FATHER , being resolued to vow my selfe to a religious life in your Societie , I entreat you would be pleased to giue me leaue , for my instruction , to aske you some Questions , to the end , that by your Answers I may not onely be confirmed in my resolution my selfe , but also prepared to informe others , whereby they likewise may bee drawne to the same deuotion .

Speake on boldly , my Sonne , for no part of our mysteries shall be concealed from thee , prouided thou promise to receiue them at my hands vnder the seale of Confession , and not to reueale any more thereof , then what we are contented to haue publike , reseruing in secret the Theory of many things , whose practice cannot be hid , and yet it may not easily be perceiued from whence they procced .

I will carefully obserue the silence , which I am ready to vow , and will neuer speake word of any thing , but when you shall please to open my mouth , vnlesse it be now , that for to learne of you , I make some demands . And first of all I beseech you let me vnderstand the originall of our Society : for some there be , and those too among other religious Orders , that hold it to be but new .

It is true indeed that it hath been renewed in our time , wherein it was necessary to institute some new Orders , a a Bellarm. de Monach. l. 2. cap. 6. Because that feruor which is found in the beginning of a new Order , exciteth many men to pietie , which by little and little waxing cold , it is needfull that new should be raised , whereby that feruor may be entertained : But if wee regard the first originall of this Societie , it will appeare to be very ancient .

I pray you shew me how ; for I should be glad to be furnished with meanes to stop their mouthes which termes vs New-men .

So farr is our Society from being to be accounted new , that there is not any one so ancient ; for it was before the Apostles time : and to proue it , The Societie of b b Serm. de Valderama pag. 10. Iesus was founded euen at the very point of his admirable Conception , vniting in his diuine person his humanitie with his eternall nature : And that was the first societie which God had with men , and the first Colledge thereof was the virginall womb of the Virgin .

I should neuer haue dreamed of this Colledge , nor of so authenticall an originall of our Societie without your direction : But is it not spoken of in the Gospell , or in the writings of the Apostles ?

Yes . For S. c c 1 Cor. 1. 9. Paul speaketh of it in these words , in the first to the Corinthians , God is faithfull , by whom yee haue beene called to the societie of his Sonne Iesus . And S. d d 1 Ioh. 1. 3. Iohn , To the end our societie may be with the Father , and with his Sonne Iesus Christ . By which words it followeth , saith Father Arturus , e e Lib. 1. de Ecclesia . that the Societie of Iesus hath beene euer since the time of the Apostles , and is not new , as Sadeel doth maliciously slander it . Neither is any credit to be giuen to f f Locor . Theol. lib. 4. cap. 2. Melchior Canus Bishop of Canary , saying , That that societie being the Church of Christ , they which doe attribute that title vnto themselues , are to consider whether like vnto the Heretikes they doe not vainly boast , that the Church is no where abiding but with them . For you must obserue my Friend , that this Canus was of the Order of the preaching Friers , of whom Father g g Praefat. ad lib. disquis . Magic . Delrio writeth truly , That openly they carry themselues as enemies and opposites to our Societie , and in secret by their deuices they traduce it , labouring all they can , both in Italy , Spaine , and throughout the whole world , to make it to be enuied , and seeke not onely by themselues , but by certaine lying Historians their instruments , to blemish it in what they may ; and striue with all their might , either to cause their bookes to be prohibited , or the reading of them to be suspended , or at leastwise they charge them with some note of infamy : Whereupon it may be reasonably concluded , that these men are not to be held eyther for competent Iudges , or witnesses against them of our Societie , nor against any of their writings whatsoeuer , but are to be ranked in the number of our accusers and aduersaries .

It is no maruell then if this Spanish Bishop hath snarled so at our Societie : and without doubt from the same spirit proceedeth that which hee saith in another k k Locor . Theol. lib. 11. cap. 16. place speaking of fabulous Legends , wherewith he compareth certaine Histories , which he calleth fables , published not long since by some that came from farre , vnto whom hee applyeth the Spanish prouerbe , De luengas vias , luengas mentiras , Great trauellers , great lyers . For I suspected that thereby he meant that which is read in the Epistles of the Fathers of the Societie , sent from the East-Indies .

Thine opinion was not improbable . But to leaue these enuious fellowes , I will returne to the original of our Societie , which though it be as ancient as I haue deliuered , yet that must be vnderstood onely of the first and farthest foundations thereof ; for else it cannot be denyed , but that in many things it is of a new institution ; and also it doth acknowledge for Institutor an holy personage , that beganne his Order not aboue fourescore yeares since ; for Father Bellarmine in his Chronologie doth attribute the confirmation thereof to Paul the third , in the yeare 1540.

Who was the Institutor of it ?

St. Ignatius Loyola borne in Biscay , and a subiect of the Kings of Spaine .

What life had he lead before ?

Why he had beene a debauched Souldier , and borne armes at Pampelune against the French , where hee was maymed , with an hurt that he receiued on both his knees , whereof hee halted euer after , but in such manner that it was hardly perceiued , as Father Maphaeus well obserueth in his life .

I feare that the Heretickes will draw some bad consequence from thence , and say that he is the father of a Societie , which halteth on both sides , as sometimes the l l 1 Kings 18. 21 ▪ Prophet Elias obiected to the Idolaters amongst the Israelites .

I make no question but they will , but we must not regard what they say ; howsoeuer , though we halt on both sides , I am sure we runne fast enough to cut them out as much worke , as they can turne their hands vnto . But to returne to Saint Ignatius our Institutor , it was he that enflamed with zeale , first thought vpon the enrolling of so holy a Society .

It seemeth also that his name taketh its signification from fire .

Thou art in the right , and thereupon I will discouer great mysteries vnto thee . First of all : m m Serm. de Valderama pag. 10. As the Psalmist saith , According to thy name O Lord , so is thy prayse throughout all the earth , thy right hand is full of iustice : As much thinke I may I say of Father Ignatius , which signifieth a Saint composed of fire , and that is one of the names proper to God , Our God is a consuming fire : and on the other side I perceiued , that in his right hand he carrieth the name of Iesus , who was our Sauiour and sanctification .

Now I learne of you , that one may say as much of a man as of God without sinning , which is a deepe point .

Thou sayest true , my Sonne , and this I will adde further , n n Serm. de ●e●a pag. 112. That in these last times God hath spoken vnto vs by his Sonne Ignatius , whom he hath constituted heyre of all things , and in whom nothing is wanting , but onely that word whereby he made all ages .

Verily , though he did not make all ages by him , he hath renewed the world by him , and hath made another age of it : And as o o Gen. 1. v. 2. the Spirit of the Lord moued vpon the waters , before the world was formed , as it were sitting vpon that confused masse , for to hatch it such as it was at last : euen so is it true , as Father p p Pag. 74. Valderama preached , That when Saint Ignatius plunged himselfe in the water vp to the very chin in the heart of winter , for to diuert a young man from certaine filthy desires , one might say , that Spiritus Domini ferebatur super aquas , the Spirit of the Lord was carried vpon the waters .

This indeed is a pretty obseruation , and there is no doubt , but that the coldnesse of the waters was well warmed by the touching of his body : for as the same q q Pag. 10. Preacher saith , When he resolued to quit the Souldiers life , the very house wherein he then was , moued , the wals shaked , the posts and beames trembled , and all that were in it betooke themselues to flight , and ranne out of doores as fast as their legges could carry them : euen as when some strange eruption of fire doth sodainly burst out with furious flames in some high mountaine ; so when this interior fire began to be discouered in him , who before ( young Souldier ) was cold and frozen in the things of God , it lightned forth in such sort , that it caused a thousand feares , a thousand amazements , a thousand firings of houses &c. there was neuer any Montgibel , or flaming mountaine that did the like .

I heard an Hereticke not long since make strange Glosses vpon this . Heesaid vpon occasion of Father Bellarmins reason that it was needfull to haue new Orders , because the feruor of the old by little and little grew cold , how we held a good course that the like should not arriue vnto ours : for besides the care we prouidently take , that the great pot may be alwayes boyling , which is a perpetuall meane to preserue the feruor of our mercinary Religion , we exercise the trade of incendaries in all places ; and not contented with a thousand firings of houses , made by our Institutor , we haue set all Christendome on fire : neither is there any Kingdome , Common-wealth , City , or Prouince , which we haue not enflamed with warres and seditions ; and therefore said he , was our Father Ignatius most properly compared to a Montgibel , the very tunnell of Hell .

For hearing these things , and repeating them againe , thou deseruest to be imprisoned in the chamber of meditations , there to fast with bread and water , and be disciplined twice a day , and after all that , be forced to haue recourse vnto his Holinesse for an Absolution , as of a case reserued . But because I find thee docible , I will proceed in instructing thee , and seeke to cleare thee of all such doubts , as these blasphemies may happely haue left in thee : And first of all , for answer vnto those which accuse vs for the care we take of our pot , I must remember vnto thee the worthy discourse which Father Deza made thereupon . The designe r r 1 Serm. de Deza pag. 152. saith he , of these good Fathers , when as they seeke the commodity of their Colledges , is like the aduice which Ioseph gaue to Pharaoh for the storing vp of corne into his Garners against the time of necessity and famine . The maruell is how these Fathers in such hard and peruerse times can possibly find the meanes to furnish themselues with all that they want . It is a miracle that men being so miserable and pinching , yet should not haue the power to deny these Fathers ; a miracle like vnto that which God wrought vpon the Egyptians , in fauour of his people , when they lent vnto the Israelites whatsoeuer they asked , and God would haue them to carry it all away : such is euen right the case of these good Fathers , for it is a signe that God hath a care of them , that they are his people , and that he tenderly loueth them , when they that are so neere and couetous take a pleasure to furnish them with all that they stand in need of .

I should feare that many good Catholikes would be much offended with this speach , when in recompence of their liberality they shall see themselues compared to the Egyptians , which may indanger their affection to our Society .

Neuer feare it : for good Catholikes will not bee offended if any thing be derogated from them to magnifie so holy a Society . Now touching the other obiection of Montgibell , and incendiaries , whereof they accuse vs , for answer I say , that those Sophisters take that literally , which wee meane spiritually .

I submit my selfe in all humility to your exposition . But I intreat you to tell me why our Father Ignatius gaue the name of Iesus to his Society .

There be many reasons for it . And the first is , s s Valderama pag. 10. That as our Lord Iesus , who being the Sauiour of our soules , from the time of his natiuity into the world , vnto his death , neuer dealt in other businesse then that which concerned our saluation ; so the life of our Ignatius was wholly bestowed about the sauing of soules . The life of Iesus was manifested in his workes , and Ignatius was transformed into him , whose name the Societie beareth .

I thought there had beene none but Saint Francis , that had beene transformed in such manner into Christ , that the one could not be knowne from the other , but by their difference of habit , as father t t Horat. Turcel . in Iesuit . apud Poss . Horace Turcelin hath daintily expressed it in these foure verses .

That is to say , take the frocke and the gowne from Saint Francis , and he shall be Christ : and put on the frocke and gowne on Christ , and he shall be Saint Francis : but now I learne that the same also may be said of father Ignatius ; take from him his cloake and his buckle , and he shall be Iesus : or attire Iesus like a Iesuite , and he shall be Ignatius , seeing Ignatius is transformed into him .

No question but it may be said with as much reason , as that which father Gaspar Sanctius , dedicating a Booke to St ▪ Ignatius assureth , namely , that the iudgement of father Ignatius , Nihil omnino discrepat à Diuine , is in nothing different from the iudgement of God .

Is there no other reason why the name of Iesus was giuen to our Societie ?

Yes ; and this it is , Father Ignatius going to Rome for to obtaine the approbation of his Order , and finding himselfe much perplexed about that which might befall him there , Iesus appeared vnto him carrying a Crosse , and in the same vision also God the Father was seene recommending our Society vnto his Sonne , who promised him in good Spanish termes , that he would be propitious and fauourable vnto him at Rome , as father x x Maphae . in vit. Loyala lib. 2. Et Rib lib. 2. cap. 20. Maphaeus and Ribadeneira relate . These speeches fortified him , and gaue him occasion to name his Company the Society of Iesus .

The same Hereticke of whom I spake before , obiected vnto me , that that Iesus which spake to our father Ignatius , was but an imaginary Iesus , and that whereas the true Iesus maketh intercession to his Father for the faithfull , the imaginary father of our Ignatius maketh intercession to his sonne for vs ; and whereas the true Iesus promiseth to bee propitious vnto his in heauen , the imaginary promised to bee propitious to his at Rome . But to leaue these scoffers with their blasphemies , did not Iesus that appeared to father Ignatius performe his promise ?

Dost thou doubt of that ? certainly the Apostles haue not more credit in heauen , then we haue vpon earth , especially at Rome , where after this apparition , y y Serm. de Valderama . pag. 48. The Pope hauing well considered Ignatius hands , he found them all printed ouer with the name of Iesus , whereupon he said , Digitus Dei hic est , In these hands is the finger of God .

Indeed I haue beene told that this good Saint wrought great miracles as well as Moses , of whom the Magicians of Egypt sayd that which the Pope said of Ignatius .

What sayest thou , as well as Moyses ? z z Serm. de Valderama pag. 11. It was no maruell if Moyses wrought such great miracles , for he did them by vertue of the ineffable name of God engraued in his rod : it was no maruell if the Apostles wrought such miracles , seeing they also did them in the name of God : But that Ignatius , with his name written in paper , should doe more miracles then Moyses , and as many as the Apostles , &c. is that which sheweth so wonderfull vnto vs .

What particular office hath father Ignatius ? or what part is there commonly assigned vnto him for the succour of men ? for I make no doubt , but as God hath assigned to euery orher Saint the cure of some one disease or other , as to St. Roch the plague , to St. Petronel the feuer , to St. Main the itch , so St. Ignatius hath some certaine one vnto which hee is maruellously assisting .

Thou art in the right : a a Valderama . pag. 51. Father Ignatius doth assuredly and most readily assist all women that are in labor : for this vigilant Pastor doth alwayes accompanie the sheepe that are great with young , for to helpe them to be deliuered , as it is written in Esay , Foetas ipse portabit , that is to say , he will looke to the Ewes , for to haue their wooll and their lambes .

Now here is a passage of Esay most subtilely interpreted , and sure none of the Ancients euer discerned that it was spoken of Ignatius , and of the care which he hath of women with child . But it is not strange that Ignatius should haue such a care of good women , for the holy Virgin her selfe , accompanied with two Angels , made it not squeamish to goe and visit a gentle Abbesse , that had suffered her selfe to be gotten with child , and for the preseruation of her honor , commanded those two Angels to deliuer her of her burthen , and to carry it to an Hermit to bring it vp , which in time became a Bishop , as it is at large related in the Booke of the miracles of the Virgin Mary , printed certaine yeares since at b b Cum sec. parte Serm. discip . de tempore . Apud Ioh. Albinum ▪ 1612. Mentz .

Why this indeed is the very finger of God . But doth he not cast out deuils ?

d d Valderama pag. 55. It happened one night , that the deuill had almost strangled him , and twice or thrice he beat him cruelly : but since he had a full reuenge of him : For it hath beene often seene by experience , that after many prayers haue beene made , many Saints inuoked , many and sundry relickes applied , the last remedy hath beene the image of blessed Ignatius , laying it on the patient , or one of his signets , shewing it vnto him , and saying , Permerita B. Ignatii abi hinc Spiritus maligne , and presently he departed .

Is not this good Saint dead ?

Yes , that he is , and his body was laid in the earth , whence he is not yet risen againe : e e Idem pag. 89. But in his Sepulcher was heard most melodious singing : his Sepulcher seemed a new heauen , the Angels made such musicke there , and for that effect they descended downe in squadrons from heauen . Now though no Angell euer appeared vnto him in his life time , yet the blessed Virgin , Saint Peter , the eternall Father , and his Sonne carrying his crosse , appeared vnto him .

Why did no Angels appeare to him during his life ?

f f Fol. id . ibid. It arriued vnto him at his death , as it arriueth vnto great Potentates of the earth : As long as Kings are in their Palaces and houses of pleasure , the Guard suffer none to enter but men of note , vnlesse it be some necessary attendants : but when the King is dead , and that hee is laid on an hearse in the great Hall of the Court , then euery one is admitted to come in . As long as Ignatius liued , there was none but Popes , as St. Peter ; Empresses , as the Mother of God ; or some Soueraigne Monarch , as God the Father , and his Sonne , which had the fauour to behold him : but as soone as he was dead , euery Courtier belonging to the eternall King was admitted , all the celestiall people ranne to see him , Angels , Archangels , Thrones , &c.

This indeed was admirable , and verily I doe not thinke that the like can be said of any other Institutor of an Order . But tell me , I pray you , was hee author of any rule more austere then others that went before him ?

Here is a reason as cleare as water , and therefore I see that that was the cause , why he did not thinke it fit to charge vs with such austerity of watching , fasting , and diet , lest by too much weaknesse of body , we should be made vncapable of the guiding and gouernment of so many Beasts , as are committed vnto vs .

It is right . But in one thing hee would haue vs not to suffer our selues to be surmounted , but rather that we should surmount all others , And that the true and lawfull posterity of our Society should thereby be distinguished , as by their marke .

Thou doest wisely not to regard their prattle , nor that neither of some Politicians as bad as they , who hold that for sottishnesse , which we account the greatest vertue of all , and that is , i i Ignat. de obed. virtute , Sect. 3 the renunciation of all will , and all iudgement , for to depend wholly vpon the iudgement and will of another .

If by that other you meane God , it is a great impietie to gainsay that we should not altogether subiect our will to his will , and our iudgement to his iudgement ; and I hold him for a manifest Hereticke that denyeth it .

Nay , now thou shewest that thou art but a Nouice ; it is not that which we blame in the Heretikes and Politicians , for they confesse as much as thou sayest : but by another , wee meane our Superiours , whose will our Father k k Ibid. Sect. 1. Ignatius would haue vs hold to be Diuine . And we are not to regard , l l Ibid. Sect. 3. Whether this Superior hath wisdome , or goodnesse , or other gifts of God , that our obedience may not in any thing be diminished : or whether he be not capable of great counsell , or whether he be not prudent : because wee are to regard , that he holdeth the place of him which cannot be deceiued , who will supply any defect he may haue of prudence and probitie . And it is to be noted , m m Ibid. Sect. 5. That your obedience shall be imperfect , if it mount not to that degree , not onely to execute the action , which hee commandeth you exteriourly , but also that you transforme your will into the will of your superiour , otherwise it will not merit the name of vertue . And therefore it is , that we reade how obedience is better then sacrifice : the reason whereof is deliuered by S. Gregory , because in sacrifices the flesh of a thing was offered , and by obedience one offereth his owne will , which is an excellent part of the soule .

I had thought till now that sacrifice was not to be offered to any but onely vnto God , which was the cause why I beleeued that when you spake of renouncing all a mans will for to obey another , which is , as you teach me now , to sacrifice ones owne will , it was not to be done to any but vnto God alone .

Therein thou wert mistaken , not to regard in the person of thy Superiour , Iesus Christ himselfe , who is supreme wisedome , immense goodnes , infinite charitie , that cannot be deceiued , neyther will deceiue thee . And this we must doe according to the instruction of S. n n Ibid. Sect. 16. Ignatius , who would not haue vs question o o Sect. 12. whether he that commandeth vs , doth it well or ill , Recténe , an secus : for then p p Sect. 7. by obedience wee render our freewill vnto him , from whom we receiued it . Now , Tollet . instruc . sacerd. l. 4. cap. 3. Sect. 4. if ( as Cardinal Tollet teacheth ) a simple Countriman , that beleeueth his Bishop , propounding some Hereticall doctrine vnto him in the articles of faith , meriteth in beleeuing it , although it be an error , because hee is bound to beleeue vntill he knoweth that it is repugnant to the Church . Why should not we yeeld as much to our Superiours ; and why should not we hope to merit , if we doe that which they command vs , without farther inquiry , euen when they command euill ? It is they that shall answer for it .

I wholly submit my selfe to beleeue you , that I may not lose the fruit of obedience ; and renounce mine owne vnderstanding to approue this doctrine , which I would entreat you to declare me somewhat more particularly , in regard that therein consisteth our Proprium quarto modo , our principall marke .

I will doe it in our Father Ignatius owne termes , who hath prescribed vnto vs , for an article of faith , q q Ibid. Sect. 18. How wee are to hold for most infallible , that whatsoeuer our Superiour commandeth , is the commandement and will of God , and by consequent , that with all our heart , & with all our consent , wee labor to do all that the Superiour biddeth , out of a certaine blinde impetuositie of the will , desirous to obey , without any enquiry at all ; as wee imploy all our consent to beleeue The Articles of our Faith , and as Abraham did , when God commanded him to offer his sonne Isaac .

This being once granted , as needs it must , seeing the iudgement of our Father Ignatius is diuine , nothing shall be impossible to our Societie : and as long as there are those which haue vowed this obedience , so long shall wee haue men capable to execute the most difficult and hazardous enterprises . But be pleased , I pray , to tell mee whom wee are to take for our superiours , which haue this power ouer vs .

Blessed Ignatius shall answer thee himselfe ; r r Ibid. Sect. 20. That which I haue said of obedience , equally appertaineth to priuate persons towards their nearest superiours : as to Rectors of Colledges , and such as are ordained for Presidents in each place towards their Prouincials ; to Prouincials , towards their Generall : to the Generall , towards him , whom God hath established ouer him , namely his Vicar vpon earth .

What are wee to beleeue of this Vicar , which is our holy Father the Pope ?

That he is the vniuersall Monarch of the whole Church ; her head , her spouse , and consequently aboue her . That hee is the fundamentall stone , of which Esay speaketh , saying ; s s Esay 28. 16. I will send into Sion a stone , a tryed stone , a pretious corner stone , a sure foundation , hee that beleeueth shall not make haste . For although the Apostles t t 1 Pet. 2. 6. S. Peter , and u u Rom. 9 33. S. Paul haue applyed it to Christ , yet so it is , that it is spoken there of a foundation after a foundation , of the second foundation , not of the first , as Cardinall x x Praesat in lib. de sum . Pontif. Item in eod. lib. per totum . & de concil . lib. 2. ● . 17 Bellarmine learnedly obserueth .

It must : howbeit with this moderation , whereof we make vse to content the scrupulous ; that temporall things depend on him , so farre forth as they serue to spirituall , and that for the good of them the Pope y y Bellar. de pontif . lib. 5. cap. 6. §. Explicanda . hath soueraigne power to dispose of the temporall estates of all Christians : Because z z Ibid. cap. 7. §. Prima ratio . the Ciuill power is subiect to the Spirituall , and euery superiour may command his inferiour .

Doe you apply this to Kings and Kingdomes ?

It is to that vse for which this doctrine chiefly serueth , and it needeth no further explication , seeing that so many effects haue sufficiently declared the application thereof .

I , but yet I would desire you to furnish me with some Maximes for the ease of my memory , according as they haue beene registred by the most approued Authors of our Societie .

With all mine heart : And in the first place Cardinall a a Desum . Pont. lib. 5. cap. 7. Sect. Item potest Bellarmine shall teach thee , That the spirituall power may depose Princes , and place others in their steads , when as it cannot otherwise conserue its spirituall estate . And Father Suarez , b b Defen . ●id . Cath lib. 3. cap. 23. §. 10. That the power of the Pope extendeth to the repression of Kings by temper all paines , and by priuation of their Kingdomes when necessity requireth . Also , c c Ibid. §. 18. That the Pope hath as much power ouer temporall Princes , yea ouer such as are absolute and soueraigne , as ouer the other faithfull or baptised Christians , not onely to represse them by censuring their faults , but also to punish them with temporall and corporall paines . Further , That this power is much more necessary for the repression of Princes , then of subiects .

This it may be is meant of hereticall Princes .

Indeed it is first meant of them . And if our Catholikes in England , and other places , had as much power as they haue right , they would not endure hereticall Princes , as they are constrained to doe , till such time as opportunitie shall serue to free themselues from them : for otherwise they are taught by vs , that e e Bellar. de sum ▪ Pont. lib. 5. cap. 7 Sect. Praeterea . to suffer an hereticall or infidell Prince , who laboureth to draw men vnto his Sect , is to expose Religion vnto euident perill , which Christians ought not to doe . And Father f f Vbisupr . §. 21 Suarez worthily proueth , That it appertaineth vnto the Pope to defend the subiects of an hereticall Prince , and that by his power he may depriue such a Prince of his Kingdome , chase him out of it , & absolue his subiects from their oath of allegeance . And herewith agreeth Father Gregory of Valentia , writing g g Tom. 3. Disp. in Thom. disp. 1. ● . 12. punct . 2. That temporall domination and superioritie ouer subiects , by the sentence of the Pope may be taken away from Heretikes : And the reason of it is , That if they may bee depriued of their liues , much more of their estates , and consequently of all superioritie ouer others ; and that they which are excommunicated for Heresie , incurre de facto the depriuation of politicke power , and that their subiects are not onely absolued from their oath of allegeance , but are also forbidden to keep it : And that if the Iudge hath not yet pronounced the sentence of Excommunication , this paine is neuerthelesse incurred , if the crime of Heresie be so notorious that it cannot be hid ; and then it is lawfull for the subiect to deny obedience to his hereticall Lord , much lesse is he bound thereunto .