A plaine refutation of M. G. Giffardes reprochful booke, intituled a short treatise against the Donatists of England Wherein is discouered the forgery of the whole ministrie, the confusion, false worship, and antichristian disorder of these parish assemblies, called the Church of England. Here also is prefixed a summe of the causes of our seperation ... by Henrie Barrovve. Here is furder annexed a briefe refutation of M. Giff. supposed consimilituda betwixt the Donatists and vs ... by I. Gren. Here are also inserted a fewe obseruations of M. Giff. his cauills about read prayer & deuised leitourgies.

A PLAINE REFVTATION OF Mr. Giffard his reprochful Booke , intituled , a short treatise against the Donatistes of Englande &c.

YOV were before shewed , that we iudged none otherwise & no furder , them th' expresse worde of God teacheth vs to iudge of you . That is , to knowe the tree by the fruicte , and the fruicte by Gods worde . You were there shewed , That we iudged not of Gods secret election which he hath in al places amongst all sortes of men , but of the apparant odious sinnes of your Congregations ; from which whilest you wil not be purged , we may haue no spiritual fellowship or communion with you in this estate . We shewed you , that notwithstanding all your wicked●es , we neuer doubted , but the foundation of God stood firme , the Lord hauing manie thowsandes of his elect amongst you knowen to himself , though not apparant to to our eies , whom he in his good time will call more neare vnto him . And therfore we with extreame longing & loue towardes you , sought & desired your conuertion , that we might see that seale of Gods grace vpon your foreheades , wherwith all that name the name of Christ are sealed , 2 Tim. 2 ● . 9. vzt . To depart from iniquitie . To this end we did , and stil doe reproue in the name of our Lord IESVS CHRIST these heinous transgressions in your publique assemblies , lying in your miserable Prisons , the Lordes witnesses against the same . To this end we exhort al men by al meanes , and admonished you of your present euil estate , as also blamed you for your former vngodlie & false ●urmises , collections & chardges , wresting & deprauing our wordes contrarie to al sense , equitie , and conscience . We hoped that this thus far forth had sufficed , especiallie , seing you rested in silence more then two yeares without anie replie or contradiction : Vntil now at length vpon your submission made ▪ and consultation had with your Ordinarie , you disclosed this Coca●rice egge , which you had so long sit vpon , and all to sprinckled vs with the viperous poyson therof . Terming vs at the first dash Donatists , Brownists , Anabastites , Hereticks , Schismaticks , with infinit reprochfull & horrible adiectiues ioyned to the same , Math. 12. 34. 35. which you haue aboundantly drawen out of the euil treasurie of your owne wicked heart , without cause giuen by vs , or shewed by you . Continuing stil , and more & more abounding in the gall of bitternes , still chardging vs with intollerable pride , presumption , intrusion into Gods iudgement feate , in falselie chardging , accusing , condemning your Christian assemblies , that professe the Gospel &c , notwitstanding al we haue said to cleare our selues of those crimes , and to proue in perticular the thinges we chardged you with ; the truth wherof remaineth now to be skanned . In which blasphemous vayne of wryting you but fulfil the measure of your sinne , and those prophecies you were foretold of . They shall drincke & be moued & be madd &c. They shal gnawe their tongues for grief , and blaspheme the God of Heauen for their paines & for their soares , and not repent of their worckes :

FIRST then to this worde [ Principal ] wherat you so stomble , and from which you draw such heretical conclusions : We giue you to vnderstand , that we vsed yt onely to signifie and expresse vnto you the fowre cheif heades , from whence flowe , and whether may be reduced all these seueral & infinite enormities & abuses , which abounde in your church . As to the nature & qualitie of these 4. how far they extend , let the word of God iudge : Yea let anie by the same worde iudge . 1. Whether such assemblies as were neuer dulie gath●red vnto CHRIST , but all the prophane and open wicked of the land receaued by constrainte into the bodie of your Church as members of the same , immediatlie from open idolatrie and apostasie , without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them to the faith , or anie voluntarie profession made by themselues in perticular of their owne faith ; whether such Congregations as these may in this confusion be held & esteamed the true & rightly planted Churches of CHRIST . 2. Also , let anie by the worde of God iudge , whether those Congregations which haue not that ministerie of the Gospel that CHRIST hath in his Testament instituted to his Church , but haue & retaine an other strange and Antichristian ministerie , euen that the Pope vsed & left in the Land , may be held the true and rightly planted Churches of CHRIST . 3. Moreouer , let anie iudge , whether those Congregations which haue not those orders and gouernement which our Sauiour CHRIST hath ordained and commaunded vnto his Church vnto the worldes end , but ( reiecting that ) haue & retaine an other strange Antichristian gouernment , euen that Antichristian Hierarchie the Pope vsed and left in the Land , may be held the true & rightly established Churches of Christ . 4. Finallie , let anie ( in whom is anie sparke of light ) iudge , Whether those Congregations that retaine & vse an other Leitourgie , that is , an other forme of publique administration and worship then Christs Testament , especiallie such a patched , erroneous , idolatrouse , blasphemouse thing as theirs is , and will not be reformed or withdrawen from the same , may be esteamed the true and rightly established Churches of Christ , such as Christes faithful seruantes may haue communion & fellowship with in their administration of prayers and Sacramen●s . But now where all these faultes concur , and haue not onelie obstinacie , but tyrannie and persecution ioyned to the same , who can doubt of the matter ? Whether also your Churches can remaine in these transgressions , or you maintaine the same , and not depart from the groundes and principles of Christian religion and faith , ( which you boast to keepe ) let anie which is anie thinge exercised in the worde of God , iudge . And thus by these few wordes are not onelie your . 3. ineuitable dangers ( into one of which you would needes shoue vs ) but euen your whole blasphemous Booke , auoyded at once . For whie should we now ether maintaine this heresie . 1. That where the true faith is , ther can breake forth no great faultes , errors , and abuses . Or this absurde maner of speache . 2. That all errors & deformities in Religion , be heresies , blasphemies , and abhominations . Or ells confesse . 3. That with intollerable pride , presumption , and intrusion into Gods iudgment seate , we haue taken vpon vs to iudge and condemne whole assemblies which professe the faith of CHRIST sincearelie in all fundamentall poinctes . For holding that yt cannot be held the true church of CHRIST rightlie planted and established , where the people were receaued into the bodie of the Church before they were dulie caled vnto the faith , or had made profession therof : where they haue not the true ministrie of CHRIST , but a strange antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them : where they haue not the gouernement of CHRIST , but of Antichrist ouer them : where their administration & worship is not after the Gospel of CHRIST , but after their popish idolatrous Leitourgie : Al this may safely be defended , without falling into anie such inconvenience as Mr. Giffard threatneth .

AS to the heresie he speaketh of , we doubt not , nether euer thought , but the best Church that consisteth of mortall men , may fall ether of negligence or of ignorance , into greiuous offences , and dangerous errors : Yea we doubt not but that some famous Churches & Christians may fall into such errors , as he termeth fundamentall ; the holding wherof should vtterly subuert the faith . 1 Cor. 15. As in the Church of Corinth , Galatia , Asia there where that denied the resurrection ; Gal. 3. and 4 Chap. That reuiued the Ceremonial ●awes ; Reuel. 2. 14. 15. That held the doctrines of Balaam and Nicholas . But this we hold withal , that no true Church or Christian will maintaine anie sinne or error , when yt is euidentlie shewed & convinced vnto them by the worde of God , much lesse persecute such as reproue & admonished them , as you doe . Or if they doe , whilest they remaine in that estate , they are not of vs to be held the true Churches of CHRIST .

TO your second chardge we answeare ; That we haue learned to put difference betwixt error & heresie . All good men ( as is said ) doo & may erre , but no good man wil defend , or persist in his error , when yt is shewed and conuinced vnto him . Obstinacie ioyned vnto error , after yt is dulie convinced , maketh heresie . Furder we say , That anie error being obstinatly holden and taught , after it is duelie convinced & reproued vnto him , Titus 3. 10. 11. maketh an hereticke , and heresie in that partie or in that Congregation that so holdeth and teacheth it , and doth separate from the faith & communion of Christ . Ro● . 16. 17. Wherfore we can but wonder at your ignorance , 1 Tim 6. 3. &c. who stand for a Teacher in your church , and yet hold some errors obstinatlie held & taught against the truth of God , Deut. 17. 12. not to be heresies , or ( at the least ) not to be fundamental ; though you see by expresse rule euerie hereticke after one and the second admonition , to be shunned . Yet say we not , that though euerie error thus obstinatlie held , be heresie , and euerie transgression against the lawe , be sinne ; that therfore all sinnes are equal , or all errors of like indignitie . The lawe and iudgments of God teach vs to put difference :

NEther is ther cause whie you should chardge vs or we confesse our selues guiltie of pride , presumption , intrusion into Godes iudgment seat , for condemning those assemblies which the whole worde of God condemneth in all their doings . Greater is your pride , presumption , &c , that in this maner condemne and blaspheme the truth and seruantes of God for reprouing your sinnes , that thus plead for and coulor these filthie abhominations of your Church , which are most odious to euerie good conscience . But this knowe for certaine , howsoeuer the Shipmasters , Reue. 18. Maryners , and Marchantmen of these wares howle and crye out ; howsoeuer the false Prophet labour to gilde and adorne the false Church with the iewells , ornamentes and titles that belong to the true Church ; how much soeuer the Harlot doe glorifie her self , and say in her heart that she sitteth as a Queene , and is no widowe , and shall see no sorrowe ; Yet shal her plagues come in one daye , death , and sorrowe , and famine , and she shal be burnt with fire , because the God that condemneth her is a strong Lorde :

IN that you chardge vs with the breach of the rule Math. 18. vnto you , this still proceedeth of your former vayne conceipt , arrogating vnto your Churches such names , titles , prerogatiues , duties , as belong and are only giuen to the true Churches of CHRIST . Not being able no● endeuouring to approue your Churches by the Testament of Christ , although you were often required and vrged by vs so to doe ▪ wherby all contention should soone haue ceased , you beene cleared & iustified , we iustlie conuict and chardged . In the meane while we affirme vnto you , That these golden rules onlie belong vnto the true Chur●h of CHRIST , Reue. 11. and that the Court without the Temple which is giuen to the Gentiles , is to be cast out , and not to be measured . The Cannons of the POPE which your Church imbraceth , more fitly agree vnto you , then the rules of Christs Gospel , which your Church reiecteth and blasphemeth . But that we maie the sooner see our fault , shew vs we pray you ) how we might execute this rule vnto you , how we might tel yt to your Church , how we might be heard and haue redresse . For if by your Church you meane the Convocation house , you see how they haue often openly reiected this sute : If you meane by your Church the Bishops ( whom you cal the cheif gouernours of your Church ) you see they blaspheme this truth , caling the order of Christs gouernment intollerable , dangerous to the subuertion of Prince & state &c. they hate , persecute , imprison al that speake for , or seek the same . But if nowe you meane by Churches your Parish Churches , alas you see they want power ; they can mend nothing , be yt neuer so heinous or hereticall ; they must receaue what their Lordes the Bisshops impose , and endure til they redresse . How then , to whom , or to what end would you haue vs complaine vnto your Church in this estate ; Or with what equitie and conscience can you thus reuile and condemne vs for breaking Christs order towardes your Church , when you see your Church wil not be subiect vnto Christes order ; but persecuteth vs and al such as reproue their faultes and seek to doo Christes will , because their worckes are euil and wil not endure the light , when they are neuer so litle examined therbye : As shal furder appeare but by a cursorie touching of these principal transgressions following .

THE FIRST PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION WHERWITH YOVR CHVRCHES ARE CHARDGED , IS . THAT they worship GOD after a false maner : Their worship being made of the invention of man , euen of that man of sinne , erroneous , and imposed vpon them :

We leaue your first answeare vnto this Transgression , and our replie vpon your said answeare , to be pervsed and compared by the indifferent Reader , and now addresse our selues vnto this your second defence :

FIrst to make our a●cusation & his answere more cleare , Mr. GIF . translateth our Proposition into a Sylogisme , thus , Whatsoeuer assemblies worship the true GOD after a false maner , their worship being made of the invention of man , euen of the man of sinne &c , the same are not the true Churches of GOD . But th' assemblies as they generallie stand in England doe worship the true GOD after a false maner , their worship being made of the invention of man &c , Therfore the assemblies of England be not the true Churches of GOD . We finde Mr. Giffard so ful of legier du main , that we had neede looke narrowlie to his fingers , lest by his sophistrie & diepe schole learning he beguile vs , as the Serpent by his craftines deceaued Euah , and turne vs not onlie from the true state of our controuersie , but from the simplicitie that in CHRIST . M. Giffard as yt should seeme finding these Propositions ( as they were deliuered him ) al to hard and heauie for him , hath sought to lighten his burden by leauing out such matter & words as pressed him most sore , and then would runne away with the rest as you see . The words he hath left out & ought to haue ioyned to euerie Transgression , are these : willfully obstinate , as appeareth in the verie next words immediatly going before these 4. Propositions . Furder , in repeating & vrdging the Transgression , he hath purposely left out these wordes , and imposed vpon them , and in their places hath set &c. which serueth not the tourne half so wel . These words we can at no hand spare him , and therfore must entreate him to add them to both his first and second Proposition ; which if he doe , he shall then finde the fearful conclusion to followe faster , then he with al his logique can auoide . For if they remaine obstinate and incorrigible , yea incurable in their sinnes , disobedient to the voyce of CHRIST , skorning his reprof , despising his grace , refusing to repent , hauing nether wil nor power to amend , be their sinne as smale in their owne eies as they can imagine , as litle as by their learned distinctions of Fundamental &c. they can anie way make it ; yet it being a transgression of Gods most holie lawe , Hebru. 2. 2 bringeth death ; and being holden after this manner abouesaide , 1 San. 15. 23 bringeth euerlasting death ; and doth in this estate separate them from the loue , fauour , and mercie of God , so far as we can iudge . Ther can be no remission without repentance ; nether can anie be said to repent , Rom. 6. 23 whilest they obstinatlie persist in wilful transgression ; Ezech. 18 nor the Lord in that estate to accept anie offring at their hands , Esai . 57. 21 be their offrings otherwise neuer so perfect and according to the lawe , Prou. 21. 27 as the scriptures plentifullie witnesse . So then , if M. Giffard had taken the matter with him , he should not thus haue altred the whole state of our Proposition , in steade of clearing it ; nether should haue had anie cause thus to chardge yt with heresie after his accustomed maner , or to haue produced his scholastical or ( as he vseth it ) we might more rightlie saye , papistical distinctions of fundamental errors and transgressions : Wherbie what ells should he inferr , or doth he labour to proue , if not , That some errors & sinns are ( as the Papistes saye ) mortal , others not deadlie ? Or ells that which is more grosse , That some error or transgression might be built vpon the foundation . Because some errors and sinnes are of higher nature and offence then other , or because that the best men and Churches may fal into greiuous errors and sinnes ( which as we neuer denied , so we stil to the stopping of our aduersaries vngodlie mouthes , affirme : ) Yet hence it followeth not , that because the best men and Churches that hold the foundation may erre and sinne , therfore anie error or sinne is of the foundation , or is not a transgression from the foundation . Ephe. 2. 20. The written worde of God , deliuered by the Prophets and Apostels is the foundation , 1 Corin. 3. 11 CHRIST IESVS himself being the cheif corner stone . ● Tim. 3. 16 Euerie part of the scripture is a like true , inspired of God , 2 Pet. 1. 19 giuen to our direction and instruction in all thinges . No error or transgression can be ioyned vnto or built vpon this foundation , no more then light & darkenes can be mingled . The least departure from Godes worde is an error ; Mat. 5. 19. the least transgression of Gods lawe is a sinne ; Iam. 2. 10 the rewarde of the least error or sinne is eternal death , if the mercy of God and merites of CHRIST come not betwixt ; which mercy and merites belong not vnto the impenitent and obstinate . 1 Ioh. 1. 6 Therfore they that obstinatlie hold anie error or transgression , and wil not by repentance be purged from the same , lose CHRIST , and so hold not the foundation . Now then seing Mr. Giffard hath a special phantasie to drawe this Transgression more then anie of the .3 . Prinsipal Transgressions following , into forme of argument ( because in his bad conscience he did foresee they would presse too sore ) let the first Proposition be drawen into forme of Argument , thus .

Whatsoeuer assemblies worship GOD & administer according to an idolatrous Leitourgie imposed vpon them , and continue wilfullie obstinate in the said sinnes , are not in that estate to be esteamed or communicated with as the true Churches of God .

But your publique assemblies in England doo worship God and administer according to such an idolatrous Leitourgie imposed vpon them , and continue wilfullie obstinate in the saide sinnes .

Therfore the publique assemblies of England are not in this estate to be held or communicated with as the true Churches of God .

BVt let vs now retorne againe vnto that Argument which you haue taken such paynes to drawe , and to confute in our names . The second or minor Proposition therof you denie . vzt . That the Church of England doth worship God after a false maner , their worship ●eing made of &c. affirming your worship to be the embracing of the holie Bible , and by the doctrine therof &c. Wel let the holie Bible be iudge betwixt vs in al our controuersies ; and let your writing shewe how wel you haue approued your worship in those perticular pointes which were recited & reproued vnto you . But in our iudgment you flee from this issue before you beginne , in that you make so lardge an exception of imperfections , wantes , spots , blemishes , faultes , which destroy not the worship of God ; otherwise ( you saye ) your Church doth worship God aright without heresie , blasphemie , or idolatrie . Nowe surelie this is the odd & onlie exception that euer we heard of . Whie if al imperfections , wantes , spots , blemishes & faultes were taken away , we durst ioyne in the rest of your worship to you or the Pope either : The rest that remaineth must then needes be free and pure from heresie , blasphemie , or idolatrie . It were a wonderful apostasie or heresie , where were no truth , especially when al corruption should be purged away . But if you meane that these faultes thus reproued by vs , and holden by you , doe not corrupt Gods worship amongst you ; for the trial of this , let the nature and qualitye of them be dulie examined by the word of God , and we doubt not but a litle of such leauen shal be fownd to make sowre the whole lumpe : Gal. 5. 9 Yea that these spots and bleamishes you speake of ( being loked in that pure glasse ) wil appeare the olde runing issues , Ec●l. 10. 1 & incurable botches of Egipt , which they haue deriued from their mother of Rome : Euen of those malignant vlcers that are founde vpon the men which haue the marcke of the Beast , Reue. 16. 2 and vpon them which worship his image , for anie defence that you haue or can make for them .

YEt vnto the 4. apparant reasons in our general position of this transgression to proue your worship false and idolatrous , your peremptorie answere is ; That they but make apparant our vanitie and Anabaptistical error . Our vanitie , in that the 3. first 1. of the invention of man , 2. of that man of sinne , 3. erroneous , are al but one . Our Anabaptistical error is in the 4. in these wordes imposed ; wherin we chalendge such a freedome to the Church , as that nothing may be imposed vpon the flockes , that the Church-gouernours shal decree by the worde . The 3. first of these reasons whereby his worship was proued to be idolatrous , he quietlie suffring to passe and carry their conclusion , laboureth to proue al but one . Because saith he , whatsoeuer man inventeth in the worship of GOD is erroneous ; And whatsoeuer is erroneous therin was invented by man ; For al false worship is mans invention , whether it be the invention of the man of sinne or anie other , it is al one before God , who respecteth not persons , but the wickednes of the sinne . Wel , howsoeuer we might insist and shew difference betweene that man of sinne that Antichrist , and others that haue not such cursed marckes vpon them ; howsoeuer also we might shew differences betwixt the deuises of other more godlie men ( which deuises peraduenture in themselues conteine no errors , vntil they be abused , set vp , enioyned and read in the church &c ) and the Popes Portesse , from which execrable plant al these idolatrous graftes are fetched : Yet wil we not stand vpon lighter matters with you contending whether the reasons may be said three or one . It sufficeth vs , and we content our selues to haue proued & obteined , That the worship of your Church is erroneous , yt being made of the invention of man : And your self hath confessed , That whatsoeuer man inventeth in the worship of God , is erroneous . Nowe we may furder conclude from the second Commandment , That whatsoeuer worship is deuised by man , and whatsoeuer deuise of man is put into the worship of God , is idolatrie . But a great part , if not the whole worship of your Church , is deuised by man , euen by the man 〈◊〉 &c. Therfore the worship of your Church is idolatrie . Let y●●r Seruice-booke proue our ●i●or Proposition , or your answers to the perticulars , disproue it . And we in the meane time will procede vnto your answere vnto the .4 . part of our Proposition imposed vpon them . Wherin you chardge vs with this Anabaptisticall error , That we should chalendg such a freedome , as nothing might be imposed vpon the Church which the Church gouernours should decree by the worde . It should seeme certeinly you knowe not what truth or error meaneth : Or ells are so possessed with malice , as you make no conscience what truth you cal heresie , or heresie you cal truth , as appeareth by your vniust chardging of vs , and your vngodlie defending al the abhominations of the tymes . Who but you could drawe this hereticall collection from our wordes ? we in the same sentence , and in the verie next worde immediatlie going before , hauing protested your worship to be erroneous ? How maie it followe , that because we denie errors to be imposed vpon the Church , Therfore we denie that such thinges as the Elders shal determine of by the worde of God , may be imposed vpon the Church ? Whie what the Elders decree by the worde of God , cannot be said to be the invention or the commandement of man , but of God , by whose direction they but pronounce and performe the will of God . But no error can be said to be of the worde of God , and euerie invention of man ( by your owne confession ) is erroneous ; Therfore we may stil & againe here conclude , that seing the worship of your church of England is made of the invention of man , euen of the man of sinne , erroneous , and imposed vpon them , yt is false & idolatrous , and such as no true Elders may impose , or the true Church of Christ receaue . Furder we say , that no true Elders of the Church , nor the whole Church yt self may decree or impose anie thing by way of lawe , which Christ hath not decreed & imposed in his worde . And if you hold otherwise ( as your popish phrases Decree , impose vpon the flockes seeme to import ) then we affirme , that you both hold a Papistical & Anabaptistical error , and vtterlie not onlie corrupt the worship & gouernment of Christ , but bring in a new worship & gouernment by bringing in & setting vp your owne decrees & deuises as the Papistes & Anabaptistes doe .

NOw commeth their Leitourgie or Seruice-Booke which containeth the publique worship & administration of their Church , to be examined by the word of God . The defence wherof Mr. GIFFARD though he be a sworne Priest after & vnto the orders therof , yet he verie loathlie and doubtfullie vndertaketh at the first entrance , as one that carieth a witnesse and a iudge , that could tell an other tale in his owne conscience . He confesseth that as no mans workes are per●ect , so there are manie and great faultes in this Booke , though ( as yt should seeme ) none of those perticulars which we recited vnto him ( onlie the baptisme by weomen excepted ) seing the laboureth to defend all the rest . But we which for some errors and spots hould it to be an idolatrous booke , and the worship therof idolatrie , fal into that foule and detestable heresie of perfection ? And in that we affirme yt to be a pregnant Idoll , ful of errours , blasphemies , and abhominations , we doe falslie accuse , and impudentlie sclander . These great wordes nether convince vs , nor cleare you ; let them therfore remaine vpon your accompt . The truth of our chardges , and the qualitie of your transgressions , shall by and by appeare by the discussing the perticulars . And for all your greate threates of heresie , we still for the faultes we haue alleadged ( though there were no more , ( as by your owne confession ther are both manie more and greater ) dare affirme your worship to be false , idolatrous , and abhominable . The worde of God caleth him an heretick that obstinatelie holdeth anie one error after due conviction , though be hold much truth besides . There is no heretick that doth not hold some , yea much truth . The word of God pronounceth them idolatours , that obstinately contynue in anie idolatrous and false worship , though they doe manie other things according to the rules of the worde ; ells were not the Papistes to be iudged Idolatours or Heretickes . Shall all they now that iudge according to the worde of God , be guiltie of that detestable heresie of perfection ? What is this but to accuse God of heresie , whose iudgments these are ? Because we cannot be perfect here , therfore we ought not to contend towards perfection , by leauing that which is euill , Rom. 12. 9 , as yt is shewed vnto vs , and endeuouring to do that which is good ? Might not the Masse-booke , and the most vile heresies be thus defended and iustified ; Because they are not perfect , therfore they not euill ? Because they cannot be perfect , therfore they will leaue none euil ? This is Mr. GIFFARDS best diuinitie he hath , to defend the worship of his Church : But let vs nowe come to the perticular defaults in their worship by vs obiected , and by him defended .

Mr. GIFFARD being demanded where he founde in the new Testament the Romish Fastes of his Church , As their Embers , Sainctes Eaues , and Lent ; first confesseth , that in the whole Bible he can find no warrant for anie Romish fastes . But afterwardes ( lest he should be vnlike himself ) sayth , that we iniuriouslie sclander and belye their Church in matching them with the blasphemouse Synagogue of ROME : Seing they place not in abstinence from meates ether the worship of God , remission of sinnes , nor merite : Seing they condemne the doctrine of Deuils &c. Whie should we by his rayling and subtile cauils be withdrawen from our present question , which because he dare not answere , and cannot approue his Embers , Sainctes Eaues , and Lent Fastes by scripture , he seeketh to turne away , and to cauile about other doctrines , as the putting holines , merit &c , in the abstinence and the restraint of meates , wherwith he was not chardged by vs ; yet wherof happelie ( if he were narrowlie sought and followed ) he could not so wel cleare his Church , as he supposeth . We onlie made question of thinges done , and of the present practise of their Church ▪ Namelie , how he could approue their Embers , Sainctes Eaues , and Lents , which we caled Romish fastes , by the worde of God ; At which wordes he picketh a quarrle , that he might not be vrged to proue his Embers , Sainctes Eaues , Len● fastes by the Scripture . But let him cauil as much as he list at this worde Romish ; Whersoeuer and whensoeuer they were invented , yt is certaine they were brought into and left in the Church by the POPE , and are stil vsed ( though not altogether after so idolatrous a maner ) at the same holie tides as they were and are in the Romish Church ; and therfore are still to be caled vpon his , name , what Prince soeuer after commaund them , or what Church soeuer vse them . And euill prouide they for their Princes honor , that make her the author of such abhominable idolatrous stuffe , as these Romish fastes , your Embers , Sainctes Eaues , Lents are , which he can no way colour or excuse by anie politicke lawes , or transfer the blame from their Church therbie . No politick lawes can make that lawfull , which the word of God condemneth . No politick lawes can excuse the Church from breaking the Commandements of God . Nether may these fastes be esteemed ciuill actions , because the Princes lawe commandeth them : For so might all their worship of God be held ciuill actions , because the Princes lawes in like maner commandeth them . But these fastes are commanded and solemnly proclaimed in their Church and that by the Priest , as he is directed by his Rubrick , orderly as they arise in their Calendare . The people are sommoned to the Sinagogue vnto publique prayer , al commanded to fast &c : shall we call this a ciuile action ? Nay sure yt must be as much and as well ecclesiasticall as anie other part of the worship and administration of your Church . Well , and besides that you haue receaued and deriued these fastes from the Church of ROME , let your special Collects , vpon your Sainctes Eaues , your bitter commination and special communion vpon your Ash wednesday , with your Epistle out of Ioel 2. 12. Tourne you vnto me with all your heartes , with fasting , weeping , and mourning &c , your Gospell out of Matthew 6. 16. When you fast be not sad as the Hipocrites &c ▪ Likewise your Collect and Gospell vpon the first Sundaye of your Lent , making mention of CHRISTS 40. dayes fast in the wildernes , desiring that your 40. dayes fast may subdue the flesh &c. Let this your apish , or rather popish counterfeighting . Let your special communions in your Passion weeke , your Maundy Thurs-daye , your Good friday &c , shewe how popishlie you keepe these your fastes . Furder , let your generall inhibition of flesh and of mariage at these Pope-holie tides , and your Bisshops speciall dispensation for both , by their licences for money , shew , how popishlie your Church of England keepeth these idolatrous execrable fastes ; and whether herein your Church maintayneth not the doctrines of Deuills . To conclude , let anie man by the Testament of CHRIST iudge , whether these annuarie prescribed fastes by waye of lawe vnto all Congregations from yeare to yeare , at set tymes and ceasons , without anie present occasion so vrging , be anie thing like those holie Christian fastes which the primatiue Churches vsed , ether according to their general or perticular occasions :

NExt ensue your idoll feastes , your Al-Hallowes , Candlemas , seueral Ladie daies , Sainctes daies , and dedicating your Churches vnto Sainctes . Here you say we thunder out terror , as if the Church of England did worship Idolles and celebrate feastes in the honor of false Gods : and yet all is but a starck lye , and a wicked sclaunder . Here your euill conscience fearing the blowe before yt come , can prouide no warde but your accustomed rayling , which is the way to make it more heauie & soare . If you had according to our requestes approued your feastes & holie dayes of your Church &c , by the Testament of Christ , we had yeilded thervnto ; or howsoeuer , you had therby beene freed from these feares & iudgments that pursue your euill conscience . Then had you not vpon this occasion needed or vsed these vayne protestations , how you hold but one only God , and one Mediator betweene God & man , the man Iesus Christ , That God onely is to be worshipped through the mediation of Christ , That Sainctes are not to be worshipped , no dayes to be celebrated in their honor , nor Churches dedicated vnto them : How bitterlie then do you sclander ? That you keep no such Feastes , dedicate Eaues , Daies , and Churches in their name , you can with no shame denie ; for the present practize of your church through euerie moneth in the yeare , sheweth this true . Onely nowe yt remayneth in question , whether these Feastes &c , be consonant to Christes Testament , or idolatrous . And you being requested , ought to haue prooued this keeping these Feastes , these holie Cessations by way of lawe , this dedicating Eaues , Dayes and Churches in Sainctes names , by the euident testimonie of Gods word , before you had thus reuiled vs . But surelie as you are more than loath to be drawen to the triall & proofe of this stuffe , so take we no delight to rake in this most noysome dounge of your solemne Feastes & vaine worship , Math. 15. 8. which you ( as sweete odoures ) offer vp vnto God in the name & mediation of his Sonne Christ Iesus . What wil you answeare vnto God ( though you wil vouchsalf vs none answeare ) when he shall aske you who hath required these thinges at your handes ? What will you then pleade for your Iewish feastes of E●ster & P●nticoste ? Gala. 4. 9. If you saye you keep them not after the maner of the Iewes , yet can you not be said to keep them according to Christes Testament ; for there you haue no warrant for such feastes . What wil you pleade for your popish feastes of Christmass , Al-Hallowes , Candlemass , &c. For your diuiding and deuising Christs life into a stage-playe , celebrating his birth vpon one daye , his Circumcision vpon an other , his Epiphanie ( as you cal yt ) vpon an other &c , yea anie of these vpon one special daye more then an other ? But where haue you learned to keepe them after your heathen and prophane maner , with garnishing your earthlie houses , decking your bodies with gaye clothes , great cheare in glottonie , excesse , ryot , idle games , dicing , daunsing , mumming , masking , wassaling ; what president can you shew of such worshipping and feasting , except it be that holie daye which the Israelites kept before the Calf vnto the Lorde in the wildernes Exod. 32. 5. 6. where haue you thus learned CHRIST ? Is this to keepe the feaste with the vnleauened breade of sinceritie and truth ? to crucifie the old man ? to be planted to the similitude of his death & of his resurrection & c ? What can you there pleade for your superstitious deuotions towards your Ladie , keeping a Daye , an Eaue , a Fast , a Feast , a cessation from al labours , an especial worship to her Annunciation , an other to her Purification yeerly in your Church ? It were good you would consider of these things what you can answeare : for certis we poore ignorant Christians can see no other mystery in the matter , but that yt is detestable idolatrye , euen that verie powring out your drinck offringes and burning incense to the Queene of heauen . Iere. 44. Furder what wil you then say to your celebration of deade Saincts , keeping one solemne daye vnto them al at once ? And againe seuerallie to Iohn Baptist , and to the Apostles as they are allotted in their Pageant : George also your St. Patron must not be forgotten : A daye also is kept to the martyre Stephen , an other daye to the Innocents , with their daye , eaue , fast , feast , cessa●ion , special worship to euerie one perticularlie . What warrant can you shew for this out of the Bible ? The Patriarcks , Prophets , godly Kings were neuer so celebrated● neither haue you anie commandement or president in al the newe Testament thus to celebrate them . Paule & Peter whilest they were aliue desired to be remembred and prayed for of the Church , but neuer required anie such dutie being deade . Furder , what wil you answeare for your keping a daye , cessation &c to St. Michael & al Angells ? how wil you excuse your self of most high idolatrie , Collos. 2. 18. 19. advancing your self in thinges you neuer sawe , rashlie puffed vp of your fleshlie minde , and not holding the heade , depriuing others of their Crowne ? It wil not then stand , to saye , you worship the Lorde by these deuises ; for so said your Fathers in the wildernes . Exod. 32. 5 . To morrow the holy day of the Lorde . The Lorde he wil be worshipped according to his owne wil reuealed to vs in his worde ; and not by our deuises , how holie soeuer they seeme . If then God be not worshipped with this kinde of worship , their Idolls are ; or ( to speake rather as the Prophets and the Apostles doe ) the deuil is worshipped therbie . Leuit. 17. 7. De●t. 32. 17. 2 Chronicles . 11. 15. 1 Corint . 10. 20. And thus your owne conclusion which you tooke so heynously , falleth apace vpon you ; and you haue not brought one reason to saue or cleare your self . As to your doctrines by you verballie alleadged concerning God and his worship , the idolatrous Israelites and Iewes in their greatest schisme & diepest apostasy could haue alleadged manie true doctrines also . But nothing is more sure then this ; Christ is not a Priest for such sacrifices as his Eather is not pleased with . Nether is he a Mediator of anie other Testament then his owne . As to the Dedication of your Churches vnto deade Sainctes , and the caling them by their owne names , the first you say was the fault of the Papistes , but you in caling them after the same names doe not sinne . Was it a fault in your predecessors so to dedicate & cal them , and shall it be no fault in you so to cal them as they had dedicated & left them vnto you ? But you so cal them only to distinguish them . Whie this excuse they also had . But they had furder superstition in these places and Sainctes . And doe not you nourish the same superstition in the weake , and animate the Papistes in their sinnes , by ratifying these their doings and calling your Churches by the same names they baptized them in ? But might we aske you where you thus learned to cal & distinguish christian Congregations in the Scriptures ? your answeare & place is readie , Luke . Acts. 17. caleth a streate in Athens , Mars streate , and aske vs if he therfore dedicated it to that heath● God . We answere you , that if Luke should so giue the name & cal it speaking in his owne person for himself , he should sinne & commit idolatrie , in naming the Creature of God after an Idol , as you do in caling the Da●es & your Churches after the names of such Sainctes . Psal. 16. 4. Dauid saith he wil not take the names of their Idolls in his lippes . But Luke here recordeth the historie of such thinges as came vnto PAVLE in Athens , and the vulgar name of the place whether the Athenian Philosophers ledd Paule , naming yt after their maner not that himself so caled yt willingly , or to giue vs boldnes to do the like , but rather to manifest their fault & superstitious feare they stoode in of their Idolls as Paule verse ▪ 22. sheweth , by the reproofe of their fault , teaching vs to auoyde the like . And can you collect that because Luke writeth that they of Athens named a streate after Mars , they of Alexandria signed a ship vnto Castor & Pollu● , that christians may by those places name or cal anie thing in their possession after Idolls or deade Sainctes ? Is this the best doctrine you can drawe , & vse you can make of this Scripture ? yet is it the only place of Scripture you haue vsed to approue any part of your publique worship , which we had blamed vnto you . We wil not stand to vrge the Poperie & superstition of some of the Sainctes names of your Churches , how some of them are caled after Christs sepulchre , others after al the rable of Sainctes both men & weomen , Sainctes in the POPES Calendare ; but proceade to the rest of your tromperie .

AS your Co●●inations , Rogations , Purifi●ations . Your Comminations you saye are a part of Canonicall Scripture , which is to be read in the Church Partes of Canonicall Scripture , indeed they are , by you miserably dismembred & bownd vp together , and wickedly vsed and peruerted to such superstition & idolatrie , being vsed in the place & vpon the daye of popish shrift : Or rather ( as your Portesse saith ) in the place of the Discipline of the church , and of the Penance , vsed in the beginning of Lent . Thus in the best vse of it by your owne confession yt is an execrable Idoll , in that it is brought into your Church , and supplieth the place of Christes discipline in his Church , and is vsed in stead therof vntill Christes discipline may be restored againe ( which you there say is much to be wished ) yt being nothing lesse then that which it standeth for by your owne confessions in the preample before your Comminations : ●●●har . 11. Yt remayneth then the instrument of those Idoll shepheardes to feede the sheep of distruction with the curse of God , being sealed vnto your whole Church by your owne mouthes , All your Church being generallye founde , and wilfullie remayning guiltie in som sinnes there condempned : As these publique idolatries , others , and each one in sundrie perticulars : as deceipt , wronge , whoredome &c. We wil not here stand to discusse the follye & Poperie of this solemne peice of your worship and administration . Penance & your Lent fast are grosse to euerie one , in whom is anie light .

YOur Rogations you say are but limiting the boundes of euerie Parish , to auoyde contention . But we would then knowe of you how it became an act of your Church , a part of your Pastors office , to be donne by the Parson and the parrish Clarcke with the rest of the parishners , certaine Psalmes the Letanie & Collects being said ouer the Grasse , Corne , and Cattayle , in place of the popish procession . Yea there are of your Priestes that wil not faile to reade a Gospel when they come at a crosse way orderly . This is somewhat more than visiting the bowndes . Nether euer thought we that such ciuile actions had belonged to the Church & Ministrie . Luk. 12. 14 Christ would not be made a diuider here on earth , there are Ciuile iudgment seates appoincted therunto . And howsoeuer this publique sollemne worship be commaunded by other iniunctions of your Church , and not by your seruice-booke , yet according to that booke is this solemne action performed .

PVrifications you say are annexed to make vp our ryming figure : For nether your Booke nor doctrine of your Church alloweth anie other purification , then in the bloude of the Lambe &c. nether yet did the Iewes ( from whom the Pope ( as yt should seeme ) deriued this worship ) hold anie other purification than in the bloude of that Lambe , although they figured that bloude by sundrie rites & ceremonies , of which sort this maner of bringing weomen to the Priest in the Church after child-birth , and a certaine nomber of dayes expired , was . Yet seeing you wil at no hand be said to imitate the Iewes herein , you must then take it from the Pope of necessitie , for other au●thor you can finde none for yt , nether anie president or warrant in the Testament of Christ : The woemans monethlie restraint and seperation from your Church , her comming after that iust tyme wympeled , vealed , with her Gosips & Neighbours following her , her kneeling downe before and offring vnto the Priest , The Priestes Churching , praying ouer her , blessing her from Sonne and Moone , deliuering her in the end to her former vocation , shewe somewhat besides giuing of thankes . But if yt should be admitted only a thanksgiuing , We would then knowe of Mr. Giffard or his Ordinarie , how this perticular & ordinarie ( though miraculous ) matter , more than al other strange actes , wonderful and extraordinarie deliuerances both by sea and by land , manie and great benefites of the Lord both to men and woemen , should be made a publique action of the Church , an especial part of the publique worship and administration therof ; And what warrant they haue in Christes Testament for this . But if they there haue none , whie other perticular and priuate benefites may not aswel be brought into the Church also , and be enioyned by lawe , as this ; and then what end would there be of these deuises , and what place to the publique ministrie of Gods worde in the Church ? Furder we would knowe of them whie these woemen should by lawe be constrained to defer their thanks-giuing vntil the moneth be expired , Or if they haue giuen God thankes before priuatly , whie they should for his priuate & peculiar benefite be compelled to giue thankes publiquely againe for the same , or rather to hire the Priest to giue thanks for her againe . Of these pointes touching this matter , we would craue Mr. Giffards learned and direct answeare in his nextbooke .

NExt come your Tithes , Offringes , Mortuaries . These you saye are but for maintenance of your Ministrie , and not as a matter tyed of necessitie vnto a Priesthode , as in the time of the lawe ; and if they were , the error were not fundamental . We neuer doubted but that they were the maintenance of your Ministrie ; but whether the Ministrie of Christ nowe vnder the Gospell may be so maintayned , is the question . We reade in the Testament , that the Ministrie of the Gospel ought to be maintayned by the flockes vnto which they attend , 1 Cor. 9. and that by the free & louing contribution of the faithful , Gal. 6. 6 according to the Ministers necessitie , & the peoples habilitye from time to time . 1 Tim. 6. 8 We reade not in the Testament that this contribution ought to be imposed by waye of 1. lawe , Mat. 10. or 2. bargaine vpon the people ; 2 Cor. 11. 20 As by paying tenthes , thirdes , 40. or 50. pownds a yeare . 1 Thes. 2. 5 We finde not in the Testament that the Ministers of CHRIST ought to sel their administration , 2 Pet. 2. 15 as the Sacraments &c. ●●d . 11. 12. 13 Nowe let the Tithes , Offrings , set wages of your Ministrie ( we meane the inferior common ministrie of Parsons , Vickars , roving Curates , or hireling Preachers , and not of the Lordlie sort which liue as Princes in Pallaces , nor of your Collegiate Priests in their dennes ) be examined by these rules , and tryed , whether they haue anie foundation in the worde of God or no. As to their accursed couetousnes & odious port-sale not onlie of their owne tougues , but of that Gospel & ministration ( which they pretend ) of your Sacraments , Baptisme , Supper , Ch●rching , Marrijng , Burijng &c. and that to the most prophane and vngodlie for their tithes , offrings , wage &c , Mr. Giffard shal neuer be able to hide from God , or excuse before men . It would require a lardge discourse to set downe how these their tithes accord in euerie perticular vnto the Leuitical decimations ; N●m . 18 And how dangerous nowe it were to reviue , and vnpossible to ioyne these lawes vnto CHRISTES Ministrie and Gospel . If that priesthode be remoued , Hebr. 7. 12 there must be of necessitie a removing of the lawe . They that reviue anie part of the Ceremonial lawe , Gal. 5. 3. 4 are bownde to the whole lawe , Phil. 3. 2 and abolished from CHRIST . Let Mr. Giffard then looke whether this error be fundamental as he caleth yt , being obstinatelie held . The Princes commandement wil no more change the nature of this lawe , then the commandement of Ezekia and other godlie Kings did before tyme , For so might al the lawes of God which Princes should commande be transferred from God to men . If it be said they vse these Tithes &c otherwise , so also might the Galatians and Corinthians haue said of such Seremonies as they would haue ioyned to the Gospel .

NOwe are we to take a viewe of your maner of visiting the sicke & hous●ling them with the Sacrament . Your Absolution , Dirges , and funeral Sermons ouer & for the deade . You confesse a maner of visiting the sicke prescribed , but you demande of vs where we haue seene it practized by , or vrged at their handes which are able and diligent Pastors , by these that haue the gouernment of your Church . Wee answeare , that it sufficeth to be commanded and prescribed by your seruice-booke vnto all your Ministers and Churches , to the diligent obseruation wherof all ful Priestes are sworne . Furder your Church-Wardens & Sidemen are sworne to present all defaultes therin at the Arch-Deacons or Commissaries Courtes . So that no marueyle though this booke be founde in the handes of the most diligent & able Priestes , reading yt ouer weomen at their Churching , ouer the maried , ouer the sicke , ouer the deade , and where not . And for Mr. Giffards satisfying , we giue him to weite , that as learned Priestes as he , haue vsed this booke to the visitation of the sicke . And nowe we would knowe of him whie these able Priestes should haue more libertie to pray by the the direction of the spirit for and with the sick , according to their present estate , them they are allowed by those that ha●e the gouernment of your Church in the publique praiers of the whole Church , according to the present estate therof . To conclude , we would knowe of him by what warrant in Gods worde the Church can prescribe & enioyne such a forme of visiting &c.

As to their Absolution which Mr. Giffard so slilye would passe ouer without speakinh anie worde therof , Let the Reader vnderstand that nothing can be more popish or blasphemous then yt is : where a sacrilegious Priest taketh vpon him by the authoritie committed vnto him , to absolue the sicke from all his sinnes . Hath anie mortal man power to forgiue sinnes ? Or is it not the office of God alone ? Hath the Priest power to forgiue al sinnes , such as are not made vnto him ? What horrible blasphemie is this ? To him that hath power to forgiue all sinnes , to him we may make our prayers and supplications , him only may we worship . Hath the greatest Minister of the Church any more power to retaine or loose the sinne of the least member , then the said member hath to bind or loose his sinne ▪ Doth not this rule of our Sauiour aswel extend vnto him as to the least in the Church , Luk. 17. 3. If thie brother sinne against thee rebuke him , and if he repent forgiue him ? Rom. 16. 17. Hath not the Church power to reproue and cast out their Pastor if he so deserue ? 1 Tim. 5. 20 Is not al this binding & loosing donne by the worde of God , Psal. 149. and not by anie power or excellencye of man ? Hath not the worde of God the like power and effect against sinne in the mouth of the least of Gods seruants , as in the mouth of the greatest ? Let this Collect then ( wherbie the Priest in their Leitourgie by the power committed vnto him absolueth the sick of al his sinnes ) remaine one witnesse ( amongst manie other ) of their Poperie , and vntil more come , of most high blasphemie .

Mr. GIFFARD taketh verie heinouslie at our handes this phrase of hous●ing , with the Sacrament terming yt a false packing in vs , and goeth about to purge his Church therof , by shewing how yt denieth al the wicked blasphemous corrupt doctrines of the Papists touching the Lordes Supper : And also denieth , that a man is of necessitie to receaue yt at his death . Thus euer with his impertinent matters he with-draweth and shrinketh from the present question . We must therfore still call him backe to the poynte , and demaund of him what warrant in CHRISTS Testament their Church hath to institute a priuate Communion , or to administer the Supper of the Lord in anie other place than where the church is assembled . This if he can doe , then indeed we haue faulted in caling yt an Housel . 1 Cor. 11. 20 But if he can shewe no warrant for this priuate domestical Communion , then we must still blame this action as popish , superstitious , and irregular , what doctrines soeuer they hold of the Lordes Supper besides . Againe , though they exhort and perswade the sick person that this Sacrament is not then of necessitie ; Yet if he be so superstitious to require it , the Priest then is bownde of necessitie to deliuer yt him , though there be no more to receaue then they two . And what is this but to nourish superstition , or to make the Sacrament so deliuered of great value & proffit vnto them . Thus iugleth & toyeth your Church with the holy things of God at her pleasure :

THe Papistes you say that invented the Purgatorie , had also their blasphemous diriges & prayers for the deade : But we are more then impudent in lying , to terme the prayers which you vse at burials , such : seing your Church denieth the Purga●orie , prayers for the dead &c. We will not requite you with euil wordes , but let the proofe of these matters declare who is a lyer and impudent . We would therfore first knowe of you where you haue learned to make the burial of your deade an ecclesiasticall action , part of the Pastors office , and to make it an especial part of your worship , if not of the POPE ? Then where you learned to burie in your Hallowed Churches and Church-yardes ( as though you had not fieldes and grounde to bury in ) with a special Dirige and leitourgie , with praiers , Singers , Ringers , Mourners , Beades-men &c , if not of the POPE ? It were too longe to shewe the originall and processe of this superstition , with the great aduantage that commeth to the Priestes therbie . It were needles also to shewe , howe this your Leitourgie , Dirige and prayers , are fetched and peiced out of the POPES Portesse . It were curious to relate the watching , preparing , arraying , crossing , dressing the corps to the graue , also the array of the Mourners with all the superstition of the Heraldes , the attyre of the Priestes and Clarckes , with their tymes and place when and where to receaue , when to rest , when to singe , to reade , to praye , when and with what wordes to cast on the first shouel of earth by the hand of the Priest , the graue being made easte and west &c. Onely this in general we say , that all these deuises ( seing God no where commandeth them in his worde ) are vayne , superstitious , and fond , as whereby Gods name is highly taken in vayne , prophaned , and abused ; yea his holy spirit most impiouslie blasphemed & despighted . For whilest the whole land is of their Church , and they bury all that dye in their Church of their natural death after this maner with this Leitourgie ( but such as dye of any violent death , how christianly soeuer , they vouchsalf not thus to burye ) pronouncing in the Collect they vse whilest earth is casting on , that God in his mercy hath taken to himself the Soule of that their deare Brother or Sister departed , they therbie iustifie the most wicked , gracelesse , impenitent wretches , Atheistes , blasphemers , Idolarours , Papists , Anabaptists , Heretickes , Coniurers that dye in their sinnes , as though such could haue anie benefite by the death of CHRIST , or the mercy of God belonged vnto such as dye in their sinnes impenitent , except peraduenture the Priestes prayers nowe , the holines of the grownd , and this christen buryal &c , may helpe him ; thus openl●e contradicting th' expresse word of God , and hardening all the rest of your prophane Atheists , Idolators , whore-masters , blasphemers in their sinnes . Likewise in an other Collect , where they desire God , that they with that their departed brother may haue a perfect consummation & blisse both in bodie & soule , what do they but pray for the Soule of the deade , seing they burye all with this Collect , and some must needes dye apparantly wicked , and impenitent . Yea what doe they hereby but establish a Purgatory , or some such meane place , for in ▪ Hel there is no redemption . Thus whither doth not man wander whilest he followeth his owne inventions , and forsaketh the straight pathes of the Lorde .

AS to their venal funerall Sermons , they haue as litle grownde or warrant in the Scriptures , as their Dirige and funeral Collects haue . Wel may they deriue them from the funeral Orations of the Heathen Orators , but no president they haue of the godlie in anie age so to bury their deade . We reade of no such matter at anie of the Patriarches , Prophets , or godlie Kinges burial . No nor at the burial of our Sauiour CHRIST , of the Martyre Stephen , of the Apostle Iames , or anie of the faithful in those tymes ; yet were there as godlie , religious , learned , and able men to doe yt then aliue & remayning , as they that thinck the best of themselues nowe , if the holy Ghost had seene it so needful .

NExt fellowe your corrupt maner of administring the Sacraments , the Font , the Crosse in baptisme , your Gossips , and blasphemous Collects vsed to this Sacrament , your Baptisme by weomen , Bishoping , with other heretical Collects of this booke &c. when we shew ( you say ) whie the Fonte is an abhomination , you shal knowe what to say . How idolatrously the Font was invented , brought into the church , hallowed , & the POPE , is euident to all men . Whether they fetched this from the Iewes Lauar , Sea , or Base , we will not here dispute . Sufficeth it vs that yt ys an idolatrous , popish , enchaunted , hallowed relique , wherin they put & kept their enchaunted hallowed water , and vsed yt to manie execrable idolatries . Deut. 7. Therfore yt is an abhomination to the Lord , a detestable Idoll that ought to be vtterly abolished by the lawe of God , and ought not to be vsed in his Church and worship . 2 king . 18. 4 Furder seing yt nourisheth the Papists , Rom. 14. the weake and ignorant in their fore-conceaued superstition , 1 Cor. 8. and is an offence vnto the godly , if yt were a thing in libertie , yet ought is not to be thus vsed , much lesse thus enioyned & retayned by vertue of lawe vpon all Congregations . And seing in the best imagination of yt , it is not an instrument of anie more necessitie or vse v●to this Sacrament then anie other cleane and decent vessel , seing also our Sauiour CHRIST hath not separated anie vessel or water to this vse ; 1 Cor. 6. 12. We cannot see how a fewe men may be thus bold to command this vessel vpon all Churches by waye of lawe , and to forbid all other vnto this vse . For what is this but to restraine that which God hath left in libertie , to controle God , Gal. 5. 1. and to make newe lawes for his Church . And whie might they not by the same vsurped power bring in what vnnecessarie Ceremonies they list , euen al their fore-Fathers the Iewes & Popes infinite traditions , aswel as these popish deuises & Iewish ordinances aboue-said ; aswel as these popish idolatrous reliques of Fonte , Bells , Organs , Musick , Surplices , Coapes , Vestimentes , Habites , Hoodes , Cappes , Tippetts , Tires &c.

BVt if these least litle thinges , which they call matters indifferent , wherein al men ought to obey , proue so heynous in Gods eyes , so pernitious to the whole Church , what shal we thinck of their Simbolical Ceremonies , tryflings , iocolings that they haue added to their Sacracraments ? As vnto their Baptisme a Dialogue betwixt the Priest , the Clarcke , the God-fathers , God-mothers , and the Infant ; the signe of the Crosse , the sanctifying or making holie their water &c. Their fowre sortes of Baptismes . Namely , 1. Their publique Baptisme by the Priest &c. 2. Their hastie Baptisme by weomen . 3. Their Baptisme by supposition . N. if thou be not baptised I baptize thee &c. 4. And their Lorde the Bishop his Baptisme , or Confirmation of CHRISTS baptisme . Likewise in their Sacrament of the Supper their friuolous Leitourgie stinting the Priest when and how to stand at the North end of the Table , what and when to saye and praye , when to kneele , when to tourne , when to glory God &c. Also the vayne Dialogue betwixt the Priest , Clarcke , and People . Their altering the wordes of CHRISTS institution , and deliuering yt after a popish maner . The bodie of our Lord IESVS CHRIST which was giuen for thee preserue thie Bodie and Soule vnto euerlasting Life &c , and that kneeling , that they might adore the bread , or at least retaine a taste of their former superstition in tyme of high poperie &c. Of this Sacrament they haue also diuers kindes , with diuers Leitourgies . As publique , or ordinarie ; Sollemne , vpon certaine of their Festiuals ; And priuate , or domestical . Not here to speake of their other half Sacraments , As their Penance or Commination vpon Ash-wednesday , with their special Leitourgie therevnto . Their Sollemnization of Mariage in the bodie of their Church vpon the Lordes daye or otherwise by the Priest , with his booke and special Leitourgie , with a Ring ( as the element ) to be laid ▪ vpon the Seruice-booke , which doth hallowe yt in steade of holie Water : with which ring the man must be taught of the Priest to wedd his wief &c , And the marryed offer vnto the Priest and Clarck .

TOuching the Crosse , Mr. Giffard confesseth yt to be most blasphemously and horribly abused in Poperye , they ascribing vnto yt power to driue out deuils , and worshipping yt with deuine honor . We looked that after his accustomed maner he should haue said , But our Church doth not so thinck of or worship the Crosse , Therfore you Brownists most impudent lye sclander &c. But in steade of this he saith neuer a worde to the mattter in perticular : Saue vnto Symbolical ceremonies in general he is of iudgment , That the antient Churches immediatlie after th' apostles tyme did offend , in taking ouer much libertie to ordeine ceremonies Symbolical : Yet he doubteth not , but verie reuerend godlie learned men , ledd by th' example of those holye Fathers , haue iudged it lawful for the Churches to ordeyne such Ceremonies . We would first therfore knowe of those reuerend godlie learned , and not of Mr. Giffard whie they ( nowe that al are Christian and no heathen amongst them ) retaine & enioyne this superstitious signe of the crosse in th' administration of their baptisme . Also whether they are not persuaded , That our Sauiour Christes institution which the Apostles taught and deliuered vnto the Churches touching th' administration of the Sacraments , was perfect and fullie sufficient . Yf they so thincke of yt , Whether they iudge it lawful for anie mortal men , or the whole Church , willingly & wittingly to alter or add anie thing to , or plucke anie thing from the said institution of our Sauiour in the Sacraments : Or if they so add , Whether our Sauiour doth accept and blesse yt , as his owne institution . And if God doe not accept or blesse such Sacraments , where his institution is thus wilfullie violated and changed , Howe such ●dulterate Sacraments may be said the true seales of Gods Couenant ; especiallie where such a blasphemous horrible , popish , idolatrous ceremonie is vsed , as Mr. Giffard confesseth this signe of the crosse to be , except yt be better with them then it was with the Papistes : Or howe may the faithful in this estate ioyne vnto them . And nowe yt would be knowen of Mr. Giffard ( seing he in his owne iudgment condemneth these Symbolical Seremonies ) howe he dare thus presumtuously breake CHRISTES institution in deliuering them after the maner prescribed , and ioyne vnto those men that enioyne those ceremonies , against such of CHRISTES faithful seruants as reproue them , stand , and suffer againgst them . Is not this most fearefully and presumptuously to tempt God , to sinne against his owne conscience ? It is no excuse vnto him to saye , the best reformed Churches doe vse witnesses ( he meaneth God-fathers , and God-mothers ) in baptisme . For his owne conscience knoweth and iudgeth , that the best Churches doe erre in so doing .

Furder , Baptisme being publique , to be deliuered openlie in th' assemblie when the whole Churche is mett together , what neede more witnesses of the matter then the whole Congregation . But howe wicked and impious is that lawe of their Church , which forbiddeth the Parents to answere and vndertake for the bringing vp their owne children in the true faith and feare of God , and driueth them to bring Popish Gossips or sureties , who must both vndertake , vowe , and answere for their childe , That he doth forsake the Deuil & his workes &c. What can be more vaine , folish , and ridiculous ?

TO the Baptisme by weomen you answeare , M. Giff. here confesseth both some members of their Church to be popish , superstitious , & ignorant ; And also this baptisme of their Church to be such . That it is both condemned by the cheif Gouernours of your Church , and is not practized , except it be among the popish & superstitious ignorant sort . First we must oppose the publique lawe of your Church against those your gouernours , who we suppose ( as confidentlie as you speake ) wil not proue in the plural nomber , when the pointe commeth to scanning . Your lawe in 3. places of your Portesse doth not onlie allowe the baptisme by weomen , but publiquelie iustifie it , and maketh a kinde of necessitie of such priuat baptisme : Saijng , that if the child be in danger , they may baptise yt at home without a Minister , and that in this case they haue donne wel & according to due order , concerning the baptisinge of this childe , which being borne in original sinne & in the wrath of God , is nowe by the lauer of regeneration in baptisme receyued into the nomber of the children of God , and heires of life euerlasting . Wherin , besides that they most highlie breake & prophane th' institution and ordinances of Christ concerning the publique seale of this holie Couenant , in deliuering yt without a lawful Minister priuatelie in a house , rashlie , and vnreuerently without due order &c , they also consequently maintaine & teach these popish blasphemous errors therbye . That if the childe had dyed vnbaptized , yt had bene damned ; And that baptisme is of necessitie to saluation : For ells what needed so great feare & haste , that they would not staye to bring the childe to the publique Congregation , no no● so much as for the Minister to baptise yt ? Or how could there he so great cause and so greate necessitie in the matter as their booke mentioneth , if they thought that the saluation of the childe honge not vpon the Baptisme ? Wherbie is manifestly conuinced , as also by their wordes not secretlie implyed , That they hold Baptisme the cause , and not the seale of saluation . For ells to the infant nowe dying what good could baptisme doe ? Or which waye could yt be a Laver of regeneration vnto yt , or receiue yt into the nomber of Gods children ? We had thought that the saluation of the childe had onlie honge vpon th' eternal election and predestination of God : And that the seale of the Couenant had belonged ynto yt , by reason of the Parents faith , and is administred not as anie helpe or present benefite to the newe borne infant , so much as when yt commeth to ryper age to be a contynual comfort & help vnto yt .

BIsshopping Mr. Giffard saith is litle vsed or vrged in the Church of England , being loath belike to make anie defence therof . Yet it is certaine that the Priest is in his Portesse enioyned to commaund , That the children be brought to the Bisshop to be confirmed , so soone as they can saye in the vulgare tongue , the articles of their faith &c. Also in an other place of their said seruice-booke there is an expresse lawe . That none shal be admitted to the holye Communion , vntil such time as he can say the Catechisme , and be confirmed . Howe accorde these lawes to Mr. Giffards saying , that yt is litle vsed ? But what a monstrous matter is this confirmation of their Church , where the Baptisme of CHRIST is to be confirmed of a wretched man , if he were ( as he is nothing lesse ) a seruant of CHRISTE ? Yea that Christes faithful seruants ( whom CHRIST hath alredie publiquely baptised , receyued , and engrafted vnto himselfe ) should be kept from the comfortable table of the Lorde , vntil they haue a popish Bisshop his confirmation ? Not here to mention the binding of the faith of the whole Church to an Apocrypha Catechisme . Yet to make this their confirmation either of greater estimation , or more execrable with all men , they add in the second cause manie speciall vertues therof . Namely , that by their imposition of handes and praier , such as are so confirmed by them , maye receaue strength and defence against all temptations to sinne , and the assaultes of the Worlde and the Deuil . Surely if this be true , great is the Bisshops faulte to neglect the practise the●of ; but howe great then our sinne , to blame and condemne such a wonderfull & excellent ordinance . But doubtles this is either too good or too bad to be true . If al they vpon whom these Bisshops shall laye their handes & praye ouer , shal receaue strength and defence against al temptations to sinne , and the assaults of the worlde and the deuil , then shal al they that receaue this Confirmation be vndoubtedlie saued . Yea if anie of them whome the Bisshop shal thus confirme , shal receiue this strength and defence &c , then haue the Bisshops greater power , and their prayers more vertue , then eue● God g●ue to anie mortal man , yea then euer he gaue to our Sauiour CHRIST himself ; with whom though Iudas were contynuallie conuersant his most Heauenly doctrines and holie prayers , yet the Deuil entred into him and preuayled against him . Though Peter were a right deare and faithful seruant of CHRIST , yet Sathan sifted him , and he fell . Yea we had thought that our Sauiour onlie had receiued this strength and defence against al temptations to sinne , assaults &c. And that al mortal men had bene dailye subiect to sinne , temptation , &c , that our reioycing might be of God , and not of our selues , and Gods glorie be shewed and perfected through our weaknes . If these vanuties of the Bissops were true , then might it indeed rightly be called a Confirmation , for then such as had that were sure and sure , there then to those should be no more vse of CHRISTES merites , suffrings , or mediation , or of Gods mercye . But because al men are continuallie prone vnto , and euen enclosed and compassed about with sinne , whilest they dwel in this mortal flesh , and haue continual neede of Gods mercy , and vse of CHRISTS merites , suffrings , and mediation : Yea because we see wel nigh al those whom the Bisshops haue thus confirmed , to be confirmed in al sinne and wickednes , and euen the Bisshops themselues the aucthors of this deuise ( from whom al this vertue and holines should flowe fourth vnto others ) to be them-selues the verie synkes & draynes of al abhomination , corruption , idolatrie , superstition , blasphemie , and open transgression of al Gods lawes ; We are confident in the truth and power of our Lorde IES●S CHRIST to witnesse against these abhominable ordinances of Antichrist and against the Church of England for receiuing the same , and maintayning the most impious blasphemous doctrines that ensue therof , as is aboue proued :

TO the blasphemous Collects in your Sacraments & Booke you wishe we were as weary in lying and sclandering , as we should be to seeke & finde out one such . You haue in remem●rance the Collects wherin the Priest by th' aucthoritie committed vnto him , doth absolue the sicke of al his sinnes . You must not forget your two Cellects said ouer your deade brother . The one wherin you praise God for receiuing to mercye his soule , liued he or died he neuer so prophane , blasphemouse , and impenitent a wretch . The other wherin you praye for him , that you with him may haue a perfect consummation & blisse both in bodie and soule . Nowe to helpe your memorie a little furder , we woulde desire you to consider better of that glorious Antheame you singe or saye in your publique Communion , wherin with Angells & Arch-Angells and al the companie of heauen you laude & magnifie &c : Wherin we wil not demaunde of you howe whilest you remaine in the flesh , you can haue such familiar conversation with those heauenlie souldiours and elect spirits of the faithful deceased , that you together with them can praise & laude God . Nether wil we presse you with the papistical and curious speculations in making digrees of Angells , Arch-Angells &c. But we would here knowe of you howe manie Arch-Angells you reade of & finde in the Scriptures , And whether you knowe anie more heades of Angells then Christ himself . Exept peradventure your Church haue some especial prerogatiue from the Apostatical Sea , to make Arch-Bisshops and Arch-Angells . Your Collect also in baptisme of Sanctifijng the floud Iordan and al other waters to the mistical washing away of sinne , some saye sauoreth greatly of Poperye , and retayneth the people in a superstitious opinion , That the water vsed in baptisme hath holines & some especial vertue in yt ab●●e common water , especially when yt is thus blessed by the Priest , and 〈◊〉 out of the hallowed Fonte &c. But we wil not presse you herewit● nether yet stand to examine your Collect vpon your St. Michael & all Angells-Day , how you make Michael a creature , and Canonize him amonge the Popes Saincts , and worship him amongst & together with all Angels : This shal be no blasphemie , no Poperie in your Church Nether will we stand to vnrip your popish patched Letanie , Or shew by what POPE , and whie euery part therof was deuised and added , And wherfore yt is good : As for the quick & the deade , For al that trauaile by sea or by land , For all weomen labouring with childe , For all sicke persons and younge children , all prisoners and captiues , For Bishops & Curates , For lightnings and tempestes , For plague , pestilence , and famine , For battaile and murder , and for sodeyne death &c. All which things and what ells that you will request at his handes , CHRIST cannot but graunt you , when you so beconiure him By the mysterie of his holie incarnation , by his holie natiuitie and circumcision , by his baptisme , fasting , and temptation , by his agonie and bloudie sweate , by his Crosse and passion , by his pretious death and buriall , by his glorious resurrection and assention , and by the comming of the Holy Ghost . And sweetlie you entreat him by them all seuerally and ioyntely to deliuer you from the euils aboue-said , and also from fornication and al other deadly sinnes . In which Sofrage we wil not obserue that you hold some sinnes deadlie , and others not deseruing death , because you peraduenture can shift it off with learning , howsoeuer yt standeth in the Popes booke , or they that made it thought of it . Onely we obserue that this your holy Letanie is a most rare and especiall confection , soueraigne good for all thinges at all times , but especially in the morning , and therfore it is so often enioyned to be songe or said in your Church euerie weeke at their mattens . Yet was there ( by what aduenture we knowe not ) an vnsauorie & vnhappie Sofrage stollen into your Letanie in Kinge EDWARDS tyme Against the tyrannie of the Bisshop of Rome and all his detestable enormities . Which Sofrage because it was nether so Canonical or holie , nether agreed vnto the rest , & could not be songe with them in tune ; Or because it was ouer rough doctrine for sondrie of their weake bretheren that then loued & yet loue the POPE & anie thing that commeth from him , with all their hearte ; Or ells ( that which is more likelie ) ouer plaine doctrine to make the people abhor all their Romish wares & marchantmen ; The worthy Bishops , most vigilant Pastors & Gouernours of your Church , to auoide these inconveniences , of their pontificall aucthoritie dismissed yt , thrust it quite out of their L●tanie , and vtterlie abrogated and razed it out of their Authenticall Leitourgie . Wherin ( nowe it hath bene by these learned men corrected , and this perrilous Sofrage thrust out ) it is impossible to finde ether heresie or blasphemie . But can there be more horrible & execrable blasphemie then thus to coniure & exercise Christ by his natiuity , circumcision , baptisme , fasting , by his agonie , his sweate , his crosse , his death , his buryal &c : what Coniurers or Enchaunters can exceede this ? where haue they learned thus to praye ? thus to dismember & distort Christ , or thus idolatrouslie to applie and abuse these outwarde thinges which he did or were donne vnto him in the fleshe ? Why might they not aswel beseech him by his growing in age , his walking , fleeping , weeping &c , by his crowne of thornes , the spondge , nayles , speare ? No meruaile they fetched this geare from the POPES Portesse . Againe , where haue they learned to pray for their fore-Fathers offences , if not of the POPE ? Where haue they learned to pray for all that erre , for all that trauaile by land or water , for all that are sicke , in captiuitie , tribulation &c , when there is a sinne for which we are forbidden to praye , when there are many most vngodly and wicked persons going about and suffring for much mischief thus traueyling , emprisoned & c ? Pray they not for Gods open enemies , for the breach of all Gods lawes , for the ouerthrowe of all maiestracie , publique peace & order , and for the destruction both of the Church & common wealth therby ? Also where learned they to pray against lightning , tempest , plague , famine , battle &c , when they haue no present neede , or haue no present feare or danger therof ? Is not this to trifle , to abuse Gods name ? Can this prayer be of faith to praye against lightning in the middest of Wynter & c ? Is not this to forbid God to vse his owne Creatures to his owne will and glorie ? Yea to forbid him to restraine his Creatures , or to punish his enemies by dearth , plague , warre ? Finally where learned they to praye against sodeyne death , that God should not call anie of this land , yea of the whole world , sodeynly ? Is not this to appointe God when and howe to call ? Hath not God reserued these secret thinges in his owne hande only , forbidden men to be curious or inquisitiue after them , and commanded them continually to watch & be readie , for in an howre that we thincke not , will our Master come as a theife in the night &c :

These are the publique prayers , doctrines , worship , and administration of the Church of England , which it not only tollerateth , but with an high hand commaundeth , maintayneth , enforceth vpon all men . Of all these execrable wares standeth Mr. GIFFARD a marchantman , retayling them to the miserale people , being with none more or so much offended as with those who refuse and speake against this tromperie ; whom how he rewardeth or refuteth , let this his blasphemous popish booke shewe . What defence he hath made for this worship and ministration , Let the readers by this time iudge , and howe smoothly he hath passed by and coulored , yea swallowed vp all these abhominations , transferring all the blame and reproach vpon the poore seruants of CHRIST , that condemne this trash , and admonish him . Euill signes ether of a true Minister , or true christian . None speaking by the spirit of God iustifieth error or blasphemeth the truth at any time . How far he hath sought to iustifie these antichristian deuises & popish enormities , and blasphemed vs for speaking the truth , Let his booke shewe . Yet bringeth he against vs a certaine Secte in their Church which condemne certayne thinges as corruptions & such as neede reformation , and therfore would know how we could abandon al th' assemblies for this Booke , seing manie disalowe manie thinges therin :

TO this he saith we make a double answeare : First that vsing a part , they doe homage to the whole . Then , that the best part of this Booke is an abhomination to the Lorde &c. This dubblenes is of your owne heart , who dissembling with God and your owne conscience to auoyde open shame , care not what wrong you doe others , or what iudgments you heape vpon your self against the daye of wrath . Our answeare was but one , and this . That you knewe neuer a Minister that vseth not the Booke , that standeth not vnder this Idoll . Or that had throwne it out by the power of Gods worde , or with-drawen the people from yt with al their preaching these 29. yeares : But that they all administer by yt , ioyne their gospell to yt , minister to that people that vse yt &c. That the conningest of you that vse the best and leaue the rest , connot make that best part you vse other then a piece of swynes-flesh , an abhomination to the Lorde . And that the perswation of your consciences could neither iustifie your worship , cleare your selues , or satisfie others : Especially when we see your consciences to tollerate & to submit vnto the whole , to vse part in respect of your homage , and to refuse part for shame of the worlde . This you were ashamed to inserte , because you were not able to answeare . Therfore in all this they but counterfeite , and you cauil . What folly can you finde in this saying , That in vsing part they doe homage for the whole ? Stand not all your Ministers bownd to this Booke , sworne in their canonicall obedience to administer according to the order prescribed therin , and not to preach against anie thing by publique authoritie established ? Stand not the Church-wardens and Sidem● bownde to present the defaults , And the Arch-Deacon and Commissarie , to censure the same ? How then ( seing all your Ministers stand in this subiection vnto yt ) would you haue vs thincke that the part they vse is not in respect of their homage to the whole ? Or howe woulde you haue vs thincke that they condemne anie part therof , when they speake not against yt and cast yt not out by the power of the worde , nether with-drawe themselues , nor the people from yt , but ioyne in prayers & sacramentes with them that vse yt ? Is this to condemne yt , or to condemne themselues rather in the things they do ? Can you with your fleshly reason put this away ? Might they not by your reason stand sworne to the Masse-Booke , ioyne to such idolatrous priestes & people as vse yt , yet if in their owne conscience or secretly they dislike some faultes therof , be as cleare as these Ministers you speake of are of the corruptions they condemne ? There are some truthes & some good things in the Masse-Booke also . You vse no good reason to persuade vs by your Schismes and diuisions in your Church , vnto your Church . We know that Christ is not diuided , and that there is but one Spirit , one Baptisme . CHRIST is not yea & nay ; yea in one place , naye in an other . Though christians may through the ignorance & darcknes that is in them , dissent in some things , yet ar they to walke by one rule , and not to teach diuers doctrines . Who so teach otherwise , or causeth anie dissention or offences besides the doctrine with we haue learned , Rom. 16. 17. is to be auoyded , to be cast out . If either of these factions you speake of had bene of CHRIST , Gal. 1. 8. they would ye● this haue proceded according to the rule of CHRIST against the offenders , and not haue remayned in this contention & diuision :

TO your next vehement exclamation of frensie , In that we terme the best part of your Portesse but a piece of swynes-fleshe &c , wherin you saye we strike at God and blaspheame that which is most holy , because therin are sondrie portions of Scripture : As the Lordes prayer , the tenne commandements , the articles of your faith &c. We beseech you ( when you shall be a litle come to your self ) are not all these with your Pist●es and Gospells in the Masse-Booke also ? yet you wil hold no part of that execrable Idoll , good . The Papistes hange the first wordes of the Gospel after Iohn about their necke for manie purposes ; shall we not saye that this or their Agnus Dei are abhominable Idolls therfore ? Coniurers vse diuers Psalmes and scriptures in their magical incantations & diuers Collects , with as litle euill as most of yours , shall we nowe allowe anie part of their Coniurations ? are they not altogether accursed ? The Scriptures then we see may be abused , yet no way iustifie anie part of the wicked action or naughty thing to which they are applyed . The Scriptures are holy & good of themselues , yet when they are thus violently rent , dismembred , constrayned , peruerted , abused , ioyned to these idolatries , they no way iustifie any part of the worship , but make the whole more execrable . We can saye then that those Scriptures which you thus prophane and abuse to your idolatries aboue-said ( as your idoll feastes and all your idol worship and ministration ) are in their due place & true vse , holie , reuerend , gratious ; But when they are abused , peruerted , and ioyned to patch vp this idolatrie , they make the whole the more execrable . All the Scriptures then of God are holy & pure , and all the whole Masse-Booke , and English seruice-Booke and euerie part therof are detestable Idolls . All which Idoll and euery part therof we can condemne , and yet preserue the sacred maiestie and aucthoritie of the Scriptures . All this your festered conscience & blasphemous mouth could to your furder iudgment confesse in our name , though Sathan that speaketh in you , by and by sought to quench it , by deriding our holie suffrings . Our bandes vnto vs are comfortable , glorious vnto God , and shal rise vp and be produced in iudgment with this idolatrous murderous generation of your horned cleargy . But now to the Scriptures be you alledged . If you were demaunded where you learned to mumble ouer that Scripture ( by you falsely caled the Lords prayer ) fiue tymes in your Morowe-Masse , and to vse yt at all assaies , to to saye yt ouer the sick , ouer the deade , ouer the weomen in Churching , ouer the marryed &c , should not your holie Father the POPE be founde the aucthor of all this ? Also if we should aske you where you reade , and how you could proue that blasphemous Article of your faith That CHRIST discended into Hel , what scripture could you shew or alleadge for yt ? Thus are euen those thinges wherof you glorie , tourned to your shame , if so be that you could be ashamed of anie thing . Yet howsoeuer you maye harden your heart and your face against the manifest truth , by this sleight discussing of your worship , doctrines and administration , euen by this litle which is alreadie said , all men may discerne what kinde of ministers & blinde guides you be . Also anie that had but once seene the Church of Rome , might easilie by the ●●ea-spotts & freakes you speake of , Ezech. 16 , 44 knowe her daughter of England at the first blush . For as the Mother such the Daughter is in al her limbes , features , and proportions :

Hetherto we haue spoken of some odious fowle faultes and errors in perticular founde in this their worship or Leitourgie : the furder examination wherof and searche of the rest that remaine , we leaue to the furder diligence of others , And nowe touching this their seruice-booke and Leitourgie in general , this we saye .

1. IN that they presume to giue and enioyne their prescript wordes in praier , they take the office of the Holie Ghost awaie , quench the spirit of the ministrie , and of the whole Church , stop and keepe out the graces of God , thrust their owne idle deuises vpon the whole Church , yea vpon GOD himselfe whether he wil or no :

2. IN that bie their Leitourgie they prescribe what and how much to reade , at Morne to their Mattens , at Eauen &c , teachinge the Church and ministrie to pray by nomber , stint , and proportion , it is not onely popish , but most friuolous and vayne , disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie :

3. IN that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to reade and when to reade them , as these Chapters and Psalmes at their mattens before noone , those at after noone &c , On all the dayes that they haue publique meetings and seruice through the yeere , and soe from yeere to yeere . They therebie take from the Church the holie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit of GOD . They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part of GODS holie worde which they reade not . As also abuse without order those scriptures they enioyne to be read :

4. IN that they shread , rend , and dismember the Scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context , to make them Epistles , Gospels , Lessons , select Psalmes , to their festivals and Idol worship aboue-said , They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of GOD & their owne feareful iudgment .

5. IN that they bring in and commaunde the Apochrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church : They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned , to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the Church . They thrust these deuises of men into the place of GODS worde , causing the people therebie to reuerence and esteeme them as the holie Oracles of GOD , of like aucthoritie , dignitie , and truth , and to resorte vnto them to builde their faith thervpon , and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church : besides the high iniurie donne vnto GOD therbie :

6. FInallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in , erect , and enioyne a new & strange kinde of administration , as is aboue proued in the perticulars : They make and erect a new Gospel , and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie . For the ministrie of Christ is only bounde vnto , and wil onlie administer by Christes Testament wherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the whole administration of his Church . Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of ENGLAND : are by al these reasons in general and perticular founde and proued at once to be counterfeite , vngodlie , and Antichristian :

His wide friuolous Parenthesis from the 17. page of his booke vnto the 47. touching read prayer and prescript Leitourgies , we leaue to be discussed and refuted by an other , to whose writinges we referr the Reader . Leauing Mr. Giffard and the whole Church of ENGLAND touching this first pointe of their worship , to be compassed about with the sparckes , and to walke on in the light of the fire that they haue kindled : Yet this to them of our hand , Esay . 50. 11 they shal lye in sorrowe .

THE SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION , IS THAT the prophane vngodlie multitudes without the exception of anie one person , are with them receiued into , and retayned in the bozome and bodie of their Church :

IN Mr. Giffard his former answere vnto this Transgression he then not being past al shame confessed That the most Churches in England want godlie Past●rs and there al are admitted , he that admitteth them being the worst in the companie . These assemblies as openlie guiltie of this confusion , sacriledge , & wilful prophanation of the holie things of God , he would not then defend . But now vpon better aduise ( the world being greatly changed with the reforming Priests since that tyme , and no hope left for that sect to preuaile aganst the Bisshops ) he hath changed his copie quite , building againe those Romish abhominations he had before destroyed , as in the Transgression aboue handled appeareth . And nowe in this Transgression , as one greatly greiued that such large wordes had escaped him , he seeketh to retract them in the best maner he may , and to salue al againe by saying , That the Church of England doth neither approue such admission of prophane men to the Sacrament , nor yet suffer it in practize wholie , howsoeuer they are admitted through the negligence of the Ministers &c. Where this high sacriledge is wittingly & wilfully committed by the most of the Ministers , seene and suffred by al the Gouernours of the Church who haue made , and doe maineteine such wicked Ministers , where most of the people of the land consent & ioyne in this sinne , where that lesser part of Ministers & people ( he speaketh of ) that doe not the like haue made no separation from these wicked Gouernours , Ministers , and People , that thus wilfully contynue in this pres●mptuous sinne & sacriledge , but ioyne vnto them in the communion of their prayers & Sacramens &c. Here we would knowe whether the Church of England may not iustly be reproued for suffring & approuing this sinne . 1 Corinth . 5 Ells th' Apostle faulted for reprouing the whole Church of Corinth for suffring & not casting out th' incestuous person , although no doubt there were in the Church of Corinth that vtterly disliked & condemned the offence . That all the Gouernours of your Church thus approue & mainetaine these wicked Ministers whom they haue made , is manifest , in that they doe not censure them for their heinous offences . That these Ministers commit this sacriledge , your self hath in your former answere confessed , terming them vngodlie , and iudging them the worst of the companie . Where by the waye ( not to hinder the matter in hand ) we must advertise you that you haue highly broken the rules of christian order and charitie towards these your bretheren & fellowe Ministers , thus to publish and condemne them ( and that to such as you hold hereticks and schismaticks from your Church ) before your Church had censured them , or you for the Churches wilful default had forsaken either the Church or them . If they be to be esteamed the true Ministers of CHRIST ( which office they professe to beare in your Church ) then great is your sinne thus disorderlie to blaspheme , iudge , and publish them . If they be not to be esteamed the true Ministers of CHRIST , them as great is your sinne in ioyning vnto them in communion of prayers and Sacraments &c , and in not separating from them and from that Church which thus presumptuouslie doth make , impose , and mainetaine such an antichristian vngodly Ministerie . Thus your disorderlie and vnchristian behauiour towardes your bretheren , yea the Ministers of your Church , ( wherof your self by profession standeth as yet a Minister and member ) might be greatly agrauate and more iustly charged with those faults you lay vpon vs of accusing , condemning whole assemblies of Christ , of rending and tearing vp the tender plants in most desperate and sauage maner . And al this before the Church of England hath censured these Ministers and assemblies . If we would be so friuolous , we could throughly wound you with your owne weapons : But we remitt you to the iudgment and vengeance of the Lord for all your blasphemie and cursed speaking : stil witnessing against the sinnes of your Church , prouing if God at anie tyme wil giue you repentance .

FVrder in your former answeare you affirmed , that you knewe manie Congregations in England where the Pastor repelled th' vnworthie from the Sacraments &c. We replyed , That euen in those special Congregations all the prophane and their seede were at the first receyued , as in all your other Congregations . And that this Suspention of the Pastor wherbie he repelled , was popish and Antichristian , euen the instrument of that idol shephearde , rebated , without edge or poynte , of no value , or power &c , and therfore this could be no separation , seing the suspended stil remayned of and in your Church . That al without exception were receiued in these Congregations we proued , because all without exception of anie were baptized . That none were or could be there put out we proued , because the Parson and his whole flocke , or al these special Pastors or flockes together , haue not that power which our Lorde IESVS CHRIST hath giuen vnto his Church vnto the worldes end , to caste out the wicked by excommunication ; and the other Congregations by his owne confession did not caste them out . All this notwithstanding , Mr. Giffard ( before he hath either proued the orderly gathering & communion of these Congregations at the restoring from apostasy , or that they nowe had the power of Christ amongst them to excommunicate the wicked ) wil needes by this idol popish Suspension iustifie these Congregations , and convince vs of falle accusation : And thus euerie where he administreth weapons vnto vs to wound & beate himself with his owne wordes , Prou. 14. ● . according to the prouerbe in the mouth of the foole the staffe of pride .

BVt at length to reconcile himself againe with those most part of Congregations & Ministers which he before condemned , he hath changed , peruerted and subtilely sullected our reason which we brought against those speciall assemblies which he endenoured to iustifie , and turned yt against the whole Church of England , thus .

Where all are receaued in by Baptisme , and no power to cast forth anie by excommunication , there all the prophane multitudes are without exception of anie one person receiued into & retained in the bozome & bodie of the Church :

But in the Church of ENGLAND all are receiued in by baptisme , and there is no power to ●ast forth anie by excommunication :

Therfore in the Church of ENGLAND all the prophane multitudes without the exception of anie one person are receiued into and reteined in the bozome and bodie of the Church :

THus after he hath manifestly falsified our wordes and changed our whole reason , framing yt in his owne conceipt as he might best deale withall , he then procedeth with all might & mayne to refute this Argument , and to convince vs . Which being donne , he followeth the chace so whotely , spending & opening his mouth freely into all maner blasphemie , as he driueth vs into sondrie heresies &c. But now if we might be so bolde to awaken the man out of his cholerick dreame , and to call him backe againe to our former reason after all this conflicte , pursute , and triumph , he shal be founde to haue skirmished all this while but with his owne shadowe , and neuer to haue comen neare our Argument , and so all his reproches and heresies must be fayne to returne back againe into his owne heart , where they were forged and whence they proceded . Our former Argument being reduced into forme , was to this effect . Into what Congregations all are receiued as members , and the said Congregations haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to caste out anie by excommunication , there al the prophane multitudes without th' exception of any one person , are receiued into & retayned in the bozome and bodie of that Church , or of those Churches . But in those special Congregations he spake of , where the Pastor doth repell from the Sacrament , al are receiued as members , and the Parson & whole parish , Or all those Pastors and their flock●s haue not the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth anie by excommunication . Therfore euen in those speciall parishes where the Priest by their seruice-booke repelleth from their Sacrament , are all the prophane multitudes without th' exception of any one person receiued into & reteined in the bozome & bodie &c. Here Mr. GIFFARD finding the Maior or first Proposition irrefragable , The Minor thus proued vnto him , because al in these parishes are baptized , and the Parsons suspention is not CHRISTS excommunication , hath sought to escape by changing & falsifijng our reason , which otherwise he was neuer able to answeare , He hath quite chaunged yt by putting in a newe Minor Proposition . Namely , for these peculiar Congregations wherof he made instance , he hath put the whole Church of England as they stand one bodie altogether . And is now driuen to mingle these his select Congregations with the other Most parte of Churches & Ministers whom erewhile he condemned & graunted guiltie of this transgression , and also to praye in ayde & appeale vnto the popish excommunication of that antichristian Hierarchie of their Church Gouernours . And this by furder falsifijng our wordes in both his propositions ; vizt. Where we said haue not CHRISTES power to cast forth anie by excommunication , he saith haue no power to cast forth anie by excommunication . We neuer doubted but the Church of England , as also her mother of ROME hath a false kinde of excommunication exercised in the power of the Dragon & of the Beaste ; but we stil denie that they haue that true Excommunication which is exercised in the name & power of CHRIST , which only belongeth to the Church of CHRIST . Thus if the man had taken his worcke before him , and proued as he had gonne , happely his triumphant conclusions would not so sast haue followed ; Then should he haue had lesse to feare , and more to reioyce of his doings , wheras now his reckonyng & iudgment are yet behinde . But if Mr. GIFFARD would vouchsalf to take his aduersaries into the field with him before the fight , and giue them leaue to bring and vse their owne weapons , then ( seing he will needes haue the question now generall of the whole Church of England , and our argument after a scholastical maner ) let yt be thus touching this Second Transgression :

Where all the prophane and vngodly are receiued into and reteined in the Church as members therof , there cannot be said the true established Church of CHRIST .

But in the Church of ENGLAND all the prophane multitudes & vngodly of the land were receiued into & are reteined in their Church as members therof .

Therfore the Church of ENGLAND in this estate cannot be saide the true established Church of CHRIST .

THe first Proposition is confirmed through the whole Bible from the beginning to the end ; Exod. 2. 5. 6. The Church of God hauing alwaies consisted of a select peculiar people , 1 Pet. 2. 9. caled & separated from the prophane of the worlde ; Ioh. 15. 19. None entring into CHRISTS Church but by a voluntarie profession of their true faith and obedience ; Act 2. 〈◊〉 Or standing longer there , then they keepe the same faith & obedience . The second Proposition may be proued by way of argument thus . Where all were receyued into the Church without any separation at the first gathering therof , and they haue not the power of CHRIST to caste forth any by orderly excommunication , there all the prophane multitudes may iustly be said to be receiued into and reteined in the bozome and bodie of the Church . But in the Church of England al the prophane multitudes of the land were together without difference or separation receiued into the Church , neither haue they the power of CHRIST orderly to cast forth any by true excommunication . Therfore al the prophane multitudes are truly said to be receiued into , and to be reteined in the bozome and bodie of their Church . This aucthor his two exceptions to the first Proposition of the repelled from the Sacraments , and such is depart of them-selues , no waye diminish the truth , or hynder the course therof . For the suspended , they still remaine members of their Church . For such Papists , Hereticks , & Schismaticks as depart of themselues , though they ought also to be cast out by orderly Excommunication , yet are they not nor can be in this their Church so cast out , howe infectious and wicked soeuer they be , because they haue not the power and excommunication of CHRIST amongst them . So that nowe all the controuersie wil be about the second Proposition , whether the Church of England haue receaued in al the prophane , & whether yt haue the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST to cast forth any by true excommunication . Thus far forth it is manifest & cannot be denyed , That the whole land , euen al the Queenes subiects at the beginning of ouer Queene ELISABETHES reigne , were all at one instant receyued as members into this Church , this Ministrie , Worship , Sacraments , Ordinance &c set ouer them indifferently . Since , al their seede without exception of any , whether Papiste , Heretick , Atheist , Witch , Coniurer &c , are baptized in this their Church : What then should let vs to affirme and conclude , That all the prophane of the lande are receyued into the bodie of bozome of this Church , if so be that there then were at the beginning of her Maiesties reigne , or now are , anie prophane in the land ? Wherfore he must either mainetayne that there haue not beene since this our Queenes reigne , and now presently are not any prophane & open vngodly in the land ; Or ells confesse his Church guiltie of this Transgression , for receyuing in al the wicked & propha●e into their Church . Neither wil all the Deuils sophistrie , his ra●ling , accusing , blaspheming of Christs faithful seruantes & witnesses of heresie , intrusion into Gods iudgment seate , sauadge and desperate rending vp the Lordes tender plantes , yea of whole christian assemblies help the matter , excuse him , or chardge vs .

We hold al such prophane , as either are not yet come to the true faith & obedience of Christ by outward profession , or are departed from the true faith and obedience of CHRIST , remayning obstinate and hardned in transgression or error . And this second sort although the Church should neglect or refuse , to cast them out by excommunication . We hold , that only such as voluntarily make a true profession of faith , and vowe of their obedience , Math. 3. 6. and as in the same faith & obedience seeke the communion and fellowship of the faithfull , Acts. 2. 41. are to be receaued as members into the Church : And that only the child●en of such by the one Parent are to be baptized . 1 Cor. 7. 14. We hold furder , that howsoeuer the dearest children of God doe & may fal , yet are they still ●enued by repentance : And that all such as continue obstinate in their sinne after due admonition , are not by vs to be esteemed faithfull , but to be held wicked & prophane , although the Church should refuse to cast them out . This we hope in anie christian or sober iudgment will not be founde , To call all suche prophane and to condemne them as infidells which professe the faith truly , and continue outwardly obedient , although in some weaknes and infirmities , as this malitious accuser falsly sclandereth vs . Nether shall we be founde to intrude into Gods iudgment seate , to rend and teare vp the weake plantes in desperate and sauadge maner , whilest we affirme those rowtes and multitudes of Atheistes ; Papists , Idolatros , 1 Cor. 6. 9. 10. 11. heretickes , blasphemers , extortioners , wronge-doers , couetous , proude , vayne , and light persons , glottons , dronckardes , adulterers , bawdes , whores , and whoremasters , theiues , murderers , and other such like flagitious vngodly persons , which were receiued into and are retayned in their Church as members , to be esteamed amongst the wicked and prophane of the world , and not as the right plants & true members of the Church in this estate . We are taught to knowe and iudge the tree by the fruictes , and easily can discerne these Vines of SODOME from the Lordes Vines , these stincking weedes , these nettles , thornes , thistles , from the Lordes pleasant plantes , the sweet incense trees , Cant. 4. 13. 14. oliue , pome-granate , figge trees of the Lordes walled Orcharde of his Church : E●ay . 60. 21. We cannot mistake the mountaines of these Leopardes and Wolues , for CHRISTES sheepfold ; the cages of these vncleane and hatefull birdes , Cant. 4. 8. for the holie assemblie of Sainctes : Neither may we nowe flatter and dissemble contrarie to the evident truth of God , Reuel. 18. 2. and our owne conscience , to iu●tifie and blesse the wicked , to call the churle liberall , to saye to the wicked they are righteous , Esay . 32. 5. and to them that despise the Lorde they shall haue peace , as this wretched man doth for his bellye . Prou. 24. 24. Who being in league with his Ordinarie , and in couenante with Hell , is not ashamed to stand a Priest of all these abhominations to the most abhominable , Ezech. 13. 18. seeking to pleade for and iustifie both ; Ierem. 18. terming these rowtes of all sortes of wicked vngodly persons , the Sainctes ; the assemblies of them , the Church and sheep-fold of CHRIST ; calling the most hateful and horrible sinnes they daylie commit , but their infirmities and weaknes ; the most execrable blasphemies and idolatries , but the spotts & bleamishes of their Church . What then shall we iudge of their sinners and sinnes if these be their Saincts , infirmities , bleamishes ? But there are none so bad as we that speake against these holie assemblies of these Sainctes , and that for these their bleamishes , infirmities &c. Al that feare God may tremble at our intollerable wickednes ( Mr. Giffard saith ) That teare vp these weake plantes , yea whole assemblies that vnfeinedly sorrowe and mourne for their sinnes , and studie to please God . We are they that take vpon vs to plucke vp al the darnel , though we be commaunded the contrarie , lest we plucke vp the wheate Math. 13. What spirit leadeth vs , and possesseth him and his Church , as also how they sorrowe and mourne for their sinnes , Let th' ocasions of these controuersies betwixt vs , their tyrannie , our sufferings , and this his present writing declare . Wee blame , and witnesse against manie most heynous & horrible sinnes . So far are they from acknowledging the same , that they wil not be confessed amongst the bleamishes of his Church . Yea insteade of repentance they persecute , he blasphemeth , and in euerie sentence of his booke casteth at vs in his furie these his fire-brandes , poysoned arrowes , and deadly dartes , wherwith his whole Booke is seasoned insteade of better grace , and al for shewing & admonishing them of their sinnes . Vnto this place . Mat. 13. which he bringeth against vs for plucking vp the tares , he must acknowledge these his weake plantes euen al the prophane multitudes & deluge of people , to be those tares , or ells he cannot vse yt against vs , or blame vs for plucking them vp . This if he confesse , then can they not be held in this estate the children of the kingdome , that tender wheate , that blossomed and made fruite . Then hath he granted vs as much concerning this poynte as we require , yea and iudged them as far as we iudge ; which is not concerning their future , but their present estate . Their election or reprobation we leaue to that great hous-holder the maker and iudge of all , conteyning our selues within the rules of his reuealed worde , whose iudgments we cannot lighten , or pronownce the wicked innocent ; against whose iudgments who so spurne or resist , but stomble at that rocke which wil grind them to powder . If Mr. Giffard vnderstand the field in this place to be the Church , he choseth rather to insist in the errour of others , then in th' exposition of our Sauiour himself ; who saith , verse . 38. That the field is the worlde , the good seede are those Children of the kingdome , but the tares are the Children of the wicked one If yt should be vnderstoode of the planted Church , then were al the rules , ordinances , censures , and gouernment of the Church vtterly abolished . Then might al be receiued in , and none at anie tyme for anie offence cast out of the Church &c. Then also could not the ciuile Maiestrate put anie offendor to death , for that were to roote out the Tares . Neither can these Tares be vnderstoode of those hypocrites whose sinnes appeare not ; for then could not the Disciples discerne , iudge , and seeke to roote them vp . Or being so vnderstoode , be compared to those multitudes of prophane , whose heynous sinnes are manifest . Let the Tares then be the children of the wicked one , and not the Sainctes of CHRIST : Let the tares be in the worlde , and not in the Church , seing our Sauiour himself so pronounceth them , and instructeth his disciples so to thinck of them . Yet let not his disciples in anie inordinate zeale seeke to roote them vp , seing they haue nothing to doe to iudge them that are without . 1. Cor. 5. 12. 13. But let them rather by al meanes seeke their ingrafting , in instructing them inal gentlenes , if so be that God at anie tyme wil giue them repentance to the acknowledging of 2. Tim. 2 ▪ 25 the truth , that they also may be partakers of the like mercie and grace with them .

WHat then hath Mr. Giffard gayned by this place ? That the open prophane & such as neuer made true voluntarie profession of their owne faith ( other then that prescript verbal confession which is enioyned to them al in their Seruice-booke , which a childe of 4. yeeres olde may say after the Priest as wel as they ) may be receaued into the Church . Or that al sortes of open wicked grosse impenitent offendors may be reteyned in the Church as members . This he must proue , or ells all that he saith is nothing to the purpose , seing we chardge their Church as heynously guilty of , and wilfully obstinate in these transgressions . But insteade of prouing , he slilie seeketh to change the question , by turning yt from these open prophane and wicked , to Hypocrites & wicked persons which remaine in the Church , whose children he saith ought to be baptized . Wherin , besides ●hat he beggeth the question , assuming in a stronge imagination that which he shal neuer be able to proue , That these parish assemblies are the true planted and established Churches of CHRIST , and these vngodly multitudes true members therof , he furder so doubleth and windeth betwixt these two starting holes , the hypocrites , and the prophane , as one cannot knowe whereto find him , or wherof he affirmeth . It being graunted that the children of hypocrites ought to be baptized , he wil ●hervpon conclude , that the children of the prophane also . Which if yt be denied , then he wil make no conscience to giue out , that we denie baptisme to the seede of Hypocrites in the Church . Thus standing vpon no grownde , he flitcheth & fleeteth vp and downe , seeking in an euil conscience to shifte off the truth wherwith he is pressed . First presupposing that al these multitudes of prophane & wicked are within the Church : Then endevouring to proue that al the children of such prophane and wicked as he termeth within the Church and to professe Christ , ought to be baptized . Wherin , before we come to the consideration of his reasons , we must note vnto the reader in his Proposition expresse contrarietie , error , and sacriledge : Contrariety , in that he with the same mouth in the same sentence pronounceth them as prophane & wicked , and also as faithful and members of the Churh , such to whom the Covenante and the seales therof belonge . Error , in that he thus iudgeth and blasphemeth them , if they be faithful & members of the Church : As on the contrarie if they be prophane & wicked , to iustifie their profession whilest they are obstinate in such sinnes ; Yea furder to harden them therin , to giue the seale of the Couenante vnto their children in respect of their profession , which cannot be donne without open & wilful sacriledge ; for if they be to be iudged prophane & wicked , then are their children also ( vntil they make profession of their owne faith ) to be held of vs as prophane ; the deuised written profession of their Church cannot sanctifie or iustifie either the one or the other vnto vs . Moreouer , the Church cannot denie to receaue those Parents or that Parent vnto the communion of the Supper , whose infantes they baptize in that estate . And thus by Mr. Giffards diuinitie may the bodie and bloude of Christ be prostitute to the open prophane and wicked , whom he thus proueth within the Couenant .

THe interest of Gods Couenant ( saith he ) doth not depend vpon their next Parents , but vpon the antient christians their fore-Fathers . For when God saith , I wil be thie God and the God of thie seede , the promise is made to a thousand generations . Exod. 20 ▪ So Leui paied tithes vnto Melchi-sedec because he was the loynes of Abraham : Yea al the whole nation of the Iewes were in the loynes of Abraham , and therfore holie & within the Couenant : For if the first fruictes be holy , so is the lumpe ; if the roote be holy , so are the boughes Rom. 11. Yea though manie of them were wicked , idolatros , reprobates , yet euen in the worst tymes were they Circumcised , and yt was not disalowed . But the Lorde caleth the children of those wicked idolators his children . Thou hast taken thie Sonnes & thie Daughters which thou broughtest fourth vnto me ▪ and sacrificed vnto them to be consumed : thou hast slaine my Sonnes and giuen them , by causing them to passe through vnto them . Ezech. 16. 21.

BEhold into how manie errors , mischieues , and blasphemies they fal , which in this maner spurne & striue against the truth , euerie worde becomming a snare vnto them to hold & drawe them vnto their greater iudgments . If th' interest in Gods Couenant ( as being the seed of the faithful vnto the sight of the Church ) depend not vpon the faith of the next parents , but vpon the antient christians their fore-Fathers within a thow●and generations &c , Then ought al to be receaued , and none to be kept or caste out of the Church ; Then is the whole world within the Couenant , of the Church , holie ▪ al being ●pronge within far lesse then a thowsand generations of manie faithful , and lineallie come from the Patriarck Noah , Then ought by this rule the Israelites vnder the lawe to haue circumcised all their captiue Can●●nites and heathen that came into their power , Then ought the Church nowe also to baptize all the seede euen of the most wicked and vngodlie , whether Turcks , Papists , Idolators &c , because they are all ●pronge of faithful Parents within lesse then a thousand generations . But because we reade in the Scriptures that Gods Couenant only belongeth vnto the faithful , and the seales of his couenant are nowe only committed to his true established Church ; Seinglawes & rules are giuen by God vnto the Church , to whom , and how to administer the said seales ; Seing none can enter into this Church , but by this true outward profession of faith & obedience , neither anie remaine longer there , them they keepe the said faith and obedience outwardly ; Seing baptisme only belongeth and is giuen to the members of this Church and vnto their ●eede , and can to none other be giuen without heynouse sinne and sacriledge , We doubt not to pronownce and reiect these doctrines of this false Prophet , as most blasphemous and diuelish . As ●ending to the open breach of al Gods lawes and ordinances , to th' vtter abolishing of the truth and feare of Gods iudgments , to the taking away of al faith and godlines out of the earth , to the bringing in of al Atheisme & confusion , to the prostituting and prophaning of the holie things of God . And therfore al true Christians by the commandment of God are to auoide and hold accursed the aucthor and bringer of such doctrines , Gal. 1. 8 and so much the rather , ● Ihon. 10 in that he so wretchedly and bouldly falsifieth , dismembreth , peruerteth , and abuseth the holie Scriptures thervnto .

AS to proue that the Couenant dependeth not vpon the outward faith of the parents , but vpon the faith of their godlie ancestors , he voucheth . Exod. 20. I wil be thy God and the God of thy Seede , the promise is made ( saith he ) to a thousand generations : But he wittingly suppresseth the next wordes of the sentence [ of them that lo●e me and Keepe mie Commandements ] which shewe to whom this Couenant is made and belongeth , and the condition on our part . As the former part of this sentence verse . 5. sheweth howe we may forfeite this Couenant , Namelie , by breaking and contemning the lawe of God , in whose loue we cannot remaine , except we remaine in his obedience . Iohn . 14. 21. & 15. 10. So that the Lorde most plainely in this Exod , 20. 5. & 6. verses declareth who & whose seede are within his Couenant of loue and protection . Namely , the faithful & their ofspring to the thousand generation , so long as they contynue in his faith and obedience . But if they breake his lawe and wil not be reduced to his obedience , then are they and their children caste out of his fauour , then as a iealous God wil he visit their sinnes vpon their children vpon the thirdes & fourthes &c. How boldly & presumptuously then hath this wicked man without al conscience & feare , falsified this Scripture in suppressing what parts therof he list , dismembring & rending what he alleadgeth from the natural context , peruerting and abusing these wordes [ to a thousand generations ] quite against th' expresse sense of God himselfe , receiuing the children of the open wicked and vngodly ( which the Lord reiecteth together with their rebellious Parents ) into the outward Couenant of his grace , and deliuering the seale therof vnto them by vertue of this place , because some of their fore-Fathers haue bene faithful , and the Couenant is made to a thousand generations . As though the Lord plighteth his loue to vs , and requireth not agayne our faith and obedience vnto him in the same Couenant . Let Mr. Giffard shewe one place of Scripture through the whole Bible where the Lorde his Couenant is made vnto vs without this condition , and then peradventure he may cleare himself & his Ordinarie for the publishing of this wicked and diuelish heresie , so directly contrarie to the whole Scriptures in more then a thousand places . For to what end should the Lorde haue giuen vnto vs his holy word , if he had not required of vs our heartie obedience vnto the same ? But because the Lorde is neuer founde contrarie vnto himself , neither anie contradiction in his worde , we may by the direct warrant hereof hold Mr. GIFFARD and his Ordinarie most heynouse falsifiers and corrupters of the whole lawe and worde of God , most blasphemous and pernitious false Prophets , That receiue into the couenant and iustifie all sortes of prophane , wicked , and vngodly persons : And so open the doores to all Atheisme and impietie . His starting hole and subterfuge of vndiscouered hypocrites will not hide or help him herein , seing we complayne That the open prophane and all sortes of the most wicked and their seede without exception of anie are receiued amongct them as members of their Church , And seing he endeuoureth to approue the same by manie other Scriptures .

AL Israel ( saith he ) was in the loynes of Abraham , all in the Couenant , and holy with him as the boughes with the roote , all within the Church by outward profession , and esteemed members therof , because the seedes of Abraham . Yea though multitudes of them were infidells and idolators , yet euen of them sprang the right holie seed , And therfore , as also because of their outwarde profession , were all of them held members , al holie ; And all their children ( in the tymes when idolatrie was openly mainetayned ) were circumcised , and that was not disalowed &c.

WE doubt not , speaking of al Israel in generall without anie perticular reference vnto this or that tyme or estate , but that Nation was a peculiar , chosen , Exod. 19. 5. 6. adopted people aboue all other Nations vnto the Lorde , Rom. 9. that they might be an holie Nation vnto him , a kingdome of Priestes &c , of whom the adoption , the glorie , the Couenantes , the giuing of the lawe , the seruice , and the promises . We ackowledge also that the Israel of God according to th' election of grace are all of them holy with their fore-Fathers Abraham , Isaac , and Iacob , as the lumpe with the first fruictes , the boughes with the roote . But yet we acknowledge not all to be that Israel which are of Israel , neither all the children of the Couenant which are the seede of Abraham . Iohn . 8. But they are the children of Abraham and of his couenant which doe the worckes , Rom. 4. and remayne in the faith of Abraham . Rom. 2. 25. Otherwise their circumcision is made vnto them vncircumcision ; neither doe their literall titles and prerogatiues any whit auaile them , but rather agrauate their iudgments whilest they are founde transgressers of the lawe . The Couenant doubtles was not otherwise made vnto them then it was vnto their Father Abraham . To whom yt was said be thou vpright and walke streight before me . Genes. 17. How often doth the Lord at the giuing of his lawe , and the entring couenant with the whole people stipulate and require their faith and obedience , when he promiseth to be their God and the God of their seede ? How oft doth he pronownce the Couenant broken and disanulled on their partes , when they transgresse & reiect his lawe , and denownce of his part all plagues and feareful iudgments for the same euerie where through the lawe & Prophets , but most plentifully in the booke of Deutronomie ? Deut. 29. 19 Protesting plagues against such as when they heare the wordes of this oath , blesse themselues in their heart saying they shal haue peace , although they walke according to the stobbornnes of their owne heart . How then should these friuolous reasons of this ignorant cauiller stand ? That because the Lorde speaking generally and indefinitely of his first chosing and receiuing that people , sometimes caleth all Israel his people , a holy Nation &c , Therfore all Israel in all tymes and estates of that kingdome should alwaies be his true visible Church , within the Couenant &c. This we see were directly contrary to the whole lawe and Prophetts . Should it followe that because the Lorde reserueth in and draweth out of the loynes of the wicked his right holy seede , that therfore the Parents are within God his Couenant ? Thus might the Turckes , Iewes , and most wicked of the world be iustified , because the Lorde his secret election is not restreyned towardes them . Should it followe that because all the Israelites were alwaies circumcised , that therfore they were within the Couenant , or were not blamed , or did not amisse in prophaning God his holy ordinance ? So might the Is●●elites , Ammoni●es , Edomites , and Moabites be said within the Couenant , because their ancestours and they were circumcised . We see outward circumcision auaileth not , when the condicion of the couenant is broken . And how could this bolde blinde guide saye , that it was not disalowed when all their children were circumcised in the tymes when idolatrie was generally and publiquely maineteyned ? Are such idolators within the Couenant of the Lord , or doth the seale of his couenant belonge to them ? Are not the children of the wicked excepted and reiected out of the couenant by the commandement of God Exod. 20. 5. as the seede of the faithfull are receiued into the couenante ? Then must it needes be high presumption & sacriledge thus to abuse circumcision , and therfore yt could not be allowed in those times to such persons . Moreouer , when these wicked are forbidden so much as to name the name of God , Psal. ●0 . 16. to bring any offrings or worship vnto him , Esay . 1. and 66. or to meddle with anie of his holy Ordinances , are they not forbidden circumcision ?

Should we also collect and conclude , because the Lorde Ezech. 16. 20. 21. caleth the children of those Idolators whom they offred to M●lech , his Sonnes and Daughters , That therfore the kingdomes of Israel & Iuda whilest they remayned in these horrible sinnes , were outwardly in that estate the true Church of God ? Or is this great Prophet so inconversant in the Scripture , that he yet vnderstandeth not this vsuall kinde of phrase and maner of speaking , where the Lord in sondrie places caleth them his sonnes , daughters , and people in respect of their first caling , whom in regard of their present euill life he pronownceth not to be his . As Deutronomie . 32. the 19. and 5 verse . Micha. 2. 7. 8 , 9. Amos. 8. 2. and no where more plainely then in this Ezech. 16. as were easie to demonstrate by the least touching of the argument of that chapter ; The Lorde there setting before their face by sondry Allegories their estate , euen from their original vnto that present time . Of what parents the● by nature sprange , in what plight he founde them at the first , all embrued in their mothers and their owne guiltines , their navel vncut , vnwashed , vnsalted , vnswaded , caste out into the open field , no hand to help , no eye to pitie , vnable to help themselues vntill the Lord shewed mercye , tooke them vp , chearished , nourished them , entred into couenant and sware vnto them , so that they grewe vp into riper yeeres , then he spredd his garment ouer them , washed and anoynted them , clothed them with broydred garmentes , fyne lynnen , silck , skarlet , adorned them with gold , siluer , pretious stones ▪ fed them with meale , wyne , oyle , set a beautifull Crowne vpon their heade , and maried them openly vnto himself , and spredd their name amongest the heathen . But nowe Israel waxed proude of her owne beautie , plaid the Harlot , built high places , and decked them with her garments , and plaid the whoore vpon them , made images of th' instruments and of the Lordes gold and siluer which he gaue them , and committed fornication with them , offring the Lordes meate , flower , oyle vnto them as a sweet sauour , yea sacrificed their owne Sonnes and Daughters vnto them , committed fornication with the Egiptians , Assi●ians , Caldeans , and that in most shamefull sorte , and vilely hyring them with the Lordes gold & siluer of his Temple &c. Wherfore the Lord doth pronownce and repudiate them as an Harlot , as a most filthie , poysonous , monstruous whore , Genes. 9. and denownceth iudgments against them as against murtherers and adulterers , Deut. 22. 22 and these iudgments to be executed by these their louers , who should breake downe their Cities and high places , and slay them with the sworde , the Lorde not only comparing them , but shewinge them to excede SODOME and SAMARIA in sinne & iniquitie &c. Who then but this perverse fellowe could thus stomble and cauill at these wordes My Sonnes and my Daughters , and wrest them not onely against the whole scope of that Chapter , but euen of the whole Bible ? Whether these wordes be to be vnderstoode of all their seede which were at the first together with them receiued into the Lordes Couenant ▪ or of their first borne only , which by a peculiar right & lawe were reserued vnto the Lorde Exod. 13. 2. ( which first borne they are blamed in the 20. Chapter of the same prophecie verse . the 26. and 31. to haue offred vnto Idols ) may be some question . Yet with no sense or truth they may be vnderstood as of the Lordes elect and adopted childeren , or pronownced that holie seede , being the children of such rebellious obstinate idolators . How often doth the Lord call them by his Prophets rebellious children , an adulterous Nation ? should we therefore conclude , that they were the Lordes children , the Lordes spouse ? Or rather pronownce from the iust lawes of the Lorde , That rebellious children , and th' adulterous wife ought to be produced , repudiat , and put to death . Deut. 21. 18. Leu. 20. 10. Furder we reade the Lorde to denownce extraordinarie & speedie iudgments not only against them that offer of their ●eede vnto Moleth , but against that whole Nation that dissembleth or suffreth that sinne amongst them . Leuit. 20. How then could this ignorant Priest collect & conclude from these wordes My Sonnes & my Daughters ( which were spoken but to convince & agrauate their sinne and iudgment , to stimulate and wounde their conscience ) that these children of these idolators , thus offred to Molech , were of vs to be iudged the holy seede of the Lord within his couenant , Or these idolators in this estate to be iudged the true Church of God ? Can they together serue God and Idols ? together breake and keepe the Couenant ? If Mr. GIFFARD can by his learning proue this true , then peradventure we shal beliue him that the kingdome of Israel in their schisme & defection hauing erected new Temples , Priests , Altars , Lawes , were defyled with all the abhominations of the heathen , despised & persequ●ted the Lorde his Prophets which were sent to them &c , were to be held of vs the true Church of God . Then peraduenture he might persuade vs that the kingdome of Iud● in this apostasye , hauing as this Prophet Ezech. sheweth in his 8. Chapter brought al maner abhomination into the Temple & defiled the whole land as we reade in the rest of his prophecie , was also by vs to be esteemed the true Church of God . Is it a good reason for Mr. Giffard to say , because the whole land was so throughly defiled , that it could neither by ecclesiasticall censures , nor by ciuile iudgmentes be purged , that therfore yt remayned still the Church in that estate ? Is not this to say they had not thus sinned , because their sinnes were incuriable ? That they had not committed adulterie , murder , idolatrie , because they were not presently stoned , slayne by the sworde , burned ? But howsoeuer they & their false Prophets blessed themselues in these sinns boasting of vaine titles of The Temple and People of the Lord &c. Ier. 9. 13. 14. 15. yet the Lorde for those sinnes did in his due tymes execute these iudgmentes vpon the whole Land ; Ier. 7. 4. and in the meane tyme his lawe & Prophetes spake plainely , Ier. 28. 8. 9 That these iudgmentes were due vnto them in this estate . And as wel might this false Prophet iustifie the Iewes nowe to be the true Church of God in this time of their Apostasy ( wherof he speaketh ) because the Lorde nowe amongst and in the loynes of these wicked ones reserueth to himself an holy seede , a remnant . It wil not help him to say That the vyrie-yarde was not then vtterly take from the Iewes , as it is now . For though the Lordes time to abolish that material Ierusalem that he might bring in & erect the Spirituall , was not as then accomplished , Though the Lord in his wisedome , mercy , and patience , and for causes knowen to himself , doe oft deferr his iudgmentes ; yet may not we therby flatter our selues , or iustifie our estate whilest we remaine vnder the condemnation of his written lawe , and in open wilfull breach of his Couenant . Yea howsoeuer the Lorde nowe hath vtterly broken off the Iewes for their sinnes & infidelitie , Rom. 11. that the Gentiles might be gathered and grafted in by faith , Yet is the Lord in his greatest wrath alwaies mindeful of his mercy , and hath set a tyme when to cal & ingraff againe the Iewes , that al Israel might be saued , and brought into one shepefold , as yt is written . But in the meane tyme it is no reason to say , That because the Lorde euen in the worst tymes alwaies reserueth a remnant in his mercy , Therfore these wicked people in those euil tymes are his visible Church . Or because the Lorde in the Loynes af the most wicked hath a holie seede according to his secret election , That therfore these wicked parents are in the visible Church , or their ofspring vnder the outward couenant . Yet are these Mr. Giffards best Arguments to proue Israel in their open schisme & idolatrye , and Iuda in their open Apostasy and idolatrie to be the true outward Church , whervnto the Seales of the outward couenant belonged and were giuen euen to the seede of the greatest Idolator . Yea the schisme , apostasy , idolatry , prophanation of the holie things of God amongst these Iewes & Israelites , are the best and onlie groundes he hath , or bringeth to approue & iustifie the corrupt estate of the Church of ENGLAND , and that the seed of their prophane Idolators ought to be baptized :

Saue that at length he hath founde out a merueylous knot in a rush , and of the same made such a share for his Br●wnistes , as they must needes either confesse the baptisme of their Church to be a signe of the couenant , And so they all from their ancestors and their whole Church are within the couenant , Or ells if they denie it , fal into the heresie of the Catabaptistes , and make themselues also without the couenant , or ells to haue a couenant without seales . But now if he wil giue vs leaue to vnlose this knot , we must desire him to learne to put a difference betwixt false Sacraments and true Sacraments , and againe betwixt false Sacraments and no Sacraments . The false Church hath her hyd bread and stollen waters her false Sacraments . Prou. 9. The Israelites in their schisme , and the Iewes in their apostasie stil had and vsed Circumci●ion . This Circumcision was no true Sacrament vnto them , neither sealed the Lordes couenant vnto them in that estate . Yet was this circumcision true circumcision concerning the outward cutting , and was vpon their repentance and retourne neither defaced nor reiterat , but they were restored againe to the Temple and receiued to the Passouer , 2 Cr●● . 30 As wee reade in Ezechias and Iosiahs tymes , as also after the retourne out of Babilon . In like maner in this general apostasie and defection from the Gospel ( so much fore-told in CHRISTES Testament ) the baptisme contynued and vsed in these Apostatical and false Churches cannot in this estate thus administered &c be said a true Sacrament , or seale of Gods couenant vnto them : Yet concerning the outward washing yt is true baptisme , and vpon their repentance and restoring to the Church the outward action need not & ought not to be againe repeated after th' abuse therof in the false Church is purged away by true repentance . Yet iustifie we not hereby anie thing donne in the false Church , but cal all men by all meanes from the same , willing their whole worship to be repented of & left , and forbidding al men vpon incurring the Lords heauie indignation to offer & bring their children vnto the false Church to be baptized , exhorting them rather patiently to expect , and diligently to seeke out & repaire vnto the true Church of CHRIST , where at the handes of Christes true Ministers they may receiue the true seales of his couenant vnto their comfortes . Yea assuring them , that whilest they refreyne from that which they knowe to be euil , and with true heartes sprinckled from an euil conscience , diligently seeke to doe the wil of God as he offreth meanes , they & their seede are within the couenant of God , 〈◊〉 . 5 , although through the iniquitie of the tymes they be stil restreyned for a ceason from hauing outward baptisme , so that they neither neglect or contemne , much lesse abuse and prophane of heauenly an ordinance .

THus this learned Diuine hauing ( as you haue heard ) bestowed all his labour and long studie to proue the kingdomes of Israel and of Iuda in their schisme and apostasy to be the true Church , yet to make the matter more clea●e and the more easie for the Church of England , he wil also proue her mother of Rome to be the true Church of CHRIST , Because the Brownis●es hold that this land in the tyme of Poperie was not the true Church of CHRIST ▪ and that nowe they are but confuse multitudes not rightly ●ntred into couenant with God . This that he may doe , he holdeth it not enough to affirme with other learned Diuines , That the invisible Church of GOD is in the Papacye , as in all other places of the world ; because God hath his elect there and in al other places : But he ( to be singular ) inverteth the Proposition and saith , That the Papacy with the whole apostasie , and all their abhominations , and al that receiue the Beastes marcke and worship his image , are in the Church , because Antichrist doth sit in the Temple of God . Thus whilest he without al vnderstanding or feare ( after his accustomed presumption ) peruerteth and wresteth the Scriptures from their holie sense according to his owne lust , no merueile though GOD giue him vp into a reprobate sense , and suffer him to drawe these heretical doctrines and damnable conclusions from the same , to the destruction of himself and of as manie as receiue his doctrines , If Antichrist may be said to sitt , reigne , and remaine in the Church of God , Hebr. 1. Then CHRIST is not made heire and Lorde of all , and set as Kinge vpon Mounte Sion . Psal. 2. Then CHRIST is either cast out of his house , 1. Cor. 6. 15 or made subiect vnto ANTICHRIST , or diuideth with him . Then the Church of CHRIST maie remaine subiect vnto , and be gouerned by Antichrist . Then the Church of Christ may stand vnder & be subiect vnto two heades , Eph. 1. 21 CHRIST and Antichrist . Then CHRIST is not the onlie head of the Church . If Antichrists Ministers & marcked seruants maie be brought into & set ouer the Church of God , Eph. 4. then is not CHRISTS Ministrie which he hath instituted to his Gospel and his Rom. 12. Church , Hebr. 12. 28 permanent vnto the worldes end , but variable at the wil of man . Then may the Church of God caste out Christes Ministrie , and receiue Antichrists . If Antichristes doctrines & lawes may be brought , set vp , & remaine in the Church , Deut. 18. Then Christ is not the onlie Prophet & Lawegiuer , Eph. 2. 20 Then may the Church be builte vpon an other foundation then vpon Gods worde . If al Antichristes abhominations , heresies , idolatries may be brought into & remaine in the Church of God , Then no blasphemie , heresie , Esa. 57. 21 apostasie or anie thing that man can commit or deuise , can breake the couenant , 1 Cor. 10. 20 Then may the Church of God & Idols be placed together . Reu. 14. 9 10. If they that worship the Beast & his Image may be said to be in the Church of God , and their seede outwardly within the couenant , Then the most abhominable and execrable may be said in this Reue. 21. 8 estate members of Christ , Reu. 22. 15 washed & purged with Christ his bloude , sanctified and led by his Sprit in assurance of saluation . Rom. 8. For none can be said to be within the Church , but the members of the Church . And whomsoeuer we may affirme to be within the Church , those ( so longe as they contynue in that estate ) we are also to iudge assuredly saued , for anie thing to vs reuealed or knowen to the contrarie . But if al these be most diuelish heresies directly contrarie to the whole truth of God , if they be most execrable blasphemies , such as christians abhor but to heare , Then let the aucthors and spreaders of these doctrines tremble , for feareful iudgments remayne them .

HIs slie distinction or euasion rather wherby he diuideth the Church of Rome into two parts , the Pope and his adherents , And the nations vnder the tyrannie of the Pope , doth rather bewray the thick darcknes of his heart ( wherin he is held with chaynes vnto iudgment ) and his giddye amazednes , then anie way clea●e him of these heresies and blasphemies aforesaid . His first understanding of the Church of Rome is the Pope , his lawes , his worship which hath bene deuised by himself , his adherents and al that worship him or receiue his marcke . These ( he saith ) are the Apostasie seduced to damnation , and not the Church of CHRIST , otherwise then thus , that the Pope , the Cardinals , and al that worship the Bea●t be false christians by profession , bredd in the Church and contynuing in yt , their seede not excluded from the Couenant . What a delphick Orakle is this ? What strange repugnancie & contradiction is here betwixt euerie worde of this his cleare Proposition ? How can the Pope and his adherents be said to be that Apostasy seduced to damnation , not the Church of CHRIST , and yet by the same mouth in the same sentence at one and the same instant be pronownced to contynue in the Church , and their seede not be excluded from the outward couenant ? Can they be said to be vtterly departed from the faith , from Christ , from his Church ( which is meant by this word Apostasy ) and yet to remaine in the Church ? How hangs this together ? May they be pronounced seduced to damnation , and not the Church of Christ , and yet both they remayne in the Church , and their seede not to be excluded from the seale of the couenant ? There ought none to remayne in the Church , but such as are by outward profession and obedience members of the Church . 1 Cor. 7. 14 Neither ought the children of anie be baptized in their infancie , except one of their Parents be a member of the Church . The Pope then , his Cardinals and adherents remayning in the Church , their seede thus baptized as members , seing none ells may either remayne in the Church or be baptized , How may they thus be pronounced seduced to damnation and not to be the Church , seing they are confessed to be outward members of the Church ?

THe second vnderstanding of the Church of Rome , is , of al those compaines of people ouer whom the tyrannie of the Pope hath hertofore extended , and doth at this daye : Or those things which were giuen by CHRIST which remaine in the same ; this ( he saith ) is not the Church of Rome but the Church of God . If by the people and tyrannie he here meane such persons , as though their bodies were vnder the cruel handes of the Pope , his Bishops , or Prelates , yet they kept their bodies & soules vndefiled with their idolatries and abhominations , and free from their antichristian yoke , counterfeite Ministrie , and ministration , and haue on the other side faithfully kept & practized the things which are giuen by our Sauiour CHRIST in his Testament , these people indeed can at no hand be said the Church of Rome , these are the true Church and seruants of Christ , witnessing & fighting through the faith of the Gospel against the Pope , the Church of Rome and al their antichristian cleargie and religion . But what is this to proue the kingedome of ENGLAND , or other nations which haue beene and are defiled with the idolatries and abhominations of the Church of Rome , in that estate to be the true Church of God , but rather the quite co●trarie ; seing these faithful witnesse against them , and haue no fellowship or communion with them . The Church of Rome we reade Reuel . 17. to be caled that great whore that sitteth vpon manie waters : That great Babylon the mother of whoredomes & abhominations of the earth , with whom the Kings of the earth haue committed fornication , and th' inhabitants of the earth haue bene droncke with the wyne of her fornications mingled vnto them in her golden cup. Reu. 13. We reade there , verse . 15. that the waters where the whore sitteth are people & multitudes & nations & tongues . We reade also that the Beast & the false Prophet shal deceaue the people of the earth , and cause them to set vp & worship the image of the Beast , and to slaye al that wil not so doe ; And cause al both smale and great , riche & poore , free & bonde , to receaue a marcke in their right handes or in their fore-heades ; And that no man might buy or sel , saue he that had the marcke of the Beast . Wee reade furder more That all that receaue the Beastes marcke that worship him or his image , Reu. 14 shal drincke of the wyne of the wrath of God . With what shame then can this marcked Priest goe about to proue the Church of Rome to be the true Church of God ? Or those nations which haue committed fornication with her , receaued her Ministrie , wares , abhominations , that haue receaued the marcke and erected the image of the Beast , and worshipped the Beast and his image , in this time of their poperi● , to be esteemed the true Church of CHRIST . His 3 stowte reasons wil not al proue this poynte . Though they held many poyntes of true and sounde doctrine , yet the many heresies they held , & those ( as this man himself in an other place of his booke confesseth ) Fundamental , doe poyson and leauen the whole lumpe . There is no heretick that holdeth not some truth . As to their holy Sacrament of Baptisme , yt being deliuered by a false ministrie , after a false maner , with new adulterate elements of salt , oyle , chreame &c , with their magical incantations & signes &c , and that to open idolators , can no waye giue them christendome , as this Popish Priest supposeth . Or if this Baptisme in the Popish Church be an holy Sacrament & true seale of the couenant , then would we knowe of Mr. GIFFARD or his learned abettors , whie their other Sacrament of the Supper or Altare should not also be held in the same accompt ? Or how the Church may be said to haue one true , holy , and auaileable Sacrament to be receaued , an other so blasphemous and execrable as is to be abhorred , at the same instant ? Or what kinde of Couenant this is that hath one true authenticke seale , an other forged and adulterate annexed vnto yt ? Furder also we would knowe , if the baptisme of the Church of ROME be a true and holy Sacrament , whie they should inhibit any from fetching the same there , and how they dare schisme from that Church that hath the Couenant sealed and confirmed vnto them . His second reason of some in al kingdomes that hold the faith , is aboue shewed not to iustifie , but to condemne the Church of ROME : But all those that had any communion with them in their worship &c in the tyme of Poperie , cannot in this estate be said to hold the true faith , or to be members of the Church of CHRIST . His third reason concerning the infantes is yet as false & fonde as the rest : For neither are the infants of these idolators by vs to be iudged holy , or to receaue baptisme , as he himself Pag. 49. confesseth ; Neither can these infantes anie waie iustifie their wicked Parents , or the open idolatries &c of the Romish Church .

Againe , although it be most true that the truth was before error and apostasie , yet herevpon it followeth not that error & apostasie are of in the truth , as this man would conclude of Antichrist ; That because he is said to rise in the Church of God , and to sit in the Temple of God , Therfore the place where he now raigneth & rageth is the Church of God . But by all these rules of the word of God we finde the Sinagogues that Antichrist hath erected to be of the false & malignant Church , and the Church of ROME pronownced by God himself to be that great Whore . Howsoeuer then Antichrist might haue his original and worcke in his 2 Thes. 2. 7. mysterie in the visible Church , yet as soone as his wickednes brake out and was apparant , Reuel. 9. 1. he forfeited his place & was to be caste fourth , as the Angells that sinned were precipitate out of heauen , Reu. 12. 10. 11. 12. and cast headlong into Hel. Yea those Churches that neglected thus to doe , and spared him , in the iust iudgment of God lost their happie estate , became guiltie of his sinne , Reuel. 12. 4. and partakers of his iudgment , and fel away with him . So then this phrase of Antichrist his sitting in The Temple of God might be much better vnderstoode , then thus grosly to affirme thervpon that A●tichrist now sitteth in the Church of God . Whether we vnderstand this his sitting in the Temple of God , as in regarde of his original before he was reueled ; Or in that he should sit where sometimes the true Churches of CHRIST had bene , Reuel. 18. 7. which he should so destroy & waste , as there should be no shape or steppes of any of them left vpon the earth , as it was foretold Math. 24. 29. Reuel. 6 ▪ 14. Or ells of those counterfeight names and titles of the Temple & Church of God which the false Church should arrogate and take vnto her self ; Howsoeuer , nothing is more sure then that all these abhominations cannot remaine in the Church of God . And in that it is in the same verse said that Antichrist shal be lifted vp aboue all caled God or that hath veneration , This cannot be donne by any Minister in the Church , seing euerie soule must be subiect . Furder also that he should shewe himself that he is God . Rom. 13. If this also should be lite●ally vnderstoode , what blasphemie will not ensue . And aswel might it from the same verse be enforced , that Antichrist is God , as that the place where he raigneth is the Temple of God :

THus hauing finished his● cardinal reasons of Israel in their schisme , Iuda in their apostasie , and this vniuersall falling away and corruption in the time of Poperie , to prooue the Church of England aswell as these the true Church of God , he at length addeth a conclusion in this authenticall assertion of his owne . The Church of England in the tyme of Poperie was a member of the vniuersall Church , and had not the being of a Church of CHRIST from ROME , nor tooke not her beginning of being a Church by separating herself from the Romish Sinagogue &c. If he here meane that the Lord had his secret ones chosen and knowen vnto himself in England in the tyme of Poperie which were members of the vniuersall Church , we graunt wel . But what were this to approue the generall estate of England in the tyme of Poperie when they were throughly infected with the apostasie and idolatrie of the Church of ROME , to be a visible member of the vniuersal church ? So that albeit they had not their being a Church from ROME , yet they had their not being a Church from ROME , when they were defiled with their apostasie and idolatrie . Wherfore to haue this conclusion passe , yt had beene needfull that Mr. GIFFARD had approued & made euident demonstration by the Scriptures that the Church of ENGLAND was rightly gathered vnto and established in that holy faith and order which CHRIST hath left vnto his Church in vniuersall and perticular according to the rules and examples in his Testament : Then , that in tyme of Poperie they fel not away from this holy faith and order : And that nowe they contynue and faithfully walke in the same faith and order . This if he had donne , then had he proued that which now he beggeth and assumeth . Then had he powerfully convinced and stopped the mouthes of al Schismaticks and gaynesayers for euer . But with al his learning and labour he hath not enterprised , neither euer is able to proue this by Christes Testament . The tyme past & estate present of their Church of England witnesse the contrarie vnto his face , and shew vnto all men how dieplie yt hath bene and still is infected with the Romish idolatries & apostasie from the Testament of Christ and in what sort they haue at this daye caste forth the tyrannie & yoak of Antichrist with his abhominations , idolatries , heresies , false Worship , false Ministerie , and false gouernement &c. He therfore in steade of approuing his Church by the rules of Christs Testament , striueth to proue yt a true Church though yt consist of prophane multitudes neuer as yet rightly gathered vnto , or established in the fait● and order of Christ , though yt haue not Christs Ministrie and Officers which he hath appoynted vnto the Church , but that false and ant●christian M●n●strie which the POPE erected , vsed , and left , Though yt be gouerned not by the rules of Christes Testament , but by the POPES Courtes , Cannons &c , and such lawes as these Romish Bishopps doe deuise , Though yt worship God after a Popish and most idolatrous maner , though yt reiect the truth of God and persecute all such as call them vnto or stand for the same . And this most barbarous and diuelish assertion he striueth to confirme by the schisme of Israel , the apostasie of Iuda , and the vniuersall defection and corruption of Poperie . Vnto which our finall answere is , that if anie of these 3. be iustified and finde mercie before the Lorde , then hath their Churche of England also occasion to reioyce . But if the Prophets euerie where haue denownced the fearefull iudgments of God against them , then will not their false Prophets vntempered plaisters , and lying diuinations of peace , help them in that daye .

BVt nowe Mr. GIFFARD procedeth to the second part of th' assumption which he first forged , and now refuteth in our name . Wherin he wil needs make vs to say ( though it neuer entred into our thought ) That their Church of England hath no power to caste forth anie by excommunication : and herein he saith we speake verie falslie : For the Church of England hath some power to excommunicate . We haue alreadie shewed how he hath chaunged and falsified our reason , leauing out & altering what he liste , and taking no more of yt then he thought himself able to deale withal . But if he had made his answere to our wordes as he receaued them , then he should haue proued that the Church of England ( especially those select congregations whose Pastors vsed to repel the vnworthy from the Sacraments ) had the power of our Lord Iesus Christ to caste forth by true excommunication , before he had chardged vs with lyes or absurdities :

FOr vs we neuer doubted or denied that their Church of England had power to excommunicate , euen that power , throne , and great authority which the Dragon gaue the Beast . Reuel. 13. 2. We take their excommunication to be the self same which was vsualy exercised in this land in the tyme of Poperie , donne by the same Officers & Courtes as the Bishop , the Arch-Deacon , or Commissarie , In latine in maner of a write , in the Bishops sole name , and that not for anie offence , transgression of Gods lawe , or heresie , how pernitious , damnable , and detestable soeuer ; but only for contumacye or contempt of their Courts : As for not appearing , or not paying such mulctes and exactions as those Birdes with ●ingers enioyne & exact . Vnto al this busines is neither the parish-Priest , Questmen , Sidemen , or anie of the parish caled , yt nothing concerneth them . The Priest he must of force pronownce yt , and the parish allowe of yt how vniust soeuer yt be or disorderly donne . This is the only excommunication of the Church of England , other then this they haue not .

THis Popish thunderbolt canot be defended or mistaken for that holie reuerend Excommunication giuen by God vnto and vsed in the Church of CHRIST against euerie obstinate offender vnpartially & orderly , according to the rules thervnto prescribed , the whole Church with one consent in the name & power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST giuing vp such a one vnto SATHAN for the destruction of the flesh , 1 Cor. 5. that the spirit might be saued in the daye of the Lord ; and this publiquely in the open church when the whole Congregation is gathered together . Neither may such excommunicat be receaued againe but of the whole Congregation vpon his publique repentance in the assemblie .

IT were needles to demonstrate the monstrous abuses of this their popish excommunication in perticular , and how contrarie yt is in euery pointe vnto the ordinance of CHRIST , seing this may readily be donne of the reader by comparing their descriptions together : especially seing this aduersarie himself dare not vndertake the defence therof . But saith , that though their excommunication doth not binde in heauen , yet yt is of force to remoue from the societie of their assemblies : which proueth our accusation false , because we reason about this outward remouinge . Verie good , but may this outward remouing or casting out of the Church be without the power of our Lord IESVS CHRIST , or by any other power ? Or are not such as are caste out by the power of CHRIST , bownde in heauen ? Can any other power in heauen or in hel separate any of God his childeren from the loue of CHRIST , and cut off any of CHRISTS members from his bodie ? Or may the Church be subiect touching these spirituall iudgmentes and censures to anie other power or voyce , then vnto the power and voyce of CHRIST , execute or confirme anie other iudgments then th● indgmentes of Christ ? Or may any mortal man thus presume into the verie throne and office of CHRIST ? Doe not al the Elders in the Church of God caste downe their crownes before the throne of the Lambe ? Reuel. 4. 10 Do not all the Sainctes execute & ratifie all the iudgments of God that are written ? Psal. 149. How then dare these Lucifers , these POPES rather then popish Bishopps , thus presume to bring in this popish excommunication in place of Christes , and thereby in their owne romish courtes , name , and power , without due order or cause , without the consent or priuity of the Congregation or anie of the Congregation , to cut off and caste out of the Church at their pleasure ? Or how dare these wicked priestes pronownce these accursed antichristian excommunications , and expel from their publique exercises , prayers , and sacraments such excommunicate ? Or the parrish thus receaue and ratifie this diuelish proceding ? Is it to be thought that that man which either taketh this for Christs or christian excommunication , knoweth what christian excommunication is ? and what it is to cut off anie member of Christ ? Or thincketh he to hide the horrible tyrannie and blasphemie of the Bishops , or his owne fellowe Priests perfid●e and treason , in yeilding his flocke vnto these greiuous wolues , or the miserable seruitude & spiritual bondage of their whole Church , that thus are held & wittingly stand vnder Antichrists yoke , by caling yt an outward remouing ? Is it not all the exommunication their Church hath ? Doth it not remoue from the publique exercises , prayers , & Sacraments of their Church & c ? And would he make vs belieue that this is but an outwarde remouing ? hath the Church of Christ anie other or furder power than outwardly to remoue from their fellow●hip and communion ? Or may their Church outwardly remoue anie by publique censure from their prayers , sacraments &c , and yet the partie excommunicate be in this estate esteemed a member of Christ , or they haue anie communion with him ? Then , this excommunication of theirs being founde a meere popish forgerie , and presumptuous blasphemie , directlie contrarie in euerie poynte to the rules and institution of Christ , cannot be saide to binde in heauen , because God ratifieth nothing there , whether it be donne by man or Angel , but what he here commaundeth , and we doe according to the rules of his worde . This then being so contrarie to the worde of God , cannot be ratified in heauen , and so it is apparant not to be donne in the power of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST , but in the power of Antichrist & Sathan . Their Church therfore hauing none other excommunication then this , cannot be said to haue the power of Christ to caste out anie by true & orderly excommunication . And seing they do exercise this popish blasphemous excommunication , which is not donne in the power of Christ , we may iustlie conclude , that their Church doth caste forth Sathan in the power of Sathan , to which power their whole Ministerie and people stand and contynue in subiection .

ANd now this aucthor not being able to iustifie the publique excommunication of their Church of England , seketh to withdrawe vs from the present question , by mouing two newe questions : And from those ( after his accustomed maner ) laboureth to confute vs . Because the Assumption euen as he himself with longe studie had changed , contriued , and framed yt , could not yet serue his tourne , His first question is this . If the Bishop with sondrie other Ministers of the Gospel do dulie excommunicate an obstinate wicked man , is he not excommunicate before God ? We first answeare , That the Bishop or the Church of England doth not excommunicat for anie wickednes or crime whatsoeuer , be yt neuer so heynous , though obstinacie be ioyned thervnto , as for Adulterie , murder , witchcraft &c , but only for contempt of their Courtes , for not appearing , or not paying their exactions . The we answeare , that the Bishop neuer caleth anie other Ministers to this action of excommunication . Furder we answeare , that this Lorde Bishop is no Minister of the Gospel or Church of Christ , and therfore he hath nothing to do with th' excommunication of anie member of the visible Church ; Neither may or wil anie true Ministers of the Gospel ioyne vnto the Bishop in this busines . But if they should , we say that such excommunication is not allowed before God , because it is founde contrary vnto his worde . Yet this we say , 〈◊〉 . 9. 31 that the obstinate wicked are bounde and excommunicate before God , Esa. 57. 21 whilest they continue in that estate , albeit the Church here should neglect or refuse to cast them out . Deut. 29. 19 ▪ 20. 21. For the iudgments of God do neither take effect by man , neither depend vpon man , or stay of man , Esa. 34. 16 but the iudgments decreed are accomplished , Rom. 1. 18 and the wrath of God is reueled from heauen against al impietie and vnrighteousnes of men that are contentious & disobey the truth . Rom. 2. 8. 9

Finally , though it were admitted ( which can neuer be proued ) that the Bishop and these Priestes were true Ministers of the Gospel , yet wee say , that this excommunication donne by them in their priuate assemblie or consistorie ( as they cal yt ) is contrarie to the rules of Christs Testament , and vnlawful . For there we finde this power committed & giuen vnto the whole Church by our Sauiour Christ , who sendeth al men to tel the Church Math. 18. 17. There we finde the execution and publishing of this , performed in & by the Church 1 Cor. 5. We find also the remitting & receauing in againe of such excommunicate to belong & to be referred vnto the whole Church 2 Cor. 2. 6. 7. 8. Furder we there finde the iudgments of God denownced against the whole Church , and euerie member of that Church , where this censure of excommunicating the wicked is neglected & reiected 1 Cor. 5. 2. 6. To these if we add the peculiar interest that euerie member hath in the worde , doctrine , and faith of Christ , 1 Thes. 5. 14 and in al the publique actions of the Church , As also the perticular dueties that euerie member oweth vnto the whole Church , Mar. 13. 34 37. together with the sondrie charges & exhortations euerie where in the Scriptures giuen them to watch , Hebr. 10. 24. 25. to admonish , to exhorte , and that not onlie the priuate members , but euen the greatest officers of the Church ; To marcke them diligently that cause diuisions & offences contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned , ● Pet. 4. 10 〈◊〉 . and to auoide them . Rom. 16. 17. 2 Iohn . 10 To take heed what and whom they heare . To hold such accursed ( be they men or Angels ) that preach vnto them besides that they haue receaued . Gal. 1. 9. To admonish Archippus . Col 4. 17. To withdrawe themselues from euerie brother that walketh inordinately , and not according to the tradition they haue receaued . 2. Thess. 3. 6. To note such as abey not the worde , and not to be commingled with them that they may be ashamed . 2 Thess. 3. 14. Yf their brethren sinne , to rebuke them ; if they repent , to forgiue them ; if not , to retaine their sinne . Luke . 17. 3. 4. And to procede according to the rule Math. 18. 15. 16. 17. These perticular dueties & chardges dulie considered , there can be no doubte but euerie christian is a King● & Priest vnto God to spie out , Reu 1. 6. censure , & cut downe sinne as yt ariseth , Psal. 149● with that two edged sworde that proceedeth out of Christs mouth . As also that th' excommunication of anie member belongeth to the whole Congregation , the whole bodie together , seing al the members haue like interest each in other &c , Albeit the Church thus assembled be to vse the help or Ministerie of the most fit member for the pronowncing of this excommunication &c.

HEre then fal to the grounde those 4. false interpretations of Math. 18. 17. Tel the Church . 1. Some vnderstanding by the Church the Pope , who they say is Christes Vicare general and supreame head of the Church . 2. Others would vnderstand it of the Lord Arch-Bishops grace , or of the Lord Bishops , who apart may excommunicate & absolue for the whole church . 3. Some others there are that vnderstand by this word [ Church ] the companie of Elders aparte , from , and without the people , which companie they cal the Consistorie , and this ought to excommunicate &c. 4. The last sorte are in a quite contrarie extremitie , and these would haue the people without the Elders to excommunicate , elect &c , and that by pluralitie of voyces .

THe two first sortes depend of one lyne , and builde their preheminence vpon the promise made to the Apostle Peter . Mat. 16. 18. 19. where the keyes of the kingdom of Heauen are giuen him . And vpon the Apostle Paule his example , who deliuered Himeneus & Alexander vnto Sathan . 1 Ti●oth . 1. 20. They bring also the commaundement of Paule vnto Timo●hy , To rebuke the Elders that sinne openly 1. Tim. 5. ●0 . and the commandement vnto Titus to reiect an hereticke Titus 3. 10. Touching the power of the keyes , we haue aboue in the handling of the Priestes absolution shewed yt , not to depend vpon the dignitie of mens persons or offices , but vpon the vertue & truth of God his worde : from which when Peter or the Pope himself departeth , his worde not onlie bindeth not , but is lyable vnto reprofe , & bownd by the worde : Which worde is giuen not to Peter onlie , but to the whole Church that is builte vpon that rocke and to euerie member therof , and hath like power to binde or to loose in the mouth of the least , as in the mouth of the greatest : For it is impossible that the word of God should be made of none effect . As to Paules example we suppose they can euil shewe any such authenticke warrant for their Apostolike aucthority ouer al Churches & persons , or such measure of grace as Paule had : & therfore we thinck they ought quietly to remaine within such lawes and limits in their calings as Paule hath left order . For the commaundments giuen to Timothy & Titus , they can neither proue that they executed them in such pontifical maner as they do , or in their owne names alone . The contrarie appeareth in the verie words of the commandements . Neither if this were so , can they shewe themselues to haue an E●angelistes office as they had .

THe other two sortes , the one wherof giueth this power of excommunication vnto the Consistorie of Elders without the people , the other vnto the people by pluralitie of voyces without the Elders , fal into these errors and confusion in that they knowe not , or at the least doe not dulie consider what either the communion of Sainctes , or the holie order of Christ is in his Church . For if they did they would neuer thus vnnaturallie separate the members from the bodie , or diuide the bodie into partes . The first sorte of these interpret these wordes Eipe●te ●cclesia . Tel the Con●is●ory , building it vpon the Iewes San hedrin or Sunedrion That as the Iewes in those tymes complayned vnto their Elders in this councel , and the councel cast out of the Sy●●gogue such as they iudged offenders , as Iohn . 9. 22. & 12. 42. So our Sauiour Math. 18. 17. sendeth to this newe Consistory , who haue like power to caste out of the Church . We may here as in a mir●our behold how far the wisest whilest they followe their owne deuises , do erre from the truth . Is it likelie or possible that our Sauiour Christ would fetch his patterne for the Elders of his Church and th' excuting these high iudgments from that corrupt degenerat Sunedrion of the Iewes , which by th' institution of God was merelie civile , and not or deined for causes ecclesiastical , as appeareth Exod. 18 ▪ Numb 11. Deutr. 1. the Priestes bearing the chardge and hauing the deciding of al ecclesiasticall causes Numb . 18. Deut. 17. But this councel of theirs was now mixed of the Elders , of the People , and the Priestes , and handled al causes both civile and ecclesiastical indifferently , Mat. 26. 3. Actt. 4. 5. How vniustlie and vngodlie they dealt , may appeare by their handling our Sauiour and his Apostles from tyme to tyme . Now as there is no likenes to collect these surmises from that place , so is ther no one circumstance in that scripture to leade thervnto , There being taught how al Christians ought to reproue and prosecute offences one towards an other , al being generallie comprised within this rule , to admonish & be admonished , aswel Elders as others . There is no mention of anie sending vnto such Consistory of Elders as they ●eigne vnto themselues , & would erect . The Heathen & Publicane there spoken of haue no reference vnto , neither giue anie occasion to speake of the Iewish Sunedrion . The heathen al men knowe were not excommunicate or caste out , but kept out of the Temple : they might not enter Deut. 23. The Publicanes though in ciuile conversation they were abhorred of the precise Pharasies , yet were they not caste out of the Temple being Iewes or Proselites Luk. 18. 10. So that our Sauiour there rather teacheth his Disciples by the present estate & estimation of the Heathen & the Publicane how to walke towards th' excommunicate , by th' example of the one to avoide al spiritual communion with them as with heathens , as also by the example of the Publicane al civile conversation as much as may be , them anie way there sendeth to this Consistory , wherof through the whole Testament of Christ they can shew no warrant . But directlie contrarie it were to the order , power , and libertie of the whole Church , to the duties of euerie member , and to the duties of these Elders in their offices , That they should in this maner draw all the actions & affaires of the whole Church into their priuate Consistory before themselues only . Elders were appointed for the preseruation of the order of the Church , 1 Tim. 3. and not for the subuertion therof : Tit. 1. 5. for the defence of the libertie of the least , 3 Ioh. 9. and not to plucke away the libertie of all . Elders were appointed to instruct & to guide the Church in the worde and wayes of God , 2 Cor. 11. 20 and not to plucke the worde of God from them into their owne handes only , and to debarre them from walking in the waies that God hath prescribed and commanded . Though Elders be gouernours and ouerseers of the Church , 1 Pet. 5. 3. yet are they seruantes of the Church , and not Lordes ouer Godes heretage . 1 Cor. 12. 19 They are members of the whole bodie , and not the whole body . Ephes. 4. 7. 16. If al were one or some fewe members , where were the bodie ? The bodie is not one member but manie , And as yt consisteth of manie members so hath yt vse of al , and may be separate from none . How vnnatural then are those members which thus separate & seclude themselues from the whole , yea rather sequester & seclude the whole from them , and arrogate & assume the publick duties & power of the whole into their owne handes , as though God had giuen al giftes vnto them , and they had no neede of others . And thus puffed vp with preeminence of their owne place and excellencie of their owne giftes , despise all the rest as base , ignorant , vnworthie to be in their Consistory , to haue anie voyce of consent or dissent there , alleadging them to be tumultuous , contentious , factious , vngouerned , ignorant , inclined to the worst &c : thus abuse they their owne giftes and depraue others . These are euill speaches and harde reportes to be gyuen out vpon the people of God , the chosen of CHRIST , partakers of the same pretious faith and glorious inheritance with themselues , members of the same bodie even members of CHRIST with them , sanctified with the same spirit and abhorring these euils wherwith they are chardged , humble and easie to be ledd , ordered , and gouerned by the worde of God in all thinges : Not presuming to speake beyonde the proportion of their faith & knowledge , Rom. 12. 3. or without necessitie , or due order ; which who so transgresseth is publickly reproued ; So that these fitlier agree to these tumultuous assemblies where all the prophane are receaued as members , then vnto the holie Churches of Christ where none but the faithfull are admitted or remayne . Wherfore these accsuations which are caste vpon the people are rather caste vpon the Church , yea vpon Christ himself , who is the aucthor of this lawe & commandement ; who sendeth to the whole Church , and commandeth the whole Church & not the Consistory to excommunicate : 1 Cor. 14. 33 yet is not Christ the aucthor of disorder but of peace , 1 Cor. 11. 16. neither haue the Churches of God custome to be contentious . For the auoyding of which disorder and contention are Elders appointed of God to instruct and guide the Church in doing the wil of God , And not to withdrawe those actions which God hath commaunded to be donne in and by his Church publickely , into a priuate Consistory , into the handes of a fewe : Wherin they make themselues transgressours of the wil of God , disturbers , and violaters of that holy order which CHRIST hath established in his Church , 1 Cor. 14. 24. 25. and of that heauenly Sy●phony wherin CHRIST hath contempered the whole bodie together .

And now as the fault and pride of these Elders is great and intollerable of the one side , so were it againe a most monstruous confusion & high rebellion on the other side , if the people should thus expulse and shut out their gouernours and guides , those most fit members that God hath giuen them to these actions , from amongst them , and then decide and determine causes by pluralitye of voyces . What can be deuised more barbarous and vnworthie the Church of CHRIST then this ? Were not this as if the bodie should offer violence vnto or laye aside the eyes , and then diuide yt self into factions and partes for the busines yt hath to doe ? This balloting by suffrage or plurality of voyces might well be a custome amongst the heathen in their popular gouernmentes , but yt is vnhearde of and vnsufferable in the Church of CHRIST , whatsoeuer some dreame vnto themselues therof . There all from the highest to the lowest in all actions enquire the will of God : 〈◊〉 8. 19. which being knowen , they all then walke by the same rule , Phil. 3 ▪ 16. and with one consent doe the will of God accordingly . There is no diuision in that bodie , Phil. 2. 2. 3. neither anie thing donne according to the will of man , but according to the will of God only , all hauing receiued of and being guided by one and the same spirit , euen as God is one , and CH●IST not yea and naye . Now though all the members haue receiued of this spirit of God , yet haue not all receiued in like measure , ● C●rinth . 12 Though all the bodie be light , yet is not all the bodie an eye . Rom. 1● . 4. 5. 6. But God that hath made the bodie to consist of diuers members , hath distributed diuers giftes in diuers measure vnto them . Some he hath giuen Pastors , some Teachers &c , for the helpe and seruice of the whole , which members the whole bodie vseth according to their gifts , office , and function . The whole bodie asketh instruction of their Teachers , councel of their Elders &c. The people are commanded to obey their leaders , 1 Th●s . 5. 12. 1● . and to submit , to acknowledge , to hono● them , and to haue them in super-aboundant loue . These are of God set ouer the flocke , Hebr. 13. 17. to watche , to instruct , admonish , exhort , rebuke &c : 2 Tim. ● . 1. 2 yet not to plucke awaye the power & liberty of the whole Church , Acts. 20. 28 or to translate and assume the publicke actions of the whole Church into their owne handes alone , 3 Iohn . 9. They are men and may erre : They themselues euen for al their doctrines ▪ Rom. 16. 17. and actions are subiect to the censure of the Church , ●al. 1. 8. 9. or of the least members of the Church , if in any thing they be founde to erre or transgresse . Col. 4. 17. Yea if they remaine obstinate , T it 3. 10. that Congregation wherof they remaine Ministers & members is to procede against them & to excommunicate them as any other 2 Thes. 3. 14 member . For ( as it hath bene said ) the iudgments of the Church are not the iudgments of men but of God , to which al the members of the Church must alike be subiect . Which iudgmentes , as they are committed to the whole Church with perfect rules for their maner of proceding in euerie circumstance , so is the Church herevnto to vse such members as God hath giuen & made most fit . 1 Cor. 3. 22. 23. For Paule , Apollo , and Cephas are theirs . And this doth no way diminish the power & interest of the Church in this action , Or translate these publick affaires from the whole vnto these Elders , whose councel , direction , and seruice the Church vseth herein , no more then a Prince or State may be said not to doe those thinges wherevnto they vse the aduise & seruice of their Councel .

By the Church then here we vnderstand euerie perticular Congregation subsisting of al the members . Euerie of which Congregations hath equall interest in the worde , promises , iudgments , and power of Christ . CHRIST hath giuen vnto al Churches the same testament , ministrie , lawes , and ordinances , with like chardge & aucthoritie to obserue the same . He hath giuen them the same order and communion in all places , one and the same rule to walke by towardes them within the faith , as also to auoide & cast out such as depart from the faith or walke inordina●ly . Neither hath CHRIST giuen vnto anie one Church more power or prerogatiue then vnto al other , Or set one Church aboue & ouer an other , otherwise then to wish & seke the good each of other & of al , to admonish , exhort , stirr vp each other as occasion requireth . And vnto this euerie member of Christ is also bounde in his caling , but not to intrude & encroach vpon the publicke actions & duties of the whole Church , or the perticular functions & offices of others . As to Pastors & Elders , Acts. 20. 2● their office extendeth but vnto those flockes wherof the holy Ghost hath set them Ouerseers , 1 P●t. 5. 2. and not vnto all Churches in this maner , to which their ministrie neither doth nor can extend . Agayne , Excommunication is no part of their ministrie . Neither hath God tyed it vnto the office of any , but left it a publick dutie of the whole Congregation to be donne of al with one consent . How presumptuous then is he that vsurpeth this power ouer , yea of other Congregations to excommunicate , absolue , elect , depose &c for them , yea that thus plucketh from them that power & chardge which Christ hath giuen vnto them ? But how monstruous & intollerable were the pride of that Consistory which consisting but of a few perticular members , shal assume the power & duties of so many Churches into their owne handes ? We are of minde that the best and learnedst of them shall finde their owne perticular offices in their owne perticular flockes as much as they can well performe and dischardge , though they should not thus encroach vpon and assume the publick duties of the whole Church , much lesse of m●nie Churches . And sure if this Consistory should duely intend all the seueral occasions , complaintes , and matters of offence that howrely arise in so manie sondrie Congregations , especially where all the multitudes are receiued in as members , they should doe nothing ells through their whole life but sit in this Consistory , yea their whole liues would not suffice to a litle part of this chardge , where al th' offences of these multitudes both publick and priuate were duly admonished and prosecuted according to the commandement of God . And so should these Pastors & Elders neuer be able to exercise their owne ministri & officers in those peculiar Congregations where they are chosen to serue . Againe , if euerie Congregation should be thus posted ouer and sent to this Consistory for the censuring of euerie pe●ticular offence & offender howe manifest soeuer &c , manifold inconveniences and mischieues would thervpon ensue . As that they must be driuen oft-tymes to receaue and ioyne vnto the most wicked & abhominable in their prayers & sacraments ; yea if the Pastor himself should fal into some sinne & heresie , they must of force suffer him to administer vntill this Consistory had caste him out . Many were the reasons & more the inconveniences that might be alleadged against this presumptious irregular Consistory ▪ which hath no grownde in the worde of God , but vtterly subuerteth , destroyeth , and corrupteth the whole order & communion of the Churches , openeth a wide gap to al licentiousnes & prophanenes of maners and conuersation , wherin if the thowsand part of the heynouse faultes of these wicked multitudes , these Sodomitical christians of these tymes should be noted , prosecuted , censured , they should then in one weeke haue as few christians as now they haue many ; but nowe by this reiecting Gods ordinance & erecting their owne deuises , al sinne aboundeth & ouer-floweth , and no sinne ( though obstinatly held & persisted an ) is iudged to deserue this censure , Especially here in England where they excommunicate for no sinne ; but as the faultes aboue alleadged are held but bleamishes in their worship , so the greatest sinnes & wickednes are held but infirmities in their life by the Prophets of these dayes . But vnto this their Consistory againe . They that thus shall erect & advance one perticular Congregation as a Iudge & a Mother ouer others their Sisters , must also erect in the same Congregation or Consistorie , one perticular Pastor that must be a Iudge & a Father ouer other Pastors his bretheren . And then let them duly consider how far this differeth from , Or at leaste how then they can condemne that Apostatical Sea of ROME , and that vnholy Father that sitteth therin . And let Mr. GIF . that is so wel skilled in discipline & so derideth our ignorance , now at length consider better of this reason , Seing euery perticular Congregation of Christ hath the power of our Lord Iesus Christ against all sinne and transgression to censure the sinne , and to excommunicate the obstinate offenders &c. And seing these Parishes haue not this power of Christ , neither in themselues in perticular , nor yet in their Consistories as hath bene proued , whether this conclusion which he termeth so absurde will not followe , That they are not therfore the true churches of Christ . And let him the next time frame a better answere then the Geneua Consistory , which though for the reasons abouesaid yt can yeild him no help , yet may it not be compared with the popish courtes of these antichristian Bishops :

Neither will his other kindes of excommunication in their English Romish Synodes proue better . Our answeare then vnto his second question is , That the excommuncication of an hereticke after he is dulie convinced & founde obstinate , belongeth not to anie Bishops or Elders of other Churches , but vnto that Congregation wherof this heretick stood a ioyned member . Although we graunt that for the discussing of matters in doubt , Acts. 15. and the convincing of some notorious subtile heretick , the ayde of other Churches is verie necessarie . But the bloudie procedings of these popish Bishops that in their Consistory not onlie convince the heretitke after their scholastical and vnchristian maner , but deliuer him to the secular powers to be burned with fire ( whether the qualitie of the heresie deserue death or no by the lawe of God , wherbie they make the magistrates together with themselues guiltie of murder ) declare vnto al men how vnlike their popish Consistories are to the holie , free , wel ordered Synodes of christian Churches . But blessed be God that hath somewhat restrayned their crueltie and hewen their antichristian hornes by statute heere in t●is land that they cannot in that maner procede vnto bloude : howsoeuer , their tongues are not restrayned therbie from pronowncing that truth of Christes Gospel ( which they cannot and dare not v●dertake to convince ) heresie : and those Christians which yeild not to their antichristian yoke and enormities , Hereticks .

Vnto the Convocation also of these Romish Priests and horned Cleargie , we answeare , That it carieth no shew of a christian Synode or Councel ; and so their excommunication of as litle value as their Sire the Popes is . Furder we answeare , That Synodes and Councels were not instituted to plucke away the power or ●o execute the publicke dueties of the Church , but to instructe , stir vp , and confirme them in their duties , to help them to decide controversies , to shew them the rules of Gods worde , and not to breake them or to make newe . Moreouer we saye , That in a christian Synode no christian ought to be shut out , Acts. 15. but hath equal power and freedome to speake in assent or dissent of anie thing there handled , as occasion requireth . Yet ought euerie christian to vse this power and libertie aright , not disturbing the holie order of the Church , presuming to speake before their auntients , or against anie thing by them said , without shewing iust cause &c , alwaies keping themselues within the compasse of faith and sobrietie : Who so doth otherwise is reproued of al , and iudged of al as a disturber .

NExt commeth the Suspension or half communication of the Church of ENGLAND , namely , the Priestes repelling notorious offenders & the open Wicked from the Sacrament . Mr. Siffard being demaunded of vs simple christians what warrant he could shew for this strange censure in the Testament of CHRIST , and what aucthoritie the Priest there hath to excommunitate anie member of the Church , if so be this Suspension were in nature of excommunication , Answeareth ; that it is in nature of excommunication to such as haue bene before admitted , yet not to be compared or anie thing neere so great as excommunication ; And for the Minister , that he is to take heed to himself that he giue not holie things to doggs ; To beware of that which may giue publick offence , & bring the holie mysteries into contempt . Because these his answeres doe no way shew or proue that we demaund , it is needful that we make a litle ●urder search to seeke out the nature of this Suspension , and how neere yt commeth to excommunication . We finde that such as before were partakers of , are now openlie repelled from the Table of the Lord for notorious sinne & wickednes by the Priest alone . Now touching this Sacrament doth not the Apostle say The Cup of blessing which we blest , is yt not the communion of the blood of CHRIST ? The breade which we breake , is it not the Communion of the Bodie of CHRIST ? Because we manie are one breade , one Bodie ; for we all partake of one breade 1 Cor. 10. 16. 17. We see here this Sacrament of the Supper to denote that communion which all that partake therof haue with Christ as his members : And againe that communion which they haue one with an other in CHRIST as one an others members . This their suspension then being a publick ●emouing of notorious offenders from the communion of Christ , and from al benefite of his death : From the communion of the Church , and from al interest of the Saincts , We would knowe of him what it lacketh of excommunication , and what excommunication is more ? If he say that the suspended are not repelled from the ministrie of the worde , and prayers of the Church as th'excommunicate are ; We would then know of him where he hath learned to receiue such to the communion of the ministrie or anie actions of the Church , that are repelled from al communion and fellowship with Christ and his Church . Or how dare he vndertake to offer vp their prayers in this estate vnto God , whom for their notorious sinne and impenitencie he hath repelled from the communion of Christes bodie and bloode ? Thincketh he that Christ can be a Priest for anie at the golden Altare to offer or receiue the ince●se and odoures of their prayers , vnto whom he refuseth to be a sacrifice at the brazen Altare ? Or hath he not some Popish conceipt of more holines in the outward elements of the breade & wyne in this Sacrament , then there is in the fellowship of the holie prayers and administration of Gods worde in the Church ? els whie should he more repel for notorious sinne & wickednes from this Sacrament , then from the communion of the prayers and ministrie of the Church ? Our Sauiour Christ doth commaund that when the sinne is publick & brought Math 18. 17 vnto the Church , ● Cor. 5. them if the offender heare not the Church but remain impenitent , ● Timo. 5. 21 he should without delaye or partialitie be cut off and caste out as a withered branche , Iohn . 15. 6. and be deliuered vnto Satha● for the humbling of his flesh , that the spirit might be saued in the daye of the Lord . The parish Priest in the Church of England insteade of excommunication doth suspend such notorious wicked and impenitent from the Table of the Lorde , yet admitteth he them stil to the prayers and ministrie of the Church in this estate , and holdeth them stil members as before . The Lord saith that excommunication when the sinne is publicke and the offender obstinate , is the only remedie that we can administer for the salvation of the partie , and the preservation of the whole Church . The Church of England saith that Excommunication is to rough and seuere to cut him quite off , and caste him quite out at once , and therfore hath deuised this temperate & middle course to cut him half off , and caste him half out . Is not this to iudge their owne wayes equal and the Lords wayes vnequal ? Is it not to esteeme themselues more merciful , iust , and wise then the Lord himself ? Ells would they not say that Excommunication were to rough when the sinne is notorious , and the offender obstinate : Ells would they not in place of excommunication bring in their owne deuised Popish Suspension . Wherby , besides that they controle God and breake his commandement in sparing , Leu 20. 4. 5 where they should smite & cut off , Nomb. 35. ●3 ▪ 34. and in suffring , when they should caste out , they furder bring the whole Church into the contagion of these sinnes , and into the iudgment & wrath of God for the same ; Ier. 3. 1 if so be it be true that is written , that a litle of such leauen maketh sower the whole iumpe , 1 Corin. 5. 6 or that the wrath of God for such offences burneth-against the whole Church . Moreouer it would be knowen of this discipliner this suspender , in what estate we might esteeme & hold this notorious wicked person thus suspended , whether as a brother , or as an heathen . If a brother , how may he then be repelled from the communion with Christ and his Chu●ch ? Whie should he being a member , hauing made profession of his faith , and not yet excommunicate , be denied those heauenly comforts & helpers of his faith ? If he be not to be held a member , whie is he not then according to the commandement of God publickely caste out , that al men might know how to esteeme of him , and how to walke towards him ? For surely except it were the Popes purgatorie we neuer hearde of such a middle meane estate as this ▪ Neither euer in Christes Testament haue we read of such a sensure as this idole suspe●sion they vse . Neither , for anie thing by him alleadged , can we perceiue anie warrant that the Priest may in this maner by his sole aucthoritie reiect anie from the communion table . It followeth not , because he is to looke that he giue not holie things to doggs , to beware of publick offence , and that he bring not the holie mysteries into contempt , that therfore of his sole aucthoritie he may repela●ie from the Sacrament , that hath before receiued yt . 1 Corin. 4. ● The meanes for him to auoyde offences , to preserue his ministeri● from contempt , Hebr. 3. 2 is to kepe the commandements of God . The Lorde hath commanded that when anie , that is caled a b●other , faleth into open sinne , and remaineth obstinate and hardened therin , so that he refuseth to heare the Church , that such an offender in open Congregation by the whole Church be caste out , deliuered to Sathan in the name of our Lorde IESVS CHRIST . No where is there in all Christes Testament anie commandement that the Minister of his sol● aucthoritie should reiect anie from the communion of Christ & of the Church , especially in this conterfeite maner . The way then for the ministrie to auoyde offence , to preserue the holy mysteries from contempt , is to cause the Church according to the commandement of God to reiect & caste out such offenders & wicked persons : so shal he be sure not to deliuer the holy things of God vnto doggs . Yea if the Church should refuse to caste them out , then ought he to staye his ministerie , and not to communicate with other més sinnes , or in this estate to execute the ministerie of Christ vnto them whilest they refuse to obey Christs voyce . But instead hereof this sacrilegious Priest & his compaignions are not afraide to prostitute & sel the bodie & bloude of Christ to the open prophane , notoriously wicked , skorners , and contemners , for their wage , offrings , tithes &c. thus trampling the Sonne of God vnder their feete , and compting the bloode of the Testament a common thing . What florish soeuer they may seeme to make with this their wooden dagger of suspension ( which rather manifesteth their follie and presumption , than anie waye cleareth them of this sacriledge ) great is their presumption in that they take vpon them this absolute power ouer the whole Church and ouer the Table of the Lord , to repel whom they liste of their owne sole aucthoritie from the communion of CHRIST and of his Church , wherof they are but Ministers and perticular members in the best accompt , and not Lords & sole rulers . And yet greater is their presumption in that they dare thrust out the holie ordinance of God ( namelie publick Excommunication ) and in place therof set vp their owne deuised idole suspension ; which what kinde of censure it is , may appeare by that which hath bene said . Yt hath no foundation or warrant in CHRISTS Testament , but possesseth the place of that yt is not , namely , of true excommunication , therfore yt must needes be that idole instrument of that foolish shephearde , ●ach. 11. which the Lorde setteth ouer those sheepe with whom he hath disanulled the couenant .

The aucthoritie of their Portesse their seruice-booke , wil no way iustifie either them or yt . The abhominations of that booke haue bene a little touched , yet is not this wretched man ashamed to stand vnder that monstruous idole , and to professe that all the Ministerie of England vse that booke in the publick prayers , and administration of & prohibition from the Sacraments . The vanitie and follie of this idole suspension most plainely appeareth vnto al men by the litle good it doth in anie of these Parrishes where al prophanenes and iniquitie stil aboundeth . The Bishop , his Chauncelor , or Commissary may with one worde of their mouth heale the greatest wounde the Parrish-Priest can make with this Suspension , whatsoeuer Mr. Parson saye . They haue power to absolue anie that he bindeth ; and how cheape their absolutions are , is not vnknowen to anie whore master in al the Parrish . The Bishop hath power to make and to depose Ministers at his pleasure ; he hath power ouer the whole ministration ; he prescribeth howe , when , to whom they shal administer . What truth then is in these wordes that the Bishop cannot take away that power which their seruice-booke giueth them , when he may absolue the partie , disanul the suspension , depose the Minister &c. In that he saith the Bishop is but a Minister and no Lord ouer their faith and conscience , The same will euerie Popish Priest say of their soveraigne Lorde the POPE , to preserue the dignitie of their ministerie : The POPE writeth himself but the seruant of the seruants of God . What Lordlie authoritie the Bishop hath & exerciseth , and in what seruile subiection the Priestes & all the Parishes stand vnto their Courtes & iurisdiction , shal hereafter more appeare when we come to the discussing of those poyntes . In the meane while we willingly assent vnto Mr. GIFFARD , that the christian reader shall iudge whether their seruice-booke be not a fit Portesse for such Priestes , and this suspension a fit toole for such worckmen . Still affirming euen with wonder that if the iudgmentes of God were not vpon their right eye and vpon their right arme , they might perceaue how their Lordes the Bishops dresse them , and how this weapon they allowe them wanteth both edge and poynte &c.

Thus hauing finished his answeare to our assumption , he procedeth to a former answeare where he denied the Consequence . That where wicked prophane men are receiued into & reteyned in the bozome of the Church , there the couenant is disanulled with them , and they are no longer Godes people , but a false antichristian Sinagogue . To disproue this , he alleadged that there were but fewe true worshippers that frequented the Temple amongst multitudes of prophane & vngodly men . To this he now addeth the examples of the Church at Corinth and of the seuen Churches in Asia &c. We before answeared & stil answeare , that there is no comparison betwixt , or Argument to be drawen from those Churches which were rightly gathered & established , and these confused Bibilonish Synagogues of theirs . The Israelites were a peculiar separated people vnto the Lorde from the worlde . The people of these other Churches were wonne , caled , and gathered vnto CHRIST by the preaching of the Gospel , euery one entred into the Church by the voluntarie profession of his owne faith . No vncircumcised or Gentile might enter into the Temple to offer any gift there . All , nor yet the greater part of the Citie of Corinth , nor of these other parts of Asia were not receiued into the Church as members ; But here in their Church of England al the whole land is receiued in , and that immediatly from open idolatrie without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith by the people in perticular , yea without the preaching of the Gospel going before to call them vnto the faith . Therfore in these reasons he but beggeth the question , and assumeth that which he ought to proue , Namely , That these multitudes of all the prophane & al sorts of wicked persons , were sometymes rightly gathered vnto and entred couenant with the Lorde , hauing the true ministrie & gouernement of CHRIST set ouer them , and nowe being fallen into some sinnes are not cast out but stil retayned in their Church . This if he had donne , then had there bene some cause that he might haue brought against vs th' examples of these Churches . Then should not we haue needed to haue shewed him his follie twise . Yet this if he had donne ( the contrarie wherof is manifest to al that remember the beginning of her Maiesties raigne , or but behold the present estate in the same , or rather in more confusion , sinne being more encreased ) Yet then we should easily haue put difference betwixt those Churhes that amended at the Apostles admonition , and these which reiect all the rules & ordinances ecclesiastical of CHRISTS Testament as pernitious and intollerable to th' estate of this land , and persecute al such as admonish them of , and will not partake with them in their idolatrie & sacriledge .

WE also in our former writing shewed him how the faithfull seruants of God in the idolatrous dayes of Kinge ACHAS , MENASSE , AMON , IEHOIAKIM &c : refrayned from the Temple , being so polluted and defiled , and mixed not themselues with the wicked in idolatrous worship . This Mr. GIFFARD confesseth to be true , and that it was theire duetie so to doe . But he saith we do not argue whether the godly did ioyne with the wicked in idolatrie , but whether the wicked were suffred and did ioyne with the godlie in true worship . To the question we haue aboue spoken : Only this by the waye we drawe from his owne confession , That if the godly in those dayes did wel in separating from & not communicating with the wicked in those times of publick idolatrie , then cannot we be blamed which separate & withdrawe our selues from these prophane assemblies , where such abhominable idolatrie and sacriledge is publickly vsed and enforced , as we haue aboue proued ; and thus are we by him cleared and iustified , Againe we convince him of his owne mouth thus , If the faithfull did well in those tymes to withdraw ▪ and separate themselues from the wicked in their idolatrie which then was publickly set vp , Then was not the publick estate of the Iewes in those tymes of vs to be held the true Church of God . For the godly maie at no tyme separate from the true Church of God , nor repayre vnto the false Church . And thus by himself is an end put at once to all his cauils wherbie he hath endeuored to prooue the Iewes in these most corrupt tymes to be the true outwarde church of God , and to accuse vs of heresie that affirme , where such heynous transgressions are obstinatly defended & persisted in by the whole Church , there the Couenant ( vnto the iudgment of the faithful ) is disanulled , there the faithful may not communicate . And verie ignorant is Mr. Giffard if he thinck that the wicked and prophane may either be receiued into the Church , or retayned in the Church as members . The wicked & prophane which were neuer entred into the Church , may & ought to be caled to heare the ministrie of the worde of God in the Church , as the meanes wherbie they may be caled vnto the faith , and so vpon their profession be receiued as members into the fellowship & communion of the Church . But vntil they make open & voluntarie profession of their owne faith & obedience , they cannot be receiued as members , or haue communion with the Church . Then vntil Mr. Giffard proue that the prophane multitudes and open wicked which neuer made anie voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience , may be receiued as members into the Church , he cannot iustifie these Parish assemblies of England , or convince vs . Furder we graunt , that wicked men , such as fal away from their profession and obedience , shal daylie arise in the church , ells there should be no cause of Excommunication . But when their sinne is publicke , then ought the Church to censure it , and if they be founde obstinate , to caste them out ; ells were there no vse of Excommunication . We graunt also , that the Church sometymes of negligence , delaying in due tyme to caste out such wicked , is notwithstanding ( if they amend vpon admonition ) to be held the true Church of God . And this our aduersarye himself Pag. 56. acknowledgeth that we confesse , although now forgetting himself ( his heart being fraught with malice ) he bursteth foorth in the gall therof , accusing and sclandering vs to hold these heresies . That where any wicked and open sinners worship together with the Church as members of the Church / there the Couenant is disanulled with the whole Church . Againe / that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the Gospell / they be not only vtterly voyde of fayth which offende / but also all they that worship together with them ( though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes ) are fallen from the Couenant . Thirdlie that we make the stablenes of Gods Couenant to depend vpon the worckes of men / and not of the free grace and mercie of God . How could this accuser drawe these heresies from this assertion ? It is the Church of CHRIST which hath the power to Excommunicate though it fault much by negligence in executing the same . Doth not the expresse contrarie herein appeare ? How can he then reconcile these chardges of his vnto this proposition of ours ? Or can he produce any one sentence that euer we wrote or spake conteyning such odious doctrines as these ? Yf not , these heresies must stil retourne to his owne throate , as to the sepulchre from whence the sprange ; these chardges must remayne vpon his reckoning & not vpon ours .

WE hold that the open prophane and wicked , such as were neuer caled vnto the faith , cannot be receiued into the Church as members , before they make open and voluntarie profession of their owne faith and obedience . He that hath from the beginning distinguished light from darcknes , hath alwaies made difference and separation betwixt the world & the Church , caling the one the Sonnes of God , the other the daughters of men ; preseruing the one in his Arcke , drowning the other in the floode : he chose and separated to himself out of the whole world one peculiar Nation and people to be his visible Church , to whom no prophane which made not profession of the same faith might be admitted or ioyned in their worship . The worde Ecclesia , or Church , we knowe to be a companie caled forth from the world , as were CHRISTS Disciples , and the faithfull in all places at the first gathering of the Church . Againe we hold that such as are dulie entred into the Church falling from their profession , and after due admonition remaine obstinate and hardened in their sinne , ought by the Church to be excommunicate : And if the Church being admonished & stirred vp vnto their duetie refuse to obey & execute the commandement of God , that then vnto the faithfull it ceaseth to be the true Church of God , and ought to be auoyded vntil they repent . The Church of CHRIST must euer be obedient vnto CHRISTS voyce , which voyce when they openlie despise & wilfully resist , they are a companie of rebells & not a companie of Sainctes . When they fal away from the faith , they fal away from the Couenant of God ; when they obstina●lie persist in sinne & wilfully despise Gods voyce , they fal away from the faith . Faith belieueth , reuerenceth , and obeyeth Gods worde so far as yt is reueled vnto them , and neuer wilfully despiseth or reiecteth anie anie part of the same . God can neuer be seuered from his worde ; they that despise & reiect Gods worde , despise & reiect God himself . Christ ruleth and reigneth by the scepter of his owne worde , they that are not subiect vnto , but wilfully disobey that word , are not subiect vnto Christ , haue not him a Kinge , but a Iudge ouer them . Seuere lawes & iudgments are set downe in God his worde against presumptuous sinne , yea against al sinne wherof they denie to repent . God hath executed these iudgments vpon the Angels that sinned , vpon the original world , vpon the Nation of the Iewes : Neither wil anie vayne titles of Church , Couenant &c. excuse or deliuer them ( being founde in the like transgressions ) from the like iudgments . God is iust , & his iudgments are alike pronounced & executed against al , as against one , being founde & wilfully remayning in the transgression of his lawe . Nowe then whilest we conclude , that where the people were neuer rightly caled vnto the faith or gathered vnto CHRIST , and orderly ioyned together in Christ , But multitudes of prophane & al sortes of wicked persons , idolators , Atheists &c , euen the whole land without any choice , any separation , receiued into their Church as members , without any voluntarie profession of their owne faith , that in this estate they cannot be esteemed the true planted Churches of CHRIST , With what conscience or truth can this vngodly man herevpon defame & divulge vs to hold this heresie , that where corrupt maners breake forth in those that professe the gospell / they be not only voyde of fayth which offend / but all they also which worship together with them ( though neuer so much grieued at their sinnes ) are falen from the Couenant . How can he liken these rowtes of prophane Atheists and wicked persons of the world to the faithful seruantes of CHRIST in his Church , or compare their open wickednes ( which they commit even with greedines ) to the faultes & eskapes of frailety or negligence in the Sainctes ? Againe whilest we affirme , That where open obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne , whether yt be in the whole Congregation or in any perticular member , there that Congregation or that member cannot by vs be iudged faithfull or within the outward Couenant vntill they repent , with what feare of God or shame of men can this man publish vs to hold , that where any open grosse sinne is committed by anie / and they stil through ignorance or negligence are suffred in the Church / there the Couenant to be disanulled with the whole Church : And so we to fall into this heresie . To make the stablenes of God his Couenant not to depend vpon mercie and free grace promised and bownde with an oathe / but vpon our worckes / yea vpon the worckes of other whom we must iudge .

THis heresie after he himself hath deuised in our name , he procedeth to confute yt with manie wordes , shewing the stability of Gods promises , the greatnes of Gods mercie , that remembreth his Couenant in his greatest indignation & wrath , as also the smale beginnings and daylie growth and proceadings of our sanctification in this life . As though we euer doubt or denied that the Lord our God his couenant was made , established , and preserued vnto vs in his CHRIST only without any worckes or merite in vs , present or to come , to deserue or to retaine his fauour the least minute . Alas our miserable & forlorne estate even from our Mothers wombe before we knowe the Lorde , yea our contynual transgressions & defections euer since we knewe the Lorde ( when we behold our liues in that sparckling glasse of his lawe ) do shew vs that we are not saued be worckes , but by the free grace & mercie of God through faith in CHRIST , and that not of our selues , but by the gift of God whose worcke we are , created in CHRIST IESVS vnto good worckes which God hath fore-ordayned that we should walke in them . But now whilest we acknowledge the whole worcke of our saluation from the beginninge to the end , to be of God and not of our selues , to procede from & to be established vpon his free grace , mere mercy , and loue , and not from or vpon any goodnes in vs fore-seene or subsequent : Yet make we not therby the grace of God and his holy spirit which he hath giuen to al his elect , to be idle , vayne , or fruictlesse in any of them , but to regenerate , chaunge , enlighten and sanctifie them , to bring all their affections into , and to keepe them in the loue & obedience of the truth . By the profession of which truth they are knowen & receiued as members of the visible Church , made partakers of the commune comfortes & couenant of the Saincts . From which profession when they fall away , and will not be reduced by the voyce of the Church or renued by repentance , but remaine obstinate & hardned in their sinnes , then are they by the commandement & power of CHRIST to be cut off as withered branches , to be cast out from the fellowship of the saincts , and all interest in CHRIST , to be deliuered vnto Sathan &c. The same rules , faith , saluation , iudgments we haue aboue shewed to belong vnto al and vnto euerie one , vnto al as vnto one being founde in the same faith , or in the same transgressions . Now then whilest the whole Congregation or anie member therof shall remaine hardened in sinne , deni●ng to obey Christes voyce , refusing to repent , who can say that this Church or man in this estate , can by vs ( which iudge & see but according to the rules of the worde ) be affirmed & held the true Church of Christ within the outward Couenant , when Christ himself commandeth vs to deliuer them vp to Sathan in his name , to haue no fellowship with them ? This cannot be donne of vs vnto any , whom we may affirme within the outward couenant . God his secret election & councels wherin he hath determined from before al worlds who shal be saued , how far the faithful shal be tryed & fal , and when he wil raise them againe , belonge not vnto vs to iudge of . Deu. 29. 29 Onley this is most sure , they that thus fal away & are hardened , are not of vs to be held & esteemed within the outwarde Covenant , or receiued , vntil they as publickly repent . How then can this wicked sclāde●er drawe this gracelesse collection & damnable conclusion from this holie doctrine , That where obstinacie is ioyned vnto publick sinne , there the outward Covenant is broken , no communion to be held vntil repentance , be made , Therfore we holde that the stablenes of Gods Couenant with his Church dependeth vpon the worcked of men . Because we say that God sanctifieth al that he saueth , Therefore we hold salvation by workes . Because we hold that faith which is without fruictes to be deade & worthles , Therefore we hold salvation by workes . Because God requireth obedience of al his seruants that enter into or remaine in his house , and commandeth them to haue no ●ellowship with anie , longer then they contynue in the same fayth & obedience , Therfore we make the stablenes of Godes Covenant to depende vpon our workes , yea vpon the workes of others whom we must iudge . What heretick or peruerted spirit could more highlie abuse & deface the holy doctrines of Christ ? Is Mr. Giffard a teacher of the Church of England , and cannot yet put difference betwixt the worcke of our salvation by Christ for vs , & the worke of Gods holy spirit , the fruicts of Gods grace in vs ? That cannot put difference betwixt obedience & mercie , but that he wil make the worck of Gods grace to abrogate Gods grace ? That cannot discerne betwixt the secret election of God & Christes visible Church ? betwixt the temporarie iudgments of Christes Church according to the rule of Gods word , and the final doome of God in his determinate councel ? Thus not knowing what either Gods Covenant , Christes Church , the communion , or excommunion therof meaneth , this impious man vpon these dotages seeketh to convince vs of his surmized heresies , because we blame & forsake these Babilonish confuse assemblies , where al sortes of prophane and wicked are gathered together without faith or order , bownde , sed , and suffred together in al impietie , mischief , and licentiousnes , without censure or controlement , vnto whome he for the wage of Balaam is powred forth , and most sacrilegiously selleth them his pretended Sacraments for their two pennie shot or offring .

HE laboureth to defend this sacriledge & confusion by th' examples of other Churches vnder the Lawe & vnder the Gospel . He beginneth with the estate of the Church vnder Moses , where the rebellious Israelites whose carkases fel in the wildernes , of whom the Lorde sware that they should not see his rest ; yet were not cast out of th' assemblie nor separated , so longe as they liued , nor their seed reiected . So that he still beare in minde that he but beggeth the question so ofte as he compareth these confuse prophane assemblies ( that were neuer rightly gathered vnto nor established in the faith ) vnto true Churches , vnto this place we answeare . That he moste ignorantlie & boldlie affirmeth an vntruth . We reade Exod. 33. after the Israelites had made their Calf and committed idolatrie , that Moses both did execution vpon the chief Idolators , and with-drewe his tent , and separated from the rest vntil they were reconciled vnto the Lorde . Furder we reade that vpon publick notorious transgressions the Lorde executed publick iudgments sondrie tymes , wherby the chief were taken away , the rest brought to repentance Numb . 12. & 14. 39. and 25. and 21. 6. 7. We reade of separation from those of Corathes conspiracie &c Numb. 16. 21. 24. 26. verses . We reade also Numb . 12. that Miriam was separated out of the hoste vntill she was healed . Likewise we reade of sondrie perticular iudgments for perticular transgressions . As for breaking the Sabaoth , for blaspheming &c Num. 15. Whereby his impudencie is convinced . But nowe if it were graunted him ( then which nothing can be more vntrue ) that these multitudes of prophane rebells were not separated out of the hoste , yet except he can proue that they were receiued during these sinnes vnto the Tabernacle of the Congregation ( which he can neuer shew , because it were so directlie against those lawes prescribed vnto and by Moses ) yt can help him nothing . The wicked may remaine in the common wealth , which yet ought to be caste out of the Church . In that he alleadgeth the seed of the wicked were not reiected ; we first answeare , that we find an outwarde repentance made by the offenders in the places aboue recited . Furder we find that circumcision ceased al the tyme they traveyled in the wildernes vntill they came to Gilgal . 40. yeeres . Iosh. 5. Wherfore this example nothing helpeth their wilful sacriledge in the Church of England . As to the other tymes when idolatrie was publickly set vp by the kinges of Iuda ; Ahas , Manasses , Amon , Iehoiachim , Zedechiab we haue alreadie proued that they were not in that estate the true visible Church of God , Isa. 59. and that those faithful amongst whom the Lord preserued his Church ; Ezek. 8. neither might neither did communicate with them in their publick worship and idolatrie : Ier. 7. Which those places of Isay , Ieremias , & Ezechiel doe euidently proue both in manifesting the sinnes of those tymes , and taking awaye all vaine titles and pretextes ; shewing that the name of Temple , Couenant , Ierusalem &c could no more aualye them , then the Arck at Shilo and the like titles did them in the tyme of the Iudges . The Prophet Ieremiah in his lamentations doth no where iustifie their publick estate so much as euerie where lament the desolation of Sion , which name may much rather be vnderstoode of the former prerogatiues and dignity of that nation , place , and people which were chosen and separated to the Lordes seruice and worship , then of that most corrupt estate of that sinful generation . As to the tymes after their returne out of captiuitie when they mixed themselues with the heathen and brake the Sabaoth , we reade they made notable repentance when they were admonished Ezra . 10. Nohem . 9. and 13. So that these tymes verie euil fit Mr. Giffard .

Fvrder if we come to the tyme that our Sauiour was exhibited in the fleshe , ●uk. 1. 6. & 2. 25. we reade at the tyme of his birth of sundrie iust & holie men both Priestes and others , and how al thinges were performed by them according to the lawe of the Lorde . But afterwardes when they would not be instructed nor reformed by our Sauiour Christ , but with one consent despised , blasphemed , reiected , and persecuted him , and all that belieued on him ; Then were they not the true Church of God , but the persecuting & malignant Synagogue ; Except Mr. GIFFARD hold not our Sauiour Christ & his Disciples the true Church : Or that there may be two true Churches one opposite vnto an other , ledd by two diuers & contrary spirites : Or that God may be diuided from Christ : Or the Church in Couenant with him without Christ . Also in that he affirmeth , That our Sauiour Christ commanded his Disciples to worship together with them in this estate , to heare the Scribes & Pharasies teach & expounde the lawe , although they taught corruptly & leauened the doctrines therof , though they were hypocrites , blinde guides , couetous , and ambitious , and verie reprobates , yea though some of them were not of the tribe of LEVI , only because they were Ministers & sate in MOSES chayre . What execrable heresies and horrible blasphemies doth this wretched man runne into , whilest he seeketh to iustifie their heynous sacriledge , open idolatrie , and confusion by our Sauiour Christes example ? Doth he not hereby make our Sauiour Christ guiltie of the open breach of Gods lawes , and the destruction of al the people ? Doth not God in as manie places as he commandeth to heare true Prophets , forbid to heare false Prophets , as he commandeth to obey his lawe and commandements , forbid all humane deuises & traditions ? Is there not a prescript lawe Deut. 13. That they ought not to hearken to the wordes of that Prophet that teacheth other doctrine and seeketh to seduce , though he had the power to do miracles & worke wonders ? Doth not SALOMON by the holie Ghost command all the children of the truth not to hearken to th' instruction that causeth to erre from the wordes of knowledge . Prou. 19. 27 ? And againe in the first Chap. of his Song , is not the Church councelled by Christ himself not to staye in the steps of that flocke , but to feede her kiddes aboue the tentes of those Shepheardes ? How plentifull are all the Prophets in this argument Ieremie 23. Ezech. 13. zecha . 13. To which concorde all the Doctrines of the new Testament . Math. 7. 15. and 15 14. and 16. 6. Iohn . 10. 5. Rom. 16. 17. Gal. 1. 8. 1 Tim. 6. 3. 2. Iohn . 10. 2 Peter . 2. 〈…〉 . Was there not also expresse lawes that the Priestes which drawe neare vnto the Lorde should be holie , and not such open reprobates as he now acknowledgeth these to be ? And also that the Lorde had only separated & chosen to himself the tribe of Leui to serue & administer before him in the Tabernacle of the Congregation , N●mb 3. & 18. and that no stranger might presume into that office ? yet is not this blinde guide afraide to affirme , That the Pharasies not being of the tribe of Leui were Ministers , and sate in the chaire of MOSES , and therfore our Sauiour commandeth his Disciples to heare them , were they neuer so wicked of life or corrupt teachers . Math. 23. In which place our Sauiour hauing to deale with the persons of the corrupt teachers , first seketh to reserue the dignitie of his Fathers lawe & ministrie ; then sheweth these present teachers to be degenerate from both , being fallen into all maner of vice , pride , vayne-glorie , hypocricie , sectes , schismes , calling them false teachers & corruptours of the lawe , blinde guides , such as shut vp the kingdome of heauen before men , neither entring in themselues , nor suffring them that would ; deuowring widdowes houses , cunning seducers , making their proselytes the children of Hel like themselues ; Killers and murderers of the seruants of God that are sent vnto them ; so that in conclusion he there leaueth sondrie woes , all the bloode of the righteous , & euen the Maranatha vpon them . Now , is yt likely , or may it without blasphemie be thought that our blessed Sauiour CHRIST would commit his Fathers Lawe & Ministrie vnto these wretches , or the soules of his deare Disciples to be instructed & kept by these murderous blinde guides ? yet these blasphemies doth this wicked man publish , his Ordinarie & all the Cleargie of England allowe & suffer to passe in print . Againe if the Disciples in that place be commanded to heare the Ministerie of the Pharasies , then are they there commanded to obserue all the humane deuises & traditions so contrarie to the lawe of God , which they most zealouslie taught and enioyned , which our Sauiour himself openly brake & reiected ; and gaue often warning vnto his Disciples or them and such like false Prophets , commanding them to take heede of them , teaching them howe to knowe them by their fruictes . Math. 7. 15. 16 willing them to let them alone as the blinde l●aders of the blinde , vsing an argument of the ineuitable peril . If the blinde leade the blinde both shall fal into the ditch . Math. 15. 12. 13. 14. chardging them to beware of the leauen of the Pharasies Math. 16. 6. which leauen verse 12. they found to be the doctrine of the Pharasies . To these if sondrie other places of his conflictes with these Scribes & Pharasies be added , it wil euidently appeare that he withdrewe his Disciples from their doctrines , pronouncing euerie where woes & iudgmentes against them .

That he made also a separation and especiall choise of his Disciples from the wicked people of the Iewes , euidently appeareth by the office and ministerie of Iohn the Baptist. whom he sent as an Heralde before him to prepare his waye , to proclaime his kingdome , to call the people to repentance , and to make readie a people to receiue him , lest when he came he should smite the earth with cursing . Mightely did Iohn refute all these vayne arguments & allagations that Giffard alleadgeth of the seede of Abraham , the outward Couenant , Nation , Temple &c. Shewing them that God was able of stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham ; calling those boasting Pharasies the generation of vipers , shewing them that only those trees that bring forth good fruicte are the plantes that shall stand and growe in the Lordes Orchard , that the other shal be hewen downe and caste into the fire , and that the Lordes axe is nowe laide to the roote : Shewing them that the Messiah of whom they boasted and whom they looked for , should come with his fanne in his hand to clense his barne floore , to preserue his wheat in his granarie , and to burne the chaffe with vnquenchable fire , baptising none but such as confessed their sinnes . The same course toke our Sauiour CHRIST , sending forth his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdome , who receiued and baptized none but such as repented of their euill life , and gaue obedience to their doctrine : these our Sauiour acknowledged , receiued , taught , instructed , guided as his owne peculiar flocke . zech. 11. But al the other ( as the sheepe of distruction ) he gaue ouer to be spoyled and deuoured of their owne rulers , and one of an other , to be guided by those wicked and idoll sheepheardes whose soule abhorred him , and his soule loathed them . Yea how ful a separation there was betwixt these sheepheardes and these flockes , the hostilitie they shewed vnto our Sauiour and his Disciples by excommunicating , persecuting , blaspheming him , and his rounde reprouing them , euerie where in the historie of his life doth appeare . Furder that he communicated not with them in their feastes , offrings , and worship in this their sinne and obstinacie , appeareth as plentifully . He a longe season when the Iewes laid wayte to kill him refrayned Iudea and Ierusalem . At other tymes when he came thither , it was not to keepe the feastes together with them , so much as to take occasion vpon such concurse of people to instruct them , and to call them vnto himself . He sometimes went not at all , sometimes went at the mid-feast , And when he was there he kept not the Paschal together with them before the Temple according to the lawe Deutronomie . 12. 5. Leuit. 17. But he kept yt apart with his Disciples in a priuate chamber : As when there was no publicke assemblies , as in Egipt , or when the Temple was shut or polluted , and the worship corrupted Exod. 12. 2 Chron. 35. yea he kept yt vpon an other daye , namely vpon the 14. of the first moneth according to the lawe , and not vpon that daye the Iewes kept theirs , which was a daye after , as appeareth euidently by the historie . Math. 26. For the Iewes solemne feast or cessation ought by the lawe to haue bene vpon the 15. daye , the next day after the Paschal , vpon which daye they crucified our Sauiour , and kept their feaste vpon the Sabaoth , deferring the Paschal by their tradition one daye longer then the lawe commanded : Leuit. 2. 4. 5. 6. Numb . 28. 17. by all which reasons , circumstances , and places , it is euident that our Sauiour and his Disciples did not communicate with , but withdrewe from the Iewes and their worship in this their sinne and obstinacie . By whose example this great Clearke Mr. GIFFARD hath endeuoured to confute the Brownistes of heresie , and to prooue that the open wicked and prophane may be kept in the Church and communicated with , and yet neither the Church therefore cease to be a true Church , nor the faithfull which together with these prophane ioyne in the worship of God and the Sacraments , be defiled therbie .

Yet to make the matter more sure , he bringeth certaine Churches planted by the Apostles , As the Church at Corinth , and the Churches of Asia . In the Church of Corinth were factions and schismes , corruption in the teachers , negligence in the Gouernours , th' incestuous person suffred , contentions among the people and that vnder heathen Iudges ; They feasted in idoll temple , they prophaned the Supper of the Lorde , they abused spirituall giftes , some denied the resurrection of the deade ; yet the holie Ghost vouchsaueth them the name of the Church of God . Well , what of all this ? Therfore the wicked prophane multitudes which were neuer rightly gathered to the faith , may be receiued as members into the Church . We see no such consequent . The Church of Corinth was orderly gathered by the Apostle vnto the faith , none receiued but such as belieued and made open profession of their faith and obedience , Sainctes by calling . Agayne the Church of Corinth was rightly established into that order , and had such Ministers , Officers , and ordinances , as CHRIST in his Testament had assigned and th' Appostle instituted : so hath not the Church of England , but popish and antichristian , Therfore no comparison thus far foorth betwixt the Church of Corinth and the Church of England . Neither can these faults wherein he compareth the Church of England to the church of Corinth , and wherein it is founde like vnto , or rather far without all comparison to exceede them , make the Church of England the true Church of God . What is yt then this learned man would conclude from thence ? That the open prophane and obstinate wicked may be retained in and by the Church , wittingly and willingly after admonition , and yet that Congregation not cease to be the true Church of CHRIST . This he striueth to proue ; And therfore where it is alleadged that the Church of Corinth repented at the Apostle his admonition , and is by the Apostle himself said to haue shewed them selues pure in that busines . 2. Corinth . 7. he maketh vnto this a double answeare . One , that they were Godes true Church before they repented ; The other , that all did not shewe repentance as appeareth . 2. Corinth . 12. 20. 21. To the first we answeare and neuer denied , That they being rightly gathered vnto the faith and orderly established in the faith ( notwithstanding that grieuous sinnes brake out amongst them ) so long as they despised not admonition and refused not to repent , were to be still held and esteemed as the true Church of CHRIST , who if we confesse our sinnes is faithfull and iust to forgiue vs our sinnes , and to clense vs from all iniquitie . But as we haue often said , this maketh against Mr. GIFFARD , because the Church of ENGLAND was no such true Church before that and wherein these faultes were and are committed . Vnto his second allegation , that all shewed not repentance for the vncleannes , fornication , and wantonnes which they had committed ; We acknowledge it as the Apostle recordeth it to be a great fault in the whole Church , That they did not more diligently search out the sinne , and speedely caste out the sinners that remayned impenitent . Yet was this in the Church but a fault of negligence , and not of anie obstinacye ; they neither contemnded admonition , neither spurned against their admoni●hers . Yet euen this slacknes and negligence the Apostle thus sharplie & seuerely reproueth , threatning ( if they amend not ) to come with a rodde , and with the power of CHRIST against them . He neither iustified nor flattered them in their sinnes , as this false Prophet doth , who hath no better argumentes to pleade for o● iustifie this apostasie and obstinacie of the Church of England , then the greatest sinnes and odious faultes of other Churches . But to such a height & measure is their wickednes encreased , as all the sinnes of all Churches in all ages are too narrowe to couer the bedd of their fornication &c. Neither can those fearefull breaches & lamentable ruines in the Churches of Asia heale the wounde of the Church of England . If God so threatned or menaced those Churches to come and feight against them , to remoue their candle-sticke &c , what shal be the iudgmentes of the Church of England ? what can she expect , whose sinnes so far exceede , which taketh boldnes to contynue in sinne , and pleade for the same from these examples which the Lord hath lefte as monumentes of terror to all posterities . Yet in all these desolations of these Churches can there be no comparison betwixt these barbarous confuse assemblies , and those Churches which sometymes were rightly gathered and established vnto the faith , and into the order of CHRIST : and so all Mr. GIFFARDS labour and paynes herein is lost . Neither will this conclusion followe , That because yt ceaseth not to be a Church by and by where the open wicked are not separated ( because the Church sometimes may fall into such sinnes of ignorance or of negligence ) Therefore the godly are not defiled which communicate with these open wicked in prayers , sacramentes , and other spirituall exercises . Might he not aswel conclude , that because yt ceaseth not to be a Church herevpon , therfore yt is no sinne . But if yt be a sinne in the whole Church , then is the whole Church guiltie of & defiled with that sinne .

NOwe as Mr. GIFFARD laboureth to drawe this conclusion , so striueth he to proue this proposition , That the admission of the open wicked & impenitent to the table of the Lorde doth not defile either the Sacrament or the faithfull receiuers . Herevnto he hath gathered a fewe stale reasons . 1. As that the wickednes of the Minister doth not difile the holy thinges of God : Iudas , Ely his Sonnes , the Scribes & Pharasies were wicked men , yet were the thinges they administered holie . 2. Then that the godly communicant toucheth not the sinnes of others , but the holie thinges of God ; because there cannot be a separation from the wicked in bodie or bodily thinges alwaies : but they which touche not their sinnes obey the commandement Come out from amonge them , separate your selues & touche none vncleane thing . That the blame of receiuing such wicked resteth only vpon such as haue the power of the discipline in their handes , and not vpon priuate members which mourne & lament to see such fowle matters wincked at , which mourners are cleared Ezech. 9.

TO discuse these pointes in perticular would make this discourse ouer long , breiflie therfore this we say . To the first , that difference must be put betwixt hypocrites ( whose wickednes is onlie knowen vnto the Lord ) and such wicked , whose sinne is knowen vnto the Church . The publicke ministrie of secret hypocrits that are rightly caled to a lawful office , and execute their office without fault or blame , is holie , blessed , and profitable to the whole Church ( which can but looke vpon and iudge the outwarde action and estate , and not the hearte and conscience of anie ) yet this their ministerie is vnavayleable to themselues , and maketh to their owne greater condemnation . But where the Minister is detected of , and remayneth obstinate in anie transgression , his ministration is not acceptable to the Lord , neither ought to be suffered or ioyned vnto of the Church . The Lord will be sanctified of all that come neere vnto him . Vnder the lawe he required an holie ministerie to serue in the priestes office without outward mayne or bleamish , lest he defiled the holie thinges of the Lorde ; The offerings of anie other were not acceptable to the Lorde . It is also written that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord , as if they cut off a dogges heade , or offred swynes bloode . They haue nought to doe to declare the Lords ordinances that hate to be reformed , and caste his worde behinde them . The Church ought not onlie to forbid such to administer , but to cast them out of the fellowship , which if the Church neglect and refuse to doe , them are they guiltie of the open or wilful breach of Gods holie ordinances in suffring his holie name and ministerie to be prophaned , yea in ioyning thervnto and reioycing therin . The examples by him alleadged no waye help him . Iudas whilest he remayned with our Sauiour was an hypocrite , his sinnes vndiscoured , yea vncommitted , so longe in that estate his publicke ministerie was lawful , holie , and acceptable vnto others . The ministerie of the Sonnes of Eli ( after their wickednes was publick ) wea abhominable vnto God , to be detested of all the faithful : yet was the sinne of the people verie great , who vpon and for the sinnes of these wicked prestes abhorred the offringes of the Lorde , which were euer to be esteemed most holie , being lawfullie administred , otherwise they are not the offrings of the Lord . The people then ( as nowe ) grewe into Atheisme and all impietie , abhorring all Gods worship , and refusing to be at anie chardge , louing the creatures better then the Creator by seing the great insolency and inreverence of the prestes . Touching the Scribes and Pharasies we haue alreadie said enoughe .

TO his other allegations , that the faithful are not defiled by communicating with the open and obstinate wicked in the Supper of the Lorde and other spiritual exercises , because they touche not the sinne of the wicked but the holy thinges of God &c Surelie this is verie odd diuinitie , contrarie to al the groundes of scripture that we haue read of . We had thought that all the communicantes at the Lordes Table had bene ioyned & commingled together into one spiritual body euen into CHRIST , as manie grapes are there bruzed into one cup , manie graynes into one loafe . Furder we had thought that no obstinate offender whose sinne is publicklie knowen , might haue beene admitted to that holie Table without wilful sacriledge and high prophanation of those holie mysteries , both in all the Communicantes and in the Minister . Leu. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 21. 22 Wee reade in the lawe plentifullie ▪ That the leprous or polluted person defiled whatsoeuer touched him , whether person , vessel , holie or ciuile &c , and that such person on vessel &c remayned vnholie therebie , Chapters . vntil they were clensed according to the lawe . The Prophet Haggai confirmeth the same and saith , Hag. 2. 12. 13. 14. 15 vers . that whatsoeuer holie thing , bread , wyne , or oyle , a polluted person toucheth , yt is made therbie vncleane . The Apostle also sheweth in expresse wordes , That as a litle leauen leaueneth the whole lumpe , so one open vnworthie receiued to the supper of the Lorde maketh all the communicantes ● . Corinth. 5. 6. 7. 8. guiltie , and their reioycing or feast not good before the Lord , likening the whole Church to the lumpe , the wicked person and sinnes kept amongst them to the leauen , their reioycing to the eating of the Paschal &c : Which most direct place this ignorant sacrilegious Priest would put away and falsifie by likening this reioycing here spoken of to a glorying in the sinne of th' incestuous , as though the Church of Corinth had euer bene so beastlie . And by endevouring to separate the elements of the breade and wyne in this Sacrament from their mystical sense , the communicantes that receiue the same together , from their spirituall communion they haue one with an other , the whole Church from the preparation and care they ought to haue both generally and perticularly in administring and receiuing the Sacraments , And hauing thus royled the pure fountaynes , he confowndeth the sense and distinct doctrines of the Apostle , by bringing in certaine instances where the wife , seruant , passenger , vpon some especial dueties and necessities , may be occasion eate ordinarie bread with th' excommunicate . Whervpon he concludeth , that the faithful also may vpon necessitie ( as if the Church wil not caste out the open wicked and impenitent ) communicate with them in the supper of the Lorde . And if so be these faithful mourne and are grieued for this wilful sacriledge of the Minister and the rest of the Church , then they touche not their sinne , but the holie thinges of God , and are cleare Ezechell . 9. because the separation from the wicked cannot alwaies be in bodie , as in the cases by him alleadged of eating common breade with them . But let this cauiller knowe that there is no comparison , much-lesse anie consequence , betwixt the eating common breade , and the eating of the Supper of the Lorde with the open wicked and impenitent . There is no such spiritual mysterie , communion , or commixture in the first , as in the second . Common bread is not forbidden the wicked , but these holie pledges vtterlie are , they ought not to be caste to hogges and dogges . Neither are we forbidden al ciuile conversation so absolutelie with them , as we are all spirituall communion . In the one we see prouision and exception made for duetie and necessitie . In the other there is no such duetie or necessitie , neither anie such prouision and exception mentioned in the Scripture , vntil these Priestes to defend their port-sale and open sacriledge deuised these shiftes . The scripture vtterlie forbiddeth and repulseth the open wicked & impenitent from this holie banquet by more then the Cherubins shaking the edge of a sworde . So far are the open wicked from being admitted to this feaste , as they are to be caste out , to be deliuered vnto Sathan , so far are they to bee kept from all communion with CHRIST and with his Church . But none are to be admitted to this Sacrament , but such as outwardly stand in the faith , and therby ( vnto the iudgment of the Church ) haue fellowship with CHRIST and his members . The verie action or Symbole yt self sheweth this communion with CHRIST , and one with an other . 1. Corinth ▪ 10. 16. and 12. 13. No sophistrie can disioyne the mysterie or signification from the outward elements and action , neither the communion from the participation in this action , so far as we may iudge . 1. Cor. 11. As the vnworthie receiuers are guiltie of the bodie and bloode of the Lorde , so the Church in admitting , administring vnto , and communicating with them , is guiltie of most high sacriledge and prophanation of the holie thinges of God , especially they doing it wilfullie and wittinglie . Now then if they all communicate in this action , and this action deliuered in this maner be sacriledge , how should they not all be guiltie ? Can anie man here say that anie of the Communicantes in this case toucheth not the sinne , but the holie thinges of God , when first in this action they are all spirituallie commingled and ioyned together , then the verie action which they all doe ( as they doe it ) is most highe sacriledge not a touching but an open , ( if not a wilfull ) prophanation of the holie thinges of God ? Can th' aucthoritie of the Church excuse them before God ? Or wil it here excuse them to say they cannot doe with it , because the power of the discipline is not in their handes ? We haue aboue shewed that euerie member hath interest in the power of the Church ▪ And that the power to receiue in and to caste out belongeth to the whole Church , and not to the Presbiterie or anie perticular member of the Church onlie : Neither yet these matters referred to the wil or choise of the Church , but rules prescribed them whom and when to receiue , whom and when to caste out . As vpon publick profession of faith and obedience with desire of ioyning , the Church cannot refuse but must receiue , so vpon publicke sinne and obstinacie ioyned to the same , the Church must then caste out , and cannot retaine without sinne : Which sinne becommeth so much the more heynous when they doe it wittinglie & willinglie , but most of al when obstinacie is added , when the Church wil not be admonished , neither amend . Though euerie private member cannot excommunicate or reforme the publicke actions of the Church , which are donne contrarie to the worde , yet euerie priuate member may & ought to refraine such publick actions , as they see to be contrary to the worde , and to admonish the Church &c. And in so doing they depart not from the Church , neither withdrawe from the Communion , so much as preserue the Church & the communion : Our fellowship must alwaies be in the faith , out of the faith we maie haue no communion with man or Angel in knowen sinne . They that depart from the faith depart from the Church , and breake the communion . We may not followe a multitude or the mighty in euil . It behoueth euerie christian that receiueth to knowe what the action is he doeth , to knowe what he receiueth and howe he receiueth , to knowe by whom and with whom he receiueth . We say not now ( as some in the idlenes of their conceipt coniecture ) that we ought to examine and iudge euerie one that communicateth : No it sufficeth vs if they by outward profession stand stil members , and remaine not conuict and impenitent in anie open sinne knowen to them and to the congr●gation . They must knowe that the Minister that deliuereth is according to the outwarde rules ( so far as they maie iudge ) a lawful Minister of the Gospel , and that the communicantes by outward profession ( so far as they can iudge ) stand in the faith ; Ells can they not discerne what the communion of the Church or the action they doe , is . It wil not suffice or excuse them to saye they mourne and are grieued for the sinnes of the wicked with whom they communicate , and for the sinne of them that should put them from the Sacrament , yea caste them out of the Church , and deliuer them ouer vnto Sathan , for the humbling their flesh , and the preservation of others from the contagion of their sinne , yea of the whole Church from the wrath of God . How should they be said to mourne for the sinne of these wicked , with whom they feast and reioyce in this heauenly banquet ? From whence al sorrowe , and grief , and feare , & despaire or doubt are banished , al teares wiped from their eyes , they being by this Symbole receiued to the communion of Christes bodie and of al the ioyes which he possesseth , hath prepared & reserued for al those for whom he died &c , against whom layeth no accusation , no condemnation , no imputation of sinne . Againe , the mourners he speaketh of which were marcked by the Angel Ezech. 9. did not onlie mourne but crye out against the sinne of the tyme , yea they refrayned the publick worship & the Temple which was so wholy polluted and prophaned , as is described in the 8. Chapter of the same proph●cie , the fierce wrath of God powred forth vpon the whole Citie and Sanctuarie Chap. 9. The glorie of God vtterlie departed from the Temple and Citie Chap. 11. But how should these that communicate & are commingled with these open wicked and vnworthie , and participate and ioyne in the sinne and sacriledge of the ministrie which they see and acknowledge , be said of those marcked mou●ners which refrayned & cryed out against the abhominations of the tyme ? Or how should these e●kape the vengeance of the destroyer ? The seale of God wherwith al CHRISTES servants are marcked and knowen , is , That they that name the name GOD depart from iniquitie . 2. Timoth. 2. 19. Reuel . 14. They may not communicate with the sinnes of others , nor be drawen into the transgression of any of GODS commaundements by an Angel from heauen . Gal. 1. No traditional writings of any man whosoeuer , can defend these errors which tend to the open & wilful prophanation of the holy things of God , to the most dangerous contagion and infection of the whole Church , and to the high prouocation of Gods wrath against them all . What then hath this great clarck gayned by this traditional diuinitie , saue bewrayed his corrupt iudgment & great ignorance of the truth of God , yea even of those principal actions wherof he professeth himself a Minister ? What hath he obtayned or endeuoured by al this discourse to prooue , if not that all these prophane multitudes and rowtes of all sortes of wicked may be receiued into and nourished in the Church as members , even with the holie pledges of CHRISTES bodie & bloode by this idolatrous and sacrilegious ministrie ( for so hauing alreadie proued them we may pronownce them ) made by themselues , labouring to iustifie & approue their Church , ministrie , and ministration in this estate , and most seuerely to censure , blaspheme , and condemne all such as by the word of God reproue them , and for their obstinacie forsake them for the same , thus opening a wide doore to all Athe●sme , wickednes , impietie , sacriledge , and bloodie persecution , as by his next argument which he bringeth for a conclusion of this discourse appeareth ; Which before we come vnto , this for conclusion we insert & rest vpon , That our Sauiour CHRIST hath instituted , that of necessitie there must be at the celebration of his last Supper a lawful Minister of the gospel according to the rules of CHRISTES Testament to deliuer , a faithful people by outward profession to receiue , the pure elementes commanded vsed , and that forme of administration which he and his Apostles prescribed : That except al these concur , there is not the sacrament rightly deliuered , neither maie any christian communicate where he seeth any of these rules broken . So then if Mr. GIFFARD had thus approued his Ministerie , people , ministration by the rules of CHRISTES Testament , and by the euidence , of Gods worde , he should more haue persuaded & convinced vs , Reu. 16. 13. then by al this opprobrie , blasphemie , and rage which he breatheth forth out of the mouth of that DRAGON , Prou. 26. 2. al which nowe add vnto his owne , Deut. 18. 22 and not vnto our iudgments that feare not the curse causeles ; Pro. 24. 24 neither yet the false Prophets threates ▪ whose custome it is to curse them that God blesseth , and to blesse them that God curseth , to iustifie the wicked , and to condemne the iust , Therfore shall he be an abhomination both to God an men , as the Lorde himself hath spoken . As to his bloodie Argument drawen from th' execution of certaine of SAVL his progenie , because Kinge SAVL in his hypocritish and bloodie zeale murdered the Gibeonites , which were yeilded and made slaues vnto them , Iosh. 4. contrarie to the will and commandement of God . Ihosh . 8. Deutronomie 20. 10. 1 King . 9. 20. 21. Our innocencie shal be our defence , and his refutation . If we haue committed or when we shall commit or consent vnto any such crime , we refuse not the like iudgment . In the meane time let all men iudge with what equitie or conscience this Caini●e could thus applie & enforce this example against vs ; And for conclusion , let anie man by the worde of God iudge , whether we that reprooue these their confuse parish assemblies consisting of all sortes of ignorant , prophane , vngodlie ▪ people , worshipping God after an idolatrous maner , and liuing in al disorder & vngodlines &c , Or this mercenarie sacrilegious Priest , that standeth a Minister to all these wicked , deliuering the sacraments vnto them and blessing them with the peace of God &c doe destroy & murder their soules . The scripture is plentiful in this poinct .

THE THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION OR CAVSE OF OVR SEPARATION FROM their assemblies , is . FOR that they haue a false antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them , retained with them , and maintained by them .

AS we haue already shewed that the house of God which is his church , cannot be built or consiste of any other then such chosen , pretious liuing stones as God hath thervnto caled , separated , appointed , namely such faithfull obedient willing people as come vnder CHRISTS conduct , and willingly submit to his gouernment , and cannot consiste of prophane , wicked , vngodly , headstrong , disobedient multitudes , whereon the Whore is said to sit as vpon manie waters : So in like maner can this house , Hebr. 3. this church , this people of CHRIST be built into none other order , Ephes. 4. receiue none other ministrie and ordinances , then CHRIST the owner & builder of the house hath instituted & prescribed in his last wil & testament . We may boldly affirme & conclude that flocke which consisteth of all sortes of wilde & vncleane beastes , not to be the flocke or shepe-folde of CHRIST , in asmuch as these in this estate cannot of vs be iudged to be the shepe of CHRIST . We may also by the same vndoubted reason affirme , that they which stand hierdes to these wilde and vncleane beastes , cannot be said the Lordes shepeherdes of his shepe & lambes . Of what sortes of people these their parish assemblies generally consiste , how they haue bene gathered , builte , stand , and walke in the faith & order of CHRIST , by that which is aboue written may partly appeare , but much more shall to euerie single eye & heart ( wherein is any light ) vpon the furder examination of their present estate & life . That this Aucthor and all the Priestes of the tyme stand hierdes , administring the Sacraments &c , to these prophane multitudes in this ignorance , confusion , and sinne , after that idolatrous superstitious maner aboue-said for their hire or tithes , cannot be denied . What defence this Champion hath made for their publique administration & worship , and how by neuer a worde of God he hath iustified any one of those manifold enormities & idolatries reckoned vp vnto him ; As also how he hath approued the gathering and present estate of their Church , by the greatest apostasies , defections & sinnes of other Churches in other ages , and with what blasphemous doctrines tending to all Atheisme and impietie , we are content to refer to the iudgment of the godly readers . And now being come to the proofe & defence of his owne Ministrie which he exerciseth , and of the whole Ministrie of their Church , instead of CHRISTS Testament he bringeth vs forth a fable out of ESOPE of the asse in the Lyons skinne , and at the first entrance into this discourse in the first page within the space of 24 lynes he convinceth vs with these arguments . That we are prompt & plentiful in false accusations & hereticall opinions which must be admitted for reasons against their Church , worship , ministerie . That we are desirous of glorie , presumptuous , bold , rash , ignorant , not to be encountred with great learning : Sophisters , nay poore artificers and husbandmen are the eauenest matches to dispute with vs : We haue put on the Lions skinne and imagine that all learned men tremble at vs , but they haue espied our long cares . That we impudently sclander and belye the learned , who disdaine to deale with mad frensie : That we are without all care what we speake . &c. Is yt likely that this man hath either care or conscience what he saith , that through his whole booke from the first to the laste worde thus rayleth , inver●th , accuseth , blasphemeth ? Are these the sweetest waters in his fountaine , the best salt he can season vs with ? Or do the Ministers of the Church of England thus vse to improue , rebuke , exhort with al longe suffring & doctrine ? Is this Mr. GIFFARDS countrie diuinitie or vniuersitie learning , or Courtly Chaplen-like behauioure ? He hath a president what a goodly viewe Mr. SOME makes in his colours . If he lighted into some mens handes that would take pleasure to laye open his shame , Mr. SOME & his paynter might giue place in al rayling and vituperie where this man should appeare . But our purpose is not to meddle with his raylinges so much as his reasons , leauing him to answeare for the one , and endeuouring our selues to answeare the other . Yet this we saye , that if this be the course of those great learned the speaketh of , we had much rather be matched with such poore artificers and husbandmen as feare God ( whom he despiseth ) their with these greate Clarkes . Yea we had much rather that they should in disdaine of our ignorance breake their promise in denijng and refusing to conferre with vs , then in this maner grieue the spirite of God in vs by such hellish writinges as this booke of GIFFARD , peruerting the Scriptures , pleading for , defending , and iustifijng the throne of iniquitie , together with all the enormities , idolatrie , and abhominations which flowe from the same , railing , blaspheming , and accusing the truth , and the poore persecuted professors therof , as he doth . Yet to satisfie the reader in this matter which he so confidently denieth , and vrgeth vs so vehemently to make some colourable shewe of , That if he had consulted with his learned bretheren the forewarde Preachers , they would haue councelled him rather to haue vsed his discretion in the pulpit ( where he might feigne what error he lifte , and then with the same breath confute yt in our names ) then by conference , but especially thus by writing to meddle with the defense of these defaults and exceptions taken against their Church , Ministrie , Worship , &c , knowing that the more they are discussed and raued in , the more apparant & odious they wil appeare vnto all men ; especially when they are brought vnto & examined by the light , These two were Mr. FLOVD & Mr. CHATTERTON . which will foorth-with shew of what sorte they are . These two were Mr. FENNE & Mr. EGERTON . That these Preachers had taken this course amongst themselues we knowe certainly by a letter that two of the cheif of them sent vnto vs , deni●ng that conference which they had before promised , because we denyed their Church and Ministrie . After that , two of them being procured to our prison denyed to deale with vs concerning those exceptions we made against their Church & Ministrie , alleadging that they were forbidden by their bretheren to deale with vs in those matters . To be shorte , what ●lls can with any probalitie be coniectured to be the hindrance of the first companie of Preachers that at the first sent vnto vs to knowe the causes of our dislike , promising either to assent , or to shew vnto vs the causes whie they could not , that they vpon the sight of that litle paper , ( wherin we set downe vnto them the causes of our separation from these parish assemblies , as also what we purposed in our owne assemblies ) neuer as yet could be drawen to make any answeare in writing or conference , if not that they perceiued that they were neither able to defend their estate , neither yet had faith to leaue it for feare of persecution & danger . And whatsoeuer this bold champion may pretend , we cannot be persuaded that euer the forewarde sort of Preachers ( that sometime laboured reformation ) euer gaue their consentes to this blasphemous booke of his , except also together with the aucthor therof , they haue made shipwracke of faith & good conscience , and be wholy apostatate & fallen from that smale measure of grace & light they sometimes made shew of ▪ Neither shal those pontifical Prelates his Lordes , their horned Cleargie , or Romish associates the Ciuilianes and Canonistes to whom he is yeilded & ioyned , giue him any thanckes in the end for all the paynes he hath taken to defend their apostatical throne & procedings : which these his writinges are so far from defending & iustifijng as they manifest vnto al men that they cannot be defended or iustified :

TO our present purpose in this 3. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION , yt remayneth that we nowe prooue this Ministrie of the Church of England to be false & antichristian . Which that it may the sooner be donne we are to enquire what kinde of ministrie CHRIST hath instituted and left vnto his Church ? Of which sort if we finde not these , then may we with assurance from Gods owne worde pronownce them false and antichristian . For as there is but one God , one CHRIST , one Spirite , so is there but one true Church , ministrie ministration . CHRIST being ascended gaue vnto his Church Apostels , Prophets , Euangelistes , Pastors , Teachers , Elders , De●cons , widdowes . Eph. 4. The 3. first , Apostes , Prophets , Euangelistes , being instituted but for a time , Rom. 12. hauing finished their ministerie , ceased . For the foundation being now fullie laide , the worde perfectlie exhibited , the gospel throughlie and sufficientlie confirmed and ratified , 1 Corinth . 3 the whole frame of the building set vp and erect , Hebr. 2. and now a most perfect and absolute patterne left vnto all Churches , 2 Pet. 1. to what purpose should there nowe be Apostles to lay the foundation , 2 Timoth. 3 to giue the worde againe , Prophets to ratifie and confirme the same , Acts. 20. 33 . Euangelistes to deliuer and shew the Apostles rules vnto the Church ? Besides that , the Lord hath euidently shewed ( by the ceasing of th' extraordinarie calings and giftes vnto these offices ) that they are nowe perimplished and ceased , as might also by sondrie other testimonies and direct scriptures be proued , if yt were needful in so plaine a poynte . Nowe then there remaine by a perpetual decree these Offices to the ministrie , gouernement , and seruice of the Church . Pastors , Teachers , Elders , Deacons , Relieuers . 1 Corinth . 12 Vnto these distinct offices , Acts. 14. 23 are fit and distinct members dulie chosen and ordayned by each seueral Congregation , 1 Timoth. 3 vpon due proofe according to the manifestation of the spirit in each member so elect , Tit. 3. according vnto the rules prescribed in Christes Testament ; in which offices is required of them that they diligently and faithfully administer , 1 Corin. 4. 2 which whilest they doe , they are honored , obeyed , 1 Thes. 5. 12. 13. prouided for of the flock with al reuerence , care , & loue . Nowe let the ministrie of the Church of England be compared vnto and examined by these rules of Christes Testament , 1 Timo. 5. 17 in their office , entrance , administration , maintenance . In al which we before affirmed them to varie from the Testament of Christ , and to haue no place or mention there , requiring of this Aucthor some proofe of his ministrie in these pointes by the worde of God . In steade wherof wee haue his bare affirmations to approue their ministrie , and his most bitter raylings to convince and perswade vs after his accustomed maner , which euil either satisfie vs or approue themselues to all mens consciences such as they would be thought to be . We had thought our demaunde herein had bene so iust and reasonable , as no true Church or Minister could or would haue denied . And wonder that in this flourishing estate of their Church which ouer-floweth with so great learning , aboundeth with so manie writers , that not one of them should vndertake to approue the ministrie of their Church directlie , by the rules of Gods word in their Office , Entrance , Administration , Maintenance . Wherbie they might iustifie themselues of such crimes wherof they are chardged ▪ convince their aduersaries & al gaine-sayers , and put an end to these controversies and debates after a most christian and peaceable maner , much better beseeming the Gospel and the ministers therof , then prisons , iudgment seates , sclaunders , accusations , blasphemie , which hitherto haue bene theire only Arguments . But now howsoeuer they be loth & will by no meanes be entreated or vrged to this sober course & direct proof by writing , or vnto anie christian free conference where these matters might be discussed and decided by the worde of God peaceably , Let vs yet ( seing occasion is here administred , and as our present purpose wil permit ) shew some causes of our dislike whie we iudge them not the true Ministrie of the Gospel , by shewing such apparnt discrepance , as may declare vnto all men that they were neuer cast in that moulde . And this but by a cursorie & briefe examination , leauing the more exact discussing & perfect demonstration of the forgerie , abuses , and enormities of this Antichristian ministrie , to the furder diligence of others endued with greater measure of giftes and iudgment .

WE finde the permanent offices which CHRIST hath instituted for the ministrie of his Church few in number , easilie recited , diuided , and distinguished . The offices ( as hath bene said ) are these , of the Pastor , Teacher , Elder , Deacon , Relieuer . These are diuided into Ouerseers ( whom wee call Bishops Episcopoi ) and into Deacons . Phil. 1. 1 The Ouerseers are againe diuided into teaching & gouerning Elders : A●ts . 20. and into such Elders as only by office attend vnto Gouernement . R●m. 12. 8 Of the first sort are the Pastor and Teacher . 1 T●●o . 5. 17 Of the second such Elders as are elect to the ouersight & gouernment of the Churche . These offices are distinguished one from an other in their seueral functions by the Apostle Roma . 12. and in sondrie other places of scripture . The Pastor to attend to exhortation . The Teacher to doctrine . Act. 6. The Elder to gouernement . The Deacon to collect and distribute the benevolence & contribution of the Saincts . ● Timoth. 5 The Relieuers to attend to the sicke , impotent &c. But the offices of the Ministerie of the Church of England wee finde so manie & intricate , as are harde to be recited , diuided , or distinguished , and require greater skil then I haue therevnto . Yet ( so my simple conceipt preiudize not others of better iudgment ) for memorie sake and to avoide prolixitie , they may thus bee diuided and recited at once . First more generallie into Reigning gouerning . 2. Collegiate or idle , and 3. Seruile or mercenary . The Reigning or gouerning may be diuided into 1. Bishops their assistants and substitutes . 2. Certaine Commissioners and certaine . 3. delegate Doctors &c. These Bishops may be diuided in 1. Arch-Bishops . 2. Palatine Bishops , and. 3. ordinarie Lord Bishops . Nowe the Arch-Bishops may be diuided againe into the .1 . Primate Metropolitane of al England , and the 2. Metropolitane of the North. partes . The Raining ministerie then of the Church of England as I suppose vnder correction and better information , may be summed into these offices of Arch-Bishops , Lord Bishops , Chauncelors , Commissaries , Arch-Deacons , High Commissioners , Ciuile Doctors with their Courtes and attendants , Aduocates , Proctors , Registers , Notaries , Purseuants , Somoners . The idle or Collegiat Ministrie as I take it are partlie in the Colleges of the Vniversities As Masters of houses , Presidents , Bowsers , Fellowes : Or more generallie according to their degrees Doctors of diuinity , Bachelers of diuinity , Masters of Arte , Bachelers of arte , Clarkes . These hitherto without certaine office , place , or chardge in the Church . And partlie in their Cathedral Churches . As L. Bishop , Deane , Sub-deane , Prebendaries , Cannons , Peticannons , Gospellers , Pistelers , Singing men , Singing boyes , Vergiers , Sextines . The seruile Ministrie is diuided into these seueral offices . Of Parson , Vicar● , Curai● , Deacon , or half-Priest , Church-warden , Sideemen , Quest-men , Parrish Clarck . But now to distinguish or describe all these offices according to their seueral orders and cannons , to shewe their original , processe , and contynuance in their seueral tymes , occasions , and circumstances , were not onlie a labor to me intricate and vnachiueable , but to the reader tedious and vnprofitable , as withdrawing them from the certaine and vnvariable rules of Gods worde , to the vncertaine and variable reportes of men . Sufficeth it therfore that we finde not in al the booke of God anie such titles , names , dignities , offices , giuen or to be giuen to the Ministrie of Christes Gospel : Reu. 13. 1. & 17. 3. but we finde them rather those names of blasphemie written vpon those heades of the Beast . For if it be blasphemy for anie mortal man to receiue , assume , or chalenge those names , titles , dignities , or offices which are peculier and proper to CHRISTES sacred person alone , Then are these chief Ministers of the Church of England , these Arch-Bishops , & Lord Bishops highlie guilty of blasphemie , that chalendge & assume vnto themselues , some one of them to be the Prima●e of al the Bishops in England & Ireland , an other to be an Arch-Bishop , a Metropolitane , others to be Lord Bishops , the leaste of these Anakims to reigne ouer I knowe not how manie hundreth Churches & Bishops . That Christ is the onlie Primate and Arch-chiefe Bishop and Prince of Pastors the Apostle Peter giueth euident testimonie 1 Epist. 5. Cap. 4. vers● as also the holie Ghost Hebr. 13. 20. That Christ is the onlie Lorde Bishop euery where appeareth in the scriptures , and that al other christian Bishops are but seruants & fellowes , is fownd Iohn . 13. Luk. 22. Mat. 20. Mar. 10. where Christ himself in expresse words with vehement chardges forbiddeth euen his Apostles , I say not such blasphemous titles onlie , but all other wordlie titles of honor , all ciuile iurisdiction and secular power ouer others , and such arrogancie and presumption one ouer an other as these pontificall Prelates and Lordlie Bishops vsurpe , most directly , wittingly & willingly against the commandment of Christ . Which they thincke to put away & abrogate by a second lawe of the Prince & Parlament , who ( they saye ) haue cast these honors & titles vpon them , and therfore neither can they refuse , neither may others blame them for this , except they shew themselues disobedient to her Matie. and enemies to the State . We wil answeare these their criminations of state matters at anie tyme before competent iudges . In the meane while let them answere vs in good conscience whether they iudge it lawful for Princes to giue , or at anie hand for themselues to receiue such titles , dignities &c , as Christ hath so expresly & often forbidden them . And whether their holy Father the Pope might not so iustifie his exa●tation and supremacie by the Emperors donation , the confirmation of manie Nations , States & Councels through manie ages . If it be here alleadged that these titles which we so stand vpon , are but ciuile accomplements giuen them by the Prince , but trifles , no matters of substance to preiudice their ministrie , they being preachers of the worde ; Yet must they acknowledge them inhibited verie seuerely & often by Christes owne mouth . And therfore they by this allegation laye the blame vpon Christ that forbad them , and not vpon vs that hold them vnlawful & intollerable in the ministrie . Furder , if they be merely Civile , let them then answere whie they are & how they may be thus ioyned to ecclesiastical persons & offices . And if they be such trifles , whie then these graue Fathers these holy men so violently contend with , and bloodely persecute their bretheren for them . And this also let them consider & acknowledge , that these triffles or titles they vsurpe are prooued most execrable blasphemies , names written vpon the heades of the Beast , and not vpon the members or Minister of Christ . And in their best allegation , that they are directly contrarie to the commaundement of Christ , who prohibiteth his Ministers all such titles , howsoeuer Mr. Giffard alleadge against al conscience and truth that they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and consciences of men : the vntruth wherof shal hereafter appeare ; yet this Lordship they receiue & exercise , euen in the best consideration , is expresly contrarie to the commandement of Christ , and such as no true Minister of the Gospel , either wil or may receiue , plead for , or iustifie .

ANd now that we may come a litle nearer their Ministrie , it would be knowen what office these Lordlie Prelates , these Primates , Metropalitanes , Arch & Lord Bishops exercise in the Church of Christ . For euerie Minister must be of necessitie in som perticular office . I speake not nowe of the offices they beare in the commonwealth : as to be Peres of the Realme , Lordes of the Parlament , Iudges of ciuile causes in Courtes , Iustices of the peace &c , but of their ecclesiastical offices , as being Bishops , whither they haue anie of the ord●narie and permanent offices , as Pastors , Teachers , Elders . Or of those extraordinarie temporarie offices which are nowe ceased of Apostles , Prophets , Euangelis●es . And sure by their magnificent stile , glorious titles , extraordinarie power , irregular aucthoritie , and inordinate rule , I should rather iudge than of these extraordinarie offices , saue that I finde those wholie nowe ceased , not expedient or to be loked for , and also that th' estate , behauioure , and doings of those Bishops accorde not to those offices . First Apostles these Bishops are not in that they haue no immediate caling from God , or confirmed by God vnto that office : Mat. 28. 19 Neither doe they execute yt as Christs Apostles did , Acts. 1. they goe not from place to place , from countrie to countrie , Iohn . 20. 21 22. to preach the Gospel , to call the people to the faith , to gather & plant Churches ; Neither haue they receiued such measure of grace , or can ratifie and approue by such euident testimonie , Math. 10. power , and wonders the doctrines , Acts. 4. 30 & 5. 12. rules , and ordinances which they deliuer vnto and impose vpon their Churches , to be of God : 1 Cor. 3. 11 Yet seing they lay a newe and an other foundation then the Apostles haue laide , 2 Cor. 11. 13. deliuer other doctrines , rules , and ordinances as appeareth by the whole ministrie , worship , ministration , ordinances and gouernement of their Church , then the Apostles haue taught and left ; seing also they vsurpe a greater power and preeminence one ouer an other , One being a Primate , an other an Arch-Bishope &c , then the Apostles did ; Wee neuer reading of anie Primate , Arch , or Lord Apostle : ( Peters chayre now not standing in England ) They had neede to confirme their offices , calings , doings , power by no les●e miracles & testimonies then the Apostles did ; if they wil haue their ministrie & doings allowed & receiued : 2 T●es. 2. 9. 10. which if they should doe and draw fire from heauen , yet ought we to belieue & hold fast that perfect ●oundation which CHRISTES Apostles haue layde , Reu. 13. 14. that authenticke alsufficient worde which they haue left , as an absolute patterne for al actions of the Church vnto the worlds end ; and to hold them accursed , men or Angels that teach any thing besides that , or to varie from the same . Gal. 1. Neither what signes or miracles soeuer they shall doe , may we hold them Prophe●s , seing they persuade yea enforce to idolatrie & apostasie , as by their publick worship appeareth . Deut. 13. And as to Euangelistes that office is too meane & base for these fellowes . 1 Tim. 1. 2. The Euangelistes toke their caling , Tit. 1. 4. sending , and whole direction from the Apostles , neither swarued from the same in any thing , 1 Cor. 4. 17. but faithfully deliuered to the Churches those rules they receiued , and assisted them in the practize therof . Phil. 2. 22. These men in that they haue no such caling to their office , neither doe so execute yt , not caling the Church vnto or helping them in , 2 Tim. 4. 5. but drawing them from & vtterly forbidding them the practize of those rules & ordinances the Apostles left ; teaching , bringing in , setting vp , and inforcing their owne or other humane deuises & ordinances vpon the church in stead therof ; and that in such high & waightie matters as the bringing in a new & strange Ministrie , Ministration , Worship , and Gouernement . For all which causes & reasons & many other which might be drawen from the rules of CHRISTS Testament , and their whole worke and doings which in nothing accordeth to the true patterne , we must hold them false Apostles and Prophets , counterfeite Euangelistes , deceiptful worckmen & builders .

Neither yet , if we but as fleightly examine them by & compare them vnto the rules of Christes Testament , shall we finde them to execute any of the ordinarie permanent offices of the Bishops belonging vnto Christes Church , as the Pastors , Teachers , Elders office . Act. 14. 23 A true christian Pastor ought to be chosen of some one peculiar flocke , Tit. 1. 5. where after due proofe he is to be publickly ordeined & receiued . Acts. 20. 21 Vnto which peculiar flocke he is bownde by couenant to administer & attend . Neither doth his Pastorall dutie , ministrie , and chardge extend to more flockes or Churches at one tyme then that one , wherof he is chosen Pastor : Neither may a true Pastor aduance himself either in titles or power aboue or ouer other christian Pastors his fellowe bretheren ; howsoeuer he haue receiued a greater measure of giftes , by so much he ought to behaue himself the more lowly , and to apply himself the more carefully & diligently to serue the Lord with the same , according to his pleasure & appoinctment within the limites of his caling ; wherin if he behaue himself faithfully he receiueth praise , if not , reproofe & censure of the whole flock accordingly . But now these Arch and Lord Bishops neither haue any certaine ministrie ouer or in any one peculiar flocke , neither anie such 〈…〉 by or in any one Congregation , but are elected either by the 〈◊〉 & Colledge of the Deane & Chapter , or ells by the Prince , consecrate , invested , inthronised , or instawled , with I know not how manie popish rites , trincketes , ceremonies belonging thervnto ; whose verie ordinarie attire is so popish , ridiculous , and f●nde , as they passe not in the streates without the wonderment & skorne of young and olde . Their ministerie also is not limited and tyed to one certaine office , or to one certaine flocke , but as they exercise sondrie offices , so doe they it ouer & in sondrie Churches , preaching , administring the Sacraments , where and when they liste of their pontifical aucthoritie , and ceasing againe from preaching &c. at their owne pleasures when & how longe they list . Againe some of them exerciseth absolute aucthoritie ouer al , no one of them but ouer many hindreth Churches & Ministers , ouer all causes and doctrines , to cite , sommon , suspend , silence , excommunicate , absolue , emprison , ●equester , con●iscate at their pleasure whom and wherfore they liste without accompt or controlement , no not by the Princes royall Writts and Courtes to which euery soule ought to be subiect . They impose vpon all Churches and Ministers their owne deuises for the publicke worship & administration , stinting and limiting the Pastor what wordes to reade and say , what scriptures to reade on this and that daye through the yeere . They limite and restraine the doctrine of the Pastor from speaking against anie thing by publick aucthoritie commanded . They determine and dispose of all the doctrines and causes of all Churches at their owne will , no man so hardie to gai●e say or to cal in question anie thing they affirme , or to denie anie thing they commande or forbid . There is nothing iudged error in the Church of ENGLAND , but what they iudge to be error , be yt neuer so grosse , popish , blasphemouse , nor anie thing compted truth which they pronounce error , be yt neuer so holy , sounde , and warranted by Gods worde . The whole ministrie , doctrine , publick administration , causes and censures of the Church of ENGLAND , are wholie in their handes , to commande , restraine or execute vpon al persons , and they themselues subiect to no reproofe , liable to no censure . Now let any iudge that knoweth what belongeth to the office , entrance , and administration of the Pastors office , whether these Bishops possesse this office , be rightly caled and entered to the same , and faithfully administer & execute the same . The teachers office for the reasons aboue-said they cannot hold or chalendge , both in regarde of the fastuous titles & inordinate power and aucthoritie which they vsurpe & exercise ouer all the ministerie , euen such as they cal Pastors , and ouer all Churches , causes , censures &c , which can at no hand be ioyned or agree vnto the christian Teachers office . As also for that they , their ministrie , and office belongeth not to any one peculiar Congregation . The like reasons maie be drawen from their Popish entrance and administration , seing they take vpon them to deliuer the Sacraments , and attend not vnto doctrine only or diligently , giuing ouer & ceasing to preach when they list , neither submit the doctrines they teach to the censure & tryal of other Prophets by the Scriptures . For al which reasons and sondrie other , they cannot be said to haue or exercise the christian Teachers office . Last of al , the office of gouerning Elders they haue not , for all the same reasons ; In that they are not chosen of & belong not vnto any perticular Congregation to which they should be bownde by duetie to attend . Neither euer did we reade in al Christes Testament of any Bishops or Ministers ( setting aside those temporarie offices of Apostles , Prophets , Euangelists that where chosen , did attend , or minister vnto diuers or more then one Congregation or office at one time . Certaine rules being there giuen for their election , ordination , and administration of & in one Congregation , with manifold admonitions & exhortations to sture them vp vnto diligence , labour , and watchfulnes in that office & place they are caled vnto , as a worke enough for him that thinketh himself most able to dischardge it . And sure most monstruous & impossible it were for one man faithfully to attend diuers Congregations , Except they can also shew that one sheepheard at one & the same time can diligently feed & guide two or many flockes far distant in place , Or that one candle may be put into two candlesticks , and giue light vnto two seueral houses far distant asunder at one & the same instant . If the one be impossible , so is the other . Yet stand these men Bishops or Ouerseers not only to manie Churches each one of them , But their Primate giueth , or rather selleth licences to other inferior Priestes , some one of them to stand a Minister to two , yea peraduenture to three seueral flockes . This is an vsual matter and passeth by way of sta●ute lawe amongst the Chapleins & Doctors of the Church of England , who may haue & be Non Resident some of them from two , some from three Congregations or benefices , especially all his Graceless Chaplaines , by a singular prerogatiue . But to retourne againe to our purpose , these Arch and Lord Bishops cannot be said to haue this office of gouerning Elders , for that they professe to be Ministers of the worde & Sacramentes , which duetie belongeth to the Pastors office . And because they exercise absolute power ouer Pastors , Churches , and causes ▪ to depose , excommunicate , absolue , and determine in their owne sole name & power , which no true Elder Minister or member of Christ may do . Reasons also might be drawen from their sitting , chandging , aspiring to the richer & higher roomes . From their Princely Lordly flate , pompe , trayne , reuenues , pallaces wherin they liue in all wordly excesse , pleasure , idlenes , to which thinges whilest they attend , it is impossible they should faithfully execute & dischardge any ministrie in the Church . From the apparant & odious sinnes of their persons & liues , that appeare and breake out in their conversation , which is most vnchristian , fleshly , and vnholy . As coueteousnes , oppression , extortion , open wrong doing , v●u●ie , ambition , pride , idlenes , louers of pleasure , such as cannot gouerne their wiues , children , and families in the feare of God , sobrietie , or common honestie , but nourish and bring them vp in pride , vanitie , idlenes , superfluitie , voluptuousnes , gaining , chambering , and w●ntonnes , yea peraduenture vnchasti●g and that not vnknowen to the inselues , who also themselues are not all of them of the most chaste and temperate life , 1 Tim. 3. some of them being giuen to wyne , strikers , ●orcerers , blasphemers , 〈…〉 . skorners , and deriders of the most holie exercise of the preaching of Gods worde , causing their counterfeight and natural fooles openly in their owne house at 〈…〉 feastes to make a ●ermon o● 〈◊〉 or fallie in the most high despight of God , and of his blessed ordinance . Not here to perticulate the sondrie heresies contrarie to the truth and blasphemies of the truth holden amongst them ; the least of which faultes publickly knowen , are enough to di●able the best of them from exercising any publicke ministrie to the Lorde in his Church , if we may belieue the Apostle . To conclude , Math. 20. 25. 26. this one reason ( if there were no more ) might shew and proue them to be no christian Bishopps , in that they exercise some ciuile office or offices together with this their pretended ministrie . Luk. 12. 14. Which is not only expresly forbidden & vtterly vnlawful by the worde of God , but also impossible for any man to performe both , or either of both faithfully whilest he keepeth both . God himself hath made two distinct and seueral offices , and appoincted vnto them two distinct & seueral persons for Ministers : It being no more lawfull for a Bishop to execute the ciuile Magistrates office , then for the ciuile Magistrate to administer the Sacraments . What monstruous parsons then are they which thus confounde & commingle in their owne persons these two diuers and distinct offices and powers ? Might not they that assume both the swordes into their handes , carry them acrosse also in their cote armour , aswel as their holie Father the POPE ? What a monstrous confusion and perturbation make they both in Church and common wealth herebie ? disturbing the holie order that God himself hath set for the gouernement both of the Church and common wealth in this worlde , remouing yea vtterly breaking downe therbie all the limites and bowndes which God hath set and established for all estates , degrees , offices , callinges , actions , so that no man by this meanes either knoweth his duetie , or orderly walketh within the bowndes of his calling , wherbie it is come to passe that the whole land ouer-floweth with all impietie , violence , cruelitie and iniquitie , as in the dayes of NOE ,

Thus by al these reasons haue we proued , and al that haue not vtterly made shipwrack of faith & good conscience , or that stand not vowed bond seruantes to their apostaticall throne , must confesse , That these Arch & Lord Bishops are no true christian Bishops according to the Gospel of CHRIST , neither haue or exercise any lawful office or ministri of or in the Church of CHRIST . If then they be not members of that body belonging to that heade CHRIST IESVS , it must needes followe that they , their offices , & ministrie are false & antichristian , belonging to an other head , an other bodie , euen Antichrist , and that whoore the false Church his spouse . If their inordinate power and irregular ministrie be found contrarie to al the rules and ordinances of Christes Testament , then can yt not be of God , belong vnto , or vsed in Christes Church , or be blessed to the gouernement or saluation of his people : Then must it needes be the power and throne of Sathan giuen to the Beast , accursed , giuen to seduce , and to drawe all the children of wrath to distruction . Neither shal Mr. Giffard or all the false Prophets belonging to their throne , be able to tourne away or withstand those iudgments and plagues which are powred out of the Lordes viall vpon the throne of the Beaste , or with their soft tongues to licke whole the woundes of the Beaste , that are giuen with that two edged sword that procedeth out of CHRISTES mouth . It shal not help them though they raile and blaspheme and gnawe their tongues for grief . For their kingdom shal wax darke , and Antichrist shal consume & be abolished as he is reueiled , 2 Thes. 2. 8. euen by the same light : the Lord himself hath spoken yt . How weake nowe & sclender are Mr. Giffards defences for these his Lordes the Bishops . That the Bishops haue not their caling , consecration , or power from the Pope , but from their Church . That they haue by oath renownced the Popes vsurped power and tyrannie . That they do not maintaine or defend the religion and lawes of Antichrist , but professe and aduance the gospel of Christ , and by the liuely word cut downe all idolaitre , heresies , abhominations . That they vsurpe not a Lordship ouer the faith and consciences of men , but their peculiar power is onlie in the administration of external discipline . Therfore we with manifest and wicked sclander call the Bishops Antichristian . If you demande the proofe of al this , wee refer you to Mr. Giffards bare affirmation without anie one reason in his learned answeare to the Brownistes , Page . 75. If he were himself sometime of an other minde , you must thincke it was before he had so neere friendship with , or was imployed in such trustie seruices by his Lord of London . Who , as also his Lords grace , must not be driuen to proue euerie thing they affirme , that were enough to put young diuines vnto , their pontifical mouth is sufficient warrant to all the Churches in England . Yet I would of their curtesie they would giue vs their Schismatiks that cannot be so satisfied , leaue to doubt ( though we wil not contend ) whether their Caling , Consecration , and this their Power first came not from the Pope . For albeit we haue heard that the offices of Prouincial Bishops , Arch Bishops , Metropolitanes where almost when this general defection from the gospel so much foretold of began to breake out and appeare , longe before the Pope obtayned his Supremacie ouer al other Churches and Ministers : Yet might it be that this maner of their caling , solemne consecration , and lardge irregular power of his Lords Grace & Lord Bishops sprong from their vnholie Father the Pope . Who when he was inthronized by Sathan , had receiued the Dragons high commission , to be his Vicare general in earth , could not of his fatherhoode but prouide for these his natural children , and bestowe them in his garrison Cities , as his Tetrarches , Lieutenants & Tribunes , with magnificent titles , priuiledges , power , and authoritie to rule in his name and absence , euen as his owne engrauen image ouer all Realmes , Countries , & Territories within their Fathers dominions . For ( as we haue also crediblie hearde ) there was neuer a Lorde Arch-Bishop or Lorde Bishop with such titles , priuiledges , power , hearde of before the Pope created them . Notwithstanding because wee haue these thinges but bie hearesay , and would be lothe to affirme of things so vnsure , we wil content our selues to haue proued and shewed the Arch Lord Bisshops to be no true Ministers of the gospel and Church of CHRIST , and therfore of themselues antichristian , from whom or howsoeuer they rise it skilleth vs not . Neither shall it auaile them though they haue broken their faith and schismed from the Pope , cast off his yoke , renownced his vsurped power and tyrannie , when they themselues are rounde to vsurpe , retaine and exercise , if not the same , yet as antichristian & enormous a power as the Pope , retayning the same Courts ▪ Officers , Cannons , constitutions , priuileges ouer all Churches , Ministers , causes , doctrines , censures , they themselues not being subiect to the censure of anie Church , exercising their aucthoritie and commandementes contrarie vnto and aboue all lawes both of God and of their Prince ; whose Royall Courts and writts are not of power to baile anie one committed by the leaste of their hierarchie , assuming vnto themselues both the swordes , exercising together and at once both ciuile and ecclesiasticall offices &c. How well they aduance the Gospel of CHRIST , that blaspheme the same , and pronounce the rules , ordinances , and ministrie therof intollerable , and persecute all such as either speake against them , or for yt , Let the tyrannous hauocke they make in the common wealth of poore christians in the prisons of the land , shewe . How wel by the liuelie worde they cut downe all idolatrie , heresies , and popish abhominations , let the seruice-booke and publick worship of their Churche , shewe . Which whilest with a stronge hande they obtrude vpon euerie conscience , as also impose vpon the Church , is not this to tyrannize and exercise a Lordship ouer the faith and conscience ? Or ( to speake as he doth ) is this nothing but to execute the external discipline , to make and impose a newe Leitourgie for the whole administration of the Church ? Or is it likelie that this marcked Minister of ANTICHRIST knewe what the outward gouernment of CHRIST in his Church meaneth , that saith yt concerneth not the conscience ? Is there anie more dreadful or reuerend action on earth amongst men , then the iudgmentes of CHRIST in his Church , which are al most holie and true ? Or doe not these concerne the conscience ? Doth not euerie action of which there are such certaine lawes set by CHRIST himself , nearelie concerne the conscience to doe it according to the same ? when the least abuse , neglect , or swaruing from the rule euen in the least circumstance that is enioyned in the least censure doth so deface the action , is so offensiue & preiudicial , do not those actions which are donne for the saluation of soules , M●th. 18. that are said to binde in heauen , not concerne the conscience ? Or doe not those rules which are giuen for the direction and preseruation of the publick communion of the whole Church , 1. Corinth ▪ 5. and priuate conuersation of euerie member therof ( without the obseruation of which rules there can be no order , no dutie either publick or priuate , no holie walking in anie caling kept ) concerne the conscience ? Except Mr. Giffard can imagine such a Congregation and such members therof , as either neuer sinne , and so need no watching ouer , admonition , reproof , Or ells such a Church and members therof as make no conscience of anie thing , as when they sinne will not amend , wil not heare admonition , or suffer reproof , which is the meanes giuen of God to bring them to amendement . Yet Mr. Giffard maketh this holie outward gouernment of CHRIST ouer and in his Church not to concerne the conscience ; the myserable diuines of this age , not to be of necessitie to the beeing and preseruation of a Church ; the blasphemous Bisshops of this land , not to be a thing tollerable , with manie other reprochfull blasphemies of the same , which are not of anie christian almost to be hearde or repeated , much lesse pronounced and defended . Math. 21. These husbandmen are they that caste the Sonne and heyre out of the vineyarde , Luk. 19. 14 . that wil not haue him reigne ouer them , but take the regiment into their owne hands , deuising and erecting a newe forme of gouernement vnto the Church , as these their popish Courtes , Cannons , Customes , Officers declare , and persecuting with al hostility and tyranny all such as pleade for Christes gouernement , and wil not subiect their bodies and soules vnto their antichristian yoke . But yet for all this they exercise no Lordship ouer the faith and conscience , though they vsurpe , exercise , and impose this strange ministrie , ministration , and gouernement in and ouer the Church . All this saith Mr. Giffard is but th' administration of exernall discipline , and concerneth not the conscience , ( especiallie if it be seared with a whote Iron as Mr. Giffard is . ) Wherfore we doe impudentlie and wickedlie sclander when wee therfore conclude that the Bishops be antichristian , and whosoeuer is ordayned by them , hath his ministrie from Antichrist and from the Deuil . What kinde of ministrie your Lord Bishops exercise , and aucthoritie they vsurpe , by that which is alreadie written the reader may iudge , or at leaste hath a direct way shewed furder to examine : What kinde of rule they keepe or ( as you call it ) discipline they execute , remaineth to be tryed in the fourth principal transgression : Where if you make not a better defence for it then you haue donne for their Ministrie and ministration , they are all like to proue ( as wee haue affirmed them ) strange , false , forged , antichristian , such as belong not vnto and cannot be exercised in anie christian Church : and then let Mr. Giffard see whether that grieuous conclusion will follow and fal vpon the men vpon whom the marcke of the Beast is ●ownde , that ministrie which is ordayned by , proceded from , and standeth vnder the throne of these antichristian Bishops . In the meane while let vs in a verie few wordes consider of the rest of the ministerie in the Church of England in their order .

WE would gladly learne of him what office in the Church of God , Chancelors and Commissaries , may be said to exercise , for we confesse that in Christes Testament we neuer read of their names or offices : they are strangers there , and we in all the worlde knowe not from whence they came or who brought them into the Church , if not their Father the Pope , or durste there retaine them , but these his children & successors the Bishopps . A lardge power they haue and exercise ouer all parrish Churches their Ministers and Members , to keepe a iudiciall Courte , to cite , conuent , trie , punish by mu● ct , iudge , imprison absolue , purge , not only for ecclesiastical causes as the neglect of their ceremonies and trinckets , and for not duelie reading and obseruing their iniunctions & seruice-booke , but also for ciuile causes , yea criminatory and iudicial causes , such as by the lawe of God deserue death , and only belong to the Princes royall aucthoritie , to whom therfore God hath committed his sworde : Whose iudgment seate & aucthoritie for anie priuate person to vsurpe , is iudged rebellion both by the lawe of God and of this land . For all that take the sworde shall dye in the sworde Math. 26. 52. Againe these Chauncelors and Commissaries are Ciuilians ( laye men as they cal them ) & not Priestes , therfore we meruaile how they came to exercise such an high ministrie ouer and in the Church .

The same we say of their other delegate ciuile Doctors of their Courtes & trayne of Aduocates , Proctors , Registers &c. We finde in the Testament of Christ no mention , in the Church of Christ no vse of such Offices , Officers , Courtes , to decide their controuersies , to execute their censures & iudgments . These handle both ecclesiastical and ciuile causes mixtlie , after a most corrupt and litigious maner , amongst whom al things are venal in their Courtes &c , wherof in due place : sufficeth it here to finde them in name , office , and vse counterfeit , forged , false , without mention or warrant in Gods worde , such as not Christ but Antichrist deuised & brought in .

As to the persons in their high commission they are of two sortes , chieflie ecclesiastical , and partlie ( for countenance and fashion sake ) ciuile ; Of the ecclesiastical we haue aboue entreated . Neither finde wee that anie ciuile person may exercise anie ecclesiastical office or function : as to ouer-see so manie Churches , to decide and determine ecclesiastical causes , or to execute the censures of the Church , as by way of office or by vertue of anie humane commission , especially after that vngodlie maner , which is in al things so contrarie to the order Christ hath instituted , so contrary to the faith , power , and libertie of Christes Church , as were not hard to shewe if we should examine their procedings by the rules of Gods worde . And great ruth it is that so noble and honorable personages should be so highly abused by these wicked Bishops . The Lorde in mercie shew them their deceipts , the error and daunger of their wayes .

Yet of this gouerning ministrie remayneth the Arch head Deacon of the Church of England to be considered of , who is no smale officer of this Church , hauing and keeping his solemne iudiciall Court , Synode , and procedings in such ecclesiastical causes as fal within his consideration , with absolute power in his owne name also to cite , sommon , iudge , and punish all such parish Churches with their Parsons and Ministers as fal within his limites . To impose taskes vpon Pastors , what scriptures to reade priuately euerie daye , what to conne by heart , and to take accompt of them at his Synodes accordingly . This Arch-Deacon also ( if such be his learning that he can ) may administer the worde and Sacramentes , and haue a benefice or two for neede . Howsoeuer , he may pleade and boaste of his antiquitie aswell as the Arch-Bishop , and of the great cause of his erection and necessarie vse of his office &c. Yet seing we finde no mention of his name , or vse of his office , in all the Testament of CHRIST , seing we finde there no such Heade Arch-Deacons with such stately Courtes and absolute iutisdiction , and that not ouer many Deacons but manie of their Pastors , yea manie whole Churches , we must , or rather the Lorde hath giuen the same sentence of them , that is giuen of their fellowes aboue-said , That they are not the ordinance or ministrie of CHRIST , but of Antichrist , euen the heades and limbes of that Beaste , that wil be held within no limites or boundes , in no order or callings , but breake , corrupt , and confounde all lawes , boundes order , Colloss. 18. ● and offices as they luste . CHRIST himself is the only heade of all his Ministers , 1 Cor. 12. 27 whether Pastors , Teachers , Deacons &c , and they againe his members of their part . Acts. 6. The christian Deacon is to attend to the faithful collection and distribution of the ben●uolence of the Sainctes , Rom. 12. 8. and not to such Court-keeping ouer the Church , 1 Tim. 3. ministrie , and Sainctes : He is to attend in his function to that peculiar flocke wherof he is chosen a Deacon , and not in this maner to intrude and incroach vpon manie Churches . A christian Deacon is to kepe himself within the boundes of his owne office in sobrietie , and not to intermeddle with the Pastors office also , with the ministration of the worde and sacramentes : yea to exalt himself and vsurpe power and iurisdiction ouer his superiors , not only ouer many Pastors , but ouer manie whole Churches . Thus haue we taken a superficiall veiwe , or rather as yt were a sodaine blush of the reigning Ministerie of the Church of England , leauing the furder inuestigation and demonstration of the manifold deformities therof to their furder diligence , to whom God hath giuen greater knowledge and opportunitie , leauing place also vnto Mr. GIFFARD or anie of that false hierarchie to make defence and iustification of these poyntes wherin they are here chardged by the worde of God . Which if they can doe , then let them be held excused , and vs iustly chardged with impudent and wicked sclander . In the meane while I haste to the second sort of their Ministrie .

THe next sorte of the ministrie of the Church of England is the Collegiat or idle Ministrie , which may be diuided , or rather distinguished ( because sometimes they are mixed & ioyned , one man being a master of a College and a Deane , a fellowe of a house & a Prebend , and each of them haue a Parsonage or two for a neede ) into these two kindes , Academical and Cathedral , The third sort , the Monastical , being by the hand of God and the Magistrates sworde cut off & suppressed . These Academical Diuines liue , haue their education & degrees in the Colleges , Halles , and Celles of the two Vniuersities , The originall corrupt customes & vse of which places , it is not mie purpose here to discourse ; Neither indeed haue I skill aright to discusse whither and how they sprange from the Heathens , or from the Papistes . Only this I dare affirme , that from the Booke of God they neuer diriued these their Colleges , Scholes , Hales , Orders , Degrees , Vowes , Customes , Ceremonies , Attires , that I say not their Artes , Aucthors , exercise , and vse of their learnings , disputations , commencements &c. But as they haue receiued them ells where , so haue they euer belonged to an other heade and kingdome , and can by no meanes ( in this estate they now stand & haue tyme out of minde continued ) be made to accorde to the Gospel and kingdome of CHRIST , wherof these Vniuersitie Diuines haue euer bene the professed and most bitter enemies , furnishing Antichrists hoste in all the roomes and places , even from the POPES chayre , to the parish Priestes pulpit or pue , with fresh seruitors continually , corrupting the pure fountaines , and peruerting the text it self with their gloses , paraphrases , notes , figures &c , fighting with their schole learning , vayne artes , philosophie , rethoricke , and logique against the truth and seruantes of God , striuing herebie to vphold Antichristes ruynous kingdome and abhominable wares , which these marchantmen set to sale for gaines , as we by present experience see ( nowe their portion and idle monasticall life , beginneth but euen a litle to be reproued by the light & power of the Gospel ) how these crastes-men these Vniuersitie Clarkes rage and take on , and with their schole learning seeke to tourne away the euident truth of God , to colour and plead for all the abhomination & sinne of the tymes , to heale the wounde & vphold the throne of the Beaste , to rend , reproch , and blaspheme such as speake and witnesse against it , as their vituperious , vnchristian , and erroneous Bookes which they daily publish , declare . Neither is their education and learning ( if they be dulie examined ) such as is required in the holy Ministerie of CHRIST . All of them ( as is said ) being nourished euen from their Cradles with the milke of superstition , instructed in the Scholes of heathen vanitie , brought vp in the Colleges of more the monkish idlenes , and disorder , exercised in vaine and curious artes , whose diuinitie is by tradition &c. The truth of these things Mr. GIFFARD not being able to gainesay , seeketh to shoffle off with a bold boasting chalendg against men vnto himself vnknowen , vpon the dispence of bearing the shame , if he finde not in the vniuersites many Bachelo●rs of Arte far exceeding in the knowledge of the liberall artes , the 3. tongues Hebreaw , Greeke & Latine , or in sounde iudgment of diuinitie euen the principall Masters of Brownisme ; which if it could in so fewe yeeres be obtayned with more then monkish idlenes , then may the Brownistes in some thing be belieued . First we giue him to weite that there are of those he calleth Brownistes , sond●ie of greater contynuance , and that haue as high degree in those scholes with as high commendation as himself , although they boaste not of such thinges wherof they ought to be ashamed . Then that there are as manie of his bretheren the Monckes , that thinck themselues as skilfull as himself , or the greatest Clarke in the vniuersitie . But nowe in all this what will our ignorance help him , or their store of learning shewe , that they haue not bene and are not thus imitiate and brought vp . In their grammer scholes it cannot be denied , but they learned and learne the latine tongue from the most heathenish and prophane aucthors , lasciuious Poets &c , which are allowed with the priuiledge of the Church of ENGLAND as most christian rudiments to be taught the youth in the publicke scholes . When they haue passed all those formes , and can both say much of those aucthors by heart and vse their phrase , then are they sent to the Vniuersitie to learne the artes , and to be instructed in philosophie &c ▪ hitherto it cannot be denied but heathenisme and such execrable idolatrie as is found in those aucthors , is wrytten & engrauen vpon the tables of their hearre , and filed vpon their tongue euen from their infancie . Wel , and when they are come to the Vniuersitie , there are they first salted as they call it in their College , and matriculate in the publick scholes , solemnely sworne vpon the Proctors booke to keepe their mothers statutes and secretes , and not to reueile her mysteries or teach her artes anie where but in the Vniuersitie . Then are they instructed both publickly and priuately in Logique & Rethorick in the Elenches and Topickes , in the tropes and figures of all kindes ; wherein they must be perfect , for these artes are of speciall vse vnto them , and to serue at all assaies . Then procede they to philosophie , & there Aristotele is Autos eipe amongst them , out of whose mouth and writinges they fetch their positions & axio●es , definitions , aphorismes , distinctions &c. out of his Ethickes , Econonickes , and pollitickes they feth the order & gouernement of their maners , priuate estates , and common wealth . He yet furder instructeth them of the Soule & of the worlde in lardge & special bookes , Of the heauen of natural & supernatural thinges , of Nature , Fortune , the eternitie of the worlde , and perpetuitie of all the creatures in their kinde in Specie , of the regions of the ayre and seuerall thinges in them contayned , the Meteores &c. there learne they the causes of the rainebowe , the making of the windes , cloudes , and of the whole skye , far otherwise then is set downe in the Genesis . Yet leadeth he them higher and sheweth them the celestial spheares , planets , starres , quintessences even from the Mone to their Caelum crystallinum empiraeum and their Primum Mobile , with their seuerall places , dimensurations , motions , and Motors : yea yet learne they more secret thinges with their constellations , radiations , influence & predomination according to their signes , houses , oppositions , aspects , ecclipses &c. wherbie most strange and wonderfull thinges are prognosticate and foretold concerning the weather and ceasons of the yeere , the estate of kingdomes , the diseases & dangers to come &c : concerning natiuities & tymes of death ( commonly caled fortunes ) concerning things to come or things past , stollen , lost , founde &c. These thinges it were frensie if not blasphemie to call vayne and curious artes . Mr. GIFFARD would neuer beare it at the handes of such blinde schismatickes ( whose bane such deipe learning is ) seeing these sciences are vulgarely taught , studied , practized , allowed , and maintained not only in the vniuersities but of the whole Church of ENGLAND , as by their yeerely prognostications euerie where to be sold , is to be seene . These studies & artes we may not call perierga Curious , because Mr. GIFFARD saith Luke speaketh only of coniuration Act. 19. But let him approue these lawfull by the scriptures , and surely I wil gladly confesse mine ignorance & sinne in caling these studies and artes prophane , curious , vnfit for a christian , much more for a Minister of the Church . Otherwise let not any through mine vnskilfulnes ( who peraduenture repeate not aright or in due place the tearmes of these artes , as hauing either forgotten them through longe discontynuance , or may be , neuer learned them aright ) take occasion either to carpe at me therfore , or especially to thincke the better of these vaine and curious , yea vnlawfull and vnchristian artes and studies , which haue not only no warrant in Gods worde , but are directly contrarie vnto and expresly forbidden in the same , as were not harde to shewe and prooue , if the subiect were not to lardge , and should not make to wide a Parenthesis in this treatise , and drawe it out to a greater length then I would . I will not therfore stand here to discusse their philosophicall probleames , paradoxes , axiomes , or seuerall sentences and opinions , which are authenticall and currant amongst them , how euill they agree to the worde of God : Or to shewe how far these curious inquisitors , these starr-gazers , astrologians , calcars , wisardes , deuines exceede the boundes of faith and sobrietie , and passe the limites of Gods reueiled will : Or whether they maie wander by these heathenish or diuelish opinions of the heauens , starres , and their reuolutions , influence &c. Motors , Demones , or Spirits , and howe neare this approcheth to coniuration : Or to shewe howe far they are suffred to procede , yea professe and practise in these diuelish artes : Let the bookes ( that I chardge no persons ) which are commonlie bought and studied in the Vniuersities , and in all other partes of the realme without controlement , shewe . Neither will I here proceede to repeate their other vaine , curious , fonde , triffling and vile artes , and studies , which were endlesse . Onlie in this place I must here add vnto those publicke professed artes aboue recited , the studie of all heathen and prophane histories , of all ages , nations , persons , wherein they must of necessitie be prompt and expert ; as from those fountaines to drawe their examples and platformes of maners and the gouernement of sta●es ; as from whence to fetch the chiefe ornamentes of their stile , orations , sermons , Bookes , to exemplifie , illustrate , prooue or improue : yea as whereby to open and expounde the Scriptures both of the old and newe Testament , chieflie the old Prophets , without which they cannot be vnderstoode , but especialy Esai and Daniel . As to Rethorcik and Logi●ue they are so necessarie , as without which it is impossible to vnderstand or diuide anie part of the scripture aright ; as without which they cannot vnderstand or declare to the people by what trope or figure , by what forme of argument or Syllogisme the holie Ghoste speaketh . In these artes and studies are these Academical diuines or rather Peripateticke Philosophers trayned and exercised . In these they must needs spend 7. of their first yeeres at the least , els should they be vnfit to take those degrees of Bachelour and Mr. of Arte , or to make that publick profession they doe of the artes at their Commencements . In these artes and studies when they are once a litle exercised and instructed that they beginne to perceiue the groundes and methode therof , then are they trayned both publicklie and priuatlie to defend or oppose against some of these axiomes or positions , both by waye of oration & argument in their Sophismes and disputations , and therin being approued ( or at the least allowed ) they then take the first degree of the scholes , and commence Bachelours of Arte , and haue as ensignes of their degree & knowledge , special attire and furniture assigned them to be knowen from other common schollers ; as the square Cap , the tronke gowne , the hoode of one shoulder , the habite &c , which they must weare . Afterward hauing spent more then thee yeeres in studie on these artes , and hauing donne their publicke actes progradu , them they commence Masters of the said Artes ; and are againe solemnly sworne and made Regents and Lectorers of their scholes , and sit , reade , and dispute of the same artes publickly in a solemne high seate , pulpit , or chaire for orations , as also reade priuate lectures therof in their Colleges . Now I would here by the way know of Mr. Giff. what tyme and leisure a Bachelour of arte that contynueth in the Vniuersitie and procedeth in those orders and degrees can haue , to studie Diui●itie , or to growe so prompt in the knowledge , iudgment , and exercise therof , as he dare ingage his credite he shal be fownde far to passe therin such as in their Vniuersity haue bene allowed publickly to preach , and of the Bishops bene made ful Ministers . But to our purpose ; when these clarkes are thus instituted and furnished with these liberal sciences , and this ground wor●k throughly laid , them maie they in good tyme proceede to the studie of Diuinity ( as they cal it ) which is set out vnto them in great volumes & infinite bookes of mens writinges both old and newe , where they haue such varietie of Paraphrases , Commentaries , Common places , Catachises &c. ( Not to trouble them at the first with the primatiue histories , Doctors , Councels ) as they may in shorte space ( if they studie harde ) become pretie diuines , and be able to shewe their aucthors iudgment , yea ( through the helpe of rethoricke and a good memorie ) to make a Sermon an howre longe : Alwaies carefully prouided that they vtter no more , then that they haue read in some allowed aucthor , hauing the priuiledge of the Church of England , and presume not either to vnderstand the text otherwise then their aucthors interpret yt , or to add one note of their owne obseruation , for that ( how consonant soeuer to the truth ) were great presumption and rash●es . Neither may they ouer ▪ far applie or inforce the iudgment of their Aucthors against anie present enormitie established by aucthoritie in the Church of England , for that were intollerable against the peace of the Church , yea seditious against the Magistrates aucthoritie &c. Thus whilest these Diuines are helde within these limites of modestie and sobrietie , and contynue with their Mother the Vniuersity , they ma●e in due time set vp their bills of chalenge vpon the schole doores , that they meane to dispute vpon such and such questions of Diuinity , and to doe their Actes progradu . Which being dispatched either in taenebris or in Luce , then are they fit for the Commencement to be made Bachelours of Diuinity . In like maner against that daye must such of them as haue before passed all these degrees , and nowe are fit to proceede Doctors of Diuinity do their actes in the publick scholes accordinglie in these Diuinitie disputations s●rmons ad clarum &c. And against this sollemne Commencement must especial choice be made of those that are to commence Bachelours and Doctors of Diuinitie to keepe the publicke actes that daie . And these for their furder credites o●ten tymes wil vndertake to defend against all comme●s such Propositions as are most ●dious to all men in whom is anie light , conscience , knowledge , or feare of God . As that it is lawfull for one man to haue more benefices and flockes to attend then one at one time . That it is lawfull to be a non resident , to hue from his flocke wherof he taketh chardge . That the vnpreaching Ministers are true and lawfull Pastors , and the Sacraments by them deliuered true and holie Sacraments . That Christes outwarde gouernment in his Church , practized and set downe by his Apostles , is not of necessitie or perpetuall , but variable and arbitrable at the wil of men , according to times , estates &c. These and suche like , these Graduates publish and defende , the Vice-Chancelour and whole senate of the Vniuersitie conclude and confirme , as catholicke orthodoxe and most sounde , reiecting whatsoeuer Scriptures or reasons shall by these comical disputers either Vniuersitie Doctors and Diuines , be brought against them . Wel , vnto this famous Act are these Commencers solemnelie brought in their seueral attyres and arrayes , in their skal●t gownes , hoodes , habites , caps , tippitts &c , with the Bedells proclayminge and carying staues and maces before them , with a greate troupe of Gradua●es and Clarkes following them . And thus they martch thorowe the streates to the place appoincted and prepared for these prizes , where they haue their sticklers and moderators readie to rescue , when they are in anie distresse , and where their aduersaries fight boo●ie , beeing of their owne confederacie . Where it is not lawefull for anie that will to oppose , or to speake for the truth of God . Neither are these questions discussed in the english tongue before those multitudes of people and strangers , but in the latine tongue after their syllogistical and romish maner , lest the follie of these Prophets should be laied open vnto all men , and these gamsters be hissed off the Stage by the people . Thus , though with manie other triffling ceremonies and circumstances then I either can , or care to recite , are these academical diuines aduanced to their degrees . Which Degrees , 〈◊〉 , ceremonies , orders , oathes , vo●●s , maner of disputations &c , how consonant they are to the ministrie of Christ by the Apostles rules , let Mr. Giffard or those learned Diuines approue by Christes Testament , as it standeth them vpon , that bring them in and exercise them in the Church . For our selues wee protest we neuer there read or heard of anie such : and therfore cannot but thincke them fond , strange , and antichristian , such as no waye belonge to , or beseeme the Ministrie of CHRIST , neither are necessarie or tollerable in Christes Churche . Thus euen by this verie brief and insufficient recital of but some of their artes , studies , orders , deg●ees &c. I hope this assertion wil not proue so false or incredible . That the learned ministrie of the Church of England is nourished euen from their cradles with the milke of superstition , instructed in the s●holes of heathen vanitie , brought vp in the colleges of more then monckish idlenes and disorder .

For of such kinde of societies and Colleges of Ministers & clarks , to liue together after this monastical maner , wee neuer read in the whole Booke of God . Howe like they are to the scholes of the Prophets at Naioth , Rama , Iericho let their artes , studies , vowes , customes , orders , ceremonies , degrees , disputations , exercises &c , declare . And as to the holie exercise of prophecie spoken of in the new Testament ; yt belonged vnto and alwaies was exercised in some christian Congregation , in a more holy , reuerent , and free maner , and not after those heathenish popi●h customes abouesaid . Wee in CHRISTES Testament neuer read of such a monacticall ministrie so withdrawen and sequestred from anie perticular Congregation , office , chardge , and function , as these Vniuersitie diuines and Ministers are in their Colleges , Halles , Ce●les : Where they must needes liue in idlenes and disorder , that are thus licentiate and dissolute , that wil be held within no christian bondes or order . Wee neuer read in CHRISTES Testament of anie such societies or Ministers , that liued in no perticular Congregation , that were caled to no perticular office , or flocke , that liue idlelie , professing to be Misters and yet execute no certaine ministrie or function . When Mr. Giff. shall directlie proue by the scriptures these thinges to be lawful , then so farre foorth wee shall allowe of these Vniuersitie Diuines these Collegiat Ministers : And the rather if he also approue by Gods worde their worship in their Seruice-booke : And last of all ( not to comber him with their manifold other superstitious customes , Commemorations &c , ) if he can shewe it to be lawfull for anie Minister or christian to ioyne vnto and liue in anie such College , societie , or fellowship , where Gods holie ordinance of honest mariage is by expresse lawe forbidden all the fellowes and schollers of these Colleges , they being no longer to remaine in that societie than they liue vnmaried , I say not now chastely : For howe possible or likelie that is , for so manie younge men in the flower of their youth and prime of their strength , especialy being noseled in such heathen vanitie , prophannes , vaine-glorie , curiositie , superstition , disorder , dissolutenes , and ( as is said ) contempt of Gods ordinances , let anie iudge ; yea let the scripture yt self iudge : where God sheweth the reward of these sinnes , how he therfore giueth them vp to the lustes of their owne heartes , vnto vncleannes , to shamefull lustes contrarie to nature to worke filthines , Rom. 1. 24 and to dishonor their own bodies amongst themselues &c. And so vntil some of them can iustifie this their life , orders , customes , vowes , and procedings of these Academical diuines in their scholes and Colleges , wee must nomber & leaue them with their bretheren and sisters the Monkes , Friars , Nunnes &c , vnder Gods feareful iudgments , vtterly in this estate vnfit for the ministrie or Church of Christ .

Yet would I not here , that anie should deeme or suppose that wee condemne anie lawful artes or necessarie sciences , anie holie exercises , or scholes of institution : And so doe labour to bring in barbarisme , as Mr. Giffard Mr. Some and others haue giuen out . No wee are so far from it , as we blame these Vniuersities , Colleges , and Scholes for their heathen , prophane , superstitious , vnchristian societies , disorders , customes , ceremonies , for their vaine , curious , vnlawful artes & studies , and their maner of teaching & exercising them &c. We desire with our whole hearts , that the tongues and other godlie artes were taught , not in the Vniuersities or a fewe places onlie , but in all places where an established Church is , at the least in euerie Citie of the land . Yet this indeede wee hold , That euerie christian man ought to haue his abiding & dwelling , and to bring vp his children in some such place where a christian Congregation is , and that all scholes of learning ought to be kept in such places where both teachers and schollers may be vnder the holie gouernment and censures of Christ in his Church , and may liue and be kept in holie order . Then , that the artes and sciences which are thus taught or studied , be not vayne , curious , or vnlawful , but necessarie & godlie . Thirdlie , that they be not taught , exercised , or practized after anie prophane , vaineglorious , or superstitious maner , but in al sobrietie , modestie , and in the feare of God . To these fewe rules if their Vniuersities , Colledges , Scholes were reformed , then should they not be as they nowe are the seminaries of Antichrist , the bane of the Churche , the corruption of all the youth in the lande : But then should they be ( that which they nowe pretend ) the scholes of all godlie learning to garnish the Church , to furnish the common wealth with fit and vertuous men for euerie place , office , and estate .

LEt vs nowe procede to the other sorte of this Collegia●e idle ministrie of the Church of England , Which are these Cathedral Abbay lubbers , These L. Bishops , Deanes , Subdeanes , Prebendes , Cannons &c , as in their cataloge : who liue together like Monkes in their Cloisters & celles , adioyned & annexed vnto some Cathedral Church , within which precincts they are ●edd & stalled vp to intend the diuine seruice of the said Cathedral , ●at certaine howers of the day limited , euerie one in his seuerall array , ministerial vestures , surplices , copes , vestimentes , hoodes , tippets , cappes , rochets &c , according to their seuerall office , place , and degree , some singing , some piping , some reading , some praijng , some pisteling , some gospeling , some preaching , some administring the sacramentes &c , Of whose offices , ceremonies , rites orders , customes , seuerally to entreate , is not mie purpose ; It sufficeth me that I finde not any such Cathedrals , Cloisters , Societies , Offices ; Orders , Ceremonies , Worship &c , in all the booke of God , and therfore I dare pronounce them Antichristian , such as God wil not be pleased or serued with in his Church .

Let not Mr. Deane vnder the visarde of a christian name and office thincke to escape , for when we bring him to the light , we finde him but a counterfeight , hauing neither the office nor ministration of a christian Deacon . The christian Deacons office is faithfully to collect and distribute the almes and contribution of the Church . But these Cathedral Deanes feede themselues & their troupes , I say not of the weekely almes of their Church ( for that they neither gather , neither would it suffice the tenth part of their pompe ) but of the Lordships , landes , and fees of their Church ; lying loytering in their stately pallaces , and not distributing to the poore of that Congregation according to th' appointment of the Elders and the Church . A christian Deacon keepeth himself within the limites of the office he is called vnto , and doth not intermeddle with th' execution of their offices which belong not vnto him , as the administration of the worde and sacraments &c : But these Cathedral Deacons take vpon them the ministrie of the worde and sacraments , manie of them hauing personages beside their Deanerie ; And hauing bene Pastors before , yet for liuing and promotions sake , are not ashamed to goe backe to the Deacons Office , or to retaine both offices . Neither doth the christian Deacon vsurpe such place , preeminence , and dignitie in the Church to sit in one of the chiefe roomes with his velvet quishon , clo●h of estate , or be brought to his place with a siluer mace before him . To conclude , these Cathedral Popish Deanes haue nothing common or like to a christian Deacon , either in office , caling to their office , administration of their office , or place where they administer . Therfore what titles soeuer they carrie , or pretextes they make , we may affirme them to be impes of Antichrist , to belong to his spouse and throne , the false Church : And not to be those holy Ministers , those christian Deacons , which CHP●IST hath instituted to his Church .

Of Subdeanes or their office we reade not in CHRISTS Testament . And as to those idle bellies those Prebendes , we knowe not what to make of them : Ministers of this Church , yea ful Priestes they should be , in that they are bownde to make . 4. sermons in the yeere in their Cathedral : yet are some of them Ciuilians ( as they terme them ) lay Persons . But yt is no noueltie in the Church of ENGLAND , For Ecclesiastical Ministers to exercise ciuile offices , and likewise for ciuile persons to vsurpe & possesse offices in the Church , both of gouernement , as in their Courtes abouesaid , and of the ministrie of the worde & sacraments , as Prebe●des , Parsonages , and those not impropriate &c. Of such Monkish secluding and gathering the Ministers of their Church into these Colleges , Halles , Cloisters we haue alreadie spoken . As also of their idolatrous and false worship which they exercise : Of the seueral rites & ceremonies that these stalled bulles vse therin , here to discourse , were long & tedious : Or to stand to refute the vnlawfulnes of these Mother Cathedral Churches , where Sathans throne is , wherin sit his lieutenants these Arch & Lord Bishops , wherin are the Colleges of these idolatrous Priestes & loyterers , whose verie names being but recited , & the light of the gospel being but brought to their College & Cloister doores , is enough to discouer them of what stampe and broode they are . Yea let this light of the Gospell be brought to the tryal of their ministrie & ministration , though nothing be said to them , but they only put to approue themselues by Gods worde , you shall see them discouer themselues of what kingdome & spirit they are , defending themselues with their nayles & tongues , smiting al such as thus call their doings into this question with the fist of wickednes , and with the tongue of reproch , as by their prisons & bookes is to be seene ; The one being ful of poore persecuted christians in great distresse and miserie , without any iudgment or help by lawe , without any equitie , mercie , or compassion shewed ; The other being ful euen in euerie leafe , yea almost in euerie line of wicked sclanders , accusations , suggestions , blasphemies against these faithful seruantes of CHRIST their aduersaries . Not approuing their ministrie , worship , and procedings directly by any one place of scripture , though they be neuer so much vrged thervnto . But if they haue no better defence , their kingdome shal be left vnto them desolate , as their bretheren the L. Abbots , Monckes , Fryars , and Nonnes are . Al which might aswel ( for any thing I can fee , or they can say ) haue bene reserued , reformed , and tyed to the saijng ouer this seruice book as these , all being alike without warrant in Gods worde , and therfore detestable & accursed .

IT now remayneth that we take like sodaine viewe of the third sorte , the seruile ministrie of the Church of England ; namely these Parsons , Vicares , Curates , Hirelings , Preachers , Deacons . These were blamed to Mr. Giffard to carye strange & antichristian Names & Offices , also to haue as strange & antichristian an entrance vnto their office & administration in their office , as also that their support & maintenance is not such , as belongeth to the ministrie of the Gospell . In these poinctes we desired Mr. G. to approoue the ministrie of Eng●and , or his owne ministrie by the rules of CHRISTS Testament . This if he had donne , al controuersie had ceased , and we yeilded . Al this by his owne bare worde of affirmation & neuer a place of scripture , he proueth in lesse then one page of his booke . He affirmeth their names to be Ministers of the Gospell , Pastors , and Teachers . That the names of Parsons & Vicares are not to make any distinction of the ministrie , but of the maintenance annexed to the same . That the Offices they beare , are to teach & instruct their flockes by the wholesome worde of God , to administer the sacramentes , and to make publick prayers . These he is sure are prescribed in CHRISTES Testament , and if our eye were not malignant we might espie them there .

THAT these names & offices of Pastor & Teacher , with this administration spoken of , are in CHRISTS Testament , we neuer doubted or made question , but now whether these Parsons , Vicares , Cura●es , Hired Preachers , carie , trulie haue , and execute the names , offfices , and functions of these christian Pastors & Teachers , all the doubt is . And more then Mr. GIFFARD his bare worde , we as yet haue not to assure vs therof : although we haue even with importunitie begged and vrged him , or any of his fellowes , either directly to approue their ministrie by the rules of CHRISTS Testament in their Office Entrance and Administration : Or ells to prooue vnto vs by the worde of God that such Offices , Entrance vnto and Administration in their offices , is not now necessarie and of necessitie in the Church of CHRIST : but that the Prince ( whose honorable name they ouer much abuse to the patronizing of all their abhominations ) or rather the POPE ( to whose kingdome this antichristian ministrie serued ) hath power to erect a newe & other ministrie in office , entrance , and administration vnto the Church , then that of Christes Testament . In al which if this ministrie of England cannot by th' expresse rules of the word be iustified , al the powers in earth or Hel cannot make them the true Ministers of the Gospel . For other ministrie & offices of the gospel is not giuen or to be giuen vnto the Church , then those CHRIST hath instituted in his Testament . Neither may any other Entrance or Administration be ioyned to that Ministrie & those offices , then is in CHRISTS Testament appoynted . If therfore we shew that these Ministers haue not those offices , that entrance , or administration mentioned in Christes Testament , it shal be enough to shew them conterfeite , strange , and antichristian .

First then by Mr. Giff● his leaue , we must a litle insiste euen vpon these strange names of Parson & Vicare , which were giuen by their first founders & creators at the erection of their ministrie & offices , and are not read of in all the booke of God : Neither are any of those names which our Sauiour Christ hath giuen & knyt vnto his ministrie , for the distinguishing & expressing of their seueral offices , and therfore can at no hand belong vnto the ministri of the Gospel . Neither may any mortal man be so presumptions to giue other names & denominations vnto his reuerend ministrie & holie offices , then the Lord of the house himself hath giuen . Neither may or will the true Ministers of Christ carye any other names or titles ( as in regarde of their ministri or office ) then Christ hath giuen to their ministrie & office . But Mr. Giff. denieth these names to make any distinction of their ministri , but only of the state of maintenance annexed vnto the same . Let vs then aske him one question ; what difference is there betwixt the Arch and Lord Bishops , and the parish Parsons and Vicares of the Church of ENGLAND in respect of their ministrie , if these names be not giuen to put difference betwixt , and distinction of the● office & ministrie ? I trust he will not say these Lord Bishops & Parsons haue al one office & ministrie in their Church . I belieue his Ordinarie wil hardly agree to him in this poynte . Let him finde therfore a newe distinction to help this matter . Againe , we could say to M. Giffard , that these names of Parsons and Vicares do not only distinguish their ministrie from their Lord Bishops Arch-Deacons , Deanes &c , but yet maketh a distinction euen amongst themselues , betwixt them & such of their other rouing Ministers , which haue no certaine flocke or chardge , but as sone as they are made Ministers vnto and of any one certaine flock , then take they forthwith their denomination of that flocke or towne , as the Bishops doe of the greate Cities , and are then & not before called Parsons or Vicares of such a Towne . To conclude , these names of Parson & Vicare being distinct names , and hauing distinct liuings appropriate vnto them , belonging also to one & the same church or Towne , and being giuen to two diuers men & so possessed at one and the same tyme , cannot but belong to two diuers offices of their Church , Except two men may also haue & execute one & the same office at the same instant , as wel as one man may execute two or moe diuers offices of their Church at one instant . But sure these Paradoxes are so inaudible & incredible , yea so impossible in the Church of CHRIST , as I see not how all Mr. Giffard his logique and learning can reconcile them to the Testament of CHRIST .

But to come to the offices of these Parsons & Vicares , Mr. Giff ▪ saith ( if we may belieue him ) they are Pastors & Teachers , yet setteth vs not downe who be the Pastors , & who be the Teachers of their Church . It should seeme by his speach that these two , the Parson and Vicare , are one office , namely , Pastors , and that such hireling Predicantes as himself are the Teachers of this Church of England . Let vs first consider of their Pastors , by comparing them to the Pastors office . The true christian Pastor is placed of God in his house his church , Tit. 1. 7. as a Steward both to diuide the portion , Math. 24. 45. and to ouersee , take chardge & looke to the order & gouernement of that Church , Marc. 13. 34 wherof he is chosen & made a Minister , & of al the publicke actions therof , 1 Tim. 5. 17. togither with the other Elders . But these Parsons by vertue of their office & ministrie , Heb. 13. 17. are not bounde to labour in the worde , otherwi●e , then to preach . 4. sermons in the yeere , either by himself or by his substitute , and that not by law , except his benefice exceede a certaine annual somme in the Queenes booke . Otherwise they are but bounde to reade the seruice pre●cribed in the common booke , at such tymes and tides as is there inioyned , to weare the Priestes attire , to reade iniunctions and homelies &c. Neither are they permitted , or by vertue of their office may intermeddle , with the ouersight , order , and gouernement of that flocke wherof they are Parsons . CHRIST nowe in his Church hath instituted no ecclesiasticall office aboue the Pastors office . Rom. 12. Neither may anie true christian Pastor stand , or exercise his office vnder anie such false ecclesiasticall office , Gal. 2. 4. 5. as CHRIST hath not instituted ; Iohn . 10. 12 But there are sondrie offices in the Church of England aboue the Parsons office . Acts. 20. 29 Vnto which superior offices al these Parsons stand subiect , 3 Iohn . 9. 10 hauinge sworne their Canonical obedience to their Courtes , Cannons , commandements , to their sommance , censure , controlement , for al their actions , ministrie , conversation , to be made Ministers , deposed from their ministrie , silenced , sequestred , suspended by them . 2 Tim. 2. 4 The true christian Pastor ( as by vertue of his office ) intangleth not himself , Acts. 6. 2 neither intermedleth with ●iuile actions and affayres , But these parrish Parsons ( especialie these of the Countrie ) are busied , 1 Pet. 4. 15 and almost wholly entangled with renting , 1 Tim. 3. 3 tithing , prowling their Parrishners , whether faithfull or vnfaithfull , Ezek. 13. riche or poore , Widowes or O●phanes , they marrie , Mat. 23. 14. they burie &c , by vertue of their office , and are ●o all outwarde seeming and iudgment rather Rieues and Bayliffes , Phil. 3. 18. 19. then Ministers of the Gospel . Yea if it be true which some writers of no smale accompt both olde and new haue written of them , these parrish Parsons were at the first deuised and brought in to serue the Metropolitanes in the offices of Rieues and Bayliffs to gather vp their rents , &c. Againe the true christian Pastors office cannot be possessed by anie ciui●e person . But the parrish Parsons office may be , and often is , bestowed vpon Ci●ilians , Phis●●ons , who , if they weare the Priestes weedes inioyned . It sufficeth . Not here meaning or speaking of impropriatio●s which haue no office and chardge of anie Ministrie , yt being transferred to a Vicare endo●ed : Moreouer the christian Pastors office cannot be kept or executed by a man absent , or by anie other in that Congregation wherof he is chosen , then by the elect of that Congregation . But the Parrish Parsons office may be kept by a man absent , executed by an Attourney or Curaeie . Finnaly , Acts. 20. euerie true christian Pastor is by that his officie , 1 Tim. 3. a Bishop . But no Parrish Parson is by vertue of that his office a Bishop . T●t. 1. Therfore and for al these reasons abouesayd the parrish Parsons office can in no iuste intendement be held the true christian Pastors office .

NOwe let vs procede to their entrance , this being first a position perpetual , H●b. 5. 4 That euerie true Minister of the Churche must not onlie be caled to a true office , Iohn . 10 but must haue a true & right caling vnto that his office : Nomb. 16. 5. 40. otherwise he is no true Minister , but an vsurper , an intruder , a theife , a murderer . Euerie true Minister then , by the rules of the worde ought to be thus caled . Euerie perticular Congregation being a faithfull flocke , destitute of some Minister ( for example of a Pastor ) ought to make choice of some one faithful christian , of whose vertues , knowledge , iudgment , 1 Tim. 3. fitnes , and conversation ( according to the rules in that behalf prescribed ) they haue assured proofe and experience in Tit. 1. some christian Congregation or other , Acts. 14. where he hath liued . Such a one , the whole Congregation being gathered together in the name of God with fasting & prayer for the especial assistance of his holy spirite , to be directed to that person whom the Lo●de hath made meete and appointed vnto them for that high chardge and Ministrie . In which Election euerie perticular member of the said Congregation hath his peculiar interest of assent or dissent , shewing his reasons of dissent in reuerent maner , not disturbing the holie and peaceable order of the Church . Whose exceptions and reasons are to be considered of , and compared to the rules of the worde , if they be founde peremptorie and true . As the partie to be of no founde iudgment in the faith , of no sufficient knowledge in the scriptures , a drunckarde , a smiter , coveteous , one that ruleth not wel his owne house , wife , children &c. than yeildeth the whole Church to their reasons , or rather to the word of God . But if their exceptions be vnsufficient or vntrue , then procedeth and stand●th their Election , and the persons that take them are publicklie reprou●d , according to their offence . This choice thus made , accepted , and determined , the elect is to be publicklie ordayned and receiued in and of the same Congregation , wherof and whervnto he is chosen . If there be an Eldership in that Congregation , by them , as the most meete instruments , with fasting , prayer , exhortations &c , if not , then by the help of the Elders of some other faithful Congregation , one Churche being to help and assist an other in these affaires . But if the defection and apostasie be so generall as there be not anie where anie true Elders to be founde , or conveniently to be had , yet then hath the Church that hath power and commandement to chuse and to vse Ministers , yea that only hath that most high and great spirituall power of our Lorde Iesus Christ vpon earth committed vnto their handes , power also to ordaine their Ministers by the most fit members and meanes they haue . For the Eldership doth not add more power , but more helpe and seruice to the Church in this action . Neither doth this action ( which is but a publishing of that former contract and agreement betwixt the whole Church and these elect , the Church giuing & the elect receiuing these offices as by the commandement of God with mutuall couenant and vowe each to other in al dueties ) belonge to the Elders onlie as separate from the Church , but to the Elders as the most fit members and instruments of the Churche , to doe yt for and in the Churche . Otherwise , when the true ministrie ceased , as in the generall apostasie , they could neuer againe be recouered in the Church : because they cannot haue this ordination of true christian Elders , and so must the ministrie , sacraments , and ordinances of Christes Testament cease for euer , and the true established Churche neuer be seene againe vpon earth : Vnlesse with the Papistes they ●il make a personal succession of Ministers in some place euer since the Apostles tyme . Or with Mr. Giffard make a true publick ministrie , sacraments &c , in the Church of Rome in the diepest apostasie . Which yet of al other is the most absurd Proposition that euer I suppose was vttered by anie man , or published and allowed by anie Churche , contrarie to al the rules of Gods worde , and euen to it self . For how can there be by anie reasonable man immagined or seene publicke apostasie , and publick faith in the same estate , at one and the same instant ? Likewise if of necessity the ordination must always be donne by a christian Presbutrie or Eldership , we woulde then knowe of them by what Elders Mr. Luther , Mr. Ca●uine , or our Englishe Bishopps in K. EDWARDES daies were ordayned . Other Elders then of the Popish Churche there were not then to be founde . Now these are sure groundes that cannot be doubted of . The true ministrie of Christ doth not belonge vnto , and may execute no ministrie in the false Churche . Neither yet hath the execrable ministrie of the false Church anie thing to doe to ordaine the true ministrie of CHRISTES Churche , neither is their Ordination auaileable . If then the Churche of Rome and the ministrie therof were false and antichristian , then cannot the ministrie of these men which was then in that estate giuen and receiued , be esteamed the true ministrie of CHRIST belonging to his Church . But now if they hold the Church of Rome the true Churche , and her Elders true Ministers of Christ , then is it vtterly vnlawfull to with-drawe , depart , or separate from the true Church at anie tyme : And then were al these , and are al they in a most deadlie schisme : Mr. Caluins distinction , that he separated from the corruptions of the Churche of Rome , and not from the Churche of Rome , wil not here stand . For therby they confesse the Churche of Rome the true Church , and that they for the corruptions of the Church departe . Which corruptions if they be not such and so incurable as to make the Church of Rome no Churche , then is it not lawfull for anie such corruptions to depart from , and to forsake the true Church , and then are they all stil in schisme ▪ by their owne doctrine , and so no true Ministers . This I haue thus lardglie written of the true Election and Ordination of Ministers , because I finde so great ignorance and error amongst the Diuines of the Churche of ENGLAND therin . Some of them ( as the most reformed ) that seeme to seeke CHRISTES Discipline ( as they cal yt ) holde , that Elections and Ordinations ought to be donne by the Presbutrie , at the least the ordination allwaies of necessitie . Others of them , the more grosse of the common sorte , that holde with the time , giue the Election to the Patrone , the Ordination to the Bishop onlie .

LEt vs now come to the election , probation , ordination of this parte of the ministery of the Church of England , which exactly to set downe in euerie perticularlie circumstance , I cannot , not hauing their booke of Consecration . Election of their Ministrie ( for anie thing that euer I could heare ) they haue none , only the Bi●hop appoynteth a certaine day and place when he will giue ( or rather sel ) Orders . Thither then repaire vnto him all such as want other meanes to geate their liuing , poore , idle , inordinate walkers , to whom the ministrie is an vl●●um refugiam : None here staying for the caling of God in his Church , but running before they be sent : Hither to this market these hungrie foxes flocke . There they are by certaine of the Bi●hopps substitutes , examined , if so be that they be vnder the degree of Masters of their Artes , for al double graduates neede no probation , their hoodes of both shoulders shewe that they haue learning & diuinitie enough : And as for proofe of their honestie and vertue , that is not material , that is not required or looked after in this busines , except they be so euill beloued as some come to crye shame of them at that verie tyme : Which if they doe , yet must the matters be too badd and broade , that wil be receiued there . And as to this probation that is there made , it is but to know whether they haue the latine tongue , and how they can construe some sentence of some aucthor . If they be not prompt they shall be holpen , or haue more easie questions , or tyme giuen them , if so be they haue anie fauour with Mr. Examiners , they are verie meane clarkes which are there refused or sent away if they bring money in their purse , without which there is no ministrie to be had in the Church of England . Such other as yet cannot endure this seuere tryal , hauing only their mother tongue , are to resorte to their Lord Bishop at his house more secretly ; where if they can make anie friend vnto him , they shal not misse of their desire ; for the Bishop maie , or at least doth make Ministers , aswel privatlie in his owne house , as publickly at this sollemne tyme & place . But these approued , they are brought arayed in their white Ministeriall vesture , vnto the Bishops chayre , where he solemnelie sitteth in his pontificalibus . At whose feete these Ministers that woulde be , are caused to kneele downe ; where hauing certaine articles read vnto them , vnto which they are sworne & subscribe , then are they by the Bishops owne mouth made and pronounced Ministers , vzt . Deacons , certaine chapters of the Bible enioyned them as a taske to reade euerie daye , as also certaine bookes to studie diligently : his orders also with the Bishops great seale at them in a Boxe , are deliuered them ; for which they must paye full sweetlie . Thus is he made half Priest , to reade the booke and serue a Cure , but not to enterprise to preach without the Bishops special licence written , sealed , and wel paied for , thervnto : neither may he administer the sacraments , vntil he haue his ful orders , and be made ful Priest . Yet nowe is he a fit Curate for anie parish , a fit Clarke for anie benefice , come by yt where he can , For here is he made Minister of the Church of England in general , without certaine flock or chardge , and is sent into the wide worlde with his licence to geat him a liuing where he may . Wherbie sondrie of them ( by reason of the multitudes that are dailie made ) are driuen to make verie harde shifte , to teach young children , or to become house-Priests ( I meane not nowe Chaplains , for they are rufflers ) for verie meane wage . Yet must I needes saye , the Bishop taketh an especiall care to preuent this , for he hath certaine of their sufficient friendes to be bounde I thincke , or ells to testifie , that they haue 5. poundes by yeere to liue vpon ; lest indeede the Bishop himself shoulde be after chardged to finde them , by an especiall Cannon made in the behalf of poore Priestes and Ministers .

Wel , being nowe stepped into the ministrie , it is not longe for the most part ( especiallie if anie benefice befal them ) before they be made full Priestes either by the Bishop priuately , or publickly at such day & place aboue-said . Where they are againe examined how they haue performed their taske enioyned , and how they haue profited in the studie of diuinitie . Wherein being approued , they are in maner & attire abouesaid , placed at the Bishops feete ; who now layeth his handes vpon them , deliuereth them the Bible , and breathing his vnholy spirit vpon them giueth them the holy Ghost ( as he blasphemously saith ) and sendeth them foorth vnto all people to preach and deliuer the sacraments , These men by this office ordination and sending should be Apostles . Mat● . 28. 18. 19. Io● . 20. 21. 22. for as yet there is no certaine chardge of flocke mentioned . Where these Priestes hauing sworne their Canonical obedience , and againe Subscribed , paying for his Orders & al other fees , are now made ful Priestes in any ground in England .

This common sort thus Priestified , either serue Cures , or by some meanes or other geat a benefice by Presentation or Resignation &c. And here must the Patrone that oweth the Advowson present him to the Bishop , And what high office then exerciseth the Bishop that ●aketh & sendeth foorth Apostles & giueth them the Holie Ghost . as his Clarke ; To whom this Priest must yet againe subscribe , and then receiueth the Bishopps institution in writing , with his seale thereat , which must be well paied for also . This Priest thus instituted , cometh with his letters and seales to his parish , and taketh possession of his parsonage : where he must be inducted , an other Priest deliuering him the keye of the Church doore , which he must open , and enter ; where he hath a bell-rope put into his hand , and must knole a Bell : After which a peale is ronge , and he caried to some feaste-house or other , insteade of fasting and prayer . And thus haue you hearde the maner of the Election , Prob●tion , and Ordination of these Pastors & Teachers of the Church of England . Which if it can by any learning or conning be prooued that holie caling which is prescribed in CHRISTS Testament , and which may not be seuered from the ministrie of the Gospell , then haue they the more to reioyce , and we to repent , before the Lorde .

And now whether we haue lyed ( as Mr. GIF . verie boldly chardgeth vs ) in saying that their ministrie is imposed vpon these Churches , let the indifferent reader iudge . Yea let him also consider , what kinde of interest , freedome , and power these parishes haue to chuse & ordaine their owne Ministers , The people neuer seeing or knowing their Minister , vntil he come with his letters of institution , or hauing any thing to doe at his ordination ; he being made ful Priest , yea & their Priest , and that whether they will or no , before he come at them . And let Mr. GIFFARD himself looke what power any parish in England hath to disanull the Patrones Presentation , the Bishops ordination and institution . The Bishop he ordayneth them Ministers , though he or his examiners neuer sawe or knewe the men before that present howre : He maketh them Ministers to no certaine flocke or chardge , therfore can no peculiar flocke haue interest in their election & ordination . The Patrone whatsoeuer he be , whether Woman , childe , Foole , wicked Person , Papist , ( yea worse , if worse may be ) he presenteth his Clarke to that benefice , though he be an hundred miles off from the Bishop ; and the Bi●hop , though he knowe neither parish nor Minister , must admit , or ells lyeth a Q●are impedit to compel him . The Priest thus instituted , he cometh to the parish , taketh possession of the Parsonage , and theire Minister he will be , whether the people will or not ; they must receiue him , and may not keep him out , how bad soeuer he be . And whereas Mr. GIFF. bringeth instance to prooue that the ministrie is not imposed , because that sondrie flockes haue those Pastors & Ministers of the Gospel that they haue desired and made choice of by sute vnto the Patrones , and to the parties whom they desire to haue . This yet more sheweth their bondage , in that they are driuen to make sute vnto their Patrones , and to receiue from him their ministrie ; which I belieue Mr. Giff. shal neuer be able to shew that any christian Congregation did or might doe . And to the choice he speaketh of , I weene they were Ministers , yea Pastors , before they chose them ; And being so , they then by the rules of CHRISTS Testament ought to belonge vnto some certaine and peculiar flockes ; which if they do , how then may they chuse the Pastor of an other flocke to make him their Pastor ? what kinde of choice will M. Giff. make his ? whilest he goeth about to stop the gap , he maketh it wider . But now to their chopping , chaunging , and leauing of their benefices at their owne pleasures as more gaynful are offred , without the peoples priuitie or consent ( which is an vsual trade amongst them all , not one amongst a thousand that doth not thus flitt vp & downe , and Mr. Giff ▪ none of those odd ones ) for this he had not one excuse coyned , we must stay vntil the minte go the third tyme . And then let him also consider , how these parish Parsons may without the peoples consent or liking be absent & liue away from the flock as longe as they liste , euen al the dayes of their life if they will , finding them a Cura●e a iourney man , to reade them their seruice , marrie , burie &c , and 4. sermons in the yeere , which they may also do by their attorney . These thinges if Mr. GIFF. can shew that a christian Pastor may lawfully doe , then at length shal he shew them like a christian Pastor in some thing .

NOw to the Teachers office of their Church of ENGLAND ; except they make their Bishopps & Parsons to be both Pastors & Teachers , and to execute both offices , we know not what he should meane ; For we finde no such office in their Church . Their Vniuersitie Doctors haue this title rather in ostentation of their learning , then by vertue of any office ecclesiasticall . This title is giuen aswell to other sciences , as Phisick , Ciuile lawe &c , as to Diuinitie . Their Ciuile Doctors execute other offices of their Church , as to be Iudges of Courtes , Commissaries , Chaunsclours , Commissioners , neither are busied in teaching , therfore they cannot be said to haue a Teachers office . Their Doctors of Diuinitie are either Bishops , Deanes , Arch-Deacons , Parsons , Vicares , or ful Priestes , al which meddle with the administration of the Sacraments , and are distinct offices from the Teachers office , and therfore not the same . Neither may two distinct or diuers offices of the Church be possessed or executed by one & the same person at once , except they can proue it possible for one member to be both an eye & an eare or hand , Rom. 12. 5. and to execute their functions at once . These officers are caled members of CHRISTS bodie his Church , 1 Cor. 12. these offices are distinct & seueral : Men with seueral giftes & graces by the distribution of God himself are appointed thervnto : whose holie order they breake , besides all other inconveniences and impossibilities that insue therof , which thus presume in their owne persons to execute sondrie offices of the Church at one tyme . Furder , the churches of England haue allowed them by lawe but one Priest each of them ( which roome possessed , they are said to be full ) except some few which haue Parson and Vicare , or two Parsons in a towne , both which meddle with th' administration of their Sacraments , and therfore cannot be said to haue the T●achers office . As to these Curates & stipendarie Preachers , they are either full Priestes , or but half priestes or Deacons . The ful Priestes all of them by office may administer the Sacraments . The half Priestes none of them by office may preach or expounde the word , without especial licence , Therfore neither the one or the other of these haue the christian Teachers office .

And now to the stipendarie Preachers let vs for example insiste vpon Mr. Giffardes owne ministrie ; he writeth himself Minister of Gods holie worde in MALDON . We would know of him in what office he doth administ●r vnto this Church . We reade in CHRISTS Testament but of two Ministers of the worde now belonging to his Church . The Pastor & the Teacher ▪ Pastor of that Church he is not ; because they haue an other allowed by lawe , which is also his Pastor , ( and that to his furder shame a double beneficed man . ) Teacher there he is not ; because that Church hath no such office , and is full ; as also because this man is ful Priest , and ( as ●haue heard ) was sometime a Vicare ( a Pastor he saith ) from which his ministrie & place he is nowe depriued , departed , and apostatate , as also from all grace and feeling . Neither hath he in MALDON the credite or roome so much as of a Curate , the Pastor there supplying his owne office , but is brought in by such of the Parish as hauing itching eares , 2 Tim. 4. 3. geate vnto themselues an heape of newe fangled teachers after their owne lustes , disliking & lothing the ministrie that is set ouer them , to which not-withstanding in hypocrisie and for feare of the world they ioyne in prayers & sacramentes , paye tythes & maintenance , as to their proper Minister .

To such people being riche and able to pay them well , Rom. 16. 18 these sectorie precise Preachers runne for their hire and wages , Phil. 31. 19. but chiefly for vaine-glorie & wordlie estimation . And there teache and preach this people for the most parte , vnder some dumbe or plurified Pastor : from whom as from vnsufficient and blinde guides they withdraw not the people , shewing them the will of God in that or in anie other poyncte , Acts. 20. 27 be it neuer so odious and abhominable , Gal. 5. 11. that might bring perill . Yet for their owne estimation , Gal. 4. 17. aduantage , and entertainement , they will by all subtile meanes vnder hand seek to abalienate the heartes and mindes of this forewarde and best inclyned people from these their Pastors , 1 Thes. ● . 3. 4. 5. 6. and slily to drawe them vnto themselues . Ezek. 13. 18. Long it were to relate their artes and engines , Ier. 23. 30. wherbie they hunte and entangle poore soules : their counterfeit shewes of holines , Math. 23. grauitie , austerenes of maners , precisenes in triffles , lardge conscience in matters of greatest waight , especially of any danger ; strayning a gnat and swallowing a Camel ; hatred and thundring against some sinne , tollerating yea colouring some other in some speciall persons ; cunning insinuating into , and neuer offending the riche , nor regarding the poore ; holding and with-holding the knowen truth of God in respect of tymes , places , and persons ; dissembling , hiding , with-holding yt in their publick ministrie and doctrines , where yt may draw them into any trouble or tryall ; yea balking , if not peruerting , the euident scriptures as they arise against any publicke enormitie of the tyme , vnder the coloure of peace , christian policie , and wisdome . Wherebie these Scorpions so poyson & stinge euery good conscience , so leauen them with hypocrisie , and teach them to halt with the times , dissembling with God and their owne conscience , that such proselytes as are wonne vnto them , become two-fold more the children of Hel then they were before . ● Tim. 3. Yea so is their whole auditorie entangled with their snares , as skarce any of them ( without the especial mercie of God ) are euer recouered , brought to any soundnes , stability , or vpright walking , to any conscience , true faith , or feare of God . Herehence ariseth these schismes and sectes in the Church of ENGLAND , 1 Cor. 3. some holding with these Preachers , which make shewe as though they sought a sinceare reformation of all thinges according to the Gospell of CHRIST , and yet both execute a false ministrie themselues , and they , together with all their hearers and followers , stand vnder that throne of Antichrist , G●l. 6. 12. the Bishops their Courtes , and accomplices , and all those detestable enormities which they would haue vtterly remoued & not reformed : And these are herevpon called Precitians , or Purit●nes , and nowe lately Martinistes . The other opposite ●ide are the Pontificales , that in al thinges hold & iumpe with the tyme , and are readie to iustifie whatsoeuer is or shal be by publick authoritie established . And with these hold al the rabble of Atheists , dissembling Papistes , old & luke-warme Protestantes , Libertines , dissolute and facinorous persons , and such as haue no knowledge or feare of God . Euen that antient sect of the Pharasies and Saduces . the one in precisenes , outward shewe of holines , hypocrisie , vaine-glorie , coueteousnes , resembling or rather exceading the Pharasies : the other in their whole religion , and dissolute conuersation like vnto the Saduces , loking for no resurrection , iudgment , or life to come , confessing God with their lippes , and seruing him after their careles maner , but denying him in their hearte , yea openly in their deedes , as their whole life and all their worckes declare . Longe it were , and not my purpose in this place , to shewe howe these Pharasie , Sectorie Teachers , these stipendarie rouing predicantes , that haue no certaine office or place assigned them in their Church , I●de 11. 13 verse . but like wandring starres remooue from place to place for their greatest aduantage and best intertainement , in the error of Bala●m powred out for wage , seduce and distracte the people of the lande , drawing them from their owne Churches and Ministers , some to this , some to that Preacher by heapes , each one as he standeth affected to him that best fitteth his humore . Mie desire rather here is to shewe the forgerie of this whole Ministrie of the Church of England in their false office and entrance , aswel these precise esteemed Preachers , as the parrish Parsons and Curates : which I hope by this which is said either is or may be donne : Nowe yt remayneth that wee procede to their administration and mainetenance .

OF their Administration we haue aboue in the discouery of their publicke worship more perticularlie intreated , finding yt wholly according to that erroneous apochripha popish Leitourgie , that idolatrous abhominable booke of their seruice , whervnto they are bounde , whereby they are stinted & nourrered in al thinges , vpon what dayes , eaues & houres through the yeere to come to Church , what garmentes to weare in the Church , where and when to fit , stand , and kneele , what & howe much to reade at this and that tyme , at this and that lesson , Pistle , Gospel . When to reade , when to singe , when to praye , where to verse , when to Collect : with all other circumstances , ceremonies , trinckets in their Sacraments , Marriages , Purifications , Visitations , Burialls &c , as is in that parte of the treatise ( though sommarily , yet more playnely ) declared , whervnto I refer the reader . Here only affirming , that this their deuised , abhominable , idolatrous worship , miserable abuse and high prophanation of scriptures , open port-sale , and wilful sacrilege of their Ministerie and Sacramens , to the most prophane and vngodly , doe sufficiently declare what kinde of Ministerie they execute , and Ministers they are . Howe possible yt is to ioyne or to make the holy Gospel and Ministrie of Christ accorde vnto this people in this confusion , ignorance , and sinne , or to these deuises & tromperiers , Iere. 23. 2● . let anie in whom is anie light iudge , when light and darcknes can be mingled togeather , or the stubble & strawe remaine in the flambing-fire vnconsumed , then shal this be .

Yet furder to manifest what kinde of Preachers of the Gospel they are , and preaching of the Gospel they make , let their most heynous & open professed perfidie in betraying their whole Ministrie , Gospel , Church , Christ and al into the handes of their Lords these antichristian Bishops , shewe , from whose apostatical Chaire they haue receiued their ministrie , to whose orders and iniunctions they haue subscribed , to whose Courtes & power they haue sworne their Canonical obedience : from whom they haue receiued their licence and aucthority to preach , Gal. 1. 10. 〈◊〉 with condition not to preach against any thing by publick aucthority established , how vngodly and enormous soeuer they be : And also haue submitted their whole doctrines & persons to these their Ordinances not to teach anie truth , or against anie error that they inhibite , to preach , or cease to preach , to administer or cease to administer , at their direction and inhibition : And for their priuate estate , by them to be enioyned what kind of apparel to weare when they ride , walke abroade , or administer : Not to marrie without their knowledge , Gal. 2. 4. 5 consent , or licence euen to this or that perticular woman &c. Must not this needes be an excellent ministrie and ministration of the Gospel that is thus mancipate to and by these slaues , that is thus bought and solde , limited , prescribed , restrayned ? when they can proue that the Gospel may be in this maner vsed in the true Churche of CHRIST , or preached by the true Ministrie of Christ , we wil then yeild to their whole ministration , and acknowledg them the true Ministers of Christ . But in the meane while because this is impossible , and cannot without blasphemie be enterprised , without sinne be thought ; because also we finde vpon this present Ministrie of theirs , euen al the markes of the false Prophet , that are written in the booke , and al the markes of the Beast , we must hold them as they are , except we wil with them condemne the truth of God , and call CHRIST execrable .

Neither yet is this their preaching ( considered euen in yt self ) set apart from all the abuses and enormities aboue recited , such , as they glorie of , abounding with such great learning , excellent giftes , and rare graces of the spirit , or answearable to that heauenly exercise of prophecie in Christes Church . Of their education and learning euen from the grammer schole to the pulpit , you haue alreadie hearde : as also their Diuinity to be traditional , wholly deriued from other mens writinges and books , both for the vnderstanding , diuiding , and interpretation of al scriptures , as also for all doctrines , questions , and doubtes that arise , and not springing from the fountaine of Gods spirit in themselues , according to the measure of knowledge , faith , and grace giuen them . So that these dumbe blinde guides and watchmen doe but see with other mens eyes , but speake with other mens mouthes , and ( as one of their chief aucthors saith of them ) without these bookes they as are blinde as molles , as mute as fishes , not able of themselues to decide , open , and interprete almost anie scripture , Or to discusse , iudge , or decide anie doubt , or controversie with assurance . And therfore when anie newe question vnwritten of before ariseth , they are either al at a full poyncte not knowing what to saye to the matter , Or ells when they speake , so manie opinions and sentences , as speakers . Yea euen in the thinges they reade and teache ( there being so great diuersitie & contrarietie amongst these Writers their aucthors ) there also ensueth great difference & contrarietie in their doctrines which they publicklie deliuer , One teaching one thing in one place , an other the quite contrarie in an other . And this not onlie in interpretation and vnderstanding of sondrie , yea almost all places of scripture , but euen in most waightie ( and as they call them ) fundamentall poynctes of doctrine . As whether the Church of Rome be to be esteemed a true Churche or no ▪ The Sacraments there deliuered , and the Ministrie there ordayned , be ●o be held true sacraments , and a true Ministrie or no. Also if the ordinances , order , and outward gouernment of Christes Church left in Christes Testament be perpetual & of necessitie to be obserued &c. And al this diuersitie & contrarietie of iudgment publickly taught in their Church , must be coloured and passed ouer with this sweete sentence of Mr. Giff. That they are but brotherly dissentions , they agree in al fundamentall doctrines . A happie tourne it were , that those fundamental doctrines were once agreed vpon and set downe , that wee might then knowe which part of CHRISTES Testament is fundamentall and of necessitie , and which is accidental and not necessarie , but variable and at mans wil. In the meane while wee must stil belieue that CHRIST is not yea and naye , 2 Cor. 1. 1● of one minde in one place , of an other ells where . Neither that the spirite of God can rule in both places , where such contrarie doctrines are taught and maintayned . We also are taught , that howsoeuer bretheren through ignorance maie doubt and differ in iudgment for a ceason , yet are they no there vpon to teach such thinges as they are not assured of , lest they publish and sowe errors : Which who so doth , be he man or Angel that teacheth any other thing or otherwise then Chris. . Gal. 1. 8 and his Apostles haue taught and deliuered , Rom. 16. 17. or causeth diuision & dissention contrarie to their doctrine , 1 Tim. 6. 3 or commeth not to the wholesom wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ &c , wee are to hold them accursed , to watch , and auoide them .

Likewise , 1 Corin. 14. 29. 30. 31. 32. the maner of their pulpit preaching nothing 〈◊〉 to the order of Christes Church , where the Prophets I meane such as are knowen to haue the gift of interpretation of scriptures ) haue al of them libertie to speake , Rom. 12. 6 what God reueileth vnto them besides that which hath bene deliuered , 1 Pet. 4. 10. 11. so that they neither hinder , disturbe , or interrupte the publick ministerie of the Churche , but vse their libertie opportunely & holily to edification . They haue libertie also , yea their especial dutie it is , to obserue and publickly to reproue anie false interpretation , or false Doctrine deliuered publicklie in the Church , by whom soeuer ; Yea this power hath the least member of the Church in due order and place , if the Prophets and Elders should ouersee , omit , neglect , or refuse . The whole Church also , euen euerie peculiar Christian Congregation , hath power in yt self to censure not onlie anie doctrine deliuered , but the person of anie member or Minister of the same congregation . But here in these Babilonish Synagogues one Priest climbeth vp into their pulpits for orations , and possesseth the place alone , where he declameth , deliuereth his studied tale to the howre-glasse , which being runne out , he must make an end for troubling his auditory , and leaue no place or tyme of addition , assent or dissent to anie other , al the people hasting awaye . In his pulpit , after he hath read his text , he may diuide , teache , or hadle yt , leaue or take yt , corrupt , falsifie , wrest , or peruert yt at his pleasure . In that his priuileged tubbe he may deliuer what doctrines he liste , be they neuer so currupt , false , blasphemous . None of his auditore , whatsoeuer they be , hath power to cal them into question , cerrect , or refute the same presently and publickly , for that is by lawe forbidden : But the Church is driuen to their Lord Ordinarie to complaine , and except or vntil he redresse , they must hold & vse him stil as their Minister . In that priuileged tubbe he may inve●ghe , accuse , sclander , deuounce against anie truth or person that witnesseth against their kingedome , or against anie publicke sinne or enormitie of the tyme , without censure or controlement . Nay these men are praysed , incited , and commended for this , as the most faithful and godly ; which maketh both the sectes , as well Reformis●es as Po●●ificall yearne praise by this vayne , and fight with one accorde for their kingdome against Christes faithful seruants , whom they cal Brownistes , as against a common enimie ; yea more bitterly then they doe against anie other enimie , heretick , or wicked person . Onlie here in this tubbe if they can keepe their tongues from speaking against their Lords the Bishops & their procedings , or against anie publicke ●normitie in the Church or common wealth , they maie then ease their stomackes against anie meane person , or one Priest against an other , and rayle their fill . These perticular Congregations haue neither power to reproue their doctrines , or to censure their persons , be the one neuer so hereticall , the other neuer so obstinate ; and needes then must here be a cleane Church I trowe .

And now how sincerely and purely these learned Priestes & Diuines al the rable of them preach Gods Lawe and Christes Gospel , to set downe their seueral defaultes , ignorances , corruptions , and vnfaithfulnes , were infinite . Let the high open wilful breach of al Gods laws by al degrees , suffered , and vnreproued , declare and witnesse to their faces . Let their execrable Idolls , and idolatries , their abhominable worship & innumerable deuises , their taking the Lordes name in vayne , their common swearing in euerie matter , and tryall for euerie cause and triffle , yea without anie cause , their common & open blaspheming , and cursing , yea transfiging the holy and dreadfull name of God in their anger and mi●th ; Their impietie , prophannes , pride , vanitie , glottonie , excesse , idlenes , riote , playing , sporting , dauncing &c , on the Lordes day openly seene , suffered , vnpunished , shew how well they keep and teach the first Table of Gods lawe in the Church of England . And for the second , let the euil nourture & bringing vp of their youth , their dissolutenesse , irreuerence , head strong and incorrigible nature , yea their open disobedience & contempt of parents and superiours , the inordinate walking of all degrees helde within the compasse of no lawes , limites , callings , in the feare and obedience of no person Magistrate , Parent , Master ; Let the common quarles , frayes , foodes , tumults , blood-shed , murder , man-slaughter , the iarres , hatreds , contentions , debates , wrath , anger , enuying , cursing , reuiling , nicknaming &c , Let the common and open whoredoms , adulteries , fornications , chambering , wantonnes , daliance , lightnes , delicacie and softnes of apparle , diet , maners , to deck , prouoke , allure , their courting intertainement , open and secret lust ( otherwise caled loue ) most rife as in Sodome ; Let their open robberies , their secret theftes , pickings , pilferinges , their open oppression , violence , wronge , extortion , vsurie , their vsual deceipt and couen in all bargayning , buying , selling ; Let their common & customable open and secret lving , blaspheming , sclandering , accusing , reproching , defaming , bringing vp , carying , and receiuing euil reportes one of an other , their false swearing in testimonie , their swearing and foreswearing to deceiue euen in euerie triffle : And as for couering of wife , virgine , seruant , house , land , cattle , goodes , insatiable coueteousnes and greedines , heaping and hourding vp treasures , contynual purchasing and adding field vnto field , yea towne vnto towne , till they haue gotten whole countreyes into their possession , neuer satiate till their mouth be full of moulde . these are the best and only esteemed Christians of the Church of England ; where coueteousnes is no sinne . They that should speake against yt , pride , intemperance &c. should iudge the heart , and enter into Gods iudgment seate ; Let these capital sinnes and transgressions against the lawe of God , which are committed without shame or feare , either not punished or wrongfully punished ( murder only excepted , which how also yt is wincked at or perdoned I wil not stand vpon ) let these I say stand vp to the faces of these Priestes & Prophets , being thus commonly & openly committed in their Church , and witnesse how faithfully and sincerely they expounde & declare the lawes & iudgmentes of God , how carefully they watch ouer the soules of men , and gouerne the Church , that haue not against all or any one of these sinnes , any spirituall weapons , or ecclesiasticall censure in a readines ; So that if the Magistrates sworde ( which yet wanteth an eye to guide it ) did not represse some sinnes , there should be no humane peace , as there now is no christian order in their Church . And now if I should here stand to diriue the seueral and speciall kindes of sinnes ( which as riuers are diuided and flowe forth from all these generall heades , and as a deluge couer the face of this whole land ) yt were infinite ; but what then to diuide those riuers againe into their perticular droppes ? namely , such perticular persons as commit the same , yea such and so many perticular tymes as they commit the same , who then should nomber them ? All these sinners and sinnes are in this Church by these Leaches these Prophets healed with the plaister of peace , with the bloode and merites of CHRIST , though there be neither faith nor repentance , they are all good christians .

Likewise if I should here stand to relate and recite the falshode , deceipt , and hypocrisie of these Priestes ( let me here be vnderstoode euen of those best esteamed forewarde learned Preachers , commonly called Good men ) how conningly and craftily they teach the lawe , neuer touching or offending their auditorie ( at leaste the mightie or rich of them ) be their sinnes neuer so heynous and manifest ; especially if they will countenance , esteeme , feaste , and heare these Preachers , they are in them but infirmities , and imperfections , be they neuer so deiplie set & incurable . And againe how sharply they will inveigh against others which thincke not so wel of them , especially if they be not of power to doe them hur●e , nor of will to doe them good ; howe they wil speake against such sinnes of the second Table , as their rich auditorie are not at al , or least addict vnto , and beate them downe as with thunder from heauen , though they suffer as greate in them and their houses befor● their face vncontrolled . Yea what fine shiftes , excuses , and veales they will finde out to extenuate , excuse , or hide the sinnes of these greate rich persons , in whose houses all excesse , glo●onie , ryot , pride , idlenes , gaming , shal be but good hospitalitie answearable to their estates , honest recreation . And this veale of recreation must couer al their heathen sportes within doores and without , though it be all the day yea al their life longe , though they drawe neuer so many idle beholders , or idle assistantes to keepe them companie , to followe their dogges , hawkes &c as their only caling & profession . Yea go these Esawites , their wiues , and children neuer so disguisedly in their strange prodigious shapes , newe fangled a●tires , with their infinite deuises & curiosities , it is but according to their degree , sexe , age , calling , with infinite such like . Also , if I should stand to relate the sondrie shiftes of these Reformist Preachers , these sighers for reformation , these conscience botchers , these Preachers of the Gospell to winne and keepe credite with the world ; How zealous in some place , tyme , auditorie , where they may be wel backed they wil seeme against some triffles , as though they were of most precise and vnstayned conscience ; And againe how luke-warme , colde , and backward they wil be in the same poyntes at an other tyme , place , and auditorie , How strange to the poore that shal desire their iudgment of some poynctes , especially of these , But cheiflie if any haue espied more light then they would they should , and doe but make question of their ministrie , worship , Church &c , with what exquisite sleights they will seeke to drawe them backe , as running too farre & too fast before their guides , with what poysoned cauills to quench their zeale and spirite , to pleade for and defend their sinne and apostasie , These thinges to dicusse , or but to shew in perticular , with their due circumstances , would require a longe and lardge discourse , yea no booke were able to containe all their diuelish deuises and delusions , which euen fill that flying volume the Prophet speaketh of , Sathan hauing his fordge of all mischeife continually going amongst them . Al which their dealings euidently shew what kinde of ministers and preachers of the Gospel they are , Which drawe the people vnto , and with their preaching keepe them in , this defection & apostasie from the Gospell , which keep the people from , and will not leade them to the sinceare practize of the Gospell : but with their schole learning drawe a veale before CHRISTS face , that the people might not see to the end of his ministrie , neither discerne what CHRISTES will is for any action of the Church , or to examine by the rules of CHRISTES Testament any thing by publick au●thoritie established . Yea we see and haue shewed , how they drawe the people vnto , and themselues administer by an other Lei●ourgie then Christ● Testament , which prescribeth an other kinde of administration both to themselues and to the whole Church in all thinges , then CHRIST hath prescribed . We see & haue shewed , how they hold all the people vnder this more then Babilonish yoke of these antichristian Prelates , their Courtes &c , and stand themselues the marcked Ministers , sworne subiects , and bond seruantes of these their Lordes , haue fetched their ministrie , licence to preach , and their whole administration from them , how they are prescribed , stinted , limited , censured , silenced , deposed by them , how they haue submitted and betrayed themselues , Church , Gospell , Christ to these enemies : Also what merchandize they make of their prayers , Gospel , preaching , sacramentes , selling all and themselues to , for money : What trafique they make of their benefices , how they come by them and part from them , how they haue in all thinges gonne astray , forsaking the right waye , hauing followed the waye of Balaam of B●sor that loued the hire of vnrighteousnes , and are in all thinges so throughly corrupted , as they are the most bitter & pestilent enemies of the kingdome of CHRIST , and of the sinceare practize of the Gospel ; Deuising to themselues & their miserable followers daily new errors & bye pathes , as faste as the old ( wherin they haue walked ) are discouered , as any that will take the paynes to examine by the rules of the Scriptures their bookes of discipline and new formes of reformation , or rather those antient primatiue defections which they seeke againe to reuiue , shall perceiue . For mie part I am euen ir●ked to raue in this bottomlesse abysme of their iniquities , which the more they are looked into still offer more matter of reproofe , euen without end . Wherfore I euen with wearines here cease furder to speake of their corrupt administration , hoping that by this alreadie said , at the least vpon due examination therof , it may appeare to al men , that this their whole administration and preaching of the worde is altogether as corrupt , and in all poynctes rightly fitteth vnto their antich●istian office & entrance . It now remayneth that we hast to and ouer their maintenance .

THE maintenance of the ministri of the Church of ENGLAND is of these fower sortes 1. Either by lordly reuenues , with their royal rightes , ciuill iurisdiction , Courtes baron , tenancies &c , belonging thervnto . 2. Or by fees and pollages taysed & rauened in their spiritual Courtes , for iudging pleading , solliciting , writing , fetching vp , sommoning . 3. Or by gleabes and tithes . 4. Or ells by annual set stipendes .

The first forte of these we haue alreadie shewed to belong to Princes , to ciuile Lordes and persons , and to be vtterly vnlawful and forbidden to the ministrie of CHRIST . Mr. G●F . his liberall maintenance , or the ordinance of the Church , cannot mainteine them . Neither will that worde Philoxenos , which they so lardgly stretch & interpreat , carrie half this pompe .

To the second sort we affirme these Courtes , Officers , Iudges , Aduocates , Proctors , Registers , Purseuantes , Sommoners , together with all their functions , the orders of their Courtes , maner of iurisdiction , pleading &c , where all thinges are pleadable if not vendible for money , where al causes euen the most foule , finde their aduocates , colours , defence , delayes for mony &c , Al these spiritual Courtes , officers , iudgments , pleadings , customes , we finde diuelish & antichristian , and not to appertaine to the Church & kingdome of CHRIST , but to belong to the kingdome & throne of Antichrist , and of the Beaste . And therfore may conclude that they are the reuenues of sinne , not to belong to the ministrie of CHRIST .

The third kinde , these tithes , we finde merely ceremoniall , to haue bene ordayned for , Nomb. 18. and belonged vnto the Leuiticall ministerie vnder the lawe . We finde them an inheritance of the Leuites : An offering of the people : Therfore they cannot in this maner by lawe by tyed to the ministrie of CHRIST , be made an inheritance vnto them , an offring of the people vnto them . For if there be a chandge of the Priest-hoode , the● of necessitie must there be a chandge of the Lawe . Heb. 7. 12. No part of the ceremoniall lawe or of those shadowes can be ioyned vnto the Gospell & ministrie of CHRIST , Gal. 4. & 5. Chapter . they or any part of them cannot now be reuiued or retayned without the denial & losse of CHRIST . Collos. 2. 20 And how is the ceremoniall lawe abrogate whilest these tithes are in this maner allotted by lawe vnto the ministrie of the Gospell , as an inheritance to them , as an oblation of the people , euen as in former tyme vnto the Leuites ? The Princes commandement , or the Churches decree cannot alter the nature of these tithes , to make them either ciuile or lawfull . God was the aucthor of this law , he made it ecclesiastical : Man can neither chandge the propertie or the end therof , to make that ciuile that God hath make ecclesiastical . ● Chr●n. 31. Kinge EZECHIA commanded & reuiued this lawe ; it became not therbie ciuile . A godly Prince commandeth al the lawes of the first Table , all the ordinances of Christs Testament , shall they therbie be made ciuile , and no longer ecclesiastical or Gods lawes ? The decree of the Church also ( alleadged by Mr. G. ) sheweth it ecclesiastical , for the Church maketh no ciuile decrees , yt medleth not with th' execution of ciuile gouernement . Touching the power of the Church to make lawes & decrees , we haue in the first parte of this booke spoken . The Church is bounde to the lawes of God , and may make or receiue none other lawes then God hath made . Christ is the only Law-giuer & Kinge of his Church . Againe , this decree of the Church to ordaine that the ministerie of the Gospell should be maintayned by tithes , you see is directly contrarie to the wil , yea to the being of Christ , in receiuing that lawe & maintenance which Christ hath abolished together with the Leuitical ministrie . And aswel might they reuiue the Leuitical ministrie , or any other Iewish ceremonie with as great pretext and warrant , as this ; except the Church of ENGLAND haue some speciall warrant from or together with her Mother of ROME to reuiue and erect whatsoeuer CHRIST hath abolished , be yt neuer so contrarie vnto him ; yea and to abrogate whatsoeuer Christ hath instituted , be it neuer so necessarie . How bold the Church of England is in these thinges , in their tithes , offrings , purification , suspension , their holy cimiteries , and cells , the shape of their Church , with the porche , batlementes , i●les , Folding doores , lightes , ministerial vessels , ministerial garmentes , dayes , feastes &c , As on the other side to abrogate Christes Ministrie and the ordinances of his newe Testament , 1 Cor. 9. is aboue declared , and in this appeareth . For Christ hauing instituted an other mainetenance for his ministrie , Gal. 6. 6 namely the free contribution and beneuolence of his Sainctes in these Congregations whervnto they belonge and administer ; 1 Cor. 16. 1. 2. The Church of England iudging this al to base for her Ministrie , hath instituted or rather receiued of her mother of Rome Lordly yea Princely liuings , Courtly iudicial fees , Gleabes and tithes , sett & certaine stipendes . She wil not haue the lowest of her Ministrie to liue thus beggerly , to depend vpon the benevolence of the people , as our Sauiour himself , his Apostles , and Ministers did : ( which a certaine Doctor of hers in di●daine caled the almouse basket ) But she wil haue al her ministry sure of their maintenance before hand , they shal neither depend vpon God nor the Church ; But she giueth them their lines and portion in the lande amongst the people , and also giueth them a lawe ouer the people , wherbie they may exact their duetie , Mich. 3. if the fleese or fleshe be worth so much . The Priest here thrusteth his flesh-hooke into euerie poore bodies kettle , Ezek. 34. his ●ithe and sick●e into euerie field , 1 Sam. 2. prying and prowling in euerie place & corner , skratching and gathering vp his tithes euen to the chicken & egge , to the mynte and anise without regard to whom they belonge , Math. 23. 23 whether to the faithful or prophane , Leu. 22. 25. papist , atheist , witch , or heretick , to the poore or fatherlesse , Hab. 1. catching vp al with the angle , they cetch it in their net & gather it in their yarne and burne incense to their yarne , because this their portion is fa● and their meate plenteous , Math. 23. 14. deuowring widowes houses vnder colour of longe prayer . Now how this tithing prowling extortion , may be made the Christian Ministers maintenance , I would faine learne , Esa. 30. 24 Who as the Prophet saith should be fed with cleane prouander that is wynowed with the shoue● and with the fanne . Who themselues ought to be examples of pietie , equitie , meekenes , and not like greedy Wolues thus to make a praye of the sheepe . Ezeck. 13. 4 19. Likewise how this tithe gathering and contynual prowling maie be enioyned or made to accorde to a christian Ministers office , Or howe it is possible for the true Minister of CHRIST diligently to attend his studie and office together with this his tith gathering , let anie that knoweth the worke of the ministrie iudge . Yea rather let the holy Ghost iudge , that expresly forbiddeth the ministrie of the worde to be entangled with such busines of this life . 2 Tim. 2. 4 If it be here said these tithes may be gathered by an other , yet this sheweth they cannot be gathered by the Minister . And so stil this reason holdeth , that therfore they are no fit maintenance for the ministrie . The other reasons aboue recited , proue the vnlawfulnes of them .

To the set stipendes also and gleabes , I in like maner affirme them to be an other maintenance then that Christ hath instituted for his ministrie ; yea to take away that order , to the great detriment and manifold inconveniences of the Church , and therfore likewise vnlawfull . Holding this proposition firme , that where CHRIST hath instituted a maintenance for his Ministrie , the Church may not devise or receiue anie newe or other lawes for the maintenance of their ministrie , then CHRIST hath giuen . CHRIST then hath ordayned that they that dresse the vineyard & feed the flocke , should eate of the fruict of that vineyarde and of the milke of that flocke , to which they attend . This mainetenance in other places is set downe to be the free contribution and benevolence of the Sainctes from tyme to tyme , according to the present abilitie of the one , and necessities of the other . This the Lorde in wisedome hath thought most meete for his Church and ministerie vnto the wo●ldes end : As wherby to knit the heartes of them together in the band of loue , in al mutual dueties , to haue each other in minde , to care , prouide , and labour each for other as they ought . The Minister according to his du●ty to s●eke pasture for them , to thresh them out the corne out of the eares , yea to grind , prepare , and diuide yet to the nour●shment & comfort of them al. And they againe on their parte to labour , to administer of their earthly goods to the necessities & wantes of their Ministers & guides . Phil. 4. 10. & ● . Wherby y● one is encouraged in their studies , laboures , & diligence , thus reaping the fruictes of the peoples faith and loue , and are assured that they doe their dueties to the approbation and good liking of the flocke ; which when they shall faile and will not be drawen faithfully to doe , then is not the flocke any longer burdened with or bound vnto such a Minister . As one the other side , if the people fal from the faith and refuse to walke orderly in the faith , then are the Ministers no furder bounde , or to contynue to administer to such a people . But now whilest the Ministers mainetenance is made certaine by law , or bargaine , by stint , rate , or proportion imposed vpon the people , how much and when each one shal paye , how much the Minister shall haue yeerely ; It first depriueth God of the glorie due to him for his blessing vpon their labours and indeuours , in restrayning the free contribution and willing beneuolence of the people by this lawe or bargaine , making yt of necessity , stinting , and apportioning yt to this or that rate , which the Lorde hath left at the libertie , discretion , and will of each one , as God hath prospered , and according to that present ability God administreth . 〈◊〉 . 13. 16 with whiche contribution and sacrifice howe wel God is pleased , 2 Cor. 9. the Scripture euerie where witnesseth . Then it taketh awaie or extinguisheth all those mutuall and contynuall dueties , Phil. 4. beneuolence , loue , care , labour &c , betwixt the flocke and the ministerie . The flocke therbie not knowing or hauing meanes to doe their duetie vnto their ministerie . The Ministers therbie so hindered , incombred , and with-drawen , as they either slack , or neglect their dutyes to the flocke .

By this corrupt custome also sondrie intollerable inconueniences & grieuous mischieues doe ensue . This setting out land or certaine rates by way of lawe or bargaine in euerie parrish or Congregation to the Minister , doth hinder the Church from the choice & vse of such other Ministers as Christ in his Testament hath ordained to the gouernement and seruice of his Church , the parrish or Congregation neither indevouring to haue more , neither indeed suffred to haue more , or by this meanes able or willing to keep more . This setting out landes , tithes &c , to the Minister by way of lawe , doth alwaies presuppose of necessity a true established Church , and true Minister in those parrishes vnto the worldes end : those landes and tithes being appropriate & bounde thervnto , and hauing none other owners . Which confirmeth and establisheth those grosse popish errors of a personal and continuall succession of Ministers , and local contynuance of a visible Churche . Againe when this liuing is thus by lawe giuen to a Priest for terme of his life , be he neuer so vnable , vnworthie , or negligent , the parrish is so long bounde vnto him , and can by no meanes get rid of him . yea be he neuer so bad , his faultes & errors neuer so fowle , they cannot without or vntil their Lord Bishop wil , geat rid of him , they must mainetaine him and receiue his Ministry , whether they wil or no. Furder these annual liuinges by lawe and set stipendes by rate , presuppose alwaies one permanent and certaine estate both of the Parrishoners & Ministers , The one , euen euerie person euer to be able to pay so much , The other neuer to need more or lesse : Yea that alwaies to the worldes end all the Parsons & al the Parrishoners of that towne shal neuer need or be able to giue more or lesse , whether the Lorde send scarcity of plentie , dearth or cheapnes , sicknes or health , losse or aduantage , children or no chardge &c. Againe , such vnreasonable inequalitie is vsed in the distribution of these liuinges , the Parson of some one litle Hamblet where are not twentie houses hauing one hundreth or two hundreth-pounds by yeere to liue on , an other of a much greater towne not hauing twentie poundes , yea peradventure ten poundes by yeere for that chardge he hath to liue vpon : And this for euer without regarde of the needes or laboure of them , it being alike to them & their successors whosoeuer . To conclude , the tithes & set stipendes of these Parrish Priestes being of the goods of the prophane , most wicked , and vngodly , euen of al their parrish indifferently ; yet are more odious & vnmeet for anie christian Ministers , who are not to stande hierdes to such dogges & swine to administer to them the gospel and sacramentes for their goods and hire . It was not lawfull for the Priest vnder the lawe to receiue the offring of anie stranger from the faith , such might not enter into or offer in the Temple . Neither nowe vnder the Gospel maie the vnbelieuing haue anie fellowship with the Church , or communicate in or intermeddle with anie actions of the Church . But this contribution is an action of the Church , a communion & dutie of the Sainctes . How execrable them is this their sacriledge & coueteousnes , that thus make marchandize of the holie thinges of God , and let out themselues to hire euen to the prophane , for filthie lucre . The true Ministers of Christ may not be suspected , much lesse openly ●aynted of such peremptorie faultes as these , which disable him from all ministrie in the Churche , and are euerie-where set downe as vndoubted markes of a false Prophet . By al which then as by al other arguments of their antichristian office , entrance , and administration , we may still and yet more strongly concl●de them not to be the Ministers of Christ . Seing neither the office they execute , their entrance vnto their office , their administration in their office , nor yet their maintenance , can be ioyned vnto the Church , Ministrie , or Gospel of CHRIST .

THere yet remaine a few base stragling offices of their Church , vzt . Their Church-wardens , Questmen , Parish Clark . These are al lay men ( as they call them ) yet intermeddle they with ecclesiastical affaires . their offices perticularly I can neither describe , nor yet wel distinguish . The Church-wardens are ( as yt seemeth ) an other kinde of Deacons , They gather and keepe the Church stocke and treasurie , and also the penalties of such as come not to their diuine seruice , and also distribute the same vnto the poore , the reparations of the Church &c : they keep one of the keyes of the towne cheste . The Quest-men are liker vnto Elders , these ( I suppose ) they looke to the order and gouernement of the Church , as wel Priest as People . That the Priest vse his ministerial vestures , vessels , and trincketts , reade his seruice , homelies , iniunctions , orderlie . That the people do not bargaine , talke , or walcke in the Church and Church yarde during the tyme of diuine seruice ; They also must looke to the ale-houses that there be no tipling or playing , during the said tyme : and who be absent from their Parrish Church , and present such defaltes at Masse Commissaries Courte accordinglie . The Parrish Clarck he is the Priestes Accol●●th to help him to say his Mattens and Euen-songe , with his due versicles & Resp●nse , to help him at his Sacraments Marriages , Church-goings , Visitations , Dirges , Rogations at all assayes . He ringeth their bells to and after their seruice , their knells and soule-peales ; he keepeth the Church doore keye ; he sweepeth and ●rimmeth the Church ; he nurtureth the boyes and dogges that they be not to lowde at seruice tyme ; yea he may doe yet manie things more , if he haue the Bishops letter ; as in tyme of neede to christen children , and to reade diuine seruice in the absence of the Priest &c. To stand to shewe the forgerie , seuerall defaultes , or dissimilitude of these offices from the Deacon or Elders that God hath appoyneted , were tedious and needlesse , they hauing neither mention nor vse in Christes Testament and Church .

Thus now haue we summarily pervsed al this rable of the Ministery of the Church of England , and haue not founde anie one of them right , or almost in anie one poyncte according to the rules of Christes Testament , they are all strangers there , they belonge not to Christes bodie his Church , neither are they knit as members vnto that heade . But out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit they came when that fallen Starre Reuel . 9. & 13. and 16. & 17. and 18. Chap. Antichrist had the key thereof giuen him ; to his bodie his kingdome the false Church they haue alwaies belonged , alwaies serued ; to him in his seuerall shapes they haue alwaies bene knit , as the members to the heade ; from him and not from CHRIST we all with our bodily eyes see the Church of ENGLAND hath receiued them . We see they beare not CHRISTS but Antichrists image , marcke , life , power . What then should hinder this assertion , that they together with Antichrist their heade doe growe , liue , raigne , stand and fal as the branches with the tree . Luk. 11. 17. Should a revoulte , diuision , and schisme in a kingdome within yt self ? No , this but hasteneth the Lordes iudgmentes the sooner to make it desolate . Can this revoulte and schisme either transforme or reforme this ministerie ? Let their present estate iudge . 2 Thes. 2. 7. Should Antichristes changing his shape from his mysterie to his exaltation , from his exaltation to his Consumption , Reuel. 13. Or his Ministers transforming and masking themselues vnder shewes and visardes of righteousnes , 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15. make them euer the better , or hide and defend them from the light ? No , all thinges when they are reprooued of the light are manifest . Ephes. 5. 13. The light of the Gospel shal discouer and abolish Antichrist . 1 Cor. 3. 13. 14. 15. As he rose by degrees , so shall he by degrees vanish ; As he and his trayne rose out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit Reuel . 9. so shall they all goe into vtter darckenes , 2 Thes. 2. ● . euen thether againe . Reuel. 16. The Beast and the false Prophet shal be taken by him that rideth on the white horse and his holie armie , these both shal aliue be cast into that lake of fire burning in brimstone . The Lord himself hath spoken yt . Reuel . 19.

NOwe let vs see what arguments Mr. GIFFARD after more then two yeeres studie hath brought vs to approoue his ministrie by . He told vs erewhile that they were true Ministers of the Gospel , Pastors & Teachers , had a true calling and ordination ; Nowe come his proues . The ministerie of the Gospell which bringeth the worde of faith and reconciliation betwixt God and the world , is the true ministerie of CHRIST , for the Diuel and Antichrist ordaine no such ministerie . Nowe the ministerie of the Church of England doth bring no worde nor doctrine but the sacred Scriptures ; yt preacheth faith in God through CHRIST , and the doctrine of repentance , deliuering the holie Sacraments as seales to confirme the same . Let all the schismaticks of the worlde barck &c. I am lothe to take Mr. GIFF. in a Parologisme at the first where reasons are so geason , lest hereafter we haue no more , especially lest we haue more varyance about the forme then about the matter in this , yet when he shall haue reduced it to right forme , he shall then but haue begg●d that which we demanded , and still looke that he should prooue . vzt . That their ministrie is the true ministrie of the Gospell . This , because euerie true ministrie of the Gospell is in some office , vnto which office there must needes be a true and lawfull calling , therefore we desired him to prooue their ministrie in the office , entrance , &c , by the scriptures . Mr. GIFF. giuing vs his bare worde that they are Pastors & Teachers , making no proofe thereof , quite ouerskippeth their office and entrance , and prooueth them Ministers because they doe administer . As if a priuate person should reason thus . I haue knowledge of the lawe , I administer true iustice and iudgment , Therfore I am a true Iudge , a lawfull Magistrate . Doth he thinck that this reason wil excuse this vsurper either before God or his Prince ? If he then wil haue anie better speede , let him prooue his ministerie directly and plainely by the scriptures , first in the office he chalengeth , then in his caling vnto his office , as al the Apostles and true Ministers of CHRIST haue donne , and ought to doe . And then if he can iustifie his administration and be founde faithfull , he shall haue praise with God and man . Otherwise by this balcking and begging that he should , and hath bene so often vrged to prooue , he but manifesteth his weaknes and forgerie in those poynctes , and but to loseth as many of these preposterous argumentes , as he bringeth . Yet that he be not too far conceipted , or any other deceiued with this argument , against his next booke , we giue him to wiete , That the second part of his argument is a false and impudent assumption . The Church of ENGLAND bringeth and emposeth an other worde and other ordinances then the holie scriptures , as that deuised abhominable Leitourgie their idoll seruice-booke , the rule and foundation , yea the verie matter & substance of their publick worship , and administration , their popish superstitious ceremonies and trincketts , their vngodly and antichristian ordinances , ministrie , and gouernement . To all these abhominations they ioyne , or rather subiect and abuse the , Gospell . And therfore preach not faith in God nor CHRIST , neither the doctrines of repentance truly and sincerely : but denie God in their workes and CHRIST in his offices . They beare the yoke of Antichrist , drawe all the people vnto them , souder them euen the most wicked & impenitent in their sinne and iniquitie , with their prayers , preaching , and sacramentes . Not suffring any to forsake these seene sinnes and abhominations , or to come vnto CHRIST , but drawing and holding all the land vnder the wrath of God &c.

NExt he by the way maketh a learned apologie for the dumbe Pastors of the Church of England his bretheren , against whom if yt be obiected that their ministrie is not the ministrie of reconciliation , because they cannot preach the Gospel ; He here setteth downe a learned note by way of two rare distinctions . We must first he saith distinguish betwixt the ministrie & the Minister . The man may be of the Diuel , and yet his ministrie of God . Then we must distinguish betwixt the function yt self , and the execution of the same . As when the office is laide vpon one that cannot preach , the function it self is entire , the defect only in the execution therof ; Therfore the ministrie of the Church of England is the ministrie of the Gospell , though some doe not , and others cannot preach . Sure this is so subtily contriued , as men of meane iudgment & capacitie shall neuer be able to perceiue how it is or may be brought about . The first Distinction is graunted , so the sinne of the Minister be secrete , or not such as disableth him to the ministrie . But what of this , may any open , vnworthie , or insufficient person be a Minister ? Or is the ministrie of such a one good & acceptable ? Ther is no such consequence from hence to be gathered . To the second in like maner it followeth not , because we may distinguish and put difference betwixt the office yt self and the execution of the office , that therfore any office of the Church may be giuen to anie open vnsufficient , or vnworthie person ; Or if yt be , that the ministrie of such a one is good or acceptable : For the calling of the Church cannot enhable such open insufficient to the ministrie , whom God refuseth , or make acceptable that ministration , which God disaloweth . Nowe then these dumbe Pastors that cannot preach , are apparantly insufficient and incapeable of that office , therfore no calling of men can make them true and lawfull Ministers : And being no true or lawfull Ministers , their ministration is then vnlawfull , accursed , abhominable to God & men . These then being allowed Ministers , and their ministration publiquely by lawe approued , and receiued in the Church of England , we may conclude the publicke ministrie and ministration of the Church of England to be vnlawfull , accursed , and abhominable thus far foorth , notwithstanding Mr. Giffardes payre of distinctions . Otherwise , if he laboured to prooue the ministerie of the Gospell to be in yt self alwaies entire , holie , and blessed , notwithstanding the infirmities & faultes of men : this all men will graunte , and needed not his learned distinctions to prooue the same . But what is this to prooue the ministrie of these dumbe Pastors , Or the other ministrie of the Church of England to be that ministerie of the Gospell : which we for all the reasons aboue alleadged confidently denie .

HIs second reason . Such as haue the caling & ordination of the Church , haue the ministrie of CHRIST , For it is giuen to the Church to cal & ordaine Ministers . In the next section his Minor followeth . In England the Ministers haue their caling & ordination by the Church of GOD , Therfore &c. To the Maior he addeth a clause , that yt may be a true caling notwithstanding some faultes of ignorance or otherwise ; So he vnderstand this otherwise to be of negligence , and not of anie wilful & obstinate transgressions : Or not any of those peremptorie faultes excepted by the holy Ghost , which disable the elect & disanul the election , then we thus far assent . But when we reason of the caling of the ministri of England , we speake not of a true caling , though vnperfect with some faultes of ignorance or negligence , but of a false counterfeit & antichr●stian caling , which we haue proued & affirme theirs to be . The caling of the Church ought alwaies to be yt caling of Christ prescribed in his Testament , which theirs is not . To his Minor now , first we denie the Churche of England to be the true established Churche of Christ . He prooueth it thus That people which hath forsaken heresies and false worship , and imbraced the doctrine of the Gospell hath in it the true Church which hath the power . Wee obserue much subtiltie and feare in this position . For whereas he ought to haue affirmed Are the true Church , and haue the power , he fearefullie & subtilly saith hath in it the true Church , which hath the power , not daring to iustifie or ioyne issue of their outward estate , but leauing himself a starting hole to flee to such secret ones as God may call and haue amongst them . We doubt not but God hath in Turckye or Persia , yea in the Church of ROME manie deare elect ; but should we therfore say that Turcky , Persia , Rome , are the true Church ? We affirme also & will approue against al the false Prophets of the world , that in this land the Lord hath such a people that haue thus forsaken heresies & false worship , embraced the Gospell , and haue this power of CHRIST . But we denie this their Church to consist of this people , to haue forsaken heresies & false worship , to haue truly embraced the Gospel , or to haue this power of CHRIST , to elect , ordaine , excommunicate , or to redresse anie enormitie : but are dryuen to these antichristian Bishopps for al these . Who receiue not power of the Church , but vsurpe and exercise absolute power ouer the Church , yea the whole power of the Church , as hath bene shewed . Which is vnlawfull either for the Church to giue , or for any true christian to receiue or execute . Neither can th' aucthoritie of anie mortall men or Parlament make that lawfull , which God in his worde condemneth and forbiddeth . And so euen by this his owne allegation , all this ministrie made by & standing vnder this vsurped inordinate antichristian power of the Bishopps , are also vnlawfull . To which if we add the vnlawfulnes of the office these Ministers are called vnto and execute , the vnlawfulnes of their calling in the whole maner therof vnto , by , and in no flocke certaine , the vnlawfulnes of the ordayners , as also of the ordayned , their open ambition , greedines , and insufficientcy , their false maner of probation and ordination , with all the vngodly and execrable ceremonies , vowes , othes , subscriptions vsed to the same , none can mistake this caling and ordination of the Ministers of ENGLAND , for that true & holie election and ordination of the Church of CHRIST : without which true caling there can be no true Minister . No true Church may vse or can iustifie anie such false caling as theirs . And so still we must leaue Mr. GIF . to proue the office & caling of his ministrie .

THis Clarke procedeth to an other reason . That ministrie is of God , which is to bring men to the faith , and to build vp the bodie of CHRIST . The ministrie of England is to none other end . Therfore &c. The Minor he proueth Because the whole drift , scope , and burden laide vpon them , is , to feede with wholesome doctrine & to guide in the waies of godlines the sheepe of CHRIST walking before them in godlie conuersation . Mr. G. said erewhile that the Ministers of England were no intruders : But sure vt seemeth they are verie nimble leapers which skippe ouer the hatch into the house , & wil not stay vntil the Master of the house cal , vntil the Porter of the house open , but without any lawfull calling or entrance wil needes thrust themselues Ministers vpon the Lord and his Church whether he and they wil or no. Yea Mr. Giff. wil proue himself & these his presumptuous companions true Ministers without this caling or entrance , by the endes of their administration , although the Lorde of the house neuer caled them to be builders , or committed vnto them the worcke and ministrie of his house . The deceiptfulnes and disorder of these kinde of argume●ts wee haue aboue shewed , and with the same general answeare might dismisse this . Saue that by the way wee must giue him to vnderstand , That his Assumption is a shamelesse presumption . They build not vpon but destroye the house of God , the bodie of Christ . This their worcke , the present estate of their Church witnesseth to their face , and sheweth what maner of worckmen they are : where we finde not one pinne , nayle , or hooke in due order and proportion according to the true paterne . They feed not the Lordes sheepe but the Lordes goates , and that not with wholesome foode , with sincere milke , that they might growe and be encreased therby , as the generall sinne , prophannes , and ignorance of al estates both Priestes and people declare . Neither guide they in the way of godlines , but in the wayes of destruction and calamitie . They haue al declined & bene made together vnprofitable . And the way of peace they haue not knowen . And as for the conuersation of these Priestes , it may wel be an example to the flock in al idolatry , superstition , impiety , vnfaithfulnes , apostasie , halting and dissembling with God and man ; worldlines , coueteousnes , deceipt , and what not . So that the saying of the Prophet is come about , That there are like people like Priest . Al this Mr. G. in his festered conscience knewe before , and that his shamelesse assumption would not passe with his adversarie with whom he had to doe , and therfore he leaueth the proof of this assumption , as also of his office and entrance , and yet againe assayeth by a newe argument of the effectes , together with that which is properly adioyned to the Ministrie of CHRIST , to proue his Ministerie .

THat ministerie with the'xecution wherof there is ioyned the effectual grace , power , blessing and operation of the holy Ghost to the true conuertion of mens soules , is not a ministerie of the Diuel nor of Ant●christ , nor cometh not in the life and power of the Beaste , but is indeed the true Ministerie of CHRIST . But such grace , power , blessing , operation is founde in the Ministerie of England . Therfore . First here stil must be obserued a begging and assuming of a true Ministrie , which as yet is not proued : Neither doth this reason proue a Ministrie , so much as shew the infallible effectes of true doctrine & true preaching , whether it be by Ministers , or by other faithful , which haue the gift of prophecie , knowledge , interpretation vtterance &c. For , far from the truth is it to thincke , that only Ministers beget and winne to the faith ( as some most shamelsse Bishops , and sencelesse Priestes of this age haue published and mainetaine . ) Then might they aswel with the Papistes permit the worde of God only vnto Priestes : yea suffer none but Priestes to speake of the worde or holie doctrines , Act. 20. 32 if this vse and end of the worde were taken away , if the blessing and power of God should not goe with his holy word and truth in the mouth of all his seruants , Iam. 1. 21 both to cal vnto the faith , an to super-edifie in the faith : Ells should al dueties in families , all mutual exhortations , Rom 11. 16 admonitions , Heb. ●0 . 24. 25. conferences cease . 1 Thes. 5. But hauing the commandement of God to al these , 1 Cor. 14. the euidence and testimonie of the blessed and comfortable effects following the faithful testimonies of al Christes Disciples in all ages , Acts. 8. 4. & 11. 19. &c. and contynual experience hereof amongst out selues dayly , we dare affirme that others besides Ministers may conuert soules and begeate faith . So then this argument of the effectes proueth not so much a true ministry , as it doth proue true doctrine . For no false doctrine can beget true faith , though manie which be no Ministers may beget true faith . Mr. Giff. them reasoneth verie corruptly & deceiptfully in attributing the conuertion of soules as proper & peculiar to the ministrie , which is not so , and in bringing these effectes to proue a true ministrie , which only are to proue true doctrine . And nowe to Mr. Gif . his assumption . Wee denie that any false ministrie hath promise of blessinge , or is sent of God for the conuertion of soules , but on the contrarie we finde it accursed , and sent of God for the seducing of the reprobate . The ministrie then of the Church of England being proued false in Office , Entrance , and Administration , can haue no such promise or blessing of God as Mr. Giff. assumeth . If it be demaunded then whether al vnder this ministrie be damned . I say it is a newe question , and kept secret to the Lorde , who onlie knoweth who be his , when & how to call them . It becometh not vs to giue anie such finall iudgment of matters not knowen vnto vs : Yet this wee may be warrant of the whole scripture saie , That the waies of the false Churche and ministrie are the waies of death , and haue no promise of saluation . But for the persons wee iudge charitablie , euen so longe and so far as wee may , measuring them by our selues , as wee sometymes were , hoping and not doubting , but God hath manie thousandes deare elect there , yea euen in the Popish Churches , whom he in his due tyme by his appointed meanes wil cal . If Mr. Giff. here insist & say that many of those thousandes are couerted by their ministrie , Therfore their ministrie is not in the power of ANTICHRIST , or of the Diuel , but of God , hauing that sure seale that worcke of the holie Ghost . We haue aboue answered that this rather approueth the doctrine then the ministrie , and is to be attributed to the worde of God , rather then to the person of man . Furder , that the false ministrie hath no promise of blessing . Yet doe wee not herebie restraine the infinite power of God from sauinge or calinge his elect euen by the doctrine of the false Churche : which though it be so throughly leauened , corrupted , peruerted , abused , yet can the Lorde bring the truth of his lawe and gospel which is there read , and after their maner preached in such sorte , ●o the eares & cons●iences of his chosen , as it shal both shew them their degenerate estate , ●ow guiltie they are of the breache of Gods lawe , howe lyable to his wrath , and also shew them the true meanes of their restoring , redemption , reconciliation , saluation . Yet this doth neither iustifie the false Minister of his ministration , no more then when a young Boye , dumbe Minister , or vnbelieuing prophane person reading the holie scriptures , or some other booke of true doctrine , some of the hearers ( God so opening their understanding ) should therby be brought to the ackowledging and faith of Christ , the feare & loue of God &c. This Boy , reading Priest , prophane person , by reading is proued a true Minister , a true preacher , a true christian ; Or these that are thus wonne , comforted &c , to seeke no other Minister or meanes of their saluation then thys reading by these persons . Let the doctrine then in that poyncte wherby men are thus begotten to these beginninges of faith , or to anie encrease therof , be alwaies true and sounde so far foorth , the maner & tyme of apprehending , be the worke and power of God , the meanes & instrumentes of conuaying or bringing , variable at the wil & appoynctment of God . Yet are we only to s●eke , vse , and rest in those meanes which the Lord hath ordayned for our instruction and leading foorth in the wil and wayes of God , which meanes only haue warrant & promise of blessing vnto vs , howsoeuer the Lord by his infinite power and worcking can and no doubt doth saue some in Turckey amongst the heathen , in the false Church amongst the false worshippers , by what meanes yt pleaseth him : yet may not we herevpon either resorte vnto or remaine in these forbidden places in hope of these effectes , because God ( if such be his will ) can saue vs here , or if it be not his will to saue vs then no true Church of ministry can auaile vs . This were most highly and dangerously to tempt God , a reprobate kinde of reasoning . God his wil vnto vs is , that we alwaies obey and rest in his reueiled wil , and not to presume vpon his infinite will and power , which he keepeth secret vnto himself . This caused the holy Martyres and faithfull at all tymes , and vs the Lordes most vnworthy witnesses at this tyme , after that Gods spirit had wrought effectuallie in their and our hearts , and opened our eyes to see part of his holy truth , as also some of the heinouse abhominations committed , defended , and wilfullie persisted in in the false Church and ministrie , constantlie euen to death & bandes to witnesse against the same , and to forsake the false Church notwithstanding al the pretextes , g●oses , and arguments the falfe Prophet shal adorne the Harlot with , or make for his Ministry . So deare is the loue of God & of his holy truth vnto vs , as we can suffer our selues neither by men or Angels be drawen into anie seene or willing transgression of his holy word . And as for these arguments of Mr. Giffard what other are they then the Papistes haue brought against the first faithfull witnesses Iohn Husse , Ierome of P●●ge , Luther , Caluine , Frith , ●indal &c , Or may bring at this daye against al the Churches that are departed from them . Vnto the execution of our Ministery is ioyned the effectual grace , power , blessing , and operation of the holy Ghoste to the true convertion of some mens soules , Therfore our Ministrie is not of the diuil or Antichrist , but indeed the true ministry of Christ . Ells al that haue liued thus manie hundred yeeres before you in our Church , and knew not these newe learninges you hold , are damned : Ells all that haue died in our Church are damned : yea ells you must hold al the Kinges and Princes , Nobles , Pieres , and people in our Church reprobates &c. But let vs come to your selues ye that are the aucthors of this Schisme . Where had you your faith , your first knowledge of God and of Christ , if not in this Church by our ministrie ? we haue the true scriptures amongst vs , we teache truly concerning the Godhead and the thee persons therof , God the Father , God the Sonne , and God the Holy Ghost , though distinct in persons , yet one God &c : We preach Christ in his two natures verie God and verie man . That he came into the world for the saluation of al mankinde . That God so loued the world that he gaue his only begotten Sonne , that whosoeuer belieueth in him should not perish , but haue life euerlasting . Wee preach Christ crucified for our sinnes , dead , buried , risen againe , ascended , glorified . We preach him in his three offices to be our King , Priest , and Prophet : Wee preach al the fundamental articles of our christian faith ; and as wee preach , so you belieue al these . Yea and we appeale to your consciences whether you haue founde ioy and comfort in your owne soules at the preaching of these doctrines . Againe , we preach the lawes of God in the tables , and beate downe such sinnes as wee see to be contrarie to the same , in such sort as manie are drawen to repentance , to hatred , sorrowe , and remorce for sinne : And these againe wee raise vp with comfort and hope of forgiuenes , and with the promises of eternal life . These things if ye schismaticks feele not , yet vnto many others which by our preaching are converted vnto the Lorde indeed , which vnto feare & trembling doe feele the power & sweetnes of the liuely worde , we may say as the Apostle vnto the Corinthians in like case . If I be not an Apostle vnto others yet ame I one vnto you , ye are the seale of mine Apostleship in the Lord . And as for you Lutherans , if you contynue not , that is not our default , if you fal from grace . It is enough for vs that you haue felt this maiestie of the worde , and it sufficeth to proue our ministrie that the power of the holy Ghost goeth with y● , when men haue bene so moued , though they contynue not , seeing the reprobate may feele this power and taste this sweetnes for a tyme . Now then our ministry being thus proued by the law and the Gospel , and by the testimony of the holy Ghost in these powerful effectes , How can you thus separate from the meanes of your saluation , from that ministry which hath begotten in you , or at least doth begeat in others this knowledge , faith , comfort , & c ? Our ministrie them being thus proued , our Church must needes followe , for a true ministrie doth not belong , neither is at anie time founde in a false Church . Yea you must graunt that whilest we hold the true foundation , wee are the true Church , though we erre in matters of circumstance & other doctrines , as you thincke : yet that taketh not away our beeing of a Church . The Churches at Corinth , Gallatia , Asia abounded with many faults , errors , corruptions , as we reade , yet are saluted by the Apostles , recorded by the holy Ghost as true Churches . Now that we hold the foundation , our confession of the articles of our christian faith , the ten commandementes , the Lordes prayer , &c. ( which you also confesse and vse ) shewe . Therfore whilest you depart from vs , you depart from the true Church . Herevpon they might also vse those rethoricall flowers of Mr. GIFFARD his diuinitie to rayle , reproach , and invaye . That they are ranck Donatistes , Lutherans , ignorant , furious , franctick , schismatickes , yea damnable heretickes , forsaking the ministerie and truth of God , condemning the Church of God , bringing the holie ministerie thereof into contempt , and so bring in flat atheisme , barbarisme , rebellion against Magistrates &c. Howe thincketh Mr. Giff. would not these argumentes fit the , Papistes aswell against them , as they do him against vs ? Is he not driuen to hard shift , when he must borrowe weapons of them to defend himself , his Church , ministrie , worship , gouernment ? They must needes stand fast when they are built vppon their groundes . Let him then first answeare the Papistes to these reasons , before he bring them against vs , and then if he be not satisfied he shall heare what we can say to them . For sure if they be not of force to bring them home againe to their Mother of ROME , they wil neuer perswade vs to goe backe to them . In the meane time Mr. Gif . we signifie vnto you concerning this reason which you vrge and dilate , That it is a ground of Anabaptistrie to iustifie open transgression by inwarde motions . It is a grounde of Atheisme to pleade for or tollerate sinne , because of such good effectes as you imagine to procede therof .

Mr. GIFFARD his next argument is drawen from our confession . We confesse that they were blessed Martyres that suffred in Q. MARIES daies . But thei were converted by the same ministe●ie which we haue now . They had the same motions at the preaching of Latimer , Hoper , Taylor , Bradford , which our people haue no● at our preaching and Sacraments touching saith , repentance , and resolution to die for the testimonie of the Lorde . Therfore let the Brownistes and al other wicked schismaticks barck that we h●●e no ministrie &c. This reason hangeth vpon the same thread with this other last before , and is built vpon the same popish and Anabaptistical grounds . Touching the persons of these Martyres , we haue alreadie in our first replie vnto your answeare , set downe our christian opinion and iudgment . Yet can this argument of their persons no more iustifie this antichristian ministrie of Lord Bishops , parrish Parsons , merceanarie vagrant Preachers , then it hath pleasured the Pope heretofore , who had as manie godlie predecessors and Martyres to boast of as they . The forgerie of their whole administration , preaching , worship , sacramentes , is furder discovered , then these winde-shaken fig-leaues can hide the shame therof . The truth is , howsoeuer the Lord doth reserue the canonical Scriptures , and some other doctrines of the Godheade , the suffring , resurrection , and glorie of Christ , of the iudgment and life to come &c , in the false Church and ministerie , and by his secret power and wil can vse the said scriptures and doctrines to the saluation of some , yet these effectes are not to be ascribed to the false ministerie or their corrupt ministration , adulterate Sacraments &c , which haue no promise of blessing : 2 Thes. 2. 9. 10. 11. 12. And therfore those inward motions and comfortes receaued by them , are delutions , without grounde or warrant of Gods worde , Esai . 66. 3. 4. the actions as they doe them not being acceptable , but accu●sed in Go●s sight . The faith and repentance wrought by their 〈◊〉 appeareth in the general estate and life of their people , Ie●● ▪ 6. 19. 20. 〈◊〉 . yea of their whose Church . As to that christian zeale , courage ; and constancie to dye for the testimonie of the truth ( which he popish lie caleth Resolution ) and saith is wrought by their ministrie , we shal beginne to belieue yt , when they beginne to walcke in the truth , and to shake off that antichristian yoke they stand vnder ; but whilest in this maner they betray their whole ministrie and gospel , the whole power and libertie of the Church into the handes of these antichristian Bishops , standing their sworne and marcked souldiours , administring & preaching after their prescription and limitation , being bownd by oath not to preach against anie thing by publick aucthoritie established , how odious or enormous soeuer , Pet. 2. but for feare & filthie lucre stand ministers of al these abhominations , we are warned by the holie Ghost not to be deceiued with their swelling wordes of vanitie , promising vs libertie , whilest they themselues stand the bond seruants of corruption . And for the aucthor of these blaspheamous bookes Mr. Giffard , who is apostatate & fallen away euen from that litle faith and light which he sometimes seemed to haue , building now againe the thinges he sometimes destroyed retourned with the dogge to his owne vomite , & as the washed sowe to the wallowing in the myre , yea most cursedlie blaspheaming the truth of God and the poore witnesses therof , as a most bitter & professed enimie fighting in most hostile maner against the kingdome of Christ , for & vnder the kingdome of Antichrist , we shal belieue that he wil suffer for the Gospel of Christ when Q. MARIE retourneth againe to persecute : In the meane while we say with the holie Ghoste : It had bene better for this man neuer to haue knowen the truth , then after he had acknowledged yt to tourne from the holie commandment giuen vnto him .

YEt remayneth an other odd popish reason of Mr. G. his old store , brought by him in his first answeare vnto certaine articles of ours , as the onlie proof he then could find for his ministrie , vzt : The affirmation and consent of other Pastors and Churches , sending such as doubted to enquire of these strangers their iudgment of the Church and ministrie of England , and in the meane tyme councelling them to suspend their iudgment . This reason and councel because we reiected as insufficient , vnsounde , and popish , requiring rather some proof by Gods worde of themselues ( wherin we wholly rested , and not in the opinions of men ) then thus to be sent in this case from the learned ministrie of England vnto strangers to knowe what they thincke of their ministerie , as appeareth in our replie , to which we refer the reader for our answeare to this argument . Herevpon Mr. G. in his first publick treatise against the Donatists of ENGLAND reneweth this old argument or quarrel rather by con●riuing this odious question . Whither the people in these controuercies ought to be sent vnto such hereticks and Schismatickes as we are , or vnto the learned Pastors of other Ch●rches . This question after he had thus charitablie framed , he as grauelie and reuerentlie discusseth with these and such like holie christian passages . See how sottishly ye cauil . Blind presumptuous heretical Sch●sm●tickes . Yours is the course of al arrogant proude heretickes and Schismatickes which couet to haue the people depend vppon them , that they might haue fame . Or vnto vnlearned rashe Brownistes , intruding themselues without caling and running before they be sent . As the harl●●● and whoores of the stewes that boast and glorie of their chasti●ie . Who is more ●ierce and outragious , more vncharitable in condemning then ye Brownistes ? And yet ye bragg of such patience and charitie as can not be ouercome . The Diuel counterfai●ing Christes voice in heretical Schismaticks should not be able to allure and cal away the sheepe from their shepheardes &c. part of 78. and of the. 79. page of his first booke ? How thinck you , hath not this Clarcke bene wel nourtured and brought vp , that can thus learnedlie deuise and handle a question and refute his aduersaries in lesse then one page of his booke ? He that findeth not these those mightie weapons through God to cast downe holdes and reasonings , and to the captiuating al vnderstanding into th' obedience of Christ ; He that findeth not this that quiet and gentle spirit , that heauenlie peaceable wisedome from aboue , that lenitie and meeknes wherwith the Minister of Christ instructeth the contrarie minded , might euen herebie doubte of Mr. G. his ministrie . And see after this storme is a litle blowen ouer , and he hath somewhat discharged and eased his ful stomacke , in the end he alloweth of our course and councel for the tryal and proofe of their ministrie by the worde of God only , and not by the opinions of anie men who●soeuer ; Saying that it is the same in effect ( if we could see ) that himself gaue before . Peraduenture Mr. G. meaneth , if we could see into his minde , for in his writing there was no such matter . But wel , seeing we are agreed of this course and tryal of their ministrie by the scriptures , whie are we thus reuiled and reproched for consenting vnto , demaunding , and expecting this tryal ? yea whie is not this christian peaceable course taken , this tryal and proofe made ? whie hath not Mr. G. at the least approued his ministrie in the Office , Entrance , and administration by the euident scriptures ? And therby both haue approued themselues and conuinced vs , before he had pronounced this balsphemouse sentence against vs , who acknowledg with reuerence euerie worde of God , thervnto submitting our whole faith & life to be tried , corrected , directed in al things , which reproachful sentence Michael himself that head of Angels and men , du●st not giue euen against the Diuel in controuercie betwixt them . These controuercies betwixt them and vs being of no lesse momente then Moses bodie , and none of vs our owne Iudges in this case , but al standing to the iudgment of God by his worde , ought to haue bene more soberlie and reuerentlie handled . Wherein what Mr. G. hath failed wee leaue him to his accomptes before that dreadfull Iudge , where the consent and applausion of the Bishops and cleargie of England shall not excuse him for al or anie of these despiteful reproches and fowle sclanders that he hath brought vp and published in these his blasphemouse bookes , vpon the Lords faithful seruantes and poore witnesses in bandes against this antichristian ministrie and their vngodly proceedings . Which if here with all the deipe learning of Sathan cannot be hid or defended , how should they stand before his face that hath his eyes like a flambe of fire , Reuel 2. that searcheth the hartes & reynes , and giueth euerie man according to his worckes . And for vs , seing wee finde this their whole ministrie by examining them by and comparing them vnto the rules of Christes Testament , to be false , forged , and antichristian in their office , entrance , administration , and maintenance , to haue no place or mention in Christes Church ; Seing we before our eyes see them to haue serued in and belonged vnto Antichristes ▪ euen the Popes kingdome and throne , the false Church , with all the abhominable idolatries therin , wee dare boldlie affirme and conclude , That they keeping these offices cannot nowe belong vnto or serue in Christes kingdom , his Church , neither be kint vnto Christ as their heade . But as the Holie Ghost wittnesseth of them , they haue a Kinge ouer them , the angel of the bottomelesse pit , whose name in hebrewe Abaddon , and in Greek Apollyon , in all languages and places , Reuel. 9. 11 the Destroyer . And as we finde them , so according to the commaundement of God , we leaue and auoide them : turning our eye and speach now a litle to the fourth principal cause of our dislike of , and separation from the Church of England .

THE FOVRTH PRINCIPAL CAVSE OF OVR SEPERATION FROM THE Church of England , is . 4 FOR that their Churches are ruled by , and remaine in subiection vnto an Antichristian & vngodly gouernment , cleane contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour Christ .

FRom this proposition is this argument manifestlie and directlie drawen . No true established ▪ Church of Christe may willingly receiue , or wittinglie stand subiect vnder anie other ecclesiasticall gouernment them Christ hath prescribed and instituted . But the Church of England willinglie receiueth and wittinglie standeth subiect vnder a strange ecclesiasticall gouernment , other then that Christ hath prescribed and instituted . Therfore the Church of England is not the true established Church of CHRIST .

The chardge & argument being so euidient & ineuitable as Mr. G. in his first answeare ( whilest he stoode of the Reformistes side a sutor for Reformation ) durst neither for shame denie , not yet for feare affirme , he sought by mouing , and after his maner prouing , a newe question , to obscure and tourne away , at the least ( vntil he sawe furder howe the tymes would goe ) to shift off the present proposition , that pressed so sore , with such ambiguous doubtful delphicke words & speaches , as might be interpreted in what sense himself list , And he salfly tourne to that side that were likest to preuaile & carrie the creadit in the world . First by way of Supposition and Admission , in these wordes . If it were admitted that there is some yoke of antichristian gouernement , Vnder which the poore Church may groane , is yt therfore no longer the spouse of CHRIST ? Mr. Giff ▪ hauing thus entrenched himself , might issue out of this sko●ce and turne to which side he would . As wel might he from hence haue stoode of the Reformistes faction , by saying that he neuer sought to plead for , or to defend this gouernement of these Prelates ( but euen in these wordes he doth affirme and pronounce yt to be a yoke of antichristian gouernement , a bondage , an oppression of the Church &c. ) As now being reuoulted to the Pontifical side , he saith , he did but propounde it by way of question , supposition , admission . For the present gouernment , he holdeth yt the true & very gouernment of Christ in substance & matter , howsoeuer yt haue not the same forme , and be not executed in that maner which Christ hath prescribed ; Of which forme there is great question , whether it be permanent or variable ; Neither wil he meddle with the discussing therof , because he wil displease neither side . But this he held , and holdeth , That the true Church may be oppressed and remaine vnder some yoke of antichristian gouernment . That it is the lot of the Church to be oppressed with outward bondage , to be made to keep the vineyarde which is not her owne , to be beaten of the watch men &c. Mr. Gif . was answered vnto these , That there is great difference betwixt ciuile bondage , and ecclesiastical bondage : Betwixt outward oppression or persecution , and an antichristian yoke or gouernment . That the Church had beene or might be in ciuile bondage vnto , outwardly oppressed and persecuted by either ciuile magistrates , as Pharao , Nebuchadnezzar &c , Or by false ecclesiastical Ministers , proud antichristian vsurpers , as P●shur , Caiaphas , Annanias &c. But yet that the Church of God may neuer by the one or the other sorte be brought into bondage of , and wittingly remaine in subiection vnto anie yoke of antichristian gouernement , not euen to the least lawe , tradition , or deuise of man , which they see to be contrary to the word of God . For this was shewed to be a losse of christian libertie , if they should by the will or power of anie mortal man or men whosoeuer , Gal. 4. 9. 10. &c. be againe entangled in any yoke of bondage , or brought in subiection of anie lawe , deuise , or tradition of man , seeme yt neuer so holie or expedient , Gal. 5. 1. &c be yt Circumcision ▪ Daies , Feastes , Fastes , Meates &c , Col. 2. To be so contrarie to the Gospel , as the truth therof should not contynue amongst them , if they should giue place to anie man in the least of these thinges by way of subiection for the space of an howre Gal. 2. 4. 5. To add vnto the worde of God , to superordeyne vnto the Testament of Christ , yea to abrogate the Testament of Christ . Gal. 3. 15. To worship God in vayne Mat. 15. 9. Not to hold the head , but to be rashlie puffed vp in the sense of their owne fleshe Coll. 2. 18. 19. It was shewed that Christ is the onlie lawe-giuer , Kinge , Husband , and Lord of & in his Church . That one kingdome cannot receiue two kinges , One marriage bed two husbands , One house two Lordes so contrarie as Christ and Antichrist , at on and the same instant , And that one neck cannot be said to beare two yokes , and drawe in them both at one instant : Neither one person be a faithfull subiect , wife , seruant to two so diuers and contrarie Kinges , Husbands , Lords , 2 Cor. 6. 15 as CHRIST and Antichrist are . CHRIST diuideth not , neither hath part , Reu. 11. & . 12. Chap. fellowship , or communion with Antichrist . There is contynual warre betwixt their kingdomes and subiectes , betwixt the false and true Church , Gal. 4. 20 the false and true seede , they that are borne after the fleshe , Io● . 15. 18. &c. and 16. 2. 3. persecuting them that are borne after the spirit . It was shewed that wee are his seruantes and subiects to whom wee obeye . That this yoke and bondage of Antichrist , breaketh the wedlocke , breaketh the Couenant with CHRIST ; Math. 6. 24 CHRISTES loue and Couenant beeing no longer bounde or plight to vs , Rom. 6. 16 then wee keepe faith to him . which faith is forfeited , and warre ended , by yeilding and standing in bondage to Antichrist , by taking and bearing his yoke . which bondage and yoke was shewed and proued to be the badge of Antichrist , Reu. 13. 15 16. 17 and 17. 15 the marcke of the Beaste , which al the miserable multitudes vpon which the Harlot the false Church sitteth , are compelled to receiue in their foreheades or in their handes , Gal. 4. 26 & . 5. 1. 2 wherbie the children of mounte Sina are knowen from the children of Ierusalem that is aboue and is free with al her children : Iohn . 8. 32. &c. For al which children our Sauiour Christ hath purchased a ful and perfect libertie at a deare and pretious price , hauing giuen vnto al his children the arrhabon of his spirit , Ro. 8. 14. 15 not the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption as sonnes . 2 Cor. 3. 17 And where this spirit is , there is libertie . For if wee be sonnes , then are wee free and no bond seruantes . For the bond seruant abideth not in the house for euer , Iohn . 8. 35 but the sonne abideth for euer . Coll. 1. 12. 13 It was also shewed him to be a blasphemous error to say That to beare Antichristes yoke and gouernement , is the lot of CHRISTES Church . To conclude , it was made plaine vnto him how fowllie he misvnderstoode , abused , falsified , and peruerted those places of the Songe by him alleadged to proue that blasphemous error . So that if Mr. G. would either haue bene aduertised or advised , to make and put difference betwixt ciuile bondage and subiection , and an antichristian bondage and yoke , betwixt bodilie oppression and spiritual subiection , Or would dulie haue pondered our opinions , reasons , and proues , Or would haue bene admonished of his former dotages and errors , he could not againe in these poyntes thus boldlie haue resisted the euident truth , turned away the direct scriptures , vniustlie chardged and blasphemed vs , persisted in his old d●●est●ble errors , tunne headlong into newe & more , and vnsufferably abused and peruerted the holy scriptures therevnto .

WE neuer denied , and therfore may euil be chardged to hold , That the Church might not be held in ciuile bond●ge , bodily oppression , persecution &c , by wicked vngodly guides both ciuil and ecclesiastical . But what of this ? may it herevpon he concluded , that therfore the Church may be held vnder Antichristes yoke in ecclesiastical or spiritual bondage ? There is no such consequence of this . yet this is the state of the question propounded by Mr. G. in his first answeare . And this he there endeuored to proue by this reason , as also by the places of the Songe . And nowe againe laboureth to bring to passe by an odde subtile di●tinction or diuision of his owne deuising , and by sondry moe places of scripture . He diuideth this antichristian yoke into two sortes , a strict yoke , and a lardge yoke . His strict or proper yoke , he saith is only spiritual and inwarde , where the faith and conscience are burdened & be in subiection to receiue Antichrist his lawes and worship . The lardger yoke is , when the Pastors of the Church doe vsurpe more then they ought in externall gouernment , or tyrannously abuse the power committed into their h●nds . This he calleth som antichristian yoke . The first he saieth cannot be borne without falling from the freedome we haue in CHRIST . The second ( as the lot of the Church ) may be willinglie suffred and wittinglie borne , and yet remayne the Church of CHRIST . and this by sondrie places of scripture he endeuoreth to proue .

First vnto his distinction or diuision of an antichristian yoke into straight and lardge , outward and inwarde , we acknowledge yt without the compasse of our reading , or vnderstanding . Wee stil affirme that no yoke or gouernement but only Christes , may be borne or receiued of the true Church . We furder saye , and already haue proued , that al the lawes and ordinances of Christes Testament ( howe outwardly and smale soeuer they may seeme ) concerne the conscience : and that the wilfull omission and transgression therof , bondeth both bodie and soule vnto iudgment , without repentance . So likewise we hold , that euerie antichristian yoke chardgeth and bindeth the conscience , both bodie and soule , It being opposite vnto , and a transgression of CHRISTES lawes and ordinances . And therfore wonder how these Academical diuines these pleaders for iniquitie d●re hatch vs these poysoned distinctions , of lardg and straight antichristian yokes , the one binding , the other not concerning the conscience . Except they can shewe Gods lawe . Or ells some transgression of Gods lawe that bindeth and chardgeth not the conscience . Vntil Mr. Gif . can doe this , he must giue vs leaue not to receiue his curious distinction of lardge and straight yoke , outward and inward . Wee thincke also his reason somewhat hardlie constrayned , when he concludeth , because Antichrists yoke is spiritual , Therfore onlie inwarde . Wee call yt spirituall because yt commeth ( as also Antichrist himself doth ) by the effectual worcking of Sathan : As also because it is wholly about spiritual and ecclesiastical actions and procedings . But shal we therfore say yt is onlie inwarde ? Might not by these reasons the whole visible Church yt self , al the publicke ministration , actions , and ordinances therof , as also euerie person & member therof be said only inward , because they are al said spiritual ? Againe it semeth that Mr. G. litle vnderstandeth what an Antichristian yoke is , that termeth euerie sinne and disorder arising in the Church , an antichristian yoke . We confesse the Church may transgresse of negligence or ignorance , yea & so suffer such vngodlie presumptuous persons & Ministers to abuse their power for a ceason ; yet this is not willingly to beare , or wittingly to receiue anie antichristian yoke ; neither cease they herevpon to be true Churches , whilest they despise not admonition , neither refuse to repent being reproued . Yet this we saie , the Church greatlie sinneth in suffring such presumptuous inordinate persons , whom they ought to cast out . And if so be the Church either want wil , and refuse to cast them out being admonished ; or want power and be not able to cast them out being discouered , but it brought in subiection & remayneth in bondage to these guides , yt ceaseth in this estate vnto our iudgment to be the true Church of Christ .

And nowe to the scriptures Mr. G. bringeth , that the true Church may wittingly and willinglie be brought into bondage of some antichristian yoke Ezech. 34. Ierem. 5. 31. Ier. 20. 1. Ioh. 7. 13. Iohn . 9. 22. First wee say , that these Ministers were by office and caling true Ministers of the Temple , but their Ministers by office and calling are not , and so no comparison . Then we say , that these were now so wholly degenerate and apostatate in Iehoiakim and Zedechiahs tymes , and the whole state so corrupted and fallen from God into most execrable idolatries , as they were not to be held the true Churches of God , but were pronownced by the holy Ghost whores , murtherers , idolaters , so commanded to be iudged , esteamed , and forsaken of al the faithful : As euerie where in those prophecies of Ezechiel & Ieremiah appeareth , & we haue lardglie in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION proued , And himself in that estate confessed , that they ought to be abandoned by the godlie . For the generall estate in the time of our Sauiour CHRISTS Ministrie and suffringes , wee haue also proued , that they were that malignant persecuting Church , which did excommunicate CHRIST and al that confessed and belieued in him : from whom our Sauiour and his Disciples separated .

And now to the place of the third epistle of Iohn . I wrote to the Church , but of them Diotrephes louing the primacie receiueth vs not . For this if I come , I wil bring to remembrance the workes which he doeth , prating against vs with malitious wordes , and not content in these , neither himself receiueth the bretheren , and them that wold he forbiddeth , and casteth them out of the Church . These verses I haue thus englished to the worde , because me thinckes the vsuall translation ( though in yt selfe not euil ) seemeth a litle too much to nourish some false collections , which neither the wordes nor circumstance of the text wil beare . But now what wil Mr. G. gather or conclude from this place ? Diotrephes he saith abused the power of gouernment ambitiouslie . If he meane the power of the whole Church , the power of communication , it would be shewed and proued wherein . If he say , in that he cast the bretheren out of the Church , We would first knowe of him what bretheren the Apostle there speaketh of , whether those strangers , or such members of that congregation as were willing to receiue those strangers , and whether they were caste out by waye of excommunication . If he say those members that were willing &c , we affirme the whole context , the argument of the Epistle precedent , the faultes of Diotrephes reckoned vp , & the admonition subsequent , to shew the contrarie , that he meaneth of the other godlie strangers , Gaius in the premises being commended for interraignement of those strangers . Diotrephes here blamed for these faultes , Of an ambitious humor louing & aspiring to be chief or first , and could not endure to be vnder the Apostles . 1. Therfore he receiued not the Apostles letter , 2. He pratled against them with euil wordes , 3. neither himself receiued these strangers , 4. But forbad them that would , 5. And so kept or caste them out of the Church . The admonition was , that they should not imitate euil , but good &c. Manie reasons might be drawen from these circumstances , from sondrie wordes in the original , but especially by the right diuiding of these two verses it wil appeare , not to be meant of the abuse of anie censure of the Church , of excommunication . As also by the exhortation drawen from these faultes . For how could Gaius or anie other of the Church imitate him in this , when there was no more Pastors of that congregation but Diotrephes ( if he were a Pastor as they suppose ) and by their rule onlie the Pastor maie excommunicate ? But what now if it were admitted ( which can neuer by this scripture be proued ) that Diotrephes did both vsurpe & abuse the power and gouernment of the Church , what wil Mr. G. collect and enforce from hence ? First that this tyrannous oppression did not make them to be no longer Christes Church which remayned vnder him . Wel , and what wil , he conclude hereupon , That these Parishes which wittinglie remaine in bondage vnder the yoke of these popish Prelates , which receiue this false antichristian ministrie , this popish idolatrous worship & ordinances &c. are the true Churches of Christ ? As ther is no consimilitude ( except in this one poincte of euil , wherin yet these Parishes far exceed ) so is ther no consequent or comparison betwixt a Church & no Church , a true Church & ministrie , and a false Church & ministrie . Neither haue we a better argument in al Mr. G. his booke to approue the ministrie & procedings of the Church of England , them the most odious sinnes & faultes of other Churches ; which were not recorded by the holy Ghoste for vs to imitate or to pleade for sinne by , so much as left for examples , and as yt were lande markes , to flee sinne by . Againe this Church here remayned not wilfullie vnder this tyrannie of Diotrephes ; They neuer had bene reproued and admonished , therfore . Howsoeuer we iustifie not or tollerate the least sinne that God condemneth in his worde , yet we make not anie sinne , vntil impenitencie and obstinacie be ioyned thervnto , to disanul and breake the Couenant with God . Neither doe we make euerie inordinate and presumptuous part ( when the Ministers of the Church extend themselues beyonde their lyne and the limites of their office ) straight waye an antichristian yoke , if they be not seene or repressed at the first . For as it is said , both the Church and Ministers may sinne in such thinges and transgresse the rule of ignorance or of negligence . And so what wil this example helpe their Church , which standeth wilfullie and wittinglie in seene bondage vnto these antichristian Prelates ? But Mr. G. saith the Apostle did not will the faithful to separate themselues , or not anie longer to obeye Diotrephes in anie thing ▪ wel , and euen this his owne fonde collection doth shewe , that Diotrephes sinne was neither so preiudicial , heynouse , or publicklie knowen to the Church , as he would make yt . For if Diotrephes had either vsurped the whole power , or abused the publique gouernment of the Church so far , as to caste out of his owne sole aucthoritie in his owne name what bretheren he luste , yea those of the most vertuous and charitable , he had not to haue bene suffred in the Church , muchlesse to haue remayned a Minister with such publicke heynouse sinnes vpon him . This had bene contrarie to the lawes and rules of Christes Testament , to the practize and procedings of the other Apostles , to the safetie of the Church . To al which it is not credible or audible , that this Apostle would be so contrarie ▪ neither may it be inferred from this place without grieuous peruerting the scriptures , and iniurie to the holy Ghost . If Diotrephes fault had bene in this nature so heynouse and publick , what needed the Apostle to say : If I come I will declare or bring his worckes to remembrance , the Greeke worde is hupomneso . submonebo . I will submonish . Againe , the begining of the. 10. verse , Dia touto . propter hoc for this . sheweth an other cause , an other mattter , an other fault . Mr. Giffardes other place . Iohn 16. v. 2. serueth his tourne as euil . They shal caste you out of their Synagogues , yea the hower cometh that euerie one that killeth you shal thinck he doth GOD good seruice . It is strange that Mr. G. should thincke and vse this as spoken of the true Church , when the verie next verse hath these wordes . And these thinges they wil doe vnto you , because they haue not knowen the Father nor me . I hope these are no marckes of the true Church , not to knowe God nor Christ , or to vse such barbarous hostilitie towardes the disciples and faithful seruantes of Christ . If then these marckes , this tyrannous vsage , & the bloode of the Sainctes be founde vpon the Church of England , they shal by this glasse and place descrie her to be the malignant persecuting Synagogue , and not that persecuted Church consisting of Christes true disciples and faithful seruants & witnesses . As to his other shoteancker and fundamental vsual place at al assaies . 2 Thess. 2. v. 4. ( from whence he draweth a maine argument from the Church of Rome and of England , to proue them both the Churches of God , Because it is there said that Antichrist shal sit in the Temple of God , And Antichrist sitteth in the Church of Rome and England , Therfore the Churches of Rome and of England are the Churches of God ) I doe refer the reader to the seconde transgression for answeare , which place and argument he shal there find lardglie handled and discussed .

IN the next poincte Mr. G. in his bad conscience finding the litle consequent from ciuile to antichristian bondage , quite forgeteth , forsaketh , & tourned the question , And would now make vs or at least make others belieue that we hold that the Church maie be in no outwarde bondage . wheras we hold yt may not beare Antichristes yoke , or be brought into anie antichristian bondage . Hauing fullie set downe this opinion as ours , he pronounceth vs . Anabaptistes , and wondreth how so prowde a spirit could be in rotten flesh , so flatlie to contradict the spirit of God in these places Genes. 15. Exod. 20. and al the places of the Prophets , where the Lorde threatneth that they should be ledd into Babilon , & be there in bondage . To take awaye his wonder though not his follie , We giue him againe and againe to vnderstand , That we neuer denied but that the Church might be in ciuile bondage , in bodilie oppression , but neuer might be brought into anie antichristian bondage , either lardge or straight , outward or inwarde , as he distinguisheth . And therfore willed him to put difference betwixt ciuile and antichristian bondage , betwixt bodilie oppression , persecution &c , and anie ecclesiastical antichristian yoke . Wee acknowledge the Church to haue bene in ciuile bondage , in great persecution and bodilie oppression in Egipt & Babilon ; But that they were there in anie ecclesiastical bondage , or receiued anie antichristian yoke , we vtterlie denie . And demande of Mr. G. where he can shew that anie of that faithful there bowed downe to their idolatries , receiued anie newe lawes and ordinances at those tyrantes for the worship of God , the administration and gouernment of the Church ; Or if he can shew that anie did thus , whether those persons were by the worde of God to be esteamed members of the Church ? And as to the place by him alleadged . 1 Corinth. 7. 21. 22. Art thou caled a bond seruant care not for it ; For the bond Seruant cal●d in the Lord , is the Lordes freeman , yt fullie sheweth that difference which we are driuen so often to inculcate vnto him betwixt ciuile and antichristian bondage , The one here shewed to be an holie estate and calling , no preiudize to the kingdome of God , or to the libertie of the Sainctes , The other in al those places aboue recited to be contrarie to the kingdome of CHRIST , to our christian libertie and faith , to be intollerable , and not to be borne or suffred of the Church , or anie member of CHRIST . In as much as Antichrist is an aduersarie , an opposite and lawlesse fellowe , that lifteth himself vp not onlie against , but aboue God , shewing himself that he is God , 2 Thess. 2. causing al both smale and great , riche and poore to receiue his marcke Reuel . 13. which marcke we haue declared from sondri places to be bondage and subiection to his statutes and decrees , euen as christian libertie is the marcke of the children of the free woman , of the heauenlie Ierusalem ▪ Which bondage and subiection being the marck of the Beast , all the men that receiue the same either vpon their fore-heade or vpon their hand , shal drinck of the wyne of the wrath of God , of that pure wyne mixt in the cup of his wrath , and shal be tormented in fire & brimstone before the holie Angells & before the Lambe . and the smoke of their torment shall ascend euermore , and they shall haue no rest day nor night , which worship the Beast & his image , and whosoeuer receiueth the prynt of his name . Reu. 14. And it followeth immediatlie . Here is the patience of the Sainctes , here they that keep the commandements , of GOD and faith of IESVS . Wherevpon we may conclude , that no antichristian yoke , not euen in the least things is to be borne or suffred in Christes Church by waye of subiection not for the space of one hower , But all thinges rather to be vndergonne , then to stoope downe to the Beast to beare his marcke , or worship his image .

BY this tyme Mr. Gif . hauing shot off al his newe ordinance to litle purpose , retireth himself againe to his old skonce , & wil by no meanes be driuen from his two places of the Songe . Wherbie ( when he before so missed to proue the Church in anie antichristian bondage ) he nowe letteth that matter fal , and bringeth these places to proue the Church to stand in outwarde bondage . Which doctrine thoughe it was neuer by vs denied , but that the Church might be in ciuile & bodily bondage , yet wee affirme nothing lesse to be proued by these places . In the first wee hope Mr. G. wil not be so grosse to take those vineyardes for locall vineyardes , Cant. 1. and that setting or putting to keepe them , for ciuile or bodilie bondage . for besides that nothing could be more grosse or diuers from that heauenlie spirituall argument of Salomon in that songe , Soe would CHRIST neuer wil the Church or anie member of the Church , to shake off anie lawfull or ciuile yoke in that maner , to depart from their earthlie Lords & Masters , to refuse such lawfull seruice & honest labour as they shoulde enioyne them . Likewise to the seconde place There may great difference be put betwixt bondage , Cant. 5. and persecution or oppression . That the Church there was in grieuous persecution is euident , but that yt was in anie bondage we cannot by that text or anie circumstance therof perceiue . Thus Mr. G. euerie way misseth his marcke , and as a giddye droncken man he reeleth from one side to the other . Sometimes endeuouring by these places to proue the Church in bondage to some antichristian yoke , yet not daring to affirme those vineyardes ( which her mothers sonnes put her to keepe ) to be Antichristes vineyardes , which if affirme and proue not , there is no antichristian yoke to be dreamed on in that place , al the strength of his reason or rather delusion lijng in these wordes The Sonnes of my Mother were incensed against me , they set me the keper of the vineyardes , mie vineyarde that to me I kept not . The true interpretation whereof it here booteth not to stande vpon , sufficeth that no antichristian yoke or bondage can from this place , or from anie one worde therof be drawen and inforced . But yet Mr. G. doth herein presse vs with these places of the songe , in that the faithfull did not here separate themselues from vnder these euil pastors and gouernours , as herestickes and schismatickes doe . And this he againe proueth by th' example of our Sauiour and his Disciples , who did not separate themselues from the high Priestes , Scribes , and Pharasies , so long as the vineyarde was not taken from them &c. To which proof he hath in the SECOND TRANSGRESSION his ful answere . To these places : In the first the Church hath an absolute and direct commandement from God himself , To goe foorth , not to staye in the steps of that flocke , to feed her kids aboue the tabernacles of those sheepheardes . In the second we can but wonder to see Mr. G. so insensate & grosse to imagine , that these persecuting watchmen were Ministers or members of the true Church . Especiallie seing the two Churches so liuelie in that place described , The one malignant & persecuting , the other the true Church and persecuted . Betweene which I weene there is as great a separation as betwixt light and darcknes , betwixt hel and heauen . Neither did the Church there staye with , or was stayed by those watchmen , but went to the Daughters of Ierusalem to seek and enquire for Christ ; much-lesse ( as this man doteth ) stayed in their fould in their tentes , Or remayned vnder the gouernment and bondage of those persecuting watchmen that openlie opposed against Christ , and could not endure that the Church should seek him . Neither can anie thing be imagined more false or contrary to the argument of that heauenlie songe , then that the Church of Christ ; may at anie hand beare or stand in anie bondage to the yoke of Antichrist . Whose necke Christ adornes with chaynes , and she againe her doore postes with garlandes for him . Song . 1. 9. & 6. 13. Vnder whose heade CHRITES left hand alwaies is , and his right hande embraceth her . Song . 2. 6. Song . 3. Shee layethe holde of CHRIST , and bringethe him into her Mothers house , into the chamber of her that conceiued her . There also is his bedde set vp muche more glorious then the marriage bedde of Salomon , about which bedd sixtie , valiant men of the mightie men of Israel are said to stand and guarde , all of them handling the sworde , expert in warre , with his sworde vpon his thinge from the feare by might . Song . 4. The necke of the Church is likned to the tower of Daniel built for the armorie , where a thowsand shieldes doe hange , al the targetts of the stronge men . And Song . 8. Christ , saith his vineyard is allwaies & wholly before him , he chalendgeth and gathereth al the revenues therof himself , he diuideth them not nor imparteth th●m to anie other as Salomon or other earthlie Princes are constrayned to doe . What part or right then , what honor or homage , especiallie what bondage is left here to Antichrist ? But thus they are broken that thus wilfullie & of set purpose stumble at the worde , as this man doeth .

YEt procedeth this graceles man furder , And is not afraide to affirme , That the Church & euerie member therof is in some spiritual bondage to sinne , and draweth an argument from this position . That therfore much more may yt be in some outward bondage to Antichrist . This execrable position and argument , the holie Bishops and learned Priestes of England are content to let publiquelie passe from their viewe and correction , because yt pleadeth for the antichristian vsurpation of the one , and the seruile bondage of the other . But when this argument shal neuer so litle by the worde of God be skanned , yt shal be found most heretical and blasphemouse . For verilie if after our faith in Christ , wee be now left in anie bondage to sinne , then doth sinne stil liue and raigne in vs , and we stil bounde vnto and with yt , then hath not Christ fullie freed vs from the curse of the law , Death , and Hel. Then was not Christes death a sufficient ransome for , neither extended to al our sinnes , neither hath he subdued or set vs free from al our enimies , neither haue we as yet anie perfect peace or reconciliation with God , And then was his comming vayne , then can no flesh be saued therbie , then must wee looke for an other redeemer , or ells looke for him to come againe to dye for our sinnes that remaine and raigne in vs . For the rewarde of the least sinne is death , being a transgression of Gods lawe ; And if wee be in bondage to sinne , then are we not Kinges and Priestes vnto God . Is not this a meete Minister of the Gospel , that knoweth not yet the worck of our redemption , the benefite of Christes death , the priueledge of the Sainctes , that cannot and will not learne to put difference betwixt the frailtie or pronenes to commit sinne which is in this mortal flesh of all the faithful , and that bondage and subiection to sinne which is neuer founde in anie of the faithfull , after they haue once trulie acknowledged and embraced Christ ? Howsoeuer the ministrie of the Church of England may allowe & publish these doctrines , yet are they most odious & execrable to the soule and conscience of all that knowe , feare , or loue the Lorde IESVS CHRIST .

NOwe at length we are come to the second proposition of our argument , or rather to the fourth TRANSGRESSION wherewith their Church of England is chardged , vzt . That their Churches are ruled by and wilfully remaine in subiection vnto an antichristian and vngodly gouernment contrarie to the institution of our Sauiour CHRIST . This wee shewed in our first writing by the publicke and present estate of the Church of England , in their whole ministrie , worship , administration , ordinances , ceremonies , censures , cannons , customes , Courtes , to be antichristian , euen the same yoke and gouernment that the Pope sometimes exercised by those his naturall children and vnfaithful seruants the Bishopps , who nowe haue gotten this power into their owne handes . Most of these ( if not all ) haue bene alreadie in this present treatise declared and proued to be idolatrous , popish , blasphemous , false , and antichristian , wholly swarued from the rules of Christes Testament . Anie of these howe Mr. G. hath by the worde of God approued , let the vnpartial reader iudge ; This their ecclesiasticall gouernment which nowe is in question , he faith is the same in matter though yt varie in forme f●om CHRISTES gouernment . Wherof nowe is arisen a great question in their Church , Whether that Apostolicke forme of discipline which they prescribed to the Churches , should be perpetuall , or variable . The Reformistes that hold yt perpetuall sue and complaine to the Parliaments for the same Apostolicke forme to be established , and to haue this present gouernment of these Bishopps and their false hierarchie with their Courtes and offices quite remooued out of the Church and abolished . The Prelates that holde yt arbitrable at Princes pleasures according to the variable estate of tymes and Countries , holde fast that popish inordinate vsurped power which they haue gotten into their handes , and therbie incarcerate , silence , seque●ter , depose al such of the contrarie faction as speake against their power , and present gouernment , with al possible hostilitie . yet al this deadlie debate Mr. G. couereth in a worde , calling it but a question about the outward forme of discipline : As also hideth all the other most heynouse and detestable enormities that arise and flowe from their monstruous antichristian gouernment , vnder the same title of outward forme of discipline . For both sides he saith doe agree in the matter That CHRIST hath left a power to his Churche to chuse , to trye , and to ordaine Pastors and Teachers , And likewise that he hath giuen the power of admonition , suspension , excommunication . Onlie here is the difference , that th' one side woulde haue this power exercised by Presbiteries of Pastors , Teachers , Elders , as in the Apostles tyme ; The other hold it the more salf and quiet waye to commit this power to the handes of the Bishop . Which side holdeth the truth you shall hereafter knowe Mr. Giffard● minde ; when the battell is fought he wil then tell you of which side he wil be . Till then he wil take the Bisshops side against the Brownists tooth & nayle , and affirme their gouernment to be the holie gouernment of Christ , and the defaultes therof not such as make yt to become antichristian , or a yoke of bondage , as the Brownist with open throte exclaymeth . And for the other side ( wherof he sometyme was ) they , howsoeuer they woulde haue yt remoued , yet are far from the Brownistes opinion ; for they for the peace of the Church had rather stand vnder yt , then vnder Christs crosse by witnessing against yt . Concerning the opinions of both these sides for the execution of this discipline they speake of , wee haue alreadie shewed both sides to erre , and fully refuted their seueral opinions by the way in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION , where we haue declared that th' execution of the censures & power of the Church belongeth neither to such a sequestred withdrawen presbiterie , Nor yet to anie one man , but vnto the whole Churchioyntlie &c. We haue also in that Second Transgression shewed the forgerie of their idol Suspension , and of the popish Excommunication of these Bishops . And how the Church of England hath no power to excommunicate any person for any sinne or heresie whatsoeuer : but only abuse this most high iudgment of God vpon earth , to their filthie lucre and pompe , excommunicating for nothing but for contempt of their antichristian Courtes , Or for not paying their rauenous fees and extortions , as also absoluing them for money when they please . Whervpon whilest they want this power of excommunication , it followeth ▪ that admonitions were vayne & fruictlesse amongst them , when they cannot haue their due power , processe , and effect . sondrie of them also as these Bishops , the whole rabble of their false hierarchi● and Priestes being incorrigible , such as wil be subiect to no censure , neither receiue admonition ; but be more readie to smite & blaspheme such as reproue them . Moreouer in the THIRD PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION we haue shewed , how their Churches haue no power in themselues to elect or ordaine them any Ministers , but are inforced to receiue them from the Patrone & the Bishop , whether they will or no. Where we haue also set downe the counterfeight and false maner of the ordination and institution of their Ministers or Priestes . Whereby euidentlie appeareth what kinde of gouernment this their discipline of the Church of England is . So that here remayneth the lesse to be spoken of this poyncte , the chief matters being alreadie handled . Onlie here we wil a litle entreate of this controuersie betwixt these Bishops and Priestes about their forme of Discipline , and somwhat generallie of their Courtes in fewe wordes , and so put an end to this poyncte .

THis controuersie Mr. G. affirmeth to be about the forme & not about the matter of discipline , wherin both sides agree That Christ hath lefte a power to his Church &c. Doth not Mr. G. deserue high commandations , that with one logicall distinction can both defend all the Popes hierarchie , Courtes , Cannons &c. and make also these two opposite factions the Bishops & Priestes to agree in matter ? So that now belike al this long bitter hostilitie , contention , and controuersie amongst them hath bene about no matter . And then wil not this rare distinction hide or excuse the blame of either partie . Againe ( saue that we wil haue no strife about inanitie of wordes ) we alwaise tooke the forme to haue giuen the beeing to the thing , and to haue bene so principal a parte therof , as yt might neuer be seuered from the same , howsoeuer in way of discourse the forme and the matter may for argument sake be distinguished . For euen common sense teacheth , that no man or creature may be separate from their peculiar and natural , forme or shape . Neither anie member of them from that forme , place , and office , which God hath giuen & appoyncted to that member . But al men hould yt monstruous to haue a mixte or false shape . How much more impossible & intollerable were it , but to admit anie other forme , or to change that forme which God hath giuen & apoincted to anie action of the Church ? Either that forme which God hath giuen & prescribed is no true and right forme , Or ells those actions without that true and right forme , cannot be said those true actions of the Churche . Howe monstruous then is their presumption that dare vndertake to change , yea to abrogate those formes , rules , ordinances that Christ hath prescribed to his Church in his Testament ? Howe shamelesse and blasphemouse their ●mpudēcie , that dare pronownce this adulterate monstruous discipline of their Church , the same in matter and effect with that gouernment Christ hath prescribed ? Is not this of the one sort to sit in the Temple of God as God , to change the ordinances & c ? Is it not in the other with the false Prophet to dawbe and vphold the throne of the Beast ? If God vnto MOSES prescribed an exact paterne in al thinges that belonged Exo. 25. 4● to that Tabernacle , Hebr. 8. 5. euen to the least pinne , tape , hooke , vtilence , with the due forme , Hebr. 3. 5. shape , measure , waight , place , tyme , v●e &c , and left nothing to his wil or discreation ( but his praise was that he was founde faithful in al the Lordes house , Hebr. 2. and 12. 25. &c. and had made and donne all thinges according to the paterne shewed him in the mounetaine ) . If that worde spoken by Angels was made firme , and euerie transgression and disobedience receiued iust retribution of reward ; How shal they escape , and where shal they stand , that neglect , yea reiect , that heauenlie arch-type , and onlie perfect paterne of CHRISTES Testament , deliuered by the holie Ghost to the Apostles , by the Apostles to the Churches , confirmed by the death of CHRIST , and by diuers signes & wonders from heauen : that take boldnes to innouate , change & alter the inuiolable perpetual ordinances of CHRISTES Testament , and to set vp a n●we Leitourgie , and to bring in a newe ministrie and gouernment according to the same . 1 Chron 28 ●1 &c. If God were so iealous ouer the ordinances and vtilences of that material Temple , which cosisted but of wood and stone , that he permitted not anie thing to those excellent seruantes Moses , Dauid , Salomon 1 Kings 6. and 7. chap. in al that busines , which they receiued not by diuine oracle from his owne mouth , Leu. 10. Neither suffred wilful transgression in anie that drewe neare to administer before him , Nomb. 16. but executed most fearefull examples vpon sondrie , 2 Samu. 6. as Nadab , Abihu , Corath , vzzah vzziah &c. How much more iealouse and seueare shall he be ouer the ordinances and administration 2 Chron. 26 of this spiritual house , which consisteth of the soules and bodies of men , Heb. 12. 28. ouer that kingdome of his Sonne which cannot be shaken , ouer that Tabernacle which cannot be remoued , Esa. 33. 20. the stakes wherof can neuer be taken away , neither shall anie of the cordes therof de broken for euer ? 1 Cor. 3. 17. Shal not the Lord destroye them which thus misbuilde and dest●oy his Temple ? Can they thinck themselues wiser , or more in fauour with God their Moses , Dauid , Salomon ? 1 Cor. 11. To haue greater priueledge then the Apostles ? 1 Cor. 4. 17. who deliuered not anie thing which they had not receiued , Mat. 28. ●0 . And bownde all builders and Churches to that which they deliuered , vnto the worldes end , teachinge them to obserue all thinges whatsoeuer Christ had commaunded them , 2 Tim. 1. 1● . to keepe the true paterne and that holie commandement vndefiled and without blame , 1 Tim. 6. 13. 14. vntil that appearing of our Lord IESVS CHRIST . yea can they thinck themselues wiser and fuller of eyes within and without , Zech. 3. 9. to haue greater sight and prouidence of thinges present and to come , thinges inwarde and outwarde then the Lorde and builder of the house himself , Hebr. 3. 6. That they dare thus presumptuouslie violate and innouate the ordinances , the outwarde forme of gouernment & administration ( to vse their owne wordes ) which he hath instituted for his Church & kingdome ? Thinck they these of lesse moment & value , than those ordinances & ●utward formes belonging to the Tabernacle & Temple vnder the lawe ▪ Or is not this to perfer that material Temple & the ordinances therof to the spiritual Temple & the Testament of Christ ? The person & ministrie of Moses , to the person & ministrie of Christ ? To make Moses more faithful & absolute in his house then Christe ? In as much as the ordinances of the Temple were perfect and inuiolable , such as no Prince or Priest might add to , alter , innouate , or breake the least of them . But the ordinances & formes of Christ in his Church so imperfect , weake , insufficient , yea so incongruent & vnmeete , as they are left arbitrable at the discreation of men , conformed to the wil of Princes , to polecies , times , and states ? yea doe not these men that hold the forme or maner of the administration of Christes discipline ( as they terme yt ) variable and arbitrable , and that ●resume to prescribe an other maner of executing the same , hold their owne waies & deuises more wise , equal , and conuenient than the Lords waies , and thrust their owne into the place of the Lords ? which formes & deuises of theirs can no more agree or be ioyned to the Lordes ordinances in his gouernment , order , administration , then heauen & earth can be mingled . Neither may they without sinne be compared togither . The Lords forme that he hath giuen & disposed to euerie part , action , and exercise of his Church only & best fitting & agreeing to the same , neither suffring or receiuing auy other . Reuel. 21. 16 For as it is written , the forme of this Citie is fowre square , most firme , immoueable , and proportionable the height , length , and breath therof being equal . Yea as our Sauiour pronounceth with his owne mouth most gratiously & often in the Songe , Al the members , ●ant . 4. 6. features , and proportions of his Church , are most beautifull , amiable , 1. Chap. and euen rauishing the senses to behold , as we see there from top to toe described ; not only in the seueral partes , members , and ioyntes , but euen in the proper peculiar formes , proportions , features of each . How wicked then & diuelish is the opinion of these Bishops & their side , that hold the formes , order , and maner of the actions , administration & gouernment of the Church prescribed in Christs Testament , and together ioyned & commanded with the actions &c , not to be perpetual , alwaies meete or convenient , but to be variable at the disposition & will of men ? But how monstruous is their presumption , and barbarous their hauocke , that dare not only to bereaue the Church of that heauenly forme which Christ hath prescribed in his Testament , but in stead therof set vp & impose their owne L●ito●rgie , their owne ougly , deformed , and monstruous shapes , Reuel. 13. which can no more agree to the offices & actions of Christes Church , then the pawes of a Beare , the mouth of a Lyon &c , can agree & be ioyned to an humane bodie . which strange shapes & ●alse members agree & belong rather to the monstruous bodie of that Beast , then vnto the heauenly bodie of CHRIST . For if the great Creator haue not permitted or giuen power to any mortal man to make Esay . 14. 13. 14. 15. or giue shape to the least member or part of an humane natural bodie , not to make one hayre , or being made to giue yt colour or sharpe , white or blacke , short or long ; Muchlesse than hath the Lorde & great Architect of the church his spiritual bodie , giuen power to any Angel or mortal creature to make or change the least part or action therof in matter or forme . Rom. 11. 34. But as he hath not called anie man to councell concerning these thinges , 1 Cor. 2. 16. but hath deliuered vnto all men a perfect paterne in his worde , 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. where we haue his whole minde , howe he will haue all thinges donne in his Church , so it behoueth al men soberly to rest in , and carefully to beware not to change , Act. 20. 32 transgresse , or swarue from the same at any hand willingly : Heb. 12. 28. 29. knowing that euen the Lorde our God is a consuming fire , and wil be serued also of vs in this his kingdome to his owne good liking with reuerence & feare .

Now seeing we finde the forme & paterne which Christ hath instituted & giuen most perfect & absolute , such as cannot be corrected or amended by anie humane deuise or ingenie , such as cannot be separate from the partes & actions vnto which Christ hath ioyned them , neither may those places or actions receiue anie other forme , but that therbie they become adulterate , displeasing to God , pernitious to men . It is euident that this gouernment which the Bishops exercise ouer the Church , cannot be the true gouernment or discipline of Christ , because by their owne confessions yt is executed after an other forme & maner then Christ hath instituted , Seing ( as we haue by manie reasons & expresse Scriptures proued ) the forme is inioyned & ioyned together with the action by the same aucthoritie , neither may by any mortal man be changed or separate from the same . So y● Mr. G. his owne confession in that their gouernment wanteth the true forme ( for here we reason not of faultes in a true forme , but of a diuers & false forme ) is reason enough to shew , that it is not that true gouernment which Christ hath instituted , And then must yt needes followe to be a false and antichristian gouernment : And consequently all that stand vnder yt to stand vnder the yoke of Antichrist , and not to haue Christ their kinge & gouernour . Moreouer the Brownist with whom he hath to doe , hath learned & doth fully belieue , That CHRIST ruleth in his Church by his owne officers and lawes , and not by any such popish Officers , Courtes , and Cannons , as these BBs. doe in the Church of England . All which he hopeth Mr. G. will not say to be of the forme of discipline . For sure he holdeth a true ministrie and the rules of the Bible to be of such necessitie , as the true Church may neuer receiue anie other Ministers or lawes for their administration and gouernment . We haue likewise lardglie alreadie proued this whole ministrie , administration , ordinance , and maner of gouernment , not to be according to the rules of Gods worde , but forged , popish , and false . Only in this place we would knowe of Mr. G. if the Bishopps and their false Hierarchie , Courtes , iurisdiction , gouernment were of God , how then these learned Reformist Preachers may sue & seeke to haue them vtterly remoued out of the church . I would not here be vnderstood of their persons ( wherof might be some colour & reason enough ) but of their offices , Courtes , iurisdiction , gouernment : Al which they would haue vtterly abolished & taken away ; which if they were of Christ could not be donne without most heynouse impietie & sacriledge , without a most grievous wounde & mayme in the body of Christ , by cutting off such pretious and principal members and officers of Christ , and that for euer . If those BBs , their accomplices , Courtes , and gouernment were of Christ , then are these Reformistes which sue and labour to haue them remoued and abolished , most dangerous and pestilent seducers , that perswade the Prince and realme to doe this violence to the bodie of Christ his Church , to reiect the holy gouernment and ministrie of Christ , which who so despiceth or putteth away , despiceth & putteth away Christ himself ; and so perswad and drawe they their Prince and the whole land into the assuted wrath and vengeance of God . ●ut nowe on the contrarie , if these Bishops , officers , courtes , gouernment be not of Christ , then belong they not vnto , neither haue anie thing to doe or to intermeddle with the ministrie or gouernment , or anie action of the Church of Christ . How great then on the other side is the perfidie & apostasie of these Reformistes , that knewe and pronounced in open Parliament that they were not of God , and sought to haue them vtterlie remoued ; Yet now for filthie lucre , & for feare of persecution subscribe , sweare , and submit to their antichristian Hierarchie , power , courtes , iurisdiction , & to al the detestable enormities that flowe from their throne ? That diriue their ministrie from , & exercise yt vnder them ? yea that exercise their ministrie & keep the whole land vnder their yoke , and so in the knowen wrath of God ? How odious is the hypocrisie & apostasie of this graceles ma● , that somtymes knewe & stood against these enormities , yet now as a withered fruictlesse tree twice deade , plucked vp by the rootes , is fallen & apostatat from al faith , light , sauoure , conscience , & feeling , as that starre wormewood that poysoneth & maketh bitter & deadly al the waters he faleth into : now pleading & fighting for that apostatical throne of iniquitie , terming that nowe the gouernment & power of Christ in matter and effect , which he himself Page 56. & 58. of his booke confesseth not to binde in heauen , not to be iust as in respect of them that doe excommunicate &c , colouring al the abominations that flowe from this throne , and al the controuersies about their gouernment with a diuers outward forme . I hope he wil admit the Testament & ministrie of Christ to be of the matter & substance . And then shall his halting on both sides , & double dissimulation appeare to al men , that durst not set downe so much as the controuersie amongst themselues trulie . which yet T. C. his Lord of Winchester dealt more rowndly in , flatlie denijng the Apostolick discipline to be either perpetual or necessarie : but especially elections , excommunication &c , by the people to be either expedient or tollerable , bringing sondrie fleshly reasons & politicke inconueniences & impediments to the contrarie , the refutation of whose blasphemies belongeth to an other place . But this man thincking to keepe in with both sides , setteth downe the controuersie to be onlie about the forme & not about the matter of discipline , although the Bishops abash not in playne wordes to the veiwe of the world , & to the face of Christ , to denie the verie matter yt self . As both sides also doe in deedes & effect ; whilest they acknowledg that Christ hath giuen vnto his Church the power of elections & censures , Tit. 1. 16. yet both of them withdraw this whole power from the Church . The one into their sequestred Synodes , the other into their popish Courtes ; 1 Cor. 4. 20 If so be this power wil be graunted to be of the matter of discipline . But this question is soone put to an end , whilest the Bishops denie the Apostolick discipline yt self as tollerable in the common wealth , Luk. 19. 14 &c. and flatlie denie Christ to reigne ouer them or ouer this Church by his owne officers & lawes . And therfore except he wil giue their persons , Math. 21. 33 accomplices , and trayne , an immunitie from al ecclesiastical censures , not to be subiect for anie transgression or error to the reproof or power of the Church : yea except he wil resigne his right into their handes , and giue them leaue to reigne & rule ouer al the Churches in this land , and that by their owne officers , courtes , cannons , constitutions , iniunctions &c , he is no Kinge or Christ for them : Nay if he wil not bowe downe to al these and take their yoke vpon him . he is no subiect for them , Reu. 13. 17 he may not buy and sell , nor liue in this market , in this Church . Which Officers , Courtes , Cannons &c , if Mr. G. had proued to haue bene of the matter of Christes discipline ( for of the forme we wil al graunt him they are not ) and had approued & iustified them by the worde of God , then had he some colour to aske this question , whether some faultes in their discipline should make yt antichristian . But seing these Bishopps & their Courtes , Officers , Cannons &c : were by vs affirmed vnto him to haue no foundation or mention in Gods worde , no place nor vse in Christs Church , but to be contrarie to the one , most preiudicial & dangerous to the other , And he in all this space could bring vs no defence for them , Wee cannot see by his owne reason ( seing they haue neither the true matter nor the forme of CHRISTES gouernment ) howe their gouernment should be held and esteamed the true and holie gouernment of Christ ; And then must that sequel ( which he so feareth ) needes followe , that yt is an antichristian gouernment & yoke , such as the true Church & seruantes of Christ may not beare and wittinglie stand vnder .

To perticulate all the seuerall corruptions , abuses , enormities of the gouernment of these antichristian Bishops , is not in mie skil or power , not knowing in anie measure their Cannons , customes , orders , priueledges , proceedings . Onlie this in general I may affirme , that of such pompeous stagelike popish mixt Courtes , handling both ciuile & ecclesiastical causes iudiciallie , I neuer read through al the book of God , or to belonge to Christes Church ; Especiallie exercising such absolute power & iurisdiction ouer al Churches , causes , and persons ecclesiastical : yea vsurping , assuming , and executing the whole power , offices , and dueties of al Churches , yea euen the proper prerogatiues & priuiledges only belonging to Christ himself . To make , impose , or abrogate lawes , To giue or rather sel licences & dispensations , to haue more benefices then one , to marrie , to eate flesh at tymes of restrainte &c , To cal , sommon , and fetch by constrainte al causes & persons of the Church before them , There to determine & decree , to censure , silence , suspend , sequester , depose , incarcerate , punish by mulct what Minister or member of the Church they lust of their owne absolute aucthoritie without any controlement reprose or redresse . The Church hauing no power or libertie to reprooue or refuse , no not so much as call into question anie thing they do or decree , to rebuke or censure these inordinate lawlesse fellowes for anie thing they doe either publickely or priuatly . The Church must receiue & obey as most holie , whatsoeuer they decree or impose with al reuerence as the oracles of God , though they be neuer so contrarie to the worde of God . The Church or any other member of the Church in these Courtes be not permitted so much as to propounde or pleade their owne cause ; But are by them compelled to their romish litigious course & procedinges , To speake & pleade by a feed Advocate or Proctor , after their popish order and custome . Where for bribes & fees , al causes ( be they neuer so fowle & corrupt ) are handled , pleaded , and proceede , that I say not succeede . And without such bribes & fees , no cause ( be yt neuer so iust , and the partie neuer so poore or innocent ) hath audience or help . Here being so many officers , catchpolles , attendantes to be feed & pleased . To all these rauenous Birdes with fingers the suetors & sommoned become a pray . But especially the faithful , such as speak against , and will not of conscience and faith vnto God stoope downe vnto their antichristian power , or obey their vngodly decrees ; These shal be worse vsed then any trayterous Papists or facinorous persons whatsoeuer ; who shall all of them by their purse or freindes escape well enough & find fauour , when these poore soules shall neuer geat out of their handes without wrack either of bodie or soule , either death or denying the faith . These though there be no direct matter , euidence , witnesses , or accusers against them , yet shall themselues be inforced to a corporal oth ( as they call it ) vpon and by a booke , to answeare directly and truly to such articles and poyncts as shal be propownded vnto them . If they denie or make conscience either of the maner or matter of this oth , then instead of godly instruction or christian persuasion , they are forthwith committed to prison , yea for the most parte to close prison , there to remaine shut vp from al ayre , exercise , friendes , dueties , callings &c , vntill they either yeild to take this idolatrous , blasphemous , and impious oth , or dye vnder their handes . No baile , maineprise , help , benefite , or redresse by lawe , by the Queenes Royal writtes or Courtes allowed to any , that are committed by the leaste of this hellish Anarchie . Whose lawlesse and insolent dealinges , oppressions , iniuries , violence , may not be caled in question or examined by anie ciuile Magistrates or Courtes . All which they patronize by her Maties. high or especiall Commission vnto them , Although her Matie. suffreth her Roial Prerogatiue to be handled & considered of in some of these ciuile Courtes : yea & graunteth to all her free borne subiectes the benefite & free vse of her Highnes lawes euen in anie cases or causes betwixt her Highnes and them according to the great Charter in the Magna Charta , whervnto her Matie. is sworne . which Charter also these lawlesse Prelates most presumptuouslie and tyrannously violate & breake vnder colour of her Maties. Commission : thus setting her Maties Commission against her Maties. Prerogatiue & Courtes Royal , against that great Charter of the land , against all her Highnes lawes , yea & against al the lawes of God & the Testament & Kingdome of Christ . But to say as it is , their procedinges are both against ther commission , ( if they might be dulie examined & conferred thervnto , ) and against her Maties. meaning . Whose milde , preceable , & iust gouernment in al causes that procead from her self , assure vs , that She would neuer wittingly graunt such a commission as shoulde be so preiudicial to her owne Crowne & Royal dignitie , to the estate , of the Church and of the whole common wealth , as this wherby these Prelates beare themselues & their vngodly procedings , is . That power graunted vnto her Matie. by Parliament , to appoinct & aucthorize whom she shal thinck meet to execute vnder her al maner iurisdictions , priuiledges , and preeminences concerning ecclesiastical causes to her belonging , is , as also al other her Princely power & aucthoritie alwaies to be vnderstood in the Lord , so far as shal be found consonant to his word . For neither is there giuen neither may or wil her Matie take or exercise any furder or other power then the Lord her God giueth her . In whom Kinges reigne , of whom their power is diriued and holden , by whom yt is circumscribed and limited , to whom they shal as anie other persons , accompt .

If then these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie , these romish Courtes and their popish procedinges in the same , be not fownde to be of God , to haue anie warrant in his word , or to belong to the ministrie & gouernment of Christes Church , then can no commission or humane aucthoritie whatsoeuer make them lawfull , impose , or enioyne them vpon the Church . Neither ought anie Christian to obey them at the Commandment of any mortal man . Men must alwaies be obeyed in the Lord . Act. 4. 19 Vnto whom when or wherein they be fownd contrarie or opposite , there must God rather then men , be obeyed . His indignation that can cast both body & soule into hel fire , Mat. 10. 28 is more to be feared than theirs , that can but touch the body only . To obey Gods commaundements , and to refrayne from al thinges that are fownd contrary to the same , is no disobedience to Princes , neither to withdrawe or derogate from their sacred power , as this malignant Clergie would persuade . But they rather , that encroch vpon & openly impugne the Princes royal prerogatiue ; that so highly abuse their Prince , and that trust she committeth vnto them ; that break & violate al the publicke lawes & charters of the lande ; that vsurpe the ciuile sword , aucthority , and iurisdiction , which are vtterly prohibited them by God ; that vsurpe place aboue al in aucthoritie vnder her Matie. whoesoeuer , to whom by the lawe of God they ought to be subiect ; that wil not submit their lawes , doings , & persons to any ciuile tryal at the Princes royal iudgment seates , but rather seek to withdrawe some of the most high and chief causes from her royall Courts and iudgment Seates into their owne Courtes ; that vsurpe the proper peculiar place , titles , preuileges , power of Christ himself , exercising absolute aucthoritie ouer al Churches , doctrines , causes , persons , to bring in or cast out , erect or abrogate , what lawes , ordinances , ministrie , ministration , gouernment they lust without controlement ; that wil not submit their publick ecclesiastical decrees & procedings , nor yet their priuate liues and conuersation to the tryall and censure of Christ in his Churche by the worde of God ; that make such barbarous hauocke , mis-rule , and confusion both in Churche and common wealth ; that seduce and deceiue their Soueraigne Prince , their Nobles , Maiestrates , and the whole land , leading them in the wayes of death & destruction , tourning them out of the straight waies of life & peace ; that with their vtmost endeuour and skil oppose against the Testament & kingdome of Christ ; that molest , spoile , and persecute in al hostile maner the Lords most faithful seruantes her Matis. most loyall & true hearted Subiects , for refrayning from their idolatries and enormities so contrarie to the gospel of Christ , which flowe from their antichristian gouernment and ministrie ; that nourish , fauour , and support the Lordes & her Matis. pernitious knowen enimies the Papistes , those idolators , those conspirators and traytors , who they say are not such enimies to their pontifical estate and regiment as these faithfull christians are ; that are of nothing so iealouse , vigilant , and careful , not euen of their Soueraigne Princes life , or of the peace & prosperitie of the whole land , as of their owne vsurped ruynous kingedome , lest the light of the Gospel should break forth , and discouer their apostaticall throne , and antichristian procedings ; And therfore with al their might and may ne they striue to suppresse this light , and to oppresse all such as in anie sinceritie and good conscience professe and practize the Gospel , tollerating & chearishing rather anie mischief , anie vile flagitious and dissolute persons , as by daylie experience is seene . So that by these markes and fruicts let the Christian or but indifferent reader iudge , Whether these Prelates and their antichristian Hierarchie be to be held troublers of the Church and state , abridgers of the Princes power , vsurpers of publick aucthoritie without lawful caling like Corath , Dathan , & Abyram , Or wee , as this accuser , this trompe of Sathan , ( to bleamish our holie profession & glorious suffringes ) shameth not to giue out of vs . Although they all hitherto haue not , neither shal euer be able ( in the confidence of Gods grace , and of a cleare conscience wee affirme yt ) iustlie to detect , or so much as to suspect vs of anie such crime , ● Pet. 2. endeuoure , or intent . We reuerence and are subiect to euerie humane creature for the Lorde , whether vnto the Kinge as hauing aucthoritie ouer all , or vnto rulers as sent by him , for the reuenge of euil doers , or for the praise of them that doe well , That according to the wil of God , by doing wel , we might put to silence the ignorance of vnwise men . Yet hold wee not the offices , Courtes , and iurisdiction of these Prelates and their Hierarchie within the compasse of this Commandement , or to be the ordinance of God ; But finde them that verie throne of Sathan , that Anarchie of Antichrist opposite to the kingdome and Testament of CHRIST , most pestilent & pernitious both to the Church and common Wealthe . And therfore may not by Princes be suffred in Churches or common Wealth , muchlesse by them be established ouer the Church and common Wealth , Reuel. 17. without giuing their sacred power to the Beast . Neither may anie faithfull Christian be brought in subiection to this their antichristian power & yoke , Reuel. 13. 15 without bowing downe and worshipping the Beast .

To discusse or perticulate the seuerall & innumerable errors , faultes , abuses , corruptions , enormities , in the cannons , constitutions , customes , procedings of the seuerall Courtes that belong to these Prelates antichristian regiment , I am not ( as I haue said ) able , neither were yt in this place expedient . By this which hath bene here generally said of them , their Courtes , and proceedinges , appeareth , how contrarie they are to that gouernment , and to those ordinances which CHRIST hath established and set ouer his Church for euer . CHRISTS Scepter is an euerlasting Scepter , a Scepter of righteousnes . He hath set downe a most perfect & absolute gouernment to his Church . He hath perticularly and exactly prescribed what officers , lawes & ordinances he requireth in his Church . He cannot be separate from his owne gouernment . He ruleth not his Church by anie other officers or lawes , then by his owne which he hath instituted . These godlesse Prelates then , that appoinct other officers and lawes vnto him & ouer his Church , wrest not only the Scepter , but the Kingdome out of Christes handes . And al such as stand vnder the antichristia gouernment of these presumptuous idol shepheardes , Zech. 11. stand not vnder Christes staffe , amenitie , vnder his Scepter of grace , as the sheepe of his fould within his couenant & protection ; but as the sheepe of destruction vnder his yron rodd , Psal. 2. wherwith they shal be broken as a Potters vessel . Here is our controuersie touching this fourth principal transgression , fully decided & determined by Gods owne mouth ; That all which stand vnder anie false ecclesiasticall gouernment , stand not within the Couenant , but vnder the wrath of God . All the mitigations then , reasons , and delusions of the false Prophets , shal neuer be able to make voide , tourne away , or diminish these iudgments , otherwise then by their vnfaigned repentance & speedie conuertion from their euil wayes .

HITHER TO hath Mr. Gif . brought vs not one reason or place of scripture to prooue the present gouernment of these Prelates and their hierarchie , to be that heauenly gouernment which CHRIST hath instituted in his Church , but hath grieuouslie peruerted manie scriptures to prooue that the Church might stand vnder some antichristian yoke , although we in our first writing in this 4 PRINRIPAL TRANGRESSION blamed yt , as false and antichristian , In our second shewed yt to be such in the Officers , Courtes , Cannons , procedings . Now at length for a clusiue reason to prooue and determine all the poyncts at once ; and to shut vp his booke , he hath hatched & brought vs foorth this worthie reason to rest vpon . If the execution of discipline by Bishops be the yoke of Antichrist , and if all the Churches which doe stand vnder the same doe worship the Beast and be not christians , it must needes follow that such as did euer execute this power , were Antichristes , and no children of GOD at that time or before thei repented . But by your owne confession manie of them died blessed Martyres . I conclude therfore , That the Brownistes cannot but with heresies and most heinous iniurie & inordinate dealing condemne a Church as quite diuourced & separate from CHRIST , for such corruptions & imperfections in Gods worship as be not fundamentall , nor destroy the substance : for that wicked men come with the godly to the publick exercises of religion : for some wantes in calling & ordaining Ministers , and in ecclesiastical discipline .

BElike Mr. GIF . is hard driuen when this old popish reason alreadie by vs answeared , and now by him not ouer wel repayred , is fayne to become his cheif corner stone to approue this Church in all these chardges , and the only reason he can bring for the Hierarchie & regiment of the Church of England . By this reason his holie Father the POPE was wonte to defend his triple Crowne & apostaticall Chaire . Because in the same haue sit manie godly Bishops & blessed-Martyres &c : so that if the office , power , and dignitie of his Popedome be antichristian , then must all these godly learned men that haue executed the same needes be Antichrists , and not true members of CHRIST , vntill they repent : But they neuer were founde to haue repented these thinges , yet are confessed by al that knewe them in that age to be learned & godly : Therfore Mr. G. and all this horned Cleargie and Lordly hierarchie of England , cannot without schisme reuoult from , without heresie pronownce , this holie Sea & office antichristian &c. Let Mr. G. now he seeth the fordge & issue , bind or loose , followe or leaue this argument , at his owne pleasure & perill . If he suppose to escape by shewing discrepance betwixt these godly predecessors & vngodly successors in manie circumstances and vertues : And so thinck this reason wil not presse him half so sore as it doth vs : yet let him consider ( though I will not be the POPES aduocate ) that they here reason of the same office , and not of the same circumstances , and that these godly predecessors executed the self same office with these their bad successors . Yea so might th' example be put , as yt should be without anie great difference in circumstance also . And as to the difference betwixt the persons of the one and of the other , ( if that may be a solution to this argument ) we shall not greatly need to feare , finding this viperous generation , these idle , proude , wordlie , fleshlie , persecuting , blasphemous Prelates , nothing so like these their godly predecessors these Martyres , in laboures , humilitie , bowntie , spiritual & holie conuersation , faith , patience , loue of the truth , of the Sainctes of CHRIST &c , as they are in that which is euill in these antichristian titles , offices , Courtes , iurisdiction , reuenues , pompe &c. Which , ( as we before said vnto you ) so say we againe , that no men or Angels can iustifie where Gods worde condemneth , though all the Martyres in the worlde should dye in and for them . We may not be leed or drawen by the examples & persons of men ( how good soeuer ) from one iote of Gods reueiled truth . The best men we see doe erre and sinne , there neuer was or shal be anie man , that erreth and sinneth not in manie thinges . But should we because good men haue donne euill and erred , therfore iustifie sinne and error ? That were high presumption greiuouslie to tempt God , and to abuse the holie Scriptures , which recorde not mens faultes to that end . What sinne or error might not so by th' example of some good man or Church be iustified ? yet these are Mr. GIFF. his best reasons for his Church , ministrie &c. and here his only reason , to approue the gouernment of these Bishops and hierarchie .

But now as we here iustifie & allowe not any sinne by the examples & persons of the godly ; so condemne we not these godly mens persons for sinne & error , vntil obstinacie be ioyned thervnto , which Mr. GIFF. cannot shew in these holie Martyres . And therfore we denie the consequent of his Maior or first Proposition ; That because the office & iurisdiction they executed were Antichristian , therfore the men that exercised them were Antichristes , and not children of God . We may vtterly condemne the sinne , and yet not so peremptorily condemne the sinner . It is a sure position that euerie sinne is of the Deuil , yet is there no consequence therof , that euerie one that sinneth is of the Deuil . we see no such necessitie as Mr. G. would persuade of that matter . The godly may sinne of ignorance , of negligence , of fraylety , yet not thervpon vntill obstinacie be added vnto sinne , cease to be christians . These godly Martyres so lately escaped out of that smokie fornace of the popish Church , could not so clearely discerne , and sodenly enter into the heauenly & beautiful order of a true established Church . It is more than one dayes worcke , to gather , to plante and establish a Church aright , much more so manie thowsand seuerall Churches as are supposed in this land . It can be no wonder that those godly men being so vnexpert and vnexercised in his heauenly worcke , neuer hauing liued in , seene , or hearde of any orderly communion of Sainctes , anie true established Church vpon earth of so many hundreth yeeres , euer since the general defection vnder Antichrist so much foretold of in the Scriptures , no maruaile I say , if they erred in setting vp the frame . But what then ? should we therfore iustifie or persist in their errors ? especially should we reiect the true paterne of CHRISTS Testament which reproueth our workes , and sheweth vs a better course ? should we not suffer our worckes to burne , after the maner of these deceitful workmen of these tymes ? God forbid . For then should we receaue their reward & perish with our worckes .

Now to the second proposition of this argument we haue alreadie expressed our minde concerning the suffringes , faith , and death of these Martyres . We finde them obstinatly to haue resisted no part of Gods worde or truth he gaue them sight of at anie tyme , but to haue bene verie faithfull & constant euen vnto bandes & death in that truth they were come vnto . Furder we doubt not but they truly repented them of al their sinnes knowen , and faithfully laid hold of Gods mercie in Christ Iesus for al their secrete & vnknowen sinnes . Gods grace we are assured is so much greater then all our sinnes , as the sea is greater then one dropp of water . Therefore we doubt not of their happie and blessed estate ; all their sinnes & these false offices & ministrie , which they executed in their ignorance amongst the rest , being forgiue them . Th' example then & errors of these Martyres will not approue the antichristian offices & gouernment of these Prelates , nor yet iustifie the publick worship , ministrie , confusion , sacriledge of the Church of England .

Mvchlesse wil these two lame propositions of Mr. G. his final argument , beare vpp his forged conclusion . where he concludeth the Brownistes hereticks &c , Because they condemne a Church as quite deuorced & separate from Christ , For such imperfections & corruptions in Gods worship , as are not fundamental , nor destroy the substance ; For that wicked men come with the godly to the publicke exercises of religion ; For some wantes in calling & ordayning Ministers ; And for some wantes in ecclesiastical discipline . If Mr. GIF . had taken the wise mans councel , he should not haue answered a matter before he vnderstood it , much-lesse would he ( if he had bene ledd by the spirit of God ) haue blasphemed the truth or condemned the innocent without cause . But as he began his booke without councel , continued it without grace , and ended it without truth ; so hath he herebie but purchased to himself shame , and brought vpon his owne head the iudgments due to an accuser , a blasphemer , a false witnesse and iudge . What opinion the Brownistes hold of the Church of England , their worship , people , ministrie , gouernment , we neither knowe nor regard , neither is there cause whie we should be chardged or condemned for their errors & faultes . For which themselues , and this Church of ENGLAND that receiueth and nourisheth all sectories , hereticks , wicked and abhominable persons whatsoeuer , shall accompt . For vs , whom it pleaseth Mr. G. to terme Brownistes , and whome he endeuoreth to confute in this treatise , we neuer condemned any true Church for anie fault whatsoeuer , knowing that where true faith is , there is repentance , where true faith and repentance are , there is remission of all sinnes . Far be it from vs to condemne anie whom CHRIST iustifieth . 1. And for the Church of ENGLAND we neither did or doe condemne yt , ( as this accuser suggesteth ) for such imperfections and corruptions in their worship as be not fundamentall or destroy the substance : but we condemned the publick worship of their Church of ENGLAND presently inioyned , receiued and vsed , as deuised by men , popish , superstitious , idolatrous , abhominable , not such as God commandeth , requireth , or accepteth , and therfore not such as anie faithfull christian may offer vp vnto God , be compelled , or consent vnto . This wee shewed in the first PRINCIPALL TRANSGRESSION : this we haue proued in the first part of this treatise . 2. Secondly wee condemne not the Church of England as separate from CHRIST , for that wicked men come with the godly to the publick exercises of religion , But rather as neuer rightly gathered to CHRIST , for that al the prophane and wicked ar receiued and retayned as members of their Churche . Wee gladlie acknowledge that CHRIST came a light into the world , to offer saluation vnto all men , to haue built his Church vpon an hil , there to be lifted vp by the preaching of the word as a standard to al people and passengers , there to haue made a feast to al nations , and thither to inuite them . Neither were we euer so enuious of the saluation of others , or of the glorie of God , ( as hauing founde mercie , and being entred our selues ) to shut the doore or stop the fountaine of Gods grace against others : yea God is witnesse with what heartie desire we long after them all , that they , euen our greatest persecutors , might be partakers of the same saluation , ioy , comfort , & happines with vs : And howe wee intermit not , much-lesse exclude , anie meanes thervnto that God putteth in our power ( though it were with the hazarde of our owne lyues ) to bring them of the water of the wel at Bethelem . But now though we affirme that al the vnbelieuing & prophane not onlie may , but ought to resort to the publick exercises of religion in the Church , as the most excellent meanes to call them to the faith ; yet do we not therfore belieue or affirme , that the prophane or vnbelieuing may be receiued or admitted as members of the Church , before they haue made voluntarie publick profession of their owne faith and obedience ; Or being entered by such profession , be permitted longer to stand or remayne of the Church , then they contynue orderlie to walke in the same faith and obedience . And therfore we blamed these parish assemblies of England , as consisting of a confuse multitude of al sortes of prophane and wicked people in differentlie : where they are al receiued , nourished , and retayned , as members of the Church , though they were neuer called & gathered by the power of the worde , entered & receiued by the profession of their owne faith , neither walke orderlie in the faith , or in anie duties either publick or priuate : And so are al guiltie of most high sacriledge & prophanation of the holy things of God ; No such assemblie or communion of Sainctes , as Christes faithful seruantes ought to repaire or ioyne vnto . This wee shewed in the second PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION . This we haue lardgly proued in the second part of this treatise . 3. Thirdly we condemne not the Church of England for some wantes in calling and ordayning Ministers ; But for hauing , maintayning , and retayning a false and antichristian ministrie imposed vpon them , with a false & antichristian calling & ordination euen the self same that the Pope vsed & left in this Realme ; which false offices and ministrie cannot be ioyned vnto , or exercised in the true Church of CHRIST . This wee shewed in the thirde PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION , this we proued in the third part of this treatise . And therfore with an euil and corrupt conscience hath Mr. G. sought to hide this transgression vnder some wantes in the calling and ordaining Ministers , and thus boldlie and falselie thervpon to accuse vs . Wee knowe there may be faultes either of ignorance or negligence in the calling ordination &c , yet these not to disanul the action , much-lesse the Couenant so longe as they are not obstinatlie held and persisted in . But our assertion and controuersie here is not of a faultie ministrie , caling , ordination &c , but of a false ministrie , caling , ordination &c , which we haue proued theirs to be , and that no such belongeth vnto , may be imposed , receiued , or retayned in the Church of CHRIST . 4. Fourthly in like maner wee reason not of some wantes in the gouernment and order of their Church , but of a false and antichristian gouernment set ouer the Church . Neither condemne we the Church of ENGLAND for some faultes in a true ecclesiasticall gouernment , but for hauing and standing vnder a false and antichristian gouernment , euen the self same Hierarchie , Officers , Courtes , Cannons , Customes , Priuileges , Proceedings , that the Pope vsed and left . This wee also haue shewed in the 4 TRANSGRESSION , and haue nowe in this fourth parte , and through this booke , fullie proued their present ecclesiastical gouernment to be . To which fower principall transgressions a willfull obstinacie , an open reiecting & resisting the truth & al reprofe , a violent and most hostile persecution of all such as either refraine , speake against , or reproue their communion , ministrie , worship , gouernment , being ioyned , We may by all these reasons , seuerally , and haue by them altogether , proued these Parrish assemblies in this estate not to be the true established Churches of Christ , to which the faithful seruants of Christ ought to resort and ioyne .

So then all men maie see how falsly this accuser hath sclandered vs , and howe far he hath strayed from the present matters and transgressions in question , both through his whole booke , and in this conclusion of his booke , where he chardgeth , pronownceth , and condemneth vs as heretickes &c , for condemning a Church for some light imperfections in their worship , wantes in their discipline &c : wheras we for their idolatrie , confusion , sacrilege , false and antichristian ministrie , and gouernment , obstinacie in all these sinnes , hatred of the truth , and persecution of CHRISTES seruants , haue proued the Church of ENGLAND not to be the true , but the malignant Church . Therfore wee condemne no true Church as he accuseth , neither for such causes as he surmiseth . Nor yet do wee , but rather God himself , condemne them . Wee but discouer their sinnes , and shew them their estate by the worde of God , refrayning and witnessing against their abhominations , as we are commanded by that voyce from heauen . Go out of her my people , 〈◊〉 . 18. that ye communicate not in her sinnes , and that ye receiue not of her plagues &c.

In the same loue , knowing this terror and irreuo●able decree of the Lorde against the false Church and all her children , wee most earnestly exhorte and instantlie beseech , euen so manie , to whom the truth of the Lorde and their owne saluation is deare , to flee out of the middest of her , 2 Cor. 6. 17. 18. and to saue themselues from this peruerse generation , and to deliuer euerie man his soule from the fierce wrath of the Lord , Acts. 2. 40. according to the councel of the Prophets and Apostles of God . Iere. 50. & . 51. Chap. And not to be stayed by the vayne persuasions , Zach. 2. 7 titles , and promises of these false Prophets , of thinges present , as of the Church , worde , ministrie , Sacraments &c , or deluded by their vayne hope of things to come , as reformation , saluation &c , or deterred with their vayne threates of schisme , heresies , daunger , persecusion &c , from obeying the voyce of God , whilest he yet speaketh and calleth vnto you , and offreth grace , lest you despise the acceptable tyme of the Lorde , the day of his saluation , and he sweare in his wrath that you shal not enter into his rest for your disobedience , and then hereafter your flight be in the wynter or on the Sabboth , when the wrath of God is come vpon you , and there be no meanes or way to escape . For the vaine boastings of these Prophetts of things present , and promises of things to come , reade Reuel . 18. where the Holie Ghost sheweth their Church to become the habitation of Diuells , the prison of euerie vncleane spirit , the cage of euerie vncleane and hatefull birde , howsoeuer she boast her self a Queene ; to be no Widowe , to see , no sorrowe . For this in one day shal her plagues come , death , and sorrowe , and famine , and she shal be burnte in fire , because the God that condemneth her is a mighty Lorde . You there reade how neither her shipmasters , marchantmen , Princes , or multitudes , shal be able to reserue her wares , or preserue her from the burning of this heauenly fire ; No lamentation can ease or diminish her sorrowe and grief : No balme can cure her woundes , no arte reforme or repaire her breaches , nor arme or power shield her from the weight of that great milstone that shall presse her and all her children to the deapth of hell , being lifted vp ouer her by that mightie Angel . The Lord hath pronownced & his decree is irreuocable . The voyce of his heauenlie harpers & musitions , the psalmes & spiritual songs & laudes of his Saincts , shal neuer be heard in her anie more : the skil and art of any heauenlie artificer , worckman , or builder , shall neuer be found in her any more : the voyce of the milstone that grindeth foode for the soule , shal neuer be heard in her any more : the light of a candle , muchlesse the burning lamps of Gods spirit , shal neuer shine in her any more to keepe out darcknes : the heauenlie and comfortable voice of the Bridegome , and of the Bride ; of CHRIST speaking to his Church in instruction , exhortation , comfort , of CHRISTES Church speaking to him in prayers , prayses &c , shall neuer be heard in her anie more . Let her Ship-masters then , her Mariners , Marchantmen , Enchanters , and false Prophets vtter and retayle her wares , deck and adorne her with the skarlet , purple , gold , siluer , iewels , and ornaments of the true Tabernacle , Let them in her offer vpp their sacrifices , their beastes , sheepe , meale , wyne , oyle , their odors , oyntements , and franckencense , Let them dawbe and vndershore her , builde , and reforme her , vntil the storme of the Lordes wrath breake foorth , Ezech. 13. the morning wherof al these Diuines shal not foresee , Esay . 47. much-lesse eschue or withstand the terror therof , Prou 1. 24 &c. vntil the wall and the dawbers be no more . But let the wise that are warned and see the euill , feare and depart from the same , so shall they preserue their owne soules as a praye : And the Lorde shall bring them amongst his redeemed to Sion with praise , and euerlasting ioy shal be vpon their heades , they shall obtaine ioy and gladnes , and sorrowe and mourning shal flee away .

FINIS .

AS WE shewed in these 4. PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSIONS , in the worship , communion , ministri & gouernment of the Church of ENGLAND , the causes of our separation from their publick assemblies in this estate ; So at their instance we in like maner set downe vnto them our purpose & intent , what we now indeuored & meant to doe , in certaine breife Articles . Of those transgressions & chardges , how this Champion hath defended & cleared their Church , by that which hath bene written now on both sides may appeare . The articles of themselues are so iust and holie , as no Diuel can impugne or denie ▪ no man of religion , conscience , or shame gaynesay or resist anie one of them : yet hath Mr. GIFFARD ( instigated by the spirit of vayne-glorie and envie ) in a singular zeale enterprised to answere and confute them all , as you may see in his first writing . The cauills and vanitie wherof , as also his vniust suspitions , calumniations , reproches against vs thervpon being layd open in our first reply vnto him , so far hath he bene from desisting to sporne against the prikes , to sclander , accuse , and rayle on vs , or to take a more sober and christian course for the discussing and deciding these controuersies betwixt him and vs , as he hath burst forth yet into furder malice and madnes , blaspheming vs in euerie sentence of this his second answere to these our articles with such store of contumelious and odious wordes , as if that corrupt synck of his heart could neuer be emptied , the malice of his minde and venome of his tongue neuer satiate or vttered against vs , euen now as fresh as if he had not rayled enough or all in his writings and booke before . But seing his reproches want both profe and truth , they deserue neither refutation nor repetition . Neither can they preiudize our holie profession , or vs , or anie way iustifie or excuse him before God or man ; but rather add to his feareful accompt before God , and euidently shew vnto all men , by what spirit his heart and pen were guided at the writing of these contumelious answeres . Wherein yet most strange it is , how he could take occasion to ●ade vs with all this vituperie , for propounding these godly articles & holy duties , especially hauing shewed withall such iust causes of our separation from their assemblies . But let vs nowe take a viewe of his reasons wherewith he hath disproued our endeuours in these articles , and see whether they be of as great validitie , as those wherewith he hath approued their assemblies in the transgressions by vs obiected . The articles , answeres , and our former replie I will not here againe insert , referring to the copies aboue .

HIs cauilling & trifling about these wordes [ CHRISTES Kingdome ] in his former answeare to our first Article , Article 1. together with his hypocrisie in seeming to labour for CHRISTES gouernment , were by vs layde open in our replie : as also his vniust surmize , that we should hold that CHRISTES Kingdome could not be in anie , except they had that his outward ecclesiasticall gouernment , was there by vs fullie answered and cleared . He nowe in his second answere as vaynely endeuoreth to cleare himself of his former cauilling and hypocrisie , by denijing the necessarie sense of his former wordes ; and by propounding two newe questions vnto vs instead of answering our two questions vnto him , which we rather expected . Let the indifferent reader iudge whether to all intendement he made not CHRISTES Kingdome only inwarde , and his ecclesiasticall gouernment but an help for the preseruation of his inward kingedome , in the first parte of his former answeare , howsoeuer afterward he vouchsalfed yt to be a part of his Kingedome . Vnto his contumelious blasphemous questions we answere , That when he shall haue dulie conuinced vs of heresies , or schisme , to haue condemned a true ministrie , to haue falslie accused a true Church , then we will confesse our selues to be more then ignorant and rash : till then all these reproches shall but followe his other sinnes into Gods sight to hasten his owne iudgment . Our questions also whilest they remaine vnanswered , ( and as we thinck vnanswerable , ) must still lay open their bad estate and hypocrisie , In that whilest they remaine antichristian Ministers in the false Church , And haue so longe continued vnder Antichristes yoke and ecclesiasticall gouernment , they cannot be said either to haue or sincerelie to labour for CHRISTS ecclesiasticall gouernment , as he and they then pretended . And here by the way I must drawe two dangerous positions , and in the same obserue great contrarietie in Mr. G. vnto himself . First , in that they and he pretended to laboure , and had so longe sued to Parliamentes for CHRISTES gouernment or discipline , they confesse the absence and wante of the same : For a fond thing it were to labour and sue for that which alreadie they haue . Then if they wante and haue not CHRISTES ecclesiasticall gouernment ; and receiue an other ecclesiasticall gouernment ouer their Church and ministrie which is not his , yt must needes be a false and antichristian gouernment : And so they and their whole Church by their owne confession stand vnder Antichristes yoke and gouernment , and haue not CHRIST their King to rule ouer them , except they can shew that CHRIST doth rule in his Church by Antichrists officers and gouernment , which I thinck will be harde to prooue : and then are they and their Church in a bad estate . As also Mr. G. herein contrarie to himself , who erewhile affirmed this present gouernment of these BB s. their hierarchie and Courtes to be the true ecclesiasticall gouernment of Christ . And that they were not antichristian . Furder he hath obserued & reserued one special poyncte in our replie . That the kingdome of God may be in the scattered faithfull , which as yet haue not the ecclesiasticall discipline . This we graunt & neuer denied : although Mr. G. whatsoeuer he now say , then surmized the contrarie of vs , or ells had smale cause so vehemently to haue refuted this opinion . But we are content that yt shall now remaine to his vse .

THe second article of seeking Gods true worship , Article . ● . he granteth that al men ought to approue . Being demanded in our Replie , howe then he continued in idola●rie , a Minister of idollatrie , prophecied in BAAL , and pleaded for BAAL ; Or howe he could approoue our article , and yet condemne vs of schisme and heresie because we forsake their false , deuised , idolatrous worship , and seek to worship God according to his worde . To those he answereth that when we haue proued their worship to be idolatrie , and that they prophecie in BAAL , and pleade for BAAL , then he is content that men take vs for no schismatickes or hereticks . And this I hope we haue in this treatise donne , hauing shewed their worship to be deuised by man , idolatrous , abhominable , their ministrie to be as false , diriued from and exercised vnder their BAALS these Bishops ; And how earnestly Mr. G. hath pleaded for these Baals their throne and all the enormities proceding from the same , these his owne bookes shall testifie . So that I hope we are now cleared with all men , and shal hereafter be spared of him , from the odious accusations of schisme and heresie .

THe . Art. 3. 4 . 3. 4. and 5. Articles ( after Mr. G. his diuision ) tending to one effect , and begetting but the same common difficulties , may together be handled . The chief controuersies about the same are these two . 1. Whether these publicke assemblies of their parishes be antichristian & Babilonish . 2. Then whether the Church consisting but of priuate men , may in this estate erect & establish amongst them such offices & ordinances of CHRIST , as he hath instituted to the ministri & gouernment of his Church . Of the first , both Mr. G. & I haue now lardgly set downe our mindes : so that I leaue yt as fitter for iudgment , then anie furder discussing in this place ; The reasons here repeated . 1. How their Churches are from antient discent within the Couenant . 2. And how their Church in this estate hath begotten and nourished children vnto God , as the Martyres , haue bene alreadie often propounded and vrged by him in his book . I hope by that time he hath wel considered of the heresies , sacrilege , and absurdities of the first , and of the vayne assumption and litle consequence of the second , as they are set downe in our answeres , he shal haue litle cause to vse them so often , or to vrdge them with such confidence & bitterness . For when Mr. G. shal prooue , that a Nation so highly apostatate & fallen from the faith , so deiply plunged into such execrable idolatries , abhominations , & hardnes of heart , as in the papistical corruption , stil continueth in this estate a true established visible church , within the outward Couenant of God , so far as we may & ought to iudge by his worde , them doubtlesse for mie part I wil graunt yt a sounde Maior proposition . And if he shal bring the church of Rome for instance in the Minor , I must then yeild to his argument . Because y● church at Rome was sometimes rightly gathered , established , and within the couenant . Yet euen then I suppose yt wil be harde for him to make the like assured proof , that euer her daughter of England was rightly established into that christian order & within the couenant : But I doubt rather , and by her present estate iudge , Reu. 17. 2. that she was among the children of her Mothers fornications , Deut. 23. 2. and therfore without the Couenant . To the second reason it will also hardly followe , that because some faithful men haue bene called to some generall knowledge of God and of Christ in this estate , and because they in their ignorance cotynued in the same estate , that this should therfore iustifie the outward estate of the Church which the worde of God condemneth , or prooue yt in this estate the true established Church of Christ , when they haue nothing aright according to Christes ordinance , as we haue prooued in this treatise , whether I refer for a more ful answeare of these reasons , hasting to the second poyncte .

Wherein I before shewed how God commandeth al his faithful seruantes ( of what estate or degree soeuer ) to flee out of Babilon the false Church , and being escaped not to stand still , to remember the Lord a far off , to let Ierusalem come into their minde , to goe vp to SION , to seeke out and to repaire vnto the place where God hath put his name . To seek the Church and the kingdome of CHRIST , to take his yoke vpon them , to assemble together in his name , with his promise of direction and protection ; and with his authoritie to establish his offices and ordinances amongst them , giuen by him to the ministrie and gouernment of his Church vnto the worldes end , there to leade their liues together in all mutuall duties , in his holie order , faith , and feare . Now as we shewed all perticular and priuate men whosoeuer , to be called out of the false Church from confusion , and out of the world from dispersion , vnto the true Church vnto order . So likewise shewed we , that all these faithfull persons whosoeuer , were as yet but priuate men at their first comming out of the false Church and gathering together , none of them being as yet called to anie ecclesiasticall office or function in the Church , yt not being as yet established into order . Wherevpon we concluded , and still of necessitie enforce , That seing God calleth all his seruantes out of confusion , and will not haue them liue in dissipation or disorder , but only in this order which he hath prescribed in his worde ; And hath giuen his Church aucthoritie and commandement , to erect , retaine , and obserue this order vnto the worldes end ; And seeing in this estate the Church now consisteth but of priuate men ; That therfore the faithfull being as yet but priuate men , ought by the commandement of God to assemble & ioyne themselues together in the name & faith of Christ , and in all mutual dueties orderly to proceede according to the rules of the worde , to a holy choice & vse of such offices & ordinances as Christ hath ordayned to the seruice & gouernment of his Church . And sure were not Mr. G. as forgeatful as he is ignorant of the scriptures , he could not but haue seene by the verie phrase the first proposition confirmed by many scriptures ; The second by many prophecies of this general defection ; and if not verified in these present tymes , yet he cannot denie but some former not long sithence . Therefore whilest he fighteth with the conclusion , he but spurneth against the prickes , bewraieth the folly of his owne heart , and no waye auoydeth or defendeth the daunger therebie .

His best answeare to this reason , or rather manie reasons summed vp , is ( as he thinketh ) to tourne it away by two questions , and by manifold contumelies against our poore persons ; or ( to say as yt is ) by inaudible blasphemies against the Church of God : likening the assemblie of the faithful gathered in the name , and ioyned together in the faith of Christ , proceding to th' establishing and exercise of Christes or dinances ; to the rebellious company of Corath , Dathan , & Abyram , to a rowte of mutynous prentices assembled without leaue of their Prince to chuse a Lorde Maior &c. His first question is , That if all were priuate at the first comming out of the false Church , who they were that caled them together ? Or whether their comming together doth make them otherwise then priuate ? We answeare , that for anie thing we can see , or may iudge by the word , they were but priuate men that first caled them out of the false Church , and that caused them to assemble together , howsoeuer peraduenture indued with more excellent giftes , and more rare graces then other . Furder , that being thus assembled they ceased not to be priuate men , vntil they were lawfully caled vnto some true ecclesiastical office in and by the Church . Yet al this notwithstanding , the Church in this estate nowe consisting onlie of priuate men , ought to procede to a right choice of Ministers &c , according to the commandement of God . His next stombling-block or question , is ; Who should ordaine these Pastors & Elders . And whether we euer read of any ordained but by Apostles , Euangelistes , Pastors , Teachers , and Gouernours ? And whether that power was not at the first deriued from th' extraordinarie Ministers to the Ordinarie . To this we haue aboue answered , where wee entreated of the ordination of the Ministers of England , and here againe doe answere . That the Church had alwaies the power to chuse and ordaine their owne Ministers , wherevnto yt ought to vse the most fit instruments , whether these Pastors , Teachers , Elders ( if such be to be had ) or ells where they be not to be had to vse the fittest meanes and instrumentes that God exhibiteth . For this power of ordination is not ( as Mr. G. and the vnruly cleargie of these dayes suppose ) deriued from the Apostles & Euangelistes vnto the permanent ministrie of Pastors and Elders , neither belongeth yt by anie peculiar right to their offices and persons segregate from the Church . But yt is giuen by Christ and properlie belongeth vnto the Church , wherevnto their Ministrie and persons also belonge , and are by the Church to be vsed vnto this worck as occasion is administred . And thus ( if a vaile were not laid ouer Mr. G. his heart at the reading of the scriptures ) he might finde that those cheife builders the Apostles & Euangelistes themselues vsed this power , not to take yt from the Church , but therein to assist the Church , As we reade Act. 13. Where the Church being assembled vnto fasting , prayer , and other holy exercises , yt is there said also , that they layde handes vpon the Apostles , and sent them out , though wee doubt not the Church did it by some one or moe of the Prophets or Elders , Act. 14. 26. 27. and vnto the Church at their returne the Apostles declared the successe of their iourney . In which iourney also , the Apostles ordayning or rather helping the Churches to chose and ordaine Elders , Act. 14. 23. the word cheirotonesantes lifting vp handes , whereby the whole action of chusing & ordeyning is expressed , doth clearly giue the propertie and right therof vnto the Churches , and not vnto the Apostles only . who , as also the Euangelistes , did but instruct , direct , help , and assist the Church herein , and not pluck away this power from the Churches . Likewise the rules for the choice and ordination of Ministers in the Epistles to Timothie & Titus , and other places of the scripture , as Rom. 12. 1 Cor. 12. Eph. 4. are not perticularly directed or committed to the consistorie of Elders , as they cal yt , sequestred & withdrawen from the Church , but vnto the Church consisting of al the members . which is therevnto to vse ( as in all other publicke & waighty causes ) such meet & fit instruments as the Lorde affordeth and apoyncteth . Neither is this action of approbation , and acception , or ordination of Ministers so seuered or disioyned from the election as these men dreame : Or so tyed to the office or persons of the Elders , as the Church might either not ordeyne , or not ordeyne without Elders . And aswel might the Elders take into their hands the elections , excommunications &c , of the Church , as the ordination in this maner ; Againe if the ordination were thus of necessitie tyed to the handes & office of Elders , how then should the Church after this general defection & corruption vnder Antichrist ( where al the starres were fallen to the earth , Reu. 6. 12. 13. 14. and the whole shape of the heauen departed away as a booke wrapped vp , a new & strange ministry brought out of the bottomlesse pit with him , as wee reade ) euer recouer or haue anie true ▪ Reu. 9. Ministrie againe in this world ? where should they haue true Elders to ordaine their Ministers ? In the false and papisticall Church there can be no true Elders or Ministers of Christ The true members of Christ can not be made the members of that Beaste , the members of that Harlot . The true Ministers of Christ cannot belong vnto , neither can administer in the false Church , but only belonge vnto and administer in the true stablished Church of Christ . But now in the tyme of this general apostasie and papistical corruption Mr. G. cannot shewe anie where anie true visible established Church vpon earth , with the true ministrie , gouernment , worship , sacraments , ordinances of Christ , howsoeuer in a singular conceipt of his owne , he haue pleaded the Church of Rome , and her daughters in their deipest apostasie , to be in the true Church , they and al theirs within the Couenant from antient discent , to haue the true seale therof , namelie baptisme , there giuen vnto them all . Yet here not being to be founde anie true christian Ministers or Elders , who shal now ordaine their Ministers , at their first comming out of popery & departing from the Romish Church ? For nowe we wil transfer the case from our selues ( who are so odious in Mr. G. his eyes as no good thing wil be allowed in or to vs ) vnto themselues .

When they first came out of poperie were they then Corah his companie , an assembly of mutinous prentices ? Were they not all priuate men ? Or which of them was otherwise ? Ordinary or permanent Ministers they could not be : because there was no true visible established Church vpon earth , and for a thowsand reasons that might be drawen from the forgery of their office , administration &c , in the popish Church . Extraordinarie Ministers , Apostles , or Euangelistes the could not be , because ( as we haue aboue proued ) they were ceased after the foundation was once laide , and the work rightly erect according to the true paterne . Neither finde we to any one established Church , the offices of Apostles or Euangelistes perticularly giuen , belonging , or erected in anie of them as a ministri of contynuance . Neither had these men the caling due to Apostles & Euangelistes . Nor yet did they chalendge or execute anie such office , as appeareth by their writings and profession , where they would not haue bene ashamed of the ministry God had caled them vnto to haue published themselues such as they were . But if so be they had donne this , yet their practize being so discrepant from the Apostolike paterne & worke of the former Euangelistes , we might not at any hand accept them for such . Thus then at their first comming out of the false . Church , and gathering together , they were but priuate men . What then , were they hereticks & schismaticks for departing out of the false church ? were they conuenticlers , sectories &c , for assembling together ? were they vsurpers and intruders without caling , mutiners , rebels against Princes , and abridgers of their power , and withdrawers from their obedience & allegeance for dissuading the people from the false Church , the yoke of Antichrist & al their detestable idolatrys and enormities , for caling them to the communion of Sainctes , to procede to the choice of Ministers , and to the practize of Christes Testament as the Lorde shoulde reueale vnto them ? Al this they did , or at the least professed & endeuored to doe . Yet I hope Mr. G. that so buildeth their Tombes and garnisheth their sepulches , wil not thus say of them , howsoeuer he rayle on vs that doe and protest to doe no whit more . If they were faithful Christians , such are we : holding the same commune faith with them & al Sainctes , not ( as yet ) truly chardged , or duly conuinced of any one error contrary to the faith . They left the false Church , so do we . They assembled & ioyned together in the faith of Christ , so do we , or at the least would doe . They were but priuate men , and so are we . They herein are not iudged to haue offended God or their Prince , and why should wee for the same ? They herein did more , then to come out of Babilon , They did more then sweepe or repaire the house , for they proceeded to the choice & ordination of Mi●●sters , to the building of the house &c , Or ells Mr. G. by his owne reasons must condemne them , the Church , and al the ministrie of the land , yea of all Europe , as wel as vs .

IF he alleadge that though they left their popish administration , and to administer in the popish Church , yet they left not that ministerie they there had ; Wee answere ( as we haue answered ) that they receiued no better ministrie in the false Church , then the false Church could & did giue them ; neither could they bring anie better out , than they there receiued . But the true ministerie belongeth not to the false Church , neither can the false Church ordaine true Ministers . Againe whoseuer leaueth the publick administration of his Ministrie , forsaketh his Ministrie : But they left the publick administration of their ministrie . The like argument may be drawen for leauing the Church whereof they were Ministers . And yet to stop his mouth farder , if the Martyres and first witnesses had a true ministrie , such also haue sondrie of vs whom he termeth Brownistes &c , yea by so much a better , as he holdeth the ministrie of the Churche of England better then the ministrie of the Church of Rome . Yea if Mr. G. his owne ministrie be good , such & the same haue diuers of vs had , and are as yet vndisgraded , otherwise then by vnfaigned repentance of so detestable a Ministrie . So that if they lost not their ministrie by forsaking the Churche they receaued it of , and exercised it in ; why shoulde Mr. G. be so seuere to iudge others , that may make the same plea ? If they saye they left not the Church of Rome but the corruptions therof , what should let vs to alleadge the same nowe against them , if we would stand vpon those shiftes & doublings , But we vse no such coloured excuses , neither relye vpon mens persons and doinges . wee haue the expresse commandement of God for our warrant of al those thinges we doe , or refuse to doe , and stand to make proofe & tryal therof by the same word , gladly submitting our selues , al our actions and whole faith vnto this tryal . Although also we haue and vse th' examples and practize of these faithful , that first came out of the popish Churche , and enterprised the erection and practize of Christes Ministrie & ordinances amongst themselues , according to that measure of knowledge God gaue them . Whose errors though wee shunne ( neither will mainetayne our owne when they shal be shewed vs , cleauing onlie to the true paterne of Gods word ) yet make we their president a bulwark for vs against these cauilling enimies ; Who must , for doing these thinges either condemne them , and so themselues , and their whole Church and doings with them , Or ells with no shame or iustice condemne vs of heresie , schisme , sectes , presumption , intrusion , rebellion &c , for doing the self same thinges they did , or at the least professed to doe ; yea for doing them better & nearer the true paterne then they did . If they in this doing neither intruded without caling , nor presumed aboue their caling , Why are we iudged for this doing to doe both ? yea for this saying , to haue put an halter about our neckes ? Doth not this our hange-man & executioner ( that with ioye speaketh of the chaynes and fetters , that these bloodie Bishopps lay vpon the faithful seruantes of Christ , for leauing their antichristian yoke and seking Christs heauenlie gouernment ) put with the same hande , and trise the halter about these godlie Martyres neckes , yea about his owne and his Lorde Bishops neckes , and al the Ministers neckes of the land ? that haue no other defence for their vngodly ministry and doings , then the erroneous practize of these godly Martyres , who ( as hath bene proued ) were but priuate men at their first comming out of popery & erection of these Churches , as we now be ? Mr. GIFF. had not best shew vs manie of these trickes of legier du main , lest he ensnarrle & choke himself with the same halter he would cast about our neckes , and kil himself & his whole Church with that sharpe weapon wherwith he would kill vs at once in his furious moode . For sure if it be vnlawful for priuate men to assemble , and in this estate to proceede to the election & ordination of Ministers , then by the same lawe was it vnlawful for them so to doe . Then are all these Bishops & Ministers priuate men , vsurpers ; no more true Ministers , then such a one as the mutinous prentices should make Maior , were a true Maior . Yea let me goe furder , if the Church consisting of priuate men , may not in this estate erect and ordaine Christes true ministrie amongst them , then is there no true ministri vpon earth , neither euer can be , vntil God raise vp new Apostles and Euangelistes , and buildeth a new Church vpon a new foundation , which shal be when we haue a newe Christ . And then Mr. G. shal haue his dreame . For he saith that when God will haue his worke donne , he will raise vp extraordinarie workemen thervnto . But where read Mr. G. this position , if not amongst the Anabaptistes ? Sure he neuer founde it in the new Testament , where we haue the minde of Christ , a perfect foundation , an accompleat ministrie , Deut. 30. 11 12. 13. 14. vntil Christes comming . So that we neede not to say in our heartes , who shall ascend vp to heauen for vs , or descend from heauen vnto vs , Rom. 10. 6. 7. 8. or goe ouer the sea for vs to bring or teach vs the Commandement of our God , when the worde is so neare vs euen in our mouthes and in our heartes for to doe yt . Therfore when Mr. G. shall make his proofe of this assertion , And shew his warrant and promise that God will now raise vp to his Church extraordinarie worckmen , and that til then no priuate men ought to proceede to the choice and ordination of Ministers , but to tarye and expect this promise of the Lorde : Then surelie we will acknowledge him no false Prophet , no Anabaptisticall dreamer , and that we haue presumed ouer far vpon the Lordes authoritie and commandement giuen to his Church vnto the worldes end , to chuse and ordaine his ministerie , and to practize amongst them whatsoeuer he hath commanded . But nowe because this were to bring Christ from aboue , and againe from the deade , because also we haue Gods direct commandement to goe out of the false Church ; being come out , to assemble and ioyne together ; and being so ioyned , to proceede to the erection of his ministrie and practize of his ordinances , and haue his aucthoritie & promise of blessing to these proceedings , because we haue the practize of Christes Apostles in planting the primatiue Churches , and now latelie th' examples of such as endeuored to build this Church they liue in , we dare not by any vayne hope or threates of this false Prophet be drawen to neglect so great saluation , to continue either in apostasie or disorder , and to transgresse or neglect the Lordes commaundement .

THe next obiection against vs is drawen from an especiall obseruation in our first Article , where we confessed the vniversal Church and kingdome of CHRIST to extend to all such as by true faith apprehend and confesse CHRIST IESVS , howsoeuer they be skattered , and wheresoeuer dispersed vpon the face of the whole earth . Hence Mr. GIFF. concludeth , that seing the faithfull may be in state of grace and haue CHRIST their Kinge , though they liue not vnder that gouernment & order that CHRIST hath established in and to his Church , therfore it is not necessarie for priuate men to set yt vp . Sure this is a weake argument , and not worth half the noting & obseruation he hath made of yt : we must for all this denie yt : and finde no more consequent , then if he had therfore concluded that the communion of Sainctes , the ministrie and ecclesiasticall gouernment of CHRIST are not to be sought of the faithfull , because some faithfull may be saued that liue not in an established church , vizt: such as are in captiuitie , sicknes , age , or in such times & place , as they knowe not where to finde one day of the Sonne of man . Luk. 17. 22. &c. He might aswell conclude , that because God is able & doth saue some in the false Church , Therfore priuate men ought not to forsake the false Church . God is able to saue some in dispertion out of the established Church , Therfore priuate men ought not to seek the established Church .

THe last & greatest matter is , that we runne before the Princes commandement , whose dutie it is to reforme Churches . Priuate men might not so much as sweepe them , much-lesse build them . For this is to erect a state & gouernment , because the power of the Church is both publicke & greate . We haue aboue shewed , that the Church hath Gods commandement & authoritie alwaies , to erect Christes ministri & gouernment amongst them . That the Church in this estate consisteth only of of priuate men , neither are there anie true Ministers anie where to be found vpon the earth : neither any extraordinarie Ministers to be looked for , seing they are long since ceased . Therfore the Church in this estate consisting only of priuate men , ought to erect this ministerie and gouernment : ells should they also cease and neuer be had againe vpon the earth : and so should there neuer be any established Church , ministrie , Sacramentes &c , agayne in this world . yet here must be noted by the way , that Mr. G. runneth too much vpon , and wresteth too far these wordes [ priuate men ] when we speake of the Church consisting only of priuate men . Now vnto his crimination , the Church hauing this commandement & aucthoritie giuen of God vnto the worldes end , we before shewed him that no Prince might take it away , or without great wronge hinder them from the performance hereof . yea that the seruantes of God ought not to be staied from doing the commandements of God , vpon anie restrainte or persecution of any mortall man whosoeuer . For this we alleadged the examples and practize of the Apostles , who then had bene guiltie of the same disobedience & rebellion , if Princes in this busines had bene to be stayed for , or their restrainte had bene a sufficent let . yea that persecution and the crosse of Christ were vtterly abolished , if the Church and faithfull were not to proceede in their dueties , vntill Princes giue leaue . We shewed also , that the obedience and practize of Gods will was no disobedience or prei●dize to the Prince . That we attempted nothing beyonde our calling , neither transgressed in our calling . We medled not with the reformation of anie publick abuse either in the common wealth or in their Church , otherwise , then by prayers vnto God , and godly exhortation . We only according vnto Gods commandement refrained from their idolatrie and other publicke euils , and assembled together in all holy and peaceable maner to worship the Lord our God , and to ioyne our selues together in the faith vnto mutual duties . This we shewed to be the duetie of euerie priuate man that would be saued , to leaue the false Church , and to seeke the true Church . And being thus assembled & ioyned in the faith , we shewed it to be their dutie together to seeke that ministrie and gouernment which Christ hath left vnto his Church , and for the Church to erect the same .

VNto the Apostles proceeding without the licence of Princes he maketh a double answere . One in respect of the persons of the Apostles , that they were furnished with a special commission and authoritie from CHRIST himself to set vp his kingdome : which commission and power the Pastors and Teachers successiuely receiued & deliuered ouer to others , so that priuate men may not haue this power . The other in respect of those Princes in the Apostles tyme , which were all heathen , and therfore it had bene bootlesse to sue to them . But where there is a christian Prince that holdeth the fundamentall poynctes of the christian faith ( though otherwise this christian Prince doe erre in some matters of doctrine , or touching the rules of discipline ) euerie godly priuate man is to keepe a good conscience , not breaking the vnitie and peace of the Church . But not to take publicke authoritie to reforme .

THese instances of the persons of the Apostles and Princes as they are litle to the purpose , so doe they him as litle good . If the commandement of God were sufficient warrant to the Apostles to doe their worke , though al the Princes of the world resisted ; then must the commandement of the same God be of the same effect to all other instrumentes , whom it pleaseth the Lorde to vse in their callings to his seruice also , though all the Princes in the world should withstand and forbid the same . For neither dignitie of the persons that are vsed , make the commandement of God of more authoritie or necessitie to be donne : neither yet the greatnes or the goodnes of the persons that withstand this commandement of God , make yt of lesse authoritie or necessitie . Onlie let the seruantes of God be sure to haue the commaundement and calling of their God for that they doe , and then they neede not feare the Powers that are placed of Rom. 13. of God for the praise and not for the punishment of the good . Our question then is not whether priuate men may doe that which is not their dutie , to which they haue no commanndement , as this accuser surmizeth to bring vs into danger and hatred ; But whether they may not doe that which God commanndeth them , within the limites of their caling . As to for●ake idolatrie and the false Church , to seke the true worship of God in the true Church , though all the Princes of the world , whether belieuers or infidels should forbid the same ; And this we affirme to be the duetie of euerie perticular person , whosoeuer forbid . We say not now that priuate men may reforme the false Church , abolish publick idolatrie , or depose a false ministrie that the Kinge setteth vpp . This were to breake the boundess of their calling , to intrude vpon the Princes office ; and great cause had they then to feare , for he beareth not the sworde in vayne . Againe , our question is not whether it is the office and dutie of Princes to see abuses reformed both in the Church and common Wealth ( which we thinck no man to be so ignorant or barbarous to denie , except the Anabaptistes ▪ But whether the Church ought not now amongst themselues freely to practize CHRISTS Testament , either in erecting his officers and ordinances , or in reforming or correcting anie fault or abuse that ariseth amongst them , without staying for the Princes licence : yea though the Prince should vpon the paynes of death forbid . This we affirme to be the dutie of euerie perticular Congregation , Math. 18. & 28. 20. CHRIST hauing therfore giuen vnto each and all of them his sacred power and aucthoritie to binde and to loose in earth , and to doe all thinges whatsoeuer he hath commaunded them , with promise to be with them vnto the end of the world . He hath giuen them the two edged sworde of his mouth to cut downe all sinne , The mightie spirituall weapons of his worde to bring in captiuitie euerie thought to the obedience of CHRIST , 2. Cor. 10. to to the ouerthrowing of all munitious reasonings and sublimitie lifted vp against the knowledge of God , and to haue in a readines to reuendge all disobedience . To cast sinne into the Epha , and the talent of Gods iudgment vpon yt , and to remoue yt out of the Church with all power and celeritie , I●●b . 5. with the winges of a Storke and the wynde vnder their winges , and to lift vp the Epha betwixt the heauen and the earth in the eyes of all men . Marck . 34. &c. CHRIST hath giuen this aucthoritie to his seruantes whom he hath left in his house , and hath commanded them all therfore to watche together . Rom. 16. 17. To obserue and avoide them that cause anie diuisions or offenses contrarie to the doctrine that they haue learned . Iude. 3. To contende for the maintenance of the whole faith . Gal. 1. 8. Not to intermit or to be withdrawen from anie part of the same by anie man or Angell , for persecution or anie thing that man can doe vnto them : euerie where warning , instructing , and exhorting his seruantes not to feare persecution for righteousnes sake , to take vp and beare his crosse daylie &c : Likewise for the neglect of those thinges God reproueth and stirreth vp the Churches To repent and to doe the first workes , or ells he wil come against them speedily , and remoue their candlestick . Reu. 2. 10 & 3. 10. &c To repent or ells he wil come against them speedily and fight against them with the sworde of his mouth , Commending those Churches that kept that they had , the worde of his patience in persecution , promising them the Crowne of life , if they remaine faithfull vnto the death : to make them that ouercome pillers in the Temple of God &c.

Mr. Giffard he is contented , that vnder heathen or popish Princes the Church now may reforme or proceed in the practize of the whole will of God , but at no hand where the Prince posesseth the faith in the fundamental poinctes , though otherwise he erre and mis-leade the whole Churche in some matters of doctrine , or touching the rules of discipline . In these abuses and corruptions euerie priuate man is to keepe a good conscience , but none to take publick aucthoritie to reforme : Because these Kinges are principal members of the Church &c. What cleare conscience any priuate man that yeildeth to these publick seene errors or transgressions , Or the whole Church , whilest yt wittinglie doth , or suffreth these thinges to be donne , can keepe , we haue aboue shewed in the SECOND PRINCIPAL TRANSGRESSION . How expreslie contrarie this leauened traditionall proposition of Mr. G. is to all these Scriptures and doctrines aboue recited , is so euident to all men , as yt needeth no furder or lardger refutation . If God haue committed his whole worde vnto his Church , as the foundation of their faith and of euery action they doe , commanding them to stand to the death for the maintenance of the whole truth and the holy practize of the same ; and to cast out in his name and power all , that publicklie and obstinatlie hold anie opinion , or that so commit anie transgression contrary to his worde : If God for the neglect hereof haue menaced to come in iudgment , Deut. 13. and exhorteth the Churches vpon the first discouerie hereof to speedie repentance ; Ier. 6. 8. 23 Howe can Mr. G. persuade the Churche to contynue wittingly in open errors & publick transgression , or in this estate promise them peace ? The holie Ghost hath not set downe this as a note of a true Prophet : Neither hath God promised anie peace to them , that wittingly contynue in any error or transgression , vntil they repent : Doth not one deade flie putrifie and cause to stincke the whole oyntment of the Apothecary ? A litle leauen make sower the whole lumpe ? Wee would knowe of him therfore , whether that diuelish distinction of fundamental errors and transgressions , and such errors and transgressions as he holdeth not fundamentall ( wherebie he turneth away the practize of what part of Gods worde he lusteth , and iustifieth ( or at the least tollerateth ) what open errors & publick transgressions of Gods worde he lusteth ) will excuse him , or anie that wittinglie breake the least of Gods commandements ? And whether the aucthoritie or christianitie of anie Prince wil in that daye excuse before the Lorde anie man , that hath at the Princes commandment committed , much more contynued to committ , anie transgression , without vnfaigned repentance ? But if the least error be contrarie to true faith , the least transgression sinne , and no knowen sinne or error to be committed or continued in : howe can he persuade the Churche to commit or to contynue in anie error or transgression ? so highly to tempt and prouoke the Lorde ? And now to the poynct . we would know of him whether anie Prince , much-lesse a christian Prince , may abrogate the commandement of God , or take away that power and aucthoritie that God hath giuen to the Church vnto the worldes end . If not , but that the commandements of God remaine alwaies the same , and the Churche hath the same power vnder a christian magistrate , that vnder a heathen , why then yt ought not to proceede to the obedience and practize of Gods worde , whether in correcting and redressing faultes , or in going forewarde in the wayes of God as they are reueiled vnto them , as well and freelie vnder a Christian Prince as vnder an heathen ? Is it because a Christian Princd is the principall and greatest member of the Church ▪ why by so much the rather ought and the better may the Church doe it , hauing now such a singular help and rare accomplement of so pretious a member . Euerie true member is giuen for the help and comfort , and not for the hindrance and hurt of the body : Wee may then much better conclude , that the Church vnder a christian Prince may procede with all freedome in the sincere practize of CHRISTES Gospel : because he is a member of CHRIST & of the Church : then vnder an infidel Prince , that is an enimie to CRHIST and to the Church .

ANother reason he bringeth , whie the Churche vnder a christian Prince may not reforme without his licence , or vntill hee will ▪ because it is the office of a christian Prince to reforme the Church , and therfore the Church in taking such a publicke worke vpon them , shoulde but vsurpe and encroch vpon his office . Because wee are so apt to mis-vnderstand one an other , and to take words in too lardge or straight a sense , it were good wee set downe what is meant by this reformation here spoken of , before we proceede . Wee meane then by reformation , to reduce all thinges and actions to the true antient and primatiue paterne of Gods worde . This we graun to be the office and duetie of the Prince to doe aswel in the Church as in the common Wealth . The Princes eye may suffer no transgression of Gods lawe , he is to ouersee , and see euerie one to doe their dueties in the office and caling God hath placed them . Yet is this no preiudize to the Christian libertie and power of the Church , no impediment to anie member therof , but rather a singular preseruation of all dueties , and an excellent instigation of them all to doe the wil of God in their calings . For in all this here is no power giuen the Prince to restraine anie iore of the libertie and power of the Church , or to with-hold anie one person from doing the whole will of God in their caling : Much-lesse is here anie power giue the Prince to drawe or compel the Church or any member therof to the least transgression or error : yea when the Prince shall in anie thing be founde contrarie to God , God is then to be obeyed rather then man . And this is no disobedience to the Princes soueraigne and supreame power ouer al persons and causes ecclesiastical or ciuile , is no preiudize or impediment to the Church , or to anie member therof , from doing the whole will of God in their calings : So in like maner are not the proceedings of the Church according to CHRISTES Testament , any derogation from or enchrochment of , the royal power and prerogatiue of Princes , as this false Prophet out of the mouth of Sathau woulde perswade : but rather a singular preservation and most rare illustration therof . Whose reignes are neuer so glorious as when , or glorious but when , God is worshipped and obeyed according to his reueiled worde , and those most chearished and fauored , that are most faithful therin . In the Church of CHRIST are al duties most faithfullie taught , and no knowen transgression of anie knowen duetie suffred , either to God or man . Howe then can Sathan himself say , that the proceedings of the Church , or rather or Christ in his Church , are contrarie to , or derogate from the royall power of Princes ? They cannot be of God that thus set at variance these blessed powers which God hath so conioyned and contempered for the mutual help each of other , and the seruice of his glorie . No it is the false Church and this antichristian hierarchie that are preiudicial vnto , enchroch vpon , and vsurp the Royall aucthoritie , power , iurisdiction , titles , honors , prerogatiues , lads , palaces , pompe &c ▪ of Princes . The true Church both knoweth howe to obey the Lorde , and their Prince in the Lorde . They vsurpe not the Princes office when they reforme anie publick fault in the worship , administration , gouernment ecclesiastical &c , but execute their owne office . For this is not the Princes office to doe in person , but to commande the Church to doe it by such instrumentes as God hath ther vnto ordayned . This commandment of the Prince doth neither giue the Church more power , or make the action more lawful : Neither doth the prohibition of anie Prince take away this power of the Church that God hath giuen , or make the action that God hath commanded more vnlawful . How then doth the Church more sinne in doing these duties in reformation and correction of publick faultes , and proceeding in the practize of Gods will , ( which God hath commanded to be donne by his Church ) then anie priuate man sinneth , when he correcteth anie fault in himself or in his family , or beginneth to doe anie duetie ( which he before neglected ) without his Princes lycence ? Seing the Princes eye , power , and office extendeth aswell to ciuile as to ecclesiastical dueties , aswell to priuate as to publick reformation . yea the Princes licence in al Christian consideration , extendeth to al godly duties & honest actions , euen to as many things either to be donne or to be left vndonne , as the commandements of God extend vnto ; For he is the Minister of God for the praise of them that do wel , and for the punishment of them that doe euill . when the Prince resisteth or suffreth not the worde of God to haue free passage , he sinneth & doth not his duety . But this can be no excuse for vs to cease to doe the wil of God , or to intermit our duetie . If he drawe the sword and smite vs for wel doing , that but augmenteth his sinne , and the blessing of God resteth vpon vs that suffer for righteousnes sake . wee may not for feare of persecution , or for the indignation of Princes leaue the commandements of God vndonne . For that were with this false Prophet to mancipate the lawe of God to the wil of Princes , and vtterly to abolish the crosse of Christ out of the world , For Princes neuer punish men for obeying , but for breaking their hestes . Beastly then & hellish is the speach of this man , That saith , the Church refuseth the peace of their Prince , and prouoketh him to strike , when they either reforme such faultes as are in the Church , or proceed to doe such things as God hath commanded them , though the Prince forbid and wil not giue licence . But especiallie where the blasphemer is not afraid to say , that the Church when it procedeth to the establishing and practize of Christes ordinances , erecteth a state & gouernment of their owne . Doe they erect anie thing of themselues , or that CHRIST himself hath not erected ? Is not this to accuse CHRIST of treason , because he saith he is a Kinge ? And his seruants of sedition , because they set vp his kingdome without the licence , and against the will of Princes , though it cost them their liues for the same ? Is not this man a faithful seruant of CHRIST , a faithfull subiect to his Prince that so reprocheth CHRISTS heauenlie kingdom , reiecteth his ordinances and commandments to make them depend vpon the wil of Princes , that so seduceth his Prince , and would drawe her into battell against God almighty and his Church ? Yea if to set vp Christes kingdome in a christian estate without the leaue or licence of the Prince or state , be rebellion and disobedience , a derogation from their sacred power , an intrusion into their high office , how then will he excuse our Sauiour CHRIST himself ? who being borne in the flesh , but in th' estate of a subiect and a priuate man ( hee neither being Minister of the Temple , nor magistrate in the common Wealth , and that in a godly state vnder faithful magistrates , as himself acknowledgeth ) did notwithstanding by al meanes in deuour to set vp his kingdome , preached , baptized , caled al men vnto him , although the whole state and gouernours earnestly sorbad and resisted him . Those gouernours were to be obeyed , and he himself was obedient in al things , as became a true subiect . If it be answered that he did it by the especial commission and commandment of God ; Wee readilie graunt that a sufficient warrant vnto him before God and men : as also vnto all others that haue the commandement of the same God for that they doe . But what is this to our question ? Whether the Church or such as haue aucthoritie from God , ought to be stayed from doing the commandment of God , by the inhibition of a christian Prince or state ? Wee graunte it high sinne and intollerable presumption for anie that haue not aucthoritie of God , to enterprise to doe anie thing in the Church , whether with or without their Princes licence . But if yt be vnlawful for the Church , or such as haue aucthoritie of God , without the licence of their christian Prince or gouernours , Then verilie our Sauiour & his Disciples offended herein , who stayed not to doe the will of his heauenlie Father for the threates & laying wayte of the Rulers . Furder , if it be vnlawfull & derogatorie to a Christian Princes office & aucthoritie , for anie to doe Gods wil in their callings , and for the Church to proceede in the practize of CHRISTES Testament , though against his wil , Then is it also vnlawfull vnder a heathen Prince . For the christian and heathen Princes haue one and the same aucthoritie , office , duetie , to see all thinges both in the Church and in the commune Wealth donne according to the wil of God . There is the same reuerence and obedience ( though I say not the same bowells of loue ) due to the heathen , that is due to the christian Prince in regarde of their office . The heathen Prince shall answere aswell as the christian for the neglect of their duetie , for the abuse of their power and place . And thus also if Mr. G. doctrines be sownd , the Apostles likewise sinned against the aucthoritie of Princes , in erecting CHRISTS kingdome , and the Churches in proceeding to receiue the same , and to doe the wil of God , without their Princes licence , and notwitstanding their prohibition , Seing that the vnbeleeuing Princes haue the same place , office , and aucthoritie , and ought to haue the same obediene in respect thereof , that christian Princes haue , or ought haue . And sure most diuelish and detestable are these two published and generallie receiued opinions of these contrarie factions of our English Cleargie men ; The one giuing out , that the forme of ecclesiasticall gouernment prescribed in CHRISTS Testament , practized by the Apostles and primatiue Churches in the tymes of persecution , is not nowe necessarie or tollerable vnder a Christian Prince . The other giuing out , that those ordinances and that gouernment which they acknowledge CHRIST to haue instituted and prescribed to his Church vnto the worldes end , may not nowe , vnder a christian Prince , be put in practize by the Church , if he forbid the same , as they might , ought , and were vnder heathen Princes by the faithful in all ages . With the one of these blasphemous positions , the Prelates defend their outragious gouernment , and all their antichristian proceedings . with the other , the tyme-seruers these counterfeite Reformistes , colour and defend their perfidie , not witnessing vnto and practizing the Gospell of Christ , and their seruile subiection to the gouernment of Antichrist . By which positions both sides most impiously abrogate the heauenlie gouernment and ordinances of Christ in his Church , and intollerably seduce and abuse that most blessed and comfortable ordinance of the christian Magistracie . Both of them hereby shut vp the kingdome of heauen against all men , neither entring themselues nor suffring such as would , but holding the whole land vnder the enormous gouernment of Antichrist in the wrath of God , whose iudgment therfore sleepeth not .

YEt remayneth an other dangerous error which Mr. G. hath picke● out of a certaine answere made by me HENRIE BARROWE to three greate Bishops of this land &c. where being demaunded whether the Queene may make lawes for the Church which are not contrarie to the worde of God . I ( seeing wherat they aymed : vzt : to maintayne al these popish reliques , deuises , tromperies &c , wherwith their worship & Church is pestered ) answered ( as I remember ) to this effect . That no Prince , neither al the men of the world , not the Church yt self , could make any lawes for the Church , other then CHRIST hath left in his worde : But I thought it the dutie of euerie Prince ( especially of euerie christian Prince ) to enquire out & renewe the lawes of God , and to stir vp all their subiects vnto more diligent & careful keeping of the same . This answere Mr. G. after his accustomed maner pronownceth Anabaptisticall , de●ijng and cutting off a great part of the power God hath giuen vnto Princes : and a great part of Discipline . Proof of these chardges he maketh none , except we must take these two assertions in way of proofe , vntill he bring better . The first is , that CHRIST hath giuen general lawes or rules for matters of circumstance that be indifferent & variable in the perticulars , and so to be altered and abolished , as the peace and edification of the Church shall require . And therfore that Princes with the Church are to ordaine & to establish such orders by those generall rules , as may afterward for iust cause be altered . Mr. G. his antecedent here is so general & extendent , his conclusion so doubtful and indefinite , taking such roome to himself in both to escape & euade , as except he drawe nearer , and in his next booke take the paynes to set downe what he meaneth in his proposition by [ general lawes & rules ] and by [ matters of circumstance ] And in his conclusion , what kinde of orders those [ such orders ] are the Prince should ordeine & establish , he shal be so far from distressing or convincing me , as I shall neuer perceiue where he is , or where about he goeth . This when he shal doe , then I shall knowe what to answere him . In the meane tyme I confesse manie thinges of circumstance as the tyme & place of assembling , what scriptures to reade or to interprete , how longe to continue in prayer or prophecie &c , to be left in libertie at the discretion of the Church , to be wisely vsed according to their present occasions , to edification , order , decencie . Of these & sondrie such like , the Lord in wisedome sawe it not good to set downe positiue or permanent lawes for all Churches and tymes : because the present estate and diuers occasions of all Churches , yea of anie one Church , are so diuers & variable , that prescript definitiue lawes could not be set of such things in perticular for the space of one moneth , without manifold inconveniences & great preiudize to the Church . Of such things then as the Lord for these wise endes & waighty causes hath left in the libertie & discreation of the Church to be vsed and ordered according to the present estate and occations therof &c , may man make no prescript positiue lawes in perticular , to enioyne therby this forme , this tyme &c vpon all or vpon anie one Church , without restrayning that , which God hath left at libertie ; yea without controlling & contrarijng the wisdome of God ( which no doubt is most excellently perfect euen in the least thinges ) and without manie other grieuous inconveniences & intollerable preiudize to the Church of God . Much better therfore should the Prince prouide for the Church to see them duly to obserue the lawes that God hath giuen , and to vse their libertie aright , Or where they transgresse in either of these , to reprooue or to correct accordingly , then to make and enioyne new lawes of his owne deuising , so contrarie to the libertie , yea euen to that order & discipline CHRIST hath giuen : which cannot be ioyned vnto , exercised , or preserued by anie other lawes then God hath made ; as by due examination in perticular of the least or best thing they thus deuise and enioyne , will appeare . CHRIST that great Architect of his house hath left vs a most absolute & exact paterne of all things belonging therevnto . vnto which no humane deuise can more be added or ioyned , then heauen & earth can be commingled . Wherefore we may by better right esteeme Mr. G. a corrupter of CHRISTS discipline , or rather a fordger of a newe discipline , for making & bringing in new lawes into the church other then Gods lawes , Then he may pronownce vs denyers & cutters off of CHRISTES discipline , for allowing and receiuing no lawes for anie action in the Church , but Gods lawes .

HIs other reason is this . Princes ought to establish the whole christian religion , to punish idolaters , wicked despisers , heretickes , schismaticks , blasphemers &c. But this cannot be donne but by lawes made & established : Therfore Princes ought to make lawes for the Church . And I in denijng this , denie a great part of that power , which God hath giuen vnto Princes . His first proposition is no more then I haue professed in mine answere . If he vnderstand his second proposition of other lawes then God hath made , I then denie yt as most false & vntrue . whereof vntill he make proofe , he hath not obtayned his purpose , nor convinced mine answere . And therfore til then must withdrawe his triumphant conclusions . I hold that Gods true religion is only founded vpon , and established by his owne holie worde & lawes , and not vpon or by mans lawes : And that the Prince may aswel make a newe religion , as newe lawes for religion . Furder , as I hold in Gods worde sufficient rules & directions for all actions of the Church : So hold I in the same most iust iudgments & meete punishments to euerie transgression . So that the Prince can no way better advance & establish true religion then by , yea can no way establish by but yt , the promulgation , and due execution of Gods lawes : calling all men of all degrees to the hearing & sincere practize thereof in their calings , and dulie punishing al such as transgresse the same after such order proclamed & established . God hath incommended & inioyned the booke of his lawe to all Princes , therbie the gouerne both the Church & common Wealth in al things , as we plentifullie reade Deut. 17. 18. 19. & 5. 32. & 29. 9. &c. and 4. 6. Ioshu. 1. 8. 1 Kinges . 2. 3. 1 Chron. 28. and in sondrie other places . The Kinge is not made the Lord , but the Minister of Gods lawe , to which he is bownde , and for the transgression therof shall answere vnto God , as anie other person . He is placed in the seate of God , and the worde of God committed vnto him , not to alter or neglect the least part thereof , Not to make newe lawes , but to keepe & see obserued those lawes which God hath made . Greate then is their ignorance that thincke not that God hath giuen sufficient instruction & direction in his holie worde for all actions of his Church . And greater their wickednes that knowing this , dare giue mortal men leaue to make lawes for Gods Church . If they say that the Princes lawe must be consonant to Gods lawe , Then I answere they haue warrant & groundworke in Gods worde . which if they haue , then are they Gods & not mans lawe : For Gods lawe extendeth as farr as the equitie of his law extendeth . But what lawes soeuer haue no warrant of groundworke in Gods worde , those cannot be said to be consonant to Gods wil , because there we haue the whole minde of CHRIST , and so are to be auoyded as superfluous , burdenous , and contrarie to Gods word , how necessarie or expedient soeuer they may seeme to humane wisdome .

AND now let the christian reader iudge what cause Mr. GIFFARD had to pronownce this mine answere to the Bishopps question Anabaptistical , when I therein acknowledged the whole lawe of God , the place , office , and whole power of Princes that God hath giuen them , all which the Anabaptistes vtterlie denie . Or with what conscience he hath chardged vs as seduced by Brownes writing , And to hold that Princes ought not to compel their Subiectes to the true worship of God . Neither ought to reforme the Church . All which sclanders this my answere which he here endeuoreth to confute , refuteth to his face :

FINIS .