A CHALLENGE CONCERNING the Romish Church , her doctrine & practises , PVBLISHED FIRST AGAINST ROB. PARSONS , and now againe reuiewed , enlarged , and fortified , and directed to him , to Frier GARNET , to the Archpriest BLACKEWELL and all their adhaerents ,

By MATTH. SVTCLIFFE .

THEREVNTO ALSO IS ANNEXED an answere vnto certeine vaine , and friuolous exceptions , taken to his former challenge , and to a certeine worthlesse Pamphlet lately set out by some poore disciple of Antichrist , and entituled , A detection of diuers notable vntrueths , contradictions , corruptions , and falsifications gathered out of M. Sutcliffes new Challenge , &c.

AT LONDON Printed by Arnold Hatfield . 1602.

THe publike affaires of this State , right honourable , depending so much upon your counsell and direction , I should not onely wrong you , but others also , and forget my selfe , if I should either holde you with any long discourse , or importune you with the hearing of a priuate quarrell betwixt me and a certeine base and vnworthy aduersarie , whose pleasure is to contend with me about certeine small quirks and questions . It may also seeme a matter vnwoorthie your place and person , to offer vnto you a small treatise concerning so small trifles , the aduersaries whole discourse , which I answere , being spent about certeine pretended vntrueths and falsifications , wherewith he would gladly charge me , if he could . Yet forasmuch as this controuersie grew first out of a challenge made by me some two yeeres since to Robert Parsons , a man , rather for his hatred to the State , and treacherie against his Souereigne , than for learning , vertue , or pietie , knowen to many : and seeing the author of this quarrell now hath enforced me to discusse some points both of Religion , and State , not vnprofitable to be well vnderstood ; I haue made bolde to present this treatise ensuing , that conteineth not onely my former challenge , but also an answere to my aduersaries friuolous obiections , to your Honors hands .

Finally where he thinketh to triumpth most gloriously and to leade my brother Willet , and me both captiues and fast chained at the taile of his chariot , there he doth most pitifully disgrace himselfe , and free vs , and marre all that he medleth withall .

For first speaking of falsifications , he compareth them to Christ , and such mens incredulity , as will not beleeue him , he compareth to the incredulity of Thomas , that would not beleeue Christes resurrection , before he saw and felt manifest signes of it . the sentences alledged out of fathers and other authors , saith c c Praes. fol. 5. he , be so mangled and maimed &c. as no protestant , I am sure will beleeue , vntill feeling and seeing with Saint Thomas convince his incredulity . is not this a braue gallant then , trow you , that compareth trueth to falshood , the feeling of Christ to the feeling of falsifications ?

Secondly where the maine controuersy betwixt me and Robert Parsons in my challenge , is concerning the church of Rome , and where this blinde baiard might see , that I haue alledged diuers strong reasons to prooue , that the congregation of Romanistes under the pope and cardinalls , is not the true church of Christ , there , all this notwithstanding , my adversarie smoothly dissembleth the matter , and taketh that as granted , which he poore fellow can neuer prooue , and saith , that my brother Willet , d d Fol. 1. praef. and I imploy our forces in assaulting the impregnable sort of gods church , and battring that rocke , against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile . as if the congregation of the malignant , and wicked rable of antichrist could be the true church of Christ , or as if the gates of hell had not long since prevailed against the pope and church of Rome . our aduersary therefore taking this for granted , that is the controuersy , if without controversy I haue not demonstrated , that the church of Rome is not the true church , sheweth , that he is pregnant with folly , of which he will not be deliuered before he die , & that his face is as hard as the rocke , of which he talketh .

Thirdly he calleth popish religion Catholicke , and affirmeth f f Fol. 2. praef. it was planted here by Gregory the great , who by succession receiued it from Peter , &c , and that it was alwaies visible since Christ bearing still saile in the tempests of all persecutions . but he should doe well , to shew how true religion can be visible . for our saviour Christ saith , g g Iohn 4. that true worshipers worship God in spirit and truth . but spirituall worship and true internall deuotion is not so easily seene . unlesse therefore our adversary suppose popish religion to consist in the popes mitre , and in coules of monkes , and such like externall matters ; he shal hardly proue religion to be visible . Againe , he doth greatly wrong the popish cause , if he affirme popish religion to have bene planted here in England by Gregory , and be not able to answer my challenge , and to demonstrate those novelties , and late receiued fancies , which I have mentioned , either to haue beene taught by Gregory , or at the least by his disciples to haue beene planted here in England . Furthermore , seeing in my challenge I doe prooue , that popish religion is not catholike , and giue for iustification of that point notable instances , such as our aduersary shall not be able to answer ; is it not notorious impudency , to take this , as a matter either prooued , or confessed , and slily to call haeresie catholike religion ? finally , I must entreat some plaine dealing papist to admonish this detector , or rather detractor of ours , not to say , that Gregory receiued the popish religion , that now is mainteined by the pope of Rome , and was first established in the conuenticle of Trent , from Peter ; or that all , that is taught in Gregories dialogues , or epistles came from Peter ; or that the Romish church , that now is visible in the pope , cardinals , monkes , and swarmes of friers , and in Romish ceremonies , hath borne saile in the tempests of all persecutions . for it is the pope , and his bloody inquisitors , that do persecute others , and are not persecuted . and if this be a qu●…ty of the church , to beare saile in tempests of persecutions , certes the pope and his retinue cannot be the true church , that for many hundred yeeres have lived in all pompe , iolitie , and pleasure . but if the Romish church be so well able to beare saile in tempests , it were much to be wished , that the pope and his cardinals would saile to the Indiaes , where we might heare no more of them , and that they would take our aduersary with them , who percase would prooue a better swabber , then a disputer .

Fourthly , In the beginning of his Praeface , he saith , he will present to his readers view a representation , or liuely paterne of a conference , that is , notable vntrueths and falsifications , &c. and these also he auoucheth he will gather out of master Willets , and my writings . wherein I would pray all moderate papists to consider with indifferency this fond speech of this most miserable popish creature and proctor . he calleth notable untrueths and falsifications a paterne of such a conference , as he desireth . If then he desire a conference , he must needs desire vntrueths and falsifications , if his words haue any sence . I know , he hopeth to picke them out of our writings . but if he finde any , they must be such , as are vttered by himselfe , and his conforts , and not by vs . in the meane while his fellowes are sory to see him speake so foolishly of conferences , vntrueths , and falsifications .

Fiftly , He e e Fol. 1. praef. talketh also verie idelly of backe dores , and deceitfull entries , such as Daniel detected in Bels idolatrous priests . which , if I did not know the mans great simplicity , I would haue imagined to haue beene foisted into his Praeface by some backe friend to popish religion , to the great disgrace of Romish priests , that by backe dores , and deceitfull entries play many lewd parts with their nonnes in Spaine and Italy , and with recusants wiues , maides , and daughters , where they are lodged and interteined in England , as shall be prooved by particulars , if any 〈◊〉 to aske me the question . These also doe worship idoles as brutishly as the f f Daniel 14. in the Latin translation . Babylonians did Bel , and set vp the images of saint Anthony , and saint Dominicke and other saints vpon altars , as the Babylonians did their god Bel. finally they burne incense to their idoles , and crouch to them , and offer sacrifices before them , as the idolatrous priests did before Bel. There resteth therefore nothing to make them all like to Bels priests , but , now their fraudes and cousinages and idolatries and impieties are discouered , that some zelous prince would doe with the popish priests of Baal in England and other places , as the king of Babylon did with the priests of Bel in his country . and that would make an end both of the whole controuersy , and of this idle fellowes brabling .

6 Likewise under the title of his booke hee setteth downe this verse . g g Hierom 14. falsely saieth the Lord doe the prophets prophesie in my name . I haue not sent them , nor commanded them , nor spoken to them . they prophesie unto you a lying vision , and diuination , and fraud , and the deceipt of there owne heart . whereby it seemeth he was hired , to speake shame and reproch of his owne most lewd companions , comming directly from antichrist , and not from Christ ; of the church of Rome , that in liew of Gods word readeth fables and lying legends ; and of the pope , that in his lying decretales brocheth the deceits of his owne heart , neither can this prophesie be expounded of any so fitly , as of the false priests of Baal , that come with faculties from the pope without any one word of authority , or lawful mission from God ; and that prophesie lying visions of the restoring of the idolatrous religion of papists , and preach the fancies and deceits of there owne hearts , out of their masters conie●turall and false dictates . I know he aimeth at vs . but hauing chosen this sentence for an ornament of the front of his lying pamphlet , he must be content to take it to himselfe , and must for any helpe he shall haue of vs , necessarily be forced to apply it to his friends , where it is best deserued .

7 Talking of suposed falsifications he saith , three things make a falsary : first changing of the trueth into falshood , secondly craft and malice , and lastly domage or hurt . and to proue his words true , he alledgeth the names of Hostiensis and Panormitan : two ancient canonistes . but vnlesse he acquit himselfe the better , in talking of falsification it will be proued , that he hath falsely alledged these two authors . no man certes euer talked more simply of falsity , and falsaries , then this falsary . for , not either change of trueth into falshood , is falsity , no albeit it be craftily done , & with detriment to some person ( for then should euery malicious and hurtfull liar be a falsary also ; and the authours and approuers of the Romish legends and breuiaries should also be notorious falsaries , hauing told many grosse malicious lies to the great slander and hurt of religion ) nor hath our aduersary rightly defined a falsary . for a falsary is he , that in writings addeth or detracteth , or altereth any thing fraudulently , as appeareth by the glosse in c. in memoriam . dist. 19. and as the Romanistes shew themselves to be by their expurgatory indexes . but saith our detractor in the margent , in the french copy printed by Hierome Verdussen it is so . but this is contrary to the text . beside that , we are no more ro beleeue the print of Hierome Verdussen , then of Iulian Greenesleue . if our aduersary will make such crakes , he must bring vs better authours then Hierome Verdussen , or the popish reporter of the conference betwixt M. Plesu , and Eureux . is it then likely , that our aduersary should conuince vs of falsification , that albeit himsefe committeth many grosse falsifications , yet knoweth not what this word meaneth ? which may also appeare in this , that he chargeth me with falsification in the first and second place noted page . 47. & 51. where I doe not so much as alledge any writing , or any mans words , but onely quote Augustin and Epiphanius in the margent , to shew that my assertion may be proued out of their writings .

8 His metaphors , and profound allegoricall speeches he vseth to draw from womens rocks . as though saith he , he had not towe inough to his rocke . which sheweth that this companion is better seene in womens rockes and frockes , then in any point of diuinity . beware therefore you of the cacolicke crew , that such gallants come not neere your wiues , daughters , nor maids , that they play not with you a tricke of their cacolicke religion , if you beleeue not me , beleeue Palingenius , that would haue such mates excluded out of mens houses , that meane to keepe their women chast .

9 And although this is the mans great simplicity and weaknesse ; yet would he needs incounter at one time M. Willet , and me both together . nay , as if we were nothing in this giants hands , with great arrogancy he setteth also vpon M. Thomas Bell , a man while he was yet a popish priest , among them accounted the most learned , sufficient and graue man among their company , and now well knowen by his learned workes not answerable , at the least not answered , to haue much profited since . but what is it , that our wise aduersary obiecteth , that he should cry out so loud against Master Bell ? what is the Gordian knot , that he supposeth to be insoluble ? forsooth , because he saith , that the bishops of Rome , vntill the daies of Saint Augustine , and long after , were very godly men , and taught the same doctrine , that Saint Peter had done before them : and yet affirmeth also , that pope Syricius was seduced by Sathan , published wicked doctrine & taught the flat doctrine of the divel ; & that pope Sozimus brought in superstition , and falsified the decrees of the Nicene councell . so to mainteine the vsurped primacie of the Church of Rome . as if M. Belles propositions might not well stand together . for he saith not , that all the bishops of Rome were good and godly men , and taught true doctrine vntill S. Augustines time ; but speaketh indefinitly of the bishops of Rome without adding , all ; which maner of speech in materia contingenti , is not to be taken absolutely and vniuersally , but for the most part . and so no doubt saint Augustine speaking of the bishops of Rome vnderstood it , knowing that Marcelline sacrificed to idoles , and that Liberius was an Arrian . and we may say also , that the apostles of Christ were good men , although Judas was a traitor , and lanterne bearer to the Iewes , as some popish writers say , that betraied Christ , and much of the nature and condition of this detectour of falsifications , and detractor from honest men , and a very lanterner of Antichrist , and a traitour to his countrey . let him therefore beware he be not taken passing through backe dores , like the idolatrous priests of Bel , and so for his gordian knot , be taken tied in a Tyburne knot .

10 I need not say much of our adversaries forme of writing , or frame of sentences . for it appeereth euery where , that he did not know the difference of pneuma , and periodus ; nor could distinguish betwixt colons and periodes , commaes and colons . his whole discourse is liker to nothing that I can imagine , then to the way betweene Chard and Honiton in the west countrey , that is , rude and rugged , vp hill and downe hill , and very vnequall . but to let that passe , yet may I not passe in silence , that a a Praefat. fol. 1. speaking of the great commanders and princely pilots , that sit at the sterne of the common wealth , he seemeth to communicate her Maiesties souereigne authority to inferior persons , and doth not once vouchsafe to acknowledge her princely power , or to name her among the governors of this state . and yet such disloiall traitors , that acknowledge the popes supreme authoritie , and deny her Maiesties power , as being excommunicate by the popes scuruinesse , ( our fellow percase would say holinesse ) are not sought out , nor brought to such a triall , as their offences deserue .

By this therefore it may appeare , that , as our aduersary hath no ability to disproue any point of religion , which we hold , so he hath vtterly shamed his consorts , and the crew of papists , that hitherto haue made great brags of this their champion , & of his inuincible arguments , all hard & knotty , like the haft of a dougeon dagger . he hath also vtterly shamed himself in medling with these matters , being a man not read , nor any way fit to discourse , or handle matter of controuersy : the which , that it may further appere , I purpose , god willing , not only to iustify my former chalenge , which this poore menowe would nibble at , but also to discharge my selfe honestly of all those vntruthes and falsifications , which the detractor maliciously goeth about to charge vpon me . Wherein , that I may proceed more formally , & not onely skin this dead dog , whose ouerthrow shall helpe vs nothing , but handle somewhat else , that may make for the aduantage of true religion , and the instruction of the ignorant ; The order and chiefe propositions , & chapters of the discourse ensuing . I wil , God willing , declare , first that the church of Rome that now is , and which embraceth the doctrine of the pope and conuenticle of Trent , is not the true church of Christ Iesus . and secondly , that the doctrines and traditions of the Romish church , which the church of England refuseth , are meere nouelties and late deuised fancies , for the most part . thirdly , that the papists are no true catholikes , nor hold the catholike faith , and that it is a great wrong offred to Christes church to call them catholikes , vnlesse it be , as we call dead carcases , men . fourthly , that papists mainteine many both old & new haresies and points of doctrine contrary to the word of God , and to the catholike faith . fifthly , that they are idolaters . finally , that such as haue died in the popes quarrell in England were vnnaturall traitors , and no true martyrs , and that such priests also as come from Rome with commission and faculties from the pope , are traitors and enemies to their prince and countrey , and so to be reputed and taken , and not otherwise . All which points , one or two excepted , I handled in my last challenge , this challenge thus iustified , I shall God willing presently encountre our detractor , and answer first his obiections concerning vntruthes : secondly his quarrels concerning supposed falsifications : thirdly his vaine & childish obseruations . and to shew the vanitie of our aduersaries pleading , and how much the papists are to shunne all conferences , and disputes concerning lies , and falsifications ; I will also for further euidence against them set down , first certeine notorious lies , and forgeries committed by the popes and church of Rome : and next such lies and forgeries , as are committed by their principall agents . and heerein first I will declare Bellarmine to be most guiltie in this point . the next place shall conteine Baronius his cardinall leasinges . after them I will note certeine notorious lies and forgeries conteined in the writings of other papists , yea of Parsons himselfe , and of this Momus , in his new nothing , which he calleth a detection of lies and falsifications . finally to answer his obseruations , I will also discourse of such things as in our aduersaries , and their writings seeme woorthy to be obserued . and all this , to let our aduersaries know , that they had more need to defend themselves , then to presse vs ; and to take the beames out of their owne eies rather , then to espie motes in our eies .

As for his railing words , & rustical & vnciuil behauiour , I leave to be censured by the archpriest in his next generall synod : which if he doe not , I will referre him over to be answered by master Kempe vpon the stage . and if he desist not his railing and rusticalitie either vpon the archpriests admonition , or master Kempes censure ; I assure him , I will set a fellow to answer him , that shall so currie him and his consorts the papists , and that shall in such sort tippe vp their vilanies , that the whole fraternitie of asses shall curse him for braying so vnciuilly . I hope also , that some odde priest or other , out of his grammer dictates will admonish him , to looke better to his grammer rules , and tell him , that he hath falsified a verse out of Horace , and made a grosse fault in it . This is the onely verse in the booke . for where Horace saith , quid dignum tanto feret hic pro missor hiatu : our wise b b Pag. 4. aduersarie hath , quid dignum tanto proferet promissor hiatu : both altering his authors words , and committing a fault in the verse , and marring the sence .

His reprochfull termes omitted , and his small errors pardoned , there is nothing in his pamphlet , which I haue not answered , and , I hope in that sort , that he shall not be able to take iust exception against any thing I haue said or done . it may be , that he will be offended , for that not being able to speake by letters , and finding his name to be E. O. I doe name the baby somtime detector , or detractor , somtime ectaticall owliglasse . I haue great reason to doe it . for I doe perceiue , that he is a desciple of Robert Parsons , who in his pamphlet of reasons , for not going to church , calleth himselfe Iohn Howlet . what then can be more consonant , then that his disciple , that goeth about to imitate him in his pride , railing , and phrase of speech , though very vnhandsomly , should be called Owliglasse alias Howlyglasse , and ectaticall , that is leapt out of his wit into a little fit of foolery ? if he like not this name , then let him set downe his owne name , and for my part he shall not heare worse then his name , vnlesse his faults deserue it .