Well mette Eudoxus , The place of meeting is to be supposed at Venice . whence come you ?

I come from a place wherein I haue alwayes taken great pleasure : but whether walke you ?

I came forth my friende , for none other ocasion , but only to looke thée : for thou art not ignoraunt , how yll I may endure the want of thy company whome for the greatnesse of thy vertue , and the singular swéetnesse , of thy pleasant behauior , I haue alwayes dearely loued .

And I , suspecting no lesse than that whiche is hapned , made hast the sooner to come abroade , fearing that full hardly , thou wouldest else haue founde me , in the place where I was . But nowe , since thus by good fortune we are so well mette togither , determine I pray thée , with thy best aduice , what way we shall take , to walke for our pleasure , that in conference abrode we may debate of some matter , according to our accustomed manner .

Abyde a whyle Eudoxus , sée , this is good lucke .

What is that ?

Behold , where our olde friende Tales posteth hytherwardes apace , therefore , let vs stay for him a whyle , and according as he shall direct our iourney , so we wil determine to passe on togither , vnto some such place , as most conuenient shal seme vnto him for this purpose .

I like this motion well , he is now at hand , vse the matter therfore , I pray thée , in such sort , that he may be willing for company to accepte of the same .

Hem , Tales , whether walk you ? I wold haue thée my friend to vnderstand , that we haue purposely here expected thy comming , for this occasion only , that to what place thou art appointed to walke , we may beare thée company .

Certesse my friends , I déeme my selfe very farre vnworthy of this preheminence , but that I sée it procéedeth from the wonted fauoure you haue alwayes borne me . Therefore , without more adde , to the ende we maye a little recreate our myndes , whiche we are taughte to solace with intermission of studie , thereby the rather , that after some rest , they may become agayne more pregnant than before : I thynke it best ( if so it please you ) to enter this Gundu●o , and in the same to beholde all these places of pleasure , Gundulo is a little boate , which is vsed at Venice , to rowe aboute the Citie for 〈◊〉 . which as beautifull suburbes , are bordering about this noble Citie : wherein , we may familiarly talke and conferre , of what matter we list at our pleasure .

It liketh me well .

Let vs then determine , to lose no more time , but lette vs presentlye all agrée to take boate .

Holla , waterman , bring hither thy Vessell , and deuise I pray thée , to rowe vs conueniently héere abroade for our pleasure .

Now I desire Eudoxus to know , from what place thou wast then comming , when séeking for thée , thou sooner by chance didst méete me on the way , than I looked for .

Verily , I came at the instant ( my friend ) from the Ile of S. George the great , This Ilande standeth on the side of Venice . the which , as well for the pleasauntnesse of the place ( whose sea still moisting the soile , doth wash the same about ) as also , for the stately building thereof , is vndoubtedly among the rest of al these Iles here adioining , estéemed the fairest . Where , when from the care of my worldly affayres I finde any leysure , withdrawing me wholly from the common concourse and multitude of the people , both ofte and many times I bestowe my selfe ▪ to thinke vppon the rules and preceptes of Philosophie . For Solitarinesse is doubtlesse , a speciall friend of mine , as a Nurse , that dothe cherish and mainteyne all commendable studyes : yelding to such as do embrace hir , both ease and quietnesse . Besides , she cureth the weakenesse of the minde , all idle carefulnesse she driueth away , she auoydeth lust , and banisheth feare . The which , since by daily experience it commeth so to passe , you shal hardly ( I presume ) fynde one amongst a number , that hathe earnestly affected and fauoured Philosophy , but that he hathe rather delighted with few , than with many to be conuersant : In suche sorte , that diuers vtterly forsaking the dayly societie both of Townes and Cities , haue wholly in the ende betaken themselues to the swéete delighte and recreation of Solitarinesse : Whiche playnely may appeare by the saying of Flaccus , a Poet most excellent .

Which thing , we also vnderstand that the Emperoure Augustus did greately desire , who writing to the Senate said : that so long as he considered with himselfe of the quiet repose of Solitarinesse , he found his minde delighted with a great and singular pleasure . Besides ; howe many other , both graue and wyse men may we remember , that haue wished the same to haue falne to their haps : who restrained therof , either by the care of their peculiar affaires , or by the publique causes of the common welth , could neuer attaine to trie by proofe , what happinesse was conteined in the bosom of Solitarinesse . LY. I know ( my friend ) the place you speake of , to be no lesse by nature than by art , so rarely polished , that among . diuers the beutiful ornaments of this most excellent flourishing Citie , it may lawfully in my opinion be compared with the best . But since the occasion is already profered , of the disputation of Solitarinesse , I déeme it best ( if so it please you ) to touch this matter eare we leaue it , more fully .

Nothing for my parte may contente me more , than to heare some discourse and debatement thereof : neyther wil Tales , I knowe , disagrée from the same . Wherefore , I dare boldly presume , that to eache of vs you shall doe ( my friende ) a singular pleasure , if so you will endeuoure to set downe your opinion concerning this matter , not only , what you estéeme thereof youre selfe , but also what preceptes concerning the same , you thinke it néedefull to afoorde vnto vs .

Since by this I vnderstande it is then youre pleasure , to spend some time in the disputation of this question , that I may fully , and that at fewe words discharge the duetie and due regard of a friend , I wyll presently declare vnto you my mind what I thinke of the same . And to be playne , I do not a little Eudoxus disagrée , from thys opinon of ye●res : for whether you intend Solitarinesse to consist in that , that a man withdrawing himselfe from company , séeketh rather to liue in the voide and desolate places of the earth , and there , playing the Philosopher in the open wildernesse , doth séeme alone to contente hymselfe : or that you déeme , the substance thereof to remayne in the common societie of man , notwithstanding , to be conuersaunt but with few : I truely estéeme it , no way to pertayne to the duetie of a wise man , to whome it chiefly belongeth in all his actions , to haue speciall regarde to his end . For , it is not to be thoughte that the hygh and soueraigne God , dyd firste create man to the ende to lyue wholly to himselfe , neyther was he borne for hymselfe onely , but that of his birth , parte his Countrey as Plato sayth , and part his friendes are to challenge . Besydes , if so it were necessary for man to liue alone , then were it but néedelesse for hym to haue a wife , but otherwise it appeareth , that God knowing better our necessitie than we our selues , thought marriage a thing very néedefull to be prouided . Wherefore , assure youre selfe you shall commonly fynde , eyther fewe or none of those that are accompted wise , that wil rather séeme , to preferre Solitarinesse before societie . But of the other side many , that haue vtterly condemned that vnciuile kind of life , which ignoraunt people in the beginning of the world did brutishly leade , much after the manner of vnreasonable beastes . Among whome , there was neyther societie nor friendship maynteyned , no man liuing in the boundes of lawfull matrimony , no man certaine of his owne children , nor any law to distinguish the good from the euill mainteyned among them . What shoulde I say ? eache man then did carelesly raunge , and wander abrode in the desolate Wildernesse , hauing neyther dwelling nor place of abode . But when reason had after taughte them to associate themselues togyther , and that Moyses that mightie Captayne of the Iewes was also borne , by whome the eternall God gaue first the lawe to the line of his inheritance : from thence I say , the law makers and Philosophers , first taking their instruction , beganne to sette downe both manners and institutions of lyuing : And after , as Townes and Cities were dayly erected , so the people began to estéeme of Humanitie and to reuerence Religion , whereby in short space it came after to passe , that diuers addicted themselues to the fauor of Faith , and to the exercise of Iustice , and dyuers other to submit themselues to the yoke of obedience : so as by this time , each man did estéeme it a thyng belonging to his duetie , not onely to employ the best of his labour , but also to aduenture the losse of hys life , for the better maintenance of the common Wealth . From thence likewise both Solon and Lycurgus tooke firste their lighte , from whyche foundation of theyrs , the renowmed Graecians became so famous , for the due establishmente of their equal lawes . From whome , the Romaynes also did after deriue , their penal constitutions conteyned in their tables , by the which , they brought the people in all their actions , from thenceforth to become both profitable and honest : who though at first by the straungenesse thereof , they beganne to murmure and repine at suche bondage , yet after , being better contented with reason to heare & vnderstand the same , from wilde & vntamed creatures they brought them at last , to shew themselues both gentle & méeke . From hence the maiestie of their Empire , from hence the greatnesse of their dominions , from hence the multitude of their Magistrates , tooke first their beginning . But , that I may not too perticularly runne ouer these matters , if with diligence you search , you shal finde no goodnesse to remaine among the people , that hath not happened to spring from this fountayne of Societie . Yea , the sacred knot of friendship it selfe , than the which we haue nothing receiued more pleasant from the Goddes , nor of greater reuerence & estimation on the earth , tooke also hir original foundation from the ●ame . But what thinke you of this , aboue the rest O Tales ?

I am not ignorant my friends , that this question may sufficiently be debated on both sides , notwithstanding , since you demaund my opinion , I wil endeuour my self to declare you my mind what I thinke of the matter . It semeth therfore vnto me , that if a wise man , should only respect his priuate commoditie , or that he were specially addicted to his owne securitie , he ought doubtles in the behalfe , to choose to liue rather to himself than to others . But , if so he be perswaded , that nothing may be counted more honest , nothing for a mightie & noble personage more worthy , than to benefit as many as possible he may : he must vtterly then decline from Solitarinesse , & must earnestly séeke to be conuersant abroade , chiefly so long , as the necessitie of others shal so require the same . And according to the saying of Socrates , some with swéetnesse of oration , & some with example of pure & perfect life , he must labour to enduce to the reuerence of Vertue : knowing right well , that she hath néede of an instructer , to acquaint hir to the world , & that nothing doth more allure the minds of the people to estéeme of honestie , than the dayly custome & example of good men .

Wil you graunt , my friends ( ere we procéede any further ) that it may be possible for a litle quantity of gal , to make bitter a gret deale of hony : or y● one infected kernell , may be able to corrupt 〈◊〉 whole cluster of Grapes .

Why not Eudoxus ?

Wel said Eudoxus , now verily I then perceiue , it wil be thought néedeful ( as the case requireth ) that we first define what vertue is : And after ( if so it please you ) we wil further consider , whether Solitarinesse or societie may seme more conuenient for the obteining therof .

Why so Lysip. Wil this whole day suffise , as you take , it to performe the same ? Doubtles I dare hereof be bold to assure you , that looke how many there are , that haue seuerally defined of Vertue , so many in a manner are their seueral opinions concerning the same .

It shall suffise Eudoxus in this behalfe , if of those diuers definitions of theirs , we repeate some two or thrée of the most approoued . Let Tales therefore , take in hande the dealyng of this matter for vs both .

Thereof would I be very glad , wherefore at this our earnest request , I pray thée O Tales to accept of the same .

I am afrayde my friends , least you heape on me a greater charge , than eyther in my power remaineth to performe , or may agrée with my desire , considering how little I haue bin trayned as yet , in the grounded knowledge of the liberall Sciences : so that in a matter of importance so greate , it behoueth me rather to hold my peace than to speake . For , what learning at all do you perceyue in me ? or what witte ? that I may worthily séeme on the suddayne to deale in a case so difficulte and of suche weight , as requireth of it selfe , no small skill and practise to be looked for in him that should meddle with the same . Verely my friendes , of all those causes that are handled in Philosophy , there is no one thing more grauely vttered , or with a greater maiestie . Wherefore , this ought rather ( if I may iudge ) to be youre charge and duetie , who in the studie of Philosophy , and of all other knowledge , haue profit ably spente the greatest parte of your age .

Go to Tales , and despaire not with thy selfe of thy owne habilitie , eyther to defyne or to dispute of Vertue , for as much , as the ornaments therof by the iudgement of all men , do greately appeare in thée : In ●uche sorte , as if the Gods had pleased to appoint thée to haue bin borne in the time when Socrates and Plato did liue , there woulde haue appeared vnto them no other Phaedrus or Alcibiades than they selfe , in respect of thy greate and singular towardnesse giuen thée by nature . Wherefore , persuade thy selfe my friende , that for thy knowledge , thou arte able to debate , and that exactly , of the worthinesse thereof , since by the gift of God , thou hast obteined to haue hir , the ruler and directer , of thy florishing life .

Thus it is to offer violence , neither dothe it oughte auayle by what reason you perswade me , since playnely you compell me : for , to gainesay the earnest request of my friends , ( chiefly in a matter of honestie ) as it may séeme a thing vngratefull , so is it vnreasonable . Diuers therefore debating of Vertue , béeyng diuers of opinion among themselues , haue diuersly spoken . But Plato in his Booke entituled Menon , where questioning of many things ( as his manner was ) he hathe expressed in order the seuerall opinions of diuers writers , and with excellent reasons hath confuted them all , The first definition of VERTVE . séemeth verily to define , That Vertue is nothing else than goodnesse it selfe . But what that goodnesse is , and where it doth remaine , there haue bin héeretofore , and are still , depending manye controuersies among the Philosophers . The Stoickes did suppose the same , to remaine in Vertue . The Epicures did estéeme it , to consist in Pleasure , as those that thought it impossible to separate Pleasure from Vertue , nor any man to liue honestly that liued not pleasauntly , and againe , no man to liue pleasauntly that liued not honestly . The Peripatetikes were of opinion , that there were thrée kindes of goodnesse , that is to say , of the Minde , of the Body , and of Fortune . The goodes of the minde they thought to be those things that remaine in aduice , and in the excellencie of witte , as Prudence , Iustice , Fortitude , and Modestie . Of the body , those things whiche nature hath gyuen profitable to the body , as Swiftnesse , Force , Personage , and Health . Of Fortune , those things which by lotte or happie chaunce do prosperously befall , as Birth , Education , Riches , Authoritie , Possessions , Friendes , and such like . But , for honesties sake we will in this place omitte the opinion of the Cinicke secte , as those that liued no lesse like Dogges than they spake , and will agayne returne to the triple destinction of Goodnesse : wherein , whatsouer shall be sayd of Goodnesse , the same you must also intend to be spok● of Vertue . For , if Vertue may rightly be termed goodnesse , no lesse may goodnesse as rightely also be called Vertue : since by the rule of Logike , the definition , and the thing defyned , may lawfully be conuerted . Nowe therefore , let vs farther consider what these former Philosophers did properly accounte this goodnesse to be , or in what actions they placed the same ? Wherin , I do many times with Cicero call in question the wisedome of those learned men , who thought , the weake and chaungeable gifts of the body , That goodnesse doth not consist in the giftes of the body , nor of Fortune . and also of Fortune , worthy only in speach the name of goodnesse , when in very déede , they were themselues farre otherwise of opinion , concerning the intent and meaning of the same : In somuche as Epicurus himselfe , who referred all goodnesse vnto pleasure , when he was vexed & disturbed with hys greatest griefe , behaued hymselfe both stoutely & boldly : Saying , when the stopping of his vrine , & the incredible griefe of his belly exulcerated , did pitifully torment him , O , how happily do I endure this last , The proofe of the first part of this argument . and ending day of mine . For as diuers & sundry times we may sée , a great and mightie personage take his beginning from base and lowe parentage , so may we also as ofte behold a stout and valiaunt mind shrowded vnder a body , both weake , deformed , & vnhealthful : And therfore , since nature can daily make proofe vnto vs , that a noble & vertuous minde may possible lie hid vnder each kind of forme , the deformitie of the body ought not to embase the estimation of the mind , but the beautie of the mind ought rather to adorne the feature of the body . Neither is it to be thought , the olde men , bycause the strength of their bodyes is decayd , are therefore to be worse estéemed than yong men , since it is manifest that the greatest exploites are not alwayes brought to passe , by strength , swiftnesse , or agilitie of body , but rather by counsell , authoritie , and iudgement , wherein olde men are most experienced . The whiche , if any man by contention wil seme to denie , what other thing ( I pray you ) may there follow therof , but that Bulles , Lions , Elephants , & such other beasts may also be said to be better than men , bicause they are stronger : which no man I thinke dare venture to affirme , vnlesse some such as desireth to be taken & accounted for a foole . For albeit , I confesse that nature hath made man vnarmed , yet notwithstanding , she hath giuen him two things especially aboue the rest , wherwith to defend his body from the harme of such as are stronger than himselfe , that is to say , Reason and Societie . But let vs leaue to speake of beasts , & let vs returne to men themselues , who of body haue bin passing strong . What then I pray you shall we say of ●iphaeus , Briareus , and diuers other Giants ? What of Milo ? who is said to haue passed the whole race of Olimpia , with aliue Oxe on his shoulders , neuer taking his breth by the way . What of Antheus and Hercules ? shall we say that such men are therfore better than those , who by force of their witte , or by any other meanes , haue likewise performed dyuers notable exploites . Let vs for the purpose consider , what thing hath profited most the Romaine Empire in the time of their daunger : whether the great foresight of Marcus Tullius , by the which he found out the dissention of the people , & so preserued the libertie of his countrey , from the secret harme of rebellious Citizens : or the notable triumphs of C. Marius & Furius Camillus , with the famous & victorious prises , which by force of armes they broght from forrain Countreys . What would it ( I pray you ) haue profited that noble Empire , to haue subdued the whole circuit of the world , if the like dissention had befalne them at home , whiche Horace lamenteth in his time to haue happened , saying : By ciuile warre , now to decay , another age is led : And Rome hir ruine , hath by such , as she hirselfe hath bred . Whom neither might their neighbors nere , the Martians so subdue : Nor fierce Porsenaes Trurian bande , such cause of griefe renue . No Capua spight , no seruile host , of Spartacus assayle : No Switser with his vile mishap , in new attemptes preuayle .

The common wealthe being therefore by him thus preserued from danger , full worthyly in my opinion was he accounted ( as by the mouth of all men he was called ) the father of his Countrey , wherevpon , taking great comfort at that time in him selfe , he vttered thys saying .

This was the cause , why Agamemnon that mightie Captaine of the Grecians , did neuer wish to haue had in his companie , tenne the like of A●x but of Nestors notwithstanding he wished so many , from whose tong as Homer sayth , there procéeded spéech more swéet than any hony : which if it might haue happened , he woulde not haue doubted but that Troy shoulde sone haue bene destroyed . Whereby it appeareth , that those auntient warriours had alwayes more affiance in the valor of the minde , than of the body , and not vnworthily ( as I take it ) since oftentymes it hath happened , that they them selues with a very few souldiers , haue vtterly ouerthrowen a gret & mightie army , yea rather , by the singular knowledge and policie of the mind , than by force of armes , or sway of men : whereby , they haue not only kept their Countreys frée from the daunger of their enimies , but therevnto haue annexed both Kingdomes and Empyres . And that it is so , Leonides King of the Spartanes may very well testifie , who , when he made to his Souldyers that singular oration , by the whiche he dyd encourage them boldly to giue the onset on that greate and mightie armye of Xerxes , saying : My Souldiers and companyons , let vs fully determine to make such a dinner this day in the field , as though we shoulde suppe togither this night , in the very lappe and intrayles of the earth : he ( I say ) with foure thousande Souldyers at that time and no more , dyd victoriously vanquishe that vnnumerable host of the Persians , with whose nauie the whole sea was cleane couered ouer at their arriuall into Greece . But , what also shall we say of those two famous Souldyers , C. and P. Scipio ? who estéeming it a thing both honorable and manly , to die in the defence of their Countrey , did thinke it necessary to stoppe the comming of the Carthaginians , with the apparaunt daunger of their owne bodyes . What of Horatius Cocles , who alone did defend the entraunce of a narrow bridge , which lay vpon the riuer of Tiber , commaunding the whyle , the hynder parte thereof to be taken away , that his enimies mighte haue no passage on the same ? What of Gedion , who with thrée hundreth Souldiers , being armed only with heauenly power , did miraculously ouercome many thousand Philistians ? What of Dauid himselfe ▪ who being vnarnmed , with a sting only and a stone , did manfully ouerthrowe the great Golias , who both , for armour and strength , was there well appoynted as a Champion to fighte , and proude●y did challenge the people of God ? Shall we rather say , that all these haue thus deserued theyr immortall fame and estimation in the world , for the greatenesse of their strength , or for the singularitie of their Vertue ?

What of that Tales ? Do you therefore thinke , that the strength of the body is not good ?

Yea truely .

Is it then to be déemed euill ?

Not so neyther . LISIP. If you déeme that strength be neyther good nor euil , what is it then ?

We call ( my friend ) all such like ornaments , whether they bée giftes of Nature , or of Fortune , indifferent things , which are thought to be common not onely vnto men , but also vnto beastes : and that which may bée counted common , as well vnto them as vnto vs , may verily vnto vs be no way déemed good . For if so it were good , neyther might beasts obtaine the same , nor euill men haue the vse thereof : or if they had , yet could they by no meanes vse it to their owne harme : but by course it woulde followe , that loke howe far forth they were furnished with such like qualities , so much the more they would therby become much better than others , since goodnesse it selfe is of this nature , that it maketh the possessor thereof farre much the better . But since otherwise it happeneth , that those which for the most part are accounted strongest , are therwithall most commonly more hurtefull than others , what may we therof thinke ? May goodnesse be noisome to any man ? or as with Cicero we may say , May any man in the abundance of his goodnesse be deemed euil himselfe ? nay verily , we sée that often all suche like things , both lewde and wicked persons possesse them , and therwithall are offensiue vnto those that are good . In my opinion therefore ( as I haue said before ) that whiche either maye hurt vs , or that whiche is common to euill persons and wilde beasts togither with vs , may not any way possibly be déemed good vnto vs .

Thou sayest my friend both well & truely in this behalfe , but since by this reason it appeareth , the good men ought only to be reuerenced for their goodnesse , there is yet another error , The proofe of the seconde part of the argument before . but from whence it procéedeth I know not , the riche men are in all places honored , notwithstanding they be euil men , and pore men despised although they be good men . And yet it is not vnknowen vnto vs that it is giuen to all men to be for the most part of a better iudgement in aduersitie than in prosperitie : And therefore it is daily séene , that miserable and wretched people are alwayes more forwarde to serue and worship God , than those that are happie : For prosperitie is a thing , that withdrawes vs from goodnesse .

Thou art ignorant it séemeth Eudoxus , that for the most part we value each thing according to opinion , and not vnto nature : we first beleue before we giue iudgement . Neither for any other occasion are we rather thought to be confirmed in our naughtinesse , than for bycause , he that flatters vs in our euil doings , & is a partie to the same , is therby a prouoker of al such things in the which we offend . And commonly to our euil demeanure , this also is annexed , that when we offende , it suffiseth vs not to offend , to that only destruction of one , but that it greatly delighteth vs , to impart our naughtinesse with many , if so by any meanes , we may heape the same vpon the heds of our neighbors . And herevpon it riseth , that ●ur eyes béeyng dazeled with the brightnesse of gold , we oft times repete from the botome of our heartes , this saying of Euripides , So riche I may be thought , how yll , no care at all I take : If riche he be , men aske , if good , no men enquirie make . Not whence , nor wherefore , asked is , but what he hath to lende : Eche man esteemed is no more , than as he may dispende . What were vnfit for vs to haue , dost aske ? nothing at all : In wealth I wish to liue , if not , for present death I call . Who so doth dye , he well doth dye , that makes a welthy ende : This money is the greatest good , that God to man may sende . Than which , ne may thy mothers loue , so much thy minde delight : Ne loue of father , nor of child , is halfe ●o deere in sight . No not the loue , of comely shape , that in thy face doth stay : Of men beneath , and Gods aboue , she beares the only sway .

So therefore ( I say ) it delighteth vs to liue , as betwéene vs and beastes there may be found no difference , but only that of spéeche we enioy the libertie whiche wholly they wante . To whome if like libertie were also graunted , if of them thou wouldest then demaund , what thing aboue the rest they chiefly desire , what other aunswere at all would they make , but only to enioy that whiche best delighteth their appetites , whyche bringeth most pleasure and delectation to their senses , and all this for no other reason , than for bycause they account the plesure of the body their chiefest felicitie . Therefore , let it be farthest off from your opinion my friendes , that Riches are to bée déemed good , the rather , since Democritus , Crates , and dyuers other héeretofore haue forsaken their wealth , to the ende , that being both bare and without encombance , they mighte so followe Vertue the better , who of hir selfe is both single and bare , and consisteth not in the vncertentie of riches , made subiect to forren inuasion , but is otherwise established , in perfecte firmenesse and stabilitie , which Lucilius considering , saith : That is not thine , which Fortune thine , by chaunce hath made to bee : What wishing brings , may wel betide another , as to thee .