[3 dialogues in verse, between Gelasimus and Spudaeus, Eda and Agna, and Wisdom and Wyll] Fisher, John, student in Oxford. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A00799 of text S112327 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 10917). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 61 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 27 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A00799 STC 10917 ESTC S112327 99847582 99847582 12621 2240917742

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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A00799) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 12621) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 226:11) [3 dialogues in verse, between Gelasimus and Spudaeus, Eda and Agna, and Wisdom and Wyll] Fisher, John, student in Oxford. [52] p. In Smithfyeld at the signe of the mytre, by Ihon Tisdale for William Pickeryng dwellyng at saynt Magnus corner, Imprinted at London : In the yeare of our Lord God M. D. L. VIII. The .v. daye of Marche [1558] Title from STC. In verse. At end of G1 verso: Compiled by Ihon Fysher student in Oxforde. Signatures: A-F⁴ G² . Imperfect; lacks title page. Reproduction of the original in the Bodleian Library. eng Dialogues, English -- Early works to 1800. English poetry -- Early modern, 1500-1700 -- Early works to 1800. eebo [3 dialogues in verse, between Gelasimus and Spudaeus, Eda and Agna, and Wisdom and Wyll] Fisher, John, student in Oxford 1558 54 9414 15 0 0 0 2 0 37.18 D The rate of 37.18 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-02 Assigned for keying and markup 2005-03 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2005-05 Sampled and proofread 2005-05 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2005-10 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion
Spudeus . EUer pla●●ng Gelasmie : Lorde , when wyll you be wise & sad . In scholers shoulde be modestie : But you playe euer the wanton lad . Gelasimus . Is this your first salutation ? You appeare some quarrels to picke , In few wordes make relation , Wherfore with me you are so quicke ? Spudeus . I must in few wordes shew my mynde Whersoeuer I chaunce to come , Idle and vayne I doo you fynde Lo , here I haue tolde you the some : And I knowe well that your parentes To learne vertew , putte you to schole : You defraude them of their ententes For daily you playe the wanton foole . Also sittyng at schole amonge vs What doo you els but playe and toye So that of you , all scholers saye thus : Gelasimus is a wanton boye . Tu leuior foliis , tunc cum siue pondere succi , To you I may this verse apply You are lighter then leaues without sap For good exercise you let go by And your owne selfe in Idlenesse wrap . Gelasimus . Of you God sende your frendes moch ioy , I thynke you wyll proue a sage Solon O God saue you and sweete saynt Loy You are lyke to be a wyse man anon , Se you not lo , a good body When dyd my frendes to you complayne ? Medle you with your owne study I doo not your maners disdayne . Multa facere ect , vbique putridum : About many thynges busy to be In euery place ( qd he ) doth stynke . Curiouse you are in checkyng me But of your selfe you doo not thynke . Now syr , because you doo thus reporte . When dyd you me so Idely fynde ? Spudeus . Euery houre full of play and sporte And as light as fethers in the wynde . Gelasimus . If I play , I am not Idle in deede As you your selfe haue testified : Spudeus· Idle as he , as sayth saynt Beede Which is neuer well occupied . Gelasimus . Interpone tuis , interdum gaudia curis : Somtyme , sayth the wyse man Cato : Interlace myrth amonge thy cares . Wherfore doo sobre men vnto playes go But to ease their myndes in great affayres ▪ What sayth the wyse man Tully ? Gamnyng and pastyme we may vse As sleepe and other rest truly Which no honest persone wyll accuse . Dum fata sinunt , viuite lati ▪ Dooth not Seneca this verse write , While fortune suffereth , be mery . And so wyll I for all your spyte Play and syng , hay dery dery . ●era nimis vita est crastina , viue hodie , Yesterdayes life is very late , Liue to day . Asmoch to say : Be mery and play with thy mate , Yea forsoth and that euery day . Spudeus . As your memory I doo commende In that you can Authours reherse So I must needes you reprehende Because you abuse a good verse , I meane the verse of wyse Cato ●hich you dyd english competently But the sentence of Cicero You passed ouer negligently . We may right well vse play and game As we vse sleepe and other rest But for what cause may we do the same ? In that place , it is manyfest . Than ( saieth hee ) whan we haue satisfied Other maters both weightie and graue Also whan we haue rectified Euylles , wont publique weales to depraue For hee sayeth in his offices That nature hath not brought vs forthe To vse playes , games and fantasies Whiche are maters nothinge worthe . But rather to seueritie And to more weighty studies Meete for men in authoritie And health for soules and bodies . Gelasimus . What speake you of senators In whose handes common weales did depende They were great learned orators Whose wisdome we can not comprehende Quod medicorum est ▪ Promittunt medici , tractant fabrilla fabri That longeth to Phisicians Thereof they promise and talke largely Carpenters for their furtherans Talke and treate of Carpentry : We are laddes , Scholers and Studentes Let vs talke , as to laddes is semely : So shall we please God and our parentes And men shall iudge well of vs truly . Spudeus . Well , of Idlenesse we beganne to speake Wherto you are moche geuen I doo see From that I coueyte you to breake That more studeouse you might be A fewe sentences you haue caught Which plainly you doo moche abuse You apply them not as the Authours taught But your owne Idlenesse to excuse . Gelasimus . You talke here lyke a great deuine And altogither of Idlenesse I pray you vouchsafe the same to define Because it is so great wickednesse . Spudeus . In the Tusculane questions Of Idlenesse , thus sayth Tully , As touchyng all honest actions Idlenesse is an ignary vncomly Also an ircksomnesse of the mynde When any good matier is begonne . And therfore seeketh some other kynde Wherabout vainly it may ronne As thus you are set to schole now To learne both vertew and science This is a good thyng begonne in you Godly is parentes wyll and pretence But a none ircksomnesse of harte And lothsomnesse of well dooyng Cause you to take another parte And to geue your selfe to plaiyng . Gelasimus . A certayne wyse man geueth warnyng Not ouer moche in study to stande For to some body Arte and learnyng Are as a sworde in a mad mans hande Doctrina scelesti , ect gladio in sani similis . Spudeus . Truthe , a wicked persone without dout To whom no honest thyng is good Mischeuously vttereth learnyng out As one dooth a weapon that is wood : But I woulde haue you to note two thynges First : The goodly sequels of studentes Some haue ben counsellours to Kynges Yea , though thei haue come of poore parentes What were the cheife counsels of Rome I meane when vertew flourished , Learned and graue in iudgement and dome . Who their Comunaltie most nourished . A thousande I coulde reherse by name Of whom I reade in diuers stories Which through learnyng haue come to fame ▪ And attayned vnto high glories . Qui probus atque idem doctus diademate talem Quis dignum neget ? hic aliis precellit vt aurum Est oricalcho nobilius vitroque pyropus . He that is good and learned withall Who wyll denie suchone worthy To enioy an honour royall Which we call a diademe truly For such one dooth other excell As farre as golde dooth the copper passe And as precious stone or Birrall Excelleth counterfaites or glasse Yet must learned men come of poore lignage Example of Marke Tully by name Uertue is a most sure heritage For that enhaunceth to honour and fame . Gelasimus . Truly your wordes make me to smile You speake not of the endes of the same Either they were driuen to exile Or els suffred death with shame . Spudeus . Impute that to ingratitude Marke this : Suche is euer the rewarde Of the ignoraunt multitude Whiche dyd neuer vertue regarde Suffred with shame say you ? forsoth no : Happy are they which for vertues sake Suffre death , or into exile go So that paciently they doo it take Also I wyll tell you as I thynke He that is endued with doctrine Shall neuer want mony , meate nor drinke So that to vertue he doo incline But the fallible chaunces of fate He shal be hable to withstande And if he be deposed from his state Learnyng preserueth him in any lande . Ipse tamen vidi nunquam , & vix credere possunt Vel perijsse fame , vel mendicasse disertum , I dyd yet neuer see , the poete dooth say , And scarsely beleue it I can That for honger any shall decay That is in deede a learned man . Gelasimus . Frende Spudeus I wyll be playne To obtayne glory , I bende not my hope They that coueyte honour to attayne At noone dayes for the way doo grope . Ergo honor & fama ▪ & myrtalis gloria laus ▪ Somnia sunt prorsus nil conducentia , Honor , fame worldly , glory and prayse Are but dreames , for nothyng profitable Therfore I am bent nothyng that wayes For I looke not to be honourable . Spudeus , Lo this is your commune fascion To truncate and destroy the verse Styll for your owne excusacion And wyll not the whole sentence reherse . Somnia sunt prorsus nil conducentia , quando Sorte magis quam virtute acquiruntur , They are dreames nothyng profitable But whan ? whan by chaunce thei are acquired Rather than by vertue honourable . who so dooth not desyre honour The same dooth no vertue regarde For honour in good men euer more For vertue is a iust rewarde . Gelasimus , Ha ha ha , to laugh you compell me In the faute wherin you dyd me charge Most euedently in you I see As I shall declare more at large . Turpe est doctori cum culpa redarguit ipsum ▪ It is a foule thyng to a teacher When the same faute in him is fownde Whiche he rebuketh in other Himselfe first to teache he is bownde I dyd truncate a verse you say Your later verse now doo you scande And whether I say true , proue you may , Or whether as a vexse it may stande . Spudeus , Serte magis quam virtute acquiruntur , at esto ? Gelasimus , At esto ? Haue you founde , at esto ? In your first rehersall that dyd lacke You talke so moche de honesto That you cast rectum at your backe . Spudeus . That ( at esto ) beginneth a new sentence , Which had ben prolixe to reherse . Gelasimus . I perceyue your cautelouse pretence That sentence woulde your wordes requite Because you woulde appeare fautlesse Takyng vpon you other to blame What foloweth I wyll expresse Earnestly without mocke or game : At esto , Quod tantum dignis tribuantur , dic mihi nunquid Corporibus prosint ? certe nil . Animis ne ? Tantundem hos inflant potius tumidosque leuesque Nec non solicitos reddunt : se sub dere multis , Et seruire solet multis , Ambire praecari , Munera largiri quisquis festatur honores . My formour wordes I must agayne reherse : For honour ( I say ) I doo not moche care Hereto tendeth my formour verse Now these in english I wyll declare . Be it so , that honour and fame Are geuen only to the worthy What profite haue men by the same ? They profite nothyng their body What commoditie are they to the myndes Euen asmoch : they fyll them full of pride And make them as light as the wyndes And fill them with care on euery syde Many must one serue and many flatter Pray , speake fayre , and mony pay Stoutly he must beare out the matter That wyll haue honour at this day . Lo , who so hunteth for honour This disquietnesse he shall fynde To the body a longe dolour And a continuall sore to the mynde . O bona paupertas , o non dum cognita diuum Munera , virtutum custos & amica pudori . O Good pouertie , o Gods good gifte , Unknowne is thy commoditie Keper of vertue throughe thy shyft And a very frende to honestie . A meane state is surest of all Daungerouse it is highe to clyme The mightye Okes haue greatest fall Whan the lowe shrubbes grow out their time Spudeus . Your wordes be good , but you digresse And declyne muche fro my purpose Gelasimus . Go to hardely : your minde expresse Spare not your learnyng to disclose Spudeus . I counsailed you lightnes to leaue And to giue your selfe to study To vertue I wolde haue you to cleaue Commodiouse to soule and body . By examples auncient and olde Stearyng vp your hope as I thought But with sentences stoute and bolde You haue sett my counsell at nought . As I coulde haue tolde you by name Of suche as study in youth haue loued Whiche haue attayned honour and fame And worthy men haue bene proued . Likewyse of innumerable I can tell you also by name Whiche of byrth haue bene honourable And yet their endes haue bene shame . Wherfore ? this is the cause for a truth Their tyme full Idely they dyd spende And would not study in their youthe Therfore shame & dishonour was their ende . Let all youth of Idlenes beware For it is the steppedame of vertue If you be caught ones in her snare All myschefes besyde wyll soone ensue . Otia enim fomes Vitiorum est otia mentem Ad mala multa trahunt , oti comes ipsa libido est . It is the prouoking of wickednes To many myschefes it draweth the mynde Unclennes accompanyeth Idelnes No greater enemy to mankinde . Gelasimus . You may perceiue well by my wordes That I haue not bene ydle alway Though somtime I set pytfalles for byrdes I am not ydle , as perceiue you may . Spudeus . Your goodly wyt I do commende And to prayse god you haue great cause But I haue sene that doth mee offende As I sayed in my former clause . Emollit otium Vires sicut rubigo ferrum . Idlenesse weakeneth the strength Like as rust dooth the yrone freate Quicke wyttes it dulled at lengthe And bredeth infirmities great Haue you not hearde men of grauitie Wishe that they had learned in youthe And haue bewayled their vanitie Cursyng themselfes with their owne mouth Vidi iam iuuenem praemeret , cum ferior aetas Moerentem tardos praeterijsse dies . I haue sene ( sayth Quid ) a yonge man When with more age pressed he was Mournyng in himselfe now and than That idely he dyd let the dayes passe . Idlenesse bryngeth in voluptuousnesse Whom good sayntes call the deuils bayte In voluptuousnes is all wickednesse Wherin youth to catche , the deuyll doth wayt Gelasimus . An olde prouerbe : Yonge saint olde deuyll Whiche to you I may well apply . Spudeus . Thus rather he that in youth is a dreuyll Is most like a deuyll to dye He that in youthe no vertue wyll vse As the commune prouerbe dooth say In age all goodnesse wyll him refuse : Whiche to hell is the pathe waye As no fruite is founde in that tree Wheron no flowre dyd before appeare Som age he can come to no degree Whiche in youthe wyll vse no vertue cleare . Iuuenis existens multa bona disce : While thou arte yonge , sayth Menander , Many good thynges study and learne . About foly let not your mynde wander Geue eare to wyse men which doo you warne Well may you be named Gelasimus Whiche scornfull dooth signify For whatsoeuer good men discusse You tourne it to a scorne vtterly . Gelasimus . And Spudeus may well be your name Whiche signifieth studious You study to gette honour and fame So that you wyll be come furious . Spudeus , Not so , I trust there is a meane , I haue learned to vse modestie Not so wyll I to study leane That I shall forgette honestie . I study not vertue to acquire Fame and honour therby to attayne Uertue for her owne sake I desyre In whom alone honour dooth remayne . Propter se virtus petitur non propter honorem . Gelasimus . I pray you let all this reasonyng passe And tell me this : may I not somtyme play ? Spudeus . You remembre what our talke was ? As sleepe and other rest Tully dooth say . Gelasimus . I am glad of that by this light I wish that my maister so wolde say . Men vse to rest and sleepe euery night Than so might I play euery day . Spudeus . Whether you may or no , you doo Yea truly , and that without measure And suche wantonnesse you adde therto That none other in your play haue pleasure . Gelasimus . In good fayth I play not other to please I vse to play for myne owne solace . Spudeus . But in your play you doo other disease And in so dooyng you doo trespace : Est modus in rebus sunt certi den●que f●n●s Quos vltra citraque nequit consistere rectum . There is a comly meane in all thynges Therbe also certayne limites pyght Beyonde the which if you passe the strynges , Nothyng that you doo , can be doone right In your play , and in all your affayres Learne you honest maners to vse Let not idlenesse catche you in her snares And euyll company doo you refuse Corrumpunt etiam Sanctos commercia praua , Euyll company dooth corrupte alway Euen those that be well disposed Conceale no falshed night nor day But of you let it be disclosed Serue God daily before any thyng Feare him , beware his lawes to offende Honour , loue , and truly serue the kyng And where fautes be , learne to amende : Your Father , Mother and Maister Loue , feare , serue , and gentely obay : Of their goodes be ye no waster With truthe helpe to gette that you may . Of ton●● and hande be you euer true , ● oathes to sweare , 〈…〉 doo you rewe : 〈…〉 beare . And you shall neuer go out of the way . Gelasimus , I haue not so litle wyt , good frynde , But that I perceyue your intent I thanke you both with hearte and mynde Your counsell is honest and prudent This one thyng of you I woulde desyre Daily that we may togither talke At suche a tyme as you shall requyre When you are best disposed to walke . Spudeus . I shal be content with all my harte : Fare ye well , God haue you in his kepyng . Gelasimus . Seyng that you wyll hence departe God preserue you wakyng and flepyng . Finis .
Here after 〈…〉 the Dialogue 〈…〉 liuyng of 〈…〉 which 〈…〉 Eda . GOd for me this day ( I trust ) hath wrought For yonder commeth she , whom I haue sought I am glad that I haue mette with you Agna . Agna . And I as glad to see you mery Eda It t s a straunge thinge to see you here alone . Eda . My syster is but euen now fro me gone And in dede we should haue gone togyther But that I did see you comming hyther To speake with you is my tarying here I thought to salute you since you were so nere . Agna . I thanke you gentle Eda for your good will Tell me dwell you with your Father still . Eda . Yea I thanke god , and stil I purpose to doo For I haue none so good a frende to go too I see wherto this wretched worlde is bent Therfore I minde not other houses to frequent In our last talke you did to me disclose A goodly sentence of holy saint Ambrose Whiche while I lyue I shall beare in minde For great vertue forsothe therin I fynde . Agna . Good lord do you those wordes so long remembre Eda . If I should forget them , my wyt were slender . Agna . As I dyd recyte them , can you say them again ? Eda . To here me say them , wyl you take the payne Agna . Yea truly that I wyll , yeuen with all my harte And helpe you , yf you mysse in any parte . Eda . That virgin whiche for Christ doth enquire To be amonge rude people , ought not to desyre . Seldom sene without cause in the market place Neuer alone in the streetes to shewe her face . It is not virgin like to be high in voyce Neither in vyle wordes or songes to reioyce Mayden like without nycenes in her pace No token of wantonnes in her eies or face . Lo Sister Agna these be the wordes I suppose Whiche you taught me out of Saint Ambrose . Agna . Saint Ambrose wrote this of the virgin Mary From whose sentence you do not muche vary Let her humilitie and fourme of vertue Be examples for you all your life to ensue . Who so doth the rewarde of Mary requyre Must folowe Maries vertue , with humble desire Howe meke , how pure how holy she was in dede You know , so that more to declare we shal not nede . To know good thinges is right commendable But to folowe them is most profitable . I prayse greatly your goodly memory Yet I must warne you to beware of vaynglory That is a vice of so craftie a vilany That it seketh euen vertue to accompany . Therfore a certaine Doctor doth monishe All persons whiche in vertue do floryshe Of vainglory aboue all thinges to beware For he calleth it a crafty gyuue or snare Wherby Satan wayteth to catche the vertuose And to frustrate them of their godly purpose . Eda . I thanke you truly , for your godly councell Your wordes I finde as true as the Gospell God to wytnesse , I haue a purpose sure To kepe both body and minde cleane and pure So that neither consent worde nor countenance Shall appere vayne , by goddes help & gouernance Yet I haue had a delight to be commended And therin I wotte well , I haue offended For though I do thinges neuer so commendable Yet am I but a seruaunt vnprofytable . I do but that whiche is commended to mee Neither all that , as in the Gospell I do see . Agna . Because you remember so well Christes doctrine I wyl teach you a lesson of holy saynt Austine : Uainglory of this worlde is great vanitie And not els but a fallible suauitie An vnfruitfull labour , a perpetuall feare A sublimitie perelesse for any to beare A beginnyng without good prouidence And an ende with vnprofitable penitence . Lo good Eda , this is a vertuouse lesson Ponder it with earnest discrecion And with your chaste mynde and puritie Pray to God to geue you humilitie For somoche the more to God you are preciouse How moch in your own eyes , you ar conteintuos Eda . I trust in God also this lesson to beare away , And to folow it , I wyll do that I may : But gentle Agna , doo you not yet departe For to you I wolde shew the secretes of my hart Agna . Your request standeth with so good reason That I must nedes tary with you a season . Eda . Truly one thyng maketh me moch to lament And that is , somtime for myne owne document I wold keepe company with Maides very fayne And I fynde the most of them raumpysh & vaine And like as many of them are past all shame So feare they not God , neither honour his name ▪ If I chaunce with any of them to walke , Of beauty , or of gay raiment is their talke Elles of mar●age , or of yonge bachelers To speake shortly : they are vayne claterers . Speake to them of God , and of obedience They fare as persons without intelligence So that in their company kepyng in deede Of .ii. perilles , it is expedient to take heede : One is , ( if I be not like to them ) obloquie , The other is ( if I be lyke the company ) Lewde condition , by talke vncomly : Whiche thynges are a great greefe to me truly . Agna . Children and seruauntes are representations Of their parentes and maisters abhominations Like as many parents ar without the fere of god So from their maners the children be seldome od My counsell is suche Maydes company to forsake , What they talke of you , no mater it dooth make So that a pure conscience beareth you recorde That faithfully you serue Iesus christ our lorde Neuer be you without some vertuous booke Wheron at voyde times you mai diligently looke In good bookes truly is all my solace For in them I learne thynges wysely to compace First how I shal feare god our lorde omnipotent To my Prince and parentes to be obedient To loue my familiers , to honour my betters To pitye the needye , and to forgeue my detters . Agna . As I wyll you to vse bokes well , if you haue any So I counsell you not to vse very many For so many heades , so many wyttes they say Amonge the whiche all take not the right way . For some haue written asmoche for affection As for any good zeale or instruction And as virginitie is nothyng without humilitie So neither of them is ought worth without veritie Uertuous in good persons are so lynked togither That one can not auayle without the other : What is virginitie worth , ioyned with errour Nothyng but payne takyng for infernal terrour . That mynde can neuer be scincere and pure Which in the fayth of Christ standeth not sure . In Christes Testament be stable eruditions Therafter frame your lyfe and conditions . Saynt Ambrose wrote the lyfe of saynt Cecily Wherin are notable examples verely . Eda . Sauyng your tale , I haue read the same story Wher I find many things sounding to gods glory And cheefly this I noted in saynt Cecily That the Gospell she bare in her hert secretly And as a Bee busely goeth from flame to flame , So she in all thynges serued God day and houre ▪ And when other dyd syng & with instruments play Unto our Lorde in her mynde she dyd thus pray O Lorde let my hart be pure and immaculate That I be not confounded with the reprobate She was no vayne babler of the holy Gospell But framed her lyfe accordyng to Christes counsel Agna . O well noted good syster Eda in deede , God graunt you in knowledge forward to procede As you say , bablers there are to many The floures they haue , but thei tast not the hony Saynt Cecily kepte the Gospell in her brest But in the mouthe nowe only it dooth rest . Eda . Better it had ben neuer it to haue knowne Then so vily in the stretes to haue it throwne . Sayntes in tyme past studyed the Gospell To th entent that in good lyfe they myght excell , As it is to see very well in theyr lyues , Yea both of men & women , maydes and wyues ▪ Agna . Haue you red the lyfe of saynt Agnes ? Eda . I readde it ones in Englysh doutlesse If it be truly translated as it was All other Uirgins of that age she dyd passe Thirtene yeres of age , lytle past infancye Marterdome she suffred with great constancye . Agna . Saynt Ambrose , as it is thought by the stile Dyd her lyfe in latine eligantly compile At .xiii. yeares of age ( saith he ) death she lost And founde eternall lyfe , though her lyfe it cost , Full well loued she the floure of Uirginitie That woulde die rather then spotte her integrite Eda . What I am hable to doo , I doo not fynde But without doute I am of the same mynde Uirginitie ? oh can there be any greater pleasure , Into this world we brought none other treasure Agna . It is euen so : whan into this world we came , Moch misery we brought as the children of Adam Yet with vs we brought this commoditie In thought , worde and deede , pure virginitie . Nothyng in mankynde God loueth more Nothyng so moche aduaunceth his honour Therfore scripture compareth virginitie to Bisse The finest lynnen cloth that euer was or is , Wryters therof whiche do the nature knowe Say that it is a cloath as white as snowe As Bysse doth all one lynen passe in puritie So aboue all vertues god loueth virginitie It ouer passeth mans nature Doctors do say And make men like vnto Aungels alway Greater ( saye they ) is virgyns victory Than the triumphe of Aungels in glory . Eda . Where as you speake of that kinde of vesture Bysse is a precious cloth , that is most sure . But yere it come vnto the perfection It requireth great labour and correction For before to the whytenes they can it bring They vse to beate it oft , and oft it to wryng ▪ Agna . You say truthe , yeuen so virginitie Must eftsones be beate with humilitie It must be wronge with abstinence and prayer Before it be perfight , pure , cleane and fayer It must be rubbed with the soape of penaunce And bleached in the hote sunne of sufferaunce Here to must we adde perseuerance to the ende Whiche is our lyfe in defence therof to spende Thus shall we make a fayer garment of Bysse And therwith entre , before the kynge of blysse . Eda . Lord why haue not the christen maids this talke When they meete , or togither doo walke Agna . I told you before that the parentes negligence Causeth most this , and like inconuenience The filthy perswations of suche as be olde Kyndle moche euyll and make maides euer bold . Agayne , the bringyng vp of them in idlenes Is th occasion of moche vnthriftenes They haue no respecte also vnto the company Which to virginitie is a great vilany Whosoeuer toucheth pitche shal be defiled So by euyll company many one is begiled . Eda . Where as you talke of suche as be aged I knowe that some haue to filthely raged Hauyng no respecte theyr vile mouthes to open Shewyng therwith many an vnchast token Yea forsothe , & that before yonge girles & boyes , Wherby they learne to practise wicked toyes . Auncient women & wyues assemblyng togither . Many times do not their talke honestly consider , Neither what thei speke , where , nor before whom No truly lytle wisdome without , & lesse at home . Agna . O lytle regarde they the terrible sentences Of Christ our Lord for suche great offences . Better were it for suche a corrupte persone Aboute his necke to haue hanged a mylstone And so in the myddest of the sea drowned to be Than to offend any lytle one that beleueth in me Also for euery ydle worde spoken in vayne They shall render a strayte compte agayne For they doo not only themselues condempne But they cause other Gods lawe to contempne . Eda . Uerely syster Agna , my mynde doth me geue That the worde of God suche men do not beleue , I wolde they heard what God speaketh by Esay A boye of an hundreth yere olde shall dye Namely when he laketh maners to age corespondent That is grauitie , discretion , and a mynde sapient Understande me not here in any wyse That I go about aged persons to dispyse . Agna . No I dare saye , for you are taught otherwyse Before the honorable and aged , dooe thou aryse The order of nature where as is intelligence Teacheth vs age in all men to reuerence But where as euyll maners in aged men be As from the face of a serpent we ought to flie Thre thynges saith Syrach my soule dooth hate Wherwith I am greued and at great debate : A poore man proude , a ryche man a lyer An olde man a foole , and full of fleshly desyer . Eda . I flee the company bothe of olde and yonge Whyche be not honest in gesture dede and tonge With the holy , thou shalt learne to be holy Amonge fooles we shall learne but foly Wherfore yf I see any bent to inhumanytie . I auoyde his foly and lewde vanitie . Wyth non do I vse to common or dispute But wyth such , by whom I may haue sum fruit . Agna . For so doyng God be thanked for his grace A token that you intende vertue to enbrace . I redde in a booke of virginitie lately Where one compareth it vnto a Lyly . Whiche if it be towched , as he doth expresse A none it wyl lose all the fayre whytenes . So yf virginitie be touched a lytle Eyther with vncleane thoughtes or wordes ydle It wyll lose the purytie therof anone Yea and the sauour pleasing god wyl be gone . Wherfore hedge we in our garden with faith sure That our Lily from touching may be kept pure . Eda . I haue redde in a sermon of good authorytie That abstynence is a frende to virgynitie Contrarywyse , a full bely is an enemye Unto all maydes that wyl lyue honestly I haue hearde my father talke of that mater He sayd that maides wold fast with bred & water And dyd labour asmoch , & toke paynes as great As any day that they eate their meales and meat But as fastyng is tourned into surfaityng So is worke tourned into idle leuteryng . This I see in all states now for a surety The most parte are geuen to fleshly libertye As sum withold the truth of god in vnrightousnes So of his word thei make a cloke of maliciousnes Yea yong & olde , maydes , widowes men & wiues As it doth appeare to playnly by their lyues . To the good towne they must go to drinke wyne Though they come agayne as dronke as swyne . Agna . Among the Romayns no greater offence ther was Then for women at Tauernes their tymes to pas A lawe ther was , that they might no wine drinke Whiche was no euyl truly I do thynke . But whan yonge gyrles wyll be wyne bybbars It foloweth , that they intende to be euyl lyuers Wine sayeth Hierom , youth and lustines Is a doble kyndeling vnto voluptuousnes . Madnes it is to adde oyle vnto a fyre But more madnes to giue youth their desyre . There is better pathe to lyfe euerlasting Than ( is being in the fayth ) prayer and fasting . Eda . May you tary no longer here trowe you ? Agna . The time draweth nere that I must depart now . Eda . Let vs talke .iii. or .iiii. sentences mo And than in goddes name you shall go . Me thinke that there is a great falte in parentes Concernyng their doughters attyre & garmentes Agna . As all things are cleane to them that be cleane So in all thynges there is an honest meane I doo not moche passe of the outwarde vesture So the mynde be morned with christen or nature Asmoche mekenes may be vnder a veluet gowne As in one that wereth the worst coat in the toune & asmoch pride in him that wereth a patched coat As in him that weareth golde about his throate , Superfluous disguisyng is very euyll But paintyng of the hearre cometh of the deuyll . o woman saith Ambrose , thou blottest out gods pictur When thou with paintyng alterest nature . I can not prayse these new founde disguisynges Through pride they were of Satans dyuysinges A holy man sayeth , that externall superfluitie Is a sygne of an internall vanytie Whersoeuer sayeth hee , nyce garmentes ye finde You may be sure ther to haue the nicenes of mind Wolde to god in garmentes there were more modestie I alow clenlines in apparel with honestie . Eda . As of vertuouse maters here we do talke So in our lyuyng , God gyue vs grace to walke . Howe say you by singing and dauncing To synne I iudge them a great aduauncing My father wil haue me to play at the Lute Also at the Uirginalles wherin is small fruite . Agna . As in godly maters you are very wyse So in thinges indifferent be not to nyce . The best giftes of God may bee abused The giftes therfore maye not be accused , But they whiche abuse goddes good giftes As all they do whiche are carnall vnthriftes To can singe truly is right commendable Yf the cyrcumstances be alowable . As the songe to be good , sunge with good intent The persone the time the place honest and decent . In like maner at instrumentes to playe A goodly gift of God it is truly I saye . But abused , they may be through vaine pride And whan better thinges for them are laide aside In holy scripture we finde that yonge damsels Sang Psalmes , songes , & played at Tymbrels Suche Instrumentes as they vsed than Whiche haue not ben rebuked of any wise man . But those thinges were euer done in time To the honour of god , wherin was no crime . I tell you in this thing my poore aduisement But leane you to a wyse bodies Iudgement . Nowe as for dauncing , I wot not what to say Holy men haue spoken against it til this day . And though kyng Dauid daunced before the Arke I wot not what to say for I am no clarke . But this is the sentence of some that be wyse Dauncing can be scacely vsed without vice For by their owne iudgement you can not daunce finely Without a great pride and secrete enuy . Eda . God saue me then from learnyng that arte Herodias doughter played a wicked parte For through her daunsyng , most holy saynt Ihon By Herodes commaundment was beheded anon Pride and enuy are synnes which I detest , To avoyde th occasion of them I thynke it best When I see that any vertue therby dooth chaunce Then diligently wyll I learne to daunce , God graunt me grace to learne him to please To my minde that shal be the greatest ease . Agna . I must byd you fare well tyl to morowe Than to talke with you more , a time I wil I borow Eda . I thanke you hartely for your great payne I shal thinke longe tyl I speake with you again ▪ I desyre you , this night in your meditation Deuise in your minde against our next communication How I may serue god as he doth require Let this be our next talke I do you desyre . Agna With a good wyl you shal knowe my harte God haue you in his keping I must departe . Eda . God be with vs in farewel and greeting And send vs againe a mery meeting . Amen . Finis .
❧ Here after foloweth A Dialogue concernyng wysdom and Wyll . Who reason togither thus . TO spende the time honestly a season I thinke this to be a talke conuenient Of Wyll and Wisdom a while to reason And who maye iustly be called sapient I thinke it meete therfore Wysdom to defyne Tully calleth it a knowledge or science Of maters aswell heauenly and diuyne As of humane thinges , in th ordre of prudence . So that perfightely to knowe goddes wyll That is , what of man , god doth requyre And the same in worde and dede to fulfyll Is the highest wisdom wherto man can aspyre . Also what percayneth to cumly ordre Amonge men at all times to be vsed And to kepe the same in euery bordre Is wysdom , of none to be refused . According hereto a Christian Poete Certaine pleasant versis in Latin doth wryte Whiche if a whyle you wyl be quyete As well as I can , I wyll recyte . Sed fortasse aliquis quaerit sapientia quid sit : Nil aliud certe est nisi prima scientia , per quam Mens pura & nulla mortali pondere praessa Libera terrenis affectibus atria coeli Scandit , & aethera cum dijs versatur in aulae , Sum perchaunce wyll aske , what is sapience Nothing elles but a science principall Wherby ( a minde spotted with no vncongruence Neither pressed with any synne capitall But free from affections terrestriall ) Unto the heauenly palaces doth ascende And is conuersaunt with spirites celestiall In heauen I meane , wher god is without ende . Many noble sentences be in that place Right worthy to be talked of in dede But because they requyre more time and space I leaue them and wyl to other thinges procede As in fewe persons is this Sapience So in all men lyuing is there a wyll Whiche through stoborne disobedience Many one , both soule and body doth spyll . Wylle . Somwhat of Wyll here by your pacience I must saye accordyng to learnyng And as you haue praysed sapience So of Wyll , let me say my meanyng . Wisdome . Wyll playeth the wanton boy now and than . Whan Wyll without wyt , reuelleth alone He vndoeth many a wylfull man Who wolde repent whan the time is gone Wyll . Wyll is an appetite gyuen to goodnes According to prudent Aristotles mynde In the fyrst boke of Rethorickes he doth expresse The same sentence , or moche of that kynde And the same Poete which you dyd reherse ( A Poete ? no forsoth . rather a Deuine ) Ryght nobly speaketh of Wylle in a verse As though Wylle , doth not to euyll encline . Suntque voluntatis bona plura & quatuor horum Praecipua existunt , prudencia ▪ iustitia atque Grandia quae aggreditur fortis discrimina virtus , Net non quae frenis nos temperat atque modestos , Efficit . &c. There be many good thynges longyng to Wylle And cheefly .iiii. Prudence , and Iustice , Strength , that noble vertue gret thinges to fulfyl Temperance , who restrayneth sensuall vice . These .iiii. be called vertues Cardinall : For of them all other vertues depende Of the which vertues , Wylle is th originall Wherfore , Wylle I may iustly commende . Wisdome . I say styll , that Witte is a crafty boye , Fayne he wolde his wilfull foly excuse , He hathe played euen nowe a subtle toye . For a learned sentence he dyd abuse Aristotle in the place of you aledged Whereas you say , he dooth Wylle define , Is of you triuicated and abredged Contrary to the Philosophers doctrine , Wyll is an appetite of goodnes sayeth he Coniuncte or rather subiecte to reason I saye whan Wyll to reason doth agree Than all thinges be done well , and in season But I speake onely of that sturdy Wyll Whiche to obay reason doth proudly disdayne Than both it selfe , it doth destroy and spyll And putteth many another to payne . In that Wyll , whyche to reason doth consent Is all kynde of good vertues conteyned Than it doth nothing wherof it should repent For all vyces therby are restreyned . Wyll . Methynke you make lytle difference Betwyxt Wyll and sensualytie Wyll is equall with sapience Yea and hygher in authorytie . For what could sapience or reason do Or any other power of the minde Except Wyll , wolde consent therto Who hath power both to loase and to bynde . Only in Wyll is free lybertie Whan Wysdom and reason haue deuysed Wyll hath this power for a suertie To let all that they haue practysed . Example . Reason and Wisdom do teache Performe this they can not whiche they preache Except Wyll therto shall lybertie gyue . Wisdome . The pride of this stoborne Wyll , breaketh out And by lytle and lytle dooth the selfe declare Wyll is proude , Wyll is sturdy and stout And yet miserable , beyng lefte bare Euery man through Wyl alone is made a wretche But the more wretched as Austen dooth publish When the same Wyll dooth it selfe stretche , So farre that he may his desyre accomplish And also it foloweth , that through euyll Wyll Not euery man a wretche is made But also the more wretched when he may fulfyll That euyll wherto euyll wyll doth perswade , Thus he meaneth , the more power Wyll hathe To doo euyll , the more wretched it is , The more power Wyll hathe reason to scathe , The more bonde , and the more dooth a mis. Wyll . You haue talked of euyll wyll a long season I praye you what doo you call the same euyll wil Wysdome . That Wyll which is not subiecte to reason But seketh his sensuall rage to fulfyll Now to make answere to your comparison . Where you preferre Wyll before reason , In dede , Wyll , and his wylfull garison Compare with God from whom all goodnes come But in this poynt , wisdome doth wyll excell Wisdome is alway good , and Wyll somtime euyl Wisdome obaieth God , Wyll somtime doth rebel Wisdom , of God is led , Wyl somtime of the deuyl And let not wyll reioyce in his wicked power For the more power he hath to commit euyll The more seruile , the more vile day and hower , And the more draweth he vnto the deuyll . Wylle . To your sentence I can not moche disagre In few words you haue shewed the bondage of wyl Now I praye you declare how it may be free And I wyll humbly harke vnto your skyll . Wysdome . Whan Wyll to Wisdome wyllyngly doth encline ( Now what Wysdome is I declared before ) Than Wyll , not of merytes , but of grace diuyne Is enfrenchesed , and made free euermore Recte igitur quidam , liber solus sapiens est Dixere , Hic etenim solus ratione Magistra Castigat motus animi sensumque rebellem . Certayne learned men forsoth sayed ryghtly A wyse man onely hath a free wyll For a wyse man through lady reason aptely Chastiseth euyl lustes , & the flesshe rebelling stil. Reke this ordre . And than the wyll is free With Salomon aske of God his sapience Than to reasons rule alway agree And holde sensualitie in obedience He that can obserue purely these .iiii. lynes Not only a vertuouse man I do hym call But also I compare hym to a diuines And to the highest learned of them all . Wyll . I haue Ministred communication Sumwhat contrary to verytie That by your wyttie declaration I might be brought out of ambyguitie . For by reasonyng and argument Maters of contr●uersy and in doubt Are opened , made playne and euydent And the veritie searched and boulted out . Now to God humble thankes let vs rendre For his wonderful worke in mankynde Who our misery so greatly dyd tender That he sent his sonne his lost shepe to fynde . Wysdome . Say this before dyner or supper : Glory , honour and prayse to God the father For all his benefites geuen vnto vs Who by his spirite vouchsafe vs to gather Into the true fayth of his sonne Christ Iesus , We beseche that one God in Trinitie To blesse his creatures for vs prepared , Rendre we thankes with all humilitie For his kyndnesse to vs in all thynges declared He graunte vs his giftes so meanly to take That our bodyes may be in subiection Wherwith , suche a lyuely sacrifice we may make As before him may be in acception . Wyll . He keepe our tongues from talke of vanitie From backbityng , sclaunderyng or liyng At our table let there be suche humanitie As becometh his people bothe liuyng and diyng . In Gods name now take your refection We haue ended our talke for this season After your meale I must make an obiection Concernyng the highest parre called Reason . After dyner or supper say this Wisdome . Approche my frynde I pray you & come neare Go to nowe , propugne your obiection And in the truth , shewe you a direction . Will. You sayed before that Wyll is than free Whan it is subiecte to reason and sapience This sentence to reason doth not agree There is no fredom where as is obedience . Wisdom . If Wyll hath any lybertie at all The most is reason and Wysdome to obay The freedom of Wyll , of it selfe is but small . Whan it refuseth reason to be his stay . To haue lycence to do euyll is no lybertie But the most vyle bondage that euer was Now reason through grace hath this propertie To cause Wyll in the way of truth to passe . He that doth synne , is seruaunt vnto synne O what seruitude is lyke vnto this Non other aduauntage therby do they wynne But hell , where Satan the Deuyll dampned is . Contrary wyse , there is no lybertie Lyke the subiection vnto vertue For that erecteth the soule into felycitie Yf vnto the ende we do it ensue . Beholde , here obedience is lybertye And lybertie ( yf I may it so name ) Is vyle bondage and vtter seruylitie Whiche bringeth many a man to shame . Wyll . You haue well satisfyed my mynde But where as you talked sumwhat of reason I wolde knowe what reason is in kynde Whom you saye , Wyll must obay in season . Wysdome . Est autem ratio lumen quoddam atque animi Vis Qua curuum a recto secernimus , atque ab honesto Turpe . Oculusque solet mentis quandoque Vocari ▪ Reasson is a certayn lyght & strength of the mind Wherby we discerne the croked from the right The fylthy from the honest therby we do fynde Therfore of the mynde it is named the light . Lo here is this great Clearkes dyffinition Wherby what reason is you may learne Also reason is a perfecte erudition By the Whyche good from euyll we discerne . Now reason , as the phylosopher sayeth Euer more approcheth vnto the beest A directry of lyfe an handmayd of fayeth Whiche loueth vertue , and doth vice detest . Wyll . Than I see yf Wyll foloweth reason It shall consent to all that is honest But sensualytie worketh moche treason And doth both reason and Wyll greatly molest But where as in your diffinicion aforesayd Of the mynde also you made mencion This terme ( mynde ) ought to be wayed Therin let vs also knowe your intencion . Wysdome . Mens igitur sol est animae , sunt sidera sensus . The mynde to the soule is a sunne bryght Whiche illumineth the same with her clere shine By the minde the soule seeth to go right And nedeth not out of the way to declyne . As for the senses are as the dyuine starres Whiche giue a shyne , but not to worke by Yea against reason they be obstacles and barres The motions of reason to stoppe or denie . Senses alonely do the brute beastes beutyfie But reason and senses both do enorne mankinde Yet reason excelleth senses verely As a man a lyue excelleth a man dead and blind . Reason is the more noble parte in dede For to heauenly thinges the minde it doth cary Senses holde man downe , on the earth to feede And therby man from beastes do not much vary . Wylle . You put me in memory of a sentence Whiche the great clarke Lactantius doth write Wolde to God I had the wyt and science As he ment it , the same purely to recyte . That high artyficer God our parent dere Hath giuen to man , sense , reason and sapience That man to be made of him it might appere For God is sense , reason , Wisdom & intelligence Of all the creatures that euer God did make In man he shewed most his omnipotencye Alas why dyd Adam his precept forsake For through synne he lost his innocencye Wysdom , Wyll , reason , mynde be here declared If you wyll speake a worde or .ii. of sence Whiche God in man hathe also prepared I wyll no more trouble you , but depart hence . Wisdome . Sum learned men call sense a powre passyue That is suffering obiectes variable Sensualytie is an appetite sensityue To the outwarde felyng very delectable . But senses are deuyded of phylosophers Into senses externall and internall Auicenna , Thomas , and their folowers Speake also of senses Intellectuall . Touching the senses externall ther be fyue That is , seyng , hearyng , smellyng , tasting , feling Bothe men and beastes as many as be alyue Haue these fyue commonly , without differyng These are as wyndowes to intelligence For by them all things enter into vnderstanding Of the whiche thinges , reason and sapience Apoynt an ordre after their determining . We myght minister hereof more mater Than to the auditors should be profitable Of many thinges to vtter muche clater Is losse of tyme , and nothing laudable . Wyll . There is not a worde spoken this season But therof some fruite I haue gathered . The knowledge I haue not farther to reason Whiche I trust is right well considered . To God yf it wyll please you thankes to giue Whiche wyth hys benefytes doth vs feede We shall do but our deutye , and I beleue That in all our actes , the better we shal speede . Wysdome . Thankes to the o father our creator Thankes to the Iesus Christ the way & veritie Thankes to the o spirite our consolator Thankes to the one blessed God in Trynitie . Amen . Finis . Compiled by Ihon Fysher student in Oxforde .

❧ Imprinted at London in Smithfyeld at the signe of the Mytre , by Ihon Tisdale for William Pickeryng dwellyng at saynt Magnus corner .

In the yeare of our Lord God M. D.L.UIII .

The .v. daye of Marche .