus movet , Angelus non movet . Anima est in corpore , Anima non est in corpore : and yet in none of all these propositions there is any respect at all to place ; The affirmation and negation ejusdem de eodem , ad idem secundum idem eodem a a Arist. Elench . tempore is a contradiction : but in these propositions , Christus est sub speciebus , Christus non est sub speciebus , the same thing , to wit , esse sub speciebus is affirmed and denied of the same thing , to wit , of Christ , secundum idem , viz. according to the same nature and part of him , to wit , his body ad idem , to wit , with a reference to the selfe same accidents numero . And lastly , in eodem tempore , to wit , at the instant after the prolation of these words , hoc est corpus meum , &c.

D. B.

The respect to diverse places is sufficient to salve the sormer propositions from contradiction . What urge you Aristotle in matter of faith above reason .

M. F.

I urge not Aristotle for any matter of faith , but for a question of Logick touching the nature of contradictions , but because you so sleighten Aristotles authority , I proove it by reason , that a body cannot be in divers places , sub speciebus & extra species , under the formes and without the formes : it cannot at all be in divers places , therefore not in such or such a manner .

D. B.

How proove you that ?

M. F.

By this argument . One body cannot be divided and severed from it selfe . But if it be in the same time put in divers places distant one from another , it must needs be severed and divided from it selfe . Ergo one and the selfe same body cannot be put in diverse places at the selfe same time .

D. B.

Divided and severed I grant you , respectu loci , non respectu substantiae , in respect of place not of substance .

M. F.

If the place be severed , I cannot conceive but that the substance that is in those severed places must needs be severed .

D. B.

This you are to prove .

M. F.

Thus I prove it .

Those things betweene which there is a great space or way , and many bodies and substances interposed ; are really severed , and discontinued .

But betweene the Hosts consecrated at Rome and Paris , there is a great space or way , and many bodies interposed .

Ergo the Hosts consecrated at Rome and at Paris are really severed and discontinued bodies .

D. B.

I denie your Syllogisme .

M. F.

Marke it once againe , this is the Major . Those things betweene which , &c. But the Hosts consecrated at Rome and Paris , are those things betweene which , &c. Ergo , &c.

D. B.

They are not those things betweene which many bodies are interposed .

M. F.

Is it not a great way , and are there not many bodies interposed betweene this and Rome .

D. B.

I grant you that , but I denie that the Hosts consecrated at Rome and Paris are things .

M. F.

Betweene one thing therefore , and it selfe , many bodies may be interposed . But if divers wafers consecrated by divers Priests , in divers places , be not divers things , I know not what things you will call divers . I perceive it will be to little purpose to reason with you by arguments drawne from reason , for you will make good any absurdity in reason by your faith . What answer you to the words of your owne Masse which you say every day . 4 Argu. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 de tuis doni●… ac da●…is hostiam param & sacram qu●… propi●… ac sereno vul●… aspicere digneris & accepa haber●… sicut accepta habere dignatus es mun●…ra pueritui ●…usti Ab●…l ; iube haec proferriper ma●…us sancti Angel●… tui i●… sublime altare tuum in conspectu divinae Maiestati●… tuae , &c per Christum Dominum nostrum per quem haec omnia semper bonacr●…as , sanctificas , be●…edicis .

M. F.

After the Priest hath consecrated and elevated the Host , he saith . Wee offer unto thee O Lord of thy guifts , a pure and holy Host , upon which vouchsafe to looke with a benigne and propitious countenance , and to accept them , as thou didst vouchsafe to accept the guifts of thy child Abel the righteous : command that these things be carried by the hands of the holy Angel into thy high Altar , into the sight of thy divine Maj●…sty by Iesus Christ our Lord , by whom thou dost alwaies create , sanctifie & blesse these good things unto us .

D. B.

What do you urge me with the Canon of the Masse ?

M. F.

You a Masse-Priest and not able to defend your owne Masse , a a Concil. Trid. ●…es 6 , Can. 6. Si quis dixeri●… Ca●…one Missae errores conti●…eri 〈◊〉 sit . are you not affraid of that thundering Canon ? if any man say that the Canon of the Masse containes any errors in it let him be acoursed . I should think my selfe much disparaged , if I should refuse to maintaine our owne Church Liturgie : Let this be noted that M. D. will not answer to the words he readeth every day in the Masse : doe you make as little reckoning of the customes of the ancient Church , as you did of the Canons and Constitutions of the present Church of Rome set downe in the Masse .

D. B.

What an idle thing is this in you to urge the customes of the Church , a morall argument in a theologicall controversie .

M. F.

Your exception were plausible , if I purposed to urge a morall or civill custome . I make an inference upon religious customes of the ancient Church , whereby a man may as certainely gather what their opinion and judgement was touching this point , as by their words . Evagrius saith , that at Constantinople l. 4. Hist. 〈◊〉 Ecclesiast. cap. 5 they called children from the schoole and distributed the remainder of the Sacrament among them . Hesychius l. 2. in Levit. c. 8. speaketh yet of a more strange custome of casting it into the fire .

D. B.

What collect you from these customes ?

M. F.

That they thought not the Sacrament to be Christs very body , but only a mysterie of it .

D. B.

I see not any force in this consequence , conclude Syllogistically .

M. F.

That which the ancients distributed to children , cast into the fire , they beleeved not to be the body of Christ farther then in a mysterie . But the remainder of the Sacrament after the Communion they disposed of as above . Ergo they beleeved it not to bee the very body of their Lord and Saviour farther then in a mysterie .

D. B.

I make doubt of your Major .

M. F.

I marvaile how you can make any doubt of it ? for if they had beleeved , as you do the Sacrament to be the very body of Christ , by way of Transubstantiation : they had grievously sinned against their conscience in thus using or rather abusing the Lords body .

D. B.

How proove you that ?

M. F.

It is a sin to give Christs body to children that cannot discerne it : a greater sin by farre to cast it into the fire : I say to cast the remainder of the Sacrament into the fire , holding it to be the very body of Christ in your sense , otherwise holding it to bee but the figure or Sacrament of Christs body , they might burne it without sin , in imitation of the Israelites , who by the commandement of God burnt the remainder of the Paschall Lamb , which was a figure of Christ .

D. B.

You answer your selfe , as you say the Iewes burnt the remainder of the Paschall Lambe to prevent worse inconveniencies , so the ancient Church might cast Christs body in the Sacrament into the fire in a reverence to it .

M. F.

A strange kinde of reverence to throw a man ( especially alive ) into the fire .

D. B.

If the figure of Christ might bee burnt in reverence , his body might with greater reverence .

M. F.

I scarce beleeve ( M. D. ) that you thinke a man should doe you a greater reverence , to cast you into the fire , then to burne your picture .

I see by my watch , that the two houres allotted for me to dispute are neare past , and therefore I knit up the foure arguments which I purposed to prosecute at large in three breefe questions . 1. What doth the mouse eate that lighteth upon a piece of bread or drop of wine consecrated ?

D. B.

The forme of bread returneth againe by a miracle .

M. F.

Peter Lombard propounding this doubt : quid ergo mus comedit ? answereth , Deus novit , God knoweth . Aquinas resolveth it against you . a a ●…e 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And so doth your church , saying , si mus corpus Domini comederit , if a mouse eate the body of Christ .

D. B.

What tell you me of Aquinas ?

M. F.

I must be briefe , that I may not defraud the Auditorio of your arguments . My second question is : what is that you call the consecrated Host ? the 6 Argu. bread is not the Host , because it is not offered , the body of Christ is not the Host , and I trust you will not say the accidents are the Host.

D. B.

Christs body is the Host.

M. F.

Christs body is not offered , therefore it is not the Host.

D. B.

It is offered .

M. F.

That is offered which is consecrated : Christs body is not consecrated : therefore it is not offered .

D. B.

I denie your Major .

M. F.

I had thought , you had held , that you offer a thing consecrated . What is consecrated , sith Christs body is not ?

D. B.

The bread .

M. F.

The bread remaineth not after consecration , and Christs body you confesse , is not consecrated by the Priest : therefore you have no consecrated Host.

D. B.

The bread is consecrated to be offered , because it is consecrated to bee made Christs body , which is offered .

M. F.

Your answer in a word to my 7 Argu. third demand . What becommeth of Christs body in the stomack ? doth it remaine there still ? then you have Christs body at this time within you . And what need you often receive his body , if you have it still within you ? doth it goe out of the stomack ? when and which way ? Is it turned into the substance of our body ? or evaporeth into ayre ? or is it altogether annihilated ?

D. B.

None of all these . But it ceaseth to be , as the soule in a part of the body that is cut off from the rest .

M. F.

Chius ad Choum . I speake of a body , you answer of a soule . The soule of a man , because it is a spirituall substance , may in an instant invisibly disfuse it selfe through the whole body , and contract it selfe in like manner , when a part is cut off , or rather stay her influxe into that part ; but a bodie that hath parts of quantity and soliditie of substance cannot penetrate another body , nor quit the former place , but by a true locall motion , visible and divisible , and that in time .

D. B.

Christs body is more spirituall then our soule .

M. F.

What , according to the substance ? If Christs body bee more spirituall then our soule , it must needs be a Spirit . for we speake not now of qualities or spirituall graces ? Note this by the way . It savoureth of heresie . Let me bee so much beholding to you , before I leave , to get of you a direct answer to this Syllogisme .

Every bodily substance truly existent in a place , that neither abideth in that place , nor removeth to another , nor is changed into something els , is truly annihilated or brought to nought or nothing .

The body of Christ , according to your beliefe , was really existent in the stomack , and neither continueth there still , neither goeth out of the stomack , neither is converted into another substance or thing .

Ergo it is there truly annihilated .

D. B.

Thus you dispute : Christs body is annihilated in the stomacke . Ergo it is annihilated simpliciter , I denie your argument .

M. F.

You denie your owne argument not mine . I undertooke not to proove that Christs body is annihilated simpliciter , simply , but that it is annihilated in the stomacke , which it seemes you denie not , nor can , standing to your owne grounds . Yet because you are so briefe with me , thus I proove the argument .

That which is made absolutely nothing in the stomacke , cannot be something elsewhere .

Christs body as you grant is turned into nothing in the stomack .

Ergo it cannot be something elsewhere .

D. B.

Your Major is most false .

M. F.

That which is made simply nothing , is yet something . Nothing is a contradiction , if this be not .

D. B.

Respectu ejusdem , M. Featley . How often have I distinguished of divers respects .

M. F.

And how often have I resuted this frivolous distinction of yours ; which was your first and now is your last .

Inchoat , atque eadem finit oliva dapes .

Here M. Featley being ca●…led off from farther objecting , D. Bagshaw opposeth as followeth .

D. B.

Christs body may be in more places at once . Ergo it is in the Sacrament .

M. F.

I denie your argument .

D. B.

This is the reason why you denie Christs body to be in the Sacrament , because you suppose it cannot be in more places at once . Ergo if it may be in more places at once it may be in heaven and in the Sacrament .

M. F.

This argument as little followes as the former . Ex particulari non fas est Syllogizare . Though this reason were not good , yet we have many other strong and invincible .

D. B.

It is no wickednesse to eat Christs flesh in the Sacrament . Ergo your argument drawne from the impiety of eating Christs flesh with the mouth is of no force .

M. F.

S. Austin indeed alleadgeth this for a reason , to proove that Christs words , unlesse you eate my flesh , Ioh. 6. cannot be meant properly , but figuratively , because it is an horrible wickednesse to eate the flesh of a live man . I approve of this reason and will maintaine it . Yet if you could overthrow it , it would not prove your argument : you know Aristotle distinguisheth inter argumenta 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . These arguments of yours , if you could prove them , are but 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , they are not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , they demonstrate not the conclusion of your faith , that Christ is really and corporally in the Sacrament . At the most they prove but that he might be in the Sacrament , for ought they bring to the contrarie that insist upon the former reasons . Let us heare one Syllogisme from you .

D. B.

The words of Christ are litterally to be taken , except you can bring some just exception against the literall exposition .

But you can bring no just exception against the literall exposition .

Ergo the words of the institution are litterally to be understood , and by consequence the Sacrament is Christs true body .

M. F.

All the arguments I have hitherto used , are so many exceptions against the literall exposition . But to restraine you to some certaine reasons , I say the words of the institution cannot be taken properly , because all the circumstances of the Text are against it : first , Christ took bread and brake it , & pointing to it , said , This is my body , and he added , doe tlois in remembrance of me . And after he had given the cup , said , I will drinke no more of this fruit of the vine . From all which circumstances many strong arguments may be drawne . Bread cannot properly be Christs body . Christs body cannot be given in remembr●…nce of it selfe . That which is the fruit of the vine is not properly Christs blood . Moreover , Christ in these words , This is my body , instituted a Sacrament , and therefore this sacred forme of speech is to be mystically and Sacramentally understood , answerable to the like used in the matter of Sacraments . Gen. 17. 10. This is my Covenant , speaking of Circumcision which was but a signe of the Covenant . Exod. 12. 11. It is the Lords Passeover , speaking of the Lambe , which was but a figure of the Passeover , 1 Cor. 10. The Rock was Christ , that is a figure of Christ . Luk. 22. this cup is the New Testament , that is , a sacred signe or memorial of the New Testament . The literall exposition of the words is repugnant to the Articles of our faith , clearely deduced from those words of our Saviour , Ioh 16. I leave the world and go to the Father , where it followeth immediatly now thou speakest plainely , now thou usest no parable . It is said , Act. the 3. that the heavens must containe Christ , according to his humane nature , till his second comming . Now if Christ , according to●…is humane nature have lest the world , he is not in the world : if he be contained in the heavens , then he is not without the leavens upon the earth .

D. B.

Thus I overthrow your reason . Christs body was contained in heaven after his Ascention , and there he remaines .

And yet he was since that upon earth and stood by S. Paul , Acts 23. 11.

Ergo your strongest argument hath no force at all .

M. F.

First I answer to your Major , that many of our Divines and a a Aquinas 3. p Summ. q. 57. art 6. no●… derogat dignitati Christi si ex aliqu●… dispensatione quandoque cor poraliter ad terram descend 〈◊〉 vel ut se ostenda●… omnibus sicut in iudicio , vel alicui specialiter sicut Paula & Lorinu●… con . in Act. c. 3. nihil absurdi est affirmar●… Christum ad exiguum 〈◊〉 p●… de coelo descendisle , solum enim ex hoc loco sequitur fi●… 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 Chris●… immorta●… s●… esse , neque 〈◊〉 ven●…um e coelo 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 minibus 〈◊〉 versetur inter illos fa●…liarner . yours also understand those words Act. 3. of the ordinary residence of Christ not denying that Christ if he pleased might extraordinarily and miraculously leave his place in heaven for a while , to doe some great work upon earth : which as it breaketh the force of your argument , so it no way disableth mine ; For if heaven be the place of Christs ordinarie residence , it followeth that he is not daily and ordinarily according to the substance of his body , upon earth , to wit , on the Altar as you beleeve , Secondly , I answer to your Minor , that S. Paul Act. 23. speaketh of a vision in the night , not of any reall or corporall presence of Christ .

D. B.

He saith , that the Lord stood by him , and spake unto him , therefore it was no vision .

M. F.

I denie your argument . S. Peter saith , Act. 10. that he saw heaven opened , certaine vessell came downe to him , and he heard a voice , saying to him , kill and eate . And this was done three times , the more to confirme him , and yet all this was but done in a b b Lori●…us i●… c 23. Act. v. 11. Probabilis est sententia Carthusiani fuisse apparitionem imaginarium dor●…ienti factam ab Angels , ●…ec qui ex hac apparitione colligunt Christū●…sse in c●…lo & Sacramento firmiter argumentantur . vision . Likewise we reade in the book of Tobia , ( which you receive for Canonicall ) that the Angell did eate and drinke with c c Tob. 12. 10. All these daies I did appeare unto you , but I did neither ●…ate nor drink . Tobia , and yet all this was but done in a vision , nay the same word ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 standing by me ) is used by S. Luke Act. 16. 9 there stood a man of Macedonia and prayed him , &c. and yet hee speakes of a vision in the night .

D. B.

S. Luke saith , Act. 23. 11. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , which is the very word S. Paul useth , Act. 22. 13. where he speaketh of Ananias comming unto him . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . But Ananias truly stood by S. Paul , not in vision only . Ergo Christ likewise stood by him , and did not onely appeare so to do .

M. F.

The same word in divers places of Scripture may be diversly taken , according to the diversity of the matter and circumstances of the Text.

Ananias was a man that could not otherwise present himselfe to S. Paul then by comming to him & visibly standing by him , Christ by his divine power might .

Besides Ananias was not in heaven , but upon earth , & therfore he might stand by S. Paul visibly & locally , without any miracle or apparition . But Christ , as we are both agreed , was at this present in heaven , sitting at the right hand of the Father , & therfore could not otherwise be present with S. Paul , then in spirit , or by vision , which I am induced to beleeve the rather , because the Text saith , this was done in the night , the most proper time for a vision . The night following , the Lord stood by him , and said , &c.

D. B.

This is petere principium , you suppose that which is in question , to wit , that Christ could not at the same time be really present in body in heaven and in earth .

M. F.

I never heard that an answer could petere principium in dissolving an Argument . Petere principium in my understanding is to beg that to be granted to a man which he ought to prove . A respondent , as a respondent , is not to proove , but to hold and maintaine his own grounds against contrarie oppositions . The burthen of prooving lieth now upon you , M. Doctor , refell mine interpretations if you can , or make it appeare by some other argument , that Christ since his Ascention hath beene truly upon earth in body .

D. B.

S. Paul truly saw him and heard him , Acts 9. 22 , ●…6 . And that with his bodily senses . Otherwise he could not have beene an eye witnesse of the Resurrection . Chap. 26. Ergo Christ since his Ascention hath beene truly present in body , upon the earth .

M. F.

The Argument followeth not S. Paul truly saw Christ , therfore Christ was truly upon earth .

D B.

S. Paul being upon earth could not see Christ in heaven ; Ergo if he truly saw Christ , he saw him upon earth , if he truly saw him upon earth , he was truly upon earth .

M. F.

S. Paul being upon earth , might d d Ambrose in Epist. ad Cor. 1 c. 15. Paulus Christum videt in coelo vocantem & apparuit Christus illi primum in coelo postea oranti in templo & Greg mor. in Iob l. 19. c. 5. O Paule in coelo iam Iesum conspicis & in terra adh●…c hominem fugis Aug. in ep. 1. Ioh. tract . 10. I●…m non invenis loqui Christum in terra invenis ipse illum loqui de coelo Saule , Saule , & Isidorus Pel. l. 1. ep 409 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . see Christ in heaven , as well as S. Steven , Act. 7. v. 55 , 56. Steven being full of the Holy Ghost looked stedfastly into heaven , and saw the glory of God , and Iesus standing at the right hand of God , and said , behold I see the heavens opened , & the Son of man standing at the right hand of God .

D. B.

S. Stevens might be a vision . I proove my proposition . The senses of our bodie cannot apprehend an object so farre distant , as is the heaven from the earth : therfore S. Paul being upon earth , could not see Christ in heaven with his bodily eyes .

M. F.

Do we not see the Sun in the heaven , and it is said that the face of Christ in his transfiguration shone like the Sun : but my direct answer to your proposition is , that howsoever the eyes of S. Paul and S. Steven by the strength of nature could not apprehend Christ sitting at the hand of his Father in heaven , yet being miraculously enlightened & elevated as the Schooles speake , by divine vertue , they might easily . Heere M. D. Bagshaw at the first undertook to proove , that sense elevated could not discerne a thing so farre off . But afterwards perceiving it to be a matter of too great difficulty to proove , took advantage of a Popish Gentlemans speech , that helpt him out with a falshood , saying , the proposition to bee prooved was not , that sense elevated could not apprehend an object so farre off , but that S. Pauls senses were not elevated , which though it were an untruth , as many there present testified , yet M. Featley to gra●…fie M. D. Bagshaw left of his hold , and gave M. D. Bagshaw leave to proove the proposition he desired , to wit , that S. Pauls senses were not elevated , which he endevoured to do after this manner .

D. B.

S. Paul saw Christ , as the other Apostles , 〈◊〉 Cor. 15. v. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. He was seene of Cephas , and then of the twelve : after he was seene of more then 500. brethren at once : after that he was seene of ●…ames , then of all the Apostles , last of all he was seene also of me . But the other Apostles saw Christ with their senses not elevated . Ergo S. Paul saw him without any elevation of sense .

M. F.

S. Paul though his senses were helped , saw him as truly as any of the other . A man by helpe of a perspective may discerne an object farther off , yet sees as truly and more certainly then without the same .

D. B.

The same word is used in all the former verses . Ergo S. Paul saw Christ altogether after the sa●… manner .

M. F.

One and the selfe same word may be 〈◊〉 versly taken not onely in divers verses but in 〈◊〉 same verse , as for example , In mundo erat , & mundus per eum factus est , & mundus eum non cogno●… he was in the world , and the world was made 〈◊〉 him , and the world knew him not . Your own E●… positors take the word ( mundus ) here in athreef●… sense . But I need not make use of this observati●… For I take the word ( seene ) in all these places the same sense . S. Paul saw Christ sensibly and tr●… ly with his bodily eyes ; both when he was up●… earth by the elevation of his senses , and without also as we may probably collect , when he was r●… in the third heaven .

D. B.

That was not in body but in spirit .

M. F.

That is more then you know or S. Pa●… either , for he saith he knowes not whether it were 〈◊〉 the body , or out of the body : but I stand rather to 〈◊〉 former answer , which clearely dissolveth your argument .

D. B.

I will retort your owne argument upon yo●… The words Hic calix est novum testamentum 〈◊〉 meo sanguine , are not figuratively to be taken , fir●… there is no figure in ( Calix ) for calix or poculum signifieth that which is in the chalice without any figur●… as it is manifest by that verse of Virgill Pocula sunt liquidi fontes .

M. F.

As if it were a strange thing for a Poet to use a common figure ? doth not the same Poet that calls fontes pocula , 〈◊〉 , sat pra●…abiberunt , the meadours have drunke enough by ●…gant Metaphor .

D. B.

If Calix signifie vinum , as you say , it followeth that you ●…e no new testament , and so consequently no religion .

M. F.

This is a marvellous consequence : how inferre you it ?

D. B.

Christ saith , as you expound his words , the wine is the 〈◊〉 testament , but that materiall wine doth not now remaine : ●…refore you you have no new testament .

M F.

What a wofull argument is this ? what Protestant ever ●…d , that the Sacramentall wine was properly Christs Will 〈◊〉 Testament : the wine was a signe or memoriall of his Te●…ment : which wine though it doe not remaine now the ●…e numero , yet the same remaines inspecte : the bread which ●…st brake remaineth not the same numero . Will you here●…on inferre that the Church hath now no Sacramentall ●…ad ?

D B.

Here is a stirre with figures . A figure in Calix and 〈◊〉 ●…ure in Testamentum . Allyour answers are figurative . One ●…ry fitly called you figure-●…ngers .

M. F.

My figurative answers take away your proper arguments : and for your figure-flinging , you had need cast a fi●…re for your arguments , for they are all gone and vanished .

D. B.

I see the company grow wearie , I will therfore conclude ●…ith one argument , S Luke saith . That was shed for us , which is meant by Calix . But wine was not shed for us . Ergo by Calix he meant the true blood of Christ and not wine .

M F.

Those words ( which is shed for you ) have a reference to ●…e word ( blood ) not to the word ( cup ) This cup is the New Testament in my blood , which is shed , that is , which blood is shed 〈◊〉 you . S. Matthew and S. Marke who relate the same words , 〈◊〉 them to the blood of Christ , saying , This is the blood of ●…e New Testament which is shed for you .

D. B.

●…he Greeke construction will not beare it : for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is the dative case , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is the nominative 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 .

M F.

The construction is no harder then we finde in 〈◊〉 Iohn c. 1. 5 , and elsewhere , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , f●… 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and v. 6. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 .

Howsoever , it is farre better to acknowledge a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 or an enallage , then make an absurd tautologie as you do , expounding Calix blood , and saying it is the New Testament in his blood ; blood in blood , or as you mend th●… matter , glossing the words thus : This cup is the New Testament in my blood ; that is , this blood is blood in my blood .

D. B

This must needs be the meaning of the words , the latter words ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) cannot be referred in any tolerable construction to any other word then 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And therfore 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 here signifieth Christs blood , which he saith , is the New Testament in his blood . And with these words he arose from his chaire , and brake off the disputation .

M F.

Although D. Bagshaw as it seemeth sitting upon thornes , would not stay to heare out M. F. full answer , ye●…

M. F.

I held it fit for the satisfaction of those who desire to know the truth to add to his former answer First , that Saint Basil in moral reg. 21. c. 3. readeth the words in S. Luke 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and not as they and we now reade , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Secondly , that admitting the words to be so read as our adversaries would have them , I say yet still these words ( which is shed for you ) must be referred to Christs blood , as S. Matthew and S Mark referre them , and for the Grammaticall construction we have the like , Apoc. 8. 9. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 there for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 as here 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , there for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 as here 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉

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FINIS