A full satisfaction concerning a double Romish iniquitie; hainous rebellion, and more then heathenish æquiuocation Containing three parts: the two former belong to the reply vpon the Moderate Answerer; the first for confirmation of the discouerie in these two points, treason and æquiuocation: the second is a iustification of Protestants, touching the same points. The third part is a large discourse confuting the reasons and grounds of other priests, both in the case of rebellion, and æquiuocation. Published by authoritie.

A FVLL SATISFACTION CONCERNING A DOVBLE ROMISH INIQVITIE ; hainous Rebellion , and more then heathenish Aequiuocation . Containing three Parts : The two former belong to the Reply vpon the Moderate Answerer ; the first for Confirmation of the Discouerie in these two points , Treason and Aequiuocation : the second is a Iustification of Protestants , touching the same points . The third Part is a large Discourse confuting the Reasons and grounds of other Priests , both in the case of Rebellion , and Aequiuocation .

DEVT. 32. VERS. 32.

Their grapes are grapes of gall , their clusters are bitter .

Published by Authoritie .

LONDON , Printed by Richard Field for Edmond Weauer . 1606.

TO THE PVISSANT AND MOST RENOWMED PRINCE , OVR GRACIOVS SOVEraigne , Iames by the grace of God King of great Britaine , France and Ireland , Defender of the Apostolike faith , &c.

IT is not long sithence ( most gracious Soueraigne ) that one inscribed A moderate Answer , did traduce before your Maiestie the late Discouerer of Romish rebellious Positions for an iniurious and slanderous Pamphleter : Now therefore Innocencie , which ( * Gen. 2. 25. though naked ) was neuer ashamed , hath charged me to manifest my selfe vnto your Highnesse , and , together with my Aduersarie , to appeale vnto your incomparable wisedome , which I do in so constant assurance of an vpright conscience , as that I shall willingly remit that iust aduantage , which the difference of comparison both betweene a legitimate or conformable subiect , and a person suspiciously degenerate ; as also betweene a Minister of simple truth , and a professed Aequiuocator , doth offer vnto me : and to be contented onely with that respect which the equitie of my cause may allow . It hath pleased my Aduersarie thus to decipher me : * Answer cap. 1. in initio . The Discouerer ( saith he ) is like to the espiall of king Alexander , who brought word that an army of enemies was approching , when they were but a small companie of sillie Apes , imitating souldiers in a march from the mountaines : thus he , as a man distempered in his braine , and deluded in his fantasie , hath beheld our Catholike Priests , whom in euery page he calleth seditious and traiterous persons . This then onely was my error ; I thought , indeed , that I had discouered a companie of men , but my Answerer telleth me they were but beastes : and I partly beleeue him , for what men could euer be so sauage , as ( for so they haue professed concerning Protestants ) to depriue men of the due respects of all humanitie ? Notwithstanding though I had bene so much mistaken , as not to know that his Monks were but Munkies , and his Priests but Apes , yet sure I am ( and he so acknowledgeth ) that they were a companie of creatures which did imitate souldiers on the mountaines . This I then partly discouered , and now ( God willing ) will proue more plentifully in this Replie . The mountaines , from whence they march , be those * Apoc. 17. 9. Seuen hils of Babylon , whereon the woman clothed in scarlet sitteth : which ( by the confession of two most learned * Ribera & Viega in their commentaries vpon this place . Iesuites ) doth signifie Rome , as it must be in the dayes of Antichrist . May it now please your sacred Maiestie , to see how exactly they imitate Souldiers in their march ? Parsons , teaching persecution against all Kings and States Protestant , doth propound for his imitation the example of Dauid in his conflict against Goliah ; Allen the example of Eliah in calling , if it were possible , for fire from heauen to consume the messengers of Kings ; Renalds the example of Iabel to knocke Generals on the head ; Bellarmine the example of Iehoida and other Priestes for murthering of opposite Queenes ; Sanders the example of Mattathias , who fought against King Antiochus ; Simancha the example of Heathenish Scythians , who murthered their naturall King Scyles ; Buchier the example of Sampson , to kill , if they can , a thousand , of his supposed Philistims with the iaw-bone of an Asse . These , and many such like be but his sillie Apes : which I should rather iudge to be of that kind whereof the prouerbe speaketh , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , because they cannot be discerned but by euents . But this Moderate answerer may be referred to our faithfull Replie , wherein he will appeare often to haue betrayed his owne title , except some will call that moderation , which hath in it neither modum nor rationem . After the Replie is finished , there is presented to your Princely and most religious iudgement , a Confutation of the reasons of two of their more then vnreasonable positions ; as namely , of hainous rebellions , and execrable aequiuocations : both which are refelled ( I hope ) sufficiently by the testimonies of their owne most principall Doctors . A course which I professe in all disputes ; knowing that by no better wisedome may this new Babylon be confounded , then wherwith God wrought the destruction of the old , euen * Gen. 11. 7 & 9 The diuision of their tongues . In the first part of the Confutation is examined the ambition of Romish prelacie , who would aduance their myters aboue scepters : which vsurpation the right honorable Earle of Northampton , at the arraignement of Garnet , did , according to his singular learning formed and habited with sound iudgement , publikely conuince of palpable noueltie , and insolencie intollerable . In the last place is discouered the other mysterie of iniquitie , a booke which hath this inscription by the Author , A Treatise of Aequinocation , but thus altered by the Authoriser thereof , A Treatise against lying and fraudulent dissimulation . We reade of the idolatrous Iewes , who , worshipping a * Exod. 32. 5. Golden calfe , did name their adoration of an abhominable idole , an holy day vnto the Lord . Plutarke maketh mention of certaine Apothecaries who painted vpon their boxes of poison the titles of Antidote or Presernatiues against poison . Polydore obserueth , that the Popes a long time in their election had their names changed by Antiphrase , viz. the elected if he were by naturall disposition fearefull , was named Leo ; if cruell , Clemens ; if vnciuill Vrbanus ; if wicked , P●…s ; if couetous , Bonifacius ; if in all behauiours intollerable , Innocentius . So now this Popish Treatise of aequiuocation , the notablest Art of lying , & most bottomlesse dissimulation that euer the prince of darknesse did inuent , will be styled , A Treatise against lying and fraudulent dissimulation . Yet why may not a lying title best befit the doctrine of lying & dissimulation ? Which kind of publike transfiguration of sinne into the habite of vertue , ( as it were the Angell of darknesse into an Angell of light ) S. Bernard often nameth Daemon meridianus , The diuell at noone day . Notwithstanding lest that the publishing of this cursed Arte might in respect of the more carnally minded , aedificare ad gehennam : edifie vnto hell ( as that reuerend Bishop of Chichester , & learned father of our Church hath said : ) I haue so framed this dispute , that it may seeme ( I hope ) to be like Aristotle his bookes of naturall Philosophie , So published , as not published ; because the clause of mentall Reseruation ( the taile of this serpent , wherin the whole poyson lyeth ) is alwayes deliuered in Latine phrase , to this end , that onely the guiltie partie by his sensible coniecture may perceiue his error confuted , and yet the ignorant , though desirous to touch pitch , may not be defiled . Which doctrine because it is acknowledged by your Highnesse , in your admirable wisedome , to be in Religion most sacrilegious and detestable , in politike state most pernitious and intollerable , & in euery actor most banefull to the soule of man : it may please your excellent Maiestie to prouide in this behalfe for your faithfull and religious Subiects , that they neuer be so intoxicated with this Antichristian spirit , as either to deceiue or be deceiued thereby . First not to be deceiued : but seeing that the authors of Aequiuocation are by it , as by a Gyges ring , made in a sort inuisible vnto Protestants to plot and practise against them what & when they wil , and Vlysses-like make a verie Polyphemus of your most noble State , that whensoeuer they be asked , who is the Traitor , licence themselues during life to answer ( till they be conuicted ) by that aequiuocating 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : that therfore against such as cannot hurt vs but by our credulitie , there may be enacted , ( the onely refuge of Tullie ) Lex non credendi ; a law of not beleeuing them . Concerning deceiuing by the same policie more subtle then anie Machiauellisme , I would be a most humble suppliant to your gracious Highnesse , not to permit anie , of what condition soeuer , in the cure of the diseased bodie politike , ( as it were driuing out poyson with poyson ) in winding out these aequiuocators to aequinocate . For this purpose the counsell of S. Augustine is most soueraigne : * August . cont. mendac . Non minùs pernitiosè mentitur Catholicus , vt haereticos capiat ; quàm mentitur haeretiens , vt Catholicos lateat ; nec cuiquam persuaderi potest hominem non mentiri , nè capiat ; ur qui mentitur vt capiat . For it is certaine * Ephes. 4. 11. We ( to speake in the Apostles tenor ) haue not so learned Christ as the truth in Iesus : by whom we are taught that the new man must crucisie the old man , and therefore not to seeke by such diuellish exorcisme to driue out Satan by Satan , but to mortifie ambition by humilitie , intemperance by sobrietie : in briefe , to conquer all euill by goodnesse , and therefore onely truth must catch and kill a lye . Let not your Maiestie be offended with my boldnesse in exceeding the measure of an Epistle against my accustomed breuitie in all my labors : it is * Psal. 116. 10. Credidi that begetteth Ergolocutus sum . Therfore speaking from the truth , I could not but speake for truth : and now , in high detestation both of idolatrous superstition , and hellish aequiuocation , beseech the God of truth to make your name glorious in Christendome , in the zealous defence both of the true faith of Christ , and Christian faithfulnes : establishing your Maiesties kingdome in peace , your person in safetie , your soule in grace , your Queene in mutuall ioy , your royall Succession in happie successe as long as the world endureth ; and in the end of mortalitie to crowne you all with endlesse blessednes .

The vnworthie Minister of Christ , and your Maiesties most dutifull subiect , Thomas Morton .

TO THE SEDVCED Brethren , Grace and peace in Christ Iesus .

AFter that I had discouered vnto you ( my Brethren ) the hainous positions of your Priests , there arose some one , I thinke , of that priesthood , entituling himselfe A moderate answerer ; and me A slanderous and lying libeller : And why ? Because the testimonies alledged ( saith he ) are falsly applied . For proofe of this , scarce examining one of twentie , he commonly returneth this answer : If this ( saith he ) be the opinion of these Authors , or if these Authors write thus &c. wilfully seating himselfe in the chaire of those Doctors , whom the Apostle hath described : * 1. Tim. 1. 7. They will be Doctors , and yet vnderstand not what they say , nor whereof they affirme . To the manifold and manifest * In the 1 and 2. part . proofes , I may now adde the * In the third part Arguments of the same Priests for the defence of their discouered rebellious conclusions . By what reason then can my Moderate Answerer charge me as slanderously misreporting that to be the doctrine of those Priests , which the Priests themselues by Reasons labour to confirme ? Wherfore I perswade my self his intent in answering was not to answer , that is , to satisfie the iudicious : but onely to be thought to haue answered , that is , to delude the too credulous : like the answer which the priests of the Synagogue did prescribe , for repressing the discouerie of the resurrection of Christ out of the sepulcher , saying : Whilest we slept his Disciples came and stole him away . Common sense might haue replied , How could you tell what was done when you were all asleepe ? But minds enthralled in the opinion of a neuer c●●ing Priesthood ( which confirmed that Answer ) could not possibly but erre with their Priests . Such , alas , is the case of all them , whom ( because they will not seeke or see the truth ) God in his iustce * 2. Thess. 2. 11 Deliueteth vp to beleeue lies , as idle and fabulous as fancies and dreames of men asleepe . Of which kind be many of your lying Reuelations : as that of the Deliuerance of the soule of Traian out of the lowest hell . Many lying priuiledges , as that temporall Donation of Constantine : and the other Ecclesiasticall forged Canon for Appeales to Rome . Many lying Traditions , as that Bodily assumption of the blessed Virgin into heauen . Many lying Saints , as that of Saint Christopher ( except in a picture ) neuer seene . Many lying Sanctities , as that of S. Francis in harboring of alouse . Many lying Histories , as the Golden Legend , an abstract of a leaden braine . Many lying reports , as of the now Miracles among the Indians : to omit many lying prophecies and reports ; with infinite such other , which they call Piae fraudes , that is , godly cosinages : inuented to keepe the people in deuotion , and their priesthood in estimation . But that which excelleth all the rest in falshood , is their Aequiuocation , as being not onely alying Art , but also an Art of lying . This is now practised ( as will be proued ) in most detestable periuries for couert of the horrible treasons of their priesthood : teaching you to imitate the wisedome of the Ostrich ; which bird , if she can but couer her head , thinketh all her bodie safe . Notwithstanding that Romish See , like to the * Jud● v. 13. raging sea ( when none sought to discouer it ) fomed out her owne shame : especially in these two mischiefes which are noted as indiuiduall companions in holy writ , * Psal. 5. 6. Speaker of lies , and the bloud-thirstie man ; * Prou. 6. 17. Lying tongues , and hands that shedde bloud ; * Esa. 59. 3. Hands defiled with bloud , and tongues that speake lies : Such are their hands of Treason , and tongues of Aequiuocation . But hearken a little , * 2 Tim. 3. 4. In the last dayes ( saith the Apostle ) shall come perillous times , when men shall be voide of naturall affection , truce-breakers , false accusers , Traitors . All which we proue to be the expresse characters of your Priests . O but it may be thought that the Apostle doth not describe any that do such things with any religious intent , but onely desperate and profane miscreants , who make no conscience of sinne : not so : for in the next words the Apostle describeth the colour of their cloake : * 2 Tim. 3. 5. Hauing ( saith he ) a shew of godlinesse , but denie the power thereof . A prophesie plainely verified by your Priests in their godlesse practises and godly pretences . Wherefore you are exhorted in the words following , Turne away from such . You should haue had this Reply two moneths ago , but that I was to adde another discourse of greater importance , which is contained in the third part . You see Beloued , how vpon all occasions , as I am exhorted by the Spirit of God , I * 2. Tim. 2. 25. cease not to instruct you , though contrarie minded , trying if at anie time God will grant you repentance , that you may acknowledge his truth . And now the God of truth and life illuminate and sanctifie your hearts in knowledge and obedience of his will , to the glorie of his sauing grace in Christ : In whom

Yours , T. M.

The first Part of this Reply , conteining the Confirmation of the former Discouerie against the friuolous Cauils of the immoderate Answerer .

CHAP. I.

The Discouerie of Romish Positions and Practises rebellious .

The first Reason .

THeir generall Assumption , whereupon all their rebellious Positions are founded , is this , that All Protestants are Heretikes and Excommunicate .

The Answerer . A moderate Answer to an iniurious and slanderous Discouerie .

a a Answer cap. 2. § Wherefore . I answer , that this Position of the Discouerer , [ All Protestants in the censure of Catholikes are Heretikes and Excommunicate , ] is no generall assumption in Catholike Religion : from whence it will follow , that none of our Positions are to be iudged rebellious ; because he telleth vs that all these are builded vpon this Assumption .

A faithfull Reply .

By which answer I am chalenged to a double imployment : first , to confirme this my former Assumption , [ All Protestants in the common censure of Papists ( superarrogantly called Catholikes ) are esteemed as Heretikes and Excommunicate : the second , to improue this your illation and consequent , [ If we iudge not Protestants Heretikes and excommunicate , it will follow that our Positions cannot be proued rebellious . ] Our Assumption you impugne both by ample asseueration , and also ( in your opinion ) by learned proofes a●d demonstrations . Your Asseueration followeth .

The moderate Answerer .

b b Answer chap. 2. § Wherfore . I suppose that not one particular learned Catholike in this Kingdome ( yet such can best iudge of our country cause ) doth or will defend this opinion , that Protestants are Heretikes and excommunicate : for there is not one Protestant esteemed with vs to be in that case within the dominions of our Soueraigne , of condition whatsoeuer in my knowledge .

The Reply .

What is this ? No Papist doth iudge any Protestant an Heretike or excommunicate to your knowledge ? As though you could instruct vs , how to know , when you speake from your knowledge : knowing that you professe your selfe to be one of that sect , who cannot possibly be knowne of vs , so long as you lurke in the hole of that Foxe , which you call Aequiuocation . And surely this your minsing Suppose giueth vs cause to suspect in you some such prodigious conceit : whereof * * Part. 3. hereafter . In the instant we may demand , why you , who fetch all practises and positions , as it were Dagges and their cases , from beyond the sea , shold now stand only to the iudgment of the Papists of This kingdome in this your Countrie case ? Is the cause of vs Protestants the same , and shall we be subiect to contrarie Tribunals ? Haue you * * 1. Reg. 12. 29. One God in Dan , and another in Bethel ? Not , but that we wish that the same sea , which seuereth our country Region from Rome , might likewise distinguish your Religion . But , to leaue your Suppose , we will examine your proofe .

CHAP. II.

Containing fiue of the Arguments of The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer chap. 2. § Fourthly . NO man doubting in faith , b b Ibid. § For first . & § Secondly . But onely such as be obstinate ; c c § Thirdly . No ignorant beleeuer , or , d d § For first . deceiued of Heretikes , but he to whom the truth hath bene made knowne ; e e § Fiftly . None onely internally infected , but he that is a manifest professor , is subiect to the censure of Excommunication for Heresie . But Protestants ( in our opinion ) are of these conditions ( implying that they be doubting , and not resolute ; ignorant of the contrarie Romish faith , and not vnderstanding ; internally infected , and not outward Professors of their faith ) Therefore ( in our opinion ) no Heretikes .

The Reply .

We may not be ignorant , first , that , seeing the nature of Heresie is such , that f f Malitia huius peccati in intellectu , non voluntate consummatur . Vasques Iesuita dist. 126. cap 3. num. 6. It is a vice proper to the mind ; it may denominate the subiect whatsoeuer an Heretike without obstinacie , which is onely a peruerse obliquitie of the will : and therefore man may be an Heretike , though he be not obstinate . Secondly , because g g Ecclesia non potest aliquid praecipere circa actus interiores aut punire : vt docent Scholastici . Tolet. Jes . Instruct Sacer. lib. 1. cap. 19. The Church , consisting of men , doth only iudge of outward actions of men ; we must consider that there is difference of the iudgement of an Heretike , h h Cuncrus lib. de Offic. Princ ▪ paulò ante finem . Fori & poli , namely , of man iudging the outward act ; & of God , who discerneth the inward thought . And may hereupon conclude , that i i Possit esse aliquis occultè Haereticus , & tamen exterius ob metum , aut aliquod lucrum fidem profiteri . Bellar. Ies. & Cardinal . lib. 3. de not . Eccl. cap. 10. There may be an internall Heretike , though not manifest vnto the Church . But because you do onely vnderstand outward Heretikes subiect to the censure of men , I approach to the Question , to disable both your Propositions by the generall and ordinarie , but ( in some points ) new and vnreasonable determinations of your owne schoole , By a threefold euidence : from a Popish 1. Definition of an Heretike , 2. Explication of a person excommunicate , 3. Application of Romish censures to them both .

CHAP. III.

Popish definition of an Heretike .

a a Haec est Religionis sola ratio , vt omnes intelligant sic simpliciter esse credendum atque loquendum , quemadmodum Romana Ecclesia credendum esse docet ac praedicat . Cunerus lib. de O●… , Princ. cap. 13. THat is onely true Religion ( say your Romish Doctors ) which is taught in the Romish Church . And therefore b b Qui intelligens aliquam sententiam expressè ab Ecclesia damnatam , eam retinueri● , Haereticus pertinax est censen dus . Alphons . de Castro lib. 1. de iusta punit . Hare . cap. 10. & Tolet. Ies. Instruct . Saccrd . lib. 1. cap. 19 Whosoeuer maintaineth any doctrine condemned in that Church , must be accounted an obstinate Heretike . What , obstinate ? It may be , some do but doubtingly defend it ; what will you iudge of these ? c c Qui voluntariè de side dubitat , censeiur verè & propriè Haereticus . Azor. Ies Inst. Moral . lib. 8. ca. 9. § Sexto . Eodem modo Tol●t . Instruct . Sacerd. Alphons . & alij . If he doubt thereof willingly , he is certainely an Heretike . But , it may be he is ignorant ; will no ignorance excuse him ? d d Ignorantia cras●a non excusat aliquem à pertinacia . Tol. Ies. lib. 1. instruc . Saccrd . cap. 19. § Haeretici & Azor. Ies●nstit . Moral . pag 949. Affected ignorance doth argue him an obstinate Heretike . Yet it may be , he is no principal one to professe the supposed hereticall doctrine , but onely to fauour the Doctors or professors thereof : e e In prima Excommunicatione Bull ●…coenae , ex communicatio ●ulminatur in omnes Haereticos & eorum credentes ; nec tantùm in istos , sed etiam defensores & fautores . Tolet. instr . Sacerd lib 1. cap. 19. Alphons . lib. 1. cap. 7. Turrecrem . part. 2. lib 4. cap. 21. Azar . I●s . instit. lib. 8. cap. 15. Yet then doth the Bull of Excommunication , called Bulla Coenae , thunder against them ; and not only them , but also all wilfull defenders and fauourers . Of which kind all such , as f f Credentes , qui optant in eorum fide mori . Tolet. quo supra . Wish to die in their faith : g g Defensores , qui scientes opem illis praestant . ●zor . les quo suprà . Harbour their persons : h h Fautores , qui verbis , scriptis , aut factis ●os laud●nt vt bonos viros , & eorum causae patrocinantur . Tol●t . Ies. quo suprà . Commend their behauiours : i i Illi sunt intelligendi Haeretici manifesti , qui contra sidem Catholicam publicè praedicant aut profitentur , seu defendunt errorem . Alphons . de Castro . Or do either publikely preach or professe their doctrine , are to be accounted manifest Heretikes . In briefe , our countriman vpon this case of conscience . k k Contumax Haereticus est tam praesumptus quàm manifestus . Sayr . Casib . Consc. lib. 1. cap 9 § 3● . An obstinate Heretike is as well he that is presumed so to be , as he that is manifest . Now let me be beholden vnto you for an Answer , whether that all Protestants of all conditions do not renounce your Romish Religion ? Do not Ministers preach publikely , and people also professe the contrarie ? Doth not the King and whole state enact lawes , and Magistrates execute them to ruinate your Babel ? What sort of people is there in England ( Recusants excepted ) which doth not either beleeue the doctrine of Protestants , or defend their persons , or reade their bookes ? &c. Seeing therfore * * Iam supra lit . k. That ( as your great Casuist hath said ) euery one presumed to be an Heretike , is taken for an obstinate . What one is there among all these kinds who can be free from your censures against Heretikes ? For when your Leo Pope as * * Apolog. Taking eares to be hornes , shall iudge truths to be errors , what shall then become of innocents ? But lest your inuisible modesty may denie this , it will be largely proued in the fift Chapter .

CHAP. IIII.

Concerning the second euidence by Romish Exposition of a person excommunicate .

The moderate Answerer in two other Arguments .

a a Cap. 2. § Sixtly . SIxtly , before Excommunication no communion is forbidden with any , whatsoeuer this Discouerer obiecteth from b b I●sia Rat. 4. Panormitanus , [ that where the crime is notorious ; ] such as the man telleth vs heresie is , [ There needeth not any declaration of Excommunication . ] For it is absolutely against the generall Councell of * * Conc. Lateran . cap. 3. Haereticorum . Cunerus de Offic. Princ. cap. 7. 8. Nauar. de Concil. Lateran , to the which consenteth Cunerus , and Nauarr. c c Ibid. § Seuenthly . Seuenthly , no Protestant or Heretike not Excommunicate by name ( as none in England is ) lieth subiect to any penaltie pretended .

The Reply .

I haue iustly manifested your darknesse , and now also hold it necessarie to continue a Discouerer , when you make your selfe so notorious a couerer of so many palpable vntruths , which I must vnfold in euery passage . For the present three . 1. No communion forbid to any before Excommunication . 2. No Heretike , not excommunicate by name , is subiect to any penaltie . 3. No Protestant is excommunicate by name . The falshood of all which is discouered by the iudgement of your owne schoole . First , Panormitan , you know , defendeth that * * Iam supra lit . a When the heresie is publikely knowne , there needeth no pronunciation of the sentence of Excommunication . But this is but as one swallow with you . Whatsoeuer ( say you ) the Discouerer obiecteth from Panormitan , &c. to make your Reader suspect , that I relyed onely vpon the iudgement of Panormitan for a point of so necessary consequent . Did I not alledge also your most famous Iesuite Gregorie of Valentia for confirmation thereof ? though then indeed the exigence of time would not permit me to translate it , and my presumption of a Modest Answerer whomsoeuer ( as of one that would vnderstand Latin ) thought it also superfluous : yet now for your better information , and the Readers satisfaction , I am constrained to English it . d d Crimen haerefis , &c. Greg. Valent. Vide R●● . 4. If the guilt of heresie be so notorious ( saith he ) as that by no euasion it can be concealed , the partie doth incurre the penaltie thus farre , that his subiects may denie such a Lord all fealtie , yea before the sentence of iudgement .

I did also alledge a third , namely , Bannes , a man famous among your Doctors , and guarded in this point with the common consent of the schoole . His words are these : e e In hoc Articulo , &c. Infra Rat 4. In this Article do Felinus and Caietan , and the more common opinion of the Scholers of Thomas concurre : prouing that the euidence of the fact is as effectuall in this caese , as a publike sentence in iudgement . I did furthermore ( pardon me if I must discouer your partiall concealements ) adde yet another Iesuite , your Father Creswell , auouching that this opinion f f Hoc vniuersa Theologorum , &c. Infra Rat 4. Hath the vniuersall consent of Lawyers and Diuines . I might haue cited more witnesse to appeare , if I had thought it as necessarie for euidence to the cause , as I feared lest it should be tedious to the iudicious Reader .

But lest you or I may seeme to unisconstrue ( because you name it ) the Lateran Councell , giue your owne Doctors leaue to interprete it . g g Arma in Regem sumere , etiam ante latam Iudicis sententiam , vbi crimen est notorium , Bannes 2. 2. q. 12. docet . idque patet ex Conc. Lateranensi , [ Si Princeps incidit in sententiam Canonis , incidit in poenam designatam citra nouum iudicium . ] Autor de Jast . Abdicat . pag. 352 & 357. It is euident ( saith your Iesuite ) from this Decree of the Councell of Latèran ; If the Prince fall into the sentence of the Canon , forthwith he falleth into the penaltie denounced , before any further iudgement . Your next Author , whom you name , h h Manifestum est ex Concilio Lateranensi contra Haereticos decretum esse in haec verba : [ Sub Anathemate prohibemus , ne quis eos in domo vel in terra fouere praesumat ] Cunerus lib de Offic. Princ. c. 9. Cunerus , doth onely report the sentence of Anathema : but that an Heretike is not to be exempted from all communion before a iudiciall and personall sentence , he lendeth you no voice , but proueth the contrarie . Wherein I further maruell that you dare match the the Councell of Lateran , and your Author Cunerus in one consent , because if you follow that corrupt Councell , you must necessarily be disloyall : if you yeeld to Cunerus , there is hope you may proue a good subiect , as * * I●fra in the 3. Pa●● . hereafter will appeare in due place .

Lastly , those others you onely would name , may not be compared to our witnesses which we haue expressely named , Panormitan , Bannes , Thomas and his Scholers , Creswell and the vniuersall voice of Schooles .

Those other also which ( I say ) I might haue cited , do now approach , as namely , your Cardinall , and sometime Iesuite , Tolet from the nature of iudiciall Excommunications in Councels , i i Iuris Excommunicatio semper est generalis , non enim ponitur contra determinatam personam , sed determinatè contra facientes vel non facientes hoc vel illud . Tolet. Jes . instruct . lib. 1. cap. 5. The Excommunication of the law is generall , not directly against any determinate person . Which will appeare presently in the vse of * * Infra cap. 5. Anathema : so that ( as saith your Iesuite Sà ) k k Excommunicatio sine monitione ferè semper est inualida : Suffici● tamen in Excommunicatione generali generalis monitio ; & quidem ipsum praeceptum generale promulgatum monitio est , & quaeuis prohibitio peccati futuri . Eman. Sd Aphor. Tit. Excommunicatio . A generall Admonition is sufficient to inferre a generall Excommunication ; and that which is generally published containeth in it a generall Admonition . So generall , that your Iesuite Azo●ius doth wickedly extend the censure not onely to the namelesse , but also blamelesse sonnes of his supposed Heretikes . l l Poenam haeresis contrahunt filij Haereticorum , si filij sunt eorum , quos Haereticos esse constiterit , ●ue per euidentiam facti , fiue per sententiam iudicis . Azor. Ies. instit. Moral . lib. 8. cap. 13. The sonnes of Heretikes ( saith he ) are subiect to the punishment of heresie , if they be the sonnes of knowne Heretikes , whether knowne by euidence of their offence , or by sentence of the Iudge . And vpon this Assertion your Cardinall Allane is bold to conclude , m m Allan● in his booke against the executi●● of English iustice , intituled , A modest Defence of English Catholikes , pag. 87. The Canon lawes being Authenticall in all lawfull Tribunals , do make all Heretikes , not onely after they be named particularly , but ipso facto , as soone as they be Heretikes , de Iure , by lawe excommunicate for the same to be depriued . If this his ( so intituled ) Modest Defence be true , then doubtlesse in this your Moderate Answer ( as you tearme it ) your last Arguments you call Sixt-ly , and Seuenth-ly , must be taken as the sound of their last syllables do import . Hitherto we haue confuted your onely exceptions of an Heretike , and an Excommunicate from your owne explications . We furthermore disproue them by

CHAP. V.

The third euidence from Popish Applications of Censures proper to Heretikes .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 2. § Seuenthly , & § For first . NO Protestant in England is , in our opinion , excommunicate by name ; and therefore lyeth not subiect to the penaltie pretended . Ergo The foundation of this Discouerer is ruinate .

The Reply .

This your Proposition , [ None is excommunicate who is not excommunicate by name , ] we haue discouered , by many witnesses , to be your proper forge and miserable refuge , which the desperatnesse of your cause did inforce you vnto . That no English Protestant is excommunicate by name , how can you warrant vs ? If they be all excommunicate in the name of English , or in the name of Caluinists , or in the name of Protestants , or in the name of Heretikes ; are they not namely excommunicate ? To expect that all Heretikes should be cited by their sirnames of Tesimond , Garnet , Blackwel , &c. is against the tenor of Councels in this word Anathema , as will appeare . Shall we thinke that the grand Heretikes , the Arrians , were thus formally denounced ? This in those times , for their infinite number , had bene impossible : much lesse can it be possible in these dayes , ( though the Heretikes were but ten ) because each partie by change and multiplication of names , may alter his summons ; as by your late example to be called * * The Proclamation against Garnet . Garnet , aliâs Wally , aliâs Darcey , aliâs Farmer , aliâs Philips : and so , like an Indiuiduum vagum , in infinitum . But I dispute .

Those who both doctrinally and practically apply the lawes and censures of Excommunication , proper to obstinate Heretikes , vnto the professed Protestants of all conditions , do thereby manifest that all professed Protestants be , in their opinion , obstinate Heretikes . But all Romish Priests and Iesuites do apply the sentences and censures , which they hold to be proper to Heretikes , and truly excommunicate , against all sorts of professed Protestants . Ergo your former Suppose can be no sufficient repose for any Protestants to relye vpon .

The Minor proued by Popish 1. Councels , 2. Bulles , 3. Doctors .

First , the Councell of Trent in their generall Anathema : for b b Maior Excommunicatio multis priuat bonis , eâque de causa absolutè dicitu● Excommunicatio , & sole● let Graeco verbo exprimi , sc. Anathema : quasi seorsim positus , & separatus a c●m●…unione fidelium . Aduerte igitur quòd Anathema non differt ab Excommunicatione maiori , quoad vinculum , sed tantùm quoad solennitatem . Tole . Ies. instruct . Sace . lib. 1. cap. 5. Anathema ( saith your Cardinall and Iesuite ) is to be numbred in the great Excommunications : signifying a separation from the Communion of the faithfull . Whome did they intend to excommunicate in their some hundred Anathema's ? Was it not the Protestants ? Whereof there can be no better Interpreter then Vega , c c Fuit Vega vir eruditus , & in Primarijs Gonc . Tridentini Theologis , Doctorum iudicijs , numeratus , & in eius Conc. expositione studiosèversatus . Canis . Ies. Praef. in libro Veg● de Justificat . A man ( as your Iesuite saith ) very learned , and reckened among the chiefe Diuines in the Councell of Trent : who afterwards performed good diligence in the expounding of that Councel . This Vega answering Cal●in in one point , saith , d d Non paucis vos omnes ( Protestantes intelligi● ) Synodus ferijt Anathematis . Vega lib. 15 , de Iustif . cap. 23. The Councell of Trent hath pierced you all with many Anathema's .

Secondly , the Popes Buls .

The Bull of Pope Vrban against Protestants in this forme : e e Statuimus itaque sancientes vt Haeretici omnes quocunque nomine censeantur , vbicunque per imperium damnati fuerint , animaduersione debita puniantur . Volentes vt de Imperi , finibus haereticae labis germina modis omnibus deleantur . Constit . Vrban . 4. Cap. 2. § Statuimus , & § Siverò . We decree that all Heretikes within the Empire , by what name soeuer they be called , be punished , and that by all meanes they be rooted out . The Bull of Pope Paulus 3. against King Henry the eight : the forme : f f Praeterea sub Excommunicationis poenamandamus , ne vllus Princeps Christianus dicto Henrico Regi Angliae , eius nominis octauo , aut eius fautoribus , directe vel indirectè sub praetextu confederationum & obligationum quarumcunque etiam iuramento aut quauis alia firmitate roboratarum : quas omnes confoederationes atque obligationes factas absoluimus , & sanciendas sub eadem poena prohibemus . Insuper Principibus praedictis , alijsue quibuscunque personis in virtute sanctae obedientiae mandantes , vt aduersus Regem Henricum eiusue fautores , dum in erroribus praedictis permanserint , armis insurgant , eosue & eorum singulos persequantur , & ad obedientiam Sedis Apostolicae redire cogant , & nostris mandatis non obtemperantes , ex regnis & dominijs suis expellant ; & vbicunque eos inuenerint , bona eorum mobilia immobiliáque quaecunque possint , capiant . Bulla Pauli tertij lib. Constit . Papal . de Pauli 3. Bulla cap. 2. We , vnder the paine of Excommunication , commaund , that no Prince Christian entertaine any league or couenants with this King , or any of his followers , or fauourers whomsoeuer : but that euery one of any condition do take armes against them , thereby to compell them to the obedience of the see of Rome . What was their principall Error ? g g Quia pestilentem Lutheranorum haeresin amplectitur , & omni crudelitatis genere in Catholicos bacchatur , induratissimus Pharao . Petrus Math. Com. in eam Bullam . Because they embraced the Lutheran heresie . The third . The Bull of Pope Sixtus Quintus against all Protestants , whom , as though they differed in substance of Religion in substantiall points , he therefore repeateth in diuers names . The forme : h h Nos excommunicamus & anathematizamus quoscunque Vssitas , Lutheranos , Zwinglianos , Hugonottos , & alios Haereticos quocunque nomine nuncupentur , ipsorumue receptatores , & generaliter quoslibet defensores , & libros eorum ●ine authoritate nostra scienter quomodolibet legentes a●t tenentes , imprimentes seuquomodolibet defendentes , ex quauis causa publicè vel occultè quouis ingenio vel colore . Constit . Sixti quinti cap. 13. We excommunicate and anathematize all Hussits , Caluinists , Lutherans , Zwinglians , Hugonots , and all other that receiue or fauoitr them , by what name soeuer they be called ; and generally whosoeuer shall either publikely or priuately reade , print , or defend their bookes not licenced first by our authoritie ▪ This is the Bull ; can any Protestant now escape his hornes ? Nay , but that we may know that these are those Excommunications , which are à lure ( as they tearme them ) i i Excommunicatio a iure huiusmodi est quae perpetuo statuto lata est , quaeue semper valet , etiamsi admonitio nulla praecedat . Felicianus Epis● . E●chir . de Censuris . cap. 9. Talem dicimus Bullam Coenae Domini , quae ( vt patet ex forma ipsius Bullae ) duratura ●rat donec à Pontisice alio reuocaretur . Ibid. cap. 16. Forma eius huiusmodi fuit , Nos excommunicamus omnes & singulos Lutheranos & Calninistas , &c. Ibid. cap. 14. Which is such a kind of Excommunication as doth continue after the death of the maker , and is in force though there be no admonition thereof giuen . Such is the Bull called Bulla Coenae , excommunicating Lutherans , and Caluinists all and euery one . This Bull all * * Tolet. Ies. Instruct . lib. 1. cap. 19. Alphons . de Castro de punit . Haeret. lib ▪ 1. cap. 7. Tu●recrem . lib. 4. part. 2. cap 21. Azor. Ies. Instit. Moral . lib. 8. cap. 15. Sayr de Casib . Consc. lib. 1. cap. 9. § 13. Cunerus de O●●ic . Princ. cap. 9. Iesuites and Romish Priests haue alwaies inforced vpon all Protestants of their times . Seeing therefore that these Buls runne vpon Protestants so madly , as that ( according to their tenor ) they anathematize all Lutherans and Caluinists with all their fauourers whomsoeuer , to be subiect to censures due to Heretikes , whatsoeuer , and to be inflicted vpon them by meanes howsoeuer : can you secure All , or any one Protestant , that he is ( in the opinion of the Popes ) no Heretike , or not excommunicate ? But because in modestie you would seeme to fauour his Maiestie , as being no formall Heretike in your opinion ; we must intreate you to driue away three other Buls , which do violently assault him : k k Qui terminârunt quòd non solùm Insideles ad regnum sunt inhabiles , sed etiam Haeretico , e●si improptiè Haeretico sint : vt Greg 2. Clem. 5. Bomfacius 8. Isidor ▪ Mosco●… . de maiest . milit. Eccles. lib. 2. Part. 1. cap. 2. pag. 657. Three Popes ordaining , that no Heretike , though improperly an Heretike , shall be capable of a Crowne . From Pope we may descend to

Popish Doctors .

I may euince my former Assertion from the effects proper to persons excommunicate : which ( as your Doctors do define ) are of diuers kinds : wherein we must make bold with you to iustifie Protestants in despite of all Popish aduersaries .

The first .

The first censure is , a a Vna Haereticorum poena est ●…a , vt Haeretici appellentur . Az●● . Ies. Inst●t lib. 8. cap. 13. § Septima . Infamie to be cal'ed Heretikes . But your Popes haue censured them * Heretikes : and your Popish Authors call them b b Rhemists vpon Ephes. 4. 29. An adulterous generation of Heretikes : and c c Rhemists vpon Joh. 2. 19. Very Antichrists , d d Haeretici , Ranae Aegyptiacae , incircumcisi Philistaei . Canis . I●s . Epist. ante lib. Vegae de Ius●ificat . Heretikes , Aegiptian frogges , and vncircumcised Philistims . And e e Gygantes 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . F●uardent . lib. qui si● inscrib●…r 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Gyants sighting against God . f f Audaces , astuti , factiosi Haeretici . Staplet . Com. in Act. Impudent , subtill , and sactious Heretikes : g g Nullus profectò Haereticus vnquam fuit , aut es●e possit , si illi non sunt Haeretici . Maldon . I●s . Com. in Mat. 13. For who is if these be not Heretikes ? h h Quos Haereticos Catholici nunc maiori odio , quàm Gentes , prosequuntur , quia periculosius est cum his quam cum Mahometanis agere . Maldon Ies. Com. in Ioh. 4. Which Heretikes all Catholikes now hate more then Infidels , holding it more dangerous to dwell with them , then Mahometans . * * Bellarm●l olet . B●zius , Valentia , Allane , Creswell , &c. They are , &c. But a whole Volume would not serue me only to recompt the name Heretike , and Arch-heretike repeated almost thousands of times in most of the Volumes of Priests and Iesuits . But cease your blasphemies you sonnes of Shimei , and reuile not Protestant Princes the Annointed of God , for this is a certaine truth , Protestants are no Heretikes .

The second .

The second Censure is to be denounced i i Poena Haereticorum est dici Anathema , quae est separatio a communione fidelium . Toletus Iesuita instruct . lib. 1. cap. 5. Quae vox ( ●t Hie●onymus exponi● ) est maled●ctus . Vega lib. 15. de Iustificat . Anathema , signifying a separation from the faithfull communion by a spirituall curse . From which ariseth , k k Ab Haereticis non solùm quia excommunicati , sed quia Haeretici , Sacramenta recipere prohibemus : quia Haeretici omni iurisdictione ca●ent , vt docet Thomas . Azor. Ies. Inst. Mor. lib. 8. cap. 10. § Septimò . Not admitting any communion in their Sacraments : l l Haeretici a Sacramentis arcentur . Al●hons . de punit . Haeret. lib. 1. & Azor. Instit. cap. 10. Nor permitting them ours : m m Ob Haeresin quilibet in rebus diuinis euitandus est . Azor. idid . § Primò . But vtterly excluding them from all diuine Seruice : n n Et publicis Ecclesiae precibus priuatur . T●let . lib. 1 Instruct . Saccrd . And depriuing them of the ayde of publike prayers . Hearken now therefore you Priests of Trent , Who haue p●erced Protestants with so many Anathema's : feare you the path of Balaam , and know that cursed are your curses against Protestants , as Heretikes , for this is a Catholike defence : Protestants are no Heretikes .

The third .

The third and last o o Poena Haereticorum est capitis supplicium . Azor. quosupra cap. 13. Is to put them to death : p p Poena Haereticorum est pri●atio sepulturae , specialiter in Haereticos constitut● , posteà irrogata in omnes excommunicatos Azor. Ies . ibid. And after death to denie them Christian buriall , a punishment first ordained as proper to Heretikes . Wherefore you Conspirators , in that which you call q q in●ra . Holy league , r r Infra part. 2. Butchers of twenty thousand Protestants in one moneth : and you Officers ordained hereunto , namely , Inquisitors of Hereticall impietie ; but impiously vrging one newly inuented Article of your Creed , s s Nostri Inquisitores haereticae prauitatis iurisdictionem suam , in Pontificum Decretis fundatam , crudelissimè exercent ; non aliud quaerendo expostulantes , quàm si credat in Romanam Ecclesiam : quòdsi quis opinionem suam ex sacris Scripturis defendere conetur , cùm Haereticis ( inquiunt ) non Scripturis sed igne & fasciculis decertandum esse . Maior erat Ecclesiae veteris mansuetudo , Haereticos per Scripturas conuincendi . Cornelius Agrippa lib. d● vanit . Scient. cap. 96. To beleeue ( as saith your Doctor ) in the Romish Church , answering them onely with fire and faggots , who maintaine their cause by ( the fire of the holy Ghost ) the word of God ; howle and crie in the foresight of Gods wrath , who will reuenge the bloud of his seruants : for this is a conclusion to be held of all Catholikes : Protestants are no Heretikes . But let vs ( if it please you ) conclude this point .

The Conclusion of the modest Answerer .

t t Cap. 2. § Thus I haue . Thus haue I proued at large , as my violent and distressed leasure would giue me allowance , that the chiefest building of all these slanders against vs is ruinate and ouerthrowne : that we do not esteeme all Protestants for Heretikes , and excommunicate , as he pretendeth ; neither that they are subiect to such penalties as he alledgeth .

The Reply .

Thus haue you prooued your selfe a distressed , or rather desperate Answerer ; and such an one as may be thought rather vinolently then consideratly to haue vndertaken this taske . Notwithstanding as Caiphas u u A mente mala vera verba prophetiae protulit , ore eiu● vsa est gratia , cor contaminatum non tetigit . August . Did deliuer a good sentence with an euill mind : yet must we thinke that the spirit of grace might vse his tongue , which neuer touched his corrupt heart , saith Saint Augustine . So you , though in your mind you gaine say that which with your pen you publish , yet will we acknowledge grace in your pen , and leaue the spirit of dissimulation to your equiuocating mind , and with good consciences concurre with you in this conclusion , Protestants are no Heretikes .

Thus haue we bene beholden vnto you for your answere , Protestants are no Heretikes : Not that we care to be called Heretikes of you , so long as we defending the Apostolike truth , are taught by the Apostle how to answere , [ * * Act. 24. 14. After that way which you call heresie , so worship we God . ] Yet because it is comfortable to the arraigned , when against many crying , * * Luc. 23. He is a seducer , crucifie him , one iudicially shall stand vp and say , * * vers. 4. I find no fault in the man , and stop the mouth of the blasphemous and murdrous . Notwithstanding you are taught by this parenthesis of the Apostle [ That which you call heresie ] to acknowledge truly with your fellowes , that you call them Heretikes , whom so often you falsely call heretikes , yet one thing I mislike much in you .

The moderate Answerer .

x x Answere ibid. Thus is his chiefest building of sclanders against vs ruinate .

The Reply .

O ( good Sir ) you might haue learned this good by others late euils , to take heed you intermedle not in ruinating of buildings .

CHAP. VI.

Hitherto haue we only confirmed our Antecedent , namely , That Protestants in the common censure of Papists , are esteemed Heretikes : It remaineth we now disable your consequent following .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answere Cap. 2. initio . HIs Assumption being ruinate , that Protestants are not esteemed of vs Heretikes , or Excommunicate : it followeth , that no positions , which we maintaine , are rebellious ; because he telleth vs that all such are built vpon this Assumption .

The Reply .

Which [ It followeth ] wanteth feet to follow , because there be two other reasons to prooue your doctrine rebellious . The first from the effects we see ; the second from another principle of doctrine , which you generally maintaine .

The first . He that looketh vpon a goodly building , though he be deceiued in the foundation ( which is the cause ) whether it be a rock , or artificiall worke ; whether wooll or stone , because it is couered in the earth : yet can he not be ignorant in the building it selfe , which he beholdeth in the cleare sunne . Whether therefore I might mistake the cause of your rebellions , as not to discerne whether it be in the Protestants scisme , or heresie , or in your selues ( whereof I make no question ) malice , couetousnes , or triple-crowned pride : yet when we shew these your positions , as it were turrets of your Babell : No Protestant may be elected a King , being inthronized must be excommunicate , and deposed , and being hopelesse to be reclaimed during life , must be violently cut off by sudden death . Neither this only , but All Protestant Magistrates and people , and their fauorers are subiect to like censures , their kingdome is to be inuaded , and themselues expelled : Reason teacheth vs to iudge from these doctrines of the effects to the doctrine of the cause , and iustly to esteeme them rebellious .

The second reason ; though they be not yet excommunicated or censured Heretikes by your Pope , yet is this but durante beneplacito , or as in the Councell of Trent , [ b b Concil. Trid. ●ess . 15. Saluus conductus datus Protestantibus . &c. Pro hac vice saluus conductus : ] Protestants shall haue safe conduct for this time . Marke here your Censurers , Only during the time of the Councell Protestants must be safe . Plainely signifying that they accounted Protestants heretikes before iudgement ; and not that only , but before iudgement also ( praeiudicium autem tollit iudicium ) against common rule of iustice had resolued to accompt them Heretikes euer after . As our borderers to them they haue in deadly feud , if peraduenture they find them at their owne house , will giue kind entertainement , yea and defend them from violence , but after they be dismissed , saying , only for this time , do honestly giue them a watch-word euer after to looke to their owne safety . And this your selfe will tell vs , for * * Infra Cap. 13. His holinesse ( say you ) sent lately a iubet of obedience , and prohibet of disobedience in behalfe of our King , therein not obscurely confessing , that if the Pope shall turne his style of iubemus , then will you also turne your pikes of paremus ; and what then but rebellion ? * * Infra . Then no dutie to King , Magistrates , husbands , wiues , creditors , fathers , children ; but among all conditions of Protestants hellish confusion . Thinke you so to babish the wisdome of our State , as not Ianus-wise to looke as well before them as behind ? No , for when they remember what hath bene * * Vide suprae cap. 5. & Infra . Kings and Queenes English excommunicate by the Pope , and assaulted by secret treasons , and open inuasions by his instigations ; they well know that there is no safe repose in an arbitrary power of excommunication : but being warded by Gods hand from your last mischiefe , will so prouide , as not to lye open to a second terrible blow . And thus our building ( if our former foundation should haue failed ) by these two reasons might be sufficiently supported . Thus much in defence of our Assumption . We proceed to the confirmation of our seuerall reasons .

CHAP. VII .

The discouery in the first Reason in the Maior .

THey who by their slanderous doctrine make all Protestants ( in their common opinion Heretikes ) so odious , as vnworthie of any ciuill or naturall societie , must necessarily be iudged seditious and intollerable amongst the Protestants .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Cap. 2. § Now will . My answere is absolute before , that no learned Catholike reputeth the Protestants , or any one Protestant of this Kingdome an Heretike .

The Reply .

And my Reply hath alreadie passed to incounter your Answere , shewing that you by this your Answere haue made your greatest Doctors of all kinds Friers , Iesuites , Cardinals , Popes , yea Councels not only no learned Catholikes , but euen no Catholikes ; but ( as they be ) impious traducers , iniurers , murtherers of Protestants , no heretikes , for heresie : for which Answere made to vs how you may answere them , you may deliberate .

The Discouerie in the Minor .

But the Romish Seminaries and Iesuites do brand all Protestants with detestable crimes , thereby to denie them of all ciuill , or naturall respects . Ergo

The Minor hath two parts , both proued , Crimes slanderously obiected . All humane societie detracted .

The first part proued .

First a Stranger saith , that b b Protestantes articulum omninò nullum tenent symboli Apostolici Audraeas Iurgi●ici●… lib. III. Euang. quinti Proses●ores . Protestants beleeue not one article of the Apostles Creed . Our countryman more strangely : * * Wright in his late booke of Articles . Protestants haue no faith , no Religion , no Christ , but are meere Infidels . The Master of the Seminarie at Rhemes writeth , and entituleth his booke c c En Caluini Turcismum , & plane Mahometismum . Reinald . in lib qui inscribitur , Caluinoturci●mus . Caluinish Turcisme , and pla●…e Mahometisme . Which booke Deane Gifford doth no lesse impudently then impotently maintaine , saying , that d d Calui●… pseudo euangelium Alcorano esle in nullo melius , in multis te●●iu● & flagitiosius . D Gifford russian . D. Petri , pr●f . in lib. D. Keinaldi . Caluins doctrine is worse then the Alcoran of the Turks . The Iesuit e e Institu● Protestantium Atheismos explicate &c. Possiuin . Ies. lib●llo de Atheismis Protest . Possiuinus with the same spirit of blasphemie doth compile a booke , wherein he calleth Protestants doctrines , concerning Christ , meere Atheismes . And all to this end , that all humane societie with Protestants may be vtterly dissolued .

The moderate Answerer .

* * Answere Cap. 2. § Therefore . This is no more then other Protestants charge Caluine , and such like with : as first the Deane and Colledge of Tubinge , writing a booke of this subiect , giueth it for a title , Fundamentorum Caluinianae sectae cum veteribus Arianis & Nestorianis communium detectio .

The Reply .

That which they did in the spirit of opposition , and contention , is not much to be regarded ; especially , seeing ( as it may seeme by their obiections ) their iudgement hath beene depraued by your malignant Doctors . For first concerning Arianisme , f f Heresin Arianorum Caluinus docet , vbi dicit Patrem esse per excellentiam Deus . Bellar . lib. de notis Eccles. Cap. 6. § Ariani & pref. contro . de Christo . § Sed iam. Greg. Valent. lib. 1. de Vnitate & Trin. Cap. 9. Armand●…s Ies. epist. ad Cami●… . Possiuinus Ies. de notis diuini verbi . lib. 3. pag. 78. Caluine ( saith your Iesuites ) doth plainely teach Arianisme , saying , that the Father is by a kinde of excellencie God . Whereas both the speach and sence is most orthodoxall , and agreeing with the tenor of holy writ , and iudgement of all ancient Fathers , as your owne learned Iesuits confesse . For the words of our Sauiour are plaine , g g Apud Ioh. 14. [ Pater maior est me . ] Quidam ratione diuinitatis Pat●… dici censent , non ratione substantiae , sed ratione originis : & hanc expositionem sequuntur illustres Doctores , inter quos Athanas . Nazianz Hilar Orig. Tollet ▪ Ies . Com. in Ioh. 14. Etiam Epiphanius , Leont . Cyrill . Theoph. Euthym. Maldonat . Ies. in eundem locum . Ioh. 14. [ My Father is greater then I : ] in the true sence , Is , ( say your Iesuits , and truly ) The Father is greater not in substance and being , but by reason of Birth & begetting . For their Authority they produce an inquest of Fathers of free Caluine in this point : who was so far from Arianisme , that your own Bellarmine doth acknowledge that h h Arianos Caluinus impugnauit Bellar. lib. de not Eccles. Cap. 9. § Primum erro●em . Vid● plenius sp●●su●… Apolog. Cathol. part . 1. Cap. 31. Caluine did impugne the doctrine of the Arians . Your Iesuites likewise impute i i Bellar. lib. de notis Eccles. Cap 9. Valent Ies. Tom. 4 ▪ Disp. 1. q 2. punct. 2. Nestorianisme : whereof Caluine doth free himselfe saying , k k Procul abigédus est Nestorij error , qui Christi naturam distrahere potius , q●…m distingue●e volebat , Script●râ clarâ voce reclamante &c. Caluin●● I●st●t . de ●oc articulo , [ Natus ex Virgine ] Vide de hoc plura Apolog. Cath part . 1. Cap. 43. We must therefore abandon the heresie of Nestorious , who rather distracted then distinguished the nature of Christ , against the doctrine of the holy Ghost in Scripture . It would therefore become your modestie , to haue omitted these imputations : but we shall find your moderation immoderate in this kind .

The moderate Answerer .

l l In the place aboue . § I will . I will next bring in Master Hugh Broughton , a man greatly commended by Master Willet , who telleth the Bishops of England that their translation of the Scripture is corrupt ; and that Christianitie is denyed here in England .

The Reply .

Master Broughton ( which I am able truly to witnes ) was as greatly commended and reuerenced for his learning among your greatest Iesuits at Mentz , and the Bishop elector there , yet he neuer allowed your Translation , but debaseth it more then any other : neither did he euer go to Italy or Spaine to learne Christianitie there . How you ought to esteeme of our Translation , I haue made it elsewhere euident from your owne m m Vide Apolog. Cathol. part. 2. lib. 1. Cap 14. Romish censures , who haue giuen the translation of Tremelius as good an approbation , as any Protestant would require . Where also may appeare , by confession of your most learned Iesuites and others , the n n Ibid. Cap. 10. & deinceps . manifold deprauations of your vulgar , falsely intituled o o Ibid. Cap 8. & deinceps . S. Hieromes Translation . But what modestie can this be in you , to obiect vnto vs a man , whom you know to be sequestred from vs rather by impotencie of passion , then any difference of Religion ; liuing now among them who maintaine both the same profession , and the same Latine Translation ? so immoderate in speech ( to confesse that which all , that know him , can witnesse ) that the least error he heareth he nameth heresie , and the least opposition to his opinion , infidelitie . This is but the language of passion , which no moderate Answerer may mention to preiudice the moderate .

The very moderate Answerer .

p p Cap. 2. § The Admonition . The Admonition to the Parliament , written with no small consent , vseth these words ; That no man , in whom there is any sparke of grace , or conscience , can liue in the Church of England , whose inhabitants be all Infidels , going to the Churches of Bishops , and Arch-bishops , whose gouernement is Antichristian and diuelish .

The Reply .

This writer and you may both ioyne fellowship : You dedicate your booke to the King , he to the Parliament . He pretendeth the consent of a thousand ; you [ No Catholike will say Protestants are Heretikes , ] implie a thousand thousand : He with all his consent is not many ; and you ( for ought you well pretend ) but one , both inuisible and namelesse , neither of both able to make vp any great consent , except you multiplie the name of forenamed Aliâs A , aliâs B. &c. You see what is themaladie of this Admonitor , namely , to condemne our Religion only because of Bishops , as , in his illiterate braine , an order Popish , and therefore Antichristian . Say now , do you thinke his Admonition tollerable ? then must you ( who do defend that Bishop of Rome ) conclude your selfe an Infidell , and an Antichristian hireling . Do you thinke it immoderate ? then are you no moderate Answerer to condemne vs by that Admonition , which your selfe doth condemne . Let vs heare something else which may proue Protestants guilty of the imputation of Turcismes and Atheismes .

The very moderate Answerer .

q q Cap. 2. § Therfore first . The deniall of Christ to be God , which Master Willet and Doctor Fulke do , denying Christ to haue receiued the substance of his Father ; or that he is Deus de Deo ; God of God : as the first generall Councels defined .

The Reply .

Deny Christ to be God ? God forbid : but to be God of God only in a particular sence , this indeed they do ; but can you finde no more Protestants of this opinion ? Your r r Campian . Ies. lesuite reckneth vp Caluin and Beza ; and I thinke he saith truly : I would either he or you did as truly vnderstand them . But yet we wish to heare what your Doctors thinke of this Protestants opinion : your Campion calleth it s s Portentum . Rat. 8. § Mox . monstrous : your t t Haeresis vt refert Bellar. lib. 2. d●… Christo . Cap. 19 Genebrard , Lindan , Canisius name it Heresie : your u u Nefaria haeresis . Staplet . Prompt f●r . 3. post Domin . Pass. Stapleton and Feuardentius do aggrauate it by an epithet , Heinous heresie : your x x Caluini Atheismus . Possiuin . Ies. lib. 3. de notis verbi Dei . ca. 74. Possiuinus noteth it of Atheisme : and your y y Blasphemie . Annot. in Joh. 1. vers. 1. Colledge at Rhemes of Blasphemie . And now , belike , this is that doctrine which deserueth your generall clamors , which being examined with the eye not ouercast with the web of preiudice , z z Dum rem ipsam excutio , non facilè audeo pronunciare illos in errore fuisse : quia non videntur velle negare filium esse à Pa●… sed essentiam genitam esse negant . Quae sententia non video cur Catholica dicenda non sit . Bellar. lib. 2. de Christo. Cap. 19. Doth ( in the iudgement of your famous Bellarmine ) seeme Catholicall : because they denie not the Sonne to be from the Father ; but they denie the essence of the godhead to haue any generation . This likewise is not the part of common modestie , to blind-fold your selfe , and strike you know not whom .

To the former inuectiues I must adde another of the same die , euen deepe black mallice : a a Speculamini Angliam , non iam Catholicorum , sed Anthropophagorum , & immanium Cyclopum Insulam reperietis nulla n● minima quidem vestigia his terrarum partibus fidei Catholicae superesse . Lodouic . de Orleanc . pag. 48. Looke vpon England ( saith your french Rabsacah ) and you shal find it to be an I le of men , who eate mens flesh , and who haue not among them ( yet they professe Iesus Christ and the Apostles creed ) the least footstep to Catholike Religion . This we see written , which giueth vs cause to beleeue that which is reported by our Trauellers , who affirming , that in our last Embassage into Spaine , the people there gazed vpon our English Nobles and Gentlemen with that eye which Pope Gregory a thousand yeares since beheld them , when they were Pagans ; and admiring the comely feature of their personages , and the fairenes of their complexions , asked b b Quaerens cuiates essent negotiatores quidam Britanni , & audiens Anglos fuisse : Bene , inquit , Angli , quasi Angeli ; sed proh dolor quàm splendidas facies Princeps tenebrarum nunc possidet ! Who they were , and hearing they were named English , they may well be called Anglish , ( quoth he ) as it were Angels But , alas , what faire faces doth the vgly feend and Prince of darknesse now possesse ? Thus the vulgar in Spaine are said in their Christian charitie to haue bewailed the miserie of the English , Alas , that these men haue not the knowledge of Christ ! Being perswaded by their Monkes that we worship the diuels , which is more probable by their writings , as , c c Caluinistae furentes detestantur Christum Dominum nostrum . Pintus in cap. 3. Dan. Caluinists are Heretikes detesting our Lord Christ . d d Caluiniana haeresis est Sarecenismo & Paganismo detestabilior . Reinaldus in Rosaus . Caluinish heresie is more detestable then the Religion of Turkes and Paganes . What is this else then to dissolue all communion with Protestants ?

CHAP. VIII .

The Discouerie in the second part of the Minor .

1. In Neigbors .

a a Haereticis licitum est auferri quae habent ; melius tamen est quòd authoritate Iudicis fiat . Decretum Papale apud Gratian. Caus. 15 q. Glossa . NEighbors , if Heretikes , may lawfully be spoiled of their goods ( by force : ) though it be better to be taken from them by authority .

2. In Parishioners .

Where the question is concerning paying of Tithes , it is resolued : b b Non est dubium quin populus Catholicus iure posset haereticos Pastores Decimis defraudare . Alanus Card. & Parsonus . Parishioners may lawfully defraud Protestant Ministers of their Tithes .

3. In Debtors , and whosoeuer haue any matter of trust committed vnto them .

c c Is apud quem Haereticus aliquid deposuerit non tenebitur post manifestam haeresin rem depositam illi reddere . Simancha Instit. Cathol. Tit. 46. Sect. 73. Such are not bound to restore that which they haue receiued , or to satisfie their Creditors , who are Heretikes . d d Non tenentur reddere rem verbis contractam . Tolet. Jes . instruct . Sacerd. de Excom. They are not bound thereunto . * * Si iuraui me soluturum alicui pecuniam , qui excommunicatur , non teneor exsoluere : quia qualitercunque possumus debemus venare malos , vt cessent à malo . Apud Grat. Caus. 15. q. 6. Glossa . This is an ancient Decree .

4. In Seruants .

f f Custodes arcium , & caeteri Vasalli eâdem constitutione liberati sunt à vinculo Sacramenti , quo Dominis sidelitaté promiserant . Simancha Episc. quo supra sect. 74. Also keepers of forts , and all other vassals and slaues are freed from the oath of subiection to their Lords .

5. In Wiues .

g g Quinetiam vxor Catholica viro haeretico debitum reddere non tenetur . Simancha in instit Greg. 13. dicatis , & eius iussu Romae impressis . Wiues are not bound to render due beneuolence to their Husbands , if Heretikes .

6. In Parents .

h h Pater , qui filium habet haereticum , qui conuerti non velit , si pater liber & sui iuris esset ad disponendum de bonis suis vt vellet , tenetur exhaereditare filium talem . Huc adiunge . Parentes mortaliter peccant tradendo filias matrimonio Haereticis Card. Allanus . The father must disinherite his sonne , if he will be a Protestant .

7. In Children .

i i Sacerdos in Angliam reuersus , & rogatus de parentibus , qui sunt Haeretici , respondere possit & veraciter negare eos sibi esse parentes , intelligendo quales habere debeat : quia Patres solent respuere filios propter Religionem & silij Parentes . Allanus & Parsonus . A Priest returning into England , if his father be a Protestant , he may denie him to be his father : meaning that he is not such an one , as he ought to acknowledge his father . k k Nam propter haeresin patris filij sunt sui iuris . Simancha quo supra . Tit. 46 Sect. 74. For by the heresie of the father the child is freed from obedience .

8. In all Kindred .

l l Haeretici filij vel consanguinei non dicuntur , sed iuxta Legem , Sit manus tua super eos , vt sundas sanguinem ipsorum . Apud Grat. Glos . in Decret. lib. 5. ex Greg. 9. Ca●s . 23. q. 8. Cap. Legi . Heretikes may not be termed either Children or Kindred , but according to the old law , Thy hand must be against them to spill their bloud .

9. In Natiues .

m m Si Ciuitas tota , vel maior pars sit haeretica , potest ille negare hanc esse suam patriam●intelligendo , quòd haereticam non habeat loco patriae . Card , Alan . & Parsonus . If any find his natiue Citie to be most part infected with heresie , he may denie it to be his Countrey .

Finally , by n n Iuxta Constitutiones Greg. 9 Haereticus priuatur omni dominio naturali , ciuili , politico . Simancha Jastit . Tit. 46 Sect. 74. Pope Gregorie his Constitutions ; By heresie a man is depriued of all his iurisdiction , whether naturall , ciuill , or politike . So that the tenor of the oath of the Leaguers in Fraunce is this : o o Si vnquam ad Haereticorum partes deflexero , ●i amicitiam , si foedus , si matrimonium cum ijs faxo , si opem fidemue do , si Aue , si Vale dixero , illa die fulmine ferito . Ledouicus de Orleance Part. 29. If euer I make mariage , vse trafficke , yeeld ayde , hold friendship , giue credence vnto Heretikes , or once salute them ; then let God confound me . Shall we call this Religion which dissolueth the dutie of Seruants , Subiects , Debitors , and strangleth the vitall spirits of humane societie ? and by not acknowledgement of naturall duties of Wedlocke , naturall Parents , natural Children , naturall Countrey , doth bowell vp nature , as it were , and depriue men of humanitie it selfe ? O Babylon ! to proue this in all particulars were needlesse ; one kind may satisfie .

Practise .

The Papists in France did libell against p p Henricum 3. haereticum , homicidam , &c. Lib. de iusta Abd●cat . Henr. 3. Henry the third as hereticall , a manslayer : so likewise against this Henry the fourth , callinghim a q q Henricum 4. Culinarem canem , pogonarum lulianum , bipedum nequissimum , foetidum Satanae stercus . Lod. de Orleance . Kitchin-dogge , long-bearded Iulian , most heathenish Apostate , and the very excrement of Satan . No lesse was the rank or of our Cardinall Poole against his Soueraigne , r r Si Caesarem intellexerim cùm omn● sua classe aduersus Turcam cursum dirigere , acsi iam Hellesponti fauces tenentem conspicerem , nunquam acquiescerem donec conuenitē , & in haec verba apud eum prorumperem : Caesar , quò par●… ? quid cogitas ? Si amor Reip. Christianae te mouet , vt Rego Turcarum , antiquum Christians nominis hostem aggrediare annon vnde maius periculum Reip. Christianae imminet , & vbi nou●s hostis viget , multò quàm Turea infestior , eò potiùs cursum conuertere oportet ? viz in Angliam , cu●us semen adulterinum vix à Turcaico internosci possit ? Card. Poole ad Henric. 8. pro vnit . Eccles. defens . lib. 3. pag. 384. Desirous to diuert the Emperors forces from the Pagans , and to inforce them vpon Henry the 8. as vpon an enemie more pernicious then the Turke .

The modest Answerer .

s s Cap. 2. § The rest . Those penalties this Author alledgeth as belonging to the Excommunicate , and such Heretikes , as spoiling them of their goods , denying Tithes ; I answer , that these Societies of neighbors wiues , and such like are not to be denied to the Protestants in England , because we do not esteeme them in the case of Heretikes ; againe , we performe these communications and respects aswell to our Country Protestants , as they themselues . Lastly , I answer that those penalties mentioned were not of purpose ordained against Protestants , but Decrees against Heretikes of those times , and not now in vse in France , Heluetia , Sweueland , Denmarke , and most part of Germanie . And if the penall Constitutions of the Councell of Trent are not yet after 40. yeares continuance receiued into those recited Prouinces and Kingdomes ; there is not so great feare that those Papall paines will euer giue to this man so much cause of so outragious exclamations .

The Reply .

If all your Sect would allow your Answer , we should need no clamor : for first your answer de iure , Protestants are not to be demed these duties : secondly , de facto , that You do not deny them : for confirmation of the right you inferre : that These punishments were not ordained against Protestants ; and auouching the fact , you instance in other countries , where these penalties are not in vse . Concerning the fact , let vs admit that these are performed , yet the Apostle distinguisheth of performance of dutie , & propter Iram , & propter Conscientiam ; one for feare of ciuill power , the other for conscience sake . Whether bond doth tye you to obedience the subsequents will manifest . We do likewise acknowledge that some part of those penalties were more aunciently ordained against others , and not against Protestants ; What then ? if they be now extended against Protestants ? For thus dealt the Iewes against our Lord Christ , * * 1. Pet. 2. We haue a lawe , and by that lawe he ought to die , because he hath spoken blasphemie . The law they had , was , Holy , iust , and good : but the application was their owne , vngodly , furious , and murderous ; we may herein compare Christs blasphemie , and Protestants heresie . And if your late penall Decrees of Trent be not of force in other countries , you haue giuen vs a reason , Quia vires desunt : because they want outward force . Otherwise I haue shewed that those penalties , as non-payment of Tithes , are by your * * Iohn 19. 7. Allane extended against Protestant Ministers ; of Debts , by your * * Insra . Tolet ; against Protestant Creditors ; of due beneuolence , by your * * Supra . Simancha against Protestant husbands ; of due reuerence and acknowledgement , by your * Parsons , against Protestant fathers ; of allegeance , by your * Simancha against Protestant Kings and Magistrates . And for further euidence ,

CHAP. IX .

I adde a Supplement to your former Positions .

a a His admonition to the Nobilitie and people of England . Anno 1588. pag. 41. IT is cleare ( saith Allane ) that what people and person soeuer be declared to be opposite to Gods Church , by what obligation soeuer , either of kindred , friendship , loyaltie , or subiection I be bound vnto them ; I may , or rather must take armes against them : and then must we take them for Heretikes , when our lawfull Popes adiudge them so to be . A litle after he striketh an Alarme , u u Pag. 53. Now therefore my Lords and deare Countrimen fight , &c. In the whole booke the English Clearke exhorteth now ( since the Councel of Trent ) the English gentrie to take armes against their English Soueraigne . Say now ( moderate Answerer ) will your modestie giue your face leaue to blush at this doctrine of your Cardinall ? The like trumpet of rebellion against German Protestants , after the Councell of Trent , did Frier Alphonse sound alowd : x x Licitum est Haereticos bello oppugnare , postquam de corum pertinacia constiterit , bona enim intentio est fidem Catholicam exaltare : quae fuit intentio Caroli Caesaris in bello suo aduersus , Protestantes , Germanos . Alphons . de Castro . It is lawfull to ouercome Heretikes by force of armes . As long then as we heare of such Proclamations , sounding nothing but Arma virumque : there may be reason giuen of our exclamations . But you insist .

The moderate Answerer .

y y Answer cap. 2. pag. 12. § The rest . We haue not now another Queene Marie inheretrix to the Crowne , to be ioyned in mariage with a potent Prince , symbolizing with husband , conformitie in countrie discipline : to breed scruples in this behalfe .

The Reply .

This Answer giueth vs no more securitie , then the Cat doth the Mouse , when she seemeth but to play with it : for though you haue not a Maria , yet may your Dolman haue an Infanta , or your Catesby and his Complices an Elizabetha to match , and to ouermatch also at their pleasure , making her but as a garland of flowers in a May-game , to flourish for a day or two , and then to wither and perish . And before him your Watson saw no metaphysicall he or she to succeed . But though there be no such heire apparant , yet a man by troubling the water , may thinke peraduenture to catch an Eele , and * * AEsop . in Apol. The little Flie hath power enough to set the Eagles nest on fire . I leaue the confirmation of my Discouerie , and come to the confutation of those denyed duties . It is written , * * Rom. 13. 8. Owe nothing to any man , but loue one another . And therefore that debt of Tithes which Ioseph ( as due vnto them ) payed to the Aegyptian Priests : of Debtes and due beneuolence , which was neuer denied to Infidels : of Allegeiance and Homage , which Saint Ambrose did performe to an Apostate : may not be denied to any , though in case of heresie , much lesse then to Protestants . But to conclude with your owne words , Those duties are not to be denied vnto Protestants . It were well if either you writ as you thought , or that your Doctors did thinke as you write : and so should we haue lesse cause of scruples , to feare either you or them . Let vs proceed to the second Reason .

CHAP. X.

The Discouerie in the second Reason .

MAior. Whosoeuer do professe any ciuill power soueraigne , whether directly or indirectly , are to be accounted seditious . Minor . But all Popish Priests do professe a double prerogatiue ouer Kings , Democraticall and Monarchical , namely , both of people and Pope . Both which are proued by the Positions .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 3. in initio . To the Maior . I would wish him to except the Emperor of Germanie , and such as be subiect to the Empire , and such cases : I say Transeat Maior for Christendome .

The Reply .

Why Transeat ? Do you then make all Kings in Christendome subiect to the Emperor ? I know you dare not proclaime this in b b Quae regna Regibus suis contenta , nullius dominio vnquam paruerunt . Francisc . de Victor . Relect France or Spaine . Dare you , ( who thus insinuate your selfe into grace with his Maiestie : c c Epist. Dedic . to his Maiestie . § Therefore . I , one of your Highnesse obedient subiects ) subiect your Soueraigne to a forreine State ? as namely , to the Emperor , so farre from Imperiall , that ( as one Iesuite confesseth ) d d Romanum Imperium iam ferè deletum est . Bellar. lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 2. It is almost ruinate : Yea , considered as it is called Romane Empire , e e Imperium illud Romanum iamdiu euersum est . Salmeron Ies. Com. in 2. Thess. 2. Disp. 2. § Caeterùm . It is ( as another Iesuite acknowledgeth ) long ago ( an vnfallible note of the prophecied time of * * Vide 2. Thess. 2 Antichrist ) vtterly extinct . f f Cui vix Germani ipsi obtemperant . Costerus . Whereunto ( saith your Costerus ) scarce the Germans ( whom you obiect ) do obey . Which is very true ; for , in the tenor and forme of Election and Coronation of the Emperor , you may find , as I remember , this power ascribed to the Prince Palatine Elector , that he ( as being Steward rather to the Empire , then Emperor ) may cite the Emperor to the diet of the State , and constraine him in some case to yeeld satisfaction . And therefore my Maior may still recide in Christendome .

To the Minor Proposition .

The moderate Answer is of two kinds , 1. Recrimination against Protestants . 2. Apology and defence for his owne Priests .

1. Recrimination or Accusation .

g g Answer ibid. And thus I frame my Minor . But all Protestant Writers do ordinarily teach , and practise this doctrine , as I shall proue .

The Reply .

This kind of Answer of retorting , which you call returning the Argument vpon Protestants , you vse in euery Answer : if truly , you shall proue your sinne to haue bene more common , which cannot iustifie your selues ; If vniustly , you shall but slander them and multiply your wickednesse . Which will be proued , when we come to giue the * * Vide infra in the second part . Iustification of Protestants in answering your blindfold exceptions .

The moderate Answerer in Apologizing for his fellowes .

His second Proposition is this , [ But all Popish Priests do professe a double prerogatiue ouer Kings , Democraticall or Monarchicall , namely , both people or Pope . Ergo ) This his conceit fighteth with his owne Assertion , and present Position of the Popes Monarchicall prerogatiue ouer Kings : for where there is a Monarchicall power and gouernment in one , there is an vnpossibilitie of a Democracie and Democratical power and regencie in the people : and yet this simple Disputer doth thus argue .

The Reply .

Simple I confesse , professing also that simplicitie in Christ , as neuer either in word or writing to aequiuocate . Notwithstanding your simple Disputer wisheth that he had met with so subtill an Answerer as could haue distinguished betwixt mentiri , and mendacium dicere : to lye , and to report a lye . Say : this proposition , The Pope is taught to haue a Monarchicall power ouer Kings , and people Democraticall , doth it imply contradiction ? Seeing then I onely shew , in this present reason , that your Iesuites defend both , it is an vnreasonable modestie to fauor the Autors , and inueigh against me the reporter : which I haue done iustly in both , as will appeare in due order . Be not idle , but conforme your selfe to the lawes of dispute .

The Discouerie . First , of the peoples power .

Parsons . g g Parsons in his Dolman . The Common-wealth hath authoritie to chuse a King , and to limit him lawes at their pleasure . The French Iesuite sheweth a Reason . h h Maiestas regni est in populo potius , quam in persona Regis . Ies. lib. de i●s●a Abdicat . pag. 36. For Maiestie ( saith he ) is rather seated in the Kingdome , then in the King . Like to Stapleton his Glosse . i i Non populus in Principum gratiam factus ; sed Principes in populi gratiam creati . Didymus pag. 261. Stapl. People are not ordained for the Prince ; but the Prince for the people . But more finely Reinalds . k k Rex humana creatura est , quia ab homimbus constituta . Reinald d●i● ▪ s●a authorit . pag. 8 A King is but a creature of mans creation .

The moderate Answerer .

* * Answer cap. 3. § But let . People were in the beginning without Kings , and made Election of diuers kinds of Regiments , as they thought meete and most secure for their defence : for as I haue made demonstration , and his Maiesties words in the Parliament do conclude : Although a Kingdome and people be relata , yet can he be no King if he want people and subiects .

The Reply .

This Position , People , as subiects , were before their Gouernor , doth tast too much of Machiauellisme : for in nature the birth is called prodigious , which is deliuered with heeles forward , from whence some haue receiued their names to be called Agrippa : such is this politike curse which you fancie , but remember that though , as you trulie affirme , King and subiect be relatiues , euen as Father and Sonne : yet consider them in the nature , in the reall foundation as things , and not of accidentall relation ; and then ( I hope ) you will suffer the Father to goe before the Sonne . And so Adam , as an Oecumenicall King , was before his familie ; after his decease , alwayes the right of gouernement was inuested in the first-borne , as a birth-right : so God did signifie to Caine , [ * * Gen. 4. 7. l Baldus lib. ex iure D. de just . Andr Hostensis , Pet. Ancoranus , Card. Florentinus , Panorm. Olradus , Albericus , Angelus , Felinus , Paulus Castrens . Barbatius , Fran. Curtius , Card. Alex Phil. Francus , Iason , Philippus decimus , Carolus Ruinus , Anton ▪ Corsetta , Ripa , Caldriue , Al●iat . As I finde them cited by M. Haywood in his answere against Dolman . Pag. 17. And thou Caine shalt rule ( meaning Abel ) ouer him . And that Kingdomes haue bene successiue by lawe of nations in the first-borne , is confirmed by a grand inquest of your owne 〈◊〉 Lawyers : not that wee denie Election of people to haue bene vpon necessitie vsuall ; but so to magnifie the power of a people electing , as to continue still Soueraigne ouer the Prince elected , this is that which we call a position rebellious : the very intent of your forenamed Authors , making regall power to be from the common-wealth , but as m m Parsons in his Dolman . pag. 73. Potest as vicaria & delegata : delegate and by commission ; to this end , that establishing the peoples dominion , they may vse them at their assignement for the subuersion of the King , as their places alledged do manifest , and is yet more amplie auouched by another Iesuite , saying , that n n Si quis Rex fieret Christianus , & Catholicus , & postea fiat haereticus , aut Apostata ; ratio exigit vt inter Catholicos populos a regni administratione re●ou●atur : & hoc iure , quia protestas prius in populo est quàm in rege ; & a populo in Regem deriuatur . Salm. les . in epist. Pauli , in Gen. Disp. 12. § ●a●… de . If any King Catholike shall prooue an Heretike , it is reason for the people to depose him : because this power is in the people , which is deriued vnto the King from the people . This is that position which we called rebellious , and yet behold Abyssus abyssum inuocat ; one depth of rebellious disloyaltie , in deposing , doth drawe one another of crueltie , in murthering their Kings , where the French yeeldeth them o o In populo est potestas vitae & necis , Autor de iu●●a Abdicat . pag. 33. Power of life and death ouer their Soueraigne . To ouerthrow this many-headed beast , by weapons borowed from your owne men .

The Confutation .

There is one honest Frier that dare aduenture to light a candle to discouer the murderous : for speaking of the power of and by Election , p p Nemo potest ●e Regem facere . sed populus Regem eligit ; sed Rex iam factus & constitutus , non potest populus iugum à cer●●ce sua repellere : populi voluntas in necessitatem conue●titur . Roiardus Dominic . 1. Aduent . Though there be ( saith he ) in the people a freedome of Election , yet after they haue chosen their King , they haue no more power to remoue the yoke , but stand in necessitie of subiection . This man was but a Frier , and therefore peraduenture in your Synods may not haue any definitiue sentence , q q Bellar. which ( you say ) is proper to Bishops . Here is therefore ( one of this order ) Bishop Cunerus , who from the holie writ doth mainely impugne your former assertion , r r Quidam putant Regum autoritatem , solùm explac●to & consensu pendere subditorum , qui Principes eligunt , vel re●ipiunt : caeterum B. Apostoli , qui spiritu scrutabatur profunda Dei , longè altiùs potestatis eorum originem ac fundametum er●●nt . &c. Cune●us lib. de Ossic . Princip. Cap. 5. Some there be ( saith he ) who imagine that the authoritie of Princes dependeth vpon the courtesie of people , as to thinke that they , who gaue consent to choose Kings , haue likewise now a power to depose them : But the blessed Apostles , who by the holie Ghost were inabled to search the mysteries of God , haue more profoundly enquired into the foundation of the state and autoritie of Kings . * Saint Peter ( saith he ) entering into this argument , doth thus admonish Christians . Be ye subiect vnto the ordinance of man , whether to the King , as to the more excellent , or his messengers sent from him ; to the punishment of wicked , and praise of the godly : so is the will of God as free , and not as hauing libertie as a cloake of maliciousnes , but as the seruants of God . And S. Paul , * * 1. Pet. 2. There is no power but of God ; and whosoeuer resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of God &c. From whence he inferreth , Though all meanes whereby Kings come to the Crownes be not commanded of God , yet whatsoeuer meanes they vse , whether by Election , Succession , or inuasion , whensoeuer they are by consent of the Kingdome once established , this is the ordinance of God : and henceforth he , as sent from God , is to rule , and people to obey ; the Apostle saying of the people , * * Rom. 13. 1. It is necessary to be subiect . This witnesse your selfe called for , saying , [ * * Ans●●r supra Cap. 4. As saith Cu●erus , ] so I , thus saith Cunerus . You may not in equitie refuse him . For this was iustice in the Gouernor , when S. Paule said , [ * * Act. 25. vers. 11. and 12. I appeale to Caesar , to answere , And to Caesar shalt thou goe . Yet if he be not sufficient , behold a Iesuite will pleade our cause , s s

Quamuis Principes subinde non admodum boni sunt , & humanis saepè medijs vel artibus principatum obtineant , nihil tamen horum Apostoli Christianos attendere voluerunt , sed ordinationem Dei , per quam potestatem habent , non quod semper media , quibus facti sunt reges , à Deo fiant , sed quòd à Deo or dinentur : ita vtquicunque sublimiori potestate praefulget , huic ex voluntate & ordinatione Dei competit autoritas , qua subditis potest imperare , & cui subditi parere tenentur . vt licet medijs humanis , nempè , contractibus vel electione , vel postulatione , vel successione , vel quacunque regni consensione , vel iure belli , vel simili ratione Princeps fiat , Principi tamen nunc facto haec diuinitùs potestas adest , & competit autoritas , quasi ipso Deo regnum & potestatem illi dante , & populum illi subjiciente , vnde de Ieroboam 2. Reg. 12. Te assumam & regnabis . Et 3. Reg. 11. Dedi te ducem super popul●… . Et 3. Reg 14. Scidi regnum domus Dauid , & dedi tibi illud : Sicut apud Daniel . 4. Dominatur excelsus in regno hominum , & cuicunque voluerit dabit illud postquam constitutus est rex , tùm dicit Apostolus de populo , [ Necesse est subijci . ] Rursus .

Qui velit concludere à Barbaris imperium esse eripiendum , quia sunt imperiti & compara●… ad parendum , eadem ratione consiciet , à foemina aut adolescente , vbi regnat , posse per vim extorqueri dominatum , itémque à Rege imperito regnum , à Praesule indocto Pontificatum : Aliud est enim quid faciendum est ex ratione & secundùm naturam ; aliud quid , si fiat , infectum sieri nequeat Iure igitur Sapientiorés regnant , sed reipsa imperitus & barbarus si regnet , iniuria est de regno hunc pellere : alioqui rapinae & caedi res mortalium omnes expositas esse opo●tebit . Haec Ioseph . Acosta Iesuita lib. 2. de Indorum salute . Cap. 5. * 1. Pet. 3. 1.

Though it be better to haue a more wise King , then a simple ; yet when he , whom we haue is but sillie , then may he no more be depriued of his Kingdome , then an vnlearned Prelate of his Bishoprick : otherwise the state of mortall men should be exposed to rapines and bloodshed . But to returne to the Oracles of God , S. Peter called mans entrance into the kingdome by consent of people , mans creation ; vpon this ground , it may be , your Reinolds did descant , where he called the King , mens creature : as though he could see in mans election nothing but man , whereas S. Peter in the same place saith to man creating , Be ye subiect vnto the creation of man , Propter Deum , for the Lords sake , in the creature beholding God : Why ? S. Paule will satisfie , Because the powers that are , be ordeined of God . Rom. 13. So that mans creation is but the bodie of soueraintie , Gods ordinance in that meanes is the very soule thereof , and ought in all Christians to be the life of loyall subiection .

The Answer retorted .

In the last place I must make bold to strike you with your owne sword : There is no King to rule ( say you ) where there is no people to be ruled : for King and people be Relata . All this is most true : Well now our Question is , whether after the peoples election of a King the power to depose a King remainestill in the people ; you affirme , we denie it , strengthned by this your Argument from relation originall , thus . The power of gouernment resteth rather in the Ruler , then in the partie to be ruled . But a King is elected to rule the people . Ergo the rule remaineth not in the people , but in the King . In coniugall societie before the contract the woman is free , but after contract ( à relatis ) now his wife : there followeth a necessitie of subiection , not to be dissolued : * Let the wife be subiect . Notwithstanding in your conclusion you bewray this modestie , to exact Learning in your Accuser , and shew none in your Answere . Thus much of your people , now we proceed orderlie to the Pope .

CHAP. XI .

The Discouery . Secondly of the Pope .

TO auouch his preeminence , these men goe beyond the Moone : as first Bozius . a a Pontisicem esse Caput totius Ecclesiae , & habere potestatem etiam circa omnia temporalia , probamus ex Theologis & Canonistis . Bezius de Eccles. Monarch . Tempor . Epist. Dedicat. ad Clement . 8. Pontif. The Pope , the head of the Church , hath power in all temporall causes and States .

The moderate Answerer .

b b Answere Cap. 2. § But it . It will be obiected from the second Reason , that Catholikes hold the Pope head of the Church in ciuill power ; and also ouer Kings , & circa omnia temporalia : Therefore he may depose Princes , and command Subiects to take armes against them once excommunicate . First I answere .

The Reply .

But first I aske , why would you answere this in discourse of the first Reason , and omit it here in this second , where ( being his proper place ) you had reason to answere . I should thinke it was for loue of breuitie ; but that your manifold superfluous repetitions doe except against it : yet I rather thinke it was your modestie , least that my accusation and your Answere ( as different colors ) iointly examined , might one illustrate the other ; that , to be constant and iust ; this , a meere fugitiue . But ( be not offended ) we must compare them , seeking your Answere where it is , seeing we cannot find it where it should be : your first and second and third must be discouered in the reason following . What say you to the present point ? Haue Popes prerogatiue ouer Kings in causes temporall , as of autority to depose them ?

The very moderate Answerer .

c c Answer Cap. 2. § Secondly . I answere for all Catholikes in generall to the maine Obiection , that Henricus , Victor , Iohannes de Turrecremata , Couor●●ius , & the common opinion of Schooles do teach , that there is no such temporallor regall power in Popes ouer Princes in ciuill affaires . And againe : d d Ibid. § Sixtly . These Autors do not say that this ciuill power is simplie and absolutely subiect to the Papall autoritie . And yet againe , e e Ibid. § Therefore . The discouerer cannot finde any such power soueraigne ouer Kings challenged by Popes , against which he so much inueigheth .

The Reply .

The summe of your Answere is , that the generall doctrine of Papists is to denie all temporall and ciuill power absolutely ouer Kings ; and that no Pope did euer challenge it . And yet behold , before your eyes , in this Reason to which you now would answere , your owne Doctor Bozius produced against you , who in his booke inscribed , f f De Temporali Ecclesiae Monarchia . Clementi 8. Pontifici Opt. Max. Franciscus Bozius . Of the temporall monarchie of the Church , and dedicated to the last Pope Clement the 8. is so absolute for this absolute temporall iurisdiction of the Pope aboue all estates whatsoeuer , that he extendeth it throughout the vniuersall world , euen g g Etiam Ethnici , quoad temporalia Ecclesiae , adeóque summo Pastori eius Romano Pontifici subijciuntur , vt docent Innocentius , Iohan. Andraeas , Hostiensis , Syluester , S. Antoninus , caeterique Doctores Canonistae , cosque puniri posse affirmant poenà etiam temporali . Bezius in codem libro . Ouer all Infidels , to punish them for some causes with corporall punishments . And he challengeth herein the consent of Andraeas , Syluester , Antoninus , and other Doctors Canonists ; yea also ( which you denied , that it can be showen ) Pope * * Iam infra . Innocentius doth challenge it . A doctrine so common , that Bellarmine doth confesse , that h h Affirmant hoc Aluarez , Syluester & multi alij . Bellar. Aluarez , Syluester , and many others do affirme it . Furthermore ( because you say , Your Discouerer cannot show &c. ) I must yet discouer a greater and grosser consent amongst your Schoole in this point . Alexander Carerius Patauinus of late hath writ ; the title of his booke is this , i i De potestate Romani Pontisicis aduersus impios Politicos , & huius temporis haereticos Libri istius inscriptio . Concerning the power of the Pope of Rome against all wicked Polititians and heretikes of this time . This sure will be something to the purpose : say on . k k Hanc opinionem , [ Summum Pontisicem iure diuino habere plenissimam potestatem in vniuersum orbem terrarum tùm in rebus Ecclesiasticis tum in politicis , ] sequendam censeo , quam communis Theologorum schola secuta est : Thomas , S. Antoninus ; cui opinioni subscripserunt ( enumerat vigi●●i duos , inter alios verò ) Franciscus Mayronus , cognomento Doctor illuminatus , nuperrimè verè Celsus Mancinus , qui in Tractatu de luribus Principatuum . lib. 3. Cap. 1. & 2. ita scriptum reliquit : In summo Pontifice est vtrauis potestas , seu iurisdictio spiritualis , & temporalis : & vti omnium est eminentissimus in spirituali potestate , ita etiam in temporali ; ita vt liceat de Pontifice Romano illud similitudine quadam asseuerare , quod Plato in Timaeo , quidnam esset Deus respondit , Non est homo , non coelum , non bonum , sed quid ? praestantius . Roget quis an summus Pontifex sit Dux , an Rex , an non Imperator ; caute respondebit , si negando asserat , esse quid praestantius , quiduè eminentius . Haec ille . Et ex illo haec Carerius lib 1 de Potest . Rom. Pont. Cap 9. This opinion , namely , that the Pope by the lawe of God hath most full power throughout the world euen in all temporall or ciuill causes , I defend : and hereunto the common Schooles of Diuines do subscribe . He numbreth two and twentie Authors , and among others one called The illuminated Doctor , and an other called Celsus , by interpretation , High or Aloft ; and therfore insignes him with Verè Celsus , as truly so named , and so truly he may be , if we iudge him by the loftinesse of his style and conclusion , which only this Carerius doth therfore expresse , as being more eminent then any other . Such and so great is the spirituall and ciuill power of the Pope ( saith Celsus ) that as Plato to one asking what God was , answered , he is not man , not heauen , not good , but what ? more excellent : so if any shall demaund what the Pope is ; by a kind of resemblance one may warily answere , he is no Duke , no King , nor Emperour , but more excellent . What can this be else ( seeing God only is for excellencie called * * 1. Tim. 6. 15. King of Kings , and Lord of Lords ) but an other God ? Warily answered , but wickedly . Next he assumeth for autoritie of his defence l l Eadem opinion probatur ex Canonistarum , testimonio , qui sic adhaeserunt decreto desumpto ex C. per venerabilem : qui filij legitimi : vt infinitum sit illos enumerare . Carerius ibid. Cap. 9. & 10. The common iudgement of Canonists , all building this opinion vpon the Decrees of Popes . As if they should say , if we be deceiued in our opinion concerning the Popes iurisdiction , then the Popes haue deceiued vs . What is that which Pope Innocentius decreed ? m m Secunda Canonistarum ostensio sumitur ex C. Solitae de maior . & obed. vbi Innocentius tertius ait : Deus creauit duo luminatia in coelo , solem & lunam ; id est , duas instituit dignitates , quae sunt , Pō●ficalis , & Regalis : harum quae praeest diebus , spiritualibus , scz . maior est , & dignior eà quae temporalibus praeficitur ; vt quanta est inter solem & lunam , tanta inter Papam & Imperatorem cognoscatur differentia . Optimè explicat summus Pontifex hac decretali Pontificiae dignitatis eminentiam . Carerius ibid. Cap. 12. That God created two great lights , the Sunne to rule the day , and the Moone to gouerne the night : signifying two dignities , the spirituall , which is the Papall , and the temporall , belonging to to the Emperour like the Moone . Yet so , that there is as great difference of excellencie betwixt the Emperour and the Pope , as betwixt the Moone , and the Sunne . What can you inferre from hence ? n n Vndè sic formo rationem ; Ea est proportio inter Pontificem & Imperatorem , quae est inter Solem & Lunam ; sed sol est praestantior lunâ , quae ab illo mutuat splendorem ac lucem : Igitur Imperatoris potestas à summo Pontifice pendet . Carcrius ibidem . That as the Moone hath no light , but that it borroweth of the Sunne : so the Emperour hath no power , which is not depending of the Pope . Thus Pope and popish by too much gazing on the Moone , are become lunatike , who by a spirit of pride carnally peruert the literall sence of the holie Ghost , as it is o o Vide Apolog. Catholicam . Part. 2. lib. 5. Cap. 17. Proued . And the whole doctrine will be plainely confuted in the * * Infra part 3. Confutation . Wherefore seeing that this temporall vniuersall iurisdiction of the Pope , some Papists with great consent , euen from Popes , haue proclaimed , all which you haue vnlearnedlie denied , which will yet be further confirmed in the next Chapter : learne henceforth a necessarie point of modestie , not to auouch a negatiue , No one Papist saith so , till you haue read sufficiently what they say . Thus much of the temporall power popish , considered directly : Now must we enquire how it may concerne him indirectly .

CHAP. XII .

The discouerie of the common doctrine of the Iesuitically opinionated .

THat the Pope hath power in temporall causes . a a Habet tamen indirectè in ordine ad bonum spirituale . Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. Cap. 6. & 7. This is true ( saith Bellarmine ) vnderstood vndirectly , as it may auaile for the spirituall good . In briefe , b b Stapleton in his English Counterblast against Master Horne . This supremacie of the Pope ( saith Stapleton ) is a doctrine to be holden of all Christians vpon paine of damnation , and separation from the Church of God .

The moderate Answerer .

c c Answere qu● supra Cap. 2. § Secondly . But Catholikes defend only a spirituall , as that is which they claime in temporals , in ordine ad Deum ▪ ( that is , for Gods cause ) and is not to vse the Disputers words , A ciuill power [ Soueraigne ouer Kings directly : ] but only a spirituall preheminence .

The Reply .

Vse my words , but abuse not my meaning , to make the Reader thinke I only intreated of the power temporall ouer Kings directly : whereas in the Discouerie there is expresse mention of the temporall iurisdiction challenged of Papists both directly , and also indirectly , both which are hereafter confuted . Here only we are to explaine them , and to shew , how both of them challenge a power in the Pope at his discretion to depose Kings . This hath bene manifested in the former , now it will appeare in the second , which you , forsooth , d d Answere in his Epist. § Therefore . His Maiesties most loyall Subiect , do now mainteine , namely , A power spirituall ( say you ) in temporall causes , as it may be behoofull for Gods cause . And how that is meant , your Bellarmine doth interpret . e e Altera sententia in altero extremo posita est , Pontisicem non habere potestatem aliquam temporalem iure diuino , nec pos●e vllo modo ( Ex ciuili autoritate ) imperare Principibus secularibus , nedum eos ●egno & principatu priuare , etiamsi alioqui priu●ri mereant●r : non habet ha●e potestate directe , sed indirecte in ordine ad b●… spi●… , habet potestatem eá●que sum●●m in tempo alibus . Hoc modo possit Reges deponere , regna transferre , vni auferre , alteri conferre , tan●…m sum●us Pontifex . Hanc sententiam Protestantes negant ; quam communis Catholico●um scho●… defendit . Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pent. Cap. 1. & 6. Protestants denie ( saith he ) that the Pope hath any temporall or politike iurisdiction and power ouer Kings by the law of God , as to be able to command Kings , much lesse to depose them from their thrones , and dispose of their Kingdomes . But the common consent of Catholike Diuines is , that indirectly and mediatly , that is ▪ so farre as it may concerne the spirituall good of the Church , the Pope hath a supreme power euen in temporall causes , to put downe Kings , and bestow their Kingdomes . And yet you denie , f f Superest vt demonstremus Papa non habere directe vllam temporalem iurisdictione iure diuino . Bellar. ibid. Cap. 4. That he hath directly any temporall gouernment by the lawe of God . A spirituall cosenage , as is proued by arguments in the * * Infra part. 3. Consutation , & only in this place to be exemplified . You may peraduenture remember that King , whose name I haue forgot , who being desirous to decree something contrary to that lawe whereunto he was sworne , required counsell in this case : Sir ( saith his counseller ) the Lawe directly forbids you this ; yet there is another law which permits the King to do what he list . A dangerous State , where the Kings lust is his law . Now how is it in this your controuersie ? to say the Pope can directly iudge and depose Kings . O no , you will not , For ( say you ) we denie : This opinion ( saith Bellar. ) is the first extremitie , as though you would acknowledge that to be directly a ground of treason : yet you hold it lawfull , When the Pope shall thinke it be●oofull for the spirituall good , then he may iudge , depose , and kill . Herein giuing vs a speciall argument of your singular modestie ; whereas being ashamed to giue the Pope Direct Soueraigntie ouer Kings , haue closely conueyed vnto him the same power by the other tearme , called Indirectly . It were to be wished you would leaue that subtill modestie , and learne honest simplicitie . It may be we shall perceiue some dragme thereof in your fourth-ly .

The moderate Answerer .

g g Answer cap. 2. § Fourthly . Fourthly , the maintainers of this doctrine do not vrge greater indignitie , or defend any sentence more offensiue ( in equall iudgement ) to any Pralate , sheepe , or shepheard ; then to the chiefest Shepheard vnder Christ the Pope himselfe : for they all with one consent affirme , that in case of heresie ( now in question ) he is either actually and really deposed , or to be deposed ; The Canonists do hold , that he is ipso facto deposed , if he fall into heresie ; with whom Turrecrem . Castr● , and others do consent .

The Reply .

Wherein I dare appeale to any equall , or almost any vnequall iudgement of my greatest aduersaries , to determine whether this your answer be not absurdly false in two degrees .

First : h h Answer cap. 3. § Secondly . Those ( you say ) who vrge this opinion , of deposing Princes in case of heresie , offer no more indignitie to any sheepe , then to the chiefe shepheard vnder Christ the Pope : and yet in the same Chapter , I Answer ( say you ) if any man hold that opinion of such power ouer Princes in Popes , yet they will pleade it more tolerable in the authoritie of one supreme Pastor in the Church , whereof Princes be sheepe , &c. The argument then of these men , as you confesse , and * * Infra Part 3. is hereafter shewed , is this , As the shepheard to the sheepe , so the Pope to Kings : but shepheards haue power ouer sheepe , and not sheepe ouer shepheards . Ergo Popes may depose Princes , and Princes may not remoue Popes . This is your Popish and ( as it is * * In the third part . after proued ) your sheepish conclusion : wherein whether there be not offered greater indignitie to Princes , then to Popes , let the equall Reader iudge .

Secondly , the Authors of the doctrine of deposing of Kings in case of heresie , do professe concerning Popes , i i Bellar. Ies. lib. 4. de Rom. Pont. ca. 2. Greg. Valent. Ies. Analys . lib. 8. cap. 3. Salmeron Jes . Com. in Gal. 2. Disp. 24. Canus loc. T●●ol . lib. 6. cap. 8. Staplet . Doctr. Princ li. 6 Cos●erus Enchir. Tract . de Pontif. That they cannot possibly be Heretikes , as Popes , and consequently cannot be deposed : Not ( saith k k Bellarm. in●ra . Bellarmine ) by any power whether Ecclesiasticall or temporall , no not by all Bishops assembled in a Councell . Not though ( saith l l Ibidem . Carerius ) he should do any thing preiudiciall to the vniuersall stat● of the Church : Not though ( saith m m Ibidem . Azorius ) he should neglect the Canons Ecclesiasticall , or peruert the lawes of Kings : Not though ( saith your n n Ibidem . Gratianus Glosse ) he should carrie infinite multitudes of soules headlong with him into hell . And these forenamed Authors do auouch for the confirmation of this doctrine the vniuersall consent of Romish Diuines , and Canonists for the space of an hundred yeares . Whether therefore to affirme , that Kings may be Heretikes , and for that cause deposed , and that Popes cannot be deposed , because as Popes they cannot be Heretikes , be equall indignitie to Popes and Kings , let ( if you will ) your vnequall Reader iudge . And now ( not to stand vpon other transparent absurdities of these Authors ) your modestie is to be put in mind , not to appeale vnto equall iudgement in that , wherein you manifest your totall eclypse of iudgement . Hitherto haue we disputed of the power of people and of the Pope , considered as it were intensiuely . Now we approach to examine both of them in their extent and execution .

CHAP. XIII .

The Discouerie in the third Reason .

WHosoeuer vpon any pretended supremacie , whether of Pope or people , do denie the necessarie right of Election . or of succession of Protestant Princes ; are to be holden amongst all Protestants seditious : But all Popish Priests do vtterly abolish the title of Succession in all Protestant Princes , by pretended prerogatiue of Pope and people . Ergo : The Minor proued by their Positions .

In Election .

1. The Romish Cardinall : a a Nulla est Imperatonis aut Regis electio , si cum eligitur , excommunicatus sit . Tolet ▪ Ies . & Cardinal . lib. 1 instruct . cap. 13. § Aduett . autem . There is no election , whether of King or Emperor , of any force , if he that is elect ( such as they esteeme all Protestants ) be excommunicate .

In Succession .

Reinalds : b b Ius ad regna Christianorum maius est in Religione , quàm in Successione : maius in vltione haeresis ( loquitur de Protestantibus ) quàm in cognatione sanguinis . Debent igitur Christiani omnem tali spem praescindere , ne ad eam celfitatem aspiret ▪ Reinald Anglus in suo Ros●us pag ▪ 649 & pag. 670. The right of Kings Christian must depend rather vpon their Religion , then vpon order of Succession : and therefore all Christians are bound to cut off all hope , lest that any such ( speaking of Protestants ) may aspire to the throne . c c Qui contra facit , Deum homini postponere , carnem spiritui anteponere dicendus est . Staplet ▪ in suo Did●m . pag. 122. Otherwise ( saith Stapleton ) what do people else but euen preferre man before God . Hereupon doth Simancha conclude , that d d Regnum Haeretici defuncti ad filium Catholicum pertinet : quòd si filius & consanguinei eius haeretici fuerint , Regnum Catholicum possit Regem orthodoxum eligere : si verò Regnum haereticum fuerit , Electio Regis Catholici ad summum Pontificem pertinet : sed & r●gnum illud possit a Catholicis occupari . The Kingdome of an Heretike departed doth lineally descend vpon his sonne : but if the sonne in the race Royall be hereticall , the Catholike Common-weale may chuse him a Prince : but if also the Kingdome be hereticall , then the choice of the King belongeth to the Pope : and so the Kingdome may be taken by Catholikes . And lest , peraduenture , any should consent to the lawfull Succession , father Parsons doth pronounce sentence . e e Parsons in his Dolman . pag. 216. Whosoeuer shall consent to the succession of a Protestant , is a most grie●ous and damnable sinner . Thus farre of the Position . Now behold their

Practise .

1. In France . Reinalds doth forewarne the French . f f Vultis in Regno Galliae Christianissimo Regem proclamare Nauarraeum Caluinistam ? eadem opera hominibus imperare iubetis canem ; templum Dei viuentis prostituitis Satanae , & in vineam Domini immittitis truculentum aprum , qui illam vastet & depascatur . Reinald in suo Rosaeus . pag. 466. Will you proclaime Nauarre a Caluinist King of Fraunce ? What is this else then to aduance a dogge to be Soueraigne ouer men ? g g Illi nè clament Viue Rex , quem ne salutare possint , nec in domum suam recipere ? Ibid pag. 476. Shall Catholikes pray , God saue that King , whom they may not admit into their houses ? h h Dicit fortassis Nauarraeus , Ego saniorem Religionem induco , sed hoc ad rem nullo modo pertinet ; tenetur enim Religionem Romanam defendere . Creswellus in suo Philopater . For suppose ( saith Father Creswell ) that he professe to bring in a more sound Religion ; what is this to the purpose ? he is bound to defend the Romish faith . From France we will returne home , where father Parsons busieth himselfe to disable the title of Succession of our most dread Soueraigne King Iames : * * Parsons in his bocke called , A Conference concerning the next succession of the crowne of England . with intent to aduance the Infanta of Spaine thereunto . Thus much of Successors , now of Possessors .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 4. § I Answer . Let all be true which he citeth , and that they so teach : yet if fiue particular men could make a generall Councell , and their sentence be tearmed a publike Position : yet they speake onely of a Prince excommunicate before his Election ; which case is not now in rerum natura , much lesse in England , as this vniust Accuser would proue .

The Reply .

Vniust ? not so , your selfe will acquit me : I haue instanced in sixe of your Priests and Iesuites , whereof foure be our owne countrimen , and therefore , by your owne iudgement , Best able to iudge of our country cause . And you answer , Let all be true which he citeth , when you could not answer that one testimonie was vntrue . Secondly , you start backe ; If ( say you ) fiue particular men could make a Councell , or their sentences be tearmed a publike Position : as if we may not rather vnderstand your publike Positions by these fiue your best learned Clearkes , then by onely you , who by that your [ Yet if ] would onely seeme to take exception vnto fiue , and bring instance to the contrarie from none . In all which you testifie that I am not an vniust Accuser , but that you are now an idle Disputer .

But if these fiue should be thought priuate , whose bookes are priuiledged with the most publike and ordinarie approbation of your Church ; I could adde fiue score moe of your side conspiring in these Positions belonging to conspiracie . Thirdly , They speake ( say you ) of a Prince excommunicate , which is not our English case at this present . Good , Now at this present : namely , when you writ , and yet peraduenture whilest I replie the case is presently altered , or at the Popes pleasure may be . And is not this a safe case for our Soueraigne , trow ye ? Wherof more in the next Section .

The most moderate Answerer .

b b Answer quo supra . His Maiestie was not excommunicate before his Election , neither is he now , but is both elected and setled in his throne both without any contradiction of the Pope , and with his Iubet of all obedience , and Prohibet of deniall thereof . All the Catholikes of this Kingdome applauded it as much as Protestants , and his vnion and league with Catholike Princes and people abroad is sufficient Answer , that this is a malitious slaunder of holy Priesthood , and proueth Catholikes innocent , Protestants guiltie , and this man an vniust Accuser .

The Reply .

If his Maiestie was not excommunicate by the Pope before his Election , ( which you should rather call Succession ) then was he vniustly ( that I may so say ) excommuned by the Pope before his Election : but your Superior Garnet confessed , that he had receiued two Breues from the Pope , to make vse of , whensoeuer our late Queene Elizabeth should depart out of this mortalitie . The content of those Breues was this : that c c Quamprimùm contigerit miseram illa foeminam ex hac vita discedere , &c. Garnet bis Comfession at the Barre . None should be acknowledged King of England , but such as was a professed and resolute Catholike : Nulli , quantâcunque sanguinis propinquitate nitantur : that is , No other , though neuer so nigh in bloud . Which Breues , he ( perceiuing the generall applause of people yeelding to the right of Succession according to nearenesse in bloud ) burnt . Thus we see if the Popes power had not bene disappointed by want of force , his Maiesty , though nearest in bloud , might not haue entred but with bloud . Now therefore what a case am I in ? If I shall denie my fonner assertion , then your superior Priest Garnet will accuse me for a liar ; for his Maiesties case was not different from others , seeing The Pope gaue contradiction to his succession : if I still defend it , then your Priestship doth accuse me for a Slanderer of holy Priesthood .

The very moderate Answerer .

d d Lam supra . Because the Pope gaue a Iubet of all obedience , and prohibet restraint of disobedience .

The Reply .

Yea , Iubet of obedience ? Iubet ? what is that ? Euery child can expound it literally to signifie To commaund , but by Popish Glosse may happily signifie to forbid : for we must not be ignorant of your like glozing in the publike Decrees of Popes . Whereas your Canon is e e Grat. dist. 4. col . 2. § Statuimus . Statuimus , We decree : that is , ( saith your Expositor ) We abrogate , or disallow . Is it not as easie for you to turne Iubet , to an id est , prohibet ? Howsoeuer we perceiue your subiection stands still vpon the Popes Iubet , that ( as it is recorded of the French ) f f Arnold . in Orat. ●●uers . Jes . If he shall commaund to kill the King , you must be his subiects . Lastly , there is but one of these Authors aboue mentioned , who speaketh expresly of the excommunicate : and there is not one of them , but iudgeth a publike professed Protestant in the state of an g g Vide supra . chap. 2. & 3. &c. Excommunicate . To conclude therefore , be you admonished not to preiudice your modestie so much , as to taxe any for an Vniust Accuser , against whom you can shew no iust exception . Yet there remaineth two other mysteries to be vnfolded , the first is yours , the second is your Superiors .

CHAP. XIIII .

The new deuice of our moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 6. § But first . TThere is at this present a great difference betweene the Emperor , who is created by the Popes lawes , and with his solemnities from whence he receiueth his sword ; and a King that is absolute , and not so created or depending for power or iurisdiction , such as our Soueraigne in England : for the Emperor is the Popes Minister , as saith Molina .

The Reply .

We might peraduenture be beholden vnto you for this distinction , if we could presume you knew what you said : being guiltie herein of a double falshood , first , to thinke , That the Emperor hath no power , but from the Pope : the second , to say you thinke , That other Kings haue not any power , which is not from the Pope . The former is confuted * * Infra part 〈…〉 hereafter : the other now in this place . For your Carerius , making vnction by Romish Bishops in Coronation of Kings to be essentiall to royaltie , without which they be no Kings , saith : b b Notissimum est Reges Galliae , Angliae , Scotiae , Daniae , Suethiae , nisi vngerentur ab Episcopis , non fuisle pro Regibus habitos : vt aperuit Thomas Bozius , &c. Carerius lib. 2. de Pont. cap. 17. That this is a doctrine most commonly knowne of all , that the Kings of France , England , Scotland , &c. were neuer esteemed Kings before their Vnction : c c Parsons in his Dolman pag ▪ 132 No more ( saith your Parsons ) in the rigor of iustice before ( Popish ) Coronation , then the Maior of London can be called Maior before his oath . d d Qui non sinit ●e à Sacerdotibus vt Regem vngi in eum finem vt Religionem Christianam defendat , nullo iure possit Christianos in Baptismo vnctos regere . Reinald . in Rosaeus pag ▪ 535. Which Vnction whosoeuer shall refuse ( saith Reinalds ) can haue no right to gouerne Christians annointed in Baptisme . In briefe : e e Allane in his Admonition . pag. 31. None is lawfull King or Queene of England ( saith your Cardinall ) without the approbation of the See Apostolike . All grosly false : for first : f f In Francia Reges , qui iure haereditario succedunt , ante solennem inaugurationem & coronationem , vt ex amplissimi ordinis decreto constitutum est , pro consecrato & inaugurato habentur Barclaius lib. 3. contra Monarchomach . cap 2. In France ( saith your Barclay ) Kings who are to succeed by inheritance , are iudged as consecrate and inaugurate before they be solemnely annointed . And shall we thinke the French Kings to exceed our English herei● ? No , I haue heard Lawyers say , The King of England neuer dyeth . I thinke they speake not without booke ; otherwise Q. Mary could neuer haue iustified her act , when she beheaded the Duke of Northumberland , some moneths before her Coronation , for high treason against her royall person , I returne to your argument . g g Si Imperator saltem honore & dignitate cunctis Regibus in Ecclesia excellentior reputatur , à Papa demum reprobari possit , multò magis caeteri Principes à Papa punientur : nam , vt aiunt , qui eminentem Aquilam domat , facilè Accipitres comprimet . Carerius quo supra . lib. 1. cap. 3. If the Emperor ( saith your Carerius ) who is held more eminent , at least in dignitie , then any King , may be reiected by the Popes : then much more other Kings may be punished by the Popes authoritie . For he that can tame an Eagle , may much more command Hawkes . Here we obserue your spirits of contradiction : you from comparison of disparitie betweene the Emperor and other Kings , would seeme to free Kings , and inthral the Emperor : your Doctor Carerius from the contrarie disparitie would bring all Kings into subiection . But know , that howsoeuer now the Eagle be entangled , whom you esteeme no better then the Popes vassall , yet Non facile Accipitri rete sternitur . And that neither Emperor nor King are lawfully subiect to this yoke , is afterward made manifest .

A second new deuice .

h h Garnet publikly at his Arraignment . His Maistie is not in the case of Excommunication , as other relapsed Protestants , because he was borne in that faith which he professeth .

The Reply .

And yet the now Henry 4. King of France sucking Protestants doctrine from his nurce , was excluded from his birth-right of the Crowne , till he was reconciled vnto the Pope . And this same father Garnet had a Breue from the Pope to barre our Soueraigne from Succession , except he should be found absolutely a Romish Catholike . If then the Borne Protestants be free from Excommunication , why did the Pope exclude the King of France , or by his Breue to you , except against the King of England ? If the case be otherwise , what Quacksaluers be you to offer a salue which cannot possibly cure the sore ? I haue digressed a little , but I hope not transgressed ; for this point was , you see , pertinent . I returne to you our moderate Answerer , and we will now ioyne issue in the next Reason .

CHAP. XV.

The Discouerie in the fourth Reason .

WHen the King is established in his throne by the common consent of the Kingdome ; whosoeuer shall manackle the hands of his subiects , detracting all obedience , may iustly by order of lawe be challenged and condemned for a disordred and rebellious person . But all popish priests do dissolue the oath of obedience to all Protestant Gouernors . Ergo. The Minor proued by

Their Positions .

First one of their Bishops resolueth , that a a Quamprimum Reges Christiani facti sunt heretici , protenùs eorum Subiecti ab illorum Dominio liberantur . Simancha Episc. Instit. lit. 23. sect. 11. As soone as a Christian King becomes hereticall , forthwith people are freed from subiection .

Secondly their Cardinall . b b Durante excommunicatione qui obnoxij erant vinculo fidelitatis vel iuramenti tali vinculo liberabuntur . Tollet . Ies & Card. Instruct . Saccrd . lib. 1. Cap. 13. As long as the Prince continueth excommunicate , the subiect is freed from the oath of subiection . By whom are they freed ? c c Non videtur negandum , posse Rom. Pontificem se & alios soluere à iurisiurandi religione & lege , modò iusta causa subsit . Azor. Ies. Instit. Mor. Cap. 15. § Sextò quaeritur . By the Pope ( saith the lesuit ) who vpon iust cause hath iust power to absolue from oathes both himselfe and all others . Sometime the Prince is personallie excommunicate , what then ? d d Postquam per Pontificem ( nominati●… ) excommunicantur , extunc Vasalli ab eius fidelitate denunciantur absoluti : Et terra eius exponitur Catholicis occupanda , qui eam , exterminatis hereticis , absque vlla contradictione possideant Massonius Iuriscons de Maiest . milit. Eccl. par. 2. lib. 4. de Imperijs pag. 676. Then ( saith their Lawyer ) Subiects are freed from their allegiance : and all his hereticall Assistants to be rooted out , and their land to be exposed to be possessed of ( Strangers ) Catholikes . But how if he be not excommunicate by name ? yea , what though not excommunicate ? e e Cùm est crimen notorium , nullâ est opus declaratione sententiae excommunicationis Panormitan . Cap. Cum in homine extra de iudicijs . If ( saith an other ) his heresie be publikely knowne , there needeth no pronunciation of the sentence of Excommunication . f f Crimen heresis , si fit notorium , vt nullâ possit tergiuersatione caelari , etiam ante Iudicis sententiam , incurritur ( ex parte ) poena praedicta : nimirùm , eatenùs , vt subditi licitè possint tali Domino negare obsequium . Valent. 〈…〉 . 3. in Thom. Disp. 1. q. 12. punct. 2. pag. 463. § Nunc. So that ( saith the Iesuite ) Subiects may lawfullie denie him obedience . How so ? g g In hoc articulo ●u●t ●chnus & C●jetanus , & communior sente 〈◊〉 ap●d ●…ulos D. Thomae , & probant , quia ia hac causa adest ●emper volu●tas interpretat●… Pontisi●●s , qui obtinet vim s●ntentiae , atque euidentia ●acti habet vim sententiae . Bannes in 2. 2. q. 12 Act. 2. Con●lus . 2. For the euidence of the crime ( saith their whole schoole ) doth inferre a sentence of condemnation , because ( as the more common opinion defineth ) there must we vnderstand the Pope his will is to haue him excommunicate , whom vpon the knowled●e of his fault he would excommunicate . Say , Father Creswell , is this true ? h h Hoc vniuersa Theologorum & lurisconsultorum Schola tenent , & est certum , & deside . Cresa ●llus I●s . in suo Philopater . pag. 194. It is certaine and of faith auouched by the vniuersall voice of Schooles . Satisfie vs yet in one question more : Suppose that the Protestant Prince haue a iust quarrell , what then ? * * In the coppie of a letter sent by Card. Allen to Sir Willi●m Stanley . pag. 10. No warre can be lawfullie denounced or waged by the Queene ( being excommunicate by name ) though otherwise in it se●fe it were most iust , because her power is vnlawfull .

The very moderate Answerer .

i i The Answer cap. 5. in initio . This is the first Proposition I grant vnto ; but how false and standerous his Assumption is , I haue proued before . Secondly all his Autorities he bringeth are priuate men , not able to make a dogmaticall principle , or publike position ; againe they intreate of such as be nominatim excommunicate : of which sort there is no Protestant Prince ; neither can there be any iust feare of the Popes generall proceeding herein : except any Protestant Prince should be incited by some such vnchristian spirits , as this Discouerer seemeth to be possessed with , to exceede all others in persecuting Catholikes , and offering indignities to the Church of God .

The Reply .

It seemeth you were now in your naturall choller , because in this one Answere you do vilifie your friends , threaten your Soueraigne , traduce your Aduersarie , and in conclusion condemne your owne ghostlie fathers .

Your friends : to call these your Doctors , Cardinall Tollet , Reinolds , Symancha , Creswell , Stapleton , Azorius , Panormitan , Greg of Valentia , Bannes , and such like , and the most of them most publike and eminent Doctors your late Romish Church did glorie in , and autorized with the common consent of Ordinaries , priuileges of Collegies , and your vniuersall schoole ; to call , I say , such like priuate men , and not be able to oppose one priuate man of that sect against them , doth argue a spirit of rare modestie , and singular insufficiencie .

Your Soueraigne : If he shall offer , as you misconster it , to persecute , and to cut off the most capitall enemies to his state , and gangrenes of their countrey , then The Pope &c. O sir , ●emember your selfe , One of his Maiesties loyall Subiects &c. This is not modestie , but hypocrisie .

Your Aduersarie , The Discouerer , forsooth , an vnchristian spirit : who doth discouer only the hooke , of treason , whereby sillie soules are catched ; and herein not chargeable with misieporting his Autors , desirous to recall you to the ancient truth of Christian subiection , and ( if it be possible ) to sauing health ; And yet is thus censured as an inciter of his Maiestie against Romish Priests , whom their owne positions and practises do proclaime publikely to be persons seditious .

Your Fathers : for this proposition , Whosoeuer shall manacle the hands of Subiects , denying obedience to their established Kings , must be iudged a rebellious person , you say you Grant : now it hath bene proued , that not only these aboue named Iesuites , but also your Popes haue bene principals in these kinds of Treasons both against the Emperour Henry the fourth , and also the mirror of all princely wisedome , Elizabeth our late Soueraigne . And therefore in your conclusion you infold your Popes in the roote of these rebellions . These Popes we haue discouered by their practises , as for example .

CHAP. XVI .

The Discouerer in the Practise .

FIrst , Pope Gregorie the seauenth , alias Hildebrand , beginneth his pageant i i Nos eos , qui Excommunicatis fidelitate & sacramento censtricti sunt , Apostolicà autoritate ●…ramento absoluimus . Greg. 7. Pont. ap●d Grat. Caus. ●5 . q. 6. We by Apostolicall autoritie do absol●e all from their oathes , which they haue giuen to persons excommunicate . And another Gregorie vseth the like tenor , k k Nos excommunicamus vniuersos haereticos , vt absolutos se nouerint omni fidelitatis debito , qui ijs iuramento tenebantur astricti . Greg. 9. Pont. lib. 5. D●cr●t . tit. 7. Cap. 5. Glossa . We absolue , &c. in the same case . Lastly , Pius Quintus , their successor in place , but superior in malice : l l Volumus & iubemus &c. & absoluimus subditos vinculo iuramenti , quo Reginae Elizabethae constricti tenebantur . Pius 5. Pontifex in Bulla . We command all Subiects ( saith he ) &c. and absolue them from the faith they haue plight with Elizabeth their Queene .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer Cap. 5. § And first . First to Gregorie the seauenth , who , as this man vrgeth , absolued all from obedience to Excommunicates : I answere for all Catholikes in generall , that this nothing concerned Protestants , neither any heretikes ; but only such as he had other quarrels and contentions against .

The Reply .

True , the histories of those times shew , that the Popes were after some 600. yeares after Christ alwayes quarrellous ; and according to that proper name of Gregory the seauenth ( now mentioned ) called Hildebrand , the very firebrands of Christendome . But how do you satisfie for Hildebrand ? I grant ( say you ) that he that dissolueth the obedience of Subiects to their Soueraignes , is iustlie accompted seditious : Here you cannot denie , but that Pope Gregorie the seauenth absolued all from obedience to excommunicates . You know what followeth : Ergo , the Pope is condemned as one guiltie of high treason : This is commendable modestie , which is voide of partialitie . To the second example you answere .

The moderate Answere .

b b Answer Cap. 5. § But he . But he vrgeth the Glosse of Gregorie the ninth , and citeth the Decret where there is no such matter , or any thing like vnto it .

I commend your diligence , and wish you were as modest to acknowledge all my other truths , as I am to confesse this my only escape : which the importunitie of the time , and not the exigence of examples did occasion . For besides other examples , I might haue insisted vpon that Bull of Paulus the 3. against King Henry the 8. which differeth not from the tenor of the decree alledged * * Supra . Wee commaund the Nobles of England by force of armes to expell Henry the 8. out of that Kingdome . This then was an error of mistaking my Autor , not by ●eigning of false matter , which is proued by so many witnesses . But I thanke you for your taxation of this default , trusting that your modestie will condescend to that point of lawe , He that excepteth in some doth yeeld to the rest .

The moderate Answerer .

c c Ibid. § Lastly . Lastlie he bringeth in the Bull of Pius Quintus against Queene Elizabeth : but I answere , that many graue and learned men haue thought the information of the case of Queene Elizabeth to the See Apostolike , whereupon the censure of Excommunication was awarded against her , to haue bene vntrue : and Pius Quintus , an holie man , himselfe after bewailed the proceedings vpon such suggestion .

The Reply .

In this Answere ( I confesse ) you shew some arte , as namely , to deplore the state past , that you may more easily delude the present . Touching the first . Say , was the information against the Queene vntrue ? and did Graue men so iudge of it ? Take heed what you say ; This answere will more preiudice the two principall prerogatiues of that your Romish See , then you are aware of ; as namely , the power of canonizing Saints , and excommunicating of Princely sinners , which both are cases reserued as proper to the Pope , and both proceeding ( as you say ) from the d d De Apostolicae autoritatis plenitudine declaramus &c. T●nor Bullarum Papalium . fulnesse of Apostolike authoritie .

The truth of canonizing Saints ; as for example , Thomas Becket , dependeth vpon true information : so ( by your owne confession ) the truth of excommunication , ( as of Queene Elizabeth , ) must relie vpon a iust suggestion . Now then did your Pope Pius erre in excommunicating , and so in condemning e Canus locis Theolog. & Bellar . lib de Cultu Sanctorum . an innocent ? and might he not likewise erre in canonizing an Offendor ?

The second prerogatiue which that See doth challenge is , Appeales to Rome : but seeing a lying fame ( like a rowled snowball ) the further it moueth the more increaseth in her falshood : we must learne wisedome from that ancient Councell of Carthage ( whereunto Saint Augustine did subscribe ) which thought it necessarie , for feare of false information , to haue all causes iudged in their owne Countries : and therefore did expreslie decree against the See of Rome , that none should make appeale beyond the Sea .

But because this practise of Pius in excommunicating our late gracious Soueraigne , doth liuely exemplifie all popish positions in our late Discouerie , we must desire your patience to be informed in the true circumstances which concerne this excommunication , not by the witnesse of your imagined Graue men , who , if they euer were , yet now happilie be dead in their graues : but by those monuments which make the acts of dead men immortall , such as the tenor of the Bull of Pius doth purport .

Pius &c. Ad perpetuam rei memoriam . The Bull of f f Summa Constitutionum summotum Pontificum à Greg. 9. vsque ad Sixtum Quintum : Per Petrum Mathaeum collecta & commentarijs illastrata . PIVS QVINTVS , with the principall circumstances and interpretation thereof : written by Petrus Mathaeus , and dedicated to Sixtus Quintus then Pope .

The Bull.

g g Pius &c. Cùm impij multi alios pessimis doctrinis corrumpentes ad Angliae Reginam , veluti ad Asylum , omnium infestissimi persuger●t : vbi illa supremi Ecclesiae Capitis locum in omni Anglia , ●i●… que praecipuam autoritatem atque iurisdictionem monstrosè vsurpans , amplexis haereticotum erroribus , Regnum illud obscuris hominibus haereticis comple●it , Catholicae fide● cultores oppresset , Mi●…ae sacrificium , ieiunia , delectum ciborum , coelibatum , ritú que Catholicos aboleuit , impia mysteria & instituta ad Caluini praescriptum à se suscepta & obseruata , etiam à subditis seruari mandauit ▪ Catholicos Episcopos & Ecclesiarum Rectores suis Ecclesijs dejicere , in homines haereticos disponere , déque Ecclesiae causis disponere ausa ; Clero & populo ne Romanam Ecclesiam agnoscerent , neuè eius sanctionibus Canonicis obtemperarent , interdixit , seque solam in temporalibus & spiritualibus Dominam agnoscere , iureiurando co●git ; poenas in ●os , qui non essent audientes , imposuit ; Catholicos Antistites in vincula co●…t : quae omnia cum apud omnes nationes perspicua & notoria sunt , grauissimóque quam plunmorum testimonio ita comprobata , vt nullus omnino locus excusationis relinquatur ; quo●…am animum eius ita obfirmatum intelligimus , vt ne huius quidem sedis nuncios in Angliam trajicere permiserit : De Apostolicae sedis plenitudine declaramus praedictam Elizabetham Reginam haereticam , & haereticorum ●autricem , eique adhaerentes in praedictam Anathematis sententiam incurrisse , esseque à Christi corpore praecisos : quinetiam ipsam quocunque dominio ac dignitate priuatam , & item Proceres , & subditos dicti regni , & caeteros omnes , qui illi quomodocunque iurauerit , à iuramento huiusmodi , & omni prorsus dominij , fidelitatis , & obsequij debito perpetuo absolutos . Eulla Pij Quinti . BEcause the Queene of England hath filled her Countrie with Heretikes , oppressing the Catholikes , translating the Byshopricks of Catholike Prelates vpon Heretikes , not acknowledging the Iurisdiction of the Church of Rome , but making her selfe head in all causes within her Dominions ; Wee from the fulnesse of our Apostolicall power doe pronounce Elizabeth an Hereticall Queene , and a fauourer of Heretikes , and denounce Anathema to all that shall adheere vnto her ; and also depriue her of all rule and dignitie , Absoluing all the subiects of the land , of what condition soeuer , from the oath of their Subiection , and from all manner of obedience . This is the summe of the Bull of Excommunication . Now heare

The Interpretation thereof .

h h Propter huius Apostolici scripti publicationem vnus aut alter maiori zelo praediti mox Londini , vbi ipsius pseudoepiscopi valuis affixum fuit , extremum supplicium laesae maiestatis condemnati constanter subierunt . Hoc scriptum , Pio Quinto mortuo , à Successore suo renouatum ac confirmatum fuit : quòd haeretici palam , vt puerorum terriculamenta , ita se prorsus contemnere simulabant , licet reuer à de rei euentu vehementer dubitantes , dicerentur secretò Romae , per quosdam magnos vi●os de sententiae reuocationè plurimum , sed frustra , laborasle . Petrus Matthaeus infra Bullam . Et Elizabetha Regina haeretica etiam fuit & est . Ibid. in margine Bullae . This Bull after the death of Pius Quintus , was confirmed by his Successor ; which the Heretikes themselues , doubting the danger of the euent , did labour ( as it is said ) secretly by great men to haue this sentence of Excommunication repealed : But all in vaine . The Queene was and is an Heretike .

By this Bull , and interpretation thereof , your whole moderate Answer is conuinced of extreme impudencie .

First , * * Answer supra Cap. 1. No Protestants are by any Catholikes accounted Heretikes : yet heere , he whom you named the chiefe Shepheard , hath named our Queene and her Subiects sixe times * * Supra . Heretikes . We dispute of Buls , and Buls haue hornes : I must therefore encounter you with a Dilemma , which the Logitians call an Horned argument ; thus , If that no Catholikes can call Protestants Heretikes , then was not Pius Quintus and his Successor ( both Bishops of Rome ) Catholikes ; who haue numbred Protestants in the catalogue of Heretikes : If Protestants be to be iudged Heretikes , then this your Answere is blasted , Protestants are no Heretikes . You are then in these straites , either to recant your Answere , or to renounce your ghostly father .

Secondly , the horned syllogisme doth assault you the second time , thus : If the excommunication of our Queene by your Pius was iust , why was it * * The Answere supra . Bewayled ? If it were vniust , why was it i i Matthaeus supra . not repealed ? This is a second straite , either to confesse your Answere to haue bene inconsiderate , or else your Popes Bull to haue runne mad : and so it did : for * * Prou. 17. 15. To condemne the innocent , and iustifie the vngodly both are abhominable to the Lord .

Thirdly , the horned Argument doth againe tume vpon you , thus , Either you Priests will take an oath of constant obedience , without the Popes arbitrary pleasure , or you will not ; If so , then the pretended power Papall indirectly ouer Kings , must be directly renounced : If not , then , for me to affirme , that Euery Priest Romish doth denie the oath of obedience , is no Slander . This is an other straite , and doth constraine you to acquit me as no slanderer , or else to confesse your Pope an vsurper .

Lastly , your Pope Pius did Bewaile the proceedings of that Bull , and so we verily thinke , but so as your Guido Faux immediatly after his apprehension , sorrowed for the proceeding of his stratageme , namely , Because it did not proceed . For ( as your Interpreter complaineth ) k k Regina , postquam Bulla publicata est , maioti molestia Catholicos affecit Mat. quo sup . The Queene after that time did more grieuously afflict the Romish . Wherefore we wish the Article verified of your excommunicating Bulles , which is vulgarly common in the like kind , viz. To haue alwaies short ●ornes . This of the acts past .

CHAP. XVII .

Concerning the State present .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer quo supra in fine . IF the case was such betwixt the Popes and deceased Princes : yet I cannot conceiue how any equall minded Protestant can thinke that the Pope so strictly commanding obedience of all Catholikes to his Maiestie , will or can be so contrarie to himselfe , to publish a contrary command against a King , offering in publike Parliament to meete with the Romish Church , all nouelties taken away , ( we wish no more ) and in the meane time acknowledge the same Romane Church to be our Mother . Church , and that his mind was to free vs from persecution for matters of Conscience . Of such a King Bellarmine himselfe , cited against vs , will be witnesse , that he thinketh the Pope cannot proceed against him .

The Reply .

Conceiue but how strictly the Pope hath commaunded obedience ; and then you will easily vnderstand how largely you may become trecherous .

First , the Popes Bull of Excommunication against our late Queene , b b Supra cap. 1 6. lit . 〈◊〉 . was nailed publikely vpon the Bishop of Londons gate : but this gentle Bul of obedience doth without any voice range secretly , we know not where , ( it may be as the Popes Breue , in Garnets pocket ) and named to be , by them , who are not , because they do equiuocate .

Secondly , the Popes Bull of obedience is so strictly commaunded , as alwaies limited within the crooked hookes of this Parenthesis ( c c Vide infr● Rat. 8. Rebus sic stantibus ) or ( d d Vide infra Rat. 〈◊〉 . in prect . Donec vires habeant ) that is , ( Till there be oportunitie , ) or ( e e Vide supr● cap. 6. Pro hac vice , for this time . ) Whereof our English State hath had too large experience . For to insist onely vpon the present : when the oportunitie of surprizing the King , Queene , and Prince , was plotted by the Disciple of Machiauell ; then the Pope hath two Priests ( Watson and Clearke ) to dissolue that knot of obedience : when after the oportunitie of that Sudden blow , against the whole State , had possessed the malignant ; then there is presently at hand a Prouinciall and his Priest subordinates to kindle the minds of their Agents , hellishly to consume and swallow vp both obedience , and all the persons to be obeyed .

That his Maiestie so gratiously wished there might be some meanes of compounding dissentions , and an vniuersall mariage betwixt temporall peace and truth of Religion , proceeded from his most Christian heart : teaching rather what you shold , then what you will do , who deny to remit any Romish superstition , though it sauour of meere noueltie . As is apparant in the Oration of Gasper in the Councel of Trent : where question was concerning the vse of the Sacrament in both kinds , according to the institution of our Sauiour Christ , and the vse Ecclesiasticall for a thousand yeares in Gods Church ; did resolue notwithstanding , no : but why ? Ne errasse videamur .

His Maiestie saith , All nouelties taken away ; you say , We wish no more . But if you would haue bene correspondent to his Maiesties wish , you should haue answered , We wish no lesse . But your modestie would neuer yet grant , that there were any nouelties in that Church , where notwithstanding there is nothing else but daily brewing new liquor , hopped with Wormwood .

His Maiestie hath expressed his meaning , to call the Romish Church our Mother Church ; as that Church Romish may now call Hierusalem : but when both mothers will be parricides , to murther their children which speake against Idolatrie their spirituall adulterie , they may be called mothers in name , in deede monsters .

You cite Bellarmine and omit this his sentence : f f Non licet tolerate Regem haereticum conantem pertrahere subditos ad suam opinionem . At iudicare an Rex pertrahat suos subditos ad haeresin nec ne , pertinet ad Pontificem . Bellar. lib. 5 de Rom Pont. cap. 7. § Tertia . It is not lawfull to suffer a King who is an Heretike , when he shall labour to draw his people to heresie . To iudge hereof whether he draw his subiects to heresie or no , is the proper office of the Pope . I suppose there is no Infidell in the world , endued with any opinion of God , but he would labor to draw his subiects to his opinion . Now then the cause of our King persisting to be a Protestant is no better then his Predecessor ; for it is yeelded to the Pope both to iudge who is an Heretike , and when he shall so iudge , then , according to his Libet to send from Rome , comes a Non licet tolerare Regem . Will your modestie neuer leaue deluding vs by pretended allegations of Iesuites ? as here to that purpose to giue hope of reconciliation , whereas onely by the insolencie of Iesuites all such hope is debarred . As is plaine by this forecited Iesuite : for whereas that most graue and learned Cassander , honored of two Emperors for his singular learning and pietie , did teach , that g g Debent Principes inuenire rationem pacis inter Catholicos , Lutheranos , Caluinistas , qui omnes , dum Symbolum tenent Apostolicum , vera sunt membra Ecclesiae , licèt a nobis in particularibus dissentiant . Cassander lib. de Officio 〈◊〉 viri . Emperors should indeuour a reco●…ion betwixt Papists and Protestants : because ( saith he ) Protestants hold the Articles of the Creed , and are true members of the Church , although they dissent from vs in some particular opinions . The grand Iesuite doth answer , that h h Falsa est haec sententia Cassandri , non possunt●n Catholici reconciliari cum Haereticis . Bellar. lib. 3. de ●aicis cap. 19. This iudgement of Cassander is false : for Catholikes cannot be reconciled with Heretikes , heretically meaning Protestants .

CHAP. XVIII .

The Discouerie .

WE haue alreadie vnderstood , how they forbid to Kings : now will we also examine how they inforce violence . And in this case we argue thus :

The fift Reason .

Whosoeuer suggesteth a doctrine of forcible deposing of Princes from their thrones , are therein manifestly rebellious : But all Popish Priests defend violent deposing of Kings and Emperors . Ergo

Their Positions .

Costerus . a a Penes Romanos Pontifices semper fuit potestas ad tollenda incommoda Ecclesiae , & damna animatum , Reges regnis , & Imperatores imperijs priuandi . Costerus I. s . Apol. pro part . 1. Enchirid. pag. 64. This power ( saith he ) of deposing Kings of their Crownes , and Emperors of their dignities , in behalfe of the good of the Church , was alwaies peculiar to the Pope : b b Non enim minus authoritatis á Christo collatum est Vicario suo ad ouium tutelam & commodum , quam à Villico datur Mercenario , qui pecora pascit . Ih. pag. 64 who hath no lesse authoritie , as Christs Vicar ouer Christians , then the hireling hath ouer his beasts . c c Depositio Imperatoris ex iusta causa pertinet ad summum Pontificem : quia Imperator est tanq●am Minister summi Pontificem , gladium Iurisdictionis temporalis ad nutum summi Pontificis exercens . Molina Ies. Tract. 2. de iustitia disp. ●9 . ●d 〈◊〉 . pag. 149. So the Pope hath authoritie ouer the Emperor ( saith Molina ) because the Fmperor is but the Popes minister , and is to vse his temporall sword onely at his becke . But what if Kings will not inthrall themselues to the Popes authoritie ? d d Non licet Christianis tolerare Regem haereticum , si co●…t●r pertrahere subditos ad suam haeresin . Bellar. ●es . & Cardinal . lib. 5. de Pont. cap. 6. 7. & 4. It is not lawfull for Christians ( saith the Cardinall ) to tolerate any King , who draweth his Subiects vnto heresie . e e Sed debent Subditi operam dare , vt in eius locum alius quamprimùm surrogetur . Sanderus Theolog. Pro●essor . devis●… . Monarch lib. 2. cap. 4. § ●us autem pag. 70. But subiects ought ( saith Sanders ) to indeuour to set vp another in his place . f f Debent illum , tanquam Christi h●…stem , ex hominum Christianorum dominatu ●i ▪ cere : quae est virorum doctis●imorum ind●…tata sententia , doctrinae Apostolicae conformis . Creswel . les . in suo Philopater pag. 194. Yea , they ought ( saith Creswell ) to expell him out of his kingdome , as the enemie of Christ . An vndoubted doctrine among the learned , and agreable to Apostolicall truth . Yea which is more : g g Etiam●i Pontifex toleraret Regem Apostatam , tamen Resp. Christiana possit illum pellere è regno quoniam Pontifex sine ratione permittit illum impunitum . Dom. Bannes 2. 2. quest. 12. A●● . 2. Although the Pope ( saith Bannes ) should tolerate an hereticall King , yet may the Commonwealth remoue him . And yet behold a greater mysterie of this iniquitie then all these : for suppose that the King deposed shall be willing to be reconciled to the Church , h h Nec 〈◊〉 hoc recuperabunt , quamuis poste● reconcilientur Ecclesiae . Simancha Instit. Cathol. ●it . 33. Sect. 11. Yet notwithstanding ( saith Simancha ) he may not recouer his Crowne .

The moderate Answerer .

i i Answer in his Chap 6. Let vs grant this Proposition , Whosoeuer , &c.

The Reply .

Let vs grant ? We know not by this whether you grant it by Asseueration , to allow it ; or onely by way of Concession , for disputation sake , as not to grant it . This your Art of answering would be discouered for of one Maior Proposition in your 4. Chapter you say , For this present I grant this Maior , and yet after in the fift Chapter of another Maior , This is the first Proposition I grant vnto . Wherefore sophisticating in this manner [ Let vs grant : ] & deluding a Proposition , which discouereth so manifestly a doctrine rebellious , will somewhat impeach your moderation of a guiltie disposition . To the matter .

The moderate Answerer .

k k Ibidem . Not one of these particular Authors defend violent deposing of Kings .

The Reply .

Though I know your deuotion can dispence with lying , if with an l l Insra . intent to couer the leprosie of your Sect , yet me thinketh , your discretion might haue taught you , to vse that Art where it should not be so transparent as that any one of small reading might easily conuince you . For what ? not one of your sect teach violence ? First , your Frenchman m m Vt Ichu lezabelem . Lib. de iusta Abdicat . pag. 57. So Lodouic . de Orleance . The Nobles must depose the King , as Iehu did Iezabell : there was violence . Your Parsons , n n Parsons in his Dolman . pag 33. As Dauid did Goliah : violence . Your Card. Allane . o o Allane in his Admonition . pag. 33. & 53. in the place forceited My Lords and deare Countrimen , for Gods loue fight against the Queene to depose her , as the Priests did Athalia : violence . Your Reinolds : p p Reinalds in his Rosaeus in the plowfurniture . Reuenge and roote out as Iudith did Holofernes : violence . Your Costerus : q q Vt Villicus pecora Costerus locis citatis . As an heardsman his cattell : violence . Your Bellarmine . r r Non licet subditis tolerare Regem haereticum , sed expellere eum debit , vt Pastor ●upum . Bellar. lib 5 de Rom. Pont. cap. 7. It is not lawfull to suffer a King hereticall , but to expell him , as the shepheard doth a Wolfe : violence . Your Creswell . s s Creswell in Philopater . Subiects ought to expulse such a King out of his dominion : violence . Your Simancha . t t Vide infra . As the Scythians , who murthered their King : violence . Your Bannes : u u Tenentur Anglivi Reginam suam deijcere . Infra . The English ought to depose their Queene by force , all which is violence . We hanc also alledged examples of many Popes , who vsed all open violence . To which might be added Azorius , Salmeron , Bristow , Stapleton and others , all crying Adarma . And yet you say , Not one . What impudent modestie is this , to denie before the Reader , that which none who readeth can denie : idlely conceiting a power to depose without violence , ( in your opinions Heretikes obstinate ) that is , such as cannot be deposed without violence . Your comparison of the Emperor with our King is but a shadow , which * * Vide supra . vanisheth in this Treatise following .

CHAP. XIX .

The Discouerie .

Let vs now see this family of Corah .

WE will omit Henries , Frederickes , Othoes , and like Emperors and Kings of former times : call but to mind that which hath bene visible in our dayes , the late Henry of Fraunce , concerning whom their owne Prophet hath published a Treatise , the scope thereof is this : a a Henricam dig●… regia excid●sse , Gallosue securâ conscient●â in cum , vt publicae sidei violatore bella●le . Lib. de iasta Abdicat . Henr. 3. pag. 370 The French haue with good conscience borne armes against K. Henry the third , and depriued him of his Crowne . Returne home , there we see a Comet . The Rebell Oneale is vp in armes against his Queene : the Colledge of Salamane bring pitch to quench this flame , and resolue thus : b b Eos omnes Catholicos peccare mortaliter , qui Anglorum castra contra Augonem Oneale sequuntur , nec posse ●os aeternam salutem consequi , nec ab vllo Sacerdote àpeccatis absolui , nisi priusquam resipiscant , & Castra Anglorum deserant . Determinatio Vniuersitatis Salamancae . Anno 1602. Whatsoeuer Catholikes shall not for sake the defence of the English , and follow Oneale , doth sinne mortally , and cannot obtaine life euerlasting , except he desist . Shall we thinke that other Priests can haue more loyall spirits ? Impossible , as long as they receiue their breath from that Maister , who commendeth the former Positions against the foresaid King of Fraunce . c c Theologi illi ●ecerunt quod Consultorum , Conse●●ariorū , Doctorum ●uit . X●stus Quintus Papa , vt habetur lib. de iust . Abdi● . Henr. 3. pag. 370. Those Diuines ( saith Pope Xistus ) haue done the parts of good Lawyers , Confessors , and Doctors . His Successor ( this rancor growing by Succession inueterate ) Pope Pius against our late Soueraigne : d d Volumus & iubemus , vt aduersus Elizabetham Angliae subditi arma capessant . Bulla Pij Quinti Pen. Max. We will and command the Subiects of England to take armes against Elizabeth their Queene .

The moderate Answerer .

e e Answer cap. 6. § Now let . Now let vs heare this the supposed publike practise in this point : I answer , he alledgeth three authorities onely of priuate men , which do not pronounce the iudgement to be publike .

The Reply .

You contest for all Catholikes , and teach vs to answer , that this your Answer is but the writing of a priuate man : but you haue publike approbation from your Superior , & they from many are publikely authorized . And yet againe remember your selfe . f f Answer cap. 2. § Lastly , let . Not aboue foure or fiue examples ( say you ) can be giuen in the whole Christian world , for the space of 1500. yeares of Popes of Rome , who haue translated titles to depose Princes . Well then you grant fiue ; your Bellarmine doth vrge g g Bellar. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 8. Seuen , as from publike Records : a notable contradiction . You But foure or fiue , willing to substract , as one ashamed of the number of your Fathers of Rebellions : but he alledgeth Seauen or eight , desirous to multiply , to make the pride of Romish Prelacie more glorious . Whether But seauen , or But foure , what can this auaile for answer ? As much as a fellon accustomed to steale , he careth not how many horses : yet indited for seauen , shall answer , I had but foure or fiue : which commendeth the want of that he would , not his will to want . Pope h h Paulus tertius Papa Principibus ac Ducibus Angliae caeterisque Nobilibus praecepit , vt vi & armis se Henrico opponant , illumue è Regni sinibus eijceren tantur , vt pate● in hac Bu la Pauli 3. qui sic incipit : Paulus Episcopus Seruus seruotum , ad futuram rei memoriam , &c. Petrus Matthaeus Comment●n illa Bullam . Paulus teruus did excommunicate Henry the 8. King of England , commaunding his Nobles to beare armes against him . Your Pope Pius Quintus , now alledged , Did excommunicate Queene Elizabeth , dissoluing all her subiects from their obedience . And yet he that is The King of Kings , maintained their Scepters , not to suffer them to be deposed by those Popes , notwithstanding their good wils were manifested by their acts , their acts condemned by the euents , which examples none can denie but were publike . You further adde .

The moderate Answerer .

i i Quo supra . § I answer . But his Maiesties case is different , except this Discouerer will inrolle him in the number of Excommunicate , which is most iniurious to his Highnesse : for who seeth not that the Queene was Excommunicate ?

The Reply .

Why iniurious ? what euill can ensue ? for you seeme by this Answer to portend some mischiefe , if it should happen his Maiestie should be excommunicate : say , what euill ? is it spirituall , as onely to be excommunicate by the Pope ? Why , this is nothing , because your Tolet saith truly , k k Excommunicatio iniusta est inuallida . Tolet. I●s . in instruct . & Azor ▪ Je● . Justit . Moral . An vniust Excommunication ( such as we know the Popish is ) doth not endanger the soule . Is it bodily ? belike his Maiestie shall find you a good Subiect , howsoeuer ( your spirituall being accompanied with violence in this his different case ) you teach his highnesse to prouide a corporall preuention , lest ( as in the defect of our lawe sometime it happened , that a man might haue bene out-lawed , and not haue knowne of it , and so subiected to the extremitie of that lawe ) your Excommunication of Bulla Coenae vpon your Maundie Thursday by some * * Faux did auouch the Maundie Excommunication for bi● warrant . Guido be closely executed before his Maiestie be aware .

CHAP. XX.

The Discouerie .

HItherto hath bene manifested only their violence against the dignitie of Princes : now heare of the violating of their sacred persons in conspiring their deaths .

The sixt Reason .

Whosoeuer doth intend , designe , or practise the murther of Princes , must necessarily be holden for desperate Traitors : But all Popish Priests are guiltie in some of these kinds . Ergo. The Minor proued by their Positions .

They professe all , that it is lawfull to take armes against their Kings , as we haue proued : from whence we may argue against them , as he against a seditious one , * * Cicero pro Ligario . Quis sensus armorum ? what other meaning can armes haue but onely bloud ? But not to dispute from our suppositions , but their Positions , by these degrees . First , the french defence saith , that Anie man may lawfullie murther a a Tyrannum occidere honestum est , quod cuiuis impunè facere pe●… , q●… consensu di●o . ●…a Abd●cat . H●n. 3. pag. 262. 〈◊〉 270. Tyrant : which I defend ( saith he ) by common consent . Now b b Facilè constat eum , qui quamcumque tuetur haeresin , apud Chustianos non minùs propri● perfecteque Tyrannum effici ; quim qui apud Philosophos , spretâ ciuitatum conseruatione , omnia in republica stupris , rapinis , & hominum caedibus implet . Reinald . in suo Rosaeus . pag. 157. It is euident ( saith our Reinolds ) That euerie Heretike Prince is most proper lie and perfectlie a Tyrant : which is supposed by the Spanish Iesuite , speaking of this point , That if ( saith he ) they may be bereaued of their liues , then much more of their liuings and Crownes . And , which is the height of furie , d d Imo grauiori paena digni sunt Principes haeretici , quàm priuati homines : lure igitur et meritó Scythae Regem suum Scylen occiderunt propter externos ritus , quia in Bacchanalibus sacris initiatus erat . Simancha Inst. Cath. tit . 23. Sect. 12. & 13. Hereticall Kings ( saith Simancha ) deserue more grieuous punishment then priuate men : therefore the Scythians ( as he well deserued ) did put to death their King Scylen , for violating their Bacchanals . Scythia a most barbarous Nation is the fittest glasse that these Priests can finde to looke their faces in . Well , shew vs then your Scythian and heathenish practises : But first , let vs heare your answere to these positions . c Vita priuari possint ; tum multó magis ommbus alijs bonis , atque adeó etiam praelatione in alios . Greg. Valent : som . 3. disp. 1 qu. 11. punct. 2.

The very moderate Answerer .

e e Answer , cap. 7. §. But against . I answere , that the late Lord Treasurer was thought in his dayes a man not second to manie in politicall wisedome : And yet he telleth vs in the booke entituled , [ The Execution of English iustice , ] that many Catholike Priests and Byshops also in this Kingdome , which although they were depriued of their dignities , and also imprisoned by Queene Elizabeth ; yet are they dignified by that wise Councellor , with these titles of faithfull and quiet subiects , inclined to dutifulnesse to the Queenes Maiestie .

Reply .

Nay , that honorable Treasurer was not second to any in his time , so worthie a Counsellor both for policie and sound Religion , that you may be thought vnworthie to commend him : whose wisedome as it was most excellent , so euen in this question will proue as sufficient to display your fellie . For his most commendable Treatise , of the Execution of English iustice , did defend the proceedings of the Queenes Maiestie ; whom for the same iustice your Pope did ( if our Lord Treasurer in his singular wisedome knew iustice ) vniustlie excommunicate . Yet he then commended many graue and learned Bishops and Clarkes on your side for their faithfull subiection . What though they then in the Orient of her Maiesties dayes were faithfull ? ( peraduenture because they then wanted force ) yet after , toward the Sunne-set of her years were otherwise affected . This the Reason of that honorable and sage Counsellor doth shew , bringing the examples of the former more moderate Romish Clarks by comparison to condemne the insolencie of the later brood . This you modestly conceale : But father Creswell will deale plainely , who speaking to the Lord Burleigh ( whom for honor sake I often mention ) hath these words : f f Si seditionem intelligis ( nobiliss . D. Thesaurarium alloquitur ) de qua Christus , [ Non veni pacem in terram mittere , sed gladium ] sanè intelligis ; fateor , Sacerdotes nostros tibi inobedientes esse & sore semper . 〈…〉 in Philop●●er pag. 298. & 300. If you by sedition ( saith the Iesuite ) vnderstand that whereof Christ spake , saying , ( an holie text wickedly peruerted ) [ I came not to send peace into the world , but the sword , ] which you ( indeed ) do so vnderstand ; I confesse that we Priests both are and alwayes will be seditious . Now then the question will be , whether your moderate , or his impudent answere be more dangerous .

The moderate Answerer .

g g ●…pra . § 〈…〉 . The sentencer discursseth , as though armes had no other meaning but blood . But against Catholikes , who knowe both offensiue and 〈◊〉 fensiue warre , this mans bloodie iudgement can giue no deadly wound .

The Reply .

Neither was your Sentencer ignorant of that distinction , which he learned long since from the very Heathen , who were illuminated with this truth , saying , that h h Contra Reges sumendum esse scutum , non gladium . Iucius . Against Kings we may vse a shield , but not a sword . But it was spoken according to the meaning of your Authors applying it to them , who both by position and practises haue giuen sufficient tokens that their armes were most cruelly and cursedly offensiue , which agreeth with your positions , as the discourse following will demonstrate . Yet againe you insist .

The moderate Answerer .

i i Answere quo supra . § Seeing . The Discouerer bringeth the Author de Iusta Abdicat . to say of Henry the third , that it is an act honest to kill a Tyrant . Well then , King Iames by his iudgement is a Tyrant : otherwise both he and the Author be iudges against himselfe , for that Writer expresly nameth a Tyrant .

The Reply .

And the next Author doth interpret the meaning of the first , That euery King , who defendeth heresie , is properly a Tyrant . This said your Reinolds , intreating of Protestant Princes , defining them to be properly Heretikes : whereunto your Iesuite Gregory de Valentia did assent . Whence I , according to the true and infallible lawe of Schooles , conclude , that Romish Priests would haue all Protestant Kings , as Tyrants , censured with death . Where is now your iudgement ? to make me guilty of that inference , which I noted to be most detestable in your sect ? King Iames or our late Queene Tyrants ? No , but they that say so be Traytors , who cannot discerne betwixt a most gratious Prince , and a barbarous Tyrant ; but by their monstrous mischiefes haue turned extreme clemencie into iust extremitie .

CHAP. XXI .

Discouerie in the Practise .

LEt vs trauell ( but in our thoughts ) into India , a a Arnoldas in Synodo Parisiensi omné Tyannidem Hispanorum apud Indos solis Iesuitis ascribit . Gal●… belgic . tom. 2. lib 10. where ( as your Arnoldus in his publike Oration in the Vniuersitie of Paris did contest ) the generall clamor of the poore people was , that Iesuits were the causes of all tyrannie which was exercised amongst them . Passe homeward through Germanie , there we see b b Rodolphus Comes contra Henricum 4. ( fulmine Greg. Pōt●sicis percussam ) bellum gessir , &c. Abbas Vrspurg . Cranzius , & alij in suis Cronicis . Duke Rodolph persecuting the Emperour his King by force of armes , thorough instigation of the Pope . From thence we come to France , where Clemens the Monke , as a bloudie patricide , did murther Henrie his King . Lastly to arriue at home , where after the Bull of Pius Quintus few yeares passed without desperate attempts against their Soueraigne , that Bull bellowing thus . c c Iubemus vt aduersus Reginam Angliae Subditi arma capessant . Bulla Pij Quinti . We will and commaund Subiects to take armes against their Queene . Which breath possessed all those late conspirators , Arden , Someruile , Parrie , Cullen , Squire , Lopez with others : all by instigation of Priests sought the death of our and their Soueraigne . And now at this present behold , and be astonished : A so●…ace prouided to consume at once , not onely the King , but also ( because an absolute state assembled ) the whole kingdome . Du●st these Enginers do anie such thing without direction from their priests ? First they conspire by oath vnder the seale of the Sacrament , ( here is probably a Priest . ) Secondly * * G. Faux . he that was to put fire to it , runneth once againe to the Seminarie at Doway , doubtlesse , to consult with that Priestly Oracle . Thirdly , he will not bewray his complices , except he may be warranted by a Priest . And that this is their Priestly function , will appeare in the subsequents .

The moderate Answerer .

d d A●… . §. For prac●… . For practise in this point , he onely alledgeth three authorities , besides this vnhappie Stratageme .

The Reply .

Your selfe knowes , that I might haue brought in threescore of that kind , if I had bene bent to haue bene as tedious in Allegations , as you are in repetitions : yet besides your late Stratageme I gaue you examples of diuers Conspirators English , for whom your modestie durst not , or your wisedome would not yeeld any other answer then dumbe silence .

The moderate Answerer .

e e Answer qu● supra . It is knowne that Arnoldus was an enemie to the Societie , confuted by Montanus : and Gallo-Belgicus is not without his hyperbolicall locutions .

The Reply .

You know , that Arnold was the choice Orator and mouth of the Vniuersitie of Paris elected to pleade against the Iesuites Society , whose iudgement the State and Parliament of France did iustifie by their publike act of expulsing the whole Societie of Loyalists out of the Kingdome . Gallobelgicus indeed was more then hyperbolical , but it was in magnifying the Romish faction . But what say you generally for Priests ?

The most moderate Answerer .

f f Answer cap. 〈◊〉 . § First . I answer concerning Priests most maligned in this matter , that the Canon lawe it selfe is to the contrarie : that neither Bishops nor any Clearkes may take armes either by their owne authoritie or by the authoritie of the Pope of Rome : and reasons be added there , authorized by g g De Episcopis verò vel quibuslibet Clericis , quod nec suâ nec authoritate Rom. Pontificis arma suscipere valeant , facilè probatur . Deer . 2. caus. 23 q. 8. de Episcopis . Gregorie the 13. alledged against vs in this Treatise . And therefore all of that Order are absolutely freed from that iealousie , and may answer with Saint Ambrose against Auxentius , saying for his defence : My teares are mine armour , for such are the defence of Priests ; otherwise I neither ought nor can resist .

The Reply .

The force of your Answer is this : There is a Canon contrarie to them that shall say , Priests may take armes : Ergo , Priests haue no Positions contrarie to the Canon ; or else is not your Order freed from all iealousie in this point . It will be therefore first materiall to shew the doctrine of your Priests concerning this militarie discipline of Priests . Was not the Iesuite and Author of the Booke , De iusta Abdicat. a Priest ? and yet he admonisheth h h Sacc●dotes primi ab oppressore religione discedant , & animos in●ictos induant , Elian imitantes , qui quadraginta Psendoprophetas interfecit . De iusta Abdicat. 57. Priests to be the first of them that forsake the Oppressor of Religion , imitating Elias zeale , when he killed the false Prophets . Was not your Reinolds a Priest ? and yet he would perswade i i Postunt viri sanctissimi Monachi quoque haeretico Regi vim pro side inferente , viribus quoque resistere , vbi probabilis est defensionis oportunitas : & qui hoc sanctissimo certamine cum Catholicis Episcopis contra Haeren●um Regem moriuntur , ij sunt Marty●…s , & a Deo , non vt perduelles patriae vel Regis , poenam , sed vt . Martyres Christi praemia coelo aeterna reportabunt . In his Rosaeus pag. 638. 639 & Rursu● . That holymen , euen Priests may resist by force Kings oppressing Religion , whensoeuer oportunitie will serue : and that dying in such a quarrell they are not to be accompted Traitors , but Martyrs , not deseruing punishment of God herein : but , as the souldiers of Christ , an eternall reward in heauen . Adding further , k k Graeci Sacerdotes optimi Imperatoribus suis armata manu resistere nunquam putârunt esse peccatum ; aut laesae Maiestatis crimen : sed contra potiùs scelus piaculare sese non opponere . Pag. 560. As the Priests of Greece resisting their Emperours , ( * A presumption absolutely false ) by force of armes , thought it not a sinne of treason , but rather iudged it an hainous crime not to resist . Your Cardinall Allane was a Priest , and yet he wickedly and falsely defendeth , that l l Allen in his booke intituled , A true and modest Defence of English Catholikes , pag. 107. The auncient Bishops might haue excommunicated Arian Emperours , and haue defended themselues against them by force , but they did not ( saith he ) by reason of the greater forces of the Persecutors . This Answer he calleth A true and modest defence of English Cathotholikes : which in his Admonition●e ●e indeuoureth to proue from the example of Gods Priest m m Allen in his Admonition to the nobilitie . pag. 31. Against Athalia . And againe , in behalfe of the Pope , whome you esteeme as High Priest , he saith : n n Allen in his true Defence . pag. 143. In truth if it be lawfull for the Pope to occupie his forces , which God hath giuen him , against the Heathen ; much more may he employ them against those , whom he accompteth Rebels against the Catholike Church , which be properly vnder his correction . Yet all this is nothing to the resolution of your Sanders a Priest also : o o Ad Episcopos spectat tum vt Regem ipsum pronuntient haereticum , tum vt Subditos eius declarent ab omni deinceps obedientia illi praestanda liberos esle , ipsosque operam dare debete , vt alius in eius locum quam primum surrogetur . Quod si nec subditi hac in re officio suo consulat , Pastorum est quacunque ratione possint , prou●dere , vt non regnet in Ecclesia . Dei . Sander . lib. 2. de visib . Monarch . Cap. 4. § Hac igitur . It belongeth vnto Bishops ( saith he ) both to pronounce the King an Heretike , and the Subiects , freed from their obedience , ought to indeuour to place another instantly in his throne : but if the Subiects shall faile in this their dutie , then it is the office of Pastors ( Priests ) to prouide ( Kings must looke to the Priests mixed Chalices , perfumed gloues , priuie sheaths ) by what means soeuer , that such a King raigne not in the Church of God .

Againe , who was it that would haue killed the now p p Ioh. Castile . vide Orat. Arnold . King of Fraunce with a knife ? was he not a Nouice deuoted to be a Priest ? And he that killed your last King Henry the third , I meane your Monke Clemens , had he no affinitie with a Priest ? Such an one was that q q Monachus quidam Iohannem Regem Angliae veneno interfecerat . Barck'a●us co●tra Monarchom . lib. 6. cap●… . De hoc fa●●o Clementis . Monke , who poisoned Iohn King of England . And who ( I pray you ) did commend and magnifie that your Clemens his desperate exploite ? You know who , Pope Xistus Quintus your high Priest . A fact also highly commended by your French Iesuite , ( sure one of your Priesthood ) saying , r r Aeglonem Moabitam alter Ahod , imo etiam sortior , in abdomine trai●cit , vociferatur laesum se Tyrannus : nihil iam est quod Iudithae Holophernem , aut Dauidis Goliam obtruncan●…s , aut Samsonem maxillâ Asini mille ●iros interficientis , historias ●…remur ; quia maiora his vidimus , qui clamaremerito debemus , Dextra Domini fecit virtutem : dextra Domini exaltauit nos . Author de ius●a Abdicat . That he is worthie to bee esteemed another Ahod , who killed Aeglon the Moabite ; yea more forcible then Ahod , for he ( the Monke ) stabbed the King through the guttes : so that we need not now to wonder at former histories , where we reade how Iudith killed Holofernes ; Dauid , Goliah ; Samson a thousand men with the iawbone of an Asse , this act is farre more maruellous . These be thy Priests , O Babylon : who boasting falsely of a real vnbloudie sacrifice of Christ to be offered to God : Now in later times by rebellions haue offered sacrifice to their Moloch the man of Rome in bloud .

Secondly , to this your consequent , Therefore all of this Order are absolutely freed from iealousie of Rebellion . As though in warre onely the figh●ing souldiers were enemies : doth not Reason in the Apologue teach you the contrarie ? For there * * AEso'us in Ap●l . qui s●c incipit , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 The Trumpeter that gaue the Alarme to excite men to warre , was taken of his enemies : and to free himselfe , O good Sirs , ( saith he ) kill not me , for I would neuer haue slaine any of you : alas , you see I haue no weapon , the onely instrument I possesse is this trumpet : to whome they answered : 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , therefore thou shalt rather die , because , when thou canst not fight thy selfe , yet doest thou incite and encourage others to fight . Your Order will make the morall : for in Fraunce your Reinolds did sound his trumpet for the battell thus : s s Vniuersa eo pertinent , vt milites , praefecti , daces , & ecclesiastici omnes , qui haec castra sequuntur , persuasissimum habeant haec esle bella Domini . Reinaldus in Rosaeus . pag. 155. All that we haue spoken are to this end , to perswade Generals , Captaines , and all Ecclesiasticall men , who follow the battell , that these are the warres of the Lord . Hearken another trumpet sounding so loude , that it is heard from Rome into Ireland , the Pope ( a Priest ) t t Dilecte vir salutem , &c. Tibi caeterisque qui sunt hodiè vnanimes & pro fidei Catholicae propagatione adhaerent , nostram & Apostolicam benedictionem impertimur . Literae Clementis . 8. ad Tyronem . Anno. 1601. Promising his blessing to Tyrone and all his adherents , who should fight for the Catholike cause against their Queene . And another in the same Ireland of the Colledge of Priests in u u Age . &c. Nam ei bello fauentes sanctis●imis Pontifex multis gratijs prosequitur . Colleg. Salaman . in Determ . Anno. 1602. Salamane , resounding Benediction of the same Pope to encourage the O●eale in the same warres . Listen yet againe , and you shall heare another terrible sound in England for the ioyning with the Spanish Armado , in that their expected inuasion Anno 1588. Cardinall Allane ( a Priest ) x x Allane in his Admonition to the Nobilitie of England . Anno 1588. pag. 53. Now therefore Lords , Nobles , and deare Countrimen for the honor of Knighthood fight . And lest we should be too deafe in sense , not to heare , or dull in heart , not to beleeue , that Priests secular were interested in these affaires : Parsons a Priest doth proclaime against the Seculars , ( who would seeme herein to be onely excusable ) saying , y y Parsons in his booke called A Manifestation of folly against the Important Considerations . pag. 24. Was not Doctor Storie , Doctor Lewis secular Doctors , who are knowne principally to haue furthered the action of Sir Thomas Stukesl●y for Ireland ? were not Ballard , Gifford , and Gartly secular Priests ? And of all Priests in generall . r r Si hant Seditionem vocas , gladium in terram mittere , & nou pac●m ; fateor Sacerdotes nostros tibi inobedientes esse , & fore semper , &c. Cresw●l in Philopater . pag. 300. This holy sedition , ( if you call it so ) which is to send warre into the world , I confesse our Priests do and will teach . These are the phrases of Baals Priests , except it be that those launced themselues , these let others bloud . These are their alarmes against Protestants , neither can we reade of any one of note among them , who by publike writing did euer sound a retraite . A question materiall : for if Popes were not pleased with all these abouenamed Positions and practises , shew vs where euer he did condemne seditious Priests . Can you then apply the sentence of holy Ambrose to this order ? Is this to pray for vs , and not to prey altogether vpon vs ? Wherein also I cannot but maruell at your modestie , who bring in an old Canon , teaching not to fight , to the end you may cloake their shame who openly professe they must fight : which is to couer a bald head with a Chrystall glasse . There is yet another point you would satisfie .

The moderate Answerer .

z z Answer Chap●… § Lastly & § For practise . Lastly , he addeth the late vnhappie Stratageme and conspiracie against the house of Parliament : but I trust that all Priests will be innocent in so vile a practise against our present Soueraigne .

The Reply .

If , as S. Gregorie calling the first transgression of mankind * * Greg. Magn●s . foelix facinus , an happy mischiefe : because of the euent , Quia talem meruerit habere Saluatorem : because it begat so gracious a Sauiour ; you likewise may call this , vnhappie Stratageme , because therby your mischiefe was preuented , & malice discouered ; then you are no better then a painted sepulcher outwardly presenting vs with hieroglyphicall showes of fellowship , and inwardly full ( through your hatefull wishes ) of dead mens bones . Yet I thinke you may presume that not any Priest will be found innocent in so vile an act : meaning till he be found : but many are found and conuicted : God , who hunteth out the vniust person , maruellously by the diuersitie or rather contrarietie of their languages , confounding them , as in the dissolution of Babell , each one of them impeaching another , A iust presumption , that scarce any Priest is innocent .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer ibid. And it is certaine it serueth not to his purpose to proue all Priests to intend such things . For first , the chiefest Priest the Pope had absolutely forbidden all disobedience to his Maiestie by these words : Quia Papa iubet , the obedience ; and prohibet , the disobedience : which the chiefe Superior of Priests in England in spiritual things , as the Arch-priest , had receiued and promulged the same commaund long since in August last . And vpon this first notice of this pretended wickednesse condemned it by his particular letters , for an intollerable and desperate fact against the order of holy Church , against the prescript of generall Councell , against the commaundement of the Pope . Then if the Priests of England will acknowledge the Archpriest for their Superior at home , or the Pope at Rome , as all both regular and other must do : neither all the Priests of this nation , nor any one , except disobedient to his Superior , was guiltie of this Conspiracie .

The Reply .

And yet behold your Superior a Iesuiticall Priest is found guiltie of this Conspiracie , but the frame of your Argument doth infold in it a Sorites , thus : The inferior Priests are subiect to their Superior the Anchpriest ; this Archpriest is subiect to the ( what is there a Chiefe aboue Arch - ? ) chiefe Priest the Pope . But the Pope hath commaunded dutifull subiection to the Arch-priest , to commaund subiection to the inferior Priests . Ergo all inferior Priests ( except they will be disobedient to their Superior ) will be faithfull Subiects . Wherein first I do obserue that in this gradation of your obedience to Kings the highest staire is the Pope . But the true Disciples of Saint Peter did soare higher , [ Propter Dominum ] to God and his word . And in the descent the last degree you make is a Priest : as though you would suffer Laymen in a blind zeale , with an intent to aduantage the Catholike cause , to practise any vile act , and you stand to giue ayme : that in the successe you may cry , Well shot ; but when they misse , the Actors may perish , and you cry out : O an vnhappie fact ! Otherwise by this series causarum it must as probably follow , that the Pope and Archpriest , and other inferior Priests are guiltie of this vile practise , viz. Euery Romish Catholike doth acknowledge a spirituall subiection to their Priests , euery Priest to his Superior , the Superior to his Generall the Pope . But many of the most deu●ute Romish haue bin found guiltie of this gracelesse attempt , Ergo the Priests , ergo the Superior , ergo the Pope . Or else the Pope failed to giue his proh●bet and restraint of disobedience to the Archp●iest ; or the Archpriest neglected to giue commaund to the inferior Priests ; or your other Priests foreslowed to forewarne the Laymen ; or ( which is the truth ) you are but spirituall Polititians , bearing the world in hand , that none of your mischiefes can be proued by vs , till , by the vpshot , they be proued vpon vs . And then those Priests and traitors , whom you now call vnhappie , Watson and Clearke will be of better esteeme . Thus hath your modestie made good gradation for the break-necke of your cause .

CHAP. XXII .

The Discouerie in the seuenth Reason .

SEeing * * Nihil interest faueá●ne s●ele●i , a●●llud facias . Seneca . It is in a maner all one to commit a villanie and to commend it : we may argue , that whosoeuer shall iustifie acts of treasons and parricides , are not vnguiltie of the same crimes : but all Priests do iustifie such hainous paricides , Ergo.

The Minor proued by their Positions practicall .

The famous Cardinall and publike Reader in Rome saith , a a Multi Pontifices Principes multos authoritate suà regiâ meritò priuârunt : vt Leonem 3. Fredericum 1. O●honem 5. Childe●icum Regem Francie . Card. B●llar . lib. 5. de Rom ▪ Pont. cap. 6. & 7. Many Popes haue iustly deposed many Princes . Our Count●iman b b In the Copie of his letter to Sir William Stanley . Card. Alane , c c ●eina●…n Rosaeus cap. 〈◊〉 . Reinolds , d d In his Dolman part. 1. pag. 62. Parsons , inciting subiects to armes against their Prince , do perswade by examples merely rebellious , as resisting of K. Iohn , of Edward the second , of Richard the second , of Henry the sixt , as presidents to be followed . The Author of the booke of e e Gratias agimus Deo immortali , qui operis huius fructum ( nimir●m parricidium Monachi ) tam benè anteuerterit . Lib. de iusta Abdic . He●r . 3. Deposing Henry King of Fraunce , doth sing a Gaudeamus for his death . And againe , Allane approueth the perfidious rendring vp f f In his letter to Sir William Stanley Anno. 1587. Douentore , and encourageth the English Mal-contents to ioyne their forces with the g g A Booke intituled , An admonition to the Nobiliue and people of England . The i●scriptio● : G●lielmus miserati one d●…i●… . S. R. E. Tit. S. Martini in montibus Cardinalis , cunctis regni Angliae & Hiberniae proceribus . Spanish inuasion . So the Colledge of the Iesuites at Salamane approued the insurrection of * * See aboue Rat. 6. lit . i. Tyrone . And do not the most of that sort canonize in their conceits all such Popish ones , as haue bene executed for treasons ?

The moderate Answerer .

h h Answer cap. 8. I grant the Maior , and denie his Minor , [ That all Popish Priests , &c. ] And haue proued that all such assertions are most false and slanderous .

The Reply .

And I haue proued from your owne Authors , that they are the doctrines , which you ( granting the Maior ) must confesse to be truly rebellious , and now further confirme it by many examples . Answer them in order , and because in the most you haue bene extrauagant , be intreated in this seuenth Reason to be regular .

The very moderate Answerer .

i i Answer ib. § But he . He will maintaine his sentence , because Bellarmine saith , [ Many Popes haue worthily depriued many Princes of their regall authoritie . ] The examples be in Leo 3. Fred. 1. in Otho 5. and Childericke King of France : to the which I haue answered before ; and sincere dealing would haue alledged the true causes , which knowne , proue a flat disparitie in the matter .

The Replie .

Whatsoeuer cause there was to wish any wicked Emperor to be deposed , yet was there neuer cause to authorize the Pope to depose him , which is plentifully * * Infra part. 3. proued .

But Popes ( you will say ) did formerly depose Emperors : as though from a case de facto , that is , of an act of deposing , you would conclude a case ex iure , that is , inferre a right to depose . This would be a welcome plea to malefactors of all kinds , and in this kind not a little preiudice your Popes : because Bellarmine being vrged with examples of many k k Christiani Imperatores iudicarunt & deposuerunt summos Pontifices ▪ haec quidem facta ●unt , sed quo iure ipsi vide●int . Bellar. lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. ●9 . § Argumentum quintum . Emperors who did iudge and depose Popes ; doth returne this answer : These Emperors indeed , did so , but by what right let them shew . So we driuing out one naile with another , oppose acts to acts , and say ; But by what right Popes haue vnthronized Emperors let vs know ? For we shall hereafter shew , that they had from God no such authoritie . Where is now your moderation to require of vs acknowledgement of iust causes of Popes acts , who ( you know ) proue that no cause can iustifie such proceedings ? If you yet insist , and vrge to know the causes , why Popes did so insult vpon Emperors , moderate your appetite a while , till we come to the confutation : where I doubt not but you will at least satisfie your selfe , if not surfet . For the interim , it will content the Reader to vnderstand that which your Barckley proueth , namely , l l In veris antiquitatis historijs exemplum nullum legimus cuiusquam Imperato● is , qui , propter haeres●… , per populum exactus abie●tusque fuit . Bar●klaiu● contra M●narchom . lib. 6. cap. 12. That in true historie it cannot be found , that euer heresie was a cause of abrogating the authoritie of Emperors .

The moderate Answerer .

m m Answere Cap. 8. § He accuseth He accuseth Cardinall Allane for approuing of the rendring vp of Douentore vnto the hands of the King of Spaine the true owner : by which he condemneth himselfe to be within the compasse of his owne conclusion of Rebellion : for all the world can witnesse , that towne truly to belong to that King .

The Reply .

Was the King of Spaine the true owner ? Who are you , I pray you , that can thus define ? if you will be a true Diuine , then learne from our Sauiour , [ * * ●uc . 12. 14. Who made me a Iudge ouer you to diuide inheritances among you ? ] If you will be ( according to your State-style ) a Statesman to iustifie that the King of Spaine was then the true owner of Do●entore , and for confirmation call all the world to witnesse ; we shall not greatly maruell at this in you , being of the Order of them , who would make that King the Monarch of all the world . How the case might stand I may be lawfully ignorant , excepting onely , that howsoeuer Sir William Stanley , being no subiect to either parties , but onely a substitute to the States , and subiect to his Queene , from whose command he had receiued that charge , he is therin intolerably perfidious : for if the right were doubtfull , then it is a conclusion , which your Iesuite cannot denie , but that n n In dubijs Subditus parere debet praefecti sui mandato ; possit miles suo Regi , Duci , vel Reip. in bello , obedire , vbi dubitat sitnè Principis bellum , quod aduersus alterum gerit , iustum : in tali dubietate non est quod dubitet , Principis mandato esse parendum , et hoc modo dubium remouendum . Azorius Ies. Iust lib. 2. cap. 19. § Nono quaeritur . When the souldiers shall doubt whether the warre ( and so the possession he holdeth ) which his Prince maketh be lawfull : in all such doubts he ought to obey his Prince , for euen to obey doth remoue the doubt .

Secondly , if the case were plaine , yet many things are lawfull to be done , which are not lawfull for this man or that man to do : for our Lawe saith , A man ( as he that shall go to his neighbours house , and take twenty pound he lent his neighbour ) may be hanged for taking his owne : and is there no iustice against him , who will render vp that which is not his owne ? But what his intent was he hath discouered to all the world : who , as he then , in violating his Princes repose , fled from her subiection , so in the inuasion in 88. was bent to returne , not as a good subiect , but as a mortall enemie against his Soueraigne .

Lastly , for the States in this point , suppose their getting of Deuentore were vniust , yet another Iesuite ( though I should condemne it ) would defend their possession , who in like case thus resolueth : o o Quidam specie forte pietatis grauit●r errant , ●us regium vocantes in dubium , quaerente●interdam quoiure & titulo Hispani dominentur Indis ; num haereditario iure ad nos deuoluti fiunt , an bello iusto nobis subiecti● ego existimo nullam aliam subtiliorem petendam esse causae euictionem , quàm quod vt demus maximum peccat●m esse in vsurpatione dominatus Indici : tamen neque restitui iam potest ; cui enim , & quibus modis ? neque si maxime posset , fidei susceptae euidens ini●…ia & periculum id vell● modo pateretur . Ioseph . Acosta Iesuit . Lib. 2. de Indorum salute . Cap. 11. Admit ( saith he ) that it was a great sinne for the Spaniards to vsurpe the Kingdomes and possessions of the Indian people : yet can they not ( * * For they are due to the posteritie of the Nation . O Confessors ! ) now be restored ; for to whom and how can this be performed ? nay though it could , yet will not the danger of decay of ( O Religion ! ) Religion permit restitution . Yet there remaineth another example to be satisfied of you , which is this .

CHAP. XXIII .

The Discouerie .

An example of a notable Patron of high Treason .

h h Xisti Quinti Pont. Max. de Henrici tertij morte Oratio habita in Consistorio Patrum . 2. Septembris Anno Domini 1589. XIstus Quintus maketh a publike Oration in his Consistorie of Cardinals : the subiect matter he sheweth is this : i i Mortuus est Rex Francorum per manus monachi . pag. 3. The King of France is slaine by the hand of a Monke . And what of this ? k k Rarum & memorabile facinus . This ( saith he ) is a notable , rare , and memorable act . But why ? l l Occidit Monachus regem non pictum aut fictum in Chartâ aut pariete , sed Regem Francorum in medio exercitus . Because he slue not ( saith he ) a King painted in paper , or grauen in stone , but the King of Fraunce in the middest of his hoast . Is it a wonder any should wonder that a Monke could murther a mortall King ; seeing Popish histories do record , that m m Hadrianus Pontifex excommunicationem Henrico 2 denuntians , ipse à Deo maledictus , à musca suffocatus est . Nauclerus general . 137. Pope Hadrian being guiltie of the like seditious practise against the Emperor Henry the second , was choaked with a Flie ? Nay , but if the Monke had killed a painted Image , that had bene an act farremore memorable , and lesse intolerable : notwithstanding no fact is good , because great ; but therefore great , because good . Say then what is to be thought of the worthinesse of the fact ? n n Facinus non sine Dei Opt. Max. particulari prouidentia & dispositione , ( pag. 5 ) non sine expressa eius voluntate , ( pag. 4. ) & succursu perpetratum . It was a fact done by the admirable prouidence , will , and succour of Almightie God . How ? by Gods will counselling and approuing it ? o o Nota quam insignis est historia illa sanctae mulieris Iudith , quae vt obsessam ciuitatem suam , & populum Dei liberatet , caepit consilium ; Deoque sine controuersia suggerente , de interimendo Holopherne hostilis exercitus principe , quod & perfecit . &c. pag. 8. Holy Iudith is famous ( saith he ) for the slaying of Holophernes , which she did not without the suggestion of Gods Spirit . p p Hic verò Religiosus aggressus est & rem confecit longè maiorem non sine Dei concursu . pag. 10. But this religious man hath done a farre more maruellous worke . O maruellous Relgio● ! Yet so it is in this sinne of parricide , where A Monke doth murther a King . The best word the Pope affoordeth the murdred is , q q Rex infelix , & in peccato mortuus . pag. 3 & pag 9. An vnhappie King , and one perishing in his sinne . The worst he doth bestow vpon the murtherer , is : r r Vir Religiosus pag. 9. & 10. Religious man . And thus in not condemning , but rather commending , one Traitor , he hath made vp two . Lastly , this Henry ( a note very materiall ) was a Papist ; onely he fauoured the Protestants , and especially Prince Nauarre ( because a Protestant ) excommunicate . By this Pope this was his crime , vpon which ensued , This fact ( to paraphrase truly of the Popes words ) rare for the attempt ; not able for the wickednesse ; memorable for the shame of the Sect.

The moderate And most modest Answerer . The Reply .

What nothing ? not one word in behalfe of Pope Sixtus ? Sixtus ; who a a Principum Catholicorum faedera in excidium haereticae prauitatis prohauit : & Rodulpho Impera tori per literas significauit Regem Nauarraeum , & Principem Condaeum ●…ede Apostolicâ excommunicatos & proscriptos esse , vt p●…m B●…llis huius Pont. Petrus Matth. cu● Sum. Constit . Rom. Pont in Arg. ante const. Sixti . Quinti . First did confirme the league in France for the vtter destruction of Protestants ? Sixtus ; who Did excommunicate ( in that name ) the King Nauarre and Prince of Condie ? Neither onely them , but expresly b b Nos excommunicamus at anathematizamus omnes Lutheranos & Caluinistas . Const. Sixti Quinti . Cap. 13. All Lutherans and Caluinists : proclaiming a c c Iubilaeum omnibus Christi fidelibus , qui in Ecclesijs regni Galliae pro selici contra haereticosvictoria &c. Orauerint cum facultate eligendi confessores , qui á delictis & criminibus etiam in bulla Caenae Domini contentis absoluant . Ibid cap. 16. Iubilie and indulgence for all in Fraunce who should pray for the successe of the Leaguers against the Protestants ? One to whom you ascribe power of absoluing you from all your sinnes , and yet not one syllable to free him from the suspition of ( but one sinne ) patronizing a most brutish parricide ? Could you not answer that his speech was onely an admiration and no approbation ; or that he did declaime onely and not determine ; taking vpon him the person of an Orator , and not of a Pastor ; or that he spake as a priuate Doctor , and not as a Pope ? Nay , all such answers ( you know ) had bene friuolous , for he vseth examples of commendation , arguments of asseueration , and the Oration was not pronounced in his priuate closet , but in the publike Consistorie and Conuent of his Cardinals . And therefore herein onely you haue giuen vs a token of your extraordinarie modestie , who not finding one ragge to couer your Fathers shamefull nakednesse , you shut your eyes , as loth to behold it . God grant you grace truly to detest it . But we find ( as in all Societies ) in your Synagogue men of diuers foreheads . For the * * Sixtus Quintus supra . Pope and his * * Bucherus li. de Iusta Abdic . supra . vide cap. 21. Acolythus do extoll the Monke for an Excellent instrument of God : whom your Lawyer doth decipher to be a d d Scelerati Monachi Cl: atrox & perfidiolum , ce● monstri teterrmi , facinus haereticis occasionem dedit calumniandi non hominem , sed ordinem vniuersum Monachorum . Barclaius lib. 6. conta Monarchom . cap. 28. & deinceps . Wicked , faithlesse Monke , ●nd a most hateful monster . He depresseth that King as One most impious and sacrilegious ; whome your Lawyers vpon better intelligence , do commend ( if this be a commendation ) e e Fuit mihi cum Patre Mathaeo antiqua olim amicitia , & intima familiaritas qui Regem illum Henricum 3. siquis alius intus , vt aiunt , & in cute nouerat , qui de Regis moribus sic mihi satisfecit : vis ( inquit ) vt dicam tibi quis Rex fuit ? vir bonus fuit , sed non perinde Rex , quia nimium religiosus esse studuit , qui deuotioni ac precibus deditus Regni curam nonnihil negligere videbatur , Barclaius ibidem . As one that was too deuout and religious . But you ( as it becometh a moderate Answerer ) answer nothing ; and thus in saying nothing bewray what you would , or rather , what you would not say .

CHAP. XXIIII .

The discouerie in the eight Reason .

THose Snakes that do naturally sting , as soone as they get warmth , may not be harboured in the bosome of the Commonwealth : but all Popish Priests professe rebellions , as soone as they can presume of their strength , Ergo , &c. The Minor proued by

Their Positions . The Discouerie .

Bannes maintaineth this as a necessarie Parenthesis : a a Sit haec tertia Conclusio : vbi euidens adest notitia criminis , ante declaratoriam Pontificis sententiam licet ( si modo vires ●i suppetunt ) Regem deponere . Domin . Bannes in Thom. 2 , 2. q. 12. Art . 2. Subiects before sentence of Excommunication ( if they haue sufficient force ) may then depose their King . This Father Creswell addeth as a war●e caution : b b Sit haec cautio adhibenda , vt vires habeant ad hoc idoneas subditi : alioqui in Religionis Catholicae praeiudicium cederet . Cr●swel in suo Philopater . pag. 198. & 199. Let subiects take heed ( saith he ) that they haue competent strength in such a case : otherwise it may preiudice the Catholike cause . And lest any taking an Antidote against their poyson , should obiect the condition of the Church of Christ primitiue , and of the glorious Christians of those times , who intended not killing of Kings the enemies of the Gospel ; but to be willingly killed for the profession of the holy faith : marke with what vntemperate morter those men daube vp the consciences of Christians , c c Quasi verò eadem instituendae Ecclesiae ratio atque institutae esse , credenda sit ; adde quòd id tum non licuit , dum impiorum multitudo superior esset : sed neque illi Christum professi erant , vt cogi in verba eius mortis supplicio possent ; sed tum demum , silicet , id datum est , cum impletum fuit id Prophetae , ( Esa . 49. ●3 . ) Reges erunt nutri●… tui , & in quae tempora venimus . Lib. deiusta addicat . Regis Henric. 3. p g. ●78 . Then ( saith the French Defence ) the Christians did onely suffer , because the Church was not yet perfect , and because their enemies were more in number . Againe , d d Illud non moueat quemquam ; id laudabile est quum resistere nequeas . Lib. de iusta ●…ag. 371. It is commendable to suffer when thou canst not resist . Which is the last miserable refuge of their desperate cause . Whereunto notwithstanding their grand-Cardinall is glad to betake himselfe . e e Quòdsi Christiani olim non deposuerunt Diocletianum , lulianum , Valentem ad s●…t , qu●a de●rant vires temporales Christianis . Bell. lib. 5. 〈◊〉 Ro. Pont. cap. 6. & 7. & 4. I answer ( saith he ) that Christians in auncient times did not beare armes and seeke to depose Emperors and Kings , enemies to the Catholike faith ; because they wanted power . Wherby the now Romish faith doth seeke to make wicked men excusable . f f Ex hac secunda conclusione sequitur , excusandos esse Anglos , quia non se eximunt ex superiorum potestate nec belium contra eos gerunt ▪ quia non suppetunt illis vires , ob sequentia pe●…la , D. B ●…s in 2. 2. Thom. quaest. 12. Art . 2. By this second conclusion ( saith Bannes ) the English Catholikes , who now do not take armes against the Protestants , are excused , because they want sufficient power . Hence we may perceiue , that as long as Protestants liue safe , they must acknowledge themselues beholden to the Popish faction , because they haue no power to hurt them : otherwise they may heare of them before they can see them , peraduenture in such a manner , as to * * The letter of Tresham to the L. Monte●gl● . Receiue a terrible blow , and yet not know who did them the hurt . Yea , they must perish , for g g Populus Christianus obsistere tenetur conscientiae vinculo arctissimo , & extremo ani●…um periculo , si prastate rem possit . Creswell in suo Philopater . pag. 201. Christian people ( saith Creswell ) are bound in conscience and hazard of their soules , to resist whensoeuer they can make resistance .

The moderate Answerer .

h h Answer cap. 91 § Thus he . To the first Proposition I say , Concedo .

The Reply .

Concedo , that is in English , I grant it : wo then , and thrice woe to all your Priests , who fall violently vpon it , thereby to be conuinced rebellious . Is it not so ?

The moderate Answerer .

i i Ibidem . To the second Proposition I answer , that if this be the opinion of Bannes , he speaketh ignorantly in this case .

The Reply .

Bannes an Author easily to be had of all men : I deliuer his name , I cite the place , I expresse his words , apparantly signifying that this was Bannes opinion : and yet your Answer is ( to speake moderately ) too moderate : If this be ( say you ) the opinion of Bannes . I alledge for the same opinion your English Iesuite Creswell , your French Iesuite De iusta Abdicatione , your Romish Iesuite Bellarmine , al of the opinion of Bannes , teaching , Then and not before , to take armes , as soone as they haue strength . And you answer to one onely saying : If this be the opinion of Bannes . Is this modestie ? This opinion ( say you ) is false : this is honestie : but then are your greatest Clearkes Blind , and leaders of the blind : as namely , Creswell , Felinus , Caietan , Tolet , Sà , Alane , Bellarmine , Saire , and the present currant of Romish Schooles , * * Supra . as hath bene proued . This doctrine therefore being false , which the supposed lights of your Religion do auerre , I may well take vp the complaint of our Sauiour against your Church : * * Matth. 6. 23. If the light that is in thee be darknes , ô how great is that darknes ! In the last place you name Gregorie the 13. for the contrarie , but ( all you could do ) only name him ; opposing names to expresse writings , shadowes to things . O moderatorem ! These are but Positions . Now followeth

CHAP. XXV .

Their Practise .

The Discouerie .

IN the yeare 1580. when Campion and Parsons came into England , they procured a dispensation from the Pope , that al Papists in England , notwithstanding the Excommunication of the Queen , might professe a large obedience in al temporal causes : but with this addition , ( Rebus sic stantibus ) i. the case thus standing : that is , ( as the sequele did interpret ) till you waxe stronger . For in the yeare 1588. when the Spanish Armado was a sloate , when by doubling their strength they might presume the better , then our Countriman Alane doth write an Admonition to the Nobilitie of England , making his booke the Popes Nuncio , to expound his former Parenthesis : a a In his booke of Admonition . Though the Pope ( saith he ) hath tolerated obedience vnto the Queene in temporall conditions : yet now our holy Father Xistus Quintus doth discharge all men of their faith and loyaltie vnto her . This is the Popes common guise , when he doubteth his faction shall be ouermatched , then to inioyne obedience : but it is onely in policie to gaine his souldiers a breathing ; as Clement the late Pope dispensed with the Irish for their fidelity to the Queene , till that he had some confidence of Tyrones successe . For then in the 20. of Ianuarie the yeare 1601. he writ a letter for incouragement : b b Clemens Octauus . Fili dilecte , nobilis vir salutem , &c. My deare sonne all health , &c. After he calleth the Rebellion Sacrum foedus , an holy league ; promising in the way of blessing an happy successe : Deus pugnabit provobis , conteret inimicos suos ante faciem vestram . i. God will fight for you , and tread his enemies vnder your feet . But he ( God be thanked ) proued a false Prophet .

The moderate Answerer .

c c Answer quo supra cap. 9. § But where . I answer , that Cardinall Alane , better acquainted with these affaires then any Protestant Writer , relateth the Popes declaration for Catholike obedience to Queene Elizabeth , without any restraint or limitation : neither doth this man discouer where he findeth any such restricting clause .

The Reply .

It seemeth you are not acquainted with Cardinall Alane : shall he be brought to auerre a Commission of subiection without restraint of , [ Rebus sic stantibus , the case so standing : ] who , Rebus sic non stantibus , Anno 1588 raised English Recusants against the Queene , prouoking them to * * Supra . fight ? I did not indeed discouer where I find any such restraining clause . Here is one onely little clause , Rebus sic stantibus , that wanteth the Author ; and I must be suspected for a coyner : you in all your Answers scarce alledge the expresse sentence of any one , and yet challenge credit . Such are the times which are fallen vpon vs , and the oddes which by mens wilfull infatuation , you haue obtained . But I must produce my Author , for your pleasure : whom though I perswade you , yet ( a grieuous case ) will you not be perswaded . Notwithstanding hearken to your Father Creswel , who telleth you that , d d Quae quidem moderatio id exposuit , Subditos Anglicanos , non obstante primo Ecclesiae mandato , Subiectionem obedientiamque suam , sicut antea Reginae , exhibere in rebus omnibus ciuilibus , saluâ conscientiâ , [ pro praesenti terum statu : ] modó in rebus Ecclesiasticis summam obedientiam summo Pastori deferant . Creswell . ●n his Philopater . pag. 204. That moderation concerning obedience vnto the Queene , was comprised within . these lists , [ For the present state and condition of things . ] Here your clause and your expectation is satisfied : I pray you satisfie me in the next example .

The very moderate and modest Answerer .

The case of the Earle of Tyrone , whatsoeuer it was , is not now imputed against him , as his libertie and fauour in England since then be witnesses : therfore it might be better suppressed , then vrged by this Discouerer .

The Reply .

That is , The Earle of Tyrone his offence hath bene pardoned by the King : Ergo , it might better be suppressed , then that the Pope the patron of his Rebellión , should be discouered . None can find fault with the modestie of this Answer , wherin you seeme to be ashamed of the Popes blessing ; and there is hope in the end , you will be ashamed of your owne answer . To the next Reason .

CHAP. XXVI .

The Discouerie in the ninth Reason .

WHosoeuer doth perfidiously either denie or violate , with men of diuers Religion , an oath , the most sacred bond that * * Ier. 4. 4. God hath allotted vnto men , as the most secure * * H●b. 6. 16. Confirmation of all fidelitie with men , and * End of all contention , must necessarily be esteemed of them as a person perfidious and trecherous : But Popish Priests are guiltie of such perfidie , Ergo , &c. The Minor will appeare in these three : 1. in the manner of disallowing : 2. of deluding : 3. of dissoluing of a necessarie oath .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answere . cap. 10. In his Maior Proposition the Discouerer must needs make some exceptions : or else , &c.

The Reply .

Let vs descend to the seuerall Propositions , and after shew your instances .

The Discouerie . From the manner of denying a requisite oath , we reason :

Whatsoeuer seruant being demanded of his maister , to say or sweare , whether if he saw his master assalted by his professed enemies he would defend or betray him , would either dislike the article , or deferre the answer , he should euidently bewray a trecherous disposition : But all Popish Priests in like articles concerning loy all subiection to Protestant Kings , are in like manner affected . Ergo , all their other kind of * * Matth. 26. Haile Maister , is but to kisse and betray . The Minor proued by

Their Positions and Practises .

When as it is demanded of Priests ( a necessarie Article in ciuill States ) what if the Pope should autorize the Queenes subiects to rebell , or other forraine Princes to inuade her Realme ; whether they would take part with the Queene or her enemies ? First , they dislike this Interrogatorie . Alane calleth it a a Allen in his booke intituled , A true Defence pag. 68. 70. An vnlawfull , vnnaturall , & intolerable search of mens consciences . This kind of examination which Princes make for preseruation of the liues of themselues and subiects , Creswell tearmeth b b Examen iniustissimum , & postulata sanguinaria . Creswell . in s●o Philopater . pag. 350. & 351. Vniust and bloudie demaunds . And these questions Stapleton nameth c c Nouae & captiosae , in quibus inest inauditum quoddam nequissimae impietatis , & barbarae calliditatis exemplum . Sapl●ton ▪ in suo Didymus . pag. 205. 206. Captious questions , wicked , and full of all impious subtiltie . As though Samson were bound to put his head in Dalilahs * * Jud. 16. lappe . Nay but their answer sheweth that this Interrogatorie was as necessarily inuented , as it is wickedly impugned : for this being an inbred law of * * Nata lex , quam non didicimus , sed à natura exhausimus . Cicero pro Milone . Nature , to studie for a selfe-preseruation ; these men call vniust and vnnaturall : but how senslesly let the very heathen iudge , * * Vt iugulent homines surgunt de nocte Latrones : vt teipsum serues non expergisceris ? Horatius . Theeues watch to murther , doest thou not awake to saue thy selfe ?

Now secondly , their delaying . When the question is vrged , whether , if the Pope or any of his appointment should inuade the land ; which part they would take : then they shift footing , and some ( as our Gouernors haue obserued ) haue answered : I will then take counsell when the case shall happen : others , I will answer then and not before : others , I am not yet resolued : lastly , I shal then do as God shall put in my mind . As though these masks were large enough to shadow their faces : which their Creswell hath alreadie discouered , saying that d d Si Pontificis iussu de Religione restituenda bello decertaretur , se conscientiâ saluá facere non posse , quin pa●tibus Catholicis adhaereant . Creswel in suo Philopater . pag. 352. If by the Popes command the warre should be vndertaken , to the end of restoring Religion , then ( to answer ) that he is bound in Conscience to hold with the Romish . This man speaketh without Parables : make then but a pretence of Religion , and farewell subiection .

The moderate Answerer .

e e Answer quo supra . § Now , &c. in fine Sectioni● . There is none bound generally to euery oath : for as the lawe of nature , and his Maiestie , with Bishops and Nobles , in the last Conference taught : if the Article either touched the parties life , libertie , or scandall , he may refuse to sweare .

The Reply .

This Answer and my Question differ as much as yesterday and to morrow : for my argument à simili concludeth of an oath concerning a matter to be done , and not of that which is past : yet not so , as to enforce any to the oath de futuris , but from the denying , or delay thereof to euince a politicall demonstration of a disloyall heart . You haue another answer no whit more true , though somewhat more pertinent .

The very moderate Answerer .

f f Answer quo supra . § As concerning . As concerning Interrogatories de futuris contingentibus , things which are to come : no creature , man , nor Angell naturally can perceiue them : therefore the examen of such things may be left to God .

The Reply .

You haue reason to refuse the examination of men , lest they ( vnderstanding your trechery ) might preuent their owne danger : I dare say , there is no malefactor in the world bent to any mischiefe , but he is of your mind . But you are deceiued ; the question is not absolutely de futuris , that is , of things to come , as if your debtor promiseth to repay you this debt , may he not answer he will pay it ? The act of payment hath respect to the time to come , but the will to pay it , it is an internall and present act , and a resolution of the mind , which no perfect man can be ignorant of in himselfe . Nemo nescit se velle quod vult : No man can be ignorant of his owne will . And this is that present will , which by his outward messenger , the tongue , he doth thorow a corporal oath manifest to man , what it doth resolue . Else why are leagues betwixt Princes , contracts betweene man and man , consent of wedlocke , holy vow in Baptisme to God : are not all these visible acts , symbols , and signes of inward will ? Acts ( I say ) de futuris of things to come , as namely , of fidelitie , loyaltie , sanctitie hereafter to be performed ? Otherwise how is it , that you dare contest g g Answer cap. 10. § Now. For all Catholikes , not to refuse an oath of allegeance according to the iust proceeding of law ? promising in your selfe , that other shall take an oath of allegeance and obedience to his Maiestie , A thing ( except you meane they will not take the oath ) hereafter to be done . Wherfore when you are about to make an answer , take foorth this l●slon of true moderation ; It is better to hold your peace , then say nothing .

CHAP XXVII .

The Discouerie .

THe second point is their deluding of an oath by a new tricke of Equiuocation , as they ( vnproperly ) terme it . Others call it Reseruation : but most fitly we may cal it Collusion .

Their Position in the Mator .

a a Cùm Iude● non iutidicè peut iuramentum , vel contra iustitiam , li●et vti aequiuocatione secundùm mentem suam , contra mentem Iudicis ; vt puta , quaerenti , fecistiné illud ? Respondeat non feci ; intelligendo inter se , non hoc tempore , aut , vt narrem tibi ; aut aliquid simile . Tollet . Card lib. 4. Instit. Sacerd. cap. 21. & 22. When any Iudge ( saith one ) shall demaund an oath vniustly , then may the examinate sweare by an equiuocation : as for example : being thus demanded ; Whether didst thou that fact or no ? he ( though he did it ) may answer , I did it not ; vnderstanding secretly in his mind , at this time ; or , I did it not , meaning , to tell you : or some such like euasion . If you desire to know the Author , it is Cardinall Tolet ; if his authoritie , b b De hoc illustri Cardinali Gregorius 13. Pontifex sic scribit : Dilecte fili . &c. Tanta est tua doctrina , que longo & inumo vsu nobis cognita est , vt tua scripta , sicut caeterorum al●orum iudicio atque examini subijci aequum non sit V●sques I●s Epist. de dicat . ante Com. in L●ue. Vasques the Iesuite sheweth he had a speciall priuiledge from Pope Gregorie the 13. writing thus vnto him ; We so approue of your singular learning , that we hold it vnmeet that your bookes should be subiected to the censure of others .

Now their Assumption in this case of our English iustice , concerning examination of Priests is : c c Officiarij Reginae Angliae non iuridicè iuramenta exigunt ; quia Regina haeretica non est Regina . Martinus in lib. R●solut . Cas●●m . The Officers of the Queen of England ( saith Martin ) cannot challenge Answers and oathes iud●●iously , because an hereticall Queene is no Queene . Vpon this sand is builded that which they conclude , namely , Alane , Parsons , Gregorie Martin , that d d Si Sacerdos interrogetur in portu , vel alibi , de antiquo suo nomine ab aliquibus , qui cum habent suspectam , possit respondere , illud non es●e suum nomen : atque eodem modo si interrogeturde pat●…a , parentibus , amicis . &c. Resolutio quorundam c●suum Nationis Arglican● . If a Priest shall vpon suspition chance to be asked either in any hauen , or else where concerning his ancient name , his countrie , kindred , or friends ; he may denie all . And againe : e e Cùm Sacerdos sistitur ad tribunal , vbi adsunt magistratus regni , accepto iuramento , possit ille prestare iuramentum aequiuocando , quia , qui quaerunt non ●…ridice interrogant , cum sint Tyranni , & velint punire bona opera . Ibidem . When a Priest is conuented before a Iudge , after the oath taken , concerning such questions , he may answer by the foresaid Equiuocation : because these that aske this oath , are not to be accompted Iudges , but Tyrants . Which point of Equiuocation ( saith * * Parsons in his briefe dpolog . fol. 193. Parsons ) is not onely to be allowed by all Diuines , but iudged necessarie also in some cases for auoiding lying and other inconueniences . This man , we see , ( as if he would driue out Satan by Satan ) teacheth by lying how a man may auoide a lie . This is the generall doctrine of their * * Sèe Aquinas . Schoole , more then heathenish : for among Pagans this was a Decree of Conscience : f f Fraus non dissoluit , sed distringit periurium . Cicero . Craft in an oath doth not lessen but strengthen periurie .

Now the Practise .

The practise of this deuice of Equiuocation in Priests hath bene found to haue bene common of late , by experience of Magistrates . It may be thought to haue crept out of Saint Francis sleeues . For g g Sanctus Franciscus rogatus quâ perrexisset quidam homicida , qui iuxta cum transierat ; manus per manicas immittens respondit , non transi●sse illac : intelligens , non transi●sse per illius manicas . Nouar . Tom. 3. cap. 12. He ( as Nauarre writeth ) being asked which way the murtherer did flie ; putting his hands into his sleeues , answered , he went not that way , meaning , through his sleeues .

The moderate Answerer .

h h Answer quo supra . § This. For Tolet among the Iesuites I cite another Iesuite , famous among the Casuists , * * Quidam dicunt eum , qui non tenetur respondere ad intentionem Rogantis , posse respondere aliquid subintelligendo , vt non e●●e sc●licet , ita vt ei dicere teneatur● vel se non habere , sc. vt ei det . licet alij id non admittunt , & for●… poti●ri ratione . Eman. Sà . in Apboris . 4. Emanuel Sà , who writeth , that some are of another opinion , and peraduenture with better reason .

The Reply .

If you oppose the persons of these Authors , there is ( in the opinion of a Iesuite ) no comparison ; if their opinions , there is scarce any opposition . For their persons : Tolet was lately a Cardinall , i i Illustrissimum Cardinalem Baronium , inter Iesuitas recensere est , ac si inter infimae magnitudmis stellas Arcturum imperitus numeret Astrologus . Seraries Ies. in Minerual aduers . Scalig lib. 4. cap. 1. But to recken a most reuerend Cardinall ( speaking of Baronius ) among the Iesuites , ( saith a Iesuite ) is as if a fond Astronomer should number Arcturus among the lesser Starres . Examine now their opinions , Tolet saith : This kind of Equiuocation is lawfull ; Iesuite Sà saith , There is more probable reason to the contrarie . These may seeme contrarie to men of syn●eritie , but among these speakers , in their practicall iudgement , there is no contradiction : for they haue another winding in this their Labyrinth , that k k Frequent'r quidem opinio probabilior non est eligenda . Azor. Ies. J●…t . Moral . lib. 2. cap. 16. § Tertiò quaeritut . 〈◊〉 modo Tolletus Jes . Inshuct . Sa●e●d . Many times the lesse probable opinion is to be followed . So then as yet we haue but an Eele by the tayle . Againe , to determine against so damnable a doctrine onely in these termes , More probable ; yea and peraduenture more probable : I say , to doubt of such a Protestant and orthodoxall truth , is doubtlesse to denie it . But of this hereafter . How will you therefore excuse your selues ?

The moderate Answerer .

l l Answer quo supra . § For our . For our excuse in this place and question Catholikes do generally agree , that to equiuocate before a competent Iudge ( such as we allow all Magistrates in England to be in temporall causes in as * Infra in the 3. part . ample manner , as if they were of our Religion , keeping order of lawe ) is a mortall sinne : as it is defined by Thomas , Nauarre , and others .

The Reply .

This excuse will make you more inexcusable , because I shall proue that by your dissembling parenthesis you do but cloake your liars . Are all Magistrates in England reputed of your Equiuocators competent Iudges ? So you answer , but falsely , both against your ordinarie Thesis and practise : For in your Positions your now-cited Author Nauarre ( I omit Thomas , as one not acquainted with our English affaires ) saith , that , m m Coram haereticis ( loquitur de Iudicibus Anglicanis ) potest Catholicus vel recusare ( quod est prudentius ) vel sophisticè iu ●ans & interrogatis , ni●i quantum interrogatur de fide , sophisticè respondere . Nauar. cap , 12. num. 8 . It is lawfull for a Catholike ( except it be in question concerning his faith ) to equiuocate ( speaking expresly of English Magistrates ) before Heretikes . Your Reinolds was by birth English , by baine Romish , and telleth vs plainely , that n n Episcopi tenentur fidei suae commissos instruere , vt á commercio Regis Haeretici abstineant ▪ & ei nec in bello , nec in pace opitulentur : vt omnes Idiotae ratio cinari discant , Talis vir Haereticus est : Ergo in nos , qui Catholici sumus , authoritatem nullam habet . Reia●ld . Rosaeus . pag. 335. All people must be instructed thus to reason , ( speaking of the King of France when he was a Protestant ) This man is an Heretike , therefore hath no authoritie ouer vs . Your Parsons , English by nature , though now translated into Romish , commending your Southwel , o o Parsons in his briefe Apologie . fol. 193. This point of Equiuocation M. Southwell ( saith he ) defended ( before English Protestant Iudges ) at the barre . The booke intituled , Resolution of English cases , by Alane and Parsons , resolueth thus : p p Cùm Sacerdos sistitur ad tribunal , vbi suut magistratus ciuiles regni , & for●an aliqui pseudo-Episcopi , non tenetur quis respondere ad interrogata , sed possit vti aequiuocatione , quia non iuridice interrogatur , cum sint Tyranni . Rosolutio casuu● . Nationis Anglicanae , p●r Alanum & Parsonum . When ( say they ) any is brought before those Magistrates to be examined , they may answer by Equiuocation : because they being Tyrants do not examine iuridically . This was then in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth : but now in the raigne of our Soueraigne King Iames , it may be the case is different . Nay now also hath your Arch ▪ priest authorized the booke in defence of Equiuocation in behalfe of Catholikes ( the words of the title ) before a Magistrate : speaking professedly of our present English State : and the present practise both of Priests and their Disciples is ( alas ! ) so ordinarie , that the daily experience of their equiuocating lying is readie for this your answer to giue you the lye . I will not trouble my memorie with multitude of examples , which diuers Magistrates haue reported : I will onely be contented with two , proued the last day in the Arraignment of Garnet the Iesuite your Superior .

Garnet : He ( as before almost al the Honorable of our State was proued ) had by manifold protestations and execrations denyed before the Lord Chiefe Iustice , and his Maiesties Atturney Generall , that he had conferred with his fellow Hall since their coming into prison : by and by was witnesse produced , who heard their conference , and related the very words so directly , that both Garnet and Hall did confesse , they indeed had had conference together . What was his excuse now for his first Answer ? He did equiuocate , ( his owne words at the Barie ) because he was not bound to accuse himselfe , before he saw witnesse to conuince him . An answer wretched and witlesse ; wretched ( I say ) because to vse equiuocation in a religious execration , is execrable wickednesse : witlesse , because to defend a denyall of truth , till one be conuicted of a lie , is to professe a defence of an vntruth , till he be not able to defend it .

The second example is in your Disciple M. Tresham , who vpon his death-bed , moued by a sinister spirit of a woman to retract his former true confessions , wherin Garnet was brought in suspition of the last treason , ( least the guilt of such a Priest , might be preiudiciall to the Catholike cause ) did before the formerly named Magistrates at the point of death recall his foresayd confession thrise with protestation : Vpon my saluation ( saith he ) I was not acquainted with Garnet this many years . After his death is Garnet apprehended , and examined of that point of acquaintance with Tresham , who did vnder his hand writing confesse both the times and places of their conuersing together : al this Garnet did acknowledge at the Barre . Then the right Honorable the Earle of Salisburie , ( whose rare wisedome did in that vmuersall audience proue it selfe often the only racke to that Iesuite , in extracting many truths from that Equiuocator to his often publike confusion ) asked him : What iudge you , M. Garnet of that false protestation of M , Tresham he made vpon his saluation ? Garnet smiling , answered . I thinke he did equiuocate . Smiling , a thousand beheld him . A very ridiculous answer indeed , if it had not bene horribly impious , which therefore the whole audience , as children of truth , did then by a common murmure openly detest .

To conclude , I must now ( my moderate Answerer ) necessarily racke you : but ( feare not ) onely by that Logicall instrument , which is therefore called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : thus : you would perswade vs that Priests thinke our Protestant Magistrates competent , before whom you may not vse Equiuocation : your Superior , by whome ( if you be a Iesuite ) this your booke was priuiledged , did both by practise and position more then allow the vse of Equiuocation the last day , euen in a most honorable presence . Now therefore if your booke was not priuiledged by Garnet , then this inscription of your booke , * * Answer in the front of the book . [ With licence of Superior ] is vntrue : if you say he did priuiledge it , then this excuse for all your Priests , saying : [ We allow Magistrates in England co● petent , before whome we may not equiuocate , ] ( Garnet gaine ▪ saying it ) is likewise vntrue .

The greatest difficultie now will be , to tell whether of you two be the Superior in lying : you in saying , You do not defend that , which you do so manifestly defend , a flat lye ; or he , who defendeth that , which no man can euer defend , Equiuocation , the very damme of all damnable lying . Whereof more at large in the Confutation .

Yet behold a greater mysterie of this iniquitie , then hath bene yet reuealed : Tresham taketh it on his saluation , that , to his knowledge , no Priest was acquainted with the plot , Digby and others make the like protestations at their death : Garnet a Priest did deny with maine and many protestations , that he had conference with Hall , and defended it lawfull , till he was conuicted by witnesse . To what end ? lest that Priests guiltinesse might make their priestly function and Religion more odious . Whence I may conclude , that it were more then sottishnesse for any Protestant to beleeue the Priests protesting their innocencie ( as Garnet did ) at the Barre , or their disciples protesting ( as Tresham and Digby did ) the innocencie of Priests and their adherents at their death : I say , all their witnesses deserue no credite , who defend thus to equiuocate , till they be euidently conuicted by witnesse .

CHAP. XXVIII .

The Discouerie .

The third abuse of Oathes is in dissoluing them .

THat though they take an oath of allegeance in cases temporall , yet their common interpretation is still with respect of their more supreme head . * * See before Reason 4. lit . c. During the will of the Pope , who ( say they ) hath power to free both himself and others from the bond of an oath . Which is their old glosse , saying , that a a Debuit intelligi , nisi Papa remittat ei iuramentum : Nam in iuramento excipitur authoritas Maioris . Glossa ad Decret. lib. 2. tit. 24. cap. 10. The case is so to be interpreted , namely , except the Pope shall release him from his oath : because in euery oath the authoritie of a Superior must be excepted .

The moderate Answerer .

b b Answer cap. 10. § This is . There must needes be some exception of lawfull oathes , else whatsoeuer wickednesse is sworne must be performed : as that of the Iewes against Saint Paule ; and of Herod against the Baptist .

The Replie .

There must be some exception of an oath , which is this , In male promissis rescinde fidem : that is : A wicked vow is well broken . But your Popish exception for two respects we iustly think intolerable ; this will be plaine by this example : If now the Spanish , in his league vpon expresse conditions with the English , would , for the performance of his oath , depend vpon the Popes arbitrement , which is , [ Till you can find oportunitie for a mischiefe , ] then silly English are in no better case then a goose tyed with a line by the legge to a foxe tayle , which doth appeare in the Discouerie following .

The Discouerie . Practise .

Their practise we haue shewed in the former Reasons : we may here adde a more auncient example . c c Canonicus qui dan● inuehitur in Greg. 12. Pontificem , quòd tempore magni schismatis , antequam Pontifex crearetur , iurauer at publicò & ●olenni ●itu , se se abdicaturum Pontificia dignitate : Postea verò Pontifex electus , noluit Pontificatum deponere . Azor. Ies. Ins●it . Moral . lib. 5. cap. 15. A Canonist ( saith a Iesuite ) did inueigh against Pope Gregorie the 12. who in the time of a great schisme did openly and solemnely sweare , that if he were made Pope , he would giue it ouer againe : but being elected , he performed nothing lesse . The Canonist , doubtlesse , wanted not a Canon to condemne this perlurie , though the Iesuite vpon presumption of iusta causa doth defend it . For the cause was indifferent , whether to giue ouer his Popedome , or to keepe it : but the oath of indifferent matters doth inferre a iustice in performance , and condemne the not performance of periurie . Who also in the same Volume holdeth their generall position saying , d d Aliorum quoque iuramenta possunt Pontificis authoritate relaxa●i . Ibidem . lib. 11. cap. 9. Other mens oathes may be dissolued by the Pope . So that when the Pope shall send but his Bull of freeing our English , the bond of their oath will proue as strong as the knot of a Bul rush .

The moderate Answerer .

e e Answer Ibid. But to speake vnto this Obiector concerning Protestants proceeding in equiuocating .

The Reply .

But first , men should be so modest as to couer their owne bald pates , * * Of the Answer for Protestants see the 2. part . before they note others of like imperfections .

The moderate Answerer .

ᶠ I plainely answer , that all Catholikes of this Kingdome both Priests and others , do and ought syncerely to acknowledge his Maiestie absolute and really a true King of all his kingdomes , &c. And that among other duties to denie to sweare , or violate an oath , iuridicè , iustly and according to the course of lawe proposed , and to equiuocate therein is a sinne damnable .

The Reply .

In this your protestation by these words , It is damnable to vse Equiuocation before them iudging , iuridicè , iustly and according to lawe , I doubt much that you your selfe vse some damnable Equiuocation : for what is ( I pray you ) iuridicè , iustly ? may you Priests take a corporall oath before a ciuill Magistrate whomsoeuer ? this is against your owne Decrees . g g Coram Iudice & Magistratu ciuili nunquam Sacerdos ●urat , etiam Episcopi consensu : at Episcopus facit vt coram se Sacerdos iuret . Azo● . I●● . Ins●it . lib. 11. cap. 11. § Sexto quaeritur . A Priest ( saith your Iesuite ) may not take an oath before any ciuill Magistrate , though the Bishop should ●●cence him thereunto .

Secondly , call to mind the forme of our English oath , To acknowledge no forraine power either of any King or Prelate to haue any preheminence ouer our Soueraigne ( to insist onely vpon this branch ) in causes temporall , either directly or indirectly . Say now , will you be sworne to this or no ? If you shall say , you will not , take heed , then shall you be a Preuaricator , denying that which you wold seeme before to defend . If you say , you wold , which all yours say , * * Videsupra . The Pope is indirectly suprem in temporall causes . Bellar●… . Aadagaine The Pope may dis●olue oathes . Vide supra Rat. 4. lib. 〈◊〉 . you may not , then are you ( whom you would seeme not to be ) a damnable Equiuocator .

CHAP. XXIX .

The Discouerie in the tenth Reason .

WHosoeuer is possessed with these former seditious Positions , that ex Officio , that is , as he is a Romish Priest , he must professe them ; such an one is to be iudged a most desperate Traitor . But all Romish Priests , as Priests , professe some , and othersome all of these seditious Positions , ●…go , &c.

The Minor 1. proued , 2. confirmed .

Proued by an argument of Relation : that seeing the Auth●… of this rebellious doctrine are the principall Rabbies of 〈…〉 Sect , and publikely authorized with the ordinarie pr●… of that Church ; it may not be imagined , but that the 〈…〉 are infected with the leauen of their Professors & D●… bouenamed . To wit , 1. Tolet a late Cardinall , whose 〈…〉 haue this speciall priuiledge by Pope Gregor●e 1● . ᵃ That ( 〈…〉 Vasques the Iesuite ) they may without censure or examination of any be published to the world . Now the booke wherein these positions or rather poysons are contained , is intituled , De Instructione Sacerdotum : that is , The Booke of instructions for Priests .

2. Cardinall Bellarmine publike Reader in Rome , in his Booke intituled , Of the Pope of Rome , dedicated to b b Be●…o , Sanct●ssimoque Pat● X●…o Quinto P●●t . Maximo Rob. Bellarminus . In princ●…i●i ep●●t . ●…cat . d●… T●m . Roman . 〈◊〉 Quintus Pope of Rome , and authorized by the same Pope of Rome to no other end , but ( as he confesseth ) c c Ad eos ●●uene ●…uendos qu●… à Tran●…●egio●●bu , Authorit●s tua reuoca●● . 〈◊〉 d. To instruct those Scholers , whom his Holinesse did send for from beyond the Alpes , that is , all Scotish , Polish , Flemmish , Danish , and English extrauagants .

3 Cardinall Alane created of the same Pope Xistus Quintus , Anno Dom. 1588. to the like end : for in the same yeare when the Spanish inuasion was intended against England , he published his booke intituled , An Admonition to the Nobility of England .

4 L. Molina Diuinitie Reader in the Vniuersitie of * * Ebornensis . Ebor.

5 Gregorie of Valentia Diuinitie Reader in the Vniuersitie of * * Ingolstadiensis . Ingolstade .

6 Doctor Stapleton , Diuinitie Reader in Lo●aine .

7 Dominicus Bannes Diuinitie Reader in the Vniuersitie of * * Salmaticens●s . Salmat . Another much infected with the same leauen , and yet priuiledged in Spaine with these commendations : * * Legi & expendi diligenter iussa & imperio Senatus , F. Dom. Bannesij Cathedratij Sacrosanctae Theologiae in Salmaticensi Academia in 2. 2. Dom. Thomae Commentarios . & nihil reperi lima dignum , sed admiratione vt appareat fore opus Theologis vtilissimum , & fructuosissimum . Idque ego ratum mea fide iubeo . Frater Daques Regis Hispani● Consessarius in coment . Francisci Ban●●sij . A worke admirable , and profitable for all Diuines . Dignified also of the Friars , called Minors , in these termes : e e Ne tam glorioso open sanctae obedientiae meritum deesse contingat , hoc ipsum ei praecipimus in virtute Spiritus Sancti sub formali praecepto , In nomire Patris , Pilij , & Spiritus sancti . Amen . non obstantibus in contrarium quibuscunue . Fratrem Minorum de D. Bannesij Commentarijs Encomium . Aglorious worke , which lest it want his deserued obedience , this we challenge in the power of the holy Ghost , vnder our formall commaund ( without all exceptions ) in the name of the Father , Sonne , and holy Ghost , Amen .

We haue also alledged the resolution of the Iesuites Colledge of the Vniuersitie of Salamancha in Spaine , Anno Dom. 1602. As likewise Creswell his Philopater , printed at Rome , Licentiâ Superiorum , by the licence of the Superiors ; signifying the Iesuites there . What shall I need to mention Reinolds ( in his Rostus ) a Doctor of Diuinitie , and chiefest man in the English Seminarie at Rhemes ? Father Parsons ( in his Dolman ) a principall Rector in the Seminarie at Rome ? Seeing all these be Seminaries , you may trie the young plants by their fruites . If any desire further experience in this kind , he may consult with Carolus Molinaeus , and Pontus Tyardaus , both Parisiens , and but euen now , before I can reade them , to be read of all men .

The Confirmation .

It will not be denyed of any Priest , but that in these Popish Seminaries he hath vowed obedience to his generall Fathers in those schooles : and it is as notorious , that all Generals are absolutely enthralled to their chiefe Generall the Pope ; all of them as hands and feet to worke and walke , as that their head shall deuise . Which ( as we haue heard in Gregorie the 7. Gregorie the 9. Pius Quint us , and others ) haue absolued Subiects from all obedience , and charged them to take armes against their Emperours , Kings and Queenes excommunicate , &c. Shall we now imagine , the old Foxes being such , that their cubbes can degenerate ? If euer any of that kind gaue hope vnto vs , it was the secular Priests ; who for a fit did write many things very truly against Iesuiticall rebellious Practises : but after , perceiuing the Recusants to withdraw their beneuolence , as rather deuoted to the Iesuites , and that the Pope also tooke part against them , they , searing their consciences , wholly submitted themselues vnto the Arch-priest , whose commaund vpon occasion is countermaunded by the faction Iesuiticall . So that now we may aswel expect grapes from thorns , or a white Aethiopian , as loyall subiection from this Religion .

The moderate Answerer .

f f Answer cap. 11. § The tenth & § And whatsoeuer . His tenth Reason is no new Reason , but an Epilogus of the former . But I answer , that the Catholike Students neither of Englandn●r of any other Nation are bound to defend their Masters reading , but in matters of faith and generall receiued doctrine .

The Reply .

Nay , it is a different and demonstratiue Reason , taken from the formall cause of conspiracie and consent in such practises , because Doctors and Disciples with you , are more then Relatiues : for what can most of your Priests say here , but as School-boyes , Dictata Magistri ; and as Infants , who receiue no more food , then that which they sucke from their nurces . A matter notorious : and how ( I pray you ) may we better , then by the doctrine of your Generals , know what is your generall doctrine ?

The moderate Answerer .

g g Answer ibid. These Assertions are most falsely obiected , for the Scholers do not vow any obedience to their Superiors ; and that obedience which they follow , is in obseruing the Collegiall Rules .

The Reply .

Yet they acknowledge obedience , as a due thing , h h Non sub modo praecepti , sed sub modo perfectionis . Tollet . Tract . de 7. Peccat . mort . cap. 15. Though not in the bond of precept , yet of perfection . And I thinke your vowes do arrogate perfection .

Secondly , it is requisite you should shew vs some reason , why your scholers should in these points dissent from their Masters ; and whether we shold rather beleeue you herein , liuing in cryptis , or them who for their excellent learning , dominantur in Cathedris , your doctrine couched vnder a bushell , or theirs within their publike and priuiledged bookes , set as it were on the house top .

The moderate Answerer .

i i Answer Ibidem . in sia●sectionis . And yet there is not any one sentence alledged from any of them or any other Catholike , which in his true sence will bring any preindice to our most holy innocent cause : as I haue demonstrated .

The Reply .

In his true sence , say you ? Why ? by what reason can you challenge my sence of vntruth ? k k Answer supra . Because the authorities be falsly applyed . Why so ? l l 〈…〉 . 1. ●…g . Because this particular Reason , whereupon , as 〈◊〉 most certaine foundation , his arguments are built , is this , Protestants are by vs accounted Heretikes and excommunicate ; which is most false . O , this then is the onely cause you can pretend , but seeing * * ●…ll ●…s 〈…〉 . it is confirmed by impregnable demonstrations from Popes and all Popish Authors , that Protestants by all Papists ( though heretically ) are esteemed as Heretikes : it will demonstrati●ely follow , that all the authorities I alledged are rightly applyed , and all the crudities of your indigested answer sufficiently dissolued . Whether therefore that doctrine , whereby detestable lying , vnder the shadow of Equiuocation , is authorized for truth ; where desperate Rebellion is aduanced in the pretence of Religion ; where most barbarous massacres of Christian people , and monstrous murthers of Kings and Princes are magnified as glorious Stratagemes , be preindiciall to the holinesse of any cause . I dare call heauen , earth , yea and hell also to witnesse between vs . Thus I leaue you as persons conuicted of high Treason , ( God grant you grace of repentance ) and now I proceed to pleade the cause of Protestants generally impeached by you as persons guiltie of the same crime .

The second Part , containing a Iustification of Protestants against slaunderous imputations , obiected vnto them by this Answerer in two points , Doctrine of Rebellion , And sacrilegious Aequiuocation .

CHAP. I.

THE second kind of answer in this our moderate Answerer , is by Recrimination , to make Protestants as much , or rather more guiltie of crimes Rebellious , and Aequiuocations , then the Romish sect .

First is the case of Rebellion , 1. generally , 2. more particularly .

1. In generall .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 1. § Lastly . Let the Discouerer battle himselfe against his Protestant brethren , which , of all the people in the world that euer were , or will be , are most guiltie in these proceedings . b b Ibid. § Fourthly . ●t cap. 15. in initio . & cap. 7. § We haue . All iumping together in this conclusion , that Kings differing in Religion from them , are not worthy to be accounted either Princes or men , but must be deposed . We haue read and seene many conspiracies and rebellions proceeding from the dogmaticall men of this profession , and their Rebels s●aine in their actuall rebellions , and approued of them , and canonized for holy Martyrs .

The Reply .

Lowd clamour and lewd ! Which your generall accusation must haue a general satisfaction , to shew that it is childish , extrauagant , and slaunderous .

As childish as your boy-trick , when , about to be conuicted for a truant , you accused some other for fellowship . Admit then this to be a true recrimination ; yet , as S. Augustine reasoneth of two kind of theeues , so may I of diuers kinds of rebels . c c Horum duorum non ideo alter bonus , quia peior est vnus . August . lib contra mendac . cap. 8. in initio . This theefe ( saith he ) is not therefore good , because the other is worse . Can the one of these be saued by the other mans halter ?

2. Extrauagant : wandring out of the circuit of the question , thus , The question was whether Romish Priests can be true subiects vnto our Protestant King : you would satisfie by examples of Protestants disloyaltie to Romish Gouernors . Suppose it be so , although we condemne all such Protestants , yet here is your iniquitie : those Protestants in the Romish regiments , you call Rebellious traitors ; and yet you Romish , in Protestants kingdomes , will be called dutifull and faithful subiects : contrary to the naturall law of all equitie , Feras legem , quam fers : To be iudged by your owne law ; and acknowledge your like case with such Protestants ( if yet there haue bin any such ) worthy of the like condemnation .

3. Slanderous : for those , whom you in this place accuse rebellious , in another place by consequent you acquit as innocent d d Answer cap. 2. § Therefore seeing . Protestants ( you say ) alledge this Scripture , [ * * Rom. 13. Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit : ] Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers , &c. to proue Princes supremacie . By the which also Protestants proue , e e Primum probant Pont. Romanum nullo iu●e posse imperare Principibus secularibus , nedum eos regnis priuare , etiamsi illi priuari alioqui mereantur . Hoc docet omnes ( intelligit Protestantes ) hoc tempore , vt Caluinus , Martyr , Brentius , Magdeburgenses . Bell 〈…〉 . lib. 5. de Ro●… Pont. cap. 1. in initio . That the Pope of Rome ( saith Bellarmine ) ought not to ouer-rule Princes , or depriue them of their regiments , although otherwise they deserued to be depriued : of this opinion be all Protestants . Now I would demaund of any indifferent Reader , whether they do suffer any to resist , who chalenge euery one ●o acknowledge obedience . We may deuine now , what moderation you will keepe in the rest of your accusations , who haue thus plainely confuted your selfe in this first .

CHAP. II.

The particular Recriminations are fetched from diuers Kingdomes . First ( to begin at home ) England .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 7. § I haue . The Discouerer hath made a fond argument against the Protestant ministers in England conuinced of sedition , for taking armes against their Soueraigne .

The Reply .

I would this your obiection were such , whereby we might onely charge you of fo●dnesse , and not of falshood also , and malice . For of the Church of England your Iesuite hath giuen a contrary verdit ; b b Anglicani Protestantes Principem Christianum etiam in causa Ecclesiastica Superiorem agno●cunt . Salmeron Jesuita com . in Epistol. Pauli in gener . disp. 1● . § Verum . s●●●king of the latter dayes of K. Henry the eight . The English Protestants ( saith he ) do acknowledge their Christian Prince supreme , euen in causes Ecclesiasticall . Which is true in his lawfull sence . But here againe we behold the spirits of giddinesse : you defame the English Christians , as denying due subiection to their Soueraigne : your Iesuite accuseth the same English for yeelding more then due . But I leaue you both to battle together , you to accuse him of impudencie , and he you of stupiditie . This hath bin of English onely yet in generall . Next you

CHAP. III.

Descend vnto Indiuiduals in our English nation .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 1. adfinem . § Fourthly . I must put the Discouerer in mind , that he hath beheld his visage too much in the glasse of Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , Sands , Rogers , and all Protestants of all places . What haue these men done ? b b Answer cap. 3. repeating it § Against , &c. It was the consent of these and the chiefest Protestant Bishops and Diuines , that Queene Marie might be deposed ; and not onely she , but her sister Queene Elizabeth a Protestant , which was put in practise both with wit and weapons , to the vttermost of the Protestants power by the Duke of Northumberland and Suffolke , and many others of great estate : and not this only against the expresse statutes of the kingdome , but their owne oath to the Lady Marie in her fathers life . c c Answer cap. ▪ 4. repeating it , in initio . Thus did these wth their Protestant Preachers and forces against the succession of Queene Elizabeth . d d Answer , repeating this , cap. 9. § For England . For England I haue spoken already more then I desire , had not such wicked accusations against vs vrged me to the breach of silence . Now I will onely say , that the publike and dogmaticall positions and practises of rebellions by the greatest Protestant subiects of this kingdome , the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffolke , and so many Nobles to be passed with oblinion , with the whole Cleargie , against not onely God and their Queene , but oathes of fidelitie to King Henrie the eight , that I am bold to affirme , &c.

The Reply .

No maruell though you be bold to affirme thus much concerning the knowledge of these things , seeing you ( verifying the vulgar article ) are herin blind . Seeke therfore into historie , the light of veritie , and life of antiquitie , and you will easily see how much you haue bin ouerseene .

First your boldnesse , touching historie , hath presumed to affirme , that e e Answer cap. 10. § Secondly . K. Henrie the eight did illegitimate his two daughters M. and E. and after declared the contrary , making them legitimate by statute . I haue inquired into the Acts which are extant , and I find three Acts , whereby the aforesaid daughters were disabled , as namely in annis 25. 28. 33. of King Henrie his raigne . But for establishing of them in the right of succession , I think you cannot shew it , except it be in anno nunquam , canone nusquam .

The case is more manifested by the answer of the whole Councell to the letters of Queene Marie , wherein she now after the death of King Edward made chalenge to the right of the Crowne . The Councels answer is thus framed . f f The Counc●l● letters to Lady Ma●ie . This is a-against the sundry Acts of Parliament remaining yet in force , confirmed by the King of famous memory Henrie the eight , against the letters patents of our late Soueraigne King Edward the sixt , and his great seale , against the consent of the most part of the noble Vniuersities of Christendome , &c. Wherefore you , that tell vs of a statute of Legitimation , as a matter euident , in modestie shold not haue concealed your euidence . Otherwise you know in a proposition copulatiue , if but one point be true , the whole is a lie .

Say then , whereof can you accuse Cranmer , Ridley , and all Protestants , wherein you will not make King Henrie the eight , King Edward the sixt , and many Parliaments guiltie ? I did neuer heare the whole state of any kingdome termed Traitors but by your boldnesse : If you had strooke at the head of that opposition , you should not haue needed to haue lopped the branches : for if King Henry might haue spoken from the dead in the day of the succession of Queene Mary , he would haue pleaded the cause of the opposites , as Dauid did in the behalfe of his people , Oues hae , &c. It is I : these other what haue they done ? Notwithstanding we acknowledge her succession iust : and after the proclamation of her title , shew vs what Protestant euer resisted ? what Minister of the Gospel in all that fierie trial did kindle the least sparke of sedition among her people ? Was it because they wanted hope of succession ? Behold there was the hand-maide of God , Elizabeth their hopefull successor to the Crowne . Was it for want of power ? why death is rightly described to be a Giant , hauing a thousand hands , able to giue any liuing creature his mortall wound . But I abhorre to discourse of these rebellious conceits . Lastly , of all Protestants which were burned in Queene Maries dayes for Religion , name but one that was accused of treason ; I require instance but in one : an apparant demonstration , that their Religion taught them loyall subiection .

The second Instance for England . The moderate Answerer .

g g Answer cap. 3. § Against . Repeated , cap. 4. § But. Sir Thomas Wyat warranted by Protestants Cleargie , with diuers others in the short regiment of Queene Marie may be giuen for instance .

The Reply .

The Historie relateth the pretence of Wyat , thus , h h H●…shed Chro A Proclamation against the Queenes marriage , desiring all English men to ioyne for defence of the Realme , in danger to be brought into thraldome to strangers , who be Spaniards . The like was the Proclamation of the Duke of Suffolke , Against the marriage with the Prince of Spaine . Where auouching his loyaltie to the person of the Queene , layed his hand on his sword , saying , Hee that would her any hurt , I would this sword were at his heart . Againe , there is recorded the Oration of Queene Marie against Wyat ; where there is not to be found any scruple concerning the ( subiect of our question ) cause of Religion : neither was there ( to make it more apparant ) any Minister of the Gospell brought in question , as a commotioner in that cause . Though therefore it is requisite that that which is lawfull , be performed by lawfull proceedings ; yet if intent ( the subiect of this dispute ) might answer for Protestants accused in that name , then is it plaine , that it was not Religion : if for Wyat and his fellowes , it is as plaine it was not against the Queene or State , but for both , that the whole land might continue in their former subiection , and that by Spanish insolencie , her Highnesse preheminence and soueraignetie might not be impared . Let vs heare

The third Instance for England . The moderate Answerer .

i i Answer cap. 4. Goodman published a booke , concluding it lawfull to kill Kings transgressing Gods lawes themselues , and commaunding others to do the like .

The Reply .

If I should iustifie this Goodman , though your examples might excuse him , yet my heart shall condemne my selfe . But what doe you professe to prooue ? All Protetestants teach Positions rebellious . Prooue it . Here is one Goodman , who in his publike booke doeth mainetaine them . I haue no other meanes to auoyde these straites , which you obiect , by the example of one , to conclude All Protestants in England rebellious , then by the example of * All the rest , to answer there is but one . And now let me be beholden to your moderation , to remember multitudes of your Priests , Iesuites , Cardinals , and Popes in their publike authorized bookes , Bulles , Decrees ; and now you requite mee with one . But shall one dramme of drosse prooue the whole masse no golde ? Let vs therefore leaue this Goodman , as a man , who by his vnauthorized , wicked and false positions hath falsified his name . You proceed

The fift Instance against English Protestants . The moderate Answerer .

k k Answer cap. 2. § And whence ▪ The English Protestants notes vpon the Bible ( as his Maiestie is witnesse ) do not disallow the killing of Princes in such case : as is shewed by the booke of Conference , pag. 47.

The Reply .

It will be requisite , without preiudice to the most learned and religious iudgement of his Maiestie , to satisfie for two places related from that conference . The first place touching the act of the midwiues of Egypt , who mercifully spared the liues of the infants of the Hebrewes , notwithstanding the commaundement of the King . The note : [ Their disobedience herein was lawfull , but their dissembling was euill : ] And was not this disobedience lawfull ? Let vs consult with the holy Ghost , Heb. 11. 23. where it is written [ By faith Moses when he was borne was hid three moneths of his parents , neither feared they the Kings commaundement . ] The same is the case of the [ midwiues disobeying the commaundement of the King . ] Now that which is noted by the Spirit of God , as commendable in the parents of Moses , may it be condemnable in these mercifull midwiues of the Egyptians ? Nay , for it is also written , [ * * Exod. 1. 15. & 20. The midwiues of Aegypt feared God , and did not as the King commanded them , but preserued aliue the male children , and therefore God prospered them . ] But we must discerne in this act two colours , white and blacke , which S. Augustine distinguisheth : l l In vi●…andis pueris , opus mi●ericordiae fuit ; mendacio vero illo pro se vtebantur ne noceret illis Pharao : non ad laudem , sed ad venia pertinebat . August . Quaest. super Exod. 1. They did a worke of mercie in preseruing the liues of the yong babes ; but they did lie vnto the King for safeguard of their owne liues : The first deserued prayse , the other needed a Pardon . Therefore this their lawfull and mercifull disobedience for preuenting the bloudie Massacre of Infants , can be no president for your practises intended in malice , to end in the bloud of Protestants of all sorts . The other point of the note against Dissimulation , doth indeed crosse your equiuocating profession : but you are not to be offended with vs , if we condemne that as sinfull , which ( as S. Augustine saith ) * * ●…m su●a . needed a pardon .

The second place , 2. Chron. 15. 16. the Text , [ King Asa deposed Maachah his mother from her estate , because she had made an Idole in a groue . ] The note , Mother , or Grandmother , yet herein the King shewed that he lacked zeale : for she ought to haue bene burnt by the Couenant , as vers. 13. And by the law of God , Deut. 13. but he gaue place to foolish pittie , and would also se●me after a sort to satisfie the lawe . The truth then of this exposition ( as al Orthodoxal Comentaries shew ) is grounded vpon the direct Scripture , the Oracle of truth : for in the law , Deut. 13. 6. & 9. If thy brother , &c. the summe whereof is repeated in the Text in question , vers. 13. ] Whosoeuer will not seeke the Lord God of Israel , shall be slaine , whether he were small or great , man or woman . ] What shall we say then ; is the Soueraignty of Kings disabled ? God forbid , but it is rather established hereby : for the King is made the Deposer , yea euen of whosoeuer . Now that Commentarie doth not defend deposing a King , neither possibly can it be defended by any ordinarie commaund of God in all Scripture : which is * * Infra . proued . Wherefore supposing that the Relation of the Conference be direct , yet may you not thinke that his Maiestie ( whose iudgement is so diuinely illuminated by the light of the word of God , that he neuer refused Conference with the greatest Iesuite or Doctor Romish ) could take exception to the note , as from an offence thereby giuen , but onely in suspition , an offence taken by weake ones prepossessed with your Romish maladie , whereof you haue giuen vs experience in your many controuersies . For wheresoeuer in all Scripture almost you feele but any sent of fire , O behold , this doth * * Vide Apolog. Cathol. Part 2. lib. 5. cap. 40 & d●… . cep● . Proue Purgatorie fire after death . Whereas indeed the context is plaine , there is onely signified * Afflictions of this life . Where you reade promised Reward for goodworkes , there you presently conclude , Amerit of Condignitie ; when as all is the onely iustice of Gods promise , and the consequent of the onely grace and mercie of God , who giueth to will , to worke , to perfect , and crowneth his gift of grace , with the grace of the gift of glorie . I may not digresse . Here doubtlesse his Maiestie doubted lest some impotent Reader , not ignorant of your suggestions , vnderstanding a Prince deposed by the King , might iustifie your proceedings , where so many popishly inspired , haue assumed the office of Kings , to depose a Prince . But know you , there is not in any part of our Commentarie vpon the Bible any one sparke , whereat any Guido may light his match , to giue fire to his powder .

The last instance for England . The moderate Answerer .

m m Answer in his Epistle to his Maiestie . § Which as . If I had trauelled no further into that doctrine , then to the late printed booke , by your Maiesties Printer of the late intended Conspiracie , I might easily performe a iust defence : for the Protestant Author giueth it out as a generall rule , and vndoubted Maxime to all Professors of worship to take armes , if their Religion be in hazard : and that no priuate man should thinke his life more happie then to fight pro Aris. Which is greater libertie then our Aduersarie can find in Catholike Writers , so of him attached of Treason and Rebellion .

The Reply .

This shoot is but twelue score wide of the marke you ayme at : your bent is to defend them , who professe it lawfull for Catholikes in the maintenance of Religion to murther Kings , and harrow Kingdomes ( in their opinion ) hereticall . This Author teacheth vs to Fight ( his owne words ) pro Aris , pro focis , pro Patre patriae : his Reason , Because the indangering of one of these would at once stirre the whole bodie of a Commonwealth , not any more as diuided members , but as a solid and indiuiduall lumpe . What is then the difference ? he in the whole Treatise , teacheth euery priuate man to arme himselfe by all possible meanes , but first armed with authoritie of the King and State . You teach to fight for Religion ( violating the obedience of God ) against your King and kingdome , to destroy them . The difference may be illustrated by the like : A priuate man , if without authoritie temporall he kill a murtherer , he is a murtherer ; but authorized by the publike lawe , he is now no more priuate , but an Officer , but the lawles homicide doth best pattern your lawlesse parricide . So that there is no more oddes betweene our and your Authors opinion , then cum Rege , & contra Regem : to fight with , and against the King . You can find no more exception in England , whither will you now ? it is but a step to Scotland , what see you there ?

CHAP. IIII.

The Obiection of the moderate Answerer against the Church of Scotland .

a a Answer cap. 3. repeating it cap. 7. & cap. 9. KNox , and Buchanan defended the power of people ouer their King .

The Reply .

You might haue added , that there was in Scotland an * * Anno. 1584. Act of Parliament , to call in that Chronicle of Buchanan , censuring all such contempts and innouations : but it stood your modestie in hand to conceale this , lest we might reply vpon your moderation thus : That is not to be called the doctrine of Scotland , which the general currant of that Church and State in publike Parliament doth condemne : such is this seditious doctrine of resisting and deposing Kings , a learning substantially popish , your * * Proued by the Popes Buls supr. Popes being Authors thereof , your other Priests of Rome suggestors publikely authorized herein , and your traiterous Actors canonized for Saints in the conceit of all Romish . And now you may bid great Britaine adiew : you may make a short cut into France .

CHAP V.

The Obiections of the moderate Answerer against the Protestants in France , both in their Positions and Practises .

a a Answer cap. 9. § Let vs . LEt vs come into France .

The Reply .

But vpon condition , that you will not returne . Yet what of Fraunce ?

The moderate Answerer .

b b Answer Ibid. Caluin and Beza , and the rest of that holy Synode say , that the Kings and Queenes , their children , posteritie , and all Magistrates must be put to death : and so euery Protestant must be more then a Pope .

The Reply .

Nay , God forbid ; that any should be so great a man in Rebellion , as your Popes , who haue bene the heads of the greatest tumults in Christendome . Caluin and Beza , whom you traduce ( if your moderation will suffer that which iustice doth exact ) must answer for themselues .

Caluins iudgement in this case .

In his booke of Institutions , which he framed for instruction of all the Church of Christ , touching the case now controuerted , he beginneth to consult with God , saying : c c Caluinus Instit. li. 4. c. 20. § 22. Verbum Dei docet , Principum omnium , qui quoquo modo rerum potiuntur , etiamsi nihil minus praestent , quàm quod ex Officio erat Principum , imperio es●e parendum . Paulò post Vt homines intelligant , in homine deterrimo honoreque omni indignissimo , penes quem modo sit publica potestas , praeclaram illam & diuinam potestatem residere , quam Dominus lustitiae & Iudicij sui Ministris verbo suo detulit : I●roi●dè a subditis eadem reuerentiâ ac dignatione habendum , quantum ad publicam obedientiam attinet , quâ Regem optimum , si daretur , habitur● estent . Nabuchadnezar strenuus erat aliorum inuasor , ac populator , & Dominus ta●…en per Prophetam d●cit , se illi terram illam dedisle . Ezech. 29. & Dan. 2. Vt ●os nequissimum Tyrannum eo loco habeamus , quo Deus eum posuit . C●… Samuel describit Regem iniquum . 1 , Samuel . 8. 11. Hoc ius ( inquit ) erit Regis , filios vest●os tollet , &c. Cert●… non quòd iure ita facturierant Reges , quos lex Domini ad omnem continentiam instituebat ▪ sed ●us ●n populum vocatur , cui patere ipsi necesle erat , nec obsistere liceret & ●er . 27. S8ruiet Regi Babel . Videmus quant●●…e ●ti● tetrum illum ferocèmque Tyrannum Deus coli voluerit , non al●â ratione ni●i quia regnum ▪ ●…bat , quod exemplum vobis assid●è ob animos obuetletur : ita nunquam in anim●…●dit●… cogitationes venient ; Tracta●dum esse pro me●itis Regem ; nec aequum esse vt subd●…s ●…s praestemus , qui v●cissim Regem nobis se non praestat . & de hoc extant general●a Sc●ip●… testimonia . Hunc reu●rentiae atque ade● p●●tatis affectum ▪ debemus ad extremum ●llis , qu lescunquetandem sint ; Quod saepiùs ideò repeto , vt satis hab●amus , quòd eam Domini voluntate personam s●stine●t , cui inuiolabilem maiestatem impressit ip●e & insculpsit . The word of God teacheth vs to obey all Princes , who are established in their thrones , be it by what meanes soeuer : yea and though they shall do nothing lesse then the Offices of Kings , yet must they be obayed ; though the King be neuer so wicked , and indeed vnworthie of the name of a King , yet must subiects acknowledge the image of diuine power in his publike authoritie , and therefore must in all temporall duties reuerence and obey him , as well as if he were the godliest King in the world . To contract his other sentences into a briefe . We are instructed ( saith Caluin ) by many documents of holy writ neuer to suffer these seditio●s conceits to possesse our minds ; as to thinke an euill King must be so dealt withall , as he deserueth : but we are directly charged to obey the King , though he be a sauage Tyrant , and neuer so wicked : which I therefore often vrge , that in such a case it may content vs to know , that euen such Ki●gs beare in their office the image of God , in whom God hath stamped andingrauen an inuiolable Maiestie , not to be contemned . Thus farre Master Caluin : neither doth he euer restrain the outward power of any King , except in those States where there is customably ordained for that purpose , the Magistracie of those who are called Ephori , and Tribuni plebis . But when ? when they shall commaund any thing against the lawe of God ? then Caluin embraceth the doctrine of Saint Peter , Act. 15. 29. [ We rather obey God then man : ] but how ? not to obey man ? as actiuely to resist , that is , to rebell against him ? God forbid ! but onely passiuely , which is not to do that which shall be wickedly commaunded ; Perpeti potiùs , quàm à veritate discedere , au● à pietate deslectere . Rather suffer ( saith he ) then to betray the truth of God , or to accord to iniquitie . But reade and examine all the lines which euer Caluin penned , and you shall not find one syllable that can preiudice his loyaltie . Wherof more hereafter .

The moderate Answerer .

d d Answer quo iam supra . Beza also and the rest of that holy Synod , defend the same .

The Reply .

Belike then this rebellious doctrine will be proued a Synodicall Decree among Protestants : but if you should vow faithfully not to eate , till you proue this , I could easily prognosticate what death you should die . But Beza , as he succeeded Caluine a Doctor , so in doctrine likewise . Heare Bezas owne confession , and it will proue him innocent , you a slaunderer , and your Popes the capitall delinquents in this kind .

1 His innocencie . e e Quod attinet ad p●iuatos homines , à qui● us etiam aut ●ihil aut no●●…ltū absunt ●…o●es m●gistratus , t●ne●e ●llos opott●t ●l●●imū inter le de●●r●e , in●…am ●…erre , & ●…m pati : Iniuriam enim pati nostrum est , sic praecipiente Domino & exemplo suo nobis praeeu●te , cùm nobis illum vi arcere non licet à nostrae vocationis praescipto , ext●a quam ne●as ●…vel pedem ponere . Nequè aliud remedium proponitur priuatis hominibus ●…yranno sub●…ter vitae emendationem , preces , & lach●ymas , quas Dominus pro tempore non a●p●…r ▪ Impiē autem facere nec volentes nec ius●os fas erit ; quoties enim ho●inum imperijs patére n●n possumus , qui● Regis Regum authoritatem violemus , Deo parendum est potius quam hominibus ; ita tamen vt memine●im●s , aliud esse non parére , quam resistere & ad arma ●e co●patare , quae à Domino non acceperis . B●za confess . fid. cap. 5. § 45. Priuate men , among whom I account inferior Magistrates ( in respect of their King ) haue no other remedie against Tyrants , to whom they be subiect , then amendment of their liues , prayers , and teares , which God in his good time will not despise . They alwaies prouided not to do , but onely to suffer euil , as Christ by his owne example hath taught vs . And if it shall so happen that we cannot obey the commaund of the King , but that we must offend God , the King of Kings : then must we rather obey God then man . But how ? so , as likewise to remember , that it is one thing not to obey , another thing to resist and betake our selues to armes . This kind of violent disobedience we may not vse . Can any moderate spirit call this doctrine rebellious ?

Secondly : Your slaunder . f f Quid de Subiectorum erga suos magistratus officio sentiamus , ex his cognosci potest certiùs ac veriùs , quàm ex corum calumnijs , quibus nullus est pudor nos inuoluere cum vertiginosis Anabaptistis , qui magistatuum authoritatem tollunt , iurisiurandi religionem euertunt , indicia & B●lla aduersus se illata illicita esse contendunt , à quibus sceleribus quantum absumus , nemo potest ignor are nisi qui lucem recusat intueri . Beza quo supra . What our opinion is concerning subiection vnto Magistrates , ( saith Beza ) a man may better be instructed by our writings , then by the slaunders of such as number vs among the companie of intoxicate Anabaptists , who renounce the authoritie of Magistrates : which doctrine how much we abhorre , none can be ignorant , which doth not obstinately refuse to see the light . Of which kind you must needes be , seeing you had rather beleeue any libels against Beza , then see his owne writings .

Thirdly , your Popes capitall Offendors , g g Auget etiam illud aduersariorum nostrorum impudentia , quòd cùm ipsi palam contra Dei Verbum Reges & Regna sibi subiecerint , nec vllum sit hominum genus aduersus magistratus magis rebelle , audent tamen illi nobis illud ipsum scelus impingere , quod sibi licere non obscutè iactant . Beza ibidem . The impudencie of our Accusers ( saith Beza ) herein is most notorious ; that they , who contrarie to the word of God haue openly subiected Kings and Kingdomes to their authoritie , being themselues the most rebellious Sect vnder heauen in contemning Magistrates ; dare notwithstanding obiect the guilt of that crime vnto vs , which they thinke to be a vertue in themselues , and wherein they glorie and vaunt . Which is most true , as we haue proued out of your Bellarmine and others , glorying in the acts of such Popes , who haue deposed Emperors .

CHAP. VI.

The Practises of Caluin and other Protestants of France obiected by this Accuser in diuers particular instances .

The first instance . The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer qu● supra . THese were instruments of all Rebellions and oppressions in the Monarchie of France , wherein they tooke all authoritie from the King and Magistrate , against King Francis , whom they rebelliously persecuted .

The Reply .

For your proofes against Protestants in this your Answer you produce Genebrard , Claudius de Sanct. Petrus Frar . Coclaeus and such like , all professed Aduersaries to the Religion of Protestants . How moderate dealing this may be accounted will appeare , when I shall oppose your owne Historians to condemne you , and acquit the Protestants . Two witnesses shall suffice , who how farre they were from fauouring the Protestants you may iudge by their complexions : for the b b The Historicall collection of the memorable acts in France from Henrie the 2 , till Henrie the 4 Before his Treatise of the reigne of Henrie the 3. he hath inserted . A briefe Discourse ( for so ●e ●●th i●… title it ) of the grace and wonderfull effects that haue insued the Kings conuersion , collected . Wherein are these words folowing : His Maiestie by reuelation of the holy Ghost and for his owne saluation turned to the bosome of the Church , leauing the ●…ors of the new opinion , ab●uring his former impostures ▪ &c. first greedily relateth a Discourse , wherein he calleth our Religion new and a plaine imposture . The c c L'histoire de France , ●…es plus notables occurrances , &c. Au Roy. second is dedicated to Charles the then French King ; and to d d L'histoire de Franc. &c. A la R●in● . the Queene mother : in which Historie he calleth the doctrine of M. Luther , e e La multitude des absurdes Heresies , &c. Lib. 1. fol. 9. A multitude of absurd heresies . Therefore you may not think these men partiall in our behalfe .

Both prouing 1. The pronenesse of Papists to slaunder the Religion of Protestants . 2. That this accusation is a slaunder , which is now obiected .

For the 1. I will alledge of many but one story , published by them both . f f The first Hist. pag. 5●… . A●●o D●… . 1559. and the second Historie lib. 15. A●●o 1559. § Or come . False witnesses were brought against ( Protestants ) them of the Religion , affirming that in a place at Maubert , at a Councellors house , great numbers of them had eaten a pigge instead of a pascall Lambe before Easter ; and after , the candles being put out , euery man tooke his woman , and had his pleasure of her . The Cardinall vpon these informations moued the Court , the Queene mother tooke occasion hereby to reuile some of her Gentlewomen , who were of the Religion : but they desired and obtained means that the principall witnesses might be examined : it was done , two young boyes come foorth , and affirme that then and many other times they had had the vse of your Councellors daughters : but in the end the witnesses began to stagger , and couertly to denie it . The Councellor ( sought after for his Religion ) vnderstanding this shameful slander , went with his wife and his two daughters , yeelding himselfe prisoner for his Religion , desiring that the cause of his daughters might be examined . They were diligently searched by Physitions and women , and found to be virgins : and the young men did thus iustifie themselues that they did it in deuotion , being perswaded that such an accusation against such Heretikes was good , whether it were true or false . But the virgins were cleared , and yet their father remained in prison , and the witnesses were not punished .

The second . Concerning the present Accusation thus it standeth . g g The first Hist. pag. 86. The Guizes ( who were no naturall Frenchmen ) not able to accuse the Prince of Condie of Treason , ( Daniels case ) called him in question to be condemned of heresie for his Religion . But what was the right cause of tumults ? h h Pag. 62. & 67. There was deliuered an exact declaration to proue , that those of the Guizes had decreed to put all the Princes of the bloud Royall to death , as soone as they had cut off them of the Religion ; and they were euidently proued to be guiltie of his treason . i i Pag. 83. And the King could not otherwise iudge , but that great wrong was offered to his bloud . Then not the Protestants , but the Spanish faction of the Guizes were guiltie of those broyles in the daies of King Francis . Notwithstanding k k Pag. 85. 86. 87. Though the Prince of Condie did acquit himselfe of Treason , and boldly stood to his Religion , yet not long after they pronounced iudgment of death vpon him : But King Francis fell extremely sicke , and in his sicknesse made a solemne vow to all Saints in Pieardie , that if it pleased them to help him , he wold wholy purge his Realme of ( meaning Protestants ) all those heretikes . And thus all Protestants were freed then from this designe : the Saints of Piccardie belike were of your mind , Protestants are no heretikes .

The second Instance , of The moderate Answerer .

g g Answer cap. 9. § After the. They raised such rebellions and civill warres against Charles the ninth , wherein the King of Nauarre , and Duke Nyuers with others were slaine .

The Reply .

I reade the storie in our foresaid h h The first Historie . Pag. 114. & deinc●p● . Historicall collection of memorable accidents in France , and others , and I can find onely this thing memorable concerning this point , that The King was then in his minoritie , and the Queene Mother was regent , who yeelded too much vnto the Guizes faction , who persecuted the Prince of Condie , and sought the destruction of all the bloud royall : at length Duke Nyuers with King Nauarre in the warre against his brother , at the siege of Roane are wounded and slaine . See the cause of the Prince of Condie his defence . i i Pag. 111. In lan. 1● . anno 1562 was made an Edict , whereby permission was granted to them of the Religion to assemble without the townes , and order was taken , that either part , Protestants and Catholikes , might liue in quietnesse and peace with each other : But a while after the Constable did deface all places of their assemblies , and those of the Religion were cruelly handled . This was the first beginning of the horrible troubles in France . But were Protestants after this rebellious ? k k Pag. 152. In those of Languidoch the King did pardon whatsoeuer they had done in their iust defence , holding them for good subiects . What was then the cause why the Prince of Condie and the Admirall did beare armes ? l l Pag. 184. They vnderstanding that 6000. Switzers were now entred into France , with intent to execute violence vpon them of the Religion , they betake themselues vnto the King , from whom they receiued no fauourable answer , therefore they did flie for defence against those Switzers , not suffering their throates to be cut by theeues . m m Pag. 194. After this was there concluded a peace , the Prince of Condie doth lay downe his armes , his aduersaries were contented onely to promise to do the like , alledging that there is no faith to be held with heretikes . Shewing themselues herein false , and not onely faithlesse ; for you know Protestants are no heretikes .

The third Instance of The moderate Answerer .

n n Answer ibidem The Duke of Guize was trecherously murdered by Pultrotus , for that fact suborned by Beza and the Protestant Admirall .

The Reply .

The storie is , that o o The first h●storia pag. 118. The Duke of Guize had appointed a day to take Orleance , wherein he would not spare any man , woman , or child whomsoeuer ; and after he had kept his Shrouetide there , he would spoile and destroy the towne : Pultrot riding vpon a Spanish Ginnet shot the Duke with a Pistoll and slue him ; after was taken and tormented with hot tongs to make him confesse , and then torne in peeces by force of horses . Let vs leaue him ( if you will ) iustly executed by them ; come to the other vniustly slaundered by you : for p p Ibidem . It was euidently knowne at his execution , that Pultrot did it of his owne motion and particular intent , thereby to free France and especially Orleance from the violence of the Duke of Guize . To this first Historian agreeth the second . q q L histoire de France , depuis l'an 1550 iusques à ce temps Tom. 2. Lib. 26. anno 1581. The King after he had examined the Admiral , to ●ether with his Councel , did acquit him of suspision , and imposed perpetuall silence to all , not to speake of it . You therefore ( though no subiect ) might haue bene taught silence , especially seeing that r r Ibid. lib. 19 anno 1563. § Nous pag. 360. the confederates of the Religion , among whom was Theodore Beza , did condemne this fact of Pulirot as rash , and directly contrary to the commaundement of God , who will ( herein condemning all such desperate examples , inspired onely with a diuellish motion ) that euery crime and offence shal receiue punishment according to the institution politike and forme of gouernment established in euery state , at the discretion of the Magistrate .

The moderate Answerer .

s s Answer quo supra . Such were the miserable murders and calamities which they brought to that distressed kingdome , that in the two first ci●… wars and rebellions aboue an hundred thousand were slaine , as Gaspar Collen witnesseth .

The Reply .

It is not vnlikely but an hundred thousand were slaine ; but it is as probable that a thousand for an hundred of them were Protestants persecuted for their Religion , who alwayes lay open to Popish trecheries , as is plaine by the barbarous massacre , wherein ( as testifieth your owne * * L'histoire quo supra . lib. 29. fol. 70. author ) there was slaine twentie thousand Protestants in lesse then one moneth by the furie of the Catholikes . What could there be in the Protestant ? was it rebellion ? No , but only constancy in Religion , then persecuted by the malignant . But what kind of motion might this be in those Catholikes which egged them on to this butcherie ? whether was it zeale or fury ; Christian iustice , or Antichristian malice ? t t Quo supra fol. 65. The Catholikes not content ( saith your Author ) to liue alwayes assured , hauing the autoritie of the State for them , aspired with a burning desire to bring to passe that which they had a long time plotted against their enemies . But let vs leaue this G●lgotha ( for so you made France by your monstrous massacres ) as then a place of dead mens sculs . Whither shal your next voyage be ?

CHAP. VII .

The Instances of the moderate Answerer in Heluetia .

The first . The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 9. § Let vs come . LEt vs come to Heluetia , and especially Geneua , the Mother-Church of the Reformed ; M. Caluine the supreme head of thereformed there , hath told vs before , that Princes not agreeing with vs in Religion , are to be spitted vpon rather then obeyed : they are not to be numbred among men , they are to be bereaued of all authoritie .

The Reply .

What ? absolutely depriued of all authoritie ? Proue this , and I will as absolutely denie all his doctrinall authoritie : whom , by reading of your most learned Iesuites , as Maldonate , Ribera , Pererius , Salmeron , Tollet , and such others , and conferring their expositions with Caluins , I dare boldly affirme him , to be of that excellent iudgment , that these your greatest Rabbies ( for their best expositions ) light their candles at Caluins to arch . But to the point . Caluin doth consider in the person of a wicked King two situations , one as he sitteth vnder God , the other when he exalteth himselfe to sit aboue God : when he commandeth as a substitute and subordinate , God hath commanded vs to obey man : but when he commandeth contra Deum , against God ( saith * Caluine ) he vsurpeth Gods throne , and herein he looseth his royaltie , which is to be obeyed . A matter so reasonable , that in the behalf of God , the Apostles in like case are content to appeale herein to the iudgement of his aduersary , man , [ * * Act. 4. 19. Whether it be better to obey God or man , iudge you . ] To explane this by example : If a Iustice of peace shall command me to kill a fellon , I denie his authoritie , this is against the commission of his and my King , and in this case of too peremptorie a commaund I acknowledge him no Iustice , yet not absolutely no Iustice : for if presently he shall commaund me to apprehend the same fellon , I willingly obey him . He therefore in his former commaund was as it were disjusticed onely by that act of disobedience ; wherein obedience to him had bene disobedience against the Crowne : but yet he remained Iustice in office , and therefore comanding iustly , I dutifully obeyed him . Thus is it in Caluins iudgement , in the comparison betweene man and God : If the King exalt himselfe to Gods throne , then pull him downe , that is , do not obey , yet so , that we dispossesse him not of his owne throne , which is Gods footstoole . Therefore , said Caluine , * * 〈◊〉 supra c. 5. In the most wicked King , that is enemie to God ; there is by Gods ordinance an impression of maiestie , which is inuiolable , and his authoritie is not to be contemned . This is cleare in Daniels case , wherein Caluin doth insist : for Daniel commaunded by the King to worship the Idoll , refused ; & cast among Lions , was miraculously preserued , & in the end deliuered : then he thus answered the King , * * Dan. 6. ●2 . Against thee , O King , haue I done none iniquitie . Wherein Caluine obserueth , that b b Respondet Daniel , se nullam prauitatem co●…sisle ad . ●e 〈◊〉 Regem : vt hoc pateat tenenda 〈◊〉 ●entet●a Petn ▪ De●m ●…ete , ●eg●m honorate , 〈◊〉 haec ●●ter ●e co●ex●… possit vnum ab ●…o ●…lli : pr●…dat oportet timor Dei ▪ vt Reges obtineant suam autoritatem , sic ●●men vt Deus emineat . ●ure ●rgo Daniel se defendit , quod ●…llam prauitatem commisit aduersus Reg●… q●a , sc●●icet , co-actus D●…perio Reg●s mandatum neglexerat Abd●●ant enam se potestate terreni Principes , dum insurgunt contra Deum , imò indigni sunt qui 〈◊〉 in hominum numero , po●…s ergo con●p●ere opo●tet in ip●o●um capita , quam 〈◊〉 parere , ●bi i● proteruiunt , vt vel●nt etiam Deum iurespohate , & quasi occupare sohum eius , acsi postent eum è coelo detra●ere . Caluin . com . in Dan. 6. 22. No King ought to thinke it iniquitie to be disobeyed in that which he shall commaund contrary to God , because the order of obedience to Kings beginneth at God : as S. Peter saith , [ Feare God , honour the King . ] This is the summe . And is there any King which feareth God , that can call this exposition rebellious ? For to * giue to God that which is Gods , doth not depriue a King ( though most wicked ) of his due : for it followeth . * * Matth. 22 21. Giue vnto Caesar that which belongeth vnto Caesar : but you doe not onely take away duties belonging vnto Caesar , but also take out of the way Caesar himselfe , if opposite vnto your super●●itious doctrines . Thus haue I satisfied according to the truth of Caluins opinion . Now for his phrase .

The Phrase of Caluin iniuriously vrged . The moderate Answerer .

c c The answer , quo 〈◊〉 . But Caluine saith , that such a King is to be berea●ed of all authoritie , and not to be numbred among men , but rather to be spit vpon then obeyed .

The Reply .

You haue weighed the words of Caluine in false ballances I would I could say ignorance onely , and not also malicious deceit : but first of ignorance . For when we consider man created with a reasonable soule , and after rebelling against his maker ; shall we not thinke him vnworthy of the name of reasonable man ? What is this els then that which we reade , * * Psa. 49. v● . 20. Man in honour hath no vnderstanding , and is become like the beast that perisheth ? Shewing ( as ancient Fathers do comment ) that man by disobedience to God , is degenerate from his kind : and therefore as God said for the presumption of his transgression by an Ironie , * * Gen. 3. 22. Behold man is become as one of vs , &c. So the beasts may say in mans confusion , thus : Behold man is become like one of vs , because he is degenerated from the first sanctified reason : for which cause our Sauior called Herod a * * Luk. 13. 32. Foxe , and his owne Disciple * * M●rk . 8. 33. Satan . And yet in regard of their offices , neither did the Apostle cease to be an Apostle , nor Herod to be acknowledged King . Nay Nabuchadnezzar by a sauage distraction metamorphosed into the disposition of a brute beast , to liue in deserts with beasts ; yet lost not , in the interim , the right of his empire . The next word of [ rather spitting in their faces , ] spoken comparatiuely , doth not rebelliously teach irreuerence to the maiestie of a King , but only emphatically , inforce a more zealous obedience vnto God : as when I say , I had rather burne my hand , then write any thing against my conscience ; I do not danger my hand , but I auouch the sinceritie of my conscience . Notwithstanding if the word had bin vsed simply , yet could it not haue bin vnderstood literally , but figuratiuely . As when it is written of God , that * * Apoc. 3. 16. God will spue the luke-warme professor out of his mouth : signifying he doth loath such . Therefore you must not deale with mens speeches , as Salomon teacheth men not to deale with their owne noses : * * Prou. 30. 33. He that wringeth his nose too much , doth fetch bloud .

2. D●ceit . Caluin saith ( say you ) that such a King is to be bereaued of all authoritie . It is noted of Satans temptation , that in alledging a text of Scripture [ * * Math. 4. 6. He hath giuen his Argels charge o●er thee , to keep thee in all thy wayes , &c. ] the subtile Tempter left out the words of greatest importance , In al thy wayes . I wil not charge you with imitation of that spirit of lying by substracting ; for you do but adde onely one word [ All : ] bereaued of [ All ] authoritie . But Caluine [ Abdicant se potestate ] bereaued of authoritie , meaning only in that case of contradiction against God . But this kinde of dealing is but ordinary in your moderation . Thus is Caluin i●stified concerning his doctrine , & in him also Beza : because Beza ( say you ) his successor in place , succeeded him also both in opinion and practise . We haue heard of their opinion . Haue you any thing to except against their practise ?

The practise of Caluin and Beza , obiected by The moderate Answerer .

d d Answer ●…os● 〈◊〉 . Both Beza and Ca●…n armed subiects against their Prince at Geneua , and ( as Calu●… himselfe , Doctor Su●cli●●e , and the Arch-bishop of Canterburie be witnesses ) deposed their Soueraigne from his temporall right , and euer since continue in that state of Rebellion .

The Reply .

I am sure if Caluin hath written to that effect , your modesty would not haue concealed it : but as the Comedian Poet maketh his parasite to speake , Aequè quidquam nunc quidem ▪ ●…uen any thing so I m●y seeme to say something . The booke of Doctor Th● b●oke which you cite in your m●r●●nt , Be●al . de●… Magis 〈◊〉 no ●or● to ●e call●d B●za●s , th● th● Vindic●ae contra ty●annos ▪ 〈…〉 herof your 〈◊〉 ●uthor writ t● thus : Vindicia●um contra Tyrannos Autorem expiscari non possumu● . B●…claius ●ib. 3 contra Mo●… . 〈…〉 . 1. Sutcli●fes I could not find , and I needed not seeke it , for I haue con●erred herein with the master , who answered me , that the booke De Iure Magistratus , he neuer thought to be Beza his worke : and concerning the State of Geneua , the Bishop thereof , whom you call Prince and Gouernor of Geneua , was neuer there Prince , but the state of the towne was a free state of it selfe . To make a question , whether I should rather beleeue him or you , is to doubt whether he that hath bin at Geneua , or he that neuer saw it can better report the state thereof . The words of Caluine his confession , which should haue be●e produced , are these : c c lus gl●dij ▪ & alias ciuilis iurisdictionis partes , quas sua immu●…tatis specie personati ●lli ●piscopi & Sacerdotes fraudulentèr Magist●a●… e●eptas sibi vendic●●unt , annon Magis●●atui restit●… ? C●l●in in lib. Tract . Theolog ▪ R●sp . ●d Sad●let . pag. 142. We haue restored to the Magistrate of Geneua all the ciuill power which those false Bishops had , vnder colour of liber●ie and priuiledge , taken from the Magistrate , and by collusion did chalenge to themselues . Adde that which may be obserued , the continuall contentions partly betweene the Bishops and the Dukes of Sauoy about that soueraignetie , partly also of the citizens against them both . An argument of no constant consent . The conclusion will be , that you may rather proue those Bishops to haue bene iniuriously ambitious , then the citie rebellious .

CHAP. VIII .

Instance in Burgundie .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 9 § In Burgundie IN Burgundie a like assembly and conuenti●le was kept at Cabillion , therein was decreed that three wor●… to be taken out of the world ; first the Church of Rome , secondly ●…le ●…es of auncient houses , and thirdly all ciuill policie and gouernment .

The Reply .

Were euer any Protestants so fantasticall ? who were the authors of that decree ? nay who was your author witnessing that there was any such decree ? You expresse neither . We may not maruell if through the wearinesse of your so long trauell into many countries you fell at length a sleepe , and dreamed this idle dreame of three wormes ; so I had rather thinke , then that you dreamed it waking , for then should you find a fourth worme worse then all those three , euen the * * Mark . 9. 44. 46. 48. worme of conscience which gnaweth euery lying soule . The like may I answer for your imagined rebellions b b A●sw●r quo ●u●… I● Denmark . In Denmark , but that you haue for your witnesse your owne Peter Frarer , you might say Frater ; for who so shall reade his idle pamphlet , shall easily perceiue that his inke wherewith he writ was of that co●…ound which the Iewes offered our Sauiour , vineger and gall . There is an established Church of Protestants in Sueueland ; doe you see no beakons of ●i●e there which might portend rebellions ?

CHAP. IX .

Sweueland obiected by

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer quo supra . § ●o● Sueueland . FOr Sueueland the Protestants themselues gi●e also testimonie , that the Catholike King thereof was enforced by his rebellious Gospellers to make himselfe a subiect vnto their designements , and condescend , that no Catholike should beare office in that Kingdome : as is witnessed by Cytraeus Chron. Anno 1593. 1594.

The Reply .

The Storie is long ▪ but the summe is short : that the whole State of Sueueland required that according to the former Parliament of their Kingdome , the King should sweare to defend them in their former liberties , and especially the fruition of the Religion then professed . Doth your Protestant witnesse call them Rebellious Gospellers ? It was the demaund of an whole State for defence of their countrie priuiledge ; can any Papist call this rebellious ? You will be as loth to confesse this , as you are prone to forge the other . Let vs trauell homeward againe , and end there where you began .

CHAP. X.

In the Imperiall State of Germanie : particularly obiecting Luther . Muntzer .

The moderate Answerer his first instance against Luther .

a a Answer cap. 9. § First Martin . MArtin Luther the prime Protestant of that time said , he cared not for Kings , & so careles he is in this case , that he telleth , that it is the nature of the Gospel to raise wars & seditions : that among Christians there is no Magistrate , no Superior , that it is a thing to be obtained by prayers , that countrimen obey not their Princes ; No lawe , or syllable of lawe can be imposed vpon Christians neither by men or Angels ; there is no hope of remedie , except all humane lawes be taken away .

The Reply .

Here is your common Linsi-woolsie , mixture of truth and falshood : but as you would haue vs to confesse a truth , so be you willing to acknowledge your Error .

The truth . Luther professed that he did not care for Kings : true , but in that comparatiue sence , which he had learned of our Lord Christ . * * Luk. 21. 12. You shall be called before Kings and Rulers for my name sake : but feare not man , who can kill the bodie , but feare God , who is able , after the bodie is dead , to take the soule , and cast it into hell fire , I say , feare him . Secondly , Luther telleth that it is the nature of the Gospell to raise warres and seditions . And doth not the Gospell it selfe tell vs the same likewise ? * * Matth. 10. 34. Behold , I came not to send peace into the world , for I will set the father against the sonne , and the daughter against the mother , &c. You cannot be ignorant of the difference of a cause and an occasion , a thing considered properly in his owne nature , and vnproperly by externall accident . b b An nos frangimusianuam , cum effractoribas suribus , quia , si non can clauderemus , illi non frangerant ? August . lib. de m●ndacio . cap. 9 Do I ( shutting the doore ) breake it , because the theefe would not haue broken it except it had bene shut , saith Saint Augustine . So Luther : Because the Gospell is preached , the professors thereof are persecuted with the sword ; is therefore the innocent professor cause of the persecution ? no , but onely an occasion . Christ , who is in his owne nature * Petra salutis , a rocke of saluation to the elect ; to the reprobate is called a * * 1. Pet. 2. 8. Stone of offence : because the godly are by faith edified to life , and the wicked by the malice of their hart do spurne against Christ , stumble , and perish through vnbeleefe . The Gospell likewise hath a double sauor , vitall and mortall ; being * * 2. Cor. 2. 16. The sauor of life vnto life to the sanctified by Gods spirit , and the sauor of death vnto death to the irrepentant and vnregenerate . So then the Gospell is no otherwise seditious then the sweet flower is venimous ; from this the Spider sucketh sweetnesse , but through the fierie malignitie changeth it to peyson : so that obstinate hearing of grace , peace , and saluation , by his naturall malice resisteth grace with contempt , peace with warre , and eternall saluation , by working bodily destruction .

The falshood : to affirme , that Luther did abandon all Magistracie , and abhorre all humane lawes , is first false : for then I should maruell in what commonwealth the doctrine of Luther could●… long breath . Secondly false , for Luther defendeth Magistracie in his publike bookes . Thirdly , thrice false , for Luther also condemneth the Romish for their contempt of Magistrates .

His doctrine . c c Obijci solet vide● Impenum tyrannidem , cum sit Caesar alijs homimbus si●… , qu●d imperium in h●…nes vlurpet . Vetum nos , q●● verbum Dei habemus . debemus mandatum Dei op ponere , quia nostrum est diuinae ordin●uom patere . Luther . tom. 1. in Gen. cap. 9. Prohibitum est gladium accipere , dicente Christo , Qui accipit glad●um gladio peribit , quia iniussus & propria suâ libidine a●●ipit , sed mandatum est gerere gladium , & est ministerium Dei Though some thinke gouernement of man ouer man to be a tyrannous vsurpation , because all men are naturally of like condition : yet we that haue the word of God must oppose to this delusion the commandement and ordinance of God , who hath put a sword into the hand of the Magistrate , whome therefore the Apostle calleth * * Rom 13. Minister Dei est . ●…r . Tom. 3 A●…ot . in D●… . cap. 〈◊〉 . fol. 40. Anarchia Satanae consilium est . Ibid fol. 552. Gods Minister .

His taxation of the Romish . d d I am vehementet piget p●detque imò miseret me , quoties cogito quae & quanta ludibtia sibi ab Imperatenb is , Principibus , vniuer●… Natione German●ae Papa fec●rit : Deus bone , quanta ●bi●ine & fiducia in eislusit , non secùs eos ducens , & tractans , quam irrationabilia bruta , q●ibus tantum ad●…des , dolos rapinas , & quicqaid Satan suggerete potuit Papisticatum artium abuteretur ●ut●er . Tom. 2. Resp. ad A●… Catherinum . fol. 15● . Sanctus Petrus Pap●tum gra ▪ hice depinxit . 2. Pet. 2. [ Dominationes spernant ] Quis hoc nisi Pa●… ecta fa●… Quid , Don in●t●●nes . Apostolus nisi Principes & magistratus vocat ? Nonne hoc est Do●…●●S spernete , serp●os propria authoritate 〈◊〉 a tubutis subiectiombus , & v●…etsis 〈◊〉 Reipublicae contra doctrinam Petri & Paul●… tantum abest vt dominationem agno●●at P●pa , vt luminos Principes aeque ad oscula pedum admittat ; dein Monachum & Sacrisiculum stipite rudiorem , & ●enone sceleratiorem super v●…os mundi Proceres ●…t propter characterem illum indelebilem ; i● 〈◊〉 coguntur Dominationes contemptae honotare idol● , a quibus hono●ari debuerant , igna●…um hoc Papalium hominum genus vix poreis alendis idoneum Luth quo 〈◊〉 . fol. 152. I grieue , and blush , and grone , roses how scornefully our Emperors and Princes of Germanie are abused : whom the Pope leadeth and handleth like brute beasts , both for spotle and slaughter at his pleasure . This Poperie is liuely described by Saint Peter , saying , that in the latter times [ Some should despise Rulers : ] by Rulers , signifying secular Princes . Now the Popish Clergie by their owne authoritie haue exempted themselues from performance of tributes to Princes . And the Pope is so farre from acknowledging the Soueraigntie of Princes ouer him , that he will scarce admit them ( sauing your presence ) to kisse his sh●oe . How like you this doctrine of Luther ? If well , then must you free him from rebellious conceit , for he defendeth subiection to Princes ; if ill , then you condemne your self , for he renounceth Popish Hierarchie , as a rebellious tyrannie .

The moderate Answerer His second instance against Luther .

e e Answer quo supra . § First , &c. He censured King Henry the eight of England , the Princes of the Imperiall Orders , the Princes of Germanie to be vnworthie either of obedience from Subiects , or life in themselues ; and giuing the same doome of his naturall Soueraigne George of Saxonie , nameth him the Calamitie of his countrie , and Tyrant : so he scorned the Emperor and wrote directly against his Edicts . He taught , that Protestants hands must be imbrued with bloud , teaching that he had warrant from God to battell against Princes .

The Reply .

His literall censure of words will be partly confessed , but the other of swords which draweth bloud , neuer can any proue . But to him that looketh through red spectacles , whatsoeuer he be holdeth seemeth red . No maruell therefore though your fantasie preoccupated with the reflection of your last bloudie stratageme , cannot see your aduersarie but with suspition of bloud . It may be you wil alledge Wicelius : as though your owne Romish might suffice in this case , or professed malice could euer speake a truth . A man whome Luther thought so vnworthie the naming , that f f Miror quo consilio velis , Erasme , Wicelio respondere , cùm per hunc librum satis sit responsum . Summa doctrinae eius haec est , Lutheri doctrina est haeresis , quia a Papa & Caesare damnata est ; sua verò est Orthodoxa , quia Episcopi , Cardinales , Principes & Reges mittunt & donant ei aurea pocula . Si aliud est in suis libris , moriar . Agnosco Dei opus & eius mirabilia video , sidem esse donum suum , quia exci●auit Christam a mortuis . Luther . Tom. 2. Epist. ad Eras . fol. 487. He doth maruell that any will answer the booke of Wicell , which doth sufficiently answer it selfe .

The former censure of sharpe speech let vs see how Luther can excuse . He writing to the Duke of Saxonie , doth thus reconcile himselfe : g g illust●●ssime Princeps Domine clemen●… 〈◊〉 constat , qu●d 〈…〉 me●… tribuit Deo , 〈…〉 principio 〈◊〉 & asper castigat homines , vt p●st leniter eos , am●nter & patern● comple●… . Reg. 2. Dominus n●…at & vinisicat , &c. ●●go itaque nec instituto plan● dissimuli , nec om●●ò diuerlâ ratione cùm plures altos , tum vestram celsitud nem tractaui alicubi asperius , & immituis calamo perstrinxi , sed à Deo precatus sum , vt aliquando me reconciliaret , & restitueret in gratiam celsitudinis vestrae : ac interim Conciones consolationis plenissimas edidi , in quibus non opinione , non oculis , sed , vt ita dicam , manibus deprehendi potest , me nullá maleuolentiá aduersus quenquam labora●e : vt intelligat Celsitudo vestra , obiurgationem acerbissimam animi beneuoli & candidi pectoris notam fuisse , quàm omnium qui nunc gratulatiombus & blanditijs inflant in aures Celsitudinis vestrae , laudes & fucata dicta , &c. Luther ▪ Tom. 2. Epist. ad D. Georg Duc. Sax. fol. 487. As God doth seuerely chasten those , whom he purposeth afterward louingly and fatherly to embrace , killing that he may reuiue : I likewise ( most excelent and gracious Soueraigne ) had no other intent in my bitter speech , wherein I might happily offend your Highnesse or any other . Wherfore my humble prayer to God hath bene , that I might recouer your Highnesse fauor , especially seeing that a tart reprehension for good , is a 〈…〉 simple and syncere heart , more precious then all ●…ses of painted flatterie . He writeth almost the like Apologie vnto King Henry the eight , wholly to the same end : granting , that h h Quanquam vereri meritò deberem ( sereni● . Rex illust●●s . Princeps ) 〈◊〉 Matestatem tuam tentare , & qui mihi conscius maximè sum , grauissime offensam esse Maiestatem tuam libello meo ▪ quem non ingenio meo , sed incitantibus his , qui Maiestati tuae parùm fancbant , stultus & praeceps edidi : tamen spem mihi fecit Regia tua clementia , vt cùm n●ortalem sese nouent , immortales inimicitias ser●aturam esse non credam . Tom. 2. Epist ad Regem A●…gh● . c. 493. He had offended his Maiestie with his writings , yet not with intent to offend him , but by instigation of such as did not so greatly fauour his dignitie : and did not therefore doubt but his Princely clemencie , knowing himselfe mortall , would not harbor any immortall displeasure against him . He craued pardon onely for words : O that your case would suffer such an Apologie ! Concerning his allegeance to the Emperor , the Emperor himselfe did acquithim , who neuer charged him with seditious doctrine against his State , but onely religious profession against the sacrilegious superstitions of that time . Which his doctrine he iustified in the presence of the Emperor at Auspurge : whereof Luther writeth thus : i i Audita est nostra causa Augustae coram Caesare & toto mundo , inuentaue est i●reprehensi●…s , & sacram doctrinam referens . Deinde nostra Apologia vulgata est , in qua respondemus infinitis Papisticis mendacij●… cal●…j●… quibus hanc facultatem m●…mè inuidemus , cùm nullis alijs virtunbus po●…ta●t v●…nt esle n●b●les . Luther . 〈◊〉 . fol. 187. Our cause was heard at Auspurge before the Emperor , and before the whole world manifested to be improuable . I haue published our Apologie , answering therein to all Popish lying slaunders , which are infinite : but I may not enuie in those men that facultie , because they haue no other excellent vertue , wherly to ennoble themselues . A certaine argument of your ruinous house , whose best supporter is the priuiledge of lying : by vertue whereof to your other more then a good many euill slaunders , you adde these two next following .

The third instance in Luther by The moderate Answerer .

k k Answer quosupra . § Munster . By Luthers doctrine , that Christians must not fight against the Turke , in short time Belgrade and Rhodes were taken , Hungary was entred , King Lodowike slaine , Buda conquered , &c. Witnesses Munster in Chron. & Pantaleon Chron. 121.

The Reply .

I haue perused the follies you quote , and perceiue that your wisedome in deluding your Reader is excellent : for Munster and Pantaleon both writing of Belgrade , Hungarie , Rhodes , &c. neuer attribute the least scruple or suspition of occasion thereof vnto Luther . Can you be contented to vnderstand the true causes of those mischiefes ? Hearken then vnto your owne Historian . l l L'histoire de France , enrichie &c. lib. 1. Anno. 1521. pag. 13. See also the Historie of Turkie lately set forth by M●ster Know●●s in English , collecte ▪ ●out of the true stories , &c. and concerning Rhodes , ●e saith , Because it was publikely knowne that Leo the Pope had not employed the great summes of money , which he raised from Pardons , against the Turk : there followed the ruins of Hungary , Bohemia was assaulted , Rhodes surprised , and a thousand other euils fell vpon Christendome . This is certaine from the truth of all Storie concerning the Turkes , that Popes and Popish Clergy by their insatiable riot and couetousnes haue bene the bane to all m m If Adrian the Pope had bene as carefull to send aide against the Turke , as he was to de●end the Emperor Charles against the King of France , the Isle of Rhodes had bene safe at this day : Belgrade also was lost by the want of experience of their King , and through the insatiable conciousnes of the Clergie , who in the minoritie of the King got possession of the wealth of the Kingdome , and performed no strengh to resist the Turke . So was Belgrade lost , and a gap made open into Hungarie . And you● Gaicciardine shews that The not rescuing of Rhodes was imputed to the Popes fault . lib. 15. Of the which summe of mony he gaue that w●ich 〈◊〉 gathered out of the most quarters of Germany to his ●…ler Magdalene ; and 50000. crownes to his n●phew Laurence . Hist. quosupra . & Guicciardin . quosupra . Christendome , & alwaies since their temporall Hierarchy by kindling firebrands of seditions among Christians , haue giuen the greatest aduantage to the Turke .

CHAP. XI .

The last instance against Munster and other Anapabtists .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answeribid . MVnster was of the same opinion and practise , and called Rebellion for his Religion the warre of God : affirming that he had receiued some speciall commandement from God to war against Kings , and had promise of victorie from heauen : and hereupon such Rebellions ensued , that of his owne adherents and Traitors were slaine within the space of three moneths one hundred and thirtie thousand .

The Reply .

You being in your selfe Magnus opinator , told vs of the opinion of Luther , and now descended to Munster , say , Munster was of the same opinion , ( viz. with Luther ) and called , &c. But your Peter Frarer , whom you brought to accuse Caluin , is herein readie to iustifie Luther , saying , that b b P●t Frarer . supra . Luther wrote against these rebellious ones , prouing that it belonged to all Christians to persecute them to death . Caluin also wrote a booke , intituled , * Aduersus Libertinos : against fantasticall and Anabaptisticall Libertines : and Beza , as we haue heard , saith , * * Supra . That it is impious wickednesse for any to obiect vnto Protestants the opinion of those rebellious Anabaptists , and spirits of giddinesse . But what thinke you ? were Anabaptists Protestants ? or were Protestants whom you haue named , of this opinion of Anabaptists ? Thus would you perswade your English Reader ; but your Cardinal , & Reader at Rome doth confute you , c c Potestatem politicam esse apud Christianos illicitam , est opinio Anabaptistarum : quam non solùm Catholici omnes execrantur , sed etiam Philippus Melancthon , Caluinus , Lutherus in visitatione Saxonica instiss●… & acertimè oppugnant . Bellar. lib. 3. de Laic●s . cap. 2 , ad●in●m . For this opinion of the hereticall Anabaptists ( saith he ) not only we Catholikes , but Melancthon also , Caluine , and Luther , do abhorre . Recount now your words : Munster was of opinion that it was the commandement of God he shold war : True : and that he sa●… he had a special reuelation from heauen , promising him victory : True : And that thereupon ensued rebellions to the death of many thousands . All these yet true : but now there is wanting this one word [ same : ] Munster ( say you ) was of the same ( meaning Luthers opinion ) . It is written , * * Eccles. 10. 1. One dead ●…e in the ointment of the Apothecarie , doth poison the whole box : And so in one little word [ same ] your great lie hath disabled your whole accusation . For as well may you call the Bandites , namely those grand theeues and out-lawes in Italy of the same incorporation with the citizens of Rome , as name Anabaptists who depend vpon extraordinary and fantasticall reuelations of the same opinion with Protestants , who are wholy directed by the expresse written law and Gospell of Christ .

I perceiue you are now growne weary with long trauell , I could haue wished you would haue visited Polonia , and after that Bohemia in some particular obseruations : for in both those kingdomes there hath bin long time manifold vexations executed vpon Protestants , and yet neuer any of them or others can be named , who deposed Princes , inuaded Crownes , or by any treason did practise the deaths of their Soueraignes . Now therefore let your moderation be admonished to returne home into England : and seeing you cannot find Protestants for your fellowship in your kind of rebellion , now let Protestants ( I pray you ) haue your fellowship in faithful subiection . But lingua , quo vadis ?

CHAP. XII .

The second kind of Recriminations against protestants , is in the second wickednes of Aequiuocation .

YOu returne the guilt of this cursed doctrine vpon Protestants after two fashions ,

Reasoning , Railing .

1. Reasoning , ( if it may be called Reason , which is mixed with most slanderous vntruths ) but you wold be heard speake with good will .

The moderate Answerer .

a a Answer cap. 10 § But to . But to speake vnto this Obiector concerning Protestants proceedings in aquiuocating : Luther vsed it at his pleasure , now appealing to the Pope , and after renouncing his authoritie . Cranmer did often recant his errors by othes , and again often defend them ; counterfetted the hands of fiftie Conuocation men ( Fox himselfe being iudge ) to giue alying credit to his false cause , but excused his false oaths by equiuocation . Protestants of England in the dayes of K. Henrie the eight , King Edward the sixt , and Queene Elizabeth , did equiuocate . Such was the proceeding of P. Martyr and Bucer , two great Professors of Diuinitie in Oxford and Cambridge . Such was the Protestant adherents the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffalke , and now the ordinary vse of Puritanes .

The Reply .

Luther , Cranmer and others , as they were perswaded that the Bishop of Rome was a faithfull Bishop , did sweare obedience vnto him ; but afterwards being better illuminated , did renounce him , as Antichristian . But if all recantation shall be thus censured , then might you teach S. Augustine to retract his retractations . But we wil not denie their infirmities , for it hath pleased God to note the like in his chosen Saints in holy writ , to the amplifying of the glory of his grace in their repentance and his pardon . Yet was not there in these acts any equiuocation , no more then in the acts of Peter , who , at the cock-crow , went out * * Math. 26. 75 . of the high Priests hall and wept bitterly . Thus Cranmerawaked by the call of the spirit of God , executed vengeance vpon that hand which subscribed vnto your idolatrous seruice , b b Fox Act. Mon. Burned it in the fire . Then whatsoeuer his dissimulation was , he thought it worthy of repentance , not as you do think your equiuocation worthy of defence : whereas in the truth of Christianitie , there is the same punishment due to your equiuocating tongues which he executed vpon his dissembling hand . O but Fox is witnesse that he defended himselfe by saying he did equiuocate . I am sure you would not haue bene indebted vnto vs for the words if they had bene extant : I found the place of M. * * Actes & Monuments , anno 1596 pag. 1309. Fox , but no mention of equiuocation . A monster not hatched in those times . That which was obiected by Doctor Weston , is there satisfied by M. Cranmer : but you are more rigorous then auncient Aduersaries .

Yet further would I demand , why Protestants , turning from Papacie in the daies of King Edward , must be condemned for such as haue equiuocated : and Papists reuolting from Protestants in the raigne of Queene Mary , must be thought to haue bene innocents ?

The moderate Answerer .

c c Answ. quo supra . Aequiuocating was practised by Caluine , as the Lord of Canterbury , and Beza , and others record .

The Reply .

I reported this your accusation to my Lord of Canterbury , and his Grace answered , that you had wronged his testimony : for I am sure ( said his Grace ) that this mystery in those times was not set abroach . We also examined the book you alledge , and find not one syllable for your purpose . But what can we expect from you , Patrons of lying equiuocation , but in your accusations against Protestants equiuocating lies ?

The most moderate Answerer in his railing .

d d Answer ca. 10 § But to . Luther was so vile in this kind of equiuocating , that neuer pillory mate behaued himselfe so as he did . Cogging , lying , equiuocating , dissembling was practised by Caluine , who was banished for a dissembling seducer . Cranmer periured himselfe , and excused it by equiuocation .

The Reply .

In these your lying slanders , you giue vs good hope that you will leaue your equiuocating lies , because , as though you detested the impietie thereof , you vilifie it with these termes , vile equiuocating , adiudging it worthy the pillory , matching it with cogging , lying , seducing , periury . This is yet very wel . But we find that true which the Orator saith , Natura suilena : Euery man naturally is a band vnto himselfe . Now you examining your Glycerie equiuocation in your aduersaries , Luther , Cranmer , Caluine , O then it is vile , cogging , lying , seducing , &c. But beholding her in your owne embracements , so e e Answer ibid , § Secondly . In equiuocating there is nolie nor sinne . Adulterous Iudah iudging of Thamar , whom he had vnknowingly knowne , hearing that she was brought in for an adulteresse , gaue presently sentence , * * Gen. 38. 24. Let her be burned : but when by certaine euidences and pledges she made it knowne vnto him , that if she were the woman , he was the man ; then he confesseth , She is more righteous then I. There was some modestie in this , but what moderation do you vse to adiudge equiuocation ( which you fas●ly faine to be in Protestants ) to the pillory : and for your selues , in whom the Leprosie raigneth , to vse an Apologie ?

Thus haue I iustified the innocent , whose names your equiuocating spirit hath wickedly traduced : for whom this might haue bin a sufficient answer , that ( because you bring onely accusations without proofe ) f f Si accusâ●●e sufficiet , qui● innocens 〈◊〉 Seneca . If it be sufficient to haue accused , who can be innocent ? For our Lord Iesus , euen innocency it self , was accused : who of his grace turne you to repentance , that these your slaunders be not layd vnto your charge .

THE THIRD PART ,

Which is a Confutation of the principles of Romish doctrine , in two points : 1. The supreme head of Rebellion . 2. The impious conceit of Aequiuocation .

Concerning the first , this shall be our Conclusion :

The Pope hath no authoritie from God to depose Kings or dispose of their Kingdomes .

CHAP. I.

Romish Obiections answered .

THIS pretended predominance of the Pope in temporall causes , whether a a Directè , queadmodú super Episcopos , in quos ipse autoritatem exercet vel ordinandi vel remouendi ▪ Carerius Tract . de Potest . Rom. Pont. & 〈◊〉 Tract de M●…arch Eccles. Directly , or b b Habet Papa potestatem temporalem indirectè in ordine ad Deum in disponendis rebus temporalibus omnium Christianorum ; quemadmodu●… Spiritus dicitur praeesse carni , non quidem ipse exercendo corporales actiones , sed per intellectualem facultatem , viz. voluntatem , carni imperando vt se castiget , & alia exercitia & afflictiones , etiam martyria subeat , Bellar , lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 4. & 6 , & Sauderus Tract . de visib . Monarch . indirectly considered , ( in the which diuision of gouerning , the Romish schoole is at this day extremely diuided ) if it be from God , it will sure plead , Scriptum est , and be warranted by Gods word either in the Olde or New Testament .

This point is discussed by the state of Gods church in the Olde Testament .

Obiect . 1. In the generall view . The Romish Pretence .

c c Dico Pontificem in veteri Testamento fuisse Regemaiorem . C●●eriu● lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 5. & 9. E●dom modo Sauderu● in visib . Monarch . The high Priests in the Olde Testament were supreme in ciuill causes . Ergo : Ought to be in the New .

The Answer .

This is so contrary to the Story in holy writ , that by the examples of Kings in ordering ( though neuer in ordeining ) of Priests , the Iesuits are inforced to allow that the King was supreme ouer the Priest . Their reasons : d d Dicunt , Protestantes , Reges in veteri Testamento praescripsisse Sacerdotibus quae in rebus sacris gerere debebant , & etiam negligentes Sacerdotes à ministerio abdicasse : respondotur , mirum esse hoc non debere , quia synagoga Iud●eorum , etiam si aliquos iustos contineret , tamen dicebatur terrenum potiùs quam coeleste regnum . Itaque cùm populus constet ex corpore & anima , carnalis pars in veteri populo primas tenebat . Salmeron Iesuita in Epist. Pauli in giner . disp. 12. §. Sed contra . Because ( sayth one ) in the Synagogne of the Iewes was a state rather earthly than heauenly ; so that in that people ( which was , as in the body of a man , consisting of body and soule ) the carnall part was more eminent . Meaning , the temporall to haue beene supreme . Or , as another sayth more conceitedly ; e e In veteri lege Regnum erat Substantiuum , & Sac●rdotium Adiectiuum , &c. Carerius quo supra lib. 2. cap. 1. The Temporall state exceeded the Spirituall in the olde Law , as much as the Substantiue is more excellent than the Adiectiue . In both these we dislike their comparison , and accept their conclusion , which is this : In the Old Testament the Kings authority was aboue the Priests . And therefore they can not prooue the ▪ souerainty of the Pope ouer Kings by the state of the Olde Testament . Albeit this is infallible , yet are not the Romish ashamed to argue from thence both by typicall Analogy , and by examples .

Their Analogie . CHAP. II.

The second Obiection .

The Romish Pretence .

a a Et hoc regnum terrenu vmbra tamen fuit spiritualis regiminis in ecclesia Christiana . Salineron Ies. quo supra . Bellarm. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. quo supra . THe Olde Testament was a figure of the New in Christ . And b b Regnum in Lege veteri Substantiuum fuit , Sacerdotium vero Adiectiuum : In lege verò Euangelica sacerdotium Substantiuum , & regnum Adiectiuum . Car●rius quo supra . Therefore in the New , the Spirituall ( as Popedome ) is the Substantiue , & the Kingdome is but the Adiectiue .

The Answer .

In this Obiection there is more childhood than manhood , babish Grammar than sound Diuinitie . The Olde Testament indeed in his earthly elements was a figure of the spirituall and heauenly , but of the truely heauenly , the day of that eternall * * Heb. 4. Sabbath and the celestiall Hierusalem the mother citie of the Saints of God . And the Argument may be retorted .

The Argument returned vpon the Romish .

Christ being c c Christus no fuit rex temporalis Iudaeae sed spiritualis Ecclesiae ; cuius regni eius figura fuit regnum temporale Dauidis & Salomonis hac enim ratione de dit Christo Pater sedem Dau●d Patris . Salmeron Ies. quo supra . King and Priest was shadowed by the types of the Olde Testament : but in Christ , his kingdome had the preheminence of Priesthood , because he is Priest only for vs , but he is King ouer vs : secondly , as Priest he is suppliant to the Father ; as King he is predominant ouer all powers and principalities equally with the Father . Ergo this order inherent in Christ ought to holde as conuenient among Christians . An argument Demonstratiue .

CHAP. III.

Obiect. 3. from 14. examples .

The Romish Pretence .

a a Deus IN the old Testament we finde 1 1 Saulem per Samuelis , Saul deposed by the Prophet Samuel ; 2 2 Rehoboam per Achiae , Rehoboam by the Prophet Achia ; 3 3 Athaliam per Iehoidae Sacerdotis vocem regnis suis priuauit . Sander . de Claue Dauid . lib. 2. cap. 6. Athalia by Iehoiada the Priest ; 4 4 Mattathias gladium politicum sibi sumpsit , & postea silijs reliquit , quo Regem Antiochum ( qui Iudaeis imperabat ) iure eius imperij priuabant . Ibid. lib. 2. cap. 42. Scriptura exemplum Mattathias lift vp his sword against Antiochus , and did remooue him ; 5 5 Elias , & Elias also and Elizeus both Prophets did kill the false Prophets , and other Ministers of the King .

7 7 Iudith , Aeglon ab Iudith did kill Holophernes , 8 8 Ahod , Sisera a Ahod Aeglon , 9 9 Iabel occ●sus est , ita cum haereticis agendum est in vindictam populi . Ibidem 271. Quemadmodum Iabel Sisera : Saul was dispossessed of his kingdome by 10 10 Dauid , Ahab by Dauid , Ahab by 11 11 Elizaeus ; de quorum altero dicitur [ Deiecisti Reges ad perniciem : ] de altero , [ In diebus suis non pertimuit Principem ] hoc est officium Christianum . Reinaldu● in R●saeus pag. 619. & 697. Vt Holophernes 〈◊〉 Iehu , 12 12 Amon by the people . Parsons in his Do●man . We must follow herein Amon by the people : and the 13 13 Macchabaei , & ipsi de genere Sacerdotum exemplum praebent Sacerdotibus nostris contra Principes religioni Catholicae infestos pugnandi . Lib. de ●●sta Abdicat . pag. 57. In 2. Paralip. 26. M●cca●ees sought against Kings for defence of God● worship : L●stly king 14 14 Ozias Rex cùm Sacerdotis officium exercere vellet , à Pontifice de templo eiectus est , & separ●tus extra regnum , & consequentèr regnandi autoritate priuatus . B●llar . lib. 5. de Pont. cap. 8. Ozias for exercising the Priests office was by the high Priest depriued of his kingdome . Mattathiae imitandum proponit : sic fecerunt Prophetae , nominatim , Elias quadraginta Prophetas , inuito Rege , occidit ; & 〈◊〉 Ahod Aeglon●m Mo●bitam ; ita aduersus Regem & populum haereticum animati esse debemus , Lib. de iusta A●dicat . Hen. 3. pag. 57. & 273. We must follow 〈◊〉 Eliah , & 〈◊〉 Elizaeus , who &c. Saul was deposed by Iehu , and 〈◊〉 Elias , and 〈◊〉 Elizaeus . A●●e● in his Admonit. pag. 30. & 31.

The Answer to six kinds of these examples .

Heere we heare of nothing but fighting , dispossessing , killing of Kings , and those chieflie by Priests and Prophets of God in the old Testament : propounded to the Prelates of the new , to teach them to erect their miters aboue crowns . But first our question is of the obedience of Subiects to their lawfull Kings , not of for●aine inuadors o● false vsurpers . But b b Legimus quidem filio● Israël tempore Iudicum frequentèr eorum , qui imperabant , iugum excussisse , & clarissimam viduam Manie examples of the old Testament ( saith your Doctor ) we reade of such , as haue borne armes and vsed hostilitie against Kings , who being not their naturall Princes , either did , or would inuade their kingdomes , to bring them into thraldome : Such both by the law of nature and ordinance of God may be resisted . c c Quemadmodum And this was the case of 8 8 Ahod , qui Aeglonem regem Moab , dolo & arte con●ecit : ac Ahod against Aeglon , 9 9 Iabel , quae Siseram Principem Regis Canaan sustulit : Gedeon qui tyrannidem Madianitarum amolitus est , Iephthe Ammonitarum , Samson ●hilistaeorum , & heroi●a Iabel against Siser●… ▪ 7 7 Iudith , & Iudith against Holophernes , the 13 13 Macchabaeos Regibus fortitèr restitisse , & bellis ac armis repugnasse . Sed haec exempla non quid contra legitimum suum Principem ac naturalem Dominum populos facere debeat ostendunt ; sed quid aduersus eos , qui veri Regis autoritatem , sedes regi●s , bona & thaesauros per vim occupant : Neque enim illi , contra ▪ quos à sanctis bels● illa fortitèr gerenda suscepta sunt , legitimi filiorum Israël Principes fuerunt , sed tyrannice vi sibi populum Dei subiugarunt , vel subiugare volebant . C●nerus de ●s●ic . Princ. Christ . cap. 7. Macchabees against Antioch●… . Therefore our aduersaries haue roaued at a wrong marke : for by this your Cunerus confession , your 3. example of ●eho●d d d Huiusmodi exempla non sunt ad rem , quia non agunt de rege legitimo , sed deinuaso●e , &c. Barcla●…s lib. 3. contra Monarch●… . cap. 24. your 4. of Mattathias , your 7. of Iudith , your 8. of Ahod , your 9. of Iabell , and your 13. of Macchabees ; Who onely resisted vniust inuadors , and not naturall kings , pertaine nothing to the purpose . 7 Iudith caput sustulit Holophernis , & 13 Macchabaei fortissimè Antiocho & Deme●…o Tyrannis restiterunt , & per vim ingressos , viribus suis auctis , simili vi expulerunt . Quod lex & Dei ordinatio exigit . Cunerus ibid. cap. 8.

The Answer to two other examples .

Secondly we dispute of lawfull examples of deposing kings : but behold your 1 * * 2. Sam. 1. ver. 8 & 15. Saul was killed of an Amalachite , whom therfore Dauid commanded to be slaine . Your 12 * * 2. Reg. 21. Ammon also was slaine of his owne seruants , who were therefore pursued and slaine of the people , because of th●ir conspiracie against the king . Thus your 1. and 12. examples which you propound for your imitation rather shew what you would , then what you should be , yet so it is , that wicked acts are the best examples you can alledge to proportionate your godlesse conclusions .

The Answer to fiue other examples .

Thirdly , extraordinarie acts can be no presidents for ordinary or generall axioms : e e Sed quae haec ( bone Deus ! ) consequentia est ? Propheta pronunciauit contra Ieroboam iudicium diuinum . Ergo Ecclesia habet ius in Reges . Nihil inscitius : nihil enim ad Prophetam , nam Prophetae multi nulla potestate Sacerdotali praediti fuerunt . Deinde Prophetarum munus in denunciatione iudiciorum Dei extraordinaria fuit : quae ad probandam ordinationem nullà consecutionis necessitate valeat . Barclaius ibid. But ( your selues cannot deny ) many of your examples were specially priuiledged functions by Prophets and others extraordinarily and immediately from God appointed to those offices : and therefore cannot inferre any ordinarie power of altering States and kingdomes . Of this kind was 1. Samuel the Prophet , who dissolued the succession of Saul . 2. Achia the Prophet who diuided Ieroboam from Rehoboam : 5. Elias the Prophet , who slew these Baalites , and destroyed the messengers of the King : 6. Elizeus the Prophet who raised vp Iehu against Ahab and his family : and * * 2. Chron. 26. Nathan and Dauid Prophets who preferred Salomon in succession . Therefore your f f Christus cùm ciecit Mercatores è templo , non quasi Regia aut Pontificia autoritate , sed , more Prophetarum , zelo quodam : quemadmodum Phinees occidit scortatores , & 2. 5. 6. examples be satisfied . For in them , that will holde which Bellarmine acknowledgeth in one 5 5 Elias Prophetas Baal . Bellarus . lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 4. §. Respondeo Christum . Elias ; To haue beene done by zeale , and not by Pontisicall authoritie , like that act of Phin●es in destroying those fornicators of Israel .

The last two examples obiected .

g g In 2. Paralip. 26. In the 2. Chron. 26. The high Priest deposed 14 14 Ozias Rex cum sacerdotis officium exercere vellet , à Pontifice de templo eiectus est , & separatus extra regnum , & consequenter regnandi autoritate priuatus . Et 2. Paralip. 23. vbi Oziah , or Vziah , from his kingdome : And in the 2. Chron. 23. Iehoida the Priest put downe 3 3 Athalia tyrannicè occupasset regnum , & foueret cultum Baal , Iehoida , & Pontifex vocauit centuriones & milites , & iussit eos vt Athaliam interficerent . Bellar. lib. 5. de Rom. Pont. cap. 8. Athalia , and commanded her to be slaine .

The answer to the former example .

King Ozias was strucke by the hand of God with leprosie , and therefore by the law of God might not come into the common societie of men , for feare of contagion . He was not therefore deposed from his soueraigntie , but only as a sicke King disabled and debarred the ordinarie execution . A thing so manifest , that your owne Doctor calleth this your assertion h h Hoc ( quod obijcit Bellar. supra chap. 3. ) ipsa imprimis Biblia , historici etiam atque interpretes falsitatis arguunt : nunquam enim de regno eiectus fuit Ozias , sed tamdiù regnauit , quamdiù virit , nempè , totos quinquaginta duos annos ex quo regnum anno aetatis decimo sexto inierat , vt patet 4. Reg. 15. & 2. Paralip . 26. Mortuus autem Ozias , inquit Iosephus lib. 9. Antiq. cap. 11. aetatis suae anno 68. regni vero anno sui 52. Si ergo annum 16. agebat cum regnare coepit , & annos quinquaginta duos ( scripturâ teste ) regnabat , obijtque annum agens 68. Ostende , si potes , quo & quanto tempore de regno deiectus fuerit . Magna sanè impudem a est ea scriptis mandare , quae manifestis Scripturae testimonijs redarguuntur . Aegrotante Patre , filius Rectorem & Curatorem dicitur domus Patris , non Regem egisse : testante ibidem Scripturâ , [ Dormiuit Ozias sepultus in agro sepulchrorum regalium , eò quod esset leprosus , regnauitque Ionathan pro eo . ] Falsissimum igitur est , quod scribis , Oziam ab Azaria Sacerdote de regno fuisse de●●ctum . Barclaius lib. 5. contra Monarchom . cap. 11. Most false , and contrarie to the direct historie of the Bible , and ancient Interpretors , because it is manifest ( saith he ) that he died a King , and his Sonne during his leprosie was only Rector , &c. It falleth out oftentimes that some Noble-man is ordained Regent to moderate matters during the minoritie of the King ; is therefore the right and reall King bereaued of his crowne ?

The Answer to the example of 3 Athalia .

This example is satisfied * * Supra in the first Answer . already : only now I will adde a confirmation of that which hath beene said . Athalia ( 2. King . 11. ) put to death all the Kings seed , excepting onely Ioash , who by good meanes was hidde from her ; after he was come to age , produced , and , according to his right of succession , proclaimed lawfull King , commanding Athalia , as an vsurper , to be slaine . So plaine , that the fore-cited Doctor doth yeeld vnto it : i i Expulsit Iehoida Athaliam quae immani tyran . ●●ide per caedem regiae Sobolis regnum occupabat . Barclaius quo supra . lib. 5. cap. 11. She was deposed ( saith he ) for destroying the Princes of the blood royall , and vsurping the kingdome . Now what maner of disputation call you this , when to the defenders of the soueraigntie of lawfull Kings , you oppose only the examples of intolerable vsurpers ?

The last Answer to all the former examples in generall .

Fourthly , example without law is as a bodie without a soule : for though God be a law to himselfe , yet his reuealed commandement is a law to man . As Gen. 4. vers. 7. His desire shal be subiect vnto thee : this is the canon law , the eldest is to be preferred in succession , but yet dispensable onely with God , Genes. 25. 23. The eldest shall serue the yoongest . And thus was Iehu a seruant sent of God to resist Ahab his King ; and thus was tolerated that defection of Israel from * * 2. Chron. 10. & 11. forged to allow that that defection of the people from their lawfull King , was malum poenae ; the euill of punishment , and iust : but for the people to deflect and re●●lt to idolatrie , that was malum culpae , their owne sinne . Rehoboam their lawful King , vnto Ieroboam the idolatrous . These be all your owne examples .

Now I would argue thus : If Gods dispensation in particulars could inferre a generall application , then might we conclude from this example of Ieroboam , that it shal be lawfull for subiects to forsake their lawfull Kings religious , and to adhere to another King idolatrous : A conclusion ( I am sure ) in your owne doctrine most impious ; and yet your argument doth inforce this conclusion .

CHAP. IIII.

The Argument from examples of the old Testament returned vpon the Romish .

1. In generall .

IN generall obserue : there be recorded in the old Testament the examples of nineteene wicked Kings of Israel ; such as were either Idolaters , or Tyrants , or Apostates : with fourteene others as wicked in the Kingdome of Iuda , and yet not one of all them were by a Priest or people deposed from their Kingdomes .

2. In particular . The first example of Saul and Dauid .

King Saul , a a Nam Saul primus rex populi Israel , pessimus , vt notum est , postea Tyrannus extitit , qui innocentissimum Dauidem , optimè de ipso ac regno meritum , crudelissimè ac obstinatissimè persecut' est . Cuner . de off●… . Princ. cap. 7. 1. Sam. 28. For he was the first King of Israël , prouing himselfe in the end ( you know ) a most wicked man , and a verie tyrant . yea such an one as was in a sort excommunicate : * * Dauid , cum in spelunca à militibus suis incitaretur ; ne quaquam manus suas extendere voluit , sed quod amplius est , cum silentèr partem chlamydis abscidisset , quasi alicuius peccati propter id conscius , percussit cor suum Dauid , & dixit ad viros suos : [ Propitius sit mihi Dominus , ne faciam hanc rem Domino meo Christo Domini , vt mittam manum meam in eum , quia Christus Domini est , viuit Dominus , quia nisi Dominus percusserit eum , aut dies eius venerit vt moriatur , aut descendens in praelium perierit , propitius sit mihi Dominus , vt non m●ttam manum meam in Christum Domini . Et iterum cum Saulum dormientem , & sopore sepultum repe●iret , dixit Dauid ad Abisay , ne interfi●…s eum , quis enim extendet manum suam in Christum Domini , & innocens erit ? Apertè ostendens se non propter amorem erga hominem , sed propter conscientiam erga Deum à caede abstinuisse . Cunerus quo supra . God refusing to speake vnto him either in dreames or visions , &c. This example your Cardinall obiecteth against Protestants : b b Allen in his Admonition pag 30. & 31. This man ( saith he ) was by Gods appointment deposed from his Kingdome by Samuel : so that after the sentence knowen , Dauid might lawfully haue killed him . A Carnals , ( I should haue said ) a Cardinals conceit , vtterly condemned by Dauid himselfe . For c c Sane Dauid persecuted by Saul ( as the * * 1. Sam. 24. storie sheweth , and your Bishop acknowledgeth ) when he was now in a caue where he had Saul in his power , excited by his souldiers to kill him , would not lay violent hands vpon his person ; but which is more , closely cutting off a lappe of his cloake : ( as though euen in that he had offended ) stroke his owne brest , saying thus to the souldiers , [ God be mercifull vnto me , that I doe not this wickednesse against him ; as the Lord liueth , except the Lord strike him , or his day shall come to die , or that he perish in warres , God be mercifull vnto me that I ●ay not mine hands vpon the Lordes anointed . * * 1. Sam. 26. Yea after Dauid found Saul asleepe , he said to his owne seruant Abisay ; Let vs not kill him , for who shall laie his hands vpon the anointed of God , and be innocent ? ] Shewing euidently that he did refraine to kill Saul , not so much for the loue to his person , as for conscience towards God . And yet your purpurate Cardinall would from this same example of Dauid die his gowne afresh in the blood of his Soueraigne : concluding ( contrarie to Dauid ) It was lawfull for Dauid to kill Saul .

The Application of this former example in the position confuteth the Romish .

This example of Saul and Dauid , ( if there were no other in the whole booke of God ) might suffice for full determination of this cause : for there is nothing which you can pretend for the iust deposing of any person , which is not correspondent in this example .

First you require in the person to be deposed that he be either a Tyrant , or Excommunicate , or an Apostate from God : but 1. Saul by persecuting Dauid an innocent , ( which he did not by order of law , but by mortall enmity ) is by your Bishop defined a d d Cunerus supra in hoc cap. lit . 〈◊〉 . Tyrant : 2. by being * * 1. Sam. 28. forsaken of God , an excommunicate : 3. by * * 1. Chro. 13. 3. asking counsell of a witch of Endor , an Apostate .

Secondly , the end of deposing you pretend is the Catholicke cause , propagation of true religion . This end might Dauid haue proclaimed , because ( after Sauls death hec saith , * * The moderate Answerer supra . [ But we will bring againe the arke of God , for we sought it not in the dates of Saul . Signifying equall necessity of the restitution of religion .

Thirdly , you in deposing of the possessour must foresee a probability of * * 1. Sam. 16. an hopefull Successour : behold heere is godly * * Supra . Dauid anointed of Samuel the Prophet , ordained of God to succeed Saul after his decease .

Lastly , you professe to attempt this deposing and murdering of such a King , * * 1. Sam. 24. As soone as there is an opportunity to effect it . Marke heere , * Dauid hath the tyrant in a ca●● , as able to stabbe him to the hart , as to cut off the lappe of his garment : another time finding him and all his guard asleep , and able now to cast him into a dead sleepe : Notwithstanding all this , Dauid , who was afterwards to performe the office of a gratious King in ruling , doth now practise the duty of a faithfull Subiect in obeying . And now from the application of the position we descend vnto

The Application of his practise .

1. Dauid flieth into a Caue or vault of the earth , yet not to plot , but to auoid parricide . 2. Dauid hauing Saul in his power , he cutteth off only the lappe of the garment of the King , so farre was he from cutting off the head and shoulders of a kingdome . 3. Dauid praieth not God speed the proceeding of the complot of treason , but God forbidde ; and , God be mercifull vnto me , that I doe not this wickednesse . 4. Dauid sweareth also , but what ? a sacramentall oath of secrecy , and confederacy , To doe it as soone as possibly he can● No , but As the Lord liueth I will not lay my hands vpon the Lords anointed . To conclude , when Saul is slaine by an Amalakite , Dauid entertaineth the murtherer , but how ? reioicing and approuing the act ? or as thus dignifying the malefactour , e e So sayd Pope Sixtus Quintus of the like . ô memorable act ! ô religious man ! No , but he * * 2. Sam. 1. 11. Rent his owne clothes , fasted and wept and commanded the murtherer to be slaine , saying , Thy sinne be vpon thine own head . &c. This one example of this incomparable seruant of God Dauid is therefore recorded in the volume of Gods booke , that in one man all men might haue a double example to imitate ; Kings to behold him as he was a gratious King , and no Tyrant : Subiects to beholde him , as a faithfull subiect euen to a Tyrant .

CHAP. V.

The second example , which must be returned vpon the Romish , is that which hath beene of them obiected of Elias .

* * 2. King . 1. ELias did call for fire from heauen , and destroied the Captaines and Messengers from the King . Ergo ( say your men ) Protestants officers may be so dealt with by vs Priests . Now , we argue contrarily , Ergo this may not be attempted of Gods Ministers . 1. because Elias was no Priest , but a Prophet , that is , his calling was not ordinarie , but extraordinarie , as appeareth by his act , [ Fire from heauen ] a worke miraculous . 2. Our Sauior Christ , who did assoile this question long agoe , hath taught vs how to conclude ; for * * Luc. 9. 52. When his Disciples asked him saying , Master shall we command fire from heauen to destroy them , as Elias did ? * * vers. 55. Iesus rebuked them , saying , you know not what spirit you are of : for the sonne of man came not to destroy but to saue the world . Concluding from the same example negatiuely , namely , that the Ministers of the Gospel must not heerein imitate Elias .

The Application of this example and Answer .

Whom doe you seeke to destroy ? Protestants , whom you call Heretikes : but marke , 1. these disciples desired to destroie Those * * vers. 51. Samaritânes , namely the false worshippers , which had long before forsaken the true religion of God ; and therefore now disliked Christ , * * vers. 53. Because his face was as though he would goe to Hierusalem : that is , because of his religion , for that he gaue some signification that he meant to goe to the feast at Hierusalem to solemnise the true worship of God according to the lawe . Secondly what haue Protestants done ? * * Iesuits supra . They will not admit of our Priests , and our high Priest and Vicar of Christ the Pope they doe reiect .

And these Samaritans in this place , * * vers. 53. Would not receiue Christ . 3. What therefore ? A generall destruction at * * The stratageme . one terrible blow : and these desire to * * Luc. 9. 54. Call for fire to consume these Samaritans . 4. Now who are you ? Men zealous of Gods glory : and these for their zeale are * * Marc. 3. 17. Surnamed the Sonnes of thunder . 5. To what end doe you breath fire , and why are your mouthes so hot ? In ordine ad Deum : euen for the glorie of God , aduancement of the church of Christ : So these wished * * vers. 54. fire from heauen , namely , that it comming by the prayer of Christ immediately from heauen , God might be glorified in his Sonne . 6. What ground haue you for such an attempt ? The example of Elias : the same example did these Bonarges alledge saying , * * vers. 54. As Elias did .

Notwithstanding all which , Christ answereth you in them , saying , * * vers. 55. You know not what spirit you are of , adding , I am not come to destroie , but to saue : shewing that there is as much difference betweene a minde so resolued , and a true regenerate spirit , as is betweene Christ and Elias , Law and Gospel , destruction and saluation . Thus the Sonnes of thunder and our Sonnes of powder being rightly compared , there is only this difference : They would not haue fire except from Gods owne hand , from heauen , an argument of their patience ; these , as men desperate , will worke it in many barrels in the earth , as if it had beene from hell . they consult with Christ , * * vers. 54. Master wilt thou that we command ? you without all command , yea against Gods forbid , seeke the ruine of a Kingdome .

The Conclusion from the old Testament .

Seeing that 1. there was No soueraigntie either of * * Supra . Priests or a a Nullum extat in sacris literis exemplum pro potestate populi in Reges . Barclaius lib. 3. contra Monarchom cap. 6. People ouer Kings ; we are taught from the example of the people of God ( as saith your Cunerus ) b b Magna patientia populus Israël plurima ab hu●●smodi Tyrannis mala sustinuit , qua tamen facilè poterat resistendo repellere , vsque ade● cordibus hominum lege naturae inscriptum est , potestati non resist●… , Scriptura vbique nobis attestante , Regibus , licet reccent , vim nullan esse inferendam , quoniam causa nostra est ●unc Deo committenda . Cuner . i. de●…. Princ. cap. 7. With great patience to indure the tyrannie of mortall Kings , yea when we haue power to resist . And because they be next vnder God in earth , in all their iniuries To commende the reuenge vnto God . Nay he teacheth Kings an other excellent rule of policie , fitting for the preseruation of all States , which is , c c Paralip . 24. De quo sic Cunerus . Qui fuit verus Rex Iudae , & cum ad Idola impunè relicto D●o declinaret , & Zachariam Prophetam , ●ilium Ieho●dae , interfecisset , serui quidam Zelo commoti , insidiat●…nt Regi , & occiderunt illum in lectulo suo : sed iustè ab Ama●ia regem sequente regulati sunt . Cunerus lib. de O●●i● Prin● . cap. 7. He who succeedeth a King violently murdered of any , though of a godly zeale , yet ought he to reuenge his Predecessors death by the death of the male factors .

Thus much of the old Testament concerning the law of Subiection ; wherein we haue many lawes to obey Kings , but none to resist : We ascend to the new Testament sealed by Christ his death , whose speech is true concerning the Ciuill law of the prerogatiue of Kings which he spake of the Morall law of God , * * Matth. 5. 17. I come not to destroy the Law , but to fulfill the Law .

CHAP. VI.

The former Question disputed according to the state of the new Testament .

The Romish shewing the state of the question .

a a Carerius , & Bozius . Vide supra . THe Pope hath all absolute and direct power and dominion temporal ouer all Kings & Kingdoms of the world . Which we prooue by consent of Diuines , and Canonists : And the Defendors of the contrary to be but meer Polititians . Take heed , there was a spirit that shewed a synopsis of All the nations of the world to our Sauiour , and said , * * Matth 4. 9. All these will I giue thee : he was no lawfull Doner , but a lying Tempter . From whom it may seeme this your doctrine had his stampe , b b Francise . de Victoria Relect. 1. Sect. 6. For ( to beleeue your owne Doctor ) to say that the Pope hath all temporall domimon ouer all the world , is nothing else but a flattering of the Pope : And c c Bellarminus , vide supra . False ( saith your Iesuite ) as I shall prooue . You will not then contend for all the world ; what say you to all Kings in Christendome ? d d Bellar. vide supra . Victor . Relect. 1. Sect. 6 Sander . de visib . Monarch . pertotum & alij supra . He hath ouer these indirectly , that is , as it may be behoouefull for the Spirituall good , power temporall ouer all these . By what law ? e e Non iure politico sed diuino . Sanderus lib. 2. de Clauib . Dauid . cap. 10. Not by Ciuill but Diuine law . Well then , this would be prooued , either by Scripture or by tradition , or at least some probable reason .

Obiections from Scriptures .

1. Obiection . The Romish pretence .

f f Petrus quo tempore accepit ●laues regni coelorum , accepit ius quoque destruendi & aedificandi regna in Ecclesia Christi , quandò id expediret . Itaq : gladium politicum habuit Petrus concessum sibi , non quidem ad finem politicum , sed ad spiritualem , viz. salutem animarum : in quem finem ●o gladio Pontifex vti debet . Sanderus lib. 2. de Clauibus . cap. 10. pag. 41. Saint Peter when he receiued of Christ the keies of the Kingdome of heauen , he also receiued the temporall and ciuill sword , and a right of erecting and destroying kingdomes ; as farre foorth as hee might thinke it behoouefull for the good of soules , and to this end ought the Popeto use the ciuill sword . This cannot be , for g g In Ecclesia sunt claues regni coelo●um . Matth. 16. & 18. Sed haec potestas est alia à ciuili potestate , quae certe non habet huiusmodi claues : confirmatur , quia vsus ostenditur , Remittendi & r●…endi peccati , Ioh. 20. quae potestas non est in Rege ciuili . Victoria Relect. 1. Sect. 2. §. Teruò probatur . By the k●ies of the kingdome of heauen ( as your Victoria determineth ) is signified a spirituall autoritie different from the ciuill iurisdiction , as is prooued by the vse , which is remitting and deteining of sinnes : which no way can belong to ciuill autoritie . Neither can any shew me any one Doctor of but reasonable antiquitie , ( Peto vel ex millibus vnum ) who by keies , vnderstand a ciuill power . It were au excellent Art if you could make a sword of a paire of keies ; and as profound Diuinitie were it to turne spirituall regiment into politike .

2. Obiection . The Romish pretence .

h h Cùm dicitur Petro , [ Pasce oues ] Ioh. 20. intelligitur ea potestas , quae est ad gregem regendum necessa●…a , id●irco ad Lupos , id est , Principes haereticos arcendos , & pabulum ouibus ministrandum . Bell. lib. 5. de Pont. ca. 7. Where it is said to Peter , Ioh● 21. [ Feede my sheepe ] is vnderstood the power wherby the Pastor may driue away a woolfe ( such an one is an hereticall Prince ) from his flocke . Againe : i i Nam Princeps ours & silius est sacerdotis spiritualis , at Sacerdos Ouis aut silius Principis nullo modo dici possit : quoniam omnes Clerici suum habent Principem spiritualem , à quo non in spiritualibus solùm , sed etiam in temporalibus reguntur : neque sieri possit vt duas agnoscant Principes in rebus temporalibus , cùm , iuxta Euangelium , nemo possit duobus Dominis seruire . Bellar. disp. de Exempt . Cleric . cap. 3. in calce . Quod opus vnà cum libris de Indulgentijs compingitur . A Prince is the spirituall sheepe of a Priest , but a Priest cannot be called the sonne of a Prince : for Priests haue their spirituall Gouernour , to whom they are subiect both in spirituall and temporall matters , and to no other .

The Answer .

It was neuer read , heard , nor dreamed , that [ Feed my sheep ] should signifie any temporall feeding , as though Princes must be dieted corporally at the Popes discretion ; this will follow vpon your assertion , because the metaphor , Feede , hath more significant relation to diet then to dominion . Againe , k k Aliae Scripturae Principibus Pastorum & Patrum officia tribuunt , quemadmodum Dauid pro subditis suis interpellans ; Ego , inquit , peccaui , iste grex quid commetuit ? vbi 70 Interpretes habent , Ego sum Pastor , istae Oues &c. 1. Paralip . 21. Cunerus de Offic. Princ. cap. 1. Rex saepe Pastor dicitur . Mich. 5. Ribera Ies. Comm. in hunc locum . Num. 31. Scriptures doe often call Princes Pastors , as your owne Doctors demonstrate , and as plaine it is , Kings are called nourcing fathers ; Es . 29. And we will make no question but that Father is a relatiue to a Sonne , and therefore a Priest may be a sonne vnto a Prince .

Lastly your deuice of exemption of Priests is too crude to be easily digested of any reasonable Diuine , for ( as your Victoria saith ) l l Personae Clericorum non exemptae sunt omninò , & quo ad à potestate ciuili , nec iure humano nec diuino : qui praeter quod sunt Eclesiae , sunt etiam ciues Reip. & Rex est Rex non solùm Laicorum , sed etiam Clericorum ; Ergo aliquo modo Clerici subijciuntur ei , qui in quantum ad temporalia non administrantur potestate Ecclesiastica , sed in istis Principi obedire tenentur . Fr. Victoria Relect. 1. Sect. 7. Priests , besides that they are Ministers of the Church , they are likewise members of the common-wealth ; and a King is as well a King of the Cleargie , as of the Laitie : therefore the Cleargie is subiect vnto the ciuill autoritie in temporall things ; for such matter is not ruled by any power spirituall . a plaine demonstration .

The third Obiection from the prophecie of the old Testament , and the euents of the new . The Romish pretence .

This is the tenor of the late yongue Buls of Popes , as of m m Paulus ●…piscopus , seruus seruorum Dei , &c. Nos in iustitiae sede constitu●i , iuxta Prophetae vaticinium dicentis , [ Ecce te constitui super Gentes , & regna , vt ●u●llas & de●●ruas , plantes & aedifices . Bulla Pauli 3. aduersus Henric. 8. Regem Angliae . Paulus 3. n n Pius , &c. Regnans in excelsis , cui data est omnis in coelo & in terra potestas , quem super omnes Gentes & super omnia regna Principem constituit , Qui euellat , destruat , dissipet , disperdat , plantet , aedificet , &c. Bulla Pij Quinti cap. 39. & aliae aliorum Pontificum Bullae . Pius 5. and all their followers . I the seruant of the seruants of God , placed in the seat of iustice , according to the Prophecie of Ieremie , where it is written ( Ierem. 1. ) [ Behold I haue appointed thee ouer Nations to roote them vp and destroy them , to plant and establish them ] doe excommunicate these Kings and their fauorites , absoluing subiects from their obedience , and commanding them to take vp armes to roote them out . Is this the true sense of that Prophecie ? o o Hoc Propheta in persona Christi ad Romanum Pontificem loquitor . Carerius de potest . Rom. Pont. lib. 1. cap. 3. Rursus . ●er . Prophetae autoritas haec temporalis con●irmatur , sc. per correctionem & punitionem , si Reges mali fierent . Carer . ibid. It was spoken to the Bishops of Rome in the person of Christ .

The Answer .

O arrogant glossers , yea impudent glosers and peruerters of the sacred Oracles of God! Did euer Ieremie put downe Kings to root them out ? Hearken to your Lyranus : p p Tantùm denunciando esse destruendas . Lyranus in cum locum . No , he did onely denounce Gods iudgements against wicked Kinges . Hearken to that godly Pope Gregorie , who sheweth that Ieremies act was onely q q Frustra Hieremias , nisi peruersa destrueret , praedicando recta edificaret . Greg. Mag. Past . cura Admonit . 35. By preaching , and not by fighting . If you demaund in whom this prophecie was fulfilled , listen to your Doctor Capella : r r His verbis totum Hieremiae ministerium comprehend●tur , haec in Christo completa sunt , qui Idolatria & erroribus destructis , & Principe huius mundi foras eiecto , Ecclesiam suam aedificauit atque plantauit . ff. Andr. Capella Theol. Doctor in hunc locum . It was fulfilled in Christ , at whose comming Idols and false Oracles ceased , and the Prince of the World was cast out . Which Scripture lest the Pope might vnaduisedly applie to himselfe , holie Bernard doth forewarne him to * * Propheta , cùm art , [ Vt euellas , &c. ] Quid horum fastum sonat ? schemate quod á magis rust●cam ●udor●s labor spiritualis expressus est . Vt nos etiam sentiamus impositum esse nobis minist●…um , non dominium datum . Esto Propheta , sed nunquid plusquam Propheta ? si sapis , er is contentus mensurâ quam ubi mensus est Deus : nam quod amplius est , à malo est . Bernard . lib. 2. Consid. ad Eugen. Beware of insolent pride : for these wordes being applied vnto the Pastors of the church , betoken onely an industrio●s ministrie , but no predominant autoritie .

CHAP. VII .

The antiquitie of this pretended Papall power is examined from the Apostles times .

The Romish pretence .

a a Allen in his Admonition pag. 34. THe Priest of the new Testament in the Priesthood of Christ haue more authoritie than that of the law ouer Kinges to depose them .

The Answer .

This is not probable , except you can shew some footings either of Christ , or his blessed Apostles , or their holie successors in the purer periods of times . But

1. Christ vsed not this ciuill iurisdiction .

For b b Regia autoritas non erat Christo necessaria , neque vtilis , sed planè inutilis & supers●ua : nam finis aduentus eius in mundum erat redemptio humani generis , ad quem potestas regia necessaria non fuit , sed solùm spiritualis . Bell. lib. 5. de Pont. cap. 4. Princely autoritie ( as your chiefe Iesuite confesseth ) had beene supers●uou● in Christ , whose end was to worke the worke of Redemption of man , whereunto the onelie spirituall power was sufficient .

2. Peter and the other Apostles neuer challenged temporall authority .

This also is confessed : c c Carerius , Bellarmunus , Acosta , & alij . Apostles ( saith Carerius ) were subiect vnto the heathen Kings in all temporall respects : because Pontificall gouernment is only ouer Christians , within the church , but the Heathens are said by the Apostle to be without . 1. Cor. 6. Heereupon your Saunders doth conclude , that d d Quo tempore Principes erant Ethnici , Petius illorú Iudex non erat , sed è contra in omnibus causis ciuilibus , non minus quàm caeteri homines , illis subijciebatur : quia Pontifex non est Iudex nisi Christianorum . 1. Cor. 6. Peter receiued of Christ no power ouer Heathen Kings . He conceiteth a reason . e e Duplex fortitudinis potestas est , altera in faciendo res arduas animosè , altera in patiendo res aduersas constantèr : cùm igitur illa , quae in patiendo consistit , sit praestantior , hanc patiendi potestatem sibi ac suis Christus elegit , vt mundum in admirationem potentiae suae cohuerteret . Idcirco Apostoli & primi Apostolorum successores hoc mysterium non ignorantes , ab armis pro fide sumendis abstinuerunt . Sunderus quo supra . cap. 13. There is a double power , of fortitude , and Christian valour , ( saith he ) The one in suffering aduersitie constantly , the other in attempting and effecting hard matters couragiously : that power of suffering , as more excellent , Christ chose as fittest for himselfe , and his Apostles , and their successors for the gaining of the world to the faith , and therefore they did abstaine from armes and prescribe obedience . Quid ad me de his qui foras sunt iudicare ? Careriu , de potest . Pont. lib. 2. cap. 23. Idei● co Petrus in Neronem & Tyrannos Gentium nullam potestatem accepit . Sanderus de Clauib . Dauid . lib. 2. cap. 13.

The Romish insist .

f f Non Iohannes Baptista , inquiunt Aduersarij , non Christus , non Apostoli in Regem impium surgere , aut eum è medio tollere docuerunt : hoc leuissimum est , quali vero eadem mstituendae Ecclesiae ratio atque institutae credenda sit ; ac non potiùs prius plantari atque irrigari vineam , quàm incidi conuenit . Lib. de Abdicat . iusta Henric. Regis . pag. 278. As though there were not a difference of the condition of the church ; as of a vine , there is one time to plant and water it , an other to loppe and prune it .

The Answer .

As though the Church , which before time was planted & watred with the blood and deaths of holie Martyrs , ought now ( for that is this mans scope ) to be lopped in the cutting off of the heads of wicked Kings . Nay but if the patient suffering of the tyranny of Kings , be ( as your Sanders truely said ) the more excellent Christian power , than acting and working the death of Kings : and that therefore that power was practized of our Lord Christ , and bestowed on the Apostles for the confirmation of the glorious faith : pardon vs if we fall at Iesus feet , to choose the better part : especially knowing that * * 2. Tim. 4. To all those who suffer vniustly for iustice , there remaineth a crowne of iustice , which the iust Iudge will giue in that day of Reuelation .

CHAP. VIII .

The primitiue Successors of the Apostles for the space of two hundred yeares and long after , did acknowledge all Obedience temporall to all Emperours and Kings , whether heathen or baptized ; although Tyrants or Heretickes or Apostatates , yea euen then , when they wanted no force to resist .

The Romish pretence .

a a Bellar. supra . IN former ages Christians ( said your Bellarmine ) did not depose wicked Emperours , as Diocletian , Iulian , and such , because they wanted force . Which maketh some Catholicks ( said your Bannes ) now not resisting their Kings , excusable , because they want force : For it is commendable ( said your Frenchman ) to suffer when thou canst not resist . Otherwise Catholickes ( said your Creswell ) are bound to hazard their liues in this cause , assooue as they can make resistance . Whereunto might haue beeneadded your Cardinall Allen , b b Allen in his true and modest Defence of English Catholiks . Ancient Bishops ( saith he ) might haue excommunicated the Arian Emperours , and hauedefended themselues from them by force of armes ; but they did not , by reason of greater forces of their Persecutors .

The Answer .

This is the very Arche of all your rebellious building , which all your Iesuites haue erected , and whereupon our bastard English Cardinall doth insist in his booke intituled , A True and modest Defence for English Catholickes : which how false and shamelesse it is , I am now ready to shew vnto all true catholickes for their confirmation , and to the others for their conuersion .

First in generall .

For. c c A Christo passo per interuallum ducentorum annorum , nusquam legimus Chr●stianos contra Imperatores iam saeuientes in eos & plu●imos necantes , contra tempublicam quiequam esse molitos , etiam cum Christiani pares viribus & nu●…o fuerunt ; imò religionem suam anteferri alijs omnibus , seque ab eo Christianos dixerunt appellari , cuius sit hoc pijssimum dogma , vt Magistratibus pareant . Tolossanu● lib. 26. de Repub. cap. 7. § 10. For the space of two hundred yeares we cannot reade ( saith your learned Tolossanus ) of any christians resisting Emperours of other times , or in their most bloudy persecutions to haue raised any tumult in the Common-wealth ; no not then , when they were able both by equall number and power to match them : But heerin they thought their religion aduanced before all others , and gloried in this behalfe to be called Christians , who professed this as a most holy doctrine , namely , obedience to Magistrates .

True , the patient Christian did aduance Christian religion by suffering vnder Kings ; but the now pragmaticall Christian ( God grant I may be a false Prophet ) by acting and plotting Strategemes , in resisting Kings , will ruinate the holy faith .

To Tolossanus agreeth your Cunerus , saying , d d Cum Martyres no●… Testament● , propter multitudinem , facilè contra tyrannidem Persecutorum suorum conspirare potuissent , pro obedientia tamen & honore , quem iussi sunt Christiani regibus & sublimiori potestati deferre , maluerunt pati quám resistere , si quandò ●●gerevel euadere non poterant . De quibus perpulchre Augustinus lib. 2. contra Faustum , Vbi venit plenitudo tempo●is , iam demonstrandum erat esse aliam vitam pro qua debet hae● vita contemni ; promdè per quorum confessiones & mortes hoc Deo placuit attestari Martyres appellantur , quorum numerus tantus essloruit , vt si eos Christus vellet armare , atque adiuuare propugnantes , sicut Hebraeos Patres ad . unit , quae Gentes restiterent , quae regna non caederent ? C●nerus de O●●ic . Prin● . cap. 7. The Martyrs of those times , when they by reason of their multitude , might easily haue conspired against their persecuting Tyrants ; ( Hearken you conspirators and be ashamed ) yet for the honour of Christ by performing obedience to the higher power chose rather to suffer then resist . For , as saith S. Augustine , they would demonstrate their hope of the life to come , and , by their confessions and deaths , whereby they gaue witnesse to the truth of God , were called Martyrs , witnesses : whose number was so great , that if it had pleased Christ to arme them , and aid them , as he did the Hebrewes of old , what nation could haue resisted thew force ? Although these glorious Martyrs of the mother Church in their death , whereby they haue anouched that good and glorious profession of Christian faith , haue thereby also sealed the infallible truth of Christian obedience due to earthly Potentates : yet will we not be content with these two hundred yeares , but challenge the currant and successiue practise of 4000. more . We therefore come to

CHAP. IX .

The same duty of Subiection proued in the next 400. yeares .

FIrst Tertullian in his Apologie in defence of Christian loyalty . a a Absit vt virtute humana vindicetur Christiana secta , aut doleat pati in quo probatur : si enim hostes extraneos , non tantùm occultos , vindices agere vel . lemus , deesset vis numerorum aut copiarum ? externi sumus , & vestra omnia implemus vrbes , insulas , castella , municipia , conciliabula , castra ipsa , tribus , decurias , Senatum , forum ; sola vobis templa reliquimus : cui bello non idonei , non prompti suissemus , etiam impares copijs trucidamur , si non apud istam disciplinam magis occidi liceret quàm occidere ? Tertull. lib. Apolog. cap. 37. God forbid ( saith he ) that Christian professours should reuenge themselues with humane power , or feare that touch of persecution whereby they are tried : for if we would either seeke secret reuenge , or vse open hostility , can you imagine we could want sufficient force ? we are visibly knowen vnto you , and are interested in all your affaires , your Cities , Iles , Forts , Borrowes , Tents , Tribes , Decuries , Senate , Ma●kets are all full of Christians , except only your temples . Now what warre are not we ready and sit for , who being in power moe , yet do willingly suffer death , if by this profession it were not more lawfull to be killed , than to kill ? Heerein you who boast often of yours as great multitudes in England , as there were locusts in Aegypt , able to do mischiefe if you would , and professing also to be willing as soone as you are able : Compare but your God speed , with Tertullian his God forbid , and then you shall see that God cannot be said to be otherwise in your Popes Buls to kings , than he was in Aarons calfe , for in both there is a sinne of rebellion against Gods ordinance .

The second is Cyprian ; he likewise penneth an Apology , and directeth it to Demetrianus the Officer of the persecuting Emperour , answering in behalfe of all the Christians of his time . b b Laedere seruos Dei & Christi persecutionibus tuis desine , quos laesos diuina vltio defendit : indè enim est quod nemo nostrum , quandò apprehenditur , reluctatur ; nec se aduersus iniustam violentiam , quamuis nimius & copiosus sit noster populus , vlciscitur , &c. Cyprian . ad Demetr. §. 14. vt refert Pammel . pag. 328. col . 2. None of v●when he is apprehended doth resist , or reuenge himselfe of your vniust violence , although the number of our people be maruellous great : for our certaine confidence we haue in him that will take vengeance of all transgressours , doth confirme our patience . Whereby you are taught not to glory of patience , who ( if you had force ) would banish obedience .

The third is Athanasius , writing an Apologie for himselfe to Constantius an Arian Emperor , and therfore hereticall ; to free himselfe of a slanderous imputation , which was that he had suggested some matter to the Emperour Constance a Catholicke , thereby to kindle coales of dissention betwixt Brethren ; therefore he saith . c c Deum teste muoco in animam meam , & testis est frater tuus , me nunquam tui mentionem in malam partem esse loquutum ; non adeò insanus fui , neque oblitus sum mādau Domini , Non maledices Regivel in corde ●…o : sed obsequutus sum mandatis tuis , quae praeceperent vt ab Alexandria discederem . Athanas . in Apolog ad Constantium . I call God to record vpon my soule , and your Brother Constance could witnesse , that I neuer spake word of you in euill part ; I was not so madde as to forget the commandement of God , who saith ; Thou shall not speake euill of thy King , no not in thy hart : but did obey your command , when I had charge to depart from Alexandria . The summe is this . When he had power to stirre the Emperour Constance a true professor , against his brother Constantius an hereticke ; yet he made conscience , not to raise rebellion , but rather submitted himselfe to the violence of persecution . If your Pope had beene truly catechized in this Creed of Athanasius belonging to the truth of faithfull allegeance , he would not so oft haue raised King against King , as your selues confessed : And why then may not hee be that man prophecied of , * * Apoc. 6. 4. Sitting on a red horse , and hauing power ( permissiuely ) giuen vnto him , to take peace from the earth , and that they should kill one another ?

The fourth is Gregory Nazianzene , in his Oration against the Emperour Iulian , who ( the very hinge of this cause ) had beene a Christian , and did after Apostate and proue an Infidell , saith : d d In quos vestiûm populum , exaest●antem contra vos , insurgere sollicitauimus ? quibus vitae periculum attulimus ? &c. Nazianz. Orat. 2. in Iulianum . Against whom of you did wee euer raise any insurrection , or sedition among your people , though otherwise of themselues prone to rebellion : or whose death did wee euer conspire ? But , you , lately whose deaths haue you not conspired ?

The fifth is Ambrose . When the Emperour infected with the heresie of Arius , had sent magistrates to remoue Ambrose from his Bishopricke , and the people thronged to rescew him , e e Auxentius haeret . de Imperatore vult inuidiam cōmoucre , &c. quasi verò superiori anno , quando ad palatium suum petitus , cùm praesentibus Primatibus , ante consistotium tractaretur , cùm Imperator Basilicam vellet atripere , ego tunc aulae regalis contemplatione fractus sim , nonne nouerunt , quod vbi me cognouit populus palatium petisse , ita irruit vt vim eius ferre non possent ? nonnè tunc rogatus sum vt populum muto sermone mulcerem ? reuocaui populum , & tamen inuidiam non euasi , quam quidem inuidiam ego temperandam arbitror , non timendam . Ambros . Tom. 3. lib. 5. post Epist. 32. Oratio ad Auxent . Et Lachrymae meae arma mea sunt , alitèr nec debeo , nec possum resistere . Ibid. In such power ( saith Ambrose ) that the Officers could not resist their force ; I quieted the people , and yet could not auoid their malice . Then sure he did abhorre by raising sedition among the people , to prouoke magistrates to malice . The same Father vpon that penitentiall dumpe of holy Dauid , [ * * Psal. 51. 6. to thee only haue I sinned ▪ proueth that some f f Qui tenentur legibus audent suum negare peccatum , dedignantur rogare indulgentiam , quam petebat Dauid , qui nullis tenebatur legibus humanis , neque enim vllis ad poenam vocantur legibus tuti imperij potestate . Homini ergo non peccauit cui non tenebatur obnoxius . Ambros . Apolog Dauid . cap. 4. & cap. 10. Kings are not subiect to any penall law of man . And for S. Ambrose his actiue profession in this kind , it is confessed by your owne Doctor , saying that g g Potuit Ambrosius armis Ecclesiam suam tucri , & vim virepellere , nec ideò armis abstinuit , quod armis esset inferior , ab eo namque populus stabat , & ab eo pars maxima militum , ab eo ( quod caput est ) Christus Iesus omnesque coelites , vt Augustinus Epist. 166. Barelaius lib. 3. contra Monarchom . cap 〈◊〉 . Saint Ambrose when he was sufficiently armed both by power of people and souldiers , strengthened with the might of Christ , yet would not defend his Church with violence against the fury of the hereticall Emperor .

The sixth is Basill , h h Basilius Magnus , vt est in eius vita , Iuliano Caesarian Cappadociae ven●enti obuiam processit , & pandi ●i Ciuitatis portas , om●…que subditorum officia exhibere suasit , & vt odium conceptum in Christianos mitiga●et , supplex deprecatus , quanquam poterat se vallo ac muris sinè vllo periculo continere , &c. Barclaius qu● supra lib. 5. cap. 5. Who by reason of the strength of the forts , wherein he was , needed not to feare any danger ; yet suppliantly offered himselfe to Iulian , the Apostate : and caused the gates of the city to be opened vnto him , thereby to appease his wrath against Christians .

The seuenth is S. Augustine : who in his expositions of some proposition , doth , concerning this point , giue this instruction . i i Rom. 13 [ Necessitate subditi estote . ] Ad hoc valet vt intelligamus , quia necesse est propter hanc vitam subd●…os nos esse , non resistentes , Principilius , siquid auserre illi voluerint , in quo illis potestas data est in temporalibus rebus , tamen quoniam dixit , [ Necessitate subditi estote ] nè quis non integro animo & pura dilectione subditus non fieret , huiusmodi potestatibus addidit , dicens , [ Non solùm propter itam , sed etiam propter conscientiam : ] id est , non solùm ad iram eundendam , quod possit simultate fieri , sed vt tua conscientiâ certus sis , illius dilectione ●d facere , cui subditus ●…ussu Domini tui : Hoc est quod alio loco serus suadet , Obedite Dominis vestris etiam dyscolis , non ad oculum seruientes , tanquam homi●… placentes . August . lib. exposit. quorundam proposit . ad num. 74. Whereas the Apostle ( saith he ) exhorteth that we should not resist gouernors in temporall matters , he saith , [ It is necessary that we be subiect : ] and lest any might not performe this in loue , but as from constraint and necessity , he addeth ; [ Not for feare of wrath , but for conscience sake : ] that is , not dissemblingly , but dutifully in good conscience , and loue to him ( God ) who commandeth subiection : and , as in another place he exhorteth , Seruants * * Ephes. 6. & ●…ss . 3. Obey your hard and iniurious masters ; but not with ey-seruice , as only pleasing men , but God . Therefore you must not plead Your most humble subiect aboue ground , and from the concaue and vautes of the earth seeke how to humble your soueraigne . Forey seruice and hart-seruice do distinguish a Christian from a Pagan , according to that of Arnobius , k k Vos Eth●…ios ●…entes , nos ●…ro consci●…um . Ar●…b . contra Gentes . lib. 8. You Pagans do feare onely the outward sight of men ; we only the inward conscience of our mind .

The eight is Pope Leo , writing to a true Catholicke Emperour . l l Debes Imperator ●…èr aduertere Regiam potestatem tibi non sol●m ad mundi regimen , sed , maximè ad Ecclesiae praesidium esse collatam . Epist. 75. ad I●on . August . You may not be ignorant ( saith he ) that your Princely power is giuen vnto you not only in worldly regiment , but also ( Spirituall ) for the preseruation of the Church . As if hee had said , Not only in causes temporall , but also inspirituall , so far as it belongeth to outward preseruation , not to the personall administration of them : And this is the substance of our English oath ; and further neither do our Kings of England challenge , nor subiects condiscend vnto . We are not yet passed the lists of 500. yeares .

The last is Pope Gregory in his Epistle to Mauritius , a right Christian Emperour . m m Ad hoc , potestas super omnes homines dominorum meorum pietati ●…elitùs data est , vt qui boni sunt , adiuuentur , & coelorum via largius pateat , vt terrestre regnum coelesti regno famuletur ad haec ecceper me seruum vltimum & vestrum . Lib. 2. Epist. cap. 100. Rursus . To this end ( saith he ) is power ouer all persons giuen from heauen vnto my Lord , that good men may be helped in the way to the kingdome of heauen . And again , n n In serenissimis iussionibus suis Dominorum pietas , dùm me in quibusdam redarguere studuit , parcendo mihi minimè pepercit : nam in eis vrbanae simplicitatis vocabulo me fatuum appellat ; Sacerdotibus autem non ex terrena potestate Dominus noster citiùs indignetur , sed excellenti consideratione propter cum cuius serui sunt , eis ita dominetur , vt debitam reuerentiam impendat . Idem . Epist. 75. In those gratious commands of your Highnesse , your grace in sparing me did not spare mee one whit , but was pleased to call me ( whereby is signified a ciuill simplicity ) foole . But let not my Lord from his earthly preeminence too hastily disdaine the Priests of God ; but in his princely wisedome , for his cause whose seruants they be , so rule ouer them , that he denie them not due reuerence . Heerein we finde another clause of the forme of our English oath , Power ouer all persons , euen the Pope himselfe yeelding that , which is not due but only to a Superiour rule : and requiring that which may be yeelded to an inferiour , * * 1. Pet. 3. 4. Giuing honour to the woman , as to the weaker vessell . Reuerence , or curteous respect . o o Hoc Gregorius Magnus ingenuè agnoscebat , Imperatoribus ( inquit ) concessum est domiminari Sacerdotibus . Espencaeus Comm. in Tit. 3. Digress . 10. For it is without doubt ( saith your Bishop Espencaeus ) that Gregorie did acknowledge a soueraigntie in Emperours ouer Priests . We haue not yet passed the period of 600. yeares : now therefore

CHAP. X.

We descend vnto the ages following of foure centuries more : which may make vp a complete thousand yeres .

The Romish Pretence .

p p Tunc Con●… genera●… fi●●ant n● sine Imperatorum sumptibus ; & ●o tempore Pontifex subijci● bat se Imperatoribus in temporalibus ; & ideò non poterant inuito Imperatore aliquid agere : id●ircò Pontifex supplicabat Imperatori , vt iuberet conuocari Synodum . At post illa tempora omnes causae mutatae sunt , quia Pontifex , qui est caput in spiritualibus , non est subiectus in temporalibus . Bellarm. lib. 1. de Conc. cap. 13. §. Habemus ergo . ANcient generall Councels were gathered not without the cost of ( good and Christian ones ) Emperours , and were made by their consents : for in those d●ues the Pope did make supplication to the Emperour , that by his authority he would gather Synods . But after those times all causes were changed , because the Pope , who is head in spirituall matters , cannot be subiect in temporall .

Who would thinke this man could be a Papist , much lesse a Iesuit , how much lesse a Cardinall , who thus disableth the title of the Pope , granting to vs in these words , [ After these times ( that is , after 600. yeres ) the truth of purer Antiquity challenging Popes to be subiect vnto Christian Emperours ? And yet , who but a Papist would ( as it were in despite of Antiquity ) defend the degenerate State , saying , After those times Popes might not be subiect in temporall matters ? As if he should haue said ; Thou gratious fauour of ancient Christian Emperours , thou sound iudgement of ancient reuerend Fathers , thou deuout subiection of ancient holy Popes ; in summe , thou ancient purity , and pure Antiquity adiew . But we may not so bastardly reiect the depositum and doctrine of humble subiection , which we haue receiued from our Fathers of the first 600. yeares : and not so only , but which ( as your Bercklay witnesseth ) the vniuersall Christian world embraced q q Sed id grauissimo argumento esse debet , quòd nemo sanctorum Patrum , vel Scriptor alioqui Orthodoxus per totos mille annos & amplius , licet Ecclesia tunc omnibus flo●eret copijs , & impiorum Principum & Tyrannorum magnus esset numerus , tale quid vnquam vel verbo vel scripto doc●…sse legitur . Nec tamen ab autoritate negatiua tantùm argumentamur , sed proponimus Ambrosij , Hieronymi , Augustini , Gregorij , & aliorum eius aeui tempora , in quibus satis plantatam & rigatam Ecclesiam esse nouimus . Barel . lib. 6. aduers Monarch . cap. 26. With common consent for a full thousand yeares . Which is further confessed by others in the Chapters following .

CHAP. XI .

We further challenge the consent of successiue Antiquity in the currant of more than 1000. yeares after Christ , wherein the Papallpretended Iurisdiction ouer Kings , hath beene euidently controwled .

The Romish Pretence .

a a Bellar. supra . Carerius lib. 2. de potest . Rom. Pont. cap. 21. The Apology of the English Catholiks cap. 5 WE haue many examples of Emperours deposed by Popes , as Leo , Fredericke , Henry 1. Freder . 2. Otho 1. Lewis 3. Lewis 4. Henry 4. who was deposed by Gregory the 7.

The Answer .

This argument , The Popes did depose them from their temporall authority , Ergo , He had authority to depose them , will iustifie all Pyrates , and theeues in their spoiles ; all Tyrants in their vsurpations ; and will impeach this authority of the Pope , which you would heereby defend . For ( as your Cardinall doth confesse ) b b Bellarm quo supra . Many Emperours haue deposed many Popes . Therefore from the act done to conclude a right of doing is no good argument . Let vs therefore examine the worke by the square , and not the square by the worke ; and by the law of doing , trie the lawfulnesse of the thing done . And first , beyond the antiquity of a thousand yeares granted , we find that the first who euer violently deposed an Emperour , is the last of them whom you cite for authority of deposing them . For c c Lego & relego Regum & Imperatorum res gestas , & nusquam inuenio quemquam illorum antè hunc Henricum Imperatorem , quem Gregorius 7. aliás Hildebrandus deposuit , à Summo Pontifice priuatum . Otto Frisingens . lib. 6. Chron. cap. 35. vt refert Tolossanus lib. 26. de R●pub . cap. 5. I reade and reade ( saith your Otto Frisingensis ) and I find that Pope Gregory the 7. called Hildebrand , ( in the yeare 1060. ) was the first Pope that euer depriued an Emperour of his regiment . d d Hildebrandus ●uit , qui nouello schismate regnum & sacerdotium scindens , primus sacerdotalem lancem contra diadema eleuans ; se , s●o● ; exemplo Pontifices alios contra Principes & excommunicatos gladio accinxit . Claud. Espen● . Epise. C●mm . in Tim. lib. 2. digress . pag. 275. He was the first Pope ( saith your bishop Espencaeus ) who by making a new rent betwixt Kingdome and Popedome did raise force against the Emperiall diademe , arming himselfe & by his example excited other Popes against Princes excommunicate . An act new , you see ; and that it is also naught will appeare by the Actor . e e Gregorius septimus , qu● ipsum omnes Italiae Episcopi iampridem excommunicassent , quia sedem Apostolicam per Simoniacam haeresin occupasset , & alijs capitalibus c●iminibus polluisset ; Regem autem secus ac decuit egisse , quòd homini haeretico & probris omnibus infamato maiestatem regiam submiserit . Scaffneburg . In Anno 1077. Pope Greg. the 7. ( saith your Chronographer ) was excommunicate of the Bishops of Italy , for that he had defamed the Apostolike See by Simony and other Capitall crimes .

There is an Instance giuen in the Donation of Constantine , which proueth the Popes to haue beene notable forgerers . The Romish Pretence .

f f Bonifacius Papa ad Philippum Franciae Regem ita scripsit : Noueris te in spiritualibus & temporalibus nobis subesse ; & oppositum sentientes haereticos esse reputamus , & declaramus . Carer . lib. 1. de Pont. potest . cap. 3. Boniface Bishop of Rome , ( so saith Carerius ) writ to Philip King of France : to let him vnderstand that Philip ought to acknowledge vnto him both spirituall and temporall subiection , and whosoeuer shall thinke otherwise ( saith Boniface ) we iudge and declare him an Hereticke .

The Answer .

May it be lawfull for vs to aske you by what law this temporall is assumed ? g g Constantini donatio saus contra haereticos à nostris defensa & probata est . Sanderus lib. 4. de Clauib . Dauid . cap. 4. There is extant the Donation of Constantine ( saith Sanders ) sufficiently defended against all Heretickes . Then belike this iurisdiction was from man and not from God . h h Quam Catholici veram esse fatentur : quae quidem potiùs redditio dici debet , quia Constantinus reddidit Christi Vicario , quod tyrannicam autoritate diu det●●uerat , vt dicamus cum Tu●… ceremata , De Eccle. lib. 2. cap. 41. Pontificem Romanum habere dominium temporale immediatè à Deo , declaratiuè à Concilijs , à Constantino promulgaticè . Carerius lib. 2. de Pont. cap. 21. Not so ( saith Carerius ) for it was rather a restitution than a Donation , because he did but returne it , being a Christian , which he had receiued by Tyrannicall vsurpation , being an Heathen : therefore according to the iudgement of Turrecremata , did not now so much giue it as publish it to be due to the Pope . What was contained in this schedule ? i i In ipsa Donationis pagina contulit in Pontisicem Regnum S. ciliae , Neopolitanum , Italiae , Galliae , Hispaniae , Germaniae , ●ritannae , totum deniquè occidentem . Valla Declam . de Donat. Constant . And this is expresly challenged in the forme of the pretended donation . There was heerin specified ( saith your Valla , and so is the tenor of the Donation ) a conueiance of the kingdome of Sicily , Naples , all Italy , France , Spaine , the Countries of the Germans , and Britans , and all the Western part of the world . This is a goodly gift , if it be good : but I heare Luther say , k k Ingens est hoc mendacium , quod tamen reperitur Dist. 96. &c. Luther . Tract . aduers . Pa●… . It is a large lie . But you had rather heare your Doctors speake , although they may seem partiall , because yours . l l Antiqui probatae fidei Autores , qui omnia gesta Constantini scripserunt diligentissimè , eius Donationis mentionem nullam faciunt . Canus loc. theol . lib. 1. cap. 5. The most ancient Historians , authors of best credit ( saith your Canus ) and such as purposely , and most diligently recorded the acts of Constantine , and yet make no mention of any such Donation : m m Quam Pius secundus Pontifex , vt adulterinam & subdititiam refellit ; inuehiture ; contra miseros ( vt eius verbo vtar ) Legistas , qui tantùm sudant disputando a●…d valuerit , quod nullo vnquam tempore fuit . Balbus de coronat . ad Carol. 5. Imperatorem . Which Pius the second Pope of Rome , did ( as saith your bishop Balbus ) * * Infra cap. 12. in Ballus test . & cap. 13. by Popish Lawyers . proue to be a slatte counterfet . So that now your Popes temporall hold should be forfetted , because it doth appeare that your Pastor , in this challenge , is a meere imposter . The Donation is called palea , and therefore as light chaffe I passe this ouer . What is your next claime ?

CHAP. XII .

Popish Arguments from Reason . The first , wherein they ( failing to prooue the temporall dominion of the Pope by succession ) endeuour to prooue it from successe .

The Romish Pretence .

a a Romanos Pontifices vrbis Romae non solùm possessionem , verùm etiam dominium iamdiù adeptos esse nemo est qui nesciat : stupenda quidem res , & supra quam dici possit admiranda ; vt cum potentissimi quique Imperatores per aliquot secula omnem suam vim in ex●erminandis ex v●be Roma Pontificibus Romanis srustrà explicàssent , nunc è contrario Pontifices Romani absque vlla vi Romano : Imperatores ex arce imperi● semouerunt , palatijs Caesarum atque adeò totâ vrbe in suam proprietatem conuersa . Digitus Dei est hic . Sander . lib. 4. de Clau●b . Daui● . cap. 4. THe Popes of Rome haue long since got not only possession but also dominion of the city of Rome : a matter to be wondred at , to see how after that the Emperours had many times sought to root out the Popes of Rome by force , the Popes haue b Id quod diuina prouidentia factum est . Bellar. lib. 1. de Conc. cap. 13. §. Quarta . &c. contrarily remoued the Emperours out of Rome , the chiefe towne of their Empire ; and the property of Caesars pallaces and the city of Rome is without force come vnto the Pope . This ( saith Sanders ) is the singer of God : This ( saith Bellarmine ) is Gods prouidence .

The Answer .

As though that which is without force might not be by * * Proued . Vide infra . craft ; or that they who pretend a * * Vide supra . cap. 11. forged donation , of the Emperour Constantine , ( as your own Pope called it before he was Pope ) would want art to delude his Successours . It it not impossible for Pyrats to build a shippe , for spoile , and call it Gods prouidence . Which wil so much rather appeare in this , by how much more you labour to obscure it : for c c Ex Pontificibus primus Bonifacius nonus Anno Domini 1400 vrbis Romae sibi dominatum vindicare tentauit . Balbus Episc. detoronat . §. Post mortem . Boniface the 9. ( as your owne Balbus noteth ) was the first who did assay to challenge there giment of Rome to himselfe , which was in the yeare of Christ 1400. And this was but a forged challenge too , as is euident , because d d Carolus Quintus ex Imperatoribus Christianis primus vrbem Romam vnà cum oppidis vndique circum sedi Apostolicae habendam sumendamque donauit . Ibid. §. Munificentia . Emperour Charles the fift , ( about the yeare 1550. ) was the first that bestowed the city of Rome and the Territories adioining vpon the Pope .

CHAP. XIII .

Their second Reason from a pretended right of Confirmation of Emperours , to conclude a power of abrogation and deposing .

a a Imperator in electione sua à Papa approbatur & confirmatur , & tanquam minister summi Pontificis gladium ad Pontificis nutum exercens : Ergo est quod ex nutu Pontificis reprobatur & deponitur . Molina . Ies. Tract. 2. de Iust●… . disp. 29. ad 2. THe Emperour in his election is confirmed by the Pope , and as the Popes minister is to vse the sword at his command , and at his command be is deposed . Proue this . b b Hoc in eoru●… coronatione & consecratione fidelitatisque praestito iuramento apparet . Carerius lib. 2. de Potest . Pont. cap. 17. This is apparent by the oath that he taketh at his coronation . Proue this . c c Propterea in D. Cap. Venerabilem , de elect . Papa loquens in persona sua , inquit ; Ius & autoritas examinandi personam electam in Regem , & promouere ad imperium ad nos spectat , qui eum vngimus & consecramus . Carerius ibid. cap. 18. The Pope himselfe saith of himselfe , that the right and authority of examining the person elected ( saith he ) to be a King or Emperour belongeth to vs , who doe anoint and consecrate him . What will you prooue by this ? d d Et cum vacat potestas temporalis , in Administratione Papa succedit : sic enim va . cante imperio concludit Innoc. Abb. & Felin . & est casus Clem. Past . in sin . de re Ind. In euery vacancie of temporall States the Pope is Successour in the gouernment . What yet more ? e e Quinimò de causa vel dubio aliquo inter Imperatorem & Pontificem , Papa erit Iudex competens ; imò de causa vel dubio inter Papam & Imperatorem cognoscat Papa . Clement . Rom. §. Caeterùm de iur●iurand . Carer . lib. 2. de Potest Rom. cap. 16. That when there ariseth any doubt betwixt the Emperour and a Prince , the Pope is a competent Iudge ; yea , when there is a cause or doubt betwixt the Pope and Emperour , the Pope himselfe is Iudge .

The Answer .

You know the fable : If the wolfe may iudge the sheep in the cause of troubling the water , the wolfe wil be the guilty , but the sheepe shal be the condemned . But that you say [ The Emperour is not without the approbation of the Pope , ] is false : And your Consequents , [ Ergo the Pope doth succeed in vacancy ; Ergo he may depose ] are both friuolous and preiudicious to your owne cause . To the Antecedent : your Bishop Lupoldus hath satisfied long sithence , saying : f f Electus in Regem aut Imperatorem post electionem Principum concordem , vel ex maiore parte ipsorum de se factam , à Papa vel ab Ecclesia Romana nominationem vel personae approbationem petere & recipere non tenetur . Lupoldus Epise. Bubenburg . lib. de Iure Regni & Imperij Rom. cap. 8. in initio . That hee that is chosen Emperour by the consent of the greater part of Electours , needeth not either seeke or receiue any approbation of the Pope . This doth your other learned bishop g g Rationes , quibus euincitur ex sola electione aliquem verum & legitimum Imperatorem nec confirmatione Pontificis indigere , probatur ex constitutione Ludouici Baiuari Imperato : is de Imperij iuribus & excellentia : qui legem sanciuit , promulgauitque , in qua haec ad verbum habentur [ Quia nonnulli auaritiae & ambitionis coecitate ducti , diuertentes à tramite recti sensus in quaedam praua commenta , & assertiones detestabiles prorumpant , FALLACITER asserentes Imperialem potestatem esse à Papa , electumque in Imperatorem non esse verum Imperatorem , nec Regem , nisi priùs per Papam confirmetur , approbetur , coronetur : per huiusmodi praua dogmata Serpens antiquus SEDITIONES procurat . Ideò ad tantum malum eui . tandum de consilio & CONSENSV ELECTORVM & aliorum P●…ncipum Impe●… declaramus , IMPERIALE●… dignitatem & potestatem à SOLO DEO pendere ; nec postquam electio si● Pontificis consensu indigere qui●unque contra hoc decretum aliquod ASS●●ERE aut asserentibus consentire praesumpserint , eos omnibus fe●…dis & priuilegi●s , quae ab imperio detin●t , PRIVAMVS & ipso ●ure & facto decernimus esse p●…tos . Iusuper eos CRIMEN LA●SAE MAIESTATIS incurrisse , & poe●…s omnibus impositis cumen laesae maiestaus committentibus subracere . H●c omnia 〈◊〉 us Ep●sc . G●…ce●s lib. de Coronat . ad C●…r●…m 5. Imperat § Rationes &c. & Constitutio . &c. Balbus by many arguments determine , and to this end produceth A publicke decree of the Emperour Lodouicke , by the consent of all the Electours : Ad ●…ging All such as deny the imperiali dignity to depend only of God , as not needing the Popes confirmation , to be seditious , and presently they that deny it , and whosoeuer consenteth vnto th●… , to be reputed as guilty of high Treason , and to incurre all the p●…s due to so great a guilt We proceed now to your consequent : and first shew the noueltie of your claime . h h Veruntamen qu●cunque ratione ad Pontificatum pateret ingress●s , nemo Apostoli●ae cymbae gubernacula capescebat nisi priùs Imperatoris autoritas intercessisser , vt cap. Adrianus in Syn. 30. Dist. Mos e●…m apud veteres inu●l●erat longo annorum decursu obseruatus , vt Cleritus populusque Romanus Pontificem eligeret ; quo designato in ▪ Imperatoris manu erat eius electionem ratam initamque habere . Cap. Agatho . Dist. 63. 〈◊〉 vt collubitum fuerat , aut eum admittere approbareque , aut 〈◊〉 reiecto atque exploso alium subrogare : Durauitque is mos vsque ad Adrianum , anno salutis 815 ; qui tanti a●…mi fuit , vt initio Pontificatus su● , ad senatum populumque Romanum retulerit , ne●… creando Pontifice Imperatoris autoritas expectaretur , vtque libera essent cleri populi● ; Romara suffragia . Sed huic edicto minimè fuit obtemperatum , permansitque VETVS illa consu●tudo Pontificis 〈…〉 Imperatore confirmand● , vse ne ad Gregor. 9. qu● praefuit Pontificatui anno Christi 1072. quem Gregor. ( vt a●… Pla●… ) in Pontificem Romanum confirmauit , vt tunc tempo is mos erat . NVNC AVTEM NOVA RERVM FACIES fortuna immurata est 〈◊〉 contra●… eflante : C●… legum interpretes hanc ( vt put●●t ) Imperij calamitatem deplora●e non desinunt , & causantur ASIV potius DOLOQVE , quam ex aequo bonoque tam certa diuturna●ue 〈◊〉 Caesares amisisle ex longa Impe●●j vacatione ; non enim potentià prudentia●u . Summorum Pontificum tantum decoris esle ademptum . Haec ille , qui mutationem non 〈◊〉 , ●…usa● tripl●… asserit . Vel Imperatores priuile ▪ ●…te à se abdi●…sse , vel ex abusu perdidisse , vel ad extremum cessante causà p●…g●… , è v●…o p●… euanuisle . Haec , inquam , Balbus Episc. lib. de Coronat . ad C●r●…nt 5. Imperatorem . §. Quomodò olim . For ( as the same your author witnesseth ) It was an ancient custome and of long continuance , and till Adrian the Pope in the yeare of Christ 815. without contradiction , that the Emperour did confirme the election of the Pope , that none could be Pope without the approbation of the Emperour : which custome after the death of Adrian was inforce , till Pope Gregory the 9. which was in the yeare 1072. But now we see a new and contrary countenance of the state of Christendome , which the Lawiers deplore as miserable , and complaine that the Emperour lost his priuiledge by cosenage and deceit . &c. How it was we leaue the case to be disputed among your Romists : that heere is a change of Antiquity it is not denied , either by your Balbus , or i i Aliquando saecularis Principis , vt Imperatores & alij , Pontificem eligebant , vt patet Cap. Adrianus . & cap. Agatho . Quae priuilegia durabant vsque ad tempora Adriani Secundi . Carerius lib. 1. de potest . Pont. cap. 17. Carerius , or any other . Hence we argue .

That if power of approbation of the election of the Emperour do conferre a temporall authority Emperiall vpon the Pope , then when the Pope was confirmed by Emperours there was in the Emperour a spirituall authority ouer the Pope : if you will deny our latter consequent , then you teach vs to deny your former .

CHAP. XIIII .

Their third Argument from a presumed danger .

The Romish Pretence .

a a The Apologie and Defence of the English Catholicks . cap. 5. EXcept there were a way of deposing Apostate Princes , God had not prouided sufficiently for his Church .

The Answer .

This obiection is in your b b Non videretur Dominus satis discretus fuisse , vt cùm reuerentia eius dicam , Extrauag . Com de Maior . & Obedient . §. Vnam sanctam . Extrauagants , and so it may be called , because it rangeth Extra without the bonds of Gods ordinance , beside the presidence of primitiue example , beyond the compasse of your owne allowance .

First from Gods ordinance . c c An igitur , inquiunt , nunquam Principibus resistere liceat ? huic quaestioni non corrupto & temerario carnis nostrae iudicio , cui frequentèr recta sunt , quae coram Deo stultissima & impia reputantur ; sed ea diu nis literis , quae nemini blandiuntur , respondendum esse puto . Nam vtcunque verisimilitèr nobis humanitùs ratiocinari videmur , naturali iure nobis licitum esse nos nostraque defendere : Diuina tamen Lexid contra sublimiorem potestatem armis fierivetat : quemadmodum Christus Dominus Petro volenti Dominum defendere , dixit [ Conuerte gladium tuum in vaginam tuam , omnes enim qui gladium acceperint gladio peribunt ] Non enim subditi contra Potestatem , sed potestas contra subditos gladium diuinitùs accepit . Cunerus lib. de Offic. Princ. cap. 7. For by the word of God ( as your Cunerus diuinely reasoneth ) which is not partiall , and not by the selfe-pleasing fancy of sensuall affection must this question bee determined . Though therefore it may seeme to vs a decree of nature for euery one to defend himselfe and the things he doth enioy ; yet the law of God doth forbid to doe this by taking armes against the higher powers : as our L. Christ taught his Disciple now about to defend his Master , [ Put vp thy sword , for he that smiteth with the sword , shall perish with the sword . ] Because the sword is not put into the hands of Subiects against their Kings , but into the hands of Kings against Subiects . Accordingly S. Augustine doth conclude . d d Omnes gladio diuim iudicij pe●ituti sunt , qui contra Principis voluntatem glad●… assumunt : ideoque simplicitèr & generatim ab Apostolo dictu est , [ Qiu potestan resistit , Dei ordinatio●… resistit ; qui autem resistunt , ipsi sibi damnauonem acquirunt . ] ●t alibi . Those who beare the sword ( saith he ) against rulers , must perish : therefore the Apostle speak * * Non defendentes vosmet , charissimi , sed date locum irae , scriptum est enim , Mihi vindicta & ego retribuam , dicit Dominus : Noli vinci à malo , sed vince bono malum . Aug. lib. 2. cont. Fausium . cap. 73. th generally , [ * * Rom. 13. He that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God . ] And againe [ * * Rom. 11. not defending your selues , ( my Dearest ) but giue place to wrath ( of the Gouernour ) for it is written , vengeance is mine , ( therefore no reuenging power ouer Kings ) and I will reuenge , saith the Lord : be not ouercome of euill , but ouercome euill with good . ]

The second is the consideration of examples of the primitiue Church , when for the space of 300. yeares , it was in grieuous persecution : where ( as S. Paul speaketh ) the faithfull * * Rom. 12. 19. fought with beasts after the manner of men : namely , ( as some doe allegorize ) with men as sauage as beasts ; and there was found no power on earth to restraine that earthly power . Was therefore God awanting to his Church ? God forbid . Nay rather he was not awanting , for it is written , * * 1. Cor. 15. 32. Vertue is perfected in infirmity . And againe , * * 2. Cor. 12. 9. As gold is purgedin the fire , So by affliction &c. Because , * * 2. Cor. 22. When the outward man suffereth the inward man is renued : And * * 2. Cor. 12. When I am weake , then am I strong . As therefore the wisedome of the Artist is then present with the gold , when he is refining it ; the Physician with his Patient when he woundeth to cure him : So whensoeuer the three faithfull be in the fiery furnace * * Dan. 3. 25. Behold a fourth , that is , a diuine succourer either by the inward miracle of comfort in patience , or the outward of deliuerance .

The third is the view of your owne Popish Principles , which is this : e e Pontisex non potest vllo modo ●udicari in terris ab vllo Principe saeculari , siuè Ecclesiastico , neque ab omnibus simul in Concilio congregatis . Bellar lib. 2. de Rom. Pontif. cap. 26. That the Pope ( saith Bellarmine ) may not be iudged of any person vpon earth , whether secular or Ecclesiasticall , no not of a generall councell : f f Etsi Papa contra vniuersalem Ecclesiae statum aliquid ageret , non possit tamen à Concilio depo●i . Carerius lib. 1. de potest . Pont cap. 23. num. 12. Nether may be ( saith your Carerius ) be deposed , though he should do something contrary to the vniuersall state of the Church , g g Quaeres quid si●… se Pontifex Canones legesque ●…ura negligat , delicta im●… relinquat , innocentes opprimat , res Ecclesiae dissi e● ▪ Regu● . iura pe●…tat ? Respondeo Rom. Pontificem nulli Princi●um in terris ●…e , à nullo nisi à Deo iud●… : pro eo orandum &c. A●… . Ies. Instit. lib. 5. cap. 14. E●… Autores sibi Suffragantes plurimos adducit . As for example ( saith your Azorius ) though hee should neglect the Canons of the Church , spare offenders , oppresse Innocents , make a pray of the goods of the Church , and violate the lawes of Kings : yet is he not to be iudged of any but God . h h Dist. 40. Si Papa offecit tibi . & alus omnibus nihilo ●…us innumerabiles populos cat●…m secu●…n du●… man●…●o Gehennae , huius culpas redarguere praesumet nemo mortalium . ●…ritur in Calend. Martyrum . Not though ( saith your Pope himselfe , one placed in the Calends of your Martyrs ) hee should cary many people with himselfe to hell : yet no mortall creature may presume to say , why do you so ? Heere is a desperate disease , wherein you will not suffer so much as practise of Phlebotomy , much lesse an incision or exustion . And yet in like case against the secular state obiect Gods prouidence : said I like ? O no , farre different !

The difference of Kings and Popes in this point .

The Papall power will be thought spirituall ; and thus being euill , may be the baine of soules , the power of Princes is but corporall , * * Matth. 20. 28 [ Therefore ●●are them not ] because they can goe no further then the body . Now the bodilie tyrannie worketh in the godly , patience , patience supports martyrdome , martyrdome gaineth a crowne of life : Therefore this euill with patience may happily be indured ; but the spirituall tyranny doth captiuate the inward soule , the sou●…c commands the senses , these practise sinne , and the stipend of sinne is death , euen the euerliuing death of hell . Therefore heere is need ( according to Gods prouidence ) of power to depose so desperate a spirituall euill , whereof it is written : * * Matth. 5. 13. If the salt want his salinesse , it is good for nothing , but to to be cast vpon the Dunghill . Marke then concerning the spirituall that God hath ordeined , Eijciatur foras , cast out : concerning the temporall , * * Rom. 1● . Resist not the powers .

CHAP. XV.

The Arguments of Protestants against the pretended Papall power ouer Kings from 1. Scripture , 2. Fathers , 3. Reasons .

1. Scriptures . In the Old Testament .

IT is granted vs for the old Testament that * * Supra cap. 1. & 3. & 5. Priests were subiect to their Kings ; and the necessity of due subiection to wicked Kings , we haue exemplified in * * Supra cap. 4. Dauid the mirror of all perfect loyalty : which case is made more liuely by the Answer to the example of * * Supra cap. 5. Eliah .

Scriptures . In the New Testament . Of many one shall suffice .

Rom. 13. * * Rom. 13. 1. [ Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers : ] If you doubt what power this is to whom subiection is due ; looke what he hath in his hand , * * vers. 4. He beareth not the sword for naught : It is a sword therefore power temporall , if from whom this is due , it appeareth , * * vers. 1. Euery soule be subiect , all other conditions of reasonable men : If why ? this is expressed , * * vers. 1. For the power is ordained of God . The point in question is concerning the Subiect : The Romish seeke two enasions to free their Pope from subiection .

The Romish pretence .

a a Obijciunt Protestantes ex hoc loco , concludunt etiam Pontifices Regibus subiectos esse debere . Respondeo negando consequ●… , quia alia est ratio Principum infidelium , alia Christianorum , &c. Costerus Ies. Euchirid . Tract . de summo Pont. Obiect . 11. From this place the Protestants conclude , that therefore the Pope ought to be subiect : But I deny their consequent , for the Apòstle writeth of subiection to Heathen Emperours , to whom euery Christian was to submit themselues : But now that Emperours be Christians , they ought to acknowledge a superiour power in the spirituall Pastor the Pope .

The Replie .

This your solution doth destroy a generall maxime , confessed of all diuines , to wit , that ( as your Acosta confesseth ) b b Omnes fatentur , & est persecertu , etiamsi Barbari conuertantur ad Christum , non tamen re●um suarum iure excide●e . Acosta les . lib. 3. de Inforum salate . cap. 7. Insidels conuerted to Christian faith , do not therefore lose their former temporall right . Which we haue already prooued by your owne confessions , and more then ten circles of Antiquity . We argue further now from this knowen principle ; Princes by conuersion to the Gospell lose no temporall right , which they had before their conuersion : But in the state of Infidelitie we neuer reade that they could be deposed by their Pagan Priests . Ergo , this their prerogatiue may not be impaired by their obedience vnto the Gospell : nay , it is rather confirmed thereby , euen in this text , especially in three degrees .

First , it teacheth greater Christian reuerence , because in the Prince a Christian man doth not behold only man , but the hand of God , * * Rom. 13. 4. He is the Minister of God . Secondly , from Christian feare : For Pagans , as hirelings , onely performed obedience propteriram , for feare of the temporall Sword ; which man ( because it is in the hand of man ) might auoid by many meanes : But Christians , [ * * Rom. 13. 2 He that resisteth purchaseth damnation , ] are dutifull for feare of the eternall wrath of the iust omnipotent God . Thirdly , from Christian confidence , For Pagans , assoone as the King doth tyrannize , do rebel , as though freedome corporall were their speciall good : but Christians * * Rom. 13. 3. [ Wil t thou not feare the power ? doe good and thou shalt haue praise of God in suffering outward euill for well doing are confirmed in the hope of an euerlasting good . Fourthly , from the bond of Christian loue , for Pagans by their Princes commands are naturally inclined to discontent and hate : but Christians [ * * vers. 8. Loue is the fulfilling of the law ] are by the law of Loue made perfect to obey the iust lawes of men . If therefore Christians would , as they ought , be subiect to the law of Christ , I suppose there is no Pagan Prince ( if perswaded of this doctrine of Christ ) but would more easily be a Christian .

Their second Euasion . The Romish Pretence .

c c Apostolus hoc in loco non restring● personam ad Principem saeculare , sed d●omn . potestate loquitur tàm spirituali quàm seculari : ita vt ex hac sententia deduci Papam subditum esse Regi , aut Regem Papae &c. Bellarm. lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 29. §. Argumentum tertium . The Apostle doth not restraine his speech to any kind of superiour power , but speaketh generally of [ powers that be : ] signifying aswell the spirituall power , as the temporall . Therefore Protestants may not conclude heereupon , that the Pope ought to be subiect vnto temporall Kings .

The Answer .

If we suffer the spirit of God to be our Iudge the cause is plaine , [ He beareth not the sword in vaine , ] he meaneth the temporall Gouernour : If we require witnesse of this truth from all antiquity , behold d d Apostolus docet omnes credentes mundi potestaubus esse subiectos : [ Omnis anima , ] Id est ( Chrysostomus ait ) siuè Propheta , fiuè Apostolus , fiuè Episcopus , subditus sit : sequitur Chrysostomum Euthymius , Theod. The●● hylact . Oecumen . & qui non Graeci ? Idem Gregorius Magnus agnoseebat . & Bernardus ad Episcopum Senonensem idem colligit , [ Omnis anima ] tum vestra , inquit , quis vos excipit ? si quis tentat excipere , tentat decipere . Espentans Epis. Comm. in 1. Tim. D●gress . lib. 2. S. Chrysostome ( saith your own Bishop , and that truly ) doth vnderstand by ( euery soule ) that euery Apostle , euery Prophet , and euery Bishop ought to be subiect : To whom doe other ancient Fathers , as Euthym. Theod. Theoph. Oecumen . and all the Greeke Doctors agree . Yea Gregory surnamed the Great , Bishop of Rome , doth so likewise expound it : and S. Bernard in his Epistle to a Bishop said th●… ( Euery soule ) saith the Apostle : then must you also ( speaking the bishop of Senona ) be subiect , he that shall offer to exempt you , shall but offer to tempt and delude you .

CHAP. XVI .

Arguments of Protestants from Antiquitie .

HE that is Alpha and Omega , first for Antiquity , and last for Eternity , Christ our Sauiour ( by the confession of your grand a a Bellarm. vide supra . cap. 7. Iesuite ) as he was man and the Messias , had no power temporall on this earth .

Secondly , S. Peter and the other Apostles ( as is also confessed by your most vehement b b Carerius & Sanderus vide cap. 7. Aduocates in their plea for Papall hierarchie ) were all subiect to the temporall States .

Thirdly , all ancient holy Popes , Martyrs , Fathers , ( as is c c Vide supra cap 9. & deinceps . commonly granted ) yea when they had force to resist the violence of Tyrants , Heretickes , and Apostates ; did performe subiection to temporall gouernment , as the ordinance of God , d d Vide supra cap. 9. Tertullian saying , If we would be reuenged we could not want force : e e Ibidem . cap. 9. S. Cyprian , We doe not resist , although our number be great : S. f f Ibidem . cap. 9. Nazianzene , Not though the people be prone to resist you : S. g g Ibidem . cap. 9. Ambrose , Not when the people are present and offer a defence : S. h h Ibidem . cap. 9. Augustine yeelding the cause , Because Christian subiection is to be performed in loue , and not in feare or by constraint . A doctrine for those times , namely , the first 600. yeares in generall vse , saith your i i Vide supra cap. 10. Bellarmine : And continued after Christ the space of 1000 yeares saith your k k Ibidem . Be●●la●●s : neuer changed till the yeare 1060. saith your * * Supra ca. 11. Tolossanus , Friburgens . Espencaeus and others . And shall we dare to remooue * * Deut. 27. 17. The ancient Land-markes of our forefathers ?

CHAP. XVII .

Other Proofs of Protestants from Antiquity in two most Christian and potent Nations : England , and France .

THat this soueraignity of his Maiesty ( whereunto , notwithstanding all Papall iurisdiction , we doe willingly subscribe ) may be knowen to be as anciently as earnestly challenged , I will only point at some few heads of examples of our ancient Christian Kings , which Sir Edward Cooke , his Maiesties Attorney generall , in his alwaies reportable and memorable Reports hath lately published .

a a Reports . part. 1. fol. 12. In the raigne of K. Edward the first , a Subiect brought in a 1 Bull of excommunication against another Subiect of this realme , and published it : But it was answered that this was then , according to the ancient lawes of England , Treason against the King ; the Offendor had beene drawen and hanged , but that by the mercy of the Prince he was only abiured the Realme . Compare this Bull , which did only push at a Subiect against his benefice , with that Bull which more mankeen goareth Kings , to giue them their mortall wound . At the same time The Pope by his Bull had by way of prouision bestowed a benefice vpon one within the prouince of Yorke ; the King presented another : the Arch-bishop refuseth the Kings presentation , and yeelded to the Popes prouision . This Arch-bishop then by the common law of the land was depriued of the lands of his whole Bishoprick during life .

b b Reports . fol. 15. In the raigne of King Edward the third , the King presented 2 to a Benefice , and his Presentee was disturbed by one , who had obtained Buls from Rome , for the which cause he was condemned to perpetuall imprisonment . Compare this Bull of disturbing onely the Present of Kings with that which doth ordinarily violate the Kings person .

c c Fol. 21. In the raigne of Richard the second it was declared in the 3 Parliament [ R. 2. cap. 2. ] that England had alwaies beene f●ce , and in subiection to no Realme , but immediatly subiect to God and to none other : and that the same ought not in any thing , touching the regality of the crowne , to be submitted to the Bishop of Rome , nor the lawes of their Realme by him frustrated at his pleasure . Compare this English King immediately not subiect to the Pope , and the aboue mentioned Iesu●ticall principle , * * Supra . All Kings are indirectly subiect to Popes .

d d Fol. 23. In the raigne of King Henry the fourth it was confirmed 4 that Excommunication made by the Pope is of no force in England . Compare this Of no force in England , with those excommunications which in these later times haue been made * * Supra . against England .

e e Fol. 26. In the raigne of King Edward the fourth , the opinion of the 5 Kings bench was , that whatsoeuer spirituall man should sue another spirituall man in the Court of Rome for a matter spirituall , where hee might haue remedy before his Ordinary within the Realme , did incurre the danger of premunire , being an hainous offence against the honour of the King his crowne and dignity . Compare this with their Acts , who haue made no other sute at Rome , but meanes to dispossesse English Kings of their crowne and dignity . Many other examples of like nature I pretermit , and remit the Reader desirous to be further satisfied to the booke of Reports , Habet enim ille quod det , & dat nemo largius . The conclusion is , that that challenge of Soueraigntie which was in opposition to the Popes Buls , ancient right and iustice in Kings which were predecessours , be not traduced now as an irreligious impiety , in the successors . The like might be spoken of France , but I hasten to the last Argument , presuming that my studious Reader perusing the French stories will ease me of that trauell .

CHAP. XVIII .

The last Argument of Protestants from Reason .

IT will be sufficient onely summarily to recapitulate the Arguments dispersed in this former Treatise .

The first Reason was long since Christened : for The Apostles ( saith your a a Supra cap. 7. Sanders ) did chuse rather to suffer euill , than to reuenge : wherein they were seconded by other heroicall Martyrs of Christ , Who thought ( saith your b b Supra cap. 8. Tolossanus ) their faith glorified in this , that being persecuted , yet they performed obedience . Questionlesse they had some reason heereof : One is specified by S. Cyprian , c c Ibidem . Christians must be Preachers of the supernaturall vertue patience , and not of vengeance .

Another by S. Augustine , that d d Ibidem . Induring the misery of this life , they may auouch their hope of a life eternall . And lastly by Arnobius , Heereby to make distinction of Christian obedience , from that other of Pagans : that whereas these yeeld onelie obedience proceeding from feare of man , ours should appeare to be from Conscience towards God .

The second Reason is politicke , which is that of your * * Supra cap. 6. Victoria , that the Clergy be members of the common-wealth : Ergo , they ought to be subiect vnto the state temporall . I will adde another of this kind which wee borrowed from your Acosta , shewing that licence of deposing Kings , is an Supr. cap. 10. occasion of much spoiles and bloudshed .

The third Reason is violent inforcing you by your owne confessions to grant our conclusion ; your confessions be of two kinds ; first , f f Bellarmine and all Iesuits . vide supra . The Pope hath not temporall Soueraignty ouer Kings directly , but onely indirectly , in ordine ad bonum spirituale , that is , as the temporall doth necessarily helpe or aduance the spirituall good of the Church . But g g Quia sequeretur hinc , quòd nec Rex directè Dominus esset in temporalibus , quia cuilibet Regi competit dominium in ordine ad spiritualia , vt ad iustitiam administrandam . Carerius lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 7. n. 13. So you may as well say ( saith your Carerius ) that a King hath not iurisdiction temporall , but only indirectly ; because his authority doth intend a spirituall good , a● namely preseruation of iustice in a common-wealth . And he saith truely as may be confirmed by Saint Augustine . h h Alitèr seruiunt Reges , quia homines sunt , aliter quia Reges ; quia homines sunt , Deo seruiunt rectè viuendo ; vt Reges sunt in regno suo bona iubendo mal áque prohibendo , non solùm quae pertinent ad humanam societatem , verum-etiam quae ad Diuinam religionem conseruandam conducunt leges sanciendo . Augustinus supra . A king as a man ( saith he ) doth serue God by his owne good life ; as a King , by gouerning other mens liues , to see that they doe that which is good : It is his office not only to ordaine lawes for the preseruation of the politicke peace , but also to establish true religion . From hence I conclude : that if this your distinction be good The Pope hath temporall iurisdiction ouer Kings to depose them , indirectly : that is , as far foorth as may be behooffull for Religion : then must you grant that Kings haue iurisdiction temporall onely indirectly , because their Office also is ordained of God [ in ordine ad Deum ] as a minister of God for defence of his Church . If your position be false , then hath not your Pope that power ouer Princes , no not indirectly .

The second Confession I take from Carerius , your most importunate , and most impudent magnifier of Papall authority , that ( excepting your Bozius ) we can reade of . This Carerius reasoneth thus : i i Donatio Constantini vel vera ●uit vel falsa ; si vera , vt veri Catholici consitentur , ●…m constat quo iure ( quasi dixerit Papali ) Principes Ital●am caeterasque partes occidentales possideant : si verò est falsa , quânam autoritate Zacharias primus Pipino petenti Regnum Franciae confirmauit ? Cur Leo tertius Carolum Magnum Imperatorem constituit ? cur Alexand. 6. orbem terrarum partitus , insulasque noui orbis Arragonum Regi einsque haeredibus donauit , vt ex eius diplomate patet ? Carerius lib. 2. de Donat. Constant . cap. 21. num. 14. The Donation of Constantine to the Pope ( whereby the possession of all the kingdoms in Europe were bestowed vpon the Pope ) was either true or false ; if true , then the Princes of the West parts hold their thrones by the Popes authority : if false , then had Pope Zachary no authority to confirm K. Pepin of France , nor Leo the third to constitute Emperor Charles the great &c. This your Doctor giueth vs this antecedent proposition . If the pretended Donation of Constantine to the Pope be counterset , then hath not the Pope authority to dispose of these Kingdomes . But , * * Canus vide supra . That pretended donation ( by your owne confe●sion ) is fabulous : so false is it , as this is certaine , k k Balbus supra . cap. 12. That no Pope was possessed of the dominion of the city of Rome , till the yeare of our Lord 1400. Insomuch , that l l Anno 755. donauit Pipinus Romanis Pontificibus Exarchatum Rauennae , cum magna parte Italiae , vt Historici testantur . Bellar. lib. 3. de Pont. cap. 3. Bellarmine can find no title of the Pope till the yeare 755. To the Dukedome of Rauenna .

The fourth from a necessary consequent , strengthened by the authority of S. Bernard , who writeth vnto Eugenius the Pope concerning this very point . His argument is ; The successour of S. Peter cannot challenge anie authority as descending from Peter , which Peter had not in himselfe : m m Apostolis interdicitur dominatus ; ergo aut tu vsurpare audi aut dominans Apostolatum , aut Apostolus dominatum ? Et paulò post : Non iure Apostolico haec tibi vendicares , neque enim ille , quod non habuit , tibi dare potuit . Bernard . lib. 2. de Consider. ad Eugen. But Peter had not this temporall . Ergo , ( for Eugenius did not challenge it directy essentiall to the Popedome ) the Pope , by S. Bernards iudgement , may not assume any such authority either directly or indirectly .

We may conclude , that both direct scripture , torrent of Fathers , and euidence of reasons do all confute this Papall Vsurpation ouer Kings as a challenge meerely ambitious , fraudulent , and rebellious . Come you therefore out of Babylon in this point with holy Bernard , and put vpon you his Christian resolution : for writing to king Lewis , who was n n Erat ei negotium cum Ludouico Crasso Rege improbo multa in Deum & homines flagitia perpetrante . Barclaius lib. 5. contra Monarchom . cap. 5. & 6. A wicked man ( saith your Barclay ) multiplying most heinous crimes both against God and man : yet against the suggestions of the rebellious spirits of those times thus doth S. Bernard determine for himselfe : o o Si totus mundus aduersus me coniuraret , vt aliquid molirer aduersus Regum maiestatem , ego tamen timerem Deum , & ordinatum ab eo Regem offendere temerè non auderem : Nec enim ignoro vbi legerim [ Si quis potestati resistit , Dei ordinationi resistit , & qui resistit &c. ] Bernard . Epist. 221. ad Lodo●icum regem . Though all the world ( saith he ) should conspire against me , to moue me to practise any conspiracy against the Maiesty of the King , I would feare God , and not willinglie offend the King ordained of God : for I cannot be ignorant of that which is written , [ If any resisteth the power , he resisteth the ordinance of God , and purchaseth to himselfe damnation . &c. Mark , S. Bernard maketh this necessity of subiection an article of Christian morality necessarily to be defended vpon danger of damnation : relying vpon a canon : what , Papall ? of Si quis nostris mandatis ? &c. no , but * * Rom. 13. Apostolicall , Si quis ; If any resist regall powers , he resisteth the ordinance of God , & purchaseth damnation . Whereby you are taught neuer to delude your soules in any such mischiefes by presumption of your good intent , as for the Catholicke cause , or , in ordine ad Deum , for that can neuer cary an order to God , which is against the ordinance of God . Who gratiously sanctifie you with that * * 1. Pet. 2. 17. Feare of God , which worketh Honour to your King , and glorie , through patience , to our Christian faith .

The second Member of this Third part , Which is a Confutation of the wicked doctrine of Aequiuocation .

CHAP. I.

I Am now to encounter this new-bred Hydra , and vglie Monster , which lurked a while in the inuisible practise of the Aequi●ocating sect ; but , at length being discouered , is now by the Arch-priest drawen into publicke by a solemne Approbation , as it were a golden chaine , that it might heereby appeare lesse monstrous .

The Priuilege of this Treatise of Aequiuocation by their Arch-priest .

a a Tractatus iste valdè doctus , verè pius , & Catholicus , certè sanctarum Scripturarum , Patrum , Doctorum , Scholasticorum , & optimarum rationum praesidijs plenissimè ●irmat aequitatem Aequiuocationis : ideóque dignissimus est , qui typis propagetur ad consolationem afflictorum , & piorum instructionem . Ita censeo , Georgius Blackwellus Archi-Presbyter Angliae , & Protonotarius Apostolicus . THis Treatise is very learned , godly , and Catholike : wherein doubtlesse the Authour doth confirme the equity of Aequiuocation by euidence of Scriptures , Fathers , Doctors , School-Diuines , Canonists , and soundest reasons . A work● worthy to be published in print for the comfort of all afflicted Catholiks , and instruction of the godly .

Thus do I iudge , George Blackwell Arch-Priest of England , and the Apostolicall Protonotarie .

All this is very semblable , for who could be more fit to commend this Aequiuocation , a piece of blacke art , than Blackewell ? Who can be more willing to autorize this Aequiuocation , the Arch-piller of security for Romish Priests , then their Arch-priest ? And from whence rather shall a man expect a priuiledge of lying , then from that place ( falsly called Apostolicall ) b b Paulus 4. Pont. Max. cum de me in consacerdotum suorum collegium cooptando se cogitare seriò dixerat ( nihil hic singo ) Immortali Deo gratias immortales egi , quòd mihi tantum mali non permis●t Christus : Quid fa●erem Romae , mentiri nescio ? Espenc●us Episc. epist. ante sex Tract . ad Cardinal . Castilion●um . where ( as their owne learned Bishop saith ) there is nothing but lying ? Of which kind ( by the assistance of the spirit of truth ) I shall proue this Aequiuocation to be , and also the approbation thereof : shewing that not one iota in all Scripture , not one example in all Catholicke antiquity , not one shadow of reason in all the wit of naturall man can be brought for the iust proofe or colour of this Mysterie of iniquitie .

First we must vnderstand that our Aequiuocatours teach a double kind of Aequiuocation .

The first is a mentall reseruation in the mind , differing from that which I outwardly expresse , whether it be by voice or writing . Their example : c c The Preface in the front of the booke of Aequiuocation , and the Argument of the booke . If a Catholicke or any other person before a Magistrate shall be demanded vpon his oath , whether a Priest be in such a place , may ( notwithstanding his perfect knowledge to the contrary ) without periurie securely in conscience answer no , with a secret meaning reserued in his mind , namely that he is not there so , vt ( loquar enim Latinè , ne hinc Idiotae ansam sibi arripiant nequitèr mentiendi ) quis teneatur illud detegere .

The second is a verball Aequiuocation , whether it be vocall , that is , vttered in the voice , or literall , that is , expressed in writing : when one word shall import two or moe different significations : as thus , To go to fast : the word fast , whether vocall or literall , doth equally signifie to abstaine from meat , and also , to make haste . By liberty of this Aequiuocation one merily did play vpon his friend going at dinner time to a churles house , O sir ( saith he ) you go to fast . But to vse the example of our Aequiuocatours ; d d The same popish Treatise , ●hap. 5. If one shall aske whether such a stranger ( this is for security of a Priest ) lieth ( meaning whether he lodge ) in my house , I may answer he lieth not i● my house : meaning , non mentitur , and heerein I say truth .

Concerning these two kinds of Aequiuocations I make two conclusions to be manifested in this dispute .

Our first conclusion is this ; Euery Aequiuocation by a mentall Reseruation is not an hidden truth , but a grosse ●…e .

The second conclusion is this ; Euery Aequiuocation , ( whether it be mentall or verball ) if it be vsed in an oath , though it be no lie , yet is it an abhominable profanation of that sacred Institution of God ; by whomsoeuer or to whomsoeuer this oath be performed .

To prooue that Aequiuocating by a mentall Reseruation is a lying falshood , we must first distinguish of falshood , lest the doubtfulnes●e of this word falshood , dull the vnderstanding of my religious Reader , not to perceiue the State of the Question .

There is a double kind of falshood in speech ; The first hath respect to the thing spoken , the other to the mind of the speaker . The example of the former : If thinking it to be ten of the clocke ( when it is but nine ) I shall say it is ten , this is false , but not a lie : Because e e Nemo mentiens iudicandus est , qui dicit fal●um qu●d ●utat ●sse verum ; quia , quantum in ipso est , non fallit ipse , sed fallitu● : lingu●m enim ream non fac● , nisi mens ●ea , Aug●st . ●n●hirid . cap. 18. None must be iudged a liar ( saith Saint Augustine ) who speaketh false , thinking it to be true which he speaketh : because heerein his purpose is not to deceiue the hearer , but he is only deceiued in himselfe . The other , when thinking that to be false which I speake , I affirme it to be true , ( and so on the contrary ) as thinking it to be ten of the clocke , shall say it is nine : thus whether it be ten , or no , I do lie : and thus sometimes a man doth lie in speaking a truth . As the Client , who hauing in his pocket both counterfet and currant gold , intending to cozen his Counsellour with the woorse mettall , by chance gaue him the better , saying ; Sir , I cannot be vnthankefull to any that shall deserue well , heere is an Angell , and so he departed a falsly true , a deceiued deceiuer , and an vnthankefully thankefull man . The first kind of false speech is against truth , as it is defined Logically , A congruity or consent of the speech with the thing : the second falshood is defined morally , as it is opposite to truth , which is a consonancy of the speech with the vnderstanding of the speaker , and this falsity we call properly a lie . f f Ille falsum loquitur contra scientiam , iste contra conscientiam , & verè mentitur . August . contr. me●d . cap. 5. The former kind ( saith S. Augustine ) speaketh falslie for want of knowledge : the latter speaketh falsly against his knowledge and conscience , properly a liar . And only of this liar now we frame our dispute .

CHAP. II.

NOw we must come into the lists of this conflict , and enter vpon our Aequiuocator , to conuince him a grosse liar by manifest arguments , and to answer all his Obiections in their due order .

The first Argument from the definition of a lie .

Maior . ) Whosoeuer vseth any signification of speech against his conscience , is properly a liar : ( Minor ) But our Aequiuocator doth vse a signification of speech directly against his conscience . Ergo , he is directly a liar . The Minor is not onely the confession , but also the profession of our Aequiuocator , as hath beene shewed . * * Vide supra cap. 1. If a Catholicke ( saith he ) shall answere , [ The Priest is not in my house ] contrary to his perfect knowledge . &c. And can any man of conscience deny the conclusion ? Yet because we haue to deale against consciences * * Ezech. 13. 11 Dawbed vp with mortar vntempered ; we adde

A confirmation of the former Argument .

Let vs consult with the principall Doctour of your more ancient schoole , as the first of all , with him , who for his excellencie obteined the name of Master , as it were the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of his time .

a a Mentiri est contra id quod animo sentit quis dicere , fiuè verum sit , siuè falsura . Lombardus l●b. 3. dist. 38. This is properly lying ( saith he ) when a manspeaketh any thing contrary to that which he thinketh in his mind .

This Doctour is seconded heerein by Aquinas , who in your opinion was not second to any in , or since his time : b b Veritau opponitur qu●d aliquis per verba ext●…ora aliud vult significate , quàm quod hab●t apud se , quod ad mendacium pertinet . Aquinas 2. 2. q. III. Art . I. Mentitur quis cum verbis aliquid significat quod non est , non autem quandò tac●t quod est . Ibid. ad 4. This is proper to a lie ( saith he ) when a man will signifie in outward words another thing then that which he thinketh in his mind . In which consideration S. Hierome about to free S. Paul from suspition of lying , who promised to the Corinthians , to come vnto them , but did not : c c Cùm Paulus ( 1. Cor. vlt. ) promi●it se venturum ad Corinthios , nec tamen veniebat , culpam mendacij non contraxit , qui● sic animo sentiebat , & quantum in ipso fuit , verum dixit : ita nemo mendax , nisi qui alite● sentit quam dicit . Hieron . Comm. in cap. 4 in princ . Tom. 5. de 1 Cor. vlt. S. Paul ( saith he ) did not lie , because he purposed with his hart to doe that which he had promised with his pen : but he only is a liar , who thinketh contrary to that which he speaketh . For , d d Omne mendacium falsum testimorium est dicendum , vnde est quòd Dominus monet , [ Sit in ore vestro , Est est , Non non . ] August . lib. de Men●ac . cap. 5. Euery lie ( saith Saint Augustine ) is that false witnesse ( which is forbid in the commandemnet ) therefore it is that our Lord Christ doth admonish euery one ; [ Let there not be in your speech yea & nay , but let your yea be yea , and your nay nay . ] This being his iudgement against , as I may so say , Sarai , a free speech : what thinke you he determineth concerning Hagar the bond-woman , that is , such a speech as is obliged by an oath ? e e Formale in per●…io est , putare falsum esse quod i●● as : interest igitur quemadmodàm verbum procedat ex animo , quia ream linguam non ●acit nisirea mens . August . serm. 28. de verl i● Apost. Tom. 10. & recensetur hoc testimon . ab Aquinate 2 ▪ 2. q. 98. art. 1. ad 3. This is a formall property of periurie ( saith S. Augustine ) to sweare that which I thinke is false : for nothing can make a guilty tongue , but only a guilty mind . To endeuour to prooue this point by testimonies of all men , who maintaine it , were a labour infinit ; and it may seeme also vnnecessary to confirme vnto men that which no man can deny . Now must we examine whether that we haue not by this proofe so intrapped the fox Aequinocatour , that he cannot find any hole whereby to escape .

The Aequiuocatour .

f f Treatise in initio & a●ibi . Though the Catholicke thinke the Priest to be in his house , yet may he answer , No , with a secret Reseruation in his mind , as this , Vt narremtibi . Or demanded whether I be a Priest , notwithstanding , contrary to my knowledge , I may answer , No , with a secret reseruation , Vt me detegam .

The Replie .

Suffer me Socratically to debate this point with you , and answer me friendly to these demands : Q. When being asked , whether you are a Priest , you answer No , what signification hath this word No ? R. It doth signifie directly , I am no Priest . Q. And yet you thinke you are a Priest . R. Yea I know it : Q. Wherewith doe you know it ? R. By my inward mind and vnderstanding , my conscience testifying this vnto me . Q. Can conscience beare witnesse ? then can it also speake . R. It speaketh as verily to my inward soule , as my tongue speaketh sensibly to your eares . Q. When therefore I aske you whether you be a Priest , your conscience saying to your selfe , I am ; would it not say the same to me likewise if I could heare it ? R. Certainly it would . Q. Yet it may be your mind may demurre or varie in that which it thinketh , as namely , thinking thus , [ I am a Priest ] yet to be able to perswade your soule , and say , [ I am no Priest . ] R. Vnpossible , for this is an infallible position , Mens non potest non intelligere quod intelligit : The mind cannot possibly but thinke that which it thinketh . Q. And it is as vnpossible but , [ I am ] the direct voice of your conscience , and [ I am not ] the expresse voice of your tongue , must be as contrary as yea and nay . R. True . Q. Then will this be as true , that when your conscience affirmeth that which your tongue denieth , that your tongue speaketh , against your Conscience . * * Prooued in the beginning of this chapter by common consent . And this is that which we haue proued to be flat lying , a conclusion which no art of Aequiuocation can possibly auoid .

Our Aequiuocator conceiteth a double intention of the mind , the one directly respecting the signification of the words ; and thus they grant that the Nay of their tongue was contrary to the yea of their vnderstanding : the second is an indirect intention , which is a clause of Reseruation , [ Vt dicam tibi . ] Whereby they would reconcile their tongue to their mind . Whereas our Witnesses haue thus determined , that truth and falsity doth consist only in the conformity or contrariety of the signification of the words , and direct intention of the mind , plainely calling it a lie , When one shall speake words ( saith Aquinas ) which doe not signifie that which he intendeth : When he speaketh otherwise then he thinketh , saith S. Hierome : When he speaketh that which hee thinketh is false , saith S. Augustine . But the indirect intention of the speaker [ Vtreuelem tibi ] cannot alter the signification of his outward words , [ I am no Priest ] which his direct intention of conscience doth contradict , saying , [ But I am a Priest . ] Ergo our Aequiuocating Priest cannot possibly reconcile such a contradiction of his hart and his tongue . Wherefore we will desire S. Augustine to conclude against our Aequiuocatours ; g g Da mihi aliquem qui iurat verum esse , quòd scit esse falsum , videtis ista quàm detestanda sit bellua . Aug. lib. de verbis Apost. Serm. 28. paulo post medium . Tom. 10. Whosoeuer shall sweare that which he knoweth is false , is but a detestable beast .

CHAP. III.

The second Argument from the Definition of Aequiuocation .

The Aequiuocator must speake .

a a The Treatise of Aequiuocation , chap. 2. WE will speake with Aristotle and the Logicians speaking of foure propositions : first mentall , only conceiued in the minde ; secondly vocall , vttered with my mouth ; thirdly written ( which I haue called literall ; ) and the fourth mixt , when we mingle some of these propositions together , when one part is expressed outwardly , as to say [ I know him not : ] the other part reserued in my mind , as to say , [ Vt tibi significem ] both ioined together make vp one true proposition .

The Replie .

Dare you appeale vnto Logicke ? This is the Art of all Arts , and the high Tribunall of reason and truth it selfe , which no man in any matter , whether it be case of humanity or diuinity can iustly refuse .

Consult therefore with the ancient Logicians , and proue ( marke what scope I yeeld vnto you ) that from the beginning of the world in the whole currant of so many thousand generations of mankinde , till within the compasse of these last foure hundred yeeres , and lesse , that euer any Logician , whether Infidell or Beleeuer , did allow your mixt proposition ( which is partly mentall , and partly verball ) or thinke it a Proposition : and I will be ( which my soule vtterly detesteth ) an Aequiuocator .

Yet I must not now expect impossibilities , to trie what you would proue , but shew herein what I can disproue .

The Argument .

Your proposition [ I am no Priest , ] mixed with your mentall reseruation , [ Vt tibireuelem ; ] if it be true , it is so either in his simple signification , or by vertue of Aequiuocation : but it is not true in his simple signification ; this you grant : neither can it be true by vertue of Aequiuocation ; this I prooue .

b b 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Arist. E●ench . lib. 1. cap. 4. Aequiuocation in word or speech ( sayth the Oracle of all Logicians ) is when one word or one speech doth equally signifie diuers things . As when one shall say , I am afrayd of a Dogge : this word Dogge hath a triple signification ; for it signifieth aswell a fish in the sea , called a Dogge-fish , & a signe in the heauenly spheare , wherein when the Sun hath his course , we call the dayes Dogge-dayes ; or as thirdly , it doth signifie mans faithfull seruant , a barking dogge . Therefore when he sayth , I feare a Dogge , whether he meaneth he is afrayd of the housholde dogge to be bit with his teeth , or to be drowned , and so deuoured of the Sea dogge , or to goe mad by the poisonfull influences of the Planeticall dogge : If , I say , he vnderstand any of these kinds , this his speech is true , [ I am afrayd of a dogge . ] But your mixt and patched proposition is not one word or speech signifying equally diuers things ; but contrarily ( as you pretend ) diuers parts of speech ( one in the minde , and another in the mouth ) signifying one thing : for , I am no Priest , and To tell it to the , what words can be more different ? which whosoeuer shall call Aequiuocall , may be iustly suspected to be bit with the highest dogge ; the position is so absurd and vnreasonable .

The Aequiuocator doth insist . His Obiection .

c c The Aequiuocator chap. 3. Voices and writings are ordemed for instruments and signes to expresse a Proposition which is in the minde ; therefore may I expresse all in word or all in writing , and the proposition in the minde remaineth the same . So may I by another mixt proposition expresse some part , and reserue some part in my minde . For example , If when I say [ God is not ] should lose presently my speech , before I could vtter the word following [ vniust , ] which hauing my pen in my hand , I exhibit by writing ; who doubteth , but all that is but one proposition , the trueth whereof consisteth of the mixture of both parts together ? So is it where one part is deliuered with the mouth , and the other reserued in the minde .

The Replie .

It were better that both you & I should become speechlesse and handlesse , than either in word or writing to minister such a bainfull Conclusion vnto the world . But to the matter : Voices and writings ( say you ) are outward signes of the inward propositions of the minde . This is true : What then ? And the part wanting in voice is supplied by the other word in writing . This is also true : But why ? Because words and writings be mutuall signes and interpretations of the minde . This is againe most true : What can you inferre from all this ? So the signification of the part outwardly expressed [ I am no Priest ] may be supplied with the other part of the proposition reserued in my minde [ Vt tibinarrem . ] I tell you this comparison is vtterly false . For the foresaid Oracle in his booke intituled , The interpretation of speech , saith , that * * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Arist. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Euery proposition enunciatiue ( that is , euery outward speech , whether by word or writing , whether affirming or denying ) is ordeined for signification : that is , ( as you haue well said ) to expresse some thing . But no mentall , or inward conceit of the minde is ordeined of God as a signe to expresse or signifie ( as words and writings doe ) but as a thing signified hath need to be expressed and expounded . Such is your mentall clause reserued [ Vt narrem tibi . ] Can you make this a signe or instrument to expresse & signifie your true meaning , which you haue purposely deuised for a den to lurke in , lest your false meaning might be signified and reuealed ? Thus haue you by your comparison of voices and writings made a strong loope whereby to strangle your selfe .

This is confirmed by S. Augustine .

d d Omnis Enunciatio ad id quod enunciat est referenda . August . lib. de Menda● . cap. 5. At omnis Enunciatio est vel affirmatio vel negatio alicuius de aliquo . Arist. 1. de Interpret . Euery speech ( sayth he ) whether it affirme or deny any thing , is to be referred vnto that which it doth affirme or deny . But your Negatiue , I am no Priest , can not be referred to your supposed true clause [ Vt narrem tibi ; ] for it doth not signifie any such thing : but only to your Priesthood . In which simple signification it is ( by your owne opinion ) most false . A delusion notably confuted by your owne Seraphicall Doctor , who affirmeth , that e e Dicitur Oratio vera quatenus est signum intellectus . Aquinas part. 1. q. 16. art. 1. Cùm voces natural tèr signa sunt intellectuum , innaturale est & indicium vt aliquis significet id quod mente non habet . Vndè Philosophus dicit Ethic. 4. quod mendacium est per se fugiendum . Aquinas ibidem . A speech is so farre foorth true , as it is a signe of a true vnderstanding . But your voice ( you know ) is contrary to your vnderstanding . And as concerning Voice , which is the signe , he addeth from Aristotle , That it is against nature to signifie any thing by words which we haue not in our minde . If then this equiuocation be vnnaturall , we haue not without reason called it a Monster . And now we will shew your vnnaturall countenance in a like example .

An example of like Sophistrie .

A presumptuous Gorgias and Sophister in Cambridge vndertooke the defence of this Probleme , Virtus est vitium , vertue is a vice : but being plunged in his answer , he fled to a reserued clause , fugere . And was not this his fugere , plainly your subterfugere ? Therefore as any Philosopher onely hearing these words , Virtus est vitium , must necessarily call it after that name of one of the markes of Sophistrie f f Arist. Elench. lib. 1. cap. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , that is , A singular absurditie : so might any hearing a Priest say simply , I am no Priest , call this after the name of the second scope of Sophistrie , which is g g Ibidem . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a lie .

CHAP. IIII.

The third Argument from the description of lying .

MAior. ) a a Nemo dubitat mentiri eum , qui falsum dicit causâ fallendi . August . lib. de Menda● . cap. 4. & in ●ine ca. 5. Lombard . lib. 3. dist. 38. Canus loc , theol . Mendacium est verbum cùm intentione fallend● . Tract . de 7 peccatis . cap. 5. 4. No man can doubt ( saith S. Augustine , and your whole schoole ) but he lieth , which speaketh any thing which is false , with an intent to deceiue another : ( The Minor ) But our Aequiuocatours professe by a false speech to b b Creswell , Allen , Southwell , Tollet , and others . Vide supra . delude ( their owne words ) Protestant-examiners , Magistrates , Pursuuants , and other Officers , and whosoeuer may be instruments to call their persons in question , Ergo , by their art of Aequiuocating haue they obtained a perfection of lying . What can you answer ?

The Aequiuocatour .

c c Treatise of Aequiuoc . quo supra . This speech [ I am no Priest ] is not false , being mixed with that clause which is vnderstood [ Vt tibi significem . ]

The Answer .

I haue already prooued from the iudgement of S. Hierome and S. Augustine , two of the most iudicious Fathers ; out of Lombard and Aquinas , the two eies of your Romish schoole , that wheresoeuer the speech is contrary to the knowledge ( such you haue granted your Aequiuocating to be ) there the speech is false and a flat lie . Which is now further proued from the end of lying , which is , To deceiue the hearer : except you professe an intention to deceiue men by true speaking , and so make truth a Seducer .

The Aequiuocatour doth insist .

d d The Treatise of Aequiuocat . Our Aequiuocating doth not alwaies deceiue the hearer , for if a man of Couentry , a place generally infected with the plague , dwelling himselfe in a part of that city , which is free from infection , and comming to London , shall be asked if he came from Couentry ( they intending to aske him concerning a place infected ) may answer , No : for heerein he deceiueth not the mind of the Questioner , but answereth directly to his intention .

The Replie .

If this one instance were true , yet could it not iustifie your other Aequiuocations , as that [ I am no Priest : ] whereby your whole purpose is to delude the intention of the examiner . e e Sic proferre sententiam vt diuersam opinionem in alterius animo generes : haec est intentio fallendi alium . Tol. Ies. Instr . Sacerd. lib. vlt. de Septempercatas cap. 54. For this is an intention to deceiue , ( saith your Iesuite ) to seeke to beget a signification of your speech in the mind of your hearer , diuers to that which you conceiue your selfe .

Secondly , this your instance is false ; for euery one that asketh a Question , doth intend to receiue a direct answer : and therefore his answer , [ I came not from Couentry ] who came from Couentrie , cannot satisfie the intention of the Examiner .

Thirdly , though it shall satisfie the remote intention of the Examiner , yet is it a lewd lie in the speaker , because he that speaketh truth hath alway a conformity betweene the intention of his mind and his speech : but to deny , He came not from that place from whence he knoweth he came , is no conformity , but infinite contrariety between his speech and his owne intention . An answer so grosly false , that a Iesuite of high esteeme in your church , writing against this spirituall iugling of his subtile lying brethren , doth confesse , f f Quidam putant eum , qui venit ex loco aliquo peste minime infecto , qui falsò habetur pro infecto , posse tuta conscientia & citra mendacuum dicere , se non venisse ex eo loco , dūmodò intelligat se non venisse ex loco pestilenti : quod si verum est , nihil tàm falsum esse possit , quod non queat ab omni mendacio libe●ar● ; quia mentitur qui verba aliter accipit , quàm ipsa significant . Azor. Ies. Inst. moral . lib. 1● . cap. 4. §. Primò quidem . That if this kind of answer ( concerning a place infected with the plague &c. ) be not false , then there is no speech so false , but it may be freed from falshood : because willingly to vse words in a contrary sense to that they signifie , is plaine lying . By whom you Aequiuocators may learne , that if the man you fancied came not from a place infected with bodily pestilence , yet this your aequiuocating proceedeth from minds spiritually infected with the contagion of pestilent lying . O but you are more subtile then your Aduersaries ; and so was the * * Gen. 3. 1. Serpent ( the Diuels instrument ) more subtile than all the beasts of the field . Yet behold one Doctor amongst you so subtile , that for that faculty he hath ( by figure of excellency ) beene called the subtile Doctour : who doth conclude all you Aequiuocatours liars , saying , g g Dicere [ non feci ] quod tamen seci , licet cùm hac mentis limitatione , [ vt tibi significem ] non est aequiuocatio , sed mendacium . S●●us lib. 5. de Iust. q. 6. art. 2. To say that [ I did not ] that which I know I haue done , although I speake it with this limitation ( or reseruation of mind ) [ Vt tibi significem it is not aequiuocation , but a lie . And not he alone , but euen the subtilest of all your Iesuites must be called a liar , if this your aequiuocating subtilty be not rancke lying : h h Quisquis fingendo alium fallere conatur , etiamsi aliquid praetereà significare velit , haud dubiè mentitur ; alioqui nullum esset mendacium , quod non istà ratione possit defendi . Maldonat . Ies. Com. in Luc. vlt. vers . 28. Whosoeuer ( saith he ) doth indeuour by feining to deceiue another , although he intend to signifie something else , yet doubtlesse he lieth . Which kind of aequiuocating when your diuine of Cullen doth examine , he maketh his Theophilus , that is , the louer of God , to answer Philetus , that is , a louer of himselfe ; to wonder at your i i Quis te docuit tàm bellè nugari ? quis tibi periurium tam latam latebram indicauit ? quâ mendacij excusatione si vti vellera , quis me ferret grauium prudentiumque virorum ? siquid veri habet vulgaris isthaec interpretation , [ Mentiri quasi contra mentem i●e ] men●●i est aliud animo sentire , aliud fallendi gratia significare . Genesius Theol. Doct. in lib. qui in●eribitur Theophilus de causis occultis . cap. 6. Vbi ex professo in hoc Aequiuocationis dogma vehementér inue●itur . Trifling foolerie thus contrary to the iudgement of graue and wise men , to inuent such a lurking hole and refuge for periurie . Concluding that It is certainly a lie , when any doth thinke one thing in his mind , and signifie the contrary in words , with intent to deceiue another . Therefore are you to be exhorted as his good Theophilus , for the loue of God , who is the truth , to recant this your doctrine of aequiuocating , the metropolis of lies .

CHAP. V.

The fourth Argument a Specie , or from a particular kind of lying , which is Periury .

MAior. ) a a Periurium est mendacium in iuramento factum . Tollet . Ies. Tract . de septem peccatis . cap. 54. Periurie ( as both your now Iesuites , and also your ancient Schoole saith ) is a lie made in an oth . b b Iuramentum , cui deest veritas , est Periurium . Malden . Ies. Sum. q. 1. Art . 11. For an oath void of truth must needs be a lie . c c Iu●are quod falsum esse putas , est formale periurium . Aquinas 2. 2. q. 98. A●t. 1. ad 3. Because in an oath to vse such a speech as thou thinkest is false , is formally periurie . Anancient doctrine , for the Prophet requireth in euery Iurist truth ; * * Iere. 4. Thou shalt sweare the Lord liueth in truth &c. But mentall aequiuocating is in an oath per●urie . Ergo simplie in it selfe without an oath it is a lie .

The Minor proued .

This is a certaine maxime in Diuinity , grounded vpon the eternall commandement of God , [ * * Exod. 20. Thou shalt not beare false witnesse ; ] and expounded by his Prophet , Thou shalt sweare in truth ; and confessed by your Azorius , d d Illud Ierem. 4. Iurabis in veritate : ad est , ad veritatem confirmandam , & ex veritate , vt is qui iutat non leui sed probabili ratione , ita esse arbitretur . Azor . Ies. lib. 11. Moral . cap. 2. §. Quanti quaeritur . That is to sweare both for the confirmation of a truth , and so also in truth as to thinke probably that true wherunto thou art sworn . ( Minor . ) But our Acquiuocatours do neither sweare from truth , nor for confirmation of truth . Ergo their oath is plaine periury . A conclusion thought so iust , that your owne great Moralist doth condemne all Aequiuocators heerein as periured liars ; e e Quidam putauit fas esse cuiquam , vt vitam suam conseruet , hosti iurare , tantummodò eo sensu , quem mente intùs concipit : possemus enim hac ratione quiduis negare , & nihil non , absque mendacio , dicere . Azor. ibid. cap. 4. §. Primò quidem . or otherwise ( saith he ) there is nothing which may not be affirmed and denied without a lie . Yet against your conceiued reseruation we will obiect a conceiued supposition for further confirmation of this point ,

This last Minor confirmed .

Suppose that your Guido hath wrongfully impeached some man of honour , as to haue beene an Inginer and worker in the Powder-vault together with Piercie and Catesbie brethren in that euill : and thus is the noble person made guilty of high treason ; but after by more exact triall of circumstances , it is found that the man of honour was neuer incorporate in that conspiracie , what can you answer for your G●… ? What else , but as your Garnet answered for your Tresham , I thinke he did aequiuocate ? saying [ The honourable man was present in that vault ] reseruing in his thought this clause [ Quatenus vir longissimè absens , praesens esse potuit . But answer , ( for we wil draw you out of that foxe hole ) He swearing according to these words , [ This man was one of vs Pioners , ] did his words accord with his direct meaning ? No : then was not his oath a veritate , from truth ; But did his oath ( the second propertie of a true oath ) confirme a truth ? No : for it did betray an innocent ; then was it not pro veritate , for truth . Therefore call you such an oath , Aequiuocation , or , Reseruation , or secret limitation , or what you will : our great grandfathers ( I am sure ) would haue termed it peri●rie , and adiudged it to the pillorie , a shame too little for so shamelesse a collusion . For seeing that f f Periurium grauius est homicidio ex parte peccati , e●si secus sit ex parte damni . Sa. Ies. Aphoris . tit. Iuramentum . ●…t . 26. Periurie ( though not in the iniurie to man , yet in it owne iniquity ) is a more grieuous sinne than murder ; it may be wished that mentall aequiuocation might haue a corporall suspension ; and where any of whatsoeuer profession he be , shall be found guilty of both murder and the aequiuocating clause of Reseruation ; the sinne of Reseruation , may haue a reseruation of punishment : that if , for the one , he hang by the neck , for the other , he may hang iointly by the tongue , as it is written , Iuxta peccatum ita erit & poenae modus .

CHAP. VI.

Our fift Argument from the principall subiects of Truth , God : and Lying , the Diuell .

1. God .

HEb. 6. 17. God willing to shew more abundantly vnto the heires of promise the stablenesse of his Counsell , bound himselfe by an oath , that by two immutable things , wherein it is impossible that God should lie , we might haue strong consolation &c. Heere we see the nature of a lie , g g Mendacium est malum tam intrinsecè , vt bonum reddi nullam ratione possit . Vasques Ies. in Thom. disp. 53. num. 22. To be so absolutely euill in it owne nature , as ( which all Diuines hold ) that nothing can make it good . Therefore so it is said , that to say it is vnpossible , that our good God , father of truth , should lie : is as much as to say , it is impossible for goodnesse to be euill , or for truth to be a ●ie ; because this is as contradictorie , as God not to be God .

Hence we argue .

Maior . ) That , which God can not doe by reason of lying iniquity , hath in it the iniquity of a lie . ( Minor . ) But your aequinocating conceit is that which for the lying iniquity thereof God can not possibly doe . Therefore it is a godlesse and lying wickednesse .

The Minor proued .

If God by an oth of promising saluation in Christ could vse your aequiuocation , then should the Elect of God not haue any strong consolation , when God by word or oath he promiseth life , and though h h Rom. 8. 16. his spirit witnesseth to the spirits of his Elect , that they are the sonnes of God , and that they shall not ▪ perish : yet might they suspect ( which blasphemie farre be it from the hearts of his Regenerate ) that it is spoken with some secret reserued clause of delusion . i i Rom. 3. 4. But let God be true , and euery ( especially aequiuocating ) man a liar , as it is written : for he who is Trueth will be iustified , when this sect continuing in this sinne must necessarily be condemned .

The principall subiect of lying is the Diuell .

Because when the voice of the Almighty had denounced death to the Transgressours , saying , k k Gen. 2. Eating of this fruit ye shall die : the Diuell in his instrument contradicting that trueth , sayd , l l Gen. 3. You shall not die at all : he is therefore truely called m m Ioh. 8. 44. A liar from the beginning . From whence we may argue thus .

Maior . ) That can not be a doctrine of trueth , which stoppeth a mans mouth , that he can not giue the Diuell the lie . ( Minor . ) But admitting your aequiuocation , all mankinde is silenced , as not able to giue the Diuell his due title of a Liar . Ergo aequiuocating is no doctrine of trueth .

The Minor proued .

For Eue , who was catechized in this trueth , God sayd that if we eat we shall die , and hearing the Diuels contrary suggestion , Though you eat you shall not die : might she not say to the serpent , Spirit thou liest ? If she might not , then is that no lying spirit , which is father of all lies : if she might , then is your close aequiuocating a lie . Otherwise , the Diuell might haue freed himselfe as you do , saying , I sayd truely , for I did aequiuocate .

The Minor confirmed .

Though the Diuell haue plunged himselfe in Abyssum , the bottomlesse gulfe of wickednesse , as to do wickedly for loue of wickednesse : n n Nemo tam i●…probus , qu●… malit honestis rationibus quàm nequitiâ peruenire ad ad quod cupit . Cuero in Offic. Yet is there not the most desperate sinner amongst men , but if he could , he had rather by honest than by wicked meanes atchieue whatsoeuer his wicked heart lusteth after . We will borrow of you an example : o o The moderate Answerer in his Epistle to his Maiestie . The late intended conspiracie , which ( as you confesse ) was so hainous an impiety , that God and heauen condemne it , men and earth detest it : Now then , what wickednesse vnder heauen would not these Conspirators haue attempted , which haue beene found guilty of so damnable a mischiefe ? Yet am I persuaded that for aduancement of their Religion they would neuer haue practised by powder , if they could haue preuailed with paper . All which I produce to this end , to let you vnderstand , that if mentall aequiuocation were lawfull , and did qualifie a false speech to free it from a lie , no man instructed in that Art would or could lie ; and so we should seeme to liue in an Outopia , where men shall be conuicted of most manifest aequiuocating falshood ; only he shall be the liar , that giueth the conuicted the lie .

CHAP. VII .

The sixt Argument , from examples of dissimulation condemned by 1. Scriptures , 2. Fathers , 3. Pagans .

1. Scripture .

ACts 5. 1. Ananias with Saphira his wife solde a possession , and kept backe part of the price , his wife being of counsell with him ; and the other part he brought and layd it downe at the Apostles feet . Then sayd Peter , Why hath Satan filled thine heart that thou should'st lie ? thou hast not lied vnto men , but vnto God . When Ananias heard these words , he fell downe and gaue vp the ghost . After this came in his wife , ignorant of that which was done ; and Peter sayd vnto her , Tell me , Sold you the land for so much ? and she sayd , Yea , for so much : and Peter sayd , Why haue you agreed together to tempt the spirit of the Lord ? and she fell downe , and yeelded vp the ghost .

These pretended to bring all their substance , and to tender it to the Apostles for the common good of the Saints , an act proper to the infancy of the Church : but they reserued one halfe for supply of their peculiar vses , if happily they might come to want . The woman is asked , Solde you the land but for so much ? her answer is , Yea , but for so much : and yet this dissimulation is called a lie . When she answered , For so much , meaning but one halfe , concealing the other halfe , it was not possible but in that dissimulation your reserued clause must haue come into her minde , to thinke , But for so much : vt in commune bonum conferamus : or , vt alijs largiamur : or your owne crotchet , [ Vt vobis significemus . ] Let any but enter into the meditation of such a dissimulation , and he shall finde it vnpossible but some such conceit will be flittering like a butter-flie in his mind , and like one of the * * 1. Reg. 22. false spirits of Satan , delude his soule , as not to discerne of a lie : but S. Peter calleth it a Satanicall lie . This is the first example of lying we reade of in Christianity , wherein the actours by the visible vengeance of God were strucke dead suddenly and perished in their sinne , and should therefore teach you , that though you may delude man , who only iudgeth the mouth , ( therefore S. Peter sayd of it , Thou hast not lied vnto men ▪ ) yet for feare of the all-seeing iust God , not any more thus , * * Act. 5. 9. To tempt the spirit of the Lord .

CHAP. VIII .

Examples out of ancient Fathers .

SAint Augustine vseth many , especially two : The first ; a a Ecce graui morbo periclitatur aegrotus ; cuius vires ferre non possunt , si ei mors vnici & charissimi filij sui nunciaretur : quid respondebis ? quicquid dixeris , nisi vnum de tribus responderis , proindè erit ac si filium mortuum esse dixeris ; aut enim respondebis mortuus est , a●t viu●t , a●t nescio ; haec duo , [ Viuit , & , nescio ] falsa sunt , illud autem vnum verum , mortuum esse dicere . Ex quo dicetur , homicida veritas : nùm si stuprum petens impudica f●…mina , & , te non consentiente , saeua amore perturbata moriatur , homicida erit ca●titas ? August . lib. contr. Mendacium ad Consentium . cap. 18. Suppose there is a man so dangerously sicke ( sayth this holie Father ) that if he should but heare of the death of his deare and only sonne , his strength cannot beare the griefe of it , but he must presently die : thou knowing his child is dead , and being asked of him whether he be dead or aliue ; what wouldest thou answer ? Thou must either say he is dead , or he liueth , or I know not : but these two , [ he liueth , and , I know not ] are both false ; the only true is , He is dead . But thou wilt say , then truth shall be a murtherer : why ? if an impudent woman shall soliicite thy chastity , and thou denie , she in the rage of her passion shall shortly die : wilt thou say that chastity is a murtherer ? Me thinke I heare our Aequiuocators say , what , no true answer but only he is dead ? simple S. Augustine ! for both of the other might haue beene made good , as either to say , I know not , inwardly vnderstanding , [ Vt narrem tibi , or , nescio calcibus , or , nescio cras ] and such like : the second vi●it , he is aliue , might haue stood for currant , intending in the mind , [ Viuit in Purgatorio , or , in coelo , or , vitam spiritualem , or , sibi , or , Deo , ] and an hundred such qualifications & reseruatiues , both to free the answerer from lying , and the man from dying . Well S. Augustine his simplicity made him a Saint ; what your double-harted subtilty may make you , I had rather you should duly consider , than I vtter .

His second example : b b Erat quidam Episcopus , nomine Firmus , ●irmior voluntate , qui cùm esset interrogatus , vbi esset quidam , quem ab ipsis persecutoribus occultauerat , Apparatoribus Imperatorijs respondit , se neque mentiri posse , nec homine prodere : & nè alterum è duobus faceret , tormenta multa perpessus est : quid hoc dici possit fortius aut honestius ? August . lib. de Mendac . cap 1● . There was a certaine Bishop , by name Firme , but firmer by the constancy of his will : who being asked where the man was , whom he had hid from the hands of the persecutor ; answered the seruants and officers of the Emperour thus : I ( quoth he ) may neither ●…e , nor yet betray my brother : and lest he should do either , he suffered many torments of these persecutors . What answer could haue beene giuen more resolute and honest than this ? Thus resolueth S. Augustine euen vpon the case in question : only differing heerein , that the example which the Father propoundeth , is of a Bishop for the safetie of a Christian ; the answer which our Aequiuocator teacheth is especiallie directed to lay-men for preseruation of Priests , viz. themselues . S. Augustine resolued that the Bishops answer was most honest : what wil our Aequiuocators iudge ? surely their subtilty teacheth that it was most sottish , by ignorance of another meane of euasion , through this backdoore of Reseruation , [ Vt tibi reuelem . ] Therefore the Catholicke Bishop might seeme foole-hardie to expose himselfe to torments when by aequiuocation he might haue kept his knowledge as inuisible for that time , as Christ did his person by his almighty diuine power amongst the persecuting Iewes . But S. Augustine could not finde that passage , because it was not heard of in those daies ; therefore doth resolue thus , that the answer of the godlie Bishop was honest : c c Scriptum est , os quod mentitur , occidit animam . Eccles. 1. Peruersissimè igitur dicitur , vt alter corporalitèr viuat , alterum spiritualitèr mori , homo enim non potest ni●i corpus occidere , Deus autem corpus & animam in Gehennam detrudere possit . August . lib. de Mendac . cap. 6. Because it is written , he that lieth slaieth his owne soule : therefore it were peruersnesse to say , that one should choose to die spiritually , that another may be saued bodily : for man it is who may kill the body , but God can take body and soule and cast them both headlong into hell . d d Dicit aliquis , ergonè Rahab melius fecisset , si nullam misericordiam hospitibus prestitisset nolendo mentiri ? Nonnè potuit dicere , scio vbi sint , sed Deum timeo , eos prodere ? posset hoc quidem dicere , si vera esset Israëlita , in qua dolus non esset . Verùm illi hoc audito ( inquies ) illam perimerent , domum scrutarentur : Sed numquid consequens erat vt illos etiam , quos diligentèr occultauerat , inuenirent ? perspexerat enim cautissima foemina , & ibi eos posuerat , vbi inuen●ri minimè potuissent : Si tamen à suis ciuibus esset occisa , vitam istam finiendam pretiosa in conspectu Domini morte siniuisset , & erga illos eius beneficium inane non ●u●sset . Sed ( inquies ) quidsi eos occultatos perscrutando inuenissent ? isto●…odo dici possit , quidsi turpissi●…ae mulieri mentienti credere noluissent ? at vbi ponimus voluntatem & potestatem Dei ? A quo enim post mulieris mendacium custoditi sunt , ab eo potuerunt , etsi illa mentita non esset , vtique custodiri : nisi fortè obliti sumus quid Sodomitis contigit , qui Lothi hospites quaerentes , domum in quo erant inuenire non poterant . August . lib. contra Mendac. 17. But the example of Rahab ( saith he ) will be obiected , whether she had not done well if she had not shewed mercy vnto her guests the seruants of God , when inquisition was made by their enemies to know whether they were there ; She might haue said , I know where they be , but I feare God , and therefore will not tell you to betray them : thus should she haue answered if she had beene then a true Israelite in whom there is no guile . But you will say that then they would haue slaine her and haue sought out the strangers : doth it therefore follow that they should find them ? But suppose she had lost her life , a life which must be lost , yet had her death beene right deare and pretious in the eies of God , and the benefit to her guests had not beene in vaine . You will furthermore obiect that they by this meanes might make more diligent search for her guests , and haue found them out ; and what I pray you , if they would not haue beleeued that leud woman ? Howsoeuer , who are we that we should censure or limit the power of God ? For he that preserued them after by this womans lie , might haue preserued them without her lie : except we can forget his power against the Sodomites ; they sought the guests of Lot , but were strucke blind , and not able to find the doore . This S. Augustine his Scio our Aequiuocators turne into Nescio : they can spie out a bench-hole to hide the persecuted by her answer , [ Vt tibi reuelem ] which was neuer reuealed to S. Augustine , nor yet to the holy Popes of ancient time : for S. e e Hoc mendacij genus perfecti viri magnoperè fugiunt , vt nè vita quidem cuiussibet per ●orum fallaciam defendatur . Greg. lib. 18. Moral . in Iob. cap. 2. Gregory , and f f Scriptura sacra prohibet etiam pro alterius vita menti●i . Innocentius . tit. de Vsuri● cap. 4. Innocentius in the same cause of preseruing the life of a brother was of the same mind . Neither is there one in all antiquity who euer knew the Nescio of your mixt proposition , no not for any cause of danger to be free from them there is no greater Tyrant than * * Sap. 1. a lie , which slaieth the soule .

There remaineth the third example deriued from Paganisme ; and also other two arguments , the one deduced from comparisons , the otherfrom effects , which will follow in their conuenient order . In a conflict we know it is required that the Souldier be prouided as well defensiuely , to ward ; as offensiuely , to impugne his Enemy . Let vs a while trie the forces of our aduersaries in

CHAP. IX .

The Obiections , which our Aequiuocators vrge for their mentall Reseruation from Reasons , Scriptures , Fathers .

1. Reason .

a a The Treatise in the Preface . Ibid. cap. 3. §. Two others . WE will prooue our mentall Aequiuocation by naturall reason . Thus , If I were alone and should talke with my selfe , and say one thing , vnderstanding a thing different from that , this is not a lie . Ergo mentall aequiuocation is iust and true .

The Answer .

Of these two most diuine properties , whereby man is discerned from beasts , Ratio & oratio , Reason and speech : the vse of speech was not ordained for a looking glasse , whereby a man might see himselfe , but as the * * Vide supra . Interpreter of the mind , whereby he might be knowen of others : as the learned Philosopher looking earnestly vpon a Scholar professed in all arts , Loquere , inquit , vt t● videam : Speake , ( quoth he ) my friend that I may see thee . Now because there is no man of sound braines , but he knoweth before he speake , what his tongue vttereth , there can be no neede that by speech hee should interpret his owne meaning to himselfe , no more then a man may be properly said to steale his owne goods , or commit adultery with his owne wife : because both these are actions ad extra , that is , without a man , and haue relation to others then to our selues . Which is yet more apparant heerein , seeing that he cannot be said properly to speake vnto himselfe , who cannot properly be said to lie to himselfe : but whosoeuer can lie to himselfe may also by speech properly deceaue himself ; because a lie is described to be a false speech , to this end , * * Supra . To deceiue . And can any by any wilfull lie deceiue his owneselfe , as thereby be made ignorant of his owne meaning ? This were to distract a man from himselfe . Therefore this naturall reason taken from the speech of man with himselfe , might best befit a pure naturall , or some person distracted ; namely , such a one as being beside himselfe can best talke with himselfe .

The second Obiection from Reason . The Aequiuocator .

b b Vide supra . When there is a mixt proposition the two different parts make one &c.

The Answer .

This is already answered , and proued that this patch of mixture is no better than a new peece of cloth in an old garment , * * Luc. 5. 36. which maketh the rent greater .

CHAP. X.

The Obiections from examples of Scriptures in the Old and New Testament .

1. From the old . The Aequiuocator .

a a Aequiuoc . chap. 10. THe Scripture telleth vs how * * Gen. 27. Iaacob told his Father Isaac that he was his eldest sonne Esau : which was not so in the sense of the Patriarch Isaac &c.

The Answer .

First , b b Si dixisset Iaacob [ Ego sum primogenitus tuus ] & non addidisset [ Esau ] excusari potuit : nunc autem non possit , quia Pater repetens , dixit , [ Tues filius meus Esau ? ] de industria restringens interrogationem ad personam Esau ; respondit Iaacob , [ Sum , ] inexcusabilis à mendacio . Caietan . Cardin. in Gen. 27. Esau ( as your Cardinall Caietan saith : c c Haec est opinio nec paucorum nec ignobilium Doctorum . Pererius Ies. Comm. in Gen. 27. Which is also the opinion of many learned Doctors ) being a proper name , which Isaac did purposely restraine to that particular person , saying , [ Art thou my eldest sonne Esau ? ] Iaacob heerein is inexcusable from alie .

Secondly , your Aequiuocators doe prescribe the vse of this your art to be put in practise onely before a iudge , or hearer incompetent : and shall wethinke that Isaac the blessed Patriarch and father of the promised seede could be an vnfit and incompetent hearer of his sonne now only crauing his blessing ? This Disputer therefore ( to speake mildly ) is incompetent ; although , I must confesse , this example is very semblable to your persons , in whom we heare Iaacobs dissembling voice , but feele the rough hands of Esau , who intended the murder of his brother .

The second example . The Aequiuocator .

d d The moderate Answerer . cap. 10. Such aequiuocation did the Prophet Ieremie vse ( Ier. 38. 26. ) when he tooke aduice of the King .

The Answer .

You discern̄e nothing in the outward speech of this Prophet but a lie , falsely imagining an inward aequiuocation of thought , which no man can discerne . But your ancient expositour telleth vs , that e e In hoc verum dixit Hieremias , alias non obediuisset mentiendo ; & hoc patet , quia hoc quod super dictum est , quòd Rex iurauit ei , quod non interficereteū , nec traderet eum in manus Principum , qui miserant eum in lacum ; nec est verisimile quòd Rex iurasset de aliquo , quod Hieremias non petiuisset . Lyra●… in Ier. The very outward speech of Ieremy was true , as may appeare , ( saith he ) in that the King swore vnto him , that he would not kill him , nor deliuer him ouer into the hands of those Princes . Neither is it probable that the King did grant any thing to Ieremy which he did not require . Which is plaine by the 15. verse .

Againe , if we iudge the outward speech of Ieremy was false , yet is it not written for our imitation , but for direction , that ( as S. Augustine doth obserue in the like examples ) Casus maiorum sit cautio minorum : the faults and slidings of the stronger might be warnings to the weaker . According to the wisedome of the holy Ghost in S. Paul , saying , * * 1. Cor. 10. 12. Let him that standeth t●ke heed lest he fall . Howsoeuer , for your glosse of mentall resernation ; shew vs but one Father whether Greeke or Latine ; one Pope , whether Catholicke or Antichristian ; one Author , whether learned or vnlearned , who did euer so fancie . But now you shall receiue

A generall Answer to all examples of the old Testament , wherein there may be any scarres of infirmities : from Saint Augustine .

f f Haec quidem in Scriptures sanctis legimus , non ideò tamen , quia facta credimus , facienda credamus , ne violemus praecepta , dùm passim sectamur exempla . An verò quia iurauit Dauid se occisur um esse Nabal , & clementi consideratione non fecit , proptereà illum imitandum esse dicemus : vt temerè iuremus nos esse facturos , quod non faciendum esse posteà videamus ? Imò sicut Lothum , cùm volu●… filias suas prostituere , ita Dauidem cum temerè turabat , ira turbabat . Aug lib. cont. Mendac . cap. 9. We reade of such kind of examples in holy writ , not that , because we beleeue they were done , we should therefore beleeue they may lawfully be done ; lest when we would imitate examples of men , we transgresse the precepts of God . This Answer doth S. Augustine vse against the Heretickes of his time , called Pris●●lli●…ists , who defended lying by the same examples whereby you would defend Aequiuocating , yet not so modestly , ( I confesse ) as you doe : for they maintained openly lying in his proper name ; you couertly vnder an adopted name of Aequiuocation , an euident argument that those Heretickes , whose best refuge was lying , either by ignorance knew not your aequiuocating crotchet , or according to the common language of Diuinity in those times , called it by his proper name , lying . And yet your booke for aequiuocating must be intituled , A Treatise forsooth against lying .

CHAP. XI .

Examples out of the new Testament obiected .

The principall be foure . The first Example . The Aequiuocator .

a a The Treatise cap. 4. THe infallible Verity saith to his Disciples , ( Ioh. 11. ) [ All things which I haue heard of my Father haue I manifested vnto you : ] Yet in the chapter following affirmeth , that he had many things to say vnto them , but they were not able to beare them away then . Therefore must the first proposition be vnderstood according to his meaning reserued . b b Ibid. paulò post . Aequiuocation therefore is euidently conuinced out of thi● speech of our Sauiour , who is infallible truth .

The Answer .

I answer ( with S. Augustine ) that c c Agit suas partes infirmitas : sed vt esse sibi adulterandum nemo discat à castitate ; cuiquam nocendum esse nemo discat à benignitate ; & esse mentiendum discamus a veritate ? August . cont. Mend. cap. 1● . Now mans infirmity plaies her part : but know that no man learneth of christity to be adulterous , or of godlinesse to be impious , or of bounty to be iniurious ; and shall we learne of truth to be liers , and periurious ? God forbid ! Touching the text , your owne Bishop Iansenius answering this obiection , saith , that d d Obseruandum est tales propositiones esse limitandas ad status , loci , temporis , conditionis circumstantias ; alioqui falsae essent : vt illa , Quodcunque petieritis Patrem in nomine meo , dabit vobis , id est , quaecunque pro conditione vestra expediunt , &c. Iansen . Concord . in Ioh. 15. & 16 These kinds of speeches , and all such are to be expounded according to the circumstances either of state , place , time , or condition of the persons speaking , or to whom they were spoken : as namely that , Whatsoeuer you aske my Father in my name he will giue you ; what any thing absolutely ? nay , but vpon condition it be expedient for you . So heere , Christ saying , I haue manifested all things , it is expounded by the circumstance of the present state ; signifying , All that appertaine vnto you to be knowen . So then heere is no concealed sense to deceiue the hearer , but it is euident by circumstance of speech . Whereby you may perceiue , that not that infallible Verity , but your owne infirmity and vanity hath deceiued you : in so peruerting the truth to patronize your lie .

The second place obiected . The Aequiuocator .

e e Aequiuoc . Treatise . chap. 4. Our Sauiour said to his Disciples , that he himselfe knew not the day of iudgement , but his father only : which by consent of holy Fathers is to bee vnderstood , that hee knew it not [ vt significaret eis . ] Thus Ambrose , Chrysostome , Theophilus , and Basil expound it . And Garnet at his arraingment obiected S. Augustine , and wholly depended vpon his iudgement in the same exposition .

The Answer .

It will not be pertinent to oppose the other exposition of ●…Multi veteres Patres Athanas . Greg. Nazian. Theod. Cyrillus , Autor operis imperfect . in Matth. docuerunt Christum quatenus hominem diem iudicij ignorâsse . Maldon●● . Ies. Comm. Fathers , Who were many ( saith your Maldonate ) expounding this text thus ; that Christ , as he was man knew not the daie and houre &c. but the question is , whether the former exposition of S. Augustine and others doth imply any mentall equiuocation . And because Garnet did select onely S. Augustine of all the Fathers , we will appeale to S. Augustine for answer to them all . By whose testimony it doth appeare , that when our Sauiour said , I know not the daie , signifying , [ vt dicam vobis ; ] this clause whereby he meant to conceale the time , was not concealed from them ; who though they were by the sense of the speech held in ignorance not to know the day , yet were they not ignorant of the sense of the speech , which was , I may not let you know it . For he maketh the sense of the word Nescio , I know it not , to be a figuratiue speech , and by the emphasis of pronunciation to signifie so much to his Disciples , as you shall not know . His examples . g g Qemadmodum dicitur de Deo Deut. 13. [ Tentat vos Deus vester vt sciat si diligatis eum . ] non vt ipse sc●●t , quem nihil latet , sed vt scire vos faciat quantum in eius dilectione profecerimus , tentari nos permittit . Secundam ipsam locutionem dicit Dominus noster nescire se diem & hor Turrian de sine seculi : quid enim potest esse , quod ipse nesciat ? sed quia hoc vtilitèr occultabat Discipulis , nescientem se esse dixit , quia illos nescientes occultando faciebat . Secundum hanc figuram etiam Patrem solum dixit scire diem ipsum , quia eundem filium scire facer●t . Talibus locutionibus etiam abundat nostra consuetudo , cùm dicinuis laetum diem , quia nos laetos facit ; & pigrum frigus , qui pigros nos facit , &c. August . de Genes. 1. contra Manich. lib. 1. cap. 22. When it is written Deut. 13. The Lord your God trieth you , that he may know whether ye loue him . These words , [ That he may know ] do not signifie that God may receiue knowledge , who knoweth all things before they be ; but the sense is this , That he may make you to know how much you haue profited in his loue . So Christ speaking to his Disciples , saying , The Sonne of man knoweth not the day of iudgement , had this meaning , to make his Disciples that they should not know it . Now therefore as the people of God vnderstood the figure of the phrase , Vt sciat Deus , in his id est , vt scire vos faciat : so did his Disciples by circumstance , or emphasis of Christ ; speech vnderstand his Nescio , in his id est , vt vobis dicam , which is yet more perspicuous by that which S. Augustine doth adde ; Such kind of speeches ( saith this holy Father ) are ordinary in the common speech of men , as when we say , It is a pleasant , or a drowsie day : signifying that the day maketh vs pleasant , or drowsie . I would desire the Reader to compare this Nescio of Christ with S. Augustines Nescio , in his * * Supra chap. 8. lit . 〈◊〉 . former example , and hee shall easily interpret S. Augustine by S. August , to vnderstand that Nescio cannot admit a concealed sense . Now what man of common sense doth not know the sense of such speeches ? plainly shewing that the Apostles did then know the sense of that Nescio , the day of iudgement , onely that they might not know it . Can then your vnknowen Reseruation haue approbation by S. Augustine ? fie no : his Christian ha●t was ●o diuinely precise in this point , that the did not admit of dissimulation for preseruation of the glory of woman-hood , womans chastity ; no not for the preseruation of another mans life , no not of our owne life , no not for gaining a mans soule . And will you make him guilty of more than Heathenish Aequiuocation ?

Secondly , consider but the vse of your imagined Reseruation , which you prescribe to be then only requisite , when the hearer is incompetent and vnfit to vnderstand the clause reserued : but shall any imagine , that the Apostles were not fit to vnderstand ( the only reason of your imagined Reseruation ) that they were vnfit to know the day of iudgement ? senselesse , for our Sauiour elsewhere saith , * * Act. 1. 7. It is not for you to know the times and seasons . And why was not that [ vt vobis significem ] at this time also seasonable for them to vnderstand ? Yes doubtlesse , if that were the meaning of his wordes , they vnderstood it , and then it was no concealed reseruation ; if it were not his meaning , there was no aequiuocation .

Thirdly , the purpose of the Aequiuocator is by his secret reseruation To delude his hearer . And will you say now therefore that Christ did aequiuocate , that is , delude and deceiue his Disciples ? This were blasphemy .

Fourthly , this exposition [ Vt vobis significem ] is either deriued from the circumstances of Christ his speech , whether of time , or place , or persons &c. Or else it is idlely imagined , to say that the Fathers doted dreaming vpon a sense without light of some circumstance would be iniurious to reuerend Antiquity , and prooue the subuersion of your owne cause : but if the Fathers collected this by circumstances and consequents of Christs speech , then was it not the sense concealed , except you will say S. Augustine and S. Ambrose did vnderstand better the meaning of our Sauiour then his prime , chosen , and ( concerning the tenor of Christs speeches ) his familiar Disciples . Lastly we will conclude this point by the testimony of your Genesius , who will tell you that this sense which you conceit , is not only contrary to the sentence of all Fathers , but also against all common sense : h h Non sustineamus hâc interpretatione nitentes . quidquam non modò contra veterum & grauissimorum Doctorum consensum , verum-euam contra communem sensum , quasilegem in vitam communem inducere . Genesius in lib. qui inscribitur Theophilus , Tract . de cansis occultis . We may not suffer ( saith he ) those who relie vpon this interpretation to bring in ( speaking of purpose against your Aequiuocation ) any doctrine amongst men , which is not onely contrary to the common consent of ancient Fathers , but also common sense .

The Aequiuocator .

i i The moderate Answerer chap. 10. Our Sauior Christ in going to * * Luc. 24. 28. Emmaus , did faine as though he would go further . Ergo , it is lawfull to aequiuocate .

The Answer .

k k Graecè est , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; quòd honestius conuerti possit , & conuenientius [ prae se ferebat : ] vt quidam exponit . Iansenius Concord , in hunc locum . The Greek word ( saith your Doctor ) might haue been more securely and conueniently translated , as one doth it , [ He made as though he would go forward : ] But Aequiuocatours delight in faining : will you therfore behold your own visage ? l l Priscillianistae haeretici ex hoc loco , ( vt docet August . lib. ad Consentium cap. 13. ) probare contendunt licere nobis aliquandò mentiri . Maldon . Ies. in hunc locum . The Heretickes , called Priscillianists , as appeareth in S. Augustine ( saith your Iesuite ) from this text did labour to prooue a lie lawfull . And in reading S. Augustine you shall finde , that neuer either Catholickes or Heretickes could discerne in your mixt proposition any thing but a lie . But to the text ; the Fathers shall be our Iudges , and your Authours our witnesses .

First , m m Mendacium non est , inquit Augustinus , verba ambigua proferre occultandi veritatem causà , modò non fiat animo fallendi alium : ita fictio illa in factis vitiosa non suit , sed salutaris , qualis fuit illa Pauli cum circum cidebat Timotheum , vbi non circumcisionem tanti fecit , sed vt Iudaeus Iudaeis factus Iudaeum lucrifaceret . haec Augustinus . Nec hic Christi gestus ad fall●ndos eos , sed vt hac ratione excitaret discipulorum animos ad hospitalitatis vi cut●… . Iansen . Concord . in hunc locum . Christus figuratè sinxit se longris ●re : qui● cum lo●…s esset recessurus ascendendo in coelum , per hospitalitatem quodammodo reti●ebatur in terra , inquit Augustinus . Aquinas 2. 2. q. 111. art. 1. Saint Augustine ( as your Bishop relateth ) saith that Christ did seeme to go further , but not with any purpose to deceiue those Disciples . How then ? your Aquinas will tell you . S. Augustine saith , that Christ made as though he would go further ; to signifie figuratiuely , that he was ready to go into heauen , but that for a while he was in a sort retained by earthly hospitality . n n Christus , vt Greg. & Beda exponunt , noluit discipulos istos fallere , sed postùs docere eos falli , ●ocue eos errore liberare , qu●… utabant illum non resurrexisse , nec Christum esse posse : ergo fingebat se tanquam , eorum opinione , peregrinum longiùs ●…e . Quemadmodum Propheta Michaiah 1. Reg. 22. 15. respondet regi quaerenti an esset praeliandum in Ramoth [ Ascende , inquit , & vade properè , quia tradet eos Deus in man Regis ] cùm tamen ●atis intelligeret . Regi ibi esse moriendum , haec loquens non sua , sed Regis & falsorum propheta●… opinione , à quibus rex erat deceptus : non vt homine falleret , sed vt ●…si●… doceret . Solemus enim aegro dicere , qui aquam rubio color● tinct●m , quam ●●s , vinum este putat : Accipe vinum ; vbi 〈…〉 on sall●mus , sed aegrum 〈◊〉 signis●…s . Maldonat . 〈◊〉 . s . 〈◊〉 . in 〈…〉 Pope Gregory likewise and Bede ( saith your Iesuite ) hold that Christ did it not to deceiue them , but rather to shew how they were deceiued . He cannot be said to he ( saith Gregory ) who vseth words , which are not intended to deceiue another , but to shew that he is deceiued , as the Prophet Michaiah dealt with Ahab . 1. Reg. 22. The story is plaine : when King Ahab was bent to go to fight against Ramoth Gilead , all the false Prophets promised him a prosperous warfare : the King calleth for Micheas , and asketh , [ Shall we go vp against Ramoth Gilead , or no ? the Prophet answered , Go vp and pros●er . ] When notwithstanding he knew that the King should perish : but this was an irony , and in a sense knowen to the King himselfe , who therefore charged him to speake seriously . Therefore the Prophet spoke these words now according to the meaning of the false Prophers in scorne : as When a sicke man shall take water died with a red colour , which he is perswaded to be wine , we would say in iesting manner , well drinke your wine ; thereby to tell him his errour , and not to cause him to erre : so here these disciples not perswaded that Christ was risen from death , but held him as a stranger and passenger feined himselfe a passenger to go forward . Come to the literall and historicall sense . [ He made as though he would go furder : and they 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , that is , did compell , or , constraine him , saying , Abide with vs , and he abode with them . ] And now it appeareth , he meant as he seemed , to goe further , but after was ouercome by their curteous importunity to yeeld vnto them : as the * * Gen. 19. Angell of God was by the vrgent request of holy Loth : heereby teaching vs a double instruction : in respect of man not to be peruerse , but when our occasions may suffer vs to yeeld to the sweet violence of curtuous humanity ; in respect of God [ Who loueth an importunate beggar ] to be instant in praier , knowing that God , who in our remisnesse will , by withdrawing his graces , seeme to go from vs , yet condescendeth in mercy to our importunity , and will abide with vs . If therefore we consider the figuratiue sense , then in this fiction there could not be your aequiuocation , for it was done to instruct them , and not to deceiue them : If we imbrace the literall , then it was no fiction , but a plaine and familiar humane practise , as any one who departeth from his friends is truely said to depart . What reason or religion then shall we call this , which thus from an action of sensible instruction , would prooue an aequiuocating dissimulation , a reseruation insensible , that is to say , a deceitfull delusion : turning by this meanes the Oracle of the sonne of God Christ Iesus , authour of the truth , into the Oracle of Delphos , the professed diuellish schoole of Sophisticall aequiuocations ?

The fourth place . The Aequiuocatour .

o o Treatise of Aequiuocat . chap. 4. Iesus said to his Disciples , * * Ioh. 7. I will not go vp to the feast at Hierusalem , and yet afterward went , meaning ( as Bellarmine in his Dictates doth expound ) not as the Messias , but in secret , or ( as S. Cyrill doth interpret ) not to solemnize it publickely ; or ( as S. Augustine will haue it ) not to manifest my glory ; or else not the first or second day , but in the middest of the weeke . Thus haue wee from Scriptures and Fathers sufficiently proued our mixt proposition .

The Answer .

You haue bestowed many leaues in Commenting vpon this text , to euince from hence your reserued conceit : let me borrow a little leaue to pleade aswell for truth , as you do for a lie , and shew you , how expounding this place , you , blinded with the loue of your Thais , had rather snatch at any meaning , then take that which is meant : for those words [ I will not go vp ▪ in the Greeke are , [ I will not go vp yet : ] and then ( as your Iesuite Maldonate well obserueth ) p p Qui dicit se , nondum , ascendere , non dicit se non a scensurum , nec aliquid contrarium dictis postea fecerat , atque it omnis questio tolleretur . Maldon . Ies. Comm. in Ioh. 7. He who saith he will not go vp yet , doth not denie that he will not go vp at all , and therefore going ap afterwards , that act doth not contradict his former speech , and so all doubt and question is easily assoiled .

But your Helena , the Latin vulgar text must be imbraced , for q q Treatise quo supra . Albeit , ( saith our Aequiuocator ) in all the Greeke co●ies it be [ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , nondum , not yet , ] yet all Catholickes are bound to admit [ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , non , not , ] because it is so in the vulgar edition . How farre they erre from Catholickes heerein , I haue * * Apoleg . Cathol. part. 2. elsewhere shewed ; how wee are to esteeme of the Greeke translation in this present text may appeare by the testimony of your forenamed Iesuit , saying : r r Innumeri penè codices Graeci sunt , in quibus legitur [ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , nondum ascendo ] maximè verò antiquissimus Vaticanus , toto terrarum orbe celeberrimus , deindè Autores graues , Nonnus , Chrysostomus , Euthymius . Maldon . Ies. quo supra . Almost innumerable Greeke copies haue [ I will not yet ascend ] and in that most ancient Vatican copie vniuersally commended throughout the world , it is sore●d , which reading many graue and learned Fathers do fellow .

Yet we will not so strictly challenge our right in this equity approoued by all antiquity , which is , that as in discerning pure water , rather to examine it by the fountaine , then the riuer : so we iudge of the truth of texts by the Originall , rather then by the translation . For your Latin text doth sufficiently betoken the same sense of the Greeke , [ Not yet ] : so do two of the principall Doctors of your Church paraphrase : the first is your some-time Iesuite , and late Cardinall , Tollet : s s [ Non ascendam ] id est , Nondum ; quia [ Tempus meum ] quandò me i●e oportet , [ nondum est impletum : ] quo tamen impleto ascendam , nè scandalizentur , quod ipse nollet ire ad festum , nondàm enim legis obseruantia cessârat . Non absolutè nega●… , significans se posteà venturum ; nam vox [ Non ] est dictio limitata , quae est in Graecis 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , quae vox eadem in sequentibus , [ Nondum tempus meum impletum est . ] Tollet . I●s . & Cardin. [ I will not go up , ] that is , ( saith he ) not yet , because [ my time ] when I must goe vp [ is not yet fulfilled : ] which being fulfilled , then I will goe vp ; lest that his Disciples should haue beene offended at his absence from the solemne feast at 〈…〉 rusalem ( because the obseruation of Iewish rites was not yet abolished ) Christ did not absolutely denie to goe , but did signifie that after a while he would go vp . For the word [ Not ] in the Latin is the same with [ not yet ] in the Greeke , as appeareth in the words following , [ For my time is not yet fulfilled . Our next witnesse is your bishop Ia●senius , who from the sound light of the text concludeth that [ t t Verba quae sequuntur , [ Tempus au●em vestrum paratum est ] significant Christum non opera sua facere aliorum hominūmore , prout occurrit , sed certis temporibus praescribere sibi , & prout nouit ●a maximè facere ad Dei gloriam , idcircò tempus sibi nondum opportunum ascendendi , vobis autem , ou● ex praescripto Dei viuitis , tempus paratum est adeundi festum . [ Non ascendam ] id est , non adhuc ascendam : qui sensus satis indicatur , cùm sequitur , [ Quia tempus meum , ] quo scz . mihi ascendendum est , nondum est impletum . Et Erasmus testatur antiqua quaedam Latinorum exemplaria habere [ Nondum : ] & hae est Germana expositio . Iansenius Concord . in hunc locum . Not ] signifieth plainly , not yet ▪ and that this is the proper exposition of the place . Adding ou● of Erasmus , That many ancient Latin translations follow the Greeke , hauing , [ not yet . ] Therefore this text admitteth no reseruation .

What shall we then say to the other expositions obiected ? only this , that whatsoeuer exposition they vnderstand , did thinke that the same was aswell vnderstood of the Apostles , as of themselues . For if the Apostles ha● not t●… that Christ would haue gone at all to the feast , they should haue beene scandalized : saith your Iansenius . But your coined Reseruation is alwaies supposed of you to be a clause concealed , and not vnderstood . Therefore in all these expositions alledged , there appeareth not the least haire of your foxtaile , you call Aequiuocation . Scriptures forsake you , or rather you them : now you will haue recourse vnto Fathers .

CHAP. XII .

Obiections from Fathers .

The Aequiuocator .

a a Treatise for Aequiuocat . chap. 8. SAint Gregorie ( * * Humanae aures talia verba nostra iudicant , qualia foris sonant : diuina verò iudicia talia ●a audiunt , qualia ex intimis proferuntur ; certè noue●…t ille , qu● intentionem alterius varijs explicat verbis : quia non debet alioqui verba considerare sed voluntatem & intentionem , quia non debet intentio verbis deseruire , sed verba intentioni . lib. 26. moral . cap. 7. ) teacheth that we ought not to respect w●rds , but the intent of the speaker . Ergo the intent maketh the Proposition true .

The Answer .

You roue from the marke , your learned Doctor will direct you to vnderstand the meaning of S. Gregory , as thus : b b Gregorius eorum calumniam taxat , qui contra loquentis indubitatam mentem verba malitiôsè interpretantur . Sic enim hunc locum viri doctissimi interpretantur , qui docent cùm calliditas adhibetur ab alterutro dic ente , vel accipiente , tùm demùm orationem accipere ad mentem eius , qui simplicitèr intelligi● ▪ Genesius in suo Theophilo . cap. 6. Gregory doth in that place ( saith he ) reproue a quarreller , who knowing the simple meaning of him , with whom he doth contend , yet maliciously doth wrest his words : And thus do the most learned expound S. Gregory . This kind of example we reade of in our Stories : An Inne-keeper in London at the signe of the Crowne , to incourage his sonne to learning , would vsually say , Learne fast , child , and I will make thee heire of the crowne . One peruersly taking aduantage of the ambiguity and double sense of the phrase , heire of the crowne , brought him in question of high Treason , & the poore Inne-keeper ( as I take it ) lost both his artificiall and naturall Inne . Here was place for S. Augustine his moderation not captiously to catch at mens doubtfull words , where we are not ignorant of their simple meaning . The like I haue heard of a Minister called in question of periurie , because he had sworne that N. was possessed of a lease , as it might be the 13. day of May . It appeared , indeed , that vpon the same day the said lease was deliuered to the forenamed N. according to this forme of law , To hold from the day of the date heereof . O sir , ( saith a Lawyer ) you are now conuicted for a notorious periurer ; for these words From the day &c. are vnderstood exclusiuely , signifying after that day , and that the lease was not in force till the next day . Seeing then ( saith the Minister ) both law and Lawyers faile , I must beseech your honours to giue me leaue to shew the simplicity of my meaning in a case of like tenor ; leaue was granted him to plead his owne cause : thus then ( quoth he ) when any in this honourable assembly was married after this forme , To haue and to hold from this day forward ; whether were they man and wife before the next day , or no ? If they had said no , they should haue stained their first-borne ; and , affirming it , they were forced to acknowledge the simplicity of his meaning , and remit the rigour and extremity of the law . Haue you no Father to father your aequiuocating lie vpon , but only Saint Gregory ? ( For this is the onely direct testimony which you alledge out of the Fathers , to this purpose . ) You thought , belike , that if you must haue an authour for a lie , it was most likely he should be a Pope . But you must then make choise of some other , than S. Gregory , who I am sure ) as Popedom is now defined ) was nothing lesse than a Pope . We wil conclude concerning Fathers with your owne authours : c c Hanc sententiam aliqui tueri mo●…tur contra 〈…〉 & summorum Theologorum auto ▪ itatem . ●ullu●autem ante G●brielem hanc aequatiocationem commentus est . Genesius quo supra . That this maner of aequiuocating is against the autority of most ancient and chiefe diuines , & that none before Gabriel ( not that Gabriel , Angel of light , but Gabriel Biel a Sophister ) taught it . Whosoeuer was the author , I dare boldly conclude , that though S. Gregory , or a thousand of Saints , yea though celestiall Gabriel , or any Angell from heauen should teach and authorise such a doctrine as this , we may from the word of God pronounce him * * Galat. 1. 8. Anathema . Now that we haue wrested your weapons out of your hands , it will be easie to pierce you euen with similitudes , the bluntest kind of Argument .

CHAP. XIII .

Our seuenth Argument from comparison of a 1. Signe , 2. Interpreter , 3. Coine , 4. Gygesring .

a a Aequiuocat . supra . VOices and writings are as signes ( say you ) and instruments ordained to expresse a proposition . Very good , now euery signe which a man shall vse contrary to the signification thereof , is a lying signe : thus to hang an ●uie bush at a Bakers dore would be a lying signe ; thus idols in visible formes made to expresse the essentiall forme of the inuisible and incomprehensible God are called * * Is . & Ier. lying vanities : the mirabilia , that is , wonderfull workes which exceed not the principles of nature , and yet challenge vnto themselues the name of Miracula , as though they proceeding from an omnipotent power aboue nature are called * * 2. Thess. 2. lying wonders : the action of the stage-plaier , who lifted vp his hand to heauen crying , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 earth , cast them downe againe to the earth , crying , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 god in heauen ; was counted a solecisme and lying gesture . And shall not your voice , I am no Priest , which cannot possibly expresse ( that which you are ) a Priest , be a lying voice ? Yes verily , and your pen also defending and approuing this doctrine of lying , is made of the same wing , whereof others were , whom God condemned by his Prophets , saying , * * Ier. 8. 8. Stylus Scribarum est styl●s mendax ; the pen of the Scribes is a lying pen . But whereunto shall I compare this generation ? they are like vnto Cacus in the fable , who is said to haue stolen oxen , and lest hee should be traced by their right footings , he dragged them backward by the tailes into his denne : so the right answer of our Aequiuocator should haue been , I am a Priest , but he saith contrary , I am no Priest . Euen by this deuise wresting a meaning by a clause of reseruation ( this is the taile ) and so like Cacus lurketh safe in the closet of his hollow heart .

The second similitude is an Interpreter : for Aristotle defineth euery proposition to be an interpretation of the mind , You must now imagine that your Pope should send his Nuncio to congratulate ( together with Amba sladours , from other Princes ) our Kings last miraculous deliuerance , with all complementall pretences of ioy ; for his Interpreter he shall make cho●●e of you ( Aequiuocator ) who professe your selfe his Maiesties loyall subiect , whom hee shall acquaint with his secret meanings and clauses reserued in his message : Notwithstanding our Aequiuocator shall report it thus . His holinesse doth greatly reioice ( most renon med King ) at your happy deliuerance ▪ Reseruing that which was the meaning of the Nuncio ; Ab omni spe obtinendi Romanum imperium : ] and wisheth vnto your Maiesty with all his hart [ reseruing another clause , which was intended by the Nuncio from his holinesse , Admodùm exiguam ] contiauance of Gods protection . Will any iudge otherwise of such an Aequiuocator than of a notorious liar ?

The third Similitude , vulgar and country speech by Plutarch is resembled to the country coine : now your selues cannot denie but that in all states b b Falsare monetam est crimen laesae maiestaus . Sà Ies Aphoris . lit . Falsarius . Stamping of a false coine is high treason ; and so is also clipping and impairing the Kings stamp : But Aequiuocators by their clause of reseruation clip off that part of speech , which is the image of God , the truth of the speech . Ergo guilty of higher than high treason .

The fourth similitude : Mentall Aequiuocation is not vnlike Gyges his ring , which Plato and others mention , being of that vertue , that * * Cic. Offic. l. 3. Whilest the pale of the ring was kept on the backe-siae of his hand he was visible ; but being turned into the palme of his hand he was inuisible , seeing any , & seene of none . By meanes whereof he shortly after practised adulterie with the Queene of Lydia , and murdered the King . So our Aequiuocator , when happily he shall turne his aequiuocating clause outward to manifest it in speech , he lieth open and is easily knowen for a dislo●al subiect : but when he keepeth it close in his mind , hee is imboldened to practise against his King . But the Heathen Ora●our intreating of the property of an honest man , he would haue him tried by the opportunity of Gyges ring : No good man ( saith he ) would abuse it , because honest men do not seeke meanes how they may be secretly euill , but alwaies resolue to be absolutely good . Surely this Pagan must rise vp in iudgement against this Aequiuocating generation to condemne it .

I might adde another Similitude taken from chastity ; the Fathers calling alwaies veritatem 〈◊〉 virginitatem ; and S. Augustine castitatem mentis : Verity is the ch●…y of the Soule . It may be they haue taken this from S. Iohn in the description of his * * Apoc. 14. 4. V●gines , in who●e mouth there is found no guile : as though a chast soule should abhorre as much the vse of a lie in the mouth , as a deuout Virgin would loath to staine her selfe with a knowen adulterer : such is the a●tinit betweene these deuises , that S. Paul doth range * * 1. Tim. 1. 10. w●…gers and liars in one sentence . From hence it is that the craft of Vintners in the mixing and colouring of their wines is called Adulterare , adulterating of the wine . Compare this craft of mixture of wine with your Aequiuocation , which you call Amixt proposition , and what shall you perceiue else but an artificiall adultery ? Our last argument which is belonging to this conclusion , taken from the effects of Aequiuocating , I reserue for the last in the next conclusion , because there it will be more effectuall for confirmation of both .

CHAP. XIIII .

Our second conclusion , that no maner of Aequiuocation , whether mentall or ver●all , can be vsed in an oath without sacrilegious profanation .

WE deny not but ambiguous words may sometime be vsed in common speech : for so we reade of Athanasius , who , flying by shippe the malice of the persecutor , and at last ouertaken the pursuer asked , a a Socrates , Sozem . & alij . Did not Athanasius passe this way ? Athanasius himselfe made answer , Yes , he is a little before you , if you make hast you shall soone ouertake him . The Persecutor imagining , A little before , must signifie some other shippe then that which was immediately before him , passed by Athanasius , and pursued a butter-fly .

The state of this Question from the opinion of the Aequiuocator .

b b Treatise chap. 4. This aequiuocation of ambiguous words , is to vse one word which hath diuers significations : as being asked whether a Priest be in my 〈…〉 , c c Treatise chap 7. may answer non est : vnderstanding by est , the signification of edere , and not of esse . May this kind of aequiuocating be vsed man oath ? No , not before a competent Iudge lawfully examining ▪ this were a mortall sinne . We suspect you will proue an honest man : therefore tell vs , Whom do you hold competent Iudges ? Do you esteeme any competent and fit , who are Aduersaries to your Romish profession ? d d Treatise quo supra . And this is the opinion of them all , to iudge Protestant-magistrates not fit Iudges . Vide supra . When a Magistrate shall sweare me to bring a ( Papist ) Recusant to the Assies , which is vnlawfull , yet seeing there is no other way for the Recusant to escape , then will I sweare by aequiuocation . Now you returne to your former wallow , but we must take you as we finde you .

CHAP. XV.

Our first Argument from the forme of an oath .

WE are not now to prooue that wrought to take an oath of all them that exact it , but only that whensoeuer , or to whomsoeuer we sweate , we are bound in conscience to answer directly . To shew therefore what an oath is , we will be come●ed with your Iesu●ts definitions . One defineth it a a Iuramentú est religiosa inuocatio di●… testimon● , in dict●a●…us confirmatione ●…iet , Ies Instruct . Sacerd. lib 4. cap. 20. 〈◊〉 addit , siuè explicitè siuè imp●…è . A religious inuocation ( whether it be expresly , or implicatiuely ) of God , as witnesse of our speech . Another , b b Est religionis officium & opus quo credimus Deum totius ve●…atis autorem esle , quinee decipivnquā possit , nec alios 〈◊〉 e●e : sicut ad Heb. 4. Hac agitur religio●…n . ●…homines , Deum ve●●atis tes●e●ad habent . & ●j●●…an●… fide habere impium & nefarium sit . It is a dutifull act of religion , whereby we professe God to be the authour of all trueth ; who can neither deceiue , nor be deceiued . Hence may we reason thus : The competencie of God , by whom we sweare , maketh euery one competent Iudges and hearers , to whom we sweare : but by swearing by God , whom we can not deceiue , we religiously protest that we in swearing intend not to deceiue . Ergo our deceitful aequiuocating is a profanation of the religious worship of God .

The Maior is true , for that our Sauiour in auouching trueth , held Pilate a competent Iudge , although he did not Iuridicè , but falsly proceed . S. Paul in his cause appealed to Caesars tribunall seat , who was a Pagan . Iacob did couenant with Laban an Idolater : and the maid , to whom S. Peter swore , was competent enough to heare a true oath , if he had been as ready to sweare truly : and yet neither the maid , not that Iudge did proceed turidice ; for she was no lawfull Examiner , and he was a partiall Iudge .

A Confirmation of the former argument from the authority of the Fathers .

To know in what sense of words we must take any oath , the doctrine of Isidore is infallible : c c Quacunque arte verboru quis iuret , Deus tamen , qui conscientiae testis est , ita accipit sicut is , cui iuratur , intelligit . Isidor . lib. 2. de su●… . 13. Though man vse neuer so great art and cunning in swearing , yet God doth value the oath according to the sense of him , to whom the oath is made . Hereby your art of Aequiuocating is quite excluded , which teacheth to vse that signification and sense which is most contrary to his vnderstanding to whom wee swearè . To know what is the necessity of performance of a lawful oath , the rule of S. Hierome is most diuine ; which is this : d d In iuramento sides seruahda est , nec cōside●a●dū est cui , sed per quem iu●●●eris . Hieror . ●n Ezeth 17. Faith must be kept in an oath , because we must not regard to whom ; ( man ) ; but ( God ) by whom we haue sworne . And thus also your cousenage of falsifying your oath is likewise excluded . In both these testimonies we see the Iurer is taught alwayes in swearing to man to fix his eyes vpon God ; and his omnipotent iustice , by whom I sweare , maketh euery man , to whom I sweare , a competent hea●er ; therefore chargeth me to sweare directly , euidently condemning our Aequiuocatours , who make a Protestant-magistrate competent to take their oath , but holde him incompetent to take their sincere and direct oath : as though man only , and not also God , did take our oath . Impious ; for so sacred a thing is an oath , that e e Mu●i falluntur ( inquit Augussinus ) vt putent , quia nihil est per quod iurant , ideo se non ●…ine periurij ener● : pro●●us per●● us es , quit per id , quod sinc um non putas , fal●um iuras as , si tu●●hum sanctum non putas , sanctum tamen illum putat cui iurat . Genesius in suo Theoph. cap. 6. Though a man should sweare by a thing , in his own opinion vnholy , which is holy in the opinion of him to● hom he sweareth ; this man swearing falsley is periured . Still we see , that though an oath appeare outwardly , * * Exod. 3. but as a flame in the hush , yet God is in this flame , therefore we must put off the shooes of our feet , that is our carnall affections ; for Gods name , the foundation & ground of an oth , is holy ground .

A Confirmation of the former argument from their ancient Schoole .

These our Aequiuocators do by their new subtleties foolifie the honest simplicity of their ancient Schoole : the two eyes whereof Lombard and Aquinas law clearely in this kind of swearing an homble prosanation of the sacred name of almighty God . f f Qui calliditate vtitur in iuramento , duplicitèr est reus , ●u●a & nomen Dei in vanum sumit , & proximum dolo capit . Lombard . lib. 3. dist. 39. lit . 〈◊〉 . Whosoeuer ( sayth Lombard ) doth vse craft o● sub●… in an oath , doth defil● his conscience with a double guilt ; he both deceiueth his neighbour , and also taketh the name of God in vaine . Therefore Aquinas doth expresly conclude : g g Si Iudex hoc exquirat , quod non potest secundùm ordinem i●ris , non tenetur accusatus respondere , sed potest vel per appellationem , vel aliter licet subterfugere ; mendacium autem dicere non licet . Et paulò post . Falsitatem autem proponere nullo casu alicui licet , neque etiam aliquem dolum vel fraudem adhibere , quia fraus & dolus vim mendacij habet , & hoc est se calumniosè defendere . Aquinas 2. 2. q. 69. art. 1. & arg. 2. If a Iudge ( sayth he ) shal require any thing , which he cannot ( the point in question ) by order of law , the party accused is not bound to answer , but either by appeale , or some other maner of m●anes may deliuer himselfe : but in no case may he tell a lie , or vse falshood , no nor any kinde of craft or deceit , for this is to answer , &c. I may from Thomas insult vpon our Aequiuocatours in the words of their owne Genesius ; h h Potuitnè Thomas apertius damnare istorum sententiam , qui docent fas esse Reo crimen verum sibi intentum arte verborum inficiari ? Genesius in Theoph. cap. 18. Could Thomas more plainly denie their opinion , who teach the guiltie person to auoid a true accusation by words of guile and deceit ?

CHAP. XVI .

The second Argument taken from the end of an oath , as it is affirmed in Scripture .

HEb. 4. An oath is for confirmation , to make an end of all contention . This Maior is Scripture . ( Minor . ) But in an aequiuocating oath there is neither beginning of confirmation , nor end of contention . Ergo it is a vaine and sacrilegious oath .

The Minor proued out of that mouth of the Aequiuocatour .

a a Treatise of Aequiuocas . chap. 10. For further direction of the partie examined , let him admit the oth with a secret intention of aequiuocation , & if he be more vrged to sweare without aequiuocating , let him sweare that also ( namely that he doth not aequiuocate ) but with the forsaid intention of aequiuocation . What should the Disciple of Christ say to this Doctour , though he sate in Peters chaire ? What , but as our Lord Christ taught by his example , who in the fauourable temptation to do euill for security of his life , answered , * * Math. 16. 23 Get thee behind me Satan : for this is the mouth of Satan , to sweare by an aequiuocation . We do not aequiuocate ; and vrged againe to sweare this without aequiuocation , to sweare aequiuocatingly we doe not aequiuocate . &c. Heere is contention without end , by this aequiuocation which is as bottomlesse as the pit of hell .

A confirmation of this former Argument from the Iesuite Azorius .

b b Azorius Iesuita qu● supra . Whosoeuer ( saith your Azorius ) is rightly catechized in this point of religion concerning an oath , calleth God to witnesse of the truth , and therefore it is an heathenish impiety not to beleeue Christians thus swearing . Say now , you Aequiuocators , who sweare Sophistically , turning * * Supra . esse into edere , thereby to deceiue your hearer ; Is he to whom you sweare bound to beleeue you ? this were hard , for so a Christian shuld be bound to be deceiued : may he lawfully suspect you ? then this your doctrine , which taketh away the consecrated vse of an oth , which is , for Confirmation of speech , is plainly Antichristian .

CHAP. XVII .

The third Argument , à minori , as the Logicians terme it , from the lesse to the more .

MAior. ) That doctrine which is lesse honest then the doctrine of Pagans , is intolerable among Christians : ( Minor ) but Iesuiticall aequiuocating is lesse honest than the doctrine of Infidels and Pagans . Ergo , ought to be esteemed abhominable among Christians . The Maior is taught by our Sauiour : * * Matth. 5. 20. Except your righteousnesse exceed the righteousnesse of the Scribes and Pharisies , you shall not enter , &c. shewing where there is more knowledge of Christ , there the profession must be more honest . And more expresly S. Paul : * * 1. Cor. 5. 1. There is such fornication among you , as is not among the Heathen . Concluding that it is blasphemy against God for a Christian to be more vile in life than a Pagan . The Minor prooued : for your Iesuite Sà doth tell vs , that there be but a a Iurans redire in carcerem tenetur ( nisi esset ini● ; detentus ) etiam cùm periculo vitae ; quidam etiam ad iniustum carcerem redeundum ●iunt , nisi iuramentum relaxetur per Episcopum . Eman. Sa. Ies. Aphor. T●t . Iuramentum . Some of you , who thinke that a Prisoner vniustly detained vpon his oath is bound to returne , except he be absolued from his oath by a Bishop . This in an oath without aequiuocation : but our Aequiuocators thinke their Aequiuocation in making an oath better , and of more power than any Bishop to free them from periurie in an oath ; esteeming it as good as no oath wherein they vse their Reseruation : when as yet the very Infidels in respect of their naturall knowledge of God , kept better fidelity among men .

An Example of the Pagans fidelity out of Tullie .

b b Vnus ex decem illis captiuis , &c. Cicero Offic. lib. 3. §. Regulus . There was a man , who together with nine other prisoners being dismissed out of the prison of Carthage , vpon his oath , that he within a prefixed time should returne againe : assoone as he was out of prison , he returned as though he had forgot some thing , by and by departeth home to Rome , where he stayed beyond the time appointed , answering that he was freed from his oath . See now the opinion of his owne countreyman concerning this aequiuocation of Returne ; c c Non re & è , fraus enim distringit , non dissoluit periurium : Itaque decreuit Senatus vt ille veteranus & callidus vinctus ad Anni balem duceretur . Cicero quo supra . Non rectè ( sayth Tully ) this was not well done : for craft in an oath doth not lessen but make the periury more heinous : wherfore the graue Senators of Rome sent this cousening mate bound , with cords , againe to the prison of Annibal their enemie , from whom he had escaped . d d Qui verò dcunt nullam esse sidem , quae Infideli data sit , videant ne quaeratur latebra periurio ; quiduis enim potiùs argutè excusari possit quam iusiurandu : quantum enim mali excidit ex ipsa fraude ? Cic. ibid. But some obiect , That we are not bound to keepe faith with them that are * * These Poeni , or Carthaginians , whom Tully calleth Infidels , were of all men in the world most perfidious , so that they came into a prouerbe , [ Punica fides ] The Carthaginians faith , which was as if one should haue said Falshood : and if any , then this people was incompetent to challenge trueth in an oath . faithlesse : ô let them take heed , this ( such is our Aequiuocators obiection of a Iudge incompetent ) is but to seeke a lurking hole for periurie : whereas we may excuse subtletie in any thing rather than in an oath , wherein euen the least deceit is a great mischiefe . This was the honestie of the ancient Heathenish Rome , which must rise vp in iudgement against this present Rome to condemne it , which hath changed that faithfull Romanam in Punicam fidem .

CHAP. XVIII .

The fourth Argument , à paribus .

SOcrates reporteth this story of Arius , the arch-heretike , d d Imperator Arium ad iu●iurandum adegit , ille id quoque simulatè & fallacitèr praest●tit : ●ucata verò ratio , quâ ad fraudem in subscribendo vsus est , sicut audiui , huiusmodi fuit ; Arius suam ipsius opinionem in charta habebat , eamque sub ala gestat , iurat se verè & ex animo sentire , quemadmodum scripserat . Socrates lib. 〈◊〉 . hist. cap. 38. who being compelled by the holy Emperour Constantine to deliuer his subscription to the Councell of Nice , and to auouch his integritie by an oath , he vsed this art and sleight : his owne ( hereticall ) opinion he closely kept vnder his left arme , and then swore ( laying his hand vpon his left side ) that he so beleeued as he had written . What can be the difference betwixt the oath of our Aequiuocators , and of this blasphemous Arius ? He kept secret his aequiuocation vnder the hollow of his arme , but these conceale theirs in the hollow of their hearts .

An Obiection remoued .

You peraduenture will insist and say , that Arius did aequiuocate in the cause of faith , which all Christians holde a thing most abominable : but first know , that although the matter of deceitfull swearing may make the deceit to be more wicked , yet it can not make the wickednesse to be more deceitfull ; for euery thing is defined by his forme , and not by his matter , Vero nihil verius , and so on the contrary : for example , to say the mouse worried a cat , and to say adulterie is no sinne , this latter is not the greater lie ; yet by reason of the matter is the greater sinne , because besides the wickednesse of lying , it doth iustifie ( another wickednesse ) adulterie . Now to the matter .

You will aequiuocate in the question concerning your Priesthood , saying and swearing against your knowledge that you are no Priest , by some secret reseruation of minde ; as according to the example of one of your fellowes , I am no Priest ; meaning , No Priest [ Apollonis ] : as though an aequiuocating Priest can consort with any better than with those Satanicall Priests of the Pagan god Apollo . For all their answers ( as euery scholar knoweth ) from their Oracles was by Amphibologies and Aequiuocations . Of many , be you contented with this one . Pyrrhus his question to that Oracle was ; Whether he should giue an ouerthrow to the Romans , or no : the answer of the Oracle was this : Aio te Aetacidi Romanos vincere posse ; That is to say , I say that Pyrrhus the Romans may ouercome . So whether the Romans ( which after was true ) should ouercome Pyrrhus , or Pyrrhus ( which was false ) should conquer the Romans , the aequiuocating Oracle might be found to haue sayd trueth . It is recorded by * * Euseb. Prapar . Euang. Eusebius , that at the birth of Christ all those diuellish aequiuocating Oracles were put to silence : when the last which spoke , being asked Why they now ceased to giue answers ; returned this last answer ; 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Because the Hebrew babe ( meaning Christ ) is borne . So doubtlesse , in what heart soeuer there is the regenerating spirit of Christ , there the aequiuocating spirit of Delphos doth wax dumbe .

Now you holde , that your Priesthood is conferred vpon you by a Sacrament of Ordination ; and that b b Bellar. lib. 2. de effect . Sacram . in genere . Ex opere operato it doth impresse in your soules Charactêrem indelebilem , that is , a marke neuer to be blotted out . c c Ordo praestat caeteris omnib' quoad hoc , quia constituit homines in gradu sublimiori , quàm sunt caeteri Christiani . Bellar. quo supra cap. 28. §. Ordo . By the power of that Sacrament of Order , which heerein ( say you ) excelleth all other Sacraments , that it aduanceth Priests a degree aboue all other Christians . The end thereof you beleeue is Tooffer sacrifice for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead . Yet do you aequiuocatingly denie your Priesthood sealed vnto you by a Sacrament belonging to faith . And what matter can there be wherein such a Priest will not aequiuocate , who doth aequiuocate concerning his Priesthood ? But we haue not so learned Christ , but defend that it is essentiall to a Christian , whensoeuer or to whomsoeuer he sweareth , to vse simplicitie , and not to sophisticate : for there is a double faith in the Iurer to be tendred ; the first is faith to the man , to whom he sweareth , which we call fideline : the other is our faith in God , by whom he sweareth , to beleeue that he is omnipotently wise , to discerne whether my words be true according to their signification , and omnipotently iust to take vengeance vpon me , if I do dissemble . The first faith is violated by aequiuocating ; for it is therefore interpreted to be called d d Cic. in Offic. lib. 1. & S. August . lib. de Mendacio . cap. 20. Fides , quia fit quod dicitur , that is , The thing is , as it is sayd to be . And the dissemble● in this kinde , Tullie ( as the golden mouth of all reasonable men ) calleth e e Speaking of the Poeni , who vsed to falsifie their faith with men . Infidelem , An Infidell . So , likewise , your faith in God is impeached , for how shall I call God to acknowledge those words to be true in that sense which I ought to speake them in , wherein I know them to be false ?

CHAP. XIX .

This doctrine concerning Aequiuocating must in the last place be discussed both pro , and contra in the effects .

The Aequiuocator obiecteth .

a a Treatise supra . WHen a Protestant Magistrate shall sweare me to bring in a Papist Recusant to the Assises , when there is no way for the Recusant to escape , I will sweare by aequiuccation .

The Answer .

Thinkest thou it vnlawfull to bring a Recusant to the Assises ? then is it also vnlawfull to sweare that thou wilt bring him ; for this is one essentiall property which God challengeth by his Prophet , that where there is Iusiurandum , Ius should go before iurandum : and therfore the Prophet saith , b b Iurabis viuit Dominus in veritate , in iudicio , & iustitia . ler. 4. Iurabis in iustitia ; Thou shalt sweare in iustice : c c Iudicio caret ●…ramentum incautum , veritate mendax , iustitia iniquum & illicitum . Aquinas . That is ( to admit your owne Aquinas for expositour ) not to sweare any thing that is vniust . But notwithstanding this direct command [ Thou shalt sweare ] wilt thou sweare ? Then mayst thou not sweare by aequiuocation , for that doth wound the very soule of an oath , which is simple Truth : but verball aequiuocation taketh away the necessary simplicity of an oath , because therein is dissimulation . If therefore the thing be vnlawfull thou must not sweare , no not truth , though thou be vrged ; if thou wilt sweare , yet know thou art not vrged to sweare an vntruth .

The second Obiection is popular , ( supposing Aequiuocation to be a lie ) thus :

d d Est mendacium triplex ; perniciosum , officiosum , iocosum● per●…ciosum est in damnum alicuius ; officiosum quod est in al●… vulitatem ; iocosum quod nec in dettimentum nec vtilitatem al●cu●us est . Dicimus omne mendacium esse quidem peccatum , & cùm sit in turamento , omne mendacium esse peccatum mortale ; sine iuramento , officiôsum autem & iocosum esse veniale peccatum . Tollet . les . Instruct . Sacerd lib. de septem peccat . cap. 54. There are three kinds of lies ( that one Iesuite may speake for all his fellowes ) one is a pernicious and hurtfull lie , which turneth to the hurt of another ; the second is an officious and charitable lie , which is for the good of another ; the third is but a iesting 〈◊〉 , whereby no man is either helped or hurt . Of these we define thus , that euery one of these vsed in an oath is a mortall sin ; considered without an oath , the pernicious is only a mortall sinne ; the officious and ●esting are but veniall .

The Answer .

I am not ignorant that the vse of this distinction of mortall and veniall , in the comparison of sinnes , is frequent in the Fathers , but as different from you in sense , as they be consonant in termes : for they neuer valued any sinne so veniall in his owne nature , as not to deserue of it selfe an infinite eternall torment : for they alwaies taught that euery sinne being a transgression of an eternall law of the infinitely iust God , doth challenge an infinit punishment , & so to be accounted mortall : and yet not therefore equall , except you will say that theft and murder and blasphemy against God be therefore equall , because they be equally mortall : which I thinke you will not . But when they consider man in the state of Grace , they taught that the sinnes of humane infirmity in a man regenerate are not rigorously exacted : and in this sense are called veniall . Notwithstanding I dare affirm , that of these kinds of sinnes which you call veniall , there is not one but being done vpon presumption , it is damnable & equall with your mortall : As thus ; suppose your officious lie be vnto the examined veniall , because he was instantly surprised ( as it were ) with a sudden passion , and not able to know how to resolue , which I call infirmity : yet if he had ●●ed presumptuously , that is , beene of this resolution , that whensoeuer such a case should happen , his purpose was to lie , this vnto that man had beene a sinne grieuously mortall : yet this manner of resolution in like case is your generall doctrine , and practise . Therefore we must shew that

Euery Officious lie , for what good intent soeuer it be , resolutely done , whether in , or without an oath , is damnable in it selfe , and ought to be auoided of all Christians .

Your practise in the popular opinion is iustified in these respects ; We doe it for a good end , as to secure our selues , or a Priest ; and for the Catholike cause , lest holy Priesthood might be defamed , and our Catholike faith blasphemed . Haue you sayd ? Then see , I pray you , how much Christian simplicitie doth abhorre this infatuation ? For holy Fathers will not allow any lie ( the adultery of the soule ) no not for e e Non ad tuendam pudicitiam , mult● enim mag●s custodienda est a●… castitas , quae m●o mendacio , quam ea , quae aliena libidine violatur . August . de M●…ac . cap 20. the defence of Chastity ; nay not for f f Non ad seruandam alterius vitam corporalem . August . ibid cap. 17. & 18. & Greg. Pent. supra . preseruation of a mans bodilie life ; nay not for the g g Non ad lucrandam salutem hominis aeternam . August . quo supra , cap. 20. winning of a mans soule ; nay , no euill may be done , ( as your Acosta saith well ) h h Non ad malum faciendum , vt omnes Barbari Christi fidem amplectantur . Acost . Ies. desalut . Ind. lib. 2. cap. 2. not for the gaining of many thousand Infidels to the faith . So pretious a thing is Truth , vnto truely Christian soules .

Now because by experience in reading your best authors I haue obserued that the Romish Church hath beene bold often to publish to the world lying Reuelations , lying Miracles , lying Priuiledges , lying Legends , and Stories , Slanders , and other lying Reports : All which I am as able particularly to shew as to name , and would also if it were not impertinent in this Treatise ; and it may be some moderate answerer , will by someidle Reioinder heereafter extort them : Seeing also that your Superiors both secular and Iesuitical haue autorised this art of lying , and that all such conceits are esteemed with them but as piae fraudes , godly deceits : as though the euill of them [ Deceit ] were veniall , and not so only , but because it is mixed with [ Godly ] that is , [ with a good intent ] it becommeth also meritorious :

I must entreat patience of the gentle Reader , to peruse a Christian reason , able to ouerthrow a thousand such Antichristian and heathenish profanations . For it is written Rom. 13. 7. If the verity of God haue more abounded through my lie vnto his glory , why do we not euill that good may come thereof ? as some affirme we do say , whose damnation is iust . The argument of the Apostle is this : though it be most true in the verity of God , that mans vnrighteousnesse , ( as for example a lie ) doth redound to the glory of Gods grace in pardoning of the same vnrighteousnesse of man by Iesus Christ , according to that verity of the Gospell of remission of sin : yet God forbid that any man should therfore multiply vnrighteousnesse in sinning ( as for example lying ) that Gods glorie may be magnified in forgiuing ! Shewing that it were blasphemie to teach that it is lawfull for any to lie , although it would establish and aduance the glorie of God in that wherein * * God so loued the world that he gaue his only begotten sonne . Ioh. 3. 16. God is most glorified , euen the glory of his grace in pardoning of sinne by Christ Iesus . And therefore the Romish godlesse deceits , must be bundled vp with those condemned i i Coloss. 2. 23. Wilworshippes , k k Iud. 8. 27. Gedeons Ephod , l l 1. Sam. 15. 21. Sauls sacrifice , m m 2. Sam. 6. 6. Vza his supporting of the arke , n n 1. Reg. 12. 32. Ieroboams altars , o o 1. Tim. 1. 13. & 2. Tim. 1. 3. Pauls persecuting of Gods Saints , yea the crucifying of p p Act. 3. 17. Christ the sonne of God ( all which notwithstanding their pretended good intents ) are subiect to the same iust condemnation . And why ? holy Iob hath debated this matter long ago , q q Iob. 13. vers. 7. 8. 9. 10. Will ye talke deceitfully ( saith he ) for Gods cause , or will you accept his person ? Will you make a lie for him , as one lieth for a man ? he will surely reproue you . Doubtlesse ; because God is truth : but no man will defend any thing , no not a lie , but he wil defend it in the name of truth : for who will say I lie ; therfore it is true ? Can then any without blasphemy defend the cause of the God of all iustice and truth with a lie ?

CHAP. XX.

The Protestants last Argument against A●quiuocation , from the effects .

The Confirmation of both our former Conclusions .

The effects be of foure kinds : It 1. Dissolueth the naturall policie of all kingdomes . 2. Challengeth all Romish Priests and their adherents in this kingdome to the racke . 3. Gaineth the infamie of deceit and lying vpon the professed Aequiuocators . 4. Begetteth scandall to soules , blasphemies against Christ in the profession of the holy faith .

The first .

THe last anchor that man can cast for any security in this tumultuous and tempestuous world , in any Common-wealth , is an oath : for mans name , goods , lands , and life , whensoeuer they be formally called in question , doe all in the end depend vpon the presumption of the testimony of witnesses in the trueth of their oath ; and in one word , for the a a Heb. 4. end of all contentions , the last linke of confirmation , is ordeined an oath . For preseruation therefore of the integritie of an oath , all Nations haue prouided punishments for all such as wilfully transgresse therein ; some countries adiudging the periured to be whipped ; others to be hanged ; others to be slit in the nose ; others to be branded in the forhead : and the iudiciall law of God doth command b b Deut. 19. legem talionis ; that euery false witnesse should suffer that euill or losse , which by his false swearing he would haue brought vpon another ; eye for eye , hand for hand , life for life . And in all the kingdomes of the world , from all generations , the offence in an oath is called Periurie ; * * Iesuits supra . which is a lie in an oath . But if the secret intention might excuse from lying , then could neuer any haue beene iustly condemned for periury or false witnesse . Thus the false witnesses suborned against c c 1. King . 21. Naboth , the false witnesses against chaste d d Hist. of Susanna . Susanna , the witnesses against e e Matt. 26. 60. Christ the iust one , euen the only iust , might each one haue iustified themselues , saying , We spoke trueth , for we did aequiuocate . And thus all humane lawes against periury must haue beene abolished .

The second effect which must moue the Aequiuocators to giue ouer this art , is extremity against their owne bodies .

Because they , who by their aequiuocating do professe to conceale most desperate treasons , till they come to be tortured , do necessarily challenge the racke : but all Romish Priests and their disciples are instructed not to reueale any of their sect to be guilty of such practises , till they be inforced by the torture : for thus your Cardinall in his instructions of Priests , hath determined , f f Quandò aliquis in tortura positus reuelat alterius peccatum verè , quandò non interrogatur iuridicè , non peccat : ratio , quia nullus tenetur cum tanto suo detrimento conseruare famam alterius , occultando crimen commissum illius . Tol●et . les . & Cardin. lib. 5. Instruct . Sac. cap. 66. When any ( sayth he ) is put vpon the racke , and doth truly reueale the crime of another , although he be not examined iuridicè , iustly , and according to the order of law ; yet therein he doth not sinne , because none is bound , vpon so great bodily harme to himselfe , to preserue the good name of another , by concealing his offence . Therefore when you make all Protestant-magistrates incompetent , with whom you may vse aequiuocation till you come to be tortured , what do you els but teach them , that your only competent Iudge and Examiner must be a Racke ?

The third is infamie against the Aequiuocators good name and faith among men .

Your doctrine is , that g g The Treatise . Vide supra . answering your incompetent magistrate by aequiuocation ; if he shall further aske whether you doe not aequiuocate , to answer , No ; but with another aequiuocation : If againe , in his ielousie , he vrge whether this third time you doe not aequiuocate ; then the third time also to say , No , but with another secret aequiuocation ; and so as often as he shall aske the like : likewise by aequiuocating to say you doe not aequiuocate . This is that monster which I called Hydra , which , as Poets faine , Hercules did impugne ; in the which as often as one head was strucke off , immediatly there sprung vp another ; signifying an endlesse businesse . It will now be requisite that we heare what our Moderate Answerer would say in the behalfe of his dissolute Treatise : h h The Moderate Answerer in the conclusion of his booke . §. And if &c. We haue ( most mercifull Soueraigne ) in the sincerity of our soules , without ali aequiuocation or doubtfull sense , purged our selues of those opinions or practises of rebellion obiected vnto vs . Say you so ? without all aequiuocation ? How shall his Maiesty be perswaded that these words without all aequiuocation are not spoken in some doubtfull sense and aequiuocation ? How can you free your selfe from this ielousie , seeing your doctrine is in protestation of not aequiuocating to aequiuocate ? You may now ges●e what will be the effect of this your Art ; euen that , which is the due reward of a liar : namely , that seeing in his protestations and oathes , when he should say trueth , he will dis●emble , he may not be beleeued , when sometime he sayth trueth .

The last effect is scandall against mens soules , and blasphemy against God .

Seeing that all Christians be exhorted , i i Coloss. 4. 5. To walke warily towards them that are without , ( meaning Infidels ) to the end k k 1. Pet. 2. 12. That they which speake euill of you , 〈…〉 of euill doers , may by their good workes which they shall see , glorisie God in the day ( that is , when God shall haue mercy to call Infidels to the faith ) of visitation . Shewing that a wicked life in the professor of faith doth hinder vnbeleeuers from the faith .

Secondly , euery Christian is admonished l l 1. Thess. 5. 22. To abstaine from all [ 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ] shew or apparance of euill : the reason is expressed in the Apostles exhortation to Christian seruants , challenging of them subiection to their Heathen-masters , m m Tit. 2. 5. That the doctrine of God be not blasphemed , or euill spoken of : and to the same end he chargeth all Christian wiues to be chast and obedient to their Infidell husbands : n n 1. Tim. 1. 6. That the word of God be not blasphemed : shewing that the wickednesse of a wicked professor ( by mans blindnesse ) edoundeth vnto the blasphemy of the godly profe●…on . But in your Aequiuocating by a clause reserued and concealed in your thought , ( which God onely , o o Psal. 7. 10. The only searcher of the heart seeth ) no man can discerne in your speech any thing but apparance of damnable lying . Therefore not only Pagans by this scandall shall continue in infidelity , but the glorious name of Christ and his true religion , shall suffer blasphemie : and if this do follow vpon the examples of wicked seruants , wicked wiues , wicked children ; how much more by the principal professors , wicked Priests ?

Neither this onely , but by this doctrine the Gospell of Christ , in the opinion of all Pagans , will be more iustly condemned , when the Pagan shall not onely examine the most godly Christian religion by a wicked Professour , as it were a right rule by a crooked example , or Christ by Iudas ( which is wicked ) but as the rule in it selfe , that is , the Religion in his moral truth , & find that this your doctrine of aequiuocation is non solum doctrina mendax , verum-etiam mendacij ; not only a lying doctrine , but a doctrine of lying . What can this worke in the Turks & all Pagans at this day , but obstinacy in their infidelity , and blasphemy of that faith , which is the only life of soules ? Especially seeing I may as iustly say concerning the Aequiuocation of your contagious Romists , as the blessed Apostle writ of the incestuous among the Corinthians : p p 1. Cor. 5. 1. I heare that there is such fornication among you , as is not once named among the Heathen .

This our Apostolicall Defence of Protestants I will conclude from Protestations of the Apostle .

The blessed Apostle of the Genules , and elect vessell of grace , S. Paul , when he would auouch his inward zeale for the saluation of soules , he protesteth thus ; q q Rom. 9. 1. I say the truth and lie not , my conscience bearing me witnesse that I haue continuall sorrow of hart for you . And againe , r r 2. Cor. 11. 31. God the father of our Lord Iesus Christ knoweth that I lie not . Secondly , to perswade to others the authority of his Apostleship , he protesteth thus ; s s 1. Tim. 2. 7. Whereunto I am ordained an Apostle ; I speake the truth in Christ , and lie not , euen a Teacher of the Gentiles . And againe , t t Galat. 1. 20. This that I write vnto you , behold I witnesse before God and lie not . He would then confirme vnto the minds of the Romans , Corinthians , Galathians the sincerity both of his affection and function by the force of an oath ; calling God to witnesse to his words , as directly proceeding from his conscience ; otherwise these Conuerts might haue replied vpon the Apostle thus ; We heare of a doctrine of Aequiuocating , which teacheth that you , by a secret clause in your mind , may alter the sense of words in your vnderstanding ; differing from the sense which outwardly they signifie , and which only we can possibly vnderstand . How can you then perswade vs in this sense , that , you are an Apostle , seeing you professe a reseruation of a contrary sense , which may signifie you are no Apostle ? Would you perswade vs to beleeue that by that your protestation , which you teach we need not beleeue by your reseruation ? therefore it will be to no end to perswade vs to beleeue you in that wherein we may be deceiued . Otherwise , if by the outward sense you may confirme vs that you doe not lie , the contrary aequiuocating sense , doubtlesse , must be accounted a plaine lie . And yet our Aequiuocators haue made as strong protestations to deny their Priesthood , as euer S. Paul did to confirme his Apostleship ; these being as certainly no true Priests , as he was truely an Apostle .

To seale this truth by a memorable example of antiquity , reported by S. Hierome as a mirror of Christian simplicitie , u u De muliere septies ●cta , Ad Innocentium : E●mulieri maritus crimen adulterij impegerat , & cum eculeus corpus extenderat , oculis in coelum erectis , Tu Domine Iesu testis es , qui serutator es renum , non ideo me negare velle nè peream , sed ideò men●… nolle nè peccem . Hieron . Tom. 1. Of a wife accused of her husband , an● tortured to draw out a confession of guilt : but she lifting vp her eyes to heauen , sayd , Thou Lord Iesu , who searchest the heart and reines , art witnesse that I do not denie truth for feare of death , but therefore refuse to lie for feare of sinne . Me thinke I see Tollet with other Iesuits standing by beholding this spectacle , and saying ( * * Tollet . Ies. Instruct . Sacerd. lib. 4 cap. 21. & 22. for he did instruct their Catholike adulterous wife to aequi●ocate ) Alas good woman ! it pitieth me to see you abide such torment only for want of wit ; and then whispering her in the ●are , giueth her this ghostly counsell : Thou mayest vse a secret abstracted reseruation in thy minde , and so both escape torture and auoid a lie . These be Iesuits , the new Theologicall Alchymists of our time , able to abstract Aurum ex carbone , Truth out of a lie : who must be admired of the world as the Monopolists of all Arts , whereas no Art is singular in them but this Aequiuocation . In respect whereof I may say of them , as Tully spoke of the Soothsayers of his time : Miror si non riserit Haruspex , cùm Haruspicem viderit ; I maruell how our Aequiuocatours doe not laugh , when they beholde one another . But heere is the difference of the spirit of wit , and the spirit of grace : this with that woman may looke vp to heauen and call Iesus to witnesse , when he that is in heauen , shall looke vpon them and haue them in derision .

Thus haue I discussed of these Antichristian doctrines of lying and treason ; the last triall of both which we referre to the iudgement of God , not as wood or straw , subiect to their fancied Purgatory fire of triall ; but as pitch and tarre , sulphure , and powder reserued for the vnquenchable fire of hell ; From whence our Lord Iesus preserue vs and them , to the glory of his sauing grace .

Gloria Deo .

ERRATVM : In the third part , Pag. 40. lin. 25. for 100. reade 1000.

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