Sir I haue here sundry sorts of seasoning salt .

From whence commeth it ?

From the sacred salt-pits .

Is it that which is called Canonicall ?

Yes .

I would haue such as is fit to season some , whose speaches and behauiour are such , as giue occasion to many to suspect , that either they thinke there is no God , or if there be , that hee regardeth not what is done among men .

A learned man in a preface of his maketh mention of a wicked wretch which promised to shew how the Apostles and Euangelists haue mis-applied certaine places of the old Testament , ●un . in praefat. ●nte paralel . no doubt but Sathan séeing him , and such like , to stand in their owne conceipts , thought them fit instruments for him to continue a distasting of all spirituall things in such as set their affections on things that bee earthly , but if such fellowes , and the men you speake of , repent not , it will bee easier in the day of iudgement for Diagoras , Epicurus , and Protagoras then for them , because they saw not that light which these saw , or might haue seene if they had not shut their eyes against the Sunne of righteousnesse .

Friend Salter , I am perswaded there is none so stony-hearted , but our God , when hee will , can make him a child of Abraham . The Lord vseth meanes to conuert such as he will saue , therefore let mee haue some such Salt as you thinke fit to season these , whose state as yet is very fearefull .

Assure your selfe that they which thinke there is no God care little for any salt , or whatsoeuer is said to come from his sacred fountaines .

How shall these then & others that scoffe at all religious exercises be seasoned ?

Why , what said he ?

He said , as some write , that if hee had bene with God at the creation of the world , it should haue bene much better ordered then it is , but God punished him for so saying .

I haue not heard these men find any fault with the ordering of the world , but they thinke there be many things set down which are not likely to be true ; Gen. 3.1 . as that the Serpent should speake to Eue , Num. 22.28 the Asse should speake to Balaam , Ionas 1.17 that Ionas should ●iue in the belly of a fish , that mens bodies should be the torments of eternall fire , Iud. ver. 7. and neuer die , but liue still in them with paine .

The Emperour Iulian also thought that some talking of the Serpent , a strange thing , which is no more , saith the aforesaid Phillip , but that the diuel spake by the Serpent , and what is there herein saith he , that befel not daily among the Gentiles ? diuels , to deceiue men , spake to them from out of Images . The feend of Dodan spake out of an Oke : Philostratus saith , that an Elme spake to Apollonius of Thyaney . A riuer saith Porphyrius saluted Pithagoras . Iulian himselfe and his Phylosopher Maximus heard the diuell speake in diuers voices , & in diuers manners .

Do none of the ancient Fathers write of the Serpents talking with Eue ?

Yes I remember Saint Augustine saith , Lib. 2. de genesi . contra . Manich. ca. 14. that the Serpent signfieth the Diuell , which surely was not simple , for in that hée is said to be more wise then all the beasts , figurate insinuatur ei●s versutia , his subtilty is figuratiuely insinuated , & a little after he saith , Neither is it to be maruailed how he coul● speake to the woman , when shee was in Paradice and hee was not , neither was shee in Paradice , secundum locum , according to the place , but rather according to ●he loue of blessednesse , or if there were ●uch a place , which might be called Paradice ●n the which Adam and the woman dwelled ●orporally , ought wee to vnderstand the ●omming of the Diuell also to be bodily ? no ●erily , but spiritually , as the Apostle saith , ●ecundum principem potestatis aeris huius , Ephe. 2.2 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . spiritus qui nunc operatur in filijs affiden●iae , according to the Prince of the power of this aire , of the spirit which now wor●eth in the children of diffidence , or as some ●ranslate it , disobedience : did he then ( saith Saint Augustine ) appeare vnto them visibly , no verily , sed miris modis per cogitati●nes suggerit quicquid potest , But in a meruailous manner by thoughts he suggesteth whatsoeuer he can , the which suggestions they do resist which truly say that which the Apostle saith , 2. Cor. 2.18 Aerasmus & the vulgar Editition ioyned with him translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cogitationes thoughts . Non enim ignoramus astuti●s eius , for we are not ignorant of his wi●es for how came he to Iudas , when he perswa●ed him to betray ( Dominum ) the Lord his Maister ? was hee seene of him in places , or ●yhis eyes ? but euen as it is said he entred ●nto his heart , so doth Saint Austin write ●o shew the meaning of Saint Luke , Luc. 22.3 . which ●aith Sathan entred into iudgement .

It seemeth then that by Saint Austins words , and by the places of holy Scripture which he citeth , that by the Serpents talking with Eue , he vnderstandeth the suggestions and entisings of the diuell .

True , and in the same 14 chapter he saith , that euen now that is wrought in euery one of vs when wee fall into sinne , which was then done in those three , the serpent , the woman , and the man : for first there is a suggestion , either by thought or by the sense of the body , either by séeing , or touching or hearing , or by tasting , or smelling , after the which suggestion , if our lust or desire be not moued to sinne , the subtile or crafty enterprises of the Serpent shal be excluded , but if our lust be moued or stirred , now the woman , as it were , is perswaded , but sometime reason ( viriliter ) manfully bridleth and restraineth lust beeing stirred , which when it is done , we slide not into sin , but with some wrestling wee are crowned . But if reason consent and decree that to bée done which lust moueth vnto , then man is driuen out from all blessed life , as it were from Paradice , for now sinne is imputed though the deed follow not , quoniam reatenetur in consensione conscientia , because the conscience is held guilty in consenting .

So , enough of that matter : now sith there be no more Chapmen yet come , I pray you ere you deliuer the Canonicall Salt , tell me what that Father saith of Balaam and the Asse .

Touching that hee saith that Balaam was carried away with such a greedy desire , Quast . super Nume . q. 50. vt nec tanti monstri miraculo terreretur , that he was not terrified with so monstrous and strange a miracle , but answered the Asse as if hee spake to a man , whereas God did not turne asinae animam in naturam rationalem , the sensitiue part of the Asse into a reasonable nature , but made that to sound from her which pleased him , perhaps prefiguring this , 1. Cor. 2. that God would choose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise : for that spirituall and true Israell , hoc est , promissionis filijs ; that is to say the sonnes of promise .

But what saith hee of Ionas his being aliue in the Whales belly ?

Augustine in the last of the sixe questions against the pagans , Aug. de se● . quest. con. paganos expos. quaest. 6. ad Deo gratias . who made themselues great sport in laughing at that which is written of his beeing three daies in the Whales belly , and of the Gourd , he saith that either all the diuine miracles are not to be beleeued , or else there is no cause why this should not , and for that he knew Ionas to bee a figure of Christ , hee affirmeth that we should not beleeue in Christ himselfe , if the faith of Christians should feare the scoffes of Pagans , Io. 11.35.44 Mat. 12.40 . Acts 10.40 and hee addeth that hee much maruaileth that since his friend made no question of the rising againe of Lazarus the fourth day , or of Christ himselfe the third day , hee would count that which is written of Ionas a matter so vncredible , as if it were more easy for a dead man to bee raised out of his graue , then for a liuing man to bee preserued , in tam vasto ventre belluae , in that so large a belly of the Whale , then omitting to shew how huge certaine sea-beasts are iudged to be , by such as haue experience , hee saith a man might guesse by those ribs ( which beeing fastened in a publicke place in Carthage were knowne to the people ) how many men the belly of that fi●h might containe , and also how wide that mouth might gape which was as a gate to such a den .

What more ?

A little after hee saith that if it should bee said that Apuleius Madaurensis , or Apollonius Tyaneus , ( whom laudibly they name wise men and Phylosophers ) had done that which is writen of Ionas , they would not haue made such a laughing , though the diuels also doe many things like to the holy Angels , not in truth , but in shew , not by wisedome , but by plaine deceit .

What are the last words Saint Austine vseth in answering that question touching Ionas

Quod autem latuerit , sine salutis dispendio tolerandum .

So now I see you had not this at the second hand : But what saith he to those that cannot be perswaded , that the bodies of the damned should alwaies bee in torments and neuer dye ?

First he saith , that those vnbeléeuers , De ciuitate Dei , li 21. 〈…〉 will not haue vs to referre this to the power of the Almighty , but require vs to perswade them by some example : vnto whom if wee shall answere , that there bee some liuing creatures corruptible , because mortall , which yet liue in the midest of the fire , & some kind of wormes found in the breaking forth of hot waters , which no man can touch without some paine , the wormes not onely beeing there without hurt , but not able to bee out of it : either they will not beléeue if we cannot shew it , or if we be able to set the things themselues before their eyes , or bring forth fit witnesses , they will say this is not a fit example for the matter in question , because these creatures liue not alwaies , besides this , they liue and grow without paine in that heat , as beeing agreeable to their nature : as if ( saith Saint Austin ) it were not more vncredible they should be liuely and grow there , then not be tormented . It is a miraculous thing to feele paine in fire and yet liue , but it is more maruailous to liue in fire , and not to feele paine : if this then be beléeued , why not that also ? In the 3 chapter of that book● hee laboureth to proue that , Aug. de ciuit . dei l. 21. c 3. Dolor is not , necessarium argumentem futurae mortis , that is to say .

And hee giueth an instance in the soule : the soule ( saith he ) is grieued with the body in that place where it is pained , and it is grieued it selfe alone , though it bee in the body , being it selfe sad for some cause inuisible , the body beeing safe and sound . It is grieued and pained also , non in corpore constituta not beeing in the body , for the rich man ( saith he ) being in hel , was grieued and pained , when he said , I am tormented in this flame , Aug. de ciuit . dei l. 21. c. 4. In the next chapter the same Father sheweth of the Salamander that liueth in the fire , and of certaine hils in Sicilia well knowne , which continued a very long time burning , and yet were not consumed in his time : For ( saith he ) integri perseuerant , they continue whole , and these ( saith he ) are fit witnesses , that not euery thing which burneth is consumed . In the same fourth chap. he speaketh of Peacocks flesh , which after long kéeping ( as hee had tryed ) did not putrify though somewhat shrunke , and of chaffe kéeping snow , and ripening apples : to omit other things , hee commeth at last to the Loadstone , vnto which he himselfe saw an iron ring put and there stay , and so a second ring put to the first , a third to the second , and a fourth to the third , one ring sticking ( though not linked ) to another , through the vertue of the same stone ,

Doth hee write any thing else of that stone in that Chapter ?

Yes , he saith that one ( whom there he calleth brother and fellow Bishop ) told him that he saw one hold the Loadstone vnder siluer , vpon the which siluer was put yron which moued too and fro , as he that held the stone vnder the siluer moued his hand , the siluer that was betwixt the Loadstone and the iron mouing no whit at all , he saith also that he hath read , that if the Adamant bee set neere to the Loadstone , then the Loadstone doth not draw yron , De ciuitate dei , li. 21. c. 5. and that if it hath pluckt any yron to it before , it letteth it go when the Adamant appeareth . In the 5. chapter he speaketh of the salt of Agrigentum in Cicilie , which melteth in fire and cracketh in water : of a spring amongst the Garamantes that is so cold in the day time that it cannot be drunk & so hot in the night that it cannot bee toucht : of a stone in Arcadia called Asbeston , which beeing once set thorougly on fire cannot be quenched , of another stone called Selenites whose inward whitnesse increaseth and decreaseth with the the Moone , of Mares in Capadocia which conceiue by the wind , and of Iland in India called Tilon , the trees whereof neuer loose their leaues : these with others he setteth downe , to shew that the same diuine power , that gaue such properties to these things , can also bring to passe that men shall be in paine al waies and neuer dye , and that their flesh shall euer burne & neuer consume .

I know not what reckoning the men I named will make of these things which you haue mentioned , but I much meruaile they will serue no God at all ; sith all the heathen , for the most part ( as I haue heard ) worship either one God or other , either the Sunne , Moone and starres , or fire , or water , or the earth , or some other thing which did good to man , and was not made by man .

They did so , and therefore how wise soeuer your men thinke themselues to be , yet those other which tooke that which did giue them light , either by day or night or did heate them or coole them , or yeeld any fruite vnto them , and was not made by man , to be some God , that is some diuine power worthy of worship , were in my iudgement wiser then the Atheist : For though they fayled in this , that they stayed in the creatures , worshipping them and searching no further for the Creator , that is inuisible , as if one that commeth into a mill , and finding no man there but his grist grownd in his sacke , should put of his cap , make a legge , and thanke the mill , and so take vp his sacke & go his way , neuer thinking on the mil-wright that made the mil , or on the miller that set it on worke , though I say these erred , worshipping the creatures in steed of the Creator : yet in my simple iudgement hee that reasoneth thus : these things do mee good and were not made by men , therefore they are Gods , doth reason more wisely then he , that saith Sun , Moone and starres keepe their course , giue vs light ; the fire doth heate mee , the raine helpeth my corne & grasse to grow : these are not Gods , therefore there is no mighty power that worketh by them . How sayest thou Chapman doth not the first reason more wisely then the latter ?

The reason of the first seemeth to haue more force then the latter , yet I may not grant it to be wiser , vnlesse the first were wise , but I cannot grant the former to bee wise , vnlesse I would therewithall grant that there is wisedome in worshipping the workes in steed of the worke-maister : but I haue no more reason to grant that , then to yeeld to the Atheist , that religion sprang from policy , for if that were true the inuentors of it should be called fainers or lyars .

Lactantius , De●lra dei cap. 10. versus finem . an ancient and learned writer , saith that opinion is false , by which men thinke that religion was instituted by wise men , terroris & metus gratia * * To keepe men in awe as the vulgar Atheist speaketh . for terrour and feare sake , through which the ignorant might abstaine from sinne , which if it were true ( saith he ) then are we derided by ancient wise-men , who if they forged Religion to deceiue vs and all mankinde , they were not wise , because a lye is not found in a wise-man , but how wise soeuer they were , how came they by so great felicity in lying , that not onely they decei●ed the vnlearned , but Socrates also and Plato , and so easily deluded Pithagoras , Zeno , and Aristotle , the Authors of the greatest sects .

Howsoeuer others might fayne , Lact. de falsa Religione c. 4. I do not thinke the Prophets were such ,

To haue a will to faine any lye ( saith the aforesaid Authour ) belongeth to them which be still raking of riches and ga●ing for gaine , Ibid paulo ante . which things without doubt there far from those holy men , * which set forth one God , and beeing guided by the spirit of the same God spake one thing : who not onely had no gaine ( saith hee towards the end of the same Chapter ) but torments and death , and he addeth this reason : for the precepts of iustice are bitter to the vitious and bad-liuers , and therefore after they had cruelly tormented such as reproued and spake against their sinnes , they killed them .

What if any Pagan should say to vs , that professe the Christian Religion , you Christians haue fained that which you haue set forth , and to the end men might more bee moued to giue credit , you do with one consent write , that all those things were fore-told long before ?

Saint Augustine vpon the 8. 〈◊〉 Iohn saith , Tract. 45. that against such Pagan enimies the should so say , we haue haue the testimonies of other enemies , proferimus codices a Iudaeis , we bring forth bookes from th● Iewes . & wee answere , both they & you ar● enimies to our faith , therefore are they dispearsed amongst the nations , that we may conuince one enemy by another . Let the booke o● Esay be brought forth by the Iewes , let vs se● if I do not read there . Isay 53.7 . He is brought , a●● sheepe to the slaughter . Chap. 53.

Are there none that write o● this one God but the Prophets and other holy men , named in the Scriptures ?

You forget your selfe , you told m● you would haue Canonicall Salt for your Atheist , why then doe you aske for other ? belike you meane to giue him a preparatiue before you giue him a quicke purge : whom do you meane ? The Fathers that wrote after the Apostles time or some other among the heathen before Christ his incarnation ? if you meane these last-named , then know you that Lactantius setteth downe some spéeches of Trismegistus , De fal . relig. ca. 6. and the Sibylls touching one God .

What was that Trismegistus and those Sibylls ?

Cicero bringeth in Cotta disputing against the Stoicks touching religions , and the varieties of the opinions which are wont to bee concerning the Gods , there were ( saith Cotta ) fiue Mercuries whereof the first was he that slew Argus , and so fled into Egypt , and deliuered vnto them lawes and letters : This man the Egyptians call Thoth , Some of our Prognost . say they call Iuly Thoth . Prog. 1610. of whom the first moneth of their yeare , that is September , is named , &c. This man being furnished of all kind of learning was for his great knowledge sur-named Trismegistus , thrise greatest , as some with vs by such as dedicate bookes to them , are called thrise Noble , thrise vertuous &c.

Well , what saith that great learned man ?

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. But God is one , Lact. de fals. relig. ca. 6. Lact de ver● sap. ca. 6. and one needeth no name , ( and againe saith he ) : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. The Lord and Creator of all things , whom we thinke good to call God , &c.

Now to the Sibylls , what were they ? and what say they ?

Varro , who ( as Lactantius saith ) was as learned a man as euer liued among the Greekes and Lattines , De fal . relig. ca. 6. affirmeth that the Sibylline bookes or workes that beare the name of Sibilla were not made of one Sibylla , but were so called because all Prophetesses in time of old were called Sibylls , either from the name of one Sibyll that was at Delphis , or for the denouncing the counsaile of the gods : For in Arolikes speech they call the gods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and counsell , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Now there were tenne of these Sibylls , whereof the fift was Erythraea . shee in the verses that were brought to Rome hath these words , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

One God which alone passing all magnitude vncreated . These Sibylls haue written many things touching our Sauiour Christ his miracles , sufferings , resurrection , and comming to iudgement , as is to be séene in the said Lactantius , out of whom Saint Augustine citeth many spéeches of the said Sibylls , especially of Erythraea , the first letters of whose Greeke verses touching Christ his comming to iudgement , make these words in Lattin . Iesus Christus Dei filius saluator , Iesus Christ the Sonne of God our Sauiour .

Haue you read these words in S. Augustine ? or do you finde them in Phillip of Morney his booke ,

Are the verses you spake of set downe in that Chapter .

Yes , in Lattine , Iudicij signum , &c.

I would I had them in English ,

If you will haue them Englished in the best manner , you must craue it at the hands of some other , but if you will see the sence as I haue giuen it after the plaine fashion , thus it is .

In whose time liued that Sibyll ?

Did she write such things so long before the Incarnation of our Sauiour Iesus Christ ?

It should seeme so by S. Austin , but since your comming was not for Sibyl-Salt , but for Salt Canonicall , tell mee how much you will haue .

Marry friend Salter tell me first I pray thee what I shall say to these Atheists if they should aske mee how I know that this Salt which commeth from Bible-Spring , doth passe all other .

Hee which for that matter hath not the inward testimony of the spirit which is the chiefest , must bee exhorted to seeke for some outward testimony in the fountaine it selfe , whereof the first may be the maiesty of the doctrine euery where appearing in those sacred and Canonicall bookes , Vide Whita . in dis. de sacr. Scrip. contren 1. Q●aest 3. cap. 3. sect. 5. The ●econd the simple , pure , and heauenly kind of writing , neither Plato , Aristotle , nor Demosthenes , nor Cicero , nor any other that wrote so purely , so holily , and so diuinely . The third is the antiquity of them , for the bookes of Moses are more ancient then the writings of all men , other Writers were vtterly ignorant of the History he deducteth from the creation , or had it from thence , or else bee sprinkled with many fables . The fourth testimony is the Oracles which confirme the authority of those books to be very sacred , as the which must needes bee diuine , for that in them are fore-told some things which came to passe man● ages after , and names were put vpon som● men before they were borne , certaine hundreth of yeares , as in 1 Kings 13 Chapter the man of God which came out of Iudah by the commandement of the Lord , cryed against that Altar , in the presence of King Iereboam , and said : O Altar , Altar , thus saith the Lord , behold a child shal be borne vnto the house of Dauid , Iosiah by name and vpon thee shall hee sacrifice the Priest● of the high places : this he spake more ther● 300 yeares before Iosiah was borne , 44.28 . & 45. ● . , th●● Prophet Esaie in like manner nameth Cyrus some 100 yeares ere he was borne .

How can you proue that Iosia● and Cyrus were named so long before they were borne ?

Go on now with the rest of the testimonies for the authority of the Scriptures .

What miracles ? if you meane such are found in the Scriptures , assure your selfe that they which doubt of , or set light by the Scriptures , make little accompt of the miracles or any thing else contained in them , though they were not faigned .

If that testimony seeme weak take the sixt , Do. Whitak in dis. de sacr Scrip. contro . 1 Qu. 3. ca. 3. sest. 5 which is the enemies themselues , who though they haue oft gone about to take away all the Scriptures from the sight of men , yet they could neuer bring it to passe , but by their owne paines and punishments vnderstood , that it was the word of God that they oppugned .

The seuenth is the testimony of the Martirs , which by their confession and death sealed the doctrine deliuered , and set forth in those bookes ,

The eigth the Writers themselues who wrote them , bring great credit vnto them , for if ye consider what manner of men they were , before they were stirred vp by the holy Ghost , to take this vpon them wee shall finde that they were very vnfit for such a businesse .

Moses before hee was made fit to bee a Prophet and a guide to the people of Israel , Exod. 2.10 . & 3.1 . was first a Courtier in Egypt , and after that a shepheard .