A compendious or briefe examination of certayne ordinary complaints of diuers of our country men in these our dayes which although they are in some part vniust & friuolous, yet are they all by vvay of dialogues throughly debated & discussed. By William Stafford, gentleman. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A12827 of text S103215 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 23133). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 247 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 60 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A12827 STC 23133 ESTC S103215 99838972 99838972 3365 2248558065

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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A12827) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 3365) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1220:12) A compendious or briefe examination of certayne ordinary complaints of diuers of our country men in these our dayes which although they are in some part vniust & friuolous, yet are they all by vvay of dialogues throughly debated & discussed. By William Stafford, gentleman. Hales, John, d. 1571, attributed name. aut Smith, Thomas, Sir, 1513-1577, attributed name. Stafford, William, 1554-1612. [4], 55 leaves In Fleetstreate, neere vnto Saincte Dunstones Church, by Thomas Marshe, Imprinted at London : 1581. Folios 3, 35, 38 and 40 misnumbered 4, 36, 34 and 36. "This was written in 1549; sometimes attributed to John Hales but more probably by Sir Thomas Smith."--STC. STC suggests William Stafford as editor. Title within decorative woodcut border. At foot of title: Cum priuilegio. Reproduction of the original in the Folger Shakespeare Library. eng Great Britain -- Economic conditions -- Early works to 1800. Great Britain -- History -- Edward VI, 1547-1553 -- Early works to 1800. eebo A compendious or briefe examination of certayne ordinary complaints of diuers of our country men in these our dayes: which although they are in some p [no entry] 1581 120 47316 1824 0 0 0 1 0 387.61 F The rate of 387.61 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the F category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2002-10 Assigned for keying and markup 2002-11 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2002-12 Sampled and proofread 2002-12 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2003-02 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

A COMPENDIous or briefe examination of certayne ordinary com plaints , of diuers of our country men in these our dayes : which although they are in some parte vniust & friuolous , yet are they all by way of dialogu●…e thoroughly debated & discussed

By William Stafford , Gentleman ▪

IMPRINTED at London in Fleetstreate , neere vnto Saincte Dunstones Church , by Thomas Marshe .

1581. Cum Priuilegio .

Qui Leo de Iuda est , & flos de Iesse , Leones protegat , & flores Elizabeta tuos .

TO THE MOST VERtuous and learned Lady , my most deare and Soueraigne Princesse ELIZABETH , by the Grace of GOD , Queene of England , Fraunce , and Ireland , Defendresse of the Fayth . &c.

WHereas there was neuer anye thinge hearde of in any age past hetherunto , so perfectly wrought and framed , eyther by Arte or Nature , but that it hath at some time , for some forged and surmised matter , sustayned the reprehension of some enuious persons or other : I doe not much meruayle most mighty Pryncesse , that in this your so noble & famous a gouernment , ( the glory whereof is now longe sithence ●…attered and spread ouer the whole face of the Earth , ) there are notwithstanding certayne euill disposed people , so blinded with malice , and subdued to their owne parciall conceiptes : that as yet they can neyther spare indifferent iudgements to conceyue , or reuerent tongues to reporte a known truth , touching the perfection of the same . But for these men , as they are ( no doubt ) sufficiently refuted by the testimonies of their owne cosciences : so are they most certaynly condemned by the common consent of all such , as are wise or indifferent . And although this be of it selfe so cleare and manyfest that it cannot be denied , yet could not I forbeare ( most renowmed soueraigne ) being as it were inforced , by your Ma●…esties late & singular clemency , in pardoning certayne my vnduetifull misdemeanour , but seeke to acknowledge your gracious goodnesse and bounty towards me , by exhibiting vnto you this small and simple present : wherein as I haue indeu●…ed in fewe wordes to aunswere certayne quarrels and obiections , dayly and ordinarily occurrent in the 〈◊〉 of sundry men , so doe I most humbly craue your Graces fauourable acceptation thereof : protestinge also with all humility , that my meaninge is not in the discourse of these matters heere disputed , to define ought , which may in any wise sounde preiudiciall to any publicke 〈◊〉 , but only to alleadge such probability as 〈◊〉 coulde , to stop the mouthes of certayne euill affected 〈◊〉 , which of their curiosity require farther satisfaction in these matters , then can well stand with good modesty . 〈◊〉 as vpon this zeale & good meaning towards your 〈◊〉 , I was earnestly moued to vndertake 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in the handling thereof rather content to shewe my selfe vnskilfull to others , then vnthankfull to you : so 〈◊〉 of your auncient accustomed clemency , I was so bould to 〈◊〉 the same to your gracious protection , fully 〈◊〉 and assuring my self , that it would generally obtayne the better credit & entertainment among others , if your 〈◊〉 name were prefixed , as it were a most rich Iewell and rare Ornament to beautifie and commend the same . God preserue your Maiesty with insinit increase of all his blessings bestowed vpon you , and 〈◊〉 that your dayes of life here vpon the earth may be extended ( if it be his good will ) 〈◊〉 far beyond the ordinary course of Nature : that as you haue already sufficiently raygned for your owne honour and glory to last withall posterities : so you may continew and remayne with vs many more yeares , euen to the ful contentation ( if it may so be ) of vs your louing subiects , and to the perfect establishing of this florishing peace & 〈◊〉 anquillity in your common weale for euer .

YOVR MAIESTIES most faythfull and louing subiect , WILLIAM STAFFORD .
A Table of thinges most notable contained in this Booke . THat no man is a straunger to the common 〈◊〉 that he 〈◊〉 in . 1. a That of many heads is gathered a perfect counsayle . 1. b That euery man is to be credited in his 〈◊〉 arte . 1. b Why 〈◊〉 booke is made by way of dialogue 2. a The 〈◊〉 of they ▪ hole booke ▪ 2. a That men 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 borne to themselues onely . 3. a The 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 by husbandmen . 3. b The 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 of victual by artificers . 3. b The complaint of the decay of townes by Marchaunt men , and of all other common 〈◊〉 . 4. a That many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 downe , and yet neuer the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 4. a Of dearth of 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 4. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of all 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 4. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should not be the 〈◊〉 of this dearth . 4. b 〈◊〉 Gentlemen 〈◊〉 most 〈◊〉 by this dearth . 4. b The 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 against Gentlemen for taking of fear●… , 4. b The 〈◊〉 man complaint that he cannot set men a worke for the 〈◊〉 of victual . 5. a The Gentleman , complaint 〈◊〉 he cannot keepe like 〈◊〉 as he was wont to doe . 5. a Why Gentlemen do gieue ouer their housholdes . 5. b Why Gentlemen do take fearmes to their handes . 5. b A complaint against sheepe . 5. b The Doctors 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 men of 〈◊〉 sorte . 6. a A complaint against learned men . 6. a Why learning should be 〈◊〉 to decay hereafter . 6. b Whether a common weale may 〈◊〉 well gouerned without lear●… ▪ 6. b That the learned haue alwaies had the 〈◊〉 ouer the vnlearned . 7. a Whether a man may be wise 〈◊〉 learning . 7. a That 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , and that 〈◊〉 is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 7. a The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 . 8. a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 learning . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 os his great lear●… 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 8. b That knowledge in morall Philosophye is moste necessary for a Counsailour . 9. a What makes learned men to be so few . 9. b That yonge studients be alwaies ouer hasty in vttering their iudgements . 9 b That Pythagoras commaunded silence to his disciples for a time . 9. b That Plato commaunded that no man ignoraunt in geometry should enter his scoole . 10. a What harme may come if they be suffered to iudge in thinges to whome , that doth not 〈◊〉 10. a That it is not learning sufficient to know tongues and write . 10. a Why learning should decay . 10. b That euery state 〈◊〉 himselfe grieued . 11. a That marchaunts can best saue themselues in euery alteration . 11. a Os our old coyne exhausted . 11. a Whether it made any matter of what mettal the coyn be made 11. b What men are most pinched by this same dearth 11. b That the prince hath most 〈◊〉 by this vniuersall dearth . 11. b What daunger should it be to the Realme if the prince should want treasure in time of needo . 12. a How the Queenes 〈◊〉 can not haue treasure when her subiectes haue none . 12. b A recapitulation of the common grieues . 13. a That it is a maruailous dearth that comes in time of plenty . 13 ▪ b The table of the second dialogue . The occasion of this dearth is laide to the Gentlemen . 14. a How from the Gentlemen it is laide to the husbandmen . 14. a The Gentlemens excuse and reasonable offer , 14. a The Husbandman refuseth and puts ouer the fault to ironmongers and clothiers . 14. b If all land were abated in their rent whethet this dearth woulde be remedied . 15. a That it were not expedient that straungers should sell their wares 〈◊〉 , and we ours good cheape . 15. a Another offer of the Gentleman made to the husbandman 15. a Whether 〈◊〉 the husbandman were forced to abate the price of hys 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 dearth should be then amended . 14. b The straungers take but money currant euery where for their wares that they haue ouer their exchaunge . 16. b That straungers and all 〈◊〉 brings thinges that be beste cheape to them , and dearest with vs . 16. b What thinge is of that sorte . 17. a He that selleth good cheape , & buieth deare shal not lightly thriue . 17. b It is not possible to keepe our treasure from 〈◊〉 forth of the realm if 〈◊〉 be in 〈◊〉 estimation elswhere . 17. b That the dearth rose neither at the gentleman nor the husband 〈◊〉 handes . 18. a Permutation of things before coyne , 18. a 〈◊〉 complaint against 〈◊〉 maisters . 18. b That Inclosuresis occasion of desolation & weaking of the power of the realme . 18. b Reasons to defend Inclosures . 18. b What kinde of Inclosures is hurtfull . 19. a Whether that that is profitable to one , may be profitable to all other if they vse the same feate . 19. a Euery commodity must be so aduaunced , as it be not preiudiciall to other greater commodities . 19. b No man may abuse his owne things to the preiudice of the common weale . 20 , a How inclosures might be remedied without cohercion of lawes . 20. b. That a like restraint of woll should be made as is of corne or none to be sent ouer 〈◊〉 . 21. a Reasons why the husband should not be at liberty , as wel as other to sell his 〈◊〉 . 21. b That by breeding the husband hath most clere gaines . 22. a That profit aduaunceth all faculties . 22. b That some are to be allured by rewardes , and some other with straight paynes 〈◊〉 in a common weale . 22. b The lesse honor or profit is geuen to any Arte , the lesse it shal be frequented . 23. a Profit will make husbandmen more occupied & thereby more plenty and consequently better cheape of corne . 23. b Whether the Queenes custome should be minished by restraint of Wooll vnwrought . 24. b How straungers fetcheth from vs our greate commodities for very trisles . 25. a Our delicacy in requiring straungers wares . 25 a The 〈◊〉 of Haberdashers , and Mylleners ouer they were wont to be . 25. b How the Straungers finde an easier way to get Treasure by things of no value then by any Mynes of gold and siluer . 25 b How straungers 〈◊〉 their people with our commodityes . 25. b Why strangers may aforde Wares by them made , 〈◊〉 then we may the same made heere , and yet that it were better for vs to buy our owne though they be dearer . 26. a The most durable & vniuersall profit is more to be esteemed then short and particuler . 26. b Whether such restraints do touch the leagues made with outward princes . 26. b No league is to be chearished that is not for the common weale . 27. a A worthy example to be solowed in vsing of straungers 27. a What harmes come and may come by the alteration 〈◊〉 the coyn . 27. b That the substance and quantity is esteemed in coyne and not the name . 28. b That the necessity of mutuall traffique & commodity of exchaunge made coyne to be deuised . 29. a Why Golde and Siluer were the stuffe most meetest for Coyne to be stricken in . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 Why Gold and Siluer are esteemed 〈◊〉 all other me●…als . 30. a Why Siluer and Gold were coyned . 31. a 〈◊〉 br●…e siluer & gold were weighed be●…ore coine made . 31 a What losse 〈◊〉 of losse of ●…edence . 31. b What do 〈◊〉 bringe vs for our treasure & chief commodity ▪ 3●… . a How our old coine may be t●…nsported , and the 〈◊〉 & her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 32. a We 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 way 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 32. b Why 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 32. b Some 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the coyne , 33. a Who 〈◊〉 losse by the ●…lteration of the coyne . 33. a Of 〈◊〉 i●… app●…ll . 33. b In 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 34. b Of 〈◊〉 in buildings . 35. a How the alteration of the 〈◊〉 ●…houlde b●…e most losse to the Prince , 35. b Whether all our Woolle were expedient to be soulde ouer vnw●…ght . 36. b Mysteri●… are to be increased rather then minished . 37. 〈◊〉 Of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Mysteries . 3●… . 〈◊〉 One 〈◊〉 out 〈◊〉 treasure . 37. 〈◊〉 Another spendeth that they get in the same countrey againe . 38. a The 〈◊〉 sorte bringeth in ●…reasure , and therefore most to bee chearished . 38. a Mysteries doe in●…iche countreys that be els barren . 38. b 〈◊〉 with straungers are to be purchased and kep●… , 39. a Whether great Armyes were as necessary here as in Fra●…ce . 39. a A lesse grie●… would not be holpen with a greater sore . 39. b The common grieues . 40. b The table of the third dialogue . The originall cause in euery thing is to be searched . 41. a Diuerse sortes of causes there be . 41. b Howe one thing is cause of the other & that of the third . 42. a The straungers aunswere touching thi●… dearth . 42. b That the alteration of the coyne was the very cause of the dearth and consequently of other griefes which followed , 43. b How Inclosures might be remedied . 46. a Of townes decayed . 47. b The occasion of the decay of townes . 48. a That arte is to be most cheri●…ed in a towne that bringeth most to t●…e towne . 49. a Townes are enryched with some one trade . 49. a The occasion of sysmes in matters of Religion , 51. a The 〈◊〉 on the parte of ●…he ●…aytye . 53. b How these sysmes ●…ight be remedied . 54. b The byshop of Rome is no indifferent man , 55. a FINIS .
A Briefe conceipte touching THE COMMON WEALE OF THIS REALME OF ENGLAND .

CONSIDERING THE diuerse and sondry complaints of our countriemen in these our da●…es , touching the great alteration of this common wealth , with●… the compasse of these fewyeres lately past : I thought good at this time . to . set downe such probable discourse for the occasion hereof , as I haue ●…earde oftentimes vttered by men of ▪ 〈◊〉 learnyng and deepe iudgement . And a●…eit I am not one to whom the consideration and reformation of the same doth especially belong : yet knowing my selfe to bee a Member of the same Commonweale , and to further it by all the wayes that possibly I ma●… : I cannot recken and No man is a straunger to the commonweale he is in . 〈◊〉 my selfe a meere stra●…ger to this inatter , no more than a man that were 〈◊〉 a Shi●…pe , which being in daunger of wracke might say , that , because he is not ( percase ) the maister or Pylate of the same , the da●…ger thereof doth pertayne nothing at all to him . Therefore ha●…inge ●…owe suffycient leasure from other 〈◊〉 , mee thought , I coulde no●… apply my study to a better and the●… to publish & make relation of such matters as I haue heard throughly disputed herein .

First , what thingee men are most grieued with , than , what should 〈◊〉 the occasion of the same : And that knowne how such 〈◊〉 may bee taken away , and the state of the Common weale reformed agayne . And albeit yee might well ●…ay , that there be men of greater wittes then I that haue that matter in charge , yet ▪ Fooles ( as the Prouerbe is ) sometimes speake to the purpose : and as many heads , so many wittes , and therefore Prynces , though they bee neuer so wyse themselues , ( as our most excellent Prynce is ) yet the wiser that they be , the moe counsellers they wil haue , ( as our noble and gratious Queene doth daily make choyse of more ) for that , that one cannot perceaue , another doth discouer : the giftes of wits be so diuerse , that some excelles in Memory , some in Inuention , some in Judgement , some at 〈◊〉 first sight ready . & some after long consideration : & though each of these by them selues do not ●…euerally make per●…t the matter , yet when euery man bryngs in his gyfte , a meane witted man may of all these ( the best of euery mans deuise being gathered together ) make as it were a pleasaunt and perfect Garlonde to adorne and ●…cke hys head with all . Therefore I would not onely haue learned Of many heades is gathered a perfect counsell . men , whose Iudgementes I would wyshe to be 〈◊〉 ●…steemed herein , but also Marchaunt men , Husbandmen , & Artificers , which in their callinges are taken wyse , freely suffered , y●…a , and 〈◊〉 to tell their Aduyses in this matter . For some 〈◊〉 in their feates , they may disclose , that the wysest in a Realme cannot vnfoulde againe . And it is a maxime , or a thinge receyued as an infaylible verity among all men , that euery man is to be credited in That euery man is to be credited in his owne Arte. that Arte that he is most exercysed in . For did not Apelles that excellent Paynter consider , that whan he layde forth his fyne Image of Venus to be seene of euery man that past by , to the intent he hearing euery mans iudgement in his owne Arte might alwayes amend that was a mysse in his worke , whose Censures he allowed so longe as they kept them within their owne Faculties , and tooke not vppon them to meddle with an other mans Arte : so percase I may be aunswered as he was , yet I refuse not that , if I passe my compasse : but for as much as most of this matter contayneth Pollicy , or good gouermnent of a co●…onweale , being a Member of Philosophy morale , wherein I haue somewhat studyed , I shall bee so bolde with my countreymen : who I doubt not will construe-euery thinge to the best , as to vtter my poore and s●…mple conteipt herein , which I haue gathered out of the talke of diuerse and sundry notable men that I haue hea●… de reason on this matter : and though I should herein percase moue some thinges that were openlye not to bee touched , as in such cases of disceptacion is requisite , yet hauinge respect to what 〈◊〉 they bee spoken , I trust they can offend no man , for harde were it to heale a soare that a man woulde not haue opened to his Physition , nor yet a surf●… that a man woulde Why the Booke is made by way of Dialogue . not declare the occasion thereof . Therefore now to goe to the matter , vppon 〈◊〉 of your good acceptation , that kinde of reasoning seemeth to 〈◊〉 best for boultinge ●…ut of the truth , which is vsed by waye of Dialogues , or colloquyes , where reasons where made ●…oo and froe , as well for the matter intended as against it : I thought best to take that way in the discourse of this matter , which is , first in recounting the common and v●…niuersall grieues that men complayne on now a dayes , secondly in boulting oute Thesūme of the whole Booke . the verye causes and occasions of them , thirdlye , and finally in deuising of remedies for al the same . Therefore I will declare vnto you what communication a Knight had betweene him & certayne other persons of late about this matter , which because it happened betwene such persons , as were Members of euery state that finde themselues grieued now a dayes , I thoughte it not meete to bee forgotten to let you vnderstand that the persons were these . A knight as I sayde first , a Marchaunt man , a Doctor , a Husband man , and Craftes man . And first , the Knight rehearsed the communication in this manner ensuing .

THE FIRST DIALOGVE . Knight .

AFter I and my Fellowes the Justices of peace of this 〈◊〉 had the other day declared the Quen●…s highnes co●…ission touching diuers matters , & geuen the charge to 〈◊〉 : I ●…eing doth weary of the heate of the people & 〈◊〉 of the same , thought to 〈◊〉 to ●… friendes house of myne in the towne which selles Wyne , to the intent 〈◊〉 eate a ●…orsell of meate , for I was then fasting , taking with me an honest husbandman , who●… for his honesty and good discretion I loued very wel : whether as we were co●…e & had but ●…kant sit downe 〈◊〉 ●… close Parloure , there comes me in a Marchaunte man of that c●…ty , a man of estimation and substaunce ▪ and requires the sayd Husbandman to goe and dyne with him , ●…ay ( quoth I ) ●…e will not I trust nowforsake my company , though he should fare better with you .

Marchaunt .

Than ( quoth the marchaunt man ) I will send home for a pa●…y of ●…enison that I haue there & for a friend of mine and a neighbor that I had bid to dinner , and we shal be so bolde as to make merry , withall heere , in your company , & as for my guest hee is no straunger vnto you neyther ▪ And therefore both he of youres , & you of his company , I trust wil be the gladder .

Knight .

Who is it .

Marchaunt .

Doctor Pandotheus .

Knight .

Is he so , on my fayth he shal be heartely welcome , for of hi●… we sha●… haue some good communication a●…d wise , for he is noted a learned and a wise man . And immediately the Marchaunt sendes for him , and he comes vnto vs , & bryngeth wyth him an honest man a Capper of the same towne who came to speake with the sayd Marchaunt , than after salutations had ( as yee knowe the maner is ) betweene me and maister 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which had bene long before 〈◊〉 vs , we sat all downe , 〈◊〉 when we 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of out stomackes .

Doctor .

On my ●…ayth ( quoth the Doctor ) to me , yee make much adoe , you that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 Countrey , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and in causing poore men to appeare before you and leauing theyr husbandry vnlookte to at 〈◊〉 .

Knight .

Surely it is so . Yet the prince must ●…e serued and the commonweale , for God and the prince haue not sent vs the poore 〈◊〉 that we haue , but 〈◊〉 seruice therefore abrode amonges our Neyghbours .

Doctor .

It is well if yee take it so , for nature hath graffed that perswasion in you and all other th●…t followes the cleare light of Nature . As learned men haue remembred , saying , Plato . Cicero . we be not borne onely to our selues , but partely to the vse of ou●… 〈◊〉 , of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , of our Kinsfolkes , and partly of our Friendes and Neyghboures , and therefore That men are not borne to themselues on●…ly . all good vertues are graffed in vs naturally , whose effects be to doe good to other , wherein we shewe forth the Image of God in Man , whose property is euer to doe good to other , and to distribute his goodnesse abrode lyke no Nygarde , nor enuyous of any other creatures . As they resemble nothing of that godly Image , so they study no common vtility of other , but onely the conseruation of them selues and propagation of their owne kynde . Wherefore ▪ if we looke to be reckned most vnlyke them being most vyle , and lykest to God being ●…ost excellent , let vs 〈◊〉 to doe good to other , not preferring the ease of this Carkasse which is like the Brute beastes , but rather the vertues of the minde where●… we be lyke God him selfe .

Husband .

Then ( sayd the Husbandman ) for all your paynes ( meaning by me ) & all oures also , I would yee ●…ad neuer worse Commissions in hande than this is . So we had lost more 〈◊〉 workes at our 〈◊〉 than this .

Knight .

Why so ▪

Husband .

Mary for these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vs ●…ll , for they make vs to pay dearer for our lande that we occupy , & causes that we can haue no lande in manner for our money to Complaynt of Inclosures by Husbandmen put to Tylla●… , all is taken vp for 〈◊〉 ▪ for Pasture ▪ eyther for 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Cattell , in so much that I haue knowne of late ●… 〈◊〉 ploughe●… within lesse compasse than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about mee , layde downe within this senem yeares : and where threescore persons or vpward had ●…eir liuings , now one man with his Cattell hath all , which thinge is not the 〈◊〉 cause of former 〈◊〉 : for by these Inclosures many doe ▪ lacke ●…uings and be 〈◊〉 , & therefore for ●…ery necessity they are desiro●…s of a chaunge being in hope to come thereby to somewhat , and well assured that howe so euer it befall with them , it can bee no harder with them than it was before : more ouer all 〈◊〉 are so deere that by their day wages , they are not able to lyue .

Capper .

I haue well the experience thereof , for I am ●…aine to geue my Iourneimen two pence in a day more than I was 〈◊〉 to doe , and yet they say they cannot sufficiently liue thereon . Complaynt of dea●…h of vittayle by Artifice●…s . And I know for truth , that the best husbande of them can saue but litle at the yeares ende , and by reason of such derth as yee speake of we that are Artificers , are able to keepe but fewe or no Prentizes like as wee were wont to doe , and therefore Cityes which were her●…tofore well inhabyted and wealthy , ( as yee know euery one of you ) are now for lacke of occupiers fallen to great pouerty and desolation .

Marchaunt .

So be the most parte of all the townes of England , London 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and no●… only the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are 〈◊〉 decayed in their Howses , Walles , Streates , and other buildings , but also the countrey in their high wayes & Brydgés , Complaynt of townes by Marchauntm●… & of all other common ea●…ementes . for such pouerty raygneth euery where , that few men haue so much to spare as they may geue any thing to the reparation of such wayes , brydges , and other commmon easements , and 〈◊〉 there be many things layde downe now which before time were occasions of much expences , as Maygames , Wakes , Reuels , wages at shootinge , wrestling , Many superfluous charges layde downe and yet neuer the more plenty . running , and throwing the stone , or barre , & besides that , Pardons , Pylgrimages , Offrings , and many such other thinges , yet I perceyue we bee neuer the wealthyer , but rather poorer : whereof it is long I cannot well tell , for ther is such a general dearth of al things as before . xx . or ▪ xxx . yeares hath not ●…ene the like , not onely of things growing within this Realme , but also of all other Marchaundize Dearth of out warde Marchaundize . that we buy from beyond the Sea , as Sylkes , Wynes , Oyles , Woode , Madder , Yron , Steele , Waxe , ●…lare , ●…ymencloth , 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , Couerlets , Carpets , and all ●…earfes , & Tapestry . Spyces of all sort and al ●…aberdasher ware , as ●…ayer both white & browne , Glasses aswell drinckinge , and looking as for glasinge of Windowes , 〈◊〉 , Needles , Kniues , Daggers , ●…ats , Cappes , Broches , Buttons , and Laces . I wot well all these doe cost nowe more by the thyrde parte than they Dearth of all kinde of vittayle . did but fewe yeares agoe : than all kinde of Uittayle are as deere or deerer agayne , & no cause of Gods part thereof as farre as I can perceaue , for I neuer sawe more plenty of Corne , grasse , and Cattell of all sorte than wee haue at this present , & haue had ( as yee know ) all these twenty yeares passed continually , thanked bee our Lorde God : if these Inclosures were cause thereof , or any other thinge els , it were pity but they might be remooued .

Knight .

Synce yee haue plenty of all thinges , of Corne , & Cattell , ( as yee say ) them it should not seeme this ●…arth shou●… be longe of these Inclosures , for it is not for scarcenesse of Corne that yee haue this dearth ( for thanked be God ) Corne That Inclosues be not the cause of this dearth . is good cheape , and so hath bene these many yeares past continually . Than it cannot bee the occasion of the dearth of Cattell , for Inclosure is the thing that nourisheth most of any other : yet I confesse there is a wonderfull dearth of all things , and that doe I , and all men of my sorte feele most griefe in , which haue no way to sell , or occupation to lyue by , but onely our landes . For you all three ( I ●…eane ) yo●… That Gentle●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by this ●…h . my neyghbour the husbandman , you maister 〈◊〉 , and you goodman Capper , 〈◊〉 other Ar●…rs may saue yóur selues meetely well . Forasmuch as all thinges are deerer then they were , so much doe you aryse in the pryce of your wares and occupations that yee sell agayne . 〈◊〉 ut we 〈◊〉 nothing to sell whereby we might ad●…ce y● 〈◊〉 th●…of , to counterualue those things that we 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪

Husband .

Yes , yee ráyse the price of your 〈◊〉 , and yee take Fermes also and pastures to your hands , ( which was 〈◊〉 to bee poore mens lyuings such as I am ) and haue geuen ouer to liue onely vpon your Landes .

On my soule yee say truth ( quoth the 〈◊〉 ) and the Capper also sayd no lesse , adding thereto that 〈◊〉 was The complaint of 〈◊〉 men against Gentle men for ●…ing of 〈◊〉 . neuer merry with poore Crafts men , since Gentlemen became Grasiers , for they cannot now a dayes ( sayd he ) finde theyr Prentizes and seruauntes meate and dryncke , but it cost them almost double asmuch as did before 〈◊〉 , wherefore , where many of myne occupation and other like , heretofore haue dyed rych men , and bene able to leaue honestly dehynde them for theyr Wyfe and Children , and besides y● leaue some notable bequestes for some good deede , as to 〈◊〉 making of Brydges , & repayring of highwayes , all which thinges goe to wracke now euery where . Also some were wont to buy Land eyther for to helpe the poore beginners 〈◊〉 occupations : yea , some time they had such 〈◊〉 as they could ouer such bequestes leaue another Portion to finde a prysle , or to founde a Chauntry in some parishe The craftesmans complaynt that he cannot set men a worke for the Dearth of victayle . Church , and now we are skant able to liue without debt , or to keepe few seruasits or nō●… , except it be one Prentize or two . And therefore the Journeymen what of our occupations , and what of Clothyers , and all other occupations being forced to be without worke , are the most parte of these rude people that maketh these vprores abrode , to the great 〈◊〉 not onely of the Queenes highnes but also of hir people . And neede as yee knowe hath no booty .

Marchaunt .

It is true , yee knowe likewise what other notable acts men of myne occupation haue done in this City . Before this yee know the hospitall at the town●…s ende , wherein the freemen deca●…ed are releaued , how it was founded not longe 〈◊〉 by one of our 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 thereby that the ●…y should be much releaued , which then was in some decay , and yet it decayeth still euery day more and more , whereof it should be longe , I ca●…ot well tell .

Knight .

●…yr , as I knowe it is true that yee complayne not ●…out cau●…e , so it is as true that I and my sorte , I meane a●… The Gentlemans complaynt how he cannot keepe lyke countenaunce as he was wont to doe . Gentlemen haue as great yea and 〈◊〉 greater cause to complayne then any of you haue , ( for as I sayd ) now that the pry●…es of thinges ar●… so rysen of all handes you may better lyne after your degree then we , for you may and do rayse the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 wa●…s , as the pri●…es of ●…tayles , & other your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; and 〈◊〉 cannot we so much , for though 〈◊〉 bee true that of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as co●…e to our handes , ●…ther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 by ●…mination and ending of such ter●…es of yeares , or oth●… 〈◊〉 , that For mine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ▪ I ●…oe either 〈◊〉 a better 〈◊〉 than of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉 the ren●… thereof , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thereto for 〈◊〉 ●…arge of ●…y ●…holde that is so encreased ouer that it was , yet in all my lyfe tyme I looke not that the thyrd parte of my land shall come to my disposition , that I may enhaunce the rent of the same , but it shal be in mens holding either by leases or by copy graunted before my time , and still continuing , and yet lyke to continue in the same state for the most part during my lyfe , and percase my Sonnes : so as we cannot rayse all our wares as you may yours , and as me thinketh it were reason we did , and by reason that we cannot , so many of vs Why Gentlemen doe geue o●… their housholdes . ( as yee know ) that haue departed out of the countrey of late , haue bene driuen to geue ouer our housholds , and to kepe either a chamber in London , or to wayte on the Court vncalled , with a man and a Lackey after him , where he was wonte to keepe halfe a score of cleane men in his house , & xx . or xxiiii . other persons besides euery day in the weeke ▪ and such of vs as doe ●…yde in the countrey still , ●…not 〈◊〉 two hundreth a yeare , kepe that house that we might haue done with CC. markes but 〈◊〉 . yeares past . And 〈◊〉 we are forced either to minishe the third part of our housholde , or to raise the third part of our reuenewes , and for that we cannot so doe of our owne landes that is already Why Gentlemen do●… take Farmes into their handes . in the hands of other men , many of vs are enforced either to keepe peeces of our owne Landes when they fall in our owne possession , or to purchase some Farme of other mens landes , and to store it with sheepe or some other cattell to help to make vp the decay of our 〈◊〉 , and to mainetayne our olde e●…ate withall , and yet all is litle ynough .

Husband .

Yea , those sheepe is the cause of all these 〈◊〉 , for they haue driuen hus●… out of the co●…trey , by the which was increased before all kinde of 〈◊〉 , & now all together Complaint against sheepe . sheepe , sheepe , sheepe ▪ It was farre better when there were not only shēepe ynough , but also 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , swyne , Pig , Goose ▪ & Cayon , 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cheese : yea , and ●…de 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 corne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , reared all ●…ogether vpon the same lande .

Doctor .

Then the Doctor that had leaned on his Elbowe all th●… while musing , sat vp and sayd , I perceaue by you all three , that there is none of you but haue iu●… cause to complaine .

Capper .

No by my troth except it be you , men of the church , which trauaile nothing for your lyuinge and yet haue ynough .

Doctor .

Yee say troth in deede , we haue least cause to cōp●…ne : yet yee know well , we be not so plentious as we haue b●…ne , The Doctors complaynt for men of his càlling . the first fruits & tenthes are deducted of our liuings , yet of the rest we might liue wel ynough , if we might haue quietnes of minde & conscience withall . And albeit we labour not much with our bodies ( as yee say ) yet yee know we labour with out mindes , more to the weaking of the same , then by any other bodily exercise we should do , as yee may wel perceiue by our c●…plexions , how wan our colour is , how faint and sikely be our bodyes , & all for lacke of bodily exercise .

Capper .

Mary I woulde if I were of the Queenes counsell , prouide for you well a fine , so as you should neede take●… no disease 〈◊〉 against le●…ed men . for lacke of exercise , I woulde set you to the Plough and Carte , for the deuill a whit of good 〈◊〉 doe with your studies , but set men together by the Eares , some with this opinion & some with that , some holding this way , & some an other , and that so stifly as though the troth must be as they say that haue the vpper hand in contencion , & this contencion is not also the least cause of former vprores of the people , some holding of y● one learning & some of that other . In my minde it made no matter though we had no learned men at all .

Knight .

God forbid neighbour that it should be so : how should the Prynce haue 〈◊〉 then : how should we haue christian religion taught vs : how should we know the estates of ot●…er realmes & haue conference with them of al countryes , except it were through learning , & by the bene●…t of Letters .

Doctor .

Care not therefore goodman capper , yee shall haue few ynoungh of learned men ●…in a while if this world hold on .

Capper .

I meane not but I would haue men to learne to wryte & reade , yea & to learne the languages vsed in countries about vs that we might write our minds to them & they to vs , yea and that wee might reade the holy scriptures in our mother tongue , & as for your preaching ( except yee agree better ) it made no matter howe litle wee had of it , for of dyuersity thereof cometh these diuersities of opinions ,

Doctor .

Then yes care for no other sciences at all , but the knowledge of tongues , and to wryte & reade , and so it appeares well that yee be not alone of that mynde , for nowe a dayes when men sendes their sonnes to the Uniuersities they suffer Why leàrning should be l●…e to decay hereafter . them no longer to tary there , than they may haue a litle of the latin tongue , & then they take them away & bestow them to be Clarkes with some man of Lawe or some Auditor , and Receyuer , or to be a Secretary with some great man or other , and so to come to a lyuing whereby the Uniuersities be in maner empti●…d , and as I thinke will be occasion that this Realme within a shorte space will be made as empty of wyse and pollitique men , and consequently barbarous , and at the last thrall and subiect to other Nations whereof wee were Lordes before .

Knight .

God forbid that wee that bee Gen●…emen shoulde not with our pollicy in warre prouide that we come not in sub iection of any other nation , and the stoutnesse of Englyshe heartes will neuer suffer that , though there were no learned men in the Realme at all .

Doctor .

Well , an Empyre or a Kingdome is not so much won , or kept by the manhode and force of men , as it is by wysedome and policy , which is gotten chiefly by learning : for Whether a commonweale 〈◊〉 be well go 〈◊〉 without lear●… . wee see in all kindes of gouernaunce for the most part , the wyser sorte haue the soueraygnty ouer the rude & vnlearned , as in euery house the most expert , in euery City the wisest & most sage , and in euery common weale the most learned are most commonly placed to gouerne the rest , yea , among all nations of the worlde they that be polytique and cyuile doe mayster the rest though their forces be inferior to the other . The Empyres of the Greekes & Romaines doe declare that , among whom lyke as learning and wysedome That the learned haue alway the soue●…ignty ouer the vnlearned . was most esteemed so the Empyres were spread widest , and longest did continue of all other . And why should you thinke it straung that you might more be vanquyshed than the other were before time that reckened themselues as stoute men as you be , yea dwellers of this realme , as the Saxons last were by the Normands , and the Romaynes by the Saxons afore that , & the Brytons by the Romaynes fyrst of all .

Knight .

There may bee wyse men ynough though they bee not learned . I haue knowne diuerse men very wise & politique that know neuer a letter on the booke , and contrary wyse as many other learned men that haue bene very Idots in maner for any worldly policy that they had .

Doctor .

I deny not that , but I say that if such wyse men as yee speake of had learninge to their wits , they had bene more excellent . And the other that yee call so simple had be●…e Whether a man may be wyse without learning . foolyshe if they had had no learninge at all . Exercyse in warres maketh not euery man meete to bee a Captayne , though hee trauayle in it neuer so longe , nor there is no other so apt for the warre but with experience and vse he is made more perfit , for what maketh old men commonly more wise than the younger sort , but their greater experience .

Knight .

Yea , experience helpeth much the wit of men I confesse . But what doth learning thereto ?

Doctor .

If yee graunt mee that experience doth help , then I doubt not but yee will graunt mee a none that learninge doth also help much to the increase of wisd●…me : let that then That lear●…ng supplieth the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , & that 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of Wysedome . be set for a sure grounde that experience doth further wisdome , & take it as it were the father of wisedome , & memory to be the mother . For like as experience doth beget wisdome as a father , so memory nourisheth it as a mother , for in vayne should experience be had if the same were not kept in remembraunce . Then if I can shew you that both experience and also memory are holpen and furthered by learning , then yee must needes graunt mee that learning furthers wit and increaseth it , yee confesse the experience of an olde man maketh him wiser than the younge , because hee sawe mo things then the other . But an olde man seeth but only things of his owne time , & the learned man seeth not onely his owne times experience , but also that be fell in a great many of his auncestors , yea since the worlde began . Wherefore he must ne●…des haue more experience then the vnlearned man , of what great age so euer he be , them so many cases as hee seeth in all that time to haue hapned could not so well be remembred of any man , as it is kept in memory by wrytings , and then if the vnlearned man once forget the thinge hee sawe , hee neuer lightly remembers it againe , where as the learned man hath his booke alwayes to call him to remembraunce of that hee should els forget . Therefore as he that lyueth a hundreth yeare must needes haue more experience then hee that liueth fifty , so hee that seeth the chaunces of the world as it were in a table paynted afore him of a thowsand yeres , must needes haue greater experience then he that liueth but a hundreth . Also he that trauaileth many farre Countryes hath more experience than other of like age that neuer goeth out of his natiue countrey . So he that is learned seeth by Cosmogragraphy hystories , and other learnings , the right maner & ●…age of euery countrey in the world , yea of many moe then is possible for one man to trauayle through , and of these that he trauayleth much better doth hee learne there by small tarying , then the other ( by longer experience ) that are all together and wholly vnlearned , and consequently more wit , being in capacity and memory both els equipolent , & now I am forced to consider the maruaylous gyftes that we haue by learning , that is , how learning supplyeth vnto man the greatest lack that some Wryters haue complayned The wonderfull gyftes that we haue by learning . of to bee in man kinde , that is the breuity of Age , the grossenesse & waight of body : wherein the ●…irts , diuerse beastes as Hartes and many other , and in the last all Byrdes do excell man , for where it is deemed man to liue aboue a hundreth yeares or there aboutes : by the benesite of learning he hath the commodity of the life of a thowsand yeres , yea two or three thowsandes , by reason hee seeth the euents and occurrents of all the time by Bookes . And if he should haue lyued him selfe by all that space then coulde he haue had nothinge els to his commodity but that experience of things , the rest had ben but trauayle : which experience he hath nowe by letters and without any trauayle in manner at all , and without the daungers that hee might him selfe haue be●…e in , if he had liued by all that space . As to the other poynte , that wee be not so agill and light as fowles & Byrdes of the Ayre be of , as that we might sturre from on place to an other , wee haue the commodity through learning that we should purchase by such Peregrinations , as well as wee should if wee might flee from one Conatrey to another like Byrdes , and yet with lesse tra●…ayle and daunger . May wee not through Cosmography see the situation , temperature , and qualities of euery Countrey in the Worlde , yea , better and with lesse trauayle then if we might flee ouer them our selues : for that , that many other haue learned through their great trauayles , & daungers , they haue left to vs to be learned with ease & pleasure . Can wee not also throughe the science of Astronomy knowe the course of the Planettes aboue and their coniunctions and Aspectes as certaynely as if wee were amonge them ? is surely that we may , for tell me ? how came all the learned men here to fore to the exacte and perfit knowledge thereof ? came they not to it by conference , & marking of circūstāres ( yes in deade ) so that out of their writings we learned it : and to the knowledge whereof by sight onely wee could●… neuer attayne though wee were as agile as any Byrde . What is there els profitable or necessary for the 〈◊〉 of mans lyfe heere in earth , but in learning it is taughte That there is no fac●…lty b●…t is made more perfect by learning . more perfectly and more compleat than any man can learne onely by experience all dayes of his lyfe , no not so much as your Feate in warre syr Knight , no nor your Feate good . Husbandman , but that either of them are so exactly taught and set forth in learninge , that neither of you both though , yee be neuer so perfect in the said feates , but might learne many poyncts moe than euer yee saw before , by experience in either of them , as you sir Knight in Vigetius , and you good Husbandman in Columella .

Knight .

I say agayne , might wee not haue that in our Englysh tongue , & reade them ouer though we neuer went to schole .

Doctor .

Yea well ynough , and yet shoulde yée be farre from the perfect vnderstanding of them , except yee had the help of other sciences , that is to say , of Arithmatique in disposinge : and ordering your men , and Geomatry in deuising of Ingens How Caesar excelled all other captaines by reason of his great learning ioyned with his prowesse . to wynne Townes , and Fortrasses , and of Brydges to passe ouer , in the which Caesar excelled other by reason of the learning that hee had in those sciences , and did wonderfull feates which an vnlearned man coulde neuer haue done , and if yee had warre ouer the Sea , howe coulde ye●… knowe towards what Coastes yee bee sea dryuen without knowledge of the latitude of the plate by the Poole and the length by other starres , and you good husband for the perfection of the knowledge of husbandry , had neede of some knowledge in Astronomy , as vnder what aspect of the Planets and in the entry of what signe , by the Sunne & Moons it is time to Care , to Dounge , to Sowe , to reape , to Se●… , to Graffe , to Cut your Wood , your Tymber : yea , to haue some iudgment of the Weather that is lyke to come for Inning of your Corne , and Grasse , and houseinge of your Cattell : yea , of some part of Phisick called Veterimaria , whereby yee might knowe the dizeases of your Beastes & heale them . Then for true measuring of lande , had yee not neede of some knowledge in Gcomatry to bee a perfit husband , Then for building , what Carpenter or Mazon is so cunning or expert , but hee might learne more by readinge of Vitriuius and other wryters of Architecture , that is to say , the scyence of building , and to passe ouer the sciences of Log●…cke & Rethorique , whereof the first trauayleth about y● discus●… of the true reason from the false , the other about the perswasion of that is to be set forth to the people , as a thinge to them profitable and expedient , where of a good and perfit counsaylor might want neither : well , tell me what ●…sayle can be perfit , what common weale can be well ordered vprighte , where none of the Rulers or Counsaylors haue studied any Philosophy , specially the parte that teacheth That knowledge in moral philosophy is most necessary for a Counsallor . of manners ( the other parte of philosophy I passe ouer now , which teacheth of natures and is called phisick ) what parte of the common weale is neglected by philosophy morall : doth it not teach first how euery man should gouerne himselfe honestly . Secondly how he should guide his family wisely and profitably . And thirdly , it sheweth how a City or a Realme , or any other commonweale should bee well ordered and gouerned , both in time of peace , and also warre . What commonweale can be without either a Gouerner or Counsaylors that should bee expert in thys kinde of learning , this confirmeth the poynt that we now talke of : if men expert in this Science were consulted and followed , the common weale shoulde bee ordered as fewae should haue cause to complaine : therefore sayd Plato that Plato . diuine Philosopher , that happy is that Commonweale where either the Prince is a Philosopher , or where a Philosopher is the Prince .

Knight .

I had weened before that there had bene no other learninge in the world , but that these men had that be Doctors of Diuinity , or of the Lawe , or of Phisicke : whereof the first had all his cunning in Preaching , the second in maters of the spirituall lawe , and the third in phisicke and in loking of dizeased mens water , mary yee tell me now of many other sciences very necessary for euery common weale , which I neuer heard of before : but either there be fewe of these Doctors that can skill of them , or els they disclose but litle of their cunning .

Doctor .

Of truth there be to fewe of them that can skill of these sciences now a dayes , & of those there be too fewe of them that are esteemed any thing the more for their knowledge therein , or called for to any counsell . And therefore other seeing these Sciences nothing esteemed or set by , they fall to those sciences that they see in some pryce , as to Diuinity , to the Lawe , and to Phisicke : though they cannot bee perfit What maketh learned men to be so sewe . in none of these without the knowledge of the sciences aboue touched , and therefore it is ordayned by Uniuersities , that first men should bee Bachelers and Maisters of Artes , ere they should come to Diuinity : and these Artes be the seuen liberall sciences , as Grammer , Logicke , Rethoricke , Arithmatique , Geomatry , Musicke , and Astronomy , and now they skip ouer them and fall to Diuinity by and by , before they haue gotten or purchased them any Younge stu●…ents bee allwales ouer hasty in vttering their iudgments . iudgment through thefore sayd sciences , which maketh them to fall to these dyuersities of Opinions that yee speake of : for all beginners in euery science be very quicke , and ouer hasty in geuing their iudgment of thinges , ( as experience teacheth euery man ) & then , when they haue once vttered their iudgments & opinions , they will see nothing that will ●…ounde contrary to the same , but eyther they will construe it to their own phantaste , or vtterly deny it to be of any authority . Pythagoras , Pythagoras commaunded ●…lence to his disciples for a time . to his Scholers that came to learne his Prophane sciences commaunded silence for seuen yeares , that by all the space they should be hearers onely , and no reasoners : and in this Diuine science euery Boye that hath not red scripture past halfe a yeare , shal be suffered not onely to reason and enquire of things ( for that were tollerable ) but to affirme newe and straunge interpretacio●…s vpon the same neuer heard of before . What ende of Opinions can there bee while this is suffered . Also Plato forbad any man to Plato cōma●…ded that no man ignoraunt in Geomatry should enter his schoole . come to his schoole that was ignoraunt in Geomatry , and to this high schoole of Dyuinity hee that knoweth not his Grammer , much lesse any other science shall be admitted at the ●…irst , I say not to learne , for that might be suffered , but to iudge : and there commeth in the thinge that the same Plato sayeth to bee an onely cause sufficient to ouer throwe a whole Common weale where it is vsed , that is , when they take on them the iudgment of things to whom it doth not apertayne , as youth of thinges belonginge to What harme may come if they bee suffe●…ed to iudge in things to ●…hom it doth not appertayne . olde men , children ouer their fathers , seruaunts ouer their maisters , and priuate men ouer their Maiestrates : what Ship can bee longe sause from wracke where euery man will take vpon him to bee a Pylate : what house well gouerned , where euery seruaunt will be a maister and a teacher . I speake thus much of the commendation of learning , not onely because I heard my friend heere ( the Capper ) set litle by learninge , but also that I see many nowe a That it is not learning 〈◊〉 to know the tongues , & to wryte . dayes of his Opinion , which care nothinge for any other knowledge , but ●…nely that they may wryte and reade , and learne the tongues : whom I can resemble well to tho●…e men that esteemeth more the Ba●…ke than the Tree , the Shale more then the ●…yrnell : wherefore they seeme to take the bright Su●…e from the Earth , that would take away learning from vs : for the same is no more necessary for the increase of all thinges on earth , then is ●…earninge for the increase of Ciuility , Wisedome , and Policy amonge men . And asmuch as reasonable men doth excell all other creatures by the gyft of Reason , so much excelleth a learned man any other through the polishing and adorning of Reason by these Scyences .

Knight .

Of my fayth I am glad it was my chaunce to haue you in ●…y company at this time , for of a wise man , a man may alwayes learne . But mee thought yee sayde lately to my neighbour the Capper , that wee should haue learned men few ynough within a while if the world did continue . What ment yee thereby , and what should be the cause thereof .

Doctor .

I shewed you all ready one great cause of the same : that was , where I shewed you that most men were of that opinion , that they thought learning ynough to write & reade , Why learning should decay . another cause is that they see no preferment ordered for learned men , nor yet any honour or estimation geuen them like as hath bene in time past . But rather the contrary , the more learned , the more troubles , losses , & vexations they come vnto .

Knight .

God forbid . Howe so ?

Doctor .

Mary haue you not seene how many learned men haue bene put to trouble of late within this xx . or xxx . yeares , & all for declaring their opinions in thinges that haue rysen in controuersie , haue you not knowne when one Opinion hath bene s●…●…orth , and who so euer sayd against that , were put to trouble : and shortly after , when the contrary opinion was furthered and set forth , were not the other that prospered before put to trouble for saying their minds against this latter opinion : and so neither of both parties escaped but eyther first or last hee came to bee hit , of whether side soeuer he were , except it were some wetherwise fellows , that coulde chaunge their opinions as the more & stronger part did chaunge theirs : and what were they that came to these troubles , the singularest fellowes of both parties for there came no other to the concertacion of these things but such who seeing in steede of honour , and preferment , dishonour , and hinderaunce , recompenced for a reward of learning : wil any either put his childe to that science that may bring him no better fruite than this ? or what scholer shall haue any courrage to study to come to that ende : the rarity of scholers , and solitude of the Uniuersities doe declare this to be truer then any man with speach can declare .

Marchaunt .

Then I perceaue euery man ●…deth himselfe greeued at this time , & no man goeth cleare as farre as I can perceaue . The Gentleman that he cannot lyue on his Landes That euery 〈◊〉 findeth himselfe gree●…ed . onely as his father did before : the Artifficers cannot set so many a worke by reason all maner of victayle is so deere : the Husbandman by reason his Lande is deerer rented then before : then we that be Marchaunts pay much deerer for euery thing that commeth ouer sea : which great derth ( I speake in comparison of former times ) hath ben alwayes in a maner at a stay euer after that basenesse of our Englishe Coyne , which happened in the later yeares of Kyng Henry the eyght .

Doctor .

I doubt not but if any sorte of men haue licked themselues whole , yee be the same : for what oddes so euer there happen to bee in exchaunge of things , yee that bee Marchaunts That Marchaunts best 〈◊〉 themsel●… in euery 〈◊〉 . can espy it straight : for example , because yee touched somewhat of the Coyne , as loone as euer yee perceiue the price of that enhaunsed , yee by and by what was to bee wonne therein beyonde sea , raked all the olde Coyne for the most parte in the Realme , and founde the meanes to haue Of our olde Coyne 〈◊〉 ●…d . it caryed ouer , so as litle was lefte behinde within this Realme of such olde Coyne in a very shorte space , which in my Opynion is a great cause of this dearth that hath bene since of all things .

Knight .

How can that be what maketh it to the matter what sorte of Coyne we haue among our selues so it be currant from one hand to another , yea if it were made of Leather .

Doctor .

Yea , so men commonly say , but the truth is contrary , as not onely I coulde proue by common reason , but also the proofe & experience hath already declared the same : but nowe we doe not reason of the causes of these griefes , but what states of men bee grieued in deede by this dearth of Whether it 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Coyne bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of . things , and albeit I heare euery man sinde 〈◊〉 selfe grieued by it in one thinge or other , yet considering y● as many of them as haue wares to sell , voe enhaunse as much in the pryce of thinges that they sell , as was enhaunsed before in the prices of things that they must buy : as the Marchaunt if he buy deere hee will sell deere aga●… : so these Arti●…cers , as Cappers , 〈◊〉 , ●…homakers , and Fa●…mers haue respect large ynough in s●…ge their wares to the price of v●…tayle , ●…ooll , & Iron , which they buy , I haue seene a Cap for xiiii . pence as good as I can get now for it . shillings sixe pence : of cloth yee haue heard how the price is rysen . Now a payre of shooes cost twelue pence , yet in my time I haue bought a better for sixe pence . Now I can get neuer a horse shooed vnder ten pence or twelue pence , where I haue als●…ne the common pryce was sixe pence . I cannot therefore vnderstande that these men haue greatest griefe by this common and vniuersall dearth , but rather such as haue their Lyuinges and Stypendes rated What men are most 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 ●…ōmon ●…th . at a certaynty , as common Laborers at eight pence a day , I ourneymen of all occupations , seruing men to forty shy●…ngs a yeare : and 〈◊〉 whose landes are set out by them and their Auncestors , either for lyues or for terme of yeares , so as they cannot enhaunce the rents thereof though they would , and yet haue the pryce enhaunsed to them of e●…ry thing that they buy . Yea , the Prynce of whom wee speake nothing of all this while , as she hath most of yearely T●…at 〈◊〉 Pr●…nce h●…th 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 c●…mmon ●…th . R●…newes and that certayne , so should she haue most losse by this dearth , and by the alteration specially of the Coyne , for like as a man that hath a great number of ser●…ts vnder him if he wou●…d grasit that th●…y should pay him pinnes weekely , where before they payde him pence , I thinke he should be most looser himselfe : so wee bee all but gatherers for the Prince , and of that which commeth to vs , wee haue but euery man a poore liuinge , the cleare gaynes commeth for the most part to the Prince , now if h●…r highnes doe take of vs the ouerplus of our gettinges in th●…s base Coyne , I reporte me to you wether y● will go as farre as good Money in the Prouision of necessaries for her selfe and the Realme . I thinke plainely no , for though her grace might within this realme haue thinges at her owne price , as her grace cannot in deede without great grudge of her Maiesties subiects , yea since her Maiesty must haue from beyonde the Seas many thinges necessary , not onely for her graces houshold , and Ornaments aswell of her person What daunger ●…hould it be to the Realme if the P●…ince should want 〈◊〉 in time ●…f neede . and family , as of her horses which percase might bee by her Grace somewhat moderated : but also for the furniture of her warres , which by no meanes can be spared , as Armor of all kindes , Art●…llary , Ankers , Cables , Pitch , Carre , Iron , Steele , ( yea , I iudge farther ) some Handgunnes , Gunne powlder , and many other thinges moe than I can recken , which her Grace sometimes doth buy from beyonde the Seas , at the prices that the straungers will set them at : I passe ouer the enhaunsment of the charges of her Graces housholde which is common to her Grace withall other noble men , therefore ( I say ) her Maiesty should haue most losse by this common dearth of all other : and not onely losse , but daunger to the Realme and all her subiects , if her Grace should want ●…reasure to purchase the sayde Prouision and necessaries for warre , or to finde Souldiers in time of neede , which passeth all that other priuate losses that wee speake of .

Capper .

Wee heere say that the Queenes Maiestyes mint maketh vp her losses that way , by the gaynes which she hath by the Mint another way , and if that bee to shorte shee supplieth that lacke by Subsidies , and impositions of her Subiects , so as her Grace can haue no lacke , so longe as her Subiectes hath it .

Doctor .

Yee say well there , so long as the Subiects haue it , so it is meete the Queene should haue as long as they haue it : but what and they haue it not , for they cannot haue it , Howe the Queene : Maie●…y cannot 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when her sub●…ects h●…e none . when there is no Treasure lefte within the Realme , and as touchinge the Mint , I coumpt that profit much like , as if a man woulde take his woode vp by the rote to make the more profit thereof at one time , and euer after to lose the profit that might growe thereof yearely : or to pull the wooll of his sheepe by the roote , and as for the Subsidies , howe To what profit the new Mint is like . can they be large when the Subiects haue litle to departe with : & yet the way of gathering treasure is not alwayes most saufe for the Prynces suerty : and wee see many times the profits of such Subsidies spent in the appeasing of the people that are mooued to sedition , partely by occasion of the same .

Knight .

Nowe that it was our chaunce to me●…te with so wise a man as yee be , Maister Doctor . I would wee did go thorough with the whole discourse of this matter , & as hetherto wee haue ensearched the very sores , and grieues that euery man feeleth : so to try out the 〈◊〉 of them , and the causes once knowne , the remedy of them might be soone appa rent and though we be not the men that can reforme them , yet percase some of vs may come in place where wee may aduertise other of the same that might further and helpe forward the redresse of these thinges .

Doctor ,

A Gods name I am content to bestowe this day to satisfie your pleasures , & though this communication ( percase ) should doe no great good , yet it can doe no harme I trust , nor offend no man , s●…h it is had be●…weene vs heere a parte and in good manner .

Knight .

No , what man should be angry with him that were in an house , and espied some faulte in the Beames , or Rafters of the same , and would ensearch the defa●…lt & then certifie the good man of the house thereof or some other A recapitulation of the common grief●… . dwelling therein , aswell for his owne sauegarde as for others : but for as much as wee haue thus farre prooceeded as to the findinge out of the griefes , which as farre as I perceaue standeth in these poyncts ( that is to say ) dearth of all things in comparison of the former age , though there be scarsenes of nothing , desolation of Countryes by Inclosures , desolacion of ●…wnes for lacke of occupations , and Craftes : and 〈◊〉 of Opinions in matters of Religion , which h●…leth men , to and fro , & maketh them to contend one against ano●…her . Nowe let vs goe to the Garden vnder the Uyne , where hauing a good freshe and coole sitting for vs , in the shadow , there wee may proceede further on this m●…tter atleasure . And I will be speake our Supper heere with myne host that wee may all suppe together . A Gods name ( quoth euery one of the rest of the company ) for wee are weary here of sitting so long . And so wee all departed to the Garden .

THE SECOND DIAalogue , wherein the causes or occasions of the sayd griefes are encreased . Knight .

WHen we had walked vp and downe in the sayd Garden a prety whyle , I thought long till I had hearde more of the sayd Doctors communication , for hee seemed to mee a very wise man , not after the common sort of these Clarks which can talke nothing but of the faculty that they professe : as if they 〈◊〉 Deu●…es , of diuinity : Lawyers of the lawe : & Phisitions of 〈◊〉 one●…y : this man spake very naturally of euery thinge , as a man v●…iuersally seene that had ioyned good learning with good wit , and therefore I desired him and the rest of our sayde companions to resorte agayne to the matter that wee left at , and first to discourse & search out what should be the causes of the sayd common and vniuersall dearth of all things ( in comparison of the former age ) saying to the Doctor thus . That it is a m●…ruaylous Dearth that commeth in time of plenty . I maruayle much maister Doctor what should be the cause of this dearth , seeing all thinges are ( thankes be to God ) so plentyfull . There was neuer more plenty of Cattell than there is nowe of all sortes . And yet it is scarsity of things which commonly maketh dearth : this is a maruaylous dearth , that in such plenty commeth contrary to his kinde .

Doctor .

Syr it is ( no doubt ) a thing to be mused vpon , and worthy of Inquisition : let mee heare euery one of your opinions , and than yee shall heare myne .

Husband .

I thinke it is longe of you Gentlemen , that this dearth 〈◊〉 , by rea●… yee enha●…e your lands to such a heyght The occasion of this dearth is layde to the Gentlemen . as men that liueth thereon must needes sell deere agayne , or els they were neuer able to make their Rent .

Knight .

And I say it is long of you Husbandmen , that wee are forced to rayse our Rents by reason we must buy so deere all things that wee haue of you , as Corne , Cattell , Gorse , From the Gentlemen it is layde to the Husbandmen . Pig , Cap●… , Chiken , Butter , and Egges . What thinge is there of all these but that yee sell it nowe deerer by the one halfe then yee did within these xxx . yeares ? cannot you neyghbour remember that within these xxx . yeres I could in this towne buy the best Pig or Goose that I could laye my hand on for four 〈◊〉 , which now costeth tweluepence , a good Capon for threepence , or fourepence , a Chiken for i. d. a Hen for ii . d. which now costeth mee double & triple the money ? it is likewise in greater ware , as Biefe & Mutten .

Husband .

I g●…aunt that , but I say you & your sorte , men of landes ●…re y● ●…rst cause her●…of by reason you rayse your landes .

Knight .

Well , if yee & your sorte will agree thereto , that shal be holpen , vnder take that you & your sorte will sell al things at the price yee did xxx . yeares agoe , & I doubt not to bring all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vn●… you their ●…andes at the ren●… they 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . yeares past ▪ and that 〈◊〉 fault is more in you that bee Husbandmen then in vs that ●…ee Gentlemen , it appeareth by this , all the landes of the Realme is not enhaunsed , for some haue takings therein , as Leases , or Copies The Gentlemens ex●…se and reasonable offer . not yet expyred , which cannot 〈◊〉 enhaunsed though the owners would , and some Noblemen and Gentlemen there be , that when their landes be at their disposition , yet they will enhaunse nothinge aboue the olde rent , so as a greate parte of the landes of the ●…ealme stand yet at the old rent : and yet neuer the lesse there is none of your sorte at all , but selleth all things they haue deerer then they were wont to doe by the one halfe . And yet these G●…ntlemen that doe en●… their rentes , doe not enhaunse it generally to the double though I confesse that some of vs that had 〈◊〉 either geuen vs by the Kings highnesse , that belonged heretofore to Abbeyes , and Priories , and were neuer surueyed to the vtter ●…ost before : or otherwise descended to vs , haue enhaunsed any of them aboue the old rent ▪ yet all y● 〈◊〉 teth not to halfe the landes of the Realme .

Doctor .

How say yee ? he sayeth well to you nowe : will yee sell your wares as yee were ▪ wont to doe , and hee ▪ will let you haue his lande at the rent yee were accustomed to haue it . When the Husbandman had pawsed a whyle , hee sayd .

Husband .

If I had the price of euery thing that I must pay for besides , likewise brought downe , I could be content : els not .

Doctor .

What thinges bee those ?

Husband .

Mary , Iron for my Plough , Harrowes , and Cartes : tarre for our sheepe : shooes , cappes , linnen & wollen clat●… The husbandman refuseth and putteth ouer the faulte to Iron Mong●… , and clothiers . for my meany , which if I should buy neuerthelesse as ●…re as I doe now , and yet sell my wares good cheape , though my rent were thereafter abated , except the other thinges aforesayd might hee abated in pryce to gether , I could neuer lyue .

Doctor .

Then I perceaue yee ▪ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 y● 〈◊〉 of other ▪ things qualified aswell as the rent of ●…r land , ere yee 〈◊〉 aford your ware good cheape .

Husband .

Yea , ( but sir ) I thinke if the land were brought downe that the pryce of all things would fall withall .

Doctor .

Grauut that all the Landlords in this realme would●… withone assent agree that their landes should bee in their ●…naunts handes , at like rent as they were at xxx . yeares agoe : yee sayd afore yee coulde not yet sell your wares as good cheape as yee mighte xx . yeares past , because of the pryce that is raysed in other things that yee must buy : and if yee would say that those men should be driuen againe to sell those wares that yee buy , first better cheape , and then yee will sell youres thereafter . I pray you how might they be 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 be 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 within If all Land●…●…vere abated in their re●…t , whether this d●…th would be remedied . obedience of our so●… Lady , that 〈◊〉 sell such wares , as Iron , Car●…e , Flaxe , and other : then consider mee , if yee ●…not so compell them , whether it were exuedient for vs 〈◊〉 suffer 〈◊〉 to 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & wee ours good , 〈◊〉 : if it were so ▪ than it were a greate That it were not , expedient that straungers should sel deere and we ours good cheape . ●…ything of other cou●…treyes , and unpouerishinge of our owne , for they should haue much Treasure for theirs , and haue our commodities from vs for a very litle : except yee could deuise to make one price of pur commodities among ●…ur ielues , and another outwardes , which I cannot see how it may bee .

Knight .

Nay , I will make my Neyghbour beere , another reasonable offer , if hee refuse this : let my Cenauntes rent bee●… A nother offer of the Gentleman made to the Husbandman . ●…eased as your payment ▪ is increased , after the rate and yet I am ●…ed .

Husband .

What meane yee by that ?

Knight .

I meane this , yee sell that yee were wont to sell a foretime for xx . grotes , now for xxx . let my rent bee increased after that proportion and rate that is foreuery xx . groots of olde rent x ▪ shillings , and so as the pryce of your wares 〈◊〉 , and yet I doe but keepe my lande at the olde stent .

Husband .

My bargayne was to pay for my holde , but vi . poundes xiii . shillinges , iiii . d. yearely of rent , and I pay that truely , yee can require no more of mee .

Knight .

I cannot much say agaynst that , but yet I perceaue I shal be still a loser by that bargayne though I cannot tell the reason why : but I perceiue yee sell deerer that yee liue on , and I good cheape that which is my liuing : help me Mayster Doctor I pray you , for the Hushandman driueth mee to the Wall .

Doctor .

Mary but mee thinketh touching the matter yee did reason of , yee draue him to his shifts , that is , to confesse that this dearth ryseth not at your hand . And though he do defend him selfe for his payment to you by colour of a lawe , yet he seemeth to cōnfesse thus much , that the lawe compelleth you to take litle for your land , & that there is no lawe to restrayne him , but hee may sell his wares as det●…s ▪ he le●…eth : it is ynough for our purpose that yee tooke in hand to proue that this dearth rose 〈◊〉 first at your hande , Whether if the Husbandman were forced to abate the prices of his stuffe this dearth should be then mended . but whether the pryces of thinges increasing as they doe ▪ it were reason yee did rayse your wares ( which is ▪ your lande ) or to bee payde after the olde rate : whan yee did set your land , if yee be compelled to pay for yo●… prouision after the new rate , we will talke of that heere after , or let y● to be considered of other wise men : but now let vs see if the Husbandman were forced to sell his thinges good cheape whether all thinges shoulde bee well then . Our Englishe Coyne being supposed to be base , and of no such estimation in other countryes as within our owne Realme ( as for the most parte it hath bene ) before that it was restored by our noble Prince which nowe raygneth : put the case this , that this husbandman should be commaunded to sell his wheate at viii . d. the bushell , ●…ye at vi . d. Bareley at iiii . d. his pig and goose at iiii . d. his capon at iiii . d. his 〈◊〉 at 〈◊〉 h●…s Wooll at a marke the Todde , 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 after the olde pryces as in time past haue bene : he hath then ynough to pay his Landlord , as hee had in time past : his Landlorde agayne hath as much ●…ent as hee was wont to haue : and the same when the pryce is so set , will goe as far for the sayd wares , whereof the pryces be thus set as so much of olde Coine , pa●…de after the olde wont would haue done : all this is yet well , heere is yet neither Lord , nor ●…naunt grieued : well let vs goe farther , the Husbandman must buy Iron , Salt , Tarre , Pitch , and suppose hee should bee also forced to reare vp Flaxe on his owne , and that 〈◊〉 of cloth both Linnen , & Wollen , & Leather were set after the rate . The Gentleman must buy Wynes , Spices , Silkes , 〈◊〉 , Glasse to glase his house withall ▪ Iron also for Tooles , Weapons , and other Instruments necessary , as Salt , Oyles , & many other diuerse thinges ; more then I 〈◊〉 without 〈◊〉 : whereof they may in 〈◊〉 wise want , as Iron , & Salt , for of the which is within 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of both , is not halfe su●… for the same : 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , Pitch , & Rozyn , whereof ▪ wee haue none at all , and without some other of the said commodities wee could liue but , grosly ▪ and Barbarously , as without 〈◊〉 , Spyces , & Silkes , these must bee brought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the S●…as , shall wee buy them as good cheape after the 〈◊〉 ? A man would th●…ke yes , for whe●… straungers should see that with lesse money then they were wont to take for these wares , they may buy as much of the commodities of this realme as they were w●…e afore with more money ▪ they will bee 〈◊〉 to take the lesse money when it ▪ goeth as farre as the more went before , and so sell their wares as good cheape : ( as for an example ) if they sell nowe a yard of ●…luet for xx . s. or xxii . s. and payeth that for a ●…odde of Wooll , were it not as good for them then to sell their Ueluet at a marke 〈◊〉 yarde , so th●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…dde of ●…ooll fo●… a marke ?

Knight .

I would thinke so , for thereby hee should be at no more losse then hee is now . And so the like reason may serue for Iron , Wynes , Salt , Spice , Oyles , Pitch , Carre , flexe , Waxe , and all other out●…arde commodities .

Doctor .

If I should aske ▪ you this 〈◊〉 , whether they should bee compelled by a lawe to fill their wares so or no : what could yee say ?

Knight .

It maketh no matter whether it were so or no , & I think they cannot , because theybe out of the Princes Dominion , and at liberty , whetherthey will ●…ing any thinge to vs or no , but seeinge they may haue all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as good cheape at tha●… pr●…e ▪ they sell for lesse money , as they had before for the greater ●…ice they will willingly bring their 〈◊〉 and sell them so .

Doctor .

Thereof I doubt , vpon the former supp●…ion of ou●… 〈◊〉 Coyne , for ●… thinke they woulde sell still at the highest as they doe now , or bring nothinge at all to vs . For yee must The straungers will take but money currant euery where ●…or their ware hat they haue on their charge vnderstand they come not alwayes for our commo●…ities , but so●…etimes to fell theirs heere , 〈◊〉 it heere tooke 〈◊〉 vendible and to buy in other co●…es other com●…dities where the same is best ●…heape , & some times to s●…ll in one parte of the Realme their wares that bee there most de●…red , and to goe to some other parte of the realme for the commodities that 〈◊〉 there most abundaunt and best cheape●…or partly of our Countrey & partly of another , and for the purpose Come vn●…uersally currant is most cōmodtous , specially if they entend to bestow it in any other place , than where they were vnladen of their marchaundize . Now if our coine were not so alowed in other places as it is heere , the strafiger should be at greater losses , if he should take our coyne for his wares , he had ●…auer bring his wares to other places , where hee might haue Coyne currant in all places for it , that he might bestowe where and when hee list . If they woulde looke but for our wares for theirs , thinke yee that they would not 〈◊〉 to bring to vs such wares or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be best cheape with them , & most deere with vs .

Knight .

Yea no doubt , that is the polisie of all Marchaunts .

Doctor .

What stuffe is that trowe you ?

Knight .

Mary Glasses of all sorte , paynted Clothes , & Papers , Orenges , Pippens , 〈◊〉 , perfumed Gloues , & such like try●…es .

Doctor .

Yee say well , they will percase attempt vs with such , & such thinges as are good cheape with them , it co●…th but That straungers and all 〈◊〉 bring thinges that bee ●…est cheape to them and deerest with vs . their laboures onely and their peoples , which els should be idle , yet these things be some what after the price in other places v●…ndible as well as heere . But wh●…n wee feele the lacke of Iron , Steele , Salt , Hempe , Flaxe , & such other , such light wares as yee speake of will not be desired here , but rei●…cted , and these other looked for : what other things els will they bring trowe you ?

Knight .

Percase yee meane , Silkes , Wynes , and Spy●…s ?

Doctor .

No not that , for those bee in good price els where .

Knight .

●…hat then should they haue to vtter to vs , that is best cheape with them and deerest with vs ?

Doctor .

Brasse , for it should go with them but for Brasse in deede , and therefor●… good cheape , and heere with vs a great part for Siluer , and ther●…fore deere with vs , and that they would bringe vnto vs .

Knight .

How , in brasse Pots , Pans , and other Uessel of brasse ?

Doctor .

Not so : no man would take such Stuffe but for Brasse in deede .

Knight .

How then ? Then the Doctor tolde mee , that it was in Coyne made beyonde sea like in all thinges to our Coyne , which they brought ouer in heapes , and when they see that Doctor . esteemed heere as siluer , th●…y bringe that for our commodities , as , for our Woo●…es , felles , Cheese , butter , ●…loth , Tinne , and Ledde , which thing euery man will bee glad to ●…ell for the most they can get : and beinge offered of straungers mo●…e of our Coine then they may get within the coum trey , they wil sell them to straungers rather then vs with whom the price is set : then straunge●…s may aforde the Coine good cheape , for they make it them selues , and the Stuffe is good cheape that they make it of , and so they will geeue thereof for our sayde commodities as much as yes will aske . Then though they made not such Coyne themselues , yet seeing they must pay more for our wares , or els no man would bring them to them , when hee may haue as much at ●…ome of his neighbours , the straungers must needes haue a consideration of that in the price of the sayd outwa●…de marchaundize that they sell , & also holde them dcerer . And thus by the one way they may exhaust our chiefe commodities , and gieue vs brasse for them , where with wee cannot buy such other like necessary commodities againe , as wee shoulde want if they were not plenty wythin our Realme . Much li●…e the exchaunge that Homer sayeth Glaucus made with Glauci & 〈◊〉 perm●…tatiō . Diomèdes , when he gaue to this man his golden Harnesse for Brasen . But that other way they must needes be brought to sell their w●…res deerer to vs , and then if this husbandman and Ge●…tleman , and so all other within this realme should be compeiled to sell their thinges good cheape , and He that s●…lles good cheape and 〈◊〉 deere s●…ll not lightly 〈◊〉 . yet buy all thinges deere that commeth from beyonde the Sea : I cannot see how they should long prosper , for I neuer knew him that bought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 soulde good cheape , and vse it any long space , to thriue ▪

Knight .

There may be searchers made for such Coyners as yee speake of comming in , and punishments deuised therefore , and for going forth of ●…ictayles also , that none shall passe this Realme .

Doctor .

There may be no ●…euise imagined so strong , but that yee may be deceaued in both those points , as wel in such coyne brought in , as in victailes caried forth : for many heads wil deuise many wayes to get any thing by , & though wee bee enuyroened with a good Poole ( that is the Sea ) yet there It is not possible to keepe our Treasure from going forth of the Realme , if it be in m●…re esti mation el●… where . is to many Posterns of it to get out and in , vnwares of the maister . Whosoeuer hath but a prety hous●… with any Family of his owne , and but one Gate to go forth and come in at , and the maister of the house neuer so attentiue , yet somewhat shal be purloined forth , much more out of such a larg Realme as this is , hauinge so many wayes and Posterns to goe forth at and come in . And yet if straungers shoulde be content to take but our wares for theirs , what shoulde let them to aduaunce the prices of their wares , though ours were good cheape vnto them , and then shall wee be still losers and they at the winning hand with vs , while they sell deere and buy good cheape , and consequently enrych themselues and impouerishe vs . Yet had I leauer aduaunce our wares in price as they aduaunce theirs ( as wee nowe doe ) thoughe some bee loosers thereby , but yet not so many as should bee the other way . And yet , what businesse shoulde there be in making of prices of euery trifle , for so it would be , if the price of any one thing●… bee a bate●… by cōma●…ment : That the de●…th ●…ose neither at the Gentleman 〈◊〉 Husband●… h●…d . and the●…efore I cannot perceaue that it may bee remedied by either of you both ( I meane you Gentleman , & you good hus●…andmā ) for if it rose at either of your hands , so it might be remedied like wise at the same , by 〈◊〉 the thing agayne at either of your handes that was the cause of this dearth . But if either you should relea●… your rent , or you the price of your ●…ictayle to the olde rate , yet that couldenot compell ●…raungers to bring downe the price of Permutation of thinges b●… fore Coyne . theirs as I haue sayde : and so longe as their commodities be deere , it were neither expedient nor yet ●…ould y●…e though yee woulde : make your commodities g●…d cheape ( except yee can deuise away how t●… liue without them & they with out you ) which I thinke unpossible : or else to vse exchaunge of ware for ware without Coyne ( as it was before Coyne was founde ) as I reade in the time of Homer it was , and also the Ciuile lawe both affirme the same , which were very combersome , and would require much cariage of ware vp and downe , where nowe by the benefit of Coyne a man may by those tokens fetch the wares that hee lacketh a far of , without great trouble of cariage : and hard were it readily to finde all wares that the one hath to pay the other , of equall value .

Husband .

●…f neither the Gentleman nor I may remedy this matter at whose hands lyeth it to bee holpen then ?

Doctor .

I will tell my mynde therein he ereafter , but first let vs boulte out the cause of this Dearth . And therefore let mee learne , what other thing should be the cause thereof .

Capper .

Mary these Inclosures , and great Pastures are a great cause of the same . Whereby men do tur●…e the erable land being a liuing for diuerse poore men before time , nowe t●… Complaynt against ●…pemaisters one mans hand , and where both Corne of all sorte , and also cattell of all kinds were reared aforetime , now there is nothing but onely sheepe . And in steede of C. or CC. persons that had their liuing thereon , now be there but three or foure Sheepherds and the Maister onely that hath a liuing thereof .

Doctor .

Yee touch a matter that is much to be considered , albe●… I take not that to be onely the cause of this dearth at this time ; but this I thinke in my minde , that if that kinde of inclosing 〈◊〉 asmuch incr●…ase in xxx . eyares to come , as it hath done in xxx . yeares past , it may come to the great desolation That Inclosures is the occasion of desolation & weaking the power of the Realme . and weaking of the strength of this realme , which is more to be feared than dearth , & I thinke it to be the most oc●… of any thing yee spake yet , of these wilde & vnhappy vprores that hath bene among vs : for by reason of these Inclosures many Subiectes haue no Grounde to liue vpon , as they had before time , and occupations be not alwayes set a worke all a like , and therefore the people still increasinge , and their ●…ings di●…inishing , it must nedes com●… to passe that a great part of the people shal be idle 〈◊〉 lacke liuinge , for hsiger is a bitter thing to beare . Wherefore they must needes whan they lacke , murmur agayne them that haue plenty , and so stirre these tumultes .

Knight .

Experience should seeme to proue playnely that Inclosures should be profitable and not hurtfull to the common weale : for we see the countreys where most Inclosiers be are Quod in cō●…ni possidetur ab om nibus negligitur . most wealthy , as Essex , Kent , North Damptonshyre . &c. And I haue heard a C●…ilion once say , that it was taken for a Maxime in his lawe ( this saying ) that which is possessed of many in common is neglected of all , & experience sheweth that ●…enaunts in common be not so good husbandes as Reasons to de ▪ 〈◊〉 when euery man hath his parte in seueralty , also I haue heard say that in the most countreyes beyonde the Sea , they knowe not what a common grounde meaneth .

Doctor .

I meane not of all Inclosures , nor yet ail co●…ins , but onely of such Inclosures as turneth comon & erable ●…elds into pasture , and violent Inclosures of commins without What kinde of Inclosures is hur●…ull . iust recompence of them that haue right to commen therein : for if land were seuerally enclosed to the ●…tent to continewe husbandry thereon , and euery m●…n that h●…th right to commen had for his portion a piece of the same to himself inclosed , I thinke no harme but rather good should come thereof , if euery man did agree ther●…to : but yet it woulde not be sodaynely done , for there be many poore cottages in England , which hauing no lands of their ow●… to liue one , but their handy labour and some refreshinge vpon the sayde commens , which if they were sodaynely thrust out from that commodity , might make a great 〈◊〉 and a disorder in the commonweale , and percase also if men were suffred to inclose their grounds vnder the pretence to keepe it still in tillage , within a while after they would turne all to Pasture , as wee see they doe nowe , too fast .

Knight .

If they finde more profit thereby then otherwise , why should they not ▪

Doctor .

I can tel why they should not welynough , for they may Wh●…her that wh●…h is p●…ble to one m●…y be pro●…ble to all o ther if they vse the same 〈◊〉 . not purchase themselues profit by the which may be hurtfull to other : but how to bring them that they would not so doe , is al the matter , for so long as they finde more profit by pasture then by tillage , they will still inclose and turne erable land to pastures . ( qd the Knight .

Knight .

That well may be restrained by lawes , if it were thought most profitable for the common weale , but all men doe not agree to that poynte .

Doctor .

I wot well they doe not , and therefore it were hard to make a lawe there●… : so many as haue profit by that matter resisting it . And if such a law were made , yet men studying still of there most profit , would defraud the lawe by one meane or other .

Knight .

I haue heard oftentimes much reasoning in this matter and some in maintenaunce of these Inclosures would make this reason , euery man is a Member of the commonweale , & that , which is profitable to one man may be profitable to another , if he would exercise the same feate . Therefore that which is profitable to mee & so to another , may be profitable to all , and so to the whole commonweale : as a great Masse of Treasure consisteth of many pence , and one penny added to another and so to the thirde and fourth &c. maketh vp a great summe , so doth each man added one to another make vp the whole body of a commonweale .

Doctor .

That reason is good adding some what more to it , true it is , that , the thing which is profitable to each man by himselfe , so it be not preiudiall to any other , is profitable to the whole commonweale , and not otherwise , or else stealing or robbing which percase is profitable to some men , were pro fitable to the commonweale , which no man wil admit , but this feate of inclosinge is so , that where it is profitable to one man it is preiudi●…all to many , therefore I thinke that reason sufficiently aunswered .

Knight .

Also they will laye forth another Reason , saying , that , the which is our owne commodity should bee alwayes aduaunced as much as might be , and these sheepes profit is one of the greatest commodity wee haue , therefore it ought to be aduaunced as high as it may bee .

Doctor .

I could aunswere that argument with the like reason as I did the other : true it is , we ought to aduaunce our owne commodity as much as wee can , so it bee not to as much Euery commo dity must bee aduaunced so as it be not preiudiciall to other greater commodities . more the hinderaunce of our other commodities . Or else where as the breede of Coneyes , Deere , and luch like is a commodity of this Realme . Yet if wee shoulde ●…urne all our erable grounde to nourishe that commodity , and geue vp the Plough and all other commodities for it , it were a great folly .

Knight .

They will say agayne , that all Groundes bee not meete for sheepe .

Doctor .

It is a very ill Grounde but either it serueth to breede sheepe , or to feede them vpon : and if al that is meete either for the one , were turned to the mayntenaunce of Sheepe and none other thing , where shall wee haue our other commodities growe ▪

Knight .

All cannot doe so , though some doe .

Doctor .

What should let them all to do the which they see some do , yea what should better encourage them thereto , than to see them that do it be come notable riche men in short t●…e by the doing thereof . And then if euery man should do so one following the example of another , what should ensue thereof but a meere solitude and vtter desolation of the whole realme : furnished onely with Sheepe , and Sheepherdes in st●…ede of good men : where by it might be a pray to the enemyes the first would set vpon it , for then the sheepe Maysters & their Sheepherds could make no resistaunce to the contrary .

Knight .

Who can let them to make their most aduauntage of the which is their owne ▪

Doctor .

Yes mary men may not vse their owne thinges to the damage of the commonweale : yet for all this that I see , it is a thinge most necessary to be prouided for , yet I cannot No m●…n may abuse his own things to the preiudice of the common ▪ weale . perceaue it should be the only cause of this dearth , for this Inclosinge and greate grasinge if it were occasion of that dearth of any thing ▪ it must be of Corne thiefly , and nowe these many yeares past we had Corne good cheape inough . And the dearth that was then most , was of cattell●… Biefes and Muttons , and the broode of thes●… are rather increased then diminished by Pastures and inclosinges .

Knight .

Why should men bee then so much offended with these Inclosures .

Doctor .

Yes & not without great cause , for thoughe these many yeares past through the great bounty of God , we haue had much plenty of Corne whereby it ha●…h bene good cheape ▪ one Acer bearing as much ●…orne as two mos●… commonly were wont to do : yet if these year●…s had chaunsed to be but meanely fruitfull of Corne ( no doubt ) we should haue had as great dearth of Corne as we had of other thinges . And then it had bene in a maner an vndoing of the ●…oore Commens . And if heereafter there should chaunce any ba●…n yeares of Corne to fall , wee should bee assuered to finde as greate extremity in the price of Corne from that it was wont to bee , as we finde now in the prices of other victayle . And specially if we haue not ynough to serue within the Realme which may happen hereafter more likely then in time past , by reason that there is much lande since turned to pasture , for euery man wil seeke where most aduauntage is , & they see there is most aduauntage in grasing and breeding , then in husbandry and tillage by a great deale . And so longe as it is so , the Pasture shall neuer incroch vpon tillage for all the lawes that euer can be made to the contrary .

Knight .

And how thinke yee that this might be remedied then ?

Doctor .

To make the profit of the plough to be as good , rate for rate , as the profit of the Grasier and sheepe maister is .

Knight ,

How coulde that be done ?

Doctor .

Mary I coniecture two manner of way●…s , but I feare me the deuises shall seeme at the first blush so displeasaunt How Inclosiers may be remedied without constraint of lawes . vnto you ere yee consider it throughly , that yee will reiect them ere yee examyne them : for we talke now , to haue things good cheape : and then if I should mencion a meane that should make some thinges deerer for the time I should be a none reiected , as a man that spake against euery mans purpose .

Knight .

Yet say your minde and spare not , and though your reason at the first seeme vnreasonable , yet we will heare whether yee can bring it to any reasonable ende .

Doctor .

Remember what we haue in hand to treate of , not how the prices of thinges onely may bee brought downe : but how these Inclosures may bee broken vp and husbandry more vsed : of the prices of thinges we shall speake heereafter .

Knight .

Wee will remember well that .

Doctor .

What maketh men to multiply pastures & ●…osures gladly .

Knight .

Mary the profit that groweth thereby .

Doctor .

It is very true and none other thinge . Then finde the meanes to doe one of these two thynges that I shall tell you . And yee shall make them as glad to exercise tillage , as they d●…e ●…e Pa●…ures .

Knight .

What be those two thinges ▪

Doctor .

Mary , either make as litle gaynes to growe by the Pastures as there groweth by the tillage . Or els make that there may growe as much profit by tillage as did before by the Pastures , and then I d●…ubt not but tillage shall be aswell cherished of euery man as Pasture .

Knight .

And how may that be done ▪

Doctor .

Mary the first way is to make that wooll to be of as base pryce to the breeders thereof , as the Corne is : and y● shal be , if yee make a like restraint of it for passing ouer Sea , vnwrought as yee make of Corne : another is to increase the rustome of Wooll that passeth ouer vnwrought . And by that the price of it shal be abated to the breeders , and yet the price ouer Sea shal be neuer ▪ thelesse : but that which is in●…eased That a like restraint of wool shuld be made as is of Co●…e , or none to be sent 〈◊〉 . in the pryce thereof on straungers shall come to the Queenes highnesse , which is as prefitable to the Realme as though it came to the breeders , and might relieue them of other subsidies . Thus farre as touchinge the bringing downe of the price of Woolles , now to the inhaunsinge of the price of corne , to be as good to the husbandman as wooll should be , and that might be brought to passe if yee wil let it haue as free passage ouer Sea at all times , as yee haue now for Wooll .

Marchaunt .

By the first two wayes , men woulde send lesse wo●…ll ouer sea then they doe nowe , and by that way the Queenes cu●…ome should be dyminished : by your latter way the price of Corne should be much enhaunsed , wherewith men would be much grieued .

Doctor .

I wot well it woulde bee deere at the firste , but if I can perswade you that it were reasonable , it were so , and that the same could bee no hinderaunce to the Realme vniuersally . but greater profit to the same , then I thinke see would be content it shoulde be so : and as touchinge the Queenes custome I will speake afterward .

Marchaunt .

I graunt if yee coulde shewe mee that .

Doctor .

I will assay it , albeit the matter bee somewhat intricate , and as I shewed you before , at the first vew would displease many , for they would say , woulde yee make Corne deerer then it is , haue wee not dearth ynough els without that : Nay I pray you finde the meanes to haue it better cheape if it may bee , it is deere ynough already , and such other like reasons would be sayd . But now let the husbandman aunswere such againe . Haue not you Grasters raysed the price of your Woolles , and Felles : and you Marchasit men , Clothiers , and Cappers , raysed the price of your marchaundize and wares , ouer it was wont to bee in manner Reasons why the Husbandman should be at like liberty as other to sell his wares . double , is it not as good reason then that we should raise the price of our Corne : what reason is it you should be at large and wee to bee restrayned . Eyther let vs all bee restrayned to gether , or els let vs bee all at lyke liberty , yee may sell your Wooll ouer Sea , your felles , your tallow , your Cheese , your Butter , and your Leather , ( which ryseth all by grasing ) at your pleasure , and for the deerest penny yee can get for them . And we shal not sell out our corne , except it be at x. d. the bushell or vnder , that is as much to say , as wee that be husbandmen shall not sell our ware except it be for nothing , or for so litle as we shall not be able to liue thereon . Thinke you if the husbandman here had spoke these words , that he did not speake them some what reasonable .

Husband .

I thanke you withall my heart , for yee haue spoken in the matter more then I could doe my selfe , and yet nothing but that is most true . Wee felt the harme , but wee wist not what was the cause thereof , many of vs sawe well long a goe , that our profit was but small by the Plough , & therefore diuerse of my Neighbours that had in time past , some two , some three , some foure Ploughes of their owne , haue layde downe some of them part , and some of them all their Ceemes , and turned either parte or al their erable ground to Pasture , and thereby haue waxed very riche men . And euery day some of vs incloseth some part of his ground to Pasture , and were it not that our grounde lyeth in the common That by breeding the husband hath mo●… cleare gaynes . fieldes entermingled one with another , I thinke also our fieldes had bene enclosed of common agreement of all the towneship longe or this time . And to say the very truth I that haue inclosed litle or nothing of my ground , coulde neuer be able to make vp my Lords rent , were it not for a litle herd that I haue of Ncate , sheepe , swyne , geese , and He●…es , that I doe reare vpon my grounde . Whereof because the price is somewhat round : I make more cleare profit then I doe of all my corne , & yet I haue but a very bare liuing , by reason that many thinges doe belong to husbandry , which bee now exceeding charg●…able ouer they were in tyme past .

Capper .

Though this reason of maister D●…ctors here doth please you well that be husbandmen , yet it pleaseth vs that be ar●…rs nothing at all , which buy most both breade Corne , and malte corne for our peny : and whercas ye maister doctor say that it were as good reason that the Husbandman should reyse the price of his corne , and haue as free vente of the same ouer sea , as we doe and haue of our wares : I cannot greately deny , but that yet I say that euery man hath 〈◊〉 of corne , but they haue not so much of other wares .

Doctor .

Therefore the more necessary that cor●…e is , the more bee the mea to be chearished that reareth it : for if they see there bee not so much profit in vsing the plough , as they see in other feates : thinke ye not that they will leaue that trade and fall to another that they see more profitable ? As yee may perceiue That pro●… ad 〈◊〉 all 〈◊〉 . by the doings of this honest mans neighbours , which haue tourned their 〈◊〉 land to pasture , because they see more profit by pasture : then by tillage . Is it not an old saying in Latin . Honos al●…t artes : that is to say profit or aduauncement Honos al●… Artes . no●…isheth euery facultie , whych saying is so true that it is alowed by the common iudgement of al men . Wee must vnderstand also that all thinges that should bee done in a common Weale , bee not to be forced or to be constrayned by the straight penalties of the lawe , but s●…me so , a●…d some either by alurement and rewardes rather . For what lawe can compell men to bee industrious in trauayle or labour of body , or studious to learne any science or know le●…ge of the mynde : to these thinges they may be well prouoked , encouraged , and allured : if they that be industrious That some thinge , are to be 〈◊〉 by 〈◊〉 and s●…me other with straighte 〈◊〉 forced in a ●…Weale a●…d painefull , bee rewarded well for their paines : and bee suffered to take gaynes and wealth as rewardes of their laboures , and so likewyse they that be learned bee aduaunced and honoured according to their forwardnes in Learning : euery man will then study either to bee indust●…ious 〈◊〉 b●…dely labour , or studious in thinges that pertaynes to knowledge . Take these rewards from them , & go about to compel them by lawes thereto , what man wil ploug●… or digg ▪ the ground or exercise any manuall arte wherein is any paine : or who will aduenture ouer seaes for any Marchaundise , or vse any facultie wherein any perill or daunger should be , se●…ing his reward shal be no more then his the sits still : but yee wil percase aunsw●…re me that all their reward shal not be taken away , but part of it . Yet then yee must gra●…t me that as if al these rewardes were taken from them , all these faculties must decaie , so if part of that reward be minished , the vse of these faculties shall minish withall after the rate , and so they shal be the lesse occupied , the lesse they be rewarded & esteemed . The lesse honor or profit is geuen to any ●…rte the le●…e it shal be frequented . But now to our purpose : I thinke it more necessary to deuise a meane how husbandry may be more occupied rather then lesse : which I cannot perceiue howe it may be brought to passe , but as men do see the more gaines therein the gladder they will occupie that feate , and this is to be true ( that some things in a common weale must be forced with paines and some by rewards a●…ured ) may appeare , by the which the wise and pollitique senatour T●…lly wryteth : saying , that it Tulli in Ep. ad atti . was the wordes of Solon which was one of the seuen wyse men of Greece , and of those seuen the onely man that made lawes , that a common weale ▪ was holden vp by two things , chiefely that is by reward and peyne : of which words , I gather , that men should be prouoked to do good de●…des by rewardes and preferments : and to abstaine from ill doinges by paines , trowe you if husband men be not better chearyshed or prouoked then they be , to exercise the plough , but that in processe of time so many ploughes wil be layd downe as I feare me there be all ready that of one vnfruitefull yeare shall happen amonge vs , as commonly doth once in seuen yeares : we should then not only haue dearth but also skarcenes of corne , that we should be driuen to seeke it from outwarde par●…ies and pay deare for it .

Knight .

Howe would yee haue them better chearished to vse the plough .

Doctor .

To let them haue more profit by it than they haue , & liberty to sell it at all ●…nes & to all places as freely as men may do other things : but than ( no doubt ) the price of corne would rise specially at the first more then at length : yet the price would prouoke euery man to set the plough in the ground , to ●…ill waste grounds : yea & to turne the lands that is now e●…losed for pasture to erable , for euery man will the gladder follow that wherein they see the more gaines , and thereby 〈◊〉 nedes ensue both greater plenty of corne within the realme and also much treasure should be brought into the realme by reason thereof . And besides that plentie of all other vi●…tuall encreased amonge bs.

Knight .

That would I faine heare you declare howe ?

Doctor .

Ye haue heard that by this free vent and sale of corne , the husbandmans profit is 〈◊〉 , then it is shewed that euery man naturally will follow that , wherein hee sees profit Profit will make husbandmen more occupied & there by more prof●… and consequent ly better cheape of coine . insue : therefore men wil the gladder occupy h●…shandry , & the more doe o●…cupie husbandry , the mors plenty of Corne must nedes be : And the more plenty of corne there is , thereof the better cheape : And also the more will be spared ouer the which shall suffise for the realme . And then that may bee spared in a good yeare , shall bringe vs againe ●…ther corne : or els the commodities of other coun●…ries necessary for vs . Then the more husbandry there is occupied , the more vniuersall breede should be of all victuals of Neare , Sheepe , Swine , Geese , H●…nnes , Capons , & Chickens : for al these are reared much on corne .

Knight .

If men shoulde sell when a good seasonable yeare is , all that is ouerplus : when the Realme is se●…tted what shoulde wee doe if a barren yeare shoulde happen , when no store of corne is lefte of the good yeare before .

Doctor .

Fyrst ye muste consider that men will be sure they wyll keepe inoughe to finde themselues within the realme , ●…re they sell any forth of the same and hauing libertie to sell at their pleasure , doubte ye not , but they had leuer sell their corne two pence or three pence in a bushell better cheape within the realme , then to bee at the charge of ca●…iage , and perill of aduenture : in sending it ouer and sell it dearer , excepte it be for much more gaines . And thus men being prouoked with luker , wilkeepe the more corne , loking for a deare peare in the countrey , whereby must needes be great store : and though they did not so , but should sell ouer sea all that they might spare ou●…rthat serues the realme , when the yere is plentifull , yet by reason that throughe the meanes asoresaid 〈◊〉 Ploughes are set a worke , then would suffice the Realme in a plentifull yeare : if a scarse yeare should fal after , the corne of so many ploughes as in a good yere , would be more then inough in an vnfruitefull yere , at the leaste would be sufficient to finde the Realme , & so should the realme be serued withinough of corn in a scarse yere , & in a plentiful yere , no more than inough : which might be soldouer for great treasure , or greater commodities : where now in a plentyfull yere we seeke to haue but asmuch as may suffise the realme . Then if a scarse yere should happen , we must needes lacke of our owne to serue and should bee dryuen to buy from beyond the sea , and then if they were as enuious as wee bee : might not they say ? when we requyred any corne of them , ( that seing they could get none from vs when we had plenty , ) why should they let vs haue any corne when wee haue sc●…rsitie ? Surely common reason would that one region shoulde helpe another when it lackes , and therefore God hath ordeyned that no countrey shoulde haue all commodities , but which that one 〈◊〉 another brings forth : & that that one countrey lacketh this yere , another hath plenty thereof commonly the same yere , to the intente men may knowe that they haue neede one of anothers helpe , & thereby loue and societie to growe amonge all men the more , but here we would do as though we had neede of no other countrey on earth , but to liue all of our selues : & as though we myghte make the market of all thinges as wee lust our selues , for though God is bountifull vnto vs & sendes vs many great commodityes , yet wee coulde not liue wythoute the commodityes of others . And for example , of Iron and Salt●… thoughe wee haue competentlye thereof , yet wee haue not the thirde parte to suffice the Realme , and that can in no wise be spared if yee wil occupy husbandry , th●…n tar , rozyn , pitch , Oyle , and steele , wee haue none at all : and for Wynes , spyces , ly●…en cloth , silk●…s , & coloures , though we might liue indifferently without them , yet far from any ciuility should it be : as I deny not but many things wee might haue heere sufficiently that we buy now from beyond sea , and many things we might spare wholly : whereof if time will serue I shall talke more here after : 〈◊〉 ut nowe to returne to the first poynte I spake of before , to bee one of the meanes to bring husbandry vp , that is by basing the estimation of wooll , & felles . Though I take not that way to bee as good as the other , for I doe not allowe that meane that may base any of our commodities , except it bee for t●…e ●…haunstng of a better commodity : but if both commodities may bee inhaunsed together , as by the last deuise I thinke they might be ▪ I allowe that way better , neuer-thelesse where as you ( brother Mer●…er ) shewed afore , that eit●…er by r●…raining of wooll and other commodities , till they were equale within the Realme after the ra●…e of the corne : or by inhaū●…g the cus●…ome of wooll and other the sayd commodities , till the price beside the custome of the sayd commodities were brought like to the corne in proportion : the Qu●…enes custome Whether the Q●…ee ▪ custome should be dim●…nished by s●…int of ●…ll 〈◊〉 . shoulde bee diminished , I thinke not so , for t●…e one way , as much as she shoulde haue for the more wooll at litle custome ven●…ed ouer , so much should we ha●…e for the lesse wooll at a greater custome ventred . And the other way as much as her Grace shou●…d lose by her cus●…ome of wooll , so much or more should her grace winne by the custome of ●…thes ma●… within the realme . ●…ut one th●…g I d●…e note by this later deuise , that if they should take place 〈◊〉 must doe , that is if ●…e keepe within vs much of our commodities , wee must spare many other thinges that we ha●…e now from beyonde sea , for wee most alwayes take h●…de that w●…e buy no more of straungers then we do sell them , for so we should impouerish our selues and enriche them . For ●…ee were no good husband that had no other yerely reuenues but of his husbandry to liue on , that would buy more in the market then he selles againe . And that is a pointe that wee might saue much by our treasure in this realme , if wee woul●… . And I maruell no man takes heede to it , what number first of tri●…les Howe ●…ger ▪ 〈◊〉 from vs our great for very 〈◊〉 . comes hether from beyond the sea , that we mighte eyther cleane spare or els make them within our realme , for the which we either pay inestimable treasure euery yeare , or els exchaunge substanciall wares and necessarie for them for the which we might receiue great treasure . Of the which sorte I meane aswell looking glasses , as drinking , and al●… to glase Windowes , Dialles , ●…ables , Cardes , Balles Puppettes , Pe●…ers , Inkehornes , Cothepickes , Gloues , Kniues , Dagges , O●…hes , Browches , Aglettes , Buttons of silke & Siluer , Earthen pots , Pi●…es , & Pointes , Hawkes belles , Paper both white and browne , and a thousand like thinges that might either becleane spared , or els made within the realme sufficient for vs , and as for some thinges they make it of our owne commodities and sende it Our delicacy in requiring straungers Wares . vs againe , whereby they set their people a worke , and doe exhauste much treasure out of this Realme : as of our woll they make clothes , Cappes and 〈◊〉 of our felles they make spanish ●…es , Gloues and Gerdels , of our 〈◊〉 Saltsellers , Spones and Dishes , of our broken ●…en clothes and ragges , Paper both white and browne , what ●…reasure thinke yee goes out of this Realme for euery of these thinges : and then for all together it exceedes myne estimation . There is no man can be contented now with any other Gloues then is made in Fraunce or in Spayne : nor ●…ersie but it muste bee of Flaunders die : nor ●…oth but French or Ou●…he : nor Duche , Brooch , or Agglet but of Venice making , or 〈◊〉 : nor Dagger , Swearde Knife or ●…yrdle but of spanish making ; or some outward countrey , no not as much as a Spurre but that is fetched at the Millener . I haue heard within these xl . yeares when there were not of these Haberdashers that selles french or Millen ●…appes Glasses , Kniues , Daggers , Swordes , The en●…ase of haberdashers & 〈◊〉 ouer theywere 〈◊〉 to be . G●…dels and such thinges , not a dosen in all London : & now from the towne to ●…minster alonge , euery streate is f●…l of them , and their shoppes glitters and shynes of glasses as well drynking as loking , yea all maner of vessell of the same stuffe : paynted cruses , gaie Daggers , Knyues , Swerdes , and Girdels that it is able to make any ●…ēperate man to gase on them and to buy somwhat , though it serue to no purpose necessarie . What neede them beyonde sea to trauaile to Perowe or such farre countreies , or to trye oute the sandes of the riuers of Tagus in Spaine , Pactogus in Asia , and Ganges in India , to get amonge them after much How the st●…aú gers ●…nde an easy way to get 〈◊〉 by thing●… of no value then by any myne ▪ of gold or 〈◊〉 . labour small sparkes of gold , or to digge the deepe bowels of the earth for the mine of Siluer or Golde , when they can of vile claie not farre sought for : and of pryple Stones and Ferne rootes , make good Golde and Siluer , more then a greate many of Siluer and Golde mines would make , I thinke not so litle as a hūndreth thousand poundes a yeare is fetched of our Treasure , for thinges of no valure of them selues , but only for the labours of the workers of the same , which are set a worke all on our charges ▪ what grosenes of wits be we of , that s●…e it , and suffer such a continual spoile to be made of our good and treasure by such meanes and specially that will suffer our owne commodities to go and set straungers a worke , & then to buy them againe at theyr h●…es , as of our Woll they make and die Kersies , Frēchadowes , How 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with our ●…ties an 〈◊〉 our costes . broade clothes , and Cappes beyonde sea & brynge them hetherto be solde again●… : wherein I pray you note what they doe : they make vs pay at the ende for our owne 〈◊〉 againe . 〈◊〉 , for the ●…gers custome for their workemanshippe , and colours , and lastely for the seconde custome in the retourne of the wares into the realme again : where as by working the same within the realme , our owne men should be set a worke at the charges of straungers , the custome should be borne all by straungers to the Queene , & the cleare gaines remaine within the Realme .

Knight .

If yee ponder such thinges and other , which goeth ouer Sea yerely from vs for the same , yee speake to litle by as much againe , but one thinge I haue marked that albeit it is true , that though straungers buy their woll deare & pay twise custome , that is both at going oute of the woll , and when it retournes in clothes or cappes , yet the same shal be better cheape then that which is made within the Realme , whereof that should come , I would faine knowe .

Doctor .

Whether it come of our sloth , or of our chargeable fare or of our idlenes , which we Englishmen vse , percase more then other nations , I knowe not : yet it were better for vs Why ●…gers may aforde wares bett●…r cheape made by them then we may the same made here , & yet th●…t it were b●…r for vs to buy our owne though they were dearer . to paie more to our owne Countreymen for these wares , then to straungers lesse , for how litle gaines so euer goeth ouer , it is lost to vs cleare , but how much so euer the games is that goeth from one of vs to another , it is all saued with in the Realme : and a like reason as you make now hete . Once a Booke Seller made mee when I asked him why , we had not white and browne paper made within the realme aswell as they had made beyond the sea ▪ Then he aunswered mee that there was paper made a while within the realme . At the last the man perceiued that made it that he could not forthe his paper as good cheape as it came from beyond the sea , and so he was forced to lay downe making of paper and no blame in the man , for men will geue neuer the more for his paper because it was made here ▪ but I would eyther haue the paper staied from comming in , or so burdened with custome : that by that time it came hether , out men mighte aforde their paper better cheape , then straungers might do theires , the customes considered .

Knight .

There ye speake a thinge that the Queenes Attourney would not agree vnto , for if such ●…are were made within the real●…e , them the Queenes custome should be less●… by reason that l●…tle or no such wares should come from beyond the Sea .

Doctor .

If the Queenes Attourney did regard , as well the pro●…te that should come after : as that which is present afore the eyes , hee would agree to this well inough , for by this meanes inestimable treasure should be saued within the realme , The most durable & vn●…sal profit is mo●…e to be ●…steemed then 〈◊〉 and particuler . and then it could not growe to the profit of the subiects , but it must needes growe also to the profite of the Queene , for the wealth of the subiectes , is the profit of the Queene : and in mine opinion they doe not best prouide for her Graces profite , that procureth onely a presente commoditie : but rather that commodity that may longest endure without griefe of her subiects .

Knight .

You would haue a lawe made , that no such ware should be brought from beyond the sea , to be soulde heere , of such things as could be made heere , as wel as there .

Doctor .

Yea fors●…oth , so would I wishe .

Knight .

I was once in a Parlyament , when such a thynge was mooued , but onely for Cappes , that none made beyond sea should bee sould heere within the Realme , and then it was a●…swered by a great wise man , that it was to ●…ee feared Whether our restr●…ts doc touch the le●…ues made with other l●…ces . least it touched the league made betwene the Princes highnesse , & some forraigne Prince : what thinke you then would haue bene said , if yee would haue moued a lawe to be made of our wooll , our Tynne , our Led , and Hydes , beyond sea , should haue bene sould heere .

Doctor .

I cannot tell whether that should touch the league or no , nor whether any such league be : but I say to you that I think it a maruaylous league that shoulde let vs to make lawes to binde our owne subiects that might be profitable to them : and if their were any such league I had leauer it were broken No league is to be ●…shed that is not for the con 〈◊〉 . then kept , which being broken shoulde doe vs good , & being kept should doe vs harme , and I suppose that when wee enter any league the same is ment to be for our weale , and not for our hinderaunce , wherefore that league would not be esteemed that might hinder our commonweale .

Knight .

What if they would make a like lawe beyonde the sea , that wares made within this realme should not bee soulde ther●… , as they made of late , when wee deuised a lawe that no Wynes shoulde bee caried heather in straungers bot●…es .

Doctor .

Yet should they be enforced rather to dissolue their law then we ours , for our stuffe is necessary for them that is made here : as cloth , Leather , Biere , tallow , butter , cheese , pewter vessell &c. Theirs be to vs more to serue pleasure then necessity : as Cables , Cardes , perfumed Gloues , Glasses , gally Pots , Dyails , Orenges , Pippens , and Cheries : yea their chiefe commodities might be better spared of vs , than retayned of them , as wynes , silkes , spices , yron , and Salt . A worthy example to be followed in ●…sing of ●…gers . I would to God wee woulde followe but the example of a poore Hauen towne that I heard of it to do of late : heere in the Marches of Wales , called Carmarthen , when there came 〈◊〉 certayne ●…essell thether out of England all Laden with Appells , which aforetime was wont to brynge them good corne , the towne co●…aunded that nonne shoulde buy the sayd Appells vpon a great payne , and so the Bote stoode so long in the hauen without sale or ●…ent till the Appells were putri●…ed and lost . And when the owner demaunded of the Bayliffe of the towne , why he hao stayed his sale and vent , the Bayliffe aunswered againe , that the sayd vessell came thether to fetch the best wares they had in the countrey , as Fryzes , brode Clothes , & wooll : and in steede thereof , hee should leaue them in their countrey but appells , that should be spent & was●…ed in lesse then a week●… . And sayd bring vnto vs corne or ●…te as yee were wont to doe , whereof the countrey hath neede , and yee shall be welcome at all times , & yee shall haue free vent and sale thereof in our Porte : thinke yee that the cities of London , Southhampton , Bristowe , Chester and other moe , might they not learne a good lesson of this poore Welch towne in this doing ▪ Might not they say when shippes full of Orrenges , Pippens , or Cheries come in , that if they would agayne take Plummes , Damozins , and strawberries for them , they shoulde haue free exchaunge : and when they bring in Glasses , Pupple●…s , Rattles , and such like thinges , they should haue like trisles for them , if any such were to bee had within this Realme , as there bee many , but if they come for our Woolles , for our Clothes , ●…erseyes , Corne , 〈◊〉 , Ledde , yea our Golde , and siluer , and such substantiall and necessary thinges : let them bring in againe , Fla●…e , Carre , Oyles , ●…e , & such like . And not to vse them as men doe litle Children , geeue them an appell for the best Jewell that they haue about them . And thus wee are empouerished of our treasure , & chiefe commodity , and cannot per●…eaue it , such is the ●…enesse of straungers wits and the grosenes of ours , yet it were more tollerable if wee did no more but chearishe their deuises that Of the coyne what ha●…e might haue gr●… of the alteration of it be straungers : but we haue in times past deuised our selues many other wayes , to our owne impouerishment , and to exhaust our treasure . And now I must come to that thynge that you ( brother Mercer ) touched afore , which I take to be the chiefe cause of all this dearth of thinges ( in comparison of former times ) and of the manifest impouerishinge of the Realme , and might in short time haue ben the destruction of the same , if it had not bene the rather remedied , that is , the ba●…ng or rather the corrupting of our coyne , & trea sure , whereby we deuised a way for the straungers not only to buy our Gold and siluer for brasse , and to exhaust this realme of treasure : but also to buy our chiefe commodities in maner for ●…ought , yet it was thought this should haue bene a meane not onely to bring our treasure home , but to bring much of theirs : but the experince playnely declared the contrary , so that it were but a very Dullerdes parte now to be in any doubt thereof .

Knight .

Forsooth and such a Dullerd 〈◊〉 I in deede , that I cannot perceaue what hinderaunce it should be to the rea●…me to haue this mettall more then that ( for our Coyne ) see●…g the Coyne is but a token to goe from man to man , & when it is stricken with the Princes seale to be currant : what maketh it the matter what mettall it be made of : yea , though it were but Leather , or Paper .

Doctor .

You say but as most sorte of men doe say , and yet they be farre wide from the truth , as men that do not consider the thinge groundly : for by that reason God would neuer send dearth among vs , but the Prince might quickely remedy it . As if Corne were at a Crowne a Bushell , the Prince might prouide Crownes ynough for himselfe and also his subiects made of brasse to pay for the same , and so to make it as easy for him and his subiects to pay a Crowne of such mettall for a bushell , as it should be for them now to pay a penny for the same : and as the price of corne doth rise , the the Prince might rayse the estimation of his coyne after the rate , and so keepe the coyne alwayes at one estate in deede though in name it shoulde seeme to rise . As for example , suppo●…e Wheate this yeare to be at a grot a bushell , and the next yeare at two grotes , the Prince might cause the grote to be called viii . d. and if the bushel rose to xii . d. the bushel , he might rayse the estate of the grote to xii . d. and so whether it were by makinge of coyne of other mettalles then be of price receaued amonge all men , or by enha●…ng the price of the olde coyne made in mettalles of estimation , the Pri●…ce might if your reason were true , keepe alwaies not o●…ely corne , but also all other victaylles and necessaries for mans life , alwayes at one price in decde , though in terme they should vary : but yee may see dayly by experience the contrary hereunto , for when God sendeth dearth either of corne or of other things , there is neither Emperor nor King can help it , which they would gladly d ee if they might , as wel for their owne ease , ●…s for their subiects , and might soone doe it if your reason afore touched mig●…t take place : that is , if either they might make coine of what estimation they would , of vile mettalles : or els enhaunse the value of coines made in mettalls of price , to what some they would . Yet a man at the first blush woulde thinke that a Prince in his realme might doe this easily , & make what coyne he would to be currant and of what estimation it pleased him , but he The subs●…aunce and quantity is ●…eemed in coyne & not the name . that so thinketh marketh but the termes , & not the thinges tha●… are vnderstanded by them , as if a man made no differaunce betwene vi . grotes that made an ownce of ●…uer , and xii . grotes that made in all but an ownce of Siluer , by the grote of the firste sorte , the sixth parte of an ownce , and by a grote of the other sorte is the twelfth parte of an ownce of siluer vnderstanded , and so there must bee as much difference betwene the one grote & the other , as is betwene two and one , the whole thinge & the halfe : though either of both be called but vnder one name , that is a grote : we must consider though gold & siluer be the mettals commonly wherein the coyne is strycken to bee the tokens for exchannge of thinges ▪ betwene man and man : yet it is the wares that are necessary for mans vse , that are exchaunged in deede , vnder the outward name of the coyne , and it is the raritie & plenty of such wares , that makes the price therof hier or baser . And because it were very combrous and chargeable to cary so much of the wares that we haue abundance of , to exchaunge for the wares that we want , alwayes both for the weight of our wares , and also for that they could not be caried so fa●…re without perishing of the same , nor proporcioned so euen , as they should be alwayes , neither more or lesse brought of our wares , then were equiualent with other wares that we receiue , therefore were the mettals of golde and siluer Aristo . lib. 5 Eth. deuised , as wares of litle weight , most in value , & least combrous to carie : and least subiect to detriment or hurt in That the neces sity of Mutuall trassique and commodity of exchang made Coyne to be deuised . the car●…age thereof , and may be cut and deuided in most pie ces and portions , without any losse , to be as the meane in wares to exchaunge all other wares by . And if the thynge were to be new deuised , necessity would cause vs to deuise the same way againe . For put the case there were no vse of money amonge vs , but onely exchaunge of war●…s , for wares : as ●…times I do reade hath ben : we might at a time haue Hōm . F. de emptione et vendicatioue . Li. 〈◊〉 . such plenty of thinges in our realme , as for example of corn 〈◊〉 , & Felles , Cheese , & Butter , and such other commodities as were sufficient for vs , and there shoulde remayne with vs such great store , that w●…e could not spend it in our needes , nor keepe it longe without perishing . Woulde not we be glad to exchaunge that abundance of thinges , that could not abyde the longe keeping : for such wares that would a●…yde the keeping , which we mighte exchaunge ▪ agayne for such wares , as I rehearsed , or any other as nec●…ssary : when scarsitie of the same should happen amonge vs ? Yea verely we would studie to haue in that exchaunge such wares as would go in least romth and continue longest without perishing , and be caried to and fro with least charge , & be most currant at all times : and at all places . Is not Golde & Siluer , the thinges that be most of that sorte : I meane most of Why Gold & siluer were the 〈◊〉 most 〈◊〉 for coine to bee 〈◊〉 in . 〈◊〉 , mo●… light to be caried , longest able to abide the keeping : apt●…st to r●…iue any forme , marke , and most currant in all places : & most easelie deuided into ma●… pi●…es without losse of the stuffe . In some of these 〈◊〉 I confesse precious Sto●…es do excell Siluer or yet Golde , as in val●…e or lightnesse of cariage , but then , they may not bee deuided without perishing of the substaunce , nor put agayne together , after they be o●…es deuided , nor many of them abyde so m●…ny my daungers without perishing of the matter , nor yet receiue any marke or stampe easely , nor be so vniuersally esteemed : therefore they be not so meete for Ius●…rumentes of exchaunge , as Siluer and Golde be , or els they for their pieces and lightnesse of cariage , might be . And because Golde and Siluer haue all these commodities in them , they are chosen by common assent of all the world , that is knowen to Publica mensura Aristo . Eth. be of an●…●…ility , to be instruments of exchaunge , to measure all things by , mostap●…e to be either caried farre or kept in store , to receiue for thinges , whereof we haue abundance , and to purchase by them agayne other thinges which wee lacke , when and where we haue most neede . As for example , if there were no coyne currant , but exchaunge of things as I sayd sometime there was : set this case , that a man had as much co●…e in one yere as he could not well spend in hi●… house in foure yeares after , and perceiued that hee mighte not keepe it so longe , or till a deare or skarce yeare shoulde come , and if he did , much of it shoulde perish or all : were it not wisedome for him then to exchaunge the ouer plus of that corne , for some other ware that might be longer kept , without d●…er of ●…ast , or deminishing , for the which he might at all times haue either corne againe at his neede , or some other necessarie thing ▪ Yeas no doubt , if there were no vse of Siluer or Golde he would haue Tinne brasse , or leadde or such other like thing that would abide the keeping with least detriment , and would desire to haue that thing most , that were in least weight , most in value , and in least daunger of wearing or perishing , & most vniuersally receiued , w●…ere in Golde and Syluer excelles all other mettalles .

Knight .

What makes these mettalles to bee of more value then other .

Doctor .

No doubt their excellencie aboue other mettalles both in pleasure , and vse partely the raritie of them .

Knight .

〈◊〉 What be these qualities ▪ If yee prayse the Golde for his weight or pliablenes , Led doth excel it in these pointes ifyee commend his colour , Siluer by many mens Iudgements ( whose colour resembleth the day light for his clerenesse ) passeth him . And Herroldes preferres it in armes : because it is furthest of seene in the Fielde , nor neuer seemes other colour but his owne , be it neuer so farre of : where al other shall seeme blacke farre of , and so loose the strengthe of their owne .

Doctor .

As much as the Led approcheth the Gold in that pointe I speake of weight and pliablenes , it is cast behinde it in other qualities farre more commendable , as in colonr it either passeth Siluer by some other mens iudgementes , because it resembles the colour of the celestiall bodies , as the Sunne and Starres being the most excellent thinges that commeth vnder the view of the bodelie sences of man , or it Why Golde , & Syluer are estem●…d afo●…e all ther mettalls . is equibalent to it : in armes I know not how much it is este●…med , well I wote Princes blase their armes most with that colour , whether it bee for excellency of the same , or for that they loue the mettall it is made of so wel , I cannot tel . but now to esteeme theyr other qualities , Golde is neuer wasted nor consumed by ●…er : yea the more it is burned , the more puerer it is : which ye can say of none other mettalles . Then it weares not lesse by occupying , it de●…h not the thing it toucheth , as Siluer doth , with which ye may draw lynes , which is a declaration that the s●…ffe falleth away , albeit wryters do máruel that it should draw so blacke a line being of that brightnes and colour it self . ●…hen there is no rust nor s●…e that deminisheth the goodnes or wasleth the substaunce of Gold : it abides the freating , and licours of Salt & ●…inegar ●…out damage , which weareth any other thing : it needes no fier , ere it be made Gold as others require , it is Golde as soone as it is founde , it is drawen without woll , as it were Woll , it is easely spred in leaues of marueilous th●…es : ye may adorne or guild any other mettals with it , yea Stones and 〈◊〉 : it is also nothinge inferiour in commodity of makyng ve●…sels or other instrumentes to siluer , but rather pu●… , cle●…er , and more sweete to keepe any liquor in . Next him approcheth Siluer in commendatio●…s , as in clea●…es , beauty , swee●…es , and brightnes . And it serues not onely to make vessels a●…d other 〈◊〉 , but it is also sponne , but not without Woll , as Gold may bee , though they could not doe it a●…re time , but with Gold onely , as I haue hearde , chu●…ch ●…estures were made onely of Gold then , and now of late of this Siluer being spon with s●…lke and guilte , they counterfeite the olde excesse of clothe of Golde and tyss●…e . Now to speake of other mettalls , yee see what vses they serue for , whych if these were away should bee more esteemed . Then I toulde you the raritye commends the sayd mettals of Gold and Siluer , yet more than this . For as they do excel in qualities , so Dame nature seemes to haue laied them vp in a further warde , then her other giftes , to shew vs that all fayre things be rare , and that the fayrest thinges as they be hardest to be attayned , so they be most to be esteemed . I●… a Glasse ( as Erasmus sayth wel ) were as rare as siluer , it should be as deare as siluer , and not without cause : who could glase a Window with siluer so as he might keepe out the iniury of the weather and yet neuerthelesse receiue the commodity of the light through the same to his house , as with glasse he might ▪ And so I might commend other things for theyr vse afore Gold or Siluer , as Iron & Steele , with whom yee may make bette●… tooles for many necessary vses , then with Gold or Siluer , but for the vses that we talke of , Siluer and Golde do clearely excell all other mettals . I passe ouer that matter : thus I haue shewed some reason , why these mettals of Gold & Syluer are growen in estimation aboue other .

Knight .

Why doe Kynges and Princes stricke these mettalles and other with a coyne , but because they would haue that coyne of what value so euer it be , to beare the estate that the Why Gold & Syluer were ●…ned . coine pretēoeth , which they did in vaine if they coul●… make the mettall that beares that , to be neither better nor worse in estimation . Then I had as liefe haue sinal gadds or plats of Siluer and Gold without any coyne at al , to go abroade from man to man for exchaunge .

Doctor .

Surely the time was so ( euen among the Romaynes , when neither brasse , siluer nor golde was coined : ) but were esteemed onely by the weight . And thereof to this day remayneth Plini lib. 33 Cap. 3. these vocables of coynes , as Libra , Pondo , Dipondius , as Solidus , Denarius , wordes of weightes , that afterward were geuen to coynes pretending the same weights . Also the commen officers that waighed these rude mettals Sometime ●…le , ●…luer & Golde were ●…hed be●… Coyne made . were called Libri pendes , whereof we haue mēcione made in the Ciuile lawe : but because in great tra●…que & assembly of buyers , & such , it was tedious to tary for the weighing of these Mettalles and trying , it was thought good that the Princes should strike those ●…ttals with seueral markes , for the variety of the weights they were of , to assure the Receiuor , Inst. de test . ord. 1. the same to be no lesse then the weight it pretended . As for playner example , they strake the pound weight with the marke of the pound , and the ounce with the marke of the ounce , and so after the variety of the weights of other pieces variable markes : whereby began the names of Coynes , so that the people needed not to be troubled with the weighing and tryinge of euery piece , being assured by the marke of the Prynce , that euery piece contayned the weight that was signysied by the marke set on euery one : the Prynces credite was then such amonge their subiects as they doubted nothing therein . As soone as they attempted to doe otherwise , that is , to marke the halfe pound with the marke of the pound , & the halfe ounce with the marke of the ounce , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their credite made those coines currant : As I 〈◊〉 among the Romaynes practized more then once , but assoone as it was espied , the two pieces of halfe pounds went no farther then y● one piece of a whole pound went before . And at length , as much as they wonne at the first , they l●…st at the last in payment of their rentes , cu●…omes , and duties . ( And What losle commoth of c●…edence . so the neerer East , the further from West . ) And they consequently lost their credite , much like as I haue knowne certen townes in England to haue done which were wonte to make their clothes of a certayne bredth and length , and to set their seales to the same , ●…hile they kept the rate truly , straungers did but looke on the seale , and receaue their ware , wherby these townes had great vent of their clothes , and consequently prospered very well . Afterward some in those townes not contented with reasonable gaynes continuall , and desiering more . Deuised clothes of lesse length , bredth , and goodnesse then they were wont to bee , and yet by the commendacion of the seale to haue as much money for the same as they had before for good clothes , and for a time they gat much , and so abased the credite of their Predicessors to their singuler luker , wh●…h was recompenced with the losse of their Posterity . For after these Clothes were founde faulty , for all their seales , they were not onely neuer the better trusted , but much lesse for their seale : yea , though their clothes were well made , for when their vntruth and falshoode was espied , then no man would buy their clothes , till they were ensearched and vnfoulded , regarding nothing the seale : and yet because they founde them vntrue in some parte , they mistrusted them in other : and so would geue lesse fo●… those clothes then for any other like hauing no seales to the same , whereby the credite of the said townes was lost , and the tow●…s vtterly d●…caied . Did yee not see , that our Coyne was discredited immediately vpon the alteration of it , in the late yeares of King Henry the eight , specially among straungers , which euer before desired to serue vs afore all other Nations , at all our needes , for the goodnes of our Coyne . And then they would let vs haue nothing from them , but onely for our commodities , as Wooll , Felles , Callow , But●…er , Cheese , Tin , and Ledde , & where before time , they were wont to bring vs for the same , either good Golde or siluer , or els as necessary commodities agayne , then they sent vs either such trisles as I spake of before : as Glasses , gally Pots , tennice Balles , Papers , Gyroles , Brouches , Buttons , Dyalls , and such light ware , that standeth them in no charge or vse , or els ( if it be true that I haue heard ) and as I tolde you in your eare before , they sent vs Brasse for our Treasure of Golde and siluer , and for our sayd commodities , I What doe ●…gers send vs ●…or our 〈◊〉 & ch●… commodities . warrant you yee sawe no Golde nor Siluer brought ouer vnto vs , as it was before vsed , & no marua●…le : to what purpose should they bring siluer or Golde thither , whereas the same was not e●…eemed ? Therefore I haue heard say for a truth , and I beleeue it the rather to bee true because it is likely , that after that our Coyne was based and altered : Straungers counterfayted our Coyne , & founde the meanes to haue great Masses of that transported hether , and here vttered it wel for our olde Golde and siluer , as also for our chiefe commodities , which thinge I reporte mee vnto you what inconuenience it might bring vnto this Realme , if it were suffered , in a small compasse of time .

Knight .

There be Searchers that might let that matter well ynough if they be true , both for staying of such false Coine to come in , and of our olde Coyne to goe forth .

Doctor .

I sayd so to the man that tolde mee the same tale that I tolde you euen now . And he aunswered me , there were many How our olde coyne may be transported , & the Prince or her officers not ●…ing of it . wayes to deceaue the Searchers , if they were neuer so true , as by putting of the sayde Coyne in their shippes balast or in some ●…elles of wyne or other Lyquor transported either vnto vs or from vs : then euery Creake in ●…ys Realme hath not scarchers : And if they had , they bee not such saintes as woulde not bee corrupted for money . Besides We d●…uise the 〈◊〉 way to driue away our Treasure . this , was there not made proclamations that th●… olde ●…oyne , specially of Golde , should not be currant here abeue such a price : was not that the di●…st way to dryue a way our golde from vs ? euery thing will goe where it is most esteemed , and therefore our treasure went ouer in heapes .

Knight ,

I beleeue well that these were meanes to exhaust the olde treasure from vs , which yce haue reiected : but how it should make euery thing so deare among ●…ur selues since the tyme ( as yee sayd it doth ) I cannot yet perc●…aue the reason .

Doctor .

Why ? doe yee not perceiue that by ●…ason hereof , wee payed dearer presently for euery thing that we haue from beyonde the Sea , then wee were wont to doe before ?

Knight .

That cannot be denyed .

Doctor .

By howe much thinke you ?

Knight .

By the thirde parte well in all maner of thinges .

Doctor .

Must not they that buy deare , sell deare agayne theyr wares ?

Knight .

●…hat is true , if they intend to thriue : for he that selleth good cheape & buyeth deare , shall neuer thriue .

Doctor .

Yee haue your selfe declared the reason , why things ●…in the Realme proued after that time so d●…aie : for we must buy deare all things bought from beyond the sea , & therefore Why thinges 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be so deare . wee must sell agayne as deare our thinges , or els wee make ill bargaynes for our selues . And though that reason maketh it plaine , yet the experience of the thing maketh it playner : for where yee say that euery thinge bought beyond the sea , is commonly dearer by the third parte then it was : doe yee not see the same proportion reised in our wares , if it be not more ?

Knight .

What losse haue wee by this , when w●…e sell ou●… commodities as ●…eare as we buy others ?

Doctor .

I graunte to one sorte of men , I accompt it no losse , yea to some other a Gaine more then any losse , and yet to some other sorte a greater losse than it is pro●… to that other , yea generally to the vtter empouerishing of the realme and weaking of the Queenes maies●…es power exceedingly .

Knight .

I pray you what be those sortes that ye meane . And first of those that ye thinke should haue no losse hereby .

Doctor .

I meane all these that liues by buying and selling for as they buy deare they sell thereafter .

Knight .

What is the next sorte that ye say would win by it ?

Doctor .

Mary all such as haue tak●…es or ●…earmes in their Some ●…ad gaynes by the alteration of the coyne . owne manurance at the olde rent , for where they pay after the olde rate , they sell after the newe : that is , they pay for theyr lande good cheape , and sell all things growing therof deare .

Knight .

What sorte is that which yee sayde should haue greater losse hereby , then these men had profit .

Doctor .

It is all Noble men , Gentlemen and all other that lyue either by a ●…ented rent or 〈◊〉 , or doe not Mannure the ground , or doe occupy no buying or selling .

Knight .

I pray you peruse these sortes as ye did the other , one by one , and by course .

Doctor .

I will gladly , first the Noble men and Gentlemen liue for the most parte on the yerely reuenues of their lands and fees geuen them of the Prince . Then ye know he that may spende now by such reuenues and fees CCC . li. a yere may Who had lo●… by the alteration of ●…ne . not keepe no better port then his father , or any other before him , that coulde spend but nigh CC. li. and so ye may per●…eiue , it is a great abatement of a mans countenaunce to ta●…e away the thirde parte of his liuing , and therefore gentlemen do ●…udy so much the inerease of theyr Landes and enhaunsing of theire rentes , and to take Fearmes and Pastures to their owne handes as yee see they doe , and all to seeke to mainteine their 〈◊〉 as their predecessors did , and yet they came shorte there in . Some other seeing the charges of householde encrease so much , as by no prouision they can make , it can be holpen : geue ouer theyr householdes and get them chambers in London or aboute the courte , and there spende their time some of them with a serua●…t or two , where he was wont to keepe thirty or forty persons daily in his house , and to doe good in the Countrey , in keeping good order and rule among his neighbors . The other sorte be euen Seruingmen , and men of Warre that hauing but their olde stented wages , cannot finde themselues therewith : as they might afore time , without rauin or spoile . As ye know xii . d. a day now will not go so far as viii . pence would afore time . And there fore yee haue men so euill willing to serue the Pr●…e now a daies , from that they were wont to bee . Also where xl . shillinges a yere was honest wages for a yeoman afore this time , and xx . pence a weeke borde wages was sufficient : now double as much will skante beare their charge .

Knight .

That is longe of theyr excesse , aswell in apparell as in fare , for now a dayes Seruingmen go more costely in apparell , and looke to fare more deintely , then their maisters were wont to do in times past :

Doctor .

No doubt that is one great cause of the greater charge Of excelle in apparell and fare . of householde . For I know when a Seruing man was content to go in a Kendall coate in Sommer , and a frise cote in winter : and with a plaine white hose made meete for his body : And with a piece of biefe or some other dishe of sodde meate all the weeke longe : Now he will looke to haue at the least for sommer a coate of the finest cloth that may bee gotten for money , and his ●…osen of the finest Kersey , and that of some straunge die , as Flaunders die or french puke , that a Prince or great Lord can weare no finer ▪ if he weare cloth . Then their coates shal be garded cut and stitched and the breches of their hose so drawen with silke , that the workmanship shall farre passe the price of the 〈◊〉 , And this thing is not restrained as it should be , but rather cherished of the maisters , one striuing with the other , who may bee most proude and whose retinue may go most lauish & gay for a time of showe , whereas through such excesse they are fayne all the rest of the yere to keepe the fewer seruauntes . And so in excesse of meates they fare at some times in the yeare , that in the whole yeare after they keepe either no houses at all , or if they do it shall be very small : like excesses aswell in apparell as in fare were vsed in Rome a litle before the declination of the Empyre , 〈◊〉 as wise men haue thought it was occasion 〈◊〉 the decay thereof . And therefore Cato and diuerse wise senatours at that time , would haue had lawes made for restrainte of such excesses , and for that through the insole●…ie of some , that maintained the contrary , y● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not duly executed , muchpride ensued there : and of pride diu●…tand through deuision vtter desolation of the common weale . I pray God this realme may beware by that example , specially London the head of this empire , where such 〈◊〉 ( by reason the wealth al most of al this Realme is ●…aped there 〈◊〉 , as the corne of a Fielde into a ●…rne ) be most vsed : for in other parties commonly of thys realme , the lawe of necessitie keepes men in good case for exceding either in apparel or fare . I thinke wee were as much dread or more of our enemies , when our gentlemen went simply , and our Seruingmen plainely , without cuts or gards bearing theyr heauy Swordes and Buckelers on their thig●…es in sted of cuts and gardes and light daunsing Swordes : and when they rode carying good Speares in their 〈◊〉 in ●…ede of white rods , which they cary now more like ladies or gentlewomen , then men , all which delicacies maketh our men cleane effemina●…e & without strength .

Knight .

We may thanke our longe peace & quiet within the realme that men be not 〈◊〉 to ride●… strong . It was a tr●…blous world as well within the Realme as without , when men went and rode as you do speake .

Doctor .

What can you tell , what time or how sone such a worlde may come againe , wise men do say , that in peace men most looke and prouide for warre , and in warre again for peace . In Peace loke for Wa●…re . If men might be alwaies sure of peace , then needed no ma●… to keepe men at all . But sith it is otherwise , and that the iniquitie of men is such , as they cannot bee longe wythoute Warre : And that wee recken here in Englande our chiefe strength to be 〈◊〉 our Seruingmen & yeomen , it were wisedome to exercise them in tyme of peace somwhat with such apparell , fare and hardenes , as they must needes sustayne in time of warre , then the same shal be no nouelty to them when they come to it : and their bodies shall be stronge and harder to beare that , that they were somewhat accustomed wich all afore . Let this that I say , be of no cre●…ite : if del●…acie and tendernes was not the most occasion of the subduing of the greatest Empires that were .

Knight .

Surely ye say very well & that which soundeth to good reason . I must needes alowe that I haue found true my self , for my men are so tenderly vsed in time of peace , that they can not away with any heauy armour in time of warre , but either shirts of Maile or Coates of linnen ragges , which at a shotte may perhaps deceiue vs . Then what saye you by our buildinges that wee haue here in Englande of late dayes , farre more exce●…iue than at any time heretofore . Doth not that impouerish the Realme & cause men to keepe lesse Houses .

Doctor .

I say that all these thinges be tokens of ornamentes of peace , and that no doubt is cause of lesse housholdes : sith the buildings and trimming of those houses spendes away that , that should be otherwise spent in houshold . But it doth not empouerish the Realme at all , for all the expences of buildings , for the most part is spent amonges our selues & amonges our neighbours and Countreymen . As amonges Carpenters , Masons , and Labourers , except men wil fall Of excesse 〈◊〉 Buylding●… . to guilding or peinting of these Houses . For in that much treasure may be spent , and to no vse . Also the Areses , Uerderers , and Tapistry workes wherewith they bee hanged commonly , conueieth ouer into Flaunders & other straunge . Countreyes ( where they be had from ) much of our Treasure .

Knight .

Syr , yet I must remember you of one thing more , which men do suppose to be a great occasion of the spending of the treasure abroade : & it is , where there is comen to the crowne of late yeares much lands by reason of Monasteries , colleges , and Chauntres dissolued , which men suppose hath been the cause two maner of waies , that there is lesse treasure a broade in the Realme . One is because the reuenues of the sayd places dissolued heretofore , were spent in the countrey and went from hand to hande there , for vittaile cloth and other thinges : and now are gone to one place out of the coumtrey . Another is that diuers men which had any ryches or wealth vttered the same , to buy perselles of the said dissolued lands lying commodious for them , whereby one way & other the whole riches of the countrey is sweeped away .

Doctor .

Truth it is also , that it wringed the countrey abroade for the time , and had kept it so still if the Kinges Maiesty had not dispersed the same lands abroad among them in the countrey againe , but after that his highnes departed with a great deale of those possessions , part by gift and part by sale : treasure hath and will encrease againe abroad , as much as euer it was , if it be not letted by other meanes : so that I take y● to be no great cause of the dearth that we haue , for the soile is not taken away , but the possession thereof is onely transferred from one kinde of persons to another .

Knight .

Then to retourne to the matter of the coine where wee left . I haue heard your conceipt how the alteration thereof , within our Realme did some men no harme , as Buyers and sellers : some other it did good vnto , as Farmors that had Lande at the olde Rent : and some other as Gentlemen , men of warre , seruaunts , and all other liuing by any rated or stented rent or stipend , were great losers by it : But I heard you say it was so much withal to the losse of the Prince , that it might be to the great perill of the whole Realme in processe of time . I meruayle howe it should be so , for I heard wise men say , that the Queenes highnesse Father did winne inestimable great summes , by the alteration of the Coyne .

Doctor .

So it was for the time , but I liken that gaynes to such as men haue when they sell away their landes , to haue the greater some at one time , and euer after to lose the continuall increase that should grow thereof : for you knowe all How the alt●…ration of the ●…oyne should be most ●…oste to the Prince . the treasure of this Realme , must once in few yeares come to the Princes handes by one meanes or other , and from thence it should goe abrode againe to the Subiects . As all Springes runneth to the Ocean Sea , & out of it are they spred abrode agayne : them as they came into the kings coffers at the firste in good mettall , they came forth in such as you haue heretofore seene . And albeit it seemeth at the first vew to empouerishe but the subiects onely : at length impouerisheth also the Prince : and then if the Prince should want in time of warre , specially sufficient treasure to pay for armor , weapons , tacklings of shippes , gunnes , and other artillary necessary for the warre , and could by no meanes haue of the subiects wherewith to buy the same , what ease should the Realme be in ? Surely in very euill , & therefore these Coynes and treasure bee not without cause called of wise men , Nerui bellorum ( that is to say ) the Synowes of warre . And that is the greatest dasiger that I doe consider , should growe for want of treasure to the Prince and the Realme , for though a Prince may haue what coyne he will currant within his Realme , yet the straungers cannot be compelled to take them . And I graunt , if men might liue within themselues , all together without borowinge of any other thing outwarde , we might deuise what coyne wee would : ●…ut since we must haue neede of other and they of vs , wee must frame our things not after our owne phantasies , but to followe the common market of all the worlde , and w●…e may not set the price of things at our pleasure , but follow the price of the vniuersall Market of the World , I graunt also that brasse hath bene coyned ere this , yea & Leather in some places . But euer I reade y● that was at an extreme neede , which thinge is not to bee follow●…d as an example , but to be eschewed as longe as possible may be : And if our treasure be farre spent and exhaust ( as it hapened in the later yeares of King Henry the eight ) I could wish that any other order were taken for the recouery of it , then the deprauing of our coynes , which serueth the Prince but a lit●…e while , for some present shifte , and hindred him a long time afterwardes . I am perswaded that within our Realme treasure might bee soone recouered by these two meanes : first if we forbad the bringing in and selling of so many tri fles as I before rehersed to be brought vs from beyond the sea , & that nothing made beyond the sea of our owne commodities should be sould heere . And secondly , if we forbad that none of our commodities should passe vnwrought ouer sea , which being wrought here and soulde ouer should bring in infinite treasure in shorte time .

Knight .

Mary and there yee bee contrary to the opinions of many a great wise man , which thinke it better that all our wooll were sould ouer sea vnwrought , then an●… Clothiers should be set a worke withall , within this rea●… .

Doctor .

That were a straunge thinge in mine opinion , that any man should thinke so , and what should mooue them to be of that opinion I pray you .

Knight ,

I will tell you . They take it that all insurrections & vproares for the most parte , do rise by occasion of these clothiers : For when clothiers lack vent ouer sea : then is a great multitude of these clothiers idle . And when they be idle , them they assemble in companies and murmur for lack of liuing , and so picke one quarrell or other to stirre the poore commons Whether all our Wooll were expedient to be ●…ould ouer vnwoug●…t that bee as idle as they , to a commotion : And sometimes by occasion of warres there musle needes bee some stay of clothes , so as they cannot haue alwayes like sale or vent : at euery which time if the said Clothiers should take occasion of commotion , they thinke it were better that there were none of them in the Realme at all , and consequently that the woll were vttered vnwrought ouer sea , then to haue it wrought here .

Doctor .

So it may seeme to them that considers one inconuenience , and not another . Surely who soeuer hath many persons vnder his gouernaunce , shall haue much a doe to gouerne them in quietnes , and he that hath a greate familye shal haue somtimes trouble in the ruling of them . It were but a meane pollicye eyther for a Prince to deminish hys number , or for a Maister of a house to put away his Seruauntes , because he would not haue any trouble with the gouernaunce of them : he that would so do , might be well resembled to a man that should sell his land because he wold not be troubled with the accompt of it . I thinke it meete that we did not onely encrease the feate of clothing , but also intend diuers other mo feats & occupations , ●…hereby our People myghte bee set a worke , rather then take away any occupation from them , specially such as clothynge is , that settes so many thousandes a woorke , and enryche both Towne and Countrey . Where it is occupyed in Venice , as I haue heard , and in many other places 〈◊〉 Sea , they rewarde and 〈◊〉 euery man that brings in any newe Arte , or mistery , whereby the people might bee set a worke , with such thinges as shoulde both finde their Mysteries are to be increased rather than diminished . worke men , and also bring some treasure or other commodity into the Countrey . And shall we contrarywise labour to destroy our best and most profitable trade , which is by clothing ? I would know what thing els might bring vs treasure from 〈◊〉 parties , or wherewith shoulde so many of our people be set a worke , as haue nowe their lyuings by clothing , if that occupacion were layde downe ?

Knight .

Mary wee might haue treasure ynough from outward Parties for our Woolles , though nonne were wroughte within the Realme : And as for an Occupation , to set our Clothiers a worke , they might bee set to the Plough and husbandry , and that should make husbandry to be the more occupied , & grasing lesse , when all these people that nowe doe occupy clothing , should fall to husbandry .

Doctor .

As to the first that 〈◊〉 sayd that Wooll is sufficient to bring in treasure : if it were ( as it is not in deede ) yet that Feate were not for the Weale , nor for continuaunce of the Realme . For when euery man would fall to breede sheepe and to increase Wooll , and so at length all other occupations should bee set a side , and breedinge of sheepe onely occupied , then yee knowe that a fewe sheepe maisters would serue for a whole Shyre : & so in processe of time the multitude of the subiects should be worne away , and none lefte but a fewe Sheepherds , which were no number suffici●…nt to serue the Prince at neede , or to defend this realme from Enemies . As to the other parte of your tale , whereby yee woulde that these Clothiers should fall from that occupation to husbandry : how coulde so many added to them that occupy husbandry already , get their lyuinge by the same , when they that bee husbandmen nowe , haue but a small Lyuinge thereby . And if yee woulde say to mee that they shoulde haue at all times , free vent and full Sale of their corne ouer sea , then commeth the same inconuenience in that ye thought to auoide before , by putting them from clothing . For some yeres it should happen either for warres or by reason of plenty in all parties beyond the Sea , that they should haue no vent of their corne , and then be dryuen to be idle , and consequently for lacke of liuing to assemble together , and make like vproares as ye spake of before . They haue in Fraunce more handy craftes occupied and a greater multitude of Artificers , then wee haue here by a greate deale , and for all that they haue made many greate sturres and commocions there before this : yet they will not destroy artificers , for they know that the highest Princes of them all , without such artificers could not mainteine their estate . Doth not all theyr toules customes , taxes , tallages , and subsidies chiefely growe by such artificers ? What king can mainteine his estate with his yearely reuenues onely growing of his landes : For as many seruaunts in a house well set a worke , gaines euery man somwhat to their masster : So doth euery artificer in a Realme ech gaine somewhat , and altogether a great masse to the king & his realm euery yeare it brigeth .

Knight .

And now because we are entred into communication of artificers , I will make this diuision of them . Some of them do but conuey money out of the countrey : Some other that Three sortes of Artificers . which they get , they do spend againe in the countrey . And the third sorte of Artificers is of them that doe bring in Creasure into the countrey . Of the first sort I recken all mercers , Grocers , Uintners , Haberdashers , Milleners , and such as do sell wares growing beyond the sea , and do fetch out our One bringeth out our Treasure . treasure for the same , which kinde of artificers as I recken them tollerable , yet not so necessary in a common Weale , but they might be best spared of all other . Yet if we had not other Artificers to bringe in as much treasure as they doe cary forth , we should be greate loosers by them . Of the second sorte bee these Shoomakers , Tailours , Carpenters , Another spend that they g●…t in the sa●…e countrey a●… gayne . Masons , Tylers , Bouchers , Brewers , Bakers , ann Uittailers of all sortes , which like as they get their liuing in the countrey , so they spend it ▪ but they bring in no treasure vnto vs . Therefore we must chearish well the third sort . And those be Clothiers , Tanners , Tappers , and Worstedmakers , The thrid sort bring in Treasure , and there fore must be cherished . onely that I knowe , ( which by their misteries and faculties ) do bring in any treasure . As for our woll●…s , felles , Tinne , Ledde , Butter and Cheese , these be commodityes that the ground beares requyring the industrye of a fewe persons , and if wee shoulde onely trust to such and deuyse nothing els to occupy our selues with , a few persons wold serue for the rearing of such thinges , and few also it would finde : and so should our realme be but like a grange better furnished with beastes then with men , whereby it mighte be subiecte to the spoile of other nations , aboute whych is the more to bee feared and eschued : because the countrey of his owne kinde is apte to brynge forth such thinges as bee for encrease of cattell , then for such thinges as be for the nourishment Pomp. Me . of men . If Pomponeus mela be to be beleeued , which descrybing thys I lande sayeth thus . Plana , ingens , & ferax : sed eorum quae pecora , quam homines benignius alant . That is to say , it is playne , large , and plentiful : But of these thinges that nourisheth Beastes more kindely then men . So many Forestes , Chases , Parkes , Marshes , and waste groundes being more here , then most commonly elsewhere , declare the same not to bee all in vayne , that hee affyrmes . It hath not so much erable Grounde , Tynes , Dlyues , Fruites , and such as bee both most necessary for the foode of men . And as they requyre many hands in their culture , so they finde most persons foode , as Fraunce and diuerse other Countries haue . Therefore as much grosid as is here apte for these things would be tourned as much as may be to such vses as may finde moste persons . And ouer that townes and Cities would be replenished wyth all kinde of Artificers , not onely clothyers , which is as it were our natural occupation , but with Cappers , Glouers , Paper makers , Glasiers , Paynters , Golde smithes , blacke smithes of al sortes , Couerlet makers , needle makers , pinners and such other , so as we should not onely haue inough of such thinges to serue our Realme and saue an infinyte treasure , that goeth now ouer for many of the same : but also might spare of such things ready wrought to be solde ouer , whereby we should fetch againe other necessary commodities or treasure . And this shoulde both replenish the Realme of People able to defende it , And also saue & win much treasure to the same . Such occupations alone do enrich diuers countreyes that be else baren of them selues .

And what riches they brynge to the Countries where they Mysteries doe enrich countrie●… that be els barren . be well vsed . The Countrey of Flaunders , and Germanie do well declare , where through such occupations it hath so many , & eke so wealthy Cities , that it were almost incredible so litle grounde to sustaine so much people . Wherefore in my minde they are far wide of right consideration , that would haue either none or els lessc clothing within this Realme , because it is some time occasion of busines & tumults , which commeth for lacke of vent . There is nothing euery way so commodious or necessary for mans vse , but it is sometimes by ill handling occasion of some displeasure , no not fier and water that be so necessary as nothing can be more .

Knight .

Yea maister Doctor we stand not in like case as Fraunce or Flaunders that yee speake of : if they haue not vente one way , they may haue it another way 〈◊〉 , for the firme land is rounde about them in maner . If they bee at warre with one Neyghbour , they will bee friendes with another to whose Countreyes they may sende theyr commodities to sell.

Doctor ,

So may wee bee , if wee were so wyse , to keepe one Friende or other alwayes in hande . Who will be so mad being a Priuate man , but hee will bee sure to doe so . Let wyse men consider what Friendes tl , is Real●… hath had Aliance with 〈◊〉 are to be ●…cased and kept . in time past . And if they bee nowe lost or intercepted an ●…ther way 〈◊〉 , let vs purchase other for them : or els geue as litle occasion of breache with our Neyghbours as may bee . The Wise man as I remember , sayth in Ecclesiastes : Non est bonum homini esle solum .

Knight .

Also in Fraunce they haue diuerse Bandes of men in Armes , in diuerse places of the Realme , to represse such 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Armi●…s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as in 〈◊〉 . Cumults quickely if any should arise . If wee had the like heere , wee might bee boulde to haue as many Ar●…ers as they haue .

Husband .

GOD sworbote , that euer wee should haue any such Tyranntes come among vs : for as they say , such will in the Countrey of Fraunce take poore mens Hennes , Chikens , Pigges , and other prouision , and pay nothinge for it , except it bee an ill turne , as to Rauishe hys Wyfe , or hys Daughters for it : and euen in like manner sayd the ●…ar chaunt man adding thereto , that hee thought that woulde rather bee an occa●…on of Commocions to bee stirted then Marchaunt . to bee quenched . For ( as hee sayd ) the Stomacks of Englishe men would neuer beare , to suffer such Iniuries , and Reproches , as hee hearde that such vsed to doe to the Subiects of Frau●…e , which in reproche t●…ey call Pe●…aunes .

Knight .

Mary the Pryace might restrayne them well yaough , for doing Outrages vpo●… great payaes .

Doctor .

What if it were 〈◊〉 in his power to do●… the Romaines had sometimes such men of armes in diuerse places for defence of the Empyre , it was thought , that a●… length it ouer threwe the same . Iulius Caesar doth that declare : and many times after that when the Emperors died , the men of warre Erected what Emperor they lysted , sometime of a Slaue or a Bondman contrary to the Election of the Senate of Rome , being chiefe Counsaylors of the Empyre , till the whole Empyre was cleane destroyed : it is not for commotions of Subiects , that Fraunce also ●…eepeth such : but the slate and necessi●…ty of the Countrey which is inuironed about with enemies , and neither sea nor wall betwene them , against whose Inrodes and inuasion they mayntayne those men of warre of necessity . They would faine lay them downe , if they durst for feare of their neighbours . And some wyse men among them haue sayd and written , that the same men of Armes may bee the distruction of their Kingdome at length . And beside that the large●…sse of our Dominion or Situation of the same towarde other Countreyes , doth not require such men , nor yet the reuenewes of this realme is able to make vp the like number with Fraunce . And then if we should make a lesse number , wee should declare our selues inferiour in power to Fraunce , to whom wee haue bene hitherto counted Superiour in successes , through the stoutenesse of our Englishe hearts . And therefore I would not haue a small sore cured by a greater griefe , nor for auoydinge A lesse g●…fe would not be 〈◊〉 ●…ith a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . of populer Sedicion , which happeneth very seldome and soone quenched , to bring in a continuall yoake & charge both to the Prince and the people .

Knight .

You say well , and so as I can say no more against your semence , but yet I would wishe your saying could satisfie other men as well as it doth mee .

Doctor ,

Well , it is nowe tyme to make an ende . I haue troubled you heere with a tedious and longe talke .

Knight .

I could be content to be troubled longer of that sorte .

〈◊〉 . & Capper .

And so coulde wee , though it were all this day , but for troubling of your selse gentle maister Doctor .

Knight .

Yet the most necessary pointe which wee spake of is yet behinde , that is , how these thinges may be remedied : And therefore wee will not goe from you till wee haue hearde your aduice heerein .

Doctor .

A Gods name , I will shewe my phantasie in that part : But let vs first goe to supper . And so wee went to gether to our Supper , where our Hoste had prepared honestly for vs .

THE THYRD DIAlogue , wherein are deuised some remedies for the same griefes . Knight .

AFter wee ●…ad well refreshed our selues at supper , I thought long till I had knowne the iudgement of mays●…r Doctor , about the remedies of the thinges aboue rem●…bred , how he thought they might bee best redressed , and with least daunger or alteration of things . ( And therefore I sayd vnto him thus : ) Since yee haue 〈◊〉 vnto vs ( good maister Toctor ) our dis●…ases and also the occasions thereof , we pray you leaue vs not destitute of conuenient remedies for the same . You haue perswad●…d vs full , and wee perceaue it well our selues , that we are not now in so good slate as wee haue bene in times past . And you haue shewed vs probable occasions that hath brought vs to that case , therefore nowe wee pray you shewe vnto vs , what mighte remedye these our grie●…es .

Doctor ,

When a man deth perceaue his griefe , and the occasion also of the s●…me , hee is in a good way of amendment . For knowing the occasion of the gr●…efe , a man may soone auoide the same occasion : and that being auoyded , the griefe is also taken away . For as the Phylosopher sayth : Sublata causa tollitur effectus But let vs briefly recount the grie●…es and then the occasions thereof , and thirdly goe to the inquisicion of the remedies for the same . First this vniuersall dearth in comparison of the former age , is the chiefest griefe that all men complaines most on . Secondly Inclosures , & turning of erable grounde to paslure . Thirdly decayinge of Townes , Towneshippes , and Uillages , and last diuision & diuersitie of opinions in religion . The occasions or causes of these , although I haue before diuersly declared after the diuersitie of mens mindes and opinions . Yet here I wyll take out of the same , But onely such as I thinke verely to be the very iust occasions in deede . For as I shewed you before , diuers men diuersly iudge , this or that to be the cause The originall cause in euery thing is to be searched . or occasion of this or that griefe , and bicause there may bee diuers causes of one thinge , and yet but one principal cause that bryngeth forth the thinge to passe : Let vs seeke oute the cause , omitting all the meane causes , which are driuen forward by the least oryginall cause , as in a presse going in at a slraight , the formost is driuen by him that is nexte hym , & the next by him that followes him , and the third by some vi olent and stronge thing that dryues him forwarde , whych is the first and pryncipall cause of the putting forwarde of the rest afore him . If he were kept backe and staied , al they that goe afore would stay withal . To make this more plain vnto you : as in a clocke there be many wheeles , yet the first wheele being sturred it dryueth the next , and that the thyrde &c. till the last that moues the instrument that strickes the clocke : so in making of an house , there is the maister that would haue the house made , there is the Carpenter , & there is the stuffe to make the house with al : the sluffe neuer stirres till the worke man do set it forward , the workeman neuer trauailes but as the maister prouoketh him with good wages , and so he is the principall cause of this house making . And this cause is of the learned called efficient , as that , that bringeth the pryncipal thing to effect . Perswade this man to let this building alone , and the house shall neuer come to passe , yet the house can not bee made without the stuffe , and workemen , and therefore they be called of some causae sine quibus non , and of some other Materiales , & Formales , but all commeth to one purpose . It is the efficient cause , that is , the pryncipall cause , without remouing of which cause the thing that cannot be remedied . And because that it was graffed in Diuerse sort●… o●… 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bee . 〈◊〉 mans iudgement , that the cause of any thing being taken away , the 〈◊〉 is taken awa●… with all . Therefore men tooke the causes of these thinges that we talke of wythoute iudgement , not discerning the principall cause from the meane causes , that by taking away of these causes that bee but secondary as it were , they were neuer the neare to remedy the thinge they went about , much like the wife of Aiax Cic top . 〈◊〉 . 5. that lost her husband in the shippe called Argos , wished that those Firre beames had neuer bene felled in Peleius wood , whereof the sayd shippe was made , when that was not the eff●…ent cause of the loosing of her husband , but the wyld ●…yre cast in the saidshippe , which did set it a fyre . Such causes as they be , be called remote , as it were to farre of : so they bee also idle and of no operation of them selues , without ▪ sume other to set them a worke , and percase I ( while I degresse so farre from my matter ) shal be thought to go as far from the purpose , yet to come to our matter , and to apply thys that I haue saide to the same , Some thinkes this dearthe beginnes Sublata causa tollitnr essectus . by the tenaunt in selling his wares so deare , & some other by the Lord in reysing his land so high . And some by these inclosures . And some other by the reysing of our coin or alteration of the same . Therefore some by taking some one of these things away ( as their opinion serued them to be the pryncipall cause of this dearth ) thought to remedye this dearth . But as the tryall of the thing shewed they to●…ched not the cause efficient pryncipall , and therefore theyr deuise toke no place , and if they had , the thinge had bene ●…emedied forthwith , for that is proper to the principall cause that as soone as it is taken awaythe effect is remoued also . Yet I confesse all these things rayseth together with this dearth , that euery of them should sceme to be the cause of it , neuerthelesse that is no good proofe that they should bee the causes of it , no more then was the steeple made at Douer , the cause of the decay of the Hauen of Douer , because the Hauen began to decay the same time , that the Steeple began to be builded : nor yet , though some of these because of the other in deede , yet they be not all the efficient causes of this dearth . But as I haue sayd before of men thrusting one another in a thronge one dryuing another , and but one first of all , that was the chiefe cause of that force : So in this Howe one thing is cause of another , and that of the third . matter that we talke of , there is some one thing that is the oryginall cause of these causes , that be as it were secondary and makes them to be the causes of other . as I take the reising of al prises o●… victauls at the husbandmans hand , is cause of the reysing of the rent of his land . And the Gentlemen fall so much to take ●…earmes to theyr hands least they bee driuen to buy theyr prouision to deare , that is a great cause againe that Inclosure is the more vsed : For Gentlemen hauynge much land in their hand and not being able to weild all and see it manured in husbandry , which requyreth the industry labourr and gouernaunce of a greate many of persons , doe conuerte moste of that Lande to Pas●…ures , wherein is requyred both lesse charge of Persons , and of the which ●…euerthelesse commeth more cleare gaines . Thus one thynge hanges vpon another , and sets forward one another , but one fyrst of all is the chi●…fe cause of all this circuler motion & impulsion . I 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hile , that the chiefe cause was n●…t in the h●…andman , nor yet in y● 〈◊〉 . Let vs 〈◊〉 whether it were in the marchaunt man . It appeares by reason that all wares bought of him are dearer now fare them they w●…re wont to be , the husbandman is dryuen to 〈◊〉 his commo dities deare●… : now that the matter is brought to maister ●…ar chaunt , how can ye anoyd the cause from being in you .

Marchaunt .

Sir easly ynough for as wee sell nowe dearer all things then wee were wont to do . So wee buy dearer all thinges of straungers : and therefore let them put the matter from vs , for we disburden our selues of this fault .

Doctor .

And they be not here to make aunswere , if they were , I would aske them why they sell their wares dearer nowe then they were wont to doe .

Marchaunt .

Mary and to that I hearde many of them aunswere er this ( when they were asked that question ) two maner of wayes . One was they selled in deede no dearer then they The straungers aunswere touching this dearth . were wont to do : saying for proofe there of that they woulde take for theyr commodities , as much and no more of our commodities then they were wont to do . As for our tod of woll they would gieue asmuch Wine , Spice or Silke as they were wont to geue for so much . Yea for an ounce of our siluer or golde , as much stuffe as euer was geuen for the same : and their other aunswere was that if we reckened they did sell their wares dearer because they demaunded moe pieces of our coyne for the same then they were wont to do , that was not their fault they saide but oures , that made our pieces lesse or lesse worth then they were in tymes past . Therefore they demaunded the moe pieces of them for their Wares , saying , they caried not what names wee woulde gieue our coynes , they would consider the quantitie & right value of it , that they were esteemed at , euery where through the world .

Knight .

Then I would haue answered them there of this sort . If they came hether but for our commodities , what made it the matter to them , what quantity or value our coyne were . If so they might haue as much of our commodities for the same as they were wont to do . If they came againe for our siluer and golde . It was neuer lawfull , nor yet is expedient they should haue any from vs . Wherefore I would thinke that was no cause why they should sell theyr wares dearer then they were wonte to doe .

Doctor .

Then he might haue aunswered againe , ●…hat it chaunsed not all wayes together , that when they had wares whych we wanted , we had againe al those wares that they looked for . And therefore they hauinge percase more wares necessarie for vs , then we had of such wares as they looked for , would be glad to receiue of vs such stuffe currant in most places , as might buy that they looked for elsewhere at their pleasure : And that they will say was not our coyne . And as for our lawes of not transporting ouer sea any gold or siluer , they passed not thereof , so they mighte haue the same ones conueyed them . As they had many waies to haue it so , which I haue before remembred . Finally hee might say that wee had not in deede our coyne in that estate our selues , that by the name they pretended , but esteemed both the value & quantity of the stuffe it was made of . For if they had brought vnto vs halfe an owne of siluer , wee would not take it for an ownce : nor if they brought vs brasse mingled with Siluer , we would not take it for pure S●…luer , and if wee would not take it so at theyr handes , why shoulde they take it otherwise at ours . Then they saw no man heere but woulde rather haue a cup of siluer than of brasse , no not the maister of our mi●…ts though they woulde otherwise perswade the one to be as good as the other . Wherefore seing vs esteeme the one in deede better then the other , as all the world doth beside , why should they not esteeme our coine after the quantity and value of the substaunce thereof , both after the rate it was esteemed amonge vs , & also euery other where . And so as in moe pieces now there is but the value that was in fewer pieces afore , therefore they demaunded greater number of pieces , but ●…et the like value in substaunce that they were wont to demaund for their wares . Now let vs see whether now goeth the cause of this matter ? from the straungers : For me thinkes he hath resonably excused himselfe & put it from him .

Knight .

By your tale it must bee in the coine , and 〈◊〉 in the ●…ynges highnes by whose 〈◊〉 that same was altered .

Doctor .

Yea percase it goes further yet , yea to such as were the first counsa●…lours of that deede , pretending it should bee to his high●…es greate and notable commoditye , which if his grace mought haue perceiued to haue ben but a momentain profit , and cont●…all losse both to his highnes and also hys whole R●…alme . He with his people might haue ben easely reuoked againe , from the practise of that simple de●…se : but as a man that entendeth to heale an other by a medecine that he thinkes good , thoughte it proue otherwise , is not much to be blamed : no more was the kinges maiesty in any wyse , ( in whose time this was don , which is not to be supposed to haue inte●…ded thereby any l●…sse , but rather commoditye to him selfe and his s●…iects ) to be herein reprehended , albeit the thing succeded beside the purpose .

Knight .

Then ye thinke plainely that this alteration of the coyne was the chiefe and pri●…cipall cause of this vniuersall dearth .

Doctor .

Yea no doubt , and of many of the sayd grienes that we haue ta●…ked ●…f , by meanes , it being the oryginall of all , and that beside the reason of the thing , being playne i●…gh of it self : . also experience & proofe doth make it more playne . For euen with the alteration of the coyne 〈◊〉 this dearth , and as the 〈◊〉 appayred so rose the mi●…s of thing●…s with all : & this to 〈◊〉 true , y● few 〈◊〉 of olde co●…ne which afterward 〈◊〉 , did 〈◊〉 . For ye should haue for any of the same coy●…e as much of any ware ●…ither outward or inward as euer was wont to be had for the same . For as the 〈◊〉 is mad●…●…sse ▪ there goeth more number to make vp the tale , and 〈◊〉 this 〈◊〉 not together at all mens handes , ther●…ore s●…me ha●…h greate losses and some other greate 〈◊〉 thereby , and that made such a generall 〈◊〉 for the thinge at the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . And thus to conclude ▪ I thinke this alteration of the Coine to haue ben the first origi●…all cause , that straungers first sould their wares dearer to vs , and that made all Farmors , and Tenaunts , that reared any commodity againe , to sell the same dearer . The dearth thereof made the Gentlemen to rayse their r●…ts , & to take Farmes to their ha●…es for their better 〈◊〉 , and consequently , to inclose more Groundes .

Knight .

If this were the ch●…fest ●…ause of the dearth , as of very good probability ( by you maister Doctor ) heere tofore alleaged , t should s●…eme to be : how commeth it to pass●… ( where as you say , if the cause be remoued , the effect is also taken away ) that the pryces of all thinges fall not backe to their olde rate , where as now long 〈◊〉 our english coyne ( to the great honour of our noble Princesse which now rayghueth ( hath bene again throughly restored to his former purity and perfection .

Doctor .

In de●…de sir I must needes confesse vnto you ( although it may seeme at the first sighte to discredite my former sa●…ings in some parte ) that notwithstanding that our Coyne at this present day , yea and many yeares past , hath recouered his aunciente goodnesse , yet the dearth of all thinges , which I before afirmed to haue proceeded of the decay thereof , to ●…emayne and continewe still amongst vs . Wherefore as your doubt heerein moued very aptly , and to the purpose , is well worthy the consideration : so doe I accoumpt it of such difficulty , the perhaps it would not be thought to stand with modesty , to vndertake without far●…her study presently to dissolue the same .

Knight .

Syr , I pray you for this time om●…t the pleadinge of m●…desty . I vnderstand well 〈◊〉 by your former talke , that you are not vnprouided of sufficient store ( without farther deliberation ) to satisfie vs w●…thal , in greater matters ( if neede were ) then these .

Doctor .

Well , I am cont●…t ( because you will haue it so ) to yeelde to your importunity . I will vtter franckely vnto you myne Opinion heerein , but vnder protestation that if you like it not , yee reiect it , imparting likewise with mee your owne Phantasies and iudgementes in the same : I finde therefore two speciall causes in myne Opinion , by meanes of the which , notwithstanding the restitution made in our ceine , the aforesayd dearth of thinges in respect of the former age remayneth yet among vs . The first is , that whereas imme diately after the basenesse of our Coyne in the time of King Henry the eight , the prices of all things generally among al sorts of people , rose : it must needes happen here withal ( as yee know ) that our gentlemen which liued onely vpon the ●…euenues of their lands , were as neare or nearer touched ( as is before proued ) with the smarte hereof , then any other of what order or estate so euer . This therefore being taken as most true , the Gentlemen desirouse to mayntaine their former credo●…e in bearing out the Porte of their Predecessors , were driuen o●… necessity as often as whensoeuer any Leases deuised for terme of yeares , by themselues or their auncestors were throughly expired , & fel into their hands , not to let them out againe for the most part , but as the rentes of them were farre racked beyo●…de the olde : Yea this racking and hoyssinge vp of rentes hath continued euer since that time vntill this present day : hereupon the husbandman was necessarily inforced , whereas his rent was now greater then before , and so continueth vnto this day , to sell his victailes dearer , & to continue the dearth of them : and likewise other artificers withall to maintaine the like proportion in their wares , wherefore as this dea●…th at the first time ( as I said before ) sprang of the alteracion of the coyne , as of his first and chiefest efficient cause : so d●…e I attribute the continuaunce of it hitherunto and so for●…ward , partly to the racked and stretched rentes which haue lasted , yea , and increased euer since that time hetherunto , & so are like to continue I know not how long . Now if we would in these our dayes , haue the olde pennyworthes generally restored among vs a gayne . The restoring of our good Coine , which already is past , & before the improued rentes would only of it selfe haue be●… sufficient to haue brought this matter to passe , will not serue in these our dayes , except withall the racked rentes bee pulled downe which possibly cannot be without the common consent of our landedmen throughout that whole rea●… . Another reason I conceiue in this matter to be the great store & plenty of treasure , which is walking in these parts of the world far more in these our dayes , than euer our forefathers haue sene in times past . Who doth not vnderstand of the infinite summes of gold & siluer , which are gathered from the Indies & other countries , & so yearely transported vnto these coastes ? As this is otherwise most certain , so doth it euidently appeare by the common report of al auncient men liuing in these daies . It is their constant report , that in times past & within the memory of man , he hath ben accoumpted a rich & wealty man & wel able to keepe house among his neighbors which all things discharged , was clearely worth xxx . or xl . l' . but in these our dayes y● man of the estimation , is so far in the common opinion from a good houskeeper , or man of wealth , that he is reputed the next neighbor to a begger . Wherefore these ii . reasons seemed vnto me to contain in them sufficient probability for causes of the continuaunce of this generall dearth .

Knigh●… .

Yea , but ( sir ) if the increase of treasure be partly the occasion of this continued dearth : then by likelyhood in other our neighbors nations , vnto whom yearely is conuayghed great store of gold and siluer , the pryces of victayles , and other wares in like sorte , raysed according to the increase of their treasure ?

D●…ctor .

It is euen so , and therefore to vtter freely myne Opinion ( as I accoumpt it a matter very hard for the difficulties aboue rehersed to reuoke or call backe agayne all our Enlish●… wares vnto their old prices ? so doe I not take it to be either profitable or conuenient for the Realme , excepte wee would wishe that our commodities should bee vttered good cheape to straungers , and theirs on that other side deare vnto vs , which could not be without great impouerishing of the Commonweale , in a very shorte time .

Knight .

Now that you haue so well touched the occasion of this derth , and what is to be hoped or wished of the same so fully , that I am well satisfied withall . I pray you sh●…we me the remedies of this great Inclosiers , whereof all the realme complaineth of so much , and hath complayned long vpon . For you haue well perswaded how it is a meane of greate desolation of this real●…ne , and that is longe of the great profit that men haue by pasture , ouer that they haue by tillage that they turne so much to pasture . Now I would fayne heare how it might be remedied againe : for I haue hearde this matter of long time , & often reasoned vpon aswell in Parliament , as in Counsayles , & yet small remedy found therefore that tooke effect .

Doctor .

If I , then after so many wise heades as were in those Parliaments and Counsailes , would take vpon me to correct ( as they say ) Magnificat , & to finde a remedy for this thinge , which they could neuer doe . I might be reckened very arrogant .

Knight .

Yet tell your phantasie therein , for though you misse of the right meane to reforme that , it shall be no more shame for you to doe so , then it was for so many wise men as yee speake of to misse .

Doctor .

You say truth , and since I speake nothing in this part , that I would haue taken as it were for a law or determined thing , but as a certayn motion for other wise men to consider , & to admit or reiect , as to their better reason shall seeme good : therefore as yee haue boldned me already with your patience to say thus farre , I will not spare to declare my minde in this . But still I must keepe my grounde , that I spake of , that is to try out the effectuall cause of this inclosures , and then by taking away of the cause to redresse the thinge .

Knight ,

I pray you doe so , for to mee it seemes very reasonable that ye say and agreeable to that I heard a good Ph●…tion tell me ones , when I was sicke of an ague : when I asked him why he gaue me purgati●…s that made me yet weaker Sublata causa tollitur effectus . then ●… was , being weake inough already : saying , hee had more neede to geue me thinges that should make me stronger . Then he answered me that choler was the cause of my sickenes , and that hee gaue me those purgations to auoyde this humour , which being the cause of my disease ones taken away , the sickenes should be ridde from mee with all . And therfore I pray you vse your accustomed order in this matter and tel the cause of these Inclosures .

Doctor .

I shewed you before in our communication in the Garden , the thinges that I thought to be the cause thereof , and partely the remedy of the same .

Knight .

So did other men among vs tell their fantasie as then , but nowe , we pray you tell which of al those causes ye take for the necessary and efficient cause of this matter .

Doctor .

To tell you plaine it is auarice that I take for the principall cause thereof but can we deuise that all couetousnes can be taken from men . No , no more than we can make men to be without How Inclosiers may be r●…medied . wealth , without gladnes , without feare , and wythoute all affections : what then ? we must take away from men the occasion of their couetousnes , in this part , what is that ? the ●…xceeding luker that they see grow by these inclosures more then by their husbandry . And that may bee done by any of these two meanes that I will tell you . Either by the minishing the luker that men haue by gasing . Or els by aduaunsing Omnes sun●… lucri cupidi . of the profit of husbandry til it be as good , and as profitable to the occupiers as grasing is , for euery man ( as Plato saith ) is naturally couetous of luker . And that wherin they see most luker , they wil most gladly exercise : I shewed you before , that there is more luker by grasing of x. Acres to the occupier alone , then is in the tillage of xx . And the causes therof , be many , one is the grasing requires , small charge & smal labor , which in tillage consumes much of the mens gains , though it be true that the tillage of x. acres brings more gaines generally amongs the maister & all his mainy then the grasing of xx . acres . Another great cause is , that whatsoeuer thing is rered vpon grasing hath free vente both ouer this side & also beyond the sea to be sold at the highest penny . It is contrary of all thinges reared by tillage , for it requires both great charge of seruaunts & of labor . And also if any good cheape be of corne , it paieth scant for the charge of the tillage . And then if the market do arise either within the Realme or without , the poore husband shal be so restrained from sellyng his corn , that he neuer after shal haue any ioy to set his plough in the ground whych maketh euery man forsake tillage and fall to grasing which bringeth all these Inclosures .

Knight .

Now what remedy for that .

Doctor .

Mary as for the first poynt , that is , touching the vnequal charges of tillage and grasing , that can not be holpen in al pointes , by reason the nature of both reapes the contrarye . Therefore the latine tongue calles the one , that is pasture Prat●… quasi paratum . pratum , that is asmuch to say as : paratum , ready . But thee other thinge might be remedied , that that husbandman mighte haue asmuch liberty at all times to sel his corne either with in the Realme , or without : as the grasiers hath to fell hys , which would make the husbandmen more willing to occupy theyr plough . And other seeing them thriue would turn theyr pasture to tyllage . And though it enhaunse the market for the time , yet would it cause much more tillage to be vsed and consequentely more Corne , within time of plentye within this Realme , might brynge in much treasure . And in time of●… arsity would suffice for the realme as shewed you before . And this with luker they should ●…te entysed to occupy the Plough , yea & with other priuileges . I haue red that in this realme sometime there was such a lawe as a man that had trespassed the law of misaduenture moughte haue taken the Plough tayle for his sainctuary . Also that occupation was had so honourable amonge the Romaines that one was taken from holding the plough to bee Consull in Rome , who after his yeare ended thought no scorne to resort to the same feate againe . What occupation is so necessary or so profitable for mans life as this is . Or what mistery is so void of al craft as the same is , & how litle is it regarded : yea how much it is despised : that many in these dayes rep●…tes then but as villains , pesaunts , or slaues , by whom the proudest of them haue their liuings . So that I maruaile much there is any ( seing such ability & contempt of the thing ) wil occupy the feat of husbandry at al : For as honour nourisheth al sciences , so dishonor must needes decay them . And therfore if ye wil haue husbandry encreased ye must honor & cherish it , that is to let them haue honest gaines thereby & since that gains shal come into your countrey why shoulde you bee offended therewt. Another way is to abate the commodity of grasing as when any taxe is requisite to be graunted to the Prince , if lands be chargeable thereto , to charge one aker of pasture asmuch as two of erable . Or els to burden wolles & fels , & such things as are reared by grasing the passe to the partes be yond the sea vnwrouth , with double talage ouer any corn transported , and so by enhaunsing the profite of tyllage , and abasing of the profit of grasing , I doubte not but Husbandrye would be more occupied and grasing much lesse . And therby these inclosures to be broken vp . Also there is one thing of old time ordeined in this realme which being kept vnaltered would helpe hereunto also , that is where men are enter comminers in the common fields , & also haue their porcions so entermedled one with another , that though they wold they could not enclose any part of the said fields so long as it is so . But of late diuers men finding greater profite by grasing then by Husbandry , haue founde the meanes either to buy theyr neighbors partes round aboute them . Or els to exchaunge with them so many acres in this place , for so many in another : whereby they might bringe all theyr landes together , and so inclose it , for the auoiding whereof I thinke verely , that it was so of olde time ordeined , that euery Tenaunt had his lande not all in one parcell of euery field , but enterlaced with his neighbors landes so as here should bee three acres , and then his neighbor should haue as many , & ouer that he other three or iiii . and so after the like rate be the most partes of the copy holdes that I do know in this countrey , which I thinke good were still so continued for auoyding of the sayd enclosures , and thus farre as to that matter .

Marchaunt .

Now that ye haue well declared your opinion in these matters of the common dearth and enclosures . I pray you tell vs your mynde what should be the occasion of the decay Of Townes decayed . of the good townes of this Realme , and of all bridg●… high-wayes , and Hospitalles , and how the same may be remedied and releued againe . For that these husbandmen & dwellers of the countrey , finde not so greate lacke in the fieldes abroade , but Citizens an●… Burgeses fynde as much within theyr walles ,

Doctor ,

Since I haue begon to take vpon me to tell my phantasie in all these things . I will goe through . In mine opinion . the good occupations heretofore vsed in the sayd Townes , was occasion of theyr wealth in times past , and the laying down of those occupations againe is the cause of the decay of the same townes . Wherefore if such occupations may be ●…euyued againe in the same , they woulde recouer their former wealth againe .

Marchaunt .

I beleeue that well , that the decay of the occupations was the decay of these townes , but what I pray you , was the occasion of such decay of the occupations .

Doctor .

I will tell you while men were contented with such as were made in the market townes next vnto them , then were The occasion of the decay of our Townes . they o●… our Townes and cities wellset a worke , as I knew the time when men were contented with Cappes , Hattes , Gyrdels , and Poyntes , and all manner of garmentes made in the townes next adioyning , whereby the Townes were then well occupied and set a worke , and yet the money payd for the same stuffe remayned in the countrey . Now , the poorest youngeman in a countrey cannot be content with a lether gyrdle , or lether poyntes , Kuyues , or Daggers made nigh home . And specially no Gentleman can be contente to haue either Cappe , Cote , Doublet , Hose , or Shyrte in his countrey , but they must haue this geare come from London and yet many thinges hereof are not there made , but beyond the sea : whereby the artificers of our good townes are idle and the occupations in London , and specially of the townes beyond the seaes , are well set a worke euen vpon our costs . Therfore I would wish some stay were deuised for comming of so many trifles from beyond the Sea , and specially of such thinges as might be made here amongs our self . Or els might be either all spared or els lesse vsed amonge vs , as these drynking and looking glasses , paynted clothes , perfumed gloues , daggers , kniues , pinnes , pointes , aglets buttons , and a thousande other thinges of like sort . As for silkes , wines , and spice , if there came lesse ouer , it made no matter . But specially I would that nothing made of oure commodities , as wolles felles , and tinne , such be brought from beyond the sea to be solde here : but that all those should be wrought within this realme : were it not better for vs that our owne people were set a worke with such thynges then straungers . I am sure xx . thousand persons might bee set a worke within this realme , that are set a worke beyond sea with those thinges that now be made beyond the Sea , and might be made here : ( mighte not that Prince bee glad of any ayde , whe●…eby hee might finde X. M. persons through the whole yeare , and burden his treasures with neuer a p●…nny thereof ? ) I think these things might be wrought here not onely sufficient to set so many a worke and serue the realme , but also to serue other parts , as all kinde of Cloth , & ●…ersey : Worsteds , Couerlets , & Carpets of tapestry : Caps , knit Sleues , Hosen , Peticotes , and Hattes : then Paper both white and browne , parchment , velam , and all kinde of Leather ware , as gloues , poyntes , gyrdl●…s , skins for Ierkins : and of tinne all maner of vessell , and also all kinde of glasses , and ●…arthen pots , tennice balles , cardes , tables , & chesses , since we will needes haue such things . And Daggers , kniues , hammers , sawes , chesells , axes & such things made of yron might not wee bee ashamed to take all these things at straungers handes , & set such a multitude of their people a worke as I spake of now , whose finding & wages we doe beare now . Where all this profit might bee saued within the Realme , where it should not goe from vs , but returne to vs agayne from whence it came , and in settinge vp of these occupations , I woulde haue them most preferred and cherished , that bringeth most commodity and treasure into the countrey , as yee must consider three sortes of occupations : one that carrieth out the treasure , the second sorte , that as it carrieth none forth of the countrey , so it bringeth none in , but that it getteth it spendeth in the countrey , the third bringeth in treasure to the countrey . Of the first sorte are 〈◊〉 , Milleners , 〈◊〉 , these galley men , Mercers , Fuslian Sellers , Grocers , & Pothecaries that sell●…th vs any Wares made beyond the Sea , for they doe but exhaust the treasure of the Realme . Of the second sorte are Uyctaylers , Inholders , Bouchers , Bakers , Brewers , Taylors , Cordwinders , Sadlers , Carpenters , Io●…ners , Masons , Blacke Smythes , Turners , & Hoopers , which like as they conuey no money out of the countrey , so they bryng none in . But where as they get it they spend it . Of the thyrd sort bee these , clothiers , cappers , worstedmakers , That art●… is to be most chearished in a towne that bringes most to the towne . Pewterers , Tanners which bee all that wee haue of any arte which I can now recken , that brings into the realme any treasure . Therefore these artes are to bee chearished , whereas they be vsed , and where they bee not they would be set vp , and also other sciences mo , as making of glasses , making of Swerdes , Daggers , R●…iues , and al tooles of Iron and Steele , also making of pinnes , poynts , laces , thred , and all manner of paper , and parchment . I haue heard say that the chiefe trade of Couentry was heretofore in making of blew threde , and then the towne was riche euen vpon that trade in maner onely , and now our thredde comes all from beyonde Sea . Wherefore that trade of Couentry is decaied , and thereby the towne likewise . So Bristow Townes are enriched with some one ●…ade had a great trade by making of pointes , and was the chiefe misterie that was exercised in the towne , and albeyt these be but two of the lightest faculties that are , yet were there two great townes chiefly mainteined by thesetwo faculties aboue rehearsed . I heard say in Venice ( that moste florishing citie at these daies of al Europe ) if they may here of any cunning craftes man in any faculty , they will finde the meanes to allure him to dwell in their citye , for it is a wonder to see what a deale of Money one good o●…upyer doth brynge into a towne , though he himself doth not gains to his owne commoditye but a poore lyuing . As for example , what Money one Worstedmaker brynges into the towne where he dwelles , and how many hath lyuings vnder him , & what wealth he bryngs to the towne where he dwels , truly I can not sufficiently declare , for by a few worstedmakers that some townes haue they are growen to great wealth & ryches . So of Clothyng and Cappyng . But where other cities do allure vnto them good workemen , ours will expell them oute , as I haue knowen good workemen as well Smythes and Weauers haue common from straunge parties to some Cityes within this Realme ●…ntending to set vp theyr craftes , and because they were not free there ( but specially because they were better Workemen then was any in the Towne ) they coulde not bee suffered to worke there . Such incorporations had those Misteries in those Townes that none might worke there in their faculty , except they did compounde with the first .

Capper .

And do you thinke it reasonable that a straunger should bee as free in a City or Towne , as they that were prenti●…es there : then no m●…n would bee Prentice to any occupation if it we●…e so .

Doctor .

I sayd not that they shall haue commonly lyke libertye or Fraunchise , but as one crafte makes but one perticuler companie of a Towne or City , so I would haue the weale of the whole City rather regarded , then the commodity or Fraunchise of one crafte or mistery : for though commonly none should be admitted there to worke , but such as are free yet when a singuler good workeman in any mistery comes , which by his good knowledge might both enstructe them of the Tow●…ie being of the same faculty , and also bringe into the Towne much Commodity beside . I woulde in that case haue priuate Liberties and Priuileges geue place to a publique weale , and such a man gladly admitted for hys excellency to the Freedome of the same Towne , wy●…houte burdenyng of him wyth any charge for his fyrst entry or set ting vp . Yea where a Towne is decayed and lackes artificers to furnish the Towne with such craftes , as were other sometymes exercised well there or might bee , by reason of the situation and Commodity of the same Towne , I woulde haue such craftes men allured out of other places where they bee plenty , to come to those Townes decayed to dwell , offering them theyr Freedome , yea theyr house rente free , or some stocke lent them , of the common stocke of such townes , and when the towne is wel furnished of such Artistcers , then to stay the comming in of For●…rs , but whyle the towne lackes enhabitauntes of artific●…rs . It were no policy for the restauration of the towne to keeye of any stra●…g artificers , for the most parte of all townes are mainteyned by craftes men of all sortes , but specially by those that ma●…e any wares to sell out of the countrey and brynges ther●…fore treasure into the same . As clothiers , cappers , worstedmakers , hatmakers , poyntmakers , pinners , painters , founders , smythes of all sortes , cutlers , glouers , tanners , parch ment makers , gyrdlers , poursers , makers of paper , thredmakers , turners , basket makers , and many other such . As for the mercers , and haberdashers , vinteners , and grocers , I cannot see what they doe to a towne , but fynde a liuinge to v. or vi . housholdes , and in steade thereof empoue●…ish ten times as many , but since men will needes haue silkes wine and spice it is as good that men do spend theyr money vpon such in their owne towne , as to be dryuen to seeke the same further , as for the rest of the artificers , like as I said before euen as they take no money out of the Countrey so they brynge none in , as Taylours Shoomakers , Carpenters , Ioyners Tylers , Ma●…ons , Bouchers , vittailers , & such like . Also an other thinge I recken woulde helpe much to relieue oure Townes decaied , if they would take order that al the wares made there , should haue a speciall marke , and that marke to be set to none but to such as be truely wrought , and also that euery Artificer dwelling out of al townes ( such as cannot for the commodity of their occupations , be brought to any towne to enhabite , as Fullers , Tanners and Clothers ) should bee limitted to bee vnder the correction of one good Towne or other , and they to sell no ware but such as are fyrst approued and sealed by the Towne that they are lymitted vnto . And by these two meanes , that is to say , fyrste by staying of wares wrought beyond sea , which might b●…e wrought within vs , from comming in to be sold. Secondly by restraining of our wolles , tinne , felles , & other commodityes from passing ouer vnwroughte . And thirdly by brynging in ( vnder the correction of good towns ) artificers dwelling in the countreies : making wares to be sole outward , & those wares to be viewed and sealed by the towne seale before they shoulde bee solde . I woulde thynke oure Townes myght bee soone restored to theyr auncyent Wealth or far bettered if they would follow this .

Knight .

Now we pray you go to the last matter ye spake of how these diuersitie of opynions may be taken away , which troubles the people very sore , and makes greate sedition and deuision amonge them , and in maner makes debate betwene neighbour & neighbour , the Father and hys Son , the man and his Wyfe , whych is yet more to bee feared , then all other the foresayd losses of worldly goods . For if wee were neuer so poore , and did neuerthelesse agree amonges our selues , wee should lycke oure selues hoale againe in short space .

Doctor .

Yee say truth with concord weake thinges doe encrease & 〈◊〉 big . And contrarywise with discorde strong things waxe weake . And it must needes be true that truth it selfe Goncordia quae res crescunt discordia maximè di●…abuntur . sayth . Euery kingdome deuided in it selfe shal bee desolate . Wherefore I cannot forbeare to shewe you my poore opinion , how so great a mischiefe as this is , may bee auoyded out of this our common Weale : & stil I will vse one trade , as in seeking out the oryginall cause , and by takinge awaye of that , to shewe the remedye . I take the chiefe cause hereof aswel the sinnes of them that be the ministers of Christs holy word and misteries , as of you that bee the flocke . And firste of ours that haue swarued altogether , from their due course order and profession to all kinde of liberality , not onely to the basenes of lay men , but far inferiour to them in pryde , couetousnes , and such . Wherefore yee lay men seeing in vs no excellency in our maners in deede , thinke vs vnworthye to bee your Leaders and Pastors , or to whose doctryne yee shoulde gieue credence , whome yee see in lyuing far discrepant from the same . And therefore ye take vpon you the iudgment of spirituall thinges , to whom i●… doth not appertain . As one inconuenience draweth euer another after him , for ' so long as the ministers of the church were of those maners & conuersation agreeable with theyr doctryne . So long all men , yea the greatest prynces of the worlde and the wysest men wer content to beleue our doctrine , & to obey vs in things concerning the 〈◊〉 : & since we fel from the perfection of life , we grew out of credit , & the holy doctrine of Chryst suffered slaunder by our sinful liuing . So we haue gieuen the fyrste occasion of this euil , & yee haue taken it as an instrument to The occasion of the scylme in matters of reli gion . worke this scysme withal . And though both do euil therin , yet the remedy ought to begin at the roote of this mischyef , which I take to bee in the ministers & pastors spirituall . And to be playne with you , and no more to dissemble oure ownefaultes , then I haue done yours , except wee reforme our selues fyrst , I can haue no greate trust to see this generall scysme and deuision in religion vtterly taken away : it may percase , wyth authority be for a time appeased , but ne uer so as it sprynge not vp againe , except wee reforme oure selues fyrst .

Knight .

Mary and I thinke yee haue bene wel disciplined & corrected already , so as yee had good cause to bee reformed as by taking much of your possessions from you , and in burdening of your benefices with subsidies , as well annuall as proportional , and other wayes . What other reformation would yee haue more .

Doctor .

Yea no doubte wee haue had beating inoughe if that would haue serued , but some maisters with litle beating will teach theyr schollers better , than other wyth more strypes can do , and agayne some schollers will be reformed wi●…h lesse beating then other . So you and we do now , you in beating inough but litle teaching , and wee agayne little regardyng the 〈◊〉 dolearne as litle . For notwithstanding these pu nishments that we haue had , the reproches and reuylinge and opening of our faultes , see how many of vs haue reformed our selues , yea so much as in our outwarde duties , whereunto we are bound both by gods lawe , and our cannons lawes , and decrees : how many moe of vs haue resorted to our 〈◊〉 to be resident thereon , which not onely by the sayd lawes , but also vpon greate penalties wee are bounde vnto by the lawes of this Realme . How many lesse now then before haue studied to heape ●… 〈◊〉 vpon Benefice , when wee bee scante able to discharge one of them , what better tryall or examination is there nowe in admyttyng of ministers of the church ▪ What more exacte searche is made by our Bishops , for worthy men to be admitted to the cure of soules : What letter execution of our cannons . and decrees doth our Bishoppes , Deanes , and Archdearons in their visitations now , then they did before ? Yea what better hospitality residence , or ministration eyther of the word or of their other duties do our prelates and Byshops now then they did before ? doe they not lurke in theyr mansions & manour places far from theyr cathedral churches as they were wont , and scant ones a yeare wil see their principall church , where they ought to be continually resident ? be they not in a maner as vnmeete for preaching the word of God as euer they were , for all these plagues that God sendes to them , but they are so blynded that they cannot see wherefore they be thus punished , & construe it to be for other caus●…s , as by the couetousnes of lay men in desiringe theyr Poss●…ssions , by a hatred conceiued agaynste them for not obteyning theyr purpose at men of the Churches hand . Or for that they cannot abyde the correction of the church , or such other causes as they imagine with themselues . And thinke that the indignation against them shortly will slacke of it selfe : But I pray God it doe not rather encrease , as I feare me it wil , except wee amend vs the rather . How can men be content to pay that tenth of theyr goods which they get with theyr sore labour and sweate of theyr browes , when they cannot haue for it againe neither ghostly comforte nor bodely : what layman wil be any thing scrupelus to keepe those tythes in his owne handes , when hee sees vs do nothyng more then he for it : What credite wyll any man gieue to our doctrine , whom th●…y see so lighte in lyuing , what reuerence will they gieue our personnes in whose maners , they see no grauity . But to passe from these matters to others . There be most go●…ly ordinaunces made by our lawes by authority of Counsailes generally , that all Atchdeacons should visite in person yearely theyr pre●… . The Bishop euery three yeres to see the whole Diocesse what is to be reformed either pryuately or generally , that priuate faults might be refourmed forthwith and the generall at the next Synode , and therefore they haue theyr procurations . Uisite they doe not in person as they ought to doe , but by deputies , more for theyr procurations then for any reformation . The money is surely gathered but the cause wherefore it was geuen nothing kepte : the stipend is exacted , and the worke wherefore it was due , vndon . Then is there another good ordenaunce , and godly absolued after the like sort : where euery bishop should yere y keepe a synode in his dioces of all euangeliall persons , and euery archbishop a sinod for his whole prouince , euery third yere that if any thing occurred in the diocesse worthy reformation it might be referred to the prouinciall congregation . If it were either doubtfull to the bishop or could not be reformed without greate authority then the Bishoppes alone . Where bee these sinod●…s now kepte ? yet they receiue euery yere their sinodals of the poore priests : of such good ordenance & godly there is nothing kept , but the which is there owne priuate commodity , which be that procurations & sinodals : y● other part wherfore that charge was laid is omitted , the burden remaineth & the duty is taken away , yet better it were that both y● one & the other were taken away , than to haue the good parte taken & the worse to remayne . If they will say , that there needeth now a daies no such visitation , nor ●…ynods , then there needed neuer none of them , for moe thinges to bee reformed among vs , were neuer then be now , nor reformation neue●… more necessary . But our prelats would say they dare make no lawes in such sinodes for feare of penury , what neede any mo lawes made then they haue already ? what should let them to put these in execution that be already made ? specially sins they haue the aide of the temporal lawes thereto , is there not statutes made in parliament for residence , and for restrayning of pluralitie of benefices ? which had neuer neede to haue ben made , if wee would haue put our lawes in execution . Are not we worthy to haue other men to correcte and reforme vs , when we can not reforme our selues ? Is it maruaile that wee bee not out of credence when oure life and conuersationis contrary to our owne lawes and profession , and that the religion of them suffereth slaunder offence and reproache , through our defaultes shal be ones required of our hands . Therfore if we wil haue this scisme taken away from christs church , let vs first reforme our selues & put our lawes in execution , as in resorting to our benefices ●…o keepe r●…sydence , and in contentyng our selues wyth one Benefice a pieee : And ●…yth the lyuinge that is appointed to vs for our ministration without deuising of other extraordinary & vnlawfull gaines . For what is more agreeable wyth reason , then a man to spende his tyme where he hath his lyuing and to do his office , for that he hath the benefit of : And seeing euery benefice is a mans liuing , and if it be not Propter officium datur beneficium , it might be amended till it be a competent liuing , and euery one requireth one mans whole charge . What reason is it that one man should haue two mens liuings & two mens charge , where he is able to discharge but one . Then to haue moe & discharge the ●…re of neuer a one is to far●…e agaynst reason . But some percase will say , there be some of vs worthy a greater preferment then other , & one bene●… were to litle for such a one . Is there not as many degrees , in the variety of Benefices , as there is in mens qualities ? Yes forsooth there is : yet in this realme ( thanked be God ) benefices from M. markes to xx . markes a yeare of sundry values to endow euery man with , after his qualities and degree . And if a meane ben●…e happen to fall let euery man be contented therewith til a better fal . And if he be thought worthy of a better , let him leaue the first and take the better , for the meanest Benefice is a sufficient liuinge for some man , which should be destitute of a liuing , if that benefice and other like should be heaped vp together in great menshāds . Yea I doe knowe , that men which haue such meane benefices be more commonly resident , and keepe better hospitality on the same , then they that haue greater benefices . It is a common prouerbe . It s meary in Hall : Whan Beardes wags all . Nowe looke throughe a whole Diocesse , you shall not finde xx . persons resident that may dispend xl . l ▪ a piece , nor of al the benefices in a Diocesse , the fourth person resident ouer the same . What temperal office is so far abused as these be that be spirituall and of greater charge : I pray God send our Prelats Eyes to see these Enormities : for it shoulde seeme that they are so blinded that they cannot see them . And then I doubt not but all delayes set a part they will reforme them : and if they do not , I pray God send our Maiestrats temperall the minde to reforme these thinges with their seculer power . And to study for the reformation of them , rather then for theyr possessions , Christian Princes beare not their swords in vayne : nor yet is it so straunge a thing to see Christian princes reforme the Prelates that swarue from their dueties . Thus far be it spoken touching the reformation of them that be mynisters of the Church . Now to speake of that is to be reformed of our parte that be of the laytye , yee must vnderstand , that al that geue them selues to the knowledge of any faculty , are commonly subi●…ct to eyther of two vices ( as that great clarke Tully doth report ) that one Cicero de o●…i . Lib. 1. is to take these things that we know not for things knowne , or as though we knewe them : for a voyding of which fault men ought to take both good space and great diligence in consideration of things , ere they come to geue iudgement The faultes in the part of the laytye . of the same : the other vice to bestowe too great a study & labour about obscure and hard thinges nothing necessary . Let vs now consider and those faults be not among you at these dayes , yee be all now studious to know the understanding of holy scripture . And well for there can beno better desire , more honest , nor more necessary for any christian man : but yet doe yee not see many younge men before they haue either taken any longe time , or any good diligence in the consideration or study of scripture , take vpon them to iudge of high matters being in controuersie , geeuing to quicke assent eyther to their owne inuention , or to other mens : before they haue considered what might be sayd to the contrary . And this fault is not onely seene in men studious of the knowledge of scrip●…ure , but also in younge students of all other sciences : shall yee not finde a student in the law of the realme , after he hath bene at the study of the lawe not past 〈◊〉 . yeares , more ready to assoyle you a doubtfull cause of the lawe , then either he himselfe or another , after that he hath stu●…ied the law xii . or xiiii . yeares . Yea no doubt , so it is in a young Grammarian , Logitian , Rethoritian , & so of al other sciences . Therefore Pythagoras forbade his Schollers to speake the firste v. yeares y● the●… came to him , which lesson I would to God yee would be content to obserue , before yee gaue any iudgement in matters of holy scri●… . And then I doubt not , but after vii . yeares reading , yee would by col lation of one place with another of scripture , finde a greater difficulty therein , then yee doe now , & bee more scripulouse to geue an aunswere in high things then yee be nowe : and this harme commeth of rashe iuegement in the part , that when a man hath once 〈◊〉 his opinion in any thing , he will thinke it a great shame for him to be brought from that he hath once affirmed for truth . Therefore what so euer he readeth after he construeth for the maynetenaunce of his opinion , yea and wil force that side not only with his words and perswasions , but also with that powre and authority that he hath , and will labour to bring other to the same opinion as many as he can , as though his Opinion shoulde b●…e the more true , the m●…e fauor●…s that he may get of the same . By such meanes if we s●…eke but for the truth , that is not to be iudged to be alwaies on the best side that getteth the ouer hand by power , authority , or Suffrages extorted : it is not like in the disceptacion , & inquisition of the truth , as it is in a fight or a wrestling : for he that hath the ouer hand in these thinges hath the victory , and in the other hee that is sometimes put to scilence , or other wise vanquished in the sighte of the worlde , hath the victory and conquest of truth , on his side . Since we contend but for the knowledge of the truth what should wee deuide our selues into factions and parties : but let the matter be quietly discussed , tryed , and examined , As Constantyne the great , did in the time of Ari●… . by men to whom the iudgement of such thinges appertayneth . And prouide in the meane time that neyther party doe vse any vyolence agayne the other , to bring them by force to this or that side , vntle the whole or most part of them to whom the discuscion of such things appertayn●…th vnto , ●…oe freely consent and determine the matter . That is the onely way to descide such controuersies , and since this contencion must once haue an ende : it were better take an end be times then too late , when percase more harme shal haue ensued of this daungerous Scisine , as hath already done in other parties euen before our Eyes . And in like things hath before this time bene seene , of such sort as it is too lamentable to bee remembred : what losse of Christian men ? what diminishing of the Christian faith ? what continuall warres , hath the Faction of the Arrians bene the occasion of ? did it not seperate and seuer at length all Asia , and Affricke from the Christian fayth ? Is not the Religion , or rather the wicked supersticion of the Turke graffed ouer this Arrian Sect ? did it not take his foundation thereof ? As there is no dyuision more daungerous , then that which groweth of matters in Religion : so it were most expedient and necessary to bee quickely remedied , which cannot bee done by any other way then by a free and generall counsel , that hath bene alwayes from the time of the Appostles who first tooke that remedy ( euen to their dayes ) the onely way to quiet and appease all controuersies in religion . And no doubt the holy Ghost as his promise is , wil be priuate in euery such assembly , that is gathered together by no force or labor of any affection . But now we will say , thoughe wee would for our partes set a side partiality , and be indifferent and vse no cohercion to get numbers & voyces that should fauour our partes , who can promise that the Byshoppe of Rome & other Prelates would doe the same . Surely if yee did say so , yee sayd a great matter , for they be men & much more subiect to affections there yee be . But I shal be bould after my manner totel my minde herein aswell as in other things , I take all these matters that be now a dayes in controuersie How this scisine might be ●…emedied . to be of one of these sortes , that is either touching the profits and emolumentes of the Prelates & Mynisters of the church or touching pointes of religion . As touching those articles that concerne religion , I would wishe that they had onely the discuscion thereof , which ought and haue vsed alwayes to haue the iudgment of the same , & as touching the articles that concerne the profits of Ecclesiasticall persons , I would haue these left to the discuscion of the seculer powers , because it concerneth seculer thinges onely , where no man neede mistrust . But that the Maiestrates will prouide an honorable liuing for that kinde of men that serueth so honorable a roume as the ministration of Gods holy word and his Sacraments . Farthermore I woulde wi●…he in thinges touching the byshop of Rome & his iurisoi●…tion , that he should be set a part & some other iudifferent per●…ons chosen , by christian Princes to direct or be Presidentes in the The Bishop 〈◊〉 Rome is no indifferent man . Counsayle while his matter is in handlinge , ( if it please Christian Princes to holde a counsayle with that ●…hare of Babylon ) for no man is m●…ete to be a Iudge in his own cause : here I haue but briefly touched the summes of things after my simple phantasie , referringe the alowing or reiecting of all our some of them to your better iudgement .

Knight .

I am sorry that it is so late that we must needes depart nowe .

Marchaunt . Husband . & Capper .

And so bee wee in good fayth : but wee trust ere you departe the towne to haue some communication wyth you agayne .

Doctor .

I will bee glad if I tarry in the towne . But as yet truly I knowe not whether I shall remayne here beyond too morrow morning , which if I do ( in any thing that my simple iudgement will reach vnto you ) you shall heare my farther opinion , in the meane time I pray you so to thinke of mee as of one , that if I haue spoken any thing which may bee preiudiciall to the common weale any way , I am ready to reuoke it , and to yeelde to the iudgement of any other man , that can shew how all these griefes or the more part of them may bee remedied by any other better meanes , for I know of many a thowsande in this lande , I may worst speake in such a wayghty matter . And so heere for this presente I take my leaue of you all .

Knight .

And thus wee departed for that time : but on the morrowe when I knewe maister Doctor was gone out of the towne , I thought not meete this communication should bee lost , but remembred at the least in mine owne priuate booke , to the intent as oportunity shoulde serue , I might brynge forth some of his Reasons in places where they might eyther take place , or be aunswered otherwise then I could . And therefore I haue noted the sayd communication briefly of this sorte as you see .

FINIS .

IMPRINTED at London in Fleetstreate , neere vnto Saincte Dunstones Church , by Thomas Marshe .

1581.

Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
Notes for div A12827-e220
Notes for div A12827-e1620