9. Out of which I must here againe repeat one thing briefly , which there I haue more at large declared , and more earnestly vrged , to wit the obligation you haue both in honour and conscience , according to the rules of all true Christian diuinitie , to enforme rightlie his Maiesty in certayne pointes , wherin your self being at that time deceaued , misinformed also his highnes , at the first presentation of your Booke vnto him , if my information thereof be true . And for that the point it self is of very great consequence , M. Attorney bound in conscience and honour to enforme a new his Maiesty . and that the misconceat or wrong impression of his Maiesty , ma●e be to the great preiudice of manie of his dutifull subiectes , I am the more earnest to vrge this obligation vpon you , especiallie for that I vnderstand , that since the edition of your booke , you haue in a certayne publicke Act , solemne assemblie , and most honorable auditorie , repeated againe , and auouched the said iniurious assertion , concerning Catholickes , that their Recusancy began vpon disloyaltie , by occasion of the excommunication of Q. Elizabeth by Pope Pius Quintus vpon the eleuenth yeare of her raigne , and for that cause , and not before , nor vpon anie other motiue .

10. Which iniurious charge , though it were sufficientlie refuted there in presence , by the * * M. Garnet . prisoner at the barre , to the satisfaction of al indifferent people , that might easilie descrie your passion ●●erin ; yet haue I shewed the same more at length ●● my said last Chapter of this booke , which I ●ould wish you had read , before so confidentlie ●ou had repeated the same charge againe in the ●●id assemblie , auouching vpon your fidelitie , and ●●ervpon challenging anie Recusant whatsoeuer , ●●at noe Catholicke , or other refused to repaire to our seruice , vntill the said eleuenth yeare of the Queenes raigne : but I haue shewed out of pu●licke testimonies that you ar deceaued therin , & ●●at both manie Catholickes , & Puritanes were ●pen Recusants before that yeare , and neither of ●●em vpon that cause which you suggest : & so you ●●e how farre your fidelitie , which you pawne ●or the matter maie hereby come in question .

●● . I could further put you in mind , of manie ●ther ouerlashing speaches , tending to the hurte ●nd dammage , yea bloud and death also , of diuers ●sed by you in that great assemblie , M. Attorneyes ouerlashing in speech . if I thought ●ou would take it frendlie , and helpe your self ●●ereby to the right examen of your conscience ●etwene God and you , when you are alone , as ●atholicke doctrine teacheth men to doe , espe●●ally of iniurious wordes against their brethren , ●herof our Sauiour Christ in S. Mathewes ghospel ●ronoūceth so seuere a sentence , as he appointeth ●oth iudgment , counsaile , Math. 5. & hel fyre for punishment of the same ; and addeth further , Math. 12 that no idle word shall passe from vs , whereof we shall not giue accompt in the day of iudgement : and if not idle wordes , how much lesse slaunderous , calumnious , and infamatory ? whereof you vsed store against manie innocent men that day , especially against Fa: Garnet , and his owne Order of Iesuites , wherof some I may not pretermit in this place .

12. You said at the very first entrance vnto your speach in that place , that you would speake of nothing but of the late most horrible treason , which for distinctions sake you would call the Iesuits treason . For if it be iust ( saie you ) that euery thing be called by the name of the Author , then seing the Iesuits haue byn the Authors of this treason , you would not doe them the iniurie , to take from them anie thing which is theirs , or to miscall anie thing which appertayneth properlie to them , especiallie seing in euery crime : plus peccat auctor quàm actor ; the author is more culpable and blame-worthie then the actor , as is apparent by the example ( saie you ) of Adam , Eue , and the Serpent , where the Serpent for that it was the first author of that attempt , The Diuel●s sinnes in ●●pting Adam . committed three sinns , Eua that was tempted , two sinns , and Adam that was the chiefest actor , but one sinne . This was your eloquence at that time , & I doubt not but that the learned prisoner standing at the barre , whome you otherwise so highlie commended for this talents , if other cir●umstances had giuen him leaue , could haue smi●ed at your exact enumeration of the diuells sinnes , who yet , for that it is not read , that he did eate ●nie of the apple with Adam and Eue , it is like you would be much troubled to finde out his three ●eueral sinnes in that matter , if you were put vnto ●he proofe , and you know what our common ●aying is : That it is a shame to bely the Diuell .

13. But to leaue this point to be discussed betweene you , I must needes saie , that you offer the Iesuites an apparent iniurie , in making this last ●reason so proper and peculiar to them , as that you will needes haue it called the Iesuites treason , M. Garnetts case . ●nd they to be the principall Authors ; whereas notwithstanding , when all came to all , no other ●hing ( I weene ) was proued against them , but ●hat the prisoner there present , had receaued only a simple notice of that treason , by such a meanes as he could not vtter , and reueale againe by the lawes of Catholicke doctrine , that is to saie , in Confession , and this but a very few daies before the discouerie , but yet neuer gaue anie consent , helpe , hearkening , approbation , or cooperation to the same ; but contrari-wise sought to dissuade , dehorte , and hinder the designment by all the meanes he could .

14. And is this sufficient M. Attorney , to laie the denomination of this foule fact , vpon the whole order of Iesuites ? that one of them , or two at the most knew thereof by such a waie , as probablie they could not auoid , How things heard in confession may not be vttered by Catholick doctrine . or preuent the knowledge , not fore-seeing what he penitent would confesse , and once hauing heard it in that manner , remained bound by the inuiolable seale of that Sacrament not to vtter the same , but in such manner as the confitent should allow of , though neuer so great temporall dammage were imminent for the concealement . And this is the sacred band of a Catholicke priestly conscience , much like to that of Angells , who though they know manie great hurtes or dangers to hang ouer kingdomes , States , Common wealthes , or particuler men , & be desirous out of their loue to mankinde to preuent the same ; yet are they not free to reueale what they know thereof in regarde of anie future good or hurt whatsoeuer , but onlie where they are permitted , and licenced in particular : & yet ar they not iustlie to be accompted accessarie to the euills that fal out , & much lesse authors of the same for their silence , or not reuealing , as in this case of the Iesuits you labour to inferre .

15. But in truth Sir it seemeth that you attended more to the art of Oratory , then to the coherence of Truth in that your speach , for that presentlie after your former wordes you added these for the beginning of your declamation . In this discourse I will speake ( saie you ) of no other circumstances but of treason , A partition not afterward performed . and of no other treasons , but the Iesuits trea●ons , & of no other Iesuits treasons , but such as shal par●iculerly concerne this prisoner . Wherin notwith●tāding verie soone after contradicting your self , you brought in a long discourse of the antiquity , ●nd inuisibilitie of your Church ; as also of Equi●ocation , and manie other things , which are no ●ircumstances of treason . You handled also of ●he Northerne Earles , Excommunication of the Queeene , and diuers other such things as hap●ened before the Iesuits came into England , and ●onsequentlie could be no Iesuits treasons . And when you come to treat of the prisoner him●elf , and to proue him a traitor , you begin with ● Statute set forth in the 23. yeare of the late Queenes raigne , which made all Iesuits , and other Pristes traitors , that came into England , or remained in the same , and consequentlie concerned not the prisoner in such speciall manner , as you would seeme to promise : or if it did , yet manie other things you bring in and handle , as that of Lopus the Iew , Williams , York , Squier , Colen , partlie Protestants , and partli● Catholickes , who whatsoeuer their causes were ( wherof somwhat shal be spoken after ) yet touched they nothing at all that prisoner , who yet neuer dealt with them , nor euer was accused concerning them . Wherevpon is inferred , that no one of your three-fold members before mentioned was performed by you : to wit , that you would speake of no other circumstances , but of treason , and of no other treasons , but of Iesuits treasons , & of no other Iesuits treasons , but such as should particulerly concerne the prisoner at the barre .

16. But this defect I suppose that all your auditorie did not obserue , by reason of the multitude of other tumultuary matters , drawne in by you against the said prisoner , but yet your Rhetoricke in amplifying one point , about the first law alleadged against the comming in of Priests and Iesuitts , was so markeable , as no man I thinke , was so dull , as did not obserue it , and beare it away . To wit , that whereas the said law did forbid all Priests , vnder paine of death and treason , not to come into England , or execute anie parte of their priestlie function within the Realme , as to preach , teach , offer sacrifice , heare Confessions , absolue from sinnes , reconcile to God , and to the vnion of his Catholicke Church , dissuade from sects and heresies , and other like offices ; you in commendation of that law , protested to proue it , to be the most myldest law , the sweetest law , the law most full of mercy and pitty , that euer was enacted by any Prince so iniuriously prouoked . And you added in the heat of your eloquence , that if you proued ●ot this , then let the world saie : M. Garnet an honest man by M. Attorneyes warrant . That Garnet is an honest man . Which was a warrant to al the hearers , up hold him for such ; for so much as no man was there so simple , but saw it impossible for you to ●roue that assertion , and consequentlie that in all their hearings you canonized his honesty .

●● . For how did you go about to proue ( M. Attor●●y ) that this law was so myld , so ful of pitty , & lenity ? ●or sooth , for that you saie , the meaning was by kee●ing Priests of , and expelling those that were within , M. Attorneyes wit in making a bloudy law to be a sweet law . to ●●are their bloud , though if they retyred not to spill it . ●magine that then if in Queene Maryes dayes ( for ●xample ) such a law had byn made against Prote●tant-Ministers that came from Geneua and other ●laces of Germany , would you ( M. Attorney ) haue ●eemed that law a gentle law , a sweet & myld law , a ●aw ful of mercy , pitty & clemency ? I presume you dare ●ot saie it . But let vs vse an other example of much ●ore moment . If in the Apostles time , such a law ●ad byn made by anie King or Emperour of con●rarie religion to them , that if anie of the said Apostles or Priests ( for so they were ) should enter ●nto their dominions to preach a contrarie do●trine to the religion there receaued and establis●ed , and to exercise anie of their Apostolicall or Priestlie functions , it should be treason and paine of death : could this be called a myld law ? a sweet law ? a law ful of pitty & compassion ? a law made for not spilling their bloud ? or would , or could the Apostles , or their followers haue obeyed this law ? or did they obey the Gouernours of the Iewes ( otherwise their lawfull Superiours , when they commanded them to preach no more in the name of Christ , or to disperse Christian doctrine , which they called seditious , or to reconcile anie to Christian religion , which they held for treason ? or did they flie , though Princes & Emperours afterwardes by publicke Edicts did commaund them out of their dominions ? or is there not another bloud to be respected , called by the Prophet , the bloud of the soule , whereof the Pastor shall be guiltie if he flie for feare , or forsake his flocke in time of daunger and persecution ? is not all this so ? or can it be denyed ? or haue not English Priests the same obligation of conscience to help their Countrey , and countrymen in spirituall necessities , as had the Apostles and Apostolicke men to strangers , for whose helpe yet they were content to offer their liues and incurre anie daunger whatsoeuer ? Wherefore M. Attorney to speake a truth , if you deale with men of vnderstanding , it is but fond ; and if of Christian courage , it is but trifling eloquence , all that in this point you haue vsed about the myldnes , sweetnes , mercy , and compassion of this cruell , and bloudy law of Queene Elizabeth . Children maie be delighted , and de●uded with such bables , but wise-men doe laugh at them .

18. Concerning the other heads of doctrine , which pleased you to handle in this arraignement ●t the barre , with no small ostentation of wor●es , as being in your owne Center , namelie : Of the Antiquity of your Church , Equiuocation , and some ●ther such points , as they were not much ad rem , in that assemblie & busines , so could your friends ●aue wished , that either you had omitted them al●ogeather , or handled them more substantiallie : or as for Equiuocation , About Equiuocation . or mentall reseruation of a ●●ne sense in a doubtful speach , it seemeth plainlie ●●at you vnderstand not the Question , nor the mea●ing , which both ancient and moderne learned ●en haue , in holding that true , and necessarie ●octrine ; & no marueile , for t●at it hath not byn ( I ●●inke ) your education to be troubled much with scrupulositie of wordes , to wit , what sense maie ●e held therin without sinne , & what not , the ●●amen of which matters belong to more tender ● timerous consciences then Kings Attorneyes cō●onlie are presumed to haue , who must speake ●o the purpose , howsoeuer it be to the truth . And ●● it well appeared in that arraignment , wherof ●e now treat , but intend to proceed no further ●●erein , for that the prisoner himself answered this point sufficientlie at the barre , as also to the Lordes before in the tower , and a more large discourse maie be made therof hereafter , if neede shall require .

19. As for your other article , about the Antiquity and continuance of your Church , a man maie easily see , that you sought an occasion to bring it in , by making an obiection on the behalfe of Iesuitts against the same , About the antiquity & vniuersality of the Protestant Church . and thereby to shew your skill in answering . They hold their religion ( saie you ) to be the old Religion , where ours is the new , confyned to England ; where on the contrary side their Religion is vniuersall , and embraced in the greatest part of this Christian worlde . And thus for the maintenance of their rotten Religion , doe they seeke to disgrace and blemish our Ghospell . But ( good syr ) if your ghospell be that of the foure Euangelistes now receaued , we pretend that it is as much our ghospell as yours , and more also , for that you receaued it from vs , and vpon our Churches credit , and for that you call rotten Religion , if euer it were Religion , then neuer can it rott , except you put no difference betwene apples and religion . But let vs heare how you will answere this obiection in your owne wordes , as they came set downe vnto me from your owne mouth .

20. But to this ( saie you ) I will answere , that if our Ghospell be as ancient as Luther , it is more ancient then the Iesuitts are ( though not I trow then Iesuitts religion ) albeit it be not conteyned in these narrow limitts of place , A strange discourse of M Attorney about his Church . nor bands of time , which they feignedly imagine , hauing byn euer since the time of Christ , and his Apostles . For we doe not deny but that Rome was the mother-Church , and had thirty two virginall martyrs of her Popes a-row , & so continued til in succeeding ages it brought in a masse of errors , and idle ceremonyes . But you will aske perhaps , where our Church lurked before Luthers coming , for some hundreds of yeares ? But I say it makes no great matter where it was , so that I ●m certaine it was , for as a wedge of gold , if it be dissol●ed , and mixed with a masse of brasse , tinne , and other metalls doth not loose his nature , but remaineth gold still although we cannot determine in what part of the masse it is conteined , but the touch-stone will fynde it out : so though our Church hath euer byn since Christes time in the world , yet being mixed , and couered with innoua●ons , and errours , we cannot tell in what part it was . And I dare say , that it is now more extended then theirs ● : for we haue * * Many all s . all England , all Scotland , all Germany , al Denmarke , a great part of France , al Poland , & some part of Italie . These are your wordes , if the Relators haue byn exact in setting them downe , as they saie they haue byn . And then is there ●o maruaile , though you impugne so much the doctrine of scrupulous reseruation of true sense in ambiguous speeches , whereas so manifestlie you ouer-lash in all those periods , which heere you haue layed before vs .

21. But to the matter it self , about the Antiquity Continuance , Succession , Visibility , and Assurance of the Church , whereas you graunt , that the Roman Church , was the true mother-Church from the beginning , and had two and thirty virginall martyrs ( for so you call them ) for her Popes one after the other , without interposition of anie one Bishop , that was not martyr , for more then the space of three hundred yeares ; you graunt vs so much in this assertion , if it be wel considered , as it will be hard for you to take it from vs againe afterward in your sequent negation , which I shal shew you brieflie by two conuincing Arguments , the one Theologicall , the other Morall .

A theologicall argumet for the Roman Church . 22. The first is , that if the Church of Rome was the true mother-Church of Christ , and Christian religion for so great a space as you assigne ; then no doubt were all the predictions , and promises of Prophets for the greatnes , eminency , honour , certeyntie , & florishing perpetuitie of the said Christian Church fulfilled in her : Christes peculier promises in like manner , Mar. vltimo I●an . 14. & 10. Mat. 10. that he would be with her to the end of the world , that the holy ghost should lead her into all truth , that hell-gates ( which properlie signify errours and heresies ) should neuer preuaile against her , that she should be the piller , and foundation of truth , & all men bound to obey and beleeue her , 1 Timo. 3. Mat. 18. was ●eant also & performed in this Roman-Church for three hundred yeares and more , and promised ●● be performed to the end of the world : wherof ●●sueth , that either God is not able to performe what he promiseth ( for of his will there can be no doubt , seing he hath promised ) or else it cannot without impiety be conceaued , and much ●●se beleeued , that this Roman-mother-Church , so ●●anted in the beginning by Christ , and his Apo●●es bloud , and so watered for three hundred yeares togeather by the bloud of all her Bishops , ●● spread ouer the world , Rom. 1. as S. Paul of his owne time testifyeth that her faith & religion was , and afterward all Ecclesiasticall histories within the time prescribed & after , doe declare , that all other Churches commonly , at least-wise of the west-world , were her daughters by foundation , & our ●reat-Britany among the rest ; it is impossible ( I say ) to imagine with piety , how this Queene of the world , how this florishing Church , how this golden wedge ( to vse your owne similitude ) should so be dissolued & mingled with brasse , tinne , copper , & other such contemptible mettalls , which you cal Errours , & innouations , as that her Religion should become rotten , according to your phrase , & her self in steed of being the true kingdome , inheritance & spouse of Christ , become his enemy his aduersary , an aduowtresse , and the verie power of Sathan himself against him , as you M. Attorney doe make her .

23 How , I praie you can this be thought ? by what reason or probability maie it be imagined when ? how ? by what meanes might this metamorphosis be made ? The very next age after the forsaid Martyr-Popesliued S. Augustine , Epist. 105 contra lit . Petiliani . who reciting the said Popes , and their Successors vnto his daie● called them all holy without distinction , and by their lineal succession in the said Church of Rome did persuade himself to haue demonstrated the truth of all Catholicke Religion , as well in Africa where he was , as throughout the whole world , against all heretickes .

24. And after him againe liued in the same Sea , as Bishops thereof S. Leo , and S. Gregory , both of them surnamed Great , in respect of their great sanctitie , great learning , and famous acts : and with them , and after them concurred and suceeeded in other Christian Churches of the world , as Fathers and Doctors S. Maximus , S. Prosper , Vincentius Lyrinensis , S. Gregory of Towers , S. Fulgentius , S. Benedict , and others , all making the same accompt of the Roman Church , doctrine , sanctity , and authority thereof , as the former Fathers did . And how then could come in this transfusion , and transmutation of gold into lead , which you dreame of M. Attorney , and are content to deceaue your ●●f and others , to your eternall perill of perdition 〈◊〉 this new inuention of a golden wedge , whereof ●●n saie that you are a fast friend : but this apper●●yneth rather to my second argument , to shew the morall impossibilitie also of this seelie fiction .

For let vs suppose that there were a wedge ●● gold so dearelie bought and purchased , The morall argument of impossibility for the vniuersall Church to fall , or vanish away . so care●●●lie deliuered , and ●o earnestlie recommended to the possessors as the Church of Christ was vnto his disciples and followers , and that there were so ●any watch-men appointed to looke continu●●lie vpon this golden wedge , and so sure a guard allowed them for defence of the same , as Christ appointed Pastors ouer his Church , offering them for guard his whole power and omnipotencie ●o defend it ; and if this were so , how could this ●●edge , that from the beginning was pure golde , ●●e imagined to loose her nature , and passe into other baser mettalls , or be melted , mingled , dissolued , or changed into the same , without that any ●ne of the foresaid watch-men should open his ●outh , resist , or testify this chaunge ? Are not ●hese morall impossibilities , and metaphysicall imaginations onlie , to delude your selues and others ?

●6 . Let vs compare then brieflie these matters togeather . We read in all Authors , and see by experience , that in sixteene hundred yeares sin● Christ his Church was founded , and set on foot that in euerie age the Doctors , Prelates , and Pastors , Application of this morall argument . that were watch-men of the Church for that time , were so diligent in their watch , as 〈◊〉 least errour or heresie appeared in their daies bu●● presentlie they cryed out , made warre against i● and finallie by help and assistance of their guard and Captaine , in the end ouercame , and vanguished the same . Let the examples of Simon Magus● Philetus , Hymenaeus , Cerinthus , Ebion , Menander , and other heretickes rising vp amongst the Apostle be examples for the first age : Saturninus , Basilide Carpocrates , Cerdon , Valentinus , Marcion , Apelle●● and others for the second : Nouatus , Sabellius , Manes , Noetus and their followers for the third : Arrius , Aerius , Photinus , Iouinian , Donatus , Apollinaris & their adherents for the fourth : & so in euerie age vnto our dayes , wherein no man was spared though he were neuer so great , no former meritts respected though neuer so many , if he vttered any thing against the common receaued vniuersall Catholicke faith . And so we see that both Origen and Tertullian most rare learned men were condemned ; Osius and Lucifer Calaritanus two famous Bishops noted ; S. Cyprian also one of the oracles of the Christian world called in question for points of doctrine different from the vniuersall Church Whereof we doe inferre most euidentlie and ●●ainlie , that if any Fathers in the eusuing ages ●● vttered anie thing in their speaches , sermons , writings , that in any least point had byn different from the said vniuersall Catholicke doctrine , it would haue byn resisted in like man●●● and noted in one Countrey or other , and ●●er would haue passed for Catholicke do●●●ne to their posteritie , without note or repre●●sion at all .

As for example , to take one for all , for that ●●one all maie be iudged of . A most euident demonstration . If S. Augustine that 〈◊〉 more then a hundred yeares after those mar●●● Popes of Rome , which you mention , did ●●th preach and write in so manie places of his ●orkes , of Purgatory , of the Sacrifice of the Masse , ● Iustification by good workes , of Praier for the ●●●d , of the single life of Clergy-men , of the Perfection ●●religious life , of the Preheminencie of the Sea of ●●me , and manie other such articles expreslie ●●posite to that you hold commonlie in England , ●hich he handleth so plainlie as anie of vs can ●●e in these our dayes ; if anie of these pointes ●●d byn strange or new doctrine at that time , 〈◊〉 so much as suspected of error , heresie , or fal●●●ood , no man of common sense can imagine , ●ut that they would haue byn contradicted , or ●oted by some man or other , so manie learned godly men liuing with him , and after him : b● this will neuer be proued to be so , or that the points , or the like wherein we differ from 〈◊〉 Protestans were either in him , or other , noted ●● condemned for heresies , and consequentlie b●● this argument of morall euidence it is conuince● that they were neuer accompted either errors , 〈◊〉 heresies , before the hereticall contradictions 〈◊〉 these later ages sprang vp , & that by such as we●● accompted and condemned by the vniuersal Church of Christ for hereticks themselues .

28. And as for the comparison of the true Catholicke Church of Christ vnto a wedge of gold so mingled with lead copper & baser mettalls , as it cannot be knowne where it is , is a verie base and leadden comparison by M. Attorneyes leaue . For if the Church must baptize , the Church must instruct vs , the Church must gouerne vs , and minister vs Sacraments , resolue our doubts , and giue vs directions to life euerlasting , how can men repaire vnto her that is so hidden & couered as she can neither be seene , nor found ? Nay you saie , it makes no great matter where she is , so you be certaine that she be . By which doctrine a man in England may be as well saued by a Church in Constantinople or in the Indyes , as in England it self , seing there is no conuersation necessarie with it , no conference , to treaty , no recourse , no dependence of it , no obedience vnto it , nor importeth it where ●t be , so I be sure it be in some place , though I know not where , or in whome . Stange and Chimericall imaginations . And what doth ●his certaintie auaile me M. Attorney , if I haue no ●enefit from her ? These be those monstrous and strange Chimeraes in deed , floating in vncertaintyes , which you mention in your Preface to the Rea●er , for that these are euacuations , and exinanitiōs ●f all fruite of Christian doctrine , drawing all to ●eere fancyes of idle conceites , without effectes ●f anie substantiall fruite , or spiritual helpe what●oeuer . For whereas all the ancient Fathers in all ●●eir workes doe labour to set forth vnto vs the ●●finite real benefits , which we receaue by being in the true Catholicke Church , as all those before mentioned , of instruction , gouerment , grace ●y Sacraments , remission of sinnes , and the like , and that it is impossible to be saued vnles a man ●●e in her , reuerence her , heare and obey her , feare ●● go out of her , and consequentlie haue daily and ●ourlie treating with her , and dependance of ●●er , wvhich cannot be without certaine know●●dge where she is , or euident signes how to know and discerne her from all others ; you by a contrarie new deuise , neuer heard of I thinke be●●re , doe affirme , that it importeth not where your church was for many ages , and hundreds of yeares , so ●●at she were at all .