The Christian against the Iesuite Wherein the secrete or namelesse writer of a pernitious booke, intituled A discouerie of I. Nicols minister &c. priuily printed, couertly cast abrod, and secretely solde, is not only iustly reprooued: but also a booke, dedicated to the Queenes Maiestie, called A persuasion from papistrie, therein derided and falsified, is defended by Thomas Lupton the authour thereof. Reade with aduisement, and iudge vprightly: and be affectioned only to truth. Seene and allowed.

The Christian against the Iesuite .

The first part .

FOrasmuch as you an vnknowen Iesuite I. part . and without name , haue derided or rather slaundered a booke by mee lately framed and published , with my name vnto it , called A persuasion from Papistrie , dedicated and exhibited to the Queenes Maiestie : which you haue done in your booke priuily printed and couertly cast abroade in corners , entituled : A discouerie of I. Nicols Minister , misreported a Iesuite , &c.

A doubt not but heerein so to defend the same , that it shall bee to your reproch and discredit , yea and also to your shame ( if you will bee ashamed ) to lye or write against the manifest truth . But you , and they of your sect haue put on such vnshamefast faces , that nothing can make you blush . And if I knowe your name aswell as your noughtie nature , your person aswell as your peeuish profession , and your resting place , as well as your ridiculous religion : I would not only haue named you herein , but also would haue sent you this answere by some trustie messenger . But seeing you haue in your worthie worke , neither vttered your name , nor the place where you dwell : ( whereby I must needes coniecture that either you looke for no answere , or 〈◊〉 not to be answered , or thinke it not worth the answering , ) Therefore , as it was written at Athens vnto the vnknowen God , Acts. 17. so must I now bee inforced to write vnto the vnknowen Iesuite . Being very doubtfull how to conuey this your vndesired or vnlooked for answere vnto you , for that you haue neither name nor dwelling place .

If I shoulde direct it to no body , dwelling no where , ( which is the fittest place for a namelesse person to dwell in ) I shoulde 〈◊〉 or neuer get any to conuey the same vnto you . But I comfort my selfe with this one thing , though in your said discouery you haue couered your name , that neither her Maiestie , her counsell , nor diuers other that woulde gladly conferre with you , can tell whither to sende vnto you ; yet your secrete 〈◊〉 of your sect ( I hope ) knowe you well enough , and where you are resident . 〈◊〉 though theeues by all meanes possibly hide them selues for feare to bee taken : yet theeues and purloyners of their owne trade , know well enough where to haue them . Wherby I am in good hope that one or other of your secrete friendes will helpe to conuey it vnto you : though you were out of Englande , as I 〈◊〉 rather you are within the Realme in some one corner or other . Not doubting but that you that are the namelesse Authour of this discouerie , will shortly be discouered your selfe : ( if you be not already ) as some of your fellowes haue beene of late , that thought themselues so safely couered , that they hoped , not so sone to be discouered , whereby your name may be knowne : vnlesse you chaunge your name with your religion , as your holy father doth when hee commeth to be Pope .

The Prophetes , Christes Apostles , and many learned Martyres and holy men , did set their names to their workes and writings : which I thinke you woulde haue done if you had been of their religion . But you both doubting your religion , and fearing to be found out and punished if you were knowne , wrought very circumspectly to conceale your name : yea and if it were reproued , yet thereby small disprayse or rebuke coulde happen to you , because you are nameles ( but I thinke not altogether shamelesse , for that I suppose the shame of your cause hath made you to couer your name . ) Surely you deale very discourteously with mee to haue me at such aduantage , for you deride and slaunder my worke without confuting , whereby vndeserued I may 〈◊〉 reproch of some that know mee : But if I 〈◊〉 your booke , you can receiue no rebuke thereby of suche as knowe you , though you deserue the same .

Hee may bee called very well a 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 one that 〈◊〉 strusteth his owne strength , that standeth priuily in a darke corner , and 〈◊〉 a man , and so runneth away , whereby it cannot bee knowen who wounded him : In this sort you haue dealt with thee because I am named and knowne , and you namelesse , and ( therfore in this respect ) vnknowne . And also hereby M. Nicols , I and other are in greater daunger then is before mentioned , for wee may be in doubt , by you 〈◊〉 some of your sect , to bee priuilie stabde in with a daggar , dispatche with a dagge , or otherwise priuily killed or murthered : for they that will not 〈◊〉 to kill 〈◊〉 verie , friendes and of their owne religion , yea and that in prison from whence they coulde not 〈◊〉 : ( as Sherwood did of late a stout souldiar of the Popes ) it is not like they will 〈◊〉 to kill the professours of Gods word , whom they mortally hate and that know them not , being at libertie , whereby they vnknowne , may hope to escape . But if you shoulde goe about thus to vse vs , yet wee doubt not but that God would as well preserue vs , as the Diuell shoulde procure you .

If you had perused my booke as circumspectly and indifferently , as you read it disdainfully and contemptuously , and if you had been as much addicted to truth , as you were bent to error : you would rather haue thankt me than taunted me , esteemed me than enuied mee , & not to haue charged me with lyes that haue vttered the truth .

If my booke be so vaine as you vaunte , and so vntrue as you terme it : then belike this your booke ( cleane repugnant to it ) is the Lanterne of learning , the touche stone of truth , and the welspring of wit . But vntill I bee better resolued that mine is so false as you feyne , and yours so true as you troue : I will be so bold ( though somthing sleightly ) to write in the defence of my doings . And though to my reproch you haue written to other : to your discredite I haue written to your selfe . Being very sory that you haue vrged me vnto 〈◊〉 and also it pitieth mee that you imploy your wit so vainely , and your cunning in suche a cause . Great learning and wit will hardly defende a 〈◊〉 : But small 〈◊〉 with wisedome , will easily maintaine a truth :

And now for that you haue written your said booke chiefly against matter Nicols , I will leaue all that which you haue discouered to his 〈◊〉 & discreadite , for him selfe to answere : who is best able to approue his owne sayings , & to vnburthen himselfe of suche vntruthes , as it seemeth you charge him withall . Meaning briefly in order from the beginning of your boke , to repugne such of your sayings as I am able 〈◊〉 reproue : & also to defend mine owne booke , which you so maliciously haue staundered .

The title of your booke is ( as is before saide ) A discouerie of I. Nicols Minister , &c. I thinke by this your discouerie , you will bee discouered to your further discredit .

You haue named him minister , a name of reproche , with many of your sect , but a Minister of Gods worde , and of the holy Sacraments , haue beene and will bee , esteemed with the godly , aboue Papisticall Priestes , maintainers and mumblers of the Masse , that is most iniurious to the death of Christ . If Christe had thought it had beene a name of reproche , hee woulde not haue saide these wordes to his Disciples , It shall not bee so among you , but whosoeuer will Matth. 20. bee great among you , let him bee your Minister , &c. The Angels of God were ministers , for they ministred to Marke 1. Christe in the wildernesse . Also Christe himselfe came to minister , for thus he saith , for euen the sonne of man came Marke 10. not to bee ministred vnto , but to minister , &c. Mary Magdalene , and Mary the mother of Iames did minister Mark . 15. vnto Christe . It is no euill or hatefull name to bee the minister of Christe , ( vnlesse it bee euill to bee where Iohn . 12. Christe is . ) For Christe saieth , If any man minister vnto moe , let him followe mee , and where I am , there shall also my minister bee . The Apostles office and Actes . 1. function was great and holy , and yet Peter counted it a ministration . The Apostles called the preaching of the 〈◊〉 of God , that ministration of Gods word seying , we will giue our Acts. 6. selues continually to 〈◊〉 and to the ministration of the woorde . Here the Apostles disdeyned not to call themselues ministers of Gods woord . If a minister were such a reprochfull name as you and your sectaries woulde make it , Saint Marke woulde not haue taken that name vpon him : for hee was minister to Paul and Barnabas , for thus saith the text , Actes 13. And they had Iohn to their minister , ( which was Marke the Euangelist . )

The holyest priest of the Pope was neuer made Priest in such order as S. Paul was made a minister , for if the Pope haue made any , yet hee made them priestes on the earth : but Iesus Christ him selfe made S. Paule a minister , yea and that out of heauen , which S. Paule reporteth him selfe saying , I saw in the way a light from heauen , aboue the brightnesse Actes 23. of the sunne , shine round about me , and them which iourneyd with mee : when wee were all fallen to the earth , I heard a voyce speaking vnto mee , and saying in the Hebrewe tongue , Saul Saul , why persecutest thou mee ? it is harde for thee to kicke against the pricke . And I sayde who art thou Lorde ? And he said I am Iesus whom thou persecutest , but rise and stande vpon thy feete . For I haue appeared to thee for this purpose , to make thee a minister and a witnesse of those thinges which thou hast seene . Thus it is manifest that Iesus Christ him selfe out of heauen made S. Paule a minister .

When you can showe mee that any of your priestes haue been made priestes , by a better man and in a better place then S. Paul was made a minister , then I will esteeme your priestes aboue our ministers : but vntill that time , I will reuerence and esteeme our ministers of gods word , aboue your papisticall and Idolatrous priestes . And as it is manifest that , minister , was a comendable name and that it was 〈◊〉 in Christes and the Apostles time , so it appeareth that there were ministers in Chrysostomes time , and that it was 〈◊〉 thought to be a name of contempt : for S , Iohn 〈◊〉 Chrys. in act . Homil. 19. 〈◊〉 thus , Stat minister & communis minister & alta vose 〈◊〉 , &c. The minister and the common minister standeth vp and crieth out with a loude voyce , saying , keepe silence , and giue eare , after that the reader beginneth the prophesie of Esaie . Therefore if you weigh well the words before written concerning ministers , you haue no great occasion to dispise the name of a minister .

Misreported ( you say ) a lesuit as though you thinke him farre vnwoorthie of that name , if you do thinke him not worthie to be a Iesuite , no more doe I. for I take him to be the childe of God , and therefore not meete to be a Iesuite . And now for that it seemeth you are a Iesutte , because you would not haue Maister Nycols to bee of the Iesuites societie : ( which you take beelike to bee the best of all other ) I trust you will not be dispuleased that I name my selfe a Christian , wherewith I am right well contente . Assured that the true 〈◊〉 of a christian ( which was instituted by Christ almost Sextien hundreth yeres since ) shall alwaies be able to counterueyle the Superstition of a Iesuite , of which religion and societie , one Ignatius Layola a Spaniarde of Biskay , was the first founder , beginner , and captaine not fiftie yeeres since . And though you holde by the first name of our high friende and redeemer which is Iesus : yet wee holde by his seconde name which is Christ , much musing what Spirite should incense you , to leaue the auncient name of a Christian , which many thousandes of martyres and other Godly and learned men haue most defirously embraced , and gladlie reteined : whom God hath euer since Christes time preserued , prospered and blessed , amonges which I neuer hearde nor readde , that any of them were called Iesuites . Whereof you may see a manifest proofe ( if you will ) by the prosperitie of our prince , her godly gouernment , her peaceable raigne , and her woonderfull Successe , who is the chiefe defendresse of vs and this our Christian religion vnder God , for reade all the Cronicles with the conference of tunes , and you shall not finde that euer any prince or kingedome haue been more blessed . Which prosperitie and blessinges , God doth not commonly bestowe vpon heretikes , as you doe terme vs : for on his enemies and Heretyltes , ( I muste not saie Iesuites ) hee sendeth commonlye his Curses , plagues , warres , dearth , scarcitie , and trouble , with all kinde of euill successe : By which tokens & markes , you may knowe your selues , and howe that God doeth not fauour neither you nor your doinges . For what successe haue your practises ? your deuises are dayly reuealed , your conspiraces are preuented , your treasons are bewrayed , your power diminished , your Souldiers against her highnesse in Irelande discomfited and killed , your captaines and crewe discouered , and all your other doinges turne to your owne distruction . And that the same may more plainelie appeare , by the prosperouse successe of the true Christians on the one side , and the euill successe of Gods Enemies on the other side : I haue by infallible argumentes and examples plainelie prooued in my saide booke called A persuasion from papistrie that wee haue the true religion , and you the wronge : euerie indifferent reader whereof cannot choose but confesse . But I thinke I vnderstand wherefore you haue chosen rather the name of Iesus than the name of Christ , & that is this as I take it : For as much as your papisticall or Iesuiticall religion doth teach that you may be your owne Sauiours by your good workes , masses , the Popes pardons , and other such trumperie : yea and by whipping of your selues as shall appeare heereafter . I thinke therefore you haue chosen to bee called Iesuites of Iesus ( which signifeth a Sauiour ) the firste name of our redeemer Christe , importing thereby to bee your owne Sauiours . So that you shall not neede that he shal be your Sauiour , but your sesues : ( according as your Romish doctrine doth allowe ) But we , because wee are most sure that none can be our Sauiour , but Iesus Christ , therefore we are content to yeeld ouer that name of Iesus to him selfe , thinkinge our selues far vnworthie to be named thereby , and are most glad to be intitled by his second name Christ , which signifieth vnctus , that is annointed , and so to bee called Christians . Knowing that we can doe no good thing vnlesse wee bee spirituallye annoynted , comforted , and learned or inspired by the holy spirite of God the holy ghost . And yet it may be , that you name your selues Iesuites of Iesus the Sonne of Siracke , or of some other Iesus of your owne allowing : which may be the Pope , who by his owne lawes hath all power in heauen and earth , and by the sayings of Simon Begnius , is your sauiour , for he said to Pope Leo , Beholde the Lion is come of the tribe of Iuda Concil. later . sessi . 6. pag. 604. the roote of Dauid &c. O most blessed Leo , we haue looked for thee to be our Sauiour . Whereby ( if it be so , but you are woorse then madde if you beleue so ) he may be your Iesus , & so you his Iesuits ( as you are in deed . ) Or rather , I thinke you name your selues 〈◊〉 of your Iesus of bread that is of your owne making , which you say & sweare , is the very body , soule , and 〈◊〉 of Iesus Christ our sauiour . But because my sayde booke hath manifestly prooued that your Iesus of breade is but a plaine cake , whereby you are most falsely 〈◊〉 , therefore you deride and discommend it , that it should not be read . Perhaps you will say that you are no Iesuite , and therefore I misname you : in deede you haue not named your selfe to bee a Iesuite , wherefore I can not much blame you : for you that are loth to vtter your first Christian name and the olde ancient name of your progenitors and auncetors : it is no maruell though you hide your last name ( Iesuite , ) which is but lately sprung vp and counterfeite . But by all coniectures you are a Iesuite , partly for that you so mightily write in their defence and against him that hath reprooued them : and partly for that you haue florished your booke in the first front thereof with the name of Iesus , ( howesoeuer it is furnished with his worde ) which maketh a great showe outwardly howesoeuer it is inwardly . Which name of Iesus is so enuironed with fierie and clouen tongues , ( as it shoulde seeme ) that he hath a very harde heart , that will not beleeue , that euery Iesuite when he speaketh hath the holy ghost vpon him in the liknesse of fierie and clouen tongues , as the Apostles had soone after Christes ascention .

Truely this your papisticall and Iesuitical religion consisteth onely in name and outwarde vaine 〈◊〉 : which are bables to bring babes a bedde , but farre in sufficient to intise the wise to your wayes . You knowe that all they that say Math. 7. Lord Lord shall not enter into the kingdome of heauen , but they that do the will of God . There will some say to Christe , Math. 7. did not we worke myracles and cast out diuels in thy name ? but Christ will say vnto them , away yee workers of iniquitie for I knowe you not . If Christ will vse them thus that cast out diuels out of men in the name of Iesus : what will he doe to you that fill men full of diuels vnder the name of Iesus ? Bee no more blinde but see , it is not the naming of your selues by the name of Iesus , that wil make you blessed : but the embracing and following the doctrine of Iesus . Therefore esteeme not the crosse more then Christ : nor traditions more than trueth : lest Iesus Christ say vnto you , away ye workers of iniquitie for I knowe you not . You and wee haue profest in our Baptisine to forsake the diuell and all his woorkes , and to be true Christians the souldiers and seruants of christ , which we promised to performe : but you ( if you be a 〈◊〉 ) & the rest of that sect , haue broken the same in that you are become Iesuices , and haue forsaken the name and religion of a Christian , mentioned in the Gospell . And because you will bee sure not to returne backe againe to Christe , nor become Christians : you haue made a great othe , to obserue the orders , rules , and religion of the same , whiche is cleane contrarie to the lawe of Christ as shall appeare by the particular pointes of your othe . O what a wicked diuell is this that thus doth be witche you ? To keepe the lawes of Christ , & to continue in his seruice , you make but a 〈◊〉〈◊〉 which you breake euery day : but to continue in a 〈◊〉 deuised societie cleane contrary to the Gospel of Iesus Christ , ( which will leade you to hell ) you make a great 〈◊〉 , whiche nothing can cause you to breake .

And to the intente that euery one may see that reade this ( if they 〈◊〉 not wilfully blinde ) that the othe you take , is 〈◊〉 pugnaut and directly against the lawe of our sauiour 〈◊〉 Christ : I haue here 〈◊〉 the same , not onely to make 〈◊〉 ashamde to 〈◊〉 the name of Iesus , whose law you deeply sweare to resist , but also that the indifferent reader hereof may perfectly perceiue , that though outwardely you showe your selues by your name of Iesuites to be the followers & friends of Iesus : yet inwardly you are mortall enemies of Iesus , & that you are the seruauntes , or rather bondslaues of sathan . And this is the oth of you Iesuites that followeth .

I. N. doe firmely admit and imbrace the Apostolike The othe of the Iesuites . Bullapiiquarti super ordinatione & promotione doctorum , & aliorum cuiuscunque artis et facoltatis professorum . &c. and ecclesiastical traditions , and the rest of the obseruations and constitutions of the same Church . Also I doe admitte the holy Scripture , according vnto that sence , which the holy mother the Church hath and doth holde it , to whome it appertayneth to iudge of the true sence & interpretation of holye Scriptures , neither will I euer receiue or interpret it , but according to the vniforme consent of the fathers . I doe also professe that there are truely and properly seuen Sacramentes of the newe lawe , ordayned by Iesus Christ our Lorde , and for the saluation of mankinde , though not all to euery one necessarie , to wit , baptisme , confirmation , The Lordes Supper , penance , extreame vnction , order & matrimonie , and that they confer grace : And of them , baptisme , confirmation , & order , without sacralidge , may not be reiterated . I doe also receiue and admitte the receiued and allowed rytes of the Catholike Church in the solempne administration of all the afore saide Sacramentes . I do embrace and receiue all and euery the thinges ; which of originall sinne and iustification haue bin defined and decreed in the holy Synode of Trent . I professe in like sort , that in the Masse there is offered vnto God the true proper propiciatorie Sacrifice for quicke and dead : And that in the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist , there is truely , really and substantially , the body and blood together with the Soule and diuinitie of our Lorde Iesus Christ , and that there is a conuersion of the whole substance of bread into the body , & the whole substaunce of wine into blood , the which conuersion the catholik church calleth transubstanciation . I confesse withall , that vnder one onely kind whole & perfect Christ , and the true sacrament is receiued . I do constantly hold purgatorie , & that the soules there deteined , are relieued by the praiers of the faithful , & in like sort , that the saints raining together with Christ , are to be honoured & called vpon , & that they pray vnto God for vs , & that their relyques are to be worshipped . I do firmely auouch , that the images of Christ , & the mother of God alwaies a virgin , & also of other saints are to be had & retayned , & that we are to giue them due honour & worship . I do affirme , that the faculty of pardons hath been left by Christ in the church , & that the vse of them is very wholsome to christian people . I do acknowledge the holye Catholik & Apostolike Church of Rome , for the mother & mistresse of all churches . I doe promise & sweare obedience to the bishop of Rome , successour of blessed Peter , prince of the apostles , and vicar of Iesus Christ . I doe also vndoubtedly receiue & professe all that haue bin deliuered , defined and declared by the holy canons and generall councels , & specially by the holy Synode of Trent , and withall all thinges contrary & heresies whatsoeuer haue by the church bin condemned , reiected & accursed , I also do condemne , reiect , and accurse . This true catholike faith , without the which none can be saued , the which I do presently willingly professe , & truely hold , the same wholy & immaculate vnto the last gasp most conconstantly retaine , teach and preach asmuch as in me 〈◊〉 lie , I the same N. do promise , vow , and sweare , so God me helpe , and the holy Gospel s of God .

Are not you the true folowers & disciples of Iesus that makes this othe , or sweares to keepe & performe al these articles vntil your last gasp : O most mad & bewitched iesuits , what an oth & vowe do you make here : Iesus by whom you name your selues Iesuits ( that only can & must be our Sauiour ) you haue cleane lefte out , & neuer make mention in this your oth , of your obeying of him nor of his word : But of the Pope & of the Church of Rome , with pardons , reliques , worshipping of images & such other trumpery , that is quite contrary & repugnant to the law & commandement of Iesus Christ our redeemer . And in this your detestable oth you swere to continue & hold this damnable doctrine vntil your last gasp because ( as I said before ) , of set purpose you will not returne to Christ . But I 〈◊〉 God of his 〈◊〉 goodnesse ( if it be his blessed will ) 〈◊〉〈◊〉 your hearts with his holy spirite , that you 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 and dangerous way you are in and 〈◊〉〈◊〉 with 〈◊〉 from this your societie of Sathan ( as M. Nicols hath done ) wherby you may be of the true church of 〈◊〉 , & so to be that children of God . I need not go about to 〈◊〉 these your points of your Papistical religion , wherunto you are sworne : partly for that the simplest soule that can but reade , may see how contrary your profession is to Gods worde and the Gospell of Christ , but chiefly for that by many and profound learned men , by the holy scriptures , and by inuincible argumentes , they are confounded , vanquished and beaten downe , besides in my saide booke called ( A 〈◊〉 from papistrie ) the chiefest pointes of your religion , are prooued false , wicked , detestable , vaine , foolishe , childishe and rydiculous . But least mysilence should make you say , that I woulde haue confuted the particular poyntes of your said othe if I coulde , shortly therefore ( God willing ) I will set forth and publishe a briefe treatise touching the same whiche shall 〈◊〉〈◊〉 falsely you are foresworne by this your horrible othe , wherein ( through Gods helpe ) by your owne foure markes , and three properties , whiche you produce in your sayde discouerie , to proue your Churche of Rome to be the true Churche ; your saide Churche of Rome shal be plainely proued , to be none of Christes Church , but to bee the Synagogue of Sathan . And as you haue gone about , to discredite my sayde booke by this your discouery , so I will God willing therein disproue your said othe and you , by some paricular partes of my said book by you slandred , as it shall appeare manifestly to the indifferent reader . And 〈◊〉 that I haue discouered your detestable and horrible 〈◊〉 , whereby the meaning of this your discouerie may 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 I will proceede ( God willing ) to repugne some particular 〈◊〉 of your booke , and to defende mine 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 the rest for M. 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 ( as I saide before ) who chiefly knoweth his owne cause , and 〈◊〉 best able 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 .

The seconde part .

TO the intente you woulde haue your simple Reader 2. part . thinke , that you haue the name of Jesus in great reuerence ( though you dispise his doctrine ) you haue on the one side of your florished Jesus placed these words of Saint Paule , God hath exalted him , and giuen him a Phil. 2. ver. 9. name which is aboue all names . If you thinké that S. Paule ment these wordes on Jesus Christ ( as most certainly he did ) them why should you not 〈◊〉 that his doctrin is aboue all doctrines : It is a strange matter that you shoulde reuerence the name of Jesus , and detest and forsweare the doctrine of Jesus . Surely if a man detest a mans deedes or doctrine , I cannot thinke that hee doth loue or fauour his name : for hee that hateth a mans doings or doctrine , will haue no great lust to heare of his name . Nay the hearing of his name , will make him straight way to speake euill of his person . Therefore if you loue the name of Jesus , you will not sweare to renounce the doctrine of Jesus : but because you haue sworne to forsake the doctrine of Jesus , therfore ( say what you will ) you cannot loue the name of Jesus . Wherfore vnlesse you receiue the doctrine of Jesus , and beleeue only to bee saued by him , at your last gaspe , hee wil say to you at the last day ( though you tell him then that you are Jesuites and holde of his name ) away yee workes of iniquitie for I know you not .

The thirde parte .

ON the other side of this your florished name of Jesus , 3. part . you haue set these wordes of Saint 〈◊〉 in the Actes of the 〈◊〉 , whereby you would 〈◊〉 the people thinke , that all you doe , is by the 〈◊〉 of God : when ( God knoweth ) you 〈◊〉 all thing 〈◊〉 quite 〈◊〉 to the same , and sweares ( for state of 〈◊〉 ) that you will withstand the same vntill your last 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 are the wordes , There is no other name vnder heauen giuen Acts. 4. ver. 12. vnto men , wherein wee must bee saued . Saint Peter by these wordes sheweth him selfe to bee no good Procter for the Pope , though the Pope taketh him for his chiefe piller and Patron . Except Peter ment nothing by these wordes , or that they must haue none other sense then the Church of Rome will allow , ( for the scriptures by the saying of Cardinall Cusanus hath no right sense nor meaning , but that the Church of Rome doth allowe , and also by your meaning , or els you woulde not sweare so deepely to admit the holy Scripture according to that sense which your holy mother the Church , hath and doth holde . ) And so you may make the sense and meaning thereof to fall out thus , There is none other name vnder heauen giuen vnto men wherby we must bee saued : that is to say , There is no saluation without the Churche of Rome , or that none can bee saued without the catholike faith of the Church of Rome : If this were Peters meaning , or that the giuing of the sense thereof is referd to the Church of Rome , whereby to expound them thus or which way they list : Then it is like this name of Jesus will doe you Jesuites great pleasure , or els if Saint Peter ment thus by the same wordes , or that the Church of Rome hath power to expounde them thus , There is none other name vnder heauen giuen vnto men , 〈◊〉 in wee must bee saued : that is to say , if wee carry or weare vpon vs the name of Jesus , either printed , written , grauen , sowed , or embroidered , or otherwise 〈◊〉 , then I will not say , but that the bare name of Jesus woulde saue both Jesuits and Jewes , for then , Jesuits , Jewes , Turkes , Sarrizins , Heathen , Infidels , and all other be they neuer so wicked may haue the name of Jesus sowed or set on their garments , and then they shoulde bee safe , & so saued by the name of Jesus . Or els if Peters or the Popes meaning bee , that the naming of Jesus ( without any other thing ) wil saue vs , then I will not say , but that the only naming of Jesus will saue both Jesuites , Jewes , Gentiles , yea and Diuels also : for the Diuels that possessed the two men , to whom Christe gaue leaue to goe into the heerde of Swine , did name Jesus , saying , O Iesu thou sonne of God , &c. And therefore Math. 〈◊〉 . if naming of Jesus will serue the turne , then Diuels and all may be saued . But it is not the setting of the name of Jesus florished as it were with fierie tongues in your bookes , nor the textes of scripture magnifying the name of Jesus , nor the wearing on you the name of Jesus in your Agnus deis , or your gospels , or other such like , nor the fayned naming of Jesus : but the following of the doctrine of 〈◊〉 and beleeuing only in Jesus . For so did the Pharisees and the Saduces , bragge and boast of Abraham as you doe of Jesus : yet for all that holy John Baptist coulde not abide them , but called them generation of vipers , saying , O generation of Math. 3. vipers , who hath taught you to flee the vengeaunce to come ? ( as though they coulde not flee from it , because they were not taught by Christe , or that they thought to flee from it by the traditions of men , not by the worde of God ) Doe therefore ( saith hee ) the fruites of repentance , and thinke not in your selues , wee haue Abraham to our father , &c. Therefore boast not nor bragge too much of the name of Jesus , as the Pharisees and Saduces did of Abraham , neither follow the traditions of the Churche of Rome , as they did the traditions of their elders : But follow the doctrine of Jesus , and beleeue only in Jesus . For according to Christes wordes , Not all they that say Jesus Math. 7. Jesus shall enter into the kingdome of heauen : but they that doe the will of Jesus , which is in heauen . Whose will can neuer bee doone , vnlesse wee heare or reade the last will of Jesus , which is the holy Gospell .

The fourth part .

AND vnder the name of Jesus , you haue placed these 4. part . wordes of the 〈◊〉 . of Salomon . A lying witnes shall haue an euil end . As though your Jesuitical 〈◊〉 were nothing but truth , & that professors therof did neuer make lie : and as though our religion were altogether false , and in the professours thereof were nothing but falsehood . But if euill endes are speciall markes ( according to Salomon ) of lying witnesses : then you that are Iesuites haue no great cause to boast that you are true witnesses .

And nowe for that you graunt that a lying witnesse hath an euill ende , then they that haue euill endes are not like to bee true witnesses : and so by this meanes , Sherwood and Ducket that dyed so dangerously and had so euill an end of late ( though they professed your Romishe religion and did holde on the Pope ) were lying witnesses . And seeing they were lying witnesses , the thing they witnessed was a lye , and so , by your owne sayings in the first front of your boke of this your discouerie , you haue discouered your Romish religion , which they witnessed at their last gaspe to bee a lye . And as you haue proued here by Salomon that Sherwood and Ducket were lying witnesses by their euill ende : So Persuas . from papistrie . I haue shewed in my saide booke called , A persuasion from papistrie : Diuers of your Romish religion that had euill Pag. 289. 〈◊〉 , ( because they were lying witnesses ) but least you should forget them , I will put you in remembrance of some of them . Iohn de Roma a professour of your Romishe religion , an enemie to the Gospel , and a great 〈◊〉 therof , ( for hee filled bootes with boyling grease , and so put them on the Gospellers legges , tying them backward to a forme with their legges hauging downe ouer a small fier to torment them the more , and so examined them , ) ( through the vengeance of God ) rotted and swarmed full of vermine , not able to abide his owne smell , so that his flesh fell away from his bones by peecemeale , whose end and death was most horrible and euill , and therefore by your owne iudgement , hee was a lying witnesse .

The Commendator of Saint Anthonie of Vienna an Pag. 291. enemie to the Gospell , & one of 〈◊〉 holy Romish Church , that gaue sentence of condenmation on a true professour of the Gospell called 〈◊〉 , dyed 〈◊〉 and had an 〈◊〉 ende , and therefore according to your owne sentence hee was a lying witnesse .

Thomas Arundale Archbishop of Cantorburie , a principall Pag. 〈◊〉 . member of your Romishe Church , that condemned the Lorde Cobham a true professour of the Gospell , his tongue did so swell , that hee coulde swallow no meate , and so dyed and had an euill end , and therefore by your owne doome hee was a lying witnesse .

Also a certaine Bishop of Hungarie a mightie mainteiner Pag. 〈◊〉 . of your popish religion , and a false witnesse against the Gospell , did runne about starke madde , and rauing , died miserably , and so he had an euill ende , and therefor he was a lying witnesse .

Moreouer one Berrie the Uicar of Aylsham a Comissarie and a champion of your Church , and a cruell persecutor Pag. 292. of the professours and witnesses of Gods worde , fell downe sodenly to the ground with a 〈◊〉 grone , and neuer 〈◊〉 after , neither shewed any token of repentance , and so hee had an euill ende , and therefore by your owne saying hee was a lying witnesse .

A great sort of suche are described at large in the latter end of my said boke , wherby it doth most manifestly appeare that the said professors of your Romish religion were false witnesses , because they had an euill ende . And so your romishe doctrine is false , because the professours , mainteiners and defenders are lying witnesses . And nowe as lying witnesses are tryed by their euill endes : so , true witnesses are knowne by their good endes . And because the pure & perfect professors of Gods worde ( our religion ) haue good endes , therefore they are true witnesses . And as I haue prooued a great fort of your Romishe religion by my saide booke , to bee false and lying witnesses because of their euill endes : so haue I in the latter ende of the saide booke , proued diuers professours of this our religion to bee true witnesses , for that they had good endes . For they that suffered for the Gospell , were in their tormentes most patient and constant , whom God did myraculously ayde , helpe and strengthen vntill the yeelding vp of their spirite . Which if you had read as aduisedly , as I feare you omitted purposely : you should soone haue spied , them of your religion to be lying witnesses by their euil ends , and them of our religion to be true witnesses , by their good ends .

If you would sticke to this saying of Salomon produced by you , and consider the most wicked & dangerous deathes , and horrible , desperate and euill ends of your sectaries and professours of your religion : you would then say that the 〈◊〉 & Papists are lying witnesses . Therefore haue a better consideration of the same wordes of Salomon : and then you shall plainly perceaue that you are wounded with your owne arrowe , and that you haue shot your selues thorow with Salomons shafte .

The 〈◊〉 parte .

VNder the saide sentence of the Prouerbes of Salomon , 5. part . you haue placed these wordes of Saint Barnard , An non ex hac odiosa impudentia , pullulabit mox Bernard . ser. 4.2 . in Can. impenitentia mater desperationis ? Will not impenitencie the mother of desperation , shortly breede or spring of this hatefull impudencie ? Hereby you woulde haue your Readers beleeue , that the professours of the Gospell and they that speake or write against you in the defence thereof , are so without all shame , that it will bring them shortly to impenitencie and then to desperation . I woulde the lesse blame you for bringing this text of S. Barnarde against vs , if you coulde shewe but one of the earnest professours , followers , and continuers of the Gospell , that dyed impenitently & desperatly , as I haue alleadged a great sort ( in my saide booke by you slaundered ) and can do many mo , of your Romish and Papisticall religion that haue died most horribly , wickedly and desperately . But because you are not able to doe it , you seeke by one that is of more credit than your selfe , to discredite vs . But as you shoote without his consent , so you shoote his shaft heere at a wrong marke : for he shooteth not this arrowe at vs , nay he shooteth it at you . For if you Jesuites and Papistes bee impudent lying witnesses against the manifest truth of the Gospell , and haue an euill end , dying impenitently and desperatly : Then doeth not the text shew plainely , that S. Barnard hath hit you , and not touched vs : Yes I thinke . And that it may appeare whether this text of S. Barnarde doth hit your selues or not ( though you shoote it at vs ) I wil here briefly note some examples of the impenitent and desperate deathes of some of the champions of your Romishe Church , which I haue produced in my saide booke concerning the same .

The Lord of Reuest chiefe president of the Parliament Persuas . from papistrie . of Aiax being a great professor and mainteiner of the popes religion , and there withall a cruell persecutor of the Gospellers : Pag. 290. was stricken with a horrible furie and madnesse , and so he dyed in his rage & furie . Whereby it appeareth that he was impudent & so impenitent , & therby brought to desperation .

One Morgan Bishop of S. Dauids in Queene Maries Pag. 293. time , a great post of your popish Church , & that condemned Bishop Farrare , whereby he was burned for professing the gospel : was soone after so stricken by the power of God , that his meat would not go down , but rise & pick vp againe , somtimes at his mouth , somtime blowne out at his nose , most horrible to behold , & so he continued vntill his death . Wherby it is more like that hee was impenitent , & thereby brought to desperation .

A Suffragane of Douer in Q. Maries time , a champion Pag. 294. of your Romish Church , did breake his neck falling downe a payre of stayres , in the Cardinals chamber at Grenewitch , immediatly after he had receiued the Cardinals blessing , which sheweth that he rather died impenitently & desperatly , for all he had the Cardinals blessing .

One Clarke a mightie mainteiner of your religion , & an Pag. 296. open enemie to the gospel & to all the godly preachers thereof in king Edwards daies , hanged himself in the towre of London : which sheweth rather that hee was impenitent and thereby brought to desperation .

The great and notable Papist called trolling Smith , fell Pag. 296. downe sodenly in the streete & dyed : which argueth rather the 〈◊〉 was an impenitent & a desperate Papist .

And also one Rockwood a perfect Papist , and the chiefe Pag. 298. procurer of the great trouble of certaine godly men in Callys for this our religion , when he was at the point of death , staring and raging , cryed , and saide that hee was vtterly damned . And he would not aske God mercy , but brayed and cryed out , all too late , all too late : whereby it appeareth that hee was an impudent Papist , which brought to impenite 〈◊〉 , and so to die desperately .

These with diuers moe of your Romish religion that had such euill ends , and dyed impenitently and desperately , haue I set foorth in the latter ende of my saide booke , whereby you and your sect may see ( if yee will see ) that Saint 〈◊〉 pickt not this dart at vs but at you : And therefore more like a vaine bragger , than a skilfull fighter , with the weapon you thought to hurte vs , you haue wounded your selfe . ( As you and your fellowes haue alwayes doone yet , yea and alwaies shal , doe and say what you can ) . It is a 〈◊〉 matter to make children and fooles beleeue , that a gloworme will burne them : so you may easily persuade the simple people , that this and such like textes , that you florish your bookes withall , will quite ouerthrowe vs . But as the gloworme is not 〈◊〉 though it shine bright , and therefore cannot burne them that touche it : so your textes you bring against vs ( when they are throughly rypt and scande , though they seeme neuer so great and strong ) can neither hurte vs nor stirre vs . Nay you destroy your owne doctrine , with your owne dartes .

The sixte part .

IN the beginning of your saide Discouerie you say thus 〈◊〉 . part . to the indifferent Reader , It is one point among other Discouerie . Pag. 3. of very bare brokers , to extoll immoderatly very base wares , &c. If extollers , of very base wares are very bare brokers , 〈◊〉 by this your owne saying , you Iesuites and Papistes are not only the 〈◊〉 , but also the baddest and falsest brokers of all other : for you 〈◊〉 Masses , and say they will saue vs , you preferre the Popes pardons , and pronounce them as precious , you praise your romishe relickes , and affirme they will relieue vs , and also that your oyle will worke our saluation : with diuers other of the Popes wares which you extoll to be so excellent and pure , that none other wares on the earth but they , can worke the like wonders .

But for that Gods woorde doth not warrant these your wares , neyther the prophetes doe proclame them , neyther Christ doth commaunde them , nor the Apostles doe allowe them , nor the Euangelistes did once 〈◊〉 them : Therefore howsoeuer you Iesuites doe extoll them , we christians must needes dispise them . And nowe as these your popish wares are prooued base and badde wares , because they are neither commaunded , nor commended by Christ : so you must needs 〈◊〉 but very bare brokers , nay detestable and diuelishe deceauers , for if they may iustly bee called dissemblers and deceauers , rather then noughtie brokers , that set forth and extoll , vellewres for veluet , sackcloth for sattan , course harden for fine linnen , browne paper for pure partchment , ale for alligant , and water for wine : ( though they loose not all their money they paide for the same , and though their saide false wares may doe them some pleasure , ) then you that be Iesuites and Papistes , may rightly be called detestable and diuelishe deceauers , that extoll , prayse , preache , and write , masses for Gods mercy , crosses for Christ , the popes oyle for Christs blood , bread for Christes body , the Popes paltrie for Gods pardons , fables for fayth , 〈◊〉 for treasure , relickes for remission , the decrees of men for the doctrine of God , falshode for trueth , damnation for saluation , and the endelesse paines of hell , for the euerlasting Ioyes of heauen : which most false and counterfeate wares , through your praysing and extolling of them , the ignorant people doe buie them of the Pope , and pay therefore dearely , to their vtter destruction : therfore ( all this well weighed and considered ) though you meane by your wordes that wee are bare brokers : yet here you are descried , to be detestable and diuelishe deceauers , farre woorse 〈◊〉〈◊〉 brokers . And though you counte M. Niclos for the base wares that we the bare brokers doe so extoll , yet if you aduise your selfe aswel as you shoulde , and no lesse then we wishe , he is not so base a ware as you take him : ( except that be a base ware that is bought with the deerest price ) for how base soeuer you make him , he cost more than al the popes wares are worth , hee cost euen the very heart blood of Christ the sonne of God , yea and Christ was enforst before he could 〈◊〉 him , to come out of heauen , into this earth , & here to pay it and lay it downe for him . Therfore if you aduise your selfe wel , M. Nicols is not very base ware . Al the masses that you are able to mumble , nor all the money that they cost ( and yet they cost a great deale in a yeere ) can not buie him , ( though you sweare they can saue both the quicke and the dead ) .

It seemeth you take him for base ware , because you count his learning to be but base , howe base soeuer his learning is now with vs , you counted him well learned when hee was with you . Do you thinke he was better learned when he was the pope scholler , then now when he is Christs disciple ? or was his knowledge more profound when he profest the pope than now when he preacheth Christ ? belike the pope ( hauing al lawes & Dist. 40. si papa , in glossa . heauenly iudgement in his brest ) when he came to him , breathed him full of learning : and nowe at his comming away , Extra . de trans . episcopi . the Pope tooke it from him againe . You haue very good luck , for wicked & vnlearned men ( if they please & obey the Pope ) Quanto in glossa . them they are godly & learned men : but if they displease & disobey the pope , then are they wicked and vnlearned . It is no maruell , though men that are liuing & reasonable creatures ( being of the popes religion ) be godly & learned : when dead and senselesse thinges are holy when they come vnder the priestes fingars : for as long as the goldsmith hath the chalis it is not holy , but euery one may touche it with their bare hande : but when the papisticall priest hath once fingarde it , it is so holy , that none may touch it but the priest , except with a gloue , whereby it appeareth that a calues or sheepes skin , is more precious with your priests , then the skin or bare hand of a man the image of God . A litle cake is of small valewe before the priest haue it , but after he lay hold on it , it is the 〈◊〉 ly body of Christ ; wine is but wine as long as we haue it , but it is that very blood of Christ when the priest hath once catch it : oile is of smal value as long as we haue it , but when it cometh to the priests hands , it is equall to christs blood , & worketh our saluation : therefore whatsoeuer pleaseth the pope , is very precious : wherefore M. Nicols must be content to go nowe for base ware , as one vtterly vnlearned , because hee is fled from antichrist to Christ , and from the Pope to his Prince . But howesoeuer you Iesuites thinke of his learning , we Christians do not mislike it , ( if it were lesse ) as long as he preacheth Christ & is gided by the gospel . As long as he was one of the popes earthly warehouse , you counted him most excellent ware : but now that he is become one of christs heauenvly treasurehouse , you count him but baggage & trash . It is happy for him that he is come out of the popes warehouse : for if he had taried there but a litle longer , he would haue bin a great deale baser then he is , as I am sure he himself thinketh no lesse , ( if one that hath a gilty conscience & a desperate mind , may be so counted ) .

The seuenth part .

YOu call him a twise reuolted minister & a sely grammarian . The. 7. part . How oft he hath reuolted I knowe not , he is olde enough , discou . pag. 3. therfore he is able therin to answere for himselfe : but this I wil tel you , it is better to reuolt twise from truth to falshood , & then to returne 〈◊〉 to that truth , & so coutinue in that same vntil the last end : them to returne from falshod to truth , & after to reuolt by oth from truth to falshod , & so to continue ther in vntil the last gasp . & now because he is 〈◊〉 from the pope to his prince , you cal him a seely grammarian , but when he was reuolted from his prince to that pope , you counted him an 〈◊〉 scholler . You bere him such a grudge & detest him so muche , ( because he is departed from the pope to his prince , & from the Iesuiticall sect to the Christian religion ) that if he had not been a good grammarian in deede , you would neuer haue bestowed that name of a seely grammarian vpon him : but if he be but a sely grammarian as you terme him , he is more meet to be a pope , then pope Innocent was to bee a prelate , if we may credite Erasmus , who writeth as foloweth of the said popes answere vnto Inter epi. Au. epi. 91. Eras. the councell of 〈◊〉 : In hac Epistola , &c.

We lacke in this Epistle both eloquence , and wit , and learning meet for such a prelate . Which showeth that the same Pope Innocent was neyther eloquent , wise , nor learned . Wherby it seemeth that M. Nicols , may presume with your pope , for that you allowe him the name of a seely grammarian , and therefore if you looke well on it , M. Nicols is not so base a ware as you count him , vnlesse you meane to imbase an vnlearned Pope .

The eyght part . The 8. part .

YOu say , but only for that he surchargeth with slander discou . pag. 3. so many other men , yea Princes and States in that his declamation , you could more willingly haue pitted then answered ( knowing the mans feeblenes as you doe ) &c. It may bee that you are so angrie with him fortelling of truth , that rather of mallice then matter , and of collour then cause , you haue taken in hande to excuse your Pope and his prelats , by accusing him . But though it be the vse of Iesuits to slaunder true Christians , yet true Christians doe not vse to slaunder Iesuites . And though it pleaseth the Pope that papistes shal belie protestantes , yet it displeaseth Christ , that protestantes shal belie papistes . Wherefore I hardly beleeue that M. Nicoles ( being nowe become of a faithles Iesuite , a faithfull Christian ) will slaunder any thereby to displease his master Christ : knowing moreouer that hell is the place appointed for liers . So that whatsoeuer in this point you charge him withall , I doubt not but he 〈◊〉 & will easily discharge him selfe : but though you alledge his slaundring of other is the cause you answere him , yet I can not beleeue , but to be preferde of the Pope , or to be praisde of the papists , 〈◊〉 rather procurde you to doe it .

It seemeth , had it not been for the great slaunder 〈◊〉 made , you woulde haue been moued with pitie not to haue answered him : this is a very suddaine change , I maruell , the you are nowe so pinchte with pitie in answering one , whose 〈◊〉 were wonte to bee so pitilesse in burning of thousandes Well , it was very euill lucke that M. Nicols slaundered so many as he did , els you had not wasted so much paper as you haue done . For his feeblenes which you knowe ( that is his lacke of learning as it should seeme ) would haue eased you of a great deale of paine that you tooke with your pen : and perhappes of some punishment that you deserue of your Prince .

Though it appeare by this your writing , that M. Nicols learning is very feeble , it seemeth that Erasmus knewe also that some of the Popes learned and Schoole doctors did not Erasmus in scholis in Hieronym . ad Marcellam . farre excell him , for thus doth Erasmus write , portenta , quae nunc passim legimus in commentariis Recentium interpretum , tam impudentia , & insulsa 〈◊〉 , vt videantur suibus ea scripfisse , non bominibus : The monstrous folies , that we commonly reade in the commentaries of the late Interpreters ( meaning the chiefe of the Popes doctors ) are so farre without shame , and so peeuishe , as if they had been written for swine and not for men . Though you count M. Nicols learning to bee feeble , yet I trust you can not proue , but that his writing ( though you count him a seely grammarian ) may serue for men and not for 〈◊〉 . If such as Erasmus writeth of had learned enough to be the Popes doctors : then M. Nicoles hath learning enough to be one of ours ministers . It appeareth De con distin. 4 , Retulerunt Iulius . pp. 1. that Pope Iulius the 2. was scant so good a grammarian as M. Nicols , for if hee were , he would not haue assigned a warrant with fiatur , for fiat . Alphonsus de 〈◊〉 setteth forth the Popes for excellent learned men , for thus of them he writeth , Constat plures papas adeo Illiteratos esse , vt grammaticam penitus ignorent : it is manifest that many Popes are so vnlearned , that they are vtterly ignorant of their grammar .

If M. Nicols learning bee feeble being ( by your own saying ) a seely Grammarian , then many of your Popes had not much learning , being no Grammarians at all . Therefore in affirming M. N. feblenes in learning , you haue made me proue some of your popes to bee altogether without learning . you should haue foreseen , before you wrot , least by dispraising your foe , you danger your friends , is not this a goodly gaine you haue got : it is as you do euer and as you shall alwayes , you thinke by your 〈◊〉 to ouerthrowe other : but with your owne trypps you ouertumble your selues .

Well , though it stand M. Nicols in hand to haue learning being a minister of gods word , yet it maketh no matter whether one haue learning or no that commeth to bee Pope , for Baldus writeth , Papa est doctor vtriusque iuris , authoritate non Scientia : The Pope is doctor of both lawes , by authoritie , not by knowledge . You may see what a precious matter it is to be a pope , if any knew that his sonne shoulde be pope , he need neuer put him to schole . The Popes brest hath suche a speciall prerogatiue , that it hath more learning without studie , then all the mens brestes in the worlde haue with studie , as it seemeth by one of the popes gloses which is this , Et si totus mundus , &c. Although al the world woulde iudge in 9. quae. 3. neque ab Augu. dist. 19. si . Romanorum in glos . any matter against the pope , yet it seemeth wee ought to stand to the Iudgement of the Pope . For hee seemeth to haue all lawes in the chest of his bosome ; Therefore whatsoeuer the Pope either aloweth or disaloweth , we are bound likewise to alowe or disalow the same . And whosoeuer is not obedient to the lawes of the Church of Rome , must be deemed an heretike : and it were as great sinne , as Church robbing , to reason of any the popes doynges .

You that feare to run into the laps of heresie , must affirme that the pope hath all lawes whatsoeuer , in his brest , though he be 〈◊〉 so vnlearned a dolt , & whatsoeuer he aloweth or disaloweth , you must alow or disalow the same . They haue 〈◊〉 harde hearts & fantastical wits that will not beleeue al this that is thus glosed of the pope . And as it may be thought that the pope hath power aboue al other to iudge rightly of al earthly matters & causes , because he hath all laws fast closed in his 〈◊〉 , ( which he had neede to keep close & well shut , for feare they 〈◊〉 out ) euen so he hath a heauenvly iudgement , which none other on the earth hath or can haue but he , for thus it is written : Papa Extra . de trans . 〈◊〉 . quanto in glossa . 〈◊〉 coeleste arbitrium &c. The pope is said to haue an heauenvly iudgement , therfore in such things ashe willeth , his will standeth in stead of reason . Neyther may any man say vnto him , O sir , why do you thus ? like as a lawe may be made by the onely will of the pope : so may the same 〈◊〉 be dispensed withall , onely by the will of the pope . If the pope haue such a heauenly iudgement , as his doctors allowe him , & as he taketh vpon him , he might doe very much good , especially in determining & iudging of poore mens causes that haue wrong , whereby without any expenses & trauell they might quickly obtaine their right . Well , as king Salomon obtayned great wisedome at gods hands , so God sent him an occasion soone after for the tryall thereof , which was by finding 3. King . 3. out of the true mother of a liuing child , that two harlots did striue for , for being doubtfull who was the true mother , very wisely hee made them beleeue , hee woulde cutte or deuide the child between them , wherewith she that was not the mother thereof was well content , but the true mother pricke with naturall affection of her childe , willed rather that the other should haue her hole child aliue , then she to haue halfe of it being dead : which when the wise Salomon perceiued , hee deliuered to the right mother her owne child . Euen so as the pope hath a diuine & a heauenly iudgement , so you shall see what an occasion was giuen him , to showe & set forth his diuine & heauenvly iudgement , with to the intent that the popes diuine knowledge & heauenvly wisedome should not be 〈◊〉 , I haue set forth a worthy example thereof , in my said booke , ( which you so much mislike ) called a perlwasion from papistrie , as followeth . Perswasion from papistry pag. 121. There was a great contention between them of Ratispone in Germanie , & the Abby of S. Denis in France about the body of S. Denis , which was so deep a doubt to Iohan . Caluin . de reliquiis . discusse , that none but the pope was able to trie the trueth therof . And so to Rome they went , & the pope sate sadly in iudgement about it , & examined their allegations & matter throughly , and grew to a conclusion : & in the end gaue therof his deep & diffinitiue sentence , and said that both they of Ratispone , & they of S. Denis , had the whole body of S. Denis , & that whosoeuer would say the contrary shuld be an heretik . If the truth had not bin fast nailed to the pops chaire , ( & also if he had not had a meruelus diuine & heauenly iudgement ) the pope could neuer haue giuen such a true , wise , and learned iudgement of this weightie matter .

Nowe surely it was a popelie Resolution , yea and such a one as must needes make the veriest fooles in the worlde beleeue that Will Sommers woulde not haue giuen so found and ridiculous a iudgement . This famous , diuine , and true iudgement of the Pope is sufficient ( if there were nothing els ) to make vs beleeue that the Pope can not lie . Here the Pope showes that hee had a heauenly powre with his diuine iudgement , more like a God then a man . Though this before written may perswad you Iesuits , that this pope had all lawes and knowledge in his brest : yet it assureth vs Christians that he had no witte in his brayne , and though it teache you that hee was a diuine iudge : yet it doeth tell vs plainely , that hee was a very doite . Wherefore though you count M. Nicols but a seely Gammarian , yet if he had sitte in place of the Pope , he woulde haue giuen a wiser Iudgement than he : and though you count his learning but feeble , yet he woulde not haue giuen such a feeble iudgement of the body of saint Denise as your Pope did . Yet euery one must beleeue , ( that will not bee an heretike ) that his iudgement was true , in that he said that S. Denis had one body in germanie , and an other in Fraunce . All this before written well weyed and considered , howesoeuer you Iesuites iudge of master Nicols learning , wee Christians must thinke that some of your Popes had neither wisedome nor learning .

The 9. part .

YOu say wee shame not to proclame triumphes vpon 9. 〈◊〉 . so base conquestes against our mother the Catholike Disco . pag. 4. Churche , who hath borne vs and brought vs vp , &c.

Wee neede not thankes bee to God bee ashamed of any triumphes that wee proclame , and it is verye harde for you to prooue that wee proclame our triumphes openly ; but rather giue therefore prayses to GOD , and 〈◊〉 there at inwardly . And yet to say trueth , we may 〈◊〉 proclame our triumphes , then you may reioyce in yours , for we triumphe not in burning our brethren , in priuie conspiracies , in sowing of sedition , in rebelling against our prince , and in procuring her death , as you doe , but our chiefe triumphing is , in the growing of that gospel , in recouering lost sheepe , in winning that wicked & in increasing gods kingdom . Therefore to proclaime such triumphes ( as we do not ) were no such shame as you say . And where it seemeth you meane the base conquest wee triumph in is the winning of master Nicols , the conquest is not so base as you would make your Reader beleeue : vnlesse you thinke it to be but a base conquest to couquere the Diiuel , and to pluck a soule out of the clawes of Satan .

As before you counted master Nicols to bee but base 〈◊〉 , so nowe you blow foorth , that the winning of him is but a base conquest , but as you thinke that our conquest therein is but small : so I beleeue the conquest of the popes souldiers in Ireland ( not long since ) was not very great , and whatsouer cause wee haue to triumph in this , I am sure hee hath no cause to triumph in that . And yet if your Pope haue 〈◊〉 much power as his procters pronounce , and as much might as you and many woulde make him , and if hee hath power Grego . Haimburgensis in appella . sigism . ducis . austriae 2. Chro. 32. ouer the Angels of God : I maruell why hee did not then commaunde the Angels to come out of heauen into Ireland to fight for him , and to vanquishe and kill the 〈◊〉 power there : as well as God sent his Angels , to destroy the hoste of Sennacherib that came against King 〈◊〉 to destroy Hierusalem .

I woulde faine knowe in what part of the Bible or the worde of God , you haue read , that your Romish Churche is a mother , or in what place of the Gospell you can finde , that your said Catholike mother of Rome hath , or ought to haue any children in England : Truely your mother of Rome may thinke that shee hath children in Englande , but they that bee wise , in England will not think they 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 mother in Rome . They that take God for their father , will not take your Church of Rome for their mother : God the father of heauen is not able to doe more for his 〈◊〉 . then your earthly mother of Rome is able to doe for her daughters . Christe taught his Apostles to say , Our father which art in heauen , and not our mother of Rome which art in earth , if your Church of Rome be our mother , I 〈◊〉 then who begat vs on her , & who was our father , for I hope you will not say that she is Hermaphroditus , both man and woman , & so both our father and mother . Surely shee is so contrary to God , that he is none of her husband , neither wil he haue any such wife , as regardeth not his sonue , or contenneth his gospel , as your mother of Rome doth altogether . Therfore I know no meete husband for her , vnlesse it be the Diuell , who in my iudgement is the fittest husband for her that can be found , for as she counteth herselfe Ladie & Mistres of all the world , so the Diuell is Prince & a mightie ruler in that world , whereby it doth appeare ( if she haue any husband at al , if she haue married with her match , as such a proud dame will 〈◊〉 loth to marry vnder her degree , ) that the diuel is her husband , & then hee must needes bee father to all her children , & 〈◊〉 by this meanes you that take the holy Churche of Rome for your mother , must needs be inforced to haue that diuell to your father : Or els she must be vnmarried & play that Whoore , & so the best you can make of it , you proue your selues bastards , & your mother a whoore . And to the intent you may perceiue , that your holy mother of Rome is more like a whoore , than a good woman , the whoore of 〈◊〉 wherof S. Iohn in his reuelation Apoc. 17 doth write , by the iudgement of S. Hierome writing to Algasia , is the purple whoore of Rome , who saith , Nec vult , &c. Which is , neither will he openly say , that the Romane Empyre should be destroied , which they that gouern it think it to be euerlasting , wherfore according to the reuelation of S. Iohn , in the forehead of the purple whoore there is writ ten a name of blasphemie , which is Rome euerlasting . And moreouer the place where this purple whoore shoulde sitte must needes be Rome : for the angell doth plainly tell Saint Iohn , that the vii . heades of the beast wheron the purple whoore Apoc. 17. sitteth , signifieth vii . 〈◊〉 , & there is no Citie in al the worlde that is builded vpon vii . hilles , but only Rome in Italie , wherby though you would avoid that your mother the Church of Rome is not the wife of the Diuell : yet by no meanes it can be denied , but that your holy mother of Rome is a strumpet and a very harlot according to the wordes of S. Iohn , and so all her children must needes be bastardes . And forasmuche as you counther your spirituall mother , you must needes haue a spirituall father , and because none can beget spiritual children on a spirituall harlot , but the Diuell , then whether you will or no , though the Diuell bee not your Romish mothers husband , yet he must needes bee hir paramoure , and father to all her children . Therfore as long as you take that Church of Rome for your mother , you must needs be the bond bastards of the Diuel , wherefore forsake that harlot your mother , the you may be the free children of God your father .

If you knew what a wicked & cruell mother you haue of her , you would not long bee her children , for if shee may bee counted a wicked and cruell mother that will allure her childe to steale whereby he shal be hanged , or els doth cut his throte , if he do not steale as she willeth him : then your holy mother of Rome , is the most wicked & cruell mother of all other , for if you do rob God of his glory & Christ of his merites ( as she doth teach you ) then you shal be 〈◊〉 in the endles paines of hell : and if you denie to do it , shee will burne , murther , or kill you , because you doe not as she willeth you . Therfore the great extremitie of them that are vnder such a mother , wyll enforce them if they be wise , to flie from her , and humblie desire God to their father .

And where you say the your holy mother of Rome hath borne vs , whether you meane spirituall birth or temporall bearing vs on her backe , I am sure you say most vntruly . She may beare or bring foorth Iesuites if she will , but shee can neuer beare or bring forth true Christians if shee woulde , as you that are Iesuites take her for your mother , & reioyce that she hath borne you : so we that are Christians take god for our father & are most glad that we are borna new in christ through hearing of the gospel & working of the holy ghost . And 〈◊〉 for other bearing I am sure the pope which is the head of 〈◊〉 church hath beene so long vsed to bee borne on mens shoulders , that hee will disdeyne to beare or carry any , either on his shoulders or other wise . Therefore in this that your holy mother hath borne vs ( take it which way you will ) is a most manifest vntruth : vnlesse you haue some other mysticall meaning in it , that is to busie for my braine .

And with our bringing vp I thinke your holy mother hath not been muche troubled , for thankes bee to God our soyle hath and doth dayly yeelde vs sufficient sustinance and 〈◊〉 of all things : yea & that hath been such a long time , since your holy mother hath curst vs , for so long as shee blest vs wee neuer fared so well , that the like hath not been seene : ( God graunt wee be thankefull for it , ) vnlesse you meane our bringing vp in Queene 〈◊〉 time by your holy mother , which if all things bee well marked , may bee called rather a beating downe then a bringing vp , no doubt your holy mother tooke then great paynes with bringing of vs vp , for they that obeyed her , they helpt to feed her and bring her vp , and such as stucke to Gods worde and refused her , she did beate downe and burned them to ashes , was not this a louing mother that thus brought vp her children :

If you meane of the bringing vp of master Nicols by your holy mother at Rome , in feeding and releeuing him , I must needes say , that though it was to feeding of his body , it was to the killing of his soule . For your holy mother feedeth her children as cattell is fed , for though the oxe is glad when he is put into a good pasture to bee fed : yet the simple oxe is fedde to bee killed : So your holy mother feedeth her children to the death of their soules , and nourisheth them louingly to their endlesse destruction . And as the oxe is ignorant that hee is fedde for his death , so you little knowe the destruccion will follow this your bodily feeding . Therfore if you woulde consider the ende of your holy mothers feeding of you , woulde rather fast and fare hard , in England vnder your mercifull prince : then to haue all the pleasures you can wish , vnder your cruell & wicked mother of Rome . Therefore 〈◊〉 from that feeding that will make you fast al wayes , and shunne from these delicates that will driue you to the Diuell .

The tenth part .

YOU write in your sayde booke ( to the greate slaunder 10. parte . and reproche of our ministers and Preachers ) that if Discouery pag. 5. the notable infamous acts of ministers and Preachers onlie , in this one Realme of Englande , for the space of one dozen yeeres past , were gathered into some one booke , for the view of the worlde : they woulde be more in quantitie , and in qualitie more heinous , than all that they haue gathered by great labour and much fashood in their seuerall bookes , out of the liues of the woorst Catholikes for these thousande yeeres past , ouer all the whole worlde , &c. If you had lamented the wicked liuinges and lasciuious liues of the ministers and Preachers of Gods worde , as you reioyce therein , you woulde not haue written so manifest a falshood as you haue done . But as the Diuell is the father of lies : so can not his children be tellers of trueth . And as you haue detracted my booke , without anie triall : so you haue 〈◊〉 our ministers and preachers without any proofe or any argument but this your owne bare wordes , thinking belike that you Iesuices shoulde be of such credite , that your bare sayinges shoulde bee taken forsooth , and your counterfaite coyne should goe for currant . Whatsoeuer before I haue written of you , I haue done the same with authorities and argumentes : but this that you haue written against our ministers and preachers , wee haue but only your penne for a proofe and your worde for a warrant . But as I must needes confesse that many of our ministers and preachers haue not liued so well as they shoulde , nor so godlye as I wishe : yet it is moste manifest for certaine hundreth yeeres past that many of your holie Popes , Cardinalles , Prelates , and Papisticall priestes , haue liued so horribly , incontinently and diuelishly , that it will loath any true Christian to heare . I doubt not but if you could haue mamfested your malicious minde against our preachers and ministers , you would not wish such slight woordes so soone haue giuen it ouer , but for that it would haue beene to busie for you openly to proue such a number of notable infamous actes against our preachers and ministers , as you pretend priuily with your penne : You referre your readers in the mangent of your booke , to the recordes of our temporal courtes . Indeed the Pope & his prelates are wilier than our spiritualty , for none of their doings or deeds may be called to account , but only before themselues . No lay man may accuse you , no temporal iudge may n you , nor no king may controll you , wherby your diuelish practises may be kept priuie , and that the common people shold not know your detestable dealings . And because you would seeme to be saints though your liuings were lothsome : you prouided a remedy for a mischiefe , but if the practises of your Popes , the condicions of your cardinals , the blemishes of your Bishops , the Acts of your Abbots , the maners of your monks , the facts of your fryers , the chastity of your channons , & the pernitious doings of your priests for a thousand yeres past might haue come in question before temporal magistrates & ciuil iudges , & that the lay men might haue complaind so a gainst them according to their causes , as they may do against our preachers & ministers with vs : them I am most sure & certain that al the abhominable actes , detestable deeds , execrable enormities and filthy facts of them could not be conteined in a great number of greater bookes , then the greatest bybles we haue . For seeing there is so manie bookes filled with their filthy factes , and detestable doings , for all their restrained lawes and priuie keeping of the same : what a number of volumes would haue 〈◊〉 farced therewith , if euery one that would , might haue written according to their desertes , & complayned to the temporall powers according as they had occasion : Also it cannot bee that our ministers and preachers of Gods worde , which is the director of trueth , should generally liue so infamously as your preachers and professors of the popes religion , which directeth into darknes . If they that go in the bright day , walke wrong , then they that go in the darke night are not like to go right . And if they go wrong that know the way , then they that know not the way are not like to goe right . They that know the way may goe right if they list : but they that know not the way cannot goe right , If they would . Thus our preachers and ministers haue a greate aduantage of the blinde papistes , for that they know the light of the gospell , who though they go wrong , yet they may returne into the way againe : but you that professe the darke doctrine of the Pope , you must needes goe wrong do what you can . So that through the knowledg of gods word , our preachers and ministers , will say they go wrong , when they go not right : but you Iesuites and Papistes , ( for want of Gods word ) doe say you goe right when you go wrong . These countries that haue and doe most constantly embrace Gods word , haue euer had and haue some preachers and ministers , that liued more wickedly than godly , & more reprochfully than religiously : but their going wrong maketh not their religion euil , but their euil religion doth cause them to go wrong . The naughty deed of Baalam did not make that the religion of the prophets was false , the traitrous dealing of Iudas with Christ his maister ( being one of his Apostles ) did not approue that his religion and the religion of all the rest of the Apostles was euill : no , for Christ did teach him his religion , but the Diuel did teach him his treason . Euen so if any of our Preachers or mynisters liue more vngodlie then they shoulde ( as no doubt too manie of them doe : ) yet their religion doeth not teache them to doe so , for Christe in his Gospel hath taught them their religion : but the Diuel without the Gospel doth teach them to liue vngodlie and wickedlie . Now seeing that Iesus Christ had but twelue Apostles , and one of them for monie 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 contrary to his religion ( though he were dailie in the companie of Christ : ) then it is no maruel , though amongst such a great number of ministers and preachers as wee haue in England , there be manie that liue vngodlie and contrarie to their religion , in the absence of Christ . Therefore though you dispraise our preachers and ministers neuer so much , yet that is no sufficient proofe that their religion is euill or their doctrine false , ( though some of them were so euill as you doe pretende . ) Wee muste followe the good doctrine thoughe the Preacher doe euill , but wee muste not followe a false Preacher thoughe his needes doe seeme good . I must needes confesse , that the 〈◊〉 life of the preacher and minister , woulde doe verye much good in encreasing Gods Church , and some ( I feare ) doe asmuche harme with their euill liuing as they doe good with their true preaching ( but that is to the fonde and 〈◊〉 lish . ) But surelie I muse that any can be so foolish , to refuse good preaching and to follow euill doing . The simplest man that is ( that hath any wit , ) knoweth that whoredom is sinne , swearing is a vice , theft an offence , and drunkennes is a wicked thing , with other such like : then they that knowe that these are sinnes and vices , why shoulde they committe them though they see the preacher or minister vse them : and also if they can despise the minister and preacher for doing of them : then why doe they committe that wherefore they despise the minister or preacher : Will they sinne because the preacher or minister doth sinne : If they like the preacher or minister A thing worth the noting . so wel that they wil sinne with him for companie : then they must be content to goe to hell with him for companie . But if a straunger come to a 〈◊〉 where he was neuer before , and doth aske the way to a place , if one should say to him my friend , that is the way , but take heed , for a little before there is a deepe pit , into which if you should fall you wil be in hazard of your life , yet notwithstanding he that giueth him this warning , goeth before him and wilfully falleth into the same pit , doe you thinke that this straunger woulde be so madde , as to goe & fall into the same pit with him for companie : I think not , he woulde rather shunne a little aside to goe safe . Now if a straunger will shunne an earthly pit , ( where he may haplie get out again , ) because he seeth one fal into it before : how 〈◊〉 are they then , ( though they bee neuer so vnlearned ) that will commit the sinnes they knowe , because that preacher or minister doth them , whereby they shall fall into the deepe dungeon of hell , where they shul be in endlesse torments and can neuer get out if they 〈◊〉 once in . Therefore if the Preachers & ministers of Gods worde liue according to their 〈◊〉 , then we may be bolde to followe both their 〈◊〉 and deedes : but if they doe contrary to their doctrine , then we must shunne their deeds and follow onlie their doctrine . And according as Christ saith , we mustdoe as they say and Mat. 23. not as they doe . Therfore deedes must not allow the doctrine , but doctrine the deedes . Wherefore you do not well , to mislike our religion of the Gospell , because some of our Preachers and ministers liue not according to the Gospell , but you dispraise our ministers doinges , because you woulde haue their doctrine despised . Wherein ye deale verie preposterously , for you woulde haue an euil liuing to 〈◊〉 a good doctrine : But we will haue a good doctrine reprooue an euill 〈◊〉 . But if a good doctrine condemne wickednes and sinne , ( as the gospel doth , ) them that cannot be a good doctrine that mainteineth wickednes & sinne , whiche your Romishe religion doeth , and therefore it is a false doctrine . And if the euill liuing of our preachers and ministers doth shewe that our doctrine is false ( as you would make it ) then the most abhominable liuinges and detestable doinges of your Popes and their Prelates , doe shewe that your doctrine is not very true . And now because you charge our ministers and preachers with infamous liuinge , to haue their doctrine discredited , as though your popes and their 〈◊〉 , had and haue onelie power to liue godlie and vertuously : I will heere briefly put you in remembraunce of some of their spirituall and 〈◊〉 vealinges set foorth in my saide booke called A perswasion from Papistrie , whiche part of my booke , I thinke eyther you neuer read , or els you haue forgotten the same : for that you haue bestowed the title of infamous actes vppon our ministers and preachers , whiche is your owne by right , yea and none caniustly claime it from you .

And seeing you will needes haue your Church of Rome to be your mother , I will nowe shewe you what a holy mother you had once that was head and Pope of your said mother . And as I haue proued that your said mother ( if you wil needes haue her your mother ) is a verie whoore : so this holy mother , that I wil speake of , was a very harlot ( if they that haue 〈◊〉 without husbands are harlots . ) For though Marie the mother of Christ did conceaue by the holie Ghoste : yet I hope you wil not say but that this your mother did conceaue by some other .

Your Pope Ioan the eight whose proper name was Gilberta Perswasion from papistry . pag. 70. ( a dutch woman of Magunce ) first went with an Euglish monke out of the Abbey of Fulda in mans apparell to Athens , And after through her dexteritie of witte and learning , was made Pope and so she ruled as pope two yeeres & sixe monethes . At the last , ( that it might appeare what a holy matrone was head of your holy mother ) in a general procession openly she fell in labour and trauell of childe , and so dyed , by reason whereof the Cardinals vntill this day do auoyde to come neere that streete , where your holy mother the Church of Rome receiued that shame : So that all that whyle they had no man Pope but a woman Pope . But though al this while they lacked a holy father , yet they were sure they had a holie mother . If euer ante might cal the church of Rome , their mother , they that were aliue and vnder this your virgin Pope Ioan , might lawfully call her mother , for then they had a mother indeed , that was the ruler and head of their church . It hath pleased you to entitle our Preachers & ministers with infamous actes , but this act of your Pope Ioan was not very famous if yee marke it wel . I am sure that in all these twelue yeres in which you so charge our preachers & ministers with infamous acts , nor yet for this xx . yeres , nor at any 〈◊〉 vnder the preaching of the gospel , you are able to say that you haue read or heard , that euer our ministery was once touched with such a notable & infamous act , as this the was committed by this your holy harlot , & chiefe head & ruler of your sayd holy mother . I muse that euer you can be so fond & foolish 〈◊〉 once to thinke that your romish church could be a holy mcther , that was ruled and gouerned by such an vnholy harlot . You shal 〈◊〉 now another famous Pope ( I may not say in famous , for that is the liberal liuery that you vouchsafe to bestow on out preachers & ministers ) pope Iohn the thirtenth Pag. 70. was full of all abhominable vices , he was a whoremaster , an A precious Pope . 〈◊〉 , incestuous , libidinous , a gamester , an extortioner , periured , a fighter , a murtherer , cruel and tyrannous , of his Cardinals , some he put out their eyes , of some of them he cut out their tongues , of some he cut of their fingers , of some 〈◊〉 noses , and many other such like mercifull actes , ( I must not say infamous actes ) he ordeined deacons in a stable , he committed incest with two of his owne sisters , he called for the diuel to help when he playd at dice , he made boyes bishops for money , In epistola Othonis Imper ad Iohan. pp. he defloured virgins & strangers , he made a stewes of his pallace of Lateran , he lay with Stephana his fathers concubine , & with other , he put out that eyes of bishop Benedict , he caused houses to be set on fire , he brake open houses , he drank to 〈◊〉 diuel , &c. If this Pope were Christes vickat , them Christ did chose for himself but a mad vickar , he was far vnlike his master , it is hard for you to finde such a famous fellowe , ( I may not say infamous ) among al the patriarks , prophets or apostles , do you thinke you can pick out such a one among al our preachers & ministers of Gods word , that haue 〈◊〉 , are , or euer shal 〈◊〉 I think it wil be very hard for you to doe , you might me thinkes well haue spared your notable infamous actes from our ministers and preachers , and bestowed them a great deale better vpon these your notable famous , ( I must not say infamous ) popes , for that they did such notable & famous facts , that none other can deserue to haue that title from them .

Pope Iohn the 14. caused one Petrus , first to be stript naked , Pag. 72. then his head to be shauen , & to be hanged by the haire a hole day together , after that to be set vpon an Asse , his face 〈◊〉 backward , & his hands bound vnder the Asses 〈◊〉 , & so to be led through the city that al men might see him : that done , to be scourged with rods & so banished the city . Whether he was a chast pope or no I know not , but it appeareth he was a very charitable pope , according to the charitie of your holy mother the church of Rome .

Pope Boniface the 7. caused Pope Iohns eyes to be put out , & after to be thrown into prison , where he was ( as some Pag. 72. say ) famished , some say he was slaine by Ferrucus .

Your holye Pope Hilde brande was a notable Benno cardinal . Sorcerer and a Necromancer , who on a time sent 〈◊〉 for a booke that hee had left behinde him , who , though hee commaunded them to the contrary , reading a little of the same , sodenly there came a greate sorte of Diuels about them , wherewith they were almost out of their wittes and then the diuelles saide vnto them , tell vs what you woulde haue vs to doe , or els we wil fall vpon you , then one of them that had the booke bad them plucke downe certaine walles 〈◊〉 to Rome , which they did quickly , and at last with 〈◊〉 feare , they came to the pope and gaue him his holy booke . It is said that the Pope hath the holye Ghost at commaundement , but sure this Pope 〈◊〉 had the diuell at his becke . It is no maruell though your Churche of Rome were a holy mother , that was ruled and gouerned by such a holie father .

This holy Hildebrand hired one to lay great stones ouer the Emperours head in the roofe of the Church where he vsed Pag. 73. to pray , and to let them fall vpon him and so to kill him , but the fellow that did so , fell down and was dasht all to peeces with the same . This was a famous deede of a Pope , but you woulde haue saide ( as you might well enough ) that it had beene a notable infamous acte of a Preacher or minister of the Gospel . Also this holy Pope Hildebrand 〈◊〉 three men to death before they were conuict , ( or founde or approoued guiltie ) and caused them to be hanged without delay contrary to al law . Also be caused the foote of a widowes sonne to be cut off , not withstanding he had fulfilled al that was enioyned him by the saide Pope before , and after his foote beeing cut off , he died within three dayes after . All you that woulde learne equitie and iustice learne here of the Pope , I coulde neuer reade that Christ after hee had the woman that Iohn . 8. was taken in aduoutry , goe away and sinne no more : that eyther he commaunded the Iudges to put her to death ( as this Pope did ) or els that he caused her legge to be cut off . And thus in breefe , this same godlie Pope Hildebrand , was Benno cardinal . charged by the counsel in Brixia to be an aduoutrer , a church robber , a periured man , a mankiller , a Sorcerer , and a denier of the faith . When he was but a Cardinall , hee smote Pope Alexander with his fyste , & laide him in prison , he poysoned sixe Popes his predecessours , to make away for himselfe to be Pope : he was a coniurer , and a rayser of diuels , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉 he threwe the sacrament , his Christ of 〈◊〉 into the 〈◊〉 . If you consider this pope Hildebrand with the other before mentioned you will say that our Prcachers and ministers ought not to holde the title of infamous actes from them . For they of all other ought chiefly to haue it .

Pope 〈◊〉 the eight did say , that hee woulde within Persuas . from papistrie . Pag. 77. short time , make either all the French men Martyrs , or els forsakers of their faith , ( for if they yeelded to his religion and Romish Church , then they shoulde forsake their faith : And if they denyed his religion , and stucke to the Gospell , then hee woulde burne them or otherwise kill them , and so hee woulde make . Martyrs of them . ) Also he said that he sought not the health of their soules , but the destruction of them . Though some of our Ministers and Preachers liue not like Saints : yet this Pope in his sayings was something like Satan . I thinke you cannot say ( vnlesse you say falsly ) that any of our ministers or preachers haue spoken such infamous wordes as this . Pope Boniface did , and that they woulde eyther kill men or make them flee from their faith .

Nagareta a knight testified before the French king called Phillip , that Pope Boniface the eight was a theese , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 , his mouth full of our sings , his feete 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 blood , a tearer in peeces of the Church , which hee ought 〈◊〉 cherish , a wicked waster of the goods of the poore , a 〈◊〉 of wicked men , because they gaue him rewardes , a persecutor of the righteous , a bringer in of newe 〈◊〉 of destruction that had not beene hearde of , a 〈◊〉 of the trueth , thinking himself to be equal to Christ , a greedie desirer of gold , getting it by deuise of all people , no regarder nor worshipper of God , not 〈◊〉 any way to get money , a maker of merchandize of all men , a louer of no man , a nourisher of 〈◊〉 , a persecutor and hater of peace of his subiectes , rooted in all vnspeakeable sinnes : a striuer against the doctrine of God , and the abhomination of the people spoken of by Daniell the Lordes Prophete . Surely how infamous soeuer our ministers and preachers actes be , it appeareth that the deedes of the said Pope was not very good , nor his conditions very godly .

Pope Sextus graunted to Petrus Ruerius a Cardinal Pag. 8. and all his whole family free leaue to vse the sinne of Sodomitrie ( a thing most shamefull to be vttered , but most abhominable to bee licensed , or permitted . ) This was no infamous act because a pope did licence it , and because a Cardinal did commit it : though God doth so detest it , that therfore he consumed Sodom and Gomora and whole Countries with fire & brimstone from heauen . A great sort moe of suche precious popes I coulde shew , that haue very great wrong , if your title of notable & infamous actes should bee taken from them : which you of your liberalitie haue giuen to our ministers as vndeserued nay , and that is more , they are farre vnable to deserue it . wherfore I 〈◊〉 you to bestow it on your popes , for they of all other haue most right vnto it . But I assure you if our Preachers and ministers did deserue the same , the one were inore meete to be popes of Rome , then Preachers of England , and the other morefit to be mumblers of the masse , then ministers of Gods word . Truly your mother the holy Church of Rome , that hath had such vnholy fathers can not wel be counted to be a very holy mother , & that hath had such diuelish heads cannot well haue a very godly body . And now because your said mother must needes be vngodly , you her children cannot be very vertuous . And also your Cardinals haue not liued very holily nor chastly , for at the councell of Trident , two of your holy Cardinals were taken & slain 〈◊〉 , which may be famous & godly with you Iesuices , but it is most infamous & wicked with vs that are Christians . You cannot charge either any of our Bishops , Doctors , or preachers of Gods worde , with any such infamous acte at any of our Councels or Parliaments , for if you could I doubt not but you woulde . And by the report of S. Barnard , the Bishops did not liue very vertuosly in his time , who sayeth : Quaein occulto 〈◊〉 ab 〈◊〉 , turpe est vel 〈◊〉 : It is shame to vtter the things that are done of Bishops in their secrets . Barnardad Clerum in Synodo Rhemen . And as your Popes , Cardinals and Bishops doe best of all other deserue 〈◊〉 your title of infamous actes : so your Priestes & Clear , gie haue not liued so holy and chastly as you woulde seeme , and therefore our Preachers and Ministers may rightly returne the same vnto them , for that they are better acquainted with infamous acts & vnchast life than they . And because you shall not say that I speake at randon without proofe against your papistical vnmarried priests , as you do against our married preachers & ministers : I wil shew you a litle taste , the better to coniecture the rest . It is noted vpon the decrees thus : Communiter dicitur quod pro simplici fornicatione quis deponinon debet , cum pauci sine illo vitio 〈◊〉 . It is commonly Dist. 81. 〈◊〉〈◊〉 in glos . said , that a man may not be deposed or depriued for simple fornication , forasmuch as few ( priestes ) bee founde without that fault . Here the popes decree doth hold & allow that priestes may vse simple fornication , without any harme or punishment : but I neuer read that either Christe or his Apostles allowed somuch , & besides that it affirmes that 〈◊〉 all Priestes were fornicators , for it saith few liued without that fault . And seeing the popes law hath decreed it , it must needes be true , for a popes law cannot be false , and thus though you without warrant ( but only your own word ) do charge our preachers & ministers with notable infamous acts : here haue I brought you one of your popes owne decrees ( in whose 〈◊〉 or brest is al knowledge & law , yea & a heauenvly iudgement , & whom you are bound to beleeue vpon paine of heresie ) that saith plainly , few priestes liue chast , but are fornicators . Therfore if the popes decree be true ( as I am most sure in this case it is truer than your tale ) your priestes must be fain to take this title of infamous acts from our preachers . And because it may the better appeare , that the popes haue rather excused their priests in liuing vnchastly , them to restraine them from it , I will put you in remembrance of a note or two touching the same , written in my said booke called A persuasion from papistrie , which I am sure you like so much the worse because it openeth something plainely the vile and infamous sayings and doinges of your holy Romish Church , And these are the wordes .

You may see by this pretie lesson that followeth , whether 〈◊〉 Pope by his restraining of Priestes marriage , doth Persuas . from papistrie , Pag. 203. meane that thereby they shoulde liue chaste or not , and this it is mark it wel : Si non castè tamen caute , If thou deale not chastly yet deale charily : The rule is pretie and short , though the Pope knoweth that his Chaplyns cannot hide theyr vicious liuing from GOD : yet hee woulde haue them hyde it from men . ( A man may looke through the whole Bible , and yet finde not suche a fine rule for whooredome : ) and because it is not to bee found in the Bible , but directly against the doctrine of the Bible , therfore I may conclude , that it is ( though it came from the pope ) the doctrine of the Diuell . And that you may thinke that this will rather allure them to lewdenesse then win them from wickednesse , marke this that followeth , if wee had none other lawe for theeues but these wordes , If men liue not truely , yet let them steale priuilie : doe you thinke that then woe shoulde haue as fewe theeues as wee haue ? I thinke not : And as this woulde encrease thè theeues , so doth that fine rule of the Popes , breede fornicators , 〈◊〉 , whoores and harlots . Therefore you may see by the Popes lessons , that hee meaneth not to chide his Chaplyns for their 〈◊〉 , but rather to 〈◊〉 well of them that can doe it most priuily .

Marke heere also what a straight law was made against women for lying with Priestes , In a prouinciall councell holden at Oxeford , it is written thus , Let Priestes Concubines bee warned by the 〈◊〉 , &c. And if they wil Constit. 〈◊〉 . Edmundi Cant. Archicpis . not amend , then let them be forbidden to kisse the Pax , & to take holy bread in the Church . Was not this a greevous & fore punishment to make harlots refuse their whoredome with Priestes : Did their harlots care so much for kissing of the pax that they would forsake the kissing of Priests : No I 〈◊〉 you , and therfore this hard and straight law was made .

As good a law to 〈◊〉 drunkennesse were this , whosoeuer wil not forbeare drinking of wine , ( wherby they become 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) let them in no wise be suffred to drink water . This is as good a law to suppresse drunkennes : as the law of Oxeford was to auoide whoredome .

Marke what Petrus Rauennas one of the popes 〈◊〉 In glos . 〈◊〉 . de immunitate eccle. pet. Rauen. vpon the decretales saith , notwithstanding handling and kissing in lay persons be the occasions or beginnings of incontinent or vnchast behauiour , yet in priestes it is farre otherwise . Uerye well sayde & doctor like , for priestes doe not kisse or dallie with women , as other men doe , for the priests kissing & dallying with women is that beginning of godly deuotion . Therefore when wee see a priest kisse or 〈◊〉 with a woman , we must assure our selues , that by and by after they will fall to prayer , such vertue haue priests in their kissing and 〈◊〉 aboue other men . And this was the cause that women haue so willingly suffered priestes to dallie with them , and to kisse them .

Here is also a Golden glose for mainteining of priestes 11. qnae . 3. absit in glossa . chastitie : and thus it is , If a priest embrace a woman , a lay man must iudge of it thus , that he doeth it to the intent to blesse her . Well saide , for suche blessings of the priestes haue been so full of vertue , that many women thereby haue had such tympanies , that they coulde neuer be helpt of their disease , before they had mydwiues to be their phisitions . Are not these goodlie gloses to make priestes liue chaste : it is no marueile though all your popish priests liued very vertuously and without connnitting any infamous 〈◊〉 that had such straite lawes to brydle them , and such glosses to girde them . If our lawe of the Gospell were not suche a lawe of libertie as it is , or els if it were made more straiter with three or foure of these the popes glosses , then our preachers and ministers woulde not committe so many infamous actes as you say they do , but would liue as vertuously as your popes , and as 〈◊〉 as your priestes . The popes ponde being Actes & monum . pa. 393. found full of childrens skulles , sheweth that your popes and their chaplaynes liued verye 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 : who can thinke that there was any infamons actes amongst them all that while , that those children were 〈◊〉 getting , and while they were a murthering ? vnlesse you will say that it was then the custome to burie children in the water . In Christes tyme , and long before it was thought most conuenient to burie the dead in the earth , mary I will not say but that the Pope ( being indued with al wisedome and heauenly iudgement ) may thinke it more better to burie the dead in the water . And in deede it standeth with good reason , that if the water bee a fit graue for the 〈◊〉 , then it is as meete a graue for the dead . For pope Vrbanus the first , thrust fiue Cardinals into sackes Sabelli . Enne . 9. lib. 2. and threw them quicke into the sea , and there he buried them aliue , this was a famous deede , I must not say an infamous acte . Though you of your curtesie charge our preachers and ministers with infamous acts , yet if you should search all the pondes of our bishops , preachers , and ministers throughout Englande , I am most sure you shoulde not 〈◊〉 in them all so many childrens heades as was in that one ponde of your Popes . Except they were cast there before , by the popes prelats & priests , in the time when your romish religion was 〈◊〉 & folowed . And by the late writings of some that were of your owne crue , that seemed to fauour your religion before they sawe some of your pernitious practisies and lewde lyuinges : it doeth appeare that your Spirituall clargie called Priestes , doe liue now more lyke Sathanests then Saints . & where as you charge our ministers with infamous liuing , without proouing of any : they charge dyuers of the Popes clargie and Priestes with horrible and detestable dealinges , and proues the same in many , which you may see if you will in Maister Nicols pylgremage , and in an other booke 〈◊〉 tituled The English Romane life . But you perhappes will count them false , because they are written against you , though yours must needs bee 〈◊〉 , because you write them agaynst vs . Therefore this litle that I haue written before , ( which is but 〈◊〉 in comparison of all the monstrous manners and detestable dooinges of the Romishe Clargie ) well weyed and considered : you may bee ashamed to charge our preachers and ministers with such notable infamous actes , as though they were the puddle of all pernitious practises and the sincke of all sinne : and your Popes , prelates , and priestes ( whose liuings haue been most wicked and vicious ) the 〈◊〉 of all good liuing , and the onely 〈◊〉 of vertue . But I thinke it had been as good for you to haue holden your peace , and not to haue entituled our preachers and ministers with suche infamous actes as you haue done . For your great gaine you looked for thereby may 〈◊〉 turne to your losse : if the Popes owne decree , your owne counsels , and manifest actes and deedes with persons and place , may bee credited before the bare worde of one 〈◊〉 without any tryall , argument , or proofe .

The II. part .

WHo doth not see ( say you ) the great varietie The 11. part . of important learned personages , whiche discou . pag. 5. from time to time , vpon tryall of the truth , doe returne vnto vs , euen from their ministerie &c. If you meane that there are such a number of Apostatase come ouer to Rome or beyonde the seas , then to tell you euen truely , I and many thousandes besides , do neither see it , nor heare of it : neyther doe wee misse them . I will tell you my mind , such as are wearie of their welfare in englande , I wishe they shoulde taste of euill fare at Rome : and suche as are not pleased to bee gouerned by a most mercifull prince at home , I woulde they were yokt with a cruell tyrant abrode : and suche as are not 〈◊〉 with their owne 〈◊〉 countrey of Englande , I woulde they might suffer some penurie in a barran and forraine soyle : for thoughe suche maye pleasure you , yet I am sure they doe but 〈◊〉 vs . But if there be such a great number of them , it is a great token they loue not their prince so well as the Pope , and therefore more meete to be with the Pope , then with their prince . And because they preferre the popes lawes before the Queenes proceedings : therefore I thinke them more 〈◊〉 for Rome then for Englande . You may say they are true to the Pope , but I am sure they are false to their prince : or els they would be content to bee gouerned by 〈◊〉 grace . But though many returne from vs to you , yet our prince doth not send them 〈◊〉 to Rome to stirre 〈◊〉 there , and to seeke the 〈◊〉 of the pope : as the pope hath sent some hither 〈◊〉 England of late to allure the people to rebellion for the confusion of their 〈◊〉 . You make as though there were a 〈◊〉 great number of them returned from vs to you , if all the important learned personages had returned to be of your 〈◊〉 that are still of ours : then you might haue boasted that they had been a great number in deede . Yet it seemeth by your saying , as though you had almost all , and weefe we or none , or that shortly ( for that they refuse vs so fast ) that Englande will bee destitute of meete men for the ministerie . You count our learned men that are dayly wonne from the Gospell to you ; but you consider not the greate number of the simple and vnlearned sort that our preachers winne dayly from you to vs . If you encrease one way , I beleeue wee encrease twise as much an other way . And whereas these important learned men you meane , before they reuolted from vs , were able to instruct the simple and vnlearned : shortly I 〈◊〉 not but that manie of the simple learned that are 〈◊〉 conuerted to vs , will bee able to reprooue your sayde important learned personages .

And this their great returning to your religion ( you say ) is vpon the tryall of the trueth . This is your owne bare 〈◊〉 , for other argumentes or proofe to confirme the same you bring none . But belike the tryall of your trueth hangeth 〈◊〉 mens 〈◊〉 to you , which if it be so , then why may not the daily returning of other to vs , try as well that ours is the trueth 〈◊〉 If you meane the trueth is tried by the number of them that returne , then we haue no cause to refuse you therein : far whereas one doth turne from the Gospell to 〈◊〉 , twentie haue and doe dayly both here and in other countreys , come from papistrie to the Gospell . But the turning or returning of the people is no perfect way to try the trueth . For Gods worde 〈◊〉 him that turneth : but hee that turneth must not trie Gods worde . None of the popes preachers did euer turne so manye in a day to 〈◊〉 , as Peter did turne to the Gospel , for Saint Peter converted 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . in 〈◊〉 day three thousande by preaching the Gospell . Therefore if the trueth of religion depende of the nomber of them that are turned , then I am sure the religion of the Gospel is true , and all other religions are false . For none other religion in all the worlde hath so quickly , soddenly , and myraculously encreast and sprung vp as the gospel . And further if you will make the trueth of your religion to consist by the turning of vs to you , why may wee not then as well say that the turkes religion is also true , for that diuers Christians haue and doe reuolt to the same :

And as you say that many of our ministerie is returned from Iohn . 6. vs to you : euen so I say that many of Christs disciples went from him , and walked no more with him : yet I hope you wil not say that Christs religion was false because his disciples daparted from him , and forsooke his religion . But as Christs disciples were false disciples , because they departed from Christ : euen so our men of the ministerie ( bee they neuer so learned , ) are false ministers and Apostatas , because they are returned from vs , whiche teache the same Gospell that Christ taught to his disciples .

And whereas you boast that they that are returned from vs to you , are important learned personages , yet ( if a christian may giue a Iesuite counsell ) I woulde wishe you not to leane too muche to your or their learning , for great learning without Christ is nothing : but small learning with Christ is much God beholdeth the lowlie , not the learned . The blessed virgin Marie the mother of Christ saide , that GOD Luke . 1. looked on the lowlinesse ( not of the learning ) of his handemaide . The hawtie and learned Pharisees were not chosen by Christ to be his Apostles , they had suche learning , that they thought scorne of Christ , as you with your learned important personages thinke scorne of the Gospell . And as the proud learned Pharisees said to the simple and plaine Iewes that beleeued Christe , in these wordes : Are yee also Iohn . 7. brought into errour ? doe any of the rulers or of the Pha , risees beleeue on him but the common people which know not the law , are accursed ? So you with your important learned personages , may say to the common & simple people that beleeue the gospel , wil you be seduced from our holy mother the Church of Rome : will you be brought into the errour of these heretikes of a newe religion : do you see any of vs that are important learned personages beleeue on their newe founde doctrine : none followe them but the common and vnlearned people , which vnderstande not the scriptures . Take heede therefore what you doe , for our most holy father the Pope hath not onely cursed them : but also wee holie Jesuites that holde on the blessed name of Jesus , haue with a great othe accursed them , and denounced them for heretikes . Euen thus you are in all pointes like to the proude learned Pharisees , that were the enemies of Christ , for that you boaste of your important learned personages , dispising our simple and small learning as they did . And as the common people of the Jewes that beleeued in Christe ( whom the Rulers and Pharisees accounted accursed ) was in the true way , though they saide they were in errour : Euen so our Simple learned ministers , and the common people that professe the Gospell , are in the true way , though you count them in errour , and you in errour though you bragge of the trueth .

A great sorte of our ministers and of the cleargie ( though they be not so learned in the Latine and other tongues as some of you Jesuites are , and other of your important learned personages reuolted from vs , though we haue thankes bee to GOD a great sorte , besides no small number of young Jmpes that are able to matche you euery way ) haue better knowledge and sounder iudgement in the scriptures then you haue . Yea and they are sory at the verye hearte , to see you so wilfull ignoraunt in the trueth : whom GOD accepteth a great deale better then you with all the learning you haue you were better to haue lesse learning with truth , then more learning with falshood . Saint Augustine saith , Aug. contra . Academi . li. 3 cap. 7. Multo minus malum est indoctum esse , quam indocilem : It is a great deale lesse harme to bee vnlearned , then to bee wilfull or vnapte to learne .

Saint Ambrose saith : Non in dialectica complacuit deo , 〈◊〉 facere populum suum . Regnum enim dei in simplicitate Ambr. de 〈◊〉 lib. 1. cap. 3. fidei est , non in contentione Sermonis : It pleased nor God by logique to saue his people , for the kingdome of God standeth not in contention of talke , but in simplicitie of faith . Irenaeus writeth , Melius est , & vtilius , Idiot as & parum scientos Irc̄ . li. 2. ca. 45. existers , & per charitatem proximos deo fieri , quam put are semultum scire , &c. It is better a great deale for men to be ignorant and to knowe but litle , and by loue to drawe neere to God , then to thinke themselues to knowe much , and to haue great experience , and yet to bee founde blasphemers against God . Saint Ambrose also saith , Verba philosophorum excludet simplex veritas piscatorum : The simple plaine trueth of Fyshers , confoundeth the words of the learned Philosophers . Here you may see the learned and auncient Doctours doe preferre the simple fayth and playne trueth of Jdyots , and poore fyshers , before wilfull deepe contentious disputers , and learned Philosophers . Therefore you haue no such cause to bragge or boast , neither of the great number of our Ministers , neyther of your important and learned personages , that are returned to you : But you and they haue great cause to bee sorie , that you haue forsaken your obediencie of your most louing lawfull and mercifull Queene : and sworne obediencie to that Antichrist of Rome , through continuing in whose diuelishe doctrine vntill your last gaspe , you will bee brought into perpetuall destruction both of bodie and soule in hell 〈◊〉 for euer . ( Except you repent ) . Therefore bee not wilfully blinde , but open your eyes willingly , and resist the manifest trueth no longer .

The 12. part .

YOu followe your olde song still , for as you said before 12. part . that M. Nicols is but base wares , here you say that he Disco . pag. 〈◊〉 . in good sooth is not worth the taking vp beeing founde in the streete &c. Sometimes a lewde lye dooeth lurke vnder a good sooth , you that do sweare to maintein manifest 〈◊〉 : you will not sticke to lie , when you sweare not at all though you say in good sooth . You looke that this smoth 〈◊〉 of yours shoulde procure your reader to credite you , 〈◊〉 as the Foxe when he lyeth still as dead , doeth hope of a pray : so you by this your smothe sothing hope to winne the simple reader the rather to beleeue you . Master Nicols may be glad that you limitted the place , or els you woulde not haue allowed him to bee taken vp at all . Well , it was happie that hee was not founde in the Streete : else ( by your doome ) hee was not worth the taking vp , and so he shoulde haue lien in the streete and perished . For who will take vp that thing that is not woorth the taking vp : It seemeth that some places are luckier then other , and some more vnfortunate then other . The Pope hath his best lucke in his chayre , for there hee can not lye saye what hee will : And Master Nicols hath his cheefe misfortune in the streete , for anie where but there hee is woorth the taking vp . One may nowe easely gesse , that you woulde not haue taken him vp , if you had founde him in the streete . May woulde not some of you Iesuites haue beaten him downe if you had founde him in Rome out of the streetes ? faire 〈◊〉 friende at neede , Christe thought him woorth the taking vp ( as it doeth appeare ) for euen hee him selfe ( and I take him to bee as good as your Pope and the beste Iesuite of you all ) did not thinke scorne to take him vp , and carried him on his owne shoulders , as one of his loste and strayed sheepe . Therefore Luke 15. what so euer you say , Master Nicols was woorth the taking vp , or els Christe the Sonne of GOD woulde not haue taken suche paines to haue carried him on his owne backe . You may see here what a great 〈◊〉 there is betweene the Pope and Christe , for the Pope woulde thinke scorne to carrie one on his shoulders , ( especially M. Nicols ) as Christ hath done . Yet the pope shoulde be the inferior of the two , Christ the sonne of God 〈◊〉 carrie one hole man on his shoulders : but the Pope wil carrie none , but must be carried on that shoulders of foure men at the least . Therfore the pope may haue a sheep , ( I perceiue ) lie a good while in a ditch ere he wil take him vp , nay they that be that Popes Gotes must be miuen to beare him on their backes . O how happy are those sheepe that Christ beareth on his shoulders : but how 〈◊〉 are those gotes that beare the Pope on their backes .

The thirteene part .

WHere you say that our fraude or feruor is to 13. part . make mountaines of mowlehilles : I am sure Discouerie . Pag , 6. that you by your Papisticall power doe make mowlehilles of mountaines . Christ 〈◊〉 the kingdome of heauen to a little graine of mustarde seede Math. 13. For as out of a litle graine of mustard seede ( though it seeme very small ) springeth goodly faire braunches full of leaues : Euen so of the worde of God ( though it seeme little or of small value in your eyes ) doth spring and grow the fellowship & Church of God , that shall raigne in the kingdome of heauen for euer with Christe . In this respect wee make mountaines of 〈◊〉 : But you cleane contrarie make mowlehilles of mountaines , for whereas mountaines in diuers places of the scriptures is taken for the word of God , & as according to S. Chrysostome , who saith Hierusalem hic . &c. Here by Hierusalem euermore vnderstand the Church , which is called the Citie of peace , the foundations wherof are laid vpon the mountaines of the scriptures . 〈◊〉 . in Math. Homil. 46 : Your Doctors , and you amongest you haue made mowlehiles of them , making your Romish Church the mountaines , and as it is manifest by the wordes of the Popes penne man Siluester Prierias , in that they haue extolde your Churche to bee Siluester prierias contra 〈◊〉 . aboue and more then Gods worde , calling those mountaines of the Scriptures , also a nose of wax , inken diuinitie , a liuelesse letter , and a dumbe 〈◊〉 , with such like as shal appeare more 〈◊〉 hereafter . And therefore though you cannot proue that wee haue made mountaines of mowlehilles , yet I haue proued the you haue made 〈◊〉 of mountaines .

The 〈◊〉 part .

YOu say that wee cannot shewe you any one Prieste in 14 part . these latter yeeres peruerted by vs . By this your Discouerie . Pag. 6. most spightfull and venemous word , you meane that our religion the Gospell of Christe is wicked , els you woulde not haue saide peruerted . Though you haue derided mee for vsing a P. Whereof I will ( God willing ) speake in place conuenient : yet it lamenteth mee that you misuse a P. here in this place as you doe . At the last day when all knees shall 〈◊〉 before the Maiestie of Iesus Christe , you shall then 〈◊〉 , whether this 〈◊〉 religion according to the gospell is such , that they that are wonne vnto it are peruerted or not . I feare you did speake against your conscience when you wrote that worde . If they be peruerted that are wonne from 〈◊〉 to truth , from darkenesse to light , from mens dreames to the worde of God , from 〈◊〉 to Christ , and from hell to heauen : then belike they are 〈◊〉 that are allured from truth to errour , from light to darkenesse , from Gods worde to the Diuels dreames , from Christe to 〈◊〉 , and from heauen to hell . Well , you that deale thus preposterously with Christe : at the day of iudgement he will deale vprightly with you . But I beseech God ( if it be his will , ) that you may be conuerted to be the childe of saluation , or els that you haue no power to peruert soules to damnation .

You make a great bragge because not one priest of late yeres is allured to our 〈◊〉 , as though your religion were true because priests sticke so hard to it : and our religion false because no priestes doe receiue it . Truth dependeth not vpon priestes , but good priestes depend vpon truth . Truth will be truth , and will remaine stil though there were neuer a priest in all the worlde : the religion of Christes Gospell is wel able to stand without any of your priests . Though your masses cannot be said without popish priestes : yet our holy Communion instituted by Christe may bee celebrated well 〈◊〉 without them . Therfore you are wide to 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 religion cannot be without your priestes , or that your religion is true , because you haue such priestes , & ours false because we haue none . You persuade your selues 〈◊〉 like that you 〈◊〉〈◊〉 sodenly a great conquest , because 〈◊〉 cannot 〈◊〉 you any 〈◊〉 priest 〈◊〉 : ( which to liketh you 〈◊〉 cal peruerted ) but I 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of you , how many priests of Moses 〈◊〉 did Christe conuert when he was heere on earth : If you cannot shew me one , wil you therfore say that high priestes and 〈◊〉 religion was true , and Christes religion false , and that because he conuerted no 〈◊〉 : I hope you wil not . And now if Christ the sonne of God ( which was the best conuerter of all other ) did not conuert one prieste of Moses law ( that law of God ) vnto him : then it were no great mexuell though our preachers ( that are but the seruantes of Christe ) cannot conuert one of your priestes of the popes law , which are enemies to the law of God . And though you so stoutly affirme that there hath not one priest byn 〈◊〉 to vs , in these latter yeeres , you may bee 〈◊〉 for all you are a Iesuite , for if there were seuen thousand Iewes 3. King . 19. that went not from God to Ball , ( though 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of God knew not of it ) then may there not one priest be , conuerted from the pope to God , though a Iesuite a seruant of that pope do not know it : yes wel enough . Though you ( if you be at Rome ) may vnderstande of all the reuolters that come from vs to you thither : yet one or two papisticall 〈◊〉 may turne to vs heere in England , & you neuer the wiset . Wherfore write not so precisely upon an 〈◊〉 ; 〈◊〉 as that cocke is not to bee counted of , that croweth vncertenlie : so you are not to bee commended , to affirme things 〈◊〉 .

The fifteenth parte .

YOu say you haue nothing to compell our Ministers 15. part . vnto your part ( which haue offered themselues to you 〈◊〉 . Pag , 7. in this time ) except euidence of truth , nor anything to allure them except 〈◊〉 and honestie . Bragge is a good dogge , if truth may be got with talking , I doubt not but you will haue it : but as 〈◊〉〈◊〉 the only truth , so they that will haue it must learn it of Christ . But because you are 〈◊〉 by the holy 〈◊〉 of God , to maintaine the Popes 〈◊〉 that are false which is olene contrarie to the gospel of god with is truth , therefore you haue not the truth . The Iewes bragd that they had Abraham to their father but Christ told them flatly Iohn . 8. that they had the Diuell to their father , who was a lyar from the beginning , and therefore they were lyars because they were his children . Now if the 〈◊〉 which were the elect people of God , were lyars and were the children of the diuell for all they said they had Abraham to their father : then you that are not the peculiar people of God , may misse of the truth and bee very lyars , though you say your selues you haue the euidence of truth . The Scriptures are chiefe tryars of the truth & Christ saith : Ego sum via , veritas , & vita , I am the way the truth and the life , and hee also saith , Iohn . 14. Search the scripture for they beare witnesse of mee . Now Iohn . 5. 〈◊〉 it is 〈◊〉 by Christes owne wordes , that the scriptures be are witnesse of Christ , which is truth . Now seeing you cleaue to the Popes lawe , which is contrary to Gods Iawes you forsake the scriptures , and therefore you haue not the truth , because you search not for it in the Scriptures . Theophilactus saith , That Gods word is the candle where by the theefe is spied . Nowe as theeues will put out the candle and goe in the darke , for feare they shoulde bee bewrayed by the candle light : so doth your holy father the Pope and his Chapleines , hide or put out Gods worde least it bewray them . Therefore by your hiding and suppressing Gods word you shew your selues spirituall theeues . Wherfore if theeues bee true , then you haue the truth . So that it appeareth ( yea & it is most plaine ) that it is not the euidence of truth that maketh our ministers come so thicke vnto you , well it may be flatterie and falshood . And can you make vs beleeue , that all they doe come to you from vs for the trueth 〈◊〉 knowe in your religion : No no , they regard the popes riches more then his religion , the treasure of his coffers more then the truth of his cause , and his liuinges more then his learning . Therfore you may put out truth well enough , for truth is as hard to come by at Rome at your popes hand : as to haue Okes growing in the Sea .

And as for your pouertie , that cannot allure them , for it is not like the Popes seruants should be poore , ( I pray God they may bee poore in spirite ) the Pope that hath the angels of heauen at his commandement , hee may haue golde and siluer enough at his becke . And he that may haue money as much as hee list , then he were very vnkind to suffer them to lacke that doe proppe him vp in his Popedome . 〈◊〉 that Abb. 〈◊〉 . de elect . cap. licet abb . can doe whatsoeuer God can doe : then hee may doe what soeuer Christe coulde doe , therefore as Christe made Peter 〈◊〉 fetch twentie pence out of a fishes mawe : So the Pope Math. 17. may cause thousandes of poundes to bee fetcht out of great whales bellies , and neuer hurt any body for it .

I thinke our ministers that are thus reuolted to you , doe not loue pouertie so well , that therefore they would forsake their countrie , flie from their friendes , & procure their princes displeasure , only to haue your company for pouertie sake . Therefore heerein you thrcape kindnesse on them whether they wil or no , for I dare say thus much in their behalfe , that they had rather go to Rome for the popes purse , then for your pouertie . And if they goe to Rome so thicke & three folde for your honestie ( as you woulde faine persuade vs ) then in my iudgement they make but a sory iourney : I hope that honestie is not so scarse in England , that for it they had neede to goe to Rome . I beleeue I coulde helpe them to more honestie for a pennie heere , then they can haue for a pound there . ( Yea and that which you call honestie , I feare wil proue hypocrisie , disobediencie , or rather plaine traitrie , ) which may goe well enough for dishonestie . Wherefore it were more wisdome to haue without trauell and cost honestie at home , then with painefull iournies and great expences to buie dishonestie or rather treason at Rome . There are a great sort of good wittes , wise heads , honest men and good Subiectes in Englande , and all they I am sure doe thinke that you that flee to the Pope and forsake your Prince , obey the Pope , disobey your Prince , obserue the Popes lawes , breake Gods and the Queenes lawes , refuse your owne Countrie , thinke better of a strange Countrie , discommend your Queenes proceedinges , commende the Popes pernitious practises , and disprayse Englande and extoll Rome , are not greatly ouerladen with honestie . You doe well to haue a good opinion in your selues , and for want of other , to set foorth your owne honesties . But Saint Paule sayeth , Hee that prayseth himselfe is not allowed , but he whome the Lorde prayseth . 2. Corinth . 10. You are faine to report it your selues , least otherwise it should bee hidde and vnknowne . You doe as the vnshamefaste guest did , that thought himselfe honester then any of the guestes beside , who looking a great while to bee willed to bee set at the vpper ende of the Table , and sawe that none woulde bidde him : hee without any more adoe , ( as one more shamelesse then shamefaste ) set himselfe downe and so tooke his place ( without an Usher ) at the higher ende of the Table . Which when the good man of the house saw , ( perceiuing him to be more bolde then honest ) made the lower ende to bee the vpper ende , and so accordingly hee set and placed his guestes as hee thought good : whereby this man that woulde faine haue beene exalted , and that did set and place himselfe highest , without any remoouing was inforced to sitt lowest . So you , seeing none either will or can well prayse your honesties : ( for there is no great cause , for that you haue chaunged your selues from beeing the Queenes Subiects to be the Popes slaues , and from beeing faithfull Christians , to bee forsworne Iesuites ) haue dishonested your selues , as the vnshamefast guest did , by publishing your owne honesties . All your Countrie men that are honest in deede , woulde haue thought you a great deale honester than you are , if you had obeyed your Prince , obserued her lawes , and continued in your owne Countrie . Yea and woulde haue had a better opinion that you woulde bee honest , if you woulde flie from the Pope , embrace Gods worde , returne to your Countrie , and humbly submitte your selues to our most mercifull Prince and Queene of Englande . This is the way rather to recouer your honesties lost , then to get any credite by blasing your honesties abroade in your owne bookes . Your late trayterous attempts , your priuie conspiracies , your 〈◊〉 practises , your seeking and wishing the death of your Prince , the destruction of her Councell , and the confusion of your Countrie too manifestly knowne and through Gods goodnesse reuealed : whereby some of your holy Priests had new tippets giuen them at Tyborne , fit for their profession , is a manifest proofe that you are very full of honestie , and though you woulde faine bee honest : yet your owne writing doth witnesse your dishonestie , for though in lesse then a line you haue set foorth your owne honesties : yet your whole booke hath bewrayed your dishonestie .

The sixteenh part .

IN the beginning of your aunswere these are your 16. 〈◊〉 . woordes . For the better vnderstanding of this first Discouerie . Pag. 8. Pag. 〈◊〉 . part , as also to see howe little cause this little man ( whiche is master Nicols ) had to trouble vs with bragging , it shall not bee amisse to set downe in few woordes some short progresse of his life &c. Namely his course from Wales to Englande , and from England to Flaunders , from Flaunders to Rome , and from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London , &c. As it was not amisse for you in the first part of your disceuerie to set downe a short progresse of M. Nicols life , for the better vnderstanding of the firste parte of the same : Euen so I thought it not amisse in the first beginning of this my booke for the better vnderstanding of your good disposition and honestie , heerein to shew foorth plainely and truly , your abhominable profession , and your most execrable oth for the perfourmance thereof . And though in derision you call him this little man , and make as though hee hath troubled you with bragging : as little as he is , Hee , whose seruant he is , is able to giue him strength enough to ouerthrow your mightie Giants . It was not little Dauid that boasted of his manhood , but it was great Golyah that bragd of his strength . And as little Dauid seemed but a dwarfe to Goliah the enemie of God : so doth M. Nicols seeme ( by your saying ) a very little and selie wretch , and farre vnable to match with the power of your mightie Gyaunt the Pope . But as little Dauid not by his owne strength , but by the power of God , 1. Sam. 17. did hyt the great Golyah in the middes of his forehead with a stone of his sling and so killed him outright : So litle M. Nicols , not of himselfe , but by the help of God , with the litle 〈◊〉 of his tongue and penne , may with the stone of Gods worde , hyt your mightie Pope such a blow , that it wil make him to stagger . Of the like ( Gods name bee blessed ) wee haue great tryall and 〈◊〉 . For many as little and smal to see to as M. Nicols , haue so hit the Pope by meane of their slings , that hee hath had such a fall : as I am sure hee will neuer recouer againe . You count it a great discredite for M. Nicols to trauell as hee did especially from Rome to the Pulpit in the Towre of London , well me thinkes it deserueth more credite to goe from Rome to the Towre to preache the worde of God : then to bee ledde from the Towre to 〈◊〉 to bee hangd for treason . And therefore though you speake it in reproche of M. Nicols , that hee came from Rome to preache in the pulpit in the Towre : yet it was not greatly to the prayse of Doctor Storie & Ducket called 〈◊〉 , and your great captaine Campion and other to he led from the Towre to preach in the pulpit at Tyborne . 〈◊〉 M. Nicols 〈◊〉 from Rome into Englande , and to become a professor of the Gospel , subiect to his prince , & to bee a friende to his countrey , is to bee discommended : then they that goe from England to Rome , to denie the word of God , to be false to their prince , and to bee enemies to their countrey , are not muche to be praysed . Thus if you weie all thinges vprightly , you haue no great cause to showe Master Nicols progresse from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London , to his reproch . And nowe as you haue discourst and opened M. Nicols doings , to the discrediting of his religion : so haue I discourst and blased forth your execrable othe and religion , to the discrediting of your doyngs .

The 17. part .

AFter this you say ( and that agayne in good sooth ) that The 17. part . you muche pittie the man , and that you wishe his discou . pag. 9. onely repentance to pardon , and not his infamle to desperation . A false meaning had neede to be finely smothed , if you pitie him because hee embraceth the woorde of God , and is become obedient to his lawfull and mercifull prince , then I must needes say you are too full of pitie . I feare you are so ful of 〈◊〉 pitie , that there is small roome for true pitie that the scripture alloweth . True pitie can not bee in them that so enuieth any , that will allowe , consent , yea and reioyce in the burning and destruction of any . Though you pitie M. Nicols as you say , yet hee knoweth no occasion I am sure why you shoulde pitie him so much . I woulde he had no cause to pitie you . Nay you pitie him not but spite him that he doth so well : but he and wee all doe pitie you that you doe so euill .

It is but a madde repentance to pardon that you wishe him , for you woulde haue him repent and 〈◊〉 for ye that hee hath forsaken the Pope , and returned to Christe , and that hee dispiseth your Diuelishe doctrine , and embraceth the worde of God . And you woulde haue him trust to the Popes pardon which will vtterly deceiue him , and to 〈◊〉 Gods pardon , which onely can helpe him . And here vpon you conclude , if he repent not to pardon as you 〈◊〉 him , then he must needes bee infamous , and so come to desperation . But we may well doubt whether your bare word , without either authoritie or any argument , be a sufficient warrant , that hee if he continue in the gospell , and the obedience of his prince , shall be infamous , and so come to desperation . But though you would haue your simple reader to giue credite onely to your good sooth , that M. Nicols if he continue in the gospel as he doth , shall there by get infamie and so come to 〈◊〉 whereof you are vncertaine , because you haue not yet seene the proofe ( for he is yet aliue ) : yet I would haue the indifferent reader consider , that I haue already with argumentes , proofes , and true examples plainely 〈◊〉 , that diuers of your religion wrought their owne infamie & came to desperation , whereof I haue seene the tryall . Therefore your good sooth is not a sufficient proofe , that M. Nicols if hee continue as he doth , shall come to infamie and 〈◊〉 . But the dolefull and desperate deathes of them of your secte , which are yet freshe in memorie , is a manifest proofe : that you and your sectaries will come to infamie and desperation , if they and you continue as you and they doe . Therefore wee much pittie you , and wishe onely your true and vnfained repentance , and that you may 〈◊〉 pardon for your sinnes at Gods hande , through the death of his sonne Iesus Christe , the onely Sauiour and redeemer of all the worlde , and not to sticke to the popes pardon .

The 18. part .

IT seemeth that you haue a diuine knowledge in presaging The 18 part . or foreshewing the cause why one is borne in the place , where they first come into the world , ( it may be that you learned it of the pope who hath a diuine and heauenly iudgement ) , for like a profound scholler and a deepe clearke , ( soon after you somthing touched M. Nicols short progresse and course from Wales to Rome , & from Rome to the pulpit in the towre of london ) you say , I. Nicols therfore was born Disco . pag. 19. at Cowbridge in Wales , &c. By this your saying it doth appeare that M. Nicols was borne at Cowbridge in 〈◊〉 , because he went or made his course from Wales to England , from England to Flaunders , from Flaunders to Rome , & from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London . For you , say , Iohn Nicols therefore was 〈◊〉 at 〈◊〉 in Wales , and nowe for that there is none other cause before , specified , but onely his said course and trauell from Wales to England , and then to Rome , and so from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London , therefore his said iourney and course , from Wales to England , and from England to Flaunders , and from Flaunders to Rome , and from Rome to the pulpit in the towre of London ( if we may beleue you ) was the cause why M. Nicols was borne at Cowbridge in Wales . It was happie that hee traueyled that iourney to Rome , and so from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London , or els it seemeth by your saying hee had neuer 〈◊〉 borne at Cowbridge in Wales . Had not you tolde mee this tale , I shoulde haue thought , that his beeing borne at Cowbridge in Wales , was rather an occasion that hee made this course and iourney , then that this his course & iourney should haue made him be borne at Cowbridge in Wales . As the popes pardons haue impossible vertues , so the popes Iesuites , can make impossible causes , you counted before that M. Nicols was very base ware : but if this be true that you tell vs , he can not be very base , neither yet such a litle man as you made him . For it is more like that hee should be rather a heauenly creature than an earthly litle man : that tooke suche a course and went such a iourney before he was borne . Your pleasant ieasting with one of my wordes , and finding of fault therewith , ( which is vsually spoken , and which was apt for the matter , and agreed with my sense , as shall appeare 〈◊〉 ) hath made me the rather iustly to 〈◊〉 this ( Therefore ) of yours , which not onely is needles , but also marreth the meaning of the text , and hath giuen it as before appeareth a contrary sense . I maruell that you that are so skilfull in controling of M. Nicols in two or thre liues of 〈◊〉 , are so far ouer seen in one english word .

The 19. part .

YOu are a good Proctor for the Pope , for where as you The 19 part . go about to magnifie his maiestie , you publish his pride . Discou . pag. 16 17. You can not conceute home the Pope shoulde giue M. Nicols thankes for his 〈◊〉 ( which you call his stuffe ) for you saye , in the consistorie , the popes place is so farre distant from them whiche 〈◊〉 thither to make 〈◊〉 , as he can not speake vnto him . ( Be like the Pope then sitteth so , that the wind bloweth from the preacher to the pope , whiche taketh awaye the sounde of the Popes thankes from the preacher : els I see no cause 〈◊〉 the preacher may heare the Popes thankes , as well as the Pope may heare the preachers Sermon . But it may bee , that the Popes are alwaies horste , or the preachers deafe ) nor the pope doth vse ( you say ) to thanke any man that speaketh before him , what soeuer he bee , &c. Great learned men , and 〈◊〉 oratours haue departed thence without particular thanks , albeit they did their matters with great commendations . Such ( you say ) is the grauitie and state of that place .

You may see here , it is not the pride of the Pope , but the state of his place , that causeth them that make orations or preach before him to goe away without thankes . It seemeth there is a great difference betweene the Popes chaire and his consistorie , for the popes chaire is so full of wisedome and trueth , that the pope when he sitteth there , is full of learned talke , yea and can speake nothing but trueth , as it may appeare by his iudgement of the body of S. Denis : but the popes consistorie is suche a proude and stately place , that the pope as long as he sitteth there , dare speake neuer a word , or els is so doltishe a place , that he , whiles he is in it , is tongutied , or hath no witte to speake .

Well , seeing the pope is so daintie of his thankes to his preachers , it shoulde seeme that he is verie daintie in bidding them to dinner . But for that the pope is called Seruus seruorum dei the seruant of Gods seruants , and hee taking his preachers for Gods seruants , whereby they must needs then be his masters : I muse that he is so farre ouer seene , that hee doth not bidde his masters to dinner , especially seeing they preach before him . But I must say that the pope is a stately seruant ( if he be a seruant ) that will neither bidde his masters to dinner , nor giue them once thankes for their Sermons . The pope belike would vse his seruantes but homely : that dealeth with his masters thus vncourteously .

I perceiue it is not the custome of your holy and lowely Churche of Rome , that a poore preacher shall dine with a proud pope , seeing a proude pope may not giue a poore preacher thankes . But one woulde thinke , though the popes table is too hie for his preachers to sit at : yet the grounde vnder the popes table is lowe enough for them to lie on , where he may suffer them to picke vp that cromes that fall from his table . And then his preachers might say , that the pope doeth as muche for them for their preaching , as he did to his dogs for their barking . But parhappes the grounde vnder the popes table is not allowed for poore preachers , but onely for dogges and Dukes euer since duke Dandalus lay there . It may bee that the great vertue of the Popes chaire woulde quite bee lost , if the pope shoulde thanke them that make Orations , or preache before hym . Because the pope woulde not be like vnto Christ , therefore he is loth to be humble and meeke .

The 20. part .

FOr your reuerent writing of your countrey , you may easely be iudged what you are . As you haue forsaken 20. part . the obedience of your prince , so you meane ( as it seemeth ) not to deserue any fauour of her grace , ( if you shoulde chaunce to be catcht as some of your fellowes haue been . ) It appeareth by your saying that ministerie here is sufficient to excuse dishonestie , for thus you say , If he ( that is Disco . pag. 18 M. Nicols ) shoulde haue delt so in some other countreys , where ministerie is not sufficient to excuse dishonestie , it woulde rather haue fallen out to his cost then his credite , &c.

As though ministers were so borne with all heere , that they may worke what mischiefe they will without controlement : whiche is a most shamefull slaunder . What so euer ministers are here , too many such as you , are winked at or excused here . But though ministerie is not sufficient to excuse dishonestie in Englande , yet priesthood is sufficient to excuse whoredome in Rome : And in other places where the pope hath power , as appeareth plainely before . And doe you thinke that the olde prouerbe hath loste his force at Rome , whiche is Omnia venalia Romae , all thinges are salable at Rome : it can not be so , for what is it that money will not excuse at Rome :

This following sheweth what swindge money hath borne Aureum speculum in Antil . at Rome , venalitate curiae Romanae inaniter praeficiuntur , Lenones , coqui , stabularii equorum , & pueri : Through the briberie of the court of Rome , baudes , cookes , hostlers , and boyes be placed in offices to gouerne the Church .

Your mother the Church of Rome must needes be holy , that had such learned and vertuous children . It is happy that nowe you haue so manie important learned personages , for hereby it appeareth that your church was not wont to be pestarde with learned prelates , vnles baudes , cookes , hostlers , & boyes were counted to be such . And also your holy fathers the popes would not sticke to pardon any thing for pence , for they haue giuen commonly prelates and priestes leaue for money to keepe harlots ( for manners sake wee must call them concubines ) : yea and other offences they haue pardoned for money . Pope Martin the fifte for money licenced one to marrie his owne sister . God nor his sonne Christ , did neuer so much . Frier Ticel had such a large pardon of the pope , that he saide Iohà Sleidan . 〈◊〉 . 13. if one had got the mother of Christe with childe , he was able to pardon it . I am sure you can not prooue that our ministers haue had any suche licences from our Prince , as manye of the Popes Prelates and Priestes haue had of the pope to committee sinnes and offences .

The Pope hath giuen dipensations for sinnes before they bee done : and hee hath giuen pardons for them after they bee done , as it is manifest . And though the Popes pardons ( whiche are delicate sawces to procure sinne ) are not warranted by Gods woorde , but are quight contrarye to the same : yet you sweare as before is 〈◊〉 that the vse of them is verye wholesome for Christian people . And though you alledge without proofe , that our ministerie doeth excuse dishonestie : yet it appeareth plainely by your othe , that your Societie doe swere to maynteyne blasphemie , Idolatrie , disobediencie , and traytrie vntyll your last gaspe . Nowe whether ministerye in Englande , or your spiritualtie of Rome doe excuse dishonestie more , let the indifferente reader bee iudge . The more you striue to withstande trueth or to slaunder the ministers of the Gospell : the more you set forth your follie and vtter your shame .

The 21. part .

YOu say onely such goe to purgatorie , as die in the fauour 21. part . of God , but haue not done suche penaunce for Discouerie . Pag. 28. their sinnes , as Gods Iustice requireth , and therefore they are to bee purged by fire , &c. If Christe or his Apostles had tolde you , that suche goe to purgatorie , it might haue wonne some credite to your cause , but your owne bare woordes ( though you are a Iesuite ) deserue no suche credite , wherefore vntill wee finde your purgatorie in the Gospel of Christe , wee will not beleeue you . Therefore you waste but your winde to tell vs of any thing , that is not there to be founde .

O what an horrible doctrine is this to thinke any man ( the holiest that euer was , except Christe ) can doe such penance for sinnes as gods iustice requireth : you and they that thinke so are enemies to the crosse of Christ . Can any thing 〈◊〉 in heauen or earth satisfie Gods iustice for our sinnes , or els purge our sinnes but only the blood of Christ ? no no , if an Angel of heauen should say so , I would not beleeue him , or if the moste ancient or learned Doctour that euer was shoulde write so , I woulde vtterly abhorre his opinion therein . S. Iohn saith , the blood of Iesus Christe the sonne of 1. Iohn . 1. God purgeth vs and maketh vs cleane from al our sinnes . And S. Paul saith , Christ hath wrought the purgation of Hebr. 1. our sinnes . Saint Cyprian saith , Sanguis tuus domine non Cypri . de pas. Christ . quaerit vltionem , Sanguis tuus lauat crimina , peccata condonat : Thy blood O Lord seeketh no reuenge , thy blood washeth our sinnes , and pardoneth our trespasses . S. August . saith , Aug. in psa . 25 Valeat mihi ad perfectionem liberationis , tantum pretium Sanguinis domini mei : Let onely the price of the blood of my Lord auaile me to the perfection of my deliuery . Now if Christ doth purge vs & make vs cleane from all our sinnes , then there is none left for the fire of purgatorie to clense ; If Christ hath wrought the purgation of our sinnes , then I am sure your 〈◊〉 of purgatorie , ( if there were anie ) can not purge them better : If according to Saint Cyprian the blood of Christe washeth away our sinnes , then what neede haue wee of eyther your popes purgatorie or pardon : And if S. August desired that only the price of christs blood might auaile him to the perfection of his deliuerie : then why doe you bring S. Augustine in as an vpholder of your purgatorie ? If our sinnes might haue been purged by fire , ( as by your woordes you seeme to dreame ) then Christ woulde not so painefully haue purged vs with his blood .

You write a long circumstaunce of the saying of Saint Augustine , beginning thus : Neyther is it to be denayde Discou . pa. 29 that the soules of the dead are relieued by the pietie of Enchiridion . cap. 110. their liuing friendes , &c. In all the same hee doeth not once name purgatorie , much lesse prooue it . But what if therein Saint Augustine had made mention of purgatorie ? shoulde wee therefore beleeue there is a purgatorie , beecause Saint Augustine wrote it ? Nay , if Saint Augustine ( or any other ) wryte anye thinge of his owne fancie or 〈◊〉 , not commaunded nor commended by Christe ( as in the same hee doeth ) I will not beleeue him . And at this pointe I woulde wishe that all men were , to take all doctours and learned mens writinges for no better then fables ( in things touching our saluation ) if the same doe not agree with the worde of God . But though you woulde make your simple Reader beleeue that S. Augustine doth allowe your Purgatorie ( as hee doth not ) yet your Reader were very simple if hee woulde credite S. Augustine , if hee bee contrary to Christe , or affirme his owne 〈◊〉 cie not allowed by Christe .

The 22. part .

AND thus you say further , that you teach ( as it may 22. part . appeare in the councell of Florence in literis vnionis ) Discouerie . Pag. 28. that there are three sorts of men which dye , one very good , which goe straight to heauen , one very euill which goe straight to hell , one meane betwixte both which goe to purgatorie , &c. This your teaching may agree with the Councell of Florence , but I am sure it agreeth not with the councell of the Apostles , therefore beleeue you the councell of Florence , and wee will beleeue Acts. 15. the councell of the Apostles at Hierusalem . And whereas you bring in Saint Augustine for the prouing of your Puagatorie , I thinke I shall bring in S. Augustine , to say that hee knoweth no such Purgatorie , for heere 〈◊〉 affirme three places , heauen , hell and purgatorie , but 〈◊〉 the third place is one mo than Saint Augustine knewe of , if you will beleeue Saint Augustine himselfe , and these are his wordes touching the same , Primum 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Catholicorum , Aug. Hypognost . lib. 〈◊〉 . diuina 〈◊〉 oritate , regnum credit esse coelorum , &c. The first place the Catholike faith , by gods authoritie 〈◊〉 to bee the kingdome of heauen , from whence such as are not baptised are excluded : the second place , 〈◊〉 same Catholike faith beleeueth to be 〈◊〉 : where all runnegates , and whosoeuer is without the 〈◊〉 of Christ shal taste euerlasting punishment : As for any thirde place 〈◊〉 vtterly knowe none , neither shall wee finde in the holy scriptures that there is any such . Heere by S. 〈◊〉 sayings there is heauen and hell , but the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 hee knoweth not , and because he saith that it is 〈◊〉 to bee founde in the Scriptures : therefore it seemeth that hee woulde not allow any thing but that is to be found in the Scriptures . Wherefore you may bring what text you will of Saint Augustine for your purgatorie , but hee 〈◊〉〈◊〉 hee knoweth no such place : and it were requisite that hee shoulde knowe of the place , before hee can proue it . I thinke it had beene a greate deale better for the Pope to haue claimed authoritie ouer Paradise that is mentioned in diuers places of the Scripture , rather then purgatorie that 〈◊〉 speaketh of neuer a whit : and it had beene as easie to put soules into Paradise , as to pull soules out of purgatorie , and thereby hee might haue got money enough . But perhaps the Pope did doubt that the Angell that keepeth Paradise woulde not suffer these soules to come into Paradise , but rather keepe them out : and I doubt also that the Diuels that keepe your perillous purgatorie will not suffer these soules to come out of it if they be once in .

You say they that are very euill goe straight to hell . I am sure you cannot choose but count them very euill that 〈◊〉 did good deed in all their life , & such a one was the theefe that hangd 〈◊〉 the right hande of Christe , for hee was but then newely 〈◊〉 so that hee had no time to doe anye good , therefore hee beeing very euill , by your sayinges is gone to 〈◊〉 , notwithstanding Christe tolde him that hee shoulde bee with him that day in Paradise . Therefore I Luke . 23. must bee so holde heere either to reproue you or Christ . But because Christe the sonne of God , is to bee beleeued before a Iesuite the seruant of the pope : therefore your fantasticall saying heerein must needes goe for a fable . And if the saide 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not very euill , and thereby not of the number that went straight to hell : yet hee coulde not bee one of the 〈◊〉 but one of the meane sort that you meane , for hee did no such 〈◊〉 as you speake of for his sinnes as Gods iustice required and therefore by your doctrine he went to purgatorie , there to be purged by fire and so saued . But because Christe ( which is to 〈◊〉〈◊〉 before a Iesuite , ) saide that hee shoulde bee with him that day in Paradise , therefore , hee went neither to hell nor to purgatorie , but straight to Paradise . Thus you may see an vnlearned 〈◊〉 , hath confounded a learned Iesuite , in and by his owne doctrine , and thereby hath proued , that your meane 〈◊〉〈◊〉 both , doe not goe to purgatorie , and nowe because ( by your owne saying ) the very good goe straight to heauen , & the very euill goe straight to hell , and the meane 〈◊〉 both , ( whereof the theefe was one ) dying in the fauour of God , but did not as you say ) such penance as Gods 〈◊〉 did require , goe to Paradise , therefore none goe to purgatorie , and because none goe to Purgatorie , therefore it is not like that GOD made a place for no body : and so hereby I may conclude that your purgatorie is no 〈◊〉 , You may see plainely , howe fondly you wander , to goe 〈◊〉 bout to proue your purgatorie , without the authoritie of the Scriptures , therefore whosoeuer fauoure their owne 〈◊〉 , it will leade them to folly , and folly will bring them to falshood , and falshood will sende them to shame therefore if you will auoide your owne shame , bee no longer a 〈◊〉 for the popes purgatorie , for the pope would neither sticke nor stande 〈◊〉 as hee doeth : were it not more for the 〈◊〉 that hee getteth by it , then for any truth hee knoweth in it .

The 23. parte .

TO maintaine and defende the peoples honouring of 23. part . Discouerie . Pag. 54. the pope and kneeling to him : because you want Scripture you proue it by reason . But to make Christe of a Cake , there you refuse reason , & would proue it by Scripture . Thus when the Scriptures will serue the popes turne , then away with reason and let scripture come in place , but if 〈◊〉 bee against him , and reason will serue , then away with the 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 reason come in . Christe was as 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 knee led to as the Pope , and yet the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 taken in 〈◊〉 whom he saued from death , did not kneele but stoode before him . Nowe 〈◊〉 Christe the sonne of Iohn . 8. God looked not to bee kneeled to : for sauing of ones life , then the Pope beeing not altogether so good as Christe , shoulde not bee kneeled vnto , for bringing men to endlesse death . And also I am sure that the woman had more occasion to kneele to Christe for sauing her life : then the people haue to kneele to the Pope to receiue his blessing .

And though the Pope cannot claime his 〈◊〉 nor to go in his pontificalibus by scripture , neither can learn it either by the example of Christe or Peter : yet when no other way will serue , you will approue it lawefull with your owne reason : which wee must take 〈◊〉 a lawe , to plant the Pope in his pride . And these are your words concerning the same .

At certaine high festiuall dayes hee ( that is the pope ) Discouerie . Pag. 55. is borne from his palace into Saint Peters Church ( for at none other time or place is that thing vsed ) it is a matter so reasonable ( the circumstances considered ) as can be offensiue to no indifferent wise man , &c. The matter standeth thus , at certaine principall feastes of the Church , the Pope vseth to leaue his priuate chappell , and to come downe to seruice in Saint Peters Churche , at which time such great multitudes of people expect him there , to receiue his benediction , & very many also to see him which neuer sawe him before , being strangers and come from farre Countries to visite those holy places : as it is impolsible for him to passe in and out through the preasse , and to be seene to giue his benediction to al , except he should eyther ryde or bee borne in his chaire . And to ride it were very vnseemely and inconuenient hauing to passe through all Saint Peters great Churche , where the moste preasse is and also for the passages of stones and stayres . Wherefore they haue vsed alwayes , to lift him vp in his chayre , and so to conuey him through the multitude , and this is all the matter , which is so much exclamed at , &c. Which ( you say ) noteth rather malice in them that maligne it , then conuinceth pride in the pope that admitteth it , or any fault at all in the well meaning Christians , who vpon so iust causes doe both desire and offer it . For that Christe is the best patterne to followe of all other , and did neuer vse such pompe to bee borne on mens shoulders , neither in the temple of Ierusalem nor in any other place , and because the Pope is by his owne saying but Christes Utcar or Deputie : mee thinkes ( if you goe to reason ) that then the Pope should doe as his master did , and vse himselfe rather more humblie then his master , and not to passe in pompe and glory aboue Emperours and Kings , & more like a Soueraigne then a seruant . You alleadge reasons and causes why hee shoulde bee thus caryed on mens shoulders : but there is a greater reason that hee shoulde not doe so , because Christe neither did so nor yet commaunded him to doe so . I can shewe you a good reason why the Pope ought rather to goe on his feete then to bee caried on mens backes , and that is this , God hath giuen vs feete purposely to goe on , and legges to carrie vs : but God created not men purposely to carry the Pope . and also heere is an other reason , Christ was neuer carrted on mens shoulders , then it is not meete for the Pope being farre vnder him to be carrted many times on mens backes : Christe went on foote in as great thronges of people as the Pope , then it is reason that the pope goe in as great thronges of people as Christe : Christe the sonne of God rede but one day in all his life , and that was but on an Asse , then the pope ought not to presume to ride many dayes vpon men . The Jewes had more occasion to see Christ then the people haue nowe to see the pope , yet Christe rode not on mens shoulders that men might see him but hee went a foote : but the pope because hee will needes bee vnlike Christe , hee is borne on mens shoulders for that hee woulde bee seene : the pope must needes ryde in a chayre on mens shoulders , or els you say he cannot conueniently blesse the people : but Christ could helpe the blind , heale the lame , & doe good to all people , & yet went on foot , which did more good then the popes blessings , Little Zacheus Luke . 19. because hee would see Christe , did get him by into a tree : But Christe got him not on mens shoulders because hee woulde bee seene of little Zacheus . You excuse the Pope in this his ryding in a chaire on mens backs , because otherwise the people shoulde not receiue his 〈◊〉 . It seemeth hereby that the Popes blessing doth descende but not ascende , and falleth downe warde , but cannot goe vpwarde : So that if the people bee aboue the Pope , his blessing will doe them no good , but if the Pope bee aboue them , then it will doe them great pleasure , and so they shall neuer bee hungrie as long as they list not eate . Yea and by this your great reason , it seemeth that the Pope must see them whom his blessings must pleasure . You had neede take heed that your Pope bee not blinde , for then all the vertue of his blessinges is quite gone .

But whereas you make such a great necessitie , that the Popes on these festiual daies must thus be carried to blesse that people , I would know who 〈◊〉 this at their hands & who 〈◊〉 them doe it : who setteth them on worke : forsooth neither God in his worde nor Christe in his Gospell . I remember that Christ bade his Apostles goe into all the worlde and preache : but hee neuer bade the Pope ride on Math. 28. mens shoulders in 〈◊〉 Peters Church of Rome , to blesse the people . And now because God hath not willed the pope to ride thus 〈◊〉 on mens shoulders to blesse that people , neither Christe hath taught or commaunded him , to take such a glory vpon him , but cleane contrary to learne of him to bee humble and meeke . Therefore the Diuell the prince of pride , hath set him on worke , to ride thus gloriously & stately vpon mens shoulders , farre passing either Emperor or king , & therfore he must pay him his wages , for god will pay none wages , but suche as he setteth on worke , and that labour in that worke that he willeth them : whose worke is only to be found in Gods word , & whatsoeuer worke it be : if it be not there to be found , ( thogh it seeme neuer so good ) it is none of Gods worke . Wherefore all the reasons that you are able to bring , cannot proue the Popes 〈◊〉 & glorious riding 〈◊〉 mens shoulders , to hee so necessarie , as you woulde haue vs beleeue : because God neuer commanded it , neither Christ his sonne did vse it , nor allowed it . Therfore though you commend the pope for his pompe to be as the 〈◊〉 of Christe : yet you haue rather prooued him for his pride to bee Antichrist .

The 24. part .

AMong other of your exercises at Rome , in on of the 24. part . popes Colledges , you commend this that followeth , 〈◊〉 . Pag. 〈◊〉 . saying : In the beginning of euery month , they come al togeather in their hall , and there after some prayer made , eche man taketh by lot , a little scroule of paper , wherein three things are written , first the name of the festiuall day of some Saint of that month to come , Secondly some rare sentence of scripture , Thirdly some special thing which the whole Colledge much tendreth . The first is written , for that eche man shall take that Saint which falleth to his lot , for his peculiar protectour vnder God that month to pray for him : for which cause , eche man readeth the life of his Saint , and noteth some vertue but of the same for his owne imitation , &c.

Hereby it appeareth they cast 〈◊〉 who can happen on the best Saint to be their protector vnder god that month . They haue one good turne that it is but for a month , for they that happen on an 〈◊〉 Saint , may haply light on a better that next month . But I woulde faine knowe who taught or willed you to drawe lots for Saints to be your protectours : I am sure that neither Christe nor his Apostles taught it or vsed it : Therefore though the papistes and Iesuites doe so , yet wee that are Christians dare drawe no such lots . If Christe the sonne of GOD bee not a sufficient protectour : then I woulde wishe you to caste lots for the Saintes to bee your protectours : But surely in my iudgement , if Christ the sonne of God bee not able to protect vs , I can hardly beleeue that Saints that were but his seruants are able to doe it .

In deed the Apostles ( after Iudas had hanged himself ) , did Acts. 1. cause lottes to bee cast for a fellowe to bee ioyned with them in their Apostleship : But I neuer hearde that any of the Apostles did cast lots for to haue Moses , Dauid , or any of the Prophetes to bee their protectours either for a moneth , a weeke , or a day . There are certaine Heathenish people that haue a newe God or protectour euery day , for the first thing they see in the morning ( whatsoeuer it bee ) that they take for their God all that day . But you ( as it seemeth ) haue a better confidence in your Saints then they haue in their gods , for bee they good bee they euill , you keepe them for a month .

Marke in what diuelish dreames you are drowned , by refusing Gods worde : Doe you thinke that the Saints can protect you better than Christe ? Doe you thinke that they that could not be saued without Christ , can saue & defend you better than Christ : Can sinners and the sonnes of men , give you better than Christe that was sinnelesse and the sonne of God : How are you blinded : how are you be witched : Christ hath taught vs to pray vnto God , and shall the pope teache you to pray vnto Saints : Christe saith , Come vnto mee all Mat. 11. yee that labour and are laden , and I will ease you . He doth not say cast lots for the Saints euery moneth , that they may protect you and pray for you . But if the Saints of God might bee your protectours , ( as they cannot ) yet you had neede to take heede , for if the popes Saints bee mingled among them , you may chaunce hit of a Sathanist in steede of a Saint . And if you meane to imitate your Saint , such a Saint you may light on , that you may learne of him to bee rather a traitour then a true man .

I feare that some of you by your lots haue chaunced on Thomas Becket , in steede of Saint Thomas the Apostle : and then it is no maruell ( because you are bounde to imitate your Saint ) that you haue learned of him to bee disobedient and traytors to your Queene , as hee was stubborne and obstinate to his king .

I maruaile that you were not ashamed to write and publishe such a rydiculous exercise , and such a lothsume lotterie , doe you thinke that it can goe vnespied euen of them that be but young beginners in the Gospell of Christ : Can you perswade your reader that professeth christ and feareth God , ( though he be neuer so simple ) that God hath appointed the Saintes to be protectours vnder him : As Christ hath appointed the pope to be his vickar vnder him , so God hath appointed the saintes to be protectoures vnder him : for as true is the one as the other . Thus you thought you had muche commended your religious Romaines for casting lottes for the saintes : but you haue set forth their follie , for refusing of Christ .

The 25. part .

THough you woulde haue vs beleeue that you are godly , 25. part . and doe detest sinne , yet you goe about to excuse the pope as muche as in you lieth , in keeping vp his stewes , for these are your wordes , It is false that Disco . pag. 96. these curtezans pay tribute to the pope , and if they did ( as they do not ) yet were it a punishment , and not an allowance of their life , as when you make a catholike pay monie for his not comming to the Church , you do not allow thereby of his absence , but you punish him for it .

Surely the pope had neede rewarde you for finding out such a shift to keepe vp his stewes , you say if they paide a tribute , yet were it a punishment , and not an allowance of their life . You wil graunt I am sure that theft is no greater offence before God than forntcation or whoredom , nay it seemeth it is not so great , for that the punishment there of was lesse by Moses lawe . Nowe if a prince shoulde suffer his subieces to steale that woulde : So that they shoulde for their stealing pay him yeerely a tribute , & haue none other harme for their stealing : that same tribute were then but a punishment and not an allowance of their cuill life . ( If wee may beleeue you ) if theeues might haue none other punishment for 〈◊〉 but to pay yeerely a tribute therefore , doe you not chinke there woulde bee more the eues than there bee : yes I warrant you : Euen so seeing the yeerely paying of money to the pope is the chiefest punishement that the Curtezans 〈◊〉 for their whoredome , I thinke thereby there are not fewer whores in Rome , nor lesse fornication there committed .

And as they that should pay money as a punishment for stealing , woulde steale the ofter , whereby they woulde bee sure to haue enough to liue on , beside the summe appoynted for their punishment : So assure your selfe , the Curtezans and harlottes of Rome procure the more to sinne with them , because they will haue as muche as they can gette , ouer and besides the yeerely Summe they pay to the Pope .

Whiche you , verye aduisedly , allowe for a punishment for their facte , and not as an allowance of their life , for this is your reason , When we make a Catholike pay money for his not comming to Church , we do not allowe thereby of his absence , but we punish him for it .

This will prooue but a false Simile , though it showe faire at the first . You compare whoredome , which is wickednesse , to goyng to the Church to heare the worde of God , which is godlynesse . And so where wee paye money to the poore for not doing godly : your Curtezans pay money to the pope , for committing wickednesse . And further one may be absent and from the Church , and displease not God : but euery one displeaseth God that committeth whoredome . So that your Curtezans pay their money to the pope that they may sinne : but they that come not to the Churche with vs , pay money to the poore , because they doe not honour God . And thus if you marke this well , the paying of the whoores money to the Pope is to an euill end : but the paying of our money to the poore , is to a good ende . Therefore by these your former wordes , you thought to cast such a miste before your simple readers eyes , that the Pope doeth not euill in suffering the Stewes vp in Rome , nor in his taking money of them therefore .

But marke this well , doe you thinke , if there were a streete or two of protestantes in Rome , that the pope woulde suffer them to vse their religion , for paying him a certaine 〈◊〉 of money euery yere : and woulde he take that money as a punishment for vsing their religion ? I thinke not . If they shoulde offer him money in such a case , hee woulde not take it of them , because hee will not allowe them there to vse their religion : neyther woulde hee thinke that the payment of that money were a sufficient punishment for suche an offence . Therefore if the pope shoulde allowe the preaching and hearing of the Gospell by taking of money of the protestantes : Then the pope doth allowe whoredome in Rome by taking money of the Curtezans and harlottes there . And if the pope woulde not thinke it a due punishment for Protestantes to paye money to him for preaching and hearing the worde of God : then the paying of money to the pope by the Curtezans , can not be a sufficient punishment for their whoredome , which is diuelishe and damnable . Yet you and the pope can be content to punishe whoredom with paying of money . and to suffer them still to liue in the same : But the children of God that professe the Gospel , and that doe abhorre whoredome , may not be punished by paying of money , but euen with paying their heart blood , and with the losse of their liues . What a detestable doctrin is this of yours , that makes you thinke mony to be a sufficient punishment for whoredom : But torments & cruel death is scant sufficient for professing the word of God , which doeth vtterly for bidde and condemne whoredome .

The 26. part .

AS you went about to excuse the Pope in taking money of the Curtezans of Rome : so here you take vpon 26. part . you to defend the pope for suffering or maintaining his 〈◊〉 stewes in Rome , for these are your words that follow :

But here , before I passe any further , I must say a word or Disco . pag. 〈◊〉 two touching the stewes in rome , the permission whereof by the pope , & by other catholik princes in their cuntries , is accounted so heinous a matter by our adnersaries , as it may answered , but that wee thereby allowe of vnchaste life . Which is a most false and wrongfull charge , as may appeare by that which followeth . First the pope with all the Catholiks that euer wrote , condemneth and detesteth the acte of simple fornication as a deadly sinne and damnable to the doers without repentaunce . And our aduersaries shall neuer be able to charge truly our Catholike doctrine with the contrary .

It seemeth you woulde be knowne to be a proctor for the pope in the suffering and vpholding of his Stewes , and also for the Catholike princes , but if wee and these cuntreys that haue no such Catholike kinges as you meane , shoulde haue houses of stewes : your words import that you woulde not allowe vs nor them therein . Therefore the Catholikes haue a preeminence of the protestantes , for it is lawfull ( by your lawe ) for them to commit whoredome , and to haue Stewes , but for protestantes it is not Wel though the pope & you wil not allow vs to haue whores : yet God & his sonne Christ doth permit vs to haue wiues .

And if you take mee for an aduersarie of your religion , then I haue alredy charged you withall , and prooued in my saide booke called a perswasion from papistrie , yea and also in this booke , that your popishe decrees , your doctours and doctrine , doe not condemne it , but maintaine and defende it .

But lest you haue forgotten it , I will put you in remembrance with this that doth follow Laurentius valla being one of the Cannons of Rome ( and therefore one of your Catholike 〈◊〉 lib. 1. cap. 38. Church and doctrine ) wrote thus : Omnino nihil interest vtrum cum marito coeat mulier an cum amatore : Vndoubtedly there is no difference whether a woman keepe companie with her husbande or with her louer . And further it is thus noted in the decrees of the pope , qui non habet 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 . 34. is qui 34. loco illius concubinam debet habere : He that hath not a wife , in stead of her must or ought to haue a concubine . Parisiis anno 〈◊〉 .

Also the glose of the constitutions of Otho ( whiche will not I hope bee refused for a witnesse ) sayth thus , It seemeth that the Church ( of Rome ) ought to dissemble the faulte of whoredome , for the popes Marshall in deed receiueth tribute or pention of whores . Const. Othonis de 〈◊〉 . clericorum remouend . It seemeth that the Catholike wryter that wrote this glose , did not greatly condemne or detest eyther simple or double fornication , vnlesse dissembling or wincking at whoredom be a condemning or detesting of the same . Whereby it doeth not onely appeare that all your Catholike writers haue not condemned and detested simple fornication : but also that the Curtezans haue paide tribute to the pope , though you haue defended the contrarie .

Diuers suche I coulde bring , but these are sufficient for a taste , for you may feele by these howe sweete the rest bee . If such lessons as these condemne fornication , then the pope and all the Catholike writers that euer worte doe condemne and detest the same : But seeing Laurentius valla , that was one of your catholike religion , and these notes and gloses of the popes decree , doe allowe and maintayne it : then I haue both charged truely your Catholikes withall , and haue also prooued , that some of your Catholikes ( as you call them ) haue not condemned and detested simple fornication as deadly 〈◊〉 and damnable : but haue allowed and permitted it , as though it were no such damnable sinne .

Thus hereby it appeareth that your woordes are but winde , and that all your talke is not trueth . If your popes condemne and detest fornication , then why haue they giuen licences to keepe Concubines and Harlottes , as it hath been most manifest in diuers countreys . Nay in diuers places vnder the pope , the Bishoppes and officialls haue not Acts & 〈◊〉 . pag. 835. onely suffered Priestes to haue Concubines , so that they payde certaine summes of money : but also compelled chaste Priestes , or Priestes that woulde haue liued without Concubines , to paye tribute for Concubines , affirming that the Bishoppe had neede of money : whiche being payde , it shoulde bee lawefull for them eyther to liue chaste , or to keepe Concubines at their pleasure . Therefore I muste 〈◊〉 say , if licencing doeth signifie detesting , and allowing doeth signifie condemning , that then your Popes 〈◊〉 Catholike prelates , doe detest and condemne simple cation : But if allowing and licensing , doe signifie allowing and licensing , then your holy Popes and prelates haue allowed and licensed , both simple and double fornication .

Therefore I maruell howe you can without blushing , affirme that the Pope with all the catholiques that euer wrote , did condemne and 〈◊〉 fornication , as is before said , seeing the contrarye is so euident and manifest . The Stewes suffered at Rome , doeth argue that the Pope , doeth rather allowe fornication , then condemne or detest it .

Then you say further : Secondly , notwithstanding Discou pa. 99. this detestation , the ciuil Magistrate : may for the auoiding of a woorse inconuenience , tollerate or permitte this sinne in some degree , without fault , and without any allowing of the sinne it selfe : As GOD doeth tollerate with wicked men , and with many wicked actes in the worlde , which he detesteth , and might notwithstanding let them if hee woulde : and yet hee doeth not allowe of them , for that he permitteth them .

Though this be a Iesuites iudgement , yet we 〈◊〉 may not take it for gospel . Where haue you learned that the ciuil Magistrate may , for the auoyding of a worse inconuenience tollerate sinne in any degree that God hath forbidden , ( yea and that without fault ) 〈◊〉 it seemeth that you Iesuites can picke out more for mainteyning of whoredome out of the popes Iawe , then wee christians can learne out of Gods lawe , ( for by Gods lawe sinne can not be suffered without fault that we can finde . ) If this be true that you say , then the ciuill Magistrate may tollerate and suffer loyterers , vagaboundes and rogs ( that will not worke ) to steale , thereby to auoyde the inconuenience of hunger or famishing . But as worke and labour is the right remedie to expell hunger , and not theft or stealing : So marriage is the right remedie , of your inconuenience ( whatsoeuer it bee ) and not the suffering of the stewes or whoredome .

But I woulde faine knowe what woorse inconuenience it is , that will be auoyded , by suffering the stewes , or permitting this 〈◊〉 sinne of whoredome : ( for you keepe that secrete to your selfe , and haue not heere shewed it ) . Can there come any woorse inconuenience by not suffering the stewes , or by banishing whoredome , then whoredome is it selfe 〈◊〉 ( which God hath forbidden , and doth vtterly decest ) If you knewe well what inconuenience it were , I thinke you woulde haue vttered it : But because you conceale it , I will now reueale it . If your pope should put downe his Stewes , and not permitte whoredome : Then it woulde driue the fornicatours 〈◊〉 whores of Rome to marrie . This I perceiue is your inconuenience , that you count woorse then suffering the Stewes or whoredome . But though you Iesuits count marriage a woorse inconuenience then whoredom : yet Christ and S. Paul count whoredome a woorse inconuenience than marriage .

By your wordes that followe , it seemeth that you take it to bee as lawfull for the pope , and the ciuill Magistrates 〈◊〉 tollerate their Stewes and woredome : as for God to tollerate the wicked men of the worlde to commit suche wicked acts as they daily do . And so , because God suffereth such wicked sinners to liue ( as you thinke ) vnpunished : Therfore the pope may suffer the whores in his stewes to commit whoredom without controlement . Whereby it appeareth that you allow the pope to do as God doth , verifiyng thereby the saying of Abbat Panormiran , who wrote thus : That ( sinne excepted ) De elect . cap. licet . Abb. the pope can doe in a manner , all that God can doe . So that by this your holy Catholike doctrine , whatsoeuer God doeth or hath done , the Pope may claime to doe the like . As thus , God was angry with king Saul & thrust him out of his kingdome because he killed not king Agag at his commandement , being Gods enemie : now if that pope may folow God & do as he did , them he may displace such kings & thrust them out of their kingdoms that wil not kil his enemies the professors of Gods word at his commandement . I thinke by this example the pope learned of God to depose emperors & kings as they haue done . Also God suffered it not to raine of three yeeres and sixe monethes amonge the Israelites 〈◊〉〈◊〉 he was 〈◊〉〈◊〉 disobeying of 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉〈◊〉 your 〈◊〉 arguments the pope may keepe 〈◊〉 here in Englande without raine , with whome he is angrie because we disobey him and his lawes ( whiche he is not able to doe . ) If the Pope might or coulde do thus , as you seeme to allowe him : wee shoulde haue had neyther prince , prosperitie , peace , nor plentie , so long as wee haue had .

But though you allowe the pope to doe that that God can doe , in tollerating sinnes and wickednesse : yet God and the pope are farre vnlike in their tollerating and suffering the same . For whereas God doth tollerate and suffer wicked sinners to see whether they will repente and amende or not , who , if they doe not , then hee punisheth them , one way or other : The Pope cleane contrary , doeth tollerate and suffer the Curtezans and whores of his Stewes for money to sinne vnpunished though they neither repent nor amende . And whereas God doth not suffer them that he taketh for his louing children to sinne vncorrected : The pope suffereth his catholike Curtezans of the Stewes in Rome ( whom he taketh as his deare darlinges ) to committe whoredome dayly without any punishment . But I muse at this , that the pope can followe God in suffering of sinne : and can not followe him in punishing of sinne . For as God doth tollerate many wicked sinners : so hath he and 〈◊〉 dayly punishe many wicked sinners . But how can you proue that God doth 〈◊〉 tollerate wicked men to commit wickednesse , that he doeth not punishe them for it : nay I am sure that no suche wicked sinners doe escape Gods punishement : though the 〈◊〉 and whores of the Popes Stewes doe escape the popes punishemente .

For was not all the whole worlde drowned for their wickednesse , excepte Noah and his familie : was not zodom and Gomorra with all the Countreys thereabout destroyed with fire and 〈◊〉 from Heauen for their 〈◊〉 sinne 〈◊〉 with many 〈◊〉〈◊〉 and destroyed , as well 〈◊〉 as perticularlye , whiche were too muche for mee to 〈◊〉〈◊〉 And thoughe you thinke that God tollerateth many to commit such wickednesse 〈◊〉 , that hee detesteth , yet I am sure you cannot prooue that hee taketh money of them to permit them to sinne , as the Pope doth on the Curtezans in Rome , for their whoredome . And it may bee that some wicked men are 〈◊〉 punished of God that you thinke God 〈◊〉 tollerate to sinne vnpunished , for God doth correct and chasten his owne children though hee loueth them neuer so 〈◊〉 : ( for whom God loueth him hee chasteneth ) Nowe if God chasten and correct his deare and louing children , ( liue they neuer so vertuously ) will hee not punishe the wicked that wallow in detestable sinnes , though it seemeth to you , that he doth tollerate them to sinne vnpunished : One may be punished of God for his wickednes though a 〈◊〉 doth not know of it . God hath his secrete punishmentes in store for the wicked , which they shall taste when it shall please his diuine Maiestie . Yea and that which perhaps you take for no punishement , I take to bee the greatest punishment of all . Doe you thinke there can bee a greater punishment , then for God to giue men ouer to their owne lustes : And greedily to take pleasure in sinne and to wallowe in all wickednesse : I thinke not . And though you doe see them prosper dayly in health , wealth , pleasure and prosperitie , without any misfortune , ( as Policrates did that was one of the thirtie tyrants ) and though God should so tollerate them in their wickednes that he detesteth , shall they therefore escape his punishment thinke you : No I warrant you : for those that God 〈◊〉 suffer to liue so wickedly , and to drawe sinnes togeather as it were with 〈◊〉 , and to heape vp sinnes one vpon another , without any worldly plague or punishment , seeme to bee the children of wrath , and vnlesse they repent and turne to God , doubtlesse shal bee punished in the torments of hell , which farre exceed all the earthly punishments that can be deuised , and whereas the one continueth but a while , the other shall be for 〈◊〉 and neuer end . Therefore though God doth tollerate ( as you say ) with wicked men & with many wicked acts in the world which he detesteth : yet they are not vnpunished . therefore as you seeme to 〈◊〉 , vnlesse to be in the intollerable and endlesse paine of hell bee no 〈◊〉 but the whoores of the Popes Stewes are not punished of the Pope , whose sinnes it seemeth hee doth not detest but rather fauour , because hee suffeereth the same without punishment . And although God doth tollerate and suffer many most wicked & abhominable sinners vnpunished in this life to that sight of the world , according to his secrete purposes only known to himselfe : yet it is too much for you ( though you are a Iesuite ) to allowe the Pope to tollerate and suffer the wicked sinne of whooredome which the Almightie God hath flatly forbidden . Therefore you were best to councell the pope to let God alone in his doings , and not to presume to doe as bee 〈◊〉 , but to doe as hee 〈◊〉 , vnlesse you woulde haue him to clime into heauen with Lucifer as 〈◊〉 angell , and to fall into 〈◊〉 with him as a Diuell .

The 27. parte .

THen after you say thus . Thirdly 〈◊〉 a noughty & wicked 27. 〈◊〉 . thing may somtimes be necessarie , & consequently Discouerie . Pag. 99. tollerated without fault . ( The corruption and lewde inclination of men supposed ) If you learned this of Christe , I would haue you shewe where I shoulde finde it . If it be the Apostles doctrine I would know which of them taught it : But if it bee your owne deuise , ( as I suppose it is ) then I doe not take your wordes to be of 〈◊〉 authoritie , especially when they repugne the Scriptures 〈◊〉 these doe . Therefore I will be so bold to reproue the same with the wordes of Saint Paule , ( if he may be allowed for 〈◊〉 . 3. a sufficient authour against you ) who affirmeth , that their damnation is iust that doe euill that good may come thereof . Nowe if by Saint Paules wordes , we may not doe a small euill whereof great goodnesse may followe : Then the pope may not suffer shamefull Stewes for whoredome , which is a haynous sinne whereof great mischiefes doe come . And if their damnation be iust that permit a small euill whereof goodnesse may grow : Then their 〈◊〉 must needs 〈◊〉〈◊〉 that doe or permit many abhominable sinnes , that bring great mischiefes withall .

〈◊〉 it appeareth that you haue a deepe consideration of the corruption and lewde inclination of men , but to correct such corruption , Saint Paul teacheth vs saying : To auoid 1. Cor. 7. fornication let euery man haue his wife . But you that haue a deeper sight herein then S. Paule , think it is better if men bee full of corruption & lewdly inclined ) to haue Stewes set vp and suffred , that euery man may haue his harlot .

I would haue thought that a wicked thing & a fault had beene so nigh a kinne , that a wicked thing coulde not haue byn tollerated or suffered without a faulte . But now because you say so I must change my minde , & thinke , that one may sinne or suffer a wicked thing without fault . Doubtlesse you Iesuites haue a merueilous deepe learning , you haue heere loosed such a knot , and vnioyned such a ioynt , that neither Iesus Christ himself , nor all his Apostles did euer vndoe . A wicked thing may sometimes be necessarie with Iesuites , because idolatrie & blaspemie is counted most holy with them alwayes : but a wicked thing cannot be 〈◊〉 meete with true Christians at any time . Surely you haue waded very deepe , for maintaining of the Popes stewes , & his suffering of that same : yea & you proued very learnedly before , that if the Curtezans payed money to that 〈◊〉 , yet it were a punishment , & not an allowance of their life . But if one may be punished with paying of a noble for stealing xx . pound : I thinke that punishment would not make him leaue stealing .

The 28. part .

AND then you followe with these wordes . It appeareth 28. part . plainely by Saint Paule who saith , that 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Pag. 99. of necessitie must needes be : and by Christ , who affirmeth that scandales ( that is slanders ) must needs come , & yet neither Christe allowed of scandals , nor Saint Paule of heresies . If that pope allowed no more of whoredome then Christe did of staunders , nor Saint Paul did of heresies : his Stewes at Rome , woulde not haue beene so long vp , nor the curtezans there so long suffered . Mark how you goe about to beguile your simple Reader , as though these wordes of Christe or Saint Paule , woulde excuse the popes Stewes , or the Pope for suffering them : and as though the Pope in suffering the Stewes , did not allowe the Stewes . Christe nor Saint Paule did speake of slaunders or of heresies of any particuler Towne or Citie , where they had temporall or worldly power to suppresse the same , ( for they had no suche gouernment ) as the Pope hath at Rome . For if they had , they would not haue taken money of the scandalers or heretikes as a due punishment therfore : as the Pope doth for whoredome at Rome . ( which you excuse as a punishment for their euil life ) For though Christ had no worldelie authoritie , ( for that his kingdome was not of this Iohn . 18. worlde ) yet hee aduentured without any worldly commission , to beat out the buyers and sellers out of the temple , so much Math. 21. he did detest their violating of the house of God . But if Christe shoulde haue taken money of the saide chaungers of money , and so haue gone his wayes and let them alone : woulde it not haue beene thought that hee had allowed their doings therein for money : Yes I beleeue : Euen so whatsoeuer you say , the Pope doth allowe the whoores of Rome because hee taketh yeerely 〈◊〉 of them therefore , yea and is partaker with them in their sinnes and whoredome : For if hee did not allowe the Stewes and their whoredome , hee woulde whip the whoores out of Rome as Christe did the money changers out of the temple , and woulde either pluck downe the houses of the Stewes , or els put honest and vertuous women in them .

Thus though you woulde haue Christe and Saint Paul to defende and boulster the Pope , for suffering the stewes and Curtezans in Rome , yet neither Christe nor Saint Paule will serue your turne therein . Christe and Saint Paule are much beholden to you that bringeth them foorth as witnesses for the vpholding of Stewes and whoredome . you that are a Iesuit and maketh as though none 〈◊〉 Iesus more than you , should haue produced Iesus in an honester cause then this , whatsoeuer you had done by S. Paul : but you are so farre in loue with the Pope , that to make him seeme honest , you sticke not to aduenture to make Iesus Christe vnhonest : and to couer the Popes shame , you would defame Christe . Surely when Christ was heere on earth and vnglorified , hee spake against whooredome , and doe you think that hee being nowe in heauen and glorified , will bee a boulsterer of whoredome : Christe saide when hee was heere , Whosoeuer looketh on a woman lusting after her , Math. 5. hath committed aduowtrie with her alreadie in his heart , and do you thinke now that he can suffer whoredome it self : If you loue Iesus , then bringe not Iesus forth to mainteine your Popes Stewes and the whoordome in Rome .

The 29. part .

AND further to allowe the Pope in permitting the Stewes and whoredome you bring this reason , saying , 29. part . I might aske , why the protestants in England doe permit Discouerie . Pag. 99. vsurie by their lawes , that is , doth not punish men for taking vnder ten of the hundreth ? I perceiue you Iesuites haue rype wits to defende the Popes Stewes , and to approue his taking of money of that curtezans for their whoredome , to bee lawfull . It is a strange matter , that you can learne by our positiue lawes to mainteine the popes stewes and to allowe whoredome : but by our diuine lawe the Gospell you cannot learne to put downe the stewes , and to reprooue the Pope for suffering of whooredome . What our Princes lawes doe heerein permit , I haue not to dispute with you : but this I will say , where can you approoue , that any streetes with vs are appointed for vsurers to dwel in as you haue for whores in Rome : Or that they haue any special houses to commit vsurie in for paying therefore a yeerely tribute to our Prince , as your Curtezans haue to commit whoredome for paying a yeerely tribute to the pope : or it commonly knowne of vs where to borowe money vpon vsurie , as euery one great and small doe & may knowe at Rome where the Curtezans doe dwell , where any may play the whooremonger for money that liste : no I am sure . If wee haue any vsurers , our Prince doth not know where they dwell : but you haue allowed Curtezans in Rome , and the Pope knoweth where they remaine . And moreouer they that lend money in this sort with vs pay no money therefore to our Prince : But the Curtezans in Rome , pay money for their whoring to the Pope . So that , it is the tribute and money that the Curtezans paye yeerely to the Pope , that maketh him to suffer the Stewes in Rome .

The 30. part .

YOU say that wee must needes answere ( for that wee 30. part . doe permit vsurie in taking vnder x. li. in the hundreth ) Discouerie . Pag. 100. that wee allowe not of the sinne , but that wee doe it for auoyding a greater inconuenience : which is , least by punishing al vsurie , ( as the Catholike Churche doth ) no man woulde lende any money at all . In deede I must needes say that no perfect and pure Protestants doe allowe the sinne of vsurie : but I am sure the Pope doth allowe and permit the sinne of whoredome in the stewes at Rome , because hee may redresse it and will not . And where you say wee doe it least by punishing all vsurie no man woulde lende any money at all : So by your owne argument , your Pope will not put downe the Stewes nor banish the whores of Rome , least no man shoulde commit any whoredome there at all . This is the great inconuenience I perceiue that your Pope meaneth to auoyde by maynteining his Stewes and Harlots in Rome , you may see howe the Diuell doth instruct you to confounde your selues .

The 31. part .

YOU say that there is no Prince in al the world which 31. part . doth or can vse more meanes , then the Pope doth , to 〈◊〉 . Pag. 101. drawe all men from that vice and to reforme those miserable women themselues . &c.

If the Pope haue the knowledge of all lawes in his brest , and such a heauenly iudgement as he maketh men beleeue hee hath , then I muse that hee can finde no meanes to bring this his great desire to passe , surely if he would follow the example of our late king Edward in two points : he should not need to vse so many needles meanes as he doth . That is , to pluck downe the stewes , and also suffer his Priestes and Prelates to marrie , as King Edwarde did : Then he shoulde drawe men from that vice and those miserable women from their filthie liuing . But as long as hee forbiddeth Priestes to marrie , and suffereth the Stewes , and taketh money of the Curtezans as a punishment for their sin : ( as you say ) hee shall neuer diminish it but rather encrease it let him deuise what meanes hee can .

And though hee persuade them by Preachers as you say , and yet permitteth them for money to continue in the same , it is as though a master shoulde persuade his seruant and giue him great warning that hee shoulde not robbe his neighbours Orchardes : and yet when he hath stollen aples out of them , his saide master is content to take and eate parte of the apples that hee hath stollen , and neuer blameth him for his offence . For though the Popes Preachers persuade the Curtezans to refuse their whoredome as you say , yet the pope takes part of their money that they get in committing their whooredome , & neither punisheth nor chideth them for the same . Whereby they will refuse their whooredome no more , then the said seruant wil leaue stealing of apples . Thus you like a learned Iesuit haue gone about to excuse the pope in suffering the stewes at Rome , & for taking yeerely money of the Curtezans for their abhommable liuing , counting it a punishment for their sinne not an allowance of their fault . But if you had been a true and perfect Christian , you would haue accused the Pope for mainteining and permitting such detestable dealings , which Gods word and the Gospell doth vtterly condemne .

The 32 , part .

WHereas you write that the societie of the Anuunciata 32. part . ( in Rome ) doe burie strangers and Discouerie . Pag. 112. poore people which die in Rome , causing masses to bee saide for them , &c. For their charitable burying of strangers and poore people , and their other charitable deedes they are much to be commended , so that they doe them not for a deseruing reward at gods hand , or as meriting workes : But for causing masses to be said for them , they are vtterly to be reproued , for that Gods woorde doth neither commaund it nor allow it , nay it is directly against Gods worde , and it is iniurtous to the precious passion of Christe , and therefore in any wise not to bee vsed , as is proued in my said booke called a persuasion from papistrie .

The 33. part .

LAst of all you say , I will adde one thing in testimonie 33. part . of the Romans pietie and deuotion , which many in Discouerie . Pag. 115. England , will rather laugh at than imitate : which is , that vpon Maundie Thursday before Easter , they vse to goe to S. Peters Church late in the night , whipping them selues vntill the blood streame from their bodies . They go ; their faces all couered , except only two holes to looke out at , & vpon their bodies they haue only a shirt of sackcloth cut so behind , that their shoulders appeare naked , where , with whipeorde they beate them selues , for more then the space of one houre together . They goe commonly aboue 600. in a companie . The Societies of the 〈◊〉 S. Marcellus , and of the Confalons are chiefest in this matter . And they are eche of them an hundreth commonly euery yere . Nowe the beaters goe in order , two and two , and betweene euery two beaters , goe two other with torches . To see onely this spectacle were a matter to mooue any man whatsoeuer . Besides these Societies , many priuate men doe punishe them selues very grieuously in this holy weeke , for their offences past . Who couering their faces in such sort , as they may not be knowne , they goe to all Churches of the Citie or the most parte , beating them 〈◊〉 pitifully , vntill the blood doe runne from them in great quantie &c.

This I perceiue you haue colde vs , whereby wee maye knowe howe full of pietie and deuotion the Romanes are , but as Christ the sonne of God knewe best of all other what is true pietie and deuotion : so hee neuer tolde vs , neither the Euangelistes wrote of any such pietie and deuotion , as this which you say the Romanes vse . Saint Paule wrote a great large Epistle to the Romanes , and yet he did not touch any whitte of such whipping pietie in the same . Eyther Saint Paul did forget to writ of this your whipping pietie 〈◊〉 deuotion in his said Epistle , or it was not worth the writing in his epistle , or els your pope hath deuised a better pietie & deuotion than is in Saint Paules Epistle . And nowe for that Christ neuer taught any suche whipping pietie or deuotion , neither the Apostles euer did preach any such whipping pietie or deuotion , nor yet any of the Euangelistes did euer write of any such whipping pietie or deuotion : then surely according to your doome , I thinke many Englishe men wil rather laugh at it than imitate it . But truely , I iudge it rather to bee lamented then imitated or followed . As these your godly Romanes doe goe before Christe , because they whippe them selues before he hath bid them : Euen so they whippe them selues a day before Christ himselfe was whipt . For by your saying they whip them selues on maunday thursday , and Christ was whipt as the next day after which commonly is called good Friday . Therefore as wee Christians may count that for our good Friday , because as then Christ was whipt and shedde his blood for our sinnes : so you Iesuites and Romanes may counte maunday Thursday , for your good Thursday , because you whip your selues and shed your blood then for your offences . But though you Iesuites or Romanes are ashamed in whipping and shedding your owne blood for your owne sinnes , as it seemeth , for that you couer your faces that you woulde not be knowen : yet Iesus Christ the sonne of God was not ashamed to bee whipt & scourged , for other and not for him selfe , and to shed his heartblood , for the sinnes of all faithfull Christians , because his face was vncouered that euery one might see him and knowe him . It appeareth that your holy and vertuous Romanes , that whippe themselues and shedde their owne blood for their owne sinnes , neither regarde Christes whippinges . nor stande neede of his blood to washe away their sinnes : But wee that are faithfull Christians doe whollye cleaue and sticke to Christes whippinges , and the shedding of his innocent blood , for the putting away of our sinnes and offences . I woulde fayne knowe who taught you to whip and scourge your selues and to shedde your owne blood for your offences ? where haue you redde it ? In what Scriptures can you finde it ? what Apostle hath preache it ? or what godly Doctor hath declared it ? if our owne whippinges might pardon our offences , or shedding of our owne blood , coulde washe away our sinnes : Then what neede Christe the sonne of God haue come out of his heauenly and ioyfull kingdome to this earthly and sorowfull prison , and of a God to become man , and to be whipt and shedde his blood ? Can Christ haue any greater enemies than you , that thus blotte out his blood and painefull death , which did it onely for sauing vs out of hell ? and applie that to your owne whipping and blieding that is onely due to Christ , and that none can 〈◊〉 but he ?

This I will tell you , whether you be 〈◊〉 , or what euer you be , you that thus whip your selues , yea though you whippe al the blood out of your bodyes , for the putting away of your offences : neyther Christes whipping , nor his blood will doe you any pleasure , vnlesse you leaue this whipping of your selues , and trust onely to his whippings and to the shedding of his blood . You that thus whippe your selues for your owne offences , you make your selues your owne Christes : And they that are their owne Christes , shall neuer dwell in heauen with Christ .

The mother of Christe was as able to bee her owne Sauiour as you , and yet shee neuer whipt her selfe nor shedde her owne blood , but trusted in God to bee her 〈◊〉 , saying : My soule doth magnifie the Lorde , and my spirite doeth reioyce in GOD my Sauiour .

Here you may well perceiue that shee trusted not to saue her selfe by whipping of her selfe : but shee trusted to Iesus Christe that was whipped for her , to bee her Sauiour , yea though he were her owne sonne .

You haue written on the firste side of your booke 〈◊〉 woordes , ( whereof before I haue entreated something ) There is none other name vnder heauen giuen vnto 〈◊〉 wherein wee must bee saued . And that is the name of Iesus . Nowe , vnlesse you that thus whippe or punishe your selues are called by the name of Iesus : then howe can your whippinges saue you or put away your offences ? for I am sure that fewe or none of your holy . Romanes that thus whippe them selues , are so called , then howe can 〈◊〉 owne whippinges saue you , or put away your offences , for that hee must needes bee called Iesus , that can and must 〈◊〉 vs . Marke howe you are wounded with your 〈◊〉 weapon , and strucken downe with your owne staffe . Thus though you seeme to fauour the name of Iesus : yet with your doinges you altogether derogate and dishonour Iesus . I do muse that you that haue redde the scriptures , and count your selfe to be so learned in the same , that you can once thinke 〈◊〉 these whippers of themselues ( though the whip 〈◊〉〈◊〉 from the and the fleshe from the bones ) ! can thereby put away their offences : Nay therby they encrease their offences , offending God thereby most heynously . Truely I can not but maruell that you were not ashamed to put it into your booke , commending thereby the Romanes pietie and deuotion : Considering the Christian reader must needs thinke , that thereby they procure their vtter destruction by going about to put away their sinnes by their whipping , and shedding of their owne blood , whiche onely Christ can doe and none els . Saint Paul was scourged three times with roddes , but he neyther whipt him selfe as your deuoute Romanes doe , neither did hee say that his 〈◊〉 or sinnes was put away by the whipping of his body : though your Romanes ( by your owne sayinges ) doe whip them selues verie grieuously in the weeke before Easter for their offences past . But these your holy Romanes after Easter and all the yeere after may sinne as freshly as euer they did : for what need they care seeing one dayes whipping of them selues , will put away a hole yeeres offences . Eyther your doctrine is verye false or you are very fooles , for if you can whip away your sinnes , then what neede you feare the popes perillous 〈◊〉 : And if you may put awaye your offences by your whippinges while your are aliue , what neede you pay money for masses when 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 : And if you haue whipt away your sinnes before your death , then what sinnes haue you for the masse to release after your 〈◊〉 : you thought by this your whipping 〈◊〉 to extoll your Romanes for their 〈◊〉 but thereby you haue blased abroade their follie and madnesse .

You say to see onely this spectacle were a matter to moue any man whatsoeuer .

In deede this spectacle mooueth mee , though I see it not , to bewaile the 〈◊〉 foolish and bewitched Ramanes , that with their 〈◊〉 , driue them selues such a pace to the diuell , that hee may whippe 〈◊〉 them in the endelesse paynes of helt : for the ofter they thus whippe themselues , the faster and speedilier they driue themselues to the diuel , if this their whipping woulde helpe them to heauen , the Diuell woulde make them more slowe in whipping them selues . Therefore howe madde are your romanes that take suche paines to goe vnto hell , where the tormentes are endelesse , and the paines neuer cease . I pray God they may leaue whipping of them selues , and trust only to the whippings of Christ : And to cease to shedde their owne blood for their offences & to put their whole trust in Christ , that was whipt and shedde his precious blood for the sinues of all them that euer shall be saued . This is your holy religion that you and your Seminaries seeke dayly to sette vp heere in Englande by your priuie practises and secrete sedition , to the destruction of your prince and countrey as you hope , but to your owne confusion I am sure , as you may see if you will , and some haue felt against their wills .

The 34. part .

YOu say in the commendation of your Church of Rome 34. part . as followeth . Albeit priuate olde men may lacke wit , Disco . pa. 136 yet Chirstes olde spouse which is the Church can not . If al be true that you say , then it is so in deede , for you bring none other autour but your selfe , neyther any argument for proouing of the same . It is impossible but that your olde spouse shoulde be verie full of witte , if they haue such wise Cardinals and pregnant pillers as Petrus Asotus and Hosius Hosius 〈◊〉 . were , that affirmed that the same Councell wherein our sauiour Brent . lib. 20. Christ was condemned to die , had the holy ghost , and that the same was a iust decree wherby they pronounced that Christ was worthie to die . Moreouer he could not chose but Disti . 13. be full of wisedom , that wrote vpon the popes decree , that the Item in marg. Iewes had committed mortall sinne , if they had not nayled Christ to the Crosse. These members of your holy mother your olde spouse were no fooles I 〈◊〉 , that tooke parte with Annas and Caiphas against Christe . They might well haue diuelishe witte , but I am sure they had no godly wisedom . In deed the true Church of Christ which is gouerned , and taught by the holy ghost can want no godly wisedome : but your Church of Rome ( whiche you counte Christes olde spouse ) hath and doeth lacke both learning wit and honestie as before it doth manifestly appeare .

That pope was very full of witte , ( which you counte the chiefe of your Churche , ) that gaue iudgement and sentence , that they at Ratilpone in Germanie , and the Abbay of Saint Denise in Fraunce , had both the whole bodye of Saint Denise at once as is before mentioned . He had more witte than Salomon , for Salomon coulde make but one childe into two halfe children : but your sayde profound and wise pope , made one Saint Denise into two whole Saint Denises . Belike the Pope thought that seeing euery simple and raskall priest coulde make Christes bodie at one time to be in many places : them he being the prince of al priests was able to make the body of S. Denise to be in two places .

And further your olde spouse of Rome can want no wit , because it can not erre if it woulde , and no maruell , for it can haue the holye Ghost in the likenesse of an Owle to instructe it , for in one of your late Councelles in Rome as they were singing and roaring of Veni creator spiritus , that is Nicol. de Clauengiis . Come holy ghost , &c. by and by ( at their becke and calling ) a poore olde Owle amazed with the noyse , ( thinking belike shee was the holy ghost that they called for so earnestly ) leapt out of the hole where shee sate , and came downe in the middes of them , and sate amongst them . Thus you may perceiue that there is a great difference betweene the Spirite of God and the Popes holy Ghost . For God the holy Ghost discended and appeared to Christe in likenesse of a faire white doue : but the popes holy ghost did discende and appeare to the Pope in the shape of a foule euill fauoured owle . Surely they are fowlie ouerseene that wil not be guided by your Churche that is taught and instructed by suche a holy ghost . Your olde spouse can neuer want 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 inspired by such a holy spirite .

The 35. part .

AFter this your discouering of Maister Nicols manners 35. part . and learning to his reproche as you thought , and commending your owne follies , you discommend and goe about to discredite my sayde booke called A perswasion from papistrie . But though you decide it without any reprouing or consuting therof : yet I haue so reproued and confuted such partes of this your discouerie as I thought necessarie , & was meete for me to do , that you are so vncouered , that the wise may see that you daunce naked in a net , though you thinke your selfe well enough couered . And these are your wordes concerning the same . Of late in the Discouerie . Pag. 1 83. middest of our persecutions , there came forth a waightie worke of 40 sheetes of paper , made by one Thomas Lupton , entituled a perswasion from papistrie , he woulde haue said a diswasion , but that papistrie and perswasion began both with a letter . I must needes confesse my sayd booke was not published very long since , it is so lately come forth , that it seemeth you had no leasure to peruse the same as you shoulde , for if you had red it as aduisedly as many haue done : you woulde not ( I thinke ) haue derided it as you haue done . You say , it came forth in the middest of your persecutions . It came forth at such time as it had pleased God to giue me his instrument leaue to finishe the same : for of my selfe , ( I am most certayne ) I neither began it , proceeded in it , neither finished it . For if a sparrowe light not on the grounde without Mat. 10. Gods prouidence : then the penne of a man Gods image doth not light on the paper without Gods direction , that writeth in Christes cause and indefence of Gods worde .

But that it was in the middest of your persecutions I hardly can thinke , for that it were requisite that they shoulde beginne , before they be in the middest . In deede her highnes doth not persecute you as queene Marie did vs , yet shee hath power to punish you much more than shee doth .

And because you haue written in derision agaynste my sayde booke , whiche I am nowe in hande to defende , I will nowe write some parte of my wordes therein touching this time which you call the middest of your persecution . And these are my wordes .

If you would marke but her maiesties power , and knew Asperswasion from papistry pag. 50. 51. what shee may doe , and weyghe your owne dooynges , and what yee ought to doe , truely you woulde say then that shee is the moste miledest and mercifullest Queene one of them that euer raigned . You thinke not a misse in her grace and counte her not vnmercifull though shee put theeues to death for stealing , whiche GOD hath not commaunded to bee punished with death : and can not you see that her Maiestie is marueylous mercifull , in that shee suffereth you to liue , for disobeying Gods woorde , and committing Idolatrie , whiche GOD by his lawe hath commaunded to bee punished with death . King Iosias 〈◊〉 the idolatrous Priestevpon 4. King . 23. the alters that committed Idolatrie , and yet hee is reckoned for a Godly king : But our mercifull Queene Elizabeth hath not burned the popishe priestes on the alters where they committed idolatrie in saying of Masse , and worshipped a piece of breade for the bodie of Christe ( which shee might haue done if shee would ) and yet you count not her for a godly and mercifull Queene . You praise and extoll Queene Marie to the heauens for vsing crueltie , and for burning her humble and faultlesse Subiectes : But if our 〈◊〉 Elizabeth shoulde vse lawefull seueritie on her stubborne and disobedient people , Gods foes and her enemies that desire her death and destruction , the confusion of their countrey , and the ruine of this Realme , you woulde dispraise and slaunder her , and say shee were a cruell tyrant .

Nay for all her highnesse hath vsed you so mildely and mercifully as shee hath done , yet some of you woulde darken her desertes ( if you coulde ) in sayinge moste spitefully and falsly , that this is the time of tyrannie , these are the daies of persecution , this I graunt , but not in Englande , though you meane in Englande . Truly suche as doe say so , must needes I thinke speake against their conscience and knowledge : vnlesse they take mercy for crueltie , and crueltie for mercie , and then I may say vnto them as Esay saide to the Iewes , Woe bee to you that cal euill good and good euill &c. If this bee the time of tyrannie and persecution , when you that are manifest enemies to your Queene and countrie before well proued are suffered to liue peaceably , to inioy your goods quietly , to goe at your libertie , or imprisoned to fare daintily , and there to liue merily , or to bee releast vpon suretie : Then what was Queene Maries time , when her simple , humble and faultlesse subiectes were cruelly imprisoned , in stocks and chaines & other engins tormented , most tyrannously racked , their friendes to come to them not suffered , on the bare boordes and ground lodged , to haue penne and inke and candle light not permitted , for want of meate to bee famished , in prisons priuily to bee murthered , and abrode in euery mans eyes to bee burned .

That time of Queene Mary to all wise men , may rather seeme to bee the time of crueltie , tyrannie , and persecution , than this milde and mercifull time of our Queene Elizabeth .

I beseech God to open your eyes to see howe her grace doth persecute you , for if you did see ( yet I feare some are blinde for the nonce ) you would then say , that shee persecuteth you none other wise , than the louing father doeth his childe , and as the good scholemaster doth persecute his scholler that hee would faine haue to learne . Thus much concerning your now persecution , I haue declared in my said booke , whereby it may plainely appeare , that yours is rather a pleasant pastime then a painfull persecution , to that that the Protestants felt in Queene Maries time : therfore you cannot 〈◊〉 say that my said booke came foorth in the middest of your persecutions , but in the middest of your easie and carelesse liuing .

The 36. parte .

YOU call my saide booke a weightie worke of fortie 36. part . sheetes of paper . The proud and learned Scribes and Discouerie . Pag. 183. Pharisees and the other common people thought the 〈◊〉 two mytes were but of a small value : but in that sight Luke . 21. of Christe they were counted great for that it was all shee had . Euen so that my saide simple booke ( being al that I was able to doe ) may bee counted light in your iudgement , but before God I am sure it is so weightie , that it will weigh downe all your learned bookes that you write for the maintenance of the Pope & your Romish Church . And though in 〈◊〉 you name it a weightie worke : yet I haue proued in good earnest that the booke wherein you deride it , is but a very light worke , for that this my answere hitherto hath weyed it cleane downe . But though you count it a very simple and light work : yet I must content my selfe there with , for so the Popes learned Doctors counted and estemed the Scriptures . For Ludouicus a Canon of the Church of Ludouicus citatur ab illirico in Norma concilii . Laterane in Rome openly in an Oration pronounced in the late Conuenticle of Trident for the mainteining of the decrees where of you are so deepely sworne , saide as followeth . Ecclesia est viuum pectus Christi : scriptura autem est quasi mortuum Attramentum : The Church is the liuely breast of Christe : But the scripture is as it were dead inke . The Bishop of Poiters in the same your godly counsell of Trident Iohn Sleidanus lib. 23. saide thus : Scriptura est res inanimis , & muta , sicut 〈◊〉 sunt reliquae leges politicae : The scripture is a dead & dumbe thing , as are all other politike lawes . To this ende writeth Albertus Pigghius , Si dixeris haec referri oportere ad Albertus pigghius controuer. 3. de Ecclesia . iudicium Scripturarum , &c. If thou say , these matters must be put ouer to the iudgement of the scriptures , thou shewest thy selfe to bee voide of common reason . For the scriptures are dumbe iudges and cannot speake . Eckius Martinus Kennitius in examine con. Tridōtini . pag. 32. called the Scriptures Euangelium Nigrum , & Theologiam Attramentariam : The blacke Gospell and inken diuinitie . Furthermore in the discommendation of the scriptures Pigghius writeth thus : Sunt scripturae vt non minus Pigghius Hierar . lib. 3. cap. 3. fol. 103. vere , quam festiue dixit quidam , velut Nasus cereus , qui sehorsum , illorsum , & in quancunque volueris partem , trahi , retrahi , fingique facile permittit : The scriptures as one man both truly and merily saide , is like a nose of waxe , that easily suffereth it selfe to be drawne backward , and forward , and to be moulded and fashioned , this way , and that way , and howsoeuer yee list . Thus reuerently did your Doctors of your Romish Church write of the most holy Scriptures . You wrote immediately before these wordes , It is a world to see what pillers of defence they haue got , what graue writers in their cause , what bookes they suffer to come out against vs dayly . But may not I say to you and that more rightly and truly : It is a most lamentable thing both to see and to heare , what pernicious and pestiferous pillers , your Church of Rome hath , and what impudent writers you haue in your cause , and what beastly bookes your holy father and you doe suffer to bee in printe and goe abrode , wherein the holy Scripture and worde of God is made a iesting and 〈◊〉 stocke : The simplest , the vnlearnedst , & the youngest writer that is or euer was amongst that professours of the Gospell , may be counted graue writers , in comparison of these your nowe mentioned doctours . Whatsoeuer you count of our writers , you neuer founde that wee wrote so vnreuerently and so decestablie of the holy worde of God the tryar of all truth , as these and other of your Romishe graue writers haue doone . These your graue writers might be auncient and graue men to see to : but they haue written most childishly , 〈◊〉 , fondly , falsly and diuelishly . It is not the grauitie of the person that maketh the writing graue , but the graue and true writing shewes the grauitie of the person : therefore if you consider well , your graue pillers that wrote as is before , in that defence of your church : you haue no great cause mockingly and restingly to call vs graue writers , as though none but they of your 〈◊〉 can be graue writers .

And now for that your Popes pillers and your graue writers , doe call the scriptures which is the holy woorde of GOD , dead Inke , a liuelesse letter , a dumbe Iudge that cannot speake , a blacke Gospell , inken Diuinitie , and a nose of waxe , whereby they tooke the holy Bible not to bee any weightie worke , but a booke of small importance and very light : ( though it bee the weightiest worke of all other ) then it is no maruell , though you count my booke to be a very light worke . But I feare ( if you turn not to the Gospell from the Pope , as my saide booke doth 〈◊〉 persuade you ) that it ( as light as you make it ) will proue heuie against you at the last day , and then ryse as a witnesse against you Iesuites , as the people of Niniuee that repented at the preaching of Ionas , and the Queene of Saba , shall ryse and witnesse against the Iewes , that repugned or withstoode Christe . For if the dust that the Apostles did shake from their feete shall bee a witnesse against the vnbeleeuing and wicked Iewes : then it is not vnlike but that my said booke , which doth 〈◊〉 persuade you to imbrace the Gospell , shall be a witnesse against you obstinate and incredulous Iesuites . Though my said booke be fortie sheetes of paper , yet you haue not confuted any one worde thereof , neither approued that there is any lye in the same , ( though in pour margent you write Luptons lyes ) and whereas you haue written scant the fourthpart of one sheete in deriding & discrediting my said boke of fortie sheetes , without confuting or reprouing any one part of that same : I haue now written aboue twentie sheetes of paper , against you for deprauing and slaundering the same , wherein I haue most manifestly reproued , diuers partes of your 〈◊〉 booke of Discouerie , besides the defence of mine owne booke .

If I had left my name out of my boke as you haue done yours : you could not so rightly haue hit of the same . But as they that haue a true and iust cause in hande neede not feare to vtter their name , ( as I am most sure I haue ) : So they that deale vniustly , & take partiu a vile and noughtie cause , are glad to hide their name as nowe you haue doone . Which concealing of your name doth not a litle discredit your cause .

The 37. parte .

BEcause I haue intituled my said booke , A persuasion 37. part . from papistrie , therefore it seemeth you iudge that the 〈◊〉 is vtterly disgraste , and for that you would haue it knowne , that you are able to teach or rather controule mee , you say I would haue saide a diswasion , but that papistry and persuasion began both with a letter . Who would haue thought that it had lyen in a Iesuite to knowe what a Christian woulde haue said , your name doth import that you shoulde bee well learned , but I would neuer haue iudged vntill I did heare it of your selfe , that you had beene so deepely learned as to knowe a mans thought , you say ( as shall appeare heereafter ) that it seemeth I haue been some Musicion , but whatsoeuer I haue beene , it is not vnlike but that you haue beene or are some fortune teller : for you that can declare a mans thought , can easily tell folkes their fortune . It seemeth to mee that as the Pope hath a heauenly iudgement in his breast , so you haue worldly mens thoughtes in your bosome . But least you shoulde take too deepe a conceite in your knowing of mens thoughtes , to put you out of doubt you haue myste of my thought , it was neuer in my minde to say a Disuasion . I know not your age no more than I knowe your name , but it may bee that before you euer knew any letter of the booke , that I knewe the difference betweene persuadere and disuadere . And now that you haue myst my thought , I will not sticke to tel you 〈◊〉 thought .

Because my whole drift in my saide booke is to persuade you and all other to Gods worde from Papistrie , 〈◊〉 for that in my iudgement the title woulde haue beene too long , if I shoulde haue saide , A persuasion to Gods worde from papistrie , I thought it good , ( for the shortnesse of the title ) to leaue out Gods worde ( as a thing to bee vnderstanded ) and to intitle it a persuasion from Papistrie , as I did in deede , thus I haue not onely shewed you that you haue myst of my thought ( as good a Clarke as you are ) but also my very intent and thought in intitling my saide booke , as it is . And though I coulde not sufficiently proue the contrary , but that there had beene some errour in this woorde Persuasion , and that the sense did require this word , Disuasion , ( whereby it ought to haue beene a disuasion from Papistrie ) : yet you knowe , this worde Disuasion is seldome or neuer vsed especially among the common people , for whose sakes I made my said booke as wellas for the learned . And as I wrote it to allure Papists to Gods worde , so I made it to make protestants & the simple people to shun papistrie . For euery one saith commonly vpon occasion , I persuaded him from play , I persuaded him from drunkennes , I persuaded him from stealing , I persuaded her from folly , and such like : and not I disuaded him from play , I disuaded him from drunkennesse , I disuaded him from stealing , or I disuaded her from folly , so that this is to be considered , that : Loquendum & scribendum cum multis , Sapiendum cum paucis . Therefore , if I had vsed persuasion , which the most doe knowe and vse in steede of disuasion , which fewe doe vnderstande and vse , though there had beene some small errour by ouersight , as by good foresight there was none , ( as before is well proued ) : yet mee thinkes you being a Iesuite and a professour of Iesus , shoulde rather haue borne with an ouersight or an vnwilling errour , then to write and publish that for a faulte which is no fault at all .

But if you had not contrould me thus in the intiteling of my booke , rather of malice then of matter , and of curiosity than of cause , to the disabling of my learning the more to extoll your owne knowledge : you your selfe woulde not haue offended in the like , yea and that so manifestly , that by no meanes you are able to excuse it . For in the 110. page or side of your said discouerie , ( being the seuenth leafe of G. the second side & second line ) you haue discouered your own vnhonest dealing , in these wordes that follow : Therefore haue Discouerie . Pag. 100. the noble matrones of Rome procured an other house , called Casapia , behinde Pantheon , where these women may come for a time to proue what they will resolue vpon , in which time the said matrones , doe omit no 〈◊〉 to persuade them from all dishonestie for the time to come &c. Heere a Christian hath taken a Iesuite napping , for you say that the matrones do omit no meanes to 〈◊〉 them from all dishonestie . I knowe not what law you haue amongst you , but I wolde thinke it is as lawfull for a Christian to say a persuasion from Papistrie , as for a Iesuite 〈◊〉 say a persuasion from dishonestie . Therefore where you write , I woulde haue saide a disuasion , but that papistrie and persuasion began both with a letter , now do I write that you shoulde haue said disuasion , because dishonestie and disuasion begin both with a letter . And as you thinke that papistrie beginning with a P. did put mee in minde to say persuasion because it beganne also with a P : So I thinke that dishonestie beginning with a D. shoulde like wise haue put you in remembrance to haue saide disuasion because it began also with a D. And as by your words I had some occasion to say a persuasion from papistrie , because papistrie and 〈◊〉 began both with a letter : yet you had no suche occasion to say a persuasion from dishonestie , because dishonestie and persuasion begin with contrarie letters . Thus as the wicked through Gods goodnesse fall many times into the same pits that they make for the Godly : so you being a Iesuite are 〈◊〉 fast in your owne snare , which you laid for a Christian .

In this your disabling of my skill in the intitling of my said booke , thereby to bring your owne knowledge in credit , you haue gained as the vaine glorious Priest did , that ( to encrease his own glorie in learning ) controuled a young scholler Marke this . for speaking true latine . Which was thus , a man hauing a sonne at home with him whom he had put to learning , beeing very desirous , to know whether he had profited well or not : desired the Parson or Uicar of the Parish to examine and appose his said sonne . And then the said Priest ( being both curious and vaine glorious ) askt the young man what was latine for a Prieste ? To whome hee answered , Sacerdos , no saide the Prieste , therein you are deceiued : For who hath the chiefest learning or wisedome but priests : Therefore Sapientia is a very fit latine worde for a Prieste , wherewith the sober and wise young man held him content , then immediatly the Priest seeing a Cat , saide to the saide young man , I pray you what is latine for a Cat : The young man answered him that Catus was Latine for a Cat , no said the Priest a Cat hath very sharpe nailes , and therfore Asper is the right latine worde for a Cat : whom the young man did not contrarie . And the saide Priest as hee was sitting by the fire , askt the saide Scholler what was latine for fire : Forsooth said hee Ignis , that is not so saide the Priest , for when a man commeth in very colde , what maketh him more glad then a good fire : Therefore there is no fitter name for fire then Laeticia , all which words the Scholler kept well in his minde , but yet saide nothing . Then as they al walked abroade after in the yarde , the Priest espying a ponde or ditch with water , saide to the Scholler , what is latine for water : Then the Scholler tolde him that Aqua was latine for water , no saide the Priest you are wide , for as there is a merueilous great aboundance of water aswell on the maine lande as in the deepe and brode Sea : so the best latine word that can be for water is abundantia , and as they walked a little further the Prtest espying a barne , saide to the scholler , tell mee what is latine for a Barne : then the young man saide that Horreum was latine for a Barne , that is not so saide the Prieste , for what greater ioy can bee to a man than to see his Barne full of corne : Therefore Gaudium is the true latine woorde for a Barne . When the Schollers father hearde , that the Prieste contraried his sonne in euery thing that hee askt him , hee was very angrie with his sonne and saide , all that hee had spent on him was in vaine . Sir said the Priest your sonne will do wel enough , he hath not yet the yeeres to atteine to our learning . And thus he made the simple & vnlerned man beleeue , that he had controuled his sonne rightly , whereas he did it but to set forth his owne vaineglory ( as you haue done ) . This young scholler remembring well the priestes new latin , thought to controlle him with an example without any argumentes , though the priest controlled him with blinde argumentes without any example , and so , soone after hee gotte a Catte and tied a fire brand at her tayle , and put her into the priestes barne that was full of corne , and when he had so done , he came to the priestes windowe and cryed aloude saying , O sapientia , sapientia , Asper currit cum Laeticia , & nisicitius veneris cum abundantia , nunquam intrabis in gaudium . Which is by the priests own deuised latine , ( but not according to true latine ) O priest priest , the Catte doeth runne with fire , and vnlesse thou come the sooner with water , thou shalt neuer enter into thy barn . But for that the priest had forgotten his owne latine , and tooke the same woordes truely as they signified in deede , whiche is O wisdome wisdome , sharpe runneth with gladnes , and onles thou come the sooner with aboundance , thou shalt neuer enter into ioy , the Priest sturde neuer a whitte , for hee had cleane forgot the signification of his owne deuised latine , whereby his barne and all his corne was burned . And thus as the priest gayned but litle , for controlling the Scholler when he sayde true : so you haue not gayned much in controlling mee for the intiteling of my booke . And if it was a great fault in the priest to forget fiue words of latine which he taught the yong scholler : then it is a fowle shame for to forget one Englishe worde , wherein you controled me . And if it were a shame for the priest , for refusing his owne latine , wherewith vayne gloriously hee discredited the scholler to his father , and tooke the true meaning of the schollers woordes : then it can be no great praise to you to refuse your owne Englishe woorde , whiche you wrote vaynegloriously to diseredite mee to all the whole realme , & to vse my word that you reproued me for . Thus I trust I haue defended the title of my booke called A perswation from papistrie , and sufficiently answered you for your curious comtrolling me , because I put not in 〈◊〉 for perswation .

The 38. part .

AFter this your controlling of the title of my booke , these are your wordes that followe : Of this authours estate and calling I can not yet learne , but that hee 〈◊〉 . part . seemeth to haue been some musition in tyme , for Pag. 183. that much of his matter 〈◊〉 from him in ryme . You can not yet learne of my estate and calling you say , what remedie , I trust you shall wel enough hereafter . But you haue one great aduantage of mee , for you knowe my name and so doe not I yours , whereby with trauell and searche you may learne my estate & calling : but with al the trauel & search that I am able to make , I can not learne neither your state nor conditions , because you hide your name . I thinke you haue left your name out of your booke because you would not haue vs learn your state and conditions . Though you knowe not my calling , for all you knowe my name : yet I thinke I knowe your calling though I knowe not your name . I take that your calling is to be a Iesuite and to bee one of the Popes sworne disciples : in which your calling though you reioyce , doubtles you haue a great cause to mourne & lament , if you deeply wey and consider your execrable oth . I haue a calling also though not great in the sight of the world , ( wherefore I thinke you esteeme my worke the lesse ) Euen Iesus Christ the Sonne of God that called Peter and Paule and the rest of the Apostles , hath called mee . ( I thanke his diuine Maiestie for it ) where vnto I firmely beleeue that I was called before the foundation of the worlde according to the sayings of S. Paul , for we knowe ( saith hee ) that all thinges worke for the best vnto them that loue god , which also are called of purpose , for those which he knewe before , he also ordeined before , that they shoulde be a like fashioned to the shape of his Sonne , that he might be the first begotten among many brethren , And whom he appoynted before , them also he called , and whom he called , them also he iustified , whom he iustified them also he glorified . Rom. 8. Which calling I take to bee no simple nor smal calling , nay it is a higher calling then to be called to bee eyther pope or prince : for thereby I am called to bee one of the members of Christ , which assureth mee , that the body and head 〈◊〉 at length bee together . And for that Christe my heade ( whereof through Gods goodnesse I am a member ) is nowe in heauen and shall raygne as a king there for euer : then I one of his members and part of his bodie shall raigne for euer with him in heauen . This is my chiefe calling I thanke God . Now if I bee called to bee an inheritor of such a kingdome which is the kingdome of heauen passing all other kingdomes , then my estate can not be simple nor small : for he that hath an estate of inheritance , in the kingdome of heauen ( as I beleue verily I haue through Iesus Christ ) that greatest emperor hath no such inheritance on the earth , the fee simple of the best Lordship in the world is not comparable to it .

Nowe you haue learned both my estate and calling , which I my selfe haue tolde you , that you shoulde take no further trauell nor paynes , in learning my estate and calling : for it seemeth by your saying , that you meane to trie out my estate and calling , for that you say as yet you can not learne it , as though you doubt not but at length to find it out . Therefore briefly ( to saue you some trauell ) I me selfe haue shewed you my estate and calling .

It may bee that this that I haue tolde you is not my estate and calling that you are so desirous to learne , but my worldly calling and estate : which if you did knowe , then it seemeth you woulde worke wonders . For then belike you woulde confute my booke , which confuting , perhappes you keep in store vntill that time : Thinking belike it is not worthie of confuting vnles it were made by some profounde leaned doctor , or one that is of some great estate & calling . But if young Daniel , though hee was neyther doctor of diuinitie , neyther of any great worldely estate or calling , both confounded and condemned the two learned wicked iudges that were of great estate and worldely calling , that sought the death of innocent Susanna : then why may not I , though I am neyther a profounde Doctour , neyther of any greate estate or worldely calling , haue sufficient knowledge , to confute and confound with the word of God , your Iesuitical or papisticall doctrine and the popes deuilishe Doctors , that persecute , kyll and murther the innocent members of Christ the professours of the Gospell : or els it may bee that the confuting of my sayd booke consisteth in the knowing of my calling and estate . You were best neuer learne my callinge and estate , and so you may haue a very good excuse , not to trouble your selfe with the confuting of my booke . But if I thought you staied from confuting of it for lacke of knowledge of my worldly calling and estate : I woulde my selfe describe the same at large vnto you , but I hope there is no such misterie , in confuting , vnlesse it be found out of late by the sincere societie of the Iesuits .

Yet that you may haue some better gesse of my calling and estate , I will say thus much vnto you ( if it will doe you any pleasure ) I am neyther preacher nor minister ( I would to God I were apt or able for such a worthy function ) neyther prebendarie , deane , archedeacon , parson nor vicar , neyther haue nor yet euer had , any liuing or worldly profite or commoditie by any of the same : Therefore I trust to escape the name of a notable and infamous liuer , wherwith of your courtesie you haue intitled our preachers and ministers .

But if my not being a preacher or minister will not saue me from your slaunder , I must arme my selfe paciently to suffer it , for as long as I doe not deserue it , I care the lesse , ( beseeching God that I doe not ) I had rather a great deale you shoulde speake euill of mee then say well of mee , for this I am sure of , that you wilfull and determined papistes , and sworne or rather for sworne Iesuites , ( as long as you are so ) can not commende a good protestante nor disprayse an euill papist : therefore if you shoulde commende me , I must become a papist , from which God defende me , or you must bee protestantes , which I beseech God to graunt , wherefore I may reioyce if you speake euill of me , for then I am sure to be a professor of Gods woorde : but I may lament if you say well of me , for then I am sure I shoulde be a papist , and an enemie to the Gospell . If you coulde prooue that I haue been a traytour , a murtherer , a drunkarde , a bearer of false witnesse , and maker of discorde , an oppressour or an extortioner or any such notorious malefactor ( whiche I thanke God you can not ) that shoulde not daunte me neyther make me once to shrink , but should cause me rather to reioyce not that I had been such a sinner , but that God of his goodnesse had called me , from being a fauourer of vice to be a louer of vertue , and from a seruant of Sathan , to bee a childe of God .

Saint Paul was not ashamed to tell openly yea more Actes . 22. then once or twise , that he persecuted the saintes of God then 1. Cor. 15. which there can not bee a greater offence : yet he did not reioyce Gal. 1. therein , but in that God called him to the Gospell and that hee was persecuted as one of the saintes of God , and therefore with Saint Paule I am not ashamed what I haue been , but I reioyce that God of his goodnes hath opened vnto nice the light of his gospel , so that neither slander , reproch , neither any thing shal dismay me , for that I am made a member of Christ , and I say with S. Paule when I mas a childe I spake as a child , I vnderstood as a child , I imagined as a child , &c. But now through Gods grace and goodnes , I am that I am . And if I had bin neuer so euil , yet I may reioyce 1. Cor. 13. to come from euil to be a professor of the gospell & the seruant of God : rather then you to shrinke from the gospel ( though you liued blameles in the sight of the worlde ) and now to become Iesuites reuolting from our sauiour to satan , & from your prince to the pope .

The 39. part .

YOu say , that he seemeth to haue bin some musition in ( time , for that much of his matter passeth from him in time . 39. part . You that can tell before hand what one woulde say : you are able quickly to turne prose into time . It is a strange matter that you that perhaps haue not read my booke through , can finde that the most of my matter therein is rime , when I that made it am most sure there is not one verse of rime in it . I thinke you are as well skilde in prose as some of your popes was in grammer , eyther you were in some pleasant dreame when you wrote this , or you neuer read my said booke , or els surely you do not knowe prose from rime . I thinke you doe take latin verses to be english rime , & so you may haue some rime to charge me with all . I remember I wrote two verses of Baptista Mantuanus in my said book , and that were these .

Viuere qui sancte cupitis , discedite Roma , Perswasion from papistry . Omnia cum liceant , non licet esse bonum .

If these latine verses be the ryme you ment of , ( for other pag. 111. rime there is not in all the booke ) then I must needes confesse that some part of my matter is rime , but not much of my matter as you say , vnlesse two lines bee much matter in fortie sheetes of paper , and then the sheetes must be very small , or els the two lines must be marueilous great . I thinke in deede much of the meaning of my matter in the same booke , is conteyned in the sayde two latine verses : For all the Idolatrie , blalphemie , pride , mischiefes and errours , that I perswade you and all other from in that booke , is committed and practised in Rome , and therefore the effect of muche of my matter conteined in my saide booke , is comprehended in the sayde two latine verses , which belike you tooke for Enlishe rime . And because I woulde haue you to consider the same well , I will now turne the same latin rime into plaine english prose : which is this that foloweth : All ye that would liue godly , get you away from Rome : for whereas all thinges there are lawfull , it is not lawfull to bee good . This is the prose of all the latin rime in my sayd booke , for other english rime I am sure there is none . If you marke this rime well , it showes that your holy citie of Rome , is more meete for Iesuites then for Christians . I thinke you pickte a quarrell with mee for the nouce to make me shew you the rime of my booke . Because you would haue me to praise your holy citie of Rome , you haue in your discouerie made great long discourses in commending the godly customes & charitable works of your citie of Rome : but Baptista Mantuanus here in two lines hath extolde her out of measure .

Well , though you say that much of my matter in my said booke is rime , & no rime at all therein : yet your hole matter wherin you haue 〈◊〉 forth my riming , is nothing but time . for these are your wordes , wishing the indifferent reader to marke whether the same be rime or not . Of this autors estate and calling I can not yet learne ,

But that he seemeth to haue bin some musition in time , for that much of his matter passeth from him in rime .

Though you would make men beleue that my prose is rime : yet the indifferent reader can not thinke , that your rime is prose . It is a great ouersight in you to say that much of my matter of fortie sheetes of paper is rime , and can not prooue that there is one verse of 〈◊〉 in all the hole booke : which you haue affirmed only in two lines , & yet both the same lines are nothing but rime .

You would haue me euill thought of for riming , though I rimed not at all : and can you be well thought of that reprooueth me with nothing but rime :

It appeareth here by your learned and aduised writing , that I haue been a musition because of my runing : then I trust I am discharged from being a musition because in my sayde booke I haue not rimed at all . Surely it seemeth that you haue a deepe and mysticall iudgement in the finding out of the grounde and causes of things . I remember that before it showed plainly by your argument , that the going of M. Nicols from Wales to England , from England to Flaunders , from Flaunders to Rome , and from Rome to the pulpit in the towre of London was the cause that he was borne at cowbridge in wales , as in the same place it may more plainly appeare .

And as by your learning you founde out that M. Nicols comming from Rome to the pulpit in the towre of London was the cause he was borne at Cowbridge in Wales : so by your deepe knowledge , you haue I perceiue founde out , that my riming is the cause that I was a musition . For your own wordes showe no lesse which are these that followe .

He seemeth to haue bin some Musition in time , for that much of his matter passeth from him in rime . Hereby it appeareth by your rime , that if I could not haue 〈◊〉 , I had neuer bin a 〈◊〉 . Therefore it 〈◊〉 happie I 〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or els farewell all 〈◊〉 and singing . But I woulde faine knowe of you whether the cause is to be preferred before the effect or not , 〈◊〉 is better then the effecte : the 〈◊〉 cause I am sure you can not denie but that it is aboue the effect , marie as for 〈◊〉 causes , the effecte sometime may excell the cause , nowe if the cause bee better then the effecte , then a 〈◊〉 is to bee esteemed aboue a musition : So that 〈◊〉 be the cause of musicke , ( which you 〈◊〉 before to bee the cause that I haue been a musition ) and if the cause bee to bee 〈◊〉 before the effect , then a rymer is better than a musition . And so , a common rymer is better thou the best singing 〈◊〉 of the popes holie 〈◊〉 . But they woulde not bee well pleased with you , if they knewe that by proouing me a musition , you make them worse then the simplest 〈◊〉 that is . And if the cause which is riming , bee not better then the effect , which is musicke : yet doe or say what you 〈◊〉 , the cause muste needes bee before the effect . So that by your proouing mee to bee a musition because of my ryming : the rymer must needes bee before the 〈◊〉 . And so one can not be a musition vnlesse he be a rimer before .

But herein I thinke your argument will not holde , for I am sure there are and haue been , many excellent 〈◊〉 that coulde ryme neuer a whitte & And many also haue been good rymers , and were but single 〈◊〉 singers , and had no skill at all in musicke .

Thus it is plaine that many are 〈◊〉 and no 〈◊〉 : and many are musitions and 〈◊〉 rimers . But by this your prouing of mee to be a musition , hee that is a musition must needes first bee a 〈◊〉 , because you make riming to be the cause of musicke , so that your argument must needes bee false . Wherefore hereby 〈◊〉 doeth appeare , if you had 〈◊〉 mee to ryme so muche in my booke ( as I am sure I rimed neuer 〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) 〈◊〉 I 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 in musicke for all that .

And now seeing 〈◊〉 you haue gone about to prooue by my saide booke , that I am a rymer : I doe not thinke that you haue made suche a 〈◊〉 lye to commende mee withall , whom causelesse you goe about to discredite . Therfore it appeareth that you charged me with ryming to your simple Readers , ( who you thought woulde neuer reade my booke ) thereby to make them thinke , that I that made the booke , had but small learning , because I had skill in ryming . But to haue skill in making of an englishe verse , maketh not therfore to bee vnskilfull in learning and knowledge . I knowe there hath beene and is at this day , that were and are excellent in making of English verses or meter , and yet notably well learned both in the latine & greeke tongues , yea and in diuers Sciences . Doe you thinke that they that wrote the Psalmes of Dauid into Euglish meter , were therfore vnlearned : Nay it is euident that they were well learned , and had knowledge in the tongues , for the conference of the textes and concordance of the wordes . But seeing ( as I thinke ) you much regarde not the Psalmes in English prose , you lesse esteeme the same in English meter . But though you esteeme not English meter , or decent ryming in English : yet you may perceiue ( if you be so skilful in 〈◊〉 as you seeme ) that king Dauid the Prophet of God , made Psalmes in 〈◊〉 verse , agreeing in proportion , number and syllables , though not altogether in accent or sound . Now if the prophet of 〈◊〉 king Dauid 〈◊〉 that 〈◊〉 in Hebrwe verse by the spirite of God : then why may not we Christians , 〈◊〉 good or godly things in 〈◊〉 meter : Yea and translate these 〈◊〉 into english meter that Dauid at the first made and wrote in 〈◊〉 verses .

If you 〈◊〉 our writers of English verses , then you seeme thereby to discommend them that wrote Greeke and Latine verses , and then Homer the Greeke 〈◊〉 , and Virgill , and 〈◊〉 excellent Poets and 〈◊〉 , with Ioannes Aurelius , 〈◊〉 and other , that wrote learned latine 〈◊〉 , are 〈◊〉 beholden to you . For , as you 〈◊〉 make me an English rymer : so you account them as latine rimers . But perhaps you will say , that they were not rymers but 〈◊〉 , for that their verses did not ende in ryme as ours doe . This will not serue your turne , for though they did make their verses without meeter : yet diuers learned men wrote their latine verses in latine meter . As Arnoldus de villa noua that wrote thus of the 〈◊〉 fire .

Primus formetur , vt sensus ei dominetur , Sensibus equato , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 secundo , Tertius excedit sed 〈◊〉 tolleruntia ledtt , Destructor sensus , nescit precedere 〈◊〉 .

Also Marculinus 〈◊〉 thus ,

Firmans mutatum , pregnatio spondet hiatum , Quae bene purgantur , concordipace ligantur .

An other writeth thus ,

Est fons illimis cuius latet 〈◊〉 in imis , Carmina Geber . adscripta . Euolat in primis , nisi clausis vndique rimis .

Therefore if you would haue me disdained for ryming in Englishe : then these learned men are to bee misliked for ryming in latine . But I trust you will not disable mee and other for our english riming , vnlesse you meane thereby to bring Pope Vrban the 5. in discredite , that did sende an Agnus dei vnto the Emperour with these ryming verses following ) , I may not say that the same conteine 〈◊〉 and blasphemie : thogh they attribute that to the Agnus dei , that only is due to the passion of Christ . And here followeth the verses .

Fulgùra desursum depellit , & omne malignum : It is in the popish Primer . Peccatum frangit vt Christi sanguis , & angit : Pregnans seruatur , simul & partus liberatur : Dona defert dignis , virtutem destruit ignis : Portatus munde , de fluctibus eruit vndae .

And now , if it were no discredite to Pope Vrbans 〈◊〉 . ning to set foorth these verses in latine ryme : then I hope it will not bee a hinderance to my learning to declare them in english meeter . Wherefore I will bee so bolde to set foorth the wonderfull vertue of Pope Vrbans Agnus dei , wherby the 〈◊〉 may see , that the Popes Agnus deis can do as much in all points as the blood of Christ , and here followeth the vertue of Pope Vibans Agnus 〈◊〉 .

It puts away the furious force at neede , Of lightning and of euery euill beside : As Christes owne blood it breaketh sinne with speed : It vexeth feendes , they cannot it abide : The woman great with childe it doth preserue , And causeth safe deliuerance of the same : It brings good giftes , to such as doe 〈◊〉 : It doth destroy the power of firie flame : And such as were the same both cleane and fayre , If they doe chaunce in sourging waues to fall : His vertue is such , they neede not then dispaire , It pulles them 〈◊〉 and saues their life and all .

Saint Iohn Baptist when he said Ecce Agnus 〈◊〉 , Behold the lambe of god , did neuer speake of al these vertues of his Agnus dei . Surely many of you Iesuites doe neuer weare the Popes Agnus deis , or els they haue no suche vertue , as pope Vrban and many of you wold make vs beleeue , for if your Agnus deis can pull men out of the water , & saue them from drowning : then they may plucke men from the 〈◊〉 out of the 〈◊〉 hand , and saue them from hanging . So that I muse that Doctor Storie , 〈◊〉 , Sherwood Ducket , and Campion with other ( that had no small deuotion to the popes Agnus deis ) would bee without suche a precious iewel at the gallowes , that would work such wonders . But it may be they were so wearie of being the popes vnfortunate seruants : that they had rather be hangd to be his happie Saints .

And I trust you wil be no more offended with me for my riming in my said 〈◊〉 ( where I 〈◊〉 neuer a whit , them 〈◊〉 Ioannes a Casa 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , that was Deane of pope 〈◊〉 Chamber for his booke in Italian Ryme , which is to be 〈◊〉 & abhord , for he wrote that same most 〈◊〉 in commendation of that 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 sinne , which procured Gods wrath so much , that therfore he destroied Zodome & Gomor with 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 from heauen : which vile & detestable booke , was printed at Venice by one Troianus Nauus . For if one of your Popes holy and chaste Prelates may commende most detestable and wicked sinnes in Italian ryme , then why shoulde wee bee derided or euill thought of for writing good and vertuous thinges in English meeter :

Therefore ( all thinges before written well considered ) honest ryming and modest meeter is not so discommendable a thing as you woulde make it : Though to my reproch vntruely you went about to proue mee a rymer . But by your prouing mee a rymer I haue proued my selfe none : though in your owne two lines you haue shewed your selfe a rymer , for all your wordes that you reproued me for ryming , is nothing but ryme .

And whereas you woulde faine haue proued me a Musition because of my ryming : surely I cannot see for all your ryming that you haue any great skill in Musicke , for that it seemeth you are vnskilful in the ground or causes of Musicke , in that you count ryming to bee the cause of Musicke .

Musicke may stand without ryming , better then 〈◊〉 can stand without Papistrie : for one may bee a good 〈◊〉 though hee can ryme neuer a whit , but one cannot be a Iesuite vnlesse hee bee a Papist . If you had saide thus , it woulde haue hangd a great deale better togeather .

It seemeth that the Gospell pure , he earnestly doth loue , For that the papists with the same , he doth so much reproue .

For , the reprouing of Papistrie with the Gospell is a better cause that I loue the Gospell , then my ryming is a cause that I shoulde be a musition . But now though you haue shewed so slender a cause that I haue beene a Musition : I will shew you a better cause , that you are scant a true subiect . And this it is .

You Iesuites are no subiectes true , it may right well bee seene : For that you doe obey the Pope , and disobey your Queene .

This your refusing to obey the Queene , and to obey her enemie the Pope , is a more likely cause that you are no true subiectes : then my ryming ( whereas I rymed neuer a whic ) was the cause that I haue beene a musition . If you had not taught mee to ryme by your ryming , I had not rymed heere at this time : but for that I am desirous to bee a Musition , I am nowe the more willing to ryme , whereby I hope shortly to bee a Musition . For you being a profound and learned Iesuite haue taught me that riming is the cause of Musicke .

Whether you ment to disgrace mee for being a rymer or a Musition I knowe not , but seeing in derision you woulde proue me to bee both : I thinke you would not haue mee commended for either . And as you woulde haue me disdained for ryming which is your cause of Musicke : so you woulde haue mee despised for musicke which is your effect of ryming . Yet there is no reason in it , for why should you 〈◊〉 Protestants more for beeing Musitions : then wee disdaine 〈◊〉 for being minstrels . If you were as reasonable as you are preposterous , you woulde not disdain a man for his Musicke : but the Musition for his euill manners . Our Englishe musitions are as muche beholden to you , as our Englishe versifiers are . But this I will say in the 〈◊〉 of our musitions of England , I am sure there are 〈◊〉 honest musitions in England , then there are true and faithfull Iesuites to their Prince and Countrie , either in or out of Englande . Musicke was wont to bee counted a 〈◊〉 and worthie science : and is it nowe become so vile , that he that hath knowledge in it shoulde thereby bee discredited : There is a saying not so olde as true , Scientia non habet inimicum praeter ignorantem . Or thus , Tantum scientiae inimicus est ignorantia . The enemie of science is only ignorance , which sheweth that your knowledge in musicke is not great , because you enuie the musition , and woulde haue my booke discredited because of my musicke .

I neuer knew that it should bee a reproch to any for hauing knowledge in musicke : but many haue been discommended for their vnskilfulnesse in musicke . In disdaining mee for beeing a musition : you discommend thereby all musitions , or that haue knowledge therin , or applie themselues to the sludie thereof . But though you goe about to discredit my booke by Iesuiticall coniectures that I haue been a musition , yet I trust you will not discredit king Dauids booke of Psalmes ( the Psalter ) though he was a musition , for hee played excellently wel on the Harpe , and did sing to the same , which doth argue that he was a musition , and had skill in musicke . Your Priestes haue made fooles beleeue that your holy water woulde driue away spirites out of houses and men : But I am sure that king Dauids musick did ease 1. Kings . 16. king Saule and thereby the euill spirite departed from him .

Nowe if you will haue the Popes Priestes to bee esteemed and reuerenced for their casting of their holy water , which wil not driue away Diuels , but chase away myse : ( as one of your friendes hath affirmed ) then musitions ought not ( by reason ) to bee had in such derision that are skilfull in that famous science of musicke , whereby the euill spirite departed from king Saule . You would make vs the worse because wee know musicke : but your musicke is the worse because you doe knowe it . For Dauid by our musicke droue a deuill out of a man , but your misticall musicke filleth thousandes full of Diuels . It is saide that Orpheus had such excellent sweete and pleasant musicke , that with the melodie of his Harpe hee woulde make dead stones to daunce , and seeme to bee aliue : but your Papisticall musicke , will make the liuing dead to Godwarde , yea and to die the second death . And moreouer it is feined by the poets that by the vertue of musicke proserpina and the hellishe furies were brought out of hell into the earth : but you Iesuites with your mournefull musicke make the wise people of the earth to bee like furies , and doe driue them into hell : King Dauid being the Prophet of God is as well to be credited as a Iesuite , who doth not contemne but commend , both musick and musicall instruments , ( if hee doeth so , that doth vrge vs to sing and to play on the same ) for these are his wordes . Reioyce in God O yee righteous : For prayse becommeth well the iust . Confesse it to God with the Harpe : sing Psalmes vnto him with the Viall and with the instrument of tenne stringes . Sing vnto him a newe song , make a sweet noise with your musical instruments aloud . Psal. 33.

Therefore it seemeth that you knowe not what musicke is , that woulde haue it to bee a discredite to the partie that knoweth it . I neuer read that Iesuitrie shoulde be one of the seuen liberall sciences : But I am sure that Musicke is one of the seuen Sciences , yea and one of the foure Mathematicall Sciences , whiche are , Arithmatike , Geometrie , Astronomie , and Musicke , In whiche Sciences and other , it maye bee , that I am not altogeather ignorant , ( though you goe aboute to discredite mee as without all knowledge and learning . ) For as you confesse , that as yet you haue not learned my estate and calling : so I beleeue , as yet you haue not fully found out my knowledge and learning . And whereas you geste that I was a musition because of my ryming , In deede I must confesse , I am not altogether ignorant in musick , But if I were as ignorant in musicke , as it seemeth you are in the cause of my musicke : I shoulde then haue no more musicke , then there is truth in your religion . And nowe to put you out of doubt , I had knowledge in musicke before I coulde ryme . Therefore you might more 〈◊〉 haue saide .

It seemeth that hee hath been some rymer in time : Because hee can sing , a thing meete for ryme .

Thus though you alleadged that my ryming was the cause that I was a Musition : I assure you that God is the cause that gaue mee wit and vnderstanding to learne musicke .

And for that you seeme to discommend musicke , in that you disdained mee for hauing knowledge therein : I will somthing briefly speake in the commendation of Musick , whereby all wise men wil esteeme a man better for hauing knowledge in musicke , then a Iesuite that hath neuer so profound knowledge in papistrie .

Musicke is such a science of concordance and vniformity , that one may soone vnderstand when the musition doth sing or play wrong . But when the Musition perceiueth by the discordes or by the tune or sounde , that hee is wrong , will he sing or play on still : No , hee will begin againe : And if his song bee false 〈◊〉 , he will neuer cease vntill hee haue founde the fault , and then hee will amende it , whereby hee will sing true . Yet you that are Iesuites ( cleane contrarie to the musition ) will not trie your Papisticall religion ( which is most false and farre out of tune ) by Gods worde : as the muisition doth his song , by the right copie or by the science of musicke : but wilfully against all godly harmonie , doe proceede still in your errour most greeuous to God , and quite out of tune to the eare of the Godly Gospeller . Therefore I woulde to God that you would trie the truth of your religion by Gods word : as the musition will trie his song by the science of musick . And now to speake in the commendation of musicke , though you seeme to disdame it : The truth is , in musicall harmonie is such strength & vertue , that mens mindes being fatigated & weeried are thereby made that stronger & more apt to studie . Also shipmen and marriners with artificers and other that laboure 〈◊〉 , their singing makes their painefull labour seeme the more easie , and the time to bee shorter . Musicke expelleth care , it comforteth the sorowfull , and it deliteth men and women so much , that extreeme exercise in daunsing therwith three or foure houres together , will not tyre them or make them feele wearines :

Whereas one halfe houre of easier exercise without musicke , woulde vtterly tyre them . Musicke many times hath warmed mens mindes so much , that they haue felt no colde , though they stoode an houre or two in the frost . When nothing can cause a childe to cease crying , a simple song will soone still it , and make it merrie , that before did mourne and weepe . Yea musicke is of such force , that birdes are catcht through the pleasure they haue in melodious whistling . The Elephantes of India are stayed with the musicall sounde of instrumentes . And moreouer as Alpharabius doeth testifie , Alpharabius musicke hath moued horses in the warres to bee curragious , and doeth merueylously comfort the Dolphins and the Serens in the sea and other .

That great learned man Basill , seemeth to affirme that musicke is a meane ( yea and deuised by the holie ghost ) to fasten the fruite of godly doctrine in vs , & these are his wordes , For whereas the holy ghost perceiued that mankinde was Basil , mag. in prolog. super Psalm. hardly trayned to vertue , and that we be very negligent in things concerning true life in 〈◊〉 , by reason of our inclination to worldely pleasures and delectations : what hath he inuented ? he hath mixt in his fourme of doctrine , the delectation of musicke , to the intent that the commodity of the doctrine might secretly steale into vs , while our eares be touched with the pleasantnesse of the melodie . You woulde make that riming is the cause of musicke : but hereby Saint Bafill , it appeareth that musicke is a cause of the entring of godly doctrine into vs . Now if this our earthly musicke doeth worke suche effecte , as was done by king Dauid , and as I haue nowe mencioned : then what would the heauenly harmonie of the Celestiall spheres woorke if we might heare it : wherof we are defrauded , partly through 〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 of our eares for the grosse 〈◊〉ter . that 〈◊〉 our hearing , but chiefly through the great distance chere of from vs or rather both . Yet some learned haue bin of this iudgement that young infantes , smiling sweetly in their sleepe ( as many of them doe ) at that instant do heare that sweate and 〈◊〉 sphericall harmonie , which maketh them so to reioyce and laugh . And thus this worthie and commendable Science hath done and doth daily , that which none of the other Sciences can doe .

And as it being one of the foure Mathematical Sciences doth accorde and agree with arithmatike in perfection and true proportion of nomber , so it agreeth with Astronomie in time : yea and perfect musitions may well vnderstande by their singing , what time hath passed in their singing , and how many minutes or houres they haue been a singing their songes . And if they haue knowledge with al in Astronomie , they may know what signe and degree of the same , is ascending , & in the culme of the 10. house , or full southe , and other places , when they haue ended their song : So that they know perfectly at whattime they began their song . For as in euery artificial houre is conteined three score minutes , and in euery minute three score secondes , whereby there is in euery artificiall houre 3. thousand & sixe hundreth seconds : So that according to the direct ascentions , one degree doth ascend in foure minutes whereby it falleth out , that 15. degrees doth so ascende directly in one artificiall houre not differing much : euen so one semebrefe of that lesse perfect measure , ( with is now the most accustomed time with vs of all songes ) conteyneth the iust time of a second , whereby 60. sembreefes are a singing in one minute : so that according to this measure , 3600. sembreefs , as a iust houre a singing , and so the Astronomical second , and the musicall semebreefe , are iust both of one time . And thus by this famous science of musicke we may finde out the merueylous motions of the Celestiall signes .

Marke further how the concords & discordes of this earthly Mathematical science of musicke , doth agree most aptly & wonderfully with the heauenly science of Astronomie , in distance and qualitie with the aspectes of the celestiall planets . For as two notes being in one line or 〈◊〉 on one string , ( So that the string haue but one tune ) is a perfect 〈◊〉 : in musicke called an vnison , or vnius soni of one sound : So the coniunctions especially of good or friendly planets in one signe , is a good and a perfect agreement of the same planets so 〈◊〉 . And as two planets being in the thirde signe one from another & beholding one another , is a good and friendly aspect called a Sextile aspect : So two notes distant in the thirde place or stringe , one from another , is a good concord , and is called a third . And as two planets being in the fourth signe one from another , & aspecting ech other , is a quartile and an euill aspect : So , two notes distant in the fourth place one from another , is a discord called a fourth . And as two planets being in the fifte signe one from another and beholding one another , is the best aspect of all other called a trine aspect : So , two notes distant in the fifte place one from another , is the best concord of al other , called a fifte . And as two planets being in the seuenth signe one from another , aspecting one another , is the worst aspect of al other , called an opposite aspect : Euen so two notes distant in the seuenth place one from another , is a merueilous discorde in musicke called a seuenth .

Here you may see how wonderfully our earthly musick , being one of the foure Mathematicall sciences , doeth agree with heauenvly astronomie , being also one of the foure mathematicall sciences . So that if you had been as profoundly seen in this worthy science of musick , as you are in your diuelish doctrine of papistrie , you would haue sought some other way or meane to discredite me , than by naming me a musition , or by my hauing knowledge in such a famous science . Therfore I beleeue I shall winne more credite by your calling me a musition , then you will get honestie by being 〈◊〉 Iesuite .

But it may be that your drift was to dishonest me , by making your reader beleue , that I was a musition and got my liuing by musicke , as though they that liue by musicke must needes be vnhonest , or whatsoeuer they write is not worth the reading .

I 〈◊〉 you thinke better of your romishe 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 of our English 〈◊〉 . But if Iesuites may esteeme 〈◊〉 musitions : surely a Christian may thinke well of Englishe musitions .

And if your musitions in Rome are to bee commended , though they liue by their 〈◊〉 : then I cannot fee why our Englishe 〈◊〉 shoulde bee disdayned that liue honestly by the same . But to the entent you shall haue 〈◊〉 occasion to disdayne or disable mee for my knowledge in Musicke , whereas I tolde you before in certifiing you of my estate and calling , that I neuer had any spirituall 〈◊〉 , ( though you might suppose otherwise ) : now likewise to put you out of doubt , ( though I haue some simple knowledge in Musicke ) I professe not musicke , neither doe I gette any liuing or any money by Musicke . ( Notwithstanding better and learneder , than I haue done . )

The knowledge of Sciences was wont to make 〈◊〉 to be esteemed : and shall then the excellent Science of Musicke make me bee disdayned : But suppose that Musicke were not one of the foure Mathematicall Sciences and so excellent as it is : shoulde my knowledge therein woorke my discredite 〈◊〉 my booke therefore bee lesse counted of or esteemed : Saint Luke is though to haue had skill in paynting which is not comparable to the Science of Musicke : should therefore the gospel of Christ or that acts of the apostles which he wrote , bee disdayned or discommended , because a painter or one that had skill in painting wrote it : Shall the Gospell of Christ bee reiected which S. Matthewe wrote : because hee was a tolgetherer : which is not so deepe a mysterie as Musicke . Shall Paules epistles be discredited , because hee being a tentmaker did write them ? which is not so learned a science as Musicke . Shall S. Peters epistles bee thought not worth the reading , because they were made by a 〈◊〉 : which is not so harde to learne as musicke . Now seeing neither saint Matthewe by his tolgethering , neither S. Luke by his painting , nor S. Peter by his fishing , nor yet S. Paul by his tentmaking , are the lesse esteemed , nor their 〈◊〉 lesse embraced : then why shoulde my knowledge in the famous science of Musicke ( which you rather surmised then certainly knew ) cause me either to be disdayned , or my booke diseredited : And seeing king Dauid and the prophete of God , was not the lesse honoured for his knowledge in musicke and his playing on the harpe , neyther his booke which hee wrote of the psalmes , is therefore lesse liked : methinkes then you should not goe about to make me to be disdayned , or my booke to be despised by surmising mee to be a musition , or because I haue skill in musicke .

Therefore when you meane to discommende any hereafter , reprooue rather his wickednesse then his writing , his lewdnesse than his learning , and his manners then his musicke : vnlesse hee bestowe his learning in lying , and his writing in wresting of the trueth , as you Iesuites doe .

The 40. part .

THen after you come to a peece-of my preface , and haue 40. part . one snatch , at it , reciting my woordes not confuting the phrase , as though you woulde haue your reader to disdayne my inditing , as you woulde haue had them mistike mee for musicke , and these are your wordes . To the Disc. pa. 183. great comfort and ioy ( as he hopeth ) of her highnes being framed by him not troublingly by louingly vnto her subiects . And so you leaue that matter and goe no further . As before you geste a wrong cause of my being a musition : so I perceiue you are ignorant of that cause of my writing the same in the order . And thogh it appeare before the you knew my thought and what I woulde haue saide : yet here it is manifest , that you know not what I ment in writing of this . But that you may vnderstande that my wordes in this place are not so impertinent , as you woulde haue them import , I will shew you the foundation wherfore I did frame them . The truth is , about ten yeeres before I gaue her maiestie this my booke whiche you so muche discommende , I with some paynes and trauel deuised a suite , for the great profite and commoditie especially for the poore and needie of this my natiue countrey of Englande , in most necessarie places throughout the whole realme , being a marueylous profite to thousandes and hurte to none , in the forefront whereof were these briefe woordes written .

In dei gloriam : in Angliae Laudem : In tuam O princeps vtilitatem Maximamque perpetuam famam : Commoditas multis , incommodum nullis .

Wherein I a Christian wished more good to this my countrey then euer any Iesuite did perfourme I am sure . And as that suite was onely to bee graunted by her grace , for the profite of her subiects : so this my booke that I gaue her maiestie of late , was to be perfourmed of her subiects to the comfort and ioy of her grace . For I beleeue if her stubborne and disobedient subiects that obey and fauor the pope , would become obedient and obey her grace , as my chiefe drift is in my saide booke , I thinke it woulde be no small comfort and ioy to her highnes . And for that ( the premisses considered ) it may more manifestly appeare that these my wordes ( whiche you seeme to disdayne ) are not so farr out of frame , nor so vnaptly placed as you woulde haue your reader to thinke : I will here write the wordes in such order as I wrote them to her Maiestie , ( and not out of order as you haue done ) which being aduisedly read of the indifferent reader ( conferring the same with my former wordes ) they may thinke that you haue not delt very indifferently with me . And these are my words in the beginning of my Epistle . As heretofore ( my most gracious soueraigne ) I troubled your highnes ( not without some trauel to my selfe ) in a thing that was necessarie , reasonable , and commodious to many and hurt to none : Euen so I haue nowe ( not troublingly but louingly ) framed an 〈◊〉〈◊〉 to such of your subiectes , as feare not God as they ought , regarde not his woorde as they should , nor obey your highnes as they are bound , naming them English enemies ( as I may very wel ) for english friends I am sure they are not : which perswasion is necessarie , reasonable , and very profitable for them & not hurtfull to any . And as that which before I made to your Maiestie , was by your grace onely to be authorized , for the great reliefe and succour of your subiectes : So this that I haue nowe written to your subiects , is to be allowed and practised by them , to the great comfort and ioy ( I hope ) of your highnes . And though I haue pende it for them to performe : yet I haue dedicated it to your grace to peruse . &c. Hereby I trust the indifferent reader will iudge ( the circumstance of the matter considered ) that my sayde words are not so much awry , as you would faine make your reader beleeue . And as hereby you goe about causelesse to discommende me for placing of my words : so you go about to bleere your readers eyes fraudulently , with displacing of my words , as the indifferent reader may perceaue , for these wordes , To the great comfort and ioy ( I hope ) of your highnes , you haue placed them before these wordes , not troublingly but louingly vnto such of your subiects , whiche were behinde them eight or niene lines , besides you haue of purpose lefte out the rest of my words between them , and all to marre the sence of my saying , & to make my matter seem without method .

If you were as honest as you woulde seeme by your name , you would not thus dishonestly haue ioyned those my sentences so nie together , that I did place so farre a sunder : and to leaue out such wordes as thereby the sence shoulde be hindered or hid to discredite me withall . You thought belike that eyther your reader would neuer reade my booke , or that I shoulde neuer reade this your booke , or that I woulde not or coulde not , defende my doinges againste your booke . I woulde be loth you shoulde take mee with racking your writing or displacing your wordes , as I haue done you , no , you shall not finde , in all this my booke , that I haue left out any of your words of your sentences the I haue written , or made any of your sentences to leape so far out of their places , no , I haue written them truly as I found them , whereby the in different reader may spie what difference there is between a true Christian and a false Iesuite .

The 41. part .

THen after this these are your wordes that followe : 41. part . This mans drift is ( as he sayth ) to prooue all papists Discou . page . 183. to be Englishe enemies , and extreeme enemies to Englande : which in effect he prooueth thus : papists doe loue the Popes lawe , the Pope he loueth not God Almighties lawe : the Queenes Maiestie shee loueth God Almighties law , and her lawe is all one with his : how then can the papists loue their Queene and countrey ?

If you ment as truely as you meane falsly , you woulde haue set downe my woordes as they are in my booke : as I haue written your wordes plainely as I found them in your book : But because you seeke my discredite you counterfeite my words , In the beginning of with your counterfeate words , you affirme that I say my drift is to proue all papistes to bee English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande . If I haue sayde so , why doe you not shewe me where and in what place I. sayde so ? as well as I tolde you where you sayde a 〈◊〉 from dishonestie . If I haue not sayde so , then why doe you belie me ? Methinkes it should not stand with your holy profession , to charge me with an vntrueth . Marke the title and beginning of my booke , and you shall see whether you haue delt plainely and truely with mee or no. For these are my very wordes .

A perswasion from papistrie , written chiefly to the obstinate determined and disobedient English papistes , who are herein named and prooued Englishe enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande , &c. Here may you see your owne corrupting of my wordes and meaning , my drift is to proue , obstinate determined and disobedient papists English enemies , and extreeme enemies to England , which in my sayd booke , I haue proued alredy , And not all papistes : for I know there are simple seduced english papistes , the you the are deepe & determined papistes , shal neuer I hope allure from the subiection of their Prince to the obediencie of the Pope . In your saide counterfet words floutingly and mockingly you affirme , ( to allure your Reader to mislike me ) that I shoulde say thus , The Pope hee loueth not God almighties lawe : The Queenes Maiestie shee loueth God almighties lawe , &c. With which worde ( God almightie ) you deride mee , as though I were a childish writer , or that I wrote some trifle or toy to please babes withall . To discredite my writing , you haue put in ( God Almightie ) more then I wrote , whereby you haue taken the holy name of God in vaine . But if I had vpon good occasion written it , you woulde rather haue pluckt it out of my writing , therby to discredite me . Wherfore because you are such a subtill shiftter and foyster in of wordes , I will heere write mine owne wordes that they may 〈◊〉 their owne tale : whereby the indifferent Reader shall see whether a Iesuite hath delt honestly with a Christian or not . And these are my very words that follow , which cunningly you haue counterfeited .

It is wel known that the Pope is enemie to our queene , Persuasion from papistry Pag. 4. his lawes are repugnant to her lawes , and his religion is contrary to her religion ( which is the Gospell of Gods worde ) Nowe if any that is borne within England , doth earnestly loue the Pope , then they can not faithfully loue the Queene , if any of them obey the Popes lawes and decrees , they must needes disobey the Queenes lawes and orders : and if they imbrace and loue the Popes religion , then they must needes forsake and despise Gods worde the Queenes religion . Nowe , for you that are 〈◊〉 , then you are rather the Popes louing seruants , then the Queenes true subiects . And if you bee not true and louing subiects to our Queene , who vnder God is the chiefe staffe and stay of the peaceable and prosperous state of England : then you cannot bee friendes but enemies to England , and thus I trowe I haue proued you Englishe enemies .

These are my very wordes concerning the same , which you haue rackt and counterfeated contrary to my writing , whereby the indifferent reader may easily iudge , whether your wordes are my wordes in effect , and whether your writing conclude as mine doth , or not . In deede as you wrote it , it is a very simple and childish argument , much like Peter Crabs arguments for prouing of the Popes power . True meaning woulde that you shoulde write my argumentes as they be , and then to confute them if you can , but because you cannot , you curtall and peece them at your pleasure , otherwise you confute them not . And when you haue brought them into such a pickle , them you commit them to your Reader to scanne , who thinking you to deale plainely and truely , doth therefore despise mee , yea and perhaps contemne my booke before hee reade it or heare it . But therefore I haue written mine owne wordes as they bee , whereby the Reader may perceiue that though you are a Iesuite in name , yet you are more like a Iudas in your dealing .

It is an easie kinde of confuting , to write nothing but to 〈◊〉 a mans words . If I should haue dealt so with you , you might iustly haue derided me , and called me a liar without learning , as I may call you a learned falsifier & a shamelesse Iesuite .

The 42. part .

AFter this you falsifie my wordes againe , and coyne 42. part . my writing with your owne counterfeite stamp , much like one that when he hath once stolne , careth not then howe often he playeth the theefe . Surelie if you ment honestly you woulde write my woordes as they bee , and confute them after ( if you can ) as I haue done yours . It appeareth you are verie shamelesse , and either regarde not your credite , or els you thinke , whatsoeuer a Iesuit doth , bee ought not to bee blamed , nor that any thing can worke his discredite . Doe you thinke that your Readers are so childish and so simple to thinke that your rehearsing of my wordes falsely , and curtalling them as it pleaseth you without any other argument or proofe , is a sufficient confuting of them ? I thinke not . I neuer heard of any that vsed this kinde of confuting but you , and because you are the first inuenter thereof , I beleeue you are the last that will vse the same . If to write nothing , but only to repeat falsely and vntruely mens wordes ( as you doe and haue done ) bee a sufficient confuting : then we neede no great learning to the confuting of any . And now let vs heare your cunning confutation with nothing but with mine owne wrested wordes , and thus they are as followeth .

Againe , the 〈◊〉 crie vpon their Queene Marie , Discouerie . Pag. 183. and wee crie vpon our Queene Elizabeth : And is not Queene Elizabeth I pray you as well a kings daughter as Queene Mary ? As well a kings sister as Queene Mary ? as lawfull Queene of Englande ( I will not say more ) as Queene Mary ? Why then howe can Papistes be otherwise but English enemies , and extreeme enemies to Englande ? These and the like arguments in sense though not altogeather in the same wordes , hee dilateth according to his kinde of eloquence , throughout all the first part of his booke , though he make no partes at all .

Where as you say it is my eloquence , I vtterly refuse it , it is your eloquence and none of mine . Seeing the words are yours and not mine : ( as you haue confest ) then the eloquence shall bee yours and not mine . You haue written a great sort of fine words and that eloquently in this your discouerie : and were it reason that I shoulde haue the eloquence of them all from you ? You are a very kinde and liberall man , that can be content to take suche paine in writing , & then to let me haue all the eloquence that is due to the same . You haue hackt , rackt , 〈◊〉 and changed my wordes as you list , & haue vneloquēted them , or taken the eloquence from them that they had : and now you discommend me for my eloquence . You are like vnto him that spightfully cut a mans tongue out of his head , and then dispraisd him , because he could not speake . Seeing you woulde ueedes dispraise my eloquence , it had been reason that you should haue recited mine owne words as I wrote them : And then you might Iawfully haue discommended them for lacke of eloquence . Therefore if the wordes lacke eloquence then you lacke eloquence , ( as it seemeth ) because you wrote them not eloquently , considering they are your wordes , and not mine , For you haue left out a great sort of mine and foysted in ( out of all order ) many of your owne .

And though I a Christian cannot bee so eloquent as you that are a Iesuite , I must bee content with S. Paule , who though he were not very eloquent , by S. Hieroms saying : yet the most eloquent Philosopher that euer was did neuer Num. 22. so much as hee , of whom S. Hierom writeth thus : Paulus Hierom , in Psal. 82. qui soelecismos facit in loquendo , Christi crucem portat , &c. Paule that is not able to vtter his minde in congrue speech , beareth the crosse of Christ , and taketh all men prisoners , as if it were in triumph : from the Ocean vnto the red Sea , he subdued the whole world . & S. Paul himselfe saith , though 〈◊〉 . Cor. 11. I be rude in speking , I am not so in knowledge . here , thogh Saint Paule lackt eloqence , yet hee lackt not the fauour of God . Therfore I had rather lacke eloquence with S. Paul one of Christs Apostles : then to be eloquent with you thogh you are one of the Popes Iesuites .

In your said wordes which you haue so falsified you count them my argumentes in sense though not altogether in wordes : but I maruel who gaue you commission to alter my wordes , and to put in other wordes for them , and to giue my wordes the sense of your forged wordes . If I shoulde leaue out your wordes , and put in steede thereof what I thinke good of mine owne , and to displace your words at my pleasure , as you haue done mine , & then to say , that it is the same in sense though not altogether in the same words : you might well say then that I 〈◊〉 not done according to the profession 〈◊〉 a Christian , though therein you haue doone according to the profession of a Iesuite . Though you thinke the Pope hath authority to alter the scriptures , and to giue them their sense as hee thinketh good : yet I hope that you haue no authoritie to alter and change my wordes , and to giue them their sense . But belike as you thinke the Pope may alter the Scriptures as hee lyste and giue them what sense it pleaseth him : so you beeing his Iesuite may likewise alter my wordes and giue them what sense you thinke good .

Before , when you dealt with the title of my booke ( which is A persuasion from Papistrie ) there you altered not my words , but wrote them as I wrote them , because you thought that persuasion beeing mine owne woorde , woulde disgrace or discredite mee : But now , you perceiuing that if you should write mine owne woordes as they bee , they woulde not then serue your turne . Wherefore you defaced and displaced my woordes , and foysted in your owne to my reproche , and to your owne credite ( as you thought . ) But as coggers and foysters of false Dyse thriue but sorily by their trade : so you by the chopping and chaunging of my words and foysting in your owne , will gaine but little . And as they for their cogging and foysting ( when it is knowne ) are so dispised , that the honest doe shunne them : so you , when this your subtill shifting is spied ( for all you are a Iesuite ) will procure your owne shame . Your Reader hauing any good consideration , will not thinke but that my woordes hang better togeather then you wrote them . But that your dishonest dealing may the better appeare , and that the indifferent and wise Reader may iudge whether ' I wrote so fondly as you haue affirmed , I will heere both write my very woordes that you so shamefully altered , and also the occasion and the circumstance thereof . For in this point I went about , not only to prooue her 〈◊〉 greate mercie and Ienitie to the obstinate Papistes her disobedient subiects : But also , ( though some of the stubborne sort did so little consider her power , that they woulde say , that shee had no lawe to punishe or execute them for the same ) that shee had as great power and authoritie to make lawes , and to punish them as Queene Mary had . But all this you left out , besides the marring of my sentences and arguments , that the reader might thinke , that it had neither good method nor matter . And now heere followeth my wordes .

If he that counterfeateth the Queenes Maiesties seale Persuasion from papistry Pag. 7. for some priuate profite ( breaking thereby but one part of her lawes ) is a Traytour and is therefore put to death : Then are not you that are obstinate and disobedient Papistes Traytours ? And deserue death , that hate your prince without any cause ? and that withstande and disobey all her godly lawes and proceedings ? In the louing and obeying of whome , and the keeping and obseruing of whose lawes and orders , her Graces safetie , the preseruation of her person , the conseruation of the common wealth , and the prosperous state of this Realme doeth chieflye depende ?

If heereby you will not willingly see what you are , I feare against your willes you will feele hereafter what you are . Open your eyes therefore and see what a mercifull Queene you haue , that euer since shee beganne to raigne hath rather mercifully without lawe sought to winne you : then cruelly by lawe to enforce or wounde you . Thinke not because shee suffereth you , that therefore shee cannot punishe nor execute you , whiche if some of you sticke not to say openly : many of you ( I beleeue ) thinke the same priuilie . Thinke not because shee hathe made no lawe for you , that therefore shee can make no lawe for you : for the Queenes maiestie hath as great power to punish the Idolatrous Papistes in her Realme , as king Iosia had to burne the Priestes of Baall in his Realme . King Asa and his people made a couenant and swore not only to seeke the Lorde , to cleaue vnto him , and to hearken vn-his voyce , but also , that whosoeuer did not so , shoulde bee slaine , whether hee were small or great , man or woman : which couenant hee perfourmed and brake not , And is not our Princesse queene of England , aswel as Asa was king of Iuda ? and hath not shee as great power in her kingdome as he had in his ? And if GOD was well pleased with king Asa for making and perfourming of that couenant ( as hee was in deede ) : would hee then bee angrie thinke you , with Queene Elizabeth if she made the like and perfourmed it ? I thinke not . But our mercifull Queene ( though shee hath set foorth the true 〈◊〉 of God , as speedily , as earnestly , and as zealously as eyther king Asa or any other rular , to bee followed and obserued throughout her whole realme ) hath not made any such couenant or law to slea or kill them that do not follow and obey the same .

But consider this well , if the Pope ( not appointed by Gods lawe to raigne and rule as hee hath doone ) may murther and kill ( as many of you thinke hee may ) the professours and followers of Gods worde ( beeing not his subiectes ) for disobeyiug his lawe deuised and inuented by man on earth , and procured by the Diuell : Then may not wee thinke , that our Queene appointed by God and allowed by his worde to raigne ouer vs , may lawfully kill and put to death the Idolatrous Papists her subiects , for wilfully disobeying and withstanding the law of God that came from heauen , beeing long since taught by the Prophetes , by Iesus Christe the sonne of God and by his Apostles , mooued and procured thereto by God the holy Ghoste ? Therefore I beseeche you weigh the milde nature of our gracious Queene ( the mother of mercie ) that doth not vse the iustice shee may : and marke your holy father the Pope ( the captaine of crueltie ) that vseth the iniusticie he ought not .

I pray you , is not our Elizabeth Queene of Englande These are my very words 〈◊〉 be so altred and changed . as well as Queene Mary was ? Whatpower , what iurisdiction , what authoritie , what superioritie , what excellencie , and what els had Queene Mary that this our Queene Elizabeth hath not ? Queene Mary was king Henrie the eights daughter , so is our Queene Elizabeth : Queene Mary was King Edwardes sister , so is Queene Elizabeth : Queene Mary succeeded her brother King Edwarde , so did Queene Elizabeth succeede her sister Queene Mary : Queene Mary was lawefull Queene of Englande , Queene Elizabeth is as lawfull Queene of Englande ( I will not say more : ) Queene Mary put downe Gods worde planted by her brother , and set vp Papistrie and Idolatrie , and obeied the Pope , Queene Elizabeth put downe papistrie and Idolatrie planted by her sister , and obeyed GOD : Queene Mary vsed her harmelesle and obedient subiects cruelly and put them to death that professed gods worde , Queene Elizabeth vseth her wicked and disobedient subiects mercifully , and suffereth them to liue , that professe and stifly defende papistrie and idolatrie the doctrine of the Diuell .

These comparisons duly considered , your Queene Mary did not muche excell our Queene Elizabeth ( vnles in crueltie and burning her harmelesse subiects ) . Nowe if Queene Mary might put to death her humble and harmelesse subiects for professing of Gods word : Then I cannot see but that our Queene Elizabeth , may as well execute her stubborne and disobedient subiects ( whiche shee as yet neuer did ) that withstande Gods woorde , and will needes followe papistrie and idolatrie .

And further , if Queene Mary had a lawe to burne the seruantes of God , that were obedient to her concerning their worldly dutie , and neuer ment her harme : Then why may not our Queene Elizabeth make a Lawe to execute the popes seruantes ( that are bounde to be her louing subiectes ) which are disobedient vnto her , and that seeke , procure , desire and wishe her death and distruction ?

Therefore be thankefull to God that hath giuen you and vs such a mercifull prince to raigne ouer vs , and loue and obey her , that giueth you for iustice mercie , and for extremitie lenitie . And nowe as her grace doth refraine from that shee may doe : so prouoke not her 〈◊〉 to that shee can doe . And as I sayde , thinke not that her grace can not vse the swoord against you , because shee hath not vsed it : for if you thinke so , you do not onely deceaue your selues , but also do much abuse her Maiestie , in that you seeme thereby to make her a Prince without powre : whereby you are vnwoorthie of the great mercie shee sheweth vnto you .

What seruant is so foolishe to thinke ( muche more to say ) that because his master doeth not beate him for his fault , therefore he can not beate him ? Because the mercifull father doth not beate his sonne for his offence , that maketh not that he can not beate him for the same . Shall her clemencie and mercie make you thinke in her disabilitie ? Therefore if any of you thinke so ( as I beleeue some of you haue said so , you are not worthie of such a merciful mistres that vseth you so .

Thus farre haue I written to this ende in my said booke , whereby it appeareth most manifestly , that my drift was altogether to she we forth her Maiesties great lenitie and mercie : And that shee hath as great powre and authoritie as Q. Marie had , to make lawes , and to vse the swoorde with seueritie & iustice as well as shee : as appeareth by the whole circumstaunce of the matter both before and after : which you of purpose did not onely leaue out , but also did so choppe and chaunge my wordes to discredite me withall : that they had neyther good sentence nor sence . And this is the verye cause and grounde why I wrote the saide wordes that you 〈◊〉 vnhonestly altered .

And though you mislike my eloquence , yet I hope the indifferent reader will not thinke that these my arguments are so fonde and sencelesse , and so disorderly couched , as you would haue made them beleeue by your wrested and altered words . If they marke but your woordes that you wrote in steade of mine , and conferre my comparison betweene Queene Marie and her Maiestie , with your wordes : they may soone see your malicious meaning . For where you haue written , The papistes crye vpon their Queene Marie and wee crye vpon our Queene Elizabeth , I haue no such wordes at all . And morouer , within sixe of your lines after , you haue fathered these wordes vpon me , Why then , howe can papistes be otherwise but English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande ? If I haue any such sentence or woordes I will yeelde vnto you and bee one of the popes Iesuites , which to be I woulde be loth .

You might haue thought me to be a very dolt , if I should go about to proue papists to be english enemies , because the Queenes maiestie was a kings daughter , and a kings sister .

You your selfe are so cunning in finding out of such mysticall causes , that I am not able to compare with you therein : for first you made that M. Nicols going from Wales to England , and from thence to Flaunders , and so to Rome , & from Rome to the pulpit in the Towre of London , was the cause that he was borne at Combridge in Wales . Then after you would seeme to proue that I was a musition because I was a rimer , and nowe thirdely ( because you woulde haue me to be a citer of your causes ) you woulde make your reader beleeue that I prooue that papistes must needes bee extreeme enemies to england , because the Queenes Maiestie was king Henries daughter and king Edwards sister . But truely , you are tried before to bee so cunning and experte in finding out of the causes of thinges , that this deepe profound cause the is alledged for the prouing of papists to be extreeme enemies to england , is of your own inuention : for they know that my wit is to weake and my learning to light , to find out such a mysticall cause . It had been enough for Peter 〈◊〉 to haue 〈◊〉 this argument ( the prouer of the popes powre ) that saide , because Peter paide the tribute money for Christ & Concil. 〈◊〉 . 1 page . 10. himself , therfore the pope hath authoritie ouer the whole Church of God . And because Christ saide to Peter , followe thou me , and againe launche forth in the deepe , and because Peter drew his sword and cut off Malcas eare , therefore the pope hath authoritie of the whole Churche of God .

This had been a fitter argument for him then for mee . Also this argument had been more meet for pope Innocent , than for me , which woulde proue that the Moone being inferiour De Maior . 〈◊〉 obedien. vnam Sanct am . in Sexto . to the Sunne , therefore the Emperour was inferior to the Pope : And that the Emperoute is a thousande folde inferior to him , because God hath made two lights in heauen . ( Which is the Sunne and the Moone ) . These & such like arguments are more meete for Popes then Protestants . And now for that you Iesuites are sworn to the pope , Therefore this argument , ( that papists are English enemies and extreeme enemies to Englande , because Queene Elizabeth is as well a kings daughter and a kings sister as Q. Marie : ) is a more 〈◊〉 argument for a Iesuite then for a 〈◊〉 .

If the indifferent reader consider mine own words before written , he can spie no such thing as you charge mee withal , But may 〈◊〉 perceiue , that I wrote the same only to proue that that Queenes maiestie hath as great powre to vse the sword , and to make laws against her obstinate and disobedient subiects , as Queene Mary had . And that it is as lawfull for her grace to punish and execute her obstinate & disobedient subiects : as for Queene Marie to punish and execute her louing and harmelesse subiects ( the professors of the Gospel ) that obey her with due obedience .

Therefore it is no great matter for you to proue that I am neither eloquent nor learned , if you may chop & change my words , & foist in your own at your plesure as you haue done .

Tullie was an eloquent writer , yet if I shoulde chop and change his works & writings , putting in & leauing out what I list in the same , I could make him seeme quickly to haue but small eloquence .

Plato and Aristotle were learned Philosophers : yet I coulde make them seeme vnlearned , if I shoulde vse their bookes as I thought good .

Salamon was the wisest man that euer was ( except Christ ) whose wordes if I shoulde backe and choppe , thrust in and pull out what I list , ( as you haue done ) I coulde make him see me to bee no very wise writer . And as it is no great matter for you to say and prooue , that a man can not goe when before you haue cut off his legges : So it is a verye easie thing for you to make your reader 〈◊〉 that I haue neyther eloquence , learning , nor wit , when you haue curtald my writing , and haue 〈◊〉 out and foysted in what it pleaseth you . Wee must thinke this honest dealing , because a Jusuite hath done it , but if a Christian had done so , you woulde haue called it impudencie the mother of desperation . But if mine owne wordes woulde haue proued me so vneloquent as you woulde make mee , and that the same had beene so without sence as you woulde fayne haue had them : I am out of doubt that then you woulde haue written mine owne woordes as they were . But for that you thought they were too true to serue your turne : Therefore ( to discredite me ) you displace and deface mine , and trust in your own as though they were mine . But though mine eloquence be small , yet I trust the indifferent reader ( when hee hath throughly vewed my woordes , and likewise weyed yours ) will as well iudge that my matter hath some method and my sentences some sence , as you by corrupting them woulde haue made them both without method and sence .

If the first part of my booke ( as you say ) be nothing but such argumentes as you before haue written for mine : the reader had a good occasion rather to rende the whole booke than to reade the rest : But they that shall thinke good to reade the rest of the first part of my saide booke , what the argumentes are , I will leaue it to their consideration , trusting that the matter thereof is more meete to bee market then to bee mockt .

The 42. part .

WHere as you say I haue made no first parte of 43. part . my said booke at all , yet there are such distinctions of euery matter as I thought sufficient . But if you had been nie mee ( if you had had a name as you haue not ) I woulde haue come to you that you might haue taught me howe to haue parted my booke .

But nowe because you are namelesse , it may beseeme my booke as well to bee without partes as you to bee without a name . And if it bee lawefull for you to make a booke without putting your name vnto it : then it is as lawefull for mee to make a booke without putting your partes vnto it .

Perhappes you woulde haue had mee deuide my booke into chapters , I am sory I did not , if you therfore would haue liked it the better . Yet for all the Bible is in chapters , you haue not the greater deuotion vnto it , but though the Bible is nowe deuided into partes and chapters : it is harde for you to proue that the bookes of the same were at the first writing in chapters as they bee nowe . For Christ when he alledged any text out of Moses or the Prophets : yet he neuer mentioned any part or chapter where it was , neither did S. Paule nor any other of the Apostles . Notwithstanding when I am throughly perswaded that the bookes in the Bible , when they were first written , were deuided in such parts and chapters as they bee nowe : 〈◊〉 ( to pleasure you withall ) I will deuide my saide booke into such chapters and partes . But vntill then , I 〈◊〉 desire you to bee content with my distinctions . And nowe for that I did not parte my saide booke as I shoulde haue done , ( wherein I was fouly ouerseen ) therefore I haue deuided this booke into parts to please you 〈◊〉 .

The 44. part .

THen you goe further with me and do say as foloweth , 44. part . In the seconde part , hee wandreth by certaine controuersies , but as without all witte and learning like an English doctoure , citing all his matter out of lewels defence of Apologie , Foxes martyrologe , and Cowpers Epitomie of the Cronicle : so without all 〈◊〉 or limitation of lying .

It is not for a Christian I perceiue , to compare in witte and learning with a Jesutte . You haue so much that I must needes haue the lesse , but for that small portion of witte and learning that I haue , I thanke my heauenly father for it . What I haue therein , I haue receiued : And he that gaue Salamon his wisedome , is able to 〈◊〉 mine . I reioyce that I knowe Christ , for that is witte and learning enough for mee . And though you may excell mee in witte and learning : yet the more you corrupt mens writinges and 〈◊〉 their wordes , the lesse will your witte and learning be esteemed , especially with the godly and wise .

All is 〈◊〉 witte or wisedome that you call so : and all 〈◊〉 not foolishnes that you accompt foolishnesse , your earthly wisedome is heauenly follie . And Saint Paul saith the wisdome 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . 3. of this worlde is foolishnes with God . Then contrary I may say , that many take Gods wisedome to be mere foolishnesse . ( I pray God that you bee not one of them ) And therefore though you say that I wander in the seconde part of my saide booke without all witte and learning : I wandered so as it pleased God to directe me . For though my learning ( as I must needes confesse ) is but small , yet my prompcer in the making of that booke , had learning enough for vs both . For God ( I am most sure ) was my director , and the holy ghost was my instructor . For if the holy ghost will instrucc the godlie in their speeche that are witnesses of the Gospell : then I am sure hee will instruct and guide their pennes that take his cause in hande , and doe write against his enemies in the defence of his woorde . And if a Matth. 10. Sparrowe light not on the grounde without Gods prouidence : then I am most certayne that I wrote that my booke ( which is a greater matter then a sparrows lighting on the the grounde ) not without the prouidence and helpe of God .

And if my learning bee small , or if I bee without witte or learning , then it is the more shame for you to professe and maynteyne suche a religion as an vnlearned man is able to disproue . Which I am sure I haue done through the help of God , by the scriptures , Ancient doctours and naturall reason in my saide booke , as the godly and indifferent reader may easely iudge . Though you discommende and discredite it is as much as you may . But I am most sure ( which before God I speake vnfaignedly ) the profoundest papist and the learnedest Jesuite of you all , shall neuer bee able to confute or conuince it : vnlesse you confute it with burning of it , or killing of me . Which are your chiefest argumentes to confute withall .

If you had as muche wisedome as you pretende to haue learning , you coulde not haue been taken tardie and in such trippes as I haue taken you . Therefore bragge not too-much of your witte and learning , for the weake you see many times do confounde the learned and wittie . If the cause you wade in were as true as it is false , you shoulde with lesse learning then I thinke you haue : gette a great deale more credite by writing than you doe .

But if you had tenne times more learning then you haue , and my witte and learning were lesse then it is : ( hauing the trueth on my side ) I woulde not feare to confounde you . For seeing a brute beast and an Asse did reprooue the prophete Num: 22. of God : Then I ( a member of Christ ) doubt not but to confute one of the Popes Jesuites .

The 45. part .

IT pleaseth you in derision to liken mee to an Englishe Doctour , well , I had rather bee an Englishe Doctour 45. part . then a latine doulte , an Englishe protestant than a latine papist , and an Englishe Christian than a latine Iesuite . And I had a great deale rather goe to heauen to knowe the Gospell in Englishe , then goe to hell to knowe the popes lawe in latin . Is learning any thing els but , intellectio & comme moratio praelectorum seu auditorum ? What was the deepe learning of Plato , Socrates , and Aristotle , and of al the other heathen Philosophers without knowledge of Christ : they had been better to haue bin vnlearned coblers , & to haue knowen Christes Gospell in their mother tongue without any other learning : then to haue been so profoundely learned without Christ as they wer . Unlesse one bee profoundely learned you make noe accoumpt of him : but howe so euer you count learning , I am sure that godlye knowledge , not curious cunning , and the trueth not the tongue , will guide vs to heauen .

Yet if you goe to learning , there are a great sort of wise and learned doctours in this realme that are able to teache and turne your Romishe doctours , especially in true knowledge and learning : but be like you thinke our Englishe doctours are vnlearned , else you woulde not compare mee that am without all witte and learning to an Englishe doctoure . They are very muche beholden to you , for hereby you goe about , to make them eyther no Englishemen : or els to bee without all wit and learning . But as it is too much for you to prooue , so I am sure it will bee harde for you to proue them no Englishemen . For though you can bee contente to forsake your Prince and your Countrey for the pope , and so of a true Englishman , to become a false Romaniste : yet they I am sure will sticke to their Prince and continue in their Countrey , detesting the Pope and his practises .

But though you turne from your prince and countrey , yet you can not turne your selfe from being an English man , for though you may chaunge your conditions , yet your natiue countrey can not be chaunged . Therefore euery doctor that is borne in Englande must needes be an Englishe doctour : though he be neuer so learned . So that contrary to your former tale , you affirme me vnwares to be both wise and well learned , as our Doctors of Englande are : or els our Doctors of Englande , or Englishe Doctors to bee without all wit and learning as I am . But to suffer a small inconuenience by auoyding a greater mischiefe , you were best to alowe mee some witte and learning : least by your doome , all our Doctors in Englande haue neither wit nor learning . Therefore nowe it standeth at your curtesie , whether you will bee a lyar to make them all learned : or to tell truth and make them all fooles .

Truly you beeing a Iesuite write very vnaduisedly and preposterously , for you call mee a Doctor and yet you say I am vnlearned , that is , indoctus . Wee Christians doe vse to haue men docti , learned , before wee make them Doctores , that is teachers : but you Iesuites can make men Doctores , teachers , before they bee docti , or learned . Belike you had this power of Pope Iohn the 13. For as hee made Boyes Bishops for money and Deacons in a stable before they had wit : so you haue made mee a Doctor before I haue learning . But though you haue made me a doctor without learning , yet vpon your bare worde I dare not aduenture to bee a Doctor or teacher before I bee learned : So that as one that woulde faine learne , I will content my selfe with the name of a simple scholler , giuing my title of a Doctor to you that are so profoundly learned . Yet for all your great wit and deepe learning , if you haue all the wisdome & learning of the worlde without the Gospell of Christ , you haue nothing : and if wee haue none other learning but the Gospell , wee haue learning enough . For if the best learning the Prophetes of God had was , thus saith the Lorde : then what better learning can wee Christians haue , then thus saith Christe . Therefore though you Iesuites do bragge and boast of your great knowledge and learning , yet wee Christians can reioyce in nothing , but in Christe and in the knowledge of his Gospell : well assured that the small learning of a Christian , shall bee able to conuince the greate and profounde learning of a Iesuite . For if simple fisher men vnlearned were able to confounde the beepe Doctors and the profounde learned Iewes by the Gospell : then I ( though I haue but small learning ) make no great account to confute you Iesuites with the same Gospell of Christ , for all your profounde wit , knowledge , and learning .

These people are the most blessed that haue the greatest faith , not the most learning : Wherefore if I heare and followe Gods worde , I care not though you disdaine mee for want of learning , for my want of learning , cannot bee so great a reproche to mee before men : as your want of that true knowledge of the Gospell & perfect faith in Christe , is before God . Therefore you haue not so great a cause to discommende or deride mee for want of wit and learning : as I haue cause to lament you for want of true knowledge in that Gospell and perfect faith in Christ . God accepteth faith more then learning , though you regard learning more then faith . Christe marueiled at the Centurions faith , not at his learning ( whose seruant he healed ) & saide to him goe thy way , & as thou beleeuest so be it vnto Math. 8 thee . hee saide not , according to thy learning so bee it vnto thee . Christe also saide to the woman that was healed when shee touched his garment , daughter thy faith hath Mark . 5. made the whole , he did not say thy learning hath made thee whole . Christe rebuked his Apostles and other diuers times , saying , O ye of litle faith , but hee neuer disdained nor Math. 6. discommended them for lack of learning , neither said he to them , O yee of litle learning . But if Christes Disciples or they that Mark . 3. belonged to him , did thinke hee was madde : then it is no great maruaile though you that know me not , & hate my religion , doe say that I am without all wit and learning . And though I am without all wit and learning , I comfort my selfe with the saying of Dauid , which is : The law of God is perfect , conuerting the soule , the testimonie of God is sure , and giueth wisdome vnto the simple . Psalm. 19. And as you deride and disconunend me for want of wit and learning : so in the beginning of your said discouery where you discommend M. Nicols for writing of Hebrwe and Greeke in 〈◊〉 latine Epistle to that worthie good & zealous 〈◊〉 Sir Owen Hopton , you seeme to disable the said knightes knowledge in the latine tongue , in saying that hee was ouermuch troubled with the latine before . Whatsoeuer his knowledge is in the Latine tongue I knowe not : but his Christian faith exceedeth your Iesuitic all learning . For as the Centurion ( being captaine of an hundred souldiers before Math. 8. mentioned ) and Cornelius the Captaine to whome S. Actes . 10. Peter was sent , were more accepted of God for their faith ( though they were not deeply learned ) them the proud , learned Scribes , Pharisees , and high Priestes : So this worthie & zelous knight sir Owen Hopton , being the Queenes Maiesties Liefetenant , and chiefe captaine of the Towre , and of all her Maiesties seruants and souldiers there ( though he be not so deepely learned as you ) yet for his zelous minde , his earnest loue to Gods worde , and for his perfect faith in Christ : is no doubt therefore more accepted of God , then you that cast of Gods woorde and cleaue to your owne wit and learning . And for that you say that hee was ouermuch troubled with latine , it is like you thought hee had but small knowledge in Hebrwe and Greeke . But for his wanting of those two tongues , in my iudgement hee is not the lesse to bee esteemed , if the Popes were not worse to bèe thought of for wanting of Latine : for if your Spirituall Popes that had all lawes in their bosomes , and an heauenly or diuine iudgement in their breastes wanted Latine and Grammer as is before proued : Then sir Owen Hopton being but a temporall knight and the Queenes Lieftenant of the Towre , may well lacke both Heinwe and Greeke . And thus though you seeme to deride mee for want of 〈◊〉 and learning : yet I wish with all my hearte that Christe doe not despise you at the last and dreedefull day for lacke of faith .

The 46. part .

YOu say that I cite all my whole matter out of Iewels 46. part . defence of the Apologie , Foxe his Martyrologe , and Cowper Epitome of the Chronicle . As good , as wise , as godly & learned as you woulde haue named these three worthie and learned men with more reuerence then you haue done : beeing three such speciall and painefull learned writers for the commoditie of their Countrie , and for the perpetuall profite of our posteritie , as neither your great citie of Rome , nor yet the whole Countrie of Italie haue bread or brought foorth at any one time three suche , as this our Countrie of England hath done of them , at least so manifestly knowne by their workes , as they are by their writings .

Wee Christians heere in Englande doe knowledge our selues greatly bounde to God for them and such like : though you Iesuites doe make small account of them .

I had been a very vnskilfull writer if I had not written in the same part of my booke , one sentence of mine owne but all of other mens doings , ( seeing it was one of the three partes of fortie sheetes of Paper ) . But as al your woordes before , haue not been Gospel , so here you haue spoken more than truth . But if you were as loth to speake that is false , as it seemeth you are carelesse 〈◊〉 you speake : you would I am sure haue saide , that some part of the same was none of theirs .

Whether all my matter of that parte of my saide booke bee cited out of master Iewell , master Cowpers and master Foxes bookes , I wil referre the same to the indifferent reader thereof . And if they say that I haue cited all the matter therein conteined out of the said learned mens bookes , I will become a 〈◊〉 , so that you , if they say contrary will become a Christian.

But as many arguments , similitudes , and sentences of the same was of mine owne deuising through Gods helpe : so there are other learned authorities that I had neuer of them . But suppose that I had taken all my authors for my purpose out of them ( being the authours words and truely alleadged ) shoulde that bee a discredite to my 〈◊〉 must euery booke bee counted vnlearned and of no value , vnlesse euery sentence of Saint Augustine , Chrisostome , or other learned fathers , doctors or writers , that is 〈◊〉 therein , bee taken out of the authours woorke that first wrote them ? Then many of your Papisticall pamphlets that you esteeme and extoll must not goe for 〈◊〉 . Can you make mee beleeue that euery authour cited by you , is taken out of the originall worke ? I scantly thinke it . I doubt not but that some of you doe credite your friends quoting sometime without further searche . What if I shoulde alleadge out of the Gospell of Saint Matthewe these wordes of Esay spoken by Christe , which rightly may bee applied vnto you , With the eares yee shall heare and Math. 15 shall not vnderstande , and with the eyes yee shall see and Esai . 6 shall not perceiue , &c. Or these wordes of Esay out of Saint Markes Gospell , This people honoreth mee with Marke . 7 their lippes , but their heartes are farre from mee : Will Esai . 29 you not credite Christe the citer heereof ? Or will you ieast at the work because I tooke them not out of the booke of the Prophesie of Esay ? May not a man vpon the credite of Saint Paule recite vpon some occasion , some of his 〈◊〉 of the Prophetes or other Scriptures that hee citeth in his Epistles ? Or shall the booke bee disdained or discredited , because the writer of the booke , tooke not the same out of the Prophet that spake them ? Or out of his booke that first wrote them ? They that therefore will mislike a booke are rather precise papists then perfect Protestantes .

If I should make a good & precious medicine , would you dispraise or despise that good and precious medicine or think scorn of it , because the herbes that made it was not gathered in the garden beyonde the Sea , from whence the Seedes or herbes were first brought : If you were so curious you were not worthie to be cured of your disease . And if such curiositie were vsed , many one woulde bee dead before the medicine were made . It maketh no matter howe nigh or where the herbes be gathered , so that they be the right herbs , and haue the very vertue . And so if wee produce learned mens sayings for testimonie , and make therewith a spirituall confection for the health of the soule : it forceth not out of what booke wee cite them , so that they bee the right woordes and the true sense of the first Authour . Therfore though I had cited all my matter out of master Iewels , master Foxes , and master Cowpers bookes , ( as I haue not ) so that they be apt & fit for my purpose , beeing the very true woordes , of the first and originall authour thereof : you had neither therefore cause to discredite my booke , neither the indifferent Reader to mislike my booke .

Perhaps you disdaine or mislike it , because I haue cited in some pointes master Iewell , master Cowper , and master Foxe for authoritie , seeing they are yet aliue or were but late writers : and therefore you thinke them vnworthie to bee cited as authours . Surely if you thinke so , as I beleeue both you and many other do so : then I take your opinion therein to bee rather preposterous then profound , and reproueable then reasonable . For if in worldly affayres , witnesses are thought best when they be liuing : shall witnesses then be thought best in heauenly causes when they bee dead ? Antiquitie is no credite to an cuill writer , neither late yeeres can bee any discredite to a good writer . Time ought not to be preferred before truth , but truth before time . Christes and his Apostles words were as true and good fifteene hundreth yeeres since as they bee nowe : Therefore the long continuance of the time since , maketh not their wordes the truer , or their authoritie the better . So that if a mans wordes or writings are worthie to bee alleadged for authoritie a thousande yeeres after hee is dead : then they may bee alleadged in his life time , or soone after his death . Wherefore if master Iewell late Bishop of 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 the reuerende and learned Doctor Cowper nowe Bishop of Lincolu , and the godly , zelous , and learned master Foxe , haue written wisely , faithfully and truly , ( as most assuredly they haue doone , whose worthie workes you may well disprayse , but neuer confounde or confute ) then they deserue nowe as well to bee alleadged for authorities , as though they had written them a thousande yeere since . And to tel you truly , thes their learned workes procured mee to produce them for witnesses and to quote their sayings in my saide booke , the rather thereby to allure mo to esteeme their writings and to reade their saide bookes . So that if you consider all thinges well , you ought neither to disdaine nor discredite my booke , for alleadging authorities out of master Iewell , Doctor Cowper and master Foxe , who were and are famous , godly , and learned writers .

The 47. part .

AS you say , I doe it , without all modestie or limitation 47. 〈◊〉 . of lying , whether I doe lye without all modesty , it is very manifest that you haue falsified my woordes with no great modestie . And as my lyes are without limitation , so they are without number , for that you are not able to prooue mee so much as with one lye : for if you coulde your Reader shoulde haue beene sure to haue hearde of it . But whereas you say , without any further proofe , that I lye without limitation , I haue plainely prooued before , that you haue lyed with limitation , and so your lyes are limited and mine vnlimited . My lyes are so farre hence , and that is because they are without limitation , that you cannot finde them : but your lyes are so nigh hand ( because they are within limitation ) that I quickly spied them . Well , though to my remembraunce I haue not made any 〈◊〉 lye in all my saide booke , yet I must needes confesse that I made a very foule ouersight in taking one syllable in steede of another , which was in the intitling of my booke , naming it a persuasion in steede of a disuasion . But for your iust reproouing mee therein , I haue I trust sufficiently set foorth mine owne negligence with the due commendation of your intelligence : not doubting but that your gentle instruction shall bee a sufficient warning for mee euer hereafter , for vsing persuasion in steede of disuasion .

When you shall chaunce to make any moe lyes , you were best let them bee made without limitation , as mine were : and then it will bee harde to finde them , for yours were limited within such a small compasse , that they were espied and catcht at the first .

The 48. part .

THen after you come to shewe my lyes , but it had beene 48. part . better for you I thinke , not to haue vttered them , for surely they will rather shame your selfe , then credite your cause . And these are your wordes that followe .

For hee saith that the Papistes holde : a a Pag. 99. The Pope to Discouerie . Pag. 184. bee very God : b b Pag. 96. The light of the world , & the Sauiour of mankinde : c c Pag. 99 That they print him in their bookes , our Persuasion . Lorde God the Pope : d d Pag. 100. That the Pope also acknowledgeth the thing , taking himselfe in deede to bee a God : e e Pag. 98. That hee dispenseth both against the olde and new testament : Luptons lyes . f* f* Pag. 172. That hee biddeth vs not to forbeare swearing any day : g g Pag. 193. That hee alloweth all priestes to haue harlots : h h Pag. 131. That hee giueth licence for money to keepe as many concubines as a man will : i i Pag. 171. That his fast is , to cramme in as many banquetting dishes as men can : k k Pag. 5. 6 That all papists are worse and deserue more death , then drunkards , theeues , murtherers and Pyrates . This is Luptons charitable doctrine , with many thinges more which I omit .

You haue gathered diuers of my words written in sundrie places , & couched them altogether at your pleasure here in one place . And you haue further more cutte and curtalde them farre otherwise then I wrote them : whereby you haue marred my method , and drowned my sence , making my woordes to hange together as feathers doe in the winde , and all to discredite my booke . Thus you doe not onely deface and falsifie my woordes , but also you fetch them out of their due places where I did set them , and doe place them in such crooked corners , that they neither reprooue falshood , nor yet defend truth . And when you haue done so , you neither confute nor reproue them , vnles you do it with these words :

This is Luptons charitable doctrine , with many things more which I omit , or els perhappes your wordes in the margent ( which is Luptons lyes ) haue confuted them .

If I shoulde haue gone about to confute you onely with false repeating and vnorderly displacing of your woordes , without any more a doe : then I had not taken halfe the paines I haue done . I haue not delt thus with you as the indifferent reader may iudge : for I haue not left out one woorde of yours , neyther haue I added any words to yours , nor yet haue I displaced anye woordes of yours . But you when you haue falsified my woordes , you leaue them at randon , committing the confuting thereof to your reader : whose misliking thereof ( who can not well like them as you haue vsed them ) is all the confuting that you desire .

If you did loue the doctrine of Iesus as well inwardly , as hypocritically you professe his name outwardely : you woulde deale plainely and truely as Iesus did . But because you deale fraudulently and falsly , you are rather of the feloshippe of Iudas than of Iesus . Yet for all your falsifiyng of my woordes , suppose that I had written the selfe same woordes before mentioned , 〈◊〉 had placed them euen in such order as you haue done : you seeme by your silence without further reproouing or confuting them , that they are true . For if they had been false , why haue you not particularly declared howe and in what sorte they are false , as I haue done yours ? Truely , if they had beene lyes as they are not , you woulde haue certified your reader wherein I had lied . For you that woulde discredite me for mistaking of a sillable : ( as you thought ) no doubt you would haue proued me a lier in all this if you could .

At the first beginning of which your falsified woordes , you affirme that I say , that the papistes holde , the pope to be very God . &c.

If you had ment as truely , as here you 〈◊〉 fasely : you woulde not haue fathered those wordes on mee that I wrote not . For I haue not saide , that the papistes holde the pope to be very God . &c. For I am assured that a great sorte that fauour the popes religion doe not beleeue or holde , nay , rather that none at all doe holde , the pope to bee very God .

( Hoping there are fewe so fonde , or any so madde , and yet a great sort are fonde and madde enough ) And nowe that the indifferent reader may perceiue your craftie iugling . and howe you haue foisted in your owne words in stead of mine : here will describe mine owne woordes that they may answere for themselues . And for that you haue displaced my woordes , besides your adding too much in some place , and saying too little in an other place : I will set them nowe agayne among their owne fellowes . And these they are that followe . Pers. from papistry Pag. 98

The Popes Canonistes say ( I say not the papistes holde ) that the pope may dispence agaynst the law of God : The pope may dispence agaynst the lawe of nature : The pope 16. Q. quicumque in glossa . may dispence against Saint Paule the Apostle : The pope may dispence agaynst the newe Testament : The pope may 15. q. 6. author . in glossae dist , 34. lect. dispence with all the Commaundementes , both of the olde and also of the newe Testament .

These are my wordes in my sayde booke with their authorities Abbas pano . Extra . de 〈◊〉 uor . cap. fin . quoted in the margent , whereby the reader may perceiue that you haue both left out much of my matter and wronged my wordes . The pope had neede to haue a large 〈◊〉 Angel . in distin. pap . commission to dispence with all these . And then on the next page or side following being the 99. page , it followeth thus , Who would thinke that these proude popes woulde suffer themselues to bee called God , or that any woulde bee so beastly or wicked to call them so ? The popes Canonists haue moued questions whether the pope be God or not . ( I said not that the papistes hold the Pope to be very god , as you haue misreported mee ) And one saide thus presently before his face in the Councill of Laterane without rebuke .

Thou art another God in the earth . And the popes godhead Christopher Marcel . con. later . Sess. 4 is published abroad to the whole worlde in printed bookes : Our Lorde God the pope . These are my very woordes which you haue not onely displaced but also defaced : whereby Extra . Ioha. 22. cuminter in glossa . Im. the indifferent reader may also perceiue that I saide not as you falsely haue alleged , That the papistes holde the pope to be very God . But here they may see plainely that Lugduni . I haue prooued ( without your reproouing ) that one sayde Anno , 1555. to the pope , and he gentlie tooke it vpon him , Thou art another God in the earth . And that he is called , Our Lord god the pope , in a booke printed at Lions in the yeere of our Lorde 1555. ( which is not past xxvi . or xxvii . yeeres since ) It had been better you had not recited these words , for thereby you are proued to haue falsified my wordes , and that your pope was called another God on the earth . And that hee was published our Lorde God the pope in a booke printed not long since . Which if it be not to muche for any earthly man to take vpon him : let the indifferent reader be iudge .

You 〈◊〉 seeme to ieast out the matter with reciting my woordes falsely , as though it were sufficient for your reader to thinke they were Luptons lies beecause you haue written 〈◊〉 lies in your margent , without any other reproouing or confuting . But howesoeuer you 〈◊〉 me to lie , it appeareth manifestly by the Popes Canonistes , ( as is before written ) that the pope may dispence against the lawe of God , against the lawe of nature , against Saint Paul the Apostle , against the Newe Testament , and against all the commaundements both of the old and newe Testament . All which dispensations you haue cleane left 〈◊〉 , except the last , and yet you haue falsified the same in two poyntes : for whereas I sayde The Popes Cannonists say that the pope may dispence , you sayd that I say he dispenseth : And whereas I sayde the Popes Canonistes say that the Pope may dispence with all the commaundements both of the olde and new Testament , You affirme that I say , he dispenseth both against the olde and newe Testament .

Whereby you woulde fayne proue me a lyer , for if this pope that is nowe doth not dispence both against the old and newe Testament , I shoulde haue lied if I had saide so . So that heereby you showe your selfe to deale falsly and meane crafcely . But if there were no more but that that you write , and if it were none otherwise but euen as you haue written : yet you haue not confuted my wordes , nor proued me a lyer : but rather affirme them by holding your peace for quitacet consentire videtur .

The pope that taketh vpon him to dispence with all these ( though hee were not called our Lorde God the pope as hee hath been ) maketh him selfe more like a God then a man .

Christ the Sonne of God that is a litle better then the Pope , did neuer claime authoritie to dispence against the worde of God , as the Pope here manifestly doth . You Iesuites being in the popes fauour neede not care what sinnes you commit , for the pope may dispence with them whatsoeuer they bee . Here you may see that these are not Luptons lies , as you haue written in the margent of your booke : for I haue plainely tolde you where they are written and where you may finde them . But the indifferent reader may easely perceiue , that a Iesuite hath lyed most manifestly 〈◊〉 a Christian.

The 49. part .

49. part . YOu haue also chopt in after your sayde falsified wordes ( with are that the papists hold the pope to be very God ) certayne other wordes of mine recited almost two leaues before , & that not altogether as I spake them , affirming therby that I say , the papistes also holde the Pope to bee the light of the worlde , and the Sauiour of mankinde . In deede in the 95. and 96. page or side of my sayde booke , I haue recited these wordes , That the pope is the light that is come into the worlde , that hee is the Sauiour of mankinde , but you haue left out the rest of the sentences before , whiche should haue opened my meaning therein , and the right sence of the same . And therefore to discredite mee and to make mee seeme a lyer according to your woordes in your Margent : ( which are Luptons lyes ) you haue deuised and inuented ( most vnhonestly and vnchristianly ) wordes of your owne , making all the woordes that followe to hange on the same . Whose suttle dryft was thereby to prooue mee a lyer , thoughe the wordes I recited agaynst the Pope were true . For though the Pope hath been called an other God on the earth , and though hee bee called in printed bookes our Lorde God the Pope , ( as before I haue prooued ) and if hee haue been called the light that is come into the worlde and the Sauiour of mankinde with the rest ( as herein I shall prooue the same God willing ) yet if I shoulde according to your woordes haue saide that the papistes holde that hee is so : I shoulde haue made a manifest lye , for hee that telleth a true thinge vntruely is a lyer . And therefore though you were not able to vnburthen the Pope of those titles that onely belong to God and to his Sonne Christ , yea and of the other , that neither God nor Christ will dispence withall : yet you thought to make mee a lyer by foisting in your owne woordes that I neuer wrote nor ment .

But to set foorth your vnhoneste dealing and to manifest my playne and true wryting : I will recyte myne owne woordes of the Popes proude and too too presumptuous titles , whereby I wrote these woords wherewith you charge mee to bee such a lyer . And the occasion thereof was , because the Pope calleth him selfe the seruant of Gods Seruants : and woulde haue men thinke that hee is the lowliest and moste humble of all other : whereas hee is the moste proude and Luciferlike of all other , and here followe my very wordes .

Yet marke the lowlinesse and humilitie of the pope , Perswasion from papistrie page 95. that calleth himselfe the Seruaunt of Gods Seruauntes : In the late counsell houlden at 〈◊〉 in Rome , one Simon Begnius the Bishopp of Modrusa sayde thus to Pope Concil Lat. 〈◊〉 . 6. pa. 604 Leo , Beholde the Lyon is come of the tribe of Iuda the roote of Dauid , &c. O most blessed Leo , wee haue looked for thee to bee our Sauiour .

This I thinke was sufficient for a Pope . If the Pope had not tolde vs that he is the Uicar of Christe , a man would haue thought by these woordes , that hee had been Christe him selfe . And then immediately after , these are my very woordes that followe .

In the late Chapter of Trident , Cornelius the Bishoppe of Bitonto sayde thus : The pope is the light that is come Con. Tri sub Paul . 3. orati . into the worlde , but men haue loued darkenes more then the light . Euery man that hath done euill hateth the light Cornelii Epis. and commeth not to the light . Bitontini .

Here I haue not sayde that the papistes holde , that the Pope is our Sauiour , nor that he is the light of the worlde : But I haue prooued and playnely tolde that the Bishoppe of Modrusa sayde to Pope Leo , O most blessed Leo wee haue looked for thee to bee our Sauiour . And also that Cornelius the Bishoppe of Bitonto saide , The pope is the light that is come into the worlde , but men haue loued darknesse more then light . &c. Whiche you haue not disprooued but falsified as before is to bee seene , neyther yet confuted , vnlesse your wordes in the margent , ( whiche is Luptons lyes ) hath confuted it . And after that , these are my wordes that followe , ( but you left them out , belike you were ashamed to vtter them , as you might well enough . )

The pope suffered the Embassadours of Cicilia to lye Paulus Aemilius lib. 7. prostrate on the grounde , and thus to crye vnto him , as if it had been to Christ : Holy Father that takest away the sinnes of the worlde , haue mercie vpon vs : Thou that takest away the sinnes of the worlde , giue vs peace .

Pope Sextus sayeth , who so accuseth the pope , can neuer bee forgiuen , and his reason is this , hee that sinneth Concil. tom. 1 in purga . 〈◊〉 agaynst the holy Ghost , shall neuer bee forgiuen , neyther in this worlde nor in the worlde to come . ( I neuer heard so plainely what was the sinne of the holy ghost before , ) If this bee true , that to accuse the pope : is the sinne agaynst the holye Ghost , then it is no 〈◊〉 though the papistes that beleeue this , dare not accuse the pope , but thinke that hee is moste holye what so euer hee doeth , for feare they shall neyther bee forgiuen in this worlde nor in the world to come .

Surely they are sounde and grounded papistes , that beleeue the pope to bee the Lyon of the tribe of Iuda , that hee is the roote of Dauid , that the pope is the lyght that is come into the worlde , that hee is the Sauiour of mankynde , that hee is the Lambe of God that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde , that whosoeuer accuseth him of his wickednesse , doeth sinne agaynst the holye Ghost .

Oh horrible , haynous , and intollerable blasphemie , that whiche is to bee applyed to our Sauiour Christ the Sonne of GOD , and to none other : this vile and moste sinnefull wretche the pope , applyeth to him selfe . I trust there is none of you , bee you neuer so wylfull , obstinate , and bente to the popes Lawe , but as soone as you heare this the popes greate blasphemie , and howe hee taketh that vnto him selfe , that is onely due to Chryste : but speedilye ( except yee are determined to bee the chyldren of the Diuell ) will flye from this Antichriste and his doctrine , and embrace Gods moste holy woorde , for if hee bee not Antichrist , then there was neuer any , nor neuer will be .

These are mine owne woordes whiche you haue displased and falsified , whereby the indifferent reader may plainly 〈◊〉 , that I haue not saide that the papistes holde the Pope to bee very God , neyther haue I lied as you say , but prooued manifestly that the Pope was called an other God in the earth : that hee was published in printed bookes , Our Lorde God the Pope : That the Byshop of Modrusa saide to Pope Leo , Beholde the Lion is come of the tribe of Iuda the roote of Dauid , O most blessed Leo , we haue looked for thee to bee our Sauiour : That the Byshoppe of Bitonto saide , the pope is the light that is come into the worlde . And moreouer , ( which you left out ) that the Embassadours of Cicilia lying on the ground , said to the Pope , Holye Father that takest away the sinnes of the worlde , haue mercie vpon vs , &c. and that it is the sinne against the holy Ghost to accuse the Pope , which shall neuer bee forgiuen .

A man would thinke all this is enough for a Pope , yet you of your 〈◊〉 haue in your margent written Luptons lyes : though you haue not proued anie one lie , neyther confuted any one woorde , but as an vniust Iesuite haue falsified displaced and left out my woordes , and foysted in your owne woordes to make me a lyer . Haue you not gotte a goodly gayne hereby ? yes I trowe , for by your discommending me and my booke , you haue so commended your selfe and your Popes , that you are prooued a falsifier and an enuious Iesuite , and your popes to bee very Antichristes , in that they take vpon them , that which is due vnto Christe . If the Pope haue no better proctors then you : they will rather helpe to poppe him out of his popedome , then proppe him vp in his kingdome .

The 50. part .

WHere as you alledge ( as is before mentioned ) the 〈◊〉 . part . in the 100. page of my booke , I say , that the pope also knowledgeth the thing , taking himselfe indeed to be a God , I am most sure & certain , that I haue no such words at al , musing what shold moue you to father such falshoods on me , vnlesse you pretende purposely to procure me to publish further the pernitious presumptions of your popes . But though I cannot finde your wordes in all the same page , nor yet in any part of my saide booke : heere I will describe the most likest wordes vnto them that are there to bee founde , and these are they , Abbot Panormitane saith out of Hostiensis , Christus & Papa faciunt vnum cōsistorium , & excepto peccato , potest De elect cap licet Ab. Papa quasi omnia facere quae potest Deus . Christ and the Pope make one Consistorie , and sinne excepted , the Pope in a manner can doe all things that God can doe . As you woulde haue your Reader thinke , that your reciting of my wordes is sufficient to make them lyes : so I woulde haue your Reader to iudge , that my reciting of these woordes is sufficient to prooue Panormitan an abhominable and detestable blasphemer . And as you haue falsified my wordes first , and then committed them to bee confuted of your Reader : so I haue written Panormitanes wordes truly , and commit them to the iudgement of the indifferent Reader . For I beleeue it is harde to finde a Reader that will thinke , that Christe and the Pope haue one iudgement Seate , and that the Pope can in a manner doe all thinges that God can doe . But this I will speake on the Popes behalfe , though hee cannot doe all that God can doe , yet am I sure hee can doe more then GOD can doe , for hee can sinne , hee can be a lyar , hee can bee vnmercifull and a tyrant , hee can breake his promise , hee can promise more then hee can performe , and hee can shewe himselfe wiser and mightier then hee is : all which God cannot doe . And thus as Siluester 〈◊〉 Siluester 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . saith , that the authoritie of the Church of Rome is more then Gods worde : So I say the Pope is able to doe more then God can doe , or at the least , that that God cannot doe . Therefore though you a Iesuite doe charge mee with that I neuer wrote : yet I haue not fathered all the falshoods on Panormitan that he hath written . This your falsifyng , displacing , and leauing out of my wordes , and foysting in of your owne , will procure but small praise to your selfe , and lesse credite to your Pope .

The 51. part .

THen you leape sodenly ( I know not vpon what occasion ) to the 172. page , beeing seuentie pages or sides 51. part . from that place at the least : ( which is a lustie leape of a Iesuite , and I may say to you , a fewe such leapes will quickly leape ouer the whole booke . Yea & your leapes are so light , that it will scantly appeare I beleeue , that you haue toucht the booke . ) where , you affirme that I haue written there , That the Pope biddeth vs not to forbeare 172. swearing any day : and so you leaue that matter without any other confuting , and goe no further . If my matters hangd thus as you haue patcht them togeather , my booke had been more meete to haue beene written to one of your vnlearned Popes , then to such a learned and prudent Prince . But because you haue skipt so swiftly & so farre of to these fewe wordes , without declaring any other wordes either before or after the same , & leapes to another matter 21. pages or sides from the same : I will here write mine owne words both going before and following , whereby the indifferent Reader may see whether their matter , method , and sense , bee better where you haue displaced than , then where I first placed them .

When I had confuted in my 〈◊〉 booke some part of the Popes doctrine , I came then as occasion serued to the disprouing of the Popes fast , and when I had discoursed therof as I thought meet , I followed then with these wordes , S. Augustin one of the excellentest Doctors ( whose iudgement Persua . from papistrie . I trust you will not refuse ) writeth : Vpon what daies wee ought not to fast , and vpon what dayes wee ought to Pag. 171. fast , I finde it not appointed 〈◊〉 limited by any 〈◊〉 August . Epist. 86 either of our Lorde , or of the Apostles . But what if S. Augustine had willed vs to fast 〈◊〉 suche dayes as the Pope doth appoint , & a thousand other learned men moe , yet wee are not bounde eyther to beleeue or followe him or them , vnlesse wee finde their sayings agree with Gods worde , for Gods worde must leade them , but they may not leade Gods worde . Therefore because your Popish fast is not commaunded nor allowed by the holy scriptures , but cleane contrary to the same as before is proued , therefore it is superstitious , wicked , and highly displeaseth God , and so of vs Christians ought not to bee vsed nor commended , 〈◊〉 it bee vsed for worldly pollicie . God commanded vs to refraine swering euery day , but for fasting he appointeth vs no day : but the Pope commaundeth vs to fast certaine dayes , but biddeth vs not forbeare swearing any day : Yet many of you regard the Popes lawe so muche , and Gods commaundement so little , that you thinke it a heynous matter to breake the Heere 〈◊〉 my wordes whiche haue another maner of sense then they haue where you placed them . fasting dayes that the Pope hath commaunded : but make it no matter of conscience to sweare euery day , which god hath forbidden . Therefore keepe the fasting dayes commaunded by our Queene for good order and pollicie , & not for the Popes pleasure , for his holines or hypocrisie . &c. Heere haue I written plainely my very woordes with the occasion and circumstances thereof : whereby the indifferent Reader may perceiue that my wordes beeing in their owne place are not without method nor meaning , and that you haue not dealt very honestly with me , to shift my words so farre out of their owne place , into such a strait , narrowe & vnfit corner , yea and that in suche a strange place , and so 〈◊〉 from their friendes , that shoulde haue taken their parte , that they that see them , may suspect them for vagabounds .

If I shoulde vse this order with your booke as you doe with mine , that is to picke out halfe a score wordes , or either moe or lesse where I thought good , & chop 〈◊〉〈◊〉 other wordes 20 or 30. leaues of , yea & with such wordes as appertained nothing to that purpose , & write nothing betwene to confute or reproue them as you do now heere & haue done before : the 〈◊〉 of your booke myght soone hee bereaued , and you thereby shoulde get but small credite , But though you a Iesuite can deale thus falsly 〈◊〉 a 〈◊〉 : yet I a Christian cannot deale so vniustly with a 〈◊〉 . Therefore flee falshood that workes your own shame , and deale truely and vprightly as becommeth the seruants of Iesus .

The 52. part .

AND then againe you leape at one leape 21. pages or 52. part . sides further , and there you cull or weede out about 8. of my wordes , & ioyne them to these words concerning swering before mencioned , nothing touching that matter or purpose , and so you put them at your pleasure , without any circumstance , in a most vnapt place , where they agree aswell as though a dogge and a cat were tyed together . But the vnapter the place is , the better it liketh you . If you were as honest as you count your selfe holy : you would suffer my wordes to goe among their fellowes and acquaintance , and not to fetche them so farre of , and thrust them you care not howe , among alians and strangers . Nay , besides that you haue spoiled them of my liuerey & couered them with your owne coat , wherby they seem not mine but yours , & these are they , that hee ( which is ) the Pope alloweth all priestes to haue 〈◊〉 . harlots . But when you haue thus defaced and displaced them , you neither disproue them nor confute them : but as you haue done with the rest , you leaue them to your Reader to confute . But if I had written the selfe same wordes : ( as I haue not ) yet I haue prooued them before to bee true . But that the indifferent reader may perceiue that my words are neither so false nor so farre out of frame , as you woulde haue them thinke : I will repeate mine owne wordes , and a fewe words besides that immediatly go before , the better to open the cause why I wrote them .

In that part of my booke where I disproue the Pope for forbidding of Priestes marriages , and for allowing or suffering Priestes to haue concubines , among the rest I haue written thus : And in the Rubricke vpon the 34. distinction , Persuasion from papistry Pag. 192. Is qui : is thus : It is lawfull for him that hath no wife , in steede of her to haue a concubine ( heere is good stuffe ) and what is a concubine but an 〈◊〉 ? &c. May Distin. 34. you not nowe perceiue that the Popes lawe is a pure and Is qui. holy lawe , that alloweth Priestes to haue harlots , and forbiddeth Pag. 193. them to haue wiues ? Nay punisheth them and burneth them for Heretikes that haue wiues . Heere it is manifest that I wrote not as you haue misreported 〈◊〉 , that the Pope alloweth all Priestes to haue harlots , but thus , may you not perceiue that the popes lawe is a pure and holy lawe that alloweth priestes to haue Harlots ? Heere I haue not only proued that you wrested and displaced my wordes , but also that the Popes lawe alloweth Priests to haue harlots , though you haue said before , that the Pope taketh not money of the Curtezans and the Harlots of the Stewes of Rome for allowance of their life , but as a punishment of their offence . This kinde of dealing will get you small gaine .

The 53. part .

BUT heere I espie another thing that maketh mee to 53. part . muse , it seemeth you are weerie of leaping forward , for that on a soden you leape or skip bacward . But you haue a speciall propertie that fewe leapers haue , for whereas euery leaper can leape further forward then backward , you excelling al other leapers can leape further backwarde then forwarde : for whereas your last leape forward was not past 21. sides or pages : now you haue leapt backewarde at one leape , 62. pages or sides , whiche is twise as much backward as you leapt forwarde . I woulde hardly haue beleeued ( vnlesse I had seene it ) that a Iesuite coulde haue leapt so farre backwarde at a leape . Out of which place you did take and choose certaine wordes , and ioyne them to your woordes before recited , which you cited as mine , and there you affirme that I say , That hee ( that is Pag. 131. the pope ) giueth licence for money to keepe as many 〈◊〉 Pag. 131. as a man will . And so ( without any mo wordes ) you leaue them as you doe all the rest , for your Reader to confute if he will , for that either you cannot , or els you haue made some vowe that you will not . But what if these words you haue charged me withall , be neither there nor in any other part of my booke : woulde you haue then your reader iudge , that a Iesuite hath dealt iustly with a Christian : If there bee any wordes there to that effect , I will recite them whereby the indifferent Reader may see whether your words that you father on mee agree with mine or not . But before I proceed any further , I will repeat the wordes before of Cardinall Cusanus that gaue me occasion to write them , & these are my very wordes . Marke also what that caterpiller Persuasion from papistry Pag. 129. Cardinall Cusanus writeth for the authoritie of the Romish church aboue the scriptures ? I tell thee ( saith hee ) that there is nothing taken for Christs commaundement , vnlesse it bee so allowed of the Churche ( meaning the churche of Rome ) when the Churche hath chaunged her iudgement , Gods iudgement is likewise changed . Oh abhominable and detestable impes of Sathan , though the whorishe church of Rome may change in her iudgements : yet God in his holy worde is infallible and vnchangeable in his iudgements . What hel hounds are these that would make vs beleeue , that as the popes iudgements doe change , so Gods iudgements doe change , and that nothing is taken for Gods iudgements , vnlesse the Pope & the church of Rome allow of it ? But contrarie say I that the commandements of the Pope , and of their church are nothing vnlesse Christ doth allow them . And after I haue vttered these wordes , I discourst vpon all the ten commandements , alluding them as chaunged into the popes commandements .

And vpon the commandement of committing adultrie , I write thus : And whereas God saith , Thou shalt not com mit adultrie , nowe the iudgement of the Pope and the Pag. 131. church of Rome is changed , and therefore Gods iugdement is changed . So that this law by the iudgemét of the church of Rome must now be thus , thou shalt not marry , but thou maiest haue a concubine or a harlot , to commit adultrie or fornication withall , & thou shalt haue a licence for money of the Pope to do so , and so he shall allow thee to commit adultrie or to play the whoremonger or harlot , but take heede thou marry not according to the lawe of God , for then thou shalt loose all thy liuing , and thou shalt be taken for an heretike , and the Pope will not dispence with thee therefore . These are my wordes , but amongst them all your wordes before mentioned that you haue fathered on me , which are these that folow , ( That he giueth licence for money to keepe as many concubines as a man will ) are not to be found : and therefore you lost your labour to leape so far backward , for that that was not there . But when you saw that you could not find there a fit lie for your purpose : you thought it was better to deuise a lie of your own , rather then you would returne againe without a lie . But though I haue not said that the pope giueth licence for money to keep as many concubines as a man will : yet it appeareth plainely , that he permitteth the women in his stues in Rome for money to play the whores as oft as they list , & men to lie with them as oft as they will , & that he alloweth his prelats & Priestes to play the fornicators , ( but in any wise not to marrie ) as it appeareth in the Popes decrees by these wordes which are before mentioned , He that hath not a wife , in steed Distin. 34. of her must or ought to haue a concubine : And also by Is qui. 〈◊〉 . Anno. 1505. these wordes Videtur quod crimen Meretricit , &c. It seemeth that the Church ought to passe ouer the crime of whoredome vnder dissimulation , with diuers other most diuelish & Consti . Otho . bon. de concub . clerico . remoued , licet ad profug . in glossa . detestable decrees for mainteining of the same as in other places I haue declared before . Wherefore though you woulde haue your Reader to thinke that your wordes were mine , yet you leaue them barely as you haue doone the 〈◊〉 , without disprouing them , leauing them to bee discredited of your Reader : Which you your selfe were not able to confute , and yet they were your owne wordes and not mine , as before it is manifest . A true Christian woulde bee 〈◊〉 to bee taken in suche a trippe , 〈◊〉 I haue now taken you being a Iesuite .

The 54. part .

AFter this , what sodaine toy hath taken you in the head 54. part . I know 〈◊〉 , but you haue iumpt forward fortie sides or pages , where , belike you haue spied some thinge that will serue your turne , which you haue ioyned to your former falsified wordes , and that are these , That his fast is , to cramme in as many banketting dishes as men Pag. 171. can : and there you stay and goe no further , leauing them as you haue doone the rest for your Reader to confute . But as ( according to your wont ) you haue written my words otherwise then I wrote them : so you left out those wordes both before and after them , which openeth the sense thereof , neither haue you declared how I compared the Popes fast and Christes fast together , but because you haue written them both falsely and left them nakedly , to make your reader haue an euill opinion in me , & to discredite my booke : I wil here vtter mine owne wordes that they may shewe whether they are so without order , sense , or good meaning , as you haue gone about to make them . And thus they are as followe . And as this Romish Churche hath with her most wicked prayer , blotted out the pure and perfect order of praying Pèrsua . from papistrie . which Christe did teach in the scriptures : euen so she hath with her vaine , fond , and superstitious fastings quite banished Pag. 170. the true fasting required by the Gospell . For Christe in the Gospel saith , When yee fast be not sad as the hypocrites are , &c. But when thou fastest appeare not vnto Math. 6. men to fast , but vnto thy father which is in secret , and thy father which seeth in secret , shal reward thee openly . Heere Christ doth appoint vs that we must not let it be knowen when we fast , but the popes fast is published , & the dayes so commonly and openly commaunded & appointed , that euery one may know when they fast . So that Christe hath appointed his fasting so priuily : but the Church of Rome proclaimes her fastes as openly . Christ hath appoynted no dayes nor times for his fasting : The Church of Rome hath appointed dayes and times for her fasting . The meaning of Christes fasting is to absteine from what soeuer either meates or drinkes that make vs prone to sinne : The popes fast is to forbeare flesh onely , but permits men to eate all kinde of fishe though it bee neuer so dayntie & These are the words that both falsely & nakedly you haue chopt in so far from their owne place & out of order . deliciously drest , and all kinde of iunkettes and banketing dishes , with delicate wines , as muche as wee will cramme and powrein : Christes fast is to keepe our bodies lowe , to bee in subiection to the spirite : But that is not performed in the popes fast , but by their daintie dishes and drinkes , the Spirite is brought in subiection of the body . Christes fast is a willing and an vncompelled , abstinence : The popes fast is a constrayned abstinence , and is done of many against their wills . Christes fasting is to make vs vertuous and holy before god : The popes fast is hypocritical , and to make vs seeme holy before men . This is difference enough to shewe you that the Christian fasting of Christe , and the common fasting of the Pope , are farre vnlike and do not agree , so that the one shall haue his rewarde hereafter of God , and the other hath his rewarde alredy of men &c.

And this is the circumstaunce , cause , and effect of my woordes . Thus the indifferent reader may perceiue , that you haue not onely altered my woordes , but also through displacing them and cutting them from their 〈◊〉 , which shoulde haue witnessed their true intente , 〈◊〉 , and meaning : you haue gone about to beguile him , yea and moste maliciously to discredite or defame mee . But I trust by that time hee hath weyed my wordes and your wordes together , hee will regarde my booke as it is , and you as you are .

The 55. part .

IF I had made such bagaries in my booke as you haue done 55. part . here in yours , you might then haue iustly saide that I wandred without all witte or learning , for whereas you pickte your last woordes ( though falsely ) out of the 171. page of my booke : nowe on the sudden you haue leapt backwarde againe an 164. pages at the least , which is a great deale further then before . So that it seemeth you haue tryed howe farre ( if neede were ) you can leape backwarde , especially at a dead lift . If you had leapt but halfe a score sides or pages further , you had leapt quite out of the booke : and then you had not founde this snare where with you haue snarled mee . Well , I must gette out of it as well as I may : and these are your woordes that followe , affirming that I say in the 5. and 6. page of my booke . That all papistes are worse and deserue 〈◊〉 death , then drunkardes , theeues , murtherers , page . 5. 6. and pyrates , and so you leaue , neyther disprouing nor confuting them , by any other proofe or argument , but refers it to your reader to confute if he list , as you haue done all the rest : or else perhappes you looke that eyther they shoulde disprooue or confute them selues , or that these your knitting vp wordes that followe , shoulde take the paynes to doe so muche for you . Whiche are , This is Luptons charitable doctrine , with many thinges moe which I omitte .

You haue quoted in your margent that these my wordes are in the 5. and 6. page or side of my booke . Surely if the seuer all matters that you write as mine , were as sentencious as they be short , and were vttered as truly as you haue written them falsely : I am sure you woulde neuer haue cumbarde your booke with them . There are but fifteene woordes of them in all , 〈◊〉 that mee thinkes one side myght haue holden them well enough , especially seeing two lines of one of the sides of my booke holdeth as muche and more .

And I am sure it woulde haue done so ( as the ende of the fifte and 〈◊〉 pages fall out ) if you had written any one Sentence of myne as I wrote it . But as you haue falsisted my wordes before , so haue you done nowe , and you seeme to include as you thought good , the whole circumstaunce and argumentes of these two sides or pages to that ende in your aforesaide fifteene 〈◊〉 woordes , whiche is too straite a roome for a Christian by way of argumente to prooue the easiest matter that is . I knowe not what a Iesuite may doe .

But that it may appeare howe you goe about to disgrace my sayde booke , and to discredite mee by deceauing your reader : I will here recite myne owne woordes , that the indifferent reader may see whether you haue vsed mee indifferently , and whether you ment well to father suche falsehood on mee or not . In deede I haue prooued by argumentes , that you that are obstinate , disobedient , & determined papists , are most earnest Enemies to Englande of all other , and deserue death more then theeues , murtherers , pyrates , coyners and suche like : but that I haue saide that all papistes are woorse and deserue more death then drunkardes , theeues , murtherers and pyrates , I vtterly denie . And in that case of death I named not drunkardes , for that wee haue no Lawe to put them to death . And nowe here followeth mine owne wordes , which I doubt not but that the reader will consider indifferently for vs both .

Our Theeues are English enemies , whereof many steale Pèrsua from papistrie . for necessitie : Vnthriftes are Englishe enemies both to themselues and to other , for that they spende wastfully on Pag. 5. them selues that other haue neede of : Drunkardes are Englishe enemies , but are most of all their owne foes ( vnlesse they kill or hurt any in their drunkennesse ) besides many suche like Enemies : yet all these with manye other , are not suche Englishe Enemies ( vnlesse they bee papistes with all ) but that they loue their prince , obey and followe her godly proceedings , wish her a prosperous raigne , and woulde fight ( if neede were ) for her grace , and helpe to defende this their Countrey from her foes : which may bee counted as friendes in comparison , of you that are suche papisticall Enemies .

For though there are many enemies , as theeues , murtherers , pyrates , coyners , clyppers of money , & counterfeaters of the Queens seale , with diuers other , yet you that are obstinate , disobedient , and determined papistes , are the most earnest enemies to Englande of all other : for if the Queenes Maiestie should enriche , set in authoritie , or promote the sayde theeues , murtherers , pyrates , coyners , clyppers of money , and counterfeaters of her highnesse seale ( vnlesse they be papistes withall ) they would thanke her , loue her , obey her , and obserue 〈◊〉 lawes , and so of Englishe enemies become Englishe friendes , whiche you that are peruerse and determined papistes woulde neuer doe , though her grace should do so to you : for as harlots that loue other better than they loue their husbands , ( though their husbandes loue 〈◊〉 neuer so well ) set all their whole minde , deuises and studies , howe to bee ridde of their husbandes : Euen so you that are obstinate and determined papists ( that are spiritual fornicators ) though the Queenes Maiestie shoulde giue you great liuings , set you in authoritie , or highly promote you : yet for all that your chiefe minde and studie would bee , howe to be ridde of her grace , howe to displace her , and howe to haue a papist to rule in her roome , whereby you might at your own 〈◊〉 commit spirituall whoredom with Idols , Images , and the Masse , whiche you loue better then your owne louing husbande Christe the sonne of God . And thus let the Queenes Maiestie do for you neuer so muche , yet you will not bee Englishe friendes , but vtter enemies to her grace and to Englande your owne natiue Countrey , vntill of peruers papistes you become perfite protestants which is altogether my drift .

Yet I beseech you marke this & consider it wel , though very neede compell the aforesaide ( for the most part ) to be theeues , murtherers , pyrates , coyners of money , and such like , to be Englishe enemies , which may and doe dayly become Englishe friendes : yet there are such lawes for them , as therefore they are put to death . But for you that are obstinate and disobedient papistes ( that are so great enemies to England without neede ) and that nothing can reclaime to bee friendes to Englande : our most mylde and mercifull Queene as yet hath made no suche lawe to put you to death , nor grieuously to punishe you , though you deserue death a great deale more ( all thinges well weyed and considered ) than any of the other 〈◊〉 enemies doe . For if one that clippeth or diminisheth the Queenes coyne , whereon her Image or picture is but printed or stampte , is worthily called a traytor , and by lawe therefore is hanged , drawen and quartered : Then are not you woorthy to bee called traytours and deserue death , whiche procure , wishe or desire , by any meane , the displasinge of your prynce , the destruction of her person , the alteration of our moste quyete and happie state , the calamitie of your Countreymen , the confusion of the common wealth , and the ruine of this our worthy realme of Englande .

Here the indifferent reader may perceine , that by these my argumentes I haue prooued you that are obstinate , peruerse , disobedient , and determined papistes , to be earnest and extreeme 〈◊〉 to Englande , and that you deserue death a great deale more , than theeues , murtherers , pyrats , coiners of money , and such like , but that all papistes are woorse and deserue more death , then drunkardes , theeues , murtherers , and pyrates , as you haue falsely fathered on mee , I am most certayne I neuer sayde , wrote , nor thought : For there are many simple seduced papistes that are not of your mind . You did not meane to declare my woordes effectually , neyther that the trueth of these my argumentes should appeare , seeing you wrote but fifteene woordes of that whiche hardely woulde bee comprehended in fifteene lynes : and yet most vnchristianly you falsified my saying , thereby to wrest the sence of my wordes to that , whiche I mee selfe doe knowe is contrarie and false .

And to what ende haue you done this : for soothe beecause you hate mee for telling of trueth : you woulde haue your reader dispise mee , as one that doth lie . You made a fayre shew with a sentence of Saloman in that first side of your booke , that you Iesuites are vtter enemies to lying , yea and as though there were no such lyers as wee against whome you wrote , saying , a lying witnesse shall haue an euill ende : but I truste the indifferent reader will say that hitherto you haue not taken nor prooued mee with any one lie , though I haue too manifestly proued you with so many , that though perhappes it will not make a Iesuite blushe , it woulde make a Christian marueylously ashamed . If you sought as muche for the fauour of God , as you desire the vaineglory of the worlde : you would not vse lying , which you seeme to dispise , nor yet such falshood which God doth detest . But as your doctrine is diabolicall , so are your doinges hipocritical . You knowe what place is prepared for lyers well enough , God keepe both you and vs from it . He that knoweth his masters will and doeth it not , shall be beaten with many stripes : then you that bring the Scripture against lyers in the firste side of your booke , and vse lying and manifest falshood so oft in your booke , ( vnlesse you repent and amende ) are not like to bee beaten with fewe stripes . It is easie to perceiue whose part you take , for if you tooke Gods part which is the father of trueth , he would guide you in trueth : but seeing you take the Diuels part which is the father of lyes , hee leades you to lying : therefore if you loue God tell the trueth , and if you hate the diuell , flye falshood . Thus you haue peest and patcht my sayings with your 〈◊〉 ragges , and put in and pulled out , chopt and changed , and placed and displaced my wordes as you thought good , with foisting in of your owne woordes whiche I neuer wrote : besides that you haue most nakedly and barely without any circumstances or argumentes , 〈◊〉 vp such a sort of my matters in such a strait roome , that is , in 16. of your litle shorte lynes , the causes , proofes , and effects whereof , are scantly comprehended in so many of my leaues , 〈◊〉 and without disproouing or confuting any parte of the same , For other wordes then mine owne by you cutte short , or 〈◊〉 , or thrust in for mine owne , yon alledged none , as here by your woordes appeareth : for I haue written and set downe all your whole and verie woordes concerning your deriding and slaundering my booke hitherto , without diminishing or adding any thing therevnto . Which plainnesse if you had vsed with mee : you had then written more matter and fewer lyes . And when you had shortened my sayings , maymed my method , cutte off my conclusions , hidde my argumentes , falsified my wordes , and thruste in what you liste , to the disabling of mee , and discrediting of my booke : ( more craftelye then Christianly ) you conclude with these woordes ,

This is Luptons charitable doctrine with manye thinges more which Iomitte , and so you ende without any moe woordes or further argumente : whereby your reader may perceiue the trueth of your dealing , though you say this is Luptons charitable doctrine .

But howe charitable soeuer it is : your doctrine and doinges hether to are not verie commendable .

The 56. part .

ANd nowe that you haue learnedly and cunningly The 56. part . confuted the firste and seconde parte of my booke , ( according to your owne accompt ) onely with displasing , leauing out , and curtalling of my woordes , and foisting in of your own , as before it is manifestly proued : you come to the third part ( as you call it ) and confutes the same , onely with briefe reciting of my wordes , and nowe and then falsifiyng the same as you did before , without any one argument of your own for the disprouing thereof . Thinking belike that your reader is bounde to take all for lies that a Iesuite doth recite . Me thinks you haue taken a very euil course for the discrediting of my booke , for if you are a credible man your selfe , ( as a Iesuite can bee none other ) if you recite a lie , it will bee thought to bee true because you haue tolde it : as if a lyer chaunce to tell trueth , it will not bee beleeued but bee taken for a lie . Nowe chuse you whether you will be counted a credible and a true man , and thereby haue my booke counted for trueth , because my woordes are recited by you : or else to bee a lyer , and to haue my booke taken for false , because you repeate or recite the wordes thereof . But as hither to I haue not left out any one woorde of yours , touching your confuting of my booke , which you call the first and seconde part : so I will not conceale or hide your woordes , touching the rest of my booke whiche you call the thirde part , Whereby the indifferent reader shal perceiue , how learnedly a Iusuite hath confuted a christian with saying of nothing . But it may bee that as lay mens dalliyng and kissing of women , must bee construed or iudged otherwise then priestes dalliyng and kissing of women , ( as before is mentioned ) so perhappes the Iesuites disproouing or confuting , is contrary to the Christians confuting . For as the Christians confute by writing , so the Iesuites may confute by thinking , whiche is a thing necessarie for your reader to vnderstande . For though you doe not drisprooue or confute mee by writing , yet hee maye suppose you haue confuted me by thinking . Therefore if the Iesuites haue that aduantage of the Christian : they may easily and quickly confute what so euer is written against them . And surely if you haue confuted my booke , it must needes bee by thinking and not by writing . And nowe without any falsehood , I will write your owne woordes which you recite as myne , and these are they that followe . Disc. pa. 185.

In his thirde part , hee prooueth his religion by euident Luptons myracles . pa. 294. and manifest myracles , out of Master Foxe his Actes and Monumentes , as for example : That one Burton , Bayliffe of Crowlande in Lincolne shyre , for compelling a curate to say Masse ( vpon zeale of papistrie ) in the beginning of Queene Maries dayes : was afterwardes for his punishment called K. by a crowe that flewe ouer his head . And besides that his 〈◊〉 embrued with the Crowes dongue , that shee let fall vpon him , which dongue did so A 〈◊〉 fellow that forgat by cutting of his beard to saue his life . stinke vpon his beard , as made him continually to vomit for diuers dayes vntill he died most miserably . I remember very well that in the 294. page of my said booke , I haue described a strange example , and a doleful , and miserable end of one Burton Bayliffe of Crowlande in Lincolne shire , a hastie procurer and a great defender of the masse in Queene Maries time , but not altogether vttered in that sort , as here you haue reported it : for I saide not that hee was called R. for his punishment , But though you seeme to deride me for writing of it , yet you haue not so much as with one woorde gone about to disproue it , neither haue you saide that it is false or vntrue , for if you coulde I am sure you woulde . A strange matter that you would haue your Reader to 〈◊〉 my wordes , and yet doe not confute them , nor goe about to disproue them . You say hee compelled him to say masse vpon zeale of Papistrie , But I woulde knowe who willed him to haue such zeale in papistrie ? Or who willed him to haue such a loue to the masse , that hee should hate his brother that God commaunded 〈◊〉 to loue , or threate to thrust his dagger in him , vnlesse hee would say masse ? ( which cruel dealing you haue left out ) . Surely it may well belong to the religion of a Iesuite : but I am sure it is cleane contrary to the religion of a Christian. You call it in the margent Luptons myracle , no it was none of my myracle , it was Gods myracle , yea and suche a myracle , that if you had the feare and grace of God : you woulde not so deridingly and contemptuously , write of the mightie hand and great iudgement of God shewed therein .

You write also in the margent , a simple fellow that forgat by cutting of his beard to saue his life : Either you woulde haue your Reader beleeue that it was a lye , or that hee might haue saued his life by cutting of his beard . If it 〈◊〉 a lye , why haue you not prooued it a lye ? And if it were true ( as it was very true ) doe you thinke that all the cutting or washing of his beard that might bee , was able to saue saue his life whom God did vetermine to bring to his death ? no no , it is impossible . If a little Sparrowe light not on the grounde without Gods prouidence : Then the dounge Math. 10. of this Crowe did not light on the Bearde of this Idolatrous massemonger , the enemie of God , without the foreknowledge and appointment of God , to the shortening of his dayes . If through Gods prouidence Tobias the seruant Tobias . of God was made blinde through the falling of Swallowes dounge : then why shoulde wee not thinke like wise , through Gods prouidence , that this Burton the enemie of God , might bee brought to his death by the stenche of the dounge of a Crowe falling vpon his Bearde ? But because you haue left out some of my wordes , which manifesteth this Gods myraculous might the more , and hath added something of your owne , that diminisheth the credite thereof : I referre the Reader to the very wordes thereof , written according to truth , in the 294. page of my saide booke .

The 57. part .

AFter this you set foorth another of my myracles , but howe like a myracle it is , or whether I wrote it as a 〈◊〉 . part . myracle or to any such ende , let the indifferent Reader iudge . You leapt two great leapes backwarde before , But now you haue shewed your vtter most cunning , whereby it seemeth that you exceede all Christians in leaping backward , for you haue leapt backewarde at this one leape 202. pages or sides , and all to fetche out a meete myracle for your purpose . For amongst all the rest of the myracles , where this Burton the massemonger was placed , ( and yet of either side of him I am sure there were 〈◊〉 store ) you coulde not finde one that woulde serue your turne . So that if you had left out this myracle , for whiche you leapte backward so lustily : then Luptons myracle had been vtterly mard for lacke of company . But to comfort him withall , you haue taken this paines to leape so farre backeward and all to get him a companion . And nowe I will recite your owne wordes , which you pickt out purposely , because they should seeme more like lyes then the 〈◊〉 . And these are your wordes which you alleadge as mine .

Againe ( say you ) that in king Henries dayes , the Earle 〈◊〉 . page . 185. of Wiltshire and others going to Rome , as Embassadors to the Pope , refused to kisse the Popes foote , when he held pag. 92. it out to them : at what time the Earles dogge ( hauing more deuotion to it as he saith then they ) not onely went and kissed the popes foote , but also snatched at his great Poore Pope , that had no chamberlane to keepe out dogs . toe , * signifying therby , that it was a part more fit for dogs to kisse then men . Because this my last myracle may seeme something dark to the Reader , as you haue told the tale , ( for if it make for my turne , you had rather put in lesse then all , ) I will now recite mine owne myracle & the occasion wherfore I wrote it : whereby your Reader may see howe truly you haue told my tale , and also what an apt and fit myracle you haue found out , to be a companion of the other myracle . But I must tell you this by the way , that there where you pickt out this myracle , I talkt chiefly of the popes pride , and not of any myracles , and therefore the more 〈◊〉 for a myracle , if my matter had any good method . And these are my very wordes , which shewe the occasion why I wrote this great myracle of the dogges kissing of the Popes foote .

Pope Adrian saith of himselfe whatsoeuer the Emperor Persua . from papistrie . hath , he hath it of vs , it is in our power to bestow the Empire on whome wee list . ( It may bee so but one may looke Pag. 90. all the bible ouer , ere hee can finde it ) . And also the Pope Auentinus in Adriano . hath made it heresie ( though Christ did not make it ) for a king not to hold his kingdome at his handes , &c. The Pope if we may credite his prerogatiue , being of his owne penning , is of no small power : for hee is called Lorde of Lordes and king of kinges , hee compelleth Emperours and Princes to sweare fealtie and obedience to him .

Cardinall Zabarella saith : the Pope doth what him Stanislaius Orichouius in Chinera Fol. 97. listeth , yea though it be vnlawful , and is more than a god , ( you called it Luptons lyes before , because I wrote that the Pope was called our Lorde God the Pope , but heere one of the Popes owne Cardinalles hath out lyed me , for hee saith that the Pope is more then a God ) . And one saith , that a Prieste is so much aboue a king , as a man is aboue a beast : as much as God is better than a priest , so muche is the priest better than a king : hee that setteth a king before a priest , setteth the creature before the Creator . By this it appeareth that priestes are no small fooles . If this be true , then it is no maruell that men were wont to haue priestes in great estimation and reuerence .

But I maruell that king Iosias was so bolde to burne such a number of Priests that were so farre his Superiors , and that were as farre aboue him , as hee himselfe was aboue a beast . Truly I thinke it was because they could not shewe him their Commissions , belike the lefte them at home . &c.

And nowe marke I pray you ? whether these wicked Popes before mentioned with many other that call them selues Christes vicars , are not more like Lucifer the Diuell in pride , then Christe the sonne of God in humilitie ? I thinke there was neuer such Lordlinesse or pride in any worldly prince , as hath beene in diuers of these wicked Popes : for the Pope suffereth the Emperour ( which is the chiefe rular of all Christendome ) to holde his stirrop , to holde his horse by the bridle , to beare his traine , and to kisse his feete . Yea and the Emperour was shent of Pope Hildebrand , because he held the left styrrop in steede of the right when hee got vpon his horse : there was neuer Emperour nor king , that euer reciued any such seruice of any of the popes .

But the Earle of wiltshire , and the other Embassadors These are the wordes whiche you call one of Luptons myracles . from king Henry the eight to the Pope ( farre inferiour to the Emperour ) refused to kisse the Popes foote , though the pope helde it out purposely therefore : yet the Earle of wiltshires dogge ( hauing a greater deuotion thereto then they ) did not only kisse the popes foote , though thing vnmanerly , but also 〈◊〉 at his great toe : Thinking belike , it was more meete to bee bitten of dogges than to bee kissed of men . Heere is the mightie myracle that youhaue made of this matter , was it not worthy to 〈◊〉 fetcht so farre of , yea and that with such a backward leape ? You perceiue well enough , ( but that you list to deride mee , and to delude your Reader ) that I wrote not this as one of gods myracles , but as one of the Popes proude practises neither is it like in any point , to your former tale of the myraculous worke and great iudgement of God shewed on Burton the 〈◊〉 of Crowlande : vnlesse the presumptuous pride of a Pope may bee compared to the desperate death of a Papist , & vnlesse a dogges snatching at the Popes foote , which did him no harme , be like to the dounging of a Crowe on a mans face ( the Crow fleeing and the man riding ) whiche brought him to his death . You write in the margent . A poore pope that had no chamberlaine to keep out dogs , 〈◊〉 though the office of the Popes Chamberlaine were to whip out dogges . Doe you thinke that an Earles dogge may not come into a Popes chamber : or that a dogge cannot bee so luckie , as to haue one licke at a popes foot : What if GOD would haue vs to vnderstand , that a dogge was as meete to kisse the popes foote : as an owle was fit to bee the popes holy Ghost :

Truly Christ washt his Apostles feete , but I neuer read that they kist his feete , yet Christes feete were as well worthie to be kist as the popes . Therefore all wise men may well thinke , that the popes foote was more meete to bee kist of the Earle of Wiltshires dogge then of him selfe .

And whereas I haue neither made this a myracle , neither written it for a myracle , you thought to make it a myracle , by foysting in your owne wordes , which did cleane turne and chaunge my sense , for whereas I say , But also snatcht at his great toe , thinking belike it was more meete to be bitten of dogges than to be kissed of men : You haue written thus , but also snatched at his great toe , signifiyng thereby that it 〈◊〉 a part more fit for dogges to kisse than men . Thus it is manifest , that you haue thrust in signifiyng thereby , for my words , thinking belike , 〈◊〉 hath so 〈◊〉 and changed my sense and meaning , that it appeareth a myracle by your wordes , which is , that the dogge did signifie by his snatching at the Popès great toe , that it was a part more fit for dogges to kisse then men . Therfore it must needs appeare a myracle to euery one that reades this , as you 〈◊〉 it , for is it not myraculous for a dog to haue such diuine knowlege , to signifie vnto the people , wherfore he hath done a thing , & specially such a mysticall matter as the kissing of the Popes foote : Truly you went very farre before , when you told the cause why M. Nicols was borne at 〈◊〉 in Wales , and in telling my thought , or what I woulde haue saide : but herein you haue shewed your selfe to be of a more deepe and profounde iudgement , in shewing the intent and meaning of the Earle of Wiltshires dogge , for you haue flatly told , what hee did signifie by his snatching of the Popes great toe . Wherefore though you counted this for my myracle , I must confes it is none of mine but yours , for now I perceiue a Christian is farre vnable to compare with a 〈◊〉 in making of myracles . It was happie that you changed my wordes , and thrust in your owne wordes in their place : or els we had had no myracle of the dogs kissing of that Popes feete . Now I trust you wil mende the word , Myracles , in the margent of your booke , and write Luptons Myracle in steede of myracles , for there was but two in all , and one of them of right is returned to your selfe . Wishing that you , ( because it is not meete you shoulde lacke your due praise ) to write in the margent against the myraculous storie of the Earle of Wiltshires dogge , ( The Iesuites myracle ) . The 〈◊〉 myracle .

But I muse that you tooke such paines to leape so farre backward for this that is no myracle , and might haue , had halfe a dosen at the least hard by with easily going forward , yea and touching the same matter , and tending to suche end , as the myracle of Burton , which you recited before . But because that myracle of Burton ( which you call my myracle ) hath lost his companion , and is now cleane without companie , therefore I will place some of his olde fellowes with him , ( which you either sawe not or woulde not see ) for that I am loth that hee shoulde be without some comfort or companie : for you know it is very vncomfortable to stande moping alone , and these be they that follow .

One Richard Denton hauing wordes of commendations Pers. from papistry . Pag 296. sent to him from one William Woolsey that was after burned for professing of the Gospell : which were , that hee marueiled that the saide Denton tarried so long beehinde him , seeing he was the first that deliuered him the booke of the Scriptures into his hand , and told him that it was the truth , desiring him to make hast after as fast as hee coulde . Which Denton saide , when the saide message was doone to him , I confesse it is true but alasse I cannot burne . But after though hee could not burne willingly in Christes cause : hee was burned against his wil not in so good a cause . For after that , his house being on fire , hee went in to saue his goods , and thereby hee was burned and lost his life . And thus hee was burned for earthly goods : that refused to burne for heauenly treasure .

Also one dale a Promoter of the professours of Gods Pag. 296. word , ( & that helped them forward to the fire ) was eaten into his body with lyse , and hee so died , as it is wel knowen of many .

Alexander the keeper of Newgate , a cruell enemie to Pag. 297. them that lay there for this our religion : died very myserably , being so swolne , that hee was more like a monster then a man , and was so rotten within , that no man coulde abide the smell of him .

Beholde also another myracle of God on the Parson Pag. 297. of Crundall in kent , who vpon Shrouesunday , hauing receiued the Popes pardon from Cardinall Poole , came to the Parishe Churche , and exhorted the people to receyue the same , as hee had doone him selfe , saying , that hee stoode nowe so cleere in conscience as when hee was first borne , and cared not nowe if hee shoulde die the same houre , in that cleerenesse of conscience . Whereupon he being strucken sodenly by the hand of God , and leaning a little on the one side , immediatly shronke downe in the pulpet & so was found dead , speaking not one worde more , &c. Beholde another straunge myracle , which God shewed on the proude papistical persecutor Pag. 299. of Gods seruants in Queene Maries time , Steeuen Gardiner , then Lord chauncellour of England , who after so long professing of your papisticall doctrine , when there came a Bishop to him on his death bed and put him in remembrance of Peters denying of his master , he answering againe , said , that he had denied with Peter , but neuer repented with Peter . And so both stinkingly and vnrepentantly dyed . You could not spie this myracle , or els you Pag. 302. thought it would not serue your turne . Here is also an other which if you marke well , is more like a myracle then that that you made of the Earle of Wiltshires dogge .

As one Iames Abbas a professour of the Gospell in Q. Maries time , was led by the Shiriffe to the fire where hee was burned at Bury , diuers poore people 〈◊〉 in the way and asked their almes , he 〈◊〉 hauing no money to giue them , and desirous yet to distribute something among them : 〈◊〉 pull of all his apparrell sauing his Shirte , & 〈◊〉 the same vnto them , to some one thing , to some another . In the giuing whereof he exhorted them to be strong in the Lord , and as faithfull followers of Christ , to stand stedfast 〈◊〉 the truth of the Gospell , which he ( through Gods helpe ) 〈◊〉 then in their sight seale and confirme with his blood .

While he was thus charitably occupied and 〈◊〉 instructing the people , a seruant of the Sheriffes going by and hearing him , cryed out alowde vnto them , and blasphemously saide , beleeue him not good people , hee is an heretike and a madde man out of his wit , beleeue him not , for it is heresie that hee saith . And as the other continued in his godly 〈◊〉 , so did this wicked 〈◊〉 still 〈◊〉〈◊〉 his blasphemous exclamations , vntill they came to the stake where hee shoulde suffer , vnto the which stake this constant Martyre was tyed , and in the ende cruelly burned . But immediatly after the fire was put vnto him , the same 〈◊〉 that did raile on him , ( saying that hee was an heretike and madde ) was there presently in the sight of all the people stricken with a frensie ( such was the great strocke of Gods Iustice on him for his blasphemous rayling ) and was then madde in deede , ( as hee before had charged the martyre with all ) who in his furious rage and madnesse , casting off his shooes withall , and the rest of his clothes , cryed out vnto the people and saide , Thus did Iames Abbas that true Seruant of God , who is saued but I am damned . And thus ranne hee rounde about the towne of Bury still crying that Iames Abbas was a good man and saued , but hee was damned . The Sheriffe then beeing amased , caused him to be taken and tied in a darke house , and by force compelled him againe to put on his clothes : thinking thereby within a while to bring him to some quietnes . But hee ( all that notwithstanding ) as soone as they were gone , continued his former raging and casting off his clothes , and cryed as hee did before , Iames Abbas is the seruant of God and is saued , but I am damned . At length hee was tyed in a Carte and brought home to his masters house , and within halfe a yeere after , or there aboutes ( he being at the point of death ) the priest of the parish was sent for , who comming to him , brought with him the crucifixe , and their 〈◊〉 hoste of the alter , whiche geare when the poore wretche sawe , hee cryed out of the priest and defied all that baggage , saying , that the Priest with such other as hee was , were the cause of his damnation , and that Iames Abbas was a good man and saued , And so , shortly after hee died .

This is something more like a myracle then that of the Earle of Wyltshires dogge . I much maruel that you tooke suche payne to leape such a great leape backward , to make a myracle of a dogge , whiche was no myracle : and myght with stepping but a litle forwarde , haue founde this wonderfull and marueilous myracle of a man . But you 〈◊〉 and marueylous myracle of a man . But you perceiued full well that though it was a better myracle then the other : yet it woulde not serue your turne so well as the other .

And whereas you 〈◊〉 suche a great leape backwarde , & all to picke out a fantastical myracle out of a dog : you might ( but that it liked you not ) with one small steppe forwarde , haue quickly taken a most true and straunge myracle out of a Bull , whiche here I will place as a fit companion of that which you recited of Burton the Bayliffe of Crowland . & as it liked you for your pleasure , to put in that , calling it Luptons myracle : so it liketh me for my pleasure to put in this , which I am sure was Gods mightie myracle . And whereas you began the first myracle with a Crowe , I will nowe ende the last myracle with a Bull. And thus it followeth . There was a certain godly woman condemned to be burned for Pag. 305. the professing of the Gospell in king Henrie the Seuenthes time , by one Doctor Whittington the Bishops Chauncellour , which woman was burned in a Towne called Cheping sadberte , at whose execution was not onely the said doctor Whittington that condemned her , but also a very great number of people . And when she was dead and burned , the people began to turne homewarde . It happened in the meane time , as these catholike executors were busie in the 〈◊〉 of this sillie Lambe at the Townes side , a certaine Butcher within the Towne , was as busie in slaying of a Bull , which Bull he had fast bound in ropes ready to knocke him in the head . But the Butcher ( belike not so skilfull in his arte in killing of beasts , as the papists be in murthering Christians ) as he was lifting the Axe to strike the bull , fayled in his stroke , & smit a little to lowe : or else howe he did smite I knowe not , but this was certayne , that the Bul something greeued with the stroke , but yet not stricken downe , put his strength to the ropes , and brake loose from the Butcher into the streete the verie same time , as the people were comming in very great prease from the burning of the godly woman . Who seeing the Bull comming towardes them , and supposing him to be 〈◊〉 ( as was none other like ) gaue way for the Bull , euery man shifting for himselfe as wel as he might . Thus the people giuing backe , and making a lane for the Bull , he passed through al the throng of them , touching neither man , woman , nor chylde , till he came where the chancellor was . Against whom , the Bul as pricked with a sodeine vehemencie , ranne ful but with his homes , and taking him vpon the paunch : gored him through and through , and so killed him immediatly , carrying his guts , and trailing them with his hornes all the 〈◊〉 ouer , to the great wonder of all them that saw it .

Now say you , is not this as likely to bee a myracle that the bul killed the chancellour among all this greate throng of people , and to hurte none but him : as for the Earle of Wiltshires dog , to snatch only at the popes great toe , and at no bodies els ? though you Iesuites doe not take it to be 〈◊〉 yet we Christians are most certaine that it is so . And because you shall see the difference betweene your papisticall persecutors , & our persecuted protestants , I will here put you in mind of a marueilous myracle of one that died for the testimonie of the gospel , with is not ful fiue leaues before your mocked miracle of Burton : this is it that foloweth , with is worth the marking .

A litle before the death of one Thomas Hawkes that was Pag. 285. burned for the profession of the gospell at a towne in Essexe called Coxhall , certaine of his frindes priuily desired that in the mids of the flames he woulde shewe them some token , if he could , wherby they might be more certain whether the paine of such burning were so great , that a man might therin keep his minde quiet and pacient : which thing he promised them to do . And so secretly between them it was agreed , that if the paine might be suffered , them he shold lift vp his handes aboue his head towards heauen , before he gaue vp the Ghost And when he was brought to the stake to be burned , there mildely & patiently he addressed himself to the fire , hauing a strait chaine cast about his midle : after whose 〈◊〉 praiers made vnto god , the fire was set vnto him , in the which when he continued long , & when his speech was taken away by violence of the flame , his skin also drawen together , and his fingars consumed with the fire , so that all men had thought certainly he had 〈◊〉 dead , suddenly , & contrary to expectation , the said blessed seruaunt of God ( being mindfull of his promise before made ) reached by his handes burning on a light fire ( which was marueylous to beholde ) ouer his head to the liuing God , and with great reioycing ( as it seemed ) strooke or clapped them three times together . At the sight whereof there followed such an outcrie of the people , and especially of them which vnderstoode the matter , that the like commonly hath not been hearde , and so this blessed seruant of God , strayght way synking downe into the fire , gaue vp his Spirite .

If you had been as quicke a sighted Christian as you were a blinde Iesuite , and as pure a Protestance as you were a peruerse papist , you woulde haue seene this marueylous myracle , and not haue ouerleapt it so farre backwarde . I maruell that you tooke such paynes to leape an hundreth leaues for a false miracle of a dog , and might so easely ( and that so nie at hande ) haue had a true miracle of a faithfull man . Belike it was eyther to bright for your dymme eies to beholde , for that you made suche haste to the dumbe dogge of an Erle : that you had no leasure to staye and beholde the Seruaunt of God .

Thus if you had been as well willing to make but halfe a steppe as it were eyther backwarde or forwarde , as you were of set purpose wilfully bent , to make such an vnreasonable leape backewarde , you might haue been easely spedde of better & truer myracles then of the Earle of Wyltshires Dogge . But because you thought that ( without any further circumstaunce as you would dresse them ) the one would be derided and the other discredited : therfore you pickt them out of all my whole booke for the nonce , and as a godly godfather haue giuen them a name , calling them Luptons myracles . But because I haue prooued , that of the Earle of Wyltshires Dogge to bee a myracle of your own making , therefore from hence forwarde it shall bee called the Iesuites myracle . And nowe seeing you began with the first myracle , I haue made an eude with the last myracle , hoping you will winne as litle credite by medling with my myracles , as you get gaine by controlling of the title of my booke .

Thus you haue cunningly confounded my matter , and miracles , onely reciting them as it pleaseth you , adding to your owne wordes , and diminishing mine as you thought good , without eyther disproouing or 〈◊〉 them at all , according to your wonted order : which you woulde haue your indifferent reader thinke , to bee a sufficient disproouing and confuting . But I hope the indifferent reader ( not armed with affection ) wil iudge that you haue wandered vnwisely , and vsed me vnchristianly .

The 58. part .

ANd then you ende ( with your supposed or thinking confutation The 58. part . of my booke ) with these wordes folowing . Disc. pa. 186.

All these thinges and many more the like , he prooueth out of master Foxe his Martirologe , otherwise called Acts & Monumentes , tyed with long chaynes in al Churches of Englande , to be read with deuotion .

The more like the rest of the myracles bee to these , the more I am sure you mislike them . I neede not bee ashamed to prooue them by the booke of that learned and godly M. Fore , called Acts and Monuments , for that it is a worke of great credit and authoritie . Which booke he hath most diligently & painefully set forth with such knowledge & truth : that you may barke or rayle against it , but the learnedest Iesuit or papist of you al , shal neuer be able to disproue , confute or confound it , do what you can . And though it be but lately set forth and the author thereof yet aliue : I haue prooued before by sufficient argumentes , that the thinges therein , are nowe as well to bee produced , and also to be credited , as though the authour were dead a thousande yeeres since .

The 59. part .

YOu say that it is tyed with long chaynes in all Churches 59. part . of England to bee read with deuotion . I would that a Iesuite were herein no lyer . If you had not your popish masse and your other idolatrous seruice in mo Churches in Italie , Fraunce , and Spaine , & Gods word truely preached in all the rest , then we haue those bookes in the Churches of Englande , the popes pompe and power woulde quickly perishe , and your romishe Church woulde florishe but a while .

As you haue continued your course against me , most falsly and vntruly , so you haue ended the same with a manifest vntrueth . For I am most assured that euery Church in London hath neyther the same booke tied nor vntied , ( I wish they had ) then can it be thought that euery Church in Englande hath them : I am most certayne that no smal number that fauour your papistical religion here in this realme of england , will thinke that herein you haue waded too farre and fowlie ouer shot your selfe , who must needes witnesse agaynst you that this same booke that you say is tyed with long chaynes in all Churches of Englande , is not in the Churches where they dwell neyther tyed nor vntyed .

Before you had some shadowe to couer your lies , but you can not shadowe this it is so manifest . You sayde before that I wandred by certayne controuersies , but as without all wic and learning : but here you haue vnwisely ended with a lie without any 〈◊〉 . It seemeth that you had forgotten the beginning of your booke , when you wrote the latter ende of your booke , for in the first side of your booke , you bring a text of Salamon against liers : but in the latter end of your book , without eyther Scripture or text you play the lier your self . What a shame is it for you at your first entrie to seeme to defend truth , and to ende your book with such a manifestlye ? Your owne woordes in the beginning of your discouerie doe showe what you are like to come to , for the latter ende of your discouerie . For there you say according to Salamon , a lying witnesse shall haue an euill ende : then can you looke , ( making such an apparant lie in the latter ende of your booke ) for a good ende . If you were a fauourer of the gospell as you are an enemie to the Gospell , you would then frame your selfe to speake trueth , as now you giue your self , to fable and lie .

As the spirite of God doeth direct the godly professour of Gods worde to write truely : so the spirite of Satan procureth the professours of Papistrie , to speake or write falsely .

And where you say ( rather mockingly then modestly ) to bee read with deuotion : A man may reade the wise and learned answeres , the pacient sufferings , and the whippings , scourgings , and tormentings of the godly Gospellers with more deuotion , then your Romanes that before you wrote of , can whip and scourge themselues for their owne offences , yea though they scourge all the blood out of their bodies . And though you Iesuites thinke , that the reading of that most excellent & necessarie booke , will worke small deuotion in them that reade it : yet wee Christians doe beleeue , that you that write against the truth , falsifiyng mens writings , and make such manifest lyes , doe not the same with any godly deuotion . I hope wee Christians may reade master Foxes martyrologe with as great deuotion , that expresseth the doyngs of the Saints of God , that dyed wrongfully for professing Gods worde as you Iesuites may read your Popish martyrologe of the popes traiterous Saints that were iustly executed for murther and treason . Thus though you thought vtterly to defame and discredite mee beeing a Christian : by that time that the indifferent Reader haue read this throughly , I thinke you will wiune but small credite though you bee a Iesuite .

The 60. part .

YOu speake these words in the knitting vp of yuor said Discouerie , As long as there shall bee either honest , vertuous , learned , wise , modest , noble , or gentle minde in Englande , so long shall wee gaine by these their proceedings . You haue a very good opinion in your works and writings , for though your cause be neuer so course , and your writings be neuer so false : yet by your saying , there is neuer honest , vertuous , learned , wise , modest , noble nor gentle minde in England , but such as take your cause to bee good , and your religion true . And as long as there is any suche you shall gaine and that by óur writings and proceedinges . Then by this your sayings it appeareth , if you chaunce to loose and wee gaine by your proceedinges : then there is neuer an honest , vertuous , learned , wise , modest , noble , nor gentle minde in Englande . This is the definitiue sentence of a Iesuite , therefore it must needes be true . Wherefore it were best for vs to suffer you to gaine by our proceedings , least all our honest , vertuous , learned , wise , modest , noble or gentle minds in England vanish quite away out of Englande , and then were Englande vtterly marde . But if you count your losses with your winnings , I feare at the ende of your account , your gayne will not bee very great , nay it will seeme rather that you haue loste then wonne : and so your loosing hath made vs loose all our honest , wise , and vertuous , Noble men , and Gentle men , wherewith Englande was wont to florishe when you did gaine or win . What a most spitefull saying and an arrogant 〈◊〉 is this of a Iesuite 〈◊〉 though there were neuer an honest , vertuous , learned , wise , modest , noble nor gentle minde in England , that are contrarie to your religion , or that will not suffer you to gaine by your lying , and to winne by your wicked writing . Here in the knitting vp you haue shewed what you are , for as you haue proceeded with vntruth so you end with falshood . And as you haue runne this your rase vntruly and vnchristianly : so you haue ended the same most 〈◊〉 and arrogantly . And now for that you haue detracted my said booke ( called a persuasion from papistrie ) to bring it into such contempt , that thereby it shoulde not bee read : though you bee a Iesuite you may bee deceiued , for whereas you thought to haue blowne out the fier , it may be the thereby , you haue kindeled the flame . For you haue so 〈◊〉 mee to defende it , that many perceiuing heereby howe vniustly you haue charged mee with 〈◊〉 : may haply reade and peruse it , that otherwise ( if you had not been too busie with your penne ) should neuer haue hearde of it , whereby your doctrine may the more be despised . And thus ( as many haue doone ) perhaps you may loose by that you hoped to winne . I 〈◊〉 you are fullier answered then you looked for , and more reproued and confuted then your friendes wold haue thought : for your faire shew is turned into a foule shadowe , your pretended wisedome into manifest folly , & your curious cunning , into counterfeating & lying : though some ( more armed with affection than ruled with reason ) haue bragd , that your learning is so great , and your saide booke so true , that the one shoulde seeme incomparable , and 〈◊〉 other vnreproueable . Not doubting but that they that shall reade this my booke , written as an answere to you , and in the defence of my saide booke , called A persuasion from papistrie , will not easily bee persuaded that my saide booke whiche you counte so light , and so full of lyes , is without all method or matter : which I dedicated and deliuered with mine owne handes to the most famous learned and mercifull princes of the world , whose subiect I am , & whom I am most bound vnder God to obey . And if I were as great a lyer as you woulde fayne make me : yet what wise man wil thinke that I durst once presume to lyne that booke with lies , that I gaue to her grace ? But though you ( as it becommeth a Iesuite ) went about as much as in you laye to diseredite mee and my saide 〈◊〉 , and thereby to make mee loose the fauour of men : yet I ( as beseemeth a Christian ) wishe with all my heart , that you may 〈◊〉 the holy 〈◊〉 , and of a false Iesuite become a true Christian , whereby you may obtayne the fauour of God .

FINIS . Uirescit vulnere veritas .