YOu are well mette olde acquaintance , I am glad to seé you looke so well , howe doe all our good friendes in your Countrey .

I trust they be all in good health , they were when I came from home , I am sorry to seé you looke so pale , what haue you beéne sicke lately ?

Truely no , I thanke God I haue had my health pretily well , but yet me thinke my meate doth me no good of late .

What is the matter man , doe you take thought and care for the world ▪ take heéde of that , for the Scripture saith , worldly sorrow worketh death . 2. Cor. 7.10 . It is a great sinne rising from vnbeleéfe , and distrust in Gods prouidence , when men be ouer pensiue for the world .

In deéde my minde is troubled , but not for that which you say , for I hope in God I shall not want so long as I liue .

Is it any trouble of conscience for sinne ? If it be , that may turne to good .

O , no , no. I know no cause why .

Why , what is it then , if I may be so bold , I pray you tell me . I thinke you take me for your friend .

In deede I haue alwaies found you my very good friend , and I am sure you will giue me the best counsell you can , truely we dwell here in a bad countrey , I think euen one of the worst in England .

Is it so ? I thinke you dwell in a fine countrey , in a sweéte wholesome aire , and fruitfull grounds .

Aire man ? I finde no fault with the aire , there be naughty people ▪

Naughty people ? where shall a man dwell , and not finde them ? swearers , liars , raylers , slaunderers , drunckards , adulterers , riotous , vnthriftes , dicers , and proude high minded persons , are euery where to be founde in great plenty .

Nay , I doe not meane them , I care not for them . These witches , these euill fauoured old witches doe trouble me .

What doe you take your selfe to be bewitched ?

No , no , I trust no euill spirite can hurt me , but I heare of much harme done by them : they lame men and kill their cattle , yea they destroy both men and children . They say there is scarce any towne or village in all this shire , but there is one or two witches at the least in it . In good sooth , I may tell it to you as to my friend , when I goe but into my closes , I am afraide , for I see nowe and then a Hare ; which my conscience giueth me is a witch , or some witches spirite , shee stareth so vppon me . And sometime I seé an vgly weasell runne through my yard , and there is a foule great catte sometimes in my Barne , which I haue no liking vnto .

You neuer had no hurt done yet , had you by any witch ?

Trust me I cannot tell , but I feare me I haue , for there be two or three in our towne which I like not , but especially an old woman , I haue beéne as careful to please her as euer I was to please mine own mother , and to giue her euer anon one thing or other , and yet me thinkes shee frownes at me now and then . And I had a hogge which eate his meate with his fellowes and was very well to our thinking ouer night , and in the morning he was starke dead . My wife hath had fiue or sixe hennes euen of late dead . Some of my neighbours wishe me to burne some thing aliue , as a henne or a hogge . Others will me in time to seéke helpe at the handes of some cunning man , before I haue any further harme . I wold be glad to do for the best .

Haue you any cunning man hereabout , that doth helpe ?

There is one , they say , here a twenty miles of at T. B. which hath holpe many . And thus much I know , there was one of mine acquaintance but two miles hence , which had great losses , he lost two or three kine ; six hogs , he would not haue tooke fifteene shillings a hog for them , and a mare . He went to that same man , and told him hee suspected an old woman in the parish . And I think he told me , that he shewed him her in a Glasse , and tolde him shee had three or foure imps , some call them puckrels , one like a gray catte , an other like a weasell , an other like a mouse , a vengeance take them , it is great pitty the countrey is not ridde of them , and told him also what he shoulde doe , it is halfe a yeare agoe , and he neuer had any hurt since . There is also a woman at R. H. fiue and twenty miles hence , that hath a great name , and great resort there is dayly vnto her . A neighbour of mine had his childe taken lame , a girle of ten yeares olde , and such a paine in her backe , that shee could not sit vpright . He went to that woman , she tolde him he had some badde neighbour , the childe was forespoken , as he suspected ; marry if he would goe home , and bring her som of the clothes which the child lay in all night , sheé would tell him certainely . He went home , and put a table Napkin about her necke all night , and in the morning tooke it with him , and shee told him the girle was bewitched in deede , and so told him what hee should doe , and he had remedy , the girle is as wel at this day , and a pretty quicke girle . There was another of my neighbours had his wife much troubled , and he went to her , and shee tolde him , his wife was haunted with a Fairy . I cannot tell what shee bad him doe , but the woman is mery at this howre . I haue heard , I dare ▪ not say it is so , that shee weareth about her Sainct Iohns Gospel , or some part of it .

If you haue such cunning men and women , what neede you be so much afraide ?

Alas man , I could teeme it to goe and some counsell me to goe to the man at T. B. and some to the woman at R. H. And betweene them both I haue lingred the time , and feare I may be spoiled before I get remedy . Some wishe me to beate and claw the witch vntill I fetch bloud on her , and to threaten her that I will haue her hanged , if I knew which were the best I would doe it .

I perceiue your danger is betweéne two stooles .

It is very true , if I had heard but of one , I should haue gone ere this time , and I am glad that I met with you . I pray you let me haue your best counsell ; I trust you beare me good will .

Truely I will giue you the best counsell I can , which I am sure shall doe you good , if you will followe it , for in deéde I pitty your case , it is most certaine you are bewitched .

Bewitched , doe you thinke I am bewitched ? I feele no harme in my body , you make me more afraide .

Nay I doe not thinke that the olde woman hath bewitched you , or that your body is bewitched , but the diuell hath bewitched your minde , with blindnes and vnbeleéfe , to draw you from God , euen to worship himselfe , by seéking help at the hands of deuils . It is a lamentable case to seé how the deuill hath bewitched thousands at this day to run after him : and euen to offer sacrifice vnto him .

I defie the deuill , worship him ? fie vpon him , I hate him with all my hart . Do you thinke any seéke help at his hands ? we seek help against him . I think he neuer doth good he hurteth , but he neuer helpeth any .

It is not in these matters to be taken as wee imagine , but as the word of God teacheth . What though a man think he worshippeth not deuils nor seeketh not help at their handes , as he is persuaded , nor hath any such intent , is he euer the neére , when as yet it shall be found by Gods word , that he doth worship them , and seék vnto them for help ?

Doe you thinke then that there be no witches ? Doth not God suffer wicked people to do harme ? Or doe you thinke that the cunning men doe helpe by the deuill ? I would be glad to reason with you , but I haue smal knowledge in the scripturs . We haue a Schoolemaister that is a good pretie scholler , they say , in the Latine tongue , one M. B. he is gone to my house euen now , I pray you let me intreat you to go thither , you two may reason the matter , for you are learned .

I could be content , but it will aske some time , and I am going to such a place vpon speciall busines .

I pray you let mee intreat you : Foure or fiue houres is not so much .

Well , I will goe with you .

Wife , I haue brought an olde friend of mine , I pray theé bid him welcome .

He is verie welcome . But trulie man , I am angrie with you , and halfe out of patience , that you go not to seéke helpe against yonder same olde beast I haue another hen dead this night . Other men can seéke remedy . Here is M. B. tels me , that the good wife R. all the laste weeke could not make her butter come . She neuer rested vntil she had got her husbande out to the woman at R. H. and when he came home , they did but heat a spit red hotte , and thrust into the creame , vsing certaine wordes , as shee willed him , and it came as kindly as anie butter that euer she made . I met the olde filth this morning , Lord , how sowerlie she looked vpon me , & mumbled as she went , I heard part of her wordes . Ah ( quod she ) you haue an honest man to your husband , I heare how he doth vse me . In trueth , husband , my stomacke did so rise against her , that I coulde haue found in my heart to haue flowen vpon her , and scratched her , but that I feared she would be too strong for me . It is a lustie olde queane . I wished that the good wife R. had bene with me . I pray you , good husbande , let me intreat you to goe to that same good woman , you may ride thither in halfe a day .

Wife , I pray theé be content , I haue intreated this mine olde friend to reason with M. B. for he tels mee that we be in a verie foule errour .

I suppose , so farre as my learning and capacitie doe extend , that small reasoning may serue . The worde of God doeth shew plainlie that there be witches , & commaundeth they should be put to death . Experience hath taught too too manie , what harmes they doe . And if anie haue the gift to minister help against them , shall we refuse it ? Shall we not drinke when we are a thirst ? Shall wee not warme vs when wee are a colde ? It is pitie that anie man should open his mouth anie way to defend them , their impietie is so great .

For my part , I go not about to defend witches . I denie not but that the deuill worketh by them , And that they ought to be put to death . We ought also to seeke remedie against them : but as I told my friend , the deuil doth bewitch men by meanes of these witches , and lead them from God , euen to follow himself , to offer sacrifice vnto him to worship him , to obey his wil , to commit manie grieuous sinnes , and to be drowned in manifold errours .

If you haue this meaning , that witches and sorcerers ar bewitched by the deuil , that they forsake God , and follow him , that they worship and obey him , and doe sacrifice vnto him , and commit manie hainous sinnes , I agreé with you , for I tak it , they euen vow themselues to the deuill , or els he would not be so readie to doe them seruice . But if you mean , that such as seek remedie against them , & wold haue them rooted out , be so seduced and mis-led by the deuill , as you speake , I say your speach is rash and foolish , for they that be earnest against witches , be earnest against the deuil , they defie the deuil , they seek to resist him , and to roote out his instruments . Now , if you were a man that had any learning , you should seé , that contraries cannot be in the same subiect , at one instant , in the same part , and in the same respect : how then can a man hate the deuill , defie the deuill and his workes , and yet follow him at one time ?

I know that witches and coniurers are seduced and become the vassals of Satan : they be his seruants , and not he theirs , as you speake . But I mean indeed that multitudes are seduced and led from God , to follow the deuil , by means of witches & coniurers : yea , I speak it of those , not which are caried of a godlie zeale , but of a blinde rage and mad furie against them . If I speake this rashlie and foolishlie , as you say , and your self learned as you boast , and I vnlearned , I shall be the more easilie ouerthrowne . But I speake so truly , and can so well iustifie all that I haue said by the word of God , that your learning and best skill , shall not be able to disprooue the same . Your logicke at the first doth faile you . Not that contraries can be in the same subiect at the same instant , in the same part , and in the same respect . But herein you are vtterly blinde and deceiued , that you name contraries , and take it that the first of them , as namelie to hate the deuill , to defie him and his workes , are in them , when as indeed they are in them but in imagination . For if men say and think they defie the deuill and his workes , and through blindnes and infidelitie , are euen bewitched , and seduced to followe the deuill , and to do his will , doth their speach and blinde imagination make the things indeed to be in them ? What if a poore begger woman say and thinke that she is a Queéne : is she therfore no begger , begging still her bread ? or is she rid of her lice ?

Nay , if you iudge , I haue done . If men be earnest against the deuill , and defie him and all his workes , are you to iudge of their conscience , and to say they defie him but in imagination , and follow him , and worship him in deede ? is not God alone the iudge ouer mens hearts ? Againe , do you compare those that are in their right mind , with such as be mad , or out of their wits ?

I knowe that God alone is the searcher of the heart , touching the thinges which lie hid in secrete : But where things are open and manifest , the tree is known by the fruits , so far as we may goe . As if a man professe the faith of Iesus Christ soundlie , in all pointes according to the word of God , and doth frame his life thereafter in doing good workes : it is verie wicked for anie man to iudge of him , that he is an hypocrite , and that he doth all of vaine glorie . And yet it may be that the Lord , who discerneth the secrete intents of the heart , seeth indeed that he is but an hypocrite . On the contrarie parte , where a man professeth in wordes that he doeth defie the deuill and all his workes , and yet when it commeth to the triall of Gods word , hee is found to be seduced , and wrapped in blinde errours of the deuill , in infidelitie , and euill works , in which he fulfilleth the will of Satan , and honoureth him in the place of God : Shal we say that this is a good man because of his words and imagination , that he defieth the deuill and his works ? Wo be to them that cal good euil , and euil good . Esa. 5. We may say they are in bad case , except they repent , and turne from following Satan . But yet I say , that a faithful man may erre in some of these thinges through weaknesse of faith , and through ignorance . And therefore , here men may not be too rash in iudgment . And now wheras you find fault , that I make comparison between such as be mad and those that be in their right mind ▪ it is your ignorance , which do not consider that ther be two kinds of madnes , or being out of their right mind , the one for matters of this worlde , the other for thinges spirituall and heauenlie . There bee which are in their wittes for this worlde , which touching spirituall things are as farre awrie in their imaginations , as the poore beggar , which thinketh she is a goodlie queene . Doth not the holie Apostle say , that because men receiue not the loue of the truth , God wil send them strong delusion to beleeue lies . 2. Thess. 2. And what is that , but that Satan shall seduce , illude and bewitch their minds , to make them beleeue that they worshippe and follow God , when they worship and follow him ?

Doe you take that to be S. Paules meaning ? Doth Satan bewitch mens mindes , and leade them into falsehoode and errour , making them beleéue they worshipp God , when they worship deuils ?

S. Paul speaketh there indeed of the comming of the great Antichrist in the power of the Deuill . Nowe , those which are seduced and worship Antichrist ▪ think they worship God : but marke what S. Iohn sayth , All the world wondred , and followed the beast , and worshipped the dragon which gaue power to the beast : & they worshipped the beast . Reuelat. 13. And looke in the 12. chapter of the Reuelation , and you shall find that the Dragon , which the Popery doth worship in stead of God , is the Deuill .

Trulie I like your wordes well , I am persuaded the deuill doth seduce and bewitch mens mindes : But touching these that seek help at the hands of cunning men and women against witches , I cannot thinke so hardlie of them . I may be awry , I seé well : I will not be obstinate , if the word of God shew me mine errour ▪ Let vs euen friendly conferre of the matter . Be not offended with me , and for my part , I will speake all that I knowe or thinke .

I must intreate you likewise to beare with my plaine speaches . And let vs in the matters proceéde from one point to another , standing onlie vpon that , wherein we shall be found to differ in iudgment . And let Gods word be the Iudge betweene vs .

I like this wel , though I can say but litle , I wil sit and heare you .

What is the first question that we shal handle ?

I heard you say , if I did not mistake your speach that there be witches that worke by the deuill . But yet I pray you tell me , doe you think there be such ? I know some are of opinion there be none .

It is so euident by the Scriptures , and in all experience , that there be witches which worke by the deuill , or rather I may say , the deuill worketh by them , that such as go about to prooue the contrarie , doe shewe themselues but cauillers .

I am glad we agreé in that point , I hope we shall in the rest . What say you to this ? that the witches haue their spirits , some hath one , some hath more , as two , three , foure , or fiue , some in one likenesse , and some in another , as like cattes , weasils , toads , or mise , whome they nourish with milke , or with a chicken , or by letting them sucke now and then a drop of blood : whome they call when they be offended with anie , and send them to hurt them in their bodies ; yea , to kill them , and to kill their cattell ?

Here is great deceit , and great illusion , here the deuil leadeth the ignorant people into foule errours , by which hee draweth them hedlong into manie grieuous sinnes .

Nay then I seé you are awrie , if you denie these things , and say they be but illusions . They haue bene prooued , and prooued againe , euen by the manifold confessions of the witches themselues . I am out of all doubt in these , and could in manie particulars lay open what hath fallen out . I did dwell in a village within these fiue yeares , where there was a man of good wealth , and suddainlie within ten daies space , he had three kine died , his gelding worth ten pounds fell lame , he was himself taken with a gret pain in his back , & a child of seuen years old died . He sent to the woman at R. H. and she said he was plagued by a witch , adding moreouer , that there were three women witches in that towne , and one man witch : willing him to look whom he most suspected : he suspected one old woman , and caused her to be caried before a Iustice of Peace and examined : with much a doe at the last shee confessed all : Which was this in effect : that she had three spirits : one like a cat , which she called Lightfoot , another like a Toad , which she called Lunch , the third like a Weasill , which she called Make-shift . This Lightfoot , she said , one mother Barlie of W. solde her aboue sixteene yeares agoe , for an ouen cake and told her the Cat would doe hergood seruice , if she woulde , she might send her of her errand : this Cat was with her but a while , but the Weasill and the Toad came and offered their seruice : The Cat would kill kine , the Weasil would kill horses , the Toade would plague men in their bodies . She sent them all three ( as she confessed ) against this man : She was committed to the prison , and there shee died before the Assises . I could tell you of manie such : I had no minde to dwell in that place any longer .

You mistake me , I do not meane that the things are not , but my meaning is , that the deuill by such thinges both beguyle and seduce ignorant men , and lead them into errours and grieuous sinnes . And let vs examine euerie parcell of that which you set down in your speach , and you shall seé no lesse .

That is it which I would faine seé : You confesse they haue spirits , some one , some more , and in such likenesses : what errour be the people led into by that ?

First , consider this that ther be multituds & armies of deuils , as we seé in the gospel , that manie deuils wer entred into one man , & Christ saying , What is thy name ? answer is made , Legion , for we are manie . Mark . 5. Now , although the deuils be manie , yet they be all caried with such hatred against God , with such desire to haue him dishonored and blasphemed , and burne with such bloudy malice and crueltie against men , that they bend their studie all together , one helping and furthering another what they can in their worke : in so much that the Scripture doeth speake of them , as if they were but one deuill : for S. Peter sayth , Your aduersarie the deuill goeth about like a roring lion seeking whom he may deuour . 1. Pet. 5. And in the Reuelation chapter 12. all the deuils make that great red dragon : And our Sauiour doth shewe how close they ioyne in one , when he saith , If Satan be deuided against Satan , or if Satan cast foorth Satan , how shall his kingdom endure Matth. 12. now then , whether the witch deale , as shee supposeth , with one spirit , or with manie , it commeth all to one effect , thus farre , that one dealeth not alone , but with the helpe of others . So that he or she that hath familiaritie with one deuill , it is as much as if it wer with an hundreth . Moreouer , the deuils be spirits , they haue no bodily shape or likenesse but yet can make an apparance of a shape , as appeareth by the inchanters before Pharao , when their rods were turned into serpents in shew . Exod. 7. And then one deuill can seém to be foure or fiue , and foure or fiue can seéme to be one : It is therefore but the craft of Satan , to make shewe of more or lesse .

Yes , but it can not be discerned by his appearing to the witch in shew of more or lesse : For one can seéme ten vnto her , and ten can seéme one .

Well , I doe not mislike al this , I pray you proceed forward .

Then further marke well howe the holie Scriptures doe paint out the deuils to bee mightie terrible spirits , full of power , rage , and crueltie , compared to a great fierie red dragon , Reuel. 12. to a greedie or hungrie lion , that roreth after the pray , 1. Pet. 5. And called by S. Paul Principalities , and Powers , the Rulers of the darknesse of this world : now , when they take vpon them the shapes of such paltrie vermine , as Cats , Mise , Toads , and Weasils , it is euen of subtiltie to couer and hide his mightie tyrannie , and power which he exerciseth ouer the heartes of the wicked . It is most necessarie for vs all to know , what strong aduersaries we haue to encounter withall , that we may fly vnto the Lord God , and seek to bee armed with his power against them .

Well , what will you inferre vpon this ? I cannot deny but that the scriptures doe paint out the deuils to be mightie terrible spirits , and so they may be , although they appeare but like Cats or weasils .

I doe not say they be not mightie and terrible because they appeare in such shapes , but I affirme , that their appearing so , is to couer and hide their mightinesse and effectuall working , which they exercise in the darke harts of men . And marke well I pray you , the power of deuils is in the hearts of men , as to harden the heart , to blinde the eies of the mind , and from the lustes and concupiscences which are in them , to inflame them vnto wrath , malice , enuy , and cruell murthers : to puffe them vp in pride , arrogancy and vaine glory : to entice them vnto wantonnesse , and whordomes , and all vncleannesse . And about these things they worke continually , and with such efficacy , that without the power of the glorious passion and resurrection of our Lord Iesus Christ , which we haue by faith , they cannot be withstood , and they will seeme to be but meane fellowes , busied about making drink that it shall not work in the fat , in keéping cheése from running , and butter from comming , in killing hennes or hogges , or making men lame .

May they not doe both the one and the other ?

Yea , but this is my meaning , that while they be occupied about the greatest things , as in stirring vp Tyrants and wicked men to persecute , to reproch and blaspheme the Gospell , which pulleth them downe , to set diuision and warres between kingdoms and kings , hatred and discord betweén man and wife , and contention betweene brethren : yea , to set all in a broyle and confusion : they would seéme to be busied about trifles , and about these they busie mens mindes , that they may not obserue and take heed of them in those other .

I perceiue your meaning , but yet I doe not conceiue whereunto you chiefly tend : for do not they which looke vpon these harmes done by witches , confesse that the deuill doth all those things which you mention ?

The ignorant sort , which are so terrified by witches , do in words after a sort , confesse so much as you say , but when it commeth to the matter , they deny it in effect . For mark this , the deuils continuallie compasse the soule of man about , to shoot it full of their fierie dartes . Ephes. 6. euen to wound it to death with all wicked sinnes . The deuill goeth about like a roring lion , seeking whome hee may deuour . 1. Pet. 5. And they by this craft which they vse by means of the witches , make the blind people imagin that they neuer come nigh them , but when the witches are angrie and doe send them , and that they are easilie driuen away when they do come , as by burning some quick thing , as henne , or hogge , or by beating and drawing bloud vpon the witch . Such people as can thus driue him away , or by thrusting a spitte red hot into their creame , are farre from knowing the spirituall battel , in which we are to warre vnder the banner of Christ against the deuill , much lesse doe they know how to put on ( as S. Paule willeth ) the whole armour of God , to resist and ouercome him . Ephes. 6. He may deale with their soules euen as he listeth , when they take him not present but vpon such sending , and where such hurt doth follow in their bodies or goods .

I doe not denie , but that the deuils seeke chiefly for to destroy the soules of men : But ( as I tak it ) you confesse , that they being sent by the witches , doe also those bodilie harmes : and as yet I see no reason why they may not seeke remedie against such harmes , and driue him away by anie good meanes : doth the worde of God forbid vs to vse meanes ? If I be sicke , shall I not take physicke ? If I bee thirstie , shall I not drinke ? Indeed I am of your minde , though I did neuer marke so much before , that the deuill dealeth subtillie in this , that by dealing in such small matters , he couereth himselfe in the greater , as though he came not neere , nor did not medle but in such maner : But here standeth the case , I resist him in those greater , may I not also vse those helpes which driue him away in the lesser ? I will if I can driue him away in all things .

Now the deuils are sent by the witches , and how they doe those bodily harmes , wee are not yet come vnto , and there lie two of the chiefe subtilties of the deuill in them , by which he deceiueth the multitude . But by occasion we are fallen into the mention of remedie to driue them away ▪ Because ( I say ) such as thus driue him away , know not the spirituall battell , much lesse how to put on the whol armour of God to ouercome the deuil : Order doth require that we speak first of his sending , and then of those bodilie harmes which he doth , & afterward of these meanes which are vsed to repell him . Let vs therefore step one step backe againe , if you agreé to the rest which I haue spoken .

With a good will : for so we shall omit no part . But I thought we had fullie agreéd in this , that the witches do send their spirits , and doe manie harmes both vnto men and beasts : because we haue it confirmed by daylie experience : and vnlesse you will denie that which is manifest , I doubt not but we shall accorde in these .

I say the witches do send their spirits .

What shal we neéd then to stand vpon that point in which we are agreéd ?

Yes· though we agree that they send them , yet we may dissent in diuers thinges about this sending . As first , tell me , whether doe you thinke that the witch or the Deuill is the seruaunt , which of them commaundeth , and which obeyeth ?

How can I tell that ? It is thought hee becommeth her seruaunt , and where she is displeased , and would be reuenged , she hyreth him for to doe it . The witches themselues haue confessed thus much : and for my part , I think no man can disprooue it .

They that doe the will of God are the children and seruants of God . And they which fulfill the lustes of the deuill , and obey him , are his children & his seruantes , Ioh. 8. vers. 44. Act. 13. vers. 10. Are they not ?

I graunt all this ?

The deuilles are the rulers of the darknesse of this world . Ephes. 6. ver. 12.

The text is plaine .

The darknesse of this world , is not meant of the darknesse of the night , which is but the shadow of the earth , but it is the spiritual darknes , which consisteth in the ignorance of God , in infidelitie , and in sinne .

I am of your mind in this also .

I must neéds thinke he hath , the word of God doth force me thereunto : seéing he is the Prince of darkenesse .

And is there anie greater infidelitie and darknesse in anie , than in witches , coniurers , and such as haue familiaritie with deuils ?

I tak it they be the depest ouerwhelmed in darknesse and infidelitie of all other .

Lay all these thinges together which you confesse , and see whether it doth not follow vpon the same , that the witch is the vassall of the deuill , and not he her seruant ; he is Lord and commaundeth , and she is his drudge and obeyeth .