IT misliketh you muche , M. Hardinge , that in so many , and sundrie cases by mee mooued , wherin standeth the greattest force of your Religion , I shoulde saie , You , and others of that parte are vtterly voide , not onely of the Scriptures , but also of the Olde Councelles , and Ancient Fathers , and that in suche an Audience , I should so precisely , & so openly discoouer the wantes , and weakenesse of your side . And therefore , The greatter my heape riseth , the lesse , saie you , is mine aduantage .

Whereunto I may easily replie , The larger is mine Offer , the more wil your discrete Reader mislike the insufficiencie of your Answeare : and the more enlarged is your libertie , the lesse cause haue you to complaine .

Wise men , ye saie , woulde more haue liked greatter Modestie . Uerily , the men , that you cal Wise , woulde haue thought it greattest Modestie , to haue dissembled , and saide nothinge . But what may the same Wise menne thinke of your Modestie , that hauinge so often made so large , and so liberal offers of so many Doctours , are not hable in the ende to shewe vs one ?

Neither looke wee so fiercely , nor shake wee the swearde so terribly , as you reporte vs . This was euermore your , and your felowes special , and peculiar commendation : Who bisides your fierce , and cruel lookes , and bisides the shakinge , and terroure of your swearde , haue also hewen , and cutte , and slaine , and filled your handes with the bloude of your Brethren .

Wherefore , ye shoulde not take it in suche griefe , that , onely for distinctions sake , by so Ciuile , and courteous a name wee cal you our Aduersaries . For , findinge you armed with Swearde , and Fiere , and embrewed with our Bloude , wée might wel haue spared you some other name . That I saide , Ye haue no suche assurance of the Ancient Fathers , as ye haue borne vs in hande , and as your frendes vpon your credite haue beléeued , I saide it not , neither of Ambition , as you expounde it , nor of Malice : but forced thereto by your importunitie , and with great griefe of minde .

Therefore ye did mee the greatter wronge , to saie , I came vaunting , as Goliath , and throwinge foorth my glooue , like a chalenger , and proclaiminge defiance to al the worlde .

In these woordes , M. Hardinge , Wise menne may finde some wante of your Modestie . For , who so auoucheth the manifest , and knowen Trueth , and saieth , that you bothe haue béene deceiued your selues , and also haue deceiued others , ought not therefore to be called Goliath . And , notwithstandinge you haue aduentured your selfe , to be the Noble Dauid , to conquere this Giante , yet for as muche as ye haue neither Dauids slinge in your hande , Extra . De Constitu . Licet . nor Dauids stoanes in your scripp● , and therefore not likely to woorke greate maisteries , ye may not looke , that the Ladies of Israel with their Lutes , De Electio . & Elect. potestate . Significasti . 9. quae . 3. Nemo . and Timbrelles wil receiue you in triumphe , or singe before you , Dauid hath conquered his tenne thousandes . He rather is Goliath , that setteth his face againste the Heauens , and his foote in Emperours neckes : and openeth his mouthe a wide , to vtter blasphemies : That soundeth out these woordes into al the worlde , De Maioritate , & Obedientia : Vnam Sanctam . I cannot erre : I haue al lawes , bothe Spiritual , and Temporal in my breaste : I am aboue as General Councelles : I may Iudge al men : but al the worlde may not Iudge mee , bee I neuer so wicked : I am Kinge of Kinges , and Lorde of Lordes : I can doo , what so euer Christe him selfe can doo : In glosa . I am al , and aboue al : Al power is geuen to mee , as wel in Heauen , as in Earthe . In Concil. Lateran . Sub Iulio . Ye knowe , whose woordes these bée , by whom they are spoken , by whom they are defended , and to whom they are applied . This séemeth to be the very expresse , and liuely Image of Goliath : That Goliath , I saie , whom nowe you sée knockte in the foreheade , and fallinge downe , not with force of worldly power , but onely with that litle roughe despiced stoane of Goddes euerlastinge , and heauenly Woorde . Touchinge that moste woorthy , and learned Father , sometime your Maister , D. Peter Martyr , whom ye would séeme somewhat to commende , not for his Doctrine , from whiche you haue so suddainely fallen awaie , but onely for his modestie : it cannot be doubted , but he , beinge at Poissy in that woorthy assemblie , in the presence of the Kinge , and of other the Princes , and Nobles of that Realme , bothe did , and spake , that might stande with the trueth of the cause , and also might wel become his owne personne . But beinge demaunded his iudgement in these cases , he would haue answeared , euen as wee doo , and woulde muche haue marueiled , that any learned man would saie the contrary . Not longe sithence ye made the Pulpites ringe , that your Masse , and● al other your whole Doctrine , was assured vnto you by Christe , and his Apostles , and that for the same ye had the vndoubted continuance , and succession of fiftéene hundred yéeres , the consent of al the olde Councels , Doctours , and Fathers , and al Antiquitie , and the Uniuersal allowance of al the worlde . Thus ye doubted not then to saie , without feare of controlment of God , or man . Many thousandes thought ye dealte simply , and woulde not deceiue them : and therefore were easily leadde to beleeue you .

In this case Christian dewtie , and Charitie required , that the trueth , and certaintie of your tales shoulde be opened , that the simple mighte vnderstande , ye had deceiued them , and that of al that your so large talke , and countenance of Antiquitie you were , as you wel knowe , vtterly hable to auouche nothinge . Where as it so muche offendeth you , that I shoulde so precisely auouche the Negatiue , and require you to prooue your Affirmatiue , whereof ye woulde séeme so wel assured , it may please you to consider , that S. Gregorie writinge against Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople , that had intitled him selfe the Uniuersal Bishop of the whole world , reasteth him selfe likewise vpon the Negatiue . His woordes be these : Nemo de●essorum meorum hoc superbo vocabulo vti consensit : Lib. 4. epist. 32. Nemo Romanorum Po●tificum hoc Singularitatis nomen assumpsit . None of my Predecessours euer consented to vse this arrogante name : No Bishop of Rome euer tooke vpon him this name of Singularitie . S. Augustine , when he had reckened vp al the Bishoppes of Rome , before his time , August . epis. 165. added thereto by a Negatiue , In hoc ordine successionis nullus Donatista Episcopus inuenitur : In this order of Succession there is founde no Bishop , that was a Donatiste . Yet neither S. Augustine , nor S. Gregorie was euer condemned for Goliath . By the like Negatiue , you , M. Hardinge , your selfe saie , although vntruely , as ye doo many other thinges bisides , That neither M. Iuel , nor any one of his side is hable to shewe , In the 3. Article , and in the 15. Diuision . that the publique Seruice of the Churche in any nation , was euer for the space of sixe hundred yeeres after Christe , in any other tongue , then in Greeke , or Latine . And yet wée may not therefore cal you , either Goliath , or Thersites , or by any other like vncourteous name . You saie , I take presumptuously vpon mee , to haue readde al thinges , and to be ignorant of nothinge : onely bicause I saie , you in these cases can allege nothinge . And why so ? Can no man discrie your wantes , and disclose your Untruethes , without presumption ? You say , ye haue the consent of al Doctours , of al ages , and of al times , of your side , shal wee therefore saie , that you vaunte your selfe of your knowledge ? or , that you knowe al thinges , and are ignorante of nothinge ? You saie , Ye haue al the Doctours . I saie , and true it is , Ye haue not one Doctoure . The difference of these saieinges standeth onely in this , that the one is true , the other vntrue : That your Affirmatiue cannot be prooued : My Negatiue cannot bee reprooued . But , touchinge vaunte of readinge , and knowledge , there is no difference .

Howe be it , for as muche as , this Negatiue so muche offendeth you of our side , let vs hardly turne it of your side : And let vs saie so , as it may bes●e like you , to haue vs saie : That it cannot appeare , by any sufficient clause , or sentence , either of the Scriptures , or of the Olde Doctours , or of the Ancient Councelles , or by any Example of the Primitiue Churche , either , that the Prieste then receiued the Holy Communion togeather with the people : or , that the Sacrament was then ministred vnto the people vnder bothe kindes : or , that the publique Praiers were euer saide in the Uulgare , or Knowen tongue : or , that the whole people thereto saide , Amen , within the space of sixe hundred yéeres after Christe . Let vs saie further , that Christe him selfe , and al his Apostles saide Priuate Masse , and receiued the Holy Sacramente seuerally alone : That al the Ancient Fathers ministred the halfe Communion onely vnder One Kinde : That al the Common Praiers were euerywhere saide in a strange Learned Tongue , vtterly vnknowen vnto the People . This offer is frée , and liberal . And what can you desire more ? But perhaps it shameth you to saie so muche . For , al be it some of you haue often saide it , yet the vntrueth thereof is manifest , and sheweth it selfe .

Onely ye wishe , I had vsed some greatter Modestie . And woulde you , that I shoulde haue saide , Ye haue one Ancient Doctoure directly , and plainely of your side , and so in that place , and in that presence , for Modesties sake , to haue auouched open Untruethe , as you , and others had donne before ? O , M. Hardinge , in these cases a meane waie is no waie . Accursed is that Modestie , that drowneth the Truethe of God . Chrysostome saithe , 11. quaest. 3. Nolite . Veritarem negat , qui cam non liber● praedicat . He is a renouncer of the Truethe , that dareth not freely to saye the Truethe .

Ye saie , I haue soughte vp certaine smal quaestions of light importance , wherein the Ancient Doctours haue not traueiled , as not daringe to enter into maters of greatter weight . Howe be it , it seemeth ouer muche for you , to limite , and appointe eche man , what he shoulde preache at Paules Crosse. Neither is it muche material , whether these maters be Greate , or Smal : but , whether you , by colour of the same , haue deceiued the people .

But woulde ye haue vs nowe at laste beléeue , that your Masse , your Transubstantiation , your Real Pres●nce , your Adoration , your Sacrificinge of the Sonne of God , and your Supremacie of Rome be so smal maters ? Ye tolde vs not longe sithence , there were no other maters so greate , as these . And may we thinke , that your Religion is nowe greatter , nowe smaller : and increaseth , and vadeth : and waxeth , and waneth , as doothe the Moone ? Uerily Pope Nicolas woulde haue ioyned your Transubstantiation to the Crede , and woulde haue made it the Thirteenthe Article of our Faithe . And Pope Boniface the eight saithe , Extra . de Maiorita & Obedi . Vnam Sanctam . Dist. 22. Omnes . that to be subiecte to the Churche of Rome , is of the necessitie of Saluation . And Pope Nicolas saithe , Who so euer deuieth the Authoritie , and preeminence of that See , is an Heretique .

Notwithstandinge , howe Greate , or Smal these maters be , it forceth not . In déede , you had learned them in very smal time : and , as nowe , ye auouche them with very smal proufes . And , howe smal , and lighte so ●uer you woulde nowe haue them to appeare , yet for the same , ye haue made no smal adoo . Nothinge ought to be taken for smal , wherewith so greate multitudes of Goddes people maie be deceiued .

The maters , wherewith Christe charged the Phariseis , were not so Greate . Yet Christe saithe vnto them , Matthae . 23. 1. Corin. ● . Ye strayne a g●at , and swalowe a Camel . S. Paule saithe , A little leauen loureth a whole ●umpe of doughe . A heare is smal , yet wee reade , it hath chokte a bigge man . The Canon . Plato saithe , Robberie is no lesse in a Smal mater , then in a Greate . The Ciniphes were but smal : yet are they reckened emonge the greate plagues of God . They that firste beganne to maineteine that arrogante presumptuous title , of Uniuersal Bishop , whiche nowe the Bishop of Rome chalengeth wholy to him selfe , saide , it was but a Smal mater . But Gregorie saithe , Gregor. lib. 6. epist. 30. Alia sunt friuola , & innoxia : alia sunt friuola , & noxia : Some thinges are Smal , and doo no hurte : some thinges are Smal , and doo greate hurte . And comparinge the same with the pride of Antichriste , who shoulde cal him selfe , Deus , ( that is to saie , Ibidem . God ) He saithe thus , Si spectes quantitatem vocis , duae sunt Syllabae : Si pondus iniquitaris , est vniuersa pernicies . Yf ye weigh the quantitie of the woorde , it standeth in two syllables : If the weight of the wickednes , it is an vniuersal destruction .

Though these maters were Smal , yet the Untruethes , and Errours , that thereof haue risen , are not Smal. Remooue the same , and your greattest Religion wil fal to nothinge . To conclude , if these maters be Greate , they are the more woorthy to be considered : if they be Smal , there is the lesse hurte in leauinge of them , and the more wilfulnesse in defendinge of them : Uerily the whole worlde is weary of them . Luke . 16. Christe saieth , Qui in modico iniquus est , & in maiori iniquus est . He that is wicked in the Smal , is also wicked in the Greate .

You saie , We flee , and forbeare the Iudgemente of the Learned , and shake out these thinges with greate admiration onely emongest the simple . As Alexander the Kinge of Macedonia made him selfe a God , and had muche talke of his Father Iuppiter emonge the Barbariens : but emongest the Greekes , that were wise , and hable to iudge , and knewe him wel yenough , he was contente to talke of other maters . This comparison , M. Hardinge , is odious , and sauoureth ouer muche of your choler . Wée hunte not for any Admiration , or opinion of Godheade emonge the people . Wée preache not our selues , but Christe Iesus .

But thus the Pharise●s saide of Christe him selfe : These rascalles are accursed , they haue no learninge , they knowe not the Lawe . Emongest them wil he be . There be reigneth like a Prince : There he seeketh to be made a God . Here mighte I eftesones put you in remembrance of him , that hath so longe abused , and mocked the whole worlde , bothe Princes , and Subiectes : as wel learned , as vnlearned : accomptinge them al , as wilde , and barbarous : and hath suffered him selfe openly to be Proclaimed , and published by the name of God . Extra . 10. 22. Cum inter . In Glosa . Dist. 96. Satis euidenter . The woordes be knowen , Dominus Deus noster Papa : Our Lorde God the Pope . And againe , Constat , Papam à pio Principe Constantino Deum appellatum : Et Deum ab hominibus iudicari non posse , manifestum est .

Alexander stoode in some awe , and reuerence of the Wise : but this man despiseth bothe Wise , and Unwise : Learned , and Unlearned , and al the worlde .

It was somewhat out of season for you , in this place to intreate of the Ualiditie of your Canon , & so earnestly to labour , to prooue it faultelesse , before any man had begonne to touche it , or to prooue it faultie . It is supposed , that some parts thereof was diuised by Leo : and afterwarde augmented by Gelasius : and after that by one , Gregor. lib. 7. epist. 63. whome S. Gregorie calleth Scholastieus : and after againe by Gregorius him selfe : and that at laste , aboute eighte hundred , and fiftie yéeres after Christe , it was brought to some perfection , and made vp by Pope Sergius . As nowe , it is more closely pronounced , and more reuerently vsed , then either the Epistle , or the Gospel .

But , whether there be any faulte therein , or none , I leaue that to you , M. Hardinge , to be better considered by your selfe . Your Doctour Durande saithe thus , Durand . libro 4. parte 2. Cùm Sacerdos orauerit pro Hostia Transubstantianda , eamque Transubstantiatam Patri obtulerit , orat pro ipsius acceptatione : When the Priest hath praied for the Transubstantiation of the Hoste , and hath offered the same beinge Transubstantiate vnto God the Father , afterwarde he praieth , that God wil fauourably accepte it .

S. Paule saithe , 1. Timoth. 2. Christe is the Mediatour bitweene God , and Man . But here by your Canon contrarywise , the Prieste is made a Mediatour bitweene God , The Prieste a Mediatour bytweene God , and Christe . and Christe .

And yowe your selfe , M. Hardinge , at your Masse , and in the highest Secretes of your Canon , desire God the Father , to looke fauourably vpon Iesus Christe his owne Sonne , at your request . Your woordes be plaine , and euident : No interpretation , or shifte is hable to salue them . Nowe yf it be meete , yowe shoulde intreate God the Father to be merciful vnto Christe his Sonne , and to beholde him fauourably for your sake , then maie yowe saie , there is no faulte in al your Canon .

Yowe seeme to complaine , that I leaue out praier for the Deade , and Inuocation of Sainctes : And that thinge yowe amplifie largely with many woordes . And yet I thinke , yowe woulde not haue vs beleeue , that these pointes of your Religion be greater , then your Sacrifice , or then your Masse .

Uerily , touchinge the first , I hearde once , when yowe your selfe blewe downe the Paper Walles , In a Sermon preached in S. Maries Churche in Oxforde . as ye then called them , and vtterly quenched al the Painted Fiers of Purgatorie . For the other , S. Chrysostome saith , Homines vtuntur Atriensibus . In Deo nihil est tale . Sine mediatore exorabilis est : Menne vse Porters , and Vsshers . But in God there is no sutche thinge . He is easy to be intreated , yea without a Mediatour . Chrysostom . De Poeniten . hom. 4. Againe he saithe , Nihil tibi opus est Patronis apud Deum . Neque enim tam facile Deus audit , si alij pro nobis orent , quàm si ipsi oremus , etsi pleni simus omnibus malis : Chrysostom . De profectu Euangelij . Thowe needest no Attourney to speake to God . For God dooth not so soone heare vs , when others praie for vs , as when wee praie for our selues : Yea although wee be ful of al sinne . S. Ambrose likewise saithe , Isti se non putant reos , qui honorem nominis Dei deferunt Creaturae , & , relicto Domino , Ambros. in . 1. cap. ad Roman . conseruos adorant . Nam & ideo ad Reges per Tribunos , & Comites itur : quia homo vtique est Rex , & nescit , quibus debeat Rempublicam credere . Ad Deum autem , quem nihil later , omnium enim merita nouit , ad promerendum suffragatore non est opus , sed mente deuota . Vbicunque enim talis ●oquutus fuerit ei , respondebit illi : These menne thinke , they doo no il , geuinge the honoure of God vnto à Creature , and leauinge the Lorde , adoure their felowe seruantes . For therefore wee haue accesse to Kinges by Knightes , and Marshalles , for that the Kinge is a mortal man , and knoweth not , to whom he may commit his Kingedome . But God knoweth al mennes merites , and there is nothinge priuie from him . Therefore to obteine his fauoure , wee neede no Spokesman , but a deuoute minde . Where so euer suche a one shal speake , God wil answeare him .

Where as ye vntruely say , we laie on loade of sclaunders , to deface the Churche , yowe maie remember , that there were sometime that charged S. Steuen , S. Paul , and Christe him selfe in like sorte , for that they seemed , likewise to speake vnreuerently against the Churche . And against the Prophete Hieremie , they cried out , euen as yowe doo nowe , Hieremi. 7. The Temple of God : the Temple of God .

But he defaceth not the Churche , that defaceth the defacers of the Churche : and wipeth of the soile of your Errours , that her face maie shine , and appeare more glorious . When Christe moourned ouer the Citie , and Temple of Hierusalem : or when he saide , Ye haue made my Fathers howse a denne of theeues : And , when Esai saide , O howe is this bewtieful Citie ( that then was the Churche of God ) become an harlot ? Or , Esai . 1. when the Prophete Hieremie saide , Hieremi. 9. Who wil geue abundance of Water vnto myne eies , that I maie moourne daie , and night for the sinnes of my people , Wée maie not thinke , that Christe , Esai , & Hieremie were defacers of the Churche . He hindereth not healthe , that sheweth the disease . He despiseth not the Churche , that setteth Christe before the Churche . The Churche is our Mother : But Christe saithe , Matth. 10. Who so loueth his Father , or Mother more then mee , is not meete to be my Disciple . He despiseth not his Mother , that lamenteth the Captiuitie of his Mother , and deliuereth her from the handes of théeues .

But wee haue set vp Aultar against Aultar : Or rather , as yowe saie , Wee haue ouerthrowen Aultars , and al togeather : And so haue erected a Newe Churche , a Newe Gospel , and a Newe Religion of our owne . Uerily , M. Hardinge , wée haue ouerthrowen nothinge , but that Goddes good wil was , should be ouerthrowen . Christe saithe , Matthae . 15. Euery Plante , that my Heauenly Father hath not planted , shal be rooted vp . An Aultar wée haue , suche as Christe , and his Apostles , and other Holy Fathers had , whiche of the Greekes was called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , The holy Table : And of the Latines , Mensa Dominica , The Table of the Lorde : And was made , not of stoane , but of Timber : and stoode , not at the ende of the quéer , but in the middest of the People , as many waies it maie appeare : And other , or better Aultar , then Christe , and these holy Fathers had , wee desire to haue none : & specially any suche Aultar , as hath benne purposely sette , vp against the Aultar of Christe .

But yowe of your side , Matth. 26. haue saide , Here is Christe , and there is Christe : And so haue erected vp , not onely Aultar against Aultar : and Churche against Churche : but also Christe against Christe . Leo in Epist. ad Palaestinos . Naziaenzenus In Apologetico . So Leo seemeth to saie of yowe , Ecclesiae nomine armamini : sed contra Ecclesiam dimicatis : Ye arme your selues with the name of the Churche : And yet ye fight against the Churche . So saithe Nazianzene , Ye striue for Christe , against Christe him selfe .

But yowe seeme ▪ to set light of myne age , and to dishable my knowledge in Diuinitie : as thoughe it were muche : pertinente vnto these maters , either to calculate myne age , or els to examine the order of my studie . I maie saie with Origen , Gratias ago Deo , quod ignorantiam meam non ignoro : I thanke God , that I am not ignorante of myne ignorance . But , what so euer want either is , or is surmised to be in mée , it ought not to preiudice the Trueth of God .

And yet I sée no greate cause , why any man should séeke so greately to disaduantage mée in respecte of myne age , or studie . For it is wel knowen , that I , although vnwoorthy of that degrée , Anno Domini 1551. anno Eduardi . 6. quinto . proceded Bachelare in Diuinitie in the Uniuersitie of Oxforde one whole yeere , and more before M. Hardinge . In deede , I graunte , I coulde not reade al the Councelles , and Olde Fathers of the Churche , bothe Greekes , and Latines ; in seuen daies , as M. Hardinge coulde . And yet , so muche had I readde , that I marueiled , M. Hardinge woulde euer enterprise , so muche to abuse the names of the holy Fathers .

But knowledge oftentimes is vaine , and puffeth vp the minde . God make vs learned to the Kingedome of God , that wée maie humble al our knowledge to the obedience of Faithe .

It reioiceth mee mutche , that ye saie , ye loue mée , and in respecte of our olde frendship , and loue haue thus written to mée . Howe be it , our olde priuate frenship néedid not so many publique witnesses . Ye saie , Ye wil folowe the later parte of Chiloes Counsel , Oderis , tanquam amaturus : Hate so , as afterwarde thowe maiste loue .

Bytweene whiche your two saieinges , of hatinge , and louinge , I knowe not howe , yowe include a plaine contradiction : Onlesse ye wil saie , Ye can hate , and loue in one respecte bothe togeather . But I take it in the best sense , wherein , I doubt not , but ye meante it .

Howe be it , touchinge your frendly aduise , I maie answeare yowe likewise , with an other péece of Chiloes Counsel : Obsequendum est amico● vsque ad aras : A man maie folowe his frendes Counsel , so it be not , either against God , or against his Conscience . Liberatus . cap. 16. The people of Alexandria saide vnto Timotheus , E●si non communicamus tecum , tamen amamus t● : Although wee Communicate not with yowe , yet wee loue yowe notwithstandinge . Ye promisse to deale herein , without either gal , or bitternesse : For that , as yowe saie , Glikes , Nippes , and Scoffes , Bittes , Cuttes , and Gyrdes ( these be your woordes ) becomme not your stage . And doubtelesse , sutche kinde of dealinge , as it is moste commendable in it selfe , so it seemeth moste sitting for them , that traueile in Goddes causes . Matthae . 11. Christe saithe , Learne of mee , for I am meeke , and gentle .