WHat sayest thou Mysodaemon , is it not strange , that men at this day make so small account to discouer , and auoid the moste horrible and dreadfull sinnes of witchcraft .

I would gladly heare somwhat of you concerning this argument , for the common sort of men , indeed , doe lightlie regard this sinne , and the rather because some men ( as they say ) of learning and reputation , affirme , that this art being rightly discouered , containeth nothing but cousenage and secret practises of wicked men , and foolish women which are full of restles melancholick imaginations .

True it is , they say so indeed : but how prooue they all such strong affirmations ? they speake much and fill volumes of many bookes , but prooue litle soundly of that which they haue vainely and wickedly conceiued : for when their proofe is out of the Scripture , they neuer faile to wrest and bend that blessed word most prophanely to their owne purpose . And as for other learned men , which haue written painefulle of this argument , they are all without difference scorned , reiected , and a a Dis. p. 17. railed vpon in moste vile manner . Their best proofe is from their owne braine , and most wicked experience , and yet some wise men ( as they say ) beleeue them .

Surely Theophilus I can not myselfe be anie way perswaded that the common sorte of our witches worke by the deuill , or haue any conference with him , for so I remember Bodin b b De Daemonomania . lib. 1. cap. 1. & others define a witch to be one that wittingly & willingly vseth deuilish artes to atteine that hee purposeth , & therefore 〈…〉 women are no witches , for they haue no such artes , alack● poore fooles they are no seducers , c c Dis. p. 71. but rather poore seduced soules .

I see Mysodaemon you haue read ouer some of their great volumes , can you so pretely bemone our old witches ? true it is , manie of the common sort ( I beleeue well ) are not right witches indeed , notwithstanding they are guiltie of other most vile sinnes , and most worthie of death .

As for other sinnes , as coosnage , poisoning , and such like , I will not couer them , our witches are full of such practises , but that these seely women , haue anie artes to coniure the deuill , or to conuey him into a boxe ( as they say ) to raise tempests , to kill and make aliue , I thinke all these are but vaine surmises of credulous and foolish people .

Satan is full of delusions , ● . Thes. 2. and filleth the mindes , eies , and eares of such as the Lorde hath iustlie giuen ouer vnto his handes for the contempt of the truth to beleeue lies , he is a flying serpent and not so narrowly inclosed , albeit hee perswadeth his vassals by such vaine delusions least ( wanting his presence ) they should bee discouraged in his seruice . But let vs come vnto the purpose , that there haue bene , are , and may be such Sathanicall witches , which worke indeed many wonders by the help and ministrie of Satan .

I knowe not where to turne mee in this controuersie , for they say the scripture hath not answered this question , wee haue d d Dis. p. 110. no scripture against our witches or which can discouer them .

If the scripture will not suffice and serue vs for this purpose , let vs impute that to our weakenes , and not to the want of that most perfect booke of God , which is said to be so sufficient that it is able to make the man of God e e 2. Tim. 3. 16. 17. absolute . And hath not the Scripture prophesied of the chaunge of Empyres , of the variable state of the Church before and after Christes incarnation , of Antichrist his comming , ● . Thes. 2. his miracles , &c. And doe we not finde all those diuine and propheticall predictions true ? Shall wee then imagine that there are some sinnes crept into the worlde which the Lord did not foresee , or hath not forewarned vs of : no , no , let Satan turne his coate as often as hee list , yet will that blessed worde bewraye him and his practises . The Apostle telleth vs that whatsoeuer is written , is written for our learning : Rom. 15. 4. the Lord therfore hauing so manifestly taught vs and reuealed his will , & what is necessarie to bee knowen in this argument , let vs bee content with his word , and suffer our selues to be taught by it .

I remember one learne'd man f f Danaeus in Dialog. faith so : And surely it behooueth vs Christians to rest our selues vpon the words of Christ : but I thinke , Theophilus , thou canst not finde this sinne spoken of in all the g g Dis. praesae . new Testament .

Yea truely : for it is numbred among those workes of the flesh , which ( without repentance ) seclude vs from the kingdome of heauen , Gal. 5. 20. vpon which place h h Ierom. com . in Gal. 5. Ierome saith thus : Ne forsitan veneficia , & malificae artes non viderentur in Novo prohibitae testamento , ipsae quoque inter carnis opera numerantur : Least peradventure witchcraft , and other magicall artes ( mentioned in the olde Testament ) should not seeme to be forbidden in the Newe Testament , they are also counted among the workes of the flesh .

But our witches are properly those whom the Poets call sagae , Thessalae , Magae , Lamiae : I say this then , and that boldly , that these i i Dis. praef. words are not once found , neither in the New nor Olde Testament : I pray you shew me any of them if you can .

The scripture hath no such words in the original tongue for it is Hebrew & Greeke , and these words are poeticall Latine wordes . Againe one thing may haue many and diuers improper names . Sathan him selfe is sometime called a k k 2. Cor. 4. 4. ephes. 2. 2. and 6. 12. 13. 2. cor. 11. god , sometimes a Prince , sometimes an Angel , a gouernour , a dragon , a serpent , &c. and yet is he in verie trueth , but a wicked lying spirite , the executioner of Gods iustice vpon the children of disobedience : the witches are sometimes in Poets improperlie also called Thessalae , Horac . Ovid. Thessalian witches , Sagae , Wise women , Magae , Persian witches , Lamiae , Ladies of the fayrie , Striges , Hegges : and yet a witch is but a wicked man or woman that worketh with the deuill . But as for the matter it selfe , which by those borrowed wordes the Poets and other authours meant , the Scripture is mostrich and plentifull for our instruction . Let vs then attend with reuerence what the Lorde saith , and not doate on that manner about questions and strife of wordes : for thus the Apostle writeth : l If any man consent not to the wholesome wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ , and to the doctrine which is according to godlines , he is puft vp and knoweth nothing , but doteth about questions and strife of wordes , whereof commeth envie , strife , railings , euill surmisings , * * Or , forward . vaine disputations of men of corrupt mindes , and destitute of trueth : how saiest thou now Miso-daemon , is it not best counsell to leane vpon the Scriptures ?

Truelie the Apostles wordes are most certen , for these sinnes haue ouertaken some men that haue written of this argument , as may be seene in their works : let me heare then first Theophilus , what thou canst say of those witches which are mentioned in scripture .

First this I say , that the Lord in Scripture hath clearelie numbred and distinguished 7. or 8. speciall artes of the deuill , practised by wicked men and women , Deut 18. 10. 11. v. for albeit most agree in the interpretation , yet some varie in the number , The place is commonlie translated on this manner : Let none be found among you that maketh his sonne or his daughter to go through the fire , or that vseth witchcraft , or a regarder of times , or a marker of the flying of foules , or a sorcerer , or a charmer , or that counselleth with spirits , or a sooth sayer , or that asketh counsell at the dead .

What was the occasion of this great charge of God vnto his people , and where had these artes their beginning ?

Hemingius writeth on this manner : Admonit . de superst . magic . Like , as Sathan vsed the serpent in the beginning to seduce our first parents from the obedience of Gods worde vnto his service : so it is not to be doubted that after that fall , he vsed man him selfe his instrument by magicall arts to withdraw men from faith in the promise of their redemption by Christ . Methodius saith thus : Methodius . In the 340. yeere of Iered , there arose some of the posteritie of Cain , inventers of euill artes , as Ibbeth & Tholuscal , the sonnes of blind Lamech , who yealding themselues to the dominion of the deuill , became practisers of all magicall sciences . After the flood , * * Ludov. Viu . Tom. 2. p. 4. Zoroastres in the dayes of Ninus King of Babylon , and is thought to be that cursed Cham , the sonne of Noah ; this wicked man , as most writers affirme , practised also all these artes , and commended them to his posteritie ; for Misraim was his sonne , of whome came the Egiptians , Babylonians , Persians , Cicer. de divinat . which nations of al others were most famous in the world for these Sathanical sciences . Hereby it may most manifestly appeare , for what cause the Lord giueth this great charge vnto his people , concerning these artes , that they might not be found among them . Exod. 7. First , for that they were lately come from that Idolatrous nation , where this horrible impietie was continually professed , practised , Es. 47. & maintained Secondly , least afterward they should learne these exercises of other nations round about them , Daniel 2. or of the Babylonians and Persians ( among whom also they should soiourne for a time ) by wicked acquaintance and conversation .

Now teach me briefely what those artes were , so distinctly numbred in that place , & let me see where any examples of their practise is mentioned , that so we may the better vnderstande whether they were practised by man onely , or by Sathan him selfe by the ministerie of man .

Let vs then begin with that kind first whereof the law is giuen , exo. 22. 18. for vnder this saith M. Calvin & Gaellasius , n n Gallas . in Exod. 22. all the rest are vnderstoode in that place : the witch there named is Mecasephath , in Hebrue : o o Dialog. p. 19. Tremel . & Pagnin . translate it praestigiatricem , a witch working diuelish delusions . Heming . Danaeus , & Bodin p p De demo . do the same , q q Annot. in Deut. 18. Luther turneth the word maleficam , but in the same sence , and to the same purpose .

Yea , but I remember Andreas Massius the r r Dis. p. 109. most famous hebritian in the world , saith this word signifieth a poisoner , because the Greeke Septuagint translate it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and therefore this law is giuen directly against poysoners .

The Greeke translators might well name a witch by that name , for all writers agree that their greatest practise is by poison & powders , which the deuil teacheth them to hurt withall . Bodin faith , Pars magorum maximamedicos solet & exorcist as agere : the most part of witches play the phisicians & are exorcists . And it is known s s De Dem. p. 472. true by common experience . Danaeus faith , t t Dial. c. 4. p. 55. Alijs venena confecta & parata praebet , alios docet nova conficere & miscere : The deuil ministreth vnto some witches poyson readie made , & he teacheth others to cenfect & compound new . Again , the Apostle vseth the greek word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not for poisoning , but for al magical artes , as both Ierom & Musculus Ierom. & Muscul . in Gal. 5. testifie in their Comment. vpon this place : the same word is vsed in the same sense . Rev. 22. 15. & 21. 8. 9. 21. And surely it appeares plainlie , this kinde of witch was not one that dealt with poison , Dan. 2. 2 , 3. for Nebuchadnezzer calleth for these Mecasephim to interpret his dreame . And Hierome saieth , u u Com. in Esa. 57. Rages Babilonios fecisse cuncta ad eorum consilia , They were then belike the Kings wise counsellers , and therefore no poysoners or coozeners . The cause why the Lewe is giuen of a woman witch , is ( saith Bodin ) because women commonlie practise these artes , according to the Hebrewe prouerbe , Quo● plus mulierum co● plus magorumest , The more women the more witches . The same saith M. Calvin , Borrahus , x x Com. in Exod. 22. Gellasius , and others .

Nowe tell me , are there anie examples which haue practised this kind of witchcraft mentioned in the scripture ?

That there are : for the witches of Egypt , Exod. 7. 11. and the witches of Babylon , Dan. 2. 2. are called by these names mecasephim , and chartummim .

And what can you finde in the sorcerers of Egipt , more then iagling , legerdemaine , couzenage , naturall y y D. p. ●9 . 8. magicke , &c.

The circumstances of that storie , and al interpretors say plainelie they wrought by the deuill . For the Scripture Exod. 7. saith plainlie they wrought their wonders in the presence of Pharaoh and his nobles : v. 10. and before Moses and Aaron . If these witches then could haue shewed but the feares of naturall magicke , &c. they had bene soone discouered . Pharaoh himselfe thought verelie they wrought the same waie that Moses & Aaron did : forthus one saith , Iacob . Ziegle . com in . cap. 8. Exod. Pharaoh arbitrabatur istud inter vtrosque differre : quod hi amplius illis in magicis artibus profecissent : Pharaoh thought this was the difference betweene both , that the one had more profited in the artes of magicke then the other ▪ and not in iugling , coosenage , naturall magicke , &c. And surely Hierome and others thinke they were in great reputation with their Kings both in Egipt and Babylon , and therefore it is like they professed a more deepe science , then anie rude facultie of coozenage , & practised greater matters then the iollie feats of leger-demaine .

And that thou maiest vnderstand , Myso-daemon , that others also are of the same iudgement concerning these magicians : one saith of them , a a Procopius Gaz. soph . in Exod 7. Has machinas apponit Diabolus , &c. It is the deuill that vseth these engines : meaning that Iannes & Iambres did vse diabolicall artes against Moses & Aaron . M. Calvin writeth thus : b b Calvin . com . in Exod. 7. Quum ex genuina philosophia prolapsi essent magi Egyptij , retinent sapientum nomen v● fidem illusionibus acquirerent : when the magitians of Egipt had fallen from the true philosophie ( whereby he meaneth naturall philosophie and naturall magicke ) they would still be called wisemen , to win credit to their delusions : & then he addeth , est horribile exemplum laxat as magis habenas : this is a horrible example , that magitians should haue this libertie . Againe , he saith , Deum c c Com. in c. 8. 15. arti suae hostem opponunt : they oppose God as an enemie to their arte : by these few words , it may soone be vnderstood , what magitians these were , in this learned mans iudgement . Brentius d d Com. in Exod. 7. saith , Miracula Eg●ptiorum erant ludibria Sathanae : The Egiptians miracles were the delusions of Sathan . Gellasius e e Com. in Exod. 7. 11. writeth on this manner : Ist● astrologiae & physicae , magiam ac divinationem , inuocationem demonum , &c. adiunxerat . These Egiptians added to their astrologie and natural philosophie , magicke and divination , inuocation of deuils , &c. Musculus , Com. in Genes. 41. 8. saith plainely , these had their artes of Sathan . All these ( as thou seest My sodaemon ) testifie , that the magitians of Egipt , wrought by the deuill .

Now let me heare what is the second kinde of witches , mentioned in Scripture .

The witches of the second kinde , are called in the originall tongue , Aob , Aoboth : by this word , the holy Ghost vnderstandeth certaine familiar spirites , which whisper with their witches , at it were , out of a tubbe or bottle , saieth Danaeus , Heming . Calv Luth. Bodin , and others : for the worde properly signifieth a bottle ; as Iob. 32. 19. Ceoboth cadashim , as new bottles . But whatsoeuer is the cause of that borrowed name , for this witches deuill , this must be obserued diligently , that this witch & her spirit , are alwaies clearely distinguished . For the witch , 1. Sam. 28. v. 6 , 7. is not called Aob , but Bagnalath , maried to Aob , for so the word signifieth , Aob , or possessing Aob . Predita pythone , saith Tremel . & Shoel Aob , Deu. 18. 10. one which enquireth , or saluteth praieth , & intreateth Aob , if therfore here be but coosenage , there must be two cooseners at the lest , so there are , & the witch is one , the deuilan other . Againe , Lev. 20. 27. Ciijh●eh bahem Aob , if Aob , that is , the deuill , be in them .

If this Aob , was but a pythonist , as Tremel ▪ and others say , then I prooue it to be but coosenage , on this manner . Apollo the pythonist , and the oracles at Delphos were of this kind , & were most famous indeede , yet but meere coosenage , & therfore this was the like . I prooue mine Antecedent . a a Dis. p. 137. 138. Gregori Neocaesariensis , soiouruing with Apollos priest one night , after his departure the oracle ceased : the priest sought after him and requested him not to hinder his wonted reuelations : a a Dis. p. 137. 138. Gregorie yeilded and said to the oracle , permit to tibi redire in locum tuum & agere quae consuevisti , I permit thee to returne to thy place , and doe as thou wast woont . If there had bene a deuil there , it is not like this holy man would haue giuen him that libertie . Euseb. hath this storie in his 7. booke chap. 25.

I assure thee Mysodaemon , I can find no such thing in all that historie . * * See Grinaeus last edition & Christopherson . See Grinaeus last edition , and Christophersons , and Grinaeus marginall note vpon Ruffinus translation . I thinke this be but some legends fable , for it sauours much like such stuffe : as for the Gregories , b b Socr. li. 4. ca. 22. Socrates saith ther were foure of them in number : one was Origens scholler , & that was this Neocaesariensis , the 2. was Basils brother , the 3. was Gregor. Nazianzen , the 4. was Gregor. Alexandrius . And as for this Gregor. Neocaesar . he was a faithfull pastor of a Church in Pontus as Euseb. c c Lib. 6. ca. 29. &c. writeth , Gregorius & Athenodorus fra●res , paraeciarum quae in Ponto sunt pastores . Gregorie and Athenodore brethren , were pastors of parishes in Pontus . It is not like then that this man ( being so excellent for learning and godlines as Socrates reporteth him to be in the forenamed place ) would permit the deuils oracle that libertie , if he could restraine it . Wherefore Mysodaemon , I thinke thou groundest thy reason vpon a fable . And as for this oracle of Apollo , if it were but cousenage , wherefore did this cousenage cease when the gospell shined , for cousening hypocrites are in the Church , and will bee foreuer where the gospell is preached . And wherefore must the deuill in Constantines time creepe ( as it were ) into some hollow caues , was it be cause cousenage creeps in corners ? for Euseb. saith , Apollinem autem id temporis , d d De vita Const. lib. 2. cap. 49. ex antro quodam & tenebricoso recessu , non ex sacerdotis ore , hoc or aculum aedidisse ferunt .