Ane answer made the fourth day of Septembre a thousand fyue hundreth syxtie [and] one, by maister Theodore de Besza minister of the holie Euangile, in the presence of the quene mother, the king and quene of Nauarre, the princes of the blood royall, and of the priuie counseil, vnto that whiche the cardinall of Lorraine had replied against that whiche was propounded in the first iourney of their talking together, by the said de Besza in the name of the reformed churches. Together with an other short answer made by the said de Besza the 26 day of the said moneth vnto certein articles of replie set forth by the said cardinall

An answer made the twentie four day of Septembre a thousand fyue hundreth sixtie and one

Being arriued at Poissy twelue ministers of the worde of God in an hall , where were present , the Quene mother , the King and Quene of Nauarre , the princes of the blood royall and all the Lordes of Counsell , and other Lordes , of the one parte : and on the other parte , fyue Cardinalles with many busshops and Theologues of all sortes .

The Lorde Cardinall of Lorrane declared in few wordes , that this assemblie was made , to heare , what that we had to say vnto that , which he had propounded , eight dayes before , whervnto Theodore de Besza rising vp , in the name of the said 12 ministers , for all the frenche Churches reformed , answered as followeth , hauing an verie good audience and attention of all the assemblie .

Madame , first calling vpon the name of oure Lorde God , that it may please him to assist vs with his especiall grace in an mater of so great consequence , that we may be vtterly voyde of all particuler opinions and passions , and that their might be planted in to oure heartes in stede thereof a right knowledge of his veritie with an earnest desire to set it forth to the honnor of his holie name , and to the auancement of youre maiestie and to the quietnes of all Christendome , and namelie of this realme , we shall brieflie answer vnto that , whiche it haeth plesed the Lorde Cardinall to declare vnto vs , vpon two pointes onelie of our confession , which haeth bene three tymes presented vnto youre maiestie : to wit , vpon that whiche concerneth the Churche , and the aucthoritie thereof , and vpon the holy supper of oure Lorde Iesus Christe .

Trew it is , that if we might haue had the fauore to haue made answer immediatlie when as we had a freshe remembrance of that , that we had heard , or els that we might haue had in oure handes , the said oration to consider it , we might haue answered more destinctly point by point , and perhappes more properly . But how soeuer it be , we shall speak thereof , that which God will giue vnto vs , so that men may vnderstand wherein , we may alredie be accorded , and likwyse the pointes , wherein as yet we vary and be different , whereof we humblie pray oure God , that according to his great mercies , it may please him to aggree vs .

So now as touching the first point of the Churche , we shall treat it in thre partes . The first , what is the Churche . The seconde , what be the markes of it . The third what is the authoritie thereof .

It is moste certen that this name of the Churche is taken and drawen oute of a greke worde , whiche signifieth as muche , as to call frome one place to an other . But we find in the Scripture , that there is two maner of callinges , the one is ●oyned with the efficacie of the holy Spririt , of the whiche is spoken in the right chapitre of the Epistle to the Romains , where it is said , Rom ▪ 30 that God ●ustifieth them , that he calleth : the other , althogh it be the self same outwardlie , as the first is , yet is it of no value vnto saluation , not that the faute thereof commeth of God , but of the men that wil be deaf , following that whiche is commonlie said , that there is none deafer , Mat● 20. ●● 22. then he that will not vnderstand .

And of this calling haeth the Lord spoken , when he said , there be many called and few chosen .

Beholde therefore consequently it behoueth that this name of the Churche signifieng the company of them that are gathered together , by the voyce of God , whiche haeth called them , is taken two wayes .

For being taken generally for al● them whiche make outwarde profession to answer vnto God , whiche calleth them , there is no dout bu● there be many hypocrites and reprobat comprehended therein .

And for oure part my Lorde Cardinall , neuer ( God be praysed ) haue we spoken nor written otherwayes , seing it is a thing whereof we neuer had debate , because it is moste clerelie expressed in the Scriptures and confirmed by a continuall experience .

But yf nede be to take this name of the Churche more properly , and more streitlie , as often tymes it must nedes be taken , then say we , that it doth not comprehend any , but the assemblie of the elect and predestinate of God .

And to the intent that ye may vnderstand , that we haue not forged this maner of speaking , and yet les this ●inde of doctrine , seing it is said that ●he Churche is the body of the Lord ●one of his bones & flesh of his flesh ●ea specially to attribute vnto it the proper name of Christe , 1. Co●● 12.27 Ehes. ●● . in ioyning ●ogether the head and the membres ●s doeth the Apostle writing vnto the Corinthians : Cor. 12. how then be the repro●ate comprehended in this nom●re , seing they be the membres of the Deuill ? For it is a thing vnpossible ●o be of the membres of Christe & of ●he Deuill at ones . This is it whiche S. Augustine wonderfully well haeth noted in his seconde booke ●he 12 chaptre against Cresconius . The same distinction of the name of ● Churche the self same authour vsed writing vpon 64 Psalme , where ●e sayeth that the Churche , whiche 〈◊〉 signified by Ierusalem begonne at Abell , and Babilon by Cain . And yet this notwithstanding in h●● first booke of Baptisme against th● Donatistes , the 16 chaptre taking th● Churche in a more generall significa●tion , he sayeth that the same , which did engendre Abell , Enoch . Noe Ab●raham & the Prophetes , haeth als● engendred Cain , Ismaell and other● lyke . For conclusion therefor w● will take that whiche the same S● Agustine haeth written thereof in ● same treatise in the 17 booke 57 cha●ptre : the whiche is also rehearsed in the 24 question the first chaptre omnibus considerates . &c.

where is said that there be two ma●ner of men touching the Churche .

For he saieth the one be membres of Christ , and the right Churche , ● so of the house of God , that they be the self same house .

The other are truely in the house of God , and yet be they none of the same : The r●●●proba●●●● be ofte● in the house 〈◊〉 God yet be they none o● the ho●●se . for they be as the chaffe with the wheat , vntill that they go oute .

Now by this meanes groweth there a question , to wit whether the Churche be inuisible , the which semeth that so it must be concluded , seing that God onelie may know his elect and predestinate : & also that we say , that we beleue the holie Churche , and that whiche is beleued , is not sene . That whiche is beleued is not sen

But hereof there followeth a greate inconuinient , if simply and barely we speak so of it . For if it be so , vnto what company may a man ioyn him self , & what meanes shall we vse to haue saluation if we knowe not the Churche whereunto we may ioyn oure selfes considering that vpon the Churche onely , Iesus Christe powreth oute his vertue and force , to saue mankinde ?

Trew it is ( my Lorde Cardinall ) if I remembre well , that ye alledged yet an other inconuenient , whereof we be not satisfied to wit , that if the Churche were inuisible , that then we should not somuche as knowe oure King : that whiche thing we could not , vnderstand .

For the Scripture teacheth vs to know oure superiours , and to obey them in all thinges ( sauing the honnor that we owe vnto God onely ) yea althogh they be infideles in dede . ●om. 13 5 ▪ 6. But let this be spoken as by the way . I returne to my purpose . We say therefore that althogh the true Churche be inuisible in respect of that , that we haue said : neuertheles when there is question vnto what company we oght to associat , & ioyn oure selues , we haue certen markes , The certen marcke of the true Church to wit , the pure word of God , and the sincere administration of his Sacramentes , the whiche markes be euident and perceiuable in suche sorte , that where they be we oght not to doubt , that there is the true Churche of God .

And we must according to the ruell of charitie , holde all for faithfull , that make profession of the pure religion , except that God discouer theire dissimulation & feynednes . And of this saint Paule giueth vs a good example , where he calleth the Corinthiens & Galathiens , saintes , and faithfull , and doeth attribute vnto them the name of the Churche , althogh there was amongest them greate fautes aswell in the ignorance of doctrine , as in theire liuing .

This is it whiche also he haeth declared , in an other place , that all they which kepe the foundation buyld not alwayes thereon gold , siluer , or precious stones , but also hay & chaffe .

Se now how we speake of the Churche , without making thereof an imagined & a fantasticall thing , and without giuing occasion as I suppose , to compt vs among the nombre of suche frensi●k persons as heretofore were the Cathariēs & Donatistes , and as again now in oure tyme be these furious Anabaptistes against whom this mater haeth so often bene debated , by them that are of oure part .

I come nowe vnto the marckes & witnessinges of the Churche , the whiche is very nedefull to be marcked and marcked again , seing that withoute the same , there is no saluation , Ther● is no 〈◊〉 witho●● the Churc● and that there is no thing that Satan oure ancient enemye , more enforceth him self to dissaguyse .

I haue said that it haeth two certen infallible marckes that is to say the preaching of the worde of God and the sincere administration of the Sacramentes . Some ioyne thereunto the discipline of the Churche and the frutes of the preaching of the Euangile , as of a trueth it behoueth that euery assemblie , Oure sinnes be the cause that d●●●cipline 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 the 〈…〉 . 8. for to maintene them selues , haue a policie vnder some superiour , whom they must obey .

But forsomuche as our sinnes be often tymes the cause that thies two pointes in no wyse appere vnto men : therefore we will content oure selues with the two first .

As touching the worde that it is a sure marcke of the Churche it appereth by this that the same worde is compared vnto a sede bothe by Iesus Christ & by saint Peter .

●etr . ● 25. By reason whereof also saint Paule haeth said , that he haeth begotten the Corinthiens in the Lorde to wit by the preaching of the worde . 〈◊〉 . 4.15 .

And for this cause in so many places is it named food & nooriture according to that whiche the Lorde haeth said , that his shepe will heare his voyce & not the voyce of a stranger . 〈◊〉 . 10. I adde the Sacramentes , for asmuche as the Lorde haeth not willed vs , not onely to be taught by oure eares , but also by oure eyes and other senses of oure bodyes & therefore haeth he willed that the Sacramentes shoulde be sure & visible witnesses and sealles of the vnion or knitting together of his children , first with him self , and then after amongest them selues . Ye may see now why it was said in the olde lawe , Why c●●●cumcisi●on is c●●mande● so strai●●lie . Genes ▪ 17.14 that the vncyrcumcised shoulde be destroyed from among the people of God . And for this cause also it behoued that all the heades of euery familly shoulde compere thre tymes a yere at least in Ierusalem , Deut. 16. for to witnesse by the same sacrifices their vnitie of faith and religion .

And afterwardes when the wall betwene the two was broken , the Gentiles and the Israelites were broght into one bodye , not onely by the preaching , but also by Baptisme , and by the holy Sacrament of the body & blood of oure Lorde according to that whiche Iesus Christe said , ●ath . ● . 19 . vnto his Apostles . Go and teache all nations , baptising them in the Name of the Father , the Sonne and of the holy Spirit : whereunto we must ioyn that whiche Saint Paule sayeth , Cor. 23. that he hath giuen touching the Supper , that whiche he had receyued of the Lorde .

This is also that whiche in an other place he sayeth that the Churche is founded vpon the foundation of the Prophetes & Apostles that is to say vpon Iesus Christe whiche is the substance of the doctrine of the Prophetes & Apostles . ●phes. 2 ● .

Lykewyse must we vnderstand an other place of the same Apostle wherein he sayeth that the Churche is the prop & piller of the veritie , ●imo●e . 3.15 that is to say , that the worde of God , whiche is the veritie , as it is written in S. Iohn , Ioh 17. susteyneth & vpholdeth the Churche , or els is placed in the Churche as in a sure hie place , forasmuche as in it , God sheweth his puissance vnto saluation to all beleuers , as S. Paule declareth vnto the Romains in the first chaptre . Rom 16. Beholde therefore the right and visible marckes of the Churche whiche is called for this cause , the mother of the faithfull , Gala● 4 . 2● begotten & noorished in the same with the true and incorruptible foode .

Now if there be preaching of the worde and administration of the Sacramentes , Ther● must 〈◊〉 docto●● and p●●●acher● in the Chur●● it must of force be concluded that there be pastors and doctors , vnto whome this charge must be committed , according to that whiche the Scripture thereof witnesseth euery where , & namelie in that which is written vnto the Corinthiens & to the Ephesiens . 〈◊〉 . 12 Therefore may ye se why the some putt to the thirde marcke that is to say the ordinarie succession from the tyme of the Apostles : 〈◊〉 . 4. wherevnto we answer that suche a succession is greatly to be praised , prouided alwayes that it be well considered & applied as some haue often tymes therewith strengthened them selues against the newnes of heretikes , as appereth in Tertullian , Irenee , & S. Augustine against the Manicheens and Donatistes .

But forasmuche as there is a buckler hereof made against vs , as if we were inuenters of new thinges , or that we pretended thereby to haue help , it is more then nedefull , that it should be knowen , what estimation we haue of this succession we say that there is a succession of doctrine , and a succession of persons .

As touching the succession of doctrin we auowe it , as an infallible marcke of the true Churche , according to the whiche we haue already spoken . For notwithstanding that the doctrine af the Euangile is more then credible , without hauing authoritie of ancientie , & that it commeth often to passe through oure iniquities , and by the iust vengeance of God , that it is as new vnto men , as that it oght to be vnto them familiare and accustumed : yet this notwithstanding the witnes of an ancient and continuall succession serueth much vnto men , to make them the more inexcusable .

And as touching the succession of persones we auowe it also , but vnder condition and prouided that it be conioyned with the succession of the doctrine of the Prophetes and Apostles , at the least in the pointes of the substance and grounde thereof , and none otherwyse .

And marck if it please you my Lordes , that I speake notablie of the doctrine and not of maners , for althogh it be requesit for a good and true pastor to be perfyte in doctrine and in lyuing : yet because of ignorance or for some diuersitie of opinions of the doctrine , whiche be not of the substance & ground thereof , & also for his manners , we will not stik to suffer him being a pastor to be still a pastor prouided alwayes that he kepe the foundation of the doctrine , we be taught thus to speake by the wordes of oure Lord Iesus Christe , 〈◊〉 . ●3 . ● . 3 . that whiche saied : forasmuche as the Scribes and Pharisies were set in Moisis chair , that it behoued to doo as they taught , and not that whiche they did . Of 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 chair who● oght 〈◊〉 be vn●●●●stand

The whiche place S. Augustine writing on S. Iohn in his 46 treatise declareth that it oght to be vnderstand of hyrelingis whiche faill not to haue this doctrine , & not of fals Prophetes , of whom Christe haeth contrarywyse spoken .

Be ye ware of the leuain of the Pharisies . Mat● 6 ▪ 11· Being saith S. Augustine set in the Chair of Moises they teache the law of God , and therefore God teacheth by them .

But if they wil teache their owne doctrines , nether heare ye them nor do ye those thinges that they speake . The whiche thing the same authoure expoundeth yet more at large in his 49 Sermon . De verbis domini . So therefore my Lordes to retourne again to the point , because tha● the fals Prophetes may succede vnto the trow , and w●●es vnto the ryght shepherdes , behold a 〈◊〉 peremptorie for the which we esteme a personall succession nor onely to be receiued , but altogether to be condemned as giuing occassion ●nto falset , except that the succession of the doctrine be ioyned thereunto for the foundation .

Furthermore if this personall succession were simply holden for an infallible marcke of the Churche , it behoued then to shew vs some promise of God by which he haeth 〈◊〉 and bound his grace vnto certen seates or regions , that whiche thing we suppose can not be found in the new Testament .

But ryght well know we that there is alwayes a Catholicke Churche , that is an vniuersall Churche , ●orasmuche as the particuler membres thereof be scattered here & there , Of 〈◊〉 Catho●●●que Churc● and of their d●●●persio● in diue●● partes throughout the hole worlde , according , as it pleaseth God to exercise his iudgementes vpon some of them that he haeth ether altogether cut of , or els that he haeth chastened for a tyme , and his mercies vpon other some of them that he interteyneth from good to better , or that he calleth of new vnto his knowledge . For in some pointes the Lorde vsing his iust vengeance , he semeth altogether to root vp till that he leaue not one trase of the Churche , as it is come to pas in the contrie of the Barbariens & in the orient . And in other cuntries he haeth left as yet some trace of the Churche as we see in the Churches of Grecia , and yet more nerer vnto vs . On the other part the Lorde betwene handes some tyme● out of this personall succession of pa●●tours , as it chanced in Antioche , i● the tyme of Samosatenus , and in Alexandrie the tyme of the banishe●ment of Athanasius , & in many othe● Churches in the tyme that heresyes had there furious rage , & specially without seking thinges any furde● at this tyme there haeth bene interruption in the personalle succession of the Romishe seat at least in the tyme that Honorius the first held the seat aboute the yere syx hundreth thre & twentie , was condemned for the execrable heresie of Eut●ches aboute the yere syx hundreth & foure score . And in the tyme of Pope Iohn the twentie and two was condemned for an heretike aboute the yere a thousand thre hundreth thirtie & two .

Except they wold say , that notable heretiques were the heades of the Churche , besides this which happened in the tyme of the she pope Iohan aboute the yere eight hundreth fiftie and foure , and during so many schismes of contrary popes as be redde in histories .

By these reasons I conclude , that with out stayeng at any personall succession , for to know the Churche well , we must alweyes come to the purite of the doctrine , No 〈◊〉 with the 〈◊〉 preac● of Go●● word● the 〈◊〉 ad●●●nister● of 〈…〉 and to the sincere administration of the Sacramentes . In suche sort that they whiche oght to be compted the ryght successors of the Apostles , the whiche being lawfully called , build vpon their foundation , whether there be a ●ontinuall succession of persons , or that , that succession some tymes be interrupted , yea euen of them the first preached the Euangile in any place ..

Lyke as contrarywyse , they that preache not at all : or that in stead of the doctrine of the Apostles preache their owne doctrine althogh they alledge a thousand predecessors following one an other , they oght not to be hearde as pastors , but to be fled from , as wolues , by the expres commandement of Iesus Christe , 〈◊〉 . 7. and of his Apostles .

But some may say , is this said because that it is lefull , to euery body to preache the Euangile , and to minister the Sacramentes ?

No surely for it behoueth that euery thing be done by good ordre in the house of God , as the Apostle sayeth , Who be then the right pastors ? ●or. 14 ● . They whiche be lawfully called . There resteth then to knowe what is lawfull vocation and to vnderstand this point we say , that there is a maner of ordinarie vocation & an other extraordinarie . That is the ordinarie vocation in the whiche the ordre is kept that God haeth established in the Churche . And in this ordre first of all there is examination of the doctrine & of the lyfe , then after there is lawfull election & finaly there is imposition of handes .

These may ye see in many places of the Scripture to be put and conioyned together , as in the election of Saint Matthias and of the vij deacons in the Actes of the Apostles and also in that whiche is written in S. Paules Epistles vnto Timothee and to Tite . Act. 5.6 .

This now is the ordanarie vocation , whereby it may be easely considered what is the extraordinarie vocation : in the whiche notwithstanding that one of these two thinges or two of them , yea or all the three be wanting , yet is it laufull by the authoritie of God . That oure Lorde haeth often tymes vsed suche extraordinarie vocations , it appereth through out the Scriptures . For who laied handes vpon Moses that he might consecrate Aaron ? And who anointed in the degre of a Prophete Isaie , Daniel , Amos , and many others ? And when came that to passe ? Then as they that had the ordre in their handes abused the same , then say I , it behoued that God should extraordinarely put hand to his work , not for to bring confusion into his house but to correct them whiche vnder the shaddowe of ordinarie succession had had ouerturned and peruerted all .

And that it is so , I referre me to the writinges of the Prophetes which specially speake against the priestes .

But if herein it be replied that suche persons neuertheles haue had miraculously & frome heauen an outward witnessing of their calling : Answe● to a lye I answer that this is very trew in some , but not in all : except that ye will deuine that to be whiche in no wyse is euident by any witnes , yea I can not well tell if there be many of the trew Prophetes of the rase of Aaron who haue hadde the imposition or laying on of handes after the ordinarie maner . But if they will alledge that the fore said Prophetes were content to rebuke and to reproue without hauing any thing to do with the sacrifices . First of all I answer that , that is not true euery where : for Samuell which was not of the rase of Aaron , but onely of Chore , did sacrifice in Mispa as it is written in the first booke of Samuell in the vij chaptre . 〈◊〉 . 1 And Elie the Galaadite did sacrifice in Carmell as it is written in the first booke of kinges the eightene chaptre .

Secondly it is no meruell if the Prophetes in that tyme stretched not oute their comission extraordinarie so farre as to circumcise & sacrifice , seing that this charge was appointed heretably vnto the rase of Leuy , the whiche thing at this day haeth no place .

Consider now my Lordes , what we call the Churche and what we esteme of the marckes of it , & of the vocation of pastors , of whiche things if ye will make application vnto oure Churches or vnto oure selues , we hope with the help of God to shew so good tokens , that none shall haue iust occasion to doubte thereof following the worde of God , and that whiche thereof is truely written , as we think in a treatise that is found amongest the workes of S. Augustine intituled , a dialogue of 66 questions in the last question .

Now let vs come to speake of the authoritie of the Churche . The 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 It appereth by these thinges that we haue afore spoken , that we do not derogate in any point the preciouse and hye titles the whiche the holy Goste attributeth vnto it .

But we say that it is so the body of oure Lorde that in a part it is in their pilgrimage , Wha● 〈◊〉 faith giue the 〈◊〉 awaiting for the full enioyeng of their head : it is the house of God , but that whiche is yet a buylding and groweth day by day , and that it is gouerned by the Spirit of God , 〈◊〉 . 5. but as yet fighting against the fleshe : it is purified , but in suche sorte as to be broght by litle and litle vnto this perfection of beawtie , 〈◊〉 . 13 where there shall be neyther spot nor wrinckle : it knoweth God , but it is in a parte . When I speake thus , I beleue that ye know the Apostles owne wordes . For to be brief I confesse that without the Churche there is no saluation : because there is no lyfe but in Iesus Christe , & Iesus Christe imployeth not his liuelie vertue no where els , but amongest his membres , the vnion and assemblie whereof , is called the Churche .

But the question is to know whether that in this world the Churche may erre , and whether it be aboue the Scripture or els altogether subiect vnto the same ?

Hereunto , do I answer that it is a thing without all doubte that the particuler membres of the Churche may erre , and do erre daylie bothe in doctrine and maners , according vnto that , whiche S. Paule sayeth that we knowe in a parte , 1. Co●● 9. 1. Io●● 18. and S. Iohn that if we say that we haue no sinne we deceiue oure selues . But if any body will except out of this nombre the ancient doctors , he shall perdonne vs if we beleue him not . 〈…〉 of the ancie●● docto●● be 〈◊〉 witho●● faute●

For it were easie for vs to gather many witnesses of fautes , that be found in the greatest and moste ancient of them : let this be spoken , sauing the reuerence due vnto their godlines and learning .

But we will not stay oure selues so muche here , for the honnor that we heare vnto them ( and that not without good cause ) as also because if I haue well vnderstand the sayeng of my Lorde Cardinall that he is no more of that mynde then we to deceiue them without exception .

This is it , that we vnderstand of the membres of the Churche , in particularitie , the imperfection whereof doeth not stoppe but that the Churche is formed and made thereof .

For by litle and litle do they go forwarde aswell in the knowledge of God , as in the amendment of life . But if the membres of the Churche be generally considered , as it is destributed in diuers diocess and prouinces shall we say that it may ●rre ? Again if I remembre well my Lorde Cardinall was lately of that 〈…〉 specially the particuler It is 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 ha●● often erred . Churches & prouinciall Councelles may erre : and haue often erred , and surely that is ratified by so long an experience that no man of iudgement as I suppose can doubte thereof .

There resteth therefore to consider the hole Churche in an vniuersalitie but in what sorte ? For considering it in the estimation of an vniuersall Councell , first of all there is no greate apperance to iudge that all the vertue that the holy Goste , employeth vpon the Churche is restreyned to an certen nombre of Prelats the whiche be not alweys the most learned nor the best , yea althogh they represent the hole multitude that sendeth them . For how often tymes will it come to passe that a simple man , shall haue more vnderstanding at an instant then the moste wyse of an hole company ? And therefore was it said by Gerson that more credit oght to be giuen to one priuate , faithfull man , then to an hole Councell and to the Pope , if he haue better authoritie or reason . And namely in the great Councell of Nece by whome was it stopped that the law of single lyfe , whiche afterwarde , haeth broght so great filthynes into the Churche , was not then established ? By one Paphnutius onely , as sayeth the historie . And moreouer , when was there euer assembled a Councell so generall but that a greate parte , not onely of the moste wyse and moste holie men , but also of the Prelates haue remayned be hinde . And who may than assure , but that they that were absent some tymes , had greater reuelation then they that were present .

And besydes all this my Lordes , how long is it a go , that there reigned so horrible a confusion in the Churche and principally in the great estates & dignities of Prelates , in such sorte that the greatest desolation of the house of God is in that parte where it oght to be moste entier and best decked . At the least it is a long tyme past that the exemples hereof haue appered & that the good Busshops haue sobbed & sighed so grieuously therefore , Go●● Bussh●●pes 〈◊〉 sobbed 〈◊〉 sighed see th●● wick●● 〈◊〉 be in the prela●●● of the Chur●● & so euidently that we heare them at this day .

And that whiche S. Barnard wryteth of this mater in his book of consideration , and in the 33 sermon on the Canticles , and also in the sermon of the conuersion of S. Paule , is noles notoriouse them true : Allas Lorde sayeth he , they whche be sene to loue the first and chief places in thy Churche and their to haue the superioritie be first in a redynes to persecute thee . They haue take● the Ark of Sion , they haue vio●lently possessed the Castell , and by power , haue set fyre on th● hole Citie . Let this be spoken m● Lordes , not to iniurie any body bi● to shew that the chief vocations i● the Churche being of so long a tyme so confused and misreuled , that it i● impossible to conclude in any wys● that the vniuersall Councelles tha● haue bene now of a long tyme ga●thered together of a multitude so e●● qualified , haue bene so guyded by 〈◊〉 holy Spirit that they coulde no● erre .

An ancient Priest of whome I wolde make no mention in this company , if it were not , that they alledg● his example in this mater , 〈◊〉 . 11. did prophesie well althogh he was no thing worth . But we reade none otherwyse but he erred yea both that he & his company in condemning Iesus Christ , for it was the holy Goste that propheseid in this behalf , and not he whiche knew not what he said nor what he spoke , being moued with a Spirit very contrarious , that is to say a deuilish Spirit because of malice he concluded , to sic a Iesus Christe the Sonne of God . And further if a generall Councell haeth receiued this priuiledge that they can not erre in the rewle of their doctrine nor in the forme of their maners : we demand what tyme was this priuiledge dated . For there was neuer but one God , one Faith , and one Churche . Now that there was error in the Churche in the tyme of the olde Testament the Prophetes openlye beare witnes , and the histories shew good proof thereof .

●●ai . 56. All the wache men sayeth Esay 56 ▪ chaptre , be blind , they know no thing they are all domme dogges ▪ And Ierem 6 chaptre . ●●rem . ● Frome the Prophet to the priest they work all vntrueth .

And to the intent that this might not be restreyned vnto the life of particuler persons , it is said in the 14 chaptre of the same Prophet : ●●rem . ● . 14 . they prophesie fals thinges , and a lieng vision . And in Isay the 29 chaptre . The wisdome of the wyse shall perishe & the understanding of the prudent shall vanishe away . ●●ai . 29. God shall shut vp the eyes of the Prophetes and of the principalles . And in Ezechiell the 7 chaptre . ●●ech . 7 The law shall perishe frome the Priest . And to say the trueth , who condemned the Prophetes , as Ieremias , Micheas , yea & the Sonne of God him self , and after him the Apostles , but the assemblies of the Prelates of Israell ? If hereunto it be answered , that these thinges happened in the tyme of the olde Testament . I answer that it is not ynough spoken nor derectly answered . For the conclusion will alweys be ferme and sure that the assemblie of Prelats of the Churche how generall soeuer that it was , haue often tymes bene gouerned by the Spirit of error rather then by the holy Goste .

Secondly if we come to the new Testament , S. Paule haeth not he expresly warned the Ephesiens in the name of all the Churche , Act. 29. that there shoulde wolues come oute frome amongest the mids of the Pastors & that the sonne of perdition shoulde sit in the temple of God ? 2. 〈◊〉 2.4 . And in very dede in conferring the Councelles one with an other , there will appere so many contrarieties amongest them selues , that of very force ye must confesse that the holy Goste haeth not alweys there had audience , but that Satan for a long tyme past haeth transfigured him self into the lyght of generall Councelles for to disguise and hyde his falshode .

There is a place in S. Augustine that expresseth this in his second booke of Baptisme , against the Donatistes 3 chaptre the whiche I haue alledged in the first oration and now for a cause will alledge it again , there it is expresly said , that the Epistles of the particuler Busshops be corrected by the prouinciall Councelles , and the prouinciall Councelles , by the generall Councelles , & the first generall Councelles adnulled by the last , when as by experience of things that whiche was close is opened & that whiche was hidde is made euident .

Unto this my Lorde Cardinall answered in his oration that this was to be vnderstand of exterior or outward things whiche might & oght to vary according as nede requireth . But considering the hole mater nerer it is found that this worde Emendari presupposeth that there was a faute committed and after corrected , also if this answer shoulde be receiued , ye must say lykewyse of the particuler Epistles of the busshops and prouinciall Councelles the whiche is directly against the intention of Saint Augustine , whiche reasoneth there of this point and not of any exterior policie , but of one point of doctrine , to wit of the opinion of Saint Cyprian , and of the Councell of Affricke touching rebaptisation . If there be also alledged an other argument whiche they vse , to wit , if oure Lorde haeth promised to be in the myddes of two or three gathered to gether in his name , now by greater reason wil he be in an assemblie vniuersall : we grant that so it may be presumed , but there is a difference betuene a presumption and a necessarie conclusion . For the malice of man commeth often tymes vnto this point to abuse the name of God , to establishe their lesings that suche may haue God in theire mouth whiche haue his enemy in their hart . The weaknes of man is so great that there is comonlie in him an infinite nombre of dissordinate affections whiche blind oure eyes , so that we say that he whiche haeth none other foundation then the aduyse of men and the outward apperance of a Councell , is rather in danger to be deceiued than otherwys . What then ? Wold we that the doctrine of the Churche should be vncertain seing it may erre ? No thing les . For we confesse that as yet , we know in a parte , 1. 〈◊〉 9. as Saint Paule saieth , & in this respect there is alweys error mingled with the veritie , & yet neuertheles God suffereth not that the veritie in the substanciall pointes of oure saluation be euer so buried in all his Churche , that there is not alweys some nombre now more now lesse that vnderstandeth that whiche they oght to vnderstand , & do follow that whiche they oght to follow . Thus we see that it came passe in Israell in the tyme of Elias and in the tyme of the captiuitie of Babilon & in the tyme of the cumming of Iesus Christe , when as scarsely was there found a Zacharie an Elizabeth , a Ioseph , a Uirgin Marie , a Simeon , and an Anna the Prophetesse , whiche had a vnderstanding of the fulfilling of the Prophetes , amongest so great corruptions of Scrybes , Pharises and Sadduces . Suche interruptions therefore in the Churche of God proceding and comming of the iniquitie of men , be as a storme or cloudy wether , whiche afterwardes he causeth to vanishe away with the brightnes of his worde as it pleaseth him , and according as he distributeth the secretes of his iudgementes and of mercies . Are we willing lykewyse thus to condemne the ancient Councelles ? God forbid . For as ye your selues know ryght well that if it were in question to be reuled by them ye should change mo thinges then we : ye haue trauelled therein these dayes past , but we require that the Scripture be the touche stone for to examyn all that is done and said in the Churche . If this seme strange I pray you my Lordes to consider this moste renouned place of Saint Augustine writing vnto Maximin Arian in the seconde booke . chaptre 14 Is there any generall Councell more authorised then the first , called the Councell of Nece ? And what is the Councell of Arimin ? A Councell reiected and condemned & that worthely . And whereof disputeth S. Augustine ? Euen of a principall article of the beleif , that which had bene before that often tymes fully resolued , to wit of the Consubstancialitie of the Sonne of God . in this mean season ye may see that S. Augustine witnesseth that for his part he is not astricted nether to the Councell of Nece nor yet to the Councell of Arimin : but that he will fight with the Scriptures , whiche be , saieth he , common witnesses vnto bothe parties . If any body will against this alledge the obscuritie of the Scriptures , we must nedes confesse that whiche S. Paule saieth : that the naturall man knoweth not those thinges that be of God , ●or . 2 and that whiche Saint Peter sayeth : that the Scriptures be not of any priuate interpretation . ●et . 1 Well then , if this obscuritie be so great , that the Scriptures can not be exponded by them selues whence cometh this that Christe sendeth vs no where els , when he sayeth searche the Scriptures ? 〈◊〉 . 5. 〈◊〉 . 16 ●1. And how commeth it to pas that Abraham being required by the vnhappy riche man to send some of the other world to admonishe them of this worlde , they haue sayeth he , Moses and the Prophetes , if they beleue not them no more will they beleue when any shall ryse again from the dead . And moreouer in what case had they bene in then that had no thing but the scriptures of the Apostles , before that euer there was any commentaries written by the Ancients ? And yet further I remembre my Lorde Cardinall that in youre oration , youre aduyse was to receiue for sure interpretation and Apostolycall tradition , that whiche haeth bene alweys receiued in the Churche euerywhere , & of all men . But who may assure vs of these thre pointes ? Certenly no man as I suppose . For the diuersitie is infinite that is founde in the bookes of the Ancients , yea and that in the articles of the faith .

Furthermore if we must come vnto these wordes , alwayes and of all , at what tyme shall we begin except at the Apostolicall Churche ? And who shal be the first in the counte but the Apostles of whom the historie was faythfully written by Saint Luke & that whiche may be knowen by theire owne writinges . So therefore my Lordes to conclude , forasmuche as all trueth commeth of God , who haeth taken for his trushmen in that , that concerneth oure saluation , the Prophetes and Apostles , we returne alwayes vnto this foundation of the Scriptures , and yet will we receiue the aduise of councelles and of fathers , but that shall be so farre as they confirme their sayinges by the euident witnessinges of the Scriptures , the whiche as treulie sayeth Saint Augustine in his bookes of Christian doctrine , be so tempered with the holy Spirit , that that whiche is darkly spoken in one place is moste clearelie spoken in an other place , with diuers other meanes to vnderstand well the Scripture , whiche be conteined in the said bookes of Saint Augustine and of otheres whiche haue entreated of this mater .

And there remayneth as yet one difficultie to be resolued , whiche lyeth in this that many haue thoght that the will of God touching all that is requisit vnto oure saluation was not fully written by the Euangelistes & Apostles . But if this might take place , I pray you my Lordes , what a doore should there be opened to set forth all maner of dreames and rauinges , that men list ? And in very dede we see that this haeth bene the passage by whiche Satan haeth entered in , to waste the vine yarde of the Lorde , and yet denye we not , but that before Moses tyme , God gouerned his Churche , by visions and reuelations , and that the Apostles first planted the Churches with a liuelie voice before that their doctrine was written . But where fore is it that whiles , men grew greater in malice and mo in nombre , & contrarie wyse their lyues growing shorter , that the Lorde haeth willed that this doctrine should be enregistred in a common language to be vnderstand of all ? Haeth this bene to encountre them that decore and deck their rauinges and dreames with the tytle of traditions , reuelations or of custome ? Now if this doctrine be not written but in part , wherefore should this remedie serue then ? Iohn 31. Surely Saint Iohn speaketh not so of the Scriptures , where he sayeth that the thinges that he haeth written be written to the end , that in beleuing that Iesus is the Christe , the Sonne of God , ye might haue lyfe , the whiche thing should be fals , if there should be left out any doctrine necessarie vnto saluation . Saint Paule also declaring the vse of the Scripture , where he wold teache all the ministers of the Churche of God , in the personne of his faithfull disciple Timothee , 2. 〈◊〉 3 . 1● had not said that it maketh the man of God , that is to say the ministers of the worde of God , or in especiall if ye list , euery faithfull man to be in all pointes perfyte , if it had bene , nedefull to haue added any thing that as yet was not written . And yet we doubt not but alweys there might haue bene of the Apostles traditions vnwritten . But what were they ? Perteining vnto ordre and to policie . But because this name haeth bene abused a long tyme , it behoueth to shew whiche be the Apostolicall traditions , the which will not be hard to be done , if two pointes be propounded whereby they may be iudged , that is to say if they be conformable to the doctrine , and mete to edification , for it is a thing moste assured that the Apostles neuer appointed any maner of doing , that might be directly or vndirectly contrarie to the doctrine , whiche they taught , nor also that myght turne away men how litle soeuer it be , frome the spirituall seruice , seing all their writinges beare witnes thereof . When therefore , this ruell shal be kept , then shall it be easie to discerne the doctrine frome the tradicions , and the fals tradicions from the right traditions . And to this may be added that , that whiche the Apostles them selues haue done , in this behalf , is not alweys perpetuall . Not but that they are witnes without reproche , but for this cause , that according to the reule of charitie did they beare some thing with the infirmitie of the Iewes , Act. 29. and so muste be iudged of that whiche they ordeyned of thinges strangled & to eat no blood . And of that whiche S. Paule haeth taught and practised in Timothee and on his personne , the which thinges now might haue no place , except in following the generall reule to commodate oure selues to oure neighboures in thinges indifferent , & suche thinges may also be gathered of other maner of doinges whiche they haue appropried vnto their tymes , as where it is spoken of kissing & to haue their head vncouered or bare in signe of authoritie , ● Cor. 11 the whiche at this day be contrarie maner of doinges or fashions amongest many nations , amongest whome it should be founde very strange that men should kisse one an other or that one man should kysse an other mans wyfe , as also at this tyme , to speake beare headed , is a signe of inferrior or low condition .

All these thinges therefore oght to be considered before that we should grounde a doctrine as Apostolicall for to abuse the authoritie or custom of the Apostles , to trooble the Churches with , lyke as we see that it haeth come to passe shortly after the tyme of the Apostles : for the feast of Easter , & specially in their tyme touching them whiche abused the authoritie of the Churche of Ierusalem , for to mingle the Iudaisme with the Christianisme according as it is written in the historie of the Actes of the Apostles . 〈…〉 29. There was it ordeyned that no mans conscience should he charged with any yoke . How then may we esteme that the Apostles haue inuented so many and so many ceremōes ( vnto whiche afterwardes haeth bene attributed bothe remission of sinnes and merites ) seing that they haue made suche an expresse protestation to the contrarie , yea & wolde not giue place vnto the Mosaicall ceremonies , of whiche God him self was author ? It is a long tyme since that Saint Augustine complayned hereof , when he wrote to Ianuarius , but there is no doubte if he had bene in the lyke tyme as ours is , he wold haue bene more astonied at them . In a somme therefor , we do require that the Scripture , whiche is cleare in this behalf , may discerne betuixt the traditions that be good & them that be euill , betuixt them that be holie and them that be profaine , betuixt them that be profitable and them that be noysome , and betuixt them that be nedefull & them that are superfluouse .

These pointes being resolued , it is easie to decyde this question , if the Churche be aboue the Scripture , the whiche semeth to me to be so foolish a question as if one asked whether the infant or childe were aboue his father , the woman , aboue her husband , yea the man aboue God . And in very dede the trew Churche will neuer striue against God in suche a quarrell nor none other , but will escaip condemnation . And it serueth to no purpose to say that the Churche was before the Scripture . For althogh that so it be , yet it is so that this worde that afterwardes haeth bene written is alweys more ancient seinge that by the same the Churche hath bene conceiued , ingendred , and nourished , as it haeth bene said . The saying of S. Augustine is alledged in this behalf , I wold not beleue the Scripture if the authoritie of the Churche moued me not thereunto . But here must ye consider that Saint Augustine speaketh of him self as a Manicheen . When therefore two parties will debate or stryue for the treuth of an instrument , vnto whome shall they haue recourse but vnto nota●ies which kepe the registre thereof ? And yet notwithstanding it can not be said that the register is founded vpone the witnessinges of notaries the whiche should not faill to be trew althogh no man liuing bare witnes thereof . Euen so muche hereof must we answer vnto them that think that the authoritie of the canonicall bookes is not founded vpon that whiche the Churche haeth determined thereof , as if it were so , that there were found determinations of Councelles altogether diuers in this pointe that whiche may be more at large declared in a mutuall conference . It shall suffice me to alledge besides that whiche I haue before spoken , one onely reason accompanyed with the authoritie of some of the ancientes that be well approued .

The reason is this that Iesus Christ him self haeth so muche honored the doctrine of the Prophetes , that he ratified and proued his doctrine by the witnessing of them . S. Paule suffered that they of Tessalonique should do the lyke , as it is written in the 17 chaptre of the Actes . ●wors● 11. ● 2. 〈◊〉 2. Saint Petre haeth expresly allowed this maner of doing . Then must not they , that say that they be the vicares of Iesus Christe and successors of Saint Petre and S. Paule refuse the lyke condition .

And further consider what S. Ierome sayeth in the 9 chaptre of his second booke vpone Ieromie , that men must nether follow the error of their fathers nor of their ancitors but the authoritie of the Scriptures . And Saint Chrisostome vpone the 24 of Saint Mathew in the 49 homelie . The same man , sayeth he , that wold knowe whiche is the trew Churche of Iesus Christe , how shall he know it in so great a confusion of suche semblance or liknes : also why is it that in the tyme then , all the Christians oght to retire and draw them selues to the Scriptures ? Forasmuche as that after that tyme , that heresie had obteined and occupyed the Churches , there might be no certen probation had of the trew Christianitie nor other refuge vnto Christians willing to know the treuth of the faith but the holie Scriptures . Lykewyse oure Lorde knowing so great confusion to come in the latter dayes , commandeth that the Christians whiche be in the Christianitie which wold haue a trew and firme fayth , should haue none other refuge but to the Scriptures : or els if they regarded other thinges they should be offended and perishe , not knowinge what were the trew Churche , and by that meanes they should fall in to the abhomination of desolation that whiche is set in the holy place of the Churche .

Saint Basill also in his moralles the 12 chaptre of the 9 somme , writeth thus , if all thing that is without faith is sinne , as the Apostle saieth and faith is by hearing , Ro● 23. Ro● 17. and hearing is of the worde of God , all that is without the Scripture whiche is inspired of God , is sinne , Lykewyse the same author in his sermon of the confession of the faith . If the Lorde be faythful in all his wordes and all his commandementes be sure for euer , done in veritie and righteousnes : It is manifestly to turne from the faith and a cryme of pride to reiecte any thing of that , that is written , or to introduce any thing more that haeth not bene written , seing that oure Lorde Iesus Christ haeth said , my shepe heare my voice & follow not a stranger but flie from him because they knowe not his word . 〈◊〉 10.

Hitherto Madame I haue answered according to the measure of the knowledge that God haeth geuen vs , vnto the first point of the last oration of my Lordes the Prelates concerning the estate and authoritie of the Churche of oure Lorde . Where of as yet we are redy to vnderstand all that shal be shewed vnto vs , by the pure worde of God . There resteth the article of the Supper the which I will leaf of , if it please youre Maiestie , aswell because ye are to long holden and all the present assistance , as also because of the desire that we haue that this conference should be begonne after a better ordre : because all that in speaking sōmarelie of a mater that hitherto haeth bene wrapped vp in so greate obscuritie , it should be very hard , but that many wordes shoulde escape , how trew soeuer they were that shoulde offend the heartes of them that should heare them . Neuerthelesse if it pleaseth youre Maiestie that we go forwarde , we are redy to speak therof that whiche the Lorde will giue vs to vnderstand . Submitting alweys oure selues vnto that whiche shal be shewed by the holy Scriptures . And make humble supplication vnto youre maiestie to be persuaded that next to the glorie of God , there is no thing that we seke with so greate desyre as the rest and quietnes of youre Maiestie & of all this Realme .

❧ Ane answer the xxvj day of septembre , the yere a thousand fyue hundreth sixtie and one ▪

Being arriued at Poyssy twelue ministers of the worde of God , with twelue deputies of Churches in an hall , where was the Quene mother , the King & Quene of Nauarre , the princes of the blood royall and all the Lordes of Councell and other Lordes of the one syde : & of the other part 5 Cardinalles with many bus●hops and Theologiens of all sortes .

●he lord ●ardin●●● My Lorde Cardinall of Lorrain declared in few wordes that this assemble was made to heare what the said ministers had to say vnto that , whiche he had proponded two dayes befor , whereat Theodore rase vp in the name of the said xij ministers for all the Churches of France that be reformed and answered as followeth .

Madame the last tyme that it pleased you to giue vs audience we made declaration according to the grace , that oure Lord gaue vs , of the article that was propounded touching the Churche , the marckes , and authoritie of the same . Wherein we haue so followed the worde of God that euery one as we iudge had occasion to be contented with oure answer . But in stede to approue that whiche was spoken by vs , we haue bene demanded by what power we minister the word of God and the holie Sacramentes , and besydes all that there was no thing spared that might make oure cause more odiouse . We can not tell for what purpose this was set forward . For first of all we came not hither to minister the worde of God nor the Sacramentes . Wherefore there was no nede to ask vs by what authoritie we wold do it . If it should be said that it is to cause vs rendre a reason of that whiche we haue done heretofore . Ye must consider that oure company is of two maner of people , the one serue for ministers without this realme , in places where their vocation is receiued , of them it may not be demanded why they be ministers . There is others that preache within this realme whome ye haue not called , to cause them giue an accompt of that which is past , as touching their vocation , but onelie to conferre with their doctrine : or els it should be a beginning to make proces against them , the whiche thing Madame we are sure that ye haue not mynded . If it be after a sorte , to conferre vnder correction , there should be therein no great purpose and that could not serue but to cause vs entre into this matter , out of the which we could not depart without offending and angring my Lordes the Prelates . The whiche we haue not mynded , nether will we giue occasion vnto any body to interrupt this holy work that is begonne . And that it may be knowen that we speake not without great cause : A simi●●tude . alweys as two parties mete to entre into conference : if the one aske the other by what vertue do you this ? The other will demande the lyke : and so it wil be very hard but of these reciproque demandes there will arise some dissention . Therefore now leauing a part my Lordes the Prelates of this realme whome we will not offend , let vs imagin vnto vs a busshop that demandeth of vs by what tytle preache ye , and minister ye the Sacramente ? We will demande of him if he him self was chosen by the ancientes or elders of the Churche vnto the whiche he is appointed to be busshop , if he was requyred by the people , if there was information before that , taken of his lyfe and doctrine , he wold say yea . But the contrarie is well knowen , and we remitte oureselues vnto the conscience of them that heare vs , which knowe how this goeth . And if he wold say vnto vs , ye are not ministers because ye haue not the imposition of handes , we might answer him ye are no minister because that in youre institution or ordeining were omitted the substanciall pointes and that commanded by Gods lawe , The P●●pistes want 〈…〉 of th● vocati●● the whiche may not be dispensed with . And if the disputation grew more hote we should go further & may vse such wordes , ye haue but one of the three pointes requisit in the institution or ordeyning whiche is the imposition of handes , if the wanting of that as ye esteme doeth depriue vs that we can not be ministers , for want of the other two muche lesse ye shall be ministers then we . The Councell of Calcidome , The 〈…〉 whiche is one of the 4 generall Councelles ordeyned that that the institution of a priest should be voyde , whiche haeth not bene deputed spicially vnto the seruice of some Churche , irrita sayeth he , in iniuriam ordinantis . With more strong reason may we say the same to the Busshop that should dispute with vs , when he wanteth the two substanciall poī●es contrary to the ordinance of the Apostle . ●ite . 2. Yet se an other point whiche greueth vs greatly to speake , and yet neuertheles be we constreyned thereunto that we may shew to all this company that if this disputation of the vocation were ones opened it should be greatly dangerouse if we should ask him who gaue him this imposition of handes he wold say that it was the Busshops by the authoritie that was giuen vnto them . And if we should ask him , for how muche he boght that authoritie , he will say that he haeth not boght it , but that he haeth giuen so many thousand crounes , that is to say I haue not boght the bread but the corne . So that if ye were willing to decide this question by the Councelles or canons of the Churche , there shoulde an infinite nombre of Busshoppes and curates haue red faces . And therefore Madame we are not willing to entre therein , for feare to offend any body , nor to make any reuenge , but onely to shew you Madame that if we should briefly answer , this is the desire that we haue , not to offend any body . And as touching the article of the holy Supper of oure Lorde , we wold not of late speak any further of it , but hauing a respect to many of this company , whiche haue not bene accustomed , to heare speak thereof any thing so forwardly , but that they wil be easily offended , when they heare any thing that semeth new vnto them . And therefore we had rather that they should heare the sayings of the an●ient doctors of the Churche , th● ours : considering that my Lorde Cardinall of Lorrain haeth bound him self by his promes openly to instruct vs in this article with the wordes of the doctors , that wrote the firste fyve hundreth yeres , so that we were prepared to receiue the light , if it had bene shewed vnto vs that whiche hitherto haeth bene hidde frome vs . Now to saitisfie vs and also a great part of Christendome in that , that we desyred & looked for , there was propounded to vs the article of the holie Sacrament cut of , and mingled , i● the principale and moste necessarie pointes , & therewith it was said vnto vs , signe this , if not , we will go no further . And if we were presented prisoners vnto you to be accused , yet should ye not say , signe this , if not , I condemne you , youre estate bindeth you to speake otherwayes , and commandeth you to shew vs , oure errors , if we had any , and willeth that ye should be sufficient to exhort in holsome doctrine , them that haue nede of doctrine , and that be redy to rendre a reasone of their faith by the Scriptures . And althogh the manner to condemne vs is new , yet the means whiche haue bene therein vsed be more strange as I shall shortly shew .

Madame we are here present for two principale endes , the one is to rendre a reasone to God , and to you , & to all the worlde of oure faith , the other is to do seruice to God and to the King , and to you in all possible meanes to appese and mittigate the troobles that be risen in the cause of religion . If ye send vs away again without giuing vs some , with wh●̄e we might charitably conferre there shal be no thing donne vnto vs , which shall not be published & made knowen throughout all Christendome . This will not be the meanes to appease the troobles whiche they know well ynough , that are the makers thereof . If ye had no more a do , but with vs , that be here present , there should be no great danger as touching the world , to do with vs euen as ye wolde . But if it please you , we be here but a part of a thousand thousandes of persons , whiche be in this realme , Suysse , in Polonia , in Almayne , in England , & Scotland , which altogether looke for some good resolution of this assemblie : and they shall vnderstand that in stede to conferre as it was promised , there was giuen vnto vs the tenth part of an article & there was said vnto vs signe this , or els we will go no further . And if we should haue signed , what shoulde ye gaine or winne thereby ? They that sent vs hither wold haue knowledge , whither we were constreyned therunto by force and violence : or els vainquished by good & certen argumentes . Wherefore we make humble request vnto you Madame that ye wold not interrupt this good worke , but that ye wold giue vs some that wold make no conscience to con conferre with vs . Or els ye may iudge youre self , how muche sclander this kinde of proceding that is now vsed shall bring . And yet neuertheles , because that ye should not remain wihout answer , vnto that whiche was propounded vnto vs , we declare that we approue all that was spoken by Mounsieure Despence in the booke which he gaue vnto vs without any other consideration thereof .

And as touching the article that 〈…〉 Cardinall haeth giuen vs 〈…〉 that it is no thing but an 〈…〉 of the confession of Ausbourgh . 〈…〉 be many thinges to be con●●dered to wit , the hole confession must be communicated vnto vs . For it should be vnreasonable to present vnto vs a line of an article and to leaue out all the rest . Further it must be knowen if my Lorde Cardinall of him self ( the whiche neuertheles we will not presume , but desyre that we may haue witnessing thereof ) or els of the authoritie of my Lordes the Prelates , haeth propounded here the confession of Ausburgh , & to giue vs thereof suche assurance that we may frely conferre together . For thereby at least , we might giue heartie thankes to God for that my Lorde Cardinall and the others , shoulde condemne transsubstantiation the which is reiected , by the commoun accorde of all the reformed Curches aswell in Almaigne as els where . And if they will that we signe any thing it is reason Madame that my Lorde Cardinall signe also that whiche h● in the name of his company presenteth vnto vs , that oure Churches whiche haue sent vs hither may see and knowe , that here we conferre not in the ayer that is in vain . And if my Lorde Cardiāll continue in this minde to approche and come nere vnto the confession of the Almains in all pointes , I hope that God will make vs come nerer & ioyne vs in suche a sorte together , that ye shal be well content therof , and that his name shal be glorified thereby throughoute the hole world .

And in the mean season , Madame , we say vnto you that oure Lorde Iesus Christe is in the vse of the holie Supper in the whiche he presenteth , giueth and exhibiteth verely vnto vs his body and his blood by the operation of his holy Spirit , & that we receiue and eat spiritually , and by faith his owne body which dyed for vs , for to be bones of his bones & fleshe of his fleshe that we may therby be quickened & receiue all that whiche is necessarie for oure saluation . And if this do not content you Madame , and that there be nede of an greater declaration ( as surely it is a dangerous & a hard thing to speake of so great a mysterie in few words ) if it please my Lorde Cardiāll to hold that whiche he haeth promised , whiche is to visit altogither the holie Scripture and the ancient doctors of the Churche so farre as they shal be conformable vnto the same . And if it