THE
OBMVTESCE
OF
F.
T.
TO
THE
EPPHATA
OF
D.
COLLINS
.
OR
The
Reply
of
F.
T.
to
D.
Collins
his
defence
of
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
Answere
to
Cardinall
Bellarmines
Apology
.
In
which
Reply
M.
Collins
is
conuinced
of
most
manifest
frauds
,
falsityes
,
fooleryes
,
&
lyes
.
WRITTEN
By
Thomas
Fitzherbert
Priest
of
the
Society
of
Iesus
,
in
defence
of
his
Adioynder
impugned
by
M.
Collins
:
wherein
the
Authors
name
was
cyphred
with
the
two
letters
F.
T.
Obmutesce
,
&
exi
de
homine
.
Marc
.
1.
Hold
thy
peace
,
and
goe
out
of
the
man
.
Sic
est
voluntas
Dei
,
vt
bene
facientes
,
obmutescere
faciatis
imprudentium
hominum
ignorantiam
.
1.
Petr
.
2.
v.
15.
So
is
the
will
of
God
,
that
doing
well
,
you
may
make
the
ignorance
of
vnwise
men
be
dumbe
.
Permissu
Superiorum
,
M.DC.XXI
.
TO
THE
HONOVRABLE
AND
RENOWNED
VNIVERSITY
OF
CAMBRIDGE
,
Thomas
Fitzherbert
Priest
of
the
Society
of
IESVS
,
wisheth
all
Health
,
Honor
,
and
true
Felicity
.
IT
may
perhaps
seeme
strang
vnto
you
(
dearly
beloued
,
&
my
much
respected
Countreymen
)
that
I
(
being
a
meer
stranger
to
you
all
,
and
very
different
from
you
,
both
in
state
of
life
,
and
Religion
)
doe
presume
to
dedicate
vnto
you
this
my
Reply
,
written
in
Answere
of
one
,
who
,
as
I
vnderstand
,
is
a
man
of
quality
amongst
you
,
and
a
principall
member
of
your
Vniuersity
,
and
therefore
by
all
likelyhood
very
much
respected
,
honoured
,
and
beloued
of
many
of
you
,
though
perhaps
not
of
all
.
But
the
truth
is
,
that
if
I
sought
protection
(
as
most
doe
who
dedicate
bookes
,
or
remuneration
,
as
those
that
write
for
hyre
or
gaine
)
I
would
follow
the
example
of
my
Antagonist
,
who
hath
made
choice
of
no
meaner
a
Patron
then
of
his
Maiesty
himselfe
,
from
whome
he
may
assuredly
expect
both
Princely
protection
,
and
a
Royall
Reward
;
but
seeing
that
my
end
,
and
desire
heerin
is
no
other
,
then
the
defence
of
the
truth
,
&
of
my self
;
and
that
the
confidence
I
haue
in
the
iustice
of
my
cause
is
such
,
that
I
feare
no
Iudge
but
Ignorance
;
I
haue
presumed
so
much
of
your
fauour
,
as
to
remit
it
to
your
censures
,
not
doubting
,
but
that
you
being
men
of
iudg●ent
,
bred
vp
in
Schooles
,
&
Exercise
〈◇〉
all
kind
of
learning
,
will
easily
dis●●rne
betwixt
sleight
and
plaine
dea●●g
,
shew
and
substance
,
falshood
&
●●th
,
&
lay
the
fault
where
you
find
〈◇〉
to
which
end
I
require
no
other
fa●our
of
you
for
my
part
,
then
your
pa●●ence
to
read
this
Reply
,
&
to
suspend
●our
sentence
,
vntill
you
haue
seen
the
●hole
,
notwithstanding
any
preiudi●●te
opinion
which
you
may
haue
alrea●y
conceaued
by
reading
my
Aduersa●●es
worke
,
not
hauing
seene
myne
●hich
he
impugneth
,
neither
hauing
●ad
other
notice
of
it
,
as
I
thinke
,
then
●●ch
as
he
hath
thought
good
to
giue
●ou
;
which
how
fraudulent
it
hath
byn
〈◇〉
many
respects
will
euidently
appear
●nto
you
by
the
ensuing
Treatise
.
And
now
for
as
much
as
I
thinke
〈◇〉
necessary
for
your
better
information
●●uching
the
whole
Controuersy
,
to
●duertise
you
of
certaine
things
,
belon●ng
thereto
,
and
first
of
the
ground
,
and
occasion
thereof
,
you
shall
vnderstand
,
that
Fa
.
Robert
Persons
of
goo●
memory
,
hauing
begun
,
and
almos●
ended
a
worke
of
his
entitled
,
A
discussion
of
M.
Doctor
Barlowes
answere
&
c
.
〈◇〉
pleased
Almighty
God
to
call
him
out
of
this
life
,
in
which
respect
I
vndertooke
to
finish
the
same
(
being
requested
so
to
do
by
himself
in
his
last
sicknes
)
and
therefore
beginning
where
he
left
,
and
enlarging
my selfe
so
far
(
vpon
iust
occasions
offered
)
that
my
Answer
grew
to
a
iust
volum
,
I
thoght
good
to
print
it
by
it selfe
,
and
to
entitle
it
.
A
supplement
to
Father
Robert
Persons
his
Discussion
&c.
And
when
th●●
same
was
almost
finished
,
and
the
beginning
already
sent
to
the
print
,
it
was
my
chance
to
haue
a
sight
of
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
answere
to
Cardinall
Bellarmines
Apology
;
and
to
find
therein
that
the
subiect
thereof
was
the
same
in
effect
,
which
I
had
treated
with
M.
Barlow
,
and
that
by
the
occasion
thereof
,
diuers
places
,
authorityes
,
and
arguments
which
were
obiected
,
as
wel
〈◇〉
me
in
my
Supplement
,
as
by
the
●ardinal
in
his
Apology
,
were
preten●ed
to
be
answered
by
my
Lord
of
Win●●ester
in
his
sayd
worke
;
whereupon
I
●●solued
to
examine
and
confute
my
●ords
answers
to
those
places
,
autho●●tyes
,
and
arguments
,
to
preuent
the
●●uills
of
my
aduersary
M.
Barlow
,
●ho
otherwise
might
perhaps
in
his
●eply
(
if
he
were
disposed
to
make
a●y
)
blame
me
for
not
taking
notice
●herof
,
and
either
turne
me
ouer
to
his
●ordship
for
satisfaction
touching
those
●oints
,
or
els
make
vse
of
the
same
an●wers
himselfe
.
And
considering
af●erwards
that
my
sayd
Confutation
of
●y
Lords
Answers
grew
to
a
greater
●olume
then
at
the
first
I
determined
,
〈◇〉
thought
good
to
cause
it
to
be
printed
●lso
a
part
,
and
gaue
it
the
title
of
An
Adioynder
to
the
Supplement
of
Fa
.
Ro●ert
Persons
his
Discussion
&c.
When
my
Supplement
,
and
Ad●oynder
were
diuuldged
in
England
,
I
expected
what
would
be
answered
t●
either
of
them
,
eyther
by
M.
Barlow
,
o●
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
or
by
any
other
for
them
:
but
within
a
while
I
vnderstood
of
M.
Barlowes
decease
,
an●
neuer
heard
more
of
him
,
or
of
any
man
that
had
vndertaken
to
answere
for
him
.
And
some
fiue
or
six
yeares
after
(
when
I
imagined
by
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
long
silence
that
my
Adioynder
had
beene
forgotten
)
I
heard
that
one
of
your
Vniuersity
had
answered
it
for
his
Lordship
,
and
there
passed
many
moneths
before
I
could
get
a
sight
of
it
,
or
vnderstand
so
much
as
the
name
&
quality
of
the
Author
.
When
I
saw
it
,
and
found
the
title
to
be
,
Epphata
t●
F.
T.
I
do
assure
you
I
wondred
not
a
litle
,
what
had
moued
him
so
to
entitle
it
,
as
whether
it
was
only
a
bare
allusion
to
the
sound
of
the
two
letters
F.
T.
(
which
me
thought
was
to
light
a
motiue
for
so
graue
a
man
,
and
serious
〈◇〉
a
matter
)
or
that
he
imagined
me
to
be
become
so
dumbe
,
and
deafe
,
that
I
should
needs
to
be
coniured
with
that
●ord
of
our
Sauiour
to
make
●●e
heare
●●m
,
and
answere
him
;
wherin
neuer●elesse
I
must
needes
confesse
he
had
●ore
reason
,
then
he
was
aware
of
;
for
●●ch
was
at
that
tyme
the
infirmity
of
●y
body
growne
by
frequent
diseases
,
●●cident
to
my
declyned
age
,
&
weake
●onstitution
,
that
I
was
resolued
to
be
●●ent
from
thenceforth
,
howsoeuer
I
●●ould
be
prouoked
,
and
to
desist
from
●●ch
laborious
exercises
,
and
studyes
,
●●s
required
more
health
,
and
strength
,
●●en
my
yeares
,
and
weaknes
could
af●●rd
:
yet
when
I
had
perused
some
●ood
part
of
his
worke
,
and
noted
as
●el
his
manner
of
writing
,
as
the
sub●ance
of
his
discourse
,
&
that
he
pre●ended
so
to
confute
my
Adioynder
,
〈◇〉
not
only
to
answere
euery
chapter
,
●ut
also
euery
Paragraffe
,
&
as
he
saith
〈◇〉
his
preface
to
the
Reader
,
to
leaue
no
●●rt
of
the
whole
vnexamined
,
and
yet
●euerthelesse
that
he
neuer
set
downe
●●y
wordes
fully
,
but
either
his
false
construction
of
them
in
a
different
letter
(
as
if
it
were
my
text
)
or
so
lamely
that
the
substance
,
pith
,
&
force
therof
neuer
appeared
(
whereby
he
both
sayd
himselfe
,
and
made
me
say
wha●
he
list
,
without
any
feare
of
controule
)
besides
that
I
discouered
in
him
by
the
way
so
many
egregious
fraudes
,
and
falsityes
in
the
abuse
of
the
ancient
Fathers
,
Historiographers
,
and
other
authors
,
so
cunningly
couched
,
and
coloured
many
times
,
that
it
was
not
easy
to
be
perceaued
;
&
all
this
so
būbaste●
with
the
vaine
ostentation
of
Greeke
pedanticall
phrases
,
thrasonicall
brags
&
triumphant
exaggerations
,
that
to
a●●
vnwary
Reader
(
yea
almost
to
any
tha●
hath
not
seen
my
Adioynder
)
he
migh●
seeme
to
trample
me
vnder
his
feet
,
&
to
haue
got
a
notable
victory
.
Hauing
I
say
,
noted
all
this
,
and
being
iustly
moued
thereby
to
indignation
(
in
respect
of
the
iniury
offered
as
well
to
ou●
Catholike
cause
,
as
to
my selfe
)
I
resolued
presently
to
giue
way
to
his
Eppha●●
t●
,
that
it
might
worke
in
me
the
effect
●hich
he
seemed
to
desire
,
that
is
to
say
〈◇〉
breake
my
determined
silence
;
and
●et
so
,
that
I
might
hope
withall
to
●op
his
mouth
,
not
by
a
formall
con●●tation
of
his
whole
worke
(
which
I
●old
both
for
a
needles
,
and
for
a
lost
●bour
)
but
by
some
briefe
,
&
yet
clear
●iscouery
of
his
fraudulent
dealing
,
〈◇〉
such
sort
that
it
should
euidentiy
ap●eare
to
any
indifferent
Reader
,
that
he
●eserueth
no
other
answere
,
then
such
●s
might
display
him
to
the
world
for
a
●otorious
falsificatour
,
and
coosener
,
●n
the
highest
degree
.
This
then
being
my
intention
,
I
●aue
laboured
to
performe
it
in
this
●●y
Reply
,
with
such
pregnant
proofs
,
●nd
manifest
examples
of
his
forgery
,
●nd
falsity
,
that
they
can
admit
no
co●●ur
,
nor
shadow
of
excuse
.
And
the●efore
as
he
thought
good
to
imitate
●ur
Sauiour
in
the
vse
of
Epphata
,
to
●ake
me
heare
,
and
speake
when
I
●eant
to
be
silent
;
so
I
haue
thought
it
not
amisse
to
seeke
to
stop
his
mout●
with
Obmutesce
,
in
imitation
also
of
our
Sauiour
,
who
did
therewith
put
to
silence
a
iangling
,
and
ta●ling
Diuell
saying
,
Obmutesce
,
&
exi
de
homine
.
Marc
.
1.
For
albeit
I
presume
not
to
do
a
miracle
,
as
our
Sauiour
did
,
yet
I
may
well
hope
that
my
Obmutesce
,
seconded
with
verity
and
truth
,
shall
haue
a●
much
force
to
put
him
to
silence
,
a●
his
Epphata
grounded
vpon
falsehoo●
&
fraud
,
hath
had
to
make
me
speake
and
thereupon
I
haue
made
my
title
as
you
see
to
be
,
The
obmutesce
of
F.
T
▪
to
the
Epphata
of
D.
Collins
:
but
how
wisely
,
or
folishly
,
I
haue
done
therein
,
I
am
content
to
leaue
it
to
you●
censure
:
only
I
will
say
this
for
my
further
excuse
,
that
if
my
Aduersary
ha●
reason
for
his
Epphata
,
I
think
I
had
no
lesse
for
my
Obmutesce
,
if
he
had
none
but
plaid
the
foole
in
his
,
I
haue
followed
neuerthelesse
the
counsayle
of
th●
Wise
man
,
in
answering
a
foole
acco●ding
to
his
folishnes
,
Prou.
26.
Thu●
much
concerning
my
Title
.
Now
then
you
shall
further
vn●●rstand
,
that
albeyt
my
first
,
and
●●incipall
intention
was
(
as
I
haue
●●d
)
only
to
discouer
certayn
notable
●●audes
and
falsityes
of
his
in
a
little
●●mphlet
of
a
few
leaues
(
to
shew
the●●by
that
he
is
not
worth
the
answe●●ng
)
yet
considering
afterwards
that
●●me
perhaps
might
think
that
he
had
〈◇〉
other
thinges
said
somewhat
to
the
●urpose
,
and
that
therefore
I
durst
not
●●ckle
with
him
hand
to
hand
in
a
sin●e
combate
;
I
thought
good
to
exami●e
some
part
of
his
worke
in
order
as
it
●●eth
,
for
some
one
poynt
or
question
〈◇〉
controuersy
;
and
so
I
haue
followed
●s
footesteps
for
more
thē
fifty
pages
,
●●swering
many
obiections
,
and
argu●ents
which
he
vrgeth
mightely
out
〈◇〉
S.
Augustine
concerning
the
suprea●e
authority
of
the
Sea
Apostolique
.
●nd
this
I
haue
done
in
six
Chapters
●e
more
amply
,
because
it
seemeth
by
〈◇〉
ostentation
,
and
triumph
,
that
he
hath
pleased
himselfe
therein
exceedingly
,
though
you
shall
see
,
that
h●
hath
notably
bewrayed
,
not
only
hi●
own
ignorance
and
folly
,
but
also
hi●
bad
conscience
,
and
little
honesty
whereby
you
may
also
conceaue
ho●
easy
it
would
be
for
me
to
answer
hi●
particulerly
to
euery
thing
,
to
hi●
shame
,
if
I
had
leasure
,
and
would
loo●
so
much
tyme
to
do
it
.
And
yet
for
your
further
satisfaction
,
and
his
greater
confusion
I
hau●
added
six
other
chapters
,
touching
th●
Inuocation
of
Saynts
,
and
the
Veneration
of
theyr
holy
Reliques
,
with
intention
neuertheles
,
for
breuityes
sake
not
to
deale
therein
with
his
impert●nent
fooleryes
(
which
are
inumerable
but
to
discouer
only
such
of
his
euidē●
and
inexcusable
fraudes
,
as
should
o●curre
in
debating
with
him
some
pa●●
of
the
said
question
concerning
pray●●
to
Saints
.
And
those
I
haue
thoug●
good
to
represent
vnto
you
for
exāp●●
sake
only
,
that
you
may
thereby
ta●●
a
skantling
of
the
rest
of
his
worke●r
,
to
vndertake
to
lay
open
all
his
●udes
,
and
coosenages
that
may
be
●erued
in
his
whole
Treatise
,
were
lesse
then
to
vndergo
the
labour
of
●rcules
,
to
purge
the
filthy
stable
of
●geas
,
as
you
will
perceaue
by
the
●ltitude
,
&
enormity
of
those
which
●aue
discouered
in
this
Reply
,
and
in
him
so
thick
heaped
one
vpon
other
,
that
you
will
easely
iudge
whole
worke
to
be
compaginate
of
thing
els
but
fraudes
;
amongst
the
●ich
also
,
none
is
more
ordinary
,
or
●●arkeable
then
his
wilfull
corrup●n
of
the
ancient
Fathers
,
of
whom
●●y
few
,
or
none
haue
escaped
his
●gers
(
as
I
may
say
)
Scot-free
;
in
so
●●ch
that
within
the
compasse
of
two
●ues
of
his
,
I
haue
noted
his
notable
●se
of
no
lesse
then
ten
holy
Fathers
,
●d
ancient
Authours
,
to
wit
,
S.
Am●●se
,
S.
Augustine
,
S.
Hierome
,
S.
Chry●●ome
,
S.
Gregory
the
great
,
S.
Gregory
Towres
,
Optatus
,
Theodoret
,
Sozomen
,
and
Victor
Vticensis
,
as
you
may
see
my
eleauenth
Chapter
:
wherto
if
〈◇〉
add
his
fraudulent
handling
of
my
t●●
in
the
dissimulation
,
lame
allegatio●
and
peruerse
construction
of
it
,
〈◇〉
changing
the
state
of
the
question
,
〈◇〉
contradictions
,
his
manifest
lyes
,
〈◇〉
foule
ouersights
,
his
vayn
Argume●●
more
forcible
many
tymes
agai●
himselfe
,
then
against
his
aduersar●
&
lastly
his
other
impertinencyes
,
a●●
fooleryes
,
it
wil
be
hard
to
determy●
whether
is
greater
,
his
fraud
,
or
〈◇〉
folly
;
albeyt
the
latter
is
so
notorio●
thoughout
all
his
work
,
that
I
can
n●
but
wonder
,
how
he
got
so
much
rep●tation
among
you
,
as
to
be
doctoure
yea
and
to
be
approued
for
a
publiq●
Reader
,
&
Writer
;
or
that
my
Lord
Winchester
,
would
eyther
admit
h●●
for
his
champion
,
or
could
hould
hi●
selfe
to
be
sufficiently
defended
by
hi●
in
this
work
of
his
,
which
I
make
〈◇〉
doubt
but
his
Lordship
saw
before
was
published
,
and
therefore
could
〈◇〉
b●t
note
therein
how
miserably
he
●●eadeth
for
him
,
how
often
he
becom●eth
non-suite
,
and
abandoneth
him
●●ite
;
and
that
his
fraudes
and
cogge●es
would
be
most
manifest
to
any
●●at
should
but
confront
his
Answere
●●th
my
Adioynder
,
whereof
I
am
for●●d
to
lay
down
whole
pages
,
and
lea●●s
in
euery
chapter
to
shew
his
perfi●ous
treachery
aswell
in
corrupting
●●y
text
many
tymes
,
as
in
peruerting
●●e
sense
of
it
,
which
(
as
I
haue
said
)
very
ordinary
in
him
;
in
so
much
●●at
I
may
well
say
of
him
as
Tertullian
●●th
of
all
Heretikes
in
generall
,
tou●●ing
theyr
handling
of
holy
scripture
;
●ntum
veritati
obstr●pit
adulter
sensus
,
●antum
corruptor
stilus
lib
.
de
praescript
.
〈◇〉
.
17
Besides
that
,
my
Lord
might
●●y
well
see
,
that
whereas
his
Lord●●s
reputation
is
deepely
wounded
●●●h
the
imputation
of
many
foule
fal●es
,
and
fraudes
,
wherewith
I
char●●
his
Lordship
,
this
his
aduocate
hath
〈◇〉
discharged
him
of
any
one
,
but
only
of
a
falsification
of
a
place
of
Ambrose
which
I
obiected
to
his
Lo●●ship
(
because
I
found
not
some
word
of
the
text
in
two
or
three
seuerall
i●pressions
,
which
I
had
seene
,
and
e●amined
)
of
which
imputation
I
no●
acknowledge
his
Lordship
to
be
ful●
cleared
by
certayne
printes
produce●
by
M.
Collins
,
which
haue
the
text●
my
Lord
alleadgeth
it
;
albeyt
neith●●
my
Lord
nor
he
hath
gayned
any
thin●
thereby
for
theyr
cause
,
as
I
haue
sh●wed
euidently
in
my
sixt
chapter
.
An●
truly
this
is
the
only
seruice
that
M.
Collins
hath
done
his
Lordship
in
a●
his
prolixe
,
and
tedious
Treatise
.
Therefore
seeing
it
hath
not
ple●sed
my
Lord
to
pay
his
own
debt
himself
,
but
to
put
me
of
to
M.
Collins
,
wh●
hath
tendred
me
payment
in
suc●
false
money
,
that
I
haue
no
reason
〈◇〉
accept
it
;
his
Lordship
cannot
blam●
me
if
I
do
not
giue
him
a
quitance
,
bu●
hould
them
both
for
my
debters
,
vnti●
the
one
of
them
do
make
me
bette●
payment
,
or
proue
at
least
the
money
〈◇〉
be
good
,
which
I
haue
here
reiected
false
,
and
counterfaite
.
For
if
my
●ord
,
M.
Collins
,
or
any
other
can
so
〈◇〉
,
I
will
acknowledge
my self
to
be
●●tisfyed
for
the
whole
.
And
of
this
I
●ill
desyre
no
other
iudges
but
your
●●ues
.
Only
I
will
beseech
you
,
that
M
Doctor
Collins
do
resolue
to
iusti●●
his
counterfait
co●ne
,
you
will
do
●e
the
fauour
,
or
rather
the
right
,
to
●ake
tryal
of
the
truth
by
the
touch●
one
;
I
meane
by
comparing
his
answer
●ith
the
text
of
my
Adioynder
,
and
●f
this
my
reply
,
and
not
otherwayes
●o
beleeue
him
:
for
if
in
so
doing
you
●nd
,
that
I
haue
done
him
wrong
in
●●fusing
his
payment
,
truly
I
will
not
●nly
accept
it
for
good
,
and
lawfull
,
●ut
also
acknowledge
my
errour
,
and
●●ke
both
him
,
and
my
Lord
pardon
.
●he
like
also
I
request
of
you
(
not
a
matter
that
any
way
toucheth
my
●●rticuler
,
but
that
concerneth
your
●●lues
,
and
the
honour
of
your
Vniuersity
)
to
wit
,
that
when
you
heare
him
at
any
tyme
labour
to
confute
,
or
to
traduce
Catholicke
writters
,
ex
cathedra
,
I
meane
in
his
publicke
lectures
or
sermons
,
you
will
examine
his
allegations
,
&
assertions
by
the
Authours
themselues
,
seeing
that
he
maketh
no
conscience
,
nor
scruple
to
belye
,
corrupt
,
and
peruert
all
kind
of
Authours
ancient
,
and
moderne
(
and
especially
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
and
the
Iesuites
)
as
you
shall
euidently
see
in
this
my
reply
by
many
examples
;
which
if
you
doe
well
consider
,
you
will
no
doubt
think
that
to
be
true
in
him
,
which
S.
Austin
sayd
of
the
Pelagians
of
his
tyme
,
viz.
frontem
illorum
non
esse
frontem
,
that
his
forehead
is
no
forehead
,
seeing
he
is
not
ashamed
of
such
enormious
,
and
prodigious
impostures
,
as
you
shall
find
to
abound
in
him
euery
where
.
This
being
so
,
I
leaue
it
to
your
prudent
consideration
,
what
a
desperate
cause
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
&
M.
Collins
do
mayntayne
,
seeing
they
are
forced
to
defend
it
with
so
much
●alsehood
,
as
I
haue
discouered
first
in
my
Lord
,
&
now
in
M.
Collins
,
who
hauing
vndertaken
the
defence
of
his
Lordship
&
finding
him
,
as
I
may
say
,
ouer
the
shoes
in
fraudes
,
and
falsityes
,
●ad
no
other
way
to
deliuer
him
,
then
●o
run
himself
ouer
the
eares
to
fetch
him
out
,
that
is
to
say
,
to
become
gna●iter
impudens
;
and
no
meruayle
,
seeing
that
a
lye
can
neuer
be
defended
with
●ruth
,
nor
one
errour
without
many
,
●nd
euer
the
longer
the
worse
.
And
●herefore
I
make
account
,
that
if
M.
Collins
do
attempt
to
iustify
his
former
●raudes
,
he
must
perforce
passe
the
●ounds
of
all
modesty
,
conscience
,
&
●hame
,
and
shew
himselfe
to
be
the
im●udentest
fellow
,
that
euer
liued
,
al●eit
I
verily
think
,
that
when
you
shal
●aue
seene
how
farre
he
hath
exceeded
●herein
already
,
you
will
be
of
opinion
that
he
cannot
go
one
step
further
.
But
if
you
thinke
that
in
all
this
,
〈◇〉
do
but
exagerat
some
smal
ouersights
of
his
out
of
passion
,
I
beseech
you
to
suspend
your
iudgment
vntil
you
com●
to
the
sixt
,
and
seauenth
chapter
,
where
I
do
purposely
vndertake
the
discouery
of
his
fraudes
,
and
from
thenceforth
note
well
what
you
find
,
&
then
iudg
of
him
and
me
,
as
you
shall
see
cause
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
the
present
;
for
in
the
Conclusion
of
the
whole
,
I
meane
to
say
somwhat
more
vnto
you
concerning
him
,
as
also
vnto
the
Reader
in
my
Preface
,
wherein
you
may
see
(
if
it
please
you
)
my
Answere
to
certaine
calumnious
cauils
,
and
obiections
of
his
concerning
my self
,
wherof
I
will
remit
the
iudgement
to
any
indifferent
Reader
;
not
doubting
but
to
discouer
therein
no
lesse
fraud
then
in
the
rest
,
with
such
grosse
ignorance
and
exorbitant
malice
on
his
part
,
that
my
●●mutesce
shall
haue
the
desired
effect
,
and
stop
his
mouth
,
in
such
sort
,
that
I
may
truly
say
with
the
Psalmist
,
Obstructum
est
os
loquentis
iniqua
.
Psal
.
62.
THE
PREFACE
TO
THE
READER
.
Wherein
certaine
malicious
cauills
,
&
opprobrious
reproaches
obiected
aagainst
the
Author
by
M.
Collins
in
his
Preface
,
are
fully
answered
;
and
his
notable
fraud
,
folly
,
and
grosse
ignorance
,
euen
in
Grammer
is
discouered
.
FORASMVCH
as
I
haue
already
declared
in
my
Epistle
Dedicatory
,
the
groundes
and
causes
of
this
Controuersy
betwixt
M.
Collins
&
me
,
and
his
fraudulent
manner
in
answering
my
Adioynder
,
togeather
with
my
whole
drift
,
and
scope
in
the
ensuing
reply
,
I
will
now
gentle
Readers
)
endeauour
to
giue
you
satisfaction
in
this
Preface
concerning
some
ignominious
aspersions
,
which
he
laboureth
in
his
Preface
to
c●st
vpon
my
reputation
,
wherby
I
hope
to
make
it
appeare
vnto
you
,
that
Verba
oris
eius
iniquitas
&
dolus
.
Psal
.
35.
The
words
of
his
mouth
,
are
nothing
els
but
iniquity
and
deceit
:
and
that
therefore
,
Conuer●etur
dolor
eius
in
caput
eius
,
&
in
verticem
ipsius
iniquitas
eius
descendet
.
Psal
.
7.
His
sorrow
shal
be
turned
vpon
his
head
,
and
his
iniquity
shall
descend
vpon
his
owne
crowne
.
Neuerthelesse
my
meaning
is
not
to
trouble
you
,
or
my selfe
with
the
answer
of
many
trifling
obiections
,
maleuolous
cauils
or
s●urrilous
scoffs
which
occur
euery
where
in
him
in
such
abound●nce
,
that
if
I
should
but
take
knowledge
of
them
this
Preface
would
grow
to
a
volume
)
but
my
intention
is
to
say
somewhat
briefl●
to
those
points
only
,
which
may
seeme
most
to
import
,
and
being
most
vrged
&
ampl●fied
by
him
,
may
perhap●
bre●d
some
scruple
,
or
doubt
in
the
Reader
.
1.
Therefore
wheras
he
insinuateth
,
that
he
could
touch
me
if
he
list
,
with
personall
vices
,
I
will
let
it
passe
as
an
idle
vaunt
of
an
idle
brayne
,
seeing
that
I
fi●d
in
diuers
parts
of
his
worthles
worke
,
that
he
knoweth
not
as
●et
the
condition
,
and
quality
of
my
person
.
For
albeit
he
sayth
truly
of
me
,
that
I
am
a
Iesuite
(
as
I
am
indeed
,
I
humbly
prayse
God
for
it
)
yet
he
holdeth
me
for
a
lay
,
and
a
marryed
Iesuit
,
shewing
his
ignorance
as
well
of
my
present
●state
(
who
haue
beene
vnmaryed
,
and
a
Priest
these
●wenty
yeares
)
as
also
of
the
custome
of
the
Catholik
●hurch
,
which
doth
not
admit
to
Priesthood
any
that
●re
marryed
,
and
liue
with
their
wiues
:
so
as
I
see
●ot
what
he
can
truly
vnderstand
of
my
more
priuate
●nd
secret
demeanour
,
when
he
so
much
mistaketh
●y
publique
profession
and
quality
,
wherof
no
man
is
●gnorant
that
knoweth
me
.
Therefore
for
as
much
●s
he
promiseth
his
Reader
to
giue
him
a
tast
of
my
●onditions
,
and
spirit
,
out
of
myne
owne
wry●●ngs
,
and
especially
out
of
my
Adioynder
,
by
the
●iscouery
of
foure
speciall
thinges
,
which
he
sayth
he
●ath
obserued
therein
,
(
to
wit
,
my
vanity
,
my
vi●ulency
,
my
ignorance
,
&
my
circumstance
)
〈◇〉
will
examine
how
well
he
hath
performed
his
pro●ise
;
and
I
doubt
not
but
you
will
find
,
that
he
hath
●ot
only
fayled
in
all
,
but
also
foyled
himselfe
nota●ly
,
discouering
in
himselfe
both
great
fraud
,
and
●rosse
folly
.
2.
First
then
for
my
Vanity
,
he
sayth
in
the
●●urth
page
of
his
Preface
thus
:
It
is
worth
the
●onsidering
how
euery
where
he
coupleth
●imselfe
with
the
Cardinall
,
and
somety●es
iets
before
him
,
sometymes
behind
●im
,
like
the
fantasticke
wooer
that
Ouid
●escribes
,
&
modò
praecedit
,
sequitur
modò
.
●hus
sayth
M.
Collins
.
And
why
forsooth
?
●ary
because
I
say
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
68.
Places
alleadged
by
the
Cardinall
,
and
my selfe
.
And
againe
,
pag
.
38.
The
law
Inter
Clara●
alleadged
both
by
the
Cardinall
,
and
me
.
And
againe
pag
.
356.
Twelue
Fathers
alleadged
by
the
Cardinall
and
me
,
and
the
like
in
diuers
other
places
:
but
most
ridiculous
sayth
M.
Collins
,
where
I
go
before
the
Cardinall
,
〈◇〉
when
I
say
:
Obiected
as
wel
by
me
,
as
by
the
Cardinall
.
And
againe
in
another
place
,
The
Bishops
answere
to
S.
Cyprian
,
makes
as
much
against
me
,
as
against
the
Cardinall
.
All
which
M.
Collins
taketh
to
be
feathers
of
my
frantique
ambition
,
scattered
euery
where
throughout
my
worke
.
Wherto
he
also
addeth
the
frequent
mention
,
which
I
make
of
my
Supplement
,
because
I
say
many
tymes
,
As
I
haue
noted
,
&
shewed
in
my
Supplement
:
A
quality
,
sayth
M.
Collins
,
somewhat
vnusuall
amongst
Writers
that
are
not
starcke
madd
,
to
beate
vpon
their
owne
,
especially
so
often
.
So
he
,
with
a
great
deale
of
other
idle
stuffe
,
and
bitter
taunts
touching
both
these
points
,
which
I
omit
as
well
for
breuityes
sake
,
as
because
his
booke
,
I
am
sure
,
is
so
common
amongst
you
,
that
I
need
not
to
be
ouer
tedious
in
laying
downe
his
text
.
3.
Now
then
heere
you
see
,
what
he
sayth
of
my
Vanity
,
and
how
well
he
proueth
his
imputation
thereof
;
wherein
he
beginneth
to
play
his
prize
,
that
is
to
say
,
to
practise
that
kind
of
fraud
,
which
he
continueth
for
the
most
part
throughout
his
whole
worke
,
I
meane
his
dissimulation
of
my
text
,
and
of
●he
circumstances
of
the
matter
in
question
betwixt
vs
,
by
which
meanes
he
doth
charge
me
with
what
●he
list
,
without
feare
to
be
controuled
by
any
that
hath
not
my
Adioynder
,
to
confront
with
his
answere
,
as
you
shall
now
euidently
see
in
this
,
whereby
you
may
the
better
iudge
of
the
rest
.
4.
Therefore
to
discouer
his
cozenage
in
this
point
,
you
are
to
vnderstand
the
cause
,
why
I
do
so
often
speake
as
well
of
the
Cardinall
,
and
my selfe
,
as
also
of
my
Supplement
.
This
doth
appeare
sufficiently
in
the
very
title
of
my
booke
,
which
is
this
:
An
Adioynder
to
the
Supplement
of
F.
Rob
.
Persons
his
discussion
of
M.
D.
Barlowes
answere
&c.
conteyning
a
discouery
,
&
confutation
of
very
many
foule
absurdityes
,
falsityes
,
and
lyes
in
M.
D.
Andrewes
his
latin
booke
intituled
:
Responsio
ad
Apologiam
Cardinalis
Bellarmini
&c.
Thus
did
the
Printer
set
downe
my
tytle
,
and
added
further
that
the
sayd
Adioynder
was
written
by
F.T.
author
of
the
Supplement
,
to
iustify
certaine
places
,
and
authorityes
alleadged
as
wel
by
him
,
as
by
the
Cardinall
in
his
Apology
,
and
pretended
to
be
answered
by
M.
Andrews
.
5.
Who
now
is
he
,
that
seeth
this
,
and
doth
not
euidently
see
withall
,
what
reason
I
had
to
make
mention
of
my selfe
many
tymes
togeather
with
the
Cardinall
,
seeing
that
the
speciall
scope
of
my
adioynder
was
to
confute
the
Answeres
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
to
certain
places
,
first
alleadged
by
the
Cardinall
,
and
cyted
after
by
me
,
in
my
Supplement
,
so
as
my
intention
was
to
answere
for
vs
both
,
for
so
much
as
concerneth
those
authorityes
or
arguments
,
which
were
common
to
vs
both
.
And
this
I
say
was
euident
inough
by
the
very
title
of
my
Adioynder
.
Besides
that
,
I
also
declared
the
same
expresly
&
amply
in
the
very
first
chapter
thereof
,
wherin
I
signifyed
,
that
when
I
had
well
neer
ended
my
Supplement
,
I
chaunced
to
haue
a
sight
of
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
answere
to
Cardinall
Bellarmines
Apolog●
,
and
found
therein
that
his
Lordship
pretended
now
and
then
to
answere
some
places
,
authorityes
,
and
arguments
which
had
been
obiected
by
me
to
M.
Barlow
in
my
Supplement
,
and
that
therefore
fearing
,
that
if
I
did
not
confute
the
sayd
answeres
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
M.
Barlow
might
either
blame
me
for
not
taking
notice
thereof
or
perhaps
make
vse
thereof
himself
,
I
resolued
to
examine
and
confute
them
.
6.
As
for
as
much
as
my
meaning
was
not
to
answere
my
Lords
whole
worke
,
or
any
part
thereof
further
then
those
places
,
authorityes
,
or
arguments
should
giue
iust
occasion
;
I
signifyed
diuers
tymes
,
that
the
place
which
I
handled
was
cyted
,
not
only
by
me
,
but
also
by
the
Cardinall
,
to
the
end
it
might
ap●eare
,
that
I
kept
my selfe
still
within
my
compasse
,
●nd
did
not
extend
further
then
to
those
authorityes
,
●r
arguments
,
which
as
I
haue
sayd
were
common
to
●s
both
,
or
had
dependance
thereon
,
and
contayned
withall
some
notable
fraud
,
or
falsity
.
This
then
be●ng
my
only
drift
,
and
intention
in
my
Adioynder
,
●an
any
man
with
reason
blame
me
,
or
ascribe
it
to
●anity
,
that
I
mentioned
my selfe
now
and
then
●ogeather
with
the
Cardinall
,
hauing
vndertaken
to
●nswere
for
vs
both
.
7.
The
like
I
say
also
for
the
mention
I
make
●therwhiles
of
my
Supplement
,
as
that
hauing
●eated
therein
diuers
thinges
at
large
,
which
occur●ed
afterwards
to
be
touched
in
my
Adioynder
,
and
might
haue
requyred
some
large
discourse
,
if
I
●ad
not
handled
it
before
)
I
referred
the
Reader
of
●y
Adioynder
to
my
Supplement
for
those
●atters
already
handled
therin
,
to
auoyd
the
need●●sse
repetition
thereof
;
besides
that
it
appeareth
eui●ently
by
the
Printers
Epistle
,
to
the
Reader
,
that
my
●●tention
was
to
haue
had
the
Supplement
,
&
the
●dioynder
bound
both
in
one
volume
,
albeit
the
●rinter
altered
my
designe
because
it
seemed
to
him
,
●at
the
volume
would
be
ouer
great
:
so
as
my
inten●●●n
being
considered
,
it
may
easily
be
conceaued
how
●●perfluous
,
and
ridiculous
it
would
haue
beene
〈◇〉
haue
repeated
in
my
Adioynder
those
thinges
,
●hich
I
made
account
might
be
easily
seene
in
my
Supplement
,
euen
in
the
same
Volume
.
8.
Now
therefore
iudge
,
good
Reader
,
what
Vanity
it
was
in
me
to
me
make
mention
of
my
Supplement
,
as
often
as
I
had
iust
occasion
to
remit
my
Reader
thereto
for
his
better
satisfaction
,
concerning
those
points
,
which
I
had
already
treated
more
amply
therein
.
And
consider
I
pray
you
withal
both
M.
Collins
his
folly
,
and
his
fraud
:
his
folly
in
that
he
picketh
such
an
impertinent
,
&
foolish
quarrel
against
me
without
any
ground
,
or
cause
giuen
o●
my
part
,
his
fraud
in
that
he
abuseth
both
me
,
and
his
Reader
,
in
dissembling
all
that
in
my
Adioynder
which
sufficeth
to
cleare
me
of
the
imputation
,
wherewith
he
chargeth
me
.
Thus
much
for
the
first
point
.
9.
The
second
is
my
Virulency
,
as
he
calleth
it
,
because
I
speake
sometymes
sharply
to
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
retorting
vpon
him
many
contumelious
speaches
,
which
he
vsed
not
only
against
Catholiques
in
generall
,
but
also
particulerly
against
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
calling
him
lyar
,
and
dotard
,
and
against
all
Popes
(
tearming
them
Antichrists
)
yea
against
S.
Peter
●imselfe
,
whome
he
blasphemously
called
caput
morbidum
,
and
vert●cem
ma●è
sanum
)
besides
the
notorious
calumn●es
and
vntruths
which
he
inuented
,
and
vttered
against
t●e
Iesuit●
;
all
which
I
must
needes
confesse
moued
me
other
whyles
to
some
asperity
of
speach
,
to
make
him
see
how
true
it
is
which
the
Comicall
Poet
sayth
,
Qui
dicit
quod
volt
,
audiet
quod
non
volt
.
But
whatsoeuer
passed
in
that
kind
in
my
Adioynder
,
I
hope
his
Lorship
cannot
take
any
iust
offence
at
my
manner
of
treating
him
in
this
my
reply
,
wherein
you
shall
find
,
that
I
beare
all
due
respect
to
his
Lordship
otherwise
thē
I
did
in
my
Adioynder
,
the
reason
whereof
I
thinke
good
to
yeild
you
,
because
I
make
no
doubt
,
but
that
you
of
your selues
,
will
note
the
difference
,
and
perhaps
desire
to
know
●he
cause
.
10.
The
truth
is
,
that
when
I
wrote
my
Ad●oynder
,
I
did
not
know
in
his
Lorship
any
true
title
●f
Honour
,
or
Dignity
,
Ecclesiasticall
or
Temporall
,
●hich
might
mooue
me
to
esteeme
or
respect
him
o●herwayes
then
as
a
priuate
person
;
for
albeit
he
was
●hen
called
Bishop
of
Ely
,
yet
I
could
not
(
according
●o
our
Catholike
doctrine
)
acknowledge
either
that
●itle
,
or
any
Episcopall
authority
in
him
,
being
no
o●her
,
but
a
meere
lay
man
,
and
consequently
voyd
of
●ll
Ecclesiasticall
function
,
and
dignity
,
in
which
res●ect
I
gaue
him
no
better
title
thē
of
M.
Andrews
:
●ut
seeing
he
is
now
aduanced
to
the
state
of
a
priuy
●ounsellour
to
his
Maiesty
,
I
do
most
willingly
yeild
●im
the
respect
,
and
honour
due
to
his
place
and
qua●●ty
;
and
therefore
do
not
only
forbeare
all
vnreue●ent
manner
of
speach
,
but
also
treate
him
with
the
●onourable
stile
of
Lordship
,
as
one
of
the
Lords
of
●as
Maiesty
most
Honourable
priuy
Counsell
.
And
●hereas
I
call
him
also
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
I
wish
it
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
I
do
not
acknowledg
hi●
therby
to
be
a
Bishop
(
for
the
reason
before
declared
but
that
I
do
it
,
because
I
will
not
deny
to
any
Counsellour
of
his
Maiesty
any
Honorable
stile
,
or
ti●●
which
is
commonly
giuen
him
,
so
as
it
may
be
vnderstood
to
be
abstracted
from
all
spirituall
power
an●
authority
,
as
I
conceaue
this
may
be
,
and
therefor●
I
do
so
intend
it
:
And
this
I
say
,
notwithstandin●
M
.
Masons
pretended
Register
,
whereby
he
laboureth
to
iustify
the
consecration
of
the
first
pretende●
Bishops
in
Queene
Elizabeths
tyme
;
which
hat●
been
so
fully
answered
by
our
learned
countryman
M.
D.
Champney
,
that
there
remayneth
no
furthe●
doubt
,
or
scruple
concerning
that
matter
.
11.
And
now
to
returne
to
M.
Collins
,
〈◇〉
doubt
not
but
that
considering
how
much
he
mistiketh
and
how
seuerely
he
reprehendeth
the
vitulency
which
he
would
haue
you
conceaue
in
me
,
you
cann●●
but
imagine
,
that
he
is
eyther
a
very
mirrour
of
modesty
,
or
at
least
void
of
all
malice
,
and
virulency
,
or
els
you
must
needes
hould
him
for
a
very
soole
,
t●
blame
that
in
other
men
,
wherein
he
is
faulty
himselfe
;
for
turpe
est
doctori
&c.
But
truly
he
is
so
far
from
moderation
in
that
kind
,
that
he
surpasseth
all
that
euer
I
haue
read
,
for
rayling
,
and
scoulding
more
like
a
curst
Q●eane
,
then
a
graue
Doctor
worthy
of
the
chie●e
chaire
in
the
Noble
Vniuersity
of
Cambridge
.
This
may
appeare
by
the
most
virulent
&
exorbitant
inuectiues
which
he
maketh
euery
where
against
the
Iesuits
,
&
by
the
names
which
he
●uenteth
for
me
,
not
contenting
himselfe
to
call
me
●sse
,
gull
,
foole
,
noddy
,
wretch
,
and
such
like
,
●ut
also
false
Theefe
,
Rustique
,
arrant
Clowne
,
Dogge
,
Mastiue
,
Curr
,
Lither
●ellow
,
Hobby-horse
,
Rakeshame
,
&
Sou●erly
fellow
,
without
any
other
occasion
,
then
be●ause
he
cannot
tell
how
to
answere
me
otherwise
,
●ut
only
by
bragging
,
boasting
,
and
rayling
vpon
●●e
,
as
if
I
had
committed
some
not
able
errour
,
or
ab●urdity
,
when
he
either
dissembleth
,
or
els
corrupteth
●●y
text
in
such
sort
,
that
he
maketh
me
say
what
he
●●st
,
and
then
triumpheth
vpon
his
owne
fraud
,
as
if
●he
sault
were
myne
;
wherof
you
shall
see
many
most
●uident
examples
in
this
my
Reply
.
But
as
for
his
re●roachfull
,
and
reuyling
speaches
,
I
little
regard
thē
,
●nowing
from
what
spirit
they
proceed
,
I
meane
a
●●irit
that
rather
deserueth
to
be
coniured
with
an
●xorcisme
(
such
as
our
Sauiour
vsed
to
the
tatling
Diuell
,
when
he
sayd
,
Obmutesce
,
&
exi
de
ho●ine
,
Marc.
1.
)
then
to
be
answered
in
writing
;
●nd
therfore
it
is
no
more
wonder
to
heare
him
raile
,
●nd
rage
,
then
to
heare
a
goose
hisse
,
or
a
dogge
barke
●r
to
see
a
serpent
spit
his
poyson
,
or
any
other
crea●ure
to
do
according
to
his
kind
.
And
thus
much
for
●he
second
poynt
.
12.
The
third
is
my
Ignorance
(
forsooth
)
●n
the
latin
tongue
,
for
he
is
loath
,
as
he
sayth
,
to
●earch
my
more
hidden
schollership
,
and
yet
there
was
no
remedy
but
that
he
must
needs
first
h●●●
a
fling
at
my
greeke
(
though
by
the
way
of
a
Parenthesis
only
)
taxing
me
for
the
word
{αβγδ}
,
as
a●●●
for
{αβγδ}
,
accepit
genua
,
and
for
{αβγδ}
a●qualis
;
but
as
for
the
first
,
to
wit
,
{αβγδ}
,
whi●●
I
cyted
out
of
Homer
,
it
was
an
euident
errour
i●
the
print
,
easily
committed
in
the
change
of
the
ta●●
letters
ς
and
φ
,
into
ι
and
ψ
,
so
as
the
word
should
〈◇〉
.
And
I
doubt
not
but
that
the
indiffere●●
Reader
will
easily
conceaue
,
that
this
may
well
ha●●
happened
without
any
fault
of
myne
,
if
he
conside●●
that
my
Adioynder
was
printed
many
hundred
of
miles
from
me
;
whereas
M.
Collins
his
booke
,
being
printed
vnder
his
owne
nose
,
is
so
full
of
faulte●
escaped
in
the
print
,
that
he
hath
corrected
in
a
table
for
that
purpose
very
neere
60.
besides
many
more
,
which
may
be
noted
,
and
are
not
corrected
.
An●
whereas
some
of
those
which
are
there
set
downe
a●●
in
Latin
,
some
in
Greeke
,
and
some
in
English
.
I
thinke
he
would
hold
me
to
be
very
impertinent
,
if
I
should
taxe
him
with
ignorance
in
any
of
the
three
tongues
for
any
of
those
errours
,
though
they
were
not
corrected
.
But
as
for
{αβγδ}
,
sure
I
am
that
th●
wordes
are
so
in
Homer
,
Iliad
.
1.
and
therefore
I
cannot
ghesse
what
he
blameth
therein
,
except
perhaps
he
be
himself
so
ignorant
,
as
to
say
,
that
is
should
be
{αβγδ}
,
not
knowing
that
the
Poets
doe
cast
away
the
augment
,
when
occasion
requires
.
And
if
the
Latin
translation
doth
displease
him
,
and
that
perhaps
he
would
say
,
praehendit
genua
,
and
not
●ccepit
genua
,
I
graunt
indeed
that
it
might
be
●ayd
so
more
elegantly
,
but
seeing
that
{αβγδ}
doth
●ommonly
signify
accipere
,
it
seemed
to
me
sufficient
●o
giue
the
more
litterall
,
and
common
signification
●f
the
greeke
word
,
and
not
to
hunt
after
elegancy
.
Lastly
whereas
he
carpeth
at
{αβγδ}
,
or
aequalis
,
say●ng
also
that
Father
Eudaemon
Ioannes
tript
at
●he
same
stone
,
I
know
not
what
fault
he
findeth
ei●her
in
the
greek
or
in
the
Latin
;
for
if
he
should
deny
that
{αβγδ}
,
or
yet
{αβγδ}
;
doth
signify
aequalis
,
he
should
●e
too
to
ignorant
,
and
absurd
;
and
sure
I
am
,
that
he
will
not
deny
it
,
but
will
haue
it
to
signisy
so
;
&
ther●ore
I
wonder
why
he
sayth
,
that
it
is
the
stone
wherat
we
tripped
,
seeing
that
neither
of
vs
deny
it
,
albeit
we
do
indeed
both
say
that
it
doth
signify
also
similis
,
like
.
And
if
that
be
the
petra
scandali
wherat
we
stumbled
,
why
doth
he
not
confute
it
,
or
at
least
make
some
mention
of
it
?
For
all
that
he
sayth
concerning
my
ignorance
in
this
point
,
is
this
:
Also
,
sayth
he
,
{αβγδ}
for
aequalis
pag
.
44.
the
very
same
stone
that
his
reuerent
Father
tript
at
before
.
So
he
,
wherin
you
see
,
he
speaketh
not
a
word
of
similis
.
but
only
of
aequalis
,
which
neuerthelesse
both
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
and
he
himself
do
take
to
be
the
true
signification
of
{αβγδ}
,
and
therefore
they
vrge
against
vs
the
wordes
aequalia
priuilegia
,
in
the
latin
translation
of
the
Councell
of
Chalcedon
,
where
the
Greeke
is
{αβγδ}
,
so
as
you
way
marueile
with
me
,
what
the
man
meaneth
heere
;
and
note
also
how
substantially
he
prooueth
my
ignorance
in
the
Greeke
:
therefore
now
l●●
vs
see
what
he
sayth
to
my
Latin
.
13.
First
,
sayth
he
pag
.
40.
cap
.
2.
num
.
3.
because
the
Bishop
had
sayd
,
legat
canone
mustum
,
ne
maiora
sed
aequalia
sint
priuilegia
,
&c.
He
thus
:
whereas
he
sayes
that
the
Councel
of
Chalcedon
did
by
that
Canon
giue
to
the
Bi
hop
of
Constantinople
ne
maiora
sed
aequalia
priuilegia
&c.
which
though
it
be
the
reseruing
of
the
word
ne
in
both
places
,
yet
euery
meane
Latinist
easily
sees
that
ne
should
haue
beene
turned
into
non
in
the
later
place
,
if
he
meane
any
sense
should
be
in
his
sentence
,
as
he
began
it
,
and
therefore
I
ca●
impute
it
to
nothing
but
to
his
lacke
of
skill
in
the
rudiments
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
wherin
I
beseech
you
to
note
,
that
he
himselfe
acknowledgeth
that
in
my
allegation
of
my
Lords
words
,
I
preserue
the
word
ne
,
euen
as
my
Lord
hath
it
,
thogh
he
sayth
it
should
haue
beene
turned
into
non
to
make
it
good
Latin
is
the
later
place
where
I
repeate
it
;
which
obiection
of
his
would
haue
beene
of
little
force
if
he
had
not
fraudulently
ended
his
allegation
of
my
text
with
an
&c.
insteed
of
setting
downe
my
translation
of
my
Lords
words
which
immediatly
followed
.
For
hauing
sayd
(
as
you
haue
seene
heere
alleadged
by
him
)
That
the
Councell
of
Chalcedon
did
giue
to
the
Bishop
of
Constantinople
,
ne
maiora
sed
aequalia
per
omnia
priuilegia
,
I
translated
those
la●●n
words
thus
,
not
greater
but
equall
priui●●dges
in
all
thinges
,
wherby
you
may
euident●●
see
,
that
I
tooke
ne
for
non
,
translating
ne
ma●●ra
,
not
grea●er
though
I
was
scrupulous
to
repeat
●●y
Lords
words
otherwayes
then
I
found
thē
in
him
,
●nd
therefore
I
preserued
the
word
ne
in
both
places
,
●ecause
my
Lord
hath
ne
&
not
non
;
for
I
know
not
●ny
such
r●le
of
construction
,
or
congruity
to
be
obser●ed
,
betwixt
Latin
,
and
English
,
as
might
bind
me
〈◇〉
alter
his
Latin
word
,
when
I
meant
to
giue
the
●●ue
sense
of
it
,
as
you
see
I
did
in
translating
it
,
which
〈◇〉
I
haue
sayd
M.
Collins
dissembled
,
and
con●ealed
,
least
it
might
help
to
discouer
the
vanity
of
his
●euill
;
and
therefore
wheras
he
sayth
,
that
ne
should
●aue
beene
turned
into
non
in
the
Latin
to
make
●●ue
sense
in
my
sentence
,
I
remit
it
to
thy
iudgment
●ood
Reader
whether
taking
the
Latin
togeat●er
●ith
my
translation
(
which
he
concealed
)
the
sense
be
●ot
both
true
,
and
cleare
in
my
sentence
,
and
his
solly
●nd
fraud
notorious
in
this
his
first
instance
;
so
as
●ow
I
may
passe
to
the
second
,
which
you
shall
see
to
●e
more
friuolous
,
and
foolish
then
the
former
.
14.
He
alleadgeth
the
words
of
my
Adioyn●er
out
of
my
second
Cha●ter
nu
.
6.
pag
.
42.
where
〈◇〉
say
thus
:
It
is
sayd
expresly
of
the
Church
●f
Constantinople
that
it
should
be
magnifyed
&
extolled
as
old
Rome
was
,
secundam
post
●llam
existentem
.
Thus
sayd
I
,
which
he
layeth
downe
,
and
then
proceedeeh
in
these
wordes
:
This
is
the
letter
I
graunt
,
in
the
Councel
of
Chalcedon
,
but
almost
killing
Priscian
,
as
he
sets
it
downe
,
for
secunda
post
illam
existens
,
the
Church
of
Constantinople
(
to
which
that
refers
)
being
Ecclesia
,
and
not
Ecclesiam
,
in
his
period
,
&
so
to
be
translated
if
it
were
to
be
put
in
Latin
.
So
he
.
Graunting
as
you
see
,
that
I
lay
downe
truly
the
Latin
words
(
to
wit
secundā
post
illam
existentem
)
as
they
are
in
the
Councell
of
Chalcedon
,
albeit
being
referred
to
the
English
which
goeth
before
,
they
do
not
,
as
he
supposeth
,
make
good
construction
with
it
,
and
so
do
almost
kill
P●●scian
.
But
this
is
much
like
vnto
the
former
,
for
wheras
I
had
a
little
before
alleadged
the
whole
Canon
of
the
Councell
in
English
&
concluded
the
same
with
those
wordes
in
Latin
(
which
were
the
very
words
of
the
Councell
,
and
most
to
be
noted
for
the
matter
then
in
controuersy
)
I
had
occasion
a
little
after
to
vrge
the
same
words
,
and
repeated
them
againe
in
such
sort
,
as
M.
Collins
hath
noted
,
translating
them
immediatly
thus
,
being
the
second
after
her
,
which
translation
being
also
concealed
by
M.
Collins
,
as
the
former
was
,
agreeth
both
with
the
Latin
,
which
I
alleadged
,
and
with
the
English
which
went
before
,
and
made
the
sense
perfect
;
so
as
all
the
incongruity
which
M.
Collins
doth
imagine
in
my
wordes
,
is
betwixt
the
Latin
and
the
English
;
and
therefore
to
make
good
this
his
conceit
of
errour
and
ignorance
in
me
,
he
must
frame
some
new
Grammer
with
rules
,
and
precepts
ordayning
a
new
●●
nd
of
construction
(
neuer
yet
heard
of
)
to
be
obser●●d
betwixt
two
diuers
languages
,
whereof
indeed
I
●cknowledge
my selfe
to
be
ignorant
.
15.
But
what
will
you
say
,
if
he
himselfe
do
●ustify
me
in
this
,
and
eyther
defend
me
against
him
●elfe
,
or
els
condemne
himselfe
of
ignorance
aswell
●s
me
?
will
you
not
take
him
for
a
very
wise
,
and
●onsider
at
doctor
?
In
the
4.
chapter
of
my
Adionder
,
〈◇〉
alleadged
a
place
of
Optatus
,
beginning
thus
;
Legimus
principem
nostrum
&c.
we
read
that
Peter
our
Prynce
receaued
the
whol●ome
keys
against
the
gates
of
hell
&c.
And
M.
Collins
comming
to
answer
this
place
in
his
4
.
●hapter
.
nu
.
27.
saith
thus
.
Yet
in
the
same
booke
Optatus
calles
Siricius
in
playne
tearmes
not
princeps
noster
,
but
socius
noster
,
our
fryend
,
●nd
fellow
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
and
now
I
may
say
to
him
,
as
you
heard
him
say
to
me
a
little
●efore
,
(
mutatis
mutandis
)
this
is
the
let●er
I
grant
in
Optatus
,
but
almost
killing
Priscian
,
as
he
sets
it
downe
;
for
as
M.
Collins
exacteth
of
me
a
Grammaticall
construction
betwixt
the
latyn
and
the
English
in
t●e
former
sentence
,
so
may
I
also
,
eodem
iure
,
exact
the
same
of
him
here
betwixt
the
verbe
call
,
and
the
nownes
princeps
,
and
socius
,
which
should
therefore
be
●n
the
accusatiue
case
;
but
if
he
say
,
that
princeps
,
and
socius
,
in
him
,
must
be
the
nominatiue
case
〈◇〉
agree
with
Siricius
(
because
he
saith
,
that
〈◇〉
calls
Siricius
not
princeps
,
but
socius
noster
&c.
)
I
say
that
Siricius
being
a
proper
name
,
i●
English
aswell
as
latyn
,
and
therfore
may
passe
s●
in
all
cases
,
without
variation
,
what
English
wor●
soeuer
doth
gouerne
it
:
but
Princeps
,
and
socius
,
being
pure
latin
wordes
must
according
to
M.
Collins
his
new
grammar
haue
a
latyn
construction
,
&
therefore
being
gouerned
by
the
verbe
call
,
they
must
be
in
the
accusatiue
case
.
And
if
he
wil
haue
Siricius
in
that
sentence
to
be
a
pure
latyn
word
,
and
not
english
,
then
he
should
haue
said
by
his
own
rule
,
that
Optatus
called
Siricium
,
and
not
Syricius
,
so
as
let
Syricius
be
what
language
he
will
(
I
meane
English
or
latin
)
he
should
haue
sayd
of
him
,
that
Optatus
called
him
,
not
principem
nostrum
,
but
socium
nostrum
.
Doe
you
see
now
how
the
poore
man
is
ouer
taken
here
?
for
eyther
he
must
cleare
me
of
the
ignorance
,
which
he
imputeth
to
me
,
or
els
he
must
condemne
himself
as
much
as
me
,
in
so
much
that
the
wordes
of
the
Apostle
,
Rom.
2.
may
be
iustly
applyed
vnto
him
,
in
quo
iudicas
alterum
,
te
ipsum
condemnas
;
eadem
enim
agis
quae
iudicas
.
Thou
condemnest
thy self
in
that
wherein
thou
iudgest
another
,
for
thou
doest
the
same
thinges
which
thou
iudgest
;
thus
much
for
the
second
poynt
.
16.
Thirdly
he
obiecteth
my
translation
of
these
words
of
S.
Aug.
pag
.
149.
componit
salutem
mem●rorum
in
capite
,
which
I
englished
thus
;
he
compounded
the
health
of
the
members
in
the
head
,
and
in
this
translation
,
he
taketh
exception
to
the
word
compounded
,
because
compounding
of
health
,
saith
he
,
is
a
phrase
scarse
fit
to
be
vsed
by
Apothecaryes
,
or
theyr
boyes
,
much
lesse
by
Phisitians
,
but
least
of
all
by
him
that
would
seeme
to
know
the
latyn
,
and
to
english
S.
Augustin
.
So
he
.
Whereto
I
answere
,
that
whereas
he
vndertooke
to
shew
my
ignorance
in
the
latyn
tongue
,
the
fault
which
he
findeth
here
is
only
in
my
English
,
so
as
the
question
is
,
whether
to
compound
health
,
be
a
good
english
phrase
?
the
truth
is
,
that
I
vsed
the
word
compound
,
because
it
is
a
true
english
word
(
though
deriued
of
the
latin
)
and
doth
signify
the
same
that
compono
doth
in
latyn
;
and
forasmuch
as
the
very
latyn
phrase
of
componere
salutem
,
is
somewhat
strange
,
and
that
there
did
not
occurre
vnto
me
any
other
proper
english
word
to
explicate
the
same
,
I
thought
it
better
to
translate
it
so
,
according
to
the
very
letter
(
which
I
alwayes
do
as
neere
as
I
can
)
then
to
vse
circumlocutions
,
and
multiplicity
of
wordes
,
when
it
may
be
auoided
;
and
truly
it
were
no
great
maruell
,
nor
would
giue
(
as
I
hope
)
any
great
scandall
to
my
reader
,
if
hauing
been
out
of
my
country
aboue
40.
yeares
,
I
should
eyther
want
now
and
then
a
proper
english
word
,
or
erre
in
some
English
phrase
,
considering
the
grea●
mutation
,
and
change
of
the
English
tongue
synce
I
came
thence
,
which
in
deed
I
haue
noted
to
be
such
in
those
few
English
bookes
which
I
haue
seen
,
that
I
do
not
sometymes
well
vnderstand
them
;
and
none
that
I
haue
read
do
seeme
to
me
so
extrauagant
for
strange
,
and
new
fangled
wordes
and
phrases
as
M.
Col●ins
;
as
for
example
,
when
he
sayth
heer
a
little
after
,
that
the
translatours
Latin
is
not
afrayd
of
a
●ar
nycer
teste
;
also
pag
.
260.
that
s
the
blindation
.
Likewise
pag
.
307
,
reliquations
,
pag
.
365.
circumgestation
,
pag
.
395.
inerrablenes
,
pag
.
273.
to
●renlace
,
pag
.
156.
Cicero
Rhetoricates
of
Pompey
,
pag
.
266.
hypercriticall
:
and
in
his
epistle
to
his
Maiesty
,
intimity
,
and
personating
another
,
in
the
abstracts
of
his
second
part
num
.
4.
mistakes
of
memory
not
sonticall
.
And
finally
to
omit
many
other
,
whereas
I
do
once
in
my
Adioynder
vse
the
word
cult
pag
.
388.
(
saying
that
Vigilantius
tooke
adoration
for
a
diuine
cult
,
and
worship
)
he
sayth
pag
.
371.
that
I
am
so
cult
,
and
so
quilted
in
my
tearmes
&c.
where
you
see
,
that
cult
,
as
I
vse
it
,
is
so
fully
explicated
,
with
the
word
worship
and
the
circumstances
,
that
no
man
can
doubt
of
the
sense
therof
;
wheras
his
cult
,
and
his
quilted
are
so
obscure
,
that
for
my
part
,
I
know
not
what
he
meaneth
thereby
:
and
sure
I
am
,
that
the
other
wordes
also
aboue
mentioned
,
would
not
haue
passed
for
good
English
in
my
tyme
,
howsoeuer
they
do
now
,
●hich
I
leaue
,
good
Reader
,
to
thy
iudgment
.
And
●is
shall
suffice
for
his
third
instance
.
17.
His
fourth
is
,
that
I
haue
marred
my
●●rd
of
Winchesters
latin
with
my
addle
cor●uptions
,
because
I
alleadged
my
Lords
wordes
:
●oncludit
testes
suos
Augustino
,
with
the
addition
of
cum
,
which
my
Lord
hath
not
;
&
againe
that
I
alleadge
scrutabitur
Hierusalem
cum
●ucernis
.
Sophon
.
1.
for
in
lucernis
,
either
adding
to
the
scripture
,
sayth
he
,
or
correcting
●he
ould
translators
latin
,
or
both
,
wherof
he
counteth
the
one
impious
,
and
the
other
ridiculous
;
of
all
which
he
hath
no
other
ground
,
but
his
owne
malice
.
For
although
I
alleadged
my
Lords
words
,
and
the
text
of
Scripture
,
so
as
he
sayth
,
because
I
trusted
to
my
memory
,
yet
it
is
euident
,
that
there
is
no
corruption
,
nor
any
kind
of
fraud
therein
,
nor
change
of
the
sense
,
or
meaning
,
seeing
that
in
any
allegation
of
my
Lords
wordes
,
cum
is
but
onely
superfluous
,
and
altereth
nothing
of
the
sense
;
neither
doth
it
marre
my
Lords
latin
in
such
sort
,
as
to
make
it
either
false
,
or
barbarous
;
for
albeit
I
graunt
,
that
it
may
well
be
sayd
,
as
my
Lord
hath
it
,
concludit
testes
suos
Augustino
,
yet
cum
Augustino
,
is
much
more
common
,
and
no
way
to
be
reprehended
:
and
whereas
I
haue
cum
lucernis
,
in
the
other
text
,
for
in
lucernis
,
it
is
euident
,
that
I
keep
the
〈◇〉
sense
,
as
it
may
appeare
by
the
Greeke
text
of
the
Septuaginta
,
which
hath
{αβγδ}
,
cum
lucerna
.
Therefore
this
would
not
haue
seemed
to
M.
Collins
any
great
matter
,
if
he
were
not
toot●
malicious
,
or
were
but
halfe
as
sauourable
to
me
,
as
he
would
●eeme
to
be
to
S.
Augustine
,
whome
be
excuseth
in
like
case
,
pag
.
133.
for
altering
certaine
words
of
S.
Cyprian
,
saying
:
That
though
he
altered
the
wordes
(
as
is
soone
done
(
sayth
he
)
in
allegations
of
memory
)
yet
he
keep●
the
sense
:
so
as
to
alter
wordes
in
allegations
of
memory
when
the
sense
is
kept
entyre
seemed
to
him
no
greater
matter
in
S.
Augustine
,
though
he
houldeth
the
like
in
me
,
to
be
a
heynous
crime
,
no
lesse
then
●mpious
,
and
a
notable
argument
of
my
ignoran●e
:
but
how
much
he
abuseth
S.
Augustine
with
what
needles
excuse
of
him
,
you
shall
see
in
my
fifth
Ch●pter
nu
.
11
12.13
.
&
14.
where
I
haue
occasion
to
speake
of
that
point
.
18.
But
what
need
I
alleadge
his
fauorable
excuse
of
S.
Augustine
in
this
,
when
he
is
fayne
to
make
a
serious
Apology
for
my
Lord
of
Winchester
in
like
manner
,
saying
thus
.
pag
.
266.
num
.
17.
The
most
reuerend
Bishop
neuer
sayd
of
himselfe
that
he
could
not
slip
in
matter
of
memory
.
Si
sciens
fallo
,
is
his
imprecation
.
So
Hieremy
for
Zachary
Matth
.
27.9
.
so
diuers
like
.
For
what
should
I
say
of
the
Fathers
quoting
Scripture
,
as
they
often
do
,
rather
as
it
was
in
their
memoryes
,
thē
as
we
read
it
in
the
text
?
And
yet
no
ho●est
learned
man
,
but
would
hould
such
●apes
for
very
veniall
I
imagine
.
So
he
,
●ith
more
to
the
same
purpose
concerning
the
forsayd
●istake
of
S.
Augustine
,
and
Ciceros
short
me●ory
touching
quotations
.
But
that
which
I
wish
to
●e
specially
noted
heere
,
that
he
condemneth
himselfe
〈◇〉
be
no
honest
learned
man
,
seeing
he
doth
not
●ould
a
scape
of
memory
in
me
to
be
very
veniall
●or
as
he
tearmeth
it
more
finely
in
his
table
not
●onticall
)
but
vrgeth
it
potently
for
impiety
,
and
a
●idiculous
absurdity
.
And
yet
truly
he
had
as
much
●eed
as
any
other
,
for
ought
I
see
,
to
plead
for
pardon
●n
this
behalfe
,
for
a
notable
mistake
,
and
scape
of
his
●wne
memory
in
the
very
same
page
of
his
Preface
within
8
or
9.
lynes
after
this
,
which
he
layeth
to
my
●harge
,
as
it
shall
appeare
now
presently
in
this
next
●nstance
.
19.
Thus
then
he
proceedeth
:
Repraesenta●e
Theodosium
in
liberis
,
is
to
giue
the
children
grace
to
be
like
their
Father
,
but
re●raesentare
defunctum
,
is
to
supply
the
losse
of
the
dead
,
by
yealding
another
in
his
roome
,
which
S.
Augustine
wishes
may
be
of
the
posterity
.
So
he
.
Wherein
first
I
wish
●o
be
noted
,
that
I
do
alleadge
this
place
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
S.
Ambrose
his
funerall
oration
made
at
the
exequyes
of
Theodosius
the
Empe●our
,
which
you
see
M.
Collins
attributeth
to
S.
Augustine
.
Now
then
is
this
sonticall
,
or
no●
sonticall
?
veniall
,
or
mortall
?
if
it
be
veniall
〈◇〉
him
,
why
is
the
like
mortall
in
me
?
if
sontical●
in
me
,
why
not
sonticall
in
him
?
so
as
you
s●●
his
memory
is
no
better
then
other
mens
.
Secondly
t●
answer
also
to
his
obiection
in
this
instance
,
th●
wordes
of
S.
Ambrose
,
which
I
alleadged
are
these
Tu
so●us
Domine
inuocandus
es
,
tu
rogandus
,
vt
eum
in
filijs
repraesentes
,
which
I
translated
thus
:
Thou
O
Lord
alone
art
to
be
inuocated
,
thou
to
be
prayed
,
that
thou
mayst
represent
him
in
his
children
;
and
afterward
in
the
number
following
,
viz
33.
(
which
M.
Collins
quoteth
)
I
do
explicate
the
same
,
saying
that
S.
Ambrose
in
those
wordes
,
speaketh
of
prayer
to
a
particuler
purpose
,
to
wit
,
to
obtayn
grace
of
God
for
the
Emperours
children
,
to
make
them
like
their
father
.
And
how
doth
M.
Collins
confute
this
?
Marry
forsooth
●he
saith
,
that
repraesentare
defunctum
,
is
to
supply
the
losse
of
the
dead
Theodosius
,
by
yealding
another
in
his
roome
.
B●●
will
you
see
his
egregious
foolery
?
for
what
reason
or
need
had
S.
Ambrose
to
pray
,
that
the
children
of
Theodosius
might
succeed
him
,
and
be
in
his
roome
,
when
his
two
sonnes
Arcadius
,
and
Honorius
,
were
already
in
possession
of
the
Empyre
,
not
only
then
when
S.
Ambrose
made
that
oration
,
but
also
before
Theodosius
dyed
;
for
Arcadius
had
reigned
togeather
with
him
ten
yeares
,
and
Honorius
two
yeares
;
who
also
(
I
meane
Honorius
)
was
present
at
this
funerall
oration
(
as
it
appeareth
therin
,
)
Arcadius
being
gone
,
presen●ly
vpon
his
fathers
death
,
into
the
east
partes
,
which
were
assigned
,
and
allotted
to
him
for
his
gouerment
;
●ow
then
is
it
likely
that
S.
Ambrose
would
pray
●o
God
for
that
which
was
already
performed
long
●efore
,
and
then
in
vre
?
I
meane
that
his
roome
might
be
supplyed
by
some
of
his
posterity
?
what
the●●ould
he
meane
by
praying
God
to
represent
Theo●osius
in
his
children
,
but
only
to
make
then
like
●im
in
wisdome
,
and
valour
,
for
so
indeed
the
losse
●f
him
would
be
as
fully
supplyed
by
theyr
vertue
,
as
●is
roome
was
already
possessed
by
theyr
personall
suc●ession
.
And
yet
forsooth
M.
Collius
concludeth
a●ainst
me
thus
:
Does
not
this
,
saith
he
,
also
●rgue
him
a
solid
Latinist
?
But
I
may
say
of
●im
with
more
reason
,
Doth
not
this
argue
him
a
●olemne
foole
?
20.
But
what
will
you
say
if
his
next
instance
●e
as
wise
as
this
?
Marke
well
what
he
sayth
,
&
he
will
tell
you
so
himsel●e
.
Semblable
,
saith
he
,
is
that
cap
.
1.
nu
.
11.
where
thus
be
construes
the
Bishops
words
,
Clariùs
id
loquuntur
Ambrosius
,
&
Augustinus
,
quàm
vt
obstrepere
possint
nouitij
nostri
:
they
speak
it
lowder
or
clearer
,
then
that
our
nouices
can
con●radict
it
,
whereas
it
should
be
,
then
that
our
nouices
can
drown
it
,
for
a
man
may
contr●dict
that
which
is
neuer
so
clearely
spoken
;
drown
〈◇〉
or
suppresse
it
he
cannot
,
but
because
he
knew
not
〈◇〉
other
sense
of
the
word
obstrepo
(
as
in
Tully
p●●
Marc●llo
,
obstrepi
videntur
milirum
clam●re
&
tubarum
sono
)
therefore
he
commits
th●●
soloecisme
in
translating
.
Thus
sayth
this
accur●●
Grammaticall
,
and
hipercriticall
Doctour
,
w●●
you
see
telleth
you
,
that
this
is
semblable
to
the
former
:
&
truly
you
may
wel
belieue
him
;
for
he
playet●
the
foole
no
lesse
in
this
thē
he
did
in
the
other
.
He
telleth
you
of
a
great
soloecisme
,
which
he
sayth
〈◇〉
haue
committed
in
translating
obstrepere
,
to
contradict
;
because
I
knew
not
of
another
sense
it
hat●
in
Tully
p●o
Marcello
,
where
it
signifyeth
to
drowne
,
as
a
greater
sound
drowneth
a
lesse
;
an●
to
make
this
deuise
of
his
the
more
probable
,
he
vset●
a
pretty
sleight
to
corrupt
the
text
of
my
translation
;
for
whereas
I
translate
my
Lords
wordes
thus
:
Ambrose
,
and
Augustine
do
speake
(
or
affirme
)
it
more
plainely
then
that
ou●
Nouices
can
contradict
it
.
He
hath
it
in
a
different
letter
(
a
laying
downe
my
wordes
)
that
they
speake
it
lowder
or
clearer
thē
that
our
Nouices
ca●
contradict
it
;
Changing
the
word
plainly
into
lowder
&
clearer
,
to
draw
the
matter
to
a
soun●
that
his
inuention
of
drowning
it
,
may
seeme
to
hau●
the
more
ground
in
the
sentence
now
in
question
;
b●●
to
decyde
this
Grammaticall
Controuersy
I
remit
〈◇〉
●o
all
Dictionaryes
,
and
to
the
vse
of
that
word
in
●ll
Authours
;
for
although
it
doth
most
properly
sig●ify
to
make
a
kind
of
noyse
or
rustling
;
yet
it
inclu●eth
an
opposition
,
or
contradiction
,
as
when
a
noyse
〈◇〉
made
to
hinder
,
interrupt
,
or
contradict
some
bo●y
.
21.
Therfore
Calepine
doth
explicate
it
in
his
manner
,
contra
aliquem
strepitum
facio
,
●bloquor
,
contradico
.
The
like
we
read
also
in
Thesauro
Linguae
latinae
.
Also
Nizolius
,
●ho
professeth
to
giue
the
sense
of
Ciceronian
words
,
●nd
to
shew
how
Cicero
vseth
them
,
giueth
no
o●her
Sinonymum
of
obstrepo
,
but
obloquor
,
●hich
is
to
speake
against
,
or
contradict
;
&
to
these
〈◇〉
may
add
our
English
Dictionaryes
,
wherof
I
haue
●wo
heere
;
the
one
set
forth
in
Oxford
by
Ryder
,
●nd
the
other
in
Cambridge
by
Thomas
Thomasius
(
for
I
haue
not
Cooper
)
but
these
being
la●er
then
he
,
doe
by
all
likelyhood
,
either
agree
with
●im
,
or
correct
him
,
if
he
haue
erred
)
and
these
two
●re
very
consorme
to
the
latin
Dictionaryes
before
al●eadged
.
Ryder
hath
for
obstiepo
,
to
make
a
●oyse
,
or
otherwise
to
stir
against
,
to
trou●le
,
interrupt
,
or
be
against
.
And
Thomas
Thomasius
,
hath
also
the
very
same
:
so
as
all
these
●o
iustify
my
transl●tion
of
obstrepere
,
to
contra●ict
.
And
as
for
the
reasons
which
M.
Collins
●ringeth
to
the
contrary
,
they
are
indeed
worthy
of
●is
profound
wit
,
and
skill
in
Grammer
.
The
first
is
,
That
a
man
may
contradict
that
which
i●
neuer
so
clearely
spoken
;
drown
it
,
or
suppresse
it
he
cannot
.
So
he
.
But
by
his
leaue
when
any
thing
is
so
cleare
,
that
it
cannot
be
impugned
,
or
gainesayd
with
any
shew
of
reason
,
it
ma●
well
be
sayd
,
and
is
sayd
commonly
,
that
it
cannot
b●
contradicted
,
supposing
that
it
cannot
be
done
with
reason
.
For
as
the
Lawyers
say
,
hoc
possumus
,
quod
iure
possumus
,
we
may
do
that
,
which
w●
may
do
by
right
,
and
reason
.
22.
Moreouer
wheras
he
confirmeth
his
idle
conceit
with
an
example
out
of
Tully
pro
Marcello
(
wherin
obstrepi
militum
clamore
,
doth
signify
,
as
he
sayth
,
to
be
drowned
)
he
sheweth
himselfe
to
be
a
silly
Grammarian
;
for
put
the
case
,
that
it
should
signify
so
there
,
will
be
therfore
restrayne
it
alwayes
to
that
sense
:
and
by
that
example
,
reduce
all
the
seuerall
significations
of
obstrepere
,
to
drowning
,
as
if
it
did
or
could
signify
nothing
els
?
Then
le●
him
tell
me
,
whether
it
shall
signify
to
drowne
also
in
Cicero
,
when
he
sayth
in
his
Epistle
to
Metellus
vt
tibi
literis
ostrepere
non
auderem
,
which
Thomas
Thomasius
expoundeth
to
trouble
with
letters
;
but
according
to
M.
Collins
,
Cicero
durst
not
drowne
Metellus
with
his
Letters
.
Also
in
his
third
booke
de
Oratore
,
speaking
of
some
Oratours
that
were
so
obscure
by
the
multitude
,
&
confusion
of
strange
wordes
,
that
they
hindred
and
confounded
themselues
,
he
sayth
,
ipsi
sibi
quodammodo
obstrepere
videntur
.
Shall
we
then
say
that
●hose
Oratours
did
drowne
themselues
?
Yea
,
but
that
will
you
say
,
if
obstrepi
clamore
militum
●e
expounded
by
an
approued
Author
,
to
be
cryed
out
●gainst
which
is
in
effect
to
be
contradicted
?
Will
●ot
that
,
trow
you
,
suffice
to
make
good
my
translati●n
?
So
doth
●homas
Thomasius
expound
it
in
his
Dictionary
,
printed
the
fourth
tyme
in
Cambridge
,
and
therefore
belike
approued
by
the
whole
Vniuersity
;
&
if
I
should
graunt
him
,
that
ostrepe●e
in
my
Lords
sentence
may
be
translated
to
drown
,
that
should
he
gayne
thereby
?
Is
it
not
cleare
,
that
the
same
also
must
needs
include
a
gaine
saying
,
or
a
contradiction
,
as
to
say
,
that
S.
Ambrose
,
or
S.
Augustine
do
speake
it
lowder
then
any
contradiction
shal
be
able
to
drown
it
?
Or
that
it
cannot
be
drowned
by
any
contradiction
?
Or
by
any
man
that
shall
contradict
,
or
impugne
it
?
But
now
take
away
his
forgery
of
the
word
lowder
,
which
he
hath
foisted
into
my
translation
,
insteed
of
more
plainly
,
there
is
no
appearance
in
the
world
why
obstrepere
should
signify
there
to
drown
.
And
how
ridiculous
is
he
to
translate
clariùs
,
lowder
?
For
who
would
say
of
those
Fathers
,
that
they
speake
or
say
any
thing
lowder
,
when
the
same
may
be
more
properly
expressed
after
the
ordinary
manner
,
by
more
clearely
,
more
plainly
,
or
more
manifestly
,
as
the
word
clariùs
doth
indeed
import
?
So
as
his
folly
is
no
lesse
manifest
in
this
then
his
fraud
.
Finally
if
we
consider
aswell
the
nature
of
the
word
obstrepere
,
as
also
my
Lords
scope
,
and
drift
in
that
sentence
,
it
will●e
euident
,
that
it
is
so
farre
from
signifying
to
drowne
by
any
lowd
kind
of
contradiction
,
that
it
rather
signifyeth
the
quite
contrary
,
to
wit
,
to
contradict
by
way
of
muttering
,
as
to
say
,
in
effect
thus
:
Those
fathers
do
speake
or
affirme
it
so
manifestly
,
that
none
can
so
much
as
whisper
,
mutter
,
or
open
his
mouth
against
it
;
for
no
doubt
my
Lordes
meaning
was
that
the
matter
was
so
cleare
,
and
manifest
in
S.
Ambrose
,
and
S.
Augustine
,
that
it
could
not
admit
the
least
contradiction
in
the
world
:
and
to
this
purpose
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
he
who
added
the
English
to
the
other
languages
in
Calepine
,
did
very
well
expresse
the
nature
of
the
word
obstrepere
,
expounding
it
in
English
to
hisse
,
or
mutter
against
,
which
is
farre
from
crying
out
so
lowd
,
as
to
drowne
any
thing
by
force
of
voyce
.
Thus
much
to
his
sixt
instance
,
wherby
you
see
how
good
a
Grammarian
he
is
.
23.
His
seauenth
and
last
,
is
sutable
to
the
former
for
fraud
,
foolery
,
and
ignorance
.
But
to
the
end
you
may
the
better
vnderstand
the
whole
matter
,
I
must
first
acquainte
you
with
the
occasion
thereof
which
was
this
.
Cardinall
Bellarmine
for
the
proofe
of
S.
Peters
supremacy
ouer
the
Apostles
,
and
the
whole
Church
,
alleadged
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
out
of
his
sermons
de
tempore
,
serm
.
124.
in
these
wordes
:
Totius
corporis
morbum
in
ipso
capite
curat
Ecclesiae
&c.
He
(
to
wit
,
Christ
)
cureth
the
disease
of
the
whole
body
in
the
very
head
of
the
Church
,
and
con●oundeth
the
health
of
all
the
members
,
in
●pso
vertice
,
that
is
to
say
,
in
the
very
crowne
,
or
top
of
the
head
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
●lleadged
by
the
Cardinall
.
To
this
my
Lord
of
Winchester
answered
two
wayes
;
the
one
reiecting
●he
sermon
whence
the
place
was
taken
,
as
not
S.
S.
Augustins
,
because
,
sayth
he
there
were
no
●ermons
de
tempore
in
S.
Augustines
tyme
,
whereof
I
proued
the
contrary
at
large
in
my
Adioynder
cap
.
4.
num
.
21.
22.
&
23.
His
other
answere
was
,
that
the
Cardinall
had
produced
that
testimony
of
S.
Augustine
very
vnluckily
,
because
it
giueth
vs
notice
,
sayth
he
,
of
no
other
head
but
of
a
sickly
head
,
nor
of
any
other
crowne
of
a
head
,
but
of
a
crazed
,
or
crakt
crowne
.
Thus
sayd
my
Lord
of
S.
Peter
,
&
then
addeth
further
thus
:
Praesertim
cùm
eumdem
morbum
in
capite
vestro
notarint
diu
iam
medicorum
filij
,
etsi
omnes
non
ego
,
id
est
,
plus
ego
quàm
omnes
,
that
is
to
say
,
especially
seeing
that
the
Phisitians
children
haue
now
a
long
tyme
noted
the
same
disease
in
your
head
,
althogh
all
not
I
that
is
to
say
,
I
more
then
all
.
Thus
sayd
my
Lord
,
which
seemed
to
me
very
mysticall
,
and
so
like
a
riddle
,
that
I
was
fayne
to
ghesse
at
his
meaning
,
and
to
make
diuers
constructions
of
it
,
touching
aswell
the
Phisitians
,
as
their
children
,
and
specially
concerning
the
wordes
etsi
omnes
non
ego
,
id
est
,
plus
ego
quàm
omnes
,
of
which
I
sayd
thus
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
153.
num
.
33.
24.
But
although
we
may
ghesse
,
who
were
the
Physitians
,
and
their
children
,
yet
it
will
not
be
so
easy
to
coniecture
what
he
meaneth
by
etsi
omnes
non
ego
,
id
est
,
plus
ego
quàm
omnes
,
although
all
not
I
,
that
is
to
say
,
I
more
then
all
for
truly
I
haue
shewed
it
to
diuers
,
and
haue
not
found
two
that
agree
in
the
interpretation
of
it
;
but
the
most
probable
seemeth
to
be
the
one
of
two
;
one
is
,
that
he
alludeth
to
the
wordes
of
S.
Peter
,
when
he
sayd
,
etsi
omnes
scandalizati
fuerint
,
sed
non
ego
,
althogh
all
shal
be
scandalized
,
yet
not
I
,
who
neuertheles
was
scandalized
more
then
they
all
,
because
he
alone
denyed
his
Maister
;
which
sense
hath
great
difficulty
,
because
it
neither
hath
connexion
with
that
which
goeth
immediatly
before
,
nor
is
truely
applyable
to
the
Pope
(
of
whome
M.
Andrewes
seemeth
there
to
treate
)
but
is
only
contumelions
to
S.
Peter
(
being
a
taunting
kind
of
exprobation
of
his
fall
)
and
therefore
me
thinkes
M.
Andrewes
should
not
admit
it
to
be
his
meaning
,
as
sauouring
to
much
of
impiety
.
The
other
sense
is
,
that
it
should
be
referred
to
M.
Andrewes
himselfe
,
and
that
there
is
some
little
fault
in
the
print
,
I
meane
in
the
points
,
though
not
in
the
words
,
which
therefore
should
be
pointed
thus
,
etsi
omnes
,
non
ego
?
And
if
all
,
not
I
?
that
is
to
say
,
of
all
haue
noted
this
disease
in
your
head
,
why
should
not
I
note
it
?
Giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
he
will
not
yeald
to
any
of
his
brethren
for
zeale
,
and
skill
in
noting
the
faults
of
Popes
,
but
rather
plus
ego
quàm
omnes
,
that
is
to
say
,
therein
will
I
go
beyond
them
all
;
which
sense
hath
at
least
some
good
coherence
with
the
precedent
clause
,
and
well
befitteth
,
M.
Andrewes
his
zeale
to
the
Ghospell
,
and
hatred
to
the
Pope
,
and
so
may
passe
for
his
meaning
.
25.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
,
making
two
expositions
of
my
Lords
words
:
the
former
,
as
you
may
well
perceaue
,
more
serious
then
the
later
:
neuertheles
M.
Collins
maketh
no
mention
of
the
former
,
but
taketh
hould
of
the
later
,
because
I
deuided
etsi
,
into
et
and
si
,
and
make
an
interrogatiue
at
ego
?
Whereupon
he
sayth
thus
:
These
are
the
fopperyes
of
this
great
gul
,
&
you
see
how
profound
an
vnderstander
of
the
Latin
he
is
,
that
he
is
fayn
to
point
the
Bishops
wordes
a
new
,
with
his
senseles
interrogatiues
,
before
he
can
construe
them
or
misconster
them
rather
,
as
likewise
to
deuide
them
,
and
clip
them
by
turning
etsi
into
et
,
and
si
,
but
lastly
to
deuise
a
difference
betweene
,
medici
and
medicorum
filij
,
a
most
palpable
demonstration
of
his
vnmatchable
dunsery
,
&
like
the
boy
in
the
Grammer
schoole
,
that
construed
pullus
equinus
,
a
horse
chicken
.
Thus
raueth
M.
Collins
,
carping
at
this
my
construction
,
which
any
man
may
see
I
made
Ironicè
,
and
by
the
way
of
iest
,
to
play
a
little
vpon
my
Lords
obscure
manner
of
writing
,
wherein
nothing
was
so
cleare
as
his
blasphemy
against
S.
Peter
,
which
indeed
moued
me
to
treate
his
Lordship
with
lesse
respect
then
otherwayes
I
would
haue
don
,
though
at
that
tyme
I
esteemed
him
for
no
better
thē
D.
Andrewes
.
But
M.
Collins
(
to
the
end
he
might
the
better
charge
me
not
only
with
ignorance
in
vnderstanding
the
Latin
,
but
also
with
falsity
in
changing
the
points
,
and
in
clipping
,
and
deuiding
the
wordes
)
wholy
dissembleth
aswell
my
whole
text
,
as
my
other
more
serious
interpretation
,
wherof
he
maketh
no
mention
at
all
,
but
layeth
load
vpon
this
,
as
if
I
had
giuen
it
alone
,
and
in
good
earnest
:
which
putteth
me
in
mind
of
what
he
sayd
of
me
in
his
third
Chapter
pag
.
146.
because
I
reproued
my
Lord
of
Winchester
for
saying
that
Card
.
Bellarmin
did
imitate
or
follow
Iouinian
,
which
M.
Collins
sayth
,
my
Lord
sayd
in
iest
,
and
therefore
he
calleth
me
a
Rustique
,
and
an
arrant
Clowne
,
not
discerning
,
sayth
he
,
what
is
iest
,
and
what
is
earnest
.
But
if
that
be
a
true
property
of
an
arrant
Clowne
,
then
truly
M.
Collins
may
passe
properly
for
one
,
and
a
kindly
one
,
who
will
needes
take
such
an
euident
iest
(
as
that
of
myne
was
)
for
earnest
and
deny
that
of
my
Lordes
to
be
earnest
,
which
no
man
that
reades
it
can
take
for
a
iest
,
but
for
a
meer
●aunder
,
as
may
be
seene
in
my
Adioynder
cap
.
3.
num
.
22.
28.
&
sequent
.
26.
Moreouer
I
cannot
but
wonder
why
he
●counteth
it
an
vnmatchable
Dunsery
in
me
,
to
make
a
difference
betwixt
medici
,
and
medicorum
filij
(
because
I
did
descant
a
little
vpon
it
,
examining
who
might
be
the
Fathers
,
&
who
the
sonns
)
for
I
cannot
conceaue
,
that
either
there
can
be
a
son
without
a
Father
,
or
an
identity
betwixt
any
Father
&
his
sonne
except
in
the
Blessed
Trinity
,
wherin
neuerthelesse
there
is
a
reall
,
and
true
distinction
of
persons
,
and
much
more
in
all
creatures
;
and
therfore
except
he
can
tell
me
of
some
mens
sonnes
(
be
they
Phisitians
or
others
)
that
are
all
one
with
their
Fathers
,
he
may
go
for
an
vnmatchable
dunse
himselfe
,
to
hould
it
for
an
vnmatchable
dunsery
in
me
to
make
a
difference
betwixt
medici
,
and
medicorum
filij
,
shewing
himselfe
to
be
as
wise
,
as
the
Grammar
schoole-boy
,
of
whome
he
speaketh
;
for
as
the
foolish
boy
tooke
a
horse
colt
for
a
horse
chicken
,
so
this
silly
Doctor
taketh
a
horse
and
a
colt
for
all
one
,
and
therefore
if
the
boy
had
beene
demaunded
,
what
is
pullus
asininu●
,
he
might
haue
sayd
very
truly
,
that
i●
signifyeth
M.
D.
Collins
.
27.
But
to
proceed
to
the
conclusion
of
this
point
,
be
censureth
the
relation
which
I
make
of
plus
ego
quàm
omnes
,
to
S.
Peter
,
as
a
token
of
my
bad
latin
,
because
I
do
thereby
vnderstand
that
S.
Peter
was
more
scandalized
then
all
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
,
and
consequently
,
that
I
would
say
in
Latin
,
plus
scandalizatus
,
which
cannot
passe
for
currant
(
sayth
he
)
by
the
touch-stone
of
the
more
accurate
Grammarians
,
who
happily
would
no
more
say
,
plus
scandalizatus
,
for
more
scandalized
,
thē
plus
illiteratus
,
for
more
vnlearned
.
So
he
;
not
wholy
condemning
me
(
as
it
seemeth
)
of
false
latin
,
but
of
barbarisme
at
least
:
neuertheles
he
might
haue
considered
,
if
it
had
pleased
him
,
that
I
did
not
vse
that
phrase
as
my
owne
,
but
ascribed
it
only
to
my
Lord
;
and
for
as
much
as
his
Lordship
was
so
mysticall
,
and
obscure
in
that
sentence
,
that
he
was
scant
intelligible
,
I
had
no
reason
t●
thinke
that
he
did
speake
so
accurately
then
,
as
at
other
tymes
,
but
that
it
might
suffice
,
if
it
were
true
latin
though
perhaps
none
of
the
best
.
But
will
M.
Collins
maintayne
it
,
out
of
his
great
skill
in
Grammer
,
that
plus
scandalizatus
may
not
passe
for
currant
amongst
the
accurate
Grammarians
?
By
whome
trow
you
,
will
he
be
content
that
the
matter
betryed
?
By
Poets
?
By
Oratours
?
Or
by
both
?
For
my
part
I
am
content
to
remit
it
to
either
of
both
.
For
who
knoweth
not
that
plus
is
vsed
aswell
by
Oratours
as
by
Poets
for
magis
,
&
ioyned
with
verbs
and
participles
both
actiue
,
and
passiue
?
Nullum
adolescentem
plus
amo
,
sayth
Plautus
.
Mer
.
Diligo
illum
plus
in
dies
,
sayth
Cicero
ad
Atticum
lib
.
6.
Calesces
plus
satis
,
sayth
Terence
.
And
that
it
is
vsed
with
verbes
passiue
,
it
is
cleare
in
Cicero
ad
Atticum
,
who
sayth
,
caue
putes
plus
me
quemquam
o●uciari
.
28.
Now
then
I
would
gladly
know
of
the
●curate
grammarian
M.
Collins
what
difference
●he
findeth
for
the
construction
,
or
propriety
,
yea
or
elegancy
of
the
phrase
betwixt
plus
cruciari
,
and
plus
scandalizari
:
&
if
we
may
say
plus
cruciari
,
and
plus
scandalizari
,
why
not
plus
cruciatus
,
and
plus
scandalizarus
.
And
therefore
Plautus
in
True
.
made
no
doubt
to
say
,
plus
intromissus
,
for
magis
intromissus
.
D.
Non
ego
saith
he
,
nunc
intro
ad
vos
,
mittor
?
A.
qui
dum
?
quam
miles
magis
D.
quia
enim
plus
dedi
.
A.
plus
enim
es
intromissus
cùm
dabas
.
So
he
.
And
I
doubt
not
but
that
both
Cicero
,
and
Plautus
,
were
as
accurate
Grammarians
as
M.
Collins
,
and
that
they
had
the
touchstone
as
well
as
he
.
This
then
being
so
,
I
hope
I
may
also
goe
for
a
Grammarian
,
notwithstanding
these
exceptions
which
M.
Collins
hath
taken
against
my
skill
in
grammar
,
whereby
also
it
may
appeare
,
what
a
good
grammarian
,
and
latinist
he●s
,
who
can
so
litle
iudge
of
latyn
as
heer
you
haue
seene
.
And
to
the
end
that
the
same
may
be
yet
more
euident
,
I
will
acquaynt
you
with
some
of
his
translations
,
whereof
I
haue
not
had
occasion
to
speake
in
my
reply
.
I
omit
as
a
trifle
(
thought
I
am
sure
he
would
not
let
it
escape
in
me
,
without
an
ample
,
&
a
seuere
censure
)
that
he
translateth
sedula
for
dutifull
.
pag
.
111.
in
Pope
Leo's
epistle
to
the
Emperour
Martian
in
these
words
,
Et
precor
,
&
sedula
suggestione
vos
obsecro
.
I
pray
,
and
beseech
you
(
sayth
he
)
dutifully
,
aduising
or
informing
,
and
this
he
translateth
in
this
manner
,
to
proue
that
Pope
Leo
did
make
suite
to
the
Emperour
with
acknowledgment
of
duty
;
but
because
he
translated
it
truly
before
,
saying
,
sedula
suggestione
,
by
diligent
suggestion
,
I
will
not
insist
vpon
it
,
but
will
let
you
see
how
wel
he
vnderstandeth
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
de
ciuitate
dei
.
lib
.
10.
cap
.
1.
S.
Augustins
wordes
are
these
.
Quia
latinè
loquendi
consuetudine
non
solùm
imperitorum
,
verum
etiam
doctissimorum
,
&
cognationibus
humanis
,
atque
affinitatibus
,
&
quibuscunque
necessitudinibus
dicitur
exhibenda
religio
,
non
eo
vocabulo
vitatur
ambiguum
,
cùm
de
cultu
Deitatis
vertitur
quaestio
.
&c.
For
asmuch
as
by
the
custome
of
speaking
latyn
,
not
only
of
the
ignoranct
but
also
of
the
best
learned
,
religion
is
to
be
exhibited
both
to
humane
kindreds
,
and
affinityes
,
and
also
to
all
kynd
of
alliance
,
and
association
(
by
friendship
,
or
otherwayes
)
the
ambiguity
is
not
auoyded
by
that
word
when
question
is
made
of
the
worship
of
the
Deity
&c.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
giuing
to
vnderstand
that
the
latin
word
Religio
is
equiuocall
,
and
ambiguous
,
signifying
not
only
the
worship
of
God
,
but
also
the
obseruance
,
or
reuerent
respect
due
to
all
kind
of
kindreds
,
and
alliances
,
and
to
proue
this
,
he
alleadgeth
the
common
vse
,
and
custome
〈◇〉
speach
aswell
of
the
ignorant
,
and
vnlearned
,
as
〈◇〉
the
best
learned
,
who
vse
the
word
in
both
senses
:
so
〈◇〉
it
is
to
be
obserued
heere
that
S.
Augustine
●●eaketh
of
the
custome
of
the
learned
,
and
vnlear●ed
.
29.
But
how
doth
M.
Collins
vnderstand
〈◇〉
?
Forsooth
the
ioyneth
the
wordes
imperitorum
●nd
doctissimorum
(
not
to
consuetudine
,
as
S.
Augustine
doth
,
but
)
to
affinitatibus
,
and
●ecessitudinibus
,
and
saith
thus
pag
.
369.
lin
.
●2
.
Exhibemus
religionem
(
sayth
S.
Augu●tine
)
quibuscumque
,
necessitudinibus
,
not
●nly
doctissimorum
,
but
also
imperitorum
.
To
●ll
these
we
performe
a
reuerence
of
religion
.
So
he
;
as
if
S.
Augustine
had
said
,
or
meant
,
that
a
kind
of
religious
respect
is
to
be
had
●o
the
kindred
,
and
alliances
aswell
of
the
vnlearned
,
as
of
the
learned
,
which
no
grammar
boy
that
could
but
construe
latyn
,
would
haue
so
much
mistaken
,
as
●e
hath
done
.
Besides
that
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
be
●hangeth
the
order
of
S.
Augustine
his
wordes
to
make
good
his
errour
;
for
whereas
S.
Augustine
saith
non
solùm
imperitorum
,
sed
etiam
doctissimorum
,
he
hath
it
,
non
solùm
doctissimorum
,
sed
etiam
imperitorum
;
wherein
●his
difference
is
to
be
obserued
,
that
S.
Augustine
●peaking
of
custome
or
manner
of
speach
,
had
reason
●o
make
more
account
of
the
custome
of
the
best
learned
,
then
of
the
ignorant
;
and
therefore
to
pro●●
that
the
word
Religion
is
ambiguous
,
he
said
that
not
only
the
ignorant
,
but
also
the
best
learned
vsed
i●
ambiguously
;
But
as
M.
Collins
hath
placed
the
wor●●
S
.
Augustine
should
seem
to
make
the
emphasis
vpon
the
ignorant
,
as
to
say
,
that
the
word
Religion
was
vsed
ambiguously
by
the
custome
not
only
of
the
best
learned
,
but
also
of
the
ignorant
,
as
if
the
vse
of
word●s
receaued
more
authority
from
the
custome
of
the
ignorant
then
of
the
best
learned
,
so
as
by
this
transposition
of
the
words
,
M.
Collins
hath
m●●e
S.
Augustine
speake
absurdly
.
Agayn
if
we
take
the
wordes
impe●itorum
,
and
doctissimorum
as
they
lye
in
S.
Augustine
,
and
apply
them
to
●ffi●itatibus
as
M.
Collyns
doth
,
no
lesse
absurdity
will
follow
;
for
so
S.
Austine
shall
seeme
to
haue
conceaued
that
his
reader
might
doubt
whether
the
affinity
of
the
best
learned
were
to
be
respected
,
aswell
as
the
affinity
of
the
ignorant
,
and
that
therefore
to
res
lue
that
doubt
S.
Augustine
said
that
a
reuerend
respect
was
to
be
had
to
the
affinity
not
only
of
the
ignorant
,
but
also
of
the
best
learned
;
which
would
haue
been
a
very
idle
speach
,
and
most
vnworthy
of
S.
Augustine
;
for
no
man
that
reuerenceth
affinity
in
the
ignorant
,
would
doubt
whether
it
were
to
be
respected
also
in
the
most
learned
;
so
as
the
very
absurdity
in
the
sense
might
haue
moued
M.
Collins
to
suspect
his
construction
of
the
wordes
,
if
he
had
not
been
as
witles
in
vnderstanding
S.
Augustines
meaning
,
as
ignorant
in
construing
his
●atyn
.
30.
The
like
ignorance
,
but
with
more
fraud
,
●e
sheweth
in
correcting
a
translation
of
myne
in
his
〈◇〉
.
chapter
.
nu
.
33.
The
place
which
I
translated
was
of
S.
Augustine
in
his
Booke
de
cura
pro
mortuis
cap
.
4.
(
concerning
the
good
which
the
dead
may
receaue
by
the
care
of
their
friends
to
bury
their
bodyes
neer
to
the
monuments
of
Saints
)
which
I
layd
downe
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
301.
in
these
wordes
.
Sed
cùm
talia
viuorum
solatia
requiruntur
&c.
but
when
such
comforts
of
the
liuing
are
sought
,
whereby
they
may
shew
theyr
pyous
mynd
or
affection
towardes
theyr
friendes
,
I
do
not
see
what
help
the
dead
may
receiue
therby
,
but
only
this
,
that
whiles
the
liuing
do
remember
where
the
bodyes
of
theyr
frynds
are
layd
,
eisdem
illis
tamquam
patronis
susceptos
apud
Dominum
adiuuandos
commendent
,
they
may
recommend
them
to
the
same
(
Saynts
)
as
to
their
patrons
,
who
haue
receaued
them
into
theyr
protection
,
to
be
helped
with
God
,
which
truly
they
might
doe
,
although
they
could
not
bury
them
in
such
places
.
31.
Thus
farre
I
translated
,
and
cited
S.
Augustines
words
:
which
M.
Collins
censureth
thus
.
pag
.
283.
By
the
way
,
saith
he
,
you
construe
apud
dominum
adiuuandos
co●mendent
,
they
may
commend
them
to
b●
holpen
with
almighty
God
,
as
if
,
apud
dominum
depended
of
adiuuandos
,
and
not
o●
commendent
;
with
such
pretty
bosles
of
exquisit
learning
it
your
worke
embellishe●
that
write
against
bishops
.
So
he
,
shewing
therein
his
own
grosse
ignorance
,
and
notorious
wa●●
of
wit
,
which
will
be
most
euident
,
if
we
consider
the
latyn
words
layd
down
by
me
in
my
translation
,
w●ereof
he
doth
fraudulently
dissemble
some
part
.
The
words
are
these
:
E●sdem
illis
aquam
patronis
susceptos
apud
dominum
adiuuandos
commendent
;
in
which
words
I
desyre
to
be
noted
,
eisdem
illis
,
as
being
in
true
grammaticall
construction
the
datiue
case
,
and
necessarily
to
be
gouerned
by
commendent
;
so
as
the
sense
must
needs
be
,
that
they
may
recommend
them
to
the
same
saynts
,
as
to
theyr
Patrons
&c.
which
being
so
,
I
would
gladly
know
of
this
accurate
Grammarian
M.
Collins
,
how
apud
dominum
can
depend
on
commendent
,
to
make
good
sense
and
construction
?
will
he
say
,
that
commendent
shall
gouern
both
apud
dominum
,
and
eisdem
sanctis
how
then
shall
we
construe
it
?
must
we
say
,
that
they
may
commend
them
to
God
to
the
same
saynts
?
or
to
the
same
Saynts
to
God
?
then
what
construction
or
sense
is
there
in
the
sentence
?
but
perhaps
he
will
say
,
that
it
must
be
construed
,
that
they
may
commend
them
to
●he
same
Saints
with
God
;
if
he
say
so
,
then
●pud
Dominum
doth
depend
rather
vpon
eisdem
●anctis
,
then
vpon
commendent
,
or
rather
it
●ependeth
vpon
some
wordes
to
be
vnderstood
,
as
●ui
sunt
,
or
the
like
,
As
to
say
,
that
they
may
●ommend
them
to
the
same
Saints
,
qui
sunt
●pud
Dominum
,
which
are
with
God
:
whereby
it
●ppeareth
that
apud
Dominum
,
can
no
way
de●end
vpon
commendent
,
as
M.
Collins
would
●aue
it
to
do
;
whereas
making
it
to
depend
on
aduuandos
,
and
that
eisdem
Sanctis
be
gouerned
●y
commendent
,
the
sense
is
cleare
,
and
the
con●truction
very
good
;
for
so
it
will
be
(
as
I
translated
it
●efore
)
that
they
may
commend
them
to
the
●ame
Saints
,
as
to
their
patrons
,
into
whose
protection
they
were
receaued
;
adiuuandos
a●ud
Dominum
,
to
be
helped
with
God
.
Can
a●y
thing
be
more
cleare
then
this
?
And
yet
you
see
●he
silly
fellow
triumpheth
,
as
if
he
had
vtterly
confoun●ed
me
with
this
instance
;
and
therfore
as
he
sayth
of
●e
,
that
with
such
bosses
of
exquisite
learning
my
wo●k
is
embellished
that
write
against
Bishops
,
so
I
may
say
more
truly
of
him
that
with
such
botches
of
gross
ignorance
his
worke
it
patched
that
writes
against
Iesu●ts
.
And
yet
forsooth
this
is
the
man
who
as
M.
Io●eph
Hall
his
fellow
Doctour
affirmeth
(
Mulus
●ulum
)
is
one
of
the
prime
ornaments
of
Cambridge
,
whose
learning
,
sayth
he
,
wit
,
indgement
,
eloquence
the
world
knoweth
,
whose
workes
doe
prayse
him
inough
in
the
gate
,
from
whose
learned
hand
there
neuer
fell
any
thing
without
applause
:
an●
finally
he
appealeth
to
al
the
Tribunals
of
learning
,
whether
all
Doway
haue
yeilded
ought
comparable
to
this
mans
pen
;
but
how
little
honour
,
or
rather
how
great
iniury
he
doth
to
the
Vniuersity
of
Cambridge
,
in
making
such
a●
ignorant
fellow
the
prime
Ornament
therof
,
I
lea●●
it
to
the
iudgement
of
the
discreet
Reader
.
32
Well
then
,
you
haue
now
seene
how
wel
he
hath
proued
his
imputation
of
my
ignorance
,
〈◇〉
rather
how
ignorant
&
childish
he
hath
shewed
himselfe
euen
in
the
latin
tongue
,
albeit
there
is
nothing
more
frequent
in
him
,
then
to
call
in
question
my
latinity
as
if
he
were
Lord
of
the
Latin
language
,
and
th●t
I
could
haue
no
greater
part
therof
then
it
should
please
him
to
affoard
me
:
when
neuerthelesse
I
may
boldly
say
,
that
although
I
do
not
take
vpon
me
more
skill
in
the
latin
then
ordinary
,
yet
I
could
both
speak
and
write
true
Latin
before
he
was
borne
,
and
do
n●●
yet
need
,
as
I
hope
,
to
begge
,
or
borrow
any
of
him
,
for
ought
I
see
either
heere
or
in
his
latin
booke
written
against
Father
Eudaemon
Ioannes
,
which
i●
nothing
el
,
but
a
very
rapsody
,
as
I
may
say
,
of
oul●
rusty
,
and
barbarous
words
,
and
vncouth
phrases
,
whereby
his
stile
is
so
obscure
,
and
harsh
that
no
man
can
read
it
with
patience
,
much
lesse
with
pleasure
,
and
delight
:
in
so
much
that
it
may
iustly
be
sayd
of
him
,
at
S.
Hierome
sayd
of
Iouinian
the
here●ike
,
Non
est
contentus
nostro
,
id
est
huma●o
,
more
loqui
:
altiùs
quidam
aggreditur
,
parturiunt
montes
,
nascelur
ridiculus
mus
,
quod
ipse
non
sani
esse
hominis
,
non
sa●ius
iuret
Orestes
.
Thus
much
concerning
his
third
obiection
.
33.
There
resteth
now
the
fourth
,
and
last
of
his
obiections
,
to
wit
my
circumstance
(
as
he
termeth
it
)
which
if
he
did
not
himselfe
explicate
,
it
would
I
thinke
pose
the
Reader
to
ghesse
what
he
meant
by
it
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
:
Come
we
now
to
the
fourth
,
which
is
his
tediousnes
,
and
his
talketiuenes
,
in
very
truth
insupportable
,
I
meane
his
lazy
,
heauy
,
and
dull
repetitions
of
the
selfe
same
thing
often
.
So
●e
.
And
what
repetitions
thinke
you
are
these
,
which
are
so
odious
,
and
insup●ortable
?
Marry
forsooth
,
they
are
the
recapitulations
of
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
errours
,
ouersights
,
falsityes
,
and
absurdityes
,
which
I
do
sometymes
vpon
occasion
repeate
,
remitting
the
Reader
to
the
places
where
I
had
before
treated
thereof
:
&
the
like
I
do
with
M.
Collins
in
this
my
Reply
,
which
as
it
seemeth
will
displease
him
highly
,
and
put
him
into
a
pelting
chafe
,
for
he
doth
no
more
loue
to
heare
of
his
faults
,
then
the
dogge
to
see
the
whip
,
or
the
scolding
queane
the
cucking-stole
,
or
the
Thiefe
the
gallowes
,
but
he
must
haue
patience
;
for
I
must
by
his
leaue
,
be
so
bould
,
as
to
put
the
Reader
in
mynd
of
them
now
and
then
,
to
the
end
he
may
remember
them
the
better
,
and
know
M.
Collins
for
a
most
fraudulent
,
and
cogging
companion
.
And
this
I
hope
may
suffice
for
answere
to
his
foure
obiections
against
my selfe
.
34.
Heere
then
,
thou
hast
seene
,
good
Reader
,
that
the
calumnious
cauills
of
my
Aduersary
(
which
haue
obliged
me
to
the
iust
defence
of
my self
)
haue
already
drawne
me
almost
beyond
the
bounds
of
a
Preface
;
and
if
I
should
proceed
to
discouer
the
rest
of
his
impertinent
fooleryes
,
this
would
become
a
treatise
,
rather
then
a
Preface
;
and
therfore
I
will
now
draw
to
an
end
,
and
will
only
say
somewhat
briefly
to
a
friuolous
imputation
of
corrupting
the
Fathers
,
wherewith
he
chargeth
me
,
giuing
two
examples
thereof
:
the
one
concerning
a
place
of
S.
Augustin
,
which
I
haue
answered
fully
in
the
second
Chapter
of
my
Reply
,
num
.
37.
(
&
therfore
I
omit
to
speak
of
it
heere
)
the
other
is
touching
a
place
of
S.
Cyprian
de
vnitate
Ecclesiae
,
out
of
whome
I
alleaged
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
101.
these
wordes
:
To
shew
a
vnity
,
he
ordained
one
chaire
:
and
a
litle
after
,
the
Primacy
is
giuen
to
Peter
,
that
one
Church
of
Christ
,
and
one
chaire
may
be
shewed
.
Now
M.
Collins
sayth
of
this
my
allegation
thus
:
In
Cyprians
wordes
there
is
no
mention
of
chayre
,
one
,
or
more
.
The
wordes
are
only
these
,
vt
vnitatem
manifesta●et
,
vnitatis
eiusdem
originem
ab
vno
incipientem
●ua
authoritate
disposuit
,
and
yet
professing
to
English
them
,
he
couches
very
handsomly
●n
the
very
hart
of
them
,
I
know
not
what
●bout
the
appointing
of
one
chayre
.
Thus
●ayth
M.
Collins
,
accusing
me
as
you
see
,
to
haue
●dded
those
wordes
to
the
text
of
S.
Cyprian
,
&
●et
after
a
few
lines
,
the
silly
fellow
sayth
inough
to
●eare
me
of
this
accusation
,
confessing
that
I
follow
●amelius
in
his
edition
of
S.
Cyprian
,
according
●o
a
coppy
which
he
found
in
Cambron
,
wherof
he
●aith
thus
.
As
for
the
Cābron
coppy
,
&
Pamelius
●he
finder
,
they
are
to
light
of
credit
to
out●ace
so
many
,
so
ancient
,
and
so
vncontro●able
.
Shal
the
Bishop
be
censured
for
allea●ing
that
which
all
haue
saue
one
(
and
yet
●o
iustly
suspected
as
sauouring
of
Sixtus
Quintus
poysoned
sallet
)
&
shall
not
this
be
●alled
forgery
,
to
cleaue
to
one
so
abortiue
,
●nd
new
fangled
,
and
forsake
the
rest
?
So
●e
.
Wherin
you
see
he
confesseth
that
I
haue
the
edi●●on
of
Pamelius
for
me
,
and
that
Pamelius
fol●wed
a
coppy
which
he
found
in
the
Abbey
of
Cam●ron
;
so
as
if
there
were
no
more
to
be
sayd
in
my
●●fence
but
this
,
it
might
suffice
to
cleare
me
from
●rruption
,
and
forgery
,
seeing
that
I
follow
an
editi●
receaued
,
and
publiquely
bought
and
sould
throgh●●t
Christendome
.
-
against
the
veneration
,
reseruation
,
digging
vp
;
&
carrying
about
of
holy
reliques
is
throghly
examined
,
and
his
incredible
impudency
,
fraud
,
and
falseho●●
therein
discouered
by
the
manifest
abuse
of
S.
Ambrose
,
Sozomen
,
Theodoret
,
S.
Chrysostome
,
Optatus
,
S.
Gregory
the
great
,
S.
Gregory
of
Towers
,
Origen
,
Victor
Vticensis
,
and
S.
Hierome
.
pag
.
419.
-
Chap
XII
.
My
Lord
of
Winchester
being
charged
in
the
Adioynder
with
inexcusable
falsity
in
the
manifest
abuse
of
S.
Augustine
,
is
abandoned
by
his
Champion
M.
Collins
;
in
whom
also
3.
notable
frauds
are
discouered
touching
one
sentence
of
the
same
holy
Father
;
and
that
he
hath
shamefully
●clyed
and
Bellarmine
.
Lastly
the
veneration
&
●anslation
of
holy
reliques
and
the
custome
to
carry
●●●m
in
procession
is
clearly
proued
out
of
S.
Augu●●ine
.
pag
.
504.
-
The
Conclusion
to
the
Vniuersity
of
Cambridge
.
pag
.
539.
-
An
Appendix
touching
a
place
of
S.
Ephraem
alleadged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
against
prayer
to
Saints
,
debated
with
M.
Collins
in
the
7.
●hap
.
num
.
50.
&
sequent
.
pag
.
545.
A
Declaration
of
the
first
poynt
to
be
debated
.
M.
Collins
his
grosse
or
rather
malicious
construction
of
gerere
personam
.
His
notorious
want
of
memory
,
wit
,
&
conscience
.
CHAP.
I.
THE
first
point
that
I
meane
to
debate
with
M.
D.
Collins
shal
be
the
very
first
of
my
Adioynder
,
concerning
the
Primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
which
is
also
the
first
of
the
three
Controuersies
,
which
he
promiseth
in
the
title
of
his
booke
to
discusse
.
And
I
doubt
not
but
to
make
the
Catholik
Verity
in
this
point
so
euident
,
&
by
the
way
to
discouer
so
many
absurdities
,
lies
,
fraudes
,
&
falsityes
of
his
,
that
my
Obmutesce
shal
●aue
no
lesse
effect
with
him
,
to
put
him
to
silence
,
thē
his
Epphata
hath
had
with
me
,
to
make
me
speake
,
when
I
was
,
and
meant
t●
be
,
silent
.
Now
then
to
come
to
the
matte●
Whereas
my
Lord
of
Winchester
affirmed
,
that
S.
Peter
had
no
peculiar
increase
of
authority
giuen
him
by
the
words
of
our
Sauiour
,
Pasce
oues
meas
,
and
for
proofe
thereof
alleadged
S.
Augustine
thus
:
Cùm
Petro
dicitur
,
ad
omnes
dicitur
,
pasce
oues
meas
:
when
it
was
sayd
to
Peter
,
it
was
sayd
to
all
,
feed
my
sheep
;
I
chardged
his
Lordship
with
a
lame
and
fraudulent
allegation
of
S.
Augustines
text
in
these
words
,
pag
.
4.
num
3.
2.
To
the
end
thou
mayst
(
good
Reader
)
see
&
note
with
what
fidelity
,
&
conscience
this
man
alleadgeth
the
Fathers
,
I
will
lay
downe
the
place
of
S.
Augustine
more
amply
then
he
hath
done
,
wherby
thou
shalt
discouer
his
notable
fraude
.
S.
Augustine
in
the
place
alleadged
sayth
thus
:
Non
enim
sine
causa
inter
omnes
Apostolos
&c.
For
not
without
cause
doth
Peter
sustayne
the
person
of
the
Catholike
Church
amongst
all
the
Apostles
;
for
to
this
Church
the
keyes
of
the
Kingdome
of
heauen
were
giuen
,
when
they
were
giuen
to
Peter
:
and
when
it
is
sayd
to
him
,
dost
thou
loue
me
,
feede
my
sheepe
,
it
is
sayd
to
all
;
and
therefore
the
Catholike
Church
ought
willingly
to
pardon
her
children
when
they
are
corrected
,
and
strengthened
in
piety
,
seeing
we
see
that
to
S.
Peter
himselfe
bearing
the
person
of
the
Church
,
pardon
was
graunted
,
both
when
he
had
doubted
vpon
the
●●a
,
and
when
he
had
thrice
denyed
his
Mayster
●c
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
declaring
that
●●sceoues
(
which
our
Sauiour
sayd
to
S.
Peter
)
was
sayd
to
all
the
Church
,
because
S.
Peter
〈◇〉
are
the
person
of
the
Church
,
which
he
did
●y
reason
of
the
supreme
authority
that
he
●ad
ouer
the
Church
;
or
els
why
should
●ather
he
,
then
others
of
the
Apostles
be
said
●o
represent
the
whole
Church
,
but
because
●e
was
head
or
supreme
Gouernour
therof
?
which
we
may
learne
euen
in
Cicero
,
who
●ayth
,
that
,
Est
proprium
munus
magistratus
&c.
It
〈◇〉
the
proper
office
,
or
duty
,
of
the
magistrate
to
vn●erstand
that
be
beareth
the
person
of
the
Citty
.
So
he
,
●peaking
of
the
chief
,
or
suprem
magistrate
.
3.
Whereby
it
appeareth
,
that
what●oeuer
is
giuen
to
the
King
,
as
King
,
and
●ead
of
the
Commonwealth
,
the
same
is
gi●en
to
the
commonwealth
whereof
he
bea●eth
,
and
representeth
the
person
:
and
so
in
●ike
manner
what
was
giuen
to
S.
Peter
as
●ead
of
the
Church
,
the
same
was
giuen
to
●he
Church
which
he
representeth
.
For
which
cause
also
S.
Cyprian
sayth
,
that
Ec●lesia
est
in
Episcopo
,
the
Church
is
in
the
Bi●hop
;
and
the
reason
is
,
because
the
Bi●hop
is
head
of
the
Church
:
&
as
this
is
true
●n
euery
particuler
Bishop
,
in
respect
of
the
particuler
Church
,
which
he
gouerneth
;
〈◇〉
also
it
is
most
truly
verified
in
the
supreme
,
and
vniuersall
Pastour
,
in
respect
of
the
whole
Church
,
wherof
he
his
head
.
Thus
farre
I
,
in
my
Adioynder
;
whereunto
I
added
three
places
of
S.
Augustine
to
the
same
purpose
,
which
I
will
lay
down
hereafter
with
M.
Collins
his
answere
,
when
I
shall
haue
first
sayd
somwhat
to
his
answere
to
this
.
Wherin
I
must
desire
thee
(
good
Reader
)
to
note
two
things
very
remarkable
in
this
very
first
encounter
,
that
thou
mayst
the
better
discouer
his
impe●tinent
,
and
fraudulent
dealing
in
the
rest
.
4.
First
then
,
thou
shalt
vnderstand
that
in
answere
of
this
which
I
haue
laid
down
,
and
of
those
three
places
of
S.
Augustine
,
before
mentioned
he
spendeth
at
least
40.
pages
,
and
through
his
whole
discourse
doth
wilfully
,
and
wittingly
peruert
the
sense
of
my
words
.
For
whereas
I
alleadge
out
of
S.
Augustine
,
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
and
do
expound
the
same
,
that
he
represented
the
Church
,
giuing
also
the
reason
therof
,
viz.
because
he
was
head
,
and
supreme
gouernour
of
the
Church
;
M.
Collins
dissembleth
wholy
what
I
say
about
the
representation
of
the
Church
,
and
maketh
me
to
vnderstand
gerere
personam
Ecclesiae
,
to
signify
regere
Ecclesiam
,
to
gouerne
the
Church
;
●heras
I
make
the
one
to
be
but
a
consequent
the
other
,
viz
that
he
representeth
the
●hurch
,
because
he
was
head
of
it
.
To
this
●urpose
therefore
M.
Collins
sayth
,
that
with
●e
,
to
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
importeth
as
●uch
as
to
be
endewed
with
suprem
authority
ouer
the
●hurch
.
And
againe
pag
.
4.
that
I
expound
the
●earing
of
the
person
,
by
Tullius
office
,
to
beno
o●er
,
thē
to
be
made
supreme
Magistrate
;
and
after
●gayne
pag
.
7.
he
sayth
thus
.
I
affirme
,
sayth
he
,
●at
gerere
personam
,
is
to
resemble
the
Church
,
or
to
and
for
the
Church
not
to
be
made
chiefe
Magistrate
〈◇〉
the
Church
,
as
you
would
face
vs.
And
pag
.
16.
ha●ing
sayd
out
of
S
Augustine
,
that
Petrus
infir●os
Ecclesiae
significat
,
he
addeth
,
is
this
also
to
be
cō●rued
by
Tullius
office
,
or
gouernement
?
or
doth
not
〈◇〉
.
Augustine
speak
yet
significantly
inough
,
without
●e
turne
the
Iesuites
dictionary
?
And
after
againe
●ag
.
17.
he
sayth
that
,
gerere
personam
,
must
be
●●nstrued
as
S.
Augustine
doth
,
by
figurare
,
&
sig●ificare
,
and
not
by
regere
,
a
word
not
once
vsed
by
S.
Augustine
in
that
sense
.
And
lastly
to
omit
di●erse
other
places
to
the
same
purpose
,
he
●ayth
,
that
I
thinke
gerebat
personam
,
to
be
as
●uch
,
as
tenebat
regimen
,
pag
.
20
num
.
17.
5.
I
haue
alleadged
all
this
out
of
so
many
different
pages
of
his
,
that
you
may
see
●ow
idlely
he
iangleth
all
this
while
,
fighting
with
his
owne
shaddow
whiles
he
●●loweth
his
owne
false
sense
,
and
misco●struction
of
my
wordes
,
by
the
which
it
euident
,
that
I
vnderstand
gerere
personam
E●clesiae
,
in
S.
Augustine
,
no
other
way
then
〈◇〉
represent
or
signify
the
Church
;
albeit
I
a●●
withall
the
reason
thereof
;
making
the
one
as
I
haue
sayd
,
a
consequent
of
the
other
,
viz
because
he
was
head
thereof
:
and
not
confounding
them
as
he
would
make
his
reade
belieue
,
to
frame
matter
for
himselfe
to
impugne
,
as
you
shall
further
see
after
a
whil●
when
I
shall
haue
represented
vnto
you
〈◇〉
ridiculous
grammaticall
conceyt
of
his
,
togeather
with
his
bad
memory
and
wor●
lucke
about
the
phrase
gerere
personam
.
Thu●
then
he
sayth
pag
.
5.
num
.
5.
6.
In
Tully
it
is
gerere
,
in
Saint
Augustine
gestare
personam
Ecclesiae
.
Is
there
no
difference
,
thinke
you
,
betweene
these
two
?
What
,
if
〈◇〉
be
of
things
figuratiue
,
another
of
things
essentiall
?
〈◇〉
you
blame
me
as
too
Criticall
for
distinguishing
b●tweene
gerere
,
and
gestare
;
gerimus
magistr●tum
,
gestamus
vestem
,
eyther
Scenicam
,
〈◇〉
some
other
,
gestamus
&
personam
.
I
meane
〈◇〉
now
personam
in
S.
Augustines
sense
,
least
〈◇〉
Peter
be
further
of
his
supremacy
,
then
you
are
〈◇〉
ware
.
And
though
Augustine
in
some
place
may
s●
gerere
personam
,
euen
of
Peter
in
this
case
,
y●
neyther
in
that
place
which
you
now
alleadge
de
ago●
Christiano
cap
.
30.
for
one
gerebat
,
you
shall
●e
fiue
gestabats
in
S.
Augustine
.
I
belieue
ge●re
,
portare
,
sustinere
,
figurate
,
all
these
,
●ay
remember
gerere
,
though
I
deny
not
,
yet
it
●nes
so
seldom
,
as
I
may
truly
say
,
I
scarce
remember
.
〈◇〉
farre
he
.
7.
Wherein
you
may
note
what
a
nyce
●fference
this
man
hath
made
heere
bet●eene
gerere
and
gestare
,
only
to
shew
his
skil
〈◇〉
grammer
,
for
I
cannot
tell
to
what
other
●●rpose
it
may
serue
:
for
albeit
in
alleadging
Augustines
wordes
in
that
place
I
haue
gerere
●●steed
of
gestare
,
yet
is
it
euident
that
the
sense
all
one
,
&
that
I
take
it
in
no
other
sense
,
●●en
M.
Collins
himselfe
doth
;
which
is
to
present
,
or
figure
the
Church
.
But
in
that
●hich
followeth
in
him
concerning
how
●ft
gestabat
,
and
gerebat
may
be
found
in
S.
●ugustine
,
thou
mayst
note
(
good
reader
)
that
is
beliefe
is
no
better
then
his
memory
,
&
●oth
very
bad
.
For
wheras
he
sayth
he
belie●eth
,
that
for
one
gerebat
,
we
shall
haue
fiue
●●stabats
(
of
the
which
neuertheles
he
allead●eth
but
two
)
I
do
not
belieue
,
but
know
,
●nd
can
shew
him
,
at
least
,
six
gerebats
for
●is
two
gestabats
,
as
,
if
his
memory
had
been
●ught
worth
,
he
might
haue
partly
remem●red
in
that
which
he
both
saw
alleadged
by
me
,
and
alleadged
also
afterwards
hi●
selfe
,
and
partly
might
haue
noted
in
oth●●
places
or
S.
Augustine
,
if
he
had
read
him
so
●●ligently
as
he
would
seeme
to
haue
done
.
8.
For
first
he
saw
alleadged
by
〈◇〉
pag
.
5.
num
.
5.
these
wordes
.
Cuius
Ecclesiae
P●trus
Apostolus
propter
Apostolatus
sui
primatum
ger●bat
figurata
generalitate
personam
.
Which
word
he
also
alleadgeth
himselfe
afterwards
pag
.
20.
num
.
17.
besides
that
he
produceth
another
place
out
of
S.
Augustine
pag
.
13.
in
thes●
words
:
Cuius
populi
diximus
Iudam
in
figura
gess●sse
personam
,
sicut
Ecclesiae
gessit
Apostolus
Petru●
,
where
you
see
gerere
personam
is
twice
,
which
he
could
not
haue
forgot
,
if
he
had
but
a●
much
memory
as
a
goose
,
seeing
he
alleadged
it
himselfe
:
wherunto
I
add
,
that
S.
A●gustine
in
his
exposition
vpon
S.
Iohns
gospell
tract
.
118.
hauing
alleadged
these
wordes
o●
our
Sauiour
,
Tibi
dabo
claues
regni
caelorum
,
addeth
,
Et
hoc
cum
omnibus
tanquam
personam
gere●●
ipsius
vnitatis
accepit
;
and
agayne
vpon
the
30
psalme
concione
2.
he
sayth
.
Hoc
agit
Ecclesiae
,
c●ius
personam
gerebat
Petrus
,
quando
ei
de
caelo
submiss●●
est
discus
.
Lastly
in
his
treatise
de
Baptismo
co●●●
Donatistas
lib
.
3.
c
.
18.
he
faith
,
that
the
Apostle●
personam
gerebant
Ecclesiae
,
when
Christ
sayd
vnto
them
accipite
Spiritum
Sanctum
;
and
I
doub●
not
but
if
I
would
haue
taken
the
paynes
〈◇〉
search
for
more
gerebats
,
I
might
haue
found
●ore
,
for
these
occurred
to
me
by
chaunce
,
●arching
for
somewhat
els
,
and
vpon
other
●ccasions
.
Therefore
I
leaue
it
,
good
Reader
,
●o
thy
consideration
,
what
credit
this
man
●eserues
,
when
he
pawneth
eyther
his
beiefe
,
or
his
memory
,
seeing
both
are
so
bad
●s
you
see
.
Wherof
I
may
add
yet
this
fur●her
proofe
,
that
he
himselfe
pag
.
30.
calleth
●erere
personam
,
the
wonted
phrase
of
S.
Augustine
,
●aying
that
in
the
20.
cap
.
of
that
book
(
viz.
de
●●gone
Christiano
)
S.
Augustine
sufficiently
shewes
what
he
meanes
by
his
wonted
phrase
of
gerere
personam
.
So
as
you
see
how
weake
not
only
his
beliefe
and
memory
is
,
but
also
his
wit
,
seeing
he
so
contradicteth
himselfe
,
as
to
affirme
that
gerere
personam
is
so
seldom
in
S.
Austine
,
that
he
scarce
remembreth
it
,
&
neuerthelesse
alleadgeth
it
himself
thrice
,
&
calleth
it
afterwards
his
wonted
phrase
;
therfore
were
it
not
better
for
him
to
be
dumbe
,
thē
to
talk
so
idly
?
9.
But
now
to
proceed
with
the
rest
of
my
text
concerning
this
matter
;
hauing
said
in
my
Adioynder
,
that
S.
Augustine
affirmed
,
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
(
that
is
to
say
represented
the
same
)
because
he
was
head
of
it
;
I
proceeded
to
the
further
proofe
thereof
thus
.
That
this
was
S.
August
.
meaning
it
is
euident
by
his
own
doctrin
in
other
places
,
where
he
sheweth
plainly
tha●
S.
Peter
bare
the
figure
or
person
of
the
Churc●
in
respect
of
his
primacy
,
Cuius
Ecclesiae
(
sayt●
he
)
Petrus
Apostolus
propter
Apostolatus
sui
prima●●●
gerebat
figurata
generalitate
personam
&c.
Of
which
Church
Peter
in
respect
of
the
primacy
of
his
Apostleship
did
beare
the
person
figuring
,
or
representing
the
generality
therof
;
for
if
we
respect
what
did
belonge
properly
to
himself
,
he
was
by
nature
one
man
,
by
grace
one
Christian
,
&
by
a
more
aboundant
grace
Vnus
,
idemque
primus
Apostolus
;
one
and
he
the
chiefe
Apostle
:
but
it
was
sayd
vnto
him
Tibi
dabo
claues
&c.
I
will
giue
thee
the
keyes
,
he
signifyed
,
the
vniuersall
Church
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
teaching
euidently
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
by
reason
of
the
primacy
of
his
Apostleship
,
that
is
to
say
,
because
he
was
the
chiefe
Apostle
,
which
the
same
holy
Father
signifieth
more
plainly
in
another
place
,
saying
:
Cuius
Ecclesiae
ille
agnoscitur
gessisse
personam
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
:
of
which
Church
he
is
acknowledged
to
haue
borne
the
person
,
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
.
And
to
the
same
purpose
he
sayth
also
elsewhere
,
Petrus
à
petra
cognominatus
&c.
Peter
taking
his
name
from
the
rocke
,
was
happy
bearing
the
figure
of
the
Church
,
hauing
the
principality
of
the
Apostleship
.
Lo
then
for
what
cause
S.
Augustine
sayth
,
that
when
Christ
●aue
to
S.
Peter
the
keyes
of
heauen
,
and
Pa●●orall
authority
to
feed
his
sheepe
,
he
gaue
●●e
same
to
all
the
Church
,
viz.
because
S.
●eter
hauing
the
principality
or
primacy
of
●he
Apostolicall
dignity
,
and
being
conse●uently
chiefe
pastor
,
&
head
of
the
Church
,
●id
beare
,
&
represent
the
person
or
figure
of
●he
whole
Church
.
So
that
you
see
the
place
which
M.
Andrewes
bring●th
out
of
S.
Augu●tine
agaynst
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
maketh
●otably
for
it
,
if
it
be
considered
with
the
●ircumstances
thereof
,
which
he
cunningly
,
●nd
craftily
concealed
.
10.
Thus
farre
the
Adioynder
,
wherein
I
wish
to
be
noted
,
first
how
euident
it
is
that
I
do
by
these
3.
places
of
S.
Augustine
confirme
the
sense
I
formerly
gaue
of
gerere
personam
Ecclesiae
,
to
be
no
other
but
to
represent
,
or
signify
the
Church
as
a
figure
;
and
therefore
in
the
introduction
to
the
said
places
,
I
say
that
S.
Augustine
sheweth
plainly
in
other
places
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
,
or
figure
of
the
Church
.
To
which
purpose
I
alledge
S.
Augustines
wordes
thus
.
Whereof
(
that
is
to
say
of
which
Church
)
S.
Peter
did
beare
the
person
,
figuring
,
or
representing
the
generality
therof
.
And
in
the
3.
place
thus
:
That
he
did
beare
the
figure
of
the
Church
.
And
afterwards
in
the
conclusion
of
the
whol●
discourse
,
I
expound
to
beare
by
represent
and
person
by
figure
,
saying
that
S.
Peter
di●
beare
,
and
represent
the
person
,
or
figure
o●
the
whole
Church
.
Now
then
can
any
thing
be
more
c●●are
,
then
that
I
do
not
take
gerere
personam
Ecclesiae
,
to
signify
regere
Ecclesiam
,
to
gouerne
the
Church
?
What
meaneth
then
this
poore
man
to
trouble
himself
so
much
as
he
●oth
to
find
out
,
and
alleadge
diuers
other
places
in
S
Augustine
,
where
he
teacheth
that
S.
Peter
did
signi●y
the
Church
,
and
beare
the
figure
of
the
Church
as
though
I
denyed
it
,
when
I
did
shew
and
proue
it
expresly
by
S.
Augustine
?
Nay
what
conscience
hath
he
to
charge
,
me
as
he
doth
,
with
quoting
this
place
,
and
these
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
against
the
light
of
Conscience
?
11.
For
thus
he
sayth
to
me
pag
.
9.
lin
7.
But
for
quoting
of
places
against
the
light
of
Conscience
,
was
ther
euer
any
wretch
so
taken
{αβγδ}
,
so
〈◇〉
the
very
manner
,
as
you
are
in
the
construction
of
gerere
personam
,
which
S.
Augustine
expounds
by
gestare
figuram
,
or
portare
figuram
?
You
would
fayne
extend
to
boundlesse
iurisdiction
;
and
if
gerere
,
and
gestare
were
graunted
to
be
all
one
,
is
there
〈◇〉
difference
betweene
figura
,
and
persona
,
as
persona
is
put
for
maiestas
reip
?
Will
you
put
figura
in
that
sense
too
?
So
he
.
As
if
I
did
take
persona
for
the
maiesty
of
the
common
wealth
,
and
not
●r
a
figure
of
it
,
as
I
do
expresly
.
Who
then
the
wretch
that
quoteth
places
,
and
parti●lerly
this
agaynst
the
light
of
Conscience
?
●or
he
?
Neuertheles
I
would
not
haue
him
●inke
that
when
I
do
expound
persona
by
fi●ra
(
as
S.
Augustine
doth
)
I
doe
deny
,
that
he
●ho
doth
beare
the
person
,
&
figure
of
the
●mmon
wealth
doth
also
represent
the
ma●sty
of
it
;
for
he
that
representeth
the
whose
●mmon
wealth
representeth
al
that
is
in
it
,
●r
properly
belongeth
vnto
it
,
be
it
maiesty
,
●uthority
,
iurisdiction
,
prerogatiues
,
priui●dges
,
or
what
els
soeuer
is
properly
the
com●on
wealthes
,
the
same
being
al
virtually
in
●●e
Gouernour
,
and
deriued
from
him
,
to
e●ery
member
of
the
common
wealth
,
accor●ing
to
their
seuerall
functions
,
and
offices
;
●hich
shal
be
further
treated
and
explicated
●ereafter
cap
.
2.
num
.
7.
&
8.
Item
.
cap
4.
num
.
〈◇〉
&
10.
And
in
the
meane
tyme
S.
Augustine
●oth
signify
this
sufficiently
,
when
he
sayth
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
●●opter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
:
in
respect
〈◇〉
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
,
as
●ppeareth
in
the
3.
places
alleadged
out
of
●im
before
,
which
therfore
we
will
now
●onsider
how
M.
Collins
answereth
.
12.
For
albeyt
I
resolued
at
the
first
to
answere
him
as
I
may
say
in
grosse
,
that
to
say
,
to
discouer
only
some
such
notab●●
frauds
,
and
extrauagant
follies
,
as
might
s●ffice
to
shew
how
vnworthy
he
is
of
a
mo●●
large
,
and
particuler
answere
;
yet
consid●ring
that
for
the
clearing
of
this
controue●sy
,
concerning
S.
Peters
primacy
,
it
importe●●
very
much
to
take
from
our
aduersaries
the●
ordinary
euasion
to
make
the
Apostles
equ●●
compartners
with
S.
Peter
of
the
authority
〈◇〉
the
keyes
,
and
Commission
to
feed
Christe●
sheepe
;
and
seeing
that
M.
Collins
in
this
hi●
defense
of
my
Lord
of
Ely
laboureth
tooth
〈◇〉
nayle
(
imploying
all
that
little
wit
,
&
poor●
talent
that
he
hath
)
to
proue
that
S.
Augusti●●
for
this
poynt
is
wholly
theirs
(
to
which
purpose
he
is
so
copious
,
&
prodigall
in
the
allegation
of
him
,
that
sometymes
he
cyteth
almost
whole
pags
out
of
him
to
no
purpose
insulting
agaynst
me
,
and
charging
me
also
otherwhiles
with
the
scant
,
and
lame
allegation
of
him
)
I
will
therefore
take
a
little
payns
to
trace
his
footsteps
for
some
pages
and
to
examine
all
that
he
bringeth
out
of
S.
Augustine
(
of
any
moment
)
in
answere
of
the
places
alleadged
by
me
,
or
to
fortify
my
Lord
of
Elyes
doctrine
touching
this
point
.
And
this
I
will
do
the
rather
,
because
I
shall
thereby
discouer
so
much
trumpery
,
and
treachery
in
him
,
as
may
suffice
,
not
only
to
●tify
my
owne
allegations
of
S.
Augustine
〈◇〉
this
matter
,
and
to
shew
how
weake
,
&
●y
a
champion
my
Lord
of
Ely
hath
chosen
〈◇〉
defend
his
cause
;
but
also
to
make
it
eui●nt
to
the
reader
what
a
world
of
absurdi●es
,
falsities
,
and
follies
would
be
found
in
●m
if
I
would
take
the
paynes
to
examine
,
●d
answere
euery
thinge
in
particuler
,
●roughout
his
idle
,
and
worthlesse
worke
,
●hich
is
nothing
els
but
a
very
packe
,
and
●dell
of
fraud
,
and
folly
;
as
I
doubt
not
●t
it
shall
euidently
appeare
by
that
which
●lloweth
.
M.
Collins
his
answere
to
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
,
&
his
6.
notes
vpon
the
same
are
examined
,
and
confuted
.
And
by
the
way
his
notable
folly
,
fraude
,
contradictions
,
and
shamefull
abuse
aswell
of
S.
Augustine
&
Origen
,
as
of
his
Aduersary
,
is
discouered
.
CHAP.
II
.
THE
first
of
the
3.
places
which
he
vndertaketh
to
answer
is
the
second
in
my
Adioinder
,
cited
by
me
out
of
S.
Augustine
his
Commentary
vpon
the
108.
psalme
briefly
thus
.
Cuius
Ecclesiae
ille
agnoscitur
gessisse
personam
&c.
Of
which
Church
he
(
Peter
)
is
acknowl●dged
to
haue
borne
the
person
,
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
.
Now
M.
Collins
to
g
ue
me
a
great
blow
(
as
he
pretendeth
)
and
t●●●●●ore
the
place
vpon
me
,
cyteth
it
pag
.
10.
num
7.
much
more
largely
thus
.
Sicut
quaedam
dicuntur
quae
ad
Apostolum
Petrum
propriè
pertinere
videntur
&c.
As
some
things
are
layd
,
which
may
seeme
properly
to
belonge
to
the
Apostle
Peter
,
and
yet
haue
no
cleare
sense
,
but
when
they
are
referred
to
the
Church
,
wherof
he
is
knowne
to
haue
represented
the
person
figuratiuely
,
for
the
chiefdome
that
he
had
among
the
disciples
(
as
that
is
for
one
;
To
thee
I
will
giue
the
keyes
of
the
Kingdome
of
heauen
,
and
if
there
be
any
like
:
)
So
Iudas
sustaynes
after
a
manner
the
person
of
the
Iewes
,
Christes
enemyes
,
who
both
then
hated
Christ
&c.
This
farre
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
S.
Augustine
,
and
then
sayth
thus
.
Heere
is
somewhat
that
you
catch
at
,
but
more
that
wee
may
retort
vpon
you
;
you
catch
very
greedily
at
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
,
which
we
neuer
doubted
,
but
S.
Peter
had
a
place
of
some
priority
in
the
qui●e
Apostolike
,
and
it
may
be
,
for
that
our
Sauiour
the
rather
chose
him
to
represent
his
Church
,
more
zealous
then
the
rest
,
more
auncient
then
the
rest
,
whether
to
figure
the
fayth
or
the
eternity
of
the
Church
,
thone
in
this
world
,
thother
in
the
next
,
and
for
what
endowments
els
you
can
deuise
:
for
some
no
doubt
;
and
if
it
be
secret
,
is
it
therefore
none
?
Will
you
call
Christ
to
account
for
euery
thing
,
and
vnlesse
we
can
answere
for
him
,
will
you
condemne
him
?
So
he
;
trifling
as
you
see
aboue
measure
.
2.
For
what
answereth
he
heere
to
any
purpose
to
the
place
of
S.
Augustine
,
otherwayes
then
eyther
to
deny
his
assertion
,
or
els
to
doubt
of
the
verity
of
it
;
for
wheras
the
Father
affirmeth
that
S.
Peter
represented
the
Church
propter
primatum
,
for
his
primacy
,
or
by
reason
of
his
primacy
;
M.
Collins
graunting
that
he
had
some
priority
in
the
Apostolike
quite
,
addeth
,
that
it
may
be
for
that
our
Sauiour
the
rather
chose
him
to
represent
his
Church
;
so
as
it
may
be
also
he
did
not
;
and
that
S.
Augustine
was
deceiued
;
and
that
there
might
be
●ome
other
causes
of
it
,
namely
those
,
which
M.
Collins
hath
drawne
out
of
the
depth
of
his
profound
braine
;
to
wit
,
because
S.
Peter
●as
more
zealous
,
&
more
auncient
then
the
rest
&c.
or
for
what
endowments
el●
of
his
the
reader
can
deuise
:
yea
he
maketh
no
doubt
but
that
there
was
some
cause
though
perhaps
it
was
so
secret
that
we
cannot
searc●
into
it
,
except
we
call
Christ
to
account
,
●ea
and
condemne
him
for
it
.
And
therfore
hauing
also
giuen
afterwards
another
reason
,
or
cause
why
S.
Peter
was
chosen
to
represent
the
Church
(
to
wit
to
figure
vnity
)
he
addeth
that
perhaps
it
was
the
secret
of
our
Sauiours
brest
;
and
then
concludeth
,
and
are
you
so
little
acquainted
with
the
liberty
of
Gods
actions
,
or
reserue
you
nothing
for
our
knowledge
in
the
world
to
come
?
This
to
your
obiection
.
So
he
:
wherin
you
see
what
small
account
he
maketh
of
the
authority
of
that
famous
Doctor
,
&
most
learned
Father
,
seing
that
notwithstanding
the
reason
which
he
yealdeth
,
this
poore
pedantical
Doctor
holdeth
it
to
be
so
vncertayne
,
that
it
may
be
doubted
whether
the
true
reason
therof
will
euer
be
knowne
in
this
world
;
but
for
as
much
as
he
laboureth
afterwards
to
shape
vs
a
better
answer
by
way
of
certayn
remarkable
notes
which
he
recommendeth
to
his
reader
to
be
considered
,
I
will
take
a
little
paynes
to
examine
them
,
not
doubting
but
to
discouer
withall
as
well
his
folly
,
as
his
fraud
,
&
impudency
in
alleadging
,
glossing
,
&
expounding
the
Fathers
.
3.
Now
then
he
maketh
vpon
the
aforesayd
place
six
notes
,
which
I
will
lay
downe
in
his
owne
words
,
and
answere
as
briefly
as
conueniently
I
may
.
His
first
note
is
this
,
pag
.
12.
num
.
8.
Now
marke
,
sayth
he
,
what
we
gather
out
of
S.
Augustines
text
.
First
some
things
there
are
seeming
to
belonge
to
Peter
,
which
can
make
no
cleare
sense
,
but
when
they
are
construed
of
the
Church
.
This
is
flat
agaynst
you
,
that
would
haue
Peter
such
a
figure
of
the
Church
forsooth
as
yet
to
occuppy
a
certayne
place
of
his
own
,
&
what
is
g●uen
to
Peter
should
be
giuen
to
the
Church
,
and
what
to
the
Church
,
the
same
to
Peter
.
But
some
thinges
sayes
S.
Augustine
,
are
sayd
to
Peter
,
which
can
haue
no
pregnant
construction
,
but
of
the
Church
.
So
he
.
Wherein
you
see
,
he
mentioneth
,
and
taxeth
as
an
errour
,
that
we
would
haue
Peter
so
to
represent
the
Church
,
as
to
occupy
a
certayne
place
of
his
owne
,
and
that
what
should
be
giuen
to
him
,
or
to
the
Church
,
should
be
giuen
aswell
to
thone
,
as
to
thother
.
This
I
say
he
taxeth
as
an
errour
,
and
would
perswade
his
reader
that
it
is
confuted
by
this
text
of
S.
Augustin
,
whom
he
affirmeth
to
teach
,
that
some
things
are
sayd
to
Peter
,
which
haue
no
pregnant
construction
,
but
of
the
Church
:
which
last
wordes
,
but
of
the
Church
,
he
hath
put
in
a
different
letter
,
as
S.
Augustines
,
whereas
they
are
but
his
owne
falsification
thereof
,
excluding
therby
S.
Peter
,
wholy
from
al
participation
of
the
promise
of
the
keyes
,
which
S.
Austine
neyther
sayth
,
nor
meaneth
,
except
we
will
also
haue
him
to
exclude
all
the
Apostles
from
receiuing
the
holy
Ghost
,
and
the
power
to
retayne
,
and
remit
sinnes
.
4.
To
this
purpose
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
S.
Augustine
lib
.
3.
de
baptis
.
cap
.
18.
●ayth
of
all
the
Apostles
,
that
(
when
our
Sa●iour
sayd
vnto
them
,
Accipi●e
Spiritum
sanc●um
&c.
Receiue
the
holy
Ghost
,
whose
sinnes
you
forgiue
they
shal
be
forgiuen
&c.
)
gerebant
personam
Ec●lesiae
:
They
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
.
That
is
●o
say
,
they
represented
,
and
figured
the
Church
,
and
consequently
(
according
to
S.
Augustines
doctrine
)
receiued
the
holy
Ghost
,
●nd
the
power
to
retayne
,
and
remit
sinnes
●or
the
Church
.
Will
now
M.
Collins
say
,
that
they
receyued
not
this
power
for
themselues
,
but
only
for
the
Church
?
or
that
our
Sauiours
words
can
haue
no
pregnant
,
or
cleare
construction
but
of
the
Church
?
I
thinke
he
will
not
be
so
absurd
,
&
yet
if
he
mayntaine
his
glosse
vpon
S.
Augustine
touching
S.
Peter
he
must
say
so
;
for
S.
Augustine
sayd
of
S.
Peter
,
that
which
you
haue
heard
for
no
other
reason
,
but
because
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
and
therefore
the
like
is
to
be
sayd
of
all
the
Apostles
,
seeing
that
they
also
in
receyuing
the
power
to
remit
sinnes
,
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
.
So
as
if
M.
Collins
will
deny
the
power
of
the
keyes
to
S.
Peters
own
person
,
&
allow
it
only
to
the
Church
,
because
he
represented
the
Church
,
the
same
must
needes
follow
concerning
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
for
the
same
reason
.
Loe
then
,
how
M.
Collins
bestirreth
himselfe
,
&
layeth
about
him
●ike
a
mad
man
(
light
where
it
will
)
striking
all
the
Apostles
at
one
blow
insteed
of
S
Peter
;
and
no
meruaile
,
seeing
you
shal
see
him
anone
as
bold
with
our
Sauiour
himsel●e
,
cap
.
3.
num
.
7.
8.
&
9.
5.
But
now
I
am
sure
he
will
aske
me
heere
,
whether
all
the
Apostles
did
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
propter
primatum
,
for
the
primacy
?
And
if
it
were
so
,
where
then
was
S.
Peters
primacy
aboue
the
rest
?
To
answere
to
this
,
he
is
to
vnderstand
,
that
albeit
euery
one
that
representeth
a
Citty
,
Commonwealth
or
Kingdome
,
is
not
necessarily
gouernour
thereof
(
as
shal
be
declared
hereafter
more
at
large
cap
3.
num
9.
)
yet
the
same
may
be
well
graunted
of
the
Apostles
without
any
derogation
to
S.
Peters
primacy
.
For
there
is
no
doubt
,
but
that
they
were
all
of
them
gouernours
of
the
Church
,
and
consequently
did
represent
it
,
and
therefore
receiued
the
power
to
remit
sins
for
the
Church
,
yet
wit●out
preiudice
to
the
primacy
of
thei●
superiour
,
who
did
beare
the
person
of
the
Chur●h
in
a
more
eminent
manner
,
as
being
head
not
only
of
the
rest
of
the
Church
,
but
also
of
the
Apostles
themselues
;
which
S.
Augustine
signifyeth
plainly
inough
,
euen
in
this
place
now
in
question
,
where
he
sayth
,
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habu●t
;
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
.
And
in
his
booke
de
Baptismo
contra
Donatistas
,
lib
.
2.
cap
.
1.
he
sayth
of
S.
Peter
,
that
in
him
primatus
Apostolorum
praeeminet
excellenti
gratia
:
The
primacy
of
the
●postles
is
praeeminent
with
an
excellent
grace
And
therefore
as
they
rep●esented
the
Church
for
the
power
,
and
domination
which
they
had
ouer
it
,
so
did
he
represent
the
same
much
more
eminently
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
as
well
ouer
them
,
as
ouer
the
rest
of
the
Church
.
6.
But
for
asmuch
as
S
Augustines
meaning
in
the
place
now
in
question
betwixt
M.
Collins
and
me
,
may
best
be
vnderstood
by
the
circumstances
therof
,
and
especially
by
the
drift
,
and
end
which
he
had
therein
,
it
is
to
be
considered
that
S.
Augustine
expounding
the
108.
psalme
,
which
was
a
prophecy
,
or
prediction
of
the
malice
of
the
Iewes
against
our
Sauiour
Christ
(
&
especially
of
the
traitor
Iudas
)
applied
it
to
the
wicked
generation
of
the
Iewes
;
I
meane
that
he
applied
to
them
,
not
only
that
which
was
euidently
spoken
of
them
in
that
psalme
,
but
also
that
which
was
properly
,
and
expresly
sayd
of
Iudas
himself
,
as
namely
that
verse
;
Fi●nt
dies
eius
pauci
,
&
episcopatum
eius
accipiet
alter
:
Let
his
dayes
be
but
sew
&
let
another
take
his
bishoprike
(
which
words
of
the
psalme
are
interpreted
in
the
Acts
of
the
Apostles
expresly
of
Iudas
)
so
that
S.
Austine
to
shew
the
probability
of
this
his
●x●o●●
son
confirmed
it
by
the
like
interpretation
made
elswhere
by
himselfe
of
certayn
speach●s
addressed
to
S.
Peter
,
which
albeyt
they
m●●
seeme
to
belonge
properly
to
him
(
that
is
to
sa●
to
be
so
proper
to
him
as
not
to
haue
a●y
further
relation
to
any
other
,
)
yet
they
cannot
haue
,
sayth
S.
Aug.
their
cleare
sense
,
but
when
they
are
referred
to
the
Church
,
whereof
he
is
acknowledged
to
haue
borne
the
person
in
a
figure
,
by
reason
of
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
.
And
this
S.
Augustine
exemplifieth
by
,
Tibi
dabo
claues
regnicalorum
.
Which
words
being
spoken
by
our
Sauiour
to
S.
Peter
himselfe
expresly
,
and
directly
,
it
were
absurd
to
thinke
that
S.
Augustine
would
not
haue
them
to
be
vnderstood
at
all
of
him
,
but
only
of
the
Church
,
as
M.
Collins
doth
interprete
him
.
7.
To
this
purpose
it
is
to
be
noted
that
S.
Augustine
sayth
not
,
that
they
can
haue
no
cleare
construction
,
but
of
the
Church
,
as
M.
Colli●s
falsely
affirmeth
,
but
that
they
haue
not
a
cleare
sense
but
when
they
are
referred
to
the
Church
,
signifying
only
thereby
that
albeit
they
were
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
and
meant
of
him
,
yet
they
had
a
further
relation
then
to
him
alone
,
to
wit
to
the
Church
,
of
which
he
represented
the
person
in
respect
of
his
primacy
;
for
albeit
a
thinge
be
properly
spoken
of
a
man
,
yet
it
may
haue
a
further
relation
to
some
other
man
,
or
to
something
els
,
without
preiudice
to
the
propriety
thereof
;
and
to
make
this
cleare
in
this
case
,
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
S.
Peter
did
beare
heere
two
persons
,
thone
true
,
and
proper
,
which
was
his
owne
naturall
person
,
and
thother
figuratiue
,
which
was
the
person
of
the
Church
(
wherof
he
was
head
,
)
&
therefore
these
wordes
which
were
spoken
directly
to
him
were
spoken
with
respect
to
both
,
to
him
first
,
immediatly
,
and
properly
,
and
to
thother
(
to
wit
to
the
true
Church
)
secondarily
and
by
way
of
reference
,
and
relation
,
because
he
represented
it
;
which
he
did
two
wayes
,
thone
as
euery
King
,
or
absolute
Prince
representeth
the
Kingdome
,
&
commonwealth
which
he
gouerneth
,
in
which
respect
the
authour
of
the
Questions
of
the
n●●
,
testament
in
S.
Austines
workes
sayth
of
S.
Peter
quaest.
75.
Saluator
cùm
pro
se
,
&
Petro
dari
iubet
&c.
When
our
Sauiour
commaundeth
that
the
tribute
should
be
payed
for
himselfe
,
and
for
Peter
,
he
seemeth
to
haue
payed
for
all
;
for
as
all
the
causes
of
superiority
were
in
our
Sauiour
,
so
after
our
Sauiour
,
all
are
contayned
in
Peter
;
for
he
made
him
their
head
,
that
he
might
he
Pastour
of
our
Lordes
flocke
.
So
sayth
this
auncient
authour
.
And
a
little
after
:
Christ
(
sayth
he
)
praying
for
Peter
,
prayed
for
all
the
Apostles
,
for
the
people
is
eyther
corrected
or
commended
in
the
gouernour
.
So
he
;
giuing
the
reason
why
,
and
how
our
Sauiour
praying
,
and
paying
for
Peter
,
prayed
and
payed
for
all
the
Apostles
,
viz.
because
Peter
being
their
head
,
represented
them
all
:
and
the
like
is
to
be
sayd
of
any
supreme
gouernour
,
in
respect
of
his
subiects
,
and
whole
commonwealth
during
his
owne
lite
,
and
gouernement
.
8.
But
now
S.
Peter
did
represent
the
Apostles
,
and
the
whole
Church
in
another
respect
,
&
in
a
peculiar
manner
,
not
common
to
all
heades
but
to
him
only
,
that
is
the
first
created
&
instituted
gouernour
of
some
new
Kingdom
or
community
,
to
whom
the
authority
which
is
giuen
him
,
is
giuen
(
not
only
to
himselfe
for
his
owne
tyme
,
but
also
)
to
the
whole
Kingdome
,
or
community
for
the
tyme
to
come
,
yea
so
long
as
the
said
Kingdome
shall
stand
.
As
for
example
;
If
an
Emperor
should
erect
some
part
of
his
estate
into
a
Kingdome
,
and
create
a
King
therof
,
it
is
euident
that
all
the
power
,
and
authority
which
the
Emperour
giueth
to
this
new
,
and
first
King
,
is
intended
,
and
giuen
both
to
him
,
and
to
the
Kingdome
erected
in
him
,
seeing
that
the
sayd
power
,
and
authority
is
to
be
exercised
by
him
and
all
his
succ●ssors
,
and
other
their
instruments
for
the
good
,
and
benefit
of
the
sayd
Kingdome
;
&
therefore
the
wordes
,
writings
or
ceremonies
vsed
in
the
creation
of
such
a
King
,
or
directed
to
his
person
,
to
signify
the
regall
power
,
and
authority
giuen
him
,
is
to
be
vnderstood
properly
of
him
,
yet
with
a
relation
also
to
his
successors
,
for
all
future
tymes
,
and
consequently
to
the
whole
Kingdome
,
for
the
benefit
wherof
he
is
created
King
.
And
this
is
the
true
case
now
in
question
betwixt
M.
Collins
and
me
,
concerning
S.
Peter
,
whome
our
Sauiour
ordayned
the
first
head
,
or
(
b●
M
.
Collins
leaue
)
the
first
Monarch
of
his
Church
,
that
is
to
say
,
of
the
Ecclesiastica●l
Monarchy
;
in
respect
whereof
S.
Augustine
sa●th
,
that
some
things
were
spoken
by
our
Sauiour
to
S.
Peter
,
which
haue
not
their
cleare
,
or
full
sense
,
but
when
they
haue
a
reference
,
or
relation
to
the
Church
which
he
represented
,
and
for
the
benefit
whereof
he
receiued
the
power
of
the
keyes
,
&
commission
to
feed
the
flocke
of
Christ
;
which
power
,
and
commission
was
not
giuen
him
for
himselfe
alone
,
but
for
the
sake
&
benefit
of
the
whole
Church
,
&
therfore
it
was
not
to
dye
,
or
end
with
him
,
but
to
continue
in
the
layd
Church
,
and
to
be
administred
for
the
good
thereof
by
his
successors
,
vntil
the
end
of
the
world
.
9.
But
now
M.
Collins
will
say
perhaps
that
he
hath
reiected
,
and
confuted
this
similitude
before
pag
.
6.
nu
.
6.
The
truth
is
,
he
hath
sayd
somwhat
of
it
,
but
so
little
to
the
purpose
that
he
hath
thereby
rather
confirmed
,
then
con●uted
it
.
He
impugneth
it
with
t●o
reas●ns
;
thone
because
it
is
preiudiciall
to
the
sta●e
of
temporall
Princes
,
giuing
as
much
authority
to
the
people
,
as
to
the
Prince
,
and
therfore
he
sayth
that
secret
might
haue
rotted
in
my
brest
.
And
thother
,
because
I
am
as
rude
sayth
he
)
with
our
owne
Doctours
,
as
rash
with
Princes
crownes
,
making
generall
Councells
quarter-Maysters
with
the
Pope
:
&
by
this
occasion
he
also
glaunceth
at
the
Councells
of
Basill
and
Constance
,
&
the
opinion
of
some
Catholike
Doctours
,
who
hould
that
a
generall
Councell
is
aboue
the
Pope
.
But
if
it
please
D.
Collins
to
consider
the
matter
a
little
better
,
he
shall
see
,
that
neyther
temporall
Princes
,
nor
the
Popes
loose
any
part
of
their
authority
by
this
similitude
;
for
when
I
say
that
what
is
giuen
to
the
King
,
as
King
,
is
giuen
also
to
the
Commonwealth
;
I
doe
not
meane
by
the
Commonwealth
a
body
without
a
head
,
but
the
body
with
the
head
,
that
is
to
say
,
the
commonwealth
togeather
with
the
Prince
,
&
subordinate
to
him
,
so
that
the
authority
,
&
power
which
is
in
the
head
,
is
deri●ed
from
him
into
the
seueral
members
,
and
partes
of
the
body
,
according
to
their
seuerall
functions
,
and
mynisteries
,
whereby
the
said
authority
may
well
be
said
to
be
the
common
wealths
,
because
it
is
giuen
to
the
Prince
(
as
I
haue
signified
before
)
for
the
benefit
of
the
Common
wealth
,
and
to
be
exercised
therin
,
yet
still
depending
of
the
Prince
,
and
flowing
into
the
Commonwealth
from
him
;
what
then
doth
the
temporall
,
or
spirituall
Prince
loose
by
this
?
doth
this
make
the
people
eyther
quarter-maister
with
the
King
,
or
the
Councell
with
the
Pope
?
seeing
that
it
doth
not
follow
of
my
similitude
,
that
eyther
the
Councell
hath
any
authority
ouer
the
Pope
,
or
the
Parlament
ouer
the
King
,
but
both
of
them
may
,
and
do
(
for
ought
I
say
to
the
contrary
)
remayne
alwayes
subiect
to
their
head
,
in
such
sort
,
that
they
cannot
make
so
much
as
a
decree
without
his
consent
,
as
we
see
by
experience
in
our
Parlaments
;
and
the
like
is
also
to
be
sayd
of
generall
Councells
.
And
this
being
so
,
you
may
se
how
idly
he
tatleth
of
the
Councells
of
Constance
,
and
Basill
,
and
the
doctrine
of
some
Catholikes
,
which
teach
that
the
Councell
is
aboue
the
Pope
,
and
therfore
I
let
it
passe
as
nothing
to
the
purpose
,
and
drawing
vs
to
another
question
needles
to
be
treated
in
this
place
.
10.
Now
then
to
returne
to
S.
Augustines
wordes
vpon
the
108.
Psalme
:
whereas
M.
Collins
maketh
him
teach
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
that
the
wordes
,
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
were
not
to
be
construed
of
him
,
but
of
the
Church
,
the
same
may
be
easily
confuted
,
euen
by
the
comparison
it selfe
,
which
S.
Augustine
maketh
there
betwixt
thinges
spoken
of
Iudas
,
and
other
speaches
directed
to
Peter
,
saying
that
not
those
thinges
only
,
which
are
sayd
in
the
108.
psalme
cleerly
inough
of
the
wicked
Iewes
,
●re
to
be
vnderstood
of
them
:
Verumetiam
illa
(
sayth
he
)
quae
proprie
de
ipso
Iuda
dicuntur
expressiùs
:
Which
are
properly
and
more
ex●resly
sayd
of
Iudas
himselfe
.
And
to
confirme
this
,
he
compareth
the
same
with
,
Tib●
dabo
claues
,
spoken
to
S.
Peter
.
And
therfore
S.
Augustine
his
intention
being
to
shew
by
that
example
that
these
things
which
were
spoken
properly
of
Iudas
might
be
conueniently
vnderstood
of
all
the
wicked
Iewes
,
the
substance
,
and
force
of
this
comparison
must
needes
consist
in
this
,
that
as
certayne
thinges
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
to
wit
,
Tibi
●bo
claues
,
and
,
pasce
oues
meas
,
and
,
Tu
es
Petrus
●c
.
were
meant
,
and
are
to
be
vnderstood
●roperly
&
expresly
of
S.
Peters
owne
person
yet
with
relation
to
the
Church
,
which
he
●epresented
)
:
So
also
those
thinges
,
which
●n
the
108.
psalme
are
sayd
properly
,
and
ex●resly
of
Iudas
,
may
haue
relation
to
the
wic●ed
Iewes
,
whose
person
he
bare
in
some
●ort
,
to
wit
,
as
their
Captayne
,
or
head
in
res●ect
of
his
exorbitant
malignity
,
and
im●iety
.
So
as
to
make
S.
Augustine
his
compa●ison
,
and
argument
good
,
these
thinges
which
were
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
and
withall
were
referred
to
the
Church
,
must
needes
be
●s
properly
,
and
truly
vnderstood
of
S.
Peter
himselfe
,
as
these
other
spoken
of
Iudas
,
were
●o
be
vnderstood
properly
,
and
truly
of
him
,
●hough
withall
they
were
to
be
referred
to
●he
wicked
Iewes
;
for
otherwise
the
comparison
&
argument
grounded
therupon
should
fayle
euen
in
that
,
wherin
the
greatest
force
of
it
should
consist
,
which
were
absurd
,
and
most
vnworthy
of
the
most
excellent
iudgement
,
and
learning
of
that
most
worthy
,
iudicious
,
and
learned
Father
.
11.
Thou
seest
then
(
good
reader
)
how
absurdly
M.
Collins
seeketh
to
draw
out
of
this
place
of
S.
Augustine
his
owne
idle
fiction
,
viz.
that
these
wordes
of
our
Sauiour
to
S.
Peter
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
and
the
like
,
can
haue
no
pregnant
construction
but
of
the
Church
;
wheras
S.
Augustine
teacheth
the
flat
contrary
by
this
example
and
comparison
.
And
M
:
Collins
to
deceaue
the
vnwary
reader
setteth
downe
part
of
his
false
glosse
in
a
different
letter
,
as
if
it
were
S.
Augustines
owne
wordes
,
&
text
.
Thus
much
to
his
first
note
.
12.
The
second
is
this
pag
.
12.
Secondly
,
sayth
he
,
amidst
those
somethings
(
which
are
spoken
of
S.
Peter
)
is
Tibi
dabo
claues
;
S.
Aug.
vseth
this
very
example
,
which
you
would
fayne
haue
to
be
ingrossed
by
Peter
;
as
if
the
keyes
had
been
personally
deliuered
to
him
,
and
in
his
owne
right
,
which
S.
Augustine
denyes
.
So
M.
Collins
:
wherin
are
two
manifest
vntruthes
(
not
to
call
them
lewd
lyes
,
to
auoyd
wordes
of
reproach
:
)
one
is
,
that
we
would
haue
the
power
of
the
keyes
ingrossed
b●
S.
Peter
,
and
deliuered
vnto
him
,
not
only
personally
,
but
also
in
his
owne
right
,
whereof
you
haue
seene
the
contrary
in
all
my
former
discourse
concerning
this
matter
,
wherby
it
is
cleare
that
we
teach
,
that
albeit
the
power
of
the
keyes
,
and
the
Commission
to
feed
Christ
his
sheep
,
were
giuen
t●
S.
Peter
p●rsonally
(
that
is
to
say
,
to
his
owne
person
to
be
vsed
by
him
)
yet
not
to
be
ingrossed
by
him
,
or
so
deliuered
vnto
him
in
his
owne
right
,
as
to
exclude
others
,
but
to
be
exercised
by
him
,
and
his
successors
,
and
others
subordinate
to
them
,
for
the
behoofe
,
and
benefit
of
the
church
;
and
therfore
giuen
both
to
him
,
and
to
the
church
in
his
person
.
This
then
being
our
doctrine
the
reader
may
consider
how
false
it
is
,
which
M.
Collins
affirmeth
heere
of
vs
,
viz.
that
we
would
haue
all
the
power
of
the
keyes
ingrossed
by
S.
Peter
,
as
if
the
church
had
no
part
therin
,
nor
right
therto
.
The
second
vntruth
in
his
second
note
is
,
that
S.
Augustine
denyes
that
the
keyes
were
personally
deliuered
to
S.
Peter
;
wheras
S.
Augustine
teacheth
euen
in
this
place
,
that
Tibi
dabo
claues
was
spoken
properly
to
S.
Peter
himselfe
,
though
with
relation
to
the
Church
,
as
I
haue
shewed
in
the
last
paragraph
.
13.
In
his
third
note
he
sayth
thus
:
Thirddly
,
Siqua
alia
,
if
there
be
any
more
,
there
may
be
more
,
then
as
Pasce
oues
meas
,
no
doubt
this
must
be
one
,
by
his
owne
exposition
before
de
Agone
Christiano
.
cap
.
30.
So
he
,
Giuing
to
vnderstand
that
aswel
pasce
oues
meas
,
as
tibi
dabo
claues
,
can
haue
no
pregn●nt
construction
of
S
Peters
person
but
of
the
church
only
;
and
this
he
groundeth
also
vpon
S.
Augustine
his
doctrine
in
the
same
place
;
but
how
falsey
,
you
haue
seene
euidently
already
in
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
and
therfore
may
easily
discouer
the
like
falsity
,
and
his
vanity
,
and
folly
with
all
,
in
this
his
other
instance
of
pasce
oues
meas
,
which
we
graunt
indeed
to
haue
the
like
construction
to
Tibi
dabo
claues
;
that
is
to
say
,
that
it
was
spoken
personally
to
S.
Peter
and
in
his
person
to
the
whole
church
which
he
represented
propter
primatum
,
by
reason
of
his
primacy
;
which
is
S.
Augustine
his
expresse
doctrine
,
as
you
haue
seene
;
so
as
M.
Collins
his
third
note
is
as
fond
,
&
fraudulent
as
the
2.
precedent
,
being
al
three
grounded
vpon
the
false
foundation
of
his
owne
friuolous
glosse
.
14.
His
fourth
note
vpon
S.
Augustines
words
is
,
that
Peter
bare
indeed
,
sayth
he
,
personam
Ecclesiae
;
but
in
figura
,
which
you
pared
of
;
not
by
power
of
his
place
,
or
authority
permanent
;
but
culd
out
before
the
rest
by
our
Lord
for
that
end
to
signify
vnity
.
So
he
.
wherin
you
see
he
taxeth
me
by
the
way
,
for
paring
out
these
words
,
in
figura
,
when
I
alleadged
some
part
of
this
place
of
S.
Augustine
which
I
omit
to
answere
now
,
meaning
to
say
somewhat
therto
anone
in
the
end
of
this
chap.
num
.
37.
&
for
the
present
do
request
thee
,
good
reader
,
to
note
,
how
this
his
note
contradicteth
S.
August
.
or
rather
maketh
S.
Augustine
contradict
himself
in
this
very
place
now
in
question
,
wherin
S.
Augustine
sayth
expressly
that
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
church
in
a
figure
,
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
,
for
the
primacy
winch
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
:
wh●ras
M.
Collins
by
this
glosse
maketh
him
say
,
or
meane
at
least
,
that
S.
Peter
di●
beare
indeed
the
person
of
the
church
in
figure
,
but
not
by
the
power
of
his
place
,
and
if
this
be
true
,
how
did
he
beare
the
person
of
the
church
propter
primatum
?
for
what
place
had
he
more
then
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
,
but
his
primacy
?
if
then
he
bare
the
person
of
the
church
for
his
primacy
(
as
S.
Augustine
express●y
affirmeth
)
how
then
is
M.
Collins
his
glosse
true
,
that
he
did
not
beare
it
for
his
place
,
or
(
as
he
sayth
more
obsurely
)
by
the
power
of
his
place
?
Was
his
place
of
primacy
vo●d
of
power
?
yea
sayth
M.
Collins
,
he
had
a
priority
,
a
superiority
,
or
a
primacy
of
place
,
order
,
and
excellency
,
but
not
of
power
,
authority
,
and
gouerment
.
15.
But
this
is
most
absurd
,
seeing
that
it
is
clere
,
that
he
had
his
primacy
in
respect
of
the
keyes
,
and
commission
to
feed
Christs
flocke
giuen
him
for
the
Church
,
and
to
the
church
in
him
,
as
S.
Augustine
teacheth
;
or
(
as
Tertullian
sayth
in
Scorpiaco
)
to
him
and
to
the
church
by
him
;
Memento
(
sayth
he
)
claues
caeli
hic
Dominum
Petro
,
&
per
cum
Ecclesiae
reliquisse
.
Remember
that
our
Lord
left
the
keyes
of
heauen
heer
to
Peter
,
&
by
him
to
the
church
.
To
which
purpose
Optatus
also
sayth
lib
.
7
cont
.
Donat
.
that
Peter
,
solus
accepit
claues
caeteris
communicandas
:
receiued
alone
the
keyes
to
be
communicated
to
the
rest
of
the
apostles
,
wherby
Optatus
giueth
to
vnderstand
that
Peter
being
Apostolorum
caput
,
the
head
of
the
Apostles
(
as
he
calleth
him
expressly
lib
.
2.
)
was
to
communicate
to
them
the
power
of
the
keyes
,
which
he
had
receiued
alone
,
yet
not
for
himselfe
alone
,
but
for
himselfe
,
and
them
;
and
therfore
not
as
a
proxy
(
as
M.
Collins
absurdly
affirmeth
pag
.
81.
in
answere
to
this
place
of
Optatus
)
but
a●
caput
,
a
head
,
from
whence
the
power
is
to
be
deriued
,
and
communicated
to
the
body
,
and
to
the
seuerall
partes
therof
.
If
therfore
ther
be
any
authority
in
the
whole
church
by
reason
of
the
keyes
,
and
commission
giuen
to
Peter
,
the
same
must
needes
be
principally
in
him
,
to
whome
they
were
giuen
as
Primate
,
or
head
for
himself
,
&
by
him
to
the
church
.
16.
In
which
respect
S.
Augustine
sayth
also
,
in
his
treatise
of
Baptisme
against
the
Donatistes
lib
.
3.
cap
.
17
(
which
M.
Collins
himselfe
alleadgeth
pag
.
4.
num
.
10.
)
that
God
gaue
potestatem
Petro
in
typo
vnitatis
,
power
vnto
Peter
in
the
type
,
or
figure
of
vnity
;
that
the
same
which
he
loosed
in
earth
,
should
be
loosed
〈◇〉
heauen
.
And
againe
in
his
tract
.
123.
in
E●n
.
Ioan
.
speaking
of
the
pastorall
comission
●uen
to
S.
Peter
all
pastors
,
by
the
words
●sces
oues
meas
,
he
expoundeth
pascere
by
docere
,
●regere
,
to
teach
,
&
gouern
;
saying
,
Quibus
oues
ipsas
●scendas
,
hoc
est
,
docendas
,
regendasque
committit
.
●o
which
(
Pastors
)
he
committed
the
sheep
to
be
fed
,
●at
is
to
say
,
to
be
taught
and
gouerned
.
Thus
sayth
〈◇〉
Augustin
,
teaching
euidently
that
our
Saui●ur
giuing
S.
Peter
comission
to
feede
his
●eep
,
gaue
him
authority
and
power
to
●ouerne
;
wherupon
it
followeth
that
the
●lace
of
Peters
primacy
,
or
the
primacy
of
●is
place
cannot
be
separated
from
his
po●er
,
and
authority
giuen
him
altogeather
●y
the
keyes
,
&
commission
of
Pastour
.
For
●lbeit
all
the
Apostles
,
&
the
whole
church
●eceiued
the
same
power
,
and
comission
in
●im
,
and
by
him
,
yet
in
respect
of
his
primacy
the
same
must
needes
be
principally
,
●nd
eminently
in
him
;
which
S.
Leo
teacheth
●xpressly
,
yealding
also
the
reason
thereof
,
●aying
serm
3.
in
assump
.
suae
ad
Pontif
.
that
God
would
haue
the
mystery
of
the
charge
(
of
preaching
vniuersally
)
so
to
belong
to
the
office
of
all
the
Apostles
,
that
he
placed
it
principally
in
Peter
,
the
cheefe
of
them
to
●hend
that
he
might
dilate
,
or
spread
abroad
his
giftes
,
as
into
all
the
body
,
ad
ipso
quasi
quodam
●api●e
,
from
him
as
from
a
certaine
head
.
Thus
sa●th
S.
Leo
,
of
whole
worthines
,
&
great
authority
in
Gods
church
,
I
shal
haue
occasion
〈◇〉
say
somwhat
herafter
cap
6.
num
38.
17.
Fu●thermore
M.
Collins
sayth
in
his
4.
note
that
S.
Peter
was
cul●
out
by
our
Lord
before
the
r●st
,
to
represent
hi●
church
,
to
sig●i●y
vnity
,
which
as
you
haue
heard
,
he
affirmeth
also
in
diuers
other
places
,
grounding
himsel●
vpon
S.
Austine
&
therupon
denyeth
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
figure
of
the
church
,
by
the
power
of
his
place
,
or
authority
permanent
,
which
is
as
much
in
effect
,
as
to
deny
that
he
represented
the
church
propter
primatum
,
for
his
primacy
;
which
n●uerthelesse
you
see
is
S.
Augustine
his
expresse
doctrine
,
and
vtterly
ouerthroweth
M.
Collins
his
glosse
.
Besides
that
,
what
a
simple
,
and
absurd
manner
of
arguing
is
this
,
to
deny
,
or
impugne
one
truth
by
another
,
as
thogh
two
truths
,
or
al
truthes
could
not
stand
togeather
,
or
that
diuers
considerations
,
causes
or
motiues
might
not
concurre
to
produce
one
effect
?
What
Catholike
denieth
,
or
doubteth
,
that
for
the
loue
of
vnity
,
and
the
necessity
therof
in
the
church
,
our
Sauiour
did
chuse
one
head
of
the
Apostles
,
and
of
the
whole
church
(
and
consequently
to
beare
the
person
,
and
figure
of
the
church
)
not
onely
to
shew
the
vnity
therof
,
but
also
to
cause
,
and
to
conserue
vnity
therin
;
as
I
haue
proued
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
S.
Cyprian
,
&
S.
Hierome
.
How
absurdly
then
doth
M.
Collins
argue
thus
in
effect
?
Our
Sauiour
chose
S.
Peter
to
be
the
chiefe
Apostle
(
or
to
haue
the
primacy
of
the
Apostles
)
to
signify
vnity
,
ergo
for
nothing
els
,
but
to
stand
for
a
bare
Cyphar
,
or
figure
,
and
not
to
haue
any
power
,
or
commaund
for
the
gouerment
of
the
Church
?
18.
But
how
doth
this
follow
?
Nay
how
euident
is
the
contrary
?
to
wit
,
that
our
Sauiour
had
so
great
respect
,
and
loue
to
vnity
,
that
for
the
conseruation
therof
in
the
church
it
seemed
to
his
diuine
wisedom
most
necessary
to
giue
to
one
(
viz.
to
S.
Peter
and
his
successors
)
most
ample
power
,
and
authority
to
command
,
ordayne
,
&
punish
,
without
the
which
neither
schisms
,
nor
heresyes
can
either
be
preuented
,
or
remedied
,
nor
consequently
vnity
conserued
;
and
this
I
say
,
is
so
euident
,
that
my
L.
of
Winchester
denyeth
not
Apol
.
cap
.
8.
pag
.
219.
(
in
answer
to
the
place
of
S.
Hierome
aboue
mentioned
)
that
one
(
to
wit
S.
Peter
)
was
chosen
head
amongst
the
Apostles
to
auoyd
schisme
;
yea
and
graunteth
that
he
had
so
much
power
giuen
him
,
as
might
suffice
for
tend
,
for
the
which
h●
〈◇〉
ord
●●ed
;
whereupon
●●duced
●●ny
Adi●
r
cap
.
3.
num
.
〈◇〉
b●
a
necessary
conseq●●●●
,
all
that
power
,
&
authority
,
which
we
acknowledge
to
be
in
S.
Peter
,
and
his
successours
.
Thus
then
you
see
that
the
reason
of
vnity
,
with
the
which
M.
Collins
impugneth
S.
Peters
primacy
doth
nothing
preiudice
it
,
but
rather
notably
confirme
it
.
Thus
much
to
his
fourth
note
.
19.
In
his
fifth
he
sayth
thus
.
Primatus
,
sayth
he
,
was
not
the
Primacy
of
Magistracy
,
euen
that
declares
that
he
sayes
the
keyes
were
promised
to
him
propter
primatum
.
So
that
first
the
primacy
,
and
then
the
keyes
,
and
his
primacy
amongst
the
Apostles
was
a
motiue
cause
to
promise
him
the
keyes
in
the
name
of
the
Church
,
whereas
els
Primatus
,
&
the
keyes
had
gone
togeather
,
and
as
soone
Primatus
,
so
soone
the
keyes
;
but
now
they
are
promised
him
for
some
speciallty
in
him
,
not
for
office
then
,
as
you
would
haue
it
.
Thus
far
M.
Collins
,
who
hauing
granted
,
as
you
haue
heard
before
some
kind
of
primacy
in
S.
Peter
,
seeketh
to
exclude
him
heere
from
all
primacy
of
gouernement
,
or
magistracy
(
as
he
tearmeth
it
)
and
to
that
end
he
supposeth
one
thing
,
&
affirmeth
another
,
neither
of
them
euer
meant
by
S.
Augustine
.
He
supposeth
that
S.
Peter
had
his
primacy
before
he
represented
the
Church
,
&
affirmeth
that
the
keyes
were
promised
him
propter
Primatum
,
whereupon
he
argueth
as
you
haue
heard
.
But
his
supposition
is
flat
against
S.
Augustines
meaning
in
this
place
,
who
sayth
,
that
gessit
personam
Ecclesiae
propter
Primatum
:
He
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
for
his
Primacy
(
or
in
respect
,
or
by
reason
of
his
primacy
,
)
wherof
the
naturall
and
cleare
sense
must
needes
be
,
that
he
represented
the
Church
,
because
he
was
Primate
,
or
chiefe
of
the
Apostles
;
wherin
the
cause
,
and
the
effect
are
signifyed
to
concurre
,
as
the
King
representeth
the
Commonwealth
,
because
he
is
King
or
Head
therof
,
and
not
because
he
being
made
King
,
is
afterwards
deputed
to
some
such
office
of
representation
;
but
being
King
,
he
doth
consequently
,
and
by
nature
of
his
Regal
office
,
and
dignity
beare
the
person
of
the
Common
wealth
,
that
is
to
say
,
he
doth
conteine
,
&
comprehend
in
himselfe
the
whole
authority
,
dignity
,
maiesty
,
&
power
of
the
Commonwealth
,
which
floweth
from
him
,
as
from
the
head
into
al
the
members
,
&
parts
of
the
political
body
.
20.
This
coniunction
,
&
concurrence
of
these
two
(
although
it
is
cleare
inough
in
this
place
wherof
we
now
treate
)
yet
may
be
confirmed
by
another
place
alleadged
by
me
before
out
of
S.
Augustine
serm
.
13.
de
verb
.
Dom
.
where
he
sayth
,
that
Peter
taking
his
name
from
a
Rocke
was
happy
,
bearing
the
figure
of
the
Church
,
hauing
the
principality
of
the
Apostleship
.
Which
manner
of
speach
expresseth
a
concurrence
of
three
thinges
.
The
first
,
that
he
was
made
the
foundation
of
the
Church
,
which
is
signifyed
by
the
change
of
his
name
taken
from
a
Rocke
(
alluding
to
the
words
and
promise
of
our
Sauiour
Matth
.
16.
Thou
art
Peter
,
&
vpon
this
Rocke
will
I
build
my
Church
)
The
second
is
that
he
represented
the
church
.
The
third
,
that
he
had
the
principality
of
the
Apostleship
.
And
of
those
three
thinges
,
the
two
later
are
necessary
consequent
of
the
first
;
for
being
the
foundation
of
the
Church
he
was
consequently
the
head
therof
;
and
being
head
of
the
Church
,
he
represented
the
whole
body
thereof
,
and
consequently
was
Prince
,
and
chiefe
of
the
Apostles
:
so
as
all
those
do
so
necessarily
include
one
another
,
that
they
cannot
be
s●parated
.
21.
And
that
S
Augustine
his
meaning
was
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
church
because
he
was
the
foundation
,
or
head
of
it
,
he
signifyeth
euidently
inough
in
his
commentary
vpon
the
30.
psalme
concio
.
2.
where
discoursing
vpon
the
words
spoken
to
S.
Peter
in
the
acts
of
the
Apostles
,
macta
&
manduca
,
he
applyeth
the
same
to
S.
Peter
,
and
the
Church
,
Cuius
personam
(
sayth
he
)
gerebat
Petrus
&c.
Whose
person
S.
Peter
did
beare
,
when
the
dish
full
of
all
kind
of
beasts
was
let
downe
vnto
him
from
heauen
;
and
then
he
addeth
further
,
that
our
Lord
did
therin
prefigure
his
Church
that
it
should
deuoure
,
&
conuert
all
Nations
into
her
owne
body
;
and
that
therefore
he
sayd
:
Ecclesia
,
hoc
est
,
Petre
(
quia
super
hanc
petram
aedificabo
Ecclesiam
meam
)
macta
&
manduca
.
O
Church
,
that
is
to
say
Peter
(
because
vpon
this
Rocke
I
will
build
my
Church
kill
&
eate
.
So
he
.
Wherein
you
may
see
that
he
calleth
Peter
the
Church
,
or
rather
the
Church
Peter
,
because
he
bare
the
person
of
the
church
,
and
yealdeth
thereof
this
reason
,
because
C●rist
sayd
vnto
him
:
Vpon
this
Rocke
will
I
build
my
Church
Signifying
that
he
represented
the
Church
,
because
the
same
was
founded
vpon
him
,
that
is
to
say
,
because
he
was
made
head
of
the
Church
(
for
as
I
haue
sayd
before
,
the
foundation
in
a
building
representeth
the
head
in
a
politicall
body
,
or
Commonwealth
;
)
wherupon
it
also
followeth
,
that
the
representation
of
the
church
and
the
primacy
therof
were
inseparable
in
S.
Peter
,
the
one
including
the
other
.
And
therefore
M.
Collins
his
supposition
that
the
one
was
before
the
other
,
is
both
friuolous
,
and
false
,
and
most
repugnant
to
the
meaning
of
S.
Augustine
.
22.
No
lesse
friuolous
,
yea
and
fraudulent
also
is
his
affirmation
,
which
I
noted
before
concerning
the
separation
of
Peters
primacy
from
his
receauing
the
keyes
,
saying
,
that
the
Primacy
was
the
motiue
cause
why
the
keyes
were
promised
him
.
First
the
primacy
,
and
then
the
keyes
,
whereas
els
the
Primacy
,
and
the
keyes
had
gone
togeather
,
and
as
soone
the
primacy
,
so
soone
the
keyes
.
So
he
.
And
then
he
concludeth
,
that
the
keyes
were
promised
him
,
not
for
his
office
,
but
for
some
speciality
in
him
.
Al
which
he
groundeth
vpon
the
place
and
words
of
S.
Augustine
before
alleadged
.
But
I
would
gladly
know
of
him
,
where
he
findeth
in
those
words
,
&
in
that
place
,
that
the
keyes
were
promised
to
S.
Peter
,
for
his
primacy
.
That
which
I
find
there
,
and
al
that
can
be
found
is
,
that
S.
Peter
represented
the
Church
,
or
bare
the
person
of
it
for
his
primacy
,
which
signifyeth
plainely
,
as
I
haue
shewed
already
,
the
concurrence
of
S.
Peters
bearing
the
person
of
the
Church
with
his
primacy
(
as
of
a
necessary
effect
with
the
cause
)
but
of
promising
the
keyes
,
&
much
lesse
of
giuing
them
before
,
or
after
his
Primacy
,
sooner
,
or
later
,
there
is
not
so
much
as
one
word
in
that
place
of
S.
Augustine
;
and
therfore
he
may
be
ashamed
to
say
,
as
he
doth
,
to
wit
,
that
S.
Augustine
sayth
:
The
keyes
were
promised
him
,
propter
Primatum
,
seeing
that
he
neither
sayth
,
nor
meaneth
it
.
And
his
conclusion
is
not
only
as
false
,
as
his
premisses
,
but
also
ridiculous
.
For
he
sayth
:
But
now
(
the
keyes
)
are
promised
him
for
some
speciallty
in
him
,
and
not
for
office
then
,
as
you
would
haue
it
.
So
he
,
distinguishing
,
as
you
see
,
betwixt
some
speciality
in
S.
Peter
,
and
his
Office
,
and
concluding
that
the
keyes
were
promised
him
for
the
one
,
and
not
for
the
other
.
23.
But
good
M.
Collins
,
resolue
vs
heer
what
difference
you
make
betwixt
that
speciality
in
S.
Peter
,
and
his
office
,
which
according
to
your
premisses
must
needes
be
all
one
;
for
you
sayd
before
,
that
S.
Augustine
sayes
,
The
keyes
were
promised
to
him
,
propter
Primatum
,
for
his
primacy
;
and
now
you
conclude
that
the
keyes
were
promised
him
for
some
speciality
in
him
;
and
therefore
that
speciallty
must
needes
be
his
Primacy
,
if
you
will
agree
with
S.
Augustine
,
and
your selfe
;
and
if
his
Primacy
was
his
speciallty
,
what
els
was
his
office
,
for
the
which
you
say
,
I
would
haue
the
keyes
to
be
promised
him
;
truely
for
my
part
I
can
imagine
no
other
speciall
office
in
S.
Peter
,
but
his
Primacy
,
yet
I
must
tel
you
good
Syr
,
that
you
mistak
me
much
,
if
you
thinke
,
as
it
seemes
you
doe
,
that
I
would
haue
the
keyes
promised
to
S.
Peter
for
his
office
,
that
is
to
say
,
for
his
Primacy
(
supposing
as
you
do
,
that
he
had
his
office
before
the
promise
of
the
keyes
,
)
for
in
my
poore
vnderstanding
he
was
no
officer
before
the
keyes
were
both
promised
,
and
deliuered
him
;
so
as
you
haue
,
I
will
not
say
belyed
both
S.
Augustine
,
and
me
,
but
truly
you
haue
mistaken
vs
both
very
much
.
This
may
suffice
to
the
fifth
note
.
24.
The
sixt
,
and
last
note
is
this
.
As
Iudas
(
sayth
he
)
sustayned
the
person
of
the
wicked
(
●ost
●uit
,
a
more
powerfull
word
then
gestauit
,
and
much
more
then
significauit
,
which
is
sayd
heere
of
Peter
,
and
yet
but
quodam
modo
,
so
shye
is
S.
Augustine
,
so
far
from
the
iurisdiction
,
you
build
vpon
●ullyes
offices
)
so
Peter
of
the
Church
,
as
Iudas
of
the
one
,
so
Peter
of
the
other
,
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
which
was
no
authoritatiue
primacy
,
you
may
be
sure
except
Iudas
shall
haue
a
generati●
on
of
successours
now
as
well
as
Peter
,
and
which
is
more
damnable
of
holy
Scriptures
institution
So
far
M.
Collins
,
with
a
great
deal●
of
more
trumpery
●ollow
ng
,
wherin
he
disgorgeth
himself
of
a
great
●art
of
his
malice
against
the
Pope
,
whi●h
I
omit
as
not
worth
the
answering
,
seeing
the
force
of
his
argument
consisteth
in
that
,
which
I
haue
heere
layed
downe
already
.
25.
Now
then
to
say
somwhat
therto
,
I
let
passe
his
idle
parenthesis
concerning
sustinuit
,
gestauit
,
and
significauit
,
tending
only
to
fortify
his
peruerse
,
and
willfull
misconstruction
of
my
Text
,
touching
S.
Peters
bearing
the
person
of
the
Church
,
wherof
I
haue
sufficiently
treated
,
and
discouered
his
malice
,
and
fraud
therin
cap
.
1.
num
.
4.
&
5.
whereto
I
remit
my
Reader
;
and
will
now
examine
the
force
and
weight
of
his
argument
,
which
is
,
that
according
to
S.
Augustin
,
Iudas
did
beare
the
person
of
the
wicked
Iewes
,
as
Saint
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
.
And
therefore
if
S.
Peter
by
reason
of
his
representing
the
Church
,
had
a
Primacy
of
power
,
and
authority
ouer
the
Church
,
Iudas
must
haue
also
the
like
primacy
,
and
power
ouer
all
the
wicked
Iews
;
or
if
Iudas
had
no
such
primacy
,
then
neither
hath
S.
Peter
any
such
.
26.
But
who
would
not
wonder
to
●ee
such
an
argument
proceed
from
a
Doctor
of
Diuinity
?
For
what
petty
Sophister
knoweth
not
the
nature
of
an
argument
drawne
from
a
similitude
or
comparison
?
To
wit
,
that
it
holdeth
not
in
all
pointes
,
●ut
in
that
,
or
those
pointes
only
for
the
which
the
similitude
,
and
comparison
was
made
?
Otherwise
because
Christ
is
compa●ed
to
a
Lyon
in
the
scripture
Apoc
.
5.
he
must
be
like
a
Lyon
in
al
things
;
and
being
compared
also
to
a
lambe
Ioan
.
1.
he
must
be
in
〈◇〉
thinges
like
a
lambe
:
whereupon
it
woul●
follow
that
these
two
beasts
being
of
mo●●
contrary
nature
,
and
condition
the
one
t●
the
other
,
Christ
being
in
all
things
like
t●
them
both
,
must
be
most
vnlike
,
or
rathe●
contrary
to
himselfe
;
and
seeing
that
no●
only
Christ
,
but
the
Diuell
also
is
likene●
to
a
Lyon
1.
Petr
.
5.
Christ
must
be
like
th●
Diuell
.
Do
you
see
what
would
follow
o●
M.
Doctour
Collius
his
Logike
?
In
like
manne●
argued
they
,
who
as
we
read
in
S.
Augusti●●
serm
35.
de
verb
.
Dom
.
sought
to
proue
by
the●
parable
of
the
wicked
Steward
,
Luc
.
16.
tha●
it
is
lawfull
to
robbe
or
steale
with
intention
to
giue
almes
,
because
the
Steward
is
commended
for
purchasing
friends
to
himself●
with
his
Lord
,
and
maisters
goods
;
whera●
our
Sauiour
propoundeth
that
similitud●
only
to
incite
vs
to
be
as
diligent
,
and
industrious
in
procuring
our
saluation
by
the
good
imployment
of
our
owne
goods
in
almes
,
&
pious
works
as
the
wicked
Steward
was
to
make
friendes
by
the
fraudulent
imployment
of
his
Maisters
goods
.
And
he
that
would
apply
this
parable
to
other
purpose
might
ground
therupon
a
most
dangerous
doctrine
to
teach
Stewards
,
&
Officer●
to
cozen
their
maisters
.
And
therfore
Theophilactus
vpon
this
parable
sayth
notably
well
thus
:
Non
oportet
omnes
&c.
we
must
not
ouer
curiously
search
into
all
partes
of
parables
,
but
so
farre
forth
as
they
serue
for
the
purpose
;
for
the
rest
are
to
be
passed
ouer
,
as
seruing
onely
for
the
composition
,
and
connexion
of
the
parable
.
Thus
sayth
Theophilact
.
27.
To
declare
therfore
in
what
this
similitude
,
and
comparison
betwixt
S.
Peter
,
and
Iudas
holdeth
;
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
S.
Augustine
compareth
them
onely
in
two
things
:
the
one
in
that
,
as
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
in
a
figure
propter
primatum
,
for
his
primacy
amongst
the
Apostles
,
so
did
Iudas
beare
the
person
of
the
wicked
Iewes
quodam
modo
(
sayth
S.
Augustine
)
after
a
certayne
manner
;
giuing
to
vnderstand
therby
,
that
Iudas
did
not
so
properly
figure
,
and
represent
the
wicked
Iewes
as
S.
Peter
figured
and
represented
the
Church
,
but
onely
quodam
modo
,
in
a
certaine
manner
:
as
who
would
say
that
Iudas
being
,
as
it
were
,
the
Captayne
and
ringleader
of
Christes
enemies
(
in
respect
of
his
exorbitant
,
and
excessiue
malice
,
wherin
he
surmounted
thē
all
)
might
therfore
be
said
to
haue
a
kynde
of
primacy
or
superiority
amongst
them
,
and
so
to
beare
their
person
,
or
to
represent
them
,
as
S.
Peter
did
truly
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
in
respect
of
the
true
,
and
reall
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
of
Christ
.
28.
The
other
thing
,
wherin
they
are
compared
is
,
that
as
certaine
things
which
were
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
and
did
properly
belong
to
him
,
can
haue
no
cleere
sense
,
but
when
they
are
referred
to
the
church
,
so
in
like
manner
some
things
which
we
read
in
the
108.
psalme
concerning
Iudas
,
and
are
properly
spoken
of
him
,
may
be
conueniently
vnderstood
also
of
the
wicked
Iewes
,
as
hauing
relation
to
thē
;
&
in
this
later
point
consisteth
the
chief
force
of
S.
Augustins
comparison
betwixt
S.
Peter
,
and
Iudas
;
and
therfore
,
it
were
most
absurd
to
inferre
a
p●rity
betwixt
them
in
other
things
,
not
intended
either
at
all
,
or
not
so
principally
by
S.
Augustine
;
as
namely
betwixt
S.
Peters
reall
,
and
true
Primacy
(
which
S.
Augustine
acknowledged
him
to
haue
had
amongst
the
Apostles
)
and
that
kind
of
Captaynship
(
as
I
may
tearme
it
)
which
may
be
imagined
in
Iudas
(
for
really
he
had
none
)
amongst
the
wicked
Iewes
;
so
as
,
albeyt
there
may
be
some
comparison
in
respect
of
the
Analogy
,
or
proportion
,
which
we
may
conceiue
betwixt
them
;
yet
a
reall
,
proper
,
and
true
parity
,
or
equality
there
can
not
be
otherwise
then
in
imagination
.
29.
Furthermore
if
M.
Cellius
will
stand
to
his
argument
he
must
needs
acknowledge
that
Iudas
had
primatum
loci
,
&
ordinis
,
a
primacy
of
place
and
order
amongst
the
wicked
Iewes
,
seeing
my
Lord
of
Winchester
and
he
do
graunt
the
same
to
S.
Peter
;
to
which
purpose
they
must
also
imagine
some
reall
election
of
Iudas
to
that
primacy
,
and
that
the
wicked
Iewes
made
their
assembly
,
wherin
Iudas
was
to
haue
the
first
place
,
as
S.
Peter
by
their
concession
was
to
haue
in
Synodes
,
or
Councels
of
the
Apostles
:
for
this
must
needes
follow
if
their
argument
be
good
against
vs
;
seeing
that
this
comparison
,
maketh
as
much
against
S.
Peters
primacy
of
place
,
&
order
(
which
M.
Collins
graunteth
)
as
against
the
primacy
of
power
which
wee
acknowledge
in
S.
Peter
,
&
he
denieth
.
Loe
then
what
a
learned
doctour
we
haue
heere
of
M.
Collins
,
who
with
his
potent
argument
ouerthroweth
himself
as
much
as
his
aduersary
.
30.
But
for
the
more
full
and
cleere
confutation
of
this
Cauill
of
his
(
albeyt
this
which
I
haue
already
sayd
might
suffice
)
I
will
lay
down
another
obiection
,
&
argument
of
his
,
of
the
same
nature
,
which
he
vrgeth
mightily
afterwards
,
spending
therin
4.
or
5.
whole
pages
;
the
answere
wherof
,
I
hope
,
will
not
onely
satisfy
the
Reader
for
both
obiections
,
but
also
stop
M.
Collins
his
mouth
,
seeing
that
as
well
the
answere
as
the
obiection
shal
be
taken
out
of
himselfe
,
who
some
leaues
after
this
his
argument
grounded
vpon
S.
Augustin
his
comparison
of
Iudas
with
S.
Peter
,
bringeth
the
very
like
out
of
him
also
,
vpon
a
comparison
which
he
maketh
betwixt
S.
Iohn
the
Euangelist
&
S.
Peter
,
comparing
S.
Peter
to
the
temporall
life
,
and
S.
Iohn
to
the
eternall
,
making
them
figures
therof
,
and
to
represent
,
or
signify
the
same
,
as
you
haue
heard
he
said
before
of
S.
Peter
,
that
he
signified
,
or
represented
the
church
.
31.
Of
this
point
M.
Collins
sayth
thus
pag
.
24.
num
.
19.
I
am
a
fraide
(
sayth
he
)
of
giuing
the
Reader
a
surfet
in
a
case
so
euident
but
yet
I
must
not
omit
this
one
passage
that
sollowes
in
the
for
said
tractate
of
the
Father
vpon
S.
Iohn
,
because
our
aduersary
hath
quoted
it
.
He
sayes
then
,
that
as
there
is
a
twofold
state
of
the
church
,
one
in
misery
,
and
in
exile
,
another
in
glory
,
in
royalty
,
in
blisse
,
so
Peter
was
made
a
figure
of
the
former
,
Iohn
of
the
later
,
by
our
Sauiour
Christ
:
so
as
n●t
onely
Ioannes
a●e●onitur
Petro
,
Iohn
in
the
one
of
these
is
preferred
before
Peter
(
as
S.
Aug.
words
are
)
but
simply
Iohn
surpasseth
Peter
,
as
much
as
the
life
that
wee
shall
lead
in
blisse
,
excelles
this
miserable
that
wee
heere
liue
;
for
therafter
as
the
liues
are
,
so
are
the
figures
of
them
both
,
which
are
heere
sayd
to
be
the
two
apostles
,
Peter
of
the
militant
church
,
Iohn
of
the
triumphant
,
as
hath
beene
shewed
.
But
shall
wee
say
trow
you
,
that
Iohn
is
a
Monarch
in
the
triumphant
,
or
beares
any
rule
,
or
regiment
amongst
the
blessed
,
where
the
sonne
himself
resignes
his
kingdome
,
or
submits
it
at
least
to
God
the
Father
.
1.
Cor
.
15
?
or
i●
Iohn
hath
no
such
monarchy
by
vertue
of
his
figuring
and
representing
that
state
;
why
then
should
Peter
clayme
any
in
earth
because
he
stands
for
a
figure
of
the
militant
?
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
and
then
layeth
down
a
good
part
of
S.
Augustins
discourse
still
vrging
it
to
the
same
purpose
that
you
haue
heard
,
and
maketh
also
an
ample
comment
vpon
it
;
impugning
,
and
reiecting
S.
Peters
supremacy
ouer
the
church
militant
,
because
S.
Iohn
hath
no
supremacy
ou●r
the
church
triumphant
.
32.
And
not
content
with
this
,
he
resumeth
againe
afterwards
the
same
comparison
betwixt
S.
Iohn
and
S.
Peter
,
out
of
Origens
second
homily
in
diuersa
;
but
with
much
more
fraud
,
as
shall
appeare
after
a
while
.
Thus
then
M.
Collins
sayth
in
his
5.
cap
.
pag
.
203.
Are
you
aduised
(
sayth
he
)
what
priuiledges
Origen
heapes
vpon
S.
Iohn
there
,
not
inferior
to
Peter
,
not
to
any
?
for
it
is
not
for
nothing
that
Iohn
still
crosses
Peter
:
though
th'one
set
out
former
,
yet
th'other
arriued
first
at
his
iourneyes
end
.
Ioan
.
20.
Cui
donatum
est
(
sayes
Origen
)
quod
tibi
donatum
est
?
O
beate
!
To
whome
was
it
euer
giuen
,
that
which
to
thee
hath
beene
giuen
?
O
Thou
blessed
creature
!
Dic
quaeso
cui
talis
,
&
tanta
donata
est
gratia
?
I
pray
thee
tell
me
,
To
whome
was
euer
such
&
so
great
grace
conferred
?
feare
ye
not
least
he
deface
the
virgins
garland
,
not
onely
Peters
?
and
as
Peter
is
a
rocke
by
interpretation
(
as
you
tell
vs
)
so
Iohn
(
if
we
beleeue
Origen
)
latinè
quod
donatum
est
,
as
if
a
packe
of
gyftes
were
couched
in
him
,
and
the
speciallest
gyft
that
euer
befell
a
man
(
either
the
Monarchy
,
be
like
,
or
aboue
the
Monarchy
,
another
one
in
degree
,
to
whom
that
may
befit
{αβγδ}
,
you
know
the
place
.
So
he
.
With
a
great
deale
more
which
I
omit
,
not
to
tyre
thee
,
good
Reader
,
and
my self
with
such
impertinent
stuffe
,
as
you
will
fynd
this
to
be
,
when
you
shall
haue
heard
what
he
fraudulently
dissembleth
in
this
very
place
.
33.
But
first
I
can
not
but
note
heer
,
by
the
way
,
how
this
poore
man
is
ouertaken
,
no
lesse
in
his
comparison
of
S.
Iohn
with
S.
Peter
,
then
in
the
former
of
S.
Peter
with
Iudas
;
seeing
that
his
argument
,
if
it
be
good
against
S.
Peters
supremacy
,
or
(
as
he
calleth
it
)
Peters
monarchy
in
the
church
militant
,
it
ouerthroweth
also
that
primacy
of
place
,
which
he
graunteth
to
Peter
except
he
will
say
that
S.
Iohn
hath
the
first
place
in
heauen
,
which
I
thinke
he
will
not
be
so
bold
to
determine
,
or
so
impudent
to
say
that
S.
Augustine
had
any
such
meaning
.
34.
But
to
proceed
to
what
I
intended
,
thou
shalt
vnderstand
,
good
Reader
,
that
M.
Collins
afterwardes
speaking
of
another
matter
in
his
6.
chap.
pag
.
224.
doth
open
the
way
,
and
giue
a
good
occasion
to
find
out
the
resolution
of
this
doubt
;
for
hauing
cyted
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
out
of
this
Treatise
of
his
vpon
S.
Iohns
Ghospell
,
in
confirmation
of
another
place
of
Origen
,
taken
out
of
his
second
homily
vpon
the
same
Ghospell
,
he
sayth
thus
:
The
very
same
hath
S.
Augustine
,
almost
totidem
verbis
,
vpon
the
same
Text
of
S
Iohn
tract
.
44.
that
you
may
know
one
Father
borrowed
of
another
,
specially
the
Latin
of
the
Greeke
.
So
he
,
wherin
he
sayth
true
,
&
very
well
to
our
purpose
;
it
being
very
euident
that
S.
Augustin
in
this
his
comparison
of
S.
Iohn
with
S.
Peter
,
&
of
the
two
different
liues
,
which
they
represent
,
imitateth
Origen
in
his
homily
vpon
the
ghospel
In
princio
erat
Verbum
,
which
is
the
same
homily
out
of
which
M.
Collins
taketh
,
&
vrgeth
the
foresavd
comparison
;
wherin
neuertheles
this
difference
is
to
be
obserued
,
that
Origen
treateth
of
the
actiue
,
and
contemplatiue
life
,
&
S.
Augustine
of
the
temporall
and
eternall
life
.
35.
Now
then
Origen
will
giue
vs
good
light
what
was
his
meaning
,
and
consequently
S.
Augustines
,
who
doth
imitate
him
in
the
comparison
betwixt
S.
Peter
and
S.
Iohn
.
Therfore
Origen
hauing
(
in
the
place
which
is
alleadge●
,
and
v●gen
by
M.
Collins
)
proposed
S
Peter
as
the
figure
of
fayth
,
and
action
;
and
S.
Iohn
as
the
type
and
figure
of
contemplation
,
and
the
vnderstanding
,
and
hauing
compared
them
togeather
in
such
sort
that
he
giueth
farre
greater
aduantage
,
and
preheminency
to
S.
Iohn
,
explicateth
himselfe
notably
,
and
cleareth
all
this
difficulty
,
saying
:
Nemo
nos
existimet
&c.
Let
no
man
thinke
that
we
preferre
Iohn
before
Peter
.
Who
would
so
do
?
For
which
of
the
Apostls
was
higher
in
dignity
then
he
,
who
is
,
and
is
called
,
Vertex
eorum
,
their
head
?
So
Origen
.
And
a
little
after
:
Non
praeferimus
Petro
Ioannem
&c.
&c.
We
do
not
preferre
Iohn
before
Peter
,
but
compare
contemplation
with
action
&c.
for
we
do
not
now
consider
the
dignity
of
these
Apostolicall
persons
,
but
do
search
for
a
notable
difference
of
the
diuine
M●steryes
.
Thus
sayth
Origen●
Wherein
you
see
he
is
so
farre
from
derogating
any
thing
from
S.
Peters
primacy
by
his
comparison
,
that
he
doth
plainly
acknowledge
it
,
and
vtterly
disclaime
from
al
meaning
,
and
intention
to
impugne
,
or
contradict
it
:
whereby
M.
Collins
may
well
vnderstand
,
if
it
please
him
,
that
S.
Augustine
might
also
make
the
like
vse
of
this
comparison
that
Origen
doth
,
without
any
preiudice
to
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
.
36.
What
conscience
then
hath
he
,
who
seeing
this
in
Origen
(
as
he
must
needes
do
,
when
he
culd
out
of
him
so
many
sentences
as
you
haue
heard
him
alleadg
out
of
the
same
place
)
would
neuertheles
so
seriously
,
and
vehemently
vrge
,
and
exagerate
this
comparison
,
flatly
against
the
meaning
and
intention
of
the
Author
?
How
can
a
man
trust
any
allegation
of
his
,
further
thē
he
●ryeth
it
,
seeing
he
is
so
false
,
and
fraudulent
as
you
see
?
Therefore
,
to
conclude
concerning
his
sixt
note
,
thou
seest
,
good
R
ader
,
how
conforme
it
is
to
the
former
,
all
of
them
notably
discouering
the
folly
,
and
fraud
of
the
Author
,
who
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
argueth
most
simply
,
corrupteth
,
&
peruerteth
most
impudently
as
well
S.
Augustines
text
,
and
meaning
,
as
myne
,
contradicteth
himselfe
shamefully
,
&
finally
with
a
●●ared
conscience
dissembleth
Origens
cleare
,
and
expresse
wordes
,
which
doe
wholy
ouerthrow
the
inferrence
,
&
argument
that
he
draweth
out
of
him
in
the
same
place
.
37.
And
now
to
say
a
word
,
or
two
(
as
I
promised
)
concerning
his
imputation
of
fraudulent
dealing
to
me
in
the
allegation
of
S.
Augustines
text
(
because
for
gestauit
I
had
gessit
,
&
pared
off
,
as
he
sayth
,
the
words
in
figura
)
truly
I
thinke
he
would
haue
beene
ashamed
(
as
little
shame
as
he
hath
)
to
haue
obiected
this
to
me
,
had
he
not
first
wholy
dissembled
my
text
,
and
peruerted
,
and
falsifyed
my
meaning
touching
the
sense
of
gerere
personam
Ecclesiae
in
S.
Augustine
,
which
as
I
haue
amply
shewed
in
the
beginning
,
I
do
expresly
expound
to
represent
,
and
signify
the
Church
,
taking
persona
for
figura
;
so
as
no
difference
can
be
imagined
in
that
place
betweene
gerere
and
gestare
,
nor
any
want
of
the
words
in
figura
.
Albeit
alleadging
onely
a
piece
of
the
text
for
breuityes
sake
,
I
left
out
these
words
as
needles
,
being
necessarily
vnderstood
,
and
included
in
the
word
persona
(
which
I
translated
sometymes
person
,
or
figure
)
and
was
also
otherwise
sufficiently
signifyed
,
and
expressed
by
me
in
all
that
discourse
.
Which
if
thou
dost
not
remember
,
good
Reader
,
I
beseech
thee
to
tak
pains
to
reuiew
it
in
the
first
cap
.
num
.
4.
&
5.
and
thou
shalt
see
how
notably
he
hath
sought
to
cozen
thee
,
and
abuse
vs
both
:
and
therefore
,
I
say
vnto
him
with
the
Psalmist
:
Erubescant
impij
,
deducantur
in
infernum
,
muta
fiant
labia
dolosa
:
Psal
.
30.
M
Collins
his
answere
to
another
place
of
S.
Augustine
is
examined
.
Three
reasons
which
he
vrgeth
against
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
are
proued
to
be
most
ridiculous
;
the
first
being
nothing
to
the
purpose
,
and
the
other
two
being
as
forcible
against
our
Sauiours
Supremacy
,
as
against
S.
Peters
.
CHAP.
III
.
MAISTER
D.
Collins
will
now
take
in
hand
pag
.
14.
num
.
10.
another
place
,
which
I
alleadged
out
of
S.
Augustine
to
proue
that
S.
Peter
did
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
in
respect
of
his
primacy
and
his
meaning
is
to
retort
it
vpon
me
,
or
at
least
to
shew
that
it
auaileth
me
nothing
.
You
quote
further
(
sayth
he
)
S.
August
.
in
his
13.
serm
.
de
verbis
Dom
.
secundum
Matth
.
out
of
which
you
haue
these
words
:
Petrus
à
petra
cognominatus
&c.
which
moreouer
you
English
thus
.
Peter
taking
his
name
from
a
Rocke
was
happy
,
bearing
the
figure
of
the
●hurch
hauing
the
principality
of
the
Apostleship
of
which
anone
,
as
it
serues
your
turne
.
In
the
meane
tyme
you
may
see
what
variety
of
words
S.
Augustin●
hath
to
set
out
the
meaning
of
his
gere●e
personam
,
both
heere
,
and
els
where
,
though
heere
he
doth
not
vse
so
much
as
the
word
personam
,
but
figuram
only
,
which
is
a
great
deale
lesse
,
or
rather
makes
all
besides
,
to
be
iust
nothing
.
So
be
.
And
then
after
scrapeth
togeather
a
great
many
of
places
out
of
Saint
Augustine
,
to
proue
that
gerere
personam
,
doth
signify
in
him
only
to
figure
,
signify
,
or
represent
,
which
he
prosecuteth
for
fiue
or
six
pages
togeather
speaking
to
me
diuers
tymes
by
the
way
,
&
telling
me
of
my
construction
of
gerere
personam
out
of
●ullies
Offices
,
by
regere
,
and
potiri
rerum
,
as
though
I
had
sayd
so
;
wheras
this
place
it selfe
maketh
it
cleare
,
that
I
take
persona
for
figura
,
seeing
that
I
alleadge
it
to
proue
that
S.
Peter
did
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
albeit
there
is
no
memtion
there
of
persona
,
but
of
figura
,
vsed
insteed
of
it
,
which
therefore
I
must
needs
vnderstand
for
persona
,
or
otherwise
the
place
should
serue
me
to
no
purpose
;
and
so
prolixe
,
and
tedious
is
this
idle
Doctor
in
this
discourse
,
that
he
is
fayne
afterwards
to
excuse
himself
to
his
Reader
pag
.
17.
num
.
12.
saying
:
We
●e
too
long
vpon
this
place
,
but
discouer
one
of
our
dis●●uerers
trickes
,
and
discredit
all
.
So
he
.
And
do
●ou
see
how
he
hath
discredited
me
hither●o
?
Or
rather
how
he
hath
disgraced
him●elfe
,
discouering
his
owne
falsity
,
and
folly
?
2.
But
what
sayth
he
now
in
conclu●ion
to
the
point
,
that
is
in
controuersy
be●wixt
vs
,
for
the
proofe
whereof
I
produ●ed
that
place
of
S.
Augustine
?
Truly
he
shoo●eth
at
it
,
●s
I
may
say
three
boltes
;
I
wil
not
●all
them
fooles
bolts
(
because
he
is
they
say
〈◇〉
Doctor
of
Diuinity
)
but
I
may
well
say
that
neuer
wise
Doctor
shot
so
much
at
random
,
or
more
foolishly
thē
he
,
as
it
shal
euidently
appeare
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
16.
●lleadging
these
wordes
out
of
S.
Augustin
:
●l●um
videte
P●trum
,
qui
tunc
erat
figura
nostra
.
Consider
sayth
he
)
that
Peter
,
who
was
then
our
figure
bare
not
our
person
,
that
is
,
bare
rule
ouer
vs
,
●●e
neuer
liuing
in
S.
Peters
tyme
,
and
his
regency
being
expired
before
we
were
borne
,
but
(
as
I
haue
sayd
often
standing
for
the
Church
by
the
way
of
type
and
figure
,
and
so
he
represented
for
vs
,
and
for
the
Church
vntill
the
worlds
end
,
whereas
he
could
gouern
no
more
,
then
liued
in
his
owne
dayes
.
Thus
he
.
Full
wisely
,
as
though
we
held
that
S.
Peter
doth
gouerne
the
Church
still
in
person
:
for
what
els
proueth
,
or
concludeth
he
heere
,
but
that
neither
we
liued
in
Peters
tyme
,
no●
he
in
ours
;
and
that
he
doth
not
personally
gouerne
vs
now
,
which
no
man
denyeth
.
And
therefore
I
thinke
neuer
any
wise
ma●
shot
a
bolt
further
wide
from
the
marke
,
then
M.
Collins
hath
done
heere
.
3.
For
how
doth
it
follow
of
all
this
,
which
he
hath
sayd
,
that
S.
Peter
whiles
he
liued
,
was
not
supreme
head
,
&
gouernour
of
the
Chu●ch
,
or
that
his
successours
do
not
lawfully
gouerne
vs
now
,
by
the
vertue
of
that
power
,
and
authority
which
they
receaued
then
in
him
?
Do
not
Kinges
at
this
da●
lawfully
exercise
that
Regall
power
,
which
was
giuen
them
in
their
first
predecessor
(
albeit
he
himselfe
could
not
personaly
gouerne
more
those
which
liued
in
his
owne
tyme
)
and
the
reason
why
his
successors
doe
still
lawfully
gouerne
,
is
,
as
I
haue
sufficiently
declared
before
,
because
he
being
the
type
and
figure
,
as
well
of
his
successors
,
as
of
his
whole
kingdome
,
receaued
the
regall
power
both
for
himselfe
,
and
for
them
.
And
the
like
is
euident
●n
S.
Peter
,
whose
authority
is
iustly
acknowledged
in
his
successors
,
because
when
the
Ecclesiastical
Monarchy
was
first
erected
in
him
,
he
was
their
t●pe
,
or
figure
,
or
bare
their
person
by
reason
of
his
primacy
,
as
S.
Augustin
affirmeth
,
and
therefore
receaued
his
authority
both
●or
himselfe
,
and
for
them
.
4.
This
the
Bishops
of
the
Councell
of
Chalcedon
acknowledged
in
their
acclama●ions
to
the
letters
of
Pope
Leo
.
Act.
2.
Petrus
(
say
they
)
per
Leonem
locutus
est
,
Peter
hath
spoken
by
Leo
.
And
for
this
cause
S.
Augustine
sayth
to
the
Donatists
of
the
succession
of
the
Roman
Bishops
:
Numerate
sacerdotes
,
vel
ab
ipsa
Petri
se●de
,
&
in
illo
ordine
Patrum
,
quis
cui
successit
videte
;
●psa
est
Petra
,
quam
non
vincunt
superbae
inferorum
●ortae
.
Count
the
Priests
euen
from
the
seate
of
Peter
and
see
who
haue
succeeded
one
another
in
that
row
of
Fathers
;
That
is
the
Rocke
which
the
proud
gates
of
●ell
do
not
ouercome
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
●n
Psal
.
contra
part
.
Donat
.
applying
to
S.
Peters
●uccessors
that
which
was
spoken
personally
●o
him
,
because
he
bare
not
only
his
owne
person
,
but
also
theirs
,
which
will
yet
more
euidently
appeare
by
my
answere
to
M.
Collins
his
next
obiection
taken
also
out
of
S.
Augustine
.
Thus
then
he
proceedeth
.
5.
Againe
,
sayth
he
,
pag
.
16.
to
vrge
significat
against
this
mans
magnificat
,
which
he
singes
to
Peter
,
but
afore
he
know
what
it
meanes
,
In
eo
quod
dixit
Petrus
;
Tu
es
filius
Dei
vini
,
firmos
significat
(
sayth
S.
Augustine
:
)
In
eo
quod
trepidat
&c.
infirmos
Ecclesiae
significat
.
Is
this
to
be
construed
also
by
Tullyes
offices
,
of
gouernement
?
or
doth
not
S.
Augustine
speake
it
s●gnificantly
inough
without
we
turne
the
Iesuits
dict●●nary
?
doth
a
magistrate
signify
the
Citty
which
he
gouernes
:
or
was
Peter
at
one
tyme
gouernour
of
t●●
strong
,
namely
when
he
belieued
and
confessed
Christ
;
and
another
tyme
of
the
weake
,
namely
when
he
sta●gered
?
How
then
was
he
euer
vniuersall
Gouernou●●
For
when
he
dou●ted
he
confessed
not
,
and
when
〈◇〉
confessed
he
doubted
not
;
so
neuer
was
he
Gouerno●●
of
the
●od●
altogeather
,
neuer
did
he
gerere
personam
in
that
sense
.
I
thinke
you
see
cause
to
repe●●
your
con●●●uction
,
vnles
you
be
weary
of
vniuersall
dominion
.
T●us
shooteth
M.
Collins
his
second
b●●
,
as
wide
as
the
former
.
For
wheras
he
vrg●th
his
significat
against
my
magnificat
(
as
he
termet●
it
)
you
haue
heard
sufficiently
be●ore
how
shamefully
he
peruerteth
my
meaning
,
&
you
see
how
he
iangleth
now
,
harping
stil
vpon
the
same
false
string
.
And
as
for
his
argument
against
S.
Peters
vniuersall
dominion
,
it
is
right
worthy
of
such
an
acute
Doctor
,
as
M.
D.
Collins
,
hauing
as
much
force
against
the
vniuersal
dominion
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
,
as
S.
Peters
.
6.
I
doubt
not
but
that
his
Doctorship
will
acknowledge
our
Sauiour
to
be
head
of
his
Church
;
and
if
he
so
doe
,
he
may
learne
out
of
S.
Augustin
(
vpon
whome
he
seemeth
wholy
to
rely
for
this
question
)
that
the
head
may
not
only
be
a
figure
of
the
body
,
but
also
signify
different
partes
thereof
for
different
respects
,
which
S.
Aug.
teacheth
expresly
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
in
his
exposition
of
the
psalmes
21.
and
68.
Vpon
the
●ater
he
sayth
thus
:
Christus
non
solùm
caput
sed
●orpus
est
;
ex
ipsis
verbis
agnoscimus
.
Christ
is
not
on●y
the
head
,
but
also
the
body
;
we
know
it
by
his
owne
wordes
.
So
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
calling
our
Sauiour
the
body
as
well
as
the
head
,
because
he
was
a
figure
of
his
body
,
the
Church
:
in
which
respect
he
sayth
a
little
after
.
Vnde
●amquam
aliquid
inuitus
patiatur
sic
clamat
?
whence
commeth
it
that
he
cryeth
out
so
,
as
if
he
suffered
somwhat
agaynst
his
will
?
Nisi
quia
caput
,
membra
sua
praefigurat
.
But
because
being
head
,
he
doth
prefigure
,
or
signify
his
members
.
And
agayne
a
little
after
.
Praefigurans
ergo
&
transformans
in
se
nos
ipsos
,
hoc
●it
,
Saluum
me
fac
Deus
:
Prefiguring
therfore
,
and
●ransforming
vs
into
himselfe
,
he
sayth
thus
,
Saue
me
O
God
&c.
So
he
;
who
also
vpon
the
psalme
21.
sayth
,
that
Christ
hanging
vpon
the
Crosse
did
keep
personam
veteris
hominus
;
The
person
,
or
figure
of
the
old
man
,
That
is
to
say
,
of
our
corrupt
nature
.
And
afterwards
:
Corpus
suum
(
sayth
he
)
gerebat
,
id
est
,
Ecclesiam
:
He
bare
●is
body
,
that
is
to
say
,
the
Church
.
Which
was
in
effect
as
much
as
if
he
had
said
gerebat
perso●am
Ecclesiae
,
he
bare
the
person
,
or
figure
of
the
Church
.
Finally
to
omit
other
places
he
sayth
vpon
the
same
psalme
,
that
Christ
did
signify
both
the
weake
,
and
the
strong
in
his
Church
.
Ossa
sua
sirmos
suos
dicit
;
he
calleth
〈◇〉
bones
his
strong-ones
;
Ventrem
suum
dicit
infirmos
i●
Ecclesia
sua
;
His
belly
he
calleth
the
weake
in
his
Church
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
.
But
whether
our
Sauiour
signifyed
the
strong
and
weake
as
head
of
the
Church
,
or
for
some
other
particuler
respects
,
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
declare
after
a
whyle
in
my
answere
to
M.
Collins
his
third
argument
,
num
.
9.
7.
In
the
meane
tyme
we
see
according
to
S.
Augustine
that
not
only
S.
Peter
,
but
also
our
Sauiour
himselfe
represented
and
signifyed
the
whole
Church
,
whereof
he
was
head
,
as
also
the
diuers
members
,
and
partes
thereof
,
to
wit
the
weake
,
and
the
strong
.
Will
then
M.
Collins
aske
vs
now
of
our
Sauiour
,
as
he
doth
of
S.
Peter
,
whether
he
could
signify
the
Church
,
which
he
gouerned
?
And
whether
he
was
at
one
tyme
Gouernour
of
the
strong
,
and
another
tyme
of
the
weake
?
and
lastly
then
how
he
could
be
an
Vniuersall
gouernour
of
his
Church
?
I
hope
he
wil
be
better
aduised
,
&
learne
by
this
,
that
as
our
Sauior
Christ
was
&
is
the
Vniuersall
Gouernor
of
his
Church
,
though
he
represented
the
same
,
and
signified
also
the
weake
,
and
strong
therin
:
so
also
S.
Peter
might
be
Vniuersal
gouernor
of
the
Church
vnder
Christ
,
&
beare
the
person
,
or
figure
therof
propter
primatum
(
as
S.
Aug.
saith
)
albeyt
he
figured
sometims
the
weake
&
sometims
the
strong
.
Therfore
I
may
well
say
to
M.
Collins
of
our
Sauiour
,
as
he
sayd
to
me
of
S.
Peter
pag
16.
I
thinke
you
see
cause
to
repent
your
construction
,
or
argument
,
except
you
be
weary
of
Christs
vniuersall
dominion
.
8.
But
now
let
vs
see
him
shoot
his
third
bolt
taken
also
out
of
S.
Augustines
quiuer
,
and
I
warrant
you
aswell
,
and
as
wisely
shot
as
the
two
former
;
for
wheras
S.
Augustine
in
his
tract
.
123.
vpon
the
Ghospell
of
S.
Iohn
sayth
thus
;
That
all
we
,
which
are
indued
with
this
hope
,
may
know
that
by
the
seauenfould
number
of
the
disciples
,
which
were
present
at
our
Sauiours
repast
after
his
resurrection
by
which
number
our
whole
company
may
seeme
heere
to
be
figured
)
we
are
both
partakers
of
that
mystery
,
and
fellowes
in
that
blisse
;
M.
Collins
obserueth
in
these
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
pag
.
18.
num
.
13.
First
that
figurari
is
there
also
vsed
by
him
in
the
former
sense
;
and
then
addeth
that
,
As
ere-while
Peter
figured
the
Church
,
so
now
those
7.
disciples
figured
the
Vniuersality
of
Gods
people
,
that
is
,
the
Church
,
and
yet
I
hope
they
are
not
made
therby
regents
of
the
Church
.
So
he
.
And
then
after
an
impertinent
,
foolish
and
false
digression
agaynst
the
Iesuits
(
which
I
purposely
omit
,
as
not
worth
the
setting
downe
,
and
much
lesse
worthy
the
answering
)
he
concludeth
thus
pag
.
19.
The
seauen
figures
heere
are
not
seauen
gouernours
,
no
more
then
is
.
Peter
figuring
the
Church
,
or
bearing
the
figure
of
the
Church
,
or
what●oeuer
els
soundeth
that
way
.
So
he
;
imagining
belike
,
that
we
hold
all
figures
of
the
Church
to
be
gouernors
of
the
Church
;
for
otherwise
he
proueth
nothing
agaynst
vs.
And
truly
he
might
haue
added
examples
,
and
instances
inough
of
this
kind
,
out
of
the
Scripture●
,
&
Fathers
as
out
S.
Austine
vpon
psalme
21
where
he
saith
that
the
woman
,
who
entred
with
the
oyntment
,
when
Christ
was
feasted
in
Symons
house
,
portabat
typum
Ecclesiae
,
Did
beare
the
type
,
or
figure
of
the
Church
;
yea
,
and
that
the
lynnen-cloath
that
was
let
downe
from
heauen
to
S.
Peter
,
with
foure
corners
,
was
also
a
type
,
and
figure
of
the
Church
:
wherupon
he
may
conclude
as
wisely
,
as
he
hath
done
heere
,
that
because
,
neyther
the
woman
,
nor
the
lynnen
cloath
were
gouernours
(
though
they
were
figures
therof
)
therfore
neyther
S.
Peter
,
no
nor
our
Sauiour
Christ
himself
was
gouernour
of
the
Church
,
albeyt
they
did
both
of
them
represent
it
,
and
consequently
were
figures
of
it
.
9.
But
he
is
to
vnderstand
that
although
all
heades
of
Cittyes
,
or
Commonwealthes
do
represent
the
same
,
yet
all
that
represent
them
,
are
not
heades
therof
;
for
●o
euery
Proxy
,
or
Deputy
in
a
Parlament
for
a
Citty
hould
be
gouernour
of
it
:
and
as
●ome
senselesse
thinge
may
in
respect
of
●ome
propriety
,
which
it
hath
,
be
a
figure
of
the
Church
;
so
may
also
a
man
in
some
one
,
or
a
few
things
figure
and
represent
it
,
and
yet
be
no
gouernour
of
it
.
And
there●ore
not
only
S.
Peter
,
but
also
our
Sauiour
himselfe
might
some
way
figure
,
and
represent
the
Church
,
not
as
heades
therof
,
but
for
some
particuler
respectes
,
relation
,
or
resemblance
,
which
may
be
noted
betwixt
them
,
and
the
Church
;
as
when
our
Sauiour
,
and
S.
Peter
are
sayd
by
S.
Augustine
to
figure
the
strong
,
and
the
weake
in
the
Church
,
they
might
be
sayd
so
to
doe
,
for
some
particuler
actions
of
theirs
,
which
might
haue
relation
to
the
strong
,
or
the
weake
;
whereby
neuerthelesse
they
were
not
excluded
from
bearing
the
person
of
the
Church
propter
primatum
,
which
S.
Augustine
acknowledgeth
in
S.
Peter
,
and
M.
Collins
.
I
am
sure
,
will
not
deny
of
our
Sauiour
.
Whereby
he
may
perceaue
how
wisely
he
hath
argued
,
denying
the
supremacy
of
S.
Peter
,
because
the
7.
disciples
were
not
gouernours
of
the
Church
,
albeyt
they
were
figures
of
it
,
as
well
as
S.
Peter
;
which
reasons
make
as
much
agaynst
our
Sauiours
supremacy
,
as
agaynst
S.
Peters
.
So
as
thou
seest
(
good
Reader
)
what
a
good
archer
this
doughty
Doctour
is
,
seeing
that
of
three
boltes
which
he
hath
shot
,
the
first
fell
cleane
wyde
from
the
marke
,
and
the
other
two
so
farre
ouer
,
that
insteed
of
S.
Peter
,
at
whome
he
shot
,
he
hath
hit
out
Sauiour
Christ
,
and
wounded
him
deeply
,
depriuing
him
of
his
Primacy
,
and
gouernement
of
the
Church
,
if
his
argument
be
good
agaynst
S.
Peter
.
M.
Collins
his
answere
to
a
third
place
of
S.
Augustine
is
confuted
,
with
the
disco●●ry
of
his
foolish
,
and
false
glosse
vpon
it
,
and
his
childish
ignorance
in
impugning
still
our
Sauiours
Supremacy
,
no
les●
then
S.
Peters
.
CHAP.
IIII
.
THERE
remayneth
yet
to
be
discussed
one
of
the
3.
places
alleadged
by
me
out
of
S.
Augustine
tract
.
124.
to
proue
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
Propter
primatum
,
In
respect
of
his
primacy
.
I
●lleadged
it
thus
;
Cuius
Ecclesiae
Petrus
Apostolus
propter
Apostolatus
sui
primatum
figurata
generalitae
personam
&c.
Of
which
Church
Peter
in
respect
d
the
primacy
of
his
Apostleship
did
beare
the
person
figuring
or
representing
the
generality
therof
Fo
if
we
respect
what
did
belonge
properly
to
himselfe
,
●e
was
by
nature
one
man
,
by
grace
one
Christian
,
and
by
a
more
aboundant
grace
vnus
idemque
primus
Apostolus
:
One
and
he
the
chiefe
Apostle
.
But
when
it
was
sayd
to
him
,
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
I
will
giue
thee
the
Keyes
&c.
he
signified
the
whole
Chur●h
.
Thus
farre
I
alleadged
S.
Augustines
wordes
.
Now
M.
Collins
discourseth
very
amply
vpon
this
place
,
making
,
as
it
were
,
three
notes
,
or
obseruations
thereupon
,
which
I
will
lay
downe
,
and
answere
by
the
way
,
as
they
come
to
hand
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
20
num
.
17.
Come
we
now
to
the
124.
tract
.
out
of
which
he
vrgeth
this
Roc
agi●
Ecclesia
spe
beata
in
hac
vita
aerumnosa
,
cuius
Ecclesiae
Petrus
propter
Apostolatus
sui
primatum
gerebat
figurata
generalitate
person●m
;
which
the
●asier
to
cleere
we
may
sort
out
by
parcells
that
whic●
makes
for
them
;
first
gerebat
personam
,
which
his
m●●
thinkes
to
be
as
much
as
tenebat
regimen
,
his
of
that
before
.
To
omit
how
it
is
qualified
with
figirata
generalitate
,
his
bearing
the
person
being
but
figuring
,
signifying
,
and
representing
still
with
S.
A●gustine
which
is
short
of
Magistracy
.
So
he
;
singi●g
,
as
you
see
,
his
old
songe
being
nothing
els
but
false
descant
vpon
my
playne
song
of
geere
personam
,
which
is
playne
inough
,
if
●e
out
of
his
peruerse
,
&
malitious
humour
had
not
peruerted
,
and
corrupted
it
,
as
you
haue
seene
so
sufficiently
before
,
that
this
needeth
no
further
answere
.
2.
He
proceedeth
thus
pag
.
21.
Secondly
(
sayth
he
)
propter
Apostolatus
sui
primatum
,
whi
h
the
better
to
conceiue
,
heare
we
further
S.
Augustine
,
heare
you
too
good
Syr
,
that
accuse
the
Bishop
o●
laming
places
,
as
if
no
man
were
such
a
legall
reciter
of
them
as
you
selfe
.
Quod
enim
ad
ipsum
prop●●e
pertinet
(
speaking
of
Peter
)
natura
vnus
homo
erat
,
gratia
vnus
Christianus
,
abundantiore
gratia
vnus
idemq́ue
primus
Apostolus
.
Sed
&c
that
is
,
for
as
concerning
himselfe
Peter
was
by
nature
but
one
m●n
,
by
grace
one
Christian
man
,
by
a
greater
measure
of
the
same
grace
one
,
and
a
prime
Apostle
.
But
&c.
you
w●ll
say
perhaps
,
that
this
is
a
third
kind
of
aduantage
,
and
authority
more
then
euer
you
were
aware
of
for
Peter
,
Vnus
idemq́ue
primus
Apostolus
:
But
there
is
more
in
it
then
so
.
S.
Augustine
knowes
but
three
steps
of
condition
heere
,
in
Peter
:
a
man
,
which
he
was
by
nature
,
a
Christian
which
by
grace
,
but
by
height
of
grace
,
by
excesse
of
grace
,
an
Apostle
;
yet
vnus
Apostolus
,
but
one
Apostle
,
not
virtua●●
as
you
would
haue
it
,
the
whole
quire
,
or
colledge
of
them
.
Our
Sauiour
was
not
so
poore
as
to
haue
but
one
Apostle
,
sayes
Irenaeus
lib
.
3.
agaynst
them
that
taught
Paul
was
the
only
man
.
So
farre
off
was
Peter
then
,
that
scarse
be
was
thought
to
be
one
of
the
number
.
Indeed
twelue
as
I
shewed
you
before
,
for
great
cause
:
but
concerning
Peter
,
vnus
Apostolus
(
sayes
S.
Augustine
)
but
one
Apostle
.
As
for
the
prime
we
●raunt
you
,
as
you
haue
beene
often
tould
,
and
(
to
content
you
the
more
)
more
then
in
one
regard
of
primacy
;
An
excellent
sloure
he
was
in
that
garland
,
what
would
you
eis
!
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
:
wherin
thou
mayst
note
,
good
Reader
,
a
great
deale
of
impertinent
stuffe
.
3.
For
what
can
be
more
idle
,
yea
&
false
then
his
note
vpon
Vnus
Apostolus
,
wherein
he
seemeth
to
charge
me
,
or
rather
all
Catholikes
to
hold
&
teach
that
S.
Peter
was
virtually
the
whole
quire
,
or
colledge
of
the
Apostles
;
in
such
sort
,
as
that
he
was
the
only
Apostle
,
and
that
the
rest
were
not
Apostles
as
well
as
he
,
for
els
why
sayth
he
,
that
indeed
there
was
12.
and
alleadgeth
also
out
of
Irenaeus
,
that
Christ
was
not
so
poore
as
to
haue
but
one
Apostle
,
which
(
sayth
M.
Collins
)
Irenaeus
sayd
against
those
,
that
taught
Paul
was
the
only
man
.
But
did
euer
any
Catholike
hould
that
Peter
was
the
only
man
,
in
that
sense
?
that
is
to
say
,
the
only
Apostle
?
or
that
there
were
not
12.
Apostles
?
or
that
euery
one
of
them
was
not
as
truly
an
Apostle
as
S.
Peter
?
we
hold
indeed
that
he
was
the
head
of
the
Apostles
,
and
of
the
whole
Church
,
and
that
therefore
he
had
virtually
in
himselfe
the
authority
of
them
all
(
as
the
head
hath
virtually
all
the
power
,
and
authority
conteyned
in
the
body
)
and
so
we
also
teach
concerning
the
Bishops
of
Rome
,
●uccessors
to
S.
Peter
,
that
being
heads
of
the
Church
,
and
of
all
the
Bishops
therof
,
they
haue
virtually
in
themselues
the
authority
,
and
power
of
them
all
;
yet
not
so
,
but
that
euery
Bishoppe
lawfully
created
in
the
Church
,
is
as
truly
a
Bishop
as
the
Bishop
of
Rome
,
or
S.
Peter
himselfe
was
;
how
idle
then
,
friuolous
,
and
false
is
all
this
?
Furthermore
I
beseeth
thee
,
good
reader
,
to
note
in
like
manner
his
sleight
,
or
rather
falsity
,
in
translating
primus
Apostolus
,
to
wit
a
prime
Apostle
,
not
the
prime
,
or
rather
chiefe
Apostle
,
as
indeed
it
signifyeth
;
his
desire
being
that
his
reader
should
conceiue
that
S.
Augustines
meaning
was
no
other
,
but
that
S.
Peter
was
a
principall
Apostle
,
that
is
,
one
of
the
principall
,
or
chiefe
Apostles
,
but
not
the
principall
,
or
chiefe
of
all
,
which
S
Augustine
meant
,
when
he
sayd
that
S.
Peter
was
vnus
idemque
primus
Apostolus
.
4.
This
may
easily
be
gathered
by
the
precedent
wordes
,
to
wit
,
propter
Apostolatus
sui
primatum
,
For
the
primacy
of
his
Apostleship
,
which
he
expresseth
more
plainly
in
the
other
place
debated
before
de
agone
Christ
.
cap
.
30.
where
he
saith
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipul●
habuit
,
For
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
;
giuing
plainly
to
vnderstand
,
that
he
had
a
primacy
,
or
preheminency
aboue
the
rest
,
which
also
M.
Collins
himselfe
is
forced
to
gra●●●
in
some
sort
,
both
before
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
and
now
also
,
saying
heere
that
〈◇〉
,
and
his
fellowes
do
graunt
(
as
he
hath
often
told
vs
that
S.
Peter
was
the
prime
more
then
in
regard
of
one
primacy
,
wh●ch
neuerthelesse
he
minceth
,
and
extenuateth
in
the
n●x●
wordes
following
,
saying
an
excellent
flower
he
was
in
that
garland
:
and
then
asketh
me
,
what
wold
you
els●
?
Mary
▪
good
M.
Collins
I
would
h●ue
you
speake
out
of
the
teeth
,
and
confesse
that
he
was
the
chief
flower
in
that
garland
,
and
to
english
primus
●o
that
it
may
haue
the
cleare
sense
that
S.
Augustine
doth
meane
,
yea
,
and
according
to
the
dictionaryes
both
English
,
and
Latine
to
translate
it
the
chiefe
,
and
not
a
prime
,
as
you
do
,
when
fo●
Vnus
idemque
primus
Apostolus
,
you
giue
vs
in
English
,
one
and
a
prime
Apostle
,
which
prime
is
neyther
an
vsuall
word
in
English
,
neyther
yet
with
the
article
,
(
a
)
can
signify
the
chiefe
,
but
one
of
the
chiefe
:
so
as
thou
seest
,
good
reader
,
how
he
hath
iuggled
,
and
iangled
hitherto
in
the
exposition
,
and
translation
of
this
place
.
5.
But
now
let
vs
heere
how
he
proceedeth
,
That
this
primacy
,
sayth
he
,
was
distinct
from
your
supposed
magistracy
of
maiesty
Ecclesiasti●●ll
(
as
you
would
infere
ou●
of
gerere
personam
)
●●are
what
followes
.
S.
Augustine
hauing
recoun●●d
the
th●ee
former
degrees
of
Peters
condition
,
he
●●o●eeds
to
a
●ourth
neyther
coincident
with
the
rest
,
●●r
yet
contayning
any
such
principality
,
as
you
talke
,
〈◇〉
me●●l●
aff●arded
him
of
our
Sauiors
free
bounty
in
●●gard
to
his
excellent
worth
amongst
his
fellows
.
Sed
〈…〉
dictum
est
,
●ibidabo
claues
regnicaelorum
,
&
quod●●que
ligaueris
super
terram
,
erit
ligatum
&
〈◇〉
caelis
&
quodcumque
solueris
super
terram
,
erit
solu●um
&
in
caelis
,
vn●uersam
significabat
Ecclesiam
,
●●res
S.
Augustine
,
he
stood
for
the
Church
;
it
was
●ayd
to
him
in
the
person
of
the
Church
,
not
as
chiefe
●agistrate
,
not
as
primus
Apostolus
,
the
first
wheele
in
●he
clocke
,
but
in
a
sense
distinct
from
the
former
3.
●egrees
therefore
he
sares
sed
quando●
yet
happily
the
●ather
for
his
aforesayd
worthynes
,
our
Sauiour
put
his
part
vpon
him
,
honoured
him
with
the
represen●ation
of
the
Church
,
made
him
to
signify
Ecclesiam
●niuersam
(
S
Augustins
words
)
but
only
to
signify
●t
,
and
that
not
as
an
Apostle
,
but
in
a
fourth
conside●ation
which
helps
you
nothing
,
rather
spoiles
you
of
al.
Thus
far
M.
Collins
.
6.
Where
you
see
he
proposeth
vnto
vs
a
fourth
consideration
as
he
calleth
it
(
distinct
from
the
3.
degrees
before
mentioned
)
why
our
Sauiour
made
S.
Peter
to
signify
his
vniuersall
Church
;
which
consideration
,
he
sayes
,
helps
vs
nothing
,
but
rather
spoil●●
vs
of
al
,
for
so
you
see
he
concludeth
,
&
dot●
not
tell
vs
clearly
what
this
fourth
consideration
is
,
but
only
what
it
is
not
(
at
least
i●
his
conceipt
)
to
wit
,
that
S.
Peter
did
represent
,
or
signify
the
Church
,
not
as
chief
magistrate
,
not
as
primus
Apostolus
,
yea
not
as
〈◇〉
Apostle
,
but
in
a
fourth
consideration
;
making
S.
Augustine
clearly
contradict
himselfe
who
sayeth
expresly
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
eue●
in
this
very
place
now
in
hand
,
that
S.
Pete●
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
for
the
prima●
of
his
Apostleship
.
And
agayne
de
agone
Christia●
c●p
.
30.
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
t●●
disciples
.
And
lastly
in
his
13.
serm
de
verb
.
Dom
.
that
he
b●re
the
figure
of
the
Church
,
hauing
th●
principality
of
the
Apostleship
.
Now
then
can
any
man
declare
his
mind
more
plainly
then
S.
Augustine
doth
,
why
S.
Peter
did
signify
,
or
represent
the
Church
?
to
wit
for
his
primacy
,
and
because
,
he
was
the
chiefe
Apostle
,
or
Prince
of
the
Apostl●s
?
How
then
can
M.
Collins
his
glosse
(
not
as
primus
Apostolus
)
stand
with
S.
Augustines
text
&
meaning
?
7.
But
will
you
heare
how
he
seekes
somwhat
to
qualify
the
matter
,
or
rather
to
cast
a
mist
before
his
Readers
eyes
?
he
graunteth
that
this
fourth
consideration
,
wherof
he
speaketh
heere
,
was
affoarded
to
S.
Peter
by
our
Sauiour
in
regard
to
his
excellent
worth
amongst
his
fellowes
;
and
after
agayne
that
our
Sauiour
honoured
him
with
the
representation
of
his
Catholike
Church
,
happily
the
rather
for
his
aforesaid
worthines
;
so
as
now
the
principality
of
the
Apostleship
,
and
primacy
amongst
the
Apostles
(
which
S.
Augustine
ascribeth
to
S.
Peter
)
is
reduced
only
to
an
excellent
worth
amongst
his
fellowes
,
and
yet
that
also
with
a
perhaps
,
sa●ing
,
happily
the
rather
for
the
foresayd
worthinesse
,
so
as
perhaps
it
was
no
part
of
the
consideration
at
all
;
do
you
see
then
to
what
passe
he
hath
brought
this
matter
at
last
by
his
glosse
?
Eyther
excluding
wholy
S.
Augustine
his
constant
,
&
serious
doctrine
in
this
point
,
or
els
making
him
to
contradict
himselfe
?
and
if
he
say
that
by
this
fourth
consideration
he
excludeth
only
such
a
principality
as
we
talke
of
(
for
so
much
he
insinuateth
at
the
first
)
as
if
he
allowed
S.
Peter
(
as
he
doth
elswhere
)
a
principality
,
&
primacy
of
place
,
he
then
contradicteth
himselfe
,
seeing
that
he
affirmeth
heere
expresly
that
S.
Peter
did
not
signify
the
Church
,
eyther
as
the
chiefe
Apostle
,
or
yet
as
an
Apostle
,
saying
that
Christ
made
S.
Peter
to
signify
the
vniuersall
Church
,
and
then
addeth
,
but
only
to
signify
it
,
and
that
not
as
an
Apostle
,
but
in
a
fourth
consideration
.
So
he
:
wherin
you
see
,
he
is
so
far
from
including
in
this
fourth
consideration
any
respect
of
S.
Peters
primacy
or
place
,
amongst
the
Apostles
,
that
he
excludeth
his
very
Apostleship
,
and
all
respect
of
his
being
an
Apostle
;
thus
doth
the
poore
man
wynde
,
turne
,
and
intangle
himselfe
most
absurdly
,
not
knowing
,
as
it
seemeth
,
what
he
sayth
;
so
as
whiles
he
hopeth
to
turne
S.
Peter
out
of
his
primacy
,
he
turneth
him selfe
out
of
his
witts
.
8.
But
perhaps
he
will
say
that
if
this
4.
consideration
should
include
his
primacy
,
or
any
respect
of
his
Apostleship
,
it
would
be
coin●ident
with
the
third
degree
mentioned
by
him
before
,
to
wit
with
Vnus
,
idemque
primus
Apostolus
;
One
and
the
chiefe
Apostle
,
which
sayth
M.
Collins
cannot
stand
with
sed
quando
in
S.
Augustine
,
who
thereby
addeth
a
fourth
consideration
distinct
from
the
former
,
and
not
coincident
therto
.
But
then
why
doth
he
not
tell
vs
what
this
fourth
consideration
is
,
if
it
be
so
distinct
from
the
former
,
as
that
it
doth
not
any
way
include
it
?
belike
he
remits
it
to
the
day
of
iudgement
to
be
knowen
,
when
all
other
secrets
shal
be
reuealed
as
you
haue
heard
him
say
before
cap
.
2.
num
.
2.
But
in
the
meane
tyme
to
giue
some
satisfaction
to
the
Reader
in
this
point
,
he
shall
vnderstand
,
that
this
great
doubt
,
and
difficulty
that
M.
Collins
maketh
heere
is
sufficiently
solued
,
and
cleared
by
me
before
cap
.
2.
num
.
4.
&
5.
when
I
answered
his
obiection
of
the
comparison
made
by
S.
Augustine
betwixt
some
things
spoken
by
our
Sauiour
to
S.
Peter
,
and
other
thinges
spoken
in
the
Scripture
of
Iudas
,
which
did
properly
belong
to
their
owne
persons
,
&
yet
had
a
further
relation
:
as
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
spoken
to
S.
Peter
,
had
a
relation
not
only
to
him
,
but
also
to
the
Church
;
and
other
thinges
sayd
of
Iudas
in
the
108.
Psalme
,
were
to
be
referred
aswel
to
the
wicked
Iewes
as
to
Iudas
himselfe
.
9.
By
the
occasion
of
this
I
haue
signifyed
cap
.
2.
num
.
7.
&
8.
that
S.
Peter
did
represent
,
and
figure
the
Church
in
a
very
peculiar
manner
,
not
common
to
euery
Gouernour
,
but
as
the
first
Gouernour
therof
,
in
whose
person
the
Ecclesiasticall
Monarchy
(
which
was
to
endure
to
the
worlds
end
)
was
erected
,
and
instituted
;
in
which
respect
those
things
which
were
sayd
to
him
,
expressing
the
power
and
authority
giuen
him
(
as
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
Pasce
oues
meas
,
and
the
like
)
were
spoken
in
regard
aswel
of
the
Church
for
euer
,
as
of
his
owne
person
;
for
otherwise
the
sayd
authority
had
dyed
,
&
ended
in
him
,
and
with
him
,
&
had
not
descended
to
his
successors
,
&
to
the
whole
Church
for
euer
,
as
it
did
;
and
therefore
S.
Augustin
in
this
place
considereth
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
and
his
representation
of
the
Church
two
wayes
:
the
one
as
it
was
to
be
considered
in
his
owne
person
,
and
for
his
owne
tyme
,
abstracting
from
his
successors
,
&
future
tymes
.
In
which
respect
S.
Augustin
sayth
he
was
primus
Apostolus
,
that
is
to
say
,
primate
or
head
of
the
Apostles
,
and
consequently
head
also
of
the
Church
,
which
Church
he
therfore
represented
not
as
the
first
Monarchy
,
or
Gouernour
thereof
,
but
as
euery
King
,
or
Prince
representeth
his
whole
commonwealth
during
his
owne
raygne
,
hauing
al
the
Authority
therof
virtually
in
himselfe
.
10.
But
now
by
the
other
way
,
or
consideration
of
S.
Peter
his
primacy
,
and
representation
of
the
Church
(
to
wit
as
he
was
the
first
Gouernour
thereof
,
in
whose
person
the
Ecclesiastical
Monarchy
,
or
Kingdome
was
first
erected
)
he
represented
all
his
successours
,
and
the
whole
Church
to
the
worlds
end
,
and
therfore
of
this
manner
of
primacy
,
&
representation
of
the
Church
S.
Augustine
speaketh
in
this
place
,
when
he
sayth
,
that
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
was
sayd
to
S.
Peter
,
as
he
signifyed
the
vniuersall
Church
,
because
it
was
sayd
to
him
,
to
declare
the
authority
giuen
not
only
to
him
,
and
the
Church
for
his
tyme
,
but
also
to
his
successors
,
&
the
whole
church
in
al
future
times
,
and
ages
vntill
the
end
of
the
world
.
And
this
M.
Collins
may
take
(
if
it
please
him
)
for
a
fourth
consideration
distinct
from
the
other
,
which
he
mentioned
;
&
acknowledg
withall
,
that
it
doth
not
spoyle
vs
of
all
(
as
you
heard
him
say
in
his
conclusion
)
but
rather
confirme
all
our
doctrine
concerning
this
point
.
11.
But
who
would
imagine
that
this
Doctor
had
so
little
wit
,
as
seeing
himselfe
so
puzled
,
that
he
is
forced
to
scamble
,
and
wrangle
(
as
you
see
)
to
shift
off
thes●
places
of
S.
Augustine
with
most
false
interpretations
,
and
absurd
glosses
,
would
yet
farther
hazard
,
and
venter
as
well
his
owne
reputation
,
as
the
credit
of
his
cause
in
vrging
still
agaynst
vs
the
doctrine
of
S.
Augustine
in
this
place
,
albeyt
he
cannot
but
see
(
if
he
haue
any
wit
)
that
it
vtterly
ouerthroweth
him
.
But
,
qui
semel
verecundiae
fines
transierit
,
gnauiter
impudentem
esse
oportet
:
He
which
hath
once
passed
the
bounds
of
modesty
must
be
impudent
in
good
earnest
,
&
therfore
this
silly
man
being
already
ouer
the
shooes
,
seeth
now
no
other
remedy
but
to
runne
ouer
the
eares
,
and
is
not
ashamed
to
prosecute
the
matter
still
,
continuing
the
same
for
7.
or
8.
pages
,
with
such
a
deale
of
tittle
tattle
,
as
truly
if
I
should
alleadge
his
whole
text
,
and
answere
euery
thing
particulerly
,
I
should
be
too
to
tedious
not
only
to
my selfe
,
but
also
to
my
reader
,
and
therefore
I
will
only
lay
downe
so
much
of
his
text
,
as
shal
be
to
any
purpose
,
and
briefly
touch
the
rest
so
farre
as
shal
be
needfull
.
12.
First
he
obserueth
pag
.
22.
num
.
18.
that
S.
Augustine
teacheth
,
that
Petrus
à
petra
,
sicut
Christianus
à
Christo
,
and
not
è
contra
(
sayth
he
)
that
our
boast
should
not
be
in
men
,
but
in
the
liuing
God
.
And
who
denyeth
this
?
was
there
euer
any
man
so
mad
to
say
,
or
thinke
the
contrary
?
But
then
he
proceedeth
.
And
yet
in
truth
more
plainly
in
this
place
,
which
may
serue
,
if
any
thing
to
open
their
eyes
that
dare
build
vpon
a
man
,
as
the
foundation
of
their
Church
,
though
it
were
Peter
himselfe
,
that
I
say
not
how
vnworthy
creatures
now
in
his
Roome
.
Thus
he
;
so
as
now
you
shal
see
he
will
open
our
eyes
with
a
place
of
S.
Augustin
,
which
therfore
he
alleadgeth
thus
.
Ideo
quippe
ait
Dominus
&c.
For
therfore
sayth
our
Lord
,
Vpon
this
rocke
I
will
build
my
Church
,
because
Peter
had
sayd
,
thou
art
Christ
the
sonne
of
the
liuing
God
;
I
will
therfore
build
my
Church
,
sayth
he
,
vpon
this
rocke
,
which
thou
hast
confessed
.
For
the
rocke
was
Christ
,
vpon
which
foundation
euen
Peter
himselfe
was
sayne
to
be
built
.
For
another
foundati●n
can
no
man
lay
,
besides
that
which
is
layed
,
which
●s
Iesus
●hrist
.
So
he
out
of
S.
Augustine
.
13.
But
to
what
purpose
?
perhaps
he
meant
to
gul
some
very
simple
reader
,
in
making
him
belieue
that
when
we
teach
that
the
Church
was
built
vpon
S.
Peter
,
we
vnderstand
that
it
was
not
built
vpon
Christ
,
or
that
Christ
was
built
vpon
Peter
,
&
not
Peter
vpon
Christ
,
which
obiection
is
so
triuiall
and
s●ale
,
and
hath
beene
so
oft
answered
●y
Catholikes
,
that
he
may
be
ashamed
still
to
obiect
it
,
and
to
take
no
knowledge
of
the
answere
which
is
giuen
out
of
S.
Augustine
himselfe
;
who
albeit
in
the
place
before
alleadged
,
and
also
elswhere
,
he
doe
vnderstand
those
words
(
super
hanc
petram
)
to
be
spoken
by
our
Sauiour
of
his
owne
person
,
yet
doth
neuer
deny
,
but
teach
expresly
that
the
same
may
also
be
vnderstood
of
Peter
(
though
not
as
the
only
and
first
foundation
,
which
must
needs
be
Christ
)
but
as
a
secondary
foundation
built
vpon
Christ
.
14.
To
this
purpose
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
hauing
in
his
13.
Serm
.
de
verb
.
Dom
.
expounded
those
wordes
thus
,
Id
est
super
meipsum
filium
Dei
viui
aedificabo
Ecclesiam
meam
.
That
is
to
say
,
I
will
build
my
Church
vpon
my selfe
the
sonne
of
the
liuing
God
,
he
addeth
presently
,
super
me
aedisicabo
te
,
non
me
super
te
:
I
will
build
thee
vpon
me
,
and
not
me
vpon
thee
.
And
in
his
first
booke
of
retractations
cap
.
21.
he
acknowledgeth
that
place
to
receiue
both
the
interpretations
;
I
meane
to
be
vnderstood
literally
aswell
of
Peter
,
as
of
Christ
,
yet
not
so
of
Peter
,
as
to
exclude
Christ
from
being
the
chiefe
and
principall
foundation
,
whereof
neuer
any
Christian
man
,
and
much
lesse
any
Catholike
euer
doubted
.
15.
Therfore
S.
Augustine
hauing
signified
that
he
himselfe
had
interpreted
the
same
both
wayes
,
and
that
the
one
way
(
viz.
to
make
Peter
the
rocke
)
was
at
that
tyme
so
common
,
that
cantatur
(
saith
he
)
ore
multorum
&c.
it
is
song
in
the
mouthes
of
many
,
in
an
hymne
of
the
blessed
Ambrose
,
he
conc●udeth
;
harum
duarum
sententiarum
quae
sit
probabilior
eligat
lector
;
of
these
two
opinions
(
concerning
the
litterall
interpretation
of
these
words
)
let
the
reader
choose
whether
he
thinketh
more
probable
.
So
he
;
being
so
farre
from
reiecting
the
interpretation
of
Peter
to
be
the
rocke
,
that
he
not
only
vsed
the
same
himselfe
,
but
also
fortifyeth
it
heere
,
as
you
see
,
with
the
authority
of
S.
Ambrose
,
and
the
publike
approbation
therof
in
those
dayes
,
and
finally
remitteth
it
to
the
choice
,
and
election
of
the
reader
to
follow
the
one
,
or
the
other
;
which
he
neuer
wold
haue
done
,
if
he
had
held
either
of
them
to
be
false
;
and
albeit
be
held
that
the
word
Petra
(
in
that
place
of
the
16.
chap.
of
S.
Mathew
)
was
to
be
referred
principally
,
and
immediatly
to
Christ
,
yet
he
doth
no
way
contradict
the
other
exposition
,
wherby
the
sayd
word
is
referred
secondarily
to
Peter
,
by
which
meanes
both
the
interpretations
do
stand
good
.
16.
But
now
let
vs
see
how
he
proceedeth
with
S.
Augustins
text
pag
.
23.
num
.
18.
Ecclesia
(
sayth
he
)
quae
fundatur
in
Christo
&c.
The
Church
which
is
founded
in
Christ
,
receiued
of
him
the
keyes
of
the
Kingdome
of
heauen
in
Peter
,
that
is
,
the
power
of
bynding
,
and
loosing
sinns
for
that
which
properly
the
Church
is
in
Christ
,
the
very
same
by
signification
is
Peter
in
the
rocke
:
by
which
signification
Christ
is
vnderstood
to
be
the
rocke
,
Peter
to
be
the
Church
.
This
Church
therfore
which
Peter
signifyed
&c.
Thus
farre
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
S.
Augustins
wordes
.
And
then
glosseth
them
thus
.
I
say
nothing
(
sayth
he
)
of
signification
,
whereof
inough
before
,
and
euery
lyne
in
S.
Augustine
is
fraught
with
it
.
But
is
not
this
strange
,
that
Peter
,
whome
euery
where
they
aduance
for
the
head
,
S.
Augustine
should
still
take
for
the
body
?
So
he
,
wherin
you
see
he
still
harpeth
vpon
his
old
stringe
,
vrging
agaynst
me
S.
Aug.
his
vnderstanding
of
gerere
personam
Ecclesia●
As
that
it
is
only
to
signify
,
and
represent
the
Church
;
wherof
he
saith
also
very
truly
that
he
hath
sayd
inough
before
,
for
so
he
hath
indeed
,
yea
and
more
then
inough
,
&
with
shame
inough
,
hauing
so
peruerted
my
sense
and
meaning
,
as
you
still
see
he
doth
.
17.
But
wheras
he
hath
found
out
heere
one
of
the
7.
wonders
,
to
wit
that
S.
Augustine
should
take
still
S.
Peter
for
the
body
,
whom
we
aduance
euery
where
for
the
●ead
;
I
can
tell
him
a
farre
greater
wonder
in
S.
Augustin
,
to
wit
that
he
takes
Christ
himselfe
very
often
for
the
body
,
whome
we
all
worthily
acknowledge
to
be
the
head
;
to
which
purpose
thou
mayst
remember
,
good
Reader
,
what
I
haue
alleaged
before
out
of
S.
Augustine
cap
.
3.
num
.
6.
to
shew
that
S.
Peter
was
not
excluded
from
the
Gouernment
of
the
Church
vnder
Christ
,
because
he
represented
,
and
signified
the
Church
,
seeing
that
the
same
argument
if
it
were
good
agaynst
S.
Peter
,
would
exclude
our
Sauiour
also
from
being
head
therof
,
who
as
S.
Augustine
sayth
,
non
solum
caput
,
sed
corpus
est
;
It
is
not
only
the
head
,
but
also
the
body
.
And
that
he
exclaymed
in
his
Passion
,
as
if
he
suffered
somwhat
agaynst
his
will
,
quia
caput
membra
sua
praefigurat
:
Because
being
bead
he
doth
prefigure
his
members
.
And
●a●tly
,
that
Corpus
suum
gerebat
,
id
est
Ecclesiam
;
he
●●are
his
body
,
that
is
to
say
,
the
Church
.
Which
(
as
I
signifyed
before
)
was
as
much
in
e●fect
,
as
if
he
had
said
,
gerebat
personam
Ecclesiae
,
he
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
which
was
his
body
.
18.
And
this
being
so
the
greatest
wonder
▪
that
I
see
heere
is
,
that
so
great
a
Doctor
of
●iuinity
as
M.
Collins
is
,
and
so
conuersant
in
S.
Augustine
should
be
so
ignorant
of
his
doctrine
,
as
to
make
it
a
strange
matter
,
that
we
should
aduance
S.
Peter
for
the
head
,
whome
S.
Augustine
takes
for
the
body
,
seeing
that
S.
Augustine
maketh
not
only
him
,
but
also
our
Sauiour
himselfe
to
signify
the
Church
,
quia
caput
membra
sua
praefigurat
,
because
the
head
doth
prefigure
his
members
;
Et
propter
primatum
(
sayth
Augustine
of
S.
Peter
)
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
;
In
respect
of
the
primacy
,
which
be
had
amongst
the
disciples
.
So
as
I
see
no
other
cause
of
this
wonder
in
M.
Collins
,
but
his
notable
ignorance
,
as
little
children
,
&
fooles
wonder
at
euery
thing
,
by
reason
of
their
little
knowledge
&
experience
.
There
followeth
in
M.
Collins
a
friuolous
,
and
most
idle
digression
about
an
argument
,
which
he
sayth
some
of
ours
make
for
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
out
of
our
Sauiour
his
wodes
sequere
me
,
as
it
it
were
,
follow
me
in
the
gouernement
of
the
Church
,
which
he
sayth
is
a
strange
probleme
of
desperat
pleaders
.
But
he
cyteth
no
author
of
ours
,
&
sure
I
am
he
fyndeth
no
such
argument
in
my
Adioynder
,
and
therefore
I
let
his
answere
therto
passe
without
answere
,
as
not
worth
the
labour
to
write
it
.
19.
After
this
commeth
his
ample
discourse
,
and
commentary
vpon
S.
Augustins
comparison
of
S.
Peter
with
S.
Iohn
,
making
them
figures
,
the
one
of
the
temporall
life
,
and
the
other
of
the
eternal
,
of
which
comparison
,
and
M.
Collins
his
foolish
argument
deduced
from
the
same
agaynst
S.
Peters
supremacy
,
I
haue
largely
treated
before
(
in
the
2.
chap.
num
.
22.
23.
&c.
)
by
occasion
of
the
like
comparison
made
not
only
by
S.
Augustine
betwixt
Iudas
and
Peter
;
but
also
by
Origen
betwixt
S.
Peter
and
S.
Iohn
,
which
later
is
alleadged
and
vrged
also
by
M.
Collins
himselfe
cap
.
5.
pag
.
203.
And
I
haue
already
in
this
treatise
cap
.
2.
num
.
33.
sufficiently
discouered
his
impudent
malice
in
concealing
,
and
dissembling
Origens
cleare
doctrine
of
S.
Peters
primacy
in
the
same
place
,
which
he
alleadgeth
,
and
vrgeth
agaynst
it
;
besides
that
I
haue
also
shewed
there
,
that
Origen
doth
in
the
same
place
expresly
disclayme
from
derogating
in
any
sort
from
the
supreme
dignity
of
S.
Peter
,
when
he
prefer●eth
S.
Iohn
(
as
a
figure
of
the
contemplatiue
●i●e
)
before
Peter
(
as
a
figure
of
the
actiue
life
)
whereby
M.
Collins
might
learne
(
as
I
signified
there
)
that
S.
Augustine
(
who
imitated
Origen
therin
)
might
make
also
the
like
comparison
betwixt
S.
Peter
and
S.
Iohn
(
as
figures
of
the
temporall
,
and
eternall
life
)
without
any
preiudice
in
the
world
to
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
;
so
as
I
shall
not
need
to
trouble
thee
,
good
reader
,
with
any
further
discourse
concerning
that
comparison
,
but
only
to
make
some
reflexion
vpon
his
conclusion
thereof
pag
.
29.
num
.
20.
wherin
he
seemeth
to
preoccupate
an
obiection
,
which
he
supposeth
I
may
make
against
him
.
20.
Agaynst
this
(
sayth
he
)
I
know
what
M.
F.
●
.
will
say
(
for
he
sayth
no
more
then
out
of
the
mouth
of
his
best
Maysters
)
as
Iohn
really
,
so
Peter
really
,
as
the
one
lay
vpon
our
Sauiours
brest
,
and
it
was
no
fiction
,
so
the
other
receiued
the
keyes
of
the
Kingdome
of
heauen
,
and
it
was
more
then
a
bare
representation
.
Who
doubtes
but
S.
Peter
receiued
the
keyes
,
as
well
as
Iohn
leaned
on
Christs
bosome
?
But
Peter
receiued
the
keyes
in
the
person
of
the
Church
militant
,
because
our
Lord
would
honour
vnity
&c.
And
Iohn
rested
,
and
repasted
himselfe
on
his
sacred
bosome
,
as
a
figure
of
the
triumphant
,
to
shadow
out
vnto
vs
the
estate
of
glory
,
and
blessed
immortality
&c.
So
he
:
and
a
little
after
.
In
this
(
sayth
he
)
stands
the
answere
that
both
Peter
receiued
,
&
receiued
for
himselfe
(
for
he
had
a
part
in
the
keyes
as
well
as
others
we
deny
it
not
but
{αβγδ}
,
not
{αβγδ}
portionally
,
&
particulerly
,
not
wholy
&
intirely
,
sa●e
only
as
he
stood
in
the
Churches
roome
to
grace
vnity
,
And
this
proues
no
vniuersall
authority
,
as
not
Iohn
in
the
triumphant
,
as
not
Iudas
in
the
malignant
,
so
neyther
Pe●e●
in
the
militant
;
but
so
much
may
suffice
to
haue
spoken
thereof
.
Thus
farre
M.
Collins
.
21.
In
this
his
discourse
I
wish
two
thinges
to
be
noted
;
the
one
,
that
he
sayth
Peter
receyued
the
keyes
in
person
of
the
Church
militant
,
because
our
Lord
would
honour
,
and
grace
vnity
,
which
,
sayth
he
,
proues
no
vniuersall
authority
.
The
absurdity
whereof
I
haue
shewed
before
cap
.
2.
nu
.
14.
&
15.
by
3
reasons
.
The
first
,
for
that
it
is
a
simple
,
&
an
absurd
manner
of
arguing
to
impugne
,
and
contradict
one
truth
by
an
other
,
as
to
deny
that
S.
Peter
representeth
the
Church
for
his
primacy
,
because
he
doth
it
,
to
shew
the
vnity
therof
,
seeing
that
both
respects
may
,
and
do
stand
well
togeather
;
and
therefore
are
both
of
them
taught
by
S.
Augustine
.
The
second
reason
was
,
that
M●
Collins
making
S.
Augustine
exclude
,
and
deny
S.
Peters
primacy
,
because
he
represented
the
vnity
of
the
Church
maketh
him
flatly
cō●●adict
himselfe
,
seeing
that
he
affirmeth
●xpresly
(
as
hath
been
oft
declared
)
that
when
〈◇〉
Peter
receiued
the
keyes
,
he
represented
the
●hurch
propter
primatum
&
therfore
not
to
ho●our
,
&
grace
vnity
only
,
as
M.
Coll
.
wil
needs
●aue
S.
Aug.
to
teach
;
so
as
if
he
will
belieue
●im
in
the
one
,
he
must
belieue
him
in
the
●ther
,
or
els
make
him
ouerthrow
the
one
●y
the
other
,
and
contradict
himselfe
.
The
●hird
reason
was
that
the
consideration
of
●he
vnity
of
the
Church
represented
by
S.
Peter
is
so
farre
from
preiudicing
his
prima●y
,
that
it
doth
notably
fortify
,
and
proue
●t
,
as
I
haue
shewed
amply
in
my
Adioinder
cap
.
3.
num
.
1.
2.
3.
4.
&
36.
out
of
S.
Cyprian
,
and
S.
Hierome
,
&
haue
also
signifyed
it
heere
before
cap
.
2.
num
.
17.
&
18.
22.
The
other
thing
which
I
wish
to
be
noted
in
M.
Collins
his
Conclusion
is
,
that
he
now
alloweth
to
S.
Peter
a
part
in
the
keyes
,
aswell
as
to
the
other
Apostles
,
graunting
that
he
receyued
them
really
for
himselfe
,
aswell
as
for
the
whole
Church
,
yet
not
so
for
himselfe
,
but
that
the
other
Apostles
had
their
part
therin
,
which
no
man
denyeth
;
but
that
which
I
note
herein
is
that
he
doth
manifestly
contradict
his
own
former
assertions
,
hauing
taxed
vs
before
pag
12
num
.
8.
for
affirming
,
that
what
is
g●uen
to
Peter
is
giuen
to
the
Church
,
&
wh●●
to
the
Church
the
same
to
Peter
;
wherupo●
it
followeth
that
he
holdeth
it
for
an
erro●
in
vs
to
teach
that
the
keyes
which
wer●
giuen
to
the
Church
in
Peter
,
were
giuen
also
to
Peter
;
and
therfore
he
laboureth
to
confute
this
out
of
S.
Augustine
in
the
same
place
(
though
by
a
frandulent
,
and
false
construction
of
him
)
saying
that
according
to
hi●
doctrine
,
Tibi
dabo
claues
,
can
haue
no
pregnā●
construction
but
of
the
Church
:
which
fraude
of
his
I
haue
discouered
before
cap
2.
num
.
3.
And
agayne
a
little
after
in
the
same
page
,
&
paragraph
he
saith
,
that
we
would
haue
the
keyes
so
to
be
ingrossed
by
S.
Peter
,
as
if
they
had
been
personally
deliuered
him
,
&
in
his
own
right
;
which
he
taxeth
also
as
an
error
of
ours
controled
by
S.
Austin
;
wheras
neuerthelesse
he
affirmeth
now
,
that
the
keyes
were
really
giuen
him
;
whereupon
it
followeth
that
they
were
giuen
him
personally
,
that
is
to
say
to
his
owne
person
,
and
for
himselfe
,
&
so
he
also
confesseth
heere
.
23.
Furthermore
in
another
place
pag
.
9.
lin
.
penul
.
I
tell
you
(
sayth
he
)
that
Peter
representeth
the
Church
no
otherwise
then
a
proxy
doth
him
that
he
standes
for
to
be
admitted
;
wherby
he
signifyeth
plainly
that
Peter
receaued
not
in
any
sort
the
keyes
for
himselfe
,
seeing
that
〈◇〉
proxy
receiueth
nothing
for
himselfe
,
but
●ll
for
him
that
he
standeth
for
;
and
this
deuise
of
a
proxy
pleaseth
him
so
much
that
he
vseth
the
same
afterwards
agayn
,
calling
Peter
the
image
or
proxy
of
the
Church
pag
.
34.
nu
.
22.
and
then
addeth
to
iustify
the
same
,
for
I
feare
not
,
sayth
he
,
to
vouch
that
name
by
him
,
which
hath
euery
where
so
good
grounds
in
S.
Augustine
as
you
haue
heard
.
So
he
,
meaning
by
those
good
grounds
,
which
we
haue
heard
,
al
that
which
he
hath
hitherto
so
much
vrged
out
of
S
Augustine
touching
the
representation
of
the
Church
in
S.
Peters
person
,
wherby
he
will
haue
S.
Augustine
to
teach
,
that
S.
Peter
receyued
the
keyes
,
no
otherwise
then
as
a
proxy
for
the
Church
,
and
consequently
that
he
receiued
nothing
for
himselfe
.
24.
Neuerthelesse
hauing
now
better
be
thought
himselfe
,
he
graunteth
,
that
S.
Peter
receyued
the
keyes
really
for
himselfe
:
whereupon
I
inferre
that
he
receiued
them
otherwise
then
a
proxy
:
besides
that
followeth
also
thereupon
,
that
receiuing
the
keyes
for
himselfe
,
he
receiued
power
,
&
authority
,
which
is
signifyed
by
the
keyes
:
and
seeing
this
power
,
and
authority
was
giuen
him
(
according
to
S.
Augustine
)
as
he
represented
the
Church
propter
primatum
,
for
his
primacy
,
and
that
the
sayd
primacy
was
giu●●
him
no
other
wayes
then
by
the
keyes
,
an●
the
Commission
of
the
pastor
;
it
is
euide●●
that
the
primacy
)
which
S.
Augustine
acknowledged
in
S.
Peter
)
was
a
primacy
o●
power
,
and
authority
,
and
not
of
place
,
order
,
and
excellency
only
;
as
M.
Collins
(
following
my
Lord
of
Winchester
)
would
haue
it
to
be
thought
,
the
absurdity
whereof
I
haue
she●ed
more
at
large
before
in
the
2.
cap
.
num
.
15.
So
as
this
filly
man
hauing
striuen
,
and
struggled
all
this
while
,
hath
so
intangled
himselfe
(
as
I
may
say
)
in
the
snares
,
and
limetwigges
of
his
own
contradictions
,
absurdityes
,
and
follies
that
he
is
forced
in
the
end
to
graunt
so
much
,
that
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
which
he
most
impugneth
,
doth
necessarily
follow
therof
.
A
fourth
place
of
S.
AVGVSTINE
is
debated
,
which
M.
Collins
chargeth
the
Adioynder
to
haue
alleadged
lamely
,
and
fraudulently
.
The
imputation
of
fraude
is
cleared
.
A
false
glosse
of
M.
Collins
vpon
S.
Cyprian
is
disproued
.
Fiue
or
six
notable
fooleryes
of
his
detected
;
with
his
manifest
corruption
,
and
falsification
of
the
sense
,
and
text
of
the
Adioynder
.
CHAP.
V.
I
Haue
hitherto
examined
his
●nswere
to
the
3.
places
which
I
alleadged
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
S.
Augustine
to
proue
that
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
in
respect
of
his
Primacy
,
and
you
haue
seene
how
well
Mayster
Collins
hath
quit
himselfe
in
the
answere
therof
;
it
resteth
now
that
I
say
somewhat
to
that
which
followeth
immediatly
in
M.
Coll
.
touching
the
place
of
S.
Aug.
which
was
first
in
question
betwixt
my
Lord
of
Winchester
and
me
,
&
hath
been
the
cause
of
all
this
dispute
.
And
for
as
much
as
I
charged
his
LP
.
with
the
lame
quotation
of
the
sayd
place
(
in
respect
that
the
precedent
,
&
subsequent
wordes
in
S.
●ugustine
left
out
by
his
LP
.
did
shew
that
the
place
doth
make
rather
for
the
primacy
of
S
Peter
then
agaynst
it
)
M.
Collins
being
desirous
to
pay
me
with
my
own
money
,
chargeth
me
roundly
with
the
lame
quotation
also
of
the
sayd
place
,
which
remayneth
to
be
discussed
,
and
debated
betwixt
vs.
2.
The
place
is
in
S.
Augustines
Treatise
de
agone
Christiano
cap
.
30.
and
I
alleaged
it
in
my
Adioynder
thus
.
Non
enim
sine
causa
inter
omnes
Apostolos
&c.
For
not
without
cause
doth
Peter
susteyn
the
person
of
the
Church
amongst
al
the
Apostles
.
For
to
this
Church
the
keyes
of
the
Kingdome
of
heauen
were
giuen
,
when
they
were
giuen
to
Peter
,
and
when
it
was
sayd
to
him
,
Dost
thou
loue
me
?
feede
my
sheepe
,
it
was
sayd
vnto
all
;
and
therfore
the
Catholike
Church
ought
willingly
to
pardon
her
children
,
when
they
are
corrected
,
and
strengthned
in
piety
,
seeing
we
see
,
that
to
Peter
himselfe
bearing
the
person
of
the
Church
,
pardon
was
graunted
,
both
when
he
had
doubted
vpon
the
sea
&c.
and
when
he
had
●hrice
denied
his
Maister
&c.
Thus
far
I
alleaged
S.
Austine
,
&
then
I
obserued
therin
that
the
reaso
why
Pasce
oues
meas
(
which
our
Sauiour
●poke
to
S.
Peter
)
was
sayd
to
all
the
Church
(
according
to
S.
Augustine
)
was
because
S.
Peter
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
which
he
did
by
reason
of
the
supreme
authority
,
that
he
had
ouer
the
Church
;
and
this
I
proued
●atter
by
those
three
places
of
S.
Aug.
which
haue
hitherto
been
debated
,
betwixt
M.
Collins
and
me
,
by
which
places
it
is
euident
(
as
you
haue
seene
)
that
S.
Peter
did
beare
the
per●on
of
the
Church
propter
primatum
quem
in
disc●pulis
habuit
;
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
Apostles
.
And
therefore
for
as
much
as
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
alleadged
out
of
this
place
only
these
words
,
Cùm
Petro
dicitur
,
ad
omnes
dicitur
pasce
oues
meas
:
when
it
was
sayd
to
Peter
,
it
was
sayd
to
all
,
feede
my
sheepe
;
(
the
true
meaning
whereof
in
S.
Augustine
was
to
be
deduced
out
of
the
circumstances
of
the
place
,
especially
out
of
those
wordes
,
that
S.
Peter
did
sustayne
and
beare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
which
my
Lord
of
Winchester
dissembled
)
I
therfore
worthily
charged
his
LP
.
with
the
lame
quotaion
of
it
.
3.
Now
let
vs
see
what
M.
Collins
findeth
wanting
in
the
forsayd
place
,
as
I
alleadged
it
,
&
with
what
reason
he
chargeth
me
with
clipping
the
text
to
my
aduantage
.
The
place
,
as
I
haue
layd
it
downe
before
endeth
as
you
may
see
with
2.
etcaetera's
,
signifying
that
for
breuities
sake
I
omitted
to
cite
that
which
followed
,
being
to
no
other
purpose
,
thē
that
which
I
had
already
alleadged
conteyning
certayne
errors
,
&
faults
of
S.
Peter
,
wherof
I
layd
down
2.
the
one
his
doubting
vpon
the
sea
,
&
the
other
his
three
denials
of
our
Sauiour
,
which
two
might
suffice
to
make
the
sense
of
the
place
perfect
;
the
rest
which
I
left
vncited
eyther
importing
nothing
to
the
matter
in
question
,
or
making
rather
for
vs
then
against
vs.
Now
M.
Coll
.
pag
.
35.
num
.
23.
to
giue
the
more
colour
to
his
imputation
of
fraude
in
me
,
doth
not
only
seriously
lay
downe
those
faultes
of
S.
Peter
,
which
I
left
vnmentioned
,
but
also
maketh
ample
commentaryes
vpon
them
,
stuffed
with
no
lesse
impertinent
,
&
idle
matter
then
you
haue
seene
in
the
former
.
4.
The
faultes
alleadged
by
him
,
&
omitted
be
me
are
three
:
the
first
his
diswading
our
Sauiour
from
death
,
for
the
which
our
Sauior
called
him
Sathan
,
but
of
this
he
hath
little
,
or
nothing
to
say
,
but
that
Christ
did
giue
it
a
heauy
censure
:
the
second
is
the
snipping
off
(
as
he
tearmeth
it
)
of
Malchus
his
●are
,
with
his
sword
,
which
he
sayth
;
I
●urst
not
so
much
as
once
to
mention
,
it
maks
so
harsh
〈◇〉
sound
;
and
why
trow
you
?
forsooth
because
●e
hath
found
out
a
deuise
to
apply
this
to
●he
Popes
sword
,
yea
and
telleth
vs
of
some
that
he
hath
heard
of
,
who
thinke
that
for
Peter
to
draw
his
sword
at
Malchus
(
because
Malchus
in
Hebrew
signifyeth
a
King
)
was
eyther
a
presage
,
or
iustification
of
the
Popes
practises
at
this
day
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
;
and
giueth
thereby
a
great
blow
to
some
indiuiduum
vagum
,
of
whom
he
hath
heard
this
reported
,
for
he
nameth
no
man
,
eyther
in
his
text
,
or
his
margent
,
as
no
doubt
but
he
would
haue
done
if
he
could
.
But
why
he
shold
say
that
I
durst
not
so
much
as
mention
this
,
truly
I
see
not
,
seeing
that
this
ridiculous
conceit
of
his
(
if
it
should
be
any
of
ours
)
could
make
nothing
agaynst
vs
,
but
ra
her
much
for
vs
;
&
therfore
I
must
leaue
it
to
the
reader
to
iudge
of
the
depth
of
his
conceit
,
which
for
my
part
I
cannot
penetrate
.
The
3.
fault
of
S.
Peter
omitted
by
me
,
was
his
simulation
at
Antioch
,
for
the
which
S.
Paul
reprehended
him
,
which
he
sayth
pag
.
37
nu
.
25.
I
thought
good
to
leaue
out
,
caelans
peccata
sicut
Adam
,
eyther
because
it
drawes
so
neere
an
errour
in
sayth
,
or
at
least
for
subiecting
the
Monarchy
of
the
whole
world
,
to
the
open
resistance
,
and
reproofe
of
a●
abortiue
.
So
he
.
5.
Heere
you
see
he
alleadgeth
two
reasons
,
why
I
omitted
this
fault
of
S.
Peters
;
the
one
because
it
drawes
so
neere
to
an
errour
in
fayth
;
and
the
other
because
I
feared
to
subiect
therby
S.
Peter
(
whome
we
hold
for
the
Monarch
of
the
world
)
to
S.
Paul
,
a
latter
Apostle
.
As
for
the
former
he
may
be
ashamed
truly
to
draw
it
neere
to
an
errour
in
fayth
,
which
some
of
the
Fathers
do
excuse
from
al
errour
,
holding
that
this
reprehension
of
S.
Peter
by
S.
Paul
,
touching
his
dissimulation
with
the
Iewes
in
the
obseruation
of
their
Ceremoniall
law
,
grew
vpon
an
agreement
betwixt
them
two
;
to
the
end
that
the
Iewes
seeing
S.
Peter
receiue
with
patience
a
rebuke
at
S.
Paules
hands
,
and
acknowledge
an
error
,
might
the
more
easily
be
withdrawen
from
the
superstitious
obseruation
of
their
law
,
to
imbrace
the
Christian
perfection
,
wherto
they
were
so
hard
to
be
induced
,
that
the
Apostles
were
forced
not
only
to
permit
them
to
abstayne
from
bloud
,
and
strangled
meates
,
but
also
to
ordeyn
,
and
commaund
it
to
the
Gentills
in
their
first
Councel
,
as
appeareth
in
the
Acts
of
the
Apostles
cap
.
15.
6.
For
this
cause
,
I
say
,
diuers
auncient
Fathers
,
namely
S.
Chrysostome
,
Theodoretus
,
Theophilactus
,
Oecumenius
vpon
the
epistle
to
the
Galathians
,
Cassianus
col.
17.
and
S.
Hierome
in
his
89.
Epist.
to
S.
Aug.
(
where
he
also
citeth
for
the
same
opinion
Origen
,
Didimus
,
Apollinar●s
,
Eusebius
Emissenus
,
and
Theodorus
Heracleotes
)
do
all
of
them
teach
that
S.
Peter
,
&
S.
Paul
mad●
a
compact
,
and
couenant
betwixt
themselues
,
that
S.
Peter
should
suffer
himselfe
to
be
reprehended
in
that
mannner
for
the
cause
before
specifyed
:
and
albeyt
S.
Augustine
and
others
were
of
opinion
that
S.
Peter
condescended
more
then
he
should
haue
done
to
the
infirmity
of
the
Iewes
,
and
that
therfore
he
was
reprehensible
,
as
S.
Paul
sayd
of
him
Gal.
2.
yet
neyther
he
,
nor
any
other
Father
thought
,
that
eyther
it
was
an
errour
in
fayth
,
or
yet
that
it
drew
neere
vnto
it
,
as
M.
Collins
saith
it
did
,
against
all
reason
,
seeing
it
consisted
only
in
his
conuersation
with
the
Iewes
,
which
was
no
matter
of
fayth
,
but
an
act
lawfull
in
it self
,
though
reprehensible
in
respect
of
some
circumstances
,
to
wit
for
the
scandall
that
the
Gentills
might
take
thereby
;
so
that
the
errour
was
not
in
fayth
,
but
in
prudence
,
(
yea
a
materiall
,
and
no
formall
errour
,
as
the
Schoolmen
speake
,
&
consequently
voide
of
sinne
)
and
yet
,
as
I
haue
sayd
,
blame
worthy
in
respect
of
the
inconuenience
which
might
haue
grown
of
it
,
if
it
had
passed
vncontroled
.
7.
But
I
would
gladly
know
heere
of
M.
Collins
,
what
he
should
gayne
by
it
,
or
we
loose
more
then
he
,
if
he
could
proue
it
to
be
an
error
in
fayth
;
for
this
being
only
a
priuate
error
of
S.
Peters
person
,
it
could
not
preiudice
the
authority
of
our
Popes
publik
decrees
(
which
is
the
marke
that
M.
Collins
aymes
at
)
for
we
hold
not
,
that
the
Pope
cannot
erre
in
his
priuate
actions
,
&
opinions
as
a
priuate
person
,
but
that
he
cannot
erre
in
the
publike
decrees
,
which
he
maketh
,
and
proposeth
to
the
whole
Church
.
Besids
that
if
S.
Peter
did
,
or
could
erre
in
fayth
,
we
might
doubt
whether
his
epistles
were
Canonicall
Scripture
,
or
S.
Markes
Ghospell
a
true
Ghospell
,
which
S.
Marke
wrote
by
his
relation
,
&
instruction
;
wherupon
it
would
also
follow
,
that
all
the
Apostles
,
&
Euangelists
might
erre
in
faith
,
who
had
no
greater
warrant
then
S.
Peter
,
neyther
yet
so
great
,
seing
that
our
Sauiour
(
as
he
signified
himselfe
Luc
.
22.
)
prayed
expresly
for
him
that
his
fayth
shold
not
fayle
,
which
we
do
not
read
that
he
did
so
particulerly
for
any
other
of
the
Apostles
;
&
therfore
M.
Collins
must
eyther
graunt
that
S.
Peter
did
not
erre
in
faith
,
but
in
fact
only
,
&
so
proue
nothing
against
our
Popes
;
or
if
he
say
heerred
,
or
could
erre
in
faith
,
he
shaketh
the
authority
of
all
the
new
testament
,
no
lesse
then
the
authority
of
all
the
Popes
decrees
:
so
as
you
see
how
impertinently
he
bableth
to
proue
some
fraud
in
me
,
for
the
omission
of
this
errour
in
S.
Peter
.
And
thus
much
to
his
first
reason
why
I
omitted
it
.
8.
His
second
is
,
that
I
thought
good
to
leaue
it
out
,
least
I
might
therby
subiect
the
Monarch
of
the
world
to
the
open
resistance
,
and
reprehension
of
an
abortiue
,
that
it
to
say
,
least
I
might
subiect
S.
Peter
to
S.
Paul
who
was
a
later
Apostle
,
and
according
to
our
doctrine
inferiour
and
subiect
to
S.
Peter
:
but
in
this
M.
Collins
must
needs
speak
agaynst
his
owne
knowledge
,
and
conscience
,
see
ng
that
he
saw
afterwards
in
my
Adioynder
,
that
I
was
so
farre
from
fearing
any
preiudice
to
S.
Peters
primacy
by
this
his
error
,
and
by
S.
Pauls
reprehension
therof
,
that
I
held
,
and
proued
it
to
be
confirmed
,
and
fortifyed
therby
,
according
to
the
collection
and
inference
that
the
auncient
Fathers
made
therof
,
namely
S.
Cyprian
,
and
S.
Augustine
,
whose
places
I
vrged
,
&
cited
to
that
purpose
;
and
M.
Collins
answered
them
so
miserably
,
that
he
could
not
but
see
the
force
thereof
,
and
know
in
his
owne
conscience
that
they
made
wholy
for
vs
;
and
therfore
to
the
end
that
thou
mayst
see
,
good
Reader
,
his
sleight
,
and
insufficient
answere
therto
,
and
consequently
the
little
reason
he
hath
to
charge
me
with
fraudulent
dealing
for
hauing
omitted
this
fault
or
S.
Peter
,
I
will
lay
downe
what
I
sayd
in
my
Adioynder
,
togeather
with
his
answere
,
and
make
thee
iudge
of
both
.
9.
The
occasion
which
I
had
to
treate
of
this
point
there
,
was
,
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
cap
.
8.
pag
.
218.
charged
Card
.
Bellarmine
with
fraud
,
because
he
alledged
certayne
wordes
of
S.
Cyprian
ep
.
ad
Quintum
,
to
proue
that
our
Sauiour
founded
the
church
vpon
S.
Peter
,
&
omitted
that
which
followed
.
The
words
alledged
by
the
Cardinal
were
these
.
Petrus
quem
Dominus
primum
elegit
,
&
super
quem
fundauit
Ecclesiam
;
and
that
which
my
Lord
of
Winchester
accuseth
him
to
haue
fraudulently
concealed
is
that
which
followeth
in
the
same
place
,
&
concerneth
S.
Paules
reprehension
of
S.
Peter
,
wherin
S.
Cyprian
signified
,
that
S.
Peter
did
not
challenge
any
thing
insolently
to
himselfe
,
nor
take
vpon
him
arrogantly
to
say
,
that
he
had
the
primacy
,
or
that
he
ought
to
be
obeyed
by
thē
that
were
yonger
,
and
later
then
he
.
Vpon
which
words
of
S.
Cyprian
my
Lord
of
Winchester
inferred
that
the
mynd
,
and
sense
of
S.
Cyprian
seemed
to
be
,
that
it
Peter
had
said
,
that
he
had
the
primacy
,
he
had
insolently
challenged
somewhat
to
himselfe
,
and
that
therefore
the
Cardinall
suppressed
that
part
of
the
text
&c.
Wherin
his
L●
.
giueth
the
reader
to
vnderstand
,
that
S.
Cyprian
doth
therby
affirme
that
S.
Peter
had
not
any
primacy
,
or
preheminency
,
and
that
therfore
he
should
haue
shewed
himselfe
very
insolent
,
and
arrogant
if
he
had
challenged
any
such
thing
to
himselfe
.
10.
For
the
confutation
wherof
I
produced
a
place
of
S.
Augustin
alleadged
also
by
the
Cardinall
in
his
Controuersies
,
to
proue
that
S.
Cyprian
acknowledged
therin
S.
Peters
Primacy
;
for
that
S.
Augustine
hauing
layd
downe
those
very
wordes
of
S.
Cyprian
lib
.
2.
de
Baptis
.
cap
1.
sayth
thus
:
Ecce
vbi
commemorat
Cyprianus
&c.
Behold
how
Cyprian
doth
shew
that
Peter
the
Apostle
(
in
whome
the
primacy
of
the
Apostles
is
preeminent
,
with
such
an
excellent
grace
)
was
corrected
by
Paul
a
later
Apostle
,
when
he
dealt
concerning
circumcision
otherwise
then
truth
required
&c.
So
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
wherby
it
euidently
appeareth
how
he
vnderstandeth
S.
Cyprian
,
to
wit
,
that
albeit
Peter
was
preeminent
,
and
farre
excelled
the
Apostles
by
reason
of
his
primacy
,
yet
when
he
erred
,
he
patiently
suffered
himselfe
to
be
corrected
by
S
Paul
,
and
did
not
insolently
&
arrogantly
defend
his
errour
,
standing
vpon
the
authority
of
his
primacy
,
and
challenging
obedience
of
S.
Paul
,
and
others
.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
,
with
more
concerning
this
matter
,
whic●
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
lay
downe
also
after
a
while
:
but
by
this
it
is
euident
inough
that
M.
Collins
seeing
this
in
my
Adioynder
could
not
with
reason
charge
me
to
haue
dissembled
this
errour
of
S.
Peter
traudulently
,
as
making
much
against
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
when
he
knew
that
not
only
Card
.
Bellarmine
,
but
also
I
myselfe
had
made
vse
of
it
,
&
vrged
it
for
confirmation
of
S.
Peters
primacy
,
according
to
the
sense
,
and
m●nde
of
these
2.
ancient
Fathers
.
11.
But
now
M.
Collins
will
say
perhaps
,
that
in
his
3.
chap.
he
hath
answered
this
amongst
other
thinges
.
Let
vs
then
see
what
he
sayth
;
first
,
he
vndertaketh
cap
.
3.
num
.
3.
pag
.
131.
to
answere
our
obiection
out
of
this
place
of
S.
Cyprian
,
&
saith
thus
.
Now
in
the
Epistle
ad
Quintum
what
fynd
we
?
Petrus
quem
primùm
Dominus
elegit
,
&
super
quem
aedificauit
Ecclesiam
suam
.
As
if
one
of
these
did
not
expound
another
;
for
our
Sauiour
is
sayd
to
haue
built
his
Church
vpon
Peter
,
in
that
he
chose
him
first
,
not
chose
him
to
be
first
,
primùm
eligit
,
non
elegit
in
primatem
,
as
preuenting
him
with
the
promise
,
and
honouring
him
with
the
exhibition
of
the
keyes
before
the
rest
&c.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
who
you
see
will
needes
haue
primum
,
in
S.
Cyprian
,
to
signify
first
chosen
,
and
not
chosen
to
be
the
first
,
or
c●iefe
;
which
exposition
of
his
S.
Augustine
doth
euidently
controle
,
expounding
(
as
you
haue
heard
)
primum
,
in
S.
Cyprian
,
by
a
preeminent
primacy
of
the
Apostleship
,
in
which
respect
M.
Collins
,
when
he
commeth
afterwards
pag
.
133.
to
say
somewhat
to
S.
Augustine
his
place
,
is
faygne
to
charge
him
with
some
defect
of
memory
,
saying
thus
.
S.
Aug.
albeit
he
alter
the
words
of
S.
Cyprian
(
as
is
soone
done
in
allegations
of
memory
)
yet
he
keeps
the
sense
,
and
sauours
you
nothing
;
the
primatus
Apostolorum
excellenti
gratia
praeeminens
,
standing
in
dignity
,
and
quality
(
let
the
word
gratia
help
to
perswade
you
)
not
in
authority
.
So
he
.
12.
In
these
few
lines
of
his
3.
or
4.
egregious
fooleries
may
be
noted
.
The
first
,
that
he
would
perswade
his
reader
,
that
S.
Augustine
so
much
trusted
to
his
memory
in
the
allegation
of
S.
Cyprian
,
that
eyther
he
had
not
his
epistle
,
or
at
least
did
not
looke
vpon
it
,
when
he
alleadged
it
,
and
thereby
altered
the
words
therof
for
lacke
of
memory
;
wheras
it
cannot
be
thought
with
any
reason
that
S.
Augustine
writing
then
against
the
Donatists
(
who
relied
vpon
the
authority
of
S.
Cyprian
)
and
alleadging
so
much
out
of
him
as
he
did
(
both
in
the
place
which
is
now
in
question
,
and
also
afterwards
)
was
not
very
wary
,
and
careful
both
to
haue
the
epistle
it selfe
,
and
also
to
consider
it
well
,
hauing
to
deale
with
such
subtile
and
captious
Aduersaryes
as
he
had
;
and
therefore
this
is
but
a
simple
,
and
very
absurd
shift
,
worthy
of
M.
Collins
,
shewing
rather
great
want
of
wit
in
himselfe
then
any
defect
of
memory
of
S.
Augustine
.
13.
The
second
foolery
is
,
that
he
saith
,
that
albeit
S.
Augustine
do
alter
the
wordes
,
yet
he
doth
not
alter
the
sense
of
S.
Cyprian
,
wherin
he
sayth
very
truly
&
condemneth
himselfe
vtterly
.
For
the
sense
of
S.
Augustins
words
are
most
clearely
to
be
vnderstood
of
S.
Peters
preeminent
primacy
:
wherupon
it
followeth
by
M.
Collins
his
owne
confession
,
that
the
sense
of
S.
Cyprians
wordes
is
the
same
,
though
S.
Augustine
for
lacke
of
memory
perhaps
altered
them
.
Where
then
is
M.
Collins
his
construction
of
primùm
in
S.
Cyprian
,
as
if
he
meant
that
S.
Peter
was
first
chose
,
&
not
chosen
to
be
the
first
or
chiefe
?
Primum
elegit
(
sayth
M.
Collins
)
and
not
elegit
in
primatem
;
wheras
S.
Augustine
reteyning
S.
Cyprians
sense
(
as
M.
Collins
confesseth
)
acknowledgeth
a
preeminent
primacy
in
S.
Peter
.
Do
you
see
●●nem
how
this
seely
man
contradicteth
him●elfe
,
and
ouerthroweth
his
owne
exposition
?
14.
The
third
foolery
is
,
that
he
saith
S
Augustine
fauoureth
vs
nothing
,
by
acknowledging
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
,
because
the
sayd
primacy
standeth
in
dignity
●nd
quality
,
and
not
in
authority
.
But
this
deuise
of
his
,
I
haue
answered
sufficiently
before
cap
.
4.
num
.
24.
and
more
amply
cap
.
2.
num
.
15.
&
16.
where
I
haue
proued
out
of
●he
ancient
Fathers
,
that
the
Pastorall
commission
,
and
power
of
the
keyes
giuen
to
S.
Peter
by
our
Sauiour
for
himselfe
,
and
the
Church
,
did
consist
in
authority
of
gouernement
,
and
not
in
a
bare
preeminence
of
●lace
,
order
,
or
excellency
,
which
also
may
●e
confirmed
,
euen
by
this
place
of
S.
Cypri●n
now
in
question
,
seeing
that
he
acknow●edgeth
therein
,
that
our
Lord
built
his
Church
vpon
S.
Peter
,
saying
Matt
.
16.
super
●●uem
aedificauit
Ecclesiam
suam
;
for
albeit
M.
Col●●ns
saith
that
our
Sauiour
is
said
in
S.
Cyprian
to
●aue
built
his
Church
vpon
S.
Peter
,
because
he
chose
●im
first
,
and
that
S.
Cyprian
doth
therby
ex●ound
his
precedent
wordes
,
quem
Dominus
●●imum
eligit
;
yet
he
hath
not
any
other
reason
for
the
same
,
but
that
it
is
his
pleasure
〈◇〉
to
say
;
whereas
the
analogy
,
and
proportion
which
is
betwixt
the
foundation
in
a
building
,
and
the
head
in
a
commonwealth
or
community
,
doth
cleerly
shew
,
that
our
Sauiour
made
S.
Peter
head
of
his
Church
,
in
building
the
same
vpon
him
,
besides
that
S.
Cyprian
in
saying
that
our
Sauiour
buil●
his
Church
vpon
S.
Peter
,
had
relation
,
n●
doubt
,
to
our
Sauiours
promise
made
to
S.
Peter
,
when
he
sayd
Mat
.
16.
super
hanc
Petr●●
aedificabo
Ecclesiam
meam
,
vpon
this
rock
I
wi●●
build
my
c●urch
,
which
promise
was
mad●
long
after
his
vocation
,
or
election
to
the
Apostleship
,
and
therefore
signifyed
some
future
thing
to
be
performed
afterwards
,
an●
not
the
vocation
which
was
already
past
▪
for
no
man
promiseth
a
thing
past
,
especially
that
which
cannot
be
reiterated
,
or
recouered
;
whereby
M.
Collins
his
childish
folly
i●
most
euident
in
affirming
that
our
Sauiou●
is
sayd
to
haue
built
his
church
vpon
S.
Peter
,
becau●●
he
chose
him
first
,
seeing
that
his
election
w●●
(
as
I
haue
sayd
)
before
that
the
building
o●
the
Church
vpon
him
was
so
much
as
promised
him
.
15.
The
fourth
foolery
is
,
that
he
sait●
the
word
Gratia
,
may
help
to
perswade
me
,
that
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
was
not
a
Primacy
of
authority
,
but
of
dignity
:
but
truly
I
shal
be
very
hardly
so
perswaded
,
except
he
can
perswade
me
first
,
that
the
same
word
in
the
title
of
the
Kings
maiesty
,
and
of
other
Christian
Kings
(
who
are
sayd
to
be
Kings
by
the
grace
of
God
)
do
depriue
thē
of
all
their
authority
,
and
leaue
them
only
a
title
of
dignity
;
for
I
cannot
conceiue
that
the
wo●d
Grace
,
hath
any
more
force
,
or
other
sense
in
the
one
then
in
the
other
,
signifying
in
both
a
particuler
fauour
of
Allmighty
God
,
proceeding
of
his
meere
bounty
,
and
goodnes
,
being
called
gratia
,
quia
gratis
data
,
because
it
is
giuen
freely
without
our
merit
,
or
desert
:
which
grace
,
and
fauour
in
this
case
is
so
much
the
greater
,
by
how
much
the
spirituall
dignity
and
soueraignty
of
S.
Peter
excelleth
the
temporall
dignity
,
or
soueraignty
of
any
temporall
Prince
.
And
therfore
S.
Augustine
sayth
in
this
place
,
that
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
was
preeminent
by
an
excellent
grace
;
as
also
we
haue
seene
before
cap
.
4.
num
.
1.
that
he
sayd
in
like
manner
that
S.
Peter
was
by
nature
one
man
,
by
grace
one
Christian
,
and
abundantiori
gratia
vnus
,
idemq́ue
primus
Apostolus
,
by
a
more
aboundant
grace
,
or
fauour
of
God
,
one
&
he
the
chiefe
Apostle
.
So
as
M.
Collins
his
note
of
the
word
Grace
,
in
this
place
serueth
him
to
no
purpose
,
except
it
be
to
put
the
reader
in
mind
to
pray
to
God
to
send
him
more
grace
,
and
wit
,
hauing
great
want
of
both
,
as
you
haue
seene
sufficiently
already
,
and
shal
see
more
abundantly
hereafter
;
yea
presently
in
two
other
notable
fooleries
of
his
,
ioyned
with
falsity
,
and
fraud
,
in
that
which
followeth
concerning
this
matter
.
16.
In
his
fourth
§
.
of
the
same
chap.
pag
.
133.
he
sayth
that
I
quote
out
of
S.
Augustine
,
that
Peter
did
otherwise
then
truth
required
,
yea
and
in
so
great
a
point
as
Circumcision
was
;
and
that
afterwards
also
I
say
more
plainly
num
.
14.
that
he
erred
.
Wherupon
he
sayth
to
me
thus
.
Would
you
euer
write
thus
if
you
were
in
your
wits
,
striuing
for
Peters
primacy
to
impute
errour
to
him
,
and
errour
in
fayth
,
which
you
know
cannot
be
without
the
grand
perill
of
the
vniuersall
Church
?
So
he
.
But
would
he
write
thus
if
he
had
eyther
wit
,
grace
,
or
his
senses
?
for
where
fyndeth
he
in
my
Adioynder
that
I
impute
error
of
fayth
to
S.
Peter
?
seeing
that
those
words
which
he
himselfe
alleadgeth
,
as
quoted
by
me
out
of
S.
Augustin
(
to
wit
that
Peter
did
otherwise
concerning
Circumcision
then
truth
required
)
do
manifestly
shew
that
the
errour
which
I
acknowledge
in
S.
Peter
was
only
an
errour
in
fact
,
and
not
in
fayth
,
Vitium
,
as
Tertullian
sayth
,
conuersationis
,
non
doctrinae
:
A
fault
of
conuersation
,
and
not
of
doctrine
,
lib
.
de
praescrip
cap
23.
Which
therfore
I
call
afterwards
num
.
16.
pag
.
109.
an
erroneous
act
,
saying
,
That
if
Peter
should
haue
stood
vpon
his
primacy
,
in
defense
of
his
erroneous
act
,
he
should
haue
done
insolently
.
With
what
conscience
then
can
this
man
say
that
I
charge
S.
Peter
with
an
error
in
faith
?
Or
how
can
he
be
thought
to
be
in
his
right
witts
,
who
be
lyeth
me
so
grossely
,
that
the
very
wordes
which
he
himselfe
cyteth
out
of
me
,
may
suffice
to
conuince
him
.
17.
Yet
much
more
fraudulent
is
the
other
foolery
which
followeth
presently
after
n
.
5.
pa.
134.
where
he
sayth
thus
.
I
might
likwise
ask
you
what
manner
of
primacy
you
call
that
,
which
excuseth
not
the
superiour
from
the
lawfull
rebuke
of
the
inferiour
;
but
so
as
if
Peter
should
haue
refused
to
follow
,
and
to
obey
Paul
(
they
are
your
owne
wordes
num
.
16
)
he
should
haue
done
insolently
.
Call
you
that
a
primacy
(
specially
a
Popish
one
)
which
must
be
patient
of
controule
,
lyable
to
the
obedience
euen
of
his
vnderling
,
if
it
will
auoyd
pride
?
Thus
sayth
M.
Coll
.
relying
,
as
he
sayth
,
vpon
my
owne
words
;
or
rather
belying
both
me
and
my
words
,
as
it
will
euidently
appeare
by
that
,
which
I
say
in
that
place
of
my
Adioynder
,
which
he
quoteth
,
to
wit
,
cap
.
3.
num
.
16.
where
I
note
a
great
difference
to
be
obserued
,
betwixt
insolenter
,
&
falsò
,
insolently
,
and
falsely
;
for
a
man
may
(
sa●d
I
)
take
vpon
him
a
true
authority
,
and
speake
of
it
insolently
(
that
is
to
say
,
without
iust
cause
,
or
in
defence
of
some
euill
act
,
and
yet
not
falsely
,
because
it
is
true
that
he
hath
the
authority
that
he
pretendeth
.
And
therfore
I
say
,
that
if
S.
Peter
should
haue
stood
vpon
his
primacy
in
defense
of
his
erroneous
act
,
and
sayd
that
Paul
ought
to
obey
him
therin
,
because
he
was
the
primate
,
and
head
of
the
Apostles
,
he
had
both
sayd
and
done
insolently
,
which
neuerthelesse
in
the
defense
of
a
truth
,
or
vpon
some
other
iust
occasion
he
might
both
say
and
do
without
al
note
of
insolency
,
yea
iustly
,
and
necessarily
,
because
he
had
indeed
the
primacy
,
and
therefore
was
to
be
obeyed
,
and
followed
in
all
good
,
and
iust
actions
.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
.
18.
Wherby
2.
notable
frauds
may
be
discouered
in
M.
Coll
.
the
one
that
he
dissembleth
in
his
answere
this
discourse
of
myne
,
as
if
it
were
nothing
to
the
purpose
,
for
the
explication
of
S.
Cyprians
words
now
in
question
,
which
I
leaue
to
the
iudgement
of
the
indifferent
reader
.
The
other
fraud
is
a
flat
corruption
,
and
falsification
of
my
text
,
which
he
layeth
downe
in
a
different
letter
thus
:
If
S.
Peter
should
haue
refused
to
follow
,
and
to
obey
S.
Paul
,
he
should
haue
done
insolently
;
and
these
wordes
he
sayth
plainly
are
myne
;
wheras
my
wordes
are
these
:
If
S.
Peter
should
haue
stood
vpon
his
primacy
in
defence
of
his
erroneous
act
,
and
sayd
that
Paul
ought
to
follow
,
and
obey
him
therin
because
he
was
the
primate
,
and
head
of
the
Apostles
,
he
should
both
haue
sayd
,
and
done
insolently
.
So
I
;
wherin
thou
mayst
note
,
good
Reader
,
a
notable
difference
:
for
I
doe
not
say
,
that
Peter
should
haue
done
insolently
,
if
he
had
refused
to
obey
Paul
(
for
thereby
I
should
haue
acknowledged
a
superiority
in
S.
Paul
by
the
word
,
obey
,
which
alwayes
presupposeth
a
duty
,
and
subiection
)
but
I
say
,
that
Peter
should
haue
done
insolently
,
if
he
had
sayd
that
Paul
ought
to
obey
him
,
because
he
was
primate
of
the
Apostles
.
19.
Therfore
I
doubt
not
,
good
Reader
,
but
thou
seest
the
difference
,
and
how
notably
he
hath
corrupted
,
and
falsified
my
text
,
to
ground
thereupon
his
foolish
demaund
,
to
wit
,
Whether
I
call
that
a
primacy
,
which
must
be
patient
of
controule
,
lyable
to
the
obedience
euen
of
his
Vnderling
,
if
it
will
auoid
pride
?
To
which
wise
question
,
grounded
vpon
his
owne
corruption
of
my
text
,
I
shall
need
to
say
no
more
,
hauing
discouered
the
weaknes
,
and
falsity
of
his
ground
;
only
I
will
add
,
that
no
primacy
can
exempt
any
man
from
the
fraternall
correction
,
and
admonition
of
his
inferiour
,
when
the
same
is
giuen
necessarily
,
and
with
due
circumstances
:
neyther
is
the
same
primacy
preiudiced
therby
;
for
albeit
the
Superiour
do
follow
the
aduise
of
his
subiect
in
such
case
,
yet
he
cannot
be
sayd
properly
to
obey
him
therin
,
for
that
obedience
,
supposeth
(
as
I
haue
sayd
)
superiority
,
and
authority
to
commaund
,
which
the
subiect
hath
no●
ouer
the
Superiour
,
though
he
may
admonish
,
counsell
,
and
aduise
him
with
more
or
lesse
liberty
,
according
to
the
quality
,
and
importance
of
the
cause
.
In
which
respect
S.
Cyprian
acknowledging
,
not
only
the
reprehension
giuen
to
S.
Peter
by
S.
Paul
,
but
also
S.
Peters
primacy
,
commendeth
S.
Peter
that
he
did
not
alleadge
his
primacy
to
defend
his
erroneous
act
.
20.
And
S.
Augustine
debating
this
matter
with
S.
Hierome
ep
.
19.
commendeth
thē
both
:
S.
Paul
for
his
liberty
,
and
freedom
,
&
S.
Peter
for
his
humility
;
and
albeit
he
hould
that
S.
Peter
was
reprehensible
,
yet
he
sayth
he
left
a
more
rare
,
and
holy
example
to
posterity
(
not
to
disdaine
a
reprehension
of
their
errors
from
their
puisnes
)
then
Saint
Paul
did
by
his
act
,
quo
confidenter
auderent
,
sayth
he
,
etiam
minores
maioribus
pro
defendenda
Euangelica
veritate
,
salua
fraterna
charitate
resistere
:
Wherby
the
inferiors
might
be
moued
to
resist
their
Superiours
,
though
it
were
euen
for
defence
of
the
Ghospell
,
and
without
breach
o●
brotherly
charity
.
Wherby
S.
Aug.
acknowledgeth
that
S.
Paul
was
Minor
,
&
S.
Peter
Maior
,
which
he
must
needes
be
vnderstood
to
haue
sayd
in
respect
of
that
primacy
,
which
you
haue
heard
him
say
before
,
was
preeminent
in
S.
Peter
,
tam
excellenti
gratia
,
with
such
an
excellent
grace
and
fauour
of
almighty
God
.
And
therfore
Saint
Gregory
in
Ezechiel
lib
.
2.
cap
18.
commendeth
greatly
the
humility
of
S.
Peter
,
for
that
being
primus
in
Apostolatus
culmine
,
the
chiefe
in
the
height
of
the
Apostolicall
dignity
,
se
minori
fratri
ad
consensum
dedit
,
he
was
content
to
yeald
to
his
yonger
,
or
inferiour
brother
;
yea
and
so
notorious
was
this
primacy
of
S.
Peter
to
the
very
Paymins
that
Porphirius
the
Philosopher
did
blasphemously
taxe
S.
Paul
with
procacity
or
sausines
,
quòd
Apostolorum
principem
ausus
est
reprehendere
,
that
he
durst
be
so
bould
to
reprehend
Peter
the
prince
of
the
Apostles
,
as
S
Hierome
testifyeth
epist.
89.
And
to
conclude
this
point
,
this
is
most
euident
,
euen
in
that
place
of
S.
Cyprian
,
which
is
now
in
question
,
and
was
vrged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
agaynst
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
as
lamely
quoted
by
him
.
21.
For
wheras
my
Lord
inferred
vpon
S.
Cyprians
words
,
that
if
S.
Peter
had
sayd
,
he
had
the
primacy
,
he
had
insolently
challenged
something
to
himselfe
(
that
is
to
say
more
then
was
due
vnto
him
)
&
that
therefore
the
Cardinall
suppressed
warily
that
part
of
the
text
(
because
it
made
little
for
the
primacy
)
the
contrary
may
be
cleerly
inferred
thereon
,
if
the
wordes
of
Saint
Cyprian
be
well
noted
,
who
sayth
that
Saint
Peter
,
when
he
was
reprehended
by
Saint
Paul
,
did
not
arrogantly
say
that
he
had
the
primacy
,
or
that
he
ought
to
be
obeyed
by
those
that
were
later
Apostles
then
he
;
wherin
two
preheminences
are
noted
in
S.
Peter
,
the
one
that
he
was
primate
of
the
Apostles
;
and
the
other
that
he
was
the
elder
Apostle
;
of
which
two
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
and
M.
Collins
will
not
deny
(
I
am
sure
)
the
later
to
haue
been
truly
in
S.
Peter
(
to
wit
he
was
the
elder
Apostle
)
how
then
can
they
deny
that
he
had
the
●ther
as
truly
,
seeing
S.
Cyprian
speaketh
of
them
both
a
lik●
,
as
who
would
say
,
that
albeit
S.
Peter
was
both
Primate
of
the
Apostles
,
and
called
to
the
Apostleship
long
before
S.
Paul
,
yet
he
would
not
in
defence
of
his
errour
insolently
challenge
Obedience
of
S.
Paul
in
respect
of
the
one
,
or
of
the
other
.
22.
Therfore
wheras
my
Lord
of
Winchester
groundeth
his
argument
agaynst
the
primacy
vpon
the
words
insolently
,
and
arrogantly
(
as
if
S.
Cyprian
should
meane
that
S.
Peter
should
haue
done
insolently
to
challenge
a
primacy
,
because
he
had
none
,
)
I
would
gladly
know
why
S.
Cyprian
should
make
mention
of
S.
Peters
Primacy
,
aswell
as
of
his
●ldership
,
if
he
had
not
the
one
,
aswell
as
the
other
;
to
which
purpose
it
is
to
be
obserued
,
that
as
the
words
insolently
,
and
arrogantly
do
not
derogate
any
thing
from
the
truth
,
and
realty
of
his
Eldership
,
no
more
can
they
derogate
from
the
truth
,
and
realty
of
h●s
primacy
,
according
to
the
meaning
of
S.
Cyprian
,
who
as
I
haue
sayd
,
speaking
of
bot●
these
tytles
,
and
preheminences
alike
,
only
signifyeth
,
that
it
had
been
insolency
,
or
a●rogancy
in
him
to
haue
stood
vpon
thē
in
defence
of
his
errour
,
or
to
haue
exacted
obedience
of
S.
Paul
in
regard
therof
,
albeit
he
might
in
a
iust
cause
haue
challenged
them
,
without
any
note
of
insolency
,
or
arrogancy
,
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
.
23.
This
then
being
the
cleare
sense
,
and
meaning
of
S.
Cyprian
,
it
is
euident
;
first
,
that
this
place
of
S.
Cyprian
(
togeather
with
the
exposition
of
S.
Augustin
which
you
haue
heard
before
)
doth
notably
confirme
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
;
secondly
,
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
taxed
the
Cardinall
with
the
lame
quotation
of
it
,
without
iust
cause
,
seeing
it
made
much
for
the
Cardinall
and
agaynst
my
Lord
of
Winchester
;
thirdly
,
that
S.
Pauls
reprehension
of
S.
Peter
did
nothing
preiudice
the
primacy
of
S.
Peter
;
which
primacy
you
see
is
acknowledged
by
these
two
Fathers
,
euen
whiles
they
treate
of
his
errour
,
&
of
S.
Pauls
reprehension
thereof
;
fourthly
,
that
M.
Collins
had
no
reason
in
the
world
to
charge
me
with
the
fraudulent
concealing
of
this
errour
of
S.
Peter
;
seeing
that
he
saw
in
my
Adioynder
,
that
I
made
vse
of
it
there
to
confirme
S.
Peters
primacy
in
such
sort
,
that
he
had
beene
forced
in
the
answere
therof
to
dissemble
,
wrest
,
falsify
and
corrupt
my
text
,
besides
diuers
notable
fooleryes
,
which
he
hath
committed
by
the
way
,
as
I
haue
sufficiently
shewed
;
so
hard
,
or
rather
impossible
it
is
to
mayntayne
one
errour
,
without
committing
many
.
What
then
hath
the
silly
fellow
gayned
by
the
ample
&
large
quotation
of
S.
Austin
,
wherin
he
glorieth
oft
,
&
triumpheth
exceedingly
,
although
it
hath
serued
him
(
as
you
see
)
to
no
other
purpose
then
to
discouer
his
folly
,
&
the
weakenesse
of
his
cause
?
24.
Neuerthelesse
the
poore
man
knoweth
not
,
when
to
make
an
end
of
his
bab●ing
,
but
wil
needes
go
on
stil
with
S.
Aug.
●is
discourse
,
and
his
Comment
thereon
,
wherein
if
I
would
follow
him
,
&
examine
●he
weight
,
and
worth
of
his
glosse
,
&
his
●rguments
,
as
hitherto
I
haue
done
,
I
should
●yre
thee
,
good
Reader
,
no
lesse
then
my selfe
with
his
absurdityes
&
malicious
abuse
,
as
well
of
S.
Augustine
and
other
auncient
Fa●hers
,
as
of
the
Iesuits
,
agaynst
whome
he
●pitteth
euery
where
his
venime
,
and
spite
●boundantly
,
belying
them
,
and
their
doctrine
without
all
respect
of
conscience
,
or
●hame
;
wherof
I
may
perhapps
haue
some
better
oportunity
to
speake
hereafter
,
and
●herfore
hauing
now
for
the
present
answered
as
much
as
he
hath
sayd
of
importance
,
to
the
places
which
I
alleadged
out
of
S.
Augustine
,
I
will
passe
to
another
place
cyted
al●o
by
m●
Lord
of
Winchester
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
to
the
same
purpose
;
which
shal
be
debated
in
the
next
Chapter
.
M.
Collins
his
answere
to
2.
places
,
the
one
of
S
Ambrose
,
and
the
other
of
S.
Leo
,
is
proued
to
be
exceeding
fraudulent
:
and
by
the
way
many
fooleries
,
and
ridiculous
absurdityes
are
discouered
therin
.
Finally
M.
Casaubon
(
to
whome
M.
Collins
remitteth
his
Aduersary
)
is
found
to
be
very
defectiue
,
and
absurd
;
iniurious
to
Car●inall
Bellarmine
,
and
opposite
to
M.
Collins
.
CHAP.
VI
.
WE
haue
seene
how
wel
M.
Collins
hath
behaued
himselfe
in
answere
of
those
places
,
which
I
alleadged
out
of
S.
Aug.
concerning
the
commission
of
chiefe
pastour
giuen
by
our
Sauiour
to
S.
Peter
,
when
he
said
vnto
him
pasce
oues
meas
;
and
,
that
there
hath
passed
nothing
hitherto
,
wherin
he
hath
not
committed
some
notable
fraude
,
or
folly
.
Now
there
remayne
yet
to
be
debated
touching
the
same
point
,
2.
places
of
S.
Ambrose
,
the
one
alleadged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
(
which
I
charged
his
Lord
P.
to
haue
alleadged
corruptly
)
and
the
other
quoted
by
me
to
iustify
my
exposition
of
the
former
.
And
I
must
needs
say
that
M.
Collins
hath
had
much
better
lucke
in
the
former
,
then
in
the
later
;
for
I
do
very
willingly
acknowledge
that
he
hath
fully
cleared
his
LP
.
of
the
imputation
of
corruption
,
wherwith
I
charged
him
,
seeing
he
hath
produced
diuers
printes
,
which
haue
the
place
,
as
my
Lord
alleaged
it
,
of
which
printes
if
I
had
found
but
any
one
,
when
I
wrote
my
Adioynder
,
I
would
not
haue
charged
his
LP
.
as
I
did
,
following
certayne
copies
,
which
I
had
then
agreeing
with
my
allegation
,
as
M.
Collins
himselfe
confesseth
pag
.
45.
2.
Neuertheles
I
would
not
haue
thee
,
good
reader
,
to
thinke
that
the
place
,
as
his
LP
.
hath
it
,
doth
proue
his
intention
,
or
make
any
thing
against
vs
,
or
yet
that
it
needeth
any
other
answere
then
that
which
I
gaue
him
in
my
Adioynder
;
where
the
question
being
,
whether
S.
Peter
was
supreme
pastour
of
the
whole
Church
,
my
Lord
of
Winchester
produced
2.
places
for
the
negatiue
,
the
one
out
of
S.
Austine
de
agone
Christiano
(
which
you
haue
heard
allready
debated
)
and
the
other
out
of
S.
Ambrose
de
dignit
.
Sacerd
.
cap
.
2
in
these
words
.
Eas
oues
non
solum
beatus
suscepit
Petrus
,
sed
&
nobiscum
eas
suscepit
,
&
nos
cum
illo
accepimus
omnes
,
that
is
to
say
:
Those
sheepe
not
onely
the
blessed
Peter
receiued
,
but
allso
he
receiued
them
with
vs
and
we
al
receiued
them
with
him
:
wherupon
my
Lord
of
Winchester
saith
in
his
answere
to
Cardinall
Bellarmines
Apology
pag
.
16.
nempe
dictum
est
illi
.
Pasce
&c.
for
it
was
sayd
to
him
,
feede
as
well
in
the
person
of
others
,
as
in
his
owne
.
Wherby
my
Lord
giueth
to
vnderstand
that
S.
Peter
had
not
(
according
S.
Ambrose
)
any
more
authority
,
or
power
,
giuen
him
by
our
Sauiour
(
when
he
said
vnto
him
pasce
oues
meas
)
then
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
had
,
or
then
all
other
Pastours
in
the
Church
haue
,
seeing
they
all
receiued
their
pastorall
authority
in
him
,
and
with
him
.
3.
To
this
I
answered
first
pag
.
6.
num
.
6.
that
my
Lord
had
corrupted
the
text
of
S
Ambrose
,
adding
th●se
words
therto
:
Et
nobiscum
eas
suscepit
,
and
he
receiued
the
same
sheepe
with
vs
:
which
words
were
not
in
the
copies
which
I
followed
;
of
which
imputation
I
do
now
acknowledge
his
L
P.
to
be
cleare
.
Secondly
I
answered
pag
.
7.
num
.
7.
that
the
doctrine
of
S.
Ambrose
is
very
conforme
to
S.
Augustins
in
that
point
,
signifying
nothing
els
,
but
that
all
the
pastors
of
Gods
Church
receiued
theyr
pastorall
authority
ouer
their
flockes
with
S.
Peter
,
because
he
being
the
head
of
the
church
represented
the
person
of
the
whole
church
,
and
therfore
did
not
receiue
that
pastorall
authority
for
himself
alone
,
but
also
for
the
church
,
and
all
the
pastors
thereof
.
4.
And
to
proue
that
S.
Ambrose
had
no
other
meaning
,
but
this
,
and
no
intent
at
all
to
deny
therby
the
supreme
authority
of
S.
Peter
,
or
the
different
degrees
of
Pastorall
authority
in
the
Church
,
I
produced
an
euident
place
out
of
S.
Ambrose
in
the
10.
book
of
his
commentary
vpon
S.
Luks
Ghospell
cap
.
24.
where
hauing
said
that
our
Sauiour
asked
Peter
thrice
,
whether
he
loued
him
(
not
to
learne
,
sayth
he
,
any
thing
of
him
,
but
to
teach
him
,
whome
he
meant
to
leaue
vs
,
veluti
amoris
sui
vicarium
,
as
the
vicar
of
his
loue
)
he
alleadgeth
our
Sauiours
wordes
to
S.
Peter
,
Simon
the
sonne
of
Iohn
doest
thou
loue
me
&c.
pasce
agnos
meos
:
Feede
my
Lambes
.
And
then
shortly
after
he
inferreth
therupon
thus
.
Et
ideo
quia
solus
profitetur
ex
omnibus
,
omnibus
antefertur
.
And
therfore
because
he
alone
of
all
the
rest
professed
his
loue
,
he
is
preferred
before
them
all
.
And
after
a
while
he
concludeth
,
that
our
Lord
asked
him
the
third
tyme
whether
he
loued
him
:
Et
iam
,
sayth
he
,
non
agnos
vt
primò
q●odam
lacte
pascendos
&c.
and
now
Peter
is
commaunded
not
to
feede
Lambes
with
a
certayne
milke
,
as
the
first
tyme
,
nor
to
feede
the
little
sheepe
,
as
the
second
tyme
;
sed
oues
pascere
tubetur
,
perfectiores
vt
perfectior
gubernaret
;
he
is
commaunded
to
seede
the
sheepe
,
that
he
being
more
perfect
might
gouerne
the
more
perfect
.
5.
Thus
farre
I
alleadged
S.
Ambrose
in
my
Adioynder
,
to
explicate
,
and
answere
the
place
alleadged
my
L.
of
Winchester
out
of
him
,
&
I
doubt
not
but
it
is
euident
by
S.
Ambrose
his
owne
exposition
of
the
words
pasce
oues
meas
,
that
when
he
sayd
that
all
Pastours
receyued
Christs
sheepe
togeather
with
S.
Peter
,
he
had
no
meaning
to
impugne
,
or
deny
therby
S.
Peters
primacy
(
which
you
see
he
expresly
affirmeth
,
and
teacheth
heer
)
but
rather
to
confirme
it
according
to
S.
Augustines
doctrine
,
and
explication
;
who
vsing
the
same
manner
of
speach
that
Saint
Ambrose
doth
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
doth
also
yield
the
reason
thereof
,
to
wit
,
that
for
as
much
as
S.
Peter
represented
the
Church
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
,
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
,
therfore
the
Apostles
,
and
all
other
Pastours
receiued
their
pastorall
authority
in
him
,
and
with
him
.
6.
But
now
M.
Collins
taketh
hold
of
my
owne
words
,
and
vrgeth
them
against
me
,
because
I
said
pag
.
7.
num
.
7.
that
the
words
of
S.
Ambrose
,
to
wit
,
nobiscum
eas
suscepit
(
which
I
haue
charged
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
to
haue
added
to
the
text
)
do
inforce
a
greater
equality
betwixt
S.
Peter
,
and
other
pastors
,
then
euer
S.
Ambrose
did
imagine
;
but
my
meaning
was
,
that
to
the
ignorant
reader
it
would
seeme
so
,
&
therfore
I
said
afterwards
pag
.
9.
lin
.
13.
that
these
words
make
a
greater
shew
of
parity
,
or
equality
.
But
if
they
be
well
considered
,
the
sense
is
all
one
,
be
the
words
either
as
he
,
or
I
alleadged
them
;
for
as
I
had
them
,
they
signify
,
that
we
receaued
the
sheepe
with
Peter
;
and
as
his
LP
.
alleadged
them
,
they
signify
that
S.
Peter
receiued
thē
with
vs
,
and
wee
with
him
,
which
is
in
effect
all
one
;
for
if
we
receiued
them
with
him
,
then
he
receiued
them
with
vs
;
and
if
he
with
vs
,
then
wee
with
him
:
and
this
,
as
I
haue
said
,
is
true
in
respect
of
his
primacy
,
wherby
he
represented
al
the
pastors
of
the
church
to
the
worlds
end
,
as
I
haue
signified
amply
before
cap
.
2.
num
.
7.
by
the
similitud
of
a
first
Monarch
,
or
king
,
of
whom
it
may
truely
be
said
,
that
all
his
successors
,
&
the
magistrates
subordinate
to
him
,
and
them
,
receiued
their
authority
with
him
,
and
he
with
them
.
Thus
much
concerning
the
place
alleadged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
.
7.
Let
vs
now
see
what
M.
Collins
sayth
to
the
place
of
S.
Ambrose
which
I
produced
to
interprete
the
other
,
in
which
place
S.
Peters
supreme
pastorall
dignity
is
clearly
acknowledged
,
and
taught
by
that
ancient
,
and
learned
Father
.
The
place
is
laid
downe
by
me
a
litle
before
as
I
alleadged
it
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
7.
num
.
8.
where
I
also
added
num
.
9.
three
thinges
to
be
noted
therein
.
First
that
he
called
S.
Peter
,
Vicarium
amoris
Christi
,
the
Vicar
or
substitute
of
Christes
loue
.
The
second
that
he
said
of
him
,
quia
solus
ex
omnibus
profitetur
,
omnibus
antefertur
.
The
third
,
that
by
the
distinction
which
he
made
of
lambes
,
litle
sheepe
,
&
sheepe
(
recommended
to
the
pastorall
care
of
S.
Peter
)
he
giueth
to
vnderstand
that
al
sortes
of
Christians
(
euen
the
most
holy
,
learned
,
and
perfect
,
yea
the
Apostles
themselues
)
were
committed
to
his
charge
,
and
gouernement
,
and
that
therfore
S.
Ambrose
concluded
thus
,
oues
pascere
iubetur
,
perfectiores
vt
perfectior
gubernaret
.
8.
Thus
said
I
in
effect
,
but
somwhat
more
amply
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
8.
num
9.
where
you
see
plainly
,
that
S.
Ambrose
doth
in
his
conclusion
expound
pascere
by
gubernare
,
which
I
desire
thee
good
Reader
,
to
note
,
that
thou
mayst
the
better
discouer
M.
Collins
his
notable
coggery
,
who
vndertaking
to
answere
to
this
place
,
euen
by
piece-meale
(
as
I
may
say
)
sayth
somwhat
to
the
rest
,
but
dissembleth
that
conclusion
:
and
to
the
end
he
may
the
better
do
it
,
he
doth
not
lay
downe
the
whole
place
,
neither
yet
my
text
,
but
toucheth
only
some
such
partes
therof
,
as
he
supposeth
he
may
best
shift
off
,
with
some
colourable
answere
.
First
he
layeth
hold
vpon
the
words
,
Quia
s●lus
profitetur
,
omnibus
antefertur
,
saying
pag
.
48.
anteferri
is
one
thing
,
praeponi
another
;
the
later
may
be
of
authority
,
the
first
of
any
excellency
;
so
so
as
he
will
not
graunt
that
S.
Ambrose
acknowledged
any
authority
in
S.
Peter
more
then
in
others
by
the
word
anteferri
,
but
only
a
kind
of
excellency
,
which
he
sayth
a
few
lines
before
pag
47.
lin
.
antepenult
.
is
that
primatus
praestantiae
,
by
the
which
my
L.
of
Winchester
foyled
my
friuolous
obiection
euen
before
it
was
batched
.
And
he
asketh
me
by
the
way
,
whether
he
doth
not
seeme
to
me
too
grammaticall
?
Wherto
I
answere
that
truly
I
thinke
he
hath
more
Grammer
,
then
wit
to
vse
it
well
,
and
yet
no
more
grammer
neither
,
then
he
hath
need
of
,
as
may
appeare
by
his
correction
of
my
translation
of
obstrepere
,
and
repraesentare
in
his
preface
;
&
what
good
vse
he
maketh
of
his
skill
in
grammer
,
yea
and
of
this
difference
which
he
maketh
heere
betwixt
anteferri
,
and
praeponi
thou
shalt
see
,
good
reader
,
heerafter
in
his
answere
to
a
like
place
of
S.
Leo
,
wherin
praeponi
is
vsed
in
the
very
same
sense
,
which
heere
he
signifieth
,
and
yet
it
will
not
suffice
to
perswade
him
,
that
S.
Peter
had
any
authority
ouer
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
;
as
shall
appeare
after
in
this
chapter
num
.
36.
9.
But
to
proceed
,
he
telleth
me
,
that
anteferri
is
to
be
esteemed
,
or
graced
before
another
;
and
to
shew
his
copie
and
plenty
of
Latin
,
he
sayeth
it
is
like
anteire
,
antecellere
;
and
afterwards
giueth
3.
instances
of
S.
Peter
excellencies
.
The
first
,
that
he
was
bid
to
feede
,
as
one
,
in
whose
person
others
were
exhorted
:
&
the
Church
represented
The
second
,
that
he
was
promised
martyrdome
in
these
words
,
cùm
senueris
.
And
the
third
,
that
he
had
a
priority
like
charity
amongst
other
vertues
,
which
is
,
sayth
he
,
to
be
principall
indeed
,
but
not
to
rule
;
and
addeth
for
the
proofe
therof
,
that
the
Vertues
of
the
prosequutiue
part
,
rule
not
the
intellectuall
,
but
are
ruled
rather
.
So
he
:
and
now
do
you
not
se
how
this
pedant
,
to
exclude
S.
Peter
from
all
authority
,
and
rule
,
doth
out
of
his
Grammer
rules
labour
to
ouerrule
,
and
controlle
S.
Ambrose
,
contradicting
flatly
his
exposition
of
our
Sauiours
words
?
which
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
he
vnderstandeth
clearly
of
rule
,
&
gouerment
,
saying
:
oues
pascere
iubetur
,
perfectiores
vt
perfectior
gubernaret
:
that
is
to
say
,
S.
Peter
is
commaunded
to
feed
the
shepe
,
to
the
end
that
he
being
more
perfect
,
might
rule
,
or
gouerne
the
more
perfect
.
Wherby
he
signifieth
plainly
what
he
meaneth
by
anteferri
,
to
wit
,
that
S.
Peter
was
preferred
before
the
rest
in
authority
,
rule
,
and
gouernment
:
had
not
this
fellow
reason
,
thinke
you
,
to
nippe
off
,
or
at
least
to
dissemble
those
words
of
S.
Ambrose
to
make
good
his
Grammaticall
conceit
?
10.
The
like
may
also
be
said
of
his
discourse
,
which
followeth
num
.
33.
concerning
Vicarium
amoris
,
in
S.
Ambrose
,
wherupon
he
maketh
an
ample
comment
,
ouer
long
,
and
idle
to
be
set
downe
heere
,
but
the
summe
,
and
scope
of
all
is
,
to
proue
by
diuers
examples
,
that
the
title
of
Vicari●s
Christi
hath
been
applyed
to
diuers
other
as
well
as
to
S.
Peter
,
which
no
man
,
I
think
will
deny
;
neither
would
I
haue
vrged
that
title
if
it
had
beene
alone
without
these
circumstances
,
&
the
subsequent
discourse
,
&
especially
the
conclusion
which
fortifieth
the
rest
,
and
expresseth
S.
Ambrose
his
meaning
in
all
the
premisses
.
11.
But
now
M.
Collins
goeth
on
with
his
extrauagant
discourse
to
impugne
an
obseruation
which
I
make
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
and
he
out
of
his
Doctorall
grauity
calleth
it
a
graue
obseruation
,
and
me
a
Noddy
for
my
paines
.
My
words
are
thes●
pag
.
8.
num
.
9.
Wheras
S.
Ambrose
obserueth
3.
degrees
of
Christians
,
to
wit
lambes
,
little
sheepe
,
and
sheepe
,
all
commended
to
the
care
of
S.
Peter
,
he
giueth
to
vnderstand
,
that
all
sortes
of
Christians
were
committed
to
his
charge
and
gouernement
,
and
not
the
weake
onely
,
but
the
most
holy
also
,
learned
,
and
perfect
,
yea
euen
the
Apostles
themselus
,
and
therfore
he
saith
,
ones
pascere
iubetur
vt
perfectiores
persectior
gubernaret
.
Thus
said
I
,
which
M.
Collins
doth
curtall
thus
pag
.
50.
num
.
34.
There
is
yet
behind
,
sayth
he
,
an
other
graue
obseruation
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
that
Peter
is
not
bid
to
feede
the
lambs
,
or
little
sheep
,
but
oues
ipsas
,
that
is
the
more
perfect
.
So
he
,
dissembling
that
,
which
most
importeth
t●uching
gouernment
,
though
expresly
set
down
by
S.
Ambr.
&
related
by
me
,
to
wit
,
vt
perfectiores
persectior
gubernaret
;
which
words
were
too
hoat
for
M.
Collins
to
touch
,
because
they
signify
clearly
,
that
S.
Peter
was
commanded
to
feede
the
sheep
(
that
is
to
say
the
more
perfect
)
that
he
might
gouerne
them
,
which
he
in
his
glosse
vpon
anteferri
denyeth
to
be
meant
by
S.
Ambrose
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
acknowledging
onely
a
certaine
priority
to
be
allowed
by
S.
Ambrose
to
S.
Peter
,
such
a
one
as
Charity
hath
amongst
the
vertues
,
that
is
to
say
to
be
principall
,
but
not
to
rule
;
which
word
rule
,
he
also
putteth
in
a
different
letter
,
to
be
the
better
noted
,
as
no
way
intended
by
S.
Ambrose
.
12.
But
if
gubernare
be
to
gouerne
,
and
to
gouerne
be
to
rule
,
S.
Ambrose
affirmeth
it
,
and
teacheth
it
expressly
,
and
M.
Collins
doth
not
only
fraudulently
conceale
,
&
dissemble
it
,
but
also
if
I
may
be
so
bould
to
say
it
to
so
graue
a
Doctor
)
belyeth
S.
Ambrose
,
denying
flattly
his
sense
and
meaning
;
and
yet
forsooth
to
giue
some
colour
to
this
fraud
of
his
,
he
insinuateth
that
the
text
of
S.
Ambrose
should
be
read
otherwise
,
saying
.
I
might
send
this
Noddy
to
M.
Casaubons
late
monument
,
or
rather
mirrour
of
Excercitations
to
Baronius
his
Annales
to
be
informed
of
S.
Ambrose
his
reading
this
text
,
and
the
vprightnes
of
it
.
So
he
;
without
declaring
any
particuler
therof
,
being
surprised
,
as
it
seemeth
with
such
a
suddaine
pange
of
sorrow
for
the
death
of
M.
Casaubon
,
that
he
abruptly
crieth
out
.
Wo
is
me
,
for
that
diuine
man
M.
Casaubon
,
that
speaking
of
his
monument
,
I
should
speake
ambiguously
of
his
tombe
,
or
of
his
writings
;
but
what
that
hath
deuoured
,
these
shall
eternize
,
and
now
is
no
ty●e
to
bewaile
our
losse
.
13.
Thus
doth
kind
M.
Collins
ease
,
&
disburden
his
tender
hart
of
some
part
of
his
sorrow
conceaued
for
the
lamentable
lo●se
of
diuine
M.
Casaubon
,
which
truely
made
me
the
more
willing
to
enquire
after
that
worthy
monument
,
&
mirrour
of
exercitations
,
which
I
had
neuer
seene
,
nor
I
thinke
should
euer
haue
cared
to
see
,
had
it
not
beene
by
this
occasion
;
and
hauing
at
last
got
a
sight
of
it
,
I
turned
to
the
place
cyted
by
M.
Collins
,
and
found
the
diuine
man
scant
honest
in
his
allegations
,
and
in●erpretations
of
the
Fathers
,
and
other
authors
euen
in
that
Exercitation
,
and
chapter
,
which
M.
Collins
citeth
,
viz.
Exercit
.
16.
cap
.
133.
where
he
digresseth
from
Cardinall
Baronius
,
to
haue
a
fling
at
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
for
his
exposition
of
pasce
oues
meas
,
wherin
the
Cardinall
followeth
S.
Ambrose
in
this
very
place
now
in
question
.
14.
And
albeit
he
is
so
saucy
with
S.
Ambrose
,
as
to
censure
him
for
vsing
ouiculas
insteed
of
agnos
,
and
making
a
difference
betweene
diligo
,
and
amo
:
yet
I
thinke
good
to
omit
it
for
breuityes
sake
,
as
not
importing
any
way
the
matter
in
question
betwixt
M.
Collins
and
me
,
which
consisteth
not
in
the
different
sense
,
or
reading
of
diligo
or
amo
,
or
yet
of
euiculae
,
or
agni
,
but
in
the
true
sense
of
pasce
oues
meas
,
whether
the
same
doth
include
in
it
a
primacy
of
gouernement
,
or
no
;
about
which
words
(
I
meane
the
true
reading
of
them
in
S.
Ambrose
)
M.
Casaubon
maketh
no
question
at
all
;
and
therefore
M.
Collins
sheweth
himselfe
,
I
wil
not
say
a
Noddy
(
as
he
tearmeth
me
)
but
a
very
inconsiderate
Doctor
to
send
me
to
him
to
be
informed
of
the
vprightnesse
of
S.
Ambrose
his
text
,
for
matters
that
do
not
concerne
our
present
question
:
besides
that
I
make
no
doubt
but
that
the
text
of
S.
Ambrose
wil
be
held
for
vpright
,
and
currant
inough
throughout
the
Christian
world
,
notwithstanding
the
idle
censure
of
these
two
pedanticall
Grammarians
.
15.
Neuertheles
I
cannot
omit
to
obserue
somewhat
in
M.
Casaubon
,
as
well
to
shew
his
honesty
,
as
for
the
better
instruction
of
M.
Collins
,
whereby
I
hope
,
it
will
appeare
who
is
the
Noddy
,
either
I
,
whome
he
sent
to
M.
Casaubon
,
or
he
for
sending
me
to
him
.
Thou
shalt
vnderstand
therefore
,
good
Reader
,
that
Maister
Casaubons
chiefe
quarrel
against
Cardinall
Bellarmine
in
that
chapter
,
is
about
the
Cardinals
explication
of
those
words
,
pasce
oues
meas
,
which
he
explicated
thus
,
id
est
regio
more
impera
(
as
M.
Casaubon
sayth
)
who
therforce
wisheth
to
be
noted
in
the
Greeke
text
of
the
Euangelist
,
that
in
the
3.
tymes
that
our
Sauiour
sayd
pasce
,
according
to
our
latin
translation
,
the
Greeke
hath
twise
{αβγδ}
,
and
but
once
{αβγδ}
,
and
neuerthelesse
,
sayth
he
,
Cardinall
Bellarmin
neglecteth
wholy
the
word
{αβγδ}
,
and
vrgeth
mightily
the
word
{αβγδ}
,
ratio
est
,
sayth
M.
Casaubon
,
quia
vt
Theophilactus
obseruat
,
{αβγδ}
curam
mitiorem
significat
;
{αβγδ}
acrioris
imperij
videtur
habere
significationem
.
The
reason
is
,
because
,
as
Theophilact
obserueth
,
the
word
{αβγδ}
doth
signify
a
more
mild
care
,
and
{αβγδ}
a
more
seuere
commaund
,
or
gouernement
.
And
to
this
M.
Casaubon
addeth
the
Greek
text
of
Theophilact
thus
:
{αβγδ}
.
16.
Heerein
M.
Collins
may
note
that
according
to
Theophilact
,
the
Greeke
of
pasce
in
this
place
(
be
it
{αβγδ}
,
or
{αβγδ}
)
doth
include
authority
,
&
gouernment
,
though
the
one
signify
a
more
mild
gouernement
then
the
other
.
This
is
euident
in
the
word
{αβγδ}
,
which
doth
signify
in
this
place
Imperium
,
and
is
applyed
to
both
the
verbes
{αβγδ}
&
{αβγδ}
,
though
with
different
adiectiues
,
the
one
signifying
more
mild
,
&
the
other
more
seuere
;
so
as
the
true
sense
of
the
greek
in
Theophilact
is
this
,
{αβγδ}
signify●th
a
more
seuere
gouernement
,
and
{αβγδ}
a
more
mild
gouernement
.
This
I
note
by
the
way
for
the
instruction
of
M.
D.
Collins
,
to
the
end
he
may
learne
,
not
only
by
the
place
of
S.
Ambrose
,
which
is
now
in
question
,
but
also
by
this
of
Theophilact
alleadged
by
his
diuine
M.
Casaubon
,
that
pasce
,
in
the
words
pasce
oues
meas
doth
signify
to
gouerne
;
of
which
point
,
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
say
somewhat
more
to
M.
Collins
heereafter
num
.
25.
26.
27.
&
28.
by
the
testimony
of
M.
Casaubon
himselfe
.
17.
In
the
meane
tyme
,
for
as
much
as
M.
Casaubone
,
to
whome
M.
Collins
sendeth
me
,
remitteth
me
,
&
others
his
Readers
to
Theophilact
(
saying
vide
Theophilactum
)
concerning
the
vnderstanding
of
the
word
pasce
,
according
to
the
greek
Fathers
(
who
he
sayth
do
note
that
Christ
did
admonish
the
Apostles
by
the
two
wordes
{αβγδ}
and
{αβγδ}
,
that
they
should
haue
care
as
well
of
the
meane
and
litle
sheep
,
as
of
the
great
,
and
that
they
should
so
behaue
themselues
towards
the
one
,
&
the
other
,
as
their
need
should
require
)
for
this
cause
,
I
say
,
I
haue
taken
the
paynes
to
see
Theophilact
,
as
M.
Casaubon
hath
willed
me
;
and
I
find
euen
in
that
place
,
wherto
he
remitteth
me
somwhat
more
then
he
mentioneth
,
yea
much
more
then
he
and
his
disciple
M.
Collins
wil
well
disgest
;
for
thus
he
sayth
in
cap
.
21.
Ioan
.
{αβγδ}
&c.
When
dinner
was
ended
,
Christ
recommended
to
Peter
the
gouernment
of
the
sheep
of
all
the
world
,
and
he
did
not
deliuer
it
to
any
other
,
but
to
him
.
Thus
sayth
Theophilact
,
not
denying
that
this
pastoral
commission
was
giuen
to
the
rest
of
the
Apostls
,
and
to
the
whole
Church
;
but
that
it
was
not
giuen
principally
,
and
immediatly
to
any
,
but
to
him
,
who
being
the
supreme
Pastour
,
and
gouernour
of
the
Church
,
receaued
that
commission
not
only
for
himselfe
,
but
also
for
the
Apostles
,
and
for
the
whole
Church
bearing
the
person
therof
,
propter
primatum
quem
in
discipulis
habuit
,
for
the
primacy
which
he
had
amongst
the
disciples
,
as
hath
been
sufficiently
proued
heertofore
out
of
S.
Augustine
.
18.
To
the
same
purpose
Theophilact
sayth
also
afterwards
:
{αβγδ}
&c
.
he
gaue
into
the
hands
of
Peter
the
prefectship
of
all
the
faythfull
;
for
although
Iames
receiued
the
chaire
,
and
throne
of
Hierusalem
,
yet
Peter
receaued
the
chayre
,
and
throne
of
the
whole
world
.
So
he
:
giuing
to
vnderstand
that
neither
Iames
,
nor
any
of
the
Apostles
had
the
supreme
charge
and
gouernement
of
all
the
faythfull
,
as
Peter
had
;
and
that
as
Iames
was
truly
the
pastour
,
and
particuler
gouernour
of
the
Church
of
Hierusalem
;
so
Peter
was
truly
the
chiefe
Pastour
and
Gouernour
of
the
whole
Church
.
In
like
manner
afterwards
Theophilact
hauing
demaunded
why
the
Euangelist
S.
Iohn
doth
make
mention
of
his
owne
layning
on
Christs
breast
,
and
of
the
question
which
he
asked
of
our
Sauiour
,
who
should
betray
him
;
sayth
thus
:
{αβγδ}
&c
.
It
was
not
don
without
mystery
,
or
by
chance
,
to
the
end
he
might
shew
Peters
liberty
,
or
freedome
of
speach
after
his
deniall
;
for
he
that
durst
not
before
the
crosse
(
or
passion
)
aske
concerning
the
traytor
,
but
committed
the
question
to
another
,
he
the
selfe
same
receaueth
the
prefectship
of
all
;
and
not
only
those
things
which
belonged
to
him
were
not
committed
to
any
other
,
but
also
he
asketh
for
the
best
beloued
disciple
,
and
is
made
a
mediator
for
him
to
their
Lord
.
19.
Thus
farre
Theophilact
;
imitating
therin
S.
Chrysostome
,
who
in
his
homily
vpon
the
same
ghospell
,
and
words
of
our
Sauiour
hath
the
very
same
in
effect
,
expounding
pasce
oues
meas
,
by
suscipe
curam
fratrum
tuorum
,
take
the
charge
of
thy
brethren
,
that
is
to
say
,
of
the
Apostles
,
as
it
appeareth
euidently
by
the
circumstances
in
S.
Chrysostome
,
who
noteth
as
Theophilact
doth
,
that
albeyt
S.
Peter
durst
not
presume
at
Christes
last
supper
to
aske
him
,
who
was
he
that
should
betray
him
,
yet
,
Commissa
sibi
fratrum
cura
,
sayth
he
,
vicem
suam
alteri
non
mandat
,
sed
ipse
magistrum
interrogat
:
The
charge
of
his
brethren
being
committed
vnto
him
he
doth
not
delegate
any
other
,
but
asketh
their
maister
himselfe
.
So
sayth
S.
Chrysostome
,
giuing
plainly
to
vnderstand
that
S.
Peter
hauing
by
the
pastorall
commission
receaued
the
charge
,
and
gouernement
of
his
brethren
the
Apostles
,
was
more
confident
,
then
before
,
and
would
not
vse
the
interuention
of
any
of
them
(
because
they
were
vnder
his
charge
)
but
asked
our
Sauiour
himselfe
;
and
therefore
Theophilact
abridging
S.
Chrysostome
in
this
place
(
as
he
doth
in
a
manner
throughout
al
his
homilyes
vpon
the
Ghospells
)
insteed
of
curam
fratrum
in
S.
Chrysostome
hath
{αβγδ}
,
praefecturam
omnium
,
the
prefectship
of
all
.
20.
This
also
may
be
confirmed
out
of
Euthymus
,
another
greeke
Father
,
who
vpon
the
same
chapter
,
and
place
of
S.
Iohn
sayth
,
that
our
Sauiour
asking
S.
Peter
three
tymes
,
whether
he
loued
him
,
&
commanding
him
stil
one
thing
(
to
wit
to
feed
his
sheep
)
did
manifestly
signify
,
that
he
most
highly
esteemed
praesidentiam
super
omnes
discipulos
,
the
presidence
,
or
gouernment
(
which
he
gaue
him
)
ouer
all
his
disciples
;
and
therefore
I
cannot
omit
to
note
heere
by
the
way
,
how
impertinently
M.
Collins
answereth
the
place
cyted
a
little
before
out
of
S.
Chrysostome
alleadged
by
me
also
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
22.
num
.
31.
wherat
he
scoffeth
thus
pag
.
84.
num
.
52.
That
Peter
(
sayth
he
)
had
the
care
of
his
brethren
committed
to
him
,
as
if
we
imagined
Peter
such
a
Cain
,
that
cryed
,
what
haue
I
to
looke
to
my
Brother
?
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
as
who
would
say
,
that
the
charg
which
S.
Peter
had
ouer
his
brethren
,
was
but
only
a
brotherly
care
,
that
one
brother
should
haue
of
another
:
which
sense
cannot
stand
either
with
the
meaning
of
S.
Chrysostome
(
as
any
man
may
easily
see
in
the
place
before
cyted
)
or
with
{αβγδ}
in
Theophilact
,
which
as
I
haue
sayd
,
signifyeth
a
prefecture
,
or
charge
including
iurisdiction
,
and
authoriry
of
gouernement
,
such
as
he
acknowledged
in
S.
Peter
,
when
preferring
him
before
S.
Iames
,
he
sayd
,
as
you
heard
before
,
that
Iames
had
the
throne
of
Hierusalem
,
but
Peter
had
the
throne
,
or
chayre
of
the
whole
world
,
which
S.
Chrysostome
also
in
the
same
place
affirmeth
in
like
manner
,
who
hauing
demaunded
,
why
Iames
was
made
Bishop
of
Hierusalem
and
not
Peter
,
answereth
that
our
Sauiour
preferred
Peter
to
be
the
Maister
of
the
whole
world
.
21.
Whereby
he
signifyeth
plainly
that
albeit
S.
Iames
,
and
all
the
other
Apostles
had
expresse
commission
from
our
Sauiour
to
preach
euery
where
throughout
the
whol
world
(
in
which
respect
he
saith
also
himselfe
in
the
same
place
,
that
the
care
of
the
whole
world
was
recommended
vnto
them
)
yet
his
meaning
was
that
Peter
had
it
in
a
far
more
eminent
manner
then
they
,
because
he
being
Princeps
Apostolorum
,
&
vertex
totius
caetus
,
prince
of
the
Apostles
,
and
head
of
the
whole
company
(
for
so
he
calleth
him
in
the
same
homily
)
had
the
charg
and
gouernement
of
them
,
as
well
as
of
all
others
that
belonged
to
the
sheepfold
of
Christ
;
whereupon
it
followeth
that
he
alone
was
the
supreme
pastour
of
the
whole
Church
,
and
that
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
,
being
the
sheep
of
Christ
,
were
also
subiect
to
him
;
which
S.
Chrysostome
signifyed
euidently
when
he
expounded
pasce
oues
meas
,
by
suscipe
curam
fratrum
tuorum
,
take
the
charge
or
thy
brethren
,
wherby
it
appeareth
what
a
ridiculous
glosse
M.
Collins
maketh
theron
,
when
he
taketh
it
only
for
a
brotherly
care
.
22.
But
now
,
to
returne
for
a
while
to
M.
Casaubon
,
you
haue
seene
how
little
the
greeke
Fathers
,
on
whome
he
seemeth
most
to
rely
,
do
fauour
him
,
and
specially
Theophilact
,
vnto
whome
he
appealeth
by
name
;
in
so
much
that
it
is
hard
to
say
,
whether
his
fraude
,
or
his
folly
be
greater
,
his
fraude
in
abusing
his
Readers
with
a
false
shew
of
auncient
Fathers
,
when
they
make
nothing
for
him
;
his
folly
in
appealing
to
such
,
as
do
flattly
condemne
him
;
so
as
M.
Collins
who
hath
deifyed
him
,
calling
him
the
diuine
man
,
might
rather
haue
noddified
him
,
and
himself
for
company
,
when
he
meant
to
noddify
me
.
But
he
that
will
see
what
a
diuine
man
M.
Casaubon
is
,
let
him
read
F.
Andreas
Eudemon-Ioannes
his
castigations
of
that
mirrour
of
Exercitations
(
as
M.
Collins
tearmeth
it
)
wherto
he
remitteth
me
,
and
he
shall
fynd
the
diuine
man
,
so
farre
from
a
good
Deuine
,
that
he
is
neither
good
Philosopher
,
nor
good
humanist
,
nor
yet
good
Grammarian
,
either
for
the
Latine
,
or
for
the
Greeke
,
wherin
he
most
glorieth
,
and
this
euidently
appeareth
as
well
by
the
obseruation
of
his
errours
made
by
F.
Andraeas
himself
l
2.
cap
.
2.
as
by
those
other
which
he
layeth
downe
in
his
third
chap.
of
the
said
booke
,
noted
by
Mathaeus
Cariophilus
:
wherto
may
be
added
his
many
barbarismes
in
the
latine
long
obserued
euen
in
one
onely
epistle
of
his
by
Gaspar
Schiopius
,
to
say
nothing
of
his
impostures
,
abuse
of
the
holy
fathers
,
and
other
authors
,
and
his
manifold
lyes
,
of
all
which
the
said
F.
Andraeas
giueth
manifest
example
;
so
as
wee
may
see
how
worthily
M.
Collins
hath
deified
him
,
and
how
true
the
latin
Prouerbe
is
,
Mulus
mulum
scabit
,
One
mule
clawes
another
.
23.
And
allthough
it
may
perhapps
seem
a
needles
labour
to
enlarge
my self
in
this
place
further
vpon
M.
Caesaubon
,
yet
because
I
fynd
(
euen
in
that
chapter
of
his
Exercitations
,
whereto
M.
Collins
hath
sent
me
)
that
he
notably
abuseth
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
I
cannot
omit
,
for
the
honour
I
beare
the
worthy
Cardinall
,
to
say
somwhat
therto
,
and
much
the
rather
,
because
it
may
serue
me
also
to
some
good
purpose
,
to
rectify
the
iudgement
of
M.
Collins
in
the
present
Controuersy
betwixt
him
and
me
.
Therfore
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
wheras
the
Cardinall
in
his
4.
booke
de
Rom
Pont
.
cap
.
16.
sayth
,
that
when
our
Sauiour
said
to
S.
Peter
,
Pasce
oues
meas
,
he
vsed
vocabulo
Regio
,
a
Kingly
word
;
and
in
his
recognition
of
all
his
Workes
speaking
of
that
place
,
sayth
,
that
it
may
be
gathered
by
the
words
of
our
Sauiour
,
that
he
gaue
to
S.
Peter
authority
to
gouerne
regio
more
,
after
the
manner
of
a
king
,
remitting
his
Reader
for
the
further
explication
therof
to
his
first
booke
de
Rom.
Pont.
cap
.
15.
(
where
he
bringeth
diuers
places
of
the
holy
Scriptures
,
and
some
out
of
profane
authors
to
proue
that
pasce
,
is
oftymes
vsed
for
regere
,
to
gouerne
,
as
well
in
the
Greeke
,
as
in
the
Latin
;
)
M.
Casaubon
willfully
,
&
maliciously
misconstrueth
the
Cardinals
meaning
,
vrging
and
exaggerating
his
words
further
,
then
euer
he
meant
to
extend
them
.
24.
For
his
intention
was
no
other
,
but
onely
to
signify
that
the
gouernement
of
the
Church
is
by
the
institution
of
our
Sauiour
truly
Monarchicall
,
that
is
to
say
a
lawfull
,
iust
,
and
moderate
Gouernement
vnder
one
head
,
such
as
is
the
gouernement
of
a
iust
,
and
good
King
,
who
seeking
(
according
to
Aristotle
)
the
good
of
his
subiects
,
and
not
his
owne
,
may
truely
be
called
,
Paeter
patriae
the
Father
of
his
country
,
the
refuge
of
the
poore
,
the
defence
of
the
innocent
,
and
the
comfort
of
all
his
distressed
subiects
,
such
as
Dauid
,
&
Moyses
are
described
to
be
in
the
holy
Scriptures
;
yea
such
as
the
very
Paynim
Philosophers
(
who
treat
of
the
office
,
&
duety
of
a
good
king
)
require
him
to
be
;
that
is
to
say
,
not
onely
to
be
the
minister
of
Almighty
God
,
to
administer
iustice
,
but
also
to
be
most
like
him
in
innocency
,
liberality
,
longanimity
,
patience
,
mercy
,
and
in
all
vertue
,
and
goodnes
,
as
Plutarch
,
following
Plato
,
teacheth
notably
in
his
treatise
de
doctrina
Principum
,
and
in
the
life
of
Aristides
.
25.
This
then
being
so
,
and
the
Cardinals
meaning
no
other
(
when
he
speaketh
of
a
kingly
gouernment
in
the
church
)
what
reason
,
or
honest
meaning
hath
M.
Casaubon
to
stretch
the
Cardinals
words
,
&
intention
to
a
tyrannicall
gouernment
,
&
to
inueigh
against
him
for
the
same
,
as
he
doth
?
to
which
purpose
it
is
also
to
be
noted
,
that
whereas
the
Cardinall
produceth
diuers
places
of
Holy
Scripture
,
and
prophane
Authours
(
as
I
haue
signified
before
)
to
proue
that
{αβγδ}
in
greeke
,
and
pascere
in
Latine
,
are
many
tymes
vsed
for
,
regere
,
to
gouerne
;
M.
Casaubon
himself
expoundeth
these
places
to
signify
only
,
that
the
office
of
a
King
is
to
gouerne
his
people
with
such
tendernes
,
sweetnes
,
and
louing
affection
,
as
sheepheards
are
wont
to
gouerne
their
flockes
,
which
was
also
the
Cardinalls
meaning
,
who
in
acknowledging
a
Kingly
manner
of
gouernement
in
the
Church
,
and
producing
those
places
for
the
proofe
thereof
,
had
no
other
intention
,
then
to
denote
the
most
iust
,
sweet
,
moderate
,
and
pastorall
gouernement
that
may
be
.
But
seeing
that
M.
Casaubon
is
scandalized
with
the
wordes
regium
,
and
impera
,
I
meruaile
how
he
doth
brooke
and
digest
the
vse
therof
in
the
holy
Scripture
,
as
1.
Petr
.
2.
where
our
priesthood
is
called
Regale
sacerdotium
,
a
kingly
Priesthood
.
And
in
the
Apocal
cap
.
1
&
5.
Fecisti
●os
Deo
n●stro
regnum
,
&
sacerdotes
,
&
regnabimus
super
terram
:
Thou
hast
made
vs
to
our
God
,
a
kingdome
,
and
Priests
,
and
we
shall
raigne
vpon
the
earth
.
And
in
S.
Paul
to
Titus
cap
.
2.
Argue
cum
omni
imperio
,
reproue
with
all
imperious
command
;
which
seemeth
to
be
much
more
,
then
regio
more
impera
;
for
omne
imperium
,
includeth
not
only
,
the
regall
,
and
imperiall
authority
,
but
also
the
Despoticall
;
wheras
,
Regio
more
,
being
added
to
impera
,
in
the
Cardinall
,
doth
so
qualify
,
&
moderat
the
rigour
of
the
word
that
it
signifyeth
a
most
iust
,
milde
,
and
moderate
gouernement
,
that
is
to
say
,
the
gouernement
of
a
iust
,
and
good
King
;
in
which
sense
the
Cardinall
taketh
it
,
as
I
haue
declared
before
.
26.
Neuertheles
I
must
aduertise
M.
Casaubon
by
the
way
,
that
although
the
gouernement
of
the
Church
ought
to
be
pastorall
,
that
is
to
say
most
moderate
,
and
sweet
;
yet
not
so
moderate
,
gentle
,
and
sweet
,
but
that
the
pastor
may
,
when
occasion
requireth
,
vse
his
pastorall
staffe
to
correct
a
straying
sheep
,
and
beate
him
into
the
fould
;
&
if
there
should
be
a
scabbed
sheep
in
the
flock
,
though
perhaps
he
were
as
good
a
Grammarian
as
M.
Casaubon
,
or
as
great
a
Doctour
as
M.
Collins
,
yet
the
sheepheard
might
with
his
sheep-hooke
draw
him
by
the
legg
out
of
the
fould
,
yea
and
if
he
were
incurable
he
might
giue
him
into
the
butchers
handes
,
least
otherwise
he
might
infect
the
whole
flocke
.
And
this
I
thinke
could
not
seeme
to
any
reasonable
man
,
either
tyrannicall
,
or
vnfit
for
the
office
of
a
good
Pastour
described
(
as
M.
Casaubon
sayth
)
by
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
orat
.
1.
saving
:
Pastor
non
vtitur
multùm
pedo
,
fistula
verò
plurimùm
:
the
Sheepheard
doth
not
much
vse
his
staffe
,
or
sheep-hooke
,
but
his
whistle
very
much
,
that
is
to
say
,
he
vseth
more
lenity
,
then
seuerity
,
oftener
preaching
and
exhorting
,
then
punishing
,
yet
punishing
sometymes
euen
with
seuerity
,
when
there
is
iust
occasion
for
a
publike
good
.
27.
For
what
more
seuere
punishment
can
there
be
,
then
S.
Peter
vsed
to
chastice
Ananias
and
Saphira
,
whome
he
stroke
with
suddain
death
Act.
5
?
Or
then
S.
Paul
vsed
in
the
punishment
of
the
incestuous
Corinthian
deliuering
him
to
Satan
1.
Cor
.
5.
punishing
him
thereby
as
well
in
body
,
as
in
soule
?
And
this
M.
Casaubon
himselfe
seemeth
not
to
deny
,
when
he
sayth
in
the
end
after
his
long
inuectiue
against
the
Cardinall
:
Neque
hoc
dicimus
,
sayth
he
,
quod
putemus
&c.
Neither
do
I
say
this
,
because
I
thinke
that
the
spirituall
pastor
doth
lacke
spirituall
power
to
punish
his
rebels
after
a
spiritual
manner
&c.
meaning
,
no
doubt
that
he
may
punish
by
way
of
excommunication
,
and
censures
;
which
albeit
,
they
do
principally
concerne
the
soule
,
yet
do
consequently
induce
many
tymes
bodily
or
temporall
punishment
;
but
whether
they
do
,
or
no
,
the
only
spirituall
is
more
seuere
,
and
terrible
,
then
any
bodily
,
or
temporall
punishment
in
the
world
;
and
therefore
no
man
that
hath
such
esteeme
of
spirituall
punishments
(
especially
of
excommunications
,
and
Ecclesiasticall
censures
)
as
a
good
Christian
ought
to
haue
,
can
deny
but
that
the
spiritual
pastor
may
vse
rigour
,
and
seuerity
,
when
occasion
requireth
.
28.
Well
then
,
this
I
haue
touched
briefly
by
occasion
of
M.
Casaubons
malicious
censure
,
and
reprehension
of
the
Cardinal
;
and
as
I
haue
sayd
before
,
I
haue
don
it
the
rather
,
because
it
may
serue
me
also
to
some
good
purpose
for
the
instruction
of
M.
Collins
,
who
sent
me
vnto
him
.
For
whereas
M.
Collins
hath
denyed
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
that
S.
Peter
had
,
by
the
wordes
pasce
oues
meas
,
any
authority
giuen
him
to
gouerne
,
or
rule
,
but
only
to
seed
(
for
which
cause
he
also
suppressed
the
words
of
S.
Ambrose
,
who
expounded
pascere
by
gubernare
)
he
is
clearely
conuinced
by
his
diuine
man
M.
Casaubon
,
who
(
albeit
he
exclude
tyranny
,
or
great
seuerity
from
the
pastoral
office
)
yet
granteth
,
that
the
spirituall
Pastor
hath
●ot
only
praesecturam
,
that
is
to
say
a
Prefectship
,
or
gouernement
(
though
omnium
mitissimum
,
sayth
he
,
the
most
milde
,
and
gentle
of
all
other
,
which
no
man
denyeth
)
but
also
spiritualem
potestatem
animaduertendi
in
rebelles
;
power
to
punish
his
rebellious
subiects
;
and
that
Pastor
castigat
pedo
,
the
Pastor
punisheth
with
his
Pastorall
staffe
,
or
sheep-hooke
(
but
not
with
Virga
ferrea
,
sayth
he
,
the
yron
rodde
(
about
which
point
I
will
not
stand
now
to
dispute
with
him
,
thogh
I
know
not
what
yron
rodd
can
be
so
grieuous
as
an
excommunication
,
)
but
it
sufficeth
me
for
M.
Collins
at
this
present
,
that
his
diuine
man
M.
Casaubon
graunteth
to
the
Pastor
authority
of
gouernment
,
thogh
most
gentle
,
and
milde
,
partly
approuing
Theophilacts
exposition
of
the
Greeke
word
〈◇〉
signifying
,
or
denoting
imperium
mite
,
a
milde
gouernement
,
and
partly
allowing
S.
Hilaryes
interpretation
of
{αβγδ}
,
who
expoundeth
it
by
pastoraliter
regere
;
wherupon
M.
Casaubon
himselfe
also
sayth
:
En
lu●●l●nter
à
magno
Doctore
expositum
&c.
Behould
how
a
great
Doctor
expoundeth
clearely
,
what
Pastor
,
and
pascere
,
do
signify
,
when
they
are
spoken
of
the
gouernours
of
the
Church
.
29.
Now
then
I
inferre
heereupon
against
M.
Collins
,
that
seeing
our
Sauiour
Christ
when
he
gaue
the
pastoral
commission
to
S.
Peter
vsed
a
word
,
which
signifyeth
pasce
,
as
our
Latine
hath
it
,
and
is
expressed
in
the
greeke
by
{αβγδ}
,
and
{αβγδ}
,
he
gaue
him
authority
not
only
to
feed
,
and
direct
his
sheep
with
doctrine
,
but
also
to
gouerne
,
and
chastise
them
,
according
to
the
iudgment
as
well
of
the
diuine
Casaubon
,
as
of
the
two
Fathers
S.
Hilary
,
and
Theophilact
alleadged
by
him
.
30.
And
if
M.
Collins
seeke
to
escape
heere
by
his
wonted
distinction
,
that
S.
Peter
did
not
receaue
this
commission
for
himselfe
,
but
as
a
proxy
for
the
Church
,
M.
Casaubon
hath
so
hemd
him
in
,
as
I
may
say
with
the
authority
of
Theophilact
,
that
he
cannot
start
out
:
for
Theophilact
declareth
plainely
euen
in
the
same
place
,
which
M.
Casaubon
cyteth
,
that
Christ
gaue
the
gouernment
of
the
sheepe
of
all
the
world
to
Peter
,
and
not
to
any
other
but
to
him
That
is
to
say
,
to
none
principally
,
and
immediatly
but
to
him
,
albeit
he
gaue
the
same
in
him
,
and
by
him
to
the
whole
Church
,
which
he
represented
,
being
supreme
Pastor
,
&
head
thereof
,
as
hath
beene
sufficiently
declared
&
shewed
before
,
throughout
all
the
precedent
Chapters
.
31.
Therefore
I
leaue
it
now
,
good
Reader
,
to
thee
to
iudge
who
is
the
Noddy
,
I
,
whome
M
Collins
calleth
so
,
and
sendeth
to
schoole
to
M.
Casaubon
;
or
he
,
for
sending
me
to
such
a
Maister
,
who
as
you
see
vtterly
confoundeth
him
,
partly
by
Theophilact
,
and
partly
by
his
owne
doctrine
,
teaching
that
pasce
,
as
it
was
spoken
by
our
Sauiour
to
S
Peter
,
signifyeth
to
gouerne
,
which
M.
Collins
flatly
denyeth
,
as
you
haue
heard
hitherto
,
and
shall
heare
further
in
that
which
followeth
.
For
whereas
he
endeauoureth
to
answere
my
former
obiection
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
viz.
that
S.
Peter
was
commanded
to
feed
all
kind
of
Christians
,
that
he
might
gouerne
as
well
the
perfect
,
as
the
vnperfect
,
and
weake
(
yea
the
Apostles
themselues
,
as
being
comprehended
amongst
the
more
perfect
)
M.
Collins
spendeth
,
or
rather
spoyleth
a
great
deale
of
Rhetorike
to
peruert
S.
Ambrose
his
meaning
,
and
cozen
his
Reader
.
And
after
he
hath
flaunted
a
while
,
after
his
fond
fashion
,
he
goeth
on
thus
.
Do
we
looke
that
it
should
haue
been
sayd
,
feed
all
saue
the
Apostles
?
Or
all
saue
Princes
?
Why
should
Princes
,
&
Apostles
not
pro●it
by
Peter
?
Why
should
they
be
denyed
the
benefit
of
his
feeding
?
Why
should
not
all
the
Apostles
feed
al
the
world
?
Why
should
not
one
Apostle
feed
another
,
Peter
his
fellowes
,
and
they
Peter
?
So
he
,
dissembling
altogeather
the
mention
of
gouernement
in
S.
Ambrose
,
and
reducing
all
by
degrees
to
a
bare
feeding
,
as
that
S.
Peter
should
feed
the
Apostles
,
and
yet
no
other
wayes
,
thē
as
they
should
feed
him
,
one
Apostle
(
saith
he
)
should
feed
another
,
Peter
his
fellowes
,
&
they
him
.
32.
But
this
deep
deuise
of
his
is
vtterly
dashed
with
those
few
wordes
of
S.
Ambrose
(
which
he
listed
not
to
see
,
but
most
fraudulently
dissembleth
,
to
wit
,
vt
perfectiores
perfectior
gubernaret
)
as
also
with
the
authority
of
Theophilact
,
and
S.
Hilary
,
before
alleadged
,
and
approued
by
M.
Casaubon
,
who
vnderstand
,
and
acknowledge
the
authority
of
gouernement
in
the
pastorall
commission
giuen
to
S.
Peter
;
besides
the
testimonyes
,
which
you
haue
heard
also
before
in
the
second
chap.
num
16.
out
of
S.
Augustine
,
expounding
pascere
,
by
docere
,
&
regere
to
teach
,
and
gouerne
,
and
now
also
in
this
chap.
out
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
&
Euthymius
,
teaching
expresly
,
that
Christ
gaue
vnto
S.
Peter
the
charge
,
and
gouernement
of
the
Apostles
,
or
disciples
,
when
he
bad
him
feed
his
sheep
.
33.
And
now
to
those
I
will
yet
add
one
other
testimony
out
of
S.
Leo
,
which
I
obiected
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
24.
nu
.
22.
and
M.
Collins
vndertaketh
also
to
answere
pag
.
85.
num
.
53.
and
this
I
will
do
the
rather
,
because
he
vseth
therin
the
same
fraud
and
cozenage
that
you
haue
already
seene
in
his
answere
to
the
place
of
S.
Ambrose
.
S.
Leo's
words
are
these
serm
.
3.
in
assump
ad
Pontif
.
Peter
was
chosen
out
of
the
whole
world
to
haue
the
chiefe
charge
of
the
vocation
of
the
Gentills
,
and
of
all
the
Apostles
,
&
of
all
the
Fathers
of
the
Church
,
to
the
end
,
that
albeit
there
be
many
Priests
amongst
the
people
of
God
,
and
many
Pastours
;
omnes
tamen
propriè
regat
Petrus
,
yet
Peter
may
properly
gouerne
them
all
,
whome
Christ
doth
also
principally
gouerne
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Leo
,
teaching
expresly
that
S.
Peter
had
the
gouernment
,
as
well
of
the
Apostles
themselues
,
as
of
all
other
Pastors
of
the
Church
vnder
Christ
,
who
is
the
principall
gouernour
of
them
all
.
34.
And
what
sayth
M.
Collins
to
this
trow
you
?
Marry
forsooth
he
layth
downe
part
of
the
place
,
thus
:
Peter
was
chosen
out
of
the
whole
world
to
haue
the
chiefe
charge
of
the
vocation
of
the
Gentills
,
and
of
all
the
Apostles
,
and
of
all
the
Fathers
of
the
Church
.
Thus
much
he
alleadgeth
,
and
then
sayth
,
that
there
is
nothing
heere
for
my
turne
,
saue
that
Peter
was
chosen
to
haue
the
charge
of
the
Apostles
,
&
therfore
in
answere
therof
sayth
a
little
after
.
Neither
doe
we
deny
,
that
Peter
might
haue
the
charge
of
the
Apostles
,
yet
no
commaunding
charge
but
either
as
ferrum
acuit
ferrum
,
one
yron
whets
,
and
sharpens
another
(
so
the
face
of
one
brother
to
quicken
another
by
his
encouragements
,
confirma
fratres
)
or
bono
vnitatis
,
preferred
for
his
maturity
to
preuent
schisme
,
and
disorder
,
as
hath
beene
tould
you
;
though
the
name
(
Apostles
)
is
common
to
some
without
the
company
of
the
twelue
,
and
the
Scripture
vseth
it
so
Philip
.
2.25
.
whome
Peter
might
be
charged
with
,
and
with
the
other
fathers
of
the
church
(
as
Leo
calls
heere
the
Bishops
of
their
making
)
without
derogating
from
the
Colledge
of
them
properly
so
called
.
So
he
,
granting
three
thinges
,
with
certaine
limitations
,
whereby
he
would
seeme
fully
to
haue
answered
me
for
this
place
;
the
first
is
,
that
Peter
might
haue
the
charge
of
the
Apostls
,
but
no
commanding
charge
.
The
second
that
he
was
preferred
before
the
rest
,
only
,
for
the
good
of
vnity
,
and
in
respect
of
his
maturity
(
for
the
which
he
remitteth
me
to
what
he
hath
told
me
before
.
)
The
third
is
,
that
he
might
haue
the
charge
of
such
,
as
were
tearmed
Apostles
,
and
were
none
of
the
twelue
.
35.
But
if
M.
Collins
had
beene
as
honest
a
man
,
as
a
Doctor
of
Diuinity
should
be
,
I
meane
,
if
he
had
alleadged
the
whole
place
of
S.
Leo
,
as
he
found
it
in
my
Adioynder
(
&
cannot
be
denyed
to
be
the
true
words
of
the
Authour
)
I
thinke
he
could
not
for
shame
haue
sayd
any
of
these
three
things
;
for
you
may
see
in
the
place
before
alleadged
,
that
after
the
wordes
of
S.
Leo
,
layd
downe
by
M.
Collins
,
there
followeth
immediatly
this
:
Vt
quamuis
in
populo
Dei
multi
sunt
sacerdotes
&c.
that
albeyt
there
be
many
Priests
among
the
people
of
God
,
and
many
pastors
;
yet
that
Peter
may
properly
gouerne
them
all
,
whome
Christ
doth
also
principally
gouerne
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Leo
,
which
quite
ouerthroweth
M.
Collins
his
glosse
,
who
acknowledgeth
that
S.
Peter
had
the
charge
of
the
Apostles
,
but
no
commanding
charge
;
wheras
S.
Leo
speaketh
expresly
of
a
charge
of
gouernement
,
that
is
to
say
,
a
commaunding
charge
.
Againe
,
M.
Collins
graunteth
that
S.
Peter
was
preferred
before
the
rest
in
respect
of
his
maturity
,
and
for
the
good
of
vnity
;
and
S.
Leo
telleth
vs
,
what
S.
Peters
preferment
was
,
viz.
that
he
did
properly
gouerne
all
the
Pastours
of
the
Church
,
whome
Christ
doth
principally
gouerne
.
36.
But
heere
I
cannot
forget
,
good
Reader
,
to
put
thee
in
mind
by
the
way
of
what
hath
passed
before
in
this
very
Chap.
num
.
8.
in
his
answere
to
the
place
of
Saint
Ambrose
pag
.
48.
where
he
obserued
(
out
of
the
depth
of
his
Grammaticall
science
)
agreat
difference
betwixt
anteferri
,
and
praponi
.
Anteferri
(
sayth
he
)
is
one
thing
,
and
praeponi
is
another
;
the
later
may
be
of
authority
,
the
first
of
any
excellency
.
So
as
if
S.
Ambrose
,
had
vsed
praeponi
,
as
he
did
anteferri
,
Maister
Collins
would
haue
graunted
,
as
it
seemeth
,
that
he
had
acknowledged
in
S.
Peter
a
preferment
of
authority
,
and
gouernement
;
which
therefore
I
must
desire
him
to
graunt
me
now
in
this
place
of
Saint
Leo
,
who
for
the
wordes
,
which
I
translate
,
to
haue
the
chiefe
charge
of
the
Apostles
,
hath
in
Latin
praeponatur
omnibus
Apostolis
,
which
no
doubt
M.
Collins
saw
in
the
Latin
(
for
I
make
no
doubt
but
he
would
examine
the
place
in
S.
Leo
)
and
yet
you
see
he
will
not
graunt
to
S.
Peter
any
authority
more
then
to
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
,
so
as
praeponi
hath
now
no
more
force
with
him
,
then
anteferri
;
and
therefore
I
leaue
it
to
thy
iudgment
,
good
Reader
,
what
credit
his
Grammaticall
obseruations
deserue
to
haue
with
others
,
seeing
he
maketh
so
little
account
of
them
himselfe
.
37.
But
now
to
proceed
with
his
3.
note
vpon
the
words
of
S.
Leo
,
wheras
he
hopeth
to
finde
a
starting
hole
by
the
name
(
Apostles
)
because
it
is
sometymes
applyed
to
those
,
which
were
none
of
the
12.
or
of
the
colledge
of
the
Apostles
,
S.
Leo's
words
do
deb●r
him
vtterly
from
that
eu●sion
,
speaking
of
al
the
Apostles
,
&
not
of
some
,
omnibus
Apo●tolis
praeponatur
sa●th
S.
Leo
,
which
cannot
be
vndestood
of
some
in
particuler
,
and
specially
of
such
,
as
onely
were
so
called
,
and
were
not
of
the
number
of
the
12.
Besides
that
S.
Leo
his
conclusion
,
which
M.
Collins
fraudulently
concealed
(
as
he
did
before
,
that
other
of
S.
Ambrose
)
doth
vtterly
marre
his
market
:
for
if
the
12.
Apostles
were
to
be
comprehended
(
as
no
doubt
they
were
)
amongst
those
Priestes
,
and
pastors
whome
Christ
doth
principally
gouerne
,
he
must
needs
graunt
,
that
according
to
S.
Leo
they
were
all
gouerned
properly
by
S
:
Peter
.
38.
Behold
then
what
an
absurd
answere
he
hath
shaped
vs
heere
,
besides
the
notable
fraude
that
he
hath
vsed
therin
;
so
as
I
may
well
say
,
that
if
he
answere
argumentes
no
better
in
the
publick
actes
,
&
commencementes
at
Cambrige
,
he
will
shame
the
Vniuersity
,
and
deserue
to
be
hyssed
out
of
the
Schooles
.
I
omit
what
he
idly
cyteth
out
of
S.
Leo
,
which
doth
no
way
contradict
that
which
I
haue
allready
alleadged
out
of
him
,
but
might
serue
notably
to
conunice
him
,
if
it
were
needfull
,
or
that
I
would
stand
longer
vpon
it
;
but
it
sufficeth
for
the
present
,
that
hi●
fraude
in
this
is
most
euident
,
and
inexcusable
.
And
wheras
he
insinuateth
an
exception
,
which
he
might
take
to
S.
Leo's
testimony
,
to
wit
,
because
he
is
our
o●ne
Pope
(
as
he
tearmeth
him
)
and
not
a
little
addicted
to
the
amplysying
of
the
Philacteryes
of
his
owne
sea
.
And
againe
,
that
it
was
easy
for
Leo
to
Rhetoricate
at
Rome
in
prayse
of
Peter
.
I
may
well
say
to
M.
Collins
,
that
it
is
a
signe
of
a
very
bad
&
desperate
cause
to
take
exceptions
to
the
testimonyes
of
such
as
all
antiquity
a●mired
,
and
held
for
testes
omni
exceptione
maiores
;
for
so
I
may
truly
say
of
Pope
Leo
,
who
was
so
famous
in
his
tyme
both
for
learning
,
wisedome
,
and
sanctity
of
life
,
that
he
was
honoured
with
the
title
Leo
Magnus
,
&
hath
beene
euer
since
held
and
honoured
by
the
whole
Church
for
a
Saint
;
besids
that
,
such
was
the
integrity
of
his
fayth
&
doctrine
,
that
the
whole
Councel
of
Chalcedon
(
which
was
the
fourth
generall
Councell
,
and
is
allowed
by
his
Maiesty
for
Oecumenical
)
gaue
notable
testimony
thereof
in
an
epistle
,
which
the
sayd
Councell
wrote
to
the
Em●erour
Martian
,
affirming
that
God
had
prouided
for
them
in
Pope
Leo
,
impenetrabilem
in
omnem
errorem
propugnatorem
;
an
inuincible
defender
against
all
errour
,
and
prepared
him
for
victory
:
doctrinis
eum
per
omnia
veritatis
astringens
&c.
binding
him
with
the
doctrine
of
verity
in
all
things
,
to
the
end
that
he
fighting
with
seruent
affection
,
as
Peter
did
,
may
bring
all
sense
and
vnderstanding
to
God
.
Thus
wrote
that
famous
&
auncient
Councell
of
Pope
Leo
,
shewing
their
constant
opinion
and
iudgment
touching
the
infallible
verity
of
his
doctrine
,
by
whose
conduct
and
authority
they
assured
themselues
that
God
did
guide
them
to
all
truth
,
and
defend
them
from
all
errour
;
in
which
respect
they
also
acknowledged
themselues
to
reuerence
in
his
person
the
authority
of
S.
Peter
,
as
appeareth
further
by
the
applause
and
acclamations
of
the
whole
Councell
to
an
epistle
of
his
;
Petrus
say
they
,
per
Leonem
locutus
est
;
Peter
hath
spoken
by
Pope
Leo
,
wherby
they
testifyed
the
reuerend
respect
they
bare
,
aswell
to
him
,
as
to
S.
Peter
,
and
to
the
sea
Apostolike
,
which
he
gouerned
,
as
S.
Peters
successor
.
Who
then
would
not
detest
the
audacious
temerity
of
M.
Collins
,
and
his
fellowes
,
who
because
they
cannot
answere
the
pregnant
places
which
are
alleadged
out
of
him
for
the
proofe
of
the
Popes
Supremacy
,
do
seek
to
calumniate
and
disgrace
him
with
the
imputation
of
ambition
,
and
pride
,
whom
all
antiquity
,
and
the
famous
and
ancient
generall
Councell
of
Chalcedon
reuerenced
,
and
admired
,
as
a
mirrour
of
learning
&
sanctity
.
39.
But
now
to
returne
to
the
place
of
S.
Ambrose
,
from
the
which
I
haue
a
little
digressed
,
and
to
come
to
the
conclusion
of
M.
Collins
his
discourse
,
it
were
truely
a
wonder
,
if
it
were
any
whit
wiser
then
the
rest
;
seeing
that
he
hath
one
special
vertue
,
or
quality
,
which
is
,
that
he
is
semper
idem
,
&
sui
similis
,
alwayes
the
same
man
,
&
like
himselfe
,
as
wise
in
the
end
,
as
in
the
beginning
,
alwayes
impertinent
,
alwayes
ridiculous
,
yet
more
heere
,
if
more
may
be
,
then
hitherto
,
as
thou
shalt
see
,
good
Reader
,
in
this
vpshot
of
his
answere
to
the
place
of
S.
Ambrose
,
which
I
will
therefore
giue
thee
in
his
owne
wordes
.
40.
Nay
,
how
if
the
Iesuite
(
sayth
he
)
haue
so
mistaken
himself
in
his
curious
distinction
betwixt
Lambes
,
and
Sheep
,
that
he
hath
cleane
exempted
both
Apostles
,
and
Kinges
from
Peters
iurisdiction
?
to
bring
whom
in
,
and
to
raung
them
within
the
compasse
of
that
supreame
power
,
the
distiction
only
was
at
first
deuised
:
for
if
oues
&
agni
only
be
S.
Peters
walk
,
&
he
the
shepheard
,
wher
are
arietes
?
where
are
the
rammes
?
the
rammes
being
the
Apostles
by
Turrians
exposition
,
or
the
successors
of
the
Apostles
,
that
is
,
the
Bishops
,
and
againe
,
the
rammes
being
meant
by
kings
,
as
Tolet
witnesseth
vpon
the
15.
of
S.
Iohn
annot
.
3.
Two
Iesuits
,
you
see
,
I
bring
him
,
and
the
one
a
Cardinall
made
for
his
learning
,
which
I
think
will
neuer
be
his
lot
;
but
hath
he
not
spunne
a
faire
threed
,
I
say
,
shutting
out
both
Apostles
,
&
kings
,
whom
by
that
very
trick
he
would
haue
shut
in
?
And
so
much
of
his
answere
to
the
first
exception
,
that
the
byshop
makes
against
the
argument
drawne
from
pasce
oues
meas
,
consisting
in
the
authority
of
S.
Augustine
,
and
S.
Ambrose
.
Thus
concludeth
he
.
41.
Wherein
three
notable
fooleryes
are
to
be
ob●erued
.
First
that
he
sayth
,
the
Iesuit
deuised
this
distinction
of
lambes
,
&
sheep
,
to
bring
the
Apostles
,
and
Kings
vnder
S.
Peters
iurisdiction
;
wheras
you
see
,
that
the
distinction
was
made
by
our
Sauiour
himselfe
obserued
by
S.
Ambrose
,
&
only
related
by
me
without
any
mention
of
Kings
in
particuler
,
but
of
al
Christians
in
generall
;
and
albeit
I
mention
the
Apostles
,
I
do
it
not
so
much
by
reason
of
the
distinction
of
sheep
,
&
lambes
,
as
by
the
occasion
of
S.
Ambrose
his
comment
therupon
,
who
vnderstandeth
by
sheep
the
more
perfect
,
amongst
whome
I
include
the
Apostles
.
Secondly
M.
Collins
seemeth
to
exclude
rammes
from
the
sheepfold
,
seeing
that
he
will
not
haue
them
comprehended
in
the
distinction
of
sheep
and
lambes
,
nor
to
be
reckoned
in
the
number
of
sheep
;
perhaps
this
great
Grammarian
hath
noted
,
that
ouis
,
for
a
sheepe
is
of
the
feminine
gender
,
and
that
therfore
a
Ramme
cannot
be
a
sheep
.
42.
But
then
,
I
would
know
whether
a
Wether
be
a
sheep
,
by
M.
Collins
his
grammer
,
and
if
he
be
,
why
a
Ramme
may
not
be
a
sheep
also
;
&
againe
whether
because
Agnus
is
of
the
masculine
gender
,
there
be
any
she
lambes
,
and
consequently
whether
they
were
vnder
Peters
iurisdiction
,
when
our
Sauiour
sayd
vnto
him
pasce
agnos
meos
,
and
if
they
were
,
why
then
the
male
sheep
,
that
is
to
say
the
Rammes
,
and
Wethers
could
not
be
included
in
pasce
oues
meas
,
and
in
the
number
of
those
sheep
,
of
whom
the
Royall
Prophet
sayth
:
oues
&
boues
,
&
pecora
campi
&c.
psal
.
8.
and
of
those
of
whome
he
sayd
also
2.
Reg
.
24.
Isti
qui
oues
sunt
,
quid
fecerunt
:
these
which
were
sheep
what
haue
they
done
?
And
finally
when
our
Sauiour
shall
place
the
sheep
vpon
his
right
hand
,
&
the
goats
vpon
his
left
,
if
the
Rammes
be
not
sheep
,
where
shall
they
stand
?
Do
I
seeme
to
you
M.
Collins
too
grammatical
,
as
you
sayd
to
me
whyle
ere
?
But
truly
if
you
were
not
more
seely
then
a
sheep
,
you
would
neuer
haue
denyed
Rammes
to
be
sheep
,
as
you
do
,
excluding
them
from
the
distinction
of
sheep
and
lambes
.
43.
But
now
to
come
to
the
third
foolery
(
which
truly
I
know
not
whether
it
be
more
foolish
or
fraudulent
:
)
Arietes
,
sayth
he
,
are
(
by
the
opinion
of
two
Iesuits
Turrianus
,
and
Cardinall
Tolet
)
to
be
vnderstood
to
be
the
Apostles
,
or
Bishops
their
successours
,
and
Kings
,
who
therfore
being
neither
sheep
,
nor
lambes
,
are
excluded
from
the
dominion
of
Peter
:
and
so
(
as
he
sayth
)
I
haue
spunne
a
faire
threed
to
shut
them
out
whome
by
that
very
tricke
(
he
meaneth
the
distinction
of
sheepe
and
lambes
)
I
would
haue
shut
in
.
How
faire
the
threed
is
,
that
I
haue
spunne
,
I
leaue
it
to
the
iudgement
of
others
;
but
sure
I
am
,
that
of
my
faire
threed
(
if
it
be
a
faire
one
)
he
hath
wouen
a
very
foule
,
false
,
and
weake
web
,
arguing
as
simply
,
and
ignorantly
,
as
you
haue
heard
him
before
chap.
2.
num
.
25.
&
26.
out
of
a
similitude
,
or
comparison
betwixt
S.
Peter
,
and
Iudas
,
applying
it
to
other
purpose
then
it
serueth
for
,
wherein
he
is
so
much
the
more
inexcusable
heer
,
for
that
he
hath
taken
this
out
of
Tolet
vpon
the
15
chap.
of
S.
Iohn
annotat
.
3.
who
treating
of
the
false
application
of
similitudes
,
and
of
the
weaknes
of
arguments
grounded
theron
,
bringeth
this
example
,
that
Christ
is
compared
in
the
Scripture
to
a
lambe
,
and
Kings
to
Rammes
:
Neuerthelesse
sayth
he
,
it
doth
not
follow
theron
,
that
Kinges
are
greater
then
Christ
,
because
ramms
are
greater
then
lambes
,
Id
enim
tantùm
ex
parabola
petendum
est
,
ad
quod
significandum
est
proposita
for
that
only
is
to
be
drawne
,
or
taken
from
a
parable
,
or
similitude
,
for
the
which
it
is
proposed
.
Thus
sayth
Tolet
.
44.
Now
then
M.
Collins
taketh
out
of
●olet
,
that
Kings
are
compared
to
Rammes
(
as
indeed
they
may
well
be
,
because
they
are
,
as
it
were
duces
gregis
,
the
leaders
of
the
flocke
)
and
applyeth
it
cleane
contrary
to
his
mind
,
and
to
the
instruction
,
which
he
giueth
with
that
example
;
for
Kings
were
neuer
compared
to
rammes
in
the
Scripture
with
any
relation
to
S.
Peter
,
no
more
then
with
relation
to
Christ
;
and
therefore
,
as
the
argument
was
not
good
,
and
worthily
reproued
by
Tolet
,
which
referred
them
to
Christ
,
no
more
could
any
argument
be
good
,
that
should
any
way
referre
them
to
S.
Peter
,
because
as
I
haue
sayd
,
the
comparison
of
rammes
with
Kings
was
not
made
,
nor
is
vsed
in
the
Scripture
to
any
s●ch
purpose
;
but
if
such
an
argument
coul●
be
good
,
M.
Collins
would
be
vtterly
spoyled
with
his
comparison
;
for
seeing
that
the
Rams
(
albeit
they
are
leaders
of
the
whole
flocke
,
yet
)
are
no
lesse
subiect
to
the
sheepheard
,
then
the
meanest
sheep
in
the
fold
;
it
would
follow
directly
,
that
Kinges
are
no
lesse
subiect
to
S.
Peter
(
to
whom
Christ
gaue
commission
to
feed
his
sheep
)
then
the
poorest
Christian
in
their
kingdomes
.
45.
Thus
thou
seest
,
good
Reader
,
what
a
faire
threed
M.
Collins
hath
spunne
in
shutting
in
both
Apostles
,
and
Kinges
within
the
iurisdiction
and
gouernement
of
S.
Peter
,
by
the
very
same
tricke
,
wherby
he
thought
to
shut
them
out
,
and
so
remayneth
foyled
euery
way
,
euen
by
his
owne
argument
,
besides
his
notable
abuse
of
S.
Ambrose
,
and
S.
Leo
,
as
you
haue
heard
a
little
before
;
and
now
of
Cardinall
Tolet
,
whom
he
alleadgeth
directly
contrary
to
his
own
meaning
,
which
must
needs
be
against
the
light
of
his
owne
conscience
,
if
he
haue
any
,
wherew●th
you
heard
him
charge
me
once
,
and
call
me
wretch
,
when
neuertheles
not
I
,
but
he
himself
was
taken
tardy
with
it
,
in
the
same
place
,
as
you
may
see
before
cap
.
1.
num
.
10.
&
11.
If
therefore
he
had
found
me
halting
in
this
manner
,
how
would
he
haue
triumphed
,
and
treated
me
thinke
you
?
What
names
,
and
titles
would
he
haue
bestowed
vpon
me
,
as
he
doth
many
tymes
without
any
cause
calling
me
,
Wretch
,
Noddy
,
Hobbyhorse
,
Mastiff
Dogge
,
Curre
false
Theef
,
a
souterly
fellow
,
&
what
not
?
But
for
my
part
I
will
say
no
more
of
him
,
but
that
he
is
a
great
Grammarian
,
and
a
deep
Doctor
of
Diuinity
,
and
that
if
he
may
stil
be
imployed
for
a
writer
,
the
Vniuersity
of
Cambridge
will
haue
much
honour
by
him
,
Kings
College
a
notable
Ornament
,
and
the
Clergy
of
England
a
great
light
,
the
Ghospell
great
increase
,
my
Lord
of
Winchester
a
doughty
,
and
worthy
Champion
,
all
his
friends
a
singular
comfort
,
and
only
I
,
poore
wretch
,
and
the
Catholikes
are
like
to
haue
a
terrible
,
and
a
potent
aduersary
,
God
help
vs
;
for
,
Si
Deus
nobiscum
,
quis
contra
nos
?
46.
But
now
to
conclude
this
matter
,
and
Chapter
,
you
haue
heard
what
he
hath
thought
good
to
say
to
my
answere
to
the
first
exception
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
makes
against
our
argument
drawne
from
pasce
oues
meas
,
consisting
in
the
authority
of
S.
Augustine
,
and
S.
Ambrose
,
and
I
doubt
not
but
you
haue
clearely
seene
three
thinges
.
First
that
the
charge
of
a
lame
,
and
fraudulent
quotation
of
S.
Augustine
which
I
layd
vpon
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
remayneth
good
,
for
ought
that
M.
Collins
hath
beene
able
to
say
to
the
contrary
,
seeing
I
haue
shewed
clearely
that
the
wordes
,
and
circumstances
of
the
place
alleadged
by
my
Lord
(
to
proue
that
S.
Peter
had
no
more
authority
by
pasce
oues
meas
,
then
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
)
did
proue
the
contrary
;
signifying
expresly
that
those
wordes
were
sayd
to
S.
Peter
,
as
he
bare
the
person
of
the
Church
,
which
he
did
(
according
to
S.
Augustins
expresse
doctrine
)
propter
primatum
,
in
respect
of
his
primacy
;
&
that
therfore
S.
Augustine
sayd
,
that
which
my
Lord
of
Winchester
obiecteth
out
of
him
,
to
wit
,
Cum
Petro
dicitur
,
ad
omnes
dicitur
,
pasce
oues
meas
,
when
it
was
sayd
to
Peter
,
it
was
sayd
to
all
,
feed
my
sheep
;
because
he
being
primate
,
and
chiefe
pastor
of
the
Church
,
receaued
that
commission
for
himselfe
,
and
for
the
whole
Church
;
so
as
my
Lord
of
Winchester
obiecting
the
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
contrary
to
his
meaning
,
and
dissembling
the
reason
thereof
(
which
was
expressed
sufficiently
in
the
same
place
)
was
worthily
charged
by
me
with
a
lame
,
and
fraudulent
quotation
,
wherof
you
see
M.
Collins
hath
no
way
discharged
him
.
47.
Secondly
whereas
M.
Collins
following
my
Lord
of
Wincester
hath
expounded
the
primacy
,
which
Saint
Augustine
acknowledgeth
in
S.
Peter
,
to
be
a
primacy
of
place
,
or
excellency
,
and
not
of
authority
,
or
gouernement
;
you
see
I
haue
proued
the
contrary
,
as
well
out
of
S.
Augustine
and
other
Fathers
in
the
precedent
Chapters
,
as
now
in
this
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
and
S.
Leo
,
who
teach
S.
Peters
primacy
of
gouernement
so
expresly
,
that
M.
Collins
had
no
way
to
answere
them
,
but
with
a
fraudulent
silence
,
and
dissimulation
of
that
which
most
imported
,
as
you
haue
seene
so
lately
that
I
need
not
to
repeate
it
.
48.
Thirdly
,
you
haue
seene
also
how
M.
Collins
hath
quit
himselfe
in
his
answere
to
my
Adioinder
,
so
farre
as
yet
we
haue
gone
,
wherein
you
may
haue
noted
such
a
number
of
follyes
,
absurdityes
,
contradictions
,
falsifications
,
and
abuse
of
Authors
,
that
you
may
guesse
,
with
what
manner
of
ware
the
rest
of
his
great
pedlars
packe
is
stuffed
;
seeing
that
nothing
hath
passed
from
him
,
of
all
that
which
I
haue
hitherto
examined
,
wherein
he
hath
not
beene
notably
ouertaken
:
and
in
one
thing
specially
he
surpasseth
all
other
ignorant
,
and
foolish
Scriblers
of
this
age
(
at
least
those
which
I
haue
seene
)
that
he
hath
not
the
wit
to
vnderstand
when
he
argueth
against
his
aduersary
,
or
against
himselfe
,
whereof
you
haue
seene
diuers
examples
.
And
therefore
I
may
with
great
reason
say
vnto
him
,
for
the
conclusion
of
this
Chapter
,
and
Controuersy
,
Obmutesce
Samuel
,
for
shame
,
obmutesce
.
The
Author
passeth
to
another
Controuersy
touching
Prayer
to
Saints
,
and
the
Veneration
of
their
relikes
:
and
for
breuityes
sake
vndertaketh
from
henceforth
to
discouer
only
M.
Collins
his
falsityes
fraudes
,
and
manifest
lyes
;
omitting
his
absurdityes
and
fooleryes
.
AND
In
this
Chapter
M.
Collins
is
conuinced
to
●aue
shamefully
abused
not
onely
the
Author
,
but
also
S.
Hierome
,
S
Basil
,
the
Councell
of
Gangra
,
S.
Ephraem
,
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
and
S.
Epiphanius
.
And
by
the
way
,
Answere
is
returned
to
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
of
a
message
which
he
sent
to
the
Author
by
M.
Collins
.
CHAP.
VII
.
FOR
as
much
as
this
my
reply
is
already
growne
to
a
greater
Volume
,
then
at
the
first
I
determined
,
I
will
take
a
shorter
course
from
henceforth
,
&
therefore
hauing
hitherto
ventilated
,
and
debated
with
M.
Collins
only
the
matter
of
the
Popes
supremacy
;
and
now
meaning
,
in
the
ensuing
Chapters
,
to
treat
of
another
Controuersy
,
to
wit
.
Of
prayer
to
Saints
,
and
the
Veneration
of
their
Relikes
,
I
will
prosecute
my
first
intended
course
;
which
is
to
attend
only
to
the
discouery
of
his
cozenages
&
fraudes
in
his
answeres
to
the
places
,
and
authorityes
of
the
Fathers
alleadged
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
,
whereby
I
doubt
not
,
but
that
his
bad
conscience
,
&
the
weaknes
of
his
cause
wil
be
no
lesse
euident
,
then
if
I
should
discouer
all
his
follyes
,
which
truly
are
so
many
in
this
Controuersy
,
that
they
would
require
more
tyme
,
&
labour
then
were
fit
to
be
bestowed
vpon
such
an
idle
companion
;
besides
that
they
are
commonly
so
connected
with
his
fraudes
,
and
so
euident
of
themselues
,
that
the
discreet
Reader
will
easily
note
many
of
thē
without
any
labour
●f
myne
to
decypher
them
,
or
to
put
him
in
mind
thereof
.
2.
Well
then
I
will
beginne
with
his
sixt
Chapter
,
which
beginneth
his
second
part
about
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
(
as
he
himselfe
intytleth
it
.
)
And
because
my
first
question
debated
with
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
concerning
that
matter
,
is
about
the
word
Inuocation
,
whether
it
belong
to
God
alone
(
as
my
Lord
affirmeth
it
to
do
)
or
may
be
applyed
also
to
Saints
;
I
will
examine
M.
Collins
his
frauds
in
answer
to
my
Adioynder
touching
that
point
.
3.
It
is
therfore
to
be
vnderstood
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
labouring
to
proue
that
none
can
be
inuocated
but
God
,
sayth
:
Terret
nos
Apostolus
&c
the
Apostle
doth
terrify
vs
,
when
he
asketh
this
question
Rom.
10.
Quomodo
inuocabunt
,
in
quem
non
crediderunt
?
How
shal
they
inuocat
him
,
in
whom
they
beleeued
not
?
Vpon
which
text
he
inferreth
that
we
may
inuocate
none
but
him
in
whome
we
beleeue
,
which
is
God
alone
;
wherupon
I
thought
good
in
my
Adioynder
to
explicate
that
text
,
and
to
that
end
,
I
sayd
thus
,
pag
.
213.
num
.
3.
4.
A
man
may
wonder
how
this
great
Doctor
could
so
grossely
erre
in
a
matter
so
euident
as
this
,
seeing
that
the
words
of
the
Apostle
immediatly
going
before
,
do
manifestly
shew
,
that
he
speaketh
there
of
an
Inuocation
due
to
God
alone
,
as
to
our
chiefe
Lord
;
which
kind
of
Inuocation
is
not
communicable
to
creatures
;
and
therfore
the
Apostle
hauing
sayd
,
that
God
is
Dominus
omnium
&c.
the
Lord
of
all
,
&
rich
,
or
bountifull
,
towardes
all
that
inuocate
him
,
he
confirmeth
it
with
the
saying
of
the
Prophet
,
Omnis
qui
inuocauerit
nomen
Domini
saluus
erit
,
euery
one
that
shall
inuocate
the
name
of
our
Lord
,
shal
be
saued
.
And
then
he
addeth
:
Quomodo
inuocabunt
in
quem
non
crediderunt
?
how
shal
they
inuocate
him
,
in
whome
they
haue
not
belieued
?
as
who
would
say
,
how
can
they
inuocate
him
,
of
whome
the
Prophet
speaketh
,
him
,
that
is
Dominus
omnium
,
the
Lord
of
all
,
except
they
belieue
in
him
,
that
is
to
say
,
except
they
beleeue
him
to
be
their
Lord
,
and
Creator
,
whereby
he
doth
not
signify
that
none
but
God
can
be
inuocated
in
any
sort
;
but
that
we
cannot
inuocate
God
,
as
our
Lord
,
and
our
God
,
except
we
belieue
him
so
to
be
.
5.
Thus
sayd
I
,
and
as
I
hope
,
this
my
explication
of
S.
Pauls
wordes
is
so
naturall
,
proper
,
and
conforme
to
the
circumstances
of
the
text
,
that
it
cannot
with
reason
be
reiected
.
And
this
M.
Collins
saw
so
well
(
as
it
seemeth
)
that
he
thoght
best
to
practise
his
ordinary
fraud
in
dissembling
it
wholy
,
&
therfor
not
making
so
much
as
any
mention
of
it
(
as
any
way
controuerted
betwixt
my
Lord
and
me
)
he
applyeth
and
vrgeth
it
in
the
same
sense
that
my
Lord
doth
,
taking
occasion
to
wrangle
with
me
about
another
question
,
to
wit
,
whether
we
may
be
sayd
to
belieue
in
Saints
(
which
I
will
debate
with
him
anone
)
&
because
I
affirmd
that
it
might
be
truly
sayd
,
that
we
beleeue
in
Saints
in
some
sort
,
and
sense
,
he
alleadgeth
that
text
of
S.
Paul
,
vrging
the
generality
of
it
,
and
expounding
,
Quomodo
inuocabunt
in
quem
,
that
is
,
sayth
he
,
in
quemcumque
non
crediderunt
,
how
shall
they
call
vpon
him
,
in
whomesoeuer
they
haue
not
beleeued
:
which
interpretation
of
his
,
that
other
of
myne
in
my
Adioynder
(
gathered
and
vrged
by
me
out
of
the
circumstances
of
the
place
)
doth
vtterly
ouerthrow
,
and
therefore
ought
to
haue
beene
answered
&
confuted
by
him
,
before
he
grounded
any
arguments
or
reasons
,
vpon
his
owne
exposition
,
being
no
other
but
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
,
which
I
impugned
,
and
confuted
by
myne
.
6.
Furthermore
I
proued
also
afterwards
out
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
himself
that
the
word
inuocation
may
be
applyed
to
creatures
;
for
he
sayth
pag
.
45.
§
.
locus
autem
.
That
poscereà
sanctis
auxilium
propriè
inuocare
est
,
to
aske
help
of
Saints
is
properly
to
inuocate
them
;
whereupon
I
sayd
in
my
Adioynder
thus
pag
.
215.
num
.
6.
according
to
this
interpretation
of
his
,
we
do
properly
inuocate
al
those
of
whome
we
craue
help
,
and
succour
,
which
we
lawfully
craue
,
not
only
of
God
,
but
also
of
those
who
by
the
ordinance
of
God
may
,
an
do
lawfully
help
vs
,
as
Angells
,
Saints
,
and
men
do
:
whereupon
it
followeth
that
we
may
lawfully
demaund
their
help
,
and
consequently
inuocate
them
,
according
to
M.
Andrewes
his
owne
interpretation
;
whereby
it
appeareth
that
he
hath
not
only
very
idely
laboured
to
fright
vs
with
his
terrible
Text
,
but
also
fondly
contradicted
himself
.
Thus
sayd
I
,
in
my
Adioynder
.
7.
And
now
I
make
no
doubt
,
but
that
thou
wilt
thinke
good
Reader
,
that
M.
Collins
ought
in
reason
to
haue
taken
some
notice
of
this
,
aswell
to
iustify
his
owne
,
&
my
Lords
application
of
the
word
Inuocation
to
God
alone
,
(
which
heere
you
see
is
disproued
by
my
Lords
own
doctrin
)
as
also
to
deliuer
my
Lord
from
the
note
of
contradiction
wherewith
I
charged
him
.
But
he
dissembleth
all
this
,
albeit
he
sayth
somewhat
(
as
idely
as
he
is
wont
)
to
the
paragraffs
that
immediatly
go
before
and
after
,
to
wit
,
to
the
fifth
,
and
seauenth
,
wheras
this
,
which
I
haue
now
cyted
,
is
in
the
sixt
;
so
as
he
cannot
be
excused
neither
from
a
fraudulent
dissimulation
of
my
Text
,
nor
from
treachery
to
my
Lord
,
for
leauing
him
in
the
lurch
vndefended
,
being
charged
with
a
flatte
Contradiction
.
8.
But
now
let
vs
heare
how
he
iugleth
touching
the
fayth
or
beliefe
which
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
in
Saints
.
First
then
he
sayth
,
that
I
acknowledge
the
inuocation
of
Saints
(
but
not
of
God
)
to
be
possible
without
sayth
in
them
,
and
yet
he
taketh
exception
to
it
,
because
by
that
distinction
,
at
least
(
sayth
he
)
a
man
might
inuocate
God
though
not
as
the
Creator
of
heauen
and
earth
,
yet
as
some
Saint
,
or
demy-God
;
which
how
false
it
is
,
&
how
farre
from
my
meaning
,
you
shal
see
by
my
owne
words
after
a
whyle
:
in
the
meane
tyme
he
proceedeth
,
and
sayth
that
afterwards
,
I
eat
my
word
,
and
allow
fayth
in
Saints
themselues
;
and
albeit
he
confesseth
that
I
qualify
it
,
saying
in
some
sort
,
yet
he
styleth
it
an
egregious
blasphemy
,
&
produceth
diuers
places
of
holy
scripture
and
Fathers
to
proue
that
there
can
be
no
fayth
but
in
god
;
which
how
little
it
proueth
against
me
,
you
shall
now
see
,
by
my
own
text
,
which
he
fraudently
concealeth
,
and
belyeth
egregiously
.
9.
Thus
then
I
said
in
my
Adioynder
,
touching
this
poynt
pag
.
214.
num
.
4.
This
doth
not
contradict
the
inuocation
of
Saints
in
another
Respect
,
to
wit
,
not
as
Gods
,
but
as
the
seruants
of
God
,
whom
he
glorifieth
,
and
by
whose
intercession
,
and
mediation
he
bestoweth
graces
,
and
fauours
vpon
men
:
in
which
sense
,
yt
may
also
be
truly
said
,
that
we
cannot
inuocate
them
,
or
craue
their
prayers
,
except
we
do
in
some
sort
beleeue
in
them
(
I
meane
)
so
farr
forth
as
we
inuocate
them
,
that
is
to
say
,
except
we
beleeue
them
to
be
Gods
seruants
,
and
that
we
haue
also
confidence
in
them
,
as
in
those
who
by
gods
goodnes
may
help
vs.
So
as
a
fayth
,
&
beleife
in
saints
is
necessary
for
the
inuocation
of
them
,
though
yt
ys
not
the
fayth
that
we
haue
in
God
,
as
in
our
cheif
Lord
and
Creator
.
And
that
we
may
haue
fayth
in
Saints
M.
Andrews
may
learne
in
the
Apostle
himself
,
who
commendeth
the
charity
,
and
fayth
which
Philemon
had
in
domino
Iesu
&
in
omnes
sanctos
,
in
our
Lord
Iesus
,
and
in
all
saynts
;
vpon
which
words
S.
Hierome
in
his
Commentary
vpon
that
Epistle
discourseth
amply
,
prouing
that
wee
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
.
Thus
said
I
in
my
Adioynder
.
10.
Now
then
herein
yt
is
euident
,
first
that
I
do
distinguish
clerely
betwixt
the
fayth
that
we
haue
in
God
(
as
our
Lord
and
Creatour
)
and
in
Saints
,
as
his
seruants
(
who
by
his
permission
and
ordinance
,
may
help
and
releiue
vs
)
and
therefore
I
say
,
that
we
may
beleeue
,
and
confide
in
them
,
in
some
sort
.
And
this
is
most
true
,
not
only
of
Saynts
,
but
also
of
men
.
For
who
wilbe
so
mad
to
demaund
help
or
releife
at
any
mans
hands
,
who
he
doth
not
beleiue
,
may
and
will
help
him
?
And
this
also
I
do
say
expresly
,
is
not
the
fayth
,
and
beleife
which
wee
haue
in
God
,
as
our
Lord
and
Creatour
,
because
wee
do
not
acknowledge
the
Saynts
so
to
be
;
wherby
you
see
how
friuolous
,
and
vayne
the
exception
is
which
he
taketh
to
my
assertion
,
when
he
sayth
,
that
by
my
distinction
a
man
may
inuocate
God
,
at
least
,
as
some
Saynt
or
demy-God
,
though
not
as
Creatour
of
heauen
and
earth
;
whereas
I
doe
expressely
affirme
,
that
aswell
Inuocation
,
as
Fayth
is
due
to
God
in
a
supreme
,
and
peculiar
manner
,
not
communicable
to
any
creatures
,
to
wit
,
as
vniuersall
Lord
,
and
Creatour
of
all
,
which
therefore
cannot
be
so
extenuated
as
to
be
the
honour
of
a
Saint
,
or
demy-God
.
11.
Secondly
it
appeareth
that
the
texts
of
holy
scripture
and
the
places
of
the
ancient
Fathers
which
he
bringeth
to
proue
,
that
fayth
can
haue
no
other
obiect
but
God
,
do
proue
nothing
against
me
,
who
do
clearely
distinguish
betwixt
fayth
in
God
,
and
fayth
in
Saints
;
wherof
the
former
is
properly
fayth
,
hauing
only
Almighty
God
for
obiect
,
as
he
is
prima
veritas
;
whereas
the
fayth
in
Saints
,
I
sayd
is
fayth
in
some
sort
,
implying
only
a
beleif
and
confidence
,
that
they
may
help
vs
by
the
goodnes
of
God
,
whose
seruants
they
are
.
And
therfore
yt
is
manifest
,
that
he
hath
abused
me
notably
,
not
only
in
concealing
and
dissembling
my
discourse
,
but
also
in
misconstruing
,
and
peruerting
it
most
maliciously
&
arguing
against
his
owne
false
sense
,
and
construction
of
it
,
as
if
it
were
myne
,
as
you
haue
seene
him
doe
many
tymes
heretofore
,
and
shall
see
euen
now
againe
in
his
next
Answer
to
the
instance
which
I
brought
out
of
S.
Paul
to
Philemon
,
and
S.
Hieromes
exposition
therof
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
226.
num
.
3.
12.
He
belyes
S.
Hieromes
commentary
vpon
the
Epistle
to
Philemon
,
who
speakes
of
no
fayth
to
be
reposed
in
Saints
,
but
credence
giuen
to
their
doctrine
only
.
So
he
,
belying
S.
Hierome
manifestly
in
two
things
(
besides
his
lye
touching
me
,
when
he
sayth
,
that
I
bely
S.
Hieromes
Commentary
.
)
For
S.
Hierome
expounding
those
words
of
S.
Paul
to
Philemon
,
audiens
charitatem
tuam
&
fidem
quam
habes
in
Domino
Iesu
,
&
omnes
sanctos
eius
&c.
saith
,
that
there
is
no
difficulty
to
interpret
that
which
S.
Paul
said
concerning
Philemons
Charity
,
which
he
had
in
Christ
Iesus
,
and
in
all
his
Saints
;
but
that
the
difficulty
consisted
in
the
interpretation
of
that
which
belongeth
to
his
Fayth
in
Christ
,
and
in
his
Saynts
,
and
therefore
he
saith
thus
.
13.
Non
hoc
quaeritur
,
quomodo
camdem
fidem
in
Christo
Iesu
habere
quis
possit
,
&
in
Sanctos
eius
,
nor
the
question
is
how
a
man
may
haue
the
same
faith
in
Christ
Iesus
,
&
his
Saints
:
wherein
I
must
desire
M.
Collins
to
note
by
the
way
,
that
S.
Hierome
makes
the
question
heere
not
of
some
kind
of
fayth
,
or
of
fayth
in
some
sort
,
that
may
be
had
in
Saints
(
as
I
spake
reseruedly
)
but
of
the
same
fayth
,
which
we
haue
in
Christ
,
how
that
may
be
also
had
in
Saints
,
to
which
purpose
S.
Hierome
also
sayth
further
thus
:
Ad
expositionem
huius
loci
&c.
For
the
exposition
of
this
place
,
let
vs
take
an
example
out
of
Exodus
,
Credidit
populus
Deo
&
Moysi
seruo
eius
;
vna
atque
eadem
credulitas
in
Moysen
refertur
,
&
in
Deum
,
the
people
belieued
God
and
Moyses
his
seruant
;
one
and
the
selfe
same
credulity
or
fayth
is
referred
to
Moyses
,
and
to
God
,
vt
populus
qui
credebat
in
Dominum
,
aeque
credidisse
dicatur
in
seruum
,
that
the
people
which
belieued
in
the
Lord
,
may
be
sayd
to
haue
belieued
aswel
in
the
seruant
;
hoc
autem
non
solum
in
Moyse
&c.
and
this
to
be
vnderstood
,
not
only
in
Mo●ses
,
but
in
al
his
Saints
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Hierome
.
14.
Wherby
it
is
as
cleare
as
the
Sunne
,
that
M.
Collins
belyeth
him
grossely
,
in
saying
that
he
speakes
of
no
fayth
to
be
reposed
in
Saints
,
when
he
speaketh
not
only
of
some
fayth
,
but
also
of
the
same
fayth
,
that
we
haue
in
God
,
and
in
Christ
Iesus
;
and
albeit
he
explicateth
how
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
,
yet
he
doth
not
deny
that
is
the
same
fayth
which
we
haue
in
God
,
but
confirmeth
it
(
not
onely
with
that
place
of
Exodus
before
mentioned
but
also
)
by
the
like
consideration
to
be
had
of
Charity
,
or
loue
to
the
Saints
,
or
seruants
of
God
(
which
is
the
same
loue
with
the
which
we
loue
God
,
because
we
loue
them
for
God
)
and
therefore
he
sayth
,
that
non
est
in
Deum
perfecta
dilectio
&
fides
,
quae
in
ministres
eius
odio
&
infidelitate
tenuatur
,
the
loue
and
fayth
in
God
,
is
not
perfect
,
which
is
extenuated
with
hatred
,
and
infidelity
towards
his
seruants
;
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
as
we
loue
Gods
seruants
,
for
the
loue
we
beare
to
God
,
so
also
we
may
be
sayd
to
belieue
in
Gods
seruants
,
for
the
fayth
we
haue
in
God
;
&
as
we
do
not
loue
God
,
if
we
loue
not
his
seruants
,
so
also
it
may
be
sayd
,
that
we
do
not
belieue
in
God
,
when
we
doe
not
belieue
in
his
seruants
.
15.
And
although
he
also
explicateth
this
,
yet
his
explication
doth
further
confirme
,
that
it
is
the
same
fayth
which
we
haue
in
God
;
for
thus
he
sayth
:
Hoc
quod
dico
tale
est
&c.
This
which
I
say
,
is
in
this
manner
,
or
thus
to
be
vnderstood
.
Doth
a
man
belieue
in
God
the
Creatour
?
He
cannot
belieue
in
him
except
he
first
belieue
that
all
thinges
which
are
written
in
the
Scriptures
of
his
Saints
,
are
true
.
So
he
.
And
then
exemplifyeth
the
same
by
the
Creation
of
Adam
and
Eue
,
by
the
translation
of
Enoch
,
by
the
deliuery
of
Noë
from
the
deluge
,
by
the
departure
of
Abraham
from
his
countrey
and
kindred
,
by
the
oblation
of
Isaac
,
and
many
other
particuler
historyes
,
in
the
bookes
of
the
Iudges
,
and
Kinges
,
and
concludeth
thus
:
Haec
&
caetera
quae
de
Sanctis
scripta
sunt
nisi
quis
vniuersa
crediderit
&c.
Except
a
man
belieue
al
this
,
and
all
the
other
thinges
which
are
written
of
the
Saints
,
he
cannot
belieue
in
the
God
of
Saints
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Hierome
,
and
the
reason
heerof
is
,
because
God
,
who
is
Verity
it selfe
,
&
the
Author
of
the
Scriptures
,
is
the
obiect
of
our
fayth
,
and
therefore
he
that
doth
not
belieue
what
God
hath
reuealed
in
his
Scriptures
concerning
his
Saints
,
doth
not
belieue
in
God
.
16.
And
this
also
S.
Hierome
doth
yet
further
confirme
by
the
sanctity
which
is
in
God
,
and
in
his
seruants
,
affirming
it
to
be
candem
sanctitatem
,
the
selfe
same
sanctity
(
meaning
no
doubt
that
our
sanctity
is
a
participation
of
the
diuine
sanctity
)
and
then
he
sayth
finally
of
Philemon
:
Non
putemus
leuem
esse
Philemonis
praedicationem
&c.
Let
vs
not
thinke
,
that
it
is
a
light
,
or
small
praise
of
Philemon
,
si
eamdem
habet
Sanctos
fidem
,
quam
&
in
Deum
,
if
he
had
the
same
fayth
in
the
Saints
of
holy
men
,
which
he
had
in
God
.
So
he
.
Loe
then
how
cleare
it
is
,
that
S.
Hierome
teacheth
expresly
,
that
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
,
not
onely
some
kind
of
fayth
in
Saints
,
but
also
the
same
fayth
that
we
haue
in
God
,
wherein
also
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
there
is
not
so
much
as
one
word
of
belieuing
the
doctrine
of
Saints
,
whereof
M.
Collins
sayth
S.
Hierome
speaketh
only
,
albeit
afterwards
he
is
better
aduised
,
saying
that
S.
Hierome
o●ly
meant
that
the
historyes
which
went
of
the
Saints
in
Scripture
were
to
be
belieued
,
and
credited
.
And
if
S.
Hierome
meant
so
,
yea
,
and
only
so
,
then
truly
he
meant
not
(
as
M.
Collins
sayd
before
)
only
that
credence
is
to
be
giuen
to
the
doctrine
of
the
Saints
,
for
he
could
not
mean
them
both
,
and
yet
but
one
of
them
only
,
and
much
lesse
both
this
only
,
&
that
only
;
so
as
we
shall
haue
some
what
a
do
to
agree
this
poore
fellow
with
himselfe
,
especially
seeing
,
that
hauing
sayd
in
his
text
(
as
you
haue
heard
)
that
S.
Hierome
meant
only
,
that
credence
is
to
be
giuen
to
the
doctrine
of
the
Saints
,
he
contradicteth
the
same
with
a
marginall
note
iust
ouer
against
it
,
contayning
some
part
of
S.
Hieroms
text
,
set
down
by
me
before
,
signifying
that
a
man
cannot
belieue
in
God
the
Creatour
,
except
he
belieue
that
those
thinges
are
true
which
are
written
in
Scripture
of
the
Saints
,
as
of
the
creation
of
Adam
,
and
Eue
&c.
17.
Whereby
it
is
manifest
euen
by
S.
Hieromes
owne
wordes
,
that
his
only
meaning
was
not
,
that
credence
should
be
giuen
to
the
doctrine
of
Saints
:
for
put
the
case
he
had
sayd
(
as
he
doth
not
any
where
)
that
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
by
fayth
in
Saints
,
that
their
doctrine
is
to
be
belieued
,
yet
it
could
not
be
vnderstood
,
that
he
meant
so
only
,
because
he
sayth
expresly
that
he
meant
it
of
credence
to
be
giuen
to
the
verity
of
the
Scriptures
concerning
Saints
:
neuerthelesse
M.
Collins
,
concludeth
his
note
in
the
margent
,
with
this
question
to
me
,
Wher
is
conscience
now
M.
F.
T
?
wheras
I
may
rather
aske
him
,
Where
is
both
conscience
,
and
wit
now
M.
Collins
?
For
truely
if
he
had
either
of
both
,
he
would
not
contradict
his
text
with
his
marginall
note
,
and
besides
make
no
lesse
then
three
notable
lyes
,
within
the
space
of
three
lines
.
18.
For
first
,
wheras
he
sayth
,
that
I
belyed
S.
Hieromes
commentary
in
my
Adioynder
,
you
see
how
false
it
is
,
seeing
all
that
I
say
of
S.
Hierome
is
,
that
he
discourseth
amply
vpon
S.
Pauls
wordes
,
prouing
that
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
,
which
is
most
true
,
as
you
haue
seene
;
for
he
teacheth
not
only
that
we
may
haue
fayth
in
them
,
but
also
the
same
fayth
,
which
we
haue
in
Christ
;
and
what
blasphemy
would
this
haue
seemed
to
M.
Collins
,
if
I
had
sayd
it
,
seeing
that
he
accounteth
it
an
egregious
blasphemy
in
me
to
say
only
,
that
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
in
some
sort
,
which
I
also
explicated
immediatly
to
consist
in
a
beliefe
,
and
confidence
that
they
may
help
vs
(
as
the
seruants
of
God
)
and
I
added
further
,
that
this
is
not
the
fayth
,
which
we
haue
in
God
,
as
in
our
Lord
,
and
Creator
;
besides
that
,
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
I
do
not
alleadge
S.
Hierome
to
proue
or
confirme
my
explication
of
the
manner
,
how
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
,
because
I
knew
full
well
,
that
it
may
be
sayd
in
diuers
respects
(
as
it
may
appeare
by
the
diuers
expositions
of
the
Apostles
wordes
to
Philemon
,
&
M.
Collins
himselfe
setteth
down
one
out
of
Haymo
different
from
that
of
S.
Hierome
;
)
but
I
affirmed
only
that
S.
Hierome
proueth
amply
out
of
S.
Pauls
words
to
Philemon
,
that
we
may
be
sayd
to
haue
fayth
in
Saints
,
which
you
see
is
so
true
&
euident
,
that
it
is
extreme
impudency
in
M.
Collins
to
deny
it
;
and
therefore
I
hope
it
may
passe
for
a
notable
lye
,
that
he
chargeth
me
to
haue
belyed
S.
Hieromes
Commentary
.
19.
His
second
lye
is
,
in
saying
that
S.
Hierome
speaks
of
no
fayth
to
be
reposed
in
Saints
,
wheras
he
speaketh
expresly
and
amply
of
some
fayth
,
yea
of
the
same
fayth
we
haue
in
Christ
.
20.
His
third
lye
is
,
that
he
affirmeth
that
S.
Hierome
speakes
only
of
credence
to
be
giuen
to
the
doctrine
of
Saints
,
whereas
he
speaketh
not
one
word
of
it
,
and
much
lesse
only
of
it
.
And
now
add
heerto
his
contradiction
of
himselfe
in
affirming
that
S.
Hierome
speaketh
of
two
seuerall
thinges
with
an
only
to
both
(
which
cannot
possibly
be
true
of
both
;
for
if
he
speake
only
of
the
one
,
the
other
must
needs
be
excluded
,
)
let
this
,
I
say
,
be
added
to
his
three
lyes
,
and
to
his
ordinary
dissimulation
,
and
false
construction
of
my
text
,
and
it
wil
be
euident
that
he
hath
neither
conscience
,
shame
,
nor
wit
,
in
so
much
that
if
he
vseth
to
talke
,
no
more
wisely
then
he
writeth
,
it
may
be
wondred
that
some
body
hath
not
begged
him
ere
this
to
get
his
liuings
,
which
they
say
are
great
;
and
not
vnlike
,
for
as
the
old
Prouerbe
sayth
,
fortuna
fauet
fatuis
:
but
this
shall
suffice
for
this
point
,
and
now
to
proceed
.
21.
M.
Collins
doth
admonish
vs
in
the
title
of
his
sixth
Chapter
,
about
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
,
that
the
Authorityes
of
the
Fathers
of
the
first
and
second
rancke
(
according
to
the
Bishops
accurate
diuision
of
the
confused
huddle
brought
by
the
Cardinall
)
are
examined
(
for
so
speaketh
very
accuratly
and
pretily
fine
M.
Collins
)
&
therfore
to
the
end
you
may
know
,
what
the
accurate
diuision
of
the
Cardinalls
confused
huddle
is
,
and
what
he
meaneth
by
the
first
&
second
Ranke
of
Fathers
;
you
shal
vnderstand
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
vndertaking
to
answere
the
places
of
the
Fathers
alleadged
by
Cardinall
Bellarmine
touching
the
inuocation
of
Saints
,
deuideth
them
into
three
ranks
Respons
.
ad
Apolog
.
pag
.
39.
§
.
Patrum
.
The
first
sayth
he
,
is
of
those
Fathers
,
qui
verè
Patres
,
sed
non
verè
citantur
,
are
truly
Fathers
,
but
not
truly
cited
.
The
second
of
those
,
qui
verè
citantur
,
sed
suspectae
fidei
,
are
truly
cited
,
but
of
no
sound
credit
.
And
the
third
of
those
,
qui
&
verè
citantur
,
sed
nihil
ad
rem
,
which
are
truely
Fathers
,
and
also
are
truly
cyted
,
but
nothing
to
the
purpose
.
22.
Thus
indeed
sayth
my
Lord
of
Winchester
more
accurately
(
to
vse
M.
Collins
his
fine
word
)
then
truly
,
as
I
haue
made
it
euident
inough
in
my
Adioynder
,
concerning
all
the
Cardinalls
allegations
,
notwithstanding
all
the
false
,
and
fraudulent
endeauours
eyther
of
my
Lord
himselfe
in
his
glosses
,
and
interpretations
of
the
sayd
places
,
or
of
his
Champion
M.
Collins
in
defence
of
his
Lordship
,
wherof
I
dare
remit
the
Iudgment
to
any
indifferent
and
learned
Reader
,
that
shal
read
my
Adioynder
,
and
compare
it
with
his
Answere
,
and
not
take
my
wordes
and
sense
,
as
he
doth
deceiptfully
giue
them
,
by
patches
,
and
snatches
,
neuer
laying
downe
my
whole
context
,
whereby
the
force
of
my
answers
,
and
arguments
are
neuer
fully
or
truly
vnderstood
,
as
it
hath
sufficiently
appeared
hitherto
through
out
the
precedent
Chapters
,
and
will
appeare
no
lesse
clearely
in
this
,
by
the
examination
of
his
answers
to
such
places
of
the
Fathers
,
as
I
haue
alleadged
in
defence
of
the
Cardinall
,
wherof
neuertheles
I
will
examine
only
such
as
he
hath
gone
about
to
answere
with
some
notorious
&
inexcusable
fraud
,
corruption
,
or
lye
;
and
will
omit
to
discouer
,
and
answere
innumerable
foole●yes
and
impertinencyes
,
as
wel
in
those
which
I
shall
examine
,
as
in
the
rest
which
I
shall
leaue
vntouched
;
for
otherwise
I
should
make
a
huge
volume
,
&
tyre
both
the
Reader
and
my selfe
.
23.
In
the
first
rancke
of
the
Fathers
,
which
my
Lord
of
Wincester
sayth
,
are
truly
Fathers
,
but
not
truly
cyted
,
the
first
was
S.
Basil
,
out
of
whose
oration
vpon
the
40.
Martyrs
,
the
Cardinall
cyted
a
most
cleare
,
&
pregnant
place
for
the
proofe
of
prayer
to
Saints
,
which
my
Lord
of
Winchester
chargeth
the
Cardinall
to
haue
alleadged
falsly
and
corruptly
,
because
there
is
some
difference
in
a
word
or
two
,
betwixt
the
Greek
and
the
Cardinalls
Latin
text
;
where
as
I
haue
shewed
amply
in
my
Adioynder
,
not
only
that
the
Cardinall
cited
truly
,
and
exactly
the
words
of
the
latin
translation
,
but
also
,
that
the
Latyn
expresseth
fully
the
sense
of
the
Greek
,
though
the
words
do
differ
;
and
for
the
confirmation
thereof
,
and
the
proofe
that
S.
Basill
did
beleeue
and
clearely
teach
our
Catholick
doctrine
,
concerning
the
inuocation
of
Saints
,
I
alledged
another
place
of
S.
Basill
out
of
an
oration
of
his
made
in
the
feast
of
another
holy
Martyr
,
to
wit
S.
Mammas
,
whereof
I
do
meane
now
to
examine
the
Answere
of
M.
Collyns
.
And
because
he
setteth
not
downe
aboue
two
words
of
my
text
(
to
the
end
his
false
glosse
theron
might
seeme
the
more
probable
)
I
must
perforce
put
my
Reader
to
the
paynes
,
to
read
what
I
haue
cited
,
and
pressed
at
large
out
of
S.
Basill
in
my
Adioynder
touching
that
matter
.
Thus
then
I
said
pag
.
223.
num
.
20.
24.
And
because
M.
Andrews
may
perhaps
desire
some
further
proofe
that
yt
was
the
Custome
in
S.
Basills
tyme
to
pray
to
Martyrs
,
yea
to
inuocate
them
(
for
without
that
word
there
is
no
bargayn
with
M.
Andrewes
)
let
vs
heare
what
S.
Basil
sayth
of
another
holy
Martyr
,
to
wit
,
S.
Mummas
,
vpon
whome
he
made
also
another
oration
and
sayth
,
as
followeth
,
Memores
estote
martyris
quotquot
&c.
Be
ye
myndfull
of
the
Martyr
as
many
of
you
,
as
haue
enioyed
him
in
your
sleepe
(
he
meaneth
by
some
vision
,
or
apparition
)
as
many
as
haue
euen
in
this
place
had
his
help
,
to
pray
for
you
;
or
whomesoeuer
(
nomine
aduocatus
)
he
,
being
called
vpon
by
name
,
hath
assisted
in
his
actions
,
or
works
;
as
many
as
he
hath
reduced
to
the
right
way
when
they
went
astray
;
as
many
as
haue
recouered
their
health
by
him
;
to
whomesoeuer
he
hath
restored
their
Children
,
reuiuyng
them
when
they
were
dead
;
and
finally
as
many
of
you
as
haue
had
your
liues
prolonged
by
him
;
gather
all
these
togeather
,
and
contribute
the
same
,
as
yt
were
a
common
shot
to
the
prayse
of
the
Martyr
&c.
25.
Thus
sayth
S.
Basill
,
which
I
haue
the
more
largely
layd
down
,
to
the
end
thou
maist
see
,
good
Reader
,
not
only
what
benefits
the
deuout
Christians
in
S.
Basills
tyme
receiued
by
the
intercession
&
prayer
of
Martyrs
,
but
also
that
this
holy
martyr
of
whom
he
treateth
did
sometyme
appeare
to
men
by
visions
in
their
sleep
,
and
that
men
vsed
to
inuocate
him
in
their
necessities
,
and
thereby
had
his
assistance
;
which
is
euident
euen
in
the
greeke
text
,
where
we
read
,
{αβγδ}
,
that
is
to
say
,
whomsouer
he
(
to
wit
the
Martyr
)
hath
assisted
in
his
works
,
being
called
vpon
by
name
;
which
words
I
hope
M.
Andrews
cannot
deny
to
expresse
a
playn
inuocation
of
the
Martyr
,
&
the
good
effect
(
I
meane
the
help
&
assistance
)
that
followed
therof
.
26.
Besydes
that
,
it
is
also
to
be
considered
heer
that
S.
Basill
doth
speak
not
only
of
assistance
giuen
by
the
holy
martyr
in
the
place
where
his
reliques
were
kept
(
as
when
he
sayth
,
Quotquot
in
hoc
loco
constituti
&c.
as
many
of
you
as
heere
in
this
place
haue
had
his
help
in
your
prayers
)
but
also
of
great
fauours
done
by
him
in
other
places
,
as
namely
to
wandring
men
,
that
had
lost
their
way
&c.
And
therefore
I
would
gladly
know
heere
of
M.
Andrewes
in
what
manner
these
wandring
men
,
or
others
that
were
absent
from
the
monument
and
reliques
of
the
Martyr
,
obtayned
those
fauours
mentioned
by
S.
Basill
;
yea
and
how
they
knew
that
the
martyr
had
fauoured
,
and
●elped
them
,
if
they
had
not
first
inuocated
●im
,
and
prayed
particulerly
vnto
him
;
●or
M.
Andrewes
cannot
say
in
this
case
,
as
●e
said
in
the
former
,
that
because
God
did
●ew
by
miracles
at
the
monuments
of
●e
martyrs
,
that
he
heard
mens
prayers
●ere
,
therefore
men
had
,
and
might
haue
●course
thither
to
pray
to
God
for
help
,
●●t
not
of
the
martyr
himself
;
this
deuice
●ay
cannot
serue
his
turne
.
27.
For
how
did
the
way-fayring
man
(
who
was
far
from
the
monument
of
the
Martyr
,
and
had
lost
his
way
)
know
that
he
was
brought
into
it
agayn
by
the
help
of
the
Martyr
,
but
because
he
had
reposed
speciall
confidence
in
him
,
yea
,
and
recommended
himselfe
particulerly
to
his
prayers
,
and
assistance
?
in
which
respect
S.
Basill
hauing
vsed
that
generall
speach
,
quibusqunque
,
ex
nomine
vocatus
,
adfuit
&c.
to
whomsoeuer
the
Martyr
had
giuen
assistance
,
being
called
vpon
by
name
,
doth
particularize
the
fauors
that
many
had
receiued
by
the
inuocation
of
him
,
saying
that
some
had
beene
reduced
to
their
right
way
,
others
restored
to
their
health
,
others
had
recouered
their
dead
children
,
and
others
againe
obtayned
prolongation
of
life
,
al
which
no
doubt
were
things
wel
known
to
S.
Basils
Auditours
to
haue
hapned
in
that
manner
to
some
or
other
amongst
them
,
for
otherwise
he
would
not
haue
affirmed
the
same
vnto
them
so
confidently
as
he
did
.
28.
This
then
being
so
,
yt
is
euident
by
the
testimony
of
S.
Basill
himselfe
,
that
the
custome
,
and
practise
of
faythfull
and
Catholique
people
in
his
tyme
,
was
to
inuocate
holy
Martyrs
,
&
saints
by
name
,
whereupon
it
followeth
that
the
recourse
which
Saint
Basill
saith
was
ordinary
to
the
40.
Martyrs
,
included
the
inuocation
of
them
,
according
to
the
common
custome
of
that
tyme
.
29.
Thus
farre
are
the
words
of
my
Adioynder
,
which
I
doubt
not
,
good
Reader
but
that
thou
seest
,
to
be
so
pregnant
,
aswell
in
respect
of
S.
Basils
words
,
as
of
my
inference
thereupon
,
that
thou
doest
meruaile
,
and
much
desire
to
see
what
deuise
M.
Collins
will
find
to
answer
it
,
or
to
shift
it
of
.
Thus
then
he
faith
pag
.
235.
num
.
14.
To
your
number
29.
sayth
he
(
but
he
should
say
20.
for
so
it
is
in
my
Adioynder
)
Mammas
was
but
vocatus
,
not
inuocatus
,
nor
aduocatus
,
as
you
translate
it
.
{αβγδ}
saith
S.
Basill
:
&
that
might
be
by
Apostrophe
.
Or
,
as
if
he
should
say
Daniels
God
,
not
inuoking
Daniel
;
so
Mammas
his
God
;
we
name
his
name
,
but
wee
do
not
inuocate
him
as
our
patron
;
only
we
shew
we
consent
in
religion
with
him
,
and
in
our
ioynt
seruice
to
the
common
Lord
.
As
he
that
commaunded
all
men
to
worship
Daniels
God
.
Dan
.
6.26
.
Does
S.
Basil
say
,
that
Mammas
euer
helpt
him
?
I
warrant
you
not
.
what
then
doth
he
els
,
but
euen
take
aduan●age
of
the
honest
peoples
affection
,
towards
the
deceased
Champion
,
to
establish
them
in
the
zeale
of
the
true
God
,
whom
he
serued
and
suffred
for
?
So
he
,
being
very
confident
,
as
it
should
seeme
that
those
who
should
read
this
his
answer
,
shold
neuer
see
the
obiection
in
my
Adioynder
,
I
meane
the
words
of
S.
Basill
alleadged
by
me
,
&
my
explication
thereof
;
for
otherwayes
,
he
would
neuer
haue
beene
so
symple
,
&
shameles
to
make
this
glosse
,
which
S.
Basills
Text
can
by
no
meanes
admit
.
30.
For
how
can
this
deuise
of
the
inuocation
of
Mammas
,
his
God
,
stand
with
the
wordes
of
S.
Basil
{αβγδ}
,
whomesoeuer
he
(
to
wit
Mammas
)
hath
assisted
in
his
workes
being
called
vpon
by
name
?
Is
it
not
cleare
,
that
he
who
gaue
the
assistance
was
called
vpon
by
name
,
or
inuocated
?
in
which
respect
S.
Basil
did
particularize
the
fauours
that
many
receaued
of
the
Martyr
,
aswel
in
thei●
children
,
as
in
their
owne
persons
,
and
aswell
abroad
in
their
iourneyes
,
as
at
home
and
therefore
whereas
M.
Collins
doth
car●
at
my
translation
of
{αβγδ}
,
saying
that
i●
should
be
vocatus
,
not
inuocatus
,
nor
aduocat●●
,
may
well
say
,
that
Nodum
in
scirpo
quaerit
,
h●
makes
a
difficulty
where
there
is
none
,
a●
it
wil
be
euident
by
adding
that
which
h●
craftily
left
out
,
to
wit
,
the
verbe
{αβγδ}
,
which
signifieth
adfuit
,
that
is
to
say
,
assisted
by
his
presence
;
for
what
els
could
be
vnderstood
therby
,
but
that
the
Martyr
did
affoard
his
presence
,
and
assistance
being
by
name
deuoutly
called
vpon
,
or
inuocated
to
that
end
?
Whereby
it
is
most
manifest
,
that
it
was
not
an
inuocation
of
Mammas
his
God
,
but
Mammas
himselfe
,
who
being
called
vpon
by
name
,
gaue
assistance
by
Gods
will
and
ordinance
.
31.
But
then
sayth
M.
Collins
,
Does
S.
Basil
say
,
that
Mammas
euer
helpt
him
?
I
warrant
you
not
.
A
wise
question
truly
,
and
as
wisely
answered
,
with
I
warrant
you
not
.
For
what
if
S.
Basil
did
not
say
,
that
the
Saint
had
helped
him
?
Did
he
therfore
lye
,
when
he
affirmed
it
of
others
?
Could
no
man
be
helped
by
the
Saint
,
if
S.
Basil
were
not
?
or
is
it
credible
,
that
so
graue
a
Father
would
so
seriously
,
and
confidently
haue
spoken
to
the
people
of
such
graces
and
fauours
done
by
the
Saint
to
them
,
if
it
had
not
been
notorious
that
diuers
of
them
had
experienced
the
same
in
themselues
?
for
els
what
could
he
haue
expected
of
them
,
but
that
they
should
haue
laughed
at
him
for
his
paynes
?
This
therefore
may
passe
for
a
solemne
foolery
of
M.
Collins
,
besides
the
egregious
cozenage
of
his
Reader
,
in
concealing
S.
Basils
wordes
,
to
make
his
owne
impertinent
,
and
improbable
glosse
the
more
probable
,
and
currant
;
and
finally
as
I
concluded
in
my
Adioynder
,
so
also
I
conclude
heere
,
that
S.
Basil
approued
,
and
imbraced
our
Catholike
doctrine
concerning
the
inuocation
of
Saints
,
and
that
the
practise
therof
was
common
in
the
Church
in
his
tyme
,
and
by
him
recommended
to
the
people
that
were
vnder
his
charge
and
gouernement
.
32.
But
let
vs
now
passe
further
,
and
see
some
more
of
his
cozening
tricks
in
the
defence
of
another
answere
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
to
the
place
of
S.
Basil
before
mentioned
num
.
23.
alleadged
by
the
Cardinall
out
of
his
Oration
vpon
the
40.
Martyrs
.
And
this
I
will
examine
the
rather
,
because
M.
Collins
chargeth
me
to
haue
shamfully
belyed
the
Councell
of
Gangra
,
concerning
that
matter
:
but
thou
shalt
see
good
Reader
,
that
the
lye
will
light
,
and
lye
so
heauy
on
him
,
that
it
would
vtterly
crush
his
credit
,
if
he
had
any
.
Thus
then
I
said
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
226
num
.
25.
33.
Now
to
say
somewhat
of
his
other
answere
which
I
mentioned
in
the
beginning
he
sayth
,
Aliud
est
narrare
quid
fiat
,
aliud
statuere
quid
faciendum
sit
:
it
is
one
thing
to
declare
what
is
done
,
and
another
thing
to
determine
what
should
be
done
;
giuing
to
vnderstand
that
albeit
S.
Basil
in
the
place
alleadged
by
the
Cardinall
declared
that
men
vsed
in
his
tyme
to
pray
to
Saints
,
yet
the
same
doth
not
suffice
to
proue
it
to
be
lawful
,
except
it
be
approued
by
some
decree
of
S.
Basil
,
&
the
other
Fathers
of
that
tyme
:
to
which
purpose
he
doth
often
inculcate
the
same
,
demaunding
still
some
statute
or
decree
of
the
Fathers
;
as
I
shal
haue
occasion
to
shew
further
heereafter
.
But
heere
I
would
be
glad
to
know
what
kind
of
statute
or
decree
he
would
haue
in
this
question
;
for
if
he
exact
some
decree
of
the
Fathers
assembled
in
a
General
or
Prouinciall
Councell
,
he
flyeth
,
as
I
may
say
,
out
of
the
lists
,
to
another
manner
of
tryall
thē
the
Cardinal
offereth
in
this
place
,
&
then
he
himselfe
seemeth
to
accept
.
Besides
that
he
must
expect
such
decrees
from
the
●omes
of
the
Councels
,
where
they
are
particulerly
related
,
and
not
from
the
workes
of
the
Fathers
,
who
are
not
wont
to
set
them
downe
,
but
vpon
particuler
occasions
,
now
and
then
occurring
.
34.
To
which
purpose
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
there
were
neuer
any
Councells
assembled
,
or
Synodicall
statutes
made
concerning
fayth
,
but
by
reason
of
matters
controuerted
with
publicke
trouble
,
scandal
and
danger
to
the
Church
;
as
the
foure
first
generall
Councells
were
called
by
reason
of
the
heresyes
of
the
Arians
,
Macedonians
,
Nestorians
,
and
Eutychians
,
which
at
those
dayes
did
exceedingly
molest
,
and
scandalize
all
the
East
Church
;
whereas
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
being
then
publikely
,
and
generally
practised
throughout
the
whole
Church
needed
not
to
be
confirmed
by
decrees
of
Synods
,
especially
seeing
it
was
not
expresly
denyed
by
any
at
that
tyme
.
For
albeit
an
abominable
Arian
Heretike
called
Eustachius
did
then
impugne
the
publike
honour
done
to
Saints
,
by
dedicaing
Churches
to
them
,
&
celebrating
their
feasts
(
for
which
cause
a
prouincial
Councell
was
held
at
Gangra
,
where
this
his
heresy
,
togeather
with
diuers
others
of
his
,
was
condemned
,
and
all
those
anathematized
who
did
contemne
the
Temples
,
and
Monuments
of
Martyrs
,
and
the
assemblyes
,
&
sacred
oblations
which
were
made
there
)
yet
because
this
Heretike
did
not
directly
impugne
the
inuocation
of
Saints
,
the
same
was
not
directly
,
and
expresly
confirmed
,
or
mentioned
in
this
Canon
.
35.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adionder
.
And
now
that
you
may
fully
know
the
state
of
the
question
betwixt
him
&
me
in
this
place
and
iudge
therby
the
better
of
his
fraudulent
answere
,
you
shall
vnderstand
,
that
whereas
I
haue
sayd
heere
to
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
that
if
he
exact
a
decree
of
some
generall
,
or
prouinciall
Councell
for
prayer
to
Saints
,
in
S.
Basils
tyme
,
he
runneth
out
of
the
lists
,
to
another
manner
of
tryall
then
the
Cardinall
offereth
;
the
reason
is
,
because
the
Cardinall
vndertooke
only
to
proue
by
the
testimony
of
the
Fathers
of
the
first
400.
or
500.
yeares
,
that
the
fayth
of
the
Protestants
touching
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
,
is
not
the
fayth
of
the
old
Primitiue
Church
.
36.
This
appeareth
euidently
by
the
Cardinals
owne
words
of
his
Apology
pag
.
11.
§
.
Sequitur
,
where
hauing
signifyed
that
his
Maiesty
in
his
Preface
admitted
the
three
Creeds
,
the
4.
first
generall
Councells
and
the
vniforme
doctrine
of
the
first
400.
(
or
as
it
is
in
the
English
copy
500.
yeares
)
he
declareth
that
amongst
other
points
of
Catholike
Religion
,
his
Maiesty
condemneth
prayer
to
Saints
,
and
the
veneration
of
Reliques
,
as
superstitious
:
Whereupon
the
Cardinall
sayth
:
Accipiam
intercessionem
Sanctorum
&c.
I
will
take
in
hand
the
intercession
of
Saints
,
with
the
veneration
of
Reliques
;
which
if
I
can
shew
to
be
approued
by
the
vnanime
consent
of
the
Fathers
of
the
first
400.
or
500.
yeares
,
I
shall
withall
proue
,
that
the
fayth
of
the
King
of
England
is
not
the
fayth
of
the
Primitiue
Church
,
but
the
deuises
,
and
heresies
of
the
late
Innouatours
.
Thus
sayth
the
Cardinall
.
Where
it
is
cleare
,
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
demanding
a
decree
of
the
Fathers
,
for
prayer
to
Saints
,
within
the
first
400.
or
500.
yeares
,
flyeth
from
the
tryall
which
the
Cardinall
offereth
,
and
my
Lord
ought
to
accept
,
and
stand
vnto
,
seeing
his
Maiesty
admitteth
it
,
whom
my
Lord
hath
vndertaken
,
and
is
bound
to
defend
.
37.
This
being
so
,
let
vs
now
see
,
what
M.
Collins
answereth
to
my
Adioynder
in
his
229.
pag
.
and
9.
§
.
wherein
he
iugleth
notably
,
not
only
in
dissembling
my
text
(
which
you
see
is
ordinary
with
him
)
but
also
in
wresting
the
sense
&
substance
of
it
to
far
other
purpose
then
euer
I
meant
it
,
or
can
be
any
way
gathered
of
it
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
of
me
.
He
sayes
,
There
is
no
ordinance
,
or
no
decree
,
but
in
Councells
.
Let
him
bring
them
hardly
then
,
let
him
cyte
the
Councels
.
Are
not
they
Fathers
,
and
multiplyed
Fathers
?
Wil
his
Maiesty
refuse
the
Councells
,
wherin
so
many
speake
as
one
man
,
that
is
content
to
be
ordered
by
the
Fathers
in
singular
,
if
the
authority
be
pregnant
,
&
the
antiquity
sufficient
?
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
.
38.
And
now
iudge
,
good
Reader
,
how
substantially
he
hath
answered
.
I
tell
him
that
there
needed
no
Canons
of
Councels
for
praying
to
saints
at
that
tyme
,
yea
and
that
there
could
be
none
,
because
the
practise
of
it
was
then
vniuersall
,
and
there
had
not
beene
any
such
Controuersy
or
trouble
in
the
Church
about
that
point
,
that
it
might
cause
any
decrees
or
Canons
to
be
made
concerning
the
same
;
&
yet
he
very
grauely
bids
me
bring
thē
hardly
then
.
Besides
that
,
affirming
as
he
doth
,
that
his
Maiesty
is
content
to
be
ordered
by
the
Fathers
in
singular
,
if
their
Authority
be
pregnant
,
and
Antiquity
sufficient
;
he
graunteth
that
which
moued
the
Cardinall
to
produce
the
testimonyes
of
S.
Basil
,
and
other
Fathers
of
the
first
500.
yeares
(
to
wit
because
his
Maiesty
did
admit
them
)
in
which
respect
my
Lord
of
Winchester
was
also
bound
to
stand
vnto
them
,
seeing
he
vndertooke
to
answere
for
his
Maiesty
;
&
therefore
I
had
reason
to
charge
him
to
fly
out
of
the
lists
,
when
he
fled
from
the
testimonyes
of
the
Fathers
,
to
the
decrees
of
Councells
;
but
M.
Collins
hath
thought
best
to
conceale
all
this
,
and
as
though
I
had
sayd
nothing
to
the
purpose
,
vrgeth
me
(
as
my
Lord
did
the
Cardinal
)
to
produce
som
Canons
or
Decrees
.
Can
there
be
greater
iuggling
then
this
?
Yet
this
is
nothing
to
that
which
followeth
.
39.
He
goeth
on
in
the
same
Paragraf
,
saying
thus
of
me
.
But
how
shamefully
does
he
belye
the
Councell
of
Gangra
?
Neither
is
there
any
such
thing
in
the
proeme
there
,
nor
yet
in
the
Canons
.
Only
a
corruption
is
crept
into
the
Proem
,
which
is
nothing
material
neither
,
though
it
wer
graunted
.
See
the
greeke
at
Paris
,
of
Tilius
his
edition
,
see
the
greeke
copies
.
And
is
to
meet
at
Churches
,
or
not
to
shunne
assemblyes
in
Basilicis
Martyrum
,
all
one
with
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
,
now
become
?
Why
should
we
not
rather
thinke
their
priuate
Masse
condemned
vnder
a
Priest
,
&
his
boy
in
the
6
Canon
of
that
Councell
?
Thus
saith
he
,
and
then
goeth
forward
,
most
idly
,
cyting
6.
or
7.
Canons
more
of
that
Councell
,
against
some
other
points
of
the
Catholike
Religion
,
being
stale
obiections
,
which
haue
been
answered
ouer
and
ouer
by
our
writers
,
and
proued
no
way
to
concerne
vs
,
as
he
may
see
in
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
or
any
other
Catholike
Author
,
that
writeth
of
these
Controuersies
;
for
which
cause
I
omit
to
answere
him
concerning
them
,
as
also
because
I
haue
resolued
not
to
deale
in
this
Chapter
with
his
fooleryes
,
and
by-questions
(
as
these
are
)
but
only
to
discouer
his
fraudes
,
falsities
,
and
lyes
.
40.
And
therefore
now
to
come
to
the
discouery
of
this
:
you
haue
seene
heer
first
that
he
doth
not
set
down
any
one
word
of
my
text
concerning
that
Councel
of
Gangra
:
secondly
,
that
because
I
quote
in
the
Margent
the
Proeme
of
that
Councell
,
and
the
20.
Canon
,
he
sayth
,
that
there
is
a
corruption
crept
into
the
Proeme
,
thogh
nothing
materiall
;
and
for
the
proofe
heereof
,
he
posts
vs
ouer
to
Paris
to
see
the
Greek
there
,
without
telling
vs
what
the
corruption
is
,
or
wherein
it
consisteth
.
Lastly
he
insinuateth
that
I
alleadge
this
Councell
to
proue
prayer
to
Saints
,
saying
,
Is
to
meete
in
Churches
,
or
not
shunne
assemblyes
in
Basilicis
Martyrum
,
all
one
with
the
inuocation
of
Saints
now
become
?
So
he
.
And
afterwards
again
more
plainly
:
And
do
they
tell
vs
,
sayth
he
,
of
the
Councell
of
Gangra
,
in
which
there
is
not
one
sillable
,
neither
in
preface
,
nor
bulke
of
praying
to
Saints
?
Thus
sayth
he
,
as
if
I
cyted
it
to
proue
prayer
to
Saints
.
41.
Now
then
let
vs
see
,
who
hath
lyed
shamefully
,
I
or
he
;
I
said
that
the
Fathers
in
that
Councel
did
anathematize
all
those
who
contemned
the
monuments
of
Martyrs
,
and
the
assemblies
,
and
the
sacred
oblations
which
were
made
there
.
This
is
euident
in
the
20.
Canon
which
is
this
:
Si
quis
arrogantia
v●ens
,
&
martyrum
,
congregationes
abhorrens
&
sacra
quae
in
eis
celebrantur
,
&
eorum
memorias
accuset
,
anathema
sit
.
If
any
man
out
of
arogancy
,
and
hatred
to
the
congregations
of
the
Martyrs
(
that
is
to
say
to
the
Assemblyes
,
made
at
the
Tombes
of
Monuments
of
the
Martyrs
)
do
accuse
(
or
condem●e
)
the
holy
rites
which
are
celebrated
there
,
and
the
memoryes
of
them
,
let
him
be
accursed
.
Thus
sayth
that
Canon
,
wherto
M
Collins
taketh
no
exception
,
and
therefore
it
sufficeth
alone
to
iustify
my
assertion
,
and
condemne
him
of
a
monstrous
lye
,
in
saying
,
that
I
do
shamefully
bely
the
Councell
of
Gangra
;
wheras
I
say
no
more
of
it
,
then
that
which
is
found
there
expresly
in
the
20.
Canon
.
And
wheras
he
sayth
that
there
is
no
such
thing
in
the
Pro●me
nor
yet
in
the
Canons
;
if
he
meane
,
by
no
such
thing
,
that
there
is
nothing
there
touching
the
celebration
of
the
feasts
,
&
memoryes
of
Martyrs
(
which
was
all
that
I
affirmed
)
it
is
also
a
lye
,
nolesse
monstrous
then
the
former
.
And
if
he
say
that
he
meant
it
only
of
prayer
to
saints
(
as
that
there
is
no
such
thing
in
the
Councell
)
albeit
he
say
true
in
that
respect
,
yet
he
belyeth
me
shamefully
in
another
,
&
cozeneth
his
Reader
intollerably
,
affirming
that
I
alleadge
that
Councell
to
proue
prayer
to
Saints
,
wheras
I
signify
the
contrary
in
expresse
words
saying
,
that
because
Eustachius
did
not
directly
impugne
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
,
the
same
was
not
directly
confirmed
,
or
mentioned
in
that
Councell
.
Behould
then
what
an
impudent
fellow
this
is
,
who
to
proue
one
lye
in
me
,
maketh
no
lesse
then
two
or
three
himself
,
as
also
you
see
he
did
the
like
before
,
charging
me
most
falsely
to
haue
belyed
Saint
Hieromes
Commentary
,
when
he
himselfe
made
no
lesse
then
three
euident
lyes
within
three
lynes
:
so
as
if
he
come
at
any
tyme
where
there
is
lying
for
the
whetstone
,
it
wil
be
his
infallibly
;
for
I
thinke
he
will
hardly
meet
with
his
match
in
that
faculty
.
42.
But
let
vs
now
proceed
,
and
see
some
more
of
his
legier-de-main
,
&
his
notable
cozenage
,
concerning
a
place
of
Saint
Ephrem
,
alleadged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
against
the
Cardinall
,
and
answered
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
,
which
indeed
I
would
haue
omitted
for
breuityes
sake
,
as
I
do
many
other
things
,
were
it
not
,
that
I
stand
some
way
obliged
to
say
somewhat
vnto
it
,
because
I
promysed
in
my
Adioynder
to
giue
further
satisfaction
,
when
I
should
heare
further
news
from
my
Lord
touching
that
matter
,
which
now
I
haue
heard
by
M.
Collins
,
who
hath
not
only
answered
for
his
Lordship
in
that
poynt
,
after
his
wonted
manner
,
but
also
hath
deliuered
me
a
particuler
message
from
him
touching
my self
,
which
therfore
I
cannot
leaue
vnanswered
.
And
forasmuch
as
M.
Collins
hath
also
here
(
as
he
is
wont
)
dissembled
my
whole
text
,
and
only
picked
out
of
it
heere
and
there
a
word
or
two
,
to
carp
at
,
I
must
be
forced
as
I
haue
been
diuers
tymes
,
to
lay
down
the
words
of
my
Adioynder
,
concerning
so
much
of
this
matter
,
as
I
meane
to
bebate
with
him
,
that
is
,
so
much
as
toucheth
the
fraud
,
that
both
he
and
my
Lord
haue
vsed
therein
.
Thus
then
I
sayd
in
my
Adioynder
Chap.
6.
pag
.
239.
num
.
43.
43.
Now
let
vs
see
what
he
sayth
to
the
second
ranke
of
Fathers
,
which
he
graunteth
to
be
truly
cyted
,
but
not
to
be
of
sound
credit
.
The
first
of
these
is
Saint
Ephram
,
out
of
whom
the
Cardinal
alleadgeth
these
words
:
Precamur
beatissimi
Martyres
&c.
we
beseech
you
most
blessed
Martyrs
,
that
you
will
vouchsafe
to
pray
vnto
our
Lord
for
vs
wretched
sinners
,
that
the
grace
of
Christ
may
come
vnto
vs.
To
this
M.
Andrews
answereth
diuers
wayes
:
first
he
taketh
exception
against
the
translation
;
both
because
the
Author
thereof
was
one
of
ours
(
whose
fidelity
and
credit
he
saith
hath
beene
long
since
cracked
)
and
also
because
the
originall
(
which
is
in
greek
)
was
,
saith
he
,
lately
taken
out
of
a
grot
,
and
therefore
is
fidei
cripticae
,
of
obscure
credit
.
So
it
pleaseth
him
to
make
himselfe
merry
with
the
word
Crypta
,
for
that
Vossius
the
translatour
signifieth
in
his
Epistle
to
the
Reader
in
the
beginning
of
the
first
Tome
that
he
had
a
speciall
help
for
his
translation
,
by
two
very
auncient
manuscripts
or
written
copyes
of
Saint
Ephraems
works
,
which
are
to
be
seene
in
Crypta
ferrata
(
a
famous
monastery
neer
to
Rome
called
commonly
in
Italian
Grotta
ferrata
)
of
which
manuscripts
the
one
was
written
in
the
yeare
of
our
Lord
531.
44.
But
what
cause
had
M.
Andrews
to
iest
at
this
?
Sure
I
am
that
in
the
iudgment
of
any
indifferent
man
,
it
may
serue
for
no
smal
iustification
of
the
translatour
that
he
fortifyeth
his
translation
with
the
authority
of
such
an
auncient
manuscript
,
written
aboue
eleuen
hundred
yeares
ago
,
and
yet
extant
to
be
seene
so
neere
to
Rome
,
where
his
Tomes
were
printed
,
especially
seeing
that
there
is
such
continuall
recourse
,
and
confluence
thither
from
Rome
(
by
reason
of
the
celebrity
of
that
monastery
)
that
he
might
well
think
he
should
quickly
be
discouered
for
an
impudent
,
&
notable
lyar
,
in
case
he
should
faygne
the
same
.
And
therefore
for
his
further
iustification
in
this
poynt
,
he
also
directeth
his
Reader
to
the
very
classe
where
the
said
manuscripts
are
,
to
be
found
in
the
library
of
Grotta
ferrata
,
to
wit
,
vnder
the
title
of
these
Greeke
letters
Ω
.
and
Π
.
Besydes
that
he
declareth
also
further
that
he
conferred
the
same
copyes
with
diuers
others
which
he
saw
,
and
are
yet
to
be
seene
in
the
Vatican
at
Rome
,
and
in
the
library
of
Cardinall
Sforza
.
45.
So
that
these
particularityes
,
being
considered
,
no
man
can
with
any
reason
,
or
without
extreme
malice
,
imagine
any
fraudulent
meaning
in
the
Translatour
,
seeing
he
remitteth
his
translation
to
the
examination
of
so
many
learned
men
,
as
Rome
continually
affoardeth
,
who
might
withall
facility
conuince
him
of
fraude
,
if
he
hah
vsed
any
:
and
therefore
Maister
Andrewes
sheweth
more
malice
,
then
witt
,
in
this
exception
,
as
also
in
that
he
reiecteth
the
translation
,
because
the
Authour
thereof
was
a
Catholique
.
For
albeyt
he
say
;
that
Catholikes
haue
lost
their
credit
in
matters
of
that
kinde
;
yet
I
hope
the
discreet
Reader
(
who
hath
already
seene
by
many
examples
how
little
credit
M.
Andrews
deserueth
)
will
not
easiy
beleiue
him
without
some
further
proofe
then
his
bare
word
.
And
this
it
seemeth
he
himselfe
feareth
,
and
therefore
seeketh
another
shift
in
these
words
:
Longè
aliter
Tom●
primo
germanus
Ephraem
&c.
The
true
Ephraem
in
his
first
Tome
,
(
where
he
prayeth
,
and
doth
not
make
orations
)
saith
farre
otherwayes
,
calling
vpon
God
alone
in
euery
prayer
,
not
so
much
as
naming
any
Saint
,
yea
there
he
speaketh
to
God
in
this
manner
:
Ad
te
.
ad
praeter
te
neminem
orationem
facio
,
to
thee
,
to
none
but
thee
I
make
my
prayer
.
So
he
.
Not
quoting
any
particuler
treatise
,
or
chapter
where
the
words
which
he
cyteth
are
to
be
found
;
which
by
all
likelyhood
he
omitteth
of
purpose
the
better
to
cloak
a
peece
of
cogery
,
which
he
may
be
worthily
suspected
to
haue
vsed
in
this
poynt
.
46.
For
whereas
he
mentioneth
the
first
Tome
of
a
true
Ephraem
,
thou
shalt
vnderstand
,
good
Reader
,
that
there
are
no
other
workes
of
S.
Ephraem
extant
in
Latin
,
but
only
the
three
tomes
aboue
mentioned
set
forth
by
Vossius
,
except
a
little
pamphlet
contayning
a
few
sermons
translated
by
a
Monke
of
Camaldula
which
cannot
deserue
the
name
of
Tome
;
besids
that
,
there
is
not
any
such
prayer
therein
as
he
mentioneth
,
for
ought
I
can
find
.
And
put
the
case
,
he
could
there
shew
the
same
wordes
,
which
he
cyteth
,
yet
they
may
be
so
vnderstood
,
that
they
will
make
nothing
for
his
purpose
.
For
euen
as
Dauid
,
when
he
had
committed
homicide
,
and
sinned
not
only
against
God
,
but
also
against
his
neighbour
,
sayd
neuerthelesse
to
Almighty
God
,
Ti●●
soli
peccaui
,
I
haue
sinned
against
thee
alone
,
because
all
sinne
against
man
doth
finally
redound
to
God
:
euen
so
,
for
as
much
as
all
our
prayer
is
finally
directed
to
God
the
Author
,
and
giuer
of
all
grace
,
and
goodnes
,
we
may
well
say
,
we
pray
to
none
but
to
him
,
albeit
we
vse
therein
the
interuention
and
assistance
of
Angells
,
Saints
,
or
men
,
by
whom
we
also
pray
to
God
,
when
we
craue
,
or
procure
their
prayers
to
him
for
vs.
47.
And
in
this
sense
,
no
doubt
that
manner
of
prayer
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
if
any
such
be
in
S.
Ephraem
,
or
in
any
other
ancient
Father
:
for
otherwise
it
should
contradict
the
custome
of
the
Apostle
,
who
vsed
to
craue
the
prayers
of
the
Romans
,
Ephesians
,
Thessalonians
,
and
others
to
whom
he
wrote
;
as
also
al
good
Christians
are
wont
to
recommend
themselues
to
the
prayers
one
of
another
,
and
are
warranted
so
to
do
by
the
Holy
Scripture
;
so
as
I
shall
need
to
say
no
more
concerning
his
true
Ephraem
,
vntill
he
giue
me
further
newes
by
whom
he
was
translated
,
and
published
,
how
many
Tomes
there
are
of
him
,
and
in
what
part
of
his
first
Tome
those
wordes
which
he
cyteth
are
to
be
found
.
Thus
farre
are
the
wordes
of
my
Adioynder
,
wherin
you
see
I
speake
amply
(
and
probably
also
,
as
I
thinke
)
in
defence
of
the
Latin
edition
,
which
we
haue
out
of
S.
Ephraem
translated
by
Vossius
,
and
deuided
into
three
Tomes
,
vrging
him
withall
to
iustify
his
allegation
of
the
first
Tome
of
his
pretended
true
Ephraem
,
which
I
beseech
thee
,
good
Reader
to
note
wel
,
and
remember
that
thou
maist
the
better
iudge
of
his
answere
,
which
is
this
pag
.
241.
num
22.
48.
Numb
.
46.
You
say
a
few
sermons
of
Ephrem
cannot
deserue
the
name
of
a
Tome
;
yet
{αβγδ}
,
and
resoluit
Tomum
,
or
scidit
Tomum
,
often
in
the
Councells
,
not
for
a
huge
Volum
,
but
what
scrole
soeuer
.
Why
may
not
the
Bishop
speake
after
that
manner
?
Though
you
cannot
de●y
,
that
Ephrems
edition
is
distinguished
by
Tomes
,
as
they
are
properly
so
called
,
vnles
you
be
a
very
stranger
to
the
matter
.
And
giue
vs
leaue
to
suspect
your
Criptik
Authors
of
your
owne
editions
when
we
call
for
Fathers
,
that
is
,
no
bastard
Fathers
to
determine
Controuersies
.
So
he
.
With
more
which
you
shall
heare
anone
.
In
the
meane
tyme
you
see
heere
how
he
iugleth
,
and
cauilleth
about
the
word
Tome
,
whether
it
may
signify
a
little
booke
,
or
a
huge
volume
;
asking
me
why
the
Bishop
may
not
call
a
little
pamphlet
or
booke
,
a
Tome
;
as
if
my
Lord
had
spoken
of
a
Tome
in
that
sense
,
and
that
I
had
quarrelled
with
his
Lordship
for
the
same
:
whereas
you
see
his
Lordshippe
quoted
,
the
first
Tome
of
the
true
Ephraem
,
wherby
he
signifyeth
euidently
,
that
is
was
not
some
single
Pamphelet
,
but
a
worke
that
consisted
of
more
Tomes
then
one
;
els
what
meant
he
by
the
first
Tome
?
in
which
respect
I
sayd
,
that
there
are
not
extant
any
workes
of
Ephraem
in
Latin
,
but
only
the
three
Tomes
translated
by
Vossius
,
except
a
little
pamphlet
of
Sermons
&c.
and
yet
M.
Collins
tells
me
,
that
I
cannot
deny
that
Ephraems
edition
is
distinguished
by
Tomes
,
vnlesse
I
be
a
very
stranger
to
the
matter
.
Do
you
see
then
how
idlely
he
tatleth
,
and
what
strang
newes
he
tells
me
?
to
wit
,
that
Ephraems
works
are
distinguished
by
Tomes
,
as
if
I
doubted
of
it
,
when
I
tould
him
so
expresly
my selfe
,
saying
also
that
there
are
three
Tomes
of
them
,
translated
,
and
set
forth
by
Vossius
?
Do
you
thinke
this
fellow
is
well
in
his
wits
?
49.
But
you
will
say
,
that
he
taketh
exception
to
those
Tomes
,
as
being
cripticae
fidei
.
It
is
true
indeed
,
for
so
he
doth
;
but
why
then
doth
he
not
tell
vs
some
particulers
of
the
true
tomes
of
true
Ephraem
which
my
Lord
quoted
,
and
he
acknowledgeth
?
Why
then
doth
he
not
tell
vs
who
translated
them
,
or
who
set
them
forth
,
or
where
they
were
printed
,
or
where
they
are
to
be
found
,
if
they
be
not
those
of
Vossius
,
which
is
the
matter
in
question
betwixt
my
Lord
and
me
;
for
his
Lordship
cyteth
the
first
Tome
of
a
true
Ephraem
,
and
I
tell
him
that
there
are
none
but
the
three
tomes
set
forth
by
Vossius
,
and
desire
to
heare
newes
of
the
other
if
there
be
any
such
.
And
now
M.
Collins
tells
me
newes
,
of
an
edition
of
Ephraem
distinguished
by
Tomes
,
whereof
he
saith
I
cannot
be
ignorant
:
so
as
by
that
reason
be
meaneth
the
Tomes
set
forth
by
Vossius
,
for
I
tould
him
before
,
and
so
I
tell
him
stil
,
that
I
know
no
other
(
neither
can
he
in
truth
meane
any
other
,
because
there
are
no
other
extant
)
whereupon
it
should
follow
also
that
the
first
tome
which
my
Lord
quoted
should
be
the
first
of
those
three
before
mentioned
;
which
neuerthelesse
,
both
my
Lord
,
and
he
do
reiect
as
being
cripticae
fidei
.
So
as
you
see
how
distractedly
he
talketh
contradicting
himselfe
,
and
my
Lord
,
except
he
can
tell
me
of
some
other
edition
of
S.
Ephraems
works
deuided
into
Tomes
then
that
of
Vossius
,
which
yet
he
neither
doth
,
nor
euer
shallbe
able
to
do
.
50.
But
will
you
see
how
he
defendeth
my
Lord
,
or
rather
how
he
payeth
him
home
,
in
that
which
followeth
:
The
Bishop
(
sayth
he
)
was
not
only
true
in
quoting
Ephrem
,
but
quoted
him
out
of
the
originall
Arabique
that
he
wrote
in
.
Not
in
coggery
therefore
as
you
call
it
,
but
so
much
the
more
to
be
respected
,
and
credited
afore
your
grottae
,
or
criptae
.
So
he
.
And
is
it
so
indeed
M.
Collins
?
Did
the
Bishop
(
as
you
call
him
)
quote
S.
Ephraem
out
of
the
originall
Arabique
wherein
he
wrote
?
Ergo
not
out
of
the
first
tome
of
Ephraem
,
as
his
Lordship
expresly
affirmed
;
for
his
works
are
not
printed
in
the
Arabique
tongue
,
neither
are
there
any
manuscripts
of
them
but
in
Greeke
;
for
ought
I
could
euer
find
or
heare
.
And
wheras
M.
Collins
sayth
that
he
wrote
in
the
Arabique
tongue
,
it
is
more
I
thinke
,
then
he
can
proue
,
or
is
probable
,
seeing
he
was
a
Syrian
borne
,
and
therefore
it
is
most
like
,
that
he
wrote
in
the
Syriacke
tongue
,
although
some
of
his
workes
,
or
perhaps
all
may
haue
beene
translated
into
the
Arabique
tongue
.
But
it
litle
importeth
for
my
Lords
excuse
in
what
language
he
wrote
,
seeing
that
the
allegation
of
the
place
,
euen
out
of
the
Arabique
,
whence
my
Lord
professeth
to
take
it
,
is
fraudulent
aboue
measure
,
as
it
shal
appeare
euen
by
the
Arabique
words
,
which
M.
Collins
setteth
downe
,
giuen
him
by
my
Lord
himselfe
for
his
iustification
in
this
point
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
242.
num
.
25.
51.
You
aske
the
Bishop
who
published
Ephrem
,
how
many
Tomes
of
him
&c.
in
which
matter
we
are
not
scrupulous
to
shape
you
an
answer
to
the
full
,
though
it
were
more
that
you
asked
:
Of
Tomes
before
.
So
he
.
Heere
note
by
the
way
good
Reader
,
what
answere
he
shapeth
me
,
&
how
wel
to
the
ful
,
concerning
the
Tomes
of
Ephraem
,
seeing
that
he
remitteth
me
only
to
that
,
which
he
hath
sayd
of
Tomes
before
,
wherin
how
idly
he
hath
iangled
you
haue
seen
,
so
lately
,
that
I
need
not
repeate
it
,
and
therfor
to
go
on
with
his
text
,
thus
he
saith
further
:
The
wordes
are
these
,
which
willingly
I
would
set
downe
both
in
the
Arabique
,
and
the
Hebrew
,
as
I
haue
receaued
them
from
the
Bishop
,
if
we
had
such
caracters
at
hand
.
But
in
the
Latin
thus
,
both
for
form
,
&
meaning
.
Illaica
we
shaueca
lam
atlabu
.
i
.
Ad
te
&
praeterquam
ad
te
non
facio
orationem
,
in
English
thus
,
for
the
satisfaction
of
euery
Reader
,
your selfe
&
all
,
good
M.
F.
T.
To
thee
and
but
to
thee
to
none
,
I
make
my
prayer
.
The
Bishop
cyted
it
out
of
a
manuscript
,
which
he
keepeth
yet
to
be
seene
vpon
any
occasion
,
called
the
Diurnal
of
the
Maronits
,
a
certaine
kind
of
Monks
in
a
Monastery
on
mount
Sinah
.
Which
booke
was
printed
at
Rome
Anno
1584.
at
the
commandment
of
Gregory
the
13.
by
Dominicus
Basa
in
Syriaque
caracters
,
though
it
be
in
the
Arabicke
tongue
,
vnder
the
name
of
the
prayer
of
S.
Ephrem
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
wherin
truely
he
hath
don
me
a
great
pleasure
;
for
now
knowing
,
where
my
Lord
had
his
text
,
I
shallbe
able
as
I
hope
,
to
shape
his
Lordship
a
better
answere
,
and
more
to
the
full
,
then
M.
Collins
hath
shaped
me
a
little
before
,
concerning
the
tomes
of
Ephraem
.
52.
You
shall
therefore
vnderstand
,
that
albeit
I
know
not
how
my
Lords
text
is
in
his
manuscript
(
which
M.
Collins
sayth
his
Lordship
keepeth
to
shew
vpon
any
occasion
)
yet
sure
I
am
,
that
in
the
booke
,
which
he
calleth
the
Diurnall
of
the
Maronites
,
printed
at
Rome
,
Anno
1584.
I
find
it
farre
otherwise
,
both
in
wordes
and
sense
;
for
whereas
he
alleadgeth
the
Arabique
wordes
thus
:
Illaica
we
shaueca
lam
atlabu
,
the
three
first
are
not
in
the
Arabique
text
of
S.
Ephraems
prayer
,
in
the
aforesayd
diurnal
of
the
Maronits
mentioned
by
M.
Collins
,
and
therefore
it
seemeth
,
that
because
Illaica
or
rather
Ellaica
signifyeth
ad
te
:
my
Lord
thought
best
to
adde
it
to
the
Arabique
text
,
to
iustify
his
former
translation
in
his
answere
to
the
apology
,
where
he
hath
the
Latin
thus
:
Ad
te
,
ad
,
praeter
te
,
neminem
facio
orationem
,
and
as
for
the
other
two
words
,
to
wit
,
we
shaueca
,
the
former
,
as
it
is
there
placed
before
shaueca
,
hath
no
sense
,
neither
serueth
to
any
purpose
;
for
albeit
u
.
(
which
signifyeth
,
and
)
is
pronounced
,
uue
,
when
the
word
following
beginneth
with
the
vowell
e
.
(
as
it
is
also
pronounced
uua
,
when
the
vowell
a.
followeth
immediatly
)
yet
going
before
a
word
beginning
with
a
consonant
(
as
it
doth
heer
before
shaueca
)
it
is
not
changed
any
way
in
sound
or
pronunciation
;
and
therfore
it
reteyneth
the
natural
sound
and
forme
of
the
letter
u
.
so
as
uue
before
shaueca
hath
no
sense
,
or
construction
:
wherby
it
appeareth
,
either
that
M.
Collins
hath
not
well
learned
his
lesson
of
my
Lord
,
or
els
that
my
Lord
himselfe
is
but
a
smatterer
in
the
Arabique
tongue
;
and
that
therefore
meaning
to
make
Arabique
to
iustify
his
false
allegation
of
his
Latin
text
,
he
erred
,
&
made
false
Arabique
.
And
this
may
be
obserued
not
only
in
the
word
uue
,
but
also
in
shaueca
which
followeth
it
,
&
is
no
true
Arabique
word
,
although
it
hath
some
affinity
in
sound
at
least
with
suaca
,
which
is
in
the
text
of
S.
Ephraem
,
as
shal
be
declared
more
at
large
after
a
while
.
In
the
meane
tyme
thou
shalt
vnderstand
good
Reader
,
that
to
the
end
I
may
speake
vpon
good
ground
,
I
haue
vsed
extraordinary
diligence
to
find
out
the
sayd
Diuinall
,
and
to
see
,
and
consider
the
wordes
,
and
text
it selfe
with
the
aduise
and
iudgment
not
only
of
some
Italians
who
haue
very
exact
skill
in
the
Arabique
tongue
,
but
also
of
the
Maronits
themselues
,
who
doe
naturally
speake
that
language
,
and
reside
in
the
College
of
that
Nation
heere
in
Rome
,
in
whole
library
I
found
the
booke
mentioned
by
M.
Collins
,
printed
in
the
yeare
1534.
in
the
Arabique
tongue
,
thogh
in
Syriac
Caracters
:
in
which
booke
I
find
also
the
whole
passage
,
which
M.
Collins
hath
layd
downe
(
for
he
cyteth
7.
or
8.
lines
togeather
,
as
you
shall
heare
further
after
a
while
)
all
agreeing
very
wel
with
this
printed
copy
,
except
only
those
few
wordes
which
most
concerne
this
Controuersy
,
and
a
few
more
immediatly
following
left
out
by
him
,
because
(
belike
)
they
made
nothing
for
his
purpose
.
53.
Therefore
to
the
end
,
as
well
the
truth
as
my
Lords
fraud
and
his
champions
,
may
the
better
appeare
,
I
will
first
set
downe
the
whole
text
of
S.
Ephraem
,
as
M.
Collins
cyteth
,
&
translateth
it
,
&
afterwards
I
will
shew
the
difference
betwixt
that
,
&
the
true
Arabique
,
as
it
is
in
the
printed
book
which
M.
Collins
mentioneth
.
Thus
he
sayth
:
The
words
before
,
and
after
are
these
:
Accipe
deprecationem
meam
o
Domine
&c.
Receaue
my
prayer
,
O
Lord
,
not
for
my
righteousnes
,
but
for
thy
mercyes
sakes
;
and
in
the
multitude
of
thy
bountyes
,
and
of
thy
compassions
,
saue
my
soule
,
which
is
taken
prisoner
of
death
.
Remember
me
o
Lord
,
and
although
I
haue
sinned
,
and
am
wounded
with
deadly
wounds
,
non
precor
quemquam
praeter
te
,
yet
do
I
not
pray
to
any
besides
thy selfe
:
but
to
thy
mercy
and
bounty
I
betake
my selfe
,
because
thou
art
that
Lord
God
which
comprisest
(
or
imbracest
)
all
thinges
,
and
thy
power
is
ouer
all
that
liueth
and
breatheth
.
Thus
doth
M.
Collins
alleadge
the
context
with
the
circumstances
of
the
place
cyted
by
my
Lord
.
54.
And
indeed
the
Arabique
agreeth
therewith
,
vntill
it
come
to
the
wordes
,
Non
precor
quemquam
praeter
te
,
I
do
not
pray
to
any
besids
thy selfe
,
which
are
farre
different
in
the
Arabique
thus
,
Flam
et
lob
suaca
,
that
is
to
say
,
non
precabor
equalem
tibi
,
I
will
not
pray
to
any
equall
to
thee
:
which
Saint
Ephraem
explicateth
also
further
,
saying
immediatly
thus
,
Vlam
absot
idai
ala
alah
gairaca
,
that
is
to
say
in
English
,
And
I
will
not
stretch
forth
my
handes
to
any
God
,
besides
thee
,
which
last
sentence
is
wholy
left
out
by
M.
Collins
;
so
as
if
we
add
the
same
to
the
former
which
my
Lord
alleadgeth
,
&
change
praeter
te
,
besides
thee
,
into
equalem
tibi
,
equal
to
thee
,
it
wil
be
euident
that
S.
Ephraem
did
not
meane
to
exclude
prayer
to
any
,
but
to
the
false
Gods
;
for
then
the
whole
sentence
wil
be
this
,
I
will
not
pray
to
any
equall
to
thee
,
neither
will
I
extend
(
or
stretch
forth
)
my
hands
to
any
God
besides
thee
.
And
then
he
goeth
forward
as
M.
Collins
hath
it
thus
:
But
to
thy
mercy
,
and
bounty
I
betake
my selfe
&c.
This
then
being
so
,
I
leaues
it
to
the
Reader
to
iudge
,
how
well
M.
Collins
hath
iustifyed
my
Lords
allegation
;
seeing
that
now
it
falleth
out
,
that
as
his
Lordship
did
then
corruptly
translate
those
wordes
,
praeter
te
insted
of
aequalem
tibi
;
so
now
Maister
Collins
hath
fraudulently
alleadged
the
whole
passage
,
leauing
out
that
which
immediately
followed
,
and
is
very
necessary
to
make
the
Reader
vnderstand
Saint
Ephrems
meaning
therein
.
55.
And
whereas
all
the
controuersy
concerning
this
sentence
consisteth
in
the
words
,
praeter
te
,
as
whether
the
same
be
truely
translated
out
of
the
Arabicque
;
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
the
word
shaueca
,
which
M.
Colins
giueth
vs
to
signify
praeter
te
,
is
no
Arabique
word
,
as
I
haue
said
before
,
although
it
commeth
neere
to
the
Arabicque
;
for
the
true
Arabicque
word
which
is
in
Saint
Ephrems
Text
,
is
suaca
,
and
signifieth
equalem
tibi
,
equall
to
thee
;
for
sua
signifieth
equall
,
and
ca
being
added
vnto
it
,
maketh
it
,
equall
to
thee
:
and
for
the
proofe
thereof
it
chaunced
,
that
an
Italian
very
learned
in
the
language
being
demaunded
what
suaca
signified
,
and
hauing
answered
that
it
signified
equalis
tibi
,
called
to
him
to
a
Maronite
who
passed
by
at
the
same
tyme
,
and
asked
him
,
what
signified
equalis
in
his
language
,
&
he
answered
suae
,
and
being
further
asked
what
is
equalis
tibi
,
he
said
suaca
,
besides
that
the
very
Dictionaries
of
the
Hebrew
,
Syriake
,
and
Arabicke
do
clearly
confirme
it
,
as
the
Lexicon
pentaglotton
col.
182.
a.
where
it
apeares
that
the
hebrew
verbe
shaua
(
which
signifyeth
aequalis
suit
)
is
in
the
Calday
also
shaua
,
in
the
Syriaque
sheua
,
&
in
the
Arabique
saui
,
and
that
it
hath
for
the
nowne
in
the
Hebrew
sheua
,
in
the
Calday
shaua
,
in
the
Syriaque
sheui
,
and
in
the
Arabique
sua
,
all
signifying
aequalis
.
56.
Now
then
by
the
consonance
,
&
conformity
of
the
other
three
languages
,
Hebrew
,
Calday
,
and
Syriaque
,
with
the
Arabique
,
it
is
euident
that
the
proper
and
naturall
signification
of
sua
in
the
Arabique
,
is
aequalis
;
neuertheles
I
will
not
deny
but
that
it
is
taken
sometymes
(
though
vnproperly
)
for
praeter
:
but
why
my
Lord
should
leaue
the
proper
,
and
common
signification
of
the
word
,
to
take
the
vnproper
,
I
see
no
re●son
,
especially
seeing
that
gairaca
which
followeth
a
little
after
in
the
Arabique
Text
of
S.
Ephraem
doth
properly
signify
praeter
te
,
as
in
those
words
,
which
M.
Collins
left
out
,
to
wit
,
Non
extendam
manus
meas
ad
Deum
prater
te
,
I
will
not
extend
my
hands
to
a
God
besides
thee
.
There
I
say
,
praeter
te
,
is
gairaca
in
the
Arabique
,
and
therfore
it
is
likely
that
if
S.
Ephraem
had
meant
to
say
,
Non
precor
quemquam
praeter
te
,
he
would
not
haue
vsed
suaca
,
but
gairaca
,
as
he
did
afterwards
.
Moreouer
if
suaca
should
signify
there
praeter
te
,
the
sense
should
be
vnperfect
,
for
so
the
Latin
translation
shoulbe
Non
precor
praeter
te
,
without
quenquam
,
which
M.
Collins
addeth
,
or
ad
neminem
as
my
Lord
translateth
it
(
who
hath
it
thus
,
Ad
te
,
ad
praeter
te
neminem
orationem
facio
;
)
whereas
in
the
Arabique
text
of
S.
Ephraem
,
there
is
no
word
which
signifyeth
quenquam
,
or
ad
neminem
,
but
translating
suaca
,
aequalem
tibi
,
the
sense
is
perfect
word
for
word
,
thus
,
Lam
et
lob
suaca
:
Non
precabor
aequalem
tibi
:
lastly
the
word
,
which
M.
Collins
hath
giuen
vs
in
his
Arabique
for
praeter
te
(
to
wit
shaueca
)
may
suffice
to
confound
my
Lord
and
him
;
for
shaue
(
which
according
to
my
Lords
translation
should
signify
praeter
)
being
no
Arabique
,
but
an
Hebrew
word
,
signifyeth
aeq●●lis
and
not
praeter
,
being
deriued
from
the
root
shaua
:
so
as
albeit
my
Lord
,
or
M.
Collins
,
haue
erred
in
the
Arabique
,
yet
I
may
say
by
the
errour
,
as
one
sayd
by
a
stone
,
which
he
had
cast
at
a
dog
,
&
did
hit
his
stepdame
,
that
it
did
not
hit
amisse
for
me
,
seeing
that
his
Lordship
missing
the
Arabique
,
&
lighting
by
chance
vpon
the
Hebrew
hath
confuted
himselfe
;
and
therefore
I
conclude
,
that
by
all
this
it
is
manifest
,
that
his
corruption
of
S.
Ephraem
is
inexcusable
as
well
for
the
text
,
as
for
the
sense
,
57.
But
now
to
do
my
Lord
,
and
M.
Collins
a
pleasure
,
if
I
should
allow
their
translation
of
praeter
te
,
what
would
they
gaine
therby
?
Truely
nothing
at
all
,
for
now
that
we
see
the
circumstances
laid
downe
by
M.
Collins
,
it
appeareth
euidently
that
my
Lord
did
fraudulently
cyte
those
words
of
S.
Ephraem
,
concealing
the
sayd
circumstances
,
to
the
end
he
might
with
more
colour
apply
them
to
his
purpose
against
prayer
to
Saints
,
which
is
no
way
preiudiced
therby
for
the
circumstances
do
shew
that
S.
Ephrē
did
craue
of
Almighty
God
the
saluation
of
his
soule
by
the
cure
of
his
deadly
wounds
,
that
is
to
say
,
by
the
remission
of
his
sinnes
,
and
grace
to
heale
the
same
;
and
this
he
craued
of
God
,
as
of
th●
Omnipotent
Lord
of
all
,
who
only
can
giue
grace
,
remission
of
sinne
,
and
saluation
;
so
as
S.
Ephraem
had
great
reason
to
craue
it
of
him
only
,
and
therefore
might
well
haue
sayd
,
non
precor
quemquam
praeter
te
,
I
do
not
pray
to
any
but
to
thee
,
that
is
to
say
,
to
obtayne
remission
of
my
sinnes
,
not
knowing
any
equall
to
thee
,
or
any
other
God
but
thee
,
and
therefore
to
thy
only
mercy
,
and
bounty
I
betake
my selfe
,
because
thou
art
the
Lord
God
of
all
,
&
hast
power
ouer
all
creaturs
.
Thus
I
say
,
S.
Ephraem
might
with
great
reason
say
,
and
so
all
Catholikes
in
like
case
,
neuer
demanding
grace
,
or
remission
of
sinnes
,
or
saluation
of
any
but
of
God
himselfe
,
who
is
the
only
giuer
thereof
;
albeit
we
craue
the
same
of
him
by
the
intercession
of
Saints
,
and
of
men
;
and
do
also
beseech
Saints
,
and
men
to
help
vs
to
obtayne
it
of
him
,
yea
and
pray
also
to
Angells
,
and
Saints
to
fauour
,
and
help
vs
in
such
other
things
as
by
the
goodnes
of
God
are
in
their
power
to
bestow
vpon
vs
,
but
not
as
Gods
,
or
equall
to
God
,
but
as
his
dearest
seruants
,
and
fauorits
,
whose
ministery
and
seruice
he
vseth
to
the
help
and
comfort
of
his
Creatures
;
so
as
to
that
purpose
which
S.
Ephraem
prayed
,
we
pray
to
none
but
to
God
.
58.
You
see
then
what
good
seruice
,
M.
Collins
hath
done
vnto
my
Lord
heereby
,
laying
downe
the
text
of
S.
Ephraem
at
large
,
seeing
it
appeareth
euidently
therby
that
my
Lords
allegation
of
those
few
words
which
he
cyted
,
was
very
fraudulent
:
wherto
if
we
add
now
his
Lordships
false
translation
of
suaca
,
and
his
addition
of
Illaica
to
the
Arabique
text
(
which
he
promised
to
alleadg
entirely
)
I
know
not
what
more
may
be
desired
to
shew
the
egregious
fraud
,
and
malice
of
them
both
;
so
as
heerby
it
may
be
iudged
,
whether
M.
Collins
had
any
reason
to
say
afterwards
as
he
doth
viz.
that
this
is
pregnant
inough
to
iustify
the
Bishop
from
being
such
a
falsary
,
as
(
I
)
would
make
him
,
&
that
(
I
)
may
rather
feare
the
imputation
of
it
my selfe
,
as
if
the
two
letters
F.
T.
were
as
many
markes
in
my
forhead
to
know
a
False
Theefe
thereby
.
Thus
indeed
he
sayth
,
but
how
reasonably
let
the
Reader
iudge
,
seeing
that
insteed
of
iustifying
my
Lord
from
the
imputation
of
falsity
,
he
himselfe
hath
increased
the
suspition
&
fortifyed
the
imputation
thereof
by
his
diligent
addition
of
the
circumstances
,
which
doe
euidently
discouer
my
Lords
fraud
.
And
whereas
it
is
his
pleasure
to
make
vse
of
the
letters
F.
T.
to
marke
me
in
the
forhead
for
a
False
Theefe
,
he
might
haue
sayd
it
with
some
reason
,
if
he
could
haue
charged
me
truely
to
haue
stolne
so
much
as
one
word
or
syllable
,
now
,
or
at
any
tyme
,
out
of
any
sentence
,
which
might
make
against
me
;
whereas
you
see
he
hath
pilfred
,
and
stolne
out
of
S.
Ephraems
text
a
whole
sentence
immediatly
following
the
words
which
my
Lord
alleadged
,
and
doe
import
much
for
the
explication
of
S.
Ephraems
meaning
;
and
therefore
I
remit
it
to
the
iudgment
of
the
indifferent
Reader
,
whether
he
or
I
,
doe
better
deserue
to
be
branded
in
the
forhead
with
the
marke
of
a
False
Theefe
.
59.
Although
this
might
suffice
to
discouer
the
intollerable
fraud
of
my
Lord
,
&
M.
Collins
;
yet
to
make
the
same
more
cleare
then
the
Sunne
at
noone
day
,
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
there
are
in
the
sayd
Diurnal
(
which
M.
Collins
alleadged
)
certaine
salutations
,
with
prayers
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
Mary
,
and
to
S.
Michael
,
almost
immediatly
before
the
prayer
of
S.
Ephraem
,
out
of
the
which
my
Lord
took
his
sentence
;
&
in
one
of
the
sayd
salutations
to
the
B.
Virgin
(
which
is
to
be
seen
there
fol
167.
)
there
are
these
words
towards
the
end
therof
pa.
173.
Peace
be
to
thee
by
whome
we
were
deliuered
from
the
fire
of
hell
,
O
crowne
of
the
faythfull
that
do
combat
or
fight
;
peace
be
to
thee
,
who
art
the
holy
shippe
,
and
the
port
of
saluation
;
peace
be
to
thee
to
whome
the
Angell
Gabriel
was
sent
,
who
saluted
thee
saying
reioyce
O
Virgin
,
the
Lady
of
women
;
reioyce
o
full
of
grace
,
our
Lord
is
with
thee
,
blessed
art
thou
among
women
,
and
blessed
is
the
fruit
of
thy
wombe
,
because
he
that
was
borne
of
thee
,
is
called
Holy
,
&
the
Son
of
God
.
PRAY
TO
HIM
for
the
remission
of
our
sinnes
.
Thus
endeth
that
salutation
,
&
prayer
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
.
60.
In
like
manner
S.
Michael
is
saluted
thus
pag
.
204.
Peace
be
to
thee
Michael
the
head
of
the
Angels
:
Peace
be
to
thee
Michael
the
Lord
of
great
miracles
;
peace
be
to
thee
Michael
the
Archangell
,
the
intercessour
of
mankind
before
the
Trinity
.
Pray
for
vs
,
O
Michael
the
Archangell
,
that
our
sinnes
may
be
forgiuen
vs
for
thy
prayers
,
which
are
acceptable
to
our
Lord
.
And
after
this
there
followeth
a
short
prayer
to
Almighty
God
fol
205.
which
endeth
thus
:
Heare
our
cry
by
the
intercession
of
our
Lady
,
and
pure
Virgin
,
and
of
S.
Peter
the
Apostle
,
and
of
S.
Nicholas
,
and
of
all
Saints
.
Amen
.
And
immediatly
after
this
followeth
sol
.
207.
the
prayer
of
S.
Ephrē
,
alleadged
by
my
Lord
&
M.
Collins
,
which
prayer
also
endeth
thus
,
fol.
224
:
Heare
O
Lord
the
prayer
of
thy
seruant
by
the
intercession
of
thy
Saints
,
which
art
eternall
,
&
blessed
for
euer
&
euer
.
Amen
.
61.
Now
M.
Collins
,
I
would
gladly
heare
what
my
Lord
and
you
will
say
to
al
this
;
for
if
this
Diurnall
be
S.
Ephraems
work
or
any
part
of
the
first
tome
of
the
true
Ephraem
(
which
my
Lord
quoted
expresly
for
the
sentence
which
he
alleadged
)
then
either
my
Lord
did
not
vnderstand
Saint
Ephraem
well
,
or
els
S.
Ephrem
contradicted
that
sentence
in
his
practise
,
praying
to
others
besydes
Almighty
God
,
as
namely
to
our
blessed
Lady
,
and
Saint
Michaell
.
And
if
this
be
not
Saint
Ephraems
worke
,
then
it
doth
not
iustify
my
Lords
allegation
of
that
sentence
,
out
of
the
first
tome
of
the
true
Ephrem
;
besides
that
it
seemeth
strange
to
me
that
my
Lord
could
see
that
one
sentence
,
consisting
only
of
5.
or
6.
words
,
&
could
not
see
in
the
same
Diurnal
those
long
prayers
to
our
Blessed
Lady
,
and
Saint
Michaell
a
little
before
.
Is
not
this
to
be
willfully
blynd
?
How
well
may
the
saying
of
our
Sauiour
to
the
Pharisees
Ioan
.
9.
be
applyed
to
my
Lord
,
and
you
:
Si
caeci
essetis
&c.
if
you
were
blynde
,
you
should
haue
no
sinne
,
but
now
that
you
say
we
see
,
your
sinne
doth
remayne
.
62.
Well
then
,
to
come
now
to
the
message
which
it
hath
pleased
my
Lord
to
send
me
,
M.
Collins
sayth
to
me
thus
num
.
22.
pag
.
241.
As
for
Vossius
(
sayth
he
)
the
Translatour
,
and
Prefacer
,
and
setter
forth
,
with
whom
you
are
so
much
delighted
;
as
his
name
in
Dutch
(
which
was
his
naturall
language
)
signifyes
a
Fox
,
so
you
are
the
Goose
for
your
labour
,
if
you
credit
him
to
farre
:
and
this
as
I
was
wished
from
him
that
vnderstands
these
things
best
,
so
I
tel
it
you
.
Thus
saith
M.
Collins
,
and
I
accept
the
message
very
gratefully
;
and
to
the
end
I
may
returne
the
answere
to
my
Lord
with
speed
,
by
the
same
messenger
.
I
beseech
you
M.
Collins
as
you
brought
me
the
message
,
so
also
to
deliuer
the
answere
,
and
to
signify
to
his
Lordship
from
me
,
these
points
,
with
all
due
respect
to
his
person
.
63.
First
,
that
his
Lordship
should
haue
done
much
better
for
his
owne
reputation
,
to
haue
sent
his
message
by
a
wiser
man
:
for
as
the
prouerb
saith
.
He
that
sends
a
foole
on
his
errand
,
must
goe
after
and
do
it
himselfe
.
64.
Secondly
that
I
rest
as
little
satisfied
,
as
before
,
concerning
the
first
tome
of
the
true
Ephraem
,
which
his
Lordship
alleadgeth
:
for
albeyt
you
tell
me
of
an
edition
of
Ephraem
,
distinguished
by
Tomes
,
yet
you
neyther
tell
me
by
whome
it
was
set
forth
,
nor
where
it
was
printed
,
nor
where
it
is
to
be
found
;
neyther
doe
you
say
that
his
Lordship
tooke
yt
out
of
the
first
tome
of
that
edition
,
but
out
of
a
manuscript
which
was
printed
in
Rome
such
a
yeare
,
&
called
a
Diurnall
,
as
indeed
it
may
be
well
called
,
being
but
a
little
prayer
book
,
conteyning
diuers
prayers
for
morning
,
euening
,
midnight
,
and
the
canonicall
houres
,
with
the
7.
penitentiall
psalmes
,
and
amongst
the
rest
there
are
only
5.
or
6.
prayers
with
the
title
of
Saint
Ephraem
:
so
as
that
Diurnall
cannot
be
called
Saint
Ephraems
prayer
,
as
Maister
Collins
calleth
it
,
saying
:
That
the
Booke
goeth
vnder
the
name
of
Saint
Ephraems
Prayer
;
and
much
lesse
is
if
the
first
come
of
the
true
Ephraem
(
as
my
Lord
quoted
it
)
and
if
it
be
Saint
Ephraems
worke
,
then
the
prayers
there
to
our
B.
Lady
,
and
Saint
Michael
,
conuince
my
Lord
of
inexcusable
fraud
;
and
so
you
may
tell
his
Lordship
from
me
,
and
that
he
might
haue
seene
those
prayers
,
as
well
as
that
short
sentence
,
if
he
had
not
beene
wilfully
blynd
.
65.
Thirdly
that
his
Lordships
addition
of
Illaica
to
the
Text
,
and
his
translation
of
suaca
,
which
he
interpreteth
praeter
te
,
is
also
most
fraudulent
;
which
later
indeed
I
suspected
before
,
albeit
I
could
not
charg
his
Lordship
directly
with
it
,
vntill
now
that
you
M.
Collins
haue
directed
where
to
fynde
it
,
as
I
haue
done
by
your
good
help
,
and
therefore
how
much
he
is
behoulding
to
you
for
this
,
I
leaue
it
to
his
Lordships
iudgment
.
66.
Fourthly
you
may
also
tell
his
Lordship
for
his
better
information
,
that
if
he
do
beleiue
that
the
Maronits
(
out
of
whose
Diurnall
he
pretendeth
to
haue
taken
the
sentence
)
are
Monks
in
a
monastery
on
Mount
Sinah
(
as
you
say
they
are
)
his
Lordship
is
much
deceiued
;
for
the
Maronits
are
a
people
dwelling
on
Mount
Libanus
many
dayes
iourney
from
mount
Sinah
;
and
albeit
there
are
monks
among
them
,
as
also
on
mount
Sinah
,
yet
they
are
of
different
orders
,
and
contryes
;
for
the
Maronits
on
mount
Libanus
are
of
S.
Antonies
order
,
and
those
of
Sinah
,
being
Greeks
,
are
of
S.
Basills
order
,
and
are
not
called
Maronitae
,
but
Melchitae
.
Thus
much
by
the
way
for
my
Lords
instruction
,
and
yours
.
67.
Fiftly
,
that
put
the
case
his
Lordships
translation
were
true
,
and
that
S.
Ephraem
had
said
,
Non
precor
quemquam
praeter
te
,
yet
his
application
therof
against
prayer
to
Saints
,
is
neither
to
the
purpose
,
nor
voyd
of
fraud
;
seeing
that
the
circumstances
(
which
his
Lordship
concealed
,
&
you
M.
Collins
haue
now
layd
down
little
to
his
honour
)
do
manifestly
shew
,
that
the
place
doth
nothing
preiudice
prayer
to
saints
,
for
the
causes
signifyed
so
lately
,
that
I
need
not
to
repeate
them
now
:
and
therefore
wheras
you
M.
Collins
,
make
such
account
of
that
sentence
,
that
you
haue
prefixed
it
before
the
second
part
of
your
book
(
where
you
professe
to
treate
purposely
of
prayer
to
Saints
)
setting
it
downe
vnder
the
title
thus
.
Ephraem
.
To
thee
,
and
but
to
thee
,
to
none
I
make
my
prayer
;
you
may
do
well
to
remoue
it
from
thence
,
and
set
it
amongst
the
errours
and
faults
escaped
in
the
print
,
or
rather
to
put
it
vp
in
your
pocket
,
that
there
may
be
no
more
memory
of
it
,
nor
consequently
of
my
Lords
forgery
,
and
your
folly
.
68.
Sixtly
,
whereas
my
Lord
doth
reiect
the
edition
of
S.
Ephraems
workes
,
translated
by
Vossius
,
yea
and
(
as
you
tell
me
also
afterwards
pag
.
243.
lin
.
vlt
.
)
his
Lordship
will
auouch
it
(
howsoeuer
the
first
tome
of
Vossius
his
edition
may
be
of
the
true
Ephraem
)
yet
the
rest
are
no
more
Ephraems
works
then
his
owne
;
wheras
I
say
you
affirme
this
in
my
Lords
name
,
you
may
tell
his
Lordship
,
if
you
please
,
that
albeit
I
acknowledg
him
to
be
a
man
of
great
dignity
(
as
being
Counsailour
to
the
Kings
Maiesty
my
soueraigne
,
&
therfore
I
do
beare
him
all
due
respect
)
yet
I
cannot
acknowledge
his
authority
to
be
so
great
,
that
his
bare
word
shall
stand
for
a
law
,
and
suffice
to
censure
,
controle
,
&
condemne
Authors
as
his
pleasure
,
without
yeilding
any
cause
or
reason
why
,
especially
in
this
case
now
in
question
touching
Vossius
,
seeing
that
I
haue
giuen
in
my
Adioynder
(
as
you
haue
seene
before
)
sufficient
reasons
to
iustify
his
edition
,
which
both
my
Lord
,
and
you
M.
Collins
haue
seene
in
my
Adioynder
,
and
neuertheles
you
dissemble
it
wholy
,
and
vrge
my
Lords
bare
auouchment
,
and
affirmation
of
the
contrary
,
as
though
the
same
were
sufficient
to
confute
all
that
which
I
haue
sayd
,
or
can
be
sayd
in
defence
of
Vossius
.
Therefore
you
may
tell
my
Lord
,
that
as
yet
I
see
no
reason
,
why
the
place
alleadged
by
Cardinal
Bellarmine
,
out
of
S.
Ephraems
works
to
proue
prayer
to
Saints
,
should
not
stand
in
full
force
,
notwithstanding
the
exception
which
his
Lordship
taketh
to
the
edition
of
Vossius
;
in
which
respect
I
will
also
be
bould
to
make
vse
of
S.
Ephraems
testimonyes
heereafter
,
out
of
the
same
edition
,
as
occasion
shall
serue
,
vntill
my
Lord
or
you
do
disproue
it
,
with
some
better
reason
,
then
my
Lords
bare
word
.
69.
Lastly
I
would
gladly
haue
my
Lord
to
vnderstand
(
though
I
thinke
you
will
be
loath
to
tell
him
)
that
he
had
neuer
worse
lucke
in
his
life
,
then
when
he
made
choyce
of
you
for
his
Champion
;
for
you
are
so
farre
from
performing
the
office
of
a
good
Champion
,
that
you
rather
play
the
part
of
a
bad
Tinker
,
who
in
labouring
to
stop
one
hole
in
a
Kettle
,
commonly
maketh
two
or
three
more
,
&
leaueth
it
much
worse
then
he
found
it
;
for
truly
so
doe
you
heere
deale
with
my
Lord
,
making
his
cause
much
worse
then
it
was
;
so
as
his
Lordship
should
haue
prouided
better
for
his
owne
honour
,
to
haue
let
you
still
be
silent
,
as
you
were
amongst
the
Canes
muti
non
valentes
latrare
(
of
whome
the
Prophet
Isay
speaketh
cap
.
56.
)
then
to
set
your
tongue
on
talking
so
much
to
his
owne
disgrace
,
as
heere
he
hath
done
;
and
therefore
not
only
I
,
but
also
his
Lorship
hath
great
reason
to
shut
vp
your
mouth
heereafter
with
Obmutesce
.
70.
But
now
to
proceed
,
I
omit
a
world
of
fooleryes
,
and
impertinent
cauills
in
his
answere
to
my
Adionder
touching
certaine
places
of
S.
Chrysostome
&
S.
Maximus
,
&
will
discouer
his
most
fraudulent
answer
concerning
a
place
which
Card
.
Bellarmine
alleadged
in
his
Apology
,
of
an
Oration
of
Saint
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
made
in
the
feast
of
S.
Cyprian
,
wherein
he
not
only
prayed
to
the
Saint
saying
,
Tu
è
superis
nos
respice
,
&
populum
hunc
sanctum
dirige
:
Behould
vs
from
aboue
,
and
direct
this
holy
people
;
but
also
recounted
the
story
of
a
holy
Virgin
called
Iustina
,
who
being
extremly
tempted
by
the
diuel
,
and
her
chastity
endangered
(
by
the
means
of
Necromancy
)
deuoutly
implored
the
help
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
Mary
,
whereby
togeather
with
her
other
holy
endeauours
she
ouercame
the
temptation
.
To
this
obiection
of
the
Cardinall
,
my
Lord
of
Winchester
answereth
three
wayes
;
first
that
the
Oration
of
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
out
of
which
this
testimony
is
taken
,
is
not
liquida
fidei
,
of
cleare
credit
,
because
it
is
vncertain
who
that
Cyprian
was
of
whome
he
made
that
Oration
,
as
namely
whether
he
was
Cyprian
Bish
.
of
Carthage
(
as
he
should
seem
to
be
by
the
circumstances
mentioned
therin
)
or
Cyprian
Bishop
of
Antioch
,
in
which
respect
my
Lord
of
Winchester
sayth
:
Ita
fluctuat
res
tota
,
ita
perplexa
omnia
,
so
vncertaine
is
the
whole
matter
,
and
so
perplexe
,
and
doubtfull
are
all
things
in
that
Oration
.
71.
His
second
answere
is
,
that
it
was
but
the
fact
of
a
Mayd
,
and
then
asketh
whether
the
fact
of
a
mayde
be
a
statute
of
the
Church
?
And
whether
a
rule
of
fayth
be
to
be
grounded
vpon
a
Mayds
act
?
And
lastly
he
answereth
that
S.
Epiphanius
sharply
reprehended
the
selfe
same
fact
in
the
same
Age
in
the
Collyridian
Heretikes
,
when
it
was
done
by
many
of
the
same
sexe
.
To
these
three
answers
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
I
replyed
in
my
Adioynder
thus
.
pag
.
252.
lin
.
6.
You
see
how
substantially
he
argueth
,
inferring
that
the
matter
,
and
substance
of
the
oration
is
vncertayne
,
because
it
is
doubtfull
of
which
Cyprian
the
oration
was
made
;
wheras
neuertheles
he
cannot
with
any
reason
deny
but
that
the
oration
is
S.
Gregory
Nazianzens
:
wherupon
it
must
needs
follow
that
albeit
Nazianzen
should
be
deceiued
,
and
erre
in
the
history
,
or
the
person
of
whome
he
speaketh
,
yet
the
substance
as
well
of
the
story
,
as
of
the
doctrine
contayned
in
that
Oration
,
was
true
in
his
conceipt
,
and
therfore
may
serue
for
an
assured
testimony
of
his
beliefe
,
and
of
the
practise
of
the
Church
in
his
tyme
(
which
is
the
only
poynt
now
in
question
)
and
therfore
seeing
that
he
not
only
prayed
to
a
Saynt
himselfe
,
but
also
signifyed
that
a
holy
Virgin
did
the
lyke
;
it
is
cleare
,
that
both
he
himselfe
,
and
also
the
faythfull
people
in
those
dayes
,
held
it
to
be
lawfull
,
and
practised
it
as
occasion
requyred
.
72.
And
whereas
M.
Andrewes
addeth
concerning
the
latter
poynt
(
to
wit
,
the
prayer
of
the
mayde
)
that
it
was
but
a
fact
of
a
mayd
,
and
then
asketh
whether
the
fact
of
a
mayd
is
a
statute
of
the
Church
?
and
whether
a
rule
of
●ayth
is
to
be
grounded
vpon
a
mayds
act
?
I
haue
sufficiently
answered
him
already
touching
the
statutes
,
&
decrees
of
the
Church
concerning
this
point
;
and
now
tell
him
agayne
,
that
there
was
neyther
at
that
tyme
,
any
need
of
statutes
for
prayer
to
Saynts
,
which
then
was
euery
where
in
practise
;
neyther
is
it
now
in
question
what
the
Church
decreed
then
touching
the
same
,
but
what
was
then
generally
practised
and
belieued
,
which
cannot
be
better
,
and
more
clearely
proued
by
any
testimonyes
of
the
Fathers
,
then
by
such
as
witnesse
,
not
only
their
owne
facts
,
but
also
the
practise
of
other
Christians
,
eyther
in
their
dayes
,
or
els
in
former
tymes
,
as
this
was
which
S.
Gregory
affirmeth
of
that
holy
mayd
.
73.
But
will
you
now
heare
how
well
M.
Andrewes
concludeth
al
this
matter
?
forsooth
he
maketh
an
obiection
against
himselfe
,
saying
in
a
different
letter
(
as
if
the
obiection
were
the
Cardinals
)
sed
factum
non
reprehenditur
,
but
this
fact
of
the
mayd
is
not
reprehended
by
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
:
and
then
he
addeth
answering
to
his
owne
obiection
:
Immò
idem
illud
&c.
yea
,
but
Epiphanius
sharpely
reprehended
the
selfe
same
,
in
the
same
age
,
in
the
Collyridian
heretykes
,
when
it
was
done
by
many
of
the
same
sexe
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Andrews
,
playing
his
part
kindly
,
as
well
in
his
obiection
as
in
his
answere
.
For
in
his
obiection
(
wherin
he
would
seeme
to
speake
for
the
Cardinall
,
or
rather
to
lay
downe
his
words
)
he
dissembleth
altogether
what
the
Cardinall
saith
to
vrge
,
and
fortify
that
example
of
the
mayde
,
and
therefore
forbeareth
purposely
,
as
it
may
be
thought
,
to
set
it
downe
in
his
margent
with
the
rest
of
the
Cardinalls
text
;
who
after
the
words
of
S.
Gregory
before
related
(
to
wit
Virginem
Mariam
rogauit
&c.
She
besought
the
Virgin
Mary
to
succour
a
Virgin
in
danger
)
addeth
immediatly
,
ac
paulò
post
resert
eam
&c.
and
a
litle
after
(
Nazianzen
)
declareth
that
her
prayer
was
heard
.
Vicit
,
inquit
,
virgo
,
vincitur
daemon
.
The
Virgin
(
saith
he
)
ouercame
,
and
the
Diuel
is
ouercome
.
Thus
doth
the
Cardinall
vrge
this
example
,
which
as
you
see
,
is
of
much
more
force
,
then
to
say
only
(
as
M.
Andrews
saith
)
that
S.
Gregory
did
not
reprehend
the
fact
.
74.
For
albeit
his
silence
in
not
reprehending
it
,
may
serue
for
an
argument
that
he
did
not
mislyke
it
,
yet
the
other
clearely
proueth
that
not
only
he
,
but
also
God
himselfe
did
notably
approue
it
,
seing
he
saith
that
she
obtayned
the
effect
of
her
prayer
,
and
ouercame
the
Diuell
:
whereto
I
also
add
,
that
when
that
holy
Father
beginneth
to
recount
the
history
of
the
mayd
,
he
sayth
thus
:
Audite
Virgines
,
ac
simul
exultate
&c.
Harken
o
ye
Virgins
,
and
reioyce
also
,
yea
all
ye
that
esteeme
chastity
in
matrimony
,
and
loue
Virgins
,
giue
eare
,
for
to
both
sorts
this
my
narration
may
serue
for
an
ornament
.
So
he
.
Whereby
it
appeareth
playnely
that
he
meant
to
recount
that
which
he
would
wish
to
be
approued
and
imitated
by
others
:
whereupon
it
followeth
that
by
this
example
he
exhorted
,
and
encouraged
all
those
whose
chastity
should
be
endangered
,
to
craue
the
help
of
the
blessed
Virgin
,
as
that
holy
mayd
did
,
who
thereby
(
togeather
with
her
other
deuotious
of
fasting
,
&
prayer
to
almighty
God
,
which
S.
Gregory
relateth
)
ouercame
the
Diuell
,
and
escaped
the
danger
of
his
tentation
.
And
could
this
holy
Father
more
euidently
declare
what
his
faith
and
beliefe
was
,
concerning
prayer
to
Saints
,
then
not
only
to
relate
this
fact
of
a
holy
Virgin
without
reprehension
of
it
,
but
also
to
signify
the
happy
euent
,
and
successe
thereof
,
yea
,
and
to
incyte
others
to
the
approbation
,
and
imitation
of
it
?
75.
But
now
sayth
M.
Andrewes
,
●lthough
Nazianzen
did
not
reprehend
it
:
yet
Epiphanius
did
sharply
reproue
idem
illud
,
euen
the
selfe
same
fact
in
the
same
age
in
other
women
.
If
this
be
true
,
M.
Andrews
doth
indeed
say
somewhat
to
the
purpose
(
at
least
to
proue
that
the
Fathers
of
that
age
did
not
with
vnanime
consent
allow
prayers
to
Saynts
;
)
but
if
it
be
false
,
and
that
he
flatly
belyeth
S.
Epiphanius
,
what
shall
we
think
of
the
mans
conscience
,
and
cause
?
The
truth
is
,
S.
Epiphanius
sharply
reprehendeth
certayne
women
who
vsed
at
a
certain
time
of
the
yeare
to
commit
Idolatry
to
the
Virgin
Mary
,
adoring
her
with
diuine
honour
,
offring
to
her
certain
cakes
in
sacrifice
,
as
though
she
had
byn
a
God
,
or
a
Goddesse
,
and
they
her
Priests
:
whereupon
he
discourseth
amply
,
prouing
first
out
of
the
old
Testament
,
that
nusquam
mulier
sacrificauit
,
aut
Sacerdotio
suncta
est
,
women
haue
neuer
sacrifyced
any
where
,
or
executed
Priestly
function
.
And
then
he
commeth
to
the
new
Testament
,
where
he
sheweth
also
the
same
,
and
addeth
further
,
that
if
women
could
euer
haue
byn
admitted
to
Sacrifyce
,
the
Virgin
Mary
her selfe
should
haue
done
it
rather
,
then
any
other
,
neuertheles
she
neuer
did
:
and
finally
he
concludeth
,
that
the
body
of
the
blessed
Virgin
Mary
,
was
reuerà
sanctum
,
sed
non
Deus
,
truely
holy
,
but
not
God
,
76.
By
all
which
it
appeareth
,
that
these
women
,
which
Epiphanius
reprehendeth
,
did
not
only
take
vpon
them
the
Priestly
function
,
but
also
committed
flat
Idolatry
,
adoring
the
Virgin
Mary
with
diuine
honour
,
offring
sacrifice
vnto
her
,
which
is
a
worship
due
to
God
alon
.
Now
then
could
a
man
belieue
that
M.
Andrewes
,
or
any
man
els
that
hath
care
of
his
reputation
would
be
so
shamelesse
to
say
,
that
this
is
idem
illud
,
that
very
selfe
same
thing
which
,
Nazianzen
sayth
,
that
holy
Virgin
did
,
who
only
craued
help
of
the
Virgin
Mary
?
Is
there
no
difference
betwixt
praying
,
&
sacrifysing
?
betwixt
Idolatry
,
&
religious
veneration
due
to
Gods
Saints
,
&
seruants
?
Or
betwixt
the
vsurpation
of
Priestly
function
(
whereof
no
woman
is
capable
)
&
the
oblation
of
priuate
prayers
,
which
is
as
free
for
women
,
as
men
?
Doth
euery
one
,
or
any
one
that
prayeth
to
Saynts
or
Angels
,
crauing
their
help
,
and
assistance
(
as
that
holy
Virgin
did
)
doth
he
,
I
say
,
adore
them
as
Gods
,
commit
idolatry
,
offer
Sacrifice
,
vsurpe
the
function
of
a
Priest
as
those
women
did
,
whom
Epiphanius
reprehended
?
Truly
if
M.
Andrews
can
iustify
this
,
he
may
boldly
say
,
and
write
what
he
list
.
So
as
now
you
see
,
that
whereas
he
vndertooke
to
proue
that
this
testimony
of
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
is
not
liquidae
fidei
,
of
cleare
credit
,
he
hath
obscured
,
or
rather
clearely
lost
his
owne
credit
,
by
an
euident
,
and
intollerable
abuse
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
without
giuing
the
least
blemish
,
or
taint
in
the
world
to
the
credit
of
the
place
that
he
impugneth
:
by
the
which
it
appeareth
euidently
,
that
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
was
vsuall
in
the
time
of
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
seeing
that
he
himselfe
did
both
inuocate
Saints
,
and
also
testify
and
approue
the
practise
of
it
in
others
,
as
you
haue
heard
:
and
this
shal
suffice
for
him
.
77.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
,
wherein
you
see
,
I
not
only
confuted
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
answere
to
the
Cardinalls
obiection
,
but
also
charged
his
Lordship
with
two
frauds
,
the
one
in
dissembling
,
and
concealing
wholy
that
which
most
imported
in
the
obiection
,
I
meane
the
circumstances
which
the
Cardinall
vrged
to
confirme
the
Mayds
example
in
praying
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
to
wit
,
the
good
successe
,
and
effect
of
her
prayers
,
and
other
holy
endeauours
which
S.
Gregory
signifyed
,
saying
:
Vicit
virgo
,
&
vincitur
Daemon
:
The
Mayd
ouercame
,
and
the
Diuell
was
ouercome
;
and
the
other
fraud
was
,
an
intollerable
abuse
of
S.
Epiphanius
in
affirming
,
that
he
condemned
in
the
Collyridian
Heretiks
idem
illud
,
the
selfe
same
act
of
the
Mayd
,
who
prayed
only
to
the
immaculate
Mother
of
God
(
not
as
to
a
God
,
or
Goddesse
,
but
as
to
a
creature
most
acceptable
to
God
;
)
whereas
that
which
S.
Epiphanius
condemned
in
the
Collyridian
Heretiks
,
was
flat
Idolatry
,
which
they
committed
,
offring
sacrifice
to
the
B.
Virgin
,
which
is
due
to
God
alone
.
78.
Now
then
I
doubt
not
,
but
that
the
Reader
expecteth
that
M.
Collins
should
say
somewhat
,
if
not
to
all
my
reply
vpon
My
Lords
answere
,
yet
at
the
least
to
the
imputation
of
the
fraudes
,
wherwith
I
charged
his
Lordship
,
seeing
he
hath
vndertaken
to
defend
him
,
and
to
cleare
him
of
the
fraudes
,
falsityes
,
and
lyes
,
wherewith
he
sayth
in
his
title
,
I
slaundered
his
Lordship
.
But
heere
,
he
not
only
dissembleth
that
which
is
most
important
in
my
reply
,
but
also
is
wholy
silent
to
the
charge
of
the
two
fraudes
,
dissembling
that
which
he
could
not
answere
.
79.
And
albeit
in
the
ninth
Chapter
pag
.
388.
num
.
24.
he
doth
enlarge
himselfe
very
much
vpon
that
place
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
spending
no
lesse
the
fiue
or
six
pages
,
in
a
large
Comment
vpon
it
;
neuertheles
he
maketh
no
mention
at
all
of
any
imputation
of
fraud
,
or
abuse
of
S.
Epiphanius
(
wherwith
I
charged
his
Lordship
)
&
yet
I
gaue
him
sufficient
occasion
to
do
it
euen
in
that
place
,
where
I
recapitulated
all
my
Lords
frauds
,
falsityes
,
and
lyes
,
&
among
the
rest
,
charged
his
Lordship
with
this
in
particuler
,
saying
,
that
he
had
egregiously
abused
,
and
flatly
belyed
Epiphanius
,
touching
prayer
to
our
Blessed
Lady
,
which
M.
Collins
thought
best
,
to
dissemble
wholy
,
and
yet
to
make
some
fayre
florish
vpon
the
place
it selfe
,
because
it
treated
of
Idolatry
,
and
seemed
to
him
very
fit
,
to
gull
some
simple
Reader
,
with
the
help
of
some
false
glosse
,
or
comment
of
his
;
and
this
he
thought
he
might
doe
without
any
hazard
to
my
Lords
honour
,
who
being
not
so
much
as
named
or
any
wayes
mentioned
by
him
,
should
scape
Scotfree
for
his
fraude
,
albeit
the
Reader
should
not
be
satisfyed
with
the
exposition
of
the
place
.
80.
But
you
will
say
perhaps
,
that
albeit
M.
Collins
doth
not
name
my
Lord
,
nor
mention
my
obiection
of
fraud
to
his
Lordship
,
yet
it
may
be
hath
cleared
him
sufficiently
of
the
imputation
,
if
he
haue
proued
,
that
Epiphanius
condemned
prayer
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
no
lesse
then
sacrifice
.
But
how
hath
he
proued
it
?
Forsooth
,
he
sayth
thus
pag
.
388.
num
.
24.
Epiphanius
yo●
say
,
neuer
reprehended
praying
to
the
Virgin
Mary
,
but
sacrifice
only
in
the
Colliridian
gossipps
.
And
was
their
sacrifice
without
prayer
?
Or
could
it
well
be
?
Remember
I
pray
you
,
your
owne
principles
;
then
shew
where
Epiphanius
reprouing
sacrifice
,
excepts
praying
,
and
condemnes
not
all
their
foppery
in
grosse
:
yet
he
scans
the
point
nicely
,
and
shews
what
we
may
giue
to
the
Virgin
without
offence
,
what
we
may
not
,
in
all
which
,
of
prayer
not
a
word
he
vouchsafes
her
.
Thus
indeed
sayth
M.
Collins
,
euen
as
much
to
the
purpose
,
as
if
he
had
sayd
iust
nothing
.
81.
For
what
need
I
deny
either
that
the
prayer
of
these
Idolaters
concurred
with
their
sacrifice
,
or
that
Epiphanius
condemned
them
both
?
Seeing
that
(
as
wel
their
prayer
,
as
their
sacrifice
)
was
idolatrous
,
being
offred
to
a
creature
,
as
to
God
.
As
also
the
like
may
be
said
euen
of
any
act
of
worship
or
reuerence
done
to
any
man
,
or
other
creature
as
to
God
,
either
with
prayer
,
or
without
it
,
in
which
respect
the
Christians
in
the
tyme
of
Iulian
the
Apostata
,
would
not
do
any
reuerence
to
his
Image
when
it
was
painted
with
the
Image
of
Iupiter
,
because
they
would
not
seeme
to
do
an
act
of
Idolatry
to
Iupiter
;
wheras
they
vsed
to
do
reuerence
to
the
Image
of
the
Emperour
,
when
it
was
alone
,
as
it
is
testifyed
by
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
orat
.
1.
in
Iulian
.
And
no
doubt
the
Collyridian
gossips
did
acts
of
worship
,
&
veneration
togeather
with
their
sacrifice
,
&
prayer
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
;
which
acts
,
were
in
like
manner
condemned
by
S.
Epiphanius
in
grosse
withall
their
soppery
(
as
M.
Collins
saith
very
well
)
and
yet
I
hope
,
he
will
not
say
,
therefore
that
all
acts
of
worships
or
reuerence
done
to
creatures
are
vnlawfull
:
wherby
you
may
see
how
wisely
he
argueth
,
and
how
like
a
Doctor
of
Diuinity
,
to
reiect
all
prayer
to
Saints
,
because
Idolatrous
prayer
is
to
be
reiected
,
not
prouing
prayer
to
Saints
to
be
idolatrous
,
which
neither
he
,
nor
his
fellow
Ministers
shall
euer
be
able
to
proue
.
82.
For
as
sacrifice
may
be
lawfull
,
and
vnlawful
,
so
also
we
may
say
of
prayer
.
Sacrifice
offered
to
God
is
most
lawfull
,
but
offered
to
a
creature
is
most
vnlawfull
,
yea
abominable
;
so
also
prayer
made
to
almighty
God
as
God
,
or
to
a
Saint
as
a
Saint
,
(
that
is
to
a
creature
acceptable
to
God
)
is
lawfull
,
and
behouefull
;
but
made
to
a
Saint
,
or
to
any
other
creature
as
to
God
,
is
idolatrous
and
execrable
:
so
as
my
Lord
of
Winchester
ought
to
haue
made
a
great
difference
betwixt
the
prayer
of
Iustina
the
holy
Mayd
in
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
and
that
other
of
the
Collyridian
Gossips
in
Epiphanius
;
for
the
former
was
made
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
not
as
to
God
,
but
as
to
a
creature
(
yet
the
Mother
of
God
)
and
so
was
lawfull
and
good
,
whereas
the
other
prayer
was
made
to
her
,
not
as
to
a
creature
,
but
as
to
God
,
and
consequently
was
vnlawfull
and
detestable
;
and
therefore
my
Lord
(
if
I
may
be
bould
to
say
it
)
ouerlashed
very
much
,
and
greatly
abused
S.
Epiphanius
,
when
he
said
that
,
Epiphanius
reprehended
the
prayer
of
Iustina
in
the
Collyridian
Gossips
and
M.
Collins
did
very
wisely
to
passe
it
with
silence
,
and
become
dumbe
,
when
he
could
not
tell
how
to
defend
,
or
excuse
it
.
83.
And
this
might
suffice
for
this
point
,
were
it
not
that
his
glosse
vpon
S.
Epiphanius
is
not
only
most
false
,
and
absurd
,
but
also
most
iniurious
to
the
blessed
,
and
immaculate
Mother
of
God
;
in
which
respect
,
I
cannot
omitte
to
discouer
as
well
his
impiety
as
his
absurdity
therin
:
and
because
he
is
so
ample
in
it
,
that
it
cannot
be
confuted
in
a
few
wordes
,
I
will
make
it
the
subiect
of
the
next
Chapter
.
An
impious
and
absurd
glosse
of
M.
Collins
vpon
a
discourse
of
S.
Epiphanius
against
the
Collyridian
Heretikes
is
examined
,
and
proued
to
be
partly
repugnant
to
the
text
of
that
holy
Father
,
and
partly
opposite
to
the
beliefe
,
and
doctrine
of
his
Maiesty
;
and
finally
blasphemous
,
and
most
iniurious
to
the
immaculate
Moth●r
of
God
,
whose
honour
is
defended
throughout
the
whole
Chapter
.
CHAP.
VIII
.
BEING
now
to
examine
M.
Collins
his
absurd
,
and
impious
glosse
vpon
S.
Epiphanius
against
the
Collyridian
Heretikes
,
I
find
to
be
verifyed
in
him
,
that
which
our
Sauiour
sayd
Matth
.
7.
that
as
he
is
wise
who
builds
his
house
vpon
a
rocke
,
so
is
he
a
foole
that
builds
it
vpon
the
sand
,
(
that
is
to
say
vpon
a
weake
and
false
foundation
)
as
M.
Collins
hath
done
heer
,
hauing
founded
all
the
frame
of
his
building
(
I
meane
al
the
weight
and
force
of
his
arguments
)
vpon
two
false
suppositions
.
The
one
,
that
the
honour
which
we
giue
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
is
idolatry
.
And
the
other
,
that
the
adoration
,
which
S.
Epiphanius
denyeth
to
her
,
is
the
adoration
,
and
honour
that
we
doe
yield
her
;
which
two
points
are
most
false
;
for
S.
Epiphanius
(
whome
he
gloseth
)
impugneth
,
&
condemneth
only
the
Idolatry
of
the
Collyridian
Heretikes
,
against
whome
he
wrote
,
and
by
the
way
,
inueigheth
against
the
Idols
of
the
Paynims
,
vsing
throughout
all
his
discourse
,
the
word
adoration
for
diuine
honor
,
wherin
he
doth
not
touch
vs
at
all
,
who
do
not
giue
any
diuine
honour
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
and
much
lesse
to
her
Image
,
or
to
any
creature
;
so
that
a●
our
Sauiour
sayd
of
the
fools
house
,
that
the
winds
blew
,
and
the
house
fell
,
so
may
I
say
of
M.
Collins
his
braue
building
,
that
one
puff
or
blast
of
a
bare
denyall
will
ouerthrow
it
.
And
therfore
he
should
first
haue
proued
his
grounds
soundly
,
before
he
made
his
inferences
vpon
them
,
and
so
his
large
Comment
vpon
S.
Epiphanius
might
haue
seemed
at
least
,
to
haue
beene
to
some
purpose
;
whereas
now
it
serueth
to
no
other
end
,
but
to
discouer
his
folly
,
and
his
impious
,
&
blasphemous
humour
against
the
most
blessed
,
and
glorious
Mother
of
God
;
in
which
respect
I
will
take
a
little
paynes
to
examine
it
briefly
,
and
to
defend
the
due
honour
done
to
her
by
Catholikes
,
so
farre
,
as
his
Comment
shal
giue
me
occasion
:
and
to
that
end
I
most
humbly
craue
both
her
leaue
and
assistance
with
this
versicle
of
the
Church
;
Dignare
me
laudare
te
Virgo
sacrata
,
da
mihi
virtutem
contra
hostes
tuos
:
Vouchsafe
to
giue
me
leaue
,
Holy
Virgin
,
to
prayse
thee
,
&
giue
me
force
(
or
strength
)
against
thy
enemyes
.
2.
Now
then
to
the
end
it
may
appeare
,
that
S.
Epiphanius
forbidding
the
adoration
of
the
B.
Virgin
,
meaneth
only
diuin
adoration
,
or
worship
,
is
it
to
be
vnderstood
that
these
foolish
women
(
of
whome
he
wrote
)
held
her
to
be
God
,
and
therefore
speaking
of
them
haeres
.
78.
he
sayth
,
that
Sanctam
semper
Virginem
pro
Deo
introducere
sluduerint
,
they
laboured
to
introduce
the
holy
euer
Virgin
for
God
.
And
that
therefore
they
vsed
to
do
sacrifice
vnto
her
;
in
which
respect
he
sayth
also
afterwards
:
Cesset
itaque
error
seductorum
,
neque
enim
est
Deus
Maria
,
neque
de
Caelo
corpus
habens
&c.
let
the
errour
of
these
seduced
people
cease
;
for
Mary
is
not
God
,
neither
hath
she
a
body
from
heauen
,
but
by
the
conception
of
a
man
and
woman
.
And
againe
afterwards
haeres
.
79.
Reuerà
sanctum
erat
corpus
Mariae
,
non
tamen
Deus
&c.
truely
the
body
of
Mary
was
holy
,
yet
not
God
,
she
was
indeed
a
Virgin
,
and
honourable
,
but
not
giuen
vs
to
be
adored
,
but
she
adoring
him
,
who
was
borne
of
her
in
flesh
.
So
he
.
Whereby
it
is
euident
,
that
he
denyeth
her
only
that
ador●tion
,
which
she
gaue
vnto
her
sonne
,
that
is
to
say
,
diuine
honor
as
to
God
.
3.
And
to
this
purpose
he
sayth
further
,
that
God
the
Word
tooke
flesh
of
the
Virgin
,
yet
not
to
the
end
that
she
should
be
adored
,
nor
to
make
her
a
God
nor
that
we
should
offer
sacrifice
in
her
name
;
nor
that
she
should
find
wom●n
priests
&
she
sacrificers
after
so
many
Ages
.
In
all
which
it
is
manifest
,
that
those
foolish
women
,
held
the
Blessed
Virgin
to
be
God
,
and
adored
her
with
sacrifice
(
which
is
diuine
honour
due
to
God
alone
.
)
And
therfore
S.
Epiphanius
proueth
also
very
amply
,
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
in
the
last
Chapter
num
.
74.
that
it
was
neuer
heard
,
or
read
of
in
the
ould
or
new
Testament
,
that
there
were
women-priests
,
which
might
offer
sacrifice
.
Finally
in
the
same
sense
,
and
to
●he
same
purpose
,
he
saith
all
the
rest
touching
Adoration
,
which
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
●nd
obiecteth
to
vs
,
as
,
Mariam
nemo
adoret
,
●et
no
man
adore
Mary
:
Deo
debetur
hoc
mysterium
,
this
mistery
is
due
to
God
;
etsi
pulcherrima
est
Maria
&
sancta
,
&
honorata
,
at
non
ad
adorationem
,
albeyt
Mary
be
most
fayre
,
&
holy
,
and
honourable
,
yet
not
to
be
adored
;
&
lastly
,
Maria
in
honore
sit
,
Dominus
adoretur
,
let
Mary
be
honoured
,
and
our
Lord
adored
.
4.
All
this
saith
Saint
Epiphanius
,
and
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
it
,
with
certaine
other
sentences
,
which
shall
also
be
considered
after
a
whyle
:
but
by
all
this
which
I
haue
cyted
,
it
is
euident
,
that
those
Collyridian
gossips
,
holding
the
blessed
Virgin
for
a
God
,
committed
flat
Idolatry
,
offering
sacrifice
vnto
her
,
as
her
Priests
;
and
that
therefore
Saint
Epiphanius
worthily
forbiddeth
all
such
adoration
to
be
exhibited
to
her
,
or
to
any
other
creature
;
teaching
neuerthelesse
,
that
she
is
to
be
honoured
as
the
mother
of
God
,
though
not
to
be
adored
as
God
:
whereby
it
appeareth
that
M.
Collins
,
hath
belyed
Saint
Epiphanius
notably
,
whom
he
affirmeth
not
to
adiudge
to
her
any
adoration
at
all
of
what
kynde
soeuer
;
for
if
she
be
to
be
honoured
,
she
is
to
receiue
some
kynde
of
adoration
,
seeing
that
the
word
adoration
signifieth
not
only
diuine
honour
,
and
worship
(
in
which
sense
Saint
Epiphanius
taketh
it
here
)
but
also
religious
,
and
ciuill
worship
,
as
I
haue
proued
so
amply
,
and
clearely
in
my
Adioynder
,
out
of
the
holy
scriptures
,
and
fathers
,
that
M.
Collins
himself
graunteth
both
the
different
vse
,
and
acception
of
the
words
,
and
also
the
different
kynd
of
worship
,
or
honour
signified
thereby
;
for
he
graunteth
the
ciuill
adoration
,
though
absurdly
he
denyeth
the
religious
,
calling
that
ciuill
which
is
testified
in
the
scripture
to
haue
beene
done
to
Angells
,
and
holy
men
,
as
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
shew
amply
,
and
to
discouer
his
folly
withall
,
in
the
tenth
Chapter
.
But
that
which
I
wish
to
be
noted
for
the
present
,
is
,
his
detestable
impiety
,
seeing
that
in
excluding
the
most
blessed
mother
of
God
from
all
adoration
of
what
kind
soeuer
,
he
doth
not
only
exclude
her
from
the
religious
worship
,
&
adoration
which
the
church
doth
yeild
her
,
but
also
from
the
ciuill
adoration
,
which
he
himself
graunteth
may
be
giuen
to
mortall
,
and
sinfull
men
:
so
as
yf
shee
should
appeare
to
any
(
as
she
hath
done
to
many
)
she
might
not
be
adored
so
much
as
ciuilly
,
with
cap
,
and
knee
,
or
bowing
of
the
body
,
which
is
a
kind
of
ciuil
adoration
,
that
may
be
vsed
to
any
man
of
quality
.
5.
But
will
you
heare
how
Saint
Epiphanius
himselfe
checketh
this
fellow
,
haeres
78.
writing
against
such
others
as
he
,
I
meane
certaine
hereticks
called
Antidicomarianitae
,
that
is
,
sayth
he
,
Aduersarij
Mariae
velut
inimicitiam
aduersus
Virginem
habentes
,
&
gloriam
illius
extenuare
volentes
&c.
The
Aduersaryes
of
Mary
,
bearing
,
as
it
were
,
emnity
agaynst
the
Virgin
,
and
desyring
to
extenuate
her
glory
&c.
to
whome
he
sayth
thus
:
Who
is
he
that
out
of
the
aboundance
of
an
affected
madnes
,
would
frame
some
blasphemous
opinions
,
open
his
mouth
,
and
loose
his
tongue
out
of
a
wicked
mynd
?
Immò
pro
hymnis
&
gloria
,
yea
insteed
of
Hymnes
,
and
glory
,
inuent
,
and
vtter
drunken
,
and
contumelious
speaches
against
the
holy
Virgin
?
Et
vas
honoratum
non
colere
,
and
not
to
honour
(
or
worship
)
that
honorable
Vessell
&c.
Thus
sayth
Saint
Epiphanius
.
For
the
better
vnderstanding
whereof
,
yt
is
to
be
considered
,
that
he
wryteth
this
against
certaine
Heretikes
,
who
did
teach
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
was
not
allwayes
a
Virgin
,
but
that
she
had
children
by
S.
Ioseph
after
the
byrth
of
Christ
:
to
which
purpose
I
wish
3.
things
to
be
noted
.
6.
The
first
,
that
if
M.
Collins
be
not
of
the
same
opinion
,
he
is
not
far
from
it
according
to
the
principles
of
his
maister
Caluin
,
Beza
,
&
other
sectaryes
,
who
teach
that
the
B.
Virgin
made
no
vow
of
chastity
,
or
it
she
did
,
that
she
was
not
bound
to
obserue
it
:
so
as
according
to
their
doctrine
she
might
haue
done
(
if
not
better
,
yet
)
at
least
as
wel
to
haue
had
the
company
of
her
husband
,
(
being
marryed
)
as
to
conserue
her
virginity
,
which
they
hold
to
be
of
no
greater
merit
then
mariage
;
wherupon
it
followeth
that
if
M.
Collins
agree
in
opinion
with
his
maisters
Caluin
,
Beza
,
&
other
Sectaries
(
his
brethren
in
the
Lord
)
he
hath
no
small
affinity
,
&
participation
with
the
Antidicomarianita
,
whom
Saint
Epiphanius
confuteth
,
and
condemneth
for
enemyes
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
and
most
blasphemous
heretiks
.
7.
The
second
thing
which
I
wish
to
be
noted
is
,
that
albeit
S.
Epiphanius
,
make
no
particuler
mention
of
any
other
dishonour
that
those
hereticks
did
her
,
eyther
in
word
,
or
deed
;
yet
it
may
be
gathered
by
this
,
which
I
haue
here
alleadged
out
of
him
,
that
they
refused
to
do
her
publick
honour
,
and
seruice
,
with
hymnes
,
and
glory
,
as
the
Church
vseth
,
which
you
see
,
he
blameth
and
vtterly
condemneth
,
not
only
in
them
,
but
also
consequently
in
M.
Collins
,
and
all
his
fellows
,
who
do
in
that
poynt
fully
participate
with
them
.
8.
The
third
is
,
that
it
is
euident
by
this
place
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
that
he
is
so
farre
from
denying
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
all
adoration
of
what
kind
soeuer
,
that
he
expresly
condemneth
those
which
do
not
honour
,
and
glorify
her
with
Hymnes
and
Prayses
,
which
is
part
of
the
worship
,
and
adoration
that
the
Church
doth
exhibite
vnto
her
,
and
is
denyed
her
by
M.
Collins
,
who
therefore
is
heere
ouertaken
euery
way
,
&
proued
not
only
to
be
one
of
those
blasphemous
Heretiks
(
or
at
least
cozen-german
to
them
)
but
also
to
haue
shamefully
belyed
S.
Epiphanius
,
in
making
him
deny
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
all
adoration
.
9.
Lastly
,
it
is
cleare
by
all
the
premises
,
that
S.
Epiphanius
denyeth
no
other
adoration
or
worship
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
then
all
Catholikes
do
,
that
is
to
say
diuine
adoration
,
in
which
respect
he
condemneth
,
and
worthily
derideth
the
Idolatry
of
those
fantasticall
women
who
made
her
a
God
,
&
did
sacrifice
to
her
as
her
priests
,
which
we
should
no
lesse
detest
,
and
deride
,
then
he
,
if
any
vsed
the
like
at
this
tyme
.
10.
But
perhaps
he
will
say
,
that
although
we
do
not
worship
her
with
diuin
adoration
,
yet
we
giue
her
more
then
is
doe
vnto
her
in
the
opinion
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
who
alloweth
lesse
honor
vnto
her
,
thē
to
holy
men
,
and
farre
lesse
then
to
Angells
.
This
indeed
M.
Collins
laboureth
to
proue
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
;
and
as
he
is
very
ready
to
take
hold
of
euery
thing
that
may
seeme
any
way
to
diminish
the
honour
,
and
glory
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
he
first
obserueth
,
that
S.
Epiphanius
wisheth
it
to
be
noted
in
the
holy
Scripture
,
that
our
Sauiour
called
her
Woman
Ioan
.
2.
at
the
Marriage
in
Cana
of
Galilee
,
saying
to
her
(
when
she
tould
him
that
there
wanted
wine
)
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
mulier
?
Nondum
venit
hora
mea
What
haue
I
to
do
with
thee
woman
?
My
houre
is
not
yet
come
:
to
the
end
that
some
might
not
thinke
that
the
holy
Virgin
was
more
excellent
,
as
it
were
foreshewing
what
should
happen
in
the
world
by
sects
,
and
heresies
,
that
some
through
too
great
admiration
of
that
holy
woman
,
might
not
slyde
into
heresy
,
and
the
dotage
thereof
;
for
in
very
truth
all
this
passage
is
nothing
els
,
but
a
meere
mockery
,
and
an
old
womans
tale
.
11.
Thus
sayth
S.
Epiphanius
cyted
by
M.
Collins
,
wherein
there
is
nothing
that
may
iustly
be
taken
,
as
sayd
in
disgrace
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
if
we
consider
that
S.
Epiphanius
,
writing
against
those
giddy
headed
women
,
who
made
her
God
,
had
reason
to
vrge
what
he
could
,
concerning
the
infirmity
of
her
nature
,
&
sexe
,
to
correct
their
exorbitant
conceipt
of
her
diuinity
;
as
he
that
would
make
streight
a
crooked
sticke
,
doth
bend
it
backe
the
other
way
,
as
farre
as
he
may
without
breaking
it
:
&
therefore
when
he
wrote
immediatly
before
against
those
which
were
her
enemyes
(
to
wit
the
Antidicomarianitae
(
M.
Collins
his
Cozen-germans
)
he
vrged
her
eminent
dignity
in
being
the
mother
of
God
,
and
called
her
Matrem
viuentium
,
the
Mother
of
the
liuing
,
&
causam
vitae
,
and
the
cause
of
life
to
all
true
Christians
,
detesting
the
blasphemy
and
drunken
madnes
of
those
which
sought
to
extenuate
her
glory
,
as
I
haue
partly
signifyed
before
,
and
shall
haue
occasion
to
declare
further
heereafter
.
12.
Therefore
whereas
our
aduersaries
are
wont
to
make
great
vse
of
those
wordes
of
our
Sauiour
to
his
Blessed
Mother
,
to
proue
the
little
esteeme
he
made
of
her
,
in
calling
her
woman
,
and
saying
vnto
her
:
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
mulier
?
We
may
well
say
,
that
if
the
whole
passage
and
story
be
wel
considered
,
it
maketh
exceeding
much
for
her
prayse
,
and
proueth
cleerely
the
force
of
her
prayers
,
&
intercession
for
vs
;
seeing
it
appeareth
thereby
,
that
the
only
insinuation
of
her
desire
to
haue
the
want
of
wyne
supplyed
(
though
it
were
by
a
miracle
)
was
so
powerfull
with
our
Sauiour
,
that
he
was
content
to
satisfy
her
desire
,
the
tyme
being
not
yet
come
,
for
the
working
of
that
miracle
,
which
he
signifyed
,
saying
,
nondum
venit
hora
mea
,
my
tyme
is
not
yet
come
,
and
therfore
I
say
it
may
wel
be
thoght
,
that
to
the
end
it
might
appeare
how
much
he
esteemed
and
honoured
her
,
and
of
what
force
her
intercession
should
alwayes
be
with
him
,
he
ordayned
to
doe
his
first
miracle
,
as
it
were
out
of
tyme
,
and
at
her
suite
and
request
,
or
rather
vpon
the
very
insinuation
of
her
desire
,
for
she
sayd
only
to
him
,
Vinum
non
habent
,
they
haue
no
wine
.
This
may
be
confirmed
out
S.
Ambrose
serm
.
16.
in
psal
.
118.
S.
Cyril
.
lib
.
2.
cap
.
23.
and
S.
Chrysostome
hom
.
21.
who
affirme
that
our
Sauiour
did
that
miracle
sooner
then
otherwayes
he
would
haue
done
,
at
the
request
of
his
Mother
,
13.
But
then
you
will
aske
me
,
why
did
he
reprehend
her
saying
:
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
Mulier
&c.
what
haue
I
to
do
with
thee
woman
?
Wherto
I
answere
,
that
it
may
well
be
gathered
by
that
which
followeth
that
it
was
no
reprehension
,
but
an
honour
to
her
;
and
therefore
S.
Iustinus
sayth
quaest.
126
Non
verbo
matrem
obiurgauit
,
cùm
eam
sacto
honorauit
,
Christ
did
not
chide
,
or
reprehend
●i●
mother
,
when
he
honoured
her
with
the
fact
.
Also
S.
Cyril
sayth
lib
.
2.
cap
.
23.
Quantus
honor
parentibus
&c.
Christ
shewed
how
great
honour
is
due
to
parents
,
seeing
that
he
presently
did
the
act
(
that
is
to
say
,
he
wrought
the
miracle
)
propter
Matrem
for
his
Mother
;
besides
that
it
may
wel
be
thought
that
if
he
had
reprehended
her
for
it
,
she
would
not
haue
persisted
in
her
desire
,
and
much
lesse
would
she
haue
insisted
vpon
the
performance
of
it
,
as
she
did
saying
presently
to
the
seruants
:
Quodcumque
vobis
dixerit
sacite
,
do
whatsoeuer
he
shall
say
vnto
you
;
whereby
it
appeareth
that
she
and
our
Sauiour
vnderstood
one
another
well
inough
,
and
that
he
was
so
farre
from
reprehending
her
,
that
he
graunted
her
request
,
and
that
she
knew
it
(
notwithstanding
that
answere
,
)
and
also
knew
that
he
meant
to
giue
order
to
the
seruantes
to
doe
somewhat
for
the
execution
of
it
,
and
therupon
she
sayd
to
them
,
Doe
whatsoeuer
he
shall
command
you
,
as
S.
Cyril
teacheth
expresly
vbi
supra
cap
.
24.
saying
thus
:
The
Mother
of
Christ
was
not
ignorant
,
that
he
did
deserre
,
or
attribute
great
authority
and
dignity
vnto
her
,
who
hauing
perswaded
(
or
induced
him
to
do
the
miracle
)
in
such
manner
as
was
conuenient
,
did
dispose
,
and
exhort
the
seruants
to
do
all
that
which
he
should
command
them
.
So
he
.
14.
Therefore
albeit
there
are
different
opinions
,
and
interpretations
of
those
wordes
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
mulier
?
Yet
that
which
is
most
common
&
most
probable
,
is
,
that
for
as
much
as
she
demanded
of
him
a
miracle
,
which
surpassed
the
power
of
nature
,
and
was
to
be
done
by
him
as
he
was
God
,
he
vsed
those
wordes
,
shewing
lesse
respect
vnto
her
,
then
otherwayes
might
seeme
conuenient
from
a
Sonne
to
his
Mother
;
to
leaue
vs
this
document
,
that
in
things
pertaining
to
Almighty
God
and
to
his
seruice
,
no
respect
is
to
be
had
to
flesh
and
bloud
;
and
therfore
S.
Bernard
obserueth
very
well
serm
.
2.
Dom
.
1.
post
octan
.
Epiphan
.
that
Christ
vsed
that
manner
of
speach
,
non
propter
Matrem
,
sed
propter
nos
,
not
for
his
Mother
,
but
for
vs
,
that
is
to
say
,
for
our
instruction
;
for
which
cause
also
he
seemed
to
make
small
accompt
of
his
Mother
and
kinsfolkes
,
when
some
interrupted
his
preaching
,
and
tould
him
that
his
Mother
and
brethren
sought
for
him
Matth
.
12.
Quae
,
sayth
he
,
est
mater
mea
&c.
who
is
my
Mother
,
and
who
are
my
Brethren
?
And
then
holding
out
his
hands
towardes
his
disciples
,
he
sayd
:
Behould
my
Mother
,
and
behould
my
brethren
&c.
In
like
manner
he
seemed
to
speake
to
his
Mother
,
and
to
S.
Ioseph
with
small
respect
Luc
.
2.
when
they
found
him
in
the
Temple
,
&
tould
him
that
they
had
sought
him
with
sorrow
:
Quid
est
,
sayth
he
,
quod
me
quaercbatis
&c.
Why
did
you
seeke
me
?
Did
you
not
know
,
that
I
must
imploy
my selfe
in
those
things
which
belonge
to
my
Father
?
And
yet
the
Euangelist
testifyeth
in
the
same
place
presently
after
,
that
he
went
with
them
to
Nazareth
,
&
erat
subditus
illis
,
and
was
subiect
to
them
,
that
is
to
say
,
in
all
domesticall
dutyes
,
and
such
things
as
belonged
to
his
humanity
.
And
this
interpretation
of
those
words
,
quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
mulier
?
(
to
wit
that
he
spake
to
her
as
he
was
God
,
and
not
as
he
was
man
)
is
conforme
to
the
opinion
of
S.
Augustine
vpon
this
place
tract
.
119.
lib
.
de
fide
,
&
simbolo
cap
.
4.
lib
.
2.
de
fide
ad
Catechum
.
cap
.
5.
S.
Gregory
lib
.
8.
Reg
.
cap
.
42.
Theophil
.
Antiochen
.
lib
.
4.
allegor
.
Gaudentius
tract
.
9.
de
Euangel
.
lection
.
S.
Beda
&
Euthymius
in
their
commentaryes
vpon
this
Ghospell
.
15.
And
as
for
the
obseruation
of
S.
Epiphanius
that
our
Sauiour
called
her
woman
,
I
say
,
that
albeit
there
want
not
good
Authours
,
who
do
expound
it
rather
to
her
commendation
then
otherwayes
(
as
that
he
called
her
woman
per
excellentiam
,
for
the
excellency
of
her
person
,
as
being
the
chiefe
woman
,
in
which
respect
,
she
is
also
called
only
Mary
,
many
tymes
,
as
the
chiefe
Mary
;
which
I
obserue
heere
the
rather
,
because
M.
Collins
noteth
in
his
margent
out
of
S.
Hierome
,
that
he
calleth
her
only
Mary
,
Mary
)
neuertheles
I
do
not
deny
but
that
S.
Epiphanius
might
among
other
reasons
probably
conceiue
that
our
Sauiour
foreseeing
that
heresy
of
the
Collyridians
(
who
esteemed
&
serued
her
as
God
)
called
her
a
woman
,
to
arme
vs
against
that
heresy
,
and
dotage
of
theirs
;
but
this
no
way
concerneth
vs
who
do
know
,
and
acknowledge
her
to
be
a
woman
,
and
a
meere
creature
of
God
,
as
all
others
both
men
,
and
women
,
and
Angells
are
;
and
therefore
M.
Collins
sheweth
more
malice
,
then
wit
,
to
apply
this
to
vs.
Besides
that
,
I
cannot
omit
to
note
by
the
way
,
a
pretty
sleight
of
his
,
not
voyde
of
fraud
,
in
his
allegation
and
translation
of
this
place
of
S.
Epiphanius
.
16.
For
wheras
that
Father
alleadging
those
words
of
the
holy
Scripture
,
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
mulier
?
addeth
therto
curae
,
and
hath
them
thus
:
Quid
mihi
&
tibi
est
curae
mulier
?
that
is
to
say
,
Woman
what
haue
I
,
and
thou
to
do
with
it
?
M.
Collins
setting
downe
the
text
of
S.
Epiphanius
at
large
,
leaueth
out
curae
both
in
the
Latin
,
and
in
the
English
,
and
translateth
the
Latin
thus
,
what
haue
I
to
do
with
thee
woman
?
Which
wordes
of
our
Sauiour
,
as
S.
Epiphanius
readeth
,
and
vnderstandeth
them
,
not
only
in
this
place
(
alleadged
by
M.
Collins
)
but
also
haeres
.
51.00
not
containe
any
asperity
and
sharpnes
at
all
,
and
therefore
M.
Collins
thought
it
better
to
falsify
S.
Epiphanius
,
though
he
himselfe
alleadgeth
him
,
then
by
alleadging
him
truely
to
giue
some
inkling
of
a
more
mild
exposition
and
sense
thereof
;
albeit
the
same
is
not
the
interpretation
of
S.
Epiphanius
only
,
but
also
of
Iustinus
quaest.
136.
Euthymius
in
his
Commentary
vpon
this
Ghospell
,
and
of
diuers
others
both
ancient
and
moderne
;
but
howsoeuer
those
words
are
to
be
vnderstood
,
they
doe
nothing
preiudice
our
cause
who
do
not
deny
our
Blessed
Lady
to
be
a
woman
,
and
much
lesse
do
make
her
a
God
:
besids
that
,
the
whole
context
of
that
story
which
S.
Epipha
.
only
toucheth
,
doth
notably
proue
the
great
power
,
and
force
of
the
B.
Virgins
prayers
,
&
intercession
to
her
Sonne
,
(
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
)
and
therefore
may
very
well
incite
,
and
moue
vs
to
haue
recourse
vnto
her
,
that
she
may
recommend
vs
,
and
our
necessityes
vnto
him
.
17.
And
now
to
proceed
with
M.
Collins
his
comment
;
after
he
cyteth
these
wordes
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
:
Quae
verò
Scriptura
de
hoc
narrauit
?
Quis
Prophetarum
praecepit
hominem
adorari
,
nedum
mulierem
?
that
is
.
What
Scripture
informeth
vs
heereof
?
Which
of
the
Prophets
commanded
any
man
to
be
worshiped
,
much
lesse
a
Woman
?
See
you
how
he
reduceth
this
Controuersy
to
Scripture
?
Yet
the
Adioynder
makes
no
reckoning
of
Scripture
in
this
question
,
so
we
haue
miracles
,
and
traditions
,
and
other
obseruations
.
Well
it
was
lawfull
for
Epiphanius
to
fly
to
that
,
Quae
verò
Scriptura
,
and
Quis
Prophetarum
praecepit
&c.
See
you
also
how
he
prefers
not
a
few
before
the
Virgin
?
For
we
must
not
worship
man
,
sayth
he
,
much
lesse
a
Woman
,
belike
though
it
be
the
Virgin
her selfe
:
Eximium
quidem
est
vas
,
sed
Mulier
,
&
nihil
à
natura
immutata
,
that
is
,
An
excellent
Vessell
she
is
no
doubt
,
but
yet
a
woman
,
and
not
a
whit
changed
in
regard
of
her
nature
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
with
more
which
shallbe
examined
anon
.
18.
Now
whereas
he
noteth
very
seriously
in
S.
Epiphanius
,
that
he
reduceth
this
controuersy
to
Scripture
,
and
that
neuertheles
the
Adioynder
makes
no
reckoning
of
scripture
in
this
question
,
truly
he
is
very
seriously
idle
in
saying
so
,
and
the
rather
because
he
chargeth
the
Adioynder
,
with
contempt
of
Scripture
,
without
telling
vs
where
he
fyndeth
it
,
or
what
the
Adioynder
sayth
to
that
purpose
;
and
therefore
,
I
omitt
to
answere
it
,
as
one
of
his
fooleryes
,
not
worth
the
answering
,
and
wish
to
be
obserued
in
the
rest
what
a
friend
he
is
to
the
blessed
Virgin
,
whome
he
depriueth
of
all
honour
,
and
worship
,
yea
more
then
any
man
,
by
reason
of
the
naturall
infirmity
of
her
sexe
,
as
being
stil
a
woman
,
and
not
a
whit
changed
in
regard
of
her
nature
;
which
reason
as
it
is
vsed
by
S.
Epiphanius
,
might
make
it
cleare
inough
to
M.
Collins
(
if
he
were
not
willfully
and
malitiously
blind
)
that
the
worship
wherof
he
treateth
,
&
which
he
denyeth
more
to
women
,
then
to
men
,
is
onely
diuine
worship
;
for
so
the
argument
of
Saint
Epiphanius
is
very
good
,
whereas
otherways
it
were
absurd
,
and
he
should
contradict
himself
;
to
which
purpose
it
is
to
be
considered
,
that
diuine
adoration
,
or
worship
can
be
due
to
none
,
who
hath
not
true
diuinity
;
and
for
as
much
as
diuinity
must
needs
be
naturall
(
for
God
is
God
by
nature
,
and
not
by
grace
)
it
followeth
euidently
,
that
if
a
man
,
who
is
by
nature
more
perfect
then
a
woman
,
cannot
haue
true
diuinity
(
nor
consequently
diuyne
worship
(
much
lesse
can
a
woman
haue
it
,
and
therefore
the
blessed
Virgin
being
still
a
woman
(
though
glorifyed
)
is
much
lesse
capable
of
diuinity
,
and
consequently
of
diuine
honour
then
a
man
;
and
thus
I
say
the
Argument
of
S.
Epiphanius
is
good
.
19.
But
if
we
vnderstand
worship
(
not
as
it
is
diuine
,
but
as
it
may
be
due
to
creatures
(
participating
of
the
diuine
excellency
)
the
argument
of
S.
Epiphanius
will
be
nothing
worth
,
&
so
wil
become
to
be
the
argument
of
M.
Collins
as
indeed
it
is
,
and
not
of
S.
Epiphanius
:
&
this
I
say
,
because
a
woman
,
though
she
be
inferiour
to
a
man
by
nature
,
yet
by
grace
may
farre
excell
him
,
and
consequently
deserue
a
farre
greater
worship
then
he
;
so
as
that
learned
Father
was
neuer
so
simple
,
to
make
such
an
argument
as
M.
Collins
would
haue
him
to
do
,
as
first
to
exclude
all
men
from
all
kind
of
worship
(
which
were
ridiculous
)
and
thē
to
inferre
also
thereupon
,
that
no
woman
ought
to
be
worshipped
.
For
albeit
Almighty
God
had
not
,
or
would
not
bestow
so
much
grace
vpon
any
man
,
as
to
make
him
worthy
of
worship
,
yet
he
might
bestow
it
vpon
some
woman
,
or
vpon
all
women
if
it
pleased
him
,
and
consequently
make
them
more
worthy
of
worship
,
then
any
man
,
which
is
indeed
veryfied
in
the
B.
Virgin
,
who
albeit
by
nature
she
be
inferiour
to
any
man
,
yet
by
grace
she
excelleth
all
men
,
yea
and
all
Angells
,
as
shal
be
declared
after
a
whyle
:
whereupon
it
followeth
that
she
deserueth
more
worship
then
they
all
.
20.
Moreouer
I
haue
made
it
manifest
allready
(
and
therefore
need
not
to
repeat
it
)
that
S.
Epiphanius
teacheth
expresly
that
the
most
B.
Virgin
,
is
to
be
honoured
,
or
worshipped
with
hymnes
and
glory
,
and
that
he
inueigheth
bitterly
against
those
,
who
refuse
to
do
it
,
so
as
he
should
contradict
himselfe
most
ridiculously
if
he
should
exclude
her
from
all
worship
;
eyther
in
respect
of
the
infirmity
of
her
sexe
,
or
for
any
other
cause
whatsoeuer
,
albeyt
he
hath
reason
to
debarre
her
from
diuine
honour
,
because
neyther
she
,
nor
humane
nature
is
any
way
capable
therof
.
21.
But
let
vs
follow
M.
Collins
a
little
further
,
thus
then
he
proceedeth
.
Honoured
she
is
,
but
as
the
bodyes
of
Saints
:
&
if
I
may
say
any
more
towards
the
magnifying
of
her
,
sicut
Elias
,
sicut
Ioannes
,
sicut
Te●la
,
like
Elias
,
lyke
Iohn
,
lyke
Tecla
:
only
herein
(
sayth
Epiphanius
more
honorable
then
Tecla
,
that
she
was
imployed
to
be
the
instrument
of
the
misterious
birth
of
our
Lord
;
but
suppose
she
be
like
only
to
other
Saints
may
not
they
be
worshipped
?
sed
neque
Elias
adorandus
est
,
etiamsi
in
viuis
sit
;
neque
Ioannes
adorandus
,
neque
Tecla
,
neque
quisquam
sanctus
adoratur
:
not
only
no
dead
Saints
,
but
not
so
much
as
they
that
neuer
dyed
may
be
adored
&c.
neyther
Elias
is
to
be
adored
,
nor
Iohn
to
be
adored
,
nor
Tecla
nor
any
Saint
is
to
be
adored
&c.
So
he
,
wherin
it
is
to
be
obserued
.
22.
First
,
that
S.
Epiphanius
doth
euen
in
these
words
alleadged
heer
by
M.
Collins
,
not
only
distinguish
betwixt
diuyne
adoration
,
and
the
honour
due
to
the
blessed
Virgin
;
but
also
teach
expresly
,
that
she
,
&
the
Saints
,
yea
&
their
very
reliks
are
to
be
honoured
,
which
also
is
more
euident
and
effectuall
in
the
text
of
S.
Epiphanius
thē
as
M.
Collins
abridgeth
,
and
glosseth
it
.
For
S.
Epiphanius
hauing
asked
the
question
,
Quis
prophetarum
&c.
Which
of
the
prophets
did
euer
commaund
that
any
man
should
be
adored
much
lesse
a
woman
?
addeth
presently
touching
the
blessed
Virgin
thus
:
Eximium
est
&c.
truly
the
is
a
notable
Vessel
,
yet
a
woman
,
and
nothing
changed
in
regard
of
her
nature
:
Verum
&
intellect●
&
sensu
in
honore
honorata
,
sicut
corpora
sanctorum
&c.
but
honoured
both
in
vnderstanding
and
sense
(
that
is
to
say
both
with
internall
,
and
externall
honour
)
as
the
bodyes
of
Saints
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Epiphanius
,
with
the
rest
that
followeth
set
downe
by
M.
Collins
concerning
Elias
,
Iohn
,
and
Tecla
;
wherin
it
is
manifest
that
he
denyeth
to
the
blessed
Virgin
diuine
worship
only
,
and
acknowledgeth
that
there
is
due
vnto
her
an
inferiour
honour
both
mentall
,
and
corporall
,
such
as
may
be
done
to
creatures
,
namely
to
the
bodyes
,
or
relikes
of
Saints
,
to
Elias
,
to
Iohn
,
and
to
Tecla
;
affirming
neuertheles
that
the
blessed
Virgin
is
more
to
be
honoured
then
Tecla
,
because
she
was
the
mother
of
God
;
by
which
reason
she
is
also
more
honorable
then
eyther
Elias
,
or
Iohn
,
or
any
other
holy
man
or
woman
,
seeing
she
had
that
particuler
priuiledge
aboue
all
other
creaturs
.
23.
Therefore
for
as
much
as
honour
is
to
be
exhibited
to
any
one
more
or
lesse
;
according
to
the
greater
,
or
lesser
tytles
,
&
considerations
that
moue
thereto
,
it
followeth
that
the
blessed
Virgin
hauing
the
greatest
title
of
honour
that
euer
creature
had
,
(
to
wit
to
be
the
mother
of
God
)
is
more
to
be
honoured
then
any
other
creature
,
euen
according
to
the
argument
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
yet
so
,
as
not
to
arryue
to
diuine
honour
,
and
therfore
he
sayth
,
sed
neque
Ec●●
adorandus
est
&c.
but
neyther
Elias
is
to
be
adored
,
neyther
yet
Iohn
,
nor
Tecla
,
nor
any
other
Saint
is
to
be
adored
,
that
is
to
say
as
a
God
,
or
with
diuine
honour
;
for
if
wee
should
take
adoration
here
for
any
other
the
diuyne
worship
,
S.
Epiphanius
should
contradict
himself
in
denying
to
Elias
,
Iohn
,
and
Tecla
,
the
honour
that
heere
he
alloweth
them
,
acknowledging
that
the
blessed
Virgin
is
to
be
honoured
like
to
them
;
besydes
that
S.
Epiphanius
who
was
most
conuersant
in
the
holy
scripture
(
as
appeareth
in
his
workes
)
should
haue
forgot
himselfe
very
much
in
denying
to
Elias
all
odoration
,
seeing
the
scripture
doth
testify
3.
Reg
.
18.
that
Abdias
(
who
although
he
was
steward
to
the
wicked
King
Achab
,
yet
was
himselfe
a
man
that
feared
God
)
did
an
act
of
adoration
to
Elias
,
falling
vpon
his
face
before
him
,
which
the
prophet
would
not
haue
permitted
if
it
had
not
beene
lawful
;
wherto
I
may
add
the
example
of
the
adoration
done
by
the
children
of
the
Prophets
to
Elizaeus
when
they
saw
,
by
his
miraculous
passage
of
the
Riuer
,
that
God
had
giuen
him
the
spirit
of
Elias
,
adorauerunt
eum
,
sayth
the
Scripture
,
proni
in
terram
,
they
adored
him
falling
flat
vpon
the
ground
4.
Reg
.
2.
and
therefore
when
S.
Epiphanius
asketh
quis
prophetarum
&c.
Which
of
the
Prophets
,
did
euer
command
that
a
man
should
be
adored
,
he
meant
not
thereby
to
deny
to
men
all
adoration
,
but
only
diuine
worship
,
for
otherwayes
Abdias
should
haue
erred
greatly
in
adoring
Elias
;
and
the
children
of
the
Prophets
in
adoring
Elizaeus
.
24.
But
will
you
see
how
well
M.
Collins
gloseth
those
wordes
.
Sed
neque
Elias
adorandus
est
etiamsi
in
viuis
sit
,
but
neither
Elias
is
to
be
adored
,
though
he
be
liuing
?
Wherupon
he
sayth
,
Not
only
no
dead
Saint
,
but
not
so
much
as
they
that
neuer
dyed
may
be
adored
.
So
he
.
Ful
wisely
contradicting
the
text
with
his
glosse
,
except
he
take
adored
there
to
signify
diuine
honour
;
for
you
see
S.
Epiphanius
,
sayth
expresly
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
is
to
be
honoured
,
as
the
bodyes
of
Saints
,
(
that
is
to
say
,
the
dead
bodyes
of
Saints
deceased
)
and
albeit
he
say
that
Elias
is
still
liuing
,
yet
he
acknowledgeth
both
Iohn
,
&
Tecla
to
be
dead
,
and
yet
to
be
honoured
,
for
otherwayes
he
could
not
say
that
the
B.
Virgin
is
to
be
honoured
like
to
them
,
if
they
were
not
to
be
honoured
at
al
;
thogh
it
be
true
that
neither
they
,
nor
Elias
,
nor
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
are
to
be
adored
,
taking
adored
to
signify
diuine
honour
,
as
indeed
S.
Epiphanius
vseth
it
there
,
and
throughout
all
his
discourse
.
25.
And
as
well
to
the
purpose
is
also
another
glosse
of
his
shortly
after
vpon
the
same
words
,
saying
:
Was
it
not
possible
,
that
Epiphanius
should
light
vpon
your
distinction
of
diminitiue
adoration
,
that
so
often
,
so
peremptory
denyes
it
to
the
Saints
,
that
it
is
lawfull
to
adore
them
,
and
neuer
expounds
himselfe
?
So
he
.
To
which
wise
question
of
his
,
I
answere
,
that
it
was
nor
only
possible
,
that
S.
Epiphanius
should
light
vpon
our
distinction
,
but
also
that
he
did
light
vpon
it
indeed
,
and
sufficiently
expound
himselfe
;
for
when
he
sayth
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
let
Mary
be
honoured
,
and
God
adored
;
and
that
Mary
is
holy
and
honoured
,
but
not
to
be
adored
;
&
againe
that
she
is
honoured
both
by
vnderstanding
and
sense
(
that
is
to
say
,
both
with
internall
,
and
externall
honour
)
and
yet
not
to
be
adored
,
he
light
vpon
our
distinction
of
diminitiue
adoration
(
as
it
pleaseth
M.
Collins
to
tearme
it
)
or
rather
to
giue
it
the
right
terme
,
our
distinction
of
dulia
,
and
latria
;
for
by
the
adoration
which
he
denyeth
to
the
Blessed
Virgin
he
signifyeth
latriam
,
that
is
to
say
,
diuine
honour
,
and
by
the
honour
which
he
granteth
her
he
signifyeth
duliam
,
that
is
to
say
,
an
inferiour
honour
due
to
creatures
,
for
the
honour
of
God
;
yea
and
when
he
sayth
further
that
she
is
more
honourable
then
Tecla
,
because
she
was
the
Mother
of
God
,
(
wherein
she
excelleth
all
creatures
)
he
signifyeth
hyperduliam
,
that
is
to
say
,
superlatiue
honour
aboue
all
other
,
which
honour
is
indeed
due
,
and
proper
to
her
in
respect
of
her
supereminent
dignity
,
and
excellency
by
being
the
Mother
of
God
.
26.
Therfore
when
S.
Epiphanius
sayth
that
she
is
to
be
honoured
,
as
the
bodyes
of
Saints
,
as
Elias
,
as
Iohn
,
as
Tecla
,
his
meaning
is
not
that
she
cannot
receaue
a
greater
degree
of
honour
then
they
,
but
that
she
is
to
be
honoured
with
the
same
kind
of
honour
that
they
are
,
that
is
to
say
with
an
honour
due
to
creatures
,
&
not
with
that
which
is
due
to
the
Creatour
,
she
being
a
creature
as
well
as
they
,
and
no
more
capable
of
diuinity
,
or
of
diuine
honour
then
they
.
27.
For
if
we
do
not
vnderstand
S.
Epiphanius
so
,
we
must
say
also
that
his
meaning
was
,
that
the
bodyes
of
Saints
,
Elias
,
Iohn
,
and
Tecla
,
should
be
all
honoured
with
like
and
equall
honour
;
as
that
neither
Elias
,
nor
Iohn
,
nor
Tecla
could
be
honoured
more
or
in
any
greater
degree
then
the
dead
body
of
a
Saint
,
nor
that
they
could
be
honoured
one
more
then
another
,
which
were
absurd
to
say
;
for
as
there
may
be
difference
of
their
degree
of
merit
,
or
participation
of
the
diuine
excellency
;
so
may
also
the
degree
and
measure
of
their
honour
be
different
:
to
which
purpose
the
Apostle
sayth
of
the
glory
of
Gods
Saints
1.
Cor
.
15.
That
as
one
starre
differs
from
another
in
brightnes
,
so
shal
it
be
in
the
resurrection
of
the
dead
.
And
our
Sauiour
also
sayth
Ioan
.
14.
That
there
are
many
mansions
in
the
house
of
his
Father
;
giuing
to
vnderstand
that
there
are
different
degrees
of
glory
amongst
the
Saints
in
respect
of
their
different
merits
,
whyles
they
were
heer
on
earth
;
and
for
this
cause
the
Church
doth
solemnize
the
feasts
of
Saints
with
great
difference
,
honouring
some
more
then
others
,
yet
all
as
creatures
,
and
seruants
of
God
;
in
which
respect
the
kind
of
honour
that
is
giuen
them
is
all
one
,
but
the
degree
and
measure
thereof
is
different
.
28.
The
like
is
also
euident
in
temporall
honour
due
to
a
King
and
his
subiects
;
for
the
King
is
honoured
with
kingly
honour
due
to
none
but
to
himselfe
,
and
the
subiects
are
honoured
with
an
inferiour
honour
,
such
as
may
be
giuen
to
subiects
,
and
the
same
also
in
a
different
degree
,
to
some
more
,
and
to
some
lesse
,
as
their
different
quality
,
or
the
Kings
pleasure
requyreth
,
and
the
greatest
honour
of
all
,
next
to
the
King
is
giuen
to
the
Kings
Mother
,
yet
as
to
a
subiect
;
Euen
so
I
say
of
the
honour
due
to
God
,
and
to
his
Saints
,
and
seruants
;
for
the
honour
due
to
him
,
is
diuine
and
peculiar
to
himselfe
,
and
the
honour
that
is
done
to
his
Saints
and
seruants
is
of
another
kind
,
not
extending
it selfe
further
then
to
the
consideration
of
creatures
,
whom
he
will
haue
to
be
honoured
;
and
yet
within
that
limit
,
the
degree
of
honour
is
different
according
to
their
different
merits
,
and
glory
resulting
thereon
:
and
because
the
Blessed
Virgin
is
the
Mother
of
God
,
and
thereby
farre
surpasseth
them
all
in
dignity
and
merit
,
the
honour
due
to
her
is
of
far
higher
degree
,
and
yet
of
infinite
distance
from
diuine
honour
,
as
much
as
is
betwixt
the
Creatour
and
the
creature
;
so
as
neither
the
Saintes
liuing
,
nor
dead
,
nor
the
Mother
of
God
herselfe
is
adored
in
the
sense
that
S.
Epiphanius
forbiddeth
it
,
that
is
to
say
with
diuine
honour
;
and
therefore
M.
Collins
his
glosse
hitherto
is
most
false
,
and
absurd
.
29.
I
omit
certaine
other
impertinent
fooleryes
of
his
,
not
worth
the
mentioning
,
and
much
lesse
the
answering
.
To
come
to
his
Achilles
,
I
meane
to
his
argument
,
which
he
thinketh
doth
ouerthrow
vs
horse
and
foote
,
and
therefore
he
bids
me
arrige
aures
Pamphile
;
albeit
insteed
thereof
,
he
might
haue
done
well
to
haue
made
vse
of
his
Epphata
,
to
open
my
eares
;
but
I
hope
to
stop
his
mouth
with
Obmutesce
.
Wel
then
you
shal
heare
his
whole
discourse
;
thus
he
sayth
pag
.
393.
lin
.
7.
Yet
let
vs
goe
on
with
Epiphanius
,
a
step
further
,
Coluerunt
enim
&
adorauerunt
creaturam
praeter
Creatorem
&c.
It
is
a
trespasse
with
Epiphanius
,
to
worship
the
creature
,
or
to
adore
the
creature
(
for
he
puts
both
)
praeter
Creatorem
,
besydes
the
Creatour
,
that
is
,
though
you
exclude
not
the
worship
of
the
Creatour
,
but
only
take
in
the
worship
of
the
creature
:
si
enim
Angelos
adorari
non
vult
,
quanto
magis
eam
quae
genita
est
ab
Anna
?
&c.
non
tamen
aliter
genita
est
praeter
hominum
naturam
;
sed
sicut
omnes
ex
semine
viri
,
&
vtero
mulieris
.
Heere
,
heer
,
arrige
aures
Pamphile
,
heer
you
should
do
wel
to
list
a
whyle
,
you
Poliphilus
,
or
rather
Pamphilus
,
of
all
bastard
Deityes
.
For
if
,
sayth
he
,
God
will
not
haue
the
Angells
worshiped
,
how
much
more
will
not
be
haue
her
which
was
borne
of
Anna
,
&
yet
not
borne
otherways
,
then
the
fashion
is
,
and
nature
of
all
mankynd
;
but
&c.
Two
great
poynts
assoyled
by
Epiphanius
in
these
few
words
;
one
,
that
the
Virgin
Mary
,
was
not
conceiued
nor
borne
after
extraordinary
manner
,
as
the
Iesuits
affirme
,
but
euen
as
others
are
,
which
must
needs
be
in
sinne
,
and
corruption
.
Another
,
that
she
is
not
so
exalted
in
heauen
,
but
inferiour
to
Angells
,
or
els
the
consequence
were
not
good
;
if
not
Angells
much
lesse
Mary
the
daughtes
of
Anne
.
Thus
hath
Collyns
spit
out
his
spyte
against
the
blessed
Virgin
to
impugne
her
immaculate
purity
,
&
the
transcendent
degree
of
glory
which
she
worthily
possesseth
in
heauen
.
30.
But
first
to
say
somewhat
though
very
briefly
,
to
his
preamble
therto
;
wheras
he
obserueth
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
that
he
held
it
for
a
trespasse
to
worship
or
adore
the
creature
besides
the
Creatour
,
that
is
,
sayth
he
,
to
take
in
the
worship
of
the
creature
,
though
we
exclude
not
the
worship
of
the
Creatour
,
there
is
no
doubt
,
but
that
it
is
most
true
;
for
God
is
a
iealous
God
,
and
cannot
endure
to
haue
any
fellows
,
or
companions
in
diuine
adoration
,
that
is
to
say
,
that
any
shal
be
adored
for
God
,
or
with
diuine
honour
besides
himselfe
,
and
therefore
he
sayth
of
all
kind
of
Idolls
Exod
.
20.
Non
adorabis
ea
,
neque
coles
,
ego
sum
Dominus
Deus
tuus
,
fortis
,
zelotes
&c.
Thou
shalt
not
adore
them
,
nor
worship
them
,
I
am
thy
Lord
God
,
strong
,
and
iealous
.
And
againe
,
Exodus
34.
Noli
adorare
Deumalienum
,
Dominus
zelotes
nomen
eius
.
Do
not
adore
a
strange
God
,
a
iealous
Lord
is
his
name
;
and
what
doth
S.
Epiphanius
in
effect
say
more
then
this
?
For
speaking
there
of
the
ould
errour
as
he
calleth
it
of
the
Pagan
Idolatours
,
he
sayth
:
Coluerunt
&
adorauerunt
creaturam
praeter
Creatorem
,
&
stulii
facti
sunt
,
they
worshipped
and
adored
the
creature
besides
the
Creatour
,
&
became
fools
;
for
whether
a
man
do
worship
Idols
togeather
with
God
as
the
Kinges
of
Israell
did
,
or
alone
without
him
,
as
the
Pagans
did
,
he
committeth
most
abominable
Idolatry
,
and
becomes
a
foole
;
and
when
M.
Collins
shal
proue
that
we
do
either
of
both
,
we
will
grant
that
S.
Epiphanius
taxeth
vs
iustly
both
of
folly
and
Idolatry
,
no
lesse
,
then
the
ould
Idolatours
,
or
the
Collyridian
women
against
whome
he
wrote
;
and
in
the
meant
tyme
M.
Collins
proues
himselfe
to
be
a
notable
foole
to
alleadge
,
and
vrge
this
discourse
of
S.
Epiphanius
against
vs
,
whome
it
no
way
concerneth
.
31.
But
now
to
come
to
his
doughty
argument
,
which
is
this
:
If
God
wil
not
haue
(
saith
Saint
Epiphanius
)
the
Angells
to
be
adored
,
how
much
more
will
be
not
haue
her
,
that
was
borne
of
Anna
,
&
yet
not
borne
otherwayes
,
then
according
to
the
nature
of
all
mankind
,
but
euen
as
all
others
are
by
the
seed
of
a
man
,
and
by
the
wombe
of
a
woman
.
Thus
indeed
sayth
S.
Epiphanius
,
prouing
very
well
and
substantially
,
that
which
we
do
not
deny
,
to
wit
,
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
being
by
nature
inferiour
to
Angells
,
is
not
to
be
adored
with
Godly
honour
,
because
the
Angells
cannot
be
so
adored
,
neuertheles
I
would
willingly
know
of
M.
Collins
heere
by
the
way
,
whether
he
wil
say
that
S.
Epiphanius
denyed
heerby
,
that
Angells
might
be
adored
in
any
sense
,
seeing
that
is
most
euident
(
and
that
holy
Father
could
not
be
ignorant
of
it
)
that
Abraham
,
Lot
,
and
Iosue
adored
Angels
prostrate
vpon
the
ground
Gen.
18.
&
19.
&
Iosue
5.
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
;
therefore
M.
Collins
must
either
admit
a
diminitiue
adoration
(
as
he
tearmeth
it
)
or
charge
those
holy
men
with
Idolatry
,
and
S.
Epiphanius
with
ignorance
,
and
errour
,
in
forbidding
the
adoration
of
Angels
warranted
by
examples
in
holy
Scripture
.
But
taking
adoration
heer
as
S.
Epiphanius
meant
it
,
for
diuine
honour
,
it
is
most
true
,
that
Angells
are
not
to
be
adored
,
because
their
nature
is
not
capable
of
diuinity
,
or
diuine
honour
,
and
much
lesse
the
Virgin
Mary
,
who
is
by
nature
inferiour
both
to
them
,
&
to
men
;
in
which
respect
S.
Epipha
.
also
made
the
like
argument
before
,
à
maiori
ad
minus
,
betwixt
men
&
her
;
that
because
men
who
were
by
nature
superiour
to
her
,
cannot
be
worshipped
with
diuine
honour
,
much
lesse
could
she
be
,
&
the
reason
is
all
one
in
both
.
32.
And
therefore
S.
Epiphanius
vrgeth
heere
expresly
,
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
was
not
other
wayes
borne
,
then
after
the
ordinary
manner
of
all
mankind
,
to
shew
that
his
Argument
is
grounded
only
vpon
the
nature
of
men
,
and
Angells
;
whereby
the
consequence
is
very
good
,
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
cannot
be
adored
as
God
,
because
her
nature
is
lesse
capable
of
diuinity
,
then
is
the
Angelicall
nature
,
which
can
admit
no
such
adoration
;
so
as
for
this
point
there
was
no
great
need
that
Maister
Collins
,
should
say
to
me
arrige
aures
Pamphile
:
and
indeed
it
seemeth
he
thought
so
himselfe
,
for
he
doth
not
much
enforce
or
vrge
it
,
thogh
it
is
that
which
most
concerneth
the
present
question
;
but
he
hath
found
out
two
other
points
(
yea
,
two
great
ones
as
he
tearmeth
them
)
and
sayth
they
are
assoyled
by
Epiphanius
in
these
few
words
;
One
,
sayth
he
,
that
the
Virgin
Mary
was
not
conceaued
,
nor
borne
after
extraordinary
manner
(
as
the
Iesuits
affirme
)
but
euen
as
others
are
,
which
must
needs
be
in
sinne
,
and
corruption
.
This
is
the
first
point
,
which
neuerthelesse
you
must
vnderstand
to
be
his
owne
inference
vpon
Saint
Epiphanius
,
and
not
any
consequence
drawne
by
that
holy
Father
,
who
doth
not
any
way
cal
in
question
,
&
much
lesse
impugne
,
the
immaculate
purity
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
.
33.
Now
then
M.
Collins
his
argument
must
be
this
.
The
Virgin
was
conceaued
,
and
borne
after
the
ordinary
manner
of
al
men
and
women
,
Ergo
she
was
borne
in
sin
and
corruption
;
and
to
make
good
his
argument
(
which
I
will
deny
)
he
will
say
,
no
doubt
,
that
the
ordinary
manner
of
the
conception
,
and
birth
of
all
men
,
and
women
according
to
Epiphanius
,
is
to
be
conceaued
,
and
borne
in
sinne
,
Ergo
the
Virgin
Mary
was
also
conceaued
and
borne
in
sin
;
but
I
will
still
deny
his
argument
,
and
tell
him
that
S.
Epiphanius
will
teach
him
how
to
distinguish
the
ordinary
manner
of
her
conception
,
and
birth
;
for
he
signifyeth
plainely
,
that
his
meaning
was
no
other
,
but
that
she
had
both
a
Father
,
and
Mother
by
whome
she
was
engendred
,
and
procreated
as
all
other
children
are
,
but
whether
in
sinne
,
or
without
sin
,
he
neither
sayth
,
nor
insinuateth
so
much
as
a
word
;
for
he
sayth
only
:
That
she
was
borne
of
Anna
,
&
〈◇〉
Ioachim
data
est
Annae
,
and
of
Ioachim
was
giuen
to
Anna
,
and
not
otherwayes
ingendred
then
according
to
the
nature
of
men
,
sed
sicut
omnes
ex
semine
viri
,
&
vtero
mulicris
,
but
as
all
are
by
the
seed
of
a
man
,
and
the
wombe
of
a
woman
.
And
then
addeth
further
:
That
although
the
history
of
Mary
,
and
traditions
do
signify
,
that
it
was
sayd
to
her
Father
Ioachim
in
the
desert
,
Thy
wise
hath
conceaued
,
yet
not
that
it
was
done
sine
coniugio
,
nec
sine
semine
viri
,
without
marriage
,
or
without
the
company
of
man
&c.
Thus
sayth
S.
Epiphanius
;
so
as
by
the
ordinary
manner
of
her
conception
,
and
birth
whereof
he
speaketh
,
he
signifyeth
nothing
els
,
but
that
she
had
(
as
I
haue
sayd
)
a
Father
and
a
Mother
,
by
whome
she
was
engendred
as
all
other
children
are
,
and
not
conceaued
without
the
company
of
man
,
as
our
Sauiour
was
;
for
so
he
signifyeth
also
afterwards
,
saying
that
he
alone
was
conceaued
and
borne
besides
the
course
of
nature
,
and
that
soli
ipsi
natura
cessit
,
nature
yeilded
to
him
alone
in
that
behalfe
.
34.
What
then
can
M.
Collins
draw
out
of
all
this
to
proue
that
she
was
conceaued
and
borne
in
sinne
?
May
not
all
this
be
truly
sayd
of
Ieremy
the
Prophet
,
who
neuertheles
was
sanctifyed
in
his
Mothers
wombe
Ierem
.
cap
.
1.
that
is
to
say
purifyed
&
purged
from
originall
sin
,
as
the
ancient
Fathers
of
the
Church
do
testify
,
to
wit
,
S.
Athanasius
serm
.
4.
contra
Arrianos
,
Origen
.
ho
.
1.
in
Hierem
.
S.
Ambrose
de
fide
lib
.
4.
cap
.
4.
S.
Hierom
.
li
.
4.
in
Hierē
.
c
.
23.
The
like
is
also
testifyed
by
all
the
Fathers
of
S.
Iohn
Baptist
,
as
by
S.
Athan
.
vbi
supra
,
S.
Cyprian
.
Ep.
73.
ad
Iulian
&
ep
.
76.
ad
Magnum
.
c
.
4.
S.
Hierom
.
in
c
.
1.
in
Hierem
.
S.
Ambrose
in
Luc
.
Orig
hom
4
in
Luc
.
S.
Chrysost
.
ser
.
1.
in
Luc
.
S.
Gregor
.
l.
3.
moral
ca.
4.
and
many
others
whom
I
omit
as
needles
,
seing
the
scripture
it self
doth
clearely
witnes
the
same
Luc
.
1.
where
the
Angell
said
of
him
,
before
he
was
borne
,
&
spiritu
sancto
replebitur
adhuc
ex
vtero
matris
suae
,
he
shal
be
replenished
with
the
holy
Ghost
euen
from
the
wombe
of
his
mother
:
whereupon
I
infer
,
that
as
they
were
sanctified
by
particuler
priuiledge
before
they
were
borne
,
beeing
only
to
be
the
prophets
of
God
;
so
might
she
also
with
farre
greater
reason
be
preserued
from
sinne
,
and
sanctified
in
her
conception
by
like
priuiledge
,
being
to
be
the
mother
of
God
,
and
yet
be
ingendred
by
her
father
and
mother
,
and
borne
after
the
ordinary
manner
as
they
were
:
for
it
is
not
to
be
doubted
but
that
God
did
giue
to
his
mother
,
farre
greater
grace
,
and
priuiledge
,
then
he
euer
gaue
to
any
other
creature
:
therefore
Hyppolitus
the
Martyr
sayth
well
orat
.
de
sanctificat
.
that
,
qui
dixit
honorae
patrem
&
matrem
&c.
he
which
said
honour
thy
father
&
thy
mother
,
did
bestow
al
grace
,
and
honour
vpon
his
mother
,
to
obserue
the
decree
published
by
himselfe
.
35.
For
this
cause
Origen
1.
ex
varijs
,
calleth
her
immaculatam
&
dignam
matrem
dig●i
&
immaculati
filij
,
the
immaculate
,
and
worthy
mother
of
a
worthy
,
and
immaculate
sonne
.
S.
Cyprian
.
lib
.
de
natiuitate
Christi
,
sayth
of
her
,
that
she
was
farre
different
from
all
other
,
communicating
with
them
in
nature
,
but
not
in
fault
;
and
afterwards
againe
,
Matri
,
sayth
he
,
plenitudo
gratia
debebatur
&c.
the
plenitude
,
or
fullnes
,
of
grace
was
due
vnto
her
,
as
to
the
mother
(
of
God
)
and
more
aboundant
glory
,
as
a
Virgin
,
who
excelled
in
integrity
both
of
body
,
and
soule
.
S.
Athanasius
affirmeth
ser
.
in
Euangel
.
de
sanctissima
Deip
.
that
she
was
,
semper
&
vndequaque
beatissima
,
allwayes
,
and
euery
way
most
blessed
;
whereupon
it
followeth
that
she
was
neuer
defiled
with
any
sinne
originall
,
or
actuall
;
which
he
also
teacheth
more
expresly
in
the
same
place
,
a
little
before
,
saying
that
she
had
the
vertue
of
the
holy
ghost
per
omnia
tempora
etiam
conceptus
sui
;
in
all
tymes
euen
in
the
tyme
of
her
conception
.
S.
Ambrose
also
ser
.
22.
in
Psal
.
118.
sayth
that
she
was
,
Virgo
per
gratiam
,
&
integra
ab
omni
labe
peccati
,
a
Virgin
by
grace
,
and
pure
from
all
spot
of
sinne
.
Sophron
in
an
Epistle
of
his
which
may
be
seene
in
6.
synodo
Act.
11.
saith
that
,
she
was
deliuered
from
all
contagion
,
of
body
,
soule
,
and
vnderstanding
.
36.
Lastly
to
omit
many
others
,
S.
Austin
lib
.
de
natura
&
grat
.
c
.
36.
(
where
he
proueth
against
the
Pelagians
,
that
no
man
is
without
sin
,
no
not
the
very
infants
,
in
whom
there
can
be
no
sinne
but
originall
)
sayth
that
when
there
is
any
speach
or
question
of
sin
,
〈◇〉
will
,
sayth
he
,
make
no
question
of
the
Virgin
mother
,
for
we
know
that
more
grace
was
giuen
to
her
●d
vincendum
omni
ex
parte
peccatum
,
for
the
totall
ouercomming
of
sinne
,
because
she
deserued
●o
conceiue
,
and
bring
forth
him
,
who
,
wee
know
,
●ad
no
sinne
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
giuing
●o
vnderstand
,
that
as
our
Sauiour
Christ
●er
sonne
,
was
himselfe
most
pure
,
and
●ree
from
all
spot
of
sinne
,
so
he
gaue
her
greater
purity
then
euer
was
giuen
to
any
woman
,
or
infant
that
she
might
be
free
●rom
sinne
omni
ex
parte
,
wholy
&
fully
lyke
●o
himselfe
,
that
is
to
say
free
,
as
well
from
●riginall
,
as
from
all
actuall
sinne
.
For
if
〈◇〉
.
Augustine
did
not
conclude
so
,
his
excep●ion
of
her
,
from
the
common
rule
euen
of
infants
was
of
no
force
,
seeing
that
he
treated
there
of
sinne
in
generall
,
prouing
against
the
Pelagians
,
that
no
humane
treature
,
not
the
very
infants
,
could
be
wholy
free
from
sinne
,
and
therefore
if
she
were
euer
soyled
with
originall
sinne
(
which
is
the
only
sinne
of
infants
)
she
could
not
be
with
reason
excepted
,
in
that
question
of
sinne
,
neyther
was
she
free
omni
ex
parto
euery
way
.
37.
But
although
there
were
no
testimonyes
of
the
ancient
Fathers
to
proue
her
incontaminate
purity
in
this
behalf
,
yet
very
reason
might
suffice
to
teach
the
same
,
seeing
that
it
cannot
with
reason
,
be
thought
that
Almighty
God
,
would
suffer
his
mother
to
be
at
any
tyme
the
daughter
of
wrath
,
and
consequently
slaue
to
the
diuell
;
whereupon
it
would
also
follow
,
that
his
own
flesh
which
he
tooke
of
her
,
was
once
in
the
diuels
power
,
and
subiect
to
malediction
,
which
me
thinks
no
piou●
eares
should
indure
to
heare
.
If
then
it
be
conforme
to
reason
&
piety
,
to
thinke
that
the
blessed
virgin
was
conceaued
withou●
sinne
,
it
must
needs
be
absurd
and
impiou●
to
affirme
,
as
Collins
doth
,
that
she
was
n●●
only
conceaued
,
but
also
borne
in
sinne
.
38.
For
albeit
there
is
,
and
alway●●
hath
beene
Controuersy
(
not
yet
decided
by
the
Church
)
whether
she
contracted
originall
sinne
in
her
Conception
(
as
all
other
child●en
do
)
or
was
preserued
wholy
from
it
by
a
particuler
priuiledg
,
yet
it
was
neuer
doubted
(
except
by
known
Heretiks
)
but
that
she
was
sanctifyed
and
deliuered
from
it
in
her
Mothers
wombe
;
so
as
the
Catholike
Church
hath
euer
held
that
she
was
borne
immaculate
and
pure
from
all
spot
of
sinne
,
with
a
far
greater
sanctification
,
then
Hieremy
the
Prophet
,
or
S.
Iohn
Baptist
had
.
And
of
this
,
I
say
,
neither
S.
Epiphanius
,
nor
any
other
Father
,
or
good
Christian
euer
doubted
,
yea
,
and
it
is
acknowledged
by
the
very
Turks
,
&
taught
by
Mahomet
in
his
Alcoran
Aro
.
75.
in
these
words
:
Nullus
nascitur
de
filijs
Adam
,
quem
non
tangat
Satan
,
praeter
Mariam
&
eius
filium
.
None
is
borne
of
the
Sonnes
of
Adam
,
whome
Satan
doth
not
touch
,
except
Mary
&
her
Son
:
whereto
may
be
added
also
the
constant
opinion
of
the
Rabbins
of
the
Iewes
,
which
may
be
seene
in
Galatinus
contra
Iudaeos
cap
.
7.
which
I
haue
only
thought
good
to
mention
heere
,
as
also
the
foresayd
testimony
of
Mahomet
,
not
so
much
to
confirme
our
doctrine
,
as
to
shew
that
euen
Turkes
,
and
Iewes
haue
a
more
reuerent
opinion
of
the
Blessed
Virgin
then
M.
Collins
hath
.
38.
Now
then
to
returne
to
his
argument
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
;
you
may
iudge
by
this
vniforme
and
constant
doctrine
of
the
ancient
Fathers
touching
the
incontaminate
purity
of
this
glorious
Virgin
how
impiously
he
hath
argued
,
that
she
was
conceaued
,
and
borne
in
sinne
,
and
corruption
,
because
S.
Epiphanius
sayth
that
she
was
conceaued
,
and
borne
ex
semine
viri
&
vtero
mulieris
,
of
the
seed
of
a
man
,
and
wombe
of
a
woman
,
as
all
other
children
are
,
which
ordinary
manner
of
conception
,
and
birth
we
easily
graunt
not
only
of
her
,
but
also
as
I
haue
sayd
of
Hieremy
the
Prophet
,
and
S.
Iohn
Baptist
,
who
neuertheles
were
purifyed
,
&
sanctifyed
in
their
Mothers
wombe
,
by
the
testimonyes
both
of
Scriptures
,
and
Fathers
;
wherupon
I
say
it
followeth
that
seeing
it
was
conuenient
(
as
S.
Anselme
sayth
lib
.
concept
.
Virginis
cap
.
18.
)
that
the
Blessed
virgin
,
who
was
to
be
the
Mother
of
God
,
should
shyne
,
and
be
endowed
with
so
great
a
purity
,
as
a
greater
vnder
God
cannot
be
imagined
,
a
greater
sanctification
was
due
to
her
,
then
either
to
those
Prophets
of
God
,
or
to
the
very
Angels
:
in
which
respect
the
7.
Synod
act
.
3.
doth
style
her
not
only
immaculatam
,
immaculate
,
but
also
omni
sensibili
,
&
intellectuali
●●tura
puriorem
,
more
pure
then
any
sensible
or
intellectuall
nature
.
Loe
then
,
how
one
of
the
two
great
points
,
which
M.
Collins
sayth
is
assoyled
by
S.
Epiphanius
,
proueth
to
be
a
very
little
point
,
and
not
worth
a
pynne
,
only
it
hath
serued
to
discouer
his
beastly
,
and
blasphemous
humour
in
labouring
in
vayne
to
stayne
the
vnspotted
purity
of
the
most
blessed
and
glorious
Mother
of
God
.
49.
Now
let
vs
examine
the
other
great
point
which
he
inferreth
vpon
S.
Epiphanius
his
words
,
that
the
Blessed
Virgin
is
not
so
exalted
in
heauen
as
we
belieue
she
is
,
but
that
she
is
inferiour
to
Angells
;
and
this
he
sayth
because
S.
Epiphanius
affirmeth
that
if
God
will
not
haue
Angells
adored
,
much
lesse
will
he
haue
her
to
be
adored
which
was
borne
of
Anna
,
whereupon
M.
Collins
sayth
:
That
if
she
were
not
inferiour
to
Angells
,
the
consequence
were
not
good
,
if
not
Angells
much
lesse
Mary
the
daughter
of
Anna
.
So
indeed
argueth
he
,
but
not
S.
Epiphanius
in
that
sense
,
whose
consequence
is
very
good
to
the
purpose
he
maketh
it
,
but
not
as
M.
Collins
applyeth
it
.
You
heard
before
the
force
of
this
consequence
which
S.
Epiphanius
drew
from
that
ground
;
to
wit
that
because
the
nature
of
Angels
was
vncapable
of
diuinity
,
and
consequently
of
diuine
adoration
,
therefore
the
nature
of
the
blessed
Virgin
being
inferiour
to
the
nature
of
Ang●ls
,
was
lesse
capable
of
both
,
whereupon
it
followeth
that
she
is
neyther
God
,
nor
to
be
adored
with
diuyne
honour
:
but
how
doth
this
make
her
now
inferiour
to
Angells
in
glory
,
seeing
shee
is
not
glorifyed
by
nature
,
but
by
grace
,
whereof
there
is
neyther
mention
,
not
question
in
this
place
of
S.
Epiphanius
?
41.
For
albeyt
she
could
not
be
God
eyther
by
nature
,
or
by
grace
,
yet
she
might
be
,
yea
and
was
by
grace
capable
of
glory
according
to
the
measure
of
the
grace
,
wherwith
Almighty
God
did
endow
her
,
and
therefore
for
as
much
as
she
was
not
only
gratia
plena
,
ful
of
grace
,
and
blessed
among
al
women
by
the
testimony
of
the
Angel
Gabriel
,
but
also
dignified
with
a
greater
title
of
honour
then
euer
any
creature
had
,
being
made
the
mother
of
God
(
whereby
she
was
both
more
neere
,
and
deere
to
God
her
sonne
then
any
other
creature
)
therefore
she
is
most
worthily
exalted
in
glory
aboue
all
creatures
,
as
well
Angels
as
men
.
42.
This
is
clearely
and
aboundantly
testifyed
by
the
ancient
Fathers
,
who
I
thinke
are
as
well
to
be
belieued
as
M.
Col●ins
.
The
ancient
Liturgy
of
S.
Iames
doth
cal
●e●
:
Omnibus
modis
irreprehensam
,
honorabiliorem
●uam
Cherubim
,
&
gloriosiorem
quàm
Seraphim
.
Wholy
irreprehensible
,
more
honourable
then
the
Cherubim
,
and
more
glorious
then
the
Seraphim
.
43.
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
in
his
Tragedy
de
Christo
patiente
,
saluteth
her
thus
:
All
hayle
gratious
mayd
,
Mother
,
and
Virgin
of
all
other
the
highest
,
and
fayrest
,
more
worthy
then
the
heauenly
Armies
,
Lady
,
Queene
,
and
Ioy
of
mankind
.
And
in
the
same
place
he
doth
not
only
inuocate
her
,
and
pray
vnto
her
,
but
also
testifyeth
that
he
had
beene
relieued
,
&
helped
by
her
,
and
deliuered
from
many
calamityes
which
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
lay
downe
heereafter
num
.
56.
44.
Theodoret
also
vpon
the
Canticles
,
sayth
:
Inter
tot
animas
hominum
&c.
Amongst
so
many
soules
of
men
and
women
that
shal
be
saued
,
that
only
one
is
the
elected
Doue
,
who
brought
forth
Christ
,
a
Virgin
,
a
Mother
,
a
Mayd
,
who
doubtles
did
excell
in
purity
both
the
Cherubim
,
and
the
Seraphim
.
45.
S.
Athanasius
in
Euangel
.
de
sanctissima
Deipara
,
sayth
to
her
thus
:
All
the
Hierarchies
of
the
Angells
,
and
earthly
creatures
doe
prayse
thee
,
&
holding
vp
their
Hierarchicall
hands
do
blesse
thee
&c.
Pray
for
vs
Mistresse
,
and
Lady
,
and
Queene
,
and
Mother
of
God
.
46.
S.
Ephraem
in
a
most
eloquent
oration
,
which
he
made
of
her
,
entitleth
her
:
The
vncorrupt
and
most
pure
Virgin
Mother
of
God
,
Queene
of
all
men
,
more
sublime
,
and
high
then
the
heauenly
inhabitants
:
more
honourable
then
the
Cherubim
,
more
holy
then
the
Seraphim
,
and
more
glorious
without
comparison
,
then
all
the
rest
of
the
heauenly
Armyes
;
the
hope
of
the
Fathers
;
the
glory
of
the
Prophets
;
the
prayse
of
the
Apostles
;
the
honour
of
the
Martyrs
;
the
ioy
of
the
Saints
,
the
crowne
of
the
Hierarchies
,
of
all
Saints
,
and
Virgins
;
inaccessible
for
thy
brightnes
;
the
princesse
&
guide
of
all
men
;
a
most
sacred
Mayd
;
by
thee
we
are
reconciled
to
Christ
my
God
.
So
he
,
who
doth
also
inuocate
her
with
exceeding
deuotion
&
feruour
thus
:
Crebris
te
lachrymis
ò
celeberrima
Materimploro
&c.
I
implore
,
or
inuocate
thee
O
most
renowned
Mother
,
&
to
thee
I
prostrate
my self
(
O
my
Lady
)
humbly
crying
vnto
thee
,
lest
thy
sweet
sonne
,
the
giuer
of
life
to
all
,
may
,
for
many
sins
which
I
haue
committed
,
take
me
out
of
the
world
,
and
cut
me
wretch
vp
by
the
roots
,
like
the
barren
figge
tree
.
So
sayth
this
ancient
,
and
holy
Father
.
47.
Lastly
S.
Gregory
the
great
vpon
4.
Reg
.
cap
.
1.
affirmeth
that
,
The
blessed
Virgin
(
to
the
end
that
she
might
arriue
to
the
conception
of
the
Eternall
Word
)
did
rayse
the
top
of
her
merits
aboue
all
the
quyres
of
Angells
,
vntill
she
came
to
the
throne
of
the
Deity
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
,
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
she
merited
so
much
by
the
grace
which
God
gaue
her
,
to
make
her
his
Mother
,
that
she
was
eleuated
in
glory
aboue
all
Saints
and
Angels
to
be
next
to
the
Deity
.
48.
I
omit
many
other
testimonyes
of
the
ancient
Fathers
for
breuityes
sake
;
for
what
need
I
alledge
such
ancient
witnesses
,
when
I
haue
a
moderne
testimony
that
may
suffice
,
seeing
I
am
sure
M.
Collins
neither
will
,
nor
dare
reiect
it
,
I
meane
the
euident
assertion
of
the
Kings
Maiesty
,
who
in
his
Apology
for
the
Oath
pag
.
37.
sayth
thus
:
First
,
for
the
Blessed
Virgin
Mary
,
I
yield
her
that
which
the
Angell
Gabriell
pronounced
of
her
,
and
which
in
her
Canticle
she
prophesyed
of
her selfe
,
that
is
,
that
she
is
blessed
amongst
all
women
,
and
that
all
generations
shall
call
her
Blessed
.
I
reuerence
her
,
as
the
Mother
of
Christ
,
of
whome
our
Sauiour
tooke
flesh
,
and
so
the
Mother
of
God
,
since
the
diuinity
,
and
humanity
of
Christ
are
inseparable
.
And
I
freely
confesse
,
that
she
is
in
glory
both
aboue
Angells
,
and
men
,
her
owne
sonne
(
that
is
both
God
,
and
man
)
only
excepted
.
Thus
sayth
his
Maiesty
.
49.
Heere
then
,
heer
arrige
aures
,
good
M.
Collins
(
as
you
sayd
to
me
a
little
before
)
heere
,
I
pray
you
,
lay
your
hand
on
your
hart
,
and
examine
your
conscience
,
whether
your
beliefe
agreeth
with
his
Maiestyes
in
this
point
,
yea
,
and
how
well
you
haue
performed
his
Maiestyes
will
,
and
commandement
,
who
you
say
gaue
you
in
charge
to
confute
me
;
but
I
thinke
his
Maiestyes
meaning
was
not
,
that
you
should
also
confute
him
,
against
whome
your
argument
is
as
valide
,
and
potent
,
as
against
me
:
so
as
it
seemeth
your
beliefe
(
at
least
in
this
point
)
is
flatte
contrary
to
h●s
Maiestyes
.
50.
For
his
Maiesty
belieueth
as
these
ancient
Fathers
,
whome
I
haue
alleadged
,
and
we
Catholikes
,
and
all
good
Christians
do
,
that
the
most
glorious
Mother
of
God
is
glorifyed
not
only
aboue
all
men
,
but
also
aboue
all
Angells
;
but
you
belieue
,
and
labour
to
proue
by
the
authority
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
that
she
is
inferiour
in
glory
to
Angells
,
yea
to
men
;
for
so
it
would
follow
,
if
your
argument
were
ought
worth
;
for
S.
Epiphanius
doth
not
say
that
she
is
inferiour
to
Angells
otherwayes
then
in
nature
;
and
the
same
he
affirmeth
also
of
her
in
regard
of
men
,
to
whome
he
sayth
she
is
also
inferiour
in
nature
,
by
reason
of
her
sexe
;
if
therfore
she
be
inferiour
in
glory
to
Angels
,
because
she
is
inferiour
to
them
in
nature
,
she
is
by
the
same
reason
inferiour
also
to
men
in
glory
;
&
so
should
the
theef
that
after
a
most
wicked
life
,
was
saued
in
the
end
by
the
aboundance
of
Christs
mercyes
,
be
more
glorifyed
now
in
heauen
,
then
she
,
albeit
she
was
alwayes
immaculate
,
and
spotles
,
replenished
with
grace
&
all
vertues
,
and
chosen
amongst
all
creaturs
to
be
the
Mother
of
God
.
Doth
this
consequence
please
you
M.
Collins
?
And
yet
this
must
follow
of
your
argument
,
if
it
be
good
,
therefore
I
remit
it
to
the
Readers
iudgement
,
how
well
you
vnderstand
S.
Epiphanius
,
from
whome
you
draw
such
an
impious
,
and
absurd
conclusion
,
as
to
make
the
Blessed
Mother
of
God
inferiour
to
Angels
in
glory
,
because
she
is
inferiour
to
them
in
nature
,
whereby
you
also
contradict
not
only
the
ancient
Fathers
of
the
Church
,
but
his
Maiesty
also
,
yea
and
most
impiously
abuse
the
most
Blessed
Virgin
,
extenuating
her
glory
much
more
then
did
those
Heretiks
her
enemyes
called
Antidicomarianitae
,
of
whome
I
haue
spoken
before
.
51.
For
if
S.
Epiphanius
accounted
them
to
be
heretiks
,
and
her
enemyes
,
and
to
extenuate
her
glory
,
because
they
taught
that
she
had
children
by
her
lawfull
husband
after
the
birth
of
our
Sauiour
,
that
is
to
say
,
because
they
did
derogate
from
the
honour
of
her
perpetuall
virginity
,
what
would
he
say
of
you
M.
Collins
,
that
seeke
to
spoyle
her
,
not
only
of
the
honour
that
is
done
her
in
earth
,
but
also
of
the
eminent
glory
,
&
soueraingty
(
as
I
may
say
)
which
she
hath
vnder
her
Son
our
Sauiour
Christ
in
heauen
,
yea
,
&
do
abase
,
and
deiect
her
euen
below
the
meanest
Saints
?
He
would
no
doubt
say
of
you
much
rather
then
he
did
of
them
,
that
which
I
haue
alleadged
out
of
him
before
num
.
5.
to
wit
,
That
you
out
of
the
aboundance
of
an
affected
madnes
,
frame
blasphemous
opinions
,
open
your
mouth
,
and
loose
your
tongue
out
of
a
wicked
mind
;
and
insteed
of
Hymnes
and
glory
(
which
are
due
vnto
her
)
inuent
,
and
vtter
drunken
,
and
contumelious
speaches
against
her
,
whereas
you
should
honour
,
and
worship
that
honourable
vessell
;
to
this
effect
I
say
,
he
sayd
of
those
blasphemous
Heretikes
:
and
the
same
he
would
doubtles
say
of
you
,
who
do
her
no
lesse
iniury
if
not
more
,
then
they
,
&
abuse
him
most
abominably
,
in
making
him
the
author
,
or
a
fauior
of
your
blasphemy
,
wresting
his
words
to
a
farre
other
sense
,
then
euer
he
meant
,
besides
the
iniury
you
doe
not
only
to
vs
Catholikes
at
this
day
,
but
also
to
the
Church
of
God
,
in
charging
vs
with
Idolatry
,
for
yielding
to
her
the
honour
which
the
whole
Church
hath
alwayes
approued
,
and
exhibited
vnto
her
.
52.
Whereas
our
bookes
written
of
that
subiect
,
and
our
doctrine
in
scholes
and
pulpits
,
do
proclaime
vnto
the
world
;
and
our
consciences
do
witnes
it
betwixt
God
,
and
vs
,
that
albeyt
we
honour
her
,
as
the
mother
of
God
(
and
consequently
as
one
that
is
more
worthy
,
and
eminent
in
grace
,
and
glory
,
then
al
Saints
or
Angells
)
yet
wee
hould
,
belieue
,
and
teach
that
shee
is
no
God
,
but
a
meere
creature
of
God
;
neyther
is
the
honour
which
the
Church
doth
yeild
her
diuine
honour
,
but
such
as
may
be
giuen
to
a
glorifyed
creature
whome
God
will
haue
to
be
honoured
,
according
to
the
testimony
of
our
Sauiour
Iohn
12.
Si
quis
mihi
ministrauerit
&c.
If
any
man
serue
me
,
my
Father
wil
honour
him
,
or
make
him
to
be
honoured
;
which
honour
is
referred
finally
,
and
principally
to
God
,
for
whose
sake
she
is
honoured
in
respect
of
the
participation
of
the
diuine
excellency
,
and
the
aboundance
of
grace
,
wherewith
God
hath
blessed
her
more
then
any
other
pure
creature
,
so
as
we
are
so
farre
from
dishonouring
God
in
honouring
her
,
that
we
do
him
speciall
honour
and
seruice
therin
;
for
seeing
he
sayd
to
his
disciples
,
qui
vos
recipit
,
me
recipit
,
qui
vos
spernit
,
me
spernit
,
he
that
receiueth
you
,
receiueth
me
,
he
that
despiseth
you
,
despiseth
me
;
much
more
will
he
account
the
honour
,
or
dishonour
done
to
his
mother
,
to
be
done
to
himselfe
,
so
as
the
honour
be
not
diuine
honour
,
called
latria
,
proper
to
him
alone
,
which
we
neuer
giue
her
,
and
much
lesse
to
any
other
Saint
or
angell
.
53.
This
being
so
,
and
most
manifest
aswell
in
our
doctryn
,
as
in
our
practise
,
how
impudent
is
Collins
that
would
face
vs
downe
,
that
we
make
her
God
,
and
that
we
commit
Idolatry
vnto
her
,
yea
and
coupleth
vs
therein
with
the
Collyridian
women
,
as
if
S.
Epiphanius
reproued
vs
no
lesse
then
them
;
to
which
purpose
Collins
sayth
of
them
,
that
they
(
no
doubt
)
would
say
as
we
do
now
,
that
they
stuck
to
the
liuing
God
;
and
yet
worshipt
the
Virgin
as
the
notable
instrument
by
a
subordinate
kind
of
deuotion
,
which
he
would
neuer
say
,
if
he
had
not
a
brazen
face
;
seeing
that
it
is
flatly
repugnant
to
the
expresse
text
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
who
testifyeth
clearely
,
as
I
haue
already
declared
,
that
they
sought
to
introduce
her
pro
Deo
,
for
God
,
and
that
therefore
they
adored
her
with
sacrifice
,
which
is
cultus
latriae
,
diuyne
worship
,
and
being
giuen
to
any
but
to
God
is
flat
Idolatry
.
54.
But
such
is
the
craft
&
sleight
of
the
diuel
the
enemy
of
all
mankynd
that
he
allwayes
couereth
his
malice
with
some
pious
pretext
;
and
therefore
enuying
the
honour
that
is
done
to
gods
Saints
(
and
specially
to
the
mother
of
God
)
impugneth
the
same
by
his
instrumentes
vnder
colour
,
and
pretence
to
defend
Gods
honour
:
whereby
it
appeareth
that
you
M.
Collins
are
the
true
bloud
of
that
wicked
serpent
,
which
seduced
Eue
,
verifying
in
your selfe
,
that
which
Almighty
God
sayd
vnto
him
,
Ponam
inimicitiam
inter
te
&
mulierem
,
semen
tuum
,
&
semen
ipsius
,
&
ipsa
conferet
caput
tuum
,
&
tu
insidiaberis
calcaneo
eius
:
that
is
to
say
,
I
will
put
enmity
betwixt
thee
and
the
woman
,
thy
seed
,
and
her
seed
,
and
she
shall
crush
thy
head
,
and
thou
shalt
lay
wayt
to
her
heele
:
which
words
of
Almighty
God
,
not
only
many
other
Fathers
,
but
also
S.
Epiphanius
in
his
discourse
against
those
blasphemous
Heretikes
,
witnesseth
to
be
fullfilled
in
the
Blessed
Virgin
,
whom
he
expoundeth
to
be
the
woman
that
shall
bruse
and
crush
the
head
of
the
serpent
;
and
further
affirmeth
that
as
Eue
,
was
called
Mater
viuentium
,
the
mother
of
the
liuing
,
so
the
Blessed
Virgin
is
also
Mater
viuentium
,
because
she
brought
forth
the
Son
of
God
,
who
giueth
true
life
to
the
world
:
and
that
therefore
,
as
Eue
was
cause
of
death
to
men
,
so
Mary
was
cause
of
life
to
men
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Epiphanius
:
wherupon
it
followeth
that
all
those
which
receaue
life
by
Christ
,
the
seed
,
and
sonne
of
Mary
(
who
taking
flesh
of
her
made
himselfe
our
brother
)
ought
to
acknowledge
her
for
their
Mother
.
55.
Therefore
it
is
no
marueile
,
that
all
true
Christians
do
honour
and
serue
her
as
their
Mother
,
like
good
children
,
and
so
much
the
more
,
by
how
much
the
spirituall
life
which
they
haue
receaued
by
Christ
her
Sonne
,
excelleth
the
corporall
life
which
they
haue
by
their
carnall
parents
.
And
againe
on
the
other
side
,
it
is
no
wonder
,
that
the
seeds
of
the
serpent
,
following
the
nature
,
and
will
of
their
Father
,
do
continually
impugne
her
,
and
her
children
,
labouring
by
all
meanes
possible
to
disgrace
and
dishonour
her
&
them
;
whereby
it
appeareth
,
of
what
good
brood
you
are
M.
Collins
,
who
imitating
the
serpent
your
Sire
,
a●uisti
linguam
sicut
Serpentis
,
haue
whetted
your
Serpentine
tongue
against
her
,
Psal
.
139.
and
when
you
cannot
sting
her
,
yet
at
least
you
hisse
at
her
,
&
lye
in
wayte
to
bite
her
by
the
heele
,
and
spit
your
venime
,
and
poison
against
her
children
,
who
loue
,
honour
,
and
defend
her
;
but
when
you
shall
haue
done
your
worst
,
you
will
find
,
that
ipsa
conteret
caput
tuum
,
she
shall
crush
your
head
,
and
the
head
of
the
Serpent
in
you
,
as
Almighty
God
hath
both
foretould
,
and
promised
,
Gen.
3.
56.
Pardon
me
good
Reader
,
I
beseech
thee
,
if
thou
thinkest
me
ouer
sharp
with
this
blasphemous
miscreant
,
whose
impiety
and
blasphemy
against
the
most
Blessed
Virgin
hath
iustly
kindled
my
zeale
,
and
whetted
my
stile
against
him
in
defence
of
her
honour
,
as
well
for
the
common
obligation
that
all
good
Christians
haue
vnto
her
,
being
the
Mother
of
God
,
as
also
for
the
particuler
deuotion
,
I
am
bound
to
beare
her
,
for
innumerable
benefits
and
fauours
spirituall
,
and
temporall
,
which
I
haue
receaued
of
Almighty
God
by
her
intercession
,
and
speciall
protection
;
in
which
respect
I
may
iustly
prayse
,
and
thanke
her
with
Saint
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
who
concluding
his
Tragedy
de
Christo
patiente
,
doth
salute
,
and
inuocate
her
with
an
elegant
Hymne
,
whereof
I
thinke
good
to
set
downe
part
in
Greeke
,
as
he
wrote
it
.
{αβγδ}
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
{αβγδ}
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
,
{αβγδ}
{αβγδ}
.
{αβγδ}
.
&c.
To
adorne
thee
(
O
Soueraigne
)
I
offer
vp
a
crown
gathered
out
of
an
vncorrupted
meadow
,
because
thou
hast
bestowed
many
fauours
vpon
me
,
and
deliuered
me
from
sundry
calamityes
,
from
visible
enemyes
,
&
much
more
from
inuisible
.
Graunt
that
according
as
I
desired
,
I
may
end
my
life
,
enriched
alwayes
by
hauing
thee
Patronesse
of
my
life
,
and
an
acceptable
intercessour
to
thy
Sonne
.
Wherefore
suffer
me
not
to
be
deliuered
,
and
become
a
scorne
vnto
the
deadly
enemy
of
mankind
.
Assist
me
,
and
deliuer
me
from
fire
,
and
darknes
,
by
iustifying
fayth
,
and
thy
fauour
;
for
in
thee
hath
appeared
vnto
vs
grace
from
Almighty
God
;
&
to
thee
I
do
now
offer
this
hymne
of
thanks
.
Hayle
O
Virgin
,
full
of
ioy
,
Mother
Virgin
,
sayrest
,
and
highest
of
all
Virgins
,
aboue
the
celestiall
legions
.
Lady
,
Queene
,
Ioy
of
mankind
,
be
alwayes
fauourable
vnto
man
,
and
to
me
euery
where
greatest
safeguard
.
57.
Thus
sayd
that
ancient
Father
(
who
for
learning
and
sanctity
of
life
was
one
of
the
lights
of
Gods
Church
in
his
tyme
:
)
thus
I
say
,
did
he
inuocate
,
prayse
and
thanke
the
most
Blessed
Virgin
for
benefites
receaued
from
her
;
and
the
like
I
haue
iust
occasion
to
say
,
&
to
yield
her
immortall
thankes
,
and
prayse
as
to
my
speciall
Patronesse
,
and
(
as
S.
Athanasius
called
her
)
my
Lady
,
and
mistresse
,
&
my
heauenly
Queen
,
whome
with
all
humility
I
reuerence
,
and
honour
aboue
all
other
creatures
,
and
in
whome
I
repose
my
chiefe
confidence
next
after
our
Sauiour
Iesus
Christ
her
Sonne
,
whome
therfore
I
humbly
beseech
to
giue
me
grace
so
to
serue
him
,
and
her
his
most
Blessed
Mother
,
that
I
may
be
some
way
an
instrument
of
her
honour
,
&
prayses
,
to
his
greater
glory
;
and
finally
,
that
I
may
both
spend
,
and
end
the
small
remnant
of
my
d●●es
in
his
seruice
vnder
her
blessed
protection
.
And
now
to
conclude
this
Chapter
,
I
will
say
to
M.
Collins
,
as
S.
Ambrose
sayd
to
others
such
as
he
,
Epist.
79.
Claudat
ora
sua
perfidia
,
&
obmutescat
,
nec
Matrem
Domini
aliquo
audeat
temerare
conuitio
:
let
Perfidiousnes
(
or
Infidelity
)
shut
vp
her
mouth
,
and
become
dumbe
,
&
not
be
so
audacious
as
to
seeke
to
disgrace
the
Mother
of
God
with
any
reproach
.
Thus
sayth
Saint
Ambrose
.
Therefore
obmutesce
M.
Collins
,
obmutesce
.
M.
Collins
is
conuinced
to
haue
shamefully
abused
diuers
other
ancient
Fathers
,
to
wit
,
S
Gregory
Nissen
,
S.
Chrysostome
,
the
Councell
of
Constantinople
,
S.
Augustine
,
and
Theodoret
;
and
to
haue
left
my
Lord
of
Winchester
in
the
Lurch
vndefended
,
touching
a
most
fraudulent
abuse
of
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
wherwith
his
Lordship
was
deeply
charged
in
the
Adioynder
.
CHAP.
IX
.
YOv
haue
seene
how
M.
Collins
hath
behaued
himselfe
in
his
sixt
Chapter
,
in
answering
my
obiections
out
of
three
Fathers
of
the
first
,
and
second
rancke
(
according
to
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
diuision
)
to
wit
,
S.
Basil
,
S.
Ephraene
,
and
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
,
touching
their
beliefe
,
and
practise
(
yea
,
and
the
practise
of
the
whole
Church
in
their
tyme
)
in
praying
to
Saints
;
I
will
now
passe
to
his
seauenth
Chapter
,
&
discouer
his
frauds
in
answering
some
Fathers
of
the
third
ranke
,
that
is
to
say
,
true
Fathers
and
truly
cyted
,
sed
nihil
adrem
,
but
nothing
to
the
purpose
,
as
my
Lord
sayth
;
but
how
truly
he
sayth
it
,
and
how
substantially
,
and
sincerely
M.
Collins
doth
maintaine
it
,
let
the
indifferent
Reader
iudge
.
1.
Amongst
other
Fathers
which
the
Cardinall
cited
in
his
Apology
pag
.
13.
for
prayer
to
Saints
,
and
I
alleadged
in
my
Adioynder
one
,
was
S.
Gregory
Nissen
,
brother
to
S.
Basill
;
who
prayed
expressly
to
S.
Theodorus
the
martyr
in
an
oration
made
publickly
in
his
feast
,
where
he
saith
thus
:
Intercede
&
deprecare
&c.
Pray
,
and
make
intercession
for
vs
to
our
common
King
and
Lord
,
to
obteyne
vs
grace
&c.
To
this
,
as
also
to
all
other
places
of
like
quality
,
my
Lord
of
Winchester
g●ue
this
generall
answer
;
that
such
prayers
of
the
Fathers
are
but
figuratiue
,
and
Rhetoricall
speaches
,
after
the
manner
of
Orators
,
who
in
panegyricall
,
and
funeral
orations
do
commonly
vse
the
figures
of
prosopopaeia
and
Apostrophe
,
speaking
to
dead
men
,
as
though
they
were
liuing
,
yea
,
and
to
senselesse
things
,
as
S.
Ambrose
(
sayth
he
)
doth
to
the
water
of
baptisme
,
Eusebius
to
piety
,
&
Gregory
Nazianzen
to
the
feast
o●
Easter
.
2.
For
the
confutation
of
this
answer
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
I
vrged
4.
reasons
,
whereof
I
will
debate
heere
only
one
,
to
wit
the
4.
because
the
other
three
were
more
generall
;
whereas
the
4.
concerned
particulerly
the
place
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
before
alleadged
,
and
most
imported
for
the
decision
of
this
question
;
which
I
beseech
thee
good
Reader
wel
to
note
,
that
thou
maist
the
better
consider
of
the
importance
of
it
,
&
of
M.
Collins
his
honest
&
sincere
dealing
in
answering
it
.
Thus
then
I
sayd
in
the
7.
Chapter
of
my
Adioynder
,
pag
.
263.
num
.
8.
Lastly
to
put
this
matter
out
of
all
doubt
,
and
to
discouer
the
impertinent
vanity
of
M.
Andrewes
in
this
poynt
,
let
vs
consider
the
circumstances
of
one
of
the
places
now
heere
in
question
,
betwixt
the
Cardinall
&
him
,
I
meane
the
same
place
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
which
I
haue
layd
downe
before
,
taken
out
of
his
oration
made
in
the
solemnity
of
the
feast
of
S.
Theodorus
the
Martyr
,
wherein
S.
Gregory
hauing
first
touched
the
great
celebrity
of
the
feast
by
the
confluence
of
all
sorts
of
people
,
farre
and
neere
,
moueth
them
to
consider
thereby
how
God
rewardeth
the
iust
man
,
not
only
in
earth
,
and
thereby
also
incyteth
him
further
to
aspyre
to
the
lyke
rewards
by
the
imitation
of
the
vertues
of
those
whome
God
so
honoureth
;
and
to
this
end
he
discourseth
amply
of
the
great
honour
that
was
euery
where
exhibited
to
the
reliques
of
martyrs
,
and
particulerly
of
that
holy
Martyr
in
that
place
,
and
feast
,
elegantly
declaring
the
magnificence
of
the
Church
where
his
feast
was
celebrated
,
adorned
with
excellent
workemanship
of
all
sorts
,
and
namely
with
pictures
,
liuely
expressing
the
particularityes
of
his
Martyrdome
;
wherin
,
by
the
way
,
we
may
note
,
the
vse
of
the
pictures
of
Saynts
in
Churches
in
those
dayes
,
yea
and
that
they
were
held
to
be
very
profitable
for
the
instruction
of
the
people
,
seeing
that
S.
Gregory
Nissen
sayth
also
vpon
this
occasion
:
Solet
enim
pictura
tacens
in
pariete
l●qui
,
maximeque
prodesse
:
for
the
picture
which
is
sylent
vpon
the
wall
,
is
wont
to
speak
,
and
to
profit
exceedingly
.
So
he
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
the
sight
of
the
picture
,
or
paynted
history
did
greatly
edify
the
people
,
and
styr
them
vp
to
the
imitation
of
the
Saynts
vertues
,
and
holy
lyfe
.
But
to
proceed
.
3.
After
this
the
same
Father
relateth
the
feruent
deuotion
of
the
people
,
greatly
desiring
to
approach
to
the
tombe
of
the
Martyr
;
Credens
,
sayth
he
,
contrectationem
eius
esse
sanctificationem
,
&
benedictionem
,
belieuing
that
the
very
touching
of
it
would
be
a
sanctification
&
benediction
;
yea
seeking
to
get
but
some
of
the
dust
about
the
tombe
,
esteeming
the
same
as
a
thing
of
great
pryce
;
&
if
they
could
haue
the
good
fortūe
to
touch
the
reliques
themselues
,
he
appealeth
to
their
owne
experience
and
knowledge
,
how
prosperous
and
happy
they
would
thinke
themselues
,
and
how
they
would
imbrace
the
sayd
reliques
,
kisse
them
,
and
apply
them
to
their
eyes
,
eares
,
and
all
the
instruments
of
their
senses
.
Deinde
sayth
he
,
deuotionis
&
affectonis
lachrimas
Martyri
&c.
And
then
powring
forth
teares
of
deuotion
and
affection
to
the
Martyr
,
as
though
he
were
there
whole
,
and
aliue
,
they
exhibite
their
humble
petition
vnto
him
,
as
to
the
seruant
of
God
,
&
as
one
that
being
inuocated
(
for
so
signifieth
the
greek
word
{αβγδ}
)
receiueth
what
gifts
soeuer
he
will
.
Thus
sayth
this
ancient
&
holy
Father
,
&
then
concludeth
:
ex
hijs
omnibus
,
ô
popule
pie
,
discite
&c.
O
pious
,
or
godly
people
,
learne
by
all
this
,
that
the
death
of
.
Gods
Saynts
,
is
honourable
,
and
precious
in
his
sight
.
4.
All
this
I
haue
thought
good
to
lay
downe
at
large
,
first
to
confirme
al
that
which
hath
hitherto
byn
treated
concerning
the
custome
of
the
Church
at
that
tyme
,
not
only
in
the
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
but
also
in
the
expresse
Inuocation
of
Saynts
:
secondly
that
this
holy
Father
making
all
this
discourse
in
the
solemnity
of
that
Martyrs
feast
,
to
styrre
vp
the
people
as
well
to
deuotion
towards
God
,
and
the
Martyr
,
as
to
the
imitation
of
the
martyrs
vertues
(
for
so
he
himself
professeth
)
did
highly
approue
all
that
which
he
hath
heere
related
;
and
consequently
when
afterwards
in
the
conclusion
of
the
Oration
he
himself
inuocated
the
Martyr
,
he
did
it
of
pure
deuotion
,
and
not
of
vayne
ostentation
of
his
eloquence
,
not
as
a
flanting
Rhetoriciā
,
or
Oratour
,
but
as
a
Religious
Deuine
,
and
deuout
Christian
,
a
pious
Pastour
,
and
teacher
of
his
flock
,
to
whome
he
preached
,
for
whome
he
prayed
,
and
whome
he
sought
to
moue
by
his
owne
example
,
to
concurre
with
him
in
the
Inuocation
of
the
Martyr
.
5.
Wherein
also
M.
Andrews
may
if
it
please
him
note
the
word
Inuocation
vsed
by
this
Father
for
prayer
to
the
Martyr
,
of
whome
he
sayth
,
that
the
people
prayed
vnto
him
,
and
called
vpon
him
as
the
minister
of
God
,
and
as
one
that
receiued
(
or
obtayned
of
God
)
what
gifts
he
would
,
{αβγδ}
,
that
is
say
being
inuocated
;
for
I
thinke
M.
Andrewes
wil
not
deny
that
{αβγδ}
in
Greeke
doth
properly
signify
inuocare
in
Latin
,
and
in
English
to
inuocate
.
And
therefore
because
he
is
so
curious
to
runne
to
the
Greeke
in
all
occasions
to
examine
our
citations
of
the
Greeke
Fathers
,
I
remit
him
heere
to
the
Greeke
;
for
that
I
haue
byn
in
this
no
lesse
(
if
not
more
)
curious
then
he
,
hauing
searched
the
old
Manuscripts
of
the
Vatican
,
where
I
haue
seene
two
written
copyes
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
,
both
of
them
very
ancient
,
and
in
them
both
haue
found
the
Greeke
words
,
as
heere
I
haue
layd
them
downe
in
the
margent
,
with
all
the
rest
,
very
conforme
to
the
Latin
translation
;
and
therefore
I
hope
he
can
take
no
iust
exception
thereto
.
6.
Thus
then
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
,
and
to
all
this
what
thinke
you
will
M.
Collins
say
?
Your
fourth
obseruation
,
sayth
he
,
in
the
eight
number
,
is
petitio
principij
,
&
the
turning
of
the
wheele
,
&
therfore
I
will
not
medle
with
it
:
let
the
Bishops
answere
be
but
applyed
to
your
obiection
,
and
it
will
salue
it
as
before
.
So
he
.
Professing
plainely
as
you
see
,
that
he
wil
not
meddle
with
it
,
because
forsooth
it
is
petitio
principij
,
and
as
he
tearmeth
it
the
turning
of
the
wheele
,
which
how
true
it
is
,
I
remit
to
the
iudgment
of
any
man
,
that
knoweth
what
i●
petitio
principij
;
for
how
do
I
petere
principium
or
turne
the
wheele
(
as
he
calleth
it
)
when
I
doe
vrge
the
circumstances
of
the
place
,
which
is
in
question
,
to
no
other
end
,
but
to
confute
my
Lords
exposition
of
it
,
which
is
thereby
clearely
confuted
,
it
being
manifest
by
all
the
circumstances
by
me
alledged
,
that
S.
Gregory
Nissen
did
pray
to
the
Martyr
S.
Theodorus
out
of
pure
deuotion
,
and
affection
,
and
not
for
ostentation
of
eloquence
,
not
as
a
Rhetoritian
,
or
as
an
Orator
(
as
my
Lord
affirmed
of
him
,
and
other
Fathers
praying
to
Saints
)
but
as
a
deuout
Christian
,
and
a
pious
pastour
,
&
teacher
of
his
flocke
to
whome
he
spake
,
&
whose
deuotion
towards
the
Martyr
,
and
inuocation
of
him
he
greatly
approued
and
commended
;
and
this
is
so
manifest
in
the
Oration
it selfe
(
as
appeareth
by
the
circumstances
layd
downe
by
me
)
that
M.
Collin●
had
indeed
great
reason
not
to
medle
with
it
,
but
to
seeke
some
colour
,
or
shift
to
auoyd
it
,
albeit
he
could
not
haue
found
a
more
paultry
&
improbable
shift
then
this
,
to
charge
me
with
petitio
principij
,
whereof
there
is
not
so
much
as
any
shew
or
appearance
,
in
all
that
which
I
vrged
against
my
Lord
;
and
therefore
wheras
M.
Collins
sayth
as
you
haue
heard
,
that
the
Bishops
answer
will
salue
the
obiection
,
if
it
be
but
applyed
vnto
it
,
he
could
not
for
shame
haue
sayd
so
,
if
he
layd
downe
my
Text
,
as
I
doubt
not
but
you
haue
euidently
seene
;
yea
and
noted
withall
his
notable
fraud
in
concealing
it
,
&
refusing
to
answere
it
vpon
such
a
friuolous
,
and
false
pretence
.
7.
But
will
you
see
how
this
fellow
will
play
,
as
they
say
,
small
game
rather
then
sit
out
?
For
although
he
sayd
that
he
will
not
meddle
with
my
obiection
,
yet
he
hath
found
somewhat
to
descant
vpon
,
which
I
would
let
passe
for
a
meere
foolery
,
but
that
there
is
notable
fraud
,
and
falsity
in
it
.
You
haue
seene
before
in
the
Abridgment
,
which
I
layd
down
out
of
S.
Gregoryes
Oration
,
that
I
noted
by
the
way
the
vse
of
the
Pictures
of
Saints
in
Churches
in
those
dayes
,
&
that
they
were
held
to
be
very
profitable
for
the
instruction
of
the
people
,
seeing
that
S.
Gregory
hauing
signifyed
that
the
Saints
martyrdome
was
painted
vpon
the
walls
,
added
,
Solet
etiam
pictura
tacens
in
pariete
loqui
,
maximeque
prodesse
.
For
euen
the
picture
which
is
silent
vpon
the
wall
,
is
wont
to
speake
,
and
to
profit
very
much
.
Wherupon
M.
Collins
taketh
occasion
to
vtter
forth
a
great
deale
of
goo●
stuffe
,
worthy
of
him
,
whose
special
talen●
is
,
to
peruert
,
falsify
,
and
corrupt
all
th●
Authors
that
he
hath
occasion
to
deale
with
,
whereof
wee
haue
seene
safficient
proofe
already
,
and
shall
now
see
so
much
more
,
as
no
man
would
imagine
could
passe
from
any
mans
pen
in
so
little
space
,
to
wit
,
in
lesse
then
two
pages
,
whereof
,
good
Reader
,
I
will
desire
no
other
Iudge
but
thy self
,
be
thou
neuer
so
partiall
to
M.
Collins
.
8.
It
is
therfore
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
yt
was
his
pleasure
to
take
occasion
of
my
foresaid
Parenthesis
,
touching
pictures
,
&
to
make
a
large
digression
,
for
the
confutation
therof
,
labouring
to
proue
,
that
the
vse
of
pictures
in
the
Church
,
&
especially
of
Almighty
God
is
vnlawfull
.
And
first
he
beginneth
with
a
place
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
alleadging
in
his
margent
Tom
.
7.
{αβγδ}
;
and
because
the
place
seemed
to
me
some
what
strange
,
especially
with
his
glosse
,
and
interpretation
of
it
,
I
was
desirous
to
see
it
in
the
Father
himself
,
and
not
fynding
any
where
in
our
Latyn
editions
7.
Tomes
of
him
,
or
yet
that
Sermon
which
M.
Collins
citeth
,
I
sought
for
the
Greeke
Edition
of
Syr
Henry
Sauill
,
(
whome
I
thought
he
was
most
like
to
follow
)
and
found
there
indeed
,
that
Saint
Chrysostomes
workes
were
distributed
by
him
into
8.
Tomes
,
and
in
the
7.
I
found
the
Oration
which
M.
Collins
cyteth
,
and
hauing
well
considered
the
title
,
the
substance
,
the
drifte
,
and
the
particuler
circumstances
as
well
of
the
whole
oration
,
as
of
the
place
,
and
words
which
he
alleadgeth
;
I
assure
thee
(
good
Reader
)
I
was
amazed
to
see
the
impudency
of
the
man
,
who
is
not
ashamed
to
wrest
that
holy
Fathers
words
,
to
a
farre
different
sense
,
then
euer
he
meant
them
.
9.
For
the
Father
seeketh
only
in
that
Oration
to
cure
the
disease
(
as
he
tearmeth
it
)
of
such
as
being
ouer
curious
,
busy
,
and
bould
to
search
into
the
incomprehensible
mysteries
of
gods
infinite
wisdome
,
prouidence
,
and
iudgments
,
are
scandalized
,
because
they
cannot
penetrate
,
and
sound
the
inscrutable
depth
thereof
,
whose
folly
therefore
,
and
audacious
curiosity
he
sharpely
reprehendeth
,
&
amongst
many
other
Arguments
,
which
he
vseth
to
confound
them
,
he
proposeth
the
example
of
the
Seraphim
,
who
are
described
in
the
holy
scriptures
to
stand
before
the
throne
of
the
diuyne
Maiesty
,
couering
their
faces
with
their
wyngs
,
to
signify
thereby
,
that
the
diuyne
essence
is
so
incomprehensible
,
and
his
iudgments
so
impenetrable
,
that
those
pure
,
and
celestiall
spirits
dare
not
so
much
as
behold
his
face
;
wherupon
S.
Chrysostome
inferreth
,
that
those
men
who
presume
to
diue
into
the
bottomelesse
depth
of
the
diuyne
prouidence
,
are
exceedingly
audacious
and
temerarious
;
but
in
all
this
discourse
,
he
hath
not
so
much
as
one
word
of
pictures
,
or
of
paynting
:
whereas
M.
Collins
maketh
him
inueigh
most
bitterly
against
such
as
had
pictures
of
the
Seraphim
,
for
thus
he
sayth
pag
.
256.
lin
.
9.
S.
Chrysostome
,
of
them
that
would
haue
the
pictures
of
the
Seraphim
,
because
they
appeared
in
such
,
and
such
forme
,
Esay
6.
which
is
your
very
pretence
at
this
day
,
why
God
should
be
paynted
(
not
the
Seraphim
only
but
God
;
a
most
monstrous
shame
)
non
te
defodis
?
art
thou
not
ashamed
,
O
thou
wretch
,
sayth
he
,
of
such
a
grosse
collection
?
why
doest
thou
not
rather
run
vnder
the
ground
,
&
bury
thy self
alyue
?
And
he
addes
in
the
same
place
,
that
the
Seraphim
are
said
to
couer
their
faces
with
their
wyngs
at
the
appearance
of
God
,
only
to
shew
that
God
is
incomprehensible
;
yet
you
paynt
them
for
theyr
wings
,
wheras
their
wings
are
giuen
them
by
the
holy
Ghost
,
sayes
Chrysostome
,
to
shew
the
secrecy
,
and
that
it
must
not
be
paynted
,
which
cannot
so
much
as
be
comprehended
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
most
shamefully
belying
S.
Chrysostome
,
peruerting
his
sense
,
&
corrupting
his
Text
,
in
so
much
that
three
notable
fraudes
may
be
noted
in
these
few
lynes
.
For
,
first
he
sayth
that
S.
Chrys
.
speaketh
,
&
treateth
of
those
that
would
haue
picturs
of
the
Seraphim
,
for
this
special
reason
,
viz.
because
they
haue
appeared
in
such
&
such
forme
Esay
6
al
which
is
flatly
false
;
for
there
is
no
mention
at
all
in
that
place
,
of
the
picture
of
the
Seraphim
,
&
much
lesse
of
the
reason
,
why
some
would
haue
them
,
&
it
seemeth
that
he
addeth
that
reason
craftily
of
purpose
,
to
wrest
the
place
the
more
probably
to
our
paynting
of
God
in
the
forme
wherin
he
hath
appeared
;
which
he
therefore
exaggerateth
for
a
monstrous
shame
;
though
he
himself
may
be
ashamed
of
such
a
monstrous
lye
,
as
he
hath
made
therein
.
10.
Secondly
he
not
only
applyeth
the
words
which
he
alleadgeth
out
of
S.
Chrysostome
contrary
to
his
meaning
(
to
wit
,
to
those
,
that
would
haue
pictures
of
the
Seraphim
,
of
whom
S.
Chrysostome
speaketh
not
at
all
)
but
also
he
corrupteth
his
Text
,
making
mention
in
a
different
letter
,
of
a
grosse
collection
,
saying
,
Art
thou
not
a
shamed
,
O
thou
wretch
of
such
a
grosse
collection
,
wherof
there
is
no
mention
in
S.
Chrysostome
?
and
this
he
doth
most
fraudulently
to
perswade
the
reader
,
that
S.
Chrysostome
condemned
as
well
the
reason
of
our
painting
God
,
and
the
Seraphim
,
as
the
pictures
themselues
,
albeyt
S.
Chrysostome
doth
not
so
much
as
speake
of
eyther
of
both
.
11.
Thirdly
,
he
falsifyeth
also
S.
Chrysostom
notably
afterwards
in
affirming
that
he
sayes
,
that
wynges
were
giuen
to
the
Seraphim
by
the
holy
ghost
,
to
shew
the
secrecy
;
and
that
it
must
not
be
paynted
,
which
cannot
be
comprehended
,
whereas
that
holy
Father
,
hath
not
one
word
of
paynting
eyther
God
,
or
the
Seraphim
,
or
any
thing
else
;
and
yet
he
setteth
downe
the
word
paynted
in
a
different
letter
,
as
a
word
specially
to
be
noted
in
S.
Chrysostome
,
which
is
rather
to
be
noted
in
M.
Collins
for
a
notable
fraud
and
consenage
of
his
Reader
;
besides
that
his
folly
also
appeareth
in
that
this
falsification
of
his
,
is
to
no
purpose
:
for
put
the
case
that
S.
Chrysostome
had
sayd
,
as
he
maketh
him
say
,
viz.
that
it
cannot
be
paynted
which
cannot
be
comprehended
,
yet
it
could
not
touch
vs
for
paynting
the
forme
,
wherein
God
hath
appeared
,
seing
that
we
do
not
thereby
paynt
his
Deity
(
which
is
indeed
incomprehensible
,
and
therefore
cannot
be
paynted
)
but
we
paynt
only
the
forme
,
wherein
it
hath
pleased
him
to
appeare
,
which
forme
is
both
comprehensible
,
and
visible
;
so
as
it
is
euident
that
this
silly
fellow
hath
neyther
honesty
nor
wit
:
no
honesty
in
that
he
corrupteth
and
falsifieth
S.
Chrysostomes
text
,
no
les
then
his
sense
;
no
wit
,
in
doing
it
so
ridiculously
,
as
you
see
,
without
prouing
any
thing
against
vs
,
or
helping
his
cause
any
thing
at
all
.
12.
But
to
the
end
that
the
Reader
may
euidently
see
the
falsity
,
and
corruption
of
this
place
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
I
will
set
downe
the
Greeke
text
of
the
Father
heere
in
the
Margent
out
of
Syr
Henry
Sauils
edition
,
which
is
in
English
thus
:
{αβγδ}
.
Why
doest
thou
not
hide
and
bury
thy selfe
in
the
bowells
of
the
Earth
,
that
with
so
great
temerity
wilt
search
into
the
prouidence
of
the
ineffable
&
inenarable
power
of
God
,
incomprehensible
euen
vnto
the
superiour
powers
?
for
all
thinges
that
belong
to
him
,
are
fully
manifest
only
to
the
Sonne
,
and
the
holy
Ghost
,
and
to
none
els
.
These
are
the
words
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
which
I
pray
you
confer
with
that
which
M.
Collins
hath
layd
downe
in
a
different
letter
for
S.
Chrysostomes
Text
(
or
for
the
substance
therof
at
least
)
and
you
will
cleerely
see
the
difference
;
and
that
S.
Chrysostome
doth
addresse
his
speach
to
those
only
that
presume
to
search
into
the
mysteryes
of
Gods
prouidence
,
without
mention
of
Pictures
,
either
of
the
Seraphim
or
of
any
thing
els
,
and
much
lesse
of
any
gresse
collection
touching
the
same
.
13.
Therefore
I
will
now
conclude
this
point
with
M.
Collins
his
owne
words
applying
them
to
him
as
he
wel
deserueth
:
Non
te
desodis
?
Art
thou
not
ashamed
,
O
thou
wretch
(
Collins
)
at
such
a
grosse
falsification
of
a
holy
Father
,
and
Doctour
of
Gods
Church
?
Why
doest
thou
not
rather
runne
vnder
the
ground
,
and
bury
thy selfe
aliue
?
This
truly
may
be
worthily
sayd
to
this
shameles
wretch
,
who
hath
neither
conscience
,
nor
shame
;
for
if
he
had
,
he
could
not
possibly
haue
committed
such
a
willfull
corruption
,
and
malicious
falsity
,
as
heer
he
hath
done
,
yea
&
added
so
many
more
,
as
you
shall
see
now
in
that
which
followeth
.
14.
After
this
place
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
he
alleadgeth
another
out
of
a
Synod
held
at
Constantinople
thus
:
I
say
nothing
sayth
he
,
of
the
forbidding
of
the
Lambe
to
be
paynted
,
in
the
Councell
of
Constantinople
,
which
Maldonate
your
fellow-Iesuit
in
his
Comment
vpon
Daniel
,
answereth
thus
:
That
the
Fathers
in
that
Councell
were
not
rightly
instructed
,
&
the
Church
saw
more
vpon
better
consideration
in
after
tymes
:
Yet
you
make
vs
belieue
that
you
reuerence
the
Fathers
,
and
we
censure
them
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
;
wherin
I
wish
to
be
noted
two
things
;
the
one
that
what
he
alleadgeth
&
affirmeth
of
Maldonate
,
I
find
not
in
his
Comment
vpon
Daniel
,
and
therfore
if
his
notebooke
haue
deceaued
him
,
and
that
he
find
it
somewhere
els
,
I
wil
answere
it
heereafter
when
he
shall
produce
it
.
The
other
is
a
notable
fraud
concerning
his
allegation
of
the
Councell
of
Constantinople
cyted
by
him
to
impugne
the
vse
of
pictures
in
Churches
,
which
vse
neuerthelesse
was
ordayned
expresly
by
that
Synod
,
yea
and
by
that
selfe
same
Canon
which
he
cyteth
.
15.
For
albeit
those
Fathers
that
were
assembled
in
that
Synod
,
did
not
thinke
it
conuenient
,
that
Christ
should
be
paynted
in
the
forme
of
a
Lambe
(
which
they
thought
more
fit
,
and
proper
to
the
ould
Testament
,
as
a
figure
,
and
shaddow
of
Christ
,
then
to
the
new
,
wherein
the
verity
is
expressed
)
yet
they
so
far
allowed
of
the
Image
and
picture
of
Christ
himselfe
,
in
the
true
form
of
his
humanity
,
that
they
ordayned
the
vse
of
it
expresly
,
in
their
82.
Canon
,
which
is
the
same
wherin
they
forbad
the
paynting
of
the
Lambe
;
for
there
it
followeth
immediatly
thus
:
We
command
(
sayth
they
)
that
heerafter
the
Character
,
or
forme
of
Christ
our
God
,
who
taketh
away
the
sinnes
of
the
world
,
shall
be
set
,
or
placed
insteed
of
the
old
Lambe
,
to
the
end
that
we
comprehending
in
our
mindes
the
humility
of
the
word
of
God
,
may
be
moued
to
remember
his
conuersation
with
vs
in
flesh
,
and
his
passion
and
death
,
and
that
the
world
was
redeemed
by
him
.
Thus
sayth
that
Canon
,
not
only
ordayning
,
as
you
see
,
the
vse
of
our
Sauiours
picture
,
but
also
yielding
the
true
reason
,
which
hath
euer
moued
the
Church
to
vse
the
same
.
16.
And
if
this
Canon
will
not
satisfy
M.
Collins
in
this
point
,
another
may
also
be
produced
out
of
the
same
Councell
much
more
to
the
purpose
,
to
proue
not
only
the
vse
of
pictures
,
but
also
the
adoration
of
them
:
I
say
the
adoration
,
because
M.
Collins
doth
hardly
brooke
that
word
when
it
is
applyed
to
pictures
or
Images
,
and
yet
it
is
vsed
expresly
by
those
Fathers
in
that
Councel
,
to
wit
,
in
the
73.
Canon
,
wherin
they
signify
,
that
for
as
much
as
the
Crosse
doth
shew
or
signify
vnto
vs
our
saluation
,
we
therefore
ought
to
giue
vnto
it
the
honour
that
is
conuenient
.
Quamobrē
say
they
,
&
mente
,
&
sermone
,
&
sensu
,
adorationem
ei
tribuentes
,
Crucis
figuras
quae
à
nonnullis
in
solo
,
ac
in
pauimento
fiunt
,
omnino
deleri
iubemus
,
&c.
Wherefore
we
attributing
vnto
it
adoration
,
both
in
mind
,
speach
,
and
sense
,
do
ordayne
that
the
figures
or
formes
of
the
Crosse
(
which
by
many
are
made
in
flooers
,
or
pauements
)
be
abolished
,
lest
the
Trophey
of
our
Victory
be
iniured
by
the
treading
or
trampling
of
those
that
goe
vpon
it
;
and
therefore
we
decree
,
that
those
who
shall
heereafter
make
the
signe
of
the
Crosse
vpon
the
ground
,
shall
be
excommunicated
.
Thus
sayd
those
Fathers
in
that
Canon
:
so
as
you
see
M.
Collins
gaineth
nothing
by
his
allegation
of
this
Councell
against
the
vse
of
pictures
,
but
that
he
hath
notably
intangled
and
disgraced
himselfe
thereby
.
17.
Neuerthelesse
to
doe
him
some
pleasure
,
and
to
help
him
out
of
the
bryers
,
I
am
content
to
acknowledge
that
this
Councel
of
Constantinople
,
which
made
these
Canons
,
is
of
no
force
,
being
a
schismaticall
Councell
assembled
,
and
held
by
the
Schismaticall
Bishop
of
Constantinople
called
Callinichus
,
without
any
consent
of
the
Roman
,
&
Westerne
Church
;
besides
that
they
ordayned
,
and
made
diuers
erroneous
Canons
,
among
the
which
I
am
sure
there
are
some
,
that
M.
Collins
himselfe
will
acknowledg
to
be
such
,
especially
if
he
loue
a
blacke
pudding
;
for
they
ordayned
that
if
any
man
do
eate
bloud
,
or
any
meate
dressed
or
made
with
it
,
if
he
be
a
Clergy
man
he
is
to
be
deposed
,
if
a
lay
man
,
he
is
to
be
excommunicated
;
so
as
if
this
Canon
be
in
force
,
M.
Collins
I
thinke
hath
deserued
to
be
deposed
from
the
Clergy
,
and
ministry
many
tymes
.
18.
I
omit
for
breuityes
sake
,
to
lay
downe
other
erroneous
Canons
of
that
Synod
,
which
Venerable
Bede
,
in
whose
tyme
it
was
held
,
in
his
booke
de
sex
aetatibus
,
and
Paulus
Diaconus
de
gestis
Longobardorum
lib
.
6.
cap
.
11.
do
worthily
call
Erraticam
Synodum
:
Witnessing
further
that
neither
Pope
Sergius
,
nor
Pope
Iohn
the
7.
nor
Pope
Constantine
could
euer
be
induced
either
by
force
or
flattery
,
or
fraud
to
confirme
the
same
;
albeit
Iustinian
the
yonger
Emperour
in
whose
pallace
it
was
held
,
did
persecute
Pope
Sergius
for
the
same
,
in
such
sort
that
he
made
meanes
to
haue
him
taken
,
and
brought
prisoner
to
Constantinople
;
and
had
effected
it
,
if
the
Romans
had
not
rescued
and
deliuered
him
.
But
he
that
desireth
to
see
more
concerning
this
Councell
,
and
the
inualidity
thereof
,
may
receaue
full
sa●isfaction
by
the
refutation
of
M.
Ioseph
Halls
●pologeticall
discourse
,
written
by
C.
E.
a
●earned
friend
of
myne
,
who
hath
amply
●reated
thereof
in
his
second
Paragraph
●rom
num
.
45.
to
num
.
81.
and
amongst
di●ers
other
things
worthy
to
be
noted
,
set●eth
downe
diuers
Canons
of
that
Councell
,
wherein
the
doctrine
of
our
English
Clergy
at
this
day
,
is
in
many
points
ei●her
contradicted
or
condemned
,
and
therfore
I
remit
M.
Collins
therto
for
his
further
satisfaction
.
19.
Now
then
,
two
things
I
hope
are
euident
.
The
one
,
that
it
the
authority
of
this
Councell
be
ought
worth
M.
Collins
his
cake
is
dow
,
aswell
for
the
adoration
,
as
for
the
vse
of
pictures
.
Secondly
,
that
being
the
Councell
valid
,
or
voyd
,
he
hath
shewed
himselfe
a
cogging
companion
in
alledging
it
contrary
to
the
true
intent
,
&
meaning
thereof
:
for
although
he
sayth
truly
that
those
Fathers
did
forbid
the
paynting
of
a
Lamb
,
yet
they
did
it
not
to
the
end
,
&
purpose
which
he
pretendeth
(
that
is
to
say
to
forbid
thereby
the
vse
of
Pictures
)
but
because
they
thought
that
such
a
forme
did
not
sufficiently
and
worthily
expresse
the
humanity
of
our
Sauiour
,
whome
therfore
they
ordayned
to
be
represented
and
painted
in
his
owne
forme
and
shape
.
Can
any
thing
then
be
more
for
our
purpose
,
or
more
against
him
?
Thus
much
for
this
his
fraud
;
which
I
am
sure
you
will
graunt
to
be
a
sound
one
;
and
so
liberall
is
M.
Collins
in
this
kind
,
that
he
will
not
sticke
to
giue
yet
two
or
three
more
euen
touching
this
matter
of
Pictures
.
20.
The
next
consisteth
in
his
abuse
of
a
place
in
S.
Augustine
which
he
wresteth
in
like
manner
against
the
vse
of
Pictures
,
whereas
it
doth
notably
proue
the
same
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
257.
You
may
remember
what
S.
Augustine
sayth
de
consensu
Euangel
.
lib
.
cap
,
10.
Sic
errare
meruerunt
qui
Christum
non
in
codicibus
,
sed
in
pictis
parietibus
quaesierunt
.
So
they
deserued
to
be
mockt
,
that
sought
for
Christ
not
in
written
bookes
but
in
paynted
walls
.
Thus
farre
doth
M.
Collins
alleadge
S.
Augustine
.
21.
But
now
to
discouer
his
cozenage
therein
,
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
S.
Augustine
in
that
place
writeth
against
certayne
Paynims
,
who
feygned
that
they
had
seen
and
read
bookes
of
Magicke
written
by
our
Sauiour
Christ
to
S.
Peter
and
S.
Paul
;
for
the
confutation
whereof
he
sheweth
what
he
conceaued
might
be
the
ground
or
occasion
of
that
their
fiction
:
Credo
(
sayth
●e
)
quod
pluribus
locis
simul
eos
cum
illo
pictos
vide●ant
,
quia
meritae
Petri
&
Pauli
,
propter
eundem
●assionis
diem
celebrius
&
solemniter
Roma
commendat
.
I
belieue
that
they
had
seene
them
(
to
wit
,
S.
Peter
and
S.
Paul
)
paynted
togeather
with
Christ
●n
many
places
,
because
Rome
doth
with
great
solem●ity
and
celebrity
set
forth
the
merits
of
Peter
,
and
Paul
,
for
that
they
suffered
Martyrdome
both
in
one
●ay
.
22.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
those
Paynims
hauing
many
tymes
seene
our
Sauiour
paynted
togeather
with
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
,
and
iudging
therby
that
they
were
two
of
his
most
●amiliar
,
and
best
beloued
disciples
,
fayned
that
he
directed
his
books
of
Magicke
,
rather
to
them
,
then
to
any
other
,
albeit
S.
Paul
neuer
liued
with
Christ
(
as
we
Chri●tians
well
know
)
but
was
conuerted
,
and
made
an
Apostle
after
Christs
Ascension
.
and
because
those
Paynims
could
not
haue
beene
ignorant
heereof
,
and
haue
erred
so
grossely
,
if
they
had
sought
to
know
the
true
history
of
Christ
,
and
his
Apostles
,
by
the
written
Ghospell
of
the
Euangelists
,
&
other
bookes
of
Christians
,
and
not
by
Pictures
only
,
he
added
with
great
reason
,
Sic
errare
meruerunt
&c.
So
they
deserued
,
to
be
deceaued
who
sought
Christ
not
in
bookes
,
but
〈◇〉
painted
walls
.
23.
Who
now
is
so
senseles
,
as
n●
to
see
that
this
place
of
Saint
Augustine
do●
proue
euidently
the
common
vse
of
the
P●ctures
of
Christ
,
and
his
Apostles
in
t●●
Primitiue
Church
,
seeing
he
sayth
th●
those
Paynims
had
seene
Christ
paynte●
togeather
with
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
in
ma●●
places
?
And
what
sayth
S.
Augustine
heer●
to
shew
,
or
so
much
as
to
insinuate
any
d●
like
of
pictures
,
who
only
condemned
,
〈◇〉
worthily
derided
the
folly
of
those
P●●nims
in
that
they
grounded
their
knowle●
of
Christ
,
and
consequently
their
ficti●●
vpon
pictures
only
,
whereby
they
wer●
&
might
easily
be
deceaued
;
whereas
the●
might
well
haue
vnderstood
the
truth
b●
the
historyes
written
by
the
Euangelist●
and
other
Christians
.
And
what
is
this
〈◇〉
the
condemnation
of
the
vse
of
Pictures
?
〈◇〉
doubt
not
therefore
,
but
that
this
m●●
passe
also
for
a
fraud
,
besids
his
notable
folly
,
still
to
make
rodds
for
himselfe
,
by
producing
places
that
ouerthrow
him
.
24.
There
resteth
yet
a
fourth
fraud
o●
his
concerning
what
S.
Gregory
Nissen
say●
of
Pictures
in
the
place
by
me
alleadged
,
and
vrged
before
,
whereof
he
sayth
thus
,
Nissen
speakes
of
pictures
for
ornament
only
,
for
instruction
eyther
very
fayntly
,
or
not
at
all
.
So
sayth
this
honest
doctor
,
who
durst
not
haue
said
so
,
if
he
had
laid
downe
the
words
of
that
Father
alleadged
by
me
,
viz.
Solet
pictura
tacens
in
pariete
loqui
,
maximeque
prodesse
:
the
picture
which
is
silent
vpon
the
wall
is
wont
to
speak
,
and
profit
exceedingly
:
whereby
he
signifieth
(
not
fayntely
,
but
resolutely
)
that
pictures
in
the
Churches
serue
for
instruction
,
yea
,
&
moue
to
deuotion
,
and
vertue
;
for
els
,
how
could
he
say
that
they
speak
,
and
are
exceeding
profitable
,
but
because
men
are
not
only
taught
by
the
sight
of
them
,
what
to
imitate
in
the
Saints
,
but
also
moued
,
and
stirred
vp
thereby
to
the
imitation
of
thē
,
which
indeed
must
needs
be
very
profitable
,
and
auayle
very
much
to
the
obteyning
of
vertue
.
Loe
then
how
liberall
,
or
rather
how
prodigall
this
man
is
of
his
frauds
,
who
hath
bestowed
vpon
vs
no
lesse
then
halfe
a
dozen
,
in
a
discourse
wherein
he
professed
to
be
very
briefe
,
and
vpon
the
occasion
only
of
a
Parenthesis
of
myne
concerning
a
by-question
touched
by
the
way
;
what
marueyle
then
that
his
whole
worke
conteyning
aboue
550.
pages
be
fraught
with
so
many
fraudes
,
and
loaden
with
so
many
lyes
,
that
I
shall
not
haue
tyme
to
discouer
the
least
part
of
them
.
25.
But
now
to
conclude
concerning
the
place
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
,
I
doubt
not
,
but
that
you
haue
noted
therein
the
euident
testimony
that
he
giueth
of
the
beleif
and
practise
of
the
Church
in
his
dayes
conforme
to
ours
,
aswell
for
the
worship
of
holy
relicks
,
and
vse
of
pictures
in
the
Church
,
as
for
the
inuocation
of
saints
;
and
that
M.
Collins
hath
had
no
other
meanes
to
answer
it
then
by
a
pretence
of
petitio
principij
in
me
,
to
take
occasion
thereby
not
to
meddle
with
it
;
whereas
you
haue
seene
how
false
his
pretence
is
,
and
how
well
the
place
deserued
a
particuler
,
and
substantiall
answer
,
if
he
could
haue
giuen
any
to
any
purpose
.
But
now
let
vs
see
,
what
he
will
say
to
a
place
of
another
Auncient
Father
,
to
wit
Theodoret
,
which
I
alleadged
also
in
my
Adioynder
,
pag
.
289.
nu
.
44.
Thus
then
I
said
.
26.
This
acient
Father
writing
against
the
Gentills
of
his
tyme
,
and
prouing
by
many
euident
arguments
that
Christ
is
God
,
vrgeth
notably
the
great
honour
generally
exhibited
in
those
dayes
to
Martyrs
in
the
sumptuous
,
&
manificent
Churches
that
were
then
dedicated
vnto
them
,
wherof
he
sayth
thus
:
Neque
verò
ad
haec
per
annum
semel
,
aut
bis
&c.
We
do
not
vse
to
come
to
these
only
once
,
or
twyce
,
or
fiue
tymes
in
the
yeare
,
but
we
do
often
celebrate
festiuall
dayes
in
them
;
we
do
often
euery
day
sing
hymnes
,
and
prayses
to
the
Lord
of
those
Martyrs
;
and
men
that
are
in
health
do
pray
to
be
conserued
in
it
,
and
those
that
are
sicke
do
craue
health
;
also
barren
women
and
men
do
desire
to
haue
children
,
and
those
that
are
already
Fathers
doe
seeke
to
haue
their
Children
conserued
.
Also
trauaylers
{αβγδ}
.
Doe
craue
the
Martyrs
to
be
their
companions
in
their
way
,
and
guyds
of
their
iourney
;
and
those
that
are
safely
returned
,
giue
thankes
,
confessing
the
benefit
receiued
,
{αβγδ}
.
not
comming
to
them
,
as
to
Gods
,
but
praying
to
them
as
to
diuine
men
,
and
beseeching
them
to
be
intercessors
for
thē
.
And
that
they
do
obtayne
those
things
which
they
piously
,
and
faithfully
craue
,
it
is
testifyed
by
the
gifts
,
that
are
offered
by
such
as
haue
made
vowes
,
which
are
manifest
tokens
that
they
haue
obtayned
their
desired
health
;
for
some
do
hang
vp
figures
(
or
representations
)
of
eyes
,
some
of
feete
,
some
of
hands
,
all
made
of
siluer
,
or
gould
;
and
their
Lord
doth
gratefully
accept
what
gift
soeuer
is
giuen
,
and
disdayneth
none
,
though
neuer
so
small
and
meane
,
measuring
them
according
to
the
ability
of
the
giuer
.
Therefore
those
gifts
being
set
forth
to
the
publike
view
of
all
men
,
are
most
euident
signes
,
and
testimonyes
,
that
those
which
giue
them
are
freed
from
their
diseases
,
&
haue
recouered
their
health
.
These
I
say
,
do
shew
what
is
the
vertue
or
power
of
the
Martyrs
;
and
the
power
and
vertue
of
the
Martyrs
doth
declare
,
that
he
whome
they
haue
worshipped
and
serued
,
is
true
God
.
Thus
sayth
Theodoret
.
45.
And
can
any
man
desire
a
more
cleare
,
and
manifest
testimony
,
eyther
that
the
generall
custome
of
the
Church
was
to
pray
to
Saynts
in
his
tyme
,
or
that
God
approued
it
with
miraculous
effects
?
Yea
,
and
that
the
same
was
held
for
a
speciall
argument
to
proue
that
Christ
was
God
?
Wherein
also
it
is
to
be
obserued
,
that
the
vse
was
in
that
age
(
about
eleauen
hundred
yeares
agoe
)
to
hang
vp
votiue
Images
and
representations
of
hands
,
feete
,
eyes
,
and
such
like
,
to
testify
the
miraculous
recouery
of
bodily
health
by
the
intercession
of
Saynts
,
which
therefore
is
no
moderne
custome
of
these
later
ages
(
as
our
aduersaryes
falsely
affirme
it
to
be
)
but
an
auncient
practice
of
the
primitiue
Church
.
Wherupon
it
also
followeth
not
only
that
prayer
to
Saynts
is
most
lawfull
and
honorable
to
almighty
God
,
and
profitable
to
men
,
but
also
that
Saynts
hear
the
prayers
that
are
made
vnto
them
,
seeing
that
they
obtayne
the
grant
thereof
,
and
giue
succour
to
the
suppliants
.
Thus
said
I
in
my
Adioynder
.
28.
And
now
I
am
sure
(
good
Reader
)
thou
longest
to
see
,
with
what
sl●●ght
he
will
●eek
to
shift
of
this
.
The
truth
is
,
he
vndertaketh
to
answere
it
,
and
that
very
amply
,
but
with
such
falsehood
,
as
thou
wouldst
wonder
to
see
it
,
if
thou
hadst
not
seene
so
many
,
and
so
exorbitant
all
ready
that
now
it
wil
be
no
wonder
vnto
thee
.
First
he
seeketh
to
cast
vpon
me
some
suspition
of
fraud
,
or
falsity
,
saying
pag
.
273.
nu
.
23.
When
I
cast
myne
eyes
,
sayth
he
,
vpon
Theodorets
owne
text
(
not
as
you
trenlace
,
and
translate
it
at
pleasure
)
I
see
very
little
to
make
for
you
,
if
ought
at
all
.
So
he
,
seeming
to
charge
me
with
some
false
translation
,
albeyt
he
sheweth
nor
wherein
,
eyther
heere
or
els
where
,
no
not
so
much
as
of
any
one
word
;
which
he
would
infalliby
haue
done
with
no
small
tryumph
,
and
insultation
if
he
had
found
any
.
29.
But
then
he
goeth
forward
and
tells
vs
,
that
Theodoret
reports
only
fashion
,
and
vse
,
and
that
not
general
,
which
he
sayth
I
promysed
in
the
text
of
my
seauenth
Chapter
;
wherein
he
saith
truly
(
for
so
much
as
concerneth
my
promise
)
for
indeed
I
promised
there
to
shew
euidently
that
the
Inuocation
of
Saints
was
generally
practised
in
the
primitiue
Church
,
as
well
by
the
ancient
Fathers
,
as
by
all
other
faythful
Christians
;
to
which
purpose
I
produced
amongst
diuers
other
testimonyes
this
of
Theodoret
,
who
sheweth
it
manifestly
as
you
haue
seene
,
vrging
notably
against
the
Paynims
the
great
honour
that
was
done
generally
to
Martyrs
at
those
dayes
,
to
proue
that
Christ
is
God
;
and
therefore
whereas
M.
Collins
tells
his
Reader
,
That
Theodoret
reports
only
fashion
,
and
vse
,
but
not
generall
,
he
seekes
to
delude
him
egregiously
.
30.
Neuertheles
this
is
but
a
peccadilio
,
in
respect
of
that
which
followeth
a
few
lines
after
in
these
words
:
Neither
does
Thedoret
say
that
the
people
made
their
prayers
to
the
Martyrs
,
but
hauing
spoken
in
the
last
wordes
of
the
God
of
Martyrs
,
he
addes
immediatly
of
their
praying
for
all
such
things
as
they
stand
in
need
of
,
but
specifieth
not
to
whome
they
pray
for
them
,
whether
to
God
,
or
to
the
Martyrs
,
to
whome
then
rather
then
to
the
God
of
Martyrs
?
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
;
but
with
what
conscience
you
may
easily
iudg
by
reflecting
a
little
vpon
the
place
of
Theodoret
,
set
downe
by
me
a
little
before
,
wher
you
see
the
flat
contrary
of
that
which
he
affirmeth
;
for
wheras
he
sayth
,
that
Theodoret
doth
not
specify
to
whome
they
prayed
,
you
see
that
he
sayth
expresly
,
they
prayed
to
the
Martyrs
(
not
as
to
Gods
)
but
as
to
diuine
men
,
beseeching
them
to
be
intercessours
for
them
;
and
to
the
end
that
there
should
be
no
doubt
of
the
translation
of
Theodorets
wordes
out
the
Greeke
,
I
did
set
downe
the
greeke
Text
in
the
margent
of
my
Adioynder
(
as
I
haue
done
also
heere
)
that
the
learned
Reader
might
be
the
better
satisfyed
of
the
truth
thereof
.
31.
Now
then
can
any
man
thinke
,
that
M.
Collins
hath
any
conscience
at
al
,
or
any
sparke
either
of
grace
,
or
honesty
who
saw
this
,
and
not
only
dissembled
it
,
but
also
affirmed
the
quite
contrary
?
Yet
not
content
with
this
,
he
sayth
also
afterwards
in
the
next
page
,
that
wheras
Theodoret
sayd
that
the
poore
way-fayring
men
craued
the
Martyrs
to
accompany
them
in
their
way
,
he
turned
Rhetorical
,
and
meant
no
other
then
only
to
oppose
the
exaltation
of
Christian
Saints
to
the
Gentill
Gods
so
farre
,
as
was
compatible
with
Christs
true
Religion
:
and
how
proueth
he
this
?
Marry
forsooth
two
wayes
;
the
one
with
a
notable
foolery
,
and
the
other
with
a
manifest
,
&
shamefull
fraud
.
I
omit
the
foolery
to
discouer
the
fraud
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
:
Theodoret
correct●ng
himselfe
,
is
fayne
to
say
{αβγδ}
;
not
absurdely
distinguishing
betwixt
Dulia
,
and
Latria
,
as
your
bray●es
crow
;
but
deprecating
the
scandall
which
his
former
words
might
seeme
to
imply
.
So
he
.
32.
But
to
the
end
that
his
fraudulent
and
bad
conscience
may
the
better
appeare
thou
shalt
vnderstand
good
Reader
,
that
immediatly
after
those
greeke
wordes
,
which
he
alledgeth
viz
{αβγδ}
(
that
is
to
say
not
comming
to
them
,
as
to
God
)
ther
follow
immediatly
in
the
greek
text
of
Theodoret
these
words
:
{αβγδ}
&c.
(
that
is
to
say
,
but
praying
to
them
as
to
d●uine
men
&c.
which
wordes
doe
quite
spoyle
M.
Collins
his
deuise
,
and
ouerthrow
all
that
he
hath
sayd
heere
.
23.
For
it
proueth
,
that
Theodoret
did
not
turne
Rhetoricall
(
as
M.
Collins
tearmes
it
)
that
is
to
say
,
he
did
not
speake
rhetorica●ly
,
by
the
way
of
Amplification
,
when
he
sayd
,
that
the
way-faring
men
craued
the
Martyrs
to
be
their
Companions
in
their
way
,
but
spake
truly
as
he
thought
&
belieued
,
seeing
that
he
declareth
presently
after
,
in
what
sort
they
and
the
other
supplyants
of
the
sayd
Martyrs
,
craued
their
help
,
to
wit
,
praying
to
them
not
as
to
Gods
,
but
as
to
diuine
men
,
beseeching
them
to
be
intercessours
for
them
.
Heerby
also
it
appeareth
what
an
impertinent
and
idle
glosse
he
maketh
presently
after
vpon
these
wordes
of
Theodoret
{αβγδ}
,
which
he
sayes
,
does
not
force
that
they
prayed
to
the
Martyrs
to
accompany
them
,
whose
company
they
might
beg
as
well
of
God
,
and
he
licence
them
.
So
sayth
he
,
but
it
appeares
by
that
which
you
see
is
dissembled
by
him
,
that
they
prayed
to
the
Martyrs
themselues
,
though
not
as
to
Gods
,
but
as
to
diuine
men
.
34.
Lastly
,
wheras
he
sayth
,
that
Thedoret
doth
not
distinguish
betweene
Dulia
,
and
Latria
(
as
my
braynes
crow
)
because
he
correcteth
himselfe
,
saying
{αβγδ}
(
that
is
to
say
,
not
comming
to
them
as
to
Gods
)
I
thinke
he
was
no
lesse
brainles
then
shameles
,
when
he
wrot
so
;
for
albeit
those
greeke
wordes
alone
(
which
he
setteth
downe
)
do
not
distinguish
betwixt
Dulia
,
and
Latria
,
yet
being
connected
,
and
ioyned
with
the
other
which
immediatly
follow
(
&
were
by
him
shamfully
dissembled
)
they
make
a
plaine
distinction
betwixt
dulia
and
latria
though
not
in
formall
words
,
yet
in
substance
,
and
effect
.
For
when
Theodoret
sayth
,
that
those
supplyants
came
not
to
the
Martyrs
as
to
Gods
,
he
signifyeth
plainely
,
that
they
did
not
giue
to
the
Martyrs
diuin
honour
which
is
latria
,
and
is
due
to
God
alone
;
and
when
he
addeth
,
that
they
prayed
to
them
as
to
diuin
men
,
beseeching
them
to
be
intercessours
for
them
,
he
gaue
to
vnderstand
,
that
they
exhibited
vnto
them
an
inferiour
honour
due
to
Gods
glorifyed
seruants
which
we
call
Dulia
,
and
is
due
to
saints
.
So
as
you
see
how
false
&
found
he
is
in
euery
thing
.
35.
But
yet
the
silly
fellow
hath
not
the
wit
to
make
an
end
heere
,
but
within
foure
lines
after
falleth
vpon
two
other
greeke
wordes
of
the
same
sentence
of
Theodoret
,
to
wit
,
{αβγδ}
,
that
is
to
say
,
to
become
intercessours
,
which
he
glosseth
thus
:
As
for
{αβγδ}
,
let
the
Saints
pray
for
vs
as
much
as
you
will
,
that
is
nothing
to
our
question
of
praying
to
them
.
So
he
,
whereas
two
other
wordes
which
immediatly
follow
those
that
he
alleadgeth
,
do
vtterly
confound
him
;
for
there
followeth
{αβγδ}
,
so
as
the
sentence
is
,
{αβγδ}
{αβγδ}
,
that
is
to
say
,
and
beseeching
(
them
)
to
be
intercessours
for
them
;
&
is
this
,
trow
you
,
nothing
to
our
question
of
praying
to
those
martyrs
?
Besides
that
the
whole
period
being
,
as
I
haue
sayd
before
(
to
wit
,
not
comming
to
them
as
to
Gods
,
but
praying
to
them
as
vnto
diuine
men
,
and
beseeching
them
to
be
intercessours
for
them
)
doth
make
the
matter
far
more
cleare
,
and
doth
conuince
him
of
the
most
willfull
,
and
malicious
falshood
,
&
fraud
that
hath
byn
committed
by
any
writer
of
this
age
,
thogh
it
aboundeth
with
men
of
his
coate
,
and
profession
,
that
excell
in
that
faculty
.
36.
But
let
vs
yet
see
some
more
of
his
iugling
.
There
followeth
presently
after
in
my
Adioynder
,
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
in
his
book
de
cura
pro
mortuis
,
first
alleadged
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
pag
.
46.
to
proue
that
the
Saints
do
not
heare
our
prayers
,
or
know
our
actions
,
because
S.
Augustine
sayth
that
the
dead
are
not
present
at
the
affayres
of
men
;
in
answere
wherof
I
sayd
in
pag
.
291.
num
.
47.
that
his
Lordship
might
haue
learned
in
that
booke
of
S.
Augustine
,
which
he
cyteth
,
That
albeit
the
dead
do
not
naturally
know
what
passeth
in
earth
,
neither
are
ordinarily
conuersant
with
vs
,
yet
they
may
know
our
actions
as
well
by
the
relation
of
Angells
,
as
by
diuine
reuelation
,
yea
,
and
that
they
may
be
present
with
vs
,
and
help
vs
,
per
diuinam
potentiam
,
by
diuine
power
.
Thus
sayd
I
,
alleadging
for
the
same
S.
Augustine
,
de
cura
pro
mortuis
.
37.
And
will
you
now
see
,
what
M.
Collins
sayth
to
this
?
Truely
he
thought
good
to
say
somewhat
to
it
,
&
to
do
his
best
to
proue
that
Saints
:
Do
not
know
our
prayers
by
the
relation
of
Angells
.
But
because
he
imagined
that
his
reasons
would
weigh
farre
lesse
in
the
iudgment
of
his
Reader
,
if
he
should
seeme
to
contradict
S.
Augustine
,
he
thought
it
best
to
make
no
mention
of
him
at
al
,
but
to
lay
all
his
battery
against
me
,
as
though
I
alone
had
sayd
it
,
and
of
my
own
head
:
so
as
now
I
must
be
beaten
for
S.
Augustine
,
or
rather
he
in
my
coate
,
&
skyn
,
but
you
,
I
thinke
,
will
wonder
what
potent
reasons
could
make
this
silly
Doctour
so
confident
as
to
contemne
and
impugne
the
authority
of
one
of
the
greatest
Doctors
of
Gods
Church
.
You
shall
heare
them
,
for
albeit
I
had
determined
,
and
promised
to
meddle
no
more
with
his
fooleryes
,
yet
for
as
much
as
these
are
accompanied
with
a
continuall
fraud
,
in
that
he
dissembleth
&
impugneth
S.
Augustine
his
doctrine
,
throgh
out
the
whole
as
if
it
were
only
myne
,
I
hould
my selfe
obliged
to
answere
for
S.
Augustine
,
and
withall
as
well
to
discouer
his
folly
,
as
his
fraud
.
38.
Thus
then
he
sayth
p.
276
n
.
26.
Wheras
you
say
num
47.
that
the
Saints
know
our
prayers
by
the
relation
of
Angells
.
First
,
how
shall
the
Angells
know
them
to
relate
them
?
By
reuelation
from
God
,
you
will
say
:
but
he
that
reueales
to
the
Angells
might
reueale
to
the
Saints
,
eadem
opera
;
what
needs
this
reuelation
then
?
Sic
fieri
per
plura
,
quod
potuit
per
pauciora
.
Thus
sayth
this
deepe
Deuine
,
who
you
see
demands
how
the
Angells
do
know
our
prayers
to
relate
them
,
and
assures
himselfe
(
as
it
seemes
)
that
I
will
say
,
they
know
them
by
reuelation
.
39.
But
truly
he
is
much
deceaued
as
sure
as
he
makes
himselfe
;
for
albeit
I
doe
not
deny
,
but
that
they
may
know
our
prayers
by
reuelation
,
yet
it
were
great
folly
to
thinke
that
they
need
reuelation
to
know
those
things
which
they
see
&
know
by
ordinary
meanes
.
Hath
not
this
great
Doctour
trow
you
,
read
in
the
holy
Script●res
Haebr
.
1.
that
the
Angells
are
all
Administratorij
spiritus
&c.
Ministring
spirits
sent
for
them
,
which
shall
receaue
the
inheritance
of
saluation
,
whereby
he
may
vnderstand
,
that
they
are
continually
imployed
by
Almighty
God
heere
in
earth
for
the
benefit
and
good
of
his
elect
?
Or
can
he
be
ignorant
of
that
which
our
Sauiour
himselfe
doth
teach
vs
,
Matth
.
18.
to
wit
,
that
Angeli
eorum
&c.
The
Angells
of
his
little
ones
do
alwayes
see
the
face
of
his
Father
,
which
is
in
heauen
?
Vpon
which
place
and
diuers
others
in
the
holy
Scriptures
(
which
I
omit
)
the
ancient
Fathers
do
teach
both
the
continuall
presence
of
Angells
amongst
vs
,
and
also
that
euery
man
hath
a
proper
Angell
for
his
guardian
or
keeper
.
43.
So
sayth
S.
Hierome
lib
.
3.
comment
.
in
Matth
.
S.
Ambrose
lib
.
de
viduis
.
S.
August
.
Tom
.
10.
serm
.
8.
de
natali
Domini
.
S.
Basil
.
in
psal
.
48.
&
contra
Eunom
.
lib
.
3.
where
he
proueth
it
by
diuers
places
of
Scriptures
.
The
like
doth
S.
Chrysostome
hom
.
40.
in
cap
.
21.
Matth
.
Also
Origen
hom
.
33.
in
Luc
.
Ioan
.
Cassian
.
coll
.
13.
Cyril
.
contra
Iulian
.
lib
.
4.
and
to
omit
others
,
S.
Bernard
serm
.
12.
vpon
the
psalme
Qui
habitat
;
where
he
aduiseth
vs
to
yeild
to
our
proper
Angells
,
deuotion
for
their
beneuolence
,
loue
for
their
care
,
and
reuerence
for
their
presence
,
and
continual
assistance
.
Whereby
M.
Collins
may
fall
into
the
account
of
his
own
beastly
ingratitude
,
towardes
his
proper
Angell
,
and
all
other
holy
Angells
,
seeing
that
he
doth
not
acknowledge
the
continual
benefits
,
that
he
and
all
other
men
receaue
by
them
,
but
also
blasphemously
impugneth
the
respect
,
reuerence
,
&
honour
that
is
due
vnto
them
.
Well
then
this
being
so
,
what
need
haue
the
Angels
of
an
extraordinary
reuelation
from
Almighty
God
,
or
know
our
prayers
,
and
actions
which
they
vnderstand
,
and
see
continually
being
amongst
vs
?
41.
Furthermore
he
cannot
be
excused
of
a
wilfull
,
and
fraudulent
dissimulation
of
S.
Augustins
discourse
in
this
place
concerning
this
poynt
,
confirmed
by
him
with
the
Authority
of
the
holy
Scripture
,
and
therefore
I
think
good
to
lay
downe
S.
Augustins
words
heere
.
Possunt
,
sayth
he
,
&
ab
Angelis
,
qui
rebus
quae
aguntur
hic
praesto
sunt
,
audire
aliquid
mortui
&c.
the
dead
may
also
heare
by
the
Angells
(
which
are
present
here
at
such
things
as
are
done
)
some
such
thing
as
he
,
to
whome
all
things
are
subiect
,
doth
iudge
fit
for
euery
one
of
thē
to
vnderstand
,
for
if
Angells
could
not
be
present
in
the
places
both
of
the
liuing
,
and
the
dead
,
our
Lord
Iesus
would
not
haue
said
thus
:
It
came
to
passe
that
the
poore
man
dyed
,
and
was
carryed
by
Angels
into
the
bosome
of
Abraham
;
therfore
they
may
be
sometimes
heere
,
and
sometymes
there
who
by
the
will
of
God
carryed
(
Lazarus
)
from
hence
thither
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
.
42.
And
might
not
this
haue
sufficed
to
informe
this
Doctor
that
S.
August
.
did
not
only
hold
that
the
Angells
may
know
our
actions
by
being
present
with
vs
,
but
also
that
he
confirmed
the
same
with
the
authority
of
Scripture
?
wherto
if
I
should
add
al
the
places
of
the
ould
,
&
new
Testament
,
which
do
testify
the
ordinary
imployments
,
&
ministery
of
Angels
on
earth
&
their
intercourse
in
humane
affayres
,
it
might
seem
incredible
that
a
Doctor
&
a
publick
professor
of
diuinity
should
be
so
ignorant
of
it
,
as
to
thinke
that
they
cannot
know
our
prayers
,
but
by
reuelation
.
43.
But
put
the
case
yt
were
so
,
how
would
it
follow
that
the
reuelation
were
needles
as
he
inferreth
?
Marry
sayth
he
,
because
God
might
reueale
to
the
Saints
eadem
operâ
,
and
so
auoyd
the
inconuenience
of
doing
the
things
per
plura
,
which
may
be
done
by
pauciora
.
But
how
absurd
,
&
ridiculous
is
this
?
for
so
should
all
secondary
causes
cease
,
as
needeles
,
because
Almighty
God
might
do
all
things
by
his
omnipotent
power
,
without
vsing
any
instrument
or
meane
;
so
then
was
it
needeles
and
superfluous
,
that
an
Angell
should
be
sent
to
the
bl●ssed
Virgin
,
or
to
Zacharias
Luc
.
1.
or
to
S
Ioseph
;
because
God
might
haue
reuealed
his
will
vnto
them
himself
imediately
;
so
also
was
the
ministery
of
Angels
superfluous
,
and
needlesse
,
when
they
were
imployed
,
and
sent
by
Almighty
God
in
the
ould
Testament
to
the
Patriarches
,
&
Prophets
;
and
to
insist
also
vpon
the
example
alleadged
by
S.
Augustine
,
it
was
needles
that
the
Angels
should
carry
the
soule
of
Lazarus
into
Abrahams
bosome
,
whither
Almighty
God
might
haue
transported
it
by
his
only
will
,
or
word
,
by
the
which
he
made
heauen
and
earth
,
and
all
things
els
.
44.
Finally
,
if
M.
Collins
will
tye
Almighty
God
to
do
nothing
per
plura
,
which
he
may
doe
per
pauciora
,
he
most
needes
confesse
,
that
it
was
superfluous
,
and
in
vayn
,
that
7.
dayes
should
be
spent
in
the
Creation
of
the
world
,
which
God
might
haue
made
in
an
instant
;
and
the
like
may
be
sayd
of
our
Redemption
,
and
of
the
gouernement
of
the
Church
:
&
of
the
whole
world
,
wherein
wee
see
God
doth
effect
very
many
things
,
or
rather
all
things
by
the
ministery
of
his
seruants
,
and
other
Creatures
,
which
he
might
do
by
his
owne
power
immediately
,
if
in
his
diuine
wisdome
he
thought
it
conuenient
.
45.
Do
you
see
then
what
a
wise
Doctor
we
haue
,
who
argueth
so
substantially
,
as
not
only
to
deny
to
Almighty
God
the
seruice
,
vse
,
and
ministery
of
his
Creatures
(
because
he
may
do
his
will
without
them
)
but
also
to
controle
the
manner
of
our
Creation
,
and
redemption
,
because
frustra
fit
per
plura
quod
fieri
potest
per
pauciora
.
But
let
vs
see
some
more
of
his
arguments
.
Secondly
sayth
he
,
Who
makes
that
the
Angells
worke
to
be
offerers
of
our
prayers
to
the
Saints
in
heauen
?
Is
this
worthy
of
them
?
Is
it
a
fit
work
to
imploy
Angells
about
?
So
he
:
wherto
I
answere
,
that
S.
Augustine
was
belike
much
ouerseene
in
assigning
to
the
Angells
so
meane
an
office
:
but
perhaps
the
ouersight
may
be
rather
in
M.
Collins
,
who
measuring
the
Angells
by
himself
,
imagineth
that
those
celestial
spirits
are
as
proud
and
vncharitable
as
he
,
who
if
he
were
an
Angell
(
as
he
is
neuer
like
to
be
,
except
perhaps
some
bad
Angell
,
and
one
of
the
worst
)
he
would
disdaine
to
be
so
imployed
;
but
seeing
that
their
humility
,
&
charity
is
such
,
that
they
vouchsafe
to
vndertake
the
guard
and
protection
of
men
in
earth
(
yea
of
the
greatest
sinners
)
S.
Augustine
had
great
reason
to
think
,
that
they
refuse
not
to
do
all
the
charitable
offices
,
that
are
any
way
requisite
for
the
good
,
and
comfort
of
the
elect
,
for
whose
saluation
they
are
sent
,
and
imployed
heere
in
earth
,
as
I
signifyed
before
out
of
the
Apostle
to
the
Heb
.
cap
.
1.
46.
But
will
you
heare
how
he
confoundeth
S.
Augustine
,
and
ouerthroweth
him
quite
?
He
goeth
forward
thus
:
And
surely
if
this
be
once
entertayned
,
that
the
Angells
acquaint
the
Saints
with
our
prayers
,
which
els
they
should
not
know
but
for
them
,
will
not
the
Pagan
opinion
which
S.
Ambrose
hissed
out
(
and
you
with
him
euen
now
)
returne
;
that
God
should
be
ignorant
also
of
our
affayres
vnlesse
the
Angells
reuealed
them
?
For
you
make
the
Angells
to
offer
our
prayers
to
God
,
to
a
iust
reward
of
your
peruerting
so
the
Apocalyps
cap
.
5.
vers
.
8.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
like
a
deep
Deuine
and
a
terrible
Logician
,
in
so
much
that
S.
Augustine
was
neuer
so
put
to
his
trumps
by
any
aduersary
of
his
(
were
he
Manichaean
,
Donatist
,
or
Pelagian
)
as
he
is
now
by
M.
Collins
;
but
because
S.
Augustine
cannot
answere
for
himselfe
,
I
will
be
so
bould
as
to
answere
for
him
,
and
say
somewhat
briefly
to
this
powerfull
argument
.
47.
Therfore
,
first
it
is
to
be
considered
that
Saint
Augustine
sayth
not
,
that
the
Saints
cannot
know
our
prayers
but
by
Angells
(
as
M.
Collins
seemeth
falsely
to
suppose
)
but
that
the
Saints
do
not
naturally
know
what
is
done
in
earth
,
and
yet
that
they
may
know
it
,
either
by
the
Angells
,
or
by
reuelation
from
Almighty
God
.
And
put
the
case
that
S.
Aug.
had
sayd
as
M.
Colli●●
relateth
that
they
do
not
know
our
prayers
but
by
Angells
,
how
would
it
follow
,
that
the
Pagan
opinion
(
hissed
out
by
S.
Ambrose
)
would
returne
(
to
wit
,
that
God
should
be
ignorant
of
our
affayres
,
if
the
Angells
did
not
reueale
thē
to
him
?
)
Would
any
man
be
so
absurd
to
thinke
that
the
infinite
wisedome
,
and
knowledge
of
God
doth
any
way
depend
vpon
the
limitted
knowledge
of
Saints
,
or
Angells
,
and
to
inferre
thereupon
,
that
God
cannot
know
some
thinges
without
the
reuelation
of
Angels
because
the
Saints
cannot
?
Who
euer
heard
the
like
inference
?
Which
therefore
may
wel
be
hissed
out
with
the
Pagan
opinion
,
and
M.
Collins
also
,
for
supposing
,
that
any
Christian
man
would
be
so
simple
,
and
absurd
to
make
it
.
48.
Yea
,
but
(
sayth
he
)
you
make
the
Angells
to
offer
our
prayers
to
God
too
?
What
then
M.
Collins
?
Will
that
bring
in
the
Pagans
opinion
,
that
God
can
know
nothing
but
by
Angells
?
We
make
also
the
Priest
(
when
he
offereth
sacrifice
at
the
Altar
)
offer
vp
our
prayers
to
Almighty
God
,
and
must
we
needes
thinke
therefore
that
God
could
not
know
them
but
by
him
?
The
office
of
the
Bishops
,
&
Priests
in
the
ould
Law
was
to
offer
to
God
the
sacrifice
,
and
prayers
of
the
people
(
as
mediatours
betwixt
God
and
them
)
but
was
there
euer
any
so
ridiculous
to
thinke
,
that
they
did
it
,
because
God
could
not
other
wayes
vnderstand
the
necessityes
and
prayers
of
the
people
but
by
them
?
Yet
this
forsooth
is
the
Club
,
wherwith
this
great
Hercules
hoped
to
beat
downe
S.
Augustine
.
49.
But
what
he
meaneth
by
his
conclusion
,
That
this
is
a
iust
reward
of
our
peruerting
the
Apoc
.
cap
.
5.
vers
.
8.
I
know
not
for
my
part
,
neither
how
we
peruert
that
place
in
the
Apocalyps
,
neither
how
we
are
rewarded
for
it
;
the
place
is
cleare
to
proue
that
the
Angells
offer
vp
the
prayers
of
the
holy
men
on
earth
,
by
the
interpretation
of
S.
Iohn
himself
,
saying
that
the
24
Seniors
had
euery
one
golden
Phialas
,
plenas
odoramentorum
,
quae
sunt
orationes
sanctorum
,
full
of
sweet
odours
,
which
are
the
prayers
of
the
holy
;
which
words
can
haue
no
other
litterall
sense
,
but
that
the
Angells
offer
to
God
,
orationes
Sanctorum
,
the
prayers
of
holy
men
.
So
as
M.
Collins
,
and
his
fellowes
may
be
ashamed
to
deny
it
(
what
mysticall
sense
soeuer
is
,
or
may
be
drawne
out
of
it
)
therfore
when
he
shall
tell
vs
,
what
other
litterall
sense
it
hath
,
and
how
we
peruert
it
,
I
will
answere
him
further
.
50.
In
the
meane
tyme
he
may
vnderstand
if
it
please
him
,
that
it
is
no
new
opynion
of
the
Catholicks
at
this
day
,
that
the
Angells
do
offer
vp
our
prayers
to
God
,
seeing
that
S.
Hilary
teacheth
it
in
his
exposition
of
the
Psalme
129.
alleadging
the
example
of
the
Angell
Raphael
in
Tobias
:
the
like
doth
S.
Hierome
vpon
the
10.
of
Daniel
,
expounding
the
Angels
wordes
to
Daniel
thus
:
I
am
that
Angell
,
which
offers
thy
prayers
to
God
.
Also
S
Augustine
in
his
Epist
120.
cap
.
92.
affirmeth
expresly
that
the
Angells
doe
not
only
signify
the
benefits
of
God
to
vs
,
but
also
represent
our
prayers
to
him
:
and
finally
to
omit
others
,
S.
Bernard
serm
.
7.
in
Cantica
,
sayth
:
Credimus
sanctos
Angelos
&c.
We
belieue
that
the
holy
Angells
are
present
with
men
when
they
pray
,
and
offer
their
prayers
to
God
.
Therfore
to
conclude
this
point
,
2.
things
are
euident
heerein
;
the
one
,
that
M.
Collins
hath
impugned
S.
Augustine
most
ridiculously
,
and
childishly
;
the
other
that
he
hath
done
it
with
great
fraude
,
and
craft
vnder
my
name
only
,
whereas
the
discourse
and
doctrine
which
he
taxeth
,
is
S.
Augustines
,
&
as
his
only
alleadged
and
related
by
me
.
51.
The
like
he
hath
done
also
afterwards
with
much
more
fraud
,
touching
another
place
of
S.
Augustine
in
the
same
booke
,
de
cura
pro
mortuis
,
which
I
cyted
in
my
Adioynder
to
proue
the
apparition
of
Saints
,
and
the
help
they
affoard
to
their
supplyants
;
the
occasion
was
,
that
the
Cardinall
alleadged
the
words
of
S.
Augustine
testifying
the
apparition
of
S.
Felix
in
the
siege
of
Nola
,
thus
:
Audiuimus
non
incertis
rumoribus
,
sed
certis
testibus
&c.
We
haue
heard
not
by
vncertaine
rumours
,
but
by
assured
witnesses
,
that
the
Confessour
Felix
hath
appeared
not
only
by
the
effects
of
benefits
,
but
also
to
the
sights
of
men
.
Thus
farre
the
Cardinall
alleadgeth
Saint
Augustines
wordes
.
Whereto
my
Lord
of
Winchester
answered
in
his
Apology
cap
.
8.
pag
.
178.
that
,
de
Felice
Augustinus
nihil
praeter
auditum
habet
&c.
Concerning
Felix
Augustine
hath
nothing
but
by
hear-say
,
and
whether
it
were
done
by
the
very
presence
of
the
Martyrs
,
or
by
Angells
taking
the
shape
of
the
Martyrs
vpon
them
,
or
perhaps
by
both
these
wayes
,
Augustine
dare
not
determine
,
so
vncertaine
is
he
touching
this
question
of
apparitions
.
Thus
sayd
my
Lord
:
wherto
I
replyed
in
my
Anioyder
,
that
it
appeared
euidently
by
the
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
before
recyted
,
that
he
giueth
another
manner
of
assurance
of
this
apparition
,
then
my
Lord
acknowledged
in
his
answere
,
who
maketh
it
a
matter
very
vncertayne
,
as
depending
vpon
a
bare
heare-say
,
whereas
S.
Augustine
excludeth
all
vncertainty
of
rumours
,
and
fortifyeth
his
relation
,
with
the
testimonyes
of
assured
witnesses
.
Thus
sayd
I
,
pag
.
394.
num
.
42.
52.
And
now
that
you
may
see
how
substantially
M.
Collins
answereth
this
,
and
how
faythfully
he
relateth
the
substance
of
my
reply
,
you
shall
heare
his
owne
words
;
thus
then
he
sayth
pag
383.
num
.
20.
To
your
numb
.
42.
&
43.
What
we
heare
from
witnesses
,
yet
we
do
but
heare
,
when
you
haue
made
the
most
of
it
,
so
as
the
Bishop
might
well
say
:
Augustinus
nihil
praeter
auditum
habet
,
Augustine
hath
nothing
more
then
hear-say
,
meaning
,
he
reports
not
this
of
his
owne
knowledge
,
though
he
would
not
seeme
to
deny
credit
to
those
witnesses
;
which
many
a
man
to
say
truth
is
loth
to
do
,
I
mean
to
detract
any
thing
from
the
credit
of
the
reporters
,
euen
then
when
he
scarse
belieues
that
which
is
tould
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
.
53.
But
could
he
(
thinke
you
)
haue
sayd
this
for
shame
,
if
he
had
set
downe
S.
Augustines
wordes
alleadged
,
and
vrged
by
me
,
as
before
you
haue
seene
?
S.
Augustin
testifyeth
the
apparition
not
vpon
vncertaine
rumours
(
as
he
himselfe
sayth
)
but
by
the
testimony
of
assured
witnesses
,
confirmed
also
by
the
effects
of
benefits
,
no
lesse
then
by
the
sight
of
men
;
and
M.
Collins
maketh
it
doubtful
,
whether
S.
Augustine
belieued
it
or
no
;
as
if
out
of
courtesy
,
and
good
manners
only
he
would
not
derogate
from
the
credit
of
the
reporters
,
though
he
scarce
belieued
it
;
for
so
M.
Collins
insinuateth
,
though
he
do
not
affirme
it
directly
of
S.
Augustin
,
but
of
many
a
man
,
which
neuertheles
he
would
haue
you
to
suppose
of
S.
Augustine
in
this
case
;
for
els
why
doth
he
say
it
?
May
not
this
passe
as
well
for
a
fraud
,
as
for
a
miserable
&
poore
defence
of
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
bare
heare-say
?
But
let
vs
proceed
to
the
rest
of
my
Lords
answer
touching
the
manner
of
such
apparitions
,
wherof
I
sayd
thus
,
pag
.
394.
num
.
43.
54.
Whereas
M.
Andrews
addeth
,
that
S.
Augustine
was
so
vncertayne
of
this
matter
of
apparitions
,
that
he
durst
not
define
,
whether
they
were
made
by
the
Saints
themselues
,
or
by
Angels
in
their
lykenes
,
he
saith
true
,
though
I
know
not
what
he
can
inferre
thereon
for
his
purpose
,
seeing
that
S.
Augustine
maketh
no
question
of
the
verity
of
apparitions
(
and
much
lesse
of
the
benefit
and
help
which
deuout
people
receiued
thereby
)
but
only
of
the
manner
how
the
same
was
performed
,
&
therefore
he
saith
in
the
beginning
of
that
discourse
,
Ista
quaestio
&c.
This
question
surpasseth
the
force
of
my
vnderstanding
,
how
Martyrs
do
help
those
,
quod
per
eos
certum
est
adiuuari
,
who
it
is
certayne
are
helped
by
them
.
So
he
.
And
then
proceedeth
with
the
question
,
whether
the
Martyrs
are
themselus
present
in
so
diuers
places
,
and
so
far
asunder
at
one
tyme
,
or
whether
Almighty
God
do
satisfie
the
deuotion
of
the
people
by
the
ministery
of
Angels
,
through
the
merits
of
the
Martyrs
,
or
els
whether
it
be
done
both
waies
.
This
he
saith
he
dare
not
define
,
confessing
and
teaching
euidently
as
much
as
we
require
in
this
matter
,
to
wit
that
deuout
people
are
certainly
helped
by
the
Martyrs
.
Neyther
is
it
to
be
wondred
,
that
S.
Augustine
would
not
take
vpon
him
to
determine
how
the
same
was
wrought
,
saying
that
euen
in
ordinary
and
naturall
things
,
the
effects
are
euident
and
certayne
,
and
yet
the
causes
are
many
tymes
eyther
vncertayn
,
or
els
wholy
vnknowne
,
which
is
to
be
graunted
much
more
in
supernaturall
and
miraculous
euents
,
as
I
haue
shewed
euidently
in
the
last
Chapter
,
where
I
haue
confuted
such
another
ridiculous
argument
of
his
against
Prayer
to
Saints
.
55.
For
albeit
he
had
resolued
,
that
the
Saints
themselues
do
not
appeare
or
assist
at
their
tombes
,
but
Angels
in
their
shape
and
lykenes
;
yet
it
could
not
be
sayd
but
that
apparition
is
theirs
,
being
made
by
Gods
expresse
ordinance
for
their
merits
,
in
their
name
&
lykenes
,
for
the
benefit
of
those
that
expect
&
craue
their
help
;
especially
seeing
it
is
vsually
said
in
the
holy
Scriptures
,
that
God
spake
&
appeared
to
Abraham
Gen.
18.
&
Moyses
Exod
.
3.
when
neuertheles
it
was
done
by
the
ministry
of
Angels
,
and
not
in
any
shape
that
could
represent
him
;
and
therfore
S.
Augustine
had
great
reason
to
say
,
that
S.
Felix
appeared
,
&
that
the
Martyrs
per
diuinam
potentiam
viuorum
rebus
intersunt
,
are
by
the
diuine
power
present
at
the
doings
or
affaires
of
men
:
although
afterward
he
moueth
a
question
concerning
the
manner
of
it
,
and
doth
not
deny
,
but
that
it
may
be
done
by
the
ministery
of
Angels
.
Hereby
then
it
appeareth
,
that
this
place
of
S.
Augustine
so
clearely
proueth
the
Apparition
of
Saints
,
&
that
men
are
helped
by
their
prayers
and
merits
,
that
M.
Andrews
had
no
other
way
to
shift
it
off
handsomly
,
but
to
omit
the
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
as
of
small
moment
,
&
testifying
only
a
sleight
matter
o
heare-say
.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
.
56
To
all
this
M.
Collins
answereth
thus
pag
.
384.
lin
.
15.
But
is
not
that
pretty
,
number
44.
that
though
the
Saints
appeare
not
in
their
own
persons
,
yet
the
apparition
may
wel
be
called
theyrs
,
viz.
because
Angells
appeare
for
them
in
their
name
and
likenes
;
as
if
the
diuell
did
not
counterfeit
their
name
and
likenes
too
,
and
therefore
he
appearing
,
they
may
be
sayd
to
appeare
,
as
well
,
as
when
the
Angells
,
by
this
reason
.
So
he
:
wherein
it
is
to
be
noted
,
first
that
he
passeth
ouer
with
silence
all
S.
Augustines
discourse
,
without
so
much
as
mentioning
it
or
him
,
to
the
end
that
he
might
seeme
to
impugne
me
only
,
and
not
him
:
secondly
that
which
he
setteth
downe
in
a
different
letter
,
as
my
words
(
or
at
least
as
the
substance
therof
)
is
farre
different
from
myne
,
which
cannot
by
any
meanes
admit
that
diuellish
example
which
he
bringeth
of
the
Diuell
appearing
in
the
name
,
&
likenes
of
a
Saint
.
57.
For
the
reason
which
I
gaue
,
why
the
apparition
of
an
Angell
in
the
name
,
and
likenes
of
a
Saint
,
may
be
called
the
apparition
of
the
Saint
,
had
three
grounds
,
to
wit
,
because
it
is
made
first
by
Gods
expresse
ordinance
,
secondly
,
for
the
merits
of
the
Saints
,
and
thirdly
for
the
benefit
of
those
that
expect
,
and
craue
his
help
;
of
which
three
respects
or
considerations
,
the
●wo
later
do
exclude
all
diabolical
illusions
●nd
therefore
M.
Collins
doth
not
mention
any
of
them
in
the
words
before
alleadged
by
him
,
as
myne
,
but
maketh
me
say
;
that
the
Angells
apparition
is
the
Saints
appa●ition
,
&
this
for
no
other
cause
,
but
because
Angells
appeare
for
the
Saints
in
their
name
,
&
like●●es
,
as
,
sayth
he
,
the
Diuell
also
doth
.
But
when
or
where
the
Diuell
doth
it
,
or
hath
done
it
,
he
doth
not
tell
vs
:
neuerthelesse
I
do
not
deny
,
but
that
the
Diuell
may
do
●t
,
if
God
will
ordaine
,
or
permit
it
,
in
which
case
I
graunt
also
that
his
apparition
may
be
called
the
apparition
of
the
Saint
,
as
in
the
opinion
of
some
(
especially
of
the
Heretickes
of
this
tyme
)
Samuel
is
sayd
in
the
Scripture
1.
Reg
.
28.
to
haue
appeared
,
when
neuerthelesse
they
say
the
Diuell
appeared
in
his
likenes
;
so
as
(
according
to
their
opinion
)
M.
Collins
his
diuellish
instance
maketh
directly
for
me
,
and
against
him
.
58.
And
therefore
he
goeth
the
more
boldly
forward
striking
stil
at
me
by
name
(
but
lighting
indeed
vpon
S.
Augustine
)
carping
at
one
of
those
considerations
of
his
,
which
before
he
omitted
,
and
concealed
,
to
wit
,
touching
the
Saints
merits
,
whereof
he
sayth
thus
:
yet
ridiculously
you
add
,
that
Angel●
appeare
for
the
Saints
merits
,
and
so
the
Angells
apparition
is
the
Saints
apparition
.
So
he
,
making
S.
Aug.
ridiculous
(
or
to
say
truely
himself
rather
)
especially
considering
how
he
peruerteth
S.
Augustins
sense
,
concerning
the
Saints
merits
;
for
thus
he
sayth
:
But
first
we
haue
tould
you
our
mind
about
merits
,
in
the
former
part
of
this
book
,
which
if
any
were
in
this
life
,
yet
none
in
the
other
,
none
in
Patria
where
the
saints
are
.
They
haue
done
meriting
,
and
yet
to
merit
for
others
is
more
abominable
then
for
ones
self
.
But
for
men
to
merit
that
Angells
should
come
,
and
do
offices
in
their
names
is
most
absurd
of
all
,
and
therefore
worthy
of
F.
T.
whatsoeuer
he
is
.
59.
Thus
sayth
this
graue
Doctour
,
as
if
I
had
sayd
,
that
the
Martyrs
,
or
Saints
did
merit
in
heauen
,
whereas
I
only
relating
briefly
the
substance
of
S.
Augustines
discourse
,
do
make
mention
of
the
merits
of
the
Martyrs
in
the
same
sense
that
S.
August
.
doth
,
who
deuideth
the
question
into
two
members
,
or
parts
:
the
one
,
whether
the
Martyrs
themselues
are
present
at
their
memoryes
or
tombes
,
where
the
supplyants
●eceaue
help
or
comfort
,
or
whether
they
●eing
loco
meritis
suis
congruo
,
in
a
place
answ●rable
to
their
merits
(
meaning
no
doubt
●heir
merits
whilest
they
liued
on
earth
)
●nd
praying
generally
,
pro
indulgentiae
suppli●antium
,
for
the
need
of
the
supplyants
;
Almighty
God
hearing
the
prayers
of
the
said
Martyrs
,
doth
giue
comfort
,
and
reliefe
by
●he
ministry
of
Angells
,
&
out
of
his
mer●eilous
,
and
ineffable
power
and
bounty
,
●uorum
merita
Martyrum
commendat
,
doth
commend
or
illustrate
the
merits
of
his
Martyrs
where
,
when
,
and
how
he
will
,
and
espe●ially
at
their
memories
,
Quoniam
hoc
nouit
●obis
expedire
ad
aedificandam
fidem
Christi
,
pro
●uius
confessione
sunt
passi
,
because
he
knoweth
that
this
is
expedient
for
vs
,
for
the
edifica●ion
,
or
confirmation
of
the
fayth
of
Christ
,
●or
the
confession
whereof
they
suffered
.
Thus
saith
S.
Augustine
.
60.
And
albeit
he
sayth
,
that
he
dare
not
take
vpon
him
to
determine
how
the
Martyrs
do
giue
help
,
&
comfort
to
those
,
quos
per
eos
certum
est
adiuuari
,
who
it
is
cer●aine
are
helped
by
them
,
as
whether
it
be
done
by
one
of
these
two
wayes
before
specifyed
,
or
by
both
;
neuertheles
4.
thinges
are
euident
heerein
.
61.
The
first
,
that
he
acknowledgeth
expresly
,
that
the
help
is
giuen
by
the
Martyrs
,
saying
certum
est
,
it
is
certain
that
me●
are
helped
by
them
.
62.
The
second
is
,
that
both
thes●
wayes
,
are
in
his
opinyon
not
only
probable
,
but
also
most
conforme
to
the
Catholick
verity
and
fayth
:
for
otherwayes
he
would
not
haue
supposed
that
God
would
giue
succour
or
help
by
eyther
of
them
.
63.
The
third
is
,
that
he
holdeth
,
&
teacheth
here
,
that
God
doth
these
fauours
aswell
in
respect
of
the
prayers
of
the
Martyrs
,
(
exaudiens
,
sayth
he
,
Martyrum
pretes
hearing
,
or
graunting
the
Martyrs
prayers
)
〈◇〉
also
in
regard
of
the
merits
of
his
Martyrs
Commendans
suorum
merita
martyrum
,
commending
his
Martyrs
merits
,
that
is
to
say
,
shewing
or
testifying
their
merits
to
the
world
.
64.
Lastly
,
it
is
manifest
,
that
by
which
way
soeuer
the
benefit
be
done
(
eyther
by
the
presence
of
the
Martyrs
,
or
by
Angells
in
their
shape
or
likenes
)
the
apparition
may
(
in
S.
Augustins
opinyon
)
well
be
called
the
apparition
of
the
Martyrs
,
in
which
respect
he
sayth
plainely
that
S.
Faelix
appeared
in
the
seige
of
Nola
;
albeyt
he
is
doubtfull
,
as
you
see
,
whether
he
appeared
himselfe
,
on
an
angell
for
him
,
for
by
occasion
of
that
apparition
S.
Augustine
maketh
all
this
discourse
.
65.
This
being
so
,
I
must
beseech
good
M.
Collins
to
auert
his
wrath
,
and
indignation
from
me
,
and
to
lay
it
vpon
S.
Augustine
,
who
is
better
able
to
beare
it
,
and
deserueth
it
more
then
I
,
seeing
that
all
this
discourse
&
doctrin
is
his
,
as
well
touching
the
merits
of
Saints
,
as
the
benefits
which
God
bestoweth
vpon
men
to
testify
the
same
;
&
therefore
if
I
be
ridiculous
and
absurd
,
(
as
M.
Collins
termes
me
)
for
relating
only
S.
Augustines
opinion
and
doctryn
in
this
poynt
,
much
more
ridiculous
,
and
absurd
is
S.
Augustine
himselfe
for
houlding
and
teaching
it
;
but
howsoeuer
the
matter
passeth
with
S.
Augustine
and
me
,
M.
Collins
is
ridiculous
,
and
absurd
aboue
measure
,
not
only
in
beating
(
as
I
may
say
)
Iack
for
Iill
(
I
meane
me
for
S.
Augustine
)
but
also
in
doing
it
sciens
&
volens
,
wittingly
and
willfully
;
whereby
it
may
easely
be
iudged
,
that
notwithstanding
the
pretence
,
and
shew
he
maketh
,
much
to
respect
,
and
reuerence
the
auncient
Fathers
,
as
if
his
and
his
fellowes
doctryne
were
all
togeather
conforme
to
theirs
(
thereby
to
deceiue
and
seduce
the
vnlearned
Readers
)
yet
in
truth
he
beares
them
no
respect
at
all
,
but
rather
a
great
tooth
,
and
spleene
,
and
that
he
would
shew
it
euidently
if
he
durst
,
seeing
that
he
doth
it
with
such
virulency
,
when
he
can
do
it
by
indirect
meanes
,
and
couertly
as
here
you
see
he
hath
done
.
66.
But
now
good
Reader
there
remayne
yet
two
or
three
words
more
to
be
fifted
concerning
this
matter
,
wherin
we
shall
see
(
I
know
not
how
to
terme
it
)
eyther
a
most
foolish
fraud
,
or
a
most
fraudulent
foolery
.
It
followeth
in
M.
Collins
thus
:
At
last
,
you
graunt
(
sayth
he
)
in
the
same
number
,
that
not
only
Saints
may
appeare
i●
the
shape
of
Angells
,
but
that
God
himself
hath
done
so
de
facto
,
as
Genes
.
18.
Exod
.
3.
to
Abraham
,
and
Moyses
,
yet
before
you
sayd
,
that
the
Angell
whom
Abraham
worshipped
was
a
created
Angell
num
.
14.
how
does
this
hang
togeather
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
but
how
truly
,
I
report
me
to
my
owne
Text
,
which
you
haue
seene
before
nu
.
55.
cyted
out
of
my
Adioynder
,
where
I
said
the
cleane
contrary
to
that
which
he
setteth
down
as
myne
.
For
I
said
,
that
Angells
might
by
Gods
ordinance
appeare
in
the
likenes
of
the
Martyrs
,
suscipientes
(
as
S.
Augustine
sayth
)
personam
martyrum
,
taking
vpon
them
the
persons
,
or
shapes
of
the
Martyrs
,
and
not
that
the
Martyrs
or
Saints
might
appeare
in
the
shape
of
Angells
,
as
M.
Collins
affirmeth
,
turning
as
I
may
say
,
the
cat
in
the
pan
.
67.
Also
to
proue
that
such
apparitions
of
Angells
,
may
be
called
the
apparitions
of
the
Saints
,
I
added
that
the
like
manner
of
speach
is
vsuall
in
the
holy
Scripture
,
where
it
is
said
,
that
God
spake
and
appeared
to
Abraham
Gen.
18.
and
in
Moyses
Exodus
3.
when
neuerthelesse
God
himselfe
did
not
speake
,
and
appeare
,
but
vsed
therein
the
ministery
of
Angells
,
who
spake
,
and
appeared
for
him
;
whereas
M.
Collins
maketh
me
say
the
contrary
,
to
wit
,
that
God
appeared
in
the
shape
of
Angells
.
So
as
that
which
I
said
before
in
the
14.
number
(
to
wit
that
the
Angell
which
appeared
to
Abraham
was
a
created
Angell
)
hangs
very
well
togeather
,
with
that
which
I
say
heer
;
for
I
signify
in
both
places
,
that
a
crea●ed
Angell
appeared
to
Abraham
for
God
,
although
it
is
said
in
Scripture
,
that
God
appeared
.
68.
Behold
then
the
humour
of
this
honest
man
,
who
sometymes
dissembleth
my
whole
text
,
or
that
which
most
importeth
in
it
,
and
sometymes
peruerteth
it
,
that
he
may
haue
somewhat
to
say
with
some
shew
of
probability
,
to
cozen
,
and
deceiue
such
at
least
,
as
shall
not
see
my
Adioynder
,
which
he
knoweth
few
haue
done
,
and
are
like
to
doe
,
by
reason
of
the
prohibition
of
Catholike
bookes
in
England
;
sed
veritas
temporis
filia
,
but
truth
is
the
daughter
of
tyme
;
and
as
our
sauiour
said
,
nihil
est
opertum
quod
non
reuelabitur
,
nec
occultum
quod
non
scietur
.
Matth
.
10.
69.
But
forasmuch
as
this
very
place
of
S.
Augustine
touching
the
interuention
of
the
dead
in
the
affaires
of
men
,
hath
beene
yet
further
abused
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
in
another
place
with
no
small
abuse
also
offered
to
Cardinall
Bellarmyne
(
wherewith
I
chardged
his
Lordship
,
very
deeply
in
my
Adioynder
)
I
wil
therfore
now
lay
it
downe
here
,
and
then
consider
how
well
M.
Collins
hath
discharged
his
obligation
to
my
Lord
,
in
clearing
him
therof
.
Thus
then
I
sayd
pag
.
410.
nu
.
62.
70.
Vpon
the
occasion
of
certaine
places
of
the
Fathers
alledged
by
the
Cardinall
,
to
shew
the
custome
of
praying
to
Saynts
in
the
primitiue
Church
,
M.
Andrews
goeth
about
to
proue
that
Saynts
do
not
know
what
we
do
heere
on
earth
,
eyther
by
seeing
the
same
in
God
,
or
by
seeing
themselues
present
among
vs
;
&
hauing
alleadged
3.
or
4.
authorities
for
the
former
point
(
which
he
may
see
sufficiently
answered
in
Cardinall
Bellarmines
Controuersies
)
he
saith
for
the
letter
,
mortuos
autem
rebus
nostris
non
interuenire
sensit
Augustinus
.
Augustine
was
of
opinion
that
the
dead
are
not
present
at
our
affaires
,
for
the
which
he
quoteth
no
place
of
S.
Augustine
,
but
addeth
,
quis
hoc
refert
?
Cardinalis
.
Who
relateth
or
affirmeth
this
?
the
Cardinall
:
and
for
this
M.
Andrews
citeth
in
his
margent
the
Cardinalls
treatise
of
the
beatitude
of
Saynts
,
in
his
bookes
of
Controuersies
,
where
indeed
the
Cardinal
handling
that
question
,
and
laying
downe
the
obiection
of
hereticks
,
hath
amongst
the
rest
a
place
of
S.
Augustine
in
his
books
de
cura
pro
mortuis
,
where
he
affirmeth
that
the
dead
are
not
present
at
mens
affaires
,
neyther
yet
do
know
what
is
done
vpon
earth
;
neuertheles
afterward
the
Cardinal
answering
the
same
obiection
in
the
same
Chapter
,
proueth
out
of
the
very
same
treatise
of
S.
Augustine
(
from
whence
the
obiection
is
taken
)
that
albeit
the
dead
are
not
vsually
present
at
mens
affaires
,
nor
do
naturally
know
what
is
done
vpon
earth
,
yet
they
may
know
it
,
not
only
by
Angells
,
but
also
supernaturally
,
to
wit
,
by
diuine
reuelation
,
yea
and
that
the
holy
Martyrs
,
and
Saynts
are
present
amongst
men
,
per
diuinam
potentiam
,
by
the
diuine
power
.
71.
And
to
shew
this
,
the
Cardinal
alleageth
these
words
out
of
the
said
treatise
of
S.
Augustine
,
Non
ideo
putandum
est
&c.
It
is
not
therfore
to
be
thought
that
euery
one
of
the
dead
may
be
present
at
the
affayrs
of
men
,
because
the
Martyrs
are
present
in
the
healing
,
&
helping
some
men
;
but
rather
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
because
the
dead
cannot
be
present
among
men
,
by
their
owne
nature
,
therfore
the
Martyrs
are
present
at
mens
affayres
by
the
diuine
power
.
Thus
saith
S.
Augustine
:
where
you
see
he
distinguisheth
betwixt
naturall
,
and
supernaturall
meanes
,
and
betwixt
the
glorified
Saynts
of
God
(
for
such
are
the
Martyrs
of
whome
he
speaketh
)
and
other
dead
men
,
granting
that
the
Martyrs
do
that
by
supernaturall
,
&
diuine
meanes
,
which
other
dead
men
cannot
naturally
do
;
and
this
is
the
same
in
effect
that
al
Catholikes
hould
concerning
the
knowledge
that
the
glorified
Saynts
haue
of
things
done
in
earth
,
to
wit
,
that
they
do
not
know
the
same
naturally
,
but
by
supernaturall
meanes
,
whether
they
see
it
in
seeing
the
diuine
essence
,
or
know
it
otherwise
by
reuelation
;
so
as
,
thereby
it
is
manifest
that
M.
Andrewes
hath
notably
abused
both
S.
Augustine
and
the
Cardinall
;
S.
Augustine
,
in
making
him
to
affirme
of
glorified
Saints
,
that
which
he
spak
of
other
dead
men
,
as
if
he
made
no
difference
betweene
the
supernaturall
knowledge
and
power
of
the
one
,
and
the
naturall
of
the
other
,
which
he
euidently
distinguisheth
.
Also
he
abuseth
the
Cardinall
in
taking
hould
of
his
obiection
,
and
dissembling
his
solution
,
which
is
one
of
the
most
grosse
and
palpable
frauds
,
or
rather
fooleries
that
may
be
imagined
in
this
kind
.
72.
Thus
said
I
in
my
Adioynder
:
wherto
M.
Collins
sayth
not
one
word
,
and
therfore
I
remit
it
to
the
readers
Iudgment
,
whether
it
was
not
conuenient
for
my
Lordes
honour
,
that
his
Feed-man
,
Aduocate
,
&
Champion
(
who
saw
him
heere
so
deeply
charged
)
should
haue
dischardged
and
cleared
his
Lorship
of
this
imputation
if
he
could
considering
as
well
the
confidence
which
my
Lord
hath
reposed
in
him
,
as
also
his
Maiestyes
expresse
commaundement
imposed
vpon
him
(
as
he
himselfe
confesseth
)
for
the
repulsing
,
sayth
he
,
of
the
lewd
slaunders
of
a
nameles
Papist
,
and
to
redeeme
the
credit
of
a
renowned
Bishop
:
if
this
therefore
be
a
lewd
slaunder
,
why
doth
not
M.
M.
Collins
repulse
it
(
to
vse
his
owne
phrase
)
&
if
it
be
none
but
a
true
obiection
of
fraud
and
falsity
in
my
Lord
(
as
indeed
it
is
)
why
doth
he
not
labour
at
least
to
redeem
my
Lords
credit
,
either
by
some
colourable
excuse
,
or
some
pretty
fraud
,
or
legier-dumain
,
as
he
is
wont
to
do
?
For
so
at
least
he
should
haue
shewed
his
good
will
,
and
desire
to
serue
my
Lord
,
as
he
is
in
duty
bound
hauing
beene
well
payd
for
his
paynes
,
as
the
report
is
,
which
may
well
be
presumed
to
be
true
,
my
Lords
liberality
and
bounty
considered
;
but
it
seemeth
that
this
fraud
is
so
grosse
,
and
palpable
that
it
passeth
M.
Collins
his
skill
,
either
to
excuse
,
or
colour
it
handsomly
;
and
therfore
he
thought
best
to
smother
it
with
silence
,
as
he
hath
done
diuers
others
heeretofore
,
besides
many
more
,
which
I
could
lay
downe
,
if
I
had
tyme
;
but
I
do
now
make
so
much
hast
to
end
,
that
I
meane
to
add
but
some
few
fraudes
more
concerning
the
Reliques
of
Saints
,
and
the
veneration
,
and
reuerence
due
to
them
;
wherof
I
will
say
somewhat
with
what
breuity
I
may
in
the
ensewing
Chapters
.
A
manifest
discouery
of
M.
Collins
his
fraud
in
corrupting
the
Text
,
and
peruerting
the
Sense
of
the
Adioynder
,
touching
the
adoration
of
holy
Relikes
;
he
belyeth
Gregory
de
Valentia
,
whom
he
vnderstandeth
not
:
He
abuseth
egregiously
S.
Hierome
many
wayes
,
in
belying
him
,
in
clipping
his
text
,
in
peruerting
his
sense
,
and
incalumniating
him
.
Lastly
he
is
proued
to
be
most
ignorant
euen
in
Grammar
.
CHAP.
X.
HAVING
giuen
thee
,
good
Reader
,
in
the
precedent
chapters
some
tast
of
M.
Collins
his
treacherous
dealing
touching
prayer
to
Saints
,
I
wil
giue
in
this
,
some
examples
of
the
like
in
his
answeres
concerning
the
adoration
,
or
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
,
and
for
the
better
discouery
therof
,
I
thinke
best
first
to
say
some
what
(
by
the
way
of
preamble
)
touching
the
word
adoration
,
and
the
controuersy
,
concerning
the
same
,
as
wel
betwixt
the
Cardinall
and
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
as
b●twixt
M.
Collins
and
me
.
1.
To
this
purpose
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
that
as
my
Lord
of
Winchester
admitteth
no
Inuocation
,
but
of
God
only
;
so
he
affirmeth
the
same
of
adoration
pag
.
49.
And
therfore
to
answere
the
Cardinals
obiection
out
of
S
Hieroms
epistle
to
Marcella
(
wherin
S.
Hierome
speaketh
of
the
adoration
of
the
ashes
of
Elizaeus
,
and
Abdias
)
my
Lord
sayth
that
S.
Hierome
did
not
speake
there
properly
,
but
figuratiuely
.
Vpon
which
occasion
I
treated
somewhat
amply
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
371.
num
.
13.
of
the
three
kinds
of
adoration
,
specifyed
in
the
holy
Scripture
;
the
one
due
to
God
alone
,
which
we
call
Latria
,
the
other
due
to
Angells
,
Saints
,
or
holy
men
,
as
to
the
seruants
of
God
,
&
for
the
honor
,
&
loue
of
him
(
which
being
an
act
of
Religion
,
I
called
a
religious
adoration
,
&
is
commonly
called
by
our
Deuins
Dulia
)
the
third
is
a
meere
ciuill
worship
or
reuerence
exhited
to
men
for
some
ciuill
or
temporall
excellency
.
2.
And
of
these
three
kindes
of
adoration
I
alleadged
very
many
examples
and
testimonyes
of
holy
Scripture
,
and
for
the
proofe
of
the
two
later
(
to
wit
,
of
the
religious
,
and
ciuill
adoration
)
I
produced
aboue
twenty
places
,
and
might
haue
done
many
more
,
if
I
had
thought
it
needfull
;
&
then
I
obserued
therupon
pag
.
375.
num
.
16.
that
the
word
adoration
is
to
be
vnderstood
diuersly
,
as
it
is
diuersly
applyed
,
either
to
God
alone
,
or
to
Angels
,
holy
men
and
holy
thinges
,
or
els
to
men
of
dignity
;
and
that
the
same
is
to
be
obserued
in
the
hebrew
word
sachah
,
which
signifyeth
adorare
,
and
is
diuersly
vnderstood
of
ech
of
these
three
kinds
of
adoration
,
according
to
the
different
application
therof
,
in
so
much
that
it
cannot
be
otherwise
distinguished
in
reading
,
but
by
the
circumstances
;
and
for
as
much
as
in
the
corporal
exhibition
of
it
the
same
exteriour
acts
of
submission
,
and
reuerence
are
common
to
all
three
kinds
of
adoration
,
therefore
they
are
diuersifyed
,
and
distinguished
only
by
the
intention
,
and
will
of
him
,
that
doth
performe
them
;
and
finally
I
concluded
,
that
is
is
not
to
be
wondered
,
that
as
well
the
ancient
Fathers
,
as
the
Catholiks
of
these
dayes
,
following
the
custom
,
&
phrase
of
the
holy
Scripturs
,
do
vse
also
the
word
adoration
in
the
same
different
manner
,
and
sense
that
the
Scripture
doth
.
3.
And
albeit
M.
Collins
in
answere
of
this
doth
fondly
cauill
about
religious
adoration
,
yet
he
denyeth
not
the
ciuil
adoration
;
yea
and
sayth
also
pag
360.
lin
.
26.
that
my
Lord
graunteth
it
,
and
that
his
Lordship
denyeth
only
the
sacred
,
or
religious
adoration
;
in
so
much
,
that
he
maketh
the
adoration
,
which
Abraham
,
Lot
,
&
Iosue
vsed
to
Angells
,
to
be
ciuill
adoration
,
most
absurdly
;
seeing
that
there
was
not
therein
any
ciuill
or
temporall
respect
(
which
cannot
be
vnderstood
to
exceed
the
bounds
of
nature
)
the
motiue
of
their
adoration
being
a
supernaturall
excellency
,
including
also
a
sanctity
and
holynes
,
which
is
euident
in
the
example
of
Iosues
adoration
of
the
Angell
,
who
besides
his
falling
prostrate
vpon
the
ground
before
the
Angell
,
was
commanded
by
him
to
do
more
reuerence
,
to
wit
,
to
put
off
his
shooes
,
because
the
place
where
he
stood
was
holy
,
which
place
(
as
I
sayd
in
my
Adioynder
)
was
not
otherwayes
holy
,
but
in
respect
of
the
Angels
presence
,
so
as
this
adoration
,
hauing
a
supernatural
respect
,
and
consideration
(
that
is
to
say
,
the
sanctity
of
an
Angell
,
&
the
place
)
cannot
be
called
ciuill
without
great
absurdity
.
4.
The
like
is
to
be
sayd
of
the
examples
which
I
produced
also
in
my
Adioynder
of
the
adoration
exhibited
by
Abdias
to
Elias
;
and
of
the
children
of
the
Prophets
to
Elizaeus
,
of
whome
I
sayd
thus
,
pag
.
372.
Al●hough
Abdias
was
in
temporall
dignity
〈◇〉
greater
man
,
and
more
worthy
then
Elias
the
Prophet
,
yet
he
fell
vpon
his
face
be●ore
Elias
(
3.
Reg
.
18.
)
acknowledging
●hereby
the
spirituall
excellency
of
Gods
Prophet
,
and
did
therein
an
act
of
religion
,
●s
also
the
children
of
the
Prophets
did
the
●he
like
to
Elizaeus
,
when
they
perceaued
by
his
miraculous
passage
euer
the
Riuer
,
that
God
had
giuen
him
the
spirit
of
Elias
,
ado●auerunt
eum
,
sayth
the
Scripture
,
proni
in
ter●am
,
they
adored
him
falling
flat
vpon
the
●round
4.
Reg
.
2.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Ad●oynder
,
expresly
specifying
a
supernatural
●espect
,
and
motiue
of
this
adoration
,
which
●herfore
cannot
possibly
be
ciuill
;
&
this
I
●aue
thought
good
to
note
by
the
way
,
the
●ather
to
shew
you
by
this
occasion
,
a
fine
●iece
of
legier-du-main
in
M.
Collins
his
an●were
to
these
two
examples
of
Abdias
,
and
●he
children
of
the
Prophets
.
For
thus
he
●ayth
of
the
first
pag
.
354.
lin
.
12.
5.
Abdias
,
you
say
,
was
a
man
in
temporall
●ignity
,
far
greater
then
Elias
,
and
yet
Abdias
fell
vpon
his
face
before
him
;
and
therin
did
an
act
of
religion
to
Elias
.
Belieue
it
who
list
.
So
he
.
Leauing
out
some
wordes
of
my
Text
,
vpon
the
which
I
inferred
that
he
did
an
act
of
Religion
.
For
I
sayd
thus
of
Abdias
;
he
fell
vpon
his
face
before
Elias
,
acknowledging
thereby
,
the
spirituall
excellency
,
and
sanctity
of
Gods
Prophet
,
and
therein
did
an
act
of
Religion
;
whereas
M.
Collins
maketh
me
say
only
,
that
Abdias
did
an
act
of
Religion
,
because
he
fell
vpon
his
face
before
him
,
without
specifying
the
spirituall
excellency
,
and
sanctity
of
the
Prophet
,
wh●ch
being
a
supernatural
guift
of
God
doth
not
import
any
temporall
,
or
ciuill
consideration
,
but
a
religious
respect
.
6.
The
like
cosenage
he
also
vseth
i●
the
other
example
,
saying
thus
:
Likewise
the
children
of
the
Prophets
worshipt
Elizaeus
wit●
religious
adoration
,
because
they
saw
him
passe
th●
riuer
by
miracle
,
a
thing
which
euery
damned
wretch
might
haue
done
,
to
haue
wrough●
a
miracle
,
and
yet
this
must
chalenge
religious
adoration
.
So
he
.
Concealing
the
reason
which
I
gaue
,
why
the
children
o●
the
Prophets
adored
Elizaeus
,
which
was
because
they
perceaued
by
his
miraculous
passage
〈◇〉
the
riuer
,
that
God
had
giuen
him
the
spirit
of
Eli●●
so
that
the
bare
miracle
was
not
the
cau●●
why
they
adored
him
,
but
because
God
had
●iuen
him
Elias
his
spirit
,
and
made
him
●is
Prophet
,
which
spirituall
,
and
super●aturall
excellency
surmounted
all
ciuill
●espects
,
and
belonged
to
religion
,
&
ther●ore
was
acknowledged
by
them
,
with
a
●eligious
adoration
.
7.
And
to
these
I
may
yet
add
ano●her
like
fraudulent
deuise
of
his
in
his
an●were
to
the
reason
which
I
giue
in
my
●dioynder
why
the
adoration
of
Saints
,
and
●oly
men
is
religious
;
for
wheras
I
sayd
in
●he
14.
Paragraph
(
which
he
citeth
pag
.
●54
.
)
that
such
adoration
is
an
act
of
reli●ion
,
because
it
is
exhibited
to
them
,
as
●o
the
seruants
of
God
,
and
for
the
honour
and
loue
●f
him
;
M.
Collins
,
answereth
thus
:
Lastly
,
●ayth
he
,
to
your
quiddity
,
that
the
worship
of
●aints
is
religious
worship
,
because
yielded
to
Saints
●or
their
religious
sake
,
I
deny
your
reason
.
As
well
might
you
say
,
that
the
worshipping
●f
a
wodden
Image
is
a
blockish
worship
,
●ecause
done
to
a
blocke
&c.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
.
Wherein
you
see
that
the
reason
which
he
giueth
(
and
sayth
it
is
myne
)
why
the
worship
of
Saintes
is
a
religious
worship
,
is
,
because
it
is
yeilded
to
them
for
their
Religious
sake
,
as
though
it
had
no
further
●elation
but
to
them
,
whereas
I
speake
not
a
word
of
their
religion
,
and
do
expresly
referre
the
worship
of
the
Saints
,
to
the
honour
of
God
,
whose
seruants
they
are
;
for
my
wordes
are
(
as
you
haue
seene
before
)
that
the
second
kind
of
adoration
is
an
act
of
Religion
,
exhibited
to
Angells
,
Saints
,
or
holy
men
,
as
to
the
seruants
of
God
,
and
for
the
honour
,
and
loue
of
him
;
so
as
the
adoration
,
or
worship
relieth
not
in
them
,
but
hath
a
speciall
relation
to
Almighty
God
,
being
ye●lded
to
them
for
his
sake
,
because
they
are
his
seruants
,
and
to
the
end
to
honour
him
in
them
,
which
therefore
must
needes
be
a
religious
act
;
wherby
it
is
euident
not
only
that
he
hath
falsifyed
my
text
(
referring
the
worship
of
the
Saints
to
the
Religion
in
them
)
but
also
hath
argued
most
idly
vpon
his
owne
false
ground
,
saying
that
I
might
as
wel
say
that
the
worshiping
of
a
blockish
Image
is
blockish
worship
,
because
done
to
a
Blocke
.
8.
For
indeed
if
the
worship
should
haue
no
further
relation
,
thē
to
the
wood
,
or
to
the
Image
as
it
is
wood
,
it
were
a
woodden
worship
,
bu●
the
worsh●p
being
don
to
the
Image
o●
Christ
,
or
of
a
Saint
,
to
honor
Christ
,
or
the
Saint
therein
,
the
worship
is
religious
;
for
otherwayes
M.
Collins
must
con●esse
,
that
he
hath
done
in
his
dayes
wodden
or
blockish
worship
,
when
he
hath
stood
bare
in
the
presence
Chamber
before
the
Kings
Chaire
made
of
wood
.
And
I
doubt
not
,
but
he
will
say
,
that
he
hath
honoured
the
King
in
his
Chayre
,
and
not
the
wood
wherof
it
was
made
;
and
therfore
as
this
may
be
called
ciuill
worshippe
,
because
it
is
yeilded
for
a
ciuil
respect
(
that
is
to
say
to
honour
the
King
)
so
also
,
the
other
which
is
yeilded
to
an
image
,
or
a
Saint
,
for
the
honour
of
God
,
may
well
be
called
religious
worship
,
because
all
religious
acts
are
of
their
nature
referred
to
the
honor
of
God
.
So
as
you
see
M.
Collins
hath
made
a
very
blockish
and
woodden
argument
,
worthy
of
his
woodden
wit
,
besides
his
falsity
,
as
well
in
corrupting
my
Text
,
as
in
peruerting
my
sense
.
9.
No
lesse
vayne
and
idle
,
is
the
instruction
which
he
taketh
vpon
him
to
giue
me
presently
after
,
saying
:
Rather
say
(
it
is
religious
worship
)
because
it
springeth
from
the
vertue
of
religion
in
the
mind
of
him
that
yeildeth
it
as
the
originall
of
his
act
;
and
yet
imperant
only
,
not
elicient
,
dirigent
,
not
exequent
,
as
your
Schoole
men
loue
to
speake
.
Thus
sayth
he
,
flourishing
in
his
Schoole-tearmes
,
as
though
he
could
play
the
schoole-mā
if
he
list
,
when
the
poore
fellow
prattles
like
a
Parrat
,
not
vnderstanding
what
he
sayth
,
as
you
shall
see
after
a
while
by
the
good
vse
he
maketh
of
Gregorius
de
Valentia
his
doctrine
against
me
,
euen
for
this
poynt
.
But
for
the
present
I
wish
it
to
be
noted
that
had
he
not
falsifyed
my
words
,
he
should
haue
had
no
cause
,
nor
colour
to
tell
me
that
Religious
worship
springeth
from
the
vertue
of
Religion
in
the
mynd
of
the
doer
,
for
I
say
nothing
at
all
to
the
contrary
,
as
you
may
see
euidently
by
my
owne
words
cyted
by
me
,
a
little
before
out
of
my
Adioynder
,
so
as
he
is
no
lesse
vayne
,
and
idle
,
then
false
almost
in
euery
thing
.
10.
Moreouer
as
friuolous
,
vayne
,
yea
and
false
is
that
which
he
affirmeth
of
Valentia
pag
.
●60
.
Who
,
he
sayth
,
doth
flatly
deny
that
the
worship
of
Saints
is
properly
religious
worship
,
which
is
properly
,
and
flatly
a
lye
;
for
Valentia
doth
not
deny
,
that
it
is
religious
worship
propriè
,
properly
,
but
proximè
,
or
immediatè
immediatly
,
as
it
appeareth
by
3.
or
4.
places
which
M.
Collins
himself
cyteth
out
of
him
;
as
when
he
sayth
of
the
proper
act
of
religion
,
Actus
propriùs
virtutis
religionis
diuinam
gloriam
spectat
proximè
,
&
idcirco
ad
Deum
proximè
pertinet
,
the
proper
act
of
the
vertue
of
religion
doth
respect
immediatly
the
diuine
glory
,
and
therefore
it
doth
belong
to
God
immediatly
;
and
then
he
addeth
concerning
the
veneration
of
Saints
;
Actio
verò
qua
veneramur
sanctos
&c
The
action
whereby
we
do
worship
Saints
,
hath
not
any
ether
imediate
scope
,
or
end
,
but
the
esteeme
,
or
respect
which
is
conuenient
,
and
fit
to
be
giuen
to
an
excellent
Creature
,
and
this
esteeme
say●h
Valentia
is
procured
for
Saints
immediatly
not
by
religion
,
but
by
a
peculiar
obseruance
:
for
so
he
tearmeth
that
kind
of
honour
,
or
worship
,
which
we
giue
to
Saints
,
and
is
(
as
he
sayth
)
really
,
&
alltogeather
distinct
from
Religion
.
11.
And
this
difference
,
and
distinction
,
he
sayth
,
the
Catholike
Doctours
do
signify
,
and
expresse
by
the
words
Latria
&
Dulia
;
applying
Latria
to
the
worship
of
God
,
and
Dulia
to
the
worship
of
Saints
,
&
finally
he
concludeth
(
as
M.
Collins
himselfe
obserueth
)
Exposuimus
quemadmodum
honor
Sanctis
,
non
per
virtutem
religionis
proximè
,
sed
per
aliam
longe
diuersam
exhibeatur
,
we
haue
shewed
now
honour
is
giuen
to
Saints
not
immediatly
by
the
vertue
of
Religion
,
but
by
another
vertue
altogeather
different
.
So
he
.
Which
M.
Collins
vrgeth
hard
against
me
as
directly
impugning
my
assertion
of
a
religious
worship
due
to
Saints
,
because
Valentia
teacheth
that
the
honor
due
to
Saints
proceedeth
from
a
vertue
altogeather
different
from
Religion
.
12.
But
I
must
desire
M.
Collins
by
his
leaue
to
note
,
that
Valentia
doth
not
deny
that
honour
is
exhibited
to
Saints
by
religion
,
either
properly
or
at
all
,
but
that
it
is
not
giuen
to
them
immediatly
by
religion
,
because
religion
doth
respect
the
honour
of
God
immediatly
,
and
doth
cause
the
honour
of
Saints
remotè
or
mediatè
,
that
is
to
say
,
by
the
meanes
of
that
kind
of
obseruancy
,
which
we
commonly
call
dulia
,
&
is
moued
by
the
vertue
of
Religion
imperatiue
,
whereupon
it
followeth
that
the
action
resulting
thereon
,
is
a
religious
action
and
this
M.
Collins
himself
doth
plainly
acknowledge
:
for
hauing
tould
me
the
distinction
of
imperant
,
elicient
,
dirigent
and
exequent
,
he
addeth
,
that
many
acts
not
done
to
Religious
persons
,
or
done
to
them
,
not
for
their
religious
sakes
,
are
neuerthelesse
accounted
religious
actions
,
because
they
proceed
from
the
vertue
of
religion
in
the
doers
.
13.
And
either
to
perswade
or
to
conuince
me
in
this
point
,
he
goeth
forward
thus
:
As
euen
your
owne
man
acknowledgeth
Gregory
de
Valentia
Tom
.
3.
disput
.
6.
quaest.
11.
&c.
denying
flatly
that
the
worship
of
Saints
is
properly
,
or
immediatly
religious
worship
,
yet
he
addes
in
this
wise
,
quamquam
non
est
negandum
&c.
though
it
is
not
to
be
denyed
,
that
we
may
be
moued
,
as
to
other
offices
of
sundry
vertues
,
so
〈◇〉
yeild
the
Saints
the
honour
of
obseruancy
,
out
of
●e
vertue
of
religion
towardes
God
in
our
hartes
.
Thus
farre
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
Valentia
his
words
,
and
then
glosseth
them
thus
:
So
as
●eth
he
would
haue
Religion
to
be
only
towards
God
,
●nd
yet
an
exciter
,
or
setter
on
of
our
reuerence
to
●aints
,
per
modum
imperantis
,
as
I
sayd
be●●re
.
So
he
:
To
proue
against
me
,
euen
●ut
of
Valentia
himselfe
,
that
I
should
haue
●rawn
the
worship
of
Saints
from
the
ver●ue
of
Religion
,
in
the
mind
of
him
,
that
●oth
exhibite
it
,
and
not
to
haue
made
the
●use
therof
to
be
the
religion
of
the
Saint
,
●r
holy
man
that
is
worshipped
.
14.
But
this
you
see
is
nothing
els
,
but
vayne
flourish
to
shew
his
skil
in
schoole
●arning
,
without
any
other
ground
or
●ause
then
his
owne
falsification
,
as
well
of
●y
Text
,
as
of
the
sense
therof
.
And
as
for
●alentia
his
doctrine
in
this
point
,
it
is
most
●ue
,
and
confirmeth
my
Assertion
,
that
the
●orship
done
to
Saints
is
religious
wor●●ip
,
seeing
that
the
power
of
religion
is
●●ch
,
that
it
commandeth
the
actions
of
all
●ther
vertues
,
to
the
glory
,
and
honour
of
●od
,
wherby
they
become
Religious
acti●ns
.
In
which
respect
S.
Iames
in
his
Ep
c
.
1.
●yth
of
a
worke
of
Charity
,
or
mercy
,
that
it
is
religion
:
Religio
munda
(
sayth
he
)
&
●●maculata
apud
Deum
,
&
Patrem
haec
est
,
visitare
p●pillos
,
&
viduas
in
tribulatione
corum
&c.
This
i●
a
cleane
&
immaculate
religion
with
Go●
and
the
Father
,
to
visit
pupills
,
and
widdowes
in
their
tribulations
;
thus
sayth
S.
Iames
,
calling
this
worke
of
charity
religi●●
,
because
it
is
a
religious
action
,
proceeding
from
the
vertue
of
religion
imperatiuè
,
and
done
for
Gods
honour
.
15.
And
this
may
truly
be
sayd
not
only
of
all
the
actions
of
other
vertues
,
but
also
of
such
actions
as
are
of
their
owne
nature
indifferent
which
religion
commandeth
,
as
occasion
serueth
,
for
Gods
glory
,
and
maketh
them
both
good
,
yea
and
religious
actions
,
because
(
as
M.
Collins
sayth
)
they
proceed
from
the
vertue
of
religio●
in
the
doers
,
and
are
referred
to
Gods
honour
,
and
seruice
.
16.
This
then
being
true
concerning
as
well
indifferent
,
as
vertuous
actions
,
much
more
it
is
to
be
granted
of
such
actions
,
as
haue
a
more
particuler
relation
to
religion
or
connexion
therewith
,
by
reason
of
some
particuler
respect
or
consideration
in
the
obiect
,
as
it
is
euident
in
the
worship
done
for
Gods
honour
to
Saints
,
or
holy
men
,
who
being
made
(
as
the
Scripture
sayth
)
consortes
diuinae
naturae
2.
Pet
.
1.
●artakers
of
the
diuine
nature
,
haue
in
them
a
●upernaturall
excellency
,
which
deserueth
a
supernaturall
honour
or
worship
(
I
meane
a
greater
honour
then
any
respect
of
ciuility
,
or
nature
can
challenge
)
and
therfore
I
say
,
that
such
honour
springing
originally
from
the
vertue
of
religion
in
them
that
yeild
it
,
and
being
exhibited
to
Saints
,
as
hauing
the
foresayd
participation
of
diuine
excellency
,
cannot
be
ciuill
,
but
must
needes
be
religious
.
And
this
as
I
haue
sayd
,
is
not
d●nyed
by
Valentia
,
who
affirmeth
only
that
this
honour
it
not
exhibited
to
Saints
by
the
vertue
of
Religion
proximè
,
immediatly
,
but
imperatiuè
,
by
the
interuention
of
a
different
vertue
called
dulia
,
which
doth
immediatly
respect
the
honour
,
and
worship
due
to
Saints
,
and
is
commanded
by
the
vertue
of
religion
,
so
much
the
more
properly
,
by
how
much
more
it
is
subordinate
thereto
,
and
hath
more
Analogy
,
and
proportion
with
it
,
then
other
vertues
haue
.
17.
But
for
the
better
vnderstanding
of
Valentia
,
it
is
to
be
considered
,
that
the
great
difference
which
he
affirmeth
to
be
betwixt
the
vertues
of
dulia
and
of
religion
,
consisteth
in
this
,
that
dulia
respecteth
only
the
excellency
of
the
Saint
,
resting
therein
without
further
relation
to
the
participation
of
the
diuine
excellency
by
me
before
mentioned
;
for
so
indeed
,
it
is
wholy
distinct
,
and
different
from
the
vertue
of
religion
,
which
doth
not
rest
in
any
creature
,
but
doth
immediatly
respect
the
honour
due
to
God
;
but
if
we
consider
the
honour
of
the
Saint
,
as
not
resting
in
him
,
but
as
hauing
a
further
relation
to
the
diuine
excellency
,
which
the
Saint
doth
participate
:
so
there
is
no
need
to
distinguish
the
sayd
honour
from
religion
,
euen
according
to
Valentia
his
grounds
,
who
also
is
so
farre
from
condemning
the
other
opinion
that
he
rather
defendeth
it
against
Caluin
,
to
be
no
way
derogatory
to
Gods
glory
,
as
it
appeareth
by
that
which
M.
Collins
noteth
very
absurdly
for
a
contradiction
in
Valentia
,
who
sayth
he
seeth
not
how
Gods
honour
is
any
way
impayred
(
as
Caluin
sayth
it
is
)
if
we
giue
one
honour
to
God
,
and
another
to
Saints
,
by
one
and
the
selfe
same
vertue
of
religion
;
for
as
,
sayth
he
,
we
loue
God
,
with
the
selfe
same
vertue
of
Charity
,
with
the
which
we
loue
our
Neighbour
in
his
degree
(
without
any
iniury
to
the
diuine
Maiesty
:
)
so
also
we
may
without
any
iniury
to
God
,
giue
him
his
owne
honour
intierely
,
and
to
Saints
theirs
,
eue●
by
one
,
and
the
same
vertue
of
Religion
.
18.
Thus
sayth
Valentia
;
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
whereas
there
is
a
question
amongst
the
Deuines
,
whether
the
honour
that
is
giuen
to
God
,
and
to
his
Saints
,
proceedeth
from
one
,
&
the
selfe
same
vertue
of
Religion
(
as
some
hould
it
doth
)
or
from
two
different
vertues
(
which
is
Valentia
his
opinion
)
there
is
no
preiudice
,
or
iniury
done
to
Gods
honour
either
way
;
because
those
who
hould
it
to
be
one
,
and
the
same
vertue
of
religion
,
which
giueth
honour
to
both
,
do
not
conceaue
that
the
honour
giuen
to
the
Saint
resteth
in
him
,
but
that
it
hath
relation
,
&
passeth
to
that
diuine
excellency
,
which
the
Saint
participateth
,
and
is
immediatly
respected
by
religion
;
wheras
Valentia
,
and
those
which
hould
,
that
they
are
two
different
vertues
(
whereby
God
,
and
his
Saints
are
honoured
)
conceaue
the
honour
giuen
to
the
saints
to
rest
in
a
certaine
degree
of
supernaturall
excellency
of
the
Saint
,
without
further
relation
to
the
excellency
of
God
,
and
that
the
vertue
which
giueth
the
sayd
honour
to
the
Saint
respecteth
his
excellency
proximè
and
elicitiuè
;
wheras
the
vertue
of
Religion
respecteth
it
only
imperatiuè
and
mediatè
(
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
)
that
is
to
say
,
b●
the
interuention
of
this
other
vertue
of
Dulia
,
or
obseruancy
(
as
he
calleth
it
)
which
the
vertue
of
Religion
commandeth
and
vseth
to
Gods
honour
,
as
it
might
do
an
act
of
charity
,
Piety
,
Iustice
,
Temperance
,
or
any
other
vertue
.
19.
And
heereby
it
appeareth
,
that
there
is
no
contradiction
in
Valentia
either
to
himself
(
as
M.
Collins
absurdly
imagineth
)
or
yet
to
the
other
opinion
of
the
Deuines
,
for
as
much
as
concerneth
Gods
honor
(
which
Caluin
falsly
saith
is
impayred
therby
)
&
much
lesse
doth
Valentia
deny
or
contradict
my
assertion
of
religious
worship
done
to
Saints
;
which
is
true
according
to
both
opinions
;
for
according
to
Valentia
doctrine
(
take
it
how
you
will
)
the
honor
done
to
the
Saint
is
religious
,
imperatiuè
at
least
and
mediatè
,
and
according
to
the
other
opinion
clicitiuè
and
proximè
;
yea
and
if
we
vnderstand
all
with
formall
relation
to
the
diuin
excellency
participated
by
the
Saint
(
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
)
so
the
honour
done
to
the
Saint
may
be
religious
also
proximè
and
elicitiuè
in
all
opinions
.
And
thus
thou
seest
good
Reader
,
how
little
M.
Collins
hath
gayned
by
playing
the
Schooleman
,
yea
,
and
how
notably
he
hath
played
the
foole
,
bewraying
his
owne
ignorance
and
folly
,
aswell
in
alleadging
and
vrging
Valentia
against
me
,
when
he
maketh
for
me
,
a●
also
in
controling
,
and
impugning
him
;
seeing
it
is
euident
that
the
silly
fel●ow
doth
not
vnderstand
him
,
&
doth
notably
abuse
vs
both
.
20.
I
haue
thought
it
not
amisse
,
good
Reader
,
to
say
thus
much
by
the
way
of
a
preamble
to
the
discouery
of
his
fraudulent
answers
to
my
Adioynder
,
concerning
the
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
;
partly
to
explicate
thereby
the
state
of
the
question
betwixt
vs
,
and
partly
to
lay
open
vnto
you
diuers
petty
fraudes
of
his
,
which
as
you
haue
seene
,
haue
occurred
by
the
way
,
hauing
forborne
not
only
to
display
many
solemne
fooleryes
(
wher
with
his
discourse
about
this
matter
is
enterlaced
)
but
also
to
answere
his
obiections
out
of
some
of
the
Fathers
,
as
wel
not
to
passe
my
prescribed
limits
of
medling
only
with
his
frauds
,
as
also
to
auoyd
prolixity
which
hath
euer
been
my
special
desire
from
the
beginning
,
albeit
his
extrauagant
impertinencyes
haue
extorted
from
me
a
farre
larger
reply
,
then
at
first
I
determyned
.
21.
Now
then
to
come
to
the
matter
,
you
may
remember
,
that
I
signifyed
in
the
beginning
of
this
Chapter
,
how
my
Lord
of
Winchester
answereth
a
place
alleaged
by
the
Cardinall
out
of
S.
Hierome
to
Marcella
,
touching
the
adoration
of
the
ashes
of
S.
Iohn
Baptist
,
Elizaeus
,
and
Abdias
,
saying
that
S.
Hierome
doth
not
vse
the
word
adoration
in
that
place
properly
,
but
figuratiuely
;
wherof
he
giueth
two
reasons
,
the
one
,
because
S.
Hierome
sayth
also
there
that
Marcella
might
puluerem
lingere
,
licke
the
dust
,
Quare
vt
hoc
,
ita
&
illud
non
propriè
,
sed
figuratiuè
,
wherefore
,
as
this
,
so
also
that
,
is
not
properly
spoken
,
but
figuratiuely
.
And
albeit
I
confuted
this
at
large
,
yet
because
the
matter
it selfe
is
not
of
much
importance
,
I
omit
the
examination
of
what
M.
Collins
answereth
therto
,
except
only
of
one
point
wherin
he
giueth
vs
a
tast
of
his
great
skill
in
Grammer
,
which
also
I
thinke
good
to
differre
vntill
I
haue
discouered
his
notable
fraud
in
answering
my
reply
to
my
Lords
second
reason
,
and
by
occasion
thereof
lay
downe
very
important
matter
for
the
tryall
of
the
truth
in
this
Controuersy
.
Thus
then
I
said
in
my
Adioynder
pag
.
376.
num
.
21.
22.
His
second
reason
why
adorare
is
taken
figuratiuely
in
that
place
of
S.
Hierome
is
this
.
Vbi
verò
,
saith
he
,
propriè
ei
loquendum
erat
&c.
For
when
S.
Hierome
was
to
speake
properly
,
to
wit
,
to
Vigilantius
his
aduersary
(
who
pressed
him
strictly
,
and
would
not
suffer
him
to
speake
at
large
)
then
he
denyeth
it
earnestly
,
saying
,
Nos
autem
,
non
dico
Martyrum
reliquias
&c.
We
do
not
worship
and
adore
(
I
do
not
say
)
the
Reliques
of
Martyrs
,
but
neyther
the
Sunne
nor
the
Moone
,
nor
the
Angells
,
nor
the
Cherubim
,
nor
the
Seraphim
.
Thus
saith
M.
Andrewes
out
of
S.
Hierome
,
ending
his
citation
there
;
because
that
which
followeth
would
marre
all
his
market
,
as
you
shall
see
after
a
while
,
&
in
the
meane
tyme
he
concludeth
thus
,
What
I
pray
you
will
the
Card●nall
say
here
,
seeing
that
the
old
Fathers
of
the
Church
do
crie
out
,
we
do
not
adore
the
reliques
of
Martyrs
?
heere
the
Cardinall
is
held
so
fast
that
he
cannot
slip
away
.
Thus
triumpheth
M.
Andrews
before
the
victory
,
or
rather
hauing
lost
the
victory
,
being
himselfe
a
Captiue
,
and
hauing
no
other
remedy
left
him
,
but
to
brag
and
face
out
the
matter
.
23.
For
thou
shalt
vnderstand
good
Reader
,
that
S.
Hierome
heere
speaketh
(
as
the
Logicians
say
,
ad
hominem
,
that
is
to
say
according
to
the
sense
and
meaning
of
his
aduersary
Vigilantius
(
one
of
M.
Andrews
his
worthy
progenitours
)
who
impugning
the
adoration
of
reliques
in
the
same
sense
that
that
M.
Andrewes
doth
,
held
it
for
no
other
then
Idolatry
,
as
S.
Hierome
testifieth
in
the
same
Epistle
to
Riparius
,
which
M.
Andrews
alleageth
.
Ais
,
saith
S.
Hierome
,
Vigilantius
&c.
You
say
,
that
Vigilantius
(
as
we
may
say
M.
Andrews
)
openeth
againe
his
stinking
mouth
,
and
casteth
forth
a
most
filthy
sauour
against
the
Reliques
of
holy
Martyrs
,
and
calleth
vs
,
who
reuerence
them
,
and
worship
the
bones
of
the
dead
,
Cinerarios
,
&
Idolatras
,
worshipers
of
Ashes
,
&
Idolators
.
So
he
.
And
in
his
tract
.
against
Vigilantius
himself
,
he
setteth
downe
Vigilantius
his
owne
words
thus
:
Quid
necesse
est
&c.
What
need
hast
thou
not
only
to
honour
with
so
great
honour
,
but
also
to
adore
that
(
I
knowe
not
what
)
which
thou
worshipest
,
carrying
it
in
a
litle
vessell
from
place
to
place
,
and
why
doest
thou
kisse
and
adore
dust
lapt
in
a
linnen
cloth
?
And
againe
a
litle
after
,
We
see
you
,
according
to
the
custome
of
the
Gentils
&c.
euery
where
kisse
and
adore
I
knowe
not
what
little
dust
carried
in
a
litle
vessell
,
&
lapt
in
a
precious
linnen
cloth
.
Thus
wrote
Vigilantius
.
24.
Whereby
you
see
how
he
charged
the
Catholicks
of
those
daies
with
flat
Idolatry
,
for
worshipping
,
or
adoring
the
Reliques
of
Saynts
,
taking
adoration
for
worship
due
to
God
alone
,
in
which
respect
he
calleth
the
Catholiks
Idolators
.
And
therefore
S.
Hierome
answering
him
in
the
same
sense
,
saith
that
which
M.
Andrews
alleadgeth
,
to
wit
,
Non
adoramus
reliquias
Martyrum
&c.
We
do
not
adore
the
reliques
of
Martyrs
(
that
is
to
say
,
we
do
not
giue
diuine
honor
to
the
reliques
of
Martyrs
,
committing
Idolatry
as
Vigilantius
chargeth
vs
:
)
but
,
honoramus
(
saith
he
presently
afterwards
)
reliquias
Martyrum
,
vt
eum
cuius
sunt
Martyres
adoremus
&c.
We
honor
the
Religues
of
Martyrs
,
that
we
may
adore
(
or
yield
diuine
honor
to
)
him
whose
Martyres
they
are
.
Honoramus
seruos
&c.
We
honour
the
seruants
,
to
the
end
that
their
honor
may
redound
to
the
honour
of
their
Lord
,
who
said
,
He
which
receiueth
you
receiueth
me
.
Thus
saith
S.
Hierome
;
which
M.
Andrews
thought
good
to
dissemble
,
as
if
he
had
not
seene
it
,
for
that
it
fully
explicateth
the
state
of
the
question
betwixt
S.
Hierome
and
Vigilantius
(
as
also
betwixt
Maister
Andrews
and
vs
)
and
cleareth
all
the
matter
.
For
who
seeth
not
heere
that
albeit
S.
Hierome
denyeth
the
adoration
of
Reliques
in
the
sense
that
Vigilantius
obiected
it
,
as
we
also
doe
(
to
wit
as
signifying
a
diuine
honour
)
yet
he
approueth
and
teacheth
it
in
the
sense
of
Catholiques
,
that
is
,
as
adoration
signifieth
a
veneration
and
worship
done
to
Saints
,
for
the
honour
of
God
who
is
honoured
and
glorified
thereby
.
25.
To
which
purpose
two
things
are
to
be
noted
in
this
matter
,
the
one
,
that
wheras
Vigilantius
chargeth
the
Catholicks
to
adore
&
kisse
euery
where
the
Reliques
of
Martyrs
,
he
shewed
sufficiently
,
that
the
custome
of
the
faithfull
was
at
that
tyme
to
do
corporall
reuerence
thereto
,
not
only
by
kissing
them
,
but
also
by
inclyning
or
bowing
the
body
,
which
the
word
adoration
signifieth
,
and
S.
Hierome
denyeth
not
,
though
he
denyeth
the
inference
of
Idolatry
,
that
Vigilantius
made
thereon
.
26.
The
other
is
,
that
as
Vigilantius
did
not
herein
reproue
the
particuler
custome
of
some
particuler
men
,
but
the
pactice
of
whole
Church
at
that
tyme
;
so
also
S
Hierome
did
not
impugne
him
only
with
priuate
reasons
and
arguments
of
his
owne
,
but
also
with
publique
examples
,
as
of
the
publick
translation
of
the
holy
Reliques
of
S.
Andrew
,
S.
Luke
,
and
S.
Timothy
●o
Constantinople
by
Constantine
the
Emperour
,
apud
quas
,
saith
he
,
Daemones
rugiunt
&c.
at
which
reliques
Diuells
do
roare
,
and
the
inhabitors
and
possessors
of
Vigilantius
do
confesse
that
they
seele
their
presence
.
So
he
,
And
then
produceth
also
another
example
that
had
passed
not
long
before
of
a
most
solemne
translation
of
the
Reliques
of
Samuel
the
Prophet
from
Iudaea
●o
Chalcedon
in
Thracia
,
which
were
sump●uously
and
triumphantly
carryed
by
Bi●hops
in
a
goulden
vessell
,
and
met
,
recei●ed
,
and
accompanied
by
the
people
of
al
●he
Churches
by
the
way
(
in
so
much
that
●here
were
,
saith
S.
Hierome
,
continuall
●warmes
of
people
euen
from
Palestina
to
Chalcedon
,
sounding
forth
the
praise
of
Christ
with
one
voice
all
a
long
as
they
went
:
)
whereupon
he
asketh
Vigilantius
,
whether
●e
tooke
Arcadius
the
Emperour
(
who
cau●ed
this
to
be
done
)
and
all
the
Bishops
which
caried
these
reliques
,
and
all
the
mul●itude
of
people
which
accompanied
them
●or
sacrilegious
persons
and
fooles
;
and
finally
concludeth
,
deryding
his
folly
,
thus
:
Viz
.
●aith
he
,
adorabant
Samuelem
,
non
Christum
,
●uius
Samuel
&
Leuita
&
Propheta
fuit
.
Belike
●hey
adored
Samuel
,
&
not
Christ
,
whose
Leuite
&
Prophet
Samuel
was
.
This
saith
S.
Hierome
,
shewing
the
absurdity
of
Vigilantius
,
who
did
●hinke
that
Christ
was
not
adored
in
al
this
,
but
only
Samuel
.
Whereas
all
the
reuerence
,
honor
,
and
adoration
vsed
by
those
Bishops
,
and
people
to
the
Reliques
of
Samuel
,
was
indeed
done
to
Christ
,
because
(
as
S.
Hierome
said
before
)
seruorum
hon●s
redundat
ad
Dominum
,
The
honor
of
the
seruants
redoundeth
to
their
Lord
.
27.
So
that
S.
Hierome
doth
not
deny
〈◇〉
that
holy
reliques
may
be
adored
in
any
other
sense
,
then
as
M.
Andrews
(
following
his
progenitor
Vigilantius
)
will
needs
vnderstand
the
word
adoration
,
that
is
,
for
a
diuine
Cult
,
and
worship
;
in
which
sense
neyther
S.
Hierome
nor
the
Catholiks
in
his
tyme
,
nor
we
now
do
vse
,
or
take
it
,
when
it
is
applied
to
holy
things
,
but
only
for
a
deuout
&
religious
veneration
,
as
S.
Hirome
himselfe
doth
also
vse
it
,
not
only
in
the
place
before
cited
by
the
Cardinall
(
touching
the
adoration
of
the
ashes
of
S
Iohn
,
and
other
Prophets
)
but
also
when
he
said
of
himselfe
,
Praesepe
Domini
&
incunabulae
adoraui
.
I
adored
the
manger
,
and
cra●le
of
Christ
.
And
againe
expounding
that
verse
of
the
Psalme
,
adorate
scabellum
pedum
eius
,
adore
the
Foot-stoole
of
his
feet
,
he
taketh
the
Foot-stoole
to
be
the
Crosse
,
giuing
therby
to
vnderstand
that
the
Crosse
is
to
be
adored
.
And
therefore
I
leaue
it
to
thee
,
good
Reader
,
to
iudge
what
a
vaine
vaunt
it
was
of
M.
Andrews
to
sa●
v●on
the
former
place
of
S.
Hieroms
,
Tenetur
his
Cardinalis
vt
elabi
non
poffit
:
heere
the
Cardinall
is
taken
,
and
held
so
fast
,
that
he
cannot
slip
away
.
Whereas
you
see
,
that
the
whole
place
and
the
circumstance
,
being
laied
downe
with
the
state
of
the
question
betwixt
Vigilantius
,
&
S.
Hierome
(
all
which
he
craftily
concealed
)
he
is
caught
himself
like
a
mouse
in
a
trappe
,
in
such
sort
that
he
shall
neuer
be
able
to
get
out
with
his
credit
.
28.
Thus
far
I
haue
thought
good
to
lay
downe
the
words
of
my
Adioynder
,
because
they
be
sufficient
not
only
to
answer
my
Lord
of
Winchester
fully
,
and
to
discouer
his
fraud
in
the
lame
allegation
of
S.
Hieromes
text
,
but
also
to
decyde
the
Controuersy
betwixt
the
Cardinall
,
and
my
Lord
(
&
consequently
betwixt
M.
Collins
,
and
me
)
which
is
,
What
was
the
fayth
,
&
practise
of
the
primitiue
Church
touching
the
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
which
you
see
heere
testified
to
be
the
same
that
we
Catholicks
professe
,
and
practise
at
this
day
,
impugned
then
by
the
heretike
Vigilantius
in
the
same
sort
,
and
sense
,
that
now
it
is
impugned
by
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
M.
Collins
,
and
their
fellow
Protestants
of
this
tyme
,
and
then
also
defended
by
S.
Hierome
in
the
same
sense
,
and
with
the
same
termes
,
and
circumstances
,
that
we
Catholiks
defend
it
at
this
day
.
Besydes
that
,
it
is
euident
that
S.
Hierome
doth
not
defend
here
his
own
priuate
opinion
,
but
the
publick
practise
,
and
consequently
the
generall
fayth
of
the
whole
Church
(
from
whence
the
publick
,
and
vniuersall
practise
proceeded
)
and
this
appeareth
by
the
examples
which
he
alleadgeth
of
the
most
solemne
,
sumptuous
,
&
triumphant
translation
of
the
holy
reliques
of
S.
Andrews
,
S.
Luke
,
S.
Tymothy
,
&
Samuel
the
prophet
with
admirable
celebrity
,
applause
,
and
deuotion
of
infinit
numbers
of
people
,
singing
continually
prayses
to
our
Sauiour
Christ
all
the
way
they
went
.
This
then
being
so
,
let
vs
now
see
,
what
M.
Collins
sayth
to
all
this
,
and
how
he
defendeth
my
Lord
of
Winchesters
lame
,
and
fraudulent
allegation
of
Saint
Hierome
obiected
to
him
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
:
you
shall
heare
all
he
saith
,
euen
in
his
own
words
,
and
then
iudge
of
it
as
you
shall
see
cause
.
Thus
then
he
saith
pag
.
360.
nu
.
10.
29.
You
brooke
not
,
that
S.
Hieroms
adorare
cineres
Abdiae
,
in
his
epistle
ad
Marcellā
,
should
be
expounded
by
the
same
S.
Hierom
writing
to
Vigilantius
,
and
that
not
paulò
vigilantiùs
,
perhaps
,
by
non
adoramus
;
we
worship
not
only
not
reliques
but
neither
Cherubim
nor
Seraphim
nor
any
such
like
:
yet
if
it
be
true
,
which
wee
are
often
taught
by
S.
Augustine
,
that
Ecclesiasticall
writers
are
not
so
absolute
in
their
writings
,
but
that
they
may
fall
into
error
now
and
then
,
and
be
reformed
by
the
Iudgment
of
after
commers
,
much
more
may
they
be
corrected
by
their
owne
selues
in
other
places
,
and
their
suddener
,
or
lesse
aduised
phrase
of
speach
one
while
,
be
qualifyed
,
and
tempered
by
their
more
deliberate
resolution
at
another
.
As
heer
S.
Hierome
.
Thus
saith
M.
Collins
,
with
more
which
I
will
lay
downe
,
when
I
shall
haue
said
some
what
to
this
.
30.
First
,
you
see
,
that
hitherto
he
doth
not
set
downe
so
much
as
one
word
of
my
text
(
neither
doth
he
afterward
)
&
the
mention
he
maketh
of
it
,
is
only
this
,
that
I
brooke
not
,
that
S.
Hieromes
adorare
cineres
Abdiae
should
be
expounded
by
S.
Hierome
,
himself
(
writing
against
Vigilantius
)
by
non
adoramus
.
But
I
wonder
where
he
findeth
,
or
how
he
gathereth
of
my
text
,
that
I
do
not
brooke
it
,
seeing
that
I
had
reason
both
to
brooke
it
,
and
to
be
glad
of
it
,
as
of
that
which
turneth
to
M.
Collins
his
confusion
,
and
to
the
cleare
proofe
of
the
Catholick
fayth
,
touching
holy
reliques
.
Secondly
you
see
,
he
saith
,
that
S.
Hierome
wrote
to
Vigilantius
,
not
paulò
vigilantiùs
perhaps
,
that
is
to
say
,
not
carefully
and
warily
inough
,
wherby
he
contradicts
not
only
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
but
also
himself
;
for
my
Lord
appealeth
specialy
to
S.
Hieroms
non
adoramus
,
written
to
Vigilantius
to
expound
his
adoramus
written
to
Marcella
,
saying
,
as
you
haue
heard
before
,
that
when
S.
Hierome
was
to
speake
properly
,
to
wit
to
Vigilanti●●
who
pressed
him
strictly
,
then
he
denyeth
the
adoration
of
reliques
with
non
adoramus
,
we
do
not
adore
them
.
So
as
my
Lord
presumeth
that
there
S.
Hierome
wrote
very
warily
,
which
also
M.
Collins
himself
affirmeth
afterward
expresly
,
saying
thus
of
S.
Hieromes
writing
first
to
Marcella
,
and
after
to
Vigilantius
.
31.
In
the
full
source
(
sayth
he
)
of
his
Rhetorique
,
and
when
he
spake
without
an
Aduersary
,
or
to
one
that
could
vnderstand
him
inoffensiuely
,
&
with
discretion
sufficient
,
he
speaks
for
adoring
Abdias
his
ashes
,
that
is
,
for
the
zealous
resorting
to
the
place
of
his
buriall
(
for
that
is
all
:
)
but
where
he
speakes
before
his
Aduersary
,
before
Vigilantius
,
like
the
Bird
which
sleeps
with
the
throne
at
her
breast
,
then
more
vigilantly
,
more
accurately
,
and
more
circumspecth
he
denyes
it
vtterly
,
that
they
adore
either
reliques
,
or
things
better
then
relikes
,
euen
those
for
whose
sake
the
reliques
are
made
much
off
.
So
he
:
affirming
expresly
that
S.
Hierome
to
Vigilantius
wrote
more
vigilantly
,
more
accurately
,
and
more
circumspectly
,
wheras
before
he
sayd
,
that
he
wrot
to
him
perhaps
not
paulò
vigilantiùs
,
not
vigilantly
,
or
warily
inough
:
and
though
he
say
it
with
a
(
perhaps
)
yet
how
it
agreeth
with
that
which
now
he
affirmeth
,
I
know
not
for
my
part
,
but
I
think
that
perhaps
he
was
scarce
awake
when
he
wrote
it
.
32.
But
then
he
goeth
forward
,
and
alleadgeth
some
part
of
S.
Hieromes
Text
thus
.
There
,
error
iuuenum
,
and
culpa
muliercularum
non
est
imputanda
religiosis
hominibus
;
the
errour
of
young
men
,
and
the
default
of
light
giddy
women
is
not
to
be
imputed
to
religious
persons
.
There
paucorum
culpa
non
praeiudicat
religioni
,
the
aberration
of
some
few
is
no
preiudice
to
religion
.
Lastly
there
,
non
adoramus
&c.
We
worship
neither
Reliques
,
nor
Martyrs
,
nor
Angells
,
neither
any
name
that
is
named
either
in
this
world
,
or
in
the
world
to
come
,
but
God
only
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
seeking
notably
to
cosen
,
and
gull
the
vnwary
Reader
and
to
make
him
belieue
,
that
S.
Hierome
not
only
renounceth
the
veneration
of
Reliques
with
his
non
adoaramus
but
also
that
he
attributeth
the
same
as
a
fault
to
a
few
young
men
and
light
giddy
headed
women
,
whose
errour
should
not
be
imputed
to
religious
persons
,
or
to
Religion
it selfe
;
wherein
truly
I
cannot
but
admire
,
and
detest
the
impudent
falsity
of
this
fellow
.
33.
For
he
not
only
vseth
the
same
fraud
that
my
Lord
of
Winchester
did
in
the
fraudulent
,
and
lame
allegation
of
S.
Hieromes
text
,
leauing
out
that
which
followeth
,
and
clearely
proueth
the
veneration
of
Reliques
(
as
you
haue
seene
in
that
which
I
haue
alleadged
out
of
my
Adioynder
)
but
also
he
craftily
dissembleth
what
the
fault
was
,
which
Saint
Hierome
blameth
in
these
young
men
,
and
light
giddy-headed
women
,
to
the
end
his
Reader
may
conceaue
it
to
be
the
veneration
●f
Reliques
;
wheras
the
fault
was
that
some
delicts
of
incontinency
were
committed
by
yong
men
,
and
women
in
Churches
in
the
night
,
whyles
they
watched
at
the
tombes
of
Martyrs
(
as
then
the
custome
was
)
which
custome
Vigilantius
impugned
vpon
pretence
of
that
abuse
,
and
S.
Hierome
condemning
the
abuse
,
defended
the
custome
,
as
not
to
be
reiected
for
the
fault
of
a
few
.
34.
And
this
also
would
haue
beene
cleare
inough
,
if
M.
Collins
had
not
curtalled
S.
Hieromes
Text
in
two
or
three
places
,
euen
in
those
few
lines
which
he
alleadgeth
out
of
him
.
For
S.
Hierome
hauing
first
signifyed
that
Vigilantius
carped
at
the
sayd
custome
of
night-watches
in
the
Churches
of
Martyrs
,
sayth
thus
after
a
while
:
Error
autem
&
culpa
&c.
The
errour
and
fault
of
young
men
,
and
most
base
women
,
qui
per
noctem
sape
deprehenditur
,
which
is
often
discouered
in
the
night
,
is
not
to
be
imputed
to
religious
men
,
Quia
&
in
vigilijs
Paschae
tale
quid
fieri
plerumque
conuincitur
,
for
it
is
manifest
that
some
such
thing
is
also
committed
in
the
vigils
of
the
Paschall
Feast
,
and
yet
religion
is
not
preiudiced
by
the
fault
of
a
few
,
qui
&
absque
vigilijs
possunt
errare
vel
in
suis
,
vel
in
alienis
domibus
,
who
without
watching
may
offend
also
either
in
their
owne
houses
,
or
in
other
mens
;
Apostolorum
fidem
Iudae
proditio
non
destruxit
,
&
nostras
ergo
vigilias
malae
aliorum
vigiliae
non
destruent
.
The
treachery
of
Iudas
did
not
destroy
the
fayth
of
the
Apostles
,
and
therefore
neither
shall
the
euill
watching
of
others
destroy
our
watchings
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Hieromes
with
more
that
followeth
to
the
same
purpose
,
which
I
omit
for
breuityes
sake
,
seeing
that
this
may
suffice
to
shew
M.
Collins
his
fraud
in
nipping
,
and
clipping
off
heere
,
and
there
such
pieces
of
S.
Hieroms
text
,
as
do
shew
the
matter
,
whereof
he
treateth
:
and
this
no
doubt
he
doth
to
the
end
,
that
the
Reader
may
be
the
more
easily
deluded
therwith
,
and
imagine
that
the
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
was
the
abuse
which
S.
Hierome
blamed
;
whereas
you
see
,
he
speaketh
of
a
farre
different
matter
.
35.
And
can
there
be
a
fyner
piece
of
cozenage
then
this
?
But
all
this
whyle
,
you
see
nothing
answered
to
all
that
ample
discourse
which
I
made
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
S.
Hierome
,
nothing
I
meane
to
the
reason
why
S.
Hierome
sayd
to
Vigilantius
non
adoramus
,
we
do
not
adore
the
Reliques
of
Martyrs
(
to
wit
in
the
sense
of
Vigilantius
who
tooke
adoration
for
diuine
honour
)
nothing
to
Saint
Hieromes
reason
,
why
the
holy
Reliques
of
Martyrs
are
to
be
honoured
,
to
wit
,
that
we
may
adore
,
sayth
S.
Hierom
(
that
is
to
say
yeild
diuine
honour
to
)
him
,
whose
Martyrs
they
are
:
we
honour
the
seruants
,
sayth
he
,
that
their
honour
may
redound
to
the
honour
of
their
Lord
.
Nothing
is
sayd
to
the
publik
practise
of
the
Church
expresly
testifyed
by
S.
Hierome
,
with
the
examples
of
the
most
solemne
,
and
sumptuous
translation
of
the
holy
Reliques
,
first
of
S.
Andrew
,
S.
Luke
,
&
S.
Tymothy
in
the
tyme
of
Constantine
the
first
Christian
Emperour
,
&
after
of
Samuel
the
Prophet
in
S.
Hieromes
owne
tyme
,
with
wonderfull
concourse
and
deuotion
of
all
sorts
of
Christian
people
;
nothing
to
the
testimony
which
S.
Hierome
giueth
that
the
Diuells
(
the
inhabitors
,
sayth
he
,
and
possessours
of
Vigilantius
)
did
roare
at
the
presence
of
those
holy
Reliques
.
To
all
this
,
I
say
,
M.
Collins
obmutuit
,
for
he
sayth
not
one
word
.
36.
Neither
doth
he
seeke
to
defend
,
and
much
lesse
doth
he
cleare
my
Lord
of
the
double
fraud
,
wherwith
I
charged
his
Lorship
;
double
I
say
,
as
well
in
changing
the
state
of
the
question
about
the
word
adoration
,
as
in
the
lame
allegation
of
S.
Hieromes
Text
,
cutting
it
off
there
,
where
it
would
haue
euidently
conuinced
him
,
if
he
had
alleadged
it
.
And
it
is
no
marueile
,
though
he
laboureth
not
to
cleare
my
Lord
of
that
cryme
,
seeing
he
falleth
into
it
himselfe
,
alleadging
the
same
wordes
that
my
Lord
did
,
with
the
same
fraud
,
as
if
I
had
not
discouered
it
in
my
Lord
,
and
charged
his
Lordship
directly
with
it
.
Can
there
be
greater
falsity
,
&
impudency
then
this
?
37.
Neuertheles
,
that
you
may
see
,
how
narrowly
he
hath
pryed
into
my
discourse
vpon
S.
Hierome
,
to
the
end
,
to
take
some
aduantage
,
if
he
could
.
You
shall
vnderstand
that
for
lacke
of
better
matter
he
taketh
exception
to
my
translation
of
two
or
three
words
,
saying
to
me
thus
pag
.
361.
num
.
11.
Heere
also
we
haue
another
cast
of
your
sweet
latinity
num
.
22.
Ais
,
Vigilantius
&c.
which
breaking
off
,
you
conster
thus
:
You
say
that
Vigilantius
,
how
fitly
for
Grammar
let
the
Grammarians
iudge
.
So
he
.
But
is
it
possible
,
that
he
could
see
these
two
or
three
wordes
to
cauill
vpon
,
and
not
see
himselfe
,
and
my
Lord
notably
taxed
by
S.
Hierome
(
togeather
with
Vigilantius
their
progenitour
)
in
that
which
followeth
immediatly
,
and
maketh
vp
the
sense
of
my
words
?
38.
For
whereas
my
Lord
had
obiected
to
me
S.
Hieromes
non
adoramus
&c.
and
I
had
signifyed
in
my
Adioynder
,
that
S.
Hierome
spake
there
of
adoration
,
as
it
signifyeth
diuine
honour
,
according
to
the
sense
,
and
meaning
of
his
aduersary
Vigilantius
(
who
held
the
adoration
of
reliques
for
Idolatry
)
my
Adioynder
hath
S.
Hieromes
wordes
to
Riparius
,
thus
:
Ais
,
sayth
S.
Hierome
,
Vigilantius
&c.
you
say
,
that
Vigilantius
openeth
againe
his
stinking
mouth
,
and
casteth
forth
a
most
filthy
sauour
against
the
reliques
of
holy
Martyrs
,
and
calleth
vs
who
reuerence
them
,
and
worship
the
bones
of
the
dead
,
Cinerarios
,
&
Idololatras
,
worshippers
of
ashes
,
and
Idolaters
.
Thus
farre
I
alleadged
S.
Hierome
,
wherin
you
see
what
languague
he
would
vse
to
M.
Collins
,
if
he
were
now
liuing
.
39.
But
first
to
speake
a
word
or
two
of
his
exception
to
my
translation
,
as
not
fit
for
Grammer
;
it
is
euident
that
if
he
saw
the
text
in
S.
Hierome
(
as
I
doubt
not
but
he
did
)
he
could
not
but
see
the
errour
to
be
in
the
print
,
and
not
in
my
translation
,
which
is
very
litterall
,
according
to
the
true
wordes
and
text
of
S.
Hierome
,
whose
latin
is
this
,
Ais
,
Vigilantium
os
foetidum
rursum
aperire
&c.
which
I
translate
in
my
Adioyder
thus
,
you
lay
that
Vigilantius
openeth
againe
his
stinking
mouth
&c.
by
which
●ranslation
of
myne
(
being
most
proper
)
and
according
to
the
very
letter
of
S.
Hierome
,
any
man
may
easily
see
,
that
the
text
in
my
Adioynder
(
hauing
Vigilantius
and
not
Vigilantium
)
is
erroneous
,
by
the
negligence
of
the
Printer
,
for
otherwise
the
fault
would
haue
beene
in
my
English
translation
,
as
well
as
in
my
Latin
text
;
and
therefore
M.
Collins
sheweth
himselfe
no
lesse
impertinent
then
malicious
to
take
exception
to
my
Latinity
for
this
;
but
of
his
translations
,
and
latinity
,
I
shall
haue
occasion
to
speake
els
where
,
and
make
no
doubt
to
proue
him
to
be
most
ridiculous
for
both
.
40.
But
that
which
I
wish
to
be
noted
heere
is
,
that
his
diligence
to
search
out
,
&
to
take
hould
of
such
trifles
as
this
doth
comdemne
him
of
willfull
malice
in
balking
such
an
euident
testimony
of
the
Catholike
truth
as
heer
he
saw
,
and
dissembleth
,
excolans
culicem
,
&
camelum
glutiens
(
as
our
Sauiour
sayd
of
the
Pharisees
Matth
.
23.
)
strayning
a
Gnat
,
and
swallowing
vp
a
Camel
.
For
in
this
very
place
which
he
calleth
in
question
for
my
translation
,
he
saw
three
things
,
which
sufficed
to
confound
both
my
Lord
and
him
.
The
first
,
that
he
and
his
fellows
(
who
charge
vs
with
Idolatry
for
the
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
)
are
the
true
brood
of
Vigilantius
the
Heretike
.
The
second
,
that
as
often
,
as
they
inueigh
against
holy
Reliques
,
they
open
their
stinking
mouths
,
&
cast
forth
a
filthy
sauour
in
the
opinion
of
S.
Hierome
.
The
third
,
that
S.
Hierome
meant
by
his
,
non
adoramus
reliquias
Martyrum
,
only
to
cleare
the
Catholikes
of
that
tyme
of
the
imputation
of
Idolatry
;
&
therefore
he
denyeth
that
the
Catholikes
did
adore
them
with
diuine
honour
,
but
denyeth
not
the
worship
and
veneration
,
which
the
Church
vseth
,
and
he
expresly
acknowledgeth
presently
after
,
as
I
haue
amply
declared
before
,
&
M.
Collins
himself
confesseth
it
a
little
after
in
the
same
Paragraph
though
very
absurdly
saying
thus
:
S.
Hierome
expounds
his
adorare
,
in
one
place
by
non
adorare
,
sed
honorare
in
another
;
when
the
passion
was
cooled
,
&
the
iudgment
awaked
.
Non
colimus
&
adoramus
,
sed
honoramus
&c.
lib
.
1.
cont
.
Vigil
.
Thus
sayth
he
.
Giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
when
S.
Hierome
wrote
to
Marcella
,
and
vsed
the
word
adorare
,
he
was
in
heat
of
passion
,
and
his
iudgment
was
a
sleep
;
but
when
he
wrote
against
Vigilantius
,
his
passion
was
cooled
,
and
his
iudgment
awaked
,
&
that
therefore
he
tempered
it
with
a
more
moderate
word
,
to
wit
,
honorare
.
41
Heereupon
it
may
be
gathered
,
that
in
the
opinion
of
M.
Collins
,
S.
Hierome
being
in
the
heate
of
his
passion
,
when
he
wrote
to
Marcella
,
vsed
adorare
to
signify
diuine
worship
;
and
so
when
he
inuited
her
to
adore
the
ashes
of
S.
Iohn
Baptist
,
Elizaeus
,
&
Abdias
,
he
would
haue
her
to
commit
flat
Idolatry
;
els
why
was
he
more
in
passion
,
when
he
wrote
to
her
,
then
when
he
wrot
against
Vigilantius
?
For
if
he
vnderstood
no
more
by
adorare
,
writing
to
Marcella
,
but
honorare
(
as
M.
Collins
sayth
he
expounds
it
in
his
booke
against
Vigilantius
)
wherein
did
then
consist
the
heat
of
his
passion
?
Perhaps
M.
Collins
wil
say
,
that
it
consisted
in
that
he
applyed
adorare
to
creatures
,
which
is
due
only
to
the
Creatour
,
but
if
he
say
so
,
what
will
he
say
of
S.
Ambrose
,
S.
Augustine
,
and
other
Fathers
,
yea
and
of
the
penners
of
holy
Scriptures
themselues
,
who
apply
it
very
often
to
the
worship
of
creatures
,
as
I
haue
amply
shewed
in
my
Adioynder
.
42.
Besides
that
M.
Collins
himselfe
graunteth
pag
.
369.
lin
.
18.
that
S.
Augustine
acknowledgeth
in
his
tenth
book
de
ciuitat●
Dei
cap
.
1.
that
not
only
Adoratio
,
but
Religio
,
and
Pietas
are
wordes
equiuocall
,
or
of
diuers
significations
;
and
he
sayth
also
a
little
before
in
the
same
Paragraph
,
that
adorare
is
transferred
to
men
whome
we
adore
ciuilly
;
yea
he
confesseth
afterwards
pag
.
372.
num
.
15.
and
pag
.
373.
lin
4.
that
the
Crosse
may
be
adored
in
Kings
ciuilly
,
because
S.
Ambrose
sayth
that
Helē
did
wisely
to
cause
the
nayle
of
Christs
Crosse
to
be
set
in
the
diademe
of
the
Emperour
Constantine
her
sonne
,
vt
crux
Christi
adoretur
in
Regibus
,
that
the
Crosse
of
Christ
may
be
adored
in
Kinges
;
and
finally
he
granteth
that
S.
Augustine
applyeth
the
word
adorare
to
the
sacrament
of
Baptisme
,
and
Circumcision
,
saying
to
Faustus
the
Manichee
,
adoratur
in
gestante
,
it
is
adored
in
the
bearer
.
43.
Now
then
,
I
would
gladly
know
of
M.
Collins
,
why
S.
Hierome
is
to
be
thoght
more
passsionate
,
or
lesse
iudicious
in
applying
adorare
to
the
worship
of
creatures
then
S.
Ambrose
in
applying
it
to
the
Crosse
,
and
S.
Augustine
to
Ba●tisme
,
or
Circumcision
;
yea
,
or
Maister
Collins
himselfe
,
who
graunteth
it
to
be
applyed
to
the
worship
of
men
;
for
if
it
signify
only
diuine
worship
,
then
they
were
as
much
ouerseene
as
S.
Hierome
;
and
if
it
signify
also
an
inferiour
honour
(
which
may
be
more
or
lesse
according
to
the
different
obiects
)
then
truly
S.
Hierome
had
as
good
a
warrant
to
vse
it
in
that
sense
as
any
other
;
so
as
M.
Collins
hath
shewed
himselfe
no
lesse
simple
then
saucy
,
to
censure
so
deeply
this
learned
,
and
holy
Father
for
vsing
a
word
in
a
sense
no
lesse
frequent
in
holy
Scripture
,
then
in
the
ancient
Fathers
.
44.
Much
more
modestly
(
though
absurdly
)
did
my
Lord
answere
this
place
of
S.
Hierome
,
saying
that
he
vsed
adorare
(
not
properly
but
)
figuratiuely
,
and
namely
by
the
figure
called
Catachresis
,
which
I
confuted
amply
in
my
Adioynder
,
by
the
iudgment
of
Quintilian
,
and
Isidore
,
who
teach
that
Catachresis
doth
import
the
abuse
of
a
metaphore
,
when
there
wanteth
a
proper
word
,
which
cannot
be
sayd
in
this
case
;
for
honorare
and
venerari
might
haue
expressed
S.
Hieromes
meaning
,
much
better
then
adorare
,
if
it
did
properly
signify
nothing
but
to
yield
diuine
honour
.
45.
And
now
to
the
end
you
may
see
what
a
good
Gramarian
M.
Collins
is
,
who
often
carpeth
at
my
little
skill
it
grammer
(
though
hitherto
little
to
his
credit
)
you
shall
vnderstand
that
he
answereth
to
this
,
pag●
362.
lin
.
8.
that
the
Grammarians
will
te●●
me
,
that
there
is
a
Catachresis
in
the
verbe
sperare
,
in
this
verse
of
Virgil
;
Hunc
ego
si
pot●●
tantum
sperare
dolorem
,
albeit
there
want
no
words
to
supply
the
sense
of
it
,
as
timere
prouidere
,
metuere
&c.
So
sayth
he
.
46.
But
if
it
please
him
to
take
the
paines
to
turne
his
Dictionaryes
,
he
shall
find
that
sperare
doth
not
signify
only
to
hope
,
but
also
to
feare
;
and
therefore
Virgil
vseth
it
in
that
sense
els
where
,
as
sperare
Deos
,
to
feare
the
Gods
;
and
Terence
also
hath
it
in
the
same
sense
as
in
Andria
Act.
2.
Sce●
.
3.
Quod
tu
speres
propulsabo
facile
,
I
will
easily
deliuer
thee
from
that
feare
;
neuertheles
I
will
not
deny
but
that
it
doth
signify
more
commonly
and
properly
to
hope
,
then
to
feare
;
and
therfore
Seruius
in
his
Comment
vpon
that
verse
of
Virgil
,
sayth
sperare
dolorem
pro
timere
,
is
a
figure
called
Acyrologia
,
that
is
to
say
,
an
vnproper
speach
,
which
Quintilian
lib
.
8.
cap
.
2.
confirmeth
saying
:
Id
quod
apud
〈◇〉
improprium
,
{αβγδ}
apud
Graecos
vocatur
,
tha●
which
with
vs
is
called
vnproper
,
is
among
the
Greekes
called
{αβγδ}
;
and
this
he
exemplifyeth
with
those
words
of
Virgil
,
Tantum
sperare
dolorem
;
and
presently
after
distinguisheth
the
same
expresly
from
Catachresis
,
signifying
that
euery
thing
which
is
not
proper
,
is
not
presently
to
be
counted
vitiously
vnproper
,
because
many
thinges
haue
no
names
,
eyther
in
Greek
or
Latyn
,
&
therfore
,
saith
he
,
Catachresis
is
necessary
,
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
that
it
is
necessary
for
●uch
things
as
haue
no
proper
names
.
47.
To
Quintilian
,
and
Seruius
may
be
added
Despauterius
de
figuris
,
Calepine
,
&
Thesaurus
Linguae
latinae
,
in
the
word
Acyrologia
,
who
do
al
of
thē
cite
those
words
of
Virgil
for
an
example
of
the
figure
Acyrologia
,
besides
that
,
not
only
they
,
but
also
Donatus
,
&
Festus
do
expresly
require
to
Catachresis
,
that
the
thing
expressed
by
that
figure
,
should
want
a
proper
name
;
so
that
it
shal
be
well
that
M.
Collins
do
,
for
his
own
credit
,
name
vnto
vs
those
Grammarians
,
who
,
he
saith
,
will
tel
me
that
there
is
a
Catachresis
in
sperare
;
seing
I
haue
tould
him
,
in
the
meane
tyme
,
of
so
many
of
principall
note
,
who
fynd
in
it
another
figure
,
viz.
Acyrologia
,
and
do
confirme
that
which
I
said
in
my
Adioynder
of
Catachresis
,
to
wit
,
that
the
want
of
a
pro●per
word
or
name
is
necessary
therto
;
so
as
M
Collins
hath
now
vtterly
lost
the
reputation
of
a
grammarian
(
wherein
he
is
wont
to
glory
exceedingly
,
as
you
may
haue
seene
,
by
his
frequent
recourse
to
Grammar
and
Grammarians
)
and
therfore
I
cannot
but
wonder
how
such
an
ignorant
fellow
as
he
,
got
to
be
maister
of
the
Chief
Chayre
in
Cambridge
,
seeing
he
is
not
fit
to
be
so
much
as
vsher
of
a
Grammar
Schoole
,
hauing
learned
no
better
his
Tropes
,
and
Figures
,
which
euery
boy
(
at
least
in
these
parts
)
that
is
past
his
Rhetorike
,
vnderstandeth
better
then
he
.
A
serious
discourse
of
M.
Collins
against
the
veneration
,
reseruation
,
digging
vp
and
carrying
about
of
holy
Reliques
is
throughly
examined
,
and
his
incredible
impudency
,
fraud
,
&
falshood
therin
discouered
by
the
manifest
abuse
of
S.
Ambrose
,
Sozomen
,
Theodoret
,
S.
Chrysostome
,
Optatus
,
S.
Gregory
the
Great
,
S.
Gregory
of
Towers
,
Origen
,
Victor
Vticensis
,
and
S.
Hierome
.
CHAP.
XI
.
THERE
followeth
in
M.
Collins
a
large
discourse
,
and
truly
a
strang
one
,
partly
against
the
digging
vp
,
and
keeping
of
Reliques
,
and
partely
against
the
translation
and
circumgestation
of
them
(
to
vse
his
owne
tearmes
)
but
so
fraught
with
falsity
,
&
folly
,
as
I
know
not
whether
of
the
two
doth
more
abound
therein
;
and
therfore
for
as
much
as
I
make
no
doubt
,
but
that
he
hath
pleased
himself
excedingly
in
it
,
and
beaten
his
braynes
well
fauouredly
about
it
,
in
hope
to
crush
our
Cause
,
and
to
stop
our
mouthes
eternally
for
the
matter
of
reliques
,
I
will
take
a
little
paynes
to
examyne
it
throughout
,
and
answere
it
as
breifely
as
conueniently
I
may
,
not
doubting
but
to
stop
his
mouth
,
and
,
besides
the
discouery
of
his
fraudes
(
which
is
my
principall
intention
)
to
haue
sufficient
occasion
to
proue
,
&
confirme
the
verity
of
our
Catholicke
doctryne
concerning
this
Controuersie
.
1.
Well
then
he
alleadgeth
2.
places
out
of
S.
Ambrose
,
the
first
is
lib
.
1.
de
Abraham
cap
.
9.
where
he
byds
vs
,
saith
M.
Collins
,
non
diutiùs
inhaerere
mortuis
,
but
only
,
officij
quantum
sat
est
deferre
,
that
is
,
in
effect
to
bury
the
departed
,
but
not
to
dwell
long
vpon
dead
corses
:
which
how
can
it
stand
with
preseruing
of
Reliques
,
I
say
not
,
honouring
,
obseruing
&
worshipping
them
?
So
he
;
as
wisely
as
he
is
wont
.
For
wheras
S.
Ambrose
saith
that
we
must
not
dwell
ouer
long
vpon
dead
bodies
,
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
he
saith
it
vpon
the
occasion
of
Abrahans
moderate
lamentation
for
the
death
of
his
wife
Sara
insinuated
in
the
23.
Chapter
of
Genesis
,
which
therfore
he
proposeth
for
an
example
to
Christians
,
exhorting
them
to
vse
moderation
,
as
well
in
their
mourning
,
and
lamentation
for
the
dead
,
as
also
for
the
tyme
that
they
bestow
therein
,
because
no
doubt
,
he
had
noted
in
his
dayes
some
great
cxcesse
in
both
,
as
yet
also
may
be
obserued
in
some
Countreys
far
more
then
in
ours
.
But
what
is
this
to
the
keeping
,
or
worshiping
of
Reliques
,
except
M.
Collins
can
proue
quidlibet
ex
quolibet
?
Besides
that
,
he●seth
heere
a
notable
fraud
very
ordinary
with
him
,
and
his
fellowes
,
to
wit
,
to
change
the
state
of
the
question
,
from
Saints
to
ordinary
dead
men
,
of
whome
we
doe
not
now
treate
,
as
shal
be
further
declared
after
a
while
.
2.
His
second
place
of
S.
Ambrose
is
taken
out
of
his
second
booke
of
Offices
cap
.
28.
where
he
sayth
thus
:
Nemo
potest
indignari
,
quia
humandis
fidelium
reliquijs
spatia
laxata
sunt
:
nemo
potest
dolere
,
quia
in
sepulturis
Christianorum
requies
desunctorum
est
.
No
man
can
grudge
that
the
ground
should
be
enlarged
for
the
buriall
of
the
bodyes
of
the
faythfull
deceased
:
no
man
can
be
sorry
,
that
the
rest
or
repose
of
the
dead
is
in
the
buriall
or
graues
of
the
Christians
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Ambrose
:
whereupon
M.
Collins
asketh
this
question
.
Is
this
man
likely
,
sayth
he
,
to
countenance
Reliques
or
the
worshipping
thereof
?
Yes
truely
M.
Collins
,
the
man
is
so
likely
to
do
it
,
and
doth
it
indeed
so
fully
(
which
you
shall
see
after
a
whyle
)
that
you
may
be
ashamed
to
demand
this
,
especially
vpon
no
better
ground
then
vpon
this
place
heere
alleadged
,
which
might
indeed
proue
somewhat
against
such
as
would
deny
that
Christians
ought
to
be
buryed
,
or
affirme
,
that
is
it
not
a
worke
of
mercy
to
bury
the
dead
,
and
to
prouide
Church-yards
,
or
conuenient
places
for
it
:
but
against
the
worshipping
,
or
preseruing
of
the
Reliques
of
Martyrs
or
Saints
,
S.
Ambrose
in
this
place
sayth
nothing
at
all
,
for
that
he
speaketh
not
of
such
dead
men
,
but
only
of
the
dead
bodyes
of
ordinary
Christians
,
amongst
whome
very
many
dye
without
all
opinion
of
sanctity
,
and
many
with
doubt
whether
they
be
saued
or
no
,
&
many
others
,
though
in
respect
of
their
knowne
vertue
they
may
haue
a
great
opinion
of
holynesse
,
yet
because
the
Church
hath
not
giuen
any
publique
approbation
thereof
,
eyther
by
their
Canonization
,
or
otherwayes
,
they
are
not
reputed
,
nor
ranked
among
the
Saints
whose
Reliques
are
are
reserued
or
honoured
,
but
amongst
the
rest
of
the
faythfull
deceased
;
whereas
the
knowne
,
and
canonized
Saints
are
not
reckoned
amongst
the
dead
,
but
amongst
the
euerliuing
.
3.
For
this
cause
the
Church
doth
celebrate
the
feasts
of
the
Martyrs
,
&
Saints
with
the
title
of
Natalis
,
or
Natalitium
,
their
birth
day
,
although
it
be
indeed
the
day
of
their
Martyrdome
,
or
death
,
as
it
is
euident
not
only
in
the
publique
office
,
&
seruice
of
the
Church
,
but
also
in
the
Homilyes
,
and
Sermons
of
the
ancient
Fathers
made
in
the
sayd
feasts
,
and
therfore
(
to
omit
others
)
S.
Ambrose
(
of
whome
we
now
specially
treate
)
beginneth
his
Sermon
in
the
feast
of
the
Apostles
S.
Peter
,
&
S.
Paul
thus
:
Natalem
beatissimorum
Apostolorum
Petri
&
Pauli
hodie
celebramus
&c.
This
day
we
celebrate
the
birth-day
of
the
most
blessed
Apostles
S.
Peter
and
S.
Paul
.
4.
The
like
he
sayth
of
the
feasts
of
the
Saints
Cantius
and
Cantionilla
,
and
diuers
others
.
Whereof
he
yeildeth
the
reason
,
in
his
foresayd
Sermon
of
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
saying
:
Non
enim
mortui
sunt
&c.
For
they
are
not
dead
,
whose
birth
we
celebrate
this
day
,
but
being
borne
againe
,
they
liue
with
bread
,
because
they
are
made
partakers
of
Christ
,
who
is
the
bread
of
life
to
all
;
for
although
their
bodyes
were
slaine
by
their
passion
(
or
suffering
)
yet
the
order
of
the
liuing
is
not
interrupted
thereby
;
therefore
it
is
not
to
be
called
a
death
,
by
the
meanes
whereof
we
are
free
from
persecutours
,
and
vnited
with
Christ
for
euer
&c.
Thus
sayth
S.
Amboose
,
whereby
M.
Collins
may
see
,
that
when
he
speaketh
in
generall
tearmes
of
the
buryalls
,
and
graues
,
or
of
the
bodyes
of
the
dead
,
he
doth
not
comprehend
the
sacred
Tombes
,
shrynes
,
or
holy
bodyes
,
and
reliques
of
the
euerliuing
martyrs
,
and
Saints
of
God
,
whose
neuer-dying
memoryes
the
Church
doth
celebrate
.
5.
And
therefore
now
to
answere
to
his
question
propounded
before
(
as
you
haue
heard
)
whether
this
man
(
he
meaneth
S.
Ambrose
)
was
likely
to
countenance
Reliques
,
or
the
worshipping
thereof
?
I
must
needs
say
,
that
if
he
be
not
ignorant
aboue
measure
,
he
cannot
be
excused
from
exorbitant
malice
,
in
making
a
question
of
that
whereof
no
man
can
doubt
that
is
conuersant
in
S.
Ambrose
,
or
S.
Augustine
,
and
much
lesse
a
Doctor
,
&
publique
Reader
of
Diuinity
;
for
who
knoweth
not
,
if
he
haue
read
eyther
of
those
Fathers
,
that
S.
Ambrose
did
not
only
countenance
,
but
also
reuerence
,
and
worship
holy
reliques
,
seeing
that
the
holy
bodyes
of
diuers
Saints
,
to
wit
,
SS.
Geruasius
and
Protasius
,
SS.
Nazarius
&
Celsus
,
SS.
Vitalis
&
Agricola
,
were
at
three
seuerall
tymes
found
out
by
S.
Ambrose
(
according
to
the
reuelation
which
he
had
from
Almighty
God
)
and
by
him
translated
,
and
honoured
with
great
pompe
,
and
solemnity
;
which
also
Almighty
God
approued
and
authorized
with
manifest
miracles
,
as
S.
Augustine
witnesseth
concerning
the
SS.
Geruasius
and
Protasius
,
in
two
of
his
best
knowne
,
and
most
vndoubted
workes
,
to
wit
,
in
his
Confessions
lib
.
9.
cap
.
7.
and
in
his
22.
booke
de
ciuitate
Dei
cap
.
8.
(
which
latter
my
Lord
of
Winchester
calleth
opus
palmare
Augustini
,
the
principall
,
or
most
excellent
worke
of
Augustine
)
in
both
which
,
this
holy
Father
affirmeth
,
that
a
blind
man
was
restored
to
his
sight
at
the
translation
of
the
bodyes
of
SS.
Geruasius
and
Protasius
,
whiles
he
himselfe
was
at
Millan
.
6.
And
this
miracle
he
sayth
was
done
when
the
Emperour
was
there
,
&
immenso
populo
teste
,
and
an
infinite
number
of
people
being
witnesses
of
it
:
&
in
his
Confessions
he
addeth
,
that
the
blind
man
hauing
touched
the
Coffin
with
a
handkercheffe
and
applyed
it
to
his
eyes
,
was
presently
cured
:
and
sayth
further
,
that
those
who
were
vexed
with
vnclean
spirits
were
disposessed
,
Cùm
propalata
&
effossa
,
digno
cum
honore
ad
Ambrosianam
Basilicā
transferrentur
,
when
the
bodyes
being
discouered
,
&
digged
vp
,
were
translated
to
Ambrose
his
Church
,
with
worthy
,
or
conuenient
honour
.
7.
Loe
then
how
these
holy
bodyes
,
and
reliques
of
the
Saints
were
by
the
authority
of
S.
Ambrose
digged
vp
,
and
translated
with
worthy
honour
from
one
Church
to
another
,
according
to
the
irrefragable
testimony
of
S.
Augustine
,
who
was
an
eye-witnesse
of
it
;
wherof
also
S.
Ambrose
himselfe
relateth
the
history
very
particulerly
as
well
in
an
epistle
to
his
Sister
Marcellina
,
as
also
in
another
to
all
the
Priestes
and
Cleargy
of
Italy
,
wherein
he
declareth
the
manner
how
it
was
reuealed
vnto
him
,
&
that
the
Coffin
wherein
the
holy
Bodyes
were
,
lay
twelue
foot
dee●
in
the
ground
,
that
he
assembled
many
Bishops
,
and
the
whose
Clerg●
,
and
that
he
himselfe
was
the
first
digger
of
the
ground
,
to
find
them
(
primus
ego
,
sayth
he
,
terrae
fossor
accessi
)
&
that
afterwardes
all
the
Bishops
digged
with
him
,
and
finally
that
they
found
the
coffin
and
the
saints
Bodyes
therein
,
as
fresh
as
if
they
had
beene
newly
put
into
it
,
&
mir●●dore
fragrantes
,
and
breathing
forth
a
merueilous
sweete
odour
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Ambrose
,
who
now
you
see
,
is
become
a
digger
vp
of
reliques
,
notwithstanding
that
M.
Collinss
would
perswade
vs
,
that
he
would
haue
them
confined
to
the
perpetuall
obscurity
of
Sepulchers
,
and
Graues
,
when
he
sayd
,
that
in
sepulturis
Christianorum
est
requies
defunctorum
,
in
the
buriall
of
Christians
,
is
the
repose
of
the
dead
.
8.
But
will
you
see
what
S.
Ambrose
sayth
further
concerning
those
holy
Body●s
in
his
Sermon
made
to
the
people
at
the
finding
thereof
?
This
may
be
seene
in
his
Epistle
54.
to
his
Sister
Marcellina
,
wherin
he
declareth
,
that
he
tould
the
people
(
&
for
the
proofe
of
it
,
appealed
to
their
owne
knowledge
&
eye-sight
)
that
Diuels
were
expelled
out
of
many
possessed
persons
,
that
many
diseased
were
cured
of
their
infirmityes
,
that
some
were
healed
with
a
certaine
shaddowe
of
the
holy
Bodyes
;
that
the
handkercheifes
,
and
garments
,
which
were
cast
vpon
the
most
sacred
reliques
became
tactu
ipso
medicabilia
,
medicinall
euen
by
touching
them
,
and
that
therfore
all
men
were
desirous
,
and
glad
to
touch
them
,
&
qui
contigerit
,
saluus
erit
,
and
he
that
shal
touch
them
shal
be
safe
or
cured
.
Thus
doth
S.
Ambrose
testify
,
what
great
benefits
Almighty
God
bestowed
vpon
those
,
that
honoured
his
Saints
,
and
their
reliques
,
or
rather
him
in
them
.
9.
And
so
farre
was
S.
Ambrose
from
desiring
that
the
holy
reliques
of
those
Saints
should
be
hid
againe
,
and
buryed
in
obliuion
(
after
they
were
found
)
that
he
distributed
som
parts
of
thē
to
his
friends
farre
and
neere
,
whereby
many
Churches
were
built
in
honour
of
them
,
not
only
in
Rome
,
and
diuers
places
of
Italy
,
but
also
in
France
,
Germany
,
and
Africke
,
as
may
be
seene
in
Baronius
Tom
.
4.
Ann.
an
.
387.
And
now
to
shew
further
how
much
S.
Ambrose
reuerenced
,
and
honoured
holy
Reliques
,
and
for
what
reason
,
I
will
lay
downe
his
owne
wordes
in
his
14.
sermon
of
the
two
holy
Martyrs
SS.
Nazarius
&
Celsus
,
where
speaking
of
the
great
worthines
of
their
Reliques
,
he
sayth
thus
.
10.
Quod
si
dicas
mihi
quid
honores
&c.
If
you
say
vnto
me
what
doest
thou
honour
in
flesh
now
already
dissolued
and
consumed
,
wherof
God
hath
no
care
,
then
wher
is
that
,
my
dearely
beloued
,
which
truth
it selfe
spake
by
the
Prophet
:
pretiosa
in
conspectu
Domini
mors
Sanctorum
eius
,
the
death
of
Gods
Saints
is
pretious
in
his
sight
?
And
againe
:
mihi
autem
nimis
honorificandi
sunt
amici
tui
Deus
.
O
God
,
thy
friends
are
to
be
honoured
of
me
exceeding
much
.
We
ought
to
honour
Gods
seruants
of
whome
it
is
sayd
in
another
place
,
Dominus
custodit
omnia
ossa
eorum
,
&
vnum
ex
his
non
conteretur
:
our
Lord
preserueth
all
their
bones
,
and
one
of
them
shall
not
be
consumed
,
or
perish
.
I
honour
therefore
in
the
Martyrs
flesh
the
scarrs
or
marks
of
the
wounds
receaued
for
the
name
of
Christ
.
I
honour
the
memory
of
him
that
liueth
with
the
perpetuity
of
Vertue
.
I
honour
the
ashes
that
are
consecrated
by
the
confession
of
the
name
of
Christ
.
I
honour
that
body
,
which
hath
shewed
me
how
to
loue
my
Lord
,
&
hath
taught
me
not
to
feare
death
for
his
sake
.
And
why
shold
not
the
faythful
honor
that
body
which
the
Diuells
do
also
reuerence
;
and
albeit
they
afflicted
it
in
punishing
it
;
yet
they
do
now
glorify
it
in
the
sepulcher
.
Therefore
I
honour
that
body
which
Christ
hath
honoured
by
the
sword
,
and
which
shall
raigne
with
Christ
in
heauen
.
11.
Thus
farre
I
haue
thought
good
to
lay
downe
S.
Ambrose
his
owne
words
,
to
perswade
M.
Collins
,
if
it
may
be
,
that
this
man
(
as
he
calleth
him
)
is
not
only
likly
to
countenance
reliques
,
and
the
worshipping
of
them
,
but
that
he
also
performed
it
indeed
,
yea
and
with
great
reason
,
as
you
haue
seene
by
this
his
owne
pious
,
&
very
elegant
discourse
:
how
then
can
M.
Collins
read
this
without
blushing
?
Or
henceforth
looke
any
man
in
face
,
who
he
may
thinke
hath
read
it
,
&
seene
withall
what
he
hath
written
heere
;
seeing
that
it
is
euident
heereby
,
and
by
the
premisses
,
that
he
maketh
no
conscience
or
scruple
at
all
to
delude
,
and
deceaue
his
Reader
,
with
a
vaine
shew
,
and
ostentation
of
the
authority
of
Fathers
,
when
they
are
flatly
against
him
,
as
heere
you
see
,
he
alleadgeth
against
holy
Reliques
some
patches
,
pieces
,
and
scraps
,
as
I
may
say
,
of
S.
Ambrose
,
nothing
at
all
to
the
purpose
,
when
neuerthelesse
he
knoweth
in
his
own
conscience
,
that
the
sayd
holy
Father
doth
both
in
deedes
and
doctrine
,
vtterly
condemne
him
;
besides
that
I
may
note
heer
the
same
fraud
that
he
vsed
in
the
former
place
,
to
wit
,
his
changing
the
state
of
the
question
from
Saints
to
ordinary
dead
men
,
which
are
of
farre
different
condition
,
and
doe
therefore
require
,
and
admit
farre
different
considerations
.
12.
And
now
albeit
I
hast
to
make
an
end
,
&
am
looth
to
detaine
my selfe
vpon
trifles
,
yet
I
cannot
omit
to
say
somewhat
to
a
parenthesis
of
his
,
in
the
allegation
of
the
aforesayd
place
of
S.
Ambrose
,
to
wit
:
Nemo
potest
indignari
humandis
fidelium
reliquijs
,
spatia
esse
laxata
,
which
he
translateth
thus
:
It
is
no
fault
,
nor
thing
to
be
grudged
at
(
vnlesse
then
by
the
Arians
,
who
carpt
at
S.
Ambrose
without
cause
,
and
so
now
by
the
Iesuits
)
that
the
ground
is
enlarged
to
bury
the
remnants
of
the
faithful
bodyes
massacred
.
So
he
,
giuing
to
vnderstand
,
by
his
Parenthesis
,
that
the
Iesuits
carpe
at
S.
Ambrose
now
without
cause
,
as
the
Arians
did
then
;
but
wherein
trow
you
,
do
the
Iesuits
now
,
or
euer
carpe
at
S.
Ambrose
?
truly
I
thinke
that
no
man
but
M.
Collins
euer
hard
,
or
imagined
any
such
matter
.
13.
The
Arians
carped
at
him
(
as
he
signifieth
himselfe
in
his
2.
booke
of
offices
cap
.
28.
)
not
because
he
enlarged
Church
yardes
,
but
because
he
brake
the
Chalices
,
and
siluer
vessels
of
the
Church
for
the
redemption
of
Captiues
,
by
the
occasion
whereof
he
giueth
3.
instances
,
when
,
&
in
what
cases
the
sacred
vessells
of
the
Church
may
be
alienated
;
to
wit
,
for
the
redemption
of
Captiues
,
for
the
releife
of
the
poore
,
and
for
the
enlarging
of
places
to
bury
the
dead
when
need
requireth
it
.
But
I
hope
M.
Collins
will
not
be
so
shamelesse
to
say
,
that
the
Iesuits
euer
carped
at
S.
Ambrose
for
any
of
those
things
;
then
let
him
tell
vs
for
what
els
,
which
I
am
sure
he
shall
neuer
be
able
to
do
;
and
therefore
you
see
,
how
idly
he
tatleth
,
eyther
not
knowing
,
or
not
caring
,
what
he
saith
▪
so
that
he
say
some
what
to
make
vp
his
muck-heape
of
absurdityes
,
fraudes
,
and
fooleryes
,
and
by
the
way
to
spit
out
now
and
then
some
part
of
his
spite
against
the
Iesuits
.
14.
But
now
let
vs
proceed
:
he
goeth
forward
in
the
same
veyne
,
adding
examples
to
the
authorityes
of
S.
Ambrose
,
to
proue
that
the
translation
and
circumgestation
of
Reliques
is
alltogeather
vnlawfull
.
His
first
is
out
of
Sozomen
.
lib
.
4.
cap
.
20.
where
speaking
of
an
intent
that
Macedonius
Bishop
of
Constantinople
had
to
remoue
the
body
of
Constantine
the
Great
,
out
of
a
Church
in
Constantinople
(
where
it
was
first
interred
)
he
sayth
that
the
Orthodoxe
,
&
godly
Christians
opposed
themselues
thereto
,
houlding
it
for
no
lesse
a
sacriledge
to
translate
dead
bodyes
,
then
to
breake
open
tombes
violently
or
feloniously
:
whereupon
M.
Collins
sayth
.
And
do
not
these
(
Orthodoxe
Christians
)
comdemne
the
vse
of
Reliques
,
which
in
you
is
accompanyed
with
translation
,
with
circumgestation
,
and
such
like
pompes
?
So
he
,
as
well
to
the
purpose
,
as
before
when
he
alleadged
the
two
places
of
S.
Ambrose
;
for
heere
he
changeth
the
state
of
the
question
,
no
lesse
then
there
,
from
a
matter
of
religion
,
to
a
meere
ciuill
matter
.
15.
This
wil
be
euydent
by
the
Circumstances
of
the
history
,
concealed
by
M.
Collins
,
though
they
be
set
downe
by
Sozomen
himselfe
,
whom
he
citeth
.
Thus
then
it
passed
.
Macedonius
the
hereticall
Bishop
of
Constantinople
,
beying
resolued
to
translate
the
body
of
Constantyne
the
great
,
from
the
Church
where
it
was
buryed
(
because
he
thought
it
was
lyke
to
fall
)
was
resisted
by
the
people
,
who
neuertheles
were
deuided
in
opinion
concerning
the
same
;
for
some
of
them
held
it
for
impyety
to
translate
the
body
,
no
lesse
then
if
it
should
be
digged
vp
agayn
;
and
others
thought
it
not
to
be
a
matter
of
any
moment
,
because
(
as
Socrates
saith
,
lib
.
2.
cap
.
30.
)
it
seemed
to
them
,
that
a
dead
body
could
receiue
no
hurt
thereby
.
The
Catholiks
also
(
saith
the
history
)
resisted
with
common
consent
,
because
they
held
it
for
an
iniury
,
and
dishonour
to
the
Emperour
Constantyne
,
who
had
been
of
their
Comunion
,
that
is
to
say
a
Catholike
,
as
they
were
,
besides
other
Considerations
,
which
shal
be
declared
after
a
while
.
Neuerthelesse
Macedonius
remoued
the
body
,
though
with
great
bloud-shed
,
and
slaughter
of
people
,
that
resisted
him
;
wherevpon
the
Emperour
Constantius
(
who
before
fauoured
Macedonius
very
much
)
was
much
alienated
from
him
,
for
the
outrage
committed
in
the
slaughter
of
so
many
,
slayn
by
that
occasion
,
and
for
the
dishonour
,
and
iniury
done
to
his
Father
;
and
lastly
because
it
was
done
without
his
consent
.
This
is
the
substance
of
the
history
,
wherein
you
see
,
there
is
nothing
at
all
that
maketh
against
the
translation
of
Saints
bodyes
.
16.
First
,
because
the
motiue
which
moued
Macedonius
to
translate
Constantynes
body
,
was
not
any
respect
of
holynes
therin
,
or
to
honor
God
in
his
seruants
,
or
for
any
other
religious
consideration
,
but
for
a
meer
ciuill
,
or
temporal
respect
,
to
wit
,
because
the
Church
wherin
he
was
buryed
,
was
(
as
it
seemed
to
Macedonius
)
in
danger
to
fal
,
albeit
there
was
no
such
present
danger
,
as
experience
shewed
,
for
the
Church
stood
still
on
foot
,
and
was
repayred
a
hundred
yeares
after
by
Iustinian
the
Emperour
.
17.
Seconly
,
the
motyues
,
which
moued
the
Catholiks
to
resist
the
translation
,
might
be
diuers
,
whereof
one
might
well
be
,
that
they
saw
no
such
danger
that
the
Church
would
full
as
Macedonius
pretended
;
another
cause
vndoubtedly
was
,
the
great
auersion
that
they
had
from
the
wicked
heretik
Macedonius
their
capital
enemy
&
persecutor
,
in
which
respect
they
were
easily
induced
to
adhere
to
those
that
withstood
him
in
that
action
;
and
the
third
motiue
is
declared
in
the
history
,
to
wyt
,
because
they
held
it
for
a
great
iniury
to
the
worthy
Emperour
deceased
.
18.
Hereof
two
reasons
may
be
yeilded
,
the
one
because
Macedonius
being
a
pernicions
heretik
,
was
not
of
Constantines
communion
,
but
sought
by
that
translation
of
his
body
,
to
perswade
the
world
that
Constantine
was
of
his
sect
,
which
no
doubt
was
most
iniurious
,
not
only
to
the
memory
of
that
Catholike
Emperour
,
but
also
to
all
Catholicks
who
were
of
his
Communion
;
the
other
reason
was
because
Constantyne
had
built
that
Church
most
sumptuosly
in
honour
of
all
the
Apostles
,
with
intention
to
be
buryed
there
,
to
which
end
,
he
caused
also
some
of
the
Apostles
reliques
to
be
brought
thither
,
as
Socrates
witnesseth
lib
.
1.
cap
.
26.
whereof
he
yeildeth
this
reason
(
which
I
d●sire
M.
Collins
to
note
by
the
way
)
least
●e
(
saith
Socrates
)
and
other
Emperours
his
successors
should
be
destituted
of
the
Apostles
reliques
:
therfor
I
say
,
the
Catholicks
had
great
reason
to
take
it
for
an
indignity
,
and
great
iniury
to
that
pious
Emperour
,
that
his
body
should
be
remoued
by
an
heretike
,
from
such
a
famous
Church
built
by
himselfe
for
his
own
buriall
,
in
honour
of
the
Apostles
,
and
enriched
with
their
reliques
,
to
a
Church
of
far
lesse
note
,
as
that
was
,
whither
Macedonius
translated
it
,
being
dedicated
only
to
S.
Acacius
the
martyr
.
19.
Furthermore
,
if
Macedonius
had
meant
to
haue
translated
the
body
of
Constantine
in
quality
of
a
Saints
body
,
with
such
religious
deuotion
,
and
solemnity
as
is
vsuall
,
and
requisite
in
such
translations
:
neyther
the
Catholicks
,
nor
yet
Constantius
the
Emperour
eyther
would
or
could
haue
taken
it
for
an
iniury
to
Constantine
,
who
should
haue
receaued
more
true
honour
thereby
,
then
euer
he
did
by
his
triumphs
,
or
trophyes
,
or
any
other
secular
honour
that
was
euer
done
vnto
him
,
whiles
he
liued
;
so
as
you
see
,
this
case
of
the
remoual
of
Constantines
body
,
for
meer
temporall
respects
,
is
far
different
from
ours
,
which
admitteth
only
religious
Consideraions
,
aswell
for
the
motyues
,
as
for
the
manner
and
execution
of
it
,
all
to
be
intended
,
&
performed
with
reuerence
,
and
deuotion
to
the
greater
honour
of
God
,
and
his
Saints
.
And
therefore
M.
Collins
still
shooteth
wyde
of
the
marke
,
and
is
here
aswell
beside
the
Cushion
,
as
beside
the
question
;
let
vs
then
see
how
he
goeth
on
,
which
I
beseech
thee
(
good
reader
)
well
to
note
,
and
thou
shalt
see
him
play
his
part
kindly
,
I
meane
of
a
notable
cozening
,
and
cogging
Companyon
.
20.
Thus
then
he
sayth
.
When
Babylas
his
body
was
translated
from
Daphne
to
Antioch
by
Iulians
appointment
,
and
the
Diuels
instigation
(
not
by
any
seeking
of
the
Christian
people
)
they
cryed
that
accompanyed
it
all
the
way
as
they
went
:
confundantur
omnes
qui
adorant
sculptilia
;
confounded
be
all
they
that
worship
carued
images
.
Doth
this
please
you
?
Thus
sayth
he
.
To
whom
I
answere
,
that
truly
it
doth
both
please
me
,
&
displease
me
:
it
pleaseth
me
,
and
that
very
much
,
that
this
example
of
the
translation
of
S.
Babylas
being
truly
related
,
will
notably
confirme
the
translation
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
wherby
M.
Collins
himselfe
may
be
confounded
,
no
lesse
then
they
that
worship
carued
Images
.
Againe
it
displeaseth
me
exceedingly
,
that
any
Christian
man
(
especially
one
that
taketh
vpon
him
to
be
a
Doctor
,
Teacher
,
&
Preacher
in
Gods
Church
for
the
saluation
of
souls
)
is
so
impudently
wicked
as
to
peruert
all
kind
of
Authors
,
Historyes
,
and
examples
to
the
distruction
of
such
simple
soules
,
as
will
bel●eue
him
,
whereof
you
haue
had
sufficient
experience
already
in
M.
Collins
,
and
shall
haue
now
further
,
not
only
in
this
example
,
but
also
in
three
,
or
foure
others
which
follow
in
him
immediatly
,
concerning
this
question
of
holy
Reliques
.
21.
Three
thinges
you
see
he
seemeth
to
vrge
against
vs
in
this
example
:
the
first
that
S.
Babylas
his
body
was
translated
by
the
appoyntment
of
Iulian
the
Apostata
;
the
second
,
that
it
was
done
by
the
Diuels
instigation
(
and
not
by
any
seeking
of
the
Christians
;
)
the
third
,
that
they
which
did
accompany
it
,
cryed
all
the
way
as
they
went
,
Confounded
be
all
they
that
worship
carued
Images
.
By
the
two
first
he
would
haue
his
Reader
to
conceaue
,
that
the
good
Christians
of
those
dayes
,
did
not
seeke
to
translate
the
bodyrs
of
Saints
,
but
that
the
Diuell
suggested
it
,
&
Iulian
the
wicked
Apostata
caus●d
it
to
be
performed
;
&
by
the
third
he
thinketh
that
he
hath
giuen
a
great
blow
to
our
worshipping
of
holy
Images
.
22.
Now
then
to
discouer
his
treacherous
falshood
in
these
three
points
,
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
this
S.
Babylas
,
being
a
very
holy
man
,
and
Bishop
of
Antioch
was
martyred
in
the
time
of
Decius
the
Emperour
,
and
that
being
buryed
in
that
Citty
,
his
body
was
held
in
great
veneration
there
amongst
the
Christians
,
vntill
the
tyme
of
Constantine
the
Emperour
,
when
Gallus
his
sisters
Sonne
,
and
brother
to
Iulian
the
Apostata
,
being
declared
Caesar
,
and
Gouernour
of
all
the
●ast
parts
,
translated
it
into
Daphne
neere
vnto
Antioch
,
vpon
this
occasion
.
23.
There
had
beene
in
Daphne
in
ancient
tyme
a
famous
temple
,
and
Oracle
of
Apollo
,
whereto
there
was
continually
great
confluence
of
people
,
especially
of
yong
men
and
women
,
in
respect
of
the
pleasant
scituation
of
the
place
,
which
gaue
occasion
at
the
first
to
the
Poeticall
fable
,
that
Daphne
was
there
turned
into
a
Bay-tree
,
flying
away
from
Apollo
,
who
was
enamoured
of
her
;
for
which
cause
also
the
superstitious
Pagans
thought
that
Apollo
made
speciall
choice
of
that
place
for
his
Temple
,
and
Oracle
,
by
the
which
the
Diuell
deluded
the
people
for
many
ages
;
and
for
as
much
as
that
place
,
was
as
it
were
a
nursery
,
not
only
of
abominable
superstitions
(
by
reason
of
the
Oracle
)
but
also
of
all
intemperance
,
incontinence
,
and
ryot
(
by
reason
of
the
deliciousnes
of
the
place
)
Gallus
being
a
very
good
Christian
,
&
a
pious
Prince
built
a
Church
there
for
the
Christians
,
and
translated
thither
the
holy
reliques
of
S.
Babylas
,
hoping
by
that
meanes
to
purge
the
place
in
tyme
,
as
well
of
the
Idolatry
,
as
also
of
the
vice
,
&
wickednes
that
was
continually
exercised
there
;
and
therefore
I
must
now
heere
by
the
way
desire
M.
Collins
to
note
that
the
Reliques
of
S.
Babylas
were
translated
first
by
Gallus
out
of
Antioch
to
Daphne
,
not
by
the
Diuells
instigation
,
nor
by
an
Apostata
,
or
wicked
prince
but
by
a
vertuous
Prince
and
a
pious
Christian
,
who
was
moued
therto
by
the
inspiration
of
the
holy
Ghost
,
{αβγδ}
(
Imperatori
)
{αβγδ}
.
Ex
edi
.
Sauelliana
.
Deo
ipsius
animum
ad
id
impellente
(
sayth
S.
Chrysostome
lib
.
contra
Gentiles
)
God
mouing
his
mind
therto
,
for
the
confusion
of
the
Diuell
,
as
it
appeared
euidently
by
the
euent
,
which
was
this
.
24.
The
holy
body
was
no
sooner
placed
in
Daphne
,
but
it
strocke
the
Diuell
dumbe
,
which
not
only
Theodoret
(
whome
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
in
his
margent
,
and
seemeth
to
follow
for
this
story
)
but
also
al
other
Historiographers
doe
affirme
with
vnanime
consent
,
yea
and
S.
Chrysostome
,
who
liued
at
the
same
tyme
,
doth
testify
in
his
sayd
booke
against
the
Gentils
,
in
these
words
:
Illi
os
ita
obstruxit
,
vt
vel
lapidibus
ipsis
magis
mutus
redderetur
;
he
(
to
wit
,
S.
Babylas
)
did
so
stop
the
Diuells
mouth
,
that
he
became
more
dumbe
then
the
very
stones
:
&
then
after
a
few
words
he
addeth
:
He
which
was
wont
to
deceaue
all
men
euery
where
,
could
not
endure
to
see
the
very
ashes
of
Babylas
being
dead
,
Ea
enim
est
Sanctorum
potestas
&c.
for
such
is
the
power
of
Saints
,
that
Diuells
cannot
endure
their
shaddowes
,
or
cloathes
whyles
they
liue
,
and
do
feare
their
Tombes
when
they
are
dead
;
therfore
if
there
be
any
man
that
doth
not
belieue
those
things
which
are
sayd
to
haue
beene
done
by
the
Apostles
,
let
him
but
consider
the
miracles
done
at
this
memory
(
that
is
to
say
,
at
the
Reliques
of
this
holy
Martyr
)
and
let
him
be
no
longer
impudent
;
for
he
which
in
tymes
past
did
triumph
ouer
all
the
Gentills
being
now
rebuked
(
or
checked
)
by
the
Martyr
,
as
by
his
maister
,
was
silent
,
and
barked
no
more
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Chrysostome
.
Now
doth
this
please
you
M.
Collins
?
Do
you
like
it
that
God
moued
Gallus
to
translate
these
Reliques
,
and
that
they
were
of
such
force
to
strike
the
Diuell
dumbe
?
Doth
it
please
you
,
that
the
Diuell
,
and
you
are
proued
heere
to
be
of
one
humour
,
seeing
that
neither
of
you
both
can
abide
holy
Reliques
?
But
let
vs
heare
the
rest
.
25.
After
this
both
Gallus
and
Constantius
being
dead
,
and
Iulian
the
wicked
Apostata
in
possession
of
the
whole
Empire
,
it
chaunced
,
that
he
being
determined
to
make
warre
against
the
Persians
,
came
to
Daphne
to
consult
with
his
God
Apollo
,
touching
the
issue
and
successe
of
the
warre
,
but
hauing
giuen
many
Donatiues
,
and
multiplyed
sacrifice
vpon
sacrifice
,
he
could
get
no
other
answere
,
but
that
there
were
many
dead
bodyes
there
about
;
which
must
be
remoued
before
he
could
answere
him
,
this
was
presently
vnderstood
as
well
by
Iulian
himselfe
,
as
by
Apolloes
Priests
,
that
it
concerned
only
the
body
of
S.
Babylas
;
w●ereupon
he
gaue
present
order
,
that
the
Galileans
(
for
so
he
called
the
Christians
)
shold
remoue
his
body
to
some
other
place
whither
they
would
,
which
being
vnderstood
,
a
great
multitude
of
men
,
and
women
,
ould
and
young
flocked
thither
from
Antioch
,
&
placing
the
holy
body
in
a
chariot
,
carryed
and
accompanyed
it
to
Antioch
with
exceeding
great
ioy
and
exultation
,
leaping
,
dancing
,
and
singing
of
the
Psalmes
of
Dauid
,
&
often
repeating
this
verse
:
Consundantur
omnes
qui
adorant
sculptilia
,
confounded
be
they
which
adore
grauen
Images
,
meaning
Iulian
and
his
Paynims
,
who
committed
Idolatry
to
the
Statua
,
or
Image
of
Apollo
,
and
other
false
Gods
,
adoring
them
with
diuine
honour
.
26.
And
that
this
only
was
their
meaning
,
it
is
euident
by
all
the
Historiographers
,
&
therfore
Theodoret
(
whom
M.
Collins
citeth
)
hauing
sayd
that
the
people
continually
repeated
that
verse
,
addeth
:
Nam
Martyris
translatione
Diabolum
victum
existimarunt
,
for
they
thought
that
the
Diuel
was
ouercome
by
the
translation
of
the
Martyrs
.
Socrates
sayth
lib
.
3.
cap
.
16.
that
,
Psalmi
quos
cecinere
,
reprehensionem
Deorum
Gentilium
,
&
eorum
qui
in
idola
credebant
,
complexi
sunt
,
the
psalmes
which
they
song
did
conteyne
the
reprehension
of
the
Gods
of
the
Gentils
,
&
of
those
who
belieued
in
Idols
.
Ruffinus
,
who
liued
at
the
same
time
,
witnesseth
the
same
lib
.
2.
c
.
35.
saying
that
all
the
Church
of
Antioch
did
sing
that
verse
in
auribus
prophani
Principis
,
in
the
eares
of
that
prophane
Prince
,
for
six
miles
togeather
,
with
such
exultation
that
the
heauens
did
ring
with
the
noyse
,
and
that
Iulian
was
so
extreamly
offended
therwith
,
that
he
caused
many
of
the
Christians
to
be
apprehended
,
imprisoned
,
and
tormented
.
27.
And
amongst
the
rest
,
there
was
one
Theodorus
a
young
man
,
who
being
found
to
be
one
of
the
ring-leaders
of
that
holy
,
and
deuout
dance
,
was
tormented
a
whole
forenoone
,
with
so
great
cruelty
,
and
variety
of
tormentes
,
that
Nulla
aetas
(
sayth
Ruffinus
ibid
.
cap
.
36.
)
simile
factum
meminerit
,
no
age
hath
made
mention
of
the
like
.
Neuertheles
God
did
so
miraculously
preserue
,
&
assist
him
in
his
torments
,
that
he
continually
song
most
cheerefully
the
same
verse
,
which
he
song
the
day
before
,
wherewith
the
tormentors
were
so
astonished
that
they
set
him
free
;
and
afterwards
he
tould
Ruffinus
and
others
,
that
he
was
all
the
while
conforted
by
a
yong
man
,
who
stood
by
him
continually
,
and
wyped
the
sweat
from
him
with
a
towell
,
and
refreshed
him
with
cold
water
,
which
seemed
so
delectable
vnto
him
,
that
he
was
sorry
when
he
was
loosed
from
the
Racke
.
And
thus
did
Almighty
God
approue
al
the
honour
that
was
don
to
his
Martyrs
reliques
by
a
most
manifest
miracle
,
testifyed
by
as
many
as
write
this
story
.
28.
By
all
this
then
it
appeareth
:
first
that
the
Emperour
Gallus
translated
the
holy
Reliques
of
this
holy
Martyr
Babylas
from
Antioch
to
Daphne
,
Deo
,
sayth
S.
Chrysostome
,
ad
id
animum
ipsius
impellente
,
God
mouing
his
mind
vnto
it
.
Wherby
M.
Collins
may
see
that
it
is
no
diuellish
,
or
euill
worke
to
translate
reliques
,
as
he
would
haue
his
Reader
suppose
.
29.
Secondly
that
the
Diuell
incited
Iulian
to
remoue
again
those
holy
Reliques
to
his
own
confusion
,
because
he
acknowledged
thereby
,
that
he
was
vanquished
by
them
:
whereby
M.
Collins
may
also
see
,
how
true
it
is
which
S.
Chrysostome
sayth
,
viz.
that
the
Diuells
feare
the
shaddow
of
a
Saint
whiles
he
liueth
,
and
his
ashes
when
he
is
dead
.
30.
Thirdly
,
that
the
verse
of
the
Psalme
,
which
the
people
song
,
to
wit
,
Confundantur
omnes
qui
adorant
sculptilia
,
did
no
way
concerne
the
worship
,
and
veneration
of
holy
Images
,
but
the
adoration
of
Idols
,
to
the
confusion
,
not
only
of
Iulian
,
and
the
Gentills
,
but
also
of
the
Diuell
,
and
M.
Collins
:
for
as
that
verse
triumphantly
song
in
the
translation
of
the
Martyrs
Reliques
did
then
confound
the
Diuell
,
and
his
instruments
(
Iulian
,
and
the
Gentills
;
)
so
also
the
history
of
it
alleadged
by
M.
Collins
,
doth
now
confound
the
Diuell
and
him
,
who
by
the
Diuels
instigation
,
is
no
lesse
enemy
to
holy
Reliques
,
then
Iulian
,
and
the
Gentills
were
.
31.
Fourthly
,
that
Almighty
God
shewed
euidently
by
the
miraculous
constancy
and
patience
of
Theodorus
,
that
all
this
honour
done
to
the
holy
Martyr
,
and
to
his
Reliques
in
the
translation
of
them
,
was
most
gratefull
to
his
diuin
Maiesty
,
&
that
therefore
it
is
most
true
,
which
you
haue
heard
before
out
of
S.
Hierome
,
Honor
seruorum
redundat
ad
Dominum
,
the
honour
done
to
the
seruants
redoundeth
to
their
Lord
.
32.
Lastly
,
it
appeareth
that
M.
Collins
hath
most
shamefully
abused
,
and
peruerted
this
history
,
vrging
it
so
mangled
and
maymed
,
as
you
haue
seene
against
the
translation
,
and
worship
of
Reliques
;
whereas
being
wholy
,
and
truly
related
,
it
doth
notably
confirme
the
same
.
Iudg
then
good
Reader
,
what
consciene
,
and
honesty
there
is
in
this
man
.
33.
And
that
the
same
may
yet
more
manifestly
appeare
,
I
cannot
omit
to
obserue
by
the
way
,
how
he
seeketh
to
delude
his
Reader
with
the
quotation
of
S.
Chrysostome
for
this
history
of
S.
Babylas
,
as
if
that
holy
Father
had
applyed
it
,
as
he
(
I
meane
M.
Collins
)
doth
against
the
vse
of
translation
or
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
;
whereas
he
r●counteth
it
purposely
to
shew
the
wonderfull
vertue
,
and
power
of
Gods
Saints
,
and
their
Reliques
,
to
proue
therby
that
Christ
(
whose
seruants
they
are
)
is
God
;
so
as
S.
Chrysostome
is
so
farre
from
denying
and
impugning
the
vertue
of
holy
Reliques
,
that
he
maketh
the
same
to
be
an
argument
of
Christs
diuinity
;
besides
that
he
also
giueth
so
cleare
,
and
ample
testimony
elswhere
,
of
the
spiritual
benefits
which
the
faythfull
,
&
deuout
Christians
receaue
by
holy
Reliques
,
that
I
thinke
good
to
relate
some
part
of
it
heer
,
vpon
this
occasion
.
34.
In
his
sermon
vpon
the
feast
of
S.
Ignatius
(
wherin
he
treateth
of
the
solemne
translation
of
his
body
from
Rome
,
where
he
was
martyred
,
to
Antioch
whereof
he
had
beene
Bishop
)
he
sayth
thus
:
All
the
Cittyes
(
sayth
he
)
in
the
way
receauing
the
Saint
,
{αβγδ}
&c.
Ex
editione
Sauelliana
.
and
carrying
him
on
their
shoulders
,
accompanied
him
to
Antioch
,
celebrating
the
praise
of
the
crowned
Martyr
,
and
deryding
the
Diuell
,
whose
craft
had
succeeded
very
contrary
to
his
expectation
;
and
then
truly
the
Saint
was
beneficiall
to
all
those
cittyes
,
and
hath
enriched
this
Countrey
,
euen
vntill
this
day
,
non
aliter
quam
thesaurus
quidam
perpetuus
&c.
no
other
wayes
then
as
a
certaine
perpetuall
Treasure
,
which
is
dayly
spent
,
but
neuer
exhaust
,
or
consumed
:
so
also
this
blessed
Ignatius
doth
blesse
all
those
that
come
vnto
him
,
and
sendeth
them
home
full
of
confidence
,
alacrity
,
and
comfort
;
and
therefore
wee
do
repayre
vnto
him
not
only
now
,
but
also
euery
day
,
receiuing
of
him
spirituall
benefit
;
for
whosoeuer
cometh
to
him
with
fayth
,
is
benefitted
exceedingly
;
for
not
only
the
bodyes
of
Saints
,
{αβγδ}
&c.
Ex
Editione
Sauelliana
.
but
also
their
very
Tombes
,
and
monuments
,
are
replenished
with
spirituall
grace
.
Thus
S.
Chrysostome
,
and
then
hauing
confirmed
this
with
the
Example
of
Elizaeus
the
Prophet
,
whose
bones
reuiued
a
dead
body
which
was
cast
by
chaunce
into
his
sepulcher
4.
Reg
.
cap
.
13.
he
sayth
further
thus
:
And
much
the
rather
this
should
be
done
now
at
this
tyme
,
{αβγδ}
&c.
Ex
editione
Sauelliana
.
when
the
grace
of
God
is
more
aboundant
,
and
the
force
of
the
spirit
greater
:
so
as
if
any
do
touch
but
the
tombe
,
or
coffin
,
he
may
receaue
therby
great
vertue
;
and
therefore
God
hath
graunted
vs
the
vse
of
the
Reliques
of
Saints
,
that
he
may
bring
vs
to
him
by
the
imitation
of
them
,
&
that
they
may
be
to
vs
,
as
it
were
,
a
certaine
hauen
and
a
conuenient
comfort
of
those
euills
,
which
doe
continually
afflict
vs.
Wherfore
I
exhort
you
all
(
brethren
)
if
any
of
you
be
pressed
with
any
grief
of
mind
or
sicknes
of
body
,
or
other
calamity
,
that
he
come
hither
with
fayth
(
or
confidence
)
wherby
he
may
be
freed
from
the
same
and
returne
with
great
Ioy
,
yea
and
by
the
very
sight
thereof
,
he
may
haue
his
conscience
more
peacable
,
and
quyet
.
So
sayth
this
holy
and
auncient
Father
.
35.
Doth
this
please
you
M.
Collins
?
Is
this
man
(
as
you
said
to
me
ere
whyle
of
S.
Ambrose
)
like
to
countenance
and
patronyze
you
in
impugning
holy
reliques
?
and
here
it
is
also
to
be
noted
,
that
this
solemne
translation
of
S.
Ignatius
,
which
S.
Chrysostome
recounteth
,
was
made
in
the
very
infancy
,
as
I
may
say
,
of
the
primitiue
Church
,
to
wit
,
in
the
tyme
of
Traian
the
Emperour
within
nyne
or
ten
yeares
after
the
death
of
S.
Iohn
the
Euangelist
,
and
presently
after
the
Martyrdome
of
this
holy
Bishop
,
who
(
as
S.
Chrysostome
testifyeth
in
this
same
oration
)
conuersed
with
the
Apostles
,
and
was
ordayned
by
S.
Peter
himselfe
to
be
his
successour
in
Antioch
.
Besides
that
,
he
himselfe
witnesseth
in
his
Epist.
ad
Smyrnaeos
,
that
he
knew
our
Sauiour
Christ
,
both
befor
&
after
his
resurrection
;
wherby
it
appeareth
that
the
solemn
,
&
deuout
translation
of
holy
Reliques
is
no
late
inuention
,
but
deryued
from
the
Apostles
tyme
to
ours
;
whereof
I
hope
M.
Collins
cannot
desire
a
more
substantiall
witnes
then
this
holy
Father
,
alleadged
by
himselfe
,
who
you
see
doth
not
only
testify
the
sayd
translation
,
but
also
the
deuout
manner
of
it
,
and
the
spirituall
benefits
,
which
did
redound
thereof
,
as
wel
to
the
Cittyes
by
the
way
,
as
also
to
Antioch
it selfe
,
where
they
were
reserued
:
and
by
the
same
occasion
he
doth
also
manifest
his
owne
beliefe
concerning
the
spirituall
graces
,
and
benefits
,
which
faythful
&
deuout
Christians
do
ordinarily
receaue
by
the
holy
bodyes
and
Reliques
of
Saints
,
yea
,
by
their
very
tombes
&
monuments
,
and
therefore
seriously
exhorteth
his
Auditors
to
haue
recourse
thereto
.
36.
Now
then
,
to
conclude
concerning
S.
Chrysostome
,
and
the
translation
of
S.
Babylas
(
from
the
which
I
haue
somewhat
digressed
)
I
may
well
say
now
to
M.
Collins
,
Obmutesce
,
and
bid
him
be
as
silent
,
and
dumbe
,
as
Iulians
Diuell
was
at
Daphne
,
by
the
vertue
of
S.
Babylas
his
Reliques
,
which
(
as
you
haue
heard
out
of
S.
Chrysostome
)
so
stopt
his
mouth
,
that
he
was
as
dumbe
as
a
stone
;
for
what
can
Collins
say
to
defend
or
excuse
such
manifest
,
and
palpable
falsity
,
to
wit
,
his
lame
,
&
corrupt
allegation
of
the
history
,
his
absurd
and
false
application
of
it
,
and
his
most
fraudulent
quotation
of
S.
Chrysostome
,
who
you
see
vrgeth
,
&
proueth
directly
the
admirable
vertue
of
Holy
Reliques
,
euen
by
the
same
history
of
S.
Babylas
,
for
the
which
Collins
cyteth
him
against
Reliques
.
But
let
vs
now
heare
what
followeth
.
37.
After
this
M.
Collins
telleth
vs
of
a
woman
called
Lucilla
,
a
factious
Dame
,
&
special
patronesse
of
the
Donatists
,
of
whom
he
sayth
,
Optatus
recounteth
,
that
she
was
so
wicked
,
that
she
would
not
receaue
the
Sacrament
of
our
Lords
body
,
and
bloud
vnlesse
she
had
kissed
the
Reliques
of
a
certaine
Martyr
that
morning
,
if
at
least
a
Martyr
,
sayth
Optatus
:
Yet
you
are
(
sayth
M.
Collins
)
for
kissing
them
very
definitiuely
in
your
number
24.
And
if
it
be
lawfull
to
kisse
them
,
why
not
also
to
beginne
the
Communion
with
such
a
seruice
?
And
may
not
we
say
of
your
Martyrs
,
as
Optatus
doth
of
hers
(
of
Lucilla's
I
meane
)
si
tamen
Martyres
,
if
at
least
they
be
Martyrs
,
eyther
your
ancient
,
or
your
moderne
?
But
Optatus
mislikes
this
doting
vpon
Martyrs
Reliques
though
true
Martyrs
,
as
the
place
sheweth
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
wherin
there
is
notable
fraud
,
and
a
great
deale
of
folly
:
but
I
omit
the
folly
,
to
say
somewhat
briefly
of
the
fraud
.
38.
You
see
,
he
sayth
,
that
Lucilla
vsed
to
kisse
the
Reliques
of
a
Martyr
euery
morning
,
before
she
receaued
the
Blessed
Sacrament
of
the
Eucharist
,
and
he
vrgeth
it
very
much
against
me
,
because
I
am
,
as
he
sayth
,
for
kissing
Reliques
very
definitiuely
.
The
truth
is
,
that
Optatus
sayth
,
that
Lucilla
(
who
was
a
most
wicked
Schismatike
,
and
therfore
like
inough
to
swarue
also
from
the
customs
of
true
Catholiks
in
many
things
)
vsed
alwayes
before
she
communicated
,
to
kisse
a
bon
of
a
dead
man
,
which
no
doubt
as
she
vsed
it
,
was
a
most
ridiculous
,
and
superstitious
ceremony
,
&
was
taught
her
by
Donatus
the
first
Author
of
the
Donatistes
schisme
and
heresy
,
of
whome
we
read
in
Balsamons
Commentary
vpon
the
Councell
of
Carthage
cap
.
61.
that
he
did
hould
,
and
teach
that
no
man
could
be
partaker
of
the
diuine
Mysteries
,
except
he
first
held
a
bone
in
his
hand
,
and
saluted
it
;
which
doctrine
of
his
she
vndoubtedly
practised
before
she
communicated
,
in
kissing
the
bone
of
some
dead
man
,
whome
the
Donatists
held
for
a
Martyr
,
though
perhaps
he
was
none
,
at
least
nondum
vindicati
,
sayth
Optatus
,
not
so
approued
to
be
.
39.
Therefore
this
being
a
most
superstitious
act
,
it
was
worthily
noted
,
and
deryded
by
Optatus
;
but
what
proueth
this
against
the
kissing
of
Reliques
?
Yes
sayth
M.
Collins
,
for
if
it
be
lawfull
to
kisse
them
,
why
not
also
to
begin
the
Communion
with
such
a
seruice
?
Wherto
I
answere
,
that
albeit
there
is
no
doubt
,
but
that
we
may
lawfully
kisse
Reliques
before
we
communicate
,
yet
to
thinke
that
the
worthy
receauing
of
the
diuine
misteryes
dependeth
thereon
(
as
no
doubt
she
did
,
according
to
the
doctrine
of
her
Maister
Donatus
)
is
,
not
only
ridiculous
,
and
superstitious
,
but
also
impious
;
as
the
like
may
also
be
sayd
of
other
good
works
,
if
they
should
be
done
in
the
same
manner
.
40.
As
for
example
,
if
any
man
would
not
otherwayes
receaue
the
blessed
Sacrament
,
except
he
had
first
giuen
almes
,
with
this
conceit
that
the
worthy
receauing
therof
depended
vpon
the
giuing
of
that
almes
,
this
act
no
doubt
should
be
superstitious
,
and
vnlawfull
:
so
as
M.
Collins
hath
heerein
notably
peruerted
the
sense
and
meaning
of
Optatus
,
to
the
end
he
might
say
somewhat
with
more
shew
of
probability
against
the
kissing
of
Reliques
;
because
I
do
approue
the
same
in
the
9.
Chapter
of
my
Adioynder
num
.
24.
vpon
occasion
of
certaine
obiections
,
which
Vigilantius
made
to
Catholiks
in
S.
Hieromes
tyme
,
saying
thus
:
We
see
you
(
sayth
Vigilantius
)
according
to
the
custome
of
the
Gentills
&c.
euery
where
kisse
,
and
adore
,
I
know
not
what
little
dust
carryed
in
a
little
vessell
,
and
lapt
in
a
pretious
linnen
cloath
.
Thus
wrote
Vigilantius
.
Whereupon
I
noted
,
that
it
appeared
euidently
by
the
obiection
of
Vigilantius
,
that
the
common
custome
of
the
faythfull
was
at
that
tyme
to
do
corporall
reuerence
to
Reliques
,
not
only
by
kissing
them
,
but
also
by
inclyning
,
or
bowing
downe
the
body
vnto
them
,
which
the
word
adoration
signifyeth
,
and
S.
Hierome
denyeth
it
not
,
though
he
denyeth
the
inference
of
Idolatry
,
that
Vigilantius
made
theron
.
41.
Thus
indeed
I
said
then
in
the
24.
number
now
cyted
by
M.
Collins
,
out
of
tyme
,
and
place
;
for
where
I
sayd
it
,
he
passed
it
ouer
with
silence
,
because
he
durst
not
vndertake
to
answere
that
which
I
alleadged
togeather
with
it
out
of
S.
Hierome
against
Vigilantius
concerning
the
worship
of
Reliques
,
&
therfore
he
fraudulently
dissembled
the
whole
,
as
you
saw
before
in
the
the
last
Chapter
num
.
29.30
:
&
35.
Neither
doth
he
tell
heer
what
I
sayd
in
particuler
concerning
the
kissing
of
reliques
,
but
only
sayth
in
generall
tearmes
,
that
I
am
for
the
kissing
of
Reliques
difinitiuely
in
the
24.
numb
.
42.
And
much
lesse
will
he
seeme
to
remember
what
I
alleadged
to
the
same
purpose
in
the
seauenth
Chapter
of
my
Adioynder
num
.
9.
out
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
,
who
in
his
oration
vpon
S.
Theodore
the
Martyr
speaking
of
the
feruent
deuotion
of
the
people
in
seeking
to
approach
to
the
tomb
of
that
holy
Martyr
,
appealeth
to
their
owne
experience
,
and
knowledge
,
how
happy
they
did
thinke
themselues
,
when
they
could
haue
the
good
fortune
to
touch
his
Reliques
,
and
how
they
imbraced
,
&
kissed
them
,
&
applyed
them
to
their
eyes
,
eares
,
and
all
the
instruments
of
their
senses
,
to
all
which
M.
Collins
had
not
a
word
to
say
,
where
I
alleadged
it
,
but
did
let
it
slip
without
answere
,
togeather
with
the
whole
place
of
S.
Gregory
Nissen
;
and
now
belike
he
thinketh
he
hath
sufficiently
confuted
it
by
this
example
,
which
neuerthelesse
you
see
doth
make
no
more
against
the
kissing
of
Reliques
,
then
against
any
other
good
worke
,
done
in
the
same
manner
and
vpon
the
like
consideration
.
43.
Yea
but
Optatus
,
as
M.
Collins
sayth
,
mislikes
this
doting
on
martyrs
reliques
,
though
true
Martyrs
;
so
indeed
sayth
M.
Collins
,
and
affirmeth
also
that
the
place
sheweth
it
;
wherein
he
belyeth
Optatus
manifestly
,
who
blameth
Lucilla
only
because
she
did
praeponere
calici
salutarios
cuiusdam
hominis
mortu●
,
&
si
Martyris
,
sed
necdum
vindicati
,
that
is
to
say
,
she
preferred
before
the
holy
cup
,
the
bone
of
a
certaine
dead
man
,
who
if
he
were
a
Martyr
,
yet
was
not
approued
so
to
be
;
wherupon
it
may
well
be
gathered
that
Optatus
accused
her
,
to
valew
and
esteeme
more
the
kissing
of
that
bone
,
then
the
holy
Communion
;
and
that
he
signifyed
the
same
by
the
word
praeponere
,
which
doth
commonly
signify
to
preferre
in
worth
or
dignity
;
which
also
is
the
more
probable
in
this
place
,
because
so
the
sense
is
conforme
to
the
foresayd
doctrine
of
her
Maister
Donatus
,
who
placed
the
fruit
of
receauing
the
holy
misteryes
in
that
,
or
such
a
Ceremony
.
44.
And
albeit
praeponere
should
be
taken
only
to
set
before
in
order
or
place
,
as
that
she
did
it
first
,
before
she
communicated
,
yet
it
maketh
nothing
for
M.
Collins
,
seeing
that
Optatus
doth
not
speake
at
all
of
a
true
approued
Martyr
,
but
only
giueth
to
vnderstand
,
that
her
fault
was
the
greater
,
because
she
vsed
that
ceremony
to
a
bone
of
one
that
either
was
no
Martyr
,
or
at
least
not
receaued
,
and
approued
for
a
Martyr
;
as
who
would
say
,
that
her
superstition
had
beene
yet
more
tollerable
if
she
had
done
it
to
a
Relique
of
a
true
,
and
vnapproued
Martyr
.
And
therefore
M.
Collins
hath
not
only
notably
peruerted
the
meaning
and
sense
of
Optatus
;
but
also
belyed
his
text
,
affirming
that
this
place
sheweth
that
he
misliketh
the
kissing
of
true
Martyrs
reliques
,
when
neuertheles
he
doth
not
speake
of
a
true
Martyr
,
but
only
of
a
dead
man
(
as
he
calleth
him
)
who
was
eyther
no
Martyr
,
or
at
least
an
vncertaine
Martyr
,
not
receaued
and
approued
to
be
honoured
in
the
Church
.
45.
I
omit
his
notable
folly
,
in
asking
by
the
way
,
whether
he
may
not
say
of
our
martyrs
both
ancient
,
and
moderne
,
as
Optatus
sayd
of
Lacilla's
martyr
,
to
wit
,
sitamen
martyres
,
for
howsoeuer
it
may
please
him
to
cal
in
question
our
modern
matyrs
,
yet
I
see
not
why
he
should
doubt
of
our
ancient
Martyrs
,
seeing
we
haue
no
other
ancient
martyrs
thē
such
as
all
the
Church
alloweth
aswell
as
we
,
and
of
whose
Martyrdome
no
true
Christian
hath
hitherto
doubted
:
but
I
say
,
I
omit
this
for
a
foolery
,
not
worthy
of
further
examination
,
that
I
may
enlarge
my self
somewhat
(
as
I
shal
be
forced
to
do
)
to
discouer
his
notable
falsehood
in
an
obiection
which
he
maketh
out
of
S.
Gregory
lib
.
3.
Registr
.
Ep.
ad
Constant
.
August
.
Thus
then
he
saith
of
S.
Gregory
.
46.
It
amazed
him
to
heare
that
dead
bodyes
should
be
digged
vp
againe
or
,
as
the
fashion
before
had
beene
(
S.
Augustine
so
witnessing
,
S.
Hierome
,
and
diuers
more
)
that
the
fragments
of
Martyrs
should
be
carryed
vp
and
downe
,
vnder
pretence
of
deuotion
,
but
indeed
for
sale
,
or
for
gaze
of
idle
people
.
Thus
saith
M.
Collins
of
S.
Gregory
,
and
by
the
way
also
of
S.
Augustine
,
and
S.
Hierome
with
diuers
more
.
And
therefore
first
to
speake
of
that
which
he
alleadgeth
out
of
S.
Gregory
,
it
is
very
true
,
that
S.
Gregory
sayth
,
in
that
epistle
;
that
he
wondred
much
at
a
custome
which
he
heard
was
in
Greece
(
although
he
could
scant
beleeue
it
)
to
take
vp
the
bones
of
Saints
.
And
the
cause
of
this
his
wonder
was
,
for
that
certayn
greeke
monks
who
had
been
at
Rome
.
2.
yeares
before
,
digged
vp
in
the
night
dead
mens
bodyes
in
a
feild
neere
to
S.
Pauls
Church
,
and
hid
the
bones
thereof
vntill
they
should
depart
,
and
being
examined
after
to
what
end
they
did
it
,
they
confessed
,
that
they
meant
to
carry
them
to
Greece
at
their
returne
for
the
reliques
of
Saints
.
Wherupon
S.
Gregory
saith
,
that
he
became
more
doubtful
thē
before
,
whether
it
was
true
,
which
was
reported
,
that
the
Greekes
did
indeed
take
vp
the
bones
of
Saints
,
or
that
the
report
only
grew
of
the
imposture
of
such
as
the
aforesaid
monks
;
who
meant
to
haue
giuen
abroad
the
bones
of
ordinary
dead
men
,
for
the
true
bones
,
and
reliques
of
Saints
.
47.
To
this
effect
doth
S.
Gregory
speak
of
this
matter
,
worthily
dislyking
,
and
reprehending
that
abuse
of
the
Grecians
(
if
it
were
true
)
that
the
bones
of
Saints
should
be
ordinarily
taken
vp
,
and
distributed
abroad
at
euery
mans
pleasure
,
which
must
needes
open
the
way
to
a
farre
greater
abuse
,
and
giue
occasion
to
euill
disposed
persons
,
to
deceiue
the
people
with
counterfayt
,
and
false
reliques
,
in
which
respect
it
is
not
conuenient
,
neyther
euer
was
permitted
in
the
Roman
Church
,
that
the
tombes
or
graues
of
Saints
should
be
opened
,
nor
their
reliques
taken
out
,
without
iust
cause
,
and
the
licence
of
the
Bishops
,
or
other
Ecclesiasticall
magistrates
;
therefore
that
which
S.
Gregory
misliked
,
and
reproued
concerning
the
digging
vp
of
Sains
bones
,
was
no
other
,
but
the
ordinary
custome
of
it
,
without
the
licence
and
warrant
of
Superiors
,
and
without
some
iust
occasion
;
for
S.
Gregory
was
so
far
from
dissallowing
it
,
when
it
was
done
vpon
vrgent
,
and
iust
cause
,
with
the
leaue
of
Superiors
,
that
he
practised
the
same
himself
,
both
giuing
leaue
to
others
to
do
it
,
and
sending
holy
reliques
himselfe
to
dyuers
persons
and
places
.
48.
This
appeareth
in
diuers
epistles
of
his
,
as
in
the
11.
Epistle
of
his
seauenth
booke
Indict
.
2.
wherein
he
gaue
order
to
seauen
Bishops
to
giue
satisfaction
to
a
noble
man
called
George
,
who
had
required
leaue
of
him
to
haue
some
Reliques
of
such
holy
Martyrs
as
were
buryed
in
their
diocesses
,
with
promise
to
build
a
Church
in
their
honour
,
at
his
owne
charges
;
also
ep
.
73.
lib
.
9.
Indict
.
4.
he
gaue
the
like
order
to
the
Bishop
of
Hidruntum
,
to
giue
some
Reliques
of
the
body
of
S.
Leontius
(
which
was
buryed
in
his
diocesse
)
to
the
Abbot
of
the
Monastery
of
S.
Leontius
,
because
certain
Reliques
of
the
sayd
Saint
had
been
stolne
out
of
that
Monastery
.
Also
epist.
50.
l
5.
Indict
.
14.
he
wrote
to
Palladius
Bishop
of
Xaintonges
in
France
,
that
he
sent
him
the
reliques
of
S.
Peter
,
S.
Paul
,
S.
Laurence
,
and
S.
Pancrace
,
because
the
sayd
Bishop
had
built
a
Church
and
altars
in
honour
of
them
.
49.
In
like
manner
ep
.
31.
lib
.
12.
Indict
.
7.
it
appeareth
that
S.
Augustine
our
Apostle
being
in
England
,
and
finding
that
the
people
were
perswaded
,
that
the
body
of
S.
Sixtus
the
Martyr
was
there
(
which
he
thought
altogeather
vnprobable
)
required
of
Pope
Gregory
to
send
him
some
vndoubted
reliques
of
S.
Sixus
,
which
he
did
with
this
charge
,
that
if
there
were
no
miracles
don
at
that
body
,
which
was
there
honoured
for
a
Martyrs
body
,
neither
yet
that
any
of
the
ancienter
sort
could
testify
that
they
had
heard
of
his
martyrdome
by
their
parents
,
then
the
place
where
the
body
lay
should
be
stopped
vp
,
&
the
reliques
which
he
sent
,
should
be
placed
a
part
by
themselues
,
Nec
permittatur
populus
,
sayth
he
,
certum
deserere
,
&
incertum
venerari
;
&
let
not
the
people
be
suffered
to
leaue
that
which
is
certaine
,
to
worship
that
which
is
vncertaine
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
to
S.
Augustine
the
first
Apostle
of
our
English
nation
,
by
whom
we
were
conuerted
from
Paganisme
to
the
Christian
fayth
.
50.
And
this
I
wish
M.
Collins
to
note
for
three
causes
:
the
first
,
that
he
may
see
S.
Gregoryes
practise
of
sending
reliques
,
so
far
as
from
Rome
to
England
,
to
be
there
held
in
veneration
:
the
second
,
that
he
may
also
obserue
what
care
as
well
S.
Gregory
as
S.
Augustin
had
to
preserue
the
people
from
the
worshipping
of
false
Reliques
,
which
care
is
still
had
in
the
Catholike
Church
,
as
shal
appeare
after
a
whyle
:
the
third
,
that
we
receaued
in
our
Countrey
the
doctrine
,
and
practise
of
worshipping
holy
Reliques
,
togeather
with
the
knowledge
of
Christ
,
and
the
first
rudiments
of
our
Christian
fayth
,
now
more
then
a
thousand
yeares
ago
.
51.
And
he
that
desireth
to
see
more
aboundant
testimony
of
S.
Gregoryes
fayth
,
&
practise
,
concerning
this
point
,
let
him
read
his
Epistle
51.
lib
.
5.
Indict
.
14.
ep
.
12.
lib
.
7.
Indict
.
2.
ep
.
86.
87.
&
88.
lib
.
7.
Indict
.
2.
&
epist.
62.
lib
.
8.
Indict
.
3.
to
omit
diuers
others
,
by
all
which
it
appeareth
,
that
either
he
himselfe
translated
and
sent
Reliques
,
or
els
gaue
leaue
to
others
to
translate
or
send
them
for
the
dedication
,
and
consecration
of
Oratoryes
,
or
Churches
,
with
order
that
they
should
be
layd
vp
,
and
kept
cum
reuerentia
,
&
debito
honore
,
with
reuerence
,
&
due
honour
,
as
he
wrote
to
Brunechilda
Queene
of
France
concerning
the
Reliques
of
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
,
which
he
sent
her
at
her
request
.
And
this
custome
of
dedicating
,
or
consecrating
Churches
with
the
Reliques
of
Saints
,
was
obserued
not
only
in
S.
Gregoryes
tyme
(
as
it
hath
beene
euer
since
)
but
in
the
tyme
also
of
S.
Ambrose
,
who
sent
part
of
the
reliques
of
SS.
Geruasius
and
Protasius
to
diuers
of
his
friends
abroad
,
by
the
occasion
whereof
Churches
were
built
,
&
dedicated
to
those
Saints
in
diuers
Countryes
,
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
.
52.
But
to
shew
the
extraordinary
respect
,
reuerence
,
and
deuotion
which
S.
Gregory
bare
,
and
thought
to
be
due
to
holy
reliques
,
there
can
be
no
greater
testimony
then
that
very
Epistle
of
his
to
Constantia
the
Empresse
,
out
of
which
Maister
Collins
hath
picked
this
scrapp
,
whereof
I
haue
hither
to
treated
;
and
therefore
,
to
the
end
you
may
see
his
bad
Conscience
,
and
wilfull
blyndenes
,
I
will
take
a
little
paynes
to
giue
you
the
substance
of
the
whole
.
This
Empresse
being
to
build
a
Church
in
the
honour
of
S.
Paul
,
wrote
to
S.
Gregory
to
send
her
his
head
,
or
els
some
part
of
his
body
,
to
which
he
answered
,
that
he
nei
-
could
nor
durst
do
it
,
whereof
he
gaue
this
reason
;
because
(
saith
he
)
the
bodyes
of
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
the
Apostles
do
shyne
with
so
many
miracles
,
&
terrours
in
their
Churches
,
that
none
can
come
so
much
as
to
pray
there
,
without
great
feare
;
and
of
this
he
giueth
diuers
examples
;
first
of
his
predecessour
,
who
going
about
to
chaunge
the
syluer
which
was
ouer
the
most
holy
body
of
S.
Peter
(
at
the
least
15.
foote
from
it
)
was
not
a
little
terrifyed
with
a
signe
or
miraculous
sight
which
appeared
vnto
him
.
Sed
&
ego
(
sayth
he
)
aliquid
similiter
&c.
And
I
also
was
desirous
to
mend
some
thing
about
the
most
sacred
body
of
S.
Paul
,
and
for
that
it
was
necessary
to
digge
some
.
what
deep
neere
vnto
the
tombe
;
he
who
had
charge
of
the
place
,
found
there
certaine
bones
somewhat
separate
from
the
tomb
,
and
because
he
presumed
to
take
them
vp
,
and
to
remoue
them
to
another
place
,
he
dyed
suddenly
,
besydes
that
other
dolefull
signes
,
or
spectacles
also
appeared
there
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
of
his
owne
experience
.
53.
And
hauing
after
related
the
like
miraculous
punishment
inflicted
by
Almighty
God
vpon
diuers
who
presuming
to
see
the
body
of
S.
Laurence
,
died
all
with
in
tenne
dayes
after
,
he
addeth
,
that
the
custome
was
at
Rome
,
when
reliques
were
to
be
giuen
,
not
to
touch
the
Saints
bodyes
,
but
only
to
apply
a
handkerchiffe
therto
,
and
to
keepe
yt
,
cum
debita
veneratione
,
with
due
veneration
,
in
the
Church
which
was
to
be
dedicated
,
Et
tantae
(
saith
S.
Gregory
)
per
hoc
ibidem
virtutes
fiunt
,
ac
si
illuc
illorum
corpora
specialiter
deserantur
;
and
as
great
miracles
are
done
thereby
,
as
if
the
Saints
bodyes
were
speically
carryed
thither
;
whereupon
it
hapned
(
saith
he
also
further
)
that
in
the
tyme
of
Pope
Leo
of
happy
memory
(
as
we
haue
receiued
by
tradition
from
our
fore
fathers
)
he
did
cut
in
sunder
such
a
hand-cherchiffe
with
a
payre
of
Cyzers
for
the
satisfaction
of
certaine
Grecians
who
doubted
of
such
reliques
,
and
there
issued
bloud
out
of
it
;
for
amongst
the
Romans
,
&
in
all
the
East
parts
,
it
is
held
to
be
altogeather
intollerable
,
and
sacrilegious
to
touch
the
bodyes
of
Saints
;
and
if
any
presume
to
do
it
,
Certum
est
,
quia
haec
temeritas
impunita
nullo
modo
remanebit
:
it
is
certaine
that
their
temerity
shall
not
remaine
vnpunished
.
54.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
,
and
concludeth
vpon
these
premisses
,
that
he
therfore
meruaileth
very
much
,
and
can
scantly
belieue
it
,
that
the
Grecians
had
such
a
custome
as
was
reported
,
to
take
vp
the
bones
of
Saints
;
and
then
vpon
this
occasion
he
recounteth
that
which
I
haue
layd
downe
before
,
concerning
the
Greeke
Monkes
,
who
digged
vp
dead
mens
bones
to
carry
into
Greece
for
reliques
.
By
all
which
it
is
euident
,
that
albeit
he
blameth
and
greatly
disliketh
the
abuse
of
the
sayd
Greeke
Monks
(
which
indeed
was
detestable
,
and
therefore
worthy
to
be
blamed
,
&
●euerely
punished
)
yet
he
acknowledgeth
〈◇〉
manifestly
the
honour
due
to
reliques
,
〈◇〉
if
M.
Collins
did
read
the
Epistle
it selfe
〈◇〉
not
take
the
obiection
out
of
some
other
mans
note-booke
without
seeing
the
circumstances
)
he
sheweth
himselfe
to
a
a
man
of
no
conscience
,
or
honesty
,
to
obiect
it
against
the
veneration
of
reliques
,
seeing
it
doth
so
testify
,
and
proue
the
holynes
of
them
,
that
it
may
rather
terrify
any
man
from
touching
them
,
for
the
reuerent
respect
due
vnto
them
,
then
moue
him
to
reiect
or
disesteeme
them
.
55.
But
M.
Collins
will
say
perhaps
,
that
he
alleadgeth
this
to
prooue
two
thinges
,
the
one
,
That
the
fragments
of
Martyrs
are
not
to
be
carryed
vp
&
downe
vnder
pretence
of
deuotion
,
for
sale
,
or
for
gaze
of
idle
people
(
for
so
indeed
he
sayth
;
)
the
other
,
that
dead
bodyes
should
not
be
digged
vp
againe
,
or
translated
:
both
which
points
,
he
will
say
this
Epistle
proueth
directly
;
whereto
I
answere
,
that
if
he
did
acknowledge
the
truth
of
S.
Gregoryes
doctrine
in
this
Epistle
,
concerning
the
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
he
might
with
more
reason
allea●ge
this
other
,
as
he
doth
;
to
proue
that
they
should
not
be
translated
or
digged
vp
;
but
seeing
he
maketh
vse
of
this
only
,
which
may
seeme
to
serue
his
purpose
;
and
not
only
condemneth
the
other
,
but
also
craftily
concealeth
it
(
to
make
his
Reader
belieue
,
that
S.
Grego●y
disaloweth
the
digging
vp
of
Saints
bones
,
because
he
condemneth
the
veneration
of
them
)
this
,
I
say
,
is
an
intollerable
fraud
,
and
much
the
more
because
the
circumstances
(
which
he
fraudulently
dissembleth
)
being
considered
,
do
plainely
shew
,
that
al
that
which
he
alleadgeth
is
nothing
to
the
purpose
.
56.
For
as
for
the
first
of
the
two
points
for
which
he
produceth
this
testimony
(
to
wit
to
proue
that
the
reliques
of
Martyrs
,
are
not
to
be
carryed
about
for
sale
vnder
pretence
of
deuotion
)
it
maketh
nothing
at
all
against
vs
,
who
condemne
the
same
as
much
,
or
more
then
he
,
a●
he
may
see
by
the
Canons
of
the
Catholike
Church
,
namely
the
62.
Canon
of
the
great
Councell
of
Lateran
,
where
it
is
expresly
forbidden
to
sell
holy
reliques
,
as
also
to
expose
new
reliques
to
veneration
except
they
be
first
approued
by
the
Authority
of
the
Pope
.
And
this
is
also
expresly
noted
by
all
the
Canonists
,
as
may
be
seene
in
Panormit
.
cap
.
Cum
ex
eo
num
.
1.
Rub
.
de
reliquijs
&
vener
.
Hostien
,
lib
3.
Rubr
.
de
reliquijs
.
Syluest
.
verb
.
Reliquiae
&
to
omit
others
,
Nauar
.
in
sum
.
cap
.
17.
num
.
169.
57.
Finally
the
Councel
of
Trent
hath
had
such
care
to
preuent
,
and
remedy
all
such
abuses
concerning
holy
reliques
,
that
they
haue
giuen
very
strict
charg
&
commandement
sess
.
25.
to
all
Bishops
to
vse
all
diligence
to
that
end
,
and
in
questions
,
or
cases
of
doubt
or
difficulty
to
vse
the
mature
aduise
,
not
only
of
Deuines
,
but
also
(
if
need
require
)
of
the
Metropolitans
and
Prouinciall
Councells
,
and
yet
so
,
that
no
new
thing
,
or
custome
that
hath
not
beene
vsed
in
the
Church
before
shal
be
introduced
without
the
consent
of
the
Sea
Apostolik
:
such
care
hath
the
Catholike
Church
to
auoyd
all
inconueniences
,
&
abuses
which
may
arise
either
by
the
inordinate
zeale
of
ignorant
people
,
or
by
the
malice
of
wicked
men
.
And
therefore
if
M.
Collins
will
condemne
the
vse
and
worship
of
holy
reliques
,
because
they
haue
beene
,
or
may
be
abused
,
he
sheweth
himselfe
to
be
very
absurd
,
and
sottish
;
for
he
may
by
the
same
reason
condemne
whatsoeuer
is
good
,
and
holy
in
the
Church
of
God
;
for
there
is
nothing
which
is
vsed
,
but
it
may
be
,
&
hath
been
at
one
tyme
or
other
abused
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
this
point
.
58.
As
for
the
other
point
which
M.
Collins
seeketh
to
proue
by
this
epistle
(
to
wit
that
the
bones
of
Saints
,
are
not
to
be
digged
vp
or
translated
)
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
S.
Gregory
affirmeth
it
specially
concerning
those
bodyes
of
the
Apostles
S.
Peter
,
and
S.
Paul
,
and
of
S.
Laurence
,
because
Almighty
God
had
shewed
by
euident
signes
,
and
miracles
,
that
it
was
not
his
will
they
should
be
remoued
or
touched
,
as
you
haue
heard
,
which
S.
Gregory
sheweth
also
afterwardes
more
manifestly
,
saying
;
that
very
many
Christians
came
to
Rome
from
the
Easts
parts
(
when
the
Apostles
were
martyred
)
to
demand
their
bodyes
,
as
of
their
Cittizens
,
or
Countreymen
,
and
that
going
to
the
place
where
they
were
buryed
called
Catacumbas
,
two
myles
out
of
Rome
,
they
vsed
al
their
endeauour
to
carry
them
away
,
and
that
they
were
so
terrifyed
with
extraordinary
thunder
,
and
lightning
,
that
they
gaue
it
ouer
,
and
presumed
not
to
attempt
it
further
;
whereupon
(
sayth
S.
Gregory
)
Exuntes
Romani
,
eorum
corpora
qui
hoc
ex
Domini
pietate
meruerunt
,
leuauerunt
,
&
in
locis
quibus
nunc
condita
sunt
,
posuerunt
,
The
Romans
who
deserued
it
through
our
Lords
piety
,
went
forth
,
and
tooke
vp
their
bodyes
,
and
placed
them
wher
they
are
now
buryed
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
.
59.
Wherin
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
those
holy
bodyes
being
first
buryed
in
Catacumbas
,
two
myles
out
of
Rome
,
were
taken
vp
,
and
translated
from
thence
into
Rome
by
the
Romans
,
which
could
not
haue
beene
lawfully
done
,
if
it
were
absolutly
vnlawful
to
take
vp
and
translate
Saints
bodyes
.
But
afterwards
when
Almighty
God
had
shewed
euidently
that
it
was
his
holy
will
and
pleasure
,
that
they
should
not
only
remain
in
Rome
,
but
also
be
vnseene
and
vntouched
(
in
respect
of
the
great
veneration
wherein
he
would
haue
them
to
be
held
)
S.
Gregory
had
great
reason
to
feare
Gods
punishment
,
in
case
he
should
suffer
them
to
be
touched
or
seene
,
as
King
Dauid
feared
with
like
reason
to
touch
the
Arke
,
or
to
bring
it
into
his
Citty
,
after
that
Oza
was
strocken
with
sudden
death
for
staying
it
,
and
houlding
it
vp
when
it
was
like
to
fall
2.
Reg
.
6.
And
therefore
S.
Gregory
refused
in
like
manner
to
send
to
the
Empresse
the
napkin
(
wherin
S.
Paules
head
was
wrapped
)
saying
to
her
thus
:
Sudarium
quod
similiter
transmitti
iussisti●
&c.
The
winding-sheet
which
you
also
command
to
be
sent
you
,
is
with
his
body
;
and
as
the
body
may
not
be
approached
,
so
neither
may
the
sayd
sheet
be
touched
:
but
because
the
religious
desire
of
so
Gratious
a
Lady
ought
not
to
be
frustrated
,
I
wil
with
speed
send
you
some
part
of
the
chaynes
,
which
the
holy
Apostle
S.
Paul
bare
vpon
his
neck
,
and
handes
(
by
the
which
many
miracles
are
shewed
)
if
I
can
get
from
them
any
part
thereof
with
a
fyle
;
for
it
falleth
out
often
that
when
many
come
,
and
demand
some
benediction
from
those
chayns
(
by
hauing
some
little
part
of
the
filings
of
them
)
the
Priest
standeth
by
with
the
fyle
;
and
for
some
of
those
who
demaund
it
,
some
litle
is
easily
and
speedily
filed
of
;
but
for
some
others
,
nothing
at
all
can
be
gotten
from
the
chaynes
,
though
they
be
fyled
neuer
so
long
.
60.
Thus
sayth
S.
Gregory
;
and
with
this
he
endeth
his
Epistle
,
hauing
recounted
as
you
see
,
so
many
stupendious
thinges
,
to
shew
the
great
respect
,
and
honour
due
to
holy
Reliques
,
that
Maister
Collins
may
be
thought
no
lesse
senseles
then
shameles
to
produce
this
Epistle
,
or
any
thing
in
it
,
against
the
veneration
of
them
,
especially
,
seeing
that
which
S.
Gregory
sayth
also
in
general
(
touching
his
mislike
of
the
taking
vp
of
Saints
bones
)
tendeth
only
to
the
greater
honour
of
them
,
his
meaning
being
no
other
(
as
I
haue
declared
before
num
42.
)
but
that
they
should
not
be
taken
vp
(
in
respect
of
the
reuerence
due
vnto
them
)
without
iust
cause
,
and
leaue
of
Superiours
which
is
alwayes
iustly
graunted
,
when
it
may
be
to
the
greater
glory
of
God
,
and
of
his
Saints
,
in
which
case
S.
Gregory
himself
practised
it
,
as
you
haue
seene
in
the
examples
alleadged
before
out
of
his
owne
Epistles
in
this
Chapter
,
num
.
48.
49.
&
51.
61.
Whereby
it
appeareth
that
albeit
he
neither
would
,
nor
durst
consent
that
the
bodyes
of
S.
Peter
,
S.
Paul
,
or
S.
Laurence
shold
be
taken
vp
,
or
any
reliques
taken
from
thē
(
by
reason
of
the
manifest
demonstration
,
which
Almighty
God
had
shewed
of
his
wil
,
that
they
should
not
be
so
much
as
touched
or
seene
)
yet
he
gaue
leaue
that
Reliques
should
be
taken
from
the
bodyes
of
other
Saintes
,
for
the
dedication
of
new
Churches
,
and
Altars
,
and
other
iust
respects
;
yea
,
and
he
himselfe
sent
also
to
others
abroad
reliques
euen
of
S.
Peter
,
S.
Paul
and
S.
Laurence
;
such
reliques
,
I
meane
,
as
were
already
separated
from
their
bodyes
and
had
beene
in
former
tymes
reserued
,
as
it
appeareth
in
his
Epistle
to
Palladius
cyted
before
num
.
48.
as
also
in
his
Epistle
to
Brunechilda
Queen
of
France
num
.
51.
and
the
same
is
in
like
manner
euident
inough
euen
in
this
Epistle
to
the
Empresse
:
for
althogh
he
denyed
to
send
her
S.
Pauls
head
,
or
the
linnen
cloath
wherin
the
same
was
wrapped
(
for
the
reason
before
declared
)
yet
he
promised
to
send
her
some
of
the
fylings
of
his
chayns
,
which
were
kept
separate
from
his
body
;
so
as
there
can
be
no
doubt
of
S.
Gregoryes
beliefe
,
and
doctrine
concerning
the
vse
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
;
but
it
may
well
be
doubted
,
whether
M.
Collins
hath
any
sparke
of
shame
or
honesty
in
him
,
who
seeing
such
aboundant
testimony
in
S.
Gregoryes
Epistles
of
the
reuerent
respect
and
honour
which
he
bare
to
holy
Reliques
,
doth
neuerthelesse
wittingly
&
willfully
abuse
his
authority
against
them
;
and
no
meruaile
,
seeing
he
doth
the
like
with
S.
Ambrose
,
S.
Augustine
,
S.
Hierome
,
and
S.
Chrysostome
alleadging
them
against
the
translation
,
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
when
they
,
as
you
haue
already
seen
do
all
of
them
clearely
testify
and
approue
the
practise
thereof
.
62.
This
being
so
,
what
need
I
trouble
my selfe
,
and
my
Reader
,
with
any
other
answere
to
his
Parenthesis
concerning
S.
Augustine
,
and
S.
Hierome
,
who
,
he
sayth
,
do
witnesse
,
that
the
fashion
was
before
S.
Gregoryes
tyme
,
to
carry
fragments
of
Martyrs
vp
and
downe
for
sale
?
For
is
it
not
euident
by
the
premisses
,
that
both
S.
Augustine
,
and
S.
Hierome
did
highly
approue
the
solemne
,
and
deuout
translation
of
holy
Reliques
?
With
what
face
thē
,
doth
this
brazen-faced
fellow
obiect
against
vs
,
their
dislike
,
and
reproof
of
the
abuse
of
holy
reliques
,
which
we
also
condemne
no
lesse
thē
they
,
punishing
the
delinquents
,
when
occasion
requireth
?
But
because
he
setteth
downe
in
his
margent
these
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
:
Noui
multos
sepulchrorum
adoratores
&c.
I
know
there
are
many
that
do
adore
sepulchers
&c.
and
addeth
also
afterwardes
,
a
testimony
of
Gregorius
Turonensis
,
touching
one
that
had
a
satchel
of
Rats
bones
,
and
Rootes
,
and
teeth
of
Moales
,
and
the
fat
of
Bears
,
which
he
distributed
to
the
people
for
reliques
;
S.
Augustine
himselfe
shall
answere
M.
Collins
for
both
in
the
same
place
,
where
he
hath
the
words
obiected
by
M.
Collins
,
to
wit
,
in
his
first
Booke
de
moribus
Ecclesiae
Catholicae
cap
.
34.
63.
But
first
it
is
to
be
vnderstood
,
that
the
Manicheans
in
those
dayes
obiected
against
the
Catholiques
(
as
M.
Collins
doth
now
)
aswell
certaine
abuses
of
ignorant
,
and
superstitious
men
,
as
the
bad
liues
of
some
others
,
and
among
other
things
,
that
there
were
some
who
adored
the
tombes
of
Martyrs
(
eyther
with
diuyne
honour
,
or
with
some
superstitious
Ceremonies
,
in
which
respect
they
called
them
,
sepulchrorum
adoratores
)
which
S.
Augustine
acknowledgeth
to
be
true
,
and
therfore
answereth
them
,
that
they
should
not
obiect
vnto
him
such
as
professe
the
Christian
religion
,
and
eyther
do
not
knowe
the
force
of
their
profession
,
or
doe
not
practise
it
;
neither
yet
that
they
should
obiect
a
Company
of
ignorant
men
,
who
eyther
are
superstitious
in
religion
it self
,
or
so
giuen
ouer
to
their
lust
,
and
pleasure
,
that
they
forget
,
what
they
haue
promised
to
God
.
And
he
sayth
further
to
the
Manichees
thus
;
It
is
no
meruaile
,
that
in
such
multitudes
of
people
(
as
professe
the
Christian
religion
)
there
want
not
some
,
by
whose
bad
lyues
you
may
deceaue
the
vnwary
,
and
auert
them
from
the
saluation
which
they
may
haue
by
the
Catholique
faith
&c.
Nunc
autem
illud
vos
admoneo
&c.
but
now
I
do
admonish
or
aduise
you
of
this
,
viz.
to
leaue
your
rayling
vpon
the
Catholike
Church
blaming
the
manners
of
men
,
whom
the
Church
it selfe
condemneth
,
and
dayly
laboureth
to
correct
and
reforme
as
bad
Children
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
to
the
Manichees
;
and
so
say
I
to
M.
Collins
,
to
make
him
capable
,
if
it
may
be
,
that
neither
the
abuse
of
some
Catholiques
in
the
exercise
or
practise
of
religion
,
neither
yet
the
bad
liues
of
some
others
can
preiudice
the
integrity
,
and
purity
of
the
Catholique
fayth
,
and
doctryne
;
and
so
he
himselfe
and
his
fellowes
would
quickly
tell
vs
,
if
we
should
obiect
against
them
,
the
monstrous
bad
liues
of
their
Ministers
(
manifest
to
all
England
at
the
publicke
Assises
,
and
Sessions
)
and
the
manifold
abuses
committed
by
diuers
of
them
in
the
exercise
of
their
function
,
and
ministery
.
64.
Therefore
whereas
he
obiecteth
against
vs
the
foresayd
abuses
of
reliques
,
reproued
by
foure
auncient
Fathers
,
(
S.
Augustine
,
S.
Hierome
,
S.
Gregory
the
great
,
&
S.
Gregory
Bishop
of
Towers
)
we
require
of
him
,
that
as
we
condemne
the
same
abuses
with
those
Fathers
;
so
also
he
will
acknowledge
and
approue
with
them
and
vs
,
the
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
which
they
acknowledg
and
approue
as
you
haue
seene
already
in
three
of
them
,
that
is
to
say
,
in
Saint
Hierome
,
Saint
Augustine
,
and
Saint
Gregory
the
great
.
And
the
same
is
no
lesse
euident
in
the
fourth
,
to
wit
,
in
Saint
Gregory
Bishop
of
Towers
,
who
hath
written
two
notable
books
de
gloria
Martyrum
,
and
de
gloriae
Confessorum
;
the
substance
whereof
is
nothing
els
,
but
a
relation
of
m●nifest
miracles
done
at
the
Tombes
,
or
by
the
reliques
of
Martyrs
and
Confessors
,
vpon
such
as
with
deuotion
,
and
reuerence
had
recourse
vnto
them
.
65.
Therefore
a
man
may
wonder
at
the
impudency
of
this
fellow
,
who
is
not
●shamed
to
make
this
holy
father
an
abettour
of
his
impiety
in
impugning
holy
reliques
,
only
because
he
doth
with
detestation
recount
the
history
of
a
sacrilegious
Nigromancer
,
who
deceiued
deuout
people
with
counterfait
,
and
false
reliques
;
in
which
story
neuerthelesse
there
is
most
euident
testimony
aswell
of
the
Authors
reuerent
respect
and
deuotion
to
holy
reliques
,
as
also
of
the
praictise
of
the
Church
in
the
veneration
of
them
which
I
omit
for
breuityes
sake
.
And
therefore
whereas
M.
Collins
concludeth
his
marginall
note
concerning
the
testimony
of
this
Father
,
with
this
question
,
Is
it
not
pitty
,
that
we
Englishmen
will
not
traffike
with
the
Iesuits
for
such
ghostly
commodityes
(
meaning
rats
bones
,
the
teeth
of
moales
,
&
such
like
;
)
I
would
gladly
know
of
M.
Collins
what
Iesuits
(
yea
or
what
other
Catholique
man
in
this
age
)
he
can
name
that
hath
euer
made
traffick
with
such
wares
;
&
if
he
cannot
name
any
(
whereof
I
am
well
assured
)
then
I
may
well
aske
him
,
whether
it
is
not
great
pitty
,
and
shame
,
that
Englishmen
should
haue
such
pastors
of
their
soules
,
such
preachers
,
teachers
,
and
writers
,
as
make
no
conscience
to
lye
,
slaunder
,
and
backbite
,
quorum
os
maledictione
,
&
amaritudine
plenum
est
.
psal
.
13.
whose
mouth
is
full
of
malediction
and
bitternesse
;
whose
throate
is
sepulchrum
patens
,
an
open
Sepulcher
;
and
the
venime
of
Aspis
is
vnder
their
lyps
;
yea
,
&
voloces
pedes
eorum
ad
effundendum
sanguinem
,
their
feet
are
swift
to
spill
bloud
,
as
wee
find
by
experience
when
we
fall
into
their
fingers
:
but
God
forgiue
them
,
and
send
them
more
Charity
,
and
the
light
of
his
grace
.
66.
There
followeth
in
M.
Collins
a
place
out
of
Origen
contra
Celsum
lib
.
8.
which
he
sayth
he
had
omitted
,
so
as
it
seemed
to
him
to
be
of
such
importance
,
that
it
might
not
be
passed
ouer
with
silence
.
We
haue
learned
,
saith
Origen
,
to
recommend
honorably
to
the
graue
the
instruments
of
the
soule
reasonable
,
that
is
,
(
sayth
M.
Collins
)
the
bodyes
of
men
,
and
the
members
thereof
:
Therefore
not
to
make
reliques
of
them
.
So
he
;
which
he
might
very
well
haue
stil
omitted
,
and
kept
in
store
,
vntill
he
had
met
with
some
man
,
who
would
deny
that
dead
men
should
be
buryed
,
which
we
do
not
;
for
we
do
bury
not
only
euery
dead
man
(
houlding
it
for
a
great
worke
of
Charity
)
but
also
the
holyest
men
,
albeyt
we
do
also
afterwards
honour
theyr
tombs
,
bodyes
,
and
reliques
when
Almighty
God
hath
giuen
vndoubted
testimony
of
their
sanctity
,
by
miracls
,
or
by
the
iudgment
of
the
Church
;
yea
and
sometymes
we
take
them
vp
agayn
,
&
translate
them
with
greater
honour
,
and
solemnity
,
for
Gods
greater
glory
,
and
theyrs
;
so
as
we
do
thē
honour
in
burying
of
them
,
and
more
honour
in
translating
them
,
as
it
is
euident
in
the
examples
of
the
Saints
before
mentioned
;
to
wit
,
the
Apostles
S.
Peter
,
S.
Paul
,
S.
Andrew
,
S.
Luke
,
S.
Tymothy
,
Samuel
the
prophet
,
S.
Ignatius
,
S.
Babylas
,
S.
Geruase
,
and
Protase
,
who
were
buryed
honourably
by
the
Christians
then
liuing
,
and
translated
after
with
farre
greater
honour
to
God
,
and
them
.
And
therefore
M.
Collins
his
argument
out
of
Origen
is
such
a
silly
one
,
as
that
he
might
very
well
haue
omitted
it
,
and
I
also
haue
let
it
passe
for
one
of
his
ordinary
fooleryes
,
but
that
I
note
in
it
the
same
fraud
that
he
vsed
before
in
the
like
places
of
S.
Ambrose
,
whereby
he
chaunged
the
state
of
the
question
from
Saints
(
of
whom
we
speak
)
to
ordinary
dead
men
,
of
whom
Origen
,
&
S.
Ambrose
speake
;
for
of
them
there
is
to
be
had
farre
different
considerations
,
as
I
haue
declared
before
.
67.
Next
after
this
,
he
addeth
two
other
exampls
against
Reliques
out
of
Victor
Vticensis
de
persecutione
Vandalica
lib
.
1.
The
first
of
Armogastes
,
sayth
he
,
a
godly
Christian
who
desired
Faelix
(
another
of
the
profession
)
sepeliri
sub
arbore
siliquae
,
i
.
that
being
dead
,
he
might
be
buryed
vnder
a
homely
tree
(
if
a
tree
)
not
with
triumph
,
and
fauour
,
or
solemnity
.
So
he
.
And
then
addeth
further
thus
:
As
for
the
Sarcophagus
which
appeared
,
as
it
were
by
miracle
,
in
the
place
by
him
allotted
for
his
buryall
,
I
impute
that
to
the
satisfaction
of
his
godly
desire
,
about
a
quicke
consumption
or
turning
into
nothing
,
then
which
nothing
can
be
more
repugnant
to
your
ceremony
of
Reliques
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
telling
vs
a
tale
of
a
tub
,
speaking
of
a
Sarcophagus
,
so
obscurely
,
that
no
man
who
hath
not
read
the
history
can
tell
what
it
meaneth
.
Therfore
that
you
may
vnderstand
the
whole
,
and
see
his
fraud
withall
,
I
will
briefly
relate
the
matter
as
it
passed
.
68.
This
Armogastes
hauing
beene
many
wayes
extremely
tormented
by
the
Vandalls
for
the
Catholik
fayth
,
and
hauing
endured
the
same
with
inuincible
courage
,
and
constancy
,
was
at
length
made
to
keep
Cattle
neere
to
Carthage
,
&
hauing
after
a
whyle
a
reuelation
from
Almighty
of
his
death
,
to
succeed
within
few
dayes
,
he
most
earnestly
intreated
a
friend
of
his
called
Faelix
(
who
did
often
visit
him
)
to
bury
him
vnder
a
tree
,
when
he
should
be
dea●
;
which
Faelix
denyed
to
graunt
him
a
long
tyme
,
telling
him
that
he
should
be
buryed
in
a
Church
cum
triumpho
&
gratia
,
that
is
to
say
with
triumph
and
solemnity
,
as
was
conuenient
.
69.
Neuerthelesse
in
the
end
being
charged
deeply
by
him
in
conscience
as
he
would
answere
it
before
God
,
he
promised
him
to
satisfy
his
desire
.
Within
a
few
dayes
after
Armogastes
dyed
,
and
Faelix
meaning
to
performe
his
promise
,
digged
with
great
difficulty
,
through
the
rootes
of
the
Tree
,
Et
tandem
(
sayth
Victor
)
abscissis
radicibus
,
multò
altiùs
terram
cauans
,
inuenit
Sarcophagum
splendidissimi
marmoris
praeparatum
,
qualem
fortè
nullus
omnino
habuit
Regum
:
And
at
length
digging
much
deeper
,
and
the
roots
of
the
Tree
being
cut
away
,
he
found
a
Tombe
of
most
bright
shining
Marble
ready
made
,
such
a
one
as
perhaps
neuer
any
King
had
the
like
.
Thus
sayth
Victor
.
70.
Now
good
Reader
,
I
leaue
it
to
thy
Iudgment
,
whether
any
thing
can
be
iustly
picked
out
of
this
history
against
reliques
;
or
rather
whether
the
contrary
may
not
be
gathered
thereof
,
seeing
it
appeareth
thereby
,
how
much
Almighty
God
honored
the
dead
body
of
this
his
seruant
,
for
the
which
he
miraculously
prepared
so
rich
and
magnificent
a
sepulcher
.
And
whereas
M.
Collins
vrgeth
two
points
therein
for
his
purpose
:
the
one
,
that
Armogastes
would
be
buryed
simply
vnder
a
homely
tree
,
not
cum
triumpho
&
gratia
,
not
with
fauour
,
and
solemnity
:
and
the
other
,
that
he
desired
a
quicke
consumption
,
which
sayth
M.
Collins
is
most
repugnant
to
your
ceremony
of
Reliques
,
he
is
most
ridiculous
in
both
,
and
in
the
later
not
only
ridiculous
,
but
also
fraudulent
.
I
say
ridiculous
,
because
the
contrary
of
that
which
he
supposeth
doth
rather
follow
thereof
.
71.
For
what
can
be
gathered
of
eyther
of
both
,
but
that
Armogastes
was
so
humble
,
that
he
esteemed
himself
vnworthy
of
all
honour
,
&
respect
,
or
so
much
as
of
any
memory
amongst
men
,
which
made
him
most
honourable
,
and
glorious
in
the
sight
of
God
,
according
to
the
saying
of
our
Sauiour
,
qui
se
humiliat
,
exaltabitur
,
and
therfore
this
humility
was
so
farre
from
hindring
his
desert
to
be
honoured
after
his
death
,
that
being
testifyed
by
Almighty
God
,
with
the
honour
of
such
a
miraculous
buriall
,
it
made
his
very
memory
and
reliques
much
more
venerable
and
honourable
;
besides
that
,
what
a
silly
fellow
is
M.
Collins
to
think
that
any
holy
man
doth
esteem
himself
worthy
to
be
held
for
a
Saint
,
or
his
body
,
and
reliques
worthy
of
worship
after
his
death
,
which
only
conceit
might
suffice
to
depriue
him
of
Gods
fauour
,
and
grace
,
&
consequently
of
eternall
blisse
.
Wil
he
then
argue
thus
;
Armogastes
desired
a
homely
burial
,
and
to
be
quickly
consumed
;
Ergo
there
ought
to
be
no
Reliques
of
him
or
of
any
els
?
Or
therefore
reliques
are
not
to
be
worshipped
?
Who
seeth
not
the
absurdity
of
these
consequents
?
Seeing
that
which
may
be
inferred
vpon
those
premisses
,
is
this
,
that
he
himselfe
desired
out
of
his
humility
that
there
should
be
no
reliques
,
nor
further
memory
of
him
,
which
as
I
haue
sayd
,
did
greatly
increase
his
merit
,
and
make
him
much
more
worthy
of
honour
.
72.
But
if
I
should
aske
M.
Collins
where
he
hath
found
that
Armogastes
desired
to
be
quickly
consumed
to
nothing
,
he
would
tell
me
(
no
doubt
)
that
he
found
it
in
the
Sarcophagus
,
which
Faelix
found
by
digging
vnder
the
tree
,
because
Plyny
telleth
of
a
kind
of
stone
found
at
a
Citty
called
Assus
,
neere
to
Troy
in
Phrygia
,
the
property
wherof
is
to
consume
dead
bodyes
,
all
but
the
teeth
,
within
fourty
dayes
,
which
stone
is
therfore
called
Sarcophagus
in
Greek
compounded
of
{αβγδ}
flesh
,
and
{αβγδ}
to
eate
;
so
as
M.
Collins
must
by
this
meanes
imagine
that
Armogastes
knowing
by
reuelation
,
not
onely
that
there
was
a
tombe
vnder
that
Tree
,
where
he
desired
to
be
buryed
,
but
also
that
it
was
made
of
that
stone
,
ordayned
to
be
buryed
there
,
to
the
end
he
might
be
presently
consumed
,
and
nothing
left
of
him
to
make
reliques
off
.
73.
Neuerthelesse
if
we
should
graunt
all
this
to
be
true
,
the
matter
would
not
not
be
altogeather
cleare
;
for
so
Armogastes
must
also
know
(
if
he
knew
the
property
of
that
stone
by
reuelation
)
that
his
teeth
would
remaine
vnconsumed
,
and
in
danger
to
be
made
reliques
,
whereby
his
desire
of
a
totall
consumption
should
not
be
satisfyed
,
nor
M.
Collins
his
argument
against
reliques
,
proued
altogeather
so
sound
as
he
would
haue
it
.
But
truely
,
albeit
I
cannot
but
commend
him
for
his
fine
deuise
,
shewing
his
pretty
wit
,
and
that
he
hath
som●
smacke
aswell
in
Grammer
,
as
in
Plynyes
naturall
history
;
yet
I
must
needs
condemne
him
of
no
small
fraud
,
in
that
he
wresteth
the
sense
of
the
word
Sarcophagus
from
th●
common
vse
thereof
,
to
a
particuler
sense
〈◇〉
to
wit
,
to
one
kind
of
tombe
,
made
only
of
that
stone
,
which
the
very
wordes
of
the
Author
,
and
the
circumstances
doe
contradict
;
for
as
for
the
common
vse
thereof
in
Greeke
or
Latin
,
I
report
me
to
the
Dictionaryes
of
either
language
,
as
to
Henricus
Stephanus
,
and
to
Scapula
for
the
Greeke
,
who
do
expound
{αβγδ}
,
as
it
is
an
adiectiue
by
Carniuorus
,
and
as
it
is
a
substantiue
,
they
say
it
is
taken
pro
sepulchro
,
for
a
sepulcher
,
meaning
that
it
is
a
generall
word
for
a
sepulcher
,
and
therefore
they
add
withall
,
that
it
signifyeth
also
a
stone
which
consumeth
flesh
speedily
.
The
Latin
Dictionaryes
,
also
say
the
same
;
&
our
Latin
Authors
do
vse
it
likewise
for
a
sepulcher
in
generall
,
as
Iuuenall
speaking
of
Alexander
the
Great
(
Satyr
.
10.
)
sayth
Sarcophago
contentus
erit
,
and
S.
Augustin
sayth
expresly
in
his
18.
book
deciuitate
Dei
cap
.
5.
that
all
men
do
call
Sarcophagum
,
that
which
in
Greeke
is
called
{αβγδ}
,
and
signifyeth
a
tombe
,
wherein
dead
men
are
layd
;
and
this
I
note
the
rather
out
of
S.
Augustine
,
because
he
was
an
African
,
as
Victor
was
,
who
writeth
this
story
of
Armogastes
in
the
same
age
,
&
therfore
no
doubt
vsed
the
word
Sarcophagus
in
the
sense
,
which
S.
Augustin
sayth
was
common
to
all
,
as
all
other
Latin
Authours
of
the
ensuing
ages
haue
done
,
namely
S.
Gregorius
Turonensis
,
who
hath
the
same
words
in
the
same
sense
.
74.
But
to
put
the
matter
out
of
all
doubt
,
the
very
text
,
and
wordes
of
Victor
do
expresly
exclude
this
conceit
of
M.
Collins
,
seeing
he
sayth
,
that
Faelix
hauing
digged
very
deep
,
inuenit
Sarcophagum
splendidiffimi
marmoris
,
found
a
tombe
of
most
bright
,
and
shining
Marble
;
and
therefore
it
was
not
made
of
the
stone
called
Sarcophagus
,
which
according
to
Dioscorides
lib
.
5.
cap
.
142.
is
leuis
,
fungosus
,
&
friabilis
,
light
,
spungy
,
or
soft
like
a
musrumpe
,
and
easily
to
be
crumbled
,
whereas
marble
is
a
most
hard
and
solide
stone
;
and
albeit
some
kind
of
Marble
is
soster
then
other
(
as
the
white
which
is
called
Alabaster
)
yet
there
is
none
among
all
the
kinds
(
which
Plyny
,
or
any
other
recounteth
)
that
is
light
,
spungy
,
and
crumbling
as
Dioscorides
describeth
Sarcophagus
to
be
,
&
therefore
Iacobus
Delachampius
in
his
annotations
vpon
Plyny
lib
.
36.
cap
.
17.
obserueth
that
some
Authours
do
say
,
that
Sarcophagus
or
lapis
Assius
is
a
kind
of
the
stone
called
Pyrites
,
which
is
of
the
nature
of
fire
(
according
to
the
Etymology
of
the
word
)
&
that
others
hould
it
to
be
a
kind
of
pumishston
;
which
is
the
lightest
,
and
most
spungy
stone
that
is
;
so
as
,
in
the
opinion
of
all
these
it
is
very
different
from
the
nature
of
Marble
.
75.
And
put
the
case
it
were
some
kind
of
Marble
,
or
might
be
so
called
,
yet
M.
Collins
should
haue
no
reason
to
take
it
in
this
place
for
a
Tombe
made
of
that
one
kind
of
Marble
,
seeing
the
word
Sarcophagus
was
(
as
I
haue
sayd
)
at
that
tyme
when
the
story
was
written
generally
vnderstood
for
any
Tombe
made
of
what
matter
soeuer
,
and
that
it
was
also
expressed
in
the
Text
of
the
history
,
that
it
was
splendidissimi
marmoris
,
of
most
bright
and
shining
Marble
,
which
cannot
be
applyed
to
this
stone
,
wherein
there
is
no
splendour
or
brightnes
obserued
by
Authors
.
And
if
M.
Collins
wil
say
,
that
the
Etimology
of
the
word
(
signifying
an
eating
,
or
deuouring
of
flesh
)
might
well
induce
him
so
to
expound
it
,
then
why
is
it
not
also
to
be
taken
so
in
other
places
,
alleadged
by
me
before
out
of
Iuuenall
,
S.
Augustine
,
Gregorius
Turonensis
,
&
others
,
where
it
is
euident
that
it
signifyeth
a
Tombe
,
in
generall
?
Or
rather
why
doth
he
take
Pon●ifex
,
and
Episcopus
for
a
Bishop
,
(
which
according
to
the
Etymology
should
signify
a
Bridg-maker
)
and
a
superintendent
,
or
ouerseer
?
or
why
doth
he
take
Latrones
for
theeues
,
and
not
for
such
as
guard
Princes
going
by
their
sides
for
their
defence
,
as
the
word
did
signify
at
the
first
?
76.
Therefore
as
he
should
be
held
for
ridiculous
,
and
a
very
Asse
,
that
would
now
leaue
the
common
vse
of
these
words
to
vnderstand
,
and
interprete
them
according
to
the
Etimology
or
first
origen
therof
,
so
may
good
M.
Collins
be
held
for
no
lesse
,
if
he
will
leaue
the
common
vse
,
and
sense
of
Sarcophagus
(
which
all
men
take
for
a
tombe
in
generall
)
to
vnderstand
it
for
a
tombe
made
of
one
certaine
stone
,
eyther
because
the
Etymology
thereof
agreeth
therewith
,
or
because
perhaps
at
the
first
it
might
haue
some
deriuation
from
thence
,
which
neuerthelesse
,
is
not
necessary
,
seing
that
any
Tombe
,
or
graue
may
be
properly
called
Sarcophagus
,
or
Carniuorus
,
because
it
doth
indeed
deuoure
,
&
in
tyme
consume
mens
bodyes
,
and
turne
them
to
dust
.
77.
Thus
thou
seest
,
good
Reader
,
how
much
I
haue
presumed
of
thy
patience
to
debate
so
largely
with
M.
Collins
this
question
partly
Grammaticall
,
and
partly
Historicall
,
aswell
to
shew
his
ignorance
,
both
in
Grammer
,
and
history
,
as
also
to
confute
his
extrauagant
conceit
,
grounded
vpon
no
better
foundation
then
his
owne
fraudulent
dissimulation
of
the
Authours
text
and
meaning
,
which
being
duly
wayghed
doth
rather
make
notably
against
him
,
then
any
way
for
him
,
as
I
doubt
not
,
but
thou
hast
seene
,
and
noted
sufficiently
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
one
of
the
two
exampls
,
which
he
alleadgeth
out
of
Victor
.
78.
The
other
is
of
a
Bishop
of
Carthage
called
Deogratias
,
whose
worthy
members
,
sayth
M.
Collins
,
the
people
out
of
their
zeale
might
haue
violently
snatcht
away
,
or
pulled
asunder
,
Nisi
consilio
Prudentum
nesciente
multitudine
sepeliretur
,
1.
vnlesse
he
had
beene
buryed
,
whyles
the
people
did
not
know
of
it
,
at
the
direction
,
and
suggestion
of
wisemen
;
so
as
to
resist
your
reliquations
(
the
true
bankruptures
of
religion
)
is
wisedome
to
Victor
,
&
to
the
ancient
Christians
that
liued
before
him
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
,
alleadging
this
example
much
more
truly
,
then
he
hath
done
the
former
.
79.
But
albeit
there
is
no
fraud
in
the
example
,
yet
there
is
notable
folly
in
his
inference
theron
;
for
how
doth
it
follow
of
this
act
of
those
wisemen
,
eyther
that
it
is
wisedome
to
resist
our
reliquations
(
to
vse
his
absurd
phrase
)
or
that
the
preseruation
,
and
veneration
of
reliques
are
,
the
bankruptures
of
Religion
?
Whereof
rather
the
contrary
may
be
gathered
by
this
example
,
seeing
it
appeareth
euidently
therby
,
how
much
the
reliques
of
holy
men
were
esteemed
,
and
desired
at
that
tyme
,
although
wise
men
thought
it
necessary
(
as
it
was
indeed
)
not
to
suffer
the
ignorant
multitude
to
preuent
the
iudgment
of
the
Church
by
their
indiscreet
zeale
,
and
to
reuerence
the
Reliques
(
though
of
neuer
so
holy
men
)
before
the
Church
had
approued
them
.
80.
And
therefore
as
those
wise
men
(
of
whom
Victor
speaketh
)
buryed
the
body
to
saue
it
from
the
violence
of
the
indiscreet
multitude
,
so
the
like
hath
beene
full
often
and
is
in
like
occasion
practised
by
Catholikes
,
whereof
we
had
an
euident
example
a
few
yeares
ago
in
the
funeralls
of
a
worthy
man
,
of
whome
I
am
sure
,
it
will
do
M.
Collins
good
at
the
very
hart
to
heare
,
for
the
loue
he
bareth
to
our
Society
,
I
meane
our
last
Father
Generall
Claudius
Aquauiua
of
happy
memory
,
who
being
thoroughout
al
his
Generalate
,
no
lesse
renowned
,
and
famous
for
his
religious
,
and
holy
life
,
then
for
the
Nobility
,
and
worthynes
of
his
lineage
(
being
sonne
to
the
Duke
of
Atri
)
was
held
in
such
veneration
of
the
people
,
that
when
his
body
was
brought
forth
to
be
buryed
,
they
pressed
with
great
violence
to
approach
the
hearse
,
and
to
get
som
reliques
of
him
,
by
tearing
the
cloaths
wherewith
his
body
was
vested
(
as
the
manner
is
heere
)
which
they
attempted
,
&
violently
got
his
Cap
from
his
head
;
wherupon
the
Fathers
of
the
Society
were
fayne
to
vse
extraordinary
endeauour
,
and
diligence
to
repell
them
,
and
to
carry
away
his
body
from
them
by
force
into
the
Sacristy
,
and
afterwardes
to
bury
it
secretly
in
the
night
.
81.
Now
then
albeyt
this
was
done
no
doubt
,
consilio
prudenti
,
by
wise
councell
or
aduise
(
as
Victor
sayth
of
the
other
)
yet
I
hope
M.
Collins
will
not
inferre
hereupon
,
that
our
Fathers
did
think
that
the
reliques
of
Saints
are
not
to
be
kept
,
&
worshipped
,
or
yet
that
they
would
not
highly
esteeme
,
and
reuerence
the
reliques
of
their
Generall
,
if
the
Church
had
canonized
,
and
declared
him
for
a
Saynt
,
and
the
same
is
to
be
said
of
those
wisemen
of
whome
Victor
speaketh
.
82.
And
whereas
M.
Collins
saith
,
that
our
reliquations
are
the
bankruptures
of
religion
;
truly
he
is
so
fyne
,
and
spruse
in
his
language
,
that
I
knowe
not
well
whether
I
vnderstand
him
or
no
(
for
I
cannot
tell
well
what
he
meaneth
by
reliquations
,
or
by
bankeruptures
otherwayes
then
by
ghesse
)
but
if
I
ghesse
aright
,
&
that
he
meane
that
by
the
veneration
of
reliques
,
we
become
bankrupts
in
religion
,
what
will
he
say
of
all
those
Fathers
before
mentioned
,
who
cannot
be
denyed
to
haue
honoured
holy
reliques
,
to
wit
,
S.
Hierome
,
S.
Ambrose
,
S.
Chrisostome
.
S.
Gregory
Nissen
,
S.
Augustine
,
S.
Gregory
the
Great
,
and
S.
Gregory
Bishop
of
Towers
,
and
others
;
will
he
say
that
by
their
reliquations
they
were
also
bankrupts
in
religion
?
and
if
not
they
,
then
why
we
?
who
do
no
more
then
they
did
,
as
it
is
euident
by
the
testimonyes
,
and
examples
alleadged
by
me
before
.
83.
And
now
to
come
to
his
conclusion
,
he
saith
,
that
S.
Hierome
shall
end
the
matter
,
who
in
the
lyues
of
S.
Hilarion
,
and
S.
Antony
testified
that
they
gaue
special
order
before
their
deaths
;
the
one
(
to
wit
S.
Hilarion
)
to
be
buryed
in
his
Clothes
,
and
not
to
be
kept
aboue
ground
one
minute
of
an
houre
(
because
sayth
M.
Collins
,
he
would
not
be
pickled
vp
in
reliques
;
)
and
the
other
to
be
buryed
priuately
,
least
one
Pergamius
a
rich
man
might
perhaps
steale
away
his
body
,
and
put
it
in
a
shryne
;
and
then
he
addeth
,
The
like
was
done
,
saith
he
,
to
Moyses
body
for
the
same
cause
,
God
euery
where
forbidding
to
seeke
the
liuing
amongst
the
dead
,
as
you
do
playnely
in
your
reliques
,
worshipping
not
thē
but
Christ
in
them
,
as
you
stick
not
to
triumph
num
25.
of
this
Chapter
.
Thus
endeth
M.
Collins
his
graue
discourse
,
as
wisely
,
as
he
beganne
it
,
&
with
the
like
sincerity
that
you
haue
seene
him
proceed
hitherto
.
84.
Fo●
you
see
he
alleadgeth
heer
S.
Hierome
against
reliques
,
as
if
S.
Hierome
did
also
impugne
them
no
lesse
then
he
,
wheras
that
holy
Father
most
earnestly
defended
the
keeping
,
translation
,
and
veneration
of
them
against
Vigilantius
,
in
a
particuler
treatise
written
expressely
for
that
purpose
,
as
you
haue
seene
amply
in
the
last
Chapter
,
nu
.
22.
23.
&c.
which
being
obiected
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
,
M.
Collins
passed
ouer
with
silence
,
to
the
end
,
perhaps
,
that
he
might
the
better
afterwards
make
vse
of
his
authority
some
way
or
other
against
reliques
,
as
heere
you
see
he
hath
done
,
though
most
idly
;
seeing
all
that
which
he
produceth
out
of
the
liues
of
those
two
fathers
written
by
S.
Hierome
,
proueth
no
more
then
that
which
you
heard
obiected
by
him
before
nu
.
67.
out
of
Victor
Vticensis
concerning
Armogastes
,
to
wit
,
that
those
two
holy
monks
were
so
lowly
and
humble
in
hart
,
that
they
thoght
themselues
al
togeather
vnworthy
of
that
honour
,
which
they
knew
had
been
done
to
many
holy
men
after
their
death
,
and
feared
might
also
be
done
to
them
,
if
they
did
not
preuent
it
;
in
which
respect
(
as
I
said
before
of
Armogastes
)
they
were
much
more
honourable
in
the
sight
both
of
God
,
and
man
,
and
therefore
were
by
gods
speciall
ordinance
,
(
for
his
owne
greater
glory
and
theirs
)
highly
honoured
afterward
,
not
only
by
the
celebration
of
their
festiuall
dayes
in
the
Church
,
but
also
by
the
veneration
,
and
translation
of
their
holy
reliques
,
which
they
(
out
of
their
humility
)
sought
so
much
to
auoyd
.
85.
And
this
is
most
euident
in
Hilarion
,
euen
in
that
place
of
S.
Hierome
which
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
&
obiecteth
to
vs
,
which
I
beseech
thee
good
Reader
,
to
note
,
that
thou
mayst
withall
consider
the
honesty
of
the
man
.
For
whereas
he
alleadgeth
out
of
S.
Hierome
that
S.
Hilarion
gaue
precise
order
at
his
death
to
be
buryed
in
his
Coat
of
hayre
Cloth
,
his
homely
Cloake
,
and
his
hood
,
and
not
●o
be
kept
aboue
ground
one
minute
of
an
hower
,
S
Hierome
hauing
sayd
so
(
and
presently
after
declared
in
a
few
lynes
his
death
,
&
speedy
buriall
)
addeth
that
a
deare
disciple
of
his
called
Hesychius
being
then
absent
from
him
in
Palestina
,
and
hearing
of
his
death
,
went
to
Cyprus
,
where
Hilarion
dyed
,
&
obteyned
to
dwell
in
the
garden
where
he
was
buryed
,
and
after
ten
monethes
found
meanes
to
steale
away
his
body
,
&
transported
it
to
Mayona
in
Palestina
,
being
accompanied
with
multitudes
of
monks
,
and
people
of
the
townes
adioyning
,
and
there
buryed
it
in
an
auncient
monastery
,
his
Coate
,
Hood
,
and
Cloake
,
being
still
whole
,
&
toto
corpore
,
quasi
adhuc
viueret
integro
,
tantisque
fragrante
odoribus
,
vt
delibutum
vnguentis
putaretur
,
and
all
his
body
being
vncorrupt
,
and
entyre
,
as
if
he
were
yet
aliue
;
and
so
fragrant
with
sweet
odours
,
that
it
might
be
thought
to
haue
byn
annoynted
with
sweet
oyntments
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Hierome
,
who
also
relateth
immediately
after
,
the
deuotion
Constantiae
,
sayth
he
,
illius
sanctissima
mulieris
,
of
the
most
holy
woman
Constantia
,
who
was
wont
peruigiles
in
sepulchro
eius
noctes
ducere
,
to
passe
whole
nights
watching
at
his
tomb
,
&
quasi
cum
presente
ad
adiuuandas
orationes
suas
,
sermocinari
,
and
to
conferre
with
him
,
as
if
he
had
beene
present
to
help
&
further
her
prayers
.
Finally
S.
Hierome
concludeth
,
that
there
was
a
wonderfull
contention
,
euen
vntill
that
very
day
betwixt
the
people
of
Cyprus
&
Palestin●
affirming
that
they
had
the
one
his
body
,
and
the
other
his
spirit
,
by
reason
of
the
great
miracles
,
which
were
dayly
done
in
both
places
,
albeit
they
were
more
frequent
in
the
garden
of
Cyprus
:
Forsitan
(
fayth
S.
Hierom
)
quia
plus
illum
locum
dilexerit
,
perhaps
because
he
loued
that
place
better
.
Thus
sayth
this
ancient
Father
.
86.
Now
then
out
of
al
this
,
foure
things
may
be
gathered
.
The
first
,
that
Almighty
God
rewarded
his
seruants
euen
in
this
world
,
with
the
honour
which
he
out
of
his
profound
humility
fled
,
and
thought
himselfe
vnworthy
of
.
The
second
that
his
diuine
Maiesty
did
manifestly
confirme
,
the
vse
,
veneration
,
and
translation
of
holy
reliques
,
aswel
by
the
miraculous
preseruation
of
his
seruants
body
incorrupt
,
as
also
by
the
fragrant
odour
that
issued
out
of
it
;
for
therby
it
euidently
appeared
that
God
of
his
diuine
prouidence
ordayned
that
the
body
should
be
taken
vp
,
&
translated
in
such
sort
as
it
was
;
for
if
it
should
haue
still
remained
buryed
,
vnseene
,
and
hidden
(
as
Hylarion
out
of
his
humility
desyred
it
should
)
these
miracles
had
beene
in
vaine
,
and
to
no
purpose
;
which
were
absurd
and
impious
,
to
say
of
any
worke
of
God
,
and
especially
of
any
of
his
extraordinary
and
miraculous
workes
,
which
euer
tend
to
his
greater
glory
,
and
either
to
the
edification
,
instruction
,
and
benefit
of
his
seruants
,
or
els
to
the
confusion
,
and
punishment
of
his
enemyes
.
87.
The
third
thing
which
may
be
gathered
of
this
history
,
is
not
only
that
it
was
the
custome
of
holy
&
deuout
people
at
that
tyme
to
watch
whole
nights
in
continuall
prayer
at
the
tombes
&
monuments
of
holy
men
deceased
,
but
also
that
Almighty
God
did
satisfy
their
deuotion
,
yea
,
&
stir
them
thereto
by
frequent
miracles
,
approuing
thereby
the
honour
that
was
done
to
his
seruants
,
according
to
our
Sauiours
promise
in
the
holy
Scripture
:
Si
quis
mihi
ministrauerit
,
honorificabit
eum
pater
meus
,
if
any
man
do
serue
me
,
my
Father
will
honour
him
.
Ioan
.
12.
88.
Lastly
,
by
all
this
it
appeareth
euidently
,
that
M.
Collins
hath
a
deplorable
conscience
,
that
makes
no
scruple
to
dissemble
such
important
proofes
of
the
vse
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
as
these
are
&
to
obiect
such
a
trifle
as
heere
he
doth
,
out
of
the
same
place
,
which
also
rather
fortifyeth
our
cause
,
then
any
way
impugneth
it
,
seing
that
it
appeareth
thereby
,
that
the
Reliques
of
holy
men
,
were
at
that
tyme
had
in
great
veneration
;
for
otherwayes
,
what
should
moue
this
holy
man
S.
Hylari●n
,
to
feare
,
that
he
should
be
pickled
vp
in
Reliques
(
as
M.
Collins
prophanly
speaketh
)
but
that
he
knew
it
to
be
vsuall
in
the
Church
to
reserue
the
Reliques
of
such
as
had
the
reputation
of
extraordinary
sanctity
,
especially
of
those
by
whome
Almighty
God
had
done
so
many
miracles
,
as
he
had
done
by
him
,
albeit
he
for
his
part
esteemed
himselfe
altogeather
vnworthy
,
as
well
of
the
fauors
,
which
he
had
receaued
of
Almighty
God
,
as
of
the
opinion
which
the
world
had
conceaued
of
him
.
Thus
much
concerning
S.
Hylarion
.
89.
The
like
may
be
sayd
of
S.
Antony
,
whose
holy
life
was
no
lesse
glorious
in
miracles
then
the
former
,
in
so
much
that
he
was
held
in
his
tyme
for
a
miracle
,
and
wonder
of
the
world
,
as
appeareth
by
the
history
of
his
life
written
by
S.
Athanasius
;
&
albeit
he
also
ordained
to
be
buryed
secretly
,
&
charged
his
disciples
that
they
should
not
let
any
man
know
the
place
of
his
buryall
(
in
which
respect
it
is
doubtfull
,
as
S.
Hierome
witnesseth
,
whether
Hilarion
obtayned
of
them
to
see
it
)
yet
it
pleased
God
to
reueale
it
about
a
hundred
years
after
,
in
the
tyme
of
Iustinian
the
Emperour
,
wherby
his
reliques
were
found
,
digged
vp
,
&
translated
to
Alexandria
,
as
testify
Ado
,
Vsuardus
,
Sigebertus
,
Marianus
Scotus
,
Crispinian
,
and
S.
Bede
our
Countreyman
,
who
in
his
Martyrloge
16.
Calend
.
Febr
.
sayth
,
that
S.
Antonyes
body
being
found
by
diuine
reuelation
was
brought
to
Alexandria
,
and
buryed
there
in
the
Church
of
S.
Iohn
Baptist
.
So
he
.
Loe
then
how
Almighty
God
honoured
the
memory
,
and
reliques
of
him
,
who
whilest
he
liued
desired
they
should
not
be
honoured
;
God
so
disposing
(
as
I
haue
signifyed
before
)
for
his
owne
greater
glory
,
&
the
reward
of
his
seruants
humility
,
whereby
it
appeareth
what
a
silly
obiection
M.
Collins
hath
made
against
the
veneration
of
holy
reliques
seeing
it
ser●eth
for
no
other
purpose
,
but
to
testify
,
&
proue
the
humility
of
those
holy
Monks
,
and
withall
to
shew
his
weakne●
,
&
want
of
better
arguments
to
impugne
this
most
ancient
custom
of
Gods
Church
,
acknowledged
,
and
practised
by
so
many
ancient
,
and
hol
Fathers
,
as
you
haue
heard
already
,
and
confirmed
by
infinite
miracles
,
yea
and
sufficiently
witnessed
,
euen
by
those
examples
,
&
in
those
places
of
the
Fathers
,
which
he
ha●h
heere
produced
:
what
conscience
then
hath
he
,
or
what
honesty
,
who
seeketh
to
deceaue
,
and
delude
his
Readers
with
a
bare
shew
of
the
Authority
of
Fathers
,
when
he
himselfe
seeth
that
they
are
flatly
against
him
,
euen
in
those
places
,
which
he
alleadgeth
.
90.
And
heerof
I
may
add
yet
this
further
proofe
that
euen
in
this
conclusion
of
his
discourse
wherein
he
promiseth
,
to
end
with
S.
Hierome
,
he
abuseth
him
notably
,
not
only
in
dissembling
all
that
which
witnesseth
the
honour
done
to
the
reliques
of
S.
Hylarion
,
and
the
continuall
miracles
which
Almighty
God
wrought
thereby
,
but
also
in
carping
at
him
,
and
reprouing
him
sharply
,
thogh
he
doth
not
name
him
,
but
me
,
and
other
Catholiks
;
as
he
delt
before
in
the
like
manner
,
with
S.
Augustine
,
as
I
obserued
cap
.
8.
num
.
37.
&
sequent
.
91.
For
he
chargeth
vs
heere
with
seeking
the
liuing
amongst
the
dead
,
contrary
,
sayth
he
,
to
the
commandment
of
God
,
because
we
professe
to
worship
Christ
in
Reliques
;
and
for
the
proofe
therof
he
alleadgeth
my
Adioynder
,
saying
:
as
you
sticke
not
to
triumph
num
.
25.
In
which
number
neuerthelesse
,
I
do
but
only
relate
S.
Hieromes
discourse
against
Vigilantius
,
whom
he
confuteth
notably
by
the
practise
,
and
custome
of
the
whole
Church
,
alleadging
to
that
end
two
examples
of
the
solemn
translation
of
holy
reliques
:
the
first
of
the
reliques
of
S.
Andrew
,
S.
Luke
,
and
S.
Tymothy
in
tyme
of
Constantine
the
Great
,
and
the
other
of
the
Reliques
of
Samuel
the
Prophet
translated
from
Iudaea
to
Chalcedon
in
Thracia
,
carryed
by
Bishops
most
sumptuously
and
triumphantly
in
a
golden
vessel
,
and
met
,
receaued
,
and
accompanied
by
the
people
of
all
the
churches
by
the
way
,
sounding
forth
(
sayth
S.
Hierom
)
the
prayse
of
Christ
with
one
voice
all
along
as
they
went
:
whereupon
S.
Hierome
asketh
Vigilantius
,
whether
he
tooke
Arcadius
the
Emperour
(
who
caused
this
to
be
done
)
and
al
the
Bishops
which
carryed
those
reliques
,
and
all
the
people
that
accompanyed
them
,
for
fools
,
and
sacrilegious
persons
;
and
finally
he
concludeth
,
deryding
the
folly
of
Vigilantius
,
saying
viz.
Adorabant
Samuelem
non
Christum
,
cuius
Samuel
&
Leuita
&
Propheta
fuit
,
belike
they
adored
Samuel
and
not
Christ
,
whose
Leuite
,
&
Prophet
Samuel
was
.
92.
Thus
far
I
cyted
S.
Hierome
,
and
then
I
concluded
,
that
he
shewed
therein
the
absurdity
of
Vigilantius
,
who
did
thinke
that
Christ
was
not
adored
in
all
this
,
but
Samuel
only
;
whereas
all
the
reuerence
and
honor
done
by
those
Bishops
to
Samuel
was
indeed
(
according
to
S.
Hieromes
discourse
)
done
to
Christ
,
whose
Leuite
and
Prophet
Samuel
was
;
because
(
as
S.
Hierome
also
sayd
before
)
the
honor
of
the
seruants
redoundeth
to
their
Lord
;
and
this
is
all
which
I
sayd
num
.
25.
Whereupon
M.
Collins
chargeth
me
,
and
other
Catholiques
to
seeke
the
liuing
amongst
the
dead
,
contrary
to
the
commaundement
of
God
;
whereas
you
see
euidently
,
that
I
doe
but
relate
S.
Hieromes
discourse
,
who
therefore
is
the
man
that
sought
the
liuing
amongst
the
dead
,
and
not
only
he
,
but
also
those
Bishops
,
who
accompanyed
the
Reliques
of
Samuel
,
sounding
forth
(
as
S.
Hierome
sayth
)
the
praise
of
Christ
all
the
way
as
they
went
,
&
consequently
honouring
Christ
in
the
Reliques
of
Samuel
,
which
with
M.
Collins
is
to
seeke
the
liuing
amongst
the
dead
,
contrary
to
the
commandement
of
God
;
whereby
it
appeareth
what
respect
he
beareth
to
S.
Hierome
,
and
to
the
ancient
Fathers
,
when
he
can
vpon
any
occasion
taxe
,
or
contradict
them
vnder
hand
,
albeit
he
would
haue
his
Readers
belieue
,
that
he
honoureth
them
much
,
and
teacheth
no
other
doctrine
,
but
that
which
is
theirs
,
or
most
consonant
thereunto
.
93.
Well
then
you
haue
now
seene
M.
Collins
his
deepe
discourse
against
holy
Reliques
,
being
the
very
quintessence
of
his
skill
,
drawne
out
of
the
limbecke
of
an
hereticall
brayne
,
and
therefore
sophisticated
with
so
much
fraud
,
as
no
man
,
that
should
not
euidently
see
it
(
as
you
haue
done
)
would
belieue
it
of
any
man
that
hath
the
face
,
and
reputation
of
an
honest
man
,
and
much
lesse
of
a
man
of
his
profession
and
quality
.
My
Lord
of
Winchester
being
charged
in
the
Adioynder
with
inexcusable
falsity
in
the
manifest
abuse
of
S.
Augustine
,
is
abandoned
by
his
champion
M.
Collins
:
in
whome
also
three
notable
frauds
are
discouered
●ouching
one
sentence
of
the
same
holy
Father
;
and
that
he
hath
shamefully
belyed
Cardinall
Bellarmine
Lastly
the
veneration
,
and
translation
of
holy
Reliques
,
and
the
custom
to
carry
them
in
procession
,
is
clearely
proued
out
of
S.
Augustine
.
CHAP.
XII
.
FOR
as
much
as
M.
Collins
hath
alleadged
S.
Augustine
to
patronize
his
impugnation
of
holy
Reliques
,
I
will
conclude
this
my
reply
with
the
relation
of
what
I
debated
in
my
Adioynder
with
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
concerning
certaine
cleare
testimonyes
of
S.
Augustines
beliefe
&
doctrine
,
touching
holy
reliques
;
&
this
I
will
do
the
rather
,
because
by
occasion
therof
I
charged
my
Lord
with
a
notable
abuse
of
S.
Augustin
,
&
an
inexcusable
fraud
which
M.
Collins
was
in
reason
,
and
honesty
bound
to
defend
,
and
therefore
we
will
now
see
how
well
he
hath
performed
it
.
1.
Thus
then
I
sayd
in
my
Adyoinder
Chap.
9.
num
.
64.
Wheras
the
Cardinall
produceth
the
euident
&
cleere
testimony
of
S.
Augustine
,
to
proue
that
many
Miracles
were
done
by
the
Reliques
of
S.
Stephen
in
Affrick
,
M.
Andrews
wisheth
the
Cardinall
to
consider
how
be
can
well
and
handsomly
reconcile
Augustine
with
Augustine
concerning
those
Miracles
,
and
his
reason
is
,
because
Augustine
saith
in
an
Epistle
to
his
Clergie
,
and
all
the
people
of
Hyppo
,
Nusquam
hic
in
Africa
,
talia
fieri
se
scire
:
he
knew
that
such
things
were
not
don
any
wher
in
Africk
,
which
I
beseech
thee
good
Reader
to
note
,
and
thou
shalt
euidently
see
the
good
Conscience
of
M.
Andrews
,
who
abuseth
S.
Augustine
notably
two
wayes
;
the
one
in
making
him
seeme
to
contradict
himselfe
most
manifestly
,
yea
and
to
giue
himselfe
,
as
it
were
,
the
lye
,
witnessing
in
one
place
matters
of
fact
vpon
his
owne
knowledge
,
(
for
so
he
testifieth
those
Miracles
done
by
S.
Stephens
reliques
,
)
and
in
another
place
affirming
that
he
knew
the
same
to
be
false
,
for
so
must
it
needes
be
,
if
he
knewe
that
such
thinges
were
not
done
any
where
in
Africk
.
The
other
abuse
is
,
in
that
he
peruerteth
the
sense
of
S.
Augustines
Epistle
,
as
it
will
easely
appeare
,
if
we
consider
the
occasion
why
S.
Augustine
wrote
the
same
;
which
therefore
I
think
good
heere
to
relate
.
2.
A
scandalous
quarrell
being
fallen
out
betwixt
a
Chaplaine
of
S.
Augustine
,
and
a
yong
man
concerning
an
infamous
calumnation
raysed
by
the
yong
man
against
the
Preist
(
whereof
the
truth
could
not
be
tried
or
knowne
,
because
the
matter
depended
wholly
vpon
their
owne
oathes
,
and
testimonyes
)
S.
Augustin
aduised
them
to
goe
to
Nola
in
Italy
to
the
body
of
S.
Faelix
,
where
it
pleased
God
ordinarily
in
like
cases
to
discouer
periuries
,
by
the
miraculous
punishment
of
the
periured
person
;
&
of
this
he
thought
good
afterwards
to
giue
account
vnto
his
Clergie
and
People
for
their
satisfaction
,
which
he
did
by
the
Epistle
that
M.
Andrews
citeth
,
wherein
discoursing
,
by
the
occasion
of
this
matter
,
why
Almighty
God
doth
such
Miracles
in
some
place
,
and
not
in
others
,
he
saith
,
Multis
notissima
est
sanctitas
loci
&c.
Many
do
verie
well
knowe
the
holynes
of
the
place
,
where
lyeth
the
bodie
of
Blessed
Faelix
of
Nolae
,
whither
I
ordeyned
them
to
go
,
because
from
thence
I
might
more
easely
&
truly
vnderstand
by
letters
whatsoeuer
it
should
please
God
to
manifest
in
either
of
them
.
So
he
;
and
then
hauing
added
,
that
also
in
Millan
a
periured
theefe
was
discouered
miraculously
at
the
Monuments
of
certaine
Saints
,
and
forced
to
restore
that
which
he
had
stolne
,
he
saith
further
thus
,
Numquid
non
Africa
&c.
Is
not
Aff●ick
full
of
the
bodies
of
holy
Martyrs
?
&
tamen
nusquam
hic
scimus
talia
fieri
&c.
And
neuerthelesse
we
know
that
such
things
(
that
is
to
say
Miracls
in
this
kind
)
are
not
don
anywhere
here
in
Africk
.
For
euen
as
the
Apostle
sayth
,
that
al
holy
men
haue
not
the
guifts
of
healing
,
so
also
he
who
diuideth
things
proper
,
or
peculiar
to
euery
one
as
it
pleaseth
him
,
would
not
haue
these
things
to
be
done
at
all
the
memories
or
monuments
of
Saynts
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
.
3.
Whereby
I
doubt
not
,
but
thou
seest
,
good
Reader
,
in
what
sense
he
denieth
Miracles
to
haue
byn
done
in
Affrick
,
that
is
to
say
,
such
Miracles
as
were
done
at
the
body
of
S.
Faelix
,
for
the
discouery
and
punishment
of
periury
,
&
not
such
as
he
testifieth
els
where
,
to
haue
byn
ordinarily
done
at
the
Reliques
of
S.
Stephen
,
wherof
he
recounteth
such
a
multitude
,
with
such
asseueration
of
his
owne
knowledge
therof
,
and
publique
testimony
of
an
infinite
number
of
witnesses
,
and
such
particuler
relation
of
circumstances
,
tymes
,
and
places
,
that
a
man
must
hould
him
for
the
most
impudent
lyar
,
that
euer
wrote
,
if
they
were
not
most
true
.
Besides
,
that
writing
the
same
,
as
he
did
for
the
proofe
of
Christian
Religion
against
Pagans
,
and
Infidells
,
it
cannot
without
extreme
folly
be
imagined
that
such
a
learned
,
wise
,
and
holy
man
,
as
he
,
would
be
so
prodigall
not
only
of
his
owne
credit
,
and
reputation
,
but
also
of
the
honour
of
Christian
Religion
,
as
to
expose
the
same
to
the
derision
of
the
Paynims
,
by
seking
to
confirme
it
by
fables
and
lyes
,
which
euery
man
in
those
parts
(
as
well
the
Paynims
themselues
as
others
)
might
haue
controlled
,
&
would
haue
derided
,
if
they
had
byn
faigned
.
4.
Finally
,
these
miracles
of
S.
Stephen
which
M.
Andrewes
calleth
here
in
question
,
are
testified
by
S.
Augustine
in
that
worke
which
M.
Andrews
himselfe
so
much
esteemeth
els
where
,
that
alledging
out
of
it
a
sentence
which
he
thought
might
make
for
him
,
he
calleth
it
Opus
palmare
de
ciuitate
Dei
,
the
principall
or
most
excellent
worke
of
Augustine
of
the
Citty
of
God
.
And
yet
now
he
would
faine
disgrace
it
,
or
rather
S.
Augustin
himselfe
by
the
imputation
of
a
contradiction
,
which
he
would
the
Reader
should
suppose
to
be
betwixt
it
,
and
the
foresaid
Epistle
of
S.
Augustine
;
wheras
you
see
(
and
M.
Andrews
knoweth
it
in
his
owne
conscience
)
that
there
is
no
contradiction
in
the
world
betwixt
them
,
but
that
both
of
them
do
notably
and
clearly
testify
the
ancient
and
venerable
vse
of
holy
Reliques
,
and
the
miraculous
assistance
,
and
helpe
that
God
giueth
to
his
faithfull
people
thereby
,
and
by
the
praiers
and
Reliques
of
his
holy
Martyrs
&
Saints
.
So
that
truly
a
man
may
wonder
at
the
impudency
,
and
seared
Conscience
of
M.
Andrews
,
who
seeketh
to
delude
his
Reader
with
such
a
fraudulent
and
inexcusable
abuse
of
this
holy
Father
.
5.
Thus
sayd
I
in
my
Adioynder
,
wherein
I
doubt
not
,
but
thou
seest
,
good
Reader
,
matter
right
worthy
to
be
answered
by
M.
Collins
for
the
defence
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
whom
I
charged
deeply
with
egregious
fraud
,
and
abuse
of
S.
Augustine
.
Neuerthelesse
I
may
well
say
,
that
M.
Collins
obmutuit
,
is
as
dumbe
as
a
Dogge
,
for
he
sayth
not
one
word
to
it
,
but
abandoneth
his
Lordship
quite
,
leauing
him
to
answer
for
himselfe
,
as
he
hath
done
before
diuers
tymes
.
And
whereas
my
discourse
in
my
Adioynder
,
contayned
also
important
matter
for
the
proofe
of
the
vse
,
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
(
by
reason
of
S.
Augustines
vndoubted
testimony
of
notable
miracles
done
as
well
at
the
body
of
S.
Faelix
in
Nola
,
and
the
monuments
of
certaine
Saints
in
Millan
as
also
at
the
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
in
Afrike
)
M.
Collins
is
no
lesse
silent
thereto
,
then
to
what
I
obiected
to
my
Lord
,
omitting
all
mention
of
either
of
both
in
this
place
,
I
meane
,
in
his
ninth
Chapter
.
But
afterwards
in
his
answere
to
my
tenth
Chapter
(
where
I
had
occasion
to
alleadge
againe
the
same
testimony
of
Saint
Augustine
)
he
thought
good
to
say
somewhat
thereto
,
though
he
doth
it
with
so
grosse
,
and
palpable
fraud
,
that
I
cannot
omit
to
discou●r
it
,
and
as
I
hope
shall
leaue
him
speachles
.
Thus
then
he
fayth
pag
.
447.
lin
.
29.
6.
S.
Augustine
,
in
his
whole
Chapter
de
ciuitate
Dei
l.
22.
cap
.
8.
neuer
stands
for
miracles
,
to
proue
new
doctrines
b●
,
but
only
the
old
(
as
was
decla●ed
before
)
●nd
therefore
you
shall
gayne
nothing
from
thence
,
who
alleadge
new
miracles
to
authorize
new
articles
,
as
praying
to
Saints
,
and
worshiping
of
reliques
,
and
such
like
conceipts
,
though
we
should
subscribe
to
all
which
S.
Augustine
reports
,
with
no
lesse
promptnes
then
your selues
,
that
is
more
then
he
may
be
wel
thought
to
do
.
For
one
tyme
he
confesseth
of
the
aforesayd
wonders
,
that
,
Non
sunt
tanta
autoritate
commendata
&c.
They
are
not
of
such
authority
,
as
straight
wayes
to
be
belieued
,
though
betweene
one
faythfull
man
,
and
another
.
Another
tyme
he
sayes
:
That
as
soone
as
they
are
told
they
are
cleane
forgotten
,
&
no
body
relates
them
to
them
that
did
not
heare
them
,
as
they
were
rehearsed
de
libello
,
nor
no
body
remembers
them
any
long
tyme
himselfe
.
His
wordes
are
:
Nec
(
admodum
)
innotescunt
,
neque
vt
non
excidant
animo
,
quasi
glarea
memoriae
crebra
lectione
tunduntur
:
wheras
if
they
were
diuine
miracles
,
why
should
they
not
be
diuulged
throughout
the
whole
world
,
euen
wheresoeuer
the
Ghospell
is
preached
,
as
our
Sauiour
sayd
of
the
Charity
of
that
good
woman
that
annoynted
his
feet
?
Againe
:
Semel
hoc
audiunt
qui
adsunt
,
pluresque
non
adsunt
,
vt
nec
illi
qui
affuerunt
post
aliquot
dies
mente
retineant
,
&
vix
quisquam
reperiatur
illorum
,
qui
ei
quem
non
affuisse
cognouerit
,
iudicet
quod
audiuit
.
7.
Thus
farre
doth
M.
Collins
alleadge
S.
Augustine
his
text
,
hoping
to
perswade
his
Reader
therby
,
that
S.
Augustine
did
not
hold
those
miracles
which
he
related
,
to
be
diuine
miracles
,
not
to
be
of
such
authority
as
to
deserue
to
be
diuulged
throughout
the
world
,
as
diuine
miracles
ought
to
be
.
But
to
the
end
that
thou
mayst
see
good
Reader
,
how
shamfully
he
seeketh
to
abuse
thee
,
peruerting
S.
Augustine
his
sense
cleane
contrary
to
his
meaning
,
thou
shalt
vnderstand
,
that
S.
Augustine
throughout
all
that
worthy
work
of
his
de
ciuitate
Dei
,
wryteth
purposely
against
the
Paymins
,
and
hauing
vrged
in
the
22.
booke
,
the
conuersion
of
the
world
to
the
fayth
of
Christ
by
miracles
,
he
obiecteth
against
himself
in
behalfe
of
the
Paynins
thus
:
Cur
inquiunt
,
nunc
illa
miracula
quae
praedicatis
facta
esse
,
non
fiunt
?
why
are
not
those
miracles
done
now
which
you
say
were
then
done
?
Wher●o
he
answereth
,
that
he
might
say
that
those
miracles
were
then
necessary
before
the
world
did
beleiue
,
to
the
end
that
it
might
beleiue
,
and
that
whosoeuer
would
seeke
for
new
miracles
to
belieue
in
Christ
,
now
when
the
whole
world
belieueth
,
he
is
to
be
held
for
a
prodigious
wonder
.
8.
But
,
sayth
he
,
The
Paynims
do
say
this
,
for
no
other
cause
,
but
because
they
do
not
belieue
that
those
miracles
were
then
done
;
thus
fayth
S.
Augustine
,
and
thereupon
he
vrgeth
the
cred
it
,
and
authority
of
the
holy
Scriptures
,
receaued
and
belieued
throughout
the
Christian
world
,
whereby
those
miracles
,
testifying
the
diuinity
of
Christ
,
are
not
only
published
,
but
also
belieued
,
&
authorized
euery
where
:
and
then
comming
to
that
which
M.
Collins
obiecteth
,
he
sayth
first
thus
:
Nam
etiam
nunc
fiunt
miracula
in
eius
nomine
&c.
For
miracles
are
also
done
now
in
his
name
,
either
by
his
Sacraments
,
or
by
the
prayers
or
memoryes
of
his
Saints
,
but
they
are
not
so
cleare
and
famous
,
as
to
be
published
with
as
great
glory
as
the
other
;
for
the
Canon
of
the
holy
Scripture
,
which
was
to
be
euery
where
diuulged
,
doth
make
them
to
be
read
euerywhere
,
and
to
be
fixed
in
the
memory
of
all
people
,
but
these
miracles
which
are
now
done
are
skant
knowne
by
all
the
Citty
or
place
wher
they
were
done
.
For
it
so
falleth
out
very
often
,
that
they
are
knowne
but
to
a
few
,
the
rest
being
ignorant
of
them
,
especially
if
the
Citty
be
great
,
and
when
they
are
tould
elswhere
to
others
,
the
authority
which
recommendeth
them
is
not
so
great
,
that
they
are
fully
belieued
without
doubt
,
or
difficulty
,
albeit
they
be
related
by
faythfull
Christians
one
to
another
.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
.
9.
Now
then
this
being
the
first
part
of
that
which
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
(
but
lamely
as
you
haue
seene
)
I
remit
it
to
any
mans
iudgment
,
whether
S.
Augustine
doe
heerby
deny
,
either
that
the
miracls
wherof
he
spake
,
were
diuine
miracles
,
or
that
they
ought
to
be
published
euery
where
;
seeing
all
that
he
sayth
is
in
substance
this
;
that
the
miracles
since
Christs
tyme
,
&
the
Apostles
(
not
testifyed
in
the
holy
Scripture
)
neither
are
,
nor
can
be
so
generally
knowne
,
and
belieued
as
those
which
are
mentioned
in
the
Scriptures
,
because
these
later
miracles
,
are
not
knowne
,
and
belieued
,
but
in
particuler
places
,
neyther
yet
so
fully
belieued
of
all
the
Christians
that
are
in
those
places
,
or
heare
of
them
,
as
those
other
which
the
Scripture
relateth
,
because
the
Scripture
being
generally
receaued
,
&
belieued
euery
where
as
infallibly
true
,
giueth
also
vndoubted
credit
,
and
authority
euery
where
to
the
miracles
which
are
witnessed
,
and
related
therein
.
10.
How
then
doth
it
follow
heerō
that
these
later
miracles
are
not
diuine
miracles
?
For
he
that
should
say
so
,
must
also
say
that
Almighty
God
neuer
did
miracle
since
the
Apostles
tyme
,
because
later
miracles
are
not
related
in
Scripture
.
But
S.
Augustine
contradicteth
this
expresly
,
for
hauing
recounted
a
great
number
of
miracles
done
at
the
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
he
concludeth
thus
:
Fiunt
ergo
etiam
nunc
multa
miracula
,
eodem
Deo
faciente
,
per
quos
vult
,
&
quemadmodum
vult
,
qui
&
illa
,
quae
legimus
fecit
:
Therefore
there
are
now
also
miracles
done
,
the
same
God
doing
them
,
by
whome
he
will
,
and
as
he
will
,
who
also
did
those
which
we
read
(
in
the
Scripture
.
)
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
whereby
it
is
euident
that
he
acknowledgeth
those
miracles
which
he
had
related
to
be
diuine
miracles
,
no
lesse
then
those
which
are
mentioned
in
the
Scripture
,
seeing
that
they
were
wrought
,
as
he
sayth
,
by
the
same
God
who
wrought
the
other
.
11.
What
extreme
impudency
then
is
this
in
M.
Collins
to
inferre
vpon
S.
Augustines
words
that
the
miracles
recounted
by
him
were
not
diuine
miracles
,
when
S.
Augustine
flatly
affirmeth
that
they
were
?
Wherein
it
is
also
to
be
noted
that
those
wordes
of
S.
Augustine
,
wherein
he
affirmed
it
,
went
immediatly
before
those
,
wherupon
M.
Collins
inferreth
the
contrary
.
For
S.
Augustine
hauing
sayd
,
that
many
miracles
are
don
also
now
by
Almighty
God
,
addeth
:
Sed
nec
ista
similiter
innotescunt
&c.
which
later
wordes
,
M.
Collins
layeth
downe
,
omitting
the
former
,
&
then
glosseth
the
later
thus
:
Wheras
(
sayth
he
)
if
these
were
diuine
miracles
,
why
should
they
not
be
diuulged
throughout
the
world
&c.
signifying
that
the
later
miracles
(
whereof
S.
Augustine
speaketh
)
were
not
diuulged
ouer
all
the
world
,
because
they
were
not
diuine
miracles
;
whereas
neuerthelesse
S.
Augustine
sayd
immediatly
before
,
that
they
were
done
by
Almighty
God
,
who
did
those
other
also
which
were
read
in
holy
Scripture
,
so
as
he
only
maketh
this
difference
betwixt
the
one
,
and
the
other
,
that
those
in
the
Scripture
,
are
published
,
diuulged
,
&
belieued
,
euery
where
by
all
Christian
people
,
&
the
other
are
not
so
diuulged
,
and
belieued
;
but
only
knowne
and
belieued
in
certaine
places
,
and
by
particuler
persons
,
though
they
be
diuine
miracles
no
lesse
then
the
former
.
12.
Furthermore
,
it
is
to
be
obserued
for
the
further
discouery
of
his
fraud
heerin
,
that
he
not
only
dissembleth
the
beginning
of
the
sentence
(
which
maketh
flatly
against
him
)
but
also
changeth
in
the
later
part
(
which
he
alleadgeth
)
an
important
,
&
significant
word
which
sheweth
the
dependance
of
that
which
he
cyteth
vpon
the
former
part
,
which
he
concealeth
.
For
whereas
S.
Augustine
speaking
of
the
later
miracles
,
sayth
:
Nec
ista
similiter
innotescunt
,
M.
Collins
alleadgeth
it
,
Nec
ista
admodum
innotescunt
,
wherin
this
difference
is
to
be
noted
,
that
the
word
simliter
doth
import
a
comparison
of
the
later
miracles
,
with
other
which
he
hath
mentioned
before
,
that
is
to
say
,
with
miracles
testifyed
by
holy
Scripture
;
and
therfore
hauing
sayd
that
God
doth
miracles
now
,
Qui
&
illa
quae
legiimus
fecit
;
who
did
all
those
which
we
read
in
Scripture
,
he
addeth
presently
,
Sed
nec
ista
similiter
innotescunt
&c.
But
these
(
later
miracles
)
are
not
diuulged
(
or
generally
knowne
)
in
like
manner
as
the
other
&c.
13.
This
then
being
the
true
sense
,
&
meaning
of
S.
Augustine
,
it
is
euident
that
in
this
one
sentence
of
his
,
there
may
be
noted
three
notable
fraudes
of
M.
Collins
.
The
first
,
his
lame
cytation
of
it
,
omitting
the
first
part
of
the
sentence
,
whereupon
the
later
dependeth
.
The
second
,
the
change
of
similiter
into
admodum
in
the
later
part
,
because
similiter
might
discouer
the
dependance
of
the
later
part
vpon
the
former
.
The
third
(
which
is
one
of
the
notablest
falsityes
that
euer
I
saw
)
his
false
inference
vpon
the
second
part
,
flatte
contrary
to
the
expresse
wordes
of
the
former
,
which
therefore
he
wittingly
,
and
purposely
concealed
:
so
as
it
is
hard
to
say
,
whether
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
or
M.
Collins
,
haue
more
abused
S.
Augustine
about
the
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
.
My
Lord
vpon
pretence
of
an
Epistle
of
S.
Augustines
,
which
he
most
willfully
peruerteth
,
calleth
in
question
,
whether
there
were
euer
any
such
miracles
done
or
no
,
notwithstanding
S.
Augustine
his
euident
testimony
therof
vpon
his
owne
knowledg
;
M.
Collins
though
he
will
not
deny
that
such
miracles
were
done
,
yet
he
laboureth
to
perswade
his
Reader
,
that
S.
Augustine
did
not
make
any
great
accompt
of
them
,
especially
as
of
diuine
miracles
:
&
to
this
purpose
he
hath
egregiously
peruerted
as
you
see
,
both
S.
Augustines
text
,
and
meaning
,
contrary
to
his
expresse
words
,
in
so
much
that
both
my
Lord
and
his
Champion
do
make
S.
Augustine
contradict
himselfe
expresly
,
and
deny
that
which
he
constantly
affirmeth
.
14.
Neuertheles
M.
Collins
not
content
with
this
,
addeth
another
fraud
touching
the
same
point
,
no
lesse
remarkable
then
the
former
:
for
whereas
I
vrged
in
my
Adioynder
that
these
miracles
recounted
by
S.
Augustine
,
were
a
manifest
confirmation
of
the
vse
and
veneration
of
holy
Reliques
,
he
answereth
pag
.
441.
lin
.
21.
that
,
Non
sequitur
consequentia
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
,
Witnes
,
sayth
he
,
Bellarmine
himselfe
,
lib
.
4.
cap
.
14.
de
notis
Ecclesiae
.
And
this
M.
Collins
affirmeth
afterwardes
againe
pag
.
449.
lin
.
7.
saying
thus
:
This
is
starke
false
that
Miracls
done
at
Saints
bodyes
infer
the
honour
which
you
challeng
to
them
,
by
any
probable
consequence
,
as
Bellarmine
denyes
about
Hieremyes
body
,
and
was
quoted
to
you
a
little
before
out
of
his
booke
de
notis
Ecclesiae
.
Thus
sayth
M.
Collins
.
15.
But
Bellarmine
in
that
Chapter
which
he
quoteth
hath
no
such
thing
,
but
rather
the
contrary
;
for
he
teacheth
and
proueth
there
,
that
miracles
are
not
only
necessary
,
but
also
sufficient
to
proue
a
new
fayth
;
and
amongst
the
obiections
of
our
aduersaryes
,
he
hath
this
(
out
of
Caluins
preface
to
his
Institutions
,
and
the
Magdeburgenses
)
that
true
miracles
do
confirme
the
Ghospell
(
Marci
vltimo
)
and
that
these
miracles
of
ours
doe
ouerthrow
it
,
and
confirme
Idolatry
,
that
is
(
say
they
)
the
worship
of
reliques
,
&
Images
,
the
inuocation
of
Saints
,
Masse
&c.
So
as
according
to
Bellarmine
,
our
Aduersayes
themselues
doe
graunt
that
the
consequence
is
good
,
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
.
16.
For
if
true
miracles
confirme
the
Ghospell
,
then
consequently
they
do
confirme
the
true
worship
of
God
,
which
is
taught
,
and
deliuered
by
the
Ghospel
;
and
conforme
to
this
,
our
Aduersaryes
do
also
affirme
that
our
miracles
(
which
they
will
needs
haue
to
be
false
miracles
)
do
confirm
Idolatry
,
that
is
(
say
they
)
the
worshippe
of
Saints
,
and
Reliques
&c.
and
therefore
according
to
their
opinion
we
may
well
say
,
that
as
false
miracles
doe
confirme
false
worship
,
so
true
miracles
do
confirme
true
worship
;
whereupon
it
also
followeth
,
that
if
the
miracles
which
are
done
by
reliques
,
can
be
proued
to
be
true
miracles
,
the
worship
of
reliques
is
a
true
,
&
lawfull
worship
,
and
not
Idolatry
.
So
as
it
appeareth
euen
in
that
Chapter
of
Cardinall
Bellarmine
,
cyted
by
M.
Collins
,
that
our
Aduersaryes
themselues
do
graunt
in
their
obiection
,
that
the
consequence
is
good
,
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
;
and
the
Cardinall
doth
not
deny
it
in
the
solution
,
but
only
sayth
in
answere
of
the
obiection
thus
:
Sed
,
inquiunt
,
ista
miracula
euertunt
Euangelium
.
Respondeo
,
verum
est
,
sed
Caluini
,
non
Christi
:
vel
probent
isti
quod
tam
audacter
affirmant
.
But
they
say
that
those
miracles
(
of
ours
)
do
ouerthrow
the
Ghospell
.
I
answere
,
it
is
true
,
but
the
Ghospell
of
Caluin
,
and
not
of
Christ
,
or
els
let
them
proue
that
which
they
so
boldly
affirme
.
17.
Thus
sayth
the
Cardinall
,
and
then
proceedeth
to
the
confutation
of
foure
arguments
of
theirs
,
whereby
they
endeauour
to
proue
that
miracles
do
not
facere
certam
fidem
,
amongst
the
which
their
third
argument
is
,
that
miracles
were
done
in
tymes
past
at
the
Prophet
Hieremyes
tombe
,
by
the
illusion
of
the
Diuell
,
which
they
say
,
was
manifest
,
because
those
miracles
were
don
to
the
benefite
of
those
,
who
did
worship
Hieremy
with
sacrifices
and
diuine
honour
,
as
a
God
;
whereto
the
Cardinall
answereth
thus
:
Ad
tertium
,
sayth
he
,
dico
,
mendacium
esse
Caluini
&c.
To
the
third
,
I
say
,
that
it
is
a
lye
of
Caluin
,
that
the
people
did
worship
Hieremy
,
with
sacrifices
,
and
diuine
honours
,
for
he
bringeth
no
witnes
of
it
,
but
only
hath
in
his
margent
Hieronymus
praefatione
in
Hieremiam
.
But
neither
in
the
presace
of
Hierome
to
the
Prophet
Hieremy
whome
he
translated
,
neither
in
his
preface
to
the
Commentaryes
of
Hieremy
,
there
is
any
mention
at
all
of
this
history
:
moreouer
there
is
another
little
Preface
prefixed
before
the
Prophet
Hieremy
,
in
the
Bibles
set
forth
by
Benedictus
,
whereat
Caluin
aymed
,
as
it
seemeth
,
but
that
preface
is
not
Hieromes
,
neither
is
there
any
mention
therein
of
sacrifices
,
or
diuine
honour
,
but
only
that
miracles
were
done
at
his
sepulcher
.
Finally
Epiphanius
and
Isidore
,
in
the
life
of
Hieremy
,
do
say
indeed
that
miracles
were
done
,
but
of
sacrifices
,
or
diuyne
honour
done
vnto
him
,
they
say
nothing
.
Thus
sayth
the
Cardinall
,
and
this
is
all
he
sayth
to
that
obiection
,
or
concerning
miracles
done
at
Hieremyes
body
.
18.
Now
then
;
how
doth
the
Cardinall
deny
heere
,
the
consequence
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
?
Is
there
any
one
word
therein
,
which
may
be
wrested
to
any
such
sense
?
Wherin
al
we
see
is
,
that
Caluin
is
taken
tardy
,
and
charged
with
a
manifest
lye
;
but
of
the
Cardinalls
denyall
of
that
consequence
,
not
so
much
as
one
sillable
,
either
there
,
or
in
all
that
Chapter
,
wherein
his
speciall
drift
is
,
to
proue
that
new
miracles
are
sufficient
to
confirme
,
and
proue
any
point
of
fayth
not
belieued
,
or
taught
before
,
which
the
Cardinall
layeth
for
a
foundation
and
ground
in
the
very
beginning
of
the
Chapter
:
and
vpon
this
ground
,
&
the
reason
which
he
giueth
to
proue
the
same
,
it
followeth
directly
that
the
consequence
is
good
,
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
:
for
thus
argueth
the
Cardinall
:
Vera
miracula
(
sayth
he
)
non
possunt
fieri
,
nisi
Dei
virtute
&c.
True
miracles
cannot
be
done
,
but
by
the
power
of
God
,
and
therefore
they
are
called
in
Scripture
the
testimonyes
of
God
,
so
as
that
which
is
confirmed
by
miracle
,
is
confirmed
by
Gods
testimony
:
but
God
cannot
be
witnes
of
a
lye
;
therefore
that
which
is
confirmed
by
a
miracle
,
must
needs
be
true
.
19.
Thus
sayth
the
Cardinall
,
wherupon
it
must
needes
follow
also
,
that
if
the
worship
of
Saints
Reliques
,
or
Images
be
confirmed
by
a
true
miracle
,
it
must
needes
be
a
true
,
and
lawfull
worship
;
seeing
then
this
directly
followeth
vpon
the
Cardinals
groundes
,
discourse
,
and
doctrine
in
that
Chapter
,
M.
Collins
hath
extremely
abused
,
and
belyed
him
,
in
making
him
a
witnesse
of
the
contrary
,
viz.
that
,
Non
sequitur
consequentia
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
.
20.
Moreouer
the
Cardinall
is
so
farre
from
denying
that
consequence
,
that
in
his
second
Booke
De
beatitudine
Sanctorum
c
.
3
§
.
Quartò
probatur
,
he
proueth
directly
the
veneration
,
&
worship
of
holy
reliques
,
by
the
miracles
done
at
them
:
Quae
miracula
(
sayth
he
)
certè
non
fierent
,
si
Deo
cultus
reliquiarum
non
placeret
,
which
miracles
would
not
be
don
,
if
the
worship
of
reliques
did
not
please
God
,
whereof
he
alleadgeth
many
examples
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
in
vita
Isaiae
,
Ezechielis
,
Hieremiae
.
S.
Basil
.
orat
.
in
Mamantem
.
S.
Gregory
Nazianzen
orat
.
in
Cyprianum
.
S.
Chrysostome
in
lib
.
contra
Gent
.
Palladius
in
historia
lauriaca
c
.
26.
S.
Ambrose
serm
.
de
SS.
Geruasio
&
Protasio
.
S.
Hierome
contra
Vigilantium
.
S.
Augustine
lib
.
22.
de
ciuitate
Dei
.
cap
.
8.
21.
And
hereto
the
Cardinall
addeth
also
a
further
proof
thereof
(
§
.
Quintò
probatur
)
by
miracles
which
haue
often
beene
seene
euen
in
the
dead
bodyes
of
Saints
,
Per
quae
,
sayth
he
,
Deus
apertissimè
nos
ad
eorum
venerationem
inuitare
videtur
,
by
the
which
God
doth
manifestly
seeme
to
inuite
vs
to
the
worship
or
veneration
of
them
;
and
heerof
he
also
alleadgeth
diuers
notable
examples
,
as
out
of
S.
Chrysostome
in
his
sermon
of
the
SS.
Iuuentius
&
Maximus
,
whose
faces
he
saith
,
appeared
resplendant
after
their
death
.
Also
S.
Hierome
affirmeth
of
S.
Hilarion
,
that
his
body
was
found
entyre
after
ten
moneths
,
and
so
fragrant
that
it
might
seem
to
be
anoynnted
with
sweet
oyntments
.
S.
Augustine
witnesseth
lib
.
9.
Confess
.
cap
.
7.
that
the
bodyes
of
SS.
Geruase
and
Protase
,
were
found
whole
and
vncorrupt
.
Sulpitius
in
his
Epistle
to
Bassula
testifyed
that
the
body
of
S.
Martyn
was
after
his
death
more
like
a
glorifyed
body
,
then
the
body
of
a
dead
man
.
S.
Bonauenture
affirmeth
the
like
of
the
body
of
Saint
Francis
.
Lastly
the
Cardinall
concludeth
with
the
euident
and
dayly
experience
of
the
oyle
which
doth
miraculously
distill
from
the
body
of
S.
Andrew
the
Apostle
;
all
which
the
Cardinall
alleadgeth
to
proue
that
holy
reliques
are
to
be
worshipped
.
This
then
being
so
,
how
shameles
is
Collins
,
who
calleth
the
Cardinall
to
witnes
that
there
is
no
consequence
à
miraculis
ad
cultum
?
22.
But
to
returne
to
S.
Augustines
testimony
concerning
the
miracles
done
at
S.
Stephen
reliques
,
you
haue
seene
it
proued
euidently
,
how
notoriously
false
it
is
which
M.
Collins
hath
gathered
out
of
him
,
to
wit
,
that
he
did
not
esteeme
the
said
miracles
to
be
diuine
miracles
;
when
neuertheles
he
sayth
,
that
they
were
don
by
the
same
God
who
did
the
miracles
which
are
testified
in
holy
scripture
;
whereupon
it
followeth
that
the
honour
done
to
those
reliques
in
the
solemne
translation
,
and
circumgestation
of
them
(
to
vse
stil
M.
Collins
his
phrase
)
was
gratefull
to
Almighty
God
,
who
did
miraculously
comfort
,
and
releiue
those
who
with
deuotion
,
did
concurre
,
and
cooperate
thereto
,
or
had
recourse
to
them
;
whereby
the
sick
recouered
their
health
,
the
blynd
their
sight
,
and
the
dead
their
life
;
in
so
much
that
S.
Augustine
giueth
testimony
of
fiue
or
sixe
seuerall
dead
persons
reuyued
,
partly
by
the
application
of
somwhat
that
had
but
only
touched
the
holy
reliques
,
and
partly
by
the
oyle
of
the
lampe
that
burned
before
them
,
which
therfore
S.
Augustine
calleth
oleum
Martyris
,
the
oyle
of
the
Martyr
.
23.
And
this
I
mention
the
rather
,
because
M.
Collins
doth
formalyze
himselfe
very
seriously
against
the
custome
that
thē
was
to
apply
to
diseased
persons
the
flowers
that
had
touched
the
reliques
of
Saints
;
and
this
he
doth
by
the
occasion
of
a
miracle
related
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
S.
Augustine
de
ciuitate
Dei
,
vbi
supra
,
where
he
testifyeth
that
a
blynde
woman
was
restored
to
her
sight
,
by
applying
to
her
eyes
certaine
flowers
that
had
touched
the
holy
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
;
which
M.
Collins
laboureth
to
proue
to
haue
beene
no
good
custome
,
euen
by
the
authority
of
S.
Augustine
himselfe
,
which
I
beseech
thee
,
good
Reader
,
wel
to
note
,
and
the
notable
foolery
and
fraud
withal
of
this
idle
fellow
.
Thus
then
he
sayth
pag
.
448.
lin
.
15.
In
the
8.
booke
,
sayth
he
,
of
the
aforesaid
worke
cap
.
27.
he
(
S.
Augustine
)
allowes
not
of
meates
to
be
set
vpon
Martyrs
tombes
,
for
obteyning
of
blessing
;
a
Christianis
melioribus
,
sayth
he
,
hoc
non
fit
,
he
denyes
not
but
it
is
done
,
but
he
sayes
the
better
sort
of
Christians
do
it
not
,
much
lesse
flowers
to
be
layd
vpon
their
bodyes
,
and
taken
of
agayne
,
with
hope
of
vertue
to
proceed
from
them
in
application
to
sicke
folkes
;
for
of
sanctifying
meates
to
necessary
vse
,
wee
read
in
the
Apostle
(
and
the
martyrs
might
concurre
to
it
if
they
were
Conscious
)
but
of
the
flowers
no
where
,
nor
to
such
purpose
,
especially
from
the
dead
.
The
Christians
then
might
do
this
in
S.
Augustines
tyme
,
but
not
the
better
sort
of
Christians
as
he
most
aduisedly
speakes
,
not
meliores
Christiani
,
whom
you
list
not
to
imitate
,
but
choose
the
worser
part
,
and
clout
a
religion
out
of
fond
Customes
,
which
the
iudicious
of
those
tymes
neyther
allowed
then
,
&
much
lesse
would
now
.
24.
Thus
iangleth
this
cozening
Companion
,
who
can
say
nothing
without
some
fraud
,
as
heer
you
see
.
He
telleth
you
of
flowers
layd
vpon
the
dead
bodyes
of
Saints
,
and
applyed
to
sick
folkes
in
S.
Augustines
tyme
,
but
what
effects
followed
it
,
or
with
what
circumstances
,
or
to
what
purpose
S.
Augustine
speakes
of
it
,
he
sayth
not
one
word
,
and
therefore
he
more
boldly
argueth
agaynst
it
,
out
of
another
place
of
S.
Augustine
,
as
against
a
custome
not
vsed
by
the
better
sort
of
Christians
,
nor
approued
by
S.
Augustine
himselfe
,
or
by
the
iudicious
of
those
tymes
.
Whereas
S.
Augustine
speaketh
not
of
flowers
otherwaies
,
but
only
in
relating
a
notable
miracle
done
by
Almighty
God
vpon
a
blynd
woman
,
who
was
restored
to
her
sight
,
by
applying
to
her
eyes
the
flowers
that
had
touched
the
holy
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
;
wherupon
it
should
follow
(
according
to
M.
Collins
his
assertion
)
that
if
it
were
a
bad
custome
to
vse
flowers
to
that
purpose
,
God
did
by
a
miracle
approue
a
bad
custome
,
and
do
a
singuler
benefit
to
one
of
the
worser
sort
of
Christians
,
that
vsed
the
same
;
yea
and
it
would
followe
also
that
S.
Augustin
;
wryting
against
the
Paynims
(
as
he
did
in
that
book
and
Chapter
)
fortyfied
and
confirmed
our
Christian
religion
by
bad
customes
not
vsed
amongst
the
better
sort
of
Christians
,
and
disallowed
also
by
himself
;
for
so
will
M.
Collins
haue
you
to
suppose
.
25
,
But
who
would
not
detest
the
fraud
,
and
laugh
at
the
folly
of
this
absurd
fellow
?
who
maketh
S.
Augustine
,
to
contradict
himself
,
vpon
no
better
a
ground
,
then
S.
Augustins
dislike
of
an
other
custome
,
not
vsed
by
the
better
sort
of
Christians
;
which
yet
proueth
no
more
against
this
custome
impugned
by
M.
Collins
,
thē
against
any
other
thing
,
that
he
,
or
any
body
els
shall
list
to
reiect
for
a
bad
custome
.
For
what
good
argument
can
M.
Collins
make
out
of
that
place
of
S.
Augustine
,
against
the
forsayd
application
of
flowers
?
Will
he
argue
thus
?
S.
Augustine
disallowed
the
custome
of
setting
meat
vpon
Martyrs
Tombs
to
be
blessed
,
Ergo
,
he
disalowed
the
custom
of
applying
to
the
sicke
the
flowers
that
had
touched
the
Reliques
of
Saints
?
Auditum
admissi
risum
teneatis
amici
!
Besides
that
,
the
difference
of
these
two
customes
was
such
in
S.
Augustines
opinion
,
that
he
reiecteth
the
one
in
expresse
words
,
and
approueth
the
other
clearely
inough
,
in
that
he
alleadgeth
it
against
the
Paynims
,
to
proue
the
continuance
of
diuine
miracles
,
relating
that
miracle
done
vpon
the
blynd
woman
,
by
the
meanes
of
those
flowers
.
26.
And
to
the
same
purpose
he
also
recounteth
afterwardes
another
notable
miracle
done
in
like
manner
by
flowers
,
vpon
a
sicke
Paynim
,
who
being
in
great
danger
of
death
,
and
earnestly
solicited
by
his
sonne
in
law
,
and
daughter
(
who
were
Christians
)
to
imbrace
the
Christian
fayth
,
most
obstinatly
resisted
,
vntill
his
sonne-in
law
(
after
most
feruent
prayer
made
at
the
Reliques
of
S.
Stephen
)
tooke
some
of
the
flowers
which
were
vpon
the
Altar
,
and
at
night
conueyed
them
vnder
the
sicke
mans
head
;
who
sleeping
after
a
whyle
,
was
so
moued
in
his
sleep
to
be
a
Christian
,
that
he
cryed
out
before
morning
to
be
baptized
,
and
after
his
Baptisme
repeated
continually
the
last
wordes
of
S.
Stephen
,
Act.
7.
viz.
Christe
accipe
spiritum
meum
(
albeit
he
had
neuer
heard
them
related
)
in
so
much
that
they
were
also
his
last
wordes
;
for
he
dyed
shortly
after
of
the
same
sicknes
.
27.
Thus
doth
S.
Augustine
recount
this
miracle
done
also
by
flowers
,
taken
only
from
the
altar
wher
S.
Stephens
reliques
were
kept
;
and
now
were
it
not
absurd
&
ridiculous
to
imagine
that
he
disliked
this
vse
of
those
flowers
,
wherby
God
wroght
so
great
a
miracle
?
Or
that
he
esteemed
the
pious
&
godly
sonne-in-law
of
that
Paynime
,
for
a
Christian
of
the
worser
sort
,
because
he
vsed
those
flowers
to
that
purpose
?
What
then
shal
we
say
of
other
things
which
S.
Augustine
reporteth
to
haue
beene
in
like
sort
ap●l●ed
to
sicke
,
yea
&
to
dead
persons
with
like
miraculous
effects
,
as
clo●●●●
,
and
garments
which
had
touched
the
sayd
reliques
,
and
were
applyed
to
dead
●●dyes
,
●hereby
three
were
reuiued
,
and
〈◇〉
●●●●er
a●so
reuiued
by
the
oyle
of
the
Mar●●●
(
as
I
haue
signified
before
)
shall
we
say
that
they
were
also
Christians
of
the
worser
sort
that
applyed
the
same
?
Or
that
S.
Augustine
did
also
dislike
those
actions
,
because
he
disliked
the
setting
of
meats
vpon
Martyrs
tombs
?
And
if
those
things
might
be
so
vsed
,
why
not
flowers
?
For
clothes
,
and
garments
haue
no
more
warrant
,
priuiledge
,
or
vertue
for
that
purpose
,
then
flowers
haue
;
so
as
by
M.
Collins
his
graue
censure
,
the
greatest
miracles
,
that
S.
Augustine
relateth
(
as
the
reuyuing
of
the
dead
,
which
surpassed
the
Diuels
power
,
&
therfore
must
needs
be
diuine
miracles
)
were
done
by
bad
customes
,
that
is
to
say
,
by
vnlawfull
meanes
,
and
those
which
vsed
thē
were
Christians
of
the
worser
sort
,
euen
in
S.
Augustines
opinion
,
though
he
recount
the
same
for
the
confusion
of
the
Paynims
,
and
for
the
honour
and
proofe
of
the
Christian
religion
.
28.
Loe
then
what
an
absurd
fellow
I
haue
to
deale
withall
,
and
also
how
false
&
fraudulent
he
is
,
who
not
only
dissembleth
my
whole
text
,
but
also
shamefully
peruerteth
S.
Augustines
meaning
,
the
better
to
couer
his
owne
imposture
.
But
to
draw
to
an
end
,
and
to
conclude
with
somwhat
more
concerning
the
translation
,
and
circumgestation
of
holy
reliques
(
which
M.
Collins
so
much
disliketh
)
the
vse
and
practise
of
both
is
euident
inough
,
euen
in
those
examples
alleadged
by
me
in
my
Adioynder
out
of
that
booke
,
and
chapter
of
S.
Augustine
,
which
M.
Collins
hath
so
censured
,
mangled
,
and
martyred
,
as
you
haue
seene
.
29.
And
first
,
for
the
circumgestation
of
reliques
,
the
practise
of
it
is
manifest
in
two
examples
related
by
S.
Augustine
in
the
place
aforesayd
:
the
one
of
Lucillus
a
Bishop
who
was
cured
of
a
Fistula
,
carrying
a
certaine
relique
of
S.
Stephen
in
procession
:
populo
,
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
praecedente
,
&
subsequente
,
the
people
going
some
before
,
and
some
after
;
and
the
other
example
is
of
another
Bishop
called
Proiectus
,
who
carryed
sacra
pignora
(
so
S.
Augustine
calleth
the
holy
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
)
at
what
tyme
the
blind
woman
(
of
whome
I
haue
spoken
amply
before
)
was
restored
to
her
sight
by
the
flowers
which
had
touched
those
holy
reliques
,
so
as
it
cannot
be
denyed
,
but
that
the
reliks
of
S.
Stephen
,
were
circumgested
or
(
by
M.
Collins
his
leaue
)
carryed
in
procession
,
euen
by
the
Bishops
themselues
,
accompanyed
with
the
people
for
the
greater
honour
of
them
,
which
also
Almighty
God
approued
by
manifest
miracles
.
30.
And
as
for
the
translation
of
reliques
,
it
is
as
cleare
as
the
Sunne
,
that
those
reliques
,
whereby
all
those
miracles
were
done
in
Africke
,
were
translated
thither
;
for
S.
Stephen
was
not
martyred
in
Africke
,
but
at
Hierusalem
;
besides
that
,
there
is
sufficient
testimony
in
approued
Authours
of
the
tyme
and
occasion
of
their
translation
,
as
that
Orosius
being
sent
by
S.
Augustine
to
S.
Hierome
,
who
then
resided
at
Hierusalem
to
conferre
with
him
concerning
the
origen
or
beginning
of
the
soule
of
man
,
was
the
first
that
brought
into
the
West
parts
,
Reliquias
B.
Stephani
Protomartyris
tunc
nuper
inuentas
,
the
reliques
of
B.
Stephen
the
first
Martyr
,
which
had
byn
then
latly
found
.
So
sayth
Gennadius
in
his
booke
de
viris
illustribus
c
.
39.
who
liued
at
the
same
tyme
,
which
was
in
the
raigne
of
the
Emperours
Honorius
and
Theodosius
;
for
then
were
the
holy
bodyes
of
S.
Stephen
,
S.
Nicodemus
,
and
S.
Gamaliel
found
by
a
Priest
called
Lucianus
,
to
whome
it
pleased
God
to
reueale
the
same
by
an
apparition
of
S.
Gamaliel
,
as
may
be
seene
in
the
history
thereof
written
at
lardge
by
Baronius
Anno
Domini
415.
where
also
it
is
related
what
notable
miracles
were
done
,
not
only
in
the
finding
of
them
,
&
in
translating
them
to
a
Church
in
Hierusalem
vpon
the
mount
Sion
,
but
also
in
the
translation
of
those
which
Orosius
carryed
to
Afri●ke
,
who
passing
by
the
Iland
called
Minorica
,
was
forced
to
stay
there
some
dayes
,
in
which
time
so
many
miracls
were
wroght
there
by
them
,
that
540.
Iewes
were
conuerted
to
the
Christian
fayth
;
and
af●erwards
when
those
reliques
were
brought
into
Africke
,
and
distributed
there
amongst
the
Bishops
(
of
whome
S.
Augustine
was
one
)
the
miracles
were
so
many
,
and
so
continuall
,
that
S.
Augustine
hauing
recounted
a
great
number
of
them
in
the
aforesayd
Chapter
of
his
22.
Booke
de
ciuitate
Dei
,
lamenteth
that
he
hath
not
tyme
to
write
all
that
he
knew
,
and
therefore
craueth
pardon
of
his
Reader
,
yeilding
this
reason
.
31.
Si
enim
,
sayth
he
,
miracula
sanitatum
,
vt
alia
taceam
&c.
For
if
I
would
now
write
the
miracles
of
cures
,
and
healing
of
diseases
(
to
omit
others
)
which
haue
beene
done
by
this
Martyr
(
that
is
to
say
,
most
glorious
Stephen
)
in
the
Colony
of
Calama
,
and
in
ours
;
very
many
bookes
were
to
be
written
,
and
yet
all
could
not
be
gathered
,
but
those
only
,
which
haue
beene
set
downe
in
little
bookes
,
or
registers
,
to
be
read
to
the
people
:
for
when
we
saw
the
signes
of
diuin
vertues
(
that
is
to
say
the
miracles
)
like
vnto
the
ould
,
to
be
so
frequently
done
in
our
tyme
,
we
thought
good
to
ordayne
,
that
they
should
be
registred
,
and
read
,
to
the
end
that
they
might
be
remembred
,
and
come
to
the
knowledge
of
many
.
It
is
not
yet
two
yeares
,
since
this
memory
began
to
be
celebrated
heere
at
Hyppo
,
and
albeit
the
registers
,
which
haue
beene
made
of
many
of
the
miracles
that
haue
beene
wrought
,
haue
not
beene
giuen
vp
(
wherof
I
am
most
assured
)
yet
those
miracles
which
haue
beene
written
,
and
giuen
vp
,
do
arriue
almost
to
the
number
of
70.
now
when
I
write
this
;
and
at
Calama
,
where
the
memory
began
before
we
had
it
heere
,
the
number
is
incomparably
greater
;
also
at
Vzalis
(
which
is
a
Colony
neere
to
Vtica
)
I
know
many
notable
thinges
haue
beene
done
by
the
same
Martyr
,
but
the
custome
of
registring
them
,
is
not
,
or
rather
hath
not
beene
vsed
there
;
but
now
perhaps
it
is
begun
there
.
32.
Thus
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
and
then
recounteth
a
notable
miracle
done
lately
before
(
when
he
himselfe
was
there
)
vpon
a
noble
woman
called
Petronia
,
which
he
sayth
he
caused
her
to
register
:
and
when
he
hath
related
the
sayd
miracle
,
he
concludeth
after
a
few
lines
,
with
that
which
M.
Collins
had
no
li●t
to
see
,
and
I
haue
therfore
layd
downe
before
,
&
now
will
repeate
it
againe
for
his
greater
confusion
:
Fiunt
ergo
,
sayth
S.
Augustine
,
etiam
nunc
multa
miracula
eodem
Deo
faciente
&c.
Therefore
now
also
many
miracles
are
done
,
the
same
God
doing
them
,
who
did
those
which
we
read
(
in
the
Scripture
:
)
but
these
neither
are
diuulged
,
and
made
knowne
alike
(
as
the
others
are
)
neither
are
they
with
often
reading
so
beaten
into
the
memory
of
men
,
that
they
be
not
forgotten
&c.
33.
Thus
farre
I
haue
thought
good
to
lay
downe
S.
Augustine
his
wordes
,
wherein
I
wish
these
things
to
be
noted
;
first
,
that
S.
Augustine
acknowledgeth
innumerable
miracles
to
haue
beene
done
by
the
reliques
of
S.
Stephen
;
the
second
,
that
they
were
diuyne
miracles
,
and
esteemed
,
and
declared
for
such
by
S.
Augustine
:
and
that
therefore
M.
Collins
hath
abused
,
and
belyed
him
notably
in
denying
the
same
,
and
cyting
him
lamely
and
corruptly
,
to
make
good
his
owne
fiction
,
as
you
haue
seene
before
.
Thirdly
that
the
custome
of
translating
,
and
carrying
reliques
with
solemnity
was
not
only
vsuall
in
the
Church
in
S.
Augustines
tyme
,
but
also
grateful
to
Almighty
God
,
who
confirmed
the
same
with
infinite
miracles
;
so
as
this
testimony
of
S.
August
.
touching
holy
reliques
,
giuen
by
him
most
seriously
,
and
sincerely
vpon
his
owne
knowledge
,
for
the
proof
of
Christian
religion
,
might
suffice
alone
,
though
we
had
no
other
,
to
proue
the
vse
,
veneration
,
translation
,
and
circumgestation
of
reliques
to
be
not
only
lawful
,
but
also
most
acceptable
to
almighty
God
,
and
therefore
,
both
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
and
M.
Collins
had
as
much
reason
,
as
men
could
haue
for
so
bad
a
matter
,
to
seeke
to
diminish
the
credit
,
and
authority
of
it
,
as
you
see
they
haue
laboured
to
do
;
thogh
with
so
manifest
,
and
inexcusable
fraudes
,
that
they
haue
therby
notably
discouered
,
aswell
their
owne
bad
consciences
,
as
the
weakenes
of
their
cause
.
34.
But
he
that
list
to
see
more
ample
proofes
for
the
vse
and
veneration
of
holy
reliques
,
let
him
take
paynes
to
read
Cardinall
Bellarmines
2.
booke
de
Beatitudine
Sanctorum
,
wherin
he
treateth
expresly
of
the
reliques
of
Saints
,
and
I
doubt
not
but
he
will
rest
satisfied
for
that
matter
.
For
my
intention
was
not
to
treat
this
controuersy
,
further
then
the
discouery
of
M.
Collins
his
fraudulent
dealing
therein
,
should
giue
me
iust
occasion
;
albeit
I
doubt
not
,
but
that
which
I
haue
had
occasion
to
treate
,
and
debate
with
him
concerning
the
same
,
may
suffice
to
satisfy
any
reasonable
man
.
And
therefore
hauing
now
sufficiently
performed
,
what
at
first
I
intended
(
which
was
to
discouer
some
part
of
M.
Collins
his
egregious
fraudes
,
in
defence
of
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
to
shew
thereby
that
he
deserueth
neither
thankes
of
my
Lord
,
nor
answere
from
me
)
I
will
now
make
an
end
,
albeit
there
remaine
yet
behind
,
so
many
more
of
like
quality
,
that
truely
I
am
amazed
to
see
the
multitude
,
and
enormity
of
them
,
as
I
will
make
it
most
cleare
,
and
euident
heereafter
,
if
this
do
not
put
him
to
silence
,
as
I
hope
it
will
;
for
such
is
the
force
of
the
truth
,
which
I
defend
,
and
so
euident
are
his
frauds
,
&
falsityes
which
I
haue
discouered
,
that
I
doubt
not
,
but
as
he
hath
had
the
power
to
open
my
mouth
,
with
his
EPPHATA
,
so
I
shal
haue
much
more
power
to
stop
his
,
with
OBMVTESCE
.
THE
CONCLVSION
TO
THE
VNIVERSITY
OF
CAMBRIDGE
.
NOw
that
I
haue
discouered
vnto
you
some
part
of
M.
Collins
his
fraudes
(
I
say
some
part
,
for
so
it
is
in
deed
,
and
but
a
smal
part
in
respect
of
the
rest
,
which
remayne
yet
vntoucht
,
)
I
leaue
to
you
to
consider
the
enormity
thereof
,
and
what
might
moue
him
to
such
a
desperat
resolution
to
venter
the
losse
of
his
reputation
for
euer
,
for
a
little
flash
of
vayn
glory
which
he
might
hope
to
gayn
with
the
common
sort
,
for
a
short
tyme
,
vntill
his
cosenage
should
be
detected
;
or
whether
he
was
so
greedy
of
the
temporall
reward
,
which
he
expected
of
his
maiesty
,
and
my
Lord
of
Winchester
,
as
to
purchase
it
with
eternall
damnation
due
to
his
fraudulent
impiety
,
or
impious
fraud
,
such
as
the
like
(
or
at
least
greater
)
hath
not
been
seene
in
any
writter
,
that
hath
made
profession
of
the
christian
faith
:
Neuertheles
if
the
infamy
or
hurt
that
may
ensue
thereof
,
did
only
touch
,
or
concern
himselfe
,
it
lesse
imported
,
and
might
be
the
better
disgested
,
and
dissembled
by
you
;
but
seeing
that
he
is
a
publique
member
of
your
Vniuersity
,
&
that
there
is
such
a
simpathy
,
and
communion
betwixt
euery
member
,
&
the
whole
body
,
that
si
quid
patitur
vnum
membrum
(
as
the
Apostle
saith
)
compatiuntur
omnia
membra
,
1.
cor
.
12.
I
make
no
doubt
but
that
you
of
your
wisdomes
will
consider
that
the
blame
and
guilt
of
his
offence
,
may
redound
to
you
all
,
except
you
seeke
to
free
your selues
from
the
participation
thereof
;
and
that
therefore
you
will
think
it
conuenient
to
execute
my
sentence
of
Obmutesce
vpon
him
,
by
putting
him
to
perpetual
silence
both
of
tongue
&
pen
,
whereby
it
may
appeare
to
the
world
,
that
his
infamous
booke
printed
by
the
publique
printer
of
your
Vniuersity
,
was
not
published
with
your
warrant
,
or
approbation
,
but
by
surreption
,
and
his
owne
priuate
authority
;
for
so
shall
you
deliuer
yourselues
from
all
participation
,
not
only
of
his
disgrace
,
but
also
of
the
punishment
due
to
him
,
by
Gods
iustice
,
which
otherwayes
may
some
way
extend
it selfe
also
to
you
for
your
conniuency
with
him
.
For
I
am
sure
you
cannot
be
ignorant
how
necessary
is
the
prayer
of
the
Royall
Prophet
,
Psal
.
5.
Ab
occultis
meis
munda
me
,
&
ab
alienis
parce
seruo
tuo
,
seeing
that
Almighty
God
doth
many
tymes
seuerely
punish
whole
communityes
for
priuate
mens
faults
,
when
they
are
permitted
and
dissembled
in
the
delinquents
.
When
Achan
(
Iosue
7.
)
concealed
,
and
hid
part
of
the
spoile
of
Iericho
,
contrary
to
the
Commaundement
of
Almighty
God
,
his
fault
was
imputed
to
the
whole
army
of
Iosue
,
and
punished
in
them
vntill
the
offendour
was
found
out
,
&
stone●
to
death
:
Peccauit
Israel
,
sayth
Almighty
God
,
&
praeuaricatus
est
pactum
&c.
when
neuertheles
one
man
(
to
wit
Achan
)
had
committed
the
offence
;
and
therfore
Almighty
God
sayd
further
vnto
them
:
Non
ero
vltra
vobiscum
donec
conteratis
eum
qui
huius
sceleris
reus
est
.
And
when
iustice
was
executed
vpon
him
,
auersus
est
(
sayth
the
Scripture
)
furor
Domini
abeis
:
now
then
if
this
secret
offence
of
a
priuate
person
was
by
Gods
iustice
imputed
to
al
the
children
of
Israel
,
and
punished
in
them
all
,
because
the
delinquent
was
not
chastised
;
what
shall
we
thinke
of
the
offence
of
a
publicke
person
?
Yea
of
an
offence
far
more
heynous
then
that
of
Achan
was
,
which
being
considered
in
it selfe
(
&
not
as
it
was
then
extraordinarily
forbidbidden
by
Almighty
God
)
was
an
indifferent
,
&
a
lawfull
action
;
wheras
all
falshood
&
fraud
is
alwayes
of
it selfe
so
detestable
,
&
abominable
to
God
&
man
,
that
the
Psalmist
worthily
coopleth
the
deceitful
man
,
with
the
blood-sucker
,
saving
Psal
.
5.
Virum
sanguinum
&
dolosum
abominabitur
Dominus
.
And
what
fraud
or
deceyt
can
be
comparable
to
that
which
is
practised
in
matter
of
religion
,
whereby
not
only
God
is
dishonored
,
but
also
mens
soules
are
endangered
,
or
drawne
to
eternalll
perdition
?
And
put
the
case
,
that
M.
Collins
had
vsed
this
fraud
only
to
teach
a
true
doctrin
(
as
his
freinds
may
say
perhaps
to
excuse
him
)
yet
it
were
neuertheles
inexcusable
;
seeing
it
is
euident
that
all
falsity
,
is
of
it self
so
contrary
to
almighty
God
(
who
is
ipsa
veritas
)
that
it
can
neuer
be
lawfully
practised
,
in
so
much
that
an
officious
lye
is
not
to
be
made
to
saue
the
world
,
or
with
neuer
so
great
pretense
of
Gods
honour
,
or
seruice
,
as
Iob
signifyed
,
when
he
said
,
cap
.
13.
Nunquid
Deus
indiget
mendacio
vestro
,
vt
pro
illo
loquamini
dolos
?
but
now
the
case
is
farre
otherwayes
with
M.
Collins
,
who
hath
wittingly
and
wilfully
,
falsified
,
corrupted
,
&
wrested
the
fathers
against
the
light
of
his
own
conscience
,
to
establishe
an
erroneous
,
and
false
doctrine
,
wholy
opposit
,
and
contrary
to
theyrs
,
(
as
you
haue
euidently
seene
)
and
all
this
to
the
extreme
danger
of
innumerable
soules
.
Wherupon
I
conclude
,
that
it
behoueth
you
to
consider
of
the
weight
of
this
cryme
,
and
to
seeke
to
expiate
the
same
by
some
meanes
,
least
Almighty
God
may
say
to
you
,
with
farre
greater
reason
,
then
he
said
to
the
children
of
Israel
for
Achans
offence
,
Non
ero
vobiscum
donec
conteratis
eum
qui
huius
sceleris
reus
est
;
which
neuerthelesse
,
I
say
not
,
I
assure
you
,
with
desire
that
he
should
be
otherwise
chastised
,
then
to
be
humbled
,
and
made
to
know
himselfe
,
and
his
errours
for
the
saluation
of
his
soule
,
that
is
to
say
,
vt
conuertatur
&
viuat
,
that
being
truly
penitent
,
and
repentant
,
he
may
liue
not
only
here
in
the
seruice
of
God
many
yeares
,
but
also
hereafter
with
Almighty
God
eternally
.
And
this
,
in
good
truth
,
〈◇〉
all
the
hurt
I
wish
him
,
notwithstanding
the
hoat
bickering
and
conflict
that
hath
passed
betwixt
vs.
AN
APPENDIX
TOVCHING
a
place
of
S.
Ephraem
,
alleadged
by
my
Lo
.
of
Winchester
,
against
Prayer
to
Saints
,
debated
with
M.
Collins
before
in
the
7.
Chap.
num
.
50.
&
sequent
.
WHERAS
M.
Collins
hath
affirmed
that
my
Lord
alledged
it
out
of
a
Manuscript
which
his
Lordship
hath
to
shew
,
and
that
the
sayd
Manuscript
was
printed
at
Rome
by
Dominicus
Basa
,
in
the
year
of
our
Lord
1584.
&
is
entituled
the
Diurnall
of
the
Maronits
,
I
haue
thought
good
for
the
better
satisfaction
of
the
learned
,
to
cause
the
Arabicall
text
of
S.
Ephraem
,
as
it
is
in
the
sayd
Diurnall
,
to
be
printed
there
,
togeathe●
with
the
explication
thereof
in
Latin
letters
,
and
tho
Latin
translation
thereof
word
for
word
,
wherein
I
wish
these
thinges
to
be
obserued
.
1.
First
,
that
is
printed
after
the
manner
of
the
Hebrew
,
Syriacke
,
&
Calday
,
and
so
to
be
read
,
to
wi●
,
from
the
right
hand
to
the
left
,
and
that
therefore
the
Latin
beginneth
with
the
Arabike
in
the
very
last
page
,
at
Sus●i●e
deprecationem
meam
&c.
&
so
goeth
backward
,
euery
latin
word
answering
the
Arabique
which
it
explicateth
.
2.
Secondly
,
that
for
as
much
as
there
is
great
difficulty
to
expresse
the
true
sound
of
the
Arabique
in
Latin
letters
,
by
reason
of
the
different
dialects
betwixt
the
Arabique
,
and
other
languages
(
wherby
I
haue
seene
the
Arabique
set
downe
in
Latin
letters
diuersly
,
by
men
of
diuers
Nations
)
I
haue
therefore
vsed
the
aduise
of
a
very
learned
Maronite
,
who
naturally
speaketh
the
Arabique
tongue
,
and
is
very
expert
in
the
Latin
and
Italian
,
by
fourty
years
study
and
practise
of
both
,
whome
I
haue
procured
to
giue
me
the
translation
of
the
Arabique
,
and
the
true
sound
and
pronuntiation
therof
,
expressed
by
Latin
letters
as
neere
as
may
be
,
according
to
the
learned
and
grammaticall
Arabique
,
which
sometymes
differeth
some
what
from
the
vulgar
in
pronuntiation
&
found
;
as
for
example
,
the
word
sauaca
which
signifyeth
aequalis
tibi
,
is
vulgarly
pronounced
suaca
(
as
i●
is
set
downe
by
me
in
the
seauenth
chap.
num
.
54.
55.
&
56.
)
whereas
in
the
explication
of
the
Arabique
in
this
Appendix
it
is
sauaca
,
according
to
the
grammaticall
pronuntiation
thereof
,
which
difference
may
also
be
noted
in
diuers
other
words
.
3.
Thirdly
I
desire
thee
,
good
Reader
,
to
note
the
difference
betwixt
the
Arabical
words
giuen
vs
by
Maister
Collins
,
and
those
which
thou
s●est
heer
set
downe
out
of
the
Diurnall
of
the
Maronits
alleadged
by
him
.
The
words
he
giueth
vs
for
S.
Ephraems
are
,
[
Illaica
we
shaueca
lam
atlabu
]
whereas
the
other
in
the
sayd
Diurnall
are
[
Flam
atlob
sauaca
]
of
the
difference
whereof
,
as
also
of
the
corrupt
translation
of
them
,
and
the
omission
of
an
important
sentence
following
immediatly
in
the
text
of
S.
Ephraem
,
I
haue
treated
amply
in
the
seauenth
Chapter
:
whereto
I
add
heere
concerning
[
atlabu
]
that
although
it
be
an
Arabical
word
,
&
may
be
vsed
in
some
sort
,
yet
not
in
that
manner
that
M.
Collins
hath
it
,
to
wit
,
when
(
lam
)
a
negatiue
particle
,
signifying
(
non
)
doth
go
immediatly
before
it
;
for
then
it
cannot
be
[
atlabu
]
as
the
Maronits
do
assure
me
,
but
[
atlob
]
as
we
read
it
in
S.
Ephraem
.
So
a●
it
appeareth
that
of
fiue
Arabical
words
which
M.
Collins
hath
pretended
to
giue
vs
out
of
S.
Ephraems
text
,
at
least
4.
are
not
to
be
found
there
;
besides
the
corrupt
&
false
sense
,
which
he
giueth
vs
thereof
,
as
I
haue
shewed
euidently
in
the
7.
Chapter
.
4.
Fourthly
wheras
I
haue
also
in
the
7.
Chap.
num
.
50.
&
60.
set
downe
the
English
translation
of
certaine
salutations
of
S.
Ephraem
to
the
B.
Virgin
Mary
,
and
to
S.
Michael
the
Archangel
(
contayning
also
his
expresse
inuocation
of
them
)
together
with
part
of
another
prayer
of
his
to
Almighty
God
;
and
finally
,
the
end
,
and
conclusion
of
the
very
prayer
it selfe
,
out
of
which
M.
Collins
hath
taken
his
counterfait
text
,
I
haue
thought
good
for
the
further
satisfaction
of
those
that
haue
skill
in
the
Arabique
to
cause
the
same
to
be
printed
heer
,
to
the
end
that
they
may
the
more
cleerly
discouer
the
egregious
fraud
of
my
Lord
,
&
his
Champion
in
the
abuse
and
corruption
of
S.
Ephraem
.
Wherin
neuertheles
it
is
to
be
noted
,
that
of
the
salutations
to
the
B.
V.
and
S.
Michael
,
(
which
in
S.
Ephraem
are
very
many
)
I
haue
taken
out
but
some
few
to
shew
the
custome
and
manner
of
speach
of
that
ancient
Father
(
conforme
to
the
custome
of
Catholiks
at
this
day
)
and
that
it
may
serue
for
a
preamble
to
his
inuocation
of
them
,
wherwith
he
concludeth
his
sayd
salutations
.
All
which
I
beseech
thee
good
Reader
wel
to
consider
togeather
with
that
which
I
haue
represented
vnto
thee
,
in
the
7.
Chap.
and
then
I
doubt
not
,
but
thou
wilt
euidently
see
,
&
detest
the
impudency
of
M.
Collins
,
and
say
to
him
with
me
,
Obmutesce
Syr
Samuel
,
for
shame
,
Obmutesce
.
{αβγδ}
Ex
oratione
ad
Deum
.
pag
.
206.
{αβγδ}
Finis
orationis
à
Collinio
citatae
.
pag
.
226.
{αβγδ}
Ex
oratione
ad
Beatam
Virg
.
pag
.
172.
&
173.
{αβγδ}
Ex
oratione
ad
S.
Michaelem
pag
.
204.
{αβγδ}
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
,
〈◇〉
vuineribus
〈◇〉
meas
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
non
&
〈◇〉
,
tibi
aequalem
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
sed
&
〈◇〉
;
te
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
ad
〈◇〉
tuam
bonitatem
&
〈◇〉
,
tuam
misericordiam
〈◇〉
es
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
:
confug●
〈◇〉
tua
potestas
&
ahdon
〈◇〉
,
vniuscuiusq
.
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
Dominus
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
super
〈◇〉
nonia
〈◇〉
,
domine
〈◇〉
meā
〈◇〉
Suscipe
〈◇〉
sed
&
〈◇〉
,
meam
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
in
&
〈◇〉
,
tuam
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
tuae
protectionis
&
ta
〈◇〉
,
tuae
〈◇〉
mult●tudine
〈◇〉
aalhazinata
,
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
m●am
〈◇〉
salua
〈◇〉
si
&
ia
〈◇〉
,
dominead
〈◇〉
m●●
〈◇〉
:
morte
〈◇〉
sim
vulneratus
&
〈◇〉
,
〈◇〉
〈◇〉
Faultes
escaped
in
the
print
.
|
Page
|
Line
|
Fault
|
Correction
.
|
|
5.
|
17.
|
or
gouernement
|
of
gouernement
|
|
10.
|
12.
|
but
it
was
|
but
when
it
was
|
|
14.
|
13.
|
Lord
of
Ely
|
Lo
of
Winchester
and
so
likewise
pag.
15.
l.
4.
&
in
other
places
.
|
|
16.
|
19.
|
pags
|
pages
|
|
17.
|
11.
|
Thus
far
Collins
|
Thus
farre
&c.
|
|
23.
|
9.
|
domination
|
dominion
|
|
33.
|
3.
|
more
,
then
|
more
then
,
|
|
Ib.
|
vlt
|
falsey
|
falsly
|
|
38.
|
1.
|
ad
ipso
|
ab
ipso
|
|
39.
|
vlt
|
tend
|
the
end
|
|
42.
|
13.
|
consequent
|
consequents
|
|
62.
|
17.
|
more
those
|
more
then
those
|
|
77.
|
2.
|
infere
|
inferre
|
|
82.
|
13.
|
Monarchy
|
Monarch
|
|
89.
|
1.
|
Augustine
|
S
Augustine
|
|
●9
.
|
4.
|
reaso
|
reason
|
|
10.
|
2.
|
care
|
care
|
|
109.
|
1.
|
eligit
|
elegit
|
|
118.
|
1●
.
|
alledged
my
Lord
|
alledged
by
my
L.
|
|
131.
|
19.
|
dele
|
so
|
|
146.
|
7.
|
longe
|
tongue
|
|
Ibid
|
12.
|
example
|
examples
|
|
178.
|
●3
.
|
an
do
|
and
do
|
|
18●
.
|
10.
|
Non
hoc
quaeritur
|
Nunc
hoc
quaeritur
|
|
Ibid
|
12.
|
nor
the
question
|
now
the
question
|
|
184.
|
5.
|
but
in
all
|
but
also
in
all
|
|
18●
.
|
14.
|
habet
Sanctos
|
habet
in
Sanctos
|
|
Ibid
|
16.
|
of
|
or
|
|
Ibid
|
27.
|
went
|
were
|
|
220.
|
21.
|
bebate
|
debate
|
|
214.
|
8.
|
flam
etlob
suaca
|
flam
atlob
sauaca
,
or
suaca
(
as
it
is
vulgarly
pronounced
.
|
|
225.
|
18.
|
suaca
|
sauaca
,
or
suaca
|
|
Ibi
.
|
19.
|
sua
signifyeth
|
sua
or
saua
signifieth
|
|
226.
|
4.
|
col
.
182.
|
col
.
1820.
|
|
Ibi
.
|
7.
|
sheua
|
shauo
|
|
Ibi
|
8.
|
Arabique
saui
|
Arabique
saua
|
|
Ibid
|
9.
|
Syriacque
sheui
|
Syriacque
shue
|
|
Ibid
|
10.
|
sua
|
saua
|
|
Ibid
|
15.
|
of
sua
|
of
saua
,
or
sua
|
|
227.
|
3.
|
if
suaca
|
if
sauaca
,
or
suac●
|
|
Ibid
|
13.
|
lam
et
lob
suaca
|
flam
at
lob
sauaca
|
|
229.
|
4.
|
so
all
|
so
say
all
|
|
276.
|
15.
|
odoration
|
adoration
|
|
290.
|
16.
|
gratia
|
gratiae
|
|
303.
|
10.
|
bloud
|
brood
|
|
308.
|
20.
|
insteed
of
&c.
add
this
Greeke
verse
{αβγδ}
|
|
336.
|
27.
|
manificent
|
magnificent
|
|
342.
|
19.
|
God
|
Gods
|
|
344.
|
16.
|
found
|
fond
|
|
348.
|
27.
|
not
acknowledge
|
not
onely
not
acknowledge
|
|
349.
|
6.
|
or
know
|
to
know
|
|
353.
|
13.
|
God
to
a
iust
|
God
too
,
a
iust
&c
|
|
360.
|
7.
|
those
,
quod
|
those
,
quos
per
&c
|
|
Ibid
|
23.
|
saying
that
|
seeing
that
|
|
361.
|
8.
|
that
apparition
|
that
the
apparition
|
|
369.
|
10.
11.
|
in
Moyses
|
to
Moyses
|
|
371.
|
4.
|
letter
|
later
|
|
381.
|
20.
|
religious
sake
|
religions
sake
|
|
Ibid
|
27.
|
religious
|
religions
|
|
●86
.
|
18.
|
religious
|
religions
|
|
431.
|
9.
|
euer
carpe
|
euer
did
carpe
|
|
456.
|
27.
|
vnapproued
|
approued
|
|
466.
|
2.
3.
|
to
a
man
of
|
to
be
a
man
of
|
|
470.
|
21.
|
the
winding
sheet
|
the
linnen
cloath
|
|
Ibid
.
|
24.
|
the
sayd
sheet
|
the
sayd
cloath
|
|
478.
|
5.
|
voloces
|
veloces
|
|
480.
|
27.
|
Almighty
of
his
|
Almighty
God
of
his
&c.
|
|
496.
|
12.
|
his
seruants
|
his
seruant
.
|
FINIS
.