GOD blesse you Father Remigius , I hope you will this day yeeld great comfort to my distressed heart ; for I haue often heard , that you are both pro●undly learned , and charitably affected to all your Christian neighbours ; so as for your great learning you are very able , and for your rare charitie euer ready , to giue good counsell to such , as stand in neede of you : I therefore for Christs sake beseech you , to shew me the ready way to heauen .

To beleeue rightly and liue christianly , is Ma●. v 14● . Luc 13. v. 24. your very path-way to Heauen : but it is a straight and narrow gate , and few do finde the same .

Alas , my good father , then shall more be damned then saued , God forbid , it should be so .

That which God hath decreed , man cannot Mat. 20. ● ▪ 17. Luc. 〈◊〉 . v. 24. withstand . Many ( saith Christ , ) are called , but few are chosen . Striue to enter in at the straight gate ; for many will séeke to enter in , and shall not be able . Yet our most mercifull and iust God , will condemne none to eternall death ; but for their notorious sinnes , and iust deserts .

We may exclaime with holy Polycar●e , ô God , to what a world hast thou reserued vs ? &c. Now euery one can giue good words , both in the Pulpit and else where ; but badder life and wickeder dealing , was neuer more frequent in any towne or City . The Catholiques , for good life and meritorious actes , are the mirror of the Christian world .

Whom doe you call Catholikes ? I am a Catholique my selfe .

The Pope , his Cardinals , his Monkes , his Fryers , his holy Nunnes , and all such as agree in faith and doctrine with the Church of Rome .

If you speake of Pope Formosus , Pope Iohn degraded him , and brought him to laicall state againe , after he had béene the Bishop of Portua . Hée further tooke him sworne , that hée neither should be Bishop again , not euer returne to the Citie of Rome . Howbeit , Pope Martin absolued him from his oath , and after a few yéeres , he did notonely come to Rome , but there was made the Pope . Pope Stephanus a cruell Ty●●nt . If you speake of Pope Stephanus the sixt ▪ he persecuted Pope Formosus euen after his death . He called a Councell , and disanulled all the decrées of Pope Formosus his predecessour . He caused his body to be brought into his Consistory , the papall induments to be taken away , a laicall habite to be put on she dead corps , two fingers of his right hand to be cut off ; and that done , forsooth , his body to be put againe into the graue . Meane you Pope Sergius the third ? he caused Pope Formosus ( who now had béen dead almost ten whole yéeres ) to be taken out of his tombe , and to be set in a chaire with pontificall attire vpon his backe ; that done , he commanded his head to be cut off , and to be cast into their●iuer Tyber . Meane you Pope Iohn the twelfth ? his father Albericus being a man of great power and might , enforced the Nobles to take an oath , that after the death of Pope Ag●pitus , they would promote his Pope Iohn a notorious who ▪ ● ▪ munger . sonne Octauianus to the Popedome : The oath was accomplished , and he was named Iohn . He was a great hunter , and a man of licencious life : he kept women openly to the notorious scandall of the Church , insomuch , that some of the Cardinals wrote to O●to then King of the Saxons , to come and besiege Rome , and so to afflict him for his sins . Which the Pope perceiuing , commanded the Cardinals nose to be cut off , that gaue that counsell ; and his hand , that wrote the letters Speake you of Pope Boniface the seuenth ? he was made Pope by the Romans after they Pope Bonifacea Church rob●● . had thr●t●ed Benedictus the sixt : who afterward not able to tarrie in the City , robbed S. Peters Church of all the ●●asure in it , and fled to Constantinople . Means you Pope Benedict the eight ? he was seene after his death , as it were corporally riding vpon a blacke horse ( the Diuell . ) he confessed that he was in great torment , & therefore desired Pope Ben●● an extortione● . some money to be giuen to the poore , because all that he had giuen the poore aforetime , was gotten by robbery and extortion . Meane you Pope Iohn the woman ? she Pope Iohn with child . belying her sexe , and clad in mans attire , was with great admiration of her sharpe wit and singular learning , chosen to be the Pope of Rome . But shortly after by the familiar helpe of her beloued companion , she brought forth the homely fruits of her Popedome . Meane you Pope Boniface the eight ? he made a constitution , in which he called Pope Boniface entred as a Fox , li●ed as a Wolfe , and died as a Dogge . himselfe both Lord spirituall & Lord temporal of the whole world : whereupon he required Philip the French King , to acknowledg that he held his Kingdom of him : which when the King scorned to doe , he gaue his Kingdome to him thatcouldget it . This Pope entred as a Foxe , reigned as a Pope ●ylu●ster promised ●omag● to the Deuil . Wolf , and died as Dog . What shal I say of your Monks or Fryers ? Pope Siluester the second was first a Monke , a Frenchman borne , Gilbe●●us by name : he promised homage to the Diuell , so long as he should accompli●h his desires : who being very ambitious , did so often expresse his desire to the Diuell , as he made homage to him . He was first made Archbishop of Rhemes ; then of Rauennes , at the last Pope of Rome : for the Diuell knowing his ambitious minde , brought him to honour by degrées . All this to be most true , these Popish writers of high estéeme euen in the Church of Rome ( viz. Geniblacensis , Marianus Scotus , Ba●●holemeus Carranza , Martinus Polonus , Philippus , Bergomensis , Bapt. Platina , & Palmerius , ) haue publishes it in printed books to the view of the whole world , which doubtlesse they would neuer haue done , if the truth it selfe had not enforced their pennes thereunte . For the holy life of your Iesuites and Iesuited br●●d , I will say nothing ; their deare bréethren the secular Priests , ha●● related that matter sufficiently , in many bookes late extant in print against them : they charge them with pride , ambition , couetousnesse , cozenage , theft , cruelty , murther , treason , and what not ? yea , of Frier Parsons , they giue this testimony in particular , viz. by Parsons platformes , secular Priests must depend vpon Blacwel , Robert parsons an holy Fryer . and Blackwel vpon Garnet , and Garnet vpon Parsons , & Parsons the Priests bastard vpon the Diuel . Read If th●● shalt read ●hi● Anatomy ▪ thou canst not but abho●●e ●a●e ●p●●a●● Popery . the Anatomy of Popish tiranny , and there then shalt find this truth , with great variety of like matter . I let passe , what Polidorus Virgilius , Abbas , Panormitanus . & Pope Pius himselfe , before called Aeneas Syluius , haue written of the filthy life of Popish Priests , Monkes , Friers , and Nunnes . Peruse the suruey of popery , and the triall of Aug. Epist. 119. the new religion ; and that done , the truth will shew it selfe herein : For , if S. Austin said truly that in his time all was full of humane superstitions , with the seruile burdens whereof men were so pressed , as the Iewes estate vnder their legall ceremonies was more tollerable , then the state of Christians : Truely may we say much more , A●●st ▪ contra Epist ●●●dam . of the last and worst daies .

S. Peter & S. Paul deliuered the Catholique saith to the Church of Rome ; and the succession from S. Peter and S. Paul , kept S. Augustine in the vnity of the Church . So writeth S. Austen of himselfe .

True it is first , that both S. Peter and S. Paul preached at Rome , and for the testimony of Christs Gospell were there put to death , both on one day , not both in one yeare ; the one beheaded , the other crucified : none well studied in the auncient fathers , & histories of the Church , will or can this deny : true it is secondly , that many Bishops of Rome were holy men , who constanly yéelded vp their liues ( as become holy martyrs , ) for the testification of the truth of Christs Gospell : true it is ●●irdly , that S. Austen saith of himselfe , that the succession of Priests from S. Peter , was one thing amongst many that kept him in the Church : true it is fourthly , that the mai●sty of the Roman Empire , together with the great liberality , which the Romans exhibited to the Martyrs in exile and otherwise afflicted , yéelded no small honour to the City and Church of Rome : and hereupon ( I will it not deny ) it came to passe , that the auncient councels had euer great respect to the dignity and excellency of Cities , in the distribution of Episcopall and Patriarchall seates : hereupon it likewise came , that the West and Occidentall Churches ( not so the East-churches ) did greatly reuerence the Church of Rome ; and many times to appease controu●●sies and dissentions , had recourse vnto it , as to the Mother-church and auncient nurse of the faith : which things S. Augustin beholding together with the succession , ( not barely of place or persons , but ) of Bishops , in faith , ●●ctrine , and holy conuersation , was confirmed in the vnity of the Church : for so as then , so now , nothing doth or can yéeld greater comfort or solace to a Christian heart , then to behold the lines of S. Aus●●● respected ●uccession , w●●ch was ●oy●●● with holy ●●f● and pure ●oct●i●● , the euill life of Ministe●s doth much hurt to the truth . Gods ministers to be agreable to their doctrine , and their doctrine to be consonant to the word of God : for , what man would not rather in any difficulty , haue recourse to that Minister and Preacher , whose life is agréeable to his doctrine , then vnto him , who though he preach pleasantly , yet liueth not accordingly ? None doubtlesse . For this respect said the holy Apostle to the Romans , that through their euill life , the word of God was blasphemed among the Gentiles : and for this respect likewise , are the Bere●ms highly commended in holy writ , in that they examined the Apostles doctrine by the liue and rule of Gods word : yea , for this respect doth the holy vessell of Rom. 2 v. 14. Act. 27 v. 10 11 〈◊〉 . Hebr. 31. v. 7. our Lord Iesus , very grauely admonish the Hebrwes , to consider the end of their conuersation who , haue preached Gods word vnto them : but for all this , no auncient councell , no holy father , no history Ecclesiasticall , did euer Note that the Bishop of Rome did neuer aledge for himselfe that he could not erre because hee kn●we no such prerogatiue in very deede . ascribe this supereminent prerogatiue to the Bishop of Rome , that he could no erre in his iudiciall and definitiue resolutions : neither euer was the Bishop of that Sea acknowledged , for the sole and onely iudge in controuersies of religion : this is to be so , one onely testimony of S. Cyprian will or at least may suffice : for S. Cyprian a very auncient father , a great learned Bishop , and a most blessed martyr , although he highly reuerenced the Church of Rome , for respects now related , and consequently the Cyp●● Epist ad Pompeum . Bishops thereof , yet was he so farre from acknowledging , the falssy now vsurped prerogatiue of the Bishop of Rome , that his faith could not faile , that he flatly reiected his opinion , contemned his definitiue sentence , and decided his iudiciall decrées , calling him blind buzzard , and arrogant Prelat . The like I might alledge cut of many famous papists ; Adrianus , Panormit : nus Alphon●us , Gersonus , Ockamus and others : but this ●onu●ceth , that neither S. Austin nor any auncient father in their time , nor the Bishop of Rome , did obiect against S. Cyprian , that the said Bishop could not erre .

This is a wonderment to me , that our Popes , Monkes , and Iesuites , haue beene so licentious and wicked liuers : but seeing so many famous Popish writers and the late secular . Romish Priests , haue in printed bookes published to the whole world , testified so much of and against them , it maketh me to stagger , and to doubt of the Romith religion , although informer times , I haue high reuerenced the same : for if the Bishop of Rome had beene priuiledged not to erre , not onely the Bishop of Rome , but the holy fathers also of that age , would haue obiected the same against S. Cyprian , vndoubtedly it cannot be denied .

You neither are nor euer were , a more earnest & zealous papist , then my selfe haue béene : but I heartily thanke God for it , I now behold as clearely as the noone day , the absurdities and abhominations of late vpstart popery , the case is so cleare , as euery child of God may with all facility perceiue the same .

Why doe you call it ( late vpstart popery , ) it hath continued from S. Peter , and euery Pope is his successor .

This is one mighty point , which hath not onely seduced and be witched you , but both many others , and myne owne selfe , aswell as you . I truely cald it . ( late vpstart popery , ) because of ten parts it , scarscely retaineth The Iesuites are a now & young ●ecte of Fiyers . two parts of the old Roman religion , which S. Peter and S Paul by their preaching , deliuered to the Church of Rome : yea since the Iesuites began , ( which was about the yeare 1537. ) popish religion is ten times more absurd , then it was afore .

The Catholikes hold constantly , that the true faith and religion which S. Peter and S. Paul preached at Rome , hath euer continued at Rome vntill this present day ; and that no other Church in the Christian world , is able to shew a perpetuall and vninterrupted succession of their Bishops and priests , saue onely the Church of Rome .

This is my answere . First , that the word ( Catholike ) is an holy and auncient name , giuen in the beginning to all Christians and faithfull people in the world , and therefore is it this day highly reuerenced , and continually rehearsed in the publicke prayers of our English Church : but there be two sortes of Catholikes , the one deformed , the other reformed , which reformed Catholikes , The papists are the de●●med Catholique , we the reformed . are all the true members of our English Church , and all such as consesse and embrace the same faith and doctrine with them : Secondly , that the faith and doctrine , which S. Peter and S. Paul preached to the old Rom ▪ 1. v. 8 Romans , remaineth at Rome indéede : but how ? no otherwise , doubtlesse , then an old beggars cloake remaineth still to the beggar , though it haue an hundred clouts of diuerse colours , added and fastened one to another : Thirdly , that our English Church is able to shew a better and sounder perpetuall and vninterrupted succession of her Bishops and Priests , then the late vpstact Church of Rome .

What , are you English-men Catholikes ? you are ( say we at Rome ) flat heretikes and apostataes , as whom , many late Popes of Rome , haue accursed to the deepe pit of hell .

You know there is a sort of Fryers at Rome , commonly called the Franciscans , ( which sect was hatched The sect of Franciscans . and borne in the yéere 1206. ) who haue by little and little swarued from their first institution , and become so licentious and dissolute , that another sect of Fryers commonly Theophilus a Citisen of Rome . called Capuchéenes , ( which thing , you béeing a Citizen of Rome , knowe aswell as my selfe . ) haue accused them to haue depraued and fowly peruerted the rules of their auncient order , sect , and profession , in so much , as they cannot this day with safe consciences embrace the same , and therefore haue they reformed their said sect , and doe terme themselues the reformed true Franciscans indéede : this ( if it be duely considered , ) is doubtlesse this day our case , in our Church of noble England , as also of many other reformed Churches , within the Christian world : for as the Capuchéenes hold fast , Let this be well remembred . our Church reuerenceth antiquity & onely reiecteth nouelties . kéepe still , and constantly defend , all the auncient rules of the old and true Franciscans , and duely reiect and abandon that , which by little & little crept into their sect , ( supertition abuses , neglect of discipline , and dissolute life , ) euen so is it this day in our Church of England . she holdeth fast , kéepeth still , and most constantly deserd●th , The late romish ●aith is the new religion . all and euery rite of the old Roman religion , highly reuerencing the same , as Catholike and Apostolike doctrine . Shee onely reiecteth and abandoneth , heresies , errors , superstitions , and intollerable abuses , by little and little brought into the Church , ( the enemy the dinel hauing sowen Ma●. 13. ver. 25. tares , while the carelesse pastors were a sléepe : ) For neither did most noble Quéene Elizabeth in her time , neither doth our most pious & religious Soueraigne King we are the true reformed Catholikes . IAMES , ( who most happily raigneth ouer vs , ) set vp or bringe into the Church any new religion , but he , as Quéene Elizabeth before , onely reformeth & purgeth the ● . reg. 2. ver 27. 35. ● . par. 1● . 4. reg. 8. 2. 2. pat. 29. par. 2● . 30. 31. 34. Church , after the holy examples of King Dauid , King Salomon , King Iosaphat , King Ezechias , King Iosias , and other godly and zealous Kings in their daies , and carefully reduceth it to the primitiue order , and to the purity of the old Roman religion . This to be so , none can in conscience deny , that will with a single eye this day behold thegodly setled Canons of this Church of England .

If you were able to proue vnto me , that the Church of Rome did any time swarne or reuolt from the old Roman religion , I would doubtlesse forsake the late romish doctrine ( as you terme it , ) and ioyfully yeelde vnto the truth .

I shall proue it by the power of God , and assistance of his holy spirit , before the end of this our conference , if you like to stay to the end thereof , and be not wearied with my discourse .

God reward you for your Christian kindnesse and this paineful trauaile for my sake , your talke is so comfortable to myne heart , that I shall not be weary thereof , though I should stay an whole yeare in your company : but I feare me I shall be too chargeable to you , if I tarry long with you .

I liue ( as you sée ) like a scholler , and kéepe but a sparing diet : if you can content your selfe therewith , I shall ioy thereat : For I know assuredly , that our mercifull God , who , fréely without my deserts , sendeth me al things necessary for my bodily sustenance and who hath Mat. 10. ● . 12 also fréely promised , not to suffer a cuppe of cold water giuen in his name , to passe at any time without reward , will neuer sée or suffer me to want things necessary to my selfe , for bestowing Christian hospitality , vpon my neighbour for his sake : yéeld therefore your serious attention , and ye shall behold these thrées things as cleare as the noo●e day : viz. the false and erroneous faith of your Bishops of Rome , their most brttish and de●estable liues , and their interrupted and most uncerta●● ▪ succession as which is so mingled and mangled , or rather so defaced and vtterly extinguished , that no man can tell , what indéede to make thereof . Of which thrée points , while I shall distinctly discourse , I would haue you to put forth plainly and at large , all such doubts as any way doe trouble you : for that I hold the best course , for your full satisfaction and confirmation in the truth , of the true , auncient Cathalike , and orthodore faith .

WE at Rome hold it constantly for an article of Luc. 12. ● . 3● . the Chatholike faith , that our Popes and Bishops are the successors of S. Peter , and therefore can they not erre in faith or doctrine , no more then S. Peter could ; for whose faith Christ prayed , that it should neuer faile .

How the late Bishops of Rome are S. Peters successors , it shall be shewed ( God willing ) in the chapter of succession . Let vs now vnfold , and sincerely examine , the faith and doctrine of some speciall Popes in particular , for the view and consideration of a few will be a sufficient tryall for all the rest .

I must needes yeeld thereunto , for we hold it a part of the Catholike faith , that Christs prayer was effectuall for all S. Peters successors alike , so as if any one of them can be conuinced to haue erred , we cannot safely relie and ground our faith vpon the rest .

That the Bishops or Popes of Rome ( as ye call them , ) may become heretikes , yea , that they haue béene heretikes de facto , it is a thing so cleare , as I shall not neede to stand long vpon the same : for , many popish decrées and Papall constitutions tell vs , that Popes may be deposed , when and so often as they swarue from the true faith , and become heretikes indéede : which decrées and constitutions must perforce presuppose , that the Popes may be heretikes indéede : for otherwise , they Grat dist. 4● . chap. 〈◊〉 Pap● . should be frustrate and to none end at all : one popish Canon and decrée hath these expresse words , the Pope iudgeth all , and must be iudged of none , vnlesse he swarue from the faith , and be an heretike : another Canon hath these words , sheepe which are committed to their pastor , may neither rebuke him , nor in any wise accuse him , vulesse he depart and forsake the faith : these are the Ans. 2. q. 7. Cap. ●u●● . words of the Popes owne Canons . I doe alledge them truely , as I meane to do all the reste , whatsoeuer I shall The Author takes it vpon his saluation , th●● hee dealeth truely . speake of the Popes themselues , or of any popish writer , which I proteste vnto you once for all , as I will answere the saine at the dreadfull day of generall doome . Now we sée by these Canons , that the Popes may be heretikes , and in the case of heresie be censured , controlled , and condemned .

I heartily thanke you for this your Christian protestation , it fully perswadeth me that I may safely giue credit to all your allegations and asseuerations , whatsoeuer you say of our Popes , Popish writers , and their Faith and Doctrine : But can yee name any Pope indeede , that hath been an Heretique or an Apostate from the Faith ? our honorable and learned Cardinall , the Iesuite Bellarmine , statly denieth it .

Pope Anastasius , Pope Honorius , Pope Iohn , and others haue beene Heretickes . Vignerius . Melchier , Canus , Alphonsus , and Adrianus ▪ all foure famous and 〈◊〉 dela●i● vigner d● ver● . fides . learned Papists , and one of them ( Adrianils ) sometime Pope himselfe , doe affirme it and defend it for a constant and vndoubted truth . Nicholaus de Lyra , a famous Popish Frier , so learned a man , that Sir Thomas Moore called him a great Clearke , ( as he was indéede ) preueth euidently that the Church doth not consist in men , by reason of power or dignity either Ecclesiasticall or Secular : and this is the ground and foundation , vpon which hée ●●ra , in 16. cap. Mat. buildeth his assertion : because ( saith Fryer Lyra ) many Princes and Popes , and others of the inferiour sort , are sound to haue swarued from the faith , and to haue béene flat Apostataes . Yea Iosephus Angles , a famous Popish Bishop , and religious Fryer , in that very booke which hée ●ose A●●● ▪ ● . s. p. 2. q. de exco● . ar. 4. d●●f . 1. deliuered to the Pope himselfe , behold the force of truth ) confirmeth this mine assertion in these expressed words ; Papa hereticus aut Apostata , &c. The Pope being an Heretique or Apostata , may bee deposed by a generall Councel , and the reason is , because as none can be a Prelate of any religion , which is not professed in that religion ; so neither can he be Pope that holdeth not the faith o● the Church . Thus you see it ▪ cléere euen by Popish famous Doctors , & the Popes owne decrées ( such 〈…〉 none can be better ) that the Bishope of Rome may forsake the Christian faith , teach false Doctrine , and become flat Apostataes : Yea , that , de facto , the same hath béene verified , of sundry Popes in very déede .

Our Cardinall Bellarmine , and other learned Catholiques tell vs , that our Pope is a double person ; priuate and publique : that as he is a priuate person , hee may thinke , speake , write and hold erroneous opinions , The Popes double person . false doctrine , and whatsoeuer else ; yet this notwithstanding , that the Pope as he is Pope , and a publique person can neuer erre in any matter of faith , nor iudicially define any thing against the truth . This our famous Dominican Fryer Dominicus de Soto , setteth downe in these expresse words ; quamuis Papa vt Papa &c. Albeit the Pope , as Soto . in 4 s d. 2. 4. 2. 〈◊〉 . ● . Pope , cannot erre , that is to say , cannot set downe any errour as an article of our faith , because the holy Ghost will not that permit ; neuerthelesse , as hee is a priuate person , he may erre euen in faith , as he may do in other sinnes .

This indéede is the ground and foundationo ? all Popish faith and doctrine ; that the Pope may erre as a priuate man , but not as Pope and publique person : for Qu●dl . ● . ● . 10. this cause doth M. Watson tell vs , in the name of all the secular Priests , in their conflict against the traiterous Iesuits ; that as the prudent Gréeke appealed from Alexander furious , to Alexander sober ; and Bishop Crostrate from Pope Adrian priuate , to Pope Adrian publique , and as sumus pontifex in cathedra Petri ; so may the secular Priests , the Popes deuoted vassals , notwithstanding any decrée set downe by his Holinesse to the contrary , by wrong information giuen , appeale euen from the Pope ; as Clemens vnto his holines , as Peter for this cause doth , the Iesuite Parsons , or S. R. in his pretended answere to S. R. pag. 417. the downe ●all of Popery , proclaime it lustily to the work , that Bishops must not examine the doctrine which the Pope ●●●inereth i●ditially out of S. Peters chaire , as suprethe pastor of Gods Church ; but onely that , wherein he vttereth his owne priuate opinion . For this cause doe the Popes decrées roundly tell vs , that it is sacriledge to dispute of the Popes power . So then ; on the one side , Lib. 6. de ha●●t . cap qui conque caus 17 ● . 4. cap. si ●u● . the Pope may be deposed , if he speake , write , or hold hereticall opinions as a priuate man ; but on the other side , whatsoeuer the Pope shall define or decrée , as Pope and publike person , that we must receiue , reuerence , and constantly beléeue ; otherwise , we must be adiudged Heretiques and be burnt with fire and saggot at a stake . What a religion eat yee this ? the Pope may decrée things Popery is a most meserarable religion . at his owne good pleasure either as a priuate man , or as a publique person ; the one way he cannot erre , as Papists doe and must beléeue ; but the otherway , hee both may erre and hath de facto erred in very déede : it therefore standeth with all reason , piety and good conscience , that the Papists shall examine his decrées , whether they procéede from the Pope as a publique person or as a priuate man , le●t they receiue errors for faith , falshood for truth , & poyson for wholesome medicine . Howbeit , they must beléeue all things resolutely ; they may doubt or dispute of nothing curiously , lest they be accused of sacriled●● or heresie . For , if the Pope when he spake or wrote sate in S. Peters chaire at Rome , ( an old rotten and worme-eaten thing , which the silly people adore , reuerence , and kisse , as my selfe sometimes haue done , and Saint Peter perhaps neuer saw or knew the same ) then the case is cléere , the Popes decrée is as sound as the holy Gospel , and procéedeth from the holy Ghost .

All this is very true , and we are taught to beleeue , that Saint Peter sate in that chaire indeede , and that it hath beene reuerently kept from Saint Peters death to this day , insomuch that they are likewise taught to bring girdles to touch the said chaire , which therefore are called Saint Peters girdles for the safe deliuerance of women which are with child , and doe vse them : neither did I euer heare to this day , that any Pope taught false Doctrine , or decreed any vntruth out of Saint Peters chaire .

Whether Saint Peter euer sate in that chaire or not , it is not much materiall ; this one thing is certaine , that it is this day most superstitiously abused and that the real sitting in the material chaire , cannot preserue him that sitteth in it , from false doctrine or erroneous faith , whereof more at large hereafter , as your demandes or difficulties shal minister fit occasion ; that many Popes haue béene Heretiques and flat Apostataes , is already proued out of your owne best approued Doctors . Now will I likewise proue vnto you ( God willing ) euen by the expresse testimonies of most renowned Popish writers ; that sundry Popes haue taught and decréed false doctrine , and that as publique persons sitting in Saint Peters chaire , as they call it , and that done . I will answere to all your obiections against the same . M. Gerson , sometime Gers ▪ in Serp● . de Pasck . ● . pa●t . Chauncellour of the famous Uniuersity of Paris , and a man of high estéeme in the Councel of Constance , writeth plainely , and auoucheth it for a constant knowne truth , that Pope Iohn the 22. of that name , taught publiquely , that the soules of the iust doe not sée God till the day of generall Doome , as also , that his false doctrine was publiquely condemned with the sound of trumpets , euen before Philip , then King of France . Yea Adrianus ( who was Bishop of Rome himselfe ) doth constantly auouch the same truth as testifieth Alphonsus a zealous and learned Popish Writer , in these expresse wordes ; Nouissime fertur de Iohanne 22. quod &c. Last of all , it is reported of Pope Iohn the 22. that hee publiquely taught , declared , and commaunded all to hold The Pope ●rr●d . as a publique person , ie cannot be denied . the same , that the soules of the iust before the day of iudgement generall , haue not the stole , which is the cleare and faciall vision of God : and he is reported to haue induced the vniuersity of Paris to this , that none should take degrée of Theology in the same , but those that did first sweare to defend this error , and to adhere to it for euer : Thus writeth Adrian , who was himselfe Pope or Bishop of Rome : And Alphonsus a man of good credite with the papists , after he had rekoned vp fiue heresies , setteth downe this for the ●i●th heresie : ( viz that Alphon. ● Castrolib . ● . ad vers . h●re ses , ●rop● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . the soules of the iust doe not see God till the day of doome ) ascribing the said heresie to the Armenians as to the authors thereof , and to the Greekes together with Pope Iohn , as the patrons and defenders of the same . So then it is cleare as the noone day , that the Bishops of Rome both may erre , and , de facto , haue erred , not onely as priuate men , but also as Popes and publike persons in their iudiciall sentences and decrées . Bellarmine your romish Bellarm. de ●um Pontifice lib 4. c. 14 Iesuits and Cardinal , séeing the force of this testimony , and ma●king well that it doth ouerthrowe the highest point of their late start vp popery , doth bestir●e himselfe more then a little in defence of popish faith : he would gladly perswade his reader , that their Pope Iohn erred onely as a priuate man , and not as a Pope or Bishop of Rome : ●●te pope●y i● not the old but the new religion . which is a subtile distinction , but falsly inuented to seduce the silly people therewith , lest they should forsake the Pope & his new religion : I proue it many wayes , first , because Pope Adrian himselfe saith , ( docuit hee taught ) Secondly , because he saith ( Publicé publiquely ) Thirdly , because he saith ( Mandauit , hée commanded all to hold it . ) Fourthly , because none could bee made Graduates in the Uniuersity , which held not this opinion . Fiftly , because euery Graduate was sworne to desend it , and to hold it for euer . So then , the Pope erred de facto , euen in his publike decrée of faith , and that euen by the Di●it Adrianus , A. D. 1171. consent of Adrian , who sometime was Pope himselfe ; yea , who for learning and knowledge , was one of the rarest Popes that euer were at Rome . What say you to this testimony , M. Theophilus ? doe ye not sée it euidently proued , euen by the testimony of approued Popish writers , that the Pope both may erre , and , de facto , hath erred ; and that not onely as a priuate man , but also as a publique person .

Your reasons are so strong , so pithy , and so plaine indeed , that I know not in the world how in truth to answere them , they make me to stagger in my old Romish faith , and to doubt of that , whereof I neuer doubted all my life before : for , we Catholiques haue euer holden it for an article of our Catholique faith , that the Pope as Pope and publique person cannot erre : and therefore that they are to bee censured for Heretiques , whosoeuer will not receiue and beleeue , as articles of the Christian faith , whatsoeuer the Pope defineth iudicially and publiquely , as sitting in Peters chaire .

This lately coyned diabolicall distinction of the Popes double person , with the circumstances wherewith it is adorned , may fitly be tearmed a trick of Legierdemaine , A tricke of Legierdemaine . wherewith many haue béene seduced a long time . For , when the Pope is charged and plainely conuicted to haue decréed false and erroneous doctrine to bée holden for articles of the faith ; then the Pope and his Iesuites , with their Iesuited broode , tell vs peremptorily , and as it were violently enforce vs to beléeue it , that such decrées procéede from the Popes Holinesse , as a priuate man , but not as a publique person . What a thing is this ? if the Pope decrée any thing , how absurd soeuer it be , and A most blasphemous doctrine . affirme the same to be his iudiciall sentence out of Peters chaire , then the same must be holden and be beléeued for an article of faith , and to be as true as the Gospell of Iesus Christ ; and he that will not so hold , and so beléeue , must be burnt for an Heretique : & for all this , no Scripture , no generall Councell , no holy Father , no learned Popish Writer , for the space of 1400. yeares after Christs sacred incarnation , ( my life and saluation I gage for the Marke this well . tryall ) can be truely produced or alleaged for the confirmation and clearing of such Popish dotage , or rather of such diabolical heresie , and neuer-inough detested villany .