A iust and moderate answer to a most iniurious, and slaunderous pamphlet, intituled, An exact discouery of Romish doctrine in case of conspiracie and rebellion Wherein the innocency of Catholike religion is proued, and euery obiection returned vpon the Protestant accuser, and his owne profession. With licence of superior. Broughton, Richard. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A07811 of text S112914 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 18188). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 161 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 32 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A07811 STC 18188 ESTC S112914 99848155 99848155 13233 2240931306

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 Early English books online text creation partnership. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A07811) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 13233) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1249:7) A iust and moderate answer to a most iniurious, and slaunderous pamphlet, intituled, An exact discouery of Romish doctrine in case of conspiracie and rebellion Wherein the innocency of Catholike religion is proued, and euery obiection returned vpon the Protestant accuser, and his owne profession. With licence of superior. Broughton, Richard. [64] p. Printed by the English secret press, [England : 1606] By Richard Broughton. A reply to the work by Thomas Morton. Imprint from STC. Signatures: A² a² B-P² . Running title reads: An answer to the supposed Discouery. With a final errata leaf. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. eng Morton, Thomas, 1564-1659. -- Exact discoverie of Romish doctrine in the case of conspiracie and rebellion, by pregnant observations -- Early works to 1800. Catholics -- England -- Early works to 1800. Protestantism -- Controversial literature -- Early works to 1800. eebo A iust and moderate answer to a most iniurious, and slaunderous pamphlet, intituled, An exact discouery of Romish doctrine in case of conspiracie and Broughton, Richard 1606 64 28007 593 0 0 0 0 0 211.73 F The rate of 211.73 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the F category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2013-01 Assigned for keying and markup 2013-02 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2013-06 Sampled and proofread 2013-06 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2014-03 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

A iust and moderate Answer To a most iniurious , and slaunderous Pamphlet , intituled , An exact Discouery of Romish doctrine in case of Conspiracie and Rebellion .

Wherein the innocency of Catholike religion is proued , and euery obiection returned vpon the Protestant Accuser , and his owne profession .

Maltese cross
Psal. 57. vers. 1.

Si veré vtique , Iustitiam loquimini : recta iudicate filij hominum .

With licence of Superior .
TO THE MOST EXCELLENT and mightie Prince , our gratious and dread Soueraigne , IAMES , by the grace of God , King of great Brittaine , France and Ireland , defender of the faith .

TWo thinges ( most Gratious Soueraigne ) among the rest of chi●fest regard , in terrene and humane affaires , were euer apprised at the highest value : Life , the present being : Fame and Reputation , the beautie and splendor theereof : The first giuing esse , aft●r non esse , to the greatest earthlie Creature , the other maintaining in some sorte , a per●ptuall life , and glorious liuing , when we be dead .

Therefore , by how much the possessors of those dignities , be more popular , publique , and greater in number , State , or preeminence : ●y so many degrees , vnworthily and trecherouslie to be depriued of them , is more iniurious , guil●ie of wickednesse , and obnoxious to Restitution .

Concerning the former ; The late intended Conspiracy against the life of your Royall Maiestie , ( the Life , Vnion , Rule , and Direction to these vnited Kingdomes ) so many Nobles , and Persons of esteeme , was so heinous impiety , that nothing which is holy can make it Legitimate ; no pretence of Religion can be alleadged , to excuse it : God and heauen condemne it , Men and earth detest it : Innocents bewaile it , the Nocent and vnhappie Delinquents themselues , perceiuing how their Religion reproueth it , in repentance haue lamented it : Protestants exclaime against it , and your dutifull , Religious , and learned Catholikes , Priests , and others , which haue endured most for their profession , hold it in greatest horror , and make it a subiect of their grieuous sorrow , that any of their profession should attempt so barbarous and vnnaturall cruelty , or practise any disobedience at all to your Highnesse .

And will sweare , protest , promise , and performe to your Maiesty , whatsoeuer Loyaltie , Obedience , and dutie is due from a subiect to his Temporall Prince , by the word of God , lawe of Nature , or hath be●ne vsed by the subiects of this Kingdome , to any your P●ogenito●s Christian , from the first to the last : acknowledge and rend●r to your honorable Counsaile , and all Magistrat●s in ciui●l causes , so much Honor , Reuerence and Submission , and to all other Protestant subiects , like amitie and neighbourlie affection , as if they were of the same Religion , which we pr●fesse .

Concerning the second , of publike reproache , and defamation , ( most worthy Prince ) if it only concerned the Catholikes of this Nation , although it be no easie question to proue , that men in such matters , and at such times , are masters of their fame : yet they could be content to burie it in their graue of obliuion with so many miseri●s which they haue long susteined , for their holy faith ; and to say with the Apostle , Maledicimur et benedicimus , persecutionem patimur et sustinemu● , blasphemamur et obsecramus : but when the Purgamenta huius mundi , and omnium peripsema , must be made the badge of all maintainers of that worshippe , and all be stiled s●ditious and traiterous Persons , quite contrarie to your Highnesse often Assertions , and publique Proclamations ; That all Catholike subiects to all forraigne Princes , your Confederates , must weare that Liuerie , and their Soueraignes be attended with such seruants ; All Catholike schooles termed Seminaries of rebellions : and so directly not only the reputations of all those Vni●ersities , Princes , and Prelates of the Church of God , but God himselfe ( whose howse it is , and whose honor can neither be giuen nor taken away ) is thus condemned : as is set forth in a late pamphlett intituled , An exact Discouerie of Romish doctrine in case of Conspiracie : Silence would be too suspicious , of neglect in many greatest duties , to God in heauen , his Church on earth , to your Maiestie , and the whole Catholike world .

Therefore I po●e wretch and sinner an vnworthy member of that sacred bodie of Christ , and one of your Highnesse obedient subiects , in all submission craue pardon , not only to make demonstrance of Catholikes due and expected Loyaltie , to your Soueraigne Authoritie , and refute the friuoulous obiections of that Author : But with Dauid against Goliah in the behalfe of King Saul , and the people of God , to strike with his owne sword , and returne all and euery of his deadlie reasons , vppon himselfe , and his owne Profession .

Which ▪ as I may lawfully obserue , by common consent of all , entreating of the law of conscience , in this case , being onely to vse our owne right of iust defence , and not to offend or defame Accusers , ( which charitable exposition , I desire of all Protestant Readers : ) So , if I had trauelled no farther into that doctrine , then to the last printed booke by your Maiesties Printer , of the late intended conspiracy , I might as easily performe it : for that Protestant author giueth it out as a general Rule & vndoubted Maxime , to all professors of worship , to take armes , if their religion be in hazard : and that no priuate man could thinke his life more happily bestowed , than to fight pro Aris : which is greater liberty , than any opinion which our aduersarie can finde among Catholike Writers , so by him attached of treason and rebellion . But he shall receiue a more plaine and plentifull recitall , both of publike positions and practises , from all his neighbouring Allies in religion , to proue his owne profession , to be both Seminary and Granary of such prouision .

Which I am more inforced vnto , because this discouerer , by so many , not vsuall Catholike Authors , alleaged in his booke , discloseth his inueterate malice against vs , that he was now in his desired oppo●tunitie , deliuered with ioy of that , wherewith hee had trauailed so long in paine : or to renew in subtile m●nner , his old good affection to your Maiestie , doth marshall you euen now , ( otherwise all his re●sons be too childish ) in the number of c●uell Tyrants , Excommunicates , Apostat●es , and the infamous of all ages , not only Princes , but base persons . So that eyther for disloyalty to your Highnesse , or inured inflamed hatred vnto vs , or both , hee can finde no cent●r of his slaunders , except your Maiestie bee m●de the man and marke , where at the pen●ll canons and constitutions of holy Church , did point and leuell hundreds of yeares , bef●re you were borne , ●r his relig●on receiued life .

This is the miserable & distressed state , of many thousands your most loyall and louing subiects , ( dread Liege ) for their faithfull dutie to God , and a religion taught in this kingdome , and imbraced by all your progenitors , and our ancestors , so many hundred yeares , from their first conuersion : that euery aduersary may preach , and print against vs , and make their challenges ; as though eyther for ignorance we could not , or for distrust of our cause , we were vnwilling to make them answer , or come to triall : when quite contrary , wee haue , often , earnestly , and by all meanes wee could , desired to haue it graunted , with equall conditions , against the most selected and best learned Doctors of that religion .

And at this present , when your cheefest Protestant Cleargie , ( Bishops , and others ) is assembled , wee most humbly intreat , this so reasonable a Placet ; that although they will not ( as we feare ) easily consent to an indifferent choyce , opposition , and defence in questions ; yet , at the least , ( to auoide the wonder of the world ) they will be content , that we may haue publike audience , for those articles , opinions ▪ and practise , for which we are so much condemned , and persecuted . If wee shall not be able to defend or proue , any position generally maintained in our doctrine , to be conformable to those rules in diuinity , which your Maiesty , and the protestant lawes of England ( we can offer no more ) haue confirmed for holy , the canonicall Scriptures , the first generall Councells , the daies of Constantine , and the Primatiue Church ; let the penalties be imposed and executed against vs . If we performe it , or this petition may not be admitted , we trust , that both our office to God , and duty to Prince , is discharged in this point .

Your royall Person , and that honorable consistory now assembled , or hold●n in your doctrine , to be the supreame sentencer , euen in spirituall businesse in this kingdome : wee therefore hope you will not ( in a Court from whence no appeale is allowed , and in matters of such consequence ) proceede to iudgement , or determine of execution , before the arraigned is sommoned to answer , hath receiued , or refused triall , is , or can be proued guilty : for it is a Sages sentence : Iudicem & Aram esse idem ; euen in ordinary 〈…〉 . 3. Rhetor. Iudges : because people iniured or distressed flie to them both for refuge . And we humbly craue licence to say vnto you , as Liberius , Pope of Rome , answered Constantius the Emperour , perswading Theodor. dialog. hist. trip , l , 5. c. 17 him to subscribe to the banishement of saint Athanasius , the great Gretian Patriarke , O Imperator , Iudicia ecclesiastica decet tam maxima proferri iustitia . If we be condemned , & our cause be iust , and religion true , it is God , and not man , against whom you proceede in sentence : if our profession be erroneous , and yet for consent with so many Nations , and so long continuance , it is left vnpunished ; you onely pardon the frailty and ignorance of earthly men , and fight not with the heauenly .

Deny not that to vs , your euer true and obedient subiects , in a religion so antient , which your colleged Princes , the King of Spaine , and Arch-duke , doe offer to the so many yeares disobedient Netherlanders , vpon their temporall submittance , in so late an imbraced doctrine . That which the Arrian Emperors of the East , permitted to the Catholikes , ( Bishops , Priests , Churches , tolleration : ) what the barbarian Vandalls often offered , and sometimes truly performed in Africke ; what the Turkish Emperor in Greece , and Protestant Princes in Germany , and other places allow to them of our religion , can be no singular offence , to grant vnto vs once in so many yeares , though our religion were vntrue . It would be acceptable to all Catholike Princes , conformable to the examples of protestant Rulers , not vnaunswerable to your owne princelie pietie , pittie and promise , no disgust to any equally minded Protestant , or Puritane at home , a Iubily to vs distressed ; and ( to answer all the discouerers quarrells in one sentence ) a warrant of security to your Maiesty , in all opinions against those terrors and dangers which he conceiteth : from which , and all others , of what kinde soeuer , we most humbly beseech the infinite Maiesty of God , to preserue your Highnesse , and send you , your Queene , and posteritie , all happinesse and felicity in heauen and earth .

Amen .
❧ A generall Censure of this slanderous Pamphlet ; proouing , that no one Argument therein can conclude the Authors Intent .
CHAP. I.

THis Discouerer of Terrors and Daungers neuer before imagined , like vnto the espiall of King Alexander , which either Qu. Cu●● . in vi●● Alexand. hauing his phantasie and interior powers distempered , or his externall sences out of order , or both farre from frameing right apprehension , and true judgement , brought worde to his wise triumphant Emperor , that an army of enemies was approaching to assault him , when they were but a small company of silie Apes , imitating souldiers with a march on the Mountaynes , doubteth not to call such his deluded vision , An exact Discouery of Romish Doctrine in the case of Conspiracie and Rebellion : and a little after , A Plaine Discouery of the Rebellious Doctrine of the Romish Church ; and termeth Romish Schooles ( to vse his owne wordes ) Seminaries of Rebellions , and telleth vs , Popish Priests , as also their Adherents , be worthily executed for seditious and trayterous persons . Hitherto is the strange Discriall of this great Discouerer , not as yet yeelding any Reason , but that we may thinke his braine distempered , conceiting Apes , for mortall Enemies , their stickes and Reeds for deadly wounding weapons . Therefore supposing , for his Reports of so vnprobable things , he should be deluded as a man illuded , and strangely mis-taken , except he pretended some strange and vn-vsuall Argument , for his rare Intelligence , falling into a second extreamitie , like a farre Trauailer , giueth foorth , that these wonders be collected out of the expresse Dogmaticall Principles , of Popish Priests and Doctors , and from their Publike Positions and Practises , and accordingly entituleth euery leafe , Romish Positions and Practises of Rebellion . What simply meaning minde would not be amazed with such a message , especially when hee professeth these things to be collected , not without direction from Superiors .

But , to ouerthrowe his last Assertion ; first , There is neyther name of Author ( the Current of time streaming for him ) to the Pamphlet , nor Licence and Priuilege of Impression , as all Books published by Authoritie by English Protestants ought to haue : And therefore to be accompted a Libell .

Touching the other , of proouing his Intent by our owne Dogmaticall Principles , and Publique Positions , it is so impudent an vntrueth , That if all his falsely applied Authorities were to be admitted for Gospel , yet not one such Dogmaticall and Publike Position or Practise , to the d●sgrace of our holy Religion , and to ratifie his slaunderous accus●tion , is registred in his whole Discouery , Except this Accuser will accuse and conuict himselfe of treason , both with God and man , to endite his Maiesty our gratious Soueraine Rat. 1. pag. 1. 2. 3. 4 5. & rat. 2. 3. of highest disobedience to his King & Creator in heauen , engrossing him in the Catologue of censured , excommunicate , and denounced Hereticks , Apostataes , Tirants , and Vsurpers : which if he intendeth to doe , at his first entrance he hath committed a crime Laesae Maiestatis if the lawe of Q. Elizabeth be not dead Statut. 13. Eliz●b . ●a . 1. with her selfe . If he will not be expounded in such sence , and to place all the honorable and inferior Magistrates , and Protestants also not in Authority , in that order , proportion of degrees obserued ( a paradoxe most monstrous , and not to bee imagined by any learned Catholike ) he warreth not against the Roman church , and schooles , his aymed obiect ; but against poetically or childishlie feigned Prosopopeis , and Chimeres of his owne creation ; for against only such his Arguments haue their force , against such as we esteeme them , they are too foolish .

Secondly , to giue life to his feeble or dead obiections , we must R●● 1. pag. 1. 2 , 3. 4 5. 6. 7. condiscend at his high will and pleasure , not only that all Protestants of England are formall heretickes , sentenced against , and censured , ( all which we absolutely denie : ) But that all penall decrees in the Canon and Papall lawe cited in his Treatise , are due and belonging vnto them , which the whole Christian world will witnesse against : And that in no Kingdome where Protestants be planted , England , Scotland , Ireland , Fraunce , S●●●eland , Heluetia , Lorraine , Denmar●e , any part of Germanie , Bohemia , Poland or any other they be practized as in force ▪ or put in execution .

Thirdly , we must giue consent ( against all Catholike schooles ) Rat. 2. pag. 9. 10. 11. that there is no difference betweene the chief spirituall power and preeminence which we giue to Popes , and mere ciuill soueraine Authority ouer Princes , and all temporall things , when we only attribute the first , and not the second to the Roman See .

Fourthly , we must not denie to this Discouerer , but if the Pope Rat. 4. pag 14. 15 16. 17. 18 19. 22 23. 24. 25 , &c. commandeth Armes against our Prince ( a metaphisicall & needlesse feare to be put in practise ) we would formally be conformed to such precept : yet when we giue a true , reall , present , and actuall instance , that the same Papall Authoritie now commandeth all Catholicks to performe all dutifull loyaltie and obedience to his Majestie , ( more then the protestant Cleargie of England can justifie for themselues ) and quia Papa siciubet , et prohibet the contrary : it will be no satisfaction for good behauiour to this obiector . These and more such absurdities must be yeelded vnto , if any one of his Arguments is to be respected . But I must needs All Protestants agree in di●obedience to Princes of a contrary Religion . put him in minde , that he hath behelde his visage too much in the glasse of Wickliffe , Husse , Waldo , Luther , Munster , Swinglius , Caluin , Beza , Knoxe , Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , Sands , Rogesr , and all Protestants of all places , ( as I will demonstrate hereafter ) howsoeuer they varied in other questions , yet all jumping togither in this , that Kinges and Magistrates of a different Religion , are not to be obeyed , but contemned , contradicted , deposed , and not worthy to be accounted eyther Princes or men : And this coloured , bloudie , and stained spectacle or speculum , hath so deluded his eyes , that he can see nothing but rebellions , seditions , and disobedience in professors of Religion , though neuer so holy and approued . But as we d●ffer from him & his adherents , in so many chiefest articles of Religion ; so we vtterlie renounce both their doctrine and practise in this poynt .

The first Reason against Catholiques confuted , and returned vpon Protestaats . CHAP. . II.

I Will come to his particular Reasons : The first whereupon ( as a most certaine ground and foundation , hee frameth the rest of his building ) is registred in these wordes . Their generall Assumption wherevpon all their rebellious Positious are founded , is this ; that all Protestants are hereticks , and excommunicate . Whereby it appeareth by his owne judiciall decree , that if Catholicks doe not teach , that all Protestants are hereticks and excomunicate , that then no positions which we maintaine , are rebellious , because he telleth vs all such are builded vpon that Assumption .

Wherefore to purge vs of all these crimes , by the first sentence of this Accuser ; I answere , this position ( all Protestants are hereticks and excommunicate ) is neyther a generall Assumption in Catholike Religion , neither doe I suppose that any one particular learned Catholicke in this kingdome ( yet such can best judge of their country case ) doth or will defend this opinion , which he calleth our generall Assumpsion .

For first , there is not at this present one Protestant absolutelie ( then not all Protestantes ) esteemed with vs to be in that ca●e , within the Dominions of our Soueraigne , of what condition soeuer to my knowledge : neyther is there daunger thereof hereafter , except such wicked and slaunderous writinges ( as this Disconerie ) be made incitemen● and citations for such censures . For although many , or most of the opinions defended by the Protestants of England were condem●●d for heresies , both in the primatiue and later dayes of the Church of Christ , in Iouinian , Vigilantius , Aerius , Berengarius , Waldo , Wickliffe , Husse , and others : yet it doth not presently followe , that all which imitate those doctrines should be termed Hereticks , as the first obstinate Inuentors , and pertinatious defendors of those nouelties were . For according to the sentence of S. Thomas , Halensis , Siluester , Durandus , D. Th. 2. 2. q. 11. ar. 2. H●ll 1. p. q. 181. m. 1. §. 1. Durand . 4. dist. 13. ● . 5. art. 6 Syl. v. Haeres . n. 5. August . l. de vtilit . Cre● . in princip. and the common opinion of Schooles , ignorance ( euen vincible ) excuseth from heresie . And this is the doctrine of S. Augustine , who in his booke de vtil●tate credendi writeth thus , He is an Hereticke who for temporall Commodity , or Vayne-glory , or Principallitie , eyther begetteth or followeth false Opinyon , but he who beleeueth Hereticks ( the case of the major part of english Protestants ) is a man illuded with a certayne Imagination of pyetie and truth . And he affirmeth , that the first ( wherof I hope England is not so plentifull ) is an Hereticke , and not the other . And against the Donatists he telleth vs , that he which holdeth that of Christ which Photinus the hereticke did , thinking it to be the Catholike faith ( as August . l. 4 c●● . Donaust . c. 1● . hundreds of thousands of ignorantly seduced Protestants doe , which heare no other doctrine but ministers Sermons ) is not yet an Hereticke , except when the truth of the Catholike doctrine is made manifest , he will resist it . And Cardin all Allane himselfe Cardin. Al lib. ●●persec●● . An●● . so often obiected ●n ●his discouery , thus writeth of that holy father and this question . Beatus Augustinus a●monuit , decipi ab Haereticus quis di●itur , & Haeretu is credere , nec tamen propriè est Haereticus . He is not properly an Hereticke , which is deceaued of Hereticks , and beleeueth Her●t●cks .

S●condly , by common consent of Catholike Doctors , both Adrian , quandl●● . 3. art , 1. Sylu. v. Hae●●s q. 2. Ga●r . 4 dist. 1● . q. 2. Alph. de Cast . Io. de tu●r . Clement . 1. ex●r . Ioh. 22. Bull. Martin . 5. ●etit . 1000 minis Answ of Oxford by Adm●nit . 1 & 2. parliam . C●●● . against ● . W. &c. sufficient ●nowl●dge of the truth proposed , and obstinate pertinacie in not emb●●ceing it , wi●h such defence of the contrary , is required to Heresie : in which case the principall preachers themselues in England , which haue so often chaunged their opinions , and didde volun●a●ily submitte thei . Religion ( both P●●●t●n●s in their millinary Pe●●t●on , and the Vniuersi●ie● Protest●nts in their Answere ) to his M●iestie●●e●su●e , to be chaunged or continued and in essentiall point● and ne●●ssarie ●●●●●ation as the Pu●●tanes haue oft written , wi●● the cond●●●e them to haue ●● faith ●t all , ( true faith cannot be ch●●nged corrected ) then to be obst●nately addicted ●o their profes●ion .

Thirdly many defend that although a man desireth to be ignorant of the tr●th and so professeth heresy in ig●●rance , ( though he sinn●●h g●ie●ousl● in such case ) yet he is not to be accounted an Hereticke .

Fourthly , Ca●u● ho●d●th , that a man dou●●●●● in his f●●●h ( 〈◊〉 l. 1● . de loc. ● . 9. ●● 4. common and g●●●r●ll t●i●g with ●nglish ●r●t●st●nts ) is not preperl● an Heret●●ke .

Fiftly , all Here●i●kes ( as inte●nall ) be not s●biect to Cens●●● and Exco●m●n●ca●●on .

Sixtly , before ●●com●●n●c●ti●n , no comm●ni●a●ion is f●rbiden 〈…〉 with any , 〈…〉 obi●cte●h from ●a●●●mitanus , that where the 〈◊〉 is noto●●on ( s●ch as ●his 〈◊〉 vs . Heresie 1. ) 〈…〉 not any decl●rat●on of ●●● s●ntence of Excommuni●●●ion : 〈…〉 absol●tely ag●inst t●e gre●test 〈…〉 . general 〈…〉 ▪ by w●ose dec●●e t●e 〈◊〉 must be both so censu●●d ●nd 〈…〉 which , consenteth Cunerns , Nauarre , and others .

Sixtly , also after such proceedings , ( except specially excepted ) Concil. Const. Suares de Censur . gloss . c. Cum desideras de sent. excommun . the case of wife , children , seruants &c. bringeth exemption .

Seauenthly , no Protestant , or hereticke , or Archehereticke , not excommunicate by name ( as none in England is ) lyeth subiect to any penalty pretended .

But it will be obiected , from the second Reason , that Catholikes holde the Pope head of the Church , to haue a ciuill power also ouer Kings , and circa omnia temporalia ; therfore he may both depose Princes , and commaund subiectes to arme against them , once excommunicate .

First , I aunswere concerning Priests , most maligned in this matter , that the canon Lawe itselfe is to the contrary , where be these words ; De Episcopis vero vel quibuslibet Clericis quod nec sua Decret 2 pa●● . caus. 23. q. 8. De episcopis , &c. authoritate , nec authoritate , Romani pontific● arma accipere valeant , facile probatur . Neyther Bishops nor any Clerks may take armes either by their owne authority , or the authority of the Pope of Rome . And reasons be added there , authorized by Gregory 13. alleadged here against vs in this Treatise . Therefore all of that order be absolutely freed from that ielousie , and may answer with Ambros ▪ orat . contra Auxent . S. Ambrose against Auxentius . Quid ergo turbamini , volens nunquam ius deseram : coactus re pugnare non noui potero dolere , poero flere , potero gemere , aduersus arma , milites , Gothos quoque , lacrimae meae , mea armasunt , talia enim sunt manimenta Sacer●otis , aliter nec debeo , nec possum resistere . Therefore why are you troubled , willingly I neuer will forsake right , compelled I know not to resist , I may be sorie , I may weepe , I may groane against Armes , sould●ers and the Gothes also , my teares are my armour , for such are the defence of Priests , otherwise I neyther ought , nor can resist .

Secondly , I aunswere , if any man holde that opinion , of such a power ouer Princes in Popes , yet they will plead , it is more tollerable to defend such authority in one supreame Pastor and spirituall gouernor in the Church , whereof Princes be sheepe , and not sheepeheardes ( as the late wise Lord Treasurer acknowledged of Queene Elizabeth , that shee was Ouis , and not Pastor ) then to committe the censuring of Princes cases , to such seditious iudges , and superiors , as Protestant both publique positions and practises assigne ; by which , not only euery Wickliffe , Luther , Caluine , Cranmer , Knoxe , and such supreame men , but the artizans and basest people in euery Eldershippe , may sitte in iudgement vpon their Soueraigne , Cite , Excomunicate and Depose him , euen for ordinarie offences , as themselues expound conuenient for their owne aduantage , as I will alleadge from their publique opinions hereafter .

And if this man will instance that the Author of the booke De iusta abdicat . Henric. 3. teacheth and excomuni consensu , that it is lawfull for a priuate man to kill a Tyrant . I answere , it is more then disobedience , for any subiect in England to make such comparison with his mercifull Prince : And yet whatsoeuer that priuate Author writeth , or this Disputer citeth from him , that opinion is not the common consent ; but against , not only the common Alphons . Castr. contr. Haeres . v. tyrannus . Petrus Gregorius in fine 2. to . de Republ. Cune●us ●e offic. priecip . christian . Hentic . quodl. 6. q. 23. Turrec● . l. 2. c. 113. Couo● . Victor de potest . eccl. concil. 1. q. ● Palat. 4 D. 25. Turrect . l. 1. c. 87. consent of Catholike authors , Alphonsus de Castro , Petrus , Gregorius , Cunerus and others , but against the generall councell of Constance it selfe , to which , all Catholikes must conform them selues .

Secondlie , I answere for all Catholickes in generall , to the maine Obiection , that Henricus , Victor , Iohannes de Turrecr , Couoruuius and the common opinion of Schooles doe teach , that there is no such mere Temporall and Regall power in Popes , ouer Princes , and ciuill affaires ; but a Supreame spirituall , as that is which they clayme in Temporalls in ordine ad Spiritualia , and is not ( to vse this Disputers words ) Aciuill power Soueraigne ouer Kings directly ; but only a spirituall preeminence ( the subiect , obiect , office and end thereof being such ) for the spirituall good and behoofe of the church of Christ , committed to his Vicar and chiefe Delegate here on earth , by commission of feeding , gouerning , ruling , binding , loosing , shutting , opening , and the like in holy Scripture , and authoritatiuely citeing , summoning , admonishing and censuring both sheepe and other sheepeheards of our Sauiours flocke .

Yet thirdly I answere , that the defendors of this sentence doe farther teach , that this iurisdiction and power against sheepe or inferior sheepeheards ; is not to be put in practise , but in cases of obstinacie , contempt , and incorrigibilitie in the offendor , and being onely for the profite and vtilitie of the Spouse of Christ , & his mysticall body , it may not be exercised where greater losse , domage , and hazard , then good and profite is to ensue from thence . The cause must be iust , the suggestion not vntrue , the meanes not turbulent tending to destruction .

Fourthly , the maintainers of this doctrine doe not vrge greater indignitie , or defend any sentence more offensiue ( in equallingement ) to any prelate ▪ sheepe , or sheepheard , then to the chiefest sheepehea●d vnder Christ , the Pope him●e●fe : for they all with one consent affirme , that in case of heresi● ( now in question ) hee 〈◊〉 . v. pa● 2. §. 4. palud ib. & ei●t . Turrecr . li. 2 sum . c. ●0● . l 4 c. 18. Aug. de An●on . ●ast● . l. de iust . haeret . ●●nit . ●ot . 4 ▪ d●●t . 12 q. ● . ●●tic . 2. Can. l. 4 de loc. c. vlt. Co●dub . l b. quaestion●r q. 11. is eyther actually and really deposed , or to be deposed . The Canonists doe holde he is ipso facto deposed , if hee fall into her●sie ; with whome Io de Turrecrem . Augustin●s de Ancona , Castro , and other Diuines consent , which C●nsure Wickcl●ffe and hi● Protestant succ●ssors did imp●●e vppon P●inc●s and temporall Magistrates , eyther for h●r●si● or any other ●rime . Others , as S●●us , ●anus , and Cordubensi● affir●e , in that 〈…〉 ●o be depos●d , And such ●● the discipline of the Chu●ch of God . that these men , and all Catho●ike ●cho●les ( euen in Rome it selfe ) as confid●nt●y disp●t th●s● q●estions , for wh●●●a●se , h●w and when , and by Panormita● . sup. ca● Significa●●i . Canonist in c. Si P●●● . whom Popes may be d●posed , a● they do● eith●r speake or write of the greatest p●iui●edges of th●t Apostolike See . And Panormitanus a Canonist , with others , i● so confident in this businesse , that they teach , a Pope may be d●posed for any sinne , that is scandalous to the Ch●●ch of Christ , if he be inc●●rigible .

Fiftly , the present Professor● which handle this q●●stion betweene Popes a●d P●inces , doe not holde any sin●ul●r opinion tending to the indignitie or dommage of any Pr●testant Regent , more than to all oth●rs in equ●ll termes ; b●● what is now by them main●ained , was publike d●ctrine befo●e Protestancie had either pr●nce or pe●ple to e●brace ●t , and at t●i● ti●e do iustifie ●he like sen●●nce c●ncerning all Catholi●e Rulers , in ●q●all ballaunce of comp●●ison , and ●hat openly w●thout ●●proofe in th●ir owne dom●●●ons .

Sixtly , to giue contentment to all that will not be contentious , or ●ff●ct to be singular in persec●●ing or domag●ng ●he Church of God . Th●●e Authors doe not s●y , that ●he 〈◊〉 power ●● simp●y and ●●●olutely subiect to the Papall and Sp●r●tuall au●hori●ie , but in case of iniuries offered , or great imp●diment of the spiritual ▪ good , more preeminent then the t●mporall . And in such c●uses euen in temporall affaires , and among such powers and Princes , iniuries offered , and iust right denied , or hindered , giueth a prerogatiue to equalles iure belli , among Kings and ciuill Regents , to recouer their owne , redeeme their wrong , ●equite their iniuries , where the offendor denieth to make requitall .

Therefore , seeing this Discouerer cannot finde anie such ciuil power soueraigne ouer Kinges challenged by Popes , and against which hee so much inueigheth , nor any other more peculiarly intended against Protestant Princes , then all others in like proceedings ; let him draw his weapon against those by whome he is assaulted in this kind . First against the Canonists and the Legists euen in England , and of the Arches , except they will dissent from the more receaued opinion of like prof●ssors : secondly against himselfe & all Protest●nt write s. Against the first , bicause ( which is his case in question ) they defend that the empror is lord of all the world , insom●ch that Bartholus the great Leg●s● affirmes , Ba●thol . in extra●ag . ad rep. imen . glosse per venerab . Qui filii , &c. that peraduenture it is h●resie to te●ch the contrary 〈…〉 ( saith he ) it is against the scripture , Exist ed●ctum à Caesare v● d●●●r●beretur or●is , where the whole wo●ld and Princes thereof were at his designement : And ( which the Protestants alleadge for tempor●ll Princes supremacie ) omnis anima potestatibus sublimiorjbus subdita sit : therefore ( as he reasoneth ) all Princes be subiect to him , as the highest power . And in this case of Armes and death ( which this man so often obiecteth ) the cause is more daungerous in respect , that in the whole papall and canon law of the Popes , there is no penaltie of death against any hereticke , or excommunicate , neyther is such punnishement to bee inflicted by any spirituall Iudge , or executioner : But that kinde of reuenge or justice , is only Codic . haeret . leg . Adrian et Cod●c . de Iudaeis leg . Quicunque . prouided by the emperiall and ciuill Constitutions , and by temporall Authority and brach●um scecuiare to be put in practise .

Lastly , lett him battaile against himselfe , and his Protestant Protestants Religion of all others is the greatest e●nemy to Princes and Catholique worship the most fauourable . brethren , which of all people in the wo●lde , that euer were , or be , are the most guilty in these proceedings , as I will at large demonstrate hereafter ) and Catholikes of all most innocent . For seeing all professors of Religion , Israelites , Pagans , Catholikes , Protestants , and all others euer prescribed some meanes and manner to keepe both Rulers and the ruled in order : of all people to whom that authority was attributed by any . The Popes of Rome ( proportion of time and place cousidered ) haue beene the actors of the fewest translations of titles in Princes . Not aboue foure or fiue examples can be giuen in the whole christian worlde in aboue 1500 yeares , and not many excommunications from the first of ●hillip●e the first Christian Emperour ( as some suppose by the Eusch histor. Pope of Rome ) or of Archad●●s by Pope Innoc n●●us the first within 400 yeares after Christ ; when the Prophettes and Priests of Nice●hor . h●st . in Arc●ad . Iurie deposed more in one Kingdome ; and the excesse of the Paans is not to be recited . And the Protestants themselues since their originall haue deposed as many or ●ore , th●n all the Popes in to many yeares , and that onelie for Religion , when for that qua●r●ll not one Prince in the Popedome hath lost his Diademe , nor any without common consent of the Christian worlde . For Protestants ▪ I instance in the Prince of Geneua deposed ; and in the King of Spaine , and the present Arche-duke in the Lowe Countries , expelled from their Right , the Kinge of Polonia in Sweueland at this present in litle better estate , the Queene Regent in Scotland so made a subiect , and his Maiesties mother deposed , the Emperour denied his allowance of tribute for the Turkishe warres , his Townes taken , and ●ept against him , the Duke of Loraine , and others in the like predicament .

And the violent attempts which they haue vndertaken , by rebellion ag●inst their Princes , for this quarrell of Religion , haue beene more , then all excommunications of Princes by Popes , for any respect what●oe●er ; the particulars will appeare in their proper place .

And whence can all these impious practises proceed , with so gener●ll ap●l●●●e , but from their most impious and rebellious publiqu● position ? you haue heard before , that the proces of Popes is such in this busines that no Prince ( except more wicked th●n any now liuing , or as vnfo●tunate as some foure or fiue in all the time of Christian●ty in the worlde ) neede stand in daunger .

Contrariewise , by Protestant religion , no sinner , or no King : Const. Concil. in a●● Wickcl . Lu●●●● . to . 6. pag. 〈…〉 . Luth. Cal●in in Dan. Suingl lib. 4. Philipp . Nichol. fund●m . Caluin . Sect &c. Luther denieth all obedience to Princes differing from him in Religion ; calling them Pilates , Tyrants , Herods , Iudas , and that his Protestants handes must be imbrued with bloud in such cases . Caluin telleth , that ipso facto they are bereaued . If no permission of Swinglius doctrine , no Prince with him , and all bee Martirs that be slaine in rebellion for that quarrell . The english Protestant Confer . 14. 1604 pag. 47. Luther . lib. capt . Babyl . Notes ( as his Maiestie is witne● ) vppon the Bible doe not disalowe the killing of a Prince in such cases . And this is to bee perfect Protestant disciples of their Apostle Luther , who taught , no lawe can be imposed vpon Christians , but as they will , all humane lawes must be taken away . Therefore saieth Caluin , Beza , Test●tr ordin . Burg. in Reman sup. edict . Reg. Gall , Petr. Frar , or ▪ contr. Sect. Defen● Reg. & Relig. Athomannus , Spiphazius , and the rest of that holie Sinode , that Kinges , Queenes , their children , and post●ritie ( l●st Kinges a●●se againe ) and all Magistrates must be put to death , and so euery particular Protestant must be more then a Pope , an Emperour , or rather a god , to put Princes to death at their pleasute : and we must say with the Consistorian Protestants , not only ●uerie priuate man may be executioner of Princes : but teach , that it is necess●●ie to assigne rewardes for such murtherers of Rulers ; wee must not call them Kings or Superiours ▪ but Tirants , Monsters , and not worthy of life . But more of this hereafter , in their generall positions and practises .

The rest of the penal●ies which this Author alleadgeth as belonging Catholikes denie no temporall societie o● duety to Protestants . to the excommunicate , and such heretickes , and which he writeth , that Cat●olikes doe teach , are due , and to be extended vpon all Protestants of England , be thus recited : to spoile Protestants of their goods ; deny t●thes to the Ministers ; not paying debts to Creditors ; seruants not d●t●full to Masters ; wiues not beneuolent to Hu●bands ; Pare●ts dis-inhe●iting Children ; children not obeying P●rents ; kinsmen to kindred , and countriemen to their Countrie to be vnkinde . But I haue answered before , that these societies are not to be denied to the Protestants of England , because we doe not est●eme them in that case of heretickes , and excommunicates . Secondly the world is witnes for vs , and against this Obiector , that we as truly and sincerely performe these communications and respects to our country protestants , as they them selues , and rather in more ample manner . And although Tithes be due to spirituall Ministers , for Sacraments and holie thinges , which we doe not receaue from them , yet we doe not withdrawe Concil. Const. in artic. Wickcliff . their payment to the protestant Cleargie , neither say as their martir Wickliffe did ; that they be but almes , and may be taken awaie at princes pleasures . Thirdly I answere , that those canonicall punishments he citeth against the censured , were not of purpose ordaind against his protestancy ; but the decrees of such proceedings may be great-grandfather to that Religion : not now in vse either in this kingdome , France , Heluetia , Sweueland , Denmarke , and most part of Germany , or in farther circuit . And if the penal constitutions of the generall Councell of Trent representing Pope , Prelates , Princes , and the whole church of Christ , are not yet after fourty yeares continuance receaued in the recited Prouinces , or Kingedomes : There is not so great daunger , that those Papall paines will euer giue to this man so much cause of so outragious exclamations . They were long before the birth of protestancie , prouided for countries and people whence heresies had not entered , not where such opinions haue preeminence . And if it should please his Maiestie to restore the Catholike faith in England , yet there is not perill that protestants should fall to such feares of these penall constitutions to be admitted : penalties are not so soone imposed , their nature is to be restricted and not dilated . If so many other kingdomes vnder Catholike Regents , Fraunce , Sweueland , Bohemia , Polonia , Transiluania &c. doe not consent to their admittance : This Iland one of the last by cituation , and so long at variaunce with the Roman Church , is not likelie to be the first in that , wherein nature desireth to be the last . We haue not now an other Queene Marie , Inheretrix to the Crowne , to be joyned in mariadge with a potent Prince , in whose Dominions they be in force ; simbolizing with husband , conformity in countrie discipline is neuer like to breed you scruples in this behalfe . And yet in such a metaphisicall case ( nemo laeditur nisi à seipso ) though you haue anowed to be an heretike and excommunicate , you must be cited , and admonished before censure , and obstinate before and after , or else your daunger is not deadlie .

Thus I haue proued at lardge , as my violent and distressed leasure would giue me allowance , that the chiefest building of all these slaunders against vs , is ruinate and ou●rthrowne ; that we doe not esteeme all Protestants for heretickes and excommunicate , as he pretendeth : neither that they are subiect to such penalties , as he alleadgeth ; that they are not censured , or as such to be depriued of any ciuill societie , communication , their goodes , liues , liberties , dignities , honor , homage , fealtie , subiection , dutie , loue , or any thing pretious , their proper and peculiar ; but contrariewise to enioy and possesse those priueledges , in as ample manner and freedome , as if they were of the same Religion which we defend .

Now I will with breuitie answere to his particular pretended reasons , grounded vpon the generall before confuted : And first to his first Sillogisme , or rather Sophisme ; the maior proposition whereof is already ouerthrowne , and only requiring repetition , is as followeth : They who by their slaunderous doctrine make all Protestants ( in their common censure heretickes ) so odious and unworthy of any ciuill or naturall society , must necessarily be adiudged seditious , and intollerable among the Protestants : My answere is absolute before , that no learned Catholike so reputeth the Protestants , or any one Protestant of this kingdome ; but attributeth ( or ought so to do by his Religion ) as much terrene honor , homage , duty and loue to our King , his honorable Counsaile , and all in Authority in their degrees , and vnfeined affection to the rest , as if they were of the same faith and profession in Religion .

Then the minor proposition ( if the same medium be kept ) must needs be false , which is this : But the Romish Seminaries and Iesuites doe brand all Protestants with detestable crimes ; thereby to deny them all ciuill and naturall Respects . Ergo. I answer , If the first part of this second proposition , be vnderstood of the wickednesse of many English Protestants , not only condemned of their brethren Admonit . 1. & 2. Parliam . perit . 1000. Minist. Cartw. against I. W. Puritanes , but by themselues confessed , and their owne lawes so conuicted : it proueth them for such ; but proueth not sedition , but true and loyall dealing in Catholikes , which doe not say with Protestants , masters and martirs , Wickliffe and Husse , and their brothers Concil. Con●● . i● Wickl . artic. Io. Husse , &c. Waldensians ; that wicked men in Magistracie be deptiued of Rule and Iurisdiction : but against their owne fellowes in profession , defend their offices , power , authority and preeminence .

If the Discouerer will haue the force of this proposition to remaine in the later sentence , ( thereby to denie them all ciuill and naturall Respects ) It is both vnproperly spoken , and slaunderously obiected against Catholikes ; which neither deny to Protestants in Authority , or others , any ciuill or naturall Respect , for their crimes and sinnes , neither charge any one amongst so many millions , with Canonicall demerite or impediment of such respects .

Therefore first , Such opinions of some p●iuate Catholiques , Andreas ●urg . Mr. Rainolds , D. Gifford , Mr. Wright . that Protestants holde no article of faith , Caluinismeis Turcisine , no better then Turci●me ; compared to Atheisme , is no more then other Protestancy especially of Caluine and the Engl●●h Protest described by their ●●ll●wes . Nichol. ●● fun●●m . De●●n . & Co●l●g . Tub●●g . in praesa . Protestants ch●●dge Caluin with . And what is this to the Protestants of this kingedome , except they meane to bring Arrianisme , Nestorianisme , and Turcisme into the world , as Philippus Nicholaus a lea●ned protestant minister , and the protestant Deane and College of ●ubing write of Caluin , & ●w●nglius . The re●ited protestant hath written a whole Booke of that Subiect , giuing it for Title , Fundamentorum Caluinianae Sectae cum veteribus Arrianis et Nestorianis communium Dete●●io . And yet the Turks Alcoran beeing made by Arrians and Nestorians ( as the Preface there recounteth ) Praefat. sup. Caluins doctrine is proued by him , to agree with them in 17. or 18. chief a●ticles . And in the seauenth Chapter he plainly c. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7 8. 9 , 10 11 , &c. s●●r . Cap. 7. supr. writeth , that these Casuinists and Swinglians will not be quiet , vntill they haue brought Mahumetisme and Turcisme into the West , as by the Arrians and Nestorians it came into the East . And among all people is most ielous of the Sacramentary Brabenders , Frankes , Heluetians , English and Scots in this behalfe ; and affirmeth , that Arrianisme , Turcisme and Swinglianisme , be the mother of Antechrist . And he bringeth in Luther prophecying ( as Cap 9. ●upr . he calleth it ) that the Sacramentaries would neuer cease , vntill they denied Christ to be God , which M. Willet , D. Fulke , and others Will . Synops. contr. gene● . 19 Fulke in nouo Testamento . Conci 1. Nicaen . in Symbol . con●il Ephes. Const●nt . 1. H. ●rought . Ad●erus . o● Co●up . an. 1604. Will . Antilog . Aduertism . sup. pag. 2. 3 haue almost f●lly effected , denying Christ to haue receaued his substance of his Father , or that he is Deus de deo , God of God , as the first generall Councels haue defined .

I will next alleadge Mr. H. Broughton a late english Protestant writer in the last yeare , and a man most highlie commended by the great recited Summist , in his new borne Antilogie ; who telleth his Protestant Brethren , or rather Fathers ( he speaketh chiefly to the Bishoppes ) in England , that their Translation of Scriptures into english is such ; that it causeth millions of millions to reiect the new Testament , and to runne to eternall flames . In his second Chapter he challengeth their publique translation , of peruerting the holie text of the olde Testament in eight hundred and eight and fourty places . He telleth the late Archbishop of Canterburie , that he might with as good learning haue subscribed to the Alcoran , as consent with such Protestants , as he did . He plainly writeth these wordes : Christianitie denied in England by publique Authority . He telleth the Bishoppes , that they betray the Gospell to the Iewes , and agree with the enemies of our Lord . Their Bible is inferior to the Alcaron . The Bishopps notes betray our Lord , and Redeemer , and befoole the Rocks of Saluation . They are the very poyson to all the Gospell . The Libian sandes may aswell be reckoned , as Bilsons ( the Bishoppe of winchester ) Heresies . He hath a minde to be f●mous for millions of errors . And speaking in his owne person saieth thus : I gaue I. C. ( so he calles the late protestant Archbishop of Canterburie ) the Anathema , Maranatha . No doubt but such a man would excommunicate a King , if he had come in his way , at that time .

The admonition to the Parliament written with no small consent , Admonit . patl . vseth these words . No man in whom there is any sparke of grace or conscience , can liue in the common-wealth of England , whose inhabitants be all Infidelles , and they be all Infidelle ▪ that goe to their churches . Arch-bishoppes and Bishoppes gouernment is both Antichristian Admonit . 2. pag. 25. 33. Suppl . vers. 56. and deuilish . Antichrist is amonge them . It is traiterous against the Maiestie of Christ , It is accursed . It is an vnlawfull , false , and bastardly gouernment . It shall be easier for Sodome and Gomorrhe in Admonit . 2. pa. 3 the day of iudgement , than for the court of Parliament , where the Protestant Religion was confirmed . There is no right Religion established Admonit . 1. pag. 2. 32. in England . I cannot for want of time , and need not for lacke of witnes , recite more testimonies in this businesse . These be sufficient for Catholiques excuse , and to returne the Argument vppon Protestants . And lett this Obiector vnderstand , that these men which be so well conceated of his doctrine , and together teach , that all such sinnes , and lesse , deserue excommunication in what person soeuer , with the penalties thereof ; and that they are deposed from their Seates by such offences , may iustly come within the compasse of his Conclusion , and Ergo : for by his owne allowed maior proposition , whosoeuer doe make Protestants so odious , and unworthy of any ciuill &c. is se●●●ious , and intollerable amonge Protestants : But as I haue proued ●●●●●●estants themselues , Protestants doe so , or be such , or 〈…〉 are so to be esteemed by this Reasoner .

The second Reason answered , and returned vpon Protestants . CHAP. III.

THe second Reason is contained in these woordes ; Whosoeuer do professe any ciuill power soueraigne ouer Kings , whether directly or indirectly , are to be accompted seditious . I would wish him to except the Emperour of the Princes of Germany , and such as be subiect to the Empire , & such cases . Then to passe ouer the Turkish regiment , I say transeat maior for Christendome : And thus I frame the minor . But all Protestant writers doe ordinarily both teach and practise this Doctrine , as I haue prooued before , and will more plentifully performe heereafter . For this place I onelie instance in this vnited kingdome , Britany , and principally in two Queene Maries .

Against her that raigned in this part which wee inhabite , it was Protestants seditious by this mans Argument the publike consent of the chiefest Protestant Bishoppes and Diuines , Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , Sands , Rogers , and the rest , principall Preachers , That she might be deposed , and not onelie she , but her sister Queene Elizabeth , a Protestant , and the familie of his Maiesty should be defeated . And was publikely put in practise both with wit and weapons , to the vttermost of the greatest Protestants power , the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffolk , and many other of great estate . And this not onely contrary to the lawe of God , and the expresse Statutes of this kingdome , but their owne oth to the Lady Mary when shee was Princesse in her fathers life . The publike practise also of Protestants in the attempt of sir Thomas Wyat , warranted by the Protestant Cleargie , with diuers others in the short regiment of that Queene , may be giuen for instance . Therefore let no man obiect heereafter , that the Positions Protestan●s may not condemne their Puritane Brethren . and Practises of R●bellion proceede onely from the Puritane Protestants ; for such pure Protestancie had not audience in England at that time , but the defenders there of were called New vp-start arrogant spirites by Latymer , and such Protestants as I Latim . Serm. before King Edward the fixt . haue condemned guiltie in this kinde . And yet the present Protestant Writers of England , which teach , that the true Church can not erre in things essentiall to true Religion , and necessary to saluation , and communicate in Sermons , Sacraments , Doctrine , and subscription to articles ( the very notes of the Church in their proceedings ) cannot condemne these traiterous and rebellious positions and practises in Puritanes , for great and damnable offences in Religion , or impediments of Saluation : therefore by this disputers Argument , they are to be accounted seditious .

Now I will recite his second proposition against us , which is this . But all Popish priests doe professe a double prerogatiue ouer Kings : Democraticall and Monarchicall : namely , both people and Pope : ergo : To the Popes Authoritie I haue already sufficientlie answered , and will demonstratiuely proue farther heereafter , that as it is defended by catholike doctors , it is far more fauorable and defensiue to Princes titles , then either doctrine or practise of Protestants , or any other professors of Religion , whereof I haue also intreated beefore . Concerning his conceat of Catholikes defending a democraticall prerogatiue in the people ouer all Kinges : ( so be his wordes ) It fighteth with his owne assertion , and present position of the Popes Monarchicall prerogatiue ouer all Kings ( which likewise is his sentence . ) For where there is a Monarchie , and Monarchicall power or gouernment in one , there is vnpossibillitie of a Democracie and Democraticall Power and Regencie in the people : otherwise these propositions be true : Kinges be subiects to subiects , and subiects be Kinges of Kinges , seruants be masters to their masters , Masters be seruants to their seruants , Fathers be children of their Children , and Children be fathers to their Fathers : and the like relations must be inuerted by this Logicians Argument .

But lett vs heare what publique Positions he will bring from our Writers , to proue our opinion of a democraticall power in the people ouer Princes , which I haue confuted by his owne proposition . He only citeth the Author de iusta abdicat Henric. 2 to say that Maiestas Regni est in populo , potius quam in persona Regis : That D. Stapleton affirmeth , people are not ordained for the Prince : but the Prince for the people : and Mr. Rainolas to call a King a creature of Mans Creation : the like he citeth out of Dolman . All which in equall sence his Maiestie himself in open Parliament doth not so much seeme to dislike ; especially in vacancie of a King or the originall of kingdomes , of which cases those Authors The kings speach Parli . 1. doe principally entreate . And in such circumstances I demaund of this Obiector , whether there euer was , or could be a King , and Ruler ouer people , where there was no people to be ruled , or consent to be ruled . But people both were in the begining without kings , and made election of diuers kinds of regiment , as they thought fittest and most secure for their defence , and gouernment in peace : some Monarchicall , some Aristaraticall , others Democraticall : although none made election of a Monachy by one , and Democracie by the multitude at once in one Commonwealth , as this simple Disputer did argue before ag●inst Princes titles ; for that is vnpossible , as I haue made demonstration . And his Maiesties wordes be these : Although a Kingdome and The kings speach supt . people be Relata ▪ yet can he be no King , if he want people and Subiects : but there be many people in the world that lacke a head , as when Regall Lines be extinct , people be yet without Kings ; but not e contra : So where regiment passeth by election . In Polonia at the death of euery King , the case is such , because that Kingdome and Principallitie goeth by voices : So in Venice : So in the Empire by the seauen Princes , called Princes Electours , supplying the peoples suffrages , and consents . And this the Discouerer Rat. 3. infr. himselfe hath remembred in framing his next Reason , wherin he maketh mention of Election , and calleth a seditious to hinder the right thereof . But slaunders and contradictions be neither wilfull wickednesse , nor vnlearned ignorance in this Accuser . How the Protestants , both clergie and people , claime Soueraignty ouer Princes , is spoken before , and often proued in this Treatise .

The third Reason confuted , and returned . CHAP. IIII.

THe maior Proposition of his third reason , is ; Whosoever vppon any pretended Supremacy , whether of Pope or people , doe deny the necessary right of Election , or of Succession of Protestant Princes , are to bee holden amongest all Protestants , seditious : his Contradiction in this against the former reason , I haue spoken of in the last Argument . And for this present , I grant this maior , and make this my minor : But Protestants , and English Protestants , Protestants are seditious by this Argument . doe deny the necessary right of Election , or Succession of Protestant Princes : ergo ; the minor is proued before in Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , Sandes , Rogers , and the Dukes of Northumberland , and Suffolke , with their Protestant Preachers and forces against the Succession of Queene Elizabeth , a Protestant , and ( though then not borne ) his Maiesty a Protestant King . I adde further , that his Highnesse title was expresly contradicted , and written against of purpose , in a booke to that end , by Hales , ( a companion to Knoxe ) an English Protestant ; to which , no Protestant ( to my knowledge ) did euer giue answer , or deniall . But many Catholikes confuted it , as the Catholike Bishop of Rosse , in Scotland , and three Catholikes of distinct professions in England ; S●r Anthony Browne , Knight , and Iudge of the common Law , Doctor Morgan , a Diuine , and Doctor Mytch , ( or like name ) a civill Lawyer .

Now let vs heare his second proposition against Catholikes , Thus it is : But all Popish Priests , doe vtterly abolish the title of Succession , in all Protestant Princes , &c. go , This he would proue against all Priests , because To●let , ( and conformably to him , Doctor Stapleton , Maister Raynolds , Symancha , and the Author of Philopatre ) writeth Nulla est Imperatoris , aut Regis Electio , si cum Eligitur , excommunicatus est . The Election of an Emperour or King , is non , if he be excommunicate when he is chosen .

I answer : First , heere he contradicteth himselfe againe , making election and consent of the people , an essentiall thing to Princes titles . Secondly , let all be true which he citeth , and that they so teach : yet , if fiue particular men could make a generall councell , and their sentence be termed a publike position ; yet they speake onely of a Prince , excommunicate before his Election ; which case is not now in rerumnatura , much lesse in England . His Maiesty was not excommunicate before his Election , neither is hee now , but is both elected and setled in his throne , both without any contradiction of the Pope , and with his Iubet of all obedience , and prohibet of deniall thereof . All the Catholikes of this Kingedome , applauded it as much as Protestants . And his vnion and league with Catholike Princes and people abroad , is sufficient answer , that this is a malicious slaunder of holy Priesthood ; and proveth Catholikes innocent , Protestants guilty , and this man an vniust accuser . The Argument retu●ned vpon Protestants , with a recita●l of their seditious doctrin●

But for breuitie , to passe ouer forraigne Protestants in this place , I will put this disputer in minde of his brethrens dogmaticall principles and positions , in this vnited Kingdome . The Protestant Writers and Preachers of England defended , that Wyat was no Traytor to Queene Mary . And thus they wrote expresly ; It is lawfull to kill Kings , and both by Gods law , and mans law , Queene Goodm pag 103 obed pa. 99. 113. Goodm . pa. 99. Mary ought to be put to death , ( what Priest of England did ever so write , speake , or thinke of any Protestant his Soueraigne ? ) she was a tyrant , a monster , a cruell beast . And yet the purer sort of Protestants affirmd of Queene Elizabeth , ( as his Lordship of Canterbury Hay an . pag. 13 15. 23. D●ing . poli● . p●g. 133. 134. sup. wi●nesseth ) That she was worse then her sister Many , and they more suppressed by her , then by the other . They did write ; That she was not to be obeyed , being against their proceedings , and openly moued the greatest Sub●egents in England , to take armes against her ; affirming , if they Suppli●a● . to the gouer . of Wales pa. 16. 36 , 37 , 38 , 39 D●ng . pos●t . lib 4 e. 3 ▪ 4 Goodm p. 144. 145. Obed. pag 110. Knos . hist. pag. 37 ● . Obed . pag 99. 103. 104. Goodm . pa. 99. Buchan . i●● . ●●g pag. 40. 58 Obed. pa. 111 refused it , they ceased to be Magistrates . These also insuing , be more of their holy dogmaticall principles . Euill Princes , ought by the law of God , to be deposed , and inferior Magistrates ought to doe it cheefely : It is lawfull to kill wicked Kings : It were good that rewards were appointed by the people , for such as kill tyrants , as commonly there are , for those that haue killed eyther woolues , or beares , or taken their whelpes . The people haue the same power ouer their King , that the King hath ouer any one person . Iudges ought by the law of God , to sommon Princes before them , and to proceede against them , as against all other offenders : the people may arraigne the Prince : the Ministers may Buchan . pa. 62 Cartwr . replic . 2. pag. 65. Obed. pag. 115. 116. Bucha . p. 70. excommunicate him : any Minister may excommunicate the greatest Prince : he that is excommunicate , is not worthy to enioy any life vpon earth . Whereby is euident , the monstrous dissimulation of this people , which sometimes , for their aduantage , will not be scrupulous to denie , that with other articles of their religion , and the cheefest , and to say ; that they onely claime power to excommunicate , not to depose and kill Princes . And to testifie how easily , Suru . pretend . holy D●●cipl . pag. 283. 284. Buchan . pag. 6 13. Obed. pag. 25 and for what ordinary offences Princes may be thus intreated , the present Protestant Archbishop of Canterbury is witnesse , that fornication , drunkennesse , swearing , cursing , fighting , chiding , brawling , breaking of the Sabbath , wanton and vaine words , and the like , be sufficient incitements and causes of such proceedings with them . And they tell vs further ; That the people are better then the King , and of greater authority : the people haue right to bestow the Crowne at their pleasure : the authority which Princes haue , is giuen them from the people , and the people may take it away againe , as men may reuoke their Proxies , and letters of Attorney .

Now I would demand of this obiector , whether they be members of the Roman Catholike Church , or the pillars of his Protestant Congregation , that congregateth and gathereth together such monsters as holy children , which teacheth a double prerogatiue ouer Princes : one in the people , when inferior Magistrates , and not Magistrates may , ( and must by their doctrine ) depose Kings and Soueraignes : and likewise their ministery , ( as before ) hath as ample , or a more preeminent authority . Which also concluded from these English Protestant principles ; If Magistrates transgresse Gods lawes themselues , and commaund others to doe Goodm . pa. 119. 139. the like , then haue they lost that honour and obedience , which otherwise their subiects did owe vnto them , and ought no more to be taken for Magistrates , but to be examined , condemned , and punished , as priuate transgressors . When Magistrates doe cease to doe their duties the people are as it were without officers , and then God giueth the sword into their Pa. 185. 180. 184 hands .

And such was the vniuersall practise of all protestants ( especially Caluenists ) in all places of their holy preaching , Germany , Heluetia , Denmarke , France , England , and Scotland , with others in fo●mer times : and at this present , the Protestants in Hungary , Transiluania , Sweueland , and the Low Countries , in actuall sedition and rebellion against their Soueraignes , Emperour , King , and Princes , are instance .

Concerning that spirituall supremacy , which the lawes of England The Kings supremacy denyed by all Puritans , and e●ther den●ed , or doubted of by al english protestant writers . atrribute to his Maiestie , it can be no question , but all Puritans doe deny it ; which not onely teach a superior power , both in people and Ministers , to which the rest of the Protestants of the same congregation , ( as before ) must needes consent : But also in this regard , that the gouernment of their Eldership , or Bresbitery , ( incomposible with Princes Supremacy ) is the cheefest article of their religion , and distinctiue note of their reformed Church .

Then to come to the present Protestant writers , an● their designements , the Archbishop of Canterbury is the man which maketh Suru . of pre● , Di●cipl . relation , that this was a common proposition : Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church , then the Ministers haue with the affaires of the Common-wealth . And there it is alleaged ▪ that such gouernment by Princes , is worse then by the Pope , for diuers reasons Pa. 25● 253. 254 255 ●●6 &c. sup. there recited , and not confuted by any Protestant : I will recite the sentences of the principall .

Protestants of this time , Doctor Fulke in plaine termes acknowledgeth , D Fulke h●br . c 13 ●ect 9. 1. pe●r . 2. v. 13. ●●ct 5. Ioh. c. 21. 1. petr. 5. Mat. c. 16. Bell. mo●iu . lib. 2. fol. 78 , 79. 80. 81 Suru . part. 3. c. 10 pa. 426. & 1. part . pag 34. Whit●ker contra Bellar controu. 1. q 8. D. 〈◊〉 . li. de concil . that Emperours and Kings , owe obedience to the Clergy , and cannot prescribe lawe● of Religion to Bishop● , by their iudgements . Maister Bell writeth the Ecclesiasticall affaires to be in the Cle●rgy , as to decide controuersies , and that the King hath only charge and authority , to command the Ministers to preach , and giueth him no definitiue sentence . Doctor Whitaker is all for the priuate spirit , and bringeth diuers reasons ▪ all peculiar for that purpose . Such also is Doctor Su●liues sentence ; and yet he addeth , that generall Couns●lls are absolutely necessary : then Kings iudgements not sufficient : And a generall Counsell ( none yet among them ) necessary b●fore their religion may be approued . Maister Hooker , and Docter Couell , make the Ecclesiasticall power supreame Hooker l. 5. eccl. Polit c. 77. D. Couel . c. 4. Defence of Hooker pl. Innoc c. 1. D. Dow. ep●st . ded●c . cont. Bellat . Bils . tit. li. true . Differ . Willet Synops. controu 7. 9. 1. in such businesse , and the Temporall , to be dependant and subordinate . Doctor Downam assigneth the Princes office to maintaine the truth , supposed to be otherwise determined . Bishop Bilson saith ; that the Princes lawfull power is to command for truth . Maister Willet telleth vs ; that the Prince in his kingdome is neither the mysticall head , nor ministeriall head , but a politike head of the Church , and to see that euery member doe his office and dutie ; and he vseth these words : Neither doe we giue vnto the Prince absolute power ( then no supremacy ) to make ecclesiasticall lawes . And his Maiesty is witnesse , that many other Protestant Confer . 14 Ian. an. 1603. p. 82. 83 Preachers before him , were content to passe ouer that title with silence , which they would not performe in such audience , if in opinion they did maintaine that supreame ecclesiasticall prerogatiue in Princes . And to adde one former example more : Doctor ● . So●e against Barrow & Greenwood , &c. p. 17. 18 Some writeth thus : The greatest Prince whatsoever , is to obey such as teach them out of Gods booke . And doth not disallow this sentence in such sence . From this ohedience there is no exception nor exemption of Kings , nor Princes , be they neuer so great , if they haue soules , and be Christian men , they must be subiect to some Bishop , Priest , or other Prelate .

The fourth Reason confuted , and returned CHAP. V.

THe fourth Reason is thus deliuered . When the King is established in his Throne by common consent of the Kingdome : ( here also is a contradiction to his second reason , which doth not allow of such consent ) Whosoere shall manacle the handes of his subiects , detracting all obedience , may iustly by order of law be chalenged and condemned for a disordered and rebellious person . This is the first proposition , The Argument returned vpon Protestants which I graunt vnto , and thereby I frame this second : But ordinarily Protestant preachers and professors doe thus manacle the hands of Subiects , and detract all obedience as is most manifest in their publike positions and practises before , and more amply to be recited hereafter : Ergo : they may iustly by order of law be challenged and condemned for disordered and ●ebellious persons .

Let vs heare the rest of his Silogisme : All Popish priests , saith he , Priests cleered , and prooued innocent . do dissolue the oth of obedience to all Protestant gouernors : Ergo , How slaunderous and false this assumption is , I haue proued before ; and the duetifull behauiour of Catholikes in all partes of the worlde to their Protestant Princes , not any at this present with consent of their priestes denying obedience , ( the case of Protestant Ministers and Subiects in diuerse places , being in contrary practise and experience , ) giueth condemnation to his Asser●ion . Secondly , all the Authorities which he bringeth from Cardinall Tollet , Massouius , and others , priuate men , intreate of such as be nominatim excommunicate . In which state there is not any one Protestant gouernor at this time ; neyther can any iust feare thereof be reasonably apprehended , by the Popes generall proceedings in this behalfe , except any Protestant prince ( which God forbid ) shoulde be incited by such vnchristian spirites as this Discouerer seemeth to be possessed with , to exceede all others in persecuting Catholikes , or offering indignities to the church of Christ . Thirdly , I answer , that the opinions of Tollet , Massouius , Panormitane , Gregorius de Valentia , Bannes , and the Author of Philopater ( all the priuate Writers hee aleadgeth in this place ) though they did approue ( as they doe destroy ) his conceit ; yet such priuate men can neither make a dogmaticall principle , nor publike position , by which his promise was to make probation . And in this his affirming , That all priests doe dissolue the oath of obedience to all Protestant Gouernors , the Authority which bindeth them all to such opinion , can be no lesse , then a Dogmaticall and publique Doctrine , And these may also suffice for his next obiections , from the practise of Pope Gregory 7. Pius 5. and Gregory 9. To whom I farther aunswere in particular .

And first to Gsegory the 7. who as this man vrgeth , absolued all from obedience to Excommunicates . I answer for all Catholikes in generall : That this nothing concerned Protestants , then not thought of in the world , neither any hereticks ( then not raigning ) Fox to . ● . Mon. in Greg 7. Will . Antil Genebr . Chron in Greg. 7. Plat in Greg. 7. but only such as he had other quarrells and contentions against .

But he vrgeth the glosse vppon Gregory the ninth , to haue both excommunicated all hereticks , and to haue absolued subiects from their obedience , and citeth for his authority , Greg. 9. Pont. lib. 5. Decret. tit . 7. Cap. 5. glossa . I answer that in the place alleadged Decr. per Greg. 13. there is no mention of any such matter , or any thing like vnto it : only there is cited the Affrican Councell in these words . Si quis Episcopus heredes instituerit extraneos à consanguinitate sua , vel haereticos etiam consanguineos aut Paganos praetulerit saltem post mortem ei Anathema dicatur , atque eius nomen inter Dei Sacerdotes nullo modo recitetur . And this Canon both for substance and antiquity opposeth it selfe against him .

Lastly , he brings againe the Bull of Pius the fift against Q. Elizabeth . To which , answere is made before : whereto I adde , that many graue and learned men haue affirmed the information of the case of Queene Elizabeth to the Apostolique See , wherevpon that censure of excommunication was awarded against her , to haue been vntrue . And that Pius the fift then Pope , and inflictor thereof , an holy man , bewailed the proceedings vppon such suggestion . And that many Catholikes of both conditions , were both sory for the censure , & it was defended by D. Sanders , D. Br●stow or any other Inglish writer , rather wishing the controuersie betwixt two Superiors th' one temporall , th' other spirituall , had bin reserued to the high Tribunal in heauen ( then so subiect to many iealosies ) had been so prosecuted in earth : among which , Cardinall Allane writeth of that matter in these wordes . Hoc tamen scimus Card. Allen . ad per. ●cu● . multos Catholicos illud factum agre tulisse , optasseque omninò vt ea res tam grauis , varijsque obnoxia suspitionibus , literis commissa nunquam fuisset , sed sublimioribus Potestatibus , Deique potissimum Iudicio reseruata , vt vel in hoc seculo , vel in altero , cum & Pontifices & Principes rationem reddent villicationis suae , de hac re controuersia decideret inter nostros Superiores . Notwithstanding , this we know , that many Catholikes did thinke hardly of that deed , and did wish , that if so great a matter and subiect to diuers suspitions , had neuer bin committed to writing , but reserued to higher powers , and most chiefly to the iudgement of God , that either in this world or in the world to come , when both Popes and Princes must render account of their Bailifewicke , the controue●sie of this matter should be tried betweene our Superiors . Then , if the case was such , between the Pope , and that deceased Princes ; I cannot conceaue , how any equally minded Protestant can be of minde , that the Pope so strictlie commaunding obedience of all Cathol●kes in England to his Maiestie , will , or can be so contrarie vnto himselfe , to publish a contrarie commaund against a King , offering in publique Parliament , to meet with the Roman Church Kings speach parliam . 1. all Nouelties taken away ( we wish no more ) and in the meane time acknowledging the same Roman Church to be our Mother Church , and that his minde was euer free from perfection or thralling his subiects in matters of conscience . Of such a King , Bellarmine himself cited against vs will be witnes , that he thinketh Be●lar . ●ib. 5. de Rom. pont. c. 7 the Pope cannot so proceed against him .

The fift Reason confuted , and returned . CHAP. VI.

THe fift Reason is nothing in effect , but the former confuted : now againe repeated with malice , and suting also with the three next ensuing , and is thus obiected :

Whosoeuer suggesteth a Doctrine of forcible deposing of Princes from their thrones , are therein manifestly rebellious . Let vs grant this Maior Proposition : then thus I make my Minor . But Protestants be such , as both their publike opinions and practis●s before , and after conuince . Ergo , they are manifestly rebellious by this disputer .

Now let vs heare what dogmaticall authority , principle , or position he produceth to iustifie his accusation : Th●t all Popish Priests ( his phrase ) defend and approue these things . For although I haue confuted this in the former , yet I will rather multiply repetitions , then leaue any suspicion behinde me , to omit any of his oppositions .

First , for the violent deposing of Kings and Emperours , hee citeth Costerus , to say ; That the power to depose Kings and Emperours , was euer in the Popes of Rome ; penes Romanos pontifices , which he translateth peculiar to the Pope . But he must vnderstand , that here is no speach of violence , violent deposing , or forcible d●posing , which is his proposition to be proued . We will proceede . He citeth Molma to say ; that , Depositio Imperatoris ex iusta causa pertinet ad summum Pontificem .

But first againe , heere is no speech of force or violence , and so not to your purpose . Secondly , there is at this present , a great difference betweene the Emperour which is created by the Popes I. Cerem . Rom. eccl. in Coron. Imperat. lawes , and with his solemnities , and from whom he receiueth his sword : and a King that is absolute , & not so created , or depending for power or iurisdiction , such as our Soueraigne in England is . And Molina himselfe , cited in this place by our accuser , insinuateth the same d●sparitie and reason in these words : Quia Imperator est tanquam minister summi pontificis , &c. Because the Emperour is as it were the Popes Minister , exercising the sword of Iurisdiction at his will ; ad natum summi pontificis : which is altogether vntrue of his Maiestie , not so receiuing or exercising authority .

To Bellarmine I haue answered before , that his opinion is against this discouerer . For hee alloweth not of censures against Princes , where they grow not to violence and persecution . Concerning Doctor Saunders and Philopater , I haue already spoken sufficiently , and yet their citations doe not conclude violence in the case of excommunicates , whereof they intreat . Bannes alleaged to defend ; That an Apostata King , may be deposed by the Common-wealth , meaneth such a Prince as Iulian the Apostata , a renowncer of Christianity , which is properly termed Apostata . And conformable is the Allegation from Simancha , which be all the authorities hee bringeth to binde all Popish ( his Epitheton ) Priests to defend violent deposing of Kings : which not one of those particular writers affirme , but was both the publike opinion & practise of protestants , in a●l opportunities & occasions , as is often remembred in this defence .

Now let vs heare the supposed publike practise in this point . He alleageth three authorities only of particular men , which sentence be not sufficient to pronounce their iudgement or allowance to be publike . But let them be vrged to his greatest aduantage . The first is , against Henry the third of France , excommunicate , from the Author De iusta abdic . Henr. 3. affirming onely ; that the French subiects which armed aganst him , did it secura conscientia , with secure conscience , as against a violater of publike faith , violatore publicae fidei .

I answer : first , this is no English case , except this discouerer will inrole his Maiestie in the number of excommunicates , and violaters of publike fidelitie , which is most iniurious to his Highnesse , and in Catholikes , would be called trecherous . And yet this Author doth onely affirme ; that they did it , or might doe it in conscience . But hee doth not iustifie ( which this man must generally proue ) that all those , and the rest of the French subi●cts , were bound in conscience to take Armes against him : and yet , if he had so said , there is an euident inequality assigned betweene the cases in comparison .

His second authority , is an opinion of Diuines , in a Colledge at Salaman , in Spaine , ( no publike authoritie , if true ) that all Catholikes which did not follow the O-neale , did sinne mo●tally . Queene Elizabeth then being excommunicate , and that Xistus quintus did rather allow , then app●oue their opinion . But first , who seeth not the disparity of those Princes , before compared . Secondly , that schoole followed their information ; which being vntrue , their sentence faileth , which the experience it selfe of that time , conuinceth : for most Catholikes practised the contrary to that iudgement , resisted O-neele , and defended Queene Elizabeth . And Xistus quintus , neuer did see the resolution of that schoole . The practises of Protestants , are no nouelties in such affaires .

The sixt Reason confuted , and returned . CHAP. VII .

THus he proceedeth to his sixt Reason : Whosoeuer doe intend , designe , or practise the murther of Princes , must necessarily be holden for desperate Traytors . This is the Maior proposition which I grant , and thus proceede in forme : But Luther , Munster , Suinglius , Caluine , Bezae , Spiphanius , Cranmer , Ridley , Latimer , Sands , Knoxe , Goodman , and other Cleargie Protestants , with their Adherents and Disciples , did intend , designe ; and ( so much as they could ) practise such impietie , as I haue demonstratiuely proued . Ergo , they must necessarily , by this mans argument , be holden for desperate Traytors .

But against Catholikes he vrgeth : That all popish Priests , are guilty in some of these kindes : that is , intending , designing , or practising the murther of Princes . Ergo , I answer , that the late Lord Treasurer , reputed the Author of the booke intituled , The execution of Iustice , &c. was thought , in his daies , to be a man , not second to many in politicall wisedome , and affaires of Common-wealth : And I thinke , much to be preferr●d before this Discouerer , for Execut. of Iust . place and wisedome , and yet he will tell vs the quite contrary , to this assertion ; That there w●re many Catholike Priests and Bishops also in this kingdome , which , although they were depriued of their preferments , and impr●●oned by Queene Elizabeth , yet they were so farre from being contained within the circuite of this mans proposition , that they be dignified by that wise Counceller , with these titles ; faithfull and quiet subiects , very quiet subiects , inclined to dutifulnesse to the Queenes Maiesty , and the like . And for such , hee reciteth very many famous men , Doctor Heath Archbishop of Yorke , Doctor ●oole , Bishop of Peterborough , Doctor Tunstall , Bishop of Durham , Bishops of Winchester , Carlile , Ely , Lincolne , together with Abbots , Deanes , &c. Therefore by this authority , the obiecters generall proposition , of all Priests guiltinesse , cannot be true . But he vrgeth ; That all Priests professe it lawfull to take Armes against their Kings ; and what other meaning ( saith he ) can Armes haue , but blood ?

I haue answered him before that this is false , by the cheefe Protestants declaration of many Priests quietnesse , loyalty , and obedience . Secondly , I tell this disputer , that he hath made a sound argument , to proue all the Protestant Ministers of England , Scotlund , France , Heluetia , Germany , Sweueland , and other Nations before , with their confederate Protestants , conuinced of sedition , for taking , or perswading Armes against their Soueraignes , to be likewise guilty of the blood and murther of those Princes , in their designements .

If Armes can haue no other meaning but onely blood , as this bloody Sentencer affirmeth ; for all the world can witnesse that they tooke Armes against their Rulers : But against Catholikes , which know both an offensiue , and defensiue warre , his bloody iudgement can giue no deadly wound , though he had prooued ( which is most falsly spoken ) that all Priests professe it lawfull to take Armes against their Kings : which I haue before returned vpon the Protestant profession . And yet how doubtfully , and with equiuocation , ( against which , he● argueth in his ninth Reason ) doth he speake in this place : neither expressing in what case , or against what Prince , A●mes are defended lawfull .

But I will answer him ( as before ) except he will make his Maiesty ( for whom hee would seeme to pleade ) an vsurping Tyrant , an Apostata from Christian faith , incorrigible in impiety , and a monster ( as it were ) among men , it is a protestant doctrine , and no Catholike opinion , that either blood must be exacted , or Armes taken against a Prince .

Seeing his owne reputation hath no happier successe , let vs examine his authorities . He first bringeth the Author of Iust . abdic . Hen. 3 , to say ; that Tyrannum occidere honestum est : it is honest to kill a Tyrant . Well , then King Iames is a Tyrant by this iudgement : otherwise , both he and his Author , be Iudges against himselfe ; for that writer expresly nameth a Tyrant . And to shew this mans further dutifull affection to his Prince , hee must meane an Reade Peter N●u●r . Domin . So●o , Cuner , and others . vsurping Tyrant , which is no King , but an intrudor : for by the common opinion , such a Tyrant is vnderstoode in this case , by the generall Councell of Constance , to which , that Author , and all Catholikes must giue assent , and yeelde obedience . But such Diuines ( as this discouerer ) which are aboue generall Councells , the whole Church of Christ , and all authority , may make Tyrants of whom they list , and depose Princes at their pleasures . And this futeth best with their holy spirit : For if euery man among them , may iudge of all Fathers , Popes , Councells , Scriptures , and authorities , which be the highest , they may with lesse presumption , ch●llenge to be Superiors , and sit in iudgement of all terrene , and temporall businesse .

He bringeth no other authors for priests intending , designing or practising the murther of Princes , but onely citeth Mr. Rainolds , Gregorius de valentia , & Simancha about censured heretickes , often before answered in his sence and meaning : But his holy obedience and duty can finde no other company in the christian world , for his King , and Soueraigne , but Tirants , excommunicate heretickes , and such exploded persons .

For practise in this point , he only alleadgeth three authoriiies , besides this late vnhappie Stratageme . His first testimony is from Gallobelgicus , who among other of his farre fetched intelligences should affirme , that one Arnolde in Paris ascribed the Tirannie of the Spaniards in the Indies , to the Iesuites . But Lewis Granado , Metellus Sequanus and others of greater credite , who speake dolefully , and bitterlie against that Tirannie , be of other minde : And we intreate now of Christian Princes , and not of poore Infidell and Pagan common people . Therefore if this were true , yet to no purpose , if there were no priests but Iesuites . But it is well knowne that Arnoldus was a professed enemy to that Societie , and is confuted by Montanus and others . And yet Gallobelgicus is not without his hiperbolicall Locutions .

His second example is , that Rodolphu● Comes , ( which he translateth Duke Rodolph ) foght against the Emperor Henry the 4. excommunicate . To which he ioyneth the often repeated Bull of Pius the fift against Queene Elizabeth , both answered before . And still this man cannot ballaunce his Soueraigne with any but excommunicates , Indian infidells , Tirants , Apostataes &c.

Lastly ; he addeth the late conspiracie against the house of Parliament . But as he hath heard , that all priests were not so well pleased in the former proc●dings with the deceased Queene : So I trust they will be innocent in so vile a practise against our present Soueraigne ; And it is most certaine that this example serueth not for his purpose , of prouing all priests to intend , designe , or practise such things . For first , the cheefest priest the Pope had absolutely fo●bidden all disobedience , and strictly commanded obedience vnto his Maiesty , by English Catholi●es , priests , or other , and by his absolute power of spirituall superiority , as by these words ; Quia Papaiubet , the obedience , and prohibe● the disobedience . The cheefe superior of priests in England , in spirituall things , the Archpriest had so receiued , and promulged the same command long since , in August last . And vpon his first notice of the pretended wickednesse ▪ condemned it by his particular letters for an intollerable , vncharitable , scandalous , and desp●r●te fact , against the order of holy Church , against the prescript of a generall Councell , against the s●ntence of the best writers of this age , against the Popes commandement : and consorting with the error of Wickliffe , ( the protestant Saint and Martyr ) condemned in the Catholike generall councell at Constance .

Then , if the secular priests of England will acknowledge , eyther the Archpriest for their superior at home , or the Pope at Rome , ( as all , both regular and others must doe ) neyther all the priests of this Nation , nor any one ( except disobedient to his superior ) was guilty of this conspiracy , or did , or doth eyther intend , designe , or practise such irreligious wickednesse . And both holy and happy is that religion to be esteemed , among whose professors in this The di●course of the la●e intended treas●n . Kingdome , so many thousands , and in the daies of so manifold disgraces and miseries for that faith , so small a company of cheefest Agents , or Assistants are charged with that offence .

Wee haue heard , read , seene , and tasted of many conspiracies and rebellions by protestants , and more and greater by them , ( proportion of time and Countries obserued ) where both Kings , whole kingdomes , and Common-weales , haue beene put in hazard , and yet they were dogmaticall men in that profession , accounted Prophets , Apostles , Euangelists , and conspired thousands for euery one particular person in this recited : and yet their conspiracies were not condemned by their Preachers and Doctors , but iustified and applauded , not forbidden , but commanded by their spirituall maisters , and their rebells , slaine in such actuall seditions against Princes , not reproued , but approued and canonized for holy Martyrs . When all things be contrary in this case , by the protestant disourse it selfe of this tragedy . And if proofe can be made , of any one of holy priestly order , to haue beene an Agent in so vnholy businesse , he will be as much abandoned of all good priests and Catholikes , as of the protestants themselues , for that disloyalty . The ignominy and perpetuall reproach wherewith the names of vnhappy Watson , and Clarke are stained , with all of our religion , will be a witnesse in any case of like comparison .

The seuenth Reason confuted , and returned . CHAP. VIII .

HIs seuenth Sillogisme is this : Seeing it is in a manner all one to commit a villante , and to commend it , we may argue , that whosoeuer shall iustifie acts of treasons and parricides , are not vnguilty of the same crimes . To this I grant , and adde , ( which is euidently proued before ) that the cheefest teachers and professors of Protestancy , doe not onely iustifie , but commend , canonize for holy , encourage , command , and reward such proceedings : therefore they are not vnguilty of the same crimes .

And whereas he setteth downe for his lesse Proposition : But all Priests doe iustifie such heinous parricides . Ergo , I haue proued before , both by their owne authority , continuall experience , and at this time , that such assertions be most false and slanderous .

But hee will maintaine his sentence , because Bellarmine saith ; Many Popes haue worthily depriued many Princes , of their regall authority . The examples be in Leo 3. Fredericke 1. Otho 5. and Childericke , King of France . To Obiections of which nature , I haue often answered before . And sincere dealing ▪ would haue alleaged the true causes of such processe , with those Princes , which take away the enuie of this matter , proue a flat disparitie in the cases compared , and bring eternall shame to many Protestant rebellions , and often deposing Princes for meaner quarrells , and for no true cause at all . The rebellions and attempts be too many to be recited . The examples of Princes deposed , or depriued of their Kingdomes , Countries , or territories , by Protestants , ( meaner then Popes ) be more in so short a time , then in all the papall gouernment , Queene Mary of Scotland , the King of Spaine , and Enfanta in Flanders , the Emperor in diuers parts of Germany , and elsewhere , in former time , the present Emperour in Hungary , the Prince of Transyluania , the Prince of Geneua , Marquesse of Embden , Duke of Loraine , king of Denmarke , king of France , king of Sweueland , in their territories surprized , inuaded , taken , sold to enemies , or kept by rebbells , ( no such thing in the Popes cases , neuer making themselues the richer by others losses ) yeelde testimony in this businesse .

Next commeth in a gratias agimus , for the death of King Henry the third of France , by the Author of the booke , de iusta abdicat . Hen. 3. which was a Catholike . But I tell him , that also a Catholike , Doctor Barkeley , a professor at Mussipont , hath confuted that booke , which also may serue for other citations from thence , which I haue answered before .

He accuseth Cardinall Alane , for approuing the rendering of Dauontore , vnto the hands of the King of Spaine , the true owner . By which , he condemneth himselfe , to be within the compasse of his owne conclusion of rebellion , and to iustifie such acts of treason : for all the world can witnesse , that Towne truly to belong to that King . Then , not the surrendering of it to the lawfull Prince , ( which hee condemneth ) but the wrongfull withholding of it , ( which he approueth ) was treason and rebellion .

And such as this discouerer is , such also the rest of his Clergy protestant brethren in England , must bee esteemed , euen in this point : for in their name , the first defence of those disobedient and seditious Netherlanders ▪ was vndertaken . And so , both by publike positions , and practises , they teach and iustifie actes of treason , and rebellion , both in themselues , and their euangelicall brethren , so many yeares , in so many disloyall attempts , rapines , intrusions , dis-inheritings , deposings , piracies , murthers , and extreamest outrages , against their naturall and true Soueraignes ; and not in one onely act and oration , ( one of Gallobelgicus excessiue reportes ) made of the death of Henry the third in France . Ergo , Protestanrs are not vnguilty of these crimes .

The eight Reason confuted , and returned vpon Protestants . CHAP. IX .

THus he frameth his next Argument . Those Snakes that do● naturally sting , so soone as they get warmth , may not be harbored in the bosome of the Common-wealth . To which proposition I say , concedo : & further adde by such assertion , that the protestant Preachers , and professors of the reformed Churches , may not be harbored in any kingdome , or ciuill Country : for they are proued before , naturally to sting , ( and kill , if they can ) so soone as they haue obtained power to performe it . Which I will now also , more plentifully demonstrate in this chapter , when I haue exempted Catholikes from the accusation , in the second proposition ; which is : But all Priests professe rebellions , as soone as they can presume of their strength . Ergo.

His cheefest proofe of this , is from Bannes , who ( as he telleth vs ) teacheth ; that a King may be deposed , where there is euidens noticia criminis , euident knowledge of his sinne . I answer ; That such opinion is to be reproued , as against , not onely Cunerus Nauarre , &c. but the great Laterane generall Councell , to which , Bannes , and all Catholikes , must submit their sentences : which also dischargeth vs of this forged slaunder , and condemneth the accuser , of vniust calumniation .

But he vrgeth further from the same Author , holding the English Catholikes excused ; quia non se eximunt ex superiorum potestate , nec bellum contra eos gerunt : quia non suppetunt illis vires , ob sequentia pericula : which this discouerer thus translateth ; The English Catholikes , who now doe not take Armes against the Protestants , are excused , because they want sufficient power . I answer : If this be the opinion of Bannes , he speaketh ignorantly in this case : For the Pope himselfe , Gregory the thirteenth , had declared , for the instruction of the vnl●a●ned , that wee might performe all duties of obedience , notwithstanding any censure . And this we may proue by the next obiection it selfe , of this accuser ▪ acknowledging how the Pope dispensed ( as he termeth his declaration ) That the Catholikes in England , might professe a large obedience : ( his owne words ) notwithstanding the excommunication of the Queene .

But where he addeth this restraint ; rebus sic stantibus , and that it was recalled by Xistus the fift , in the yeare 1588. when the Spaniards pretended inuasion . I answer in the first case : That Cardinall Allane , better acquainted in these affaires , than any protestant Writer , so long after in England , relateth the Popes declaration , for Cardin. All. ad pers●cut . Angl. Catholikes obedience to Q●eene Elizabeth , without any restraint or limitation : neither doth this man discouer where hee findeth such restricting clause . And as for Pope X●stus Reuocation , if any such was , ( which he rather imagineth , then prooueth ) it is not in force in any opinion ▪ not being published .

The case of the Earle of Tyrone , whatsoeuer it was , is not now imputed against him , as his libertie and fauour in England , since then be witnesse . Therefore it might better be suppressed , than vrged by this discouerer .

Hitherto I haue answered to all the obiections of this disputer , against Catholike religion , shewing the innocency thereof in the offences obiected , and that Protestants be guilty in all , and euery of the pretended crimes . And in that order , I haue made returne of euery Argument , vpon the discouerer , and his owne profession . But seeing his confusion and rep●tition of the same , or eq●iuolent reasons , was such , as ( I haue noted before ) that I could not giue him so ample allowance in that kinde , as his curtesie deserued , except I would fall into the like repeating error , I haue reserued some paiment to this place . Before performance whereof , I desire my Reader to remember the substance of his maior propositions , in all his syllogismes , that the less●r and minors with their consequence , may be better considered . Then thus he writeth : Whosoeuer professe any ciuill power soueraigne ouer Kings , directly , or indirectly , deny necessary right of election , or of succession of Princes , & e. shall manacle the hands of subiects , detracting all obedience , suggest a doctrine of forcible deposing Princes from their thrones , intend , designe , or practise the murther of Princes , iustifie acts of treasons , and parricides . And sn●kes that doe naturally sting ▪ so soone as they get warmth , are sed●●ious , intollerable , may be challenged and condemned for disordered and rebellious are manifestly rebellious , desperate traitors , & not to be harbored in the bosome of the Common-wealth . This is the general Maior proposition in all his eight recited Arguments , being one and the same ( for the most part ) in substance and effect ; but va●ied and repeated so often , with this mans protracted malice Therefore , ioyning all these together in one , for my first proposition , granted by my aduersary for most certaine , I make this my second generall proposition . But the Cle●rgy Protestant professors and patrons , in all times and places , as opportunitie hath beene ministred ▪ were in this case described : which , ( besides my former probations ) thus I demonstrate from their most dogm●●tica●l Protest 〈…〉 Ger●any . principle , and publike professors , positions , and pract●●es .

First , Martin Luther the first knowne Protestant , was accounted so dogmaticall , principle , and publike , both for doctrine , and practise that the prime Protestants of that time , Amsdorsius , Sarcer●●s ▪ M●●●hesius , Michael , Neander , and others , honoured him Am●●orf praefat. 〈…〉 16. 〈…〉 . Carolost . A●dr . Musc ●raes . ●●germ d● d●abol . Luther . to . 1. ●●nt . germ fol. 522. 79 to . 3. fo. 334. to . 4. to . 5. fol. ●98 Colloq. mensal . fo● . 488 l. con●● . Henrie 8. in Psa. 71 &c. ●● . 3. fol 533. 326. 360. Colloq. mensal . fol 342 343. ●up . edict . Imp. with ●●ese preeminent titles , an other Saint Iohn Baptist , the third and 〈◊〉 , E●ias , the last tiumpet of God , an Angel● of God , a great Prophet , mightie in word and worke , a man according to the heart of God , the mouth of Christ , a God of Diuines , the only Diuine of Diuines , supreame Father of the Church , &c.

And himselfe giueth himselfe no inferior stile ; a faithfull Prophet , an Apostle , Euangelist , a liuing Saint , receiuing his Gospel from God , Isaias , &c. such a Maister aboue all Doctors , Popes , and Councells , may be termed a publike man , and his positions publike . Then he saith , that he careth not for Kings : and so carelesse he is in this case , that he censured king Henry the eight of England , the Marquesse of Brandenburge the Princes of the imperiall orders , the Princes of Germany , the Duke of B●unswicke , to be vnworthy , eyther of obedi●nce from subiects , or life in themselues . And giuing the same doome of his owne naturall Soueraigne , George , Duke of Saxonie nameth him the calamitie of his Country , a Tyrant passing all Tyrants , Pilat , Herod , Iudas : So he scorned To. 6. germ fol. 6. Georg. Wicell . deretect . Luth. Luther . epist ad 〈◊〉 . inst. germ . ●● . potest ●ecul . li. cont. 2. Edict , Imper. the Emperour , and wrote directly against his Edicts : hee taught , that Protestants hands must be imbrued with blood , teaching that he had warrant from God to battaile against Princes : Hee telleth vs , it is the nature of the Gospel , to raise warres and seditions ; that among christians , there is no magistrate , no superior : that it is to be intreated by many prayers ( so holy a thing is rebellion in his sight , that it must be bought with prayers ) that the countrymen obey not their Princes : no law , or sillable of law can be imposed vpon christians , more then themselues will , neither by men nor Angells : there is no hope of remedy , except all humane lawes be taken away .

Munster was of the same opinion and practise , and called rebellion Cacl in act . Luth. Ann. 1525. for his religion , the warre of God ; affirming , that hee had receiued especiall commaundement from God , to warre against Kings , and had promise of victorie from heauen . And thereupon such rebellions ensued , that of his owne adherents and traiterous protestants , were slaine within the space of three mon●ths , one hundred and thirty thousands . The rebellions , murthers , and destructions which they performed and publikely practised , by words and Armes , cannot be recounted . And not onely Luther . l. captiuit Babyl l. de bell . cont. Turc . Munster in chro . pantal . chronol . fol. 121 &c. these miseries by their owne rebellions , but by Luthers doctrine ; that Christians might not fight against the Turke ; in short time , Belgrade & Rhodes were taken , Hungary was entered , King Lodowicke slaine , Buda conquered , & Verima Austrae besieged with two hundred & fifty thousand Turkish souldiers . And the Protestants of that Nation , were not content with these publike opinions and practises of rebellion in themselues against their Emperours Ferdinande and Charles , whom they persecuted and besieged , but conspired with the Turke himselfe , both against them , and the whole christian world . And their successours in Hungary , these last yeares , no better behaued themselues : these directly admitted the Turks entry : the first endeuoured to performe it , as their owne Caspaectalio hist. Symp. ad Sabell●c . Defens . Stap. contr. Illerich . & Sleid , petr. Frar . ora● . cont. Sectar . Sleidan . l. 22. letters of conspiracy , and the comming of the Bassa of Buda , against Ferdinando into Pannonia , were witnesses . And Sleydan himselfe , a German Protestant giueth testimony ; that this was the doctrine of their diuines of Magdenburge publikely teaching in defence of s●ch rebellions , that such wa●res were lawfull .

For Sweueland , the protestants themselues giue also testimony ; Sweueland . Chit . chron. an. 1593 1594. that the Catholike King thereof , was inforced by his rebellious gospellers , to make himselfe a subiect vnto their designements , and condiscend , that no Catholike should beare office in that kingdome , and catholike seruice for the King should be confined only to his owne Chappell . And what rebellions did the Protestant Petr. Fa●. orat . contr. sect. Nobillitie , by aduise of their Cleargie , raise against their Prince for this cause in former times ? And who is ignorant of their still continued seditions and rebellions ?

In Denmarke , the same dogmaticall opinions were both publikely defended and put in execution : What insurrections and rebellions Petr. Frar . sup. d●d the Protestants of that kingdome maintaine by this title ? Did they not assault the King vnder yeares , and in minority with open warres ? Did they not confederate and colleague themselues with the professed enemies of the kingdome , sell the Cities to strangers , challenge regall power to their rebellions , and such like intollerable treasons ?

Let vs come to Heluetia , and especially Geneua , the mother Church of the ●eformed , Maister Caluine , the supreame head of the Consistory there , hath told vs before ; that Princes ( not agreeing Bez. l. iur magist . in supqit . Sutclif answ. l. to suphl . with him in religion ) are rather to be spitted vpon , than obeyed ; they ●re not worthy to be numbred among men , they are bereaued of all authority . Beza , his successour in place , succceded him also both in opinion and practise , arming subiects against their Prince . And as Maister Doctor Sutliffe saith in effect , ouerthrowing all authority of Christian Kings and Magistrates , and giuing power to subiects , not onely to take Armes , but to depose and kill the Prince , if he impugne their religion . And accordingly in practise , the Protestants there , ( as Caluine himselfe , Doctor Sutliffe , Caluin Sutel . sup. kiru . pret . discipl . and the Archbishop of Canterbury be witnesses ) deposed their Soueraigne from his temporall right , and euer since , continue in that state of rebellion . And not content with rebellion to one and their owne Lord and Ruler , they celebrated a Councell , wherein it was concluded ; that King Francis the second , then king Petr. Fra● . orat . contr. sectar . de●ens . Reg. & relig. of France , his wife , the Queene , his children , Queene mother , the Nobility , and all good Magistrates of that kingdome , should by a certaine day , by treacherous deceits , be put to death .

In Burgundy , a like Assembly and Conuenticle was called , kept , and therein decreed at Cabillon ; that three wormes must be taken forth of the world : ( these men were not content to make their opinion and practise , to one , or a few kingdomes ) first , the Church of Rome : secondly , the noble families of antient houses : and thirdly , all ciuill pollicy , gouernment , and iurisdiction . How faithfully the Protestant Netherlanders , laboured by all seditions and rebellion , so many yeares , and still perseuer to haue the canon of this holy Councell obserued ; it is too lamentable to be repeated , that subiects should maintaine it , or any Christians should applaud it .

Let vs come to France . Were not Caluine , Beza , Othomanus , Spiphanius , Claud. de sanct. de Saccad . eglif . fol 58. 55. and such publike and dogmaticall Protestants , the eggers and instruments of all those slaughters , rebellions , and oppressions in that Monarchie , wherein they tooke all law , authoritie , and Petr. Frar . sup. execution thereof , from the King and Magistrates . They conspired in one night , to rob all the Chu●ches in France : how did they depose Magistrates , fell Cities , giue the spoiles to strangers , &c. what murthering of priests and religious men , hanging , cutting , bowelling , rending , strangling , fleaing , drowning , stabbing , shooting through with gunnes and arrowes , of religious Priests , wearing chaines of their eares cut off , about their neckes ? how many were buried aliue , and little infants themselues cut in sunder , ●nforcing men to eate their vndecent parts , cut off , and rosted ; and opening the bellies when they liued , to see whether they digested them , or no ; I cease to recount the vnspeakeable tyranny of those Protestant traytors , whom no conditions , peace , or graunt , could satisfie .

After the remembred conspiracy against King Francis , his Genebr . chron. ann. 1560. Mother , wife , children , Nobles , and Magistrates at Geneua , in the yeare 1560. within two yeares after 1562. they raised such rebellions and ciuill warres against King Charles the ninth , that as Genebrande writeth , France was more endammaged by one yeares ciuill warres , than in all warres past by strangers . The King of Nauarre , and Duke Nyuers , with others , were slaine ; the Duke of Guise treacherously murthered , by Pultrotus Canickname in France , for that fact suborned by Beza , and the Protestant Admirall , and they enforced the Kings to grant them peace and conditions , but they kept neither : for in the yeare 1567. they made a new rebellion , and being subdued , accept againe of peace , but Genebr . chron. 1567. Geneb . chro● . in these ye●●es . breake it againe : for in the yeare 1569. they rebell : and in the next yeare 1570. and yet in the yeare 1575. breake againe into rebellion . And such were the miserable murthers and cala●●●ies which they brought to that distressed kingdome , that i● 〈…〉 first ciuill warres and rebellions , aboue 100000. were slaine , as Gaspar Coligne , a principall Captaine in those rebellions , witnessed in an oration before the King . And when Charles the ninth forbade by Edict , that no such Protestant should publikely H●stor F●ucase Popelim . li. 27. stat Relig. in gal . Sub. Carol. 9. lib. 3 pag. 347. preach , thirteene thousands of them armed , assembled at such a sermon , in the suburbes of Paris it selfe , and their rebellious malice and disobedience , did not onely extend to their liuing Kings , but indured against the dead : as they most rebelliously persecuted King Francis when he liued , so being dead , they burnt his heart in rebellious de●pight . So they dealt with King Lewis the eleuenth , defaced his Image , dismembring euery part thereof , and burned his body .

Concerning this vnited Kingdome of Britaine , I haue spoken before sufficientlie , for the confusion of all Protestants thereof for euer . I will adde something , and first for Scotland . Was not their Gospell there planted by force and violence to Princes , and by the publique Dogmaticall decrees of Caluin , and Knoxe Knox hist of the church of Scotland pag. 143. 144. Holins. hist. Scot. anno 1546. Knox sup. pa. 217 218. 256 258. Holinsh. sup. ann. 1559. Knox pag. 265. 268. 269. Holinsh. sup. Knox sup. pag. 501. 502. 503. & vsque pag 531. Holinsh. supr. an. 1566. Dang . pos. l. 1. c. 6. Apostles , and their conspiracies and practise ? I referre the Reader to Knoxe himselfe , to know what publique subscriptions and conspiracies to this ende , what authoritatiue Sermons to the Religious , and Monasteries , what pro●estations of violences against the Queenes Edict , and Parliament , what contempt of Authoritie , they vsed , in commaunding the Nobles vnder penaltie of excommunication to assist them , the Bishoppes and Cleargie , not to resist them , writing , and sending to all their Sect , to ioyne in Rebellion with them ; no Lawe or commaundement of Prince obeyed . They tooke vppon them the Regality it selfe , they coyned money by their Authoritie , seazed the Inns and renounced all obedience vnto their Princes , terming her obedient subiects and partakers , a Faction , and threatned them with punishment for Treason . How wickedly did they reiect hir Authority in Parliament , and made themselues Supreame , both in Ecclesiasticall and Temporall businesse ? Did they not murther the Kings and Queenes Secretarie in their sight , and intended the same to the Queene her selfe , then great with childe with our present Soueraigne , so to haue brought all into their owne handes , the Issue and Posteritie Regall taken away ? And when that holy last recited Queene , Mother to his Maiestie was first imprisoned , then expelled her Kingdome by these Rebelles , and escaped murthering , her Husband being slaine by their villanies . How did they condemne all decrees of the State , deposed the Bishops as Antichristian by their supremacie ? What comminatory letters did they write to his Maiestie which now Raigneth , then young in yeares , and the Nobles of that Land to effect their designements ? did not they wholy disclaime from the Kinges Authority , and not that only , but made him their subiect in prescribing lawes vnto him ? did not they surprise and imprison him as Declarat . B 1. 2. 3. 4 parliament . Sect. ann. 1584. their Vassall ? what Traiterous and more than Rebellious excommunications and censures did they impose vppon him ? how many Declarat . 1582. parlia . 1584. c. 7. Conspiracies did they contriue , how did they force him at Striueling , besiedged him , tooke the Castle , imprisoned the King with violence , v●till he had signed their high willes and pleasures .

For England I haue spoken alreadie more then I desired , had not such wicked accusations against vs vrged me to breach of silence . And now I will only say , that the publique and Dogmaticall positions and practises of Rebellions by the greatest Protestant subiects of this Kingdome , the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffolke , ( againe and againe ) so many Nobles to be pas●ed with obliuion , all their whole Cleagie , Archbishoppe , Bishops and others , not only against the law of God and their Queene , but oaths of fidelitie to K. Henrie the eight , that I am bold to affirme , no Protestant obi●ctor can giue instaunces in any time or Nation of Catholique Regiment or Subiects , where so great and manifolde outrages haue been committed . And yet that which Catholikes lost by the new proce●dings , so many thousands of Monasteries , Religious howses , Churches , their Religion , Sacraments , Praiers and Sacrifice for their soules sakes and their posteritie , Corrodies , Pensions , and Education for their children , was a greater losse to them and their prof●ssion , then euer Protestants with their new Faith will bestow , recompence , or equiualent benefite vppon the world .

Now let vs reuiew this Disciferers examples of practise agenst Henrie the third of Fraunce , the resistment of this present King of that countrie , the Bull of Pius Quintus against Queene Elizabeth , Henrie the fourth Emperour excommunicate , Leo the third , Fredericke the first , Otho the fift , and King Childericke . Henry the second in like case , which be these practicall obiections hee can finde woorthy of reciting against vs , since the first conuersion of Kings and Countries to Christ . Among all which tragedies , let him single forth what kingdome , country , territory , or towne , the Pope possesseth , detaineth , or keepeth against any of those , or any other christian Prince . And compare them with the Protestants proceedings with Princes , in this short time of their new Gospel , and ●heir vsurped ministeriall and popular outrages , rebellions , exc●mmunications , deposings , and violence to Princes , doe farre exceede , both for number , and extreamest iniuries . And so many Countries , States , Townes , and territories , both violently taken , and still kept from the true possessors , and reserued to themselues , as Princes ; doth not onely argue the impietie of iniuries past , and a continued state of rebellion , but giueth demonstration of their continued opinions , to practise the same generally in all times and places , as occasions shall giue them power and aduantage . Ergo , Protestants , ( and not Catholikes ) by this mans arguments , be seditious , tray terous , rebellious , intollerable .

The ninth Reason confuted , and returned . CHAP. X.

THus he frameth his next Reason ; Whosoeuer doth perfidiously either denie , or violate with men of diuerse religion , an oath , &c. must necessarily be esteemed of them , a person perfidious and treacherous .

This is his Maior proposition , wherein he must needes make some exceptions of the lawfulnesse ▪ &c. of the thing sworne , or else the Protestants which swore loyalty to Queene Mary , in her Fathers life , might not safely take Armes against her , to aduance a forged title : and the Protestants which had sworne obedience to the Pope , could not denie their subiection ; and whatsoeuer wickednesse is sworne , must be performed : as Saint Paul , and Saint Iohn Baptist death , because their death was sworne by Herod and the Iewes . But if his proposition be true , Protestants be perfidious and treacherous , by the example of England recited , and all the Countries before remembred : where Protestants broke their oaths of loyalty with their Princes , kept not oaths of conditions with subiects . But he thus obiecteth : Popish Priests are guilty of such perfidie . And in his prosecuting of this assertion , he disputeth against aequiuocation , although the interrogatorie be vniustly proposed , and chargeth vs with these words of Cardinall Tollet ; Cum Iudex non vindice petit Iuramentum vel contra Iustitiam , licet vti Tollet . li. 4. Inst. Sacerd. c. 21. 22. aequiuocatione secundum mentem suam contramentem Iudicis , vt puta quaerenti fecisti ne illud ? respondeat non feci , intelligendo inter se non hoc tempore aut vt narrem tibi aut aliquid simile . Let this be the case as himselfe hath alleaged it . Th●n for Tollet , sometimes a Iesuite , I cite another Iesuite , famous among Casuists Emanuel Sa , who in his Aphorismes , writeth of this matter ●n these words ; Quidam Sa Aphoris . mendacium 4. dicunt eum qui non tenetur respondere ad intentionem Rogantis , posse respondere aliquid subintelligendo , vt non esse , scilicet it a vt dicere es teneatur , velse non habere , scilicet vt ei det , licet alij id non admittunt & fortè potiori ratione . Whereby it is manifest , that all Catholikes doe not allow of aequiuocation , where he is not bound to answer the Iudge , or examiner proceeding vniustly , and not according to law and equitie : that a man in such case , is not bound to answer at all , if the question concerneth his life , libertie , or fame , his Maiesty , his honourable Councell : and the Protestant Bishops haue consented Conference 14. Ianuar. 1604. vnto , in the conference with Puritans , whether he may aequiuocate or no , they doe not mention : but other Protestants , as Cranmer , Luther , Caluin , and others , haue both taught and practised it as lawfull , and so doe all English Puritans , and most Protestants , ( euen in religious businesse ) which all men of learning doe condemne , as I will proue in this chapter .

For our excuse in this place and question , Catholikes do generally agree , that to aequiuocate before a competent Iudge , ( such as we allow all Magistrates in England , in temporal causes , in as ample Cap. quacunque act. 22. q. 5. Naurar . c. 12. Numb . 8. D. Thom. 2. 2. q. 89. act. 7. ad 14. manner , as if they were of our religion ) keeping the order of law , is a mortall sinne ; so the canon law it selfe , so Nauarre , Saint Thomas , and others teach . And if it be defended by diuers Catholikes , ( as Protestants also ) that in case of vniust and iniurious interrogatorie , aequiuocacion may be vsed , I desire to know against what vertue this discouerer can discouer this to be a sinne . First , it is not against iustice ; for wee supposed the interrogatory to be vniust , then the iniustice is in the Iudge , exceeding his commission , and offering iniurie to the Respondent ; and not in him which neither contradicteth any law , or offereth iniustice to him , to whom no iustice belongeth in that cause .

Secondly , agenst verity and truth it cannot be , for the thing affirmed or denied , is true in the sence of the Respondent , as we still suppose , and he is not bound to answer in other sence , as before : yea , to aunswere in the sence of the iniu●ious examiner , rather seemeth a breach of law and dutie with him , then an obseruation thereof . Therefore , seeing as Saint Augustine writeth , mentiri , to lie , is eontra ●entemire , to goe against a mans minde and meaning ; there is neither lie , vniustice , or any sinne in this case ; but onely in the ex●m●ner , there is vsurp●tion against the lawe , and iniurie to the examminate : and this doctrine of equiuocation in this sence , is no late inuention . The Sc●ipture telleth vs , how Iacob told his father Isaac , that hee was his first begotten Sonne Esau , Gen cap. 27. Ierem. ● . 38. ver. 26. 27. which was not so in the sence of the Patriarke Isaac : such aequiuocacion also the Prophet Ieremie vsed to the people , when following the aduice of the King , hee told otherwise then the truth , in their sence , one thing for another : so the Scriptures affirme in diuers sences , that Saint Iohn Baptist was E●ya● , and was not . Our Sauiour himselfe said to his Apostles , he would not goe vp to Ierusalem , and yet secretly he went : he fained to his Disciples , going to Emaus , that he would go further . Concerning , the Popes dispensacion in oths , when this discouerer can proue abuse in Catholike doctrin , in such cases he shal haue further answer : in the mean time , he may vnderstand that meaner superiors then Popes , may irritate the oaths and vows also of their subiects . So the father may Gloss. 32. q. 2. Mul●er , 31. §. 34. Sa v. princeps §. 3. deale with his childe in diuers cases , and other superiors of their subiects : so temporall Princes may doe , and also legittimate their children , not legitimate , as many teach : so King Hen●y the eight both thought and practised with his daughters , Queene Mary , and Queene Elizabeth , whom he had illegittimate , and after , declared the contrary , and made them legittimate by statute .

Now I plainely answere to his proposition of breaking othes , That all Catholikes of this kingdome , both priests and others , doe , and ought , sincerly to acknowledge his Maiestie to be as absolute and really true King of all his kingdomes , and ouer all his subiects of what profession or calling soeuer , as euer any Catholike King his predecessor was either of them iointly vnited or disioyned , and that asmuch temporall dutie and obedience belongeth vnto him , and in their degrees to his honourable Counsaile and inferior Magistrates , concerning the affaires of Common-wealth ; and that among other duties , to denie to sweare , or violate an oath , iuridicè , iustly , and according to course of law proposed , and to equiuocate therin , is a sinne damnable : and that it is the error of Wickliffe and later Protestants to be of other minde . But seing the internall cogitations of men , only naturally knowne to God , defiling the soule , and not offensiue to externall peace , and gouernment , how wicked soeuer they be of their owne nature , belong only to the consistory of God , and internum forum , we hope it will not be offensiue , to entreat that the naturall consciences be not arrained in externall courts , which the Pope himself doth not , nor can doe , especiallie where no crime can be obiected , Nauarr c. 18. Num. 29. D. Tho. 2. 2. q. 6. articul. 1. 2. Gaiet . 16. cap. Quando de poenit d. 1. c. si omnia q. 1. c. 2. de maiorit . & obed. cap. 2. de Confess . Conference 14. 1604. pag. 92. where there is no such law ordained , where not so much as a semi-plea , probation , or any accusation at all is precedent with the iudge , or knowne to the conueuted : And this is not only conformable to the lawe of nature , conscience , and canonicall proceedings , euen allowed and practised in England , but publikely confirmed by his Maiesty , the Archbishoppe of Canterburie , the Nobles and Bishops of this kingdome in the late conference . The words of his Maiesty be , Nemo cogitur detegere suam turpitudinem in such a case , and that fame and scandall must be looked vnto , with a condemning of the Statish protestants in that point . The Archbishopps words be these , If any article did touch Pag. ●● . the party anie way , either for life , libertie , or scandall , he might refuse to answere , neither was he vrged therevnto ; semblable was the consent of all . And if this Rule was generall , I hope Catholikes be not exempted .

As concerning interrogatories de futuris contingentibus , first things hereafter to haue an vncertaine being , conce●ne not a present certaine state , secondlie the Angeiles themselues naturallie know them not ; thirdly the soule of Man is ignorant of them ; no creature doth by naturall science vnderstand them : for all such knowledge is either by the obiect present , that is not in this case , or by the effect , that is to come , or by the cause which is here most vncertaine . Therefore , the examine of such things we intre●te may be left to God , who onely in that sence , is Scrutat or cordis , and comprehendeth al causes more excellently then thems●l●es ; ●th●rwise it would be hard to descipher , how he himselfe knoweth such things .

B●t to speake to this obiector , concerning his protestants proceedings in dissimula●ion and aeq●●●ocating ; Was not the behauiour of Luther the E●angelist , so vile in this kinde , that neuer any pill●ry-mate so beh●ued himselfe , as his owne friends , Fox , Sleiden , and oth●r Protestants giue demonstration , and not only in Fox 2. in Luth. Sleidan lib. 1. Staphil apolog Cocl . in act Luther . ciui●l but d●uine matters ▪ where , b● all iudgement , no aequiuocation may be allowed : yet at his pleasure now , he appealed to Pope , now d●●i●d it now recanted his errors , presently defended them , now s●b●●tted him sel●e to Cardinall C●●etan , now refused it , now teach●ng one now another religion , a● best serued his purpose : all hi● owne writings be still witn●sses against him . So did the Protestants of England dissemble , flatter , change , and rechange , both their faith , and their fashions , to please King Henry the eight , the protector● of K●ng Edward the sixt , and Queene Elizabeth , as histories and statutes are testimony to th●ir confusion . The like ( and worse ) cogging , lying aequiuocating , and dissembling was practised by Calum , as the Lord Archbishop of Canterbury , Beza , and Suru . pret diseipl . Beza ●n vi●. Ca●u . Staphil Apolog. others beare r●cord : for which , he was banished Geneua , for a lying and dissembling seducer ; and by such trades , deluded the Artizans and ●it●zens there , the second ti●e restord himself , & obtaind principallity by such meanes . So also he ●oosened the Tygurines , and among his Dis●iples , Iura per●●ra , se●ua fidem ( scili●et Calui●ia●um ) was made a dogmatical princ●ple . In England , Cramner the p●otestant Archbishop o● Canterbury in his time , and the most ●ubli●e man of that profession , cannot be excused , ( Fox hims●lfe being Iudge ) from c●unterfaiting the hands of 50. conuoca●●on Fox 10. ● in C●●nmar . men to giue a lying credit to his false cause , as Doctor Weston proued against him in the publike Schooles of Oxford ; and in the same place , Doctor Marti● made demonstration , how hee had forsworne himselfe , and beene periured in a most high degree , twice at the least , swearing obedience to the Sea of Rome . And most certaine it is , that so often he had sworne to the supremacie of King Henry the eight , and King Edward the sixt : and yet , after all this againe , in the daies of Queen● Mary , he swore a new obedience to the Pope . And Cranmer himselfe confessed , hee had sworne such contrary oathes , but excused it by aequiuocation , ( so much condemned by this accuser ) affirming , as his words doe signifie , that he spake one thing , and meant another , which in causes of r●ligion ( such as this ) all men condemne for greatest wickednesse . For what authority soeuer men haue to examine , God hath alwaies a true right vnto his honour , not to be denied . Such was the proceeding also of Bucer , and Peter Martyr , the two great Protestant professors of diuinity in Cambridge and Oxford , whom the whole English Gospel could not match ; and yet contrary to their fo●mer profession and doctrine , they taught what the Parliament would please to appoint . And I would demand , whether all the Protest●nt Adherents , to the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffolke , were not in this case of aequiuocation : and is it not both now ordinary to Pu●itans , who in acknowledging externally his Maiesties supremacy , and suppr●ssing their Presb●terie , an essentiall point of their faith , and note of their Church , doe not as they beleeue in minde . And externally communicate in Churches , ●eruice and sacraments with Protestants , whom , and whose religion they condemne to hell : and the Protestants dissemble l●kewise in the Kings supremacy .

The tenth Reason confuted and returned . CHAP. XI .

THe tenth and last Obiection , being no new Reason , but an Epilogus of the former , that is ; All Romish Priests , as Priests to professe some , and other some : All of those sed●ious posirions , are before confuted and prooued in euery particular , to be vntrue , and needeth no further answer , being before euident ; that neither all Priests , nor any one Priest , as a Priest doth , or can maintaine any one disobedient or seditious opinion .

And whatsoeuer this man , more malitiously , than truly or wisely , saith ; That all Priests in the Popish Seminaries , vow obedience to their superiors : and therefore , that the superiors maintaining such Seditious positions , the schollers are bound to their do●●rine . These assertions be most falsly obiected , for first the schollers doe not vowe any obedience to their Superiors ; and that obedience which they promise , & practise , is in obseruing the collegiall ●●●es and constitutions : as in Cambridge and Oxford , all Schollers , when they be matriculated & ingraffed to the Vniuersity , do accustome ; there is neither vow , oth , nor promise to obey them in their doctrin . Secondlie , this cannot be either vowed ▪ punished , or performed : for no Rector of any colledge is ordinarily a Reader of diuinitie in his Colledge . Thirdly , the Caholike Students neither of England or any other Nation are bound to defend their masters reading , but in matters of faith , and generallie receaued doctrine ▪ And although Bellarmine did some times read contro●ersies in Rome , And Doctor Gifford was a professor in Rhemes , Doctor Stapleton at Louaine , and the Cardinall at Doway , ( which be all readers to English , which he alleageth ; ) yet not all English Priests , nor the tenth part of them , were Auditors and Schollers to these professors : and yet there is not any one sentence alleaged , from any of them , or any other Catholike , which in true sence will bring any preiudice to our most holy and innocent cause , as I haue made demonstration .

Thus it absolutely remaineth proued ( most gratious Prince ) that if the opinion of any Diuines , concerning deposing Princes , or making warre against them by subiects , be treasonable , and not tollerable in a Common-weale , it is in the Protestant profession , by many degrees , exceeding any other , both for opinion and practise : and that the opinion of Catholikes , is the least dangerous to this , or any State .

And for this Discouerer , if his late recited Arguments , that schollers must agree with their Maisters in sentence , shall stand good , himselfe , ( with all Ministers of his profession ) being the disciples of so many seditions , and rebellions , Pedagogues , his , and their Ancestors in protestancy , must also with them be guilty in that kinde .

The Conclusion .

WHerefore ( most mercifull Soueraigne ) the poore , innocent , and distressed Catholiques of this kingedome , humbly entreat licence , to propose that question to your Maiestie , our earthly King ; which guiltlesse and holy Iob , in his greatest Iob c. ● . afflictions , so confidently in this manner , disputed with his Crea●or and King in heauen : Answer me , how great iniquities and sinnes I haue , shew vnto me my wickednesse and offences : why doe you hide your face , and suppose mee for your enemie ? you shew your power against a leafe , tossed with the winde , and doe persecute dried stubble . Non pecca●● , & in amaritudinibus moratur oculus meus : wee haue not ( as we hope ) sinned against you , and yet our eyes remaine in bitternesse of teares , and can behold nothing but matter of mourning and lamentation . Our nature and Nation , cannot turne your gracious aspect away : for all of this Dominion , and your most fauoured be therein , in the same case with your Suppliants : that ancient faith and religion which wee defend , cannot be cause to such offence ; for so all Catholikes in the world , that be , and euer were , were to be censured by their Princes , with such measure . To professe that religion in a Protestant regiment , cannot breede such variance ; for so all other Catholike subiects , in all protestant Countries , were in the same case .

And if one and the same religion , can ( by any not appearing reason ) be feared by some , subiect to suspitions at home , which thei● politicke wisedome may suppose , no forraigne protestant gouernment hath so sufficiently attended and considered ; we haue in the sincerity of our soules , without all aequiuocation or doubtfull sence , purged our selues from all jealosie of those opinions , pretences , or practises , which our enemies could discouer , worthy to b● obiected . In answer whereof we haue both made manifest proofe , that we doe not otherwise esteeme of the Protestants of this nation , then our selues , and those of the same faith with vs , in all ciuill societies and communications ; that we giue the s●me temporall dutie , loyalty , and obedience , to our Soueraigne , honour to Nobles , and loue to all ; that although we differ in religion , yet we are so farre from making Protestants odious , and vnworthy of mutuall communications in ciuill affaires , that we defend their dignities , magest●acy and rule , against men of their owne profession . We doe not assigne any soueraigne mere ciuill power ouer Princes as the Protestants in all places haue taught and practised , neither any spirituall preeminence in any externe Prelate , preiudiciall to Princes right . as our opposers doe in Presbiteries , and priuate Ministers ; we haue not denied either election , or succession of Protestant Princes , as our aduersaries haue done , both to Catholikes and Protestants , for their owne aduan●age : our doct●ine denieth no obedience to you , which was euer giuen to any Christian Prince of England , from the first , vnto the last King Henry the seuenth , by whom , and whose eldest Catholike Daughter , your Highnesse is inthroned . We doe not suggest the discouerers obiected forcible deposition of elected Princes : Protestants haue depriued more in this short being of their Gospel , by their popular mutenies and priuate authoritie , than all Popes in all ages of christian religion , with publike consent of Princes and people , haue condiscended vnto . Protestants haue taken Armes and raised generall rebellions , more often against Princes , not to be condemned , than all Popes haue imposed censures , by publike complaint , against those which are noted in histories , for extraordinary impious . If any hath otherwise proceeded , no Catholike may defend it : wee doe not , nor may not by our religion , intend , designe , or practise , iustifie , or defend the murther of Princes , or professe rebellions : the discipline of the holy Church and generall Councells , ( rules in our religion ) denie it for lawfull : what priuileges protestancy claimeth , what it hath taught and practised in that point , Hungary , Transiluania , Germanie , Bohemia , Denmarke , Heluetia , Flanders , Sweueland , France , Em●en , your Maiesties kingdomes , and your selfe haue beene witnesses , for many yeares . We doe not allow in opinion , or may practise in act , aequiuocation , concealed , double or secret sence , in affaires of Common-weale , and iuridicall interrogatories , and profession of religion . They be Protestants which defend and practise it in such causes , not iustifiable in true diuinitie . Our Priests , neither vnder that reduplicatiue formalitie ( as Priests ) nor otherwise maintaine by our religion , any position or pactise seditions , or not obedient : if any particular men for want of learning , haue seemed to speake or thinke , or for want of grace , dealt or practised in other sence , ( no religion made all men Saints ) religion did not teach it , and Catholikes generally condemne it .

Therefore our confidence cannot but continue , that the Royall promises of your highest Authority , of Lenitie , of no bloud for Religion , shall not be recalled . The demerritt of a fewe , is no generall impediment . The Scriptures instruct vs , anima quae peccauerit ipsa moriatur ; one man must not be are the burthen of others sinnes . All Schooles agree , that no man can condignelie meritte first grace , to any other , though but one ; then the transgression of one , or fewe , cannot be demeritte , for innocents to be afflicted ; great is the difference of the members in a naturall , and ciuill body , in this cause , though the first doe suffer in some sence together , by connexion in nature , yet in the second , the case and reason is different .

Remember most worthy Prince , not only how grieuous , but how generall the penalties against your Catholiques be enacted : And yet new threatnings be made , that new and more straunge ( as nec inter gentes ) shall be ordained : The bodies , honours , reputations , and riches of husbands , to be punished for their wiues religion , and soules ; to which they are neither husbands , nor superiors . Children to be taken from Parents , Parents to be depriued of thei● education ; which Catholike Princes doe not , and in conscience , cannot offer to the Iewes themselues , though ( in some opinion ) the slaues of Christians . Children , seruants , kinsmen , and neighbors are to be made hired Espialls , to betray their parents , masters , kinred , friends , in things , as vnlawfull , which the whole Catholique world honoureth for holy , and they venture their soules and fempitermtie that they be such , commendable Artes , Functions of phisicke &c. which haue not connexion with Religion , are to be put to silence in Catholikes . The seuere penaltie for not monethlie professing the Protestant faith in Churches , ( when in all diuinitie the precept of Profession of true and vndoubted faith , in se , and ex se bindeth but seldome ) is to be increased : And others of such condition , too many here to be mentioned , and too grieuou● and vnnaturall ( we hope ) in your Princelie opinion , to be concluded by a Kings consent . Therefore , vnder sauour for all , I instance in one most heauie and generall in those of our deceased Queene .

All Priests though neuer so dutifull or obedient be censured for Traitors , equally with the greatest offendor in sinne of Treason , when many guiltlesse soules of that sacred order , would not for thousands of worlds once consent to any such , or a farre inferior offence . A thing most straunge and beyond all example , that men in respect only of their calling , and function , and that function so reuerenced by all our forefathers , should without further cause be condemned as guilty of so a detested crime . We defend holy priesthood to be a sacrament , which being ordained by God , cannot be changed by man , Pope , Prelate , or humane power but remaineth in al things , substance , and doctrine , the same which in those dayes when it was so honorably esteemed of all your christian progenitors , & when our mother Church kept her first integrity by your Highnesse iudgement as we are ready to make defence . And if your Maiesty should decree the like law against any degree , or profes●ion of your other subiects ; or the king of France , ( or other Prince in other estate of men ) should enact by Parliament , that all Ministers in his Dominions made contrarie to the Romane vse , approued in his Territories ) should be Traitors ; the pulpits of England would not be silent , to reproue it of great absurdity . We ●ope therefore ; that the rare example of one Queene , wil not ouer ballance so many your holy and wise Progenitors , and all Princes of the world in this point . And if one against so many hundreds , coulde carrie ( against so manie reasons ) equiuolent motiue of imitation : yet wee trust , as you doe not inheritte by Queene Elizabeth , ( or King Edward the sixt , or King Henrie the eight ) whose next line and life , rather suspended your Title , then gaue you the Diademe of these vnited dominions ; but by Queene Margaret , and Queene Marie of Scotland , Catholike p●inces , and King Henrie the seauenth , of England , of the same Religion , with all their , and your common Auncestors ; so you rather will inheri●te the steppes of them , so many , and holy , in this path , which left you so great a Title , both to heauen and earth , then followe the lone example , of one woman , or the father , and son , a child , from whom no such preeminens is , or can be deriued .

It is the honor of our King in Heauen , ( most mightie Soueraigne ) for which we continew in combatte : that Religion which the whole Catholique world in all generall Councelles , Popes , Doctors , and learned men , hath euer professed , wherein this Nation ( as our Protestants acknowledge ) one thousand yeares since , Ioh. Bal. l. de Script . Angl. in August . monach. Will . Tetrastyl . was conuerted , all our Christian auncestry embraced , and which all Princes ( in the schoole of Christ ) of whome your Maiestie is descended , maintained in themselues , and subiects . That which is so generall , cannot be surrendred by a small number , of one kingdome : It is not in the power of Man to resigne the honor of God . Protestants and Puritans , which haue turnes , and changes , for all occasions , which communicate in spirituall things , with so many different in profession , which can subscribe , and sweare to Parliament articles , and yet renownce them , take oth of Princes supreamacy , yet speake , preach , and print against it , communicate in Churches , seruice and sacraments with them , which they say , be infidells , and that none going to their Churches , can be saued , submit their faith and religion to stand , or be changed , as pleaseth Princes , which had not any Church , Chappell , Prince , or subiect , of their religion , vntill the daies of Luther ; and now is the same no further , then in one time or Country , may without great losse to themselues , damage to others , or new dishonour to God , change as the winde serueth , their spirit suggesteth , or appetite desireth . Such men may easily and onely condiscend , to change their right , and relinquish their interest : being such as the Apostle thus describeth : Alwaies learning , and neuer attaining to the knowledge 2. Timoth. 3 ▪ v. 7 of truth .

Yet neuerthelesse ( dread Liege ) if it will please your Maiesty to vouchsafe vs licence to request , and grace to obtaine , that your owne princely sentence and censure may stand : that we ought not to depart further from the Roman Church , ( our mother Church by your iudgement ) than she hath departed from her selfe , when shee was in her best , and flourishing state . And that the time of Constantine was incorrupted in religion , we humbly againe offer triall before your Highnesse , with equall c●nditions of Schooles , agenst the most selected & chosen Protestant Bishops & doctors of your dominions , to proue , or defend any , or euery substantiall article , which we now professe , to be agreeable vnto ( and not discenting ) the knowne , publike , Catholike doctrine of that mother Church , in those your mentioned incorrup●ed daies of Christianity .

And seeing the disfauour and penalties against lay Catholikes , are grounded vpon their Recusancy , to be present at your protestant Seruice ; wee humbly beseech , it may be called to memory , how they haue protested in seuerall supplications , one to your Maiesty , before the end of the last Parliament ; and the other to Queene Elizabeth , in the seuen and twenty yeare of her raigne , to be builded onely vpon feare of offending God . To which , their so long and manilold disgraces , losses , imprisonments , and sufferings , are sufficient witnesse ; and for further triall thereof , haue offered to repaire to your Protestant Churches and Seruice , without further exception , if the learned of your religion can , and doe proue to the learned of their profession , that it may be performed without offence to God : which is so much in the opinion of all diuines , as any christian subiects can offer in this cause . In which minde , as I doubt not but they still continue , so I am assured , that the Priests of England will giue like consent . This if your Protestant Cleargy doe refuse , or doe not satisfie so Christian a request , we hope your Maiesty , being wise , learned , iudicious , and gratious , will perceiue , that the seuerity of the lawes against them , for that cause , is not to be put in practise . These things in most humble manner , we commend to your highest and mercifull consideration : And so , desiring of the Almighty , to grant all happinesse and prosperity to your Maiesty , and posterity , we conclude in all dutifull subiection , with that antient Father : We will faithfully serue you in your Pallace , we will accompanie other your subiects in the market , wee will ioyne with them in the field against your enemies ; onely to you we leaue the Churches .

FINIS .
Fauls escaped .

In the Ep●ste , or , are . tam , cum .

Chap. 1. Rogesr , Rogers .

Chap. 2. Haereticus , Haereticis . manimenta , munimenta . not aboue foure or fine , not many . the Prophets and Priests of Iuda deposed : vnder the Prophets and Priests of Iuda were deposed . not now , and are not now .

Chap. 4. Philopatre , Philopater . which , which is .

Chap. 5. and it was , and that it was . if , it .

Chap. 6. natum , nutum . violatore , violatorem . approue , reproue .

Chap. 9. vermia , Austrae . vienna , Austriae . Canickname , a nickname . 100000 , 1000000. Inns , Irons .

Chap. 10. vindice , iuridieé . mentire , mentiri . naturall consciences , internall consciences . a semiplea , a semiplene . statish Protestants , Scottish Protestants . Caluinianum , caluinianam .

Chap. 11. punished , promised .