IN Primis the sayd Doctour Redman sent for M. Nowel of hys owne minde , & said , he was willing to common with hym of soche matters as he had moued the sayd D. Redman of a daye or two before . And he beyng desyred of the said M. Nowel to declare his mynde concernyng certaine pointes of oure relygyon , fyrste sayde , aske me what ye wyll , and I wyll answere you before god trulye as I thinke without any affection to the world or any worldly person .

I Wyshed him health in soule and bodye , and doubted not but more he did practise the godly counsayl in him self , the whych he was wonte to geue to other , beyng in his case , & thanckes be to god , who had geuen hym stuffe of knowledge to conforte him selfe withal . Sayth he , God of all comfort geue me grace to haue conforte in him , and to haue my mynd wholye fyxed in hym . Mayster yonge and I sayde Amen . Then I communed wyth hym of his sickenesse , and the weakenesse of hys bodye , & though he were brought neuer so low , yet he , yf it were his pleasure that raysed vp Lazarus , coulde restore hym too healthe agayne , No no , sayeth he : that is paste , and I desyre it not , but thee wyll of God be fulfylled . After thys a lyttle other lyke communicatyon , I asked yf I myghte be so bolde not troublynge hym , too knowe hys mynde for my learnynge in some matters and poynctes of Relygyon , he sayde : yea , and that he was as glad to common wyth me in soche matters as wyth anye manne , and then I sayde to hys seruaunces : I truste I shall not trouble him , no sayde Ellys his seruaunte , my Lorde of London M. Nowell , and other haue comuned wyth him , and he was glad of it . Then sayd Master Redman no you shall not trouble me , I pray god euer geue me grace to speake the trueth , & hys trueth , and that which shall redounde to hys glory , and send vs vnitie in hys church , and we sayd . Amen . I said he shuld do moch good in declaringe hys fayth , and I wold be glad to knowe his mynde , as touching thee Sacramente of thee bodye and bloude of Christ , he sayde as man is made of two partes , of the body , and the soule , so christ wold fede thee whole man , but what saith he be the wordes of the text , let vs take the wordes of the scripture , and he rehearsed the text him self thus , Accepit Iesus panem , christe toke breade , wherein hys wyll was to instytute a Sacramente , Accipite commedite , take , eat , here he tolde thee vse of it , what didde he geue them ? Hoc est corpus meum , He calleth it his body . Then I asked him of the presence of Christe , he sayd : Christ was presente wyth his sacrament , and in those that receaued it as they ought . And ther was mira vnitio , a wonderful vnion ( for that word was named ) betwixt Christ & vs , as s . Paule saith Vos estis , os ex ossibus eius , et caro ex carne eius , ye be bone of his bones , & fleshe of hys fleshe , the whyche vnion was ineffable . Then I asked him what he thought of the opinion that Christe was ther corporally , naturally , & really , he aunswered yf you meane by corporally , naturally , & really , that he is ther present , Vere , I graunt . Then I asked him howe he thoughte of that which was wont commenly to be spoken , that christ was ther fleshe bloud , and bone , as I haue heard the stewardes in theyr leetes geue charge , when the sixe Articles stode in effecte , and dyd geue charge too th inquest to enquyre , that yf there were anye that woulde denye that Christ was present in the Sacrament of the aulter , in fleshe , bloud , and bone , they shuld present them . He sayd : that was to to grosse , and could not wel be excused from the opinion of the Caphernites . Then I asked him in asmoch , as christ was there , Vere , howe doo we receaue hym in oure myndes and spirituall partes , or wyth oure mouthes and into our bodies , or bothe ? he said : we receaue him in our mindes and soules by fayth . Then in asmoche as he was moch in this point , that there was Mira vnitio , a merueylous vnion , betwixt vs and Christ , in that we were Caro ex carne eius , et os ex ossibus , bone of his bones and fleshe of hys fleshe , I desyred to knowe his opinion , whether we receaued the very body of Christe wyth our mouthes , & into our bodyes , or no. Here he paused and dyd holde his peace a lytle space , & shortely after he spake , sayinge : I wyl not saye so , I can not tel , it is a harde question , but surely sayth he : we receaue Christ in our soule by fayth , when you speake of it other wayes , it soundeth grossely , & sauoureth of thee Caphernites . Then I asked him what he thought of that whych the Priest was wont to lyft vp and show the people betwixt his handes , he sayd : it is the sacrament , then sayd I they were wont to worshyp that which was lifted vp , yea saith he : but we must worship christ in heuen , Christ is nether lifted vp nor down , I am glad sayde I Master D. to heare you saye so moche , I woulde not speake of the holy sacrament otherwyse then reuerentlye , but I feare lest that sacrament and lytle white pece of breade so lyfted vp , hathe robbed Chryste of a greate parte of his honour . Then sayd he loking vp and prayinge , god graunte vs grace that we maye haue the true vnderstandyng of his word , wherby we may come to the true vse of his Sacramentes , & sayd he wold neuer allowe the carying about of the sacrament & other fond abuses aboute the same . Then after a litle whyle pawsyng sayd I , Mayster Doctoure yf I shulde not trouble you , I wolde praye you to knowe your mynde in transubstantiacion , Iesu Mayster Wilkes sayeth he wyll you aske me that ? Syr sayde I , not yf I shulde trouble you , no no , I wyl tel you sayth he , because I founde th opinion of transubstanciation receiued in the church , when I hard it spoken against , I serched the auncient Doctors diligently , & went about to stablishe it by them , because it was receaued , and when I redde manye of theym , I founde lyttle for it , and could not be satisfyed , then I went to the scole doctours , and namely to Gabriel , and wayed hys reasons , the whyche when I had done , and perceaued they were no pithier , Languescebat opinio mea , de transubstantiatione , my opinion of transubstantiacion waxed feble , and then sayth he : I retourned agayne to Tertullian & Ireneus , and when I hadde obserued theyr sayinges , myne opinion that there shuld be transubstantiacion , Prorsus erat abolita , was quyte dasshed . Then sayde I , you knowe that the scole Doctors dyd holde that Panis non remanebat post consecrationem , that bread remayned not after consecration , as they called it . The scole Doctors sayth he : dyd not know what consecratio doeth meane , and here he paused a whyle , I praye you sayd I , what saye you that consecratio doth meane , sayth he : it is Tota actio in ministering the Sacrament as Christ dyd institute it . All the whole thinge done in the ministerie as Christ ordeyned it , that is consecratio , and what , sayth he : nede we to doubte that bread remayneth . Scripture calleth it bread and certayne good Auctours that be of latter tyme , be of that opinion .

After that I hadde communed with Mayster D. Redman , & taken my leaue of hym , Mayster Yonge came forth into the nexte chambre with me , to whom I sayde : that I was glad to se Master D. Redman so wel mynded , then sayth Master Yonge to me , I am sure he wyll not deny it , I ensure you sayth he : Master D. hath so moued me that wher as I was of that opinion before in certayne thinges , that I woulde haue burned and lost my lyfe for them , now sayth Mayster yonge , I doubt of them , but I see sayth he : a man shall knowe more and more by proces of tyme , and readinge and hearinge of others , and Maister D. Redmans saying shall cause me too loke more dylygently for them .

Item that Ellis Mayster Doctour Redmans seruaunte shewed me , that he dydde knowe that hys Mayster had declared too Kynge Henrye the .viii. his Maiestie , that faith onely iustifieth , but that doctryne as he thought was not to be taught the people , least they shuld be negligent to do good workes .

The sayd M. yonge hath reported , the whych also I hearde that Mayster Doctour Redman shuld saye , that consensus Ecclesie the consent of the Church was but a weake staffe to cleaue to , but dyd exhorte hym to reade the scriptures , for ther was that which shuld comfort him , when he shulde be in soche case as he was then .