RIght glad am I to see you Desiderius : but who ever would haue thought to haue met you here in these partes ? Some great & weighty cause doubtlesse hath occasioned you to come hither . But I praye tell me , how doe all our friends in England , and what good newes bring you from thence ?

It may be thought a wonder to see your selfe here ( my much beloved Miles ▪ ) for it was reported that you were at Rome , that you were the Popes scholer , &c. But I am glad to see you so farre from his citie of seven hills , where his seat is . And that putts mee in better hope concerning you then others have .

For certayn Desiderius , I am and alwaies have been , furder off and more opposi●e to the Popes religion and learning , then now distant from his citie and seate , where I never yet came not purpose to come , vnlesse I should happen to long for fyre and fagot .

That increaseth my hope , & to bring like joy unto your selfe , know this , that our friends in England are generally well , as I see you are , whereof I am not a litle joyeux .

And how goes it with religion ? Are there not good hopes for reformation ?

The hopes that way , are as fewe & small as ever they were ; Howbeit that which you call reformation , others doe count deformation .

But how then is it with the Prelats , Are they so proud ; or doe they dominiere & beare like sway as heretofore ?

Yea doubtlesse . For there are none that are put down more then the Puritans ( as they are called , ) nor none that rise up faster then the Prelates , as you call them .

Then in deed there can be no present hope , for Bishops and the abuses brought in by them , are a bane to the beawtie of true religion , and doe greatly hinder all sound and sincere walking therein .

Multitudes are otherwise minded then you are , and many wiser then I doe think them to be the very pillars of the Church , and chiefe upholders of true religion . And what should I then think of the matter ?

Not as the multitude doe , for then you think erroneously . And if these be the pillars or propps of any Church , it must needs be the church of Antichrist . For wee finde no warrant in all the scriptures , that their offices , callings or administrations , haue any place , power or right in the Church of Christ , as shal plainly appeare hereafter . But where you seem to let your judgment rely upon the multitude , and to approve of that which wiser then your self doe justify ; you are taught not to follow a multitude to doe evill , Exod. 23. And the divine proverbe sheweth , that it is as great an evil to justify the wicked as to condemne the innocent . But , as woe is pronounced to him that calls good evil ; so likewise to him that calleth evil good . Esa. 5.29 . For your judgeing of matters in case of religion , you ought to look to the lawe and word of God , and not to the wisdome of man . For the wisdome of the wise men of this world is foolishnes with God , and the wisdome of God is foolishnes with them . The Philosophers and other wise men , could never by their worldly wisdome atteyne to the right knowledge of God & heavenly things . This apperteyneth to the foolish things of the world , which God hath chosen to confound the wise . As sayth the Apostle , 1 Cor. 1. Read the whole chapter at your leasure , for your better information . But I pray you how sayd you that it was with the Puritans ?

It is then with the Bishops according to the old proverbe , evil weeds doe growe apace . And Mr. Tindall in the practise of Prelates , shewe●h to this eff●ct , That as the Ivie comp●sseth the oake , and groweth up about it , till it is higher then he oake it self ; so doth the Prelates with their Princes . Hereof wee haue seen lamentable experience in the papacie . For the Bishop of Rome hath gotten himself aloft , advauncing himself above the trees , as it is in Iothams parable , Iudg. 9.7 . &c. that is , above Princes , even Kings and Emperors , whom he makes his vassals and kissers of his feete . We ●●ad in ●yst , of one of those Bishops , that 〈…〉 upon the Emperors neck ; and having s●t on the crowne with his hand , hee stroke it off with his foote . To shewe that he had power to 〈◊〉 up & call downe Kings at his pleasure . God grant that such presidents may be a warning for all Kings and Princes to keep downe such climers , while power is in their hand to restraine their unnaturall growth . But is it not to now , that the Arch Bishops grace is come to the Title of a Prince , and President in the Right honourable privie counsell ? And are not also the inferiour Bishops invested with the stile of Barons and Peeres of the Realme ? Which titles and authorities are in deed fit for Peeres and Magistrates in the common wealth , not for ministers of the Church , but is forbidden unto them in the sacred Scriptures . And yet such titles doe men give , and these Bishops presume to take notwithstanding . And that , not as they are imployed in civil affaires ; but , as they are ministers and spiritual men ; and are therefore called spiritual Lordes , even as the others ( truely honourable ) are called the Lords temporall , and are so distinguished one from another . The abuse ought to be much lam●nted and utterly abandoned . And these are of that broode which the learned linguist Mr. Hugh Broughton usually calleth the banned Bishops . But tell m● how doe they now behave themselves in their usurped authorities ?

It may be answered , That that is not usurped which is given . But Princes doe give them their authoritie . Therefore they usurp it not .

If the Prince of princes hath not given it them but forbidden it , they are usurpers ; & the donation of earthly princes cannot make them to be otherwise ; seing it is unlawfull for the one to give , & for the other to receive such authorities and titles . But you answer not my demand , how they behave themselves therein ?

They imprison , put to silence , & degrade at their owne pleasure , and ( to speak the trueth , they ) stand more upon the observation of their owne unholy ceremonies , then upon Gods most holy oracles . And all that refuse to bow , they will bend ; till they break the back of their conscience . So that I see no end of their evills , neither can I dive into their doings , for a suteable discoverie , without much sorowe of heart .

When Iohn Baptist sent Disciples unto Iesus to ask him whether he was he that should come , or whether we should look for another ? Our Saviour answered , Goe and tell Iohn , what thinges ye heare and see . The blinde receive sigh● and the halt walk : the leapers are cleansed , and the deafe heare . the dead are raysed up , and the poore receive the Gospell . Math 11.4 5.6 &c. Now these being the works that the true Christ should doe , & Iesus doeing them , Iohn knew and taught his disciples to know , that that was in deed the very Christ promised . Even so those works that you say the Bishops doe , being the works of Antichrist ; doe tell & reach that these Bishops are truely Antichristian . And the discoverie of their doings hath been sufficiently performed heretofore by sundry persons & in divers manners : by some merily , by some modestly , by some gravely , all soundly . Therefore take you no care for that service , neyther let any be dismayed for their loftynes & tyrannicall cariages . A lofty sayle with great windes will soone break downe a rotten mast . And the higher the Bishops climbe , the nearer they are to their fall , & the greater shall it be . Yea who can tell how soon the windes of Gods wrath shall blow upon them , against which they shall not stand . The Axe of Gods worde is ready hastily to hew them down , did not humane authoritie hinder the stroke of it to support the Lordlynes of these Prelates for a season . But when the time is come which the Highest hath set , humane authoritie shall no longer hinder , but help to further Gods work . As it was in the dayes of Cyrus King of Persia , when the deliv●rance of Gods people came so suddenly , as they were like those that dreame , ( Psal. 126. ) which is , as if they reasoned in themselves , are we delivered or doe we but dream of deliverance ? The first Babylonians had their fail , and who need make doubt that these who are Babylonians spiritual and were typed out by the former shall tast of their cup ? and when they haue drunk , then may this race of Anchrists clergie dolefully sing the downfall of their offices and Bishopricks . For downe they must , mauger the Divil deviser and first foun●der of their function . ( Though Babel should moun● vp unto heaven , and though shee should defend he● strength from on high , yet from me shall her destroyers come , sayth the Lord . Ier. 51.53 . )

I dare not be so severe to censure them in respect of their office , ( which may be holy , though they are unholy , ) but in respect of their harmfulnes in their office , which I cō●fess , is too too apparant and past all denial .

If a woulf should forbeare to ravine and cease to doe harme , yet is he a Wolfe still , and hath in him the same wolvish nature ; and who then would trust him in a flock of sheep , or commit the guidance of them to his charge ? Even so , if those Bishop ; and false ministers should forbeare to doe harme , yet are they the same false ministers stil , being not sent of God , not sanct●fied unto his people , and therfore ought not to be trusted with the sheepe of Christ , not be a guide unto them , but to be thrust out , although for the time present they did no harme at all . Thus might they bothe please God in doeing his will , and put away from themselves all danger and dread which continually do compasse them whiles they are ledd by such guides . Yea the perill whereof is much greater then if they were sold to be under the conduct or command of the chief Captaynes under their most mortal and manifestly knowne enemies . For such danger is but ●●mporal , but this eternall . That concerneth 〈◊〉 the body onely , this the soule , and body ●o . Take heed ther●fore what ministers you ●ommit your self unto for the guide of your ●●●e , lest whiles they should feed you with the ●holesome milk of Gods word , they fill you with the poi●on of their owne or other mens ●nventions . This is a true position that no mi●isters may stand in any Church of Christ that ●re not Ministers of Christ , and haue their calling and sending from him mediately or immediately . And as the Apostle sayth , No man ta●● this honour vnto himself , but he that is called of God as was Aaron , Heb. 5.4 . But those B ps. have no such calling or sending , & so haue no lawful right to administer in the church of Christ , or to be reteyned therein . Againe , Christs Church may be p●rfect & intyre , without the forenamed Bi●hops or others of their brood ; so may civil societies also ; and heathen idolatrie likewise : onely the Antichristian Syna●● of Rome , and all others in her fashion , cannot be perfect and intire , but defective and lame without them . Therefore I wish that all such offices were sent thither againe , or to the bottomeless pit from whence they came , out of the smoke , with that heap of Locusts , Rev. 9.2.3 . where the note upon the English Bible approveth this that I say , for there it sheweth in direct words , that those Locusts are false t●●chers , heretikes , and worldly subtile Prelates , 〈◊〉 Monkes , Friers , Cardinals , Patriarkes , Archbishop● Bishops , Doctors , Bachelers , and Masters which fo●●sake Christ , to mainteyne false doctrine . And tho●● Lord God of hosts strong and mighty brin● it to passe that they may haue no more autho●ritie over thy people , then they ought to yeel● themselves unto .

You haue very fitly compare● them vnto wolves , for they devoure and mak● havock of the flock , so as the poore sheepe o● Christ , can hardly be suffered to feed in an● good pasture . And much is the mischief they doe in the land . In which respect I desire with my hart that England were quitt of them , fo● a full freedome from all their tyrannicall jurisdiction , which as it is to some very hurtful ; so is it unto me detestable and most hatefull . For lambs should not be lions , nor sheepe should not be wolves .

And I would we were quit of them not onely as they are harmfull , and havock-making creatures , but as they are false functions and ministeries that God never instituted . For that was the ground wherupon Iosiah that godly King , put downe the Chemarims , or Priests of Baal , 2 King 23.5 . And histories doe make mention of Flamings , & Archflamings , that were in our owne Land , before ever any Arch Bishop was there . And although they are not so hurtfull as are these Bishops , ( save ●●ly that they led the people on in Pagan 〈◊〉 , ) yet being false functions , downe went ●●ey likewise , as did the Chemarims & other ●●e functions of old . And the same doome for these now , who cannot chuse will they 〈◊〉 they , but must taste of the same cup , when ●●e time is come that justice shall take place a●●inst the false functions of this later age , a●●inst all the inventions of men , and false or●●nances , in and about the worship of God , ●●d performance therof . For these are special 〈◊〉 . But to say that false functions may be ●●ployed in true services of God , when the ●ersons possessing them , doe cease the doing charme ; then if the Divil himself should cease ●● forbeare to doe harme , that ground would ●ead men to a love and liking of him , or lean●●g to him . Wheras all men notwithstanding were bound to hold him at the swords pointe ●s the great enemie of mankinde , whom ne●er any man ought eyther to trust , or to give over the combate against him , till they haue expulsed him . And even so for his Ministers . Lay this well to heart Desiderius , & look well to your reasoning , for I perceive we shall have a conference profitable to be printed , so as I adde unto it some other worthy things that I haue to shew unto you . And if I can conveniently get it done among these strangers , t● printed shall it be .

I assent unto it . And to proc●●● on in our discourse I tell you , that Bishops 〈◊〉 spoken of in the holy scriptures which y●●● self doe professe to be the ground of all thi●● in religion . Doth not Paul the Apostle bo●● to Timothee and Titus speake of Bishops , a●● shewes what they ought to be ; & saluteth 〈◊〉 Bishops & Deacons at Philippi in his Epis●●● to that Church ? So that it seemes that 〈◊〉 their office , but the abuse in their office oug●●● to be withstood and abolished . And why th●● doe you condemne the office it selfe ?

I condemne not , neither fin● fault with the name of a Bishop , nor yet wi●● the office of a Bishop , in th' Apostles sense an● intendement . For his meanings is of such B●●shops as ought to be over a particular church or congregation , not over many congregat●●ons . And as the word Bishop , is derived fro● the Greek word which signifieth Overseer ; so 〈◊〉 Pastors , Teachers , and Governours over part●●cular congregations are such Bishops . Whero● there may be many in one Church to feed 〈◊〉 in the faith , and to governe it in holy order , 〈◊〉 in the feare of God , according to his word● not as Lordes over their faith ; but in all hum●●litie and meeknes as ensamples to the flock , 〈◊〉 Pet. 5. But that one Bishop should be over many churches , even over a 〈…〉 Province , or Diocese , and exercise domin●●●● over them , as their Lord spiritual , and that with all rigour and tyranny , this is a changing of the holy ordinance of God to make their owne craftines to prosper , as it is in 25.●oncerning ●oncerning Antiochus Epiphanes . And by their grounds , there may aswell be a Bishop over all Christendome . And so came that un●oly father the Pope to be mounted up into ●is chaire of preheminence , wherein he poi●oned all Christendome with his abomina●●ons . Such dominion hath Christ forbidden to his Ministers . Mat. 20.25 . &c. Luke 22.25 . ●6 . But he alone is our Archbishop and Lord spiritual , who walketh in the middest of the 7. golden candlesticks , or churches . The others may we not acknowledge so to be , nor allowe them so to doe by any power from him . But these are rather of and haue their power from the spirite that ruleth in the aire , and in the children of disobedience . And are not sent of God , except in his wrath for a scourge unto peoples and nations of the earth . The ecclesiastical titles which they claim unto themselves are peculiar privileges to our Lord Iesus onely , and are to be given him to the glory of his name : but his glorie therein wil he not give to any other . Furthermore when such names and titles are given unto men , they are the names of blasphemie , Revel. 13.1 . So th●● it is the Arch and Lord Bishops that I disclai● and testify against , which have jurisdiction o●ver a Dioces , as a Diocesan Bishop , or ov●● half a kingdome as a provincial Bishop , or o●ver a whole kingdome as primate : Fo● by like ground , there may be a Bishop ove● all Bishops and kingdomes in Christendome ▪ Which yet were detestable before God , & to such men also , as are inlightned by his spirit ▪ The man of sinne , and mysterie of iniquit● sprung up by degrees til it came to that height and our Englih Prelates doe helpe to hold 〈◊〉 up still : But God that condemneth it wil bring it downe . But I hope that some others bette● furnished with bookes , abilitie & leisure , the●● I either am or can possibly be , in this pilgrimage from my native country , will by this occasion both conferre the prophesies in the holy scriptures , and gather togeither a Catalogue of writers as a cloude of witnesses , for further manifestation of the truth against these remnants of the Antichristian race , although very much is done that way already . For touching the Ministerie of Arch and Lordbishops aforementioned , with other ministeries under them : That their offices were never appointed by Christ , but is a new ministerie devised by man , both in their office , entrance , administration and maintenance , and ought not therefore to be continued ; the scriptures haue shewed such light as haue filled our land full of proofe 〈◊〉 severall workes aswel of the people called Brow●ists , as of the forwarder sort of Ministers . And it is certaine that all such offices are of evill note , & of very bad esteem in all well reformed Churches in the world . Also the holy Martyrs and writers old and new haue condemned them . Mr Chadderton of Emmanuel Colledge in Cambridge hath truely taught and confidently affirmed , in his Sermon on Rom. 12. That the Church ( speaking of the Church of England ) abhorreth and loatheth the things which are abounding in her ; as namely Ach Bishops , Lord Bishops , Deanes , Arch Deacons , Chancellors , Commissaries , Officials , and all such as are rather members and parts of the whore and strumpet of Rome , then of the pure virgine and spouse of the immaculate lambe . Therfore ( saith hee ) shee will have these ( if they will needs bee of her body ) to shewe that they be created of God , and united unto her by Christ her head . If they will needs be of the heavenly Ierusalem , let them shew that they came downe from heaven , and who gave them from thence . For the Apostles never knew them . Sion hath not heard of them . Ierusalem which is above will not acknowledge them . The watchmen ( no doubt ) being a sleepe , they haue crept into the citie of the Lord . But now they are espied , now the church complaineth of them , both because they haue no title nor interest in it as publike members : As also because of the length of their unlawfull swords they keepe out the lawfull members of the body . Wee therefore which are the Lords remembrau - ●ers must never s●ffer him to rest , till he hath expelled out of I●rusalem , wherin they haue no right to exercise 〈◊〉 unlawful authoritie . Thus farre goeth hee ●e●e verbatim . And it were endlesse to set downe wh●● others haue written in this kinde agreing therewith

Wicl●ffs Tenth Article , Mr Fox ( who wrote th●● Actes & Monuments of the Church ) maketh to b● this , That there be 12. Disciples of Antichrist , Popes Cardinals , Patriarks , Archbishops , Bishops , Arch●● deacons , Officials , Deanes , Monkes , Chanons , Fryers Pardoners . And Mr Bales descendeth to the lower degrees of popish ministers , even to Sir Iohn the parish priest , which togither with the former , he calleth the names of blasphemie written upon the head of the beast . Mr Barnes in the 6. Art . for which he was condemned , said I will never beleeve , nor can ever beleeve , that one man may by the lawe of God be Bishop of 2. or 3. Cities , yea of a whole Countrie , for that is contrary to the doctrine of Paul who writing vnto Titus , commandeth that he should ordeyne a Bishop in every town .

Hooper on the 8. Commandement sheweth , that one man may nor haue two livings , & then he addeth : But this is clawe me and I will clawe this : If the Bishop permit not their Priestes to haue two Benefices ●● might likewise happen the Priests would say that the Bishop should be Bishop but of one citie : and indeed so it should be , and till Magistrates bring them to that pointe , it shall be as possible to heare a Bishop wade godly and simply through the scripture , in all case of religion , as to drive a Camel through the eye of a needle . &c.

Trouble not your self further in this matter at this time , for you haue spoken therof both largely and plainely , opening as it were a window through the which I see a great light , and as my name by interpretation is Desire ; so doe I most earnestly desire the same light might shine clearely in eyes of all other mens understanding . And now I would I were as wel able as willing to make sute to the higher powers that by their lawfull authoritie , the unlawfull offices & jurisdictions of the Prelates might be abolished . The performance wherof as you know , would make way for establishing of godly preachers throughout the land , and removall of all dumbe dogges and ilde drones , which feed their own bodies & sterve other mens soules . Might this gratious worke be once effected , there would be full supply for many painfull and wel deserving preachers , out of those fat Bishopricks and ric● revenues , which now serve but for a fewe ( & yet too many ) proud prela●es , and their swaggering retinue . But some that were fit to be suiters in this worthy cause , will surely fainte , eyther for feare of mans face , or for want of faith in God .

Yet let all men be comforted in this , that God will haue his worke done , when and by whomsoever he shall appoint the performance therof . For strong and Mighty is ●he Lord of Hostes , able to doe all things , when man is weak and unable to doe any thing . He hath spoken the word and it shall stand , yea his word is ●ure word , Hab. 3. who then shall resist ? And who knowes not that the Aboats and the rest of that generation , ●ad as much ●oo●ing in England as haue now the Bishops and wer● ( in their time ) as much supported by humane authoritie as are they ? yet being parts of that an i●●ristian synagogue & spiritual Babylon which the Lord hath threatned to consume , they are consumed , rooted out , end quite abolished , and that with as much detestation as these their brethr●n are now had in admiration : who being growne great & go ten up aloft , are also terrible to the peoples , wherein they fitly resemble the Anakims & race of the Gi●nts in Canaan , for feare of whom the harts of the Israelites melted : wherin they & ten of the 12 spies greatly sinned : but ●aleh & Iosuah who were faithful , incouraged the Lords people to goe up against them , and possesse the good land which the Lord promised them . Be you careful to follow the example of the faithful & not of the feareful , even ●s you desire to haue sinne subdued , and the unrighteous ordinances of Antichrist overthrown , that the Lords blessed ordinances , which he hath promised to his people now under the Gospell , may be established and enjoyed among them . Labour you as an instrumentall meanes , to make the same light appear unto others , which you say hath arisen unto your self ; that both they and you may walk in the light , as children of the light & of the day ; forsaking all d●eds of darknes . Continue constant in a good testimony , and bereave not your self of the fruit that will followe . Seeke unto him for your helpe , who is Lord of Lords , and King of Kings , who hath the hear●es of all Kings and Princes of the earth to turne ●hem as it pleaseth him . And secundarily seeke unto higher powers , the Prince Peeres and Magistrates , with earnest suite according to your place and utmost meanes that you can make , for furtherance of a full reformation and freedome from the former abuses : which I stedfastly beleeve God wil accomplish at one time or other . Therfore when you haue begun well , be not weary of weldoing . And remember for your exampleing and incouragement , the good hand of God that was upon Nehemias when hee sought the wealth , prosperitie , and reedifying of Ierusalem , and what furtherance he found at the hands even of a heathen King , Nehem. 1. chapt . which should put you into a strong hope of good successe and gratious grants from our Christian King .