I do geue God moste harty thankes , that ye are come so sone this mornynge . For I haue many hard and doubtfull questions , to setforthe now vnto you , which haue troubled my mynde very sore . My minde was , because that yesterday we did talk of praying for the dead , where I dyd learne that all the good deedes and prayers that are done and made for them , that was don in the huntinge of purgatory vnto death . that be once departed and gon , be nothing auaileable before God , nor yet profitable vnto them , that they be done & made for : to haue asked you , whether we ought to pray vnto the dead or not , and to call vpon them in our necessities and troubles . For my gentle men did tell me , that we oughte to praye vnto the deade sainctes , as vnto the blessed Virgyne Mary , the holy Apostles and martirs , and that by them our prayers are the soner hard , and accepted of God ours heauenly father . But now wyl I differ that matter til an other time , wh●… we shal haue more leasure , and brin● forthe the questions , that haue troubled me so muche , and specially se● ye went away from me yester nyg●

We woulde b● glad to know , brother Albion , what is that troubleth your minde so sore For ye shall vnderstande , that we ar● here most ready to helpe and ease yo● of your trouble , if it can be possib● by any meane . But wer it not best to pray fyrst vnto hym that sayeth . Come vnto me all ye that laboure and are laden and I wil ease you ? Math. xi .

your counsayle is very good . And therfore I do not doubt , but that our brother . Albion and our neyghbour Dydimus wyl agree vnto it .

Hys counsell in this , as in al other things is so good and godly , that whosoeuer would not folow it , I would compte hym worse than a Sarazin or a Turke .

Syth then , brother Philalethes , that we be also godly agreed begynne when ye shall thinke best .

O almighty and most merciful lord , The praier . in whom all treasures of heauenly wisedome , & godly knowledge are hydden , vouchafe , we ●eseche the , to open oure mindes , & to illuminate oure hartes , that vnderstanding the mysteries conteined in thy holy word , we may be able at al times to stop the mouthes of that vngodly blasphemers of thy diuine and heauenly ordenaunces graunt this , o most bountuous & merciful lord , for the glory of thy name sake .

Truely brother Albion , these questions are very hard & can not be discussed , except we do intreat fully of predestination , and of the deuine prouidence of god , wherwith he doth gouern , rule , & dispose al things here in this world , euen at hys owne pleasure , & as he thinketh it expedient for his own glory , and for the saluation of his elect & chosen .

M● thinke , A common obiection of the papistes . brother Philalethes , that this matter of Predestination , doth far pass●… the capacity of mans wyt , & that it is t● much presumption to medel with such high secretes & misteries of almighty god .

It is without al doubt that this matter of Predestination is both hard , and also somwhat perillous , To whome the Doctrine of Predestinatyon is pearilous specially if men wil wade so far in it , whiche mani times cometh of a folish curiosity of mind , which is neuer contented nor satisfied with these thinges that be reueled & setforth vnto vs in the holy scriptures & sacred word of almighty God our heauenly father , but wil styll clime vp hier and hier , and leaue none of the seacrets of god vnserched . Therfore it is no maruail , that such men sith that they do so rashly and presumptuously breake into the vnserchable secreates of gods wisedome , do bring them selues into an endlesse perplexity , from the which they can neuer be deliuered , but shal in their consciences & mindes be miserably tormented al the daies of their life , & neuer come to the knowledge of the truth . Therfore it is good for al men to consider the God hath reueled , opened , & declared vnto vs in his holy & sacred worde , al those seacreats that he wil haue vs to know : and so much wyl he haue vs to know , as hee dyd forsee and thinke expedient for oure saluation . We are , saith S. Augustin come into the way of faith . Let vs stedfastly kepe it . August . in the .xxxv. homelye vpon Iohn . It shal bring vs into the kinges chamber , wherein all treasures of knowledge and wysdome are hidden . For the Lord Christ hym selfe , dyd not enuye hys greate and chosen disciples , when he did say . I haue many thinges to say vnto you but ye are not hable to bear them now . We muste walcke , we muste go forewardes , we must encrease and grow , that oure heartes maye be able to receiue those thinges , that we be not able to receiue now . And if the last day do fynde vs goyng forewardes , ther shal we learne the thinges that we coulde not learne here . If we coulde be once perswaded that the worde of God is the only way and meane , we ought to contente ourselues with goddes word for to seke and searche out those thinges that he will haue to be knowen of hym , and the only lyght , for to see , what so euer he will haue to be seene of hym , then should no such rashnesse take place in vs . For we shoulde see that assone as we be once passed the limites & boundes of Goddes word , we must neades runne oute of the waye , and wander in darcknesse , where of necessytye we muste neades erre , stumble , and fall downe euerye fote . Where we ought to seke for the doctrine of predestination . Let vs therefore haue this lesson alwayes before oure eies , that to seke for any other knowledge of predestination , than is sette forth vnto vs in Gods worde , it is no lesse madnes , than if a man wold run through nine wals , or se in the thicke darknes that Egipt was plaged with al. And let vs not be ashamed to be ignarant in those thinges , that god wil haue vs be ignoraunte in . Yea let vs gladly abstain from searching oute of those thinges , which can not be searched and sought out wythoute greate pearil & ieoperdy . And if the wantonnesse of our wit will not so be repressed & kept downe , let vs cal into oure remembrance , the saying of the wyse man . wher he saith : Pro. xxv . Eccle. iii. chapiter . he that searcheth out the maiestye of God shal be ouerwhelmed with the glory of it . And again : Seke not out the things that are aboue thy capacity , & search not the ground of such things , as are so mighty for thee . But loke what soeuer god hath commanded the , think vpon that alwai , & be not curious in mani of his worke , for it is not nedeful for thee to se with thine eyes the things that are secret .

Forsoth , this is the cause , In the vi . Articles . that some men wil haue no mention at al to be made of predestination : yea ther haue ben lawes and statutes made here tofore , that whosoeuer did dispute or write of it , he shuld be taken for an heretyke . Whiche , me thincke was against al reason , syth that the scriptures do forbyd no man to speake of it , so that it be don with due submission & reuerence , and with such sobriety as is requyred in high matters of religion .

In this thing thei haue gon to much on the rightsyde . For as they be prayse worthye in this , that they wil not haue men to go rashly about such hie misteries & secretes of almightye God : so are they greatly to blame , that they wil not suffer vs to goe and wade as far as the sacred word of god , wherein we haue 〈◊〉 moste sure rule of vnderstanding , doth lead vs . For we must vnderstand that the holi scripture is the schole of the holy gost , The holy scrypture is the schole of the holy gost . and that as in it nothing is omitted or left vntaught , that is profitable and necessary to be known , so nothing is setforth ther but that it is most fruteful and profitable to be learned . What so euer therfore , the scriptures do setforth and say , of predestination , let vs beware that we kepe not the faithful from it : least we seme ether malitiously to defraude them of so high a benefit of the lord their god , or to accuse the holy ghost , as though he had set fourth and published things , which it had bene better to kepe close . Let vs , I saye , permit Christen men to geue bothe their eares and mindes vnto all the scriptures and wordes of God , so that it be done with moderation , that assone as the Lord shal stop his holy and sacred mouth , they do al so cease to enquyre and search any farther . This is the best mesure or mean that we canne keepe , if in learnynge we do folow God for our schoolemaster & teacher not desyring to be wiser than he wyll haue vs to be .

Obiection Yet can I not see , that any thinge can either he sayed or wrytten of predestination , but that some men wyll alwayes take occasion thereupon , to deryde , scorne , and blaspheme the most blessed and holy mysteryes or secreates of almyghty God . Therfore , for auoydinge of suche vngodly blasphemyes , and scornfull derisions of prophane and worldely men , after my iudgemente it were better to suppresse all that whole matter , and to speake or write nothinge of it .

Answer . Prophane and carnall men wyll take no lesse occasion to blaspheme when they shall heare that there bee thre persons and one God , Nothing is left vnblasphemed of the vngodly . than when they shall reade or heare that God dyd forsee what shuld become of manne , afore he dyd create hym . What will they thinke or saye , I praye you , when they shall vnderstande that it is but a litle more than fyue thousand yeares a goo sens the worlde was made ? Wyll they not bothe scornefullye and also blasphemouslye aske what God dyd all that whyle affore ? and why his power and vertu was idle and vnoccupied so longe ? What shall ye be able to saye or to writte , but that they will take occasion vpon it , to blaspheme God and his works ? Shal we not therfore saye that oure sauiour Iesus Christ , Of this haue I written in my worke against the Arrians and the Macedonians . the onlye begotten sonne of God is true and naturall God , and the holy ghoste , who proceadeth from them bothe , likewise ? Shall al that is written of the creation of the worlde , for auoidinge of suche vngodly blasphemyes be hidden from the faythfull ? The false Aposteles that toke occasion vpon Pauls preachinges and sermons , to blaspeme the mysterie of our redemption , coulde not stoppe hys mouth , nor make him to be a shamed of the gospell of oure sauioure Iesu Christ . The verity and truth of God , bothe in this and in all other thinges is so mightye and stronge , that it nedeth not to feare the euill tonges of the vngodly .

I do wel alow your sayings hetherto . And therfore I wil desire you to go forwardes in this matter , and to declare vnto vs , what ye do vnderstande by predestination . For it is a thinge that I am very desirous to know .

Some men paraduenture wil thinke , The fore knoweledge of God . that it were best to speake first of the foreknowledge of god , whereby he knoweth all thynges afore that they be done , or whereby all thynges that are , haue bene , and shall be , are presente vnto hym ( for , vnto the knowledge of god all things are most presently present , nothinge is passed , nothinge is to come ) Some men , I say , wil thinke that we should speake of this foreknowledge of god , er we come to the matter of Predestination . But syth that they be so ioyntlye ioyned together , that it is impossible for any man to entreate of the one , but that he must entreate of the other also , hauing geuen alredy a brief & short definition of it , which may suffise for this time , I wil come to Predestination , & shew , what because that Esaye the Prophet had sayed : Iohn . xii . he hath blynded theyr eyes , and hardened theyr hartes , that they should not see with their eyes , nor vnderstande with their hartes , least they shoulde be conuerted , and so be healed .

As farre as I can remember , my gentyll men did tel me , Obiection that God doth ordayne them vnto saluation , whose merites he dothe forsee . For syth that he knoweth all things afore that they be done , it can not be but that he doth forsee how euery man shall vse hys giftes . And according to this fore knowledge that he hath of all men generallye , euen afore that they be begotten and borne , whereby he foreseeth who they be , that wyl receiue his woord and folowe his commaundementes , and who they be that wyll not , he doeth determine and appoynte to saue some men , and some agayne to condemne and cast awaye . Them doth he determine to saue , whome he knoweth before , wil receaue hys grace , and liue accordinge to hys word and commaundements . And them doth he appoynt and ordaine vnto deathe and condempnation , whom he knoweth before wil not receiue his grace , nor liue according to his blessed law and commaundements . And for the probation of this , they did bring in , that place which ye aledged fyrst out of Sainte Paule to the Romaines , where it is thus wrytten : Rom. viii Whome he knew before , them dyd he also ordain before &c. Meaning ther by , say they , that whome he knew before , wold receiue his grace and the Gospel of his sonne Iesu Christe , them he did also ordain to be fashioned like vnto the shape of his only begotten sonne . Moreouer they dyd tel me , that almost in al ages , many great learned men haue bene of this opinion . Aunswer

I do not deny but that at all times , some , euen of the best learned , haue maintained this opinion : which thynge neuerthelesse ought in no wise to be preiudicial vnto vs . For in this , the truth of god is so sure that it can not be shaken , and so cleare that it can not be darckned , or ouerwhelmed wyth the authoryty of men . When S. Paule doth affirme and say that we were chosen in Christe Iesu , Ephe , i. afore that the foundations of the world wer laide , he taketh a way al respect of our owne dignity & worthinesse . For , it is as much as if he shuld say : because that our heauenly father , could find nothing in al the hole sede of Adam , that was worthy of his election , he dyd caste his eies vpon his holy annoynted , that so he mighte chuse , as it were , certayne members of hys bodye , whome he should call to the partaking and felowship of lyfe euerlasting . Let therfore , al the faythful be perswaded , that we are for this one only cause chose in Christ , for to bee heyres of the heauenlye kingedome , because that in oure selues there was no manner of thynge , that could haue moued God , for to electe and chuse vs : because , I say , that there was no maner of thing in vs , that coulde deserue any such thinge at his handes . Which thing the Apostle dothe also singnifye in an other place , where he exhortethe the Collossyans vnto thankes geuing , Collo . i. because that God had made them mete to be partakers of the inherytaunce of the Saintes . If election dothe , doth go before this grace of the Lorde , that we may be made mete to obtayne the glory of life euerlastinge , what shal God , I pray you finde in vs , that shoulde moue him to elect and chuse vs ? But the whole sentence , being throughly rehersed , I mene , as it lieth in the text , wil make the matter so playn , that the moste ignorant in the world , if they wil take a litle hede , shal be able to geue iudgement of the mater , & to vnderstand al the truth of it . God , saith the hol●… apostle , Ephes i. Although we be chosen in Christ , afore the foundations of the worlde wer layd , whereof we be assured by his word and spirit yet muste we beware that we geue not oure selues to vnclenelynesse . i. Tim. i. hath chosen vs in christ Iesu , afore that the foundations of the world wer laied , that we should be holye , and withoute blame before him through loue . And hath ordained vs before through Iesu Christ , to be heyers vnto him selfe , accordinge to the pleasure of his wil , to the prayse of the glory of his grace , wherewith he hathe reconciled or made vs accepted in the beloued . Here doth he set the good pleasure of God , against al our merites . For wher so euer this good pleasure of god doth raigne , there can no workes or merites take place , as it appeareth more plainly by that , whiche he writeth vnto Timothe , sayinge : He hath saued and called vs , with an holy calling not according to our dedes , but accordinge to his owne purpose and grace , whiche grace was geuen vs through Christ afore the worlde was made .

Me thinke that where the Apostle sayeth : that we are chosen in Christ Iesu , for to be holy and blamelesse in hys sighte , the same alone wer ynoughe for to ouerthrow al that they can bring . Paules sayinge , being wel considered doth ouer throwe the enemies of the free election of god . For if we should saye that god did chuse vs , because that he did forsee that we shuld be holy & blamelesse , then could not the saying of Paule stand . Therefore , we may bodelye reason after this maner : yf god did chuse vs for to be holy & blamelesse in his sight , truely he did not chuse vs because that he did forsee , that we shoulde be holye and blamelesse . For , these two are vtterlye repungnaunte one vnto an other : to haue of goddes election , that we be holye and blamelesse , and to come vnto it , I meane vnto the same election , by reason of oure owne workes and deseruynges .

Your reason is very good . The holynesse of the saints hath hys ofspringe of the election of god . For , when it is sayed that the faithfull were chosen , for to be holye and blamelesse in the sight of god , it is signified thereby that the holynesse that should be in them , hath hadde his beginnynge and of spring of the election , wherby they haue bene chosen in Christ Iesu . For , what reason were it to saye , that those thinges , whiche do come and springe of election , haue bene the caussers of it . But he semeth afterwards to make his argument more strong , when he saieth : according to his pleasure , which he had purposed in him self . For , Where vnto our election ought to tende when it is saied , that god did purpose in him selfe , it is as much as if it should be saied , that god in his election , hath respect to non other thing but to him self . And therfore it is added there , that the hole som of our election , doth tend & pertain to this , that we may be to the praise & glory of the grace of God . Truely , the grace of God , doth not deserue , to be only magnified in our election , except it be gratuity & free . But how can it be gratuite and free , if god doth consider afore and rekene what shall be the workes and merytes of eury man ? Wherfore the saying of Christ vnto his disciples must be most true , Iohn . xv . he sayth : ye haue not chosen me , but I haue chosen you , where he doth not only put away the merites that were passed , or that might haue gone before , but also declare that there was nothynge in them , wherfore they should be chosen , except he hadde preuented them with his grace . Rom. xi . And so ought the sayinge of Saint Paule to be vnderstanded wher he saith : who hath geuen vnto hym fyrst , and hee shall be recompenced again ? Signifying therby that the goodnesse of GOD doth so preuent all men , that nothynge can be found in them , ether passed or to come , wherby he can be reconciled vnto them . But the matter is set forth more plainlye in the ninthe chapyter of the Epistle to the Romaines , mark wel this place of Paule , and learn to geue to the holye ghost that spake in him more credit , than to the sinister exposition of the free wyll men . where the Apostle doth describe most liuelye , and as it were , set out to the eye , the condition of the electe and reprobate vnder the example of Iacob and Esau , speaking after this maner : Or the children were borne , or had done either good or euil , that the purpose of God might stande accordinge to the election , not by the deseruinge of workes , but by the grace of the caller , it was said : The greater shal serue the lesse . As it is wrytten : Iacob haue I loued , and Esau haue I hated . Heare doe we learne by the wordes of the holy Apostle , that the saluation of the faithful is only grounded in the fre election of almighty God our heauenly father , and that the same fauour , is not gotten or obteyned by workes , but cometh of the free calling of God . We haue a most liuely description of all the hole matter set forth here vnto vs . Esau and Iacob were brethren , hauinge all one father and mother , being yet in one wombe , and not born into the world . In them , al thinges were lyke ( for they had don nether good nor euil ) yet God did geue a contrary iudgement of them . For , the one of them did he chuse , and the other he dyd vtterly reiecte . There was onely the right of the first borne , wherin Esau did sumwhat exceade Iacob . Which neuerthelesse was vtterly neglected , & the same geuen vnto the yonger , whiche was denyed vnto the elder . Yea , god dyd also in many other , neglect & set at naught this right of the first born , that so he might take from men all occasion of bosting . For , refusinge Ismaell , he geueth his minde vnto Isaac . Gen. xxi . Ge. xlviii Also putting a side Manasses , he doth prefer Ephraim .

I can scarcelye think , Obiection that we ought to iudge of the inheritance of the children of god , by such smal triffles , as the ryght of the first born is . For , who wold beleue , the whosoeuer is promoted to the dignity of the first born , he is also ordaivnto lyfe euerlasting ?

Answer . In dede there be some , whiche in thys thynge do neuer a whytte spare Paule , as thoughe he dothe wrast the scriptures into a wronge sence in aledging those authorities . But I answer , that the blessed Apostle S. Paule did nether mistake , nor yet misuse the same authorities of the holy scripture . For , he did see ( whiche thynge they wil neyther marke nor consider ) that God wold declare and bring to light with an earthly token the spiritual election of Iacob , which elsse was hidden in the secreates of his iudgements . For except we do refer that right of the first born , which was graunted him , vnto the worlde to come , that is to say : excepte the ryght of the fyrste born which Iacob did bie of his brother Esau , Gen. xxv . did pertaine to a better life , al the blessing , wherof here in this world he did receiue nothynge elsse but affliction , trouble , and aduersity , must nedes be vain and folishe . Seinge then that the Lorde had by thys outward blessing testified and declared what manner of blessynge , he hadde prepared for his seruaunt Iacob in his kingdome , he dyd not sticke to grounde his argument vpon it , whereby he wente aboute to proue the spirituall election of the holy Patriarche : Iacob then is chosen and Esau is refused , and all by the mere predestination of god , when they had yet done nether good nor euill . And if ye will knowe the causes whye ?

The cause of oure election & reprobation . Rom. ix . Ex. xxxiii Saint Paule doth aunswer , that it was done , because that it had bene said vnto Moses : I wil shew mercy to whome I shew mercy , and wyll haue Compassyon , on whome I haue compassion . Wher the Lorde doth plainlye declare that he fynedeth no manner of thynge in vs , wherefore he shoulde do vs good , but that he taketh occasion to do vs good of his mercye onlye . And that therfore our saluation is hys owne woorke and not oures . Sithe then that God doth appoynt thy saluation none other where , but in hym self only , why shouldest thou come down to thy self ? Syth that he doth assigne vnto thee his mercy onlye , why shouldest thou runne to thine owne merites ? Contente thy selfe with his mercy , and set al thy workes a side . Obiection

Yet for all this , both Ambrose , Origene , and Hierome were of opinion , that God dyd dispose and deuide his grace among men , as he did for se , that they shuld vse it .

I doe not denye it , Answer . Li. retract . i. Cap. i. Episto . ad sextum . cix . yea I say furthermore that S. Augustine was of the same opinion also . But after that he had profited better in the knowledge of the scriptures , and word of God , he did not only reuoke it , but also dyd moste mightelye confute it , as false and erroneus . Yea , after his retraction rebukinge the Pelagians , because that they continue still in the same errour , he saith plainlye these wordes : Against the Pelagians who woulde not meruaile that the Apostle shoulde haue wanted this witty vnderstanding ? For , when he hadde set forthe a matter , which was to be wondred and meruailed at , touching them that were not yet borne , Rom. ix . and had made an obiection to him selfe , sayinge : What then ? is there any vnrighteousnesse with God ? he had occasion to answer that god had forsene the merites of them both , yet he did not so , but did flie to his iudgementes and mercy . And in an other place , when he had taken awaye all the merites before our election , Home . in Ioa. 8. he saith : Here truelye the vaine reasoning of them canne take no place , whiche do defend the foreknowledge of God , against his grace , and therfore do say , that we wer chosen afore that the foundacions of the world wer made , because that God did forsee that we would be good , and not that he hym selfe , should make vs good . He sayth not so , that saythe : Ye haue not chosen me , but I haue chosen you . For , if he had therefore chosen vs , because that he had forsene , that we would be good , he shuld also haue knowne before , that we woulde haue chosen him . Let this serue for them , They doe alwaies a peale vnto the fathers , and yet they will follow none of theyr holesome doctrine . that do so gladly reast vpon the authority of the fathers . But go to , let it be as thoughe , he had sayde nothynge at all , and so let vs come to the very matter it selfe . There was a very harde question moued , whether God dyd iustlye or not , in thys that he dyd geue hys grace to certayne men . Here Paule myght haue ryd hym self wyth one word , if he wold haue had any respect vnto the workes and merites . For , he myghte haue answered straighte , that God dyd so , because that he dyd foresee , their merites and woorkes . But why doth he not so , but rather contynueth styll in a Communicatyon , whyche is of lyke difficultye and hardnesse ? Shall we saye , that the holy gost , which spake by his mouthe , was obliuious or forgetful ? we se , that he goth not about the bush , but answereth plainly , that God dothe show fauour vnto his elect , because that it is his will so to do , and that he sheweth mercy because that hys pleasure is so . For , when the Lord saith : I will shew mercy , to whome I shew mercye , and will haue compassion , on whome I haue compassion , Ex. xxxiii it is as much as if he shuld say that nothing doth moue him to mercye , but onlye because that he wyll shew mercy , that is to say : that the only thinge that moueth hym to be merciful or to shew mercy and compassion , is only his blessed wil and pleasure . Therfore , the sayinge of Saint Augustine shal remain most true , Home . in Ioa. 38. Episto . cvi . where he saith , that the grace of God doth not finde vs worthy to be chosen , but maketh vs worthy . I do here let passe the vaine subtelties of the schole men , which canne take no place among them , that contente them selues with the wholesome doctrine , and heauenly wisedome of Gods worde . For , that is very true , which an olde Ecclesiasticall wryter did wryte , sayinge , that they which do assigne , Am. de vo ca. gentium Li. 1. Ca. 1. attribute and adscribe the election of God vnto the merites of men , are wyser , than it behoueth .