The Title and inscription of Mr Iacobs book ( because there is often relation vnto it hereafter , both in the Preface , and in the Book it selff , therefore ) I thought good here to insert it at first . Thus it was , word for word , as followeth :

THere came out of late ( good Reader ) two books , from one Mayster Henry Iacob , a Priest of the Orders of the Prelates . The first was agaynst his Lord , Mr D. Bilson , now Prelate of Winchester , concerning Christs suffrings and descending into Hell . The latter agaynst me by name , and others like mynded , towching the Church and Ministery of England .

Now although the Prelates could not well be offended at him , for publishing the former agaynst the doctrine of theyr Church , senig ( * * In K. Edw tyme , about 50. Yeares synce . long before him ) Mr Carlill a learned man had both publikly disputed in Cambridge , and printed a book , agaynst that error of Christs descension , and that with great approbation of the most godly and learned at that tyme : Yet belike fearing the worst , and knowing the hatred of the Prelates how deadly it is , he did presently after send forth his other book , in defence of the Churches and Ministery of England . So as whatsoever displeasure his Lords the Prelates conceyved agaynst him for the former , there was now some hope that they might sooner be appeased vpon view of the latter . Or howsoever it should fall out , yet what like lyer way could he take , to make all sure on his side , then by the first book to get the forward Preachers and professors to take his part agaynst the Prelates , and by the other to have both them and the Prelates themselves to stand with him agaynst vs ?

Yet I heare some of his owne coat give out , that he hath dealt very simply , in publishing so weak and raw a Treatise against vs . And true it is in deed , that his Treatise is such . In the publishing whereof , no wisedome hath he shewed at all : vnles it be in this , that he hath thus let all the world see , that against the errors of the Church of England there is plenty of Scripture to be had and vrged , but not a jote to be found for defence of theyr Worship , Ministery , constitution , &c. For ( if you mynd it ) † † Yet I deny not but he hath scattered some errors also in that book . in his book against Bilson , about the question of Christs suffrings and descending into Hell , you shall see proof after proof readily brought from the word of God . And on the contrary , in his book against vs , not onely no such proof , but in stead thereof , eyther his owne assertions and comparisons obtruded vnto vs as oracles : or the Names of Mr Cranmer , Mr Ridley , and other dead men , opposed to the word of the living God : or putting over his cause to the State to be defended , himself being not able to speak one poore word in defence thereof , &c. Such is his latter book , and such are the grounds of it . A very great and straunge difference , between two books , set out by one and the same man , the one straight after the other , and both of them in matter of Religion .

If I had first published these Replyes and Aunswers which passed between vs , no doubt but many would have had a prejudice thereof , and all would have thought I had done it purposely to shew the weaknes of that cause and falsehood of that Ministery , &c. But now when he , a member of that Church , yea a Minister of it , even a Priest of the Prelates creation , hath first published them : albeit the same thing be done , yet it is both without all prejudice , and pretended by him for defence of the Churches and Ministery of England .

Be it , that he hath not done it so well , as many would have it : yet it is the best he could . And what if he thought by this meanes , eyther to stirre vp some others more able herevnto . or at least to shew his owne good will ? Doubtles where there is want of ability , a mans good will is to be accepted . And why should any then misinterpret so good a meaning ? If any of the Prelates or others of that Church like it not , they may learne by his example iff not to lay theyr hand on theyr mouth , yet to try if they can plead the cause any better . For worse . I suppose they would be ashamed to do it .

I had thought in this case I should never have seen any more absurd writing , then Mr Giffards and Bredwels . But now to Mr Iacob may they well give place . And iff any can be found of all the Priests in England more sencelesse then these , let such for theyr worthynes ( as standerd bearers ) be Prelates of theyr chiefest Seas . And as for Mr Iacob , seing he hath done his best , let all men be content to beare with his simplicity , who otherwise might well note his folly , for vndertaking ius how the defence of that , which yet in deed he leaveth altogether naked and helples .

By the title of his book , it seemeth he thought to carry away the simple Reader , who eyther could not or would not mynd what should follow after it .

In the book it self , he thinketh his plea to be very good , if he can say for the Ministery and other abominations of theyr Church , They are errors , but not fundamentall : sinnes against the Second commandement , but not vtterly abolishing from Christ , &c. And this is the summe of his whole book . A plea which he counteth vnaunswerable . Yet in deed no other , but such as openeth a wide doore for all maner errors and sinnes to be receyved and nourished amonge them which themselves shall presume not to be fundamentall , &c. So that now theyr Church is ready ( when they please ) to entertayne agayne the offices of Abbats , Monks , Fryers , Nonnes , Cardinals &c. the doctrines and practise of Auricular confession : Prayer in an vnknowen toungue : Prayer for the dead : Seven Sacraments : Holy water : holy ashes , holy palmes , holy bread : Creame , spittle , oyle , and salt in Baptisme : Consubstantiation : Deniall of the cup to the lay people : Denyall off warres and Magistracy in Christians : Denyall of Mariage in Ministers , &c. For these and many mo errors of the Papists , Lutherans , Anabaptists , it is like they hold not to be fundamentall , And therefore although theyr Church receyve them , yet is Mr Iacobs defence as sound for them then , as it is now : Neyther may any for these or the like separate from theyr Church , worship , or Ministery , if you will beleev him . Yet note , that for proof of this assertion , you must let them take day . For as yet they can shew you none .

And what now , if any of the errors which the Church of England at this day retayneth be fundamentall ? What will Mr Iacob say to that ? Then agayne he is at a flat Non plus , and all his book is not worth a rush , save that it yeelds vs the cause , and graunts theyr Church to be a false Church , and theyr people to be no true Christians in that estate . For this therefore see what is sayd in the Treatise hereafter following , Pag. 22. 114. 147. 148.

What also if D. Bilson should aunswer Mr Iacob . for that poynt of Christs descension into Hell , as he aunswereth vs for theyr Church corruptions , that though it be an error , yet it is not fundamentall , yea and that they in K. Edwards dayes held it , Mr Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , &c. Would Mr Iacob take this of his word , or think it a sufficient warant for the holding thereoff , or bynd others to be likewise mynded &c.

But to let this passe , let Mr Iacob mynd well the estate and practise of theyr Church , but in such particulars , as I have named hereafter , Pag. 63. 64. 65. and then let him aunswer as before God , Are they lawfull , or vnlawfull ? Are they of Christ , or Antichrist ? Of God or the Divell ? Lead they to heaven . or hell ? May they be found in the Word and Churches of God , or in the Popes Churches , Canons , Portuis , Pontificall ? May they any maner way be approved and communicated withall , or are they not wholy and with detestation to be refused and abhorred ?

For aunswer hereof I will wayte , till Mr Iacob reply agayne . And in the meane tyme I will now aunswer what he and his Prefacemaker have already published . Where first I desier the Reader , in both of them , and in Bridges , Bancroft , Bilson , Hooker , Sutcliff , and all such writers of that Church , to mynd these three things .

1. That all theyr reasoning and perswasions are no other , but such as may lead men , eyther backe agayne to Popery , or the ready way to Atheisme , or at least to receyve whatsoever religion the Prince pleaseth , so themselues account it not to be fundamentall . Thus are they all blynd guydes : Thus do they all teach to continew in sinne . Thus do they shut vp the kingdome of heaven before men , neyther entring in themselues , nor suffring them that would enter , to come in .

2. That they do even set themselues to carpe at the truth it self , and at the mayntenance and practise thereoff . To which end they vse they care not what objections , and abuse they care not whom .

3. That they never do so much as offer to bring proof from the Scripture for theyr estate and practise . See the particulars afterward rehearsed , Pag. 63. 64. 65. And mynd iff there be any of them all , that in any book they have written ▪ have brought warrant for them from the word of God . Onely D. Whitgift made an assay for some of them : but he was so taken downe by Mr Cartwright , as he was glad to lay downe the bucklers , which synce that tyme neyther himselff nor any other durst take vp . And now Sutcliffe himselff can tell them , iff Mr Cartwright have the better hand of D. Whitgift , that then the Church of England is no true Church of Christ , and that there is iust cause to departe and separate from it . Sut. Engl. b. Pag. 228.

These things noted , I do now come to Mr Iacobs book : and first to the Preface , which his fellow and frend at a need hath prefixed before it . Where I will for more evidence of the truth and stopping of theyr mouths , first set downe his owne words ( as I do also Mr Iacobs afterward in the book it self ) and then make aunswer vnto them . He that made or wrote the Preface , subscribeth his Name thus , D. B. And thus he beginneth it :

The Aunswer . These two letters , Geuev . Scot. & Allobrog . Disc. Pag. 7. D. B. I fynd to be set for Doctor Bancroft now Prelate of London in a * shameles book of his , not long synce sparsed abroad . In which respect , as also considering many as godles things here agayne published , albeit some might think it were therefore to be ascri●ed vnto him , yet for other causes partly appearing in the book , partly knowen of the man , I thinck this Preface was not made by him : but rather by another ” ” Daniel Buck D. B. a Scrivener of London , a man that hath turned his coat and forsaken the truth , as often as † † Doct. Pern● D. P. the old turne coat did , if not also oftner . He it was , that by letters desired of me , to aunswer Mr Iacobs Argument , as here is said : being himself at that tyme separated from the false worship and Ministery of England , to which vomit he is now againe returned , wallowing in that ●●yer from which then he was washed . Then also he could say , himself thought Mr. Iacobs Argument was frivolous and of no waight , and that his desier with some others was to have it answered for the stopping of Mr Iacobs mouth , who thought it vnaunswerable .

Herevpon I made answer vnto it : and as there was occasion by Mr Iacobs doubled Replyes , have aunswered agayne and agayne . I have also , for sundry causes , consulted with others therein : and namely , with Mr Henry Ainsworth Teacher of our Church , my work-fellow to the kingdome of God , approved in Christ : At London . 1593. and Mr Daniel Studley another off our Elders , who hath given vp his life for the Name of our Lord Iesus Christ : being first * ad●udged to death , afterward exiled , &c. And now vnto thee , good Christian Reader , I exhibit the whole Treatise ( conteyning beside that which was published before , my aunswer also to Mr Iacobs second and last Reply ) that thou mayest try the matter by the word off God : and as it agreeth therewith , so to receyve it , and no further nor otherwise .

The Aunswer . All that the publisher hath published here is eyther some foolish conceits of his owne , or some frivolous cavils and malicious calumniations against the truth and vs that professe it . His conceits , of his owne knowledge and our ignorance : of his owne strength & others weaknes : of reclayming and satisfying many by publishing this discourse : of the force and plainenes of Mr. Iacobs Replyes &c. I omit , according to the rule which saith , * * Prov. 26.4 . Aunswer not a foole according to his foolishnes , least thou also be like him . But his cavils and calumniations , against the truth and witnesses thereof ( being also objected by Mr Iacob in his Replyes ) I have aunswered in the Treatise following , according to the counsell of the same Wisdome which saith , † † Pro. 26.5 . Aunswer a foole according to his foolishnes , least he be wise in his owne eyes . The Aunswer therefore to that which here he obiecteth , of our assertions and sentences , of our former and present acknowledgement of the Church of England her profession , doctrines , members , Assemblyes , &c. see it in the Treatise following , Pag. 7. 16. 20. 22. 33. 60. 63. 73. 82. 86. 94. 103. 106. 116. 120. 147. 158. 162. 170. 177. 188. 196. 200. &c.

And here note withall , 1. That in all these things we are still of the same mynd , as heretofore Mr Barrow , Mr Penry , my self , and the rest of vs have ben . So far are we from crossing , denying , or any way altering our former judgement and confession : as he falsely pretendeth . For which see : Pag. 177. 178. 179. 180. 181. 2. That we do not hate , contemne , and despise theyr Church which he calleth the Mother that bare vs &c. but inasmuch as we have ben members thereof heretofore ( in which respect she was then in deed our Mother ) but now do see her to stand in adulterous estate : we do therefore plead with her : that she may take away her fornications out of her sight and her adulteryes from between her brests : And we go out of her : that we may not partake in her sinnes : and that we receyve not of her plagues . Both which things we do : at the commaundement of God and by warrant of his word : wherein he hath straitly charged all his people , thus for to walk . Hos. 2.2 . Rev. 18 , 4. 3. That even of the Church of Rome it may in some respect be said : The doctrines and profession of that Church are sufficient to salvation : viz. if the truths they hold be considered alone and apart from theyr errors and corruptions / and these other also not imputed vnto them . For confirmation whereof / see in the Treatise following / Pag. 47. But now then I aske / Are they of England therefore in a grievous schisme / in so peremptory condemning / and separating from such Christians and Churches ? Let him aunswer in his next . 4. That this D. B. himself hath heretofore held and witnessed , that the Church of England standeth in Antichristian estate : worshippeth God in vayne : putteth from her the truth and ordinance of Christ : is in her constitution a daughter of Babylon the Mother of whoredomes &c. and therefore if now he deny it ( as he hath begun ) is both runne headlong into an intolerable sinne and extremity / without all warrant of Gods word / and besides giveth just occasion to be called a fearfull Apostate / in so wholy falling ( and that advisedly / for advantage sake / as it seemeth playnely to appeare ) from so notable a truth which before he embraced and acknowledged . Advisedly ( I say ) as this Preface and his daily practise declareth . For advantage sake / because he hath done it in loue of himself / seeking his owne things ( not that which is Christs ) : that he might have prayse of men and account in the world / that he might be released from imprisonment ( where somtymes he hath ben a witnes of Christ in bands ) that he might enjoy the favour of his Frends : that he might without feare and disturbance of the Prelates or theyr Officers † † Rev. 13 . 1● . buy and sell / that is , keep his shop / follow his trade / make profit and advantage thereby for himself , &c. This by his course of dealing appeareth to be his case . But both him and all others that eyther refuse or forsake the truth / we leave vnto God who tryeth the hearts and searcheth the reynes / and will give every man according to his works . 5. That the word of God being on our side / for our profession and practise ( as in the Discourse following is shewed ) : we neyther do nor need regard this mans or any other theyr tales / clamours / abuses / threats / reproches / sclaunders &c. The mischief of theyr tongues / God will bring vpon theyr owne heads / if they repent not . To him we commit it .

The Aunswer . This second note of his , is as foolish , as frivolous , as contumelions , as the former . See it here , in his chaunging of the question between vs : in his lessening of theyr corruptions : in his mismatching of things vnequall : in his abusing our difference of judgement , and reviling off vs : in his perverting the Scriptures , and example of the Martyrs , &c.

The Question between vs , is not as he pretendeth , but thus : First concerning them , Whether the good doctrines of the Church of England being joyned together with theyr Antichristian errors and corruptions , do make theyr Assemblyes and people in that estate to be true Churches and Christians . Then concerning vs , Whether notwithstanding the good doctrines professed in theyr Church , we may and ought to separate from theyr Antichristian Ministery , worship , confusion &c. That thus the question standeth between vs , themselves cannot deny : though they seek to alter and turne from it here and every where . Therefore do we also desier thee ( good Reader ) to mynd it well and not to be carryed away ( with the view of theyr good doctrines alone ) from the question and matter in hand : but alway to have an especiall regard therevnto .

Notwithstanding if the question were as here he pretendeth , perthen both his owne and all Mr Iacobs defence of the Church of England is even thus also quite ouerthrowen . For now it appeareth that both of them do vnderstand theyr Argument following , as if it were thus propounded :

Whatsoever is sufficient to make a particular man a true Christian and in state of salvation : that is sufficient to make a company so gathered together , to be a true Church , Mr Iacobs Argument : as it is now vnderstood by themselves . notwithstanding the multitude of errors and corruptions retayned among them .

But the whole doctrine , as it is publikly professed , and practised by Law in England , is sufficient to make a particular man a true Christian and in state of salvation . viz. such a one as in simplicity of heart beleveth and embraceth it ) : And the publik Assemblyes of England are in theyr estate companyes so gathered together ( that is , they do in simplicity of heart so beleev and embrace ) .

Therefore it is sufficient to make the publik Assemblyes of England true Churches , notwithstanding the multitude of theyr errors and corruptions .

The Argument then being thus propounded , as by this note of his it must needs be , marke ( I pray you ) what followeth herevpon . 1. That as it hath ben propounded hitherto , it concludeth not the Question , but is lame both in the Proposition and Assumption : as I have noted more particularly hereafter . Pag. 4. 10. 12. 13. 93. 97. 99. 106.

2. That in theyr estate we must mynd , not theyr good doctrines alone , but theyr errors and corruptions withall . Of which there is never a word in all theyr Argument . See it , Pag. 3 : 4. 63. 171. 172.

3. That the falsehood both of the Proposition and Assumption is now so manifest , as the very propounding of them thus , is sufficient to refute them . But for this also see further , Pag. 5. 11. 12. 13. Now to speak here but of the latter braunch of the Assumption onely , let them tell vs , iff themselues think theyr Assemblyes and members thereof , do in simplicity of heart beleev and practise the good doctrines of theyr Church . Nay , will they say that the Prelates ( the chief officers and pillars of theyr Church ) do so embrace them ? Not to speak of the many thousands of theyr Church , who do not so much as know the doctrines of truth retayned and 〈◊〉 them . So far are they from professing and practising them in syncerity . And yet are they aswell as the best , members of theyr Church : partakers of theyr Sacraments : Ministers , Governours , copartners , of theyr Worship , Assemblyes , procedings &c.

4. Finally , mynd that the Argument and Replyes following speak of the profession and practise of all theyr Assemblyes and members thereof , as they stand according to Law . Pag. 3.6 . But here he speaketh onely of such among them , as do in simplicity of heart beleev and embrace theyr good doctrines : and therefore neyther of all theyr Assemblyes , nor of all the members of them . See then here how insufficiently they have reasoned , and how deceitfully they have dealt all this while . Besides , the question being of a visible Church , he speaketh onely of such as may belong to the invisible . Which is not to the poynt in controversy . For the profession and practise according to Law ( spoken of in the Argument ) may be knowen and discerned of men : the simplicity of the heart ( here spoken of ) God onely kooweth . Thus with wynding in and out , they have lost both the question : and themselves too ( I feare ) if they returne not in tyme and with simplicity of heart vnto the Lord .

The nature and force of theyr corruptions ( derived from Antichrist the deadly enemy of Iesus Christ ) is purposely handled in the discourse following , in the 1. 2. 3. 6. 7. and 9. Reasons . The Apostle saith , that even * * 1. Tim. 4.1.2.3 . the forbidding of Meats and Mariage , is a departing from the faith . Mr Beza speaking particularly of the Church of England , and but of fower or five off theyr corruptions , viz , plurality of benefices , licences of Non-residency , licences to marry , and to eat flesh , saith that ‡ ‡ Bez. Epist. 8 the Antichristian Church hath not any thing more intolerable , yea that the retayning of these is not a corruption of Christianity , but a manifest defection from Christ . Now if fower or five of theyr corruptions : yea if two of them , be a manifest departing from the faith of Christ : what may we think of theyr whole Hierarchy and multitude of Antichristian abominations retayned among them besides ?

Yet this mans conscience is so feared , as he feareth not to say though they were thrice as many as they are / yet they are not to the purpose for which they are vrged , that is : to convince the Antichristian constitution of theyr Church , and to warrant separation therefrom . Which is as much as if he should say , more plainely , Let the Apostels say of it what they will : and let Christ himself commaund vs never so straitly to separate from such , and to towch no vncleane thing at all : ( 1. Tim. 4.1.2.3 . 2 Thes. 2.3 . Rev. 18.4 . 2 Cor. 6.17 . ) Yet it is to no purpose , if D. B. and Mr Iacob with theyr consorts agree otherwise .

The Anabaptisticall perfection then , whereof he dreameth , he may well apply to himself and his fellowes : who will be perfit and holy in theyr way : if theyr owne faucyes perswade them so : albeit they stand in never so many knowen errors : and those also of Antichrist : yea and peremptorily condemne all such as partake not in theyr sinnes : but separate from theyr Antichristian worship and Ministery / as Christ hath commaunded .

The way and constitution of our Church , is according to the Testament of Christ . Weakly in deed and with much imperfection do we walk therein by reason of sinne that doth so compasse and cleave fast vnto vs . Neyther was there ever in the world any Churches or Christians : whose case was not such . Nor can we ever look for other vpon the earth . Even the Prophets and Apostles have thus acknowledged of themselves . Esa 64.6 , 9. Psal. 19.12.13 . and 103.10 . Iob. 9.30.31 . Hab. 3.1 . Rom. 7.14 . &c. 1 Cor. 13.9.12 . Heb. 12 1. Iam. 3.2 . 1 Pet. 4.17.18 . 1 Ioh. 1.8.9.10 . and 2.1.2 . But should we therefore be perswaded to abide in knowen errors : or to iustify such Churches as stand in the way and constitution of Antichrist ? Common sence might teach to reason otherwise , and to discerne between things that differ so much , as these doe , one from another .

For our difference of judgement in some things , if it were as he saith , yet it would nothing availe them . The * * Act. 11. & 15. and 21. Chap. Rom. 14. ch. 1 Cor. 8. and 10. chap. Phil. 3.15.16 Christians in the Primitive Churches differed in iudgement among themselves in divers waighty things , some concerning Iudaisme : some concerning Paganisme : &c. And synce that tyme : “ “ See the Acts and Mounuents &c. the Martyrs in Queen Maryes dayes and former ages did in sundry things ( and those of great moment , and concerning Antichrists religion ) differ in judgement one from another . Should these therefore have approved and taken part with the Iewish , Heathnish , or Popish Churches in theyr other errors : wherein they did joyntly see and witnesse the truth against them ? Or will he say : there was therefore no equity in theyr dealing : because they did it not ? Or that they were so wholy given and bent theyr wits and mynds so much , to look into the estate of other men and other Churches , and to apply the Scriptures to them : as they seldome or never lookt into theyr owne estate , or applyed the Scriptures to themselues ? Yet thus absurdly and vnconscionably doth this man reason against vs . Off which more hereafter .