Of the church of ●ome .

BEcause the true Church is that people to whom perteyneth * * Rom. ● . ● . the adoption of sonns , and the glorie , and the covenants , & the giving of the Law , and the service ( of God , ) and the promises : it is requisite that we first handle the state of Antichrists church , so shall we the better discerne of the ministerie ; seales of the covenant , and other ordinances of God which the man of syn abuseth , whether they be true or false unto them , in that their synfull abuse .

In my former answer , I layd downe these grounds ; † † Animad●●rs : p. 76. The Antichristian synagogue is by the Holy Ghost called a Beast , Rev. 13. 11. which signifieth a Kingdome , Dan. 7. 23. it is named also a great Citie , Rev. 11. 8. which noteth the largenes of tha tpolitie & kingdome . It cometh up out of the earth , Rev. 13. 11. as being of this world , ( which Christs kingdome that cometh downe from heaven Rev. 21. 2. is not : ) and therefore is called a man of syn , 2 Thes. 2. 3. and a great whore , Rev. 17. 1. whose head is Abaddon or Apollyon , Revel 9. 11. the Destroyer of others , and himself the son of perdition , 2 Thes. 2. 3. and they that follow him are the children of damnation , 2 Thes. 2. 12. This wicked generation warreth against the Lamb Christ , and against the Saincts , , Rev. 17. 14. 6. and 13. 7. blasphemeth Gods name and Tabernacle , and them that dwel in heaven , Rev. 13. 6. that is the true church , whose conversation is heavenly , Phil. 3. 20. Yet doe they all this mischief , under shew of Christian religion : and therefore this Beast , hath hornes like the Lamb Christ , Rev. 13. 11. this whore is arayed with purple & scarlet , guilded with gold , precious stones and pearles , Rev. 17. 4. as if she were the Queen and spouse of Christ , Psal. 45. 9. 13. Ezek. 16. ●0 . — 13. Song . 7. 5. she hath Peace-offrings and Vowes , Prov. 7. 14. ( as if she were devout in Gods service , Psal. 66. 13. ) bread and waters , Prov. 9. 16. 17. ( as ready to refresh the wearie soules . ) Her doctrines , sweet and amiable , lyes spoken in hypocrisie , Prov. 5. 3. 1 Tim. 4. 2. but yet confirmed with signes and miracles , as if they came from heaven , 2 Thes. 2. 9. Rev. 13. 13. 14. her power & efficacie great , prevailing over the many and the mightie , the Kings and Princes of the world , deceiving all nations with her inchantments , Prov. 7. 21. 26. Rev. 17. 2 & 18. 23. and if it were possible , Gods very elect , Math. 24. 24. Her continuance and outward prosperitie is long , Rev. 13. 5. & 18. 7. & 20. 2. 4. her end , miserable , Rev. 18. 19. 21. & 19. 20. 21. consumed with the spirit of the Lords mouth , and abolished with the brightnes of his coming , 2 Thes. 2. 8. And for her destruction , the heavens shall rejoyce , and sing praises to God , Rev. 18. 20. & 19. 1. 2.

The accomplishment of these prophesies , I * * Animad ▪ pag. 77. there shewed to be in the Church of Rome at this day ; confirmed by her own canons and doctors , that set forth her profession and practise . These grounds remayne yet unanswered by mine opposite ; being such as I assure my self neither could he , neither can any soundly refute . Now let us see how farr he yeildeth , and how he opposeth . First † † Christian Plea p. 12● he prayeth all to take knowledge , that his minde and desire in himselfe is to plead against the present estate of that church , and not for it : acknowledging it to be fallen , into most synful and deep defection and apostasie , and so to be a notorious harlot and idolatress : which all the people of God ought to forsake , and to witnes the trueth there against , even vnto death .

How well this his acknowledgement agreeth with his plea in the residue of his book ; shall appeare in the discussing of the reasons after folowing . But what sayth he to the description of Antichrists church , which I before shewed from the scriptures ? He “ “ Chr. pl●● p. 141. sayth , I speak of the church and Synagogue of Antichrist , of the Beast , of the great Citie , of the man of Syn , of the great whore , of Abaddon or Apollyon , the son of perdition &c. wheras I should treat of the Temple of God , wherof Paul speaketh . 2 Thes. 2. Hereupon he chargeth me , † † p. 242. to keep what I could from the point of the question in hand , and therefore also to confound things that differ .

I answer , that the the question was by this mine opposites former “ “ Adverti● ▪ p. 58. 59. graunt , about the church of Rome , whether it were the church of God or no. Now when at first I shew from the scriptures , what maner of Church that Romane church is , in Gods account : how could he charge me to keep from the point of the question ? 2ly . the place of th' Apostle being alleaged * * Advertis ▪ p. 5● 59 by mine opposite for a proof that the church wherein Antichrist sitteth , is the Church of God ; I come immediately after † † Animad ▪ p. 77. 78. &c. to scan that scripture : and yet he challengeth me for keeping from the point ; wheras all men of judgement may see it was needful to know what God foretold of that church throughout the scriptures , that so we might understand in what sense Antichrist is sayd to sit in the Temple of God , 2 Thes. 2. For seing the Temple of God , is a figurative phrase , taken from the shadowes of the Law : it is not wisedome in us , to expound a parabolical speech contrary to the plaine scriptures & grounds of Christian religion ; but we must understand it according to them . Wherefore , there being no other answer made to the description aforesayd : it standeth in force to prove that the church of Rome , is not the true Church of Christ .

So for the accomplishment of the prophesies , wheras I † † ●nimad . shewed from the Papists own writings of their church , how fitly it agreeth with Antichrists synagogue foretold of by God : mine opposite answereth * * ●●s . ple● 〈◊〉 . I tell them of a Church , such as Bellarmine and others describe , one part wherof lives on earth , an other under the earth , and a third part in heaven &c. Wheras our question is of the Temple of God , wherof Paul speaketh , 2. Thes. 2. 4. and of the court and holy citie wherof Iohn speaketh Rev. 11. 2. Thus neyther the Prophesies of God , nor the complement of them shewed by the men themselves whom the prophesies concerne , may be brought to clear the controversie : but mine opposite will insist upon dark and figurative speeches ; that men may be the more easily deluded . For how shall we prove against Papists , that the Pope is Antichrist ; if we may not alleage the Popes owne doctrines and practises , which are contrary to Christ ? Yea how shall we judge of any church , but by their owne Confessions published , and comparing them with the scripures ? Wherefore the profession of Papists concerning their church , is a strong argument wherby they may be discovered to be none of Christs : & even the Cretian lyars testimonie against themselves , is true , as the Apostle noteth , Tit. 1. 12. 13.

An Answer to the arguments brought for the church of Rome .

MIne opposite pleadeth thus ; 1. First , J take an argument from the baptisme had in the churches aforesayd , [ the Apostate churches of Christians ▪ ] thus . The Baptisme had in the church of Rome , is the Lords baptisme , the signe and seale of his covenant , the ordinance of God had in that church from the Apostles times ( before Antichrist there arose ) Rom. 6. 2. 3. and so is true baptisme , which is from heaven and not of men : that one baptisme which perteyneth to the bodie of Christ , Eph. 4. 4. 5. which the Lord hath given to his church , and not man &c. Therfore the church of Rome , is the church of God , and under his covenant &c.

Answ. Here , let it first be observed , whether mine opposite pleadeth against the present estate of that church , as before he pretended . For if they be under Gods covenant , & have it sealed unto them from heaven , by that one true baptisme , then are they in the state of grace and of salvation : which is the very thing that all Papists at this day doe plead for . Concerning his Argument , I deny , that the baptisme had in all Apostate churches of Christians and particularly in the church of Rome , is the Lords true baptisme , or the signe and seale of his covenant of grace unto them . Here mine opposite referreth me to an other place of his book , for proof of the trueth of their Baptisme : wherto I will make answer anone , in their place . And now that my denyal may not be so bare as is his assertion here : I will insist upon the two scriptures which he citeth ▪ and disprove their baptisme .

In Rom. 6. 2. 3. 4. the Apostle sayth ; How shall we that are dead to syn , live any longer therin ? Know ye not that so many of us as are baptised into Christ Iesus , were baptised into his death ? Therfore we are buried with him by baptisme into death ; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead , by the glorie of the Father , even so we also should walk ●n n●wnes of life . Here first the Apostle speaketh of such as are dead to syn ; that is mortified Christians , which live not in syn , neyther * * vers. 12. reigneth it in them , but they are † † v. 7. freed ( or justified ) from syn ; and are v. 11. alive unto God . But Antichristians ( such as are the professant members of the church of Rome , ) are not dead unto , or freed from syn : for they are the subjects of the † † 2 Thes. 2. 3. Man of syn , the worshipers of the Beast , for whom is prepared the wine of the wrath of God , Revel. 14. 9. 10. They are of that church , which by my opposites confession a little before ) is fallen into most synfull and deep apostasie , & is a notorious ●arlot and idolatress , which all the people of God ought to forsake : Wherefore they are rather to be counted dead in synns ( as th' Apostle speaketh of the Gentiles , Ephes. 2. 1. ) and that they are in deed dead , and not partakers of the first resurrection ; is evident by Revel. 20. 4. 5. 6. in that they are the worshipers of the Beast , and murderers of the witnesses of Iesus . Wherfore , the doctrine of Baptisme in Rom. 6. is farr from proving the Antichristians or other heretical and apostate churches , to have the true baptisme of Christ , or seale of his covenant : but his servants they are to whom they obey , even of syn unto death , Rom. 6. 16.

The other scripture is Ephe. 4. 4. 5. There is one body and one spirit , even as ye are called unto one hope of your calling : one Lord , one faith , one baptisme . By which words it appeareth , that such as have the One baptisme , have also one and the same faith , Lord , hope , spirit , and body : which to affirme of the Antichristian church of Rome , and of all other heretical and Apostate churches that professe Christ , is very impious . And most firme arguments there are from the Apostles words to the contrary of that which this man pleadeth for . As , The Romish and other heretical churches have not the one & same faith with the true Churches of Christ ; witness , their blasphemous doctrines published by the Council of Trent , and in other books ; and the Apostles prophesie , that they are departed from the faith , 1 Tim. 4. 1. &c. therfore they have not the one Baptisme . They have not one and the same Lord Iesus Christ ; but have Antichrist the Man of syn , for their Lord : therefore they have not the one baptisme . They have not that one hope , nor that one Spirit , neyther are they one bodie with the true Christian churches : therfore they have not that one baptisme . These things are partly prooved before in the description which I set downe of Antichrists church : they are also acknowledged of all Christian churches , which disclaim the unitie with the Antichristians in their faith , spirit , & bodie . And the scriptures most abundantly disclaime this feighned unitie : as 2 Cor. 6. 12. what concord hath Christ with Belial ? meaning , none at all . And Belial is there put for Antichrist and his retinue , as in 2 Sam. 23. 6. & 22. 5. The Apostle sheweth , that the Antichristians have from God , strong delusions , to beleeve lyes unto their damnation , 2 Thes. 2. 11. 12. That they are departed from the faith , doe give heed to ●educing spirits , and doctrines of Divils , speaking lyes in hypocrisie , &c. ● Tim. 4. 1. 2. That the false teachers ( among Christians ) privily bring in damnable heresies , even denying the Lord that bought them , and bring upon themselves swift destruction , 2 Pet. 2. 1. That the Beast ( which is the * * Dan. 7. 23. kingdome of Antichrist , ) and the false prophet ( his ministers ) and all that worship him , or take his mark ; shal be tormented in fyre and brimstone for ever and ever , Rev. 20. 10. &c. & 14. 9. 10. And shall we now say , that these miserable creatures , have one Spirit , hope , Lord , faith and baptisme with the saincts and true Churches of Christ ? My soule , come not thou into their secret , that so affirme .

The second argument for such churches , is ; † † Chr. plea ● . 121. If they be not under II. the covenant of God , but divorced from the Lord &c: then is there no salvation for any in those churches .

Answ. I deny the consequence . For then , after Israel was divorced from the Lord , ( as is testified in in Ier. 3. 8. ) there was no salvation for any among them : which I know mine opposite himself would not say .

Objection . Why , * * Ibidem . out of the covenant of God , there is no salvation .

Answ. I grant it . But though the church be not under the covenant of God , but without it , or divorced from him , yet some parlicular persons in that church , may through Gods grace be in his covenant . For as every true church is in the covenant of God , yet some hypocrites and reprobates are in the same , which perish for ever : so every false church is out of the covenant ; yet some truly faithful and elect may be therein , which by the covenant of grace may be saved . Example in Rahab the Canaanitess , the church whereof shee was , had not the covenant of grace in Christ : yet she having heard of Gods works towards Israel , beleeved in God , and was saved ; and before she joyned her self to the church of Israel , shee shewed the fruits of true and living faith , wherby shee was justified , & is put in the catalogue of the Saincts , Jos. 2. 1. 9. 10. &c. Heb. 11. 31. 39. Jam. 2. 25. 26. The like is to be thought of the other nations , farr off from God , who by some meanes hearing of his name and trueth , might imbrace the faith unto salvation , though the churches wherof they stood members were false and idolatrous , 1 King . 8. 41. 42. 43. So where mine oppositē * * Ibid. p. 128 bringeth scriptures to prove , that they which are not in the covenant of God and Christ , cannot be saved : he proveth that which is not denyed : but this he should have proved , if he could ; that if a church be false , and not under the covenant ; none in that church can by any meanes come unto the faith and covenant of Christ ; for this I deny . And his argument if it had been sound , should have been this . If Antichristian churches be not under the covenant of God , but divorced from the Lord ; then is there no salvation for any that are under the covenant of that church , and in no other covenant : and so I would have granted his argument ; as confirmed by the Holy ghost , that all such are in the state of damnation , 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. Rev. 14. 9. 10.

Here to help the church of Antichrist into the covenant of Christ , he † † Chr. plea p. 122. bringeth in the profession of the Iesuites of Rhemes , which ( as he sayth ) ●old Rhemes ●nno● . on 1 Tim. 2. ● . Christ by nature to be truely both God and man , to be the one eternal Priest and Redeemer , which by his sacrifice and death upon the cross , hath reconciled in to God , and payd his blood , as a f●ll and sufficient ransome for all our synns , &c. againe to be the singular advocate and patron of mankinde , that by himself alone , and by his owne merit● procureth all grace and mercie to mankinde . &c.

I answer , First for the persons that set downe this profession they are by the testimony of God that false prophet , which with the Beast shal be tormented for ever & ever , Rev. 20. 10. or at least , they are those uncleane spirits which come out of the mouth of the Beast & of the False prophet , for they are the spirits of Divils , working miracles , which goe forth unto the Kings of the earth , and of the whole world , to gather them to the battel of that great day of God almighty , Rev. 16. 13. 14. And this is apparant by that corrupt Testament and blasphemous notes and interpretations upon it , which they there set forth to the world , in sted of the true Christian and catholik faith . Moreover they are a part of the popish hierarchie which mine opposite after maketh to be the Man of syn , the son of perdition , and the Beast , which hee will not indure to heare that they should be accounted the church , or maried to Christ : yet here he maketh them the preachers of the doctrine of salvation . Secondly for the Profession which they there make , if it were sound and good , yet denying it againe in their works , it nothing availeth them : for of such it is written , They professe that they know God , but in works they deny him , being abominable and disobedient , and unto every good work reprobate ; Tit. 1. 16. But what shal we say , if they deny the trueth of the doctrine of Christ , not in work onely , but even in word and profession ? First then , ( to omitt their rayling against Calvin about the Godhead of Christ being of himself , in their Annot. on John 1. sect. 3. ) concerning Christs manhood , and the trueth of his humane nature , how ever they acknowledge him to have taken flesh of the virgin ; yet beleeve they , ( and burne to ashes such as wil not beleeve it , ) that the bread in the sacrament is transsubstantiated into the very body of Christ ; so they have a Christ made of a wafer cake ; a Christ whose whole bodie is in an hundred thousand places and moe at once , even in all places of the world , whersoever Masse is sayd by a Preist : so he must have a fanatical bodie , which can neyther be seen , felt , tasted or by any sense of man perceived as an humane bodie : & this breaden Christ they worship in that their idolatrous sacrament , and doe eat him really & properly with their mouthes . And doe these now beleeve Christs humane nature aright ; when as by the plain scripture we are taught , that the heaven must receive him , until the times of restitution of all things , Act. 3. 21.

As for his office of Mediatorship ; wheras they profess him to be the singular Advocate and patron of mankinde ; by singular they mean not the onely Advocate or mediator , as the scripture teacheth , ● Tim. 2. 5. 1 Joh. 2. 1. but a speciall or chief mediatour : for they have innumerable other advocates and mediators , as the heathens of old , had one chief God , and many inferiour gods . So the same Rhemists gloss on 1 Tim. 2. telleth us , that though Christ be the onely singular Advocate and patron &c. yet this letteth not but there may be other inferiour mediators , though not in that singular sense : And how they beleeve in their Queen of heaven , let this one song ( amongst many other ) to the virgin Marie witness , when they sing O regina poli , mater gratissima prosi : Spernere me noli , me commendo tibi soli . i. O queen of heaven &c. J commend me to thee onely .

As for the redemption , the full and sufficient ransome for all our synns , payed by his blood , which they would seem to hold : it is with fraud and injurie to Christs blood , which by their distinction ) satisfied for the syn , but not for the punishment ; and therefore they have feighned a purgatorie fyre , wherein mens soules doe beare the punishment of their owne venial synns : Concil. Trid-sess. 6. can . 30. Bellarm. de Parg. c. 1. From which also they can redeem themselves by money , given to Antichrists priests that sacrifice for the synns of the living and the dead . And whereas God teacheth us , that we are justified freely by his grace , through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ ; Rom. 3. 24. and that we are not justified by the works of the Law , but by the faith of Jesus Christ , Gal. 2. 16. the Antichristians teach us a justification by faith and works togither ; by Christs merits , Saints and Popes merits , & their owne ; and these works by which they beleeve to be saved in part , are very many of them wicked works of their owne devisings , as going on pilgrimage , giving of their goods to mainteyne Antichrists clergie , and idolatrie , and other like works of the Divil . And of their owne idols , as of an Agnus Dei made of waxe , they beleeve and profess , * * Ceremon . Rom. l. 1. 〈◊〉 . 7. c. De consecrat . agn . Dei . Omne malignum peccatum frangit , ut Christi sanguis , et angit . Jt breaketh all wicked syn , as the blood of Christ doeth . Thus blasphemously they tread Christs blood under their feet .

Finally , the faith which they profess to have in Christ , what is it ? Any trust or confidence such as the faithful have in Christ to be their saviour , as the Apostle teacheth , in Rom. 8. 33. ● . 39. & Gal. 2. 20. Hebr. 3 6. Ephe. 3. 12. Nay , this confidence they reject as a presumption ; and their faith , ( which is without confidence ) being but an assent to the trueth of Gods promises ; & not a confidence of their justification in particular : is such a faith as the Divils * * Iam. 2. 19. have , who know and assent to the trueth of Gods promises unto mankinde . See Bellarm. de Iustific . l. 1. c. 5. 6. &c. Now if this painted face of the Romish Iezebel , be so fowle and uglie , being compared with the beawtie of Christs true spouse : what may wee think is the faith of that ignorant seduced multitude of Antichristians , who professing Christ in name , looke for salvation by the wicked workes which the Pope hath learned them , and by the works of the Law of God , and beleefe in Christ , and their owne sufferings , confusedly togither ; and yet neyther know Christ , nor what true saving faith in him doth meane .

Object . Who dare say but that God by this faith in Christ , saveth some of them , who doe thus beleeve in simplicitie &c.

Answ. And who dare say , but that God , notwithstanding this faith professed by the Iesuites as before , may justly damne them , though they thus beleeve in simplicitie ' Seing even in these things which they profess , they corrupt themselves with horrible idolatries , having many false Gods , and false Christs in whom they also trust , and dayly pray unto them , as did the heathens . And , seing this their faith , considered in the best , is no true saving faith ; but as themselves say , The faith which truely justifieth , is not that wherby they beleeve that God is merciful unto them ; but that wherby they beleeve with the whole hart without any doubting , that Jesus is the Christ , and the son of God . Bellarm. de Iustific . l. 1. c. 8. Such a faith appeareth to have been in the Divils , as it is written And Divils also came out of many , crying out and saying , Thou art Christ , the son of God , Luke 4. 41. But that God giveth some in that church a sounder faith , and saveth them of the riches of his grace ; I never denyed or doubted of .

Object . 2. Of this minde concerning them , J have been a long time ; see Answ. to Mr. Jak . p. 13. 47. &c.

Answ. But then and there , this distinction was rightly put , of , some particular men , considered a part from their constitution ; that is , from their church estate : now , that church and all other Apostate churches professing Christs name , are generally pleaded for , to be in the state of grace , having the one true baptisme &c. which is to justifie the open wicked , and count Christs enemies blessed .

Object . 3. Some of them dye Martyrs in defense of the Christian faith , ( acknowledging Iesus to be the Christ the son of God . ) against Turks , &c.

Answ. If it be in defense of the Christian faith , it is well : but if acknowledging Iesus to be the Christ , they dye also in defense of the Antichristian faith professed by that church , and for the idolatrie of the same , ( which is hatefull to the very Turks : ) then I say with th' Apostle , they may * * 1 Cor. 13. 3. give their body to be burned , and it profit them nothing . Neyther doubt I , but some of the Iewes , have dyed and will dye in defense of the God of Israel as they now profess him from Moses and the Prophets ; rather then yeeld to the heathens . But the extraordinary mercie of God to some in Antichrists church , justifieth no more the estate of that Synagogue of Satan , then his like extraordinary mercie to some of the heathens ( of whom we shall speak anone ) wil justifie the heathens synagogues to be Gods true churches . As for Martyrs , our owne English acts and monuments and other , doe shew that many have given their lives for this , that the church of Rome is not the true church of Christ . Now by mine opposites plea they died not herein for the trueth but for errour : what Martyrs them were they ?

Obj. 4. Many Jndians , Pagans , Jewes are by them converted , and brought to the profession of Christian religion , among whom I doubt not , but the Lord hath and saveth his , even by that knowledge and faith of Christ , which by their preaching among them they are brought unto , &c.

Answ. That many of all nations are converted or perverted unto Antichristianitie by the Papists , there is no doubt , for experience sheweth it , and so it is prophesied , that by Babylons sorceries , all nations should be deceived , Reve. 18. 23. So the heathens of Babylon , Cuth , Hamath &c. were converted by a Samaritan Priest , and taught to feare the Lord the God of Israel : that they feared the Lord , and served their own Gods ; & also , they feared not the Lord , neyther did they after their statutes or after their ordinances , 2 King . 17. 28. 29. 30. 33. 34. If that misceline rable were Gods true church , so are these popish proselytes : if they were not ( as I never heard any affirme they were , ) neyther are these . And what have our learned men of England answered to this old popish argument ? J deny ( sayth Dr. Fulk ) that ever the popish church converted any to the true faith . Answer to a counterf . Catholik art . 1. Yea what say the Papists themselves , of this point ? Hierom Benzo ( in Histor. Indiarum ) sayth , that all the religion the Indians have , is to make the signe of the cross , & to heare a Latine mass , and to perform such like ceremonies . Ioseph a Costa , a Iesuite , in his book De procuranda Judaorum salute , telleth us , † † Lib. 6. c. 3. that the Spanyards have baptised many against their wills . He sayth , “ “ Lib. 1. ch. 14. they are like the Samaritans , that worshiped God and idols both togither : they make ( sayth he ) a feighned shew of Christianitie , they serve not God in deed , neyther beleeve they unto righteousnes . And are not these converts now , a goodly plea for mine opposite to alledge , for proof of a true Christian church ? But he procedeth ,

* * Christian ▪ plea p. 122. Yea and who can say , but that whersoever the name of Christ is preached and called upon , the Lord saveth some &c. seing that Christ is the way , the trueth , and the life , and whosoever beleeveth in him shall not perish , Ioh. 3. 16. 17. &c.

Answ. Where Christ is truely preached , and beleeved , no Christian wil say , but the Lord saveth some : but where Christ is falsly preached and beleeved in , after Antichrists idolatrous manner , none can truly say , that they are a true Christian Church . As for Gods saving some by the doctrine there preached ; it is a thing not for us to dispute of : we are commanded to leave secret things unto God , and to hold us unto things revealed , Deut. 29. 2● . God who brought light out of darknes , can cause the trueth to shine into the harts of his elect , by the corrupt preaching of the Papists ▪ and so I doubt not but he doeth . yet is this no justification of the popish church ; any more then the true preaching of the gospel , which is unto the reprobates the savour † † 2 Cor. 2. 16. of death unto death , is a condemnation of the Christian Church , and true doctrine of the same .

Object . 5. But , * * Chr. plea. pag. 122. Out of the Church there is no salvation , which J suppose themselves wil not deny . And ( that which is more ) the Lords constitutions cease not to be his holy ordinances , though the people that injoy them , should have no benefit therof to salvation .

Answ. Here we have suppositions in sted of proof . His assertion I deny , though he supposed the contrary : for out of the true visible Church ( wherof we dispute ) there may be salvation . Many that are not of any true Church , yea are persecutors of it , and excommunicates out of it , may repent and beleeve in Christ , even at their last houre , and at their death ; and so be saved ; though they neyther have time , place , or means to be joyned to any true visible church on earth . If he speak not of a particular visible church , but of the Vniversal church which is invisible , and comprehendeth all Gods elect : he swerveth from the question , and deceiveth by aequivocation ; for we treat of the visible church of Rome , whether it be Christs true church or no. As for the Vniversal church , which is all over the earth , and from the beginning of the world to the end therof , and conteyneth Gods elect onely : out of it in deed there is no salvation . But what is this to the purpose ? For so a man might reason thus . In the church there are no reprobates , there is no damnation ; for Christ giveth all his sheep eternal life , and they shal never perish , Ioh. 10. 28. But the Popish synagogue , is ( by mine oposites plea ) the church , even the true church of Christ . Therfore in it there are no reprobates , there is no damnation . Here ( I doubt not ) mine opposite would distinguish between the Catholik or universall church in the first proposition , and the particular church of Rome , in the second ; and so deny the argument : & why would he then himself obtrude upon us , such a deceitfull reason ?

The latter part of his speech I grant : but it helpeth him nothing . For the synagogue of Antichrist , is none of Gods constitutions , though every true Christian church is : neyther hath he annexed promise of grace , to his ordinances abused by the man of syn , and his subjects , in that malignant church , but hath threatned the destruction of the deceivers and deceived , 2 Thes. 2. 8. 10. 11. 12.

3. The third * * Chr. plea p. 122. 12● ▪ reason for the church of Rome consisteth of a division of the world into Christians , Iewes , Turks and Pagans ; and of a question , if it be asked , which of these is the Church of God at this day ? should we not answer , the Christians : and among the Christians , comprise the churches aforesayd , for the reasons before specified ?

Answ. The first part of his answer , I yeild unto , that Christians now are Gods church . The second I deny , namely that Antichristians ( such as the Papists be , ) & other heretical and apostate churches , are to be comprised in the number ; save in name onely , for in deed and trueth they are not . His reasons before specified , I have particularly refuted : & so might here end . But further to explaine the trueth , I answer ; that after this general division , we must make an other subdivision , or els we may be deceived . The subdivision is of Christians againe , into true and false , or into Christians and Antichristians which professe Christ in name & deny him in deed . And this I learne of the holy Ghost , who in the Apostles times divided the Iewes into outward , and inward , Rom. 2. 28. 29. and counted these latter onely Iewes : and such as sayd they were Iewes and were not , but did lye , he calleth them the Synagogue of Satan : Revel. 3. 9. Even so , he prophesied of a Beast ( or kingdom ) which should have two hornes like the Lamb ( Christ , and so be called Christians ) but should speak as the Dragon , work wonders , & deceive men that dwell on the earth , &c , Revel. 13. 11. 13. 14. He also foretold of false teachers among Christians , who privily should bring in damnable heresies , even denying the Lord that bought them &c. 2 Pet. 2. 1. If thus we distinguish not between the true Christ and * * M●t. 24. 24. false Christs , between true prophets and false prophets , and so between true churches and false : we may reteyn the name of Christ and Christian churches , and be in deed nothing less . And according to mine opposites manner of plea , an other might reason thus , Of synners in the world , some are † † 2 Pet. 2. 4. 5. Angels , and some are men . If then the question be asked , seing Christ came to save synners , 1 Tim. 1. 15. which of these are redemed and saved by Christ , & are the church of God ? should we not answer men ; and among men also comprise all peoples upon earth , Iewes , Turks Pagans &c. This is the mould of mine Opposers argument ; and as colourably as he pleadeth for Antichrists synagogue to be Christs Church , so others doe plead for universal redemption of all peoples & persons borne into the world ; from Ioh. 1. 9. Rom. 5. 18. and other like scriptures .

4 The * * Chr. plea , p. 123 , fourth reason is from baptisme , a visible signe of Gods visible Church among Christians , as circumcision was among the Iewes &c.

I answer , the baptisme among Antichristians is in deed like their church ; Christs in name , but not in deed and trueth . As for that which he annexeth , of our defending and reteyning that visible baptisme received in the church of Rome ; it foloweth after to be discussed , when we come to treat of their baptisme . In the mean while , let it be observed , that as Circumcision was a signe of the Church of old ; so was sacrificing , both then , and before Circumcision was instituted : and all nations reteyning sacrifice then , as well as Antichrist reteyneth baptisme & the Lords supper now ; it wil also folow by like reason , that all nations were then Gods churches ; which argument shal be prosecuted hereafter . Againe , as the foolish woman calleth passengers to her sweet stollen waters , and pleasant bread of secresies , Prov. 9. 13. 17. so this foolish * * Rev. 17. 18. woman ( the church of Antichrist ) by like stales , allureth the simple unto her : which are no sounder proof that she is Christs true spouse , then the true mans purse in the theefs hand , wil prove the theef to be a true and honest man .

5 The 5 ▪ reason † † Ibidem is from the defection of Iudah and Israel , remayning stil Gods people notwithstanding : therfore also the church of Rome , in like manner .

Answ. Of the first part of this reason , touching the state of the Israelites , we are after to speak in particular : but were it granted , I deny the consequence , it foloweth not , the Antichristian synagogue is so also .

Inst. * * Ibid. pag. 123. 124. The consequence ( sayth he ) is prooved , because these were types of the like state of the Christian churches , recorded for our instruction . 1 Cor. 10. 6. — 11. with Rom. 154. & 2 Tim. 3. 16. 17. 2 Pet. 2. 1. Jude v. 5. 11. Rev. 2. 14. 20. & 11. 2. &c.

Answ. I grant that he sayth , for the Christian churches : but for the Antichristian , it is true in part onely . The synns of Iudah and Israel , are found in Rome : so are the synns of Sodome , Aegypt , Babylon , and heathen Rome ; which by warrant from God , were types also of this Antichristian Babylon , Rev. 11. 8. and 17. 5. From which I may as truly conclude ; Sodome , Aegypt and Babylon of old , were so farr fallen from God , as they were not his churches or peoples : and they were types of this church of Antichrist , and the things written of them , are for our instruction , Rom. 15. 4. Iude v. 7. 2. Pet. 2. 5. 6. Therfore this Antichristian synagogue , is not Christs true church .

Further I answer , that the types which were in Israel , prove not that the things typed are in the same degree of good or evil , neyther more nor less ; as mine opposite would inferr that Antichristians are not now more deep in apostasie then were the Israelites . For types and figures agree in some things , but not in all . Moses , Aaron , David and all other types of Christ were synners : but it were wicked therupon to conclude , that Christ himself was a synner . Moreover Christs Preisthood was figured in Aaron & his sonns : yet did not that Levitical Preisthood fully type out his office , but in part : & a more complete figure of him was in Melchisedek , as th' Apostle sheweth in Heb. 5. and 7. chapters . Accordingly , it wil follow , that Antichrist is answerable to Israels apostasie in part : and yet a more complete figure of him is to be found in the Gentiles . And as Christ excelleth in holynes all that were types of him : so Antichrist exceedeth in wickednes all the types of him ; & therfore hath many sorts of wicked men , to resemble his impietie . Rev. 11. 8. And that his consequence followeth not from the type to the thing typed , that they are both in an equal estate , appeareth further by his own grant ( in pag. 126. ) , where he maketh Antiochus and his captaines &c. a type of the Papacie . Now it is confessed of all , that Antiochus and his companie were Pagans in religion : so by the like reason , the Pope with his captaines and souldjers , must be Pagans also .

6. The 6 reason † † pag. 124. alleaged for them is , that it should be syn for Papists and Apostate Christians , to marie with Pagans , to neglect baptisme , not to sanctifie the Lords day ; as it was in Iudah and Israel to marie with the heathen , to neglect circumcision , to profane the Lords day &c. Dan. 11. 32. with 1. Maccab. 1. 16. 45. 51. 55. and with Mal. 2. 11. Ezr. 9. 1. 2. & 10. 10. Neh. 13. 3. 23. — 27. Hos. 5. 7. & 7. 8. & 8. 12. Amos 8. 5. with 2 Cor. 6 : 14. &c. which should not so be , if they were not the church and people of God , under his covenant , and bound to the observation of his ordinances . For Pagans , and such as perteyn not to the Lords covenant , being not his church and people , are not in their estate bound to these and the like ordinances of the Lord , which he hath given to his church and people . Psal. 147. 19. 20. with Deut. 7. 1. — 11.

Answ. This reason is sundry wayes faultie . 1. Of Pagans he sayth , they are not in their estate bound &c: but Papists and apostate Israelites , he would have them bound , yet mentioneth not their estate : wheras if he speak not of them also in their estate , his argument is false and fraudulent .

2. The scriptures alleaged Psal. 147. & Deut. 7. are by him abused , whiles he restreyneth them to these and the like ordinances , namely , mariage , circumcision , baptisme , and the Sabbath ; understanding by the like ordinances , ( as I suppose ) the Passover and other sacrifices , the Lords supper , &c: whereas the Psalmist speaketh generally of Gods Words , Statutes ( or Ordinances ) and Judgments , Psal. 147. 19. 20. which three , doe comprehend the moral Law , called the * * Exod. 34. 28. Ten Words , the Ordinances of worship and service , and the Iudicials for punishment of malefactors : all these the Prophet sayth , were shewed unto Jsrael , and God dealt not so with any nation . Now to conclude from these words , therfore the nations were not bound to observe the ordinances , because God had not shewed them unto them , as he had doen unto Israel ( namely by his written Law given at Mount Sinai , ) hath no more weight then this , Therfore the nations were not bound to the moral Law , or to the Iudicials ; and so synned not in committing idolatrie , murder , whordome , or the like . But this is impious to say , and a false conclusion : therfore his conclusion also touching the ordinances is false , and can not rightly be gathered from this text . The evil of it further appeareth in one of his instances , the Sabbath day : which is one of the ten commandements , and instituted from the beginning of the world , Gen. 2. If then the nations were free from syn when they kept not the Sabbath , because they had it not written in the book of the Law or Tables of stone as had Israel : were they not also by the same reason free from syn in not keeping the other commanments ?

So for the Lords day now , he maketh the church of Christ onely ( and so the Papists and other like whom he accounteth true churches ) synners if they keep it not : all others he freeth from syn , as not bound to keep it . Wherupon this paradox followeth , that the further men fall away from Christ , the more free they are from syn . For the church of Rome being fallen to Antichrist the Pope , they are synners in his account , if they keep not the Lords day : but the churches of Corinth , Ephesus and other like which are fallen to Mahomet , they are no synners in his account , though they observe not the Lords day : and why ? Onely because they are fallen so farr , as they are no church of God , nor in his covenant of grace . Thus , the further from Christ the freer from syn ; if this doctrine be true .

But I suppose the contrary to be true : and that all peoples how farr soever fallen from Christ , are now bound to keep the Lords day , and other ordinances of Christ ; and it is their great syn that they doe not . For Christ sent his Apostles to teach all nations , & to baptise them , and to teach them to observe all things whatsoever he commanded his Apostles , even to the worlds end , Mat. 28. 19 , 20. And they went into all the world , preaching and admonishing all men every where to repent , and beleeve the Gospel , & to be baptised , and observe all the ordinances of Christ : and all that obeyed not , or that have since fallen from their obedience , are guiltie before God , and shal be condemned , because they beleeve not in Christ , and keep not his commandements . Mark . 16. 15. 16.

If it be sayd that a Turk or Pagan in that their estate of unbeleef may not lawfully be baptised or admitted to the Lords supper , til they repent : this is true ; yet can we not therfore say , they are not bound to be baptised , or are free from synin neglecting baptisme : for they are bound to all the doctrines and ordinances of the gospel in order , first to repent and beleeve , then to be baptised , then to receive the Lords supper , and so all the rest . If further it be sayd , that the Papists in their estate of misbeleef and idolatrie ; may without repentance and without returning to the true faith , be partakers of baptisme and the Lords supper &c: it is denyed . For if the Iewes ( which were the true church though corrupted ) might not be received to baptisme without repentance , as the scriptures shew , Mat. 3. 6. 7. — 10. Luk 7. 29. 30. Act. 2. 38. then the Antichristians , the members of that church which ( by Mr. ●ohnsons owne acknowledgment * * ●hr . plea , ●ag. 120. ) is fallen into most synfull and deep defection and apostasie , and is a notorious harlot and idolatresse ; may much less be baptised , or admitted to the Lords supper unless they repent . And wheras mine opposite pleadeth for their right in the sacraments & other ordinances which they should syn to neglect : it would be knowen where they are bound to receive them , whether in their own church , or in some Christian reformed church . If in their owne ; then they are bound to heare Mass , and syn if they be not partakers of it ; for that is their idolatrous supper : then doe not the Magistrates well to forbidd them their Masses , and other ecclesiastical exercises , which they are bound by God to frequent , and should syn if they used them not . If they have right unto them in other reformed churches : then is there to be a communion between true Christians and those Antichristians , in one body , at one Table : for ( as the Apostle sayth ) wee being many are one bread , and one bodie : for we are all partakers of that one bread , 1 Cor. 10. 17. But this were to build a new Babylon , and to make a confused mixture of the members of Christ and of Antichrist , contrary to all the scriptures . 2 Cor. 6. 14. 15. 16. 17 Rev. 21. 27.

The other scripture which he citeth , Deut 7. 1 - 11. helpeth him no more then the former : for there in the 11. verse , the Commandements , Statutes and Judgments ( which imply all Moses law ) are expressed : if other nations were freed from all these , then were they freed from all law , and so from all syn ; for where there is no Law , there is no transgression , seing Syn is the transgression of the Law : 1. Ioh. 3. 4. And where he instanceth mariage with Pagans , which is there forbidden Deut. 7. 3. and applieth it to Papists now , that they should syn to mary with such , I grant it . But his inference therupon , that therfore they are the true church and in the covenant of grace , I deny . For the Iewes at this day , which professe ( after their false manner ) the God of Israel , and all things written in the Law and Prophets , should syn if now they maried with such , doing contrary to their express Law , Mal. 2. 11 , Yet are not the Iewes now in the covenant of grace , or the church of God .

Againe in Deut. 7. 5. there is commandment to destroy images and like monuments of idolatrie : if this was peculiar to Israel , then other nations synned not , in suffering idols among them undestroyed : wheras the Apostle plainly sheweth their greivous syn in making and using such idols , Rom. 1. 23. and consequently it must needs also be their syn , that they did not forsake , destroy and abolish them .

If any now aske , whether the other nations were then bound to all the ordinances of Israel ? I answer , no : for some things were never before commanded , nor unto other then the church of Israel , as the strangers might eat some meates , which the Israelites might not , Deut. 14. 21. Such things having never been forbidden them of God , they might eat without syn , as we may at this day . But this I say of the nations , that all the Lawes , Statutes and judgments which were once commanded them of God ; they were bound for ever to keep , til God againe repealed them . As for example all the ten commandements ; and such Statutes ( or cerimonies ) as were taught them of God , as sacrificing , Gen 4. 3. 4. & 8. 20. not to eat flesh with the blood , Gen. 9. 4. and all other the like . And for judgments , to kill murderers , Gen. 9. 6. and so to punish other malefactors . And no Apostasie could ever free them from syn , in neglecting any of Gods lawes once given them . So no Apostasie could free the Israelites from any law of Moses ; or the world now , from the Law of Christ . The Iewes that under Antiochus turned , to Paganisme , 1 Maccab. 1. 43. were guiltie they and their seed , for neglecting circumcision , the Passover and all other ordinances of Moses ; and their apostasie ( wherby they went out from the covenant of God and his church , ) freed them not from syn at all . So the Christians in like manner that have Apostate to Mahometisme , are nevertheless in their synns for neglect of Christs trueth & ordinances ; though they be no Christian church , as all of us graunt .

Onely there is this difference to be put ; that such as know the will of God , ( as did the Iewes , and many Papists now may , by the scriptures , ) and doe it not ; shal be beaten with many stripes ; wheras the ignorant peoples , and Popish multitude , shal be beaten with few , Luke . 12. 47. 48. But to excuse them from syn wholly , is to plead for iniquitie . And for this cause , both David in Ps. 147. and Moses in Deut. 7. urgeth Israel to thankfullnes and obedience above other peoples , in that the Lord had now written his lawes and ordinances unto them , and made them an holy people , when he left other peoples , onely to that doctrine which by word of mouth was delivered them from Noe and his sonns ; which if they did forsake ( as they had in a great mesure , ) they should perish for ever .

7. His seventh & last ” ” Chr. plea , 124. &c. reason for the church of Rome is taken from 2. Thes. 2. 3. 4. Where it is prophesied that Antichrist should sit in the Temple of God . This argument he handleth at large . But first let it be observed , how all his reasons , hetherto , are shewed to be insufficient ▪ and built upon weak grounds , the first being taken from their baptisme , which is adulterate as the church it self : The second , from an inconvenience falsly presupposed , that none in that church can else be saved : The third , from a question , whether Christians , Iewes , Turks or Pagans , be the church . The 4. is againe from their baptisme . The 5. is from the types of Iudah and Israel in apostasie . The 6. is from a supposed freedome that such as are apostate from the covenant of God , should have from syn , if they neglect the ordinances of the gospel . None of these arguments are taken from the essential things wherof the true church consisteth ; none from the matter , to prove them saincts ; or forme , to prove them united unto Christ and one to an other , according to the order of his testament ; none from the faith , to shew it to be true ; or from the worship and service of God ; or from the ministerie , to manifest eyther of these to be according to Christ . And now , the last of his reasons is from a figurative phrase the Temple of God , which may be diversly understood and applied , as himself cannot deny . Let the prudent reader judge , whether these his seven arguments be any thing like those seven pillars , which Wisdome hewed out , when she builded her house , Prov. 9. 1.

Now let us weigh , his seventh reason . The Apostle ( sayth he ) speaking of Antichrist , in 2 Thes 2. 3. 4. describeth him thus ; There shall come an Apostasie ( defection or falling away ) and the man of syn shal be revealed , the son of perdition , who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God , or that is worshiped : so that he as God , suteth in the Temple of God , shewing himself that he is God &c. Here the Apostle describing Antichrist ▪ speaketh of the Temple of God , where he suteth &c. Now that by the Temple of God in Jsrael , was figured the church of God among Christians , appeareth by these scriptures , 1 Cor. 3. 16. 17. 2 Cor. 6. 16. Ephe. ● . 21. Rev. 11. 1. 2. 19. & 14. 15. 17. & 15. 5. 6. 8. & 16. 1. 17. compared with Zach. 6. 12. 13 ▪ and is acknowledged by the best writers of all ages &c. So then from this scripture J reason as followeth .

Jf the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie be the man of syn ( here spoken of ) and the son of perdition , who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God , or that is worshiped : then is the church of Rome the Temple of God here spoken of ; wherein he suteth as God , shewing himselfe that hee is God .

But the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie , is ( by * * Animadv p. 76 , -106 ▪ their owne grant ) the man of syn of whom the Apostle here speaketh &c. Therfore the church of Rome , is the Temple of God also , that here is spoken of .

I answer . This argument I might wholly grant , and not hurt the cause I plead for . For though the church of Rome be the Temple of God , which Paul speaketh of : yet followeth it not , that it is Gods true Temple , or true Church , ( which is the point that should be concluded ; ) seing the scriptures often speak of things as once they were ▪ though so they continue not still : as also , they speak of things according to the outward pretense and shew that is made of them ; though in deed and trueth they be nothing less . The first is manifest by these and other like instances : Abigail is called the wife of Nabal , 1 Sam. 30. 5. though Nabal was then dead , and his wife maried to David . Simon is still called the Leper , Mat. 26. 6. though he was then clensed of his leprosie . The king of Tyrus an heathen man that lived in Ezekiels dayes , is sayd to have been in Eden the garden of God , to have been upon the holy mountaine of God , and to have walked in the middest of the stones of fyre , Ezek. 28. 13. 14. meaning that he had been in Gods church , on mount Sion , among the people of God : although not he himself , but Huram his predecessor ( many yeres before , in the dayes of David and Solomon ) was the man that became a proselyte in Israel , and helped to build the Temple ; 2 Chron. 2. 3. — 16. even as if a man should speak to the Bishop of Rome at this day , and tell him what he was for a Bishop in th' Apostles dayes , and how now he is degenerate and become the man of syn . The mountaines of Horeb and Tabor , where God once gave his Law and Christ was transfigured ; are after still called the mount of God , and the Holy mount , 1 King . 19. ● . 2 Pet. 1. 18. because they had been for the time * * Exod. 3. 5. sanctified by the presence of God . And so the Temple in Ierusalem , after the Iewes had crucified Christ , refused the gospel , & were † † Rom. 11. 20. broken off , because of unbeleef ; and the sacrificing and ” ” Ioh. 4. 21. worshiping in that place was ended ; yet is it until the utter ruine of it by the Romans , called the holy place , Mat. 24. 15. Thus also the Citie become an harlot , is called the faithfull Citie ▪ Esai. 1. 21. the wicked that hath forsaken his righteousnes is named arighteous man . Ezek. 18. 26. according to their former and not their present estate . And when these titles are given them , it is not to justifie them at all , but to aggravate their syn . So for the second , that things are called according to the outward appearance and pretext set upon them , though they be in deed false ; is evident by these and the like examples ; false Gods , which are but idols , are called gods , usually : so one Prophet calleth those the Philistians gods , 1 Chron. 14. 12. which an other calleth their images . 2 Sam. 5. 21. False prophets are called Prophets , 1 King . 22. 6. 22 : and Balaam a Soothsayer among the heathens , Jos. 13. 22. is called a Prophet . 2 Pet. 2. 16. The evil spirit whom the witch of End or raised up for Saul , is called in the scripture Samuel , 1 Sam. 28. 11. 12 ▪ 15. 16. 20. by reason wherof , the Papists * * Bellarm. ●e Chr. ani 〈…〉 a , l. ● . c. 11. contend that it was Samuel in deed , and not the Divil ; urging the letter , as mine opposite doth urge against me this phrase of the Temple of God . The idolatrous Temple which Ieroboam made in Israel , in honour of the God which had brought them out of Egypt , is called the house of their God , Am●s 2. 8. yet that it was his true house or temple , I never heard of any that would affirme : though it was the true God whom they worshiped therin ; for Baal with his house , was then destroyed out of Israel , 2 King , 1● . 27. 28.

Now mine opposite hath given us a good rule in this his last book , when answering the Anabaptists he sayth , * * Christi plea pag. The word of God is not the bare letter or outward syllables , but the intendement and meaning of the holy Ghost by whom it was given . Which should carefully be observed by the due consideration of the scriptures , with the circumstances therof , and by the conference of other places of scripture , and the proportion of fayth layd togither . Which whiles the Anabaptists neglict , they look on the scripture partially , and press the letter extreamly , without consideration of the true and right meaning therof . These words of his are true ; the more it is to be lamented that he himself would so press the letter against me , and not weigh the meaning of the same , by it self , and other scriptures , and the proportion of fayth layd togither .

In alleaging this text , he layeth downe the words thus , There shal come an apostasie ( or falling away ) : wheras the Apostle sayth , except there come an apostasie ( or falling-away ) first : which word first , may intimate that the church should fall away from the love of the trueth , before the man of syn should be revealed : and this is apparant by the 10. verse , where the people whom Antichrist seduceth , are sayd to be them that perish ; because they received not the love of the trueth , that they might be saved . Or , if the word first ( which mine opposite leaveth out , ) be understood before Christs coming , then is it meant of the apostasie ( or the falling . away , ) so called by an excellencie , as exceeding all other . And is not to be referred to Antichrist the head onely , but to Antichristians the bodie also ; who after other synns , should fall away with Antichrist , and be damned with him ; as in the 11. verse it is sayd , God shall send them strong delusion , that they should beleeve a lye ; shat they all might be damned who beleeve not the trueth , but had pleasure in unrighteousnes . So that by the whole scope of this scripture it is evident , the Apostle divideth not the people of the church of Rome , from the Bishop and ministers of the same ; as if the people should be Gods true Temple , Christs true Church , under his covenant , and so in the state of grace ; when the Bishops and ministers are the Divils Temple , Antichrist , the man of syn , and so in the state of damnation : but maketh both bishops and people , deceivers and deceived , all of them under wrath and condemnation ; otherweise then my opposite would perswade . For he pleading thus , The Apostle speaking of Antichrist , describeth him thus . There shal come an apostasie &c: would have men think , that the Bishop and ministers of the church of Rome are the apostasie , and the people not : contrarie to all the scope of this scripture , contrarie also to Paul , in 1 Tim. 4 1. where he foretelleth of some that should apostate ( or depart ) from the faith , giving heed to seducing spirits , and doctrines of Divils ; meaning it of the people deceived by false teachers : yea it is contrary also to mine opposites own graunt , who sayd ( a litle before ) that the church of Rome is fallen into most sinfull and deep defection and apostasie , and so is a notorious harlot and idolatr●ss . Wherefore his distinction here between the apostasie & the church of Rome , making the one Antichrist , the other Gods temple , under his covenant of grace : neyther accordeth with the scriptures , nor with his own assertion .

Next this , where he sayth , that by the Temple of God in Israel , was figured the church of God among Christians : it is graunted . But withall , let it be noted , that himself can not deney , * * Chr. plea , p. 58. but the Temple and tabernacle in Israel , was not the church and congregation of Gods people properly , but a sacramental signe of Gods dwelling with them ; which I before † † Animadv . ●ag . 79 confirmed by these scriptures , Exod: 25. 8. 2. Chron. 6. 2. Ezek. 37. 26. 27. Rev. 21. 3. Secondly , he himself affirmeth , that * * Chr. plea. ●ag. 149. the temple at Ierusalem , did primarily figure out Christ , and secondarily the church , both the catholik or universal , and particular churches likeweise ; & particular Christians , and ( in several respects ) both their bodies , and their soules and consciences . Vpon which graunts of his , it foloweth , that there is no necessarie consequence of this his proposition , Jf the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie be the man of syn spoken of in 2. Thes. 2. then is the church of Rome , the Temple of God there spoken of : for he understanding by the church , the people , ( as in 1. Cor. 3. 16. 17. 2. Cor. 6. 16. Eph. 2 21. ) and yet granting that the Temple in Israel , was not the people ; all may see the weaknes and insufficiencie of this inference , that because the Pope of Rome sitteth as God in the Temple of God ; therfore the people of the church of Rome , are that Temple of God there spoken of ; & consequently Gods true church . For why now may Animad. ●ag . 79. Eph. 3. 17. ●2 . 22. 1. ●or. 3 ▪ 16. Rev. 13. 4. ● . & . 16. ● 1. Tim. 4. ● 2. Thes. 2. ● . 11. 12. ● . Thes. 2. 4. we not as well ( if not much better ) say that by the Temple of God , is understood the doctrine and profession of Christ the true Temple ; or as in my former † book I shewed , thus . As the Temple was an outward signe of Gods presence with his people , and of his inward dwelling in their harts * by saith and by his spirit ▪ unto their salvation : so Antichrists temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people , in whose harts † he dwelleth by Popish faith , and by his spirit of errour carying them to damnation . But as Antichrist shal not professedly deny the true God or Christ , though in deed he falsly * sheweth himself that he is ▪ God : so shal h● not professedly deny the Temple or church of God , but falsly vaunt his adulterous synagogue to be the same . Vnto this exposition , mine opposite hath given no answer : and it being according to the scriptures , & trueth of the thing in controversie ; I leave it to the prudent reader , whether the outward shew and profession of Christ and Christian religion , be not the first thing here intended of th' Apostle by the Temple of God . And this is further confirmed by Rev. 11. 1. Where the Temple , Altar , and Worshipers , are three distinct things ; and the people are the worshipers there spoken of , & neyther the Temple , nor the Altar ; of which place we shal treat anone .

Then wheras he granteth that the Temple in Ierusalem did primarily figure out Christ : how is it , that he wholly neglecteth the primarie thing figured , and insisteth upon the secondary , the church or people of Rome ? Seing it is knowen , how the Pope pretendeth him self to be Christs vicar and deputie on earth , and to be the servant and worshiper of Christ in heaven : and may we think that th' Apostle in warning them of the * * 2 Thes. 2 ▪ 7. mysterie of iniquitie , would not imply the chief point of the mysterie , that Antichrist should in pretence sit for Christ and in his sted , as his vicar generall on earth ? Thus to sit in the Temple ( or for the Temple ) of God , may well be understood , that Antichrist should sit for Christ , a pretended friend , but in deed an adverse foe .

Now for that which the Temple secondarily figured , namely the church catholik , and also particular , and so mens consciences : he wavereth in his application . He sayth † † Chr. plea p. 150. 15● . this terme [ the church of Rome ] is taken eyther particularly ( which he applieth to the Laterane church in Rome , the Popes parish church : ) or more generally , for all other such Christian churches ; as are come under the Popes jurisdiction &c. This later I hold to be most proper here : for what needed there such warning to the Thessalonians & other christian churches through the world , if a Bishop of the Lateran parish ( a corner in Rome ) had exalted himself above God therin onely ; and had not usurped also a pretended Christian power over all ? And the complement of the prophesie , is an evident exposition of it : for who knoweth not , that the Pope scorneth to be Bishop of the Lateran parish onely ▪ it is a jurisdiction over the catholik church throughout the earth , which he chalengeth . And now what proof bringeth mine opposite , that the church of Rome as God constituted it , is taken generally for other Christian churches under the Popes jurisdiction ? None at all : neyther can he bring any jote of Gods word for the same ▪ Againe what proof maketh he , that the catholik Romane church wherin the Pope sitteth , is the true church of God ? None but this , * * pag. 152. J suppose these men themselves being better advised , wil not deny them to be the churches and Temple of God . But he should have shewed ( if it had been possible for him ) that the Romane church is by divine institution the catholik or universal church : which because I assure my self it can never be doen , I conclude that this Romane catholik church is a fiction of the Popes braine , and a meere idol like himself : and is no otherweise the Temple of God , then the Pope is Christs universal vicar ; namely in lying words and vaine ostentation . And so the maine ground for the Temple of God wherin Antichrist sitteth , to be the true church of Christ , is overthrowne .

As for the Popes Laterane parish , I both deny it to be Christs true church ; and that it onely is the Temple of God wherin Antichrist should sit . His proof of the former is this . * * pag. 150. Jf we understand it of a particular church , ( as the Apostle wrote his epistle to the church of the Romans ) how shall we soundly deny it eyther to be the Temple of God , or Antichrist to be set therin ? Thus have we suppositions and questions , in sted of proofes . To his demand I answer : it is the Temple of God in pretence , not in trueth ; even as the Pope is a bishop of Christ in pretence , but in deed is Antichrist the man of syn , as mine opposite granteth . The church that was in Rome in Pauls time , wil no more justifie the Popes synagogue there now ; then the Christian ministers which were then in that church , Rom. 12. wil justifie the Antichristian prelates that there reigne at this day . Secondly , the Laterane parish at Rome , is of the Popes faith , religion and worship : there are like priests like people . Now if the Bishop of that parish be Antichrist , the son of perdition , as th' Apostle telleth us , 2 Thes. 2. 3. then his parishoners which have no other faith or religion then he , are also the children of damnation , 2 Thes. 2. 12. and so can not be judged to be Christs true church , and in the state of grace ▪ sealed of God with his covenant unto salvation . In the Lateran Church of Rome , where Antichrist is parish priest ; the people are grosse idolaters , hereticks , worshipers † † Rev. 9. 20. of Divils , and of him that sitteth as God in the Temple of God ; ascribing unto him that Holyness , divine power and jurisdiction , which he doeth blasphemously challenge ; and mine opposite could not shew one man of that parish that differeth at all from the religion of their priest : how is it then possible that he should be Antichrist , and they true Christians ; he under wrath , they under the covenant of grace ; he the very Temple of the Divil , and they the true Temple of God ? For shal not the same religion and faith which justifieth them , justifieth him also ; when it is found in him as well as in them ? Wherfore eyther the man of syn himself must be a sainct among those saincts : or they togither with him must be ( as the holy Ghost calleth them ) an habitation of Divils , Revel. 18. 2. To conclude then , seing there is no true visible church of Gods institution , but a particular congregation ; ( any other general or catholik visible church of Rome , being but the Popes own wicked fiction ; ) and seing Antichrists parish church can no more be Christs then Antichrist himself : it can not without injury to the Apostle , and to the proportion of faith , and to other scriptures , and to reason it self , be gathered that the church of Rome is at this day Gods true Temple or Christs true Church . Albeit , for that there was once a true Chrrstian church * * Rom. 1. in Rome , and these Antichristians now profess to be the successors of the same , and pretend one faith , religion & worship , and reteine some doctrines and ordinances of Christ still , which they synfully profane : they are therfore sayd to be the Temple of God ; as before I have shewed .

Moreover there can no church be called the true Temple of God , but in respect of Christ the chief corner stone and foundation of the building : for he is called the living Stone , and his people are living stones , built up a spiritual house in him , and so grow up to an holy Temple in the Lord , 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5 Eph. 2. 20. 21. If therfore Antichrist sitteth in the true Temple of God , he sitteth first in Christ the head , and secondarily in his body and people : but Antichrist is no otherweise in Christ then in a feighned profession of him , whom in deed he denyeth , 1 Joh. 2. 22. therfore he is not in the Temple of God , but in respect of his profession of Christianitie and of the Christian societie in his people , both which are false and deceitfull , after the working of Satan , & in all deceivablenes of unrighteousnes , 2 Thes. 2. 9. 10. Now it followeth , that I defend my former writings against which he excepteth ; as for the reproches which he layeth upon my self , and his trifling exceptions against words and phrases , I will omitt as fruitless .

Wheras in scanning the Apostles words , I noted mine opposites omission of Antichrists sitting as God in the Temple of God ; which words as God , doe give light to the true meaning : he excepteth * * Chr. plea ●●g. 142. how he could alleage that one Greek copie wanteth those words ▪ so doth the Syriakas Mr. Beza observeth , also the Latine . I answer , if one copie want them , and many , or all other have them ; it is no wisdom to leave the many & follow one without apparant reason . For the Syriak he was deceived , for it hath those words plainly , though the copie which Tremellius used wanted them , through the copiers default , as Mr. Iunius sheweth in his notes upon the Syriak version on 2. Thes. 2. 4. As for the Latine , it omitteth sundry other good things in other places , and is no warrant for us to follow .

Obj. The question was not about the manner of Antichrists sitting in the Temple of God , whether he should sit as God therin or no. Therfore I needed not alleadge these words .

Answ. But the question was about th' Apostles meaning in that place ; and therfore his words which help to manifest his meaning , should have been alleaged .

Obj. Jt is knowen to be usual in all writers sometimes not to mention , somtimes not to insist at ▪ all upon such words as perte●ne not to the matter in hand &c.

Answ. Yet I , though I first used the whole phrase of the Temple of God , am † † Chr. plea ●●g. 146. taxed for that I doe not after alwayes repeat all the words : But to let pass such things , this speech sitteth as God , perteyneth much to the matter in hand : for if the people ( which he wil have to be the Temple of God , ) doe so acknowledge and honour the Man of syn for God , as he there sitteth shewing himself that he is God : then may we as well doubt whether they be the people of the true God , as whether the man of syn be the true God . But whatsoever honour & divine power the man of syn challengeth to himself , the ●ame doe the people of Rome ( the Temple of God ) give unto him , in word and deed . So the words are needfull , and perteine to the matter in hand . For by the worshiping of that Beast , the false church is distinguished from the true church , which refuseth to worship him , Rev. 13. 8. 16. 17. & 14. 1. 4. 9. 10. 11. 12. & 20. 4. 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12.

Obj. * * pag. 143. Of Antichrists sitting , th' Apostle saith , that he sitteth as God : but of the seat where he sitteth , he sayth expresly , in the Temple of God ; and sayth not as in the Temple of God , as the answer here would import ; which therfore is merely shifting , and full of deceyt .

Answ. So the Prophet sayth expresly , in the house of their God , Amos. 2. 8. and sayth not as in the house of their God ; though he speaketh of an idolatrous temple , which Ieroboam pretended to be Gods : and the Apostle sayth expressly , there be gods many and lords many , 1. Cor. 8. 5. and sayth not as gods , or as lords , when yet he meaneth the false gods and idols of the heathen . And the scripture expressly sayth , the woman saw Samuel ; and Saul perceived that it was Samuel , and , then sayd Samuel , & , because of the words of Samuel ; 1. Sam. 28. 12. 14. 16. 20. and sayth not , one as or like to Samuel , though it was but the divil in the likenes of Samuel . Paul sayth expressly that Satan is transfigured into an Angel of light 2. Cor. 11. 14. and sayth not a● into an Angel ; though in the very next words he sayth , that his ministers are transfigured as the ministers of righteousnes , v. 15. Which terme of transfiguring , is sometime used for a true change , as in Phil. 3. 21. he sayth Christ shal transfigure our vile body , that it may be conformed to his glorious body : yet in the former place he useth the word but for a counterfeyt change . And that the people which worship Antichrist as God , are called the Temple of God , for name , shew and pretence ; I have before manifested .

Obj. He doth abuse the scripture &c. as if Pauls words were not plaine to such as will understand , that Antichrist exalteth himself above all that is called god , so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God ; and therfore is not the true God , but the man of syn &c.

Answ. Some may think , by Pauls words , that Antichrist should openly profess himself to be God , and above all Gods : yet the Pope ( who is the head of Antichrist ) professeth himself to be the servant of the servants of God , & to be but the minister of Christ ▪ and Paul teacheth the same , when he calleth his working the mystery ( or hidden ▪ secret ) of iniquity ; 2 Thes. 2. 7. Even so some may think , by the Temple of God , is meant the true church of God , the people that in Christ are builded-togither for an habitation of God through the Spirit , and that Christ dwelleth in their harts by ●aith , Eph. 2. 21. 22. & 3. 17 ▪ yet the Papists ( who are Antichristians ) doe beleeve that man of syn , that exalteth himself above all that is called God , to be a most holy man , and Christian bishop , they are of his saith , worship and religion , trusting in his pardons for remission of their synns &c: and therfore are no better Christians then he , but children of perdition with him , and are by Paul in the very same place counted among them that perish , because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved , therfore God hath sent them strong delusion , that they should beleeve a lye ; that they all might be damned who beleeve not the trueth , but have pleasure in unrighteousnes , 2 Thes 2. 10. 11. 12. Who now , ( except they be blinded with affection ) can think that Paul calleth such people the Temple of God otherweise then in respect of their profession of Christianitie , and boasting , that they are the onely good Christians , when they are in deed the sworne servants of Antichrist , and synagogue of Satan , as Rev. 3. 9.

Object . Difference is to be put , between the man of syn that sitteth , & between the temple wherin he sitteth : he sitteth as God , yet the temple wherin he sitteth , is the Temple of God .

Answ. There is in deed such a difference as is between the pastor and the flock ; ( understanding by the Temple of God , the church of Rome at this day : ) such a difference as is between the seducer and the seduced , both adjudged to destruction , 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. Rev. 14. 9. 10. 11. Other differences if men feigne , that the pastors ( or hierarchie ) are the man of syn , sonns of perdition ; and the idolatrous people which be of one faith and religion with them , are men of God , and in his covenant of grace ; it is farr from the trueth .

Object . See the like in the cases that fell out at Jerusalem and the Temple there : when Baals idol of indignation was set at the entrie of the house of God , Ezek. 8. 3. 5. and when Antiochus Epiphanes and his officers profaned the sanctuarie and citie of Jerusalem , and set the image of Iupiter Olympius , in the Temple and seat of God , Dan. 11. 31. 36. who would not now put difference between the idols and persons aforesayd on the one hand , and between the Temple and citie of God wherin they were set , and which they polluted , on the other .

Answ. The examples are farr unlike : first Rome , is not Ierusalem but Babylon , Rev. 17. Secondly , the Temple and holy things in Ierusalem being made of senseless stones and matter , they could not be polluted with syn in themselves as the * * 1 Pet. 2. 5. living stones of Christs house the people now may soon be , and turned into a synagogue of Satan ; as the christian churches in the Apostles dayes , are now long since turned to be Turks and Papists . Doth not the Law plainly teach us this ; for in the yerely cleansing of the Sanctuarie , it was because of the uncleannesses of the sonns of Jsrael , and because of their trespasses , in all their synns , Levit. 16. 16. and for no uncleannes or syn in it self . Thirdly , the example of Antiochus is fit , but wrong applied : for he speaketh onely of Antiochus and his officers ; wheras both he , his officers and his people ( the common souldjers ) were they that defiled the sanctuarie of God ; as it is sayd in the storie , Antiochus went up against Jsrael & Jerusalem with a great multitude , and entred proudly into the Sanctuary &c. 1 Maccab. 1. 20. 21. So in applying this , he would have the Pope and his officers ( the hierarchie ) to be the man of syn , as Antiochus and his officers : & the multitude of papists at Rome , he wil not have to be ( as in deed they should be counted ) answerable to Antiochus soldjers ; but they must be the Temple of God , answerable to the Temple of Ierusalem , a most unjust resemblance . For the Temple then was a mere patient , and suffred that abuse at Antiochus hands : so the thing answerable hereto , should be ( if he would have made a fit comparison , ) the Christians ( Gods true Temple , ) which suffer for the truthes sake at the Antichristians hands ; such as are opposed to the worshipers of the beast , and those that receive his mark , of whom it is written , Here is the patience of the saincts ; here are they that keep the commandements of God , and the faith of Jesus , Revel. 14. 9. — 12. and againe , I saw the soules of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus , and for the word of God , and which had not worshiped the beast nor his image &c , Rev. 20. 4. And such I never doubted but they were the true Temple of God : but I deny that the church of Rome at this day is such a people or such a Temple : they are the marked soldjers of Antiochus the Pope , and honour him as God in the temple of God ( their pretended christian church ) with high impietie . Or at least , they are like the Apostate Iewes , which turned to Antiochus religion and became heathens , with worse impietie ; 1 Maccab. 1. 13. 14. 15. 43. 52.

Of this sort is his next allegation , † † pag. 14 where to make his reader merry , he likeneth me to the old man of Athens , which would compell the Iewes to call their Temple by the name of Iupiter Olympius , because Iupiters image was set up in it ; 2 Mac. 6. 1. 2 , so I would have the church of Rome called Antichrists church &c. I answer : if the church , the people of Rome were now mere patients , amongst whom Antichrist cometh in by violence , they not consenting unto him any more then Gods temple did to Iupiters image ; it should be foolishnes in me to call it Antichrists church . Or , to put the example more fitly ; if a Iew had been forced by Antiochus violently to kyss or bow the knee to Iupiters image , when he resisted and testified against it : none could justly call him an idolater , or one of Iupiters people . But if an other Iew had revolted to Antiochus religion , and beleeved in his Iupiter and honoured him with hart , profession and action ; he now might justly be called the servant of Iupiter , or one of his people , ( as the Moabites are called the people of Chemosh , Numb. 21. 29. ) So the church of Rome now fallen from true Christianity , and beleeving , worshiping , obeying Antichrist , the Popes holynes , are and may justly be called his church : or else Antichrist hath no temple , church or people in the world .

Object . Observe here and throughout his treatise , how still he calleth that the Temple , church and bodie of Antichrist , which Paul expressly and purposely calleth the Temple of God . And so therin note stil his sh●f●s and his errours &c.

Answ. Loe still an urging of the bare letter , as doe the Papists This is my body , to prove their transubstantiation , that there is no bread left but Christs very body , really and properly . I have ( I trust ) without shifting or errour proved the present church of Rome to be Antichrists temple church and bodie , if the Pope be Antichrist . And seing his * * 2 Thes. 2. 7. mysterie of iniquitie , is contrary to Christs † † 1 Tim. 3. 16. mysterie of godlynes ; and Christ hath a mystical temple which is his church and bodie , Eph. 2. 21. & 5. 23. I would gladly know what temple church and body Antichrist hath , if the church of Rome be not the same . Againe , he speaketh too largely , that J stil so call it throughout my treatise ; for I have other weise written , though it liked him not , thus . Animadv . ag. 79. 80. Gods true temple and tabernacle is in mount Sion ▪ in heaven ▪ ( Rev. 14. 1. 17. ) where God sitteth on a throne , ( Rev. 16. 17. & 7. 15. ) and dwelleth among his people ; where is the Ark of his covenant ( Rev. 11. 19. ) and from thence , lightnings , voices , thondrings , earthquake and h●yle come forth against th● Antichristians his enemies ; and vials of his wrath powred out upon the throne of the beast , ( Rev. 16. 1. 2. 10. ) and on men that have his mark . On the contrary , the Beast , which is the kingdome of Antichrist , ascendeth from beneath , out of the bottomless pit , ( Rev. 17. 8. ) and blasphemeth this heavenly tabernacle ( Rev. 13. 6. ) and sitteth in Babylon ( Rev. 16. 19. ) upon the Dragons throne ( Rev. 13. 2. ) and fighteth against the Lamb , and against the saincts , ( Rev. 19. 19. ) treading under foot the holy citie ( Rev. 11. 2. ) and casting downe the place of Christs sanctuarie , ( Dan. 8. 11. ) When th' Apostle therfore telleth us , that Antichrist sitteth as God in the Temple of God , it is to be understood of their invading and destroying of Gods church , and people , as the heathens of old deal● with Jerusalem and dwellers therin , ( Psal. 79. Dan. 8 , 11. 13. & 11. 36. Ier. 22. 12. 13. Law . 2. 7. 9. ) Secondly of their own vaine ostentation , whiles they wil have it called the Christian catholik church , and the Pope the head of the same . Ezek. 28. 2. 6. Esa. 14. 13. 14. 2 Thes. 2. 9 ▪ 10 ▪ Rev. 13. 11. 14. & 17. 4. 2 Cor. 11. 13. 14. 15. Thus I grant , that the Temple which Antichrist invadeth & destroyeth , is Gods true Temple : but that wherin the Beast sitteth as God , which he trimmeth , upholdeth and boasteth of ; ( as he doeth the church of Rome at this day ) is the synagogue of Satan . But he procedeth .

Object . As for the ancient Doctor whom here he citeth , let us hear † Pag. 147. himself speak . His words are these . That which is the Temple of any idolor Divil , the Apostle would not call the Temple of God . Wherupon some will have in this place , not the Prince himself , but after a manner his whole bodie , th●● is the multitude of men perteyning unto him , togither with himself under the Prince , understood to be Antichrist . And more rightly also they think it to be sayd in Latine 〈◊〉 in the Greek ; that he sitteth not in the Temple of God , but for the Temple of God which is the church . As we say he sitteth for a friend , that is as a friend . Augustine de Civic . D●● , l. 20. c. 19. Where note how farr differing Augustine is from this man that citeth him , &c.

Answ. There is not so great difference as mine opposite would pretend . First I cited not Augustine for his own judgment , but for others whom he speaketh of , touching the translation of the Text , in the Temple of God , or , for the Temple . Secondly , he setteth down Augustines words maymed both at head and foot . For Augustine beginneth thus : But in what temple of God he shal sit as God , is uncertaine : whether in that ruine of the Temple which was built by King Solomon ; or in the church . For that which is the temple of any idol or divil , the Apostle would not call the temple of God : &c. Now the ruine of Solomons temple , cannot at this day be called Gods temple , otherweise then because it was the Temple of God of old ; & hath now no more holynes in deed & trueth , than any other place in the world . And thus I have granted that the church of Rome may be called the church of God , in respect that there was a church there in Pauls time , wheras now it hath no more true holynes , then the synagogue of Satan . So we see how for advantage mine opposite baulked Augustines first words . In the end , he breaketh off in the midst of a period : for Augustine sayth , sitteth for a friend , that is as a friend : or if any other thing is wont to be understood by this kind of speech , So he defineth not certainly of this place , but leaves it doubtfull : and presently after confesseth his ignorance ; For what is this ( sayth Augustine ) For the mysterie of iniquitie doth already work , onely he who now holdeth let him hold , till he be taken out of the way . J confess my self to be utterly ignorant what he meaneth . Thus we need not strive about Augustines words here : and I grant , that the Apostle would not have called it the Temple of God , unless eyther it were so in deed and trueth , or had been so in times past , or did pretend to be so still . And I think all wil likewise grant , that the holy Ghost would not have called the witches spirit at endor * * 1 Sam. 28. Samuel , unless eyther it had been Samuel in deed ( as the Papists doe contend ; ) or some thing in pretence and shew like Samuel . Neyther would the prophet have sayd to the King of Tyrus , † † Ezek. 28. 13. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God , ( a proselyte in the church of Israel ; ) unless eyther himself or some of his predecessors had been there in times past . Neyther would Amos have called the Israelites idol temple “ “ Amo. 2. 8. the house of their God , unless eyther it were so in deed , or in pretense : which phrase when the Greek translateth according to the letter , the house of their God , and the Chaldee paraphrast ( as ancient as the Apostles age ) expoundeth the house of their idols , they contradict not one another : seing the same thing may be Gods in shew , and the divils in deed and trueth : for even Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of light ; 2 Cor. 11. 14.

Obj. When the Apostle describeth the mysterie of Antichrists iniquitie , would he teach the church that the place of his sitting is the Temple of God , if he meant that it were in deed the synagogue of Satan and the temple of Antichrist ? For that Antichrist should sit in the temple of Antichrist and synagogue of Satan , what mysterie is there in it ? All the world would easily perceive , that these agreed very well and most fitly togither . But for Antichrist to sit in Gods temple and Christs church , this is in deed a mysterie .

Answ. The mysterie of iniquitie began in the true church , but continued not therein alwayes : for when it was discerned , the church eyther cast it out , or soon degenerated into a synagogue of Satan , if it accepted Antichrist for God , as the Church of Rome doth at this day . Which I further manifest thus , 1. The Apostle sayth , As ye have heard that Antichrist shal come , even now are there many Antichrists , &c. They went out from us , but they were not of us : for if they had been of us , they would no doubt have continued with us , but ( they went out ) that they might be made manifest , that they were not all of us . Who is a lyer , but he that denyeth that Jesus is the Christ ? he is Antichrist , that denyeth the Father and the Son . Whosoever denyeth the Son , the same hath not the Father : 1. Joh. 2. 18. 19. 22. 23. This scripture teacheth us first that all hereticks departing from the faith of Christ , are generally Antichrists , though they reteyn the name of Christians still , as did the hereticks in th' Apostles time . 2. That such are gone out from the church , and are in deed none of it , though they pretend to be the true church , as all hereticks have doen. 3. That both teachers and people departed from the faith and church of Christ , are comprehended under the name of Antichrists , and not the Bishops onely . 4. That whosoever is Antichrist ( especially the great Antichrist ) he denyeth the Son ( Christ ) and consequently God the Father . Now let us apply these things to the Bishop and hierarchie of Rome , whome mine opposite granteth to be the great Antichrist . If the Pope and his hierarchie be Antichrist , then are they none of the Apostolik church , but gone out of the same : but they are Antichrist ( by my opposites owne confession : ) Therfore they are none of th' Apostolik church .

The Pope and his hierarchie are both in and of the church of Rome , the heads , teachers and principall members of it , of the same faith , religion and worship : but they are not in or of the Apostolik christian church , as before is proved : therfore the church of Rome is not an apostolik Christian church .

If the church of Rome denyeth both the Father and the Son : then is it Antichrist ( as the Apostle sayth ) and so no true Christian church . But the church of Rome denyeth both the Father and the Son : therfore it is no true Christian church .

If the Pope & his hierarchie deny both the Father and the Son , then the church of Rome also denyeth them ; for they beleeve as the Pope and hierarchie beleeveth , have one and the same religion with their preists . But the Pope and his hierarchie deny both the Father and the Son , otherweise they are not the Antichrist , ( as mine opposite sayth they are : ) therefore the Church of Rome also denyeth both the Father and the Son . Now seing it is thus , how is it possible that it should continue the true Church of Christ , otherweise then by lying pretext and ostentation ? And this is the mysterie of inquitie , if men could comprehend it that the Bishops and people of Rome , being at first Christs true church , departed by degrees from the faith & worship of God ; til they came joyntly to beleeve lyes , and to worship creatures , idols and divils ( Rev. ● . 30. ) and became a Beast ( or Antichristian kingdome ) yet with two hornes like the Lamb Christ ( Rev. 13. ) & * * Rev. 13. 6. blaspheming Gods Tabernacle & them that dwel in heaven , ( that is the true church , ) they pretend themselves to be the onely true church of Christ , and that all other are hereticks ; they pretend succession even from th Apostles dayes , without change of religion , and so they sit in the temple of God , or for the Temple , as if they & none but they were the Temple and church of God ; the Pope being the head of this sinfull corporation , of this Beast or kingdome ; and exalting himself above God & Christ , whiles yet he calleth himself Christs vicar , and the Servant of the servants of God ; and by strong delusion keepeth his people in beleef of lyes , that togither with him they all might be damned , who beleeve not the trueth but have pleasure in unrighteousnes ; as the Apostle sayth , 2. Thes. 2. 12.

Now where he objecteth , what mysterie is there in it , that Antichrist should sit in the temple of Antichrist ? I answer , it is a great mysterie , in that it is doen by him and his , under the name and shew of Christianitie ; and as the Apostle sayth , after the working of Satan , with all power and signes and lying wonders , and with all deceivablenes of unrighteousnes , 2. Thes. 9. 10. And where he further sayth , but for Antichrist to sit in Christs church , this is in deed a mysterie ; I answer , it is in deed a contrarietie and impossibilitie ( not a mysterie : ) for no man can serve two masters , Mat. 6. 24. of whom a man is overcome , of the same is he brought in bondage , 2. Pet. 2. 19. to whom men yeild themselves servants to obey , his servants they are to whom they obey , Rom. 6. 16. Now the church of Rome , yeilding unto and obeying Antichrist , cannot be the servants of Christ , if th' Apostles doctrine be true . And after mine opposites manner of reasoning , an other ▪ man might say , seing Christianitie is the mystirie of godlines , 1. Tim. 3. 16. as Antichristianitie is the mysterie of iniquitie , 2. Thes. 2. 7. Christ must sit in the Temple of Satan , as Antichrist sitteth in the temple of God : for for Christ to sit in the Temple & church of Christ , what mysterie is there in it ? but for Christ to sit in Satans temple , and Antichrists church , this is in deed a mysterie . Were not this ( think we ) good reasoning , to put darknes for light , and light for darknes ; Christ into Antichrists place , and Antichrist into Christs ; for to finde out a mysterie ? But they that have their eyes opened to read the mysterie that is not onely in the Pope , but on † † Rev. 17. ● ▪ the forehead of the whore of Babylon his church , will soon espie this fraud : though others are bewitched with her painted face . For as Satan can transforme himself into an Angel of light , and his ministers can be transformed as the ministers of righteousnes 2 Cor. 11. 14. 15. is it such a marvel , that he should transforme his temple and church , into the Temple of God , and church of Christ : and yet as he is a Divil stil , notwithstanding his transformation ; so his Temple continueth stil the Temple of the Divil , and church of Antichrist , how ever they are disguised with other names and habits . And to help a litle to the discerning of both these opposite mysteries of pietie and impietie : wee are to know , that Christs Kingdome beginneth in the kingdome of Satan , and is perfected in the Kingdome of God ; and Antichrists kingdome beginneth in the kingdome of God , and is perfected in the kingdome of Satan . For , the god of this world having blinded the eyes of infidels , who are dead in synns , and walk * * Eph. ● . 1. 2 ▪ according to the prince of the power of the aier : Christ by his Ministers sent into the world , and by his word of trueth , the gospel , causeth light to arise unto them , openeth their eyes , and turneth them † † Act. 26. 18. from darknes to light , and from the power of Satan vnto God , that they may receive forgivenes of synns , and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in him : and thus God delivereth them from the power of darknes , and translateth them * * Col. 1. 13. into the kingdome of his beloved son . Then cometh Satan by Antichrists , which are his ministers , † † Gal. 2. 4. privily crept into the church , and by the word of “ “ 2 Thes. 2. 11. lying , ( which is Antichrists gospel ) he darkneth the mindes of them that have not received ‘* ‘* vers. 10. the love of the trueth , and turneth them back againe from God , and by *‘ *‘ 2 Pet. 2. ● ▪ damnable heresies privily brought in draweth them even to deny the Lord that bought them , and so bring upon themselves swift destruction . Then doe “ “ 1 Job . 2. 19. they goe out from the church , & blaspheme † † 2 Pet 2. 2. the way of trueth , and togither with the Beast , doe ‘† ‘† Rev. 19. 19. warr against Christ : whom yet in name and pretense they would seem to honour and serve , so accomplishing the mysterie of their iniquitie , unto assured damnation , if they turne not againe unto God .

This thing not being observed , how Christ beginneth in the world , and draweth men out of it into his church ; and Antichrist beginneth in the church , & draweth men out of it into the world againe , ( as the Dragons taile , draweth the starrs of heaven , & ●●fteth them to the earth , Rev. 12. 4. ) mine opposite thought it absurditie and contradiction in me , for writing thus ; * * Animad. pag. 80. When th Apostle therfore telleth us , that Antichrist sitteth as God in the Temple of God , it is to be vnderstood first of their invading and destroying of Gods church and people , as the heathens of old † † Psalm . 79. Dan. 8. 11. 13. & 11. ●6 . Ier. 52. ●2 . 13. Lam. ● . 7. 9. dealt with Jerusalem and dwellers therin : secondly of their owne vayne ostentation , whiles they will have it called the Christian catholik church , and th : Pope the head of the same . Vpon this , he thus inveigheth :

“ “ Chr. plea pag. 159. What have we here ? Doth himself now by the Temple of God vnderstand Gods church and people : yea such as was answerable to Ierusalem , and the dwellers therin of old ? why then hath he so eagerly oppugned us hereabout ? &c.

Answ. I oppugne the present church of Rome , which Antichrist destroyeth not , but buildeth and adorneth as an alluring harlot : the Christian church which was in Rome of old , that hath he invaded and destroyed long since ; for they then were * * Rom. 1. Saints , such as he hateth : these now are worshipers of him and of idols & † † Rev. 9. 20. & 18. 2. Divils ; and are an habitation of Divils . So there is as much difference between the church of Rome now , and the church then : as between the Bishop of Rome now , & the Bishops then : they were Christs ministers , this now is Antichrist , as mine opposite himself confesseth . And what cause hath he to insult , as if he had got the victorie ? Let wise men judge . But he proceedeth .

Obj. Where can he shew in the scriptures , that sitting is put for invading or destroying &c. Otherwhere stil he teatheth that by sitting is meant abiding , continuing , dwelling , &c.

What if I cannot prove that sitting is put for invading or destroying : Answ. if I prove my assertion by other words of the text , shall it not suffice ? The words Eiston Naon , into the Temple , may imply by a * * M●talepsis figure , his invading : and the person that invadeth being an enemy , a theef , a wolf , implyeth his destroying ; for our Saviour sayth , The theef cometh not but for to steale , and to kill , and to destroy . 1 Joh. 10. 10. The scripture often wanteth words , easy to be understood : so here Paul sayth of Antichrist , that he ( having entred ) into the Temple of God , sitteth as God . And if they regard not my exposition , they shall have his on whom they so much rely , Mr. Iunius I mean , who so explaineth it , saying , The testimonie of signe is this , that Invading the temple of God , he shal sit as God . Jun. Animad vers. in Bellarm. Controv. 3. l. 3. c. 14. not . 18. But what if I confirme it by the word sitting , which he thought so unlikely ? In Esai . 14. 13. the Prophet upbraideth the king of Babylon thus , Thou hast sayd in thine hart , J wil ascend into heaven &c. J wil sit also in the mount of the congregation , in the sides of the North ; meaning , mount Sion where Gods temple was . But this is meant of Nebuchadnezars invading of Ierusalem to spoile the same , as the historie sheweth , 2 King . 25. and in him , Antichrists tyrannie against the church was lively figured . As for sitting to mean continuing , though it doth so often times , yet not alwayes ; Christ sate upon the mount of Olives , Mat. 24. 3. the disciples sate in the house , Act. 2. 2. yet dwelt they not , or continued long there . And when the Babylonian invaded mount Sion to sit there , he continued not there , but having spoiled the citie , burned the Temple , and captived the people , he returned into Babylon , 2 King . 25. so Antichrist spoiling Christian churches returneth to his * * Revel. 17 whore of Babylon , his proper habitation , which he wickedly boasteth to be the Sion , Temple and church of God .

Wheras mine opposite expounded the Temple of God to be the church , and shewed not whether he meant a church particular , or general and catholik ; I sayd for a particular church , it wil not agree with the prophesies of Antichrist , whose citie or church is so great , as peoples , kinreds , tongues & nations , doe dwell in the streets therof , Rev. 11. 8. 9. He gainsayeth me thus :

† † Chr. ple ▪ p. 152. First , Still he calls that Antichrists church , which th' Apostle calleth the Temple of God .

Answ. It is his own interpretation , that the Temple meaneth the church ; and that he that sitteth in it is Antichrist ; and sitting he wil have to be continuing : and why may not I call that church wherin Antichrist sitteth continually as God , Antichrists church ; yea though it were indeed Gods church as he supposeth . Seing the citie wherin Christ did but dwell , was called his owne citie , Mat. 9. 1. And that which God sayth , in my house , and in my kingdom , 1 Chron. 17. 14. an other Prophet relateth it , thine house and thy kingdome , speaking to David the governour , 2 Sam. 7. 16. Or to shew a fitter similitude , as the holy Ghost calleth the Moabites the people of Chemosh , Numb . ●1 . 29. because they worshiped Chemosh for their God ; so the church of Rome which worshipeth Antichrist , is fitly called Antichrists church .

Object . How will he prove that the Beasts citie Rev 11. 8. is the temple of God , 2 Thes. 24.

Ans. It is himself that expoundeth the Templ ▪ to be the church ▪ and in special the Lateran church in Rome , where the Pope is parish priest . I shew by Rev. 11. 8. that the Popes parish is a larger citie or church then eyther that Lateran parish or Rome it self , even over many nations ; and so can not be a particular church such as Christ instituted ; but a new catholik church which the Pope hath devised , and would have it accounted the Temple and church of God . Here mine opposite , laboureth to finde a difference between the Beasts citie and his church : but all in vaine . For thus he reasoneth .

1. † † Chr. plea pag. 152. This citie in Rev. 11. 8. is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt , where also our Lord was crucified . But the church is here called the Temple of God , or the Court without the Temple , or the holy Citie .

Answ. First then he granteth that the same church may be called both a temple & a citie : so the diverse name helpeth him nothing . Secondly , it is true that Antichrists church is called Sodom and Egypt which was an whole countrie : let men now judge how fitly mine opposite hath confined Antichrists church within the Laterane parish , a corner in Rome . Shall we rather beleeve him , or the Holy Ghost ? Thirdly that is called the Holy citie , Rev. 11. 2. which the Gentiles ( the church of Antichrist ) tread under foot , as destroyed and wast : wheras the church of Antichrist is a great citie called Babylon , sumptuously builded , garnished , and by him mainteyned , Rev. 17. and that is the church of Rome at this day , as all know : and of the present church of Rome is now our controversie .

Obj. 2. This great citie is that where our Lord was crucified , Rev. 11. 8. Now all know that he was crucified in and vnder the jurisdiction of the citie , not of the church of Rome . For he was condemned by Pontius Pilate &c.

Answ. The thing he aimeth at , is that the citie mentioned in Rev , 11. 8. is a civil politie , as when Rome killed Christ ; and not an ecclesiastical politie or church . But he laboureth in the winde : for the citie is such as is the Beast or kingdome : the Beast is a spiritual politie most synful , for it commeth out of the bottomles pit , Rev. 11. 7. that is from the Divil ; wheras all Civil polities are from God , though they be heathens , Rom. 13. 1. 2. Secondly he should have knowen , that the same Citie which was a civil politie in Christs time , & killed him : is now subordinate to an ecclesiastical politie , church , or Papacie ; and stil crucifieth Christ in his members .

Obj. 3. This citie is that which was the Dragons throne , and by him given to the Beast , Revel. 13. 2. But this was the citie , not the church of Rome . Neyther J think wil these men themselves say , that the church was the Dragons throne , or was by the Dragon given to the beast .

Answ. The citie or politie which the Dragon gave to the Beast , was civil , but is now subjected to , or become ecclesiastical : for the citie of Rome is now by profession Christen , which of old was heathen : and by professed Christians ( namely the Pope & his church ) are those witnesses of God killed , Rev. 11. 7. 8. so their corpses lye unburied in the streets of the beasts citie , that is of Antichrists church or politie , which reacheth over many nations .

Obj. 4. This citie also is the throne of the Beast , and Babylon the great citie spoken of Rev. 16. 10. 19. & 17. & 18. chapt. which is to be understood of the citie of Rome and dominion therof .

Answ. It is granted that this citie is Babylon , and Rome , and the dominion therof : but it is a spiritual politie or church : for who hath dominion now of Rome , but the Pope or Bishop there , the pretended vicar of Christ ; and who but he hath killed those Martyrs , within his Diocese or Bishoprick , which reacheth over many kingdoms ?

Obj. 5. This citie is the woman that sitteth on seven-mountains , Reve. 17. 9. 18. And the citie , not the church of Rome , is built on 7. mountaines .

Answ. Yes , the same heathen citie which was first set on seven hills ; is now a pretended Christian citie , sitting still on her 7 hills : and being a Christian in name , hath killed Christ in his members , by her Popes power ecclesiastical , who hath his seat in her , but his Dragons pawes reach into farr countries . This citie , the woman on 7. hills , is shee that hath made the inhabiters of the earth drunk with the wine of her ●ornication , Rev. 17. 1. 2. &c. and who but the church of Rome hath doen this ?

Obj. 6. This citie hath 7. kings or kindes of government &c. by Kings , Consuls , Dictators , Decemvirs & Tribunes ( ceased before Johns time ) Emperours ▪ ( when Iohn lived ) and Popes ( not then come : ) But how should this be found in the church of Rome , which was not before Johns tyme ; and therfore could not have 5. Kings or kindes of government then fallen .

Answ. Ill doe they thrive , that kick against the pricks . Here himself confesseth the Popes goverment to be one of the seven : now the Popes goverment or papacie , is an ecclesiastical monarchie ; by it were the witnesses of Christ slayn , as before I shewed . As for seven goverments to be found in the church of Rome , that is in the papacie , is absurd ; for it is to seek 7. kindes of goverment in one . But six are gone and the seventh remayneth by the Pope . That citie or politie which once was heathen , now Christian in name ( Antichristian in deed ; ) which the Pope menageth : is the malignant church that killeth Gods witnesses , amongst peoples , kinreds , tongues and nations , Rev. 11. 8. 9. Therfore it can not be restreyned to one particular congregation .

Obj. 7. This citie is that which reigned over the kings of the earth in Johns time , Rev. 17. 8. And that not the church but the citie of Rome so reigned when John wrote , all doe acknowledge .

Answ. But , that the citie the church of Rome now reigneth by the Pope the head of that church , all doe acknowledge . And the killing of those witnesses Rev. 11. was not in Iohns time , but after , when the citie or politie of Rome was become Christian in name and title . To say , it was not so in Iohns time , therfore it is not so now ; is dallying , rather then sound reasoning .

Obj. 8. Finally , the Lord himself putteth difference between this citie Babylon , and his people therin , Rev. 18. 4. as of old , in Babylon of Chalde● . Ier. 50. &c.

Answ. This is true ; but what can he inferr thereupon ? It was not Gods people in Babylon , that killed those witnesses , Rev. 11. but it was Babylon that killed those witnesses , Gods people therin . Because Gods people killed not those witnesses , but the Beast in his catholik citie or church : therfore ( thinks he ) that citie of the beast , is not his church ; a fayre conclusion .

Obj. † † Chr. plea ag. 154. Note here , that by the great citie , is meant not onely the citie it self , but the whole jurisdiction , authority and dominion therof , how farr soever extended .

Answ. It is a good note , and worth the marking : for the great citie being the church of Rome , as before is proved ; it followeth , that the extents of that church , reach further then the materiall walls of Rome , even to all nations that are of the Popes religion : and therfore to bound it within the Lateran parish of Rome , is to restreyn that which God sheweth to be more large . It were a happy day , if the Popes unruly power , were limited within the Lateran parish , and his jurisdiction reached no further . But he must have a larger scope to range in yet a while : and weak warriers are they against him , that plead for his whorish church of Rome , that it is the true church of Christ , and under his covenant of grace . It is the thing that the Pope would most gladly have proved : and I am well assured , Babylon wil not fall , til it be otherweise battered .

Obj. † † Chr. plea pag. 154. Where yet observe further , that the church of Rome , being fallen into deep apostasie , and having the man of syn sitting ther in as God , who hath that citie for his throne : the things that are spoken of this citie , are also applied to the apostate estate of that church of Rome , and the other churches that are under the jurisdiction of the prelacie of that Sea , whersoever , and of whatsoever people , kinred , tongue or nation they be : &c. But shall wee therfore conclude , that by the Temple of God , 2 Thes. 2. 4. may not be understood the church of God ?

Answ. How glorious is the trueth , that forceth those to yeild , that fight against it . His former reasons ( that by the Citie in Rev. ●1 . 8. the church was not meant , ) he now frustrateth himself . But still he cleaveth to his first plea , The temple of God 1 Thes. 2. is the church of God . I may answer hereto , as God by Ieremy did to the Iewes , Trust not in lying words , saying , The temple of the Lord , the temple of the Lord , the temple of the Lord are these : Ier. 7. 4. Our dispute is , in what sense Paul calleth it the Temple of God ; whether as the true temple builded by Solomon , or as the false temple builded in Samaria by the Apostate Israelites , which the Prophet calleth the house of their God , Amos 2. 8. as the Apostle calleth this the Temple of God . Now faine he would have this Romish temple of apostate Papists , to be the true temple of God ; and that they notwithstanding their deep apostasie , are Gods true church , under his covenant : which I deny , and have before disproved ; and Paul in the very same place , counteth them among those that perish , for beleeving lyes , & which shal be damned for not beleeving the trueth , 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. 12. and Christ teacheth , that being worshipers of the beast , their names are not written in the book of l●fe . Rev. 13. 8. & 17. 8. but they shal be tormented in fyre and brimstone for ever , Revel. 14. 9. 10. 11. and that the whorish church Babylon the great , the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth , which is drunken with the blood of the Saincts and of the martyrs of Jesus shal be destroyed for ever , Rev. 17. 5. 6. & 18. 21. And who now , that have not their right eye blinded , wil not rather say , it is the Samaritans Temple , then Solomons ; though in pretence and colour , the Temple of God . And seing every true church now , is a particular congregation in one place ; but the church of Rome is a new found catholik church , spred over many nations under one head & Bishop the Pope : it can not possibly be Christs true church , having neyther the constitution , faith , worship , ministerie , order or ordinances of Christ ; but of his enemie Antichrist .

Wheras I formerly wrote , * * Animadv . ●g . 78. Neyther is that ( if they meane a particular church ) answerable to the Temple in Israel , which was not for one synagogue , but for † † Deut. 16. 16. the whole nation of the Iewes , and for the ‘* ‘* 1 King . 8. ● . 4● . Ioh. ● . 20. Act. 8. 27. Gentiles that came to the faith , through the world . To this he sayth ;

*‘ *‘ Chr. plea ●g. 155. How greatly forgets he himself , and how presently , seing but a line before he sayd , the Temple figured not onely the catholik or universal church , Ephe. 2. 21. but also every particular church by proportion , 1 Corint. 3. 16. 17. And may we not then apply it to that wherof it was a figure ? &c.

Answ. No : for mine opposite granteth that the Temple was primarily a figure Christ : but so to apply it in this place , 2 Thes. 2. himself thinketh not fit . I deny not , but some where it may and ought to be so applyed : but considering that the Temple of God wherin Antichrist now sitteth is a catholik church spred over many nations , ( as was prophesied Rev. 11. 8. 9. ) I think the applying of Pauls words in 2 Thes. 2. to a particular church , is neyther fitting to the type , nor to the prophesie , nor to the accomplishment of it which we see at this day . The priests in Israel figured Christ chiefly , secondarily Christians , Rev. 1. 6. But to apply those things which Paul speaketh of the Priests in Heb. 10. 11. 12. to us Christians , were not onely unfitting , but heretical .

Obj. * * Pag. 156. The Candlesticks and Lamps were set in the Temple of God : and the church of Rome was a golden Candlestick , as well as the rest of the primitive churches ; and this man himself sayth definitely † † Animadv . pag. 103. the true churches were many of them apostate when John wrote ; whom yet notwithstanding Christ acknowledgeth to be Rev. 1. 11. 2. 20. & ● . 1. golden candlesticks . In any of which , of Antichrist had sit , as in the church of Rome , I suppose this man would not deny , but his sitting then should have been in the Temple of God : whether it were considered as a particular candlestick it self , or a branch of the great & general candlestick &c.

Answ. 1. If the Candlesticks were churches in the Temple the church : then the Temple in such respect is the catholick church , for one particular church is not in an other . 2. I grant that the church of Rome was a golden candlestick in th' Apostles time : and I think mine opposite would not deny but then also the Bishop of Rome , was a * * Rev. 1. 20. starr in Christs right hand . But now the Bishop is a starr fallen from heaven , and acknowledged to be Antichrist : why then may not the church be fallen with him , ( as Paul forewarned , Rom. 11. 22. ) and the candlestick removed from it , as wel as from Ephesus , Rev. 2. 5. except Rome have a privilege above all other cities , because it crucified Christ . 3. I grant also that the true churches apostate in Rev. 2. & 3. were still golden candlesticks , though some of them rustie : but I would have it likewise graunted me , that there were other churches but copper candlesticks , though they pretended to be golden ; namely such Antichristian haeretical synagogues , as of whom it might be sayd , They went out from us , but they were not of us , 1. Joh. 2. 18. 19. And if those petty Antichrists were no golden candlesticks ; much less can the great Antichrist with his synagogue , be a golden candlestick ; for he farr exceedeth them in idolatrie , heresie and impietie . That Antichrist could sit in any true church then , as he sitteth now in the church of Rome , namely as God , and so to be beleeved with his lyes , worshiped , and obeyed ; I utterly deny : for that church that so doeth , departeth from Christ the foundation , and denyeth both the Father and the Son , 1 Ioh. 2. 22. 23. and whether it be a particular church , or a more general , it skilleth not : universalitie in worshiping the Beast , causeth but universalitie of damnation , Rev. 13. 16. 17. & 14 ▪ 9. 10. 11.

Obj. Wheras he would be taught how that whorish company that worship the Beast and Dragon , can be the true catholik church and spouse of Christ : though that which J noted before be sufficient for the point in hand ; yet let him first remember , how but a litle before he told us , the catholik church of the now Romish religion , as themselves describe it , hath one part therof on earth , an other under the earth , & a third part in heaven : and now here he speaketh onely of such as are on earth , and those also such as worship the Dragon and beast , Rev. 13. 4. wheras the catholik church in deed conteyneth all churches & people of God from the beginning of the world &c.

Answ. By this then it appeareth , that the church of Rome lyeth apparantly , when she calleth her self the catholik church : and therfore is not the true church or Temple of God . But I would be taught in deed , how that whorish company here on earth which worship the Beast , can be the true church eyther universall or particular .

Here first he asketh whither I think there was no other churches of Christians catholik or particular wherin Antichrist sate since th' apostasie of the man of syn , but such as worshiped the Dragon and the beast ? And who then were the Tabernacle and those that dwelt in heaven , whom the beast blasphemed , and the saintes with whom he made warr 42. monethes , Rev. 13. 5. 6. 7. and of what church they were &c.

Answ. He seemeth to use the word sit in two senses ; 1. for oppressing , blaspheming , killing the Saincts that resisted Antichrist ; and 2. for quiet governing and having in subjection the wicked that beleeve and obey him : with such aequivocations his writings are too full . Such churches or persons as resisted the beast , and whom he blasphemed and killed : they were of God ; and of them there is no question . But the other sort given over of God to beleeve lyes , and to worship the man of syn as God , like as he sheweth him self that he is God ; they are not the true church of God , catholik or particular : and of such is the present church of Rome , now i● question . As for the Saincts that dwell in heaven , whom Antichrist blasphemeth : they are where he is no● ▪ in the true church out of which he is gone , both he and his ; and therfore doth he persecute them . The scripture by him cite● , Rev. 13. 6. yieldeth a strong argument against his purpose , thus . The true Tabernacle , church and heavenly people , are blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist . The church of Rome now , is not blasphemed and warred against by Antichrist , but blessed commended & mainteyned . Therfore the church of Rome now , is not the true tabernacle , church or heavenly people .

Obj. Jerusalem came to be a * * Ezek. 16. 2. 35. &c. & 23. 2 . -43 . &c. h●●l●t , old in adulteries , and the Jewes to be a † † Esa. 1. 4. 5. &c. synfull nation laden with iniquitie &c. “ “ Esa. 57. 3. 4. 5. sonns of the sorceress , the seed of ●he adulterer and the wh●re ; a *‘ *‘ Esa. 65. 2. 3. &c. rebellious people &c “ “ 2 Chron. 36. 14. &c. transgressing after all the abominations of the heathens and polluting the house of the Lord , &c. yet they were stil notwithstanding the citie , people and temple of the Lord . Esai . 1. 3. & 3. 12. with Ier. 50. 28. & 51. 11 35. 36. 45. 50. 51.

Answ. One findeth a dead and stinking carkess of a man ; and to prove it a living man he sayth , Such an one was so and so diseased , he had the burn●ng ague , the palsie , dropsie , the gangrene & the plague : yet was he a living man , therfore this is likewise . Such is the mould of mine opposites argument . For the Papists the worshipers of the Beast are sayd of God to be dead men , Rev. 20. 4. ● . not partakers of the first resurrection ; that is , * * Eph. 2. 1. dead in syn , not revived by Christ : now to prove them alive , examples of other persons and peoples of Israel are alleaged ; who because they were great synners , but not dead in syn , therfore these dead men under Antichrist , must be living also . He hath been answered , that the Iewes whiles they continued Gods Church though greatly corrupted , are not fit resemblances of Antichrists church which the holy Ghost calleth no where Iudea , but Babylon , Rev. 17.

Wheras I sayd , † † Animadv pag. 79. The very word Temple ( speaking of that wherin Antichrist sitteth as God , ) leadeth us to understand Antichrists church to be but a counterfeit : shewing this reason , that the Temple in Israel was not the church or people properly , but a sacramentall signe of Gods dwelling with his people , 2 Chron. 6. 2. and of his inward dwelling in their harts by faith , Eph. 3. 17. & 2. 22. so Antichrists temple is an outward shew of his presence with that seduced people , in whose harts he dwelleth by popish faith , and by his spirit of error carying them to damnation : &c. Rev. 13. 4. 14. & 16. 14. 1 Tim. 4. 1. 2 Thes. 2. 10. 11. He answereth ,

* * Chr. plea pag. 158. Then when th' Apostle sayth to the church of Corinth , ye are the Temple of God , 1 Cor. 3 16. his meaning should be according to this glose , ye are a counterfeit church . And when Christ sayd , Destroy this Temple , Joh. ● . 19. speaking of his bodie ; the word Temple should lead us to understand Christs body to be but a counterfeyt .

Would any man of good understanding and affection have made such inferences upon my words ? Doth not the very word God , when it is spoken of Baal , and of images made with mens hands , lead us to understand them to be but counterfeyt gods : or would any adversary , if I had so spoken of Baal and the word God which is applied unto him by the Prophet , 1 King . 18. 27. have wrested my reason against the true God ? But sundry such abuses I beare , and forbeare to reply unto ; because my opposite cannot now heare his reproof : and to other men it would be fruitless .

Hetherto of th' Apostles phrase , the Temple of God . Now touching the Man of syn there also spoken of , mine opposer in the second proposition of his argument fore-set downe , sayth . But the Pope of Rome with his hierarchie , is ( by † † Animadv p. 76 . -106 ▪ their own graunt ) the man of syn , of whom the Apostle here speaketh . Other proof of this position he giveth none , but sayth I grant it ; which in his understanding I have not granted . For he so divideth the Pope and hierarchie , ( which are * * Con●ll ▪ Trident. sess ▪ 23. can. 6. Bishops , Priests , and Deacons , ) from the church of Rome , as he maketh the one , Antichrist and Man of syn : the other Christians , and men of grace ; which how it can be , when both parties are of one and the same faith , worship , religion &c. it passeth my slender capacitie . For if the Bishops priests and deacons have one faith & religion with the people , as it is knowen they have ; and the people have the true Christian faith and religion , though corrupted , yet so as they are still under the covenant of grace , and sealed of God therin by baptisme : how should not the same faith give life to the priests or hierarchie , as it doeth to the people ? And then , though the hierarchie be Antichrist , the Man of syn , the son of perdition , who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God , or that is worshiped , 2 Thes. 2. 3. yet they shall also be true Christians , men of God , and children of salvation .

Now to prove it to be my graunt , he sendeth his reader to 30. pages of my book at once ; that if he myss it in one , he may suppose it is in an other , for not one man of many , wil read over so many leaves , for such a purpose onely . Well , howsoever I wil not make nice to call the Pope and his hierarchie , the Man of syn ; yea or the Pope alone , the man of syn , because he is the head of that sinfull corporation , and the highest exalted for almightynes & holynes : yet doe I not exclude the people from this body , and give it to the Pope and hierarchie onely , as mine opposite would intimate . Nay the reader shall finde there the contrary , most expressly : for in pag. 76. I wrote thus . The Antichristian synagogue , is by the holy Ghost called a Beast , Rev. 13. 11. which signifieth a kingdome , Dan. 7. 23. it is named also a great citie , Rev. 11. 8. which noteth the largenes of that politie and kingdom . Jt cometh up out of the earth , Rev. 13. 11. as being of this world , ( which Christs kingdom , that cometh down from heaven Rev. 21. 2. is not : ) and therfore it is called a Man of syn , 2 Thes. 2. 3. and a great whore , Rev. 17. 1. whose head is Abaddon or a Apollyon , Rev. 9. 11. the destroyer of others , and himself the son of perdition , 2 Thes. 2. 3. and they that folow him , are the children of damnation , 2 Thes. 2. 12. Againe in pag. 83. I doe not onely shew mine , but mine opposers owne judgment heretofore saying ; She ( speaking of the church of Rome ) being in this forlorne estate , she is but a lump of syn , a man of syn , 2 Thes 2. 3. a child of perdition . The Beast is not one person , but a kingdom , Rev. 13. 11. Dan. 7. 23. and Mr. Iohnson himself hath acknowledged more then once , that the man of syn , is the false church ( and religion ) of Antichrist , compared to the body of a man , and consisting of all the partes togither . Treat ▪ of the Minist. against Mr. Hilders . p. 7. Apolog. p. 109.

How faithfully now myne opposite hath dealt with me , to make it seem my graunt that the Pope and hierarchie apart from the church of Rome , is the Man of syn , all may see . As for his own former confession , he passeth it over , without approving or disproving what himself hath written .

This point is of weight , to give light to our controversie , for if the whole church , Pope , priests and people , be altogither a man of syn , & son of perdition ; then can not any of sound judgment , think they are a true Christian church , or under the covenant of Gods grace .

To shew this therfore ; first , the scriptures sundry times speaketh of a whole state or company , both governours and people , as of one person , man , woman , or child : as in Hos 1. 4. 6. 9. the three children Iezreel , Lo-ruhamah , and Lo-ammi , signified the three estates of the congregation of Israel , then shortly to follow . So in Rev. 12. 1. a woman signifieth the church of Christ ; in Rev. 17. an other woman signifieth , the church of Antichrist ; even as in Prov. 9. 1. 13. the same churches are set forth like two women , Wisdom , and the Foolish woman . In Rev. 12. 5. the Man child which the woman brought forth , meaneth a company of valiant Christians ; as further appeareth by comparing Esai . 66. 7. 8. where the Woman that travelleth , is called Sion ; and the man child in vers. 7. are called Sions children in vers. 8. Secondly , as Christ and Antichrist have their several churches , so these ech of them are called a man : as in Ephes. 2. 15. Christ is there sayd to make in himself , of twaine ( that is , of two peoples , Iewes and Gentiles ) one new man : where the whole church togither with Christ their head , is called a new man . Accordingly , Antichrist the Pope , togither with his whole church , is called the man of syn . And as in the new man the true Christian church , Christ the head hath in all things the preheminence : so in the man of syn , the Antichristian church , the Pope ( Christs pretended vicar ) hath in all things the preeminence , exalted for power & pretended holynes . As the new man the Christian church , is to be esteemed in the state of salvation , though some secret hypocrites and reprobates closely creep in among them here on earth : so the man of syn the Antichristian church , is to be estemed in the state of † † 2 Thes. 2. 10. 12. damnation , though some of Gods elect and hidden ones are in the same , Rev. 18. 4. And this man of syn the Pope and his church , sitteth in the Temple of God , the profession of Christ ( whom the Temple chiefly figured ) and of Christian religion and worship , ( even as this beast or kingdome hath two hornes like the Lamb Christ , Rev. 13. 11. ) that so under the shew of Christianitie , after the effectual working of Satan , with all power and signes and lying wonders ( 2 Thes. 2. 9. Rev. 13. 13. 14. ) he may deceive them that dwell on the earth , and draw them into the lake of fyre . Thus much of the Man of syn sitting in the Temple of God . 2 Thes. 2.

Other scriptures he * * Chr. plea 125. 126. alleageth to confirme his cause , as Manasses defiling Gods house , 2 King . 21. the Chaldeans defiling the Temple , Psalm . 79. the king of Babylons sitting on the mount of the congregation , Esai . 14. The prophets visions of the Temple polluted , Ezek 8. And the prophesie of Antiochus , Dan. 11. In all which places , I acknowledge the true Temple of God , to be understood . But his error in applying this to his purpose , I have before manifested . For that Temple was not the people , but an outward ordinance of God set among his people : wheras in his understanding the Temple of God , wherin Antichrist sitteth is the people . 2. That Temple was not infected with syn , but the syn rested in the persons that worshiped in it , or came into it ; as I shewed before , from Levit. 16. 16. Wheras the church of Rome is so infected with Antichrists syn , as mine opposite confesseth it to be † † Chr. plea ●ag. 120. in most synfull and deep apostasie , and so to be a notorious harlot and idolatress which all the people of God ought to forsake . 3. That temple merely suffred that misusage at the hands of synners , Iewes and Gentiles : even as Christ , the true Temple in his humanitie , & true Christians his members have suffred , at the hands of the Romans , of old heathens and now Antichristians . But to make that temple a type of this malignant church , which togither with her head the Pope , persecuteth Christ and his saincts , and worshipeth creatures , idols and * * Rev. 9. 20. Divils ; is altogither amyss . For so we might conclude thus : As the Temple of God though it were defiled with the apostasie & idolatrie of the Iewes and of the Gentiles , with how great abomination soever ; yet continued Gods holy Temple still ; and could not by any impietie become the Temple of Antichrist or of Satan : so the church of Rome , though it should be defiled with apostasie idolatrie prophanenesse atheisme eyther of Antichrist or of Iewes Turks or Pagans ; if it should beleeve and receive the religion of Maomet or of Iulian the Apostata ; yet should it continue the true church and people of God , and under his covenant of grace . Behold what favour the church of Rome hath found above all churches under heaven : that if she receive Iudaisme or Paganisme , if she worship the Beast ; the Dragon , or Divil himself by open profession , yet the abideth the church of God : for if Antiochus who set up Iupiter Olympius image in the Temple , had set up also the professed worship of the Divil ; yet the Temple should have been Gods holy temple notwithstanding ; and so by proportion the church of Rome must be , if this comparison of mine opposites be true . By such doctrine , the whole gospel of Christ is overthrowne . For faith and sanctimonie of life , are the summe of all the gospell : and both of them are destroyed . For though Rome be apostate and departed from the faith , as Paul foretold , 1 Tim. 4. 1. though she beleeve in a wafer cake , and worship it for her God and maker : though she beleeve to have forgivenes of synns , by the abominable massing sacrifice of her priests , by the pardons and indulgences of her popes , and to merit salvation in heaven , by wicked works which she doeth , being taught by the Man of syn : though she have many thousands of new Gods and new Christs , even so many as there be Angels and saincts in heaven , and moe too : though she be as filthy in life as Sodom , as idolatrous & malignant against Gods people as were Egypt and Babylon , ( unto which the holy Ghost hath compared her , Rev 11. 8. & 14. 8. ) yet so long as she wil say to Christ , but as the Divil sayd , Thou art Christ the son of God , Luke 4. 41. that is , so long as she reteyneth the profession of Christianitie ; she is the Temple of God , the church of Christ , and under the covenant of salvation .

But he that justifieth the wicked is an abomination to the Lord , Prov. 16. 15. and woe unto them that say concerning evil , it is good , Esa. 5. 20. Can not men put difference between Gods ordinances given unto a people , & the people : themselves that injoy , use or abuse those ordinances ? The Temple was an ordinance given unto Israel , as were the altars and sacrifices therin : so God gave unto all the world by Noe , commandements for altars and sacrifices , Gen. 8. 20. unto Abraham he commanded circumcision , unto Christians baptisme , the Supper of Christ &c. All Gods ordinances continue in themselves holy , ( till God doe abrogate them , ) though men that abuse them , fall to be most unholy , and without God in the world . So the sacrifices of sheep and Oxen were in themselves Gods holy ordinances , howsoever abused by the Iewes in Ierusalem , by the Israelites in Samaria , and by the heathens in their severall lands : so circumcision , though profaned by the Sichemites Gen. 34. so baptisme and the Lords supper , though turned by Antichrist into abominable idols ; remayned and doe remaine in themselves Gods holy ordinances , though men have abused them to their damnation : so the Sun moon and starrs continued Gods good creatures , though men made idols of them to themselves . To reason therfore from the creatures and ordinances , unto men which abuse them ; and to gather because the creature or ordinance abideth good in it self , therfore the person that abuseth it , abideth good also : or to wrest a type , as mine opposite doeth , from a creature or ordinance of old , to a most synfull people now , and make them alike holy ; is an high abuse of Gods ordinances , and a taking of his name in vaine .