A discussion of the popish doctrine of transubstantiation vvherein the same is declared, by the confession of their owne writers, to haue no necessary ground in Gods Word: as also it is further demonstrated to be against Scripture, nature, sense, reason, religion, and the iudgement of t5xxauncients, and the faith of our auncestours: written by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith.

A IVST DEFENCE OF THE FORMER DISCOVRSE AND ARGVMENTS AGAINST THE ANSWER OF A NAMELES Popish Priest thereunto : Wherein is set downe ; first , his Answer word for word , and then a Refutation thereof , according to his owne Distribution of it .

Diuision I.

NOBLE Ladie , I finde your N. P. Diuine vtterly ignorant and vnacquainted with the Authors workes by him frequently cited .

For example , pag. 9. he tearmeth Cornelius Iansenius more then once a Iesuite : whereas the first leafe of his booke ( if he had euer seene it ) witnesseth him to haue beene a Bishop of Flaunders , and no Iesuite . Like herein to an other of his owne coate ( for I guesse him to be a Minister , who to my selfe and other worthy persons confidently auerred Cardinal Bellarm. to haue beene an English man borne at Harr●● on the Hi●● ; where there hath beene indeede an auncient familie of the Bellamies , not Bellarmines , as he foolishly conceiued .

Secondly , pag. 5. he citeth an authoritie out of Pope Gelasius written by a farre different Author of that name Bishop of Caesarea in Palestine mentioned together with his workes by Photius Bibliotheca sua Codice 102.

Thirdly , in his 2. page , on the false report of an other namelesse Author like to himselfe , ignorant and vnsincere in his assertions , he maketh Bishop Fisher to affirme the reali presence of Christs body in the Sacrament not to be gatherable out of any one word in Scripture , contrarie to Bishop Fishers , yea Luthers owne doctrine in innumerable places .

Fourthly , hauing traced him throughout his whole Treatise , I finde him to be a meere collector out of other Authors : and for his best Arguments be hath stolne Bellarmines obiections against our doctrine , craftily dissembling his full and solide solutions of them in those very places : which is the vsuall trade of such Protestant petie writers . His proofes are tedious , superficiall , and stuffed with impertinent allegations , maimedly and corruptly produced : with a very bad hand ( which I suppose is his owne ) he inserteth many notes wholy idle and impertinent to his purpose ; as I haue in reading his papers particularly obserued : which is to me an euident signe , that he hoped his papers should neuer come to the view of other then Ladies and vnlearned pers●… vnable 〈…〉 exam●●● them .

It is the vsuall manner of those that defend a bad T. G. cause , to leaue the matter , and fall foule on the aduerse party , and ( like the crauen Cocke , that hauing a a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Xenoph. in sympos . Et inde 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Aristoph . in ●quitib . eaten garlicke , by his strong and stinking breath endeauoureth to driue him away from him , whom he is not able well to bicker with ) by railing , re●iling and aboundance of bad language to seeke to beate off their aduersary , or by lying and out-facing to cry downe those that they deale with , when by euidence of truth and strength of Argument they are vnable to conuince them ; hoping by such meanes to delude the simpler sort at least , that cannot so well discerne their shifts .

This as I haue heretofore by experience found to be the common practise of Popish companions ; so this Defendant loath to degenerate from the kinde he commeth of , at the first dash beginneth with , charging the Diuine he dealeth with to be one vtterly ignorant , vnacquainted with the Authors workes that he citeth , a petty-writer , a meere collector , a false filcher , a foule corrupter , a superficiall disputer , and what not ?

This is his charge : Let vs heare how he prooueth it .

1. He tearmeth Iansenius , whom he citeth , more then once a Iesuite , when he is not . It is true indeede : I confesse , I doe twise so tearme him , and I tooke him to haue beene so : wherein if I were mistaken , the matter is not great . I hope the authoritie of a famous Bishop , and a great writer of speciall note among them , our of a worke of his written b b Magna eruditione , ac iudicio maturo Scriptum . Tho. Gozeus S. Theol. Profess . Louan . & lib. Visitat . with much learning and mature iudgement , as the Louaine professor acknowledgeth ; and approoued c c Communi doctorum virorum iudicio . Io. Molan . Cen●or Apostolicus & Regius . by the common iudgement of the learned among them , as the King of Spaines ( to whom also it is dedicated ) and the Popes Censurer of bookes testifieth , may well be deemed of as much weight as the word or worke , ( if not of any , yet ) of many a Iesuite at least .

As for the idle tale hee telleth of the Bellarmines and Bellamies , which a Minister forsooth should take the one for the other , and therupon affirme Card. Bellarmine to haue beene borne at Harrow on the Hill ; it may well be thought to haue beene brought in for no other end ( being so little to the purpose ) but to let vs vnderstand that hee is a man of some worth ; for so much hee intimateth when he saith , it was averred to himselfe and other worthy persons . Hee doubteth ( belike ) that his worke would scarce make his worth knowne , if hee should not otherwise acquaint vs with it . The thing it selfe is like enough to be but a meere fiction ; and might easily be requited with the tale of the Frier , that d d Marnix Beehiue . tooke Messias for the Masse , and so would prooue out of the Gospell that Christ said Masse ; or of the Priest e e Hundred merry Tales that tooke vnigeniti written short , for viginti , and so read to his people , Gods twenty sonnes ; or of him f f Poggii facet . that bad the Epiphanie day , but could not tell whether it weere an hee or a she-Saint ; or of him * * H. Steph. apolog. for Herod . l. 1. c. 39. that bad Solin Cancro for an Holy-day , because he found it written in red letters ; and with many moe the like , probable enough , if the learning of their lacke-Latin Priests be well weighed .

But , had I ever seene the first leafe of his booke , I might haue knowne him to be a Bishop of Flanders and no Iesuite . As if as oft as one either readeth or alleadgeth any Author , hee must needes turne alwayes to the title-page , to see what his style is : or as if Iansenius might not as well be Bishop of Gaunt , as Bellarmine a Cardinall , and ( if I mistake not ) Arch-bishop of Capua , and yet for all that a Iesuite . His proofe therefore of my being vnacquainted with this Author , ( whom , I suppose , hee will finde mee better acquainted with then he would ) is very silly and slight : and the exception such , as sheweth that hee wanted matter of moment to except against .

But I hope when this Bishop of Flanders booke commeth to be reprinted againe , they will take that course with him , ( if they haue not leaft their old guise ) that they haue done formerly with many others ; to wipe out of him whatsoeuer in this kinde or any other , either maketh directly against them , or discouereth the weakenesse of such grounds as they labour to build their grosse errors vpon . Of which their false and fradulent dealing , it shal not be amisse to insert one Example by the way ; the rather , because it concerneth the point here debated . Whereas therefore in the time of Carolus Calvus King of France and Emperour , aboue 800. yeeres since , there was g g Non paru● schis●●ate diuiduntur , quide mysterio corporis sanguinisque Christi non eadem sentientes eloquuntur . Bertram praefat. ad Carol. Imper . much disputation and dissension in the Church about the doctrine of the Sacrament , one Bertram a man h h Vir in diuinis Scripturis valdè peritus , & in literis disciplinarum secularium egregiè doctus ; nec minus vi●â quàm doctrinâ in signis . Trithem . in Catalog . of great note in those times both for life and learning , willed by the Emperour to declare his iudgement therein , wrote a learned discourse thereof , wherein hee confimeth by the testimonies of Augustine , Ambrose , and others of the Ancients , the very same that we now hold : and among other things affirmeth that i i Appar●t quod multâ inter se differentiâ separatur ; quantum est inter pignus , & eam rem pro qua pignus traditur ; inter imaginem , & rem cuiu● est imago ; inter speciem , & veritatem . Bertram . de corp. & sang . Dom. quaest. 2. there is as great difference between Christs bodie that was borne of the Virgin Mary , and that which is dayly receiued with the month in the Sacrament , as there is betweene the pledge , and that for which the pledge is giuen , betweene the image , and that whereof it is an image , and betweene the type and the truth . Now the Popish purgers authorised to maine and mangle Authors , as well old as new , cum privilegio , without controll , lighting among others on this booke of Bertrams , vse these wordes of it , and of their owne confessed courses in this kinde . k k Index Expurgat . Belgic . in tit . B. Albeit ( say they ) we make no great reckoning of this booke , and therefore should not greatly care if it were vtterly lost , and were no where to be had ; ( I cannot blame them if they wish it , and many other the like , burnt and abolished ) yet seeing that the booke hath beene oft printed , and reprinted , hath beene read of very many , is knowne commonly by the name of a booke forbidden , and the Heretiques by diuerse Catalogues of Bookes prohibited , are sure there is such an one , &c. And besides , since that in other old catholique writers we beare with very many errors , wee extenuate , wee excuse them , l l Excogitato commento persaepe negamus , & commodum eis sensum affingimus . with some devised shift or other we very often times deny them , and by faining giue them some commodio as sense , ( such they meane as may serue their owne turnes ) when in disputations with our Adversaries they are obiected vnto vs . ( Marke , I pray you , the common dealing of these men in disputation , not charged on them by vs , but confessed by themselues ; and then iudge you what fidelity or sincerity in cyting of Authors , is to bee expected at their hands . ) We see not , why Bertram should not finde the like fauour with vs : The rather , m m Ne haeretici ogganniant , nos antiquitatem pro ipsis sacientem ex●●ere & prohibe●● . L●st the Heretiques should be snarling at vs , and telling vs that we burne vp and prohibite antiquitie , when it maketh for them against vs . Which , you see , in this Author they would faine , if either they could , or durst do it . So at length they resol●… to doe Bertram the fauour to mangle and misuse his whole booke , and hauing put in , and put out what they list themselues , to let him to passe , taught to speake for them now , that spake all against them before . I may well say heere , as Arnobius an ancient Father , sometime said ; n n Intercipere scripta , & publicam velle submergere lectionem , non est Deos defendere , sed veritatis testificationem timere . Arnob. contr. gent. lib. 3. To intercept writings , and seeke to suppresse things published , what is it but to be afraid of hauing the truth told and testified ?

2. From the first idle Exception I passe to a second , as false , as the former frivolous . Hee citeth , saith hee , an authority out of Pope Gelasius , written by a farre different Author of that name , Bishop of Caesarea in Palestine . Had not meere malice and a minde bent to cavill , either blinded this wrangler , or made him wilfully to winke , hee might easily haue seene ( that which he could not also be ignorant of ) in my very quotation , that the style and ●itle I giue him , is no other then is commonly giuen him by Popish writers , as among others by o o Gelasii Episcopi Romani , &c. Biblioth. Patrum à Margar. la Bigne 2. edit. Paris . 1589. tom . 4. Et ib. in margine , Gelasius 1. Afer . anno Dom. 564. Margarinus la Bigne , and those with him ( besides many p p Sic enim in edit . Basil. 1528 & Tigur . 15●1 . others ) that gathered together the workes of the ancient Fathers , in the fourth T●me of their great Library sundry times printed , which 〈…〉 note there also in the Margine where I cite him . So that it is a meere false and friu●●us cauill to taxe me for cyring Gelasius by 〈…〉 title that hee knew well to be giuen him , ( yea and that truly too , as anone shall euidently be ●…ed ) by those of their owne side that haue at sundry times set him out by no other name but of G●lasius Pope or Bishop of Rome .

But how doth this trister prooue that he was not Bishop of Rome ? Forsooth , because Photius maketh mention of one Gelasius Bishop of Caesarea in Palestine , that wrote against the Heretikes called Anomoei . The place wringeth them , and therefore they would faine shift off the Author , from being Bishop of Rome at least . And B●llarmine , q q Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 2. cap. 27. Quamquam de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 10. haesitantius idem , vel Gennadii vel Gelasii Caesariensis . he telleth vs that it was one Gelasi●● a Bishop of Caesarea , of whom Iereme maketh mention . But Baronius confuteth Bellarmine ; ( here is Cardinal against Cardinall : ) and r r Baron . ●…nal . tom. 6. anno 496. Opus illud Gelasio Palestino nullo modo potest asscribi . saith , it cannot be that Gelasius : their times are too farre asunder : both hee was dead and his next successor , before that businesse was on foot , that he dealeth in . Thus they sticke not to make men write bookes after they are dead , and laid vp in their graues . But who is hee then , saith Baronius ? for Bishop of Rome hee must not be . Hee is s s Baron . ibid. Sed & Greg. de Valent. de Transsub . l. 〈…〉 . c. 7. & C●● . loc. com . l ▪ 〈…〉 . c. 8. that Gelasius ( saith hee ) that Photius maketh mention of : and this Defendant saith the same . Gennadius and diuers other , telleth vs that Gelasius of the City of Rome Bishop , wrote against the Eutychians and Nestorians . And that is the very title of the book● that I cite . Now Photius telleth vs of another Gelasius Bishop of Caesarea , that wrote against the Anomaeans . Therefore saith Baronius , and from him this Defendant , the one must needs bee the other . As if two Bishops of the same name could not write bookes against Heretiques , but they must needs be by and by the same . But obserue s Ge●nad . in Catalog . Et cum eodem consentiunt Anastasius , Platina , P●ilip . Bergom . Trithem . & alii . I pray you , how hansomely these things hang together . The t t Athanas ▪ ●…mine contra Anomaeos d●alog . 2. quos Maximo ttibui restatur ▪ Schottus ad . Photium . Chrys. contr. Ancmaeos . hom. 2. Aug. de haeres . c. 54 dissimilem per omnia p●…i asserentes filium . Socrat. hist. Eccles. l. 2. c. 45. & Sozom , hist l. 4. c. 29. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Anomaeans were Arrians and Aetians , so called , because they held the Sonne to bee vnlike the Father . The ᵘ Eutychians heretiques , that held that Christs humanity was turned into , or swallowed vp of his deitie . And now marke how these men reason ; Gelasius of Caesarea ( saith Photius ) writ against those that oppugned Christs diuinitie : and this Gelasius writeth against those that tooke away his humanity : this and the other therefore must needs be all one . Rather I reason on this manner : Gennadius reporteth that G●lasius Bishop of Rome writ against Eutyches and Nestorius : so doth this whom I cite ; and all Editions of him , so stile him : this Gel●sius therefore was Bishop of Rome . And how doth this now proue , that v Theod. haeres . fabul . l. 4. Enagr . hist. l. 2. c. 16. Thedor . Rhaet . de hae●●l . Isidor . Orig. l. 8. c. 5. Humanem naturam à diuina absorptam . I cite Authors , whose workes I am altogether vnacquainted with , when the worke I cite in their owne printed Editions hath no other title , then that I giue it ?

But for the further and fuller cleering of the truth in this point , and the vindicating of this piece of Antiquity to his right Author : Besides that Phetius flatlyaffirmeth that that Gelasius that wrote against the Anomaei , is the same with that Gelasius whom they would haue this Author to be , to wit , hee that wrote of the Nicene Councell , but a a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Pho● . bibliot . cod . 89. Et. ibid. de altero . illo ; 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 &c. one that both for stile and learning goeth farre beyond him : Nor is the frame of this Authors discourse such as hee describeth his to haue beene in that worke , to wit , b b 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . ibid cod 102 fastidiously and childishly , or youthfully at least , full of Logicke rules and tearmes , for which himselfe maketh an Apologie ; which this neither doth , nor ( writing in a farre other straine ) needed to doe : As also that in this very worke , the Author intimateth himselfe to haue beene Bishop of Rome , or ( as he speaketh ) of d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . ibid. the Apostolike Sea : Nor is it needfull that with e e Cum sedem Apostolicam vestra dilectio vnanimiter teneat , constanter praedicet , sapienter defendat , &c. Melchior Canu● we turne sedem into fidem , as ( to shift off this Author ) he would there do : Besides all this , I say , Eulgentius an African Bishop who liued together in the same time with Pope Gelasius , and was his owne Countriman , doth ( as f f Fulgentius qui codem ●●mpore vixit , &c. Gelas●… Papae absque ulla dubitatione adscrihit . Henr. Spondan . epi●om . Baron . not . ad ann. 496. Hen●…y Spondan the Popes Protonotary himselfe informeth vs ) g g Beatae memoriae Papa Gelasius . Fulgent . ad Ferrand . respons. 2. ascribe this work to Pope Gelasius , cyting out of it certaine passages ; as h h Ioan Pp. 2. non 1. in epist. contr. ●utych . in Biblioth. Pa●r . ●om. 4. edit. 2. Iohn the second , who not long after succeded this Gelasius in the same sea , also doth . That which putteth this truth so farre out of all doubt , that Spondan by such euidence vndeniable conuinced , is enforced to i i Spondan . vbi sup. controll Cardinall Baronius and those other of their owne writers therein . It is cleere therefore that this Gelasius was not Bishop of C●sare● , as this Defendant would haue him ; but Bishop of Rome , as I alleadge him , aboue a thousand yeeres since , and both held and taught then the same doctrine of the sacrament of the E●ch●rist , that we doe at this day .

But let him giue me leaue here to tell him of a tricke too common with him and those of his coate ; to wit , as to coine and forge Fathers , such as neuer were , not a few ; so to cite oft in their discourses in matters of controuersie Authors and writings , either iustly suspected , or evidently spurious and counterfeit . In which kinde this Defendant is more then once or twice faulty . To omit Cyril of Ierusalem his Catecheticall Sermons , which euen u u Marc. Vd. ser. Catalog . Codic . MS. apud Posseuin . Quem Cytillum esse puto . Popish writers themselues dare not confidently auow ; and diuerse passages in them bewray to be of a later date , then that Cyril whom they are fathered on . As also his citing of the very selfe same Author sometime as x x Aug. de verb. dom. serm. 28. Augustine , and sometime as y y Ambr. de sacram . lib. 5 cap. 4. Ambrose , which it may wel be was neither , and may the rather bee so deemed euen for this cause , because hee beareth the name of both ; which both sure he could not be : He citeth these confessed counterfeits as authenticall Authors ;

1. Di●nysius Areopagita , branded long since in Photius his time , a a Vt pseude●igrapha videntur à Ph●ti● n●tari . Posseui● ▪ i● apparat . as Posseuine confesseth , for a counterfeit ; b b Caietan 〈…〉 Act. 17. doubted of by C●ietan ; c c 〈…〉 schol ▪ ad ●ieron ▪ de Scrip. Eccl●… & in decla●● a●… Paris . cens . denied by Grocinus ; d d Valla in Act. 17. & Erasm. praefat. ad paraphras . in 1 Cor. derided by Ualla and diuerse others .

2. The passion of S. Andrew pretended to be written by the Ministers of Ach●ia : which Dr. White ( not ours but theirs ) writing of this very Argument , confesseth to be e e Sed sit apo●… , ●t est absque controue●●ia , 〈…〉 Quod diuus Andreas locutus ad Patres Memoratur , &c. Wh●… diacos . M●… . without controuersie an Apocryphall storie : and containeth manifest vntruth , if Bellarmine himselfe may bee beleeued .

3. Cyprian de cardinalibus Christi operibus ; which f f Falsò tribuitur Cypriano . Posseuin . in apparat . Posseuine , g g Non esse stylus arguit . Erasm. not . in 〈…〉 . Erasmus , h h Cypriani . non est , Po. 〈…〉 de Commun . sub vtr . spec. Hesselius , and many other P●pish writers flatly deny to be Cypriaus , yea or any one i i Au●… ▪ ris Cypriano , imò & Augustino posterioris . Beliarm . de am●… . grat . l. 6. c. 2. 〈…〉 ▪ ●or ignoratur . Bellar. de script . Eccles. n●ere Cyprians time .

4. Eusibius Emissenus his Homelies ; which whose they are , saith Bellarmine , is not knowne ; l l Baron . annal. tom. 6. Baro●i●s con●…th to haue beene foolishly set out vnder his name ; and m m Sixt. Senens . bibloth . l. 4. Six●… S●…sis ( besides many others ) affirmeth to haue bee●e patched together by some Latine Author out of other mens writings , whereas E●sebi●s was a Greeke .

I adde onely what Bellarmine saith of the most of these Auth●rs together . Di●nysius his booke ( saith hee ) Eusebius his Homilies , and Cyprians Sermons of Christs Cardinall workes , n n Apud nonnullos dubiae su●… , sc●ipturae , vel etiam supposi●… . Bellar. de saeram . confi●… . l. 2. c. 7. are with some counted doubtfull , yea or counterfait writings : 〈…〉 nor is it certainen whether they bee theirs , whose names they beare . Yea of some of them hee o Licet non sit certum an sint illi quorum no●ina praeferunt . Ibid. saith else-where , that p p Reuera 〈…〉 , s●… , Emiss● non po●u●e ess● 〈…〉 Bellrr . in recogni●● & d● Euchar. l. 2. c. 30. it is certaine q q Reuera no● est Cyp● . Idem de confirm . l. 2. 〈…〉 . 7. & de E●●ha● . l. 〈…〉 . c. 13● they are not . And yet are these of the principall Authors that this Defendant to vphold his tortering fabrique produceth ; albeit the things alledged out of them doe not greatly stand him in steed , as shall appeare when wee come at them . But such counterfeit feips doe they commonly tender vs , and will needs enforce vs to accept them for curr●nt 〈…〉 ; when they know that their owne Criticks haue marked and bored them for such , neither will they passe in payment among themselues .

§ 3. His third Exception is that hee citeth a namelesse Author , ignorant and vnsincere , like himselfe ; who m●keth Bishop Fisher affirme the reall presence of Christs bodie in the Sacrament not to be gatherable out of any word in Scripture . True it is , I say , that I finde Bishop Fisher all●adged to affirme , that there is no one word in the Gospell , from which the true presence of Christs flesh and blood in their M●sse may be proued . Which because I had not the 〈…〉 my selfe , nor knew where to haue it , I thus only alledge . And now , to put the matter wholy out of suspence ; that ignorant and vnsincere Author like my selfe , as 〈…〉 ●…rmeth him , who shall no longer be namelesse , is that right Re●erend Prelate , now Lord Bishop of Winchester , r r In Respon● . ●d Apolog. Card. Bellar. 〈…〉 . Praefat. monitor . Se●…nis Princip. Iacobi Reg. cap. 1. in his elaborate worke against Bellarmines Apologi● ; who ( I doubt not ) both had the booke by him there cited , and cited the wordes no otherwise then they are in the booke . No● ( I thinke ) is this Popish Doctor so extreamely brazen-faced ( though they haue many of them in their browes too much of that mettall ) that he dare challenge that M●rour of learning for an ignorant Author . I should esteeme it but to great a grace to be counted ignorant as he is .

§ 4. Fourthly , hauing traced him through his whole Treatise ●e findeth him to be a meere collector out of other Authors , & to haue stol●e out of Bellar. his ●bi●ctions , conc●aling his answeres : and in a word all so poore & so weake , that it may seeme written onely for Ladies and ideotes , vnable to examine . I say no more here in way of defence for my selfe but this onely ; that this should haue beene rather discouered by him in particular , then thus charged in generall , vnlesse he could in the prosecution of it haue better discharged himselfe then he hath done hitherto . The truth is ; he himselfe is so much beholden to Bellarmine , that he is faine euer and anone to referre his Reader to seeke in him what he should say ( if he thought it at least worth the saying ) himselfe . As if it were a good proofe of what he auerreth , or a sufficient resutation of what he findeth obiected , to say , that Bellarmine hath largely prooued the one , or Bellarmine hath sufficiently answered the other . Which if he haue done either , he hath done more by much then he oft attempteth once to doe . And surely his manner of dealing , beside the slightnesse and slendernesse of his Answeres , with a wet finger ( as we say ) passing by the manifold allegations produced as well out of the Auncients , as out of their owne Authors , doth giue a shrewd suspition , that he thought this his writing would neuer be examined by any either learned or vnlearned , vnlesse they were such as wanted euen common sense , sufficient to discouer the absurditie of diuers passages therein .

To giue your Ladiship a taste of some of them before hand .

Absurd Positions , and Contradictions . 1. He saith , that s s Diuis . 4. § 1. a Testament , as all learned know , may well signifie a Legacis . 2. He maketh t t Ibid. our Sauiour to say , This my Blood is the Testament in my blood . 3. He saith , that u u Ibid. Christs blood is offered in the Eucharist , vnbloodily , or not as blood . 4. He expoundeth a place of Theod●ret thus ; * The x Ibid. §. 4. Sacramentall Signes , that is , the Accidents , retaine still the same Substance , that is , the same Accidents , 5. He saith that y y Diuis . 6. §. 3. Christs Body is in the Eucharist , but without bodily existence , that is , his body is there , but not as a body . 6. That z z Ibid. it is there , and yet it followeth not that it is eaten , though that that is there be eaten . 7. He maintaineth a a Ibid. a corporall eating of Christ in the Sacrament , and yet that he is not there corporally eaten . 8. He affirmeth that b b Ibid. ad Arg. 2. all are not saued that beleeue in Christ , and so fe●de spiritually on Christ . 9. He saith that c c Diuis . 8. §. 1. the Sonne of God is contained in the bread that is ea●en in the E●ch●rist ; whereas they dery any br●… at 〈…〉 to be there . 10. He maintaineth that d d Ibid. §. 3. a thing may truly be said to be turned 〈…〉 that that commeth onely in the place of it . 11. He affirmeth that e e Diuis . 9. §. 1. one and the selfe same thing may 〈…〉 . 12 That f f Diuis . 11. §. 4. Christs bodie in the Sacrament hath no exte●… bignesse a● 〈…〉 . 13. He affirmeth g g Diuis . 14. §. 1. Christs very bodie to be present in the Sacrament but in a spirituall manner , or as a Spirit ; and therefore can no more there be broken , then Angels wounded i●b●di●s ●ffirmed , or then his De●… on the Crosse ; and that nothing but acc●●●nts are broken in the Euch●rist . 14. That h h Ibid. §. 3. Christs hiding himselfe in the Sacr●●ent is 〈…〉 ex●…ion of him . 15. He saith , that i i Diuis . 14. §. 3. Christ is not touched in the Sacrament , and yet we touch him : that he in●…th 〈…〉 there , and yet he cannot be touched of vs . 16. He saith , that k k Ibid. §. 1. Christs body is not abused , though mice and Rats eate it . 17. That l l Ibid. §. 4. their Masse is the very selfe same with Christs Sacrifice on the Crosse , and yet it is vnbloodie . 18. He maketh m m Ibid. §. 8. Christ himselfe a memoriall of himselfe . Crosse and wilfull falshoods and falsifications . 1. That n n Diuis . 4. §. 2. I affirme Sacraments to be nothing but bare Signes and Types : and that , o o Diuis . 14. §. 8. we make the Sacrament but a bare Memoriall of Christ . 2. p p Diuis . 35. §. 1. That I affirme them to bee nothing but bare bread and wine . 3. That q q Ibid. §. 2. I affirme Caietane , Bellarmine and Gratian to say the same . 4. That r r Diuis . 6. §. 2. Iustine Martyr describeth the Celebration of the Sacrifice and Sacrament of the Eucharist iust as they now celebrate it . 5. That s s Diuis . 13. §. 1. the Fathers affirme that I●das receiued Christs naturall body . 6. That s s Diuis . 14. §. 5. all Christians in the World celebrate as , they doe . 7. That t t Ibid. §. 7. Augustine and all the auncient Fathers vnderstand Christs words Iohn 6. literally , and not figuratiuely . 8. That u u Ibid. §. 8. all the Fathers expound those words property , This is my bodie . 9. That x x Ibid. Christ did not say of the Eucharist Cup , I will drinke no more of this fruit of the vine . 10. That y y Ibi. §. 11. the Centurists blame all the Fathers almost of Constantines time vniuersally for teaching Transubstantiation , and adoration of the Sacrament . 11. That z z Ibid. §. 12. the auncient Britens held the same . 12. That * * Diuis . 8. §. 1. Origen , Basil , Ierome , and Augustine make the sinne of such as come vnworthily to the Sacrament equall with the sinne of those that betraied and kild Christ .

But passe we from his Preamble to the Worke it selfe .

Diuision 2.

HIs first end●… for three leaues together is to pr●… that there is nothing in the Gospel , whereby it N. P. may appeare that those words of our Sauiour , This is my Body , may not be vnderstood figuratiuely as well as other speeches of the like kinde in Scripture ; as when , a a Gen. 41. 26. Seuen kine are said to be seuen yeeres ; b b Apoc. 17. 1● . ten Hornes ten Kings ; c c 1. Cor. 10. 4. The Rocke was Christ , &c. So he ; not telling withall his Reader ( as he ought to haue done , like an ingenuous solide Author ) the many differences noted by d d Lib. 1. de Euchar c. 11. Bellarmine and other Catholike Authors soluing this very Obiection , betweene Christs literall words , This is my Bodie , and other figuratiue speeches ; these being simply and without any other explication vniformally recounted by three Euangelists , as also by Saint Paul , in their historicall narrations : whereas where the Lambe is called the Passeouer , the Rocke is said to be Christ , &c. Something is still added in the text , to explicate the literall and true meaning of them . The Lambe ( for example ) is called in the same place the sacrifice of the Passeouer : Christ is said to be a spirituall Rocke , &c. And the very scope of visions and parables doth still shew in what sense the words of them are literally to be taken : ●s the seauen kine , ten hornes , &c.

Besides in all such figuratiue speeches , Semper predicatur de disparato disparatum : One thing is said to be another , which cannot be ●…dually or specifically the ●ame , but wholly different in nature from it . A man , ( for example ) as Christ was , cannot 〈…〉 ●…narily be a Vine , a Lyon , a Rocke , &c. But in Christs words , This is my bodie , no such absurdor impossible thing is affirmed ; but onely that the substance which he had in his hands , was his bodie made by the miraculous conuersion of bread into it ; Christs words being operatiue ( saith e e S. Ambros. de myster. cap. 9. S. Ambrose ) and omnipotently able to make that to be which is signified by them in in these words . Perhaps thou wilt say ; I see another thing : How prooue you to me , that I take the bodie of Christ ? And this remaineth yet for vs to prooue , that it is not what nature framed , but what benediction hath consecrated : and that the force of benediction is greater then the force of nature : because euen nature it selfe is changed by benediction . Moses holding a wand in his hand , did cast it from him , and it became a serpent . Now if mans benediction were of such force , as that it could change nature ; what say we of that same diuine Consecration , where the words of our Lord and Sauiour doe worke ? For this Sacrament which thou takest is made by the speech of Christ . And if the speech of Elias was of such pow●● as to draw fire from heauen ; shall not Christs words be of fo●ce to change the formes of the elements ? Thou hast read of the workes of the whole world : Because he spake the word , they were made ; he commaunded , and they were created . The word of Christ then , which of nothing could make that which was not , cannot it not as well change those things which are into that which before they were not ? Since it is not a lesse matter to giue new natures vnto things then to change natures , &c. f f Lib. 4. de Sacram. It is indeede Bread before the words of the Sacraments : But after that consecration is once added vnto it , of bread it is made the flesh of Christ , &c.

g g S. August . Serm. 28. de verb. Dom. I haue told you , ( saith S. Augustine ) that before Christs words that which is offered on the Altar is called bread : but when Christs words are vttered , it is called no more bread , but his bodie . And explicating the Title of the 33. Psalme , wherein these words are written , Et ferebatur in manibus suis ; And-he was carried in his owne hands : Who ( saith he , conc. 1. ) is able to conceiue how this can happen in man ? For who is carried in his owne hands ? A man may be carried in the hands of an other : But in his owne hands he cannot be carried . How this may be literally vnderstood in Dauid , we finde not . But in Christ we doe . For Christ was carried in his owne hands , when giuing his bodie he said , This is my Body . For then did he carry that body in his owne hands , &c.

When as Christ himselfe ( saith S. Cyril ) affirmeth and saith of the bread , This is my Bodie , who may presume to make any doubt thereof ? And when the same Christ confirmeth and saith , This is my Blood , who can doubt , and say it is not his blood ? Againe , h h Cyril . Catech. 4. mystagog . Let vs not consider it as meere bread , or bare wine . For it is the bodie and blood of Christ . For although the sense teacheth thee that it is bread and wine , yet let thy faith confirme thee , that thou iudge not the thing it selfe by thy taste . And a little after ; This knowing for most certaine , that the bread which we see is not bread , although thy taste thinketh it to be bread , but that it is the bodie of Christ : and the wine which we behold , although to the sense of tasting it seemeth to be wine , yet that it is not wine indeede , but the blood of our Sauiour , &c.

i i S. Chrysost. homil. 60. ad popul . Antioch . Let vs beleeue God ( saith S. Chrysostome ) in euery thing ; not gain-saying him , though what he saith may seeme absurd to our sense and cogitation . I beseech thee therefore , that his speech may ouercome our sense and reason . Which point we are to obserue in all things : but especially in holy mysteries ; not onely beholding those things which lie before vs ; but also laying hold of his words ; for his words cannot deceiue vs : but our sense may easily be deceiued . And elsewhere lib. 3. de Sacerd. O miracle ! saith he : O the bountie of God! he that sitteth aboue with his Father , euen in the same instant of time is handled with the hands of all , and deliuereth himselfe to such as are willing to entertaine and imbrace him . Againe , Elias did leaue his garment to his disciple . But the Sonne of God ascending to heauen did leaue his flesh . But Elias by leauing it was deuested thereof : Whereas Christ leauing his flesh to vs , yet ascending to heauen there also he hath it .

AFter that he hath thus spent some part of his railing T. G. Rhetorick in traducing & vilifying this Protestantical Diuine his Aduersary , asignorant , vnacquainted with the Authors he citeth , a petty writer , a meere collector , a filcher , a falsifier , &c. and disgraced his Discourse as consisting of proofes tedious , and superficiall , and allegations impertinent maimedly and corruptly produced ; and ( that nothing may escape him without some nip ) written with a very bad hand , which he taketh to be his owne ; and the partie therefore one ( it may be ) not so fit to write for Ladies as himselfe , being both a man of worth ( as before he intimated himselfe to be ) and writing a faire hand too , though not very Scholerlike , as the worke it selfe sheweth : Hee commeth now to deale with the matter and substance of the Discourse .

Where the first Proposition , that he vndertaketh to oppugne , as I propound it , is this :

These words in the Gospel , This is my Body , may well be taken figuratiuely .

( Which how it may be , I shew by some instances : to wit ; these other in Scripture ; k k Gen. 41. 26. The seuen kine , are seauen yeeres : l l Apoc. 17. 12 The ten hornes , are ten Kings : m m 1 Cor. 10. 4. The Rocke was Christ : or as those other in ordinary speech ; This is Caesar : That is Cicero , &c.

Nor is there any thing in the Gospel that may enforce the contrarie .

Now this worthy man that taxeth me for a meere Collector , and a filcher out of Bellarmine , hath nothing here to answere , but what he fetcheth from Bellarmine , whom he saith I filch all from .

But let vs see how well he vrgeth and maketh good Bellarmines answeres .

1. The words are simply , and without any other explication , simply and vniformally ( for so in his scholerlike manner he speaketh ) recounted by three Euangelists and Saint Paul . And therefore they cannot be taken figuratiuely . For that must follow , or else he speaketh nothing to the purpose . We shall not neede to goe farre to discouer the weakenesse of this consequence . The n n Math. 26. 27 , 28. Mark . 14. 23 , 24. Luke 22. 20. three Euangelists , and o o 1. Cor. 11. 25. S. Paul speaking of the other part of this Sacrament , doe all simply and without another explication vniformally ( to retaine his owne precise tearmes ) say , This Cup is , &c. therefore the Cup cannot be taken figuratiuely there : which if it be not , they must inuent a new Transsubstantiation of some other matter or mettall then the p Luk. 2● . 20. 1. Cor 11. 21. fruite of the Vine , either into the New Testament , or into Christs blood . q Math. 26. 27 , 8. Mark . 14. 24.

§ 2. When the Lambe is called the Passeouer ; and the Rocke said to be Christ , something is added in the Text to explaine the literall true meaning of them . The Lambe for example in the same place is called the Sacrifice of the Passeouer . Christ is said to be a spirituall Rocke , &c.

1. It is not true that he saith ; that in the same place where the Lambe is called the Passeouer , the same Lambe is called the Sacrifice of the Passeouer : There is no more said , Exod. 12. 11. but this ; Ye shall eate it in hast ; it is the Lords Passeouer : there being nothing by way of explication there added . But after indeede verse 27. not the Lambe precisely , but the whole Seruice is said to be the Sacrifice of the Lords Passeouer . When your Children shal aske you , What seruice is this that you obserue ? Then shall you say , It is the Sacrifice of the Lords Passeouer .

Neither is Christ said to be a spirituall Rocke . 1. Cor. 10. 4. But the reall Rocke is called a spirituall Rocke : as the Manna , and the water that issued from it are called r r 1. Cor. 10. 3 , 4. spirituall meate and drinke : And that Rocke for matter corporall , for vse spirituall , is said , as Augustine well obserueth , s s Non dicit , Petra significabat Christum ; sed , Petra erat Christus . Aug. in Leu. q. 57. & Beda ; & Haimo in 1. Cor. 11. Petra i●m erat in creatura , & per actionis modum nuncupata est nomine . Christi , quem significabat : sicut & Isaac Christus erat , cum ad se immolandum ligna portabat . Idem Aug. de Trinit. lib. 2. cap. 6. not to signifie , but to be Christ : Nothing being added more to intimate a figuratiue sense there , then heere in the wordes , This is my Body , which two speeches both t t Aug. in Ioan. tract. 45. Augustine and u u Caietan . in Thom. part. 3. quaest. 57. art. 1. Caietan compare the one with the other .

2. It is senselesse thus to reason ; In some places where figuratiue speeches are vsed , something is added to explicate them : therefore wheresoeuer nothing is added to explicate the figure , the words are not , or cannot be figuratiuely taken .

3. In many of the instances giuen , no such explication is added ; as these , x x Apoc. 17. 12 The ten Hornes are ten Kings ; y y Gen. 41. 26. The a Mat. 28 9. seven Kine are seuen yeeres : This is Caesar : This Cicero , &c.

4. In the very Context there is added that which sheweth the sense to bee figuratiue . For that which is called Christs blood by the Euangelist in the one verse , is expresly said to be the fruit of the vine in the next verse . And that which is called Christs body by the Apostle , is immediately after , more then once or twice expounded to bee b b 1 Cor. ●1 . 24 , 26 , 27 , 28. bread .

§ 3. The very scope ( saith he , or Bellarmine by him ) of visions and parables doth still shew in what sense the words are literally to be taken ; as , the seuen kine , ten hornes , &c.

And doth not the very nature of signes and Sacraments shew in what sense the wordes vsed of , or in them , are to be taken ? to wit , figuratiuely and symbolically , not properly or essentially . For what are Signes and Sacraments but reall parables ? both therefore tearmed Mysteries , as c c 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Chry●●st . in 1 Cor. hom 7. Idem fere Aug. de doct. Christ . l. 3. c. 1. & contr. Max. l. 3. c. 22 , Chrysostome noteth ; because one thing is seene in the one , as heard in the other , and some other thing vnderstood . Or what is more v●uall then ( as d d Aug. in Leuit q. 57. & epist. 23. & ep. 102. & ad Simplic . l. 2. q. 3. & in Ioan . tract. 63. Augustine and e e Autor de Cardin. Christi oper. serm. de Coen . Heruaeus sub Anselmi nomine in 1 Cor. 10. Thom. de differ . verb. diuin. & human . &c. others well obserue ) that Signes and Sacraments be called by the names of those things , which they are signes and sacraments of ? What Sacrament also is there , wherein or whereof such speeches are not vsed ? Circumcision is called f f Gen. 17. 13. the Covenant : the pasohall Lambe , g g Exod. 1● . 11. the Passeouer : the Rocke , h h 1 Cor. 10. 4. Christ : Bap●●sme , i i Ti. 〈…〉 . 5. the Laver of Regeneration . And in like manner , saith k k Sicut secundum quendam modum sacramentum corpotis Christ● corpus Christi est , sacramentum sanguinis Christi , sanguis Christi●st ; ita sacramentum fidei fides est . Aug. ep. 23. Augustine , is the bread Christ● body ; the name of the thing signified ( saith l l Theodoret. dialog. 1. Theodoret ) being giuen to the signe . So that whereas this worthy writer thus argueth out of Bellarmine ; In visions and parables the very scope euer sheweth that the things spoken are to bee vnstoode figuratiuely : But these places , the seven kine , and the ten hornes , are visions and parables : And therefore the things therein spoken are to be taken figuratiuely . Why may not we as wel reason on this wise ? The very nature of signes and sacraments leadeth vnto this , that when the names of the things whereof they are signes and sacraments are given vnto them , it is to bee vnderstood not properly , but figuratiuely . But it is a Sacrament wherein and whereof these speeches are vsed , This is my bodie , and This is my blood : These wordes therefore , wherein the name of the thing signified is giuen to the Sacrament , are to bee vnderstood figuratiuely . And so hee hath from his owne grounds by due proportion somewhat more to conclude then was before required ; to wit , not onely , that there is nothing that may enforce vs to expound them literally , but that there is somewhat of moment to induce vs to expound them figuratiuely .

§ 4. In all such figuratiue speeches ( saith he further out of Bellarmine ) Semper praedicatur de disparato disparatum ; One thing is said to be another , when it cannot be indi●idually or specifically the same , but wholly different in nature from it . A man for example , as Christ was , cannot but similitudinarily be a Rock , a Vine , or a Lion . But in Christs words , This is my body , no such absurd or impossible thing is affirmed ; but only that the substance which he had in his hands was his body made by the miraculous conversion of bread into it .

1. In this speech of our Sauiour , This is my body , as well as in that speech of the Prophet , m m Ezec. 5. 5. This is Ierusalem , or in that speech of the Apostle , n n 1. Co. 10. 4 The Rocke was Christ , is one thing , to wit , bread ( as is afterward prooued both by the course of the context , the words of the Apostle , and the doctrine of the ancient Fathers ) said to bee an other thing , to wit , the flesh of Christ , which is wholly different in nature from it . Nor can this worthy Disputer prooue them contrary , vnlesse you grant him the point in question , which heere hee shamefully beggeth to make good his Assertion , to wit , that that which Christ had in his hands was his bodie made by the miraculous conversion of bread into it ?

2. A man may as well be a rocke ; as a rocke may bee a man , or bread may be flesh . And why was it not as possible for the rocke to be turned into Christ , and so to become Christ , as for bread to bee turned into the bodie of Christ , and so to be the flesh of Christ ? that the one might be vnderstood properly as well as the other . If they will say , It is impossible that the rocke should bee turned into the flesh of Christ , before Christ was incarnate , I might answer them , as they vse to do vs ; that God is able to do all things . And questionlesse it is * * Yea some of them in effect confesse the one to be as well possible as the other : Ante incarnationem Christi potuit . Eucharistia fuisse ita vera sicut nunc . Et tum fuisset sub speciebu● verum & idem corpus Christi illud quod sumptum est de virgine sicut modò . &c. Gabr. Biel. in Can. Miss. lect. 47. as possible that the rock should be turned into that flesh , that as yet was not ; as that a little thinne wafer cake , or the compasse of it at least , should containe Christs whole and entire body here on earth , while the very selfe same indiuiduall body should be whole and entire still in heaven . A creature may as well be , and yet not be at once , as a naturall body may at the same time be wholly and entire thus contracted on earth , and yet whole and entire also in his full stature in heauen . Yea how is it not a thing absurd and impossible , that Christs body sitting whole and entire at the table , should hold the selfe-same body whole and entire in its two hands on the table , and should giue the selfe-same body away whole and entire ouer the table to twelue seuerall persons , to goe seuerally into each of their mouthes still whole and entire , and to become so many whole and entire humane organicall bodies in their mouthes , as in chewing they made pieces of that that was giuen them , and yet the selfe-same body that they did thus take and eate , remaine sitting there still vnstirred and vntouched ? If these things be not absurda absurdorum absurdissima ( as he speaketh ) as monstrous absurdities as euer were any , I know not what are .

3. Obserue how these men that cannot endure to heare vs say , This , or that thing is impossible : yet tell vs themselues of many impossibilities ; and that euen then also when they speake of these miraculous mysteries , in the confuting one of another . It is impossible ( saith this worthy writer ) for a man , as Christ was , otherwise then similitudinarily , to be a rock , or a vine . o o Thom. Aqui . contr. Gent. l. 1. c. 48 It is impossible ( saith Aquinas ) that a man should be an Asse . p p Est impossibile quod panis sit corpus Christi . Gloss. ad Grat. de conscr . d. 2. c. Panis est It is impossible ( saith the Glosse ) that bread should be Christs bodie . q q Impossibilis est planè haec sententia , nisi tropic è accipiatur . Bellar. de Euchar . l. 1. c. 1. It is altogether impossible ( saith Bellarmine ) that this sentence , This bread is my body , should be true properly . r r Gabr. Biel. in Can. Miss. lect. 80. It is impossible ( saith Biel ) that Christs body should be broken or divided and so bee spoiled , being impassible . s s Thon . Aq. sum . part 3. q. 81. art. 3. It is impossible ( saith Aquinas ) that Christ in his last Supper should giue his body impassible . t t Idem ibid. q. ●7 . a. 1. It is impossible that his body being now impassible should be altered in shape or hew . u u Ibid. q. 76. a. 8. It is impossible that Christs body in his proper shape should be seene in any other place , but that one onely wherein he is definitiuely . x x Ibid. art. 6. It is impossible that the substantiall forme of bread should remaine after consecration : or that the substance of bread and wine should abide there . y y Ibid. q. 75. art. 2. It is impossible that Christs body by a locall motion should come to bee in the Sacrament . “ “ Ibid. q. 76. a. 6. It is impossible that the same thing should both rest and mooue at once . “ “ Bellar. de Euchar. l. 3. c. 16. It is impossible that the same body should by locall motion arriue in diuers severall places at once . It is impossible that Christs should personally assume the bread in the Sacrament . * * Thom. sum . p. 3. q. 75. a. 3. It is impossible that Christs body should bee in the Sacrament any other way but by the conversion of bread into it . All these and many other impossibilities they tell vs of , that cannot endure to heare vs speake of any . Now if they will tell vs why these things are impossible , we shall as soone tell them againe in their owne wordes , why such a Transubstantiation and reall presence , as they dreame of , is impossible . z Ibid. a. 2.

4. How doth this follow : There is no impossible thing affirmed in Christs words : Therefore they must needs bee taken properly , or they cannot bee taken figuratiuely ? Hee might by the same reason prooue that the Apostles words where he saith of himselfe , a a 1 Cor. 15. 3● I die dayly ; or where he saith , b b Gal. 2. 19. I am crucified together with Christ ; or where he saith of the Galathians that c c Gal. 3. 1. Christ was crucified among them ; or the Psalmists as some fantasticall d d Vide Drus. quaest. l. 2. q. 39 & Paul . Rieium de anima coeli . Rabbines haue held , where hee saith of the Heavens , that e e Psal. 19. 1. they relate Gods glory , &c. or our Sauiours , where hee saith , that f f Luk. 16. 24. the tongue of the Rich mans soule was in torment ; must of necessity be all vnderstood literally and properly , because there is nothing simply impossible affirmed in them .

§ . 5. He telleth vs in Conclusion ; that the meaning of our Sauiour Christs wordes is this ; The Substance which I hold in my hands is my Body made by the miraculous conuersion of bread into it . But where is ought in the Text that inti nateth this miraculous conuersion ? yea if this were the sense of them , it should be made Christs body ere those wordes were spoken of it : Whereas hee and his associates commonly hold that this miraculous conuersion is wrought by those wordes , This is my body , and * * In vltimo instanti , in quo pro●ertur vox vltima , ponitur effectus verborum in esse . Bellar. de Euchar. l 1. c. 11. is not effected till those wordes be all out ; which they giue the Priest a speciall charge thereof g g Vno spiritu . tractim dicat . Cu●tel . Miss. in Missali . to vtter speedily with one breath . And here let this profound doughty Doctor giue an ignorant petty writer leaue to demand of him , what is ment by the word This , in those wordes , This is my body ; ( for I suppose hee will not be so absurd as the Glosser is , to say that h h Ad haec dico , quod per hanc dictionem , Hoc , nihil demonst●a●ur . Glos. ad Gr●t . de conscr . d. 2. c. Timorem & alii nonnulli apud Durand . ration . diuin. l 4. part. 2. in 6. part . Canon . Hoc or this there signifieth nothing at all : ) or what that substance was ( as hee speaketh ) that Christ held in his hands when hee spake the word , Hoc , or this . If it were Christs body made before of bread , then the vttering of those wordes did not then , nor doth now worke any conuersion of the bread into Christs body : for nothing can bee turned into it selfe , or into that that already it is : or i i Si substantia panis fuisset adhuc , quando Christus offerebat Apostolis cibum illum coelestem , pronomen , Hoc , demonstra●●e● panem , & de pane dixis●et , quod esset corpus suum , &c. quod' est impossibile . Christ . de Cap. Font. de necess. correct . schol. Theol. ad Sixt. 5. Pp. l. 1. c. 2. if it were bread still , ( as for ought ap peareth in the text , still it was ) then must this needs bee the summe and sense of Christs wordes , This bread is my body : and so by his owne rule , when disparatum de disparato dicitur , one thing is said to be another different in nature from it , it must needs be taken figuratiuely .

§ 6. Well wotting that there was no such thing either in the Text , or gatherable ( to vse his owne tearmes ) out of it : hee would faine finde out some Author , that would say that for him , that the text it selfe will not ; and alleagdeth therefore some few Testimonies . Concerning which I might well say , as hee saith , if I would doe as hee doth , that they haue beene answered long since by the L. Morney , the B. Morton , D. Fulke , and others , and hee doth not deale sincerely in concealing their Answers ; and so turne my Reader over to them , as his manner is , when he hath nothing to answer . But I answer to them severally .

1. Ambrose is alleadged out of his bookes de Mysterijs , &c. and de Sacramentis : which bookes , howsoeuer i i Vide Rob. Coqui Censuram Patrum . edit. 2. for diuers passages of them , and phrases vsed in them , they may well be doubted of whether they were written by him or no ; and Posseuine himselfe implieth that some haue denied it , when hee saith , that k k Cum reliquis paene omnibus Posseuin . apparat . all almost hold them to be his : and part of them ( as we shall see anone ) goeth commonly vnder another name : yet not to stand thereupon , but admit them for his . Nothing there said doth necessarily enforce any such Transubstantiation as the Romanists hold ; yea some subsequent wordes , if they had beene annexed , would euidently speake against it .

For first , Ambrose there expressely teacheth , that the creatures of bread and wine still abide euen after Consecration , which vtterly ouerthroweth the Popish Transubstantiation . If ( saith he ) there were so much force in the word of the Lord , ( in the worke of Creation ) that those things began by it to be that before were not ; how much more operatiue is it to cause l l Vt sint quae erant , & in aliud commutentur . Ambr. de sacram . l. 4. c. 4. citatus etiam à Lumbard . sentent . l. 4. d. 20. D. & Tho. Aqui. sum . p. 3. q. 7 8. a. 4. that things should be still what they were before , and be changed into another things . So that by this Ambroses confession the elements remaine still what they were , and yet are changed indeed , which wee deny not , into that which they were not ; as waxe is turned into a seale , being annexed to a deed ; though it remaine still for substance what erst it was .

2. That which Ambrose saith in the latter place , that m m De sacram . l. 4. c. 4. This bread is bread before the wordes sacramentall ; but when consecration commeth to it , it is of bread made Christs flesh ; that hee speaketh in these wordes n n De myster. c. 9. in the former place , which this mangler of him omitteth ; o o Ante benedictionem alia species nominatur ; post consecrationem corpus Christi significatur . Before the blessing of the heauenly wordes is another kinde named , but after Consecrationis Christs body signified . And againe p p De sacram . l. 4. c. 4. in the latter place : Wine and water is put into the Cup , but by Consecration it becommeth blood . Thou wilt say , q q Speciem sanguinis non video ; sed habet similitudinem I see no kind or shew of blood . But it hath ( saith hee ) a similitude of it . For as thou hast taken a similitude of death in ( Baptisme , hee meaneth as lib. 3. cap. 7. so ) r r Similinudinem pretiosi sanguinis bibis . thou drinkest a similitude of Christs precious blood , &c. And thereupon he concludeth , s s Didicisti ergò , quia quod accipis , corpus est Christi . Thou hast learned now , that that which thou receiuest is Christs body . So that it is in regard of signification and similitude that the one is said to be Christs flesh , and the other his blood , as this Ambrose explicateth himselfe .

3. Expounding what manner of change hee meaneth , when he saith , They are changed into that which erst they were not . * * De sacram . l. 4. c. 4. Tu ipse ante fuisti ; sed era● vetus creatura : Posteaquam consecratus es , noua creatura esse cepisti . Thou thy selfe ( saith he ) wast before ; but thou wast an old creature : after thou wast consecrated , thou begannest to be a new creature ; which newnesse yet ( as Tertullian well obserueth ) importeth * * Tam vetustatem hominis quam nouitatem ad moralem non substantialem differentiam pertinere defend●mus . Tertul. de resurr. carn. no corporall , but a spirituall change in the party so consecrated , not in substance , but in quality differing from what he was before .

4. In the next u u De sacram . l. 4. c. 5. Chapter , relating the wordes of their Church Liturgie then in vse , hee calleth that holy oblation , x x Quod est figura corporis & sanguinis . D. n. l. c. y Ibid. c. 5. a figure of Christs body and blood : which they entreate God to accept of , 2 2 Sicut suscipere dignatus es munera Abel , & sacrificium Abrahae . as hee did Abels gifts , and Abrahams sacrifice , &c. which cannot bee vnderstood of the very reall sacrifice of Christ himselfe , vnlesse they will make the Priest an intercessor to God the Father in the behalfe of Christ Iesus . Of which also more hereafter .

2. Out of Augustine are cited two Testimonies . In the former whereof he sheweth , how iudicious he is in the choice of his allegations , ( that for which he taxeth the Diuine he dealeth with ) and how well seene in and acquainted with the Authors he alleadgeth . There are diuers Sermons set out vnder Augustines name , ( for this is no new thing with them to forge daily as well new workes , as new writers ) which they cite many of them , sometime vnder the name of Augustine , sometime vnder the name of this or that other Father : for they can finde Fathers for their bastards as they list themselues . Of these many by a a Bellar. de scrip . Eccles. Bellarmine , b b Baron annal. tom. 4. Baronius , c c Eras. in censur Erasmus , d d Louaniens . in censur . append tom. 10. the Diuines of Louaine , and diuers others are confessed to bee meere counterfeits . One whereof is the Sermon de Verb. Dom. 28. which this worthy Writer here citeth ; and indeede is nothing else but a whole Chapter verbatim taken out of the fift booke of that worke de Sacramentis , which he cited last before as Ambroses . So that he doth herein as Captaines , that wanting of their full number borrow one of an other , and so produce the same party by one name to day as one mans souldier , and by an other name the next day , as an other mans souldier , a gun-man ( it may be ) to day , and a pike-man to morrow . For this Author was but euen now Ambrose ; and now he is sodainely become Augustine ; as if some such spel had beene said ouer him , as they suppose to be said ouer their Hoast . And thus ( as their common guise is ) they make their coined creatures , like plaiers on a stage , sometime to act one part , and sometime another . And this may well giue iust cause to suspect the authoritie of the Author , when sometime he is Ambrose , and sometime Augustine , and it may well be neither . For he is hardly euer beleeued that is taken once in two tales . And this Erasmus his annotation would haue giuen him some hint of , had he beene so well acquainted with the Authors he citeth as he would seeme to be . Besides that this Ambrose , or Augustine , or what euer he be , when he is cited to giue in euidence , saith nothing but this , that that which before Christs words is called bread , is after them called no more bread , but Christs bodie . Which vnlesse it be meant , that it is not called onely bread , but Christs body also , e e Deut. 5. 3. Ier. 3. 22 , 23. Hos. 6. 6. Non enim Dominus respuit sacrificia ; sed non vult illa , si ab●que miserico●dia sint . Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 7. which manner of speaking is not vnusuall ) he will not deny himselfe to be most manifestly vnture : for he acknowledgeth a little after that euen after consecration the Apostle diuers times so tearmeth it . And if it be so vnderstood , what maketh it either against vs , who acknowledge ( with the Auncients , ) that it is commonly called , as all other signes ordinarily , by the name of the thing it signifieth ; or for them , who should prooue , not that it is commonly called Christs body , but that it is really and essentially it . It is no more then as if one had said ; Waxe before it is set to a deede and imprinted , is called waxe : but after that , it is not called waxe , but a Seale . Meane while it may hence appeare , that either this Writer ( what euer he be ) is scarce well acquainted with the writings of those Fathers that he citeth , or else he is wretchedly bent to abuse and delude those that he dealeth with .

The latter Authoritie is taken out of Augustines first Sermon on Psal. 33. wherein he saith , that Christ was carried in his owne hands , when he said , This is my body . And here againe this great Doctor sheweth either his little acquaintance with Augustine , or his fraudulent dealing with those whom he desireth to delude . For Augustine repeating againe in the very next Sermon what hee had deliuered in the former , putteth in those words , which shew what his meaning was : When he commended ( saith he ) vnto them his body and blood , he tooke into his hands , what the faithfull know : ( that was nothing , they themselues will graunt , but f f Math. 26. 26. bread , when he tooke it . ) And g g Ipse se portabat quod●m modo . Aug. ibid. conc. 2. he carried himselfe after a manner , when he said , This is my body . And if you will know what that , after a manner , meaneth , Augustine himselfe will best tell you , where he saith elsewhere ; h h Sacramenta plae●unque etiam ipsarum rerum nomina accipiunt , &c. Ergò secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christi ; corpus Christi est . Aug. epist. 23. The Sacrament of Christs body is after a manner Christs body : because Sacraments for the most part be are the names of those things whereof they are Sacraments . After a manner then it is the body of Christ . And yet is it bread still . For so Augustine againe i i Aug. de ver. Dom. Serm. 3● . elsewhere ; k k Panem quem Dominus gestauit in manibus . It was Bread that Christ carried in his hands at his last Supper : l l Ipsam coenam fide quotidiè manducamus : credimus in Christum quem fide accipimus . Modicum accipimus , & in corde saginamur . Which Supper we to this day eate daily by Faith ; and in it by faith receiue Christ , in whom we beleeue ; and taking a little modicum , are spiritually fatted .

His third Author is S. Cyril , that should be Bishop of Ierusalem a little after the time of Constantine the Great : An Author not without good cause shrewdly suspected . Vnder his name our Popish Father-forgers haue set out diuers things : Among others an Epistle of his that should be written to S. Augustine of S. Ieromes decease , and of the miracles that he wrought . Which Epistle is so grosse and ridiculous , writing of the death of one that many a long yeere out-liued him that should write it , that albeit many of them are not ashamed to m m Lensorus de purgator . Eckius hom. 2. Dominic . 3. Aduent . Peres . de tradit . & alii . cite it as Cyrils for the maintenance of sundry Popish points , yet others of them are enforced n n Bellarm. censur . apud Posseui● . to confesse the worke countorfeit , and sticke not to brand the o o Baron annal. tom. 5. ann. 420. & in Martyrolog. Rom. Sept. 30. Author of it for an hereticall impostor , and a loud lier . And of late they haue set out vnder the name of the same Cyrill p p Posseuin . in appar . tom. 2. in August . two bookes of Catechising ; which besides sundry passages in them that argue a late writer , as q q Catech. 4. & 10. & 13. where he speaketh of the Inuention of the Crosse as r r L●●●um crucis testatur apud nos apparens , vsque ad hodiernum diem , & apud illos , qui secundum fidem ex ilio capie●tes , hinc uniuersum orbem ferè iam replerunt . Catech. 10. a matter long before his time , and saith that the whole world was then filled with the pieces of it , whereas r r Baron . annal. tom. 3. an. 326. the true Cyril was liuing at the very time when the Crosse is reported to haue beene found by Helen ; the same Catech●sings are t t Ios. Simler . in Biblioth. & Gretz . contra . Petr. Molin . reported to bee found in some written copies vnder the name one Iohn Bishop of Ierusalem , of which name there was u u Magdeburgen● . Centur. 8. cap. 10. one about the 2. Nicene Councel , some hundreds of yeeres after that Cyrils decease . So that they may as well cite that second Councel of Nice for the adoration of Images , as this counterfeit Cyril for their Transubstantiation , vnlesse they can bring sounder proofe for him , and better informe vs what he is , and whence he came . The authoritie of this Catechiser is no better then the authoritie of that Epistler for ought can bee shewed ; which yet x x Vernier . in magn. & vniuers . concil . in this very Argument is also produced , and y y Vide Eckium vbi sup. is enforced vpon vs as an indubitate and authenticall Author . Such bastard pearles , Bristow diamonds , and glasse bugles are these poore pedlars , like pety chapmen faine to stuffe their packets with , for want of better and choiser wares . And yet may wee but haue leaue to expound this Cyril , or whosoeuer he is else , by himselfe , we shall soone shew him to say no more then we willingly admit . For in a a Catech. mystag. 4. the same Catechising that is here alleadged , b b 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Doe not regard ( saith he ) these things , as bare ●read and wine . And in c c Catech. mystag. 3. the Catechising next before ; d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Doe not suppose that ointment to be bare ointment . For as the Bread of the Eucharist , after the inuocation of the holy Ghost , is e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . no longer bare bread , but Christs bodie : so this holy Oyntment after inuocation is f f 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . no more bare or common ointment , but a gift of Christ and the holy Ghost , by the presence of his Deitie . And looke what he saith concerning the not trusting of our senses in the matter of the Eucharist , the same doth g g Autor de initiat . myst . c. 〈…〉 . the Ambrose before cited say of the Sacrament of Baptisme . h h Quid vidisti ? Aqu●s . Sed non solas , &c. What seest thou ? saith he . Water : but not water alone , &c. First , the Apostle teacheth thee to contemplate not the things that are seene but the things that are not seene . Beleeue the presence of the Deitie . For how could it worke there , if it were not present . And againe afterward ; i i Non solis corporis tui credas oculis : magis videtur quod non videtur . Beleeue not thy bodily eyes alone : that is better seene that is not seene . And say not we as much ? that it is not bare bread , nor bare wine that is offered vs in the Eucharist , ( whatsoeuer this lying wretch hereafter shamelesly auoweth , as when we come to it shall be shewed ) which is all that our outward sense is able to enforme ; but spirituall signes and seales , and effectuall instruments of grace , which the eye of our soule is alone able to conceiue , and our faith to assure vs of .

4. Chrysostome is alleadged ; but little to the purpose . The former allegation is here cited out of Sermon 60. ad Popul . Antioch . which Sermon this Answerer , had hee beene so well acquainted with the Author hee citeth , as would beseeme such a Doctor as he professeth himselfe to be , he should haue found to be an Homily neuer made by Chrysostome , but by some other composed of part of two Sermons of his , on the Glosse of S. Matthew pieced together , to wit , the 83. and the 51. according to the Latin , or the 82. and 50. according to the Greeke . The place produced is out of the 83. on Matthew : for that is the proper place of it . In which Sermon Chrysostome speaketh no more of the Eucharist , then he doth of the Sacrament of Baptisme , in the very next words . k k Chrysost. in Math. Lat. Serm. 83. Greg. Serm. 8● . It is no sensible thing ( saith hee ) that Christ hath left vs , but in things indeed sensible matters all intelligible . l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In like manner it is in Baptisme . By a sensible thing , to wit , water is the gift giuen , but the thing that is there wrought , to wit , regeneration and renovation , is a thing intelligible . If thou wert not corporall , he would haue giuen thee the gifts themselues naked and spirituall : but because thy soule is conioyned with thy body , thereforeby sensible things he giveth thee things intelligible . And in m m Chrysost. in Math. Lat. Serm. 51. Grae. Serm. 50. the other Sermon out of which that Homily is pieced : Beleeue thou that the same supper wherein Christ himselfe sate downe , is now celebrated . For there is no difference betweene this and that . For n n 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 &c. it is not a man that doth the one , and Christ the other . But it is Christ himselfe that doth both the one and the other . When therefore thou seest the Priest reaching somewhat to thee : o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . do not imagine that it is the Priest that doth it , but that it is Christs hand that is stretched out to thee . For as when thou art baptised , p p 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. hee doth not baptize thee ; but it is God that holdeth thy head by his inuisible power ; and neither Angel nor Archangel , nor any other dare approach and touch : So is it now also . Now what is here spoken but of Mysteries or Sacraments in generall , applied after in particular , as well to Baptisme as to the Eucharist ? and therefore may as well prooue a reall or essentiall transmutation in the one as in the other : and if not in both , in neither , since the very same things are spoken of either : to wit , that we must in either regard not so much what our bodily eye seeth , as what the spirituall eye of the beleeuing soule by faith apprehendeth , and vpon ground of Gods word beleeueth : and that by things sensible are things intelligible conueighed to vs , and effected in vs as well in the one as in the other .

The 2. place of Chrysostome is out of his 3. booke de Sacerdotio . Wherein this alleadger of him fareth as ill as in the former allegation . Chrysost. saith indeed that Christ that sitteth aboue with his Father in heauen , is q q 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . at that time ( to wit , when the Eucharist is celebrated ) held in the hands of each one , and offreth himself to those , that will claspe him about and embrace him . But not to insist vpon what was aboue said by him , that Christ himselfe and not Man both there and in Baptisme administreth ; nor vpon other phrases in the same place vsed by him , both before of the same Eucharist , that r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the people are all died purple-red in it with Christs blood ; and afterward of Baptisme , that in it s s 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . wee are buried together with Christ : Which cannot bee vnderstood but figuratiuely : he sheweth in the very next words to those here cited , what his meaning was in them , and how all this is done , when hee saith ; t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And this they doe all then with the eyes of faith .

The third place is not , as he seemeth to cite it , out of the same booke , but out of his 2. Sermon ad populum Antiochenum . He found them ioyned together in Bellarmine , out of whom he hath all , and therefore tooke them ( it seemeth ) to bee both out of one booke . Chrysostome there saith that Christ hath left vs his flesh , and yet hath it still in Heauen . But how that may be verified , he himselfe sheweth in the same place a little before , when he saith , that u u Erat posthae duplex Elias ille : Et erat sursum Elias , & deorsum Elias . there was a twofold Elias , ( whom he compareth Christ withall , ) when Elias was translated , an Elias aboue , and an Elias beneath ; he meaneth Elisaeus , on whom v v 2. King . 2. 5 rested the spirit of Elias , whom hee therefore esteemeth a symbolicall Elias ; as Iohn the Baptist is called x x Mal. 4. 5. Elias , because he came y y Luk. 1. 15. in the power and the spirit of Elias , and so was also Elias , as z z Math. 11. 14 our Sauiour auerreth ( and a a Aug. in Ioan. tract. 4. Augustine well obserueth ) though b b Ioh. 1. 21. not essentially Elias , yet c c Math. 17. 12 , 13. Elias symbolically . And so here in like manner . Christs essentiall flesh is in heauen , whither they must also , saith Chrysostome , d d Chrysost. in 1. Cor. homil. 24. ascend , and flie vp like Eagles , that will haue it : his symbolicall Flesh is here vpon earth , as the Symbolicall Elias was , in the Sacrament of his body ; which ( saith Augustine ) e e Secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christi corpus Christi est . Aug. ep. 23. in some sort is his body , being a Signe and Sacrament of it .

And thus you see what substantiall proofes this great Blusterer hath brought to prooue their Transubstantiation : and how well he hath acquit himselfe for a man well read in the auncient Fathers , as hereafter hee boasteth himselfe to be .

Diuision 3.

THis is the true Doctrine of the auncient Fathers : and N. P. so plainely and vnanswerably doe they teach the literall vnderstanding of our Sauiours words , and the miraculous conuersion of the bread & wine of the Altar by the omnipotent force of them into the bodie and blood of Christ ; telling vs that we must not beleeue our sense or reason telling vs the contrarie ; nor conceiue it so impossible , as our carnall and grosse Aduersaries pretend , for the bodie of our Sauiour to bee in heauen , and in numberlesse places of the earth together i●…sibly existing . Whose plaine testimonies are in a whole Booke together by learned f f Lib 2. de Euchar. Bellarmine truly and particularly collected : where also he refuteth the shifting answeres of Protestanticall Diuines vnto them ; soluing all Obiections gathered out of their obscurer sayings against Catholicke doctrine . Who is by this Minister ignorantly or malitiously traduced , and made directly against the whole drift of his Controuersie to teach a probabilitie at least of Protestant Doctrine about the figuratiue and tropicall sense of our Sauiours words , This is my Body ; because disputing against Luther ; supposing as well as he the literall sense of our Sauiours words , argumento ad hominem , by an Argument drawne from Luthers owne grounds , hee driueth Luther either to confesse Transubstantiation necessarily purported in our Sauiours words , This is my Bodie ; or for to admit barely ( against the knowne opinion of himselfe and all his disciples ) a figuratiue and metaphoricall vnderstanding of them . For if Christs words be literally to be vnderstood , and bread also admitted to remaine in the Sacrament , the Pronoune , Hoc , This , would naturally and necessarily demonstrate it , and not the bodie of Christ inuisibly therein present , and so bread in our Sauiours speech should falsly be affirmed to be Christs bodie : Whereas if bread remaine not , but be truly conuerted into Christs bodie , no such absurd and impossible sense followeth out of the literall vnderstanding of Christs words . Why then doth this Minister falsely make Bellarmine in this place seeme to affirme that there is nothing in the holy Text , that may enforce vs to beleeue that Christ is corporally present in the Sacrament , or ( which is all one ) that may enforce vs literally and not figuratiuely to vnderstand Christs words , &c. Ignorance and mistaking must be my aduersaries best meanes to salue this falshood and many others which doe ensue afterward .

IN the next place hauing digressed all this while from T. G. the Argument he should haue answered , he addeth that that which they teach concerning the literall sense of Christs words and the miraculous conuersion of the bread and wine into the very body and blood of Christ , is the true doctrine of the auncient Fathers : and to saue himselfe the labour of proouing that which neither he , nor any of his side shall euer be able to make good , he turneth his Reader ouer to Bellarmine , out of whom he picked all that before he had said , and telleth him that he hath both prooued it , and refuted all the shifting answeres of the Protestanticall Diuines . Bellarmine ( it seemeth ) is his Aiax , behinde whose shield hee must shroud himselfe , or else he dare abide no brunt of encounter againe .

Now to make Bellarmine againe some part of requitall , because he is so much beholden to him , he will doe his best to cleere him from either the ignorant or malicious abuse of this bad Minister , by whom he is traduced and made directly against the whole drift of his Controuersie to teach , a probabilitie at least of the Protestant doctrine concerning the figuratiue sense of our Sauiours words , and to affirme , &c. It is true ; I say that Bellarmine granteth , and so g g Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 10. he doth , ( I haue set downe his owne words ; they are not , nor can be denied ) that these words , This is my bodie , may imply either such a reall change as the Catholickes hold , or such a figuratiue change , as the Caluinists hold : and that is all I say of him . The truth contrary to the maine drift and scope of his controuersie , ( as it falleth out oft with those that against their owne knowledge maintaine errour ) did start from him vnawares . Nor is the question now de re , but de propositione , as Bellarmine there speaketh : the question is not of the maine matter in controuersie whether Christ did really conuert the Bread into his Body ; which Bellarmine affirmeth ; but whether that speech of our Sauiour may not beare such a figuratiue sense as we giue , which Bellarmine in plaine and precise tearmes granteth . And all that this his Champion can say for him is nothing but this , that Bellarmine doth not say that which in expresse words I haue cited out of him , without alteration of any one syllable ; and the falshood therefore lyeth manifestly on him that denieth it , when he knoweth them to be Bellarmines owne wordes in precise tearmes . But he hopeth ( it seemeth ) that with facing hee may carry away any thing .

I will adde a little more out of Bellarmine , and yet no more then himselfe in precise tearmes saith . h h Scotus in sent. l 4. dist. 11. quaest. 3. Scotus and i i Cameracens . ibid. Cameracensis , two great Schoolemen , grant that the doctrine of Transubstantiation cannot necessarily bee gathered out of the text of the Evangelists ; howsoeuer they hold it , because the Church of Rome , that cannot erre , hath so expounded it . And Bellarmine himselfe k k Bellar. de Euchar. l. 3. c. 23. granteth that l l Non est omnino improbabile . this is not improbable : For m m Etiamsi Scriptura , quam nos adduximus , videatur tam clar● , vt possit cogere hominem non prote●uum , tamen an ita si● meritò dubitar● potest , cum homines doctissin●i , ac acutissimi , &c. contrar . sentiant . though the Scripture ( saith he ) that we bring , may seeme so cleere , that it may constraine a man that is not wilfull to yeeld it , yet it may well bee doubted , whether it be so or no ; since most learned men , and most acute , such especially as Scotus was , are of a contrary minde . And now we haue besides Scotus and others , three Cardidinals , Card. Bellarmine , Card. Caietan , and Card. Cameracensis , all confessing that the Popish doctrine of Transubstantiation cannot cleerely or vnanswerably bee prooued by Scripture . I conclude then with mine Adversaries grant ; It is all one ( saith he ) to say that there is nothing in the text that may enforce vs to beleeue that Christ is corporally present in the Sacrament , and to say that there is nothing to enforce vs literally and not figuratiuely to vnderstand Christs words . Card. Caietan freely confesseth the latter : and vnlesse hee can disprooue Caietan ( which as yet hee hath not assaied to doe ) he must by his owne confession yeeld the former .

Diuision 4.

PAge 3. He maketh a great stir in asking , how the Chalice N. P. may be called the new Testament in our Sauiours blood . I answer him , because our Sauiours blood by the effusion whereof his last W●ll and Testament was confirmed and our eternall inheritance purchased and applied vnto vs , is in this Chalice really contained and vnbloodily offered on the altar for vs . For the word Testament ( as all learned men know ) is apt to import not onely the interiour act of the dying mans Wil , but also the authenticall instrument or deed , wherein that his dying Will is contained , and his legacy conueighed vnto vs , which here in the Chalice is our Sauiours blood to cleanse and inebriate de●●●t soules .

Afterward in the same page confusedly and tediously hee endeauoureth to shew the bread and wine to bee no other then bare signes and types of Christs true body and blood ; as Alexanders picture representeth his absent person ; as Circumcision is called the Couenant , because it was a signe thereof , &c. either not vnderstatding like a dull Scholler his Master Caluines doctrine , or ouer sawcily willing to contradict him ; who towards the end of his booke de Coena Domini expressely denieth bread & wine to be empty signes of our Sauiours body and blood , but such signes as haue the signified substances of our Sauiours body and blood conioyned with them . For n n In cap. 11. ad Cor. 1. Christ ( saith hee ) is no deceiuer to delude vs with bare figures , &c. According to which doctrine of Caluine it will be easie for my Adversarie himselfe to salue many of his owne obiections : that for example , which he maketh out of Tertullian , page 3. saying , The bread which Christ tooke and distributed to his Disciples he made his body , saying , This is my body , that is , a figure of my body . For as Caluines former words import , so also Tertullian meaneth , the sacramentall symbols not to be naked signes of Christs absent body and blood ( as the Minister would haue them ) but such signes as haue the signified substance conioyned vnto them ; as smoake is the signe of fire ; warme blood of life ; the fiery tongues ouer the Apostles , in that day of Pentecost , and the Doue ouer our Sauiour in his Baptisme , were signes of the holy Ghost present , &c. Which manner of being signes of Christs body and blood doth not exclude but suppose the Accidents of bread and wine to containe the true substances of our Sauiours body and blood in them . So is Saint Augustine to be vnderstood , where he saith , Our Lord doubted not to say , This is my body , when hee deliuered the signe of his body . And when out of Gratian my Aduersary citeth those wordes , The heauenly bread , which is the flesh of Christ , &c. is a Sacrament of Christs body visible , palpable , mortal , and pierced on the Crosse , &c. So when Theodoret and Gelasius affirme the substance and nature of bread and wine still to remaine in the Sacrament ; they meane not physicall substances and nature of bread and wine still to remaine after the consecration , but onely the accidents to remaine vnaltered in their nature , signifying and containing our Sauiours body and blood vnder them . And if hee had cited the place of Theodoret fully out , he had vtterly ouerthrowne his hereticall and fraudulent purposes of citing him . His wordes are these : Neither do the sacramentall signes after consecration depart from their nature ; for they remaine ( note how hee speaketh of the signes not of the substances of bread and wine remaining ) in their former substance figure and forme to be seene and touched as before : but they are by our vnderstanding conceiued to be as they are made ; and they are beleeued and adored according to our faith of them . So iudicious and learned is mine Aduersarie here and in other places , in the choise of his Arguments and Authorities alleadged against vs . But howsoeuer he faileth in that , he will be sure to helpe out the matter by maiming and corruptly citing such testimonies . I haue iust cause to suspect his like dealing in citing Gratians Glosse on S. Augustines wordes in the precedent page , and Caietans words cited by him page 2. But I haue not these Authors now by me to examine the places in themselues . And they are of so small esteeme with vs , especially Caietan in his dangerous and inconuenient manner of expounding Scripture with more subtilty many times then truth , as I cannot but wonder to see the Minister so to magnifie him , as if hee were the Oracle of our Church , and his ipse dixit and bare assertion so certaine a proofe as it could not be denied by vs .

IN the next place therefore , skipping ouer this Confession T. G. of Caietan , that there is nothing in the Gospell that may inforce vs to take those words of our Sauiour properly , This is my body : but that they may for ought that is in the Text be taken figuratiuely as well as those wordes , The Rock was Christ .

As also leaping quite ouer the Answer giuen to that Obiection that we are bound to beleeue our Sauiour , when hee saith , This my body : as if wee could not beleeue those wordes of his , vnlesse wee beleeue Transubstantiation : whereas their owne writers grant that the words of our Sauiour may be true , though no such thing be : He picketh out here and there some by-matter to bee nibling vpon , that hee may seeme to say somewhat , though hee keepe aloofe off from the maine matter .

And first , because hee thought hee had found out a pretty quirk and a strange crotchet , which hee was desirous to vent : He saith I make a great stirre in asking , how the Chalice may bee called the New Testament in Christs blood . I halfe suspect that some body hath sometime pus●ed him with this Question ; and he is willing therfore here to explicate it for the saluing of his owne credit , the rather hauing lighted vpon a new deuice , that hee thinketh wil easily helpe out . For I mooue no such Question , much lesse make such adoe about asking it , but say onely , We must beleeue our Sauiour as well , when he saith , This Cup is the new Testament , or This Cup is my blood ; as wee must beleeue him when he saith , This is my body : and that either may bee true , though there be no such reall conversion either of the Cup into the new Testament , or Christs blood in the one , or of the Bread into his body in the other . And his part had beene ( if he ment to keepe to the point ) to shew why the one may not be true in a figuratiue sense as wel as the other .

But let vs heare how learnedly ( though it bee beside the matter ) he explicateth our Sauiours wordes , This Cup is the New Testament in my blood . Thus forsooth ; My blood in this Chalice really contained and vnbloodily offered on the altar is that by the effusion whereof my last Will and Testament is confirmed , and the eternall inheritance purchased and applied vnto vs : and it is therefore called the New Testament in my blood . Did any man in his right wits ( thinke wee ) euer expound Scripture on this manner ? Yea but he hath a singular piece of Schollership by himselfe to iustifie his Exposition . For all learned men ( saith hee ) know that the word Testament is apt to import , not the dying mans Will onely , but the deed wherein it is contained , and the legacy conueighed by it ; which here in the Chalice is our Sauiours blood , to cleanse and inebriate deuout soules , &c. If he had beene himselfe inebriated when hee writ this , hee could not lightly haue beene more absurd . For ,

1. By this exposition of his , our Sauiour should say , This Cup , that is , this blood contained in the Chalice , is the New Testament in my blood . And so * * Not vnlike Hugo Card. on Luke 〈…〉 . Hic est calix in sanguine m●o , i. sanguis meus in calice . Christs blood shall be not in the Chalice onely , but in his blood ; would any reasonable man say , My body is in my body ; or , My blood is in my blood ? But they care not what absurd language they fasten vpon our Sauiour , so it may make for their owne turne .

2. There is the blood of Christ really contained in the Chalice , and yet this blood is vnbloodily offered . It is vnbloodily offered , and yet it is really blood ; yea there is nothing there but blood . True it is the ancient Fathers oft tearme the Eucharist o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Euseb. demonstr. l. 〈…〉 . c. 6. Chrysost. nomine in Psal. 95. & alii . an vnbloody sacrifice ; which sheweth their speeches , where they say , that p p Chrysost. vt supr. the Altar and the people are besprinckled and dyed purplered with blood , were metaphoricall and hyperbolicall : and well might they so call it , not dreaming of any such bloody stuffe in the Chalice , as these men seeme to imagine . But how there can bee an vnbloody offering , where there is much more blood then flesh ; and Christ offered vnbloodily , where men drinke nothing but meere blood ; yea if Chrysostomes speeches were to be taken properly , where all the Communicants are dyed red with blood , let any reasonable man iudge .

3. All learned men ( he saith ) of which number I hope he counteth himselfe one ) know that a Testament is apt to import , not a will onely , or a deed , but a legacie too . Vsus loquendi Magister : Use is the Lord and Master of language . q q Loquendum cum multis : sentiendum cum paucis . We should thinke ( they say ) as the best , speake as the most ; and r r Vtendum planè sermone , vt nūmo , cuius publica forma est . Quintil. institut. ● . 1. c. 10. vse , as such coine , so such speech , as is commonly currant . We ignorant and vnlearned Protestanticall Ministers are vnacquainted with this learning . But I would request him , if hee can here , as well for the sauing and saluing of of his owne credite , as for our better instruction , to produce any one learned man besides himselfe and f f For from Bellarmine also ( it seemeth ) he hath this : who to those two significations of a Testament de Euchar . l. 1. c. 11. which all acknowledge : addeth this third , pro bonis à testatore legatis . de Euchar . l. 4. c. 19. his associates , that euer so said , or euer so spake , that euer called a legacy by the name of a Testament . Such learned men ( I see ) as hee is , may say what they list ; we vnlearned must speake by rule , when we speake , least such learned men as hee is controll vs if we doe otherwise , for ignorant .

4. Marke ( I beseech you ) this learned mans Logicke , how soundly and substantially he argueth . This word Testament may well signifie either a Will or a Legacie : ergo Christs blood wherewith his last Will was confirmed , may well be tearmed the New Testament . What connexion there is betweene these two Propositions , the one produced by him to prooue the other , let any one , that is not vtterly senslesse , consider .

5. Let it be obserued , how these men that cannot endure at our hands to heare of any figure in the wordes of our Saviour , though one neuer so frequent , in signes and Sacraments especially , which both they grant these things to be ; yet themselues in the explicating of them are enforced to flie to figures , yea take liberty to themselues to coine and forge such figures , as were neuer heard of before , either in holy writ , or in prophane writer . For let him if he can , shew a legacie so tearmed in either .

Lastly , Christs blood indeed may in some sense be said to inebriate mens soules , and the s s Ex Psal. 23. 5. Hieron . ad Hedyb . q. 2. Ruffin . in Psal. 22. Ambr. in Psal. 1 ●8 . serm. 21. & alii . Ancients sometime so speake . But that which is in the Chalice , if it be taken ( which the Priest sometime may chance to doe ) ouer-largely , will ( as t t Aquin sum . part. 3 quaest. 77. art. 6. Aquinas well obserueth ) inebriate the bodie and not the soule : which I neuer yet heard that u u Albeit the whore of Babylon be said to be drunke with blood . Apoc. 17. 6. blood did , or could doe . And therefore wee haue cause to thinke , if we see the Priest drunke with it , yea we haue reason to beleeue , because we know he well may , that it is not Christs blood , but * * Mat. 26. 19. the fruit of the x x Gen. 49. 11. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Sirac . 50. 16. 1 Mac 6. 34. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Eustath . ad Iliad . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Clem. ●…ex . paed . l. 1. c. 6. Vinum sanguinem terrae dixit Androcydes apud Plin. hist. nat. l. 14. c. 5. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . H●liod . apud Fulgent . mythol . l. 〈…〉 . c. 〈…〉 . ●…um vuarum sanguis , cruentus liquor , purpura potabilis , violeum nectar . Cassod . v●r . l. 12. vine , the blood of the grape , that is in the Chalice , and produceth such effects .

§ 2. In the next place , like a man in a maze going backward and forward , as vncertaine which way to turne himselfe , Afterward ( saith hee , relating , but misrelating , as his vsuall manner is , some things spoken before ) confusedly and tediously hee endeauoureth to shew the bread and wine to be no other then bare signes and types of Christs body and blood , as Alexanders picture representeth his absent person , as Circumcision is called the Couenant , because it was a signe thereof , &c.

True it is , I say these wordes of our Sauiour , This is my body , may as well be vnderstood figuratiuely , as those speeches are where the Rocke is called Christ , and when pointing to the pictures of Caesar and Alexander ( it is the comparison that a a Aug. ad simplic . lib. 〈…〉 . quaest. 3. Augustine vseth ) we say , This is Caesar , and That is Alexander . And in Answer to the Obiection before recited ; I say , that the Cup , that is , the wine in the Cup , is said to be the New Testament , as Circumcision the Couenant , because * * Hic calix est nouum Testamentum , i calix quem vobis trado nouum Test. significat , vt Fulgent . vel nouum Test , confirmat . Haimo in 1 Cor. 11. a signe and seale of it . But that the bread and wine are no other then bare signes and types , &c. I no where say : It is his vntruth , not mine assertion . I say expressely more then so , that they are not signes onely , but seales , and signes and seales so effectuall , ( as after I shew ) that by them the things signified by them , and sealed vp in them are truely and effectually , yet spiritually , conueighed vnto those that doe faithfully receiue them . Hee dealeth herein but as Bellarmine ( whom hee imitateth ) doth with Caluine , one while charging him to make the Sacramemt * * Nihil nisi symbolum reuocans ad memoriam Christi Passionem . Bellar. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 〈…〉 . nothing but a symbole and memoriall of Christs passion , and so no better ( saith hee ) nay nor so good as a Crucifixe , and yet else-where acknowledging that hee maketh it not a signe onely , but “ “ Sigillum obsignans & confirmans promissionem verbo factam . Ibid. l. 1. c. 1. a seale also confirming and sealing vp Gods promises made in the Word .

But like a dull Scholler ( he saith ) herein I vnderstood not my Master Caluine . b b Mat. 2● . 8. Master in these matters wee acknowledge none but Christ ; whose Word alone is absolutely authenticall with vs . Caluine we reuerence as a worthy seruant of Christ . And as dull a Scholler as I am , I vnderstand him well enough , where in that booke he calleth Transubstantiation a deuice of the Diuell ; * * Eorum consecratio ab incantationis specie nihil differt . their Consecration a kinde of Incantation ; d d Transubstantiatio commentum Diaboli . the Masse an Histrionicall action ; and the Priest acting it a meere Ape . The signes indeed , saith hee , in the Eucharist are not e e Nuda signa . f Non tamen quasi pane inclusum , aut signo visibili ●ocanter affixum . &c. naked signes , but such as haue the truth of the thing conioyned d Mera fimiae ae mulatio , & actio histrionica . with them , ( that which is true of Baptisme , as well as of the Lords Supper . ) Yet not inclosed in them , nor carnally but spiritually partaked . Nor doth God delude vs with bare figures , though there bee no such reall change of the elements in the Eucharist , more then hee doth vs now in Baptisme , or did the Israelites of old , when hee fed them with g g 1 Cor. 10. 3 , 4. spirituall food and water in the Wildernesse .

§ 2. And heere againe , I cannot say cunningly , but knauishly rather , hauing falsly related my wordes , and passing ouer mine Answer to this very Obiection , wherein they challenge vs to make the Sacrament nothing but bare bread ; which by the instance of the other Sacrament of Baptisme , besides other proofes , I shew euidently to be otherwise , ( as if hee thought that like an hare by i●mping and wheeling to and fro , hee should keepe himselfe safe from being traced and taken , when either he reported grosse vntruths , or dissembled those things that it stood him vpon to giue answere vnto , if he would either make good their cause , or ouerthrow ours . ) He runneth backe to an allegation of Tertullian , and then forward againe to Theodoret , &c. and ( if his words may beare weight with vs ) he would make vs beleeue that this Doctrine of my Master Caluine , if like a dull Scholler I had sooner vnderstood him , would salue many of my Obiections , as namely , that of Tertullian ; This is my Body , that is , a figure of my body ; and the like speech of Augustine ; and what I cite out of Gratian to the like purpose , &c.

Surely this man was of that opinion that h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Polyq . hist. lib. 4. Polybius saith some are , who thinke other men cannot see them , if they winke themselues . The Question is whether our Sauiours words , This is my Bodie , may not be , or are not to be figuratiuely vnderstood ; not whether the bread and wine be bare Signes or no , which none say , but this shamelesse wretch contrary to mine expresse words affirmeth me to affirme . This being the Question I produce Tertullian , who precisely so expoundeth them , This is my Body , that is , a figure of my body . I produce Augustine , who not onely doth the like ; but rendreth a reason also why he so doth , to wit , because Signes and Sacraments are called That which Rib●ra the Iesuite also obserueth in Apoc. 14. 〈…〉 . Pervulgatum est in Scriptura , vt figura nomen habeat rei figuratae . vsuaelly by the names of those things that they signifie and represent . I produce the Glosse on Gratian , that saith ; It is called Christs body improperly , not in the truth of the thing itselfe , but in a significant mysterie : and that when it is said that it is called Christs bodie , the meaning of the words are , that it signifieth Christs bodie . All which produced to prooue that our Sauiours words are to be vnderstood figuratiuely , ( which how pregnantly they doe prooue , he cannot but see , that will not wilfully win●ke ) he can giue no answer vnto ; but saith onely they may be so●…d with that which Caluine saith that they are not bare signes ; which neither is denied , nor is any part of the Argument here in hand .

§ 4. Thus hauing leapt a page backe , he now iumpeth againe as fa●re forward ; where he lighteth againe vpon Pope Gelasius ( for so is his worke stiled in all editions of him , and so by Fulgentius he is prooued to be ; howsoeuer they would faine shift him of , because he is so expressely against their Transubstantiation , as he is also against their mangling of the Sacrament , and giuing the bread without the Cup , which i i Gelas. Papa apud Grat. de consecrat . dist. 2. c. Comperi●us . Sine grandi sacrilegio non potest prouenire he condemneth as grosse Sacriledge ) and with him vpon Theodoret , that speaketh in effect the same with him .

Theodoret and Gelasius both auerre that the Elements in the Eucharist after consecration retaine still not the same shape and forme onely , but the same Nature and Substance . Can any thing be more plaine ? or any testimony more pregnant ? Yet this nimble-headed Doctor wanteth not * And this also after Morman apud Rid ●eium de Coe● . Dom. hath Bellarmine de Euchar. l. 2. c. 27. And it is as good that that he saith else-where that the Accidents are as Substances in the Sacrament . de Euchar. l. 〈…〉 . c. 2. aneuasion for it , such as it is . For ( saith he ) Theodoret and Gelasius doe not meane thereby that the physicall nature and substance , but the Accidents ( that is , the shape and outward ●o●me , &c. ) onely remaine vnaltered . They say that they retaine still the same both shape and substance too . And this shamelesse fellow sticketh not to tell vs that they meane contrary ; that they retaine the same shape , but not the same substance . It is k k Maledicta glossa , quae corrumpit textum . a cursed glosse ( they say ) that corrupteth the Text. Yet such is the glosse that this Sophis●er giueth Gelasius and Theodoret , not corrupting onely , but directly crossing that that they say , & denying them to say that that in precise tearmes they do . The Substance , say they : Not the Substance , saith he . The Substance , say they : that is , The Accidents , saith he . Not vnlike that Glosse on Gratian , that expoundeth , We ordaine , l l Statuimus . i. abrogamus . Gloss. ad Grat. dist. 4. c. Statu●mus . Et Gloss. ad Cod. lib. 3. de Iudicus leg . Quoties . Quo magis i. quo minus . Et Alciat . parerg . l. 7. c. 13. Imperare , 〈…〉 . parere , teste Duareno disput. l. 1. c. 34. that is , We ●brogate , or disannull . If this be not a most sorry and senselesse shift , I know not what is .

But yet will you see another as grosse as the former ? By Sacramentall Signes ( saith he ) Theodoret meaneth not the Substances of Bread and Wine ; but the Accidents onely ; for either those then , or else nothing at all .

1. Here is a new distinction betweene the Elements of Bread and Wine , and the Sacramentall signes in the Eucharist . And indeed if their doctrine be sound and true , neither Bread , nor Wine , are euer , or euer were Signes of Christs body and blood in the Eucharist , though the Auncients commonly so tearme them . For before Consecration they are not ; and in Consecration they cease to be , as they say : and after Consecration they cannot be , because they haue now no being : and so consequently they neuer are .

2. Here is a strange Interpretation , and a most abfurd assertion : The Sacramentall Signes , that is , the Accidents , retaine still their Substance , that is , their Accidents . This is like Christs blood in his blood , that wee had a little before . These are abstruse riddles indeede : and it is no great maruell , if dull pates and shallow braines cannot easily conceiue them .

3. Will you see how grosse and palpable this euasion is ? Theodoret and Gelasius ( saith Bellarmine , whom hee learned some of this from ) m m Idem prorsus docent . Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 2. cap. 27. teach the very selfe same thing . Now looke what Theodoret calleth the mysticall Signes , that Gelasius tearmeth expressely Bread and Wine . By the mysticall Signes therefore in Theodoret is the Bread and Wine meant , not the Accidents ( as this corrupt and corrupting Glosser saith ) of either .

§ 4. Yea but if Theodoret had beene fully cited , all had vtterly beene ouerthrowne , and the Ministers hereticall and fraudulent purpose of citing him had beene defeated .

If lying and out-facing would serue the turne , this man would be sure euer to giue his Aduersarie the ouerthrow . Heare you but Theodoret at large ; and then iudge , if this man haue not either * * Quomodò Canus Autorem Legendae ( vt● appellant ) Aureae , ait hominem fuisse ferr●i oris & plumbei cordis . Loc. com . l. 11. c. 6. Reg. 〈…〉 . Sed & frontis aereae , vel aheneae , rectissimè addidisset . a brazen brow , or a leaden braine , or both .

The worke of Theodoret is a Dialogue , wherein hee bringeth in disputing an Orthodoxe Diuine against an Hereticke , that held that n n Post resurrectionem amisit humanitas naturam suam ; & accepit caro mutationem in naturam diuinitatis . after Christs resurrection his Hemanitie lost it owne nature , and his flesh was turned into his Deitie ; in the same manner as these Transubstantiators now say that the Bread in the Euchorist looseth it owne nature , and is really changed into Christs naturall body . In debating of this Question they light vpon the Eucharist , and fall to dispute how the Bread is there said to bee Christs body , and what change is wrought on it . The Hereticke would haue it changed to fit his turne , as our Papists now hold . The Orthodoxe Diuine saith it is no more turned into Christs body , then Christs body is now turned in heauen into his Deitie . But you shall haue them both verbatim in their owne words .

Orthodox .

o o Theodoret. Dialog. 2. qui & 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . You may if you will in steed of Orthodoxe and Heretike put Protestant and Papist . Tell me ; the mysticall Signes which are offred God by Gods Priests , what say you are they Signes of ?

Heretike .

Of the Lords Body and Blood .

Orthodox .

Of a body that is truly ? or of one that is not truly ?

Heretike .

Of one that is truly .

Orthodox .

Very well . For of the Image there must needs be some Originall . For Painters imitate nature ; and draw Images of such things as are seene .

Heret .

True .

Orthodox .

* * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. If then the diuine mysteries represent that that is truly a body , then the Lords body is a true body still , not changed into the Nature of the Deity , but filled with Diuine glorie .

Heret .

You haue in good time made mention of the diuine Mysterie , for euen thereby will I shew you that the Body of our Lord is turned into another Nature . Answer you therefore my Question .

Orthodox .

I will .

Heretike .

What call you the gift that is offred before the Priests Inuocation ?

Orthodox .

I may not tell openly , because it may bee there be some here that are not yet initiated .

Heretike .

Answere then aenigmatically .

Orthodox .

The foode that is made of certaine graine .

Heret .

The other Signe , how call you it ?

Orthodox .

By that common name that signifieth some kinde of drinke .

Heret .

But after sanctification how doe you call them ?

Orthodox .

The body of Christ , and the blood of Christ .

Heret .

And doe you beleeue that you are made partaeker of Christs body and blood ?

Orthodox .

I doe beleeue so .

Heret .

As then the Signes of the Lords body and blood are one thing before the Priests prayer ; but after it are changed and become another : So the Lords body also after his Assumption is changed into a diuine Substance .

Orthodox .

You are taken now in a net of your owne weauing . * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . For the Mysticall Signes doe not after Sanctification depart from their owne Nature . For they remaine still in their former Substance , and figure and forme ; and may be seene and touched as before : But they are vnderstood to be that which they are made ; and they are beleeued and adored ( or “ “ Quomodo Tertull. adv. Hermog. Adoro plenitudmem Scripturarum . Et Aug. Ep. 164 : Baptismum Christi vbique veneramur . reuerenced ) as being those things that they are beleeued to be . Compare then the Image with the Originall , and you shall see the Similitude . For it is meete that the Figure bee like to the Truth . For * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . that Body hath indeede its former forme , and figure , and circumscription , and to speake in a word , bodily Substance . But since the Resurrection it is become immortall , and such as no corruption or destruction can befall ; and it is vouchsafed to sit at Gods right-hand ; and is worshipped of euery creature , as being called the Lords naturall Bodie .

Heretike .

Yea but the mysticall Signe changeth his former Name . For it is not any more called as it was before , but it is called a Body . In like manner therefore should the Truth be called God and not a Body .

Orthodox .

Me thinkes you are very ignorant . For it is not onely called a Body , but it is called , p p Ioh. 6. 35. Bread of Life . So the Lord himselfe called it . And moreouer the Body it selfe we call a diuine Body , and a quickning Body , and the Lords Body : and teach that it is not the common Body of any man , but the Body of our Lord Iesus Christ , who is God and Man . For q q Heb. 13. 8. Iesus Christ is yesterday and to day the same , and for euer .

Will you heare more yet of Theodoret ? In his first Dialogue ; out of which I cite also one or two Sentences , which this scambling Answerer hath not list ( it seemeth ) to take notice of ; he bringeth in the same Parties thus discoursing together .

Orthodox .

r r Theodoret Dialog. 1. qui & 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Do you not know that the Lord called himselfe a Vine ?

Heretike .

I know that he said , s s Ioh. 15. 1. I am the true Vine .

Orthodox .

And how call you the juice of the fruite of the Vine ?

Heretike .

Wine .

Orthodox .

When the souldiers opened Christs side with a speare , what saith the Euangelist did then issue on t ?

Heretike .

t t Ioh. 19. 34. Water and Blood .

Orthodox .

The Patriarch Iacob then calleth Christs blood the blood of the Grape . For if Christ be called a Vine , and the frnite of the Vine ; and streames of blood and water issuing out of Christs side trickled downe his whole Body ; he is fitly u u Gen. 49. 11. Hinc Tertull. contr. Marc. l. 4. Ita & ●unc sanguinem suum in vino consecrauit , qui tunc vinum in sangine figurauit . said by him to wash his coate in wine , and his raiment in the blood of the Grape . For as we call the mysticall fruite of the Vine after sanctification the Lords blood ; so doth he call the blood of the true Vine , the blood of the Grape .

Heretike .

That which was propounded hath both mystically and cleerely beene shewen .

Orthodox .

Though the things said be sufficient ; yet I will adde another proofe .

Heretike .

You shall doe me a pleasure , because the more profit in so doing .

Orthodox .

Doe you not know that God called his body Bread ?

Heretike .

I know it .

Orthodox .

And else-where againe hee called his Flesh wheate .

Heretike .

I know that too . For , x x Ioh. 12. 24. vnlesse the wheate corne , saith he , fall into the ground , &c.

Orthodox .

Now in the deliuery of the Sacraments * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . he called Bread his Body ; and that which is poured into and mixt in the Cup , Blood .

Heretike .

He did so call them .

Orthodox .

Yea but “ “ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . that which by nature is his Body is also iustly tearmed his Body ; and in like manner his Blood .

Heretike .

It is acknowledged .

Orthodox .

Our Sauiour indeede , '' '' 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . hee changed the Names , and imposed that Name on his Body that was the Name of the Symbole and Signe of it : and on the Symbole or Signe he imposed that Name , that is the Name of his Body . And so hauing named himselfe a Uine , he called that that was a signe Blood .

Heretike .

It is true that you say : But why did he thus change the Names ?

Orthodox .

Because his will was , that those that are partakers of those diuine Mysteries , should not attend the nature of the things that they see ; but for the change of the Names beleeue the change that by grace is wrought . For hee that y Ioh. 6. 32 , 33 , 35. called that that by Nature is his Body , wheate and bread , and againe , named himselfe a Vine ; * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . he honoured the Symboles and Signes that we see with the appellation of his Body and Blood , not changing Nature , but to Nature adding Grace .

And at length , the Orthodoxe Diuine thus concludeth : * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . It is cleere that that holy Foode is a Symbole and a Signe of Christs body and blood , the name whereof it beareth . For our Lord when he had taken the Symbole or Signe , said not , This is my Deitie ; But , z z Matth. 26. 26 , 28. This is my Bodie ; and againe , This is my Blood : and else where , * * Ioh. 6. 51. The bread that I will giue , is my Flesh that I will giue for the life of the world .

You haue heard Theodoret at large . It remaineth now to consider how he ouerthroweth that which I produce him for , to wit , that the bread & wine in the Sacrament remaine for substance still the same ; and that the Bread is called Christs body figuratiuely ; as his body is else-where called Bread ; and the wine his blood figuratiuely , as himselfe is tearmed a Vine : Or to consider rather , if you please ( because that any one at the first sight may see ) how fitly this mans explication of Theodoret agreeth with Theodorets owne words .

By Sacramentall Signes ( saith he ) Theodoret meaneth not the Substance of Bread and Wine .

1. He vnderstandeth by the mysticall Signes that that is offered to God by Gods Priests . And doth the Priest then offer nothing to God but accidents onely ? Indeed they tell vs that a a Gen. 14. 18. Quo loco tamen vulg. versio , non , Obtulit , sed , Protulit . Et Card. Caietan . in Gen. Nihil scribitur hîc de sacrificio seu de oblatione , sed de prolatione , qua● Iosephus dicit factam ad reficiendum victores . Melchisedech offred bread and wine ; and that their Priests are b b Vide Bellar. de missa . l. 〈…〉 . c. 24. & 25. & Rhemens . in Heb. 7. 12 , 17. Priests after the order of Melchisedech , and so c c Rhemens . ibid. offer such offerings as he did . And the auncient Fathers , alluding to that story by them allegorised , say , d d Offertur sub sacerdote Christo quod protulit Melchisedech . Aug. de ciuit . Dei l. 17. c. 17. i. panes & vinum : vt Theodoret. in Psal. 109. Vide & Clem. Strom. l. 4. Tertull. adv. Iudaeos . Chrysost. in Gen. hom. 34. &c. that Bread and Wine are offred to God in the Eucaarist . But in the Popish Masse according to their opinion of it , no such thing can be offred , because no such thing is there present .

2. More particularly explaining himselfe he saith that by the one signe he meaneth the food that of certaine graine is made , and by the other the fruite of the Vine . And is there any such foode or fruit at all that is no physicall substance , or that consisteth of e e Accidentia tamen mera nutrire corpora humana ; & Species tantumdem facere quantum alias substantias , asserunt Patres Inquisitores in Indic . Belg. expurg . lit . B. Nec id mirum esse debet : cum Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 2. non accidentium sed substantiae rationem velit habere , vti sunt in Sacramento . meere accidents ? He deserueth to be fed , till he starue , with such food , that would feede or infect rather mens soules with such draffy stuffe as this is . Yea in precise tearmes he saith , that Christ called Bread ( not the accidents of bread ) his Body , as he called his Body else-where bread .

3. The very maine drift and scope euidently manifesteth his meaning ; which is to shew that the Lords Body , though it be not a common body , but hath glorious endowments , yet remaineth a true body still ; as the Sacramentall bread though it be not common bread , yet retaineth still it former nature and substance , and is true bread still .

4. If wee aske Theodoret himselfe what hee meaneth here by Substance ; and whether hee take the word in such sense as it is vsually taken ; hee telleth vs himselfe a little before he entreth into this discourse , that f f 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Corpus ergò substantia vocandum : Accidentia , non substantias , nominate conuenit , quae corpori & accidunt & recedunt . Theodoret , dialog. 2. by Substance he vnderstandeth a body ; and by Accidents ( which hee opposeth to Substance ) such things as betide bodies and yet may depart from them . And they may as well say , that by Substance Theodoret meant Accidents , when hee saith that Christs body retaineth still the same bodily substance ; as they may say hee so meaneth , when of the bread , which hee compareth therewith , hee saith the very same . But what take I so much paines g g Super vacuis laborat impendiis qui solem certat facibus adiuuare . Anaclet , apud Grat. c. 6. q. 1. In rebus vero apertis argumentari tam sit stultum , quam in clarissimum Solem mortale Iumen inferre . Quintil. institut. l. 5. c. 12. to set vp a light when the Sun shines ? ( the proofe is so plaine , and his meaning so perspicuous , that it may seem h h Ipsius solis radio putes scriptum ; ita claret . Tertul. de resurr. car . written , as Tertullian speaketh , with a beame of the Sunne ) saue to lay open a little this mans shamelesse carriage and senslesse shifts , who yet with a confident face telleth his Reader , that his Aduersarie both heere and else-where sheweth how learned and iudicious hee is in the choice of his authorities ; as if this allegation made wholly for them and against vs , were it read all out , or were nothing pertinent ( at least ) to the purpose .

§ 5. In conclusion , for Gratians Glosse , acknowledging the truth by vs maintained that our Sauiours wordes are figuratiuely to bee vnderstood ; and Cardinall Caietan confessing ; that they may well beare that sense : hauing nothing ( and that is maruell , for he dare say any thing ) to except against ; either hee excuseth himselfe that hee hath not the bookes by him , as if they were not commonly in Pauls Church-yard to be had , if hee had listed to looke after them . A bad excuse ( as we say ) is better then none at all with him .

Onely hee addeth that they are both of small account with them ; Caietan especially : In regard whereof hee wondereth that I should so much magnifie him , as if he were the Oracle of their Church , &c.

For the former , none can be ignorant , what Authority among their Canonists the Glosses haue : and in the place cited the rather , because hee buildeth vpon Augustines owne wordes . For the latter , I cite him onely by the name of Cardinall Caietan ( nor had they many Cardinals in his time for learning his equals ) one of our Aduersaries : that is all my magnifying of him . But mine Adversaries lips must need ouer-runne . Yet of what repute and esteeme Caietan was for both kinds of learning , as well Philosophy as Diuinity ; to omit the titles commonly giuen him in the Inscriptions of his workes by those that set out some of them , stiling him i i Professor Theologiae eminentissimus . the most eminent Doctour and professor of diuinity ; his Commentaries on Thomas ( whence this testimony is taken ) k k Luculentisma & planè diuina . most luculent and euen diuine Commentaries ; his smaller Treatises l l Aurea opuscula . golden workes ; I may referre you to the workes themselues , so many , so learned , so elaborate ; and to the storie of his life written by Antonius Fonseca , and set out with some of them . It is apparent , and it is enough , that a prime Cardinall of the Sea of Rome confesseth ingenuously , that the wordes of our Sauiour , This is my body , may be siguratiuely taken for ought in the text , were it not that their Church , * * Nam Papa virtualiter est tota Ecclesia . Herv . de potest Papae . Vide Bellar. de Concil. & Eccles. l. 1. c. 18. Sed & Georg. Dounam Derens. Ep. de Papa Antichrist . l. 4. c. 6. that is , the Pope , will haue them otherwise expounded .

Diuision 5.

HE concludeth his first Discourse thus , page 5. Thus they ; and thus we : and yet neither doe they , nor N. P. wee therefore make the Sacrament of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine . Which Corollarium of his plainely so delivered may make any man see the Protestanticall Communion truely anathomized and plainely shewed to haue nothing holy , heauenly and diuinely ( as the Fathers speake ) therein contained , but bare bread and wine , which any man may eate when and where hee pleaseth , remembring withall our Sauiours passion , Neuer Caietan , neuer Bellarmine , neuer Gratian , neuer Father or other Catholique Diuine of our Church beleeued or taught this grosse and sacrilegious doctrine as my Aduersarie in his wordes , They , and Wee , falsely pretendeth . Neither doth Caluine or any other noted Diuine of their Church speake at least , whatsoeuer they thinke , so poorely and grossely of this Sacrament ; but they endeauour with Epithets and wordes to couer the bready nakednesse thereof , making it seeme mysterious at least , if not miraculous . Blessed Saint Dennis great Scholler of Saint Paul himselfe , I will heere presume to aske thee . If the Sacrament of the Altar bee but bare bread and wine , why doest thou so absurdly speake and blasphemously praey vnto it , in this manner ? m m S. Dennis Hierch . Eccles. cap. 3. part. 3. O most diuine and holy Sacrament , vouchsafe to open those signifying signes , and appeare perspicuously vnto vs ; and replenish the spirituall eyes of our soule with the singular and cleere splendor of thy light , &c. Why likewise , thou holy Martyr and great Doctor of Christs Church Saint Itaeneus , liuing so neere the Apostles times , as to know great Polycarpus S. Iohns disciple , and deeply seene in the knowledge of heauenly verities , doest thou deny this bread after consecration to bee any more accounted common bread , but the Eucharist consisting of two things , heauenly and earthly ; that being receiued into our bodies they may bee no more corruptible , hauing the hope of resurrection ? If no more then bare bread and wine be in this Communion , as my Aduersarie affirmeth , why did yee , noble Confessors of the first Nicene Councell will vs , n n Patres in votis primi Nicen. Con● . in this diuine table not to regard onely bread and wine proposed , but to eleuate our minde by faith , and behold on this table the Lambe of God taking away the sinnes of the world by Priests vnbloodily sacrificed ; and receiuing his body and blood to beleeue them to bee symboles and pledges of our resurrection ? &c. O holy Ephrem renowned so for thy great learning and singular sanctitie , as Saint Ierome testifieth thy writings to haue beene read in the Church after the holy Scriptures , why doest thou will vs not to search after these inscrutable mysteries , &c. but to receiue with a full assurance of faith the immaculate body of the Lord , and the Lambe himselfe entirely ? adding those wordes which cannot agree to such a communion of bare bread and wine as this Minister teacheth ; The mysteries of Christ are an immortall fire : search them not curiously , least in the search thou become burned , &c. telling vs that this Sacrament doth exceed all admiration and speech , which Christ our Sauiour the onely begotten Sonne of God hath instituted for vs . Finally why doe other ancient ●nd chiefe Fathers of the Greeke and Latine Church call the consecrated bread and wine on the Altar dreadfull mysteries , the food of life and immortality , hidden Manna , and infinitely excelling it , a heauenly banquet , the bread of Angels humbly present while it is offered , and deuoutly adoring it , &c. If there bee no more but bare bread and wine therein receiued in memorie of our Sauiours passion ; as my Aduersarie affirmeth of his Protestanticall Sacrament .

THe next Diuisi●● hee maketh entrance into with a T. G. grosse and shamelesse deprauation ; and thereupon prosecuteth it to the end with an impertinent digression .

Hauing cited the forenamed Testimenies of Theodoret and Gelasius in mine Answer to that Obiection brought commonly against vs , as if by a deniall of such a reall presence as Papists maintaine wee should make the Sacrament to be nothing but bare bread ; I conclude both mine Answer and the Allegation of those two Authors in these wordes ; Thus they , ( to wit Gelasius and Theodoret ) and thus we : and yet neither doe they nor we therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood NOthing but bare bread and wine . Now this shamelesse wretch wanting matter to be dealing with , turneth me NOthing into ANY thing ( a man able indeed with his shamelesse & senselesse shifts to picke any thing out of nothing ) and relateth my wordes in this manner to a cleane contrary sense ; Thus they ; and thus we : and yet neither doe they , nor wee therefore make the Sacraments of Christs body and blood ANY thing but bare bread and wine .

Had either I or my Transcriber , for the truth is , i i Yet I remember now that the Marginall notes were of mine owne writing ; which peraduenture occasioned his gird at mine hand . it was not mine owne hand-writing that hee had : I write a worse hand I confesse , then he is aware of , that accounteth that so bad an one : If either I or hee , I say , had slipt heere with the pen , as I suspected hee might haue done , till I saw the copie againe that this Answerer had ; yet the whole tenour of my speech , wherein I shew that the bread and wine in the Eucharist are no more bare bread or bare wine , then the water vsed in the Sacrament of Baptisme is bare water , would sufficiently haue shewed my meaning . But when the copie that was deliuered him , remaining in the custodie of that Noble Personage for whom at first it was written , is found apparantly to haue the wordes in the very same manner as I haue before cited them , I cannot deuise k k Dic aliquem , dic , Quinti●●ane , colorem . Iuven. sat , 6. what colour this audacious wretch can bring to salue his owne credite with , and excuse his corrupt carriage . It argueth not a bad , but a desperate cause , that without such senselesse and shamelesse shifts cannot bee vpheld . And I beseech your Ladiship well to consider , what credite is to be giuen to these men alleadging Authors , ( Fathers , Councels , &c. ) which they know you cannot your selfe peruse and examine , when they dare thus palpably falsifie a writing that you haue in your owne hands , and may haue recourse to when you will .

§ 2. Now hauing thus laid a lewd and loud vntruth for the ground of his ensuing Discourse :

1. Hee falleth into an Inuectiue against our Protestanticall Communion , as acknowledged by me to haue nothing holy , heauenly and diuinely ( for so it pleaseth him to speak ) therein contained , but bare bread and wine , &c. adding withall , that neuer C●ietan , neuer Bellarmine , neuer Gratian , neuer Father or other Catholique Diuine beleeued or taught this sacrilegious doctrine ( a lye he meaneth , of his owne forging ) as my Aduersarie in these wordes , They , and wee , falsly pretendeth .

In which wordes first ( for hee cannot forbeare f●lsifying for his life , no not then and there where he chargeth others with falshood ) he intimateth that in those words , Thus they ; I should haue reference to Caietan , Bellarmine , and Gratian : whereas my wordes euidently point at Gelasius and Theodoret , whose owne wordes in precise tearmes I had next before cited .

2. He chargeth me falsely to say that of the Eucharish , that neither I , nor any of our Diuines euer said : yea which being by way of Obiection before produced , I not onely disauow and disprooue , approouing freely and at large proouing the contrary ; but in this place in plaine tearmes conclude the direct contrary vnto in the very wordes by him fowly falfified .

3. Hee runneth out ( to giue vs some taste of his rowling Rhetoricke as well as his loose Logicke ) into a solemn inuocation of his forged S. Dionyse , together with some of the Ancients , ( as if hee were raising of Spirits with some magicall inchantment , to fight with a shadow , and to skirmish with a man of straw of his owne making ) to testifie in that against vs that hee would faine put vpon vs , but none of vs ( by his owne confession ) euer said or doe say .

Thus hee hath nibled here and there , cauilled at by-matters , coined lies , forged and faced ; but giuen no direct Answer to the Argument , whereunto hee should haue answered , and whereby it was prooued that these wordes of our Sauiour , This my body , may well beare a figuratiue sense ; so expounded by the Ancient Fathers , and confessed by their owne writers ; not so much as attempted to prooue the contrary thereunto .

§ 3. Now howsoeuer I might very well let passe , as impertinent , those citations and sayings of the Authors here summoned to giue in either testimony or sentence against that that none of vs auoweth , and which therfore , though all , that either they doe say , or hee would haue them say , were true , did no way crosse vs , or once touch vs in ought that is heerein affirmed of vs ; and I had sometime therefore determined wholy to passe by them , for feare of ouercharging this Discourse : yet considering that some weake ones peraduenture may stumble at some passages in them , especially as they are vnfaithfully by this alleadger of them here translated : I haue thought good now ere wee part with them , to examinine what they say , that may seeme to make in any sort not against that heere charged on vs , which we vtterly deny , but against that which of this Sacrament we hold otherwise .

The first testimony is S. Dennis his , shewed before to be but a counterfeit by the confession euen of Popish writers themselues . But whosoeuer hee were ( for l l Illum esse de quo in Actis fit mentio , soli , in hac luce literarum , imperiti , & cum linguae Graecae , tum antiquitatis Ecclesiasticae penitus rudes audent affirmare . Casaub , ad Baron . annal. exerc. 16. ss. 43. certaine enough it is that he was not the party whose name hee beareth , but one of a farre later time , vnknowne vtterly to Athanasius , Eusebius , and Ierome , though curious searchers and enquirers after the workes of those that were before them , m m Scripta Dionys●i ante tempora B. Georgij non videntur fuisse cog●ita mundo Bellarm. in Indic . Scrip. MS. apud Rob. Cocum in Cens. Patr. Qui & u●dendus de Dionysio isto . Et Anastasius Biblioth , ad Carol , Reg. apud Andr. Riuet . in specim . Critit . l. 1. c. 9. nor knowne commonly to the world before Gregories dayes , as Bellarmine also himselfe acknowledgeth ) hee maketh little for them in this point , either in that that here is alleadged , or in ought else that Bellarmine can fish or fetch out of him . His wordes in the place heere cited are these and no more : O most diuine and holy Mysterie , symbolically discouering those n n 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . enigmaticall ensoldments , bee declared brightly vnto vs , and replenish our intellectuall eye sights with o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . single ( or immixt ) and vnenueloped light . These ( I say ) his wordes are as neere as I can expresse them : Which I so doe to giue you a taste of this Dennis his stile , writing rather like p p Dithyrambos concinit . Ma●sil . Fi●in . Genus dicendi cothurno Tragi●o vel Dithyrambicis ampullis non multum distat . Casaub. vbi sub . a Dithyrawhicall Poet ( the boldest sort of them ) then like a sober and sound Diuine ; as q q 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Col. 2. 18. De his rebus magno supercilio pronuncians , de quibus Paulus è coelo tertio reuersus non ausus est hiscere . Eras. de ver. Theol. taking vpon him to determine the degrees , orders , and offices of the Angels in heanen , which other r r Iren. cont . Valent . l. 2. c. 55. Cyril . nomi . catech. mystag . 2. Aug. enchit . c. 58. De Athanasio vide Sixt. sen. biblioth l. 3. de Greg. & Bern. Eckium hom. 4. de Michael . & Riber in Heb. c. 1. the Ancients durst not doe ; so discoursing of them and such other matters as hee entreateth of in an affected swelling and abstruse straine , and coining a world of strange wordes and phrases no where else to bee found . And no more they are then these ; which I adde , because to the end of his allegation this fellow putteth an , &c. as if the Author had in that place vsed some longer discourse of that kinde . Nor is the sp●●ch ( as he would haue it ) a prayer ; but a meere prosopopoei● , or rhetoricall compellation , directed not to the Elements alone , but to the Eucharist , or the Lords Supper ( if with the s s 〈…〉 Cor. 11. 20. vide Casaub. ad Baron . exer. 16. sect. 32. Apostle t t Caluinistae sinè scripturae autoritate , sine veterum exemplo , si●e ratione , sine iudici● coenam vocant . Maldonat . in Math. c. 26. they will giue vs leaue at least so to tearme it ) the whole Mysterie , or mysterious rite , as u u 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the word there vsed properly importeth . Which Pachymeres the Greeke paraphraser of this Dennis well paralleleth with another of Gregorie Nazianzenes of the same nature ; ( and as well might Bellarmine or this Defendant haue alleadged the one as the other . ) Who in his Easter-day Sermon turning his speech to the Festiuity it selfe , and then from it to Christ himselfe , the substance of it , as Nicetas also well obserueth ; x O great and holy Passeouer ( saith he ) the purgation of the whole world . y y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . For I will speake to thee as t● some liuing thing . O word of God , and light , and life , and wisedome , and might . For I take delight in reckoning vp all thy titles . Haue thou this Oration as well●g●atul●torie as supplicatorie , and so forth . And Nicet as thereupon ; Those * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 wordes , O Pasch or Passeouer , z z Ad festum ipsum perinde ac vita praeditum refert . he speakes or referreth to the Feast it selfe . But those , O word of God , and so forward , by way of acclamation hee directeth to Christ the spirituall Passeouer . Nor is it vnlike to the speech that Ambr. makes * Ad Christum spi●itale Pascha per acclamationem dirigit . in generall to the Element of water , though with more special allusion and application to the water of Baptisme : f f O qua , quae Sacramentum Christi esse mesuisti : quae omnia lauas , nec lauaris . Ambr. in Lue. l. 10. c. 22. O water that hast merited ( that is , in the vsuall language of those Auncieuts , too much abused by our Aduersaries , hast beene vouchsa●ed the grace ) to be a Sacrament of Christ : that washest all , vnwasht of any . Thou bringest in the first ; thou closest vp the last Mysteries . The beginning is from thee ; and the end in thee : or rather thou makest vs to bee without end . And so he goeth on in a long speech to the Element , which yet no wise man will say that he had any purpose there to pray vnto . Nor any more had this Dennis g Tu incipis prima , tu comples perfecta mysteria . A te principium ; in te finis . vel potius tu facis vt finem nesciamus , &c when he discoursed thus to the Eucharist ; the rather to be admitted and so conceiued in him , considering his Poeticall and aenigmaticall vaine and manner of discourse . I might well put them in minde of that Hymne of theirs , wherein they thus if not inuocate , at least parley with the Crosse :

h h O aue , Crux , spes vnica : Hoc passionis tempore , Auge piis iustitiam ; Reisque dona veniam . All h●ile , O Crosse , our onely Hope ; This Passion time [ thy power set ope : ] In righteous Persons grace encrease : To sinfull soules their sinnes release .

Which howsoeuer they would faine salue with such a prosopopoeia i i Gabr. Vasquez de Adorat . l. 2. c. 4. dis. 3. num. 430. & Bellar. de cult. Sanct. l. 2. c. 24. some of them ; yet k k Thom. Aq. summ par. 3. quae. 25. art. 4. Crux adoratur adoratione latriae . Aquinas ingenuously confesseth that therein they giue diuine worship to the woodden Crosse : or of the like speeches that in a forme both of praise , and praier , they vse to l l Salue sancta facies nostri Seruatoris , Impressa panniculo niuei candoris , Dataque Veronicae signum ob amoris : Nos ab omni macula purga vitiorum : Atque nos consortio iunge beatorum , &c. Oratio à loanne Pp. 22. instituta . Antidot . animae . the Veronicke or the print of Christs face in a towel ; and m m O veneranda Zona , fac nos haeredes aeternae & beatae vitae , &c. Oratio ab Euthymio composita . to our Ladies girdle , and othèr the like , wherein they craue ●o lesse of them , beside sundry other graces , then to be clensed from all sinne , and to attaine eternall happinesse : in so much that one of their writers relating the latter of them breaketh out into these words ; n n O quam magna & mira petit a veneranda Zona . Lipoman . O how many , and how marueilous things are requested of that holy girdle ! To which I might well adioyne also , what Aquinas saith , that o o Crucem alloquimur & deprecamur quasi ipsum crucifixum . Thom. vbi sup. they speake & pray to the Crosse as to Christ crucified himself : and what Bellarmine telleth vs that their p p Sic concionatores alloquuntur imaginem crucifixi , &c. Bellar de imagin . c. 23. Priests and Friers in the pulpit are wont to say to the woodden Crucifix , q q Tu nos redemisti , &c. Thou hast redeemed vs , and reconciled vs to God the Father . Which he thus salueth , that this they say to it , not as it is a piece of wood , nor as it is an image neither , but as it supplyeth the place of him whom it representeth , that is , r r Dicuntur Christo , cuius imago vicem gerit . they say it to Christ , whose Deputie & vicegerent the Image there is . And yet from all this ( though too too bad and grosse indeed , yea absurd and blasphemous by this mans owne grant ) will no man inferre , that they hold either that girdle to be the Uirgin Mary , or either the woodden Crosse , or the stained towel , or the carued Crucifix to be Christ himselfe . So that though that of Dennis were a prayer indeede , which yet plaine it is that it is not , yet were it not , by their owne grounds and graunts , sufficient to prooue that he held the Sacrament therefore to be Christ himselfe . I adde onely what s s Ex Aug. de ciuit lib. 18. c. 28. Bed . in 1. Cor. 10. from Augustine venerable Bede hath , that holy t t Omnia significantia videntur quodammodo earum rerum quas significant sustinere personas . Signes not onely are called by the names , but doe in some sort sustaine the persons also of those things that they represent . Which as being well considered it may helpe to cleere many speeches of the Ancients wherin they speak those things of the sacred Elements , which cannot be vnderstood but of the things by them signified , so it occasioned them to take the more libertie to themselues for such Rhetoricall compellations , as before haue bin spoken of . Yea , but else-where ( may some say , ) and that but a little after , he turneth himselfe to the Host , which is said there to be his better or aboue him , and therefore u u At certè purus panis non supra nos est . Bellarm. de Euch. l. 2. c. 3. not bare bread ; excusing himselfe to it , that he presumeth to deale with it . Indeede so it pleaseth x x Bellarm. Ibid. Bellarmine to cite him as if hee had said ; y y Pontifex quod hostiam salutarem quae supra ipsum est litet , &c. The high Priest , that he sacrificeth the sauing Host , that is aboue him , z z Se excusat ad ipsum exclamans , &c. excuseth himselfe to him , or to it , crying out ; Thou hast said , Doe this ; &c. But let Dennis speake in his owne language , or but a a Perionii versio à Lansselio Soc. Ies. subornata & suppleta . as their owne writers translate him , and both Bellarmines mis-alleadging of him will soone be discouered , and the force of his reason drawne from thence vtterly dissolued . That which he saith is word for word thus ; b b Dionys. Hierarch Eccles cap. 3. part. 3. The diuine Hierarch standing at the diuine Altar , c c 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . celebrateth ( that is , praiseth and extolleth ) Christs holy diuine workes out of his most diuine care of vs for our saluation by the goodwill of his Father in the Holy Ghost by him consummated . Which hauing celebrated , and by contemplation with intellectuall eyes taken a venerable and spirituall view of them , he passeth vnto d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Sacrificium quod signis continetur . Lauss . the symbolicall celebration ( or , holy administration ) of them , and that e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . according to diuine Tradition : Wherefore religiously and hierarchically ( that is , as becommeth an Hierarch , or a Bishop ) after the holy celebration ( or , f f 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Diuinorum operum laudes . solemne praise ) of those diuine workes , g g 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . De sacrificio quod ipsius dignitatem superat se purgat . Laus . he maketh an Apologie for himselfe in regard of that boly seruice ( or , sacrifice , as they translate it , though * * It is vsed by this Author oft . speaking of Baptism . chap. 2. the word be more generall ) that is to worthy for him to deale with , crying out to him , ( to whom but to Christ Iesus before mentioned ? ) Thou hast said , Doe this in remembrance of me . And then h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . &c. hauing requested that he may be vouchsafed the grace of performing this holy and diuine seruice in holy manner , and that those that are to communicate may religiously partake in it , hee performeth the most diuine seruice , &c. For vncouering i i 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the bread that was hitherto couered and vndiuided , and diuiding it into many pieces , and k k 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . distributing to them all the one onely Cup , be doth symbolically , further their vnitie , l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . thereby performing his most holy seruice . Now where is there here any mention of an Host ? or affirming that Host to be aboue him or better then himselfe ? or making any speech at all to it ? And yet if it were Christ , to whom should he direct his speech more fitly then to it ? what should he speake to him as sited else-where , when hee hath him corporally there present ? The rather if , as they tell vs , * * Corpus Christi , siue Christus , ibi videt & audit , quamuis non loquitur , ne deprehendatur . Bonauent. in sent. I. 4. dist. 10. quaest. 2. he seeth there what we doe , and heareth what we say , though he say nothing himselfe , because he would not be discouered . Yea but he acknowledgeth the holy seruice then and there to be performed , to be too worthy for him to deale with ? And doth not the Apostle say as much of the ministery of the word ; that m m 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; 2. Cor. 2. 16. no man is sufficient , or n n 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . i. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . vt Math. 3. 11 & 8. 8. Luke 3. 17. & 7. 6. worthy enough for such a worke ? Or may not the same truly be said of the Sacrament of Baptisme , and the administration of it ? There is nothing here then in either allegation that may at all helpe to establish the Popish Transubstantiation . And yet this is all , that out of this Dennis Bellarmine is able to produce . Who though indeede otherwise not free from sundry fantasticall conceipts , yet is so farre from enclining to that prodigious fancy , that the whole tenure of his discourse concerning that Sacrament ( as the auncient Scholiast also hath well obserued on him ) runneth cleane another way . He calleth the Eucharist , ( as you haue heard ) o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . a symbolicall seruice ; and p p 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . a distribution of bread and a Cup : and the bread and the Cup vsed in it , q q 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . symboles or signes , and r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . images , or s s 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . pictures , and t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . paternes u u 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . resembling the truth of their principals , to which he doth also there oppose them . And not we , but the Monke Maximus aunciently expounding him , x x 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Maxim . Schol. in Hierarch . Eccles. c. 3. Marke you ( saith he ) how still he calleth this diuine seruice a Symbolicall seruice ; that is , y y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . a seruice ( saith he ) consisting of Symboles or Signes ; and z z 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Maxim. ibid. the holy gifts themselues signes or symboles of the true things aboue . And againe , * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ibid. He calleth them pictures and images of true things vnseene . And if we aske him what that word Symbole or Signe signifieth ; a a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Idem in interpret . nom . A Symbole or Signe ( saith he ) is a thing sensible taken for something intelligible , as bread and wine for the spirituall and diuine foode and refection , and the like . Yea hereupon he inferreth that b b 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Idem in schol. because these things are Symboles and Signes , they are not therefore the truth it selfe . For c c 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Idem in cap 4. the image ( saith he else-where , and that from Dennis himselfe too ) albeit it haue neuer so neere a resemblance , yet in substance differeth from that whereof it is a resemblance . d d Dionys. eccles. hierar . c. 4 The thing indeede it selfe ( saith this Dennis ) that by an exact image or picture is represented , is , if we may so say , thereby e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . doubled , while f f 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the truth is shewed in the type , and g g 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the precedent or principall in the picture or patterne ; but yet there is for all that a diuersitie of substance in either .

From this Dennis his owne grounds therefore , we may wel reason and conclude thus against the Popish doctrine which they would haue him to vphold . No picture is the same in substance with that whose picture it is : But the bread and wine in the Eucharist are pictures and images ( so he tearmeth them ) of the spirituall foode , to wit , the body and blood of Christ . They are not therefore the same in substance with it . Or as Maximus directeth vs ; No type is the Truth : * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Maxim in lib de diuin. nomin. c. 4. for it were then no type : But these 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . are Types : and consequently other then the Truth .

The second allegation is out of Irenaeus : 1. Irenaeus ( saith he ) denieth the bread after consecration to be any more accounted common bread , but 2. The Eucharist , consisting of two things , heauenly and earthly , that being receiued into our bodies they may be no more corruptible , hauing the hope of resurrection . These words indeede are found the most of them in Irenaeus , but are foulely disioynted , and related in other manner then they lye in Irenaeus his context . As the bread ( saith he ) that is from the earth after diuine inuocation is no more common bread , but the Eucharist consisting of two things , the one earthly , the other heauenly : So our bodies receiue the Eucharist are not now corruptible , hauing the hope of resurrection . 3. Where first , He denieth the bread after consecration , to be any more i i Non iam communi pani , &c. common bread : as before him Iustin Martyr , that they receiued those creatures k k 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Iustin. apolog. 2. not as common bread , or common drinke . And doth not their Cyril ( as before you heard ) deny the oyle also after it is consecrate , to be any more l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Cyril catech. myst. 3. common oyle ? Or may we not say truly as the Auncients also oft doe ? yea dare any Christian man say otherwise , but that the water in Baptisme being once consecrated , is no more * * Non iam aqua communis . Chrysost. hom. in Psal. 22. & Greg. Nyssen , de Baptism . 〈…〉 Irenaeus contr. Valent. l. 4. c , 34. common Water ? There is nothing then hitherto said by Irenaeus of the bread , but what may truly be said of any other consecrated creature : since that holy and common in this sense oppose and expell either other . Secondly , he saith that the Encharist consisteth of two things , the one earthly , the other heauenly . And doe not all Sacraments the same ? Or doth not Baptisme the like ? you may be pleased to consider , what out of their owne m m Ambros. nom . de initiat . myst c. 3. Ambrose was before said of it ; as also out of Gregorie Nyssene is here after related . For it is nothing to the purpose that Bellarmine obiecteth , that no man would say that the water of Baptisme consisteth of two things , the one earthly , the other heauenly : For neither * Greg. Nyssen . de baptis . doth Irenaeus say that the bread of the Eucharist , but the Eucharist it selfe of such two things consisteth . But I n Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2. c. 6. would faine know how the Eucharist according to their doctrine should , when the bread is once consecrated , consist at all of any earthly thing , when the substance thereof is ( as they say ) thereby vtterly abolished ? Sure Irenaeus his Eucharist consisting of matter in part earthly , and theirs hauing none at all such , are not one and the same . Thirdly , Irenaeus saith that our bodies receiuing the Eucharist are no more now corruptible ; in regard of hope and expectation he meaneth of their future resurrection , which thereby they are assured of and sealed vp vnto : ( for otherwise who seeth not that they are not yet incorruptible ? ) as he afterward expoundeth himselfe . And what is said more here of the Lords Supper , then o o Ad spem resurrectionis Baptizatur corpus quae nisi corporalis , non alias sic baptismate corporali obligaretur . &c. Tertull. de resurr. carn. Hinc Hilar. de Trinit. l. 9. Regeneratio baptismi resurrectionis est virtus . Tertullian and others say of Baptisme , to wit , that by it the Flesh also hath its assurance of resurrection to life eternall ? yea let them looke backe but a line or two , and they shall soone see , how little Irenaeus fauoureth their cause ? p p Quomodo dicunt carnem in corruptionem deuenire &c. quae à corpore Domini & sanguine alitur . Iren. l. 4. c. 34. How ( saith he ) say they that the flesh perisheth and liueth not euerlastingly , that is nourished with the body and blood of Christ ? He affirmeth our flesh to be nourished with that which hee calleth the body and blood of Christ . And else-where more plainely : q q Quando mixtus cali● & fractus panis percipit verbum Dei , fit Eucharistia sanguinis & corporis Christi , ex quibus augetur & consistit carnis nostrae substantia . Idem l. 5. c. 4. When the Cup mixed , and the bread broken receiueth the word of God , it becommeth the Eucharist of the body and blood of Christ , of which the substance of our bodies groweth and consisteth . r r Idem ibid. Now how deny they the flesh to be capable of life eternall , that is nourished with Christs body and blood ? And againe , s s Ea dispositio quae est secundum hominem , quae ex carnibus & neruis & ossibus consistit , de calice , qui est sanguis eius nutritur , & de pane qui est corpus eius augetur . Ibid. That part of man that consisteth of flesh , sinewes and bones , is nourished by the cup that is his blood , and groweth , or is encreased by the bread that is his body . The same with that , which out of Iustine wee shall hereafter further consider of , that t t Ex 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Iustin. apolog. 2 , our flesh and blood are nourished by the Eucharisticall foode by a change thereof , that is , it being changed and turned into them . But to say so u u Eucharistia nutriri corporis nostri substantiam nih●l fingi potest absurdius . Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2 c 4. of the very body and blood of Christ is , by these mens owne grants , most absurd . That in the Eucharist therefore that Irenaeus , and before him Iustine , speake thus of , is not the very flesh and blood of Christ it selfe , but x x Offerimus ei , non quasi indigenti , sed gratias agentes donationi eius , & sanctificantes creaturam . Irenaeus l. b. 4. cap. 34. the creature sanctified , as he himselfe tearmeth it ; or y y Primitias earum quae sunt eius creaturatum offerentes . the first-fruits of Gods creatures , which in way of thankefulnesse , z z Offerens ei cum gratiarum actione ex creatura eius . Ibid. with thankesgiuing , he saith , they offer vnto God ; why so tearmed , is out of Augustine and others shewed else-where .

The third allegation is ( as he saith ) out of a a Patres in votis primi Niceni Consilii . the voices of the Fathers in the first Nicene Councel . Where I might well out of Cardinal Baeronius except , that there are b b Baron . annal. tom. 3. anno 325. num 62. & 63. no● Acts of that first Nicene Councel now extant : and that the worke out of which this allegation is taken , is c c I de ex Photio , ibid. et annal. tom. 6. anno 496. no record of those Acts , but a story onely of that Councell , written by one that liued long after it , d d Baron ibid. & Greg. de Valent. de transubstan . l. 2. c. 7. whom they themselues account to be but a sorry obscure fellow , and one of no great credite . But let the Author , or the Relator rather , passe ; and let vs heare his relation . Those holy Confessors ( saith hee ) will vs at the diuine Table not to regard onely bread and wine proposed , but to eleuate our minde by faith , and be holde on the holy Table the Lambe of God , &c. by Priests vnbloodily sacrificed ; and receiuing his body and blood to beleeue them to be symboles and pledges of our resurrection . Heere is nothing at all that any way hurteth our cause . First , they acknowledge “ “ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 bread to be and abide in the Euchaerist : which these men vtterly deny . Secondly , they will vs * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 not basely to regard therein the bread and cup , or the elements onely . And the very same in the same place of Baptisme they say , that e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Gelas. Cyzic de act . Conc. Nic. diatyp 4. wee must not so much regard in it the water that wee see , as the power of God accompanying it ; of which wee shall speake more vpon another the like occasion f f Diuis. 8. sect. 4. hereafter . Thirdly they will vs g g 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . &c. Ibid. diatyp . 5. to lift vp our minde , and by faith to consider ( for so their words are ) the Lambe of God lying on the Table . And by faith we grant that hee is not seene and considered onely , but receiued also in the Eucharist . Fourthly , they say , not ( as this man translateth it ) that hee is vnbloodily there sacrificed , but that hee is h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ibid. without sacrificing there sacrificed ; that is not really , but i i Mysticè immolatur , & in mysterio Christi passio traditur . Paschas . Pp. apud Grat ▪ de cons. dist. 2. c. Iteratur . mystically and symbolically sacrisiced ; or k k Non rei veri●●te , sed significante mysterio . Aug. ibid. c. Hoc est . not in truth of the thing , but in a mystery signifying the same : as out of Pope Pascasius and Augustine in their Canons themselues speake . Fiftly , they say , that wee receiue his bodie and blood in the Encharist ; yea they are reported to say ( which hee omitteth here ) that wee doe l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . truely receiue them : which that we doe truely also and effectually ( according to our doctrine ) though spiritually and not corporally , hath m m Discourse Argument 〈…〉 . Answer to Obiection . already beene shewen , and shall n n Diuision 12. in his due place againe bee further confirmed . And lastly , that these are o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . symboles or pledges of our resurrection ; which how they was are was before shewed out of Tertullian , who p p Caro abluiter , vngitur , signatur , manuum impositione adumbratur , corpore & sanguine Christi vescitur , &c. Tertul . de resur . carn. from those Sacraments and sacred rites and exercises in generall ( as well other as these ) that the body partaketh in , draweth r r Quam Deus sacramentis suis disciplinis que vestiuit , cuius munditias amat , castigationes probat , passiones adpreciar , haeccine non resurget ? Ibid. Arguments to confirme the faith of the resurrection of it .

The next allegation is out of S. Ephrem , whose both praises and speeches he hath borrowed from s s Bella. de Euchar . l. 3 c. 19. Bellarmine : which Bellarmine when hee hath cited , addeth withall in a brauery , as if the proofes were so pregnant that there were no gainesaying of them , t t Idem ibid. To this testimonie our aduersaries neither doe answer , nor indeede can answer ought . That none had then answered , was not much to be maruelled : as u u Harding answer to Iewel . art. 10. Sect 6. Harding saith of their Cyrill ; few had yet the q Sacrificia Deo grata de bonis carnis adolentur Deo . sight of him . One of that name indeed wrote many things x x Hieron . in catolog . Script . in the Syriacke tongue long since , hauing no skill at all in the Greeke . And vnder his name our Popish Fatherbreeders haue of late set out a many of Sermons and Treaeises , that haue no testimonie at all from antiquity the most of them ; translated ( as they tell vs ) out of Greeke , which hee good man neuer spake ; quoting some of them Greeke Authors at large , whom hee neuer vnderstood ; wanting all of them that a a A cumen sublimis ingen i. Hieron . catal . scr subtilty and sublimitie of wit , that Ierome commendeth in Ephrems workes , and b b Hieron . ibid. & Sozom. hist. l. 3. c. 16. appeared euen in the trarslations of them , as both hee and others affirm of them ; very sorry and silly things a great part of them ; not free from grosse vntruths and c c In his last Will and Testament , that he neuer in all his life spoke foolish word , nor cursed any one , nor was contentious , &c. And yet the direct contrary in his Relation to the Monks of his Con●ersion . contradictions , yea and ridiculous too , if not impious assertions ; as that d d Saluete omnes Sancti , saluete Apostoli , Prophetae , &c. De poenit . c. 7. the damned spirits in hell salute all the Saints in y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Theodoret. hist. l 4. c. 19. & Sozom. l. 3. c. 16. heauen , and by name the Apostles , Prophets , and Martyrs , the Patriarches , Monkes , and the Uirgin Mary : and lastly their e e Tot ferè mutationes , inuersiones , & additiones , dum iste omittit quae ille habet , & contra , quot verba . Riuet . specim . Criti. l. 3. c. 21. seuerall editions of them so chopped and changed , mangled and made vp againe , cut off or pieced out , as they pleased that had the breeding of them , that scarce any one of them is any whit like another . The testimonies cited out of him could not be answered , before the Author himselfe was hatched , and his workes abroad in mens hands , that they might bee seene and knowne what they were . And now that they are seen and known what they are , they appeare plainely to be such , that they are not worthy of any answer . Vnlesse it bee deemed equall that wee bee tied to answer to euery saying that is alleadged out of any counterfeite , that they shall at any time thrust out with the glorious title of some Ancient Father clapt on his Frontispice . And yet neither are this Authors wordes ( what euer he be ) by the Cardinals good leaue , for all his great bragge , so pregnant and full for them that no answer can be giuen to them . He saith that the mysteries of Christ are most admirable and inscrutable : and who denieth it ? this follow himselfe f f Diuision . 12. bringeth in Caluin and Beza saying the same : and that men ought not to g g Curiosè rimari . pry ouer curiously into them : wherein not we , but their * * Qui tamen ipse in Eccles. Hierar . c. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . S. Dennis is faulty , & their h h Vide Eras. in moria , & in enchirid . Sarcer . de vanit . Schol. Theolog. Statum lacessunt omnipollentis Dei calumniosis litibus : Fidem mintuis dissecant ambagibus : Vt quisque lingu● nequior ; Soluunt ligantque quaestionum vincula Persyllogismos Plectiles Quid non libido mentis humanae stru●t ? Quid non malo●um prutiat ? Prudent . apotheos . Schoolemen who with their wanton wit haue therein exceeded all bounds as well of modestie as of measure : * * Pa●ticipa corpori Domini tui fide . that we partake with our Lords immaculate bodie by faith : ( for so in Uossius his edition are his wordes distinguished ) which we may well without any such corporall presence of it , as i i See Diuision 12. num. 2. by their owne Authors is confessed : that k k Certum quod agnum ipsum integrum comedis . wee must be assured that we eate the Lambe himselfe whole : which is contrary , not to our doctrine , who say and shew euidently , that l l See Diuision 6. Sect. 6. the Fathers did as much that liued euen before Christ was incarnate , but to m m Ibid. Sect. 1. num. 4. the doctrine of their Pope Nicholas , as else-where is shewed . So that here is nothing that we need so much to stick at , or that should be deemed so vnanswerable : vnlesse he wil presse vs with that that followeth , that n n Ignem & spiritum manducandum ac bibendum praestitit nobis , corpus sci● . & sanguinem suum . Ephrem . ibid. Christ giueth vs fire to feed on , when hee giueth vs his body : as Chrysostome saith sometime that o o Chrysost , de Euchar. in encaen . fire floweth from the Lords table , and it is a coale of fire that wee receiue in the Eucharist . Which if they will expound figuratinely and spiritually , as I suppose they must needs , let them giue vs the like liberty to vnderstand the former wordes in like manner . I will adde only and so leaue this Ephrem , what in the very same discourse himselfe saith : p p Quaenam sit ista potio atque perceptio disc●re nostrum est . Ephrem de non scrutan nat . Dei . what this potion and perception is ( saith he ) it is our part to learne : ( And it is lawfull then belike , yea and our dutie too , to make some kinde of inquiry into it . ) Marke diligently , how Christ taking bread into his hands , q q Benedixit & fregit in figuram corporis sui . blessed it , and brake it , for a figure of his immaculate body ; and how hee r r In figuram sanguinis sui benedixit . ib. blessed the Cup , for a figure of his blood . Which wordes ( I take it ) encline rather to our doctrine then to theirs . And yet further in the same Treatise : s s Fidei oculis &c. Dei agnum sincere intuetur . With the eyes of faith , when like light it shineth bright in a mans heart , doth he cleerly see the Lambe of God , that was slaine for vs , and that hath giuen vs his holy and immaculate bodie t t Vt eo perpetuo vescamur . perpetually to feede vpon , and to partake of vnto remission of sinnes . u u Si quis hunc side● oculum possider , patenter & lucidè con●picit Dominum . This eye of faith he that hath , doth cleerely and openly see the Lord , and x x Fide agni immaculati corpus manducat & sanguinem bibit . by a sure and full faith eateth of the bodie of that immaculate Lambe , the onely begotten sonne of the heauenly Father , and drinketh his blood , &c. By faith ( saith hee ) wee see the Lambe of God , ( as expounding that that was said out of the storie of the Nicene Councell before ) and by faith wee seede on him , and his bodie and blood , and partake of him , perpetually ; and not in the Eucharist onely . Which as it fitteth not their orall manducation , which without faith may bee effected , so it agreeth well with that spirituall feeding , that we expound our Sauiours wordes of . So little doth this their Ephrem further or auaile them in this Argument .

Lastly , for the high tearmes and stately titles that the Ancient Fathers giue the Eucharist ; let him but compare them with s s 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Dionys. hier. eccles. c. 2. Punici Christiani Baptis . salutem , Sacramentum corporis Christi vitam vocant . Aug. de pecc . mer. l. 1. c. 24. those that they giue to its elder sister , the other Sacrament of Baptisme , and I suppose hee will finde little oddes betweene either . Onely for what hee saith of their affirming that the Angels adore it : let the places bee produced , and they shall then bee answered . That they are present oft , ( and if present , no doubt present with much reuerence ) as well at the celebration of the Lords Supper , as at other parts of Gods worship ; and z z Heb. 1. 6 that they adore him who is therein represented , ( which is all that Chrysostome saith in the places produced out of him by * * De Euchar. l. 2. c. 22. Bellarmine ) we deny not : and of Baptisme in effect their “ “ In praefat. ad Catechis . Cyrist saith as much . But that they doe adore as y 1 Cor. 11. 10. God a piece of bread or a sorry wafer cake , as the Papists doe in their Masse , therein committing as grosse idolatry ( it is * * Talis error qualis in orbe terrarum nunquam visus vel auditus fuit . Tolerabilior est enim error eorum qui pro Deo colunt statuam auream aut argenteam , aut alterius materiae imaginem , quomodo Gentiles Deos suos venerabantur , vel pannum ubrum in hastam eleuatum , quod narratur de Lappis , vel viua animalia vt quondam Aegyptii , quàm eorum qui frustum panis , &c. Coster . Iesuit , enchirid . de Transubstan . their owne grant , if it be not Christ , which we well know it is not ) as euer any was in the world , that we vtterly deny , nor will this Defendant euer be able to produce any one Orthodox Father that euer so said . And thus much for his allegations , though produced here to no purpose , to disprooue ( as they might well enough without hurting of vs ) no assertion of ours , but a fiction of his owne framing ; nor was it necessarie therefore that they should haue beene answered . Let vs now proceede to the next part of his Answer .

Diuision 6.

HIs next ground for ouerthrowing our literall vnderstanding of Christs wordes and reall presence of his true N. P. bodie and blood in the Sacrament , is an vnlearned and slender manner of proouing our Sauiours large discourse in S Iohn . 6. not to bee at all vnderstood of sacrament all manducation , but spirituall eating his flesh and blood by beleeuing in him . And first hee quareleth at Pope Nicholas manner of speech , making Berengarius in the abiuration of his heresie to affirme not onely the signe , but the body it selfe of Christ to bee handled by the Priests hands , and rent and bruised with the teeth of the faithfull , &c. Which manner of speech was purposely by Pope Nicholas in a Councell of learned Doctors devised to make this slippery shifting hereticke make a direct and plaine confession of his faith concerning our Sauiours being present in the hands of the Priest consecrating the Sacrament , and mouthes of such as receiue him impassible now in his owne corporall nature glorified , and vncapable of renting or any kinde of corporall mutation , as being not with the sacramental signes also quantitatiuely extended , but indiuisibly and after a spirituall manner existing , yet really handled and receiued as Angels in assumpted bodies are said to bee seene , and felt , and as S. Iohn Baptist likewise Ioh. 1. said he saw the holy Ghost , when hee onely saw a Doue the signe of his presence , &c. which manner of speech is not v●usuall with the holy Fathers . Thou seest him , ( saith S. Chrysostome speaking of Christ in the Sacrament ) Thou touchest him , Thou eatest him , &c. Which is the same in sense which Pope Nicholas affirmeth , onely hee explicateth somewhat more particularly the diuision and fraction of the sacramentall formes containing the very bodie and blood of Christ , vnder them all and each particle of them entirely and vndeuidedly remaining . Insomuch as Iohn Husie falsely wont by our Aduersaries to be claimed for Patron and faithfull witnesse of their doctrine , singeth thus in certaine verses of Christs presence and manner of being receiued in the Sacrament , which hee with vs to his dying day constantly beleeued , as now also his disciples doe after him ;

Non est panissed est Deus Qui in cruce pependisti Non augetur consecratus ; Nec diuisus in fractura , Homo liberator meus : Et in carne defecisti : Nec consumptus fit mutatus ; Plenus D●us in statura .

It is not bread , but God and Man my Redeemer , who hanged on a Crosse , and died in flesh for me . Hee is not encreased on multiplied by Consecration , nor diuided in breaking of the Host , but God full in stature . So likewise S. Andrew in his passion authentically ( as l l Lib. 2. de Euchar. Bellarmine proueth ) written by the Clergie of Achaia present thereat , told the Procounsul Egeus ; I dayly offer to God , who is one and omnipotent , not the flesh of Buls & blood of Goats , but the immaculate Lambe vpon the Altar , whose flesh when all the multitude of faithfull people hath receiued , the Lambe sacrificed integer perseuer at ac viuus ; doth liue and remaine entire , &c. So as Pope Nicholas doctrine vnderstood of Christs flesh being eaten in the Sacrament , needeth not Gratians Glosse to saue it from hereticall blaspemy and the danger of a worse opinion then Berengarius renounced , vnlesse hee had taught Christs flesh in it selfe to haue beene torne with teeth and bloodily eaten , as the Capharnites imagined ; and m m S. Aug. in Psal. 98. the Gentile persecutors were went to obiect against poore Christians , that they did eate the flesh of a certaine man in their synaxes and meetings ; calling them men eaters , &c. to wit , because they did eate bread and drinke wine consecrated by the miraculous force of Christs wordes into his naturall flesh and blood ; as Saint Iustine that holy Martyr and great Christian Philosopher told Aurelius the Emperor in his second Apologie for Christians ; where hee describeth ( as much as it was fit for him to open the heauenly mysteries of our faith to the Gentiles ) the whole order of the Sacrifice and distribution of the Sacrament as it is now celebrated by vs : this being the new Oblation of the New Testament , as n n Lib. 2. c. 32. S. Irenaeus tearmeth it , instituted by Christ in his last Supper , and that cleane Sacrifice which Malachie foretold should succeed in place of the Iewish Sacrifices , and be offered by the Gentiles in all places .

IN the next place I proceede to discusse the wordes of T. G. our Sauiour concerning the eating his flesh and drinking his blood . Iohn 6.

Where first I quarell ( he saith ) at P. Nicholas his maner of speech deuised purposely ( as this mine Aduersary here informeth vs ) in a Councell of learned Bishops to make a slippery shifting heretike , make a direct and plain confession of his faith concerning the reall presence . His words are , as I haue related them , that the very body of Christ in the Eucharist is broken with the Priests hands , and torn in pieces with mens teeth , not sacramentally only , but sensually . Which palpable absurdities , and carnall and Capernaiticall assertions this Defendant would faine salue if hee could ; ( but he sheweth himselfe therein but a sorry Quackesaluer . )

1. By citing ( besides some of his owne counterfaits , of which more anone ) a saying of S. Chrysostome , affirming that the faithfull see , and touch , and eate Christ in the Eucharist : which neither they nor we deny ; nor is it ought to the purpose , vnlesse Chrysostome should also say , that hee is eaten in such sort as Pope Nicholas averreth , not sacramentally onely , or spiritually , but euen sensually : so hee saith . For so t t Galat. 3. 1. the Galathians also saw him crucified ( as the Apostle telleth them ) in their sight : and some of the Ancients say that euen u u Quotidiè nascitur Christus . Hieron . nomine in Ps. 86. Quotidiè nobis crucifigitur : quotidiè resurgit . Idem in Psal. 95. Quod Bern. explicatius , in vigil . nativ . ser. 6. Immolatur adhuc quotidiè , donec mortem eius annuncia● us : 〈…〉 videtur , dum natiuitatem eius fideliter repraesentamus . at this day he is crucified .

2. By telling vs that Christs glorified bodie is incapable of renting : which if it be so , how saith Pope Nicholas that it is torne in pieces ? This is a strange manner of saluing him , to tell vs that that cannot be done , which he in precise tearmes saith is vsually done . And marke here ( I pray you how these men * * Quod Cardano S●al . de su●ti● . exerc. 149. More Cingarorum in Alpinis mercatibus intus foras mitt●nt corrigiolam . play fast and loose with vs . They tell vs , when wee presse them with the indignitie of the thing , that Christs bodie cannot bee bruised now or broken : and this is ( it seemeth ) when they speake mystically or shiftingly , as hee speaketh . But when they make a plaine and direct confession ( for so hee saith Pope Nicholas did when hee thus spake , and no formes are more exact , saith `` Nullae sunt exactior●s formulae loquendi in materia fide● , quàm eae , quibus vtuntur , qui haeresin abiurant Bellar. de imag. c. 22. Bellarmine , then those formes of abiuration are ) then they acknowledge that according to their saith and beliefe ( if they beleeue at least as they speake , and doe not dally with vs and delude vs ) Christs very bodie is sensually rent and torne in pieces in the Sacrament .

3. By granting that if he had taught that Christs flesh in it selfe were torne with teeth , &c. it were indeed hereticall blasphemie . And what other thing ( I pray you ) doth Pope Nicholas affirme , when he saith that * * Non solum sacramentum , sed verum corpus & sanguinem Christi in veritate sensual●ter , & non in sacramento tantum tracta ●i & frangi Durand . ex Nicol. in ration . diuin. l. 4. p. 2. ad 6. p. can . Christs very bodie not in the Sacrament onely , but in very truth and sensually is torne in pieces with mens teeth ? This is not to excuse him , but to accuse and condemne him both of heresie and blasphemy .

4. By affirming that the Popes wordes need not Gratians Glosse to saue them from any such imputation . Yet Gabriel Biel a great Schooleman ( whom wee rather beleeue ) freely confesseth that Pope Nicholas in so saying u u Veritatem excessit Gabr. Biel in Can Miss. lect 80. exceeded the truth ; ( as another Glosse on Gratian also x x Gloss. ad Grat de consecr dist. 2. c. vtrum . else-where acknowledgeth ) and while he sought to shun one error ranne into another : wherein * * Quae nec Roffensis contra Oecolamp . l. 2. c 12. nec Caietanus lib. de coena Domini ab errore liberare potuerunt . Canus loc. Commun . l. 5. c. 1. others also of their owne writers dare not defend him . So that the Pops sitting in his Chaire , yea and in Councell too , with all his learned Bishops , like himselfe , round about him , consistorially to censure and to determine truth in matter of faith , may yet erre for all his infallibility , so much & so oft b●agged of . And it was not vnwisely done of Bellarmine to let this passe , y y De Pontif. Rom. lib. 4. where he relateth and refuteth as well as he may , the seuerall errors and heresies that their Popes are charged with .

§ ▪ 2. Heere by the way ( though little to the present purpose , to wit , the cleering of Pope Nicholas ) that hee may fill vp his Discourse with some shew of allegations ;

1. Hee telleth vs that Iohn Husse was of their iudgement concerning the Sacrament ; and alledgeth a sorry Rome to prooue it ; which whence hee hath , I know not , nor am able to say , what Husse sometime held : But sure I am that in the Councell of Constance one of the Articles , wherewith he was charged , and for which condemned , and ( contrary to the Emperours safeconduct granted him ) perfidious●● burnt , was a a Concil. Constant. Sess. 15. art. 17. the deniall of Transubstantiation as a deuice inuented to delude simple people with : and the teaching and maintaining as well publikely as priuately that the substance of bread , and materiall bread , remained after Consecration in the Sacrament ; deposed by many that had heard him , and that had argued about it with him .

2. He citeth a few Fathers , some forged , as the Author of the Passion of S. Andrew ; some falsified , as that of Iustine Martyr ; ( which shall by and by be examined ) some saying nothing but what wee will willingly yeeld him , as both Irenaeus , and that also out of the apocryphall Story of S. Andrew : which howsoeuer he saith that Bellarmine ( which is his wonted manner of proofe ) hath proued to be authenticall : Yet neither are his proofes pregnant ; no iust antiquitie being produced for it ; and by b b To which adde Card. Baronius Annal. Tom. 1. ann. 44. nu. 42. & 43. & ann 69. num. 34. acknowledging as much . others of their owne ( as we shewed before ) it is confessed to be apocryphall : and , if we may beleeue Bellarmine himselfe , there is some grosse vntruth in it . For this vncertaine Author affirmeth that S. Andrew was not nailed with nailes , but with cords eyed to the crosse , ( as their counterfeit c c Abdias Babylon . histor. lib. 3. Abdie also saith ) that he might liue the longer in paine , as he did preaching two daies together as he hung there aliue : Whereas , if d d Bellarm. de cult. Sanct. l. 2. c. 27. Bellarmine may be beleeued , it was not so , but he was with nailes fastned , as e e Ioh. 20. 25. Christ was , to the Crosse.

But to leaue that , as saying nothing that we neede sticke at ; no more then we doe at ought that out of Irenaeus is alleadged . I may not let passe his falsifying of Iustine Martyr ; whom hauing so little occasion to alledge here , he may well seeme for no other end to haue alleadged , but to falsifie what he saith of this Sacrament ; in which kinde he hath the best gift one of them that euer I knew any . Iustine Martyr ( saith he ) in his 2. Apologie , where , as far as was fit , &c. he describeth the whole order of the Sacrifice and distribution of the Sacrament as it is now celebrated by vs , telleth Antoninus the Emperour that they did therein eate bread and drinke wine conuerted by the miraculous force of Christs words into his naturall flesh and blood . Now heare Justines owne words : Hauing spoken before of Baptisme : After this ( saith he ) is there bread and a cup of water and wine presented to the Prelate of the brethren : Who receiuing the same sendeth vp praise and glory to the Father of all , by the name of the Sonne and the holy Ghost ; and at large giueth thankes to him for being vouchsafed to be by him reputed worthy of these things . And when he hath ended his prayers and thankes-giuing , all the people answer , Amen . Now when the Prelate hath giuen thankes , and all the people haue answered , those that we call Deacons , giue to each one of those that be present to partake of f f Eucharisticatum . i. sanctificatum & benedictum . Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 10. the blessed Bread , and wine and water , and they carry of it to those that be not present . And this foode is with vs called the Eucharist ; which none may partake of but those that beleeue , haue beene baptised , and liue as Christ taught . For we receiue not these things as common Bread and Wine ; but in like maner as Christ our Sauiour being by the word of God incarnate had flesh and blood , so haue wee beene taught that the foode g g Eucharistiam factum . Ibid. l. 2. c. 4. blessed by the word of prayer that is from him , whereby our blood and flesh by a change are nourished , is the flesh and blood of that Iesus Christ incarnate . For so in the Gospels haue the Apostles deliuered that Iesus enioyned them , hauing taken the bread and giuen thankes to say , Doe this in remembrance of me ; This is my Body : And taking the Cup likewise , and hauing giuen thankes to say ; This is my blood ; and to giue it to such onely .

Now first tell me ( I pray you ) where there is any mention of a Sacrifice in Iustine , distinct especially from the Sacrament , that this corrupter of all almost that he dealeth with , should say ; Iustine describeth the whole order of the Sacrifice and distribution of the Sacrament . True it is that the Fathers tearme the Lords Supper oft a Sacrifice ; ( as we also in our Liturgie : ) partly in regard of the h h Vnde & Eucharistia dicitur . Iansen concord . cap. 131. Vide Aug. epist 120. & Euseb. demonstr. Euang. l. 1. c. 10. spirituall Sacrifice of praise therein offred ; and partly because it is a liuely representation and commemoration of Christs Sacrifice i i Heb. 13. 15. once offred on the Crosse ; ( as their k k Lombard . sent. l 4. d. 22. Master of the Sentences himselfe explaineth it ; ) and partly also because l l Tertull. contr. Marc. l. 4. Ambr. in Luc. c. 1. Gaudent . in Exod. tract . 2. & Aug. contr. Faust. l. 6. c. 5. & l. 20. c 21. & contr. advers. leg . & proph. c. 18. it succeedeth in the roome of the Passeouer , and those other Sacrifices , that in the old Testament were offred . But that they euer dreamed of any other Sacrifice distinct and diuers from the Sacrament , no Papist shall euer be able to prooue . Nor either out of our Sauiours words , or Iustines report can be gathered .

2. Obserue how iustly Iustine describeth the whole order of this Sacrifice and distribution of the Sacrament , as it is celebrated by them . Yea , marke and iudge ( I pray you ) whether his description of it come neerer vnto ours or vnto theirs .

1. Where are all those crossings and bendings , and ●ringes , and turnings , and eleuations , and adorations , and mimicke gestures , and apish sooleries that their Masse-bookes enioyne ?

2. As well the cup as the bread is giuen to all present ; which Iustine also saith that Christ enioyned them to giue ; and which Pope Gelasius m m Diuisio vnius eiusdem mysterii sine grandi sacrilegio non potest provenice . Gelas. Pp. apud Grat. de consecr. d. 2. c. ●ōperimus . saith cannot be seuered from the Bread without great Sacriledge . Whereas with them the people may not meddle at all with it .

How many toyes are there in theirs that are not touched at all in Iustine ? And againe , what is there in Iustines relation , that is not found in our Protestanticall ( as he tearmeth it ) communion ? that sending of it home ordinarily onely excepted , which neither they themselues vse ordinarily when they celebrate , and the danger of repaire hindring accesse ( it seemeth ) then occasioned .

3. Where doth Iustine say , as this corrupt corrupter reporteth him , that they eate bread and drinke wine conuerted by the miraculous force of Christs words into his naturall flesh and blood ? No one word in him of a miraculous conuersion , nor of their being the naturall flesh and blood of Christ . There is mention indeede of a change , and that a naturall change , not of the creatures into Christs naturall flesh and blood , but of the blessed foode , Or the foode made the Eucharist ( as n n De Eucharist . lib. 2. c. 4. Bellarmine translateth it ) into our flesh . Which words though o o Bellarm. ibid. Bellarmine would faine wrest awry , because they wring him , yet no Grammer will admit any other sense of them . From whence it is apparent that the blessed foode that Iustine speaketh of , is not really , but symbolically and figuratiuely Christs body . For p p Eucharistia nutriri substantiam corporis nostri , nihil absurdius fingi potest . Bellarm. Ibid. there can nothing be deuised more absurd ( saith Bellarmine ) then that the Substance of our bodies should be nourished with Christs flesh . But our flesh and blood ( and that , I hope , is the substance of our Bodies ; as Irenaeus also expressely speaketh ) are nourished ( saith Iustine ) by the blessed foode , or by the Bread and Wine made the Eucharist , and that q q 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . N. P. by a * Ex quibus augetur carnis nostrae Substantia . Iren. l. 4 c. 5. change of the things receiued . The blessed foode therefore that Iustine speaketh of , is not really Christs naturall Body , as this mis-reporter and mis-expounder of him affirmeth .

NEither can euer the Minister prooue his ensuing Assertion , that Christs corporall presence in the thing eaten must necessarily inferre and enforce a corporall and carnall manner of eating him , vnlesse his bodie had therein a corporall extensiue and sensible manner of existing ; which is by no Catholike Author affirmed ; and so no hainous and vnseemely thing is in such a manner of receiuing Christs body committed : For auoiding whereof we should be enforced to runne to a figuratiue interpretation of our Sauiours speeches , Ioh. 6. So as to exclude the reall receiuing of our Sauiours flesh and blood in the Sacrament ; as out of an obscure place of S. Austin , cited by him page 7. and fully o o Lib. 2. de Euchar. answered by Cardinall Bellarmine , hee falsely gathereth ; the place proouing no more but that our Sauiours speech concerning the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood is figuratiue so farre forth as that his flesh was not carnally to be eaten , but after a Sacramentall and inuisible manner , as the signes of bread and wine doe containe them ; the chiefe end of his being so receiued by vs being indeed to communicate with Christs passion , and profitably to lay vp in our memories that his flesh was wounded for vs , as S. Austin in that place affirmeth . Whose p p Vide apud Bellarm. l. 2. de Euchar. plaine places for the reall receiuing of our Sauiours body and blood in the Sacrament my superficiall Aduersarie taketh no notice of , but as Eeles loue rather to hide themselues in durt then to swim in cleere waters ; so are hee and his companions glad to hide themselues and their hereticall nouelties , in darke and obscure places of the holy Fathers , not regarding their pregnant and plaine testimonies for vs , and against them , vnanswerably in other places expressed .

§ 3. AT length he pleaseth to recollect himselfe and T. G. returne to the matter in hand . Christs corporall presence ( saith he ) in the thing eaten , doth not necessarily inferre and enforce a corporall and carnall manner of eating him , vnlesse his body had therein a corporall , extensiue and sensible manner of existing .

To passe by these mysticall and metaphysicall tearmes , wherewith he and his Associates are wont to enwrap and inuolue themselues , like Eeles in mire and mud ( as himselfe speaketh ) that their absurd and senselesse doctrines , or dotages rather , may not be discerned ; nor to insist vpon the implication of contradiction , when he saith that Christs body is corporally , that is , bodily present in the Eucharist , and yet hath there no corporall , that is , bodily existence : a bodie bodily present , and yet not bodily existing ; like the Marcionites riddles in Tertullian ; A man no man ; Flesh no flesh ; r Vide Tertull . de carn . Christi , & contr. Marc. lib. 4. & 5. a body no body ; blood no blood : or , A body ; but not as a body ; with blood , but not as blood ; in a place , but not as in a place ; with qualities , but not qualitatiuely ; with quantitie , but not quantitatiuely . Such strange fancies and prodigies are these mens braines possest with .

1. If the one doe not follow vpon the other , Pope Nicholas was much to blame , when he inferred thereupon that Christs very body was sensually ( that is as much , if not more then corporally ) chewed and eaten in the Eucharist .

2. If it be true that Bellarmine telleth vs , that s s Carnaliter in nobis manere per Eucharistiam , Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2. c. 12. by the Eucharist Christ remaineth carnally in vs : which he citeth also , but with a foule hand , and * * Per Eucharistiam . some of his owne words foisted in , as a saying of S. Hilaries : then sure he must needs carnally be eaten of vs . And to see how inconstant error is , and how contrary to it selfe : one while he saith that there is t t Manducatio corporalis . Ibid. a corporall eating of Christs body in the Sacrament ; as their common tenent is : ( and how is he not then corporaelly eaten ? ) and that Christ carnally thereby abideth in vs : And yet againe another while ; out of Athanasius , that u u Manducationem corporis Christi non debere carnaliter accipi . Ibid. c. 11 the eating of Christs body is not carnally to be taken , nor is x x Carnali modo . Ibid. c. 14. in a carnall manner to be vnderstood .

In a word ; 1. Either Bread or Christs body must needs be corporally eaten in the Eucharist : but not bread , if we beleeue them ; for there is none there : and to say that meere accidents onely are chewed and fed vpon is most senselesse and absurd : It remaineth therefore that Christs body , if that alone be there , be corporally eaten there , as Pope Nicholas before affirmed .

2. Either Christs flesh is eaten there corporally , or spiritually onely . If corporally , why doth this fellow sticke at it , and is so loath to acknowledge it ? If spiritually onely , why vrge they those passages of Iohn 6. to prooue 〈…〉 corporall and bodily manducation of Christs body in the Eucharist ? And so come we to examine that place by them so much and so oft vrged to prooue such a carnall eating of Christ .

§ 4. Here this profound and learned Doctor telleth vs , that his superficiall Aduersarie hath in an vnlearned and slender manner endeauoured to prooue that our Sauiours discourse there is not to be vnderstood of Sacramentall Manducation , but of spirituall eating his flesh and blood by beleeuing in him .

I propound two Propositions to be prooued .

1. That the words are not to be vnderstood of any such corporall eating and drinking , as they hold .

2. That Christ doth not in that whole discourse speake of the Sacrament of the Eucharist , which was not as yet instituted , but of such spirituall feeding on Christ , as is performed , not in the Sacrament onely , but out of it also .

The former I prooue by a plaine place of S. Augustine ; which this Aduersarie , referring vs still for an answer to Bellarmine , ( from whom he borroweth the most that he hath ) saith is an obscure place , and is pleased a little after to tearme it no better then durt , which wee Protestants , like Eeles , desire to hide our selues in .

1. Were it not an absurd thing for Augustine to speake ●bscurely there , where he giueth rules for the opening and right vnderstanding of places obscure ? where should he speake more plainely and perspicuously then there ; where his maine aime is to make things cleere ?

2. This shifters answer borrowed from Bellarmine is but a bare shift ; to wit , that the place prooueth no more , but that our Sauiours speech concerning the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood is figuratiue so far forth , as that his flesh was not carnally to be eaten , and in a bloody manner , as flesh sold in the shambles is wont to be eaten , &c. As if flesh bought in the shambles vsed to be eaten raw and in bloody manner . Here is a deale of durt indeede and mud raised to trouble Augustines cleere water . The Question is whether our Sauiours words be to be vnderstood properly or figuratiuely . y y Non possunt figuratè accipi sed propriè . Bellarm. de Euchar . l. 1. c. 〈…〉 . They say properly ; and not figuratiuely : Augustine saith figuratiuely ; and so consequently , not properly : which is as much as is here required . z z Caro Christi verè ac propriè manducatur . Bellarm. de Euchar . 〈…〉 . 1. c. 11. Christs body ( saith Bellar mine ) is with the body properly eaten in the Eucharist . But it is no proper , but a figuratiue eating , saith Augustine , that Christ speaketh of Iohn 6. It is no such eating of Christs body therefore , as they imagine to be in the Eucharist . Yea so contrary to them , and so pregnant for vs is that passage of Augustine , that in Fulbertus his workes , where those words of his are related , they haue with a foule insertion branded them for a a Facinus vel flagitium videtur iubere . Figura est ergo , ●…icet hereti●us , &c. Apud Fulbertum in excerp●is post Se●m ●o tr . Iud. p. 168. hereticall .

Yea but ( saith mine Aduersarie ) there are many plaine places in Augustine , cited by Bellarmine , for the reall receiuing of Christ ; which my superficiall Aduersarie taketh no notice of . Bellarmine is still much in this mans mouth ; and the superficialnesse of his silly and vnlearned Aduersarie . But this ( I am sure ) is a very vnlearned , slender and superficiall proofe of points questioned , to turne his Reader ouer still for satisfaction to some other . Yet I will doe him the couttesie , since he telleth vs of other plaine places in Augustine to present him with one of them , though such an one ( it may be ) as will not easily goe downe with him . Augustine speaking of this place in Iohn on Psal. 98. saith that Christ hauing vsed those words , b b Ioh 6. 35. Vnlesse you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke his blood , you haue no life in you . When some vnderstood them c c Stultè carnaliter . foolishly and carnally , he taught them to vnderstand them d d Spiritaliter intelligere . spiritually ; saying , e e Ioh. 6. 63. It is the Spirit that quickneth ; the flesh profiteth nothing : the words that I speake are Spirit and life . As if he should haue said ; vnderstand you spiritually what I haue spoken . f f Non hoc corpus quod videtis manducatur , iestis & bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt qui me crucifigent . You are not to eate that body which you see , and to drinke that blood which they will shed that shall crucifie me . g g Sacramentum aliquod vobis commendaui : spiritualiter intellectum viuificabit vos . Etsi necesse est illud visibiliter celebrari , oport●t tamen inuifibiliter intelligi . N. P. I haue commended a kinde of Sacrament vnto you ; which being spiritually vnderstood will quicken you . Though it must be visibly colebrated , yet is it inuisibly to be vnderstood . Thus Augustine in plaine tearmes : and yet if we beleeue these men , the very same body of Christ that was then seene , and that very same blood that was shed on the Crosse is orally eaten and drunke in the Eucharist .

ANd surely if the Authoritie of holy Fathers might preuaile with the Minister further then himselfe listeth , he cannot be so ignorant as not to know that all the auncient Doctors expounding or treating of Christs words , Ioh. 6. haue literally vnderstood them of the Sacrament , as learned q q Tolet in c. 6. Ioan. Tolet , r r Saunders in lib. de illo cap. Saunders , s s Bellarm. lib. 1. de Euchar. Bellarmine , and other of our diuines haue particularly prooued ; collecting from them inuincible Testimonies also , to prooue the verity of our Sauiours body and blood really in the Sacrament conteined and receiued : Insomuch as S. Austin affirmeth S. Iohn purposely to haue emitted all mention of the Sacrament in our Sauiours last Supper , because he had in the 6. Chap. of his Gospell so particularly expressed the promised excellency and heauenly fruits thereof : and many euident and vnanswerable Arguments are by Catholike expositors of that Chapter made to prooue the same ; which with silence my Aduersarie ouerpasseth . First , ( for example ) our Sauiour from the 31. to the 60. verse of that Chapter maketh a difference betwixt the gift which his Father had giuen to the Iewes louing the world so as to giue his onely begotten Sonne for it , and the gift which himselfe meant to giue to them , speaking of the one as a gift already past ; but of the other as of a gift afterwards to bee giuen vnto them . Secondly , He compareth the eating of his flesh to the Israelites eating of Manna in the desert ; which was a corporall food really eaten by them . Thirdly , If by eating his flesh and drinking his blood our Sauiour meant no other thing then that they should beleeue in him , it had beene a strange course in him , who so thirsted after the saluation of soules by an obscure manner of speaking to driue away so many , such persons especially as had formerly followed him , without any word added , which might open this obscure doctrine vnto them ; as Card. Tollet excellently relateth there the whole processe of our Sauiours doctrine .

§ 5. MY second Proposition is , that Christ in that T. G. whole Discourse Iohn 6 doth not speake of the Eucharist .

That Augustine and diuers others of the ancient Fathers doe expound it of feeding on Christ , yet not corporally , but spiritually in the Sacrament ( for so h h Iansen . harmon . Euang. cap. 59. Sed & Gabr. Biel i● Can. Miss. lect. 36. Bishop Iansenius also ingenuously confesseth that Augustine holdeth it to be vnderstood of seeding on Christ spiritually , not corporally ; yea and so * * De comestione sacramentali ait Dominus ; Accipite & comedite ; Hoc est corpus meum : de comestione spirutuali dicit ; Nisi manducaueritis carnem filii hominis , &c. non habebitis vitam in vobis . Innocent . Pp. apud Durand in ration . diuin. l. 4. p. 2. ad p. 6. Can. & Biel in Can. lect. 36 , Pope Innocent himselfe , witnesse Durand , and Biel , and “ “ Magister apud Bonauen . in l. 4. sen. d 9. q. 1. Peter Lombard also , witnesse Bon●uenture , expound it : ) I deny not ; nor doth it at all impeach our cause in the maine point here in question of Christs corporall presence . Yet the rather herein wee are inforced ( together with diuerse Popish writers ) to depart from them in that their exposition ; so farre forth as they vnderstand the same as directly speaking of the Eucharist , ( as for the one moitie of that discourse also euen * * See below Bellar. de Eucharist . l. 1. c. 5. Bellarmine himself doth ) in regard of some erronious consequences that they were by that meanes enforced vnto , which euen the Papists themselues now condemne , and for other weighty reasons , as in my first writing I shew .

Yea but Catholique Expositors ( saith this Answerer ) by many euident and vnanswerable Arguments haue prooued that it is so to be vnderstood ; which his Aduersarie also ( saith hee ) euerpasseth with silence .

And say I , A Catholique Expositor ( in their language ) to wit , Corn. Iansenius ( no Iesuite now , for so this Answerer hath informed me , and yet ) a Bishop of Flanders , in a worke of his by common consent of the learned among them well approoued of ( they are the Popes owne Censurers wordes of it ) hath by euident and vnanswerable Arguments prooued that it cannot so bee vnderstood ; which this mine aduersarie also ouerpasseth with silence : And the like also doth Frier Ferus : and Gabriel Biel at large in the place aboue recited .

But hee will at length ( I hope ) say somewhat himselfe .

1. Our Sauiour ( saith he ) maketh a difference there betweene the gift which his Father had ●iuen the Iewes , and the gift that himselfe ment to giue , speaking of the one as past , of the other as to come : This out of Bellarmine .

I maruell where this man learned his Logicke . He neuer is luckie in the framing of his Consequences . There is a difference betweene the gift that God the Father had giuen ; and the gift that Christ would giue : Ergò Christs wordes must needs be vnderstood of his corporall presence in the Eucharist . How hang these things together ? or by what nec●ssity of consequence doth the one follow from the other ?

For first , Are they diuerse gifts that God the Father had giuen and that Christ would giue ? then the wordes are not meant of Christs corporall presence in the Eucharist . For therein the very same Christ that the Father gaue is giuen to the faithfull , as we say , spiritually ; to both faithfull and vnfaithfull , as they affirme , corporally . And therfore the gift is not diuers , as he saith , but the selfe same .

2. If hee say that the gift is diuers in regard of the diuers manner of giuing : who knoweth not that Christ , who had beene giuen by his Father ( and yet by himselfe also ) in his incarnation ; was after i i Mat. 20. 28. Ephes. 5. 2. giuen also by himselfe ( and yet k k Rom. 4. 23. and 8. 32. by his Father also ) in his passion . So their owne Iansenius expoundeth his words , that l l Quam & in mortem dabo . Iansen . vbi sup. he would giue his b●die also vnto death : and Frier Ferus that m m In mortem ad crucem . Fe●us in Ioan. 6. hee would giue it vnto death on the Crosse : for n n Illic coquetur panis iste . Fer. ibid. there ( saith hee ) was that bread to bee basked : and there that flesh of his ( saith Bonauenture ) was to be boyled . Yea so Gregory of Valence , My flesh that I will giue , p p Quam dab● 1. quā●fferam pro mund● vita . Greg. de . Val. de sacr. Mis. 1. 1. c. 3. that is , that I will offer for the life of the world : Where ( thinke we ) but on the Crosse ?

2. Christ ( saith he ) compareth the eating of his flesh to the Iewes eating of Manna ; which was a corporall food really eaten by them : and he must needs therefore speake of the Eucharist . Bellarmine was not so absurd indeed as to o In cruce facta est de●octio ca●●is , &c. Bonauen . in sent. l 4. c. 9. q 2. argue on this manner . As if the Manna were not also a spirituall type of Christ : and Christ might not as well compare the type with the truth ; as the type with the counter-type ; the type of the Manna q q 1 Cor. 10. 3. a spirituall food then really taken with the spirituall eating of Christ that was therin figured .

Or 〈…〉 ●f he might not compare our spirituall feeding on him with some corporall food really eaten ( which both here and else-where it is confessed , as shal presently be shewed , that he doth ) and yet not mention the Sacrament of the Eucharist at all .

Bellarmine saith indeede that r r Bellar. de Euchar. li. 1. c. 5. Christ compareth there with the Manna his bodie , not as it is receiued by faith alone , ( and then belike by Bellarmines grant it is truely so also receiued , euen out of the Sacrament ) but as in the Sacrament it is receiued . But how doth he proue it ?

1. From the Apostle , where s s 1 Cor. 10. 2 , 3. hee compareth Baptisme with the red Sea , and Manna with the Eucharist .

But how doth this follow ; The Apostle doth so there : therefore our Sauiour doth so heere ? especially considering how diuers the scope of either in either place is . The Apostles scope is to shew that t t 1 Cor. 10. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. the old Israelites had as good and as sure outward pledges of Gods fauour and loue as wee Christians now haue ; and yet “ “ Vers. 5-12 . were not spared when they prouoked him to wrath , for all that . Our Sauiours scope is to prooue that the spirituall food of his flesh , which u u Ioh. 6. 27. he there tendred them and aduised them to seeke after , was much more excellent and of farre greater vertue and efficacie , then the Manna that their Fathers did once eate in the Wildernesse . For , that x x Vide quae ex Cyri●lo Iansen . concord . cap. 59. that ( considered as corporall food ) was it selfe corruptible , and could not y y Ioh. 6. 49. preserue them that eate of it from death , whereas this was z z Vers. 27. food incorruptible , and being spiritually fed on would cause them a a Vers. 50. 51. to liue for euer . For the Apostles purpose therefore it was necessary to consider the Manna as a Sacrament and to compare the Eucharist with it , as with our Baptisme hee had paralleled the Red Sea before . But for our Sauiour so to do there was no necessity at all : Nor indeed doth he consider the Manna there as a Sacrament , no more then the Iewes did , that there mentioned it to him ; nor doth hee speake cught of the Sacrament where hee speaketh of the Manna , as b b Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 5. & 7. see below . Bellarmine also himselfe acknowledgeth . His speech to them occasioned by the c c Vers. 26. bread that they had eaten of , and d d Vers. 31. the Manna that they spake of , is the very like to that other speech of his to the Samaritane woman , occasioned by e e Ioh. 4. 7 10. the water that hee had asked of her ; f f Vers. 13. 14. He that drinketh of this water shall thirst againe ; but he that drinketh of the water that I shall giue him , shall neuer thirst more , &c. Which had it been considered , would easily haue assoyled those difficulties , that ( as g g Vide Iansen . in Ioan. 6. 49. Iansenius obserueth ) so much troubled Augustine , and Caietan , yea and Iansenius himselfe too . Nor was there any necessity that the bread of the Eucharist should bee more mentioned in the one place , then the drinke of it in the other .

2. Because h h Quia corpus Domini vt sumitur sola fide , non defuit veteribus . Bellar . ibid. Christs bodie , as by faith it is receiued , was not wanting to those of old time , that liued before Christs Incarnation .

What hee giueth vs heere wee take , that Christs body was by faith receiued euen before hee was incarnate . But how prooueth this that Christ therefore spake there of a sacramentall eating of it ? and not rather that he called home those his carnall followers , from the corporall feeding , either on i i Ioh. 6. 26. the bread that they had eaten of , or the k k Vers. 31. Manna that they mentioned , and l l Vers. 34. would faine still haue been fed with , that they might liue without labour , not to an eating of sacramentall bread , which they would not haue much misliked , but to that t t Vers. 27. spirituall feeding , u u Vers 50 , 51. which as well their holy forefathers , as all true and faithfull Christians now , were eternally saued by . Yea this may be confirmed by Bellarmines owne grants : Who first confesseth this as x x Constat in magna parte capitis de Eucharistia non agi . Solum quaestio est de illis verbis , Panis quem ego dabo , &c. & sequentibus Bellarm , de Euchar. l. 1. c. 5. a certaine truth , that there is no mention at all of the Eucharist in all that our Sauiours discourse , before those wordes , ( which were spoken after hee had done y y Vers. 3 , 49. speaking of the Manna ) z z Vers. 51. The bread that I will giue is my flesh , that I will giue for the life of the world . 2. Hee granteth expresly that those wordes , a a Vers. 35. I am the brad of life ; hee that commeth to me shall not hunger , &c. doe b b Non pertinent ad Sarramentum propriè Ibid. c. 7. not properly belong to the Sacrament . 3. He obserueth c c Triplicis panis mentio fit . Bellar ibid. a three fold bread spoken of by our Sauiour : the first , that d d Panis materialis . materiall bread , e e Vers. 11. 12. that Christ had fed them withall : the second f f Secundum panem dicit seipsum esse . spirituall bread , g g Vers. 33. 41 , 51. himselfe incarnate , h h Verse 27. which hee wisheth them to get , and must i i Vers. 29. 35. by faith be apprehended , that it may feed and refresh ●s : the third ( hee might well haue said k k Vers. 49. M●nna , which he omitteth , termed also l l Vers. 31. ex P●… l. 78. 24 , 25. bread there , but ) m m Panis Eucha●…st cus . Ibid. the sacramentall bread ( saith he ) expressed in those wordes . n n Vers. 51. the bread that I will giue , is my fl●sh that I will giue for the life of the world : as if this were not the same spirituall bread that hee spake of before . 4. Being pressed with this that there is no bread at all in the Eucharist o De pane quem da●u●us erat in coena . Ibid. c. 6. ( as they say ) k & therfore it cannot be the sacramentall bread that is there spoken of , neither can it bee meant of the bread that Christ was to giue in the Supper , as hee elsewhere had said : he saith that p p Non significat panem triticeum . Ibid. c. 7. bread there signifieth not wheaten bread , q q Nec corpus Christi absolutè . nor Christs body absolutely , but r r Cibum generatim . meate or food in generall : and so the sence of it is this ; The bread , that is , the meate , that I will giue , is my flesh it selfe , that is to be crucified and staine for the saluation of mankind . And he addeth that s s Pan●s , i. cibus , &c. Ibid. peraduenture our Sauiour called his flesh sometimes bread , to shew that vnder the species of bread it was to be eaten . So that all the force of Bellarmines Argument is but meerely coniecturall , and dependeth vpon a peraduenture , which hee cannot certainely auerre . But t Fortasse ideò carnem suam aliquoties panem appellauit , &c. Ibid. without all peraduenture hee affirmed before that the bread of which our Sauiour said ; u u Ioh. 6. 32. My Father giueth you the true bread from heauen ; and x x Verse 33. The bread of God is hee that came from heauen and giueth life to the world : and y y Vers. 35. I am the bread of life ; hee that commeth to mee shall neuer hunger ; and hee that beleeueth in mee shall neuer thirst : and z z Vers. 41. I am the bread that came downe from heauen : and againe , a a Vers. 48. I am the bread of life : and b b vers. 50. This is the bread that came downe from heauen , that whosoeuer eateth thereof should neuer die : and c c vers. 51. I am the liuing bread that came downe from heauen : if any man eate of this bread hee shall liue for euer : that the bread I say , of which hee said all this , was not the Encharist , or the sacramentall bread , and none of all this directly and properly concerneth it . And well may wee put it out of peraduenture , that the bread of which our Sauiour saith d d vers. 51. it is his flesh that he wil giue for the life of the world , and e e vers. 54. whosoeuer eateth of it , hath life euerlasting ; f f vers. 53. which no man also can haue without it ; is no other then that of which hee had before said , that g g vers. 35. 48. it is himselfe , and that h h vers. 33. it giueth life to the world , and i i vers. 50. 51. life euerlasting to euery one that eateth of it : the rather also for that our Sauiour himselfe so informeth vs when he saith , ( not k k Transitum facit ad panem Euchar. Bell. ibid. passing as Bellarmine would haue it from a second bread to a third , but more particularly expressing what the second bread was , and repeating more fully what before hee had said ) m m vers. 51. I am the liuing bread that came downe from heauen : 〈…〉 vers. 35 , 41 , 50. if any man eate of this bread , hee shall liue for euer : n n vers . eodem . and the bread that I will giue ( what bread , thinke we , but the same that he was euen then speaking of ? which yet was o o Bellar. vbi sup. c. 5. & 7. none of the sacramentall bread , saith Bellarmine ) is my flesh that I will giue for the life of the world . Those ensuing passages therefore are not meant of the sacramentall bread or the Eucharist , no more then the former . But leaue wee Bellarmine , and returne we to this our Defendant , whom we are principally now to deale with .

His last Argument out of Tolet is not so much for the Eucharist , as against the spirituall eating Christs flesh and drinking his blood by faith . If our Sauiour had meant nothing but that they should beleeue in him , it had been a strange course by such an obscure manner of speaking p p Ioh. 6. 66. to driue away so many that had formerly followed him and beleeued in him , without any word added that might open this darke doctrine .

To omit that here againe he departeth from Augustine , who q q Aug. in Ioa. tract. 26. saith thus expresly ; Our Lord being about to giue the holy Ghost called himself bread exhorting vs tobeleeue in him . r r Credere in eum , hoc est manducare panem viuum . For to beleeue in him is to eate that liuing bread . He that beleeueth in him feedeth on him , s s Qui credit in eum , manducat . In●…sibiliter sa●…r , quin invisibiliter renascitur : iuf us nouus in●us est : vbi novell●…r , ibi satiatur . he is fatted inuisibly , because he is inuisibly bred againe : he is there filled , where he is renewed . And again , t t Sang●… em fuderunt cum saeuire●t , biberunt cum crederent . Aug 〈…〉 Ioan. tr . 1. Saeuieutes ●ude●u●t , credentes biberunt . de temp. 74. & de verb. Dom. 59. They that shed Christs blood , drank his blood when they beleeued in him ; and u u C●edendo biberunt , quem saeuiendo fuderunt . Idem . in Ioan. tr. 8. they drank it by beleeuing in him .

1. It pleased our Sauiour sometime , as to x x Ioh. 3. 3. Nicodemus , and to y y Math 13. 10 , 13 , 14. the people oft-times , to speake things in obscure Parables , which yet to them he did not explicate . “ “ See Chrys. on Ioan. hom. 46. Nor may any taxe the wisedome of Christ without impiety for so doing . Yea * * Sic oportebat vt diceretur , quod non ab omnibus intelligeretur . Aug. in Ioan. tr. 27. so ( saith Augustine ) he spake that here which he would not haue all to vnderstand .

2. Those that went away from him vpon it , were ( as our Sauiour himselfe intimateth ) z z Reade Ioan. 6. vers. 26. 36 , 64 , 69 , 67 , 69. such as followed him onely to be fed ; and did not beleeue in him .

3. If his meaning had beene that they were to eate of his very flesh it selfe miraculously made of bread , as these men would make vs beleeue , had it not beene as obscure and as difficult for them to haue conceiued it ?

4. It is not true that our Sauiour added nothing to explicate himselfe . Augustine in the place before cited * * Exponit quomodo id fiat quod loquitut ; & quid sit manducare corpus cius & sanguinem bibere . Aug. in Ioan. tr . 26. Citante etiam Biele in Can. Iect . 36. Beda in 1 Cor. 11. & Fulbert . in excerpt . Exposuit modum attributionis & doni sui . Aug. ibid. 27. sheweth that he did . And both in the beginning , when a a Ioh. 6. 32. 33 hee first told them of this bread : and ᵈ they desired him euer to giue them of it ; he maketh them answer in these words ; c c Vers. 35. I am the bread of life : Hee that commeth to me shall neuer hunger ; and he that beleeueth in me shall neuer thirst : and in the processe of his speech againe , d d Vers. 47. Uerely , verely , I say vnto you , Hee that beleeueth in mee , hath life euerlasting : Whereby e e Iansen . harmon . cap. 59. saith Iansenius , they might well haue vnderstood , in what manner hee would giue them his flesh to eate . Who also thence gathereth ( agreeably to Augustine and other of the Ancients ) that * * Idem esse manducare se , & credere in se. Et Biel. Idem est in Christum credere , & in Christum ite : & qui credit in Christum , incorporatur Christo ; & per hoc manducat Christum . it is all one to feed on Christ , and to beleeue in him : As also in the Conclusion and shutting vp of all , when hee saw how they mistooke him : “ “ Verse 63. It is the spirit that quickneth , the flesh availeth nothing : the wordes that I speake are spirit and life . In which wordes saith f f ●ansen vbi sup. the same Iansenius ( out of Chrysostome , Theophylact , and b Vers. 34. Augustine ) hee sheweth how they should vnderstand what before he had said .

MY Aduersaries Arguments to the contrary are meerely N. P. topicall , and prooue nothing . For first it is false , that the faithfull Iewes before Christ did sacramentally receiue our Sauiour as well as we : which hee barely affirmeth and prooueth not , page 7.

Secondly , those words of Christ , Except yee eate the flesh of the Sonne of Man and drinke his blood , you shall not haue life in you ; was a precept respectiuely giuen and onely obliging such persons to an actuall receiuing of the Sacrament as they were to whom it was vttred ; such persons ( to wit ) as are by age capable of Sacramentall manducation . And surely if Christs words be onely vnderstood , as my Aduersarie would haue them , of spirituall eating Christ by faith , they must necessarily import a precept more impossible to be fulfilled by children then sacramentally to receiue him . For sooner may children receiue the Sacrament , especially drinke of the consecrated Chalice ( as anciently in the Greeke and Latine Churches they were went to doe ) then actually beleeue in him .

His next Argument pag. 8. maketh more ( if this Minister had wit to discerne the force thereof ) against his owne exposition of Christs words , then it doth against our vnderstanding of them . For as all that receiue Sacramentally Christs flesh and blood , are not saued ; no more are all that spiritually and by faith eate him . This being sufficient for the veritie of our Sauiours speeches that the Sacrament is ordained to produce those excellent and heauenly effects which Christs promises there import in the soules of such as worthily receiue it ; and such centrarily as come vnworthily thereunto receiue death and iudgement to themselues by it .

As for those few Catholike writers who haue denied Christs words in that 6. Chap. of Saint Iohn to haue beene vnderstood at all of Sacramentall manducation ; I answer , that their number is not great , and their authoritie of no weight at all against a numberlesse multitude of ancient Fathers and moderne Doctors of better note contrarily vnderstanding them ; yeelding better reasons for that their literall true explication , and easily soluing all hereticall Obiections gathered from the literall sense of our Sauiours words in that Chapter against our communion vnder one kinde and other points of Catholike doctrine . And sithence my Aduersaerie will not sticke to contemne these very Authors in their other knowne Catholike doctrines , why doth he so highly value and mainely vrge them in this opinion , wherein without any hereticall intention or obstinacie of Iudgement they differ from vs ?

§ 6. AT length he commeth to refute mine Arguments ; T. G. which he saith are topicall , and prooue nothing .

My first Argument is this :

None are saued but such as so feede on Christ , as is there spoken of . But many are saued that neuer fed on Christ in the Eucharist ; as the Fathers before Christ ; the children of the faithfull that die infants , &c. Ergò it is not spoken of the Eucharist .

To this he answereth .

1. That I barely affirme that the Iewes before Christ did sacramentally receiue Christ as well as we , but I prooue it not . It is true ; I say obiter that they fed on Christs flesh spiritually as well as we now doe : though that be no part of mine Argument . And I adde a place or two of Augustine for the proofe of it grounded on the Apostles words , 1. Cor. 10. 3 , 4. Which seeing that this shifter ouerslippeth , let him heare Bishop Iansenius himselfe ( not to goe any further ) relate a little more at large , to wit , that g g Iansen . ibid. Boni manna manducando viuificati sunt : eo quod sub visibi●● illo cibo etiam spiritualiter manducauerunt ve●um panem vitae per manna significa●um quem & nos ede●…do viuificamur . the good Iewes in the old Testament were quickned by eating of Manna , because vnder that visible foode they also spiritually did eate the true Bread of Life by Manna signified . Or if Iansenius will not serue , let him heare their great Albert ; h h Albert. Magn. de Sacram. Euchar. serm , 17 Modus manducationis triplex , Sacramentalis tantûm , spiritualis tantùm , sacramentalis & spiritualis simul . There is ( saith he ) a three-fold eating of Christ ; sacramentally onely , spiritually onely , or sacramentally and spiritually both . In the first sort * * Omnes saluandi ab origine mundi . all that euer were saued did eate : in the second sort euill Christians eate him in the Sacrament : in the third sort , good communicants onely . And againe , alleadging those words of the Apostle ; i i Idem ibid. se●m . 18 omnes ●oni veteres in Manna cibum inuisibile . n. s●… . Christum spiritu●…ter in●…exerunt , crediderunt , gustauerunt , &c. All those good Auncients in the Manna vnderstood beleeued and tasted Christ himselfe , and were thereby saued . And this no Papist ( I suppose ) will be so absurd as to deny . But this is but a by-matter , no part of the maine Argument ; and therefore I forbeare here to insist further on it .

2. That is as impossible for children to eate Christ by faith spiritually , as to receiue him sacramentally in the Eucharist .

Not to runne out into more Questions then needs must at the present , I answer :

1. Many yong ones die , though at yeeres of discretion , when in ordinary course they may well haue faith , and beleeue actually , yet ere they be admitted to the Eucharist : and yet is not their saluation at all thereby preindiced .

2. By the doctrine of their Church euen k k B●llarm . de Bapt. l. 1. c. 11. ex Concil. Tr●dent . sess. 7. can . 13. Et Biel. in Can Miss lect 36. De pueris eti●m quod spiritualiter manducant corpus Christi in susceptione baptismatis , patet de consecr. dist. 2. Quia passus Infants haue an habite of faith infused into them in Baptisme .

3. Neither is it a thing impossible for the Spirit of God by an extraordinary manner to worke faith in such infants as are to be saued dying before yeeres of discretion ; no more then it was to regenerate Iohn Baptist l l Luk. 1. 15. in his mothers wombe : of whom Gregorie therefore saith that he was m m Prius quam nasceretur renatus Gr●g . mor. lib. 3. cap. 4. new bred yet vnborne .

4. The speech is of the same latitude and extent at least with those other ; n n Ioh. 6. 47. & 3. 18. whosoeuer beleeueth in me , hath life eternall : And , o o Iohn 3. vers. 36 Whosoeuer beleeueth not in the Sonne of God . shall neuer p p ●…tam , pro viuere ; vti videre mortem pro mori . Psal. 89. vers. 48. & Iohn 8. 51. liue , but q q Ioh. 3. vers. 18. Mark . 16. vers. 16. shall be damned : and the like ; which comprehend those onely , to whom it appertaineth actually to come vnto Christ , and to beleeue in him , r r Iansen . vbi sup. saith Iansenius . And that is enough for my purpose .

§ 7. My second Argument was thus framed .

All that so feede on Christ , are eternally saued : our Sauiour so s s Ioh. 6. 50 , 51 , 58. saith .

But many feede on the Eucharist that are eternally damned .

Ergò Christ speaketh not there of orall eating in the Eucharist .

Now this Argument ( saith he ) if I had wit to discerne the force of it , maketh more against vs then against them . And why so ? Forsooth , because all are not saued that spiritually and by faith feede on Christ . This is like B●llarmines bold assertion , that t t Aliquos credentes in Christum in aeternum perire , quod ante moriantur , quam à Sacerdote absolui potuerint . Bellarm. de poenit . l 3. c. 2. some that beleeue in Christ perish eternally , because they die before they can haue a Priest to assoile them . And what is this but to say that all that doe truly beleeue in Christ are not saued ? Yea what is this ( not to repeate all the allegations both of Scripture and Fathers produced for the proofe of the Proposition , which he purposely passeth ouer , not being able to answere ) but to giue our Sauiour himselfe and the holy Ghost the lye , who so oft say ; u u Ioh. 3. 14 , 15 , 16 , 18 , 36. & 6. 47. & 7. 39. Rom. 10. 11. &c. Whosoeuer beleeueth in him shall be saued .

Nor is it sufficient ( as he addeth ) for to verifie our Sauiours speeches that the Sacrament is ordained to produce such effects in the Soules of such as worthily receiue it , though the contrary befall those that doe vnworthily rēceiue it . For ( to answer them againe in the words of one of their owne Authors ) our Sauiours words imply manifestly x x Manducationis & potus certum effectum . Iansen . concord . c. 59. a certaine effect ( as he speaketh ) not a matter that may be : ( as Augustine and Cyril also in the places cited by me there shew , ) whereupon also he concludeth that y y Hinc manife stum euadit , non omnes . &c. Idem ibid. it is apparent thence that all are not there said to eate the flesh of Christ and drinke his blood , that receiue the Sacraments of Christs body and blood .

§ 8. To their owne Authors , Cardinals , Schoelemen , Canonists , publike Professors , or Readers of Diuinity in their Vniuersities , ( a a Feius in Ioan. 6. & Mathias Doring in replic . super . Lyr. in Psal. 110. Friers I might haue said too , ) and in steed of Iesuites ( being better informed by him ) I now say , Bishops , which will not much mend the matter .

1. Hee answereth that they bee but few in number , and their authoritie of no great weight , in regard of those that hold the contrarie . Yet one of their owne Bishops ( though of an other mind himselfe ) confesseth , that there are b b Ex ipsis Catholicis perm●lti ●unt , qui totum is●um sermonem ad spiritualem manducationem referunt : Sebastian Oxoniens . Epi●c . ad part . 3. Thom. q. 76. nu. 28. very many of them that are of this iudgement . But had there beene but one or two of them ( especially of note , as some of them were ) of some one sort , it might well haue weighed much on our side . For c c 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Isidor . Pesus . ep. 228. l. 2. the witnesse of an aduersarie is of no small weight . How much more , when so many of all sorts , of so speciall repute , shall so vniformely speake for vs , and herein accord with vs ?

2. He demandeth of his Aduersarie , why he doth so highly value them and mainely vrge them herein , when in other points he will not sticke to contemne them . Had he any wit in his adle braine , he would neuer haue asked this idle Question It is as if in a Law-suite , because a man taketh hold ( as he may well doe ) of somewhat that falleth from his Aduersaries , or is granted him and confessed by them , because it furthereth his owne cause , he were therefore bound to beleeue or admit all that euer they say to the preiudice of his right . The greater differences are betweene them and vs , yea in the present controuersie concerning the manner of Christs presence in the Sacrament , the lesse cause there is to suspect that they should speake partially for vs ; and the greater cause to suppose they were by euidence of truth enforced to confesse that , that should take away some of those grounds , whereby the cause that themselues stiffely maintained , is ordinarily vpheld .

3. He addeth in the end : These men herein without hereticall intention , or obstin●cie of iudgement differed from vs . Whom he meaneth by that , Vs , I leaue to himselfe to explaine : And the lesse hereticall their intention was ( as he vnderstandeth hereticall ) the lesse suspition there is of collusion or any purpose therein to gratifie vs ; and so much the stronger therefore is their testimonie for vs . * * Confessio propria testimo●is quibusnis ; ●estesque non familiares domesticis praeferuntur . Menoch . lib. 2. a●b . cas. ●26 . & Althus . dicaeolog . l. 3. c. 45. The testimonie of a meere stranger , or no well-willer to the cause maketh it to be of more moment . But when he speaketh of obstinacie of iudgement , he glaunceth at a secret in their Church , which I shall in a word or two take occasion hereby to discouer . It is no matter what a man hold or maintaine among them , so long as he acknowledgeth the Popes Supremacie , the maine pillar of their faith , and submit himselfe and his workes wholly to his censure , and so be ready to vnsay what he saith , when he will haue him so to doe . For his censure indeede alone is that which they call commonly the censure of the Church . And to this purpose they confesse that many of their writers haue held the very same points , for which they condemne vs now as Heretikes , of whom yet they say that they were not Heretikes , because they submitted themselues to this Censure . I will adde an instance or two hereof out of Bellarmine .

1. In this very particular ; he confesseth that d d Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 1. cap. 5. many of the Authors before mentioned expound that 6. Chap. of Iohn as the Heretikes doe : but they submit themselues ( saith he ) and their writings to the Censure of the Councels and Popes ; which the Heretikes doe not .

2. In the present controuersie , Durandus held not a Transubstantiation , but a transformation in the Sacrament : e e Idem ibid. lib. 3. cap. 13. which opinion ( saith he ) is hereticall ; and yet was hee no Heretike ; because he was ready to yeeld to the iudgement of the Church .

3. Ambrose Catharines opinion of the Ministers intention in the Sacrament , differeth not ( f f Idem de Sacram . in Gen. lib. 1. cap. 27. saith he ) for ought I see , from the opinion of Chemnicius and other Heretikes , saue that he in the end of his booke submitteth himselfe to the Apostolike Sea and Councel .

4. Durandus in the point concerning merite of workes g g Idem de iustific . lib. 3. cap. 16. held as we now doe , that no reward was due to them but out of Gods meere liberalitie , and that it were temerarious and blasphemous to say , that God were vniust , if he should not so reward them : And yet was he also no Heretike for the cause before-mentioned .

And thus are we at length arriued ( after much winding to and fro , while wee follow a shifting wind ) at the end of the former part of my Discourse : wherein hath beene shewed , beside other Arguments , confirming the same , by the confession of their owne Authors , that those places of Scripture doe not enforce any such corporall presence of Christ in the Sacrament as Papists maintaine , which they commonly produce to prooue it .

Diuision 7.

PAg. 9. My Aduersarie becommeth a more formall N. P. Disputant then before : and against our Doctrines of Transubstantiation and reall presence of our Sauiour in the Sacrament ignorantly by him in many places confounded he frameth this wise Argument ;

Looke what our Sauiour tooke , that he blessed : what he blessed that he brake ; what he brake that he deliuered to his Disciples ; what he deliuered , of that he said , This is my Body :

But it was bread that he tooke :

And bread therefore that he blessed ; bread that hee brake ; and bread that he deliuered ; and bread consequently of which he said , This is my Body .

Which is a formel●sse and fallacious kinde of arguing , wholly forcelesse , if we suppose the former doctrine of the holy Fathers to be true , that Christs words haue force now as then they had , when himselfe vttred them , to change the substance of Bread and Wine into his Body and Blood : As if after the like manner of the water conuerted by Christ into wine , I should make this deduction : The Ministers drew water out of the well ; carried what they drew : therefore that which they drew and carried was water . If the Minister shall tell me , that they drew water ; but carried it made wine by our Sauiours omnipotent operation : so I will tell him , that Christ tooke bread and wine , and conuerted them by his miraculous and omnipotent benediction into his owne bodie and blood before he distributed them , as he by his plaine words pronounced of them , saying , This is my Body , &c.

HItherto , if you will beleeue this worthy Doctor , his Aduersarie hath disputed without forme or figure , T. G. that you may not maruaile why his Answer is so diffused , deformed and mis-figured ; for the fault ( it seemeth ) was in his Aduersaries mishapen Syllogismes ; which made him also so loath to meddle with any of them . Here ( he confesseth ) he becommeth a more formall Dissutant ; and I hope therefore we shall finde him a more formall Defendant .

Yet ere he come to my first Argument he must needs haue a fling at me for confounding their doctrine of Transsubstantiation and the reall presence ( corporall , hee should haue said for more perspicuitie ; for so I speake ) ignorantly the one with the other . I perceiue well what his drift herein is ; to make some beleeue that howsoeuer Transubstantiation was not generally held till of late times ; yet a reall , that is a corporall presence was euer acknowledged . But if we will beleeue Bellarmine , Aquinas , and the Councel of Trent , the one of them is euery iot as ancient as the other , yea the one cannot possibly bee without the other . h h Concil. Trident . sess. 13. cap. 4. Et idem Bellarm , de Euchar. l. 3. c. 11. This , ( the Councel of Trent telleth vs , ) was alwaies the faith of the Church , that by the consecration of Bread and Wine , the whole Substance of the Bread was turned into the Substance of Christs body , and the whole Substance of wine into his Blood . And , i i Thom. Aq. sum part 3. q. 75. art. 3. A body , ( saith Aquinas ) cannot be , where it was not before , but either by locall motion , or by the conuersion of some other thing into it . But it is manifest that Christs bodie beginneth not to bee in the Sacrament by any locall motion : And therefore it must needs come there by the conuersion of the bread into it . Yea , k k Idem ibid. art. 4. by locall motion it cannot be there , nor by any meanes but by this . And Bellarm. cleane contrary to himselfe else-where , l l Bellar. in Apolog. contr. Praefat. monitor . Reg. Iacob . c 1. It cannot be , that the words of Christ should be true , but by such a conversion and transmutation as the Catholike Church calleth Transubstantiation . It is no matter of ignorance therefore in this Controversie to confound those things , which those we deale with conioyne , yea which they tell vs cannot be dis-ioyned .

To ouerthrow this their opinion then of Transubstantiation and Christs corporall presence in the Eucharist ; I first reason from the Context , m m Mat 26 26. Mark . 14. 22. Christ tooke bread , and blessed it , and gaue it , and said ; This is my body . Whence I thus argued :

What Christ tooke , hee blessed ; what he blessed , he brake ; what he brake , he deliuered ; what he deliuered , of that he said , This is my body .

But it was bread that hee tooke , blessed , brake and deliuered ; ( n n Steph Durant . de ritib. Eccles. l. 2. c. 38. It is bread , saith Durant a Popish writer , that all those verbes are referred to . )

It was bread therefore of which he said , This is my body .

Now this ( saith mine Adversarie forgetting , it seemeth , what he had said but euen now , that heere I began to dispute formally ) is a formlesse , fallacious and wholly forcelesse kinde of arguing , if we suppose with the holy Fathers ( who belike held Transubstantiation then as well as a reall and corporall presence , if this worthy man vpon his bare word may bee beleeued ) that the substances of bread and wine were by the force of Christs wordes turned into Christs body and blood . That is , as if hee should say , this Argument is of no force at all , if the point in Question be granted , or if that be yeelded , that is not at all in the Text. Yea but this is as if a man should make the like deduction of o o Ioh. 2●… the water that Christ turned into wine ; The Ministers drew water out of the well ; carried what they drew : Therefore that which they drew and carried was water .

How formall a Disputant soeuer this mans Adversary is ; sure I am hee disputeth neither in forme nor figure . But let vs helpe him a little to bring his Argument into forme ; and then hee shall haue an Answer . Thus , it seemeth , he would argue , if he could hit on it :

What the Ministers drew out of the well , they caried :

But they drew water : Therefore they carried water .

And now I deny his Proposition : The Ministers carried not that that they drew : They drew water ; they carried not water but wine .

And for his addition hereunto , that Christ after hee tooke the bread and wine , and before hee distributed them , by his miraculous and omnipotent benediction converted them into his owne body and blood , as hee sheweth by his wordes plainely pronounced of them , This is my body . Though it be nothing to the Argument , and a meere begging of the point in Question , yet let vs consider a little of it , where in the Text hee findeth that Christ thus converted them : for the wordes , This is my body ( as was formerly shewed ) doe not euince it . But he findeth it ( it seemeth ) in the benediction or the blessing of the bread ; which is yet against the common conceite of his Associates , that say there was no conversion at all till Christ vttered those words , This is my body . Heare we Bellarmine a little p p Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 19. arguing this point against Luther . Hauing acknowledged ( as was said formerly ) that Christs words , This is my body , may beare either the sence that wee giue them , or the sense that they giue them , but not that sense , that the Lutherans giue : For ( saith hee ) the Lord tooke bread , and blessed it , and gaue it his Disciples , saying , This is my body . Bread therefore he tooke ; bread hee blessed , and of bread of he said , This is my body . Either therefore Christ by blessing changed the bread into his body truely and properly , or he changed it improperly and figuratiuely , by adding signification ( or as Theodoret rather , * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . by adding to nature that grace ) which before it had not . If hee changed it truely and properly , then gaue he bread changed , and of that bread so changed he truely said , This is my body , that is , that which is contained vnder the shape of bread is no more bread , but my body : and this we say , If it be said that he changed the bread figuratiuely , then shall there be that bread given the Apostles , that is siguratiuely Christs body , and those words , This is my body haue this sense , This is the figure of my body : and so the Protestants hold . Yea so indeede ( as you haue heard before ) did Augustine in precise tearmes after Tertullian expound them , who belike then by Bellarmines ground was in this point a Protestant . Now let either Bellarmine , or this Answerer prooue that our Sauiour by his blessing wrought any other conuersion , and wee will yeeld vnto them . But they will as soone proue that Christ turned the children that r r Mar. 10. 16. hee blessed into bread , as that he turned the bread by blessing it into his naturall bodie . Yea runne ouer all the whole Chapter in Bellarmine s s De Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 19. wherein hee propoundeth to himselfe to proue Transubstantiation out of Gods word , in the entrance whereunto hee confesseth that the words of Christ may be taken as well our way as their way , but not Luthers way ; and you shall finde that there is neuer a word in it , much lesse any sound proofe , either to prooue that Christs wordes are so to be vnderstood as they say , or that they are not to bee vnderstood as we say ; but it is wholly spent in confuting of Luthers opinion , to wit , that bread remaineth together with Christs body in the Sacrament . Which opinion also b b I indan . in di●…og . quam Ruew rd siue pacificum ins●…psit . themselues confesse that Luther admonished by Melancthon renounced before he died . Hee beginneth with c c Primum autem argumentum ducitur ex illis Domini verbis , &c. a first Argument , without any second , the summe and substance whereof was before related : Either his second ( he saw ) was vnsound , and it seemed best therefore to suppresse and conceale it , or else he wanted a second , and thought to let the first though without a fellow , stand still as first by the rule of the Ciuilians , who say , d d Primus est , quem nemo praecedit , e●iāsi nullus sequatur . Reg. Iur. That is first , that hath none before it , though no other come after it : or , that is first that hath none before it , that is last that hath none after it . And so is this Bellarmines both first and last Argument there . And e Primus est , quem nemo praecedit : vltimus , quem nemo sequitur . Ibid. in Conclusion he is faine to flie to the Councels and pretended Fachers . s s Bellar. vbi sup. in fine cap. Though there were some ambiguity ( saith hee ) in our Sauiour Christs words , yet it is taken away by Councels ; ( what Councels think we ? Surely none but such as themselues held within these 300. yeeres as himself afterward sheweth ) and the consent of Fathers : which remaineth yet to be shewed . As for the benediction , the best , nay the sole Argument , whereby hee can prooue such 〈…〉 conuersion wrought there is this ; g g Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 1. cap. 10. Christ is not wont to giue thankes but when hee is about to worke some great and maruelous thing : For he is read onely to haue given thankes , h h Ioh. 6. 11. 23. when hee would multiply the fiue loaues ; and againe i i Mat. 18. 26. when the seuen : k k Ioh. 11 41. and when hee was to raise Lazarus from the dead ; and lastly , l l Mat. 26. 27. Mar. 24 23. Luk. 22. 19. 1 Cor. 11. 24. in the institution of this Sacrament . And in like manner hee is not wont to blesse insensible things , but when he was to worke some admirable thing with them : For he is neuer read so to haue done , but m m Luh . 9. 16. Mark . 6 7. when hee blessed the bread to be multiplied ; and n n Mat. 26. 26. Mat. 14. 22. in the Encharist . As on the contrary o o Mat. 21. 19. when hee cursed the figtree : for it withered away instantly . For Gods blessing is a well-doing ; not a praying , as ours ; but an effecting , as appeareth , when p p Gen. 1. 22. hee blessed the beasts : for by that blessing hee bestowed fruitfulnesse vpon them . Nor do we reade that Christ euer blessed the water in Baptisme . And what of all this ? Therefore ( forsooth ) it must needs follow that Christ by that blessing turned the bread into his owne naturall body .

Where to omit that it is not true , that Christ is neuer read to haue giuen thankes oftner then is here said : for at q q Mat. 11 25. Luk. 10. 21. other times also hee is reported to haue r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Chrysost. in Mat. hom 38. Confiteor hic gratiarum actionem significat . Ex Beda Thom. in Luc. 10. giuen thankes , and that when hee was not about to worke any miracle neither : Nor is it truely said , that Christs blessing was not a prayer , ( which that it was , not s s Dei beneficentiam & potentiam super panem invocauit , &c. Iansen . concord . c. 131. Galat. 4. 3. Iansenius onely , but * * Sanctumque precatus . Iunenc . l. 4. i. prece Sanctificans . Maldon . in Mat. 26. Maldonat the Iesuite from some of the Ancients also confesseth ) being conceiued by him as man , but effected by him as God : and beside , that it is absurd to reason à non scripto ad non factum , hee is not read oft●er to haue blessed or given thankes , therefore hee neuer oftner did either : yea it is impious to imagine that Christ , who for our sakes made himselfe subiect to the Law , did not ordinarily t t 1 Tim. 4. 4. blesse and sanctifie the food , that he tooke commonly , by thankes-giuing and prayer : who denyeth but that Christ went about a marueilous worke , when hee was to institute this Sacrament ? or who doubteth but that Christs benediction was a most effectuall benediction , and as effectuall as that of Gods was in the Creation , whereby u u Gen. 1. 22 , 28. he blessed the creatures ? by vertue whereof yet the creatures so blessed were not transformed into new shapes , but had a naturall facultie only conferred vpon them which before they had not , nor of themselues could haue ; and so haue the elements a spirituall and supernaturall ( by our acknowledgement ) in the Sacrament . But who seeth not what a silly and senselesse consequence this is ? Bellarmine could not be so silly and sottish as not to see it himselfe . Christ gaue thankes and blessed the bread ere hee gaue it : therefore hee wrought such a miracle on it as wee would haue ; or , therefore ( if you will ) he turned it into the very substance of his body . It may as well bee said that Samuel wrought some miracle by x x 1 Sam. 9. 13 ▪ blessing the sacrifice , as our Sauiour here by blessing the bread .

For the water in Baptisme it is easie to answer , though it be little to the purpose : It is not to bee maruelled if hee be not read to haue blessed it : for we are told expresly that y y Ioh. 4. 2. he neuer baptised , saue as he doth . z z Ioh. 1. 33. spiritually baptise to this day . But dare any say that his Disciples were so prophane as to baptise without blessing ? or must a bald , yea a Baals Priests blessing of bread at this day be needes more effectuall then their blessing of water then was ? Or doe not e e Tertul. de bapt. H●eron . ad Ocean . de bapt. Episc. Ambrosium quem volunt esse de initiat . c. 3. the ancient Fathers compare the blessing of the water and the effect thereof in Baptisme with the blessing of the waters and “ “ Gen. 1. 〈…〉 ▪ the moouing of the Spirit vpon them in the Creation ? And why must the blessing then of necessity import such a change more in the one Sacrament then in the other ?

Diuision 8.

AS for the names of bread and wine after giuen by Saint Paul and the holy Fathers to the consecrated parts of N. P. the Sacrament ; which with this Minister is a great argument tediously vrged , page 10. hee cannot be ignorant ( I suppose ) as not to conceiue the little sorce of the Argument . For if Aarons red after it was conuerted into a Serpent , and retained not the essence or figure of a rod , bee notwithstanding called so ; with much more reason may the Accidents of bread and wine still remaining and containing in them Christs body and blood , retaine their old names : especially with articles superadded , importing the singular and diuine excellency of them , still vsed by Saint Paul , 1 Cor. 10 , 11. as this bread , this Chalice ; the bread which wee breake , &c. willing them to prooue themselues , &c. before they come to eate of this bread ; least eating it vnworthily , they eate their owne damnation , not discerning the body of Christ ; or ( which is all one ) not distinguishing it from other common bread , it being indeed bread blessed and conuerted into the very body of Christ , and therefore not irreuerently and vnworthily to be receiued by any Christian vnder paine of damnation ; as the ancient Doctor and holy Mariyr of Christs Church a a S. Cyprian serm. 5. S. Cyprian affirmeth : b b S. Basil. l. 2. de bapt. c. 3. S. Basil also , c c S. Chrysost. hom 24. in 1. ad Corinth . & hom. 83. in Mat. & hom. 45. in Joan. S. Chrysostome , d d S. Ierom. in 〈…〉 . cap. Malac. S. Ierome , e e Origen in Psal. 37. Origen , and f f S. Aug. l. 5. de bapt. c. 8. & l , 8. contr. Crescon . c. 25. S. Augustine , with other Fathers express●ly teach the sinne of such as come vnworthily to the Sacrament to be haynous , and equall even to the sinne of such as betrayed and killed Christ , because they presume vnworthily to eate that bread wherein the Son of God himselfe is contained .

MY second Argument was taken from the expresse T. G. words of Scripture , wherein after Consecration there is said to be bread and wine in the Sacrament .

1. The little force of this Argument ( hee saith ) I cannot be so ignorant as not to conceiue : because Aarons rod after it was conuerted into a Serpent , and retained not the essence or figure of a rod , yet was notwithstanding so called , &c. And hee cannot bee so ignorant as not to conceiue that this very Obiection is there by me propounded and answered : yea , and that Bellarmine himselfe reiecteth it as g g Haec solutio non videtur solidissima . Bellar. de Euchar . l. 1. c. 14. not very sound , but such as iust exception may be taken vnto . Did hee thinke that any one not voyd of common sense would not soone see this ?

2. He saith that the accidents of bread and wine remaining retaine still their old names . To what purpose ? For who doubteth but that the accidents , that is , the colour , sauour , shape , sise , &c. of the elements , remaine still in the Eucharist , not without a subiect , as they say , ( for how can accidents so do , when the very * * Accidentis esse est messe . essence of an accident , as it is an accident , is to be in some subiect ? ) but in the selfe same subiect , wherein formerly they were ? And what should hinder but that remaining so , they should retaine still their old names ? But neither are the accidents of bread and wine , bread and wine : and it is absurd to say either that the Apostle by bread meant the accidents of bread onely ; when he said '' '' 1 Cor. 10. 16. The bread which wee breake , &c. and , “ “ 1 Cor. 11. 28. Let a man eate of that bread , &c. Or that by the fruit of the vine our Sauiour meant nothing but the acci dents of wine , when hee said , * * Mat. 26 , 29 , I will drinke henceforth no more of this fruit of the vine , &c. So that his reason is ●idiculous , The accidents remaining retaine still their old names ; therefore the substance that is gone retaineth it owne name still : or , the colour , savour shape and sise retaine their old names , and that which is in the Eucharist what euer it be , is said still to be white , round , thin well tasted , &c. and that with good reason , since it is so still as it was ; therefore though it be no more bread now , yet is it said to be so still . Sure reason and this mans braine were farre asunder , when he writ this .

3. He addeth that the Apostle when hee calleth it bread , ( for so I suppose he would say , and not when he speaketh of the accidents of bread onely ) speaketh with such articles superadded , as may note the singular and divine excellency of it , This bread , and so This Chalice , and The bread which we breake : and requireth men to examine themselues before they come there : least they sinne in not distinguishing it from other common bread , &c. And that the ancient Fathers shew what an horrible sinne it is to come vnreuerently to it , &c. because they presume to eate that bread , wherein the Son of God himselfe is contained .

And is not this a most silly Argument to prooue that that hee should prooue , vnlesse you take in withall his ly at the last , where he saith that the Sonne of God himselfe is contained in the bread , which hee falsely also fathereth vpon those Fathers , as would haue appeared , had hee cited their wordes ; and which being the point in Question ( had it beene propounded as it should haue beene ) vnlesse you grant him hee sticketh fast still and cannot goe forward ? For may not a man say as much of Baptisme , that the holy Ghost speaks of it with such h h Rom. 6. 4. Col. 2. 12. Tit. 3. 5. Gal. 3. 27. elogies superadded , as may note the singular & diuine excellency of it ; that those therefore that are of yeeres i i See Bellar. de bapt. l. 1. c. 25. ought with great care to addresse and prepare themselues vnto it , when they are to be baptised , and that those that distinguish it not from ordinary water , or vse it irreuerently , commit an hainous sinne euen against Christ himselfe ? And yet who euer dreamed therefore of any such Transubstantiation in Baptisme ? yea the very same Authours here produced by him so plentifully ( though by their bare names onely out of Bellarmine ) in a point for the generall not at all denied , to wit the hainousnesse of their sinne that abuse this Sacrament : yet distinguish expressely some of them ( as in mine allegations I haue noted ) betweene the bread of the Lord , ( as k k 1. Cor. 11. 27. the Apostle tearmeth it ) and the Bread the Lord ; of which l l Ioh. 6. 32 , 33. our Sauiour in the Gospel ; betweene the body that was on the Crosse , and the bread that is on the bord : Which he taketh no notice of .

4. And yet neither is it true that so confidently here he affirmeth , that all those Fathers in all those places , yea or that any one of them , in any one of those places that he quoteth , ( nor as I verily beleeue , in any place of their writings else-where ) doe ( as he saith ) expressely and purposely teach that the sinne of vnworthy receiuers is equall ( for the hainousnesse of it ) with the sinne of those that betraied and killed Christ . Which no sober Diuine will say ; nor can it be iustified , vnlesse the Stoicall paritie of sinnes ( charged m m Aug. de haeres . c. 82. vpon Iouinian by some , n n Nihil enim eiusmodi I●●uiniano Hieronymus obiicit . how truly I know not , o o Campian rat . 8. Sed & ●occius idem ferè , Thes. Cathol. tom. 1. l. 8. art. 3. vpon vs by some of their side , falsely I am sure , p p Lutherani non dicunt paria esse peccata . Bellarm. de Iustif. l. 3. c. 16. Bellarmine himselfe therein acquitting vs ) be in Theologie admitted . Bellarmine indeede q q De Euchar. l. 1. c. 13. in the Chapter , whence he tooke all these quotations as he found them there mustered together , hath somewhat out of Oecumenius that may seeme to looke that way , ( r r Oecum . comparat indignè communicantes cum eis qui Christum crucifixerunt . He compareth vnworthy communicants , saith he , with those that killed Christ ) which this man hauing strained more then an inch further , ascribeth vnaduisedly and vntruly to them all . Whereas onely Basil ( if those ascetica at least be his ) and Chrysostome , ( who is wont to presse farre in reproouing of sinne ) the one of them willeth vs to repaire holily to Gods bord , least we incurre the iudgement of them that killed Christ : the other of them in one of the places there quoted saith , that as those that defile the princes robe are t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. Chrysost. in Ioan. hom. Grae. 46. Lat. 45. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 vel vt alii , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; punished in like manner , as those also that rend it ; so it is u not vnlikely or vnequal that those that with an vnholy heart receiue the Lords body , vndergoe x x 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the same punishment with those that tore it with nailes ; that is , that the one be damned for so doing as well as the other ; which may well 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Basil de bapt. l. 2. c. 3. be , albeit their sinnes be not equall . The rest of them , to wit , Origen , Hierome and Augustine haue not any one word at all in any of all those places of the sinne of those that killed Christ ; yea the places well weighed vtterly ouerthrow the ground of that y y Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 1. c. 13. Argument , which from the words of the Apostle , and their application of it , they would frame to prooue a reall and essentiall presence of Christs naturall body and blood in the Eucharist , because such vnworthy receiuers are said to be a a 1. Cor. 11. 27. guilty of wronging Christs body and blood , and thereby b b Ibid. ●9 . to acquire iudgemen● c De baptism . l. 5 c. 8. Vide & eundem contra Faust. l. 19. c. 11 , 12. or condemnation to themselues . For beside that in the one place Augustine saith nothing but this , that the Sacrament of Baptisme , as well as that other of the Eucharist , is a true Sacrament euen to those that vse it otherwise then they ought : which is nothing at all to that for which here it is alleadged . In d d Contra Crescon . l. 1. c. 25 , 26. the other place he saith nothing of the Eucharist , but what he saith also both of e e Rom. 7. 7. 13. 1 Cor. 8. 1. the Word of God , or the Law , and Baptisme expressely in the same place ; to wit , that euen f f Obsunt sancta & diuina malè vtentibus . holy and diuine things hurt those that vse them otherwise then they ought . Yea Hierome goeth further in the place alleadged , and g In Malac. 1. applieth what he speaketh not to the Sacraments onely of the New Testament , but to the Sacrifices also ( which were Sacraments too ) of the old . For commenting on those words , h h Malac. 1. 7. Wherein doe we pollute thee ? i i Dum Sacramenta violantur , ipse cuius sunt Sacramenta violatur . When the Sacraments ( saith he ) are violated , he is violated whose Sacraments they are . And that is all he saith there . Now were not the k k Colos. 2. 17. Heb. 10. 1 , 〈…〉 ▪ 10. & 13. 11 , 12. Talium figurarum obseruatio , Christi fuit praefiguratio . Aug. ad Faust. l. 19. c. 11. Sacrifices and the Sacraments of the old Testament ( as the ˡ Paschall Lambe at least ) Sacraments of Christ , yea * * Heb. 10. 10. & 9. 7 , 11 , 12. and of his body and blood too ? If they were , as no doubt can be but they were , then by Hieromes Rule was Christ and his body and blood wronged in them , when any wrong was done to them , albeit it were not essentially or corporally present in them : nor doth such wrong therefore or guilt acquired by euill vsage of the Eucharist imply any such corporall presence thereof in it .

5. Let me adde onely , that this Defendant telleth vs , ●hat the Sonne of God is contained in that bread that is eaten ●n the Eucharist : and yet by their doctrine there is no bread at all there . How is he in bread where no bread is ? Or how is there no bread there , where in bread the Sonne of God is ( as he telleth vs ) conteined ? What is this but that which Bellarmine condemneth in the Lutherans , to forge vs m m Christum impanatum . Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 3. c. 11. a Christ impanated , or enclosed in bread ? Nor doth their owne doctrine any whit mend the matter . For as Bellarmine saith of Rupert us and some others that they make Christ haue n n Corpus panaceum , non carneum . Ibid a breaden body : so may wee as truly say the same of them . For what is a body made of bread but a breaden Body ? But that ( you see ) this Doctor here swarueth from and saith , that Christs body is but couched in Bread .

ANd I maruaile not to finde this Minister to corrupt the sayings of the holy Fathers to his hereticall purpose , sithence N. P. he maketh Bellarmine himselfe page 10. to speake like a Protestant , and seeme to say against his owne expresse doctrine , that the bread blessed and consecrated on the Altar is not , nor cannot be called Christs body : Whereas Bellarmine onely disputeth against Luther teaching naturall bread to remaine still in the Sacrament , and making the sense of Christs words , This is my body , to be the same as if he had said , This bread is my body ; saith this and no more , that Naturall bread cannot be otherwise then figuratiuely and significantly affirmed to be Christs body : Speaking not at all of bread consecrated , and by consecration conuerted into the true body of Christ , yet still retaining the name of bread for the Accidents of bread still remaining , as this false fellow would haue ; frequently citing Authors which he vnderstandeth not .

§ 2. ANd here againe , as one running the wild goose T. G. race , he windeth backe to a passage in the former Argument : and saith , he marueileth not to finde me corrupt the sayings of the Fathers ( he thought sure euery one would beleeue whatsoeuer he said , though he neuer assaied to shew it ) since I make Bellarmine himselfe speake like a Protestant . No : I make him speake nothing but what o o De Euchar. lib. 1. cap. 1. hee saith of himselfe : and by his owne graunts prooue that either the auncient Fathers spake very absurdly , or else they ment as we meane . The Argument is this :

The ancients Fathers say oft , that the Bread in the Eucharist is Christs body .

But this saying ( saith Bellarmine , ) This bread is my body , must either be taken figuratiuely , or else it is absurd and impossible .

The Fathers therfore when they vsed such speeches , shewed euidently thereby that they ment as we meane , ( that is , they vnderstood Christs words figuratiuely ) or else ( by Bellarmines confession ) they spake very absurdly .

Nor is it enough to prooue that I corrupt Bellarmine , to say that he disputeth in that place against Luther , who taught that bread remained still in the Sacrament : For what is that to the purpose ? much lesse to say vntruly , that he spake not of bread consecrated ; when the very Question is there concerning the consecrated bread .

But I cite Authors ( he saith ) that I vnderstand not . It is true indeede ; In this very place I cite some sayings of Bellarmine , that neither I , nor any such dull-heads as I am ( I thinke ) can easily vnderstand ; as for example , where p p De Euchar. l 3. c. 24. he saith , as I here cite him , that The Priest maketh Christs body of bread ; and yet Christs body is not made by the Priest : And againe , q q Ibid. that the body of Christ that was crucified , was truly or verily made of Bread : And yet confuting Rupertus he saith else-where , that r r De Euchar. l. 3. c. 11. it was not a breaden body that was crucified for vs ; as Tertullian inferred from the doctrine of the Marci●nites ; and as we may well inferre from theirs . He waiueth s s De Euchar. l. 3. c. 9. else-where Metaphysicall subtilties in disputing of this Sacrament . And t t Inepta Caluini Metaphysica . Idem de Euchar. l. 1. c. 10. taxeth Caluine for his fond and foolish Metaphysicks . But these are such transcendent subtilties , if not absurdities , as any Metaphysicks will afford . And this deepe Metaphysicall Doctor , that hath no want of wit , and vnderstandeth him so well , should haue done well to vnfold to vs these mysteries , and arreade vs these riddles : whereas he very vncharitably passeth them by , and onely controlling vs for our ignorance , leaueth vs sticking still in the bryers with them , not vouchsafing to helpe vs out .

PAg. 12. He affirmeth it to be most absurd to affirme , as N. P. we doe , that a thing is made of that in the roome whereof it onely succeedeth , or is turned into that which succeedeth onely in the roome thereof ; Whereas in euery substantiall conuersion one substance is destroied and another succeedeth in the place thereof by the same action : as where wood is conuerted into fire , &c. The difference betwixt Transsubstantiation in the Sacrament , and other substantiall naturall conuersions chiefely consisting in this , that the whole substance of bread passeth into another praeexisting substance , Christs body , to wit , introduced in place thereof , so as nothing thereof remaineth ; whereas in them the same matter , albeit receiuing a new forme and so made a distinct substance from what it was before , still remaineth : which is to the Ministers purpose wholly impertinent , vnlesse hee will falsely and foolishly withall affirme that God can destroy no substance intirely leauing the Accidents thereof still remaining , to introduce an other substance in place thereof .

And albeit we cannot say of Christs body , that it was bread , ( which is another Argument of the Minister , ibidem ) yet may it be said to haue beene of bread , as being by the same miraculous and omnipotent power of Christs words , whereby bread looseth naturall being in place thereof Sacramentally produced and made present . And this is without any difficultie affirmed by vs , who know the same in a propertionable manner to be found in all other substantiall and accident all conuersions , howsoeuer his poore Iudgement will not serue to consider it : heate ( for example ) was neuer cold , albeit in place thereof produced ; fire was neuer wood , but as a substance ( as naturall vnderstanding might teach him ) essentially different , and produced by the others destruction .

§ ▪ 3. AFter he hath thus recoiled back a little , now he T. G. beginneth to make againe forward . And 1. wheras they not knowing wel how to salu or shift of such absurdities as follow necessarily vpon this their senselesse conceit of the conuersion of bread into Christs body , affirme that Christs body is therefore said to be made of bread , and the bread said to be turned into Christs body , because the bread ceasing to be there , Christs body ( as they say ) doth onely come in the roome of it : For they dare not say that Christs body is produced of it , or that the Substance of the bread is that whereof as the materiall cause Christs body is framed , as ashes are made of wood , or glasse of some ashes : And I thereupon reply , that it is absurd to say that a thing is made of that in the roome whereof it onely succeedeth , or is turned into that that succeedeth onely in the roome thereof . ( That which u u Suarez in Thom. part. 3. quaest. 75. disp. 50. sect 5. Per ●olam actionem adductivam . non explicatur vera conuersio substantialis , sed solum translocatio quaedam . Quando vna substantia solum succedit loco alterius , non potest dici vna conuerti in aliam , Ibid. Suarez himself also confesseth to be rather a translocation , then a transubstantiation , or a true & substantiall conuersion . He telleth me , that , if my poore iudgement would serue to consider it , such a succession is to be found in euery subst●ntiall conuersion , whereby one substance is destroyed , and another succeedeth in the roome of it . ) And consequently ( for that or nothing must follow ) that it is not absurd so to say . Did euer man ( thinke we ) either sober or in his right wits thus reason ? In euery substantiall conuersion one thing succeedeth in the roome of another , and is turned into it . Therefore whatsoeuer thing doth succeede onely in the roome or place of another , is conuerted into it . Suppose a puppy should get vp into the Chaire that this Disputant had sat in when he writ this discourse , after he quitted it : would he not take it euill , if a man should say therefore that he were turned into a puppy , because the puppy were got into his place . Or suppose some light-fingred person hauing pickt his purse and taken a piece of gold or two out of it , should put in a copper counter or two in the roome of it ; would it follow that his gold were really turned into copper , because the one is gone , and the other is come in the roome of it ? Or suppose an old house pulled or burnt downe , and an other raised vp againe in the roome of it , and that iust of the same proportion with it : would any man say , that the one were turned into the other , because the one succeeded in the roome of the other being destroied ? But idle and absurd consequences are no strange matters with this Disputant for all his great learning , that which a little learning will serue to discouer .

2. Whereas answering that silly shift of theirs , that Christs body is called bread still after Consecration , as Aarons rod is called a rod after it was turned into a Serpent , because it had sometime so beene ; I say ( among many other things , which he here ouerslippeth ) that the case , by their owne confession , is not alike : for that , of the rod it may be said that it was once a Serpent , but of Christs body it cannot be said that euer it was bread ; he replieth ; that albeit we cannot say of Christs body that euer it was bread , no more then of heate that euer it was cold , nor of fire we can say that euer it was wood , though by the others destruction it be in place thereof produced , Yet it may be said to haue bin of bread ; because in this their prodigious y y Transformatio . Metamorphosis or z z Transmateriatio . methyleosis , or what euer you will tearme it ; ( for new inuentions require new names ) the whole substance ( to vse his owne tearmes ; that is both the matter and forme ) of bread passeth into a praeexistent substance , to wit , Christs body , in the roome of it introduced , so as nothing thereof remaineth , whereas in other naturall conuersions the matter remaineth still , though receiuing another forme . In which few lines it is not easie to tell how many contradictions are implied both to his master Bellarmines doctrine , and to his owne assertions .

For first , If it cannot be said of Christs body that euer it was Bread ; here is it affirmed by them , as a a Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 1. c 14. Bellarmine himselfe also acknowledgeth , that b b Vocari panem , quia auteà suit panis . Christs body is therefore called Bread , because it was bread before . Neither doth Bellarmine at all controle them therein : yea c c De Euchar. l. 3. c. 18. he confesseth , d d In Thom. p. 3 q. 75. a. 4. with Caietan , that it may truly be said , e e Quod fuit panis , nunc est corpus Christi . That is now Christs body , that once was bread .

2. If it may be said to haue beene of bread , why may it not be said that once it was bread ? as of Adam because he was f f Gen. 2. 7. 1. Cor. 15. 47. of the earth , it may truly be said that once g g Gen. 3. 19. hee was earth . As for his instances , they are idle : the one is of an accident not made of , but succeeding onely in the roome of another , or in the same subiect whence it hath expelled the other ; and for the other we may say truly that a fire made of wood , not onely was wood once , but is wood still , till the forme of the wood be vtterly destroied , and the wood turned into coales , or dissolued into ashes ; whereof we may also truly then say , that those coales or those ashes were once wood ; in such sense as they say , that the rod was sometime a snake .

3. If it may at any time be said , Christs body hath beene of bread , it might at sometime be said , Christs body is of bread : and if of bread , why not h h Corpus panaceum . a breaden body ? which yet i i Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 3. c. 15. Bellarmine will by no meanes admit . For what is a body of bread ( as was said before ) but a breaden body , as a pot of earth , an earthen pot , a dish of wood , a wooddendish ? &c.

4. Not to demand if nothing remaine of the bread , what figure , and colour , and weight , and taste it is that we discerne in the Eucharist , whither the breads or Christs bodie ; because for those things they tell vs that they hang , I know not how nor where , neither in the bread that now is not , nor in Christs body neither , * * Neque enim potest verè dici , hoc album & rotundum est corpus Christi . Bellarm. de Euch. l. 3. c 19. the accidents whereof they are not : and in that answer we must rest ( though it be hard for any man indued with reason so to doe ) for them ; since no other from them can be had : I aske , if the whole substance of the bread be vtterly abandoned , so as nothing thereof remaineth ; how saith k k Panis in Eucharistia verè non annihilatur . Bellarm. ibid. Bellarmine , and l l Quod panis substantia in nihilum vertatur , nemo dicit . Roffens . contr. Occolamp . lib. 2. c. 14. other of them , that the bread is not annihilated , or m m We doe not say that the substance of bread is cleerely consumed to nothing ; as many haue dreamed , Harding ag . Apolog. part. 2. is not cleerely brought to nothing ? and checke vs for n n Idem ibid. belying them when we say that any such thing is maintained by them ? albeit their great o o Vel in praeiacentem materiam solui , vel in nihilum redigi . Lombard . sent. l. 4. d. 11. D. Master of the Sentences say as much . For how is it not annihilated , if nothing remaine of it ?

5. If no bread bee left in the Eucharist , how said hee before , that Christ is there contained in bread ; and that the ancient Fathers so affirme ? For how can hee be contained in that that is not ?

6. If the whole substance of it be destroyed so that nothing remaineth of it , how doth the whole substance of it passe ( as hee saith ) into Christs body ? For how can that passe into it , that is not at all ? Or how can that substance passe into the substance of some other thing , that vtterly perisheth and ceaseth to be , so soone as euer that other substance approacheth ?

7. If the very substance of bread passeth into the substance of Christs body , then Christs body ( belike ) doth not barely succeed in the roome of it , ( as before was affirmed ) but is produced therefore and consisteth of it , which yet p p Non est producti●a , sed adducti●a cō-uersio . Bellar. de Euchar. l. 3. c. 18. they vsually deny . Else how doth the substance of the one passe into the substance of the other ?

8. If the whole substance of bread ( that is , both matter and forme ) passeth into Christs body , why may it not as wel be said of Christs body , that that body was once bread ; as of q q Exod. 4. 3. Moses his rod it might well bee said , that that rod was once a Snake ; or of r r Ioh. 2. 9. the wine that our Sauiour so miraculously produced , that that wine was sometime water ? the rather since that but part of the substance , to wit , the matter onely of the Snake and the water passed into the substance of the rod and the wine there , whereas the whole substance ( as this fellow beareth vs in hand ) that is , both matter and forme of bread , passeth into Christs body here .

9. To say that one substance passeth into another substance preexisting ; is to say , that that is made , that already is , or that is produced and hath beeing giuen it , that is in beeing already , when as a thing cannot be in making and beeing at once ; nor can beeing be giuen to that , that already is ; or to say , that a creature is now s s Actum agere . Cic. de amic . made , that was fully made before , or that a creature that was before is new made of that that before was not it : Yea ( to speake more plainely ) it is all one to as say , that a man is t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Sophocl . Antig. killed , when hee was dead before ; or is quickened when 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Chrysost. in Mat. hom. 83. An ignoras nudum nec à decem palaestritis despoliari posse ? Apul . metam . l. 1. Itaque maximas nugas agit , Nudo detrahere vestimenta qui iubet . Plaut. Asin. 1. 1. hee was aliue before ; or is now stript , when hee was starke naked before , or is now bred or begotten , when he was borne before .

Lastly , to say that Christs body long before preexisting is now made of bread that some two or three dayes past had no existence it selfe , is all one as to say , that wine of a twelue-month old is made of grapes that were but yesterday gathered and pressed , and were yet growing the day before ; or that an Oke hauing stood vpward of an hundred yeeres , and yet standing in the Forrest is sprung vp this yeere of an acorne of the last yeares growth . And consider wee now how well these things agree together : The body of Christ is contained in the bread ; and yet there is no bread at all in the Eucharist : The body of Christ succeedeth onely in the roome of bread ; and yet the substance of the bread passeth into the substance of Christs body : The whole substance of bread is so abolished that nothing remaineth of it , and yet the whole substance of the same bread passeth into the substance of Christs body : Christs body was in beeing before : and yet it is now made of another substance that before it was not : yea Christs body that was bread and borne aboue a thousand yeeres since , is now made of a wafer-cake of yesterdayes baking : The whole essence of that wafer cake passeth into Christs body ; and yet wee cannot say of Christs body , that euer it was that wafer-cake . But like x x 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . v●l . ar●…a fine calce . ropes of sand ( as wee are wont to say ) doe these things hang together : and to spend much time in refuting them may be deemed ( I feare ) as y y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Dionys de diuin nomin. c. 8. ridiculous , ( to vse their Dennis his tearmes ) as to stand seriously and curiously pulling downe by piece-meale such castles as little children haue in sport built vp of sand .

NEither is it a good or Christian kinde of Argument N. P. which my Adversary in the end of the same 12. page to this purpose maketh ; Other substantiall conversions are sensible and easily discerned , albeit miraculous , as when Aarons rod was made a Serpent , &c. Wheras in the Sacrament we see wholly the contrary : therefore we are not to beleeue therein any such conversion ; citing thus for proofe thereof a place of S. Augustine in his margent , which directly if hee had marked it , overthroweth his owne doctrine , and purpose of citing it : That which you see ( saith this Father ) is bread and a Cup : but that which your faith requireth you to be enformed of , is , that the bread is Christs body , and the Cup his blood . Could hee affirme any thing more plainly against this Ministers sensuall and absurd Argument ; which were it good , would lead vs to beleeue nothing ; g g Ad Heb. 11. faith being onely of things which appeare not to our vnderstanding or senses . How farre is this carnall , poore , vnlearned man from the holy Fathers spirit and doctrine , as I haue formerly cited their assertions ? wherein they teach vs to renounce the naturall iudgement of our vnderstanding and senses , and with the Apostle to captivate our vnderstandings to the obedience of faith in this and many other mysteries of faith , humbly to bee vpon the warrant of Gods word assented vnto , and not ouer-curiously searched after by vs . h h Lib. 8. Trin. We are ( saith S. Hillarie , that great Doctor of Christs Church , and victorious Champion of his deity ) not to dispute ( as my Adversarie doth ) in a secular and sensuall manner of diuine things . For of this naturall veritie of Christ in vs ( speaking of the Sacrament ) vnlesse we learne of Christ himself , we speake foolishly and impiously . Wherefore sithence hee saith , i i Ioh. 6. 55 , 56. My flesh is truely food , and my blood is truely drinke : Hee that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , remaineth in mee and I in him : there is no place of doubting left concerning the verity of Christs body and blood . For now by the profession of our Lord and faithfull beleefe which we haue thereof , it is his true flesh and blood : and these being receiued by vs do make vs to be in Christ and Christ in vs . Is not this truth ? Surely it is ; but to those that deny Iesus Christ to be true God , &c. With a cloud of such ancient and vncontrollable Testimonies of the holy Fathers formerly touched could I confound my sensuall Adversary , and teach him a new manner of disputing of these heauenly and diuine Mysteries instituted by the Sonne of God with equall wisedome power and goodnesse for vs ; wherein the omnipotency of him that chiefly doth them is to be assigned for a sufficient reason of them .

§ 4. NOw further , whereas I alleadge among other things that in euery miraculous conversion of bodies T. G. there is a sensible change ; whereas no such thing at all is found in the Sacrament : Our eyes , saith Augustine , informe vs that it is bread that is there . He telleth me , this is no good , nor Christian , but an absurd , secular , and senslesse arguing , and such as would leade vs to beleeue nothing but what we see : and that Augustine , if I had marked him , whom I cite in the margent , ( as if his very wordes were not in the text ) vtterly ouerthroweth it : as also Hillarie and other Fathers , when they teach vs in diuine mysteries to renounce the naturall iudgement of our vnderstanding and senses , which this poore , carnall , vnlearned man his Adversarie is so farre from , &c. And withall as commiserating and bewailing my simplicity , ( Oh how farre is this poore &c. ) He telleth his Reader , that he could with a cloud of such ancient and vncontrolleable testimonies of the holy Fathers confound this his sensuall Adversarie , and teach him a new manner of disputing of these heauenly and divine mysteries . Wel , when he doth this , you may beleeue that he can doe it : and his poore puny Adversary shall be eternally obliged to him for it . But meane while let vs see what Pyrgopolinices here saith .

1. Augustine telleth vs that something is seene in the Sacrament , and something else is to bee belieued . But doth Augustine tell vs that wee must not beleeue that there is bread there , though our eyes informe vs , that there is ? No : He telleth vs expressely , that there is bread there , as our eyes doe informe vs . And what can be more euidently or plainely spoken ? Yea but hee addeth withall , that our faith informeth vs that the bread is Christs body . Yea but , saith Bellarmine , that sentence is most absurd and impossible , if it be not meant figuratiuely . In which manner Augustine ( as before was shewed ) expoundeth himselfe else-where .

2. Doe the Fathers tell vs that in this holy Mystery we must not so much regard what our sense informeth vs , as what our faith apprehendeth ? And doe they not say the same of Baptisme , and of all mysteries or Sacraments in general ? Heare we one or two of them speake for all . The Fathers of the Nicene Councell , whom before he alleaged : * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Gelas. Cyzic . act . Conc. Nic. diatyp . 4. Our Baptisme ( say they ) must not with bodily eyes be considered , but with spirituall . Seest thou water ? vnderstand the power of God hidden in it : conceiue it full of the holy Ghost , “ “ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ibid. and diuine fire . And then wil they the same regard to be had also at the Lords Table . That Ambrose that this Author and his Associates so oft cite , as making so much for them : t t Ambrosii nomine de sacram . l. 1. c. 2 , 3. & de initiand . c. 3. You are come ( saith hee ) to the Font : consider what you there saw ; consider what you said , &c. You saw the Font ; you saw water , &c. you saw all that you could see with your bodily eyes and humane aspect . You saw not those things that worke and are not seene . The Apostle hath taught vs that wee are to behold not the things that are seene , but the things that are not seene . For farre greater are the things that are not seene , then those that are seene . Beleeue not thy bodily eyes alone . That is better seene that is not seene . So Gregory Nyssene : u u Greg. Nyss. de sacr. bapt. Both the spirit and water concurre in Baptisme . And as man consisteth of two parts , so are there medicines of like like appointed for either : for the bodie water that appeareth and is subiect to sense ; for the soule the spirit that cannot bee seene , nor doth appeare , but is called by faith , and commeth in an ineffable manner . Yet the water that is vsed in Baptisme , addeth a blessing to the Body baptised . Wherefore doe not contemne the divine Laver : neither make little account of it as common , because of the water that is vsed in it . For it is a greater matter that it worketh : and marueilous effects proceed from it . And a little after of the Eucharist : y The bread also is at first common bread : but Idem ibid. when the Mystery hath sanctified it , it is called Christs body . And in like manner the wine , though it be a thing of small price before the blessing , yet after the sanctification which proceedeth from the Spirit , both of them worke excellently . And so in many other things , if you regard it , you shall see the things that appeare to be , contemptible ; but the things wrought by them , to be great and admirable . And so Chrysostome speaking of those wordes of our Sauiour , a a Ioh. 6. 63. The wordes I speake are spirit and life . b b Chrysost. in Ioan. hom. 46. Lat. 47. Graec. To vnderstand ( saith hee ) things carnally , is to consider the things simply as they are spoken , and no otherwise . Where as * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. all mysteries ( and then not the Eucharist onely ) are to bee iudged not by the externall things that are visible , but are to be considered with the inward eyes , that is , spiritually . And in particular of Baptisme c c Idem in 1. Cor. hom. 7. else-where : The Gospell is called a mystery , because we beleeue not in it what we see ; but wee see somethings , and beleeue other things . * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . For that is the nature of our mysteries : which my selfe therefore and an Infidell are diversly affected with , &c. Hee when hee heareth of a Laver , thinketh it but bare water : but I consider not the thing seene simply , but the purging of the soule by the Spirit , &c. For I iudge not the things that appeare by my bodily sight , but with the eyes of my minde . Againe , I heare Christs body . I vnderstand the thing spoken one way , and the Infidell another . And as children or vnlettered persons , when they looke on bookes , know not the power of the letter , nor know what they see : but a skilfull man can finde matter in those letters contained , liues , or stories and the like , &c. d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . So it is in this mystery : the Infidels , though hearing , seeme not to heare ; but the faithfull hauing spirituall skill , see the force of the things therein contained . Nothing then in this kinde is said of the Eucharist , but what is said of all Sacraments , and of Baptisme by name . Nothing therefore that argueth any miraculous change more in the one then in the other .

Nor doth it follow that we would haue men to beleeue nothing but what they see , because we refuse to beleeue that that we see is not so . e e Tertul. de anima . cap. 7. Non licet nobis in dubium sensus revocare : ne & Christo de fide eorum deliberetur . &c. We may not ( saith Tertullian ) call in question our senses ; lest in so doing we detract credit from Christ himselfe , as if he might be mistaken when f f Luk. 10. 18. hee sawe Sathan fall downe , or g g Mat. 3. 17. & 17. 5. heard his Fathers voyce from heauen , or h h Mat. 26. 27 , 28 , 29. mistooke the smell of the oyntment that was poured vpon him , or the i i Vini saporem quod in sanguinis sui memoriam consecrauit . tast of the wine that he consecrated for a memoriall of his blood . Neither was nature deluded in the Apostles . Faithfull was k k 2 Pet. 1. 17 , 18 their sight , and their hearing on the mount : Faithfull was their taste of the l l Ioh. 2. 9. wine that had beene water : Faithfull was m m Ioh. 20. 27. the touch of incredulous Thomas . ( And yet , as n n Aug. in Ioan. tract. 79. Augustine well obserueth ; o o Non hoc credidit quod vidit : Sed aliud vidit aliud credidit . Vidit enim hominem credidit Deum . Thomas saw one thing , and beleeued another thing : Hee saw Christ the man , and beleeued him to bee God : Hee beleeued with his minde that which hee saw not , by that which appeared to his bodily senses . And when we are said to beleeue our eyes , p p Idem . ibid: saith hee , by those things that wee doe see , wee are induced to beleeue those things that we doe not see . ) In a word , q q Tertul. ibid. Rehearse mee ( saith Tertullian ) Iohns testimony : r r 1 Ioh. 1. 1. That which we haue heard and seene with our eyes , and felt with our hands , that declare we vnto you : s s Falsa vtique testatio , si oculorum , & aurium , & manuum sensus natura mentitur . A false testimony ( saith he , an vncertaine at least ) if the nature of our senses in our eyes , eares , and hands be such . But these men would haue vs as t t Num. 16. 14. the sonnes of Eliah speake , to thrust out our eyes , and as the Iewish Rabbines say ( abusing u u Deut. 17. 11. a place of Scripture to that purpose ) that a man must beleeue the High Priest in all things , yea x x Talmudici Glossatores in eum locum . teste Lyra in Deut. & Hieron . à S. Fide Hebraeomastig . l 2 , c. 2. though hee shall tell him that his left hand is his right , and his right hand the left : so they would haue vs to beleeue whatsoeuer the Pope or they say , though they tell vs that , that both our sight and sense informeth vs to be most false .

§ 5. But to make good in part yet his former glorious flourish ; hee citeth a place of Hilarie , where hee affirmeth , that concerning the veritie of Christ in vs ( not speaking , as hee here saith specially of the Eucharist , but of our vnion and coniunction with him in generall ) vnlesse we speake as Christ hath taught vs , wee speake foolishly and impiously : that there is no place left to doubt of the verity of Christs body and blood ; that the Sacraments being receiued cause that Christ is in vs , and we in him .

Now who ( I pray you ) doubteth of , or denyeth ought that is here said ? who teacheth men to speake otherwise then Christ euer taught , but they that tell vs of bread transubstantiated , and of a body of Christ made of bread , of Christs flesh contained in bread , or vnder the accidents of bread , and of his blood in the bread , and his body by a concomitancie in the Cup , & c ? Who doubteth with vs of the truth of Christs body and blood ? For of the corporall presence of either in the Sacrament , Hilarie hath not heere a word . Or who denyeth but that by the receiuing of those venerable mysteries , Christ is ( spiritually ) in vs and we in him ; Doth not the Apostle say of Baptisme that by it y y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Rom. 6. 5. & Pachymer . in Dionys. hier eccles. c. 4. we are ingraffed into Christ ? and Chrysostome , that z z Chrysost. in Ephes. hom. 20. by it we become flesh of his flesh , and bone of his bone ? Hilaries scope is to shew that a a Ioh. 10. 30. Christ is one with God and his Father , and b b Ioh. 17. 21. 23. we one with him , not by consent of will onely , ( as some Heretikes said ) but by a true and reall vnion , yet c c 1 Cor. 6. 17. spirituall ; as his words implie when he saith , d d Ioh. 6. 56. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , abideth in me , and I in him . Vpon whinch wordes their owne Bishop Iansenius . e e Iansen . concord . Euag. cap. 59. They ( saith hee ) that thus eate Christs flesh and drinke his blood either by such faith alone , or in the Eucharist , are said to haue Christ abiding in them , and to abide themselues in him , in regard of the true vnion of our nature with the diuine nature by the spirit of Christ , whereby we are made * * 2 Pet. 1. 4. partakers of the divine nature . Yea those words of our Sauiour cannot be meant of Christ corporally receiued in the Eucharist , nor could Hilarie so meane , if he were otherwise of their minde , appeareth . For Christs body so taken as they imagine , doth not abide long in those that so receiue it , but by their owne doctrine goeth away againe , I know not whither , a while after . Whereas by vertue of such receiuing Christ as our Sauiour there speaketh of , We doe abide in him , and he in vs ; that is , we are most inwardly and inseparably knit vnto Christ , and he vnto vs ( they are still f f Iansen . ibid. Iansenius his tearmes , and * * Per honorem nobis datum 〈…〉 Dei , & Permanentem in nobis carnaliter filium , & in co nobis corporaliter & inseparabiliter vnitis , mysterium verae & naturalis vnitatis est praedicandum . Hilar. de Trin. l. 8. Et Ibid. Vt nos quoque in eo naturaliter inessemus , ipso in nobis naturaliter per manente . Hilarie also saith the same , ) and obteine therefore thereby not a transitorie life , as we doe by the eating of corporall meate , that passeth est-soones away and abideth not in him that eateth it , but life permanent and eternall . g g Idem ibid. Whence it is manifest also ( saith the same Author ) that all are not in this place said to eate Christs flesh and drinke his blood that receiue the Sacraments of his body and blood , since that all such haue not Christ abiding in them . But they eate his flesh and drinke his blood , as he there speaketh , who beleeuing that his flesh and blood were giuen on the Crosse for the Saluation of mankinde , and that by vertue of the hypostaticall vnion they haue a power to giue life , do either by such faith alone , or in the holy Eucharist also , receiue the Lord himselfe within themselues , & imbrace him , and by faith fast clasping him so keepe him within them , as one by whom whatsoeuer we desire , commeth to vs , and is conferred on vs . Thus he ; by whose words it plainely appeareth , that our abiding in Christ and Christ in vs , which Hilarie from our Sauiour speaketh of , dependeth not vpon any such corporall presence of his body and blood in the Sacrament , nor doth necessarily require the same : which h h Ideircò voluit Christus à nobis manducari , vt nos sibi incorporaret , quod non intelligitur nisi de spirituali manducatione ; quia in sacramentali tantum non fit haec incorporatio . Biel in Can. Miss. lect 36. by their owne doctrine also it doth not effect .

Diuision 9.

HIS next Argument drawen from the Nature of Signes N. P. and Sacraments is idle and forcelesse . For wee denie not ( as there he supposeth ) the Sacramentall Signes containing the bodie of Christ vnder them to signifie somewhat distinct from themselues , to wit , the spirituall nutrition of soules liuing by grace that worthily receiue them . They signifie likewise Christs body and blood dolorously seuered in his passion . And so a thing considered in one manner may be a signe of it selfe in another manner considered , as Christ transfigured represented his owne bodie as now it is in heauen glorified : his triumphant entrance into Ierusalem on Palme Sunday figured his owne entrance into heauen afterwards , as Eusebius Emissenus and other Fathers teach : and as an Emperour in his triumph may represent his owne victories , &c.

MY third Argument was taken from the Nature of Signes and Sacraments : whose nature is to signifie T. G. one thing , and to be another . The Argument is this :

No Signes or Sacraments are the same with that that they signifie :

But the bread and wine signifie Christs body and blood in the Eucharist :

They are not therefore essentially either .

To this idle and forcelesse Argument ( as he pleaseth to style it ) he thus answereth :

1. That the Sacrament all Signes signifie the spirituall nutrition of soules liuing by grace ; as also Christs body and blood dolorously seuered in his Passion .

Now 1. what is this to mine Argument ? was this man ( thinke we ) euer a disputant , that answereth Arguments on this wise ? which part of my Syllogisme ( I pray you ) is this Answer applied to ? I had thought that a Syllogisme being propounded , the Answerer should either haue denied or distinguished of one of the former Propositions .

2. It is not true , that the bread and wine in the Sacrament are signes of these things . Some affections of them and Actions vsed about them indeede are . The bread and wine themselues are signes of spirituall nutriment , not nutrition . The eating and drinking is a signe of it . Signes they are of Christs body and blood ; not of the dolorous seuering of them in the passion , though their being apart is a signe of it also .

3. He saith that a thing in one manner considered may be a Signe of it selfe in another manner considered : as Christ transfigured of himselfe now in heauen glorified ; his triumphant entrance into Ierusalem of his triumphant entrance into heauen ; and an Emperour in his triumph may represent his owne victorie .

But 1. If signum & res signata , the Signe and the thing signified by it be relatiues ( as without all Question they are ) a Father may as well be a father to himselfe , as a signe may be the signe of it selfe . Not to adde that the Ancients ( as hath formerly beene shewen ) are wont to call the Sacraments pictures , and pledges : and it is against common sense to say that ought is either a picture , or a pledge of it selfe .

2. I might well put this Defendant to prooue that Christs transfiguration was a representation of his present a Math. 17. 24 glorification , or that b b Math. 21. 7-10 . his entrance into Ierusalem was a type of his glorious entrance into heauen , whatsoeuer his bastardly Eusebius Emissenus say of it ; whose authoritie is no better then his owne .

3. Let him haue what he would ; that the one was a type of the other : Doth it follow ; Christs transfiguration was a type of his glorification : therefore Christ was a type or a signe of himselfe ?

4. An Emperour and his victorie ( I suppose ) are not all one ; no more then Christs body and the glorification of it ; nor againe the transfiguration , & the present glorification .

The Argument therefore is neither idle nor forceless● for ought that he hath yet shewed .

Diuision 10.

HIs next Argument pag. 13. is grossely carnall and vnfit N. P. indeede to be answered . For who but a babbling ignorant Person would as he doth there , make such an inference ? Christs hands and feete were visible and palpable after his passion ( which tediously and needelesly he prooueth , ) But they are not so in the Eucharist : Ergo , the naturall parts of Christs bodie are not at all in it . For if the Argument were good , we might rightly inferre that Christ had no body at all when in Emaus ( for example ) after he had blessed and brake bread , he vanished out of the Disciples sight ; when he hid himselfe from the Iewes , who would haue stoned him , in the Temple , not by running into a corner ( as this grosse fellow peraduenture may of Christ basely and vnworthily imagine ) but by becomming vndiscernable by them ; as he became also inuisible and impalpable to the Nazarites holding and drawing him towards the hill on which there Citie was built , whence they ment to tumble him . As if locall extension , visibilitie , palpabilitie and other naturall Accidents and sensible properties could not by Gods omnipotency be seuered from his owne bodie without the totall destruction thereof . This is a grosse kinde of Philosophie and Diuinitie fit for such a stupide Professour .

MY fourth Argument was taken from the Nature of T. G. Christs Body , which hath slesh , blood and bones , is an organicall body , endued with limmes and lineaments , yea and life too . Whereas that which is giuen and receiued in the Eucharist , is ( as Epiphanius well obserueth ) liuelesse and limmelesse , &c. Now here , ( according to his vsuall manner ) he letteth the Argument goe , and falleth to raile downe right ; that it is an argument grossely carnall , and vnfit indeede to be answered , of a babbling and ignorant person , and a stupide professour . He sheweth where his shoe wringeth him . Yet that he may not seeme to say nothing to it ; he frameth me an Argument of his owne on this wise : Christs hands and feete were visible and palpable after his Passion :

But they are not so in the Eucharist : ergò

Whereas I tell him that Christs body hath flesh , blood and bones , and sense and life , and limmes and lineaments of a body organicall . But their silly sorry wafer-cake hath none of all these . And then he telleth vs that I might as well affirme that Christ had no body when c c Luk. 24. 31. No more was done with Christ here , then with Philip. Act. 8. 39. at Emaus hee vanished out of the sight of his Disciples ; when d d Ioh. 8. 59. he hid himselfe from the Iewes that would haue stoned him in the Temple ; when e e Luk. 4. 30. he passed through the midst of them that would haue thrown him downe head-long , &c.

1. Let him prooue vnto vs that at any of these times those that had Christs body in their hands to feele at their pleasure , as his Disciples had , f f Luk. 24. 39. when hee appeared vnto them after his passion and resurrection , ( which in prosecution of mine Argument I produce also and presse ) did finde it and feele it to haue neither hands , nor feete , flesh blood , nor bone , life nor limme ; and the consequence shall then bee granted him ; but neuer till then . And looke what limmes and lineaments our Sauiour then had , when hee was here on earth , the same he retaineth still . Augustine demanded whether Christs body had bones and blood still , and other bodily limmes and lineaments ; g g Aug. epist. 149. Ego Domini corpus ita in coelo esse credo , vt erat in terra , &c. I beleeue ( saith he ) that Christs body is now in heauen as it was on earth , when he went vp into heauen . For so h h ●uk. 24. 38 , 39. when the Disciples doubted , whether it were a body or a spirit that they saw , he had them see and feele his hands and feete : for that a spirit had not flesh and bones , as they saw that hee had . So he was on earth ; so he was seene to be when he went to heauen ; and so shall he , as i i Act. 1. 11. the Angell told , come againe from thence . But such ( wee are sure ) their little breaden God is not . It is none of Christ therefore .

2. Looke how this man argueth , so did the Heret●kes of old , to prooue our Sauiour Christ to haue an aiery , spirituall , aad fantasticall body . k k Ioan. Hieroscl . Ep in Fpist Hieren . contr. ●rror . 〈…〉 . Let it not deceiue you , you simple sots , ( saith Iohn of Ierusalem ) when you reade that l l Ioh. 20. 27. Christ shewed Thomas his hands and his side , or when you heare him say , that he hath m m L●k . 24. 3● . flesh and bones : These things he made some shew of indeede to strenghthen the saith of his doubting Disciples . But he shewed that hee had an ai●ry and spirituall body in truth , when n n Ioh. 2. 19. he came to his Disciples while the doores were shut , and o o Luk. 24. 31. hee vanished out of their sight . And to the like purpose did p p Tertul. contr. Mare . l. 4 & Hieron . ad Pāmachi . the Marci●nites vrge his q q Luk. 4. ●0 . escape from those of Nazareth . Now what do the ancient Fathers hereunto answer ? r r Tertul , x Marc lib. 4. That Christs body ( saith Tertullian ) is no fancy euer , hereby appeareth , in that it end●red violent handling , when hee was taken and held , and haled to the hill-brow . For s s Etsi per medios euasit , sed ante iam vim expertus , & poste à dimissus scil. soluto , vti assolet , tumultu , vel etiam irrupto , non tamen per caliginem eluso &c. albeit hee made an escape through the midst of them , being first forcibly held , and after let goe , either the throng being dissolued , or forcibly broken through ; yet was it not by any fantasticall delusion . For he had a true body still , and hands that hee touched others still with , and were by them felt ; ( and then his body belike was not impalpable as this fellow saith it was . ) And againe , t t Idem contr. eund. lib. 5. when Christ sheweth his Disciples his hands and his feet , without doubt he hath hands , and feet , and bones , which a spirit hath not . And Ierome refuting Iohn of Ierusalem ; u u Hieron . ad Pammach. contra error . Ioan . Hieros . As Christ shewed his Disciples true hands and a true side ; so hee ate truely with them , spake with his tongue truely to them , and with his hands truely brake , and reached them out bread . For that he suddenly vanished out of their sight ; as before his passion also at Nazareth he passed through the midst of them , that is , he made an escape out of their hands , * * Virtus Dei est , non vmbtae aut phantasmatis . it was done by his diuine power , not by any fantasticall delusion . “ “ Quod Magis licet , hoc Domino non licet ? Apollonius , &c. repente non comparuit . Noli potentiam Domini Magorum praestigiis coaequa re , vt videatur fuisse quod non suit , comedisse sine dentibus , fregisse panem sine manibus , ambulasse sine pedibus , locutus sine lingua , latus ●stendisse sine costis . Could not Christ doe as much as some Magitians haue done ? Apollonius , as he stood in the Court before Domitian , vanished suddenly out of sight . Yet doe you not therefore match Christs power with Magicians iuglings in making him seeme to bee that that hee was not , to eate without teeth , breake bread without hands , walke without feet , speake without tongue , shew a side without ribs . And whereas it might be demanded how it came to passe that x x Luk. 24. 16. those two Disciples did not know him , till a little before hee left them ; y y Hieron . ibid. Ierome maketh answer out of the Text it selfe , that it was not because his body was not the same it had beene , but because their eyes were held that they might not know him . And the same Ierome else-where dealing against the same dotages , z z Idem in Epitaph . Paulae . Christ ( saith hee ) had hands and sides , had breast and bellie too : he that had hands and feete , had armes and thighes too . And seeing hee had all the members of the body , hee must needs haue a whole body that consisteth of those members . Let vs reason backward , as well wee may . If Christ haue an entire body consisting of those limmes , then he hath all those limmes , whereof such a body consisteth . And then let vs say to these , as he then to them , a a Idem . ibid. You heare of flesh , and feet , and hands , and other limmes . And b b Sticorum globos & a●ria quaedam deliramenta . doe you forge vs some c c Globosam siue rotundam formam Diis dabant Stoici . Ex Sen ep. 94. Lips. physiol . Stoic . l. 1. c. 8. Stoicall round bals , and aiery dotages . ( As these doe little round wafer-cakes , which they beare vs downe to be Christs body . ) He alludeth to the Stoicks , who held that the Gods had some shape ; and d d Nec tamen ea species corpus est sed quasi corpus ; nec habet sanguinem , sed quasi sanguinem . C●c . de nat. Deor. l. 1. that shape was as a body , but yet no body ; and had as it were blood and yet no blood . Wherein the Marcionites also in a manner agreed with them , ( and our Romanists at this day with either ) imagining our Sauiour ( e e Tertul. de carne Christi & contr. Marc. saith Tertullian ) to haue f f Vt carnem gestaret sine ossibus duran , sine mus . ulis solidam , sine sanguine cruen●… , sine tunica vestitam , sine same esurientem , sine dentibus edentem , sine lin●…●●quer ten . flesh hard without bones , solide without muscles , bloody without blood , clad without coate , speaking without tongue , eating without teeth , &c. Whereupon Tertullian concludeth , that since Christ had all his limmes when hee shewed them to his Descipl●s , they that imagined such a Christ as this , g g Ecce 〈…〉 , decipit , circumuenit omnium o●ulos , sensus , access●s , contactus . Ergò Christum non de coelo deferre debueras , sed de caetu aliquo circul●torio , spectaculi artificem , non salutis Pontificem , that deceiueth , beguileth , and deludeth all mens eyes , and senses and touchings , ( and taste too hee might haue said , we at least may say ) should not bring him from heauen ( from whence the Marcionites said their Christ had his body , though the Papists dare not say , they haue theirs from thence ) but fetch him rather out of some h h So translate I him , aliuding to our Enlish phrase . His sense is apparent . iuglers box ( the Popish pyx , or the like ) not to worke saluation , but to make sport with . This I haue the rather insisted vpon to shew how the Papists iump in their conceits about this their breaden God ; and strange fantasticall body , that hath all parts of a mans body , and yet none at all to be seen , felt , heard , yea or vnderstood , with the Hereticks of old time ; and to confirme these their dotages vse and vrge the very same Arguments that they then did , by the ancient Fathers long since answered : As also that the ancient Fathers vsed then the very same Arguments against them , that we doe now against these ; which yet it pleaseth this vaine trifler to tearme grossely carnall and vnworthy to be answered .

§ 2. Oh but ( saith hee ) it is a grosse kinde both of diuinity and philosophie fit for such a stupide Professor , to hold that locall extention , visiblitie , palpability , and other naturall accidents and sensible proprieties cannot by Gods omnipotency be severed from his owne body without the destruction of it .

1. Yea and to omit that it is a very sorry shift to haue recourse to Gods omnipotency for the iustifying of such monstrous fictions and forged miracles as either in this their prodigious dotage , or in their lying Legends they haue endeauoured to obtrude vpon the world : To say that God can make Christs body to remaine still in his full stature , and yet at the same time to be no bigger then to enter in at a mans mouth , or goe downe a childs throat , or to make * * Ex vi Sacramenti sub specie panis continentur , non solum caro , sed totum corpus Christi , soil . osla & nerui , & alia huiusmodi ; non enim dicitur , Haec est caro mea , sed , Hoc est corpus meum . Thom. Aq sum . part 3. q. 76. a. 1. ad 2. a mans body consisting of flesh , blood and bone to haue no dimensions or extention at all , not other accidents and properties of a naturall body ; is manifestly to say that God can make a thing at the same time to be and not to be , to be a body and no body ; which implyeth contradiction . And i i Quae contradictionem implicant , sub divina omnipotentia non continentur . Idem ibid. part. 1. q. 25. a 3. those things that imply contradiction , they themselues grant that God cannot doe . For it were to make falshood truth ; which hee that is k k Elohim emeth Deus veri●as . Ier. 10. 10. Ioh. 14. 6. Truth it selfe can neuer doe .

2. In this very manner also did the Heretickes reason as appeareth by Theodoret , to maintaine their absurd dotages against the Orthodox Christians , who likewise answered them then , as wee doe these now . m m 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Eranista apud Theod. dial 1. & 3. There is nothing ( saith the Hereticke ) that God cannot doe . Wee say , that n n Mar. 10. 27. all things are possible with God . And Iob saith , that o o Iob. 42. 2. God can doe all things , and there is nothing impossible with him . There is nothing therefore but he can doe , that is able to doe all things . Now how doth the Orthodoxe disputer answer this ? p p Theodoret. ibid 3. God ( saith hee ) can do q q Psal. 115. 3. & 135. 6. whatsoeuer he will : But r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . God neither can doe , nor will any thing which is not agreeable to his owne nature . As for example s s Iam. 1. 〈…〉 . he cannot sin ; t t Tit. 1. 13. hee cannot ly , u u Psal. 92. 15. nor do any vniust thing , being iustice and truth it selfe . x x 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Many things there are therefore that God , that can doe all things , yet cannot doe . Yea it is a part of his power that he cannot doe them , no argument at all of any impotency in him . This was deemed a sufficient answere to those Heretikes then ; and may as well now be returned our Popish Adversaries , fighting with the same weapons that they then did , for points as absurd as euer any of them held .

Diuision 11.

ANother Argument is by my Aduersarie tediously prosecuted N. P. pag. 12. wherein from Christs locall being still in heaven , hee argueth and endeauoureth to prooue an vtter impossibility of his bodily being in the Sacrament . Of which kinde of disputing I may fitly say with Saint Augustine , a a Aug. lib 2● . de Ciuit. Dei , cap. 51. Behold with what manner of Arguments humane infi●mity possessed with vanity , contradicteth Gods omnipotency . As if naturall vnder standing were able to comprehend the vtmost limit and extention of Gods power , which is in it selfe infinite and inforutably manifested in many of his wonderfull miracles : of which ( as I haue said ) no other reason can be giuen , but that hee is omnipotent that did them , and cannot deceiue vs when hee is pleased to testifie them . Can wee conceiue ( for example ) the creation of the world of nothing at all preexisting ; the resurrection and repaire which God will make of all bodies so vtterly by frequent and successiue conuersions into other things altered and consumed ; the personall vnion of man with God ; the torment of soules and diuels wholly spirituall by corporall fire ; the consubstantiall subsisting of the divine nature simply one of it selfe in three distinct persons ; and other like mysteries of faith not conceiuable more then the bodily being of our Saviour in the Sacrament ; yet vpon the warrant of Scripture and doctrine of Christs Church faithfully by vs beleeued ? Can this Minister tell me ( to come more neerely to our purpose ) how our Sauiour appeared visibly to S. Paul on earth ( as diuerse plaine texts import , particularly by Bellarmine b b Lib. de Euchar . produced and discussed ) and yet ( as himselfe will not deny ) still remaining in heauen ? Or can he tell me , how our Sauiours body went out of his Sepulcher , without remoouing that huge stone , rolled afterward by the Angell from it ? Or how hee entred the house , the doores being and remayning still shut vpon his disciples ; as for a great miracle the Euangelist recounted ? Or how he pierced the solide and huge Orbes of heauen in his ascension without making any hole in them ? Sithence it is equally aboue nature for many bodies to possesse one place , as for one bodie to be in many places . And if according to Christian true Philosophy , the soule of man being a spirituall and indiuisible substance can at one be entirely in distant parts of mans body exercising all distinct operations in them , why is it impossible for God to giue his humane body distant presences and a spirituall manner of being in the Sacrament ? when as by personall vnion with himselfe , he giueth to the same body a far higher and more inconceiuable manner of beeing .

MY fift Argum●nt is from the nature of a true body which cannot possibly be the same whole and entire T. G. in many places at once , much lesse in places as farre distant , as East and West , Heauen and Earth .

Now heere againe is hee faine to fly ( as before ) to Gods omnipotency . That is their d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Quem aduocabant Comici , vbires haerere videbatur . Deus è machina ; as they had wont to speake ; that is the knife still at hand to helpe to cut all those knots that by their wanton wits and absurd fantasies they haue snarled themselues in . And the better to enforce this e e Catholicon Medicorum , siue Panacaeú Papisticum . Catholike Answer , that se●ueth them for the saluing of all sores , hee reckoneth vp a long bead roll of wonderfull works ; as the Creation , the Resurrection , the Hypostaticall vnion , the Trinity in Unity , the torment of Spirits by corporall fire , Christ comming out of the Sepulcher without remooving the huge stone , his entring into the house while the doores were still shut , his appearing to Paul on earth while hee was still in heauen , ( which he telleth vs Bellarmine hath plainely prooued ) his piercing of the solide Orbes of heauen in his Ascention , the soule being at once entirely in distant parts of mans body , &c. And then demandeth why God cannot cause Christs body to be as well one and the same , whole and entire in so many seuerall distant places at once ; the rather since that it is equall aboue nature for many bodies to possesse one place , as for one body to be in many places .

1. Here are diuers things that are questionable both in Diuinity and Philosophy : which albeit he take pro concessis , will not so easily be granted him , till they be better prooued then as yet they are , howsoeuer we exclude not diuerse of them out of the reach of Gods omnipotency , euen as he vnderstandeth them ; as

1. The manner of the f f Vise Iul. Scalig. de subtil . exercit . 307. Sect. 29. Aegidium in l. 2. de anima . c. 2. q. 6. & Hospinian . de sede anim . soules being in distant parts of the body is disputable : nor is there the same reason of bodies and of spirits .

2. The torment of spirits whether it be by corporall fire or no , is not agreed on as a matter of faith ; g g De purgat . l. 2. c. 11. Bellarmine himselfe so confesseth .

3. The manner of h h Act. 9. 17. Christs apparition to S. Paul is not certaine . Neither doth Bellarmine prooue that Christ was below on earth , or neere the earth in his humanity ; nor is it to the purpose whether he were or no. i i Act. 7. 56. Steuen saw him in heauen , the heauens opened : k k 2 Cor. 12 , 2 , 3 , 4. Paul was rapt vp himselfe into heauen . Yea l l Apparuit illi primum in coelo . Ambr. hom. in 1. Cor. 15. in heauen , and m m Superna ei pietas coelos aperuit , seseque illi Iesus de sublim●bus ostendit . Greg. mor. l. 19. c. 5. from heauen it was that Christ appeared to him ; if we may beleeue Pope Gregory and one that goeth ordinarily for Ambrose . Nor can n n Bellar. de Euch. l. 3. c. 3. Bellarmine produce any one of the Ancients that saith otherwise . Howbeit neither do we so pen vp Christ in heauen , but that he may at his pleasure ( though ordinarily he doth not ) descend .

4. For o o Ioh. 20. 19. Christs comming in to his Disciples when the doores were shut . Why might not ( as Ierome speaketh ) p p Creaturam cedere creatori . Hieron . ad Pammach. contr. error . Ioan. Hieros . the creature giue way to the Creator ; as q q Act. 12. 10. the iron gate did to Peter ? r r Durand . in senten . l. 4. d. 44. q. 6. ad. 3. It is said , saith Durand , one of their Schoolemen , that Christ came when the doores were shut : but it is not said , that he came in through the doores so shut : he might enter in by some other place ; or cause the doores to open suddenly , and shut instantly againe .

5. For Christs resurrection ; Let him heare the same Durand . s s Idem ibid. ad 2. It cannot ( saith hee ) be prooued by any Text of Scripture , that Christ rose againe while the Tombe was so shut : and so consequently that his body passed through the stone . Or if Durands authority will not serue ; let them heare Pope Leo in one of his decretall Epistles : t t Reuoluto monumenti lapide caro surrexit . Leo Pp. epist. 83. Christs body ( saith he ) rose againe the stone being rolled away .

6. For his Ascension ; to omit , that this u u Vid: Zanc de operibus creat part. 2. l. 2. c. 3. Th. 3 Et Keckerm . system . physic . l. 2 c. 2. solidity of the Orbes is in Philosophy a thing questionable ; and such a point , as if it bee denyed , this great Doctor will hardly be euer able to make good : I answer with Durand ; that x x Durand . vbi sup. ad 1. Whether the heauens bee divisible in their owne nature , or by divine vertue , ( as the one they well may bee , and the other certainly they are ) there is no necessity that Christs body in his Ascension should be together in the same place with the bodies of the Orbes .

So that in none of these Examples there is any necessitie of two bodies being in one place at once . Which yet if it were prooued ( if they will beleeue their owne Schoolemen ) were not suffiicient . For howsoeuer this great Doctor tell vs , that it is equally aboue nature for many bodies to be in one place , and for one body to bee in many places : yet they say , that it is not so . y y Tho. Aqui. quodlib . 1. art. 22. Though two bodies ( saith Aquinas ) may be in one places at once ; yet it followeth not that one bodie may bee in two places at once . The former is not possible but by miracle ; the latter not at all . z z Durand . in 4. d. 4. q. 6. ad 1. It is not alike ( saith Durand ) for two bodies to be at once in one place ; and for one body to be at once in more places then one . For the one implieth a contradiction ; the other doth not , ( the former he meaneth ) though it may seeme so to doe .

2. And so he hath a direct answer , why wee deny that a body can be in diuerse places at once ; notwithstanding we beleeue and acknowledge Gods wonderfull workes of Creation , Resurrection , Christs Incarnation , and those vnsearchable mysteries of the Trinitie , and Hypostaticall vnion , &c. because the one implyeth a contradiction , those other doe not .

And here let me entreat the Reader ( since that these men so much presse vs with Gods omnipotency ) to cast his eye backe with me to those manifold a a Diuis. 2. sect. 4. num. 3. impossibilities before mentioned , and by themselues acknowledged , euen in this very businesse concerning the Sacrament . Whereby it may appeare , that they make vse of it onely to serue their owne turnes , vrging it then when it may stead them , and denying it then when it doth not . To recite againe some one or two of them onely , adding one or two more to them b b Bellarm , de Euchar. 〈…〉 . 3. c. 19. Luthers opinion ( saith Bellarmine ) cannot be true : because c c Nullo modo fierr potest vt vna res non mutetur , & ta●en 〈…〉 alia . it is no way possible that one thing should not be changed , and yet should become another . And d d Impossibile rem vnam converti in aliam , nec tamen in ea parte desinere esse quod erat . Lanfranc . contr. Bereng . It is impossible ( saith Lanfranck ) that one thing should be turned into another , and not cease to be , so farre forth as it is converted . e e Supra Diui● . 2. It is impossible ( saith this Defendant , that cannot endure here to heare of any impossibility ) That a man should be a Rocke , or a Uine . And f f Fieri non potest vt pauis sit corpus Christi . Bellar. de Euch. l. 1. 〈…〉 . 1● . It is impossible ( saith Bellarmine ) that bread should bee Christs body . g g Non potest esse aliquis simul in diuersis temporibus . Fr. Mairon , in sent , l. 4. d. 11. q. 1. It is not possible ( saith Maironis ) that one should be in two times at once . ( And is it not as impossible then , for one to bee in two places at once ? ) And h h Idem effectus non potest habere plures causas totales . Ibid. it is impossible that one single effect should haue diuerse totall causes : and i i Ideò idem a●●idens non potest esse in diuersis subiectis . Ibid. impossible therefore that one and the same accident should bee in diuerse subiects . ( And why not as impossible for one subiect to haue diverse accidents , as diuerse seates , sites , qualities , and quantities at once ? which Christsbody must needs haue , i● it bee with vs in the Eucharist . ) k k Vnde & idem non potest simul moueri motibus oppositis . Durand . in sent. l. 4. d. 10. q. 3. It is impossible ( saith Durand ) that one and the same thing should mooue two contrary wayes at once . And l l Impossibile est quod vnus motus eiusdem corporis localiter moti terminetur simul ad diuersa ●oca . Thom sum . p. 3. q 75. a. 2. It is impossible ( saith Aquinas ) that the same body should by locall motion arriue in diuerse seuerall places at once . And m m Impossibile est idem esse motum & quietum . Ibid. q 76. a. 6. It is impossible that one and the selfe same thing should both rest and stirre at once . And yet should Christs body , if it were in the Host , or if it were the very Host rather , doe all this , when at the same time it both resteth in the Pyx in one place , and goeth in Procession in another place , and is in diuerse processions , or on sundry seuerall occasions carried contrary wayes to seuerall persons and places at the same instant . No more therefore doe we curb or restraine Gods ●mnip●tency , when we deny that a body can bee by any meanes in two distant places at once , then they doe , when they deny a possibility of the things before spoken . And for the reason of our denyall , let them heare be side Durands , Aquinas his confession . * * V●um corpus non potest esse in lu●bus locis . V●… enim corpus esse localiter in duobus locis implicat contradictionem . Thom. Aq. quodlib . 1. art. 22. For one body ( saith hee ) to bee locally in two places at once , it implieth a contradiction : and therefore cannot a body be in two places at once ; no not by miracle neither : For those things that imply contradiction God cannot do . n n Deus non potest sacere , vt vnum corpus localiter sit simul in duobus locis . Idem quodli I. 3. art. 2. God therefore cannot make a body to bee locally in two places at once . The very selfe same saith o o Aegid . Rom. quodlib 1. q. 1. Aegidius too : and Amolynus on him ; that p p Si essent mille miracula , non adaequarent potentiam ad id quod implicat contradictione . Laurent . Amolyn . in eund. ibid. although a thousand miracles were wrought , nothing could bee effected that implyeth a contradiction ; as this doth .

CErtainely the holy Fathers doubted not to affirme that N. P. Christ left his body here on earth , and yet assumed with him the same bodie into heauen ; hee held his body in his owne hands at his last Supper , and distributed it severally to his Apostles ; as hath beene already out of S. Chrysostome , S. Augustine , and other holy Fathers formerly by me alle●dged . Insomuch as Melancthon one of the maine pillars of Protestant Religion , vnderstood the opinion of the holy Fathers so well in this point , and attributed so much withall to Gods omnipotency , as hee writeth thus of this very Argument . c c Epist. ad Martinum Ge●ob . I had rather offer my selfe to death then to affirme as Zwinglians doe , that Christs body cannot bee but in one place at once . And S. Augustine ( as Bellarmine prooueth ) was so farre from denying this to the bodie of Christ , as he doubted whether the holy Martyrs may not be at the selfe same time in severall Churches and Memories erected of them ; albeit naturally no spirit nor body can bee more then in one place , or remaine without some certaine place of beeing : which latter is in the places ciced by this Minister out of him onely affirmed . And if a perfect substance or nature ( as was the humanity of Christ ) could want the naturall personality and subsistence thereof , supplyed by the divine person and hypostasis of the Sonne of God ( as our Christian faith teacheth vs ) why cannot in like manner by Gods omnipotency the accidents of bread and wine remaine without actuall inhering and being in their naturall subiect ?

His other Arguments page 15. are drops of an afterstorme , and obiections gathered out of S. Augustine , which doe onely prooue that Christ is not visibly but in heauen ; not denying his sacramentall beeing in many places ; as this Minister would haue him . And surely our Saviour himselfe in the 6. Chapter of S. Iohn , verse 61. solueth this very obiection ( as S. Chrysostome vnderstandeth him ) when perceiving that his Disciples murmared at his promise of giuing his flesh for meate , &c. he said to them , Doth this scandalize you ? If then you shall see the Sonne of Man ascending where he was before , &c. As if hee had said ; Are you scandalised that I said being now present with you , I will giue my flesh for food ? what then will you doe , or how farre will ▪ you be from beleeuing that I canso giue you my flesh , when I ●…ll ascend to heauen and be absent so sarre from you ?

§ 2. THe places of the Fathers here pointed at , were before answered , where by him they were a● T. G. large alledged . And howsoeuer Augustine q q Aug. de cura pro mort . ger . c. 16. spake modestly ( after his manner ) of a difficult Question , not daring peremptorily to determine by what meanes that was effected , that by diuers other meanes might be : yet in his bookes against Fa●stus the Manichie hee saith expressely and peremptorily , that r r Secundum presentiam corporalem simul & in Sole , & in Luna , & in Cruce esse non potest . Aug. contr. Faust. l. 20. c. 11. Christ in regard of his bodily presence could not bee at once in the Sunne and in the Moone , and vpon the Crosse also : as they absurdly imagined and maintained that he was . And againe in his Comment aries on the Gospell of S. Iohn ; not ( as Bellarmine corruptly citeth him , as hee doth also many others ) that s s Corp. Christi , in quo resurr. vno in loco esse potest . Bellar. de Euthar . l. 2. c. 24. Christs body in which he rose againe , M AY be ; but ( as t t Vno in loco esse oportet . Aug. in Ioan. tr. 30. Peter Lombard , u u Petr. Lomb. sen. l. 4. d. 10. A and other of their owne Authors acknowledge him to say ) that x x Grar . de consecr. d. z. c. 1. Thom. in 4. d. 10. a. 1. Scot. in 4. q. 3. & alii . ibid. it MVST be in one place ; howsoeuer his verity ( that is , his Deitie ) be every where . Yea discusing the question at large in one of his Epistles , and hauing concluded the Negatiue , hee saith that y y Cauendum ne veritatem corporis auferamus , August . Epist. 17. they take away the truth of his body , that maintaine it to be in many places at once : Whereas though z z Immortalitatem dedit , naturam non abstulit . Ibid. immortality bee conferred on it , yet nature is not taken from it . To which purpose hee disputeth much of the nature of a true body , and deliuereth those things , which I presse out of him : all which together with the testimonies of other of the Ancients this superficiall Answerer passeth ouer with sad silence ; onely boldly and b●asen facedly auouching that all that is alleadged out of Augustine prooueth nothing but this , that Christ is not visibly but in Heauen . Did hee thinke that his Reader would not cast an eye on them , whem they were verbatim set downe before him ?

§ 3. Yea but our Saviour himselfe ( he saith ) solveth this Obiection , Iohn 6. 61. as Chrysostome vnderstandeth him , when hee saith , Doth this scandalize you ? What if you shall see the Sonne of Man ascending where hee was before , & c ? as if hee had said ; Are you scandalized because I said being now , present with you , I will giue my flesh for food ? What then will you doe , or how farre will you be from beleeuing that I can so giue you my flesh when I shall ascend to heauen , and be so farre aboue from you ?

1. Where Chrysostome thus expoundeth the place , I know not . Vpon the place ( I am sure ) he hath nothing but this , that a a Chrysost. in Ioan. hom. 47. Christ by these wordes did intimate to them his Deitie . Yea so b b Iansen . concord . Euang. cap. 59. Iansenius also saith , that Chrysostome vnderstandeth these words as spoken to assure them that hee came downe from heauen . The truth is ; this exposition it not Chrysostomes , but Bellarmines , ( from whom this Collector hath filched it ) who yet to adde some grace and procure some weight to an inuention of his owne , saith that ᶜ Chrysostome to him seemeth to point at some such thing . Indicare mihi videtur Chrysost. Bellar. de Euch. l , 1. c. 6. And what Bellarmine saith cautelously , and timorously , Chrysostome to him seemeth to point at ; that this blinde bayard saith boldly and confidently , that Chrysostome saith ; and vpon the Exposition as backed now sufficiently with Chrysostome , he buildeth a peremptory answer to all mine Obiections , that will easily remooue them all . Did this man thinke that these things would euer be examined ? Or is his credit so meane already that he need not feare to bee discredited , that hee dare vse such sorry shifts as these are ?

2. Grant all to be Chrysostomes , and all to bee as true , as if not Chrysostome , but Christ himselfe had said it : what will thence bee concluded to prooue that Christs body may be in many places at once ? But since hee hath cited this place , though to small purpose ; let him heare Augustines words on it , going directly agaiust them , and these absurd fantasies of theirs . d d August . in Ioan. tr. 27. Christ ( saith he ) doth in ▪ these wordes e e Hie so ●uit , quod eos mouerat , &c. solue that that mooued them : and openeth that whereas they were jcandalized . For they thought that hee would giue them out his body : but he told them that be should g●e vp whole into heauen . As if hee had said , f f Aug ibid. When you shall see the Sonne of Man ascend where hee was before ▪ certainely then you shall see , that he doth not giue out his body in such a manner as you imagine : Certainely euen then you shall vnderstand , that his grace is not consumed by bits . And to Augustine addewe Athanasius one as ancient as the Nicene Councell and a principall person in it g g Athanas. in illud Euang. Quicunque dixerit , &c. Christ disputing ( saith hee ) of the eating of his body , and seeing many therevpon scandalized , thus spake ; Doth this scandalize you ? What then if you shall see the Sonne of Man ascend where before he was ? It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing . The words that I speake are spinit and life . For heere he spake of both , both his flesh and his spirit , and distinguished the spirit from the flesh , that beleeuing not onely that that appeared to the eyes , but that also that was invisible , they might learne that those things also that he spake were h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . not carnall , but spirituall . i i 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . For to how many men could his body haue sufficed to eate of ? that it might be the foodalso of the whole world . But therefore made he ▪ mention of his ascension into heauen , that hee might withdraw them form the corporall vnderstanding ; and that then they might vnderstand that his flesh which hee spake of was heauenly meate from aboue , and spirituall food to be giuen by him . For , saith he , Those things which I haue spoken to you are spirit and life . Which is euen all one as if hee had said ; My body that is shewed and giuen , shall be giuen to bee meate for the whole world , k k 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . that it may spiritually be distributed to each one , and become to each one a safegard and preseruatiue for resurrection to life eternall . So little doth this place auaile for this purpose , as the Ancients both Latine and Greeke expound it : making much rather against them & this popish doctrine of a carnall feeding on Christs flesh ; which those Fathers gather and prooue thence to be wholly spirituall . But thus iudicious is he in the choice of his allegations ; and so sincere in his citations of the Ancients , putting downe their names only , but pointing to no place , that his fraud and forgeries may not be discouered ; and fastening vpon them his owne , or his owne associates expositions , wholly differing and dissenting from that that themselues say .

MOreouer it is a wilde kinde of arguing from the naturall N. P. and locall extension of bodies to inferre ( as my Adversary doth page 16. ) that by no possible power of God any body can want this locall extension ; this being a secondary effect of quantity , and an accidentall propriety , which God may therefore easily hinder , and conserue without it bodily substance ; as our Sauiour himselfe insinuateth in the Gospell ; affirming for a thing possible with God , to make a great Camell to passe through the eye of a needle ; by taking ( to wit ) from it exterior bignesse and locall extension . Of which Camell so extenuated and straitned in place all the very same may be proportionably affirmed , which this Minister accounteth so absurd , by vs held of Christs body in the Sacrament . And supposing truely that the body of Christ hath no extension in place , it is ridiculous for this ignorant Minister to make such inferences ; as that any part of Christs body must be as great and greater then his whole body ; and his whole body lesse then any part of it . For if neither the whole nor any part thereof , as it is in the Sacrament hath any exterior bignesse at all , how can one part be said to bee bigger then the whole ? as of two blacke things a man should say , one was whiter then the other , when neither had any whitenesse at all in them .

§ 4. TO the recit●ll of their absurd assertions , that T. G. there is l l Omnes partes integrales Corporis Christi , caput , pectus , manus , pedes , &c. Gabr. Biel. in Can. Miss. lect. 42. Qui & asserit lect. 80. Non esse inconueniens , si ponantur infinitae partes substantiae pu●ctualis paris ante co●ecratio ēquod infinities corpus Christi est sub speciebus panis post consecrationem . That Christs body may be ten thousand thousand times ( and why not ten thousand thousand bodies of Christ then ? ) with head , feet , hands , legs , backe , breast , and belly , in one wafer if there be but so many crums as big a needles point in it . Vide & Fr. Maironis in 4. ●ist ▪ 10. quest. a. a whole Christ , flesh , blood , and bone , head , hands and feet , belly , breast and backe , in euery little wafer-cake , and euery least crumme of each ; and consequently , the whole body of Christ on earth lesse then the least limme or fingers end of it in heaven : as also to the allegations out of Augustine that this cannot be ; for that in euery true body , the parts cannot bee altogether , but must haue their due distance , and each of them his space or place according to his bignesse ; and none of them can be bigger then the whole : He maketh answer , that this is but a wilde kinde of reasoning : ( and yet it is Augustine that so reasoneth , whom hee might haue beene pleased to vse with better tearmes : ) telleth vs what our Sauiour saith of a Camell passing thorow a needles ey : as if what were spoken there by our Sauiour of the one did relieue the absurditie of the other : ( which no whit it doth , being onely m m Hyperbole , qua nihil aliud quam hoc difficillimum esse intelligi voluit . Erasm. de rat . ver. Theolog. an hyperbolicall speech , vsed to set forth the impossibility n n Mat. 19. 26. Mar. 10. 27. with man , of o o Mar. 10. 24. such a rich mans salvation as hee there speaketh of : ) and informeth this ignorant Minister , that neither the whole body of Christ nor any part of it , as it is in the Sacrament , hath any exterior bignesse at all .

1. Did any man euer before heare of a body without bignesse ? or a co●pus non quantum , without those dimensions that are so vnseparable from a body , that the very same p p 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Corpus A●…st . categor . quantit . name is giuen vnto either , and wee haue no particular name either in Greeke or Latine to expresse the one by , but that which is the vsuall appellation of the other ? But a number of such absurd dreames and dotages doth this prodigious doctrine produce . q q Monstra quis tanta explicet ? Sen. Theb. 1 ▪ Accidents without subiects : Bodies without bignesse : Parts bigger then the whole : The whole lesse then the least part : A growne mans entire body with all limmes and toynts of it , couched and cooped vp in a thinne wafer-cake and in every crum of it . The same body that is entire in heauen still , in a thousand places entire too at the same time here on earth ; and yet never stirre an inch from the place that in heauen it still holdeth . These are r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Theod. Rhaetens . de haeres . magicall mysteries indeed , which it is no maruell if this ignorant Minister cannot conceiue .

2 Yea but our Sauiours wordes of s s Mat. 19. 24. a Camell passing through a needles eye , sheweth that a body may be freed from it exterior bignesse and locall extension : that is as much as if hee had said , they shew that a bodie may become no bodie , and yet be a body still . The speech is hyperbolicall : and no more prooueth a possibility of the thing therein spoken , ( as t t Piscat . in Math. 19. Piscator well obserueth answering u u De Euchar. l 1. c 14. Bellarmine , from whom he here hath it ) then of many x x Sic 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Et ex En●io Vairo , Prius pariet Locusta Lucan Bouem , i. Elephantem . other things , spoken commonly in speeches of the like kinde . * * Quantitas est de veritate corporis . Bonauent. in sen. l. 4. d. 10. q. 2. Quantitie ( saith Bonaventure ) is of the verity of a body : and a true bodie consequently cannot bee without it . And y y Quamuis substantia possit abstrahi à quā●itate : tamen quod corpus viuat & sit organicum , & non sit quantum , hoc nec esse nec intelligi potest . Ibid. though it were granted that some substance might bee without quantitie , yet it cannot be that any quicke or organicall body ( such as a Camels is , and such as hee granteth Christs to be ) should be without it . Yea and therefore also z z In altari non tantum est corporis Chri sti veritas , into etiam quantitas . Bonauen . ibid. not the veritie onely ( as this fellow would haue it ) but the quantity also ( as Bonauenture auoweth , and this fellow denieth ) that is , the exterior bignesse of Christs body must needs bee with it in the Sacrament , if it bee at all there .

3. To conclude this wilde discourse indeed , because we are in it compelled to follow one that turneth round till hee be giddy againe : when wee reason thus from the nature and property of a true body to be but in one place ; wee reason no otherwise ( howsoeuer hee esteeme it a wilde kinde of reasoning ) then wise and learned men , yea Angels too , haue taught vs to reason . For as the Angell reasoneth with the nomen that came to seeke Christ in the Sepulcher ; a a Mat. 28. 6. He is not here ; for he is risen againe : which were no good Argument , if his bodie might haue beene in two places at once : So the ancient Fathers also reason in their disputes against Heretikes , where it stood them vpon to speake warily , and not to argue wildly , as this giddy braines tearmeth it . b b Theodo●et . dialog. 2. Christs body ( saith Theodoret ) albeit it be now glorified , yet is a bodie still , and hath the same circumscription that before it had Which ( as the c c Act. 1. 11. Angels teach ) shall come in the same manner as it was seene goe to heauen . But they saw it then circumscribed . Yea our Lord himselfe saith , d d Mat. 24. 30. You shall see the Son of Man come in the clouds . But that nature cannot be seene , that is not circumscribed . He sheweth then that his body is circumscribed . It is not therefore changed into another nature , but it remaineth still a true body , though filled with divine glory . So Fulgentius , e e Fulgent . ad Thrasimund . sib . 2. One and the same Christ ( saith hee ) is both locall man of man , and God infinite of his Father . One and the same according to his humane nature f f Absens coelo cum esset in terra ; & derelinquens terram , cum ascendisset in coelum . absent from heauen , when he was here vpon earth , and leaving the earth when he went vp into heauen : but according to his divine and infinite nature , neither leaving heauen , when he came downe from heauen ; nor forsaking the earth , when hee went vp into heauen . Which may most certainely bee gathered from his owne wordes , who to shew that his humanity was locall , said , g g Ioh. 20. 27. and 16. 28. I goe vp to my Father , &c. Now how went he vp into heauen , but because hee was locall and true man ? Or how is hee h h Mat. 28. 20. yet present with his faithfull ones , but that hee is infinite and true God ? And Uigilius most euidently against Eutyches ( to passe by all other places , which are more then one in him ) i i Vigil . contr. Eutych . lib. 4. If the Word ( saith hee ) and the Flesh were both of one nature , how should not the flesh bee euery where as well as the word ? For k k Quando in terra fuit , non erat in coelo . when it ( to wit , Christs flesh , or his body , his humanity ) was on earth , it was not in heauen ; l l Et nunc quia in coelo est , non est vtique in terra . and now because it is in heauen , it is not on earth : for that according to it m m Phil. 3. 20. we expect Christ to come from heauen , whom according to the Word ( that is , his Deitie ) we beleeue to be with vs on earth . It is apparent therefore that the same Christ is of a twofold nature , and is every where indeed according to the nature of his diviniti● ; but is contained in a place according to the nature of his humanity . And hee concludeth his discourse thus ; n n Haec est fides & confessio Catholica , quam A. postoli tradiderunt , Martyres roborauerunt , & fideles nunc vsque custodiunt . This is the Catholike Faith and Confession , which the Apostles haue deliuered , Martyrs haue confirmed , and the faithfull keepe to this day . And if this be so , then sure the Popish doctrine that affirmeth the cleane contrary to it , is not .

Diuision 12.

PAge 16. and 17. My Adversarie wisely after his accustomed N. P. manner vndertaketh by comparisons to declare the true manner of Christs body and blood being conveighed vnto vs in the Sacrament : and that so easily as if there were no difficulty at all in the explication thereof ; whereas o o Lib. 4. instit. c. 17. sect. 7. 10. & 32. Caluin himselfe accounteth it an inconceiuable and vnexplicable mysterie , worthy with wonder and astonishment to bee by vs beleeved , how ( to wit ) Christs body so remotely distant as heauen is from the earth , can be eaten and receiued by vs . p p Beza de re Sacram. q. 9. Wee confesse it ( saith Beza ) to be an incomprehensible mystery , wherein it commeth to passe that the same body which is and still remaineth in heauen , and is no where but there , should be truely communicated to vs who are now on earth and no where else . This indeed is a mystery and true Iewell of Protestanticall doctrine harder to be conceived , as Caluin , Beza , and other chiefe Calvinists seeme sometime to meane it , then to conceiue all those true miracles , which we teach to be wrought by God in the consecration and vse of this wonderfull Sacrament . Yea surely it implyeth an evident contradiction that Christs body should be truely given together with the sacramentall signes , as Caluin expressely affirmeth , and so by vt eaten , that is no neerer then the top of heauen is to the mouth of such as receiue him . If by faith onely and a gratefull memory of his passion we eate Christ in the Sacrament , as this Minister solueth the former riddle ; no more present therein , nor in any other manner conioyned with the sacramentall signes , then the land conveighed by an Indenture sealed is present or conveighed with the seale thereof , or then he is present in the water of Baptisme : ( they are his owne comparisons ) then is their Sacrament a bare signe and figure of Christs body , having no mystery at all worthy of admiration in it . For what wonder is it for a man to eate one thing thinking vpon another ; bread ( for example ) remembring our Saviours passion ? And then are Caluin , Beza and many more of their learnedest companions meer Iuglers and Impostors , who seeke to plaister rotten wals , and maske with great wordes the naked breadinesse of their Protestanticall Sacrament .

AT the end of this Argument I answer an Obiection , T. G. how Christs body and blood can be conveighed vnto vs , or eaten and drunke of vs in the Eucharist , if hee be not there present . Which Question from the Fathers ( as you heard before ) may in a word be soone answered . Because our Sauiour shewed it by those wordes of his concerning his ascension , & his speech therunto annexed , to be a spirituall not a corporall kind of communication . And if they will heare one of their owne Bishops , Iansenius ; hee will tell them , that q q Iansen . in concold . Euang. c. 59. to eate Christs flesh and drinke his blood is to beleeue in his Incarnation and in his passion and blood , sheading ; and that so by faith either of them are both present with vs , and conueighed to vs as well in the Sacrament , as out of it . But hereupon this mine Aduersary befooling me for my labour , for taking such a task vpon me , to answer such a Question ; saith , I vndertake to declare that by comparisons , as if there were no difficulty at all in it , c c All this of Calvin and Beza he borroweth from Bellarmine de Euch. l. 1. c. 1. which Calvin and Beza confesse to be a mysterie , vnconceiuable , incomprehensible , inexplicable , yea which ( as wee hold it ) implyeth an evident contradiction : affirming that Christ is no more present therein , nor in any manner conioyned with the sacramentall signes , then the land conveighed by an Indenture sealed is present with the same , or then hee is present with the water in Baptisme . Whereupon hee worthily inferreth ; that this our Sacrament then is but a bare signe or figure of Christs body having no mystery at all worthy of admiration ; and Calvin and Beza , &c. are but Iuglers and Impostors .

It might well haue been one of Hercules his labours to purge this mans writings . Augaeus his stable was not fuller of durt and dung , then they are of foule and filthy corrupt matter , and of lowd and lewd lies .

1. Where doe I affirme it to bee a matter without all difficulty fully to explicate the admirable efficacy and operation of divine mysteries , or the manner how the same is effected ? I shew onely by some comparisons ( and those such as the Apostle warranteth the vse of ) how Christ may being absent , bee truely and effectually conueighed and assured vnto vs . But followeth it thence that I hold the thing it selfe for the manner of effecting it to haue no difficulty at all in it ? Doe not the ancient Fathers hold the Trinitie an vnsearchable mysterie ? And yet what is more common among them then s s See Greg. Naz. ad Nectar . and Aug. de Trinit l. 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. & de verb. Ap hom 1. &c. by Comparisons and similitudes to shew how in one nature there may be a plurality of persons ? This Disputant himselfe among other wondrous workes reckoneth the resurrection of mens bodies for one : will hee say that the Fathers therefore deeme that there is no difficulty in it , because t t See Tertull. de resurr. carn. Athenag . de resurr. &c yea the Apostle himself 1Cor . 15. 35 , 36. 37. by sundry similitudes they endeauour to proue a possibilitie of it ; notwithstanding the frequent and successiue conuersions of them into other things altered and consumed , as hee speaketh ?

2. Let him shew how it implieth an evident contradiction , to say that Christs bodie is truely given with the sacramentall signes , though it bee no neerer then heauen-top is to the mouthes of the receivers . How this may be , without colour of contradiction , not in the Sacrament onely , but out of it also , when as the thing is done spiritually , beside the comparisons that I expresse it by , his owne u u Iansen . vbi sup. Iansenius will shew ; yea or his owne Albert will enforme him , where hee saith , that x x Manducantes non mandu●ā● , & non manducantes manducant . A●bert ▪ de Sacram . Euchar. serm. 27. Some eate and yet eate not ; and some eate not , and yet eate . The former hee meaneth of those that eate vnprofitably in the Sacrament ; the latter of those that eate spiritually out of it . If out of the Sacrament men may truely receiue Christs body , though it be no neerer then heauen top to their mouthes ; then is it no such strange paradox as should imply contradiction , to say that the selfe same is done in the Sacrament also . I will tell him of a stranger matter . Many thousands thus did eate Christs flesh a thousand yeeres before hee was in the flesh . For howsoeuer hee required before to haue it prooued ; and Bellarmine y y Paulus nusque dicit escam vel potu●… illum fuisse Christum : non aquam , sed Petram . Bellar. de Euch. l. 1. c. 4. in diuerse places would faine deny it , and in z z Non sumebant reipsa carnem Christi , sed effectum eius . Ibid. l. 1. c. 13. Esca & potus ille non propter effectum spirituales dicuntur . Idem de sacr. effect . lib. 2. c. 17. Nec fuerunt Sacramenta . Ibid. effect sometime doth , though directly and absolutely he dare not : yet it was shewed before out of Augustine : to whom I now adde Gregorie Nyssene : who in his tenth Sermon on the Canticles , speaking of those wordes , a a Cant. 5. 1. Eate and drinke my friends , b b Ei qui mysticas illas Euangelii voces intelligit , nullum apparebit discrimen inter hoc loco posita verba , & institutam ibid mysterii celebrationem &c. Greg. Nyss. in Cant. Ser. 10. There is no difference ( saith hee ) betweene the wordes here vsed , and the words vsed in the Institution of the Eucharist . For that which hee exhorteth vs to doe in the one , c c Idem Hic & id temporis sac●um est . was then also done in that divine meate and drinke . And very many , yea the most of their owne writers vniformly confesse it . Thomas Aquinas on 1 Cor. 10. d d 1 Cor. 10. 3 , 4. They did eate all the same spirituall meate : that is , e e Id est , corpus Christi in signo spiritualiter intellecto . Christs body in a signe spiritually vnderstood : and dranke all the same spirituall drinke : to wit , Christs blood in a signe . g g Manducabant Christum spiritualiter . They did eate Christ spiritually ; according to that , h h Crede & manducasti Aug in Ioan. tr. 25. Beleeue and thou hast eaten . i i Anselmi nomine prostant , sed Har●aei sunt commentarii illi . Vise Fontanum in praefat. & Posseuin . in Appar . Anselm , or Hervae●…s rather that goeth vnder his name , k k Eandem escam corporis Christi , quam nos in pane manducamus , ipsi manducauerunt in Manna : & eundem potum sanguinis Christi , quem nos ex calice bibimus , ipsi biberunt ex petra . They did eate in the Manna the same food of Christs body that wee eate in Bread ; and the same drinke of Christs blood that wee drinke out of the Chalice , did they drinke from the Rocke . Hugh of S. Uictors ; The same ( saith hee ) l l Idem significantem , & idem efficientem . that is , signifying the same , and having the same effect . And Hugh the Cardinall ; m m Eundem cibum spiritualem , in Manna significatum , i. corpus Christi : eundem potum spiritualem , sanguinem Christi biberunt . They did eate signified in the Manna the same spirituall meate , that is , the body of Christ ; and dranke the same spirituall drinke , the blood of Christ : and this did they by faith according to that of Augustine ; Beleeue and thou hast eaten . If Christs flesh then might be spiritually eaten by faith so long before it was ; and it implyeth no contradiction f Scilicet , Christi sanguinem in signo . n Aug in Ioan. tract. 25. to say that Christs flesh was so eaten even before his Incarnation ; much lesse doth it to say , that it is now spiritually eaten , though locally and corporally it be no neerer then heauen-top is to the mouth or lips of him that so eateth it . Faith like o o Absentes prosentes facit . Turpilius . Quid enim tam presens est inter absentes quam per epistolas & alloqui & audire quos diligas ? Hier. ad Nitiam . an Epistle , maketh things and persons p p Nam rerum absentium presens est fides . Aug. de Trinit. l. 13. c. 1. Quem & vide sup. ex tr. 50. in Ioan. & epist. 89. absent present . Nor doth a spiritual feeding necessarily require a corporall presence of that that is fed on .

3. Where say I , that Christ is no otherwise conioynrd with the Sacrament , then the land with the Indenture and seale of it ? I say onely q q Quo modo etiam Caluinum hoc explicasse docet Bellar. de Euchar . l. 1. c. 10. Sed & longe ante Caluinum Bern. de temp. 54. Datur annulus ad investiendum de haereditate aliqua . &c. that Christs body maybe and is as effectually conveighed vnto vs by the one , as land is conveighed to vs by the other , though neither of them be locally or materially present . And if no more then so were done in the Sacrament , yet were there much more done thereby , then by their owne confession is done by their orall and corporall manducation ; in which manner they grant themselues that many so eate Christ , as yet hee is neuer effectually conueighed or assured vnto , to be theirs .

4. I say indeed that Christ is as truely present in the Word ( which he slyly passeth by , and maketh not a word of ) and in Baptisme as in the Eucharist ; and wee receiue him as really and as effectually in the one as in the other . Nor doth hee answer one word to the allegations of the Fathers to that purpose produced : To which may be added that of Tertullian , which shall hereafter be recited : And this of Augustine , which he saith of Mary , that s s Audeo dicere ; ipsum manducabat , quem audiebat . Aug. de diueri . serm. 27. shee did eate him whom shee heard : and prooueth what he saith by that place of Iohn , t t Ioh. 6. 51. I am the living bread , which whosoeuer eateth shall liue for euer . As that also of Ambrose ; u u Panem illum manducat , qui ea quae scripta ●…t seruat . Ambros. in Luc. 7. He eateth that bread , that observeth Gods word . And further also that x x De Euchar. l. 1. c. 7. Bellarmine acknowledgeth that y y Clem Alex. paedag . l. 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 . 6. Clemens of Alexandria , z z Basil. Caes. epist. 141. Basil of Caesarea , ( he might haue added r Tertul. de resur . carn. See Diuis . 14. Sect. 7. num. 2. a a Origen . in Gen hom. 10. & in Numb . hom. 17. & 32. Origen also , and b b Chrys. in Ioan hom. 46. Chrysostom ) c c Hieron in Psal. 147. and Hierome apply those words of our Sauiour , d d Ioh. 6. 54 , 56. He that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , &c. to the word : which howsoeuer indeed they bee not directly spoken of there , yet certaine it is that both in the iudgement of those Ancients , ( who else would not so haue applied it ) and in truth it selfe also ( for neither dare Bellarmine himselfe therein controule them ) the thing there spoken of is in and by it also effectually performed . But to passe by the Word , and the vnutterable effects of it , together with the vnconceiuable manner , whereby it either worketh vpon our soules , or conueigheth Christ into our soules : for in receiuing of it we e e Ioh. 1. 11 , 12. & 12. 48. receiue Christ in it : Doe not the ancient Fathers call the Sacrament of Baptisme an ineffable mysterie , as was cited out of Gregorie Nyssene a little before ? Yea doe they not speake as much of the dignitie and excellency , and of the vnconceiuable and vnutterable efficacy of it , as either Calvin or Beza doe of the Eucharist ? And yet this shamelesse and blasphemous beast sticketh not to say , if Christ be no otherwise present in the Eucharist then hee is in Baptisme , it is but a bare signe or figure , hauing no mystery at all worthie of admiration . And so by necessary consequence he taxeth those Worthies ( to speake in his fribald In part borrowed also from Bellarmine ●e Euch. l. c. 1. language ) as meere Iuglers and Impostors , that ( in speaking so honourably of it , and ascribing such admirable power and efficacy vnto it ) seeke to plaister rotten walles , and maske with great wordes the naked watrinesse of their Baptisme , by them so much admired . Let him shew how with any colour at all , he can here cleere himselfe of impietie and blasphemy . And let him ( if hee dare ) deny that Christ is effectually receiued both in the Word and in g g Nulli est aliquatenus ambigendum tunc vnūquemque fidelium corporis & sanguinis Christi participem fieri quando in baptismate membrum Christi corporis efficitur etiamsi antequam illum panem comedat , &c. de hoc seculo abscedat . Gratian. ex August , de consecr , dist. 4. & Biel in Can. Miss. lect. 36. Baptisme : in neither whereof yet there is any such reall transmutation , or corporall presence , as they necessarily require vnto the receiuing of Christ in the Eucharist .

Diuision 13.

MY Aduersaries next Argument from the qualitie of N. P. the Communicants , page 18. is this ; If Christs body be really and corporally present in the Eucharist , then all that eate thereof must of necessity eate Christ in it . But many eate of the Eucharist , that yet eate not Christ in it : for none but faithfull and liuely members of Christ eate him in this Sacrament . In which Argument hee endeavoureth to prooue one falshood by another , equally by vs denyed ; because the holy Fathers expressely affirme that Iudas and the Corinthians blamed by Saint Paul receiued , albeit vnworthily , and to damnation , the body of Christ , as the Apostles words 1 Cor. 11. euidently import ; and when S. Augustine and others seemed to deny them to receiue Christ in the Sacrament , they speake not of bare sacramentall , but of profitable and fruitfull receiuing of him .

MY sixt Reason is taken from the qualitie of the Communicants . T. G.

The Argument is briefly this ;

Many eate of the Eucharist , that eate not Christ in it :

Ergò Christ is not corporally in it :

The Antecedent is thus prooued :

None feed on Christ but the faithfull ; such as be in Christ , and liue by Christ :

But many eate of the Eucharist that are vnfaithfull , and are out of Christ : Ergò , &c.

The Proposition of this latter Syllogisme he denyeth , and saith it is a meere falshood : and why so ? forsooth they deny it themselues . And why doe they so ? because the holy Fathers say that Iudas and the Corinthians blamed by S. Paul , did receiue Christs body , as the Apostles words evidently import .

1. For the Apostle , he saith expresly , h h 1 Cor. 11. 27. He that eateth this bread : as plainely as can bee telling vs more then once or twice , that it was bread that they did eat , though tearmed also Christs body ( as hath oft beene said , and as Augustine sheweth ) because a Sacrament of it .

2. Is not this shamelesse dealing to say the Fathers affirme that Iudas receiued Christs naturall body ( for of that is the question ) yet not alleadging any one tittle out of any of them for the proofe of it ? and that when the saying of one them is produced directly to the contrary , that Iudas ate Christs bread , but not the bread Christ ; which he answereth not a word to . If they say that Iudas ate with the rest Christs body ; they expound themselues what thereby they meane , to wit , i i Panis Christi datus est Iudae . Aug. in Ioan. tr. 62. Christs bread , k k Tunc Iudas Christi corpus accepit , quando omnibus eis distribuit Sacramentum corporis & sanguinissui , vbi & ipse Iudas erat Ibid. the Sacrament of his body .

§ 2. Yea but the Fathers , when they deny wicked men to rece●● Christ in the Sacrament , they speake not of bare sacramentall , but of profitable and fruitfull receiuing of him .

1. It is true indeed , they speake not of bare sacramentall eating . And who saith they do ? Or what is this tothe purpose ? what is it but that I say ? They speake not of bare sacrametall eating , when they say , wickedmen eat not Christ in the Eucharist , but they speake of it , when they say they do eat yet of the Eucharist ; wherein they should eat Christ , were Christ corporally in it , which they say they doe not .

2. They say ( you haue their owne wordes ) that it is not possible for any wicked man to eate Christs flesh and drinke his blood , albeit they doe gnaw or chew the Sacrament with their teeth : because our Saviour saith ; l l Ioh. 6 56. Whosoeuer eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , abideth in mee ; and m m Ioh. 6. 51. whosoeuer eateth of this bread shall liue for euer .

3. This Answer implieth that Christs body it selfe may vnfruitfully and vnprofitably be eaten : as if the ancient Fathers had dreamed of a twofold eating of it , a worthy and profitable , and an vnworthie and vnprofitable eating . To which I might answer with his owne Bishop I ansenius , his words ; n n Iansen . concord . cap. 59. He that vnworthily eateth the bread of life in the Sacrament , doth not truely eate of that bread of which it is said , o o Ioh. 6. 48. I am the bread of life ; and p p Ioh 6. 55. My flesh is meate in deed . And hee addeth , that it were an absurd thing to expound our Sauiour where he saith , q q Ioh. 6. 51. If a man eate of this r Ioh. 6. 49. bread he shall liue for euer ; as if he should meane ; If a man eate worthily of this bread , he shall liue for euer : as if any man could eate vnworthily of it , as some did of the Manna , and eternally died . But heare we Augustine in a word what hee saith hereof , and so learne we to expound Augustine and other the Ancients , not by this idle fellowes friuolous conceits , but by Augustine himself : s s Huius rei sacramentum de mensa Dominica sumitur , quibusdam ad vitam , quibusdam ad exitium . Res verò ipsa cuius Sacramentum est , omni homini ad vitam , nulli ad exitium quicunque eius particeps su● erit . August , 〈…〉 an . tract. 26. The Sacrament hereof ( saith hee ) to wit , of Christs body and blood and our vnion with either ) is taken at the Lords table , by some to life , by some to death : But the thing it selfe whereof it is a Sacrament , is taken by euery one that partaketh thereof to life ; by none to death . And if of all to life , by none to death , then vndoubtedly not vnworthily or vnprofitably of any .

Diuision 14.

LAstly , when pag. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , and 23. hee argueth that Christs body cannot be in the Eucharist : first , because N. P. then it should be broken as the bread is broken . Secondly , it should be subiect to many vndecencies , as corruption , putrefaction , mice-eating and other foule abuses apt to happen to the bread and wine of the Sacrament . I answer him that Christs body being in it selfe now glorious and impossible , and after a spirituall and indivisible manner present in the Sacrament , cannot be in it selfe broken or otherwise abused then Angels in assumped bodies can bee wounded , or then the Maiesty of the diuine person in Christ was by thornes torne , nayles pierced , or other torments defaced : for all such indignities and painfull alterations , were immediately onely inflicted on the corporall nature of our Sauiour defaced vtterly by them , and touched not immediately the diuine person , albeit personally therein subsisting : So all indignities and alterations happening to the sacramentall signes touch not at all the body it selfe of our Sauiour impassibly and iudiuisibly vnder them , more then the maiesty it selfe of the diuine nature-present in all creatures is defiled in fonle places , &c.

Such Arguments as these made against our Sauiours reall true presence in the Sacrament by our inconsiderate Aduersaries , are like to those other Arguments wont to bee made by the Eutycheans , Nestorians , Arians , and other ancient Heretickes , against the diuinity of our Sauiour , and personall vnion of two natures in him ; as that it was not fit or reasonable to be conceiued , that either God so vnited with man , or man deified by personall assumption should be torn with whips , thornes , and nayles , spet vpon , buffeted , and finally die in agonies and torments ; that fleas and flies should sucke the blood of God , bite his flesh , &c. which indeed is more then can be done vnto the same , as it is here in the Sacrament , euen when mice eate the sacramentall signes , or when in our stomacks wee receiue them , or by fire wee consume them , or ●…wise abuse them , Christ being not quantitatiuely and corporally with them extended , and so , not to be touched or altered by any corporall action done about them . And holy soules considering with what humility and effusion of his bounty the Son of God was pleased to institute this great Sacrament , affording therein for his glory and our great good his owne comfortable presence vnto vs , haue iust reason to cry out his mercy , and to admire his wisedome , power and goodnesse wonderfully manifested in this second exhiminition of himself , as I may iustly call this Sacramentall presence , or hiding of himselfe in this Sacrament , to become thereby an heauenly food and diuine refection of soules deuontly receiuing him ; as also a louing spouse visiting , embracing , delighting , adorning and enriching them with his presence , daily triumphing himselfe in his victory ouer Sathan , and our redemption solely and abundantly purchased by his passion ; and making vs also to triumph with him : And whereas the Diuell once by his ministers Iewes and Gentiles , caused his blood to be separated from his body , he deuised to haue that real separation mysteriously continued and daily exhibited to the f●ce of his eternall Father for vs , which is t t 1 Cor. 11. the declaring of the Lords death till he come , mentioned by the Apostle .

MY last Argument is taken from those things that T. G. are done abo●… , or may befall the consecrated creatures , which if they be Christs body and blood must needs befall Christ , as fraction , corruption , putrefaction , mitebreeding , mice , eating , &c.

To this he answereth ;

1. That though these things be done to or befall the Sacrament , yet Christs body being now glorious and impassible , and after a spirituall and indiuisible manner present , it can no more thereby be broken and abused then Angels in assumpted bodies can be wounded , or Christs Deity was wounded or pierced on the Crosse.

1. We take what hee granteth . Christs body is now glorious and impassible : and therefore not subiect vnto such indignities , as these creatures are : and the one consequently is not the other . Yea , is Christs body it self impassible ? What is it then , that ( as Origen speaketh ) goeth into the draught ? &c. which this Defendant taketh no notice of , because hee knoweth not what to say to it . Or let him resolue what those ashes , that they will to be reserued for reliques or what those mites are made of , that breed in the consecrated bread , when either they burne it , and so deale with it as they doe with Heretickes , or reserue it ouer long .

2. It is present in a spirituall manner , Had hee but added , onely , he had marred all : hee had beene a foule Hereticke , and perchance might fare no better , if he would stand to his words , then this their little God almighty doth , when he groweth hoary . But is hee come to that now , Christ is spiritually in the Sacrament ? What is become ( I maruell ) of that carnall and corporall presence then , that they prate so much of ? and for want whereof they so much vilifie the Protestantical Communion ? Or what is the reason why hee could not endure to heare , that those wordes of our Sauiour , of eating his flesh , Iohn 6. should be spiritually vnderstood ?

3. If these things cannot befall Christs body , because it is after a spirituall manner present ; then belike these things may befall it , yea must needs befall it when they doe fall out , if it be present in a carnall or corporall manner ; which u u Carnaliter . Bellar. de Euchar . l. 2. c. 12. Corporaliter . Idem ibid. l. 1. c. 12. Bellarmine granteth it is , and they sticke not vsually to afifrme .

4. If Christs body bee in an indiuisible manner there , what is it that is there broken ? Or what did our Sauiour breake at his last Supper ? at which time also his body was not indiuisible , or x x As themselues grant . Duran . ration . diuin. l. 4. p. 4 and 6. part . Can. & Thom. sum . p. 3. q. 81. a. 3. ex Innocent. 3. de sacr. altar . l. 4. c. 12. impassible . Or how doth Pope Nicholas tel vs that Christs y y Corpus ipsum . body it selfe is sensually broken ? Where marke ( I pray you ) how the Arguments and Allegations produced to prooue the thing broken in the Sacrament to be bread , and to shew the absurdity of their doctrine in this point , as well of Pope Nicholas that saith that Christs very body it selfe is broken and torne in peeces , as also of others that say , that a a Quidam dicunt quia nihil ●bi frantur . Lombard . sent. l. 4. d. 12. C. nothing is broken at all , or nothing but accidents only , here is not a word answered . The hoast ( they say ) is Christs body , and b b Durand rational diuin. l 4. p. 4. c. 3. Et Biel in Can. Miss. lect 80. Frangit sacerdotes hostiam . the Priest breaketh the hoast : and yet he breaketh not Christs body . For Christs body neither is nor can be broken . We may reason well backward : Christs body is not broken : But the hoast is broken : The hoast therefore is not Christs body . Or Christ is not diuided : But the hoast is diuided : The hoast therefore is not Christ .

5. Christs body , though it be there , yet it cannot be abused . No ? Is it not abused when the drunken Priest speweth it vp againe ? which their Church Canons therefore make prouision for . Or is it not abused , when it is burnt by them and vsed like an Hereticke ? Or when it is deuoured and swallowed downe by mice and rats ? as their owne Schoolemen confesse . How is it then that their S. Clement giueth S. Iames such charge as you heard before of it , least some foule abuse befall Christs body ?

6. Yea but , though it bee so , yet is it no more abused , then an Angell in an assumpted body , can bee wounded , or Corpus spiritale , non spiritus sicut animale corpus non est anima sed corpus : ita & spiritale corpus non spiritum debemus putare sed corpus . Aug. ep. 146. Christs Deity was on the Crosse. Is Christs humanity then turned into his Deitie ? Or hath ᶜ Christ now assumed the nature of Angels , and so is now become a Spirit ? It is a spirituall body ( saith Augustine ) yet not a Spirit : As an animal body is not a soule , but a body ; so such a spirituall body as the Apostle speaketh of , is not a spirit but a body . But e e Quis audeat opinari vel Christi corpus spiritale non resurrexisse , vel si spiritale surrexit , iam non corpus fuisse sed spiritum ? who dare say either that Christs body rose not againe a spirituall body : or if it did rise againe a spirituall body , that it was no more a body now but a Spirit ? When hee himselfe refuteth this opinion in his Disciples ; who when they tooke him for a d 1 Cor. 15. 44. Spirit , f f Luk. 24. 39. he bad them , Feele , and see ; for a spirit had not flesh and bones , as they saw hee had . g g Iam igitur illa caro spiritale erat corpus , n●c tamen spiritus erat , sed corpus . Euen then therefore was that flesh of his a spirituall body , and yet was it a bodie and not a Spirit . And Bellarmine himselfe , h h Corp. Christi , vt est in Bucharistia , est verum , reale , naturale , animatum , quantum , coloratum , &c. & caro corporalis , non spiritualis , nisi vt obediens spiritui in omnibus Bellarm. de Euchar. liq . 1. cap. 2. Christs body , as it is in the Eucharist , is a true , reall , naturall , liuing , big , coloured body : and the flesh of Christ is corporall , not spirituall , vnlesse we take spirituall as the Apostle doth , for obedient to the spirit . It is absurd then to reason from Christs God-head to his man-hood ; or from an Angell in an assumpted body to Christs pretended body in the Eucharist ; or in things concerning the true nature of a bodie , from a Spirit to a bodie . An Angell could not be hurt , though the body assumed by him should bee hacked or hewed asunder : but i i Gabr. Biel in Can. Miss. sect. 80. Corpus Christi cum sit animatum & organicum , si frangeretur & diuideretur , corrumperetur . Christs bodie ( saith Biel , one of their Schoolemen ) being a liuing and organicall bodie , if it should be broken and diuided , would be destroyed .

§ 2. Such Arguments ( hee saith ) as these were made by the ancient Heretickes , to wit , the Eutychians , Nestorians , Arrians , &c. against our Sauiours diuinitie and the personall vnion of two natures in him , viz. that it was vnfit to conceiue that God to be man so vnited , or man Deified should be beaten , buffetted , whipped , torn with nayles and thorns , &c.

1. It is true that some Heretickes ; yet not the Eutychians ( how should they argue against Christs Deitie , that held his humanity wholly turned into it ? ) no nor the Arrians ; but the Nestorians , and long before them the Marcionites ( whose absurd dotages these men reuiue againe ) made obiection of the things here spoken of . But hee knoweth well enough , what was then answered them ( if he know ought at least in the Fathers , whom he would seeme to haue at his fingers ends ) by those that refuted them ; to wit , that our Sauiour was then in a state of humiliation ; whereas now he is in a state of glorification ; and freed consequently from all those infirmities and indignities that hee was then content to expose and subiect himselfe vnto , to bring vs vnto glory .

2. They obiected these things truely ; but without iust cause then : We obiect them , though not supposing them to be true , yet finding them to follow necessarily from their carnall conceits , vpon iust ground against them . And belike hee findeth himselfe and his , guilty of exposing & subiecting Christ glorious body ( a thing most impious ) to such indignities a new .

§ 3. Yea but ( saith this Fantastick ) there is a second exhiminition of Christ in this sacramentall presence , or hiding of himselfe in this Sacrament .

1. In the beginning of his Discourse he came ouer me for writing a bad band . I know not whether the faire band be his owne or no that his owne Discourse is written in . If it be ( sure I am ) his Schollarship is very small , that putteth exhiminition for exinanition : for so I suppose his meaning is ; because I finde it so in k k Turrian . de Euchar. tract. 1. cap. 11. Turrian ; from whom it is like enough hee had it , fathered vpon one Methodius , whom Bellarmine was much to blame that hee ouerslipt , when hee mustered his Fathers for Christs corporall presence in the Sacrament . But here is a new doctrine indeed , and yet most true , if all be as they say , that our blessed Sauiour is returned to a state of exinanition , that is , humiliation , deiection , infirmity , indignity , paine and infamie againe : for all this the word of l l Philip. 2. 7. exinanition importeth . Belike they thinke hee suffered not enough , or was not throughly enough exinanited while he was here on earth , that they must needes bring him backe againe , to snffer such ignominious things , out of heauen , as to be chewed , to be burnt , to grow mouldy , to putrefie , to turne into mites and maggots , to passe into the bellies of mice and rats , &c. to vndergoe those things in his second exinanition , that in the first he neuer did .

2. Hee thought it before m m Diuis. 10. ad Arg. 4. a most base and unworthy thing , to imagine that Christ should haue hid himselfe in a corner from the Iewes , when they would haue stoned him in the Temple : ( as if he must of necessitie either so do , or else make his body to bee for the present as they say it is now in the Eucharist ) yet here hee telleth vs , that hee hideth himselfe in the Sacrament ; not in a corner of the Temple , but in a little round wafer-cake , or in the Pyx ( at least ) that reserueth it , so long now and then , for want of good looking to , that it breedeth pretty little quicke creatures , as good a God euery one of them , as any crumme of the hoast was , of which they were bred . But as n n Mat. 24. 26. See Dr. Sheldens Sermon on it . our Saviour forewarned vs ; though they tell vs that Christ is hid in the Pyx , or in some other secret place , yet we little beleeue them . Wee may rather beleeue that the wiser and learneder sort among them , hardly beleeue themselues herein .

3. He telleth vs here that Christ hideth himselfe in the Sacrament , and a little before that being not quantitatiuely and corporally extended therein , he is not touched nor altered with any corporall action done about it . If hee be hid there , how saith Bellarmine , that o o Super mensam visibiliter adest Bellar. de misla . l. 1. c. 12. hee is there visibly vpon the board ? Or if hee be neither seene nor touched there , why would hee make vs beleeue that Chrysostome saith , that we doe see him , and touch him , and handle him there ? Or how saith hee a little after that Christ , as a louing Spouse , doth there visitt and imbrace vs ? It is true indeed that their Priests vse much wanton dalliance with their breaden God , while they make the poore people like silly ideots , adore him , and like Ixion for a substance embrace a meere shadow .

THis is that cleane hoast , as S. Irenaeus affirmeth , which N. P. the Gentiles were by Malachy foretold to offer vnto God in all places ; and the onely sacrifice of Christians , as S. Augustine calleth it ; figured by Melchisedechs oblation of bread and wine , as the holy Fathers ioyntly teach vs , and represented by the Iewish as well bloody as vnbloody sacrifices : not distinct from the sacrifice of the Crosse , by which alone our redemption was consummated , as * * Ad Heb. 5. S. Paul teacheth vs , but the same in the hoast and chiefe offerer thereof , daily repeated now in an other vnbloody and mysterious manner by the Ministery of Christs consecrated servants . So as all Christian Nations of the world , Grecians ( for example ) Rutenians , Armenians , Mozaribites , Cataians , Ethiopians , and other Christians in India , neere mount Libanus and in other the remotest places in the world , such as haue not euer heard peraduenture of the Roman Church since their first Apostolicall conuersions , or had any commerce between themselues , are knowne to conspire ( not withstanding their other late errors ) with vs in the celebration and true beliefe of this great sacrifice and Sacrament , as Dr. Philippus Nicolai a chiefe Protestant Diuine in his Commentary of Christs Kingdome , and Sir Edwin Sands in his Relation of Religion , &c. with other aduersaries of our Church plainely acknowledge . Which may bee to any wise and well minded man an euident argument , that they receiued this common beliefe and celebration of this diuine sacrifice , from no other fountaine but the instruction and example of their first Apostolicall conuerters .

And when Luther taught by the Diuell ( as hee plainely confesseth ) vpon plaine sophismes and doceitfull arguments by himselfe particularly related ( as I haue seene in “ “ Tom. 6. Germ. Ienensi . sol. 28. in lib. de Missa angulari . Ton . 7. Wittenberg . anno Dom. 1588 , in lib. de Miss. priuata , & vnctione sacerdot. fol. 413. & fol. 228. his works first printed at Iene and now extant in the great Library at Oxford ) began to impugne that holy sacrifice which hee had formerly offered , and presented that his hereticall doctrine and whole confession of Augusta to be accepted , as he hoped by , the Grecian Churches , Ieremias their Patriarch in his Censure ( as he calleth his booke ) of the East Church , yet extant in Greeke and Latine , plainely condemneth amongst their other hereticall doctrines , this very denyall of Christs sacrifice , transubstantiation , &c. vrging ( as we doe ) invincible arguments , and the vniuersall euer continued practise of Christs Church to prooue them ; vsing ( as I my selfe haue seene in their Churches ) alike forme to ours for the mysterious and decent celebration thereof , causesly wont by our Aduersaries to be derided : whereas their owne Liturgie or forme of diuine seruice is as a shadow chosen in place of the substance , hauing nothing decent therein but what they haue stollen from vs and picked here and there out of our Missals , gracing all with a riming Psalme , sung to a liggish tune , with iarring and for the most part vntunable voyces , neuer vsed before in any Christian Churches .

The first Authors of this new Sect , were Aposta●aes of our Church for their confessed disorders of life , and miserable ends plainely discouered to haue been no Apostolicall persons : whose endeauours haue neuer tended at any time to conuert Pagans to Christ , as his true Church shall euer doe , but to corrupt Christians truly already conuerted : And they haue seldome planted themselues in any Countrey , but vpon very carnall , grosse occasions , as here in England , or with open rebellion , and tragicall acts against lawfull Princes and Magistrates , namely in Scotland , France , Flanders , Swisserland Sueuia , Polonia , seuerall Prouinces of Germany , Geneua it selfe and other Protestant territories .

The pretence of a Church and Religion like to theirs in former ages canot colourably be defended without many shifts & contradictory deuices : Some will haue it to haue beene latent and inuisible for 800. others 900 other 1000 or 1200. yeers : Others contrarily teach it to haue beene euer visible and conspicuously dilated into many Christian Countries , as the Oraculous predictions of the Prophets and expresse promises of God himselfe describe it : Others say that our Church was euer the true Church of Christ ; onely in some parts of faith not fundamentall erring , and by them since Luther reformed : Others deny that euer our Church was the true Church of Christ , or other than a preuailing faction in the true Church professing at all times visibly and in all Christian countries their present doctrine . But no one of these dreamers and Church-deuisers ( as I may tearme them ) is able before Luther to assigne in any age since Christ or Country of the world one Parish of Protestant true prosessors , or single person iumping in all points with any one sect of them : their religion indeed being like a beggers cloake patched together out of olde condemned Heresies and vnsutably composed . Their markes of a Church , to wit , preaching of true doctrine and a rightfull administration of Sacraments are such as any hereticall sect past or to come may equally peetend according to the maine grounds of Protestant doctrine ; which are to admit no common translation or interpretation of Scripture , but what themselues list for discerning of true doctrine and rightly administring Sacraments .

§ 4. HE magnifieth their Masse , by telling vs that T. G. this is that cleane hoast , that Irenaeus saith Malachie foretold ; the Christians onely sacrifice figured by that of Melchisedeck ; and represented by the Iewish as well bloody as vnbloody Sacrifices ; not distinct from the Sacrifice of Christ on the Crosse , but the same repeated in another vnbloodie manner .

1. It is true indeede that p p Iren. adu . Valent. l. 4. c. 32 , 33. Irenaeus vnderstandeth by that q q Mal. 1. 11. pure Offring in Malachie the Eucharist now in vse : and that the r r Cypr. ep. 3. lib. 2. Euseb. praepar . Euan. lib. 5. cap. 3. Hieron . ad Marcell . Aug epist 95. & alii . Avncients many of them suppose it resembled in s s Gen. 14. 18. that action of Melchisedeck : And they call it the Christians ( yet t t Heb. 13. 16 & 1 Pet. 2. 5. Vide & quot Sacrificiorum Christianorum mentionem ●aciant , Lactant instit. l. 6. c. 24. & ●5 . Te●tull contr. Marc. l. 3. & 4. Chrysost. contr. lud orat . 〈…〉 . Eiusdem nomine in Psal. 95. Cyrill . contr. Iulian. l. 10. Aug. de Ciuit. l. 10. c. 4. &c. not the onely Christian ) Sacrifice , succeeding in the roome of the Iewish Sacrifices ; the Sacrament , I say , of the Eucharist , not their Sacrifice of the Masse . In what sense Augustine will tell vs : u u Sacrificium laudis , &c. Aug. contr. ●…ust . l. 20. c. 21. A Sacrifice of praise ( saith he out of the Psalmist ) shall glorifie me ; and there is the way that I will shew him my Saluation . x x Huius sacrificii caro & sanguis ante aduentum Christi per victimas similitudinum promittebatur : in passione Christi per ipsam veritatem reddebatur : post ascensum Christum per Sacramentum memoriae celebratur . The flesh and blood of this Sacrifice before Christs comming was promised by Sacrifices resembling it : in Christs passion it was exhibited in the truth it selfe : since his ascension it is celebrated in a Sacrament of remembrance . And againe : y y Aug ibid. cap. 18. The Hebrewes in their Sacrifices of beasts , which they offered vnto God , z z Christiani peracti eiusdem sacrificii memoriam celebrant , &c. did celebrate a prophecie of the Sacrifice to come that Christ offred : And Christians now celebrate the memorie of the same Sacrifice past in an holy oblation and participation of Christs body and blood . And Procopius vpon Genesit ; a a Procop. in Gen c. 49. Christ dranke to his Disciples in mysticall Wine , saying , This is my Blood : and gaue them withall b b Typum , effigiem , vel imaginem corporis sui . a type , figure , or image of his Body , no more admitting or accepting the bloodie Sacrifices of the Law .

2. Is this their Sacrifice the very same with Christs on the Crosse. Then belike Christ is anew crucified againe . The Apostle indeede telleth vs of some c c Heb. 6 6. that crucifie Christ againe : and it is to bee feared that to many of them are indeede guilty of that sinne . But if this their Sacrifice be , as he saith , not d d Gal. 3. 1. a resemblance , or e e 1. Cor 11. 25 , 26. commemoration , as we say in the Eucharist , of Christs passion , but the very same with that of Christ on the Crosse , how can it be but a new crucifying of him indeede ? Yea then Christ must needs die and suffer againe in it . For f f Bellarm. de missa lib. 1. c. 27. a true and a reall Sacrifice ( saith Bellarmine ) requireth a true and reall death or destruction of the thing sacrificed . And againe , g g Ibid. l 1. c. 2. A sacrifice besides the oblation requireth a mutation and consumption of the thing offred ; yea and h h Ibid. l. 1. c. 25. the slaying of it , if it be a liuing thing : And , i i Ibid. l. 1. c. 2. vnto a true sacrifice is required , that that is offred vnto God in Sacrifice be vtterly destroyed . Yea euen the Apostle himselfe saith , that k k Heb. 9. 26 , 27 , 28. If Christ he oft sacrificed , then he must die and suffer ost . But l l Rom. 6. 9. Christ being once dead , he dyeth no more . Yea and Bellarmine himselfe granteth that m m Bellarm. de missa l. 1. c. 25. Christ doth not truly die in the sacrifice of the Masse : and that n n Christum non mori nisi in Sacramento seu signo repraesentante vnicam illam mortem , quam aliquando obiit . he dyeth not there but in a Sacrament or a Signe representing that one onely death that once he died . He is not therefore really , properly , or verily there sacrificed : Nor is this their Sacrifice of the Masse therfore the selfe same with that of Christs on the Crosse.

3. Is this Sacrifice of theirs a repetition of Christs sacrifice ? then belike Christs Sacrifice was imperfect . For the Apostle euidently maketh o o Heb. 10. 1 , 2 , 3 , 11 the reiteration of Offrings an Argument of imperfection . And if Christs Sacrifice then be ( as this blasphemous wretch saith ) repeated , it must needs be ( by the Apostles Argument ) defectiue and imperfect . But Christs Sacrifice was most absolutely perfect , consummate and all-sufficient . For p p Heb. 10. 10 , 12 , 14. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Athanas. Serm. contr. Arian . 3. by one oblation of himselfe once offred hath he obtained eternall redemption , and for euer consecrated them that are sanctified . Christs Sacrifice therefore needs no reiteration . Nay , it is an impious wrong to it to say it is reiterated : and such as some of their owne writers themselues either are ashamed of , or at least dare not a●ow . Peter Lombard the grand Master of the Sentences ( as they tearme him ) and q q Quanquam Petro Abeilardo honorem hunc deferat Beat. Rhenan . not . ad Tertull. the first Father of their Schoole-Diuinity ; r r Petr. Lombard . sentent . l 4. d. 12. G. moueth this Question among others , Whither that which the Priest doth be properly termed an immolation or a Sacrifice : & whither Christ be daily sacrificed , or was once onely sacrificed . Now to this Question , ( saith he ) we may briefely say , s s Vocati Sacrificium , quia memoria est & repraesentatio v●ri Sacrificii & sanctae immolationis factae in ara crucis . that that which is offred and consecrated by the Priest is called a Sacrifice and an oblation , because it is a memoriall and representation of the true Sacrifice and the holy immolation made vpon the Altar of the Crosse. t t Semel Christus mortuus in cruce est , ibique immolatus est in seipso : quotidiè autem immolatur in Sacramento , quia in Sacramento record ●…io fit illius , quod factum est semel . For once Christ died vpon the Crosse , and was there sacrificed in himselfe : but he is daily sacrificed in the Sacrament , because in the Sacrament is there a remembrance of that that was once done . Whereupon saith Augustine ; u u Aug. prefat. in 2. expos. Psal. 21. & apud Grat. de consecr. d. 2. c. Semel . Sure we are that Christ risen againe from the dead dieth no more , &c. But yet least we should forget the same , that that was once done , is in our remembrance done euery yeare , to wit , when the Passeouer is celebrated . ( x x Aug. epist. 23. And we oft therefore so speake as to say , when the Pasch is at hand , Tomorrow or the next day will be the Lords Passeouer ; whereas hee suffered so many yeeres agone ; and his passion was but once in all performed : and yet y y Dicitur illo die fieri , propter Sacramenti celebrationem , quod non illo die , sed olim factum est . in regard of the celebration of the Sacrament , is that said to bee done that day , which not that day , but long since was done ; * * Ex similitudine sacramenta nomina rerum ipsarum accipiunt . the Sacrament bearing the name of the thing thereby represented . ) z z Lomb. ibid. But is Christ then so often slaine ? No : but “ “ Sed tantum anniuersaria recordatio repraesentat quod olim factum est , &c. onely an anniuersarie memoriall doth represent that that was once , and maketh vs so to be affected , as if we saw Christ on the Crosse. And what is this more then wee also say ? or how is it the very same with Christs sacrifice on the Crosse , if it bee not it , but a memoriall of it onely ?

4. He saith , Christs sacrifice on the Crosse is repeated there in an other vnbloody manner : and yet the one is not so much as distinct from the other . What not mysticall , but mistie riddles are these ? For 1. what is the sacrifice of Christ but his bloody passion , but the shedding of his blood , and the pouring out of his soule vnto death , as a a Esa. 53. 10 , 12. the Prophet Esay expoundeth it ? And how is this then the very same with that , when it is in an vnbloody manner performed ?

2. If this be ( as they say ) an vnbloody sacrifice , and Christ be therein vnbloodily sacrificed : how is it that they affirme that b b Vera & realis effusio sanguinis Christi . Christs blood is verily shed in it , and was therein really shed before it was shed vpon the Crosse : which to prooue also c c Bellar. de sacrif . miss. l. 1. c. 12. &c. 25. & l. 2. c. 2. Bellarmine in expounding the words of Christs Institution ( contrary to the expresse d d Decret. de Sacr. Script . Concil Trident . sess. 4. Vt Latina vetus & vulgata editio pro authentica habeatur , & nullo praetex●… reiiciatur . Canon of the Councell of Trent ) leaueth their owne vulgar translation , which they count autenticall ; as also the Canon of their Masse , the principall part of their seruice ; which both haue , Qui pro vobis effundetur , That shall be ( or , is to be ) shed for you ; because they fitted not his turne so well ; and presseth the wordes according to the Greeke , e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Luk. 22. 10. Qui pro vobis effunditur ; That is poured out for you . If Christs very blood bee poured out in it , how is it an vnbloody offering ? Or how is not this a riddle ? There is blood there , but not as blood : And it is the very same with Christs bloody passion , and yet celebrated in an vnbloody manner .

3. Is it be an vnbloody offering , how is it ( as they vse to say ) a sinne sacrifice ; when f f Heb. 9. 22. without sheading of blood ( as the Apostle telleth vs ) there is no remission of sinnes , g g Bellar de miss. l. 1. c. ●5 . Nor was there euer any sinne sacrisice without blood-shead , saith Bellarmine . The truth is , that h h Heb 9. 12. Christ once for all went into the holy place with blood , and thereby obtained eternall redemption . As for their vnbloody blood , it is but a meere counterfaite . And in this case with their owne Glosse may we soone stop their mouthes , which expoundeth ( contrary to Bellarmine ) those words in the Canon , Christs blood is shead , or poured out ; i i Effunditur , i. significatur effundi . Gloss. ad Grat. de consecr. d. 2. Si quotiescunque . that is the sheading of it is signified , in the Eucharist .

4. How doe these two stand together : The one is bloody , and the other vnbloody : and yet the one is not so much as distinct from the other . Here is not a distinction ( as they say ) without a difference ; but a difference ( which is more strange ) without a distinction . Did this fellow ( thinke we ) vnderstand what he said ? But if the sacrifice of the Masse be not so much as distinct from the sacrifice of the Crosse , how doth Bellarmine tell vs that k k Bellarm de Miss. l. 1. c. 6. the sacrifice of the Crosse is of greater value then the sacrifice of the Masse ; the one of infinite , the other but of finite worth .

Whereof l l Ibid. lib. 2. cap. 4. he rendereth a two-fold reason :

1. In regard of the hoast that is offered : because Christs naturall being was destroyed in the one : whereas his sacramentall being onely is destroyed in the other .

2. In regard of the person offering , or the offerer ; because he was offered immediately in the one , whereas he is offered by a Minister or Priest in the other . And yet this fellow telleth vs , that the sacrifice of the Masse is not distinct from he sacrifice of the Crosse , but is the same both in the hoast , and the chiefe offerer thereof . These things hang together like harp and harrow , as they say . But our great Doctor ( it seemeth ) for all his bragging and blustering , is but a Nouice ; and is not yet throughly acquainted with his Master Bellarmines doctrine in all points , though hee make vse of him otherwise .

§ 5. Hee telleth vs that all Christian Nations in the world , Grecians , Rutenians , Armenians , Mozaribites , Catayans , Ethiopians , Indians , &c. conspire with them in the celebration and true beliefe of this Sacrifice , and Sacrament .

1. This is like their Iesuites tricks to tell vs of many strange miracles wrought by their Fathers in the Indies , in Goa , in America , in Iapan , in China , whither they know before hand , that m m Quod Cardano ●ul . Scal. de ●ubtil . exerc. 177. Sect. 5. Cedam potiùs quàm credam , credam citiùs quàm sciam . no man will goe to disprooue them : and whence Popish writers yet say n n Miracula & signa nulla audio . Fr. Victor . relect. 5. they can heare no such matter : yea some of their owne coat o o Signa non edimus . Ios. Acost de procur . Ind. sal. l 4 c. 4. Prodigia nulla producimus . Ibid c. 12. sometime confesse it is not so .

2. This fellow is either extreamely impudent , or grossely ignorant , that dare so boldly and confidently auouch that all these Nations conspire with them in the celebration and beleefe of Sacrifice and Sacrament : Whereas it is commonly knowne that the most of these haue their Litur gies in their owne languages , which they haue not ; communicate the people in both kindes , which they do not ; consecrate , not wafers , as they doe , but whole loaues : and many of them , the Greekes especially , not vnleauened but leauened ; hold the consecration to be effected , not by the repetition of those wordes , This is my body , but by prayer and supplication ; mingle no water with their wine ; vse no eleuation for the worshipping of the Sacrament ; nor admit the Popish Transubstantiation : as out of good Historiographers , their seuerall Liturgies , and some of their owne writers , both M. Breerwood in his booke of Religions and Languages , and Th. A. in his Discourse of Catholicke Traditions , at large shew . Ieremy the Greeke Patriarcke , whom he afterward citeth , affirmeth expresly , that * * Ieremie Patriarch . in his Answer chap. 10 alleadged by Th. A. of Cathol. Tradit . at our Sauiours last Supper that flesh of our Lord which hee carried about him was not giuen the Apostles to eate , nor his blood to drinke ; nor are they now giuen in the holy mysteries , &c. And againe , that this bread , when it is offered , is common bread offered onely to God ; but afterwards is made extraordinarie bread . And in the Councell of Florence ( as appeareth in the last Session ) some controuersie there was betweene the Greeke Church and theirs about the “ “ De Panis transmutatione . transmutation of the Elements in the Eucharist ; nor do we finde that they euer came therein to any generall accord or agreement vnto this day . Now where ( thinke you ) is this mans face or his forehead , that dare so confidently auerre that both these and all the Christian world but we conspire with them herein , both for opinion and in practise ? Yea when hee telleth vs ( to let vs vnderstand that he hath beene a Traueller ; and it may bee brought as little wit or honesty with him home , as he caried out ) that hee hath seene their celebrations the same with theirs : hee sheweth therein , ( if he say true , that he hath seene their celebrations ) that against his owne knowledge , when he thus writ , he told vs a grosse vntruth ; and wee neede returne him for the rest of them no further answer , saue that which is commonly said , that * * Quod de Vlysse Homer . Odyss 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Et quod Aristot . metaph . l. I c. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ita etiam & 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Quibus atque Poetis Quidlibet audendi ( ac fingendi ) semper fuit aequa potestas . far Trauellers may lye by authority , or ( as it may be hee hopeth ) rather , that they may tell lyes without controll . Yet when we finde him false in things neerer home , and by name heere in his assertion concerning the Greeke Churches , he must not blame vs , if wee suspect him in his report of of Mozaribites , Cathaians , Indians , Ethiopians , and others more remote ; the rather , hauing as good cards to shew as any he can produce , to the contrary .

§ 6. In the next place he runneth out in an idle discourse of Martin Luther , as if he had learned the doctrine he taught in this point , of the Diuell , ( a friuolous fable refuted long since by p p Answer to the Censure , &c. M. Charke , q q Defence of that Answer . Dr. Fulke and others : ) by the way glancing at our manner of celebration of the Sacrament ; and an inuectiue against the first Authors ( as hee falsely tearmeth them ) of our Religion ; with an apendix concerning the markes of a Church , and of the Church before Luther . Concerning all which for the present I say nothing but that of Ierome , r r Hieron . ad Laetam . Asellus lassus in via quaerit diuerticula . He is a wearie ( it seemeth ) of the worke hee hath in hand , and would faine slip aside therefore into some other debate , that it might not so well appeare how hee sticketh in the mire here . One thing ( they say ) at once doth well : and I suppose this will finde him worke enough for a while ; if he haue any stomacke to reioyne . Let him ( if hee can ) first maintaine their prodigious doctrine in the point present ; and then ( if he desire it ) hee shall further be dealt with , either in these , or in any other Controuersie betweene them and vs .

Onely for what hee saith of our Liturgie as pieced ( I know not how ) together out of their Missals , and graced with aryming Psalme sung to a liggish tune . Not to put him in minde of those apish gesticulations , and histrionicall firks , that their Masse almost wholly consisteth of , and of their Hymnes running in rime indeed , but full oft without reason , fraught with grosse Barbarismes and Soloecismes ; yea stuft with s s They professe to place their whole hope in the wooden Crosse : and so worship it ( as Aquinas confesseth ) with diuine worship . They pray to be saued by Thomas Becker a traytors blood : they entreat the Virgine Mary to command her Sonne Christ : and pray to her , that being redeemed by her , they may be able to climbe to heauen , &c. not a few impious blasphemies ; which their Collects also are not free from . Let the ancient manner of Church-seruice and celebration of this Sacrament related before out of Iustine Martyr be considered ; and then see what is wanting in ours that was then in theirs , and whether is liker to that , ours or theirs . Their Missall indeede is a meere patchery of old and new together , so euill contriued ( whatsoeuer t t Id est maximè admirandum & commend indum quod Canon Missae sit multorum aut●rum , & tamen ita aptè partes omnes in●er se iungantur , & cohaereant , vt vnius autoris videatur . Bellar. de Miss. l 2. c 19 Bellarmine prate to the contrary ) and so handsomly agreeing the one with the other , that from those very fragments of antiquitie , that remaine yet in their Masse , this very doctrine of theirs may very euidently bee confuted . For therein after consecration they pray vnto God , to accept that holy sacrifice , which of his gifts they offer , and vouchsafe to looke propitiously vpon those his gifts , and to accept them as hee did Abels offering and Abrahams sacrifice : and , that he will command them to be caried vp by the hands of his Angell , to bee presented on the high Altar in the sight of his Maiesty ; and that through Iesus Christ , by whom he continually createth , quickeneth , and blesseth all these good things : And againe , that that which they haue taken may of a temporall gift become an eternall remedie . How stand now these speeches and prayers with their Transubstantiation ? Are Christs body and blood those temporall gifts and good things , that God by Christ daily createth and quickeneth ? Or needeth Christ the Priest to entreate his Father to looke propitiously vpon him ? Or any Angell to cary him vp and present him before his Father in heauen , in whose presence and sight he is continually there ? Or is it not absurd to place u u Gen. 4. 4. Abels fatlings and x x Gen. 22. 13. Abrahams Ramme in equipage with the body and blood of Christ Iesus ? But these things ( it seemeth ) were in their ancient Liturgies , before euer this new monster was hatched , and to their owne shame & confusion are yet vnwisely still retained . And if you will see , how handsomely things therein hang together , obserue but this one passage : The Priest prayeth to God to send an Angell to fetch the holy Housell vp into heauen : ( and yet they tell vs withall , the most of them , that y y Nos vt descensum negamus , ita nec ascensum statuimus . Petr. Scarga de Euchar . art. 5. Non descendit de coelo corpus Christi : Ex Damasc. orthod. fid. l. 4. c. 14. Biel in Can. lect 54. But Pope Innocens would not haue vs ouer-curious in this point . Non oportet in talibus curiosos existere . Innocent . de Sacram. l. 4. c. 16. it neuer came from thence , nor neuer returneth againe thither ; wherein we better beleeue them then we doe some other of their fellowes that say otherwise ) and within a while after , hee swalloweth it downe himselfe ; and then praieth God ( as if he repented him of his former prayer ) z z Corpus tuum , Domine , quod sumpsi , & sanguis quem potaui , adhaereat visceribus meis . In post commun . that that which hee hath eaten may sticke fast to his guts . Let him shew any such absurdities as these ( if he can ) in our Seruice . If some pieces of Antiquity found in theirs be retained still in ours ; that is neither derogation to ours , nor commendation to theirs . Wee embrace true and sound Antiquity , wheresoeuer we finde it : their corrupt nouelties , which it suteth so euillfauouredly withall , we deseruedly reiect .

THey pretend cleare places of Scripture for each point of N. P. their doctrines wherein they differ from vs . But when they come to be duly discussed , they either make against themselues , or prooue nothing at all against vs ; as I will briefely declare in this very controuersie , for a Corollarium of my whole doctrine . For whereas S. a a Vide Bellar. lib. 1. de Euchar . cap. 5. Cyprian , S. Hilarie , Saint Ambrose , S. Chrysostome , S. Augustine , Cyrill , Hesychius , Theodoret , and vniuersally all the ancient Fathers commenting the 6. Chapter of S. Iohns Gospell haue literally vnderstood Christs promise of giuing his flesh to eate and his blood to drinke in the Sacrament , these men restraine them to a metaphoricall and spirituall eating by faith onely ; and for this their interpretation quite contrary to the iudgement of the ancient Church , they onely cite those wordes of Christ , It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing , &c. and affirme them to import that Christs wordes are figuratiuely to bee vnderstood , and not at all according to the literall signification of them , to wit , of Christs body and blood receiued in the Sacrament . Whereas at most they can import , that Christ promised not to giue his flesh and blood cannally , as the Capharnaits vnderstood him , cut ( to wit ) in pieces , and by bits eaten , as S. Augustine explicateth them ; but that Christs body and blood were to be after a spirituall manner present , and receiued in the Sacrament , which we deny not : And great Authors ( as Tolet noteth ) so expound them , as to make this sense , It is the deity or diuine spirit which is vnited with my flesh , that viuificateth by grace soules worthily receiuing it , and not by flesh alone barely of it selfe eaten . Neither of which explications prooue a figuratiue vnderstanding of Christs wordes : this being a Glosse of their owne besides the text , neuer before them taught by any Catholike Doctor : and so it can be no solide sufficient ground sor them to rely vpon for their hereticall deniall of Christs true body and blood really present and receiued in the Sacrament . For Scripture ill vnderstood is no Scripture , but Gods word abused .

§ 7. YEt in conclu●ion to say somewhat againe of the T. G. present point , hee telleth vs that S. Cyprian , Hilarie , Ambrose , Chrysostome , Augustine , Cyrill , Hesychius , Theodoret , and all the ancient Fathers vniuersally vnderstood that place of Iohn concerning the eating of Christs flesh not figuratiuely , but literally ; whereas wee contrary to the iudgement of the whole ancient Church , vnderstand them of spirituall eating by faith ; alleadging onely for this our exposition those words of our Sauiour , It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing : which wordes as Tolet sheweth , may beare another sense .

1. How prooueth hee that these Fathers so expound that place ? Forsooth , he sendeth vs to seeke the proofe of it in Bellarmine . It is enough that he saith it ; let Bellarmine ( if he can ) prooe it . But is not this impudent out-facing , to say that these Fathers all literally vnderstand it , when out of diuerse of them the contrary hath beene euidently shewed ? Yea when Augustine ( one of them ) giuing rules to expound Scripture , doth expressely affirme that the place is to be taken figuratiuely , and that it were b b Facinus & flagitium . an haynous and flagitious thing otherwise to vnderstand it ?

2. It is another vntruth as grosse as the former , to say we ground our exposition on those wordes onely . Wee vrge indeed the wordes following c c Ioh. 6. 63. The wordes that I speake are spirit and life . And we vrge and expound them no otherwise then diuerse of the Ancients haue done before vs . To omit Athanasius formerly alleadged : Augustine besides that that is in the selfe same place cited ; d d August . in Ioan. tr. 27. What meane those wordes , ( saith he ) They are spirit and life , but e e Spiritaliter intelligenda sunt . that they are to be vnderstood spiritually ? And againe , f f Idem tr. 11. He spake this that hee might g g Ne carnaliter intelligerent . not bee vnderstoode carnally ; as h h Ioh 3. 4. Nicodemus before had done . Yea and of those former wordes Thomas Aquinas out of Chrysostom , i i Ex Chrysostomo Aquin. in Ioan. 6. When Christ saith ; It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing : his meaning is , that k k Spiritualiter oportet ea quae de me sunt audire . we ought spiritually to vnderstand those things that wee heare of him : and that l l Qui carnàlites audit , nihil proficit . whoso heareth carnally , getteth thereby no good . Now to vnderstand them carnally , is to looke on the outward things onely , and to imagine no more then wee see . To vnderstand them spiritually is not so to iudge of them , but also with the inward eyes to looke on them . m m Omnia mysteria interioribus oculis aspicere . Which in all mysteries ought alwayes to be done . And Tertullian , n n Tertul. de resurr. carnis . When Christ saith that The flesh profiteth nothing ; His meaning must be drawne from the matter of his speech . For because they thought his speech hard and intollerable , o o Quasi verè carnem suam illis edendam determinasset . as if hee determined to giue them his very flesh to bee eaten ; ( or , his flesh verely to bee eaten ) to place the state of saluation in the spirit , hee premiseth ; It is the spirit that quickeneth : and then adioyneth ; the flesh profiteth nothing , to wit , to quicken . And withall he sheweth what he meaneth by the spirit : The words that I haue spoken are spirit and life . As he said before ; p p Ioh. 5. 14. Hee that heareth my word , and beleeueth in him that sent mee , hath life eternall . So that he maketh the word the quickner ; because the word is spirit & life ; and he called it also his flesh ; because the q q Ioh. 1 14. Word also became flesh ; and is therefore r r Se●…o caro factus , in causam vitae appetendus , deuorandus auditu , ●ummand●s intellectu , ●de digerendus . to be longed a●ter for life , to be deuoured by the hearing , chewed by the vnderstanding , and digested by faith . Heere is the eating that our Sauiour spake of in that place , not carnall but spirituall ; which our Aduersarie also earstwhiles confessed . Neither vrge we this alone , ( as he vntruely here affirmeth ; ) But wee vrge diuerse other passages also ( as before hath beene shewed ) wherein our Sauiour expoundeth himselfe ; obserued by Augustine long since , and by their Flaunders Bishop Iansenius of late , beside diuerse others of their owne . And if he had had any thing of moment to say against this our exposition , why did hee not then produce it , where the place was discussed ? But he thought it better and safer ( it seemeth ) to let all this alone there , lest the allegations to the contrary being then in the eie , might easily conuince him of grosse and palpable falshood .

3. Doe we alone thus expound that place ? Doe not very many of their owne writers herein agree with vs ? Or do those of theirs build onely vpon the clause he here mentioneth ? To which purpose , howsoeuer enough hath already beene said , yet for his better information concerning both the soundnes of our exposition of that place , and the reasons thereof drawne from our Sauiours owne wordes , let him heare one , though not then Pope , yet that afterward came to bee Pope , and was as learned a Pope as any of late times . Aeneas Syluius writing against the Bohemians ; s s Aeneas Syl. aepist . 130. contra Bohem. It is not ( saith he ) any sacramentall drinking , but a spirituall that our Sauiour speaketh of in that 6. of Iohn . For there is , as Albertus Magnus she weth , a threefold drinking of Christ : a sacramentall , that the Priests onely receiue ; an intellectuall , that the people take in the species of bread ; and a spirituall , which all vse that are to be saued , by daily deuout meditation ruminating on Christs incarnation and his passion : And of this drinking our Sauiour speaketh in Iohn 6. as the very series of the Euangelists wordes clearely sheweth . For when some of them that heard it , murmured , our Sauiour said , t t Ioh. 6. 61. 62 , 63. Doth this scandalize you ? What if you should see the Sonne of Man ascend where before he was ? It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing . In which wordes he declareth that hee speaketh not there of any carnall eating or drinking : But would you plainly see that he speaketh of spirituall eating , that is , by faith ? Marke what hee saith : u u Ioh. 6. 54. He that eateth and drinketh . He speaketh in the present tense , not in the future . There were euen then those that so ate him and dranke him , when as the Sacrament was not yet instituted . And how did they then eate and drinke Christ , but spiritually by faith , and loue , and doing his wordes ? For he said also before , x x Ioh. 6. 35. I am the bread of life ; hee that commeth vnto mee , shall not hunger ; and he that beleeueth in me shall not thirst . For Christs speech was figuratiue . So also the Glosser vnderstandeth this Gospell : and so doth that great Augustine , noble both for doctrine and modestie , whose glory is so great , that no mans commendation can adde to his credit , no mans dispraise can disparage him . And yet dare this shamelesse out-facer confidently affirme that none of the Fathers euer so expounded the place : and that the Heretickes ( as he esteemeth them , as if none but they so expounded it ) had no other inducement so to expound it , but those wordes onely ; y y And yet those words also doth Durand vse to prooue that Christs wordes Iohn 6. 54 , 55. are meant of eating spiritually , not corporally . In rational , diuin , p. 2. l. 4. ad 6. p. Can. It is the spirit that quickeneth , the flesh profiteth nothing : all which you see are nothing but grosse vntruths .

SEcondly , whereas we prooue that Christs wordes , This is N. P. my body , &c. as being vttered to the Apostles , to whom it was giuen to vnderstand the mysteries of Christs Church plainely , and without parable , and containing in them the institution of a Sacrament , fit in plaine wordes to be deliuered and vnderstood by all Christians bound to receiue it , are as we say literally to bee vnderstood , and not in tropicall and figuratiue senses , as our Aduersaries expound them ; producing for our opinion all the Fathers successiuely in all ages since Christ so vnderstanding them : Protestant Diuines slenderly obiect , first that of the sacramentall Chalice Christ affirmed , that he would no more drinke of the fruit of the vine , vntill after his passion : ergò it was wine contained in the Chalice : wee answer that S. Luke expressely mentioneth two Chalices , one drunke after the Paschall Lambe eaten , and the other afterwards blessed by Christ and distributed to his Apostles , and that Christ onely called the first the fruit of the vine , &c. So S. Ierome , S. Bede , and other great Authors explicate and solue this difficulty with vs . Secondly , they obiect those words of Christ , Doe this in memory of me : ergò the Sacrament is a bare memorie of Christs body and blood , &c. We answer and make S. Paul to interpret these words of our Sauiour for vs , 1 Cor. 11. saying . As oft as you shall doe this , you shal represent or declare Christs death till hee come . Which is best declared and represented by the parts of the Sacrifice and Sacrament , as they containe the very body and blood of our Sauiour in them . For so himselfe present seemeth to triumph more gloriously , and exhibite vnto vs a more liuely memorie of his passion , then if the Sacrament were no more then a bare signe thereof .

§ 8. HAuing affirmed that all the holy Fathers in all T. G. ages from Christ haue expounded the wordes of our Sauiour , ( This is my body , literally and not tropically , as they also do . The contrary wherevnto hath as clearely been shewed , as that the Sunne is vp at noone-day : nor had this trifler ought of moment to except thereunto , where the same is shewed ; and yet now craketh ( as their manner is ) of all the Fathers , when indeed they cannot bring any one vndoubted testimony to confirme what they so confidently affirme . ) Hee will at length forsooth for fashion sake vndertake to answer two slender obiections of ours to the contrary .

1. Christ ( say wee ) calleth that in the Cup or Chalice , the fruit of the vine .

He answereth that S. Luke mentioneth two Chalices , the Paschall , and the Euangelicall , or Eucharisticall ; and so S. Ierome , and S. Bede solue this difficulty .

1. Hee spake of slender obiections . And so it seemeth indeed he esteemeth them : for he returneth very slender answers to them . For who would be so senslesse as to reason on this manner , S. Luke mentioneth two Chalices : ergò our Sauiour did not speake any such thing of the Eucharisticall Cup , as yet both a a Mat. 26. 29. Mathew and b b Mat. 14 25. Marke say expressely he did .

2. Ierome and Bede ( saith he ) so solue the difficulty . He would make his Reader beleeue that Ierome and Bede had long since propounded this obiection , and so assoiled it as he doth . Whereas the truth is ; they take no notice , either of them of the two Cups , but allegorising the wordes ( as their manner is to doe many times , letting the literall sense alone ) expound the vine to be c c Esa. 5. 1 , 7. Psal. 80. 8 , 14. the people of the Iewes , and so the fruit of the vine , the legall obseruances , &c. And what is all this to the literall sense of the words , that this trifler is troubled with , and cannot tell how to auoyd ? Let him produce ( if he can ) any one Father , who denieth that Christ spake those wordes of the Eucharisticall Cup , and of the liquor therein contained . I alleadged d d Clem paedag l. 2. c. 2. Clemens of Alexandria , e e Cypr. ep. 3. l. 2. Cyprian , f f Chrysost. in Mat hom. 83. Chrysostome , g g Aug. de dogmat . Eccles. c. 75. Augustine , and might adde many others that affirme it . Yea not onely Iansenius ingenuously acknowledgeth that it can be meant of h h Nullus alius calix intelligi potest Iansen . concord . c. 131. no other then the Eucharisticall Cuppe , which onely Matthew and Marke mention : But Maldonate the Iesuite also freely confesseth that i i Orig. in Mat. tr. 30. Origen , k k Cypr. ep 68. Cyprian , l l Chrysost. in Mat. hom. 83. Chrysostome , m m Epiph. haer. 47. Epiphanius , n n Hie. on . in Mat. 26. Ierome , o o Aug. quaest. Euang. l. 1. q. 42. Augustine , p p Beda in Mat. 26. Bede , q q Futhy . ib. Euthymius , and r r Theoph. ib. Theophylact , doe all expound those wordes of it : howbeit himselfe saith that s s Non de sanguine suo , sed de vino dixit . Maldon . in Mat. 26. Christ spake there not of his blood , but of wine . Where first obserue we that Ierome and Bede ( cleane contrary to this fablers assertion , by the Iesuites confession ) expound it of the Eucharist . And secondly , conclude wee from the Iesuites owne grants : It was of that that was in the Eucharisticall Cup that our Sauiour spake those wordes , as the ancient Fathers generally and ioyntly affirme : But our Sauiour spake them not of his blood , but of wine ; saith the Iesuite : It was not his blood therefore , but wine that was drunke in the Eucharist .

2. Wee obiect the words of our Sauiour , t t Luk. 22. 19. Doe this in remembrance of me : not as this shamelesse lyer saith , therby to prooue the Sacrament to be a bare memorie of Christs body and blood : somewhat like the lye he told before , that his Adversarie should affirme it to bee nothing but bare bread and wine : but to prooue that Christ is not there corporally present : For what needeth a memoriall of him , when we haue him in our eye ? when ( if we may beleeue Bellarmine ) he is visibly present with vs ? When we see him , and touch him , as this fellow telleth vs else-where ? Or who would be so absurd as to say , I giue you my selfe to be a memoriall of my selfe ? u u Primas . in 1 Cor. 11. Vt siquis moriens relinquat ei quem diligit , pignus aliquod , &c. Idem habet & Herueus , & Haimo . It is as if a man when hee dieth ( saith Primasius ) or , x x Peregrè proficiscens . Hieron . nomine in 1 cor. 11. & Sedul . ibid. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Basil. Caes. hom. de charit . when he goeth to trauell , ( saith one that goeth for Ierome ) should leaue a pledge or a token with one that hee loueth , to put him in minde of him in his absence , and of the good turnes he hath done him ; which the partie if hee loue him entirely , cannot looke on without teares . And who would be so senselesse , as deliuering his friend a ring on his death bed , to say , I deliuer you this ring to bee a pledge of this ringe , or to be a pledge of it selfe ?

But let vs heare ( I pray you ) his Answer . Saint Paul ( saith hee ) interpreteth these wordes of our Sauiour , when he saith ; y y 1 Cor. 11. 26. So oft as you doe this , you represent Christs death , till hee come . Would any man that had either braines in his head , or wit in his braine , answer in this manner , or reason on this wise ? Christs death is represented in the Lords Supper . Ergo Christs very body and blood must needs bee there present . Yea or thus either ? In the Lords Supper is a representation of Christs death : Ergò it is not a memoriall of it . As if representation were not ordinarily of things absent ; or memorials represented not the things that they commemorate . He wanted his Bellarmine heere to helpe him out ; who where Tertullian saith , that a a Tertul. contra Marc l. 1. Panem , in quo ipsum corpus suum repraesentat . Christ represented his body in bread : b b Bellar. de Euch l. 2. c. 7. saith that to represent there signifieth c c Praesentem rem facere & reipsa exhibere . to make a thing really present . But it is well that d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the word vsed by the Apostle here , will not beare any such sense : else ( it may be ) we might haue had it .

Meane while hee should haue done well ( as his vsuall manner is else-where ) to haue snipt off or concealed at least , the last clause , Till I come . e e Etenim post eius adventum non amplius erit opus symbolis seu signis corporis , cum ipsum corpus apparebit . Theodoret. in 1 Cor. 11. For after hee is come ( saith Theodoret ) we shall haue no neede of signes or symbols of his body any more , when his body it selfe shall appeare . He were scarce in his wits ( I thinke ) that would leaue a thing with his Friends at his departure from them to bee remembred by in his absence till hee returned againe to them , that should lie lockt vp and kept out of their sight , and should neuer come in their view , but when himselfe should come personally in presence to shew it them : or should bid them by such a thing remember him , till hee came againe to them a twelue-moneth after , when as euery weeke or moneth in the meane space hee meant to returne to them , as oft as euer they desired to remember him in it . But mine Adversary thought belike that none but such silly sots should reade what hee writ , as would marke nothing but what he would haue them .

LAstly S. Paul literally declaring the institution of the Sacrament , N. P. 1 Cor. 11. to the end that the Corinthians might vnderstand the excellency thereof , maketh the sinne of such as vnworthily receiue it to consist in this , that they discerne not that bread to be the body of Christ : and his words read alone without hereticall glosses expresse plainely Catholicke doctrine . And in the Chapter before hee mentioneth benediction or consecration of the Chalice then vsed , saying , Calix benedictionis , The Chalice of benediction which wee blesse , is it not the communication of Christs blood ? and the bread which we breake , is it not the communication of Christs body ? &c. Of which words saith S. Chrysostome , this is the meaning ; That which is in the Chalice , is that which floweth out of Christs side , and wee are made partakers thereof . Which is out of the Greeke text of S. Luke plainely to be gathered : And the very manner of Christs speeches , Quod pro vobis datur , quod pro vobis effundetur ; Which is giuen for you , which shall be effused for you ; import plainely a Sacrifice of his body and blood , wherein the one is offered not to vs , but for vs ; the other was to be not infused as wine , but effused as blood for vs , &c.

§ 9. AT last remembring himselfe , wherein he failed T. G. at the first , hee will prooue out of S. Paul ( hee saith ) that Christs words are literally to be vnderstood . This had beene more seasonable , where it was questioned at first . But better at last ( we say ) then neuer .

1. The Apostle maketh ( saith hee ) this the sinne of those that vnworthily receiued the Sacrament , that f f 1 Cor. 11. 29. they discerned not the Lords body .

2. Hee , saith , g g 1 Cor. 10. 16. the bread broken is the communication of the body of Christ ; and the blessed Chalice of his blood .

Stout Arguments , and fit for such a Champion as he is .

For the former : how followeth it , Men sinne in not discerning the Lords body , when they come vnreuerently to the Lords board : Ergò our Sauiours words , This is my body , are to bee vnderstood properly . Let him heare Augustine expounding the words of the Apostle , what it is not to discerne the Lords body , to wit , h h Aug. epist. 118. c. 3. Qui hoc non discernebant à caeteris cibis veneratione singulariter debita . not to discerne that from other meates by a reuerence singularly due vnto it ; which is as he speaketh else-where , i i Idem ep. 23. in some sort Christs body , because a Signe and a Sacrament of it . Yea let him heare himselfe where he saith , k k Diuis . 8. Sect. 1. The sinne of such persons is made this by the Apostle , that they distinguish not this bread from other common bread . And then see how well they serue to prooue that that here they are alleadged for .

For the latter : Not to demand of them , how chance they oft celebrate ( contrary to both our Sauiours , and the Apostles practice ) without any breaking of bread at all ; if their paper wafer-cake at least deserue that name . Who denied euer a communication of Christs body and blood in the Sacrament ? But must it needes bee corporall ; or else it is none at all ? l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . The tongue tripping now and then telleth truth . And the truth start out of his mouth before vnawares , where he said , that Christ is present there in a spirituall manner . And in a spirituall manner ( as out of Athanasius and Augustine , yea and their owne Iansenius I haue shewed ) doe wee participate of , and communicate with the body and blood of Christ in the Sacrament ; m m Quomodo mittam manuum in coelum ? Fidem mitte ; tenuisti . Aug. in loan . tr 50. sending the hand of our faith ( as Augustine speaketh ) vp into heauen ; yea reaching it ( as I may well say ) to Christs Crosse. I will adde to the former onely one obseruation of Bernard , who in many places speaketh of this our communication with Christ : Alluding to those words of our Sauiour , n n Ioh. 6. 56. Hee that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , abideth in me and I in him : o o Bernar. in Cant. serm. 71. Et manducat nos , & manducatur à nobis ; quo arctius illi astringamur . Christ ( saith he ) both eateth vs , and is eaten of vs ; that wee may the more firmely and strictly be fastened vnto him . Otherwise should wee not bee perfectly vnited to him . For if I eate and be not eaten , he may seeme to be in me , but not I yet in him . Againe , if I be eaten , but eate not ; he may seeme to haue me in him , but not to be yet in me . For there is no absolute vnition in either of these alone . But when p p Si manducat me , vt habeat me in se , & à me vicissim manducatur , vt sit in me , quatenus integra firmaque sit connexio , &c. both he eateth me , that I may be in him ; and is eaten of me , that he may be in me ; then is there indeed a firm and an entire connexion , I being in him and hee in mee . But Christs eating of vs is not orall or corporall , but mentall and spirituall : of the like kinde therefore is our eating of him , and our mutuall participation alike in either : Which in these wordes also most sweetly doth Iansenius expresse : q q Per fidem panis iste non simpliciter sumitur , sed veluti dentibus quibusdam masticatur , &c. Iansen . concord . c. 59. By faith this bread is not simply taken , but being chewed as it were with teeth , while it is well considered what and what manner of food it is , and r r Frangitur , & in animae viscera traiicitur . so broken , it is conueighed with a kinde of delight and spirituall taste into the bowels of the soule , and s s Nobis incorporatur . is incorporated into vs , that so Christ being in an hidden and secret manner by faith vnited vnto vs , may t t Ephes. 3 17. dwell ( as the Apostle speaketh ) in our hearts , by his presence there quickening and nourishing them , and so expell all hunger and thirstinesse out of them , while he remooueth both the want of things needfull to true life , and the desire of other transitorie things . And it is the same in effect that Caluine meaneth when he saith , * * Amplius quiddam esse Christum manducare , quam in Christum credere Vide Caluin . Institut. l. 4. c. 17. sect. 5 , 6 , 7. To feede on Christ is somewhat more then barely to beleeue in him , and that it is y y Non tam ipsum credere , quam effectum eius . Ex Caiuini sent . Bellar. de Euch. l. 1. c1 . not so much beliefe u Viuificet , alat , esuriem pellat , &c. it selfe , as an effect and fruite of it . That which Bonauenture the Schooleman also not vnfitly thus expresseth : z z Bonauent. in sent. l. 4. dist. 9. quae . z. Eating ( saith hee ) is properly spoken of the body , and is by way of similitude applied to the soule . That therefore we may know what is meant by spirituall eating , wee must haue an eye vnto corporall feeding . Now in corporall manducation there are these two things , a a Masticatio & incorporatio . mastication and incorporation , or a chewing of the meate in the mouth , and an incorporating of it into the body . In like manner in spirituall eating there is first b b Spiritualis masticatio est recogitatio cibi i. carnis Christi pro nobis expositae in pretium ad redimendum & in cibum ad reficiendum . a spirituall chewing , that is , a recogitation or a serious consideration and faithfull meditation of the spirituall meate , that is , of Christs flesh exposed for vs , both as a ransome to redeeme vs , and as food also to feed vs ; and secondly , c c Incorporatio dum recogitans charitatis amore ei quod cogitatur iungitur , & sic incorporatur , & dum incorporatur reficitur , eique assimilatur . a spirituall incorporation , when vpon such recogitation or consideration the soule is by a louing affection vnited and incorporated to the thing considered , and is thereby refreshed or nourished , and so made in grace more and more like vnto it . So that vnto spirituall manducation are two things required , d d Recogitatio fidei , & affectio charitatis . a faithfull recogitation , and a louing affection . Whence it followeth that e e Non sufficit qualiscunque fides . neither is euery kinde of faith sufficient to effect this spirituall feeding on Christ , but such f f Gal. 5. 6. faith onely as worketh by loue : g g Non quilibet actus credendi manducare facit , &c. nor is euery effect of faith a feeding on Christs flesh , but that onely whereby Christs flesh , that was boyled ( as it were ) to make food for vs , on the Crosse , is so considered , and in a spirituall manner digested and con●●cted ( as was before said ) for the feeding and refreshing of our soules . So that Caluines doctrine and ours concerning this spirituall feeding on Christ , and so communicating with his body and blood , is no other then the Ancients long since taught , and their owne writers themselues acknowledge : Which in one word I shut and seale vp with that short saying of Chrysostome , tha tboth in Baptisme and the Eucharist , h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Chrysost in 2 Tim. hom. 2. It is faith that doth all .

Yea but Chrysost. saith that that that is in the Chalice , is that which flowed out of Christs side , and we are made therof partakers : And out of S. Lukes Greeke Text it is plainely gathered .

What out of S. Luke hee alleadegth wee shall see anone . Onely mark how he fleeth from their onely authenticall Latine heere to the Greeke Text , which at other times they * * Vide Lindan . de opt Gen. interp. l. 1 c. 11 Canum . loc. com . l. 2. c 13. & Analys . fid. l. 8. c. 〈…〉 . say is so corrupted , that there is little certainety of ought from it , further then their Latine and it concurre .

Chrysostome saith indeede as hee is here cited . But it must be remembred what both their Sixtus Senensis , and Bellar. also say of him ; to wit , that Chrysostome is wont to speake many things k k Per hyperbolen enunciare . Sixt. Sen. biblioth . lib. 6. annot. 152. hyperbolically or l l Per excessum Bellarm. de Missa l. 2. c 10. excessiuely , in his sermons especially . To passe by other places , where hee saith , that the Church is m m 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Chrylost . in Mat. hom 82. that very Chamber where Christ celebrated his last Supper ; that n n 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Idem in encoen siue de poenit . tom. 6. orat . we touch his side with our lips ; that o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Idem in Ioan. hom. 46. & ad pop. Ant. 62. we set our teeth in his flesh ; that p p 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In Mat. hom 82. we cut his flesh assunder ; that our q q 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ibid. tongue is died with blood ; and our r r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ibid. mouth is filled with fire ; while s s 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In encaen . no man , but an Angell with tongs reacheth a coale of fire to vs ; that Christ doth t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In Math. hum : 82. ●neade as dough , and u u 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ibid 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in Ioh 46 mingleth himselfe together with vs ; and that x x 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In Math. 46. we are likewise knod as dough and y y 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In 〈…〉 46. mixed or tempored together with him into his flesh . To let these passe , I say ; in the very Sermon here cited he hath diuerse passages , which themselues will not deny , must needes be figuratiuely meant ; as where he saith , that a a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In 1 Cor. hom. 24. Christ suffereth that in the Sacrament , that he did not suffer vpon the Crosse ; to wit , the b b 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . breaking , euen of his bones , which there he did not ; that d d 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ibid. the altar is bloodied with Christs blood , ( as hee saith else-where that the people are e e 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Dr sacerd lib. 3. all died red with it : ) that f f 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 In 1 Cor. hom 24. the bread is Christs bodie : ( which in propriety of sense , saith g g De Euc ar lib 1. c. 11. Bellarmine , is impossible ) and that by taking it we are not onely h h 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . vni●ed to Christs body , and become i i 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . one body with Christ ; or k k 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Christs body ; and all c 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Ioan. 19. 36 of vs one body : but that l l 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . wee our selues are that selfe same bodie that we take : Not vnlike that which Haimo hath , that m m Ilia caro quam assumpsit , & iste panis , omnisque ecclesia , non faciunt tria corpora , sed vnum corpus . Haimo in 1 Cor. 10. Christs naturall bodie , and the Eucharisticallbread , and the Communicants themselues are all but one and the same body . Yea that he is to be vnderstood figuratiuely , appeareth , as by that that hee addeth there , that n n 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . like Eagles we must so●re aloft vp to heauen , and o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . not flagge downeward , nor creepe below vpon the ground , if wee will come at Christs body ; so by that which hee saith elsewhere , that it was p p 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Chrys. in Mat. hom 82. wine that Christ deliuered , when hee deliuered this mystery ; that which hee prooueth also by the wordes of our Sauiour himselfe in the place before discussed , q q Mat. 2. 6. 29. I will drinke no more of this fruite of the vine . Chrysostome saith that the Altar is bloodied with Christs blood ; and his body suffereth that there , which really it doth not : as the Apostle faith , that r r Galat. 3. 1. Christ was crucified in the sight of the Galatians , who in likely hood many of them neuer saw peece of his Crosse : and as August . saith , s s Aug. epist. 23. he lies not , that saith that Christ is immolated on Easter-day , in regard of the similitude that that Sacrament hath of his passion , that that day is celebrated : and in like manner may it very well be vnderstood , when hee saith that Christs blood is in the Cup. Nor hindreth it , but that this speech of Chrysostome may be taken tropically , because he saith , t t 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Chrys. in 1 Cor. hom 24. That that flowed out of Christs side : ( as u u In sacramento spei consociatur Ecclesia quamdiu bibirur , quod de Christi latere manauit . Aug. contr. Faust. Beda in 1 Cor. 11. Hoc accipite in Calice quod manauit de Christi latere . Ex Aug. serm. ad Neophyt . I●● ad Haimer . de corp. Dom. Augustine also , though no friend to Transubst antiation , is reported to say the same ) no more then it would haue hindered , but that the Apostles words might haue bin taken figuratiuely ( as Caietan also well obserueth ) hough of the Rocke hee should haue said , That Rocke was that Christ , that was crucified , and died , and rose againe from the dead .

§ . 10. In the next wordes hee commeth to prooue a Sacrifice there , The very manner ( saith hee of Christs speeches , Quod pro vobis datur , quod pro vobis effundetur ; which x 1 Cor. 10. 4. y Caietan . in Thom. part. 3. quaest. 75. art. 1. is giuen for you , which shall bee shed for you ; import plainly a Sacrifice : which he hath ( as all that euer he hath almost ) out of a a Bellarm. de miss l. 1 c. 12. Bellarmine .

As if those wordes had not a manifest relation to his passion ; ( which is b b Esai 53. 10 , 12 Ephes. 5. 2. Heb. 8. 3. & 9. 12 , 14. a true Sacrifice indeed , and c c Heb. 10. 1 , 10 , 12 , 14. a most perfect yea d d Heb. 10. 8 , 9. De qua Chrysost. nomine in Psal. 95. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the full complement of all other : ) that which their owne vulgar Translation also plainely importeth , yeelding the wordes ( as they are also in the very Canon of the Masse ) by the future tense , Tradetur , effundetur ; shall be giuen , shall be shed : as hauing an eye to the passion then e e lo. 13. 1. neere at hand , wherein his body was to bee giuen , and his blood to be shed . So Gregorie of Ualence ; f f Quod tradetur siue datur , siue frangitur . 1. quod offeretur à me pro vobis in cruce mactatum . Greg de Valent. de miss. sacr. l. 1. c. 3. That is or shall be giuen , or broken ; that is , that shall bee offered by me for you being slaine or sacrificed on the Crosse : g g Tradetur . i. dabitur atque offer●etur in cruce in odorem suauitatis vt Apostolus interpretatus est . Ibid. c. 4. as ( saith hee ) the Apostle himselfe also expoundeth it . So Cardinall Hugh ; h He tooke bread , and brake it , thereby signifying that his body should be broken on the Crosse , and that hee did himselfe expose it to be so broken and crucified : And when he said k k Accepit & fregit 1. frangendum in cruce signauit . Hugo in Math. 26. i Sponte sua frangendum & crucifigendum exposuit . Idem in Marc. 14. that shall bee shed , he foretold them of his passion then shortly to ensue . Yea so l l Caietan . in Math. 26. Card. Caietan ; who addeth also not vnfitly , that Christs body is said then to be giuen , and his blood to be shed . because his passion was then in a manner begun , l a plot being now laid for his life , and m m Ioh. 10. 15. his bodie and blood already bought and sold by them . And to omit that Christs words concerning his bodie do no more intimate a present act of deliuering it , then those wordes of his the like else-where , n I lay downe my life for my sheepe : Let him but shew vs how Christs blood is shed in this Sacrifice . For as for Bellarmines bold assertion that o o Bellarm. de miss. lib. 1. cap. 25. bread is said to be broken , when it is p p Integri panes dentur . giuen by whole loaues ; and wine is said to bee poured out , when it is giuen by q q Plenae amphorae donentur . whole hogs-heads , or rundlets at least , not by pots or pitchers full onely ; it is most senselesse and abfurd . But why doth k Effundetur : de passione praedixit . Idem in Luc. 22. not this eager disputer vrge rather that which many of them doe , that Christ bad them , r Doe this , that is , as they senselesly expound it , Sacrifice this . For that is a Hoc facite , Luk. 22. 19. maine pillar , that they pitch much vpon . Which exposition yet , as Bellarmine is almost ashamed of , and s s Bellarm. de miss. l. 1. c. 12. Fingit Catholico● ità probare , &c. Non tam ineptè argumentantur . blameth Caluin wrongfully as if he had wronged them therein , by charging them with such expositions and arguments as they make not , nor alleadge : so t t Iansen . concord . cap. 131. Sunt qui Sacramentum istud esse Sacrificium ostendere conantur ex verbo facere , quod aliquando per sacrificare accipitur , &c. Iansenius acknowledging ingenuously that some did so argue , ( as indeede u u Inter caeteros Sanderus nostras de Coena Dom. l. 3. c 9. circumst. 19. Item Gregor. de Valent. de Miss. Sacrif . l. 1. c. 4. not a few doe ) yet confesseth that that is but a weake argument : and granteth in effect , that it cannot either out of that or any other place of the Gospel be prooued , that the Sacrament of Christs body and blood is a Sacrifice : And is faine therefore to runne to tradition for it : and yet there also findeth he little footing for such a Sacrifice as they would haue it to be . For Irenaeus ( x x Iansen . ibid. saith he ) that liued neere the Apostles times , y y Iren. lib. 4. cap. 31. calleth the Sacrament of Christs body and blood a Sacrifice in regard of the bread and wine therein offred ( as types of Christs body and blood : ) as also in regard of the thankesgiuing therein offred , as well for the worke of our Creation , as for the worke also of our redemption . And howsoeuer this doughty Doctor say that our Sauiours words so plainly import it , yet is their graund Champion Bellarmine , where at large he debateth this businesse , euill troubled to finde it out either in Christs Institution , or in their owne Masse booke , or to shew wherein it consisteth . Where it is not , indeede hee can easily tell vs : but he cannot so easily tell vs where it is . o o Bellarm. de miss. l. 1. c. 27. It is not he ( saith he ) p p In oblatione panis & vini non consistit . in the oblation that goeth before Consecration : for then not Christs body , but bare bread should be sacrificed . It is not in the Consecration : for q q In consecratione non apparet vlla oblatio , nec sensibili● vlla immutario , &c. therein appeareth no oblation , nor no sensible immutation , which is needfull in an externall sacrifice . It is not in the Oblation that ▪ commeth after Consecration : for r r Oblationem i●●am n●c Christus nec Apostoli faci●bant , quam nos post co●…ationem fac●… . that oblation neither Christ ; nor his Apostles at first vsed . It is not in the breaking : for s s Non solet frangi quandoque . that is sometime ●mitted : t t Fractio nostra Christum autorem non habet . nor doe we ( saith ) vse such breaking as Christ did now adaies . It is u u Manducatio & consumptio non sit à Solo Sacerdote . not in the peoples communication : for then the people should be Priests . But where is it then ? Surely it is partly in the Consecration : and yet it is not there neither : because there is x x Consecratio non veram & realem mortem , sed mysticam tantum efficit . no true or reall , but a mysticall death onely there ; and partly in the Priests manducation , or eating of it . And why there ? forsooth , because it is no where else , and somewhere it must needs be : For y y In tota actione Missae nulla est alia realis destructio victimae preter istam . in the whole action of the Masse there is no reall destruction of an Host but there onely . Thus you see how they delude the people , telling them of a true , proper , reall Sacrifice , wherein they offer Christ againe for the poore soules in Purgatorie , to picke their purses : And yet cannot tell themselues what or where it is , or wherein it consisteth . But if Christ ( as they say ) be the thing sacrificed or the Hoast : and not bread , but this Hoast is really destroied , when the Priest eateth it : then how scapeth Christ from being then destroied ? or how scapeth the Priest from being a destroier of Christ ? Yea at the first Institution either Christ did eate the consecrated Host or bread , or he did not . If he did , ( * * Vide Bonauent . in sent. l. 4. d. 9. q. 4. a Iansen . concord . cap. 131. which yet indeede is not so easily prooued ) then by Bellarmines doctrine he did therein really destroy himselfe ; and the rather , for that his body was not as yet then impassible . If hee did not , then belike there was no sacrific● there . For the Apostles ( they say ) were not made Priests till Christ bad them , Hoc facite , doe this ; and * * Concil. Trident. seff . 6. de Sacrif . Mis● . cap. 1. & can. 2. thereby made them such ; which might well be not till after they had eaten . Or if they were Priests when they did eate , then belike they destroied Christ before the Iewes did him to death . But it is not to be marueiled , if they cannot finde it in Christs Institution when they know not where to finde it in their owne Missall . In which kinde it is not vnworthy the obseruation , that Corn. Iansenius hauing sifted ouer and ransackt the whole story of the Institution , conioyning all the three Euangel●st● , that report it , together , yet can finde no Sacrifice there expressed saue in the b b Gratiarum eūim actio est quoddam Sacrificium . Idem ibid. thankesgiuing , which is ( saith he ) a spirituall ●inde of Sacrifice , and of which the Lords Supper is called the Eucharist , and may therefore well be ●earmed a Sacrifice . Which we deny not ; but expressely say the same . Onely he saith , c c Probabile est quod oblatio sui Deo sit facta . Ibid. it is probable too , that Christ then offred himselfe to his Father . But at last he is faine to flie to this , that though it be granted that Christ offred not himselfe in the Supper , yet it followeth net that the Priests should not therein now offer him . For they * Vt demus Christum non obtulisse , &c. non consequitur sacerdotes non offerre debere . are bidden by Christ to doe something that Christ did not , to wit , to doe it in remembrance of him , which could not be done then , when he was present , ( nor is hee present then belike now when it is done ) “ “ Cum memoria tantum sit rei absentis . since that remembrance is of a thing absent onely : and that therefore it may well bee called a Sacrifice , because it is done in memorie of Christs Passion . This is the very same that Peter Lombard before said : and to the same purpose Gabriel Biel ( applying that out of Augustine to the Sacrifice , which we did formerly to the Sacrament , whereupon mine Aduersarie tooke occasion to keepe such a coile , as if I made the Sacrament nothing but a bare Signe , like Alexanders picture , &c. ) d d Gabr. Biel in Can. Miss. lect 85. Augustine ( saith he ) saith that e e Aug. ad Simplie lib. 2. quaest. 3. Images or Pictures are went to be called by the Names of these things whereof they they are Pictures or Images , as when looking on a Table or a painted Wall , we say ; that is Cicero , that is Salust : Now the celebration of this Sacrament is a kinde of Image or representation of Christs Passion ; which is the true immolation or sacrificing of him : And therfore is it also called an immolation , or an oblation & a Sacrifice , because it is a representation and a memoriall of that true Sacrifice and holy oblation made on the Crosse. And this also we all willingly and generally graunt . But such a Sacrifice will not serue their turne . They must haue a Reall and a proper Sacrifice , the very selfe same with Christs on the Crosse , though they know not whence to fetch , nor where to finde it . Nor is it to be 〈…〉 ( as I said before , if in Christs Institution there be f f Nec vola , nec vestigium . 〈…〉 ●…ing 〈…〉 all found of this their Sacrifice : since they confesse that the Sacrament of the Eucharist , and the Sacrifice of the Masse are two seuerall things ; which both the Councell of Trent therefore dealeth with seuerally , and Bellarmine handleth vnder seuerall heds : as also M. Harding derideth Bishop Iewel for confounding the Communion and the Masse together . We finde in the Gospel Christs Institution of the one , and therefore willingly embrace it : but we finde there not so much as any mention at all of the other ; and therefore iustly we reiect it .

THE Protestant Writers of Magdeburgh in their N. P. fourth Century Dedicated vnto our late Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth vndertaking to declare the Primatiue estate of the Church , which in Constantines time illustrated the whole world , blame almost vniuersally all the ancient Fathers for teaching free-will , Iustification by works , merite of workes done by the assistance of grace , confession of sinnes to a Priest , and enioyned Penance , absolution of such as had confessed giuen with Imposition of hands , Inuocation of Saints , Purgatorie , Altars called the seate of the body and bloud of Christ offered on them , the reall Presence , Transubstantiation , with care , more then was had of the water of Baptisme , that no part of the Sacrament should fall to the ground , reseruation of the Sacrament , worshipping of it , receiueing it fasting and chast , offering it in Sacrifice to God as being propitiator●e not onely for the liuing , but for the dead , afferming it to be a Sacrisice according to the order of Melchisedeck , liberty for Deacon● to distribute it but not to offer it , tearming it Viaticum for sick persons , Im●ges in the Church sumptuously built for celebration of Masses in them , holy vestments vsed by the Priest in time of the Sacrifice , Corporals and Couerings of the Altar , Lights by day burning on them , placing of Saints Reliques vnder them , the care of d●ceased persons , praying before them , and making pilgrimages vnto them , and other like confessed points and practises of Catholike Doctrine .

§ 11. TO make vs beleeue that this their doctrine of T. G. Transubstantiation is of great antiquitie , he telleth vs that the Centurists blame almost all the Fathers vniuersally of Constantines time , among other things , for teaching the doctrine of Transubstantiation , and adoration of the Sacrament .

This is all most false , as much is also of the rest by him here affirmed . They alleadge onely some passages out of counterfeit workes , g g Centur. 4. cap 6. p. 430. some going vnder Ambrose his name , as the praiers preparing to the Masse , censured by h h In Censur . ad Ambros. Non esse Ambrosii . Erasmus for such , wherein mention is made of Adoration of the bread in the Sacrament ; which they note also not to be found in any of Ambrose his owne workes ; i i Centur. 4. c. 4. pag. 294. some going vnder Athanasius his name , as an idle Legend of an Image of Christ ; which k k Baron . in Martyrolog. Nouembr . 9. Planè constat Autorem illius historiae non esse Athanasium Alex. Baronius himselfe disauoweth ; wherein mention is made of no flesh of Christ left in the world , but what is made vpon the Altar : ( and how haue they l l Caluin . de reliq. Charrouienses Monachi iactant se praeputium habere . his foreskin among their holy reliques then ? ) m m Centur. 4. cap. 10. pag. 985. some vnder the name of Eusebius Emissemus , confessed by n n Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2. c. 30. de confir . lib 2. cap 6. de script . Eccles. ann. 430. & in recognit . Reuerâ Eusebius Emissenus non potuit esse . Bellarmine in diuers places to be meere counterfeits ; as an Homely , wherein the bread and wine are said to be turned into the substance of Christs body and blood : ( words not found once in the writings of any one of the Auncients : We produce expresse places , where the Substance of bread is said to remaine still in the Sacrament ; they not one where the bread is said to be turned into the substance of Christs body . But a number of such counterfeits doe they daily coine and forge , and then cry out that men condemne antiquity , when they censure them , and such grosse errors as they meete withall in them : ) And withall p p Centur. 4. cap. 4. pag. 294. they obserue that two or three of the Fathers that were , not in Constantines time , but somewhat after , vsed some new tearmes and phrases in their discourses of these Mysteries , that were not vsuall in auncienter times . But that they condemne any one Father that liued in Constantine , 〈…〉 Rob. Coqui Censur . Patrum quorundam ; & Andr. Riuetti Specimen Criticum . time or within that age , much lesse all of them almost vniuersally for teaching Transubstantiation and adoration of the Eucharist , is most vntrue . He should haue done well to haue added , what indeed they obserue , and therein hee should not haue lied , q q Centur. 4. cap. 6 p. 428. that they did in those times deliuer the Sacrament entire to all , and not mangle it , as their Church doth now adaies , bereauing the people of one principall part of it : as also r r Ibid. p. 429. that they deliuered them the bread into their hands , and not popped it into their mouthes , as their manner now is .

AND of Constantine that renowmed first Christian N. P. Emperour they confesse from the testimonie of Eusebius liuing with him and writing his life , of S. Ierome likewise and other certaine Authors , that he erected Temples in memorie of Martyrs , dedicated a most sumptuous Church in honour of the Apostles , prouided his sepulcher there , to the end that after his death he might be made partaker of the praiers there offered ; he dedicated his Church with great solemnitie , and celebrated the dedication thereof with a yeerely festiuall day ; he carried about with him a portable Church or tabernacle , and Priests and Deacons attending it for the celebration of the diuine mysteries ; he had lights by day burning therein ; he translated to Constantinople the holy reliques of S. Andrew , S. Luke , and Timothie , at which diuels did roare , and certaine reliques of the Crosse , found by his Mother for conseruation of the Citie built by him ; hee honoured sacred Virgins professing perpetuall chastitie ; Vnder him were Monkes throughout all Syria , Palestine , Bithynia , and other places of Asia and Affrick ; he greatly reuerenced Anthony the Monke ; hee went to embrace the sepulcher of Saint Peter , and Saint Paul , humbly praying to their Saints that they would be intercessours to God for him ; he much honoured the Crosse and signed his face with it ; Vnder him in that age were Pilgrimages made to Ierusalem : he reprooued Acesius the Nouatian for denying the power giuen vnto Priests to remit sinnes , vnder pretence that God onely remitteth sinnes : of his Cleargie , Priests and Bishops assembled by him to the dedication of his Church some of them did did preach and interpret holy Scriptures , others of them , who could not doe so , appeased the Deitie with vnbloody Sacrifices and mysticall consecrations , praying for the health of the Emperour : At the time of his death he intended to expiate his sinnes by efficacie of the holy Mysteries , and confessed his sinnes in the house of Martyrs : After his death praier was made for his soule , and the mysticall Sacrifice offered . So euident was hee and the Primatiue flourishing Church of Christ in his daies , in these and all other points Catholike , and continued so in our Countrey and other Christian parts of the world vntill Luthers foule Apostasie and reuolt from it .

The Brittish auncient Inhabitantt of this I le conuerted in or neere the time of the Apostles , agreed in all other points of faith with S. Austin our first Apostle , excepting some different Ceremonies of Baptisme , and the Iewish obseruation of Easter , as S. Bede testifieth : whose religion is euidently knowne and confessed by our chiefe Aduersaries to haue beene Romane and Catholike . And neuer any countrey was in any age conuerted from Paganisme to Christ , but it receiued our doctrine , namely , the practise of the Masse and beleefe of the Sacrament .

§ 12. TO passe by his impertinent Catalogue of by-matters T. G. in Constantines time ; ( whereof some also are vntrue , and some vncertaine ; ) which he is very forward to run out into , willing to be dealing with any thing , though neuer so impertinent , then the point that against his will he must be held to : Whereunto I answer no more for the present , but this ; Let him first quit himselfe of the taske that he hath already vndertaken , to wit , to maintaine this their Metaphysicall Transmutation in the Eucharist ; and when he hath so done let him then produce , if he can , any one Article of Faith , that was held generally as such in Constantines time by vs now reiected , and he shall not want an Answere . But to passe by this ( I say ) he would make vs beleeue ( if we will take it on his word ) that the Brittish auncient inhabitants of this I le held the same beleefe concerning this Sacrament , that the Romanists doe at this day . All the reason he produceth for it is this , that they differed from Augustine that was sent by Pope Gregorie into England onely in some ceremonies about Baptisme , and the obseruation of Easter .

Surely this man hath a notable vaine in disputing and arguing : he can prooue any thing , if you doe but grant him all that he saith . The Brittish Inhabitants ( saith he ) here presently after the Apostles time held Transubstantiation then , as we doe now at Rome . Whereas he well knoweth that * * Doctrinam hanc de conuersione hac , seu de Transsubstantiatione non admodum antiquam esse dicunt Scholastici , inter quos lo , Scotus dist. 4. q. 1. & d. 11. q 3. & Gabr. Biel in Can. lect. 41. Suarez . Tom. 3. disp. 5. quaest. 75. art. 5. Ait Scotus ante Lateranense Concilium ( quod fuit Anno Domini 1215. ) Transsubstantionem non fuisse dogma fidei . Bellarm. de Euchar. lib. 3. cap. 22. In Synaxi Transubstantiationem serò definiuit Ecclesia . Erasm in 1 Cor. 7. for aboue 1000. yeeres after Christ their Transubstantiation was not generally held ; scarce heard of for farre more then halfe that time . Neither is hee able to produce any title of true Antiquitie to shew , that it was then held here .

Yea but ( saith he ) there was no difference here about it , when Austin came into these parts , betweene him and them that hee found here . But I demand how it appeareth that Gregorie that sent Austin , held Transubstantiation ? or that in the Church of Rome it was then held ? Till hee can prooue this to vs , not out of lying Legends or bastard writings , but out of some authentick Story , or Gregories owne vndoubted workes , we haue little reason to beleeue him . s s Bellarm. de Euchar. l. 2. c. 32. Bellarmine ( I am sure ) can fish very little out of him , nothing at all , that prooueth ought .

Sure we are that our Country-man venerable Bede , whom he here citeth as the reporter of Augustines arriuall here , was of an other iudgement , as by his writings appeareth . For Commenting on the storie of the Institution of this Sacrament ; t t Beda in Marc. 14. & in Luk. 22. Nam in Math. non habeo . The old Paschall solemnity ( saith hee ) being ended , which was celebrated in memorie of the deliuerance out of Egypt , Christ passeth to a new one , which hee would haue the Church vse in memory of redemption by him , u u Pro carne agni & sanguine sui corporis & sanguinis sacramentum in panis & vini figura substitutens . instead of the flesh and blood of a Lambe substituting a Sacrament of his body and blood , in a figure of bread and wine , &c. And x x Frangit ipse panem quem porrigit . hee breaketh himselfe the bread that he deliuereth , to shew that the breaking of his bodie to come was by his owne will and procurement . And againe , y y Quia panis corpus confirmat , vinum verò sanguinem operatur in carne , hic ad corpus Christi mystice , illud refertur ad sanguinem . because bread strengtheneth the flesh , and wine breedeth blood , the one is mystically referred to Christs body , and the wine vnto his blood . Where is any tittle here that may stand well with their Transubstantiation ? much lesse that soundeth ought that way ? A Sacrament of his body and blood : a memoriall of his redemption : bread broken and giuen : and both bread and wine hauing a mysticall reference to the body and blood of Christ . It was well and aduisedly therefore done by Bellarmine , z z Lib. 2. de Eucharist . to leaue Bede cleane out of the Catalogue of his Authors , though a writer of the greatest note in those times , because he could finde nothing in him , that might seeme but to looke that way ; which if he could , we should be sure to haue heard of .

Yea that long after Augustines time the same beleefe of the Sacrament , that we at this day hold , was commonly taught and professed publikely in this Iland , notwithstanding the manifold monuments by that Popish faction suppressed , appeareth by some of them in ancient Manuscripts yet extant , and of late published also in print . Among others of this kinde are the a a They are of late reprinted and set forth by M. William Lisle . Epistles and Sermons written in the Saxon tongue , of one Aelfricke a man of great note for learning , that liued about the yeere 990. wherein the same doctrine is taught concerning the Sacrament that we hold at this day , and the contrary Popish doctrine is impugned .

In an Epistle of his written for Wulfsine then Bishop of Shyrburn to his Clerks bearing title of a Sacerdotall Synode , he saith , that The holy Housell is Christs bodie , not bodily , but ghostly : Not the body that he suffered in , but the body of which he spake , when hee blessed bread and wine to housell , and said by the blessed bread , This is my body ; and by the holy wine , This is my blood . And that the Lord that then turned that bread to his body , doth still by the Priests hands blesse bread and wine to his ghostly body and his ghostly blood . And in another Epistle to Wulstane Archbishop of Yorke ; that The Lord halloweth daily by the hands of the Priest , bread to his body , and wine to his blood in ghostly mystery . And yet notwithstanding that liuely bread is not bodily so , nor the selfe same body that Christ suffered in : nor that holy wine is the Sauiours blood , which was shed for vs in bodily thing , but in ghostly vnderstanding . And that that bread is his body , and that wine his blood , as the heauenly bread , which we call Manna , was his body , and the cleere water which did then run from the stone in the wildernes was truely his blood ; as S. Paul saith , b b 1 Cor. 10. 4. And that stone was Christ .

And in the Paschall Homily by him translated out of Latine , and read commonly then on Easter-day ; Men ( saith hee ) haue often searched , and doe as yet search how bread that is gathered of corne , and through fires heat baked , may be turned to Christs body ; or how wine that is pressed out of many grapes is turned through one blessing to the Lords blood . To which he there answereth , that it is so by signification , as Christ is said to be Bread , a Rocke , a Lamb , a Lion , not after truth of nature . And againe hauing demanded , Why is that holy housell then called Christs body and his blood , if it be not truely that that it is called ? Hee answereth , It is so truely in a ghostly mysterie . And then explicating further the manner of this change ; As ( saith he ) an heathen childe when hee is Christened , yet hee altereth not his shape without , though hee be changed within : and as the holy water in Baptisme after true nature is corruptible water , but after ghostly mystery hath spirituall vertue . And so saith he ; The holy Housell is naturally corruptible bread & corruptible wine , but is by might of Gods word truely Christs body and blood , yet not bodily , but ghostly . And afterward hee setteth downe diuerse differences betweene Christs naturall body and it . Much is betwixt the body that Christ suffered in , and the body that he hallowed to housell : 1. The body that hee suffered in was bred of the flesh of Mary , with blood , and bone , and skin , and sinewes , in humane limmes , and a liuing Soule . His ghostly body which we call the housell , is gathered of many cornes without blood and bone , limme and soule . And it is therefore called a mystery , because therein is one thing seen , and another thing vnderstood .

2. Christs body that he suffred in and rose from death , neuer dieth henceforth , but is eternall and impassible : That housel is temporall , not eternall , corruptible , and dealed into sundry parts , chewed betweene the teeth , and sent into the belly .

3. This mysterie is a pledge and figure . Christs body is truth it selfe . This pledge doe we keepe mystically , vntill we come vnto the truth it selfe , and then is this pledge ended . Truly it is , as we said Christs body and blood , not bodily , but ghostly . And yet further he addeth that , As the Stone in the wildernesse , from whence the water ran , was not bodily Christ , but did signifie Christ , though the Apostle say , c c 1. Cor. 10. 4 That stone was Christ : so that heauenly meate that fed them 40. yeeres , and that water that gushed from the Stone , had signification of Christs body and blood , and was the same that wee now offer , not bodily , but ghostly . And that , As Christ turned by inuisible might the bread to his body and the wine to his blood before he suffred ; so he did in the wildernesse turne the heauenly meate to his flesh , and the flowing water to his owne blood , before hee was borne . That , when our Sauiour said , d d Ioh. 6. 54. Hee that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath euerlasting life ; He bad them not eate the body wherewith he was enclosed , nor to drinke that blood which hee shed for vs : but he ment that holy housel , which is ghostly his body and his blood ; and hee that tasteth it with beleeuing heart , hath euerlasting life . That , As the sacrifices had a sore-signification of Christs body which he offered to his Father in Sacrifice : So the housell that wee hallaw at Gods Altar is a remembrance of Christs body which he offered for vs , and of his blood which he shed for vs : which suffering once done by him is daily renewed in a mystery of holy housell . Lastly , that This holy housell is both Christs body , and the bodie of all faithfull men after ghostly mysterie : and so when we receiue it , we receiue our selues too . For , e e 1 Cor. 12. 27. You are Christs body saith the Apostle ; and , f f 1 Cor. 10. 17. We many bee one bread , and one body .

Whence it is apparent that the same Faith that wee hold concerning the Sacrament of the Eucharist , and Christs presence in it was publikely taught and ordinarily professed in this Iland euen for a long time also after Austins accesse into these parts . So far is it from that which this flourisher affirmeth , that the ancient Brittons neere the Apostles times were of the same Faith & iudgement in that point with our Romanists . But lost labour it is , and ( as Optatus speaketh ) g g Quae est ista noua & stulta sapientia , nouitatem quaerere in visceribus vetustatis ? Optat. adv. l'armen . lib. 4. a meere folly to seeke for any such noueltie in the bowels of true antiquitie . Neither is this Defendant , or any other of that faction , able to produce any one sentence or syllable , whereby that which he so confidently here auoucheth , may be prooued , out of any graue and approoued Author , that liued neere those times , or that hath written of the same . Let him but make this his assertion good ( that shall be our last issue ) and he shall haue me a Proselyte , at least , in that point .

FINIS .