A profitable dialogue for a peruerted papist. Or a little labour of a lay men tending to the profit of a peruerted Papist: namely, by laying open vnto him his ovvne errour, in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre. Composed in dialogue maner, as it were betweene a simple lay man, and certayne graue diuines, and published onely for the benefit of the lay Papist. VVritten by R.M. gent. and student in Diuinity.

A profitable Dialogue for a peruerted Papist .

Wherein he may clearely discerne his owne error , in beleeuing that the Church of Rome cannot erre .

The first part , briefly treating of the Church . Lay man .

DIuine Augustine , forasmuch as thy proper workes are of great fame & estimation in the Church of Rome ; ( which now in part is fallen from that her first faith and integrity which sometime thou didst know her sincerely to hold ; ( for she doth now presumptuously auouch , that she can not erre in any substantiall poynt of the Christian faith , and by reason of that vaine and presumptuous opinion , she is fallen by euill custome , into diuers errours , by which , great controuersies among Christians do arise ; ) therefore in the behalfe of many simple Lay people , we most earnestly craue of thée ( Reuerend Father ) to tell vs directly thy true opinion , touching the vayne opinion of them , which hold that the same Church cannot erre .

We certaynely perswade our selues , that thy direct answeres herein , will greatly preuayle with those our aduersaries ; for some of them haue written a a N. D. Author of the Wardword in his 1. booke of of the ● conuersions of England , Chap. 3. as a matter of great moment against Heretiks , that Wheresoeuer any doctrine is found in any of the Ancient Fathers , which is not contradicted , nor noted by any of the rest , as singular ; that doctrine is to be presumed to be no particular opinion of his , but rather the generall of all the Church in his dayes ; for that otherwise it would most certaynly haue bin noted and impugned by others , &c. Therefore whatsoeuer is spoken by thée ( learned Aug. ) not yet contradicted , they must thereby graunt it to be the Trueth of the Church in thy flourishing dayes .

We confesse , that the true holy Catholike Church cannot finally erre ; for hell gates are not able to preuayle against it : b b Mat. 16. 18. but this holy Catholike Church , we vnderstand to consist onely of the Elect , as our Créede witnesseth , euen the Communion of Saynts , which without spot or wrinkle , Christ , by his precious bloud , hath made glorious to himselfe c c Ephe. ● . 27. ; for against all other , hell gates doe preuayle ; and that doeth the Euangelist S. Iohn witnesse , saying , d d 1. Iohn . ● . 19. They went out from vs , but they were not of vs : for if they had bene of vs , they would haue continued with vs : But this commeth to passe , that it might appeare , that they are not all of vs , &c.

But it is euident , that against whosoeuer hell gates may preuayle , they also may erre : ( for it is most true , that none can erre more , then those that take the ready way to hell , supposing they goe to heauen . ) By which , we may well hold , ( against the Church of Rome ) that not all which receyue the outward Sacrament of Baptisme , are then made members of that Church which cannot finally erre . And by this wée may well proue also , that the Bishop of Rome may as much erre , as the meanest of vs Laymen .

Saint Ambrose sayth , c c Vpon S. Luk● , the 6. Booke , & 9. Chap. that The foundation of the Church is sayth . If thou wilt be a Rock ( sayth he ) thou shalt be in the Church , because the Church is vpon a Rock ; if thou be in the Church , the gates of hell shall not preuayle against thee : the gates of hell , are the gates of death , but the gates of hell , cannot be the gates of the Church ; And what are the gates of death ( that is to say , the gates of hell ) but euery one of our seuerall sinnes ? &c. And more in an other place , f f Vpon the 40. Psalm. Where Peter the Rock is , ( saith he ) there is the Church , where the Church is , there is no death , but eternal life ; and therefore he added , And the gates of hell shall not preuayle against it .

He then that liues and dyes in his sinnes , both liues and dyes out of the vnity of that holy Church , against which , hell gates can not preuayle .

But for these things , speake , diuine Augustine .

Aug.

My sonne , g g Against Cresconius the 2 , booke Chap. 21 , 22. The Apostle Paul doth say , h h Ephe. ● . 2. that the Church is made subiect to Christ ; The Church therefore ought not to preferre her self before Christ , that she should thinke to be able to baptize those which are iudged or condemned by him ; but not possible of her selfe to baptize them , because he alwayes iudgeth truely , but the Iudges of the Church , as being men , are often deceyued ; Therefore forasmuch as pertayneth to the visible ministery , both good and euill baptize : But by them he doth inuisibly baptize , of whom both the visible baptisme , and the inuisible grace is . Both good and euill then may sprinkle : but to wash the conscience , not any can do it , but he which is alwayes good * * None but God alwaies good . . And by this also , by reason of the euill and polluted conscience , the Church is ignorant of such as are condemned by Christ . They are not then in the Body of Christ , which is the Church , because Christ can not haue condemned members , &c. ( Who then can poynt to those that can not erre ? )

Although both good and euill i i In his booke of the vnity of the Church , chap. 18. may giue and receyue the Sacrament of Baptisme , yet not any are spiritually regenerated & built together in the body and members of Christ , but the good .

Doubtlesse , in the good is that Church , by whom it is sayd , k k Canti . Cap. ● . 2. Like a Lilly among the thornes , so is my Loue among the daughters , &c. For it is in those that build vpon the Rocke , that is , those which heare the words of Christ , and doe them : ( for it was sayd to Peter , l l Mat. 16. 18. conf●ssing Christ the Sonne of God , And vpon this Rocke I will build my Church . ) It is not then in th●se which build vpon sand , that is , those which heare the words of Christ , and do them not ; for he sayth , m m Mat. 7. 24. He that heareth my words and doeth the same , I will liken him to a wise man , which builds his hous● vpon a rocke . And in the same place , a little a●t●r , he sayth , He which heareth my words , and doeth them not , I will liken him to a foolish man , which builds his house vpon sand , &c.

Those then that are incorporated by the ioyning of charity , dwelling vpon the Rocke , and standing together bright as a Lilly among thornes , they shall verily poss●sse the kingdome of God . But those which buyld vpon ●and , or are accounted as thornes , who can doubt that they shall not possesse the Kingdome of GOD ? Truely , the Sacrament of Bapti●me profits not such , &c. They shal not possesse the kingdome of God : and therefore they are no● on the Rocke : and because they are not on the Rock , without all doubt , they are not to bee accounted in the Church , because vpon this Rocke , sayth he , I will build my Church , &c.

Lay.

To those that are not wilfully obstinate in erronious opinions , thou hast sayd inough for this matter ( most reuerend Father : ) for here thou dost most plainly declare vnto vs , who they are , of whome the true Church ( the Spouse of Christ ) consisteth ; euen those that heare the words of Christ , and do them : they onely build vpon the Rock , against which , hel gates cannot preuavl● ; for ( as thou dost most truely affirme ) whosoeuer builds not vpon that Rock , without al doubt they are not to be accounted in the true Church , because vpon the same Rocke , that Church is built .

But what is thy opinion , touching Peter , and Peters successours in Peters chayre , which in the new Law ( as some say ) is answerable to the chayre of Moses ? If they heare the words of Christ , and do them not , shall they yet notwithstanding be obeyed , as men that cannot erre ?

Aug.

My sonne , n n In his 〈◊〉 Sermon vpon S. Mat. This name that he should be called Peter , was giuen him of our Lord , because by that figure , he might signifie the Church : for Christ is the Rocke , Peter the Christian people ; for that Rocke is a principall name : Therefore he is Peter from the Rocke , not the Rocke from Peter , euen as Christ is not called from a Christian , but a Christian from Christ . Thou art therefore Peter , ( sayth he ) and vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed , vpon this Rocke which thou hast acknowledged , ( saying , Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God ) I will build my Church , that is , vpon my selfe the Sonne of the liuing God , I will buyld my Church : vpon mee , I will buyld thee , not mee , vpon thee : for men ( willing to be built vpon men ) say , I verily am of Paul , but I belong to Apollos , but I am of Cephas , which is Peter ; But others ( which would not build vpon Peter , but vpon the Rocke ) say , But I am of Christ , &c. 1 Cor. 1. 12.

Many in the Church follow after earthly businesses , o o In his 46. Treatis vpon S. Iohn . yet they preach Christ , and by them the voice of Christ is heard ; but the sheep follow not the hirelings , but the voyce of the Shepherd by meanes of the hirelings .

Note , the Lord himselfe doth declare vnto you , what hirelings are : p p Mat. 23. 2 , 3. The Scribes and the Pharises ( sayth he ) sit in the chayre of Moses , what they say , do , but what they do , that do not . What other thing sayd he , but , By hirelings , heare the voice of the Shepherd ? for fitting in Moses chayre , they teach the Law of God : therefore God teacheth by them : But if they teach their owne , neyther heare nor do , ( what they say : ) for truely , such seeke their owne , not those things which are of Iesus Christ , &c.

Lay.

It séemes then , by thy iudgement , that we must not build vpon men , of what calling or place soeuer , vnlesse what they teach , be agréeable to the Law of God ; and herein indéed thou doost follow the good counsell and aduice of blessed Paul , who sayth plainely , touching the visible Church , q q Gala. 1. 8. Though that we , or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise , then that which we haue preached vnto you , let him be accursed , &c. And thereby proues inuincibly , that no doctrine is to be receyued in the Church , ( although constituted by the Church ) contrary and besides that pure doctrine , taught from the beginning . And the same thing doth S. Iohn proue also , r r 1. Iohn . ● . 24. & ● . 1. and therefore our aduersaries of Rome would gladly proue some of their owne doctrines , to be the traditions of the Church , receyued first from the Apostles themselues : and vainely they boast , as a great matter against vs , that we are not able directly to shew the time when the Church of Rome fell into any Error , nor by whom shée was first brought into errour . But all this is but vaine cauelling ; for the deuill hath not so little craft in him , as to change good to euill , suddenly ; for then the euil could hardly take place ; but by little and little , ( which craft by a great number , is little or nothing perceyued at the first , ) he brings much euill into the Church . By continuance of time , the often droppes of water haue made a hole in the hardest stone : but none could tell the time directly when that hole was made . It is sufficient , to proue the Church of Rome to teach now , contrary to the doctrine taught in the same Church aboue a thousand yeres since : which thing is easie to be proued by the helpe of thée and other ancient witnesses .

They séeme also to make good and lawfull their owne Doctrines and Traditions besides the Scriptures , by that place in the Gospell , where our Sauiour sayth to his Disciples , s s Iohn . 16. 12 , 13. I haue yet many things to say to you , but ye can not beare them now , howbeit , when he is come , which is the Spirit of Truth , he shall lead you into all trueth , &c. But what sayest thou ( ancient Augustine ) to this delusion of theirs ?

Aug.

My sonne , t t In his 97. Treatis vpon S. Iohn , and in his 96 , Treatis . By this occasion of the Euangelicall sentence , ( where our Lord sayth , I haue yet many things to say to you , &c. ) all the most foolish heretickes ( that would be called Christians ) go about to colour the boldnesse of their owne inuentions , &c. But who dares to auouch , that such and such are those things ( which Christ had to say to his Disciples ? ) and , if they do auouch it , how do they proue it , & c ?

Lay.

To this thou hast answered very playne : for by this thy playne speach , we well perceyue thy meaning in an other place , u u Against the Epistle of Fundament , Chap. 5. where thou sayest , that Thou shouldest not haue beleeued the Gospell , vnlesse the Authority of the Church had moued thee thereunto , &c. Wée also in these our dayes may iustly auouch the same thing , because first , the authority of the Church is the meanes ( for the most part ) to moue the outward man both to know and beléeue , and also to reuerence the holy Scriptures . But tell vs yet ( reuerend Father ) is that authority still absolutely to be obeyed , albeit it teach vncertayne things , which the Scripture doth not allow ? or may we then lawfully forsake it , although by the same meanes we first beléeued ?

Aug.

My sonne , x x Against the same Epistle , Chap 14. What haue we to do , but to forsake them that inuite vs to know things certayne , and afterwards commaund vs to beleeue things vncertayne ? and to follow them which inuite vs first to beleeue , that which we are not yet able to behold ? that being made stronger by faith it selfe , we may attayne to vnderstand that which we beleeue , now not men , but GOD himselfe confirming and lightening our mindes inwardly , &c.

None can be ignorant y y In his ● . Booke of Baptisme , against the ●onatis●s . Chap. ● . that the holy Canonicall Scripture , ( as well of the old as of the new Testament ) is contayned within her certayne limits , and that it is so preferred before all later writings of Bishops , that whatsoeuer is certaine to be written in it , can not in any wise be doubted or disputed whether it be true or right . ☞ But the writings of Bishops ( which haue By this distinction betweene the certayney of holy Scripture , and the vncertaynty of all other writings , he proues ( by good consequence ) that the visible Church may erre . bene written , or which are now written after the Canon is confirmed ) may be lawfully reprehended , both by a more wise speach of some man , which perhaps is more skilfull in that matter , and also by a more graue authority , and more learned prudence of other Bishops ; and by Councels , if perhaps any thing in them haue strayed from the trueth . And euen Councels themselues , which are gathered in any Region or Prouince , must ( without all doubt ) giue place to the authority of generall Councels , which are gathered out of the vniuersall Christian world : And oftentimes the former generall Councels themselues may be corrected by the later , when ( in any try all of matters ) that is opened , which was shut , and that knowne , which was hidden , z z Nothing is hid from the holy Ghost : therfore the holy Ghost is not assistant to those general Councels which may be corrected . without any swelling of sacrilegious pride , without any stiffe-necke of puffing arrogancy , without any contention of cankred enuy ; with holy humility , with Catholike peace , with Christian charity , &c. ( But for this matter , I haue written at large , in my booke of the vnity of the Church . )

Lay.

Vndoubtedly , these things from thée are most effectuall to proue the Church of Rome to erre , in affirming that she cannot erre ; But yet , for more confirmation thereof , we pray thée to deliuer vnto vs thy iudgement also , touching a principall matter of the Christian faith , now in controuersy betwéene vs , to wit , concerning the presence of Christ in the blessed Sacrament of his Body and Blood . But before we procéede in that matter , we will craue a few words from Gregory the great , ( sometime Bishop of Rome ) touching the vniuersall supremacy of the Pope of Rome ; for we take his vniuersall authority to be the onely cause , that Romes errours haue bene so much scattered and dispersed abroad into euery Christian nation . And because they hold now in Rome , that the Bishop of Rome cannot erre , we thinke , the best proofe against them therein , is , to bring the Bishop of Rome , against the Bishop of Rome .

Speake , diuine Gregory : what sayest thou to him that is called by the name of Vniuersall Bishop ?

Gregory .

( My sonne , ) If any one in the Church snatch to himselfe that name , a a In his Register the 4. Booke , Epistle . 32. then ( by the iudgement of all good men ) when he falls which is called Vniuersall , the vniuersall Church falleth from her state ; which God forbid . But farre be that name of Blasphemy from Christian hearts , by which the honour of al Priests is taken away , while it is foolishly arrogated by one to himselfe , &c. b b In his 6. Booke , and 〈◊〉 . Epistle . I speake it boldly , whosoeuer cals himselfe vniuersall Priest , or desires to be so called , by the same pride of his , he forerunneth Antichrist : for by pride hee preferreth himselfe before others , and by the same pride he is led into errour , &c.

Lay.

Verily , hadst not thou thy selfe bene Bishop of Rome , the Church of Rome could hardly brooke these words of thine : for here thou doest not onely call this name , A name of Blasphemy , but ( contrary to their opinion , touching the immutable doctrine of the visible Church ) thou doest also affirme , that ( by the iudgement of all good men ) when he which is called Vniuersall , falls into errour , then the vniuersall Church falls from her state also .

But yet thou séemest here to speake somewhat doubtfull , in discommending him onely , that doeth arrogate to himselfe this vniuersall authority : It may be , that thou doost allow the Bishop of Rome to consent vnto it , and so to take it , being offered by others .

Gregory .

( My sonne ) c c In his 4. Booke , and 36. Epistle . This name of Vniuersal , was by the Calcedon Councell offered to one Bishop of the Apostolike seat , in which I serue , ( God disposing ) but none of my predecessours consented at any time to vse this so prophane a name .

Lay.

Why would they not consent to it ?

Greg.

Truely , because if one be called d d In his 39. Epistle , the vniuersal Patriark , the name of Patriarks is taken from the rest : But away with that , &c. To consent to that wicked name , is nothing else , but to destroy faith , &c. e e In his ● . Booke , and 69. Epistle . One to be Vniuersal Bishop , is to the iniury & renting of the whole Church , and as we haue sayd , to the contempt of all Bishops ; for if one be vniuersal , as he thinketh , it remayneth that the rest are not Bishops , &c.

Lay.

But if the Church of Rome permit this matter to be lawfull , which thou doost so much gainesay , doth any euill then come thereby ? Our Lord prayed for the faith of S. Peter , ( and so consequently for the faith of all his sucessours , according to the opinion of the aduersary * * In their Rhemish notes vpon the 28 of S. Luke , verse , 31. ) that it should neuer fayle . But if any Bishop of Rome may proue a false Christian , and liue so lewdly , that he may dye a Reprobate , then vndoubtedly , euery Bishop of Rome is not the true successour of S. Peter , vnlesse a true faith may contradict in maners the things which it professeth in words : for it was a true faith in S. Peter , which our Lord prayed for , to continue in his Church , and not a vaine fayth . And if it be true , that the Bishop of Rome may erre , as he is man , but not possible , as he is Pope , that is to say , although in person he may erre in his priuate doctrine and maners , yet not possible to erre iudicially or definitiuely , then could it not be preiudiciall to the Church , although Antichrist himselfe were Bishop of Rome , * * See S. Chrisost. vpon the ● to the Th●ssa . and S. Barna●d in h●s 123. Epistle . and Vniuersall Bishop . But according to diuine reason , this séemes not agréeable to trueth .

Gregory .

My sonne , If this be permitted to be lawfully spoken , f f In his 4. Booke , and 36. Epistle . the honor of all Patriarchies is denied ; and perhaps when he pe●isheth in errour , which is called vniuers●ll , then no Bishop is found to haue remayned in the state of trueth , &c. I say therefore , the vniuersall Church g g In his 6. Booke , and Epi●tle 24. falleth to ruine , if one Vniuersall fall ; But farre be this vanity and foolishness● from my eares , &c. * A true faith doth not contradict in maners , the things which it professeth in words * : for which Hom. 29 in Eu●ng . Tit. 1. cause it was sayd of certayn false Christians , by S. Paul * , that they confessed God in words , but denied him in deeds : & by S. Iohn * , that whosoeuer ( sayth he ) knoweth ● . Iohn . 2. God , and keepeth not his commaundements , is a Lyar . Which being so , we must examine the trueth of our faith , by consideration of our life : for then , & not otherwise , are we true Christians , if we fulfill in works , that whereof we haue made promise in words , &c.

Lay.

Would to God , thy successours had bene of the same mind herein , as thou and thy predecessours were ; for then the Church vniuersally could neuer haue bene so much diuided as it hath bene ; for most true it is ( according to thy speach ) that within lesse time then this 200. yéeres past , hardly was there a Bishop to be found remayning in that sincere and pure doctrine , taught in the Primitiue Church , but being reuolted and departed from that sound doctrine , they all from the highest to the lowest , taught lyes in hypocrisie , ( euen as Saint Paul prophested of them ) forbidding to marry , h h 1. Tim. 4 , 1 , 2 , 3. and commaunding to abstayne from meates lawfully to be eaten , with other such like errours , and deceyueable doctrines . But the principall cause of such vniuersall euils , thou hast playnely declared to procéede from the pride of him called vniuersall Bishop : which man wée take to be no better then Antichrist himselfe : for ( according to S. Paul ) i i 2. Thesse . 2. 4. he sits hypocritically in the Temple of God , in word , The seruant of seruants , but in déede , extolling himselfe aboue all power on earth : for by vsurped authority he séekes not onely to be supreme head ouer all Bishops , but ouer all Chr●stian Kings also ; which loftynesse was ney●her in thée , nor in thy predecessours , and that thou doost make most manifest , not onely by these playne speaches here vttered , but elsewhere also , k k In hi● 38. Epistle , Chap. 82. with which we restfully satisfied herein .

And so we will conclude this first part , with a few words taken from our late Minister ( but now an Apos●ata ) Theophilus Higgons * * Written since hi● re●o●t , in his first Motiue , Page 64. ; because they containe a truth ( touching this poynt ) contrary to himself ; as thus :

It was a tyranny in Mezentius ( sayth he ) to bynd liuing men vnto dead carkeyses . But the wisdome of God doth assure me , ( and me also ) that he will not tye the lyuing body of his Church , vnto the dead and putrified members thereof .

The end of the first part .

The second part , treating of the Sacrament of the Blessed Body and Blood of our LORD and Sauiour Iesus Christ .

NOw , diuine Augustine , let vs go forward in that principall poynt , touching the holy Sacrament : let vs certaynely know thy mind , whether Christ be there , after a spirituall maner , onely for the faithfull to eate , and drinke , or after a corporal and carnall maner , as foode both for the worthy and vnworthy receyuer .

We find in holy Scripture , that our Sauiour called l l Iohn . 6. 35. and 10. 7. and 15. 1. himselfe Bread , called himselfe a Doore , called himselfe a Vine : These things in a spiritual sence , we know to be truely and properly spoken : yet according to the letter , we take them figuratiuely to be spoken . But wée would gladly vnderstand from thée , what our Sauiour meant , when he called Bread his body , m m Mat. 26. 26. and also what he meant , when he sayd , Exceptye eate n n Iohn . 〈…〉 . the flesh of the Sonne of man , and drinke his blood , ye haue no life in you , &c. Whether these speaches ( according to the letter ) were figuratiue or proper ?

Aug.

( My sonne ) Our Lord doubted not to say , This is my body , o o Against Adamantus , Chap. 12 when he gaue the signe of his Body , &c. p p Vpon the 3. Psal. Christ admitted Iudas to that Banket , in which he did deliuer to his disciples , the figure of his Body , &c. ( Note this also ) If it be a speach of commaundement , eyther forbidding a mischieuous deed , or a hainous fact , q q In his ● . Booke of Christian doctrine , Chap. 16. or commaunding a profitable thing , or a good deed , it is not figuratiue : But if it seeme to commaund a wicked deed , and a naughty fact , or to forbid a profitable thing or a good deed , it is figuratiue . Vnlesse ye shall eate ( sayth he ) the flesh of the Sonne of man , and drinke his blood , ye shall not haue life in you , &c. He doth seeme to commaund a hainous or wicked deed . It is a figure therefore , commaunding vs to communicate with the passion of our Lord , and sweetely and profitably to lay vp in memory , that his flesh was crucifyed and wounded for vs , &c. r r Vpon the 98. Psalm. The words which I haue spoken vnto you , ( sayth Christ ) is spirit and life . s s Iohn . 6. 63. Vnderstand spiritually , that which I haue spoken vnto you : Ye shall not eate this Body which ye see , neyther shall ye drinke that blood which they shall sheade that crucify me : I haue commended vnto you a certayne Sacrament , which being spiritually vnderstood , shall giue you life , &c. t t ●n his 2● , ●reati● vpon S. Iohn . He himselfe doth expound , how that may be done , which he spake of , & what it is to eate his Body , and drinke his blood . He which eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood , ( sayth he ) dwelleth in me , u u Iohn . 6. 56. & I●n him : This it is then to eate that meate , and drinke that blood , to dwell in Christ , and to haue Christ dwelling in him . And by this , he that dwelleth not in Christ , and in whom Christ doth not dwell , without doubt , hee neither eates his flesh , nor drinkes his blood , spiritually , although carnally and visibly , hee presse with his teeth , the Sacrament of his body and blood ; but rather hee doth eate and drinke the Sacrament of so great a thing to his owne Iudgement , because hee presumes to come vncleane to the Sacraments of Christ , which no man receyues worthily , but hee which is cleane , of whom it is sayd , x x Mat. ● . 8. Blessed are the pure in heart , for they shall see God , &c.

Lay.

Then it séemes by thée , ( contrary to the doctrine of the Church of Rome ) that the presence of Christ in the Sacrament , is in such a spirituall maner , that although the wicked may eate and drinke the same Sacrament vnworthily , ( according to S. Paul ) y y 1. Cor. 11. 27. yet they cannot by any meanes eate and drinke Christ himselfe , the matter and substance thereof . Whereby thou doost declare this thing to be an vnspeakeable mystery , onely for the faithfull to vnderstand ; for it séemes here also by thée , that none can receiue the Body of Christ , but onely the liuely members of Christ , that dwell in him ; so that as they dwell in Christ , Christ dwelleth in them : but this is not according to Transsubstantiation . Therefore , to satisfie our weake brethren , speake yet more playne , if thou canst ( reuerend Father ) and tell vs by some familiar example , whether any can haue true life , not eating and drinking that holy substance , and also whether there bée any cause or spiritual sicknesse in man , ( eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ ) to exclude him from that eternall life .

Aug.

My sonne , r r In his ●6 . Treatis vpon S. Iohn . He hath not that life , which doth not eate that Bread , and drinke that Blood . Indeed , men may haue a temporall life without that , but not at all the eternall . He therefore which doth not eate his flesh , nor drinke his blood , hath not life in himselfe , and he which eateth his flesh , and drinketh his blood , hath life . He answereth to both , because he sayd eternall .

It is not so in that meate which we receyue for the sustayning of this temporall life ; for he which shal not receyue it , shall not liue : yet for all that , he shall not liue alwayes , which doth receyue it : for it may come to passe , that many which haue taken that meate , may dye by old age , or by a disease , or by some other cause . But in this meate and drinke , ( that is to say , the Body and Blood of our Lord ) it is not so : for both he which doth not receiue it , hath not life , and he which doth receyue it , hath life , and this likewise eternall . Therefore he would haue this bread and drinke , to be vnderstood the society of the body , and his members , a a Iohn . 14. 20. and 17. 21 , 22 , 23. which is the holy Church , his Saints and faythfull , &c. The Sacrament of this thing ( that is to say , of the vnity of the Body & Blood of Christ ) is prepared on the Lords Table , in some place dayly , in some place at certayne times , and is receyued from the Lords Table , vnto some to life , vnto some to destruction . But the thing it selfe ( to which the Sacrament doth belong ) is to euery man to life , to no man to destruction , whosoeuer shall be partaker of it , &c.

Lay.

Here thou art most playne indéed , that the wicked cannot eate and drinke Christ Iesus , the Bread of life . And by this also , we finde , that thou doost acknowledge , according to S. Paul b b 1. Cor. 10. 3 , 4 that the faithful Iewes did eate and drinke the same spirituall substance which we do , ( but in their Sacraments , Christ to come ; in ours , Christ is come , the same spirituall vertue in both ; ) otherwise ( as thou doost affirme ) they could not haue entred into eternall life .

Aug.

( True , my sonne , ) c c In his Booke of the profit of repentance , Chap. 1. Whosoeuer in Manna vnderstood Christ , did eate the same spirituall food which we do , &c. To the beleeuer it was neyther this nor that meate and drinke , which belongs to the hungry and thirsty , but to the beleeuer , the same which is now : for then , Christ to come , now , Christ is come : to come , and is come , are diuers words , yet the same Christ , &c.

Lay.

What other difference is there betwéene their Sacramen●s and ours , besides Christ to come , and Christ is come ?

Aug.

d d In his 26. T●eatis vpon S. Iohn . In signes they are diuers , but in the thing signifyed , they are alike , &c. They did all drinke the same spirituall drinke , but in the visible appearance , they one thing , we another , but the same in spirituall vertue , which that signifyed , &c.

Hold firmely ( my sonne ) and make no doubt thereof , e e In his Booke to Peter the Deacon , Chap. 18. 19. the same onely begotten Sonne , the word made flesh , to haue offered himselfe for vs , a sweete smelling sauour to God , f f Ephe. 5. 2 A sacrifice and Hoste , to whom , with the Father and the holy Ghost , beasts were sacrificed in the time of the old Testament , by the Patriarks , Prophets , & Priests : and to whom now ( that is , in the time of the new Testament ) with the Father and the holy Ghost , ( with whom he is equall in diuinity ) the holy Catholike Church through the vniuersall world , ceaseth not in fayth and loue , to offer the sacrifice of Bread and wyne ; for in those carnall oblations , there was a figuration of the flesh of Christ , which for our sinnes , he without sinne was to offer , and of the Blood , which he was to sheade for the remission of our sinnes . But in this sacrifice , there is a thankes-giuing , and also a remembrance of the flesh of Christ , which he did offer for vs , and of the blood which the same God did shead for vs , &c. g g In his 20 Booke against 〈◊〉 , Chap. 2● . Before the comming of Christ , the flesh and blood of this Sacrifice , was promised by oblations of similitudes : in the Passion of Christ , it was deliuered in the trueth it selfe : After the Ascension of Christ , it is celebrated by a Sacrament of remembrance , &c.

Lay.

We note here from thée , one thing well worth the nothing , against our aduersaries , that is , if Christ be really contayned in the Sacrifice of their Masse , then Christ , the second person in Trinity , is offered to himselfe the second person in Trinity . But we assure our selues , that it cannot stand with thy grauity , to allow of such absurdity . Thou doost here call this 〈◊〉 , The sacrifice of Bread & Wine , as it is indéed ; for we find in holy Scripture , that the heauen must receyue or contayne Christ , vntill his second comming : h h Acts. ● 21. and therefore we hold him not to be in diuers places at one time , as in heauen aboue , and in the bread and wine beneath : but as thou hast fully resolued vs , that the reprobate can neyther eate nor drinke Christ ; and also , that the faithfull Iewes did both eate and drinke the same spirituall foode which we do , euen Christ himselfe , the spirituall Rocke that followed them ; i i 1. Cor. 10. 4. so we pray thée to resolue vs also , if Christ ( as he is man ) may be in diuers places at once ; if not , then how we may hold him here on earth , he being onely in heauen .

Aug.

My sonne , k k In his 30 Treatis vp on S Iohn . Christ being absent , is also present ; vnlesse he were present , we could not hold him ; but because it is true which he sayd , l l Math. 28. 20. Behold , I am with you to the end of the world ; both he went away , and is here also , he returned , and did not forsake vs .

Lay.

But how did he both go away , and also remayne ? Is he present here both according to his Maiesty , as he is God , and also according to that substance which he tooke of the blessed Virgin his mother ? did not he carry his Body into heauen , and there sits at the right hand of God ?

Aug.

He carried his Body into heauen , but he took not his Maiesty away from the world , &c. The poore ye shall alwayes haue with you , ( sayth he ) m m Iohn 1● . 8. but me ye shall not haue alwayes , &c. He spake of the presence of his Body : for according to his Maiesty , according to his prouidence , according to his infallible and inuisible grace , it is fulfilled which he sayd , ( Behold , I am with you to the worlds end . ) But according to the flesh which the word did take , according to that which was borne of the Virgin , according to that which was apprehended by the Iewes , which was nayled vpon the Tree , and taken downe from the Crosse , lapped in linnen clothes , and put in the Sepulchre , which was manifested in the resurrection ; Ye shall not haue me alwayes with you . Why ? because , according to the presence of his Body , being conuersant with his Disciples fourty dayes , in their sight he ascended into heauen , and is not here ; for there he sits at the right hand of his Father ; and is here : for the presence of his Maiesty did not depart . After another sort , according to the presence of his Maiesty , we haue Christ alwayes ; according to the presence of his flesh , it is truely sayd to his Disciples , But me ye shall not haue alwayes : for according to the presence of the flesh , the Church had him but a few dayes ; but now she holds him by fayth , &c.

Lay.

Notwithstanding all this playne speach of thine , yet some do absurdly affirme , that thou doost here but deny a Visible presence onely ; and that thou doost great ( according to Transsubstantion ) a corporall presence of Christ in the Sacrament , after an inuisible maner : how shall we ( from thée ) answere to that absurd cauelling ?

Aug.

( My sonne ) His diuinity truely is alwayes with vs , n n In his 60 Sermon vpon S. Iohn . but vnlesse he were absent corporally , we should alwayes carnally see his body , &c. o o In his 2. Sermon vpon the birth of our ●ord . The Word being made flesh , it is euident , God and man , two , to be in one flesh ; sometime man speaketh to the Father , sometime God ; sometime visible from his mother , sometime inuisible from his Father , &c.

Lay.

But God is omnipotent , and therefore by his omnipotent power , he may , ( as some thinke ) be both in heauen , and also corporally inuisible in the Sacrament , and occupy no place ; for he may ( say they ) take away spaces of places from Bodyes , and yet the Bodyes may remayne still : and so he himselfe both God and man , to be both here and there at one time .

Aug.

( My sonne , ) God is in such wise omnipotent , p p In his 284. s●ntence . that he neuer pulls in sunder the institutions of his owne order , &c. q q In his ●● . Booke against Faustus . Chap. 1● . According to a corporall presence , Christ could not be at one time , both in the Sunne and Moone , and vpon the Crosse , &c. r r In his 57. 〈◊〉 to Da●danus . We must take heede , that we do not so build vp the diuinity of the man , that we take away the trueth of the Body , &c. Take away the spaces of places from Bodyes , and they are no where , and because they be no where , they are not at all . Take away Bodyes from the qualities of Bodyes , and there shall not be any place where they may be : and therefore of necessity it must be , that they haue no being , &c. If the substance of a body ( how little or great soeuer it be ) be vtterly taken away , there shal be no place where his qualityes may be , &c.

Lay.

Thou hast now fully resolued vs in this last poynt , touching Christ to be onely in heauen ; and it doth euidently appeare also by these few wordes from thée , that the formes and accidents of Bread and wine , cannot remayne without their substances ( as some do vainly imagine ) but that it is truely Bread which we sée in the blessed Sacrament , euen as our eyes do declare vnto vs .

Aug.

( Verily , my sonne ) s s In his Sermon to the children , cited by Bede vpon the 1. and 10. to the Cor. That which ye see , is Bread and the cup , which also the eyes do declare vnto vs : But as touching that which your fayth requireth to be instructed in , the bread is the Body of Christ , and the Cup is the blood .

Lay.

But Christ being now in heauen onely , ( as thou doost affirme ) how is that Bread his Body , or the cup , or that which is in the cup , how is it his blood ?

Aug.

These things ( my sonne ) are therefore called Sacraments , because in them , one thing is seene , another thing is vnderstood ; That which is seene , hath a corporall forme ; That which is vnderstood , hath a spirituall profit : Therefore if thou wilt vnderstand the Body of Christ , heare the Apostle , saying , t t 1. Cor. 1● . 27. Ye are the body of Christ , &c.

Lay.

We do so , diuine Augustine : for this matter , we both heare him and note him , not in that place onely , but in diuers other places also ; u u Rom. 1● . 5. 1. Cor. 6 , 15. & 10. 16 , 17. Ephe. 1. 22 , 23 , ●nd ● . 4. &c. to 17. & 5. 2● . &c. to the end . and therefore the faithfull cannot mistake thée herein , thou agréeing so well with holy Scripture . But wherefore doost thou write in some place , that Christ did carry himselfe in his owne hands , when he did deliuer to his disciples , the Sacrament of his Body and Blood ? And againe , though Iudas receyued it vnworthily , yet thou sayest also , that the same Sacrament was to him likewise , the Body and Blood of Christ . Thou séemest thereby to contradict thy former speaches here vttered touching the same thing : declare vnto vs therefore the cause , why thou diddest write after that maner .

Aug.

( My sonne ) If Sacraments x x In his 23. Epistle to Boniface . had not some similitude o● likenesse of these things whereof they be Sacraments , they should not be Sacraments at all ; and from this similitude , most commonly they receyue the names also of the same things : so that after a certayne maner , the Sacrament of the Body of Christ , is the Body of Christ : The Sacrament of the Blood of Christ is the Blood of Christ , &c. ( And therefore , as I sayd before , * * Pag● 18. at the letter ●o . ) Our Lord doubted not to say , This is my Body , when he gaue the signe ( or Sacrament ) of his Body , &c.

Lay.

Undoubtedly , thou hast layd open this matter also very playne ; for indéed , after a certayne maner , both Christ carryed himselfe in his owne hands , and also Iudas did eate and drinke the Body and Blood of our Lord . But doost thou allow it lawfull for any man to follow the literall sence in a contrary respect , that is , with a carnall seruitude to take the signes for the things signified by them , and so to reuerence the Sacrament , as the thing it selfe ?

Aug.

( My sonne ) The Lord himselfe , y y In his ● . Booke of Christian doctrine . Chap. 9. and the Apostolical discipline , hath deliuered some few signes for many , and the same most easie to be done , and most reuerend to be vnderstood , and most pure in obseruation ; as is the Sacrament of Baptisme , and the Celebration of the Body & Blood of our Lord ; which things , euery one ( being instructed when he receyueth ) acknowledgeth to what they are referred , that he reuerence them not with a carnall seruitude , but rather with a spirituall liberty , &c. But as to follow the letter , and to take the signes for the things which are signified by them , comes of seruile infirmity ; so likewise , to interpret the signes vnprofitable , proceedes from the euill of wandring errour , &c.

Lay.

These last words of thine ( most reuerend Father ) are inuincible against the doctrine herein of our Romish aduersaryes : for if hereafter they shall boast , that thou doost agrée with their Transsubstantiation , & carnall aderation in the Masse ; we will then demaund of them , what other thing it is to follow the letter , & to take the signes for the things signified , ( and so to reuerence them with a carnall seruitude ) but the selfe-same carnall doctrine of Transsubstantiation ? And therefore we will now rest fully satisfied with these thy former speaches , as being from thee a sufficient witnesse herein against them . And the better to approue this thy doctrine to be the doctrine of the Church , aboue a thousand yeeres since , we will ioyne here with thee , a witnesse or two more from Antiquity , that by the mouth of two or three witnesses , z z 2. Cor. 13. 1. the Trueth may be confirmed .

Speake , diuine Hierome , what is thy true opinion , touching this matter now in controuersie , about the mystery or Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord . Speake briefly ( learned Father : ) yet let it be so effectuall , that thy words may playnely declare thy meaning .

Hierome .

( My sonne , ) a a Vpon the 147. Psalm. I thinke the Gospell the Body of Iesus , &c. And where he sayth , He which shall not eate my flesh , and drinke my blood , &c. b b Iohn . 6. 5● . although it may be vnderstood in the mystery , yet more truely the word of the Scripture is the Body and Blood of Christ . The doctrine is diuine . c c Looke the 26. Homily of S. Aug. and against Maximil . Chap. 22. and note how he doth agree with this of ● Hierom If at any time we go to the mystery , he which is faithfull , vnderstandeth it ; If he fall into a spot , he is in danger ; If at any time we heare the word of GOD , both the word of God , and the flesh of Christ , and his blood , is powred into our eares , and we think an other thing , to what great danger we runne into , &c.

Lay.

Verily thou hast here ( according to our desire ) briefly spoken to the purpose indéed , and it may well suffice for a testimony from thée , against that strange doctrine of Transsubstantiation ; for according thereunto , we know not how the holy Scripture can be so truely the Body and Blood of Christ , as the holy mystery : and therefore , because yea or nay is a sufficient answere , we will content our selues , onely with this thy briefe affirmation herein , and so procéede to the third witnesse .

Speake , diuine Theodoret , what sayest thou , touching the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of our Lord ?

Theodoret.

( My sonne ) d d All this from Theo. is to be found in his 1. and 2. Dialogue . Thou knowest that God called his Body , Bread . e e Iohn . 6. 51.

Lay.

I know it .

Theodoret.

Moreouer , in another place , he named wheate , flesh . f f Math. 〈…〉 .

Lay.

I know this to be true also .

Theo.

In the tradition of mysteries , he called bread his Body , and that which powred and commixed in the cup , Blood .

Lay.

So he did call these things indéed ; but did he rightly call them so , as being his naturall Body and Blood ? or did he but change the names ?

Theo.

( My sonne ) That which is a body according to nature , shall rightly be called a body , and likewise blood , &c. But our Sauiour changed the names verily , and imposed to the body , that name which rightly belonged to the signe and Symbole , but to the signe he imposed that name which belonged to the body ; so when he had named himselfe a Vyne , he called that Blood , which was the signe .

Lay.

But the nature of the Bread and wine still remayning , what is the cause of the alteration of the names ?

Theo.

To those that are admitted to the diuine mysteryes , the institution is manifest ; for he would not haue them which are partakers of the diuine mysteries , to regard the nature of those things which are seene , but by the changing of the names , to beleeue the alteration which is made by grace ; for he which named that , Wheat and Bread , which by nature is a body , and againe , named himselfe a Vine , he hath honored the Symboles and signes which are seene , with the name of the Body and Blood , not verily changing nature , but adding grace to nature , &c.

Lay.

What sayst thou then to those Heretiks , which hold , that as those signes of the Body and Blood of our Lord , were one kind of things before the inuecation of the Priest ( or minister ) and after are changed and made other things , euen so the Body of our Lord also , after the resurrection , is changed into the diuine substance ?

Theo.

( My sonne ) g g In his ●… . Dialoges They are taken in their owne snares ; for neyther do the misticall signes depart from their owne nature after sanctification , but they remayne in the former substance , and figure , and forme , &c. Compare the signe with the trueth , & thou shalt vnderstand the similitude ; for the figure ought to be like the trueth : for truely , that body hath the first forme , and figure , and circumscription , and ( that I may say at once ) the substance of a body , but it was made immortall after the resurrection , &c.

Lay.

Most true it is ( graue Father ) Christ hath still the true substance of a Body , and therefore ( the signe and the thing signified being alike ) those Heretickes , whosoeuer they be , that séeme to proue the forme of Bread in the Sacrament , to be there without the substance of Bread , do thereby séeme to proue also , Christ to a haue a fantasticall Body , that is , a Body in shew , without the substance of a body . But thou doost here most playnely confute that palpable absurdity , & therein thou art agréeable to the true doctrine of the Primitiue Church ; for what Christian liuing a thousand yeres since , or vpwards , did euer affirme such a reall presence in the Sacrament , that thereby Christ God and man , is to be swallowed into the bodyes of many damned creatures ? We find many proofes from Antiquity to the contrary , as partly hath bene noted already ; and yet for more witnesse thereof , we note S. Ambrose also , who sayth playnely , touching this sacred Bread , ( euen Christ himselfe ) that it is not bread which goeth into the body , h h In his ● . Booke of Sacraments , Chap. 4. but the Bread of eternall life , which strengthneth the substance of our soules , &c. He sayth not ( as some peruersly misconster him ) Non transi●e in corpus per nutritionem : i i Bellarm. vpon the Eucharist , the 2. Booke & 14. Chap. it passeth not through the body , by nourishment ; but , Non vadit in corpus : it goeth not into the body , &c. Who then can mistake him here , but he that wilfully makes himselfe ignorant , euen he which by such vndirect dealing , peruerts thy words also , saying , k k Bellarm. in the same Booke , Chap. 27. Where thou doost affirme the Bread and wine to remayne after sanctification ( both in substance , nature , figure and forme as they were before , ) thou doost thereby meane , onely the sensible accidents and visible formes do so remayne , but the substance to be changed ? But if such weake defending of errours be allowed for good and lawfull , in vayne then it is to bring any testimony from antiquity against Heretikes . But we hope , that such peruerse answeres from the peruerter , may proue in good time , a good motiue for the peruerted , to looke about him betimes , and not both to liue and dye a childe in vnderstanding ; for ignorance cannot excuse those that wilfully refuse to walke by the light of holy Scripture . The word of God is a lanterne vnto my feete , and a light vnto my paths , ( saith the Prophet Dauid * * Psalm. 119. ) It is as a light shining in a dark place ( sayth S. Peter . * * 2. Pet. 1. ) By which we are giuen to vnderstand , that as the Sunne giues light to the corporall eye , so doth the holy Scripture giue light to the spirituall eye . Whereupon it followes , that if neyther our aduersaryes nor our selues would wilfully become blind , ( and then trust to the leading of others ) we should soone all agrée in one outward profession : for who is he that can beleeue , contrary to that which he séeeth ? or where is that spirituall man , so contentious , as not to allow those Traditions and customes of the Church , which are not contrary to the expresse word of God ?

We grant from the Sacrament , ( according to that trueth which we finde in holy Scripture * * Iohn . 6. 63. ) the true eating & drinking of the flesh and blood of Christ , spiritually ; ( we say word for word , as Saint Basil said aboue a thousand yeeres since ; l l In his 141. Epistle . We eate his flesh , and drinke his blood , being made partakers of him by incarnation and sensible life of the word and wisdome : for he called all his mysticall conuersation in the flesh , flesh and blood , and made manifest that doctrine which depends of his life , actuall , naturall , and diuine , by which the soule is nourished , exercised , and trayned vp to the contemplation of heauenly things , &c. ) but we deny such a grosse eating and drinking therein , that thereby both the righteous and the vnrighteous are made partakers of Christ ; which doctrine is most manifest against the sacred Scripture : m m 1. Cor. 10. 21. we deny also such a grosse eating & drinking therein , that thereby Lay people must not communicate with the blessed cup of our Lord , fearing lest they should shead his prectous blood vpon their garments : or lest by the weakenesse of their stomackes , they should bring vp againe their Creator by belchings and vomitings ; which absurdity , the Church hath long since confuted , as witnesseth S. Aug. n n Against Faustus the 20 Booke , and Chap. 13. for indéed , according to the doctrine of her head Christ Iesus , so doth the true Church teach alwayes ; But neuer did the true Church teach , that our Sauiour Christ hath any reall being in the body of a wicked creature ; for Christ himselfe is most playne against that vayne doctrine . And briefly to proue that to be true , we will now set aside all other witnesses and proofes whatsoeuer , and humbly beséech the author of this blessed Sacrament ( euen Iesus Christ himselfe ) to resolue vs herein .

Speake , holy Lambe of God , thou that art the onely Sauiour of the world , & speake so , we most humbly beséech thée , that thy words herein may proue a swéete sauour of life , to the small remnant of thy holy Church in this corrupt age . Teach vs ( swéete Lord ) whether any can haue true life , without eating and drinking that blessed flesh and blood of thine ; and also , whether any can misse of that true life , eating and drinking the same blessed foode .

Christ .

( My sonne ) o o Iohn . 6. 48. to 36. I am that Bread of life : your fathers did eate Manna in the wildernesse , and are dead : This is that bread which came downe from heauen , that he which eateth of it , should not dye . I am that liuing bread which came downe from heauen : If any man eate of this bread , he shall liue for euer : and the bread that I will giue , is my flesh , which I will giue for the life of the world , &c. Verily verily I say vnto you , except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man , and drinke his blood , ye haue no life in you . Whosoeuer eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , hath eternall life , and I will rayse him vp at the last day : for my flesh is meate indeed , and my blood is drinke indeed .

Lay.

My Lord and God , these words of thine are profound , and to the spirituall man , spirit and life , although to the carnall man , farre otherwise ; for notwithstanding thou hast commaunded vs all , not to adde any thing to thy sacred word , p p Deut. 〈◊〉 2 , and 12. 32. 〈◊〉 . 22. 18. yet these carnall-minded men can not vnderstand these thy comfortable speeches , vnlesse they adde thereunto some matter of their owne deuising , as namely , by adding a condition to the holy text , more then thou didst there expresse * * Bellarmine in his 〈…〉 . : as though there were a defect in thy word , by which all things are made perfit , and by which , at the last day , they shal● iudge both the quicke and the dead .

But full well do thy faithfull people , know by the direction of thy holy spirit , that thou giuest not thy selfe for foode to any reprobate and vnworthy creature ; for thou sayst here most playnely ; that whosoeuer eateth and drinketh thy flesh and blood , hath eternall life : and therefore , although the Sacrament thereof may be eaten and drunken , both by the worthy and vnworthy receiuer , ( as witnesseth thine Apostle Paul ) q q 1. Cor. 11. 27. yet that blessed foode it selfe cannot so be eaten and drunken : for the vertue thereof is , to giue life to all that eates and drinks it ; and this is thy promise which can neuer be broken .

But , most gracious Lord , forasmuch as there be yet many weake people , that cannot well vnderstand thée herein , without adding to these thy words , this word ( worthyly ) resolue them we ( humbly beséech thée ) whether it be so or not , that some professed Christians may eate and drinke this sacred banket of thine ( euen thy selfe ) vnworthily , and so dye in their sinnes , as the vnworthy and faithlesse Iewes did , notwithstanding they did eate Manna . Speake so vnto them , ( good Lord ) that they may both heare and vnderstand .

Christ .

( My sonne ) Let those weake people of little faith , marke well here , what I say vnto them :

Haue not I graciously giuen you warning by my sacred word , saying , ) r r Math. 16. ● . and 15. 9. Take heede , and beware of the leauen of the Pharises and Sadduces ? in vaine they worship me , teaching for doctrines , mens precepts . ( Haue not I taught you by mine Apostle Paul ) faith is by hearing , and hearing by the word of God ? * * Rom. 10. 1● . Iohn . 8. 4● . Mark . 1● . 24. He that is of God , heareth Gods wordes , &c. * * Iohn . 5. 39. Are ye not therfore deceiued , because ye know not the Scriptures , neyther the power of God ? * Search the Scriptures My sheepe heare my voyce , and I know them , Iohn 10. 27. and 12. 48. and 14. 6. Luke . ●1. 23. and they follow me . He that refuseth me , and receyueth not my words , hath one that iudgeth him : the word that I haue spoken , it shall iudge him in the last day . I am the Way , the Trueth , & the Life . No man commeth vnto the Father , but by me . * * Iohn . 6. 〈…〉 . He that is not with me , is against me : and he that gathereth not with me , scattereth . ( but ) * He that eateth my flesh , and drinketh my blood , dwelleth in me , and I in him . As that liuing Father hath sent me , so liue I by the Father , and he that eateth me , euen he shall liue by me .

( Note well here what I say , I speake not one thing and meane an other ; I make not my promise so absolutely , and meane it but conditionally ; I say not , he that eateth me worthily , because no vnworthy creature that shall dye in his sinne , can eate me ; And to make that most playne vnto you , I say againe as I haue sayd already ) This is that bread which came downe from heauen , not as your fathers haue eaten Manna , and are dead , he that eateth of this bread , shall liue for euer , &c.

Lay.

For this thy playne declaration , all prayse be giuen vnto thée , O Lord : for hereby , all may discerne most clearely , that thou doost not commit thy selfe to vnfaithfull creatures , and to be foode for the reprobate , as Iudas , and such like : We therefore most humbly pray thée to open the eyes of these blinde weakelings , which ( by too much establishing the doctrines of men ) go about to contradict thée herein , and so inspire their heartes with the grace of thy holy spirit , that they may thereby discerne the onely cause of their great blindnesse ; ( But the same cause being by thy gracious help taken away , they shall then clearely sée to séeke and find , euen according to thy diuine direction . s s Math. ● . 7. Let them sée ( O Lord ) that their Church of Rome doth yet erre , and will erre still , vntill shée acknowledge her owne weakenesse that she may erre .

But so aboundant is thy goodnesse & mercy towards repentant sinners , that if she would in due time repent her former errours , with that vayne and presumptuous opinion touching her supposed purity , in her owne doctrine generally ; no doubt , thou wouldst not onely pardon all her erronious doctrines , and superstitious cerimonies ; but also restore her to her first dignity and commendation , and cause all her good and laudable Traditions and Customes , ( which now , in respect of her wilfull blindnesse in some poynts , are little or nothing regarded by a great number ) to be as highly estéemed , and as duely obserued , as euer heretofore they haue bene : for thy eternall wisedome doth more respect the good and faithfull intent of the dooer , then the déed done , whatsoeuer it be ; because whatsoeuer is not of true faith , ( séeme it neuer so holy in the sight of man ) is no better then sinne , in thy infallible Iudgement * * Rom. 14. 23. .

In consideration whereof , we most humbly beséech thée also to encrease in vs ( Protestants ) true and liuely faith , which alwayes worketh by loue , that we may be all in generall more zealous in thy seruice , then hither to we haue bene ; for we here acknowledge before thée that knowest the secrets of all hearts , who also hereafter shalt be our Iudge , the knowledge without true zeale , is more vnprofitable in thy sight , then zeale without knowledge : t t Math. 21. 28. to 32. Luke . 12. 47 , 48. Iohn 9. 41. Actes . 10. 1. 10 5. Rom. ● . 〈◊〉 . 5. 6. therefore as we professe thée in words , so ( good Lord ) let vs expresse thée in workes , that we may not be reckoned in the number of those foolish men , that build vpon sand , that is , those that heare thy words , and do them not . u u Math. ● . 26. 27.

We professe before thy diuine Maiesty , that none can be saued , but those that haue a faith working by loue , x x Gala. ● . 6. 1. Tim. 1. ● . Tit. 3. 8. Iames. 2. 20. other faiths we hold as dead , and vayne , in respect of Iustification , but that faith onely which worketh by loue , we hold to iustifie without the workes of the law , euen as thine holy Apostle hath taught vs . y y Rom. 3 ●8 .

Therefore , for the great loue in thée declared vnto vs , when thou didst suffer torments & death for our sinnes , we beséech thée ( swéete Iesus ) so to blesse the hearts of all true Christians , that they may all from hencefoorth both liue and dye in peace and vnity .

Behold , ( sayth thy Prophet Dauid * * Psalm. 1● . ) how good & how comely a thing it is , brethren to dwell euen together . It is like the precious oyntment vpon the head , that runneth downe vpon the beard , euen vnto Aarons beard , which went downe on the border of his garments : and as the dew of Hermon , which falleth vpon the Mountaynes of Zion : for there the Lord appoynted the blessing and life for euer .

Let thine heauenly blessing therefore so blesse the Vniuersall Church here on earth , that it may euen now ( without any more controuersies ) conclude a spirituall marriage as it were betwéene faith and workes , that so wée may all both truely glorifie thée in this world , & also be made partakers with thée of that euerlasting felicity in the next world , euen in that holy place of en●lesse ioy , which from the foundations of the world hath bene prepared for thine elect , z z Mar● , ●● . 24 , by thine heauenly Father , our onely God and Creator , to whom with thée our swéete Redéemer , and the holy Ghost our sanctifier , ( thrée persons , and one euerliuing God ) be ascribed all prayse , power , honor , dominion and glory , both now and for euermore . Amen .

FINIS .

Let no man deceiue himselfe : If any man among you seeme to be wise in this world , let him be a foole , that he may be wise : for the wisdome of this world is foolishnesse with God , &c.

1. Cor. 3. 18 , 19. Laus Deo , et pax Christianis . Glory be to God , and peace among Christians .