A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A12213 of text S117400 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 22524). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 293 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 67 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A12213 STC 22524 ESTC S117400 99852614 99852614 17943 2264183627

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 Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A12213) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 17943) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1083:6) A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. [20], 114, [2] p. Printed by the Societie of Stationers, Dublin : Anno Domini. 1625. A reply to an unpublished manuscript "by one that calleth himselfe Iohn at Stile" (A3r). The first leaf is blank. Running title reads: A reply to an answere, made by a popish adversary. With a final errata leaf. eng Sibthorp, Christopher, -- Sir, d. 1632. -- Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes of Ireland -- Early works to 1800. Royal supremacy (Church of England) -- Early works to 1800. eebo A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, 1625 134 52795 234 0 0 0 0 0 44.32 D The rate of 44.32 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2011-06 Assigned for keying and markup 2011-06 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2011-07 Sampled and proofread 2011-07 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2012-05 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

A REPLY TO AN ANSWERE MADE BY A POPISH ADVERSARIE , TO the two Chapters in the first part of that Booke , which is intituled a Friendly Advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland .

WHEREIN , Those two points ; concerning his Majejesties SUPREMACIE , and the RELIGION , established by the Lawes and Statutes of the Kingdome , be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that Adversarie :

By CHRISTOPHER SIBTHORP , Knight , one of His Majesties Iustices of His Court of Chiefe Place within the same Realme .

PROVER . 24.21 .

Feare the Lord , & the King : & medle not with them that are seditious .

DVBLIN , Printed by the Societie of STATIONER ●● Anno Domini . 1625.

TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE , MY VERIE GOOD LORD , HENRY , LORD VISCOVNT FAVLKLAND , LORD DEPVTIE of Ireland .

AT the divulging of my former Booke , ( Right Honorable ) , there were many great and vaunting speeches uttered by the pretended Catholickes , as if forthwith , or at least , very speedily , it should have beene fully and sufficiently answered . And indeede within a while after , came forth an answere , not to the whole Booke , but onely to a part thereof ; namely , to the first two Chapters contayned in the first part of it , made by one that calleth himselfe Iohn at Stile : who knowing ( as it seemeth ) , the weakenesse of his owne answere , therein promised , a better and further answere , that should then shortly come forth to the whole Booke : which should be so substantially done , as that it should be suteable and correspondent to the three Conditions required by me . This maner of answer , to the whole booke , promised so long since , is the thing that I have all this while expected ; & in expectation whereof , I have hitherto deferred to publish a Reply to any other answere . But having now thus long expected it in vaine , & not knowing when it wil appeare , or whether ever , or never : I thinke it not amisse , in the interim , to reply to that answere , which marcheth and masketh under the name of Iohn at Stile , as having no other , nor better , as yet , to reply unto . Where , first of all , it were fit to learne , what this mans right and proper name is . But because hee is so loth to declare it , I care not much to know it ; for it is not somuch the man , as the matter he delivereth , that I regarde . Howbeit , for his owne credite , and the credite of his cause , ( if any credite had belonged unto it ) , it had beene much better for him to have put no name at all unto that his worke , then a wrong , false , and counterfeit name , as hee hath done . For , if in the verie first entrance , hee thus misdemeaneth himselfe , and feareth not to utter so great an untruth : What good dealing , or sincere truth , may we expect from him , in the residue of his discourse ? Wherein also , whilst hee strived to make more hast then good speede , hee hath shewed himselfe to bee , like canis festinans , caecos edens catulos . For , howsoever he thrusteth himselfe forward , and will needs take upon him , to be Iohannes ad oppositum : yet he speaketh very little , or nothing ad propositum . Insomuch , that sundry , by reason of the futilitie and frivolousnes of that his answere , have thought it not worthy or meete to bee replied unto . Neverthelesse , because all be not of that understanding and judgement , as to bee able to discerne the frivolousnes and weakenesse of it : and that the pretended Catholickes , doe , for their parts , so highly esteeme , approve , and applaude it , ( for Regnat inter caecos Luscus ) : and for that I am also , therein , so particularly touched and taxed : but chiefly and especially , for that Gods Religion , and his Majesties Supremacie , ( which two things ought ever to be most deare unto us all , ) be there purposely and professedly encountred and oppugned : I could doe no lesse , in good dutie , and for all these respects , but make and publish this my Reply unto it : for the further confirmation of the Protestants in those two maine and most weightie points : & for the further confutation also , & conviction of the Papists , & making them yet more and more inexcusable , if after so cleare & abundant evidence of truth , ( and consequently against all good Conscience , ) they will still bee wilfull , stubborne , and unreformed herein : which yet I trust they will not be . For , they know , that durum est contra stimulos calcitrare : Act. 9.5 . Act 5.29 , Proverb. 21.30 . and that there is no hope , that ever they shall or can prevaile , that be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is , Fighters and Contenders against God , and his Religion , or any of his Sacred and Divine Ordinances . Yea , in such a case , what is fitter , then duro nodo , durus cuneus ? And so sayth Tertullian , Tertul. lib. cont. Gnostic . cap 21. Aug. Epist. 48. & Epist. 204. that duritia vincenda est , non suadenda ; and this rule S. Augustine also giveth & teacheth , that , men in error , are first to be taught , admonished and instructed ; but if after all this , they will notwithstanding ( without any ground of sufficient reason ) , be and continue perverse and obstinate , then must terror , punishment , and coactive Lawes , be put in execution , for the reclayming of them . For , Qui Phreneticum ligat & Lethargicum excitat , ambobus molestus , ambos amat , saith the same S. Augustine . But of this point concerning the authoritie of the Regall & Civill sword , and power coactive , to be extended against refractary and contemptuous offenders , ( aswell in matters Ecclesiasticall , and touching Religion , as in matters temporall , and concerning the Common-wealth ) , more is spoken in my former Booke , and in this also afterward , upon occasion given by mine Adversarie : and therefore I shall not neede , heere to speake any further of it , especially to your Lordshippe , whose wisedome can , and doth easily perceive , not onely how lawfull , but how expedient , requisite , and necessary also it is , to be extended and used in his due time and place . These things , ( Right Honorable ) , I am humbly bould to Dedicate unto your Lordshippe : Both , because unto you it is , that under his most Excellent Majestie , the chiefe care of matters concerning the good of this Kingdome , doth appertayne : And because also , such is knowne to be your noble and pious disposition , as that a worke of this sorte , you are ever most readie and willing to accept and patronize . God ( if it be his will ) convert the Papists of this Kingdome from their errors , to his truth : and preserve your Lordshippe to his glorie , the good of his Church , the benefit of this Common-weale , and to the increase of your owne honor in this life , and to your everlasting happinesse in the life to come , through IESVS CHRIST . Amen .

Your Lordshippes humble at Commandement , Christopher Sibthorp .
TO THE Reader .

I Doubt not , ( courteous Reader ) , but you well remember , that , in the conclusion of my former Booke , I desired of him that would make Answere thereunto , these three things : First , that he would answere it , not by parts or peece-meales , but wholy and intirely , from the beginning of it , to the end . Secondly , that he would doe it , not superficially and sophistically , but substantially , soundly , and satisfactorily , if he could . Thirdly , I desired him to doe it , as in love and Charitie , so also with an affection , onely to follow Gods truth ; and withall to set his name unto it , as I had done to that Booke of mine . But none of these requests hath this Answerer beene pleased to performe towards me . For , touching the first : he is so farre from answering the whole Booke , from the beginning of it to the end , that he hath endevoured to answere onely two Chapters thereof , namely the two Chapters , contayned in the first part of it , and no more : And whereas secondly I desired , a sound , sufficient , and satisfactory Answere to be made ; he hath answered even to those two Chapters , ( which himselfe selected to make answere unto , ) very sleightly , slenderly and superficially , and in no sorte substantially , soundly and satisfactory as shall afterward appeare . And touching my third request , which consisteth of diverse branches , let any man judge , that hath seene and read his Answere , whether it bee made , ( as I desired ) in a good , loving and Charitable manner , which would best have beseemed him : or , in a scoffing and deriding fashion , in sundrie places thereof , which doth no way become him : as also whether hee hath done it , with this affection , onely to follow Gods truth , or with an affection rather , to follow and advance mans errors and Constitutions , against a manifest divine truth : and lastly , what reason he had , not onely , not to set his owne right and true name unto it , but in steede thereof , to set a false , fictitious and counterfeit name , calling himselfe , Iohn at Stile . What ? Is he ashamed of his owne right name ? Or doe any use to get credite by putting a wrong name to their worke ? But this is indeede , Dignum patella operculum : a false and counterfeite name , being fittest , & most suteable to a false and counterfeite cause , which is the thing he maintayneth .

Howbeit , as one desirous to excuse himselfe herein , he saith , that my requiring of the Answerer to put his name unto the Answere , is in effect asmuch , as to debarre any man from answering unto it : because of the Statute of 2. Elizabeth , which doth , ( saith he ) , bind mens tongues and pennes within this Kingdome , with the corde of a Praemunire , from oppugning the Supremacie , eyther by word or writing . Whereunto I reply , that he that in answering is required to put his name to his answere , is so farre from being debarred from answering , that cleane contrariewise , hee is thereby permitted to answere , ( if hee please ) , so as he put his name thereunto . Neyther doth that Statute of 2. Eliz. in this Kingdome , inflict the penaltie of a Praemunire for the first offence , See the Statute of 2. Eliz. c. 1. in Ireland . as he surmiseth , but onely losse of goods and Chattels . It is indeede , after once conviction , for the second offence , a Praemunire : and for the third , High Treason . If then the penaltie of a Praemunire , by that Statute , be the thing he feared , you see there was no cause for him to feare it , hee being never before convicted or attaynted of that offence . And is it not strange , that he being a Lawyer , ( as he saith he is , ) and one of those , ( as he likewise affirmeth , ) that were debarred from pleading , for not taking the Oath of Supremacie , should neverthelesse be so ignorant in his owne profession , concerning that Statute , ( although himselfe also cite it , ) as not to know what the penaltie is , for the first offence therein ? May not then his owne words be here rightly returned to his owne bosome , that seeing , in his owne facultie he sheweth no greater skill ; Can it be imagined , that going out of his owne element , into the great Citie of Divinitie , hee will doe any more , then the fish on the shoare , to gaspe a little for ayre ? But admit , that for the first offence upon that Statute , the penaltie had beene a Praemunire , as hee conceived : Will he therefore bee so faint-hearted , in that his supposed Catholicke cause ? How doth this agree with that , which he saith afterward , that an Angell or a Man , is bound by the instinct of Nature , to love God better then themselves ? Yea , he observeth that in the Naturall bodie of Man , the hand will be content to loose it selfe , for the preservation of the head , and of the rest of the members : And that in the Politicke Body of the Common-weale , any good Subject will imbrace death for the conservation of his King , and the Common-weale : and thereupon he concludes , that so also should any good Christian member of the Mysticall body of Christ , willingly undergo all disasters in the world , in attestation of his love to Christ , and of his willingnesse to preserve the honour and common good of his Church . And this motive , ( saith he , in that his Epistle Dedicatorie , ) made him , ( though a Lawyer , ) to interpose himselfe , for the defence of the Mysticall Body of Christ , and to answere , as he hath done , in the behalfe thereof . Now then doth it become him , who seemeth here to be so magnanimous and couragious in his cause , to shew himselfe neverthelesse so extreamely timorous , as for feare of a Praemunire , not to dare to set his right and true name unto that his Answere ?

Yea , the premises being well considered , what reason hath he to taxe me , ( as sometimes he doth , ) for that being a Lawyer by profession , I neverthelesse meddle in these matters of Divinitie , and concerning Religion ? For , I gave before , as I thinke , a sufficient Apologie for these my doings , in the Preface of my former Booke which he answereth not , nor is able to answere . And here I now may and doe further adde , that even this Man , ( mine Adversarie ) hath by his owne example justified me ; inasmuch as he being likewise a Lawyer , ( as himselfe affirmeth ) , doth neverthelesse , ( as you see , ) by his answering those two Chapters in my Booke , meddle in these matters of Divinitie , and concerning Religion , aswell as I. And not onely his personall example , but the doctrine also , and reason he delivereth , ( namely , that every good member of the Mysticall body of Christ , ought to interpose himselfe , for the defence of the honour of Christ , & of his Church , ) serveth very strongly to justifie my doings herein , not only as lawfull , but as requisite and necessarie , and such as in dutie ought not to bee omitted . But moreover , why doth he Dedicate that his Answere , being a worke of Divinitie , to his dearest Countrie-men , The Lawyers of Ireland , if Lawyers had nothing to doe in these matters of Divinitie , or if the knowledge of things of that kind , did not belong unto them ? Yea , who knoweth not , that Lawyers , and men of all professions and estates , have soules to save ; and that at the houre of their death , it is not their skill or knowledge in Law , Physicke , or any other their worldly callings & professions , ( which serve onely but for this life , ) that can doe them that good , or yeeld them that comfort touching the next world & eternall happinesse , that the knowledge of Divinitie , and of Gods true Religion , and the care and observance thereof , in their life time , will be able to afford .

But being debarred from pleading , for not taking the oath of Supremacie , he saith , he was desirous to reade , what solide arguments I had made to invest the King with the supremacie : & finding them , ( as Belshazzar , being weighed was found , in the Prophecie of Daniel , ) minus habens , that is , too light , Dan. 5.27 . he saith he was encouraged to answere them . But first , how cometh he now to answere any part of my Booke , who had said before in the same his Epistle Dedicatory , that he presented it to some of the most learned of his catholicke Clergie , & that none of them after a mature deliberation , held it worthy of an answer ? what ? will he thinke it worthy of an answere , which those of the most learned of his Catholicke clergie thought it not worthy of ? Secondly , if he had weighed my arguments , not with false Romish weights , but with true & divine weights , that is , in such a ballance , as God weighed Belshazzar , he would have found them weighty enough , though Belshazzar was found light . Thirdly , little reason hath he to call & account those arguments light , somewhereof be such , as he dares not touch nor medle with them , but doth , as children use to do , who , what they cannot reade , they skippe over : So , what he can no way answere , he pretermitteth : & those which he dare be bold to touch , doe neverthelesse shew themselves to be of that weight and strength , as that he is not able to stirre , or move them , much lesse to remove them , or to lift them up from that ground , whereon they rest . Himselfe doth what he can , to answere them ; yet distrusting his owne Answere , as minus habens , ( to use his owne wordes against him , ) that is , as being too light , weake , and insufficient , hee promiseth a more satisfying Answere that should afterward come forth from those that have more Law and Divinitie , then eyther he , or I. Yea , he saith againe , That my Booke shall be shortly answered , in my owne straine of Divinitie , with the three conditions required by me . So that , both by this his owne answere , as also by that further future promised answere , it is verie c●●dent , that howsoe●●● in words , hee and his partakers would ●●●me to slight any ●●●ke , & the matter therein contayned , ye● revera , and indeede , they thinke the force and strength of it to be such , against both Pope , and Poperie , as that they can have ●o●● , nor quiet in their mindes , untill they have made , ( which they w●●never be able to doe , ) a good , sufficient , and satisfactorie Answere thereunto . As for that hee saith , that if in steed thereof , I had made a solide Compendium of the Law , I had gained an applause : I would have him know , that neyther in this kind of learning , nor in any other , doe I seeke o● hunt after ostentation , vaine-glory , popular applause , or prayse of men , ( which be the things , that Papists in their writings doe too much affect , ) but both in that my former worke , & in this also , the things that I sought & still doe seeke after , is Gods glory , & the advancement , & preferment of his truth & religion , & the due authority , & true honour belonging to our most gracious , & most godly & Christian Soveraigne , which was then K. Iames , & is now K. Charles his most worthy successor , whom God ever blesse , protect , & preserve : & therewithall the generall & publicke benefit both of Church and Common-weale . I graunt that my profession and place , would have allowed me , to have written of points of Law , and concerning Civill Iustice , and externall Peace : But I have rendered the reason in the Epistle Dedicatorie of my former Booke , why I medled not with those things , Namely , because the pretended Catholickes of this Kingdome , in those points , shewed no refractarinesse or opposition , but good conformitie and obedience : And , that , their defect was onely in the two other points , ( viz. ) Concerning the Kings Supremacie , and the Religion : whereof therefore , there then was , & still is , greatest neede , and most urgent occasion to treate . Wherefore , hee that in such a Case , would rather have had a Compendium of the Law , then these two most necessarie , and most important matters to bee dealt in for the generall good of the kingdome , seemeth in my understanding , to have made a great dispendium of his wit and judgement .

Neverthelesse hee proceedeth , and saith , that because hee cannot commaund the Presse , he will imploy his endevours , to answere , in a Manuscript , my first Booke ; ( he meaneth the first part of my Booke , contayning those two Chapters aforesaid : ) But what necessitie was there for him thus to publish his Answere in a Manuscript , which he might have put in Print , if he had so pleased ? For , although he could not commaund the Protestants Presse ( neyther was it fit , he should ) , yet the Presse , which some say , the Papists have of their owne , within this kingdome , he might have eyther commaunded or intreated : or if they have no Presse within this kingdome , he might have sent or carried his Answere unto Doway , or to Rhemes , or to some other place beyond the Seas , where it might have beene printed , if they had held it worthy the Printing . Seeing then that hee might have printed it ; Why did he rather choose to divulge it in a Manuscript ? Did he thinke , that by that course used , he might the more freely speake and write what he listed , and that no man would answere or reply unto it , though he be never so much touched in it , or be the cause , therein handled , of never so great importance ? But what reason is there for any man , to clayme , expect , or to be allowed such a priviledge ? Yea , inasmuch as mens hearts may be poysoned , and seduced , aswell by Manuscripts , and written Bookes and Pamphlets , as by those that be Printed , especially after they be once scattered and dispersed abroad , ( as this his Answere is ) , into diverse mens hands , and are withall supposed by the pretended Catholickes , ( for whose sake all that labour is bestowed ) , to contayne nothing but truth : I see not but I may bee as bold to reply to his Manuscript , in Print , ( the cause also so requiring ) , as he made bold to answere a part of my Printed Booke , in a Manuscript . And therefore have I here replied unto it , partly in respect of my selfe , whom it concerneth to justifie , and make good the matter contayned in those two Chapters of my former Booke , which he oppugneth : and partly in respect of himselfe , who seemeth to be ●●o● suffertus , & over highly conceited of himselfe , Prover. 26.5 . whom therefore Salomon in his Proverbs adviseth to answere : and partly & chiefely in respect of the pretended Catholikes of this Nation , whom by that meanes he seeketh to seduce & abuse , in the p●ints both of his Majesties Supremacie , & the Religion : Both which points , ( they being so high and eminent ) , it behooveth all good Christians , and all good Subjects , evermore carefully & dutifully to defend and mantaine . As for that godly , learned , Reverend , and worthy Bishoppe of Meath , whom my Adversary mentioneth in his Epistle Dedicatorie : I shall neede to say nothing of him , because himselfe will ever be best able to speake for himselfe , whensoever anie shall shew themselves in opposition against him .

But to proceede with mine Adversary , if he be , ( as he saith he is ) debarred from pleading for not taking the Oath of Supremacie ; Whom can he blame therein , but himselfe , for his so unjust refusing to take so just an Oath ? Against which throughout all his answere , himselfe neyther sheweth , nor is able to shew any good exception : which , no doubt , hee would there have shewed , where the Supremacie was purposely debated , if he had beene able to have shewed it . But to make him yet the more in excusable , ( if he will still be obstinate , which I would have , neyther him , nor any others to be ) , I have here further , and at large declared , the right of the Kings Supremacie , over all manner of Persons , and in all kindes of causes , Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill , for his , & all other mens most ample and most full satisfaction in that point . And yet my Adversarie saith , That he will Arme himselfe with little Divinitie , and lesse Philosophie , to enter the lists against mee : which though it be spoken , ( after the Papisticall manner ) , proudly , scornefully , and like another Goliah ; yet therein hee speaketh truer then he was aware of . For not to speake of his Philosophy , ( which he sheweth indeede to be verie little ) , this my Reply to his Answere , will discover him to be as very a Punie in Divinitie , ( as touching any good skill , or found judgement , in it ) , as he is in Law . In somuch that upon reading of this Booke , his answere will appeare to be as good as no Answere , yea that it had beene better for his cause , if hee had beene silent , and spoken nothing in it : Such is the advantage that truth ever getteth against falshood , when falshood dare be so bold , to stand in opposition against it . As for the multitude of his idle words , his many needelesse Sillogismes , his extravagant sentences , and impertinent discourses , I passe them over , for the most part , not vouchsafing an Answere to them : they being inserted , but to fill up paper , to mispend time , and vainely to delight and please himselfe , and his followers . But where he hath alledged any thing that 〈◊〉 materiall , and pertinent to the cause , and of weight , or moment , to that have I answered and replied , as was fit I should . In which my reply , I have considered him , not as he is Iohn at Stile , ( for in that respect , Iohn at Downe , had beene fittest to reply unto him ) but as one that is an Adversarie to that Cause I propounded in my former Booke , whatsoever his name , or profesion bee . And therefore doe I not so much answere the Man , as the matter by him objected and alledged .

Now then , although these be the Workes of a Lay-Man , yet if you find truth in them , esteeme them never the worse , because of that : For , non quis dicat , sed quid dicatur , attende : saith Isocrates to Demonicus . And , Gerson de exam. doctr Panor . tit. de Elect. Ca●●gnificasti . Saepè etiam est Holitor valde opportuna locutus . And you know also , who taught to this effect , that plus credendum est vel simplici Laico , Scripturam●● proferenti , quam , vel Papae , vel toti simul Concilio . For my part , I desire no further to be beleeved , then that shall be found true that I write : neyther ought any others in their writings , ( he they professed Divines , or whosoever else , ) any further to be beleeved , then so . And yet if that would any thing the more prevayle with the pretended Catholickes , I can assure them , that the Positions and Doctrine in both these Bookes of mine delivered , be the Positions , and Doctrine , not onely of one , but of many ( and those learned ) professed Divines , as is to be seene at large in their sundrie workes and writings , extant against the Papists : which the Papists were never yet able , nor ever will be able substantially and soundly to refell , and confute . And therefore , I have no cause to be ashamed of my Teachers , but doe thinke it rather honour and reputation , freely , ingeniously , and thankefully , to acknowledge , as I doe , where , & of whom , I have learned these things . But , having thus answered his Epistle Dedicatorie , I now proceede to that which followeth .

Of the first Chapter of the former Booke , Concerning the Sapremacie .

MY Adversarie , before hee commeth to answere to that Chapter in the first part of my former Booke , concerning the Supremacie , busieth himselfe much to declare two Positions : The first is , that the Regall & Priestly powers or Offices , bee distinct : and for proofe of this , he citeth Gelasius , and some other testimonies . But why doth he thus trouble himselfe in vaine ? For this the Protestants doe confesse , namely , that the Prince-hood , and Priest-hood ; the Regall and Episcopall Powers or Offices , be things distinct : So that neyther the King may administer , or execute that which is proper or peculiar to the Office of Bishoppes , Pastors , or Ministers Ecclesiasticall ; nor on the other side , may any Bishoppe , Pastor , or Minister , by vertue of that his Ecclesiasticall office or calling , intrude , or take upon him , the use or exercise of the Civill , or Temporall sword which rightly and properly belongeth to Kings and Princes , Rom. 13.4 . and to such as have that authoritie derived from them . And therefore doth S. Chrysostome , ( distinguishing their Offices ) say : Ille cogit , hic exhortatur : Chrysost. hom. 4. de verb Esai . V●ai Dom. Ille habet arma sensibilia , hic arma spiritualia : The King compelleth , the Priest exhorteth : The King hath sensible weapons , the Priest hath spirituall weapons . According whereunto , S. Paul also saith of himselfe , and of all Ecclesiasticall Ministers , 2. Cor. 10.4 . That the weapons of their warfare , are not carnall , but mightie through God . It is true ( which my adversarie saith ) , that the subject , on which the spirituall authority worketh , is the 〈◊〉 of man : and the subject on which the Regall or Temporall authoritie worketh , is the bodie of man : But this difference , maketh nothing for him , as touching the point in Question : For all men know it , and himselfe will confesse it , ( if he be not extreamely perverse ) , that it is not the Soules of men , but their Bodies , that the King by his Regall authoritie worketh upon , and which he commaundeth , and externally compelleth to dutie , and good obedience ( if otherwise they will not become obedient : ( Neyther doth he punish any offendors in Ecclesiasticall causes , Ecclesiastically , and by Church Censures , ( as Bishoppes , and Ecclesiasticall Ministers , doe ) , but Civilly , & in a Temporall manner , as , namely , by fining , imprisonment , banishment , and such like corporall & pecuniarie punishments , as properly belong to the Regall & Temporall authoritie , to inflict . But , mine adversarie saith further , that the end whereat the Regall authoritie aymeth , is correspondencie of humane societie : witnesse , ( saith he ) . S. Paul : ut quietam & tranquillam vitam agamus : But why doth he leave out the other words , that follow , namely , In omni pietate , & c ? Take all the words of S. Paul together , and they be these : I exhort , ( saith he ) that , first of all , supplications , prayers , intercessions , 1. Tim. 2.1.2 . and giving of thankes , be made for all men ; for Kings , and all that are in authoritie , that we may leade a quiet and peaceable life , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in all godlinesse and honestie . By which words so put together , it appeareth , That S. Paul would have Christians to pray thus specially for Kings , and Princes , not onely to this end , which my Adversary supposeth , ( viz. ) for the mantainance and preservation of externall peace , and correspondencie of humane societie ; but to this end also , ( and that chiefely ) , that Pietie , Godlinesse , and Religion , may , by their meanes , be continued , countenanced , and protected amongst them . And this had the Christian Emperors learned , in ancient time For , Iustinian , that Christian Emperor , in his dayes , Novel . Const. 6. spake thus : The true Religion of God , and honest conversation of the Priests , is our chiefest care . Legum Theod. No●●el . tit. 3. de In●ae●● & Samaritaine . And in this sort likewise spake Valentinian , and Theodosius , Emperors , saying : The search of true Religion , we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Majestie . And therefore also did S. Augustine say long agone , That it is enjoyned Kings from God , Aug. contr. Crescun lib. 3 cap ●1 that in their kingdomes , they should commaund good things , and forbid evill things , not onely such things as belong to humane societie , but such things also as belong to Gods Religion . This cleare and most evident testimonie of S. Augustine , to declare the authoritie of Kings , aswell in matters Divine , and concerning Religion , as in matters Civill , & Temporall , I alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke , pag. 10. whereunto neverthelesse , as to many other things in my booke contayned , My Adversarie is pleased to answere nothing .

The second Position he busieth himselfe in , is that the Regall Power or authoritie , is subordinate to the S●cerdotall or Spirituall . It is true , that Kings & Princes , notwithstanding their Regall power , be subordinate and subject to God , and his authoritie . But what of this ? Indeede , if Ecclesiasticall Ministers spake to Kings and Princes , in their owne names , and by their owne authoritie , and uttered their owne will and pleasure , there might be some reason in that which he would conclude : but seeing they are to speake unto them , not their owne will , but the will and word of the Almightie , and in his Name , and as Embassadors , Ministers , Messengers , and servants unto him , no such consequent can be inferred . 2. Cor 5 20. 1 Cor. 4 1.2 . For if a King send an Esquier , or any other inferior servant of his , on a message , to a Duke , Earle , or other Noble-man of the Realme : This servant speaking in the King his Masters name , and delivering his message , is therein to be obeyed : Will any thereupon conclude , Ergo , That Esquier or servant , is greater , or superior , as in respect of himselfe , or of his owne person , then eyther the Duke or the Earle , or the Noble-man ? No man , I thinke , will be so absurd . And yet my Adversarie goeth on , and amplifieth the Sacerdotall , and spirituall power , saying : That how much the Soule in perfection exceedes the Bodie : The eternall blisse , the temporall felicitie : The Divine Lawes , the humane lawes : By somuch doth the Spirituall authoritie exceede the Temporall . But all this while , he should remember and observe , wherein , and in what respects , it is , that this excellencie of the one , above the other , doth consist . For as it is true , that in respect of converting soules , and fitting them for Gods kingdome , by preaching of Gods Word , Administring of the Sacraments , and exercise of the Ecclesiasticall Discipline ; the Spirituall function , and authoritie is to be preferred , before the Regall or temporall : So no lesse true is it , that in respect of the temporall Power of the Sword , externally to command , compell , and to punish offendors , in causes both Ecclesiasticall , and Civill , the Regall & Temporall , Office , and Authoritie , is to be preferred before the Episcopall , or Sacerdotall . When therefore he supposeth , that the King or Prince , in respect of the Priest , is but as the bodie is , in respect of the Soule ; and that hee hath no more power and authoritie , over Priests and Bishoppes , then the bodie hath over the Soule : How doth he prove this fond conceite ? For it is not the credite or testimonie of his S. Thomas , ( as he calleth him , ) who lived more then 1200. yeares after CHSIST , and was overwhelmed with the corruption of his time , and wedded to the Sea of Rome , that can bee any sufficient proofe of that idle fantazie : Yea , it is apparant that to some purposes , the Regall Power , & Office , hath in it , the nature , and resemblance of the soule , aswell as the Sacerdotall , or Episcopall hath , to some other purposes . For as the soule commandeth the bodie , so hath the King , power to command the Priest , and may by as good right , punish all maner of offendors , Civilly , and by temporall punishments , as Bishops and Clergie men may punish any Ecclesiastically , and by the Church censures . To make this the better to appeare , beside that which is spoken in my former Booke , observe , first , that Moses , who was as a King or a Prince in Israell , commanded , not only the Levites , Deut. 33.5 . Deut. 31 . 2●.26 . which bare the Arke of the Covenant of the Lord , and that in a matter Ecclesiasticall , and concerning their very Office : but he commanded also , even Aaron , the high Priest , in a matter likewise Ecclesiasticall , and concerning his verie Office , saying thus unto him : Take the Censer , Numb. 16 . 46.4● and put fire therein off the Altar , and put therein Incense : and goe quickely unto the Congregation , & make an Attonement for them : For there is wrath gone out from the Lord , the plague is begun . Then Aaron tooke , as Moses commanded him , &c. He , Exod. 32.21 2● moreover , called Aaron , the high Priest , to an account , for his bad doings , and removed him for the same : Whereupon Aaron answered humbly , and submissively unto him as to his Soveraigne Lord , saying : Let not the wrath of my Lord waxe fierce , &c. Numb. 12.11 . In like sort did Aaron speake unto Moses in another place , saying : My Lord , I beseech thee , &c. 1. Sam. 22.12.15 So did also Abimelech the high Priest , answere to his king submissively and dutifully , saying thus unto him : Here am I , my Lord , &c. Let not the King impute any thing to his servant , nor to all the house of my Father , for thy servant knew nothing of all this , lesse or more . The Prophets likewise , as well as the Priests , and high Priests , did acknowledge this humble submission and subjection unto their kings : as is evident by the example of the Prophet Nathan ; who when he came into the presence of the King , 1. King . 1 23. &c. he made obeysance to the king , upon his face to the ground , &c.

Ioshua , the successor of Moses did likewise , as a King or Prince , commaund even the Priests and Levites , aswell as the rest of the people : as appeareth by the acclamation and answere they made unto him , Iosh. 1.17.18 . saying thus : As we obeyed Moses in all things , so will wee obey thee , &c. Whosoever shall rebell against thy commandement , and will not obey thy words , in all that thou commandest him , let him be put to death . Iosh 6.6 . Iosh 5 3.4 . Iosh. 5.10 . Iosh. 7.24.25 . Iosh 8 30. Iosh. 8.34.35 . And it is further manifest that he also dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Temporall : for , he would have the children of Israell to be Circumcised , and the Passeover to be kept , and the Man that had offended in the excommunicate thing , to be punished . He also builded an Altar for their sacrifices & offerings : He reade the whole Law unto them , the blessings and cursings : There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded , which Ioshua reade not before all the Congregation of Israell , aswell before the Women , and the Children , as the stranger that was conversant among them . Hee renewed the Covenant between God and the people , and caused them to put away the strange Gods that were amongst them : Iosh. 24.23.24.25.31 . Insomuch that by his diligent care , and good governement , Israell served the Lord , all the dayes of Ioshua .

Likewise of that Godly King Iosiah , it is recorded , that he commanded the high Priest , aswell as the other Priests , and dealt in matters also Ecclesiasticall , and concerning Gods service and Religion For , thus it is written of him : That hee commanded Hilkiah the high Priest , 2 King . 23.4 . and the priests of the second Order , and the keepers of the Doore , to bring out of the Temple of the Lord all the vessels that were made for Baal , and for the Grove , and for all the Hoste of heaven ; and he burnt them without Ierusalem , in the fields of Kedron , 2 King . 23.5 . and carried the powder of them into Bethel . And hee put downe the Chemarims , whom the kings of Iuda had founded to burne incense in the high places , and in the Cities of Iuda , and about Ierusalem : and also them that burnt incense unto Baal , to the Sunne , and to the Moone , and to the Planets , and to all the Hoste of heaven , &c. He commanded also the Passeover to be kept , &c. Hee purged Iuda and Ierusalem , vers. 21. from the high places , the Groves , and the carved and molten Images : Yea , 2 Chro. 34. vers. 3.4.7.33 . he tooke away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertayned to the Children of Israell , ● compelled all that were found in Israell , to serve the Lord their God . Had not also King Salomon authoritie over the Priests and Levites , and did not he likewise deale in matters Ecclesiasticall , and concerning Religion , when he set the courses of the Priests to their offices , according to the order of David his Father , 2. Chro. 8.14.15 & the Levites in their watches , to prayse and minister before the Priests everie day , and the Porters by their courses at everie Gate : For so was the commandement of David , the man of God ? And the Text saith , That they declined not from the commandement of the King , concerning the Priests , and the Levites , &c. He removed also Abiathar , from being priest unto the Lord , and set Sadoc in his roome . 1. King . 2.27.35 1 King 8.22.23 24.25.26.27 . Hee also builded an house and Temple unto God : and did dedicate the Temple in his owne person .

Did not also King Asa meddle with men , and matters Ecclesiasticall , 2 Chro. 14.3.4.5 when he tooke away the Altars of the strange Gods , and the high places , and brake downe the Images , and cut downe the groves , and commanded Iuda to seeke the Lord God of their Fathers , and to doe according to the Law & commandement , &c. Therefore the kingdome was quiet before him . And he tooke an oath of all Iuda , that , Whosoever would not seeke the Lord God of Israell , should be slaine , whether he were small , or great , Man or Woman : And they sware unto the Lord , with a loud voyce , and with shouting , and with Trumpets , and with Cornets : And all Iuda rejoyced at the Oath : 2 Chron 15.12 13 14.15.16 . &c. for they had sworne unto the Lord with all their heart , and sought him with an whole desire , and he was found of them : Hee also deposed Maachah his Mother , from her regencie , because shee had made an Idoll in a Grove : and hee broke downe her Idoll , and stamped it , and burnt it , at the brooke Kidron .

King Iehosaphat did the like , when he sought the Lord God of his Fathers , 2. Chron. 17.3 4 5.6.7.8.9 . and walked in his commandements , and not after the doings of Israell . Therefore the Lord stablished the kingdome in his hand . And all Iuda brought to Iehosaphat presents : and he had riches and honour in abundance . And he lift up his heart unto the wayes of the Lord . Moreover , he tooke away the high Places , and Groves out of Iuda . Hee also sent his Princes , and with them , Priests , and Levites , to teach in the Cities of Iuda , & they taught in Iuda , & had the Booke of the Law of the Lord with them , and went throughout all the Cities of Iuda , ● . Chron. 19 , 8. and taught the people . Againe , in Ierusalem , Iehosaphat set of the Levites , and of the Priests , and of the chiefe of the Families of Israell , for the judgement and cause of the Lord , &c.

Did not also that good and Godly king Hezekiah , shew his authoritie over Priests and Levites , 2. Chron. 29 3 4.5.6.7.8.9.10 11 12.13.14.15.16 and in matters also Ecclesiasticall , when he opened the dores of the house of the Lord , and brought in the Priests and the Levites , and said thus unto them ? Heare me , yee Leuites , sanctifie now your selves , and sanctifie the house of the Lord God of your fathers , and carrie forth the filthinesse out of the Sanctuarie , &c. And they gathered their brethren , and sanctified themselves , and came according to the commandement of the King , and by the wordes of the Lord , to clense the house of the Lord : And the Priests went into the inner parts of the house of the Lord to clense it , and brought out all the uncleannesse that they found in the Temple into the Court of the house of the Lord : And the Levites tooke it , to carrie it out , to the brooke Kidron . Hee also commanded the Priests , Vers. 21 . 2● . the Sonnes of Aaron , to offer sacrifices , on the Altar of the Lord : And hee sent to all Israell , and Iuda , & wrote Letters to Ephraim , and Manasseh , that they should come to the house of the Lord at Ierusalem , to keepe the Passeover , unto the Lord God of Israell : Hee appointed the courses of the Priests and Levites , 2. Chron. 30.1 . by their turnes , everie man according to his Office , 2 Chron. 31.2 . both Priests and Levites , for the burnt offerings , to Minister and to give thankes , and to prayse in the Gates of the Tents of the Lord : Hee also tooke away the high Places , 2. King . 18.41 and brake the Images , and cut downe the Groves , and brake in pieces the brazen Serpent that Moses had made : for unto those dayes , did the Children of Israell burne incense to it .

Yea , reade the historie of all , & every one of the Godly kings of Israell , and Iuda , and you will finde , that they all , as Supreme governors , within their own Dominions , commanded aswell the Priests , as the people , and dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion , aswell as in matters Civill and Temporall . Why then should not Christian Kings and Princes have the like Authoritie within their Kingdomes , which those good and Godly kings of Israell , and Iuda had within theirs ? Will any say that those Kings of Israell , and Iuda , dealt in those matters Ecclesiasticall , by the counsell and advise of the Prophets , and the Priests ? What if they did , or what is this to the matter ? For , the Question is not by whose Counsell , or advise , but by whose Authoritie those things were done . Kings , even in Civill and Temporall affaires , be also Counselled , and advised by learned , wise , and grave Men : Doth this therefore prove , that they have no Supreme Authoritie , in matters Civill and Temporall ? For , ( by such a reason ) , you may aswell conclude against the one , as against the other . The direction then , advise , and counsell , which Bishops or others give to Kings , and Princes in matters eyther Ecclesiasticall or Civill , doth not impeach or oppugne their Supreme commands , or Supreme Authoritie , eyther in the one case or in the other . But some doe then here object , that those Kings and Princes of Israell and Iuda , had an high Priest , or chiefe Priest among them , and therefore that there must be likewise , an high priest , or supreme Pastor in the Christian Church . Howbeit , first the high Priest in that Iudaicall , and Israeliticall Church , was not Supreme , but subject to those Kings , and their commaund , as before appeareth . Secondly , it is granted , that there is also an high Priest in the Christian Church , but it is not , ( as they fondly suppose ) the Pope of Rome , but CHRIST IESVS onely , ( as the Epistle to the Hebrewes abundantly declareth : ) who is therefore expressely called and affirmed to be our high Priest : Hebr. 9.11 . Hebr 5.5 . H b 4 14. Hebr 7 26. For such an high Priest , ( saith that Epistle ) , it became us to have , which is holy , harmelesse , undefiled , separate from sinners , and made higher then the heavens : of which sort , I am sure , the Pope of Rome is not . Againe , S. Peter sheweth , that not himselfe , much lesse the Pope of Rome , his pretended successor , nor any other mortall man whatsoever , 1. Pet. 5.4 . but CHRIST IESVS onely , is the Supreme Pastor , or chiefe Sheepheard , over all Pastors and Sheepheards of the severall flockes of CHRIST , in the world ; and in respect of that his high Prerogative , Heb● . 13.20 . he is also called the great Sheepeheard of the sheepe . So that if any would know , whom God hath appointed to be the high Priest , & the Supreme Pastor , over the whole Christian Church Militant upon earth : They here see , that it is not the Pope , but CHRIST IESVS onely . Yea , as touching the Pope of Rome , whom they so much dote upon , they were never yet able , nor ever will be able , to prove , that God hath any where in his Word , constituted and appointed him to be , the high Priest , or Supreme Pastor , over all the Pastors and Bishops in the world , much lesse , to beare the Supremacie over all Emperors , Kings , and Princes : Yea , for the space of divers hundred yeares after CHRIST , did even the Bishops of Rome themselves , acknowledge , and performe , subjection to the Emperors : as appeareth , not onely by those three examples of Meltiades , Leo , & Gregory the great , mentioned in my former Booke , ( whereunto my Adversarie is still pleased to answere nothing , ) but by other Bishops of Rome likewise : For also Anastasius the second , Bishop of Rome , spake thus to the Emperor Anastasius : Pro fide Catholica , humilis pietati tuae precator occurro , &c. I come , ( saith he ) , Epist ad Anast . an humble suppliant to your pietie , for the Catholicke faith . And hee saith further , That God would have , not himselfe , though he were the Bishop of Rome , but the Emperor , velut eius Vicarium praesidere in terris , as his vicar , or in his stead , Jbid. cap. 6 to be the cbiefe upon earth . Pelagius also the first , a Bishop of Rome , writing to Childebert King of France , being required to make a confession of his faith , that so he might shew himselfe not to differ from those , that were of the Orthodoxe beleefe , Pelag Epist. 16. Concil. edi● . Bin tom. 2. pag 633. speaks likewise in this humble and duetifull maner unto him : Quanto nobis studio ac labore satagendum est , ut pro auferendo suspitionis scandalo , obsequium confessionis nostra Regibus ministremus : quibus nos etiam subditos esse , sanctae Scripturae praecipiunt : With how great care and labour , ought we to strive , and endevour , for the taking away of the scandall of suspition , to yeelde the obedience of our confession , unto Kings : to whom , the holy Scriptures also command us to bee subject . From him , passe to the times of Agatho , another Bishop of Rome , in whose dayes , was assembled the sixth Councell of Constantinople : In that Councell , there is an Epistle of his , to the Emperor , who required him to send some to supply his place , Concil. Constant . 6. act 4 C●ncil . edit . Bin. tom. 3. pag. 13. in that Councell : To whom Pope Agatho answereth , and writeth in that Epistle , That to those things which the Emperor commanded , hee would promptam obedientiam exhibere , yeelde ready obedience . Againe , he saith : Hoc Imperialis benignitas vestra clementer jubens , hortata est , & nostra pusillitas , quod jussum est , obsequenter implevit . This , your Imperiall benignitie , gently commanding , hath required : and our meanesse , What was commanded hath obediently performed . Yea , he speaketh yet further , in this most submissive sort , to the Emperor : Obsecro itaque pi●ssime atque clementissime Auguste , atque una cum mea exiguitate , Sub finem . omnis Anima Christiana , flexo genu , suppliciter deprecatur , &c. I therefore beseech you , most pious and clement Emperor , and together with my meanesse , every Christian soule with bended knee , humbly intreateth , &c. Goe on to the times of Pope Hadrian , in whose daies it was , That the second Nicene Councell was assembled : There also you may observe , in what humble sort , he likewise writeth to the Emperor : Concil. Nicen 2 ●pist . 1. Concil. edit . Bin. tom. 3. pag. 257. Deprecantes cum magna cordis dilectione mansuetissimam vestram Clementiam , & tanquam praesentialiter humo stratus , & vestris vestigijs provolutus , quaeso , & coram Deo deposco : Praying with great affection of heart , your most milde Clemencie , and as in your presen●e being cast upon the ground , and prostrate , ( saith he , ) before your feete , I beseech , and in the presence of God , doe earnestly desire , &c. And in another Epistle againe , hee speaketh thus . Obsecrantes ex animi fervore , In Conc. Ni●em . 2. act 2. ibidem pag. 312. vestram mansuetudinem obtestando , & veluti praesentes genibus advoluti & coram vestigia pedum volutando , ego cum fratribus coram Deo supplico , obtestor , &c. Beseeching you out of the fervor of our minde , by intreating your gentlenesse , and as if wee were present , being cast upon our knees , and kneeling before your presence , I with my brethren in the presence of God , am an humble suppliant , and doe earnestly beseech , &c. By all which you see , verie clearely and infallibly , that for the space of many hundred yeares after CHRIST , even the Bishops , and Popes of Rome themselves , were , and so did declare themselves to be , not superiors , but inferiors , yea humble suppliants and subject to the Emperors : and consequently , that the Emperors in all those times , as well de Iure , as de facto , had the Supremacie over them , aswell as other Bishpos . For , so it appeareth , 〈◊〉 that they had , and ought to have : in asmuch as Pope Pelagius himselfe , expressely affirmeth , ( as you heard before , Quibus nos etiam subditos esse , sanctae Scripturae praecipiunt : inquit Pelagius . ) that the holy Scriptures aid so command .

Secondly . Jt being a thing , verie demonstratively evident , That the Christian Emperors , in those former and ancient times , had the Supremacie and command , even of the Bishops of Rome , aswell as of other Bishops : let us now proceede , and see , whether they did not also deale in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as the good and Godly kings of Israell and Iuda did : And it is also very apparant , that they did . For proofe whereof , Constantine , that Godly and Christian Emperor , spake in this sort : Euseb. de vita Const lib. 2 c. 28 Socrat. lib 1. cap. 22. las . By my Minister● , ( saith he ) mankind is brought to the keeping and observing of the most sacred Law : by the service which I performe to God , all things every where , are setled in order . Yea the barbarous Nations , which till this time , knew not the trueth , now prayse the name of God sincerely , whom they reverence for dread of us . He also called Councells , when cause required . Euseb. de vita Const. lib. 1 c. 37 & lib. 3 cap. 63. He decreed that Heretickes should have no Temples and that in no place publicke or privat , from that day forward , any of their assemblies should be permitted .

Socrat lib. 1. cap. 20. lat. When the Councell of Tyrus was assembled , he commanded them first , to discusse the trueth of such crimes , as were objected against Athanasius . Athanasius also was loth to come before that Councell , save that he feared the threatning Letters of Constantine , written to this effect : If any , Euseb. de vita Const. lib. 4. c. 42. ( saith he ) which I thinke not , in contempt of Our mandate , sayle to come before you , Wee will send a warrant from our Royall Authoritie , that he shall bee banished : To teach him , what it is for Bishops , and Cleargie men , to withstand the commandement of the Chiefe Ruler , defending the trueth . Athanas . apol. 2. C●m multas videre 〈◊〉 . Socrat. li. 1 ca. 21. lat. Wherefore Athanasius and the Bishops of his part appeared : But finding that Councell very partiall , they appealed from them to the Emperor . And Athanasius himselfe fled to the Emperor , beseeching him to send for the Bishops of that Councell , & to examine their Acts , which that Christian Emperor did accordingly , and thereupon wrote thus to the who e Councell : Your Synod , ( saith he ) , hath decreed , Socrat lib. 1 , cap. 22. lat. I know not what , in a tumult , and uprore , whilst you seeke to pervert trueth , by your pestilent disorder , for hatred against your fellow Bishops : But the divine providence , will , I doubt not , scatter the mischiefe of your contention , and make it plaine in our sight , whether your Assembly hath had an● regard of trueth or no. You are therefore , all of you , t resort hither , to shew the reas n of y●ur doings : for so it doth seeme good and expedient unto me . For which end , I wi●ed this rescript to be sent unto you , That as many of you as were present at the Councell of Tyrus , without delay repayre to the place of our abode , there to give account , how sincerely and soundly yee have judged , and that before me , whom your selves shall not denie to be the sincere Minister of God , in these Cases . Observe yet further , Cod. lib 1. tit 4. 2 3. tit . ● . 7.9.11 . That Iustinian , that Christian Emperor , in his Code , ●citeth many and sundry Lawes , made by former Emperors , concerning matters Ecclesiasticall : As namely , touching the Christian Faith , Baptisme , and Churches , Novel cons● . 5 7. & 42. 1● . and touching Heretickes , Apostatas , Iewes , and Infidels . And in his Authentickes , he maketh many new Constitutions . Concerning the Sacraments , in what places , by what persons , with what loudnesse of voyce they should be ministred : Novel . const. 123 1●1 . Novel . const . 5. & 131 3 67 79. & 5 123. 133. & 6. & 12● . Concerning Synods or Councells , when they shall be k●pt , what things shall be reformed in them , and what Canons of Councells shall stand in the same strength , with his Lawes . Concerning Priests , Deacons , and other Servitors in the Church , Hee limiteth their Age , Condition , Learning , and good report , before they be received to that Office , and their diligent , sober and chaste behaviour afterward : And concerning Bishops , how they shall be chosen , what manner of men they should be , both for life and doctrine , what causes they should meddle withall in their Consistor●s , what punishment they should undergoe for wrongfull excommunication , and other offences , &c. Novel . const. ●●3 And he saith further , That there is no kinde of thing exempted from the Prince his inquisition , who hath received from God , a common Regiment and Soveraignetie , over all men . And those things which concerne God , must , saith he , be preserved from corruption , by the Sa●red Prelat●s , and civill Magistrates : but most of all , by our Majestie , who use not to neglect any divine causes .

But proceede , Leg●m 〈◊〉 libr. 1. and goe on further to the times of Charles the great , who was Emperor of the West parts , about eight hundred yeares after CHRIST , and therein consider the Directions , Chapters , or Lawes made by him , which Ansegisus gathered together , within a few yeares after his death . For thereby shall you likewise clearely perceive , that Kings and Princes , even in those dayes , did meddle both with Persons , & causes Ecclesiasticall . I will here recite some of them unto you for your better and most full satisfaction in this point . ( viz. )

Cap. 1. That no man excommunicate in one place , should be taken into Communion in another place .

Cap 2. That when any Clearke is Ordered , his faith and l●fe be first exactly tried .

Cap. 3. That no strange Clearke be received or Ordered without Letters of Commendation , and licence from his owne Bishop .

Cap. 50. & 25. That no man be made Priest under thirtie yeares of age : neyther then at randome , but appointed and fastned to a certaine Cure .

Cap. 11. That no Bishop meddle with giving orders in another mans Diocesse .

Cap. 2● . Cap. 42. That onely the Bookes Canonicall be reade in the Church .

That the false name of Martyres , and uncertaine memories of Saints , be not observed .

Cap. 15. Cap. 82. That Sunday be kept , &c.

That the Pastors and Ministers rightly preach and teach the people committed to their charge .

Jbidem . That they suffer not any man under them , to propose to the people opinions of their owne devising , not agreeable to the holy Scriptures , but shall themselves teach profitable , and good doctrine , tending to life everlasting , and instruct others to doe the like . Cap. 22. And first of all , they shall teach all men generally to beleeve , the Father , the Sonne , and the Holy Ghost , to bee one Omnipotent , and Eternall , and invisible God , Creator of Heaven and Earth , and of all things in them ; And that there is but one God-head , Substance and Majestie , in the three Persons of the Father , the Sonne , and the Holy Ghost .

Item : They shall preach , E d●m cap. 82. That the Sonne of God tooke flesh by the working of the Holy Ghost , of the Virgin Mary , ( shee remayning alwayes a Virgin , ) for the salvation and reparation of makinde . That he suffered , was buried , the third day rose againe , and ascended into heaven , and that he shall come againe in Majestie to judge all men , &c.

Item : Ibidem . They shall diligently preach the Resurrection of the dead .

Item : They shall teach all men , with all diligence , Ibidem . for what offences they shall be condemned with the Divell , to paines everlasting : The Apostle telling us , That the workes of the flesh are manifest , which are , fornication , uncleannesse , wantonnesse , idolatrie , witchcraft , enmities , emulations , wrath , contentions , seditions , heresies , envie , murthers , drunkenesse , gluttonie , and such like : of which I tell you now , as I tould you before , ( saith the Apostle , ) That they which commit such things , shall not inherit the kingdome of God . These things therefore , which the great Preacher of the Church of God , recko●eth by name , let them be with all care prohibited ; remembring how terrible that saying is , That they which doe such things , shall not come into Gods kingdome .

Moreover , Admonish them , ( saith he , Ibidem . ) with all earnestnesse , concerning the love of God and of their neighbour , concerning Faith and Hope in God , Humilitie , Patience , Chastitie , Continencie , Liberalitie , Mercie , giving of Almes , acknowledging of their sinnes , And concerning forgiving of such as trespasse against them , according to the Lords Prayer : assuring them , that they which doe these things shall obtaine the kingdome of God . This we charge and enjoyne you , ( saith he , speaking to the Bishops and Cleargie men , ) with so much the more diligence , because we know , that in the latter times , shall come false teachers , as the Lord in the Gospell foretold , and his Apostle Paul , to Timothy , testifieth .

Caroli praefat. in Leges Franc. And againe he saith thus ; therefore , ( you Pastors of Christs Church , and Guides of his flocke , &c ) have we directed Commissioners unto you , who together with you , are , in our Name and by our Authoritie , to redresse those things which neede reformation : And to this end , have wee here annexed certaine briefe Chapters of Canonicall or Ecclesiasticall institution , such as we thought meetest . Let no man thinke or judge this our admonition to Godlinesse , to be presumpteous , whereby wee seek to reforme things amisse , to cut off things superfluous , and to bring men to that which is right , but let them rather receive it , with a charitable minde . For in the Booke of Kings wee reade , what paines that Godly King Iosias tooke , to bring the kingdome given him of God , to the true worship of the same God , by visiting , correcting , and instructing them : not that we compare our selves with his sanctitie , but that wee should alwayes imitate such examples of the Godly . Here wee see , the reason , why these Chapters or Lawes were made , and Commissioners appointed , and sent from the King , to put them in execution : and that also the examples of Iosiah , and such other Godly Kings of Israell and Iuda , are to be made patternes and precedents , and to be imitated by all Kings and Princes in the Christian Church , as touching the good care , endevour and paines , they are to take everie way they can , for the advancement of Gods Religion .

Legum Franc. lib. 2. cap. 1. After Charles the great , were Lodowicke and Lotharius , Emperors : which Emperors also spake thus to the Bishops and Magistrates of their Dominions . You have all , no doubt , eyther seene or heard , that our Fathers and Progenitors , after they were chosen by God to this place , made this their principall studie , how the honour of Gods holy Church , and the state of their kingdome might be decently kept : Cap. 2. And we for our parts , following their example , seeing it hath pleased God to appoint us , that we should have care of his Church , and of this kingdome , are very desirous , so long as we live , to labour earnestly for three speciall things , viz. to defend , exalt , & honour Gods holy Church , and his servants , in such sort , as is fit● to preserve Peace and to doe Iustice to all the people . And though the chiefe of this service consist in our person , Cap 9. yet by Gods and Mans Ordinance , it is so devided , that everie one of you , in his place and calling , hath a part of our charge : So that I should be your admonisher , and you all my coadjutors . Yea , not only did these Emperors extend their Authority to causes Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion , but had also the Supremacie over all Bishops , even over the Bishop of Rome himselfe , in their times : For so it appeareth by the submission , which Leo the fourth , Bishop of Rome , made to this Lodowicke the Westerne Emperor , in these words . If , ( saith he ) , we have done otherwise then well , Caus. 2 quast. 7. Cap. Nos si . and not dealt uprightly with those that are under us , we will amend all that is amisse , by the judgement of your highnesse : beseeching your hignesse , for the better triall of these surmises , to send such , as in the feare of God , may narrowly sift , not onely the matters informed , but all our doings great and small , aswell as if your Majestie were present : So that by lawfull examination all may be finished , and nothing left undiscussed , or undetermined . In all things , great and small , this Bishop of Rome , ( as you see , ) submitted himselfe to the Emperor , and to those Commissioners , which he wou'd please to send , for the sifting and examination of those matters layd to his charge , promising to amend all that was amisse in him , according to the Emperors owne judgement . Wherefore this was not a matter of modesty , or courtesie in the Pope , ( as Gratian most ungratiously would perswade , ) but a matter of bounden duetie , Ibidem . Cap. Petrus . and without all dissembling , and seriously meant and intended by him , in such manner and sort , as he by those his words plainely declareth . And consequently you now perceive verie fully , ( I hope , ) that for the space of eight hundred yeares and more after CHRIST , the Bishops of Rome were subject to the Emperors , and that the Christian Emperors also had Authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill , within their Empyres .

But here now doe some Papists take exception and answere , as touching Salomon , his displacing of Abiathar the high Priest , and putting Sadoc in his place : that Salomon did this , as he was a Prophet , not as hee was a King . But , first this is but a meere supposition and conceit , not found warranted in the Text. Yea , the untruth of it may appeare if you please but to reade the Chapter : For the offence which Abiathar , 1. King . 2.22.23.24 25.26.27.28 29 &c. the high Priest , had committed , was High Treason , in joyning with Adoniah , against King Salomon , for the kingdome : Ioah also was in the same Treason and Conspiracie . The King therefore caused Adoniah to be put to death : he caused also Ioab to be put to death : & touching Abiathar the high Priest , hee was also as worthy of death as the rest , although for some causes and respects , he was spared for that time . Thou art worthie of death , 1. King 2 26.27 . ( saith the King : ) but I will not this day kill thee , because thou barest the Arke of the Lord God before David my Father , and because thou hast suffered in all , wherein my Father hath beene afflicted . So Salomon cast out Abiathar from being Priest unto the Lord . And the King put Benaiah in the roome of Ioab over the Hoste : and the King set Sadoc the priest , Vers. 35. in the roome of Abiathar . In which words you see , that Salomon doing these things , is not styled or called by the name of a Prophet , but expressely , by the name of a King : thereby signifying and declaring , that what Salomon did touching the removing of Abiathar , and putting Sadoc in his place , he did it as a King , aswell as when he put Benaiah , in the place of Ioab . Secondly , you see , that the offence which Abiathar had committed , was treason , and that therefore he deserved to die , aswell as Adoniah , or Ioab , or any other of the conspirators : But yet for the reasons and respects before mentioned , hee would not , then , put him to death , though he had deserved it , but was content , in lieu thereof , for that time , to inflict this punishment upon him , to have him removed from his Priest-hood . Now to deale in cases of Treason , and to be a Iudge of matters concerning life and death , and to award execution of death , or in mercie to mitigate , and alter the severitie of that punishment , and in lieu thereof , to have a milder , or not so severe a punishment as death , to be inflicted , be things , not properly belonging to the office of a Prophet , but to the office of a King , they doe rightly and properly enough belong . And therefore what Salomon did herein , it is evident that he did it as a King , & not as a Prophet . And consequently it still remayneth firme and sure , even by this example of King Salomon , as also by other examples mentioned in my former Booke , ( whereto my adversarie is still pleased to answere nothing ) , that Kings , as Kings , have power to place Bishops , and againe to displace them , when there is cause , and to put others in their roome .

And as touching Moses , some Papists doe also answere , that he was a Priest , & the high Priest , Bellar. de verb. Dei lib 3. cap. 4● ( for so saith Bellarmine , ) and therefore , that Aaron performed that reverence , obedience , and subjection to him that hee did , as being high Priest . My Adversarie likewise saith the same , that God Almightie made Moses an high Priest , and citeth for proofe of it Num. 27. but there is no such thing written in that Chapter , nor in any other Chapter of the whole Bible beside . Deut. 33.5 . I reade , that Moses was as a King or Prince in Israell : but I no where reade , throughout the whole Booke of God , that God constituted Moses to be the high Priest : yea it is well knowne , that in Moses time , Aaron was the high Priest : what necessitie then was there for Moses also , to be an high Priest ? But that Moses was no Priest properly so called , much lesse an high Priest , is thus made manifest . For if Moses were a Priest , it must be eyther before the consecration of Aaron , or after : But after the consecration of Aaron and his Sonnes to the Priest-hood , it is cleare , that not Moses , but Aaron , and his Sonnes were the Priests , as having the Priest-hood appointed , and specially given unto them by Gods owne direction . Thou ( saith God to Moses , Numb. 3.10 . ) shalt appoint Aaron , and his Sonnes , to execute their Priests offices : and the stranger that commeth here , shall be slaine . So that none but Aaron , and those that were of his seede might execute the Priests office . For which cause , Moses neyther did , not durst execute the Priests office , Num. 16.46.47 but commanded Aaron to burne Incense , and to make an attonement for the people . Wherefore it is very apparant , that after the consecration of Aaron , Moses was not a Priest . And , that Moses was also no Priest before the consecration of Aaron , is likewise very evident : because before that time , the priest-hood was annexed to the birth-right , and did belong to the first borne , in whose place the Levites afterward came , Numb. 3.12.41.45 . Lyra in Num. 3.12 . Ibidem . and were appointed . So sai●h Lyra , reporting the received judgements of the best interpreters , that , Ante legem datam , ad Primogenitos pertinebat offerre sacrificia : Before the Law given , it belonged to the first-borne to offer sacrifices . Againe , hee saith expressely , that Levitae successerunt loco eorum . The Levites succeded in their place . And againe he saith : Lyra. in Gen. 14. Sacerdotium fuit annexum Primogeniturae , usque ad legem datam per Mosem : The Priest-hood was annexed to the first borne , untill the Law given by Moses . Now , of these two brothers , Moses & Aaron , ( the Sonnes of Amram , ) it is manifest , that , not Moses , but Aaron , was the eldest , and first borne . For we reade in Num. 33. Num. 33.39 . That Aaron was one hunded twentie and three yeares old , when he died : But Moses , outliving Aaron , Deut. 34.7 . was but one hundred and twentie yeares old when he died . So that Aaron , appeareth , questionlesse and undoubtedly , to be the elder brother and the first borne : and consequently even by the right of Primogeniture , did the Priest-hood belong to Aaron , and not to Moses . If any say , that the birthright was sometime taken from the eldest , by a speciall appointment of God , and given to the younger : it hath no place here . For no such especiall appointment from God can be shewed in this case : Yea Aaron was so farre from loosing this priviledge of his birthright , by any appointment from God , that cleane contrarywise , he had the Priest-hood famously confirmed to him , by God himselfe . Thou , ( saith God speaking to Aaron , ) and thy Sonnes with thee , Num. 18.7 . shall keepe your Priests office . In asmuch then as it is apparant , that Moses was no Priest , neyther before the consecration of Aaron , nor after , it must therefore be concluded , that he was no Priest at all , but was , as the Scripture calleth him , as a King , or a Prince . A second reason is this , viz. Deut. 33.5 . That Ioshua was appointed by God himselfe to succeede Moses in his place , and office : But it is certaine , that Ioshua , Deut. 31.14 . &c Num. 27 17.18 . Ios. 1.16.17.18 . his successor , was no Priest , but a civill Magistrate : even the chiefe ruler and commander under God , both of the Priests , & People of Israell in his times , as before appeareth : and therefore also must Moses be so supposed . But it is objected out of Psal. 99. That Moses and Aaron were among the Priests : Psal. 99.6 . doth this prove them therefore to be Priests , because they were among them ? Howbeit , the Hebrewe word , there used , is Cohanim , which signifieth aswell Princes , 2. Sam. 8.18 . ( as Priests , ) or any that be in high , eminent , and honourable place : as in 2. Sam. 8. The Sonnes of David , are said to be Cohanim , 1. Chron. 18.17 . that is , chiefe Rulers : For so it is also explained in 1. Chron. 18. Where it is said of the Sonnes of David , That they were chiefe or principall men , about the King . 2. Sam. 20. ●● . Againe it is said in 2. Sam. 20. that Ira , the Iairite was , Cohen le David , that is , a Prince , or chiefe Ruler about David : For it were absurd , and against the Law of God , that then was , to suppose Ira to bee a Priest , who was a meere stranger , and not of the Tribe of Levi. Although then Aaron was a Priest , yet when it is said of Moses and Aaron together , that they were Cohanim ; It may signifie verie well , that they were great Rulers , or men of high and eminent place in Israell , the one in respect of the civill Magistracie , and the other in respect of the Priest-hood . But for any to say , and argue thus : Moses was a Cohen , or reckoned amongst the Cohanim : Ergo hee was a Priest by his proper office and function , is a plaine non sequitur , and no better , then if you should likewise argue and say : Ira the Iairite was a Cohen , and the Sonnes of David , were also Cohanim : E●go these were Priests by their proper office and function .

If you further object , that Moses was of the Tribe of Levi , and Aarons brother : yet neyther doth that prove him therefore to be a Priest : For everie one that was of the Tribe of Levi , was not a Priest . Yea , even the Priests , and Levites , Numb. 3.6.7.8.9.10 . 1 Chro 6 48 49 Numb. 18.3 . & . were distinguished : For , Aaron and his Sonnes , were appointed to the office : But of the Levites it is said , they shall not come neere to the Altar , least they die . So that although the Levites , were of the Tribe of Levi , yet wee see they might not meddle with the Priests office , least they should die . And therefore also , Moses , though he were Aarons brother , and of the Tribe of Levi , yet was he not therefore a Priest , or to execute the Priests office . Neyther did he execute the office of a Levite , as the Levites used to doe , in wayting and tending upon the Priests , and as being in office inferior unto them and at their command . Yea , it is before shewed and apparant , that Moses , although he were of the Tribe of Levi , yet was hee so farre exalted and advanced , as that he was by place and office , as a King or Prince in Israell , and commanded both Priests and Levites , and not onely the Tribe of Levi , but all the other Tribes of Israell also , as Ioshua his successor likewise did .

Yet some to prove Moses to be a Priest , doe alledge , that he sacrificed , and for this , doe cite Exod. 24.5 . Exod. 24.5 . But the words of that Text , be not , that Moses did sacrifice , but That he sent young men to sacrifice : which were indeede the first borne of the children of Israell , to whom the Priesthood did then belong , it being a thing done , before the institution of the Leviticall priest-hood . Other some againe doe alledge , that Moses did consecrate and annoynt Aaron and his Sonnes , to the Priest-hood : And that therefore he was a Priest But this also followeth not , especially in the first erection of the Leviticall priest-hood . For though Moses were a Prince & a civill Magistrate ; yet when God gave him a direct and speciall commandement , to consecrate and annoynt Aaron , and his Sonnes , he was bound to doe it . And that he was expressely so commanded , is apparant by the Text it selfe , where God spake thus to Moses : Thou shalt bring Aaron and his Sonnes , unto the dore of the Tabernacle of the congregation , Exod. 40.12.13.14.15 16. and wash them with water : And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments , and shalt annoynt him , & sanctifie him , that he may minister unto me in the Priests office : Thou shalt also bring his Sonnes , and cloth them with garments , and shalt annoynt them , as thou didst annoynt their Father , that they may minister unto me in the Priests office : For this annoyntment shall be asigne , that the Priest-hood shall be everlasting unto them , throughout their generations . So Moses did according to all that the Lord commanded him : So did he . This sheweth then , that Moses was duetifull and obedient , in performing Gods commandement in this case : But it is no proofe , that therefore he was a Priest . For even a civill Magistrate , not onely may , but ought to consecrate , and annoynt men to the office of Priest-hood , if he be so required , and commanded from God himselfe , as Moses was : wherefore it still remayneth firme , that what reverence , subjection , and obedience , Aaron the high Priest performed to Moses , he did it to him , not as being any Priest , or high Priest , but to him as being as a Prince or King in Israell , that had the supreme commandement , and rule both of the high Priest and of the rest of the Priests and of the Levites , and of all the people within that Common-weale . So that now I trust you verie fully perceave , that Moses and Ioshua , and the good and Godly Kings of Israell and Iuda , had Authoritie , aswell over the high Priests , as all other Priests and Levites , & in causes also Ecclesiasticall , aswell as civill and Temporall . And that the Christian Emperors for the space of many hundred yeares after CHRIST , had likewise the Supremacie over all persons , and in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall , as Civill , within their Empyres and Dominions .

3. 〈◊〉 But my Adversarie objecteth , that famous Hosius Cordubensis , Athan Epist. ad solitarium vitâ agen●es . reproving the Arrian Emperor Constantius , wisheth him , ( as Athanasius testifieth ) , not to meddle in Ecclesiasticall matters . It is true , that Hosius Cordubensis , did , and had just cause to reprove Constantius , and to wish and advise him not to meddle in matters Ecclesiasticall , in such sort , as he did : he using , or rather abusing , all his authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall , to the mantaynance of the Arrians and arrianisme , against the true Christian , and Orthodoxe Bishops , and against the truth of the God-head of CHRIST . For , Athanasius in the same Epistle sheweth , that Paulinus , and other Bishops , being called before the Emperor , the Emperor commanded them to subscribe against Athanasius , Ibidem . and to communicate with the Arrians . They mervayled at this , and answering that the Ecclesiasticall Canons would not suffer them to doe so ; He replied : But , what I will , let that be taken for a Canon : The Bishops of Syria endure this speech of mine . Eyther therefore doe you , as I will you , or else goe you also into banishment . And when the Bishops held up their hands to God , and proposed their reasons , shewing him , That the kingdome was not his but Gods , of whom he received it , & that it was to be feared , least he that gave it him , would speedily take it from him : Setting also before his eyes the day of judgement , and advising him , Not to subvert Ecclesiasticall order , nor to bring the Arrian heresie into the Church of God : He , would neyther heare them , nor permitt them to speake , but grievously bending his browes for that they had spoken , and shaking his Sword at them , commanded them to be taken away . Yea , what crueltie , tyrannie , and persesecution was used , and raysed by Constantius , in the behalfe of the Arrians , against the Orthodoxe and right beleeving Christians , is further declared by the same Athanasius : shewing , Ibidem . that even Pagans were set to invade the Churches of the right and true Christians , and to beate the people with slaves and stones . The Bishops , Priests , & Monkes , were bound with chaines , and scourged with r●ds . The 〈◊〉 were haled by the haire to the judgement seate , The virgins were tosted by the fire , and whipt with prickles , others were banished , strangled , and trampled under feete to death , and their limmes and joyntes rent and torne a sunder , after they were dead . In somuch that Athanasius crieth out , saying : Who was not amazed at these things ? Who would yeeld them the name of heathen men , much lesse the name of Christian men ? Who would thinke them to have conditions of men , and not rather of beasts ? Yea , who perceived not the Arrians to be crueller then beasts ? The strangers standing by , yea the very Ethnickes , detested the Arrians , as Antichrists , and Butchers of men . Oh new-found heresie , ( saith he , ) which in villanies and impieties , hast put on the fulnesse of the Divell , how great soever it be . Againe , ( he saith , ) Whom hath not Constantius banished , Ibidem . that was accused by the Arrians ? When did he not give them both audience , and allowance ? Whom did he ever admitte to say any thing against them ? Or what did he not admitte , which they spake against others ? He ever doth that which the Arrians would have , and they againe say that which him liketh . And Athanasius saith yet further of him : That whensoever he called an Assembly , Iudgement , or Councell of Bishops , it was but for a shew : For he did neverthelesse what himselfe listed . What libertie for persuasion , or what place of advise , ( saith he , ) is there , when he that contradicteth , shall for his labour , loose eyther his life , or his countrey ? Why hath the Emperor gathered so great a number of Bishops , partly terrified with threats , partly inticed with promises , to condescend , that they will no longer communicate with Athanasius . This violent oppressing of Bishops in their Synods or Councells , & working them to his owne will , Hiler . lib. 1. contra Constant. doth S. Hilary also witnesse , saying thus unto him . Thou gatherest Synods or Councells , and when they be shut up together in one Citie , thou terrifiest them with threats , thou pinest them with hunger , thou lamest them with cold , thou depravest them with dissembling . Againe , ( hee saith , Ibidem . ) Oh thou wicked one , what a mockery dost thou make of the Church ? Onely dogges returne to their vomite : and thou compellest the Priests of CHRIST , to suppe up those things which they have spet forth , and commandest them in their confessions , to allow that which before they condemned . What Bishops hand hast thou left innocent ? What tongue hast not thou forced to falshood ? Whose heart hast not thou brought to the condemning of his former opinion ? Thou hast subjected all to thy will , yea to thy violence . Good cause therefore had Hosius Cordubensis to say as he did unto that Emperor , Meddle not ( Emperor ) with Ecclesiasticall matters , ( namely , in this sort , as thou dost ) for the maintaynance of arrianisme , & making thy will to stand for a law , &c. For if you will have these words , Ne te misceas Ecclesiasticis , Meddle not with Ecclesiasticall matters , to be taken absolutely and without restriction , to debarre Kings and Princes from all intermedling in Ecclesiasticall causes , any kind of way , such an exposition were not onely contrarie to the Acts of Constantine , the Lawes of Iustinian , the Chapters , and doings of Charles the Great , and the Historie of all the Christian Emperors , for the space of many hundred yeares after CHRIST , but it were also contrarie to the opinion and practise even of Athanasius himselfe , who is the reporter of those words of Hosius : For , it is evident , that Athanasius himselfe was never of that minde , to exclude Christian Kings and Princes from all intermedling in causes Ecclesiasticall : Yea , he was a cleare approver of that Authoritie in them : as appeareth by this , That when he was commanded to conferre with one Arius , concerning matters of Faith : He answered , Who is so farre out of his wits , that he dare refuse the commandement of the Prince ? Disput. Athan. cum A●●o Lao dicea hab●ta . Athanas a●●l 2. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 21. 22. lat. Yea the Emperors commandement made him to appeare before the Councell of Tyrus , and finding that Councell not to be indifferent , but partially affected , he and the rest of the Orthodoxe Bishops that to●ke part with him , appealed to the Emperor himselfe . He also in person fled to the Emperor , desiring him to send for the Bishops of the Councell of Tyrus , and to examine their doings , which the Christian Emperor did accordingly . So that it is manifest , that Athanasius did approve of the Authoritie of the Emperors in Ecclesiasticall causes , albeit hee would not have them to use their authoritie cruelly or tyrannically , to serve their owne violent wills and pleasures , nor thereby to doe any thing whatsoever against CHRIST , and his Religion , as that Arrian Emperor Constantius did . But when all this is granted , it maketh nothing against those Christian Emperors , Kings and Princes , which in good sort use their authoritie , not against CHRIST , ( as he did , ) but for CHRIST , his trueth , and Religion . It is true , that the same Hosius Bishop of Corduba , spake further unto the Emperor in this sort : Athanas . ad so●tariam vitam agentes . God , ( saith he ) , hath committed the Empyre to thee , to us the things of the Church . And as he that envieth thy Empyre , contradicteth the ordinance of God : So take thou heede , least drawing unto thy selfe , the things of the Church , thou be guiltie of great sinne . It is written : give unto Caesar , that which is Caesars : and unto God , that which is Gods . It is therefore neyther lawfull for us , ( that be Bishops ) , to hold a kingdom on earth , neyther host thou power ( ô Prince ) over sacrifices , and sacred things . Howbeit , these wordes doe onely distinguish , and put a difference betweene the office and function of Priests , and the office and function of Kings and Princes : shewing , that the one may not incroch , or intrude upon that , which r●ghtly , and properly belongeth unto the other , but that every one should keepe himselfe within the bounds of his owne proper calling & office . And so teach the Protestants also : and therefore if any King or Prince usurpe , or intrude upon that which is proper and peculiar unto the Priests office , ( as King Vzziah entred into the Temple , to burne Incense , 2 Chron. 26.16.17.18 . which pertayned to the Priests office onely , ) they utterly dislike and condemne it . Now then let all this be granted , that Kings and Princes may not doe any thing that is proper and peculiar to the Priests office , nor may meddle in Ecclesiasticall causes , after a cruell and tyrannicall maner , nor use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes , for the maintenance of Arrianisme or of any other heresie or error , nor doe any thing against God , or his truth and Religion : Yet what doth all this , or any of this , make against those Godly and Christian Kings , and Princes , that extend and use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes , in a good sort , and for God , and for the maintenance of his trueth , Religion , and ordinances ? It maketh , as you see , just nothing at all against them .

But it is further objected , that S. Ambrose , when Valentinian the Emperor would have had a Church in Millan for the Arrian heretickes , answereth thus . Neyther is it lawfull for me to yeelde unto it , Ambros . libr. 5. epist. 3● . nor expedient for you ô Emperor , to take it . The house of a private man , you cannot by right invade : Doe you thinke then , you may take away the house of God ? It is alledged , that the Emperor may doe what he list : But I answere , burthen not your selfe , ô Emperor , to thinke that you have any Imperiall right over those things , that be Gods . Exalt not your selfe so high , but if you will raigne long , be subject unto God . For it is written : give unto Caesar that which is Caesars , and to God , that which is Gods , Palaces belong to Emperors , Churches to Priests . Epist. ●● . The Church is Gods , it ought not to be yeelded by me to Caesar . The Temple of God cannot he Caesars right . I cannot deliver that to Heretickes , which I receaved to keepe on Gods behalfe . I would to God , Epist. 32. it were apparant to me , that my Church should not be delivered to the Arrians , I would willingly offer my selfe to the judgement of your highnesse . I would to God that it were decreed , Orat. on● Auxen● . that no Arrian should trouble my Churches , and of my person pronounce , what sentence you will : With my consent , I will never forgoe my right if I be compelled , I have no way to resist : I can sorrow , I can weepe , I can sigh : Teares are my weapons : Priests have onely these defences : By other meanes I neyther ought , nor may resist . To flie and forsake my Church I use not , least any should thinke it done , to avoyde some sorer punishment . Ibidem Epist. 33. If my goods be sought for , take them : If my bodie , I will be readie : Will you put mee in Irons , or lead mee to death ? You shall doe me a pleasure , I will not guard my selfe with multitudes of people , but I will gladly he sacrificed for the Altars of God . All this maketh against the favourers and maintayners of Arrianisme , but nothing against that authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters , which Kings and Princes have to commande , for God , and for the good of his Church , and the advancement of his Religion against Arrianisme , and against all other heresies , and errors whatsoever . My Adversarie therefore objecteth further , that S. Ambrose saith : Ambros Epist. Lib. 5 cont. Aux . That a good Emperor is within the Church , and not above the Church . Indeede , seeing the Church is the mother of Christian Emperors , aswell as of other Christians , it becommeth a Christian Emperor , as a good Child , and Sonne of such a mother , to account ●t his greatest honour , to submit himselfe , as he ought , to the word , rules , and ordinances , which God hath set in the same his Church , and not to exa●t himselfe aboue them , as Valentinian did , when he was so forward for the advancement of Arrianisme & Arrian assemblies , against the true Church of God , and the Orthodoxe Bishops therein . For , that , by the Church , here , S. Ambrose meaneth , the things of God in the Church , appeareth not only by that Text , which he citeth , of , Give unto Caesar , the things that be Caesars , and unto God , the things that be Gods , but by those other words of his likewise , where he saith plainely : Ambr. lib. 5. c. 33 Ea quae divina sant imperatoriae potestati non esse subjecta : The things that be divine , be not subject to the Emperors power . And yet the same S. Ambrose affirmeth nevertheles , That the Emperor had power over the persons of all men within his Empyre : Ambros de obien Theo●osij . Here then you must learne of S. Ambrose , to distinguish betweene the things in the Church , and the persons in the Church : For over all the persons , he confesseth , That the Emperor had power : but , not over the Divine things therein . And this also doe the Protestants hold , that a Christian King hath power over the persons of all Bishops , Pastors , and Ecclesiasticall Ministers in the Church , within his owne Dominions : But not over the Divine things therein , as namely , not over Gods Word , his Religion , Sacraments , and other his Institutions and Ordinances in his Church .

Yet againe it is objected by some , that S. Ambrose reproved the Emperor Valentinian the younger , for that he would take upon him to be Iudge in a matter of Faith , & cause Ecclesiasticall : but the reason of it must be knowne . For Valentinian a young Prince , not yet baptized , and a novice in the mysteries of Religion , would upon the perswasion and counsell of his Mother Iustina , an Arrian , needes have Ambrose to come , and dispute with Auxentius the Arrian , in his Palace or Consistorie before him : Ambr ● . 5. Orat. co●r Auxent . & Epist. 53. and he would be the Iudge , whether of their two Religions were truest . Whereunto Ambrose made answere , and gave it in writing to Valentinian , shewing him , amongst other things , That he was young in yeares , a novice in Faith , not yet baptised , and that he was as yet rather to learne , then to judge of Bishops : That the Palace was no fit place for a Priest to dispute in , where the hearers should be Iewes , or Gentiles , and so scoffe at CHRIST : and the Emperor himselfe partiall , as appeared by the law published before that time , against the trueth . Ibidem . Auxentius , ( saith Ambrose , ) being driven to his shifts , hath recourse to the craft of his forefathers , seeking to procure us envie by the Emperors name , saying : That he ought to be Iudge , though he be yong , though he be not yet baptised , though he be ignorant of the holy Scriptures : and that in the Consistorie . Jdem libr. 5. Epist 32. And to the young Emperor himselfe , he spake thus : Your Father , a man of riper yeares , said , it is not for me to judge betweene Bishops : Doth then your clemencie at these yeares say , I ought to judge ? He a man baptised in CHRIST , thought himselfe unable for the weight of so great a judgement . Doth then your Clemencie that hath not yet attayned to the Sacrament of Baptisme , challenge to judge of matters of Faith , when as yet you know not the mysteries of Faith , & c ? In these words you see the reason , why S. Ambrose reproved Valentinian , & disliked , that he should challenge , or take upon him to judge in a matter of Faith , namely not for that he had not authoritie to deale in matters of Faith , and causes Ecclesiasticall , but in respect of other defects in him ( viz. ) For that he was so young , and as yet unbaptised , a Novice in the Faith , and ignorant in the Scriptures , &c. But then you will say , that even Valentinian the elder , the Father of this young Valentinian , did himselfe refuse , and dislike to judge in the same matter . But S. Ambrose likewise sheweth you the reason of it , namely because Ambr. lib. 5. Epist. 32. inhabilem se , &c. He then thought himselfe unable to judge in so weightie a cause , The great question being , whether CHRIST was of the same substance with the Father , yea , or no. Concerning which question , when Valentinian was afterward better instructed : then did he judge of the trueth of it , and thereupon by his Imperiall Authoritie , commanded it as a trueth to be preached : as appeareth evidently by the Epistle , which he , and Valens , and Gratian , ( being then the Emperors , Theodoret. lib. 4. cap. 7.8 . ) wrote to the Bishops of Asia , Phrygia , Cyrophrygia , and Placatia : wherein the Emperors write thus unto them : After great disputation had to and fro , in a full Councell held at Illyria about our Saviour , those blessed Bishops have demonstratively proved , That there is a consubstantiall Trinitie , The Father , the Sonne , and the holy Ghost : from which they would not depart one jott , but gave due reverence unto the Religion of the Almighty God : And we also , ( say they , ) by our Authoritie , have commanded the same to be preached . So that although Valentinian , at the first , & for a while , untill he were better instructed , would not . Yet afterward upon better instruction receaved , you see , that he did take upon him , to judge , that is , to discerne , of the trueth of that controversie , and by his Imperiall authoritie , aswell as the other Emperors , commanded it as a truth to be preached . Theodosius also , that Christian Emperor , ( whom S. Ambrose himselfe so much commendeth , ) judged of the truth of the same controversie , betweene the Homousians , and the Arrians : determining and appointing by a solemne Edict , which of them should be accounted Catholickes , Socrat. lib. 5. cap. 10. and which Heretickes . For seeing the divisions and dissentions that were then in the Church , he willed everie sect to put their Faith in writing . There was a day prefixed : The Bishops being called , met at the Emperors Palace . There came thither Nectarius , and Agelius for the Homousians , Demophilus for the Arrians , Eunomius himselfe for his followers ; and Eleusius for the Macedonians . When they were come , the Prince admitted them to his presence : And taking the paper of each mans opinion , earnestly besought GOD , to helpe him in choosing the truth . Then reading their Confessions , hee rejected all the rest , as deviding and severing the Sacred TRINITIE , and tore them in pieces , and onely approved and embraced the Homousian faith , and therewithall he made a law , Cod lib. 1. tit. 1 de summa Trinitate , & fide catholica S. cunctos that such as followed the Faith of the Homousians , that is , of such as beleeved CHRIST , to be of the same substance with the Father , and that beleeved one God-head of the Father , Sonne , and holy Ghost , of equall Majestie in the sacred Trinitie , should be held and taken for Christian Catholickes , and the rest to be held infamous Heretickes . So likewise the Emperor Gratian , the Sonne of Valentinian , after that the Empyre came intirely to his hands , judged and condemned the Arrian heresie , Theodor. li. 5. c. 2 and thereupon commanded the Preachers of that blasphemie , as wilde and savage beasts , to be driven from their Churches , and the good Pastors to be restored to their Churches againe : And the execution of this law he committed to Sapores , a famous Captaine of that time . Evagrius libr. 1. cap. 12. In like maner , did Theodosius the younger also , judge and decree against the Nestorian heresie , that they which followed the wicked faith of Nestorius , or cleaved to his unlawfull doctrine , if they were Bishops , or Cleargie men , they should be cast out of their Churches , and if they were Lay-men , they should be excommunicate . Sozomen . libr. 4 cap. 16. And doth not moreover Sozomen record in a certaine case , That the Emperor commanded , That ten Bishops of the East , and ten Bishops of the West , chosen by the Councell , should repaire to the Court , and open unto him the Decrees of the Councell , that he might further determine and conclude what were best to be done . Yea S. Augustine himselfe , Aug. cont . epist. Pavin . lib 1 c. 7. expostulating this matter with the Donatists , saith thus unto them : Is it not lawfull for the Emperor to give sentence in a matter of religion ? Why then went your messengers to the Emperor ? Why made they him judge of their cause ? By these premisses then it is very apparant , That although none may be judge of Faith , and Religion , if you speake and meane , of an absolute , infallible , soveraigne , and supreme Iudge , but God onely : Yet if you take judging for discerning , ( as often , and usually it is , ) then not onely Christian Kings , and Emperors , but even all Lay Christians also whatsoever , by the tenor of the Scriptures , may and ought , so farre forth as they shall be able , to judge , that is , to discerne , of the doctrines of men , whether they be true or false : as is more at large declared in the Preface of my former Booke . Shall any then be so absurd , or unreasonable , as to denie this right of judging , that is , of discerning of the trueth in the doctrines of men , to Christian Emperors , Kings and Princes , which is allowed to farre inferior and meaner persons ? Yea , these , chiefly and principally , in regard of their high places and callings are to be allowed this right .

Whereas therefore my Adversarie saith , that Bishops , and Cleargie men , should be Iudges for determining of Dogmaticall questions , and Controversies of Faith and Religion , and that Christian Emperors , Kings , and Princes , are to be guided , directed , taught , and instructed by them : all this is granted : Yet , withall , let Christian Kings and Princes have also , herein , their dues , and that right which to them belongeth : Which is , to search the Scriptures , thereby to trie & examine , whether the doctrine of their Teachers , be true or false : For , Act 17.12 . Basil . 〈◊〉 . d●f . 77. pag. 432. it behoueth the Hearers , ( saith S. Basill , ) that be instructed in the Scriptures , to trie those things which are spoken by their Teachers , and receiving that which agreeth with the Scriptures , to reject the contrarie ; And so S. Augustine likewise , Aug in Iohan. tract 46. Sua vero si velint docere , nolite audire , nolite facere , That if they will teach their owne devises , you must neyther heare them , nor doe as they teach you . Although then , Bishops , Pastors , & Ministers Ecclesiasticall , are first of all to be consulted with , & to ●udge of matters of Faith , & controversies in Religion , y●● are they not absolute and infallible Iudges , nor absolute and infallible Teachers , or directors , but are themselves limited , and to be directed , in all their Iudgements , Doctrines , and Decrees , by that onely absolute and infallible rule of trueth , the sacred and Canonicall Scriptures . So that if they shall judge , direct , decree , or teach any thing not according to the Divine Scriptures , but contrarie thereunto , ( as the Arrian Bishops in time past did , and as the Popish Bishops and Teachers , in these dayes doe , ) all that is ●ustly worthy to be refused , by all Christian Emperors , Kings , and Princes , as is verie evident , both by all good reason , and by that which is before delivered .

Now then although , these two points be granted to my Adversarie , ( viz. ) That the Regall and Priestly offices be things distinct : and that those that beare Regall Authoritie , be also subordinate and subject , to that Authoritie , message , and Ministerie , which God hath committed to Bishops , Pastors , and Ministers Ecclesiasticall : yet when there is further , a third point appearing , which he must acknowledge , namely , that Bishops , Pastors , and Ecclesiasticall Ministers , be also subordinate and subject to the sword , and Authoritie of Christian Kings , and Princes , and that in matters Ecclesiasticall , and concerning Religion , aswell as in matters Civill and Temporall , ( as is before at large declared . ) What benefite or advantage doth he get thereby : Yea , is not his cause thereby for ever overthrowen ?

Thus farre then you see , that the plea which hee hath put in for a demurrer , or stay of mens judgements , is altogether insufficient for that purpose : and therefore for any matter yet shewed by him , or appearing to the contrarie , all mens judgements , may and ought to proceede , and to be given against him and his cause , unlesse in that which followeth , he can shew better matter , then as yet he hath shewed . Let us therefore now see , whether hee hath any better matter in that , then he hath found in those his two points before mentioned . For those his two former points appeare not worth a poynt , nor of any value , or validitie at all against the Kings SUPREMACIE .

4 First , it is true , that I alledged that Text of 1. Pet. 2.13 . To prove the KINGS SUPREMACIE over all persons , aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill , within his owne Dominions . And what can my Adversary say against it ? Doth not S. Peter expressely require of all Christians that live within the Dominion of any King , 1. Pet. 2.13 . That they should submit themselves unto him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , unto the Chiefe , or Supreme person over them ? Hee cavilleth at my argument , because it is thus propounded interrogatively , and not affirmatively . A verie childish exception , if it be not more then childish : For , is he so sillie and ignorant , that he knoweth not , that an interrogative speech , doth sometime carrie the force of the greater , & more Emphaticall affirmation ? And yet if hee had but read , and remembred the verie next words following that interrogative , he might have found a redditive , and a direct affirmative answere thereunto . For the words next and immediately following , bee these : It is evident , ( say I , ) that he calleth the King Chiefe , or Supreme , not onely in respect of Dukes , Earles , or other Temporall governors , ( as the Rhemists would have it ) , but in respect of all the rest likewise , were they Bishops , Pastors , Cleargie men , or whosoever . For he writeth that his Epistle , not to Heathens , but to Christians : and amongst them , not to the Lay people onely , but to such also as were Presbiters , and did 〈…〉 , 1. Pet 112.34 5. 〈…〉 5 1.2 . doe the office of Bishops amongst them , requiring even them , aswell as the rest , to yeelde their subjection & submission unto him . Now then seeing this direct affirmative in my Booke , ( pag. 1. of that Chapter , ) and that the words of S. Peter , in the Text it selfe , be also direct affirmative , 1. Pet. 2.13 . ( for these be his words , Be yee therefore subject , &c. ) What doth he , or can he answere thereunto ? He sti●l cavilleth , at the words of the Text , playing with them ad libitum , and maketh the reason of it to be , because he is a Lawyer : as though it were lawfull , or allowable for a man of that profession , to be a wrangling Lawyer : or as though , because he is a Lawyer , it were as free for him , to cavill , and sport himselfe , with Divine Texts and evidences , as with humane : or as though he had never heard , nor learned , That Non est bonum ludere cum Sanctis . Seeing I am a Lawyer , ( saith he , ) let me article and make my argument , or plea upon the Text : And then hee goeth on , and saith , That these wordes in the Text , ( Be subject , ) doe no more specifie the Christians , then the Heathens , nor any more the Subjects , then the Princes . Be not these strange asseverations ? For when S. Peter writeth that his Epistle , not to Heathens , 1. Pet. 1.2 3.4 . &c. but to Christians , dispersed through Pontus , Galatia , Capadocia , Asia , and Bithinia , and saith thus unto them , Subjecti estote , Be yee subject : Can these words , thus directly , and purposely spoken to Christians , no more specifie or intend Christians , then Heathens ? Where were the mans wits , I mervaile , when he wrot thus absurdly ? Yea , himselfe afterward confuteth himselfe : For mentioning both this Text of S. Peter , and that also of S. Paul in Rom. 13.1 . &c. He saith , that in these two cited places , both these Apostles Exhort to obedience : and the reason , ( saith he , ) why the King is mentioned , Is , because in those dayes , Christians were , by the malice of their Adversaries , accused of sedition , and rebellion against Princes . Doth hee not by these wordes make it verie evident , that S. Peter , in saying , Subjecti estote , Be yee subject , distinguisheth the Christians , to whom he writeth , from the rest that were their adversaries , and were heathens , and Infidels ? But why doth he say againe ; that these words , Subjecti estote , Be yee subject , doe no more specifie Subjects , then Princes ? For is it not a senselesse thing , to say , or suppose , when men are by expresse wordes exhorted , to be subject to their Kings and Princes , that these wordes should require no more of Subjects , then they doe of Kings and Princes ? Yea , when he requireth Christians to be subject to everie humane creature , whether it be to the king , as being the chiefe , or , unto governours , as unto them that are sent of him , 1. Pet. 2.13.14 . for the punishment of evill doers , and for the prayse of them that doe well : doth he not , by this his distribution of the humane creature , apparantly shew , that , he meaneth thereby the King , as Chiefe or Supreme , and the other Temporall Magistrates , Rulers , or Governors , that be appointed or allowed under him ? Little reason therefore had my Adversarie to say , That by every humane creature , in the Text , ( thus distinguished by the Apostle himselfe , into the King , as Chiefe or Supreme , and into others , that be Rulers , or Governors , under him , ) The King is no more compresed , then the Pope : For , you see , that the King is directly comprised and intended , yea expressely named , and so is not the Pope . And this is so evident , that even the Rhemists themselves , doe likewise so teach and expound it , namely , That by everie humane creature in this Text , S. Peter meaneth the Temporall Magistrates . Rhem. Annot. 5. in 1. Pet 2.13 . Howbeit , hee calleth not Kings and Princes , and other inferior Magistrates under them , an humane creation , as though they were not also a Divine creation , and of Gods institution , ( For there is no power but of God . Rom. 13.1 . 2. Ioh. 19.11 . ) But they are called an humane creation , in respect , that the externall forme and maner of their creation , is usually such , as that God hath beene pleased to allow men to ordayne and appoint it , for the use , behoofe and benefit of men . For touching Kings and Princes , some are so by election ; and some by birth and discent of inheritance : and concerning inferior Magistrates , under Kings & Princes , they be also created and made , some after one sort , and some after another . But what forme of creation soever they receave from men , yet when they are once so appointed , 1. Pet. 2.13 . they are then to be obeyed , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Propter Dominum , for the Lords sake , ( as S. Peter here teacheth , ) to shew that they be also Gods ordinance , and of his approbation . And therefore doth S Paul likewise teach ; That Christians must be subject to them , Rom 13.1.2.3.4 5. not onely for feare , or for wrath , but also for conscience sake , as being also Gods owne institution . But my Adversarie at last confesseth , that this part of the Text , Whether it be to the King , as excelling , or to Rulers as sent by him , with a reference to the precedent wordes , doth establish in the King , the Regall and Temporall Supremacie . And this is enough if he would be constant , and stand to his wordes . For no other Supremacie , or Authoritie , in matters Ecclesiasticall , doth the King clayme , but that which is Regall and Temporall . In asmuch as he claymeth not to punish any offendors , in Ecclesiasticall causes , otherwise then by finings , imprisonments , and such like Civill , and Temporall penalties , and punishments , which belong to that his Regall and Temporall Authoritie to inflict : and in asmuch as hee also meddleth not with preaching the Word , Ministring the Sacraments , Excommunication , Absolution , or whatsoever else that is proper and peculiar to the Bishops or Ministers function . And seeing he is so equall and just , as to denie Cleargie men , nothing that of right belongeth to them : Why should any Cleargie men , or any men whosoever , be so unequall and unjust , as to denie unto him any thing that is his proper due , as namely a Regall and Temporall Power and Authoritie , to be extended , and used against offendors , in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as in Civill ? For what ? Shall offendors in causes Ecclesiasticall , that be and persist wilfull , obstinate , and perpetuall contemners of al Divine admonitions , Church censures and Christian courses , be held , not fit to be restrained , or punished Civilly , or by Temporall Authoritie ? Would not such a libertie , and impunitie , prove extremely and intollerably mischievous ? And yet must such a mischiefe be endured , or at least hazarded , where Ecclesiasticall Authoritie is contemned and set at naught , and that withall such contemners shal neverthelesse not be permitted to be restrained by the Civill Sword , and Authoritie of Kings and Princes . This argument I alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke , ( pag. 6. ) but my Adversarie is of such an excellent skill , as that he can tell how to passe it over , as he doth many things more , without making any answere thereunto . Wherefore that his evasion and distinction , ( which is likewise the common evasion and distinction of all the Papists , ) viz , that Kings and Princes , are to be obeyed , when they command for matters Civill and Temporall , but not when they command for God , and his Religion , or in matters Ecclesiasticall , 〈◊〉 appeareth to be a most false & most idle distinction , being both in my former Booke , and in this also , ( much more largely , ) reselled and confuted . Yea , it is so grosse and absurd , as that at the very first hearing of it , in this sort produced , it sheweth it selfe to be verie senselesse , and ridiculous . For , shall the King be obeyed , when he commandeth for men ? and shall he not be obeyed , when he commandeth for God ? Is not this to preferre Men before God , Earth before Heaven , the Bodie before the Soule , the Common-weale before the Church , and things worldly , terrestriall , and externall , before things divine , celestiall , and eternall ? Rhem. Annot 6 in 1. Pet. 2.13 . As for that which the Rhemis●s say , That this Text giveth no more to any Prince , then may and ought to be done and granted to an heathen Magistrate : it maketh not for them , but against them . For if they will grant no more to Christian Kings and Princes , then is due to heathen Princes , ye● , even so much sufficeth , as touching this point , if it be well 〈◊〉 : Because , it is verie cleare , that even heathen Kings and Princes , are and ought to bee obeyed , Ezra . 1.1.2.3 . &c. when they command for God , his service & Religion : as is evident , by Cyrus , King of Persia , who though he were an heathen King , gave commandement to build the Temple in Ierusalem , Ez a. 61.23 . &c. and was therein obeyed : Darius also , another heathen King , gave commandement for the continuing of the building of that Temple , and for the Sacrifices to be offered in it , Ezra . 7.12.13 . &c. and was therein obeyed : In like sort , did Artaxerxes , though an heathen King , give commandement for the reforming of the Church according to the law of God , Dan. 3.29 . by the Ministerie of Ezra , that learned Scribe . Nebuchadnezzar also , though an heathen King , gave a commandement , and made a decree , that none should blaspheme the GOD of Shadrach , Dan 6 25 26. Meshach , and Abednego . King Darius likewise gave commandement & made a decree , that in all the Dominions of his kingdom , men should tremble & feare before the Lord God of Daniel , whose God was the true God . Some heathen Emperors also gave commandment , that men should cease from persecuting the Christians , & that Christians should have the free exercise of their Religion , build Oratories , & places for their meetings and assemblies , Euseb li 7. cap. ●8 cap 12. & quietly possesse them , for the service of their God . Were not these & such like commandments , good , lawful , & commendable , Euseb. lib. 9 cap. 16. cap. 8. lat. though given by heathen Emperors , and in causes Ecclesiasticall , and concerning Religion ? And were they not meete to be obeyed ? If then heathen Kings , and Princes , may , ( as is manifest , ) lawfully and laudably command for God , his worship , service , and Religion , and are therein dutifully to be obeyed ; By what right or reason , can it bee denied to Christian Kings , and Princes , to have ( at least ) the like authoritie , to command in matters Ecclesiasticall , for God , his service , and Religion ? For , shall Christian Kings and Princes , be in worse case then heathen Kings ? Or shall they fare the worse , or have the lesse Regall power , and authority , because of their Religion of Christianitie ? God forbid . This argument I likewise alledged in the first Chapter of my former Booke ( pag. 7. ) whereto my Adversarie againe , like a wise man still knoweth , how to answere nothing . And yet he saith , he will propose my defused argument in a succinct forme , the most for my advantage●● : But , I neyther desire , nor looke for any advantage at his hands : Let him make his owne Arguments the best hee can for his owne advantage : As for mine , I would not have him to frame them , unlesse hee would doe it more truely . Hee would indeede , make my Argument defused , or rather confused , by his confused maner of answering ; jumbling things together which I had Methodically , and expressely distinguished . For , first , my purpose was to prove his Majesties SUPREMACIE , over all persons , within his owne Dominions : and then afterward in the second place , to shew his Authoritie in respect of Causes Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill . In the first Section of that Chapter , pag. 1.2.3.4 . I handle the first point , concerning his Supremacie , in respect of persons : and in the second section pag. 5. and not before , it is , that I begin to handle his Authoritie in respect of causes . This Text then of S. Peter , being alledged , ( as it is ) , in the first section , and pag. 1. was by me produced , to prove onely his Majesties Supremacie over all persons , aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill , within his owne Dominions , and not for any such end , or purpose , as thereby to prove his Majesties Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill , as he misconceaveth . But sith he will needes have it so used , I am well content with it : because that Text , doth indeede serve verie sufficiently , to prove both those purposes . For the first , the argument is verie apparant , and may be framed thus . If all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall , as Civill , are to be subject to their King , as to the Chiefe or Supreme within his owne Dominions , then hath their King a cleare Supremacie over them all : But all persons aswell Ecclesiasticall , as Civill , are to be subject to their King , as to the Chiefe or Supreme , within his owne Dominions , ( for so S. Peter directly teacheth : ) Ergo their King hath a cleare Supremacie over them all . And for the second point , the argument is also very open , and evident : For the King is not called the Chiefe , or Supreme , in respect onely of the excellencie of his person above all his subjects , but in respect also of his Authoritie , Rule , and Governement , he hath over them : yea in this respect specially , he is so called , as appeareth by this , That S. Peter distribu●es the humane creature , he there speaketh of , that is , the Temporall Magistrates , Rulers , or Governors , into the King , as being the Chiefe or Supreme Governor , and into other that be governors under him . So that here we finde , the Kings Title of Supreme Governor , very manifestly proved , and directly ratified , and confirmed . And that his governement , and authoritie extendeth also to all manner of causes , ( and consequently to causes Ecclesiasticall aswell , as Civill , ) it is thus also made verie apparant , out of this Text. For S. Peter here sheweth , 1. Pet 2.13.14 . that the King as the Supreme Governor , and the other that bee inferior governors under him , be all constituted to this end , ( viz. ) For the punishment of evill doers , and for the prayse of them that doe well . Now be there not , or may there not be , evill doers , aswell in the Church , as in the Commonweale , and transgressors , and offendors , aswell in matters Ecclesiasticall , as Civill and Temporall ? Shall not then aswell the one sort of these offendors , as the other , be held punishable , by the Kings Civill , and Temporall Sword , especially when they grow and continue obstinate , wilfull , perverse , and unruly , and will not otherwise be reclaymed ? The Text maketh no such difference , or distinction , ( as the Papists fondly doe , ) betweene offendors in causes Ecclesiasticall , and offendors in causes Civill , and Temporall , but generally or indefinitely , it would have Evill doers , of what sort soever , without any distinction , exception , or restriction , to bee punished by this Civill sword . And ubi lex non distinguit , ibi nec nos distinguere debemus . The Argument then for the Kings Authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as in Civill , out of this Text of S. Peter , is and may be framed thus . Whosoever hath authoritie from God , to punish Evill doers , by the Civill sword , without any distinction , restriction , or exception of causes ; hath Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill . But the King hath Authoritie from God , to punish ●●●-●oers by the Ciuill sword , without any distinction , restriction , or exception of causes : Ergo , The King hath Authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill . The Mato● is evident in it selfe . The Miror is proved , and apparant by the Text : and therefore the conclusion must be granted .

My Adversarie neverthelesse still urgeth , that as touching spirituall and Ecclesiasticall causes and matters , and concerning Religion , obedience must be performed to the Supreme Pastor , and head of the Church . And who denieth this ? Yea , this is granted unto him , so hee take it rightly : For not the Pope , ( as he and other Papists strangely suppose ) but CHRIST IESVS onely , is the Chiefe Sheepheard , or Supreme Pastor , and head of the Church , as hath beene often declared , and as is apparant . As for that he saith , That the Militant Church , must have some visible head in Earth to rule and governe it : 1. Pet. 5.4 Hebr. 13 20. Colos. 1.18 . Ephes. 1 . 2●.23 . He onely saith it , but doth not prove it : and it is indeede , but an humane devise and conceit , and such as is before confuted in my former Booke , pag. 95.96 97. whereunto he full maketh no answere . And yet it is there shewed , that the Companie , both Militant , and Triumphant , make but one body , and one Church , unto CHRIST IESVS , whereof he is the Head : and that though in his bodily presence and humanitie , hee be in heaven ; yet by his Deitie , and power of his Spirit , and word , he is in Earth with his Church , and can tell , how to rule , governe , comfort , confirme , guide , and direct it , and to give all giftes and graces requisite , and to doe and performe all the offices of an Head unto it , much better then the Pope of Rome , or any man mortall whosoever : Yea , himselfe confuteth himselfe , when he saith , that in these words of CHRIST ; Reddite quaesunt Caesaris , Caesari : & quaesunt Dei , Deo : By this word ; Caesari , is understood , ( saith he , ) The Supreme Governor in Temporall affaires : and by the word Deo , the Supreme Governor in Spirituall affaires . For , thereupon it followeth , that then is not the Pope of Rome , the supreme governor in those spirituall and Ecclesiasticall affaires , unlesse he will say , that the Pope is God . But whereas he maketh Caesar , or the Emperor , to be the supreme Governour in Temporall affayres onely , as though he had no Authoritie in spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall matters also , therein is still his error ; because it is before most manifestly proved , that even the heathen Emperors , ( and much more those that were Christian Emperors ) lawfully might , & did command for God his service , & Religion ; & dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill & Temporall . Yea , Rex est persona mixta , as our law also calleth him , in respect of that his interest & Authoritie in causes both Ecclesiasticall , & Civill . For which cause likewise , amongst Divines , he is said to bee , Custos utriusque Tabulae .

As for that his calumnious speech , against Luther and Calvine , which he here also inserteth , Luther tom. 1. in Genes. cap. 9. & tom 3. Ann●t . in Deut. 6. fol. 40. & tom 2. responed Ambr Catherinum fol 150. & 152. &c. Calvin Inst. l b. 4 cap 20. & in Rom 13. &c. as though they wrote against the obedience due to Princes and their lawes ; it hath beene often answered by sundrie Protestants , and the untruth of it , is so notorious , as , that the workes and writings of them both , doe shew , and openly proclayme the contrarie to the world : if men would please to read them , and not to wrest their wordes , but to take them , everie where , in a right sense . But what meaneth he by this , that he saith : Kings and Princes , may more confidently build the safetie of their persons & estates , upon the loyaltie of their Catholicke subjects , then upon any Protestant subjects ? what , are Papists ( whom he calleth Catholicks ) more loyall to Protestant Kings , and Princes , then Protestants ? Is there any likelihood of trueth , in this ? Or doth he thinke , that Protestant Kings and Princes , will or can be so perswaded ? For is it possible , that they , who for love or affection to the Pope , and Popish Religion , denie and oppugne the Kings SUPREMACIE , and the true Christian RELIGION he professeth and defendeth , can be more loyall or better subjects unto him , then those that acknowledge his SUPREMACIE , & RELIGION by his Authoritie established ? Thankefully , and joyfully embracing them both , praying unto God for the continuance of them , and for all maner of happinesse and prosperitie upon him and his , which is the defendor and maintayner of them both amongst us , and thinke themselves bound in duetie and conscience so to doe ? Comparisons , they say , are odious , and therefore I could have wished that he had forborne them , neyther needed he to have used them : For , if wee all , both Protestants and Papists , bee in all respects , and at all times , found , faithfull , true , and good Subjects to his Majestie , as of right & duetie we all ought , and as I hope , we all shall be ; I doubt not but it will suffice , although we strive not thus to provoke one another , by Comparative , or Superlative termes . But what reason hath he further , to call Calvine , ( as he doth , ) the sensuall Libertine of this age , who wrote against the libertines , and against all licentiousnesse , and all manner of ungodlinesse , and impietie whatsoever : For so his many learned , laborious , godly , and worthy workes , doe abundantly testifie and declare to the world ? Will Papists never cease their malitious , and untrue accusations against Luther , Calvine , Beza , and other Protestants ?

5 The second Text I alledged , to prove the Kings Supremacie , over all persons , Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill , within his owne Dominions , is taken out of S. Paul , in Rom. 13. where S. Paul saith thus . Rom. 13.1.2.3.4.5.6 . &c. Let everie Soule be subject to the higher powers , for there is no power but of God : and the powers that be , be ordained of God : Whosoever therefore resisteth the power , resisteth the ordinance of God : and they that resist , shall receive to themselves condemnation . For Magistrates are not to bee feared for good workes , but for evill . Wilt thou then be without feare of the power ? Doe well : so , shalt thou have prayse for the same : For , he is the Minister of God unto thee , for thy good : but if you doe evill , feare ; For hee beareth not the Sword in vaine ; For he is the Minister of God , a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill . Wherefore yee must be subject , not onely because of wrath , but also for conscience sake : And for this cause , pay yee tribute also : For they are Gods Ministers , imploying themselves , for that very purpose . By the higher powers , ( in this Text ) , whereto subjection is required , & which beare the sword , for the punishment of the evill doers , and for the prayse of them that doe well , is meant , 1. Pet. 2.13.14 . ( as S. Peter also hath before shewed ) , those that be Kings , Princes , and such like Civill and Temporall Magistrates . And this is so evident , as that though my Adversary doth not , yet the Rhemists doe ingeniously confesse , Rhem. Annot. in Rom. 13. vers. 4. and teach it . For , That the Apostle meaneth here specially of Temporall powers , we may see , ( say they , ) by the sword , tribute and externall compulsion , he here attributeth to them . Neyther was there then , ( as they say , ) any doubt conceaved by Christian men , whether they should obey their Spirituall powers , or Spirituall Governors , yea or no : which is another reason , they them give to shew , that this Text is not to bee expounded of Spirituall , Origen . in hunc locum . but of Civill and temporall Rulers and Magistrates . Origen likewise declareth the same , affirming them to be , Non Antistites , & Principes Ecclesiarum ; sed Mundi judices , & seculi potestates , Not Bishops , and Prelates of Churches , but worldly Iudges , and secular Powers . In like sort S. Ambrose affirmeth them to be Reges , Ambros . in hunc locum . Aug. de Catech. rudibus cap. 21. & seculi rectores , Kings and secular Governors . S. Augustine also saith , that hereby is taught , Ecclesiam Christi in omnibus sanctis ejus , servituram esse , sub Regibus seculi : That the Church of Christ in all his Saints , Lib. 2. dist. 44. must serve under the Kings of this world . The M. of the Sentences likewise saith : that the Apostle speaketh of Princes , and such like . Aquinas also doth interprete them , Aquinas in ●●lle locum . to be , Potestates terrenas , & carnales Dominos , Terrestriall powers , and temporall Governors . Aug contr. epist Parmen. li. 1. c. 7 S. Augustine againe , in another place , yet more fully declareth the same . What credit then is to be given to mine Adversarie , when contrarie to the testimonie of all these , and contrarie also to the testimonie of the Rhemists , and contrarie also to the cleare evidence of the Text it selfe , he saith , That in these higher Powers , is no more included the Temporall , then the Spirituall Powers ? Yea , S. Chrysostome also yet further sheweth , that Apostles , Prophets , Evangelists and such like Ecclesiasticall Ministers , are to be reckoned in the number of those Soules , that are to bee subject to the higher powers ; and therefore can none of them ; ( no , not the Bishop of Rome himselfe , ) be comprised or intended under the name of the higher Powers , there mentioned . Chrysost. in Rom homi● 23. S. Chrysostomes wordes be these : Let everie Soule be subject to the higher Powers : Yea , though you be an Apostle , though an Evangelist , though a Prophet , Sive quisquis tandem fueris , &c. Or whosoever you be . My Adversarie is so captious , as that because in my former Booke , pag. 2. cap. 1. there is an , &c. after these wordes in Latin , Quisquis tandem fueris : hee would make his Reader beleeve , that there is some abstruse meaning in that Enigmaticall ●●●se , ( as he calleth it , ) which if I would unfold , would declare , how little it made for my purpose : But , why doth not himselfe unfold that aenigma ? Is it , because Davus est , non Oedipus ? For if himselfe had read the place in Chrysostome ( as it seemeth he did not ) , he might easily have unfolded the aenigma , & discovered the fallacy or deceit , if any had lyen inclosed , or hidden in it . But my selfe did indeed sufficiently unfold it , in the verie same place ( pag. 2. ) , where , after that ( &c. ) I added out of Chrysostome , that which I meant by that ( &c. ) , namely , these words , Neque enim pietatem subvertit ista subjectio , For neyther doth this subjection overthrow pietie or godlinesse . The whole clause and sentence then , ( that being also added which was intended by the &c. ) , is this : ( viz. ) Let everie Soule be subject to the Higher powers : Yea , though you be an Apostle , though an Evangelist , though a Prophet , or whosoever you be : For neyther doth this subjection overthrow pietie or godlinesse . Now he hath it wholy & intirely unfolded : What can he make of it , eyther to advantage himselfe , or to disadvantage mee ? Yea , this unfolding & expressing of it , rather maketh for me ; because it directly affirmeth , that this subjection ( of Apostles , Prophets , Evangelists , & all other Ministers Ecclesiasticall , ) To these Higher powers , standeth well with Christian Religion , and doth no way subvert , or overthrow any part of pietie or godlinesse . Wherefore , S. Chrysostome saith there yet further that , Omnibus ista praecipiuntur , Sacerdotibus quoque a● Monachis , & non solum secularibus : These things be commanded to all , even to the Priests also , and to Monckes , and not to secular-men onely . I likewise alledged , ( in that first Chapter of my Booke , ( pag. 2. & 3. ) Theodoret , Theodoret. Theophil . & Oecumenius in Rom 13. Be●●ar Epist. 42 Greg. Epist. li. 2 Epist. 62. & 65. Paris 1605. Theophila●● , Oecumenius , Aeneas Silvius , Gregory , and Bernard : who all declare , ( aswell as Chrysostome ) , that even Bishops , Priests and Cleargie-men , and not Secular or Lay-men onely , be in the number of those Soules , that are to be subject to these higher Powers : In somuch that Aeneas Silvius , Aene●● Silvius lib. 1 de Ge●●● Basil . Concil. ( who was himselfe , sometime a Pope of Rome , ) affirmeth , that S. Paul saith : Omnis anima potestatibus subli mioribus subdita fit : nec excipit animam Papae . Let everie Soule be subject to the higher Powers : Neyther , ( saith he , ) doth S. Paul here except the soule of the Pope himselfe , but that he also ought to be subject . And for further proofe hereof , Ortat . contr. Parmen. lib 3. I alledged also the testimonie of Optatus , who saith : that super Imperatorem non est nisi solus Deus , qui fecit Imperatorem : Above the Emperor , is not any , but God onely that made the Emperor . I cited also the testimonie of Tertullian , Tertul ad S●apul cap. 2. writing thus : Colimus Imperatorem , ut hominem à Deo secundum , & solo Deo minorem . We Christians doe honour the Emperor , as the man next unto God , & inferior onely unto God . Agreeably whereunto he saith againe of the Emperors , Ters. Apolog. cap. ●0 . that they be under the power of God onely , à quo sunt secundi , post quem primi : from whom they be the second , after whom they be the first . And ( pag. 30. ) I alledged the testimonie , Chrysost. ad popul Antioch . homil. 2. once more , of S. Chrysostome , who saith of the Christian Emperor in his time : that Non habet parem super terram : He hath no peere or equall upon earth . Yea , he saith further of him , that hee was , Summitas & caput omnium super terras hominum , The head , and one that had the supremacie over all men upon earth . To all which , my Adversarie , according to his wonted , wise , and learned manner of answering , thought it best to answere nothing . Thus farre then have I proved against him , that by the higher powers , in this Text of S. Paul , be meant Emperors , Kings , Princes , & such like temporall Magistrates : and that by everie Soule in this Text , which is to be subject to the higher Powers , is meant , all manner of persons whatsoever , Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill and Temporall ; and consequently , that the Bishop of Rome , was then clearely subject to the Emperor of Rome , and so ought still to have continued . But my Adversary at last granteth , That Bishops , Priests , and Cleargie-men , be subject to the King , and to his Lawes ; but with this distinction , namely , according to the directive power of them , but not according to the coactive . And this distinction he learned , Bellar. de Clericis cap 28. not onely of Suarez , but of Bellarmine also : For thus likewise writeth Bellarmine . Non sunt amplius Reges , Clericorum superiores , & proinde non tenentur Iure divino , nec humano , eis parere , nisi quantum ad leges directivas . Kings are not any longer Soveraignes or superiors to Cleargie-men , and therefore are they not bound to obey them by Gods Law , or Mans law , unlesse it be in respect of lawes directive . What Bellarmine meaneth by lawes directive , himselfe declareth when he saith , That Princes have no coactive power over the Cleargie-men , but onely power directive . This distinction was not knowne in the Apostolicke , Primitive , and ancient Church , nor so long as the Bishops of Rome were subject to the Emperors ; but when the Bishops of Rome , contrarie to all lawes , both humane , and divine , had trayterously and wickedly subdued the Emperors ; and that it could be said of Emperors and Kings as Bellarmine speaketh , that ; Non sunt amplius Clericorum superiores , They are no longer Soveraignes or superiors to Cleargie-men : Then did this distinction arise or grow , that the Kings might have a directive power , but no coactive power over them , that is , might direct them to what was good , but might not compell them to it . And so faith also mine Adversarie , that coactive power imposeth penalties . Now this distinction is easily answered and confuted , yea he might have perceaved it in my former Booke ( pag. 7.8.9.10 . ) to have beene sufficiently answered and confuted . For besides other proofes , Aug lib. 1 in fine contr. Epist. Parmen. it is there shewed by diverse testimonies out of S. Augustine himselfe against the Donatists ; That Kings and Princes may not onely direct or command , but may also by Lawes , penalties and punishments , compell their Subjects , ( and consequently Cleargie-men , aswell as others , ) to obedience , in that which is good and godly . Yea , it is the proper and peculiar right of Kings and Princes , externally to use a power coactive , by reason of the sword committed to them from God : which , Ecclesiasticall Ministers , by vertue of their Ecclesiasticall calling and office , cannot doe . And seeing Parents have a power coactive over their children , and Masters in a familie over their servants : verie strange it were , if Kings should not be allowed to have a power coactive over their subjects . But it is indeede verie well knowne , that the Christian Emperors in ancient time , did use a power coactive , even over Cleargie-men , aswell as over others , inflicting penalties and punishments upon them . As for example : Constantine that Christian Emperor , exiled and banished Eusebius Bishop of Nicomedia , Theoderes . lib. 1. cap. 20. and Theognius Bishop of Nice : and hee saith further : That if any man ( whether Bishop , or other ) were offended , at that his banishing of them , and would grow malepart thereupon , Illius statim audacia , Ministri Dei , hoc est mea executione coercebitur : His boldnesse shall forthwith be repressed , by the execution of Gods minister , that is , of my selfe . Another Constantine also , ( by whose Imperiall Authoritie , the sixt Councell at Constantinople was held , in a Decree inserted in that Councell ) , Synod . 6. Act. 18 Conc. edit. ●in to ● . pag. 92. saith : Siquidem Episcopus est , vel Clericus , vel Monachico circundatus habitu , deportationis paenam exsolvet : If he be a Bishop , or a Clearke , or a Moncke , let him be punished with deportation or banishment . Charle-Mayne also in a French Synode , Tom 2. Concil. decreed imprisonment : Si ordinatus Presbiter fuerit , duos annos in carcere permaneat . Aug. lib. 1. in fine contr. epist. Par. S. Augustine againe declareth , that there was a Law Imperiall against those that professed themselves Christians and true Catholickes , and yet were not so , but kept private Conventicles , 〈◊〉 that he that ordayned a Clearke for that purpose , or the Clearke so ordained , should loose ten pounds of gold : and the place also where such Conventicles were kept , should be forfeyted to the Emperor . You see then ( for the refelling and overthrowe of that foolish and false distinction ) that the Christian Emperors had power coactive , over Bishops , and Cleargie-men , punishing them sometime with deportation , exile , or banishment : sometime , with imprisonment : and sometime with penalties , and losses of summes of money , and other forfeytures . And upon some kinde of offendors , you may read , that they inflicted the punishment of death . And indeede to what end , hath the King this Regall and Temporall Authoritie & jurisdiction , & the power coactive in his hands , by reason of the Sword committed to him from God , if hee may not use it , and put it in execution ? Yea my Adversarie himselfe confesseth , and saith , that Iurisdictio nullius videretur esse momenti , si coertionem aliquam non haberet : Iurisdiction might seeme to be of no regard , if it had not some coertion , or power coactive joyned with it . Againe , ( he saith : ) Cui jurisdictio data est , ea quoque concessa intelliguntur , sine quibus jurisdictio expleri non potest : To whom jurisdiction is given , all those things be also understood to be granted , without which that jurisdiction cannot be performed . Wherefore , even by those Maximes , which himselfe citeth and approveth , it is manifest ; that seeing the King hath a power , jurisdiction , and Authoritie , to direct & command Cleargie-men , he hath also a power coercitive , or coactive over them , to compell , correct , and punish them , if otherwise they will not obey those his directions and commandements . So that my Adversarie needed to have no better confuter of this his idle distinction then himselfe .

But pag. 5. in that first Chapter of my former Booke , I alledged that Text of Rom. 13. to prove also the Kings Authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall , aswell as Civill or Temporall . And indeede this Text serveth also verie sufficiently for that purpose . For as there is here no exception of any person , so is there also no exception of anie cause or matter : but whosoever doth evill , be it in what kinde of cause soever , he is here made subject to this sword and Temporall Authoritie of Emperors , Kings and Princes ; For the Text saith , That they are the ordinance of God , and the Ministers of God , ( attending , employed , and constituted to this verie end and purpose , ) for the prayse , countenancing , and encouraging of the good and wel-doers , and for discountenancing , Aug. Epist. 50. discouraging , and punishing of the bad , and such as be evill-doers . And therefore doth S. Augustine say : that Quicunque legibus Imperatorum , quae pro Dei veritate f●runtur obtemperare non vult , grande acquirit supplicium : Whosoever will not obey the Lawes of the Emperor , which are made for the trueth of God , doth purchase to himselfe a great punishment . Aug. Epist. 166. For , ( saith he in another place , ) Hoc jubent Imperatores , quod jubet & Christus : quia cum jubent bonum , per illos non jubet nisi Christus : The Emperors command that which Christ also commandeth : because when they command that which is good , it is Christ himselfe that commandeth by them . Aug de Civit. Dei lib. 5. cap. 24 Yea S. Agustine was so farre from this point of Poperie , to denie , or disallow the Authoritie of Emperors , Kings and Princes in matters Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion , as that he doth evermore teach , and defend it , whensoever there was occasion to speake of it , in somuch that he saith : Imperatores foelices dicimus , si suam potestatem ad Dei cultum maxime dilatandum , &c. We affirme the Emperors to be happie , if they extend their Authoritie the most they can , to doe service unto God , in the spreading of his Religion . For , Aug. Epist. ●0 . ( as the same S. Augustine againe saith , ) a King serveth God one way , as he is a man : and another way , as he is a King : As a Man he serveth God by living well and faithfully : But as he is a King , he serveth God by setting forth Lawes , to command that which is good , and to remove the contrarie . So that Kings , as Kings , serve God , in doing that for his service , which none but Kings can doe . Wherefore my Argument to prove the Authoritie of Emperors , Kings , and Princes , in both those points together , out of this Text of Rom. 13. is this : whosoever hath Authoritie to punish evill-doers , without exception of any person , and without exception of any cause , hath Authoritie over all persons , and in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill : But the Emperor within his Empyre , and the King within his Kingdomes , hath Authoritie to punish evill-doers without exception of any person , and without exception of any cause , ( as is apparant by the Text it selfe , wherein no exception is to be found . ) Ergo , the Emperor within his Empyre , and the King within his kingdomes , hath authoritie over all persons , and in all causes , aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill .

6 But now from this Text of Rom. 13. alledged in the 5. pag. of that first Chapter in my Booke , concerning the SUPREMACIE : My Adversarie commeth next to the point of Appeales , mentioned in the same first Chapter , pag. 24. So , that he here skippeth over 9. whole leaves together at one leape : and I must follow him in his course . It is true , that ( in the pag. 24. ) I said , that when Caecilianus Bishop of Carthage , was accused by Donatus , & some other of that saction , Constantine the Emperor commanded Caecilianus to come to Rome , with a certaine number of Bishops that accused him : and by his Commission , ( extant in Eusebius , ) authorized and appointed Miltiad●s , the then Bishop of Rome & some others with him , for the hearing and ending of that matter These Commissioners condemned Donatus , who appealed from their sentence , to the Emperor : which appeale also , the Emperor received . Where , beside that you see , that this Christian Emperor made Commissioners in this Episcopall and Ecclesiastical cause , observe withall , that Miltiades the then Bishop of Rome , was one of those Commissoners , and there withall you may also note , that the Bishops of Rome , were then verie clearely subject and not superior to the Emperor . So that a Christian King , or Prince , not onely may make Commissioners in Ecclesiasticall causes , but may also have Appeales made unto him , as is here apparant . To this my Adversarie maketh divers answers . First , ( he saith , ) that this instance concerning Appeales , maketh more against me , then for me , because it was an Appeale made by Hereticks , ( viz. ) the Donatists , unto the Emperor . But this reason of his , maketh more against him , then set him . For if it were lawfull for Heretickes , who thought themselves wronged by the inferior Iudges , to appeale to the Emperor : no lesse ( if not much more lawfull was it ) for the Orthodoxe Bishops if they were wronged , to appeale to him . And if Constantine , that Orthodoxe , godly and Christian Emperor , thought it lawfull for him , ( as hee did , for otherwise hee would never have meddled with it , ) to entertaine , and receave an appeale made to him from Heretickes : much more would hee have thought it lawfull and meete to receave Appeales from such as were Orthodoxe , right & true Christians , and men , for Faith & Religion , like himselfe . But that he may know , that not onely heretickes , but Orthodoxe Bishops also , Athan. Apolog. 2 cap. Quum multas . did appeale to the Emperor : Let him take for an evident proofe of it , the example of Athanasius , and of the other Bishops joyned with him , who , ( as is before shewed , ) appealed from the Councell of Tyrus , Socrat lib. 1. cap. 33. & 34. unto the same godly Emperor Constantine : which appeale the same Emperor likewise receaved . Neyther would Athanasius , nor any other good and godly Bishops have appealed unto him , if they had not thought it lawful , both for them so to doe , and for the Emperor also to receive such appeales . Neyther did the Donatists appeale onely from Miltiades the Bishop of Rome , and those that were joyned with him by Commission from the Emperor : But , they appealed also from those other Bishops , that were afterward assembled at Arle in France , for the hearing , and ending of the same cause . And both these Appeales did the Emperor receive , and upon the last appeale , he sate himselfe in person , and gave Iudgement for Caecilianus , against the Donatists : whose proceedings and Iudgments , upon those appeales , S. Augustine disliked not , but well liked and allowed : alledging them , as being substantiall proofes for the Catholickes , and lawfull , good , and effectuall judgements against the Donatists . I grant that Constantine was loth at the first , to be Iudge in this Episcopall cause , in his owne person , Aug Epist. 166 and therefore S. Augustine saith : Eam discutiendam atque finiendam , Episcopis delegavit , He delegated , and appointed Bishops to discusse and determine it , namely , Miltiades and his Colleagues . Ibidem . And when Miltiades and his Colleagues had pronounced Caecilianus innocent , and condemned Donatus , as Author of the schisme raysed at Carthage : Your side , ( saith S. Augustine to the Donatists , Ibidem . ) came backe to the Emperor , and complayned of the judgement of the Bishops against them . The most patient and milde Emperor , the second time gave them other Iudges , namely , the Bishops that met at Arle in France : And your men , ( saith he , seaking still to the Donatists , ) appealed from the Bishops of Arle also to the Emperors owne person ; and never left , till the Emperor himselfe in person tooke the hearing of the cause betweene them : which he did , and , upon hearing it , pronounced Caecilianus innocent , and those his accusers , Idem Epist. 162 to be malicious wranglers . Againe , the same S. Angustine saith : that the Donatists appealed from Ecclesiasticall judgement , to the end that Constantine might heare the cause : Whither , when they came , both parties standing before him , Caecilianus was adjudged to be innocent , and the Donatists overthrowne . To prove this I will further bring you , ( saith S. Augustine ) , the very wordes of Constantine , where he witnesseth , That upon judiciall hearing of both sides , he found Caecilianus to be cleare . Yea , S. Augustine sheweth further , what followed upon this judgement ; Aug. Epist. 166. Then did Constantine , ( saith he ) , make a sharpe law , to punish the Donatists : his sonnes continued the same . Reade , what Valentinian , reade when you will , what Gratian , and Theodosius , Decreed , against you . Why wonder you then , at the Children of Theodosius , as if they had followed any other president in this cause , then the judgement of Constantine , which so many Christian Emperors have kept inviolate ? Though Constantine bee dead , yet the judgement of Constantine , given against you , liveth . For , when Emperors command that which is good , it is Christ and no man else , that commandeth by them . Thus you see how much this judgement of Constantine upon this Appeale , made to him , ( though by Donatists ) , was not onely justified and approved by S. Augustine , but embraced also by other Christian Emperors , as Vertuous , and confirmed as Religious , and honoured of the whole Orthodoxe Church , in that time . So little cause hath mine Adversarie , or any other Papists , to mislike of Constantine his meddling therein , as if it were unlawfull . But secondly , my Adversarie answereth , that the then Emperor Constantine the Great , did remit Caecilianus and the Donatists , for the decision and determining of their difference , unto Miltiades Bishop of Rome , as to his proper and right Iudge . It is true , that he committed the hearing and determining of that cause unto Miltiades Bishop of Rome , but not to him alone , as if he were the sole and onely proper , and rightfull Iudge , in the case , but to him together with others : For , Marcus , Rheticius , Maternus , and Marinus , were interested with him in the same Commission . The Commission is yet extant in Eusebius , to be seene in these words . Constantine the Emperor , unto Miltiades Bishop of Rome , Euseb. li. 10. c. 5 and to Marcus , sendeth greeting : For asmuch as many such Epistles are brought unto mee from Anilinus Lieutenant of Africke , wherein it is said , that Caecilianus Bishop of Carthage is reprehended in many things , by divers of his Colleagues abiding in Africke : and this seemeth unto me very grievous , that there should be found in those Provinces , which the providence of God hath allotted peculiarly unto my government , a great multitude of people prone unto the worse , and disagreeing : And that amongst Bishops , there should be such variance . My pleasure therefore is , that Caecilianus with ten Bishops of his accusers , and ten other of his favourers , doe come to Rome , there to be heard before you both , joyning with you , Rheticius , Maternus , and Marinus , your Colleagues , whom purposely for that matter I haue commanded with speed to repaire thither unto you , &c. And S. Augustine likewise hath before told you , Aug Epist 166. that the Emperor committed this cause , Non Episcopo sed Episcopis , Not to one Bishop in the Singular number , but to Bishops in the Plurall number : eam discutiendam atque finiendam Episcopis delegavit . And againe he saith : Colla● . 3 diei cum Donatist●● cap 5 Causam Caecilian injunxit eis audiendam , & elsewhere he also saith , Constantinum dedisse Iudices iterum , Idem Epist. 166 That Constantine gave them Iudges a second time . And hee further proveth that those Iudges , both the first and second , might lawfully judge in that case , Idem Epist. 162. Eo quod Imperator illos Iudices dedisset , Because the Emperor had given those Iudges . So that it appeareth very fully and clearely , that not Miltiades alone , as Bishop of Rome , and in his owne right , but Miltiades associated and joyned with others , namely , with Marcus , Rheticius , Maternus and Marinus , were the Iudges , in this case , and that by Commission and Authoritie granted from the Emperor . Yea , you see , there was afterward also an Appeale from their sentence , to the Emperor , whereupon the Emperor , a second time , gave other Iudges . From these also 〈◊〉 there a second Appeale , to the Emperor himselfe in person : who , at the last , in his owne person heard and judged the cause , and without the Bishop of Rome , by his owne authoritie , pronounced finall sentence therein . The least of these facts proveth the Emperors Supremacie in those times , aswell over the Bishop of Rome , as over other Bishops : What force then have they , when they be all united and joyned together ?

Yet , thirdly , my Adversarie answereth , that Constantine the Emperor did but pronounce and declare , the justnesse of the sentence , given formerly against the Donatists , by their competent Iudge , Pope Miltiades . But first , why doth he still say , That the sentence against the Donatists , was given by Miltiades ; as though it had beene given onely by him ? For it is manifest , that it was not only his sentence and judgement , but the sentence and judgement of the rest of his Colleagues and fellow Commissioners joyned with him . Secondly , why doth he speake of Miltiades Bishop of Rome , as if he were the onely competent Iudge , when he not only seeth others to be joyned , and made Iudges with him , but an Appeale also to be made and allowed from his and their sentence , and from other Iudges also afterward given , to Iudge of the same cause . And thirdly , though Constantine the Emperor , did by this sentence , upon hearing of the cause , cleare and acquite Caecilianus , and condemne the Donatists , and so approved the first sentence , and judgement given by Miltiades and his Colleagues , and the second sentence also that was given by the other Bishops assembled at Arle in France : Yet doth this approbation of his , or declaration of the Bishop of Romes sentence in this case to be just and right , no more prove a supremacie in Miltiades the Bishop of Rome , then it doth in Marcus , Rheticius , Maternus , and Marinus , or then it doth in those other Bishops that were afterward assembled at Arle , whose sentence he likewise approved , and declared to be just . Neyther doth it any way impayre or detract from Constantine his judgement , but that hee was also a Iudge , and held the place and office of Iudicature , all this notwithstanding . For else may you say , that those Bishops assembled at Arle , ( whom S. Augustine expressely calleth Iudices , Iudges ) , were also no Iudges , because they likewise , aswell as Constantine , acquited Caecilianus , and condemned the Donatists , and so approved the sentence of Miltiades , and his Colleagues declaring it to be just . If a Writt of Error be brought in the Kings bench , of a Iudgement given in the Common-pleas , & upon hearing of the cause , the Iudges in the Kings Bench approve and confirme the judgement formerly given in the Common pleas , and so declare it to be just and right : Doth this any way prove that therefore those in the Kings bench be no Iudges , or doth it in any sort detract from their Authoritie ? So upon the Appeale made to the Emperor , when he in his own person , sate , as Iudge therein , having power in himselfe , eyther to affirme or disaffirme the former sentences and judgements given by others , as he shall find the cause upon hearing to require : If he upon hearing it , finding the former sentences and judgements given for Caecilianus against the Donatists to be just and right , doth by his final sentence pronounce and declare them so to be : Doth this therefore prove him to be no Iudge , or doth it any way detract from his supremacie ? Yea it doth rather verie strongly , and most strongly prove the Emperor to bee a Iudge , and the Chiefest and highest Iudge under God , and to have the Supremacie over the Bishop of Rome , aswell , as over other Bishops within the precincts of the Empyre . For , as Carerius also confesseth and teacheth , Summum Imperium penes eum esse constat , ●arer . de potest . Rom. Pont. lib. 1. cap. 10. ad cujus Tribunal provocatur : It is manifest that to him belongeth the Supremacie , to whose Tribunall the appeale is made .

But my Adversarie faith yet further , that Appeales to Emperors and Kings , were alwayes in Temporall matters , but therein he is a●so much deceaved . For Appeales were made to them sometimes in matters Ecclesiasticall : as even this very particular Appeale , here made to the Emperor in the cause betweene Caecilianus , and the Donatists , doth plainely declare . For Donatus and his partakers objected , that Cacilianus could not be Bishop of Carthage , for many crimes surmised against him , and especially , for that Felix which imposed hands on him , had , ( as they said ) , betrayed or burnt the Scriptures . Whereupon they not only refused his Communion , but procured also his condemnation in a Provinciall Synod by IXX. African Bishops , and in a tumult erected another Bishop . So that the great Question in this cause was , whether Caecilianus thus accused and ordayned by the imposition of hands of Felix , and condemned by that Provinciall Synod in Africke , were the right Bishop of Carthage , or he that was erected by the Donatists : Which , what is it else , but a matter Ecclesiasticall ? For , the parties accusing , and accused , were Ecclesiasticall , namely , Bishops ; the crimes and faults objected , were objected as just impediments to the Episcopall dignitie ; the things surmised , and to be tried , were the right election of Bishops , the lawfull deposing of them , the needfull Communion with them , the schismaticall dissenting from them . What causes can be more Ecclesiasticall then these ? And yet even in this Episcopall and Ecclesiasticall cause , was there ( as before appeareth ) an Appeale made to the Emperor , accepted by him , approved by sundry Emperors , and allowed also by S. Augustine , and the whole Orthodoxe Church in that time . That famous Appeale also from the Councell of Tyrus , to the Emperor , by Athanasius , and other Orthodoxe Bishops ioyning with him , was it not likewise in a matter Ecclesiasticall ? For the crimes objected against them , were these , ( viz. ) Overthrowing the Lords Table , dashing in pieces the Mysticall Cup , Socrat lib. 1. cap. 27. after the Greeke , &c. 20. in Latin . Act. 25.10.11 . burning the holy Bible , using a dead mans hand to sorcerie , &c. The appeale also which S. Paul himselfe made from the high Priest and Councell of the Iewes , unto Caesar , was it not also in a cause Ecclesiasticall ? For , were not the matters for which S. Paul was accused , matters Ecclesiasticall ? Festus himselfe witnesseth , that Pauls accusers brought no crime against him of such matters as he supposed , but had certaine questions against him , of their owne superstition , Act. 25.18.19 . and of one IESVS , that was dead , whom Paul affirmed to be alive . And this , even S. Paul also himselfe declareth in his answere , when he saith thus unto them : Act. 26 , 8. Why should it be thought a thing incredible unto you , that God should rayse againe the dead ? And so also wrote Claudius Lysias unto Felix the governor , Act. 23.28.29 . that when Paul was brought before the Councell of the Iewes , There I perceaved , ( saith hee ) , that Paul was accused of questions of their Law , but had no crime against him worthy of death , or bonds . Yea , S. Paul saith againe expressely thus : Of the resurrection of the dead it is , that I am accused of you this day . It is therefore very apparant , Act. 24.20.21 . that S. Pauls appeale from them to the Emperor , was in and concerning a matter Ecclesiasticall . And if ( which is a thing evident ) , S. Paul in a cause Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion , thought it lawfull and meete for him , to appeale to the Emperor when hee was an heathen , much more would hee have thought it lawfull and meete to Appeale to the Emperor being a Christian . For though an heathen Emperor hath in him the power and authoritie to receave such an appeale● yet upon such an appeale in a cause Ecclesiasticall and concerning Religion , is he not so well able to judge of the cause in respect of skill and knowledge , as he that is a Christian Emperor . And herein doth also that reverend and renowned Bishop , Athanasius , speake thus unto the Emperor of his time . Athan. ad Const. Apolog. Si apud alios accusatus essem , ad tuam Majestatem provocarem : quemadmodum Apostolus dixit , Caesarem appello , & cessatum est ab insidijs , contra eum . Iam quum apud te calumniam mihi ausi sunt intentare , ad quem , 〈◊〉 quaeso , appellare potero , nisi ad patrem ejus qui dixit , ego sum veritas ? If I were accused before others , I would appeale to your Majestie , as the Apostle said , I appeale to Caesar , and then was there no longer lying in wayte for him : but now that they are bold to calumniate me to your Majestie , to whom , I beseech you , may I appeale from you , unlesse it be to the Father of him that said , I am the trueth ? In which wordes , he sheweth , that this fact , and example of the Apostle Paul , in the appealing to the Emperor , was to be imitated , and followed of Christians in after times , and that beyond the Emperor , there was also in those times of Athanasius , no appeale to be made but to God onely .

But here now my Adversarie goeth about by alledging Appeales to have beene made to the Bishop of Rome , to inferre a supremacie to belong unto him : and for proofe thereof , he citeth some examples , as namely : First , that of Marcion , who being excommunicate , Epiph. haeros . 42. went to Rome to be absolved by the Bishop there , ( as he alledgeth out of Epiphanius . ) : Howbeit , Epiphanius doth not say , that he desired this absolution of the Bishop of Rome , but of diverse plurally , namely , a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Secondly , Epiphanius sheweth , that these of the Church of Rome , in that time answered him , That they might not receave or absolve him , without the consent or permission of his Reverend Father , the Bishop , that had excommunicated him . And thirdly against this course of running to Rome , it was afterwards purposely decreed in the Councell of Nice , Conc. Nic. 1. c. ● . That they that were excommunicate by one Bishop , should not be absolved of another . Wherefore all this maketh much against the supremacie of the Bishop of Rome , but nothing for him . His second example is of Fortunatus and Felix , who being wicked men & excommunicate in Africke , fled to Rome , to be absolved there by Cornelius the Bishop of Rome . And for proofe hereof , he citeth S. Cyprian : But doth S. Cyprian allow of this their flying to Rome ? No : Cyprian . lib. 1. Epist. 3. but cleane contrariewise he utterly misliketh , and condemneth it . For , writing to the same Cornelius , he saith , That certaine persons condemned in Africke by the Bishops there , Romam cum mendaciorum suorum merce navigaverunt , Sayled to Rome with their fraite of lyes : And against this hee addeth further , That it is a thing equall and right , that everie mans cause should be there heard , where the crime was committed . Againe he saith , That every Pastor , hath a portion of the Lords flock assigned unto him , which he must governe and rule , as hee that must give an account of his doings unto God , and therefore concludeth , that Oportet eos quibus praesumus , non circumcursare , &c. Those that be under our rule and governement , ought not to runne thus about ( to Rome ) but ought there to plead their cause , where they may finde both accusers and witnesses : unlesse perhaps , ( saith he ) , a few desperate and loose Companions , suppose the authoritie of a Bishop of Africke , to be lesse then the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome : which hee speakes as accounting it absurd , for any man to suppose , the Authoritie of the one , to be greater then the Authoritie of the other .

His third example is of Athanasius , who being deposed from his Bishopricke , made his appeale , ( saith he ) to Pope Iulius , and was by him restored . It is true , that Athanasius , the Patriarch of Alexandria , being oppressed , and wrongfully thrust from his Bishopricke , ( as diverse other Bishops likewise were in those dayes ) fled to the Bishop of Rome , not to acknowledge any supremacie in him over all other Bishops , as now he claymeth but as to a friend , and Patron , at whose hands he expected and hoped , to finde some helpe and defence in that his distresse . Sozomen . libr. 3. cap. 6. lat. The Bishops throughout the East , that favored the Nicene Faith , were , ( saith Sozomen ) deposed , and the chiefest States invaded by the Arrians , as Alexandria , in Egipt ; Antioch in Syria ; the Royall Citie of Constantinople , Criminationem illi . obiectam in so ser●●uns . in Hellespont . This the Bishop of Rome and the Priests of the West , tooke to be their reproch , & therefore verie freely entertayned Athanasius at his comming to them , and tooke upon them the defence of his cause . Where you see , that Athanasius had ayde and defence , not onely of the Bishop of Rome , but of the Priests of Rome also : wherefore , that his flying to Rome , and receiving helpe and defence from them , doth no more prove a supremacie in the Bishop of Rome , then it doth in the Priests of Rome . Yea , Athan. Apolog. contra Arrian . the letters which Athanasius brought with him to Rome , from the Bishops of his communion in the East , ( witnessing the wrongs which he suffered , and earnestly craving helpe therein ) , were not written to Iulius alone , but Omnibus ubique Ecclesiae Catholicae Episcopis , To all the Bishops of the Catholicke Church wheresoever . And accordingly was this matter heard and examined by a Synod , or Councell of Bishops : In which Synod ( and not by Iulius alone ) , it was , that Athanasius was receaved and restored , as Bishop of Alexandria , notwithstanding his former deposition . Neyther did Iulius the Bishop of Rome ,

Sozom. lib. 3. c 11 lat.

Socrat. lib. 2. cap. 20. in the greeke & cap 16. in the latin .

call or summon this Councell , but by the commandement of both the Emperors , ( saith Socrates ) . ( the one in the West , signifying the same by his letters , the other which ruled in the East , willingly condescending thereunto ) , there was proclaymed a generall Councell , that all should meete at Sardica a Citie of Illiricum , &c. Yea so farre was Iulius , the Bishop of Rome in that time , from having any supremacie over all the Bishops in Christendome , that when hee wrote to the Bishops of the East more freely and sharpely , and as if hee tooke some authoritie upon him over them , ( as they conceaved ) , these Easterne Bishops assembled together in a Councell at Antioch , formed an Epistle by uniforme consent of them all , Socrat. lib 2. cap. 15. in the greeke & cap 11. in the latin . & Sozom. l●b. 3. cap. 7. lat. wherein they inveigh bitterly against Iulius , and tell him plainely , That if any were banished the Church , and excommunicate by their decree and censure , it belonged not to him to intermeddle with it , nor to sit in judgement upon their Censure . So that howsoever the Bishops of the East , and of the West , might and did give mutuall helpe , counsell , comfort , and assistance one to another , yet if the Bishop of Rome would at any time goe beyond his bounds , and seeme to take authoritie over them ; We see , that these Bishops of the East , would by no meanes endure it , but gave it the repulse .

The fourth and last example which he citeth , is that of S. Iohn Chrysostome , who being deposed from his Bishopricke , Appealed , ( as he saith ) to Pope Innocentius the first . Bellarmine hath also this example , aswell as all the rest : so that , my Adversarie taketh indeede , all his weapons and artillarie , out of his store-house . But both Bellarmine , and He , doe but deceive their Readers . For Chrysostome , in his Epistle doth not pray ayde and helpe onely of Innocentius the Bishop of Rome , Chrysos . Epist. 1. ad Innocent . Tom. C n● . 1. edit Venet. 158● pag. 799. ( as they suggest , ) but of other Bishops likewise in the West , aswell as of him , speaking not in the Singular , but in the Plurall number , thus . Domini igitur maximè venerandi & pij , cum haec ita se habere didiceritis , studium vestrum , & magnam diligentiam adhibete , quo retundatur haec , quae in Ecclesias irrupit iniquitas . Therefore most religious and reverend Lords , since you see , how things be carried , extend your diligence , and endeavour , that this wickednesse which is broken into the Churches , may be beaten backe . Quippe , si mos hic invaluerit , scitote , quod brevi transibunt omnia . Quapropter , ne confusio haec , omnem , quae subcoelo est , nationem invadat , obsecro ut scribatis , ut haec tam inique facta , robur non habeant : Nobis vero , literis vestris & charitate vestra frui concedite . For if this grow to be a custome , know yee , that all things will shortly come to nought , and therefore least this confusion invade everie nation under heaven , I beseech you write , that those things so unjustly done , may beare no sway : And grant , that we the wronged Bishops of the East , may e●●oy your letters and your favours . And so he goeth on , with Verbes of the Plurall number , to the end : concluding his Epistle with these words and in this manner . Haec omnia , cum ita se habere intellexeritis , a Dominis meis prentissimis nostris Episcopis : obsecro , ut praestetis id quod petent officij . All these things when yee shall perceave to be true , by these my Lords and most godly brethren the Bishops , I beseech you to yeelde them , that assistance they shall desire . All which clauses in that Epistle , I thus the rather rehearse , to the end , you may the better judge , whether it be not more fitly , and more cohaerently to be reade , Obsecro ut scribatis , in the Plurall number , ( as the Protestants say it ought to be reade , ) then Obsecro ut scribas in the Singular number , as Bellarmine , and other Papists following the faultie and vicious copies would have it . For when he speaketh to his most Reverend and Religious Lords , the Bishops in the West ; were it not verie absurd to say thus unto them , Obsecro ut scribas , but to say , Obsecro ut scribatis is verie consonant , and most fit , and congruous . Againe how can , Obsecro ut scribas , well stand with these words . Literis vestris frui concedite ? or with didiceritis , adhibete , or , with Scitote , and intellexeritis , or with praestetis , or with all the rest of the Verbes that be of the Plurall number . But let this be as it will ; This is certaine , and cannot be denied , that Chrysostome prayed ayde aswell of the other Bishops of the West , as of Innocentius Bishop of Rome , & of them all alike . So that this example , and times of Chrysostome & Innocentius , make nothing for the Bishop of Rome his supremacie , but much against it : For when Chrysostome was deposed from his Bishopricke , in a Councell ●f Bishops at Calcedon , hee appealed from them , not to the Bishop of Rome , but to a generall Councell . This Socrates witnesseth saying : Socrat. lib. 6. cap. 15. in greeke & cap. 14 in the lat Iohannes , eos à quibus vocabatur , tanquam inimicos exceptione recusabat , & universalem Synodum appellabat : Iohn Chrysostome refused those that called him to that Councell , upon this exception , that they were his enemies , and appealed to a generall Councell . Secondly , those Bishops assembled in that Councell , for the deposing of Chrysostome , were so assembled , not by the commandement of the Bishop of Rome , but by the Emperors commandement : Ibidem . for so also doth Socrates testifie . Thirdly , when Innocentius saw , that the matter could not be ended but in a generall Councell , he sent Legats to Honorius and Arcadius Emperors , to beseech them to call a Councell , and to appoint the time and place for it : where also , his suite and supplication , was so little regarded ; That his Legats were sent away with reproch , Sozom. libr. 8. cap. 28. as disturbers of the West Empyre , as Sozomen witnesseth . Now , if Innocentius Bishop of Rome , had had the power and authoritie in those times to call generall Councells , Why did hee not call them ? Yea , why did he , by his Legats intreate and beseech the Emperors to doe it , if it were a right belonging to himselfe , or if it were not a right belonging to the Emperors in those dayes ? Or , if he were then the supreme commander of all the Christian world ( as the Popes now clayme to be ) how commeth it to passe , that he was such an humble suter to the Emperors for a Councell , and yet could not obtaine it ? Doe not all these things , strongly and invincibly declare , that in those times , not the Popes , but the Emperors , had clearely the supremacie ?

Then afterward , though much out of his due time and place , and very immethodically , ( for the exception had beene fitter in the next Chapter then in this , ) hee taketh this exception , that in the first part of my Booke , Cap. 2. and pag. 42. in the Margent , there is a misquotation in this sort ( viz. ) Bern. de cons. ad Eug. lib. 6. cap. 3. & 8. where it should have beene , Bern. de cons. ad Eug. lib. 4 cap. 2. For , indeede in this place , it is that S. Bernard calleth the Popes doctrines and pastures , Daemonum potius , quam ovium pascua , which be the wordes I cited S. Bernard for , and which are accordingly , there expressely , to be found . What a poore exception then is this , to carpe at a Quotation in the margent , when , the verie wordes , and matter , are there to be found , in the Author himselfe , whom I cited , namely , in S. Bernard ? Is he not farre driven , that is , forced to this kinde of exception ? And yet if hee had beene pleased to have looked into the Errata of my Booke , he might have found in the conclusion of them , that such like faults , as this , I desired the Reader to correct with his Pen , which he might very easily have done , if he had so pleased . But , as it seemeth , he is an hard man , that neyther out of his owne courtesie , nor yet upon the intreatie of others , will be moved to shew so small a kindenesse . What ? Is it , because better matter fayled him , that he tooke this silly exception and standeth so much upon it ? Or is it , because by this meanes , he loveth to declare himselfe to bee as voyde of good humanitie , as he is of true and sound divinitie ? For my part : I may say , that he giveth me herein cause to joy and rejoyce , that hee can justly take no exception to the matter contayned in my Booke , but onely to a marginall Quotation , thus misprinted and mistaken .

Howbeit , hee seemeth yet further , verie willing and forward , to carpe at these wordes in my Booke , Cap. 1 pag. 25. where I say , that in the time of King William Rufus , Anselmus the Archbishop of Canterbury , would have appealed to Rome , but not onely the King , but the Bishops also of England , were therein against him : but the trueth of this , is verie cleare and apparant . For Malmesbury , Malmesh . lib. 1. de ges●i , Pont. Angl. ( whom I there cite for proose hereof , ) witnesseth , That both the King , disliked that his doing , and that therein also , Omnes Episcopi Angliae , Primati suo suffragiūnegarunt , All the Bishops in England , denied their voyces unto their Primate . Yea Matthew Paris . further testifieth , Matth Paris . in Gulielm● 2 An. 1094. that when Anselmus Archbishop of Canterbury , asked leave of King William Rufus to goe to Rome : The King replyed , That no Archbishop nor Bishop of his Realme , should be subject to the Pope , or Court of Rome : especially for that he had all those rights in his kingdome , which the Emperor had in his Empyre : And for this cause , was Anselmus Convented by the King , as an offendor against the State . And to this accusation , did also the rest of the Bishops , Ibidem . except the Bishop of Rochester , give their consents . And because he ventured to goe over the Seas to Rome without leave : All his goods were seised to the Kings use , Ansel . Epist. 46. a● Paschalem is . 3. Colon. 1612. all his acts and proceedings in the Church of England reversed , and himselfe constrained to live in banishment during the life of King William , whereof Anselmus himselfe complayned in his Epistle to Pope Paschalis . Yea afterward also , Mat●● . Paris . in Hen. 1. An. 1104 in the time of King Henry the first , when the same Anselmus was returning home from Rome , the Kings Atturney in his Masters name , forbad him to enter the Land , unlesse he would faithfully promise to keepe all the customes , both of ( William the Conqueror ) his Father , and of William Rufus his brother : And when the King perceaved the Pope and the Archbishop , to continue their former purpose , against his Royall liberties , he seised the Bishopricke into his hands , and arrested all Anselmus goods , that were to bee found .

To these and certaine other liberties of the Crowne , Did also King Henry the second , not long after , cause all his Bishops and Nobles to be sworne : For , in the yeare of our Lord God M.C.LXIIII . This King Henry the second , being at Claredon in the presence of the Archbishops , Bishops , Abbots , Matth. Paris . in He●rico secundo , Anno 1164. Pryors , Earles , Barons , and great Men of the Realme , there was made a rehearsall of some part of the Customes and liberties of his Auncestors , as of King Henry his Grand-father , and others , which ought to be kept in this Realme , and observed of all , &c. Amongst which customes and liberties , being sixteene in Number , these were some ; namely : That no Archbishop , Bishop , nor any other person of the Realme , may goe out of the Land without the Kings leave . And as touching appeales if any be made , they shall come from the Archdeacon to the Bishop , & from the Bishop to the Archbishop : And if the Archbishop fayle in doing justice , it shall be lawfull to come last of all to the King , that by his commandement the matter may be ended in the Archbishops Court . So that no man shall proceede to appeale any further without the Kings consent . These customes & liberties of the Crowne , the Archbishops , Bishops , Abbots , Pryors , and Cleargie with the Earles , Barons , and all the Nobles sware , and by word of mouth faithfully promised should be kept , and observed to the King , and his heires for ever , simply , without any fraud . Yea , Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury himselfe , condescended to them , Matth Paris . ibidem . & promised also with an Oath to keepe them : although afterward he revolted , and brake his Oath , and fled to Rome . But ( saith mine Adversarie ) The Pope of Rome , Alexander the third , would not confirme these lawes or liberties , though the King requested it . What of this ? The liberties , lawes , and customes of the kingdome , were good enough without his confirmation . Yet the King perceaving his so just and reasonable a request , to be repelled by the Pope , was not a little offended thereat , and therefore wrote Letters to all his Shiriffes & Lieutenants in England , on this wise : I commande you that if any Cleargie-man , or Lay-man in your Countie , appeale to the Court of Rome you attach him , and hold him in fast-ward , till our pleasures be knowne . And to his Iudges also he wrote in this sort . If any shall be found to bring letters or a mandate from the Pope , or from Thomas the Archbishop , interdicting the Realme of England : Let him be taken and kept in Prison , till I signifie what shall be done with him . They that wrote the life of the same Thomas Becket , doe report it thus : Let him be forthwith apprehended for a Traytor , In quadrilog . de ●ita Thom. Cant and execution done upon him : which agreeth with that which likewise , ( pag. 25. cap. 1. of my Booke , ) I cited out of Hoveden , where he saith : that , Si quis inventus fuerit , literas vel mandatum ferens Domini Papae , ●●veden . Henr. 2 &c. Capiatur , & de eo , sicut de Regis traditore , & regni , sine dilatione fiat justitia . If any shall be found , bringing letters or a mandate from the Pope , let him be apprehended , and let justice be done upon him , without delay , as upon a traytor to the King and the kingdome . Where it is also further said , that , Generaliter interdictum est , ne quis appellet ad Dominum Papam . It was generally prohibited , that none should appeale to the Pope . Wherefore , you see , that which I wrote , concerning Anselmus , and concerning Appeales , to be verie true . Yea , how earnest and vehement , this valiant and worthy Prince , King Henry the second , was , against the Pope , for maintenance of his Regall rights , appeareth further by an Epistle of his , written to the Archbishop of Colen , Matth. Paris . in Hen. 2 An. 1168 in these wordes . I have long desired , ( saith he ) , to finde a just occasion to depart from Pope Alexander , and his perfidious Cardinals , which presume to maintaine my Traytor , Thomas of Canterbury , against me . Whereupon , by the advise of my Barons , and Cleargie , I meane to send the Archbishop of Yorke , the Bishop of London , the Archdeacon of Poictiers , &c. to Rome : which shall publikely denounce , and plainely propose in my behalfe , and in the behalfe of all the Dominions I have , to Pope Alexander , and his Cardinals , that they maintayne my Traytor no longer , but rid me of him , that I with the advise of my Cleargie may set another in the Church of Canterbury . They shall also require them , to frustrate all that Becket hath done , and exact an Oath of the Pope , that he and his successors , as much as in them lyeth , shall keepe and observe inviolable to me and all mine for ever , the Royall customes of King Henry my Grand-father : If they refuse any of these my demaunds , neyther I nor my Barons , nor my Cleargie will yeelde them any kinde of obedience any longer : Yea rather we will openly oppugne the Pope , and all his : and whosoever in my land shall be found hereafter , to adhere to the Pope , shall be banished my Realme . Here then by the way , let me demaund , why any Papists doe call this Thomas Becket a martyr , whom the King calleth a traytor ? The manner of his death , being done by private violence , and not by publike authoritie , nor in a legall sort , I utterly dislike : But is not also his stout standing in that quarrell against his King , and against his owne oath also , and against the punishing of murtherers , theeves , and other malefactors by the Kings Lawes , ( if they were Cleargie-men , ) justly worthy to be condemned ? Or can he that dieth in and for so bad a cause , deserve to be called a martyr ? But such it seemeth , be the martyrs of the Popish Church .

But not onely these Kings of England before mentioned , namely , King William Rufus , King Henry the first , and King Henry the second , and some others , thus contended & opposed themselves against the Popes of Rome , Ex Lanfranc . Epistolis M. S. in Biblioth. Cotton . & Baron . Anno. 1079. §. 25. for maintenance of their Regall rights , but King William the Conqueror also , who was before all these , 〈◊〉 the like Kingly opposition . For , when Hildebrand , otherwise called , Pope Gregory the seaventh , was bold to demaund of the King , an oath of fealtie to be made to him , as if the King were to hold his kingdome of him , as of his Soveraigne Lord . This King would by no meanes yeelde thereunto , but sent him a full negative answere , writing thus unto him : Fidelitatem facere nolui , nec volo : quia nec ego promisi , nec antecessores meos , antecessoribus tuis , id fecisse comperio . I neyther would doe , nor will doe fealtie , because I neyther promised it , nor doe I finde , that any of my predecessors have done it to any of your predecessors . This answere of the King , is extant in an Epistle of his , written to the same Pope , which you may see set downe more at large by that excellent antiquarie and learned & godly divine , Doctor Vsher , late Lord Bishop of Meath , and the now most Reverend and worthy Lord Archbishop of Ardmagh , Primate and Metropolitan of all Ireland , in his Booke , De Christianarum Ecclesiarum successione & statu , pag. 182. Neyther neede I to insist onely upon these former Kings of England . For doe but reade further , the Statutes of Provision , and Praemunire made in that kingdome , See the Statutes of Provi●ion and Premunire in Rastall fol. 354. &c. and thereby you may see at full , that many & sundrie other Kings of England likewise , and the whole Realme also concurring and joyning with them therein , have in severall Parliaments , made Lawes and Statutes against the Popes incrochments and usurpations , in maintenance and defence of their Regall rights , freedomes , and liberties . And among many other good reasons they shew for those their doings , this is not the least , that they say expressely in one of those Acts of Parliament , See this in the Statute of 16. Rub. 2 cap. 5. That the Crowne of England hath beene so free at all times , that it hath beene in subjection to no Realme , but immediately subject to God , and to none other , in all things touching the Regalitie of the same Crowne . And therefore doe they there utterly dislike in plaine tearmes , That it should be submitted to the Bishop of Rome . Wherefore it is apparant , that even the ancient Kings of England , long before the dayes of K. Henry the VIII . of famous memorie , have stood and contended , not onely for the freedome of the Crowne generally , ( not allowing it to be in subjection to any , but to God onely ) , but also in a particular sort , for divers their particular Regall rights , & liberties . Amongst which , you may perceave , this to be one , namely , that Appeales even in Ecclesiasticall causes , they would have to be determined within their owne kingdomes , and not to be made , transferred , or carried without their consent , to the Pope or Sea of Rome .

8 But now what meaneth mine Adversarie to be so extreamely audacious , as to denie the first foure generall Councells to have beene called by the Emperors ? Let therefore the Ecclesiasticall Historie shew and decide it . Touching the first generall Councell at Nice : Ruffin . li. 10. c. 1. Ruffinus saith expressely , that Constantinus apud urbem Nicenam Episcopale Concilium convocavit : The Emperor Constantine , called the Councell of Bishops together at the Citie of Nice . Euseb de vita Const. l b. 3. c. 6 & lib. 1. cap. 37 Eusebius that wrote the life of Constantine , saith , of that Emperor , that Generalem Synodum congregavit , He assembled the generall Councell . Socrates saith likewise , that Constantine , Socrat. lib 1. c. 8 in the greeke . & cap. 5. in the lat. Synodum Oecumenicam congregavit , & omnes qui fuerunt undique Episcopos in Nicaeam confluere hortatus est , Assembled a generall Councell , and willed all the Bishops every where to meete at Nice . Theodoret saith , that the Emperor , Theodoret. libr. 1 cap. 17. celebrem illam coegit Nicea Synodum , &c. Assembled that famous Councell of Nice , Sozomen saith , that Constantine , Indixit Concilium Niceae , scripsitque ad omnes Ecclesiarum praesides , Soz. lib. 1. ca. 16. lat. ut ad diem praestitutum adessent . Summoned the Councell of Nice , and wrote to all the Prelates of the Churches , to be there , at the day prefixed , And the same Sozomen saith , That hee sent his letters to the Apostolicke Seas : To Macarius , Bishop of Ierusalem , to Eustathius , Bishop of Antioch : To Alexander , Bishop of Alexandria , and to Iulius Bishop of Rome : Who being an old man , and not able to come himselfe , hee sent in his stead , Vitus and Vincentius . The Nicene Fathers themselves , by their Synodall Epistle . Theodoret. lib. 1. cap 9. ( extant in Theodoret ) , which they wrote to the Church of Alexandria , doe restifie : That they were assembled by the authoritie of the Emperor Constantine . And if the Bishop of Rome had had the power and authoritie , to call the Councell , he would no doubt , being an old man , and not able to travell , have had it at Rome , or in some part of Italy , rather then at Nice in Bithinia , so farre remote from Rome . Nicephorus also saith , that Imperator Nicaenam Synodum promulgabat & literis locorum omnium Episcopos , Niceph. li. 8. c. 14 ad constitutum diem eo evocavit : The Emperor proclaymed the Councell at Nice , and by his letters called thither , the Bishops of all places to be there , at the day appointed . Zonaras . Zonaras saith : that Imperator , provinciarum Episcopos , Niceae , Bithini●● urbis , convenire jussit . The Emperor commanded the Bishops of the Provinces , to meete together at Nice , Platina in vita Silvestri . a Citie in Bithinia . And Platina also writeth , that this generall Councell of Nice , was summoned or called Constantini mandato , by the commandement of Constantine the Emperor . It is therefore abundantly manifest , that this first generall Councell of Nice , was called , not by the authoritie of any Pope , but of the Emperor . How then , is it not an over great , if not a most intollerable impudencie , in Papists , to denie so manifest , and palpable a trueth ? As touching that answere which Bellarmine and other Papists make , when they say , That this Councell was called or summoned by the advise and consent of the Bishop of Rome . First , Ruffin . lib. 1. c. 1. Ruffinus saith , that it was assembled , or called , Ex sacerdotum sententia , by the advise and consent of the Priests , and not of the Bishop of Rome alone . Epiphan. lib 2. Tom 2. haeres . 68 Yea , Epiphanius saith , That it was obtayned of the Emperor , at the suite of Alexander , Bishop of Alexandria . But secondly , it maketh no matter , at whose suite or request , or by whose advise or consent , the Councell was summoned . For the question is not , by whose perswasion or suite , or by whose advise or consent , but by whose authoritie it was called . Now it is verie apparant , that it was called and assembled , by the authoritie and commandement , not of any Bishop of Rome , but of the Emperor .

The second generall Councell , ( which was the first Constantinopolitane , ) was also called , not by Damasus Bishop of Rome , but by the Emperor Theodosius the elder . This is also evident : First , by Theodoret , who saith : Theodor. li. 5. c. 7 Hujus rei gratia , Theodosius , Episcopas Constantinopoli congregari jussit : For this cause Theodosius commanded the Bishops to be assembled at Constantinople . Socrat. lib 5. ca. 8 Soz li. 7. c. 6. lat. Zonar . in Theod. In dedicatoria ad I Theodosium . Socrates and Sozomen likewise doe both testifie , that Theodosius summoned & assembled this Councell . Zonaras saith , that this second generall Councell was summoned Iussu Imperatoris , by the commandement of the Emperor : 150. godly fathers being there assembled . And the very Councell it selfe speaking to Theodosius , doe testifie the same , and say thus . Wee being assembled at Constantinople by the Letters of your Pietie .

The third generall Councell , namely , the first Ephesine was also called , not by the authoritie & commandement of Celestinus Bishop of Rome , but by the Emperor Theodosius the younger . This is verie manifest , Evagr lib. 1. c. 3. for Evagrius saith directly , That by the appointment , or command of Theodosius the younger , the first Ephesine Councell was assembled . Liberat. in hist. de Concil. Ephes. Liberatus likewise writeth , That the Emperor wrote to all Bishops , that they should assemble at Ephesus , to judge of the Bookes of Nestorius and Cyrillus : Epist. Synod . And in their Epistle to all the Bishops , thus writeth the Councell it selfe : Cum essemus Ephesi , secundum pias Imperatoris literas congregati : When we were at Ephesus assembled , according to the pious letters of the Emperor . Socrates also saith , that Imperatoris mandato , Episcopi ex omnibus locis Ephesum conveniunt : Socrat. li. 7. c 33 in the lat. & ca. 34. in the greeke The Bishops of all places , came together to Ephesus , by the commandement of the Emperor . Zonaras saith : These things being knowne , Caelestinus Bishop of Rome , Cyrillus Bishop of Alexandria , Iohn Bishop of Antioch , and Iuvenall Bishop of Ierusalem , relate the matter to Theodosius the Emperor , and to Pulcheria the Empresse , desiring that he would summon a Councell , Niceph. lib. 14. cap 34. &c. Nicephorus also saith : Theodosius Imperialibus literis , in Metropoli Epheso , locorum omnium Episcopos , convenire jussit : That Theodosius by his Imperiall letters , commanded the Bishops of all places , to meete together at Ephesus the Metropolitan Citie .

The fourth generall Councell , was the Councell of Chalcedon , and this also was summoned , not by authoritie and commandement of Leo , the first , Bishop of Rome , as my Adversarie affirmeth , but the Emperors Authority , and commandement . This may appeare even by Leo himselfe Epist. 43.53 . and sundrie other of his Epistles . But we neede not to cite other testimonies : For , the verie Councell of Chalcedon it selfe , Conc. Chalcedon . Actione prima doth testifie , that it was summoned by the Emperors , and that the Bishop of Rome was also called thither , who because he could not be there in person , sent others in his steade . Yea , that Leo Bishop of Rome , did not summon this Councell , nor any other generall Councell in those dayes , but acknowledged it to be a right belonging to the Emperors , is further verie manifest by the Epistle he writeth to the Emperor , wherein he saith thus unto him : Pietas vestra suggestioni , ac supplicationi nostrae dignetur annuere , Leo Epist: 9 ut intra Italiam jubeatis haberi Episcopale Concilium : Let your pietie vouchsafe to yeld to our suggestion and supplication , in this , that you command a Councell of Bishops to be held within Italy . Againe hee saith thus . Leo Epist. 24. Lovan . 1575. Omnes partium nostrarum Ecclesiae , omnes mansuetudini vestrae cum gemitibus , & lachrimus supplicant sacerdotes , ut generalem Synodum jubeatis infra Italiam celebrari : All the Churches that take part with us , and all the Priests , with sighes and teares doe humbly beseech your mansuetude , that you will command a generall Councell to be celebrated within Italy . He also sollicited the Princesse Pulcheria , Leo Epist. 26. & 23. and the Nobles , Cleargie , and people of Constantinople , for a Councell to be held in Italie : But neyther in his first suite , nor in this last did he prevaile , all this notwithstanding . For , as touching his former suite , which was in the time of the Emperor Theodosius the younger , that Emperor ( as before appeareth ) assembled the Councel , not within Italie , ( as Leo desired , ) but at Ephesus . And as touching the latter , it is also apparant , that by the Emperors appointment and commandement , the Councell was assembled , not in Italie , ( as the Pope would have had it , ) but at Chalcedon .

I might proceede further , and shew , that , beside these first foure generall Councells , other Councells were likewise : summoned and assembled , by the Authoritie and commandement of the Emperors , and not of the Bishops of Rome . For there was also a fift generall Councell summoned , or called , Mandato Iustiniani , By the commandement of the Emperor Iustinian , as Evagrius witnesseth . And so likewise saith Nicephorus , that , Imperator Iustinianus , Evagr. lib 4 c. 11. N●●ph libr. 17. cap. 27. sanctam quiatam Oecumenicam Synodum , Episcopis omnium Ecclesiarum convocatis coegit . The Emperor Iustinian , assembled the fift holy generall Councell , by calling the Bishops of all Churches together . The Councell of Sardica also ,

Socrat. lib. 2 cap. 20 in the g●eek , & cap. ●6 . in the ●a in .

Theo●oret l●b. 2. cap. ● . S●crat . lib. 〈…〉 greeke , & cap. ●9 in the 〈◊〉 . Cusa● . de 〈◊〉 , lib. 2 . ●ap. 25.

was called by the Emperors Authoritie and commandement , as Socrates , and Theodoret declare . And so were also those Councells of Selencia , and A●imi●●● , called by the Emperors Authoritie and commandement . Yea , what generall Councell was there called in those ancient times , but by the Emperors ? In somuch , that Cardinall Cusanus himselfe ingenuously confesseth and affirmeth , that , The first eight generall Councells were called by the Emperors . Is there then any credite at all to be given to those Papists in these dayes , who doe and dare denie this so cleare , manifest , and evident a truth ? Wherefore it being a thing most apparant , that in ancient times the Emperors by their Authoritie and commandement , called the generall Councells : it followeth necessarily thereupon , that the Emperors thereby commanded aswell the Bishop of Rome , as the other Bishops , and consequently had the Supremacie , aswell over the one , as over the other .

9 But yet further to prove the Supremacie of the Emperors , I alledged , that the Emperors in ancient time , banished , imprisoned , and otherwise also punished , by their Authoritie , even some of the Bishops of Rome themselves , aswell as other Bishops . Whereunto mine Adversarie answereth , that , These things they did , de facto , but not warrantable de jure . But why were they not warrantable de jure ? I grant , that a banishment or imprisonment may possibly be sometimes wrongfull and unjust , in respect of the man , and the matter , that deserveth it not : but this is no impeachment or argument therefore against the lawfulnesse of the authoritie . As if an Emperor , or King doe banish , or committe a man to prison , for professing any point of true Religion , this banishment and imprisonment is wrongfull and unjust , in respect of the cause , which deserveth no punishment at all . Yet it cannot be denied , but he hath power & Authoritie good and lawfull enough , both to banish , and to committe to prison notwithstanding , when there is a just cause : For that which is but an abuse of Authoritie , doth not take away the lawfull use of it . So that if any Bishop of Rome , or any Bishop whosoever within the Dominions of the Empyre , did offend so farre , as to deserve banishment , imprisonment , or other Temporall and Civill punishment , it was a thing lawfull and just for the Emperor , to inflict those punishments upon them , aswell as upon any other . For it is , indeede , to these Higher Powers , namely , to Emperors , Rom. 13.1.2.3.4 Kings and Princes , that God hath committed the Civill and Temporall sword , for the encouragement and prayse of them that doe well , & for the discouragement , terror , & punishment of those that doe evill : And these be Ministri Dei , The Ministers of God , ( as S. Paul also sheweth , ) instituted for that verie end and purpose . Now none will denie , but banishment , and imprisonment , be punishments Civill and Temporall , and not Ecclesiasticall , and doe rightly and properly belong to the Authority of Emperors , Kings and Princes , and not to the function and office of Bishops , and Ecclesiasticall Ministers . And therefore the banishment , and imprisonment , that any Emperors or Kings , used against any Bishops , or others upon just cause , and when they deserved it , must needes be granted to be things done by them , ( both in respect of the authoritie , and in respect of the cause also , ) aswell de jure , as de facto , that is , to be things lawfull , warrantable , and justifieable , in all respects . For , as for those distinctions , that Emperors and Kings have Authoritie , over persons Temporall , but not Ecclesiasticall : and a Power directive , but not Coactive , and in causes Civill and Temporall , but not in Ecclesiasticall : The untruth , absurditie , folly , & impietie of all these distinctions , hath beene before so sufficiently discovered , that I shall not neede to speake any more of them : And by this time , I hope , that even the Papists themselves bee ashamed of them : Sure I am , they have good cause so to be , if they did duely ponder , and consider them .

Seeing then it is confessed , that the Emperors did in ancient time by their Authoritie , banish , imprison , and otherwise punish even Bishops of Rome , aswell as other Bishops , & that no reason can be shewed against the doing hereof , when they be such offenders , as that they justly deserve such punishment , it is thereby undeniably apparant , that the Bishop of Rome in those dayes had not the supremacie over the Emperors , but that cleane contrariewise , the Emperors had the Supremacie over him , aswell , as over any others within their Empy●e .

Another Argument which I use , consisteth in this , that I say , even Kings of Rome , did also sometimes send the Bishops of Rome , as their Embassadors . By this argument my Adversarie saith , That he supposeth , that I meant , but to make men merry . Why ? In serious matters , I love not to be ( as he is many times , ) ridiculous , but to be serious , and to deale seriously . First therefore , hereby I prove that the Bishop of Rome , was not in those dayes , superior or greater then the King , that sent him : For those wordes of Christ must ever be true , where he saith : The Servant is not greater then his Master , Iohn . 13 16. nor the messenger greater then he that sent him .

And secondly , I say further , that this is a verie good and strong argument , to prove the Supremacie to be , in those dayes , in the Kings of Rome , and not in the Bishops of Rome . For , the King that sendeth any , as his Embassador , is in all common understanding , supposed , and to be supposed , superior unto him that is his Embassador . As when Hiram King of Tyrus sent messengers to King David , 2. Sam 5.11 . 1. Chron. 14 1. 1. King ●● . 2 . 1. Chron. 19.2 . or when Ben●●adad King of Aram or Siria , sent messengers to Ahab King of Israell ; or when King David sent messengers unto the King of the Amm ●ites : In all these cases , and every such like , ( for , Nec in caeteris est contrarium videre , ) were those Kings superior or greater then the messengers , or Embassadors , whom they sent . And therefore when Theodorick sent Iohn Bishop of Rome , as his Embassador unto the Emperor Iustine : and when King Theodatus sent Agapetus Bishop of Rome , as his Embassador to Iustinian the Emperor : It must be confessed ; that these Kings were likewise superiors to the Bishops of Rome , and had the command of them , and not contrarywise that those Bishops of Rome , had the superioritie , or command over those Kings . For amongst men , the Master is wont to send the Servant , and the King his Subject , and the superior his inferior . But where did you ever reade , heare , or know , the Servant to send his Master , or the Subject to send his King and Soveraigne , or the inferior to send his Superior on a message ? I grant that an inferior , or equall may intreate a Superior to doe a businesse for him , and that a King , a Master , or Superior , may goe by his owne consent , or of his owne accord , somewhither , to doe his Subject , Servant , or inferior , a good turne . But it cannot be rightly , and properly said , that any of these inferiors , have sent their Superiors upon their errand , service , message , or embassage . Yea , it would be held verie absoneous and absurd so to speake . But my Adversary , I see , mistaketh the M●l●r proposition of my argument : For it reacheth not so high as heaven , much lesse to the most glorious , incomprehensible , and ineffable Trinitie , blessed for ever , but onely to men upon earth : and not to all men neyther , but onely to Kings and Bishops . Neyther had my Adversary any ust cause or reason , to streach or extend it any further . For the question was onely concerning them , whether of them had the Superioritie , or Supremacie , over the other , in that time , namely , whether the Kings that then raigned over Rome , or , those that were the Bishops thereof . I to prove the Superioritie or Supremacie , to be in the Kings , and not in the Bishops , alledged this for my reason , that the Kings of Rome , did sometimes send the Bishops of Rome , as their Embassadors , to other Princes : So that my Argument upon the whole matter , appeareth to be this . What Kings soever , ( I speake of earthly Kings , ) sent any at any time , as their Embassadors , to other Princes , those Kings were Superior and greater , then those Embassadors whom they sent : But the Kings of Rome , did send the Bishops of Rome , as their Embassadors , to other Princes : Ergo the Kings of Rome , were Superior , and greater then the Bishops of Rome . The Maior is apparant by induction of particulars , & by ordinarie & common experience in the world . The Minor is manifest by Ecclesiasticall historie , which testifieth , That King Theodoricke , sent Iohn Bishop of Rome , Lib Pontific . in Iohan. 1. Et Anact . in Agapeto Diaconus . Platina , as his Embassador to the Emperor Iustine : And that King Theodatus , sent likewise Agapetus Bishop of Rome , as his Embassador , to the Emperor Iustinian : And therefore the conclusion must needes follow , and cannot bee gainsaid . By this time then , mine Adversarie seeth , ( I hope , ) that such is the evident strength of this Argument , as that he with all his wit and learning , will never bee able to make any good answere thereunto .

10 In my former Booke , Cap. 1. pag. 13. 14. 15. I also shewed , that against the title and appellation of Vniversall Bishop , or head of the universall Church , did two Bishops of Rome oppose themselves , namely , Pelagius and Gregory the great , when it was first affected by Iohn the Patriarch , and Bishop of Constantinople : And that neverthelesse afterward , a Bishop of Rome , namely , Boniface the third , got , & obtayned it of Phocas , the Emperor . Hereunto mine Adversarie answereth , ( as Bellarmine likewise doth , ) That this fact of Phocas was but a declaration of that , which was ever before belonging to the Bishops of Rome . What ? Had the former Bishops of Rome , & all the predecessors to Gregorie , this title of universall Bishop peculiarized , & appropriated unto them ? Why then did Gregorie himselfe say ? Greg. lib. 4 Epist , 32.36 38.39 . None of my predecessors Bishops of Rome , ever consented to use this so ungodly a name or why did he say ? That no Bishop of Rome ever tooke upon him , this name of singularitie . Yea , he saith : We the Bishops of Rome , will not receave this honour being offered unto us . Wherefore , it is apparant , that neyther before the times of Gregorie , nor in the times of this Gregory , any of the Bishops of Rome , had this title . Yea , you see this title detested , and rejected , even by and in the Bishops of Rome themselves , aswell as in any other Bishops . So that they did not onely condemne it in Iohn , the Patriarch of Constantinople , but generally in all Bishops whatsoever , as being injurious not onely to other Bishops , but especially to CRIST IESVS , the onely right and true Vniversall Bishop , and the sole , and onely Head of the Vniversall Church . Vniversa sibi tentat ascribere , ( saith Gregory , Greg libr. 4. Epist 36. ) & omnia quae soli uni capiti cohaerent , videlicet , Christo , per elationem pompatici sermonis , ejusdem Christi sibi studet membra subjugare . He goeth about to ascribe all to himselfe , ( saith he , ) and endevoureth by the loftinesse of his pompous title , to subjugate unto himselfe , all the members of Christ , which of right are to cleave to one onely head , which is Christ .

This title then of Vniversall Bishop , or head of the whole Church upon earth , appeareth to be as wicked and as unlawfull in Boniface the third , Bishop of Rome , and his successors ; as it was or would have beene in Iohn Bishop of Constantinople , and his successors , if it had rested in them . For , that which Boniface the third , obtayned of Phocas the Emperor , is the very same thing , which Iohn Bishop of Constantinople , sought to get and obtaine . This ( if any make a doubt of it ) , is apparant . For , first Paulus Diaconus , saith , Hic Phocas , rogante Papa Bonifacio , statuit , sedem Romanae Ecclesiae , ut caput esset omnium Ecclesiarum , Paul warnefrid , Phoca . quia Ecclesia Constantinopolitana primam se omnium Ecclesiarum scribebat . This Emperor Phocas , at the suite of Pope Boniface ordayned , that the Sea of Rome should be the head of all Churches , because the Church of Constantinople wrote her selfe the chiefe of all Churches . Vspergens Chronic. In like sort speaketh Abbas Vspergensis : Post Sabintanū , Bonifacius eligitur ad Pontificatum : cujus rogata , Phocas constituit sedem Romanae , & Apostolicae Ecclesiae , caput esse ommium Ecclesiarum , nam antea , Constantinopolitana se scribebat primam omnium . After Sabinian , ( saith he ) , was Boniface chosen to the Popedome , at whose request , Phocas ordayned , that the Sea of the Romane , and Apostolicke Church , should be the head of all Churches : for , formerly , the Church of Constantinople had written her selfe the chiefe of all . Platin Bonifac. 3 Plantina also saith , that Bonifacius , a Phoca Imperatore , obtinuit , magna tamen contentione : Boniface obtayned this , of Phocas the Empe●●or , but with great contending for it : quem quidem loct●m , Ecclesia Constantinopolitana sibi vendicare conabatur : Which place , ( saith he , ) the Church of Constantinople endevoured to challenge to her selfe . Blondus . Blondus also saith . Ad hu●us Bonif●●● petitionem , Phocas Antistitem Romanum , principem Episcoporum omnium dixit : Nauclerus , vol 2 Generat . 21. At the suite of this Boniface , did Phocas affirme the Bishop of Rome , to be the Prince of all Bishops . And Nauclerus likewise saith , that , Bonifacium insolentiam Patriarchae Constantinopolitani , 〈…〉 appellantis , compes●●t : Phocas cuim Pontificis suasione , publica , a● ad unt●ersum orbem dimissa sanctione , constituit , ut Romanae Ecclesiae , Romanoque Pontifici , omnes orbis Ecclesiae obedirent . Boniface repressed the insolencie of the Patriarch of Constantinople , calling himselfe Oecumenicall , or universall Bishop : For , Phoca● , by the perswasion of the Pope , ordayned by a publicke Decree , sent to the whole world , that all the Churches of the world , should be obedient to the Church of Rome . By all these testimonies then , you perceave , that what Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople , did formerly desire , and seeke after , that did Boniface the third , Bishop of Rome , obtaine of Phocas the Emperor : and consequently , that title of universall Bishop , must needes be , as hatefull and damnable in Boniface the third , Bishop of Rome , and his successors , as it was , or would have beene , by the judgement of Pelagius and Gregorie , in Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople , and his successors . As also I trust you now sufficiently great , how fond and false an evasion , that is , which my Adversarie , and Bellarmine also useth . For , if this granting of the title of the universall Bishop to Boniface the third , had beene , ( as they say , ) nothing else , but a declaration of the thing , ever before acknowledged to belong to the Bishops of Rome : What cause , or neede was there , for Boniface the third , Bishop of Rome , to have beene such an earnest , and importunate surer for the obtayning of it , at this time ? Or , why did those two Patriarches , the one of Constantinople , the other of Rome , strive and contend , at this time , so much for it ? Or why was Phocas himselfe so hardly , and not without much a doe , induced to yeeld it to Rome , rather then to Constantinople , which was then the seate of the Emperors ? Or if it were a thing ever before acknowledged , to be due , to the Bishops of Rome , why did those two Bishops of Rome , so hotely and eagerly oppose themselves , against it , utterly detesting and condemning it , not onely in Iohn Bishop of Constantinople , but generally in all Bishops whosoever ? as their speeches , arguments , and reasons doe declare . Yea , how can it be true , that the Bishops of Rome had evermore this title , when Gregorie the great , Bishop of Rome , himselfe testifieth the cleane contrarie : saying , ( as you heard before ) , that none of his predecessors , Bishops of Rome , did at any time consent to use so ungodly a name : and that no Bishop of Rome at any time , tooke upon him , this name of singularitie : and , that they the Bishops of Rome , could not take it , though it were offered to them . Is it not then a point of grosse impudencie in Papists still to denie such apparant and manifest truths ?

But afterward againe in a scoffing manner , hee saith , that I give notice that I am a Logician , by affirming in the 11. pag. of the first part of my Booke , that the effect of the negative clause in the Oath of Supremacie , is included in the former affirmative clause of the same Oath . The affirmative clause , ( saith he , ) of the Oath , is that the King is the Supreme Governor in his owne Dominions : The negative clause is , that no forraine Prince , Person , Prelate , &c. And so he goeth on , mispending his time , and confuting the imagination and devise of his owne braine . For , the affirmative clause in the Oath , is not , as he imperfectly and lamely relateth it , but it is this : That the King , is the onely Supreme Governor of this Realme , and of all other his Highnesse Dominions and Countries , aswell in all Spirituall , or Ecclesiasticall things or causes , as Temporall . The negative clause followeth , and is this ; That no forraine Prince , Person , Prelate , State , or Potentate , hath or ought to have , any jurisdiction , power , superioritie , preheminence , or authoritie Ecclesiasticall , or Spirituall , within this Realme . This word , ( Onely , ) in the affirmative clause , hath he left out : which if he had added together with all the rest of the wordes , that follow in that affirmative clause : he would very easily have found that to be true , which I wrote , namely , that the effect of the negative clause , is included in the former affirmative . For , he that affirmeth the King , to be the onely Supreme Governor within his owne Dominions , & that in all things , or causes Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall , aswell as temporall : doth , in that speech , exclude every forraine Prince , person , Prelate , State , or Potentate , from having any supreme governement , or any government at all , without his leave and licence , within his Dominions . Yea , it is very evident , that the former affirmative clause includeth the negative clause , and more . For the negative clause excludeth forrain Princes , persons , Prelates , States & Potentates , only from Ecclesiasticall , or Spirituall Authoritie : but the former affirmative excludeth them from authoritie in all things or causes both temporall & spirituall . Againe , you see that the negative clause extendeth onely to forraine persons : but the affirmative clause extendeth to any persons whosoever , whether forraine , or domesticall .

Thirdly , the negative clause excludeth forraine persons , from having any jurisdiction , power , superioritie , preheminence , or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall , or spirituall , within this Realme . But , the former affirmative clause , extendeth not only to this Realme , or that Realme , in particular , but generally to all his Majesties Realms , Dominions , & Countries . So that the former affirmative clause , in the Oath , appeareth to be much more generall , and of a farre larger extent , then the negative is . And therefore , I hope , I spake truely , and within compasse , when I said , ( though in a parenthesis ) , that the effect of the negative clause , was included in the former affirmative . I did not say , ( as mine Adversarie supposeth me to hold ; ) that the Regall power includeth the Sacerdotall , or Episcopall . This is but his owne dreame & imagination : in the confutation whereof , he laboureth in vaine . For , neyther I , nor any of the Protestants , doe hold that opinion , but contrariewise doe hold them to be things distinct , as is before declared . But because he will needes carpe at my Logicke , when he hath no cause : let other men judge , what a great Logician he is , whilst he argueth thus . The Regall power includeth not the Sacerdotall : Ergo the affirmative clause in the Oath of SUPREMACIE , includeth not the negative clause in the same Oath .

Hitherto , then you see , that my Adversarie , ( notwithstanding all his storishes , braggs , and bravadoes ) , hath shewed himselfe to be , not onely a punie Lawyer , ( as he confesseth himselfe to be , ) but a punie Logician also , & most of all , a punie Divine : and that he hath not beene able , to make any good Answere , or to refell and confute any one Argument contayned in this first Chapter of my former Booke , concerning the Supremacie : and yet hath he also left a great part of that Chapter unanswered . Neyther hath he made throughout his whole discourse , and pleading , so much as one good argument , to prove his Clients cause , that is , the Popes supremacie : though he purposed , and laboured to doe it . Where , is it not a mervaile ; that he being a Lawyer , and a Subject to our Soveraigne Lord , the KING , will date neverthelesse admitte of such a Client , as the Pope is , and of his cause , which he knoweth before hand , to be condemned , by the Lawes , and Statutes of the Realme , and which he now may see , ( if hee saw it not before , ) to be also condemned by the Lawes and Statutes of God himselfe , and by all the most ancient Ecclesiasticall Records . But , if hee be not ashamed of such a Client and his cause : his Client , ( I suppose , ) will be ashamed of him , and entertaine him no longer , to pleade for him , unlesse he could doe it better . And yet indeede , when his Clients cause , is foule , & naught , ( as here it appeareth to be , ) what Lawyer , be he never so learned , or what Divine , be hee never so profound , is able to justifie it , or to make it good ? Notwithstanding his demurrer therefore , and notwithstanding that by this his plea , his purpose was to arrest and stay mens judgements , I trust they will all , now , ( no cause appearing to the contrarie , ) proceede without any further delay , to give their sentence against his Client , & for & in the behalfe of these two most worthy & Peerles Princes , who be the complaynants against him : namely , for Christ IESVS , in their acknowledging , and publishing him , onely to be the onely universall Bishop , supreme Pastor , and head of the whole Church Militant upon Earth , aswell as of the Triumphant in Heaven : and for the King , in declaring and publishing him , under God , to be the onely Supreme Governor , over all manner of persons , and in all kinde of causes , aswell Ecclesiasticall as Civill , within his Dominions . Neyther doe I doubt , but all mens judgements , whensoever upon good and well advised deliberation they shall please to give them , will passe accordingly . In the meane time , let us goe one to the second Chapter , & see if he have any better successe in that , then he hath found in the former .

Concerning the second Chapter .

IN this second Chapter of my former Booke , my Adversarie supposeth , that my maine scope and purpose , was , to prove our Church , that is , the Church of the Protestants , to have beene , in the Apostles times : But never was there , ( saith he , ) poore Assertion so miserably mangled . And true it is indeede , that it is miserably mangled , and cut in pieces . But , by whom ? namely , by himselfe . For , my Assertion is not so short , as he relateth it , nor is to end where he maketh it to end , but is of a longer , and larger extent : and being produced not by parts or pieces , but wholy and intirely , ( as it ought , ) it is this ( viz. ) That our Church was in the Apostles dayes , and in all times and ages since , howsoever , or , notwitstanding , that Poperie did as an infection , or corruption grow unto it : the meaning & true sence whereof , is no more , but , that the growing of Poperie , it being but as an infection or corruption to the Church , is no impediment , or argument to the contrarie , but that our Church had a being in the Apostles dayes , and in all succeeding times and ages , that notwithstanding . This will the better appeare , if you take the whole Proposition or assertion , and turne it into a Question . For , then the Question will not be , as mine Adversary maketh it : ( viz. ) whether our Church were in the Apostles dayes : for that compriseth not the whole Proposition , but is onely a part , or piece of it . Neyther can that be any more the Question , then whether it were in the succeeding and aftertimes , and ages . But the Question will bee , as I have signified before , viz. Whether the growth and comming in of Poperie , as an infection or corruption to the Church , did hinder , or was any such obstacle , or impediment as that , by reason thereof , our Church had no being at all , in the Apostles dayes , nor in the dayes , and times succeeding . It is true , that if I had said , that our Church was , in the Apostles times , and had gone no further : it had beene an absolute and direct affirmation of our Church to have beene in those dayes . But when I goe further , and say , that our Church was in the Apostles dayes , notwithstanding that the seeds of Popery began then to be sowen : in this speech , I doe not absolutely , and simply affirme , that our Church was then , but that it was then , notwithstanding that the seeds of Poperie began then to be sowen : that is , the beginning and growth of Poperie , was no obstacle , impediment , or argument against the being of our Church in those dayes . As likewise if I say , that the conveyance made to Iohn at Stile is good , notwithstanding that there was no liverie of seisin made upon it : this is no direct affirmation , that his conveyance is simply good , to all intents and purposes : but , that it is good , notwithstanding this exception , that there was no liverie and seisin made : that is , the not making of liverie of seisin , is no obstacle or impediment , to hinder the goodnesse of it . In like sort , if I say , that K. Salomon was a saved soule , notwithstanding that by the enticement of his wives , he became an Idolater : this is no absolute or direct affirmation , that he was a saved soule . But that he was a saved soule , notwithstanding that reason or allegation : that is to say , his committing of Idolatrie , upon the enticement of his wives , is no such obstacle , or proofe to the contrarie , but that he might be a saved soule , that reason or objection notwithstanding . As againe , if I say , that my Adversarie is a good Grecian , or a good Hebritian , notwithstanding that he hath not shewed it in his Answere : this is no direct affirmation , that hee is eyther a good Grecian or a good Hebritian : but the sence and meaning of that speech is , that his not shewing of skill in Greeke or Hebrew in his Answere , is no obstacle , or argument to the contrarie , but that he may be a good Grecian , or a good Hebritian , that nothwithstanding . Wherefore if mine Adversarie would have opposed himselfe , against that proposition or assertion of mine before mentioned , he should have shewed & proved , ( if he had beene able , ) that the comming in , and growth of Poperie , was such an impediment or obstacle , as that by reason thereof our Church could haue no being in the Apostles dayes , or in the times , or ages that succeeded : which because he hath not done , he hath spent his breath , and talked idly , and in vaine , and to no purpose . And yet hee seemeth to glorie and insult over me , that my conclusion & assertion , being ( as he saith ) , that our Church was in the Apostles times , I brought not so much as one argument , there to prove it : how much more cause now have I , ( if I were so disposed ) , to glorie and insult over him , who by his cutting , curtalling and mangling my assertion , and not taking it wholy and intirely , ( as of right he should , ) hath utterly mistaken the Question , & not answered one word to that which was the Question indeede . For the question to be deduced , out of this entier Proposition , not being ( as he hath strangely mistaken ) , whether our Church was in the Apostles times : nor yet , whether it were in the succeeding , and aftertimes . But , whether Poperie were such an obstacle , or impediment , as that it did cause that our Church could not , by reason thereof , have any being at all , eyther in the Apostles times , or in the times and ages that succeeded : To this it is that I answered and adressed my speech in that second Chapter : and to this Question also it is , that mine Adversarie should have answered , and adressed his speech , if he would have spoken materially and to the purpose .

And yet even this verie assertion , that our Church ( that is men beleeving and professing the same Faith and Religion , that we doe ) , was in the Apostles times , and by them taught and approved , is a thing evidently declared , not in one Chapter alone of my former Booke , ( for one Chapter alone , would not suffice , for so many points , and positions , as did to such a matter belong ) but in all the severall Chap●ers and whole Contents of my Booke put together . And the truth of it may summarily , & briefely thus appeare , namely , by that excellent rule , and fundamentall ground , Tertul. prescript ●avers . haeret . which Tertullian giveth . For , hee saith , that even those Churches , quae licet nullum ex Apostolis , vel Apostolicis authorem suum proferant , ( ut multo posteriores , quae denique quotidie instituuntur , ) tamen in eadem fide conspirantes , non minus Apostolicae d●putantur , pro consanguinitate doctrinae : which cannot bring any of the Apostles , or Apostolicke men for their authors , ( as those that be much later , & such as are begun every day , ) yet agreeing with them in the same faith , are for this consanguinitie , or agreement in doctrine , held to be no lesse Apostolicke , then the rest . Againe he saith : Ipsa doctrina eorum , Tertul. traescrip . advers. haeret . cap. 32 , cum Apostolica comparata , ex diversitate , & contrarietate sua , pronunciabit , neque Apostoli alicujus authoris esse , neque Apostolici . Their verie doctrine it selfe being compared with the Apostolicke , by the diversitie and contrarietie that is betweene them , will pronounce , that it had for the Author , neyther any Apostle , nor any man that was Apo●tolicall . From this rule , and fundamentall ground , I deduce , and make two Arguments , ( the one for our Church , the other against the Church of Rome . ) For our Church my Argument is this . That Church which holdeth the same Faith , doctrine , & Religion , that the Apostles taught in their dayes , is Apostolicall : But our Church , that is the Church of the Protestants , holdeth the same Faith , doctrine and Religion , that the Apostles taught in their : Ergo our Church , that is , the Church of the Protestants , is Apostolicall . The Maior is verie evident of it selfe , and by the testimonie also of Tertullian , neyther can it be denied . The Minor is also evident by conferring , and comparing our Faith , doctrine , & Religion , with the Apostolicall writings , & the rest of the Canonicall Scriptures . And it is also manifest , by the whole Contents of my former Booke , whether I referre you , for the proofe of it , ( if any make doubt of it : ) And therefore the conclusion must bee granted . On the other side , against the Church of Rome , from that ground also , I thus frame my argument . That Church which holdeth a Religion , Faith , and doctrine , differing or contrarie to that which was taught by the Apostles in their times , is not Apostolicall : But the Popish Church , holdeth a Religion , Faith , and doctrine , differing , or contrarie to that , which was taught by the Apostles in their times , ( as is apparant , if you compare them together , examining the severall , and particular Positions , in these points of Controversie , by the writings of the Apostles , & the rest of the Canonicall Scriptures , & as is also shewed at large in my former book ; whether I likewise referre you , for the proofe of this Minor Proposition : ) And therefore the Popish Church is not Apostolicall . But mine Adversarie taketh here exception to our Church , affirming it in three points to be hereticall . First in the point of Iustification . For , he saith , it was the heresie of the Symonians and Eunomians , to hold Iustification in Gods sight , by grace , and by faith onely , as the Protestants doe . And , that S. Augustine also affirmeth it to be an error , that sprung up even in the Apostles dayes . But touching the Symonians , they held , Ir●n libr. 1. c. 20 ( as Irenaeus declareth , ) , That they were to be saved by the grace of Simon Magus , their sect Master , whom they make their God and Saviour . The Protestants hold no such abominable thing , but contrarywise hold , that they are to be saved by the grace of CHRIST . What ? Is it all one with Papists , to be saved by Simons grace , and by the grace of CHRIST ? As for the Eunomians , such was their doctrine of Faith , as that they rejected , or made no reckoning of good workes at all . Aug. hares . 54. Yea , they held , ( as S. Augustine sheweth , ) Quod nihil homini obesset quorumlibet perpetratio peccatorum . That the committing of any sinnes whatsoever , did not hurt a man . The Protestants teach no such wicked , and damnable doctrine , but cleane contrarywise , doe teach , that the Faith that justifieth , and saveth a man , is not a dead but a lively Faith , that is , such as is accompanied with good works , and with a godly conversation : although , Ierem. 23.6 . Ierem. 33.16 . 2. Cor. 5.21 . Rom. 10 4. Rom. 9.30.31 32 Rom. 3.14 . Ioh 3.14 15 16. Iohn . 1.12 . in the act of our justification in Gods sight and censure , it is Faith alone , and not the workes , that is , the hand or instrument , whereby wee apprehend , or receave CHRIST IESVS , who is indeede our righteousnesse . As the eye , in respect of the rest of the members , wherewith it is accompanied , is not alone , yet in respect of the power and facultie of seeing , it is sole and alone . And , as , in fire likewise , there is both heare , and light , and the heate is not alone , but accompanied with the light : and yet it is the heate onely , and not the light , that warmeth the bodie . So in a man justified , there is Faith , and good workes accompanying it , and in respect of the good workes wherewith it is accompanied , it is not sole , and alone , but yet , in the Act and point of Iustification in Gods sight , as it apprehendeth Christ our righteousnesse , it is sole and alone , good works having no part with it , in that action . As for that which is alledged out of S. Augustine , I answered it in my former Booke , and now I answere it once againe , Aug. de fide , & oper. cap. 14. or rather S. Augustine himselfe answereth it , whilst he sheweth , That the error which sprung up in the Apostles dayes , was of such , as held Faith onely , to be sufficient to salvation , although they did no good works at all , but lived wickedly , dissolutely , lewdly : which is indeede , an error , and a grosse error , Galat. 5.6 . Iam. 2 14. 1. Pet● 29.11 12 2 Pet 1 10. 1. Iohn 3.10 . and which the Protestants , with S. Augustine , with S. Paul , with S. Iames , with S. Peter , with S. Iohn , & with all the rest of the sacred Scriptures , doe likewise utterly condemne .

The second point wherein he supposeth heresie in our Church , is concerning their Popish Purgatorie . It is true , that we denie it . Neyther are the Papists able to prove the deniall of it to be eyther heresie or error : My Adversarie saith , That Luther , Calvine , & others , did likewise denie it ; & what of that ? was it therefore heresie ? Or , in what Church was it censured and condemned to be heresie . If by any , he must say , it was by his owne , the Popish Church , which condemneth indeede , not only that , but all other doctrines and Positions of the Protestants , wherein they differ from them , be they never so true . But it is proved in my former Booke , Col●s . 2.19 That Papal Rome , is the whore of Babylon , and that the Popish Church hath not Christ , but Antichrist to be the head , and to rule , and raigne over it . Neyther is it mine opinion alone , that the Pope of Rome , the head , and ruler thereof , is the grand Antichrist , ( and consequently his Church , the false , & Antichristian Church , ) but it is the opinion , and position of all sound Protestants likewise : as their many and sundrie learned Works , written in defence of that Protestant Position against the Papists , doe plentifully , and at large declare . Now then , is it any mervaile , or any matter , that the false , adulterate , and Antichristian Church , condemneth the right beleeving , Orthodoxe , and true Christian Church , and her Positions ? Yea , in this point , against their Purgatorie , did the Apostolicke , Primitive , and most ancient Church beleeve , as wee doe . For , S. Paul saith , 2. Cor. 5.6 8. Thil. 1.23 . of all Gods people , That whilst they are in the bodie , they are absent from the Lord : and that when they goe out of the bodie , they are present with the Lord . And so holdeth S. Cyprian , Cyprian . de mortalitat . sect. 2 . ●d●t . 159● . That the servants of God , then have peace , and then enjoy free and quiet rest : And that being drawen out from the stormes of this world , they arrive at the haven of their everlasting habitation and securitie . Againe he saith , Ad refrigerium justi vocantur , ad supplicium rapiuntur injusti . The righteous are called to a refreshing : Ibidem . sect 11. the unrighteous are haled to torment . Ibidem . sect. 14. In somuch that hee saith further , concerning godly persons , when they die , that Nec accipiendas esse hic atras vestes , quando 〈◊〉 ibi indumenta alba iam sumpseriut : For them , blacke mourning garments are not to be worne here , because they have there alreadie put on white rayment . Iustin . respons. ad Orthodox . quaest. 75. Iustine Martyr likewise saith : That after the departure of the soule out of the bodie , there is , presently , made a difference betwixt the just , and the unjust . For , the soules of the just goe to Paradise , where they have the comerce and sight of Angels , and Archangels , &c: The soules of the unjust , to the places in Hell . Hilar. in Psal 2. S. Hillarie also observeth , out of that which is mentioned in the Gospell , concerning the Rich-man & Lazarus , that as soone as this life is ended , everie one , ( without delay ) , goeth eyther to Abrahams bos●me , or to the place of torment : and in this place , is reserved , till the day of judgement . S. Ambrose also teachech , That death is a certaine haven to them , Ambros de bono mortis cap. 4. who being tossed in the great sea of this world , desire the station of a safe rest . And therefore he saith further , That whereas fooles doe feare death as the chiefe of evills : Wise men doe desire it , as a rest after labours , and an end of their evills . S Basil saith , Basil . procem . in regular fusius disputat . This present world , is the time of repentance , the other of retribution , this of working , that of rewarding : this of patient suffering , that of receaving comfort . Gregory Nazianzen also in his Funeral orations , hath many sayings to this purpose , Greg. N●z . Orat. 9. ad Iustanum , & orat 42 in Pasch. & orat 15 in ●lagam grandinis . and was so farre from supposing any Purgatorie , or purging prepared for men after their death , that hee plainely denieth , That after the night of this present life , there is any purging to be expected . And therefore he giveth us all good counsell , telling us , That it is better to be corrected , and purged now , then to be sent unto torments there , where the time of punishing is , and not of purging . And concerning the third point , wherein he objecteth heresie : It is true , that Popish Priests cannot forgive sinnes , because they be not the Ministers of Christ , but of Antichrist : and therefore , for any to resort , or to goe unto them for absolution , or forgivenesse of sinnes , must needs rather increase their sinnes , then take away any . The authoritie neverthelesse of Christ his Ministers , to binde and loose , and to remitte , and retaine sinnes , we denie not , but affirme and maintaine against the Novatians , or whatsoever other heretickes ; and therefore most injurious is my Adversarie , & other Papists , in charging us with the heresie of the Novatians , Micah . 7.18 . Esai . 43. ●5 . Mar. 2.7 Luk. 5.21 . Revel. 3.7 . in that point . Howbeit , it is not an absolute , but a Ministeriall & limited power , and authoritie , which the Ministers of Christ have herein received . For , to forgive sinnes properly and absolutely , is a priviledge & prerogative proper unto God . And therefore did Gregory the great , Greg exposit. 2. Psalm . Poenit. ( Bishop of Rome , ) say : Quis enim potest peccata dimittere , nisi solus Deus ? For who can forgive sinnes , but God alone ? The power of releasing sins , ( saith also Radulphus Ardens , Radulph . Ard. homil Dominic . 1 post Pasch. ) belongeth to God alone : But the Ministerie , ( which is also improperly called a power , ) hee hath granted to his substitutes , who after their manner , doe binde , and absolve , that is , doe declare that men are bound or absolved . For God doth first inwardly absolve the sinner , by compunction : & then the Priest outwardly , by giving the sentence , doth declare , that he is absolved . Peter Lombard also , Master of the Sentences , Pet. Lombard . lib. 4. Sentent . distinct . 18. E.F. saith , That God alone doth forgive and retayne sinnes , and yet hath he given power of binding & loosing unto his Church . But he bindeth and looseth one way , and the Church another . For , he onely by himselfe forgiveth sinnes , who both clenseth the soule , from inward blot , & looseth it from the debt of everlasting death , & this he hath not granted unto Priests : to whom notwithstanding , he hath given the power of binding and loosing , that is to say , of declaring men to be bound or loosed . Est ergo in universis servientibus , non dominium , Optat. libr. 5. sed ministerium . There is therefore , ( saith Optatus , ) in all the officers or servants , not a dominion , but a ministerie . Behold , Ambr de Spir. Sanct. 〈◊〉 . ● . c. 10 ( saith S. Ambrose , ) that , by the holy Ghost , sinnes are forgiven , & men , to the forgivenesse of sinnes , bring but their Ministerie : they exercise not any authoritie or power . The power of forgiving sinnes , ( saith S. Basil , ) is not given to Christs Ministers absolutely : Basil . regul. Brevior . quast. 25. but upon the obedience of the penitent , & his consent with him , that hath the care of his foule . Yea , ( saith S. Ambrose , ) neyther Angell , nor Archangell , can , Ambros . Epist. 28 ad Theod. Imp. nor the Lord himselfe , when we have sinned , doth release us , unlesse we bring repentance with us . Christ his Ministers therefore doe not , nor ought to declare , or pronounce remission and forgivenesse of sinnes to any , but to such , as Christ their Lord & Master , by the Tenor of his word , hath warranted remission of sinnes unto . For if they doe otherwise , it is not ratified in heaven , which they doe upon earth . But all these three points , have I handled in my former Booke , where , aswell as here , they appeare to be Apostolicall , and Orthodoxe truths , and not hereticall , or erroneous opinions . Now then let all equall men judge , how well and wisely , this Quidam homo , or quoddam animal Anomolon , & Pseudonymon , this Adversarie of mine , dealeth with me , whilst he termeth me , as he pleaseth , and resembleth me to a Phripiers Prentice , whose office is , ( saith he , speaking like a man of skil in that arte , or occupation , ) to goe from one Corner unto another , searching old Ragges to line new clothes . For I have borrowed , ( saith he , ) the shreds of my Religion from Simon Magus , the Novatians , and other heretickes . How much this man is deceaved , and mistaken , doth now , ( I hope ) , more then sufficiently appeare , by that which is before spoken . Neyther indeed is it ours , but his , the Popish Religion , that is thus patched , and pieced of many and sundrie errors and heresies , being therein like a beggars cloake consisting of many ragges and shreds sowed together : as diverse Protestants , and amongst the rest , Doctor Willet in his Tetrastylon Papismi , and that learned , and Reverend Bishop , Doctor Morton , in his Catholicke Appeale for the Protestants , being an Answere to Brerely the Priest , have declared at large , and in the many and sundrie particulars thereof .

Notwithstanding therefore whatsoever mine Adversarie hath said , or can say to the contrarie , it is apparant , by the consanguinitie and agreement in Faith and doctrine , which our Church hath with the Apostolicall writings , that it was in the Apostles times , and by them approved . And this being the undoubted true Church , and builded upon that inuincible and unruinable Rocke , Christ Iesus , against which the gates of Hell shall never prevaile : must it not needes be supposed to have also a continuance in all succeeding times and ages , even to the worlds end , notwithstanding that Poperie , or whatsoever other errors , or heresies did grow up with it , like Tares among the good Corne ? Yea , that our Church , ( that is , people beleeving and professing the Faith and Religion , that we doe , ) was in the times , and ages succeeding the Apostles , even untill the dayes of the grand Antichrist , and during all the time also , even of the grand antichrist his raigne , is likewise declared in my former booke , not only , in this second Chapter of the first part , but chiefely and specially in the second Chapter of the second part of it : where I have set downe this Position , and proved it , that the Church is not so visible , as to be alwayes , & at all times openly seene & knowne to the wicked and persecuting world . And for proofe hereof , Aug. in Psal. 1● De Baptis contr. Donat●st . lib. 6. cap 4. I alledged S. Augustine , who therefore compareth the Church to the M●one , which is often obscured , and hid : yea he confesseth and teacheth , That the Church may sometime be so hidden , as that the verie members thereof shall not know one another . It is true , that the men whereof the Church consisteth , are alwayes visible , and may be seene , as being men : but the Faith and Religion they beleeve and hold , is not so visible , as to be alwayes , seene , discovered , & known to the wicked and malignant world , although sometime it be ; which point you may see there further declared . And therefore they be not Chymicall arguments , ( as my Adversarie , in his Chymericall and Alchymisticall Divinitie surmiseth ) , but solide and sound proofes , that I bring to declare , that the true Church is sometimes visible , and to be seene of this wicked world , and sometimes invisible , Revel. 9.13 . Revel. 10.1.2.10.11 . and not to be seene of it , that is to say , it is sometimes a Patent , and sometimes a Latent Church : of which sort because the Papists , will not grant their Church to be , but will have it alwayes visible , & evermore splendently appearing to the eyes of the world , it is a plaine , & demonstrative argument against them , that therefore theirs cannot be the true Church . I further shewed in this second Chapter , that the true Church , planted by the Apostles , was afterward by little , and little , and by degrees to grow corrupted , and to continue in those her errors , corruptions and deformities , for a long time , even till after the sixt Angell had begun to blow the Trumpet , according to the prediction & Prophecie thereof in the Revelation of S. Iohn : which Prophecie because it is found to agree with our Church , and that it cannot be made to agree with theirs , which they will not grant to be , capable of any corruption , or error : It thereupon also followeth , that not theirs , but ours , must needs be the true Church , planted by the Apostles . These arguments I here the rather mention , that my adversary might see , That the blast of the sixt Angels trumpet , did not blow away all the arguments , which I should have brought for my purpose , as he scoffingly speaketh , being not able otherwise , or in other then a scoffing sort , to answere them . For what better argument can there be to prove our Church , and to disprove & confute theirs , then this , that ours doth agree with the predictions & prophecies contayned in the sacred and Canonicall Scriptures , and theirs neyther doth , nor can be made to agree with them ,

And here also falleth to the ground , that Paradoxe , and untrue opinion , which he holdeth , that one error in the Church , overthroweth the whole Church : making it to be no true Church , but onely an imaginarie Church . It is true , 1 Cor. 5.6 . that S. Paul saith , That a little leaven , leaveneth the whole lumpe of dow . But hee doth not say , that , it utterly overthroweth , nullifieth , and extinguisheth it yea even this Church of Corinth , wherein this leaven was , ( by reason of that wicked incestuous man permitted to remaine , unseperated , 2. Cor. 1.2 . & unexcommunicated amongst them , to the indangering of others by his example , ) was neverthelesse the Church of God : and so doth S. Paul expressely call it , notwithstanding that error amongst them . Againe in the same Church of Corinth there were also Contentions amongst them , 1. Cor. 15 12. 1. Cor. 1.11 . 1. Cor. 3.3 . 1. Cor. 11 18.19 . 1. Corinth. 1.2 . and envying , and strife , and divisions , yea , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , schismata , & haereses , schismes , & heresies : and yet was it a true Church of God , all these errors and faults notwithstanding , as S. Paul declareth . The Church of Ephesus , Rev. 1.2.2 . ●4 5 was likewise a true Church of God , & for sundrie things much commended : yet had God some thing against her , because she had left her first love , Remember therefore , ( saith he , ) from whence thou art fallen , and repent , Revel. ●2 12.13.14.15 . & doe the first workes , &c. The Church of Pergamus was also a true Church of God : Yet I have , ( saith God , ) a few things against thee , because thou hast there , them that maintaine the doctrine of Balaam , &c. And them that maintaine the doctrine of the Nicolaytans , which thing I hate . The Church of Thiatyra , Rev. 2.18.19.20 was likewise a true Church of God : and for many things also , much commended : Notwithstanding ( saith God ) I have a few things against thee , because thou sufferest the woman Iesabell , which calleth her selfe a Prophetesse , to teach and deceave my servants , &c. By all which , you see , that one error , or one fault in a Church , doth not therefore prove it to be no Church , or no true Church . Yea , it appeareth that a Church , and a true Church may bee , though divers defaults , and errors , bee in it , which bee not fundamentall . How much then doth mine Adversarie abuse that Text of S. Iames : where hee saith : Qui deficit in uno , factus est omnium reus : Iames. 2.10.11 . Whosoever shall keepe the whole law , and yet fayle in one point , he is guilty of all . For he that said , thou shalt not commit adulterie , said also thou shalt not kill : now , though thou commit no adultery , yet if thou killest , thou art a transgressor of the law . For , what S. Iames meaneth by this , that he which faileth or offendeth in breaking though but one of Gods Commandements , Galat. 3.10 . Deut. 27.26 . is guilty of all : himselfe here sheweth , when he saith , that he is thereby become a transgressor of the law : and consequently guiltie of the curse inflicted , by the sentence of the Law , upon every one that continueth not in all things , that are written in the booke of the Law to doe them . So that he is guiltie of all , not that he hath broken all the Commandements , by breaking only of one , nor that he which breaketh onely one , shall be punished in hell , asmuch , and with as great a measure of torments , as hee that carelesly breaketh them all , but that by this breaking , but of one Commandement , he hath offended the Majestie of the Law-giver , incurred his displeasure , and made himselfe aswell lyable to the curse of the law , that is , hath deserved to suffer eternall torments , ( though not in so great , & high a degree , and measure ) , as if he had broken them all . He therefore much wrongeth this Text , when he applyeth it to prove , that it cannot be a true Church , which hath any error in it , or that he that fayles in one point of Religion , hath only an imaginarie Religion , and no true Religion in him . What ? was the Church wherein S. Cyprian lived , no true Church , Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. in t●e greeke , and cap. 5. latin . or was S. Cyprian no true Christian , or had he no true Religion in him , because he held the error of Rebaptization ? Or were none of those , true Churches , nor had any of them any true Religion in them , which held the Chiliasticke error , or error of the Millenaries ? Or were S. Augustine , S. Ierome , or any of the rest of the ancient Fathers therefore no true Christians , or had they onely an imaginarie , and no true Religion in them , because of some error they held ? Yea , he may aswell conclude out of this Text , ( if he make no care , nor conscience , to abuse it , ) that everie one whosoever that erreth & fayleth in any point , eyther of doctrine , 1. Iohn . 1.8 . or manners , or that sinneth in any sort , by breaking any one of Gods Commandements , is onely an imaginarie and no true Christian at all : Whereupon would follow this grosse absurditie , and untruth , that there were then no true Christians at all in the whole world , because there be none but have some sinne , or other , in them . It is true , Ephes. 4.3.4.5 . &c. that there is but one true Faith , and right Religion , and that we should all endevour to observe and keepe it , as likewise we ought all to endevour , so much as is possible , to keepe all & everie one of Gods Commandements : but if by reason of the frayltie , and imperfection , that is in all men , any Church doe erre in some one thing ; or any man doe erre , , sinne , or offend , in some one point , you see by the premisses , that no such inference can be made , that therefore it is no true Church , or therefore he is no true Christian , or hath no good , nor true Religion in him , because of that one sinne , or error committed . All which neverthelesse I speake not , to justifie , or defend any errors , in any Church , or any sinne , transgression , or fault in any person , nor yet as though he could justly taxe our true Christian Church with any error in Faith , or doctrine : but onely to shew him his owne error , and the fault of his owne idle , & brainesicke opinion . Whereunto also may be adjoyned another Paradoxe or strange opinion of his and not onely his , for it is the opinion also of the Rhemists , and other Papists , where they hold , that the blasphemie , or sinne against the holy Ghost , is remissible , & may be forgiven : which is directly , and cleane contrarie to the expresse words of Christ Iesus himselfe , declaring that the sinne against the Father , and the Sonne , is remissible , Math. 12 31.32 Luk 12.10 Mark . 3.28 29. and may be forgiven : But the sinne against the holy Ghost ( saith he ) shall not be forgiven , neyther in this world , nor in the world to come . And S. Marke relateth it thus , That he which committeth that sinne , shall never have forgivenesse , but is culpable of eternall damnation . Now then , let all men judge , whether of these , we should beleeve ? namely , whether Christ , or the Papists , in this case ? Lastly , he falleth into a consideration , what sinne it is , that I committed , in making and setting forth my Booke ; & distinguishing sinne into three sorts , ( viz. ) some of Frailtie , some of Ignorance , & some of Malice : he freeth me of that of frailty , and of that of malice , and therefore concludeth , that it was a sinne of ignorance . Thus out of his ignorance , ( for I hope there is no malice in him , ) he argueth ex non concessis . For how doth hee prove it to be any sinne at all , to penne such a Booke , and to set it forth ? Ipse dixit , is all his proofe . What ? Is it a sinne to speake or write , in defence of Gods truth & religion ? Yea is it not ( cleane contrariewise ) a sinne , and a very great , & most fearefull sin for my Adversary , to write ( as he doth ) against God , his truth , & religion , & against his Church , & people , & against the King also in the point of his Supremacie , & against the Lawes , & Statutes of the Realme also , ( which establish those two points , for which I write and speake ) , and all for defence of the whore of Babylon , & of that man of sinne , the grand Antichrist ? Is not this a sinne meete for him to repent of ? This his great sinne therefore , & all other wicked workes , & wayes of blind Poperie , I would wish him to forsake in time , Ephes. 5 8. & to become & walke As one of the children of light , which if he desire to doe , ( as I trust he doth , ) he must then with the Psalmist , make not his owne , Psalm . 119.105 . or other mens pleasures , but Gods will , & word to be the Lanterne unto his feete , and the light unto his path , & thereby must he be directed , Esa. 8.20 . both for points of doctrine & for life & conversation also . For if any doe not , or speake not according to this word , 1. Io. 1.5.6 . it is because ( as the Scriptures teach ) they have not that light in them , which they should have . It is true , which he saith , That Christ , the supreme Iudge of Heaven , & Earth , will most certainely come to judgement , and will judge most justly . But it were good he would remember withall how , Iohn . 12 48. Rom. 2.16 . & by what rule , he will judge ? namely , that he will judge according to his owne word , & Gospell . For , according to that his Word , & Gospell , it is , that hee will judge us all , in the last day , as himselfe , & his true & faithfull Apostle S. Paul , doe both assure us .

In the meane time then , can there be any better course taken , or any better wisedome shewed , then for both him , & me , & for us al , humbly & willingly to submitte our selves , our lives & conversations , & all our positions , & opinions , to be controlled , reformed , over-ruled , & judged by that word & Gospell , according whereunto , we shall all be judged in that last day ? This grace , & wisedome therefore God , of his mercie grant unto us all , ( if it be his will , ) to his honour and glorie , and to our owne everlasting comforts , through Iesus Christ , our whole and onely Mediator , Saviour , and Redeemer . Amen .

FINIS .
Post scriptum .

LEt none hereafter expect any more from mee , touching these matters , untill my former Booke , which by this my Adversarie is promised to be answered , according to the three conditions required by me ) be first , accordingly answered : and that this Reply be also therewithall Answered ; and all this to be done in Print , and not in Manuscripts , & with the Answerers right and true name also thereunto subscribed .

ERRATA , CORRECTA .

IN the Epistle Dedicat. pag. 1. line 12 this word ( first ) blotte out . In the Epist. to the Reader , pag. 1 l 2● . for satisfactory , satisfactorily p. 8. l 5. for suffertus , suffenus , p 9. lin 33 for scripturiam , scripturam , p. 10. l. 14. for ingeniosly , ingenuously . In the first Chapter of the Booke , p 2 l. 5. for will , soule p. 13 23. this word secondly , blotte out , & in stead thereof put this figure 2 to note it to be the second section of that Chapter , & so reade on forward , thus : It being then a thing very demonstratively evident , &c p. 13. l. 32. for Ministers , Ministery , p. 15. l 6. for writeth , citeth , p. 17. l 6. for makinde , mankinde p. 24. in the margent , for 2. Sam 20 17 put 2. Sam. 20 26. In p. 24 l. 31. & 32 , reade it thus : Aaron and his sonnes were appointed to the office of priesthood p. 26. l. 31 this word Thirdly , blotte out , & in lieu thereof put the figure of 3. to note it to be the Third section of that Chap p 26. l. 33. for wisheth , wished . p. 34 l. 10. for youg , young . p. 38. l 12. for divert direct p. 39. l. 19. reade , as unto the chiefe p. 42. l 6. & 7. for Iohn 9 , 11 , Iohn 19 , 11 p. 44 l. 17. for yea , yet . p. 44 l 18 for construed , considered , p 45. l. 26 for advantagement , advantage , p. 51 l. 23 for ingeniously , ingenuously , p 52. l 10 for Aquinus , Aquinas , p. 52. 32. for cause , clause , p. 13. l. 19. betweene , as , and other Bishops , put this word , over , pag 38. l 16. for worth , worthy , p 40 l. 5 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , p. 43. l. 33. this word ( as ) blotte out , p 57 , l. 3 this word ( and ) blotte out , p. 66. l 2. for shall , should , p , 70 , l 24 , for States , seates , p. 79. l 24. for under , made , p , 82 , l , 18 , for how , now , p , 83 , l , 7 , for Episcopus , Episcopos , p , 84 , l , 12 , after , but , reade by , pag , 15 , against l , 24 , in the margent , for Novel , const , 123 , Novel , const , 133 , p , 19 , l , 22 , for hignesse , highnesse , pag , 100 , l , vlt , for proferant , vel Apo , pag , 88 , l , 26 , for Airam Hira●● , & in margine , for 1 , Sam , 5 , 1● , reade 2 , Sam , 5 , 11 p , 88. l , 8 , for use , used , p , 94 , l , 3 , for could , would , p , 96 , l , 19 , betweene neverthelesse , & admit , put this word ( to ) p , 97 , l , 16 , for one , on , p , 97 , ly , the first ( onely ) blotte out , pag , 93 , l , 9 , for grant , reade , perceave , p. 102 l , 22 , after their , reade dayes , p , 102 , l , 21 , for make , made p. 82 l , 11 , for Bithinijs , Bithiniae .

And if any other faults have escaped in the Printing , I desire the Reader to correct them with his pen .