The Protestants evidence taken out of good records; shewing that for fifteene hundred yeares next after Christ, divers worthy guides of Gods Church, have in sundry weightie poynts of religion, taught as the Church of England now doth: distributed into severall centuries, and opened, by Simon Birckbek ... Birckbek, Simon, 1584-1656. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A16161 of text S102067 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 3083). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 1303 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 248 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A16161 STC 3083 ESTC S102067 99837867 99837867 2214 2240880689

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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A16161) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 2214) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 624:02) The Protestants evidence taken out of good records; shewing that for fifteene hundred yeares next after Christ, divers worthy guides of Gods Church, have in sundry weightie poynts of religion, taught as the Church of England now doth: distributed into severall centuries, and opened, by Simon Birckbek ... Birckbek, Simon, 1584-1656. [40], 248; 206, [2] p. Printed [by Augustine Mathewes and Thomas Cotes] for Robert Milbourne, and are to bee sold at the signe of the Grayhound in Pauls Church-yard, London : 1635. Title page in red and black. "Cotes pr[inted] aa-ff; Mathewes the rest"--STC. The first leaf is blank. "The tvvelfth centurie, from the yeere one thousand one hundred, to one thousand two hundred" (caption title) has separate pagination and register. Includes bibliography. Page c4r has errata. Variant: c4r blank. Reproduction of the original in Cambridge University Library. eng Protestantism -- Apologetic works. eebo The Protestants evidence, taken out of good records; shewing that for fifteene hundred yeares next after Christ, divers worthy guides of Gods Church, Birckbek, Simon, 1635 496 217823 13298 0 0 0 44 4 685.79 F The rate of 685.79 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the F category of texts with 100 or more defects per 10,000 words. 2002-04 Assigned for keying and markup 2002-05 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2002-06 Sampled and proofread 2002-06 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2002-07 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

THE PROTESTANTS EVIDENCE , TAKEN OVT OF GOOD ●●●ORDS ; Shewing that for Fifteene hundred yeares next after CHRIST , divers worthy ●uides of Gods Church , have in sundry weightie poynts of Religion , taught as the Church of England now doth : DISTRIBVTED INTO SEVERALL CENTVRIES , and opened , By SIMON BIRCKBEK , Bachelor in Divinitie , sometime Fellow of Queenes Colledge in Oxford , and now Minister of Gods Word 〈◊〉 Gilling in RICHMONDSHIRE .

LONDON , Printed for Robert Milbourne , and are to bee sold at the Signe of the Grayhound in Pauls Church-yard 1635.

TO THE RIGHT WORshi●full , HV●FREY WHARTO● of Gillingwood , Esquire , Receiver Generall of his Majesties R●v●nues within the Arch-Deaconry of Richmond the Bishopricke of Durham , and Northumberla●d , my m●ch respected Patron , G●ace and Peace bee multiplied . Sir ,

THe free accesse which you made mee , for the exercise of my Ministerie within your donation , ( what time , besides other Sutors , you had a sonne of your owne , whose sufficiencie of Gifts might have anti-dated his yeares , and made him capable of greater Preferment , had God been pleased to have continued his life ) hath so farre engaged mee unto you , that I have laid hold on the first oportunitie , whereby I might manifest my thankefulnesse unto you ; which I could not better expresse , than by Dedicating this Treatise to your Name and Memory , beseeching God , that as hee hath hitherto done great things for you , and given you a Benjamins portion above your brethren , Gen●s●● 3.34 . so hee would still continue his favours to you and yours , and blesse you , both in your owne person , and in your fruitfull & promising off-spring . Now if this Treatise seeme not no sutable a Present either to your yeares or disposition , which call you indeed rather to a poynt of Devotion , than Disputation ; the truth is , it is a Controversall Treatise , yet it is withall a just and Defensive War , which I have undertaken , rather for the clearing of our owne ( cast , than the infesting of others ; and the end I aime at , is to discover the truth , and guide others therein ; And I know it would please you at the heart , to see such as have gone astray , reduced into the old way , Ierem. 6 . 1● . which the Prophet calls the Good way . If any shall reape benefit by this Worke , and thanke the Authour for his paines , I shall foorthwith take them up , and bestow them wh●re they are due , namely , next under God , upon your selfe , upon whose Gleabe these first Fruits of mine grew , and are now ( in such sort as you see ) gathered into this Store-house , and sequestred into severall Centuries , for the Churches use and benefit , by one of her meanest Proctors , but

Your much bounden Kinsman , and Beneficiary , SIMON BIRCKBEK .
TO THE READER .

CHristian Reader , this Treatise was first occasioned , and afterwards composed in maner as followeth : The Prophet a a Hosea 7.8 . Hosea saith of Ephraim , that hee had mixt himselfe among the people ; that Ephraim was as a Cake on the hearth not turned , baked on the one side , and raw upon the other ; that is , b b Popula● Israel non solum f●it inf●ctu● Idololatriâ Ieroboam , sed & Idololatrijs Gentilium existentium circa populum Israel . Lyra in loc. in poynt of Religion , was partly a Iew , and partly a Gentile . It was my lot to fall upon a Charge , which like Ephraim , was part Protestant , part Papall , and the one side questioned with the other , Where their Religion was before Luther ? Whereunto I addressed such answere , as I thought might satisfie the weake , and represse the clamourous ; but the matter growing to farther debate , it occasioned me to draw a Catalogue of our Professors . Now it fell out , that about the same time , M Doctor ●e●●ly ( one who is exc●llently verst in Controversies ) had with good successe stood up in this quarrell with Iesuit Fisher. I acquainted him therefore with the businesse , and he gave mee the right hand of Fellowship , Galath. 2.9 . encouraging me to go on with my Catalogue : but I found it too hard a taske for me , ( though I had good helps from others , namely from the wel-furnished Libraries of my much respected friends , Master D. Potter , the worthy and learned Provost of Queenes Colledg in Oxford , and Mr. W. Richardson , Minister of Gods Word at Borough Church in Westmerland , a very learned and revere●d Divine , & also my good neighbour M. Nathaniel Hawksworth ) to procure such Records as might prescribe for 1500 yeares together : so that it caused me travell as far as Oxford , there to visit those famous private and publike Libraries , where I became an eye-witnesse of divers parcels of Evidence , wherof I made use in this Treatise . And now havi●g my materialls about mee , I though● my selfe tollerablie furnisht for the Worke ; and yet if I had had ●he whole Bodleian-Vaticane Library about me , I might sometime have bin at a stand , if I had not had some Living Librarie to consult withall . Whereupon ( having to deale with a companie of subtill Adversaries , like the sonnes of Zerviah , of whom David complained , 2 Sam. 3 39. that they were too hard for him ; and lest the truth , and the Churches Cause might seeme to suffer through my weaknesse ) I repaired , by entercourse of Letters , to my learned Counsell Mr. Dr. Featly , and hee ( I thanke him ) was readie to resolve me when I was in doubt , and to direct mee , ( yea and correct mee also ) when I was at default ; and indeed I was well pleased with the Obeliskes and dashes of his pen ; for , as Salomon saith , The wounds of a lover are faithfull . Prov. 27. v. 6. I have used the helpe of Ancient and Moderne Writers , forreine and domestick , and namely , the Reverend and learned Bishops , and Doctors of our Church ; insomuch as I may say in Samsons language , Iudg , 14.18 . That if I had not ploughed with their Heifer , I had not so easily unfolded divers Popish Riddles . I have dealt faithfully in the businesse , not wresting , nor wittingly misalleadging any Authours testimonie , nor yet sleightly proposing the Adversaries Argument : for that had beene to have set up a shaw-fowle of mine owne framing , and then have battered it in pieces with mine owne Ordna●ce ; but I have done as the Israelites , who went downe to the Philistims to sharpen their tooles : 1 Sam. 13.10 . I have set as keene an edge on the Adversaries Arguments , as Bellarmines , Parsons , or Brereleyes Forge could afford . I conf●sse the Worke is larger , than I either desired , or expected ; but it could not well bee otherwise and speake fully to a thousand yeares and a halfe , and withall cleere the Evidence as it went , from the Exceptions of the Adversary . I have also been long about it and so my worthy Doctor tells mee ; but withall hee puts mee in hope , it may prove like the * * ●ardius enascitur seris umbram factura N●potibus Cupressus . Cypresse tree , which though it bee long a growing , yet wh●n once it is growen up to a tree , the shade of it s●rves for an harbour to the child unborne , the issue hereof I leave to GOD. This onely I may truely say of this Worke , It hath stood mee to some charges , and cost mee much paines and travell ; Al which ( were it an hundred times more than it is ) I should thinke well bestowed , if the Church of God , and my Charge profit by me , and the Christian Reader pray for me .

S. B.
Catalogu● Testium Veritatis . OR , A Catalogue of such Witnesses as are produced in th●● Treatise , for proofe of the PROTESTANTS Religion , disposed according to the times wherein they flourished . Witnesses produced in the first Age , from Christs birth to 100 yeares . CHRIST IESVS . The twelve Apostles . Saint Paul , and the Churches of the Romanes , and others . Anno 63. Ioseph of Arimathea , who brought Christianitie into Britaine . 70. Dionysius Areopagita . The Bookes that beare his Name , seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth Age after Christ . 100 Ignatius the Martyr . In the second Age from 100 to 200. 150 Iustine Martyr . 166 Hegesippus . 169. The Church of Smyrna , touching the Martyrdome of their Bishop Polycap . 170 Melito , Bishop of Sardys . 177 Pope Eleutherius his Epistle to Lucius , the first Christian King of Britaine . 180 Polycrates of Ephesus , and the Easterne Churches , touching the keeping of Easter . 180 Irenaeus , Bishop of Lyons . 200 Clemens Alexandrinus . In the third Age , from 200 to 300. 201 Tertullian . 230 Origen . 230 Minutius Felix . 250 Cyprian , Bishop of Carthage . 300 Arnobius . 300. Lactantius . Anno 291 Amphibalus , and his associates martyred in Britaine ; and Saint Alban . ann. 303. In the fourth Age , from 300 to 400. 310 A Councill at Eliberis in Spaine 317 Constantine the Great . 325 The first Generall Councill at Nice , against the Arrians . 330 Eusebius Bishop of Caesarea . 337 Ephraim the Syrian . 340 Athanasius Bishop of Alexandria . 360 Hilarie , Bishop of Poitiers . 364 A Councill at Laodicea . 370 Macarius the Aegyptian Monke . 370 Cyril Bishop of Hierusalem . 370 Optatus Bishop of Mela in Africke . 370 Ambrose Bishop of Milain . 370 Basil the Great , Bishop of Caesarea . 370 Gregorie Nazianzen . 380 Gregory Nyssen , Bishop of Nyssa in Cappadocia , brother to Basil. 381 The second generall Councill at Constantinople , where Macedonius was condemned . 390 Epiphanius , Bish. of Salamine in Cyprus . In the fifth age , from 400 to 500. 406 S. Chrysostome , Bish. of Constantinople . Andr. Rivet . Critici sacri . 415 S. Hierome . idem . 420 S. Augustinus . 429 Palladius , sent ( by Pope Celestine ) into Scotland ; and Germanus ( by the French Bishops ) into Britain , to beat downe Pelagianisme . 430 Vincentius Lirinensis wrote against the Pelagians , and Nestorians . 430 Cyril Bishop of Alexandria . 430 Theodoret the Historian , Bish. of Cyrene . 431 The third generall Councill at Ephesus , where Nestorius was condemned & deprived . 450 Leo the Great . 451 The fourth generall Councill at Chalcedon , where Dioscurus & Eutyches were condemned . 490 Gelasius the Pope . In the sixth age , from 500 to 600. 520 Cassiodore , Abbot of Ravenna . 520 Fulgentius , Bishop of Ruspa in Africke . 529 A Councill at Aurange , against Semi-Pelagians , and Massilians . 540 Iustus Orgelitanus claruit ann. 540. Trithem . de Scriptor . Ecclesiast. 545 Iunilius , Episcopus Africanus . 545 Primasius , a Bishop of Africke . Bellar. de Scriptor . Ecclesiast. 540 Rhemigius , Bish. of Rhemes . Andr. Rivet . 553 The fifth generall Councili at Constantinople , to confirme the Nicen Councill . 560 Dracontius . 580 Venantius Fortunatus , Bish. of Poictiers , a Poet , and Historian . 596 Augustine the Monke , Mellitus and Laurence , sent into Britaine by Pope Gregorie . 596 The Britaines Faith . 600 Columbanus , or Saint Colme of Ireland . In the seventh age , from 600 to 700. 601 Greg. the First , the Great , placed by Bellar. in this seventh age . Bell. de Script . Eccles. 601 Hesych . Bish. of Hierusalem . Bellar. ibid. 630 ●sidore , Bishop of Sevill , Disciple to Gregorie the Great . 635 Aidanus , Bishop of Lindasferne , or Holy Iland , and Finanus his Successour . 681 The sixth Generall Councill at Constantinople , against the Monothelites , who held that although Christ had two Natures , yet hee had but one will . In the eighth Age , from 700 to 800. 720 Venerable Bede the Saxon. 740 Ioannes Damascenus . 740 Antonius Author Melissae . 754 A Council held at Constant. wherein were condemned Images , and the worshipers of them● 768 Clement , B. of Auxerre , Disciple to Bede . 787 The second Councill at Nice , about restoring of Images . 790 Alcuinus , or Albinus , an Englishman , Disciple to Bede , and Tutor to Charlemaigne : this Alcuinus laid the foundation of the Vniversitie of Paris . 794 A Councill at Frankford , wherein was condemned the second Councill of Nice , for approoving the worshipping of Images . 800 Carolus Magnus , and Libri Carolini . In the ninth Age , from 800 to 900. 815 Claudius Scotus . 820 Claudius Taurinensis , against Image-worship . 824 A Councill at Paris about Images . 830 Christianus Druthmarus , the Monke of Corbey . 830 Agobard , Bishop of Lyons . 840 Rabanus Maurus , Bishop of Mentz , Disciple to Al●win . 840 Haymo , Bishop of Halberstadt , Cousin to Bede . 840 Walafridus Strabus , Abbot of Fulda , Disciple to Rabanus ; hee collected the Ordinarie Glosse on the Bible . Trithem . de script . Eccles. 861 Hulderick , Bishop of Auspurge . 862 Iohn Mallerosse , the Scottish Divine ; or Ioannes Scotus Erigena ; hee was slaine by the Monkes of Malmsbury . 860 Photius , Patriarke of Constantinople ; he wrote the Nomo-Canon . 876 Bertram , a Monke and Priest of France . 890 Rhemigius , Monke of Auxerre ; hee wrote upon Saint Mathew . 890 Ambrosius Ansbertus , the French Monke . In the tenth Age , from 900 to 1000. 910 Radulphus Flaviacensis Monachus . Bellarm. quò suprà . 950 Stephanus Eduensis Monachus . Idem . 950 Smaragdus the Abbot . 975 Abbot Aelfrick , and his Saxon Homily , and his Saxon Treatise of the Old and New Testament , both translated into English . In the eleventh age , from 1000 to 1100. 1007 Fulbert , Bishop of Chartres . 1050 Oecumenius . 1050 Berengarius . 1060 Radulphus Ardens . 1070 Theophylact , Archbish. of the Bulgarians . 1080 Anselme , Archbishop of Canterbury . 1090 Hildebert , Archbishop of Tours . 1100 Anselmus Laudunensis , Collector of the Interlinear Glosse . In the twelfth age , from 1100 to 1200. 1101 Zacharias Chrysopolitanus . 1120 Rupertus Tuitiensis . 1130 Hugo de Sancto Victore . 1130 Bernardus Clarae-vallensis . 1130 Peter Bruis , and Henry of Tholouse . 1140 Peter Lombard , Master of the Sentences . 1150 Petrus Cluniacensis . 1158 Ioannes Sarisburiensis . 1160 Petrus Blesensis , Archdeacon of Bathe . 1170 Gratianus . 1170 Hildegard the Prophetesse . Trithem . 1195 Ioachimus Abbas . 1200 Nicetas Choniates . In the thirteenth Age , from 1200 to 1300. 1206 Gul. Altissiodorensis . 1215 Concil. Lateranense , & Cuthb . Tonstal . Dunelm . Episcop. de eodem . 1220 Honorius Augustodunensis . Bellarm. 1230 Gulielmus Alvernus Parisiensis Episcopus . 1230 Petrus de Vineis . Trithem . 1240 Alexander de Hales . 1250 Gerardus and Dulcinus . 1250 Hugo Cardinalis . 1250 Robert Groute-head , or Grosse-teste , Bishop of Lincolne . 1256 Gulielmus de Sancto Amore. 1260 Thomas Aquinas . 1260 Bonaventura . 1260 Arnoldus de Novâ villâ . 1300 Ioannes Duns Scotus . In the fourteenth age , from 1300 to 1400. 1303 Barlaam the Monke , and Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica . 1320 Gulielmus Ockam . 1320 Nicol. de Lyra , a converted Iew , who commented on all the Bible . 1320 Marsilius Patavinus . 1320 Michael Cesena . Trithem . 1320 Dantes . 1320 Durandus de S. Portiano . 1330 Alvarus Pelagius . 1340 Iohannes de Rupe-scissâ . Trithem . 1340 Thomas Bradwardin . 1343 The Kings of England oppose Papall Provisions , and Appeales , Anno 1391. 1350 Richardus Armachanus . 1350 Robert Holcot , the Englishman . 1350 Francis Petrarch . Bellarm. 1350 Taulerus , a Preacher at Strasbrough . Bellarm. 1370 Saint Bridge● . 1370 Iohn Wickliffe , and the Lollards . 1386 Gregorius Ariminensis . 1400 Sir Geoffrey Chaucer . In the fifteenth Age , from 1400 to 1500. 1410 Petrus de Alliaco , Cameracensis . Bell. 1410 Iohn Gerson , Chancellour of Paris . 1411 Petrus Dresdensis , and Iacobellus Misvensis . 1414 Iohn Hus , and Hierome of Prague . 1414 Constantiense Concilium . 1417 Nicholaus Clemangis . Trithem . 1420 Ziscay , the Captaine of the Hussites . 1420 Laurentius Valla. 1426 Iohn Rochezana , Disciple of Hus. 1430 Paulus Burgensis . 1430 Alphonsus Tostatus , Bishop of Avila . 1430 Thomas Walden . 1431 Basiliense Concilium . 1440 Bessarion the Cardinall . 1453 Iohn de Vesalia . 1460 Nicolaus de Cusa . 1460 Dionysius Carthusianus . 1479 Wessellus , Preacher at Wormes . 1480 Gabriel Biel. 1490 Iohn and Francis Picus , Earles of Mirandula . 1494 Trithemius the Abbot , teste ipso . 1498 Hierome Savonarola , burnt at Florence for Religion . 1500 Ernestus , Archbishop of Magdeburge . In the sixteenth Age , from 1500 to 1600. Anno 1517. Martin Luther published his Propositions against Indulgences ; and shortly after opposed the Popes Supremacie , Purgatory , and other Tenets of the Pontificials of Rome .
A Catalogue of Authours cited in this Treatise , with the time and place of their Edition . A. ADo Viennens . Chron. 1512. Agobardi opera , Parisijs 1605. Aelfrickes Sermon on Easter day , printed at London by Iohn Day , and reprinted Lond. 1623 , with his Saxon Treatise of the old and new Testament . Aeliani varia Histor. Graeco-lat . Tiguri 1556. Paulus Aemilius de gest . Francor . Basileae the place expressed , but not the yeare . Alcuini opera , Paris● 1617. — idem de Trinitate , Lugd. 1525. Alexander de Ales ( his ) Summa in quatuor partib . Papiae 1489. Clem. Alexandrini opera Graec● , ex Biblioth. Medicaeâ , Florent , 1550. Petr. de Alliac● Cardin. Cameracens . in lib. 1 , 3 , & 4. Sentent . Paris . Monachi Altissiodorens . Chronologia Trecis , 1609. Gul. Altissiodorens . in Sent. Paris . 1500. Alvarus Pelagius de planctu Eccles. Venetijs 1560. Ambros●j opera tom . 5. Basileae 1538. Bishop Andrews Answer to Cardinall Perron's Reply , London 1629. — ejusdem Responsio ad Bellarmini Apologiam , London 1610. Ambros. Ansbertus in Apocalyps . Colon. 1536. Anselmi opera● Colon. 1573. Anselmi Laudunens . Gloss. Interlinear , apud Lyran. Lugduni . 1589. Antiquitates Britanicae Hanoviae 1605. S. Antonij Melissa in Biblioth. S. Patr. per Margarin● de la Bigne . Thomae Aquinatis Summa . Paris . 1608. Thom. Aquinatis opera Antuerp . 1612. Radulphus Ardens in Dominical● cited by Doctor Vsher in his Answ●r to the Iesuite . Gregor. Ariminens . in prim . & secund. Sentent . Venet. 1503. Ric. Armaca●i Sermones contrà Fratres Mendicant . & Quaestion . Armenor . Paris . 1511. D. Arnobius advers. Gentes . Antuerp . 1582. Articles of Religion in England , London , 1631. — In Ireland , London 1629. S. Athanasij opera Graeco-Lat . Paris 1627. — Latin . in 4. tom . Basil 1556. Io. Aventini Annales Boiorum , Ingolstad . 1554. Augustini opera in 10. tom . Basil 1529. A●orij Institution . Moral . tom . primus , Colon. 1602. B. ●oh . Balaeus , de Scriptor . Britan Basil. 1559. The Prudentiall Ballance , weighing the Catholike and Protestant Religion , 1609. Theodori Balsamon . Com. in Canones , Paris . 1561. Caesaris Baronij Annales in 10. tom . Antuerp . 1597. Basilij opera S●aeco-lat . tom . 2. Par. M.DCXVIII . — Lat. Antuerp . 1568. Bedae opera in 8. tom . Basil. 1563. — Ec●lesiast , Histor. Gent. Anglor . Antuerp . 1550. Master B●dels Letters to Master Wadesworth , London , 1624. Robert Bellarminus de Controvers. Fidei , Ingolstad . 1587. — de Scriptorib . Ecc●esiast . Colon. 1622. — de Indulgentijs & Iubilaeo . Colon. 1599. Benno Cardinal . de Vitâ & Gest. Hildebrandi , in Fascie . rerum expetend & fugiend . Colon. 1535. Iaco. Philip. Bergomens . Supplement . Chron. Venet. 1503. Bernardi opera , Paris . 1513. Philip Ber●●●●j Pithanon Diatribae 2. Tolosae . 1608. Bertold . Constantiens . Appendix ad Hermanni Chron. Francof . 1585. Bertram de corp. & sang . Domini . Colon. 1551. — Anglicè . Lond. 1548. Bessarion . Tract . de Sacram. Euchar. habetur inter ●iturgias S. Patr. Antuerp . 1560. Biblia Latin . per Sanct. Pagnin . Lugdun . 1527. Bibliotheca Patrum , tom . 14. Colon. Agrip. 1618. Bibliotheca S. Patr. tom . 9. Edit. secunda , per Margarin de la Bigne , Paris . 1589. — cadem tom . 8. Paris . 1575. Bibliotheca vet. Patr. seu Scriptor . Ecclesiasticor . tom . 1. Graeco-lat . Paris . 1624. Magna Bibliotheca , vet. Patr. tom . 15. Colon. 1622. Gabr. Biel super Canone Mi●sae . Lugdun . 1542. Bishop Bilson , of Subjection , Lond. 1586. Pet. Bles●nsis opera , Mogunt . 1600. Bonaventurae opera , tom . 7. Romae 1588. Tho. Bradwardin . de Causâ Dei contrà Pelagium . London . 1618. Io. Brereley , ( his ) Protestants Apologie . 1608. Breviarium Roman . Lugd. 1548. Edward Bre●rewoods Enquiries of Languages and Religions , Lond. 1614. Brigittae Rev●lation . Nurenburg . 1521. Rich. Bristow ( his ) Motives . Antwerp . 1599. Abr. Bucholceri Chronolog . Basil. MDCXI . Gul Budaei opera Basil. 1556. A Bull graunted by Pope Pius the fifth , to Docto● Harding . Paul . Burgensis Addit . ad Lyran. inter opera Nicol. de Lyra. Paris . 1590. C. Anthon. Cade ( his ) Iustification of the Church of England . London 1630. Tho. de Vio Caietan . Comment. in tertiam part● Summae Aquinat Bononiae . 1520. — In Epist. Pauli . Lugdu● . 1556. Gul. Camdeni Britannia Lond. 1600. — Anglice Lond. 1610. Edm. Campiani Ratione● Cosmopoli . 1581. Codex Canonum vetus Eccles. Romanae . Lutetiae . 1609. Canones Apostolorum & Concilior . ex Editione Ioan. Tilij Graec. — & Lat. Lutet . Paris . 1620. Thom. Cantipratanus de mirac . & exempl . memorabilib . sui temporis , Duaci . 1605. Melchior Canus de loc. Theolog. Lovan . 1569. Barthol . Caranza ( his ) Summa Concilior . Antuerp . 1577. Hugo Cardi●alis Postillae pa●t . 6. Paris . 1539. Carion Chronic. à Caspar Pe●cero auctum . Witebergae . 1570. Caroli Magni libri quatuor contrà Imagines , Francof . 1608. Dionys. Carthusiani opera , Colon. 1533. Georg. Cassandri de Articul . Religion . Consultatio . Lugdun . 1608. — Liturgica . Colon. 1558. — De Officio pij viri in dissidio Religionis Colon. 1577. Cassiodorus in Psalmos , Paris . 1519. Alphons . de Castro advers. Haeres . Venet. 1546. — de justâ Haereticor . punitione , Antuerp . 1568. Mathias ●laccius Illiricus ( his ) Catologus testium veritatis studio & curâ Si. Goulartij . Gen. 1608. Ambros. Cathaerini disceptatio de Certitudine Gratiae . Romae . 1551. Georg. C●dreni Annales Graec. & Lat. Basil. 1566. Centuriae ecclesiast. Histor. Magdeburg . Basil. 1569. Edw. Chaloners Treatise upon Credo Eccles. S. Catholicam , Lond. 1625. Sir Geoffrey Chaucers Workes , Lond. 1602. Mart. Chemnit . loci Theologi● . partes 3. Fr. 1608. Ioann . Chrysostomi opera Graec , in tom . 8. Etonae . 1613. — Ejusdem opera Lat. in tom . 5. Paris . 1588. Zacharia● Chrysopolitan . Episcop. in Concord . Evangel. 1535. David . Chytrai Chronolog . Helmaestadij , 1593. Nicol. de Cl●mangijs opera , Lugd. Batav. 1612. Pet. Cluniace●s . opera , Paris . 1522. Robert . Cocus ( his ) Censura quorundam Scriptor . veterum . Lond. 1614. Ioan. Cochl●i Histor. Hussit . Mogunt . 1549. S. Col●mban . in libro cui titul . Paraenetic . vet. cum notis Goldasti . 1604. Philip de Cominees ( his Historie of Lewis the eleventh , and Charles the eighth , Gallic● . A Paris . 1551. Concilia General . & Provincial . per Severin . Binnium● tom . 4. Colon. 1606. Concilia General . Edit. Romae , 1612. Concil. Tridentin . Antuerp . 1577. Gaspar Contareni opera , Par. 1571. Costeri Enchiridion Controversiar . Colon. 1586. Rich. Crakanthorpe , of the Popes temporall Monarchy . London . 1621. — Of the fifth Generall Councell . Lond. 1631. — Defensio Eccles. Anglicanae contrà Archiepiscop . Spalatens . Lond. 1625. Saint Austins Summes of Religion by William Crompton , in answer to Iohn Brereley , Lond. 1625. Nicol. de Cusâ opera , Basil. 1565. D. Cypriani Opera cum Annotat. Iacob . 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Errata si● corr●ge . In Epist. Ded. pag. 1. lin. ult. reade antedated . pag. 2. lin. 16. no , r●so . In Praef. ad Lect. pag. 4. lin. 2. and spe●ke , r. being to speake . In Catal. test . in the 5. Age , lin. 2. dele . Andrew Rivet . lin. 10. B. of Cyrene , r. B. of Cyrus , or Cyria . In the first Alphabet . Pag. 7. lin. penult. r. they practise . p. 18. in marg. li. 17. r. 1590. pag. 35. lin. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . pag. 39. in marg. li. 21. cap. r. cont. pag. 42. l. 19. other , r. the other . pag. 55. l. 25. Christ , r. God . p. ●9 . l. 5. learned , r. taught . pag. 76. lin. 12. adde , and we truely eat the word flesh . pag. 78. l. ult. substance , r. person . pag. 16● . lin. 2. haec , r. he . viz. pag. 182. lin. 15. were condemned , r. were not condemned . pag. 237. lin. 2. glorifieth , r. glorieth . In the second Alphabet . Pag. 14. in marg. lin. 1. nulluum , r. nullum . p. 31. l. 28. r. by a straine . pag. 32. lin. 24. dele . as . pag. 34. lin. 31. saith , r. hath . pag. 51. in marg lin. 14. r. sibi ipsi . pag. 62. lin. 3. r. I used . pag. 84. in marg. l. 13. r. salvatione . pa. 100 in marg. l. 8. r. tenuerim . pag. 116. l. 14. r. heare . pag. 123. l. 31. remaine , r. to be abolished . pag. 155. liu . 29. universall , r. easterne . pa. 161. lin. 13. did , r. I did . & in marg. lin. 4. xiiij , r. xij . pag. 197. lin. 24. many , r. may . pag. 204. lin. 2. 60. r. 600. pag. 206. lin. 1. god , r. good .
The nine Articles of Religion handled in the severall Centuries of this Treatise , are these : 1 Concerning the Scriptures sufficiencie . 2 Of the Scripture Canon . 3 Of Communion in both kindes . 4 Of the number of Sacraments . 5 Concerning the Eucharist . 6 Touching Worship of Images . 7 Concerning Invocation of Saints departed . 8 Of Iustification . 9 Of Merits .

By the way ar● handled , The Popes Supremacie . The power of Calling Councills . Appeales to Rome . Priestes Marriage , &c.

THE PREFACE TO THE PROTESTANTS EVIDENCE . PAPIST .

GOod morrow Neighbour , are you going to Church so early ?

PROTESTANT .

I am Sir , and I should bee glad of your company .

PAP .

So should I be of yours ; but I doubt , wee goe not to the same Church .

PRO.

I am going to a Protestant Church , and I take that to be a true member of the Catholike .

PAP .

It is not ; for the true Church is ever gloriously visible , and had visible Professors in all ages ; but yours was not in being , ( a a Prot. Apolog. Tract. 3. chap. 2. sect. 2. p. 330. saith Father Brereley ) untill Luthers dayes : and Father Campian b b Testes res omnes & reculae , nullam in orbe religionem nisi nostram imis unquam radicibus insedisse . Camp rat. 10. calls to witnesse , res omnes & reculas , all things both great and small , things and thinglings , that never any other Religion but the Catholike , tooke any deepe root upon the face of the earth . And hee saith further , That c c Seculis omninò quindecim , non oppidum , non villam , non domum reperiunt imbutam doctrin● suâ . id . rat. 3. one cannot spie out so much as one towne , one village , one house for fifteene hundred yeeres that savoured of your doctrine : And Iesuite Coster saith , d d Constat manifestè , neminem to●o o●be mortalium , ante M. Lutherum , hoc est , an●e annum 1517 〈◊〉 , qui eam fidem ten●r●t . Coster . E●ch●●id . Co●trovers . cap. 2. It is manifestly evident , that none in the universall world before Luther , in the yeere 1517 , held that Faith , which Luther , and Calvins Schollers professed .

PROT.

This is but a vaine ●lourish of the Iesuites , and controuled by their owne man Bristow , who acknowledgeth , that c c Bristowes Motiv●s . Presat . & Motive 45. some there have been in many ages , in some points , of the Protestants opinion .

Now for our Tenet , this it is ; The Church , ( that is the societie of Christian people , professing saving faith ) is never totally hidden ; but there bee still some , that hold the right faith , and deliver it over to others ; and yet in time of persecution , and the like cases , the Church is not alwayes so conspicuous , as that a man seeing her outward pompe and ceremonies , may poynt her out , and safely joyne himselfe to such a company : for thus f f Romani●ellarm ●ellarm . lib. 3. de E●cle● . cap. 2. Bellarmine makes the Church to be a Societie subjecting themselves to the See of Rome , teaching trueth without errour , and this Companie as visible , as are the Citizens of Rome . Now for the Protestant Church , though it have not bin alwayes gloriously visible ; yet it hath been evermore so visible , as the true Church ought to be .

PAP .

Saint Austin saith , g g In Sole , id est● in mani●estatione . Aug. t●m. 7. cont lit● Petil. l. 2. cap 32. He hath set his Tabernacle in the Sun ; Is not the Church then conspicuous as the Sunne ?

PROT.

You may not argue from such Allusions as are taken from the outward pompe of the world , thereby to describe the inward beautie of the Church .

2. Besides , according to the true reading , h h So●t po●uit taberna●al●m in eis , id est , in ci●ti● Hie●on . i● Psal. 18. to . ● . the mea●ing is ; he hath set up a seat for the Sunne in the heavens , that there it might be viewed as on a scaffold : now this Sunne may be eclypsed .

3. Againe , this was onely an Allusion which Saint Austin used against the Donatists , ( who pinned up the Church within a corner of Afri●k , as now the Papists confine her to Rome ) thereby telling them , there were many Churches besides theirs , to bee seene as cleare as the Sunne , if the Donatists could discerne them .

4. Lastly , though Austin termed the Church in diebus illis , in his owne time , to be set as it were in the Sun ; yet he denies not , but that afterwards , in declining ages , this Sunne might bee darkened , and the Church make but small appearance in the time of persecution , as the same Father i i Ecce●●ia non apparebit , impi●s tunc persecuto●ibu● v●tra modum savientibus . Aug. epist. 80. tom. 2. speakes .

PA.

The Church is as a Citie upon an hill k k Math. 5.15.16 . , a light upon a Candles●icke , and therefore conspicuous .

PRO.

1. This also is an Allusion , which yet Saint Chrisostome l l Chrysost. in Math● c. 5. hom. 10. tom. 2. understands to be meant of the Apostles ; that they were to looke to their car●iage , since they were to preach abroad , and had many looke●s on .

2. Againe , though the Church be set on a hill , yet as the Aramites could not discerne ●he citie of Samaria , whither the Prophet led them , till their eyes were opened , 2 Kings chap. 6. no more can one discerne , or difference the true Church from the malignant , and conventicles of the wicked , untill his minde be enlightned . And thus Austin * * Montem ●on vide●● , n●lo mireris ; oculos non habent . August tract. 1. in epist. Ioan. tom. 9. tolde the Donatists , they could not see the Church on the hill , because their eyes were blinded , to wit , either with ignorance , or malice .

In a word , this Hill may bee hid with a mist , this Sunne obscured with a cloud , and the Moone ecclipsed . The blessed Apostles were no corner-creepers , yet were they not seene and acknowledged for true prof●ssors by the Scribes and Pharisees , that dwelt but hard by in Iewrie .

Howsoever , what is this to Rome , if shee hold the socket , and want the light ? if she be seated on a hill , yea seven hills , like m m A●o●al . 17.9 . Babylon ?

PA.

Will you call Rome Babylon ?

PRO.

Your owne Iesuites n n Babylon mater fornicationum , Roma quidem est . Ribera in cap. 14. A●ocal . nu. 39. call Rome Babylon ; neither can this bee meant of Heathen Rome , but of Rome Christian , and as it shall bee at the end of the world : for so speakes o o De Româ intelligendum , non solum quali● sub Ethnicis I●peratoribus olim fuit , sed etiam qualis i● fine seculi futura est . Riber . in 14 Apocal. nu. 42. Rib●ra ; and p p Colligitur ●o●am , extremis mu●di ●●mp●ribus , post quàm a f●ie defe●erit , ad s●mm●m potentiam perve●●uram . Vi●gas in cap. 18. Apoc. com . 1. sect. 4. Viegas saith , After that Rome shall fall from the faith . Now Heathen Rome could not fall from the faith , since it never professed the faith : therefore the prophecie is to bee fulfilled in Rome Papall , and Christian.

PA.

If thy brother offend thee , q q Math. 18.17 . tell the Church ; then must we needs know the Church .

PRO.

1. Wee are bid tell the Church , that is , her Pastors and Governours , when there is such a standing Ministery , and publike discipline exercised .

2. But in case Tyrants hinder the open meetings of Christians ; even then also in some good sort , though shee bee not so outwardly visible to her foes , yet may the Church take notice ; as the faithfull in the primative Church met together privately , and observed orders for reforming of abuses , being knowne one to another as friends , but unknowne ( as such ) to their foes .

In a word , one may tell the Church , though for the time shee bee hid from her foes ; even as one may tell a message to his friend , who for the time is hid from his enemie .

PA.

Some of yours say , r r Napier 〈◊〉 the Revel. P●op . 35. The Church was invisible for divers ages .

PRO.

They say not it was simply invisible , but they speake respectively ; so that looking on those times , which fell out somewhat before , and after the first sixe hundred yeeres , and seeing the title of Vniversall Bishop ( which Grego●y detested as s s Quisquis se univer●●le● Sa●er●otem ●o●at in ●●tion● suà Anti●h●●st in 〈…〉 . Greg. ●pi●t . lib. 6. ●p 30 to . 2. Antichristian ) setled on the Pope , about the yeere 666 , and that this t t Revel. 13.18 . number so fitly agreed to the Man of sinne : as also looking downeward to the thousand yeere , wherein Satan was u u Revel. 20.3 . loosed , and the Turke and Pope grew great ; looking hereon , and comparing the Church as shee was then ( under x x Gregory the seventh , Ann. 1075. Hildebrand , forbidding Marriage , and deposing the Emperour ) with her selfe in the primitive ages , they said shee was in manner invisible in the Westerne Horizon , to wit , in respect of that degree , and measure of the light of the Gospell that brake forth in the time of the Reformation . Besides , during the time mentioned , it was visible enough , in the Greeke and Easterne Church : and for the Westerne , it had the same subsisting and beeing with the best members in the Romane Church .

PA.

Master Napier saith , y y Napier on the Revelat. p. 68. & 191 & 161 cited by the Prot. Apologie tract. 2. cap. 1 sect 4. Our Religion hath raigned universally , and without any debatable contradiction 1260 yeeres ; Gods true Church most certainely abiding so long latent and invisible : And Master z z Perkins 〈◊〉 E●posit . of the Creed . pag. 400 Pe●kins saith , That for the space of many hundred yeeres , an universall Apostasie overspread the whole face of the earth , and that your Church was not visible to the world .

PRO.

Master Napier saith not , that your Religion raigned so universally ; neither doth hee speake in generall of the whole body of the Romish Faith , and of the universall Antiquitie thereof , which is the poynt in question ; but onely of the first originall of the papall dominion , and Antichristian kingdome , as hee calleth it , as Bishop Morton hath well a a Prot. Appeale . ● . 1. c. 8. sect. 2. in Marg. lit . F. observed : neither yet was this papall Hierarchie , or as Master Perkins calls it , b b Master Perkins on the Creed . pag. 307. popish Heresie of being intituled , Vniversall Bishop of the Church , carried without the opposition of severall Councells , and Worthies in Gods Church ; as ( God willing ) hereafter shall appeare .

For the place cited out of Master Perkins , it is as we in our common phrase of speech use to say , That all the world is set on mischiefe , because so many delight in wickednesse . Neither is this manner of speech unusuall in the Scriptures , From the Prophet to the Priest , all deale falsely , saith Ie●emy 6.13 . and c c Omnes querunt que 〈…〉 . 〈◊〉 in 2. 〈…〉 Ph●lip . Saint Paul saith , All secke their owne , and not that which is Iesus Christs , Phil. 2.21 . b●sides hee saith , I● had overspread the face of the earth : Now a large fi●ld may be over-spread with Tares and weedes , and yet some good corne in the field : Neither saith Master Perkins , that our Church was simply invisible , but that it was not visible , to the world ; and withall he tels us where it was . It lay hid ( saith he d d It lay hid un●e● the ch●ffe of Pope●●● , ●nd the t●uth of this , the Reco●ds o●●ll Ag●● ma●●fe●● . M. ●●rkins on the 〈◊〉 . ●ag . 4. ● . ) vnder the chasse of Poperie . Now the graine is not ut●erly invisible , whiles it is mingled with cha●se in the same heape .

PA.

Was not the Church ever gloriously visible ?

PRO.

It was not ; for ( as S. Austin 〈◊〉 in solo Ab●l 〈…〉 August . in Psal 12● tom. 8. saith ) it was sometimes onely in Abel , and he was slaine by his brother ; in Enoch , and hee was translated from the ungodly ; it was in the sole house of Abraham , Noah , and Lot .

Afterwards how was it so notably conspicuous , when as both Israel and Iudah fell to Idolatry , f f 2 〈◊〉 . 28.24 . & ●9 . 7.8 . in the times of Achaz and Manasse ? when as those Kings caused the Temple to be shut up , the Sacrifice to cease , and erected Idols in every Towne ?

Besides , at our Saviours comming , we find but a short Catalogue of true professors mentioned , to wit , Ioseph and Mary , Zacharie and Elizabeth , Simeon and Anna , the Shepherds in the fields , and some others .

When Christ suffered death , his little flocke ( as hee called it ) was scattered , his disciple ●led , and none almost durst shew themselves , save Mary and Iohn , and some few women , with o●hers .

After our Saviours death , the Apostles , and their followers were glad to meet in Chambers , whiles the Priests , Scribes and Pharisees bare all the sway in the Temple ; ●o that ( as the l l Page 1● . Treatise of the true C●urch●s visibilitie ha●h it ) if a we●ke body had then enquired for the Church , it is likely , they had beene directed to them .

In ●he time of those Ten persecutions , there could not be any knowne assembly of Christians , but foorthwith ●he Tyran●s labou●ed to root them out : but ( as T●rtullian saith ) m m S●men est Sanguls Christianorum . Tertull in Apologet. cap. 50 to . 1. The blood of the Martyrs was the seed of the Church , they were pe●secuted , and yet they increased .

Af●erwards , when the Arrian Heresie overspread all , so that all the world was against Athanasius , and he , and some few Confes●ors stood for the Nicen Faith ; ( insomuch as Hierome said , n n Ingem●it totus orbis , & Arri●num se esse miratus est . Hieron . advers. Luciferian . tom. 2. The world sighed and groaned , marveiling at it selfe , how it was become Arrian , ) what a slender appearance did the true professors then make ? and yet in such dangerous and revolting times , even small o o Math. 18.20 . Phil●m . 2. assemblies of particular congregations , wheresoever dispersed , serve to make up the universal Church Militant : so that the Reader is not to be discouraged , if hee find not the Protestant Assemblies so thronged , since it was not so with the primative Church ; and S. Iohn foretold , p p Apocal. 12 14. That the woman , that is , the Church , persecuted by the Dragon , that old Serpent the Devill , and his instruments , should flie into the Wildernesse , where the Lord promised to hide her , till the tempest of persecution were over-blowne ; wherein God dealt graciously with his Church , for had her enemies alwayes seene and knowne her professors , they would ( like cruell beastes ) have laboured to devoure the damme with her young , the mother with her children .

Now whereas the Papists brag of their Churches Visibilitie , their owne Rhemists are driven to confesse , q q Rhem. Annot. on Thessal. 2.2 . sect 6. that in the raigne of Antichrist , the outward state of the Romane Chu●ch , and the publike entercourse of the faithfull with the same , may cease , and practise their Religion in secret : And Iesuite Suarez thinkes it probable , r r Non est incredibile , Romam propè Antichrist● tempora , it a a●●lic●a● , ut quasi in Angulo , ●el in ●avernis terrae delitescat . Suarez Defensio fide● Cathol. lib. 5. c. 21. That the Pope shall professe his faith in secret . Where is then your Tabernacle in the Sunne ? your light in the Candlesticke ? when as your Church and Pope shall walke with a darke Lanterne , and say Masse in a corner .

PA.

Why was not the Church alwayes so conspicuous ?

PRO.

Because sometimes her best members , ( as Athanasius , Hilarie , Ambrose , and others ) were persecuted as Heretikes , and ungodly men ; and that by learned persons , and such as were powerfull in the world , able to draw great troupes after them , of such as for hope , favour , feare , or the like respects , were ready to follow them : In this , and the like case , when false Priestes broach errours , and deceive many , Tyrants persecute Gods Saints , and cause others to retire ; then I say , ( when the faithfull want their ordinarie entercourse one with another ) the number of the Church malignant maybe great , in comparison of those that belong to the true Church .

PA.

If the Church were not alwayes so conspicuous , in what sort then was it visible ? a visible Church you grant .

PRO.

In the generall militant Church , there have in all ages been some Pastors and people , more or lesse , that have outwardly taught the truth of Religion in substance , though not free from errour in all poynts ; and these have beene visible by their ordinary standing in some part of Gods Church .

Besides , for the more part there have bin also some , that withstood and condemned the grosse errours and superstition of their times ; and these good men , whiles they were suffered , taught the truth openly ; but being persecuted by such as went under the Churches name , even then also they taught , and administred the Sacraments in private , to such faithfull ones as would joyne with them ; and even in those harder times , they manifested their Religion by their Writings , Letters , Confessions ; at their Iudgement , Martyrdome , or otherwise , as they could .

Now ( as learned Doctor White in his Defence of his Brothers booke hath observed ) u u The Orthodoxe F●i●h . chap. 3. Paragraph 3. whensoever there bee any Pastors in the world , which ●ither in an open view , or in the presence of any part thereof doe exercise ( though in private ) the actions of true Religion , by sound teaching the truth , and right administration of the Sacraments , this is sufficient to make the Church visible , by such a manner of visibilitie , as may serve for the gathering and preserving of Gods elect . Now such visible Pastors and people , the Protestant Church was never utterly destitute of .

PA.

You seeme to make the Church both visible , and invisible .

PRO.

May not one bee within , and seene with his friends , and yet hidden to his enemies ? visible to the seeing , and invisible to the blind ? Indeed Tyrants , Infidells , and Heretikes , they knew the true beleevers , as men of another profession ; but blinded with malice and unbeliefe , they acknowledged them not for true professors : * * Acts and Monuments . vol. 2. lib. 10. pa. 1616. as M. Bradford told D. Day , Bishop of Chichester ; the fault why the Church is not seene of you , is not because the Church is not visible , but because your eyes are not cleare enough to see it ; and indeed , such as put not on the spectacles of the Word to finde out the Church , but seeke for her in outward pompe , are much mistaken .

Aelian in his History tels us of one Nicostratus , who being a well-skilled Artisan , and finding a curious piece of worke drawne by Xeuxis that famous Painter , one who stood by , wondered at him , and asked him , what pleasure hee could take , to stand as hee did , still gazing on the picture : to whom hee answered ; x x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . AElian . 〈◊〉 Histor. lib. 14. cap. 47. Hadst thou mine eyes , my friend , thou wouldest not wonder , nor aske me that question , but rather be ravished as I am at the inimitable art of this rare and admired piece . In like manner , if our Adversaries had their eyes annoynted with the eye-salve of the holy Spirit , they might easily discover the Protestant Church , and her visible congregations . The Aramites , 2 Kings 6. chap. could not discerne the citie of Samaria , whither the Prophet led them , untill their eyes were opened ; no more can one discerne , or difference the true Church from the malignant , and conventicles of the wicked , untill his mind bee enlightned . And thus Saint Austin told the Donatists , * * Mo●tem non vident , nolo ●●●●eris ; oculos non habent . August . Tract. 1. in epist. Ioan. tom. 9. They could not see the Church on the hill , because their eyes were blinded , to wit , either with ignorance , or malice .

Saint Austin compares y y Ecclesia propter ipsam mutabilitatem Luna nomine in Scripturis signatur . Aug. tom. 8 in Psal. 10. & tom. 2. ●p. 119. the Church to the Moone , which waxeth and waneth , is eclipsed , and sometime , as in the change , cannot be seene ; yet none doubts but still there is a Moone . The Church sometimes shines in the cleare dayes of peace , and is by and by over-cast with a cloud of persecution , as the same Austin z z Aliquando obscuratur . Id. ep. 48. saith : The Moone is not alwayes in the Full , nor the Church ever in her glorious aspect .

PA.

If your Church were alwayes visible , where then was it before Luthers time ?

PRO.

I might also aske you , Where was a great part of your Religion before the Trent Councell , which was but holden about the yeere 1534.

Now for our Religion , it was for substance , and in the affirmative parts , and positive grounds thereof , ( the question being not of every accessory , and secondary poynt , ) it was I say , contained in the Canonicall Scriptures , wheras you are driven to seeke yours in the Apocryphall , in the Trent Creed , the Trent Councell . Now ours it was contained in the Apostles Creed , explayned in the Nicene and Athanasian , confirmed by the first foure generall Councels , taught in the undoubted writings of the true , ancient , and orthodox Fathers of the primative Church , justi●ied from the tongue and penne of our adversaries ; witnessed by the confessions of our Martyrs , which have suffered for truth , and not for treason . This is the Evidence of our Religion ; whereas for proofe of yours , in divers poynts , you are driven to flie to the bastard Treatises of false Fathers , going under the name of Abdias Linus , Clemens , S. Denys , and the like ; as sometime Perkin Warbek a base fellow feigned himselfe to be King Edward the fourths sonne , and for a time went under his a a Fabian . Chron. ad Ann. 1495. name : and yet these Knights of the poste , must be brought in to depose on your behalfe , though others of your side have cashiered them as counterfeits b b Se● D Iames of the Bastardy of false Fathe●s , and D. Raynolds Conference , Chap 8. Divis. 2. .

PA.

If your Professors were so visible , name them .

PRO.

This is no reasonable demaund ; you have rased our Records , conveied our Evidence , clapt up our Witnesses , and suborned your owne ; you have for your owne advantage , ( as is already showen by that learned Antiquary of Oxford , D. Iames c c A Treatise of the corruption of Scripture , Councels , Fathers . , and others , and shall ( God willing ) appeare in the Centuries following , ) you have I say , corrupted Councells , Fathers , and Scriptures , by purging and prohibiting what Authors , and in what places you would ; and now you call us to a tryall of Names .

PA.

Particular men may mis-coat the Fathers , but our Church hath not .

PRO.

You have ; witnesse your expurgatory and prohibitory Indices , or Tables , whereof since my selfe have of late bin an eye-witnesse , and seene divers of them both in the publike and private Libraries in Oxford ; I will therefore acquaint the Reader with the mysterie thereof .

When that politike Councel of Trent perceived , that howsoever men might bee silenced , yet bookes would be blabs , and tell truth , they devised this course : They directed a Commission to a company of Inquisitors , residing in severall places , and therby gave them power to purge and prohibit all manner of Bookes , Humanitie and Divinitie , ancient & late , in such sort as they should think fit . Vpon this Commission , renued as occasion served , the Inquisitors set forth their severall expurgatory , and prohibitory Indices , printed at Rome , in Spaine , in the Low-countries , and elsewhere ; and in these Tables ( yet to be seen ) they set down what books were by them forbidden , and which to be purged , and in what places ought were to bee left out , whensoever the Workes should be printed anew : for according to their Tables or Corrections , books were to be printed afresh . Now to make sure worke , they got as many of the former Editions of the Fathers workes , as they could , into their hands , and suffered no new Copie to come foorth , but through their fingers , purged according to their Receit : neither feared they that their adversaries would set foorth the large volumes of the Fathers Workes , or others , having not the meanes to vent their Impressions , being forbidden to be sold in Catholike countries . By this meanes , the Romane Censurers thought to stop all tongues and pennes , that none should hereafter speake or write otherwise than the Trent Councell had dictated● and so in time all Evidence should have made for the Romane cause .

Hereby the Reader may perceive , that had their device gone on , they would in time , by their chopping and changing the writings of the Ancient at their pleasure , have rased and defaced whatsoever Evidence had made for us , and against themselves . But so it pleased God , that howsoever they had carried the matter cunningly in secret , yet at length all comes out , their plot was discovered , and their Indices came into the Protestants hands . The Index of Antwerpe was discovered by Iunius d d D. Iames part 4. of the Mysterie o● the Indices expurgatorij . pag. 21. ; the Spanish and Portugall was never knowne till the taking of Cales , and then it was found by the English .

PA.

Might wee not purge what was naught ?

PRO.

Indeed , if you had purged or prohibited the lewd writings of wanton Aretine , railing Rablais , or the like , you had done well : but under-hand to goe and purge out the wholesome sentences of the Fathers , such as were agreeable to the Scriptures ; thus to purge those good old men , till you wrung the very blood and life out of them , bewrayeth , that you have an ill cause in hand , that betakes it selfe to such desperate shifts .

Neither can you justly say , that you have corrected what others marred : for it was your side that first kept a tampering with the Fathers Works , and corrupted them . Francis Iunius reports , e e ●unius in praefatione arte ●ndicem Expu●gato ium B●lgi●um ● se editum . 1586. referente Andr●● Rivet lib. 3. Critici Sacri . cap. 16. that hee comming ( in the yeare 1559 ) to a familiar friend of his , named Lewis Savarius , Corrector of a Print at L●yden , found him over-looking Saint Ambrose Workes , w●ich Fr●llonius was printing ; whereof when Iunius commended the elegancie of the Letter and Edition , the Corrector told him secretly , it was of all Editions the worst ; and drawing out many sheets of now waste paper from under the table , told him , they had printed those sheetes according to the ancient and authenticke Copies : but two Franciscan Fryers had by their authoritie cancelled and rejected them , and caused other to bee printed , and put in their roomes , differing from the truth of all their owne books , to the great losse of the Printer , and wonder of the Corrector : so that had yo● prevailed , neither olde nor new , Greeke , nor Latin Fathers , nor later Writers , had been suffered to speake the truth , but ei●her ( like Parra●s ) been ta●ght to lispe Popery , or for ever bee● put to sil●nce . The best is , the Manuscripts ( which by Gods providence are still preserved amongst us ) they m●ke for us , as D. Iames , excellently vers'd in Antiquitie , hath showen at large D. Ia●e● his Manuduction to Divinitie . .

PA.

Have ●ee purged ought in the Fathers , or Scriptures , that was not to bee purged ?

PRO.

You have , as appeares by these instances following ; St. Chrysostome in his third Sermon u●on Lazarus , and elsewhere maintaineth th● pe●spicuitie and plainnesse of the Scrip●ures , saying , g g In 〈◊〉 S●riptur●s 〈…〉 quaecunque ●unt nec●ssaria Ch●ysos● . tom. 4. in 2 Thess●l . h●mil . 3. That in divine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine . Hee likewise holdeth , that faith onely sufficeth in stead of all , saying , h h Illud unum ass●verave●im , quod so●a fides p●r se salvum sec●rit Chry. ●o. 3. de Fide & L●ge natu●● . & to . 1. in P●al. 13. This one thing I will affirme , That faith onely by it se●fe sa●eth . In like sort Saint Hierome holds , i i Impium per sol●m ●idem ●usti●icat De●s Hier. to . 9. in ca. 4. ad Rom. That faith only justifieth , that workes doe not justifie , that Images are not to be adored . Now all this is to be found , even totidem ve●bis , in the selfe same termes in the Fat●ers text ; and yet the Index of Spaine ( published by Cardin●ll Quiroga , and reprinted at Samur , by the honour of the French Gentilitie , the Lord of Plessis ) comes in , and gives these Fa●hers a strong purge , commaunding k k ●x Chrysost●mi Indice edit . Basi●●ae delea●tur — Iusti●●●●tio ex fide sol● ; Scripturae omnibu● volentibus perviae ac ●a●ile● — ●x Ind●ce Hieroa●●●●●lende sunt — Fides sola justi●icat . Imago 〈◊〉 tanti● veneranda . Opera non justi●i 〈◊〉 p. 106 Index libr. Expu●gat . per Q●●rog . Sal●u●i . 1601. & M 〈◊〉 . 1584. all the sentences above named , to bee blotted out of the Fathers Indices , or Tables .

In like sort hath another Index of Spaine l l Ind●x 〈◊〉 j●ssu Be●nar●i ●e Sand●●al & R●xas M●●i●i , 1●●2 . & per ●ur●etin ●en●u● 1019. , printed at Madrill , reprinted by Turretine , and still preserved and kept in the Archivis , or Treasurie of Monuments in the ●ublike Libra●y at Oxford , dealt with the Index , or Table of S. Austin and Athanasius , as by these few instances may appeare .

Blot out , say the Spanish Inquisitors , m m Ex Indi●e Augustini delent , Non m●r●t● nostra● seu● 〈…〉 De●● coro●●t in nob●● ; ●el●nt● Sancti ●o●norandi imit●ti●●e , non ad●ratio●e ; Ex Athanasij Ind●ce d●●ent , Ad●ra●i solius Dei est . Creatura nulla ad●ran●● . Creatura● creatura no● ado●er . Index Expurgator● quo su●ra . these words out of Saint Austins Index , to wit , Wh●n God crowneth our merit●s ( that is good deeds ) hee crowneth nothing else but his owne gifts : and , The Saints are to bee honoured for imitation , not to bee adored for Religion : as also out of Athanasius Index , that God onely is to bee worshipped , that the creature is not to adore the creature . Now all these must bee rased out , notwithstanding they bee the selfe-same words , which these Fathers used in the Text n n Ipsissima verba sun Augustini ; C●m Deus coronat merita nostra , nihil aliud coronat quam munera sua . tom. 2. ep. 105. Et Honorandi sunt propter imitationem , non adorandi propter religionem . tom. 1. de vera relig cap. 55. & 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Athanas. orat . 3. contra A●rianos . .

Now this is no good dealing , since these Tables and Indices t●uely gathered out of the Fathers Workes , might have served for a hand to poynt at the chiefest Sentences in each Au●hour ; but they have either remooved , or turned the hand aside , to the great hi●derance of those , which upon a sudden occasion are to see what such a Father saith to such a point , and have not the leasure to peruse over the whole booke .

PA.

We have not purged the Fathers Text , but only the Index .

PRO.

You have put out the very Text it selfe out of Saint Cy●ill , whose words are ; o o Cy●il . Al●xandr . to. 5. comment . in Esaiam lib. 1. cap. 1. Fidei autem gratiam , &c. Now this faith which is the gift and grace of God , is sufficient to purge , not onely them which find themselves somewhat ill , but those also that are dangerously diseased : Now all this is commanded to be blotted out by the expurgatory Index of Spaine p p Ex Divi Cyrilli Commentarijs in Isaiam Laurentio Humphredo int●rp●ete ; ●x T●xtu deleantur illa verba ; Fidei autem gratiam , cùm his qui valdè inquinati sunt , tùm etiam paulùm m●rbo ●ff●ctis , satis ad emundationem valituram esse fidem dicit . Index Expurg . per Quirog . Mad●id● 1584. .

Neither can it be justly replied , that these words are put out of Cyril , as not being the Authors words , or not truely translated by our men ; for they bee Cyrils owne words faithfully translated , and the copie agreeth with the Originall ; yea , this golden sentence thus rased , is still to bee found in Cyrils Workes , set fo●th by your owne man Gentian Hervet .

Neither yet hath Gods Booke escaped your finge●s , witnesse the Bible set forth by your owne men : q q The B●ble of Robert Stephens , with the double Text , and Vatablus Annotations . there wee reade in the Text [ Levit. 26. chap. ] according to your translation ; Thou shalt not make to thy selfe an Idoll , and graven thing : your Index saith , r r Deleatur illud , Sculptilia prohibet si●ri . Ind. Expurg . per Quirog . Madrid . 1584. Blot this out of the marg●nt , that graven things are forbidden .

Againe the Text saith [ 1. King . 7.3 . ] Prepare your hearts to the Lord , and serve him onely ; your Index saith , s s Deleantur illa Verba . rv●endum soli Deo . Blot out this glosse , that wee must serve God onely . Besides , Christ is noted to bee the sacrifice for our sinnes ; now these words , Christ is the sacrifice for our sinnes , must bee dashed out t t Psal. 39. lit B. ad ma●g deleantur illa verba ; Christus hostia p●o peccatis nostris . . In like sort , they have blotted out these words in Vatablus Annotations u u Ex Bibl. Vatabl. Annot. Esai● 8. nu 32. de●●nt ; Qui c●edent in Deum , sal●● 〈◊〉 ; qu● verò non● peribunt . ●ud . Ex●●●● . M●drit . 1612. ; They that beleeve in God shall be saved , and they that beleeve not shall perish .

Now if these sayings alleadged , be to be found in the Fathers and Scriptures , not onely in the same sense , but totidem verbis , in the same termes ; why doe they then blot them out of the Fathers Indices , or the Margents and Concordances of the Bible ? they might as well raze them out of the very Text of Fathers and Scripture ; but this they durst not openly attempt , and therefore under hand they wound both Scripture and Fathers through the sides of their Expugatorie and Prohibitorie Tables .

PA.

Your men have published Parsons Resolutions , and Granadoes Meditations , and therein have changed and altered divers sentences .

PRO.

Some private men amongst us have dealt so with some late Writers ; but withall they professed , that they had changed and altered their words ; thereby to shew , that with a little helpe , your bookes , such as doe tend to godlinesse of life , might lawfully bee r●ad of us ; now what you did , you did it secretly , and under hand , whereas ours dealt plainly and openly . Besides , you have altered , and changed the writings of the Ancient at your pleasure ; and then would make the World bel●eve , you have onely corrected the faults of the Print , or some such matter .

Now as you worke by your Expurgatory Indices ; so doe you also by your other tricke of Prohibitorie ; whereof you make this use , that in case ( upon the evidence given in by good Authors ) the verdict bee like to goe on our side ; then you bring a Prohibition● and remove the matter to be tried by Tradition .

But it is no wonder you prohibit our Writers ; for you have forbid Gods Booke ; and called it into the Inquisition ; Forbidding the having , or reading of any part of the Bible in the vulgar Tongue x x Quaeritur , 〈◊〉 ex●ediat sacra volumina in verna●ulas linguas converti● Resp●ndeo , min●m● , qui● 〈◊〉 variae haeresi●● & 〈◊〉 caus● nas●●re●tur . Az●r●us Ins●i● . Mor●l . to . 1. lib. 8 cap 26. p●g. 715. , tho it be set forth by Catholikes ; and , howsoever you winke at the matter where you cannot helpe it , yet in countries generally Popish , as in Spaine , and elsewhere , The Bible and each part thereof in the vulgar tongue , is utterly prohibited , as your owne Iesuit witnesseth y y In H●spania , in Indice librorum prohib . — Regula sexta sic habet . Prohibentur Biblia in vulgari li●gua , cum omnibus suis partibus . Azo●us quo sup●à pag. 714. .

And this have divers felt with us in Queene Maries dayes , and of late Iohn Murrey z z Episcop. Eliensis in Respons. ad Apolog. Bellar. cap. 11. pag. 266. a Merchant of Aberden in Scotland , who having a New Testament in the ship , was accused by the Serchers , brought before the Inquisition , and lost both his goods and life for it .

To close up this point , you have laboured to roote out all memory of our Professors : for example sake , Is King Edward the sixth stiled ( and that worthily ) A Prince of admirable towardnesse ? Is Fredericke Duke of Saxonie tearmed , Christianissimus Princeps , A most Christian Prince ; this commendation of King Edward must be left out in the next impression , & so must the Dukes title of Christian Prince : and thus they deale with our Writers , Is Melanch●on tearmed A man famous for all kind of learning ? and Bucer sirnamed the Divine ? doth Beatus Rhenanus in his notes upon Tertullian call Pelicane A man of admirable learning and holinesse of life ? All these Epithets and Titles the Romish Inquisitors have commanded to be blotted out a a Pag. 148. Ex Michaelis Beutheri Fastis & Ephimerid . ubi agit de Phil. Melanchtone , deleantur illa verba , Vi● in omni literarum genere clarissimus . Mart. Bucerus Theologus , deleatur verbum Theologus , Frideric . Christianiss . Princeps , deleantur illae du● voces , Christianiss . Princeps . Edovardus sextus admirandae indolis adoles●ens ; deleā●ur haec verba , Admirandae indolis adolescens . Ex Beati Rh●nani notis in T●rtulliani librum de Corona Militis , deleantur illa verba , Pelicanus homo mira sanctitatis ac eruditionis . Index Expurgat . per Quirogam Salmuri 1601. & Madriti 1584. . Yea , whereas Oecolampadius and Doctor Humfrey of Oxford have taken good paines in translating some parts of Cyrils Works , they a●e but slenderly rewarded ; for Possevine b b Oecolampadius & Laur. Humf●edus aliqua Cyrilli verterun , in quibus eorum nomen imprimis eradendum est . Possevini apparat . to . 1. verbo Cyrillus . saith , that by all meanes their names must bee razed out of those Translations . And another Iesuite tells us c c Ex●ungenda sunt nomina , nisi in libris Catholicorum hae●etici nominentur per ignominiam et contemp●um . Azor. mor. Instit. li. 8. cap. 26. pag. 676. , that Our names must not be suffered to stand upon Record : nor Protestant Writers once so much as to bee named either in their owne Workes or others , unlesse it bee per contemptum , by way of scorne and reproach ; and yet you bid us name our men .

PA.

Wee have purged some bookes , but not corrupted the Scriptures .

PRO.

Your Trent Councell makes d d venerutur●yn●d ●yn●d . ●nd . Sell. 4. Decr. 2. Traditions of equall credit , and to be embraced with the like godly affection , as the Scriptures are to be reverenced . Is not this to mingl● water with wine , base mettall with good Bullion ? and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture .

Besides , you have ( which is e e Revelat. 22.18.19 . fearefull ) detracted from Gods Word , tha● which was written with his owne finger , to wit , the second Commandement , against the worship of Images ; and because the words thereof are sharpe , and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie , you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes , f f Vaux Catechisme pag. 31 What is the ●econd C●●m●ndement of God ? 〈…〉 t●ke the Name o● GOD in vaine — & pag. 51.52 . ●e subd●vides ●he tenth Commandement , and so it is in 〈◊〉 Catechisme Prayer bookes , and in your Office of the blessed Virgin , set foorth by commaund of g g Ossi ●u● B. M●●ae P● . v. P●nt . ●●ssu ●dit . A●twerp . M. D. &c. Pius Quintus ; and to salve up the matter , lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements , you have cut the tenth into two . You might well have left the words ●here , that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement , howsoever they had counted it , the first , or the second .

Now , as you have detracted , so you have added to the rule of Faith , by thrusting into the Canon , the Apocryphall bookes , which Hierome ( the best languaged of all the Father , ) h h Hi●ronym tom. 3. in Prologo Gal●ato in Prae●at . in lib. Reg. rejected .

Lastly , you doe not only allow , but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture , to wit , the vulgar Latine Edition , whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals . Now surely , wee may better trust an originall Record , than a Copie extracted thence ; and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head , than at a corrupt and muddie streame . Now the Latine Edition ( which you follow , and preferre before all others ) it is but a Translation it selfe ; but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow , are the Well-springs and Originalls . Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture , to bind all men , ( as your Trent Councell doth i i Nemo illam reij cere quovis praetextu audeat . Synod . Trid. Sess. 4. ) that none dare presume to reject this Translation ; which by your owne men is confessed k k Quanquam eam quae passim legitur D. Hieronymi Germanam editionem haudquaquàm esse arbitramur . Sanctes Pagnin . praef. suae inte●pret . Biblior . ad Clem. 7. Pont. not to be Saint Hier●mes , and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side l l B. Mortons Prot. Appeale . lib. 4. c 18. sect. 3.

PA.

I looke to have your Professors named .

PRO.

Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred , and made away ; returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library , and elsewhere , and wee accept your challenge . But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named ? and why so ? the true Church of God may bee visible , though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed : there might be thousands of professors in former ages , and yet ( happily ) no particular authentick Record of their names now extant ; or if extant , yet so as we cannot come by them . Neverthelesse ( to answere you at your owne weapon ) I hope to make it cleare , that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church , as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth , that are ready to be deposed on our side , and that successively from age to age : so that I may say , as Saint Ambrose did in the like case ; m m Et literas quidem potuistis abolere , sed fidem non potuistis au●erre . Ambros . ●om. 2. de Spirit● Sancto . lib. 3. cap. 11. You may well blot out our Letters , but our Faith you shall never abolish . Papists may conceale our evidence , and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records ; but when all is done , the Protestants faith is perpetuall .

Now , in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie , we doe not this , as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church , to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages ; but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause , and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adve●saries ; For it is Tertullians Rule , n n Tamen in ea●em side ●onspirantes non mi●us 〈◊〉 d●pu●antur pro ●●orsangui●●●ate 〈◊〉 ●e●●ullian . de 〈◊〉 ●dve●s 〈…〉 tom. 2. that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike , if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles . Now , what though we could no● successively name such as taught as we doe ; yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church , ( having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors , ( it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion , which the holy Apostles taught , and Christ would have to be perpetuall ; this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession , although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors .

Now , that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages , to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof , I will beginne with the fi●st 600. yeares next after Christ ; wherein ten severall times during the fi●st three Centuries , the Church was persecuted by Tyrants , and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes ; yet in the end , Truth prevailed against Error , and Patience overcame her Pers●cutors . This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell , challenged the Papists , to shew any Orthodoxe Father , Councell , or Doctor , that for the space of those 600 Yeares , taught as the present Church of Rome did : the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend , that worthy Divine , Doctor Featly of Oxford , challenging o o the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors , any Citie , Parish , or Hamlet , within 500. yeares next after Christ , wherein there was any visible assembly , that maintained in generall , the Articles of the Trent Councell , or such and such points of Popery , as at the Conference hee named in particular . Now of this period , the first 300. yeares thereof , were the very flower of the Primitive Church , because that in the●e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught , by Christ and his Apostles , and that in their owne persons ; as also by othe●s that lived to heare , see , and converse with those blessed Apostles , and disciples of Christ Iesus ; and this ( haply ) made Egesippus , an ancient Authour , call the Church of those dayes , p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Hegesippus apud Euseb lib. 3. Hist. cap. 32. & lib. 4. cap. 22. edit. Graec. an uncorrupt and virgin Church : and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour , which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up : neither indeed for the space of these first 300 , could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing , their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched , their purgatory fire was yet unkindled ; it made not ( as afterwards ) their pot boyle , and their kitchin smoake ; the Masse was yet unmoulded , Transubstantiation was yet unbaked , the treasury of Merits was yet unminted , the Popes transcendent power was uncreated , Ecclesiastickes were unexempted , and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of : the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup , Communion under one kinde , was not yet in kinde , it was not then knowne , that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne : they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god ; they worshipt that which they knew , and that in Spirit and truth q q Iohn 4.22.24 . , and they called on him , in whom they beleeved r r Rom. 10.14 : so did they , and so doe wee . In a word , in the former ages of the Church , Satan was bound , after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed , and after the middle of the second Millenary , about the yeare 1370 , hee was bound anew . Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares , The Estate of the Church in the 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , and 11 Age. it grew very corrupt : so that of these times we may say , as Winefridus , borne at Kirton in Devonshire , after surnamed Boniface , was wont to say , s s Beat Rhenanus lib. 2 rerum Germanic . pag. 98. Bonifacius rogatus an licéret ligneis cal●●ibus sacrificare ; respondit , oli● aureos sacerdotes ligneis vas●ulis litasse nunc vers● vice ligneos aureis ●ti . In old time there were golden Prelates , and woodden Chalices , but in his time woodden Prelates , and golden Chalices ; knowledge was now decayed , Princes , Prelates and others were now more busied in building , or beautifying materiall Temples and Chappels , than in the gathering together of living stones , and reedifying Gods spirituall Temple : so that in this time of Monkery , many religious Houses were erected , either out of voluntary Devotion , or enjoyned Penance : Now , insteed of the right administration of the Word and Sacraments , came in the dumbe guize of the Masse ; and the people instead of the pure milke of the Word , were intertained with feigned Liturgies , Legends , and Miracles , & their consciences loaden with a number of unprofitable Ceremonies , and unwarrantable Traditions ; now there was great con●idence put in holy Graines , hallowed Beades , Agnus Dei's , and the like Babies ; and the honour due to the Creator , was given to the crea●ure . Now the people made many fond vowes , went many merry Pilgrimages , and beheld many garish Processions ; now they were taught that ab●tinence from meates and drinkes was Meritorious ; that the opus operatum , the worke done was sufficient in their Sacraments , and their Devotions , and much of this service performed in an unknowne tongue . Now the crownes of Martyrdome wherewith the first Bishops of Rome were honoured , were changed into a Triple Crowne , and the Pastorall Staffe , beganne to quarrell with the Princely Scepter ; and all these things were carried by the name of the Church , the People many of them beleeving as the Church beleeved , and this Church was the Roman , and this Roman Church , was the Pope .

The Chur●hes state in the 12.13.14.15 . and 16. ●entu●●●s . Concerning the Church in the next 500. yeares , even to these our times ; the Church began to recover her strength● and the light of the Gospell was notably discovered by Waldus in France , and his followers , Wickliffe in England , Iohn Hus , and Martin Luther in Germanie . Now also by the benefit of Printing ( which was found out in the fifteenth Century , ) the Tongues came to bee knowne , Knowledge increased , Bookes were dispersed , and Learning communicated ; the Scriptures were perused , the Doctors and Fathers read , Stories opened , Times compared , Truth discerned , and Falshood detected .

Now because there hath already , and will hereafter be occasion to speak of Antichrist ; I will therfore heere point out his severall Ages . About the yeare 607. Antichrist began in part to appeare and show himselfe , rising by degrees untill he came to the height of impietie ; for as other things , so Antichrist also , was to have his rising , growth , height , and fall ; even as monstrous and huge Beasts goe with their young ones many yeares , as other creatures doe many monthes . The maine strength of the Romish Antichrist consisted in those two Swords , the Spirituall and Temporall ; now the Pope did not at once attaine to the managing of these two Swords ; but by degrees he came to usurpe this two-handed Sword .

The first step that hee made to the throne of pride , was about the yeare , 607 , when Pope Boniface the third , by the grant of that murderer Phocas , tooke to himselfe the Title , Authoritie , and Supremacie over the whole Church .

The next time , that he notoriously shewed himselfe , was after the thousand yeare , when Gregory the ●eventh claimed and usurped both the Swords ; that is , a Soveraigne and Universall Iurisdiction , not onely Ecclesiasticall over the Clergie , but also Temporall over Kings and Emperours : unto this second Soveraigntie they had long aspired , but never attained untill the time of this Hildebrand , in whom Antichrist came to his growth : yea , the Pope was discovered to be Antichrist by those Catholike Bishops , the Bishop of Florence x x Florentinus Episcopus a●firmare solitus [ est ] Antichristum natum esse . Platina in Paschal . 2. , and Robert Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne y y Ergò si qui● animas perdere non ●ormidat , nonnè Antichristus meritò est dicendus ? Math. Paris . in Henr. 3. ad an. 1253. , and others . Vpon this discovery of the Man of Sinne , sundry of Gods people refusing the Marke of the Beast , severed themselves from the Papall Communion ; whereupon the Pope and his Faction raised grievous persecutions against the servants of God .

To speake yet more particularly ; the degrees of Antichrist may thus be reckoned . He had his Birth or rising in Boniface the third , Anno 607. who tooke to himselfe that Antichristian title , of universall Bishop , which his Predecessor Gregorie so greatly condemned . Hee had his growth , Ann. 788. or increase in the time of Pope Adrian the first , and the second Councell of Nice , who jointly agreed to set up the Adoration of Images , and the practice therof to be generally received in the Church .

Ann. 1●75 . Hee came to his Kingdome , and reigned in Pope Hildebrand , who excommunicated and deposed Henry the fourth , the lawfull Emperour , and gave away his Empire to Rodulph , and after his death to others .

Ann. 1517. He was in his jollitie , and triumphed in Pope Leo the tenth , and his Lateran Councell ; s●ewing himselfe a God in pardoning sinnes , delivering soules out of Purgatorie , defining Faith ; setting himselfe above a generall Councell , controuling , and judging all men , himselfe to be judged by none ; professing ( for so it is recorded of Gregory the seventh a a 〈◊〉 Deus 〈◊〉 se errare n●● p●sse gloreatur . Ave●t n. Annal. Bo●o●●● l●● 5. p●g● 5●3 . ) That he was a God , and could not erre .

In a word , ( as my learned kinsman hath deciphered him ) b b 〈◊〉 of the sit● 〈…〉 Co●n●ell . 〈◊〉 ●3 . 〈…〉 . when he usurped an universall authoritie over all Bishops , the Pope was but Antichrist Nascent ; when he maintained the doctrine of Adoration of Images , he was Antichrist Crescent ; when hee exalted himselfe above all Kings and Emperours , hee became Antichrist regnant ; but when he was made Lord of the Catholike Faith , so that none must beleeve more , nor lesse , nor otherwise then hee prescribed , hee became Antichrist Triumphant . Thus did the Pope in processe of time become a perfect Antichrist , playing the Hypocrite and Tyrant , both in Church and State ; exalting himselfe a● a Monarch over Gods house ; making his owne word , and definition , of equall authoritie with holy c c

〈◊〉 Pontisi●is Summ●● 〈◊〉 & 〈…〉 lib. 2. c●p. 2.

〈…〉 B●ll●r . lib. p●imo pag. 1● . c●p . 〈…〉 .

●t pl●●è appareat ex 〈◊〉 p●pe●disse Rom●ni fo●tif●●is Fidei Decre●● san●●●e & sancita mu●●re . Baron . ad ●nn . 373. ●um . 21.

Scripture ; usurping temporal Iurisdiction over Civill States , murthering Christs servants that yeelded not to his becke . His last Age , is his declining age , wherein the Lord by the spirit of his mouth [ 2 Thess. 2.8 . ] that is , by the Ministerie of his Word , Shall consume this Man of Sinne ; and this is come to passe in part ; For hee is already fallen into a Consumption , whereon he irrecoverably languisheth , notwithstanding all the help that can be made him , by his Colledge of Physicians , Canonists , Schoolemen , Priests and Iesuits ; but for his finall Destruction wee must expect it at the glorious comming of our blessed Saviour .

The summe of all is this , the Pope having pearkt himselfe above his fellow Bishops , it grieved him to be subject to Kings and Emperours ; not to exalt himself above them , he distracted both Church and State in the point of Image-worship , which occasioned much bloodshed in Christendome , and then having weakened the Empire , he became superior to Kings and Emperours : there being nothing now but the Church in his way , he preuailed over it by his Lateran Flatterers , who set the Pope above a generall Councel , that is , aboue Gods Church ; a Generall Councell being indeed the Representative Church of God here on earth , and the Pope himselfe being the Vertuall Church , for so Gretser confesseth , d d Per Ecclesiam intelligimus pontificem Remanum . Grets . Def. cap. 10. li. 3 de verbo Dei § Iam. p. 1450. & ibid. A● . pag. 1451. non abnuo . that by the Church they do meane the Pope for the time being . Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government , the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment ; by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors ; by his Excommunications , Absolutions , and Dispensations , he rose to his greatnesse of state ; by the doctrine of workes meritorious , Iubilees , Pardons , and Indulgences , hee maintained his State .

And now I come to shew out of good Authors , that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion , the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares , have taught as the Church of England doth .

THE FIRST CENTVRIE , From the first yeare of Grace , unto the yeare One Hundred . Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders .
PAPIST .

WHom doe you name in this first Age , that taught the Protestant Faith ?

PROTESTANT .

I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus , and his Apostles , Saint Paul , and his Schollers , Titus and Timothie , together with the Churches which they planted , as that of the Romanes , Corinthians , and the rest . These I name for our first Founders , and top of our kin , as also Ioseph of Arimathea , that buried Christs body , a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land . These taught for substance , and in the positive grounds of religion , as we doe in our Articles , Liturgies , Homilies and Apologies , by publike authoritie established in our Church of England . Besides these , there were but few Writers in this age , whose undoubted Works have come to our hands ; yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ , Ignatius Bishop of Antioch , who for the name of Iesus , was sentenced to bee d●voured of wild beasts , which hee patiently indured , saying , a a Euseb Histor ●●cles . lib 3. cap. 33. I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts , that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth : let fire , rackes , pulleys , yea , and all the torments of Hell come on mee , so I may winne Christ . Here also , according to the Roman Register , I might place Dionysius Areopagita , whom they usually place in this first Age , as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the b b Acts 17.34 . Actes , whereas indeed hee is a post natus , and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age , and not in this first ; for Denys c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Dionys. epist. ad Demophil . saith , That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes , and the Chancell severed , with such and such sanctification , from the rest of the Church ; whereas the Christians in this fi●st age , made their assemblies to prayer , both in such private places , and with such simplicitie , as the Apostles d d Acts 1.13 . & 12.12 . & 20 8. did , and as the times of persecution suffered * * Andr. Rivet . Critici Sacri . lib. 1. cap 9. rat. 6. them .

Againe , Denys tells us , that when hee wrote , Monkes were risen , e e Dionys. Eccles. Hierar●h . cap. 6. and they of credit in the Churches , and many Ceremonies to hallow them ; whereas in the Apostles time , when the true Dionysius lived , Monkes were not heard of ; yea , Chrysostome saith , f f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . C●●ys . Homil 25 in Moral . super cap. 11. ep ad Hebr. That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes , there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke .

PA.

I challenge Saint Denys for ours ; hee was ( as our Rhemists g g Rhemists Annot. on Acts 17. say ) all for the Catholikes .

PRO.

Take him as he is , and as he comes to our hands , hee is not wholly yours , but in some things cleane contrary to you ; as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , wherein you vary from us most . Besides , hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest , nor ministring under one kind to them who receive , nor Exhortations , Lessons , Prayers , in a tongue which the people understand not , he hath not your Invocation of Saints , no● adoration of creatures , nor sacrificing of Christ to God , nor praying for the soules in purgatory : so that in things of substance , and not of ceremony onely , he is ours , and not yours , as I hope will appeare by his Writings : for we will ( for the time ) suppose him to be a Father of this first age , although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name , seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ .

PAP .

Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe ?

PRO.

Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture , h h Math. 26.27 . & 1 Cor. 11.23 , &c. which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament , and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand i i 1 Cor. 14.15 , &c. ; wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship k k Exod. 20.4 . Deut. 4.15 . ; against Invocation of Saints it is said l l Esay 63.16 . , that Abraham knoweth us not , and Isaac is ignorant of us ; and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration m m Apoc. 19.10 . & 22.8 , 9. . Likewise against Merit of workes , and workes of Super-erogation , it is said n n Rom. 8.18 . , that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us ; and that wee are unpro●itable servants , when we have done all that was commanded us , we have but done that which was our dutie to doe , and the like .

PA.

You alleadge Scripture , and so doe wee ; yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us , as where it is said , o o Math. 26.26 . This is my Bodie .

PRO.

What though it make for you in shew ? so doth it for the Anabaptists , where it is said , p p Acts 4.32 . that the Christians had all things common : you will not hence inferre , that because in such an extremitie , their charitie ( for the reliefe of others ) made things common concerning the use , that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us ? It is not the shew and semblance of words , but the sense thereof that imports the truth . Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths , q q 1. Cor. 12.27 . Ye are the body of Christ , yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance : but h●reof anon in his due place .

PA.

The Scriptures make not for you , but as you have translated them .

PRO.

For any point we hold , we referre our selves to the Originalls ; yea , wee say further , let the indifferent Christian Reader , ( who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue , ) compare our English translations , with those which your owne men , Pagnine , Arias Montanus , and others have published , and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie ; and namely , for Communion in one kind , and Service in a strange Tongue , which ( as is already proved ) hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word , but let us come to the particulars .

Of the Scriptures sufficiency , and Canon .

The Church of England holds , r r Arti●les of Religion . 6. Ar●i● . that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation : so that the●e is no doctrine s s Homily 1. the first part of the exhorta●ion to holy Scripture . necessary for our everlasting salvation , but that is ( or may bee ) drawne out of that Fountaine of truth , as being either expressely therein contained , or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence : and this is witnessed by Saint Paul , saying , that t t 2 Tim. 3.15 , 16 , 17. they are able to make us wise unto salvation , that the man of God may bee perfited , and throughly furnished unto all good workes ; which they should not bee able to doe , if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith , as we are bound to b●leeve , and duties to bee practised . And if it be said , that S. Paul speakes of the man of God , such an one as Timothie was , it holds in others also : for if the Scripture be so profitable for such and such u●e● , that thereby it perfects a Divine , much more an ordinary Christian ; that which can pe●fit the teacher , is sufficient for the learner .

PA.

Doe you disclaime all Traditions ?

PRO.

We acknowledge Traditions concerning Discipline , and the Rites and Ceremonies of the Church ; but not concerning the doctrine , or matter of faith & Religion .

You equalize unwritten traditions to holy Scripture , receiving them , saith your Trent Councell , u u Nec●on traditiones ipsa● tum ad fidem , tum ad mores pertinentes — Part pietatis affectu as reverentià suscipit , & veneratur . Concil. Trid. S●ss . 4 Decret. 1. with equall reverence , and religious affection , as you receive the holy Scriptures themselves : we da●e not doe so , but such traditions as we r●ceive , we hold and esteeme farre inferiour .

Concerning the Scriptu●e Canon , the Trent Councell accurseth x x Si quis librum Hester , Daniel●s , Baruch , Ecclesiastict , Sapientiae● Iudith , Tobiae , duorum Mac●abaeorum libros pro Canonicis non susceperit , Anathem● sit . Concil. Trid. Sess. 4. such as receive not the Bookes of Machabees , Ecclesiasticus , ●oby , Iudith , Baruch , Wisdome , for Canonical Scriptu●e . Now wee retaine y y The sixth Arti●le of the names and number of Canonicall Bookes . the same Canon which Christ and his Apostles held and received from the Iewes , unto whom were committed the Oracles of z z Rom 3.2 . God , being , as Saint Augustine speakes , a a Codicem portat Iudaeus undè credat Christianus ; Librarij nostri facti sunt , quomodo solent servi post Dominos codices ferre . August . in Psal 56. to . 8. The Christians Library-keepers . Now the Iewes never received these Bookes which wee terme Apocryphall into their b b Iosephu● contra ●●pionem . lib. 1. Canon : yea , Christ himselfe divided the c c Luke 24.44 . Canon into three severall rankes , i●to the Law , the Prophets , and the Psalmes ; now the Apocryphal come not within this reckoning . Indeed ( as S. Hierome saith ) The Church reades these Bookes for example of life , and instruction of manners ; but yet it doth not apply them to stablish any Doctrine .

Of Comunion under both kindes , and the number of Sacraments .

If any shall say , The Church was not induced for just causes to commun●ca●e the ●ay people under one kinde , v●z of bread onely , and shall say they ●rred in so doing , let him bee accursed , d d Si quis dixerit Ecclesi●m non ●ustis causis adductam ut Latios sub panis ta●tummodo spe●●e communicaret , aut in eo errasse , Anathema sit . Conc. Trid C●n. 2. Sess. ●1 . saith the Trent Councell . Now our Chu●ch holds , e e Arti●les of England , 30. Art . Articles of Ireland 97. That both the parts of the Lords Sacrament , ought to b●e ministred to all Gods people : so tha● according to us ; In the publ●k● celebra●ion of ●he E●cha●ist , Communion in bo●h kinds , ou●ht to bee given to all sorts of C●ri●●ians , righ●ly disposed and prepared : and this o●● Tenet is ag●e●able to Christes Institution f f M●th. 26●27 . and Precept , g g 〈…〉 in Ioan. 〈◊〉 who saith expr●sly and li●erally , Drink yee all of this . It agrees a●so with Saint Pauls h h 1 Cor● 11●28 . 〈…〉 pr●cipit ut h●bitur . Cyp●●an . de Coena Dom. precept , and with the practice of the holy Apostle● , i i 1 Cor. 10.21 . & cap. 11.23.26 . and the pri●ative Church .

Dionysius Arcopagita , who ( as you say ) was Saint Pauls Scholler , and Disciple , relates k k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , &c. Di●ny● . A●cop●g . Ec●les . H●erarch . c. 5. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Ibid. ●ap. 3. the practice of the Church in his time , on this manner ; After the Priest hath prayed that hee may ho●●ly distribute , and that all they that are to partake of the Sacrament may receiue it worthyly ; he breakes the Bread into many pieces , and divides one Cup among all . Ignatius , who was Scholler to Saint Iohn the Evangelist , saith ; l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●gnat . ●p. ad Philadel●h . That one Bread is broken unto all , and one Cup destributed unto all .

PA.

Bellarmine saith , m m In ●atinis ●ed●cibus . non habetur . ●●us Ca●●x o●●ibus d●stri●utus ; sed un●s Calix ●●tius Ecclesiae : est enim communi●●alix qui pro om●ibus ●sse tur Deo Neque multum ●idendum est Grae●●s Codicibus . Bella●m . lib. 4. de Euchar. cap. 26. the words of Ignatius are not as you alleage them ; There is one Cup distributed unto all ; but , there is one Cup of the whole Church , and though the Greeke Copies reade as you doe , yet he saith , That much credit is not to be given to them .

PROT.

Shall we give more credit to a Transl●tion , then to the Originall ? If the Well-head and Spring bee cor●upted , how shall the Brooke , or Streame runne cleare ? It may be indeed that divers errors are crept both into the Greeke & Latine Copies , but for the place alleag●d , there is no colour of corruption , in asmuch as the same that Ignatius spake of the Bread , the same are repeated of the Cup according to Christs Institution ; and howsoever Bellarmine may produce some Latine Copie , that translateth the words of Ignatius , as Bellarmine sets them downe , Vnus Calix totius Ecclesiae ; yet ( as D. Featly observes in the Grand Sacriledge of the Romish Church ) Vitlemius , and divers other Latin Copies following the originall verbatim , render them thus , Vnus Calix omnibus distributus , that is , One Cup distributed unto all , and not as Bellarmine , and * * Et unus Calix qui pro omnibus nobis distributus est . Bar. Annal. tom. 1. ad ann. Christ . 109. Ita legit locum Ignatij Ep. ad Philadelph . Baronius ad Ann. 109 sect. 25. would have it ; as if Ignatius had said , that one Cup was distributed not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , omnibus , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , pro omnibus , not to all , but for all , that is , for the behoofe and benefit of all . Howsoever they wrest it , Ignatius tels us of one Cup , and this not the Priests Cup , but the Churches Cup , and this Cup was distributed . But now adaies in the Masse , there is no distribution of the Cup.

PA.

Christ spake these words , Drinke yee all of this , only to the Apostles , n n Mandatum solis Apostolis datum ●uit . Bellarmin . de Euchar. lib. 4. cap. 25. § ●estat . as they were Priests , and not to the Laitie .

PRO.

By this meanes , you might take away the Bread , as well as the Cup from the Lay-people ; for when Christ administred the Sacrament , none were present ( for ought we know ) but onely the Apostles .

Besides , the Apostles were not yet fully ordained Priests , though they had beene once sent to Preach ; Christ after his Resurrection breathed on them the holy Ghost , and fully endued them with Priestly power . Iohn 20.22 .

Againe , the Apostles at this Supper were Communicants , not Ministers of the Sacrament ; Christ was then the onely Minister in that Action . Now Christ delivered them the Cup as well as the Bread , saying to the same persons , at the same time , and in the same respect , Drinke yee all of this , to whom hee had said before , Take , and Eate , giving both alike in charge ; so that you must either barre the people from both , or admit them to both : now if neither precept of eating or drinking belong to the Laitie , the Laitie are not at all bound to receive the Sacrament .

PA.

Although it be said of Drinking the Cup [ Doe this in remembrance of me ; ] Yet the Words [ Doe this ] are spoken Absolutely o o Post p●nis conse●●●tionem ab●●lutè pon●tu [ h●c ●ac●t● ] p●st ●alic●n verò idem ●●p●titur , sed ●um ●●nditione , Quo 〈…〉 b●beritis , Id. ibid. §. 〈◊〉 . of the Bread , and but Conditionally of the Cup , namely [ as often as yee shall drinke it : 1 Cor. 11.25 . ] So that these Words , Doe this in remembrance of me , inferre not any Commandement of receiving in both kindes .

PRO.

According to your Tenet , our Saviour saith not , Doe this as often as you Lay men communicate ; but whensoever you receive the Cup and drinke , then doe it in remembrance of me ; as much as to say , as often as you Lay people drinke , which needeth never be done by you ( according to Romish Divinitie ) Doe this nothing in remembrance of mee : Besides , as there is a Quotiescunque , as often , set before the Cup , As oft as you drinke ; so there is a Quotiescunque set before the Bread , As often as you shall eate this Bread , ( vers. 26. ) so that quoti●scunque biberitis , as often as you Drinke , cannot make the Precept Conditionall in respect of the Cup , more than of the Bread ; it being alike referred to the Bread and to the Cup.

PA.

We wrong not the Laitie , ministring unto them under one kinde onely ; they receiving the same benefit by one , that they should doe by both , Christs body and bloud being whole in p p Concil. T●id . Sess. 13. cap 3. each ; so that the people receive the bloud together with the Host , by a Concomitancy .

PRO.

In vaine have you devised Concomitance , to disguise your sacriledge of the Cup taken from the people ; as if our Saviour Christ were not sparing enough in ordaini●g as few outward Ceremonies as might wel be ; but that he must doe that by two , which might have beene compassed by one ; or as if he would have the Ministers receive his body and bloud superfluously ; that is to say , both in the Bread , and in the Cup too , which was sufficiently received in either of them . Againe , though the devout Communicant , receiving Christ spiritually by Faith , is thereby possessed of whole Christ crucified , in the inward act of the soule ; yet we deny , that the whole is received Sacramentally in this outwad act , under one onely part of this Sacrament : so that if Concomitance were granted , yet Communion in one kinde is not justifiable ; for although it deprive not people of Christs bloud , as it is a bodily part conteined in the veines ; yet it depriveth them of the bloud of Christ , as it was shed , powred out , and offered in sacrifice for them ; neither can su●h manner of receiving shew foorth the Lords death , which is one chiefe end of the celebration of this Sacrament , 1 Cor. 11.28 . The breaking of Bread repesenteth in no wise the effusion of bloud ; this is lively represented by the powring out of the consecrated Wine , and d●inking of the Cup , there being a perfecter signification in both kinds then in one .

Lastly , though the people might receive the blood together wi●h the host , ●et he that so receives the blood , cannot properly bee said to drinke : now Christ saith expresly , Vnlesse you drinke his blood , you shall not have life in you , Iohn 6.53 . which place your Papists themselves understand of the Eucharist .

Concerning the number of Sacraments , the Trent-Councell accurseth q q Si quis dixerit , aut plu●a esse Sacramenta , ●ut pauciora quam septem , Anathema sit . Concil. Trid. Sess. 7. all such as shall say , that the number of Sacraments is either more or lesse then seaven : but our Church holds , r r Art. 25. that of the Sacraments of the Newe Testament , there bee two ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospell , that is to say , Baptisme , and the Lords Supper ; and those five , which by the Church of Rome are called Sacraments , to wit , Confirmation , Penance , Orders , Matrimony , and Extreame Vnction , are not to be accounted Sacraments of the Gospell s s Art. of Ireland . Art. 87. .

Now that there are and ought to be two Sacraments onely in the New Testament , appeareth hereby , in that there is no promise made unto us of life everlasting in Iesus Christ , which is not sufficiently witnessed , and assured unto us by these two t t 1 Cor. 10.1 , 2 , 3. & cap. 12. verse 13. Sacraments . For the summe of all the promises of God in Christ , is reduced unto these two heads : that for his sake we are received into the favour , and houshold care of God ; and that being once received , we shall be continued in the sa●e for ever : the former whereof is sealed unto us by Baptisme for our entrance and admission into the Covenant ; and the later by the Lords Supper , for our continuance , growth , and confirmation therein . These two were instituted by Christ ; Hoc facite , Doe this in remembrance of mee u u Math. 28.19 . & Luke 22.19 . , is our warrant for the one ; and goe teach and baptise , for the other ˣ ; there is deepe silence in the rest .

Of the Eucharist .

The Trent Councel holds , y y Synodas declarat , per consecrationem pa●is & vt●i , conversion●m sieri t●tius substantiae p●n●s in substantiam corporis Christi , & to●i●s ●ub●tan●iae v●ni in substantiam ●anguinis ejus . Concil. ●●id . Sess. 13. cap. 4. that there is a conversion of the whole substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christs body and blood , wrought by the words of consecration ; and that there onely remaine the semblances and shewes , the outward shape● , z z Romanentibus duntaxat spectobus 〈◊〉 & vini . Id. Ibid. Can. 2. formes , or accidents of bread and wine : yea , the Councel accurseth Id. ibid. Can. 2. such as affirme bread & wine to remaine in this Sacrament after consecration . And yet S. Paul tells us , b b 1. Cor. 11.26 . that after consecration it is bread , which is broken and eaten ; & it is no lesse than fivetimes so called after the pretended change . Neither is it called Bread , because it was bread , but because it is bread , not in name onely , but in nature and properties : for after consecration , the bread and wine they nourish the body , and comfort the heart as before but the bare formes of bread and wine , as the roundnesse of the Hoste , or colour of the Wine , ( such as they say onely remaine , the substance thereof being abolished ) cannot nourish without corporall substance . Now our Church holds , c c A●ti● of England● 28 Of Ireland●3 ●3 . that the change of the substance of the bread and wine , into the substance of the body and blood of Christ , commonly called Transubstantiation , cannot be prooved by holy Writ , but is repugnant to plaine testimonies of holy Scripture .

PA.

How doth it appeare that Christs bodie and bloud are not corporally given and taken in the Sacrament ?

PRO.

By these reasons : First , wee receive the body and blood of Ch●ist in the Sacrament , as the Disc●ples of Christ did in the first I●stitution of it . Now the body and blood of Chri●t were not corporally received by them , but onely spiritually .

Secondly , Christ his body is ascended and taken up into heaven , and the heavens must containe him , d d Acts 3.11 . till the end of the world .

Thirdly , e e Math. 28.6 , 7. Luke 24.39 . Iohn 20 27. Christ hath but one body , and that a true body , and such as cannot be in many places at once and it filleth a place wheresoever it is , and may bee both seene and felt . This was also the judgement of other● , whom you much reverence . Dionysius Areopagita held not Transubstantiation● For he distinguisheth b●tweene the substantiall Sign●s , and Christ sign●fied by them , saying ; f f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Di●nys . Areopag . Eccles. Hierarch . cap. 3. that By those reve●end Signes and Symboles , Christ is signified , and the faithfull made partakers of him . He calleth not t●e ministration of the holy mysteries the sacrificing of Christ unto his Father ( as the Papists doe ; ) but a Typicall or g g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. c●p 3. Symbolicall Sacrifice , that is a figu●e or signe of that great sacrifice : and the same Denys ( as h h Imm● & Dionysius cap 3. Eccles. Hier●rchiae Eucharist●●m vocat Antitypon . B●ll●rm . lib. 2 de Eucha●ist . c. p. 15 §. Sed hoc . Bellarmine confesseth ) calleth the Sacrament an An●i●ype , and that after consecration ; so that according to Saint Denys , the Elements of Bread and Wine in this Sacrament , are Types , Antitype , and Symbols , that is , Figures and Signes of the body and bloud of Ch●ist ; and yet not onely bare , naked , and Signes significative , but re●lly ex●ibiting Christ , for that is Denys his word , to wit , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that the faithfull thereby partake Christ Iesus .

PA.

The Scripture is plaine for us , where Christ saith , This is my Body . Math. 26.26 .

PRO.

Although Christ say , This is my Body , yet hee saith not ( as you doe ) this is made , or shall be changed into my Body ; he sai●h not , that his body and bloud is conteined under the shapes or formes of B●ead and Wine .

Againe , you that stand so for the Letter , take not Christs Words litterally ; for it is an improper speech to say , This is my Body , that is , the thing conteined under these formes , is by conversion , and substantiall transmutation , my Body ; but your Papists mainteining Transubstantiation , expound Christs words in this , or the like manner ; therefore in the point of Transubstantiation , you depart from the Letter , and consequently make it figurative . You indeed alleage the Words and Letter , but not the true meaning ; we beleeve Christs words in their right sence ; now the shew makes for you , the sence and substance for us . Now though Christs Body is not according to his materiall substance wholly and intirely , under the outward elements , yet the Bread may bee truly termed Christs Body , because of a Relative and Sacramentall union , and donation of the thing signified , together with the Signes worthily received .

PA.

What reason have you to interpret these words figuratively ; this is my body , that is , this bread is a signe of my body , and not plainely and literally as they sound .

PRO.

Figurative speeches are oftentimes plaine speeches ; now there be no other Figures or Tropes in the Lords Supper , but such as are , and alwaies were , usuall in Sacraments , and familiarly knowne to the Church . Now Sacraments must bee expounded Sacramentally , and accordingly the words alledged must not bee taken literally , but figuratively . Christ taking bread , and breaking bread , said of the same , [ This is my body ] now this cannot bee properly taken , therefore for the right expounding of these words , we are necessarily to have recourse to a figurative interpretation ; and the reason hereof is that common Maxime , i i Bishop Morton against the Masse . Booke 2. chap. 1. sect. 4. and cha. 3. sect. 6. Disparatum de disparato non propriè praedicatur , that is , nothing can bee properly and literally affirmed joyntly of another thing , which is of a different nature . By this rule , bread and Christs body cannot bee properly affirmed one of another ; bread being of a different nature from flesh , can no more possibly be called the fl●sh or body of Christ literally , than lead can be called wood : and this makes us interpret the words figuratively ; and wee have in Scripture most manifest places , which proove these wo●ds , [ This is my body ] to be figuratively taken and understood , because in Scripture whensoever the signe ( as the Bread ) being called Christ's body , hath the name & appellation of the thing signified , the speech is alwayes tropicall and figurative . And this agre●th with S. Austi●s Rule : k k Si enim Sacrament● quandam similitudinem earum ●erum quarum S●cramenta sunt , non ha●erent , omninô Sacramenta non essent : ex hâc autem similitudine plerumque etiam ipsa●um rerum nomina accipiunt . Sicut ergo secundùm quendam modum Sacramentum corporis Christi corpus Christi est . Aug. tom. 2. epist. 23. ad Bonifac . Sacraments bee signes , which often doe take the names of those things , which they doe signifie and represent : therefore doe they carry the names of the things themselves : thus is the signe of the Passeover , the Lambe , called the Passeover , Math. 26.17 . Exod. 12.11 , 27. the Rocke , the signe of Christ in his passion , is called Christ , and the Rocke was Christ , 1. Cor. 10 4. Circmmcision , the signe of the Covenant , called the Covenant , and Bap●isme the signe of Christs buriall , called Christs buriall : for so saith S. Augustine , l l

Vt Baptismus dicitur sepulchrum ; sic , H●c est Corpus meum . August . cap. Faust. lib. 20 cap. 21.

Non enim Dominus dubitavit dicere , ●oc est corpus meum , ●um signum daret corporis sui . August tom. 6. contra Adimant . cap. 12.

— Figura est ergò praecipiens passioni domini esse communicandum . Id tom. 3 lib 3 de Doctr. Ch●ist cap. 16.

that as Baptisme is called Christs buriall , so is the Sacrament of the Body of Christ call●d his Body . Now this shew , or semblance of words concludes not , that Christ or the Lambe were really the Rocke , the Passeover , but that these things are meant figuratively , it being usuall in Scripture , specially in such Sacramentally speeches as this is we are now about , to give the name of the thing to that which it betokeneth ; and so to call , Circumcision the Covenant , because it is a signe th●t betokneth the Covenant , and so of the rest . Besides the other part of the S●crament , to wit , This Cup is the New Testament in my blood , Luke 22.20 . is figurativ● , and not to be literally taken : for you your selves s●y , m m Non ●●gamus in verb● 〈◊〉 ●●pum es●e . Bel 〈…〉 lib. 1 c●p . 11. § R●s●ondeo . that Calix , or the Cup is there taken for that which is i● the cup : so that your s●lves admit a trope in the institution of this Sacrament .

PAP .

If these figurative spe●ches were true , yet I cannot see what argument you can draw from hence , or how you can hence prove any thing against our Tenet , saith our ●nglish n n The Lord Ar. Ba●o● num●●●● , 4● touching some mis-allegations . Baron : for it is a rule in Divinitie , that Theologia Symbolica non est a●gumentativa , that figurative speeches affoord no certaine proofe in matters of Faith .

PRO.

The ze●lous , Reverend , and learned L. Bishop of Dur●sme , Doctor Morton , tells o o A discharge of five Impu●●●ions of mis-allegati●ns , ●●lsely c●a●ged upon the ( now● Bishop of Dure●me , by an English B●●on . pag. 133 , &c. ad . num. 42.43 . your Baron and his Suggester , that upon the no-p●oper sense of the words , [ This is my body ] it must follow , that there is no Transubstantiation in your Romish Masse , no Corporall presence , no r●all Sacrifice , no proper eating , no lawfull divine adoration therof : and as for the rule , that Symbolicall arguments m●ke no necessary Conclusions , the said learned and reve●end Father saith , That this makes not against us , touching the fi●urative wo●ds of Christ , This is my body , the position maketh onely against them , who extract either a lite●all sense out of a parabolicall and figurative speech , as Origen did , when having r●ad that scripture● Th●re bee some that castrate th●ms●lves for the kingdome of God , ( wh●ch was but a p●rabolicall speech ) hee did really , and therefor● f●●lishly castrate himselfe : or else , when men t●r●e the words of Scripture , properly and literally spoken , int●● figurative meaning● as when Pope Inno●ent th● third , t● p●oove that his Papall authoritie was above th● Imp●riall , a●l●dged that Scripture , Gen. 1. God made two great lights , the Sun , and the Moone ; as if the Imperiall like the Moone , had borrowed its authoritie from the Papall , as from the Sun : or as Pope Boniface 8 , from those words , Luk. 22. Behold , here are two swords , argued , that both the temporall and spirituall sword are in the Pope , as he is Vicar of Christ . Now such kinde of Symbolicall reasoning is indeed of no force . ●ut by that position was it never forbid , whensoever in Scripture the name of the thing signified , is attributed to the symbol or signe , that then the Symbolicall and Sacramental speech should be judged tropicall . But this kind of exposition was alwayes approved of Christ , and by his Church : so here , Christ taking bread , and breaking bread , which was the symbol and signe of Christs body , and saying of the same Bread , [ This is my body ] the sense cannot possibly bee literall , but al●ogether figu●ative , as hath bin shewne by divers ●xamples in Scripture , to wit , the signe of the passing over , called the Passeover ; the Rock , but a signe of Christ , called Christ : In each on● of these the Symbols being a Signe and Figu●e , the speech must infallibly bee Figurative . And therefore Bread , being a Figure of Christs Body , is called Christs body Figuratively . And thus farre our learned Bishop of Duresme .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

The Church of Rome holds , p p Imagines hab●ndas & r●tinendas esse , a●que ●is debitum honorem ac venerati●nem impertiendam . Bull● Pij qu●rti super formâ Iu●am●nti , ad calcem Concil. Trid. & Conc. T●●d . Ses● . 25. that Images are to bee had and retained , and that due honour , worship , and veneration is to bee given to them ; The Church of England holds , q q Ar●ic 22. that the Romish doctrine of Adoration of Images and Reliques , and also of Invocation of Saints is grounded upon no warra●tie of Scripture , but rather rep●gnant to the word of God . And so indeed we finde , that the Lord in his Morall law hath condemned r r Exod. 20.5 . Levit. 26.18 . in g●nerall all Ima●e● and Idols devised by man , for worsh●p and adoration . And this Precept being a part of his Morall law , it binds s s Deca●ogi verba ipse per seme●ipsum om●ibus simititèr Dominus ●●quutus est ; & ideo sim●●●ter pe●manent a●ud ●os , ●xtension in & aug●entum , sed non dissolut●o●●m a●●●pientta , per ca●●●tem ejus ad●●ntum I●enaeus ●o●●● . Haere● . lib. 4. cap 31. us in the state of the new Testament , as it did the Israelites of old : for in all the Apostles doctrine , wee doe not finde that ever this pr●c●pt was ab●ogated ; so that it bindes , Israelites , Christians , and all .

PA.

If all worship of Images be forbidden , ( Exod. 20. ver. 4 , 5. ) then all making of them is forbidden , for the same precept which saith , thou shalt not bow downe to them , nor worship them ; saith also , thou shalt not make to thy selfe any graven Image .

PRO.

Our learned Bishop White , hath answered for 〈◊〉 : the Ground and Proposition of this argument ( saith he ) t t D●ctor Whites Reply to Iesuit Fish●rs Answer . Fi●st point . §. 3. p. 266. is fal●e ; for worshipping of Images is forbidden , as the principall object of that negative precept , and as a thing Morally evill in his very kind : but making them is forbidden , ( onely ) when it is a meanes subservient to worship ; and because it may be separated , both in his owne nature , and in mans intention from that end and use ; therefore the one is simply forbidden , and the oth●r is onely prohibited , when it becommeth a meanes , or instrument to other : for we mislike not pictures or Images for historicall use and ornament ; now this distinction and disparitie betweene making and wo●shipping , is comfirmed by the example of the ●razen Serpent , made by Gods owne appointment ; for when the same was onely made , and looked upon , it was a Medicine , when it was worshipped , it b●came a poyson , and was destroyed . 2 Kings 18●4 .

To proceed● ; the Church of Rome holds , x x Sa●●●os un●●um Christs regnante● , venerandos a●que i●vocan●os esse Bulla P●● Q●●●● quò s●p●a . ●t Con● . Trid. Sess. 25. that the Saints raigning with Christ , are to be worshipped and pray●d unto ; but this we hold is not warranted by Gods word , but rather repugnant to it : for we are commanded to invocate God in the name of Christ y y Iohn 16. ●● . ; and our Saviour himselfe inviteth us , to approach with confidence to the throne of his grace z z Iohn ●5 . 16 . Ephes. 3.12 . Hebr. 4.16 . : he is rich in mercie a a ●phes. 2.4 . , to such as call upon him ; and more compassionate , better able , and more willing to helpe us than any Saint or Angel ; and he is appointed by God to be our Intercessour b b Rom. 8.34 . H●br. 7.25 . We reade in the new Testament , many examples of people which made supplication immediately unto Christ , but not of one which made intercession to the Virgin Mary , or to the blessed Saints or Angels . And if any question with this our negative concluding from Scripture ; Saint Hierome upon occasion did the like , saying , c c Non credimus , quia non legimus . Hieron . advers. Helvidium . tom 2. we beleeve it not , because we reade it not .

I will close up this point with that advise which Ignatius gave the Virgins of his time ; d d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ignat. in Epist. ad Philadelph . not to direct their prayers and supplications to Saints or Ang●ls , but to the Trinity ( onely ) . O ye Virgins , have Christ alone before your eyes , and his Father in your Prayers , being enlightned by the spirit .

Of Faith and Merit .

The Trent e e Si quis dix●rit , sol● side impium jus●ifica●i , Anathema sit Conc. Trid. Ses●● 6. Can. 9. Counc●l accurseth all such as say , that a si●ner is justified by Faith on●ly , or deny that the good workes of holy men doe truly Merit everlasting life , f f Si quis dixe●it justifi●ati hominis opera bona non verè mereti vitam aete●nam● Anathema sit . Idem S●ss . 6. cap. 16. Can. 32. our reform●d Churches hold , g g Artl● . of England 11. and of Ireland 34. that wee are accounted righteous b●fore God , onely for the Merit of Iesus Christ , applyed by Faith● and not for our workes or Merits . And when we say , that we are justified by Faith onely , we doe not meane that the said justifying Faith is alone in man , without true repentance , hope , charity , and the feare of God ; for such a Faith is dead , and cannot justifie . h h Art. of Ireland● 36. Even as when we say , that the eye onely seeth , wee doe not meane , that the eye severed from the head doth see , but that it is the onely prop●rtie of the eye to see . Neither doth this Faith of Christ , which is within us , of it selfe justifie us , or deserve our just●fication unto us ( for that were to account our selves to be justified by the vertue or dignity of something within our selves : ) but the true meaning ther●of is , that although we heare Gods Word and beleeve it , although wee have Faith , Hope , Charity , Repentance , and the f●are of God within us , yet we must renounce the Merit of all our vertues , and good deedes , as farre too weake and unsufficient to deserve remission of our Sinnes , and u● justification ; and therefore we must trust onely in Gods mercie , and the Merits of our only Saviour and justi●ier Iesus Christ . Neverthelesse , because Faith doth directly send us to Christ for our justification , and that by Faith given us of God , we emb●ace the promise of Gods mercie , and the remission of our Sinnes , ( which thing none other of our vertues or workes properly doth : ) therefore the Scripture useth to say , i i Rom. 3.28 . — 42 , &c. that Faith without workes , and the ancient Fathers of the Church to the same purpose , that onely Faith doth justifie us . k k Homily of Saluation 2. Part.

Now for the Poynt of Merit , it is neither agreeable to Scripture nor reason , for we cannot Merit of him whom we gratifi● not ; we cannot gratifie a man with his owne ; now all our good is Gods already , his gift , his proprietie : What have we that we have not received ? saith the Apostle , l l 1. Cor. 4.7 not our Talent onely , but the improvement also is his meere bounty ; there can be therefore no place for Merit .

PA.

Wee hold the ancient Romane Faith .

PRO.

That is not so , as may appeare by these instances .

Saint Paul taught m m Rom 9.11 . Rom 11.5 , 6. his Romanes , that our Ele●●ion is of Gods free grace , and not ex operibus praevisis , of workes fore-seene .

He taught , that we are justified by n n Rom 3.28 . Rom 4 2 , &c. Faith onely ; we conclude that we are justified by Fa●th without the work●s of the Law , which is all one as to say , a man is justified by Faith onely .

He taught , that eternall life is the gift of God , o o Rom. 6. ●3 . and therefore not due to the Merit of workes : that , the good workes of the Regenerate are not of their owne condignitie meritorious , p p Rom. 8.18 . nor such as can deserve heaven , and the sufferings there expressed are Ma●tyrdomes sanctified by grace .

He condemned Images , though made to resemble the true God ; and taught q q Rom. 1 23 , 25. that to bow the knee religiously to an Image , or to worship any creature , is meère Idolatry .

He taught r r Rom. 10.13 , 14. that we must not pray unto any but unto God onely , in whom we beleeve : and therefore not to Saints or Angels , since we beleeve not in them .

He taught that s s Rom 7.7 . — 8.10 . concupiscence is a Sinne , even in the regenerate : * * Apos●olus Concupiscentiam peccatum voca● ; non licet nobi● autem ita l●q ●● . Possev . in Apparat. verbo Patres . and Possevine the Iesuit confesseth , that Saint Paul called it so , but saith he , we may not call it so .

He taught , t t Rom 4.9 , 17 , 23. that the Imputed righteousnesse of Christ , is that onely that maketh us just before God .

Thus taught Saint Paul , thus the ancient Romanes beleeved : from this Faith our latter Romanists are departed .

Here then let the Reader judge , whether it be likely that Saint Paul , who ( as Theodoret x x Variam quidem & Om●is generis doctrinam per haec scripta exhibet Apostolus . Thedoret . tom. 2. in argum . Epist. ad Rom. Gen●iano Herveto Interp●et . saith ) delivered doctrine of all sorts , and very exactly handled the Points thereof , should neverthelesse ( writing at large to the Romane Church ) not once mention those maine points , wherein the life of Poperie consists ; namely , the Popes Monarchical Iurisdiction , Transubstantiation , Communion in one kinde , Service in an unknowne tongue , Popes pardons , Image worship , and the like , if the Church of Rome were then the same that now a dayes it is .

Now if these points mentioned , were no Articles of Faith in the ancient Romane Church , in Saint Pauls dayes , when their Faith was spoken of throughout the whole world ; y y Rom. 1 8. then they be not Articles of Faith at this day , but onely Additions to the rule of Faith , such as the corruption of the times hath patched up , and pieced it withall : for it is a ruled case in the z z Quan●um ad sub●stantiam Arti●ulorum fidei , non est sactum corum augmentum , sed quantum ad ●xplicationem , quia quaed●m explicitè cognita sunt à poster●oribus , quae à prioribus non cognosceba●tur explicitè . Aquin. ●● . 2 ae . qu. 1. Art. 7. Schooles , that the body of Religion may grow in respect of farther Explanations , but it cannot increase in Substantiall points ; even as a child ( as Vicentius Lirinensis a a Imi●etur anim●r●● Religio rationem co●po●●i , q●ae licet annorum pr●●●ss● num●ros suos evolv●●t & explicent , ●alem tam●n quae cra●t perma●ent ; qu●● parvuloru● a●tus 〈◊〉 i●o●um . Vincent 〈◊〉 ● contra Haeres . ca. 29. ●aith ) though he grow in stature , yet hath he no more limbs , when he becommeth a man , than he had when he was a child ; so the Church hath no more parts , or Articles of Faith in her riper age , than she had in her infancie , and by this rule , new Rome is a Monster , if she have more ●word o● li●bs of Faith now in her declining age , than ancient Rome had in her flourishing age .

And herein we challenge our adversaries to shew the body of their Religion pe●fited in this first and purest age , what time the Church was in her vigour , and the Scripture Canon finished and consigned : but they dare not be tried by the booke of Scripture . Now for us , we willingly put our cause to bee tried by that honourable and unpartiall Iury of Christ and his twelve Apostles , and the Evidence that shall be given by the testimonie , and vivâ voce , of holy Scripture ; but they turne their backs , and fly from this triall .

But I proceed , and come to Ioseph of Arimathea , whom I named for one of our Ilands speciall Benefactors ; it was this Ioseph ( as our best Antiquaries say c c Gildas in the life of Aurel. Ambr●sius ; and William Malm●bury apud C●●●b●en . in Belge or S●●me●jet . ) that together with twelve other Disciples his Assistants , came out of France into Britaine , and preached the Christian Faith in the Western part of this Iland , now called Glastenbury ; which place in ancient Charters , was termed the Grave of the Saints , the Mother Church , the Disciples foundation : whereby it is very likely , that our land was first converted by Ioseph of Arimathea being sent hither by S. Phillip , & not from S. Peter , and that not from Rome , but from Arimathea , which was not farre from Hierusalem , so that Hierusalem is the Mother of us all , as both Hierome d d Io Hieru●alem primum fund . t● Ecclesi● . to●ius o●b● Ecclesias sem●●●it . Hieron . tom. 2. in Isai cap. 2. [ Ex Sion I●x ex●●●● , & v●●bum Domi●●ex Hieru●●lem ] and Theodoret e e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Th●odoret Histor. Eccles l●b 5. cap. ● . say . And this is the rather probable , because that upon Austin the Monks comming into England , the British Bishops observed their Easter , and other points of difference , according to the Gre●ke or Easterne Church , and not after the Romane Westerne Church ; which makes it probable , that our first conversion came from the Christian converted Iewes , or Grecians , and not from the Romanes ; but howsoever it were , or whence-soever they came , wee blesse God for the great worke of our conversion .

THE SECOND CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 100. to 200.
PAPIST .

WHom doe you name in this Age ?

PROTESTANT .

In this Age lived Hegesippus of the Iewish Nation , afterwards converted to Christianitie . Melito Bishop of Sardis : Iustine Martyr , who , of a Philosopher , became both a Christian and a Martyr . Now also lived Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons in France , sometimes Scholler to Polycarp , and both of them Martyred fo● the name of Christ ; of this Polycarp , Bishop of Smyrna it is recorded , a a Eus●b . lib. 4. cap. 15. that being urged by the Romane Deputie to deny Christ , he stoutly replied on this manner : I have served him these foure-score and six yeares , and he hath not hurt me , and shall I now deny him ? Now also lived Clemens Alexandrinus , who was Scholler to one Pantenus , these two seeme to be the Authors of Vniversities and Colledges , for they taught the Grounds of Religion , not by Sermons and Homilies to the people , but by Catecheticall doctrine to the Learned in the Schooles .

Now that in point of doctrine we consent with the Worthies of this Age , it may appea●e by the testimonie of Iren●us , a Disciple of those that heard Saint Iohn the Apostle , for he b b Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 2. & 3. layeth downe no other Articles of Faith , and Grounds of Religion then our ordinarie Catechisme teacheth : besides he sheweth that in the unitie of that Faith the Churches of Germany , Spain , France , the East , Aegypt , Libya , and all the World , were founded , and therein sweetly accorded : as if they had al dwelt in one house , all had had but one soule , and one heart , and one mouth . c c Regula est autem Fidei , ut ●am hinc quid ●redamus prositeamu● , illa scili●et : qu● creditur unum omninò D●um esse , &c. Tertul. de p●aes●●ip●ione advers. haeret . c. 13. The like doth his contemporary Tertullian , he gives the fundamentall points of Religion , gathered out of the Scriptures , and delivered by the Churches , the same which our Church delivereth , and no other for the Rule of Faith .

Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie , and Canon .

Irenaeus saith , d d Quià S●●ipturae quidem perfec●●e sunt , quippè ● ve●bo D●i & spi●itu ejus dic●ae . ●en . lib. 2. c. 47. The Scriptures are perfect , as spoken from the Word of God , and his Spirit : and Erasmus Solis Scripturarum praesidijs pugnat a●ve●sus ●atervam . Here●ic●rum . Erasm p●aefat . in Iren observes , that Irenaeus fought against the troupes of Heretikes , onely by the forces and strength of Scripture , indeed he sometimes chargeth them with the Churches tradition , ( wounding them with their owne weapon : ) but this was with such undoubted tradition , as were in his time thought to bee Apostolike , which he might easily discerne living so neere the Apos●les dayes .

Melito , Bishop of Sardis , being desired by Onesimus to send him a Catalogue of the Bookes of the Old Testament , f f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Eus●b . lib. 4. cap. 26. makes no mention of Iudith , Tobit , Ecclesiasticus , nor the Maccabees : and yet he profes●eth that he made very diligent search to set downe a perfect Cannon thereof . And this is likewise confessed by Bellarmine ; many ancients g g Multi vete●um ut Melito , aperte s●q●●ti sunt Hebreos● non G●ae●os . Bell●r● de ve●b . Dei lib. 1. cap. 20 § Ad alter in . ( saith he ) as namely Melito● did follow the Hebrew Canon of the Iewes .

Of Communion under both kinds ; and number of Sacraments .

Iustin Martyr saith , h h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Iust. Ap●log . ● . in fine p 162. they which are called Deacons among us give to every one that is present of the consecrated Bread & Wine● adding withal , i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In●●● . Id. ibid. as Christ commanded them : now these words which mention Christs Commandement , k k Respondeo , illa verba Iustini , ubi commemoratur Christi praceptum , non pertinent ad Communionem , sed ad consecration●m . Bell●rm . lib. 4 de Euchar. cap. 26. §. Respondeo . Bellarmine would haue to belong to the Consecration only , & not to the Communion ; whereas I●stin extends Christs precept to both , both being injoyned in that precept , doe this in remembrance of me : so that we have both Christs precept , and this Ages practice for our Communion in both . Clemens Alexandrinus wrote a booke against the Gentiles , Stromata . which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , ( as ye would say ) woven after the manner of coverings , mixed with the testimonies of Scriptures , Poets , Philosophers , and Histories , and therein he hath these words : l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Clem. Alexandr . Stromat . lib. 1. pag. 94. When they distribute the Holy Eucharist , as the custome is , they permit every one of the people to take a part or portion thereof : and what he meaneth by Eucharist , himselfe explaineth , saying , m m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Idem Paedagog . lib. 2. cap. 2. pag. 35. the mingling of the drinke and of the Water and the Word , is that which we call the Eucharist : so that according to him , not Bread onely , but Bread and Wine is the Eucharist , and of this every one of the people participated in his time , and therefore all dranke of the Cup. Iustine Martyr in his Apologie for the Christians n n Iustin. Apol secund● . specifies no other Sacraments , than Baptisme , and the Lords Supper ; and yet in that treatise of his , he was justly occasioned to mention the Sacraments of the Church ; and there he relates the manner of their Church-service , Liturgies , and Commnuion : so that there had beene a fit place for him to have named those other five , if the Church had then knowne them .

Of the Eucharist .

That the substance of Bread and Wine , remaineth in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration , albeit the use of the elements bee changed , is cleere by the Fathers of this Age. Iustine Martyr saith , o o Iustin. Apolog. 2. that the elements of Bread and Wine in the Sacrament of the Supper , are made flesh , and the bloud of Iesus , in that same manner that the eternall Word of God was made flesh : but so it is , that the substance of the Divine nature , neither evanished nor yet was changed into the substance of flesh : and in like manner , the Bread is made the Body of Christ , neither by evanishing of the substance thereof , nor yet by changing the substance thereof into another substance .

Iustine Martyr telleth us , that the Bread and the Wine , even that p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●u●●in . Apolog. 2 in sin sanctified food wherewith our bloud and flesh by conversion are nourished , is that which we are taught to be the flesh and bloud of Iesus incarnate . Our Lord , saith Clemens of Alexandria , q q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 C●m . Al●●andr . Paedagog lib. 2. cap. 2. pag 38. did blesse Wine , when he said , take , drinke , this is my bloud , the bloud of the Vine . Irenaeus saith , Quomodo autem justè Dominus , si alterius Patris existit , hu●us ●onditionis quae est secundum nos , accipi●ns pa●em , suum corpus esse consit●batur . I●en . lib 4. c p 57● that our Lord , taking Bread of that condition , which is usuall among us , confessed it to be his Body : and s s Et cali●em similtèr , qui est ●x ea c●●atur● , quae est se●undùm nos , suum sanguinem con●●ss●s est . Id. ibid. lib● 4. cap 32. the Cup likewise containing that creature which is usuall among us , his bloud : so that in their construction , it was Bread and Wine which Christ called his Body ; it was Bread in substance , mate●iall Bread , and the Body of the Lord in signification , and Sacramentall relation . The Lord called Bread his body , now since Bread could not be his body substantially , it must needs be , it was onely his body Sacramentally .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Concerning the use of Images , we find that in these best & ancient times , Christians were so far from bringing them into their Churches , that some of them would not so much as admit the Art it selfe of making them , so jealous were they of the danger , and carefull for the prevention of deceipt , whereby the simple might any way be drawn on to the adoring of them : we are plainly fo●bidden , saith Clemens Alexandrinus , t t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ● Clement . Alexan. Protrepti● . ad Gent. pag 24. to exercise that deceitfull Art ; for the Prophet saith , Thou shalt not make the likenesse of any thing , either in the Heaven , or in the Earth beneath . u u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Pae●dag . lib. 3. cap 2. p●g 58. Moses commandeth men to make no Image , that should represent God by Art , x x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. P●otreptic . pag. ●1 . for in truth , an Image is a dead matter , formed by the hand of an artificer , but we have no sensible Image made of any sensible matter , but such an Image as is to be conceived with the understanding , y y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. in Protreptic . oratione Adhortat ad Gentes . pag. 23. — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ibid . pag. 20. yea but thine Images are of Gold : be it so : now I pray thee , what is Gold , or Silver , Iron , Brasse , Ivorie , the Adamant , Diamond , or Precious Stones ? Are they not terra et ex terrâ , are they ought but Earth and made of the Earth ? now being nothing else but a piec● of more refined Earth , I have learned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , terram calcare , non colere ; to walke on the Earth , and not to worship it ; to set my foote on it , not to bow my knee to it . And thus farre Clement of Alexandria , holding it a monstrous thing to bow downe to a stock or a stone .

Irenaeus reckons it among the abuses of the Gnostikes , z z Imagines quasdam depictas , quasdam de reliqu● Materi● fabricatas habent , dicentes formam Christi factam ● Pilato , e● has coronant . Iren. lib. 1. cap. 24. that they had certaine painted Images , and others made of other stuffe , saying , that it was the Picture of Christ made by Pilate .

When the Emperour Adrian , in favour of the Christians a a Alexander Imperator Christo templum facere voluit , eumque inter Deos recipere : quod & Adrianus cogitasse fertur , qui templa in omnibus civitatibu●●ine simulachris jusserat fieri , quae hodie idcirco quia non habent numina , dicuntur Ad●iani● quae ille ad hoc parasse dicebatur , sed prohibitus est ab ijs qui consulentes sacra , repererant omnes Christianos futuros si id optatò eveniss●t , & templa reliqua deserenda . Lamprid. in Alexandro . had commanded that in every City , Churches should be built without Images , which at this day are called Adrians Temples , because they have no Gods in them ; which they said he made for that end : to wit , to pleasure the Christians ; it was presently conceived , that he prepared those Temples for Christ , as Aelius Lampridius noteh , in the life of Alexander Severus : which is an evident Argument , that it was not the use of Christians in those dayes to have any Images in their Churches .

Learned Master Casa●bone in his notes upon this place of Lampridius , b b Historiam istam ad Tiberium potius referendam puto , quam Adrianum . Hadrianum autem templa sieri suo nomini mand●sse , quae eo morte praerepto imperfecta postea & fine simulachris mansere ; unde factum ut in animum inducerent multi non ●ibi sed Christo templa ista extruxisse Adrianum , quibus assentitur Lampridius ; ut qui norat , quod ignorare tum poterat nemo , & Iudaeos o●im in Hierosolomytanâ aede 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Deum co●uisse , & suis etiam temporibus Christianorum templa ejusmodi esse , qualia adhuc memorià suâ B. Augustinu● cum alibi prodit fuisse , tum in Psalmi 103. enarratione . Isaac . Causabon . in notis in hunc locum Lamp●id . thinketh that this story is rather to be referred to Tiberius the Emperour , ●han to Hadrian : and that Adrian causd Temples to be dedicated to his owne name , and th●se Temples , Adrian being prevented by death , remained unfinished , and without any Images at all : whence it came to passe , that many w●n thought that Adrian built those Temples not to himselfe , but unto Christ , and with these agreeth Lampridius● as one who knew , that which none could then be ignorant of , that both the Iewes in the Temple at Hierusalem did worship God without Images and Pictures , as both Strabo and Dio write , and that in their dayes the Christian Churches were such , as afterwards Saint Austine reports them to have beene in his dayes .

Saint Austin upon the hundred and thirteenth Psalme , Hoc enim venerantu , quod ipsi ex auro argentoque●ec●runt , sed enim & nos plaraque inst●umenta & vasa ex hujus modi materi ● vel metallo habemus in usum celebrando●um Sacramentorum Et sunt pro●●cto etiam illa ins●rumenta vel vosa , q●●d aliu● quàm opera manuum hominum ? ve●untamen nunquid or habent , & non loquentur ? Nunquid its supplicamus quia per ea supplicamus Deo ? plus val●nt s●melachra ad curvandam infael●●m animam quod os hubent , oculos , aures ; quàm id corrigendam , quod non loquentur , non videhunt , non audient . Aug. in Psal. 113. conc. 2. expounding those words of David , that Idols have a mouth and speake not , makes this objection , that the Church hath also divers instruments and vessels made of gold and silver , for the use of celebrating the Sacraments : but he answers , have these instruments mouths and speake not , eyes and see not ? doe we addresse our prayers to them ? now surely he could not have spoken thus , if he had Images in Churches , or if Images had bin a part of the Churches Vtensils and moveables in his dayes .

Concerning Prayer to Saints , Iustine Martyr , Clemens Alexandrinus , and Tertullian have reported the publike formes of Christian service , and Religious excercises of the Primitive Christians , and yet make no mention of Prayer to Saints , or Angels , but onely of Prayer directed to God in the name and mediation of Christ alone .

Irenaeus tels us , d d Ecclesia per u●iversam mundum — Nec invocationibus Angeli●●● fac●●● a'●quid , nec incantationibus , n●● aliquâ pravâ curiosirate● sed mundè , & 〈◊〉 & m●●i●●estè orationes di●igentes ad Dominum qui omnia facit , & nomen Domini nos●●● 〈◊〉 Christi [ ●nvo●ant , virtu●t●s ] secundum utilitates b●●onum sed non a● se●ducti●ne● per●e●it . ●●n . ●● 2. c●p●●7 . 〈◊〉 Fe●● de● tius . that in his dayes the Church , per universum mundum , Irenaeus●aith ●aith not ( as e e ●Nec invo●ationibus Ang●l●●● ] mal●gnorum vid●●●●●●p●●tuum . ●ev . ●d . ● . t●s in locum Ir●n●ei . Fevardentius , and the Papists now a dayes would teach him ) that the Heretikes called upon false and imaginary Saints and Angels , and the Church upon the true Saints , and holy Angels ; but this he saith , that the Church called upon God in Christ Iesus . Eusebius in his Storie , setteth downe Verbatim a long Prayer used by Polycarp the Martyr , at the time of his suffering , wherin , if Invocation of Saints had beene reputed any part of Christian devotion in those dayes , he would undoubtedly in so great perill and at his dea●h , have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints : but his forme of Praier is Protestant-like , tendered to God himselfe only by the mediation of Christ , concluding his Prayer in this manner : f f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Euseb. Hist. lib. 4. cap. 15. therefore in all things I Praise thee , I blesse thee , I Glorifie thee through the eternall Priest [ of our profession ] Iesus Christ thy beloved Sonne , to whom with thee , O Father , and the Holy Ghost , be all Glory , now and for ever . Amen .

When the people of the Church of Smyrna desired to have the body , or bones of their Martyred● Bishop Polycarp to buriall , the Iewes perswaded the Governour not to grant it , for that then the Christians would leave Christ , and worship the body of Polycarp : to which surmise they re●urne this answer : g g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Eccle. Smy●n , apud Euseb. l. 4. hist. cap. 15 pag. 39. we can never be induced either to forsake Christ , which hath suffered for all that are saved in the World , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with religious worship . ] or to worship any other for him , being the Sonne of God [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] wee adore him ; but the Martyrs , as the Disciples and followers of the Lord [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] them wee love worthily . Now when they say , that they cannot worship any other : our learned and divine Antiquarie Doctour Vsher h h An Answer to the Iesuits Challenge . Of payer to Saints . pag. 426. observeth , that the Latine Edition of theirs , which was wont to be publikely read in these Churches of the West , expresseth their meaning in this manner : i i Nunquam Christum relinquere possumu● Cristiani , neque alterì cuiquam precem orat●onis impendere . Ex Passionario MS. vij . Kalend. Febr. in Bibliotheea Ecclesiae Sarisburiensis , & D● Robert● Cottoni . Wee Christians can never leave Christ , who did vouchsafe to suffer so great things for our Sinnes , nor impart the supplication of Prayer unto any other .

PAP .

Irenaeus termeth the blessed Virgin k k V●i virgini● Evae virgo Maria ●ie●e● Advoc●●a . I●en . lib. 5. c. 16. edit Gallasij c. 19. edit. Fevard . the Advocate of Eve .

PRO.

Indeed Bellarmine l l Bellar. l. 1. de Sanct. Beat. c. 19. quid clar●us ? cryeth up this place with a quid clarius ? what can be said more plainely ? and Fevardentius , answerable to his name , falls not upon Gallasius about this place . Now Irenaeus his meaning ( as elswhere he expresseth himselfe , m m

Sicut Eva , & fibi et universo generi humano causa facta est mortis ; sic & Maria , e●●●●i , & universo generi humano causa facta est salutis . Iren. lib. 3. cap. 33.

[ Causa salutis ] causa pro organo exteriore accipitur . N●col . Gallas . in loc.

) is this , and no more , that as by Eva Sinne came into the World , and by Sinne death ; so by the Virgins meanes , life and salvation instrumentally , in that she was that chosen vessell of the Holy Ghost , to beare him in her wombe , who by taking flesh of her , redeemed us from the curse of death . And thus she was the Advocate or Comforter of Evah and her children , by bearing Christ , and not because she was invocated , as a mediatour , after her death by Evahs children .

Of Faith and Merit .

Irenaeus ( as Chemnitius observeth n n Et ●●●è quid allud est , quam exclusiva , quod Ire●au● habet . lib. 4. c. 37.38 . Non aliter servar● homines ab antiquà Se●pentis plag●● nisi credant in cum , &c Chemnit . loc. Theolog. de Iustif. 2. part p. 773. ) though he speake not expressely of Sola Fides , yet he useth termes equivalent to that exclusive particle : saying that there is no way to be saved from the sting of that old Serpent the Devill , but by beleeving in Christ .

The Fathers of this Age , the most of them alleaged ( if not all o o

Mi●i nondum satis liquet Graece ne scripserit , an Latine , etiamsi magis arbi●●or L●tine scripsisse . E●●●in● pr●fat . in Iren.

Phrasis ejus [ ●●en●e● ] Graecismum redolet . Bellarm. de S●riptor Eccles.

) wrote in Greeke , and could not understand Merit . And Polycarp the Martyr in his Prayer above mentioned , useth the terme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , not for to deserve , but for to attaine , procure , or find favour . I thanke thee O Father ( saith he p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Euseb. lib. 4. cap. 15. ) 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that thou hast graciouslie vouchsafed this day and this houre to allot me a portion among the number of Martyrs . Now surely had the doctrine of Merit beene Catholike in his dayes , he would doubtlesse being now in extremis , and upon his fiery tryall , have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints ; but he neither pleades his owne , nor others Merits , none but Chaists .

In this Age Polycrates Bishop of Ephesu● , and other Easte●ne Bishops in Asia , withstood the Pope about keeping the Feast of Easter ; q q Euseb. hist lib. 5 ca. ●1 . 22 , 23. they prooved their custome to be received from Saint Iohn , and that it was practised and continued by Polycarp the Martyr , and others . This did so vex Pope Victor , as that he excommunicated the Churches of Asia r r V● omnes Eccle●ia A●●● ab eodem V●ctore Romano ●xcommunicat●●ueri●● . Bell●● . de verbo Dei lib● 3● cap. 6. § Secundo . : neither did he revoke his s s Q●●d Vic●●● sententiam s●●●m m●●●ve●it , nusquam le●im●● Bellarm. lib● 2. de P. 〈◊〉 c 19. §● at obijcit . censure for ought that Bellarmine can find : and yet Irenaeus a godly Bishop of Lyons in France , sharply rebuked t t Euseb. cap. 23. the Pope for troubling the peace of the Church : yea P●lycrates stood at defiance with the Pope , and contemned his threates , u u Euseb. cap. 22. to wit , excommunications .

PA.

This was no great difference .

PRO.

If it were a matter of small weight , why then would the Pope excommunicate so many famous Churches for dissenting from him therein ? Besides , Bellarmine saith , x x Qu●niam ergò Papa vide●at illam diver●itatem de Paschate adferre secum Haere●in . Bellar. de Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 19. S. Quoniam . that the Pope conceived that this difference might breede heresie ; belike then he thought it a matter of consequence .

Howsoever by this oposition to the See of Rome we may observe : that had those ancient Churches of Asia acknowledged the Popes Supremacie , they would not have thus opposed his Constitutions , nor sleighted his Censures .

In this Age also I find that when Lucius a Christian Prince in this our Britaine , sent to Pope Elentherius , to receive some Lawes thence , the Bishop returned him this Answer , as appeares by a Letter or Epistle usually inserted y y Haec Epistola communiter habetur inter leges Divi Edwardi . Antiquitat . Britan. pag. 5. in Margine . amongst the Lawes of Saint Edward the Confess●ur : z z Habetis penes vos in regno vtramque paginam , c●● illis Dei gratia per Concilium regni vestri sumere po●estis legem , vicarius verò Dei ●●●is in regno . Antiquitat . Britan. p●g. 5. There are already within your owne Kingdome the Old and New Testament , out of which by the Councell of your Kingdome , you may take a Law to Governe your people , for you are the Vicar of Christ within your own kingdom . Whence we may observe , that ( howsoever the Papists now adayes labour to prove a a Bellarminus lib. 2. de Rom. Pont. ca. 19. probare nititur primatum Papae● ex ferendi● legibus , & censuris . the Popes Supremacie , by his giving of Lawes , and inflicting his Censures on others , ) yet in these ancient times , even by the Popes owne acknowledgement , the King was held to be Supreame Governour within his owne Kingdome .

PA.

Belike then , Britaine was now Converted to the Faith .

PRO.

It was converted before this time , for in the Raigne of this Lucius , b b Dicetas , Deane of London , a Manuscript in the Kings Library ad ann. 178. alledged by M. S●●eds History of Great Br●tain , Book 6. cap. 9. sect. 18. lived those two learned British Divines , Elvanus of Glastenbury , and Medvinus of Wells ; and these two were sent by King Lucius to the Bishop of Rome , to desire a supply of Preachers to assist the Britaines ; and with them returned Faganus and Damianus , and these jointly with the Britaines , preached the Gospell , and Baptised amongst the Britaines , whereby many were daily drawne to the Fa●th of Christ , and the Temples of the heathenish Priests their Flamines , and Archflamines ( as they termed them ) were converted into so many Bishops , and Archbishops Sees ; as the Monke of Chester , Ranulphus Higden , c c Polychronic . lib. 4. cap. 16. pag. 163. reports . Neither yet is this to be called a conversion of our Iland , but rather a new supply of Preachers● for Iohn Capgrave a Domynick● Frier , ( one whom d d Conv●rsi●n of England , 1 Part. Ch●p. 1. num. 25. Parsons commends for a Learned man ) reports , that Elvanus the Britaine , had dispersed thorow the wilde fields of Britaine , those seeds of the Gospel , that Ioseph of Arimathea had formerly e e Ioseph ab Arimathea anno ab I●carnatione 63. cum d●cem socijs i● Britannia fid●m Christi praedicab●nt . Nova Legenda Angliae pag. 187. column● 4. sowne , and that the Pope made Elvanus Bishop in Britaine , and Medvinus a Doctour to preach the Faith of Christ throughout the whole Iland ; which sheweth that when they were sent Ambassadours to to Ele●therius Bishop of Rome , they were then no novices , but learned and practised Divines , as one of their owne Historians f f Lucius Brittaunorum Rex literas per Elvanum & Medvinum viros rerum divinarum peritos ad cum mitte●at [ Eleutherium ] Richardus Vitus Basingstoochiensis . Histor. lib. 5. pag. 1. calleth them .

THE THIRD CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 200. to 300.
PAPIST .

WHom name you in this Age ?

PROTESTANT .

In this Age there flourished Tertullian , Origen , and Saint Cyprian ; now also lived Minutius Felix a famous Lawyer in Rome , Arnobius and his eloquent Scholler Lactantius . Tertullian was a man of a quicke and pregnant wit ; hee wrote learned and strong Apologies in the behalfe of Christians ; Cyprian read daily some part of his writings , and so reverenced him , that hee used to say to his Secretary , a a Ad notarium dicere consuevit , Da Magistrum , Tertullianum videlicet designans . Hieron . in Catal. Scriptor . Eccles. Da magistrum , helpe me to my Tutour , reach me my master ; meaning Tertullian : afterwards , through spight of the Roman Clergie , hee revolted to the Montanists , and was taken up with their idle Prophecies , and Revelations .

Origen was in this his age , a mirrour of piety , and of learning of all sorts , both divine and humane ; he conferred the Hebrew text , b b Euseb. lib. ● . cap. 16. with the Greeke translations , not onely of the Septuagints , but also the translations of Aquila , Theodosion , and Symmachus ; hee found out other editions also , which hee set forth and called them Octupla or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , because every page contayned eight columnes , or severall translations , such as were then in estimation : hee was of so happy a memory , that hee had the Bible without booke ; c c

Scripturas memoritèr tenuit . Hier. ad Pammach . & Ocean .

Novu● et vetus Testamentum v●lut alter Esdras memor●tèr noverat . Tri●hem . de scriptor . Eccles.

and could at the sam● time dictate unto seven severall Clarkes or Notaries : d d Septem Notarijs potuit dictare . Trithem . Ib. hee was of such esteeme , that divers would say , e e Vincent . Lirinens . de H●res . cap. 23. Malle se cum Origene errare , quàm cum alijs ver● sentire ; that they had rather erre with Origen , than thinke aright with others : hee exhorted others to Martyrdome , and from his child-hood was himselfe desirous of the honour thereof ; but in the seventh persecution under Decius hee fainted , and his heart was so overset with feare to have his chaste body defiled with an ugly Ethiopian , that hee chose rather to offer incense to the Idoll , then to bee so filthily abused ; for this cause hee was excommunicated by the Church of Alexandria , and for very shame fled to Iudea , wher● he was not only gladly received , but also requested publikely to preach at Hierusalem : But so it was , f f Epiphanius contr● H●resin 64. lib. 2. tom. 1. in ●dit . L●● . falling upon that place of the Psalmist ; Vnto the ungodly saith God ; why doest thou preach my Lawes , and takest my Covenant in thy mouth ? whereas thou hatest to bee reformed , and hast cast my words behind thee : [ Psalm . 50.16.17 . ] These wo●ds so deepely wounded his heart with griefe , that hee closed the booke , and sate downe and wept , and all the congregation wept with him . In expounding the Scriptures , hee was curious in searching out of Allegories ; and yet falling on that place Math. 19.12 . Some have gelded themselves for the kingdome of heaven , hee tooke those words literally , and gelded himselfe , to the end hee might live without all suspition of uncleannesse : g g Amore castitati● , ut mulier●bu● securè auderet pradicare , se castrari fecit . Trithem de Scriptor . Ecclesiast. whereas hee expounded almost all the rest of the Scriptures figuratively . Hee held a fond opinion , concerning the paines of devils , and wicked men , after long torments to bee finished . It is usually said of him , Vbi bene scripsit , nem● melius , ubi malè , nemo pejus : where hee wrote well● n●ne better ; so that wee may say of him , as Ieremy of his figs , the good , none better , the evill , non● worse , Ier. 24.2 . Cypria●● was a learned godly Bishop , and glorious Martyr , he erred ( indeed ) in that he would have had , such as had beene baptized by Heretikes , if afterwards they returned to the true Church , to bee rebaptized : yet he was not obstinate in his errour : hee was as A●stin saith of him , h h Non solum do●●●● sed etiam do●ibilis . August . l. 4. de Baptis . cap. 5. not onely learned , but docible , and willing to bee learned ; and that i i Satis f●cilimè o●tendit se correctu●um fuisse sententiam suam , si quis e● demonstraret . Id. Ibid. lib. 2. cap 4. hee would most easily have altered his opinion , had this question in his life time beene debated by such learned and holy men , as afterwards it was : so that S. Austin makes this observation touching Cyprians errour ; k k Prop●ere● non vidit aliquid , ut per ●um aliud super eminent●us videre●ur . Id. Ibid. lib. 1. cap. 18. hee therefore saw not this one truth touching Rebaptization , that others might see in him a more eminent and excellent truth ; to wit , his humilitie , modestie , and ch●ritie .

Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon .

Tertullian , though hee stood for Ceremoniall traditions unwritten , and for Doctrinall traditions which were first delivered from the Apostles by word of mouth , and afterwards committed to writing ; yet dealing with Hermogenes the Hereticke in a question concerning the faith , ( whether all things at the beginning were made of nothing ? ) presseth him with an Argument ab Authoritate negativè ; Whether all things were made of any subject matter , I have l l An autem de aliquâ subjacenti materiâ f●cta si●t omnia , ●usquam adhuc legi ; Scriptum esse doceat Hermogenis Officina . Si non est scriptum , tim●a● vae illud adijci●●tibus aut de●rahentibus des●inatum . Tertul. advers. Hermog . cap. 22. as yet read no where ( saith hee ) Let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written : if it bee not written , let them feare that w●e which is allotted to such as adde or take away : but for himselfe hee professeth , that m m Adoro Scripturae pi●n●tudin●m . Id. Ibid. hee adoreth the fulnesse of the Scripture . And why may not wee also argue negatively , touching divers Tenets of Poperie ? that from the beginning it was not so , Math. 19.8 .

In the two Testaments ( saith Origen n n In quibus liceat omne verbum quod ad D●um pe●tinet r●quiri et discuti ; atque ex ip●is om●em rerum scientiam c●pi . Si qu●d ●●tem super●uerit quod non divina Scriptura decernat● nullam aliam de bere terti●m scripturam ad authoritatem scientiae suscipi . Orig. in Levit. Homil. 5. tom. 1. ) eve●y word that appertaineth to God may bee required and discussed ; and all knowledge of things out of them may be understood : but if any thing doe remaine , which the holy Scripture doth not determine ; no other third Scripture ought to be received for to authorize any knowl●dge . Origen in his exposition upon the first Psalme , faith , w●e may not bee ignorant , there are two and twenty bookes of the old Testament after the Hebrewes ; which is the number of the Letters among them . This is likewise witnessed by Eusebius , o o Euseb. lib. 6 Histo● . cap● 24. that as Origen received the Canon of the Iewes , so likewise he reiected those sixe bookes which wee terme Apocriphall with the Iewes .

Of Communion under both ; and the number of Sacraments .

Tertullian speaking in generall of Christians , saith , p p Caro corpore et sanguine Christi ●escitur , ut & anim● de Deo saginetur . Tertul de Resurrect . cap. 8. the flesh feedeth upon the body and blood of Christ , that the soule may be fat●ed , as it were of God : hee speakes of the body and blood of Christ as distinct things ; saying , Corpore & sanguine ; and elsewhere he mentions the Cup given to a Lay-woman , saying , q q De cujus manu d●●iderabit ? de cujus po●ulo participabit ? Ter●ul . lib. ● . ad V●orem cap. 6. from whose hands shall shee desire the Sacramentall Bread , of whose Cup shall shee participate ? hee speaketh of a Christian woman married to an Infidell , and sheweth the inconvenience of such a match , whereby the faithfull wife was like to bee debarred of the comfort of receiving the Sacrament , and drinking of the Lords Cup. Origen maketh this question ; r r Populus in usu habet sanguinem bibere . Origen . hom. 16. in Num. What people is it , that is accustomed to drinke blood ? and hee answereth the faithfull people . Hereunto Bellarmine sai●h ; s s Respondeo , habet in usu , non in precepto Bellar. de Euchar. lib. 4 cap. 26. the people did drinke , but they had no comm●nd so to doe ; where hee grants us , that communicating under both kinds , was the Agend or Church practise in this age : besides , Origen in this very place alleadgeth Christs praecept for the Cup out of the sixt of Iohn .

Cyprian speaking of such as in time of pers●cution , had lapsed and not stucke to the truth , and ther●upon were barred from the Communion , hee desires that upon their repentance they may bee admitted , and hee gives this reason : t t Quomodo a● Martyrij poculum idone●s facimus si non eos pri●s ad bibendum in Ecclesi● poculum Domini jure communicationis admittimus ? Cyprian . epist. 54. ●om. 1. lib. 1. epist. 2. in alijs edit . How shall wee sit them for the Cup of Martyrdome , if before wee admit them not by right of Communion to drinke of the Lords cup in the Church ? And againe ; u u In calice Domini sanctificando , & plebi ministrando , non hoc faciunt , quod Iesus Christus sacrificij hu●us auctor et doctor , 〈◊〉 et do●uit . Id. Epist. 63. lib. 2. ep. 3. Because some men out of ignorance , or simplicity in Sanctifying the Cup of the Lord , and ministring it to the people ; doe not that which Iesus Christ our Lord and God , the Authour and Institutour of this Sacrifice did and taught : Where albeit the maine scope of the Epistle bee , to prove the necessity of administring the Sacrament in Wine , and not in meere water , as the Aquarij did ; yet on the bye he discovers the practice of the Church for both kinds ; and saith expressely , that the Cup was ministred , or delivered to the people .

Tertullian , in divers places x x Nec alibi conjunctos ad Sacramentum Baptismatis , & Eucharistiae admittens . Tertul. advers. Marcion . lib. 4. cap. 34. & de Co●onâ Militis . cap 3. of his works acknowledgeth the same Sacraments with us , to wit , Baptisme , and the Lords Supper : and Beatus Rhenanus in his notes upon Tertullian , observes the same , and for this hee is brought under the Spanish inquisition , y y Censurae Inquisitionis Hispanicae in B. Rhenani Aannotationes ad Tertullian . Prout edita sunt in ●udice Libror . Expurgator . jussu Quiroga . Madriti 1584. ex libro 4. advers. Marcion . Deleantur illa verba , [ Baptismus & Eucharistia duo Sacramenta Primitivae ecclesiae . ] and roughly entertained for his paines , as appeares by a Censure passed on him , and extant z z Tertulliani opera cum c●stigat . Fr. Iunij in Bibliop . Commel●●●●●o . 1609. in the latter end of Tertullians Works .

Of the Eucharist .

Tertullian disputing against Marcion , who denied that Christ had a true Body , confuteth him by a reason drawne from the Sacrament of the Supper , in this manner .

A Figure of a Body , presupposeth a true Body , for of a shew or phantasie there can be no Figure .

But Christ gave unto his Disciples a Figure of his Body .

Therefore Christ had a true Body .

Tertullians words are these : a a Ac ●ptum panem & distributum discipulis , corpus suum illum fecit , hoc est corpus meum dicendo , id est , Figura corporis mei : figura autem non fuisset , nisi veritatis esset corpus : c●terum vacua res , quod est phantasma , figuram capere non posset . Tertul . advers. Marcion . lib 4. cap. 40. Christ taking the Bread , and distributing it to his Disciples , made it his Body , saying , This is my Body , that is to say , this is a figure of my Body , but a figure it could not be , unlesse there were a Body of a truth and in deed : for a void thing as is a fantasie , can receive no figure . Here Tertullian affirmeth expressely of Bread , which he received into his hand , and distributed to his Disciples , that it it is a figure of Christs Body . The Rhemists answer , b b Rhemists Annot. on Math. 26. chap. sect. 9. that when some Fathers call the Bread , a figure or signe , they meane the outward formes of Bread and Wine ; but Tertullian proving the truth of Christs humanitie , by the Sacrament of the Supper , interprets these words , This is my Body , that is to say , the figure of my Body ; where , if by the figure of Christs Body , there were nothing else to be understood , but the formes , and outward shapes , the Here●ike upon this construction might have concluded for himselfe ; that the figure of his Body is nothing but a bare forme and shape of a thing , therefore he himselfe was nothing else but a ●hew of a Body , no true Body .

Others expound Tertullians words in this sort : c c Master Fisher in D. White● Reply 6 point . pa. 400.401 . The figure of my Body is my Body , or this Bread which under the Law , was a figure of my Body , is now my Body .

But Tertullian both here , and in divers other places , d d

〈…〉 Deus in Evangelio reve●avi● , panem corpus suum appellans . Tertul . con . Marcion . l 3. c. 19.

Panem quo corpus suum repraesentat . Ibid. l. 1. c. 14. Et contra Iudaeos . cap. 10.

makes Bread the Subject of the proposition , this is my Body , now the Accidents and shape of Bread , are not Bread .

In a word Tertullian sheweth that Christ called Bread his Body , in saying , this is my Body , as the Prophet Ieremie e e [ Venite mittamus lignum in ●●nem ejus . Ierem. 11. ] Vtique in corpus ; sic enim De●s in Ev●ngelio , panem corpus suum appellan●● ut & hin●●am eum intellig●● corpori● sui figuram p●ni dedisse , cujus retr● co●poris in panem Prophetes figuravit . Tertul. l. 3. advers. Marcion . c. 19. called the body bread , in saying , Let us put wood upon his bread , meaning his Body ; shewing them both to be spoken equally in a figurative sense . For although Tertullian say , that the Bread of the Old Testament was a figure of Christs body , yet he denyeth not thereby that it is so in the new .

The truth is , Tertullians exposition is so full for us , that Gregorie Valence rejects it . f f Greg. de Valent. in Sum. Aquin. tom . 4 disp. 6. de praes●nti● Ch●isti in Euchar. pag. 968. Paris . 1609.

Cyprian in the third Epistle of his second booke , saith , g g Vinum fuit , quod sanguinem suum dix●t . Wee find that the Cup which the Lord offered was mixed , and that that which he called bloud was wine . So that if we aske Cyprian , what consecrated thing it was which Christ had in his hands , and gave to his Disciples ? he answereth , h h

D●dit Dominus noster in mens● proprijs manibus panem & vinum ; in cruce verò manibus militum corpus tradidit vulner●●dum .

— Vt significant●● & significata eisdem vocabuli● consecre●tur . Cypr. lib. de V●ctione num. 7.

it was bread and wine ; and not absolutely that , which hee gave up to be crucified on the Crosse by Souldiers , ( namely ) his body and bloud ; if againe we demand of Cyprian , why Christ called the bread which he had in his hand , his body ? he readily answereth , saying , the things signifying ( or signes ) are called by the same names , whereby the things signified are termed .

Objection .

Cyprian saith , that this bread is changed , not in shape , but in nature , naturâ mutatus , i i Panis iste non e●●igie , sed naturâ mutatus omnipotentia verbi factus est caro . Cypr. de coena . Dom. nu. 6. and by the omnipotencie of God , is made flesh : now omnipotencie is not required to make a thing to be a signe significant . k k Omnipotentia non requiritur , ad faciendum ut res aliquid significet . Bel. lib. 2. de Euch c. 14.

Answer .

Bellarmine saith , l l

Bellar de scriptor . Eccles. & lib. 2 de Euch●r . cap. 9. § extet .

Et de Confirmat . lib. 2. cap. 6.

Cyprian was not the Author of the booke De Coenâ Domini ; and he saith well , for these Sermons are extant m m Doctor Iames of the Bast●rdie of Fathers . Part. 1. pag. 12. in All-Soules Colledge Library in Oxford , in an ancient Manuscript under the name of Arnoldus Bonavillacensis , and Dedicated not to Pope Cornelius , ( as these are pretended ) but to Adrian the fourth , about the yeare 1150 , the same time that Saint Bernard lived , and wrote an Epistle to this Arnoldus .

But to let it passe for Cyprians ; it followes not , the bread is changed in nature , therefore it is Transubstantiated ; for every change of nature is not a change of substance ; nature implies qualities and properties , as well as substances : an evill man changeth his nature when he becomes a good man , yet is he not Transubstantiated ; bread is ch●nged when of common it becomes consecrated to an holy use , and office , and omnipotencie is required to make the dead and corruptible elements , a bit of bread , and a draught of wine , not onely significative , but truly exhibitive seales of the body and bloud of Christ ; and to elevate them so high as to bee chanels and effectuall instruments of Grace .

Besides , the Author by the words naturâ mutatus , changed in na●ure , understood not a coporall change ; for in the same sentence he declareth himselfe , n n Et sicut in person● Christi , humanitas videbatur , & la●ebat divinitas ; it● Sacramento visibili , ineffabiliter divina se insudit essentia . Cypr. de coena Dom. num. 6. by the example of Christs humanitie , which being personally united to the Deitie , is changed , but not so as that it looseth his naturall forme and substance .

Origen against Christs Body going into the Draught .

To proceed , Origen saith , o o Ille cibus quì sanc●i●icatur per verbum Dei , perque objecrationem , juxta id quod habet materiale , in ventrem abit , & in se●essum ●ij citur ; caeterùm juxta precationem qu● illi a●cessit pro port●o●e ●idei fit ut●lis : nec materia panis , sed super illum dictus sermo est , qui prodest non indignè domino comeden●i illum : & haec quidem de Typico Symbolicoque corpore . Origen . in Math. cap. 15. that meat which is Sanctified by Gods Word and Prayer , as touching the materiall part thereof , goeth into the belly , and is voyded into the draught ; but as touching the Prayer which is added according to the portion of Faith , it is made profitable ; neither is it the matter of bread , but the word spoken over it , which profits him that doth not unworthily eate thereof ; and these things I speake of the Typicall and Symbolicall bodie . Here wee see Origen disting●isheth betweene the Spirituall bread , which is the reall body of Christ , and the bread Sacramentall , saying , that not that body , but this bread goeth into the draught , or seege , which no sanctified heart can conceive of Christs body .

Now whereas Bellarmine saith , p p Bellar. lib. 2 de Euc●ar . cap. 8. §. ad tertium . that the Accidents onely are called by Origen the materiall part : wee answer that it was never heard that meere Accidents were called ( which are Origens words in this place ) either meates or materialls .

The truth is , this place of Origens touching the typical and symbolical body , is so cleere for us , that Sixtus Senensis growes jealous of it : to speake my mind freely ( saith he q q Ego , ut liberè pronun●em sen●entiam meam su●picor hunc locum suisse a● hereticis depravatum . Sixt. Sen. Biblioth● Sanct. lib. 6. Annot 66. ) I suspect this place to bee corrupted by Heretikes .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Concerning Images , Origen replieth thus to Celsus the Philosopher ; that r r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Origen . contr. Celsum . li. 7. pag. 3●6 . it is not a thing possible that one should know God , and Pray to Images ; and that Christians did s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. pag. 387. not esteeme these to be Divine Images , who used not to describe any figure of God , who was invisible and without all bodily shape , nor could endure to worship God with any such kinde of service as this was . In like manner , when the Gentiles demanded of the ancient Christians , t t Cur nullas aras habent , te●pl● nulla , nulla nota simula●hr● ? Min. Felix in Octavio . pag. 27. why they had no knowne Images ? Minutius Felix returnes them for answer againe : u u Quod enim simulach●um Deo singam , ●ùm si recte existimes , sit Dei homo ipse simulachrum . Id. ibid. pag. 104. What Image shall I make to God , when man himselfe , if thou rightly judge , is Gods Image ? and againe , x x Cruces c●iam n●● colimus , n●● optamus . Id. ibid. pag. 97. we neither worship , nor wish for Crosses : these holy Images which vaine men serve , want all sense , because they are earth . Now who is there that understandeth not , that it is un●it for an upright creature to be bowed downe , that he may worship the earth ? which for this cause is put under our feete , that it may be troden upon , not worshipped by us , y y Ipsae imagines sacrae , quibus vaniss●●● homines servlunt , omni sensu c●●●ent , quoniam terra sunt : quis autem non intelligat , nesas esse rectum animal curvari , ut ad ret t●●ram ? quae id●irco pedibus nostris ●ubjecta est , ut cal●and● nobis , non adoranda ●it . L●ctan● Divinar . Iustit . li. 2. cap. 18. wherefore there is no doubt , that there is no Religion , wheresoever there is an Image : z z Quare non est dubium , quin Religio nulla sit , ubi●u●que simulachrum est . Id. ibid. cap 19. thus farre Lactantius .

Tertullian stood not onely against adoration of Images , but al●o against the very making of them ; a a Idolum t●m sieri qu●m coli Deus prohibet . Tertul. de Idolatr● c●p . 4. & 5. as formerly Clemens Alexandrinus had done .

Concerning Saintly Invocation , Origen saith , b b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Origen lib. 8. cont. Celsum . pag. 432. wee must endeavour to please God alone , and labour to have him Propitious unto us , procuring his good●will with godl●nesse , and all kind of vertue . And if Celsus will yet have us to procure the good●will of any others , after him that is God over all , let him consider , that as when the body is moved , the motion of the shadow thereof doth follow it ; so in like manner , having God favourable unto us , who is over all , it followeth that wee shall have all his friends , both Angels , and Soules , and Spirits loving unto us . And whereas Celsus had said of the Angels , that they belong to God , and in that respect , we are to pray unto them , that they may be favourable to us ; to this Origen answereth in this manner : c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. pag. 406. Away with Celsus his Councel , saying , that we must pray to Angels ; for we must pray to him alone who is God over all , and we must pray to the Word of God , his onely begotten , and the first borne of all creatures , and we must intreat him , that he as high Priest would present our Prayer ( when it comes to him ) unto his God , and our God .

Objection .

Iesuit Fisher saith , d d M. Fishers Rejoynder to D. Whites Reply . that Origen in his writings upon Iob e e O bea●e Iob ora pro nobis miseris . Orig. l 2. in Iob and Numbers f f Quis dubitat quod sanctiqueque orationibus nos ●●vent . Orig. in cap. 31. num. taught Invocation of Saints .

Answer .

Bellarmine saith , g g Bellar. de Scriptor . Eccles in Origen . that Origen was not the author of those bookes upon Iob : for therein is mention made of the Homousians ( so the Arrians called the Orthodox beleevers ) . Now the Arrians rose not till after Origens time .

Origen indeed upon the Canticles saith , h h Si dix●ris sanctos pro nobis orare non erit inconveniens . Orig. in Cant. cap 2. it is not inconvenient to say , that the Saints pray for us ; and in his Homily upon Iosuah , he ●aith , i i Ego fic arbitror , quod om●es illi qui do●mie●uat ante no● P●tres , pugnent nub●seum , & adj●●e●t nos oratio●ib●s sui● . Origen . in Ios. Homil 16. I doe thinke thus , that all those Fathers who are departed this life before us , doe assist us with their Prayers : and in another place he saith , k k ●●m 〈◊〉 si etiam extrà corpus positi sancti , agunt aliqu●● , & laborant pro nobis , ha●●●atur hoc quoque inter ●●●ulta Dei , nec ●ha● 〈◊〉 committenda m● st●ria . I● . lib 2 in epist. ad Rom cap 2. if the Saints that have left the body , and be with Christ , doe any thing , and labour for us ; let this also remaine among the hidden things of God , and mysteries that are not to be committed unto writing . Now we yeeld that the Saints pray for us in generall ; yet hence it followeth not , that we should direct our prayers to them . Besides , Origens , if , and , as I suppose , and it is not inconvenient to say so ; these are but ●aint affirmations , shewing that he speaketh doubtfully , as on not fully resolved that it was so , and in conclusion determineth , si laborant pro nobis , if in particular , upon particulars , they doe labour for us , yet it is amongst Gods secrets , and a mysterie not to be committed to writing .

Object .

It appeareth by Saint Cyprian , l l Si quis nostr●m prier d●vin● dignationis ce●eritate pracesseri● , p●rseveret ●pud cum nustra dilectio pro fratribus & sororibus ●pud m●●ericord●●m Patris non ce●●et oratio Cypr. lib. 1. epist. 1. vel ( ut in alij● edit . ) epist. 57. ad Cornel. & de Discipl . & ha●itu . virg. that the Faithfull us●d to covenant in their life time , that whether of them went to heaven before the other , he should pray for his surviving friend .

Answer .

Concerning Saint Cyprians conceipt , that the Saints after death remembred their old friends here , as having taken fresh and particular notice of their severall states , votes , and necessities ; it followeth not thence , that other Saints unacquainted with our particular desires and exigents , doe in particular , and by their merits , intercede for the living ; and though they should make sute on our behalfe , yet we have no warrant to pray to them .

To close up this poynt of Prayer to Saints , Tertullian , Cyprian , Gregory Nyssen , with others , have written set Treatises de Oratione , of Prayer , and therein they deliver nothing touching this Saintly invocation : but teach us to regulate m m Alitèr orare quàm Christus do●uit , non ignorantia sola est , sed & culpa . Cypr. de Orat. Dom. all our Prayers according to that perfect patterne prescribed by our great Master ; wherein wee are required to direct our Petitions unto our Father which is in heaven : Math 6.9 . Luk. 11.2 .

These things ( saith Tertullian n n Haec ab alio orare non poss●m quàm à quo me sci● consecuturum , quoniam & ipse est qui solus praestat , et ego sum cui impetrare debetur , famulus e●us , qui eum solùm observo . Tertul. in Apologet. cap. 30. in his Apologie for the Christians in his time ) I may not pray for from any other , but from him of whom I know I shall obtayne them ; because both it is he who is alone able to give , and I am he unto whom it appertaines to obtaine that which is requested , being his servant , qui eum solum observo , who observe him alone .

Of Faith and Merit .

Origen saith o o Dicit sufficere solius Fidei Iustificationem . Orig. lib. 3. in epist. ad Rom. c. 3. that Faith onely suffiseth to justification ; and concerning Merit , the same Origen saith , p p Vix mihi suadeo , quòd possit ullum opus esse , quod●x debito remunerationem Dei depos●at ; cùm c●iam hoc ipsum , quòd agere aliquid possumus , vel cogitare , vel proloqui , ipsius d●no● & largitate ●aciamus . Orig. lib. 4. in epist. ad Rom. c. 4. I ca●●ardly hee perswaded , that there can bee any worke which may require the reward of God by way of debt , seeing this very thing it selfe , that wee can doe , or thinke , or speake any thing , we doe it by his gift and largesse .

Objection .

Did not Origen and Tertullian hold Purgatory ?

Answer .

Bellarmine indeed alledgeth q q Bellar● lib. de purgat . cap. 4. §. tertio . Tertullians Booke de Animâ for proofe of Purgatory ; but it is well knowne r r Hoc etiam Paraclet commendavit . Tertul. de Animâ . cap ult. that hee was led with the spirit of Montanus the Hereticke when he wrote that booke : and for Origen , Bellarmine s s Non desue●unt , qui purga●orium adeò proba●riot , ut nullas poenas nis● pu●gato●●as post ha●c vit● agnoverin● , it a O●●genes sensit , qui & Daemonibus t●ndem salutem polli●●tur . Bellar. ibid. c 2. § Por●● . confesseth , hee was one of those who approoved so much of Purgatory , that he acknowledged no other paines after this life , but Purgatory penalties onely ; so that with him Hell and Purgatory were all one .

Objection .

In Saint Cyprians time , t t Cyprian lib 3 ●p● . 15. Tertulli●n de Pudicit●● cap 22. the Martyrs intreated the Church for mitigation of penance imposed upon some offenders ; so that the satisfactions and suffering of Martyrs were communicated to others , and thereby their indulgence or pardon was procured .

Answer .

In those times of persecution , when many weake ones fell away from the open profession of the truth , and sacrifised to Idols , the Church sought by all meanes to honour Martyrdome , and incourage Christians thereunto ; so that upon the request of imprisoned Confessors , and designed Martyrs , the Bishops were wont to release some time the Canonicall censure injoyned by the Church : but these Martyrs did not he●eby think that they had made satisfaction for the temporall paine of Sin . Besides , this was spoken of living Martyrs , and not of Ma●tyrs defunct ; and of releasing censures , & forgiving faults in this world only , & not in Purgato●y .

PA.

Did not Cyprian hold Saint Peters Supremacie ?

PRO.

Hee might doe much with Pamelius his helpe , who hath taken the Marginall glosse , Petro primatus datur , and put u u

〈…〉 Fathers . 〈…〉 M. Be●el in his 〈◊〉 to M. Wadsworth p●g. 101.

B. Bilson . Di●ference of sub●●ction and reb●llion . 〈◊〉 part pag. 89.

it into Cyprians text ; whereas Cyprian in the self●-same Treatise saith , x x Hoc erant ut●que & 〈◊〉 Ap●●●oli , quod ●uit 〈◊〉 , par● consortio 〈◊〉 & hon●ris & po 〈…〉 — sed exordium ab 〈…〉 . Cypr. de 〈◊〉 Eccl●siae . the rest of the Apostles were even the same that Peter was , being indued with the like fellowship of honour and power . Cyprian indeed reverenced the Sea of Rome , yet would hee have her keepe within h●r bounds , as appeares in the case of Fortu●atus , and others ; for so it was , Cyprian having censured them , and fearing lest they should flie to Rome , and there seeke favour and protection from that Sea , and so worke distraction between Rome and Carthage , makes a decree to prevent Appeales to other places , or claimes of other Bishops : and this Synodall Epistle is sent to Pope Corn●lius , perswading him not to admit of their complaints : Seeing that it is decreed of us all ( sayth S. Cyprian ) N●m ●um s●●tutum sit 〈…〉 , & ●q●ū sit pa●iter a● jus●um , ut 〈…〉 causa illic 〈◊〉 ubi est crim●n 〈…〉 non 〈…〉 agere illic 〈◊〉 ●uam , ubi & 〈…〉 sui 〈◊〉 p●s●unt ; ●●si si pau●is d●speratis & 〈◊〉 mino● vi●●tur ●sse 〈◊〉 ●pi●●oporum in 〈◊〉 constitutorum● qui 〈◊〉 de illi● judicav●runt . C●p●ian lib 1 e●ist . 3. in 〈…〉 ●p●st . 55. that it is meet and right that every mans cause be heard where the crime is committed ; and every Pastor hath committed unto him a portion of the Flocke ( of Christ ) which hee is to gov●rne , and whereof hee is to give an account unto God ; and they who are under our governement ought not to gad and wander , but they should pleade their cause there , where both Accusers and Witnesses may bee had ; except some few desperate and naughty fellowes thinke the authority of the Bishops of Africke , which have already judged and condemned them to be l●sse , meaning lesse than that of Cornelius , to whom they fled .

Here wee finde opposition made to the Sea of Rome by that Catholike z z Cyprianus semper est habitus in nume●o C●t●olic●rum . B●lla●min . lib. 2. de Concil cap 5 § Altera Martyr Cyprian and others , even in the weighty poynt of Appeales : for so Bellarmine a a Appellatio e●t c●r●iss●mum A●gumētum Princip●tus . Bellarm. lib. 2. de Rom Pont. cap. 21. makes appealing to Rome , and not appealing from thence , a main● proofe of the Popes Supremacie .

Now to close up this age , and to looke a little homeward ; all this time the Christian Religion flourished quietly in Britaine , till in Dioclesians dayes ( which made vp the tenth persecution ) their Churches were demolished , their Bibles burnt , their Priests and their flocke murthered : for now was Saint Alban beheaded b b Math. Westmon . ad annum 303. at the City Verulam , now called after him Saint Albanes , of whom Fortunatus Presbyter an ancient Poet sayth : Albanum egregium foecunda Britannia prof●rt . Fruitfull Britaine bringeth forth , Alban , a Martyr of great worth .

Hee was the first that in Britaine suffered death for Christ his sake ; whereupon he is called our Stephen , and the Proto-martyr of Britaine . In like sort his Teacher , or Instructer Amphibalus c c Math. Westmon . Ibid. was cruelly Martyred at the same place , being whipped about a stake , whereat his entrailes were tyed , and thus winding his bowels out of his body , was at last stoned to death ; so also was Iulius and Aaron d d Master Speeds Historie lib. 6. cap. 9. sect. 19. Martyred at Leicester ; and in Lichfield so many , that the place became another Colgatha , or field of dead corps , for which cause the City doth beare a field charged with many Martyrs diversly tortured , they beare it for their Seale of Armes , even unto this day , as Master Camden hath recorded . Now these Martyrs they suffered for that truth which we at this day hold ; and not for Popish Tenets , which then were not in being .

We have now Surveyed the Fathers Faith , and practice of the Church , for the first three hundred yeares next after Christ ; and by this particular , ( as Hercules whole body was measured by the breadth of his foote ) the Reader may proportion what were the Churches Creed , and her Agends generally and constantly taught and practised in these times , and I doubt not but he shall find , that for substance of Religion they held as wee doe , and not as the moderne Papists doe ; so that in comparison of Originall , and Primitive Antiquity , Poperie is but noveltie , and this hath beene already shewne , when as we drew the Character of the three first Centuries . I will now onely give instance in the point of Indulgences , and shew , that in these best and ancient times , there were no such Popes pardons , as afterwards were marted . For in latter times we find it recorded in the Salisbury Primer , e e Horae B. virginis Mar●● ad Sarisburtensis ●cclesiae ritum ●um Orationibus & Indulgentijs Paris . 1529. that Iohn the two and twentieth , for the mumbling over of some short Prayers , granted a Pardon of no lesse , than a million of yeares . Besides , these three Prayers be written in the Chappel of the holy Crosse in Rome , who that devoutly say them , they shall obtaine ten hundred thousand yeares of Pardon for deadly sinne , granted by our Holy Father , Iohn the two and twentieth Pope of Rome : and of another Prayer to be said as one goes thorow a Church-yard , the same booke saith , as followeth : f f Ioannes Papa 12. concessit omnibus ●icenti●us orationem sequentem transe●●d● per C●emeterium tot ann●●um Indulgenti●s , quot fue●unt ibi corpora inhumata ● cons●itutione ipsius Coemeterij . Id. quò supra . Pope Iohn the twelfth granted to all that shal say the Prayer following , as they passe by any Church-yard , as many yeeres of Indulgences , as there have beene bodyes there buried since the Consecration of the said Church-yard .

In the same booke , there is power given to one little prayer beginning with O bone Iesu , to change the paines of Hell into Purgatory , and after that againe , the paines of Purgatory , into the joyes of Heaven . This Prayer is written in a Table that hanged at Rome , in Saint Peters Church , neere to the high Altar , there , as our holy Father the Pope is wont to say Masse ; and who so that devoutly with a contrite heart daily say this Orizon , if he bee that day in the state of eternall damnation , then his eternall paine shall be changed him into temporall paine of Purgatorie , and if he have deserved the paine of Purgatorie , it shall bee forgotten and forgiven , through the infinite mercie of God . Now sure I thinke that Antiquitie cannot paralell such presidents as these .

THE FOVRTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 400. to 500.
PAPIST .

WHat say you to this fourth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

This was a learned Age , a a Bucolceri Chronolog . hoc tempore fulserunt in Ecclesia Dei clarissima lumina . ad Ann. 365. for now there lived Optatus Bishop of Milevis in Africa , and in Asia there lived Epiphanius Bishop of Cyprus , Cyril Bishop of Hierusalem , Macharius the Monke , Basil the great ; the Christian Demosthenes , as Erasmus calls him b b Dan Tossanus in Synopsi de Legendis Patribus . cap. 3. , Gregory Nazianzene sirnamed the Divine , and Grigory Nyssen brother to Saint Basil , these three were equall in time , deare friends , and of neere alliance ; now also lived the Hammer of the Arrian Heretickes Athanasius the great , Bishop of Alexandria , great indeed for his learning , for his vertue , for his labour , for his suffering , when almost the whole world was set against him ; but above all great for his Creed , the Athanasian Creed . He suffered much trouble for the truth , but God upheld him , so that he dyed in peace , full of dayes , after he had governed the Church of Al●xandria six and forty yeares : Nazianzene compared c c Percuti●●tibus Alamas ●ffi●itur . Nazianzen . orat . 31. in laudem Athanasij . him in time of adversity to the Adamant , for that no trouble could breake him ; and in time of prosperity to the Load-stone , for that hee allured the hearts of men , more intractable then Iron , to imbrace the Truth of God .

In Europe there lived Hilarie Bishop of Poictiers in France , and Ambrose Bishop or Millaine ; Ambrose was a man of noble parentage , under the Emperour Valentinian hee was Governour of Liguria , he was chosen from a secular ●udge to bee Bishop of Millaine , and was faine to be christened before he could be consecrated , he was zealous and resolute , hee sharpely reproved Theodosius for the sl●ught●r of the innocent people of Thessalonica , hee was grievously troubled by the Lady Iustina , mother to Valentinian the second , he said to his friends that were about him at his death , d d P●ssid . de vità Augustini . cap. 27. tom . 1. Non sic vixi , ut me pudeat inter vos vivere , nec mori ●imeo qu●a bonum habemus Dominum Et Buchol●er . in Chronol. ad Ann. 398. I have not so lived , that I am ashamed to live longer , nor yet feare I death , because I have a good Lord .

Of the Scriptures sufficiencie .

Athanasius saith , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Athan. orat 1. cont. Gent. tom. 1. sufficiunt per se , vertit Petr. Nann●us . the holy Scriptures given by inspiration of God , are of themselves sufficient to the discoverie of truth ; now if they be ( as the word signifieth ) allsuf●icient to instruction , then must they needs be all sufficient to all instruction in the truth intended , and not onely sufficient for this or that point , as Bellarmine would have it f f L●quitur non de omnibus d●gm●●●bus , sed sol●m ●e duobus . B●ll●r de verbo Dei non script● . li. 4. cap. 11. §. Profert . Saint Hilarie commendeth g g Verè te D. Constanti Imperator admiror , ●idem tantùm 〈◊〉 lù●● ea quae scripta sunt deside antem . Hilar. de ●rinit . lib. 2. the Emperour Constantius , for desiring the Faith to be ordered onely according to those things that be written : th● same Hilarie h h Su●●●●●ebat quul● crede●tibus Dei se●m●● quid enim in eolem Sacramento saluris hum●n●e non contin●tu● ? aut quid sit quod reliquum est , aut obs●rii ? pl●na sunt omnia ut à ple●● & persecto ●acta . Id. ibid. lib. 2. assures us that in his dayes , the word of God did suffice the beleevers ; yea , what is there saith he , concerning mans salvation , that is not conteined in the word of the Evangelist ? what wants it , what obscuritie is there in it ? all things there are full and perfect .

Saint Basil saith , i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Basil. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de side , Inter Ascetica , ●ive exercitamenta Monach. tom. 2. it is a manifest falling from the Faith , and an argument of arrogancie , either to reject any point of those things that are written , or to bring in any of those things that are not written .

Gregory Nyssen layeth this for a ground , k k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg Nyssen . de Animâ & Resu●rect . to . 2. edit. Gr. & Lat. pag. 639. which no man should contradict ; that in that onely the truth must be acknowledged , wherein the seale of the Scripture testimonie is to be seene .

The same Father in an oration of his , calleth the Scripture , l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. tom. 2. deijs qui adeunt Hierosol . an even , streight , and inflexible Rule ; neither ment●oneth he any more rules but this on● ; and adding the word ipsa to the Rule , he delareth the same to be an adaequate , and onely Rule .

Of the Scripture Canon .

The Councell of Laodicea saith , m m Quae autem opor●eat legi , & in authoritatem recipi haec sunt ; Gen●sis &c Not mentioning the Controversed Bookes . Con●il . Laod. Can. 59. Caranz . in Sum. Concil . we ought to reade onely the bookes of the Old and New Testament ; yea the same Councell recites onely those Canonicall bookes of Scripture which we allow , and the Canons of this Councell though a provinciall Councell , are confirmed by the sixt generall Councell in Trullo : now if it be replied , the Laodicean Councell excludes the Apocrypha , the Carthaginian Councell receives them , and both these were confirmed in the sixt generall Councell , held in the Palace called Trullo , and how can this stand together ? the matter is thus reconciled ; the Laodicean speakes of the Canon of Faith , the Carthaginian of the Canon of good manners ; to both which the sixt Councell subscribed in that sence , and we to it .

To proceed , Hilary tells us ; n n In viginti duos libros , Lex Testamenti ve●●●is deputet●r , u● cum literarum numero conveni●ent . Hil. in Prolog . in Psalm . explanat . the Law of the Old Testament is conteined in two and twentie bookes , according to the number of the Hebrew letters ; and Athanasius saith the same , and as touching the Apocryphall bookes , as namely , the booke of Wisedome , Maccabees , and the rest , he saith ; o o Praeter i●●os au●em ●unt ad●uc alij e●u●dem veteris Instrumenti Libri , qui non sunt Canonici , qui Catechumenis ta●tum legantur , Sapientia Sal●m●nis , &c. Athanas. in Synopsi . Libri non sunt Canonici ; they are read onely to the Caetechumens , ( or novices in Religion ) but are not Canonicall .

Epiphanius after he had reckoned up the Canon of two and twentie bookes , censureth the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesias●icus in these words ; o o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epipha● . in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . de pond . & mens they are fit and profitable , but not reckoned amongst those bookes which are received by our Church ; and therefore were neither laid up with Aaron , nor in the Arke of the New Testament .

Ruffinus , in his explanation of the Creede , which is found among Saint Cyprians workes , and so attributed to him , setteth downe the Catalogue , conteining all those bookes which we admit , secluding all those that are now in question ; wee must know ( saith he ) q q Al●j ●●bri sunt qui ●●n sunt Canonic● , sed E●clesiastici à maso●ib●s appellati sunt , ut Sapientia Salomonis● & alia Sap. quae d●citur filij Syrach , ejusdem ord●n●● est Liber T●bi● , & Iud●th & Maccab eorum Libri — quae omnia legi quidem in Ecclesijs volue●unt , non t●men pro●erri ad authoritatem ex his Fidei con●●rm●nd●m . Ru●●in . sive Cyp●●an . in explic . Symboli . pag. 189 par. 1580. that there be also other bookes , which are not Canonicall , but are called of our Ancestors , Ecclesiasticall , as is the Wisedome of Salomon , Ecclesiasticus , Tobias , Iudith , and the bookes of Maccabees ; all which they will indeed have to be read in the Church , but not to be alledged for Confirmation of Faith . To this testimonie of Ruffin , Canus a Popish writer thus replieth : r r Ru●●inus ( pa●e Le●tor●●●ictum sit ) ●a●rum trad●ti●n●s igno●avit Canus Loc. 〈◊〉 l 2. c. 11. although Ruffin did affirme , that the bookes of Maccabees were to be rejected by the tradition of the Fathers , yet by the Readers leave , he was ignorant of that Tradition ; as if Canus a late writer , were better skilled in the Primitive tradition than Ruffinus , or Cyprian .

Gregorie Nazianzen nameth s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg N●z . in edit. G●ae●o-lat to . 2. num 33● all the bookes that wee admit , save that he omitteth the booke of Hester , being misperswaded of the whole , by reason of those Apocryphall additions to it .

Now Bellarmine would shift off such testimonies as these , by saying ; t t S●i●bat rem non fu●sse a 〈◊〉 a G●●●rali Con●il●o d●s●●●tam . Bel●●r . de verbo Dei . li. 1 cap. 10. it was no fault in them to reject these book●s , because no generall Councell in their dayes had decreed any thing touching them . But we aske how it came to passe , that so many Catholike Divines after this pretended decree of their Canon rejected these bookes , as others had done before ; for some in every Age rejected th●m .

Of Communion under both ; and number of Sacraments .

Gregory Nazianzene saith of his sister Gorgonia , in this manner : u u

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Gr. Nazianz. orat . 11. in laud. Gorgon .

— ac ●icubi quidpiam signorum preciosi corporis aut sanguinla manus condiderat . Interprete Iac. Billio . tom. 2. orat 35 edit . Lat.

if her hand had laid up any portion of the types or tokens of the precious body , and of the bloud : he saith , that his sister after she had communicated , she laid up some part of the Sacrament , of the body and bloud of Christ , now as she kept the consecrated bread in a cloth , so she might carry the wine in a viall ; howsoever this religious woman received in both kinds .

The same Nazianzen bids , x x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. Nazian. orat . 40. in sanctum Baptism . tom. 1. reverence the Lords Table to which thou hast accesse , the bread whereof thou hast beene partaker , the cup which thou hast communicated , being initiated in the passions of Christ .

Athanasius , being accused for breaking a Chalice , writeth thus ; y y

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

Hie enim usus est C●lici● & p●aeter cum alius nullus ; eoque solo vos legitimo ritu propinatis populo . Athan. Apolog. 2. contra Arrianos . to . 2. p●g. 385. Petro Nannio Interprete .

What manner of Cup ? or when ? or where was it broken ? in every house there are many Pots , any of which if a man breake , he committeth not sacriledge ; but if any man willingly break the sacred Chalice , he committs sacriledge ; but that Chalice is no where , but where there is a lawfull Bishop : This is the use destin'd to that Chalice , none other ; wherein you , according to institution , doe drinke unto , and before the Laity . This was the custome in Athanasius his dayes .

Saint Ambrose speakes to a great secular Prince Theodosius in this sort ; z z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theodoret● hist. eccles. lib 5. cap. 18. — & Ambros. in orat . ad Theodos . How dare you lift up to him those hands , from which the blood yet droppeth ? will you receive with them the sacred body of our Lord ? or how will you put in your mouth his precious bloud , who in the commanding fury of your wrath have wickedly shed so much innocent bloud ? The same Saint Ambrose , in his d d Ambros. de Sacramentis● tom 4. & de ijs qui Mysterijs initian●●r . Treatise that hee wholly set apart for the laying foorth of the Doctrine of the Sacraments , specifyeth not any other , than either those two of ours , Baptisme , and the Lords Supper ; and yet wee have of his ( as they are divided ) six● bookes de Sacramentis , of the Sacraments . And so I come to treat of the Sacrament Of the Eucharist .

PA.

You have produced Hilarie and Cyril of Hierusalem , on your side , whereas they make for us in the poynt of the Sacrament ; Saint H●larie sayth , nos verè verbum carnem cibo Dominico sumimus ; Hil. l. 8. de Trinitate .

PRO.

Hilaries testimony was much urged by Mr. Musket Priest , and was notably cleered by Doctour Featly , in the second dayes disputation ; now to the place alleadged he sayth , The Word truely became Flesh , truely , to wit , by Faith and Spiritually , not with the mouth , and carnally .

Objection .

These words of Hilarie , Sub Sacramento communicandae carnis , and the like following , nos verè sub mysterio carnem corporis sui sumimus , wee truely receive the Flesh of his body under a mystery , prove the reall presence of Christs flesh under the formes of bread and wine .

Answer .

Saint Hilarie , by the words , [ Sub Sacramento , and sub mysterio carnem sumimus ] , meaneth nothing , but that in a mystery , or Sacramentally , we eate the true flesh of the Sonne of God ; sub mysterio is no more than in mysterio , that is , mystically , under a similitude , in a similitude , or after a resemblance .

Object .

St. Hilarie sayth , in the booke alleadged [ de veritate carnis & sanguinis non est relictus ambigendi locus ] of the trueth of Christs flesh and bloud there is no place left for doubting .

Answer .

Neither doe we doubt of the truth of Christs body and bloud , but firmely believe the doctrine of the true Inca●nation of Christ .

Objection .

Hilarie saith [ in nobis carnalibus manentem per carnem Christum habemus ] we men consisting of flesh and bloud have Christ remayning in us by his fl●sh .

Answer .

So wee have by reason of our mysticall union with Christs flesh , and not by any corporall transubstantiation of our flesh into Christ . The same Hilarie saith [ nos in eo naturaliter inessemus , ipso in nobis naturaliter permanente ] Christ is naturally in us , and wee in him , but wee are not in him naturally or carnally by any transubstantiation , therefore neither is he so in us ; these termes then of Hila●ies , [ permanent●m in nobis carnaliter silium ] the sonne remayning in us carnally , note onely a greater and more reall union , than barely by consent or concord of will , such as the Arrians acknowledged onely betwixt the Father and the Sonne , denying an unitie of nature , purposely to avoid that text , I and the Father are one● Hilary speaking of this neere union , calleth it the mysterie of a true and naturall union , [ mysterium verae ac naturalis unitatis ] and so indeed it is , in respect of Christs inseparable union which hee hath with us by his incarnation , by which he is become flesh of our ●lesh , and bone of our bone ; and in respect of our mysticall union with him and his body , whereby wee become members of Christs body , and quickned by his spirit .

Object .

Saint Cyril in his fourth Catechisme saith , He that in the marriage of Cana changed water into wine , by his onely will , is not hee worthy that wee beleeve him that he hath changed wine into his blood ?

Answer .

S. Cyrils place maintaineth not Popish transubstantiation ; for in this , the shapes and accidents remaine , and the materiall substance is corrupted ; but in our Saviours miracle in the second of Saint Iohn , the shapes , accidents , and forme were changed , and the common materiall substance remained , Iohn 2.9 .

Object .

Cyril saith it is not simple bread and wine , it is not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ibid.

Answer .

Hee sheweth his meaning to be this , namely , that the consecrated bread , is not common , ordinary , and meere naturall bread ; but sanctified , elevated , and changed to supernaturall use and operation . And so I proceed .

The Elements called Antitypes after Consecration .

The Fathers of this age , treating of the Sacramentall Signes , call them Similitudes , correspondent types or figures of the body and blood of Christ ; the figure of the body and blood of the Lord Iesus , saith b b Similitudinem p●etiosi sanguinis bibis . Ambr. de Sacram. lib. 4. cap. 4. Ambrose : and Nazianzene speakes ( as wee have heard ) of his sisters laying up some portion of the types or tokens of Christs precious body and blood ; and againe , c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. Nazian. Apolog. orat . 1. tom. 1 quomodo illud magno●um mysteriorum Antitypum ipsi offerre a●derem ? how durst I offer unto him the type of so great a mysterie ; in l●ke sort Cyril of Hierus●lem cals d d Cyril . Hierosol . 5. Cate●he● . Mystag . them types and antitypes ; and they call the Symboles after Consecration [ Antitypes . ] Now that which is a figure , similitude , and representation of a thing , is not properly the same .

PA.

It followeth not e e Rhemists Annot. on Luke 22. Sect. 7 on Heb. 1. sect. 1 & the Rejoynder to D. Whites Reply the 6. point . the Eucharist is termed the figure of Christs naturall body , therefore it is not substantially and properly his body . The figure of a thing may be the same with the thing figured . Christ Iesus is a figure of his Fathers substance , [ Hebr. 1.3 . ] and yet is the same substantially with the Father , Iohn 10.30 .

PRO.

There is such opposition of Relatives , as that the signe and the thing signified cannot bee the same in that very respect and point , wherein they are opposite : for the instance brought , it followeth thus ; the sonne is the cha●acter of his Fathers substance , ergo the Son is not the Father , though of the same substance , nor is the Father the Sonne : so must the opposition of necessity hold ; the Sacrament is the figure , signe , and representation of Christs body , ergo it is not the body of Christ , but sacramentally , and figuratively .

In a word ; you say , that Christ is a Character , and figure of his Father , and yet of the same substance ; but to have spoken home to the matter in question , you should have said , that Christ a figure of the Fathers person , is yet the same person that the Father ; which is utterly false .

To proc●ed , Saint Ambrose saith ; f f Si ergo tanta vis est in sermone Domini , ut inciperent esse quae non erant quantò magis operator●us est , ut sint quae ●rant , & to aliud commut●ntur . Ambr. de sacram . l 4 ca. 4. if th●re bee such v●rtue in the words of our Lord , to make those things that were not , to begin to bee ; how much more powerfull is his word , that they remaine the same they were , and yet bee changed into another thing ? hee holdeth the bread and wine in the Lords Supper to remaine , to bee the same tha● they were ; therefore they are not changed in substance , for then they should not be the same they were ; yet hee saith they are changed into other , to wit , not in substance but in qualitie , use , and signification ; for so hee saith , g g Ante benedictionem alta species nominatur post consecrationem corpus significatur . Ambr. lib. de ijs qui mysterijs initian●●r . before the blessing of the heavenly words another kind is named ; after the Consecration , the body of Christ is signified . Now if by the consecrated bread in the Eucharist the body bee signified , then is not bread essentially the body .

PA.

Saint Ambrose in the ninth chapter of such as are newly instructed in the mysteries saith ; h h Ambr. de ijs qui myster. initiantur . cap 9. Moses his word changed the water of Aegypt into blood ; if so great was the benediction of man , what may wee thinke of divine Consecration where the very words of our Saviour worke : hee saith also , i i Quia benedictione etiam Natura ipsa mutatur . Id. ibid. that by benediction or consecration the nature of the Elements in the Lords Supper is changed .

PRO.

Among the six or seaven examples bro●ght by Saint Ambrose , only two are substantiall , and the rest accidental , for in the place alledged , he addeth also these examples ; that Moses divided the Red Sea , that Iordan turned his cou●se , that the bitter waters of Mara were made sweet ; in all which workes of God there was no Transubstantiation ; for the waters and the Red Sea were the same in nature and substance , as they were before ; so that by these examples it appeareth , that notwithstanding Saint Ambrose say , the nature is changed , yet he meant a change in qualitie onely , and not in substance . And such a change there is in the Eucharist ; the Elements are changed , when of common and naturall creatures , they are made sacred , and become Channels , and Instruments of saving grace ; and such a change Ambrose meant ; for comparing these miracles of the Prophets , wherein God changed the nature of things , with the change that is wrought in the Sacrament , he saith , k k Non minus est novas rebu● dare , quam mutare natura● . Ambr loco citat . that it is no lesse to adde some new things , unto things , than to change the nature of things , averring plainly thereby that the bread had received some new thing , without loosing the nature of bread ; and such a change is not strange , for thus a piece of waxe becomming the Kings Seale changeth it's nature without Transubstantiation .

Besides , the Fathers use the like Tenour of speech of the Sacrament of Baptisme , and yet doe not hence inferre any Transubstantiation : they say , l l

Non agnosco usum naturae , ubi est excellentia gratiae . Ambros de ijs qui myst . 〈◊〉 cap. 9.

Quid v●listi ? [ ●q●as ●ti que ] sed non solas . Id. ibid. cap. 3.

the word of Christ is most efficacious to alter the propertie of naturall water , and to give regenerating force and vertue to it . Saint Ambrose saith , that in Baptisme man is changed , and made a new creature . Learne ( saith he ) m m Post●aquàm consecratus es , 〈◊〉 creatura esse coepisti . Serm● Christi ●reaturam omnem muta●e consueverit , & mutat quando vult instituta natur● . Idem de Sacram lib. 4. c●p. 4. how the word of Christ is accustomed to change every creature , and when he will he altereth the course of nature .

Saint Cyril saith , n n Spirit●s Sanct● operatione 〈…〉 . ●y●il . Alexandr . 〈◊〉 Ioan li. ● cap. 4● . ●om . 1. Ge●rg . Tra● 〈…〉 . the waters are changed into a divine nature . And Gregorie Nazianzene saith , o o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. N●zi●n 〈…〉 pag. 643 tom. 1 Paris . 1609. that by Baptisme we put on Christ , by Baptisme we are changed or transmuted into Christ . Now from hence we cannot infe●re that ei●her the water of Baptisme , or regenerate persons are changed by Transubstantiation ; the change is not corporall in either of the Sacraments , but mysticall in use and signification .

In the Church ( saith p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Macar . Aegypt . Homil. 27 Macarius , Scholler to Saint Anthonie ) bread and wine is offered ; the type of his flesh and bloud ; and they which are partakers of the visible bread , doe Spiritually eate the flesh of the Lord . Now according to this Father , bread and wine are taken , bread and wine are offered ; and these be the types or tokens of the body and bloud : and that they be so called after Consecration , is likewise acknowledged by Bellarmine . q q Bellar. de Euchar. li. 2. c. 15. § Sed haec .

And we may farther observe that the words of Macarius are so cleere for the spirituall , and not corporall receiving ; as that some were faigne to set a Marginall glosse r r Offerendum esse in Ecclesi● panem & vinum exemplar exhibens carnem ipsius & sanguinem● sumentesque de pane visibili upon Macarius his text . * * spiritaliter carnem domini edere . Macar . homil. 27. in Bib. S. Patr. tom. 2. edit. 2. pag. 398. per Marg. de la Bigne . Par. 1589.

Of Image-worship .

The Councel of Elliberis in Granado in Spayne , * * spiritaliter , id est , non visibili modo , & eo quo editur alia caro● sed spiritali & indivisibili . in margine . decreed s s Placuit , pic●uras in ecclesia esse non debere ; ne quod colitur aut adoratur in parietibus depingatur . Concil. Eliber . cap. 36. That no Pictures should or ought to be in the Church , lest that which is worshipped or adored , should be painted on walls . Now it will not serve to say , that the Councel onely forbad the painting of Images on Church-walls , where in time of persecution , or otherwise , they might be defaced ; as if they might be set or hung in tables ; for the Councels decree runs generally , saying , It is our mind that Pictures ought not to be in the Church . Now if it forbad the very being of them in Churches , then surely it utterly condemned their adoration .

Melchior Canus chargeth this ancient Councel with impietie , t t Illa [ Lex ] impiè à Concilio Elibertino lata est de tollendis Imaginibus . Melch. Canus loc. theol l. 5. c 4. for making such a decree de tollendis Imaginibus . Saint Ambrose saith , u u Non vult se Deus in lapidibus coli . Ambr. in ep. 31. ad Valent. Imp. lib. 5. tom. 3. God would not have himselfe worshipped in stones : x x Quae Ecclesia i●anes Ideas , & vanas nescit simulachrorum figuras , sed veram novit Trinitatia substantiam . Id. de fug● saeculi . cap. 5. tom. 1. the Church knoweth no vaine Idaea's , and divers figures of Images , but knoweth the true substance of the Trinity . The fact of Epiphanius ( which himselfe records y y Epiphan. edit . Lat. in fine operum . in his Epistle to Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem , translated by Saint z z Epist. Epiphanij ad Ioan. Hierosol . in tom . secundo oper. Hieronymi . Hierome out of Greek into Latine ) is very famous in this case , namely , how himselfe found a Picture in the Church of the village of Anablatha , which ( though it were out of his owne Diocesse ) yet in an ho●y zeale he tore it , and wrote to the Bishop of the place , beseeching him that no such Pictures might bee hanged up , as being contrary to Religion .

The words of Epiphanius are these : a a Inveni ibi velum pen●●n● in sori●●s ejus●●m eccl●si● tinctum atque depi●tan● . & habens imaginem quasi Christi vel Sancti cujusd●m , non enim satis memini , cu●as imago suerit ; cùm ergè hoc vidissem , in Ecclesia Christi contra out●rit●●ē Scripturarum hominis pend●●e Im●ginem , sci●●illud — Epiphan. quò ●up●a . I found there a vayle hanging at the doore of the Church dyed and painted , and having the Image as it were of Christ or some Saint ; for I doe not well remember whose Image it was : when therefore I saw this , that contrary to the authority of the Scriptures , the Image of a man was hanged up in the Church of Christ , I cut it , and gave counsel to the keepers of the place , that they should rather wrap and burie some poore dead man in it : and afterward hee intreateth the Bishop of Hierusalem ( under whose governement this Church was ) to give charge hereafter , b b Dein●●ps p●aecip●re in Eccl●si● C●risti is●i● ismo●ivel● quae contrà R●ligionem nostram veniu●t non appendi . Id. Ibid. that such vayles as those which are repugnant to our Religion , should not be hanged up in the Church of Christ .

I know indeed , that Iesuit Fisher would shuffle off this evidence , by saying , that it was the picture of some prophane Pagan ; b●t Epiphanius himselfe saith , it had imaginem quasi Christi , vel Sancti cujusdam , the image as it were of Christ , or of some Saint : surely therefore the Image went for Christs , or for some noted Saints , neither do●h he finde fault with the irresemblance , but with the Image , as such . Baronius saith , c c ●●ono● astarum poti●●●●gmentum quam Epip●anij ge●●a●um scriptum Baron . A●●●l . tom. 4. ad ann. 392 nu. 59. they are rather the forged words of some Image-breakers , than of Epiphanius : Bellarmine would disproove them by sundry conjectures , which Master Rivet * * An● . 〈◊〉 Criti●i Sacri . lib. 3. cap. 29. rejects , and defe●d● the foresayd Epistle of Epiphanius , clearing it from all the Cardinal 's cavills : a●d surely if we observe Epiphanius his practice about the foresayd Image , and his Doctrine of Mariam nemo adoret , we may well thinke these two had both one Father .

PA.

The Idolatry forbidden in Scripture , and disliked by the Fathers , is such as was used by Iewes and Pagans ; and this wee Christians practise not .

PRO.

Indeed the Apostle , when hee disswadeth Christians from Idolatry , propounds the Iewes fall , saying , Neither be yee Idolaters , as some of them were [ 1 Cor. 10. 7 , 8. ] The like also hee addeth touching another sinne , Neither let us commit fornication , as some of them did : as well then might one pleade that Iewish or Heathenish fornication were onely reprehended , as Iewish or Heathenish Idolatry , it being a foule sinne , whether it bee committed by Iewe , Pagan , or Christian , and more haynous in the Christian , who professeth Christ , to practise that which Gods word condemneth in the Iewes and Pagans for Idolatry .

PA.

The Heathen held the Images themselves to be Gods , which is farre from our thought .

PRO.

Admit some of the simpler sort of the Heathen did so , what shall wee say of the Iewish Idolaters who erected the Golden calfe in the wildernesse ? can wee thinke that they were all so sencelesse , as to imagine that the calfe , which they knew was not at all in rerum naturâ , and had no being at that time , when they came out of Aegypt , should yet be that God which brought them out of Aegypt . [ Exod. 32.4 . ] And for the Heathen people , though they ( haply ) thought some divine Majestie and power was seated in the Images ; yet they were scarcely so rude as to thinke the Images which they adored , to be very God ; for thus we find them usually to answer in the writings of the Fathers : d d Deo● inquitis per simul achia veneramur . Arnob . contra Gent. lib. 6. sect. 10. Wee worship the Gods by the Images ; and , e e Nec Simulachrum nec Daemonium colo , sed per ●ffigiem corporalem ejus rei signum intu●●r , quam colere debeo . August . in Psal. 113. concion● secunda . I neither worship the Image , nor a Spirit in it , but by the bodily portraiture , I doe behold the signe of that thing which I ought to worship .

PAP .

Though the Heathen did not account the Image it selfe to be God ; yet were those Images set up to represent either things that had no being , or Devils , or false-Gods , and in that respect were Idols ; whereas we erect Images onely to the honour of the true God , and of his servants the Saints and Angels .

PRO.

Suppose that many of the Idolatrous Iewes and Heathens Images were such as you say they were , yet they were not all of them such : howsoever , Idolatry is committed by yielding adoration to an Image of the true God himselfe , as appeareth by the first Chapter of the Epistle to the Romanes , where the Apostle having said , that God shewed unto them that which might bee knowne of him ; and that the Invisible things of him , that is , his eternall power and Godhead , was manifested unto them by the creation of the World , and the contemplation of the creatures ; hee addeth presently , that God was sorely displeased with them , and therefore gave them up unto vile affections , because , They changed the Glory of that incorruptible God , into an Image made like unto corruptible men , and to birds , and foure-footed beasts , and creeping things : whereby it is evident , that the Idolatry condemned in the wisest Heathen , was the adoring of the invisible God , whom they acknowledged to be the Creatour of all things , in visible Images fashioned to the similitude of men and beast , as the admirably learned , Bishop Vsher hath observed f f Doctor Vshers Sermon the 18. of Febr. ann. 1620. in his Sermon preached before the Commons House of Parliament in Saint Margarets Church at Westminster .

Of Prayer to Saints .

There wanted not some , who even in the Apostles daies under the pretence of g g Colloss. 2.18 . Humilitie , labored to bring into the Church the worshipping of Angels , which carried with it h h ●oid .. vers. 23. a shew of Wisdome ( as Saint Paul speakes of it ; ) not much unlike that of the Papists , who teach their simple people , upon pretence of Humilitie , and their owne unworthinesse , to prepare the way to the Sonne , by the servants , the Saints and Angels ; this they counselled ( saith i i Ill● ergo hoc consul●bant utique humilita●e utentes , di●entes universorum De●m , nec cerni nec ad cum perveniri poss● ; & opo●tere p●r Angelos divinam sibi benevolentia● concili . re . Theodoret in Coloss. cap. 2. to . 2. Gentiano Herveto interprete . Theodoret ) should be done , using humility , and saying , that the God of all was invisible and inaccessible ; and that it was fit men should get Gods favour by the meanes of Angels . And the same Theodoret saith k k Oratoria sancti Michaeli● . Theod quò suprà . that they had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Oratories , or Chappels of Saint Michael . Now the Councel of Laodicea , to meete with this errour , solemnly decreed ; l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Concil. Laodice● can. 35 In edit. T●lianâ● p. 841. that Christians ought not to forsake the Church of God , and goe and invocate Angels , and pronounced an Anathema against any that should be found to doe so , because ( say they ) He hath forsaken our Lord Iesus Christ , the Sonne of God , and given himselfe to Idolatry . And Theodoret mentions the Canon of this Councel , and declares the meaning of it in these words : m m Hanc e●iam l●gem sequens , Laodicena Synodus , & volens veteri illi morbo mederi , Lege cavit ne precarentur A●gelos , & ne reli●qu●r●nt Dominum nostrum Iesum Christ●● . Theod. in 3. cap. ad Col. Whatsoever ye doe in word or deed , doe all in the name of the Lord Iesus , giving thanks to God , and the Father by him . —

The Synod of Laodicea also following this Rule , and desiring to heale that old disease , made a Law , that they should not pray , unto Angels , nor forsake our Lord Iesus Christ : now there is the same reason of Saints , that there is of the Angels .

PA.

Iesuit Fisher in his Rejoynder to Doctor Whites Reply , the second and third point , saith , The Councel and Theodoret are thus to be understood , that Angels are not to be honoured as Gods .

PRO.

How appeareth it that Christians were so rude in those Ages , as to imagine that Angels were Gods ? or that sacrifices after the Pagan manner , were due to them ? It appeareth by Theodoret , that those whom he condemneth did not thinke the Angels to be Gods , but that they served them as ministring Spirits , whose service God had used for the publishing of the n n Dicentes , ●uisse ●ege● p●r eos dat●m , id est , per Angelos Theod. in 2. c●p . Coloss. Law .

PA.

Bellarmine saith ; o o Conciliu● non damn●r qu●mlibe● v●n●r●tionem Angelorum , sed eam quae Deo prop●●● es● . B●llar . de sanct. Beat lib. 1. c. 20. § Hie●on●m● . The Councel forbad all worship of Angels , called Latreia , as being proper unto God : but Binnius liketh p p Mihi magis pl●cet ●xpositio Baronij , q●ia it hoc Canone 〈◊〉 ac religiosam venerationem 〈◊〉 Deorum , eo●um nimirum quos Gentiles Idololat●ae venerab●ntur , Christ●●nis interdictam es●e . B●● . in Synod Laodic p. 294. ●ol. 2● . Baronius exposition better , who saith , The Councel onely forbad the religious worship of false and heathe●●sh Gods .

PRO.

Bellarmine doth wrong in restraining the Councels speech to a speciall kind of worship : for Theodoret saith generally , that the Councell forbad the worship of Angels . Neither did the Councell meane thereby to forbid the religious worship of false and heathenish Gods ; for Theodoret mentioneth the Oratories of Saint Michael , and of such Angels as were supposed to give the Law , and therefore were not ill Angels .

Baronius perceiving that the place in Theodoret toucheth the Papists to the quicke , telleth us plainely , q q Ex his vide●s ( quod necessario dicendum est ) Th●oderetum haud satis feliciter ( e●us pace sit dictum ) assecutum esse Paul● verborum sensum . Baron Annal. tom. 1. ann. ●0 . sect. 20. That Theodoret , by his leave , did not well understand the meaning of Pauls words : and that those Oratories of Saint Michael were anciently erected by Catholikes ; as if Baronius a man of yesterday , at Rome could tell better what was long since done in Asia , than Theodoret a Greeke Father , and an ancient Father and Bishop , living above twelve hundred yeares agoe , not farre from those parts , where these things were done .

Others , to avoid the force of the canon , have corrupted the Councell , making this reading ; r r Non oportet ad angulos cong●egationes ●acere . ●aranza in summâ Concilior . That men should not leave the Church , to pray in angles or corners ; turning Angelos into Angulos , Angels into Angles or corners ; but Veritas non quaerit angulos , the truth will admit none of these corners ; neither hath the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 any affinitie at all with corners . To proceed , the Fathers of this age affirme , that religious prayer is a proper worship belonging to the sacred Trinitie ; and by this argument [ Rom. 10 . 14● ] conclude against the Arrians and Macedonians , that Christ Iesus and the Holy Ghost are truely God , because Christians believe in them , pray unto them , & they accept their petitions .

Athanasius saith ; s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Athanas. orat . 4. contr. Arri●n . No man would ●ver pray to receive any thing from the Father , and from the Angels , or from any of the other creatures . Gregory Nyssen saith : t t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. Nyssen . cont. Eunom . tom● 2. orat . 4. pag. 146. Wee are taught to worship and adore , that nature onely which is uncreated ; u u Anton. Meliss . lib 2. Serm. 1. and accordingly Antonius in his Melissa hath set downe the foresaid sentence ; but the Spanish Inquisitors have commanded x x Deleatur dicti● , ●●lum modo . Ind. 〈◊〉 . p●● Quirog . Madr. ann. 158● that the word Onely should bee blotted out of his writings : Now the word Onely , is the onely principall word , whereupon the whole sentence dependeth .

In like sort , where Athanasius saith , that y y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . A●●an . to . 1. orat . 3. contr. Arrianos . God onely is to bee worshipped , that the Creature is not to adore the creature , that neither men , nor Angels are to be worshipped . The popish Index ( as is already observed in the Preface to this Treatise ) hath razed z z Ex Athanasij Indi●● d●lean●ur . Adorari soliu● Dei est , Creatura creaturam non adorat . Ind ●xpurg . Madr. 1612. E● per Tu●re●●n . Genev● . 1619. these sayings out of his Index , or table , which yet remaine in the text .

Epiphanius tels us of some superstitious women that were wont to offer up a Cake to the blessed Virgin , and this vanitie hee calleth a a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Epiphan. in hae●esi Collyrid . haer 79 p 1065. the womans Heresie , because that sexe mostly vsed it , but hee reproves them saying ; b b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Ibid pag. 10●4 . 1065 Let Mary bee in honour , but let the Father , and the Sonne , and the Holy Ghost bee worshipped , let no man worship or adore Mary ; and indeed hee bends all his force against that point of adoring ; no lesse then in sixe severall places , saying ; [ Mariam nemo adoret . ] Now Adoration being condemned , it can not bee conceived , that adoring her , and offering to her , they prayed not also to her , and required of her , somewhat againe . All which Epiphanius reprooves .

Saint Ambrose speaking of our Advocate , or Master of Requests , saying ; c c Q●id enim t●m 〈◊〉 C●r●stum quam Advocatum apud D●●n● Pat●em ad●●are popul●rum ? Ambr tom. 4 in Psal. 39. What is so proper to Christ , as to stand by God the Father for an Advocate of the people ? d d Sed tamen tu solus Domine invocandus 〈◊〉 Ambros. tom 3. de 〈◊〉 Theodsij and elsewhere hee saith , Tu solus Domine invocandus es , thou Lord onely art to bee invocated : and whereas there were some that about this time sued unto Saints and Angels , saying ; Am●ros . tom. 5. in Rom cap. 1. Wee have recourse to Angels and Saints with devotion and humilitie , that by their Interc●ssion God may bee more favourable unto us . Saint Ambrose ( or who ev●r else was author of those Commentaries upon Saint Pauls Epistles that are framed among his workes ) hath well m●t with them , calling it , f f So e●t tam●● pu●o●em p●ssi n●g●●c●i Dei , 〈◊〉 u●i ●x●us●tione , dicentes p●rist●s pos●e ire ad Deum● si●ut per ●●mites per●e●atural Regem Id ibid. A miserable excuse , in that they thinke to goe to God by these , as men goe to the King by an Of●icer : Goe to ( saith he ) g g Age , nu●qui● t●m demens est aliqui● , aut salutis suae imm●m●r , ut honorisicentiam Regis vindicet C●mit● — nam & ideò ad Regem per Tribunos aut Comites itur , quia homo u●ique est Rex , & nes●it quib●s debeat Rempublicam credere . Ad Deum autem ( quem utique nihil latet , omnium enim me●ita no●it ) promerend●m suffragatore non opus est , sed mente devot● . ubicunque talis locutus suerit ei , respondebit illi . Id. ibid is any man so mad , or so unmindfull of his salvation , as to give the Kings honour to an Officer ? for therefore doe men goe to the King by Tribunes or Officers , because the King is but a man , and knoweth not to whom to commit the state of the Common wealth : but to procure the favour of God , from whom nothing is hid ( for he k●oweth the works of all men ) wee need no spokesman but a devout mind : for wheresoever such a one shall speake unto him , he will answer him . This testimonie is so full , that it makes mee remember what I have seene written with his owne hand , in Saint Ambrose his Margent by Archbishop Hutton , ( one that by Campians testimony h h Matheus Huttonus , ●ui v●r nominatus in paucis . ve●sare patr●s dicitur . Campian . Rat. 5. was well verst in the Fathers ) namely , hoc testimonium jugulat pontificios , this evidence choakes the Papists .

Reply .

The place alleadged is none of Saint Ambroses ; neither was hee the Authour of those Commentaries on Saint Paul's Epistles i i Commentaria in Epistolas S. Paull à multis non creduntur Amb●●sij , nec sine causà . Bellar. de Scriptor . Eccles. ad ann. 374. .

Answer .

Wee are not so streightned , that wee need make any great reckoning whether they bee his or no ; for wee have alleadged other places of Saint Ambrose out of his workes , of which there is no question . And yet they are usually cited under Saint Ambrose his name : Bellarmine in five severall places alleadgeth them , k k R●bertus Cocus in censu●a Scripto●um Vet. p. 133. and in particular this Commentary on the Romanes ; and the Rhemists they vouch them too : and when any thing in these Commentaries seeme to make for them , then they cry them up and say , l l Bea●us Ambrosi●s in cap 3. prime ad ●imoth . inqui● ; D●mus ●ius Ec●l●si● di●itur , cujus ●odi● Rector e●t Damasus . Bellarm de R●m . Pont. l. 2 c 16 §. Certius ● . Amb●os . Beatus Ambrosius ; and when they would thence proove the Pope to bee the ruler of the whole Church , then the stile runnes Blessed S●int Ambrose in his Commentaries saith thus , and thus : and then Saint Ambrose is the Authour of them .

Reply .

Where Saint Ambrose saith , Thou Lord onely art to bee invocated , it is ( saith Cardinall Perron ) very true , of Invocation absolute , soveraigne , and finall .

Answer .

This is as much as wee desire , saith our acute and learned Bishop of Winchester Doctor m m B. And●ews Answer to Cardinall Perrons Reply . Pag. 44.45 . Andrewes ; for as for their relative and subalterne Invocation , wee know them not ; and it is likely the Fathers knew not of any such oblique meanes to helpe men in their devotions : for if they had , so many , so diverse Fathers , in so many Treatises , specially where they wrote de Oratione , of Prayer , must somewhere have mentioned them .

Reply .

Saint Ambrose saith , Ad Deum suffragatore non opus est ; now suffragari is to give ones voice . God indeed needs not any ( be they Elements , Stars , Angels , or Saints they meant ) to interpose betweene God and men , pour l' enformer , to informe him : but there needs some to interpose betweene God and men , pour les favoriser , to procure favour on our behalfe .

Rejoynder .

Although the word in Heathen Authours be used in that sense , yet in the Churches stile , Suffrages are taken for Prayers ; and in their Portuises language I find that Suffrages n n Suffragia de S. Antonio . Ora pro nobis Bea●● Pa●er Antoni . Hor● B● M●r. are used for Ora pro nobis : now to the poynt . God , as hee needs not any Referendarie to give him intelligence , nor Counsailer to give him advice ; so neither needeth bee any Solliciter to incline him to heare the Prayers of a devour spirit , but the great Mediatour of all , which is Christ our Saviour , saith our learned Winchester . o o Id Ibid. pag 43.

Reply .

Bellarmine replyeth , p p Intelligi●●● 〈…〉 Dei , q●a●i 〈◊〉 , D●us 〈◊〉 eg●r interpretibus , ●um . ps● p●● se om●●a vid●●● , & int●llig●● ; tam●n●x 〈…〉 lepus est suff● 〈…〉 . Bel. li. 1 d● Sa●●● Be●● . cap. ●0 . §. Ad● that non opus est su●●ragatore , is not sayd on our part , but on Gods .

R●joynder .

It would bee asked of him , saith the same learned Bishop , q q Id. ibid. p 44. when it is sayd , Ad D●um suffragatore non est opus ; whether non est opus , sh●ll bee non est opus nobis , or non est opus Deo ; to say , non est opus Deo , were absurd ; so i● must bee non ●st opus nobis , and so the opus est must needs lye on our parts .

Reply .

Bellarmine saith , r r Dico● cum agere contrá ●thnicos , qui As●●●tum cursus col●bant , Bellar . de Sanct. Beatit . li. 1. cap. 20. §. ad ●ocum Ambr●si● . that Ambrose speakes against the Heathen that worshipped the Starres : whereupon hee saith that they worshipped their fellow servants , that is , Creatures .

Answer .

How doth it appeare , that they were so rude , as to imagine that the Starres were Mediatours to God for them ?

PRO.

What doe you say to the testimonies of Athanasius , Ambrose , and Epiphanius , alleadged s s Quintum Arg●m●ntum ex P●t●b●s , Athanas. serm 3. c. Ar●ian● docet neq●e Angelos , neque homin●s sanct●s ad natione colend●s esse . Epiphan. in haer . Coll● rid sepius r●petit , Mari●m non ●sse adoran lam , sed solum Deum . Ambros. in cap. 1. ad Rom. reprehendit e●s qui adorant c●nservos . Bell●r . de Sanct. Beat● l. 1. c● 11. §. Quintum . against praying to Saints ?

PA.

Iesuit Fisher in his Rejoynder to Doctour Whites Reply , sayth , t t I. F. Rejoynder to D. Whites Reply , the 2 and 3 poynt . The Fathers are thus to be understood , that Angels are not to be honoured as Gods , nor by Sacrifices in the heathenish manner .

PRO.

This answer is defective ; for the Fathers not onely when they answer Heathens , but when they instruct Christians , deliver the like speeches ; as appeareth by Chrysostome in the fifth Age. Besides , how doth it appeare that Christians were so rude in those Ages , as to imagine that Angels were Gods ? or that Sacrifices after the Pagan manner , were due to them ?

Reply .

B●llarmine saith farther , u u Ad ultimum ex Patribus ●●ico co● loqui con●r●● erro●es Ge●ti●um , qui ●x h●miribus 〈…〉 ●sserebant . 〈◊〉 l. 1 de 〈…〉 §. ad ultimum collat cum ●ine c. 11 that the Fathers alleadged doe speake against the errours of the Gentiles , who made wicked men departed , their Gods , and did offer Sacrifice unto them .

Rejoynder .

By this Reply of Bellarmines , the Reader ( saith the Right reverend & learned Lord Primate Doctor x x An answer to a Ch●llenge m●de by a Iesuite in Ireland . S. Of prayer to Sain●s . pag ●76 Vsher ) may discerne the just hand of God , confounding the mans wits , that would thus abuse his learning to the upholding of Idolatry ; for had he beene his owne man , he could not possibly have failed so fowly , as to r●ckon the Angels and the Saints , and the very mother of God her selfe ( of whom these Fathers , specially Epiphanius , doe expressely speake ) in the number of those wicked persons , whom the Gentiles did take for their Gods .

PA.

Wee give Latrîa , or worship to God ; and Dulia , or service to the Saints .

PRO.

You give a higher worship to God , and a lesser to his Saints ; like that wanton Roman Dame , who thought to excuse her folly , by saying , y y Ioannes Rainaldus de Idololatria . Rom Eccl. lib. 1. cap. 1. num 13. ex Cicerone in oratione pro Caelio . she companied with Metellus as with a Husband , and with Clodius as with a Brother , whereas all was due to her husband onely ; so doe these spirituall wantons part stakes in Gods worship , whereas all religious worship is due to God alone .

Neither will this distinction salve the sore ; for the Scripture useth these terms without any such difference : z z Hebrai●um verbum , Ghabad , quod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 redditur apud Spetuaginta , Deut. 6.13 . in loco quem Christus ●itat , Mat● . 4.10 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : reddite 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 1 Sam. 4. vbi scriptum est in laud●m Israelitarum , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . for the word Latria , which you appropriate to Gods service , is applied to men , as in this place : you shall doe no servile worke , the word used is Latria , [ L●vit . 23.7 . ] the word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : so contrariwise , the word Dulia , is taken in Scripture for the proper service of God , as in this place , serving the Lord with all Humility , the word there used is Dulia ; so that this distinction is idle , since that Religious worship and service is all one .

PA.

We doe not invocate the Saints by Faith , as Authors of the benefits we crave .

PRO.

Your * * They pray dir●ctly , absolutely , and fin●lly to Sain●s , to give such and such gif●s & graces themselves ; and divers instances are given in this kinde by Bishop Andrews in his Answer to Card Pe●r●n's Reply . P●g 58.59 . &c. practice sheweth the contrary , for you pray to the Virgin Mary in these termes : a a O●fic . B. Mar. pij v. jussu edit . and the office of the Blessed Virgin according to the ●ef●rmed Latine a● S. Omers . 1621. Maria mater gratiae , Mater misericordiae ; Tu nos ab hoste protege , Et horâ mortis suscipe . Mary Mother of H●avens grace , Mother , where mercy hath chiefe place ; From cruel Foe , our soules defend , And them receive when life shall end .

The Crosse is likewise devou●ly saluted in this manner : b b Breviar . Roman . Sabbat. infrà Hebdom . 4. Quadrages . O Crux ave spes unica , Hoc passionis tempore ; Auge pijs justitiam , Re●sque dona veniam . All haile O Crosse , our onely hope , In this time of the passion ; Increase thou justice to the godly , And give to sinners pardon .

PA.

You have alleadged divers Fathers against praying to Saints , give me now leave to produce such testimonies as Bellarmine brings in c c Bellar. l. 1. de Sanct. Beatit . cap. 19. , for invocation of Saints .

PRO.

The learned Bishop● on our side , Bishop d d

Ad Cardinalis Bellarmini Apolog●●m Respons. cap 1 pag. 40 &c.

His Answer to the 20. Chap●er of Cardinall Perron's Reply .

Andrewes and Bishop Montague e e Master Rich: Montague now Bishop of Chichester his Treati●e of Invoc●t●on o● Saints . , have particularly examined the severall testimonies alleadged by Bellarmine , and found that hee hath utterly failed in his proofes .

PA.

Let us heare the Fathers themselves speake ; for their testimonies seeme to be cleere for us ; for instance sake . Nazianz●n rep●rts Viginem Mariam rog●●● , u● p●r●●li●ant● Vng●●● 〈…〉 . Gregor. Nazianz●n Or●t . in Cyprian . that Cyp●ian whiles hee was a Pagan , and a Conjurer , he fell in love with Iustina a Christian virgine at Antioch , whom , when as by wooing and ordinary meanes hee could not winne to his will , hee went about to intice and prevaile with by Magicall spells and conjurations ; which the Damosell perceiving , besought the Virgin Mary to succour her , being a distressed virgin .

PRO.

This goes under his name , but ( haply ) is none of his ; for it is not likely that Nazianzene ( one of so great learning , judgement , and memory ) could ( as Billius sp●akes g g Tam foedo errore prolapsum esse Billius in not . ad locum . ) be so grossely mistaken , to ascribe that unto Saint Cyprian Bishop of Carthage in Africke , that ( if it were at all ) was done by one Cyprian the Deacon of Antioch in Asia . But yet say it were Nazianzen's owne report , it being but a private act , out of the devout affection in a Mayd , it cannot bee drawne to a rule of Faith ; neither is it proposed as an example to bee followed , but onely by way of bare narration what shee did : the relater passeth not his owne censure upon it ; yea , but hee taxeth it not ; though hee did not , yet others , and ( by name ) Epiphanius in the same age taxed such of that sexe , as offered Cakes , and the like presents , and oblations to the blessed Virgin .

Lastly , the story saith , that despayring of all other remedies 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , shee flyeth to God , and then assumeth for her Patron and Protectour Christ Iesus her Spouse ; and after this : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , shee besought the Virgin Mary to succour her , being a distressed virgin . First , she flyeth to God ; secondly , shee maketh Christ her Patron ; thirdly , she requesteth the Virgin Mary ( in zeale rather than upon knowledge . ) And although Nazianzen ( speaking onely by hearesay ) reporteth that shee supplicated ( not by any Collect , or set forme of devotion , but by a short ejaculation ) to the Virgin Mary ; yet this was done by her in the last place , and after shee had first sought to God and Christ : Whereas , in their Romish devotions , our Lady hath their orizons first addressed to her ; and our Lord hath them but as it were at second hand , the reve●sion of th●m .

PA.

Gregory Nyssen cals to Theodore the Martyr , saying , F●●trum tuorum Martyrum ●oge chorum , & 〈◊〉 omnibus una depre●are . Greg Nyssen . ●●at . in S. Theodor. gather together the troopes of thy brother Martyrs , and thou with them joyntly , beseech God to stay the invasion of the Barbarous Gothes .

PRO.

Nyssen spake this in a Panegyricall oration , as an Oratour , not as a Divine , in a popular sermon of Commemoration , not in doctrinall determination .

In like sort Bellarmine objects Nazianzen in his orations calling unto Cyprian , Basil , and Athanasius , with a tu autem è supernis nos respice , i i Nazianzen . in orat . in Atha●as . doe thou favourably looke upon us from an high ; Whereas , this is no direct invocation , but rather a vote , wish and desire that Basil and Athanasius might doe so and so ; for it is not respice nos , but o si ; or Vtinam nos respicias , and so hee speakes of Basil , and now Basil is in the heavens offering as I thinke sacrifices for us , and praying for the people : hee comes with an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , as I take it , as I am perswaded ; it was but his opinion , and conjecture ; being indeed nothing but a Rhetoric●ll flourish .

The like answer may serve to that of Hierome , who concluding his Funerall Oration upon Paula , desireth her in heaven , to assist him with her prayers ; k k Vale ò Paula , & cult●ris tu● vl●imam ●ene●tutem orati●nibus ●uva . Hieron . in Epitaph . Paulae . the ●peech h●e useth is no more but a Rhetoricall Apostrophe or conversion to her . Besides , it is but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a wish ; and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , a direct prayer unto her .

In the like manner ●or proofe of prayer to Saints Bellarmine alleadgeth two Poets , Paulinus and Prudentius ; now wee answer him in his owne words , l l Nihil aliud di●o , nisi mor●●●ëtico ●usiss P●udentium . Bellar lib 2. de Pu●gat . cap. 18. §. Ad. who when Prudenti●s was alleadged against him in the point of Purgatory , hee puts it off , saying , Prudentius played the Poet , so say wee , that they spoke it in a poeticall vaine , as others in a straine of Rhetorike : Now in Poetrie , men take more libertie ; besides , their words serve them not at will , as they doe in prose : but they must often take such to make up their verse , as were otherwise inconvenient to bee used ; moreover , the heate of their invention carrieth them further oftentimes , then in a temperate speech , they would be carried .

PA.

Saint Ambrose exhorts widowes to pray to the Angels and Martyrs , m m Obsecrandi sunt Angeli , Martyres , speculatores vitae , actuumque nostrorum . Ambros. lib. de Viluis . whom hee calleth beholders of our lives and actions .

PRO.

Saint Ambrose was chosen from a secular Iudge , to bee Bishop of Millaine , and was faine to bee christned before hee could bee consecrated . Now this booke de Viduis , of widowes was written about the beginning of his christianitie and divinitie both : n n Bishop Andrews Answer to Ca●dinall Perron's R●ply , prooves this out of Baronius in the l●●e o● Saint Ambrose . and therefore it is not strange , if in his beginning and novice ship hee said some things , for which hee afterward● corrected himselfe ; of this sort is that which he hath in the booke alleadged , which shewes hee was a novice in divinitie , when hee wrote that booke de Viduis , for there hee doubts , whether the Martyrs had any sinnes or n● ; and then saith , o o Qui proprio sanguine , etiam si quae habuerunt , peccata laverunt . Amb● . de Vid. ●oco citato . That the sinnes they had , they did thems●lves wash away with their owne blood : Whereas the holy Scripture gives us no other L●ver for our sinnes than the blood of Iesus Christ , Who hath loved us , and washed us from our sinnes in his owne blood p p Apocal. 1.5 . . And againe , q q Apoc. 7.14 . & 1 Iohn 1. vers. 7. The Saints have washed their robes in the blood of the Lambe . Now the blood of Martyrs is not the blood of Christ : and therefore that speech was neither so safely , nor properly set downe . Besides , the words rea●h not home , it is onely his opinion , that the Saints and Ang●ls are our Patrons , Videmur , r r Quorum vide●ur n●bis quoddam corporis pignore patrocinium v●n●icare . Ambr. loc. citato● Wee seeme to have their pa●ronage , and yet it is but Patrocinium quoddam , a certaine kind of gardian ship .

But what Saint Ambrose's opinion was touching this point , no man can better tell than himselfe , who elsewhere saith s s Ad Deum autem promerendum , Suff●agatore non opus est , sed mente devotà . Ambros. in Rom. cap. 1. Tom. 5. That to procure Gods favour , wee need no spokesman but a devout mind : and againe , t t Sed tamen tu solu● Domine invocandu● es . Ambr. de obitu Theodosij . tom. 3. Thou onely O Lord oughtest to bee invocated and prayed unto .

Objection .

Saint Cyril of Hierusalem saith , u u Facimus mentionem etiam corum qui ante nos obdormierunt , ut Deus Orationibus aliorum , suscipiat preces nostras . Cyril . Catech. 5. mystag . That wee make mention of those that sleepe in the Lord before us , that by their Intercession God would receive our prayers . Thus he in his mystagogicall Catechismes .

Answer .

The learned x x Andr. Rivet . Critici sacri . lib. 3. cap. 8. & Rob. Coci censura Patrum pag. 118. doe thinke that Cyril of Hierusalem was not Author thereof , but one Iohn Bishop of Hierusalem , who lived about the yeare 767 , a great advocate of Images ; and indeed it may seeme so by some idle stuffe we find in them , as namely , where it is said , * * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Cyril Catech. 4. That the wood of the Crosse did increase and multiply in such sort , that the earth was full thereof .

But , be it Cyrils of Hierusalem , it makes not for the Romists . All he saith is this in effect ; he supposeth that those holy ones with God , doe continually pray unto God , which prayers he desires God would mercifully heare , and grant unto them , for the good of his servants here on earth .

Lastly , he sayth mentionem facimus ; and so did the ancients in their Commemorations , mention the Godly Saints deceased , and yet without any direct invoking of them . And so Saint Austin saith : y y Suo loco & ordine nominatur , sed non invocantur . Aug. lib. 22. de civit . Dei cap. 10 tom. 5. That the Martyrs were named at the Communion Table , but yet not invocated by the Priest . Saint Austin flatly opposeth invocantur , to nominantur ; nominantur , sed non invocantur , so that they might be nominated , and mentioned , ( as Cyril speakes ) and yet not at all invocated .

Objection .

Saint Hilary saith , z z Intercessione Angelor●●● indiget infirmitas nostra . Hilar. in Psal. 129. that by reason of our infirmitie , we stand in need of the intercession of Angels , and the like he hath upon the 124 Psalme . a a Hilar. in Psal. 124. Nec leve praesidium in Angeli● , qui Ecclesiam quadam custodiâ circumsep●●unt .

Answer .

Hilary speakes onely of Angelicall intercession : not a word touching invocation or intercession of Saints . And if any intercession be intended , it is that in generall for the whole Church .

In the other place upon the 124 Psalme , Hilary speaks neither of Saints praying for us , nor of praying to them , but sayth : That the Church hath no small ayde in the Apostles , Prophets , and Patriarkes , or rather in the Angels which hedge and compasse the Church round about with a certaine guard , the ayde therefore he meaneth , is the example and doctrine of b b Circuibat cum Sacerdotibus & populo omnium orationum loca , ante Martyrum & Apostolorum thec●● jacebat cilicio prostratu● , & auxilia sibi ●ida Sanctorum intercessione poscebat . Ruffin . lib. 2. hist cap. 33. the Saints departed , and the ministerie of the Angels .

Objection .

The Emperour Theodosius went in Procession with his Clergy and Laity , b b Circuibat cum Sacerdotibus & populo omnium orationum loca , ante Martyrum & Apostolorum thec●● jacebat cilicio prostratu● , & auxilia sibi ●ida Sanctorum intercessione poscebat . Ruffin . lib. 2. hist cap. 33. to the Oratories and Chappels , and lying prostrate before the Shrines and Monuments of the Apostles and Martyrs , he required ayde to himselfe by the faithfull intercession of the Saints .

Answer .

The Emperour did not invocate any Saint , or Saints at all ; onely upon that exigent of the rebellion of Eugenius and his complices , he repayres to the Shrines and Chappels of the Apostles , Martyrs , and other holy Saints ; there he made his prayers unto God in Christ , not unto them , desiring God to ayde him against his enemies , and the rather upon the prayers and intercession of the Saints on his behalfe ; now invocation followes not presently upon intercession . c c Theodosias Sanctorum invocator 〈…〉 ; ●liud enim est pos●●re à Sanctis auxilium , quo● 〈◊〉 invocare 〈◊〉 aliu● a Deo poscere , Sanctorum i●tercession● : ex inte●cessione non ●●●uitur invocatio . D●ct Andrew●s in Respons. ad B●l●●r . Apolog. cap. 1. P●g 45.

Reply .

Sozomen telleth us that the Emperour before he joyned battaile , he earnestly intreated to be assisted by Saint Iohn Baptist.

Rejoynder .

The learned Bishop , Bishop Mountague answereth , d d T●eatise of Inv●cation of 〈…〉 that the credit of this story may ●e questioned ; for Socrates and Th●odoret elder than Sozomen , have it not ; and Sozomen himselfe hath no greater warrant for i● then hea●e say ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the report is ; but who the Author was , wha● credit it was of , is not related . But supposing the truth of the story , Ruffinus hath the very forme of the Prayer which the Emperour made , e e Ruffinus quò sup●à and there is no mention therein of invocating either Saint or Ang●l . Socrates saith , f f Dei ●●plo●avit 〈…〉 S●●rat . hist. lib 6●● p. 4. that the Emperor implored Gods assistance , and had his desire ; Theodoret saith , g g De●m pr●cab●●ur . The●d ●●b . 5. ● p. ●4 . that the E●perour prayed to God ; so that the Emperour had repayre unto God alone , without any mediation at all . h h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sozom. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

I have consulted with the Originall , and there indeed I find that the Emperour being in Saint Iohn Baptist's Church which Theodosius hims●lfe had built , i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Pag. 102. edi● . Rob. Stephani . In Lat. editione Ruffin . l 7 cap. 24. He called to have Saint Iohn Baptist's assistance in the battaile ; he did not directly call upon S. Iohn Baptist , but he called upon God , that he would appoint the Baptist for to a●d him .

But be it that he called upon the Baptist indeed ; yet this was done in the second place , after he had first immediatly called upon God hims●lfe .

Objection .

Athanasius in his Sermon upon the Annunciation of bless●d Virgin , sayth to the Virgin Mary , k k In●lina aurem tuam [ Ma●ia ] in pre●es nostras● & ne ●blivi●caris populi tui — & in●rà , ad ●e clam●m●s — & in●ra — ●●t●rc●de Hera , & Domi●● & Regina , & mate● Dei pro nobis Athan● serm. in Evang. de s●nct . Deipara . se● A●nunciat . Incline thine cares to our prayers , and forget not thy people .

Answer .

Indeed this speakes home , but it is not the true Athan●sius , but some counterfeits bearing his name ; and this is confessed by the two Arch pillars of Poperie , Bellarmine and Baronius ; for howsoever Bellarmine , to make up his number , produce l l B●llar . lib. 1. de Sanct. B●at●t . cap. 19. Athan●sius for proofe of Saintly invocation ; yet the same B●llarmine when he is out of the heat of his controversies , and is not tied to maintaine ●he invocation of Saints , but treateth of other matters ; then , in his Catalogue of Ecclesiasticall wri●ers , he is of another judgement ; and saith m m Sermo de sanctissimà D●i●a●a , non vi●●tur esse S At●anasij , sed ●l●●ujus ●oste●ioris● qui nost sextum Co●cilium fl●ruerit . Bell●● . de Scriptor Eccles. ad ann. 304. in Athanasio . that this Sermon of Athanasius of the Annunciation of the blessed Virgin , seemeth not to be Athanasiusses , but some later write●s , who lived af●er the six●h generall Councel .

Baronius also is of the same judgement : n n B●ron . tom 1. Annal. ad ann. Ch●isti . 48. and indeed he that shall consider and w●i●h what the true Athanasius writes , to wit , o o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Athanas. to . 1. orat . 3. contr. Arrian . That God onely is to be worshipped : that the creature is not to fall downe and worship or supplicate the creature : nor p p Sanctos non à crea●o postulare , ut auxiliator s●● . At●anas . or t. 2 con . Arrian . pet. Nannio Interp. to make the Saints ( being but creatures , & no creators ) speciall helpers and opitulators : he ( I say ) that shall duely weigh these things , will easily conceive when he reads this Sermon of the Annunciation , that either Athanasius was not constant to his own doctrine ( which is not to bee imagined , or that this Homily alleadged is none of the true Athanasiusses , it is so farre different from his other doctrine .

Objection .

Bellarmine , for proofe of Saintly invocation , q q B●llar . de Sanct Beatit . lib. 1. cap. 19. alleadgeth a place out of Eusebius ; the testimonie speaketh thus , as there it standeth reported out of the thirteenth Booke , and seaventh Chapter of his Evangelicall Preparation : r r Verae pietatis milites , u● Dei amicos honoran●es , ad monument● quoque illorum accedimus , vot●que ipsis sacimus , tanquam viris sanctis . quoram intercessione ad Deum non parum juvari p●ofitemur . Euseb. lib 13 praep●rat . E●angel . cap 7. This we daily doe : we honour those heavenly Souldiers , as Gods friends , we approach unto their Monuments , and pray unto them , as unto Holy men , by whose intercession we professe our selves to be much holp●n .

Answer .

Eusebius speakes not of particular invocation for particular intercession : but of generall mediation of the Saints in heaven , who pray for Saints on earth in general , according to the nature of Communion of Saints , without any intercession used to them , or invocation of them , by that other moity of the Church Militant o● earth .

Secondly , Eusebiu● doth not enlarge his speech to all the Saints departed , but unto Martyrs onely , whom he calle●h Heavenly Souldiers . Now the case of Martyrs and other Saints is not equall : for in the opinion of the Ancients , that of Martyrs was fa●re above all other depa●ted with God ; as enjoying mo●e priviledge from God , with Christ in glory , by some specially enlarged dispensation , than they the other holy Saints did , as Saint Augustine s s Augustin . ●e cur● pr●mortuis . ca● 8. teacheth .

3. Thirdly , the place alleadged is taken out of a corrupt translation made by Trapezuntius , and afterwards followed by t t Ad M●numenta quoque●●lorum acce●●mus , votaque ipsi● sacim●● . Euseb. de P●aep●rat . Evangel. lib. 13 c●p . 7. Euseb. ope●a Io. Dadraei , Parisij● . 1581. Dadroeus a Doctour of Paris , who set forth Eusebius . Now Eusebius hath no such thing as is pretended ; his words in his owne language are these : u u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Eu●●b . 〈…〉 13. c● . 11. ex 〈…〉 ●●●phani . Lute● . 1544. It is our custome , to come to the Tombes and Monuments [ of the Martyrs ] and to make our prayers at , or bef●re those Shrines , or Tombes , and to honour those blessed soules . Pl●●saith they used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to present themse●ves at the Martyrs Tombes , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and to make their prayers , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at those 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those To●bes and Monuments ; he saith not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to these Martyrs , as Bellarmine would have it . It is onething to pray ad memorias Martyrum , before or neere the Sepulchers of ●he Martyrs , as anciently they were wont to doe : & another thing to say ( as our adversari●s doe ) that these Praye●s were made unto the Martyrs themselves : the truth is , they were made unto God to p●aise him for the assista●ce given unto the Martyrs , and to crave of God the like G●ace .

4. F●urthly , and lastly , Eusebius in the same treatise doth fully expre●se himselfe touching this matter , saying , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●useb ●b●d . lib. 4 c●p. 10. pag. 88. & 89 We are taught to worship God onely , and to honour those blessed Powers that are about him , with such honour as is fit and agreeable to their ●state and condition : and againe , x x 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid l 4. c. 21. p. 〈◊〉 . in edit● Ro. S●eph g●ae . l. ●●et . 1544. To God onely will we give the worship due un●o his name , and him onely doe we religiouslie worship and adore .

Object .

Saint Ephraim the Syrian y y 〈…〉 18. in 〈…〉 to . 3. p. 247. saith , Wee pray you O ye● bl●ssed Spirits , vouchsafe to make intercession to God for us miserable sinners .

Answer .

The z z D. Fulke in his Annot. in Rhem. Test. upon 2 Peter 1 15. Et Rob Co●● 〈◊〉 Scr●pt . Vet. p. 118. learned take exceptions at this Ephraim , as being a counterfeit , lately brought to light , and not set forth in his native language , but taught to speake in the Roman tongue : ●ut bee it that it is the true Saint Ephraem , yet hee saith nothing directly for praying to Saints : for it is but an Apostrophe in generall , which infe●reth no co●●lusion a● all , no● is it directed to any one peculiar Saint , b●t ●o the Saints i● gene●all . Now it is con●essed that they pray to God Pro nobis miseris peccatoribus ; and this their b●other-like aff●ction , and Saint-like performance , is an ●speciall pa●t of the Communion of Saints .

Besides , Ephraem ( take him as hee comm●th to our hands ) delivereth that which overthrowe●h Saintly Invocatio● ; for hee prayeth to God onely , without mentio●ing any Saint at all ; a a Nec in me quidquam bont reperio , quod in conspectu tuo memorari poss●t , nisi hoc solum , quod praeter te , aliam ignorem . S. Ephraem . sermon . p●g 65 tom. 1. yea hee saith expresly , That hee knoweth no other save God , to whom hee should present his prayers ; and yet more fully b b Idem ibid. pag. 269. edit. Vossian●e . saying ; Tibi soli redemptori supplico , To thee only my Saviour and Redeemer I make my prayer and supplication . And thus speakes Ephraem when once he is out of his p●osopopeiaes , and Rhetoricall compellations , his pa●egy●icks , and commendatorie orations of the Saints .

Of Iustification by Faith onely .

Concerning Iustification by Faith onely , Saint Ambrose ( or some of the same standing with Ambrose ) c c Author Commentariorum in Epistola● Pauli , aeq●alis , si●e dubio Ambrosij fuit . Bellar. lib. 4. de Iustif. cap. 8. is cleare and plentifull throughout his Commentaries on Saint Pauls Epistles .

Sol● fide justi●icati sunt dono Dei . Id. in 3 ad Rom. Et impius per solam fidem justificatur apud Deum . Id in 4. Rom. They are justified by faith alone , by the gift of God ; yea , hee farther saith , g g Nullum opus dici● legis sed solam f●d●m dand●m in caus● 〈◊〉 Id in c. 10 No worke of the Law , but onely faith is to bee given in Christ's cause . Saint Hilarie saith , h h Fides enim sola justificat . Hilar Comment. in Math. canon● 8. That which the Law could not unloose , is remitted by Christ , for faith alone justifieth . Saint Basil saith , i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Basil Homil. 22. de Humilitate . to● 1. That it is true and perfect rejoycing in the Lord , when a man is not puffed up with his owne righteousnesse , but acknowledgeth his want thereof , yet r●joyceth that hee is justified by faith alone in Christ .

By this that hath beene said , it appeareth , that when wee say , Faith onely justifieth , wee have not departed from the doctrine of the ancient Fathers in this point of Iustification .

Of Merit .

Concerning Merit , Saint Ambrose saith , k k Nam ●●de mihi tan●um meriti , cui indulgentia pro coron● est Amb●os . in 〈…〉 virg. ●om. 1. Whence should I have so great merit , seeing mercy is my crowne ? and againe , l l Q●●d p●ssums dignum praemis● 〈…〉 Dei● 〈◊〉 d●cretorum in homines 〈◊〉 procedit . Amb●os . in P●●m . 11● . serm 20 to● What can wee doe worthy of the heavenly rewards ? the s●ff●ring● of this time are u●worthy for the glory t●●t is to come : therefore the forme of heav●nly Decrees doth proceed with men , not according to our me●its , but according to Gods mercy .

Basil saith , m m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Basi● . in Psal. 114. 〈◊〉 . 1. Everlasting rest is layd up for them that strive lawfully in this life ; not to bee rendred according to the d●bt of workes , but exhibited by the grace of the bountifull God to them that trust in him .

Macarius the Aegyptian Hermite , touching the gift which Christians shall inherit , averreth ; n n Si qu●● ex quo creat●s est Ala● ad con●umm●tion●m usque mundi cer●●●●● 〈◊〉 Satan●m , & 〈◊〉 e●●lictiones , 〈…〉 it perag●●et , 〈…〉 ad●pturus . M●●ar homil 15 in●erpre●e Ioanne P●●● , in Bibl. S. Patr. tom. 2. edit. 2. pag. 353. ed●● . ●ute●ae , per M●●g 〈…〉 158● . That this a man may rightly say , that if any one from the time wherein Adam was created unto the very end of the world did fight against Satan , and undergoe afflictions ; hee should doe no great matter in respect of the glory that hee shall inherit ; for he● shall reigne together with Christ world without end .

PA.

You produced Saint Cyril of Hierusalem , as if he should witnesse for you , whereas hee is ours ; and your Mr. Cooke tell●th us o o Censina S●r●p●o●um Peterum . pag. 117. that Bellarmine often alleadgeth him on our behalfe .

PRO.

The learned make question whether Cyril , or Iohn B. of Hierusalem were the Author of those Catechismes ; and surely in some part thereof there bee divers things unworthy of that ancient and learned Cyril , who is the more to be beloved of the Orthodoxe , as he was greatly hated of the A●rians ; yet even in these Catechismes ( take them as they come to our hands ) Master Rivet , a learned , and judicious Divine , finds many testimonies p p And● . Ri●et Crit. 〈◊〉 l. 3 cap 9. & 10. that make for us , and against the Papists : For instance sake , Cyril in his Catechisme , having numbred all the bookes of the old Testament omitteth all those that are controverted ; and saith , q q Cyril . Hierosol . Catech. 4. Peruse the two and twenty bookes , but meddle not with the Apocrypha ; meditate diligently upon those Scriptures , which the Church doth confidently read , and use no other : Hee saith , r r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Catech. 4. That the safetie and preservation of faith consists not in the eloquence of words , but in the proofe of divine Scripture . The same Cyril saith , s s Cyril Catechesi Mystagogicà 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Receive the body of Christ with a hallow hand , saying Amen , and after the partaking of the body of Christ , come also to the cup of the Lord. The same Cyril saith , t t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Cyril . Catech. Mystag. 4. that the words [ my Body ] were Spoken of the bread . Christ thus avoucheth and saith of the Bread , this is my Body . He resembleth the consecrated oyle wherewith their foreheads were annoynted , to the consecrated bread in the Eucharist . Looke ( saith he , u u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Idem . Catech. Mystag. 3. Thou doe not thinke it to be onely bare and simple oyle , for even as the consecrated bread after prayer and invocation is no more common bread , but Christs body ; so the holy oyle is no more bare and simple oyle , or common , but Charisma the gift of Grace : whence ( as Master Rivet saith ) x x Andr. Rivet . Critici sacri . lib. 3. cap. 10. wee may thus argue as is the change in the oyle , such there is in the Eucharist ; but in the oyle there is no change in substance , but use , and sanctification by grace ; and therefore there is no substantiall change or conversion in the Elements of bread and wine when they become the body and blood of Christ .

Objection .

Saint Cyril saith , y y Cyril . Catech. Mystag . cap. 4. Know you for a surety , that the bread which is seene of us is not bread , though the taste find it to bee bread , but the body of Christ : insomuch as Bellarmine upon this testimonie saith , z z Bellar. lib. 2. de Euchar . cap. 13. §. Quarto . Quid clariùs dici potest ? What can be said more plainely ?

Answer .

Cyril saith ; The bread which is seene of us is not bread , and the same Cyril saith a a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Cyril Catech. 3. of the Water in Baptisme , it is not simple water , let the one satisfie the other . Cyril saith of the bread , as hee doth of the oyle ; that it is no bare , simple , or common oyle ; but Charisma , the type , and symboll of a spirituall gift ; and so hee meant of the bread , the Consecrated bread ; that it is no ordinary or common bread , but of different use and serv●ce , and yet the●ein not any change of substance at all . Neither doth Cyril say as Bellarmine corrup●ly tra●slateth it , or at le●st m●kes use of a corrupt tr●nslation , b b Sub 〈…〉 datur 〈…〉 Eu●h●r . 〈◊〉 . 3 § 〈◊〉 That the body of C●rist is given Sub sp●cie pan●s , Vnder the forme of bread ; but ( as it ●s in the Greeke ) c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Cy●●l . 〈◊〉 . 4 Vnder the type of bread ; even as hee saith afterwards , d d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id 〈◊〉 . 5. Thinke not t●at you taste bread , but t●e Antitype of Christs body ; so that hee calleth the cons●crated bread and wine , ●ypes , and Antitypes , that is signes of the body and bloo● of Christ . Now where●s Cyril would not have us judge of th●s Sacrament by our taste or sense ; it i● true ; that as the Bread and Wine are ●ound and whi●e , a●d sweet in taste , our bodily senses m●y indeed perceive th●m ; but as they are types , and A●titypes , that is , sign●s Of the body and blood ●f Christ , so ●hey a●e spi●itually to bee discern●d , with our understanding onely ; as the Reverend and learned D●ctor Morton , Lo. Bishop of Coventry and Lichfi●ld , and now Lord Bishop of Dur●sme , hath observed B. Mo●ton 〈…〉 . Book 3. ●h●p . 4 〈◊〉 4. . Lastly the same Cyril saith , f f That wee have r●pentance , and remission of sinnes , confined onely to the terme of th●s pr●s●nt life : More might be alleadged out of the same ●y●il , but these may su●fice to shew what hee in his Ca●echismes taught his schollers , touching the Scriptur●s s●ffic●encie , a●d Ca●on , Communion in both kinds , the Eucha●ist and Purgatory .

Before I clo●e up this Centurie , I must needs speake of Constantin● the Great , and the two generall Councel● held in this Age.

In ●his age flourished the honour of our nation , that Christian P●ince Constantine the Great , borne of our co●n●rey woman H●l●na ; both of them Britaines by bi●th● Roy●ll by descent , Saints by esti●ation , and true Catholikes by profession .

PA.

Do●tor 〈◊〉 and Master Brerely show them to have b●●n● o● g g 〈…〉 .

PRO.

Our reverend and learned Doctor , Doctor Abbot , late Bish●p of Salisbury , hath sufficiently confuted your Bishop , and acquitted them from being Papists ; since they held not the grounds of Popery , as at this day , they are maintayned .

PA.

If constantine were no Papist , of what faith t●en was hee ?

PRO.

Hee was of the true , ancient , Christian Faith , as may appeare by these instances following .

Hee held the Scriptures sufficient for deciding matte●s of Faith , and accordingly prescribed this rule to the Nicene Councell , saying , h h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●heodor . E●cl●s Hist li. 1. cap. 7. Because the Apostles Bookes doe plainely instruct us in divine matters ; therefore we ought to make our Determinations upon Questions , from words which are so divinely inspired : he saith not that the Scriptures plainely teach us what to thinke of the nature and substance of God ( as Bellarmine would i i Bellar lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 11. wrest it ) but also of the holy Law , and things concerning Religion ; for so doe the words sound in the originall k k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●h●od . quò supra . ; and herein ( saith Theodoret ) l l Theod. quò suprà . the greater part of the Councell obeyed the voyce of Constantine . Constantine held it not the Pop●s peculiar to summon generall Coun●●lls ; for hee called the Councell of Nice himselfe m m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theod. lib. 1. cap 7. , and therein sate as President and m●deratour , receiving every mans opinion , helping sometimes one part , sometimes another , n n Eus●b de vit● Constantini● lib. 3. cap. 13. reconciling them when they were at ods , untill hee brought them to an agreement in the Faith .

The same E●perour by his roy●ll Letters o o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. li. 3. c 23. Prescribed to the Bishops such things as belonged to th● good of Gods Church ; yea hee held himselfe to bee a Iu●ge and supreme Governour in Causes Ecclesiasticall : for hee professeth ( speaking generally of all so●t● of men ) if any shall rashly or undadvisedly maintaine these pestilent assertions ( meaning the Arrians ) p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theod. l. 1. cap. 1● . His saucinesse shall be● instantly curbed by the Emperours ex●cution , who is Gods Ministers . Moreover Constantine never sought to the Pope for pardon , hee never worshipped an Image , never served Saint nor Shrine , never knew the Masse , Transubstantiation , nor the halfe Communion : hee prayed not for his Fathers soule at the performance of his Funeralls , q q 〈◊〉 de vi●a C●nstan lib. 1 ●ap. 16. used no Requiems nor Diriges at his Exequies ; he wished not any prayers to bee made after his death for his owne soule ; but having received Baptisme newly before his death , professed a stedfast hope that needed no such after-prayers , saying ; r r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id ibid. l. 4. c. 63. Now I know indeed that I am a blessed man , that God hath accounted mee worthy of immortall life , and that I am now made partaker of the light of God . And when they that stood about him wished him longer life , hee answe●ed , s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. I●id . gr●●dit Rob. S●ep●●ni Lutetiae an. 1544. That hee had now attayned the true life , and that none but himselfe did understand of what happinesse he was made partaker , and that he therfore hastned his going to his God . Thus Constantine dyed outright a Protestan● , hee craved no after-prayers for his soule , hee dreaded no Purgatory , but dyed in full assurance of going immediately to his God . Was this Prince now a Trent papist ?

Now to proceed ; the fi●st Generall Councell in Christianitie , after the Synod of the Apostles , was that famous fi●st Councell of Nice , consisti●g of 318. Bishops , the greatest lights that the Christian world then had ; it was called about 325 yeares after Christ , against Arrius , that denyed Christ to bee ve●y God ; from this Councell wee had o●r Nicen Creed , it was summoned not by the th●n Bishop of Rome , but by the Emperour Constantine , Gathering th●m together out of divers Cities and Provinces , as thems●lves have l●f●●ccorded t t : Wee produce the sixth Canon of this Councell , against the Popes monarchicall Iurisdiction ; the ●enour thereof is this : u u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Con●il . Ni●●n . 1. 〈…〉 6 ●ag . ●8● ex edit . Tilij Pa●●s . 1●●0 . Let ancient customes hold , that the Bishops of Alexandria should have the government over Aegypt , Lybia , and Pentapolis , because also the Bishop of Rome hath the same custome ; as also let Antioch and other Provinces hold their ancient priviledges : Now these words of the Canon thus limiting and distinguishing the severall Provinces , and grounding on the custome of the Bishop of Rome , that as hee had preheminence of all the Bishops about him , so Alexandria and Antioch should have alL about them , as likewise every Metropolitane within his owne Province : these words ( I say ) doe cleerely sh●w , that before the Nicene Councell , the Pope neither had preheminence of all through the world ( as now hee claymeth to bee an universall Bishop ) nor ought to have greater preheminence ( by their judgement ) than he had before time , this being the effect of the Canon , to wit , That the Bishop of Alexandria shall have authority over his Diocesses , as the Bishop of Rome over his .

PA.

Bellarmine saith , x x Sensus est , quià ità Pontifex Romanus consuevit permittere . Bellar. lib. 2. de Pont. cap. 13. §. Quarta . the meaning of the Canon is , that the Bishop of Alexandria should have the Provinces there mentioned , because the Bishop of Rome was accustomed to permit it so to bee .

PRO.

The words of the Canon are , Because the Church of Rome hath the like custome , here is not one word of permission . They bee indeed ( as learned Bishop Morton saith y y The Grand Imposture of the ( now ) Church of Rome , by the Bishop of Coventrie and Lichfield . Chap. 8. sect. 2 ) words of comparison ; that the Bishop of Alexandria should injoy his priviledges accordingly as the Bishop of Rome held ancien●ly his : as if one should say , I will give this man a crowne , b●cause also I gave a crown to his fellow .

Besides , Cardinal Cusanus understandeth the Canon as we doe , in this sort ; z z [ Quoniam parilis mos est ] id est , sicut Romanus habet omnium suorum Episcoporum potestatem ; ita & Alex●ndrinus ex more habet per Aegyp●um● &c. Card. Cusan . concord . Cathol. l. 2. c. 12 As the Bishop of Rome had power and authority over all his Bishops , so the Bishop of Alexandria , according to custome , should have thorowout Lybia , and the rest .

Here by the way , the reader may observe , that though the Pope should have a large circuit for his Diocesse , yet was n●t this Iurisdiction given him , by the Law of Go● , but by the custome of men . Let old cust●mes b● k●pt s●ith the Councel : he●e was no ordinance of Christ , acknowledged , no Text of Scripture alleadged for it , as now a day●s ; Tu es Petrus , and pasce oves , and tibi da●o claves ; Thou art Peter , f●ed my sheepe , and unto thee will I give the Keyes of the Church . The P●p● held it not then , as it is now pre●ended , a a 〈◊〉 2. de Pont cap. 12. Iure Divino● by divine ordinance , but onely by use and custome which may be altered , and was upon occasion ; for when Constantinople became the Imperiall City , then was the Bishop thereof equalled with Rome as appearet● by the Chalcedon Councel .

About the yeare 381 the second Generall Councel , was held at Constantinople , against Macedomus , who denyed the Divinity of the Holy Ghost ; ●t consisted of an hundred and fifty Bishops ; it was called not by the Pope , but by the Emperour Theodosius the elder . b b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Socrat lib. 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cap. 8.

This Councel confirmed the foresaid sixt Canon of the Nicen , which bounded the Bishop of Rome ( as well as other Bishops ) within the precincts of his owne Province . The third Canon of this Councel of Constantinople speakes in this tenour : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Synod . Occumen 2. can. 3. p●● 306. edit. Tilij G●aece . That the Bishop of Constantines City , that is , Constantinople hath P●erogatives of honour next after the Bishop of Rome , because it is new Rome .

THE FIFTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 400. to 500.
PAPIST .

WHat say you of this fifth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

We are yet within the compasse of the first 500 yeeres next after Christ , and so neerer to the time and truth of the Prim●tive Chu●ch : now for this present Age , it may for choice of Learned men , be compared to the Golden Age , for now flourished the Golden mouthed Chrysostome , * * nommatur●●●●them ●●●them . de Sc●●ptor . Ecclesiast. the Well languaged Hierome and Saint Austin the very Mall and Hammer of Heretikes .

Chrisostome was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the most copious writer of any of the Greeke Fathers now extant ; he was an eloquent Preacher , full of Rhetoricall figures , and amplifications ; so that his veine and gift lay rather in the Ethique and Moral part of divinity , a a In Ethicis plus exc●ll●t● quam in Didasia 〈◊〉 & Ex●geticis● Dan Toll●n● in Synopsi de legendis Pa●●ibus . working upon the affections , than in the doctrinal and exegetical part , for information of judgement . By his liberty of speech in Pulpit , he drew the hatred of th● great ones of the 〈◊〉 , and of the Emperour hims●lfe , but above all , of the Empresse Eudoxia , upon his head : so that she , and Theophilus , Patria●ke of Alexandria procu●ed his deposition and banishment , with commandment to ●●●●ney his weak● body with excessive Travels from place to place , untill he concluded his life , b b Sozo●en . lib. 8. cap. ui● . hist. Eccles. about the yeare foure hundred and eleven . c c In ●xlio ponti m●●itur , Anno 411. T●it●em . de Scrip Eccl●s .

Hierome was borne in Dalmatia , and instructed at Rome . He travailed abroad into France , and other places , of pu●pose to increase his knowledge , at Rome hee acquainted himselfe with Honourable women , such as Marcella , Sophronia , Principia , Paula , and Eustochium , to whom he expounded places of holy Scripture , for hee was admitted Presbiter ; he served Damasus Bishop of Rome in sorting his Papers ; his gifts were envied at Rome , therefore he l●ft Rome , and tooke his voyage towards Palestina : by the way he acquainted himselfe with Epiphanius , Nazianzen , and Didymus Doctor in the Schoole of Alexandria , and sundry other men of note and marke . In the end he came to Iudea , and made choice of Bethlem the place of the Lords Nativity to bee the place of his death . At Bethlem , Paula a noblewoman ( who accompanied Hierome , and his brother Paulinianus from Rome ) upon her owne charges builded foure Monasteries , whereof her selfe guided one , and Hi●rome another . Hierome was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 well skilled in the tongues ; but he wa● a man of a Chollericke and sterne disposition , more inclinable to a solitary and Monkish li●e , then to f●llowship and societie : neither Heliodorus in the wildernes , nor Ruffinus out of the wildernes , could keep inviolable friendship with him , hee flourished about the yeare 390. but he lived unto the yeare 422 , d d Hier●n●mu● mo●it●r 〈…〉 & Theod 〈…〉 . T●●them i●●d● & therfore we place him in this fifth Age , and so doth Bellarmine . 〈◊〉 lib 2 de Euc●●rist●● , cap. ●3 .

Augustine in his younger yeares was infected with the errour of the Manichees ; his mother Monica prayed to God for his conv●rsion , and God heard her pra●ers ; fo● by the p●eac●ing of Ambrose , bish●p of Millaine , an● by reading the life of Antonius the Heremite , hee was wonderf●lly moved , and beganne to disl●ke his former conversation . He went into a quiet Garden acco●panied with Alipius , and there as he was with teares bewayling his former course , and desi●ing Gods grace for working his c●nversion , hee heard a voice sa●i●g unto him , f f Augustin . 〈◊〉 lib. 8. cap. 12. Tolle & lege , and againe , Tolle & lege , that is to say , Take up and reade , Take up and reade : at the first hearing , hee thought it to bee the voyce of boyes or maydes speaking in their play such words one to another : but when hee looked about , and could see nobody , he knew it to bee some heavenly admonition , warning him to take up the booke of holy Scripture ( which he had in the Garden with him ) and read . Now the first place that fell in his hands , after the opening of the booke , was this : g g Rom. 13. vers. 13 14 Not in gluttony and drunkennesse , neither in chambering and wantonnesse , nor in strife and envying● but put yee on t●e Lord Iesus Christ , and take no thought for the flesh to fulfill the lusts of it . At the reading whereof , hee was so fully resolved to forsake the vanities of the world , and to become a Christian , that immediately thereafter hee was babtized by Saint Ambrose , with his companion Alipius , and his sonne Adeodatus . Hee was afterwards made bishop of Hippo in Africa . Hee defended the truth against the Manichees , Pelagians , Donatists , and whatsoever errour else prevail●d in this age . Hee is to bee commended , in that hee revised his owne Writings , and wrote his retractations , or r●cognitions . When he had lived 76 yeares , hee re●●ed from his labours , before the Vandales had taken the towne of Hippo which in the time of Augustines sickenesse they had besieged : and thus was hee translated , and taken away , before hee saw the evill that came upon the place . h h Isai. 57.1 .

Besides these learned Trium virs , there lived in this age Theodoret bishop of Cyrus a towne in Syria , Cyrill bishop of Alexandria , Leo the great and Gelasius bishops of Rome , Vincentius Lirinensis a great impugner of Heresies , as also Sedulius of Scotland i i Sedulius Presbiter , natione Scotus , claruit Anno 430. Trith●m . de Script . eccles. , whose Collections are extant upon Saint Pauls Epistl●s , k k Sedulij Scoti Hi●erniensis , in omnes Epistolas ●auli Collectane● excus . Basil. 1528. and his testimonies frequently cited by the learned L. Primate Doctour Vsher in his Tr●atise of the ancient Irish Religion .

O● the Sc●iptures sufficiencie .

Saint Augustine saith , l l In 〈◊〉 qu● aper●è 〈…〉 . Aug de Doct●●n . 〈◊〉 li. 2 c 9 tom. 3. In those things which are layd downe plainely in the Scriptures , all those things are found , which appertaine to faith and direction of life .

Bellarmine would shift off this place by saying , m m Loquitur de ill● 〈◊〉 quae necessa●ia sunt omnibus simplici●●● , qu●●lia sunt quae habentur in Symbolo Ap●●tolico , & D●●alogo . Bellar. lib. 4. de Ve●bo D●i non sc●●pto . ●●p 11. §. ultimo . That Austine meant , that in Scripture are contayned all such points as are simply necessary for all , to wit , the Creed , and the Commandements ; but beside these , other things necessary for Bishops and Pastors n n 〈…〉 I● . ibid. § 〈◊〉 . were delivered by tradition : but this stands not with Austines drift , for in the Treatise alleadged de Doctrin● Christianâ , hee purposely instructeth not the people , but Christian Doctors and Teachers ; so that where he saith , In the Scriptures are plainely set downe all things which containe Faith , Hope , and Charity , he meaneth ( as elsewhere o o Aug. de 〈◊〉 Christ . lib. 1. cap. 1. & lib. 4 ●a● . 4. hee expresseth himselfe ) all things which are necessarily to bee believed , or done , not onely of the Lay people , but even of Ecclesiastickes . In like sort the same father saith ; p p Those things which seemed sufficient to the salvation of believers , were chosen to bee written .

Vincentius Lirinensis saith , that the Canon or Rule of Scripture is perfect , abundantly sufficent in it selfe for all things , yea more than sufficient ; neither is this a false supposall , as a Iesuit pretends it to be , r r but a grounded truth , and the Authors doctrine : Li●inensis indeed maketh first one generall sufficient Rule for all things , the sacred Scriptures ; Secondly another , usefull in some cases onely , yet never to be used in those cases without Scriptures , which is , the Tradition of the Vniversall Church , and generall consent of Fathers . The first was used by the ancient Church from the worth that is in it selfe ; the other is used to avoyd the jarring interpretations of perv●rse Heretike● that many times abuse the sacred Rule & Standard of the Scripture . Now we admit the Churches Interpretation , as ministeriall to holy Scripture , so it be conformable thereunto . And wee say with the learned Rejoynder to the Iesuit Malounes Reply : s s Rejoynder to the Iesuits Reply , sect. 5. pa. 1●0 . Bring us now one Scripture expounded ( according to Lirinensis his Rule t t Quod ubique quod semper , quod ab ominibus creditum est . Lirin . ) by the Vniversall consent of the Primitive Church , to prove Prayer to Saints , Image worship in your sense , and we will receive it .

Saint Cyril saith , u u Non omnia quae Dominus fecit conscripta sunt , sed quae scriben●●s tam ad mores , quam ad dogmata putarunt sufficere . Cyril . Alexand. tom. 1. lib. 12. in Iohan. cap. ult. that All things which Christ did are not written , but so much as holy writers judged sufficient both for good manners and Godly faith . And in another place he saith , x x Sufficit divina Scriptura ad faciendum eos qui in illà educati sunt sapientes et probatissimos et sufficientissi●am habentes intelligentiam . Cyril . tom. 1 lib. 7. cont. Iulian. pa. 159. The holy Scripture is sufficient to make them which are brought u● in it wise , and most approved , and furnished with most sufficient understanding .

Saint Hierome reasoneth Negatively from the Scriptures , saying : y y Vt haec quae scripta sunt non negamus , it●●a quae non sunt scripta renuimus . Natum Deum esse de virgi●e credimus , quia legimus : Mari●m nupsisse post partum non credimus , qula non legimus . Hieron . tom. 2. advers. Helvid . As we deny not those things that are written , so we refuse those things that are not written ; That God was borne of a Virgin we believe , because we reade it ; That Mary did marry after shee was delivered we beleeve not , because we reade it not .

Saint Chrysostome saith , z z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Chrysost. in 2. epist. ad Thess. tom. 4. edit. Savilij p●g. 234. that All those things that are in holy writ are right and cleere : that , Whatsoever is necessarie , is manifest therein ; yea , he calleth the a a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Hom. 13. in 2. ep. ad Cor. To. 3. edit. Savilij . pag. 624. Scripture , The most exact Balance , Square , and Rule of Divine veritie .

This was the Fathers Rule of Faith of old , and the same a perfect one ; but the Papists now adayes make it but a part of a Rule , b b Regula Fidei , non totalis , sed partiali● Bellar. lib. 4. de verbo non scripto . cap. 12. §. Dico . halfe a Rule ; and piece it with Tradition .

Of the Scripture Canon .

Saint Hierome , who was well skilled in the tongues , travailed much , and saw the choycest Monuments of Antiquitie , as also the best Libraries that the Easterne Parts could afford , and was therefore likely to meete with the best Canon , nameth all the Bookes which we admit , and afterwards addeth : c c Hic Prologu● Scripturarum quasi Galeatum principium omnibus libris quos de Hebraeo vertimus in Latinum convenire potest , ut scire valeamus qui●quid extra hos est inter Apocrypha esse ponendum ; igitur Sapientia quae ●ulgo Salomo●is inscribitur , & Iesu ●ilij Syrach liber , & Iudith , & Tubias , & Pastor 〈◊〉 sunt in Canone . Hieron . Tom. ● . prae●at . in libr. Regum . Whatsoever is besides these , is to be put amongst the Apocrypha ; and that therfore the Booke of Wisedome , of Iesus the Sonne of Syrach , of Iudith , Tobias , and Pastor , are not in the Canon .

The same Hierome having mentioned the Booke of Wisedome , and Ecclesiasticus , and delivered his opinion , that it is untruly called the Wisedome of Salomon , and attributed to him , then addeth : d d . That as the Church readeth Iudith , Tobias , and the Maccabees , but receiveth them not ●or Canonicall Scriptures ; so these two Bookes , ( ●amely ) the Wisedome of Sal●mon , and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach , doth the Church reade for the edification of the p●ople , not to confirme the authority of any doctrine in the Church .

Objection .

The Carthaginian Councel received those Books which you account 〈◊〉 ●arthag te●tium Can 47. Apocryphall .

Answer .

They received them in Canonem Morum , not in Canonem Fidei . It is true ind●ed that Saint Austine , and the African Bishops of his time , and some other in that Age , finding these Bookes which Hierome and others rej●ct as Apocryphall , to be joyned with the other , and together read with them in the Church , seeme to account them to be Canonicall ; but they received them onely into the Ecclesiasticke Canon f f Ho● 〈◊〉 [ Maccab●●●um ] non Iul●i sed 〈◊〉 Can●nicis hab●t Aug. de Civit Dei . lib. ●8 . cap. 36. tom 5. & de M●●abil . S. ●cripturae . li. 2. cap. 34. tom 3. serving for Example of life , and instruction of manners : and not into any part of the Rule of Faith , or Divine Canon , as Saint Austine speaking of the Bookes of the Maccabees distinguisheth , saying : g g Quo●um supputatio t●mp●rum , non in Sc●ipturu sanctis , quae Cano●●cae app●lla●tu● , ●ed in alijs invenitur , in quibus sunt M●ccabaeorum L●b . ● Aug de C●vit . D●● . lib. 18 c. 36 This reckoning is not found in the Canonicall Scriptures , but in other Bookes , as in the Maccabees ; plainely distinguishing betweene the Canonicall Scriptures , and the Bookes of the Maccabees : Wherein , ( saith he h h In 〈◊〉 libr●● , et si aliqui● mi●abilium numero in●erendum i●veniatur , de ho● tamen null● cur●●a●iga●imur , quia tintum ag●r● pr●posui●us● ut d● divi●i C●●on●● mirab●l●bus exp●sition●m t●●ge 〈◊〉 . August . de Mirabil . S. Scr●ptu●ae lib. 2. cap. 34. ) There may be something found worthy to be joyned with the number of those miracles ; yet hereof will we have no care , for that we intend the miracles , Divini Canonis , which are received in the Divine Canon .

Of the booke of Iudith he tels us , i i L●br●m Iu●●th , in Canone S●●iptur●rum Iudei non 〈◊〉 dicunt●r . Aug. d. Civitat . Dei . lib. 18 c●p . ●● . The Iewes never received it into the Canon of Scriptures ; and withall there he professeth , That the Canon of the ●ewes was most Authenticall .

Touching the bookes of Wisedome , and Ecclesiasticus , he tels us , k k Sapientia & Ecclesiasticus , propter eloquij nonnullam similitudinem , ut Salomonis dicatur , obtinuit consuetudo , non autem esse ipsius dubitant doctiores . Id. ibid. lib. 17. cap. 20. that , They were called Salomons , onely for some lik●n●sse of Stile , but the Learned doubt whether they b●e his .

Lastly , the Councel of Carthage , whereat Saint Austine was present , Prescribing that no bookes should be read in the Church as Canonicall , but such as indeed are Canonicall , leaveth out the booke of Maccabees , as it appeareth by the Greeke Edition , l l Synod . Carthag . apud Balsam . in editione Ioh. Tilij . though they have shuffled them into the Latine ; m m Caranza in summ● Concil. & Codex Cano●● vetus Ecclesi● Romanae . which argueth suspicion of a forged Canon .

Now to this ancient evidence of Hierome , and Austine , the Papists make but a poore Reply . Canus saith , n n Hieronymus non est regula fidei — nondum eares satis erat explorata . Canus loc. Theol. li 2. ca. 11. that Hierome is no rule of Faith ; and that the matter was not then sufficiently sifièd : Bellarmine saith , o o Adm●tto Hieronymum in eâ ●uisse opinione , qu●a nondum generale Concilium de hi● libris aliquid statuerat . Bellar. de ve●bo Dei li. 1. ca. 10. § Respondeo . I admit that Hierome was of that opinion , because as yet a Generall Councel had decreed nothing touching those bookes ; and Saint Austin might likewise doubt thereof ; so that by Bellarmines confession , Hierome , and Austine , in this point are ours .

Of Communion under both kinds .

Saint Chrysostome sai●h , p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Chrys●st . sup 2. Co●● Homil. 18. tom. 3. edit. Savilij pag. 645. that whereas Vnder the Law , there was a difference betweene Priests and Laicks in communicating of victim●s ; In the n●w it is otherwise ; for one body and one Cup is ministred to all .

Hierom saith q q Sacerdotes qui Eucharistiae serviunt , & sanguinem Domini populis ejus dividunt . Hieron s●p . Sophon cap 3. tom 6. that the Pastors administred the Eucharist , and distributed the bloud of our Lord to his people ; the same Hierome report●th how Exuperius Bishop of Tholouse in France was wont to carry the Communion to perso●s absent . There was no man ( saith he ) r r Nihil illo d●tius qui corpus Domini can●stro vimineo , sanguin●m po tat in vitro . Hieron Epist. ad Rusticum . tom. 1. richer than Exuperius , who carried the Lords body in a Wicker basket , and his bloud in a Glasse . It is true indeed that the Bishop sold the Church●Plate for the reliefe of the poore ; s s Avaritiam eje●i● è t●mplo Hier ibid. — sac●o vasa erogavit in usum pauperum E●asm . in loc. Hiero●ymi . so that he was driven to use Osier baskets , and Glasse-cups ; but withall the story saith , he carried the consecrated bread and wine severally and apart , and not by way of Concomitancie .

Besides that , the wine might be carried abroad in a viall , to sicke persons , without any such danger of spilling , as the I. F. Rejoynder to D. Whites Reply , 7. point . Iesuit dreames on .

Saint Austine saith , u u Non solum nem● p●ohibetur , sed ad bibendum poti●s omn●s exhortantur , qui vo●un●●●bere vi●●m Aug. to . 4● qu. 57 sup Levit. Sang●●● Abe . sig●●●ic●t sanguine● Ch●isti , qu●●niv●●sa ec●les●● acce●t● di●it Amen . Id. ●bid . qu. 49 All that would have life are exh●●ted to drinke of the bloud ; and , that The whole Church having received the Cup , answereth , Amen .

Pope L●o r●proveth such as in his time refused the Cup , which is a token that the Cup was then in use among the Laietie , his words are these : x x Cumque a● tegen●am in●id●litatem s●am , n●st●is a●de●nt interesse myst●●i●● , ita in Sac●am●nt●●●m 〈◊〉 se tem●er at , ut interdum 〈◊〉 lateant , ore i d●g●o C●risti corpus accip●urt , s●●guinem auté Red●mptioni . ● strae haurire omnia● d●●linant ; quod ide● v●str●m volumus s●i●e sanctitatem ut vobis hujusmodi hom●nes et his manifestentu indi●ijs , et quorum depre●ensa ●●rit sacri●ega 〈◊〉 , n●tati et proditi , á S●ncto um societate , s●cer●●ta i aut● crit●te pellantu● Leo ser. 4. de Quadrages . Whereas some to hide their infidelitie come sometimes to Catholike Churches , and are present at the celebration of sacred mysteries , they so temper the matter that with unworthy mouthes they receive the Lords body , but decline to drinke the bloud of our Redemption . I would ●herefore have your holinesse take notice , that by these signes they may be discovered , and their Sacrilegious dissembling may be found out and descried , that being thus discovered they may by Priestly authoritie he cast out of the societie of the Saints .

In like sort Gelasius enjoyned Communion in both kinds . We have found ( saith he ) y y Comperimu● autem quod qui la●●mptà tant●●●odo corpo is sacri poti●ns , a calice sacri cruno●is abstincant ; qui proculdubi● ( quùm neset qu● superslitione do●entur obst●ing● ) aut integra sa●ramenta recipiant aut abinteg●is arce●tur : quia divisio unius eju●demque mysterij fine gra●d sacrilegio non potest perven●re . Dec●e● 3. part . de Con●ecrat . Dist. 2. cap. Comperimus autem . That certai●e having received a po●tion of the sacred body onely , abstaine from the Cup of the most holy bl●ud ; which men because they are said to be intangled with I know not what superstition , either let them receive the whole Sacrament , or else let them be wholly ●xcluded from receiving ; because there can be no dividing of one and the same mysterie without grievous Sacriledge .

Reply .

Gelasius ( hap'ly ) speaketh of some * * [ ●ut integr● ] Hoc ●●t●lli●● de Confi●i●nte . G●o●●a ibid. Priests who consecrated the elements , but themselves received not in both kinds .

Answer .

The words hee useth are Recipiant , and Arceantur , which doe evidently prove , that he speakes of the people , who doe not themselves receive the Sacrament , but from the Ministers hand ; as also the word Arceantur , that is , Let them not be received , though they offer themselves .

Besides , the ancient histories speake not of any Priest that ever made scruple of drinking of the Chalice which himselfe had consecrated .

Reply .

The Manichees had an opinion , z z Vinum non bibunt dicentes fel esse tenebrarum . August . de Haeres . 46. Tom. 6. that Wine was not created by God , but by some evill spirit , and that Christ did not shed his bloud on the Crosse , and hereupon they abstained from the Chalice : therefore the Church in detestation of this errour , for a time commanded Communion under both kinds ; a a The Rejoynder to Dr. Whites Reply . upon this occasion Gelasius made the Decree recorded by Gratian.

R●joynder .

This was not done upon occasion of the Manichee's errour ; for before ever they appeared in any number , Communion in both kinds was practised , as appeareth by the Apostles , Ignatius , Iustin Martyr , Irenaeus , Tertullian , and Saint Cyprian . Now Cyprian the youngest of these flourished about the yeere two hundred and fiftie b b Floruit Cyprian ann 250. Bell. de Script . eccles. , and the Manichees rose not till about the yeere two hundred seventy three . c c Manichaei a Manete quodam dicti sunt circ● annum 273. Prateolus de Haeres . lib. 11.

Againe , although Leo speake of the Manichee's , yet Iesuit Vasques sayth , d d Leo non commendavit usum Calicis contra Manichaeos , sed admonuit ut diligentur observarent quosdam Manich●os , qui ut se Ca●holicos simularent , ita sumebant calicem , ut sanguinem non haurirent in alterâ specie . Vasquez qu. 80. art. 12. Disp. 216. nu. 42 that He commanded not the use of the Cup because of them , but required that those which feigned themselves Catholikes , and came to the holy Communion , receiving the bread , and taking the Cup into their hands , pretending that they dranke the wine , and yet did not , should carefully be observed . Now among a multitude of Communicants some few might hold the Cup to their mouth , and make shew of drinking , and yet receive no wine . The Cup then was not for a time only allowed to the Laicks by Leo and Gelasius , thereby to discover who were Manichees ; but in these Popes dayes the Cup was usually and ordinarily given to the Laicks , and upon the refusing of the Cup ( then in use among the Catholikes ) the Manichees were discovered ; otherwis● how could the Pope have reproved their practice ? How could the Manichees have be●ne espyed and k●owne , if they and the Catholikes had received in one kind both alike ? For this is the token that Leo would have them knowne by , for that Th●y refuse to drinke the bloud of our Redemption ; by which words it is cleere , that the Cup was off●red orderly unto them , as unto others , but th●y refused it .

Now touching the place of G●lasius , the same Vasqu●z sayth , e e Quid●m probabiliter exp●ic●nt de 〈◊〉 Mani●●ae●● , q●i communicabant sub alte●● specie tantum : 〈…〉 licet 〈◊〉 verbi 〈…〉 poss●t 〈…〉 reddit , non 〈…〉 esse 〈…〉 ut sine grandi sacrilegio divi li ●●queat nempe intellige●e videtur ratione suae signifi●at●●onis & institutionis . Vasquez . in 3. part . Tho●ae q●aest . 81. Disp. 216 nu. 76. that Whereas some of his part apply the same to the Manichees , Canon● for therein he teacheth That the mysterie of the Eucharist is of that natu●e in regard of it selfe , that without gri●vous sacriledge it cannot bee d●vided and severed the one part from the other , to wit , because of the institution and signification . Admit then , that the Manichees occasioned this Decree ; yet this Decree is backed with a generall ●eason which forbids all to communicate in one kind onely , under the perill of Sacriledge : so that the Popes Canon reacheth not onely to the Manichee , but to all such as halve the Communion , be they Manichees , o● Papists , or whatsoever they be .

Of the number of Sacraments .

Saint Austine f f Dormi●●ti Ad● fit Evi de ●atere , mortuo Christo per●utitur la●●● , ut pros●●ant Sacram●nta , quib●s formetur Ecclesia . August . tract. 9. in Ioan. & tract● 15. to 9. Leo ep. 22. with others , tell us , That the Sacraments of the n●w Law flowed out of Christ's side : now none issued thence , but the Sacrament of water , which is Baptisme , and the Sacrament of bloud in the Supper .

The same Austine sayth , g g Qued●m pa●●ca pro multis cad●mque factu facillim● , & intellectu augustissima & observatione cass●ssima , ipse D●minus , et Apostolica tradidit Disciplina , sicuti est Baptismi Sacramentum & celebratio corporis & sanguinis Domini . Aug de doctr. Christ . ●ib. 3 c. 9. tom . 3 Our Lord and his Apostles have d●liv●red unto us a few Sacraments in stead of many , and the same in doing most easie , in signification most excellent , in obs●rvation most rev●rend , as is the Sacrament of Baptisme , and the celebration of the body and bloud of our Lord . And the same Father speaking of the same Sacraments ( whi●h he calleth , for h h Sacramentis ●ume●o paucissimis , observatione facillimis signifi●atione prestantissinis , so●iet t●m novi pop●li colligavit ; si cuti est Baptisinus , & communic●●● Corporis , ●t sang●i●is i●fius Aug. epist. 118 ad Ianuar. tom. 2. number the fewest , for observation , easiest , for signification excellentest ) withall indeed addeth a si quid aliud , if any such other Sacrament bee to bee found in Scripture , but himselfe could not find any other ; for he concludeth them within the number of two , saying , i i H●ec sunt Eccl●siege mina Sacramenta . Aug. de Symbolo ad Catech. tom. 9. These be the two Sacraments of the Church .

Of the Eucharist .

Saint Chrysostome saith , k k Sicut enim antequàm sanctificetur pani● , panem nominamus : divin● autem illum sanctificante grati● , mediante Sacerdote , liberatus est quidem ab appellatione ●anis , dig●us aut●m habitus est Dominici corpo●is appellatione etiamsi natura panis in ipso remansit Chrysost● ad Caesa●ium Monach. that Before the Bread be sanctifyed , we call it Bread , but when Gods grace [ after consecration ] hath sanctifyed it by the meanes of the Priest , it is freed from the name of Bread , and is accounted worthy of the name of the Body of Christ , although the nature of the Bread remaine still in it .

Ch●ysostome sayth the nature of bread remayneth after consecration , they say nothing remaines but the outward formes and accidents of bread .

Reply .

Bellarmin l l Neque in toto Chrysostomi opere ullus est liber . vel Epistola ad Caesa●ium . Bell. lib. 2. de Euchar. cap. 22. §. Respo●deo . saith that this Epistle is not extant amongst Saint Chrysostome's Workes : and when Peter Martyr objected this place to Stephen Gardiner Bishop of Winchester , the Bishop replyed , m m Non est hoc ●oannis Chrysostomi , sed ●oanni● cujusdam Constantinopolitani Pet. Mart. defensio doctrinae de Eucharistiâ adversus Gardinerum . pag. 368. That it was none of Chrysostomes , but another Iohns of Constantinople .

Rejoynder .

What though it were not then extant ? diverse parcells of Chrysostome have beene lately found out , and annexed to his other Workes .

Besides , the same Bishop Gardiner reports , n n Stephen Gardin●r in his Explication of the true Catholike faith , touching the Sacrament of the Altar . pag. 116. that Peter Martyr saith , that this Treatise of Chrysostome was extant in a Manuscript , and found in the Library at Florence ; and that a Copie thereof remained in the Archbishop of Canterburies hands . Againe , they that would father t●is ●rea●●se on another , the● must bring us anoth●r Iohn of Constantinople , besides Chrysostome , and tell us what time hee lived ; it is usuall with the Church-storie , and S●int Austine , and Ierome to call Chrysostome Iohn of Consta●tinople , or Priest of Antioch . Lastly , this Authour saith nothing but what Saint Ambrose , Gelasius , and Theodoret have vouched .

For whereas the H●retike E●tyches taught that Christ his body was changed into the substance of his Divinity after the resurrection ; and that the substance of his body remayned no more the same ; Pope Gelasius confuteth him by a similitu●e and comparis●n drawne from the Sacrament , to wit , T●at as the substance of Bread remayneth after consecration ; so Christ his bodily substance remained after the resurrection . His words are these : ●●rta Sacrame●ta quae 〈…〉 & sanguinis Christ , d●vira r●s ●st , propter qu●d , 〈◊〉 p●r ead●m divinae 〈◊〉 , ●●nsortes natu 〈…〉 timen esse non des●●t ●●bstanti● vel natura pa●●● & vini . G●l●sius de du b. natur . in Christo , con●●à Fu●ichen . p●g. 233. B●sil . 1528. & in Bi●●●ioth . Patr. to . 5. pag. 475. Pa●is . 1575. The Sacraments which wee receive , of the body and ●loud of Christ , are a divine thing , by meanes wh●r●of wee are made partakers of the divine nature ; and yet the substance or nature of Bread and Wine doth not cease to be . The Papists they tell us , that after consecration the substance of bread and wine is abolished , and the sha●e● , accidents , & quantity therof only remaine : but this is contrary to these Fathers assertion , who say , there ceaseth not to be the very substance of bread and wine . Neither will it serve to say p p Loq●●tur de Essen●ia & natu●à accident●um . B●ll●r . lib. 2. de Euchar. c. 27. § S●d . & Gelasiu● idem docet quod The●do●etus . Bellar. ibid. § Eadem . that Gelasius by substance meant accidents : for if Gelasius had not taken the word substance properly in both places , he had not concluded against the Hereticke .

Reply .

Pope Gelasius was not the Author of this q q No●andum est Gelasi●m i●●um non ●uisse Rom●num Ponti●●●● Bellar. loco citato . §. Vbi● Treatise , but some other of that name .

Rejoynder .

There be divers Authors that entitle Pope Gelasius to it ? but were it Gelasius Bishop of Caesarea , as Bellarmine seemes to incline Id Ibi● . , or a more ancient Gelasius , Gelasius Citizenus , as Baronius would have it an●o●●2 ●●2 . ; the record is still good against our adversaries , for it is confessed on all sides , that he was an Orthodoxe Father , and very ancient .

Theodoret brings in Eranistes in the person of an Eutycl●ian Heretike , who confounded the two natures in Christ , and ( falsely ) held , that The body of Christ after his Ascension , being Glorified , was swallowed up of the Deitie , and continued no more the same humane and bodily essence , as before his resurrection it had been ; and for defence of this his Heresie , he takes his comparison from the Eucharist and argues in this sort : t t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theodor . Di●log . 2. cap. 24. p●g 113. Even as the symbols or signes of the Lords body and bloud , af●er the words of Invocation ( or Consecration ) are not the same , but are changed into the Body of Christ ; even so after his Ascension was his body changed into a divine substance .

To this Objection of the H●retikes , the Orthodoxe or Catholike ( which was Theodoret himselfe ) replies , and retorts his owne instance upon him thus : You are caught ( saith he u u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Ibid. ) in your owne net , for as the mysticall signes in the Eucharist , after sanctification ( or Consecration ) doe not goe out of their proper nature , but continue in their former figure , and substance , and may be seene and felt as before : so the body of Christ after the Resurrection remaineth in it's former figure , forme , circumscription , and ( in a word ) the same substance which it had before , although after the Resurrection it be immortall , and free from corruption . In which passage we see the Heretike held , that Bread is changed after consecration into the substance of Christ's body , and so do our adversaries ; the Orthodoxe or Catholike taught , that Bread after consecration remaineth in substance the same , and so doe we teach . Theodoret indeed ( and so doe we ) acknowledged that Christ's body after his Ascension was changed from a corruptible , to an immortall and glorious body , but yet not changed in substance ; it still remained the same in substance ; even as the Elements in the Sacrament remaine the same in substance , x x Neque enim signa mysti●a post sanctification●m r●c●●ūt à suà naturà● manent ●nim in priore su●s●anti● , et figur● , et fo●m● & videri et tangi poss●n● , sicut & p●ius . Theodor. tom 2. Dial. 2. Inconfusus . Gentiano Herveto Interprete . that they Were before consecration , and may be seene and fealt , though they be changed in use , from common to consecrated bread and wine .

Now if the Elements of Bread and Wine ( according to this Orthodoxe Father ) remaine in their former substance , shape , and species , then is not the whole substance of bread and wine changed into the whole substance of the body and bloud of Christ ; and where is then your Transubstantiation .

Answer .

B●llarmine answereth this place by distinguishing the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , substantia , saying y y Non loq●itur de sub●st●ntiâ quae dist●nguitur c●●trâ 〈◊〉 ; sed de essentiâ & naturâ Accidentium , quae ipse perpetuò symbo●a appell●t . Bellar. li. 2. de Euchar. c. 27. §. Sed. ; When Theodoret saith , ●hat the substance of the Elements remaynes , and is not changed , hee speaketh not of substance , as it is opposed to accidents , but of the ●ssence and nature of accidents , which hee alwayes understandeth by Symbols .

Reply .

Theodoret in this very Dialogue exactly distinguisheth betweene Substance and Accidents ; and sheweth that by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hee meanes not Accidents , but Substance properly so taken , saying ; z z 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodor . Dial. 2. ca● 22. p. 105. Therefore wee call a body substance , and health and sicknesse an accident ; by which passage it is evident against Bellarmine , that Theodoret takes not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the es●ence , specially of accidents , but for substance prope●ly so called , as it is opposed to Accidents . Besides , if Theodoret had thought ( as the Papists hold ) that the substance of bread and wine ceaseth , and is changed into the very body and bloud of Chirst ; and that the accidents thereof onely remaine , as namely the whitenesse , roundnesse , taste , or the like ; then could not this Father have drawne or r●torted an Argument from the Sacrament , to pro●ve that the substance of Christ's body remayned after his ascension ; for then ( as the learned on ou● side have well observed ) a a

Bi●hop W●●te● Reply to Iesuit Fi●hers Answer , 6. point .

Doctor Featlies Conference with M. ●gleston . and Wo●d .

the Hereticke upon the doctrine of Transubstantiation , might have inferred this erronious opinion , about the humane nature of Christ , to wit , that as in the Eucharist there is onely the outward shape and forme of bread , and not the reall substance : even so in Christ , there was the shape and forme of flesh but not the very nature . The same Theodoret saith , b b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Th●od . 〈…〉 c●p 8. p. 34. that our Saviour honoured the visible symbols with the name of his body and bloud ; not changing the nature , but adding grace to nature . The same Th●odoret saith , c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Ib●d. that our Saviour gave the signe the name of his body . What can a man say more expresse ? then that in th●se words , This is my body , our Saviour hath given to the signe , that is to say , to the bread , the name of his body .

Answer .

You stand much upon Theodoret , but Gregorie Valence d d Theodoretus de alijs quibusdam erro●ibus in Concilio Ephesino notatu● fuit , etiamsi posteà resipuit . Greg. de Valentia lib. de Transub . cap. 7. sect. 11. pag. 390. volum . de reb. fidei controvers. tells you that Theodoret was taxed of errour by the Councell of Ephesus , although he afterwards revoked his errour .

Reply .

You should have showne that the Councell taxed him with errour in this point of the Sacrament ; or that he retracted this opinion as erronious , and then you had said somewhat .

It is true indeed , that at fi●st he was not so firme in his faith , being too much addicted to Theodorus Bishop of Mopsvestia , and to Nestorius , so that he wrote against the twelve Chap●ers which Cyril composed against the Nestorians ; but afterwards he revoked his errour , and accu●sed Nestorius , e e Mariam virginem quae peperit Dominum nostrum Iesum Chris●um , non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dicendam , sed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 [ dixit Nest●rius ] Danaeus in Aug. de Haeres . cap. 91. ex Evagrio . and whosoever should not confesse the blessed Virgin to bee the mother of God , whereupon th● Councell of Chalcedon received him into their Communion . f f D. Crakentho●pe of the fifth generall Councell . cap. 9. nu. 9.

Besides , in the Dialogues alleadged , Theodoret hath notably opposed the Grand Heretique Eutyches , and therin shewed himselfe very Orthodoxe .

I proceede to Saint Austine , the Oracle of the Latine Fathers ; whose judg●ment touching the Eucharist hath beene in part declared in the first Centurie . Hee held that those words , This is my Body were to be taken in a figurative sence ; his rule is , that whensoever the Signe ( as the Bread ) being called Chris●'s body , hath the name of The thing signified , the speech is alwayes figurative , g g Ex hac autem similitudine plerumque e●iam ipsa●um r●rum nomina accipiunt , quarum Sacramenta sunt , sicut ergò secundum qu●●dam modum Sacrame●tum Co●po●is Christi ●orpus Christi est . Augustin tom. 2 Ep●st. 23 ad Bonifa . for Sacraments be signes which often doe take the names of those things , which they doe signifie and repr●sent , Therefore doe they carry the names of the things themselves . Thus Baptisme the signe of Christ's buriall , is called Christ's buriall ; now as h h Vt Baptismus dicitur sepulchrum , si● hoc est corpus meum . Aug. con . Faust. lib. 20 cap. 21. Baptisme is called Christ's Burial , so is the Sacrament of the Body of Christ , called his Body ; and againe , i i Non enim Dominu● d●bitavit dicere , hoc est corpus me●m● cum sig●●●n ●aret co●poris sui . August . to 6 contr. Adimant . c. 12. Christ doubted not to say , This is my Body , when he gave a signe of his body . The same Father upon occasion of Christ's speech , Except you eate the flesh of the Son of man , [ Ioh. 6.53 . ] gives us this general rule ; k k Q●●●quid in s●rmone divino neque ad morum honestatem , neque ad si●●i veritatem propriè ref●●ri pot●●t , siguratum esse cognos●●● . Aug. lib. 3. de doct●●● . Christ . c. 10● tom 3. That whenso●ver we find in Scripture any speech of commanding some heynous act , or forbidding some laudable thing , there to hold the spe●ch to be figurative , even as this of eating the flesh of Chr●st . Now of this Sacrament doth not Christ say , Take , eate , This is my Body ? Saint Austines words are these : Si preceptiva locutio ●lagitium aut facinus videtur ●ubere , figurita est● ut [ N●si manduc●veritis ●arnem meam ] sacinus videtur jubere . Id. Ibid. c. 16. If the Scripture seeme to command any vile or ill fact , the speech is figurative ; Except ye eate the flesh of the Sonne of man , and drinke his bloud , yee have no life in you ; facinus vel flagitium videtur jubere , Christ seemeth to command a wicked and sinfull act ; figura est ergo ; It is therefore a figurative speech , m m Figura ell ergo , pr●ecipiens passioni Domini esse communicandum● et ●uavitèr a●que utilitèr rec●●dendum in memori●● quod pro nobl● caro ●jus ●rucis●xa & vulnerata sit . Id. Ibid. Commanding us to partake of the passion of Christ , and sweetly and profitably keepe in memory that his flesh was crucified for us . Now for the manner of our feeding on Christs body , the same Father tells us , n n Q●omodo in c●●um 〈◊〉 mittam , ut ibi s●dent●m t●neam● s●dem 〈◊〉 , & 〈◊〉 August . sup. 〈◊〉 50 tom . ●● that It is not corporall and sensuall , but spirituall , credendo by believing : How shall I send up my hand into heaven , to take hold on Christ fitting there ? Send thy Faith ( saith he ) and thou hast hold of him . Againe , o o 〈…〉 . 25. Why preparest thou thy teeth and thy belly ? Believe , and thou hast eaten ; and againe , p p 〈◊〉 enim 〈…〉 . Id. Ib●d. 〈◊〉 . 20● For this is to eate the living bread , to believe in him ; he that believeth in him , eateth .

Objection .

You rely much upon Saint Augustine , but he makes for us , as may appeare by that place where he saith , q q 〈…〉 illud corp●● in manibus 〈◊〉 Aug. to●● . in Psal 33. Con●● 1. tom. 8. that Christ at his Supper carried himselfe in his owne hands .

Answer .

Our learned Doctor , Bishop Morton hath notably cleered Bi●hop Mor●on of ●he M●sse , Booke 4. ch●p . ● . s●ct . 8. this place . Saint Augustine expounding the 3● . Psalme , and falling upon a wrong translation of that place in Samuel 1.21.13 . And David feigned hims●lfe mad in their hands , reades thus , He carried himselfe in his owne hands . Now this cannot ( saith he ) be meant of David , or any other man literally ; they are meant then of Christ , when he said of the Eucharist , This is my body . Now these words , Et ferebatur in manibus suis , are neither in the Originall Hebrew text , nor in your vulgar Translation , for there it is● & collabebatur inter manus eorum , David playing the mad man , slipt , or fell into the hands of others ; they that transcribed the Septuagint mistaking 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , his hands , his owne hands , for their hands occasioned this interpr●tation . Now Saint Austine interprets himselfe , and answereth his Quomodo ferebatur ? with a Quodammodo , an s s Et ipse se portab●● Quodammodo . Aug. in Psal. 33. conc. 2. Adverbe of likenesse and similitude , saying that After a certaine manner Christ carried himselfe in his owne hands , and thus he qualifies his fo●mer speech ; so that it cannot be understood of Christs Corporall carrying of his body properly in his owne hands ; but Quodammodo , af●er a so●t : and thus Saint Austine saith , t t Sicut secundum quendam modum Sacramentum Corporis , corpus Christi est ; ●ta Sa●ramentum sidei Fides est . Aug. epist. 23. ad Bonifac. Secu●dum quendam modum , this Sacrament after a sort is the body of Christ , n●t literally , but as Baptisme ( the Sacrament of Faith ) is called faith , to wit , figuratively and im●roperly .

Objection .

You alleadged Saint Chrysostome against Transubstantion , but he makes for it , saying , u u Qu●madmodum si cera igni adhibi●a illi assimilatur , nihil substantiae remanet , nihil superfluit : sic & hic pu●a mysteria consumi corporis substantia . Chrysost tom . 3. Homil. de Euchar. in Encoenijs . Doest thou see bread ? doest thou see wine ? doe these things goe to the draught as other meates doe ? not so , thinke not so● for as when waxe is put to the fire , nothing of the substance remaineth , nothing redoundeth ; so here also t●inke thou the mysteries consumed with the substance of the body of Christ .

Answer .

This place ( as Bishop Bilson saith ) x x Bish. Bilson of Christian Subjection , the fourth part , pag. 658.659 . &c. makes not for you ; for you say the substance is abolished , but the accidents of bread and wine remaine : but when you put waxe in●o the fire , nothing , neither shew , nor substance , nor accidents remaine ; and yet if you consult the Schooles , they will tell you the accidents onely perish , the matter doth not .

Neither doth Chrysostome say , that the mysteries are consumed by the body of Christ● but hee saith , So thinke when thou commest to the mysteries ; that is , thinke not on the elements , but lift up the eyes of thy minde above them , as if they were consumed : and this hee spoke to stirre up the Communicants , rather to marke in this Sacrament the wonderfull power and effects of Gods spirit and grace , than the condition , and naturall digestion of the bread and wine . And it is cleare that this was his meaning : for in the very next wordes following he saith y y Num vides panem ? num vinum ? Nè putetis corpus accipere ab homine , sed ex ipso Seraphin forcipe ign●m . Chrysost. de Euchar. in Encoenijs . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ; Wherefore approaching ( to the Lords Table ) doe not thinke that you receive the divine body at the hands of a man , but that you take a fiery coale from a Seraphim , or Angel , with a paire of tongs . By this straine of rhetoricke Chrysostome ( as his manner is ) perswadeth the people to come to the Lords Table with no lesse reverence , than if they were to receive a fiery coale ( as Esay did in his vision ) from one of the glorious Seraphims . Chrysostome had no intent that the bread was transubstantiated , no more than that the Priest was changed into an Angel , or his hand into a payre of tongs , or the body of Christ into a coale of fire ; and hee useth the same amplification in both the speeches , the same phrase [ thinke you ] and at the same time , and to the same people : so that if one bee ( as certainely it is ) a straine of rhetoricke , why not the other also ? Sixtus Senensis gives a good rule for interpretation of the Fathers speeches , specially in this argument ; z z Non sunt Conclonatorum verba semper eo rigore ac●●p●end● , multa enim Declamatore● per hyperbolen enunciant Hoc interdum Chrysostom● cō●ingit . Sixt. Senens . Biblioth. lib. 6. anno● 152. The sayings of Preachers , are not to be urged in that rigour of their words ; for after the manner of Oratours , they use to speake many times hyperbolically , and in excesse . And hee instanceth in Chrysostome , as well hee might , for hee is full of them , even there where hee speakes of the Sacraments , hee saith , a a Dentes carni suo infe● Chrys. tom . 3. Homil. 45. in Io●n . That our teeth are fixed in the flesh of Christ ; that b b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lingu● cruentatur hoc admirabill sanguine . Chrys. tom . 2. Homil. 83. in Ma●h . our tongues are dyed red with his bloud ; and againe , c c Ille non te baptizat , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●d Homil. 50. in Math. That it is not the Minister , but God that baptizeth thee , and holdeth thy head . Now these and the like sayings must be favourably construed , as being improper speeches , rhetoricall straines , purposely uttered to move affections , stirre up devotion , and bring the Sacrament out of contempt , that so the Communican●s eyes may not bee finally fixed on the outward elements of bread and wine , being in themselves but transitory and corruptible creatures ; but to have their hearts elevated and lift up by faith to behold the very body of Christ , which is represented in these mysteries . Otherwise , the Fathers come downe to a lower key , when they come to speake to the point , yea or no : and accordingly Saint Chrysostome , when once he is out of his Rhetoricall veine , and speaks positively and doctrinally , sayth , d d Quando hoc mys●e●ium trad●dit , vinum ●radid●t . Chrys Homil. 82. in Math. When our Lord gave the Sacrament , hee gave wine ; and againe , e e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . — 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ch●ys . in Hebr●● 10. Hom. 17. to● 4. pag. 523. edit. Savilij . Doe wee not offer every day ? Wee offer indeed , but by keeping a memory of his dea●h ; and hee puts in a kind of caution , or correction , lest any should mistake him ; Wee offer ( saith hee ) the same Sacrifice , or rather the remembrance thereof . And such a Commemorative and Eucharisticall sacrifice we acknowledge .

Object .

Saint Cyril of Alexandria , useth the word corporally , saying ; f f Corporaliter enim s●lius per bened●ctorem mysticam nobis , ut ●oma unitu● ; Spi●itualitèr autem ut Deus . Cyrill . in Ioan. lib. 11. cap 27 tom. 1. that by the mysticall benediction , the Sonne of God is united to us corporally , as man , and spiritually , as God .

Answer .

Hereby is meant a full perfect spirituall conjunction with the sanctified Communicants , excluding all manner of Imagination , or fantasie ; and not a grosse , and fleshly being of Christ's body in our bodyes , according to the appearance of the letter ; otherwise , this inconvenience would follow , that our bodies must be in like manner corporally in Christ's body ; for Cyril as hee saith , Ch●ist is corporally in us , so he saith , g g Communicatione corporis et sanguinis Christi , ipse in nobis est , & nos in ipso . Id. ibid. l. 10. c. 13. weare corporally in Christ ; by corporally then he meaneth , that neere , and indissoluble union , in the same sence that the Apostle useth it , saying , In him dwel●eth all the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily , Coll. 2.9 . bod●ly , that is indissolubly .

B●sides , Christ is likewise joyned corporally to us by the Sacrament of Baptisme , and yet therein there is no Transubstantiation .

Of Image-worship .

Saint Hierome saith ; h h Nos unam veneram●r Imaginem quae est Imago invisibilis et omnipote●tis Dei . Hi●ron to . 50. li. 40. in Ezech c. 16. We worship one Image which is the Image of the invisible and omnipotent God . Saint Austine saith , i i N●lla imago e●us coli debet , nisi illa quae hoc est qu●d ipse , nec ipsa pro illo sed cum illo . Aug ep 119. ad Ianuar. cap 11. No Image of God ought to be worshipped , but that which is the same thing that he is , meaning Christ Iesus , [ Col. 1.15 . Hebr. 1.3 . ] nor yet that for him , but with him . And as for the representing of God in the similitude of a man , he resolveth that it is Vtterly unlawfull k k Tale simulac●●um Deo nefas est Christiano in templo collocare . Idem tom. 3. de Fide & Symbolo cap 7. to erect any such Image to God in a Christian Church . He condemneth the use of Images , even when they are not adored for themselves , but made instruments to worship God , saying , l l Sic omnino ●rrare meruerunt , qui Christum & Apostolos ejus , non in sanctis codicibus . sed i● pictis pari●tibus quaesierunt . Id. to . 4. de Consens . Evang. lib. 1 c. 10. Thus have they deserved to erre which sought Christ and his Apostles in painted Images , and not in written bookes . The same Austine writing of the manners of the Catholike Church , directly severeth the case of some men , who were wont to kneele superstitiously in Churh yards before the tombes of Martyrs , and the painted histories of their sufferings ; these private mens cases he severeth from the common cause , and approved practice of the Catholike Church , saying , m m Nolite consectari turbas imperitorum , qu● vel in ips● ver● Religione superstit●osi sunt . Novi multos esse sepulchrorum & picturarum adoratores : n●nc vos illud admoneo , ut aliquando Ecclesi●● Catholicae maledicere desi●atu , vi●uperando m●res hominum , quos & ipsa co●dem●at● & quo● quoti●ie tanq●am malos ●ilios corrigere st●det . Id. to . 1. de mor. Eccles. Cathol. cap. 34. Doe not bring in the company of rude m●n , which in the true religion it selfe are superstitious . I know many that are worshippers of Graves and pictures . Now this I advise that you cease to speake evill of the Catholike Church by upbraiding it with the manners of those men , whom she her selfe condemneth , and seeketh every day to correct as naughtie children , so that in Saint Austines times , ( as is already no●ed ) * * See in the second Centurie S. Austins testimonie on the 113. Psalm . Images , and Image-worship were not used by any generall warranted practice ; if some mis-informed men used it , this could not in Saint Austines opinion , make it a Church duty , necessary and Catholike , or draw it to bee a generall custome .

Bellarmine answereth , n n Dico Augustinum scripsisie cum librum in primordio conversion● su● ad sidem Cath●licam ; tamen posteà meli●s instructu● excusavit [ eos ritu● ] ab Idololatri●●● Bell● li. de Imag. cap. 16. §. Dico . that Saint Austine wrote this in the beginning of his Conversion to Christianitie , and that upon better information he changed his mind ; but he tells us not in what part of his Retractations this is to be found .

Divers other shifts besides are used herein : and some fly to the distinction of an Idoll and an Image , but that will not se●ve ; for the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is often translated Simulachrum , a likenesse or simili●●de ; and as eve●y Idoll is an Image of some thing , so every Image worshipped turnes Idoll ; there may be some ods in the language , but none in the thing it selfe .

Bellarmine minceth o o Bellarm. de Imaginib . cap. 23. & 25. the matter , and would have the Image worshipped , not prope●ly , and because of it selfe , but reductively , inasmuch as it doth expresse the Sampler : Others p p Thom●s 3. part . qu. 25. art. ● . hold that the Image is to bee worshipped in it selfe , and with the s●m● wo●ship that the person is , which is represented ; so that the Crucifixe is to be reverenced with the selfe same hon●ur that Christ Iesus is . And as for the vulgar people , they goe bluntly to it with down●right adoration Cassander saith , q q Mani●e●tius ●st , quam ut multis verb●●●xpl●c●ri debeat — ita ut ●l summ● adorationem quae ●el ● Pag●n●● suis f●nu●●c●● is ●xhib●i ●on●ucuit , nil ● nostris reliqui ●●ctum esse vid● atur . Call●●d●● Consult . de Imagin . It is more manifest , than that it can bee denyed , that the worship of Images and Idols hath too much prevailed , and the sup●rstitious humour of people hath beene so cockered● that nothing hath beene omitted among us , either of the highest adoration and vanity of Painims , in worshipping and adoring Images . Polydore also saith , r r Sunt exim be●e mul●i ●u●iores , qui Imag●nes ●ola●t non ut sig●● , s●● pe●i●●e qu ●si ipsae ●easam ali qu●m habeant ●t ijs magis fi●●● q●àm C●●isto , vel alijs Devis q●●●● d●ca●ae sunt P l●d . Vng. de Inv●nt . li. 6 c●p. 13. People are growne to such madnesse , that there are many rude and stupid persons , which adore Images of wood , stone , marble , and brasse , or paint●d in windowes , not as signes , but as though they had sense ; and they repose more trust in them , than in Christ or the Saints , to which they are dedicated . Ludovicus Vives saith , * * M ●●i ●●●●stiani in re bo●● ple●unque pe●●ant , quo● Divos D●●●●que●on a iter venerantur q●● Deum . Nec video in m●ltis q●●d fit dis●●imen i● 〈◊〉 ●o●um opinionem de Sanctis , & il quod G●n●il●s p●t●hant de suis D●●● . 〈◊〉 . Vives Schol●n Au●ustin . de Civit. D●● . l. 8. cap. 27. Sai●ts are esteemed and worshipped by many , as were the Gods among the Gentiles .

Objection .

The honour or dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person represented , or p●ototype , as appeares by our being uncovered , & using reverence in the Kings Chamber of presence , and before his Chaire of estate , when his person is absent ; in like sort , the honour , and worship due to the Image , redoundeth to Christ and his Saints : now if an Image bee capable of contempt and reproach , it is also capable of honour and worship .

Answer .

The Rule [ The dishonour done to the Image redoundeth to the person ] is true , specially in civill affaires , when the Party would be honoured by the Image : and thus was Theodosius grieved with them of Antioch , s s Theodoret lib. 5 ●istor . cap. 19. for casting downe his wives Statue . It may also redound to the p●rson by accident , that is , when a man doth a thing with a purpose to dishonour him ; as Iulian did , t t Sozomen 〈◊〉 . lib. 5. cap. 20. when hee pulled downe the Image of Christ , and set up his owne .

Besides , these contraries are not paria ; for it suffiseth , to the dishonouring of God , that there bee an evill affection or intention : but a good intention is not sufficient to the honouring of God , except the meanes , as well as the meaning bee prescribed of God .

Lastly ( as learned Bishop White saith u u Bishop Whites Reply to Iesuit Fishers Answer , point 1. pag. 228. ) this Similitude halteth : for the Kings Chaire of State , and his image , when they are honoured or dishonoured , are conjoyned with his person , by civil ordinance and relation : but the artificiall Image of Christ and his Crosse are not conjoyned with Christ , by divine ordination , or by relation grounded on Christs Word , but by an imaginary act of the superstitious worshipper ; also civill and religious worship , are of diverse beginnings , and formes , and every thing that is possible , lawfull , and commendable in the one , is not so in the other .

Objection .

Adoration is performed to Images , as being done outwardly , relatively , and transitorily unto the Image ; inwardly , affectuously , absolutely , and finally unto Christ .

Ans●er .

If you adore Images outwardly , relatively , and transitorily , then ( as the same Bishop saith x x Id. ibid pag. 246. ) you make Images a partiall object of adoration : but God himselfe who saith , I will not give my glory to another ( to wit , in whole or in part ) neither my prayse to graven Images ( Esay 42.8 . ) hath excluded ●mages from copartnership with himselfe in adoration ,

Of Prayer to Saints .

Concerning Prayer to Saints , Saint Hierome , or whosoever y y Recte quoque Commentaria in Proverbia tribuuntur Bedae , non Hieronymo . Bellar. de Script . Eccles. seculi quarti . else was the Authour of those Commentaries on the Proverbs , sayth z z Nullum invocare , id est , in nos orando vocare nisi Deum debemus . Hieron . tom. 7. in Proverb . cap. 2. : Wee ought to invocate , that is , by Prayer to call into us none but God .

And in another place , a a Quicquid dixero , quia ille non audit , mutu●● videtur . Id. to . 1. ad Heliodor . Epitaph . Nepotiani . Whatsoever I shall utter seemeth dumbe , because hee ( Nepotian ) being defunct , heareth me not . Theodoret upon the 2. and 3. Chapter to the Colossians expressely sayes ( and that by the authority of the Councell of Laodicea ) that Angels are not to bee prayed unto : and if not Angels , not Martyrs .

Saint Austi●e in his booke which hee wrote of true religion , saith ; b b Non sit nobis Religio cultus hominum mortuorum . Aug. tom. 1. de verâ Relig. cap. 55. The worshipping of men that are dead should bee no part of our religion . Papists invocate Saints in the Liturgie of their Masse , which the Ancients did not . Saint Austine saith expressely , that Martyrs were named at the Communion Table , but not invocated : his words are these , c c Ad quod sacrificium , sicut homines Dei , qui mundum in eju● confessione vi●●r●nt suo loco et ordine n●minantu● , non tamen à Sa●erdote qui sacri●icat , i●●o● antur . August . li. 22. de ●ivit . Dei . c. 10. to . 5. At which Sacrifice the Martyrs are named in their place and order , as men of God , which have overcome the world in the confession of him ; but yet notwithstanding , they are not invocated by the Priest which sacrifiseth .

Answer .

This place is thus answered : * * Non tamen à sacerdote qui sacri●icat , invocantur ; Deo quippe , non ipsis sacrificat . ●ac . Pa●●el . Litu●g . secul . 5. tom . 1. Non invocantur ut Dij . L●● . Coquaeus . — Card Perron . The Priest doth not invocate Saints by direct Prayer . Besides , the Sac●ifice is directed to God the Father alone , and that may be the reason why the Saints are not invocated .

Reply .

Saint Austine excludeth all invocation of Saints , both direct and indirect , in the administra●ion of the Eucharist . Nei●her will th●se distinctions helpe them ; for though the invoc●tion of them be not a direct , absolute , and sov●raigne invocation , yet if it be an indirect , relative , or ●●bal●erne invocation , an invocation it is : ( and such a one is the invocation at the Altar in the Masse : for thus it is , d d M●nuale Ec●esi● Sali●b●●●●●is . In Canone Mi●iae Libera nos Domine ab omnibus malis , &c. interced●nte pro nobis beatâ virgine , &c. beatis Apostolis , &c. cum omnibus Sanctis . ) and so what shall become of Saint Augustine's non invocantur , who knew none of these distinctions of the Cardin●ll's , which in that Age , and many Ages after were not heard of , e e Bi●h●p A●d●ewes Answer to Ca●di●●l perron's Reply . pag. 3● 38. saith our learned Bishop of Winchester .

Neither can the Cardi●all alleadge any reason , why if the Saints may be prayed unto , they may not be so , as well by the Priest as by the people ; as well at M●sse , as at Mattines ; as well in the body of the Church , as at the Altar ?

A● for th●ir new distinction , of Sacrificall and unsacrificall Invocation , and their conceit , that the Sacrifice is Offered ●nto God the Father alone , it is ( sayth the same Lea●n●d Bishop ) f f B●●l● . And●ewes ibid. refuted by the Canon it selfe of the Masse : th● concl●sion whereof , g g M●nuale Eccle● . Sali●bar . ibid. is Placeat tibi sancta T●i●i●as obs●q●ium servitut●s meae , &c. So that that the Sacrifice is offer●d ●o the whole Trinitie . Besides there are divers Coll●ct● more● directed unto Christ himselfe , and ●●l of them said , Dum assistitur Altari .

Now in case that any upon consideration of their own● unworthin●sse , and Gods dreadfull Majestie , should se●k● to Go● b● mediation of others ; Saint C●rysostom● of all the F●●he●s is most plentifull in refuting this course of Int●●cession by others . When thou hast need to sue unto men ( sai●h he ) h h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 Serm. 7. de 〈◊〉 tom . 6. Edit. S●vil p●g ●02 . thou art forced first to deale wit● doore keepers , an● Po●ters , and to intreat Parasites and Flatt●rers , and to goe a long way about . But with God there is no such matter ; he is intreated without a● Intercesson : it sufficeth onely that thou cry in thine heart and bring teares with thee ; and entring in straightway thou mayst draw him unto thee .

And for example hereof , he sets before us the woman of Canaan , Shee entreated not Iames , ( sayth he ) i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem in dimissione Chana●●ae tom . 5. Edit. Savil. p. 190. shee beseecheth not Iohn , neither do●h she come to Pe●er , but brake thorow the whole company of them , saying , I have no need of a M●d●atour , but taking repentance with me for a spoakesman , I come to the fountaine it selfe . For this cause ●id he d●scend , for this cause did he take flesh , that I might have the boldnesse to speake unto him : I have no need of a mediatour , have thou mercie upon me . And whereas some repose such co●fide●ce in the intercession of the Saints , that they looke to receive greater benefits by them , than by their owne p●ayers , he brings in againe the w●man of Canaan , and wi●heth us to observe , k k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id●m Se●m . in Philip. v. 18. c 1 de profectu Evang. tom . 5. Edi● . Savil p●g 417. How when others intreated , he put her backe : but when she her selfe cryed out , pr●ying for the gift , he yielded . Yea , he sayth farther ; that , l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id●m in Acta Apost. c. 16. Homil. 36. God then doth most , when we doe not use the entreatie of others : for as a kind friend then blameth he us m●st , as not daring to trust his Love , when we entreat others to pray unto him for us : thus use we to doe with those that se●ke to us : then we gratifie them most , when they come unto us by themselves and not by others .

Answer .

Chrysostome spoke thus , m m Protulit haec , adversus quosdam d●sides , qui 〈◊〉 Divor●m patrocinio ●●mmi●tu●t , ut interdum ipsi 〈◊〉 se t●t●s in peccata a●●●ciant . Sixtus Senens . Annot 123● ut ●esert Nobil ●l mimus in notia in Chrysostomum . against such idle fellowes as Committed th●ms●lves wholly ●o the patronage of their Tu●elar Saints , and themselves lived in their Sinnes ; or he uttered such speeches Homily wise , n n Haec 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . dicuntur , non 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Nobil . Fla●in . not ●● Chrysost. as in the Pulpit , not Dogmatically , as delivering his judgement .

Reply .

As if a man might not deliver his judgement in the Pulpit ; for albeit in figures and phrases , and manner of handling , there is s●me d●ff●rence , betweene a Preacher before the people , and a R●ade● before the learned ; yet no learned Go●ly man , such as Chrysostome was , will so advisedly , so vehemently , and often times as he did , utter any thing in the Pulpit , before the weaker , the truth whereof he is not able to justifie in the Schooles before the best learned .

Neither we●e they whom Chrysostome taxed so very laz●e , but rather such as tooke more paines than needed ; and ( as hee saith ) went a long way about , by se●king to their patrons , mediatours , and favourites ; whereas hee shewes them a neerer may , to wit , to goe immediately to the Master of Requests , Christ Iesus .

Objection .

You have produced diverse Fathers against Saintly invocation , and much pressed Saint Chrysostome's testimony , whereas hee makes for us ; for Chrysost●me saith o o Sanctis suppli●●t●●us a●cedit , ut pro se apud Deum interced●nt . Chrysost. Homil. 66. ●d popu . Antio●hen . that the Emperour laying aside all princely state , stood humbly praying unto the Saints , to bee intercessours for him unto God .

Answer .

Bellarmine indeed alleadgeth p p Bell●r lib. 1. de Sanct. Beatit . cap. 19. Chrysostome's sixty sixt Homily Antiochenum● and yet the same Bellarmine , upon better advise , when he is out of the heat of his polemick controversies , & comes to a pacifick Treatise of the Writings of the Fathers ; then hee tells us , q q ●x Homi●ijs ad pop An●io●he● viginti & una tant●●m ●eperiri 〈…〉 in antiqu●s 〈◊〉 Bellar. li. de Script . ●c●les . ●d an. 398. that Chrysostome made but one and twenty Homilies to the people of Antioch , and that no more are to bee found in the ancient Libraries .

And yet posito , sed non concesso , admit that these words were Ch●ysostome's indeed , yet they reach not home ; for they speake onely what the Emperour did de facto● not d● jure : it is onely a relation , what hee did out of his private devotion , it is no approbation of the thing done . Now what some one or two shall doe , carryed away with their owne devout affection , is not straight way a rule of the Church .

Besides , though the Saints interceded for us , yet it will not hence follow , that wee are to invocate them , having no warrant from God so to doe : now in such a high poynt of his worship , wee must keepe us to his command r r Deu●er . ●2 . 32 . , and that must guide ou● devoti●n .

The other places of Chryso●tome alleadged by B●llarmine speake of the Saints living , and not of the Saints deceased .

Lastly , Chrysostome ( as hath beene observed in the poynt of the E●cha●ist ) speak●s oftentimes rather out of his rhetorick● , than out of his divinity . Sixtus Senensis delivereth this observation concerning the Fathers , and hee names Chrysostome , s s Non sunt Concionatorum verba semper eo rig●re accipienda ; multa enim D●clamato●es per Hyperbolen enunciant Hoc inte●dum Chrysostomo ●ontingit . Sixt. Senens . Biblio . lib. 6. annot. 152. That in their sermons we may not take their words strict●y , and in rigour , because they many times breake out into declamations , and declare and repeat matters , by Hyperboles , and other figurative speeches . In a word , whatsoever Chrysostome report of others , himselfe ( as wee have heard ) was all for our immediate addresse of our Prayers unto God .

Objection .

Bellarmine saith , t t Theodoretus in Historia Sanctorum patrum , singulas vitas ita concludit ; ego autem huic narrationi finem imponens , rogo & quaeso ut per horum intercessionem divinum consequar auxilium . Bellar. li. 1 de Sanct. Beat. c. 19. that Theodoret shutteth up the story of the Father● lives in these termes : My suit and request is , that by the Prayers and intercession of the Saints , I may finde divine assistance .

And the same Bellarmine saith , u u Multa it●m habet de Invocatione Sanctorum lib. 8. ad Graecos . Bellar. quò sup●à . that Theodoret in his booke of the Greekes hath much touching Prayer to Saints .

Answer .

Theodoret saith onely , Rogo & quaeso , I beseech and intreat , not th●s , nor that Sa●nt , but God alone : to this end and purp●se , that by their intercession and prayers , I may have assi●●ance .

Now to the booke de curandis Graecorum affectibus questioned , whether i● be x x Rob. Coci Censur● Patrum . pag. 195. Theodoret's , or no ; wee oppose that which is Theodoret's out of question ; upon the second and third Chapters to the Colossians , where hee exp●essely sayes ( and that by the au●hority of the Councell of Laodicea ) Angels are not to be prayed to , and if not Angels , then not Saints and Ma●tyrs .

Objection .

Saint Austine sayth , Injuri● est en●● pro 〈…〉 17. de ve●b . Apost li. It is injurie to pray for a Martyr , by whose prayers we on the other side ought to be recommended .

Answer .

This place is not to the pu●pose , for he sayth onely that the Saints pray for us , which thing we have never denyed . We doe out of Godly conside●ations presume , that albeit they know not the necessity of particular men , yet they pray for the Church in generall . But that wee should for this cause invocate them , or yield them any religious service , S. Austine doth not avouch .

The other testimonies alleadged by Bella●mine , out of Saint Austine , are all for Martyrs , and not for Saints ; now in Saint Aust●nes opinion , the Martyrs had an esp●ciall priviledge above other Saints .

B●sides they might well have spared the alleadging of Saint Austine , Theodoret Chrysostome , Prudentius , Saint Ambrose , Origen , Irenaeus , and othe●s , in proofe of Sai●tly invocation ; ina●much as these with divers others , are by their great Author z z Sixt●s Senens . Bibl. San●t . lib. 6. Annot 345. 〈…〉 of this ●pinion . Sixtus Senensis reckoned up amongst them that held the Saints departed did not injoy the presence of God , ●ill after th● generall Resurrection ; which if they h●ld that they did not , then would they not hold that they were to bee prayed to ; they being secluded from Gods presence , being onely in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a a Secreti● 〈…〉 A●g li● . 2. de civit . De● cap 9. tom. 5. Some certaine Receptacles or Wards , b b Omnes in und commun●que●ustodia detinentu● . Lact●n . li 7. cap 21. attending in the porch or base Court abroad ; not adm●tted to the presence of the Almighty ; and so not seeing● hearing nor knowing , whether prayer were made to them at all , or no ; being but as yet in Atrijs , as Bernard would have it c c Primum in tabernacul●● ; secundam in A●rijs ; tertio in Do●o De● . Be●n . ●erm. 3. de omnibus Sanctis . . For in such Retiring or drawing roomes , they placed the soules of all the faithfull , except those of the Martyrs .

Objection .

Maximus Taurinensis in his Sermon upon Saint Agnes , sayth , d d Vt no●tri meminisse 〈◊〉 quib●s pass●mus preci●us 〈◊〉 . S. Max●●●●erm . de S. Agn●te . in M. B●blioth Patr Colon . 16.8 . to 5. pag. 29. By all such Prayers and Orizons as I can conceive , I beseech the● , vouchsafe to remember me .

Answer .

The●e Sermons of Maximus , as great as he was in name , they are not greatly to be esteemed ; e e M●ximi Homiliae , & r●tiquae ferè quae de Tempore , de Sanctis circumferuntur , maximae faciend●e non sunt . Eliens . Respons. ad Bell. Apolog. c. 1. p 42. inasmuch as they goe with an Aliâs , sometimes under one name , sometimes under another , f f Tribuuntur simul , & S. Ambrosio , et S. Maximo . Bell. de S●r. Eccl. ad ann. 420 Maximi Taurinensi● sermones , ai● Perkinsus , incen●tae fid●● sunt ; ex ijs enim plu●imi varijs authoribus ad s●ribuntur . Andr. Rivet . Crit. sacri . l. 4. c. 23. having inde●d no certaine knowne Father : so that they are not to goe for Maximes in divinity , or rules of Faith .

But suppose they be his owne words ; they are but a Rhetoricall flourish which he used in his commendatorie , Panegyricall Sermon upon Saint Agnes her Anniversarie ; and he speakes but faintly , Quibus possumus precibus ; in effect g g Bishop . Montagu of the Invocation of Saints . pag. 207. as I can , so I direct this my addresse unto thee : heare and helpe me accordingly as thou canst , and maist : so the man , in the point was not so fully perswaded of that , or any Saints assistance , as that hee went farther than opinion .

Objection .

Victor Bishop of Vtica , when the Church was pestered with the barbarous Vandals , h h Adestote Angeli Dei , Deprecamini Patria●chae , orate S. Prophetae , estote Apostoli Suffragator●s , praecipuè tu Petre B. quare files pro ovibus et agnis ? S. Victor V●icens . l. 3. de perseq . Wandal propè sinem . & in Biblioth. Patr. tom. 7. pag. 1928 Par●●dit . per Margarin . de la Bigne . ann. 1589. calleth to the Angels , Prophets , Patriarks , and Apostles , to Deprecate , and Pray for the distressed Church .

Answer .

Victor Bishop of Vtica , is an Historian ; and such are Narratores , relaters of other mens Acts , not Expositores , of their owne opinions ; narrations have no more weight or worth , then have those Authors from whence they proceed .

But Vic●or in this place laying aside the person of an Historian , takes up the carriage of a Panegyrist meerely , as appeares by his expostulating with Saint Peter , and chiding him , which was not really and indeed , but onely Rhetorically , and Figuratively , saying , Why art thou Blessed Saint Peter silent ? Why dost not thou above all the rest take care of the Sheepe and Lambes committed unto thee : Now if this were a straine of Rhetoricke , why also is not that his compellation of the Saints Triumphant to assist the Church Millitant , and then distressed .

Object .

Fulgentius speakes i i ●●co●maes is●●os cursu● n●ture V●●g● M●ri●● in Domino nostro ●esu Christo ●us●epst ut 〈◊〉 ad se 〈◊〉 s●●ntnis subventi● ; ●t sic restaura●er omne ge●us 〈◊〉 ad se vententium n●va Eva si●ut omne gen●s vir●rum Ad an no●us recuperat Fulgent . in serm de Laud. B. Ma●iae . of the blessed Virgins helping all suc● women as ●lie unto her .

Answer .

The same Au●hor goes on ( th●ugh Bellarmine conceale it ) & tell● us , that the Virgin Mary ( whom he intitles the new Eve , as Christ is called the new Adam ) restored all womankind , as Christ did all mankind . Shall we th●nk that the true Fulgentius ( a man of worth in his time ) would thus par● stakes be●wixt Christ Iesus and the Virgin Mary , in that great work of our Redemption ? Surely , this is some coun●erfeit going under the name of Fulgentius . And so I finde , that the whole Homily is in the tenth Tome of Saint Austin's workes , u●der the Title of the fiftee●th Sermon de Tempore . And the Divines of Lovan k k In Appendice ad decimum tom●m Augustini . Pa●is . 1586. found it ascribed unto Severianus in some Copies , an● print●d amongst Fulgentius his wo●kes ; so that it appeares to be but filius populi , some b●●e issue , whose Father being meane and u●knowne , yet the brat is layd at some honest mans doore .

Object .

l l Et per ●on●m aemulationnē ip●o●um ambite suf●ragia . ●eo serm. 5. de Ep●phan . V●de cu●dem in se●m , d● annive●sar●o suae assumptionis , & de ●anct . Petro & Paulo & Lau●●n●o . Saint Leo would have us to make sute for the votes , prayers , and suffrages of the Saints , speci●lly Saint Peters .

Answer .

Saint Leo goes no farther than this , By his merits and prayers wee hope to finde assistance . Besides , he speakes of Intercession without any Invocation .

Object .

The Fathers in the Chalcedon Councell said , m m Flavianus Martyr pro nobis oret . Concil. Chalced. act. 11. Let the Martyr Flavianus pray for us .

A●swer .

Flavianus , a Catholike Bishop was murdered for an Hereticke by the Ephesin Latrocinie , and Dioscarus his Faction ; the worthy Councell of Chalcedon loosed him af●er his death , and honoured him as a Saint and Martyr : insomuch that upon the mention of his name , the Fathers there assembled made this joynt acclamation , Flavianus lives after his death : Let the Martyr pray for us . Now this was votum , non invocatio , a wish , and no direct invocation . Or if they will reade it , Martyr pro nobis orat , the Martyr prayes for us , to wit , in geneall , wee doe not denye it , nor doth it helpe their cause .

By this we see what to thinke of the thirty Fathers Greek and Latine , mustered up by Bellarmine for proofe of Saintly invocation ; they may ( as learned Winchester observes ) n n

1. Verè Patres , sed non verè citantur .

2. Verè citantur , sed sidei suspect●e .

3. Et ve●i P●tres , & verè citantur , sed nihil ad rem . Resp. ad Card. B●llarm . Apol. cap. 1. p. 39.

bee put into three rankes ; some of them being indeed true Fathers , but not truely alleadged : others truely alleadged , but they bee not homines legales , good men and true Fathers , but counterfeits , bearing their names : others be true Fathers , and truly alleadged , but they speake not ad rem , to the poynt in question .

To come to particulars ; there be seaven of the thirty , who lived after the first five hundred yeares ,

Post-nat● .

G●egory the first , Gregory of Turon , Bede , Anselme , Bernard , Damascen , Theophylact.

so that they are later , and Post-nati unto Primitive antiquitie , being out of the verge of the limited time , and out of the compasse of the Churches puritie ; Damascen living about the yeare seven hundred and thirty , and Theophylact surviving William the Conquerour , some of them also be partiall , as speaking to the poynt when it got some footing in the Church .

There be others to the number of eight ,

Suspect●e Fidei .

Ign●tius , Cornelius Papa , Athanas. de S. Deipara , Ephraem de laude Mariae , Nazianzen upon Cyprian , Cyril's Catechisme , Chrisos●ome's 66. Homily ad popul . A●tioch , Tulgen . de laude B. Mari● .

who have put on the visour of antiquitie , and would seeme ancient , but are justly suspected to bee ranke counte●feits ; and men of yesterday in comparison .

Two or three of the Greeke Fathers are wrong cited , by a false writ , and a corrupt translation .

There be seven other of the witn●sses ,

Non verè citati .

●asil in ●rat in 40. Martyr . Eus●bius de praep . Evang.

who speake not positively as Divines , but like Poets , Panegyrists , & Oratours , with Figures , Apostr●phe's , and Prosopopeiae's in a Poeticall veine , and Rhetoricall streine ;

Rhetoricantur Paties .

Nazian●ere , Hie●ome . S. Maxi●us , Nyssen .

of this ranke is Nazianzen's Respice de caelo ; Hierome's Vale ● Paula ; Maximus , his Itaque ô splendida virgo ; Nyssen , his comp●llation to Theodore the Martyr , Coge chorum Martyrum ; Saint Victor , Victor , Paulinus , Prudenti●s . his adestote Angeli , and Paulinus and Prudent●us with th●ir Poetry .

The o●her sixe tha● remain● upon record , speake not to the poynt : Patres ve●● citati , sed nihil ad rem . they t●ll us indeed of the Saints inte●ceding for us , to wit , in gen●rall ; but this inferre●h not our invocation of them .

They tell us also of some private mens opinion , and the pract●ce of so●●e few ; but this doth not wa●rant it to have beene the doctrine and practice of the Church .

Of Ius●ification by Faith .

Al●hough Faith onely justifie , yet is not Faith alone , or solitarie in the person justified ; even as the eye though it onely see , yet it is n●t alone in the body , but joyned with the rest of the members ; in like sort , Faith a●d Charity where they are not both joyntly together , there ( as Leo sayth ) o o Vbi non simul fuerint , simul d●sunt . Leo S●rm . 7. de Qu●d●●ges . they are both wanting .

Saint Augustine saith , p p Sola Fides Christi mund●t August . in Psal. ●● tom. 8. — praecogn●tis , quod non fuerant credituri in Fide , qu● 〈◊〉 a p●catorum obligattone liberari . That Faith onely purifieth the ●eart .

Saint Chysostome often useth the selfe same q q Chrysost in cap. 4. ad R●m . tom. 4 & de side & l●g● nature . tom . 3. forme of spe●ch , to wit , t●at Faith onely justifieth .

Saint Augustine saith , r r Ipse ergo p●●●atum ut 〈…〉 in ipso ; 〈…〉 non suum , 〈…〉 nec in ●● , s●d in nobis 〈◊〉 Aug. tom. 3. in Enchi●id . ad 〈…〉 cap. 41. He is sinne , and wee are justice ; not our owne , but Gods ; not in our selves , but in him ; as he is sinne , not his owne , but ours ; not in hims●lfe , but in us : so are wee made the ju●tice of God in him , as he is sinne in us ; to wit , by Imputation .

And againe , s s In 〈◊〉 Fidei pro non peccanti●us h●b●ntu● quibus peccata n●n imputantur Id. tom. 8. in P●al . ● 18 conc . 3● In the way o● Faith , they are reckoned for no sinners ( and therfore are ●eputed Iust ) who have not their sinnes imputed to them .

This f●ee remissi●n of sinnes he elswhere notably describeth , saying , t t Si texit 〈◊〉 Deus , n●luit adv●●t●re ; si noluit ●dve●●e●e , 〈◊〉 animadverte●e , 〈◊〉 punt●e , noluit 〈◊〉 , malu●t ignoscere Id● s●p●● Ps●l. 31. If God hath covered our sinnes , he will not obs●rve them , he will not thi●ke upon them , to punish them , he will ●ot take knowledge , but rat●er pardon t●em .

It i● cle●re also out of Saint Austine , that there is such impe●fect on in our wo●ks , as tha● they cannot justifie . All our Righteousnesse ( saith he ) u u I●sa 〈◊〉 n●stra 〈…〉 ●it● , ut 〈…〉 remissione●o st●t 〈◊〉 per●e●● 〈◊〉 virtutu●● Id tom 5 de civit . Dei . li. 19. cap. 27. standeth ra●her in the remission of our sinnes , than in any perfection of justice ; and againe , x x V●e et●am laudabil● vitae hominum , si r●mot● misericordi● discutia● eam Id. tom. 1. confess . lib. 9. cap 13. Woe be to the commendablest life we leade ( saith he ) if thou Lord setting thy mercie aside , shoul●st ●xamine it ; but this is our comfort , God dealeth graciously with us , accepting our willing desires , in sted of the worke done , as Saint Paul saith , 2 Cor. 8.12 . and accordingly Saint Austine saith , y y Omnia mandata 〈◊〉 deputantur , quando qu●●q●id non fit ignos●●tu● . Id. to . 1. Retract . lib. 1. cap 19. All the commandements of God are then esteemed to be done , when as that is forgiven , whatsoever is not done .

Of Merit .

Concerning Merits , or the dignity of good workes equall to the Reward , Saint Paul is against it , saying ; z z Ro● . 8.18 . That the suff●rings ( Martyrdomes ) of this prese●t time are not worthy to be compared to the glory that shall b●e revealed in us ; and both Hierome a a ●ieron super Ephes. 2. tom. 9. and Chrysostome b b C●rysost . oper. imperfect in Math Homil 53. alleadge this place against Merit . Leo saith , c c N●que enim de quali 〈…〉 um ●perum 〈…〉 Leo ●erm ● de Assump. 〈…〉 Id. serm ● de Pass . Dom. The measure of coelestiall gifts depends not upon th● quality of workes . Saint Au●tine sai●h , d d No● pro merito quidem 〈◊〉 ●itam ae●ern●m sed ta●tum pro grat●● 〈…〉 ●oan . tract. 3. tom . 9 Thou shalt not receive eternall life for thy merit , but onely for grace . And they speake reason ; for hee that would merit or deserve any thing at another mans hand , must of himselfe e e 〈…〉 Hil●r de T●init lib. 11. by his owne power , doe something , that the other had no former claime unto : now our good workes , inasmuch as they are good , are God● fr●e gifts . Wee are not sufficient to thinke any thing that is good . 2 Cor. 3.5 . It is God that worketh in us both the will and the deed Philip. 2.1 . And Man stands bound to God , either in strict termes of law , or by way of gratitude , as his creature , servant , and sonne , to doe him the uttermost of his service .

My good deeds ( saith Austin ) f f 〈…〉 . Aug. 〈◊〉 . lib 10. cap. 4. ●om 1. are thy ordinances , and thy gifts ; my evill ones● are my sinnes , and thy judgements . Theodoret saith , g g 〈…〉 & 〈◊〉 non mer●●dem sed glor●am vocavit 〈◊〉 quae expectantur . Theod. in Rom. 8. tom 2 Gentiano Herveto interprete . The Crownes doe excell the Fights , the rewards are not to be compar●d with the labours ; for the labour is small and the gaine great that is hoped for ; and therefore t●e Apostle called those things that are looked for , not wages , but glory ( Rom. 8.18 . ) not wages , but grace ( Rom. 6.23 . ) The same Theodoret saith , h h Temporalibus labo●●●us ●terna i● aequilibrio ●on respondent . Id. ●n Rom. 6. vers. ul● . That things eternall doe not answer tempor●ll labours in equall poyze .

Saint Hierome saith , i i

Si nostra considerem●s merita desperandum est . Hieron . lib 17 ●n Isai. cap. 64. to . 5.

Nullum opus dignum Dei justitià reperietur . Idem lib. 6. in Esai . cap. 13.

If wee consider our owne merits , we must despaire : And againe , When the day of judgement or death shall come , all hands shall faile , because no worke shall bee found worthy of the justice of God .

Saint Chrysostome speakes very pathetically , k k

Chrys. tom. 5. de Compunct . Cord. ad Stelech . post ●ed● in Lat. editione .

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Chrysost. de Compunct . Cord. ad Stelechum . tom. 6. edit. Savil. pag. 157.

Etsi millies moriamur , Although ( saith hee ) wee die a thousand deaths , although wee did performe all vertuous actions , yet should wee come short by farre of rendring any thing worthy of those honours which are conferred upon us by God .

Indeed the Lord rewards good workes , but this is out of his bounty , free favour , and grace , and not as of desert . Rom. 4.4 .

In giving the Crowne of Immortality as our reward , God crowneth not our merits , but his owne gifts ; and , when God crowneth our merits ( that is , good deeds ) hee crowneth nothing else but his own gifts , saith l l

Qu●d ergo praemium ●mmorlit it is poste● 〈◊〉 , coronat dona sua , non merita tu● . August . in Ioan. tract. 3. tom. 9.

Cun Deus coronat 〈…〉 , ni●il aliud 〈◊〉 quam . M●nera sua Id. epist. 105. tom. 2.

Saint Augustine . So that God indeed is become our debtour , not by our deserving● but by his owne gracious promise .

God is faithfull , who hath made himselfe our debtour , ( saith Austin ) m m Fidelis Deus qui se postrum debitorem fecit ; ●on aliquid à nobis accipiendo , sed tanta nobis promitendo quicquid promisit , indigmis promisit . Id tom. 3. in Psalm . 100. not by receiving any thing from us , but by promising so great things to us : whatsoever he promised , hee promised to them that were unworthy . In a word , though hee give heaven propter promissum , for his promise sake , and because hee will bee as good as his word , yet it is not propter commissum , for any performance of ours .

This was the doctrine of old , but the Rhemists have taken out a new lesson , saying n n Rhemists Annot. upon Hebr. 6. sect. 4. That good works are meritorious , and the very cause of salvation ; so farre , that God should be unjust , if hee rendred not heaven for the same .

Now by this that hath beene alleadged , the Reader may perceive , that besides diverse other worthies of these times , S. Augustine the honor of this Age , agreeth with us in diverse weighty poynts of religion , as also in the matter of Gods free grace and justification , insomuch as Sixtus Senensis saith , o o D. Augustinus dum toto spiritus ac verbo●um ardore pro defensione Divinae gratiae pugnat advers. Pe●agianos , liberum arbitrium cum 〈◊〉 divinae gratiae ex●oll●ntes , in alteram quasi ●oveam delabi vid●tur minusque interdum tribuere quam par sit liber● hominis voluntati Sixt Senens . in Bibl. Sanctâ lib. 5. in prae●at . Whil'st Saint Austin doth contend earnestly against the Pelagians , for the defence of divine grace , he doth seeme to fall into another pit , and sometimes attributeth too little to Free-will .

And Stapleton saith , p p Vtcunque in hac disputatione modum fortasse excesser●t Augustinus Stapleton . de Iustificat . lib. 2. cap. ult. t●at Austin ( haply ) in his disputation against the Pelagians , went beyond all go●d measure .

PA.

Saint Austin prayed for the dead , to wit , for his mother Monica , desiring God not to enter into judgement with her .

PRO.

What though hee did so ? the Examples of Christians ( which sometimes slip into superstition ) are no rule for to ord●r our life , or devotion thereby .

Besides , if hee prayed for eternall rest , and remission of sinnes to his deceased mother , this was not for that hee doubted shee injoyed them not , or that he feared shee indured any Purgatory paines ; but hee sued for the continuation , accomplishment , and manifestation thereof at the generall resurrection . Yea , even then when he prayed so , hee saith , q q Et credo jam feceris , quod te rogo . Aug. Confes. lib. 9. cap. 13. tom. 1. hee believes that the Lord had granted his request , to wit , that his mother was out of paine , and that God had forgiven her her sinnes : Which argueth , that it was rather a wish , than a Prayer , proceeding more out of affection to her , than any necessity to helpe her by his Prayers , who was then ( as he perswaded himselfe ) in a blessed estate : so that howsoever Saint Austin at first made a kind of prayer for his mother , yet a little after ( as it were repressing himselfe ) he saith , he believeth that shee is in a blessed state .

The Letters of Charles the great unto our Off a King of Mercia , are yet extant ; wherein he wisheth , r r Deprecantes ut pro ●● interaedi jubea●i● , nullam habentes dubitationem , beatam illius anima● in requ●e esse ; sed u● fidem & delectionem nostram ostendamus in amicum charissimum . Carol. Magnus apud Guliel . Malmesbu . d● gest . Reg. Anglor . L 1. c. 4. That intercessions should be made for Pope Adrian then lately deceased ; not having any doubt at all ( saith he ) but that his blessed soule is at rest , but that wee may shew our faithfulnesse and love to our most deare friend .

In a word , Saint Austin's prayer was not ( as Popish prayers now a dayes are made ) with reference to Purgatory ; and therefore it makes nothing against us .

PAP .

Did not Saint Austine hold Purgatory ?

PRO.

That some such thing should be after this life , it is not ( saith he ) s s Tale aliq●id etiam post h●n● vitam 〈◊〉 , incredibile non est 〈◊〉 ut ●●m ita sit 〈…〉 , ●t aut taveniri aut la●cre . Aug. in En●hi●id . cap. ●● tom. 3. incred●ble , and whether it be so it may be i●quired , and either be found , or remaine hidden . In another place he leaveth it uncertaine , t t Siv● ib● tan●um , sive et hic ●● ibi ; sive ●deo hic , ut non ●●i , sae●ularia q●●mvis a 〈◊〉 ne ven●alt● ) 〈◊〉 ig●em transi●o●iae tribulati●●●●nveniant , non ●●d●guo quia so●sitan verum est . Aug. de C●vit . De●l . 21. c. 26. & de Fide & oper. c. 16. tom. 4. Whether onely in this life men suffer , or whether there follow some such temporall judgements after this life , so that Saint Austine saith , it is not incredible , and it may be disputed whether it bee so , and perhaps it is so : words of doubting , and not of asleveration , but in other places he gives such reasons as overthrow it . u u Tertium penitus ignorantus , im●● nec esse in Scriptures Sanctis invenimus . Aug. Hypog . l. 5. to 7 The Catholike Faith ( saith he ) resting upon divine authority , believes the first place , the kingdome of heaven , and the second hell , a third wee are wholly ignorant of ; yea wee shall finde in the Scriptures that it is not . Neither speakes he onely of places eternall that are to continue for ever ; besides , he there purposely disputes against Limbus Pucrorum , and rejects all temporary places , not acknowledging any other third place , and elsewhere he saith , x x Nec est ullus ulli medius locus , ut p●ss●t esse nisi cum D●●bolo qui non 〈◊〉 cum ●hri●to . Aug de 〈◊〉 mer●● & ●●miss . ● . 1. c. 28. Habent gaudium 〈◊〉 & m●l● to m●ntum Id. in Ioan . ●ract 49. tom. 9. There is no middle place , hee must needes bee with the devill , that is not with Christ ; and againe , y y In 〈◊〉 e●um quemque 〈…〉 , in hoc cum com●rehendet mundi nov●ssimus d●es Id epist. ●0 . Where every mans owne last day finds him , therein the world's last day w●ll hold him . Thus farre Saint Austine according to the Scriptures , which acknowledges but two sorts of people , Children of the kingdome , and children of the wicked ; faithfull and unfaithfull , M●th. 13.38 . And accordingly two places after this life , Heaven and Hell , Luke 16.23 . Mark . 16.16 . Neither doth the Scrip●ure any where mention any temporary fire after this life ; the fire it speakes of , is everlasting and unquenchable , z z M●t. 18 8● & 3.12 . and so doth Austine take it ; a a Non da●o quod non 〈◊〉 ; ignem 〈…〉 8. Aug. in Psal. 80 and as for that fi●e which Saint Paul mentions , 1 Cor 3.15 . It is not a Purgatory , but a Probatorie fire .

PA.

Master Brerely hath set forth Saint Austines Religion , agreeble to ours .

PRO.

The Learned on our side have confuted him ; c c See Saint Austins Summes by M● Cromp●on . and have prooved out of Saint Austines undoubted writings , that he agreed with the Church of England in the maine poynts of Faith and Doctrine .

And so I come from Fathers , to Councels , and first to the sixth African Councel , held at Carthage , and another at Milevis ; both which denied Appeales to Rome . Now the case was this ; Apiarius a Priest of Africa , was for his scandalous life excommunicated d d Ap●a●ium , loci is●ius Episcopus , quampiam ob causam à c●●tu ●idelium exclusit , ●und●mque Synodus exauctoravit , q●em Sozimus Papa ad se conjugtentem , causamque ibi probant●m absolvit , & cum literis ad Synodum ●em●ssum recipi imperavit . Binnius in Concil African sextum tom. 3 concil O●cum . 8. act. 6. p. 867. edit. Colon. 1606. by Vrban his Dioc●san , and by an African Synod : Apiarius thus censured , fled to Pope Zozimus , who restored him to his place , & absolved him , & this he did , pretending that some Canon of the Nicen Councell had established Appeales from other places to Rome : the Bishops of Africa , not yielding too hastie credit to this allegation , debated the matter with Pope Zozimus and his successors , Boniface and Celestine for the space of foure or five yeares together , at length , e e In Co●cilijs verioribus qu●e accip●u●tur Nic●●na●a S. Cyril . Alexan. Ecclsiae et ● venerabili Attico Constantinopol . Antistite miss●● — in quibus tale aliquid non potuimus r●p●●●re . Binn . in Conc. Charth . 6. c. 105. p. 646. tom . 1. Sed nunquam in Concilio Niceno in L●tini● Codicib● legimus — in nullo Codice Graeco ea potu●mus inv●ni●e . Id. Ibid. cap. 101 pag. 64● col. 2. when the true and authentical copies of the Nicen Councell were searched by Cyril Patriarke of Alexandria , and Atticus Bishop of Constantinople , and that neither in the Greeke nor Latine copies , this Canon touching Appeales to Rome could be found ; then the African Bishops told the Pope that he should not meddle with the causes of men in their Province , nor receive any such to Communion as they had excommunicated . For the Councel of Nice , ( say they ) f f Decreta Nic●●na prudentiss●mè justiss●m●que p●oviderunt , quaecu●que negotia in suis locis , ubi o●ta sunt , ●inienda . Id. Ibid. ca. 105. pag 646. Did consider wisely and uprightly that all matters ought to be determined in the places in which they began . Chiefly sith it is lawfull for any , if he like not the sentence of his Iudges , to appeale to the Synods of his owne province , yea , or farther also to a generall Synod : to wit , of the Dioces g g By [ Vnive●sall ] is meant a Synod of the Diocese and not of the whole World . Conc. Constan●inop . Can 6. ; Vnlesse there be any perhaps , h h Nisi fortè quispiam est qui credat , unicuilibet posse Deum nostrum examini● inspira●e justitiam , et innumerabilibus congregatis in Concilium Sacerdotibus denegare — nam ut aliqui tanquam à tuae sanctitatis la●ere mi●tantur , rulla inven●mus P●trum Synodo , ne fumosum typh●● saecu●i in Eccl●si●m Christi vid●amur inducere . Binn . qu● sup●à cap 105. Concil Carthag . pag. 646. who will imagine that God would inspire the triall of right into one man , and denie it to a great number of Bishops assembled in a Synod : and so going forward with proofe , that the Pope ought not to judge their causes , either at Rome himselfe , or by his Legates sent from Rome ; they touched his attempt in modest sort , but at the quicke , Condemning it of pride , and smoakie statelinesse of the world .

Reply .

It may be ( saith Master Brerely ) Pro● Apology , tract. 1. sect. 7 subd. 2. that the Arrian Heretikes had corrupted the Nicen Councel , and therefore this Canon which the Pope alleadged could not bee found there .

Answer .

Had this pr●t●nded Canon made ought against Christ's Divin●tie , we might have suspected the Arrians to have corrupted it , if they could ; but this concerned the Pop●s ju●isd●ction in matter of Appeale , and trench'd not upon the Ar●ians tenet .

Reply .

Perhaps , the Pope when hee alleadged the Nicen Councel , meant the Sardican Councel , k k Bellar li 2 de R●m . 〈…〉 . 25 & 〈◊〉 quo suprà . wherein it was decreed , That they in Af●icke might appeale to Rome .

Answer .

The African Fathers say , l l In null● in●enimus p●trum Synodo . Con● . Carthag . cap. ●05 . They could not meet with this pr●tend●d Canon in any Synodall of the Fathers , and therefore neither in the Nice● nor Sardican Councell , nor any other that could binde the whole Church . Besides , Saint Austin who was a principall actour in these African Councells , and subscribed to them m m Subs●ripserunt Ali●i●● Au●ust●●us et ●aeteri Epi●copi 217. Concil. Ca●thagin . ca 101. , hee was not ignorant of the Catholicke Sardican Councell ; for as Binius observes , n n Hoc concilium O●cume 〈…〉 ab A●gustino epist 162. plenarium universae 〈◊〉 Con●ilium . 〈◊〉 . no● . in C●nc●l . Sardi● §. 〈◊〉 tom. 1. S Austin in his 162 Epistle calls it a plenary or full Councell of the whole Church ; neither indeed cou'd S. Austin be ignorant therof , inasmch as he rea● diligently the acts and decrees of every Councell , and search●d all Registries , by reason of the many conflicts hee had with Heretickes , saith Baronius o o Omnia ●portuit Concilia 〈…〉 Baron . ad an. 347 〈◊〉 . 74. . Neither could t●e Afric●n Bishops b●e possibly ignorant of this Sardican Councell , inasmuch as some thirty sixe of them were present at it , p p 〈…〉 2 p●g . 407 and subscribed to it , together with Gratus Primate of Carthage . Besides , it was yet within their memory , being held q q 〈…〉 3●7 . B●ron ●od . ann● nu● 1. 〈…〉 an. 4●4 Ba●on . & Catholic●m Sa●di●ense habit ●n suit , 〈…〉 tum est A●i●anum . Bar. ann. 347. little above fourscore yeares before this African Councell : neither could they be ignorant of the Decrees of that Councell , inasmuch as they were wont to bring a Copie of such Decrees as were agreed upon in generall Councells , as themselves say , r r Conc. Carth. 6. ca. ● . that Caecillianus brought with him the Decrees enacted at Nice , at which hee was present . Now if they knew this Sardican Councell , and the Decrees thereof , and yet knew no such Decree therein for Appealing from Africke to Rome , it followeth that the Pop●s preten●ed Canon for Appeales was no Canon of the holy Sardican Councell , and is therefore justly suspected to be forged by some of the Popes Factours , who would gladly have brought all the G●iest to his Mill , and the maine Sutes of Christendome unto his Court and Consistory .

Reply .

Bellarmine saith , s s Bellar. lib. 2● de Rom. Pont. cap. 24. that the Decree forbad onely the Priests , and inferiour sort of the Cleargie to appeale to Rome , but not the Bishops .

Answer .

This is an idle allegation ; for the African Bishops provided for the conveniencie of their Priests and Cleargie , to hinder them from vexatious cou●se● , and wastfull expences in the poynt of Appeale , by saving them from unnecessary travailes beyond the Sea ; and therefore they intended much more , that they themselves should b●e freed .

Besides , the Decree runs generally , and forbids all sorts of Apellants , from Africke to Rome , as well Bishops as others : the tenour of the decree is this : t t Quod si ab eis ( id ●st Epis●opis vi●ini ) provo●ādum put●verint , non provocent nisi ad Africana Con●●●ia , & ad Primates pro●inci●rum s●●rum , a● t●ansmarina autem qui put●verit appelland●● , ● nullo 〈◊〉 ●●ricam in Communione 〈◊〉 . Con●il . 〈…〉 pag. 〈…〉 pa. 6●3 .

It was thought good , that Priests , Deacons or other inferior Clerks , if in their causes they complaine of the judgements of their Bishops , and if they Appeale from them , they shall not Appeale but to the African Councels , or to the Primates of their Povinces ; but if any shall thinke that he ought to Ap●peale beyond the Sea ( meaning to Rome ) let him not be received any longer into the Communion of the Church of Africke .

Binnius tells us , u u In hoc concilio , non jus appeland● ad Sedem Apostolicam sed tantum modum p●osequend● appellationis per Legatos a Latere , controve●sum ●uis●e , a●t Binnius in Con● . C●rch●g . 6. ●om. 1. pag 619. that the question was not about the right of Appealing to the See of Rome , but de modo , touching the manner of the Popes admitting Appeales , of prosecuting and deciding complaints by his Legates , â latere ; but the decree forbids Appeales from Africke to Rome , and condemnes not onely the manner , but the matter it selfe .

Objection .

You say Saint Austine opposed the Pope ; but he was in good savour with x x Bonifacio 〈…〉 Bellar. 〈…〉 Pont cap. 25. 〈…〉 Augustinus . Zozimus , Boniface , and Celestine .

Answer .

Saint Austine kept good termes with the Bishops of Rome , y y Augustini ●pist. 90. ad Boni●ac Papam . and he had reason for it ; because they were great Patriarkes , and he had occasion to use their helpe and countenance , for quelling the Pelagian Heretikes and others ; and yet notwithstanding when their factors began to usurpe jurisdiction over other Churches , then hee might stand for the right of his African Churches , and give his vote freely in the Councel .

And thus we have found opposition made to the See of Rome by a whole nationall Councel , in the weighty poynt of Appeales ; for so Bellarmine makes appealing to Rome , and not Appealing from thence , a maine proofe of the Popes supremacie . Appellatio est certissunum Argumentum prin●●p●tus Bell. li 2. de Rom Po●t . cap. 21.

Now to proceede , about the yeare foure hundred thirtie and one , was the third generall Councell held at Ephesus , against the Nestorian heresie which divided Christ into two persons ; it was summoned , not by the Pope but by the Emperour Theodosius the younger , At his becke , and by his command . a a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ● authorit●tate ac nutu Theolos●● cogeb●tur . E●agr . hist. lib. 1 cap. 3.

In the yeare foure hundred fiftie and one , the fourth generall Councel was held at Chalcedon , against Eutyches , ( who in opposition to Nestorius ) confounded the natures of Christ , making of two distinct natures , his humane and divine , but one nature ; whereas Nestorius rent is ●under his person , making two of one ; this Councel was called not by the Pope , b b Sacerdotes Chal●edon●m venerunt ●uxta nostra prae●epta . Concil. Chale . apud B●n . tom. 2. act. 3. pag. 84. but by the Emperours Edict : it was first called at Nice and then recalled from thence , and removed to Chalcedon , wholly by the disposing of the Emperour ; yea , Leo Bishop of Rome , wrote to the Emperour instantly beseeching him , to call it in Italie : all the Priests ( saith he ) c c Omnes mansuetud●nē vestram cum gemitibus & lac●rimis supplicant Sacerdotes g●neral●m Synodum jubeatis intra Italiam celebrari . Leo Epist. 23. doe beseech your clemencie with sighes and teares , that you would command a generall Councel to be celebrated in Italy . But their request was denied ; it was held at Chalcedon for the ease of the Bishops of Asia : Leo could not have it where hee would , but where and when the Emperour appointed ; and Leo was glad to send his deputies thither .

Reply .

The Emperours summoned Councels , but by the Popes consent . d d Dico nullum Concilium generale Catholicum ● solo Imperatore indictum , id est , sine consensu & authoritate Rom●ni Ponti●icis . Bell. lib. 1● de Concil. cap. 13. § Ad h●c .

Answer .

It is true indeed , that the Popes consent was to these a●cient Councells , but no otherwise than as the consent of other chiefe Bishops ; they consented because they could not chuse , because they resolved to bee obedient , but they could not appoynt either place , or time .

To proceed ; This famous Councell of Chalcedon renewed and ratifyed the Canon of the second General Councell held at Constantinople● and accordingly ( following their example ) gave the Bishop of Constantinople equall priviledges with the Bishop of Rome . The tenour of their decree runneth thus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Synod Chalced . act. 16 can 28. pa. 350. in editione ●ilij . Our fathers have very rightly given the preheminence to the See of ancient Rome , because the City was the seate of the Empire ; and wee moved with the same reasons have transferred the same preheminence to the s●at of New Rome ( that is to say Constantinople ) thinking it reason that the City honoured with the Empire , and with the presence of the Senate , and injoying the same priviledges as Ancient Rome , being the seat of the Empire , did ; and being after it the next should in matters Ecclesiasticall have equall advancement .

Here wee see the reason which the Councell gives why Rome had the first place , was not because it was so ordained by Gods law , jure divino * * Supponi● , quod Romana sedes tunc primatum habere me●uerit , cum Romani or●is imperio potirentur atque adeo non divino , sed huma●o jure caput Eccle●inum effecta suerit . Not. Binn●j in Conc. Chal. act. 15 p●g. 180. tom. 2. , or in Saint Peters right ; but by the cosent and constitutions of men , because Rome was sometime the imperiall seat ; and the seat being thence translated to Constantinople , upon the same reason Constantinople was made equall with Rome .

Reply .

The Popes Legats protested against this A Leg●t● Ponti●icis ●●●l●matum est . B●lla●m . lib. 2 de Rom Pon● . cap. 18. § 〈◊〉 . Ca●on you alleadge .

Answer .

It is a rule in law ; g g Est autem 〈◊〉 ●ecr●●um ●oncilij 〈…〉 a m●j●r● part● . Bel. li 2 de ●oncil . c 11 § At 〈◊〉 lib. ● tit. 17. de Reg. Iu●●s 160. That is accounted the act of all , which is publikely done by the greater part , by the most voyces ; otherwise there would bee no judgement given , because some perverse ones would still dissent . Now all the Councell , save onely the Popes Legates , consented upon the Canon ; and they were to be ruled by ●he major part of the Councells votes : neither doe we finde that anciently the Pope had a negative or casting voyce in Councels ; and therefore the Chalcedon Councell notwithstanding the Legates opposition , professeth , h h Haec omnes dicimus , haec om●ibus placent . Con●●l . C●alced . apud Bin. act. 16. pag 137. tom. 2. Hae● omnes dicimus , this is all our vote , and Tota Synodus , i i Et ●ota Synodus appr●havit . Ibid. the whole Councell hath confirmed this Canon for the honour of the S●● of Constantinople . And accordingly the whole k k R●latio Synodi ad Leonem p●st C●ncil . Chalced. ●ct . 16. p. 14● . Councell wrote to Pope Leo.

Why bu● the Popes Legat●s approoved it not , l l Contra●ic●io nos●ra 〈…〉 . Ibid. pag. ●37 . they contradicted it . True , in this particular they dissented . But because they as al other Bps , even Pope Leo himselfe , consented un●o that generall Maxime , That the judgement of the greater part shall stand for the judgement of the whole Councell● in that generall both the Legates of Leo , and Leo himselfe , did implicitè , and virtually consent to that very Canon , from which actually and explicitè they did then dissent . For which cause , the most prudent Iudges truely said , Tota Synodus , the who●e Councell hath approved this Canon ; either explicitè or implicitè , either expressely or virtually approved it . Yea the whole Councell professed the same , and that even in the Synodall relation of their Acts to Pope Leo , saying : Wee have confirmed the Canon of the second Councell for the honour of the See of Constantinople ; declaring evidently that Act of approving that Canon to be the Act of the whole Synod , although they knew the Pope and his Legates contradicted it , as my learned kinsman Doctor Crakanthorpe hath well observed . m m Doctor Crakanthorp of the fift general Councell . chap 18. sect. 29.

In a word , what though the Popes Legates were absent at the making of this Act , because they would not bee present , and when they were present disclaimed it ? the major part of the Synodall voyces carryed it ; and so the Decree passed , and was afterwards confirmed by the sixth Generall Councell .

Reply .

The Canon which equalleth the Patriarke of Constantinople to the Bishop of Rome makes not against us , since it was not confirmed by the Pope , who onely confirmed such n n Leo scribit , se Concilium illud app●obasse solùm quantum ad explicationem Fidei . Leo Epist. 59. ad Concil. Chalced. Bellar. li. 2. de Rom. Pont. cap. 22. § secundo . Canons as concerned matters of Faith . Now Councells are not of force till the Pope ratifie them . o o Conciliorum Iudicium tum demum firmum est cum accesserit Romani Pontificis confirmatio . Id. ibid. lib. 4. cap. 1. §. Sed.

Answer .

By this reason you will make the Popes supremacie no Article of Faith ; And what though Leo opposed the Canon , yet as Cardinall Cusanus saith , p p Sed ita usus obtinuit longo tempore . Cusan . conco●d . Cathol. li. 1. ca. 16. Vse and custome carryed it against the Pope .

Besides , a Councel may be approved , though the Pope approve it not ; and so was the second generall Councel called against the Macedonian Heretikes and others ; it was held by the Catholike Church a lawfull generall Councel , though none of the Popes before Gregories time approved it , for Gregorie speaking of the Canons of that Councel , sayth , q q Et Canones quidem Constantinopolitani Concilij Eudoxianos damnant ; sed quis fuerit eorum author Eud●xius , minimè dicunt . Romana autem ecclesia ●osdem Canones vel gesta Synodi illius hactenus non habet , nec accipit ; in hoc autem eandem Synodum accepit , quod est per eam contrà Macedonium definitum . Greg. Epist. l. 6 indict . 15. epist. 31. Eosdem Canones , vel gesta Synodi illius , hactenus non habet , nec accipit , the Romane Church neither hath , nor approveth those Canons or Acts ; so that the Romane Church , untill Gregories time , neither approved the Canons nor Acts of that second generall Councel . And that is it , which Gregory intendeth , saying , hastenus non habet nec accipit , not meaning that till the yeare wherein he writ that Epis●le ; for himselfe before professed , r r Et 〈…〉 Synod●s 〈…〉 Id ●p l●b 2 ●●dict . 1● . 〈…〉 . to embrace that s●cond Councel a● one of the foure Evangelists : but untill Gregories time , hactenus , untill this age , wherein I live , w●s the second Councel , the Canons or Acts thereof , not ha● nor approved by the Romane Chu●ch ; and yet all this time , it was held an approved Synod ; as the same D. Crakanthorpe hath observed . s s Dr. 〈◊〉 of 〈…〉 18. 〈◊〉 2● .

Question .

Had not the Bishop of Rome the priority ?

Answer .

He ha● a priority of Order , Honour , or Place before others ; but not of Iurisdiction over and above others ; but even as Ambassadors take place one of another , yet have no dominion one over another .

Question .

Was not Rome highly esteemed of old ?

Answer .

Old Rome was highly esteemed . First , because the●e the Apostles taught , and Rome professed the true Faith , and divers of her Bishops were Martyrs .

Secondly , because Rome was sometime the chiefe seat of the Empire , and so the chiefe City had a chiefe Bishop .

Thirdly , because the Easterne or Greeke Church was often at odds , the dissention ; the●efore such as were distressed had their recou●se for Councel and helpe , to the Patriarke of the West , the Bishop of Rome , an● this made him much r●spected ; and her bishops with●ll being Godly men , and in good favour with the Empe●ou●s , they of●en times ●elieved such as were distressed : thus Iul●us bishop of Rome helped the banished Athanasius : for these , and the like respects the Fathers sp●ke reve●ently of Rome , as she was in diebus illis , in their time . But what is this to Rome in her corrup● es●ate ? whil●s the Pope challengeth to himselfe infalibility of judgement , and not content with the primacie which his auncestors held , this Romane Dio●rephes se●kes preheminence , affecting not only an Hierarchie in the Church , but a Monarchy over the whole Church , as if Saint Peter ( whose successour he pretends to be ) had h●ld the Apostolike chayre , as it we●e in Fee , for him and his Successours for ever , and the other eleven had held thei●s for terme of life onely .

And now to looke hom●wa●ds to our Britaine : in this Age we find our au●cestors , besides their common enemies the Scots , Picts , and Saxons , troubled with another more secret , but as dangerous , to wi● , the Pelagian heresie , wherewith Pelagius ( a Romane Monke , borne in Little Britaine ) with his Disciple Celestius , beganne to infect these Northerne parts . But after they , and their heresies were condemned in the Councels of Carthage and Mela , Pope Celestine sent Palladius into Scotland , as also our neighbours the French bishops ( at the request of the Catholique English ) s●nt y y Sanctio . Germanus in Britanniam ven●● & pelagia●am hae●●si● p●o●●iga●it M●th . Westmon . ad ann. 446. Germanus bishop of A●xerre , and Lupus bishop of Troys in Champeigne , into England , to beat downe Pelagianisme , which they happily suppressed .

Now also there was a Provinciall Councel z z Master Speeds Historie . lib. 6. cap. 9. held in Britaine , for the reforming of Religion , and repairing of the ruin'd Churches , which the Pagan marriage of Vortiger had decayed , to the great gri●fe of the people . A plaine token that their zeale continued ev●n unto those day●s : for so it was , whiles Vortiger a British Prince marryed with the fayre but Infidel Rowena , Hengists daughter , this Saxon match had almost undone both Church and State , whilest ( as a a Beda Histor. Anglor . lib. 1. cap. 15. Bede complaines ) Priest's were slaine standing at the Altar , and bishops with th●ir flocks we●e murdered ; till at length , they assembled a Councel to repayre those decayes which this marriage had made .

Now to close up this Age , the Reader may observe that we have surveyed the first foure Generall Councels , which Gregorie the Great b b Greg. ep l. 2. ind●ct 11 ep. 10. Savino ●ubdi●●o●o . & lib 1. Epistola● . indict. 9. epist 24. pro●essed that he ●mbraced as the foure Gospels : and indeed they were called ag●inst those foure Arch-heretickes that pestered the C●urch : the first was h●ld at Nice , against Arrius a Pri●st of Al●xandria , who held that Christ was neither God , nor eternall , but an excellent creature , created before all creatures . The second at Constantinople , against Macedonius , who held , that Christ was not of the same essence ; not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , consubstantiall , and of the same substance , with the Father , but onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 like to him ; and that the Holy Ghost was not God , but Gods Minister , and a creature not eternall . The third at Eph●su● against Nestorius , who held , that Christ had two severall persons , but not two wills ; c c Cum Ecclesia distra●eretur . & pars Mariam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Hominiparam , pars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 D●iparam nominand●m a●●irmarent , Nestorius , voc●m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , qu● Maria appell●retur , ●xcogitavit . Evage . Histor. Ecclesiast. lib. 1 cap. 7. and that the Virgin Mary was not to be called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the mother of God , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the Mother of Christ . The fourth at Chalcedon , where Dioscorus , and Eutyches were condemned . This Eutyches ( confuting Nestorius ) fell into other heresies , and confounded the two natures of Christ , making him ( after his union ) to have but the divine nature onely .

Besides , the Reader may farther observe , that upon the survey of these first foure Generall Councells ( so much esteemed by S. Gregory ) it is found , that they confined the bishop of Rome to his bounds , with other Patriarkes ; and they equalled other Patriarchall Seas to the Romane : so that hereby is discovered the vanity of Campian's flourish , saying , d d Concilia generalia mea sunt ; primum , ultimum m●●ia . ●amp . Rat. 4. Generall Councells are all ours , the first , and the last , and the middle . For we imbrace such Generall Councells as were held in those golden Ages , within the first sixe hund●ed yeares , or thereabouts .

The middle ranke , beginning at the second Nicene , unto the Councell of Florence , held in the Ages of the mingled and confused Church , they are neither wholly theirs , nor ours .

The two last , the one at Lateran , the other at Tr●nt , these ( being held by the drosse of the Church ) are theirs .

AN APPENDIX to the fi●th CENTVRIE . Of the Fathers Authoritie .
PAPIST .

YOu have produced the Fathers for these five or sixe hundred yeares , as if they had beene of your Faith ; whereas you dissent from th●m , a a B●lla●● de notis Eccles. c●p. 9. and refuse their tryall : but wee honour them , and appeale to the joynt co●sent of An●iquity .

PROTESTANT .

Where wee se●me to vary from them , it is eith●r in things humane , arbitrarie and indifferent , or in matters not fully discussed by the ancient , or in poynts which were not delivered by joynt consent of the ancient , or in things which are reproved by plaine demonstration of holy Scripture , and wherein the Fathers permit liberty of dissenting , and the Papists thems●lves usually take it . Neither would Saint Austine b b Neminem velim sic amplec●i mea omnia , ut me sequatur , nisi in eis quibus me non errare perspexerit . Aug de persever . Sanct. cap. 21 tom. 7. ( the fai●est flower of Antiquity ) have his Reader follow him farther than hee followeth the Truth , not denying but that as in his maners , so in his writings many things might justly be c c Multa ●sse in opusculis meis quae ●ossunt justo judicio culpari . Id. de orig. anim● cap. 1. tom. 7. taxed .

Neither doe we refuse the triall of the Fathers , truely alleadged , and rightly understood , witnesse the challenge made by Bishop Iewell d d Master Iew●ls Sermon at Pauls Crosse. , and seconded by Doctor Whitaker e e W●itak●r in 〈◊〉 Rat. 5 Camp . , and Doctor Featly ; yea , Doctor Whitaker f f T●ti ad nostras partes pervolant . Id. ibid. ( as Scultetus observeth ) g g Patres in maximis judicijs toti sunt nostri , in le●ioribus varij , in paucissimis ac minutissimis vestri . Scultetus in Medullae Patr. parte 2. c. 15. p. 140. was confident , That the Fathers , although in some matters they be variable , and partly theirs , partly ours , yet in the materiall poynts they be wholly ours , and theirs in matters of lesser moment , and some few Tenets . Likewise , that great light of Oxford Doctor Reinolds , in his Conference with Master Hart , solemnely protested , h h Conference with Hart. chap. 8. divis. 6. that in his opinion not one of all the Fathers was a Papist ; for ( saith he ) The very being and essence of a Papist consists in the opinion of the Popes supremacie ; but the Popes supremacie was not allowed by any of the Fathers , as he there proveth against Hart : not one then of all the Fathers was a Papist .

PA.

May wee not ground our Faith upon the Fathers Testimonies ?

PRO.

Wee reverence the ancient Fathers , but still with reservation of the respect wee owe to that Ancient of dayes , Daniel 7.6 . their father and ours , who taught young Elihu , Iob. 32.6 . to reprove his Ancients , even holy Iob amongst them , Iob 33.12 . him alone doe we acknowledge for the father of our Faith , on whom wee may safely ground in things that are to bee believed . For every Article of Christian Faith must bee grounded on divine revelation i i Audi dicit Dominus , non dicit aut Ambrosius , aut Augustinus , sed dicit Dom●nus . August . Epist. 48 tom. 2. ; but all opinions of the Fathers are not divine revelations , neither doe the Fathers challenge to themselves infallibility of judgement . S●int Austine saith , k k 〈…〉 Au●ust . Epist. 19. This reverence and honour have I learnt to give to those Bookes of Scripture onely , which are called Canonicall , that I most firmely believe none of their Authors could any whit erre in writing : But others I so reade , that with how great sanctity and learning soever they doe excell , I therefore thinke not any thing to be true , because they s● thought it ; but because they were able to perswade me , either by those Canonicall Authours , or by some prob●ble reason , that it did not swerve from truth .

Neither doe our Adversaries yield inf●llibil●ty of judgement t● the Fathers ; Baronius saith , l l 〈…〉 34. The Church doth not alwayes , and in all things follow the Fathers interpretation of Scripture . Bellarmine saith m m 〈…〉 c. 12. § R●●p●nd●o . Their writings are no rules of Faith , neither have they authority to binde . Canus tells us , n n Reliqui ve●ò scriptores inferiores & human● sunt deficiuntque interdum , ac monstrum quandoque pariunt . Canus loc. Theol. l. 7. c. 3. nu. 7. That the ancient Fathers sometime erre , and against the ordinary course of nature bring forth a monster . And it may bee some of the well-gifted moderne Doctors may see as farre as some of the ancient . Friar Stella , though it bee farre from him to condemne the common exposition given by the ancient holy Doctors , Yet I know full well ( saith he o o Bene tamen scimus Pygmeos Gigantum humeri● impo●itos , plusquam ipsos Gigantes videre . Stella ●narr●t . in Luc. cap. 10. p. 15. to . 2. super illa verba , Consiteor ●ibi Pater . that Pygmeis being put upon Gyants shoulders , doe see farther than the Gyants themselves . Neither doe wee speake this , as if wee refused the tryall of Fathers , but partly to bring the matter to a shorter issue , and partly to give the word of God ( the foundation p p Ephes. 2.20 . on which wee build our faith ) it 's due ; for we doe usuall● produce the Fathers testimonies , thereby to shew our consent with the ancient Church .

PA.

Will you charge the Fathers with errour ?

PRO.

The Fathers being but men have erred through oversight and affection .

Saint Cyprian , and a whole Councell with him ●rred in the point of Rebaptization , q q Cyprian in epist. 73. ad Iubian . tom. 1. whiles through too much hatred of Heretickes , they condemned the Baptisme of Heretickes as unlawfull , and would have them baptized anew .

Origen , r r Misericordi●r suit O●igines , qui & ipsum Diabolum , atque Angel●s ejus post graviora pro Meriti● & diuturniora supplicia , ex illi● cruciatibus eruendos , atque sociandos S. Angelis cr●didit . Aug. de Civit Dei lib. 21. cap. 17. tom. 5. & ibid. c. 24. Origen in his booke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , held this opinion . through too much compassion of the wicked , thought that the Devills themselves should bee saved at length .

Tertullian through spite of the Romane Cleargie , revolted to the Montanists , s s Hoc etiam Paracletus commendavit . Tertul. de Animâ . cap. ult. and was taken up with their idle Prophecies and revelations .

Divers of the Fathers were tainted with the errour of the Chiliasts , or Millenaries , t t Sixt. Senens . Biblioth. lib. 5. annot. 233. mistaken herein in that they thought that Christians af●er the Resurrection should raigne a thousand yeares with Christ upon the earth , and there should marry wives , beget children , eate , drinke , and live in corporall delights ; which errour , though flatly repugnant to the Scriptures , ( which say u u Matt● . 22 30. & 1. thessal . 4.17 . that in the Resurrection , they neither marry , nor are given in marriag● , but are as the Angels in heaven ) they fell into ; part●y by conf●unding the first , and second Resurrection , Revel. 20.5 . and par●ly , by taking that carnally , which was mystically meant in the Revelations , Revel. 21.10 . and 22.2 .

Besides , the Fathers in the exposition of Scripture , doe of●entimes differ each from other , as Sixtus Senensis hath observed in his Bibliothecâ . lib. 5.

PA.

Though particular Fathers doe erre in some things ; yet the body of them is ●ound ; now we are bound to b b B●lla Pl● 4. super formà Iuram . interpret the Scripture according to the joynt consent of the Fathers .

PRO.

You have forfeited your bond , for in the division of the ten cō●andements ( to conceale your Idolatry touching Image worship forbidden in the second ) you goe against the streame of antiquitie , the learned Iewes , the Fathers Greeke and Latine , for though Saint Austin , August . quest. 71. in Exo● . tom 4. in respect of the mystery of the blessed Trinitie , placed three commandements in the first table , and seaven in the later , yet there be a dozen of the Ancients that divide them as we doe ; namely , the Hebrewes , as Philo c c Philo Iud●eus in libro de Decalogo . , and Iosespus shew d d Ioseph Antiquit. Iudaic . lib. 3. ; and amongst the Grecians , Gregorie Nazianzene Greg. N●zianzen . in Carm. ●5 . in D●●alog , Origen f f Origenes in Ex●d . Homil. 8 tom. 1. , Athanasius g g At●anas in Synopsi ● Scripturae tom 4. , Chrysostome h h Author Oper●● imper●ecti in Math. Homil. ●9 . , or whosoever was the Author of the worke unperfit upon Mathew ; amongst the Latines , S. Ambrose i i Ambros in Epist. ad Ephes. cap ● . tom . 5. , S Hierome k k Hie●on i● 6. cap ep ad ●phe● , and one more ancient then they both , to wit , l l August . qu●st● vet & 〈…〉 7. tom. 4. the Author of the questions of the old and new Testament , going under Saint Austins name . And for Historian● , Sulpitius Severus , in his sacred Historie m m Sup Severus Sacr●e 〈◊〉 lib. 1 cap 16. , and Zonaras in his Annals n n Zo●●ras Arnal tom 1 , they be of the same mind ; where is now your submission to the joynt consent of the Fathers ?

In like sort , you hold o o 〈◊〉 Trid. 〈◊〉 5. 〈…〉 orig. & 〈◊〉 6. de ●ustif . can. 23. that the blessed Virgin was free from all spot of Originall sinne● and yet the Scripture sayth , That in Adam all have sinned , Rom. 5.12 . and your owne man Melchior Canus produceth seventeene Fathers to the contrary : p p Sancti omnes qui in ejus rei m●moriam inciderunt uno 〈◊〉 asseverarunt , Betam virginem in peccato originali conceptam . Mel. Canus loc. Theol. l 7. c. 1. Sancti omnes , all the holy Fathers , that have mentioned this matter , ( uno ore ) with one consent affirme , the blessed Virgin to have beene conceived in Originall sinne . And yet these be the men that crake of the unanimous consent of Fathers , that the Fathers are as sure to them , q q Patr●s tam sunt nostri quam Gregorius decimus tertius . Camp. rat . 5 as Gregory the thirteenth is a loving Father to his children of the Church . The truth is , whatsoever they say of the Fathers to dazel the peoples eyes withall they use them as Merchants doe their Counters , sometimes standing for pence , sometime for pounds , even as they be next and readiest at hand , to make up their accounts ; neither are they farther entertained , then they favour the keyes and authority of the Church , saith Duraeus r r Neque enim Patres censentur , cum ●uum aliquid , quod ab Ec●l si● non acceperunt , vel scribunt , vel d●cent . Du●aeus Resp. ad Whit. 〈◊〉 rat. 5. p. 140. ; now by the Church he meanes the Roman Church . And Grets●r saith , s s E●tenus , non Pater sed vitricus , non Doctor , sed seductor est . Gretser de jure p●ohibendi libros . lib. 2. cap. 10 pag 328. that if the Fathers teach otherwise than the Church , ( namely the Roman Church ) then they bee not Fathers , but step-fathers : not Doctours , but Seducers . Cornelius Mus the Bishop of Bitonto sayth , t t Ego● ut ingenue fatear plus vni summo Pontifici creder●m in his quae fidei Myst●ria tangunt , quam mille Augustinis , Hieron●m● , G●egorijs ne dicam Richardis , Scoti● , Gulielm● . C●rnel . Musso . Comment. in Rom. c. 14. pag 606. That in points of Faith , he giveth more cre●it to the Pope , than to a thousand Austines , Hieromes , Gregories ; and yet these be the men that cry up the Fathe●s . Now if the Fathers make so much for them , or they of the Fathers ; how is it that they corrupt the writings of the true Fathers , and devise such sleights to elude their testimonies ? how is it that they are driven to fly to the bastard treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias , Linus , Clemens , S. Denys , and the like Knights of the Poste , brought in to depose on their behalfe ; though others of their owne side have cashiered them as counterfeits ? u u See Doctor Iames of the Bastardy of fal●e Fathers ; and Doctor Reinolds Conf●rence with Hart Ch●p 8. Divis. 2. for instance sake ; amongst the Popes decretall Epistles , the first of Clemens written ( as is pretended ) to Iames the brother of the Lord , is vouched by Bellarmine , x x Bellar. de Rom Pont. lib 2. cap 14. for proofe of the Popes Supremacie ; as also by the Rhemists , y y Rhem. Annot. in Pet. 1.15 . to prove that Peter promised Saint Clement , that after his departure he would not cease to pray for him and his flocke ; now this Clement is pretended to be the same that lived in the Ap●stles times , and is mentioned by Saint z z P●al. 4 3 Paul , but it is discovered for a coun●erfeit ; for in this Epistle it is said , that Peter prayed Clemens to write ( after his death ) this Epistle to Iames the brother of the Lord , to comfort him , and Clemens did so ; whereas Iames was dead long before Peter , a a

Eus●b . hist lib. 2 c. 23. Ioseph . antiq. Iud. lib. 20 cap. 8.

Qui tamen [ S. Iacobus ] octo ante Petrum annos Martyrio vitam sinierat . Cusan . lib. 3. de Concord . Cathol. cap. 2. & lib. 2. c. 17

about an eight yeares at least , now what a sencelesse thing is this to write letters to a dead man , specially knowing him to be dead : and hereupon Cardinal Cusanus hath cast off this Epistle as counterfeit : In deed Turrian the Iesuit striveth to defend b b Ostendamusque verissima esse , quae B. Petrum docuisse Clemens dicit . Fr. Turrian . defens . Canon . & epist. Decretal . lib. 4. cap. 4. pag. 306. this Epistle , but yet hee cannot shew by what carryer Clement did send the letters to Saint Iames. And yet must these bee vouched under the reverent names of Saints Abdias , Saint Linus , Saint Clement , Saint Denys ; beeing not much unlike ( as one in Budaeus compares c c Quales sunt quae aedi●●● sacri● mutulares statuae pilis aut columnis imponuntur — patere ●os nihilo utiliores statuis lapideis esse . Budaeus de Asse . lib. 5 pag. 277. some grave pontifician Fathers ) to antiques in Churches , which bow and crouch under vaults and pillars , and seeme to beare up the Church , as sometime the Pope thought hee saw the Church of Saint Iohn Latterane totter , and ready to fall , had not Saint Dominick upheld it with his shoulder d d The life of Saint Dominicke . , whereas these doe not beare up the Church , but are borne out by the Church , and are indeed but puppets .

PA.

Master Wadesworth saith , Hee found the Catholickes had farre greater and better armies of evident witnesses than the Protestants .

PRO.

Master Bedel answereth Master Wadesworth , e e Bede●s Letters to Wads●worth pag. 109. 110 that had it pleased God to have opened his eyes , as hee did Elisha's servants , hee might have seene , that there were more on our side than against us . Besides ( as Master Bedel saith ) the Romane Doctors may bring in whole armies of witnesses on their side , when they change the question , and prove what no body denyes ; as when the question is , whether the Pope have a monarchy over all Christians , an uncontrollable jurisdiction , and infallibility of judgement , f f Bellarm. de Rom. Pont. lib. 2 cap 15 & 16. answe●ed by D. Field . lib. 5 cap. 35.36 . Bellarmine alleadgeth a number of Fathers , Greek and Latine , to prove onely that Saint Peter had a primacie of honour and authority , which is farre short of that supremacie which the Popes now claime , and which is the question .

So also to prove the verity of Christs body and blood in the Lords Supper , g g Bellar. de E●char . li. 2. toto . Bellarmine spends the whole booke in citing the Fathers of severall Ages . To what purpose ? when the question is not of the truth of the presence , but of the manner , whether it bee to the teeth or belly ( which hee in a manner denyes ) or to the soule and faith of the receiver .

So also h h Bell●r . de Purgat . lib. 1. cap. 6. Bellarmine for the proofe of Purgatory alleadgeth a number of Fathers ( as Ambrose , Hilarie , Origen , Basil , Lactantius , Ierome ) but farre from the purpose of the question , and quite beside their meaning : for they spake of the fire at the end of the world ( as Sixtus Senensis saith i i Sixt. Senens . Biblio● lib. 5. Annot. 171. ) and Bellarmine cites them for the fire of Purgatory before the end .

In like sort , for proofe of Saintly invocation , Bellarmine musters up thirty Fathers , of the Greeke and Latine Church * * Bellar. l. 1. de Sanct. Beat. cap. 19. ; now here is an army of ancients able to fright some untrained souldiers ; but it is but like the army that troubled the Burgundians , * * Voyans grande quantité de lances debout , si leur sembloit ; — ils trouuerent que s'estoient ●●ans chardons . Philip. de Comminees Cronique du Roy loys vnziesme Chapit . xix . Who lying neere to Paris , and looking for the battaile , supposed great Thistles to have beene Launces held upright : or like those souldiers mentioned by Plutarch in the life of Agesilaus , who bombasted , and embossed out their coates with great quarters , to make them seeme bigge and terrible to the enemy ; but after they were overthrowne , and slaine in the field , Agesilaus caused them to be stript , and bid his souldiers behold their slender and weerish bodies , of which they stood so much in feare , whiles they looked so big upon their enemies : the like may be sayd of Bellarmine's forces , they keepe a great quarter , but when they come to joyne issue for it , they are soone defeated . For of the Fathers alleadged by Bellarmine , th●re be ( as is already showne in the fifth Age ) seven of the thirty , which bee no Fathers , but post-nati , punies to primitive Antiquity .

Eight of them bee justly suspected not to bee men of that credite , as that their depositions may bee taken .

Two or three of them are wrong cited by a writ of errour , being either ignorantly , or wilfully mis-translated .

Seven others of them speake like Poets , Oratours , Panegyrists , not dogmatically , but figuratively , with rhetoricall compellations , expressing their votes , and desires .

The other sixe that remaine , they speake of Intercession in generall , not of Invocation in pa●ticular , of some few p●oples private practice , but not of the Chu●ches Office , Agend , or Doctrine generally taught , practised , and established .

Besides ( as Master Moulin saith ) k k M. Moulins waters of Siloe , or Con●utation of Purgato●●● , Chap. 7. pag. 324. among so many Authours as might fill a house , it is an easie matter to finde somewhat to wrest to a mans owne advantage , and never to bee perceived , because few men have these bookes , and of them that have them , few doe reade them , and of those that reade them , fewest of all doe understand them .

But that wee may the better conceive the meaning of the testimonies and allegations of the Fathers , let us observe such cautions as the learned l l

M. And. Rivet tract . de Pat●um auto●it . c. 11.

Bi●hop M●untague his Treatise of the Invocation of Saints . pag. 155.

Doctor F●atlyes Disput. with M. M●sk●t pag. 100

have set downe for our helpe herein .

The Fathers writings bee either Dogmaticall , Polemicall , or Popular . 1 1 Cau●ion .

2 2 Caution . In their Dogmaticall , and Doctrinall , wherein they set downe positive Divinity , they are usually very circumspect : in their Polemickes , and Agonistickes , earnest and resolute : in their Homilies , and popular discourse , free and plaine .

3 3 Caution . In their con●roversall writings , it fall's out sometimes , that through heat of disputation , whiles they oppose one errour , they sl●p in●o the opposite ; like one that labouring to make a crooked thing straight , bends it the quite contrary way : thus Hierome wh●les he affronts such a● impugn'd virginity , himselfe quarrels at lawfull Matrimony ; otherwise the Fathers in their Polemiques , whiles they keepe themselves close to the question in hand , their tenets are ever most sound , and direct .

In their Homilies , 4 4 Caution . and exhortations to the people , they st●ive to move affections , so that they runne forth into figu●es of Rhetorick , and keepe not themselves close to points of doctrine .

Of this kind of speech , Sixtus Senensis gives a good Rule , to wit , n n Non sunt Concionatorum verba semper eo rigore accipienda , multa enim Declamatores per Hyperbolen ●nunciant , ho● interdum Chrysostomo contingit . Sixt. S●nens . Biblioth. lib. 6 Annot. 152. that Their sayings are not to be urged in the rigour , because that Orator like they speake Hyperbolically and in excesse ; and he gives instance in Chysostome , as well he might ; for in the point of the Sacrament , he used such Rhetoricall straines , as hath beene noted in the fifth Centurie : and Hierome saith of himselfe , o o Rhetoricati sumus , ●t in morem De●lamatorum , pau●ulùm Ins●mus . Hieron . advers. Helvid . I have played the Oratour , in manner of a declamation , to wit , by way of amplification , and exaggeration .

Saint Hierome observes , p p Ant●quam in Alexäd●à quasi Daemonium meridianü Arius 〈◊〉 innocenter quaedam & minus cau●e loquuti sunt . Hieron . in Apolog. 2. advers. Russinum . pag. 220. That before that Southerne Devill Arius arose at Alexandria , 5 5 Caution . the ancients spake certaine things in simplicitie , and not so warily : Saint Austine makes the like observation touching Pelagius ; how that the Fathers , ante mota certamina Pelagiana , extended the power of Free-will above measure , having then no cause to feare , there being no Pelagius then risen up in the world , an enemie of grace , and advancer of nature . Vntill the Pelagians beganne to wrangle , the Fathers ( saith Saint Austine , q q Tali qu●stione nullus pul●abatur ; vobis [ pelagianis ] nondum litigantibus securius loque●atur I●annes [ Chrysostomus . ] August . lib. 1. cont. ●u●i●n . c. 6. tom. 7. and he gives instance in Saint Chrysostome ) tooke lesse h●ed to their speeches , to wit , in the poynt of Originall sinne , and free-will , but after that the Pelagian heresie arose , it made us , saith the same Austine , r r S●d non erat ●x●●●tus hanc haeresin [ 〈◊〉 ] — multo vigila● 〈◊〉 diligentio e●que re●● d●t nos [ Pelagius ] 〈◊〉 li 3. de doctr. Ch●ist . c. 33. tom. 3. Multò vigilantiores , diligentioresque , much more diligent , and vigilant in scanning of this point . In like sort , the Doctors that lived in the middle ages , what time Popery was not yet growne to his height , they spoke not so warily in the poynt of justification and grace , yet they left not the truth of God without a witnesse , 1 Tim. 6.12 .

C●u●ion . We must not take up such customes as were sometim●s used , in the Church , and make presidents of them , as if they had beene warranted by the Church , and the Fa●hers then living ; for the Fathers , being taken up wi●h weightier matters , winked at other faults , and were driven to beare with what they could not redresse . Saint Austine complaineth of the superstition of certaine Christians , that in Church yards did kneele before the Tombes of the Martyrs , and before the painted Histories of their sufferings . Novi multo●●sse 〈◊〉 pulchro●um & pict narum ad●rato●es . Aug. de morib . ec●les . cap 34. tom . 1. Qui aut●m se in memorijs Martyrum inebr●ant , quomod● à nobis approbari possunt ? sed ●liud est quod decemus , aliud quod susti●em●s Idem c●ntrà Faustum M●nich● lib. 20. cap. 21. t●m. 6. I know many ( saith he ) who worship Sepulchers and Pictures , I know many who drinke most excessively over the dead . The good Bishops saw these malladies in their flocks , and desired to reforme them , but they feared lest the rude people should hinder their r●formation , so that they were constrained to tollerate these and the like abuses ; insomuch that the same Austine speaking of them saith , t t Quod a●tem instituitur pre●er con●uetudinem , ut quasi observatio Sacra menti sit● approbare non p●ss●m , etiamsi multa hu●u modi propter nonnulla●um v●l 〈◊〉 , vel turbulentarum personarum 〈◊〉 devi●andi libe●●●is impr●bare non audeo . Aug. Epist. 119. d Ianuar. Approbare non possum , I can no way allow them , and yet liberius improbare non audeo , I dare not freely reprove them : and why ? lest thereby I either offend some good men , or provoke some turbulent spirits .

And the same Father speaking of such as dranke , drunke over the Sepulchers of the dead , withall he addeth : u u S●d ●liud est quod dos●m●s , aliud quod sustinemas ; aliud quo● praecipere 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 . Au● . contrà Faustum Mani●● . li 20 ca. 21. It is one thing that we teach , another that we tollerate ; it is one thing that which we are commanded to teach , another thing we are commanded to correct , and which we are constrained to beare withall , untill that it be amended .

Neither indeed is it to be marvailed , if the learned among them , and such as were lately come from the Philosophers Schooles into Christian Colledges , and a people newly crept out of Paganisme ; I say it is not to be marvailed , if they retained something of their form●r Tenets and customes ; but these are no presidents for us who have now better learned Christ Iesus .

7 7 Cau●ion . For farther caution , wee may make use of that rule which Bellarmine layeth downe ; and it is this : Wee must ( saith x x Oportet ex verbis ape●ti● S Patrum expone●e ea● quae videntur obscura et dubia in alijs Patribus . Bellarm. lib. 2. de Euchar. cap. 37. §. Ex. hee ) conferre the Fathers one with another , and the same Father oft times in diverse Treatises with himselfe ; and by those things that are clearely set downe in one place , or one Fath●r , expound those things that seeme more obscure and doubtfull in another .

Now wee accept of this rule , and thereby defeat diverse of our Adversaries allegations ; for example : Those words of Saint Ambrose y y Quia benedictione etiam Natura ipsa mutatur . Ambros. de ijs qui myster. initiantur cap. 9. are much pressed , Benedictione natura mutatur , By benediction or consecration the nature of the elements in the Lords supper is changed ; and yet Saint Cyrill z z Spiritus sancti operatione ad divinam aqua reformantur naturam . Cyril . Alexand. sup. Ioan. lib. 2. cap. 42. tom . 1. Georg. Trapezontio Interprete . saith as much of Baptisme ; namely , That the Waters are changed into a divine nature .

They will not hence inferre a Transubstantiation in Baptisme ; why will they then from the like words in Saint Ambrose inferre a Transubstantiation in the Lords Supper ?

Those wordes of Gregory Nyssen a a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. Nyssen . Orat. Catechet . cap. 37. pa. 536. are much pressed , namely ; Panem in corpus Christi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; Bread to bee changed into Christs Body . Now let Nyssen expound Nyssen , who in the words immediately going before saith , Corpus Christi ad divinam dignitatem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that Christ's body is changed or turned into a divine excellencie ; and yet this is done without any Transubstansiation at all .

In like sort , that of Theophylact is much urged , b b Bellar. lib. 2. de Euchar . c. 34. § Sed — adducit testimonium Theophylacti●a c●p . 26 Math. & in cap. 6 Ioan. dicentis panem transmutari in carnem Domini . who saith of the Bread , That it is trans-elementated into the body of Christ , hee useth the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : Now Theophylact may expound Theophylact , who in the very same place saith , c c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theophyl . in Ioan. cap. 6. vers. 54. pag. 654. Nos in Christum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that wee also are trans-elementated into Christ ; that a Christian is in a manner trans-elementated into Christ : Now they will not say , that wee are transubstantiated into Christ ; therefore neither doth Theophylact by the word Trans-elementation used of the Bread and Wine , understand any substantiall , but onely a Sacramentall change . The like is showne in the testimonies objected out of Hilarie in the fourth age , and Cyrill of Alexandria in the fifth , answered by themselves .

8 8 Caution . Wee are to make a dfference of the Fathers age , and w●itings , as also of their gifts ; Saint Austin wrote more soundly than Origen , though Origen were his Ancient ; for Origen turned almost all into Allegories ; yet as with Wines , so in Writings , usually the elder the better , and the Water neere the Spring-head runnes cleare and sweet ; so it was with the Fathers that wrote during the first five hundred yeares next after Christ : others , that wrote after the first sixe hundred yeares , such as Damascen , Anselme , and the like , they were post-nati to primitive antiquitie , and out of the verge of the Churches purity , as also some of them partiall , for so was Damascen a party in that Image quarrell in the Easterne Church ; and therefore in that case his testimonie is to be barred .

Besides , for the answering of allegations out of the Fathers , wee must sever the bastard treatises , from the true and undoubted writings of the Fathers : for example , Dionysius Hierarchy is a counterfeit ; Clements constitutions are suspected , and Cyprian de Coena domini , is not d d Doctor Iames , of the Bast●rdie of Fathers . p●rt . ● . p. 12. Cyprians ; as is already shewne in the third Centurie .

Object .

If these be counterfeits , how is it that your selves produce divers testimonies out of them ; as also out of the Commentaries of Saint Hierome , and Saint Ambrose , upon Saint Pauls , Epistles , which yet your selves doe not hold them to be Saint Hieromes and Saint Ambroses Rob. C●ci Consura Pa●●um . p. 133. & 143. And. ●ivet Critici sacri . lib. 4. c. 5. de Hieronymi exegeticis . Id. lib. 3 c. 18. de ●●bijs & suppositijs to●i 4. & 5. Ambrosian . ?

Answer .

It is not to bee marvelled , if some of our learned Protestants ( admitting the bookes were written by them whose names they doe beare ) doe thence produce testimonies against you : for it is a rule in Law , f f Tynd●rus Tract . de Testibu● . Testem quem quis inducit pro se , tenetur recipere contre se , you have produced them for your owne benefit , and the●efore in reason you cannot disallow of them now , though it be to your great hinderance , you first produced these witnesses , and now that they are in the face of the Court , you must give us leave to examine them upon crosse Interrogatories .

To close up this point ; the Fathers are more to bee credited , when they conclude a thing de fide , dogmatic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 didactic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , doctrinally , positively , purposely , by way of setting forth a matter of faith ; than when they write Agonistic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , g g Master Harding . 1● . Artic. division 10. that is to say by way of contention and disputation , or obiter , touching a point onely upon the by , and as it may serve and suite with the point they have in hand , without farther respect thereunto . They are more to be credited when they speake Categoric 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , assertivè , with asseveration ; than speaking onely Historic 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and ex opinione aliorum , relating onely the opinion of others , or what was done , and not delivering their owne judgement ; they are more to bee esteemed wh●n they speake as Divines in a professed discourse , than when they speake as Orators , Poets , Panegyrifts , and in a popular h h Demegorica , non sunt Lit is Decretoria . D. Andrewes Resp. ad Card. Bellarm. Apolog. cap. 1. pa. 42. discourse .

In a word , wee must observe , what they write out of their private opinion , and what they deliver as the judgement of the Church : when any of them goe alone , it is not so safe following them ; but where wee have their unanimous and joynt consent in any materiall point , wee may more securely rely upon them ; and this was one of King Iames his directions for Students in Divinity i i King Iames his Cygnea Cantio , or Direction● for Students in Divini●●● , published by D. Featly . : and I find the same rule in Vincentius Lirinensis ; to wit , k k Quicquid non unus , aut duo tantum , sed omnes pariter uno eodemque consensu , apertè , frequenter , perseveranter , tenuisse , scripsisse , docuisse , cognoverit , id sibi quoque intelligat abs●ue ullá dubitatione ●●ed●ndum . Vincent . Lirin . cont. Haeres. c 4. &c. 39. That wee may rely upon that , not which one or two of the Fathers , but either all ( or most of them ) have taught , and that manifestly , frequently and constantly .

PA.

Although in some things the Fathers make for you , yet in the point of Merit , prayer for the dead , and prayer to Saints they are against you ; l l Bellar. de N●t Ec●les . lib. 4 cap. 9. § Item . they used the word Merit , and held as wee doe .

PRO.

The Ancients used the word Merit ( and so also they used the termes , Indulgences , Satisfaction , Sacrifice , a●d Penance ) but quite in another sense then the later Romanists doe : the Fathers who use it , tooke up the word as they found it in ordinary use and custome with men in those times , not for to deserve , which in our language implyeth Merit of condignity , but to incurre , to attaine , impetrate , obtaine and procure , without any relation at all to the dignity , either of the person or the worke ; thus Saint Bernard concerning children promoted to the Prelacie , saith ; m m L●●tiores interim quòd virgas evas●r●nt , q●am quòd meruerint principatum . Be●n . Epist. 22. They were more glad they had escaped the rod , than that they had merited ( that is , obtayned ) the pr●ferment . Saint Augustine saith , n n P●o actione gratia●um flammas meruimus odio●um . Aug. lib 3. con●●à Lit. 〈◊〉 . c. 6. tom. 7. that hee and his fellowes for their good doings , at the hands of the D●natists , In steed of thankes merited ( that is , incurred ) the flames of hatred : on the other side the same Fathe● affirmeth , o o Pro p●rse●utionibus ●t bla●phemys vas electionis me●uit n●min●ri . Id. de pr●d●st . e● grat . c. 16. That Saint Paul for his persecutions and blasphemies merited ( that is , found grace ) to bee named a vessell of election . Saint Gregory hath a straine concerning the sinne of Adam , which is sung in the Church of Rome , at the blessing of the Taper ; p p 〈◊〉 Cerei 〈◊〉 O ●alix 〈◊〉 quae 〈◊〉 ac ta●tum meruit 〈…〉 Ma●●●le E●●les . Sarisbur . ●●g . 30 O happy sinne that merited ( that is , Found the favour ) to have such and so great a Redeemer . In like sort by merits they did ordinarily signifie workes , as appeares by that of Saint Bernard , saying , q q N●que enim 〈…〉 , ut p●●pt●r ●a vita ●eterna deb●●tur 〈◊〉 jure . Merita o●nia 〈◊〉 D●i ●unt . Be●n serm. 1. in Ann●n●i B. Mariae . The merits of men are not such , that for them eternall life should bee due of right ; for all merits are Gods gifts .

Neither did the ancient Church hold merit of Condignitie , but resolved according to that of Leo ; r r N●que 〈◊〉 de quali●●●● 〈…〉 dono●um Leo S●●m . 12. de 〈◊〉 . Dom. The measure of celestiall gifts depends not upon the qualitie of works ; they were not of the Rhemists opinion , s s Rhemists Annot. up●● H●br. 6. sect. 4. That good works are meritorious , and the very cause of salvation ; so farre that God should be unjust , if he rendred not heaven for the same . They were not so farre Iesuited as with Vasquez t t Vasquez in primam secundae qu. 114. to hold , that u u Opera bona justorum ex seipsis , absque ullo pacto & accep●atione digna esse remuneratione vitae aet●rnae , & equalem valorem condignitatis habere ad consequendam aeternam gloriam . Vasquez Comment. in primam . secund. q● . 114. disp. 214. cap. 5. in initio● The good works of just persons are of themselves , without any covenant and acceptation , worthy of the reward of eternall life , and have an equall value of condignitie to the obtaining of eternall glorie .

PA.

You cannot denie , but that prayer for the dead is ancient .

PRO.

The manner now used is not ancient , for they that of old prayed for the dead , had not any reference to Purgatorie , as Popish prayers are now adayes made .

It is true indeed , that anciently they used Commemorations of the defunct ; neither mislike wee their manner of naming the deceased at the holy table ; in this sort , they used a Commemoration x x

Missa Chrysostomi , in Biblioth. Patr. graeco-lat . Par. 1624.

— & inprimis sanctissimae Virginis . ordo Liturgiae B. Ioann Chrysostomi ex versione Leonis Tusci apud Cassand● in Liturgiae . ca. ● .

of the Patriarks , Prophets , Apostles , Evangelists , Martyrs , and Confessours , yea of Mary the mother of our Lord , to whom it cannot be conceived , that by prayer they did wish their deliverance out of Purgatorie , sith no man ever thought t●em to be there ; but if they wished any thing , it was the deliverance from the power of death , which as yet tyrannized over one part of them ; the hastning of their resur●ection , as also a joyful publike acquitall of them in that great day wherein they shall stand to bee judged before the judge of the quicke and dead , that so having fully escaped from all the consequences of sin ( the last enemie being then destroyed y y 1 Cor. 15.26.54 . and death swallowed up in victorie ) they might obtaine a perfect consummation and blisse , both in body and soule , according to the forme of our Churches z z At the buriall of the dead . Liturgie .

In the Commemoration of the faithfull departed , retained as yet in the Romane missall , there is used this Orizon : a a R●quiem aeternam dona ei● Domine , & lux perpetua luceat eis . Agenda Mortuorum , in Antiphonario Gregorij . apud Pamel . to . 2. p. 175. O Lord grant unto them eternall rest , and let everlasting light shine unto them : and againe , b b Hanc igitur oblationem , quam tibi pro commemoratione animarum in p●ce dormientium suppliciter immolamus quaesumus Domine , benignus accip●as . Pamel . Liturg. pag. 610 tom. 2. This oblation , which we humbly offer unto thee for the Commemoration of the soules that sleepe in peace , we beseech thee O Lord , receive graciouslie ; and it is usuall in the Ambrosian , and Gregorian Office , and in the Romane missall , to put in their Memento , the names of such as sleepe in the sleepe of Peace , & omnium pausantium , and to entreate for the spirits of those that are at rest : c c Mem●nt● Domine eorum qui dormiunt in somno pa●●s . A●brosiana Missa , in orat pro defunctis . Pamel . Liturg. pag. 303. to . 1 & Canon Missae , in Officio Gregor. apud . Pamel . pag. 182. to . 2. Remember , O Lord , thy servants , and hand maides , which have gone before us with the Ensigne of Faith , and sleepe in the sleepe of Peace ; now by Pausantium , d d Pro Spiritibus pausantium Ambrosij , Augustini , Fulgentij , Isidori . Missa Mozarabe . Muzarabes di●ebantur mixti Arabibus . In Liturg. Pamel . pag. 642 [ Et Pausantium ] quo nomine intelligi puto , Confessores qui in Domino , & sanct● pace quies●unt . Id. Ibid. pag 645. Pamelius understands , such as sleepe and rest in the Lord . Where we may observe , that the soules unto which Everlasting blisse was wished for , were yet acknowledged to rest in Peace , and consequently not to be disquieted with any Purgatorie torment . So that the thing which the Church anciently aymed at in her supplications for the dead , was not to ease or release the soules out of Purgatorie , but that the whole man ( not the soule separated onely ) might find mercie of the Lord in that day , as sometime Saint Paul prayed for Onesiphorus , e e 2 Tim. 1.18 . even whiles Onesiphorus was yet alive . Besides , they desired a joyfull Resurrection , as appeares by severall passages , and Liturgies ; by the Aegyptian Liturgie attributed to Cyril Bishop of Alexandria , where we find this Orizon : f f Resuscita corpora eorum in die quem constituisti secundum promissiones 〈◊〉 veras et mendacij expertes . Cyr. Litur . ex Arab. in Lat. conversa . pag. 62. Raise up their bodies in the day which thou hast appointed , according to thy promises which are true and cannot lye . And that of Saint Ambrose , for Gratian and Valentinian the Emperours : g g Te qu●eso , summe Deus , ut charissimes ●uvenes maturà resurrectione suscipes , et resuscites ; ut immaturum hu●● vitae isti●s cursum maturà resurrectione com●enses . Ambros. de obitu Valentin . I doe beseech thee most high God , that thou wouldst raise up againe those deere young men with a speedie resurrection ; that thou mayst recompence this untimely course of this present life with a timely resurrection .

As also in Grimoldus his Sacramentarie ; h h Omnipotens s●m●iterne Deus , coll●ca●e digna●e corpus et animam & spiritum samuli tui N. in sinibus Abrahae Isaac & Iacob , ut ●um dies agnitionis tue venerit inter sanct●s et electos tuos eum ie●uscita●i praecip●as . G●●moldi Sacramentor . lib. in to . 2. Liturg. Pamelij pag 456. Almighty and everlasting God , vouchsafe to place the body and the soule , and the spirit of thy servant N. in the bosomes of Abraham , Isaac , and Iacob ; that when the day of thine acknowledgement shall come , thou mayst command them to be raised up among thy Saints and thine Elect. The like is found in the Agend of the dead , i i — Vt in Resurrectionis glorià inter Sanctos tuos resus●●tari mercantur . Agenda mortuorum , in Antiphonario Gregorij in Pamelij Liturgi● . to . 2. p. 175 already mentioned .

PA.

Invocation of Saints was anciently used .

PRO.

I answer , that though in respect of later times , Prayer to Saints and some other of our adversaries Tenets may seeme ancient , and gray-headed ; yet in respect of the first three or foure hundred yeares next after Christ , they are not of that ancient standing : now the true triall of antiquitie is to be tak●n from the first and purest ag●s ; for as Tertullian telleth us , k k Id verius quod prius , id prius quod & ab initio , ab initio quod ab Apostolis . Tertul. advers. Marcion . lib. 4. cap. 5. Id esse verum quodcunque primum , id esse adult●rum quodcunque posterius . Id. advers. Praxeam . cap. 2. Id Dominicum & verum quod prius traditum ; extraneum & falsum quod posterius immissum . Id. de praescrip. advers. Haeret. cap. 31. That is most true , which is most ancient , that most ancient which was from the beginning , that from the beginning which from the Apostles , so that which at fi●st was delivered to the Saints , is truest ; and the good seed was first sowne , and after that came the tares .

Besides , what though some poynts in Poperie were of a thousand yeare● standing ? it is not time that can make a lye to be truth ; antiquitie without truth is but antiquitas erroris , an ancient errour ; and there is no p●aescrip●ion of time can hold plea against God and his truth .

Neither yet can you prescribe for divers Tenet●● Scotus that was termed the Subtile Doctor , telleth us , l l Vaū tamen addit Scotus , quod minimè proband● est , ante Lateranense Concilium non fuisse dogma fidei Transubstantiationem . Bellarm. lib. 3. de Euchar. cap. 23. § Vnum . that before the Councel of Lateran ( which was not till the yeare 1215 ) Transubstantiation was not believed as a poynt of Faith . This did Bellarmine observe as a thing remarkable in Scotus , although he doth not approve the same .

Cassander saith , m m Satis compertum est universalem Christi Ecclesiam in hunc usque diem ; occidentalem verò s●u Romanam mille omplius à Christo annis , in sol●mni praesertim et ordinaria hujus Sacramenti dispensatione utramque panis & vin● speciem omnibus Ecclesiae Christi membris exhibu●sse ; id quod ex innumeri● veterum Scripto●um , t●m Graecorum , quàm Laticerū testimonijs manifestum est . Cassand . Art. 22. Consult . de ut●âque specie . It is sufficiently manifest , that the Vniversall Church of Christ untill this day , and the Westerne or Romane Church , for more then a thousand yeares aft●r Christ , did exhibit the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church , at least in publike , as it is most evident by innumerable testimonies , both of Greeke and Latine Fathers . So that the barring of the Lay-people of the Cup , came not into the Church by any publike decree , till the Councel of Constance , which was held in the yeare 1414 , some two hundred yeares agoe .

Fisher Bishop of Rochester saith , n n De quo tamen [ purgatorio ] apud pris●os illos nulla , vel quam rarissima fiebat mentio ; sed et Graecis ad hunc usque diem non est creditum . Ro●●ens . ar● . 18● contra Lutherum . that of Purgatorie there is very little or no mention amongst the ancient ; and that the Grecians doe not believe it to this day .

In like sort , their Latine service , which Pope Vitalian brought in , o o Papa Vitaltanus , omnia in Christianorum t●mpl●s per suos sacrificos in latino sermone fieri jussit . Wolf . Lection . m●mor●bil . pa 74. ad an● 6●6 . is not of Primitive antiquitie , for it was not generally put upon the Church until the yeare 666. which is the number of the name of the beast mentioned in the Apocalypse , Revel. 13.18 . and found out by Irenaeus p p Sed & Lateinos nomen sexcentorum sex●ginta sex numerum [ habet ] & valde verisimile est , Latinienim sunt qui nunc regnant . Iren l. 5. advers. Haer. cap. 25. edit. Gallasij cap. 30. edit Fevard . to arise out of the numerall letters of the word Lateinos ; now this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wel suites with the Pope whose Faith and Church is the Romish or Latine Church , and his publike Service in Latine , and his translation of Scripture in Latine .

Now touching prayer to Saints ; It is true , that such as had lapsed , and fallen in time of persecution , were wont to implore the prayers of Ma●tyrs and Confessours imprisoned for the q q Cyprian l. 3. ●p. 15 Tertull. de pudiciti● . c. 22. Gospel ; that by their interceding for th●m , they might procure some ease or relaxation of such canonicall censures as were enjoyned them by the Church , & Cyprian was of opinion , that the Saints aft●r death , remembred thei● old friends here , as having tak●n fresh and particular notice of their severall states , votes , and necessities ; and hence grew that compact betwixt Cyprian and Cornelius , that whether of them went to heaven before the other , he should pray for his surviving r r Si quis nostr●m prior divinae dignationis celeritate praecesserit , perseveret a●ud cum nostra dilectio pro fratribus & sororibus apud misericordiam patris non cesset oratio . Cypr. l. ● . cap 1. vel ( ut in alijs edit . ) ep. 57. ad Cornel. & de Discipl . & habitu virg. friend . Now this soliciting of Martyrs before their deaths , brought in the next Age a custome to call upon them after their deaths : yet so as they did not directly invote them . For so it was ; for the better preservation of the memory of Saints and Martyrs , they had their Commemoration dayes , and were wont to meet at the Tombes and Monuments of Martyrs , where they kept their anniversary , and yearely solemnities , and made speeches in their praise and commendations ; and in these their orations they spoke to the deceased , as if they had beene living , and present there , but these were onely straines of rhetoricke , Figures , and Apostrophee's , rather Declamationes rhetorum , flowers of rhetoricke , than Definitiones Theologorum , decisions of Divines . In this kind Gregorie Nazianzene saith , s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Greg. Nazian. orat 3. in Iulian. Heare , O thou soule of great Con●●antius , ( if thou hast any understanding of these things ) and as many soules of the Kings before him as loved Christ . The like he hath in his funerall oration which he made upon his Sister Gorgonia , where he speakes thus unto her : t t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. orat . undecimâ in Gorgon . If thou hast any care of the things done by us , and holy soules receive this honour from God , that they have any feeling of such things as these ; receive this oration of ours , in stead of many , and before many funerall obsequies . He speakes doubtfully and faintly , If thou hast any sense or apprehension hereof ; and , if you be affected with these things ; it seemeth hee thought that the defunct had not ordinarily notice of things done on earth , neither will it serve to say as Bellarmine doth , u u Si , non est dubitantis , sed affirmantis , ut ●um dicit Apostolus ad Philemonem , Si habes me so●ium , suscipe illum . Bellarm. de Sanct. Beat. li. 1. cap. 20. § ad locum Nazianzeni dico . that Si , is not dubitantis , but affirmantis , not a terme of doubting , but of asseveration , as that of Saint Paul , If thou count me therefore a partner , receive him as my selfe . For there is no man , but if he reade these places unpartially , Heare , if there be any sense , and , Heare , if God grant it as a priviledge to soules deceased to have sense of these things , but he will conceive that Si is not put for , For ; or quoniam , or as a note of affirming , but as a note of doubt , at least in the parties that spake it .

Hitherto the Saints were rather Vocati , called unto , as comprecants , to joyne their prayers with the living , than Invocati , Directly called upon , or prayed unto ; yet in processe of time the prayers made to God to heare the Intercessions of the Saints , were changed into prayers , to the Saints , to heare our intercessions themselves : For wee deny not but that among the ancient writers , there are some places found which speake of the Intercession of the Saints ; there are also wishes found that were made by living men , that the Saints would pray for them ; but this is not the difference betwixt us , whether the Saints pray for us , but whether wee must pray unto , and call upon them ? for wee grant , that the Saints in heaven doe pray for Saints on earth in generall , x x Et tamen ge●●raliter orantibus pro indigenti● supplicantium . Aug. de ●urâ pro mortuis c. 16. to . 4. according to the nature of communion of Saints ; but their intercession for us in generall , will not inferre our invocation of them in particular .

There are also in ancient Writers p●rticular examples to bee found of some , that ou● of their owne private devotion have called upon Saints ; but thi● cannot raise up a tenet in Religion to bind the Church , either for doctrine or practice ; for what one or two shall doe , carried away with their owne devout affection , having zeale ( hap'ly ) not according to knowledge , is not straight way a Ru●e of the Church , nor one of the Churches Agends . The thing wee stand upon is this ; that there were not any Collects , nor set formes , nor any di●ect Invocation of Saints put into the Common-service , and publicke Liturgie of the Westerne Church untill the dayes of Gregory the Great , or there abouts , sixe hundred yeares after Christ ; so that their Saint-invocation is not so ancient as they would beare the world in hand .

In a word , there is much difference betweene the ancients , and moderne Romists herein ; for in the compellations which the ancients used , they pleaded onely Christs merits , making the Saints ( high in Gods favour ) competitioners to the throne of grace with the Saints living on earth : but not content herewith , the Schooles afterwards held meritorious Invocation of Saints , wherein the Saints owne merits were brought in , and pleaded . Wee pray unto the Saints ( saith the Master of the Sentences ) y y Oramus ergo ut intercedant pro nobis , id est , ut merita eorum nobis suffragentur . Petr. Lombard . l. 4. dist. 45. lit . G. That they may intercede for us , that is to say , That their merits may helpe us ; and Biel speakes to the same effect . z z Sanctos invocamus , ut medi●tores , quorum meritis et intuitu nobis Deus conferat , quae ex nostris accipere minus sumus digni . Biel . in Can. Missae lect. 30.

THE SIXTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 500. to 600.
PAPIST .

WWhat say you of this sixth age ?

PROTESTANT .

Quod dies ●egat , dies dabit ; what one age affords not , another doth : and dies dedit , I trust wee have got the day in the two last , justly stiled the learned Ages . The Reader is not now ( in the close of the first 600 yeares ) to expect so full and frequent Testimonies as formerly : such as wee find wee produce , * * Actes 14.17 . For God hath not left himselfe without witnesse .

Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon .

Iustus Orgelitanus compares the Scriptures to Davids Tower wherein hang a thousand shields , and all the targets of the strong men ; a a In S. Scripturâ omnis fortium armatura reperitur , ex quâ vel contrâ Diabolum , vel ministros eju● fortitur repugnatur . Iust. Orgelit . in cap. 4. Cantic . it being furnished with all sorts of armour , to encounter Satan , and his Instruments withall .

Saint Bede records of the successors of Colum-kille the great Saint of Ireland , That they b b Tantùm ea quae in Propheti●is , Evangelicis et Apostolicis literis discere poterant , observantes . Beda lib. 3. Hist. cap. 4. observed only those workes of pietie and chastitie , which they could learne in the propheticall , evangelicall , and apostolicall writings ; and these they esteemed as their chiefe riches , according to that of c c Columban . in Mono●lich . & in Epist. ad Hun●ld . Columbanus : Sint tibi divitiae divinae dogmata legis .

Iunilius an African Bishop , treating of the Canonica●l bookes , and having said that some account Tobie with others Canonicall , he puts the question , and then resolves it : Why are not these bookes inserted amongst the Canonicall Scriptures , and he names amongst other Tobie , Esdra , Iudith , and the second of the Maccabees ? Because ( saith he ) d d Quare hi libri inter Canonic●s S. non c●●runt ? Quoniam apud Haebraeos quoque super h●c diff●renti● recipiebantur , sicut Hieron . caeterique testantur . Iunil . African . de part . divinae legis lib 1. c 3. to . 1. Bibl. Patr. Par. 1589. The Iewes did make a difference of them , as Saint Hierome , and others witnesse .

Of Communion under both kinds , and number of Sacraments .

Hinemar in the life of Rhemigius Archbishop of Rhemes ( who converted King Clovis of France to the Christian faith ) e e Cassandri Liturg. ca. 31. Pamelij Liturgi● . pag. 618. tom. 1. reports that the Archbishop gave a Chalice for the peoples use , with this Motto ; Hauriat hinc populus vitam de sanguine sacro Injecto , aeternus quem fudit vulnere Christus . Rhemigius domino reddit sua vota sacerdos . Rhemigius Priest , that gave this cup , Prayeth that in it the people sup ; And still draw life from flowing blood Out of Christs side , as of a flood . Hee saith not , Hauriat hinc Clerus , but populus ; not , Let the Priest , but let the people drinke of this ministeriall Cup , as Cassander cals it .

The Divines of this Age ( as others of former times ) f f Duo tantùm Sacramenta Theologi hujus sextae aetatis agnoscunt . Illyric . Catalog . test . verit . li. 6. acknowledged onely two Sacraments , Baptisme , and the Lords Supper .

Of the Eucharist .

Fulgentius speaking of the Eucharist , saith ; g g In isto sacrificio gratiarum actio a●que commemoratio est carnis Christi , quam pro nobis obtulit . Augustin de fide ad Petr. Diacon . cap. 19. In this sacrifice there is a thankesgiving and remembrance of the flesh which hee offered , and the blood which Christ shed for us ; and h h S●crificium panis & vini Ecclesia Catholica per universum orbem terrae offerre non cessat . Id. ibid. this sacrifice of bread and wine was offered throughout the whole Catholike Church .

Here Fulgentius mentions a Sacrifice not proper and propitiatorie for the quick and dead , but Eucharisticall , and Commemorative , of prayse and thankesgiving , a lively memoriall , and representation of the Sacrifice offered on the Crosse.

The words alleadged are found amongst S. Austines workes ; but Bellarmine i i Tribuitur à multis Fulgentio . Be●tramus hunc librum sub nomine Fulgentij citavit . Bell. de Scriptor . Eccles. sect. 5. in Augustino . saith ; Many father them on Fulgentius , and that Bertram citeth these words under his name , and so indeed I find it : howsoever , were it Austin , k k Bertram de Corp. & sang● Dom. ●udiamus quid B. Fulgentius in libello de Fide dicat . or Fulgentius , the Master , or the Scholler ; so they taught , and so wee learned , both from them and others , namely l l Offerunt quidem S●●erdotes nostri , sed ad recordationem mortis ejus . Primas . in Heb. cap 10. Primasius , m m Offerimus quidem , sed recordationem sacientes mortis ejus . Ambros. in Hebr. 10. Ambrose , and n n Eandem hostiam offerimus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , vel potius recordationem ipsius . Chrysost. in Hebr. 10. Homil. 17. Chrysostome , who by way of correction say , Wee offer the same sacrifice , or rather the remembrance thereof . Besides , the same Fulgentius saith , o o Filium Dei unicum per fidem recipiunt . Fulg. de Incarn● & grat . ca. 26. They receive the onely Sonne of God .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Fulgentius saith , p p In primo Decalogi mandato , sicut unius Dei cultur● servitusque manifestissimè praecipitur ; ità omni Creaturae adoratio ac servitus à fidelibus exhibenda vehementissimè prohibetur . Fulgent . ad Donatum . That as in the first Precept , the worship of one God is manifestly commanded ; so the faithfull are utterly forbidden to yeeld the service of Adoration to any creature .

Dracontius in his booke of the Creation , saith ; q q Dracont . Poetic . Hexameron . in Bibl. Patr. to . 8. edit. 2. Par. 1589. It is Gods pleasure , Esse nihil prorsus se praeter ubiquè rogandum . That nothing beside himselfe should every where be prayed unto .

Of Faith and Merit .

Primasius saith , that s s Non ex operibus , sed sol●●ide per gratiam , vitam habere te nosti Primas . in cap. 2. ad Galat. We are freely justified by faith only , and not by workes .

Fulgentius saith , t t Sola ●ides eripit Iesu Christi . Fulgent . de Incar . & grat . cap. 16. From this our originall corruption , not any power of nature , or letter of the Law , but faith onely in Iesus Christ doth free us .

Now this saving faith , though it never goe alone , yet may there be some gift of God , which it alone is able to reach unto , u u Columban . in Monostych . pag. 62. as Columbanus also implyeth in that verse : Sola fides fidei don● ditabitur almo .

Concerning Merit , Fulgentius saith ; x x Grati● autem eti●n ipsa ide● non injust● dici●ur , quià con sol●m Deus 〈◊〉 suis dona sua reddit ; se● quià tantùm etiam ibi 〈◊〉 d●vinae retributionis exuberat● ut incomp●rabilitè atque in●ff●bilitèt omne meritum , quamvis bonae et ex Deo d●tae , humanae vo●u●tatis atque uperationis 〈◊〉 . edat . Fulg. ●d Monim . lib. 1. cap 10. Our glorificacation is not unjustly called grace , not onely because God doth bestow his owne gifts upon his owne gifts ; but also because the grace of Gods reward doth so much there abound , as that it exceedeth incomparably and unspeakably all the merit of the will , and worke of man , though good , and given from God : and y y N●ll●t●nùs 〈…〉 salubriter 〈◊〉 ●emus , tàm in no , 〈…〉 nostro ope●e tanqu●m nostrum nobis aliq●●d ve●dica●e . Id. ●bid . That this is wholesome doctrine , to challenge nothing to our selves in any good we doe .

And Iustus Orgelitanus saith , z z Et ide● quicquid justi in bonis op●ribus ●●uc●●ficat , totum est referendum ad Christum . Iust. Orgelit . in cap. 2. Canti● . Wee must thanke the Stocke Christ Iesus , if any good fruit grow on our branches .

Cassiodore saith , That a a Qu●●i●m vocatio Domini omne meritum praecedit ; nec in venit dignum sed fa●it : id●ò c●●m gratuita , alioqa●n justa diceretur . C●ssiodor . in Psal. 5. Gods vocation goes before our merit , not ●inding us worthy , but accepting us for such .

The Councell of Orange hath notably decreed against the Semi-pelagians . There are many good things ( saith the Councell ) b b Multa in homine bo●● sunt , que 〈◊〉 ●acit 〈◊〉 , nulla v●ro 〈◊〉 homo bona quae non Deus praestet ut 〈◊〉 homo . Concil. Ara●sic●● . ● . Cano. 20. C●r●nz● in summà Concil. done in man , which man doth not ; but man doth no good things , which God doth not make man to doe . c c Hoc ●ti●m salubrit●r pro●item●r & credimu● , quod in omni opere bono , non nos in 〈◊〉 & 〈◊〉 per Dei 〈…〉 ; sed ip●e nobis nullis praecedentibus b●nis meritis , & ●●dem & amorem ●ui 〈◊〉 inspirat . Canon . 25. Ca●an●a ibid. This also doe wee wholsomely professe and believe , that in every good worke wee doe not begin , and are holpen afterwards by the mercy of God ; but hee first of all , no good merits of ours going before , inspireth into us both faith and the love of him : which place Binnius hath d d Concil. tom. 2. pag. 392. Edit. Colon. 1606. corrupted , reading for nullis , multis ; many good workes going before : surely this was none of his good workes to corrupt the Councell .

Now also was held the fif●h Generall Councell at Constantinople , Anno 553. e e 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Evagr. Eccles. Histor. li. 4. ca. 11. Called by the Emperour Iustinian , and not by the Pope .

This Councell confirmed the decrees of the former ; and withall ( according to the former Canons ) decreed , f f Can. 35. That the See of Constantinople should have equal dignity with the See of old Rome . Vnto these forraine testimonies , we may joyne some of our owne , namely , the Britaines about the yeare five hundred ninetie sixe , what time as Gregory the Great sent Austin the Monke into England .

PAP .

It was our Gregory , and his Austin that first converted your Iland .

PRO.

It was converted long before Austins comming , even in the first Age of the Church , as is already showne . Besides , at his comming , there were in Britaine g g Septem Britonum Episcopi , et plures viri doctis●imi . Beda hist. Angl. lib. 2. cap. 2. seven Bishops , with other learned men , professing and teaching the Christian faith ; and above two thousand Monks in the Monastery of Bangor , h h Qui omnes [ Monachi ] labore maruum su● um vivebant . Galfrid . Monumetens . Hist. Reg. Britan . lib. 11. cap. 12. All living with the labour of their hands . Yea , Geffrey of Monmouth speaking of Cornwaile , and the Westerne parts , saith ; i i In parte autem Brit●num adhuc vige●at Christianitas , quae à tempore El●utherij Papae habita , numquam inter eos defecerat . Id. quò suprà . & Math. Westmon . ad anu . 596. In a part of the Britaines , Christianity yet flourished , the which being received in the dayes of Eleutherius ( in the yeare 179. ) Never fayled amongst them ; so that Austin was not our first Converter .

PA.

You say the Britaines held the Christian faith ; how then differed they from our Austin ?

PRO.

They differed both in Ceremonies , and Substantiall doctrine ; namely , in not acknowledging the Popes Supremacie , which is now a grand Article of the Romane Faith : for whereas Austine came with a kind of Legantine power from the Pope , and for the execution of this Commission ( not unknowne to the Ilanders ) used both prayers and k k Fertur minita●s praedixisse . Beda hist. li. 2. c. 2. & Math. Westmonast . ad ann. 603. threats , to move them to conformity with the Romane Church , at least for their manner of baptizing , and keeping of Easter ; but they told him plainely , that l l At illi nihil horum se facturos , neque illum pro Archiep . habitu●os esse respond●●ant . Id. ibid. They would not yeeld to any of his motions , nor acknowledge him for their Arch bishop : yea , m m Dinoc ●orum Abbas , mi●o modo liberalibus artibus cr●ditus diversis argumenta●ionibus ipsos ei nullam subjectionem d●be●e respondit . Galfii . quò ●uprà . Dinooch the Abbot of Bangor , a learned man , made it appear● by divers arguments , when Austine required the Bishops to be subject unto him , that they ought him no subjection ; yea , they farther added , n n Cum Archi●pis●opum suum hab●rent ●ui deh●rent et v●ll●●t 〈◊〉 , externo ve●ò Episcopo se mi●●mè subjectos ●ore . Antiquir . Britan. in Augustino . pag. 46. That they had an Arch-bishop of their owne , him they ought and would obey , but they would not be subject to any forraigne Bishop . For such an one ( belike ) they held the Pope to be .

Neither can it bee truly alleadged that they refused his jurisdiction , not his religion ; for Bede saith , o o Cu●ctis qu● di●ebant , 〈◊〉 laborabant . Beda quò supra . That they withstood him in all that ever he sayd : now surely hee sayd somewhat else besides his Arch-bishopricke , and his Pall ; or else he had beene a very ambitious man . Besides , in the dayes of Laurentius , Austines successour , Bishop Daganus denied all Communion , p p Nam Daganus Episcopus ad nos veniens , non solum ●ihum sumere nobis●um , sed nec in eodem hospitio voluit . Bed● lib. 2. Histor. cap. 4. And refused to eate bread in the same Inne , wherein the Romish Prelates lodged ; belike then they differed in matters of weight .

PA.

Wherein stood the difference , what doe you hence inferre , whether were you not beholden to our Austine ?

PRO.

The Romans kept their Easter , in memorie of Christs Resurrection , upon the first Sunday after the full Moone of March , the Britanes kept theirs in memory of Christs Passion , upon the fourteenth day of the Moone of March , on what day of the weeke soever it fell ; this they did after the example of the Easterne Churches in Asia , grounded on a tradition received from Saint Iohn ; whereby it seemeth , the British Church rather followed the custome of the East Church in Asia , planted by Saint Iohn , and his disciples , than the Romane ; which yet had they been of the Romish jurisdiction , they would ( in all likelyhood ) have followed ; now since they followed the Easterne custome , it is probable , that our first conversion to Christianitie , came from the Converted Iewes , or Grecians , and not from the Romanes ; and that Britaine was not under their jurisdiction . But whencesoever our Conversion were , wee blesse God for it .

Now concerning Austine , and the Britaines ; we acknowledge to Gods glory , that howsoever the superfluitie of Ceremonies which Austine brought in , might well have been spared ; yet Austine , and his Assistants , Iustus , Iohn , and Melitus , converted many to the Faith . Neither can we excuse the Britaines , for q q Nec suam praedicationem inimicis suis impendere [ volebant . ] Gal●rid . quò suprà . refusing to joyne with Austine in the conversion of the Pagan Saxons ; yet withall we must needs say , they had just reason to refuse to put their necks under his yoke : and surely if Austine had not had a proud spirit , he would onely have requested their helpe for the worke of the Lord , and not have sought dominion over them : which makes it very probable , that his obtruding the Popes jurisdiction over the Britaines , occasioned that lamentable slaughter of the Britaines . For when as Austine solicited the Britaines to obey the See of Rome , r r Antiquit. Britan. cap. 18. out of Amand. Xierxiens . a Fryer Minor collecteth thus ; Mo●a est discordia propter ●orum inobedientiam ad Augustinum . — Saxones conversi volebant Britones Augustino subdere . and they denied it ; then did Ethelbert a Saxon Prince , lately converted by Austine , stirre up Edelfred the Wild , ( the Pagan King of Northumberland ) against the Britaines ; whereupon the Infidel Saxon Souldiers , made a most lamentable slaughter of the Britaines , assembled at Westchester ; and that not onely on the Souldiers prepared to fight , but on the Monks of Bangor assembled for prayer ; of whom they slew twelue hundred , together with Dinooch their Abbot ; all which ( as Ieffery Monmouth saith ) s s Et sic mille ducenti eorum in ipsa die , Martyri● decorati , regni caelestis adepti sunt sedem . Gal●rid . Mon. lib. 11. cap. 13. being that day honoured with Martyrdome , obtained a seat in the Kingdome of Heaven . And this was the wofull issue of their stickling for jurisdiction over other Churches .

PA.

Baronius t t Britanni schismatis rei . Baron . tom. 8. ad ann. 604. nu. 65. calleth the Britaines Schismaticks , for not yeelding to the Pope .

PRO.

The Britaine Church had anciently a u u Cantuariens . Episcopus alterius Orbis Patriarcha dicius est . Berterius in Diatribâ . 2. cap. 4. Patriarke or Primate of her owne like other Provinces ; to him the other Bishops of his Church were subject , and not to the Romane .

PA.

The Nic●n Councel condemned the Quartadecimans ( and in them your Britaines ) for Hereticks , x x Three Conv●rsions of England , p●●t . 1. ch●p . 3. nu. 13. & ●4 . saith Parsons .

PRO.

To his testimonie , we oppose the Iudgement of a Frier minorite who expressely y y Amand Xierxiens apud Antiquit. Britan. in Augustino pag. 48. Britones ●uerunt Catholici . calleth them Catholikes . Besides , had that famous Councell of Sardice , held our British Bishops for Hereticks , they had never admitted them to give sentence in that Councel , as they did : z z Britanniarum Episcopi se ad magnum Sardicum Conci●●um cōtul●●unt . Athanas. Apolog 2. to . 2. for by name , Restitutus Bishop of London , a a Athanas. ibid. pag. 407. subscribed thereunto ; and was likewise p●esent at the Synod of Arles in France , as Parsons b b Three C●ntrove●s . part. 1. chap 9. nu. 7. reporteth out of Athanasius .

Againe , those who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely , were of two sorts .

Some as Polycrates , and other Bishops in Asia , kept it so , meerely in imitation of c c Ipsum est quod B. Evangelista Ioannes cum omnibus quibus praerat ecclesijs , celeb●asse legitur . Beda hist. li 3. ca. 25. Saint Iohn the Evangelist ; as an ancient , but yet an indifferent , and mutable rite or tradition ; and these were condemned for Hereticks , and such were our Britaines .

Others kept the fourteenth day , even eo nomine , and by vertue of the Mosaicall law ; holding a necessity of observing that peremptory day , as appointed by Moses● now this was the meanes to bring Iudaisme , which quite abolisheth Christ , and evacuateth the whole Gospel ; like those who amongst the Galathians urged Circumcision , to whom d d Galat. 5 . 2● Saint Paul professeth , that Christ should profit them nothing . And this was it was condemned in the Quarta-decimans : but of this the Britaines were cleere .

They should indeed have conformed themselves to the Councels decree ; yet because that decree was not a decree of Faith ( no farther then it condemned the Necessitie of observing the fourteenth day , and therein condemned the Quarta●decimans ) but a decree of Order , discipline , and uniformity in the Church ; when it was once knowne , and evident , that any particular Church condemned the necessitie of that fourteenth day ; the Church by a connivencie permitted , and did not censure the bare observing of that day .

The same e e Concil. Nicen. Can. 20. Councel decreed , that on every Lords day , from Easter to Whits●ntide , none should pray kneeling , but standing ; wherein the Church ( notwithstanding the decree ) useth the like connivence , not strictly binding every particular Church to doe so ; so long as there is unitie , and agreement in the doctrines of Faith ; the Church useth not to bee rigorous with particular Churches , which are her children , for the varietie and difference in outward rites , though commanded by her selfe , as my learned kinsman f f Dr. Crakanthorp of the Popes temporall Monarchie . Chap. 12. Doctor Crakanthorpe , hath well observed .

PA.

This odds about keeping Easter was but of small weight .

PRO.

It was so , if we consider our Christian g g Galat. 4.9 . libertie in the observation of times ; y●t was it held a matter of that consequence , that Pope Victor h h Omnes Ecclesiae Asiae à Victore excommunicatae fuerint . Bellar. de verbo Dei . lib. 3. cap. 6. Excommunicated all the Churches of Asia , which differed from him in the observation thereof .

PA.

What conclude you from your Britaines Faith ?

PRO.

Vpon the Premises , it followeth ; that seeing the doctrine of the Popes Supremacie over all Churches , was no part of the Britaines Faith when Austine came ; therefore neither was it any part of their Faith in Eleutherius dayes , no nor in the Apostles time neither ; since as Mathew of Westminster saith , i i A ●ide Christi nunquàm recesserant Britannorum reliqu●ae Matth. Westmon . ad an. 586. The Britaines Faith never failed .

Againe , seeing the Britaines Faith , ( k k Convers. part. 1. chap. 9. nu. 3. as Parsons truly affirmeth ) was then ; to wit , at Austines comming , the same which the Romanes , and all Catholike Churches embraced : it further followeth , that the Popes Supremacie , was no materiall part of the Romane Faith , or of any Catholikes , either in Pope Eleutherius time , or in the Apostles dayes ; for had it beene so , the Britaines ( who changed not their Faith , but kept still the substantiall grounds thereof ) would likewise have held the Popes Supremacie ; yea , doubtlesse , those Catholike Bishops of Britaine , had they but knowne and believed ( as now it is given out ) the Pope to be Iure divin● , by divine right , and Gods appointment the Monarch of the whole Church , they would have yeelded obedience to Austine , and in him to the Pope ; but they opposed it as being urged by those of the Romish faction ; so that it was not then , ( as now it is made ) one of the chiefe heads of the Romish Faith : for now a dayes , men are made to believe that out of the Communion of the Romane Church , nothing but hell can be looked for : and subjection to the Bishop of Rome , as to the visible Head of the Vniversall Church , l l V●i●as cùm Capite R●m●no 〈◊〉 s●mper ●uit nota 〈◊〉 ●atholicae . Bell. li. 3 de 〈◊〉 . milit. cap. 2. & 5. — et ●xtravagant Commun . dema●orit . & ●bed . Cap. unam Sanct. Sub●sse R●m . Pontifici omni ●umanae creatur● desinimus omninò esse de necessitate solutis . Is required as a matter necessary to salvation . But this was no part , nor Article of the ancient Britaines Creed , and therefore they withstood it ; and if it were no Article of Faith them , surely it is none now a dayes .

To close up this point : hereby is overthrowne the maine Article of the Romane Creed . For , if ( as the Papists m m ●ulla pij . 4. pro soim● Iuramenti professions fid●i . Dat. Rom. an. 1564. say and sweare ) there be no salvation out of the Romane Communion , then is the case like to goe hard with the one thousand two hundred British Monks of Bangor , stiled Saints and Martyrs , that died out of the Roman Communion , and yet within the Communion of Saints . But this Grand Imposture of the [ now ] Romane Church , is notably discovered by the learned and zealous Bishop of Coventrie and Lichfield , n n Bishop Morton , 〈◊〉 L. Bishop of Durham . Doctor Morton , now Lord Bishop of Durham .

My conclusion shall be this : out of the holy Catholike Church of the Creede , there is no salvation ; but out of the fellowship of the Romane Church there hath beene , and is salvation , as appeares in the case of these our British Martyrs , therefore the present Romane Church is not ( as it is pretended ) the Catholike Church of the old Creede , but a particular of the new Trent Creede .

THE SEVENTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 600. to 700.
PAPIST .

PRoceede to name your men .

PROTESTANT .

I name Gregory the great , whom Bellarmine usually a a Bellar. de Scriptor . eccles. sect. 7. et li. 2. de Euchar . cap. 22. placeth in this seventh Age , for that hee lived unto the yeare 605 , what time ( as Trithemius saith ) b b Trithem . de Script . Eccles. he dyed : Now also lived his Scholler Isidore Bishop of Sivil in Spaine , usually c c Trithem . ibid. — et in praefat. Etymolog . edit Venet . ann. 1583. termed Isidore the younger . Now also by Bellarmine's account ( though others make him much ancienter ) lived Hesychius Bishop of Hierusalem , with other Worthies , as namely the Britaines of Wales , as also Saint Aidan , and Finan , now also was held the sixth Generall Councell .

PA.

I challenge Saint Gregory , hee is ours .

PRO.

Gregorie indeed lived in a troublesome time , whiles the Goths and Vandals overranne Italie , and Rome was besieged by the Lombards . There was then also great decay in knowledge , and scarcity of able men to furnish the Church withall ; and few in Italie ( as Baronius saith d d Vt ●aud in promptu esset , qui utriusque linguae peritus esset . Baron . Annal. tom. 8. ann. 593 nu. 62. ) that were skilled both in Greeke and Latine . Yea Gregory himselfe e e Nam no● nec Gr●ecum 〈◊〉 Greg tom. 2. ●p. lib. 9. epist. 69. pro●esseth that hee was ignorant of the Greeke tongue ; yet was he st●led the great , and yet not so great , as godly and modest . It is commonly said of him , That he was the last of the good Bishops of Rome , and the first of the bad ones ; f f Primus Papa et Pontificij Cho●i pre●ult●r , & ultim●● Epis●opus Romanus . And R●ve● . Critic . s●cri li 4. cap. 29. That he was the first Pope , and leader of the Pontifician companies , and the last Bishop of Rome . Hee was supe●stitious in diverse things , hee lived in a declining age , and as in time , so in some truths came short of his predecessours ; yet , he taught not as your Trent Papists doe , but joyned with us in diverse weighty poynts of Religion . g g ●● . Panke● Collectane● out of S. Gregory .

Of the Scriptures sufficiencie , and Canon .

Gregory held the Scriptures sufficiencie , saying , h h In ho● volumine cun●●● q●e aedis●cant s●ripta continentur . Greg. in Ezechiel . li. 1. Hom. 9. tom. 2. Whatsoever serveth for edification , is contayned in the volume of the Scriptures ; i i Flu●nta pl●nissim● , quià de quibuscunque s●rupul● in scriptu●is consilium quaeritur ●ine minoratione ad plenum invenitur . Id in Cant. cap. 5. wherein are all resolutions of doubts fully and plentifully to be found ; they being like a full Spring , that cannot be drawne drye .

Hee approved the vulgar use of the Scriptures , k k Greg lib 4. Ep. 40. ad Theod. 〈◊〉 to. 2. exhorting a Lay-man to study them ; because ( saith hee ) l l Scriptura Epistola Dei ad Creaturam suam . Id. li. 4. ep. 40 Et p●r ●am Deus loquitur omne quod vult . Id. moral . lib. 16. cap 17. tom. 1. they bee as it were Gods Letter or Epistle to his Creature , wherein he reveales his whole minde to him .

And lest any complaine of the difficulty of the Scriptures , he compares them to a m m Scriptura qu●si flu●ius est planus & altus , in quo & Agnu● ambulet , & 〈…〉 epist. ad L●and . cap. 4. Praet●● . in Iob to . 1. River , wherein there are as well shallow Foords for Lambes to wade in , as depths for the Elephant to swim in . And Isidore saith , that n n Vtrisque manet communis , et parvulis , et perfectis . Isidor . de sum . bono lib. 1. cap. 18. the Scripture is common to petty Schollers , and to Proficients . And whereas Heretickes use to alleadge Scripture for themselves ; Gregory saith , o o Greg. Moral . lib. 8. cap. 8. they may bee confuted by Scripture it selfe , even as Goliath was slaine with his owne sword .

Gregory held the bookes of Maccabees Apocryphall ; Wee doe not amisse ( saith p p Ex libri● lic●t non C●nonic●s ( Machabe●r●m testi●●nium pr●feramus Id. moral . li 19 ca. 17. he ) if wee produce a testimony out of the booke of Maccabees , though not Canonicall , yet published for the i●struction of the Church . And Occham accordingly reports Gregories judgement , saying , q q Secundum Gregorium in moralibus liber ●udit● , T●hia , et Macabeo●ū , Ecclesiasticus , atque liber Sapientiae non sunt recipiendi ad confirmandum aliqui● in side . Occam . Dialog. part. 3. tract. 1. lib. 3 c. 16. The booke of Iudith , Tobias , the Maccabees , Ecclesiasticus , and Wisedom , are not to bee received for the confirmation of any doctrine of Faith . Isidore saith , r r In his Apocryphis etsi invenitur aliqua veritas , tamen propter multa fals● , rulla est in e●s canonica authoritas . Isidor . Etymolog . lib 6. cap. 2. In these Apocryphall although there be some truth to be found , yet by reason of the many errours therein , they are not of Canonicall auth●rity .

Of Communion under both kindes ; and number of Sacraments .

Saint Gregory in his Dialogues ( if they be his ) s s In nav● corpus et s●nguinem Redemptoris acceperunt . Greg. Dialog lib. 3. cap. 36 tom. 2. tells us of some that were going to Sea ( some whereof happily were Lay-men ) carryed with them the consecrat●d body and bloud of the Lord in the Ship , and there received it .

And againe , t t Ejus ibi corpus sumitur , cujus caro in po●uii salutem parti●ur ; ejus sangu● non ●am in manus infidelium , sed ad fidelium ora perfunditur . Id. Dial. li. 1.4 . ca. 58. His body is there rec●ived , his flesh is there divided for the peoples salvation ; his bloud is not now powred out upon the hands of Infidels , but into the mouth of the Faithfull . Hee speakes expressely of the Faithfull , and of the people .

And in his Homily touching the Passeover he saith , u u Quid sit sa●gu● Agni , non jam audiendo , sed bi●endo didicistis ; qui sanguis super utrumque pos●em poni●ur , quando non solum Ore Corporis , sedetiam Ore Cordis ha●●itur . Id. in Sab. Paschae Homil. 22. tom. 2. What is meant by the bloud of Christ , you have now learned , not by hearing of it , but by drinking of it ; which bloud is then put on both posts , when it is drawne in both by the mouth of the body , and of the heart . Herein Gregory resembles the partaking of Christ's bloud in the Eucharist , to the bloud of the Paschall Lambe in the twelfth of Exodus , striken upon both po●ts of the doore : thereby noting the mouth and the heart , each whereof after their manner receive Christ : for with the mouth and corporally wee receive the wine , which is the Sacrament of his bloud ; and with our heart , and by faith we receive the thing Sacramentall , the bloud it selfe .

Besides , hee speakes expressely of drinking , and the termes hee useth , hauritur and perfunditur , That Christ's bloud is shed , and taken as a draught , demonstrate , that he speaks not of partaking Christ's bloud , as it is joyned to his body , and inclosed in his veines , but as severed from it ; as my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly hath x x The Grand Sacriledge , sect. 7. observed .

Isidore sai●h , y y Vt charita●e omnes reconcil●at● inv●cem dignè sacramento corpori● et sanguinus Christi consocientur . Isidor . de Divin . Offi● . lib. 1. cap. 15. The fourth prayer is brought in for the kisse of Peace , that all b●ing reconciled by charity , may joyne in the worthy participation of Christs body and bloud . Omnes , all ; the people as well as the Priests .

Isidore saith , z z Sunt autem Sacramenta ●aptismus et chrisma , corpus & sang●is Ch●ist● . Isid. Origin sive Etymolog . lib 6. cap. 19. These be th● Sacraments , to wit , Baptisme and Chrysme , and the body and bloud of Christ . Now with Baptisme he joynes Chrysme , because their manner was to annoint those who were baptized .

Of the Eucharist .

Isidore saith , a a Sed panis , quià confirmat corpus , ideò corpus Christi nun ●upatur ; vtaum autem quià sanguinem operatur in c●rne , ideò ad sanguinem Christi re●ertur — haec autem duo sunt visibilia sanctificata tamen per S S. in Sacramentum divini corporis transeunt . Isidor . de Offic. Ecclesiast. lib. 1. cap. 18. Bread because it strengtheneth the body , is therefore called Christs body ; and wine , because it worketh bloud in the flesh , it hath therefore relation to the bloud of Christ : but these two being sanctified by the Holy Ghost , are changed into a Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ . He saith , Christ called bread his body , to wit , Sacramentally , a signe , a Sacrament of his body , and not Substantially : he saith , Bread is changed into a Sacrament of Christs body , which notes a Sacramentall Conversion , and not Substantiall : he saith , Bread strengthens mans body , bread Substantially , and not Accidentallie , so that it is not the roundnesse , or figure of bread that strengthens mans body , nor the colour of wine that is turned into bloud .

Hesychius saith , b b Comedimus a●●em nunc cibum , sumentes ●jus memoriam pass●onis . Helych . in Levit. lib. 1. c. 2. We eate this food by receiving the memorie of his Passion : not of his Glory , but of his Passion : the same Author saith , c c Mysterium di●itur , quod simul panis & 〈◊〉 est . Id. Ibid. lib. 2. cap. 8. Our mysterie is both bread and fl●sh , to wit , bread in substance , and indeed ; and Christs body , not in substance , but in a mystery .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Gregorie allowed onely an d d Greg. Epist. 109. ad Se●en . ep lib. 7 tom 2. Historicall use of Images ; otherwise he speakes positively , that e e Adorare ve●ò Imagines , omnibus modis d●vita . Id. l. 9. ep. 9. The worshipping of Images , is by all meanes to bee avoided : and though hee misliked the breaking of them , yet he commended those that forbad the adoration of them : yea he commands the people to f f In ad●ratione solius T●initat● humiliter prost●●nantur . Id. ibid. Kneele and bow downe to the omnipotent Trinitie onely : and therefore not too , or before an Image . And Cassander saith , g g Non ut adore●tur , sed ut imperiti picturis i●spiciendis , ●aud alitèr ac literis legendis , rerum gestarum admoncre●tur , et ad pietatem incitarentur . Cassand . Consult . 21. that Gregorie therein declared the judgement of the Romane Church , to wit , that Images are kept not to be adored , and worshipped ; but that the ignorant by beholding those Pictures , might as by written records , be put in mind of what hath beene formerly done , and be thereupon stirred up to Pietie .

Concerning Prayer , as wee finde in Gregorie very rarely any prayer to Saints ; so unto the Virgine Mary not any one . Which we may conceive he would not have omitted , if he had believed , as divers Papists maintaine : That she is a Savioresse , a Mediatresse : h h An non apertè s●ribit Gabr. Riel [ in Can. li. ● . ] patrem caelestem dimidium Regni sui dedisse B. Virgini Caelorum Reginae , idque in Esther significatum ●uisse . Cassand . de Offic. boni vi●i & Consult . Art. 21. That as Assuerus offered halfe of his kingdome to Queene Esther ; so Christ reserving the kingdome of Iustice to himselfe , hath granted the other moitie , the kingdome of mercie to his mother .

PA.

Was not Invocation of Saints used in the Church-service in Saint Gregories dayes .

PRO.

Be it so , that some such devotions were used in his time , yet in the ancient Missals , there is no such forme to be found . In them indeed the Saints names in their Anniversarie solemnities , and Holydayes , were remembred , and put into their Memento , but they were not praied unto , men praied only to God , that he would give them grace to follow their examples , and make them partakers of that happinesse which those blessed ones already enjoyed ; and at that time , when this alteration began , and that the Gregorian forme tooke place , the Invocation was not brought into the Liturgie , and publike prayers of the Church in Direct forme , but men prayed still unto God onely , though desiring him the rather to respect them , for that not onely their brethren on earth , but they also that are in heaven , cease not to pray for them : neither is there any other forme of prayer found in the missall , but in the Sequences and Litanies onely , i i Doctor Field , of the Church , lib. 3. cap. 20. saith Learned Doctor Field . Gregorie indeeed k k O●d navi● Missale & Gradua●e , & Antiphonarium . 〈◊〉 de Vorag● serm. ●1 de Greg. 1. Gregor. subjunxit postulationes , di●sque nostros in tu● pace disponas . Cassand . Liturg. c. 21. Pamel . Liturg pag. 656. tom. 1. added some things to the Canon ; the Alle-lujah , the Kyrie Ele●son , Lord have mercie upon us : the Orizon , Di●sque nostros in pace disponas , Give peace in our times O Lord , together with other Collects . But I doe not find either in Cassander or Pamelius their Liturgies , that Gregorie brought in any direct forme of Prayer to Saints . Afterward● , l l Trith●m● de script . Eccles . Nocherus the Abbot , who lived about the yea●e eight hundred and fifty , m m Abbas Nocherus de S. Gallo Sequentias pro●neumis composuit . Cassand . Liturg cap 21. composed the Sequences , and so when the ancient Missalls were abandoned , it is no marvaile if Invocation of Saints stept up in their place .

Lastly , the forme and manner of Saintly Invocation used about the yeare 600 , in Saint Gregories dayes , differeth extreamely from that which was used by Papals in later times , as may appeare by these instances following . The Hymne of Thomas Becket runnes thus in the n n H●r●e B. Mariae ad usum Sarum . Salisbury Primer : Tu per Thomae sanguinem , Quem pro te impendit ; Fac nos Christe scandere , Quò Thomas ascendit . By the bloud of Thomas , Which for thee he did spend ; Make us thither O Christ to climbe , Whither Thomas did ascend .

To the blessed Virgin they o o Offic B. Mariae pi● v. ●ussu edit And the Office of the B. Virgin , according to the reformed Latine at Saint Omers . 1621. pray : Maria mater gratiae , Mater misericordiae ; Tu nos ab hoste protege , Et horâ mortis suscipe . Mary , mother of heavens grace , Mother , where mercie hath chiefe place . From cruel Foe , our soules defend , And them receive , when life shall end .

The Crosse is likewise devoutly saluted in this q q Breviar . Rom. Sabbat. infra . Hebd●m . 4. Quadrages . manner . O Crux ave spes unica , Hoc passionis tempore ; Auge pijs justitiam , Reisque dona veniam . All Haile O Crosse , our onely hope , In this time of the passion : Encrease thou justice to the godly , And give to sinners pardon .

Of Faith and Merits .

Hesychius saith , r r Gratia verò ex misericordià , atque compassione praebetur , & fide comprehenditur sol● , non ex operibus . Hesych . in Levit. li. 4 cap. 14. The grace of God is given onely of mercie and favour , and is embraced and received by onely Faith .

Gregorie held not justification by inherent righteousnesse ; for speaking even of the second justification , hee teacheth , that we are justified before God , freely by grace : s s Iustus igitur Advocatus nos●er , justos nos de●endet in 〈◊〉 ; qui● nosm●tipsos ●ognos●●mus & ac●●samus in justos . Greg. tom. 2 in Ezech ad finem . Our just advocate ( saith he ) will in judgement defend us for just , if so bee wee know and accuse our selves to bee unrighteous and unjust .

He confesseth , t t Omnis humana justitia injustitia esse convincitur , si districte judi●etur . Id. lib. 9. Mor. cap. 14. That all our righteousnesse is manifestly proved to be unrighteousnesse , if once it bee strictly examined according to justice . Hee accounts a mans best actions imperfect , u u Ipsa nostra per●ectio culp● non ●a●et , nisi han● severus Iud●ae in subtili lan●e examinis misericordit●r ponsite● . Id. Moral . lib. 5. c. 8● & l. 29 c● 9. and unable to abide the Iudges triall , unlesse hee weigh them by the scale of his mercie .

Isidore saith , x x Cathari propter munditiam it● se nominarunt ; gloriantes enim de suis meritis negant p●eniton●ibus veniam peccatorum Isidor . li. 8. orig. five E●●molog . cap. 5. it was noted a propertie in the Catherists , or ancient Puritans , to glorie of their merits .

Gregorie held not Merit of Condignitie , but appealed to the court of M●cie , saying , y y Ad vitam non ex meriti● , sed ex veni● convales●o . Gregor Mor. lib. 9. cap. 14. Et de solà misericordiâ tua praesumens impetrare quod non de meritis meis spero . Id. in Psal. 1. Poenitent● tom. 2. I grow on to eternall life , not by the merit of my works , but by the pardon of my sinnes , presuming to obtaine that by the onely mercie of God , which I dare not hope for by my owne deserts ; and hereof , as also of the imperf●ction of our works , he gives a good reason , saying , z z Mala nostra pu●a mala 〈◊〉 , ●●na verò quae nos habere credimus pura bona esse nequaquàm possunt . Id. Mor. lib. 35. cap. ult. that the evill that is in us is simply evill ; but the good that we thinke we have , it is not absolutely pure , and simply good : a a Quamlibe● rectis operibus insud●mus , veram munditiam nequaquam apprehendimus , sed imitamur . Id. Mor. lib. 9. c. 28. So that how much soever we travaile in good works , we never attaine to true puritie , but onely imitate it .

And this may suffice to shew what religion Saint Gregorie professed ; other testimonies may be seene in Master Panks Collectanea out of Saint Gregorie , and Saint Bernard , shewing that in most fundamentall poynts they are ours .

PA.

Gregorie b b De quibusdam levibus culpis esse ante judicium purgatorius ignis , credendus est . Greg. tom 2. Dial. lib. 4 cap. 39. held a Purgatorie for some smaller faults .

PRO.

He held not your Purgatorie ; his was onely for veniall and light faults ; yours is for such as have not c c Propter satisfactionem pro Mortalibus remissis non plen●egrave ; expletam . Bellar. de purg●t . l. 1. c. 3. § Hinc . fully satisfied for the temporall punishment due to their mortall sinnes . Againe , his differeth from yours in situation , for you place yours in some quarter bordering on hell : but Gregorie d d Id. ibid. lib 4 cap. 40. & 55. tells us of certaine soules that for their punishment , were confined to Bathes , and such other places here on earth .

Besides , Gregorie in his Dialogues , whence you would prove your Purgatorie , tells many strange tales ; as , of one Stephen a Priest , e e Dial. l. 3. c. 20. who had the Devill so serviceable to him , as to draw off his hose : of f f Dial. l. 1. c. 8. Boniface that wanting money , procured divers crownes of our Lady , and such like stuffe : insomuch that your Canus saith , g g Gregorius in Dialogis quaedam miracula scribit vulgò ●ac●ata & credita , quae hujus presertim saeculi Aristarchi esse censebunt . Can. loc. Theol. lib. 11. cap. 6. Gregorie in his Dialogues hath published such miracles , commonly received and believed , which the censurers of this Age will thinke to be doubtfull and uncertaine .

Besides , Gregorie had his Purgatorie , and Soule masses from visions , h h Dial. l 4. c. 55. and feigned apparitions of Ghosts , i i Deut. 18. v. 11 , 12. which the Scripture holds unwarrantable .

And yet Gregorie upon occasion of that place of Ecclesiastes , k k Eccles. 11.3 . If the tree fall towards the South , or the North , where it falls there it shall bee , makes another inference ; namely this : l l In die mortis suae justus ad Austrum cadit peccator ad Aq●●lonem ; qui● et justus per ●ervorem spiritu● ad gaudi● ducit●● ; & peccator cum Apostata Angelo in frigido suo corde reprobatur . Greg. Mor. lib. 12. cap. 3. The just one in the day of his death falleth South-ward , and the sinner North-ward ; for the just by the warmth of the spirit , is carried into blisse , but the sinner with the revolting Angel , in his benummed heart , is reprobated and cast away . And m m Olympiodor . in ca. 11 Ecclesiast. Olympiodore who lived about the yeare 500 , makes the very same inference ; and Gregorie elswhere to the same purpose saith , n n Cùm humani casus tempore , ●ive sanslus , ●ive malignus spiritus egredientem animam claus●ra carnis , acceperit , in aeternùm secum sine ullà permutatione retinebit , ut nec ●xaltat● ad supplicium pr●rua● , nec mersa aeternis supplicijs , ultra ad remedium ereptionis ascendat . Greg. moral . lib. 8. cap. 13. that at the time of a mans dissolution , either the good or evill spirit rec●ives the soule as it comes out of the cloyster of the body ; and there without any change at all , for ever retaines it : that being on●e exalted , it can never come to be punished : and being pl●nged into eternall paine , can never thence be delivered .

Now if ( according to these testimonies ) after death there be no deliverance ; but that the soule for ever remaines in that degree and order wherein death takes it : if there be no change after this life ( such as the Papists imagine theirs to be from the paines of Purgatorie , to the joyes of heaven ) surely then there can be no Purgatory , nothing but heaven or hel , whither they that come abide for ever . Now let us see what Gregorie held touching the Supremacie .

PA.

Gregorie maintained his Supremacie , did hee not ?

PRO.

Whatsoever he did , Stapleton strives to uphold it , by corrupting a place in Gregorie , who speaking of Saint Peter and other Apostles , saith , o o Q●id aliud quàm s●●gularium sunt plebium c●pita ? & tame● sub uno capite omnes membra sunt Ecclesiae . Greg. lib. 4. Epist. 38. that they were all members of the Church , under one Head , meaning Christ ; as his owne words make it cleere . Now Stapleton , to make the Pope Head of the Church , citeth the words thus : p p Singularium plebium capita , sub uno Capite Petro . Stapleton . princip. Doctrinal . lib. 6. cap. 7. They are all members of the Church , under one head Peter , shuffling in the name Peter : but for Saint Gregorie , hee knew not your moderne papall Supremacie , and when the See of Constantinople challenged the stile of Vniversall Bish●p , he opposed it .

PA.

He might dislike it in another , and yet claime it hims●lfe .

PRO.

He disclaimed it in any whosoever . Now so it was , Iohn Bishop of Constantinople , seeing the Emperors seate , translated thither , and other Provinces governed by Lievtenants , as also Rome besieged by the Lumbards , thought this a fit season for the advancement of his chayre , that the Imperiall City should also have the high●st chayre in the Church ; as the Emperour counted himselfe Lord of the World , so he would be stiled q q 〈…〉 Greg● . lib 4. ●p. 3● . Oecumenicall , or Vniversall Patriarke in the Church .

Now when Iohn affected this Title , Gregorie complained not , that he wrong'd his See , by usurping that stile , as if it had belonged to the Pope ; but hee mislikes the transc●●dent power claymed by that stile , and he calls it r r 〈…〉 Id. lib 4 ep. 32. 〈…〉 Id. lib. 4. ep. 36. A stile of noveltie , and prophannesse , such as never any godly man , nor any of his predecessors ever used : s s Absit● 〈◊〉 Christianorum nomen 〈◊〉 Blasphemiae . Id. li 4 ep. 32. A name of Bl●sphemie , t t Contrà E●●ngelicam sent●a●am B. petrum Ca●●numque statuta . Id. lib. 4. ep 34. A thing contrarie to the Churches Canons , to Saint Peter , and to the holy Gospels .

Yea , he pronounceth any one that should presume to challenge the for●said title , To be the u u Ego si●entur di●● , quisqu●●e u●●versa , em Sacerdot●m 〈◊〉 , vel vo●ari des●●e●at in ●latione su● 〈…〉 quia 〈…〉 praepacit . I● . lib 6. epist. 30. very for●runner of Antichrist , because herein hee lifts himselfe above his brethren .

PA.

Gregorie forbore this Title in humilitie , x x Ill●d recusavit , ad ●acili●s com●rimend●m super●ia● Episcopi Constantin●p . B●ll de ●ont . lib. 2 c. ult. § Re●pondeo . thereby to represse Iohns insolencie .

PRO.

This is , as if a King should renounce his Royall Title , to the end that a Rebell challenging it , might disclaime it .

Gregorie indeed was an humble man , and ( as one saith of him ) Mi●●s capi●b●t sola●●ax m●ibus divitijs , & 〈…〉 quam ●remita quid●● ex Fele 〈◊〉 . Ioan. 〈◊〉 ule●us in Festo omn●um S. Ser. 2. When he was in his Iollitie , and Pontificalibus , hee was not so much delighted therewith , as an Hermit was with his Cat , that he used to play withall in his Cell .

Gregorie indeed z z Vt ●t ●umilitatem 〈…〉 in mente , et tamen 〈…〉 d●gnitatem 〈◊〉 i●●ono●e . Greg. l●b. 4. e●ist . 36. professeth to bee humble in mind , but still so , as to preserve the honour of his place . Gregorie would lose nothing of his freehold I warrant you .

PA.

Gregorie found fault with this Title , in the sense that Iohn desired so to be universall and sole Bishop : and the rest to be his a a Vt alij non sint Episcopi , sed Vicarij . Bell. de Pont. li. 2. cap. ult. Vicars or Deputies .

PRO.

It is not likely the Bishop of Constantinople ( though he were a proud man ) would keepe all others from being bishops ; that is , that they should neither ordaine Priests , nor excommunicate , nor absolve , nor sit in Counsell , but himselfe alone doe all . Besides if Iohn had sought this , surely the Greeke Bishops who consented to Iohns title of being their universall Patriarcke ( in respect of Order , though not of Iurisdiction ; ) would never have yeelded to have made themselues onely Vicars to that one bishop , and so deprive themselves of al Episcopall Iurisdiction . Yea the same bishops , though they submitted themselves to the bishop of Constantinople , and approved his Title , yet notwithstanding they exercised their ancient Iurisdiction over their severall Sees ; they were not degraded by Iohn , or his Successor Cyriacus , both which affected that Title .

The true and undoubted meaning then of Gregorie , ( as his words b b Vt et nulli subesse , ●t solus omnibus praeesse videretur . Gregor. lib. 4. epist. 38. import ) was this ; namely , that Gregorie ( by impugning the Title of Vniversall bishop ) would have no Bishop so principall , as to make all others , as members subject to his Head-ship : and is not the charge of bishops at this day under the Papacie , for the most part Ti●ular , they being wholly at the Popes becke .

PA.

Was the Title of Vniversall Bishop so odious .

PRO.

It was , in that sense which Gregory taxed in the bishop : oth●rwise , neither he , nor wee mislike such Vnive●sall bishops , as with Saint Paul , c c 2. Corinth. 11.28 . Have the care of all Churches , and in this respect godly bishops when they meete in Councels , and in their owne Diocesses ; whiles by their wholesome advice , admonition , or reproofe ; by their writing , or teaching ; they instruct others in the truth , prevent Schisme , and stop the mouth of Heresie ; may be called Bishops of the Vniversall Church . Thus was d d 〈…〉 2 p●g. 419. Athanasius called a Bishop of the Catholike Chu●ch , not as it precisely signifieth Vniv●rsall , but rightly beleeving , or holding the Catholike Faith .

PA.

What conclude you out of all this ?

PRO.

That which maketh strongly against the Papacie . For now a dai●s , this Stile of Vniversall Bishop ( which Gregorie held to b●e the Harbinger of Antichrist ) is brought in as a maine proofe of the Popes Supremacie . e e 〈…〉 2 de 〈…〉 31.

Neither could Gregorie restraine his Successors from bearing this Title : for Boniface the third , who next save one succeeded Gregorie f f 〈…〉 Plat. in Boni●●● . 3. Obtained of Phocas the Emperour , not without great contention , that the See of Rome should bee call●d the head of all Churches , being the same place of preheminence in ●ffect which Iohn in Gregories time so much affected .

Now by this the Reader may perceive , and that from the tongue and pen of one of their best Popes , that were since his time ; that in Gregories judgement , his successours that enjoy this swelling Title , and transcendent power are proved to be Antichristian Bishops .

Lastly , the Reader may observe , who it was that gave the Pope this jurisdiction ; it was even that usurper Phocas , g g 〈…〉 W●●●monast . ad An. 6●● . who murthered his master Maurice the Emper●ur , and then conf●rred this prophane Title on Pope Boniface ; a fit Chapleine for such a Pa●ron .

Hitherto wee have treated of Saint Gregories Faith , and visited the Colledge of Bangor , the Foundation whereof is ascribed to King Lucius , from whose time unto the entra●ce of Austine the Monke 438. yeares were ●xpired ; In all which space the Christian Faith was both taught , and imbraced in this Iland , notwithstanding the continuall persecutions of the Romans , Huns , Picts , and S●xons ; which last made such desolation in th● outward face of the Church , that they drove the Chri●●●●n bishops into the Deserts of Cornwaile , and h h Tu●● Archipraesu●e● Theonus Lond●niens . & Th●●ioc●●● E●●racens . c●m omnes 〈◊〉 sibi subd●●●● solo t●nus . 〈◊〉 vi●isse●t in Cam 〈…〉 ●iffugeruat . M●th . Westm●● ad An. 586. M. Speeds Hist. lib. 6. ch. 9. sect. 20. Wa●es ; in which number were the bishops of London and Yorke . Now by their labours the Gospell was repla●ted amongst the Inhabitants of those vast Moun●taines ; and farther spread it selfe into these Northerne parts , what time as Edwin and Oswald Kings of Northumbe●land sent for Saint Aidan and Finan into Scotland to convert their Subjects to the i i Bed● Hist. lib. 3. ca. 3. Faith .

PA.

What were this Aidan and Finan ?

PRO.

They were the worthy instruments which the Lord raised up for the good of our countrey , for by the ministery of k k Beda lib. 3. Hist. cap. 3. & 6. Aidan was the kingdome of Northumberland recovered from Paganisme : ( whereunto belonged then , beside the shire of Northumberland , and the lands beyond it unto Edenborrough , Frith , Cumberland also and Westmoreland , Lancashire , Yorkshire , and the Bishopricke of Durham : ) And by the meanes of l l Id. ibi● . cap. 21● 22 , 24 Finan , not onely the kingdome of the East-Saxons ( which contained Essex , Middlesex , and halfe of Hertfordshire ) regained , but also the large kingdome of Mercia , with the shires comprehended under it , was first converted unto Christianitie ; so that these two for their extraordinarie holinesse , m m Id. ibid. cap. 3 , 4 , 5● 17 , 26. and painefulnesse in preaching the Gospel were ●xceedingly reverenced by all that knew them ; Aidan especially , n n Vade ab omnibus eti●am his qui de Pascha alitèr sentiebant , meritò diligebatur Aidanus ; nec solùm ● medio●ribus , v●rùm ab ipsis qu●que Episcopis , Honorio Cantu●rioru●● , et Felice O●iental●um Angl●rum venerationi habitu● est . Id. ibid. cap. ●5 . Who although hee could not keepe Easter ( saith Bede ) contrary to the manner of them which sent him , yet hee was carefull diligently to performe the works of Faith , Godlin●sse and Love , after the manner used by all holy men ; whereupon hee was worthily beloved of all , even of them also who thought otherwise of Easter than hee did , and was reverenced not onely of the meaner ranke , but of the Bishops themselves , Honorius of Canterbury , and Felix of the East-Angles .

In this Age also was held the sixt generall Councell at Constantinople , summoned by the Emperours o o Secundùm Imperial●● 〈◊〉 congr●●●ta est . C●●anza in Sum. Concil. commandement : it was called against the heresie of the Monothelites , and therein Honorius the Pope was p p Honorio 〈◊〉 A●athem● Act. 13. & 16. accursed for a Monothelite .

It was the●e also q q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Co●cil . 6 in 〈◊〉 habit . 〈◊〉 36● p. 401. ex edit . Io. 〈◊〉 . decreed that the See of Constantinople should enj●● equall priviledges with the See of Rome .

And whereas some Canons were alleadged for restraint of Priests marriage , they were opposed by this Councel ; and the Church of Rome is in expresse termes r r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ibid. c●● 13 p. 374 taxed for urging them . And upon paine of deposition to the gainsayers , it was decreed ; s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Ibid. p. 374. That the marriage of Ecclesiasticall persons was a thing lawfull : and that their conjugall cohabitation stood with the Apostolike Canons , was an ancient tradition , and orderly constitution . And in case continencie were enjoyned , it was not perpetuall , but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , in the proper turnes , or courses of their ministery : so that the restraint of Priests from marrying , neither is , nor ever was conceived to be ( t t Bishop Andrews Answer to Cardin. Per●on●s Reply . pag. 10. saith learned bishop Andrews ) but Positivi juris , which being restrained upon good reason , it might upon as good reason be released ; and Pope Pius the second , was of opinion , u u Sace●d●tibus magnà r●ti●ne 〈◊〉 nupt●●s , 〈…〉 vider● . 〈…〉 2 vit● . That there was better reason to release them , then to restraine them ; and so were divers other at the Councell of Trent , if there had beene faire play ; and yet Iesuit x x 〈…〉 Coster 〈◊〉 de C●lib . Sacerd. pr●p . 9. Coster holds , that a Priest offends greatly if he commit fornication : Gravius tamen peccat , but he offends more grievouslie if he marry .

PA.

This Councel was neither the Sixt , nor generall .

PRO.

Caranza , and Balsamon call it both sixth and generall . 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . R●●s . Com. 〈…〉 O●h●rs call it , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Quini-sextum . We grant indeed ( that to speake precisely ) the sixt Synod under Constantine the fourth published no Canons ; but afterwards divers of the same Fathers , which had formerly met in the sixt Synod , they and others , to the number of 227 , being called together by the then penitent and restored Emperour Ius●inian , gathered up , and set for●h the Canons formerly made , and by them re-enforced : and Balsamon z z

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Balsam●n Photij Nomocan . ex edit . Tilij pag. 359.

— totius Synodi Rom. Ecclesiae vicem gerentes . Bals. in Phot. Nomoc. lat. edit . Par. 1561.

saith , that Basilius Bishop of Gortyna , the Metropolis of Creete , ( which was then under the Arch-bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Ravenna , were there to represent the Roma●e Church .

The truth is , your Romanists cannot endure t●is G●eeke Councel , because it sets the Patriarke of Constantinople , cheeke by joule with the Romane Bishop .

In a word , if some Canons of this Councel be justly excepted against , this mak●s not against us ; for wee warrant not all that goes u●d●r tha● Councels name ; nor them that once spoke truth from ever erring .

And it seemes Gratian he Monke hath beene a tampering with the Canon alleadged ; for in one of Gratians Editions , we reade thus : a a Non tamen in ecclesiasticis rebus magni●icetu● ut illa . Decret. p●rt . 1. Dist. 23. Renov . Edit. Par. 1507. Let not Constantinople bee magnified as much as Rome in matters Ecclesiasticall : and in another , b b Nec non in Eccles. magnificetur ut illa . Edit. ●aris . 1585. [ Nec non ] sic emendatum est ex aliquot MSS. & Graeco ; anteà enim legebatur ; non tamen . Glossa ibid. Let Constantinople be advanced as well as Rome .

And now have we surveyed the first sixe generall Councels , and found them to have beene c c Licet universalia Concilia saepe legam●● convocata per Imperatores , im● omnia octo u● ex gestis haberi po●est . Cusan● de concord . Cathol. li. 2. ca. 2. called by the Emperour , and not by the Pope ; and yet d d Pontificis est , non Imperatoris congregare ●yn●dum generalem . Bellar. de Concil. li. 1. ca. 12. Bellarmine now a dayes denyes this power to godly Princes , and would conferre it on the Pope .

THE EIGHTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 700. to 800.
PAPIST .

WHat say you to this eighth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

This Age was beholden to our nation which a a Venerabili● Beda Pr●s●yter Anglus , floruit anno 720. Bellar. de script . eccles. afforded such worthies , as venerable Bede , the honour of England , and mirrour of his time for learning ; as also his b b Al●ninus sive Albinus natione Anglus● S Bed● quo●dam auditor , cujus Alcuini minis●erio ipse Imperator omnibus libe●alium artiam disciplinis initiar● satagebat●●la●uit an . 770. Trithem . de script . eccles. Scholler Alcuinus , counted one of the Founders of the Universitie of Paris , and Schoole-master to Charles the Great ; by whom , or his procurement were written tho●e Libri Carolini , King Charles his bookes , opposing the second Nicen Synod which stood for Image worship . Now also lived Antonie the Monke , and Damascen , one that laid the foundation of Schoole-divinitie among the Greekes , as Peter Lombard afterward did among the Latines : he was indeed a Patron of Image-worship , yet in some other things he was Orthodoxe , and in those we comply with him . Now also was held a famous Councel at Constantinople in the East , and another at Frankford in the West , both of them opposing the second Nicen Synod .

Now also lived Adelbert of France , Samson of Scotland , and Claudius Clemens of the same nation , Bishop of Auxer●e in France : c c Adelb●r●●s , & Clemen● , & Sampson●●t complures alij ● B●ni●ac●o dissenserunt , quod re●iqut●rum venerationem , sta●aarum a lorationem , purgator●um praelica●et , & Sacerdotum conjugium ab●●garet . ●ist . M●gdeb●rg . Centur. 8. c. 8. p. 534. & Cent. 8. c. 10. p. 776. Catalog . Test ver. lib. 8. & ve●er . Epist. Hibernicorum Sylloge Epist. 15. & ep. 17. Th●se with others oppos●d Boniface the Popes factour , whiles he sought to stablish Papall Supremacie , adoration of Reliques and Images , Pargatorie , prayer for ●he dead ; and to impose single life on the Cl●rgie ; and for ●his they were persecuted under Pope Zacharie with bonds and imprisonment .

Aventin● sai●h , d d Alber●us Gallus , & eju●dem sectae Sacerdotes atque Episcopi — D● B●nifacio adversari vehementissimè c●●perunt . Aventin . Annal. Boior . lib. 3. pag. 218. ●ha● Albertus Gallus , and other Bishops and Priest● of his sect ( so calls he the way after which they worship●●od ) did mightily withstand this Boniface , or Winifrid an Eng●i●●●an bishop of Me●tz .

Toward the la●er end of this Age there lived , though they flourished in the ninth Age , Iacob . Frisius in Biblioth. Philosophic● ad ann. 790. & B●laeus centu● . 14 cap. 32 33. Claudius Clemens Scotus , as also Ioannes Mailrosius Scotus , called Madrosius , haply for that he lived in the Monastery of Mailros , planted by bishop Aidan , and his followers in Northumberland , where also Saint Cuthbert had his education .

PA.

I claime Saint Bede for one of ours .

PRO.

You will lose your claime , for though he were tainted with superstition , and slipt into the corruptions of the Times wherin he lived , Beleeving and reporting divers Fabulous Miracles , and incredible Stories , as some of your owne men haue f f Beda vulgò ●acta●a miracula scribit . Canus Loc. Theolog. li. 11. c. 6. censured him ; neither doe we defend all hee wrot ; yet in divers maine grounds of Religion , he was an Adversarie to your Trent Faith .

Bede was a Priest , he lived in the Monasterie of Saint Peter and Saint Paul at Weere-mouth neere Durham : A great Clerke , and writer of the English Story .

Alcwin , or Alwin , was a Yorke-shiere man , as appeares by his name Alwin which in these parts continues to this day ; He was i i Godwins Catologue of the Bishops of England Keeper of the Library at Yorke , erected by Archbishop Egber● : He was also Schoole-master to Rabanus , and in great k k In tanta ●amiliar●tate apud eum habitus , & Imp●ratoris Magister deliciosus ●aerit appellatu● , Trith●m . Ibid. favour with his Pupill Carolus Magnus , whom hee perswaded to found the Vniversitie of Paris . He wrot three bookes of the Trinitie , and Dedicated them to Charles . The Papists charge l l Rursusque aliud Calvini opus ●miserunt sub nomini Alcuini ; Sixt. Senens . in Praefat. suae Biblioth. nu 3. Calvin to have made these bookes , and to have set them forth in Alcuinus name , ( Alcuin and Calvin being all one name by changing the Letters ) but this is untrue , m m D. Iames of the Fathers Co●ruption . part. 4. pag. 50. since both the note of the beginning and ending of this booke is to be seene in an anc●ent Manuscript in Lincolne Colledge ; and the very Copie it selfe written ( as it may be conjectured ) above five hundred yeeres agoe , is to be seene in the Princes Library at Saint Iames.

Besides that , my selfe have seene n n Homiliae Doctor jussu Caroli M. & Alcuin de Trinitate . Lugd. 1525. Alcwin's booke of the Trinitie , Printed in the yeare 1525. whereas Calvin ( by o o Bellar. de script . ●ccles . in Chronolog . Bellarmines account ) shewed not himselfe untill the yeere 1538.

Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon .

Damascen saith ; p p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Damascen . de Orthodox . fide . lib 1 cap. 1. Whatsoever is delivered unto us in the Law , and the Prophets , by the Apostles and Evangelists ; that wee receive , acknowledge and reverence : and besid●s these wee require nothing else . The same Damascen numbers all those bookes , and those onely as Canonicall , that we doe ; and addeth , That q q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. lib. 4. cap. 18. the Bookes of Wisdome and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach are good Bookes , and containe good Lessons ; but that they are not numbred in this account , neither were layd up in the Arke .

And our Alcuinus , Abbot of Saint Martins at Tours in France , writing against Elipantus bishop of Toledo , tels him that he urged authori●ies out of the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach : but ( saith he r r Quem librum ● . Hi●ron● atque Isidorus inter Apocryphas , id est dubias Scripturas deputatum esse absque dubitatione testantur . Alcuin . advers. Elipant . lib. 1. pa. 941. Edit. Paris . 1617. ) Saint Hierome and Isidore doe testi●ie , that without question it was to be reputed amongst the Apocryphall and doubtfull Bookes .

Of Communion under both kinds , and the number of Sacraments .

Charles the Great saith , s s Corpori● & sanguinis Dominici myst●rium quod quotidiè in Sa●ramen●o à fidelibus sumitur . Lib●i Carolini de Imaginib . li. 4. cap. 14. The mystery of the body and bloud of Christ is daily received by the faithfull in the Sacrament . of his ●lesh and bloud in ●anis ac vini figurâ , in the figure o● bread and wine . And that ●he Sacrament is in it owne na●ure br●ad and wine , but the body and bloud of Christ by Mysticall and Sacrame●tall relation hee shewes in the same termes as Isidore did before him , and Rabanus after him . Becaus● bread ( saith c c Qu●●●rgò ●ani● carn●m con●i●mat , vi●um 〈◊〉 sangu●●●m operatur in ca●ne , hi● ad ●orpas Chris●i 〈◊〉 , il●ud re●ertur ad ●a●guin●m Id. Ib●d. Bede ) confirmes the b●dy , and wine doth worke bloud in the flesh ; therefore the one is mystically ref●rred to the body of Christ , the other to his bloud .

But to leave particular men , we have the suffrage of a whole Councel held at Constantinople in the yeare 754 , wherein it was maintained , that d d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Christ chose no other shape or type under heaven to represent his Incarnation by , but the Sacrament 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he delivered to his Ministers for a type and a most effectuall commemoration thereof ; f f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Commanding the substance of bread to bee offered ; and this bread they affirme to be , g g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . a true Image of his naturall flesh . And these assertions of theirs they are to be h h Concil. gener . tom. 3. pag. 599. edit. R●mae . ann. 1012. found in the third tome of the sixth Action of the second Councel of Nice .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Concerning Images , venerable Bede ( as we find him cited by Gerson i i Vndè Bed● , 〈◊〉 omnino prohibentur s●eri ad ●un● v●●elicet sin●m , ut a●orentur , & colantur . Beda , tes●e Ioan●e Ge●s●● p●r● . 2. compen . Theolog. de primo praecepto the Chancellour of Paris ) saith , That Images are not simply forbidden to bee made , but they are utterly forbidden to bee made to this end , to bee worshipped and adored .

Charles the Great ( k k Nil si non ●abentur d●●ogant●●i● , si h●bentur , pr●erogant : ●ùm tamen a●dicat●e quandam in●auta● levitat● afferant , a l●●at●e verò ●ulpa● inurant 〈◊〉 . M. lib. ● . advers. S●nod . 〈…〉 C●ssand●om Cons●l●●ar●●● 2● . de cultu Sanct. as Cassander saith ) hath pithily and wittily stated this question of Images ; that it is no prejudice to want t●em , nor priviledge to have them ; that such as utterly reject them , may be taxed with ●icklenesse , and they that worship them , branded with folly .

In this Age there arose great contention in the Church , touching the matter of Images ; the Greeke Emp●rou●s , Leo Isaurus , Constantine , Nic●phorus , Stauratius , Leo Armenus , Michael Balbus , Theophilus , and others their ●uc●essours , opposi●g them in the East ; and on the other side , Gregorie the second , and third , Paul the first , Stephen the fourth , Adrian the first , and other Popes of Rome as stiffly upholding them in the West .

In a Councel of 338 Bishops l l Concil. Constant 〈…〉 mag habitum est . 〈◊〉 754. Bin. Conc. to. 3. pag. 2●● . held at Constantinople Anno 754 , they were solemnly condemned ; for they banished all other Images , and determined , That there was one onely Image appointed by Christ , to wit , the blessed bread and wine in the Eucharist , which represent to us the body and bloud of Christ : there was decreed under Constantine , nicknamed C●pronymus ; m m Qui imagin●m ●●●u●●uerit parare aut ad●●are , aut in Eccl●si● , aut in p●ivat● domo con●i●●uere , si Episcopus fuerit depen●t●r decretum extat in 〈◊〉 . Conc. 2. ●pud Bin. Act 6. p●g. 377. That none should privately in houses , or publikely in Churches , procure , keepe , or worship any Image , u●on paine of deposition . Zonaras saith , n n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Zonar . h●st . to . 3 p. 88 Basil. 155● . That in the hearing of all the people , they openly forbad the worship of Images , calling all such as adored th●m , Idolaters : and speaking of the Emperour Leo Armenus , hee saith , o o 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id. Ibid. p 105. He was mightily bent against them , insomuch as he decreed utterly to abandon them . Thus did those Ezekiah's of Greece , being strongly opposed by the Papall fo●ces .

Now so it was , afterwards in another Co●n●el of 350 bishop p p 〈◊〉 . Ni●●n. 2. h●bit . est an. 787. B●n . in not . in i● . C●n●il . held at Nice in the yeare 787. Images were set on foote againe , and this Councel was cal●ed and swayed under that Doctresse Irene the Empresse , q q

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Annal. cap 188. pag 389.

C●udeli●er & Insanabilitèr oculos ej●s ev●llunt , ita ut hunc mor● subsequens con●istim ext●●gueret , consi●io 〈…〉 Paul . D●acon . hist. lib. 23. pag. 747.

By whose Councel and procurement , the Peeres whom she had corrupted , shut up her sonne Constantine the Emperour in the palace where he was borne , and there they put out his eyes so that he died of hearts griefe . Thus they put out the eyes of him that saw , and set up Images that have Eyes and see not : and all this was done ( saith the story ) that her sonne being deposed , she might 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Rule alone .

But this dec●ee of the Nicen Synod , repealed by that at Frankford , was not halfe so bad as that which followed , when Aquinas set up Schoole , and taught , r r C●ux Christi lat●i● adoranda est . Aquin Sum. Theolog. pa●t. 3 quest. 25. a●● 4. That the Crucifixe , an● Image of Christ must be adored with the same honour that hims●lfe is ; to wit , with Latria , or divine Honour : whereas those Nice Fathers haply stood but for veneration , s s Bishop Bilson of S●bjection 4 p●rt . pag. 387. or outward reverence of Images , in passing by them , or s●anding before them , as friends use to salute or embrace one another . Howsoever , the Nicen d●●r●e was r●j●cted as repu●nant to the doctrine of G●ds Church , by the P●inc●s and bish●ps of England fi●● , about the yeere 792. And by Charles th● Great afte●w●rd ; a●d by the b●sh●ps of Italie , France , and Germany , which by his appointment were gathered together in the Frankford Counce● in the yeare 794.

Rog●r Hovede● saith , t t ●harl●s the French King sent a Synod●ll i●to Britaine , directed unto him from Constantinople , in the which booke many things ( out alas ) inconvenient , an●●epugnant to right faith , were found , especially it was con●●●med a most by the unanimous consent of all the Eastern Doctors , ●o l●sse than three hundred or more , that Images ought to ●e worshipped , which thing the Church of God doth altogether d●test : agains● which Synodall b●oke , Albinus wrote an Epistle m●rveilouslie con●irmed by authoritie of divine Scripture , and ca●ried the same to the French King , together with the fore . s●●d booke , in the name of our Bishops and Princes .

H●n●marus Bishop of Rhemes living at the same time , s●ith , u u 〈…〉 Syno●us in Francia convoc●nte 〈…〉 traditionemque ma●o●um ip●● Grae●o 〈…〉 non in dicum voli●●●● , quo● 〈…〉 Missum . Hinc 〈…〉 . In the time of the Emperor Charles , by the command of the See Apostolike , there was a generall Councell , called by the Emperour ; wherein according to the pathway of Scripture , and tradition of ancestors , the Greekes false Synod was destroyed● and wholl● ab●ogat●d , touching the repealing whereof , the●e was a just Volumne sent from the Emperour to Rome , which my selfe have read in the Pallace , when I was a yo●g man , saith Hin●marus .

●he same also i● testified by x x 〈…〉 quam septi●am Graec● 〈…〉 . Ado V●en . in Ch●on ae●●t . 6. pag. 181. — . Regi 〈…〉 21. de Cul●● . Sanct. others , namely , Ado , Rh●g●o , and Cassander , a moderat Pontifician : and King Charles speaking of this Synod , sayth ; that y y Ad Apocryphas quasdam , & 〈…〉 . 〈◊〉 . M. lib. 3. cap. 30. be●●g destitute of Scripture proo●e , they betooke themselves to Apoc●●yphall and ridiculous toyes .

PA.

This Booke is z z Prot. Apol. tr. 2. sect. 7. pag. 364. forged , under the name of Carolus Magnus .

PRO.

Indeed , we were not at the making thereof , yet thus much we can witnesse ; that your Champion Eckius saith , a a Carolus M●quatuor libros scripsit contrà v●lentes to●lere im●gines . Eckij Enchi●●d . cap 16. Charles wrote foure books touching Images ; and Austine Steuchus , the Popes Library-keeper , b b Aug. Steuch●s de donat. Constantin● . pag 226. presseth some things out of those Caroline bookes , making ( as hee thinks ) for his masters advantage . Cassander saith , c c Ca●oli ips●s titulo quatuor l●b●i cons●ripti su●re , quorum Hincmarus Episcopus meminit , et ●o u● ex●mplum hodi●que in ●ibliethe●●● Vatic●n● , et nonnullis G●llic loci● extat . C●ss●nd . Consult . A●t. 21. de cultu Sanctor . That in his time there was a copy of those Caroline books in the Vaticane Librarie , and in divers places of France ; and that Hincmarus Bishop of Rhemes , mentions those foure Caroline bookes .

Besides , they were lately to be seene in the Palatines Library at Heidelberg , but are now conveyed to Rome : where , yet for all Charlemaignes greatn●sse , th●y h●●e sued out a Prohibition against him , d d Ind●x liber prohib auth●ritate Pij 4. primùm ●ditus , post●a ve●o a Sixto quinto auc●●s ; 〈…〉 H●n 〈◊〉 1611. p. 83 lit . ● . In●ertorum 〈…〉 And his book● are forbidden in the Romane Index , first published by Pius the fourths command , enlarged by Sixtus Quintus , and r●viewed , and published by Clement the eight . Howsoever , you see , and Baronius confes●eth , that the most learned an●●amous of these times speake against this Nicen decree .

PAP .

The Councel of Frankford and Paris , e e under Lewis the first , and other learned men mistooke the d●finition of th● Nicen Councel , and therein erred● yet no● i● a m●tter of doctrine , but a matter of fact , say Geneb●ard , and Bellarmine .

PRO.

There be of their owne side as learned as they whi●h mislike this excuse , to wit , f f 〈…〉 sit ergò tertia responsio , Concil. Fra●cos . de●inivisse potiùs verit 〈…〉 Synodo con●en●isse . Suarez . tom. 1. disp 54. sect. 3. pag. ●01 , 802. M●●unt . 1604. 〈…〉 Tho disp. 107. qua●st . 25. Art. 3. Ingolstad● 1610. Suarez , and Vasques ; so tha● it seemes , they are not agreed of their verdict , nor who shall speake for them .

PA.

Bellarmine saith , That Ab eodem Ad●iano 〈◊〉 qu●ntum a● alte 〈…〉 Be●l . de Concil. lib. 1 ca 7. § Qua●tum . — ●on 〈◊〉 Leg●ti R●ma●● Id. de Im●g . ●●p. 1● . § Si. the Pope confirmed the Frankford C●uncell in one part , and canc●lled it in another ; to wit , in that poynt , touching adoration of Images , whereunto the Popes Legates never consented .

PRO.

This b●wrayes the Popes partiall d●aling , to make the Counc●l onely to serve his owne turne . But what if it wa●ted ●is approbation ? the thi●d Canon of the Chalced●n Counc●l , that gave the See of Constantinople the precedence b●f●re other Patriarkes , as the n●xt after the Bishop of Rome , was opposed by Pope Leo's L●gat●s ; and yet the Canon was decreed and pass●d , and the Councell is held for Generall , howsoever the P●pes Legates h h Co●tradictio nostra his gesti● inhaereat . Concil. Chalced. tom . 2. Concil. general . per Bin. actione 16 p 137. contradicted it . For they were to bee ruled by the maior part of the Councels votes ; neither doe wee find that anciently the Pope had a negative or casting voice in Councels . And therefore the Chalcedon Councel , notwithstanding the Popes opposition professeth ; i i 〈◊〉 ●mnes dicimus , 〈◊〉 om●ib●s placent . Ibid. p●g . 137. Haec omnes dicimus , This is all our vote , k k 〈◊〉 tota Synodus app●obavit . Ibid. and tota Synodus , the whole Councel hath confirmed this Canon , for the honour of the See of Constantinople : l l 〈◊〉 Synodi ad ●eonem post 〈◊〉 Chal●ed . a●t. 16. pa. 1●●● . and accordingly the whole Councel wrote to Pope Leo.

PA.

Could the later Councel at Frankford , repeale the former at Nice ?

PRO.

Very well , for as Saint Austine saith , m m 〈…〉 August . de 〈…〉 Dona●ist . l 2 c p 3. to 7. Even full and plenarie Councels themselves , may be amended by the later . Neither doth he meane it in matter of fact , but in point of doctrine ; for Austine there speakes of Re●aptization ; and ●m●ndari , is as much as è mendis purgari , to be rectified , wherein it erred ; and not onely to be Explaned .

PA.

Would Charles who loved Pope Adrian so dearely , n n Num credibile est Carolum in ipsum Adrianum tam acritèr scrip●isse● cùm ●um tantoperè coluerit ? Bel. de Imag. c. 14. §. num. write against him so sharply ? or the See of Rome ( which by the hands of Leo the third crowned Charles Emperour of the West ) endure that Charles should condemne Images ?

PRO.

Charles might love the See of Rome , and yet expresse his judgement in the point of Images ; neither doe we doubt , but that Charles and Pipin would have condemned the Popes proceedings therein more expressely , but they could not meddle with the poynt of state , without quarrelling the Pope in a matter of the Church : so that as Saint Austine saith of the old Romans , o o C●eteras cupiditates hujus unius ingenti ●upiditate presserunt . August . de Civit. Dei . lib. 5. c●p. 1● . That they bare downe many desires , for the excessive desire they had of one thing , to wit , Soveraignty and Dominion ; so the bishops of Rome , desirous to keepe their new purchases of Lumbardie , and Ravenna , which Charles and Pipin had procured them , thought it not fit to contend with their new and potent favorites . For so it was , when the Emperour Leo the third , desirous to abolish Image worship , ( which then was creeping in ) had caused them to be defaced , and thereupon did punish some who withstood it ; p p Leonem 3. Imperat. Constantinopolit . imperio simul & communione sidelium pr●v●t . Platina in Greg. 3. Gregorie the second excommuuicated him , q q Ne ●i aut tributum d●rent , aut ali●●atione obedi●ent . Sigon . de regno Italiae . lib. 3. Forbidding the Italians to pay him tribute , or to obey him ; upon this sentence and exhibition of the Pope , a great part of Italie r r G●egorius● Romam cum tot● Italià ab illius Leonis imperie recedere faciens . Paul . D●acon . hist. lib. 21. p. 665. rebelled against their Emperour resiant at Constantinople , and part of the countrey that rebelled was Conquered by the King of Lumbardie ; and Rome , and the Romane Dukedome fell unto the Pope ; now was the Emperour driven out of Italie , and every one ca●cht what he could ; the Lumbards were the strong●st partie , and with them the Pope falls at oddes about the dividing of the spoyle ; and finding them too hard for him ; as before he had used the strength of the Lumbards , to suppresse the Emperour ; so now he cals in Pipin , Marshall of the Palace , or Constable of France , and ●●a●les his son surnamed the Great , and by their power he suppressed the Lumbards : this service did Pipin and his sonne to the See of Rome ; in requitall whereof Chilp●ricke being a weake Prince was deposed ; Pipin , and the Barons and the people of France , are absolved from their Oath of Allegeance , and by Pope Zacharies favour , Pipin , sonne to Carolus Martellus , is crowned King of the F●a●ks , and Charles the Great , sonne to Pipin , is crowned Emperour of the West , by Pope Leo the third , who s●cceeded Adrian . Then came the Pope , and Charlemaigne to the partage of the Empire , leaving a poore pit●ance for the Emperour of Greece . And this was the issue of the fierce contentions about Images , The Popes pulling downe Emperours , and setting up Images : and indeed these babies and puppits served the Popes to stalke with●ll , but other fowle was shot at , to wit , Iurisdiction , and a temporall Monarchie : and indeed about this time the Pope grew great , so that it was Gods gracious dealing with his Church , that he found such opposition as he did ; the Easterne Emperour not daring , and the Westerne in regard of late courtesies received from the Pope , being ( haply ) not willing openly to affront him . And thus much of Images , come we now to speake a word or two of Prayer to Saints .

Concerning Prayer , Bede in his Commentarie on the Proverbes ( rightly s s 〈◊〉 ●ucque Commen●●●i ● in pro●●b t●buuntur Bede , ●o● Hiero●●●● .. Bell. de scrip . ecles . sect. 4. ascribed to Bede , and not to Saint Hierome ) saith ; t t Nullu● invocare , ●d est , in ● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Beda in cap. ● P●●verb to 4. We ought to invocate , that is , by prayer to call into us , none but God .

Antonius in his Melissa , or mellifluous Sermon , saith , that , u u Wee are taught to worship and adore that nature onely which is uncreated : but the Spanish Inquisitors have clipt off a piece of his tongue , x x Index . Expa●g 〈◊〉 Q●●●g . M●d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1584 Commanding the word , Onely , to be blotted out of his writings ; now the word , Onely , is the onely principall word that shewes us the Authors drift , and the word which Gregorie Nyssen ( from whom he borrwed this speech ) y y 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 N●s●●● cont. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 4 tom . ● edit. 〈…〉 used in the Originall .

Of Faith and Merits .

Bede held that we are justified by the merits of Christ imputed to us : z z Eju●mors , nostra vita ; ejus damnatio , nostra justificatio . Beda in Psal. 87. tom. 8. Christs condemnation is our Iustification , his death is our life . Hee disclaimed Iustification by inherent Righteousnesse ; for speaking of a regenerate man , he saith , a a Per justitiam factorum nullus salvabitur , sed per solam justitiam fidei . Id. in Psal. 77. That no man shall bee saved by the righteousnesse of workes , but onely by the righteousnesse of Faith : and therefore b b Iustruit videlicet ut nemo vel libertatem arbitrij , vel merita sua sufficere sibi ad beatitudinem credat ; sed solâ gratià De● se salvari posse intelligat . Id in Psal. 31. No man should beleeve , that either his freedome of will , or his merits are sufficient to bring him unto blisse ; but understand that he can be saved by the grace of God onely . And elsewhere he saith , c c In suturo benè remuneretur , & hoc non ex merito , sed ex grati● solâ . Id. in Psal. 23. That in the life to come we shall be well rewarded , and that not by merits , but by grace onely ; and he hath a sweet prayer , that d d Vt miserearis secund●m mesericordi●m ●uam , id est , te condignam , non secundùm iro●● , me condignam . Id. in Psal. 24. the Lord would take compassion of him , and that after the worth and condignitie of his mercies , and not after the condignitie of wrath which himselfe had deserved .

His Scholler Alcuinus maintained the same truth , as appeares by these passages following .

I could ( saith e e Sordidare me potui , sed emundare nequeo , ●isi tu Domine Iesu sancti sanguinis tui aspersione mundum me facias . Alcuin . in Psal. 50. Alcuinus ) defile my selfe with sinne , but I cannot clense my selfe ; it is my Saviours bloud that must purge me : and againe , f f Ad me unum cùm respicio , nihil al●ud in me nisi peccatum invenio ; tota liberatio mea , tua est justitia . Dei miseratione in nomine salvatoris , non nostris meritis vivisicati sum●● . Id. Ibid. Whiles I looke on my selfe , I find nothing in mee but sinne ; thy righteousnesse must deliver mee ; it is thy mercy , not my merits that saves mee . And elsewhere , he saith very sweetly , g g Ille solus liberare potest de peccato , qui venit sine peccato , & factus est sacrificium pro peccato . Id. lib. 4 in Ioan. cap. 8. He onely can free me from sinne , who came without sinne , and was made a sacrifice for sinne . And thus by Gods prouidence , was the weightie point of Iustification preserved found in these latter and declining times .

THE NINTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 800. to 900.
PAPIST .

WHat say you of this ninth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

The seeds of Knowledge which our worthy Co●ntrey-men Bede and Al●win planted in Gods Field , shewed themselues in their Schollers , such as were a a Claudius , discipulus quondam ( ut serunt ) Bedae in Angl●● , et Collega Alcuini , natione Scotus , claruit an . 800. T●ithem de Script . eccles. Claudius Scotus , Scholler to Saint Bede : Rabbanus Maurus Abbot of Fulden , one who ( as b b Cui Rabano , nec Italia similem , nec Germania peperit . Trith . verbo Raban . Trithemius saith , for his learning had not his match in Italy , or Germanie . Haymo bishop of Halberstat , and our Countrie-man , Ioannes Scotus Erigena , all three Schollers to c c Albini Anglici quondam Audito● R●●anus , claruit an . 855 Trit●em . H●ymo Episc. Halbe●stat . Alcuini Auditor , claruit ann. 850. Bell. de Scrip. eccles. Ioan. Scotus discipulus olim Bedae . Possevin . in Apparat . Sacro . to . 1. p. 868. Alcuinus .

Now also lived Christianus Druthmarus the Monke , and the Abbot Walafridus Strabo , who collected the ordinary Glosse on the Bible ; Agobardus bishop of Li●ns , Claudius bishop of Thurin in Piemont ; Bertram a P●iest and Monke of Corbey Abbey , wher●of Pascha●ius was sometimes Abbot , and about the yeare Eight hu●dred and ●inetie according to Bellarmine lived the Monke Ambrosius Ausbertus .

About the yeare 880● lived d d Remigius Antisiodorensis claruit ann. 880. Trith●m . Remigius borne at Aux●rre in Fra●ce , and sometimes called Rhemensis ( haply ) because he taught at Rhemes : there was another Remigius Archbishop of Rhemes , who liued in the sixth Age , and converted King Clovis of France to the Christian Faith ; but this Saint Remigius ( for ought wee know ) wrot nothing .

Claudius Scotus already mentioned , was one of the Irish Nation by birth , a famous Divine , and accounted one of the c c C●audius Cl●mens ●ce●us , 〈◊〉 Abbatis in funda●l● Academià Parisiensi C●ll●ga Possevir . in Appara● 〈…〉 . Founders of the Vniversitie of Paris : this Claudius Clemens Presbiter , f f Iac Vsserius Armach . Archi●p . vete● . Epist. Hibernicorum ●●ll●g in praefat. & epist. 19. was of latter standing , and inferiour in place to that other Claudius Scotus bishop of Auxer●e , a great opposite to Boniface Archbishop of Me●ts . This latter Claudius wrote on the Gospels and Epistles , and is often alleaged by the Reverend , and learned Lord Primate , Doctor Vsher.

Of the Scriptures sufficiencie , and Canon .

Claudius Scotus saith , g g Proptertà errant quià s●ripturas nesciunt , et quià scriptura● ignorant , consequenter nesciunt virtutem De● , hoc est , Christum . Claud. in Math. li. 3. cited by D. Vsher , of the ancient Irish Relig. pag. 2. That men therefore erre , because they know not the Scriptures ; and because they are ignorant thereof , they consequently know not Christ , who is the power and wisdome of God . Hee also bringeth in that knowne Canon of Saint Herome , h h Hoc quia de Scripturis non habet auctoritatem , ●á●em facilitate contemni●u● , qu● probatur . Id. ibid. This , because it hath not authoritie from the Scriptures , is with the same facilitie contemned , wherewith it is avowed .

Nicephorus Patriarke of Constantinople , gives us to understand , i i 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nic●ph . Patr. C. P. C●non . Script . in operibus 〈◊〉 cited by S●● Humf. 〈◊〉 . Via devia sect. 5. That the Bookes of the old Testament were twenty and two . And treating of the Apocriphall Bookes , he mentioneth in particular , the Bookes of Maccabees , Wisdome , Ester , Iudith , Susanna , Tobie .

Of Communion under both kindes ; and number of Sacraments .

Paschasius upon our Saviours words , Drinke yee all of this , saith , k k Bibite ex hoc omnes tàm minist●i qu●m reliqu● cred●ntes Pasch. de Corp. & Sang. Dom. cap. 1● . pag. 18● . tom 4. Bibl. Patr. Par. 1575. Drinke yee all of this , as well Ministers , as the rest of the Faithfull . Rabanus saith , l l M●luit D●m●nus Co●poris & Sanguinis sui Sacramenta fideiium ore percipi . Raban . lib. 1. de Insti●ut . Cleric . cap. 31. pag. 49. ●d●t . Colon. 1532. That the Lord would have the Sacrament of his Body and blo●d to be received by the mouth of the Faithfull .

Haymo saith , m m Calix appellatur commu●i●atio , quasi par●●●ipatio quia omnes commu●icant ex illo , partemque sumunt ●x sanguine D●mini , quem contin●t in se. H●mo in 1 Cor. cap. 10 pag. 124. Edit. 1534. The Cup is called the Communion , because all communicate of it , and doe take part of the bloud of the Lord which it containeth in it . Hee saith , all did communicate ; so that the People as well as the Priests were admitted to the Cup. And n n Rhemig in 1. cor. ●ap. 10. v. 16. in part 3. to . 5●1● pag●8● ●8● Rhemigius hath the very same words with Haymo ; as indeed his Commentaries on Saint Pauls Epistles are in a manner all taken out of Haymo , as Doctor Rivet hath o o Andr. Rivet . 〈◊〉 . sacri lib 4. cap. 27. observed . It is the report of our Ancestors ( saith p p Relatio majorum est● ità primi● temporibus missus ●ier● solitas , si●ut ipse Dominus noste● praecepit , commemoratione passion●● ejus ad●ibità , ●os corp●●● D●mini●o communicasse 〈◊〉 sanguini quos ratio permitt●bat . Valafrid . Strabo de reb. ●c●les . c. 22. in Bibl. p●tr . Par. 158● Walafridus Strabo ) that in the Primitive times , they were wont according to Christs Institution , to Communicate and partake of the Body and Bloud of our Lord , even as many as were prepared and thought fit . q q Regino in Chron. ad an. 8●9 . Communionem co●poris ●t sanguinis Domin● de manu Pontif●●●● sumpsit . Lib. 2. pag. ●0 . Fr. 1583. Regino describeth the manner of Pope Adrians delivering the Communion to King Lotharius and his followers in both kindes ; The King ( saith hee ) takes the Body and Bloud of our Lord at the hands of the Pope , and so did the Kings Fallowers .

Paschasius saith , r r Sunt aut●m Sacramenta Christi in Ecclesi● , Baptismus & Chrisma . ●orpus quoque Domini et sangu●● Pas●h●l . de Corp. & sang . Dom. cap. 3. in to . 4. col. 162. Bib. Pat. Par. 1●75 . These bee the Sacrament● of Christ in the Church , Baptisme and Chrysme , and the Body and Bloud of Christ : and s s Rab. de sacr. Euch. Col. 1551. ex Bib● Cuthb . Tunstalli Ep Dunelm . Rabanus hath the selfe same words : Now with Baptisme they joyne Chrysme , because they used to annoint such as were baptized ; for otherwise t t Ecce duo ista sacramenta quid efficiunt . Id. ibid. cap. 23. Rabanus speakes precisely of two , saying ; What doe these two Sacraments effect ? and then hee answers ; That by the one we are borne anew in Christ , and by the other Christ abides in us .

Of the Eucharist .

Rabanus saith , u u Quià panis corporis ●or confirmat , ideò ille congru●nter co●pus Christi nun●upatur ; et quia vi●um sanguinem operatur in carne , ideò refertur ad sanguinem Raban . de Instit. Cleric . li. 1. ca. 31. Bread because it strengthneth the body , is therefore called the Body : and Wine because it maketh bloud , is therefore referred to Christs bloud .

Haymo x x Haimo in pass. secu●d . Marc. Fer. 3 palm . saith the same with Rabanus ; Rabanus farther saith , y y Aliud est Sa●ramentum , aliud vi● sacramenti ; sacramentum in alimentum 〈◊〉 gitur , virtute socr●menti aeternae vitae dignitas adipiscitur . Raban . de Instit. Cleric . lib. 1. ca 3. That the Sacrament in one thing , and the power thereof another ; the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of the body ; by the vertue of the Sacrament we attaine ●ternall life : Hee saith , the Sacrament ( which is the Bread ) is turned into our bodily nourishment ; n●w sp●cies , shewes , and accidents can not nourish : but these latter words of Rabanus Rabani libro , hanc 〈◊〉 quasi spuriam 〈◊〉 . P●aetat . ad Ma●h . Westmon . are raz●d ●ut ; whereas the Monke of Malmesbury witnesses that Rabanus wrote accordingly as is alleaged , and this razure is observed by the publisher of Mathew of Westminsters Historie . Haymo calls the Eucharist , A a a Sa●ramentum muner●s aet●rai quod n●bis Domi●●● nass●rus i● mem●riam su● d●misit tenendum . Haimo in 1 Cor. cap. 1. Memoriall of that Gift or Legacie , which Christ dimised unto us at his Death .

Rabanus saith , b b Q●od ●●inde Ap●sto●i imitati 〈◊〉 , & 〈…〉 & nunc per totum terrarum ●●bem generali●●● tota cus●odit ●cclesia . R●b●n de Inst●t . Cl●●●● . lib. 1. c●p. 32. that Christ at first instituted the Sacrament of his Body and Bloud , with blessing and thanksgiving ; and delivered it to his Apostles , and they to their Successors , to doe accordingly ; and that now the whole Church throughout the world observes this manner .

Christianus Druthmarus reporting our Saviours Act at his last Supper , sayth , c c Christ changed the bread into his body , and the wine into his bloud Spiritually : he speaks not of any change of substances . Walafridus Strabo saith , d d That Ch●ist delivered to his Disciples the Sacraments of his body and bloud , in panis & vini substantiâ , in the substance ●f bread and Wine .

When Carolus Calvus the Emperour , desired to compose some diffe●ences about the Sacrament then on ●oot ; he r●quired Bertram , a learned man of that Age , t● deliver h●s j●dgement in that poynt , 〈…〉 Colon. Ann● 1551 p●g 18● . Whether the body and bloud of Christ which in the Church is received by the mouth o● t●● faithful , be celebrated in a mystery , or in the truth ; an● whether it be the same body which was borne of Mary ? Whereunto h● returnes this answer ; f f Panis ille 〈◊〉 figu●atè Christi corpus & sang●●● 〈◊〉 . Ibid. p●g. 183. That the bread and the wine , a●e t●● body and bloud of Christ figuratively ; that g g Et h●c ●orpus pign●s est & spec●es , illud verò ipsa veritas . Ibid. 〈…〉 . This body is t●e pledge , and the ●igure , the other the very naturall bodie ; h h Nam secund●m ●●●turarum substantiam quod ●uerunt ante conse●ra●ionem , ho● & postea ●ensis●unt . lb. pag 205 That for the substance of the Creatures , that which they were before consecration , the same are they also afterward . i i ●omini●um corpus 〈◊〉 sanguis domini●us app●ll●●●tur qu●niā●jus sum●●t ●●pellationem ●uj●s 〈◊〉 sa●ramentum . Ibid. p. ●●● That they are called the Lords body and bloud , because they take the name of that thing of which th●y are , a Sacrament ; k k Vid●mus ●●aque 〈◊〉 diff●renti●●epara●t in 〈◊〉 sanguini● & 〈◊〉 Christi , quod ru●c a 〈◊〉 ●●mitur in 〈…〉 illud quod natū●st ●e Ma●●a V●●gin● . Ibid p. 222. That there is a great difference betwixt the mystery of the bloud and body of Christ , which is taken now by the faithfull in the Church , and that which was borne of the Virgin Mary . All which he proves at large by Scriptures and Fathers .

Your wisedome most excellent Prince , may perceive ( saith he l l A●imad● ertat ( ●●●●●sime princeps ) sapi●ntia vestra , quòd positis S. Scripturarum tell●morijs , et . S. Patrūd●c●is evident●ssim● mo●s●ratum est quò● 〈◊〉 qui co●pus Christi , ●t 〈◊〉 q●i sarguis Ch●ist● appellitur , ●igura sit 〈…〉 Ibid p●g 228. ) that I have proved by the testimonies of holy Scriptures and Fathers , that the bread which is called Christs body , and the Cup that is called his bloud , is a figure , because it is a mysterie .

PA.

I except against Bertram , his booke is forbid to be read , but by such as are m m licenced , or purpose to con●ute him .

PRO.

Bertram n n wrote of the body and bloud of Chr●st , as Trithemius saith ; and by your Belgicke or L●w Countrey Index , Bertram is stiled o o Catholicke . Now this Index was published by the King of Spaines commandment , & the Duke of Alva , and first printed at Antwerp , in the yeare 1571 , and often since reprinted . Now so it is , howsoever he be accounted a Catholicke Priest , and much commended by Trithemius , yet are this Catholicks writings forbid to be read , as appeares by severall Indices ; the one set forth by the p p Deputies of the Trent Councel ; and another printed at Parts , q q under Clement the eight .

Now these Inquisitors dealt too roughly , and therefore the divines of Doway , perceiving that the ●orbidding of the booke , kept not men from reading it , but rather o●casioned them to seeke after it ; thought i● better policie , that Bertram should be suffered to goe abroad , but with his keeper , to wit , some popish glosse to wait on him .

Seeing therefore ( r r Quum igitur in Catholic●● veteribus al●ot plu●rimo●●●●amus error●s & ex●enuemus , ex●u●●mu● excog●tato commento pers●●● n●g●●●● 〈◊〉 com●●d●● ijs 〈…〉 cum oppo●untu● 〈◊〉 disp●●ationibus ●ut in ●onflictionibus cum ●●versarijs ; 〈◊〉 videmus cur non ea●dem equitatem & diligentem recognitionem me●●atur B●rtramus , ne ●●ret●ci ●gganniant●●os an●iquitatem pro ipsis ●acientem ●xurere 〈◊〉 prohibe●e . Index expurgator . Belgie . pa. 12. lit . B. ut liber ●ertrami tolera●i emendatus queat . & ●udicium Vniversitatis Du●c●nsis Ibidem . say they ) we beare with many errours in other old Catholicke writers , and extenuate them , excuse them , by inventing some device , oftentimes deny them , and ●aine some commodious sense for them when they are objected in disputation with our adversaries : we doe not see why Bertram may not deserve the same equitie , and diligent revisall ; les● the Her●ticks cry out , that we burne and forbid such antiquity as maketh for them ; and accordingly they have dealt wi●h Bertram ; for by their Recognition , s s Legendum invisibilitèr pro visibilitèr , ●t [ s●cundùm creaturarum substantiam ] explicandum est secundum externa● species sacramenti Ind. expu●g . B●lg●● . pag. ●7 . We must reade Invisibiliter , in stead of Visibiliter ; and these words , [ The Substance of the Creatures ] must be expounded to signifie outward shewes , or Accidents .

But this will not serve the turne ; for Bertram speaking of the consec●ated b●ead and wine , saith , that for the substance of the creatures , they remaine the same after consecration , that they were before . Now if they doe so , then is not the substance of b●ead and wine changed into the substance of the flesh and bloud of Christ , as the Trent Councel would have it . t t Concil. Tr●d . Sess. 2. Can. 13. Nor will it serve to say , that by the substance of the Creatures is meant the outward accidents , as the whitenesse of the bread , the colour of the wine , or the like : for Bertram speakes properly , that the consecrated bread and wine , remaine the same in substance . And it were an improper speech to attribute the word Substance , to Accidents , as to say the substance of the colour , or rednesse of the wine , or the like .

PA.

Master Brerely suspects u u Protest . Apol. Tract . ● . chap. 2. sect. 7. that this booke was lately set forth by O●colampadius under Bertrams name .

PRO.

This suspicion is cleered by the antient Manuscript copies of Bertram extant , before Occolampadius was borne ; one whereof that great Scholler , Causabon , saw in the Librarie of Master Iames Gilot , a Burgesse of Paris , as he x x D. Vss●rius de Christian . Eccles. succ●ssione . cap. 2. sect. 18. witnessed to the Reverend and learned Primate , Doctor Vsher.

And yet besides these M●nuscripts , Bertram taught the same doctrine in other books also , to wit , De Nativitate Christi , and de Animâ , which are to be seene in the Libraries of the Cathedrall Church of Sarisburie , and Bennet Colledge in Cambridge , as the same y y D. Vss●r . in Gotteschal●● , seu p●aedest . Cont●overs . cap. 11. Bishop Vsher observes .

PA.

Was Bertram a learned man , and of a good li●e ?

PRO.

Trithemius the Abbot gives him a large z z Be●tramus Pr●sbiter , q●● in ●ivin●s S●riptu●●● va●dè peritus , non mi●ù● vit● , qu●m doct●i●i i●sign●s s●●ipsit co●m●ndabile opus de p●aedestinatione , et librum un●m de Corp. & sang Dom. Trithem . ve●b . Be●●ram . commendation , For his excellent learning in Scripture , his godly life , his worthy Bookes , ( and by name , this of the Body and Bloud of Christ )

Clodius de Sanctes a a Refertur in Catalog● Scriptor Ec●lesiast . ut v●r ●on minùs vit● . quàm doctrinà insign●● , et Ca●●oli●●● . Cl●d . de Sa●ctes . de ●●b . Eu●h●●ist . controvers. rep●tit 2. p. 55. Par. 1575. ●aith , Hee is put in the Catologue of Ecclesiasticall Writers , for one Catholike in life and doctrine ; and your Brerely b b Brer●●y P●o● . Apol. ●● . 2 ● 2 sect. 7. saith , That ancient Catholike Writers doubt not to honour Bertram for a holy Martyr of their Church .

Now are wee come to our famous countrey-man Scotus , much what of Bertrams standing , and both of them in favour with Charles ; unto whom as Bertram Dedicated his Treatise of the Sacrament ; so also Ioannes Scotus wrot of the same argument , and to the same effect that Bertram had done . Bellarmine saith , c c Is primus in Ecclesi● la●in● de 〈◊〉 ●u●i è s●ri●ere capit Bellar. de S●cram Eu. har. lib. 1. cap 1. §. Secundus . That Scotus was the first who in the Latine Church wrot doubt●fully of the reall presence . It is indeed their fault that we have not his Booke , yet may wee presume that he wrot positively ; neither doe we any where find , that his booke of the Sacrament was condemned before the dayes of Lanfrancke , d d Tantùm Lan●ia●●● ait , ●●●tum in 〈…〉 ●●●sell●nsi ●●m 〈◊〉 damna●um ●et 〈◊〉 ●xillius s●riptis opinionis 〈◊〉 ●eminari● 〈…〉 Cl●d . de Sa●nctes ib●d 〈◊〉 . 2. p. 54. who was the first that leavened the Church of England with this corrupt doctrine of the carnall presence ; so that all this while , to wit , from the yeare 876 , to 1050 , he passed for a good Catholike .

PA.

Was Scotus a man of that note ?

PRO.

He was ( as Possevine saith e e I●m . Scotus . dis●ipulus olim ●ede , et collega Alcuini unus ex ●undatoribus gymnasij Parisiensis , qui po●●e● ab Al●redo Rege ex G●llij● , ●●i Carolus Calvus eum ●ove●at , revocatus in Angliam , in s●holà Ox ●●iensi praelegit . ● Discipuli apud Monas●e●ium M●l●●sburiense graphijs trans ●ixerunt , & Martyr Christi ●●●i●atus est . Possevin . Apparat. to . 1. pa. 868. & Petrus ●rinitus lib. 24. de honestà Discipl . c. 11. Scholler to Bede , Fellow-pupill with Alcuinus , and accounted one of the founders of the Vniversitie of Paris , and in the end dyed like a Martyr . For after that he came into England , and was publike Reader in Oxford , by the favour of King Alfred , he retired himselfe into Malmsbury Abbey , and was there by his owne Schollers stabbed to death with Pen-knives : and this was done ( saith Bale , f f Inter legendum à quibusdam discipulis m●levolis interin●●batur A. C. 88● . ●ortass● non sine monachorum impulsu . Balaeus Cent. 2. cap. 24. and others ) g g Ia● . Philip. Bergoni . Su●●lement . C●ron . Venet an 1503. Hospinian . hist. 〈◊〉 . part . 1 l. 4. p 316. & 317 — ●●br . ●ovel . de Antichr . in Prae●a● . Fortassis non sine Monachorum impuls● , haply not without the Monks procurement ; being murdered by his Schollers , whiles he opposed the carnall presence which then some private persons began to set on foot .

By his birth he was one h h Doct●● notum est● candem esse veterem S●●t●am et Hiberniam . D. V●ser . in Gottes●halco c●p. 9. of the Scottish or Irish nation , and is sometime called Erigena , sometime Scotigena . He was sirnamed Scotus the Wise , and for his extraordinary learning , in great account with our King Alfred , and familiarly entertained by Charles the Great , to whom he wrote divers i i Veter . Epist. Hibernicor . S●ll ge. D. 〈◊〉 . Vsserias ●pist . 22. letters .

In a word , there is an old homely m m Milms●●●●n●● de gest . R●g . Anglor . lib. 2. c. 4. pag. 45. Epitaph , which speakes what this Scotus was ; Clauditur hoc tumulo Sanctus Sophista Ioannes , Qui ditatus erat jàm vivens dogmate miro , Martyrio tandem Christi conscendere regnum Quo● meruit , sancti regnant per saecula cuncti . Vnder this stone Lyes Sophister Iohn , Who living had store Of singular Lore . At length he did merit , Heaven to inherit ; A Martyr blest . Where all Saints rest .

Or thus : Here lyes interr'd Scotus the Sage , A Saint , and Martyr of this Age.

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Ionas Bishop of Orleance , who wrote against Claudius bishop of Turin in the defence of Images , holds that n n Quae picturae xon ad adorandum , sed solummod● ( teste B. Greg. ) ad 〈◊〉 nes●i●ntium mentes in 〈◊〉 sunt antiquit●●●ieri permissae . Ionas Aureli●n . de cultu Imag. lib. 1 in Biblioth. Patr. tom. 4. pa● . 692. edit Par. The Images of Saint● , and Stories of divine things may b●e painted in the Church , not to be worshipped , but to be an o●nament , and to bring into the minds of simple people , things done and past . But to adore the Creature , or to give it any part of divine honour , we count it ( saith he o o Creaturum verò ado●rari , e●que aliquid divinae servitutis impe●di , nesas ●u●imus ; hujusque sceleris patratorem detestandum 〈◊〉 anathem●tiz●ndum● liber● v●ce pro●l●mamus . Id. ibid. p●g 699 ) a vile wickednesse , detesting the do●r thereof , as worthy to be accursed : It is fl●t impiete ( p p Adorare alium praeter Pat●em , et Filium , et S. ● . impi●tatis est ●rimen . Ib●d. pag. 701. saith the same Ionas out of Origen ) to adore any save the Father , Sonne , and Holy Ghost . Agobardus , bishop of Lyons saith , q q Sed nullas antiquorum Catholicorum unquam c●s colendas vel adorand●s sertè existimavit . Agoba●d● opera . Par. 1605 pa. 253. That the Ancients , they had the pictures of the Saints , but it was for historie sake , and not for adoration ; and that none of th● ancient Catholicks haply thought that Images are to be worshipped , or adored .

And r r Rec●è nimirum ob ejusmodi evacuandam superstitionem ab orthodoxis patribus definitum est ; pictura● in ecclesi●●i●ri non deb●re ; ne quod colitur et adoratur , in parietibus d● pingatur . Id. ibid. pa. 254 the Orthodoxe Fathers for avoiding of superstition , did carefully provide that no pictures should bee set up in Churches , lest that which is worshipped should be painted on the walls .

Rhemigius saith , s s Quia non sunt ado●anda simulachra , nec etiam Angelus adorandus ●st . Rhemig . in Psal. 96. That neither Images nor Angels are to be adored ; and t t Quid non sint Deo debitis ●ultibus et honoribus colend● , quae ab illu vel nobis facta sunt . Vala●rid . Strabo de ●eb . ecclesiast. cap 8. Walasfridus Strabo , would not have divine honour given to ought that is made by us , or any other Creature .

Now what say the Papists to these Testimonies ? Baronius yeelds us Walafridus Strabo , Ionas bishop of Or●leance , Hincmarus , Archbishop of Rhemes , and saith u That they fo●sooke the received opinion of the Church ; and yet they were ever held sound Catholicks .

Bellarmine saith , x x 〈…〉 est , 〈…〉 Agobardus , et r●liqui 〈…〉 . Bell. 〈…〉 Eccl●s . s●●t . 9. verbo Ionas . That Ionas was overtaken with Agobard his errour , and other bishops of France in that Age , and therefore puts in a Caveat , that Ionas must bee read warily . So that by their owne confession the learnedst , and famousest men of this Age stand for us in this point ; & this makes them seeke to suppresse such testimonies as are given of them . Papirius Massonus set forth this booke of Agobards , and delivers the argument therof to be this : y y Grae●o●um errores de Im●ginibus et picturis mani●e●tissimè d●tege●s ●egat 〈◊〉 ad●rari d●b●re ; quam sente●tiam om●es Cat●●li●i p●obamus G●egorijque M testimonium d●●llis se qui mur. Pap●● . M●sson . in 〈◊〉 ●p p. 7. Detecting most manifestly the errours of the Greci●ns touching images & pictures : he ( to wit , bishop Agobard ) denies t●at they ought to be worshipped : which opinion all we Catholicks do allow and follow the testimony of Gregory the great concerning them . Now this passage the Spanish Inquisitors , in their expurgatorie Index , Expungantur omnia 〈◊〉 sub hoc 〈◊〉 ( de Imaginibu● ) continentur . ●nd . l●br expu●●at . de 〈◊〉 Sena●u● general . I●q●isit Hi●p 〈◊〉 Madr●an● 1612. Commanded t● bee blotted out , and this is accordingly a a M Bibliot● . vet. Patr. to . 9. pa●t. 1. edit. Colon. an. 1618. pa 551. performed by the Divines of Collen , in their late corrupt Edition of the great Bibliothek of the ancien● Fathers .

To close up this poynt ; Charles the Great was seconded by his Sonne Lewis the Godly ; for by his appointment , the Doctors of France b b Syn●d Parisiens . de Imaginib sub Ludovi●o ●io . assembled at Paris , in the yeare 842 , and there condemned the adoration of Images .

It is not strange ( saith c c N●n autem mi●un si 〈…〉 Ambrose Ansber●us ) that our prayers and teares are not offered up unto God by us , but by our High Priest , since that Saint Paul exhorts us , to offer up the Sacrifi●e of Praise unto God . Haymo upon those words of Isay , 〈◊〉 enim Pater noster , Thou O Lord art our Father . [ Isay. 6● . ver. 16. ] ●aith , d d Ha●m● in cap. 63. 〈◊〉 . Et rectè solum invocamus ac d●p ecamur te , And we doe right , onely to invocate thee , and to make our supplication to thee .

Of Faith and Merit .

Claudius Scotus saith , 〈…〉 Vsh●r , of the 〈…〉 R●ligion . that Faith alone saveth us , because by the works of the Law no man shall be justified ; yet he addeth withall this caution , f f No● quod legis opera conte●●enda sunt , et absque eis simplex fides appetenda , sed ipsa opera ●ide Christi adornentur . Id. in Gal. 3. Not as if the works of the Law should be contemned , and without them a simple faith , ( so he calleth that solitary faith , which is a simple faith indeed ) should bee desired ; but that the works themselves should be adorned with the Faith of Christ . Rhemigius saith , h h Re verá isti soli bea●●● qui per gratiam justificantur , non ex meritis . ●●mig in Psal. 32. That in truth , those onely are happy , who are freely justified of grace , and not of merit . Haymo saith , i i [ Et salvamur ] 〈◊〉 gratiâ non nosiris me●●tis , quae quidem merita sunt nu●la . Haimo in Esai . ca. 63. Wee are saved by Gods grace , and not our owne merits ; for we have no merits at all .

Ambros. Ansbertus expounding that place , Revel. 19. 7 makes this inference . k k In eo autem damus illi gloriam , quo nullis praecedentibus ●onorum actuu● meritis , sed solà nos ●ju● misericordià , ad t●ntam dignitatem pervenisse sateamur . Ambr. A●sbert . in Apocalyp . lib. 8. cap. 19. Et pr●ventente gra●t● salvamur , et subsequente justificamur . Id ib. l. 10. c. 22. In this doe wee give glory to him , when we doe confesse , that by no precedent merits of our good deeds , but by his mercie onely , wee have attained unto so great a dignitie . And l l Ne dicerent , Pat●es nostri suo merito pla●uerunt , ideò tant● sunt à Domino consecuti ; intu●it non meriti● datum , sed qui● ita sit Deo placitum , cuj●s est gratuitum omne quod praestat . Raban . in Ie●em . lib. 18. cap 2. Rabanus in his commentaries upon the Lamentations of Ieremie ; least they should say , our Fathers were accepted for their Merit , and therefore they obtained such great things at the hands of the Lord ; he adjoyneth , that it was not given to their Merits , but because it so pleased God , whose free gift is whatsoever he bestoweth .

I will close up this Age onely with producing an Evidence drawne about the yeare 860 , namely , a learned Epistle which Huldericke Bishop of Ausburg , in Germanie , wrote to Pope Nicolas in defence of Priests Marriage . From this holy discretion ( m m Non parum quippe ●b h●c sa●cta discre●ione deviasti cum Cle●i●os quos ad continentiam conjugij 〈◊〉 d●b●bas , ad hanc ●mperi●s● quadam violenti à ●ogi voleba● . Nunquid enim merit● c●muni omnium sapientun● judi●to hae● est violenlentia , cùm contrà Evang●licam institutionem , ac S. ●p dictatim●m , ad privata aliquis dec●eta cogitur ●x●quenda ? Domirus quidem in v●te●i l●ge Sacerdoti conjugium , constituit , quod illi post modùm interdixisse non legit●r . S. Vd alric . de celibatu 〈◊〉 inter Monum . S. Patr. Orthodoxographa p. 481. edit. à Ioan. Iac. Grynaeo Basil. an. 1569. saith he ) thou hast no a little swarved , when as thou wo●ldst have those Cleargy-men , whom thou oughtest only to advise to abstinence from mariage , compelled unto it by a certaine imperious violence : for is not this justly in the judgement of all Wise men to be accounted violence , when as against the Evangelicall institution , and the charge of the Holy Ghost , any man is constrained to the execution of private Decrees ? The Lord in the old Law appointed marriage to his Priest , which he is never read afterwards to have forbidden .

PA.

Master Brerely saith , n n Prot. Apol. ● . 2. ch. 2. sect. 7. that this Epistle is forged under the name of Ulrick Bishop of Augusta .

PRO.

Your Spanish Inquisitors have o o Index lib. pro●ibit . et expurg Bern. de Sand●val 〈◊〉 R●xas ●uss● edit. Ma●r . 1612. et per Turietin . Genevae 1619. H●ldar●●o Episcopo Augu●●●●o ep●●●ola ascripta pro●ibe●tur . pag. 47. 〈◊〉 . H. suppressed this Tes●imonie , and strucke it dead with a p p Deleatur tota Epistola V●a●rici de 〈◊〉 Cl●ri Ind expurg . H●p . Quirogae . edit . M●dr . an. 1584. in 〈◊〉 lit . O. Deleatur ; Let that whole Epistle be blotted out : but our learned bishop , Doctor Hall , q q The honour of the married Clergie , by Dr. Hall . lib 3. sect. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. prooves that this Huldericke wrote such a Treatise , and about the time assigned , and also that this Record is Authenticke ; that it is extant , ( as Illyricus saith ) in the Libraries of Germanie , that ou● Archbishop Parker , bishop Iewell , Iohn Foxe , had Copies of it in Parchment of great Antiquitie .

Besides , your owne man Aeneas Sylvius , afterwards Pope Pius the second , almost two hundred yeares agoe , mentions it , and reports the Argument of it ; for speaking of Ausburg , he saith , r r A●n . Sylvius de morib . German●ae . Saint Vdalricus huic praesidet , qui papam arguit de Concubinis : Vdalricke is the Saint of that City , who reproved the Pope concerning Concubines .

THE TENTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 900. to 1000.
PAPIST .

WE are now drawing on to the thousandth yeare , what say you to this tenth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

By the fall of the Romane Empi●e , Learning was now decayed , and the publike Service no longer to be understood , by reason of the change of the vulgar Tongues . Wernerus a Carthusian Monke a a Sanctitas Papas dimifit , et ad Imperato●es accessit hoc tempore . Wernerus Fascic . tempor . aetate 6. circa ann. 944. p. 6● . saith of this Age , That holinesse had left the Popes , and fled to the Emperours . Bellarmine saith , b b Nullum fuit indoctiu● et infelicius . Bell. lib. 4. de Pont. ca. 12. Seculum inselix in quo nulli Scriptore● illus●res . Id. in Chronolog . There was no Age so unlearned , so unluckie . And Baronius complaines saying c c Quae tunc facies Ecclesi● Romanae . Baron . to . 10. Annal. ann. 912. §. 8. What was then the face of the Roman Church ? when potent and base Whores bare all the sway at Rome ? at whose lust , Sees were changed , Bishoprickes bestowed , and their Lovers thrust into Saint Peters Chaire ? Insomuch as Baronius is glad to prepare his Reader with a d d Prae●ari aliquid necessarium duximus , ne quid s●andali pusillus animo patiatu● , si quando videre contiger●t abomi●ationem desolationis in templo . 〈◊〉 ibid. ann. 900. §. 1. Preface , before he would have him venter upon the Annals of this Age , Lest a weake man seeing ( in the Story of those times ) the abomination of Desolation sitting in the Temple , should bee offended , and not rather wonder , that there followed not immediatly the Desolation of the Temple . And he had reason to Preface as much , considering the corruption that grew in this Thousandth yeare , wherein e e Revelat. 20.3 . Satan was let loose . For at thi● time they of Rome forbad others to mar●y , and in the meane whiles themselves slept in an unlawfull bed : They also devised a carnall Presence of Christ in the Sacrament , so that ( as the noble Morney f f M●steri● of iniqui●ie the 37. p●o●●●●sion . p. ●08 . saith ) The lesse that they beleeved God in h●aven , the more carefull were they to affirme him to bee in the Bread , in the Priests hands , in his words , in his nods ; and that by these meanes when it pleased them , they could make him appeare upon earth . Thus dishonesty accompanied infidelitie ; and no marvell since ( as Ockam g g M●limores ex oe●a●t i●t 〈…〉 Dial. 〈…〉 , c●p. 26. saith ) A lewd life ( oftentimes ) blind●th the understanding . But le● us see whether in this Monkish Age , during this mist in Aegypt , wee can discover any light in the Land of Goshen

In this Age lived the Monke Radulphus Flaviace●sis , Stephanus Edvensis Bishop , Smaragdus h h Smaragdus Abbas Monasterij S. Michaelis scripsit in Psalterium ●pistolas , Evangeli● . Trithem . de scriptor . eccles. Abbot of Saint Michaels in Germany , and Aelfricke Abbot of Malmesburie , about the yeare , 975.

Of the Scriptures suf●iciencie , and Canon .

Flaviacensis compares the Scripture to a well-furnished Table , or Ordinarie . It is ( saith hee ) i i Sacra scriptura mensa nobis est , & spiritalis refectio , ad consolati●nem nobis data contrà iniraicos . Rad. Flav. in L●vit . li. 17. cap. 5. our spirituall refection , and Cordiall given to us against the heart-qualmes of our enemies . The same Author speaking of Bookes pertainning to sacred Historie k k Nam Tobias , ●udith , ●t Macab●or●m , quamvis ad instructionem Ecclesie legantur ; perfectam tamen non habe●t authoritatem . Id. in p●ae●at . in lib. 14. Levit. pag. 203. saith ; The Bookes of Tobit , Iudith , and of the Machabees , though they bee read ●or the Churches instruction , yet they have not any perfect Authoritie .

In like sort Aelfricke Abbot of Malmesburie , in his Saxon Treatie of the old Testament , tell us ; l l Ael●rick of the Old Testament . pag. 17 , 22 , 23. There are two Bookes more placed with Salomons workes , as if he had made them , which for likenesse of Stile , and profitable vse ; have gone for his , but Iesus the sonne of Syrach composed them : one is called Liber Sapientiae , the Booke of Wisdome , and the other , Ecclesiasticus , very large Bookes , and read in the Church of long custome , for much good instruction : amongst these Bookes the Church hath accustomed to place two other tending to the glory of God , and intituled Maccabaeorum : I have turned them into English , and so reade them you may ( if you please ) for your owne instruction . Now by this Saxon Treatise , written by Aelfricus Abbas , about the time of King Edgar , ( seven hundred yeares agoe ) it appeares what was the Canon of holy Scripture here then received , and that the Church of England had it so long agoe in her Mother tongue .

Of Communion under both , and number of Sacraments .

Stephanus Edvensis saith m m Quotidiè nobis haec dona praestantur , quando corpus et sanguis in Altari sumuntur . Steph. Edvens . de Sacram. Altaris . ca. ●7 . in Biblioth. Patr. Paris . 1589. edi● . 2. per Margarin de la Bigne . to . 6. p. 587 These gif●s or benefits ●re dayly performed unto us , when the Body and Bloud of Christ is taken at the Altar .

Aelfricke mentions but two Sacraments , of Baptisme , a●d the Lords Supper ; the same which Gods people had under the Law ; who though they had many Rites and Ceremonies , yet ( in proper sense ) but two Sacraments ; his words are these ; n n Aelfricks Sermon on E●ster day , pag 24. editionis Ioan. Da●● . Load . The Apostle Paul saith [ 1 Cor. chap. 10. vers. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. ] That the Israelites did eate the same ghostly meate , and drinke the same ghostly drinke ; because that heavenly meate that fed them fortie yeares , and that water which from the Stone did flow , had signification of Christs Body , and his Bloud , that now bee offered dayly in Gods Church . So that as a good Author saith , o o Seculum de●imum d●● tantum ag●●●vit Sacram●nta . Ioan a Munste , ●n Vor●lage nobilis discurspropos . 3. This Age acknowledged onely two Sacraments .

Of the Eucharist .

Our English Abbot Aelfricke in his Saxon Homily , which was appointed publikely to be read to the people in England , on Easter day , before they received the Communion , hath these wordes ; p p Ael●●ick i● die S. Pas●●● . A Se●mon on ● ast●r d●y . pag. 23. All our For●fathers they did eate the same Ghostly meate , and dranke the same Ghostly drinke ; they dranke truely of the stone that followed them , and that stone was Christ ; neither was that stone then from which the water ranne bodyly Christ , but it signifyed Christ . The same Abbot saith , q q Id. ib●d. pag 12. Men have often searched , and doe yet often search ( so that it seemes that this was then in question , and so before Berengarius time ) how bread that is gathered of Corne , may be turned to Christs body , or how wine that is press●d out of many grapes , is turned through one blessing to the Lords Bloud : and the resolution returned is this : r r Id. ibid. p●● 12 , 13 , 14. Now say wee to such m●n ; that some things bee spoken of Christ by signification , some thing by thing certaine : true thing and certaine is that Christ was borne of a Maid : Hee is said Bread by signification , and a Lambe , and a Lyon ; Hee is called Bread , because hee is our life , hee is said to bee a Lambe for his Innocencie . But Christ is not so notwithstanding after true nature , neither Bread , nor a Lambe . Why is then the holy Housell called Christs Body , or his Bloud , if it be not truely that it is called ? Without they be seene bread and wine both in figure and taste ; and they ●ee truly after their hallowing , Christs body and blood , through Ghostly mysterie .

And againe , s s Ibid. pag. 1● . & 18. Much is betwixt the body Christ suffered in , and the body that is hallowed to Housel : the body truely that Christ suffered in was borne of the flesh of Mary , with bloud and with bone ; and his Ghostly body which wee call the Housel , is gathered of many Cornes , without bloud and bone ; and therefore nothing is to bee understood therein bodily , but all is Ghostly to bee understood . Here wee see , the body of Christ borne of the blessed Virgin , the body of fl●sh , is plainly distinguished from the consecrated substance of bread , or the Body Sacramentall , which the Homilist cals Ghostly .

And againe , Ibid. pag. 20. This Mysterie i● a pledge and a figure ; Christs body is truth it selfe ; the pledge we doe keepe Mistically , untill wee bee come to the truth it selfe , and then is this pledge ended . Truely it is Christs body and bloud not Bodily but Ghostly ; and ye should not search how it is done , but hold it in your beliefe that it is so done .

The like matter also was delivered to the Clergie by the Bishops at their Synods , out of two other writings of the same u u A●lfricks Sermon● , joyned with the Saxon Homily , printed at London by Iohn Day , and reprinted Ann. 1623. Aelfricke ; in the one whereof directed to Wulfsine Bishop of Shy●burne , we reade thus : x x Pag. 45. That holy Housel is Christs body , not Bodily , but Ghostly ; not the body which he suffered in , and so forth .

In the other witten to Wulf●tane Archbishop of York , thus : y y Pag 51. That lively bread is not bodily so , nor the selfe-same body that Christ suffered in ; nor that holy wine is the Saviours bloud which was shed for us in bodily thing , but in Ghostly understanding ; both be truely the bread his body , and the wine also his bloud , as was the heavenly bread which wee call Manna : which words are to be seene mangled z z Non sit tamen hoc sacrificium corpus ejus in quo p●ssus est pronobis ; neque sanguis ejus quem pro nobi● effu●●t , sed spirit●alitèr corpus ejus efficitur et s●ngu●● sicut Manna . and razed in a Manuscript , in Bennets Colledge in Cambridge , as our learned Antiquarie of Oxford , hath well observed a a D. ●ames of the corruption of the Fathers . part. 2. pag. 55. . And we may conceive it to be done by some Papist , for that it plainely confutes the doctrine of Transubstantiation ; the best is , the evidence is restored out of another Copie .

PA.

Here is much a doe with an old Record , which your selves will not ( haply ) justifie in every poynt .

PRO.

The Record is both ancient and authenticke ; but to be free from errour , is the priviledge of holy writ : your selves stand not to all which the Fathers , even of the first Age wrote . Why then sh●uld we make good all that was delivered in this later , and ignorant Age , so much cumbred with Monkery ? There are indeed in this Homily some suspicious wordes ; as where it speakes of the Masse to be profitable to the quicke and dead , of the mixture of water with wine ; and a report of two vaine miracles , which notwithstanding , seeme to have beene infarced ; for that they stand in their pl●ce unaptly , and witho●t purpose , and the matter witho●t th●m , both before and af●er , doth hang in it selfe tog●th●r most orde●ly : besides , these mistakes they are but touched by the way , and a●e different from th● whole scope of the Authour .

Thus was Priest and people taught to believe in the Chu●ch of England , above sixe hund●ed yeares agoe ; for this Sermon was written in the old Saxon tongue befo●e the Conqu●st , and appointed in the reigne of the Saxons to be spoken to the people at Easter before they should rec●ive the Communion . Neither was Aelfricke the first Authour of this Homily , but the Translatour the●eof out of Latine into the old English , or Saxon tongue ; the Homily it selfe was ex●ant before his time , and the resolution thereof is the same with that of Ber●●am , and in many places directly translated out of him ; so that the doctrine is both ancient and Orthodoxe ; whereas that of Transubstantiation was not publickly taught in the Church of England , till Lanfranck and others , a thousand yeares after Christ , came with an Italian tricke , and expounded Species and forma panis , for the qualities and accidents of bread without subject or substance ; But from the b●ginning it was not so .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Concerning Images , Churches●an ●an a middle cou●se , neither rudely breaking them , nor supe●s●itiously adoring them ; and this opinion they stoutly maintained , and for some ages after continued most constant therein , as C●ss●●der b b s●ith ; and hee saith true , as appeares by the pr●ctise of the French in the ninth , and the Almaines in the tw●lfth Age.

The Abbat Smaragdus saith ; that Christ onely makes Inte●ces●ion in heaven for us , performing that with the Father , which he p●titioned of the Father ; being both our Mediator to preferre our Petitions , and our Creator to grant our r●qu●sts . In li●e sort , Radulphus Flaviacensis calls the Angell of the covenant Christ Iesus , d d Angelus is●e non nisi Ponti●ex ille summu● missus s●ilice● à ●atre ad homines , et ab hominibus ad Patrem remissus , ut hominum caussas ●pud Patr●m peroret , Mediat●r Dei , hominumque . R●d Fl●vi●● , in Levit. lib. 2. cap. 24. The Master of Requests to preferre our suits in the court of Heaven , and to mediate betwixt God and men . Now if he by his Fathers Patent , be Master of Requests ; surely wee may not without Commission and warrantie out of Gods word , constitute others , either Saints , or Angels , Mediators of our Prayers .

Of Faith and Workes .

It is of necessitie , that bel●evers should bee saved onely by the faith of Christ e e Necesse est sold fide Chris●i salva●●●redentes● Smaragd . in G●lat . cap. 3. in Catal. Test. verit . l● 11. ; saith Smaragdus the Abbot . Who is it that can doe all that God hath commanded ? wee are not come to that blessednesse or merit , to yeeld him obedience in all things f f Non ejus beatudinis sumus ●ut m●riti , ut i● universis illi obtemperemus . Fl●viac . in L●vi●i● . lib. 20. cap 1. , saith Flaviacensis : For as g g Alij bon● fa●iunt non be●● , quia si●e side pla●ere D●● non p●ssunt . Id. ibid l● 15. 〈◊〉 ● . he saith , One may doe bonum , and not benè ; one without grace may doe a Morall act , as give Almes ; the act Morally good , ex genere & objecto , but not good ex fine & circumstantijs , in case it be given out of vaine glory , or ●he like .

PA.

You taxed this Age for imposing single life on the Clergie , this was no Innovation .

PRO.

In this Age there arose great contention about Priests marriage : At length about the yeare 975. the matter was referred to the Roode of Grace , which as the h h Literae do●ent , Dominic●m imaginem expressè locutam , Clericos , co●umque fautores , con●udisse . Gu● . Malmes . de gest . Ang●● li. 2. cap. 9. & Polychron . lib. 6. cap. 12. pa. 240. Annalists , and Legendaries say ) returned this answere : God forbid it should be so , God forbid it should bee so , you have judged well once ( said the Roode ) and to change that againe is not good . Now this Oracle made for Saint Dunstan , i i Absit ut hoc siat● absit hoc ut fiat ; judicastis benè m●t●retis non b●nè . No●● L●genda Angliae . de ● . Dunstano pag. 94. and against the Priests , who said this was but a subtile tricke of the Monks , in placing behind the wall a man of their owne , who through ● T●unke uttered those words in the mouth of the Roode ; the matter therefore came againe to s●anning , the Prelats and the States met at k k Cl●ve , or Calne , ut Mal●●sbur . vel T●●ne . ut Hen● . Huntingd. Cleve in Wiltshire ; where after hot and sharpe Disputation on either side , a heavie mischance fell out : for whether through the weakenesse of the Foundation , or the overpresse of weight , or both , l l Sola●ium totum repen●●●um ●xibus & ●ra●ibu● dissiluit et co●●idit ; omnibus ad terram ●lisis , solus Dunstanus stans super un●m trabem quae superstes er●t , ●vasit pr●be . Gu●l M●lms . quò sup●a . The upper L●ft , where the Councell sate , fell downe , and many of the People were hurt , and some slaine outright . But Dunstan the Monkes Prolocutor remained unhurt ; For the Post whereon his Chaire stood , remained safe . By this fall , fell the cause of the Secular Priests , and they of Dunstans side thought these rotten joysts foundation enough whreon to build their Prohibition of Marriage . But Henrie Archdeacon of Huntington interprets this casualtie more probably , To m m Signum scilicet Dei ex●elsi fu●t , quod proditione● et inter●ectione Regis su● , ab amo●e Dei , ●asuri essent , et a diversis gentibus ●ign● contrit●●e conterendi . Henr. Huntingd. Hist. lib. 5. pag. 357. be a signe from God , that by their Treason and murder of their King ( who was slaine the yeare after ) they should fall from Gods favour , and be crushed by other Nations , as in the event it prooved . And thus did Dunstan by his fayned Miracles seduce King Edgar to drive out the Secular Priests ; wh●re yet Dunstan ( haply ) thought not to thrust married men out of the Clergie , but to thrust married Clergie men out of Cathedrall Churches , because they ●equired a daily attendance , as the Learned bishop Doctor n n The honour of the m●rried Clergie . lib. 3. sect ●0 . Hall hath observed .

Howsoever it fell out , it is worth the observing , that the Clergy pleaded Praescription for themselves ; for so their owne Monke of Malmesbury hath recorded their plea ; they alleadged saith he ; o o Di●entes , ingen● esse et miserabl●e ded●●us , ut nov●● advena veteres ●olonos migr●re compelle●et : hoc nec Deo gratum puta●● , qui veterem habitationem concessisses , ne● alicu● pr●●o homini qui fi●i idem t●●●re re posset quod alijs pre●●d●c●o acc●disse 〈◊〉 . M●lmes . quo up●● . That it was a great sh●me , that these upstart Monks should thrust o●t the ancient possessors of those places ; that this was neither pleasing to God , who gave them that long continued habitation , nor yet to any good man , who might justly feare the same hard m●asure which was offered to them . Mathew of Westminster speaking of Pope Gregorie the seaventh , saith ; that p p Sacerdotes ux●●atos à d●vino o●●i●io ●movit , novo ●xemplo , et ut mult● vi●um est , inconsi●erato ●r●●udicio● cont●à sactorum patrum sent●n●●● Math. Westmon . ad an. 10●● . He r●moved married Priests from their function : a new example , and as many thought , inconsiderately prejudicial● , against the judgement of the holy Fathers ; And Henrie of Huntington saith , q q Ans●lmus A●chiep . Concilium an● Londoniam te●uit , in q●o prohib●●●uxores Sacerdot 〈◊〉 Anglorum , 〈◊〉 non prohibitas Henr. ●untingd . pa. 378. Archbishop Anselme held a Synod at London , wherein hee forbad wives to the Priests of England , before not forbidden . Was not this now an Innovation ?

Besides , r r Acts & Monuments Vol. 1. Book 3. pag 150● ad ann. 941. we find that in King Edmunds reigne , a West Saxon Prince , ( before the dayes of Edgar or Dun●tan ) bishop Osulphus with Athelme and Vlricke Laicks , thrust out the Monks of Evesham , and placed Canons ( married Priests ) in their roome .

And afte●wards , when not onely the meaner sort , but the Nobles and great ones ●ided ; even then also , s s P●oceribus succlamantibus prae●udioiū , quòd Clerici passi fuerant injustè . H. Huntingd. loc. citato . Optimates , Abbates cum Monachis , de Monaste●ijs , in quibus Edgorus eos locaverat expule●unt ; et Clericos● ut pri●s loco ●o●ii●i●n uxo●ibus induxe●unt ; nam unus eorum Aelferius nomi●e omnia penè Monasteria subvertit . Mat. Westmon . ad ann. 97● . Alferus a Mercian Duke , favouring the cause of married Priests , cast out the Monks , and restored againe the ancient revenewes to the Clerks ; and it seemes they were the ancient owners , and others but incommers ; inasmuch as divers Cathedrall Churches originally were founded in married Cleargy-men , and afterwards translated from them to Monks ; as appeares by that which the Monks of Worcester wrote t t Charta R. Edgari de Oswaldeslaw extat inter epist. veterum Hibernic . apud D. lac. Vsserium . under their Oswald Archbishop of Yorke : Per me fundatus Fuit ex Clericis Monachatus . That is , By me were Monks first founded out of Cle●ks . So that the Monks were not the first possessors , but came in by such as Dunstan ; who wrought with that good King Edgar , by dreames , visions , and miracles , mostly tending to Monkery ; as namely , that , u u Nova Legenda Angliae de S Dunstano pa. 90. & Polychron . lib. 6. cap. 13. pag. 241. When the Devill in the likenesse of a faire woman , tempted Dunstan to l●st , he caught him by the nose with an hot paire of tongs , and made him roare out for mercie : that , x x Legend ibid p 94. & Polychron . loc. citato . Eastward● That y y Cithera illius absque ullo hominis ●mpulsis , Antiphona personuit . Legend . loc. citat . pag. 89. Polych●on . ibid. quò suprà . Dunstans harpe , hanging upon the wall , played by 〈◊〉 selfe , the tune of the Anthem , Gaudent in coelis animae Sanctorum .

By the meanes of this Dunstan , and his Cousins Athelwold , and Oswald , King Edgar was set on worke for the building of religious houses ; wherein he surpas●ed Charles the Great , for whereas he z z Polychron . li. 5 cap. 26. pag. 220. built as many as there be letters in the Alphabet , or A. B. C. King Edgar as ( app●ares by the Chart●r of the foundation of Worcester Church a a Carta Regis E●gari d● O●waldes law quo suprà . ) he built almost as many as there be Sundayes in the yeare . I have made ( saith he ) 47 Monasteries , and I intend if God grant life , to make them up fiftie , which seemes to be the number that Dunstan set him for his penance .

THE ELEVENTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 1000. to 1100.
PAPIST .

YOu said of the last Age , that Satan was let loose ; was he bound in this ?

PROTESTANT .

Hee that brake loose in the former , tyrann●zed in this : for now those two great Enemies of the Church , the Pope and the Turke , the one in the East , and the other in the West , began to rise to their greatnesse : about the y●are 1075 lived Pope a a 〈…〉 Card. ap. ●Orth●●● . Granum in 〈◊〉 . ●e●um expe●end & 〈◊〉 p. 40. Hildebrand , who forbad marriage , and deposed Kings from their l●wfull thrones ; so that for his doctrine the Churches did ring of him for an Antichrist . In their Sermons ( 〈…〉 Annal. 〈◊〉 li. ● p●g . ●73 . saith Aventine , bo●n about the yeare 1466 ) they declared him to be Antich●ist , that under the title of Christ , he playd the part of Antichrist : c c 2 〈◊〉 2 4. That he sits in Babylon in the Temple of God , and is advanced above all that is called God ; as if he were God , he glorifieth , that he cannot erre .

d d Suavis hom● sacerdotes qu● uxores habent ●●gitim●s sacr●si●os esse pe●negat ; interim tam●n ●●●●tatores , adult●ros , incest●os●s a●is admovet . Aventin . This fine man denyes those Priests which have lawfull wives , to be Priests at all ; in the meane time he admits to the Altar , Whoremongers , Adulterers , Incestuous persons : and afterwards Everard Bishop of Saltzburg in Germanie , in an assembly at Regenspurge spake thus of the Pope .

e e Hildebrandus — p●lmus specie religionis Antichristi Imperij fundamenta ●ecit : perditus homo ille ( que●a Antichristum vocare sol●nt ) in ●ujus fronte contumeliae nomen scriptum est , Deus sum , err●re non possum , in templo Dei sedet , longè lateque dominatur . Id. lib. 7 pag 684. Hildebrand under colour of Religion , layd the foundation of Antichrist's kingdome : thus doth that child of perdition , ( whom they use to call Antichrist ) in whose forehead is written the name of blasphemie , [ Revel. 13.2 . ] I am God , I cannot erre , he sits in the Temple of God , and beareth rule far and neere .

Now began the Croisier staffe to beate downe Crownes and Scepters , when Hildebrand deposed the Emperour , Henry the fourth ; and yet this fact of his was opposed and condemned by divers worthy Councels , Bishops and Historians , both in France and Germany ; and the like Papall Vsurpations , Appeales , and Investitures were also resisted in England . Hubert your Legate ( f f Fidelitatem facere nolui ●●●●volo : qu●a nec ego prom●si , nec antecessores m●●s ante●esso●i●us tuis id 〈◊〉 comperio D. Vsserius de eccles. success . c. 7. s●ct 9. ex Lanfranc . Epist. M S. in Biblioth. D. Rob. Cotton . saith William the Conquerour in his letter to Gregory the seventh ) came unto me , warning me from your Holinesse , that I should doe fealty to you , and your successors ; as for fealty , I neither would doe it to you , neither will I ; because I neither promised it my selfe , nor doe I find that my predecessors have done that to your predecessors . When Anselme an Italian , was chosen Archbishop of Canterbury , he craved leave of king William the second to goe to Rome , to receive his Pall of Pope Vrban , wherewith the King greatly offended , answered , g g Rex allegavit , quòd n●llus Archi●● . v●l Episcopus Regni su● , Cu●ia Romanae vel Papae subess●t ; praecipu● cùm ipse omnes l●b●rtates haberet in regno suo , quas Imperator vendic●bat in Imperio . Math. P●ris . Hist. an. 1094. & Holinshead . Hist. ann. 1099. pag 24. That no Archbishop , nor bishop in his realm , was subject to the Court of Rome , or the Pope ; and that he had that libertie in his realme , that the Emperour had in his Empire .

Anselme therefore was accused of high treason ; and being still desirous to goe to Rome , the King told him , That if hee would promise , and sweare , neither to goe nor Appeale to Rome for any affaires whatsoever ; he should then well and peaceably enjoy his Bishopricke : if not , that it should be free for him to passe the Seas , but never to returne ; as the Monke of Saint Albans h h Nec p●o quovis negotio Romanae ●edi● au●ien●iam Appell●tu●u● . Id. ibid. reports the matter .

Now also there arose great contention about the carnall presence of Christ in the Sacrament , under Pope Victor , and Nicholas the second , Hildebrand being the brand that kindled it , making Berengarius subscribe to their Tenet ; That all the faithfull in the Sacrament doe really teare with their teeth the body of Christ ; which position neverthelesse in these dayes is with them accounted hereticall . And to say the truth , they really teare the body of Christ , who by their ambition doe miserably teare in pieces the Church of Christ .

Now to proceede ; there lived in this Age , i i Fulbert . Episc. Ca●notens . ●laruit an . M X. T●ithem . d● s●●p eccles. Fulbertus bishop of Chartres , k k Anselm Laudunens . Sc●●last . ●cripsit Glossam I●t●rli● . que extat 〈…〉 Ordinari●●t Lyr●● . B●ll . d● scrip● eccles Anselme of Laon , Author of the Interlineall Glosse . Theophylact Archbishop of the Bulgarians , a great follower of Chrysostome , and indeed his Epitomizer , or Abbreviator , and our Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury , a man of speciall note in this Age. For as the l l 〈◊〉 M●lms●●r . de 〈◊〉 . Anglor . Ponti● . lib. 1 pag. 223. Monke of Malmsbury reports , in the Councel at Barre , when the Greekes disputed against Pope Vrban so eagerly against the procession of the Holy Ghost , that the Pope was at a Non plus , remembring himselfe that Anselme was in the Councel , he cried aloud before the whole Councel , Pater & Magister Anselme ubi es ? Oh my Father and Master Anselme where are you ? come now and defend your Mother , the Church : and when the● brought him in presence among them , Pope Vrban said , Includamus hunc in orbe nostro , quasi alterius orbis papam , Let us inclose him in our Circle , as the Pope of the other world .

m m ●ish V●her●●●t●logue ●●t●logue . Now also lived Oecumenius , Radulphus Ardens , and Berengarius . And now let us see , what these good men , and ●●ue Cathol●cke witnesses can say to the matter in qu●stion .

Of the Scriptures su●ficiencie , and Canon .

Sa●nt Paul saith of the Scriptures , that n n 1 Ti● . 3.15 , 10 , 1● . They are able to make us wise unto salvation , that the man of God may bee pe●fited , thorowly furnished unto all good workes . That the man of God ( saith O●cumenius o o Occum . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ) may bee not onely partaker , after a vulgar manner of every good worke , but perfect and compleate by the doctrine of the Scrip●u●e . And Anselme in his Commentarie upon this place saith , p p Quae literae p●ssunt te insl●uere id est , su●fi●ien●èr ●oc●am r●dd●●● ad eternam salutem conseque●dā . A●s●lm . t●m. 2. p●g. 121. They are able to make thee sufficiently learned , to obtaine eternall salvation .

Petrus Cluniacensis , Abbot of Clugin , abutting on these times ( for he was saith q q S. Be●na●di aequalis fuit . B●lla●m . de Script . 〈◊〉 . Bellarmine , of the same standing with Saint Bernard , who was borne in this Age , ●ut flourished about the yeare 1130 ) after the recitall of the canonicall bookes saith , that r r R●stant p●s● h●● 〈◊〉 c●●i●os S. S●ripture lib●os s●x non r●t●c●●d● lib●● ; Sa●i●nt●ae . 〈◊〉 silij Sira● , T● b●e ●ud●th , ●t ut●●que M●ca●●●rum ; qui ●tsi a● ill●m sublim●m prae●e●entium d●gnitatem perveni . ● non po●uciunt● p●opter laud . bil●m tamen ●t pernecessa●●am d●●trinam ab ●●●lesi● su ●ipt m●●uerunt . P●tr . 〈◊〉 d● authorit . V. Test. Epist. 2. advers. Petrobrus . There are besides the Authenticall bookes , ●ixe others not to be rejected , as namely , Iudith , Tobias , Wisdome , Ecclesiasticus , and the two bookes of Maccabees , which though they attaine not t● the high dignitie of the former , yet they are received of the Church , as containing necessary and profitable doctrine .

Of Communion under both ; and number of Sacraments .

Theophylact sharply reproves those , who delighted in drinking alone , and quaffing by themselves , saying to such , s s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theophyl . in 1. Co● . cap 11. v. 25. M. S. in A●chivis Biblioth. Bodle●anae Oxon. How dost thou take thy cup alone , considering that the dreadfull Chalice is alike delivered unto all . The Normans ( t t Normanni mané Domini●i co●poris ●t sanguinis mu●imine saginati — Mat. P●ris . in ●araldo . saith Mathew Paris ) th● morning before they fought with Harald , strengthned themselves with the body and bloud of Christ . Hildebert B. of Mans , ●●lates and approves that Canon of the Councel of Brachara , which condemneth the delivering of the bread sopt in the wine to the Laitie , for the whole Communion . It is the manner ( saith Hildebert u u Consuetudinis est● Eucha●istiam nulli n●si intinctam da●● quod n●c ex Dominica Institutione , nec ●x sanctionibus authent●●is reperitur assumptum . Hildebeit . Cenoman . Epist. 64. in Biblioth. Patr. to . 12. pag 338. Col● Agri● . 1618. ) in your monasteries to give the Sacramentall bread to none , but dipt in the wine , which custome we find is not taken either from the Lords institution , nor out of authencall constitutions . Now they that misliked the receiving of the bread dipt in wine , how would they have beene pleased with a dry feast ? for of the two , it is better to receive the bread dipt in wine , than the bread and no wine at all . Fulbertus shewes us the way of Christian Religion , Is to believe the Trinitie , and veritie of the Deitie , and to know the cause of his Baptisme , and in whom x x Terti on est , nosse in quo duo v●t● S●cramenta , ●l●●st Dominici c●rpori● et s●nguinu c●tinentur . 〈◊〉 e●ist . 〈◊〉 Biblioth● Pa●● . to . 3 p●● . ●35 . edit . P●●is . an 1589. ( duo vitae Sacramenta ) the two Sacraments of our life are contained . Anselme mentions y y Conanu●●a faerunt ●mnibus ●udaeis Sa●●●men●a , sed non communis gra●●a : it● et nunc Baptismus 〈◊〉 omnibus ●ō●unis est , ●●d non virtus Baptismi . Commune nobis om●ibus est ●●crament●m corpo●is & sangu●uis Domini , sed non co●muri● v●●tus Sacramen●● . Anselm . in 1. Cor. ●●p o. to 2. p. 170. but two Sacraments common to us under the Gosp●l , as the other were to the Iewes under the law ; they two , and we two , two , and no more .

Of the Eucharist .

In the year 1608 , there were published at Paris certaine works of Fulbertus z z Que tam a●res●tand●●●e 〈…〉 temporis qu●m a● G●ll●rum his●●riam pe●tine●t . pertaining as wel to the refuting of the heresies of this time ( for so saith the Inscription ) as to the clearing of the history of the French . Among these things that appertain to the confutatio●●f the heresies of this time , there is one specially , fol. 168. laid down in these words , a a Nis● manda●averitis in●uit ●arn●m fili●●●minis , 〈◊〉 sanguinem biber●●i● , non ●abebi●●s vitam in vobis●●a●m●s vel slagitium ●ide●ur ●●bere ; sigu●a ergo 〈…〉 . Vnlesse ( saith Christ ) ye eat the flesh of the Son of man , and drink his bloud , ye shall not have life in you ; he seemeth to command an outrage or wickednesse ; It is therefore a figure , will the Heretick say , requiring us only to communicate with the Lords passion and sweetly and profitably to lay up in our memory , that his fl●sh was crucified & wounded for us . He that put in these words ( Dicet Haereticus ) thought he had notably met with the Hereticks of this time ; but was not aware , that therby he made S. Austin an Hereticke for company ; for the words alleadged , are S. Austins de doctrinâ Christianâ . lib. 3. cap. 16. Which some belike having put the publisher in mind of , he was glad to put this among his Errata ; b b Nota 〈…〉 1618. to●● ●● pag. 4● . & to confesse that these two words [ Dicet Haereticus ] were not to be found in the Manuscript copie which he had from P●tavius ; bu● telleth us not what we are to think of him , that for the countenancing of the Popish cause , ventured so shamefully to abuse S. Austin , as both the learned Archbishop of Armagh , Doctor c c 〈…〉 15.16 . Vsher , and Master d d 〈…〉 Lords Supp●r . 〈…〉 Moulin have observed .

PA.

Here is much a doe about a mistake of two words , 〈…〉 6. saith our I●suit Maloune .

PRO.

There hath been much a doe ere this about one word , the word Deipara ; whether the blessed Virgin Ma●y were to be called the mother of God , or no ; great difference raised in the Church touching the Sacrament , and all about three prepositions , Trans , Con , and Sub ; and the greatest stirre that ever was in Gods Church , was about one letter ; ( it was but one little Iota ) whilst the Arrians●eld ●eld Christ to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the like substance with the Father , but denied him to bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Consubstantiall , of the same substance with the Father . Besides , was it a matter of nothing to corrupt the ancient writers , Austin , or Fulbertus , or both ? or could this Dicet Haereticus , in probability be the mistake of the Printer ? and not rather purposely done by such as could not brooke the truth of that doctrine which Fulbert delivered out of S. Austine . But the same Fulbert elswhere , in a higher straine , tels us of a Spirituall , yet reall receiving of Christ , saying , f f Exere palatum fidei , dilata fauces sp●i , vis●●r● charitatis extende , et sume panem vitae , interioris hominis alimentum . Fulb●●● . Episc. in Bibl●oth . S. Pat. Paris . 1589. ●o. 3. col. 640. in Epist. ad Adeodat . Hold ready the mouth of thy Faith , open the jawes of hope , str●tch out the bowels of love , and take the bread of life , which is the nourishment of the inward man .

Objection .

Theophylact saith , * * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theop●ylact in Ioan. cap. 6 v. 54 pag 654. Qui manducat me vivit propter me , dum quodammodò miscetur mihi , e● transelementatur in me . Theophylact. ibid. He that eateth me , shall live by mee ; forasmuch as after a sort , he is mingled with me , and trans-elementated into me , or changed into me .

Answer .

Theophylact is not of that credit , as being but a late writer , above a thousand yeares after Christ , and therefore farre short of Primitive antiq●itie , living as Bellarmine saith in his catalogue of Ecclesia●ticke writers , about the yeare 1071. Besides , transelementaion proveth not transubstantiation ; for in transubstantiation , the matter is destroyed , and the quantitie and accidents remaine ; and in trans-elementation , the matter remaineth , and the essentiall accidentall formes are altered .

Objection .

Yea but Bellarmine * * Theophylactu● di●it panem transmuta●i in carnem Domini . Theophyl . i● cap. 26. Math. & in cap 6. Ioan Bellar. li. 2. de Euchar . cap. 34 §. Sed. alleadgeth Theophylact saying , of the Bread , that it is trans-elementated into the body of Christ , and he useth the word , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

Answer .

Theophylact can best tell us his own meaning● now the same Theophylact , who said that bread was trans-elemen●ated into Christs body , saith also , nos in Christum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that we also are trans-elemē●ated into Christ ; that a Christian and faithfull Communicant is in a manner t●ans-elementated i●to Christ ; for so his words are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ● id . in cap. 6. Ioan. N●w they will not say that we are transubstantiated into Christ ; therefore neither doth Theophylact by the word Trans-elementation , used of the bread and wine understand any substantiall , but onely a Sacramentall change , in respect of the use and effect . And so I proceed . At this time also Berenger Archdeacon of Angiers in France , resisted the corporall presence .

PA.

I challenge Berenger .

PRO.

You cannot justly except against him , either for his life or his learning● In these times ( g g Fuisse in pretio hac tempestate constat et Odi ●onem Abb●t . C●uniac & B●rengarium Turonens vi●os s●nct●●●te & doctri●à in●igne● Plat in Ioan. 1● . saith Platina ) Odo Abbot of Clunie , and Berenger of Tours , were of great account , for their excellent learning , and holinesse of life . Sigebert Abbot of G●mbloux saith , h h Liberalium artium , et a●●lius 〈◊〉 p●ritia 〈◊〉 Sig●be●t . Gembl●●● de ●llustr . ●ccles . S●●ptor cap. 155. that Berenger was well skilled in the Liberall arts , and an excellent Logician ; Hildebert Bishop of Mans , and afterwards Archbishop of Tou●s , was his Scholler , and honoured his deceased master with this Epitaph i i G●l● Malms●ur . de 〈…〉 . ●ngl . lib. 3. p●g. 113 & 114. . Vir vere sapiens , & parte beatus ab omni , Qui co●los animâ , corpore ditat humum ; Post obitum vivam secùm , secùm requiescam , Nec fiat melior sors mea , sorte suâ . He was a man , was blest on every part , The earth hath his body , the heavens his heart , My wish shall be , that at my end , My soule may rest with this my friend .

PA.

What though he opposed the reall presence ; this was but one Doctors opinion , which himselfe br●ached without any former Catholicke precedent ?

PRO.

That is not so ; for his country-man Bertram , who was a Monke of Corbey Abbey in France , opposed the same long before him : and Duval a Doctor of Sorbone saith , k k Duvalius ●it Amalarium unà cùm Ioanne Scoto fuisse Berengarij p●aecursores . Andr. Duvalius in notis ad Flor. in Psal. 80. teste D Iacob . Vsserio in Gotteschalco . cap 8. that Amalarius and Ioannes Scotus were Berengers fore-runners . The tru●h is , he neither wanted fore-runners , nor followers , and favourers . Sigeberts Chronicle speaking of Berengers Tenet , faith , That there was much disputation , and by many , both by word and writing , against him , and for him . Where the learned bishop Vsher observes , l l Iacob . Vsser . de Christian . eccles. suc●essione ca. 7. nu. 26. that the words , Et pro eo , and for him , specially favouring Berengers cause , are left out in some Edition● ; m m Vndè contrà eum multùm à multis et verbis & scriptis dispuratum est . Sigebert . Gemblac● Chron. ad an. 1051. Par. 1583. but they are to bee found in other authenticke copies : n n Vndè contrà ●um , & pro ●o , multùm à multis , et verbis et scriptis disputatum est . Sigebe●t . Chron. à Miraeo edit. Antu●rp . ann. 1608. & apud Surium to . 2. vit. Sanctor . April . 22. Colon. 1521. and wee may by the way observe , that this poynt of carnall presence , or the Sacrament Sub Spectebus , ( for so they terme it ) was but a disputable point , pro and contra ; and no matter of Faith in Berengers dayes . Indeed this doctrine was borne downe by the Popes power , so that divers durst not make open profession thereof , yet privately they imployed both their tongues and pens in defence thereof ; and some even in a Romane Councel , ( purposely called against Berenger ) stood in Defence of his figurative sense of the Sacramentall words , as appeares by the o o Quid●m ve●ò coecitate nimia et longà perculsi , ●iguram tantum , substantiale illud corpus esse conabantur as●ruere Concilior . tom 3. edit. à Binnio . p●●t 2 p. 1286. Acts of the same Councel . In a word , Mathew of Westminster saith , p p Berenga●ius Turon●ns . in haeret●●● p●olapsus pravitatem omnes Gallos , Ital●s , et Anglos , suis ●àm penè cor●uperat pravitatibus . M●th . Westmon . ad a●● . 1087. that Berenger had almost drawne all France , Italie , a●d England to his opinion : so that the Berengarians did not lu●ke in any obscure nooke , or corner of the world , but spread themselves into the famousest parts of Europe .

PA.

Father Parsons saith , q q Parsons in his three Conv●rs . p●rt . 1. chap. 10. nu. 21. that Berenger Recanted ; so that you cannot account him one of your side .

PRO.

Indeed Berenger was called , and appeared before divers Councels , was questioned , and cens●red by f●u●e severall r r ●eo 9 Victor . 2. Nicol 2. Gr●gor . ● . Popes ; and there was a forme of Recantation tendred to him , the tenour whereof is this , s s ●go Be●●nganus — p●osi●●●r me ●●n●r● , pan●m & vinum quae in Alta●● ponuntur , p●st Conse●ration●m non s●l●●m Sa●ram●ntum s●d●●●●m ●●rum ●●rp●s , & s●●guin●m D●mini nos●●i Ie●u Chris●i e●●e , & 〈…〉 sacram●●to , 〈…〉 ●●ni●●s Sa●●rd●tum , trac●ari , ●ia●g● , & sid●lium dertibus atte●i . Gratian. d● Conse●rat . D●●● . 2. ca. Ego B●r●ng●● . as Gratian hath registred it in his Decrees , t t Dec●et Gratiani Greg. 13. jussu edit . Par. 1585. aft●rwards published and confirmed by Pope Gregory the thirt●enth : I Berengarius doe firmely professe that I hold , that the body of Christ is in this Sacrament , not onely as a Sacram●nt , but even in truth is s●nsibly handled with the Priests hands , and broken and torne with the teeth of the faithfull . Now this was such a forme of an Oath , as that your owne Glosse saith of it , u u Nist sinè intell●ga●●●ròa Berengarij in majo●●●m in●ides ●aeresin quàm ipse hab●it , & ideò omnia ●e●eras ad species i●sas , G●o●●● apud Gr●tian . D●c●e● . 3 part . de Conse . D●●t ● . ca. Ego B●reng . that Vnlesse it be warily understood , on● may fall into a greater heresie than Bereng●r did . And yet this co●poral eating of Christs fl●sh , with the Capernaits in Saints Iobus sixth Chapter● and this tearing his body with the Communicants teeth , must be understood literally ; inasmuch as the words were purposely set downe for a formall Recantation : and Bellarmine confesseth , that x x Nu●●e ●unt exac●iores formul● loquendi , in 〈…〉 , quàm ●ae 〈◊〉 ●●●nturij qui 〈◊〉 a●jurant . Bellar. li. 〈◊〉 nag . c● . 21. § 〈◊〉 . There are no formes of speech more exact and proper in phrase , concerning the matter of Faith , than such as are us●d by th●m that abjure heresie . Againe , what though B●renger upon the Clergies importunity , through humane frailty , were constrained , For feare of death ( as an Historian saith

B●r●●ga●us ipse prae 〈…〉 mortis lib●os à 〈…〉 ignem proj●●it . ●●pyr . M●ss●n . An●al . ● 235.236 .

〈◊〉 Sco●● liber d● 〈…〉 est 〈…〉 Con●il . ve●c●l●●●se apud ●innium ●o. 3.

) to subscribe● and to burn● both his owne booke , and Scotus his treatise of the Eucharist , which had led him into that opinion ? yet he might still be of the same judgement he was on before . And though he Recanted , yet he●ein he did no more than Saint Pet●r ( whose successour the Pope pretends himselfe to be ) in denying his Mast●r ; no more , than Queene Mary , who being terrified with her Fa●hers displeasu●e , wrote him a letter with her own● hand , in which for ever she renounceth the Pop●s authoritie here in England . And though hee was driven for the time to retract , yet upon his comming home , hee returned to his former Ten●t ; and as one saith who lived about the same time , z z Ad vomi●●● 〈…〉 no● 〈…〉 . Nam in 〈…〉 . ●ert . Constantiens . Presb. ad ann. 1083. in Append. ad Herman . Chron. p. 352. Nec tamen post●à dimisit , af●er that he never changed his opinion . In a word , ●hough Berenger himselfe were somewhat wavering , yet were his Schollers constant ; insomuch that Malmsburiensis a bitter enemy of theirs , saith , that a a Be●engarius planè quāvi● ipse sententiam correxerit ; omnes tamen , quos ex totis terris depravaverat , convertere nequivit . Malmesbur . de gest . Anglor . lib. 3. pag. 114. Though Berenger retracted , yet they could never reclaime all those , whom he in divers countreyes had drawne away . And no marvaile , since they leaned not on the weake reede of mans authoritie , but on Gods word which abideth for ever .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Anselmus Laudunensis in his Interlineall Glosse on the Bible , b b Anselm . Laudun . u●riusque Testamenti scriptura● glosà Interlineali et Marginali ex Patrum scriptis explanavit . Tri●hem . de Scriptor . Eccles. Composed out of the Fathers writings , c c Glossa Inter●in . in Deut. cap. 4. expounds that text of Deuteronomy , Formam non vidistis , ye saw no manner of similitude , [ Deut. 4.15 . ] in this sort ; Ne scilicet volens imitari sculpendo faceres Idolum tibi , lest that willing to resemble that similitude by engraving thou shouldst set up an Idol to thy selfe . In the former times , d d Respondeo magnam quidem esse qua●tionē ; utr●m , vel quatenùs , vel quomodè ea qu●e circ● nos aguntur noverint spiritus mortuorum . Aug. in Psa. 108. ●n●●rat . 1 it was a great question , Whether at all , or how farre , or after what manner the Spirits of the dead did know the things that concerned us here ; and cons●quently whether they pray for us onely e e Et tam●n generalitèr orantibus pro indigenti● supplican●tum A●gust . de c●●a pro mo●t . cap. 16. in generall ; and for the particulars , God answereth us according to our severall necessities , where , when , and after what maner he pleaseth . Anselmus Laudunensis Interlineall Glosse upon that text ; Abraham is ignorant of us , and Irael knoweth us not ; ( Esay . 63.16 . ) note●h that Augustine saith , that f f Augustinus dicit ; qui● mortui nesciunt , eti● sancti quid agant vivi , etiam eorum silij . Glossa Interlin . in Es●iae . 63. The dead , though Saints in heaven , doe not know what the living doe , no not though they bee their owne children , of whom in all probability they have a more speciall care . And indeed Saint Austine in his booke Of the care for the dead , makes this inference upon that place of Scripture ; that g g Si tanti Patriarchae quid ergà populum ex his pro●r●atū ageretur , ignorav●runt ; quomodo mortu● vivorū●●bus atque actibus cognos●●ndis adjuvandisque misc●ntur . Au● . ibid. c. 13. If so great Patriarks , as was Abraham knewe not what befell the people that came of them ; it was no way likely that the dead doe entermeddle with the affaires of the living , either to know them , or to further them ; and Theophylact gives some reason hereof , sayi●g , h h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theophyl . in 1. ●p. ad Th●ss cap. 3. M S● Cir. in Arc●ivis Biblieth . 〈◊〉 O●on . Therefore it may be said , that the Saints , both those that lived before , and sin●● Christs time , doe not know all things , and that this is done , that neither the Saints themselves should bee too highly conceited , nor others esteeme them above that which is meete . And whereas the Romanists repose such confid●nce in the interc●ssion of Saints , that they looke to receive farre greater benefit by th●m , than by their owne prayers ; Theophylact ( tracing Saint i i Se● the ●i●th Age , Of prayer to Saints . Chrysostome in this very point , ) me●ts with this their conc●it ; Obs●rve ( saith he k k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Theophyl in Math. cap 15. ) that although the Saints doe pray for us , as the Apostles did still for her , ( to wit , the woman of Canaan , ) yet we praying for our selves doe prevaile much more .

I will close up this point with the testimonie of one of our kings of England , William the second . It appeareth by writers , saith l l Holinshead . Hist. ad ann 1100. pag. 27. Holinshead out of Eadmerus ) that hee doubted in many poynts of the religion then in credit ; for hee sticked not to protest openly that he beleeved no Saint could pro●it any man in the Lords sight ; and therefore neither would he , nor any that was wise ( as he affirmed ) make intercession , either to Peter , or any other for helpe .

Of Faith and Merit .

Theophylact saith , m m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theophyl . in 3. c. ep ad Gal. M S. in Bibl●och Bo●l Oxon. The Scripture , that is , God himselfe who gave the Law , hath fore-ordained , that wee are justified not by the Law , but by Faith ; and againe n n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Id ibid. the Apostle having showne how that the Law accurseth , but Faith blesseth , he now sheweth ; that Faith onely justifieth , and not the Law . And Anselme saith , o o C●rt●●olà fide Abrah●m ●●rtur Deo plac●●sse . Ans●lm● de excellentiâ B. V●● . Mar. c. 3 p. 241. — 〈◊〉 sol●●ide , et grati● accip●●●● remissionem peccato●um Id in 1 Cor. cap. 1. to . 2. pag. 121. Truely by Faith onely was Abraham said to have pleased God , and this was imputed to him for righteousnesse . Radulphus Ardens saith , and that from the Testimonie of Saint Augustine , p p Test● enim Augustin● , ●olam gratiam suam cororat in nobi● Deus Radulph Ar●ens Do●ini●● 18 post 〈◊〉 . Homil. 1. that God crowneth onely his owne grace in us ; and the same Radulphus , as I finde him alleadged by D●ctor Vsher in his learned Answer to the Iesuits Challenge in Ireland , in the point of Merit , ( for I could not elswhere meete with him ) saith , q q Nihil enim aliud quàm grat●● 〈◊〉 ●oronat i● no●is D●us ; q●i si v●ll●t in 〈◊〉 agerè district● , non ●u●ti●icaretur in consp●ctu 〈…〉 Apos●●lus qui plu●●mnibus l●b ra●it di●it ; ●xistimo quo● n●n u●t ●●digne pa●si 〈…〉 que revelabitur in nobis ; 〈…〉 R●d A●dens Domi●●● . in S●ptu●ge● . Hom 2. God crownes nothing else in us but his owne grace , who if he should d●ale strictly wi●h us , no man living should be justified in his sight ; whereupon the Apostle who laboured more than all , s●ith , I reckon that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to bee comp●red with the glory which shall bee re●●●aled in us : therefore this agreement is nothing else but G●ds voluntarie promise . In like sort , Occumentus a Greeke Scholiast , saith , r r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Oecumen . in Rom. 8.18 . Wee cannot suffer or bring in any thing worthy of the reward that shall be ; and our Anselme Archbishop of Canterbury more fully , saying , s s Si homo mille annis servir●t Deo , etiam ●erv●n●●ssimè ; non meritur ex condigno , dimidiam diem ●ss● in regno coe●o●um Anselm● de mensurat . C●ucis . pag. 188. Colon. 1612. If a man should serve God a thousand yeeres , and that most fervently , he should not deserve of Condignitie , to be halfe a day in the kingdome of heaven . Besides it it evident that this doctrine of free-grace was the received doctrine of the Church , both abroad , and here in England shortly after the Conquest ; and for divers ages after taught and believed both of Priest and people : for there was a certaine forme of Instruction , appointed to be given unto men upon their death-beds , to prepare them thereunto , and to leade them unto Christ . It was put into question and Answer , was commonly to be had in their Libraries , and thought ( for so saith Cardinall Hosius expressely t t Sed ●t Anselmus Archiep . Cantuar. Inter●ogationes quasdam praescripsisse dicitur infirmis in extr●mis cons●●●u●is . Hosi●s in Confessione Pe●icoviensi . cap. 73. ) to be made by Anselme Archbish●p of Canterbury . Amongst the questions propounded to the sicke-man , this was one , u u ●●edis te ●on poss● nisi per mortem ●hristi serva●i ? respon●et infi●mus● eti●m tùm illi dic●tur age ergo d●m superest in te anima in ●ac sola mort● fiduciam 〈◊〉 constitue , in null● 〈◊〉 fidu●iam ha●e ●u●● morti te totum committe , ●a● solà ●e totum ●●t●g● . Si dixerit tibi q●òd meru●sti damnationem , d● ; Domine mort●m 〈◊〉 I●su Christi obtendo in●er me , ●t mala merita mea , ips●●sque m●ritum offero pro me●●to , quod ego debuiss●m hab●re n●c habeo . Id. ibid. Do●st thou believe that thou canst not be saved , but by the death of Christ ? whereunto hee when hee hath made answer affi●matively , he is presently directed to make use thereof in this manner : Goe to therefore , as long as thy soule remaines in thee ; place thy whole confidence in this death on●ly ; have confidence in no other thing ; commit thy selfe wholly to this death , with this alone cover thy selfe wholly . If he say unto thee that thou hast deserved damnation● say , Lord I set the death of our Lord Iesus Christ , betwixt m● & my bad merits ; and I offer his merit in s●eed of the merit which I ought to have , but yet have not . Here was a Cordiall for a sick-soule in extr●mis , more soveraign than their extreme unction , or Holy-water-sprinkle ; than any Ind●lgences , Re●●kques , or Images , yet their quesy stomacks cannot now digest this Catholicon : but have called S. Anselms visitation i●to the Spanish inquisition ; and there by their expurgatorie Index , set out by Cardinall Quiroga , have commanded these Interrogatories to b● blotted out : x x Ex libro qui ins●●ibitur Ordo Baptizand● cùm modo visitandi impr●sso Vene●ijs anno 1575 ; è ●olio 34. pau●o post m●dium ; Deleant●● illa verba : Credis quod D. noster ●esus Christus pro nost●a salute mortuus sit● et quòd ●x p●oprijs meri●is , vel al●o modo null possit salvari , nisi merito p●ss●onis ejus ? Ind. Expurgat . per Quirog . Mad●it . 1584. Dost thou believe to come to glory , not by thine owne merits , but by the v●rtue and merit of the passion of our Lord Iesus Christ ? and , Dost thou believe that our Lord Iesus Christ did dye for our salvation ; and that none can be saved by his owne merits , or by any other meanes , but by the merit of his passion ? whereby wee may observe ( saith our learned and laborious Bishop y y Bishop Vsher● Answer to the Iesuite . Title of Merits . pa. 569. Vsher ) how late it is since our Romanists in this maine and most substantiall poynt ( which is the very foundation of all our Comfort ) have most shamefully departed from the Faith of their fore-fathers .

THE TWELFTH CENTVRIE , from the yeere one thousand one hundred , to one thousand two hundred .
PAPIST .

YOu sayd that Satan was loosed in the former ages , was he bound in this ?

PROTESTANT .

In this age he was mainely curbed by the professors commonly called Waldenses . There was also in England in the time of Henry the first , ( for his knowledge surnamed Beau-clerke , or fine scholler ) great contention touching investitures , or the collation of Bishoprickes . When Thurstan elect Archbishop of Yorke , received his consecration from the Pope , a a Turstanus à Papa consecratur , quod ut Regi Anglorum innotuit , omnem ci locum su●e dominationi● interdixit . Math. Paris . ad an. 1119. in Histor. majore . the King understanding thereof , forbad him to come within his Kingdomes .

This contention betweene the Crowne and the Mitre was ho●ly pursued betweene King Henry the second , and Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury ; it was partly occasioned b b Huic controversiae praestitit ●ccasionem Philip. de Broc . Cano●●cu● Bedford , qui tractus in causam propter Homici●ium , in R●gis Iusticiarium verbum protulit contumeliosum . id . ibid. in Henr. 2 a● An 1164. by one Philip de Broc Canon of Bedford , who being questioned for a murder , he used some reproachfull speeches to the Kings Iustices , for which he was censured : and I finde , that in these dayes ( as the Monke of N●wborrough who then lived , saith c c ● Iu●icibus intim●tum ●st , quod multa contrà disciplinam publicam , scilic●● furt● , rapinae , homicidia à Clericis s●epius committerentur , ad quos scilicet Laicae non posset Iurisdictionis vigor extendi . Gul Nubrigens . ●ib . 2. Cap. 16. p. 137. ) the abuses of Church men were growne to a great height , insomuch as the Iudges complayned in the Kings presence , that there were many robberies and rapes , and murthers , to the number of an hundred committed within the Realme , by Ecclesiasticall persons ( upon presumption of exemption from the censure of the lawes . )

Herewith the King was so highly displeased , that he required that Iustice should be ministred alike unto all sine delectu , saith Novoburgensis Rege , ma●efactore●● si●e d●l●ctu exterminari jub●●ti . Gul. Nov●burg . quo supra . , and Roger Hoveden saith , Rex v●lebat Presbiteros , & alios ecclesie R●●●●res si c●●pre●e●si fu●ssent in la●r● cia●o , vel murdra , vel felo●id , vel in hi●● similibu , d●ce●e ad Secularia examina● & pu●ire , sicu● & La●cum . contr● quod Arch●episcop●● du●h●t &c. Rog Houeden . Annal. part . po●ter . & Nubrig . ad an. 1164. the Kings pleasure was that such of the Cleargie as were taken in any murther , robberie , or felonie , should be tryed and adjudged in his temporall Courts , as Lay-men were ; but the Archbishop would have the Cleargie ( so off●nding ) tryed onely in the spirituall Courts , and by men of their owne coate ; who , if they were convict , should at first onely be deprived of their benefices , but if they should againe be guilty of the like , they should be adjudged at the Kings pleasure .

But the King stood upon his Leges Avitae , his Grandfathers lawes and customes ; which were indeed the auncient lawes of this realme , not first enacted by the Conqueror , but onely confirmed by him , and received from his predecessors , Edgar the peaceable , and Alfred the learned Prince , and accordingly the King in a great assembly at Clarendon , Ap●d Clarend●● facta est Recognitio consuetudinum & libertatum antecess●●um s●orum , Regis Hen●ici ●vi sui . Math. Paris . ad an 1164. confirmed the foresaid lawes of his Grandfather , and enacted : that none should appeale to the Sea of Rome , for any cause whatsoever , without the Kings License .

That it should not be lawfull for any Archbishop or Bishop to depart the Realme , and repaire to the Pope , upon his summons , without the Kings license .

That Clerkes criminous , should be tryed before secular Iudges .

By this we finde two maine branches , of Papal Iurisdiction , Bellarm. de Romano Pontifice lib. 2. cap. 21. to wit , Appeales , and the exemption of Clergie men from being tryed in causes criminall , before Christian Magistrates , strongly opposed by the King , and the State .

PA● .

Name your men for this age ?

PROT.

There were divers worthies who ●lourished in this age , namely , Hugo de Sancto victore , a second Augustine ( as Trithemius calleth h h V●●●t alter Augustin●s . Trithem , de Script . ●celes . him ) Zacharias Chrysopolitanus , Saint Bernard Abbot of Clarevaux ; Robert Abbot of Duits in Germany , usually called Rupertus Tuitiensis : Peter Abbot of Clugni , usually called Petrus Cluniacensis . ●oachim Abbot of Courace , of the order of the Cistertians , a man very famous in this age , and thought to have had a propheticall spirit i i Scio autem & propheti● d●no d●●atum fuisse passu● per●rebuisse . Possevin . in Apparatu . to. 1 pag. 807. , Petrus Blesensis , Peter of Bloix , Archdeacon of Bath , and Chancellour of Canterbury , a man for his pleasant wit and learning in great favour with k k Propter ●●uditionem & vita honestatem ap●d principes & episcopos in ●●ecio habitus . Tri●hem . the Princes , and Prelates of his time ; and of inward acquaintance with Iohn of Salisbury , Bishop of Chartres .

Now also the Schoolemen began to arise , of whom Peter Lombard , Master of the Sentences , was the first , who was afterward made Bishop of Paris ; Aventine saith l l Petrus Lombardus 5. Sanctae philosophiae verit●●tem , fontemque purissimum caeno quaestionum , rivulis opinionum conturbav●● . Aventi● . Annal. lib. 6. , he hath heard of his Masters , Iames Faber of Estaples , and Iodocus Clichtoveus , above a thousand times , that this Lumbard had troubled the pure fountaine of Divinity , with muddy questions , and whole rivers of opinions : and this ( saith he ) experience doth sufficiently teach us , if we be not wilfully blinde . And yet some of their distinctions , being purged from barbarisme , and cleerely applyed to the point in question , may be of good use : especially , when as according to the proverbe , we can eate the Dates , and cast out their stones , and herein Zanchius and Iunius were excellent . It is reported m m A qu●bus●●am praedicatur in populis hos tr●s fuisse german●s ex adulteri●●ato● — de hoc tamen doleas , quod non potes dolere , author vitae Gratiani in fine operum ejus . that Lumbard , Gratian , and Comestor , ( three pillers of Poperie , Gratian for the Cannon law , Comestor for the history of the Church , and Lumbard for Schoole-divinity ) were three bastards , borne of one woman , who in her sickenesse comming to confession could not be drawne to be sorry for this her incontinuencie , but thought shee had done well in bearing those great lights of the Church ; whereunto her confessour replyed , that , that was not hers , but Gods gift they proved such great scholler ; however , she was to be sorry for her fault , and be heartily sorry for this , that she could not sorrow and lament as she should . One of these brothers was called Comestor n n

Cog●omento Comestor , quod Script●ra●um aut●o●t●t●s in suis op●s●ulis ●r●o●ius allegando , quasi ●● v●n●●em memo●ie man●u●iri● . T●ithem . de Sc●iptor . Eccles●●● .

P●●us ●r●w quem P●tia●● g●● , 〈◊〉 Come●●or , Nunc 〈◊〉 —

as it were booke-eater , because he was such a Helluo librorum , a devourer of bookes , as if booke learning had beene his ordinary food , and repast : he had the Bible so perfectly by heart , as though he had swallowed it .

Now what opinion was held of the Papacie , may be seene by the testimonies of such of their owne , as were famous in this age . Iohannes Sarisburiensis , had a conference with Pope Adrian the fourth , called Nicholas Breake-speare , an English man , which himselfe hath l●ft us in writing . I remember ( saith he Si●●t ●nim diceb●tur ● 〈◊〉 Roma●● Ecc●●si● , 〈…〉 M. 15. 〈…〉 Colon. 1622. ) I we●t ●nto Apulia to visit Pope Adrian the fourth , who admitted me into great familiarity , and inquired of me , what opinion men had of him , and of the Roman Church ; I plainely layd open unto him the evill words I had heard in d●vers Provinces , for thus it is sayd ; The Church of Rome , whic● is mother of all Churches , behaveth her selfe towards others , not as a mother , but as a stepdame : The Pope ( saith he ) laughed at it , and thanked me for my liberty of speech . The same Iohn of Sarisbury saith 〈…〉 p. 4●4 . , that th●y wholy apply themselves unto wickednes , that they may seeme Concilium vanitatis , a Councell of vanity , the wicked Synagogue of the Gentiles , ecclesia malignantium , the Church of the envious , and evill doers . Peter of Bloyes , describeth unto us , in the person of an Officiall , the fashion and manner of the Church of Rome . For as much ( saith he Pr●p●●●●e 〈…〉 & de medio Babylonis 〈…〉 Epist , 25. p. 52. ) as I love thee in the Bowels of Iesus Christ , I thought good to exhort thee with wholesome admonitions , that thou in time depart from Vr of the Chaldees , & from the midst of Babylon , and leave the mysterie of this most damnable stewardship .

Richard the first , King of England , and Philip the second of France , being on their voyage to Ierusalem , and comming into Sicilie , and there hearing of Abbot Ioachim ( who was thought to have the gift of Prophe●ie ) they desired to know of him what successe they should have in this their expedition : the Abbot ( saith Paulus Aemilius ) r r I●u●os eos , sed par●● profectures respondit — nimis verus vates Ioachimus extitit . Paul . A●myl . in Philip. 2. lib. 6. p. 175. answered , they should not then recover it : and therein hee proved too true a Prophet : besides this they heard him expound the vision of Saint Iohn in the Apocalypse , touching the Churches afflictions , and Antichrist who ( as he said s s Explicans ( Ioachim ) haec verba Apocalyp . unus illorum nondum venit , scilicet Antichristus , de isto Antichristo dicit idem Ioachim ; quod jam na●us ●st in c●vitate Romaná & in sede Apostolica sublim●●itur . Roger Ho●ed Annal. part . poster . in Rich. 1. p. 681. ) was then borne , and in the Cittie of Rome , and should be advanced in the Sea Apostolicke , of whom the Apostle sayd , Hee should extoll himselfe above all that is called God : and that the seaven Crownes , were the Kings of the earth , that obeyed him ; but in the end , the Lord should consume him with the spirit of his mouth .

I know indeed that Parsons saith , t t Three conversions of England . part. 1. chapt. 10. nu. 22. the Pope censured him for certaine fond Prophecies , as also some errours about the Trinity . Extravag . de Trinit . But others * * Martin Luther . have made his just Apologie and cleered him from that imputation . Besides , all is not Gospell that is set downe in the Popes Decretalls , or Extravagants , no not in their owne account . With this of the Prophet Ioachim , agreeth that of the Prophetesse Saint Hildegard , foretelling the utter extinguishing of Religion amongst them of the Romish order . The Romane Empire ( saith this Prophecie u u Hildegardis Prophetia exta● apud Albert. Staden sem post ann. 1149. a pag. 169. ad 178. as is witnessed by Doctor Crakanthorpe in his treatise of the Popes tempo●all Monarchie . ) shall decay , and those Princes who did cleave unto it , shall separate themselves from it , and be no longer subject to it : this Empire ( in the West ) thus decaying without hope of repayring , the Miter of the Apostolicke honour shall also perish , x x Tunc Insula Apostolici honoris dividetur , quia nulla religio in Apostolico ordine inve●ietur . Hildegard . in C●tal , test . ver●● . lib. 15. because neither Princes , nor other shall find ullam religionem , any religion in the Apostolike order , that is , in the Popes ; therefore they shal take away the honour of the Pope ; who shal scarc●●●ve Rome & a few bordering places , under his Miter . All worldly Princes , ( saith the same Nunne y y The prophecy of Hildegard the Nunne . ) as also the common people , shall fall upon your Priests , which hitherto have abused me ; they shall take away your substance and riches , the holy Church is polluted by them .

Now also lived Peter Bruis , and his disciple Henry a monke of Tholouse : who for divers yeares together preached the word of God about Tholouse , and in the end , ●eter was taken & z z Secte autem illius origi●●● p●ul● alt●us ●epetam ; P●t●●● cognoment●●●●sus , 〈…〉 Co●●●icorpus non e●●e , preces ad Deum pro 〈…〉 ●ocu●sset 〈◊〉 atque ig●e ●r●matus 〈…〉 Annal. Franc. in Philippo A●●●usto . p. 268. burned . Papirius Massonius deriveth the pedegree of the Waldenses from these two : he saith further that they preached against transubstantiation , or the carnall presence : the adoration of the crosse , as also against praying for the dead , and other tenets of the Roman Church : Saint Bernard saith , a a 〈…〉 bapti●amus infantes , quod ●●●mus ●●● mortuis , quod sanc●●●um 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bernard . in Cant ●●●m . 6● . they denyed purgatory , and invocation of Saints : and the same Bernard more credulous than reason required , reproveth them , that like the Manichees they condemned the use of matrimony , and of flesh , and denyed also baptisme to infants : but especially b b Bern. epist. 24● . against Henry he objecteth the keeping of a Concubine , and playing at dice ,

It is great pitty that their owne bookes are made away , so that we are constrained to picke out their life and doctrine from the writings of their professed adversaries , whose report may justly be suspected : for even in like manner we reade in Tertullian , c c 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 Apologet. c●p . 7 that monstrous opinions and crimes were imputed to the first Christians . And yet Bernard in the meane time saith d d 〈◊〉 sunt ●abitas ●● 〈◊〉 , qui boni videri , non esse ; ●●li non videre , sed esse volunt . Bern. in Cant. serm. 66. they are sheepe in habit , and these are they that would seeme good , and yet are not ; wicked , and yet would not seeme so . It must needs be then , that their outward conversation was good : it is also confessed e e Non modò patientes sed & 〈◊〉 , ut videbatur duceren●r ●d mortem . id . ibid. , that their disciples went cheerefully to the fire , and constantly suffered al extreamities for the doctrin of their faith ; now how could this agree with a dissolute life and doctrine ?

Petrus Cluniacensis ( a bitter adversary of theirs ) having charged f f Petr. Clumacens . lib. 1. epist. 1. & 2. them with divers errors , seemeth to have perceived that he had done them wrong , for he addeth these words : g g Sed quia eum ita sentire vel praedicare nondum mihi plenè fides facta est , disser● r●spensionem ; quousque & horum qu●e d●cuntur indubi●m habeam certitudinem . id . epist. 1. But because I am not yet fully assured that they thinke and preach so , I will deferre my answere untill I have undoubted certainty of that they say . They were favoured both of Clergie and Laietie , and followed with such multitudes , that the Temples ( saith Bernard h h Basilicae sine plebibus , pleb●s sine Sacerdote , Sacerdotes sine debitâ reverentià sunt . Bern. in ep. 240. ) remained without people , the people without Priests , and Priests without due reverence ; yea Saint Bernard himselfe was glad to write to Hildefonsus Earle of Saint Giles , i i Bernardi Epistola 24● . ad Hildefons . Comit. S. Aegidij . ( in whose territories they preached ) to desire the Earle that he would no longer protect them : k k Fef●llisse priores , errare posteros . id . ibid. the argument brought against these professors , was the same with that which is used at this day : Have our Fathers then erred so long a time ? are so many men deceived ? have these onely the truth ? And so I come to speake of the Waldenses .

PAP .

What say you to these Waldenses ? were they men of a good life , and sound doctrine ? had they any visible congregations ? had they any lawfull ordination and succession ? were they of any long standing , and continuance ? and if they had ; can you shew that they agreed with you in point of faith and Religion ?

PROT.

The Waldenses began to shew themselves about the yeere 1160 , saith Gretser the Iesuite , l l Circa annum Domini 1160 ortus ●st Petrus Waldus . Iacob . Gr●tser . Prolegom . in script . edit . contr. Waldenses . their adversaries gave them sundry names ; sometimes from the place of their aboade they were called , Pauperes de Lugduno , poore men of Lions a Cittie in France ; sometime Albigenses from the Cittie and Country of Albi ; and usually Waldenses , of their principall teacher , Petrus Waldus .

This Waldus was a rich Merchant , and Citizen of Lyons in France , who seeing one fall downe dead in the streete , made so good use of this spectacle of mans frailety , as that he forthwith began to repent , and change his former course of life ; giving almes to the poore : and betaking him to the study of the Scripture , he profited so well therein ; that hee translated divers parts thereof out of Latine into the French tongue , and taught m m Cun. a●●em esset aliquantuluns ●●tera●●s , Novi Testame●ts t●xtum docuit cos vulgariter . Rain●rius contr. H●r●t . cap. 5. the same in the Mother tongue , to the people that frequently resorted to him .

This doing displeased the Romish Prelates , who were like the dog under the manger , that can neither himself eate the hay , nor yet will let the horse eate it ; so that they raised persecution against Waldus and his followers ; and this persecution was the occasion to spread their doctrine farther abroade , not onely over France , but almost over all the parts of Europe .

Now what the Waldenses were , let one of their Inquisitours speake : Rainerius ( whose booke Gretser the Iesuite lately set out among other writers against the Waldenses ) saith ; quam●co●●starum ●co●●starum : & hoc 〈◊〉 de causis , p●ima est qui● e●t Di●tur●ior , aliqui e●●●m dicunt , quod d●●auit à ●●mpore Syluestri ; aliqui à t●mpore Apostol●rum . Se●●●ula , quiaest G●neralior , ●●re enim nulla est terra , i● qua haec secta non sit . Ter●ia , quia ●um omnes aliae secte imman●ate blasphemta●um in Deum , audientib●●●●●rorem inducunt , h●c magnam ●●bet speciem pretat● , 〈◊〉 coram homnibus iuste 〈◊〉 , & bene omnia de 〈◊〉 cred●nt , & omnes 〈◊〉 qui in Symbolo con●●●●tor ; solu●mo●o Roma●●● Eccles●● blasphemant & ●l●rum , cui mult● t●d● 〈◊〉 ●acili● est ad 〈◊〉 . Rame● . contr. 〈◊〉 . c. 4. Amongst all Sects , which are or have formerly beene , none is more pernicious to the Church than that of the Leonists . First , because it continued longer than any other , for some say it hath lasted ever since Pope Silvester ; others say , ever since the Apostles . Secondly , because no Sect is more generall all than this , for there is scarce any Country , in which it is not found . Thirdly , whereas other Sects deterre men with their horrible blasphemies , this Sect of the Leonists , maketh a great shew of godlinesse , because they live righteously before men , and b●leeve all things rightly touching ●od , and concerning all other Articles of the Creed : onely they blaspheme the Roman Church and Clergie , in which thing the Laitie is forward to give credit unto them .

PAP .

Parsons the Iesuite , Pars●ns three Conve●sions part 2. chap. 10 , § 26 , 27 , ●nd ibid. the third part . chap. 3 , numb . 12. and others charge the Waldenses with divers errours and enormities ; so that howsoever in some points they agreed with the Protestants , yet they mainely differ'd from them in other ; so that they cannot both belong to one and the same Church ?

PROT.

The learned on our sides p p

D. Iacob . Vesserius de Christian. eccl●s . succes●ions & statu . cap. 6. § 20. ad finem .

The History of the Waldenses , booke 1 chap. 4.

Master Cade● Iustification of the Church of England . lib. 2. cap. 1. sect. 3. § 4.

The first Article●

have notably cleered the Waldenses from such foule imputations .

The first Article Objected .

Parsons saith , they held that when the flesh doth burne , that all conjunction with man or woman is lawfull without destinction . The three Conversions , the 3 part . chap. 3 , nu. 12.

Answere .

Indeed many have borne false witnesse against them , but their witnesse doe not agree together q q Marke 14.56 . .

I know this is objected by Parsons and others ; and yet Reinerius who was one of their Inquisitors , said of them ( as is already alleaged ) that they made a great shew of Godlines and lived righteously before men , and beleeved all things rightly touching God , and concerning all other Articles of the Creed . Againe , Casti sunt Leonistae ; the Leonist's liue chastly : and againe , Quae libet naturâ turpia devitant : They avoyd whatsoever is naturally dishonest .

Claudius Seisselius Archbishop of Turin , a man in great credit under Lewes the twelfth , King of France ; although he had written a booke expresly against the Waldenses , yet he thus farre cleereth them saying ; r r No●nihil etiam ad Valdensium con●ir●andam tolerandamque sectam consert , quod praeter haec ( quae contrà fidem r●ligionemque nostram assumu●t , in reliquis ●erme puriorem quam caeteri Christiani vitam agunt ; non enim ni●i coacti iurant , ●aroque nomen Dei in vanum pros●runt , promissaque sua bon●fide imp●ent Claud. Seissel advers. sectam Valdens . pag 9. that it makes much for the confirmation and toleration of that prof●ssion , that ( setting aside differences in point of Faith ) in other things they welnigh leade a more godly life than other Christians ; for they sweare not unlesse they he constrayned , they seldome take the name of the Lord in vaine , and they are very carefull to keepe their promise . When some of the Cardinalls , and Prelates accused the remainders of the Waldenses in Merindol and Cabriers , that they were Heretickes , sorcerers , and incestuous persons , and thereupon mooved that good King Lewis the twelfth to roote them out : the Waldenses having notice hereof , sent their Deputies to his Majesty to declare unto him their innocencie ; whereupon the Prelates were instant upon the King , not to give such Heretikes any accesse or audience : s s T●m Rex ; ●tiamsi , inquit , 〈◊〉 Turc●m aut d●abolum bell●m suscipiendum esset , eoc tamen p●ius a●dire vell●m Wese●be●ij oratio de ●aldens . pag. 418. ●xtat in Ioach. Ca●●r●●ij Historie narratione de Frat●●●● ort●odexo●●m ecclesijs in Bohemi● &c. but the King answered , that if he were to make warre against the Turke , he would first of all heare him : whereupon the King sent master Adam Fume his Master of Requests , and one Doctor Parvi his confessor , to search and inquire both into their life and religion : the Commissioners accordingly visited those places , and upon their returne related to the King what they had found , namely : that t t 〈◊〉 ad Regem re●erunt , ill● i● locis homines baptizari . Articulos fidei & Decalogum doceri . Dominicos d●● religiose coli , Dei ver bum exponi , venes●i● & s●upra apud ●os rulla esse . Hic au●itis Rex 〈◊〉 ●●urando addito : me , inquit , & caetero populo me● Cat●olico m●●●ores 〈◊〉 viri sunt . 〈◊〉 . in orat . de Valdens . ap●d Ioach. Camerar . pag. 419. Infants were baptized , the Articles of faith were taught , the Lords Prayer , the ten Commandements , the Lords day observed , the Word of God Preached , and no shew of wickednesse or fornication to be perceived amongst them , u u C●terum se in ipsorum templis , neque Imagines , n●que or●●m●nt● 〈◊〉 ulla 〈◊〉 . ibid. onely they found not any Images in their Churches , nor any ornaments belonging to the Masse .

The King hearing this report of the Commissioners , sayd ( and he bound it with an oath ) that they were better men than he , or his people ; better than himselfe , and the rest of his subjects .

And thus we have cleared the Waldenses from Parsons his first imputation : a foule slander indeed , but yet such as we finde x x Tertulli●n in Apologet. cap. 7. and 〈◊〉 his wi●ked Or●●ion in Minutius Felix hi● Octavius . was cast upon the auncient Christians , as well as upon them : and most unjustly and untruely upon both of them .

Object .

The 2 and 3 Articles objected . They held , that it was not lawfull for Christians to sweare at all , for any cause whatsoever , because it is written , Doe not sweare , Matthew 5. Iames 5. They held also that the magistrate ought not to condemne any to death , because it is written , Iudge not , Matthew chap. 7. Luke chap. 6. Parsons , loco citato .

Answere .

Claudius Seissel ( as before is alleadged ) saith indeed that they doe not sweare unlesse they be constrained ; belike then being lawfully called they refuse not to sweare in Iudgement : in triviall matters they would not sweare rashly , according whereunto they alleadged our Saviours precept ; besides , they affirme , y y In their booke entituled , the Spirituall Almanacke , in the third C●mment . cited by the History of the W●ldens●s , booke 1. chap 4. that there are lawfull oathes , tending to the honour of God , and their Neighbours good , and they alleadge that place in the sixth to the Hebrewes , 16. that an oath for confirmation to them is an end of all strife .

The other cavill arose upon their complaining , that the magistrates delivered them to death , without any other knowledge of the cause , than the bare report of their Inquisitors , Priests , and Friers , who were parties , and their professed enemies , otherwise the Waldensian doctrine was , z z In their booke entituled , the Light of the treasure of faith fol. 214. cited ibid. that they were not to suffer the Malefactour to live .

Object .

They hold that the Apostles Creed is to be contemned , and no account at all to be made of it , and that no other prayer is to be used , but onely the Pater Noster , set downe in Scriptur● . Parsons quò suprà .

Answere .

This is an idle cavill ; for Reinerius hath already told us , that they beleeve all the Articles contained in the Creed : besides , in their bookes they have very good and Catholike expositions of the Creed . Doe these men then slight the Creed ? They doe not indeed hold the Creede to be a prayer , no more doe they that of the Angels Haile to Mary they hold it to be a salutation , and no direct invocation , as Claudius Seissel saith a a Salutationem Angelicam ad Dei genitricem fidelibus frequent●ndam ●on c●nse●t , quasi i●a orationis forma● non habeat , sed salutationis● Claud. Seissel . c. Sectam . Vald. pag. 54. it followes not hence , because they hold not the Creede , nor the Angelicall Salutation to be any direct prayer , that therefore they neglect the Creede . The other allegation is as idle , for their owne writers Reyner , and others record divers other of their prayers , as for grace before meate , this : He that blessed the five Barly loaves , and two Fishes , in the Desert to his Disciples , blesse this table unto us ; and after meate , thus : God which hath given us corporall food , give us also spirituall life .

Object .

They held , that the power of consecrating the body of Christ , and of hearing confessions was left by Christ , not onely to priests , but also to lay-men if they be just . Parsons ibid.

Answere .

The first part of this Article they held not : but rather the contrary , that neither Priests nor Laikes could consecrate the body of Christ : for Reinerius saith ; b b Reinerius in Su●●a de Catharis & Leonistis . They doe not beleeve the Sacrament to be the true body and blood of Christ , but the bread consecrated is called in a certaine figure the body of Christ , as it is sayd , the Rocke was Christ , and the like . For the second , they sayd truely , and we hold , that we are to confesse our faults one to another , Iames 5 , 16. yea though they be Lay-people , so they be godly and discreet , and able to counsaile and comfort us : but especially to the discreet and learned Minister of Gods Word , to receive from him Ghostly comfort , counsaile , and upon our hearty repentance , absolution .

Object .

They held , that no Priests must have any living at all , but must live on almes : and that no Bishops or other dignity is to be admitted in the Clergie , but that all must be equall . Parsons ibid.

Answere .

That their Ministers may not lawfully take and enjoy livings , or that it was sinne so to doe ; they taught not , but were sorry c c So they professe in their Answer : Ad literam Augustini Olmucensis , Anno 1508. et pleni●s in scripto edito 1572. they had not sufficient stayed livings for them , whereby they might have more time to their studies , and greater opportunity to instruct them with necessary doctrine and knowledge● but they were not ashamed of their Ministers that were content to worke with their hands to get their living , as the Apostles had done before them .

So that if they spoke ought that looked that way , it was onely pro hic & nunc , as their case then stood : they were now both pastours and people thrust out of their owne Country , and goods , and glad to live upon others benevolence and collections , which haply made them call them , The poore men of Lions .

Howsoever , they were so farre from liking the course of the begging Friers , or vowing of voluntary poverty , as that they held the order of begging Friers● to be the Divels invention d d Mendicantium Religionem malos D●●mones invenisse . Aeneas Silvius Histor. Bohem. Cap. 35. ; and Monkish vowes to bee vaine , as occasioning foule and fearefull lusts e e Monasticam vitam Ecc●●siae sentinam a● Plutonium esse : vana illius vot● , nec nisi saedis pu●ror●ma●●ribus servi●ntia . Thuan. Histor. Lib. 6. ad An. 1550. p. 513. . If they sayd that all Ministers must be equall , they meant in Orders , but not in Iurisdiction , for they allowed Deacons , Presbyters , and Bishops , as Guido Carmelita observes .

Object .

They held , that Masse is to be sayd once onely every yeare : to wit , upon Maundy Thursday , when the Sacrament was instituted , and the Apostles made Priests . For that Christ sayd , Doe this in remembrance of me ; to wit , ( say they ) that which he did at the time , Luke 22. 1 Cor. 11. Parsons ibid.

Answere .

Parsons pret●nds to bring no Articles but such as all Authours charge the Waldenses withall , and yet brings this , which no Authour imputes to them , but onely Guido Carmelita ; and Alphonsus de Castro wonders Apu●●ull●●m ali●m ex his qui Valdensium errores 〈◊〉 , inveni● u●●am de ha●●e sac●am mentionem . Alphonsus de Castro lib 6. ad● . Haer●se● . tit . de Eucharist . ● Nova●●● . where Guido found it . Aeneas Sylius mentions it not , but contrarily saith , g g A●n . Sylvius Hist. B●h●m . cap. 35. they hold that the Priest may consecrate in any place , and at any time , and minister to them that require it .

Object .

They held , that the words of Consecration must be no other , but onely the Pater Noster , seaven times said over the bread . Parsons ibid.

Answer .

Alponsus de Castro saith . h h Alphons . de castro lib 6. a●u . Ha●r . ● tertia Haer. tit . de ●uchar . It is possible that the Waldenses might have had this fancie , but not probable , for onely Guido Carmelita saith it : but Aeneas Sylvius , a farre more diligent man , and of better jud●ement , mentions it not : neither Antoninus nor Bernard of Lutzenburg , ( though they all pro●essedly reckon up their errors ) but rather they say the contrary : that the Waldenses held , that the Priest might consecrate in every place , and time , and minister to them that desire it : and su●ficere ut verba Sacramentalia tantùm dicat ; that it was sufficient to speake the Sacramentall words onely .

The 10. 〈◊〉 obj●cted . Object .

Prateolus saith i i Du● credebant cum Mani●●●ais principia , Deum viz. bonu● & malum , ●d est Dia●●lum , quem dicebant omnia ●●eare corpora , sicut Deum 〈◊〉 omnes animas● Corporum Resurrectionem nega●●●● . ●ullum in●ernum pu●antes Prateol . l. 1. Ele●ch . Haere● . li● A. Albigens . , that the Albingenses held with the Manichees , that there were two prime beginnings , or Authors of things , that is ; one good God , the Creator of good : and one bad , that is , the Divel , the creator of evill ; and that they denyed the resurrection , and thought there was no Hell .

Answere .

Fryer Reyner their inquisitour saith , they beleeved all the Articles contained in the Creede . And for the other imputation , he that shall but reade the confession of their faith tendred to Ladislaus King of Hungary , and extant in Orthinus Gratius k k Confessio Fratrum Waldensium ad Vladi●●aum Hungariae Regem ●issa● extat in Fa●●iculo re●um exp●tend & ●ugiend p. 85. , will easily cleare them thereof . This cavil is thought to be grounded upon that assertion of the Waldenses , that the Pope had no authoritie over the Kings and Princes of the earth , who depend immediately upon God alone ; and from hence they tooke occasion to call them Manichees , as appointing two prime or cheef originalls & Iurisdictions : and it may seeme to be taken out of the extravagants of Pope Boniface the eight , who subjecting the authority of Emperours , l l Quicunq●e h●i● potesta●● resistit , Dei ordinationi r●●ist●t , ni●i duo ( ●uut Manicheus ) ●i●git esse principi● . De Maj●rit . & obed. Ca●● Vnam Sanctam . saith of his owne , Whosoever resists this power , resists the ordinance of God , unlesse with the Manichee he devise du● principia , two prime originalls of things . Now against this imputation , the Waldenses professe , m m In the book of the Treasure of Faith , the second Article ●●ted by the History of the Waldeuses , booke 1. chap. 4. p. 19. that they beleeve that the holy Trinity hath created all things visible and invisible , and that he is Lord of things celestiall , terrestriall , and infernall , as it is sayd it Saint Iohn , All things were made by him , and without him nothing is made .

Besides it might bee that the Manichees , some of them living amongst the Waldenses , such as spited the Waldenses , by one common terme nick-named them and called them Manich●e●s and Catharists : as sometimes the Donatists , and called n n Or●●s est conflictus de C●tho●ici nomine & Donatist●rum & C●●ili●●ist●rum . Augustin . Bru●●cul . Collation . cum Donatist . cap. 4. Tom. 7. the Christians and Catholikes Caecilianists . By this that hath beene sayd it appeares , that there is not any such oddes betweene the Waldenses and us , as Parsons and Prateolus have given out ; but that for substance of Religion they agree with us ; and accordingly Orthuinus Gratius saith Non multum alicub● dissentit ab i●● q●● vu●go tradun●ur à quibusda● ut ab illi● accepisse videri posi●nt . Or●●uin . Gr●ti●s in Fas●is rerum expetende● & fugiend . de professione Fratrum Waldenstum . of the confession of the Waldensian faith presented to the King of Hungary , that in some points it little differeth from that which is delivered by others ( he meaneth our Protestant pro●essours ) so as they may see me to have received it from them ; and Le Sieur la Popeli nere in his history of France speakes more fully , namely p p Doctrinam suam , o● c● qua● bodie Protestantes ample●●untur parum different●m , non per Gallam sol●m tot●m● sed ●●iam p●●●●nnes penè Europae oras dissem●ârunt . Popliner Hist. Fr●n● . L●b . 1. fol. 7. b. edit. Anno 1581. ; that the Waldenses and Albigenses , about the yeare 1100 and the succeeding times , spread their doctrine ( parum differentem ) litle differing from that which the Protestants now embrace .

Object .

It seemeth you sticke close to the Waldenses , and yet your Iewell casts them off , saying ; q q Iewels Apology . cap. 7 〈◊〉 . 3. they are none of ours ?

Answere .

The passage in B. Iewell is this ; r r B. Iewell ibid. Master Harding saith that Hus , Hierome of Prage , Wickleffe , Almarick , Abailard , the Apostolikes , Petrobrussians , Berengarians , Waldenses , Albingenses , Image-breakes , and such like , ever found fault with the Church in their time .

Whereunto B. Iewell replyeth in these termes : of Abailard , and Almarick , and certaine other your strange names , if they have taught any thing contrary to the truth of God , we have no skill , they are none of ours ; of Iohn Hus , Hierome of Prague , and Berengarus : and other like vertuous learned men , we have no cause to be ashamed : their doctrine standeth still , and increaseth dayly , because it is of God .

And elsewhere he saith , s s 〈◊〉 . ●ap . 2. Divis. 1 As for Iohn Wickleffe , Iohn Husse , Valdo , and the rest , for ought we know , and I beleeve setting malice aside , for ought you know , they were godly men ; their greatest heresie was this : that they complained of the dissolute lives of the Clergie , of worshipping of Images , of the tyrannicall pride of the Pope , of Pardons , pilgrimages , and purgatory , and that they wished a reformation of the Church : we succeede not them , nor beare their names ; we succeede him whose word we professe . By this it appeares what Bishop Iewell thought of Wald● and others : and if he had cast off the Waldenses as none of ours , it might be imputed to this , that he beheld them as their persecutors painted them out with spots of Manicheisme , and other vile errours .

PAP .

If the Waldenses were free from such errours as Parsons , and others have taxed them withall : how came it to passe that such grosse opinions were fathered on them ?

PROT.

You say well , they be fathered on them , even as sometime a light housewife layes her burthen at an honest mans doore : but themselves never begat such strange opinions ; for the Waldenses in their confessions say t t Harum ●riminatio●●● quibus crebrò culpamu● , nihil consci● sumus . Fasci● rerum expetend . et fugiend . p. 85● , That they were nothing at all guilty of those things that were layd to their charge .

That worthy Historian Thuanus reckons up their opinions , and then addeth u u His praecipuis ●● c●rtis e●rum doctrinae capitibus ●li● officta de Conjug●● , resurrectione , animae fl●t● post mortem , & de cibis . Thuan. Hist. sui temporis . Ad an. 1550. l. 6. pag. 513 ; To these certaine and chiefe heads of their doctrine ( alia afficta ) others others were fained and devised , concerning marriage , Resurrection , the state of soules after death , and of meates .

Bernard de Girard , Lord of Haillan , saith ; Et bien qui●'s ●ussent des mauvaises opinions , ●i est●a qu● elles ne suscit●r●●t pastant la haine du P●pe , & des grands Princes , & des E●clesiastiques , c●ntre ●ux , que fut l● libertie du la●gage . Ce ●u●●e principal point qui lesmit e● haine universalle , & qui les charg●● de plus de meschan●e● 〈◊〉 , qu●l● n'en avoient . Bern. de Girard . l● Histoire de France so●bs Philippe 2. Liure 10 p. 511. Although they had some ill opinions , yet they did not so much stirre up the hatred of the Pope and great Princes against them , as their freedome in speech which they used in blaming and reproving the vices , dissolute manners , life , and actions , of Princes , Ecclesiasticall persons , and the Pope himselfe : this was the chiefe thing which drew the hatred of all upon them , this caused many wicked opinions to be devised , and fathered on them , from which they were very free and guiltlesse .

PAP .

You say divers opinions were fained of them , what then were their owne Tenets ?

PROT.

What they taught in particular may be gathered by that which the Hussites in Bohemia , their ●chollers held , for as A●neas Sylvius , afterwards Pope recordeth , the Hussites embraced the opinions of the Waldenses : now their opinions are thus , set downe by An●as Sylvius y y

Romanum Praesulem r●liquis 〈◊〉 parem ●sse . Purgatorium ignem rullum in●em●i : vanum esse ora●e pro mortuis , & avaritiae sacerdotali● inv●nt●m .

Dei & Sanctorum imagines delendas .

Confirm●tion em & extr●mam unctionem inter Ec●lesi ●sacramenta minim● contiuer● .

Suffragia Sanctorii f●ustrà imp●trari , quae 〈◊〉 non possunt .

Auricu●a●em Confessionem ●●ga●●m esse .

〈◊〉 ab Ecclesi● institu●is , nihi inesse mer●●i●

In Canonicis ho●is cantandis discendisque t●mpus 〈◊〉 t●ri .

A●n . Sylv. Hist. Bo●em cap. 35.

one of their backe friends .

They held , other Bishops to be equall with the Bishop of Rome .

That prayers for the dead and Purgatory , were devised by the Priests , for their owne gaine .

That the Images of God and Saints , were to be defaced .

That Confirmation and extreame unction were no Sacraments .

That it is in vaine to pray to the Saints in heaven , since they cannot helpe us .

That Auricular confession was a trifling thing .

That it was not meritorious to keepe the set fasts of the Church , and that such a set number of Canonicall houres in praying were vaine .

That Oyle and Chrisme was not to be used in Baptisme .

These with divers other were the Tenets of the Waldenses .

PAP .

Suppose the Waldenses had fully agreed with you in matter of Religion● yet Waldo was a Lay-man z z Bret●lye● Apol. tract. 2. chap. 2. sect. 3. , and so wanted calling , and could not confere it on others .

PROT.

Why might not a Lay-man by private exhortation , Ruffinus Ecc●es . Hist l. 1. ●●p. 9. perswade others to the Christian faith ? We finde in the Church-story , that a Tyrian Philosopher arriving in India , was slaine by the Barbarians with all his company , except two children which were gone out of the ship , and were learning their lessons under a tree ; these children were brought up by the King , and advanced by him , the one to be his Steward , and the other called Frumentius , became his Secretary . Afterward , the King dying , and leaving his sonne in in his non-age , Frumentius a●●isted the Queene in the government of the Kingdome : whiles Frumentius was in authority , he enquired among the Roman Merchants for Christians , he shewed the Christians all favour , and procured them assemblies for prayer , and the service of God . When the King came to age , they delivered him the Kingdome , and Frumentius went to Alexandria to Athanasius , and told him what was done , desiring him to send some worthy Bishop to those multitudes of Christians : Athanasius thinking Frumentius a fit person , ordained him Bishop , and sent him into India , to convert more soules . Hereby we see , that this Lay-secretary was the first meanes of converting the Barbarians : and why might not Waldus of France , doe the like ?

Besides , though Waldus himselfe were a Lay-man , yet the Waldenses might have Bishops , and Pastors . Mathew Paris saith b b

Albingenses constituerunt sibi Antipapam in finibus Bulgar . Cro●tiae & Dalmati●e , nomine Bartholomaeum ; in quibus partibus error i●●e ●deò inval●it , ut etiam Episcopos , & alios multos regionum illarum ad suam adduxerint pravitatem .

— ipse creat Episc●p●s , & Ecclesias perfide ordi●are co●tendi● . Math. Paris ad●n ●n. 1223.

, the Albingenses were so powerfull in the parts of Bulgaria , Croatia , and Dalmatia , that they also drew Bishops , besides many others of those regions , to their parties ; yea the Popes Legat that was sent in commission against the Albigenses , complaines that they had a Bishop of their owne , called Bartholmew , who cons●crated Churches , and ordained Bishops and Ministers .

PAP .

Waldus and his followers were but simple , c c Valdo , quia Idiota erat , al●q●o● libros in linguam vulgarem sibi feci● transferri● quos lege●● , & non in●ellig●●s , in pestilentissim●s l●psus est error s. Alphons . a Castro de justa Haere● . pun●●ione . l. 3. c. 6. and unlearned men , ( Valdenses fuerunt homines Idiotae , & prorsus ignorantes . Castreul . tit . miraculum . )

PROT.

What then ? God hath chosen the foolish and weake things of the World , to confound the wise , 1 Cor. 1.27 . And we reade in the Church history of a Philosopher , that could not bee overcome by any Arguments , but troubled the councell of Nice , and yet was converted by a simple Bishop . Ruffin . eccles. Hist. li. 1. cap. 3.

Againe , it is untrue that Waldus was utterly unlearned : for Reiner the Inquisitour saith d d C●● esset aliquantulum literatus , Novi Testam●nti text● docuit ●os vulga●iter . Re●er . c. Haeret. cap. 5. ; that Waldus being tollerably learned , taught those that resorted to him , the Text of the New Testament in their mother tongue : and the same Reiner ( who was often present at their examinations ) witnesseth e e Inquisitioni & examination● haereticorum f●eq●●nt●r inter●ui , & computatae sunt Scholae Haereticorum in Dioc●si Pataviensi 40. Id. ibid cap. 3. that they had above forty schooles , and divers Churches ; all within one diocesse ; so that they had the ordinary meanes of knowledge . Yea they were of that abilitie that they had divers conferences and disputations with the Romists , and one famous one at Mount-royall in France , where they encountered Saint Dominick and others , and maintained these positions ; f f

Iac. Vs●er . de Eccles. suc●●●ione & statu . cap. 1● . §● 1.

●istory of the Albigenses l. primo . cap 2.

that the Church of Rome was not the holy Church , nor spouse of Christ , but Babylon the mother of abhomination : that the Masse was not ordained by Christ nor his Apostles , but was an Invention of men . This disputation held for divers dayes , and the Waldenses had the better , had not Saint Dominicks sword proved sharper than his sillogisme , cutting off more men than arguments ; for now ( as Platina saith ) g g Non ●●im disceptationi●us verborum tantum , verum etiam ar●●is opus ●uit . Pla●ina in Innocent. 3. — sed ●um parum câ ratione pro●i●●re ●i●i videretur Domini●●s , domin●●o gladio posito , ferr●um stri●xit . Thuan. ●istor . ad an 1550. the matter was not carried by force of argument , but by force of armes ,

PAP .

Though you shew us the Waldensians agreement with you , their calling , succession and ordination ; yet you are never a whit the neerer , because their number might bee few , and them few scattered and dispersed , so that they had not any visible congregations .

PROT.

Concerning the Waldenses , and the visibility of their assemblies , both in France and elsewhere , the matter is cleere , even by your owne witnesse .

Rainerius saith , ( as is already alleadged ) that of all Sects which either are or have beene , none hath beene mo●● pernicious to the Church ( he meaneth the Church of Rome ) than that of the Leonists . First , for the long continuance thereof ; for some say it hath continued from the time of Silvester , ( who was Bishop of Rome about the yeare of Christ three hundred and sixteene ) others say , from the time of the Apostles . Secondly , for the generality , for there is almost no Country into which this Sect hath not entred : the French historian saith h h Car les Francois , Espagnols , Anglois , Escossois , Italiens , Alemans , Boemiens , Saxons , Polonois , Lithuaniens , & autres peuples l'ont opinastrement defender iusques ●icy . L'histoire de France , Liure 1. p. 7. b. de l' imprimerie pac Abraham H. 1581. , that the Waldenses about the yeare 1100 , and in the succeeding times , spread abroad their doctrine , little differing from that which at this day the Protestants embrace , not onely through all France , but almost through all the Countries of Europe also . For the French , Spanish , English , Scots , Italians , Germans , Bohemians , Saxons , Polonians , and Lituanians , and other Nations have obstinately defended it to this day . Mathew Paris the Monke of Saint Albans hath already told us that they were growne so powerfull in Bulgaria , Croatia , and Dalmatia , that among many others they drew some Bishops to their partie .

And there were such multitudes of them apprehended in France , that History of the Waldenses booke 2. chap. 2. the Archbishops of Aix , Arles , and Narbonne assembled at Avignion ( anno Dom. 1228 ) about the difficulties of the executions of those which the Dominican Fryers had accused , said plainely : there were so many apprehended , that it was not possible to defray the charge of their feeding , nor to finde enough lime and stone to build prisons for them : when they came to wage warre with their enemies , they were so powerfull , that they brought an hundred thousand fighting men into the field Carciter cen●um milli● a●ma●or●● in 〈◊〉 adversus S●mo●●in consti●isse ●er●t . P. Aemil. de gest . Franc. L●b . 6 〈◊〉 feirent tous ensemble ( a ce qu●on dit ) un● arm●e ●● env●on cent mille homme● . N●● . Vi●●●er del'Hist●●● del● Eglile en la●nec 1612. pag. 4●● . ; and were then very likely to have utterly overthrowne Simon Montfort , Generall of the Papall armie , had not the unexpected death of the King of Arragon ( intercepted by ambush ) quite discouraged and dissolued the Albigenses army .

Besides , if the Waldenses had not had any visible assemblies , what needed such councels & consultations , conferences & disputations , inquisitions and examinations , bans and excommunications against them ? They set up the order of Dominican and Franciscan Friers to preach against them ; they leavied forces of Pilgrimes Cruciferi or crossed souldiers , to fight against them ; they published their Croysadoes , promised their pardon of sinnes , and remission of pennance enjoyned , to as many as would take up the badge of the crosse , and weare it on their coate-armour , and goe against the Waldenses , as against Sarracens and Infidels . Now sure had the Waldenses beene but some few , dispersed and meane persons , they needed no such stirre to suppresse them . But we finde , that they used all possible meanes for to quell them ; 〈◊〉 Lact●●● . 3. uni●ers●●e co●tra Cath●ros , q●●s Walden●es & Albigenses 〈◊〉 ap●ell●nt . Binuius in Con●●l ibi● . Pope Inncent the third about the yeere 1180 , called a a solemne Councell at Lateran against them : Caelestine the third in the yeare 1197 confirmed m m Ordo Cru●i●erorum dici●●r confirmatas ● Caelestin●● . A●no 1197. Bellarm in Ch●onol . the order of the Cruciferi , or crossed souldiers , and they were to warre against them . The Monke of Auxerre in France saith , n n ●●ter●s Papae longè lat●que 〈◊〉 peccatorum ●emissione . & pae●it●ntiarum abso 〈…〉 . Chron●● . 〈◊〉 A●t●ssiodor ad ●n. 120● . That the Pope sent his Bulls farre and neere , and granted them pardon of sinnes , and absolution of pennance , to such as should serve in his warres against the Waldenses .

About this time was the holyhouse of Inquisition set up by Pope Innocent the third , and the mastership thereof committed o o Innocent . Epist. Decretal . Lib. 1. pag 56. first to Frier Reiner and Guido , and afterwards to Saint Dominicke and his order . Eymericus hath given certaine directions p p Nic. Eymerici Directorium Inquisitor . cum Scholij● Fr. Peguae . Romae . 1578. to the Inquisitors and Commissioners , and Francis Pegna hath glossed upon them : and there were lately to be seene the severall consultations q q Innocent . Dec●etal . epist. p. 57. Catalog . Testium ve●it . Lib. 15. of the Bishops and Lawyers of France , in what sort they were to proceed against the Waldenses . And the Monk of Newborrow tels us r r Sub Anathemate prohibentur ne qui●●os in domibus vel in terra sua tenere , vel sovere , vel negotiationem cu●cis exercere pr●sumat . Gul. Nouoburg . Hist. Angl. lib. 3. cap. 3. pag 217. & l. 2. cap. 13. pag. 126 , &c. , that when the Waldenses came into England , ( under the name of Catharist's or Publicans ) there was strict charge given , under paine of excommunication , that none should receive , harbour , or keepe them within their houses , liberties , or territories : nor to have any commerce or manner of dealing with them ; and if any of that sect dyed in that state , that upon no termes , they should have any prayer or Christian buriall ; but they saved them a labour of buriall : for Caesarius saith s s Ex quibus quadringenti combus●● sunt in igne ; cateri patibulis appensi . Caesarius Hist. lib 5. cap. 21. that at the taking of La-vail there were foure hundred of them burnt , and the rest hanged ; and the like execution done in divers other places ; and namely at Vaurcastle , where after they had strangled the Governour Aimerius , they stoned to death the Lady Girard , the Popes Legats not sparing ( as Thuanus t t Nec mulieribus abstinuere Pontificij Legati . Thuan . ad An. 1550. lib. 6. pag 515. saith ) any Sexe at all . Now all this they patiently endured , so that as Altissidore saith u u Qui omnes s● mutu●●ohor●antes , ro●um accensum u●tronei sub e●unt . Altissiodorens . pag. 106. a. obst●puerunt videntes . ibid. , the beholders were astonied , to see them goe so cherefully to their death , and withall to exhort one another to abide the fierie tryall .

PAP .

There might be great numbers of the Waldenses , and them of the meaner sort .

PROT.

That is not so ; for Du Haillan saith x x De leur parti estoient le Contes de Tholouse , de Cominge , de Bigorte , et de Carmain , & Mesm●s l● Roy d' Arragon . Bern. de Girard du Haillan . 〈◊〉 10 , that many Noble and worthy men tooke part with them , even to the hazzarding of their lives and estates , namely ; the Earles of Tholouse , of Cominges , of Bigorre , of Carmain , of Foix , as also the King of Arragon : for Remond had marryed Ioane once Queene of Sicilie , sister to Iohn King of England , by whom he had a sonne called also Remond ; & after the decease of Ioane he married Elenor , sister of Peter King of Arragon ; so that he was strong in affinity , and confederacy besides , that he had ( as one saith y y Gul Armo●ican . Philippidos . Lib. 8. teste D. Iac. Vsserio de Eccles. successione & statu . cap. 10. nu. 31. ) as many citties and castles , and townes , as the yeere hath dayes .

By the way we may observe , that considering the neere alliance which was betweene the Earle of Tholouse , and his brother in law the King of England : as also the Earles lands lying so neere to Guienne then in the possession of the Engl●sh ; hence I say we may observe , that this made the way more easie to communicate the doctrine and profession of the Waldenses unto their neighbou●s of the English Nation .

PAP .

You tell us of great troupes of the Waldenses ; and yet they had but bad successe .

PROT.

We must not measure the lawfulnesse of warre by the issue ; nor judge the cause by the event . The eleven Tribes of Israel were appointed by God himselfe to goe and fight against the Benjamites ; the Israelites were moe in number than the Benjamites , and had the better cause ; and yet the Israelites were twice overcome by the Benjamites Iud●●● 20. : so King Lewis of France fighting against the Turke , his army was scattered , and himselfe dyed of the Plague .

●esides , you have little reason to stand on the successe of this warre ; It is true indeed that their chiefe Cittties Tholouse and Avignion were taken , and the King of Arragon was slaine in the Waldensian warre ; but so also was Simon Montfort Generall of the Popes army ; he was slaine , like Abimelech ( Iudges 9 ) with a stone cast out of a sling Simon Comes m●ntis sor●is , a●te portam 〈◊〉 ( Tolosae ) l●pi●● de Peti●rio em●sso , in capite per●●ss●s , sub●●o expiravit . Math. Paris . H●● . ad an . ●●19 . , or engine ; and the same supposed to be ●lung or darted by a woman b b Chassagmon . l. 4. c. 11. cited by the history o● the Albing●●ses , booke 2 Ch 2 . And as for King Lewis he dyed at the siege of Avignion , and ( as Math●w Paris saith c c 〈…〉 interfectis . & in 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 , plus quam 〈…〉 . Math. P●●is 〈◊〉 ad an. 1226. ) sustained great losses by a terrible plague , strong and venemous flyes , and great waters devouring , and drowning his army ; so that there were two and twenty thousand French slaine and drowned during that seige .

Lastly , the Waldenses had no such ill successe ; for though themselves were persecuted , yet their doctrine was thereby communicated to others , and spread abroad throughout the world .

PAP .

You make as if the Pope had dealt ill with the Albingenses ; but they dealt ill with him : for the Earle of Tholouse , or some of his subjects killed the Popes Legat Frier Peter de Casteaneuff : and this was it that stirred up the Pope .

PROT.

This was but a colour of the warre , and an untruth : when the Popes Legat charged the Earle with this fact , his answere was ; d d Hist. of the A●bingens . booke 1. Chap. 3. that he was no way culpable of the Fryers death ; that there were many witnesses of the death of the sayd Monke , slaine at S. Giles , by a certaine Gentleman , whom the said Monke pursued , who presently retired himself to his friends at Be●caire : that this murther was very displeasing to him , and therefore he had done what lay in his power to apprehend him , and to chastise him ; but that he escaped his hands ; that had it beene true which they layd to his charge , and that he had beene guilty of the fact , yet the ordinary courses of justice were to be taken against him , and not to have wracked their anger upon his subjects , that were innocent in this case . In the end he was forced to confesse that he was guilty of the murder , onely because it was committed within his territories : so that he was glad to doe pennance , and that in a strange sort , for the Legat put a stole about his necke ( such as Priests use to weare ) and having his head , feete , and shoulders bare , he led him by the sayd stole , and made him goe nine times about the grave of the deceased Fryer , scourging him with rods ; which the Legat had in his hand , as long as he went about the sayd Sepulcher , the Earle to get himselfe out of the Legats hand , went to Rome , and was there absolved by the Pope : upon his returne , the Legat refused to restore him , but renewed the excommunication against him e e Hi●● . of the Albig . booke 1. Cap. 8. , not as being guilty of the death of the sayd Monke , but because he had not driven the Albigenses out of his Country ; as he was bound by promise . The Earle seeing the Legats dealing , strengthneth himselfe with his Allies and Confederates , and so they fell to open hostility . Lewis the sonne of Philippus Augustus , was signed with the crosse on his military Cassocke , and strongly beseiged Avignion one of the Earles chiefe Citties ; swearing f f Math. Paris ad An. 1226 H●●t . m●●or . , that he would not depart thence , till hee had taken the Towne : but he was glad to goe aside to an● Abby not farre distant , to avoyde the Pestilence , whereon hee shortly after dyed : the Legat the more easily to winne the Cittie , kept secret the Kings death , and despairing to prevaile by force , attempted to doe it by fraud . He cunningly perswaded the Citty to send unto him twelve of their Cittizens to conferre upon some good conditions , giving them his oath for their safe returne , protesting and swearing g g A●●irmans cum ●●ramento , se non ob 〈◊〉 obsi●io●em protraxisse , nisi ut sal●tem qu. creret animarum . Id ibid. , that he prolonged the seige for no other end , but for the good of their soules : but wh●n the gates were opened to receive them so returning , his army rushed in , and t●oke the gate , and finally the Citty , contrary to his oath given . Thus the Cittie of Avignion , which could not be taken in three monethes seige and assault by the power of the King of France , was easily taken by the fraud and perjury of the Popes Legat.

Mathew Paris , the Monke of Saint Albanes , tells us what others thought of these proceedings : it seemed unto many a great wrong ( saith he h h V●debatur enim multis abusi● , ut homi●●m fidel●m Christianum in●estarent , c●● co●staret , multi● precibus persu●si●se Legato , ut veniret ad singulas terrae suae civitates , inquirens à singulis arti●●●et fidei . Id. ibid. ) to trouble a faithfull Christian thus , who earnestly entreated the Legat to examine the faith of his people : and if any Citty held out against the Catholike faith , he would make them give satisfaction ; and be punished as the Church should thinke fit ; and for himselfe he offered , to give an account of his faith ; but ( as Mathew Paris saith i i Pro se autem ipso obtulit , si Legatu● vellet , etiam fidei examen subire . Hae● omnia Legatus contemp ●it● nec potuit Cones Catholicus gratiam inve●ire , nisi pro se & haeredibus suis , haer●ditat●m su●m deserens , abjurare● . Id. ibid. ) the Legat nothing at all regarded these offers , but sleigted them ; nothing would satisfie him unlesse the Earle would re●igne and quit claime his lands and his territories , pro se & haeredibus suis ; for himselfe and his Heyres for ever ; and accordingly they were given to Simon Montfort , for service done and to be done to the Church .

PAP .

You must shew the continuance of your Waldenses , as well as their numbers and multitude : but that I thinke you cannot doe , for now it seemeth they were rooted out .

PROT.

Indeed that was strongly attempted : Saint Dominick spent ten yeeres amongst the Tholousians ; k k Vincent . Bellona●es . in speculo Historiali . lib. 29. cap. 103. & 105. and he , and Didacus a Spanish B. marched against the Land of the Albigenses , the Fryers , Preached , the Inquisitours ploted , the Princes warred against them ; and the Popes they accursed their persons , and interdicted their lands ; tolli tamen non poterant , saith Paulus Aemylius l l Lucius P. utramqui sectam damnaverat , ( Humiliatorum & pauperum à Lugduno ) tolli tamen non poterant . Paul . Aemil. lib. 6. de gest . Franc. p 191.192 . ; and yet for all that the Pope could doe , they could not be suppressed ; and yet the Pope condemned both the Humiliati , and the poore men of Lyons ; ( for so they nicknamed them . ) Iohn de Serres in his Inventory of the Historie of France , m m Le manuscript de● miserabiles Albigeo●s ad●ouste , que comme le Pape vouloit continuer la persecution contre eux — & s●aprest●it à no●elle recherche pour en exterm●n●r les r●stes : Lovis ne les voulut su●●ri● , disant qu● ille● falloit persuader par ●araison , & noales contraindre par la force . Don● il avi●t que beaucoup de familles ont es●e conservees ●nces provinces là . I●han de Serres l'Inventaire in Ludovio . 9. ad An. 1227. tom. 1. p. 505 506. tells us out of a Manuscript , that as the Pope would have continued his persecution against them , and that the Marshall de la Foy ( so called for that he was as it were the cheefe champion of the immortall warre decreed against the Albingenses ) prepared for a new s●arch to roote out the remainders : Lewis would not allow of it , saying : that they must perswade them by reason , and not constraine them by force , whereby many families were preserved in these provinces . By this wee see some reason given of their preservation and continuance● and Thuanus a noble , and unpartiall historian , sometime president of the Court of Parliament in France , directs us to the place of their aboade , and habitation .

Though the Waldenses , ( saith Thuanus n n Cum huc ●llac ab eo tempor 〈◊〉 ubi● exagitarentur , tamen extilere s●mper ●er 〈◊〉 , qui eorum doctrinam 〈…〉 , Ioannes Viclevus 〈…〉 Boh●mia . I● . 〈…〉 pag. 515. ) were tossed from post to pillar , ( as they say ) yet there were ever some found , who in their severall courses have revived and renewed their doctrine buried as it were for a season ; and such were Iohn Wickliffe in England , Iohn Hus in Bohemia , Ierome of Prague , and in our dayes Martin Luther : so that reliquiae eorum , the remnant and remainder of their doctrine and profession began to be kindly entertained and countenanced by many , at Martin Luthers comming : specially towards the Alpes , and the provinces thereunto adjoyning .

The same Authour saith o o ; that after the Waldenses were overcome by force of armes , they retired into Provence , and towards the Alpes ; and in those pla●s , they sought out some shelter for their life , and profession of doctrine : some of them went into Calabria , where they continewed a long time , even unto the dayes of Pope Pius the fourth , ( anno 1560 ) some of them went into Germany , and Bohemia , and there set up their rest : others of them came Westward into Brittaine and there tooke Sanctuary and harbour : and ●here I leave them , and come to Saint Bernard .

In this age ●lourished that devout Father Saint Bernard , who in divers maine points of Religion held with us . He beleeved Iustification by faith alone , saying p p . Let him beleeve in thee who justifiest the ungodly , & ●ei●g justified ●y faith only , he shall haue pe●ce with God .

He disclaimed Iustification by workes ; for he accounted no better of mens best actions , as they proceed from man , than of a menstruous cloath q q , according to that of the Prophet , All our righteousnesse is as filthy clouts .

Indeed he held good workes to bee the meanes by , but not the causes why ; to be the Kings High●way to eternall life r r ●i pr●prie app●li●●tur 〈…〉 , qu●e dicim●s nostra , spei quidem s●minaria su●t — via r●gni , non caus● regnandi . Id. de grat & lib. arb. , but not to be any proper cause of salvation . Now the high way is not the cause , that makes a man come to his journeyes end ; the way is but the meanes , the motion is the cause .

He left his owne Inherent , and layd hold on Christs righteousnesse imputed to us , saying : s s Nunquid justitias meas cantabo ? Domine , memora●or ●ustitiae tuae solius . Ipsa est enim & mea — no● est pallium breve quod non possit ope●i●e duos ; — & te pariter , & me operiet largit●r larga & ae erna justitia . Bern. sup Cant. Serm. 61. What , shall I sing of mine owne righteousnesse ? No Lord , I will remember thy righteousnesse alone ; for that is mine too ; thou art made unto me of God , righteousnesse ; should I feare that it will not serve us both ? It is not a short Cloake , such as cannot cover two ; thy large & everlasting mercie , shall fully cover both thee and me : in me it covers a multitude of sinnes ; in thee Lord , what can it cover , but the treasures of pietie , and riches of bounty ?

Concerning free will Saint Bernard reporteth , t t Loqu●nte me ●oram aliquando , & Dei in me gratiam commend ●●t● , quòd scilìcet . ab ipsa me in bono & praventum ●gnoscerem , & provehi sentirem , & sperarem per●iciendum . Quid tu ergò , ait unus ex circumstantibus opera●is ? aut quid m●rcédis speras , si totum facit Deus . Bern. de grat . & lib. arb. in 〈◊〉 . that whiles he commended Gods free grace which prevented , promoted , and ( as he hoped ) would perfect the good worke begun in him , some that stood by r●plyed , what is it then that you doe ? what reward can you looke for , if God doe all ? and these and such like Pelagian speeches of some Monkes , occasioned him to write his treatise of Grace and free will , wherein he ( denying such freewill as many Popish schoolemen teach ) ascribes the whole originall power of good , in the consent of the will unto grace , saying ; u u Non partim gratia , partim liberum a●bitrium — sed ut totum in illo , sic totum ex illa . Id de grat & lib. arb. That the good which we doe , is not partly Gods ; but it is to be ascribed wholly unto God .

He disclaimed humane satisfactions , saying ; x x Cum ●ec millesim●e , imo nec minimae par●i , debitorum suorum valeat respondere . Id serm , de quadruplici debito . Who will murmure and say , we labour too much , fast too much ; since we are unable to d●scharge the thousandth , nay not the least part of our debts ?

He held that man was unable to keepe the Law ( in perfection according to Gods Commandements ) Neither ( saith he y y Nec latuit praeceptorem praecepti pondus , ●ominum excedere vi●es ; sed judicavit utile ex hoc ips● sua illos insufficientiae admoneri — ergo mandando impossibilia , non pr●v●ricatores homines ●ecit , sed humiles , ut omne o● obsti●atur — accipientes quippe mandatum , & sentientès defectum , clamamus in coelum , & miserebitur nostri Deus . Bern. sup. Cant. ser. 50. ) was the commander ignorant , that the weight of the Commandement exceeded mans strength , but he judged it to be profitable , thereby to put them in mind of their owne insufficiencie : so that God by commanding things impossible ( to us ) did not thereby make man a transgressour , but humbled him , to the intent , that we receiving the Law , and feeling our owne wants , might call to heaven , and the Lord might helpe us .

And to the same purpose he elsewhere saith ; z z Proptereà mandata sua ma●d●vit custod●re nimi● , ut vi●entes imp●r●ectionem nost●●m def●●ere , & non posse 〈◊〉 quo● de●et , ●ugi●mus ad 〈◊〉 . Ber. serm. 2 vigil nativ . ●om . God hath therefore commanded his precepts to be observed exceedingly , or to the full , that we beholding our imperfection , and falling short , and finding that we are unable to fulfill that which we ought , may fly to his mercy .

He held certainety of Salvation , saying ; a a H●c est te 〈◊〉 quod 〈◊〉 in corde nostro Spirit 〈◊〉 sanctus , dicens , Dim●s●a sunt tib● peccata 〈◊〉 . Id. S●rm . 1. in . ●●nunciat . that a just , man by the testimonie of the Holy Spirit within him , may be assured of grace .

Bernard likewise held , that our workes doe not merit ( condignely , ) and herein he is most direct and punctuall against all Popish merit-mongers . Dangerous ( saith he ) b b 〈…〉 P●alm . Q●i 〈…〉 1 is the dwelling of them that trust in their owne merits ; dangerous , b●caus● ruinous . And , c c Hoc to●um 〈◊〉 m●ritum , 〈…〉 spem suam 〈…〉 eo qui totum ●ominem 〈…〉 . ibi● serm. 15. This is the whole merit of man , if he put all his trust in him who saveth the whole man . Againe , the merits of men are not such ( saith he ) as that eternall life is due to them of right ; d d 〈…〉 hominum merita ut 〈…〉 ex ●ure ; aut 〈…〉 serm. 1. or as if ●od should doe wrong , if he did not yeeld the same unto them ; and he giveth a reason hereof : because all merits are Gods gifts , and so man is rather a debter to God for them , than God to men ; for what are all merits to so ●reat a glory ? Indeed he elsewhere telleth us of his merits , but they be Christs ; and these we doe willingly embrace with Saint Bernard and apply them to our selves ; his words are these .

Therefore my merit is the mercy of the Lord M●um prouide meritum , mis●ratio Domini . Non 〈…〉 sum 〈…〉 sum . Id. in Cant. 〈◊〉 61. . I am not poore in merit , so long as he is not poore in mercie ; and if the mercies of the Lord be many , my merits also are many otherwise , S. Bernard renounced al confidence of his owne merit , reposing his soule on that imputative Iustice , ( which is without man ) even the merit of Christ , as in that al-sufficient satisfaction , saying f f ●ateor non sum dignus ego : nec proprijs possum meritis 〈◊〉 obtiner● c●lorum , 〈◊〉 duplici jure illud obtine●● Domin●s meus , hareditate scilicet Patris , & m●rito passin●is ; alt●ro ipse contentur , alterum mi●i donat. Bernardus moriens . ut est in ejus vita . lib. 1. cap. 12. ; I am not worthy I confesse , neither can I by my owne merits , obtaine the kingdome of heaven , but rest upon that interest , which I have in the merits of Christs passion . Now what could be spoken more Protestant-like ? and yet thus spake Bernard of himselfe . And in this sweete meditation the devout Father closed his life , as the reporter thereof hath left recorded .

Now besides these Articles already mentioned ( which are weighty ones ) Bernard was no universall T●ent Papist : neither held he divers points which your Trent Counsell hath established for foundamentall ; and namely , the doctrine of Transubstantiation of which he is altogether silent , even there where he was likeliest to treate of it , if he had then knowne it for Catholike doctrine : yea he there delivereth that which makes against it g g

●a●em ●aro nobis , 〈…〉 〈◊〉 . &c.

Q●id est m●ndu●a●● ejus 〈◊〉 , & ●ib re sanguin●m nisi 〈◊〉 p●●sionibus 〈◊〉 . Id Psal Qui habitat . s●r 3.

.

He taught also that the Eucharist was a commemorative sacrifice onely : h h Ser. in coena Dom. insomuch as alleadging those words , Do this in remembrance of me : he men●ioneth no reall sacrifice of ●hrists body and blood , such as is made in the Masse , but a thankefull remembrance of his death and passion Vt illa p●●ë 〈◊〉 victima viver●t in memo●i● ut praet●●ite mo●tis hab●atur memoria . Se●m i● C●na Dom. .

Indeed S. B●rnard in that Sermon of the Lords Supper Longe di●●at a stylo Bernardi . B●llar . de scriptor . Eccl●s se●ul 12. , if it be his , ( for Bellarmie saith , it is nothing like S. Bernards s●ile ) speakes l l 〈…〉 suum t●ne●e , & alijs dando p●r●ige●e . S●r. in ●●●na Dom. Deum suum manu & ore 〈◊〉 , & colloquentem sinijp●is aud turi . Id ibid. of the Priests holding his God and reaching him forth to others ; as also of touching God with their hand , with their mouth , and hearing him speake unto them . Now as the Priest heareth Christ speake unto him , so he holdeth Ch●ist in his hand ; but the Priest heareth not Christ speake verily and indeed , but in a certaine peculiar manner , and forme of speech , therefore he holds not Christ in his hand really and indeed , but after a sort : for a straine of Rhetoricall amamplification , he is sayd to hold God , that holdeth any thing specially pertaining to God .

Besides , hee held the sufficiencie of the Scriptures without Traditions ; for writing unto a Covent of Abbots , he requireth m m Illo praesertim Con ilio , in quo no● hominum trad●tiones obstinat●●s desensantur , sed diligenter inqu●ri●ur quae sit voluntas Dei bona & beneplac●n● & per●ecta . Bern. Ep. 91. such a Councell , wherein the traditions of men are not obstinately defended , but which doth diligently and humbly enquire what is the good and perfect will of God : and elsewhere hee saith , n n Verbum Dei omnia in omnibus . Id. de ●tilit●te Verbi Dei Et sup. Ca●t . ser. 86. that the Word of God is all in all .

He held habituall Concupiscence to be a sinne , saying ; o o G●nus illud peccati quod toties conturbat no● , ( concupiscent●as loquor & desideria ma●a ) ●eprimi quidem deb●t . de A●ventu . serm. 6 That kinde of sin which so often troubles us ( I meane our concupiscence and evill desires ) ought indeed to be repressed .

Besides , he never taught adoration of Images , hee held not the precise number of seaven Sacraments ; Serm● de sacro A●tari , & ablut . pedum ; & serm. alio de coena Dom. he stood against the opinion of the immaculate conception of the blessed Virgin Marie q q Epist. 174. , and the like Tenets which be Articles of Faith with you .

In a word , he plainely confessed , r r Religionis antiquae non sotum ●●●tutem amisimus , sed nec spe●i●m r●tin●mus . Apo●ogia ad Guli●lin . Abba● . that the Roman Church was degenerate from the auncient religion .

And this may suffise to shew what religion S. Bernard professed : if any man desire to see more testimonies , he may finde them in Master Pankes Collectanea , out of Saint Gregorie the Great , and S. Bernard the devout , shewing that in most foundamentall points they are ours .

PAP .

Well , but I challenge Saint Bernard for one of our side .

PROT.

I have showne already , that he was ours on the surer side : he was indeed a Monke , and in some things superstitious ; and no mervaile , since he lived in a later age , above a thousand yeares after Christ , what time as errours crept into the Church , which hee might sucke in from the age wherein he lived ; neverthelesse , he was sound in the principall points of Religion : for other things wee defend him not ; since as your owne Proverbe goes , Bernardus non vidit omnia , even holy Bernard had his blemishes .

Yet since he held the foundation of Iustification by Faith onely in Christ , and disclaimed his owne merits : though otherwise his hay and stubble s s 1. Corinth. 3 , 11. of praying to Saints , and such like stuffe , as cannot endure the fire of the Holy Ghosts triall , doe burne and consume ; yet since he kept close to the foundation , wee doubt not but his soule is safe , and rests with the Lord , God pardoning his errours , and ignorances , which , he being carryed with the streame of the time , tooke up , as they were delivered to him , without scanning or examining them .

The like may be sayd of Bede , Gregorie , and others , that holding Christ the foundation a right , and groaning under the weight of mens Traditions , humane satisfactions , and the like popish trash ; they by unfained repentance for their errours & lapses knowne , and unknowne , and by an assured faith in their Saviour , did finde favour with the Lord : these and the like , we hold to be Gods servants , and propter meliorem & saniorem partem , by reason of their better and sounder part , to be with us , lively members of the true Church , though in some things they were mistaken ; and that they may be termed professours of our faith , inasmuch as the denomination is to be taken from the better part , and not alwayes from the greater : For example sake , there is much water , and little wine mixed in a glasse , yet it is called a glasse of wine ; so say we of professors , S. Bernard and such like , there is in them some bad parts , some superstition , and Poperie ; and some good , in that they hold Christ Iesus the foundation aright ; in this case they may in respect of their better part , be termed and denominated true professors ; and therefore you must give us againe Saint Bernard with others , to whom you have no right or claime , unlesse it be to their errours which they suckt in from the corrupt breasts of some of your side : and so I proceed to the severall points in question .

Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon .

Saint Bernard ( as wee heard ) approveth t t Bernard● Epist. 91 : such a Councell , wherein the Traditions of men are not obstinately defended , but the revealed will of God enquired after : for that , u u I●em de utilitate verbi & super C●nt . serm. 86. this is all in all . Claudius Seyssel Archbishop of Turin in Piedmont , ( one that was Neighbour to the Waldenses , and laboured to enforme himselfe touching their positions , and also to confute them ) saith x x 〈◊〉 tan●um quae vel in vete●● vel in novo Testam●nto sunt ●ons●r●ta , u●i ad literam j●cent , abs●●lla s●na interpretatione ad●●ttuat . Claud. Scys●●l . adv. seclam Walden . pag. 4. , that they admitted onely the text of the old and new Testaments : so that they denyed unwritten traditions to be the Rule of Faith .

Petrus Cluniacensis , after he had reckoned up the canonicall bookes , saith y y Res●ant pos● hos authentic●s sanctae Scripturae libros , se● non 〈◊〉 lib●i . Pet. Clu●●ac . de aut●orit . v●t . Te●●am . Epist. c. P●tro Brusian . ; There are besides the authenticall bookes , sixe other not to be rejected , as namely , Iudith , Tobias , Wisedome , Ecclesiasticus , and the two bookes of Macchabees , which though they attaine not to the high dignitie of the former , yet they are received of the Church , as containing necessary and profitable doctrine . Hugo de Sancto victore saith z z Suat praeterea alij quidem libri ut Sapientia Salomonis . libe● Ie●u filij Syrach & Tob. & libri Machab qui leguntur ●uidem . sed non scri●●●tur in Cano●● . H●go de S. Vi●● . praen●tat . Elucidat . de s●●ip . & Sc●iptor . Sacris , ●ap . 6. & cap. 7. ; All the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament are twentie two : there are other bookes also ( as namely ) the Wisedome of Salomon , the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach ; the bookes of Iudith , Tobias , and the Machabees ; which are read but not written in the Canon .

The Bible was translated into English some hundred yeares ( as it is probably conjectured ) before Wickliffs translation came forth ; a coppie of which auncient translation my selfe have seene in our Queenes Colledge Librarie in Oxford ; in the praeface whereof it may be seene , that the translatour held the controverted bookes for Apocrypha ; for thus he saith : what ever booke of the Old Testament is out of these ( he maketh the same ●anon with us ) twentie five before sayd , shall be set among Apocrypha : that is , without authoritie of beleefe . Therefore the booke of Wisedome , Ecclesiasticus , Iudith and Tobie , bee not of beleefe . Hierome saith all this sentence in the prologue on the first booke of Kings ; now if at that time the above sayd bookes had beene accounted Authenticall by the Church , and of beleefe , he would have sayd ; but this opinion of Hieromes is not approved by the Church , as Doctor Iames hath well observed Dr. Iames of the Fathers corruption . Part. 2. p. 74. .

Of Communion under both kinds , and number of Sacraments .

HVgo de Sancto victore giveth a reason of the entire communicating in both kinds : Therefore ( saith he ) b b Ideo duabus speciebus sumit●r , ut significetur hujus Sacramenti duplex effectus ; valet enim ad tuition●● corporis & 〈◊〉 . Hugo de S. Vict tom. 5. cap. 6. the Sacrament is taken in both kindes , that thereby a double effect might be signified : For it hath force , as S. Ambrose saith , to preserve both body and soule .

Gratian rehearseth c c Gratian. de Consecrat . dist. 2. many ancient Canons and constitutions for communicating in both kinds . Saint Bernard , in his third Sermon on Palme Sunday , maketh the Sacrament of Christs body and blood the Christians foode .

Touching the Sacrament of Christs body and blood , ( saith he d d De sacrame●to corporis & sanguinis sui ne●o est qui nes●iat ●anc quoque tan●am & tam singularem al●moniam ●● pri●um die ex●ibitam , ea die commendatam & mandatam deinc●ps ●requentari . Bern. s●rm . 3. in ramis Palmarum . ) there is no man who knoweth not that this so singular a food was on that day first exhibited , on that day commended , and commanded to be frequently received . Saint Bernards words have reference to the Institution of Christ : now at our Saviours last Supper there was Wine as well as Bread , and Bernard treating thereof saith it was commanded to be frequently received ; now if the whole Church were enjoyned so to doe , then also is every particular beleever who is of age , & fitted thereunto , enjoyned to receive it accordingly .

The precise number of seaven Sacraments was not held for catholike doctrine , no not in the Church of Rome , untill more than a thousand yeares after Christ ; this is ingenuously confessed by Cassander . Vntill the dayes of Peter Lombard ( who lived about the yeere 1145 ) you shall scarce finde any authour ( saith their Cassander Nec temeré quemquam reperias ante Petrum Lombardum , qui certum a●iquem & de●initum Sacramentorum numcrum statuerant : & de his septem non omn●s quidem Scholastici aequè proprié Sacramenta vocabant . Cassand . Consult . art. 13. ) who set downe any certaine and definite number of Sacraments ; neither did all the schoolemen call all those s●ven , proper Sacraments : but this is without all controversie ( saith the same Cassander f f In hoc c●rtè controversia nulla est , duo esse praecip●a s●lutis nostrae Sacramenta , quomodo l●quuntur Robertus Tuitiensis , & Hugo d● S. v●ctore , part . octavd c. 2. de Sacramentis . Cassander ibid. ) that there are two chiefe Sacraments of our Salvation : that is to say ; Baptisme and the Lords Supper , and so speake Rupertus , and Hugo de Sancto victore , and he saith true ; for Rupertus g g sanguinis●ucharistia ●ucharistia . Rupert● de victoria Verbi . ● . 12. c. 11. Notimbergae . 1525. putteth the question , and asketh Which be the chiefe sacraments of our salvation ? and hee answereth , Baptisme , and the Supper of the Lord .

Of the Eucharist .

IN this age ●ratian the Monke affoordeth us a notable testimony against transubstantiation ; his comparison is thus drawne ; This holy bread is after its manner called the body of Christ , as the offering thereof by the hands of the Priest is called Christs passion ; now the Priests oblation is not properly and literally in strict termes and sence , the passion of Christ ; but as the Glosse hath it , the Sacrament representing the body of Christ , is therefore called Christ's flesh , not in verity of the thing , but in a mystery ( namely ) as the representation of Christ therein is called his Passion .

Gratians words are these h h Sicut ergo coelestis paxis , qui Chri●ti 〈◊〉 est , suo modo vocatu● corpus C●rist● , cum revera sit 〈◊〉 ●orporis C●ri●●i — 〈…〉 ●arnis quae 〈…〉 3. D● Cons●●rat . Dist. 2. . As the heavenly bread , which is Christ's flesh , after a sort is called Christ's body , whereas indeed it is the Sacrament of his body ; and the sacrificing of the flesh of Christ , which is done by the Priest's hands , is sayd to be his passion , not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mistery .

I●annes Semeca who was the first that glossed upon Gratians decrees , telleth us how this comparison is to be meant . This Sacrament ( saith the Glosse i i 〈◊〉 sa●ramentum , qu●d 〈…〉 Christi 〈…〉 s●d 〈…〉 corpus Coristi , 〈◊〉 signi●i●atu● . Gloss. D●●r●t . de Cons●●rat . Dist. 2 verbo , C●●lestis . ) because it doth represent the flesh of Christ , is called the Body of Christ , but improperly , not in the truth of the thing , but in the mysticall sence , to wit , it is called the Body of ●hrist , that is , it signifieth his Body .

From these premisses we inferre , that after consecration , the Sacrament is not in truth Christ's Body , but onely in a signifying mystery● rei veritas , the truth of the thing , as it is opposed to significans mysterium , a signifying mystery , simply excludes the reality of the thing ; for it is all one , as if he had sayd , that it is there onely in a signifying mystery ; as also in saying it is there suo modo , after a sort onely , he implieth , that it is not there truely , or in the truth of the thing , visibly or invisibly . So that these words of Gratian , drawne from Saint Austin , and Prosper , seconded by the Glosse , and inserted into the body of the Cannon law , confirmed by Pope Gregorie the thirteenth , make strongly against the reall presence of Christ's body , under the Accidents of Bread and Wine , as my learned friend Master Doctor Featly made it appeare in his first dayes Conference with Master Musket , touching Transubstantiation k k Dr. Featlyes conference with Mr. Musket . April● 21. 1621. .

Besides , there were divers in this age , who employed both their tongues and their pennes in defence of this truth .

Zacharias Chrysopolitanus saith l l Sunt nonnulli , imò forsan mul●i , sed vix notari possun● qui cum damnato Berengario i●em senti●●t , & tamen ●undem cum Ecclesia damnant — Illud quoque maximé derident , quod panis & vini species quidam dicunt in a●re apparere , quidam ver● s●nsus corporeos falli , post conversionem panis & vini i● carnem & sanguin●m Christi Zachar. Episc. Chrysopol . Comment. in Evangel. Montessar . l. 4. c. 156. ; that there were some , perhaps many , but hardly to bee discerned and noted , that thought still , as Berengarius did , whom they then condemned , scorning not a little the ●olly of them that say , the appearing accidents of Bread and Wine after the conversion , doe hang in the ayre , or that the sences are deceived .

Rupertus saith m m Hoc loco silendum non est , malè quosdam ignotos , sed absconditi nominis homines opi●ari , suis quo●que de●endere dictis & scriptis● panem verum & potum , quem in sancto Altari sum●●●●● nihilomin●s Patr●s ill●s manducasse ●un● tempo●is & ●i●isse — huic erro●i pro maximo ●rgumento ad●ib●nt authoritatem Apostoli 1 C●r. 10 3.4 . — Igitur eadem que ●●ctenus in Ec●l●sia tole●atur discord●ntium & con●rad●●enta●● permixtio . Rup●rt . lib. 6. in commentar . in Io●an . cap. 6. — & in lib● 7. ; It is not to be concealed , that there are diverse , though hardly to be discerned , and noted , which are of opinion , and defend the same both by word and writing : that the Fathers under the Law did eate and drinke the very Bread and Wine , which wee receive in the Sacrament of the Altar . And hee saith they grounded their opinion upon that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 10.3.4 . They did all eate the same spirituall meate , and did all drinke of the same spirituall drinke ( for they dranke of the spiritual rock that followed them : and the rocke was Christ ) and the same Rupert addeth , that the Church tollerated this diversity of opinion touching the sacrament of the Eucharist , for so he saith in his seaventh booke ; whence we may observe that forsomuch as the Fathers under the Law did eate of the same Christ in Manna that we doe in the Sacrament of the Supper , and yet did not , nor could not eate him carnally , who was not then borne , nor had flesh : we also in our Sacrament can have no such fleshly communication with Christ as some imagine .

And whereas Bellarmine replyes n n At ●andem inter se , non nobiscum ●andem . Bellar. lib. 1. de euchar . cap. 14. § Quia . , that the Fathers received the same among themselves , but not the same with us Christians ; he is controlled by Saint Austine , who saith ●piritalem u●ique●andem , 〈◊〉 , corpo●alem alteram ; qu●a illi 〈◊〉 nos aliud ● idem signi●i●avit virtute spiritali Aug. tract● 26. i● Io●n . it was the same which we eate ; the corporall food indeed was diverse , but the spirituall meate was the same ; they eate of the same spirituall meate .

Of Images and Prayer to Saint .

Nicetas Choniates , a Greeke historian reports in the life and reigne of Isaac Angelus one of the Easterne Emperours , that when Fredericke Emperour of the West made an expedition into Palestina , the Armenians did gladly receive the Almaines 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Nicet . Ch●●●at . Anal● l. 2. , because among the Almaines and Armenians , the worshipping of Images was forbidden alike .

Claudius S●yssell , ●●ror●s Waldensium cir●a Imagines Cla●d . Seys●● . c● sect Valdens . p. ●5 . and Claudius Coussord r r Bell●● . d● Reliq . Sanct. l. ● . c. 6 § post . , both which wrote against the Waldenses , reckon up this , among the Waldensian errours , that they denyed the placing of Images in Churches , or worshipping of them .

Gratian saith De mortu●s autem quaeritur , utrum 〈…〉 vivis ●●runtur ; 〈◊〉 ex pers●●a pop●li 〈…〉 ● Abraham pater uester ●●s●rvit nos . De●●●t . 〈◊〉 . 2. caus. 13. qu●est . 2. , that question is mooved , whether the deceased doe know what the living heere on earth doe , and withall he addeth , how that the Prophet in the person of the afflicted Israelites saith ; Abraham our father is ignorant of us , and Israell knoweth us not , Esay 63 , 16. and h●rein Gratian followed Saint Austine t t Augustin . de cura pro mortuis . cap 13. who maketh the same inference upon that place of Scripture .

Gratians resolution , in this point is farther layd downe by the Glosse in those termes u u Fa●it Gra●ianus quindam 〈…〉 & re●pondet quòd non ; & ●oc ●rob●t aut●oritate Esaiae . Glos●a . in 13. q 2. Demortui● . . Gratian mooveth a certaine incident question ; whether the dead know the things that are done in this world by the living ? and he answereth that they doe not ; and this he proveth by the authority of Esay ( viz. Esay 63.16 . ) the Master of the Sentences saith x x Non est incredible ●nimas sanct●rum , quae in abscondit●●acici Dei veri luminis illustratione laetantur , in ipsi●s contemplatione e● quae foris aguntur int●lligere Petr. Lombard . Sente●t . l. 4● Distinct. 45. F. ; It is not incredible , that the soules of the Saints , that delight in the secrets of Gods countenance , in beholding the same , see things that are done in the world below . Inveni●ntur tamen quidam S. Patrum dixisse , quasi ni●il sit in creaturis quod non v●deant , qui vident omni● videntem . Ego ●mplius judicare non praesumo ni●i noc solum , quod tantum vident , qu●ntum illi placitum est quem vident , & in quo vident — difficile est de huju●modi judicare . Hugo de S. victore de Sacram. Fidei lib. 2. c●p. 11. tom. 3. Hugo de Sancto victore leaveth it doubtfull whether the Saints doe heare our prayers or not , and rejecteth that saying of Gregorie , brought to prove that they doe , qui videt videntem omnia , videt omnia ; hee that seeth him who seeth all things , seeth all things : hee confesseth ingenuously saying , I presume not to determin this matter ●arther than thus , that they see so much as it pleaseth him whom they see , and in whom they see what soever they see : and he saith , it is a hard taske to decide these points ; and withall thus debateth the matter .

Yea z z Sed non audiunt , inquis , & ego in ventum ve●ba in●undo , non audientibus & non intell●gentibus loquen● . E●ce dicamus , non audiunt Sanct● verba postulantium , neque ad beatitu●inem illorum a●●ine● ista nosse quae foris aguntur . ●cce dicamus , non au●iun● ; nunquid Deus non a●dit ? Quid ergo laboras investiga●● quid audi●t & quant● audiunt Sancti qu●s oras , cum ipse Deus ●udiat propt●r quem oras ? ipse videt ●umilitat● tuam , qui remuneraturus est devot●●nem t●●m . I● ibid. , but thou wilt reply : If they heare me not , I doe but waste words in v●ine , in making intercession unto them , that doe neither heare ●nor understand . Be it so , Saints heare not the words of those that call unto them : well ; nor is it pertinent to their blessed estate , to be made acquainted with what is done on earth , admit that they doe not heare at all : doth not God therefore heare ? If he heare thee , why art thou sollicitous then what they heare , and how much they heare , seeing it is most certaine that God heareth unto whom thou prayest ? he seeth thy humility , and will reward thy pietie and devotion : so that in effect , Hugo makes it not any materiall thing or of necessity to pray unto Saints .

Rupertus , upon those Words of our Saviour , Whatsoever ye shall aske the Father in my Name , he will give it yo● ; Iohn 16.22 . sa●th , Qu●● videlicet praeter hunc nu●a vi● , nullumque est aliud ostium — solum hu●us unig●niti silij Dei nomen quod est Iesus Christus , necessarium universae o●ationis est vehicul●m . Rupertus lib. 12. in Ioan. cap. 16. tom. 2. that it is the wholesome custome , and Rule of the Catholicke Church , to direct her prayers to God the Father through Iesus Christ our Lord , because there is no other way nor passage but by him ; and againe , we need no other chariot save onely the name of Iesus to carry and convey our prayers into heaven .

Claudius Seyssel saith b b Error Valdensium circa Sanctos ; dicunt , in●nes ess● ad Christi matrem caet●rosque Sanctos preces nostras , superstitio s●mque esse illorumado ationem . Claud. Seyssel adv● sectam Valdens . pag. 68. the Waldenses held that it was in vaine to pray to the Saints , and that it was superstition for to worship and adore them .

Of Faith and Merit .

c c Credat in te ●●justificas im●ium , & solam ju●●ifica●●● 〈…〉 . sup. 〈◊〉 serm. 2● & 〈◊〉 sol●m fid●m 〈…〉 salutem Id. 〈◊〉 . 77. SAint Bernard beleeved Iustification by Faith alone , saying ; Let him beleeve in thee who justifiest the ungodly ; and being justified by Faith onely , he shall have peace with God . Rupertus saith d d 〈◊〉 in c●●t●ntione 〈◊〉 Iud●us & qu● sola 〈…〉 fide Iesu Ch●isti cont●mpt● , num●ros●● 〈…〉 arrogat ex op●rib●s . R●pert . li● . 2. in li● Rep. ca● . 29. to . 1. , that the obstinate Iew sleights the Faith of Iesus Christ , which alone is able to justifie him , and seekes to be saved by his owne workes .

Rupertus saith , e e Ad quam [ salutem ] nos g●●tis , ul e●t , nullis nostris prae●●dentiom meritis per praedica●ores suos ipse vocavi● , & gr●tuad peccatorum re●●●sione justis●cavit . Id. lib. 1. in ● 1. Ioan. that God hath freely called us by the ministery of his Word , unto the state of Salvation , and justified us by the gracious pardon of our sinnes , not upon any precedent merits of ours .

Saint Bernard likewise held ( as we have showne ) that our workes doe not merit ( condignely : ) and herein he is most direct and punctuall .

The merits of men are not such ( saith he f f Neque●alia sunt hominum 〈◊〉 , ut propter ●a vita aete●na debeatur ex jure ; aut D●us t●juriam faceret , nisi ●am donaret — me●ita omni● dona Dei sunt , & ita ho●o magis propter ipsa D●o debitor , q●im est Deus homini●● quid sunt omnia merit● ad 〈◊〉 glo●iam ? Ber. i● Annunt serm. 1. ) as that eternall life is due to them of right : or as if God should doe wrong , if he did not yeeld the same unto them ; and he giveth a reason hereof , because all merits are Gods gifts , and so man is rather a debter to God for them , than God to men , for what are all merits to so great a glory ?

Bernard indeed elsewhere telleth us of his owne merit ; but it is the Lords mercy which he calleth his merit Meum proin●e meritum , mis●●atia Domini . Non pla●● sum me●iti inops , quamd●● ille mis●rationum non ●uerit . Quod si misericordie Domini multae , multus ni●●lominus ego in mer●tis sum . Id in Can●●● . s●●m 61. . Therefore my merit is the mercy of the Lord : I am not poore in merit , so long as he is not poore in mercy ; and if the mercies of the Lord be many , my merits also are many .

THE THIRTEENTH CENTVRIE from the yeere of Grace one thousand two hundred , to one thousand three hundred .
PAPIST .

WHat say you of this Age ?

PROTESTANT .

In this age Sophistrie began to encroach upon Divinitie ; Aristotle and the Philo●ophers were as much studied as Saint Pauls Epistles ; Gratian and Lombard were as oft mentioned in the Schooles , as the holy Scriptures ; and hence came so many Summes , Sentences , Quodlibets , Legends , Rules , Decretals , and Decrees : for now by the example of Peter Lumbard many devised subtile , and intricate disputations , calling almost every thing into doubt , after the manner of the Skeptiques , or Academiques ; and leaving the plaine and wholesome food of the holy Scripture , they began to gnaw on the bones of a controversie ; doting about questions , and strife of words , 1 Timoth. 6.4 . and yet in this curious and scholastique age , when men had almost lost themselves in the maze and mist of distinctions , the Lord raised ●●●●ch plaine witnesses , as served to testifie his trut●● though not in the words which the wis●dome of man teacheth , yet in such as the Holy Ghost teach●th 1 Cor. 2.13 . .

In this age lived William Bishop of Paris , Gulielmus Alt●ssiodorensis : Hugo Cardinalis , who made the first Concordance upon the Bible . Honorius Augustodunnensis , who composed the summe of historie .

Alexander of Hales an Englishman brought up in Paris ; he was stiled the Irrefragable Doctor , and was tutour to Bonaventure , of whom he used to say , b b In fratre Bonaventura Adam peccasse non videtur . Tri●hem . de sc●ip Eccles. that He was of such a godly life and behaviour , as Adam might seeme not to have sinned in him .

Now also lived Ioh● Duns called Scotus , because hee was descended of Scottish blood ; hee was from the subtilitie of his wit , stiled the Subtile Doctor● he was borne at Emildon , in Northumberland , and being brought up in Merton Colledge in Oxford , as also having heard c c Alexandri Alensis● Angl●● quon●am Parisijs auditor . ●●ithem . ibid. Alexander Hales reade and professe in the Vniversitie of Paris , he became wonderfull well learned in Logicke , and in that crabbed and intricate divinitie of those d●yes ; yet as one still doubtfull and unresolved , he did overcast the truth of religion with mists of obscurity , and with so profound and admirable subtility , in a da●ke and rude stile , he wrote many workes , that he deserved the title of the Subtile Doctor , and after his owne name erected a new sect of the Scotists . That he was bo●ne here in England is vouched out of his owne Manuscript workes in the Libra●ie of Merton Colledge in Oxford , which my selfe have seene , which concludeth in this manner d d Expli●it lectura Su●●ilis in Vni●e●si●a●e Parisiens . D●ctoris Ioannis D●●s in quod●m Vi●●ul● Parochiae , de Emildon voc●t● Dunston , in Comitat● Northumbriae pertinen●e domui Scholarium de Mer●on H●ll in Oxoni● . Camden Britan in Ott●di●i . & Scoti opera MS. in Bib●ioth . Me●●one●● Oxoniae . explicit Lectura &c. that is , Thus en●eth the Lecture of the subtile Doctor in the Vn●versity of Paris ; Iohn Duns borne in a certaine little Village or hamlet within the Parish of Emildon called Dunston in the County of Northumberland , pert●ining to the house of the Schollers of Merton Hall in Oxford .

The famousest of all the schoolemen was Saint Thomas of Aquine , entitled the Angelique Doctor .

In this age lived Robert Grosted , Doctor of Divinitie in Oxford , and Bishop of Lincolne ; he was termed the Maull and Hammer of the Romanists ; f f Romanorum malleus & contemptor . Math. Paris . in H●nr . 3. ad an. 1253. he wrote a famous letter to the Pope , extant in Mathew Paris , wherein he proved the Pope by his abhominable soule-murthering actions , to be an heritike worthy of death , yea to be Antichrist , Si quis animas perdere non formidat , nonne A●tichristus meritò est dicendus ● Id. ibid. and to sit in the chaire of Pestilence , as next to Lucifer himselfe . Herewith the Pope was so incensed , that he swore by Saint Peter and Paul , he could finde in his heart , to make the doating Prelate a mirrour of confusion to all the world for his saucinesse : but some of the wiser Cardinals disswaded him from such courses , telling him that it was true h h Vera sunt quae dicit , Catholicus est nobis religio●ior consilium dederunt , ma●imè propter hoc , quia s●iu●t , quod quand●que discessio est ventura● Id. ibid. p. 1162. which he sayd , that he was holier than any of themselves● and therefore it was best to hush the matter , and not to stirre the coales ; specially sith it was knowne , that at length there would be a departure from their Church : he prophecied i i Nec literabitur Ecclesia ab Aegyptiac● servitute , nisi in ore gladij ●ruentandi . Id. ibid. that the Church would never be set free , from her Agyptian bondage , but by the edge of the sword , which we have seene in part accomplished .

In this age flourished those two learned men , k k Histor. Gisburn . Gua●● . Hemings . apud Illyric in Catal. Test. verit lib. 18. Gerardus disciple to Sagarel us of Parma , and Dulcinus disciple to one Novarius Hermannus ; these held and preached , that the Pope was Antichrist , and the Church of Rome Babilon : some thirty of their followers came into England , and were there persecuted for preaching that and the like doctrine .

It is like ●hat this Dulcinus had many followers , for Coc●l●us saith , l l Fornicatus est spiritualiter cum alienigenis plarimis , cum Wiclevistis , cum Dulcinistis . Cochl . Hist Hussit . lib. 2. p. 100. that Iohn Hus co●mitted spirituall fornication with the Wiclevists , and with the Dulcinists .

Bergomensis the Chronologer saith ; m m Ad sex millia utriusque s●xu● hominum coll. gerat Dulcinu● : quinimo ad●uc in Tridentinis montibus aliquae ejus extant reliquia Iac. Phil. Bergom . in supplem . supplem . l. 13. ad an. 1305. that there were some sixe thousand people that fo●lowed Dulcinus ; and that in his time , the remainders of this profession were living about Trent ; now he continued his Chronologie unto the yeare of Grace 1503.

Prateolus saith , n n Ejus reliquia nostra aetate varijs in locis & Germaniae & Galliae , Sacramentarijs eosdem redintegrantibus , re●igu●runt Prateol . tit . Dulcinus . that the remainder of the Dulcinists had in his time revived and renewed their opinions , in divers places of France and Germanie . Platina saith o o Platina in Clem. 5. , they were called Fratricelli , or the Brethren , and that Pope Clement the fifth sent out an armie against them into the Alpes , where he famished and starved divers of them .

Nicholas Eymericus in his Directory for the Inquisitours saith , p p Totam illam terram Lombardiae suis error●bus implentes , Geraldus , & Dul●●unt . Nic. Eymeric . secunda p●●t . Director . Inquisitor . qu●est . 12. that they filled the whole land of Lombardie with their opinions , which he calleth erroneous . Petrus de vincis , Chancellour to Fredericke the Emperour , in his letters to the Christian Princes , feareth not to call the Pope an Apostata , q q Bestiam ascendentem de 〈◊〉 , plen● nominibus Blasphemie , Pardique vari●tatibus circumscriptam ●du●i potest non Curia , sed Cura : mar●●●d sidera●s plus quam M●rcum : du●s Sa●monem legens , despi●it Salomonem . Pet. de ●in●is . ●ib . 1. Epist. ●1 and the Beast rising out of the Sea , full of names of blasphemie , and like unto a Leopard ; and againe , the Court of Rome , may be called non curia , sed cura , marcam desideraus plusquam Marcum , more desirous of a marke ( of silver ) than of S. Markes Gospell , or of taking of Salmons , than of reading of Salomon .

About this time lived Arnold de nova villa , a Spanyard , who taught r r Catalog . Test. verit . lib 16 , that Satan had then seduced a great part of the world : that the faith then taught , was but such a faith as the devils might have who beleeve and tremble , meaning belike a historicall , and not a saving , justifying faith ; as also , that the Pope led men to hell : that , he and his Clergie did falsifie the doctrine of Christ : that masses were not to be said for the dead .

In this age there were great odds betweene William of Saint Amour a Doctor of Paris , and the Friers Mendicants , or Iacobins ; he accused them for troubling the peace of the Church , in that they preached in Churches , against the will of the ordinary Pastours , and heard confessions , sleighting the parish Priests , as men of weake abilities ; and also for that they had made a booke , which they called the everlasting Gospell , whereunto they said Christs Gospell was not to be compared : Pope Alexander the fourth was content upon complaint made unto him , that the Friers booke should be burned s s Prae●●pit Papa , ut li●●r secreto● & si posset ●ieri , fine Fratrum scandalo , combureretur . Math. Pa●s . Hist. ad an. 1256. , provided that it were done covertly and secretly , and so as the Friers should not be discredited thereby : and as for William of Saint Amour , hee dealt sharply with him , commanding his booke to be burnt : as also he suspended t t Dignitatibus & be●e●icijs omnibus sunt privati , done● juraverunt revocare Patisijs , & malijs ●tvitatibus & locis , quicqui● co●tra dictorum Frat●um ordi●es implicitè vel e●plicit● evomulssent . Tho Can●●pratan . lib. 2. exempl . memorabil su●●●mpori● . c. 10. § 23. from their benefices and promotions all such as either by word or writing had opposed the Friers , untill such time as they should revoke and recant all such speeches and writings at Paris , or other places appointed : so tender was his holines over the Friers credit and reputation , knowing ( belike ) what service might be done to him and his successours by these newly errected orders of ●riers : I call them newly erected , for in the time of Pope Innocent the third about the yeare 1198 , the Iacobites ( an order of preaching Friers ) were instituted by Saint Dominicke ; and about the beginning of this age , the order of Franciscans ( preaching ) Friers Minors was instituted by Saint Francis u u Franciscu● Ordinis Mino●um institutor ex As●iso civitate Italiae ori●ndus , clarvit Anno 1220. ●●ithem . de scriptor . Eccles. , borne at Assise a towne in Italy .

Of the Scriptures sufficiencie , and Canon .

SCo●us saith , x x Et id●ò pat●t quòd Sacra scriptura su●ficienter contin●t doctri●am necessariam vi●tori — quantum ad credenda , speranda , operanda . Sco●us 1. Sent. prolog . qu est . s●●und . that supernaturall knowledge , as much as is necessarie for a wayfaring man , is sufficiently delivered in sacred S●ripture . Thomas Aquinas in his commentary upon that place of Saint Paul , the Scriptures are able to make one wise unto salvation , that the man of God may be perfect , 2 Timoth. 3.15.17 . saith y y Non enim qualitercunque bonum facit , s●● perficit . Hebr. 6. ad pe●●ectinnem ●eramur . Per●●ctum est 〈◊〉 nihil deest . Tun●●rgo homo est per●●ctus , quando est instruct●s . Aquin. i● 2. Tim. 3. in tom. 16. that the Scriptures doe not qualifie a man a●ter an ordinarie sort , but they perfit him , so that nothing is wanting , to make him happy . And accordingly Bonaventure saith ; z z Fructus Scripturae non est quicunque , sed plenitudo aeternae foeticita●is . Bonaventura in Breviloq . sect. 3. tom . 6 The bene●it of s●ripture is not ordinarie ; but such as is able to make a man fully blessed and happy .

Hugo Cardinalis speaking of the bookes rejected by us , saith Et tales recipit Ecclesia , non ad p●o●ationem Fidei , sed ad m●rum instructionem . Hugo in Prolog● Galcatum S. Hieron . These bookes are not received by the Church for proofe of doctrine , but for information of manners .

Of Communion under both kindes ; and n●mber of Sacraments .

ALexander Hales , howsoever he some way incline to that opinion , that it is sufficient to receive the Sacrament in one kind : yet he confesseth b b Licet illa sumptio quae est in ac●●pi●ndo sub una specie ●a●li●●at : illa tamen quae est su● duabus est m●●eri● merit● ; tum ratione aug●entationis devotio●● , tum ratione ●idei di●atation●s actualis , tum ratione su●ptionis completioris , sumptio sub ●traque specie , quem medum sumen●t tra la●it Dominus , e●t majoris efficaciae & compl●m . a●● . Halens . summae part 4 qu est . 53. membro pri●o . that there is more merit and devotion , and compleatnesse , and efficacie in receiving in both . Againe , hee saith c c Totus Chris●us non con●i●●tur sub utraque●●ecie sacra●entaliter● se● ca●o tanti●●● sub spe●ie panis ; sangui● tan●●m su●●pecie vi●i . H●lens . part. 4. qu●est 4● . memb. 3. ●ie● . ; Whole Christ is not sacramentally conteined under each forme ; because the bread signifieth the body , and not the blood ; the wine signifieth the blood , and not the body . Concerning the Churches practise , wee doe not finde that the lay people were as yet barred of the cup in the holy Sacrament : for our Countrey-man Alexander Hales who flourished d d Alexander de Al●● , nati 〈◊〉 A●gl●●u● , cla●uit anno ●●40● . T●●them . about the yeare of Grace 1240. saith ; that we may receive the body of Christ under the forme of bread onely , sicut fere ubique fit à Laicis in ecclesiâ , as it is almost every where done of the Laiety in the Church ; ●uia C●ristus integrè ●am●●● sub utr●que spe●ie , b●●e lic●● su●ere c●●pus 〈◊〉 sub ●●ecie ●anis tantum 〈◊〉 ●ere 〈…〉 Loicis on Ecclesi● . Hal●ns . part . 4. S●m●● . qu. 53. memb. 1. it was almost done every where , but it was not done every where .

Concerning the Sacraments , the Schoolemen of this age can hardly agree amongst themselves , that there be seaven Sacraments properly so called .

Alexander of Hales saith f f Sed duo instituit per s●psum , 〈◊〉 Sac●ame●tum Baptismi & Eucharistis . Sacramentum ve●ò Confirmationis & extreme ●unctionis ded●t per Apostol●s . Alia ve●ò tria Sacra●enta quandam habent additionem à Domino in Evangelio . Halens . Summae , part. 4 quaest. 8. memb. 2 artic. 1. , that there are onely ●oure , which are in any sort properly to be sayd Sacraments of the new Law ; that the other three supposed Sacraments had their being before , but received some addition by Christ , manifested in the flesh ; that amongst them which began with the new Covenant , onely Baptisme and the Eucharist were instituted immediately by Christ , received their formes from him , and flowed out of his wounded side .

Touching Confirmation , the same Alexander of Hales saith g g Sine praejudi●io dicendum , quod Dominus neque hoc Sacramentum institu● , neque dispens●vit , neque Apostoli● Institutum suit hoc Sacramentum Confirmationis Spiritus sancti instinctu in Concilio Meldensi , quantum ad formam verborum , & ma●eriam elementarem . Id. part . 4 qu. 23. memb. primo . ; the Sacrament of Confirmation , as it is a Sacrament , was not ordained either by Christ , or by the Apostles , but afterwards was ordained by the Councell of Meldain France .

Touching extreame unction , Suarez saith h h Inter Catholicos nonnulli negarunt hoc Sacrament●m ●uisse à Christo institutum , ex quo p●anè s●quebatur non esse verum Sacramentum ; ita vero sen●it Hugo de S. victore l. 2. de Sacram● . 2. quem secutus est magister in 4. dist. 23. Alens . qu. 8. ●n . 2. Altissiodor . l 4. Sum. tract. 7. c. 1. S●a●ez . in 3. part● Thomae . disp. 39. § 2. tom. 4. , that both Hugo of Saint Victor in Paris , and Peter Lombard and Bonaventure , and Alexander of Hales , and Altissidorus ( the cheefe schoolemen of their time ) denyed this Sacrament to be instituted by Christ , and by plaine consequence ( saith he ) it was no true Sacrament , though they were of opinion that a Sacrament might be instituted by the Apostles , and therefore admitted not of this consequence .

Of the Eucharist .

COncerning the Eucharist , Scotus saith , i i Scotus lib 4 Dist. 10. quaest. 1. § quantum ergo ad is●ud a●gum . that it was not in the beginning so manifestly beleeved as concerning this coversion . k k Principaliter autem videtur me movere quod de Sacramentis tene●dum est , si●ut tenet S. Romana Ecclesia ● nunc autem ipsa tenet panem transubstantiari in cerpus , & vinum in sanguin●m , 〈◊〉 manifesse habetur Extravagante de Summa Tri●●t . & ●●le cath. firmiter Credimus . Ecclesia declaravit istum intellectumesse de veritate Fidei in illo Symbolo edito sub Innoentio●ertio ●ertio in Conci●io Later●nensi . et si quaeras quare voluit Ecclesia eligere istum difficilem intellectum hujus Articuli , cum verba scriptu ae possent salvari secundum intellectum facilem , & veriorem secundum apparentiam : dico , quod ●o spiritu expos●● sunt scripturae , quo conditae , & ita supponendum est quod Ecclesia Cath. eo modo exposuit , quo tradidit nobis fides Sp. sancto veritatis edocta ; & ideo hunc intellectum elegit , quia verus . Scotus — in 4. S●ntent . Dist. 11 , quest 3. §. But principally this seemeth to move us to hold Transubstantiation , because concerning the Saraments we are to hold as the Church of Rome doth . And hee addeth ; wee must say , the Church , in the Creed of the Lateran councell , under Innocent the third , which begins with these words , Firmiter credimus , declared this sence concerning Transubstantiation , to belong to the veritie of our faith . And if you demaund , why would the Church make choice of so difficult a sence of this Article , when the words of the Scripture , This is my Body , might be upholden after an easie sence , and in appearance more true ? I say , the Scriptures were expounded by the same spirit that made them : and so it is to be supposed , that the catholike Church expounded them by the same spirit : whereby the faith was delivered us , namely being taught by the spirit of truth , l l Vnum tamen addit Scotus quod minime p●obandum est , ●nte Lataranense Concilium non suisse dogma fidei transubstantiationem : id enim ille dixit quia non lege●at Concilium Romanum , sub Gregorio 7. neque consensum illum Patrum , quem nos add●ximus . Bellar. l. 3. de Sacram . Eucharist . cap. 23. §. u●um . and therefore it chose this sence because it was true : thus farre Scotus .

Let us now see what Bellarmie saith . Scotus tells us ( saith he ) that before the Councell of Lateran , ( which was held in the yeare one thousand two hundred and fifteene ) transubstantiation was not beleeved as a point of faith ; this is confessed by Bellarmine to be the opinion of Scotus : onely he would avoyd his testimonie with a minime probandum est ; Scotus indeed saith so , but I cannot allow of it ; and then hee taxeth Scotus with want of reading : as if this learned and subtile Doctor had not seene as many Councels , and read as many Fathers for his time , as Bellarmine .

The same Bellarmine saith , m m ●oc Dicit Scotus , non ext●re sum Scriptura tam expresum , ut sine Ecclesiae declara●ione evidenter cog●t transubstantiationem admittere . Atque ad non est omnino im●ro●●bile . Nam e●●●●si Scriptura videatur nobis tam cla●● , ut po●sit cogere hominem non protervum : tamen an 〈◊〉 sit , meri●o dubitari pot●●t , cum homines doctissimi , & 〈◊〉 , qualis i●primis Scotus fuit , contra●●●● 〈◊〉 Id ibid. § secu●●o . that Scotus held , that there was no one place of scripture so expresse , which ( without the declaration of the Church ) would evidently compell a man to admit of Transubstantiation : and this , saith the Cardinall , is not altogether improbable . It is not altogether improbable , that there is no expresse place of Scripture to proove Transubstantiation without the declaration of the Church ( as Scotus sayd ) for although the Scriptures seeme to us so plaine that they may compell any but a refractary man to beleeve them ; yet it may justly be doubted , whether the Text be cleare enough to enforce it , seeing the most acute and learned men , such as Scotus was , have thought the contrary : thus farre Bellarmine , unto whom I will adde the testimonie of Cuthbert Tonstall the learned Bishop of Durham .

His words are these n n An s●tini autem fui●set curiosis omnibus impos●●i●se silentium , ne 〈…〉 quo i● fieret — an verò potius de modo quo id fieret , ●uriosum quemque s●●e relinquere conjecturae , si●ut lib●●um suit a●te ill●d Conci●●um , modò veritatem orp●●is & s●nguinis 〈◊〉 in Eucharisti● esse sateretur , quae ●uit ab i●itio 〈…〉 fide● . Tonst●ll de Eucha●istia lib. 1. pag. 46. ; Of the manner and meanes of the Reall presence , either by Transubstantiation , or otherwise , perhaps it had beene better to leave every man , that would be curious , to his owne conjecture , as before the councell of Lateran it was left : and Master Bernard Gilpin , a man most holy , and renowned among the Northerne English , and one that was well acquainted with Bishop Tonstall his kinsman , and Diocesan , saith o o M●nini Ton●●allum●pis●opum ●pis●opum saepi●s narrasse Innocentium tertium inco●saltius se●isse , quod transubstan●stanti●●tionis opinionem arti●●lu● fidei 〈◊〉 . Quum a●ted liberum ●uisset vel sic vel aliter 〈◊〉 . V●ta Bernardi Gilpini pag. 40. ; I remember that Bishop Tonstall often tol●e me that Pope Innocent the third had done very unadv●sedly in that hee had made the opinion of Transubstantiation an Article of Faith : seeing in former times it was free to holde or refus● that opinion .

The same Bishop tolde me , and many time ingenuously confessed p p Ita ut Scotus ( quod & Episcopus Tunstallus saepenum●ro ingenuè ●atebatur ) existimarit , multo melius faciliusque pot●●sse Ecclesiam uti comm●diore interp●e●atione v●rborum in sa●●a ●oena . Rever●ntèr cum antiquis Pa●ribus de sacra Co●na loquendum judicavit Episcopus , & Transubstantiationis opinionem ●●itte●dam esse . Illud etiam idem Tunstallus ex scriptis & sermonibus affirmare solebat , Innocentium tertium nescisse quid ageret , quando Transubstātiat●onem inter ●rticulos fidei posuerit : dicebatque Innocentium d●c●is circa se hominibus car●isse● adeo equidem inquit Tunstallus , si ipse fuissem ei ● Consilio , non dubito me potuisse Pontificem ab e● Consilio vetraxissè . Vita Be● . Gilpini . pag. 46. that Scotus was of opinion that the Church might better and with more ease make use of some more commodious exposition of those words in the holy Supper : and the Bishop was of the minde that we ought to speake reverently of the holy Supper , but that the opinion of Transubstantiation , might well be let alone . This thing also the same Bishop Tonstall was wont to affirme both in words and writings , that Innocent the third knew not what he did when hee put Transubstantiation among the Articles of Faith , and he said that Innocentius wanted learned men about him , and indeed ( saith the Bishop ) if I had beene of his councell , I make no doubt but I might have beene able to have disswaded him from that resolution .

By this that hath beene sayd , it appeares that Transubstantiation was neither holden , nor knowne universally in the Church before the Lateran Councell ; twelve hundred yeares after Christ : and that when it began to be received as a matter of Faith , it was but beleeved upon the Churches authoritie ; and this Church virtually and in effect was Pope Innocent in the Lateran Councell , twelve hundred yeeres and more after Christ ; before which time there was no certaintie , nor necessity of beleeving it ; and the Councell might have chosen another sence of Christs words more easie and in all appearance more true ; there being no scripture sufficient to convince it .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

HOnorius of Authun in France , saith : q q Nullu● sapiens Crucem● sed Christum crucifixum adorat . Honor. Augustud . in Gemma animae● ut citatur à Cassandro in Consult . cap. de Imag. There is none that is godly wise , who will worship and adore the Crosse , but Christ crucified on the crosse .

Roger Hoveden , our native historian , who lived in the beginning of this age , condemned the adoration of Images ; for , speaking of the Synodall Epistle written by the Fathers of the second Nicen councell , wherein Image worship was established , he tells us ; r r Carolus Rex Francorum misit Synodalem librum ad Britanniam sibià Constantinopoli directum , in quo libro ( he● pro● dolor ) ●ulta inconvenienti● , & v●●● fidei contrari● reperieba●tur ; maximè quod penè omnium Orientalium Doctorum , non minus quàm trecentorum , vel eo amplius Episcoporum , u●animi assertione confirmatum fuerit Imagines adorari debere , quod omnino Ecclesia Dei execr●tur . Roger Hoveden part . 1. Annal. p , 405. an. 792. that Charles the King of France sent into this Isle a Synodall booke directed unto him from Constantinople , wherein there were divers offensive passages ( but especially this one , that by the joynt consent of all the Doctors of the East , and no fewer than 300 B●shops , it was decreed that Images should be worshipped ( quod ecclesia Dei execratur ) ( saith he ) which the Church of God abhorres .

Guilielmus Altissiodorensis saith s s Prop●er ista● ratione● & consim●let d●cunt 〈◊〉 , quòd nec n●s oram●s S●nctos , nec ipsi orant pro nobis nisi improprie ; i●e● 〈◊〉 , qui● or●mus ●●●m ut Sancto●um 〈◊〉 no● 〈◊〉 Gul. Al. tissindo● . in Summ● part. 4. li● . 3. tract. 7 q● est. 6. that for such and such reasons many doe say , that neither we pray unto the Saints , nor they pray for us , but improperly : in r●spect we pray unto God , that the merits of the Saints may h●lpe us .

Of Faith and Merit .

THomas Aquinas saith , t t Opera 〈◊〉 sunt causae 〈…〉 sit justus apud Deum , sed ●oti●s 〈◊〉 executiones & mani●est●tiones just t●● . Th. Aquin comment . in c. 3 Ep. ad G●lat l●ct . 4. & Rom. 3. L●ct . 4. & — ●usti●icationis in sola ●ide● Id in ● 〈…〉 . 1●ect ●ect 3. 〈…〉 side pa●sionis 〈◊〉 r●mitt●tur omnis 〈…〉 fide ejas null●s justifi●atur Bonaventura in 4 . ●ent . di●t . 15. quest. 1. that workes be not the cause why a man is just before God , but rather they are the execution and manifestation of his justice : for no man is just●fied by workes , but by the Habit of Faith infused ; yea just●fication is done by Faith onely . And Aquinas in his commentary on the Galatians in the place alleadged , tho at the first he mention such workes as are performed by the power of nature , yet afterwards he speakes also of workes wrought by the power of grace , and of such as Saint Iames mentions , Chap. 2. saying ; Was not Abraham justified by workes ? but these were workes of grace ; and yet Thomas excludes from justification , workes done in the state of Grace ; and saith , Iustification is done by Faith onely . Bonaventure saith , 〈…〉 in B. Ch●ys . & qu●tuor D●ctor . Eccles. in 〈◊〉 8 August●● quaes● . 13. that by onely Faith in Christs passion , all the fault is remitted , and without the faith of h●m no man is justified . Velosillus in his animadversions upon the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church observeth y y S. Thomas 〈…〉 in 1. 〈…〉 art 5. & in Rom. 4. constanter a●●irmat , ●ullum esse i● peccato e●meritum suae justificationis 〈◊〉 ex cōg●●o , 〈…〉 . Vega in opus●us . 〈◊〉 . 6. de Iusti●●at . , that Scotus held not merit of Condig●ity . And Vega saith , that Thomas Aquinas the flower of the Schoole-Divines constantly affirmeth , that a sinner can not merit his owne just●fication either of congruity , or of condignity ; and thus have these men given in their verdict , but now let us heare themselves speake .

There is no action of ours , saith Scotus z z Qui [ actus ] s●cundum se co●●iderat●s absque tal● acceptatione divin● secun●●m ●●r●ctam justiciam non fuiss●t dignus t●li 〈◊〉 ex intrinse●● bonitate quam haberet ex 〈◊〉 principijs ; quod 〈◊〉 ; semper enim praem●um est majus bonum merito ; & justitia 〈…〉 non reddit meli●s pro 〈◊〉 bo●o ; id●o benè dicitur quòd semper Deus praemiat ultra meritum condignū● Scotus in prim . Sent●●t● dist. 17 qu 3. nu. 2. , that without the speciall ordinance of God , and his divine acceptation , is worthy of the reward with which God rewardeth them that serve him , in respect of the inward goodnesse that it hath from the causes of it ; because alwayes the reward is greater than the merit , and strict Iustice doth not give a better thing for a thing of lesse value : And againe hee saith a a Loquendo d● strict● justiti● , Deus nulli nost●um propter qu●cu●que merita est debitor perfectionis reddendae , tam intense ; propter immod●ratum ●xcessum ill●●s perfectionis ultrà ill● merita . Idem in 4. dist 49. qu. 6. , That speaking of strict Iustice , God is bound to none of us , to bestow rewards of so high perfection as hee doth , the rewards being so much greater in worth , than any merits of ours .

The Prophet David ( saith b b Dr. Vshers Answer to the Iesuite title of Merits . pag. 547. the learned Archbishop of Armagh hath fully cleared this case , in that one sentence Psalm . 62.12 . With thee Oh Lord , is mercy ; for thou r●ward●st every man according to his workes . Originally therefore , and in it selfe , this reward proceedeth meerely from Gods free bounty and mercy : but accidentally , in regard that God hath tyed himselfe by his word and promise , to conferre such a reward , it now prov●th in a sort to be an act of Iustice , in regard of the faithfull performance of his prom●se . For promise amongst honest men is counted a due debt ; but the thing promised being free , and on our part altogether undeserved , if the promiser did not performe , and proved not to be so good as his word ; hee could not properly be sayd to doe us wrong , but rather to wrong himselfe , by impayring his owne credit . And therefore Aquinas confesseth , c c Non sequitur , quod Deus effic●atur simpliciter de●itor nobis , s●d 〈◊〉 ; in quantum debi●um est , ut sua ordinatio impleatur . 2● quest. 114 art 1. ad 3 um . That God is not hereby simply made a debtor to us , but to himselfe ; in as much as it is requisite , that his owne ordin●nce should be fullfilled .

William , Bishop of Paris , treating of prayer , giveth us this Caveat ; d d Cavendum est tibi in 〈◊〉 , ne debili aut fragil● fundamento i●n●t●ris , quod ille proculdubio fa●it , qu● de meritis suis con●idit , & t●nquam m●ritis suis debita petit●●n oratione dona Dei ; qui so●is suis viribus aut meritis i●nititur , D●i ●uxilio , & viribus scipsum privat . Gu●● . Parisiens . de Rhetoricâ diviná , cap. 52. Not to leane on the weake and fraile foundation of our owne merits , but wholly denying our selves , and distrusting our owne strength , to relye on the sole favour and mercy of God ; and in so doing , ( sayth hee ) the Lord will never faile us .

Cassander saith e e Omnes enim tàm veteres , quàm recentes — uno ore pro●itentur , remissionem peccatorum , & gratiam justificationis n●minem suis qu●mvis in speciem bonis operibus mereri — nec ab ●ac sententiâ abhorrent Scriptores Scholastici , & recentiores Ecclesiastici . Cassander C●s●ll . Art. 6. de Bon. operi● . , That both ancient a●d moderne with full consent professe to repos● themselves wholly upon the meere mercy of God , and merit of Christ , with an humble renunciation of all worthinesse in their owne workes ; and this doctrine Cassander derives through the lower ages of the Schoole-men , and later writers ; Thomas of Aquine , Durand , Adrian de Trajecto ( afterwards Pope Adrian the sixth ) Clictoveus , and delivers it for the voyce of the then present Church .

THE FOVRTEENTH CENTVRIE . From the yeere of Grace 1300. to 1400.
PAP .

WHat say you of this fourteenth Age ?

PROT.

In this Age learning began to revive ; for so it came to passe , that divers learned men among the Greekes , abhorring such cruelty as the Turkes used against their Countrey-men the Grecians , left those parts , and fled into Italy . Now by their meanes , the knowledge of Letters , and study of Tongues , specially the Greeke & Latin , began to spread ab●●ad thorow divers parts of the West . Of this number were Emanuel Chrysoloras of Constantinople , Theodorus Gaza of Thessalonica , Georgius Trapezuntius , Cardinall Bessarion , and others ; in like sort also afterwards Iohn Cap●io brought the use of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues into Germany , as Faber Stapulensis observeth Lingnarum ●●gnitio , & 〈◊〉 L●tinae & G●aecae , ( ●um postea Hebra● 〈…〉 ex●itat●●●st ) circase p●r● Constantinop●l●os 〈◊〉 hos●●bu● Christ● expugnat● , ●●dire c●●it ; pauci● Graecis , nimirum Bess●●one , Theodoro Gaza , Georgio Trape●●ntio , Emanuel● Chrysolora , illinc in Italiam recept● . Iac. Faber St●pulen●●n p●ae●at . in comment . in Evangelia . : And in the beginning of this age , Hebrew was first taught in Oxford , as our accurat Chronologer Mr. Isaacson hath observed g g Mr. Henry Isaacsons Chronology ad an . Chr. 1314. .

Now also lived Nicholas de Lyra , h h Nicolaus de Lyra , natione Anglicu● , studiofissimus● Trithem . de scriptor . Eccles . a converted Iew , who commented on all the Bible .

In this age there were divers both of the Greeke and Latin Church who stood for Regall Iurisdiction against Papall usurpation ; and namely , Barlaam the Monke ; Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica ; Marsilius Patavinus : Michael Cesenas Generall of the gray Friers ; Dante the Italian Poet ; and William Ockam i i Gul. Ockam , natione Anglicus , Ioannis Scot● quondam discipul●s . Trithem . de scriptor . Eccles. the English man , sometime fellow of Merton Colledge in Oxford , surnamed the Invincible Doctor , and Scholler to Scotus the subtile Doctor : Now also lived Durand de S. Porciano . Nilus alleadgeth divers passages out of the generall Councels , against the Popes supremacy , and thence inferreth as followeth .

That , k k

〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

Nilus de primatu Papae lib. 2. pag. 64.

Rome can not challenge preheminence over other Seas , because Rome is named in order before them ; for by the same reason Constantinople should have the preheminence over Alexandria ; which yet she hath not . From the severall and distinct boundaries of the Patriarchall Seas he argueth , that l l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id . ibid. Pag. 66. neither is Rome set over other Seas , nor others subject to Rome .

That whereas Rome stands upon the priviledge , that other places appeale to Rome ; he saith m m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . , That so others appeale to Constantinople , which yet hath not thereby Iurisdiction over other places . That whereas it is said the Bishop of Rome judgeth others , and himselfe is not judged of any other ; he saith n n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . id . ibid. Pag. 70. , That St. Peter whose successour he pretends himselfe to be , suffred himselfe to be reproved by S. Paul ; and yet the Pope ( tyrant-like ) will not have any enquire after his doings .

Barlaam prooveth out of the Chalcedon Councell , [ Canon 28. ] That the Pope had not any primacy over other Bishops , from Christ , or S. Peter ; but many ages after the Apostles ; by the gift of holy Fathers and Emperours : if the Bishop of Rome ( sayth hee o o Nam si Episcopus Romanus an●eà primus ●uiss●t , orbisque terrarum P●stor ● S. Petro constitutus , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Nunquam sanctissimi Imperarores Co●stantin . & Iustinian . ut dere sui juris promulgassent : Decernimus ut Romanus Episcopu● primus omnium sacerdotum sit ; quia lege non opu● uisset . Barlaam de prim●●● Ponti●ic . c. 4. p. 198. ) had anciently the supremacy , and that S. Peter had appointed him to be the Pastour of the whole Church ; what needed those godly Emperours decree the same as a thing within the verge of their owne power and jurisdiction ?

Marsilius Patavinus wrote a booke called Defensor Pacis , on the behalfe of Lewis Duke of Baviere , and Emperour , against the Pope , for challenging power to invest and depose Kings : Hee held , p p 〈…〉 principatus siv● contenti●sa jur●sd●ctionis , regimin●● , s●u coac●ivi judicij ●ujuslib●t in hoc seculo , Chri●●us s●ipsum & 〈◊〉 os exclusit , & ex●ludere vo●u●t . Marsil . Pata● Def●nsor pacis p●rt . 2. c 4 p. 2. that Christ hath excluded , and purposed to exclude himselfe and his Apostles from principality , or contentious jurisdiction , or regiment , or any coactive judgement in this world .

His other Tenets are reported to be these q q Catalog . 〈…〉 . li● . 18. : 1 That the Pope is not superiour to other Bishops , much lesse to the Emperour . 2. That things are to be decided by Scripture . 3. That learned men of the Laiety are to have voyces in Councels . 4. That the Cleargy , and the Pope himselfe are to be subject to Magistrates . 5. That the Church is the whole company of the faithfull . 6. That Christ is the Head of the Church , and appoint●d none to be his Vicar . 7. That Priests may marry . 8. That St. Peter was never at Rome . 9. That the popish ●ynagogue is a denne of theeves . 10. That the Popes doctrine is not to be followed .

With this Marsilius of P●dua , there joyned in opinion Iohn of Gandune , and they both held , that r r Q●òd Clerici si●t & ●sse 〈◊〉 ●ure subjecti potestati 〈…〉 , tum 〈◊〉 j●di●ijs , prae●ertim in causis ●on Eccl●sias●icis , 〈◊〉 de Padua , & Io●nnes de Iand●no do●uer●●t 〈◊〉 de ●leri● l●b. 1. c. 2● § p●str●mo . Clerkes are , and should be subject to secular powers , both in payment of Tribute , and in iudg●ments , specially not Ecclesiasticall : so that they stood against the Exemption of Clerkes .

Michael Cesenas Generall of the Order of Franciscans , stood up in the same quarrell , and was therefore deprived of his dignities by Pope Iohn the two and twentieth , from whom he appealed s s ●go secund●m fo●mam juris ab ip●● s●ut ab h●re●ico app●llavi egiti●è ad universalem Ecclesi●m , & gen●r●le C●n●ilium . Michael d● C●zena , Epist. 12. to the Catholicke univers●ll Church , and to the next generall Councell .

About this time also lived the noble Florentine Poet Dante , a learned Philosopher and Divine , who wrote a booke against the Pope , concerning the Monarchy of the Emperour ; but for taking part with him , the Pope banished him t t Dantes Aligeriu● , vir tàm ●n divinis Scripturis , quam in secularibus literi● omnium suo tempore studiosissimus , pu●sus pa●●â omnibus diebus suis exulavit . ●rithem . de scriptor . ecclesiast● . But of all the rest , our Countrey-man Ockam stucke close to the Emperour , to whom he sayd u u D●xit Ludovico Imperatori : O Imperator , defende me gladio , & ego defendam te Verbo . Trithem . de scriptor . Eccles. verbo Guil. Ockam . , that if he would defend him with the sword , he againe would defend him with the Word . Ockam argueth the case , and inclineth to this opinion , that x x S●rvus non est major domino . Pilat●s jurisdictione● habuit coa●tivam super C●ristum , camque ordinariam , non usurpatam . Ockam lib. 6 Dialog part. 1. cap. 4. in temporall matters , the Pope ought to be subject to the Emperour , in as much as Christ himselfe , as he was man , professeth that Pilate had power to judge him given of God ; as also , that neither Peter , nor any of the Apostles had temporall power given them by Christ , and hereof he gives testimony y y St●tisse lego Apostolos judicandos , sedisse judicantes non l●go , Bern. ad Eugen . Ockam ibid. cap. 3. from Bernard and Gregory . Ockams writings were so displeasing to the Pope , as that he excommunicated him for his labour , and caused his treatise or worke of ninety dayes , as also his Dialogues to be put into the blacke bill of bookes prohibited and forbidden z z In Romano Indice prohibita sunt ●uae scripsit contrà Ioannem Pap. 22. Possevin . apparat sacer . tom. 1. li● . G. p. 709. .

It is true indeed , that Ockam submitted his writings to the censure and judgement of the Church ; but ( as hee saith a a Si quid autem scripsero , correctioni Ecclesiae Catholicae , non Ecclesiae malignantium submitto . Ockam in Prologo compend . errorum Ioan. Papae 22. , to the judgement of the Church Catholike , not of the Church malignant . The same Ockam spoke excellently in the point of generall Councels : Hee held , b b Non ideò solummodò vocatur Concilium generale , quià authoritate summi Pontificis co●vocatur . Ockam . Dial . pa●r . 1. lib 6. c 84. that Councels are not called generall , because they are congregated by the authority of the Romane Pope ; and that c c Reges & Principe● & nonnull● Laici , possunt si voluerint , ad generale concilium conveni●e , & e●●sdem Concilij tractatibus interesse . Id. ibid. if Princes and Lay-men please , they may be present , & have to deale with matters treated in general Councels .

That , d d Concilium generale , licet sit par● Ecclesiae militantis universalis , tamen non est Ecclesia universalis . Igitur teme● arium e●● dicere quod Concilium generale contrà fidem errare non potest . Id. ibid. part. 1. l. 5. cap. 25. a generall Councell , or that congregation which is commonly reputed a generall Councell by the world , may erre in matters of faith : and in case such a generall Councell should erre , yet God would not leave his Church destitute of all meanes of saving truth , but would raise up spirituall children to Abraham , out of the rubbish of the Laiety , despised Christians , and dispersed Catholikes e e Quod si Concilium in ●●●resin ●abe●etur , remanerent alij Catholici , qui occultè vel publicè prout expediret , auderent fidem defendere O●thodoxam — potens est Deus de lapiditus , id est , Laicis rudibus , & ●bjectis pauperibus , & de spectis Catholicis , Dei filios suscitare . Id. ibid. p. 1. l. 5. cap. 2● . .

Wee have heard the judgement of the learned abroad touching Iurisdiction Regall and Papall ; let us now see the practice of our owne Church and State .

In the Reigne of King Edward the third : sundry expresse Statutes were made f f Satute of Provisors . An. 25. Edward . 3. cap. 22. Stat. an . 27. Edw. 3. cap. 1. S●●t . an . 38. Edw. 3. cap. 1. , that if any procured any Provisions from Rome of any Abbeyes , Priories or Benefices in England , in destruction of the Realme , and holy Religion : if any man sued any Processe out of the Court of Rome , or procured any personall Citation from Rome , upon causes whose cognisance and finall discussion pertained to the Kings Court , that they should be put out of the Kings protection , and their lands , goods , and chattels forfeited to the King .

In the Reigne of King Richard the second it was enacted g g An. 13. Richard . 2. Statute an . 16. Rich. 2. cap. 4. & 5. , That no Appeale should thenceforth be made to the Sea of Rome upon the penalty of a Praemunire , which extended to perpetuall banishment , and losse of all their lands and goods : the words of the statute are g g An. 13. Richard . 2. Statute an . 16. Rich. 2. cap. 4. & 5. , If any purchase or pursue in the Court of Rome any Translations of Bishoprickes , processes , and sentences of excommunication , Bulles , instruments , or other things ; they shall be out of the Kings protection , and their lands and tenements , goods and chattels forfeit to the King ; and processe to be made against them by Praemunire facias .

It was also enacted in the Reigne of King Henry the fourth h h Stat. an . 11. Henr. 4. cap. 8. , that all elections of all Archbishoprickes , Abbeyes , Priories , Deanries , and other dignities should be free , without being in any wise interrupted by the Pope . And indeede it was high time to curbe the Popes bestowing of Benefices on forrainers ; for upon an Inquisition taken by Simon Langham Archbishop of Canterbnry , it was found i i In ●a Inquisitione compertum ●uit , no●nu●os viginti Ecclesias & dignitates ipsiu● Papae authoritate possidere , illisque in super i●s dem privilegijs indult●m esse , ut sine mode atque numero n●ctas licite retinere possi●t . Antiq. Britan. pag. 249. , that some had above twenty Churches and dignities by the Popes authority , and were thereby further priviledged to hold so many more as they could get without measure or number . Yea , the Romans and Italians were so multiplied within a few yeares in English Church-livings , that when King Henry the third caused a view thereof to be taken throughout the whole Realme , the summe of their revenewes was found to be yeerely , as Mathew Paris sai●h k k

Math. Paris in Henr. 3. ad an. 1240.

— Rex per singulos Comitatus Angliae ●ec●t inquiri summam Redituum Romanorum , et inventum est , quod ad ta●tundem pe●●●e ascendisset , quantum Reditus ipsius , videi●●et 60. millia Ma●carum puri redditus . exceptis alijs varijs emolumentis . Math. Westmon●st . ad an. 1245. in Henr. tertio .

, Sexaginta millia marcarum , threescore thousand markes , to the which summe the yeerely revenues of the Crowne of England did not amount .

By this that hath beene said , it appeares to be an untruth , which the Papists in their Supplication l l The Papists Supplicat . answered by Gabr. Powell . , and the Authour of the treatise called the Prudentiall Ballance , have given out , to wit● m m Prudentiall Ballance cap 21. that all our Christian English Kings to King Henry 8. we●e Roman Catholikes . That all the Kings of England unto King Henry the eight were papists ; for divers of them dyed before the grossenes of Popery began ; othe●s of them , as namely King Henry the first and second , King Iohn , King Richard the second , and Edward the third , opposed the Papacy . Now the very being & essence of a Papist consists , in acknowledging the Popes supremacy n n Bellar. lib. 3. de Eccles. milit. cap. 2. § Nostra . , which since these did not acknowledge , but withstood it ; they cannot properly be tearmed Papists , though they were carried away with the errours of those times .

In this age lived those famous Florentine Poets , Dante and Petrarch ; as also our English Laureat , Chaucer ; as also Ioannes de Rupe scissâ , or Rocke-cliffe , and S. Bridget . And these found fault with the Romish faith , as well as with her manners . Dante in his Poeme of Paradise , written in Italian , complaines that the Pope of a shepheard was become a wolfe , & diverted Christs sheepe out of the true way ; that the Gospell was forsaken , the writings of the Fathers neglected , and the Decretals onely studied . That in times past warre was made upon the Church by the sword , but now by a famine and dearth of the Word , which was allotted for the food of the soule , & not wont to be denied to any that desired it ; that men applauded themselves in their owne conceits , but the Gospell was silenced ; that the poore sheepe were fed with the puffes of winde , and were pined and consumed away .

Dante his words are these , o o Dante Ca●●o . 9. del' paradiso . pag. 483. Produce et spande il maladetto fi●r● , Cha desu●ate le pecore et gli agni , Però che fatto ha lupo del pastore . Per quest● l' evangelio i d●ttor magni Son derelitti ; et solo à i decretali Si studia si ; che pare , à i lor viuagni , A questo intende ' l papae Cardinali . which may be thus Englished , She did produce , and forth hath spread The cursed flower , which hath misled The sheepe and lambes , because that then Shepheards became fierce wolves , not men . Hereupon the Gospell cleare And the ancient Fathers were Forsaken ; then the Decretals By the Pope and Cardinals Were onely read ; as may appeare By th' salvage of the gownes they weare . Againe , p p Id ibid. Canto 18 p. 538 Già solea con le spade far guerra ; Ma hor si fa , togliondo hor qui hor quivi Lo pan ; ch' el pio padre a nessun serra . I' th' dayes of old with sword they fought , But now a new way they have sought By taking away now h●re , there then The bread of life from starved men ; Which our pious fathers ne're denyed , To any one that for it cryed . Againe , q q Id. ibid. Canto . 29. pag. 601. Per apparer ciaf●un in gl●gn● , et face Sue inventioni , & quelle sontrascorse Da predicanti ; e● l vangilio sitace . Non disse Chris●o al su primo convento , Andate , & predicate al mondo ciance ; Ma d●ed e l●r verace fondamento : Et quel tanto sond ne le sue guance , Si cli à pugnar , par accender la fede , Del' evangelio fero scudi & lance . Hora si va con motti et coniscede , A predicar ; & pur che ben si rida , Gonfi● a' l cappuccio , & più non si richiede Matal vcel nel' bechetto S' annida : Che se'l vulg il vedesse , vederebbe La perdonanza , di che si confida , Per cui tanta stultitia in terra crebbe ; Che sanza prova d' alcun testimonio Ad ogni , promession , si conuerebbe ; Di questo n grassa l' porco Sant Antonio Et altri auch●r , che son assai più porci , Pagando di moneta sanza conio . Christ sayd not to th' Apostles , goe And preach vaine toyes the world unto : But he did give them a true ground , Which onely did in their eares sound . So providing for to fight And to kindle faith●s true light , Out of the Gospell they did bring Their sheild and speares t' effect the thing . Now the way of preaching , is with toyes To stuffe a sermon ; and herein joy's Their teachers ; if the people doe but smile At their conceits , the Frier i'th'meane while Huff'es up his Cowle , and is much admir'd ; For that 's his aime ; there 's nothing else requir'd : ●ut in this hood there is a nest Of birds , which could the vulgar ●ee , They might spie pardons , and the rest , How worthy of their trust they bee . By these their Indulgences and pardons , [ And by their Friers absolutions ] Such follies on the earth abound , That without proofe or other ground Of testimony , men agree To any promise that made can be . By this St. Anthony piggs grow fat , And such like Pardoners ; so that Hereby they feede the belly and the groine , Paying their people with counterfeit coine .

Here we see how the Poet taxeth papall Indulgences which the Friers vented , enriching themselves by marting such pardons , or Bulles signed or sealed with Lead , for which the people paid currant money ; he also taxeth such as vainely trusted to such pardons ; as also the fond conceite they had of being shriven and absolved in a Monkes cowle , as if some rare vertue had layd in that Cuculla or Capuccio , alluding ( belike ) to the Monkes hood , or Friers cowle , as if the fashion thereof had resembled the Cuckowe .

The same Dante in covert termes , calleth Rome the whore of Babylon mentioned in the Apocalyps ; his words are these Dante In●erno Canto 19. pag. 120. . Di voi pastor s' accorse ' l' vangelista ; quando colei , che siede soura l' acque , putaneggiar co i regi à lui fù vista ; Quella ; che con le sette teste nacque , et da le diece corna hebb' argomento , fin che virtute al suo marito piacque . The Evangelist meetes with you well You [ Romish ] Pastours ; when he doth tell How he did see the woman , which Sits on the waters [ that foule witch ] To play the whore with Kings ; that Beast That borne was with seaven hornes at least . And had the signe of some ten more T' appease her husband by their powre .

The Authour alludes to that in the Revelation , of the great whore that sitteh on many waters , Reuelat. 17.1 . and of the beast that beareth her , which hath seaven heads , and ten hornes , vers. 7. with whom the Kings of the earth commit fornication . Chap. 18. v. 3.

Francis Petrarch the Laureat Poet , and Archdeacon of Parma , a man excellently skilled in the Scriptures , and one who ( as Trithemius saith s s ●r . Pe●rarcha vir in divinis scripturis e●udi●us , literas humanitatis post longa silentia mortuas ( ut ita dixerim ) ab ●nferis revoca●it ad superos . Trith . de script . Eccles. , ) Revived learning after it had beene a long time decayed , speakes more fully , saying t t Petrarcha Son●ti 92. pag. 85. part. 1. ; Del' empia Babylonia , ond' è fugitta Ogni vergogna , ond' ogni bene è fuori , Albergo di dolor , madre d' errori , Son fugi●t ' ●o per allongar la vita . Out of wicked Babylon By Gods helpe at length I am gone ; From which all shame is banished , From which all good is vanished . The Lodge of griefe and misery , The Mother of all Heresie . And elsewhere he speakes as roundly ; u u Petrarch . part . 1. Sonetti 108. pag. 149. in tom . 4. Basil. 1581. Fontana di dolore , albergo d' ira , Scola d errori , e tempiod heresia , Gia Roma , hor Babylonia , falsa e ria Per cui tanto si piagne ; e si sospira . O fucina d' inganni , o prigion d' ira ; Ove ' I ben more , e ' i mal si nutre e cria ; Di vivi inferno , un gran mira col fia , Se Christo teco al fine non sad ira . Well-spring of griefe , and fierce wraths Hospitall , The Schoole of errour , temple of Heresie ; Once Rome , now Babylon , most wicked , all With sighes and teares bewayle thy pitteous fall . Thou Mother of deceit , bulwarke of Tyranny , Truths persecuter , nurse of iniquity , The Living's Hell ; a miracle it will be , If Christ in fury come not against thee Most shamelesse whoore .

These sayings of Petrarch did so gall the Pope , that Pius Quintus hath caused three Sonnets to be razed x x Pius Quintus tr●a e●us cantica abradi jussit . Bellar. in Ap●end . ad librum de Pont●f . c. 21. out of Petrarch ; and so indeed I found in the Petrarch which used Mancano tre sonnetti y y Pe●rarch . pag. 113. Vene● . 1600. , that three Sonnets were wanting , but that which I have alleadged , is found in the Basil edition .

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Bellarmine sayth z z Non potuit Petrarchs , cum Romam , sive Ave●●●n●m , ●b Curiam summi Po●ti●i●●s , Babylonem appell●v●t , de ●ide , ●e religione , sed de vitijs tantum , quae tu●c ●●geba●t , ea dicere . Bellarm. in Append. c. 21. , that Petrarch spoke thus of the Court of Rome , and not of the Church of Rome ; of Romes corruption in manners , not in doctrine .

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This answer will not serve : for though Petrarch might meane the Court , by the name of Babylon , and by imputing to it Covetousnesse and Licentiousnesse ; yet when he charges Rome with Idolatry , and cals it the Temple of Heresie , can this be intended of the Court of Rome ? or of corruption onely in point of life ? Besides , if any should thinke , that Petrarch spoke thus onely in a Poeticall veine , he is the same man in Prose in his Latin Epistles ; for therein addressing his speech to the Sea of Rome , 〈◊〉 d●cam●an i●sa●●● m●●●trix fornicata ●um Regibus te●●e . Illa ●quidem e● quam in Spiritu s●●er videt 〈◊〉 , illa ead●m in 〈◊〉 es , no ●alia , sede●●u●er aqua●●●●tas . Petrarch● Epist. 16 to . 2 p 729. he saith ; Thou art that famous , or rather in●amous h●rlot , which committest fornication with the Kings of the earth ; the selfe s●me strumpet thou art , which the sacred Evangelist saw in the spirit ; the selfe s●me , I say thou art , and no other ; having thy se●t upon many waters ; then he speakes of her doome , saying Quid exp●ct●● nisi quod Io●nnes idem 〈…〉 Babylon magna , p●30 ●30 . 〈…〉 & ne p●●ticipes ●●tis ●el●ctorum ●jus , & de pl●gi●●jus ibid. ; What other end doest thou expect , but the same prophesied by Iohn : Great Babylon is fallen , is fallen , and made an habitation for divels ? But thou my deare friend , with the same Apostle heare another voice speaking from Heaven , Come out of her my people , and be not partakers of her iniquities , that so you may receive none of her stripes .

To these two Italians ( to make up a Triumvirate of famous Poets ) we may ioyne our English Laureat Sir Geoffry Chaucer . This noble Knight , who by marriage was brother in law to Iohn of Gaunt , Duke of Lancaster , found fault with the Faith , as well as the manners of the Romanists in his dayes , as may appeare by these instances following ; of St. Peters successour he sayth c c The ●●owmans tale in Chaucer . , in the ●●owmans tale . * * P●t●r the Apostle . Peter was never so gr●at a foole , To leave h●s * * [ Key ] which the Papists say hee hath of Heaven gate . Key with such a * * [ Such a Lorrell ] as the Pope . Lorrell , Or take s●ch curs●d such a toole ; He was advis●d nothing well , I trow they have the key of hell . Their Master is of that place Marshall , For there they dressen them to dwell ; And with false Lucifer there to fall ; They beene as proud as Lucifer , As angry , and as envious ; From good faith they beene full farre , In covetize they beene curious .

This , and much more doth he utter in the person of a simple Ploughman , implying thereby that the meanest Country●body in those dayes , could out of Gods Word , tell what was right and religious , and what otherwise ; yea , and taxe the wickednesse and blindnesse of the Romanists in those dayes .

Touching their Shrift , Reliques , Pardons , and merit of workes , he sayth as followeth d d Chaucer in Prolog . in the description of the Frier . . Full sweetly heard he Confession , And pl●asant was his Absolution . He was an easie man to give pennance , Th●re as he w●st to h●ve a good pittance . For unto a poore ord●r for to give , Is signe that a man is well yshrive . For many a man is so hard of heart , That he may not weepe though him smart . Therefore in stead of weeping and of prayers , Men mote give silver to the poore Friers .

Touching the pardoner he sayth The Prologue to the pardoners tale . ; Ne was there such another Pardoner , For in his male had he a pillowbere , Which as he sayd was our Ladyes vayle . He sayd he had a gobbet of the sayle That Saint Peter had when that he went Vpon the Sea till Iesu Christ him shent .

In the Pardoners tale he sayth f f The Pardoners tale . Chaucer . , Myn holy pardon may you all warish , So that yee offer nobles , or sterlings , Other ●ls● silver spoones , brooches , or rings . Boweth your head under this Bull ; Commeth up ●e wives , and offereth of your wooll ; Your names h●re I ent●r in my rolle anon , Into the bl●sse of Heaven sh●ll yee all gon . I you assoile by mine high power Yee that offeren , as cleane and eke cleere As yee were borne .

And els●where he sayth The Summoners tal● . Chaucer . , The cleannesse and the fasting of us Freers , Maketh that Christ accepteth our prayers .

In the Romant of the Rose , he appli●th the name of Antichrist to that Sea , saying h h The Romant of the Rose . Chauc . , Of Antichrist's men am I , Of which that Christ sayth openly ; They have habite of holinesse , And living in such wickednesse .

Take now a taste of the questions , which in the person of Iacke Vpland , he mooves to the Frier .

Frier saith he i i Chaucers Treatise called Iacke Vpl●●d . , Why make yee men beleeve that your golden * * A Trentall is thirty Masses . Tr●ntals , sung of you , to take therefore five or ten ●hillings at the l●ast ; Against the Masse . wole bring soules out of purgatory ? if this be sooth , certes yee might bring all soules out of paine , and that will yee nought , and then yee be out of charity .

Freere , what charity is this , to prease upon a rich man , Against workes of Supererogation . and to entice him to die in a Friers cowle , and be buried among you , from his Parish-church ; and and to such rich men , give letters of Brother-hood , confirmed by your generall seale ; and thereby to beare him in hand , that he shall have part of all your Masses , Mattens , Fastings , wakings , and all other good deeds done by you , and your brethren , both whiles he lives , and after his death ? Why graunt yee them the merit of your good deeds , and yet weeten never , whether God be apayd with your deeds , ne whether the party that hath that letter , be in state to be saved , or damned ?

Fre●re , Of Auric●●ar Con●ession . why heare yee not poore folkes shrift , but are Confessors to the rich , to Lords and Ladyes , whom yee mend not ? but they be bolder to pill their poore tennants , and to live in lechery .

In this Age Iohn de Rupe scissa was famous for prophecies and predictions . The Chronicler reports of him as followeth k k Le Pape Innocent s●● . brus●er en ce temps ( l'accus●nt de sorcellerie ) un Cordelier nomme I●an de Rocque taillade en Avignon , pource qui'l est●it fort aspre en ses sermons contre le siege Romain ; e● pourc●● qui'l avoit prophetise beau●op des choses advener touchant les Papes . Ian. François le Peti●● Le Grand Chronique d● Holland . tom. 1. lib. 3. pa● 293. . Pope Innocent about that time caused a Cordelier , whose name was Iohn de Rupe scissa , ( accused of sorcery ) to be burned in Avignion ; because he was too sharpe in his Sermons against the Sea of Rome , and because he had prophesied many things to come concerning the Popes , and amongst others said in plaine termes ; that the Pope would be one day like unto that Bird , which being naked , was fledged and feathered by borrowing a feather of every bird ; and then seeing herselfe so furnished , fat , and faire , she began to flutter and strike at others with her beake and clawes ; the other birds that had made her so gay , seeing her pride and insolency , redemanded their owne feathers , and so left the poore bird naked , and starved with cold . The like ( sayth he l l Le semblable diso●t il que c● seroit un jour du Pape , et ●ource 〈◊〉 tenu et declare heretique . Il avoit commance a prophetiser des l' an . 1345. du ●emps du Pape Clement 6. e● vit on advevo● plusieurs choses de ce qui'l avoit prealit . id . ibid. ) will one day befall the Pope : and for this he was taken and pronounced an Heretique : hee began to proph●si● from the yeare 1345. in the dayes of Pope Clement the Sixt ; and divers of those things came to passe which he for●told . Thus farre the Chronicle .

Froissart the Historian saith m m Ence temps ung ●●ere 〈◊〉 p●●in de grand Cl●rgie & de grand ●ntendement e● la Cite D● A●ignon es●oit qui lo app●lloit ●rere I●han de Roche taillade ; l● quel ●rere min●ur le Pape innocent 6. fas●it 〈◊〉 en prison a● chastell de Baignoux pour les grandes marvell●s quil disoit a advenir . Io. Froissart . tom. 1. pag. 14● . ; Vnder Innocent the Sixt there was at Avignion a c●rtaine Franciscan Frier , ●ndued with singular wit and learning , called Ioannes à Rupe-scissa , whom the Pope kept in prison in the Castle of Baignoux , for wonderfull things which hee affirmed should come to passe , especially upon Ecclesiasticall Pr●lats . This Iohn offered to prove all his assentions out of the Apocalyps , and the ancient bookes of the holy Prophets ; and indeed this Parable , or similitude of the Bi●d , may very well seeme to be taken out of the Apocalyps ; for there it is said ; that The Kings of the earth gave up their power and strength to the Beast : Apocalyps 17.13 . but at length they shall hate the whore , and shall make her desolate and naked , and shall eat● her flesh , and burne her with fire . v. 16. And this was it that he meant by the Parable of the Bird , namely , that Christian Princes which had endowed the Sea of Rome with large priviledges and possessions , would in time spoile her , and leave her desolate , accordingly as St. Iohn foretold .

In like sort Br●dg●t , a Canonized Saint , foretold as heavy a doome to the Papacy . She n n Crucisigi● & p●rdis ani●●● electorum 〈◊〉 ; si●ilis 〈◊〉 Luci●●ro ; 〈◊〉 Pilato , immitior Iuda , ab●o●minabi●ior Iudaeis . Sed●s tua demergetur quasi lapis ponde●osas , qui non sub●●lit ●ntequam 〈…〉 novissi●um pro●undi . Brig●t . in Revelat. 〈◊〉 1. cap. 41. calls the Pope a Murderer of soules , the disperser and devourer of Christs sheepe , more abbominable than the Iewes , more despightfull than Iudas , more unjust than Pilat , worse than Lucifer , and that his seate should sinke like a weighty stone , alluding belike , to the fall of Babylon set foorth in the Revelation , Apocalyps 18.21 . by the Parable of a Mill-stone cast into the Sea , so shall Babylon be throwne downe , and found no more .

Alv●rus Pelagius wrote a booke of the Lamentation of the Church , wherein he notably taxed Monasticall vowes ; for speaking of the Monkes and Cloysterers of his Age , he saith o o Paupertatis professores , sed haereditatum successores . Alvar. Pelag. de planctu eccles. lib. 2. c. 54. They professed poverty , and yet expected other mens states and inheritances . And speaing of Priests and Votaries which had vowed chastity , he saith of them p p Sed hodie Cellulae nostrorum Anachoritarum Hypocritarum à mulierculis visitantur . Id ibid. lib. 2. c. 51. , That the Celles of Anchorites were dayly visited by women ; and in another place q q Per plurimos annos de latere Concubinae qualibet die surgunt . l. 2. c. 27. ; Priests for many yeeres together doe arise every day from their Concubines sides , and without going to Confession , say Masse . And againe r r Perpaucisunt hodie Presbyteri , maximè in Hispania , & regno Apuliae , qui cum sint publici Concubinarij &c. Id. ibid. lib. 2. c. 7. , There be few Priests in these dayes , in Spaine and Apulia , which doe not openly foster Concubines . He saith s s Def●cit hodie in Ecclesia Spi●itus prophetiae . Id. l. 2. cap. 5. that now adayes , The Law is perished from among the Priests , and vision among the Prophets , and that is fullfilled which is written , 1 Kings , Chap. 22. v. 22. I will goe out and be a false spirit in the mouth of all his Prophets .

In this age the Church and State of England was much burthened with the order of Franciscan Friers● insomuch as Richard Fitz-Ralph , an Irishman , Chancelour of Oxford , Archbishop of Armagh , and Primate of Ireland , a learned Divine , as Trithemius saith t t Vir in divinis scripturis eruditus . Trithem . wrote and preached against the begging Friers .

In his Sermons at Pauls Crosse in London in the yeere 1356. he taught u u In statu [ Innocentiae ] nullus fuisset mendicus , ergo juxta ejus statum ●●si legis necessitate urgente non voluit esse , nec d●buit mendicus● unde consequitur , quòd nec unquam Christus ●uit sponte mendicus . Lex praecipit , omnimo indigens & mendicus non erit inter vos , Deut. 15. cap. ●rmacanus serm. 1. fact . in vulgari apud crucem S. Pauli London . 1356. , That Christ did not undertake any such voluntary poverty , as the Friers vow ; he held it an unchristian course to be a willfull beggar , as being condemned in the fifteenth Chaper of Deuteronomy .

Hee discovered x x Id ibid. Serm. 4. the Friers hypocrisie , in that though they pretended poverty , yet they had houses like the stately Pallaces of Princes , Churches more costly than any Cathedrall Churches , more and richer ornaments than all the Princes of the world , more and better bookes than all the Doctours of the world ; cloysters and walking places so sumptuous , stately and large , that men of Armes might fight on horse-backe , and encounter one another with their speares in them : and their Apparrell richer than the greatest Prelats .

The contentions betweene Armachanus , and the Friers grew so hot , that Armachanus went in person to Avignion y y Comparentibus ●àm Archi●piscop● quam Fratribus in Avinione coram P. Innocentio sexto , An. D. 1357. Richardus public● protul●t & legit propositiones sua● . T●ithem . verbo Rich. Archiep . Ardma● . , where Pope Innocent the sixt kept his Residence , and there in the presence of the Pope , and the foure orders of Friers he declared his opinion , and maintained such propositions as he had formerly held and publiquely taught : the issue was this ; the Pope had such use of these Friers , and the Friers had such store of money , z z Armachanus opiniones suas ●rg● Fratre●coram summo Pontifice diu , plures●● sustinuit , & ipsos manif●ste ● suis deviasse regulis multis rationibus demonstravit . Sed t●ndem ( p●o● dolor ) Clero Anglicano sibi subtra●ente promiss● , & exub●r●●te ●●uria Fratium sa●i● magn● 〈…〉 , Fratres sua 〈…〉 ante su● data 〈…〉 . Walsing●m in Edw●rd tertio . ( as Walsingham saith ) that they procured favour in the Popes Court ; so that Armachanus could not prevaile ; though ( as the same Walsingham saith ) He proved the cause stoutly and manifestly against them .

To speake yet a little more of our home-bred witnesses : now lived Richard de Bury , Bishop of Durham , borne at S. Edmundsbury in Suffolke , and sonne to Sir Richard Angervile Knight ; he wrote Philobiblon a a 〈◊〉 and M● . Godwin in his 〈…〉 . , and had alwayes in his house many Chapleines that were great Schollers ; Of which number were Thomas Bradwardine , Confessour to King Edward the third , and consecrated Archbishop of Canterbury , but never inthronized : Richard Fitz-Ralph , Walter Burley , and Robert Holcot the Dominican .

Bradwardine was sometime fellow of Merton Coll●dge in Oxford ; and commonly called The profound Doctour . He taught the Article of free Iustification through Faith in Christ , the principall foundation of Christian Religion . He complaines that the same had hapned to him in this cause which sometime fell out with Elias the Prophet . Behold ( saith he ) b b 〈…〉 Domi●e , ●odie ●um Pel●gio p●o libero 〈…〉 gratuit●m gratiam 〈◊〉 pugnant ; & ●ontra Paulum ●ugil●m g●a●i● 〈◊〉 ? — T●tu● 〈…〉 mundus post Pela●●●● 〈◊〉 in errorem : 〈◊〉 Domin● , & judi●●●●usam ●uam Tho. Bradw●●●in . Pres●t . in libr●s de 〈◊〉 Dei co●t●a Pelagium . I speake it with griefe of heart , as in old time against one Prophet of God , there were found eight hundred and fifty Prophets of Baal : So at this day , in this cause , how many ( O Lord ) doe now sight with Pelagius for freewill against thy free grace , and against Paul the spirituall Champion of grace ? how many at this day reject free grace , and onely declare free-will to be sufficient unto Salvation ? for the whole world almost is gone after Pelagius into errour . Arise therefore O Lord , and judge thine owne cause .

Now also lived that famous Preacher Taulerus at Strasbrough in Germany ; Bellarmine tells c c Hunc vir●m , ut suspecti● circa fidem cōtempsi● Io. Eckius , sed egragie eum defendit Ludovicus Blosius . Bellar. de scriptor Eccles. us that Eckius ( Luthers great Antagonist ) suspected Taulerus that he was not a sound Catholike ; but Lewes Blosius hath notably defended him ; the truth is , his judgement was reasonable cleare , considering the time wherein he lived . For instance sake ; hee saith d d Religiosi●tique , ad●o fo●tem reliquerunt aqu●e vivae ( Ierem. 2. ) ut in fundo suo par●● aut nihil luminis & vitae habea●t Taul●rus . serm. in Ascens . Dom. Marc. ult. , There be many , and then of the religious sort , that have forsaken the fountaine of living waters , and digged themselves pits , that can hold no water , Ierem. 2.13 . and these ( saith hee ) are wholly addicted to their owne I●stitutes , orders , und outward exercises ; now though they performe many and great workes in appearance , yet it is not their going on procession and pilgrimage , to procure pardons and indulgences ( as they call them ) it is not all their Orizons , their knocking on their breast , their gazing on curious pictures and images , and their bowing of the knee before them ; all this ( saith he ) Et. licet multa isti opera grandia & apparentia perficiant , ut quòd pro Indulgentijs ( ut vocant ) consequendis circum●unt , quòd orationi insistunt , qu●d pectora ●un●unt , quòd pulchras contemplant●r Imagines , quòd genua flectunt , quòd totam per vagantur civitatem , nihil tamen horum acceptum est Deo in illis . Quare ? quod a●orem , & intentionem suam in his omnibus non a● Deum referant , sed contorquent ad creaturas . Idem . Dominic . 18. post Trinit. serm . 2. Math. 22. will not make their service acceptable to God : and why ? because that in doing this , they direct not their affections and intentions unto God , but divert them to the Creature .

He saith f f Mul●i sunt qui Religiosi vocantur , qui magna qu●dam adsumant exercitia , ve●bi gratia ; ●●junia , vigil●as , orationes , ●reb●as con●essiones , credunt namque se ob sola externa opera ●usti●icari & salvari posse , quod utique●ieri non potest ; ●tiam cor exigit Deus . id . Serm. in Festo de uno aliquo Confessore , Luc , 11. , There be many that goe under the name of Religious , who take great paines in set Fasts , wakes and vigils , orizons , and frequent shrift ; and thinke they shal be saved and justified by these bodily exercises ; but it can not be so , for God requireth the heart . Hee saith , ( alleadging the Prophet Esay , 64.6 . ) that all our righteousnesse is as filthy elouts ; and that therefore we must not put our trust , or repose our con●●dence in any thing that is ours , be it our words or workes , but in God .

He commends unto us g g Faciendum , quod mulierem Ch●nanitidem fecisse ex ●vangelio didicimus : quid enim illa fecit ? ac●essi● ad Dominum . Id. Domini● . 2 Quadrages . Math. 15. ●xiens Iesus , secessit in pa●t . ● Tyri & ●ydonis . the practise of the woman of Canaan ; and farther saith , hee knew a Virgin who tooke the like course , and obtained her request ; Now we know the practise of the woman of Canaan , of whom S. Chrysostome long before him observed h h Chrysost. in dimissione Chananeae ; see Cent. 5. ; that shee intreated not Iames , nor Iohn , nor came to Saint Peter , but breaking through the whole company of them , sayd ; I have no neede of a mediatour , but taking repentance with me for a spokesman , I come to the fountaine it selfe .

By that which hath beene said , we see what Taulerus thought touching humane traditions , mans merits , and Saintly invocation .

In this age also lived Gregorius Ariminensis , whom Vega stiles i i V●lent ille Gregor. Ariminensis , maximus & studiosissimus Divi Augustini propugnator . Vega in Opus● . de Iusti●icat . quaest , 6. , The most able and carefull defender of St. Augustine . This learned Schoole-man in his booke upon the Sentences hath diligently confuted divers tenets which are now holden by the Church of Rome touching Predestination , Originall sinne , Free-will , the merite of workes , and other points .

PAP .

You have produced divers witnesses ; but Mr. Briereley excepteth against them Pro● . Apology in the Authours advertisement in margine . ; and namely against Nilus , as erroneous touching the proceeding of the holy Ghost , as also a professed adversary to the Roman Church ; insomuch as his booke is put in the Catalogue of bookes forbidden l l Nilus Thessalon . contrà Pap● Prim. al●às Illyrico suppositus , po●itur i●ter libr●s prohibit●s , in 〈◊〉 lib. prohib . ●ussu Concil. Trid. Hanov. 1611. . And as for Iohn de Rupe scissa , William of St. Amour , Petrus Blesensis , Ockam , and Scotus , they were such as onely reprooved the life and manners of the Clergy m m Prot. Apol. tract. 2. cap. 2 sect. 2. pag 328. .

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If you barre Nilus from witnessing on our behalfe , because hee erred in the point mentioned , by the like reason may we challenge Damascen , whom you usually produce on your behalfe , as also others of the Greeke Church .

Neither can you disable his testimony , because he wrote against the Popes primacy and purgatory ; hee had no personall quarrell with the Bishop of Rome ( for ought we know ) he might give his judgement on these points , and be unpartiall : if the Pope forbad his booke , there be other good men that approove it , and that for the proofes and reasons which he brings .

Touching the other exception ; for the preventing ●hereof , I have purposely given instance in this Catalogue in points of faith , and sparingly alleadged such as onely taxed Romish corruptions in life and manners ; which yet is oft-times accompanied with errour in judgement ; for as Ockam saith Mali m●res excae●ant intellectum , & ita qui potest peccare , potest incidere in errorem etiam contrà fidem . Ockam Dialog. part. 1. lib. 5 cap. 26. ; Because evill manners blind the judgement , therefore every assembly which may erre notoriously in manners , may erre against the Faith . Besides , William of St. Amour ( as hath beene sayd ) opposed their Monkish vowes , which is a Doctrinal point ; Ockam opposed the Popes supremacy , which is a Dogmaticall point ; Peter of Bloix , and Iohn de Rupe-scissa , held the Pope to be Antichrist , and Ockam and Scotus held with us in divers doctrinall points .

And now having cleared this coast , I come to speake of our countrey-man Iohn Wickliffe ; he was borne in the North , where there is ( neare to the place where I live ) an ancient and worshipfull house , bearing the name of Wickliffe of Wickliffe : Hee flourished about the yeere 1371. was Fellow of Merton-colledge , Master of Balioll-colledge in Oxford , where he commenced Doctour , and was chosen Reader in Divinity . In his publique Lectures at Oxford he shewed himselfe a learned Schoole-man , in his ordinary Sermons a faithfull Pastour of the Church , for whose use and benefit he translated the whole Bible into the vulgar tongue ; one Copy whereof written with his owne hand , is extant in St. Iohn Baptist Colledge in Oxford . In his writings hee spoke and taught against the then corrupred doctrine of the Church of Rome , and specially against the order of the begging Friers , exhibiting a complaint to rhe King and Parliament against the Orders of Friers ; which thing created him the hatred of divers Prelats , but many good men fauoured him .

PAP .

Were there many that tooke part with Wickliffe , and followed his doctrine ? and were those of the better ranke , or onely some meane persons ?

PROT.

He was highly favoured of the Nobility , the City of London , and the Vniversity of Oxford . Hee was publiquely borne out ( as Parsons confesseth o o Three Convers. of England , part 1. ch. 10. n● . 36. ) by Iohn of Gant , and Lord Henry Percy , the one of them Duke of Lancaster , the other Marshall of England : And Walsingham saith p p De Curia Principissae Ioannae Ludovicus Clifford pompose vetans ne praesum●r●nt aliquid contrà ipsum sententialiter definire — timore con●●●●● sunt . Walsingam i● Rich. 2. p. 205. , That when Wickliffe personally appeared before the Prelates , who purposed to put the Popes Mandate in execution , Lewis Clifford came with a Prohibition from the Queene , charging them not to give sentence against him ; whereupon they were sore frighted , and desisted .

In like sort , another time hee escaped their hands , by the meanes of the Citizens , Burgesses , and Commons of London , as the same Walsingham saith q q Non dic● 〈◊〉 tant●m Londinenses , sed ●●l●● ipsius 〈◊〉 si impudent●r ing●rere praesump●●runt in●●●dem ca●ellam apu● Lambeth , & 〈…〉 . Id. ibid. pag. 206. ; and indeed the Londoners favoured him so much , that in all likelyhood it stayed the Prelats from farther proceeding against him . But that which Walsingham most admires , is this ; that Wickliffes opinions were not onely entertained in Cities and Townes , but even in the Vniversity of Oxford it selfe , where was ( as hee saith r r Ox●n●●●se 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 gen●rale quaè ●● g●avilapsu●●●p●●●tiae & s●ien●●ae ●●mine 〈◊〉 . Id. ibid. p. 200. Prae●● 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , non in qui●●●●●● 〈◊〉 aut civi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sed in ipsa Vniversitate Oxoniae , p●o●estis diebus : Cancellarius p●o tunc Magister N●●●●us Herford 〈◊〉 sectator Ioannis Wickliff , & quidaem Canonicus Leicestriae , & alij . Id. ibid. p 285. ) the very height and top of wisedome and learning . Neither did some young Students onely follow him , but even the chiefe of the Vniversity , Master Robert Rigge Vice-chancellour , and the two Proctors tooke part with him ; as also Nicholas Herford , Iohn Ashton of M●rton-Colledge , Iohn Ashwarby of Oriel-Colledge , Pastour of St. Maries Church ; these being preachers , and Bachelours of Divinity ioyned with him , and were questioned on that behalfe .

Thomas Walsingham specially notes s s Robertus Ru●ge d●ebus solen●ioribus commisit onu● e●bihijs quos scivit acerri●●os Ioannis Wic●●● sectatores . Philippus Rippendon Canonicus de Leycestria . talia per oravit● In doctrina autem speculativa cujufmodi est mat●ria de Sacramento Altaris : ponam ( inquit ) custodiam ori m●o , ●onec Deus aliter illustraverit , sive inst●ux●●it corda Cleri . Id. ibid. pag. 286. , that when the Archbishop of Canterbury had sent Wickliffes condemnation to Robert Rigge , Chancellour of the Vniversity of Oxford , to be divulged , hee appointed them to preach that day , whom hee knew to be most zealous followers of Wickliffe ; and among others , hee ordained one Philip Repington , a Chanon of Leycester , to preach on Corpus Christi day , who concluded his Sermon with these words ; for speculative doctrine ( saith hee ) such as the point of the Sacrament of the Altar is , I will set a barre on my lips , while God hath otherwise instructed or illuminated the hearts of the Cleargy . And afterwards , when Bulles came thicke from Rome , from the two Gregories the eleventh and twelfth , against Wickliffe and his doctrine ; the whole Vniversity gave a testimony in favour of him , under their seale , in their Congregation house in these words among others t t Iohn Stowes Annals in Richard the second . An. 1406. Octob. 5. . God forbid that our Prelats should have condemned a man of su●h honesty for an Heretique : but there is nothing that may more amply testifie the spreading of his Doctrine , than an Act of Parliament in the dayes of King Richard the second , where it is related u u Statute Anno qùinto Rich. 2. cap. 5. , that there were divers , preaching dayly , not onely in Churches and Church-yards , but also in Markets , Faires , and other open places , where a great congregation of people is , divers Sermons contayning heresies , and notorious errours for so they pleased to stile it in those dayes .

PAP .

Was Wickliffes doctrine followed after his death ?

PROT.

That which Wickliffe taught , was neither borne with him , nor died with him ; indeed if either the strength or policy of man could have made it away , it had not continued as it doth , to this day ; for in the yeere 1378. Pope Gregory the eleventh directed his Bull to the Vniversity of Oxford against the doctrine and Articles of that learned man ; even Rome it selfe ringing of his opinions in that Vniversity ; and Walsingam sayth Diu in pendul● harebant utrum papal●m Bullam deberent cum honore recipere , vel omnino cum dede core ●efutare . Th. Walsing . in Rich. 2. p. 200. , that the Pope taxed the Heads of the Vniversity for the sleight care they tooke in the suppressing of Wickliffes doctrine ; and the same Walsingham complaines , that those of the Vniversity were long time in suspence , whether they should receive the Popes Bull with honour , or reje●t it with reproach . Afterwards Gregory the twelfth directed another Bull to Oxford against Wickliffe . Thomas Arundell Archbishop of Canterbury , held a Councell at Oxford , and procured a visitation and sharpe Inquisition against the Heads of Colledges , Halls , and others suspected of Wicklevisme , or Lollardy : and this Constitution is to be seene in Linwood y y Constitut. Pr●vincial . Angli● in Gul. Linwood . lib. 5. cap de Magistris §. Quia in super ; & lib. 5. cap. de H●eret F●●aliter . . Now this was but a Provinciall Constitution ; in comes the Councell of Constance , and condemnes Wickliffe , causing his bones to be taken up z z Anno Dom. 1428. teste Gulielmo Linwood , q●i 〈…〉 . Glossa in Provin● . Constitut. Angl. l 5. tit . de Magistris in verbo Ioan. Wickliff . , and burned forty yeares Obij● Wiclevus an . Dom. 1385. Th. Walsingh . Hypodigm . Neu●●r . after his death and buriall ; and this mandate of the Popes was executed by Richard Flemming Bishop of Lincolne , as Linwood testifieth , who lived at the time when this was done , to wit , in the yeere 1428. and thus was the canonicall censure passed upon Wickliffe , and his adherents ; now the secular power joyned with them ; for in the dayes of King Henry the fourth and fifth , there was made the Statute de Haeretico comburendo b b Statute an . 2. Henrie● q●inti . cap. 7. against Her●sie and Lollard●y . & an . ● . Henr. 4. cap. 15● , whereby the Wicklevists and Lollards were adjudged to be burned .

After this King Edward the fourth sent mandatory letters to the Governours in Oxford , to make search for Wickliffes bookes , and to burne them ; and accordingly the Masters and Doctours did : Here is now both his bones and his bookes burnt ; they thought ( belike ) to make sure worke , and never to heare more of the man againe : but so it was , that out of his ashes , as it were , there arose another Phoenix and generation of Wicklevists which renued his memory & doctrine ; belike then there were many that followed his Doctrine ; or else why made they so much adoe ? what needed so many Statutes , Letters , and Proclamations ? so many Bulles , Councels , and Constitutions ? Indeede there were many in Oxford , and else-where , and them of good note , who imbraced Wickliffes opinions after his decease , as namely d d Mr. Foxes Church-story , vol. 1. in Rich. 2. pag. 475. &c. , Lawrence Redman , master of Arts , David Sawtree , a Divine , William Iones , Thomas Brightwell , William Haulam a Civilian , Raphe Greenhurst Fellow of New-colledge , as also one Walter Bruite a Layman , mentioned by one William Wideford , a great Papist ; this Wideford writing against Wickliffe , mentions e e Vt aliâ● declaravi in Epistola missa Domino Ersordensi contralibrum Waltheri Brittae . Wil. Wid●ford in artic. 11. advers. Ioan. Wiclevum , in Fascic . Rerum expetend . & sugiend . pag. 110. a booke of his owne , sent to the Bishop of Hereford , in confutation of the booke of Walter Bruite .

In a word , Wickliffes doctrine was not contained within England onely , but it gave light to other countries also ; insomuch as one Peter Paine f f Petrus Paine Anglus de Civili dominio Clericorum per tres desd●sseruit . id . ibid. pag. 157. , who was Wickliffes Scholler ; and was sent with other Legats to the Councell at Basil , went into Bohemia , whither he carried with him some of Wickliffes bookes , some part where of Iohn Huss● translated into his mothers tongue , as Cochleus saith g g Petrus Payne Anglus , discipu●us Wiclephi . Pragam cum libris illius profug●●at . Cochleus Histor. Hu●sit . lib. 1. p. 8. ; who also reports h h De quibu● & mihi ex Anglia quidam scripsit ●piscopus , esse sibi adhuc hodie duo maxima volumina Wiclephi , quae mole sua videantur aequare opera B. Augustini . id . ibid. p. 7. how one of the Bishops wrote to him out of England , that he had two Volumes of Wickliffes , which were almost as large as Saint Austins workes .

PAP .

What taught Wickliffe ? taught he as you doe ?

PROT.

Hee taught the same in substance , that we doe ; as may appeare by a Treatise i i Wickless Conformity to the Church of England by Tho. Iam●● . of Wickliffes Conformity with the now Church of England both in doctrine and discipline . Besides , we may take a taste of his Tenets out of his Treatise against the orders of Friers , wherein he saith as followeth .

First Iohn Wickliffs Treatise against the orders of Friers . cap. 1. & 18. Friars seyen , that their Religion founden on sinfull men , is more perfit than that Religion or order , which Christ himselfe made .

Friars pursuen true Priests , and letten them to preach the Gospell Cap. 12. & 36. ibid. . They pursuen Priests , for they reproven their sins , as God bids ; both to burne them , and the Gospell of ●hrist written in English , to most learning of our nation .

Friars send out Ideots full of covetise to preach , not the Gospell ; but Chronicles , fables , and leasings , to please the people , and to rob them m m Cap. 13. .

Friars n n Cap. 15. by letters of Fraternity deceiven the people in Faith , robben them of temporall goods , and maken the people to trust more in dead parchment , sealed with leasings , and in vaine prayers of Hypocrites , than in the helpe of God .

Friars o o Cap. 16. perverten the right faith of the Sacrament of the Auter , and bringen a new heresie , they say it is an Accident withouten subje●t ; which heresie came never into the Church till the foule feende Satanas was unbounden after a thousand yeeres .

Friars Cap. 19. being made Bishops , robben men by extortion , as in punishing of sinne for money , and suffren men to lie in sin , getten of Antichrist false exemption .

Friars q q Cap. 20. teachen Lords , and namely Ladies , that if they dyen in Francis habit , they shall never come in hell , for the vertue thereof .

Men sayen , the Friars be not liegemen to the King Cap. 23. , ne subject to his lawes . For though they stealen mens Children , ( to enter into their orders ) it is sayd there goes no law upon them .

Friars s s Cap. 27. saien apertly , that if the King and Lords , and other men stonden thus against their begging , and other things ; Friars will goe out of the land , and come againe with bright heads : and looke whether this be treason or no ?

Friart t t Wickliffes complaint to the King and Parliament . The 2 Article . faynen , that though an Abbot and all his Covent ben open traytours , yet the king may not take from them an halfe penny .

Friars u u Cap. 34. ibid. also destroyen the Article of Christian faith , I beliefe a common or generall Church : for they teachen that th● men that shall be damned , be members of holy Church , and thus they wedden Christ and the divel together .

Friars x x Cap. 44. by hypocrisie binden men to impossible things that they may not doe , for they binden them over the commandements of God , as they themselves say .

Friars y y Cap. 24. wast the treasure of the land , forgetting Dispensations , vaine pardons , and priviledges .

But of the pardon that men usen to day fro the Court of Rome ᶻ , they have no sikernes ( that is , certainty ) by holy writ , ne reason , ne ensample of Christ , or his Apostles .

By this we see that Wickliffe stoutly opposed those Innovatours the Friers , who ( like their successours the Iesuites ) taught and practised obedience to another Soveraigne than the King ; persecution for preaching the Gospell ; exemption of Clea●gy-men ; the use of Legends in the Church , and reading of fables to the people ; pardons and indulgences ; the heresie of an accident without a subject ; singular and blind obedience ; and lastly , workes of Supererogation .

Now whereas Wickliffe was reputed an Heretike , it is likely that this imputation was laid upon him especially by Friars , to whose innovations he was a professed enemy .

PAP .

Many exceptions are taken against Wickliffe , and namely , that hee held a a Wicle●● Articulus sextus in Concilio Cons●antiensi dam●atus sess. 8. Deus debet obedir● diabolo . Bellarm. i● praefat. controversiar . Harding in Apologiâ Iuelli part. 1. chap. 2. divis. 1. ; That God ought to obey the divell .

PROT.

Our learned Antiquary of Oxford , Doctour Iames , hath made Wickliffes Apology , and answered such slanderous objections as are urged by Parsons , the Apologists and others .

Now for the objection made , there is neither colour nor savour of truth in it ; there was no such thing objected to him in the Convocation at Lambeth ; neither can his adversaries shew any such words out of any booke written by Wickliffe , although he wrote very many . Indeed wee finde the quite contrary in his workes , saith his Apologist ; for Wickliffe saith b b Commentar. in Psalm . p. 112 ●este T. Iamesio in Wicklif●es conformity . , That the divel is clepid ( that is , called ) Gods Angell , for he may doe nothing but at Gods suffering ; and that he serveth God in tormenting of sinfull men . The phrase indeed is strange , and if either he , or any of his Schollers used such speeches , their meaning ( haply ) was , that God not in his owne person , but in his creatures yeeldeth obedience to the devill ; that is , sometimes giveth him power over his creatures .

PAP .

Wickliffe taught Rhemist . annot . in 1 Peter 2. sect. 8. and Parsons three convers . third part . chap. 3. , That Magistrates and Masters are not to be obeyed by their subjects and servants , so long as they are in deadly sinne .

PROT.

Even as light House-wives lay their bastards at honest mens doores , so you falsely father this ●is-begotten opinion on Wickliffe , which some of your owne side say d d Alphonsus à Castro advers. ●ares . lib. 14. tit . Tyrannus . Gerson primâ parte contrà Assertiones Ioannis Parvi● fol. 81. , belongs to one Iohn Parvi , a Doctour of Sorbone . And indeed in right it is your owne , inasmuch as you , upon colour and pretence of heresie in Princes , absolve subjects from their Allegeance A Bull granted by Pope Pius the fifth to D. ●●●rding for absolving the Queenes Subjects . , and raise them up in armes against their lawfull Soveraigne ; witnesse your bloody massacres in France , the death of the two last Henryes in France ; the untimely death of the Prince of Orange ; the many attempts and treasons against Queene Elizabeth ; as also that hellish designe of the Gun-powder treason .

But supppose Wickliffe said so , yet his words might have a tollerable construction ; to wit , that a Prince being in state of mortall sinne , ceased to be a Prince any longer ; he ceased to be so in respect of any spirituall right or title to his place , that he could pleade with God , if he were pleased to take the advantage of the forfeiture ; but that in respect of men , he had a good title still in the course of mundane justice ; so that whosoever should lift vp his hand against him , offered him wrong f f D. Feild of the Church-booke , 5. chap. 45. in fine . — Wickliffe thought that godlesse persons , howsoever Officio in office and place , they be Kings and Bishops ; yet merito , that is in me●it , they are neither , because they are unworthy to be either . D. Feild in Append. 2. part. p 86. .

Wickliffe indeede admonisheth the King , and all other inferiour Officers and Magistrates , as elsewhere he doth Bishops ; That he beareth not the sword in vaine , but to doe the office of a King , well and truely to see his Lawes ( rightly ) executed , wherein if hee faile , then he telleth him , that he is not properly and truely a King , that is , in effect g g Perdens nomen officij & ordinis in effectu . lo. Wicleu . de verit . script. 513. and operation ; which words are spoken by way of exhortation : but so farre was hee from mutiny himselfe , or perswading others to rebellion , that never any man of his ranke , for the times wherein he lived , did more stoutly maintaine the Kings Supremacy in all causes , as well as over all persons ecclesiasticall and civill , against all usurped and forreine Iurisdiction , and one of his reasons was this , that otherwise he should not be King over all England , but Regulus parvae partis h h Id. de fundam . leg . Angl. cap. 36. , a petty governour of some small parts of the Realme .

PAP .

Wickliffe taught i i Brereleyes Pr●t . Apolog. tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 4. , that so long as a man is in deadly sinne , he is no Bishop , nor Prelate , neither doth he consecrate , or baptize .

PROT.

If Wickliffe said so , he sayd no more than the Fathers , and a Councell said before him . Saint Ambrose saith N●msi aliter esse cupis , Epis●opus esse non potes ; nisi si● irr●prehensibili● , 1. Tim. 3. Ambros. de dignit . Sacerdot . c. 4. tom. 4. , Vnlesse thou embrace and follow the good-worke of a Bishop , a Bishop thou canst not be . The Provinciall Councell saith l l Quicunque sub ordinat●one Presbyterij , vel Episcopatus mortali crimine se dixerint esse pollutos , à supradictis o●dinationibus submovend●s c●nsuimus . Concil. Valentinum sub Damaso . cap. 4. , Whosoever after the order of Bishop or Priesthood shall say , they have beene defiled with mortall sinne , let them be remooved from the foresaid orders .

The truth is , Wickliffe lived in a very corrupt time , and this made him so sharpely inveigh against the abuses of the Cleargy ; but abusus non tollit rei usum ; and yet Wickliffe writeth m m Lib. Miscel. pag 260. Wiclev . i● Ms. against them that will not honour their Prelats . And hee elsewhere expresseth his owne meaning , that n n Nomen non facit Episcopum sed vita . De v●rit . Scrip. p. 443. it is not the name , but the life that makes a Bishop ; that o o Quicunque nomine tenus Sacerdos , vel Episcopus qui non compensat illi nomini ipsius● nomini● ration●m , non est verè Episcopus vel Sacerdos . ib. pag. 443. , if a man have the name of a Prelate , and doe not answere the reason thereof in sincerity of doctrine , and integrity of life ; but live scandalously and in mortall sinne , that he is but a nomine-tenus Sacerdos , a Bishop or Priest in name , not in truth : Neverthelesse his ministeriall Act may be availeable , for thus saith Wickliffe p p Nisi Christianus ●u●rit Christo ●nitus per g●atiam , non habet Christum Salvatorem , nec sine falsitate dicit verba Sacrament●lia ; licet pro●int capacibus : Oportet enim Sacerdotem con●cientem esse memb●um Christi , ●t u● Sancti loquuntur , quodammodo ipsum Christum . de verit . Script . pag. 138. , Vnlesse the Christian Priest be united unto Christ by grace , Christ cannot be his Saviour ; nec sine falsitate ●icit verba sacramentalia , Neither can he speake the Sacramentall words without lying , licèt prosint capacibus , Though the worthy receiver be hereby nothing hindred from grace .

PAP .

Wickliffe held Parsons and Brerely . loccitat . , that it was not lawfull for any Ecclesiasticall persons to have any temporall possessions , or property in any thing , but should begge .

PROT.

This imputation is untrue ; for what were the lands and goods of Bishops , Cathedrall Churches , or otherwise belonging to Religious houses , which were given Deo & Ecclesi● , were they not temporall possessions ? and yet are rightfully held , according to Wickliff●s tenure by Ecclesiasticall Ministers ; and long might they and peaceably enjoy them for him , in as ample manner as ever they did , so long as they were well imployed according to the will and purpose of the Donours , willing nothing contrary to Gods Word .

But for the lands belonging to so many Chaunteries , Abbeyes , Friaries , Priories , Monasteries , and other religious houses , hee was of opinion r r 〈◊〉 malum foret ●t expropriata f●rent omni● temporalia quibus Ecclesi● Anglicana est dotat● . De verit . Script . p. 465. , that Kings might dispossesse them of them , and give them genti facienti justitiam , to good and godly uses .

Concerning the other part of the objection ; Wickliffe indeede commends a kind of Evangelicall poverty , and withall alleadgeth s s Wicklif●es Complaint to the Parliam . pag. 13. that of Saint Paul to Timothy , That we are to be apaid , that is , contented , if we have lifelode , that is , living , and to be hiled , that is , covered withall , to wit , with food and raiment ; neverthelesse he did not debarre Ministers from actuall having , but from affecting the things of the world , which were to be renounced per cogitationem & affectum t t Vt Cleric●●int pauperes in facto , vel i● ani●o , vel utrinque , & ●mninò quod cov●a●● ab ●●ariti● & fostu seculi . De ver. Scrip. p. 570 , in mind and affection , as he saith .

Lastly , touching begging , he was so farre from joyning himselfe to the begging ●ri●r● , and their order , that he wrote a set Treatise against their order , as also he put up a petition to the Parliament against them . u u Parsons three . Convers. part . chap. 10. num 37.

PAP .

Wickliffe and his disciples went bare-footed , and basely clothed in course russet garments downe to the heeles ,

PROT.

Wickliffe went well apparrelled , and kept a good table of that which was his owne ; insomuch as hee professeth x x Inter alia peccata de quibu● timeo , hoc est unum prae●●puum , quod consumendo in excessivo victu et vestitu , bona pa●perum , deficio● De ver●t . Scrip. pag. 192. , that Hee feareth not any thing will be so much layd to his charge , as that hee spends that in good fare and apparrell , which might be bestowed on the poore .

PAP .

Wickliffe held b b Deci●ae sunt purae eleemosi●e ●t parochiani possunt ●ropter peccata suorum Praelatorii ad libitum s●um auferre ●as . Wicklevi Artic. 18. damnat . in Concil. Constant. , that tithes were meere Almes , and that for the lewdnesse of the Priests , the parishioners might detayne their tithes at at their pleasure .

PROT.

Wickliffe lived in a time wherein he saw tithes , oblations , and the Churches revenues spent in riot and luxury , the cure of soules neglected , and the poore unreleived ; and seeing this great abuse of tithes , hee let some inconsiderate speeches fall touching tithes : so that whereas hee seemeth to be against tithes , it is to be understood against tithes , as then they were abused by Friers ; for Friers then had power from the Pope to appropriate tithes to their Covents , by which meanes tithes came into their possession . This thing Wickliffe thought unlawfull , and would have had tithes reduced to their ancient use againe .

Besides , Wickliffe would nether have tithes taken from the Church , nor yet from the Incumbent but in some cases : not from the Church , for his rule was c c

Decima praediales non debe●t subtrahi , cum ad Ecclesiam pertinean● .

Wickliffe● confor●i●y .

, that prediall tithes were not to be taken from the Churc● , since they belong to the same ; yea , he cha●rges the people in ●alutem animae d d ●d Parochianos put●n●● in ●●lutem A●i●● Decima● ac ob●a●io●es id●●e● ministrare . De verit . Script . pag. 435. , upon paine of their salvation , to pay their tithes du●ly and ●ruely unto their Parson : neither would he have them paid to a good Minister onely , but to others also e e Posi●● , quod sit not●rio crimine irreti●us . Ibid. pag. 413 , unlesse the fact were v●ry ●candal●us and notorious ; and thereof hee would ●ot have the people , but the Prelats and superiors to judge and censure : And in case the party delinquent be either so vicious a man of life or doctrine , as that there is no hope of his amendment , or else hath committed some such fact as wilfull murder or Treason , whereby he is ipso facto depriveable in law , the tithes are not to be quite taken away from f f Auserre à Clerico bona fortun●e est paena mitissima ibid. p. 430. the Church , but to be sequestred , as it were for the next Incumbent ; and he gives instance in Elies sonnes g g Wickliffes complaint to the Parliament . pag. 12. .

PAP .

Wickliffe taught h h Prot. Apol. tract . ● . cap. 2. sect. 4. , that All things come to passe by absolute necessity , which is Stoicall .

PRO● .

Wickliffe telleth us i i Deus nemini promitti● paenam vel praemium , nis● sub conditione tacitâ vel expressa De verit . Scrip. p. 383. , that Gods promises and threatnings are conditionall ; and that as God hath appointed the end , so he hath appointed the meanes of our salvation ; but notwithstanding he grants such a necessity , yet he addes k k In exposit. Decalogi . p. 81 , quamvis omnia futura de necessitate eveniant , Deus tamen vult quod bon● servi● suis eveniant , per medium quo oratur .

PAP .

He condemned lawfull Oathes , savouring therein , saith Os●ander , of Anabaptisme l l Brereley ibid. .

PROT.

Had Osiander seene Wickliffes Latin exposition vpon the third Commandment m m It is the second Commandment in his account . , and his booke of the truth of the Scripture , or his De aquivocis Iu●amentis et ●all●cibus vitandis . De verit . Script . pag. 284● treatise against A●quivocation ; he would have beene of another mind ; for therein he plainely shewes the contrary ; condemning equivocall propositions o o Scribi● contra propositionem incompl●t●● & pe●dulam intelligend●m cum sensu suo sinistro . ibid. p. 282. , whether with Oath , or withou● Oath ; willing men not for a world of worlds p p N●mo me●tire●ur quocunque levi mendacio , pro s●lvatione vita propriae , et vi●ae proximi , vel p●o salvatio-infinitorum mu●dorum . ibid p. 242 , or for the salvation of his owne , or anothers soule , to lie and equivocate . And elsewhere he saith q q Wickliffes Complaint . p. 55. , God teaches to sweare by him in neede , and not by his creatures : whereby it appeares that Wickliffe was no usuall dissemb●er of his faith , as Mr. Brerely would have it .

PAP .

Wickliffe r r Brereley loc. citat● . inveied against the Church , for that hee had beene deprived by the Archbishop of Canterbury , from a certaine Benefice .

PROT.

Because he was deprived of his Benefice , he wrote against the Church ; by the like reason , because hee was preferred to another Benefice in Leicester-shire where h● dyed ; therefore he should not have inveighed against the Church . But I should thinke that the great Iohn of Gaunt , Duke of Lancaster , might have helped him to a small head-ship of Canterbury Colledge in Oxford . For Pars●ns confesseth Three Convers. part. 1. c. ●0 . n● . 36. that Wickliffe was in great favour with the Duke , and publikely borne out by him ; and the Duke ( as th● same Parsons saith s s Ibid. part. 3. cap. 5. num. 11 ) Governed all in the later dayes of his Father King Edward the third , and was also in good favour with his Nephew King Richard the second , all the time that Wickliffe lived ; so that in all likelyhood he might have helpt him to the Bishopricke of Worcester .

Besides , if Wickliffe ( as Parsons saith t t Ibid. part. 3. cap. 5. ●● . 14. ) contemned all temporall goods , a●d adjoyned himselfe to the begging Friers ; what made him then affect the Bishopricke of Worcester ?

Well , but the missing of these places provoked him to inveigh against the Church ; so was Ierome provoked by the Cleargy of Rome , and this sharpned his stile against them u u Cum in Babylone ver s●rer , & pu●pur●ta meretrici● colo●●● essem — & ec●e Pharisae●rum c●●c●●●avit Senatus . Hieron . ad Pa●linam . in lib. Dydim● de Spir● Sancto● praef●t . ; and yet are not Saint Hi●romes workes any whit the more misliked .

Lastly , hee inveighed not against the Church ; for he protesteth that he did as neere as hee could both write and speake , and doe all things , ad Honorem Dei & utilitatem Ecclesiae x x De verit . Script . p. 145. & 15. , for the glory of God , and the benefit of his Church .

The occasion of Wickliffes discontent I finde to be this y y Godwins Catalogue of the Bishop● of England . Simon Langham , Archbishop of Canterbury , sequestred the fruites of the Benefice of Pagham from Canterbury Colledge ; and withall molested the Schollers there , intending to displace them all , and to put in Monkes , which in the end he brought to passe . Now Wickliffe was one of them that were thus displaced , having withstood the Archbishop in this businesse with might and maine ; but by the Popes favour , and the Archbishops power , the Monkes overbore Wickliffe and his fellowes ,

PAP .

You have spoken enough of Wickliffe , and his Disciples ; what were those Lollards you mentioned ?

PRO● .

They were a company of true and godly professours ; ●ome have conceited them to have beene called Lollards of Lollium , cockle or darnell , and so saith the glosse in Linwood z z Linw●od sup● provincial . Constit. Angl. lib. 5. ●ap . de Haeret. § Finaliter . Glossa in verbo Lollardi● , sic dicta à Lollio . quia s●●ut Lollium inficit s●getes , ●ic Lollardi . ; as also in the Squires prologue in Chaucer .

I smell a Loller in the w●nde ( quoth hee ) abideth for Gods digne passion , for mee shall have a predication , this Loller here will preach us s●mewhat — here shall hee not preach , here shall he no Gospell glose , ne teach ; he beleeueth all in the great God ( qu●th he ) he would sowne some difficulty , or spring cockle in our cleare corne . But they were called Lollards from one Raynard Lollard , History of the Wal●enses . booke 2. ch. 11. who at the first was a Franciscan Monke , and an enemy to the Waldenses , but yet a man carried with a sanctified desire to finde the way of salvation . Hee afterwards taught the doctrine of the Waldenses , was apprehended in Germany by the Monkes Inquisitours , and being delivered to the secular power , was burnt at Cologne . He wrote a Commentary upon the Apocalyps , wherein he applied many things to the Pope as to the Roman Antichrist . This was he of whom the faithfull in England were called Lollards ; where he taught , witnesse that Tower in London which at this present is called by his name Lollards Tower , where the faithfull that profe●sed his religion were imprisoned .

Iohn l● Maire in the third part of the difference of Schismes b b Predit plus●curs ●utres saintes pe● sonnes par revelation divine , si comme Boc●ace . Saint Vincent de Valence , de ●ord●e de Fr●res prescheu●s . ●albe Ioach●n Calabro●s , Frere Reynard , L●dart . I●h●n le Ma●●e de Belges en la ●●erce pa●t●● de la disser●●ce des schis●es ●t des Concil●es de 〈◊〉 , ●●sive 24. , puts him in the ranke of those holy men that have foretold by divine revelation many things that have come to passe in his time ; such as were Boccace , Saint Vincent of Valence ; of the order of preaching Friers ; Io●chim Abbot of Ga●abria ; to them he adjoyneth the Frier R●ynard Lollard . And so I proceede to the severall points in question .

Of the Scriptures suffici●n●y and Canon .

WIckliffe saith c c De verit . S●ript . pag. ●5 l●b . de 7. p●●●●t . mo●tal . pag. 40. — Scriptura s●c●ndu● sensum suum s●cr●m 〈◊〉 pr● qua●●m scien●●● ne●●ssari● 〈◊〉 de ver. S●rip . pag. ●6● , that Christs law sufficeth by it selfe to rule Christs Church ; that a Christian 〈◊〉 well under●tanding it , may thence gather sufficient knowledge during his pilgrimag● h●re on earth . Lyra upon those words in the Gospell , They have Moses and the Prophets ; let them heare them , Luke 16.29 . makes this inference d d H●bent Mosen qu● docuit moralia & agenda ; & ●r●p●●●as qui doc●er●nt mystica & credenda ; et ista suffic●unt ad salutem ; & ideo sequitur . audiant il●os . Lyra 〈◊〉 Lucae cap. 16. ver. 29. , Moses he taught mor●lity , and what was our duty to doe ; the Prophets taught mysteries , and what we are to beleeve ; Et ista sufficiunt ad salutem , and these are sufficient for our salvation ; and therefore it followes , Heare them : so that hee reduceth all to two heads ; the Agenda , or practicall part● and the Credenda , or Articles of the Creede , and these essentiall necessaries contained in the Scriptures , he makes sufficient to salvation .

Amongst the sundry opinions which Ockam reckons vp , this is one , sayth Ockam e e Illae solae ●eritates sunt Catholicae repu●ande . & de necessitate s●lu●is credende● quae in Canone Bibliae explicitè vel implicit● asseruntur . Itaque si a●ique veritatos in Biblia sub ●o●ma propria mini●è contmentur , ex solis tamen contentis in ●a consequentia necessaria & ●ormali possunt inferri ; sunt in●er Catholica● connumerand● . Ockam Dialog. pa●t. 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. , That onely those verities are to be esteemed Catholike , and such as are necessarily to be beleeved for the attaining of salvation , which either expressely are delivered in ●cripture , or by necessary consequence may be inferred from things so expressed .

Richard Fitz-Raphe , Archbishop of Armagh , and Primate of Ireland , saith , It is defined in generall Councels , that there are two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament . f f Concilijs Generalibus definiunt viginti duos libros veteris Testamenti esse authenticos . Armacha● in Quastionib . Armenorum , lib. 19. ca● . 19. Nicholas Lyra the converted Iew , is plentifull in this argument ; Now that I have by Gods helpe g g Postquam anxiliante Deo scripsi super libr●s Sa●rae Scripture Canonicos , super alios intendo scribere qui no● sunt de Canone , scilicet● L●ber Sapientiae , Ecclesiasticus , Iudith , Tobias , & libr● Maccabaeorum ; recepti sun● ab Ecclesia , ut ad morum informationem in ●a legantu● , ●amen eorum authoritas ad probandum e● quae in contentionem veniunt minùs idonea reputatur . Lyra praefat. exposit. in Tob●am . ( saith he ) written upon the Canonicall bookes of holy Scripture , beginning at Genesis , and so going on to the end ; trusting to the helpe of the same God , I intend to write upon those other bookes that are not Canonicall , such as are the booke of Wisedome , Ecclesiasticus , Iudith , Tobias , and the bookes of Macchabes ; and withall addeth , that it is to be considered , that these bookes which are not Canonicall , are received by the Church , and read in the same for the information of manners ; yet is their authority thought to be weake to prove things that are in controversie . And the same Lyra writing vpon the first of Esdras , the first Chapter , saith , That though the bookes of Tobias , Iudith , and the Maccabes be Historicall bookes , yet he intendeth for the present to passe by them , and not to comment on them , and he gives his reason ; namely , quia non sunt de Canone apud Iudaeos , nec apud Christianos , because they are not in the Canon , neither with the Iewes , nor with the Christians .

Wickliffe also held h h S●tis est pro su● militia ●abere 22. libr●s de veteri Testamento — Authentic●s . Wickli●●e de ver. Scrip. p. 110. , that there are but two and twenty Authenticall bookes of the Old Testament .

Of Communion under both kinds ; and number of Sacraments .

THe custome of communicating in both kinds , was not abolished in the beginning of this Age , but was retained in certaine places , especially in Monasteries , untill the yeere of our Lord thirteene hundred and more . Thus writeth Cassander In utraque spec●e Communio 〈…〉 locis , prasertim 〈◊〉 Mon●sterijs ret●nt●●st , idque usque ad annum amplius mille ●imum trecentesimum . Cas●ander Consult . Art . 22. . Beatus Rhenanus saith Prohibetur ne qu●cquam pretio s●rum vaso●um possideant , praeter C●licem ●rgente●m , & fillulam , quâ Lai●i Domi●●cum absorbeant sanguinem , Bea● . Rhe●an in Tertullian . de Corona militi● . , that Conradus Pellicanus , a man of wonderfull sanctity and learning , did finde in the first constitution of the Carthusians , That they were forbidden to possesse any vessels of price , besides a silver Chalice and a pipe , whereby the lay-people might sucke the blood of our Lord .

Durand their profound Doctor denieth l l Matrimonium non est Sacramentum strictè & pr●priè dictum , sicut alia Sacramenta novae l●gis . Durand . in lib. 4. dist. 26. quaest. 3. Matrimony to be a Sacrament properly so named , and of the same nature with the rest , or to give grace .

Robert Holcot our countrey-man , denied m m Ho●cot● ( apud Petrum de Aliaco in qu●rtum ) negat Confirmationem esse propriè Sacramentum . Cassand . Consult . art. 13 , that Confirmation was from Christs Institution ; now Bellarmine saith n n Sacramentorum a●t●orem solum Christum esse . Bella● . l. 1. de Sacram. cap. 23. , that Christ onely can institute a Sacrament o o Alphonsus de Castro advers. Hares . lib. 14. tit . unct . extrem . , Alphonsus à Castro telleth us , and that from the testimony of Iodocus Clichtoveus , and Thomas Walden , ( a bitter adversary of Wickliffes ) that Wickliffe held extreame unction , or annealing , was not a Sacrament .

Of the Eucharist .

Ockam saith p p Occam Cent●log . conclus . 39 , There are three opinions of Transubstantiation , of which the first supposeth a conversion of the Sacramentall Elements ; the second , an annihilation ; the third affirmeth the bread to be in such sort transubstantiated into the body of Christ , that it is no way changed in substance , or substantially converted into Christs body , or doth cease to be , but onely that the body of Christ in every part of it , becomes present in every part of the bread . This opinion he saith , the Master of Sentences mentioneth , not much disliking it ; yet it is not commonly holden .

Their owne Proctours and Canonists , Hostiensis and Gaufridus tell us q q Hostiensis etiam & Gaufridus , & Berengarius sup. Decret●l . firmiter credimus ; et cum Martha e●●e quod pa●is substantiam remanere dicunt ; imò potius referunt ad Confessionem Berengarij , quae fuit per Concilium approbata Durand . in 4. Sent. dist. 10 q. 1. nu. 13 , that there were divers in those dayes , who taught , that the substance of bread did remaine ; and this opinion , say they , was not to be rejected .

Durand was of opinion r r Durand . 4. di●● . ●● . qu● 1. , That the materiall part of the consecrated bread was not converted ; insomuch that Bellarmine professeth s s Bellarm. l. 3. de Euc●ar● c. 13. sententia Durandi haeretica est , licet ipse non sit dicendus haereticus , cum pa●atus fuerit Ecclesiae judicio acquiescere . , that saying of Durand is hereticall , although he is no heretike , because he is ready to submit to the judgement of the Church .

Wickliffe saith t t Wickliffe against the orders of Friers . cap. 16. , that Friers perverten the right faith of the Sacrament of the Auter , and bringen in a new heresie of an Accident withouten subject ; and whence Holy writ sayes openly , that this Sacrament is bread that wee breaken , and Gods body ; they sayen , that it is nother bread nor Gods body , but accident withouten subject , and nought ; and thus they leaven holy writ , and taken new heresie on Christ and his Apostles , and on Austin , Ierom , Ambrose , Isidore , and other Saints , and the Court of Rome , and all true Christian men , that holden the faith of the Gospell . Now for his owne opinion , he expresseth it in these termes u u Iste panis est bene , ver● , e● realiter , spiritualiter , virtualiter , & sacramentaliter corpus Christi . Wickliff . Confessio de Sacram. Eucharist . pag. 58. , that the body of Christ was really & truely in the Sacrament , in his kind , that is , Sacramentaliter , & figuraliter by way of Sacrament , & figuratively ; to wit x x Sicut Iohannes Baptista figuraliter fuit Elias , & non personaliter . Art. 4. in Sy●od . Constant. damnatus . ; as Saint Iohn Baptist figuratively was Helias , and not personally . So he saith y y Est verus panis naturaliter , & corpus Christi figuraliter , Art. 49. Oxon. damnatus . of the consecrated hoast , that it was Christs body in figure , and true bread in nature ; or which is all one , true bread naturally , and Christs body figuratively . And Wickliffe is very confident in his opinion ; for he saith z z Confess . de Sacram. Anglice pag 64. , that the third part of the Cleargy of England , would be ready to defend the same upon paine of losing of their lives , cum non fuerit materia martyrij plus laudanda , there being no better cause of Martyrdome .

Of Images and Prayer to Saints .

TO speake properly ( saith Durand ) ᵃ the same reverence and respect which is due unto the Samplar , or person represented , is not to be given to the Image , signe , or Representee , neither ought the imag● to be adored with Latria , ( or divine worship ) for any reference or relation it hath to the thing represented thereby . Holcot also a principall Schooleman , saith b b Nulla adoratio debetur Imagini ; nec licet aliquam Imaginem adorare . Holcot . in lib. Sapient . cap. 13. lect. 158 p. 524. ; No adoration is due to an Image , neither is it lawfull to worship any image ; and his reason is this ; Latria , or divine worship , is due onely unto God . But the image of God is not God , therefore Latria , or divine worship is not due unto an Image : Otherwise ( saith he ) The Creator and the creature should both be adored with one honour . By this wee see the Tenet of Thomas Aquinas controlled , who taught c c Thom. Summ. par● . 3. quaest. 25. artic. 3. , that the Crucifixe and Image of Christ was to be worshipped and adored with the selfe-same honour , to wit , of Latria , that Christ Iesus himselfe was to be honoured with .

Durand also held d d Fa●ere Imagines ad r●praesentandum D●um Pa●●em , & Spiritum s●nctum , aut v●nerari ●●s imagines ●atuum est . Vnde Damascenus dicit , qu●d insipientiae summae est , & im●ietatis figu●are quod est d●vinum● Durand . in 3. Sent. dist. 9. qu. 2. num. 15. , that it was utterly unlawfull to picture or represent the Trinity , or God , otherwise than as in Christ he tooke our flesh , and was found among us as man . Wickliffe was of opinion e e Wickliffes Apology . chap. 8. sect. 6. , that it were better to banish Images cleane out of the Church ; and to this purpose he alleadgeth that noted saying of Epiphanius ; and according to his doctrine not long after f f Wa●singam● p. 358. William N●vill , L●wis Clifford , Thomas Latimer , and Iohn Montague turned out Images out of certaine Chappels within their Iurisdictions .

Concerning prayer to Saints , whereas wee hold it vaine to pray to the Saints deceased , unlesse we might be assured that they heard and understood our prayers , and beheld the secret thoughts of our heart ; some have conceited the glasse of the Trinity , according to that of Gregory ; He that seeth God , who seeth all things , cannot but see all things in him ; but this saying is rejected by Hugo de S. Victore , as wee heard in the last age , as also by Occham g g O●●ham Dial pag. 2 tr. 1. cap. 3. ubi con●utat Iohan●em 22. H●●●sin esse pronunciat . di●e●e ; ●il●ntes Deum nulla ignorare , &c. Magist Sent. l. 2. dist. 11. accipiendum dicit d●ctum G●●gor●● , de hij● quorum cognitio beatum facit cogni●●rem , ut sunt ●a quae pe●ti●●● ad mysterium Trinitat●s . Sed haec explicatio ●●r●o Gregorij non convenit moral . 12. ● . 13. ●●llo ●odo tr●dendum est quia ●oris sit ●liquid quod igno●●nt . Cum igitur non vid●at omnia● & per consequens non Facialiter cl●rè vident Deu●● . , Scotus , and sundry other excellent men . It is true indeede , that they see God face to face . 1. Corinth. 13.12 . yet this Faciall vision maketh not the blessed Saints to know all things . Every one which beholdeth the Sunne , doth not behold every thing which the Sunne effecteth and enlightneth . The Saints know according to the capacity of creatures , and so farre forth onely as it pleaseth God , and is sufficient for their happinesse : so that this glasse of the Trinity doth not represent things according to the manner of a Naturall Glasse ; but as Speculum voluntarium ; such a Glasse as maketh reflection of such notices as God is pleased to manifest more or lesse , when , in what manner , and to what persons himselfe pleaseth . Gregorius Ariminensis resolveth peremptorily h h Greg. A●●minens . lib. 2 di●t . 9.10 . quaest. 1. ex 2. Paralipom . ex dicto Salomonis , Tu solus nos●i corda istorum hominum ; et ex libro de Ecclesiasticis Dogmatibus , Secreta cordis ill● solus novit , &c. probat nullam cre●turam ●ognos●ere cogitationes ●o●dium n●st●orum . , that neither Saints nor Angels know the secrets of our hearts , but that this is reserved as peculiar to God alone .

Besides , there wanted not some , who in this darke age of the Papacy , held it superfluous to pray to the Saints ; insomuch that Iohn Sharpe in the Vniversity of Oxford publikely disputed these two questions , of praying to Saints , and of praying for the dead i i cont●artum●ohn ●ohn Sharpe prooem . in quaestiones de orationibus sanctorum , & suff●agijs via●orum M S. in Bibliot●eca Collegij Mertonensis Oxon. Cited by D. Vsher in his answer to the Iesuit Tit. of prayer to Saints● p. 452 , especially , because it was esteemed by some famous men , and not without probability , that such suffrages and prayers were superfluous in the Church of God , although some other wise men thought the contrary .

Wickliffe also is noted by Bellarmine k k Bellar. lib. 1. de Sa●ct . B●atit . cap. 15. ex●ho ●ho . Waldensi tom. 3. tit. 12● cap. 108 & sequent . , for one that opposed Invocation of Saints . Wickliffe indeede saith as followeth Stultitia videtur sontem omn●o● par●t . orem relinqu●re , & ad rivum turbidum & remotum accedere . Quis faceret Scurram med●atorem suum , ut R●gis p●ratioris et clem●ntioris colloquio potiretur ? Wickli●fe cap. 30. Te●tij Trial. & Waldensi● tom. 3. tit. 12. cap. 111. et 114 ; It seemeth to be a very great folly to leave the fountaine which is at hand , and fetch water a farre off out of a muddy poole . Who would make a Scurra , or vaine fellow his spokesman to procure him accesse and audience in the Kings Court , the King himselfe being more courteous and easilier to be intreated , than the mediatour whom the petitioner used ? where Bellarmine m m Quib●s verbis obiter Sanctos Scurris , & rivis ●●rbidis conferebat . Bellar. 〈◊〉 citato . bids us , by the way observe how Wickliffe● compared the Saints deceased to scurrilous persons , and troubled waters ; this indeed is a shrewd imputation , but Wickliffe presently expresseth his owne meaning ; saying n n Sancti igitur incoelo licet non sint Scurrae , sed incorporati Christo per gratiam Salvatoris , tamen minus se habent in comparatione ad i●lum , quàm Scurra ad Regem terrenum . Apud Wicletum & Th. Waldens . loco citato , , The Saints in Heaven although they be no scurrilous persons , but incorporated into Christ by the free mercy of their Saviour ; yet they are lesse in comparison of him , than any meane Groome , ●ester , or Para●ite is in comparison of an earthly King . Now what great harme is there in this comparison ? Iob compared man , Yea a righteous man , to a worme ; even the sonne of man which is but a worme . Iob 25. v. 6. Yea but the word Scurra , is an odious terme ; so it is indeed as now adayes it is used . The vulgar Interpreter used the word Scurra , and Lyra expounds it de vilibus perfonis , of meane persons ; and our English translates it , vaine fellowes . Wehn David daunced before the Arke , Michal sayd to him 2 Sam. 6 . 2● . , The King uncovered himselfe to day in the eyes of his servants , as one of the vaine fellowes openly uncovereth himselfe . Howsoever , were it that p p Sanctos non esse invocandos docuit Ioannes Wiclevus , qui● scilicet & ipsi K●ave● sive scurrae , hoc ●st servi , ( vocabulo in hoc sen●u veteribus Anglis usitatissimo ) essent , non autem Ne●u●ones , ut odiose interpretatur Bellarminus Anglici Idiomatis prorsus igna●us . Gabr. pouelus in praefat. ad Acad. Oxon. ad lib. de Antichristo . Wickliffe used the Latine word Scurra , in a mollified sence , or the word Knave in the English . Time we know is the Emperour of words , and in processe thereof some of them degenerate from their first institution . Idiota at first was used for a private man , now we take it for a foole , for an Ideot . The Wise-men that came from the East , were called Magi , Math. 2.1 . Now wee may not terme them Magicians , for that were to call them Sorcerers : if one should call a King a Tyrant , it were treason , or a Wise woman Saga , hee would be hardly thought of : so among the Latines , Fur , a Theefe , when before it was a Servant .

Virgil. Quid faciant Domini audent cùm talia Fures ? When * * Theeves . Slaves thus saucy are , What will their Masters dare ?

In like sort , the word knave sounded not formerly so odiously as now adayes it doth ; for Chaucer q q The Millers tale . used it for a Servant . Goe up ( quoth he ) unto his * * Servant . knave , Cleape at his doore , * * Cleape , that is , Calls and knocke fast with a stone . And in the same sence it is used by Sir Philip Sidney in his Arcadia .

If that my man must praises h●ve , What then must I that keepe the knave ?

Now , to proceede , Wicliffe in the other comparison alludes to that of the Prophet ; r r Ier. ● . 13 . They have forsaken me , the fountaine of living waters , and hewed them out Cisterns , broken ●esternes that can hold no water : and so indeed are the purest creatures in comparison of God ; for ( as Iob saith ) he charged his Angels with folly . Iob 4.18 . Yea , the heavens are not cleane in his sight . Iob 15.15 . So that Wickliffes comparison was very fit , when he said the Saints were but like troubled waters , and them remote , and a farre off , in respect of God , who is the pure well-spring , and at hand , for as the Psalmist saith s s Psal. 145.18 . ; The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him ; yea , all such as call upon him faithfully .

Of Iustification , and Merits .

Chemninitius hath collected a number of sayings out of the Fathers and Schoolemen for proofe of Iustification by faith onely , and amongst the rest , for this fourteenth Century he produceth t t Lyra in 3. cap. ad Galat● Ad quid suit lex utilis ? quasi dicat , ●i Lex non justificavit , s●d sola fides , quare ergò posita est & datae ? Chemnit . loc. Theolog. part. 2 â de Iustificat . p. 773. the testimonie of Nicholas Lyra.

Wickliffe also taught u u Dec●everunt Apostoli sufficere ad salvationem Christianismi — fidem Domini Iesu Christi . De ver. Script . pag● 494 Maritum . Christi per se su●●icit 〈◊〉 hominem r●dimere à Geh●nna . ibid. pag. 552. De per se Sufficientiâ● intelligitur sine 〈◊〉 ca●sa 〈◊〉 ib●d. pag. 553. , that Salvation● that , the merit of Christ is able by it selfe , to redeeme all mankind from Hell , and that this sufficiencie is to be understood without any other cause concurring .

PAP .

Master Brereley saith , that the Doctrine of Iustification by onely faith , was unknowne to Wickliffe . Prot. Apol. Tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 4. subdivision , 2.

PROT.

By that which hath beene alleadged , it appeares it was knowne to him ; but what if it were not so fully knowne to him ? Wickliffe was a long time kept in the mist of popery , so that he could not by and by discerne the truth in all points ; we blame him not for that he saw no more : we blesse God for it , that he saw so much as he did , specially in this darke time of the papacie .

PAP .

Walden saith x x Waldens . tom. 3. cap. 7.8.9 . , that Wickliffe defended Humane Merits .

PROT.

The same Friar saith y y Wicklevist● d●str●●nt lib●rum arbitrium . Walden . tom. 3. pag. 24. that the Wiclevists overthrew the point of freewill ; if they tooke away freewill , how held they humane merits ? D. Iames shewes out of Wickliffes workes , that he refuted the doctrine of merit , specially in his Commentaries upon the Psalmes , where hee beareth downe z z Commentar. in Psalm . p●g 474. , those proud Pharisees , which said , that God did not all for them , but thinke that their merits helpeth .

He taught , that we are all sinners , not onely from our mothers wombe , but in our mothers wombe Infantes pe●cant in matris utero . In exposit. Decalogi . pag. 77. ; so that we cannot so much as thinke a good thought b b Comment in Psalm . pag. 109. , unlesse Iesu the Angel of the great Councell send it ; nor performe a good worke c c Ibid. pag. 423. , unlesse it be properly his good workes d d Ibid. pag. 79. , His mercie comes before us , that wee receive grace , and followeth us helping and keeping us in grace : he concludes , Comment. in Psalm . pag. 374. that it is good onely to trust in God : was this man a Pelagian ? Frier Walden would make men beleeve he was one . Howsoever , there be other of our Countriemen , Bradwardine , Occham , and Holcot , men of speciall note in this age , who speake excellently in this point .

Bradwardine , in his defence of the cause of God against the Pelagians of his time , disputeth this point at large shewing ; f f Disputat meritum non esse causam ●terni praemij : ●umque Scriptura & Doctores confirment● Deum praemiaturum bonos propter merita sua bon● , Propter , non significare caus●m propriè● s●d impropriè vel causam cognosc●ndi velordinem , vel denique d●spositionem subjecti . Th● Bradward . in summa contra P●lagian . à pag. 350. ad 353. that Merit is not the cause of everlasting reward : and that when the Scriptures and Doctors doe affirme , that God will reward the good for their good merits ( or workes : ) Propter did not signifie the cause properly : but improperly , either the cause of knowing it , or the order , or the disposition of the subject thereunto .

Occham saith , g g Quia nullus actus ex puris naturalibus , nec ex quacunque cau●a creata potest esse meritorius , sed ex gra●ia Dei voluntarie , & liber● acceptante . Ockam in prim . Sen● . dist. 17. qu est . 2. No act done in puris naturalibus , or proceeding from any created cause whatsoever , can be meritorious , but by the free promise , and acceptation of God . Holcot saith , that our workes have this worth , or value in them , not naturally , as if there were so great goodnesse in the nature or substance of the merit that everlasting life should be due unto it● but legallie , in regard of Gods ordinance and appointment : even h h Sicut parva pecunia Cupri , ex natura ●ua , siv● natu●●li valo●e , non valet tantum , quantum unus panis , sed ex institutione Principis tantum valet . Rob. Holcot in lib. Sapient . cap. 3. lect. 36. as a little peece of copper of it owne nature or naturall value , is not worth so much as a loafe of bread , but by the ordinance and institution of the Prince it is worth so much .

Richard Fitzraufe afterward Archbishop o● Armagh in Ireland , saith i i Cum aliquod genus praemij a●icui red●endum est , non propter condignitatem operis , sed propter promissionem , & sic p●opter justitiam pr●mianti● . Armachan . in quaest . Armenor . lib. 12. c. 21 that the reward is rendred , not for the condignitie of the worke , but for the promise , and so for the justice of the rewarder .

Gregorius Ariminensis concludeth peremptorily , k k Ex hoc ulterius infero , quòd nedum vi●ae aeternae , sed nec alicujus alterius praemij aete●ni vel temporalis aliqui● act●s hominis ex quacunque cha●itate●licitus , est de Cond●gno meritorius apud Deum . Greg. in 1. Sent. dist. 17. qu. 1. art. 2. that no Act of man , though issuing from never so great charitie , meriteth of condignitie from God , either eternall life , or yet any other reward ; whether eternall or temporall ; and he giveth his reason out of the Apostle , 1 Cor. 4.7 . quoniam quilibet talis actus est donum dei , juxta illud Apostoli , 1 Cor. 4. because every such act is Gods gift , every such worke is the gift of God , and what hast thou , that thou hast not received ? and if thou hast rec●ived it , why dost thou glory , as if thou hadst not received it ? Durand also is most resolute in this point l l Quod redditur potius ex liberalitate dantis quam ex debi●o operis , ●on cadit sub meri●o de cond●gno stricte et proprie accepto . Sed quicquid à Deo accipimus , sive si● gratia , sive sit g●oria , ●ive bonum temporale vel spirituale , potiùs & principaliùs accipimus exlib●ralitate Dei , quàm redd●tur ex debi●o operi●●rgo nihil penitùs cadit sub me●ito de Condigno sic accepto . Durand in 2. Sent. dist. 27 qu est . 2. sect. 12. , that which is conferred rather out of the liberalitie of the giver than out of the due of the worke , doth not fall within the compasse of merit of Condignitie , strictly and properly taken . But whatsoever we receive of God , whether it be grace or glory , whether temporall or spirituall good , whatsoever good worke we have before done for it , yet we r●ceive the same rather out of Gods liberalitie , than out of ●he debt or due of t●e worke . Therefore nothing at all falleth within the compasse of Merit of Condignitie , so taken

And m m Caus● autem ●ujus ●st , quia et ●uud quod sumus , & quod habemus , ●ive sunt boni actus , sive bo●i ●●abitus , s●u ●sus ; ●otum est in nobis ex liberalitate divina gratis dante & conservante . Et quia ex d●no gra●●ito nullus obligatu● ad dandum amplius , sed poti●s recipiens m●gis ●bligatur danti : ideo ex bonis habitibus , & ex bonis actibus , ●ive usibus nobis à Deo datis , Deus non obligaturnobis ex aliquo debito lu●●itiae ad aliquid amplius dandum , ita quòd si non ded●rit ●it i● jus●●s ; sed potiu● nos sumus Deo obligali : & sentire , seu dicere opp●situm , ●st tamerarium se● Blasphemum . Id. sect. 13.14 . the cause hereof is , ( saith he ) because both that which we are , and that which we have , whether they bee good acts or good habits , or the use of them , is wholy in us by Gods liberalitie , freely giving and preserving the same . Now because none is bound by his owne free gift to give more , but the receiver rather is more bound to him that giveth : therefore by the good habits , and by the good acts or uses which God hath given us , God is not bound to us by any debt of Iustice to give any thing more , so as if he did not give it he should be unjust ; but we are rather bound to God . And to thinke or say the contrary , is rashnesse or blasphemie : and yet the Rhemists in their Annotations upon the sixth chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrewes and the tenth verse , goe very farre in the contrary .

THE FIFTEENTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 1400. to 1500. The Benefit of Printing .
PAPIST .

WWhat say you of this fifteenth Age ?

PROT.

In this Age knowledge increased by the meanes of Printing , which was found out at Strasburg in Germany by one Iohn Guttenburg : And indeed the benefit of Printing was great ; for hereby the languages were div●lged , bookes were farre easilier now dispersed , than formerly the Manuscripts could be , and learning and good letters were generally communicated . Besides , that in this Age God raised up divers Worthies , who by their confessions , writings , and martyrdome , witnessed the truth of the Gospell , as namely Iohn Husse , and Hierome of Prague .

PA.

Were Hus and Hierome men of learning , and a godly life , and withall were they Martyrs , as you would seeme to make them ?

PRO.

Indeed they bitterly inveighed against the ambition , pride , covetousnesse and negligence of the Clergie ; they urged the necessitie of oftner preaching then was usuall in those times , and desired to have the Communion in both kinds , according to the ancient custome of the Primitive Church , and could not bee induced simply and absolutely to condemne the Articles of Wickliffe a a Er●ores Ioannis ●ss damn●ti in Concilio Constantien●i , quonia● publicè prae●icab●t ●oann●m Wicleff , vi●um Catholi●um , et authorem Evangeli●um Concil. Constant. Caranza in Summa Conc●l . , but thought many of them might carry a good sense ; and that the Author of them was a man that carried a good mind , howsoever hee might faile in some things ; and for these and the like tenets and reproofes they were burnt at Constance contrary to the publike faith , and safe conduct given by the Emperour , yea , Aeneas Sylvius ( afterwards Pope Pius the second ) saith expresly b b Placuitque Sigismun d● Imperatore suadente Ioannem & Hieronymum ad Synoduns vocari . Aen. Sylv. Hist. Bohem. cap 36. ; It was thought good by the perswasion of Sigismund the Emperour , that Iohn and Hierome should bee called to the Councell of Constance , so that they came not of their owne accord , nor yet without their warrantie and safe conduct : but the Fathers of the Counsell dealt ill with them , breaking the faith of the Emperour , and dispencing with the breach of his safe-conduct , as being of no force without theirs ; because ( forsooth ) faith was not to bee kept with Heretikes ( as th●y vainely alleadged ; ) therefore these poore men must have no priviledge of their Passe-port ; the Emperour ( saith Campian c c Casar obsignavit , Christ●mus orbis r●signavit , major Ca●sare● C●m . Rat. 4. in a flourish of his ) Sealed their Passe , but the Christian world , to wit the Councell of Constance greater than Caesar , brake up the seale , and voided the Imperiall warran● , notwithstanding the Emperour had both called the Councell , and in a Citie of his own● , where hee onely had authority ; and Wenceslaus King of Bohemia , at the request of the Councell , sent thither Iohn Hus , under the safe-conduct of the Emperour .

Now what Master Hus his learning was , his workes yet remaining doe testi●ie . Besides , hee translated the Scriptures into the Boh●mian tongue , which occasioned ( as Cochleus saith ) d d Instituit Mechanicos● qui sac●as literas in ver●a●u●am li●guam tra●sl●ta●●●●vide l●g●●t●s , ●um Sacerd●tibus c●ram plebe d●●pu●arēt● quinetiam libros 〈◊〉 mulleres . Cochleus Hist. Hussit . lib. 1. pag. 18. Artisans and Tradesmen to reade them ; insomuch as they could dispute with the Priests ; yea , their women were so skilled , as one o● them made a booke , and the Priests of the Thab●rites , were so skilled in arguing out of the Scripture , that one of them named Rokyzana , who had beene present at the Counsell at Basil , undertooke e e Vobiscum , Fr●ter dilecte , pro sancti Calici● Communione ad plebes , scripturis S. Doctorum sententij● . C●●●num deductionibus , & rationibus , gaudens & l●●t●● , vol● hab●re collationem . Epistola Rokyzanae ad lo. Capistranum . Cochl . ibid. lib. 10. pag. 370. to dispute with Capistranus , a great and learned Papist , touching Communion in both kinds , and that out of the holy Scriptures , the ancient Doctors , and the Churches Canons and Constitutions , as also from the force of naturall reason .

Aen●as Sylvius saith , f f Hut lingu● potens , & mundioris vitae opinione cl●rus . Aen. Sylv. Hist. Bohem . cap. 35. That Hus was an eloquent man , and that in the worlds estimation , hee had gained a great opinion of holinesse .

Hierome was a man of that admirable eloquence , learning and memory , that Poghius the Florentine Historian and Oratour admired his good parts ; and the same Poghius being an eye-witnesse of his triall at the Councell of Constance g g Nihil unquam protul●● indignum vi●o bono ; ut si id in ●ide sentiebat , quod verbis profitebatur , nulla in eum , nedum mortis causa inveniri justa poss●t . O virum dignum memori● , hominum sempitern● . Epist. Poghij ad Leonard . Aretin . in Fasc●c . rerum expetend . & fugiend . pag. ●53 . saith ; He was a man worthy of eternall memory , that there was no just cause of death in him ; that hee spake nothing in all his triall unworthy of a good man ; yea hee doubteth whether the things objected against him were true or no. Besides , he was so resolute at his death , that when the Tormentor kindled the fire behind his backe , he bid him make it in his sight : For if I had h h Id. Ibid. feared the fire ( said he ) I had never come hither , and so whiles the fire was a making , hee sung Psalmes , and went cheerefully to his death .

The like resolution was in Iohn Husse at his death : for whereas his enemies made a crowne of paper with three ugly devils painted therein , and this title , Arch-heretike set over ; when Iohn Husse saw it , he said , i i Acts and Monum . volum. 1 booke 6. p. 624. My Lord Iesus Christ for my sake were a Crowne of thornes , why should not I then for his sake , weare this light Crowne , bee it never so shamefull ? I will doe it , and that willingly , and so hee died constantly ; and so indeed the storie reports , k k Qu●si ad epulas invitati ad incendium properar●●t . Aen. Sylv. Hist. Bohe● . cap. 36. that they went to the stake as cheerefully , as it had beene to a banquet . Iohn Husse may seeme to have had some propheticall inspiration : for at his death hee prophesied , saying , l l Cum duceretur ad r●gum , ha●c voce● f●tidic● edidit : Post centum anno● exoriturum Cygnam , que● non sicut istum imbecillem Anserem ustulari sint Sacerd●t●s . Martin Mylius in Apotheg . Mori●●t . seu● Homo disce mori . pag. 93. You roast the Goose now , but a Swan shall c●me after mee , and hee shall escape your fire : Now Husse in the Bohemian tongue signifieth a Goose , and Luther a Swan , and this Sw●n succeeded him just an hundred yeares after : fo● so these two blessed servants of God prophesied saying , m m Ad E●is●opo●um agm●● dixisse sertur : Post c●ntum an●●s r●spondebit●s D●o & mihi . Id. Ibid. Wee cite you all to make answer , a●d after an hundred yeares to give an account of this your doing un●o God : and acco●di●gly as they foretold , it came to passe : for they suffered martyrdome in the yeare 1416. and just an hundred yeares af●er , to wit , in the yea●e 1516. the Lord raysed up Luther , who ind●ed called the Pope and his doctrine to a reckoning . Vpon this propheticall speech of Iohn Husse , there was money coined i● Bohemia , with this inscrip●ion in Latine on the one side , n n Acts and Monum . vol. 1● booke 6. pag. 770. Cintum revolutis annis Deo respondebitis et mihi , anno 1416 Hie onymus condemnatus : that is , After an hundred yeares you shall answer to God and to me : and on the o●her side of the plate was engraven , Credo unam ●ss● sanctam Ecclesiam Catholicam , anno 1415. Io. Husse , I beleeve one holy Catholike Church .

PA

Did Husse and his followers teach as you doe ?

PRO

For substance of doctrine , they taught as wee doe ; their enemies indeed misreported their doctrine , and charged them with that they never held : insomuch as Husse solemnely protested , even at the point of death , o o Cum ergo Arti●ules 〈◊〉 ●unqua● tenerim , qu●s ●alsi testes 〈◊〉 me diposu●runt , sed ●ontrarium tenu●rim , 〈◊〉 , scripse●imque & praedi●av●●im . Cochl H●st Husti● . lib 2. p● . 110. That hee never held those Articles which the false witnesses deposed against him : but held , and taught , and wrote the contra●y ; taking it upon his death , that hee taught nothing but the truth of the Gospell , which hee would then seale with his blood . Now touching their doctrine , we are driven to tak● the sca●tling of their opinions from the pens of t●eir adv●rsaries , by whom wee perceive that it is very p●ob●ble , 〈◊〉 Hussi●es were instructed , and much helped by Wickl●●ss bookes ; and accordingly wee find , that both Aen●●s Sylvius p p Ex quibus vir q●idam genere nob●li● , apud Oxoni am lit●●is studens● cum 〈…〉 , quibus de 〈…〉 preciosum 〈…〉 suae 〈◊〉 . Ae● Sylv. Hist. Bohem . cap. 35. and Cochleus report , that the meanes whe●●by ●he Bohemi●ns came to know the doctrine of Wickl●ffe was , for that a certaine noble man studying in Oxford , carried thence with hi● into Bohemia Wi●klifs bookes , de Realibus universalibus As if it had beene some rare jewell : and Cochleus saith , q q Cochl . Hist. Hussit . ● 1. pag. 8. That as a Bohemian brought first into Bohemia Wickliffes bookes , de Realibus uni●er●alibus , So there was afterwards one Peter Paine● a Scholler of Wickliffes , who after the death of his Master came ●lso into Bohemia , and brought with him W●●kliffes bookes , which were in quantity as great as Saint Au●●ines Workes ; many of which bookes Husse did aft●rwards translate into their mother tongue . Bellarmine r r Bellarm. Praefat. general . controvers . j●ynes the Wicklifists , Hussites● and Waldenses together , as holding the same points of doctrine , and reproving the same abuses of Rome . And Platina , saith , s s D●o ex sectatoribus Vigleff . ●ombusts sunt Ioann ● & Hieronymus . Pla●●na in vita Ioan. 24. that H●sse and Hierome were condemned in the Councell of Constance , as being followers of Wickliffe . Aeneas Silvius saith , t t Valden●ium sectam amplexi sunt . Aen. Sylv. Hist. Bohem. c●p. 35. the Hussites embraced the p●ofession of the Waldenses : Now wee have already showne the tenets of the Waldenses and Wickliffe . But to come to particulars ; b●sides , the Hussites , there were others also of his disciples , which were called Thaborites , u u Confess . Tabor . ● . Rokensan . An Dom. 1431. of the place Thabor , which their Generall Zisca built as a Ci●ie of refuge for his men . These Thaborites dis●ented more from the Church of Rome , a●d came indeed neerer to the puritie of the Gospell , then the rest of the Hussites . There is in Cochleus a confession of faith , made by one Iohn Pezibram a Bohemian , x x Coc●l . H●st . Hussit . lib. 6. p●g. 233. & ●ib. 2. pag. 93 who speaking of these Thaborites , recordeth these following to have beene some of their tenets ; namely , That materiall Bread remaines in the Sacrament , and herein they were very confident , insomuch as Procopius one of their Governours said● y y Quod si c●ntum forent Doc●ores , p●nem m●te●●alem in Sacra●ento non m●nere cont●stan●●s , di●o eo● omnes 〈…〉 ad collu● & fallere Cochl . lib. 6. pa. 22● . That if an hundred Doctors should hold the contrary , hee would t●ll them to their face they were all mistaken .

Th●y held , z z A●●n . Sylv de Orig. Bohem cap 35. Bellar. lib. 1. d● S●nct . Beat. c. 15. §. Deinde That the Saints now triumphant are not to be prayed unto .

H●sse his schollers after his death brake a a In omnibus civitatib●s P●age frange●tes u●ique Imagin●s in e●●dem . Cochl . lib 4. ●ag 177. downe Images in Churches and Monasteries . Prateolus saith , b b Pu●gat●rium ig●em nullih● inv●niri . Sub uti aquè specie co●ma i●●dum . P. ●eol . in El●ncl●o Haeret . 18. They denied Purgatory , and by consequent , Prayer for the dead . They maintained Communion in both kinds to be administred to the Lay-people .

They held c c N●n Papa s●d Christus est Caput Ecclesiae . Coc●l . l. 1 pag 50. That Christ is the head of the Church , and not the Pope ; as also that the Pope might erre , and that divers Popes had beene * * Ibi● . pag 52. Heretikes .

They held d d 〈…〉 est slandu● 〈…〉 & 〈…〉 se 〈…〉 Scriptu●e 〈◊〉 et novi Test●m●●●i . 〈◊〉 . li. 1. pag. 51● The holy Scriptures to bee the Iudge in point of controversie .

Lastly , Husse was condemned by the Councell of Constance , for holding , 〈◊〉 est sancta univers●l●● E●clesia , que est pr●ed 〈…〉 . C●n●● Coast●●● 〈◊〉 15. Art. 1. apud C●ranz . That the Congregation of the Predestinates , and Elect , were the Church of God , which yet was the sel●e same doctrine which Gregory the Great taught : For hee held the Church of God to consist of right Beleevers , saying , f f Se●undum 〈◊〉 sue gratiam san●●am ●cclesi●m de in 〈◊〉 p●rmansuris Sanctis construxit . Greg. in Cantic . cap. 3. tom. 2. That Christ according to the grace of his fore knowledge , hath built his holy Church of Saints , which shall continue for ever : and that g g Intra 〈◊〉 mensuras sunt omnes electi ; extra has omnes ●eprobi . Id Moral . in Iob l 28. c 9. tom. 1. All the Elect are contained within the compasse and circuit of the Church , and all the Reprobates are without : because h h Specie tenus ad ●idem Regni veniunt . Id. ibid. lib. ●5 . cap 11. they doe but only in outward shew come ●o the kingdome of grace : So that Gregory saith as well as Husse , That the Elect onely are of the Church .

Now ( as learned Doctor Field saith ) i i Richa●d Fi●ld of the Church , book 1. cha. 8. This was the meaning of Wickliffe , Husse , a●d others ; who say , that the Elect only are of the Church , defining the Church to bee the multitude of the Elect ; not for that they thinke them only to pertaine to the Church , and no others ; but because they onely pertaine unto it principally , fully , effectually , and finally ; and in them onely is found that which the calling of grace ( whence the Church hath all her being ) intendeth , to wit , such a conversion to God as is joyned with finall perseverance , whereof others failing and comming short , they are only in an inferiour , and more imperfect sort , said to bee of the Church .

PA.

Did the doctrine of Husse , and his followers continue any long time ?

PRO.

It continneth even unto this day ; for Cochleus in the yeare 1●34 , Wisheth k k Faxit Deus ut videam Hussita●um reliquia● ad per●ectam ●●●lesiae unitatem redire . Cochl . lib. 12. pag. 441. that he may see the remainders of the Hussites to r●turne to the Church , and the Germans to cast out all n●w s●cts ; whereby it is cleere , that Husses doctrine was sensibly and apparantly continued not onely unto the dayes of Luth●r ( who began not to show himselfe till the yeare 1517 ) but even after his time also .

PA.

Had the Hussites any Bishops or Priests of their owne , lawfully calle● ?

PRO.

Huss● and H●erome were Priests themselves , and whiles they lived they had Priests and Preachers ; and after their death , the●r follower , l l Nacti sunt Episc●pum Archtepiscop● S●ff●●g●neum , ordina●●runt ●er ●um Cle●●cos ●●ctae suae quotquot voluerunt . Cochl . lib. 4. pag. 168. Got them a Bishop , who was Suff●agan to the Archbishop of Prague , and by him th●y put i●to holy Orders , as many Clerkes as they would , which thing the Archbishop tooke so ill , that h●e suspended his S●ffragan . But it was not long af●er , that Conradus the Archbishop himselfe , became a follower of Husse likewise ; and under this Conrad President of the Convocation , the Hussites m m Concilium Pragense Hussitarum In nomine D●mini Amen . ●n●ipit Sancta Synodus ann. D●m● 1421. sub Conrado Archiep● civitatis pragensis &c. Cochl . lib. 5. pag. 186. held a Councel at Prague , and there they compileda Conf●ssion of their Faith , which the said Archbishop and divers Barons of Bohemia did afterwards resolu●ely maintaine . Besides Sigismund the Emperour ( in a treaty with the Bohemians ) n n S●holares Diocaesis Pragensis ad sacros ordines cons●●rabunt . Cochl . li. 8. pag. 298. Granted that the Bishops should promote to holy Orders the Bohemians , even Hussites which were of the Vniversitie of Prague .

PA.

Were there many that followed Husse , and were they of the better sort , or onely some meane persons ?

PRO.

They were neither few , nor base : had they beene few , what needed the Pope call the great Counc●l of o o O●uphrius in tabuld Concilior . 〈◊〉 Platinam . Constant●●ns● Concil. contra Hussitas . Constance against them ? What needed Pope Mart●n the fift p p ●xemplar Bullae Indulgentia●um contra Hussitas ex●at apud Cochl . lib. 6. pag● 237 publish and proclaime a Croysado against them ? promising remission of sinne to all such as did either fight against them , or contributed towards the warres . Our rich Cardinal Henry Beaufort was sent into q q Papa Martinus quintus modernus cont●a ips●s Bu●mo● cru●●atam e●●x●● hoc anno Dom 1429 sub ductu D. H●nrut 〈◊〉 S. Eus●bij pr●s●● ter● C●●dinalis , 〈◊〉 . Ep●s● Liwo●d su●●rovincial . Const. Ang● lib. 5 cap de Magistr in gl●ssa in verbo ●oan . Wicli● . Germany by the Pope in the yeare 1429 , to raise forces against the Hussites in Bohemia .

Cochleus saith , r r Qui● putasset xl . millia Eq●itum Germanicae 〈◊〉 , ●am levit●r in jugam compelli posse ? Id. Ib●d pag. ●43 . There were forty thousand German Horsemen gathered together to destroy them ; but upon their approach the Germans turned their backes and fled , not without some secret judgement of God as he thinkes .

Sylvius●aith ●aith , s s I●stituti su●t tres ex●●●cit●s , priusq●am hostis 〈…〉 ●on p●ctu d●retur , foedss●●a ●●●pta ●uga — mi●atur ●ulia●us unde hic ti●or . Aen. Sylv. hist. Bo●em . cap. 48. There were three severall Armies levied against the Hussites , entring Bohemia in three places ; but ( as th● story saith ) Non visum hostem fugerunt , they ●led before they did see the enemie ; and againe the second tim● , Priusquam hostis ullus daretur in conspectus , foedissima coepta fuga ; they fled away with shame , before any enemy came to fight , and left their Tents to the Bohemians : insomuch as Iulian Cardinal of Saint Angelo , marvailes exceedingly at this their sodaine feare , and shamefull flight .

When Pope Eugenius had sent the same Cardinal Iulian his Legate to the Councel of Basil , and presently after sent him commandment to dissolve it ; Iulian laied open unto him by letters , how great an injurie he should doe himselfe ; and brought many reasons against it , among others this , that the Bohemians , who had beene called thither , would by good right , say : t t Nonne vide●itur hic digitus Dei ? 〈◊〉 exercitus ●r●●torum ●o●ies f●g●t à 〈◊〉 corum , & nun● 〈…〉 ●u git ; 〈◊〉 nec arm●● n●c liter●s v●n . ipossu●● 〈◊〉 mira●u●●m Dei eviden●er● d●m 〈…〉 s●●●ire & nos 〈◊〉 a Epi●● Iulian C●●dinal ●d Engen . 4. Pontific●m Rom conant●m 〈◊〉 Concilium B●●ihen●● . Aen. 〈◊〉 . hist. Boh●m . ●● p. 48. Is not heere the finger of God to bee seene ? Behold Armies have so often fled from before them , and now the Vniversall Church also fl●●th behold they can neither be overcome with Armes , nor by L●arning ; this must needs appeare a miracle wrought by God , to declare that their opinion is true , and ours false .

Neith●r were the Hussites any such meane persons , for e●en the Nobles of Bohemia , sent two solemne Ambas●ages u u Iohn F●x in Con●ilij Con●tanti●●● hist●ria . to the Councel of Constance , in the behalfe of Husse ; and when the Councell neglected their request , and dealt ill with them , burning their Pastour Husse , notwithstanding his safe conduct given him by the Emp●rour ; then indeed they defended themselves und●r th● conduct of Iohn Z●scay their Ge●erall , who at one time led fo●●● tho●sand ●ouldiers into the field , x x 〈◊〉 supra 〈…〉 millta 〈…〉 convenere Aen ●ylv . hist. Bohem. cap. 38. and had such successe in his enterp●ises , that Aeneas Sylvius reports of him , That eleven times in fought battailes , hee returned Conquerour out of the field . Yea , Cochleus wondereth at the strange successe he had , saying , y y Mirae pro●ectò et fortunae & indust●iae , in bellis suit Zisca , ut vix ulla Graecorum , H●brae●●● , out Latmorum historia talem re●●rat belli du●●m , qualis Zisca ●uit . Cochl . Hist Huss . lib. 5. pag. 206. That scant any historie of the Greekes , or Latins , or Hebrewes doth mention such a Generall a Zisca was .

Now for th●ir visible Congregations , there needes no other Testimonie than this ; when the Councel of Constance had robbed them of their Minister Husse , and nimmed from them the blessed Cup of the Eucharist , which Christ had bequeathed unto them ; then the Bohemians much affected with this ill dealing , Ass●mbled themselves together neere unto Thabor Castle , and there to the number of thirtie thousand , z z Circiter triginta millia hominum convenerunt , atque i●i CCC . mensas in patentibus C●mp●s erexerunt , ex quibus p●pulo Sacramentum Cali●is ministrarunt . Cochl . ibid. lib. 4. pag. 172. having three hundred tables erected in the fields for that purpose , they received the Eucharist in both kinds .

PA.

Master Brerely saith , a a P●ot . Apol. tract. 2. chap. 2. sect. 5. The Hussites rose up in armes , and were seditious ; and Father Parsons saith , b b Parsons third Part● of the three convers . chap. 6. nu. 16 , 17 , 18. That Zisca was a rebell against his king Wenceslaus .

PRO.

The Reverend and laborius Deane of Exceter , Master Sutcliffe saith , c c Mathew Sutcliffes Answer to Parsons third part . chap. 6. booke 1. pag. 81. That the crime of rebellion is rather to be imputed to the Romish Clergie , and their adherents . For Subinco the Archbishop of Prague stirred up Sigismund against the king , as Sylvius testifieth . Hist. Bohem. c. 35. And that king was taken prisoner , first by his Barons , next by his brother Sigismund , as is testified in the same Historie c. 34. Whereas the warres of Ziscay were rather against strangers , than others ; and hapned after the Co●ncel of Constance , and the kings death . And againe , d d Math. Sutcliff . ibid. li. 3. cap. 11● pag 284. Being forced by the per●idiousnesse of the Pope and his complices , he tooke armes for his owne necessarie d●fence , and the protection of the innocent ; so that he d●fended his poore countreymen against the invasion of strangers e e Id ibid● Booke 1. ch. 2 pag● 28. And thus farre master Surcliffe .

And so I come to speake of such other worthies , as God raised up in this Age , whose Testimonies we shall have occasion to produce ; as nam●ly , Peter de Alliac● Cardinal of Cambrey , Iohn G●rson Cha●cellour of Paris , Paulus Burgensis , Alphonsus Tostatus Bishop of Avila , Thomas Walden the Englishman , Nicholas Clemangtes Archdeacon of Bayeux in France , Dionys●us Carthusianus , Cardinal Bessarion , Cardinal Cusanus , Trith●m●us Abbot of Spanheim , Wesselus Preacher at Wormes , Hierome Savonarola a Dominican of Florence Gabriel Biel , Iohn , and Francis Picus Earles of Mirandula , Laurentius Valla a Patr●cian or Senatour at Rome , Baptista Mantuan the Poet and Historian .

Iohn Gerson was a good man , and one that much desired the Reformation of things amisse , he was present at the Councel of Constance , f f Claruit personaliter in Co●cilio Constantiensi — pro ver●t●te tuend●●●ivatu● est patri●●t dignitatibus , ad civitaté Lugdunensem con●ugit . Trithem de Scriptor . Eccles. and for speaking freely therein ag●inst the Disorders of the Romane Church he was deprived of his goods and dignities by the Pope , and expulsed the Vniversitie by th● Sorhonists ; it is recorded of him , g g ●●tule ●●t ●hi ●●le digniss●mi , D. 〈◊〉 Ge●son . multos coll●giss●●ue ulos , quo● quotidie ip●e in medio corum st●ms ●ube●at ut verbis Gall●ers post ●ese in hunc ●oquerentur ●enoren Mon Dieu mon createur 〈…〉 de vestre poure se●viteur I●han Gerson . In sine quartae partia operum Gersoni● . that being thus deprived of his goods and dignities , he be●ooke himselfe to teaching of Schoole , wherein his manner was daily to cause all his Schollers , ●he little children , to joyne with him in this short Pray●r ; My God , my maker , have mercie upon thy miser●bl● servant Gerson . Iohn de Serres in his Inventory of France , in the life of Charles the seaventh saith , that Gers●n retu●ning from Basil , died for griefe at Lyons : and in the third part of Gersons workes , I find this Epitaph made on him ; — aemula turba fugat , Ast hunc dum fugeret , fovit Germania felix , Fit tibi Lugdunum posterior requies .

That is ; The envious multitude doe make him ●ly , But flying he finds r●st in Germany ; And after this at Lyons .

Touching the power of the Pope , in disposing the affaires of Princes , and their States ; Gerson sai●h , it was given unto him , by such as flattered him , and told him , h h Non est potestas temporalis vel ec●l●siastica nisi à Papa ; in 〈◊〉 ●emore scripsit Ch●is●us● R●x Regum , Dominus dominantium , de ●●jus potestate disputare instar sacril●gij est , cui neque quisquam di●e●e potest , cur i●a ●a●is ? men●●r si non inveniun●ur hae● scripta ab illis etiam qui sapientes sunt in o●ulis suis ; si non inveniuntur praet●●ea ●uisse per summos Ponti●ices haec credita . Gerson de potestate Ecclesiasti● . considerat . 12. in parte primâ oper. That as there is no power but of God , so there is none whether Temporall or Ecclesiasticall , Imperiall or Regall , but from the Pope , in whose thigh Christ hath written , King of Kings , and Lord of Lords ; of whose Power to dispute , is Sacrilegious boldnesse , to whom no man may say , Sir , why doe you so ? though he al●er , overturne , waste and confound all States . Let me be judged a lyar ( saith he ) if these things be not found written , by them that seeme wise in their owne eyes , and if some Popes have not given credit to such lying and flattering words ; yea he saith , i i Etiam usque ad imitationem Lu●i●●ri ut ad●rari velint sicut Dij . Gerson in parte prima post tractatum de unitate ecclesiastic● addit quatuor co●siderationes ad ●ulcimentum praem●ssarum ; in qua●tâ consid. haec verba hab●ntur . That in imitation of Lucifer , they will be adored and worshipped as gods ; not enduring whatsoever they doe , that any one should aske them why they doe so , they neither feare God , nor reverence men .

Gerson denied the infallibilitie of the Popes judgement , and taught , k k Cum summus Pontifex sit peccabilis . Id. de potest . Eccles. considerat . 11. That he was subject to errour , and that in case of errour , or other scandalous misdemeanour , he may be judicially deposed ; and to this purpose hee wrote a treatise De auferibilitate Papae ; l l Libellus de aus●ribilitate Papae in parte prim● , oper. Gerson That the Pope might be safely taken away from the Church , and yet no danger follow of it .

Gerson sheweth , m m Nulla ●ff●nsa Dei est venialis de se , nisi tantummodo per resp●ctum ad divinam misericordiam 〈…〉 vult de ●ac●o quamlibe● offensam imput●re ad mo●tem , cum ill●d p●sset justissime . Gerson de vi●a ●pirituali animae . lect. 1. part. 1. that all sinnes , Even they that seeme least and lightest , are by nature mortall .

Touching Indulgences or pardons ; whether the power of the Keyes extend on●ly , to such as are on earth , or to them also that are in Purgatorie , the opinions of men ( saith n n Vtrum verò claves ecclesiae se p●ssint ●xtendere non solum super terram , sed sub te●râ in purgatorio , sunt opiniones ad utramque partem probabiles ; & favorabile est dicere quod sic , saltem per indirectum propter communionem in charitate . Gerson . de Indulgent . Consideratione 11. parte primâ oper. Gerson ) are contrarie and uncertaine : but howsoever , this hee pronounceth confidently , o o Idem ibid. Consid 8. That onely Christ can give such Pardons for thousands of dayes and yeeres as many Popes assume to th●mselves power to grant . So that in Gersons time it was not resolved , whether the power of the Keyes extended onely to such as are on earth , or to them also that are in Purgatorie : yet hee sayth , it might bee favourably construed , that they reached to them in Pu●gatorie , at least Indir●ctly .

Concerning their Priests and Votaries , hee saith , p p Oculos aperite & inquirite , si q●ae hod●è Claus●ra Montalium fact● sunt quas● prosti●u●a Meretricū-Ger●on De●la●atio defectuum virorum E●clesiasticorum . part . 1. oper. That their Cels and Nunneries were like Brothel-houses , and common stewes . Gerson seeing there was small hope of reformation by a Generall Councell , wisheth q q Provideant sib● dum s●ive●int et po●ueri●● membra per provin●ias aut Regna . Gerson in Dial. Apologet . de Concilio Const●ntiensi in p●rte 1. ope● . that severall kingdomes and Provinces would reforme and redresse things amisse ; and accordingly the severall parts of Christendome in the West , as the Churches of England , Scotland , France , and Germany have made reformation .

PA

Gerson was present at the Councell of Constance , and there preached against the Articles of Wickliffe , and the Bohemians ; if Wickliffe make for you , Gerson doth not ; for Gerson condemned Wickliffes opinions .

PRO.

D. Field in his Appendix . fi●st part . pag. 85 , 86 , 87. Gerson preached against such Articles as Were brought to the Councell of Constance , by the English and Bohemians ; now those Articles were many of them impious , in such sort as they were proposed by them , that brought them : as that s s Concil. Constantiense Sess. 8. God must obey the d●vill : that Kings or Bishops , if they fall into mortall sinne , cease to be Kings or Bishops any longer , and that all they doe is meerely void . Whereas Wickliffe never delivered any such thing , nor had any such impious concei● , as they sought to fasten on him : neither is it to be marvelled at , that impious things were falsely and slaunderously imputed to him , seeing wee are wronged in like sort at this day For Campian is not ashamed to write , t t Campian Rat●o● . ● . That wee hold God to be the Author of sin , and that all sinnes are equall in Gods sight ; and Bristow saith , u u B●istow Motive 39. p●g. 151. Antuerp . 1597. That Protestants are bound to avoid all good workes ; which tenets wee utterly disclaime and detest : and many things no doubt were writ●en by Wickliffe and Husse , and others , in a good and godly sense , which as they are wrested by their adversaries , were hereticall and damnable . So then Gerson might condem●e as imp●ous , s●me posi●ions falsely imputed to Wickliffe , not knowing but that they were his , and dislike other that indeed were his , as not delivered in such sort , and such forme of words , as was fit , or savoring of too much passion and violence ; and yet for all this , both Gerson and Wickl●ffe be good men , and worthy guides of Gods Church in their times .

And so I come from Gerson to Cameracensis , from the Scholler to the Master ; for Petrus de Alliaco is willingly and respectfully acknowledged x x In Epistol à ad P●trum Episcopum Cameraci●s — tuus d●●cipulus Ioannes Cácellarius ●●dig●us E●●l●siae Parhisiensi● . — S●ripsit super hoc Reveren●●ssimus Pater D. Cardinalis Cameracens . Praeceptor m●us in●litus . Gerso● . Se●m . pro Vi●gio Regis Rom p●rt . 1. by Gerson to have been his Tutour and Instructer .

Petrus de Alliac● , gave a T●act to the Councell of Constance , touching the Reformation of the Church : y y P●tr●●e Alliaco Card. Cam●rac . de Re●ormatione Ecclesiae libellus ●biatus primo●ibus Ec●lsiasticts in ●ōcllio Constaī●tensi c●ngregatis . E●tat . in Fase . ●e●urn expet . & fug . pag. 206. &c. there doth hee reprove many notable abuses of the Romanists , and giveth advise how to represse them ; this treatise of the Cardinals is extant in Orthuinus . Gratius his Fasciculus rerum expetendar●● & fugiendarum , paginâ 206. &c. There should not be multiplyed ( saith hee ) z z Quod in Ecclesiss ron tam m●gna imaginum varietas multiplicaretur , non tot nova Festa solemnizarentur , &c. P●t . de Alliac . de reform . Eccles. consid. 3. such variety of Images and Pictures in the Church , there should not be so many Holy dayes , there sh●uld not bee so many Saints canonized ; a a Maximè vid●tur necessarium quod dim●nu●rentur Religiones Ordinum M●ndicantium ; eorum s●atus onerosus hominibus , dānosus Hospitalibus ac alijs verè pauperibus . — adeo ut jam horrendum quorundam proverbium sit , Ad hunc s●atum venisse E●clesians , ut non sit digna regi nisi pe● reprobos Id. Ibid consid. 4. such numbers , and variety of religious persons is not expedient● there are so many orders of begging Friers , that their state is burthensome to men , hurt●ull to Hospitals , and to the poore . He saith , that it was then a Proverbe , The Church is come to that estate , that it is not worthy to be ruled , but by Reprobates : yet withall he concludeth , b b Id. Ibid. considerat 6. apud Orth. Grat. pag. 208. That as there were seven thousand , who had not bowed to Baal ; so it is to be hoped there bee some , which desire the reformation of the Church .

Now also lived Archdeacon Clemangies , who in a set treati●e , freely painted forth the corrupt state of the Roman c c Liber de corrupto statu Ecclesiae . Church .

He wrote an Epistle to Gerard Maket , d d Non mentis tantum affectu à Babylone descedendum , sed etiam pedib●s corporis . Nam qui de tali loco hoc praecipit , quid de illo put●s ●uisse dictur● in quo non modo sanam doc●●inam non recipiunt sed acerbissime insecta●tur , si qu● corun●oluntatibus , imo verò in sanijs ad versetur ? Nic. de Clumāgijs epist. ad Gerard● Maketi , doctorem Paris . p. 174. a Doctor of Paris ; the argument whereof is this : That w●e are not onely to depart from Babylon with our affections , but with our bodily fecte : now hee that commands this of such a place , what dost thou thinke ( saith the same Clemangies ) hee would have said of that wherein not onely sound doctrine is not received , but where such are cruelly persecuted , as contradict their w●ls , yea rather their madn●sse ? Speaking of their votaries , hee saith , Puellarum Monasteria , V●●eris execranda prostibu●● — ut idem sit hodi● puellam velare , quod & publice ad scortandum i●pellere . Clemang . de corrupto statu Eccles Sect. 2. p. 22. What I p●ay yo● are Numeries now a dayes , but Br●thel-houses and common Stews : the harbours of wanton men , where they satisfie their lusts ? that now the vayling of a Nunne , is all one , as if you prostituted her openly to bee a Whore . Hee spoke excellently also in the matter of Generall Councels , and so did Cardinall C●sanus , who treating of Councels , and the Pope , delivereth these positions following .

That f f Sed a● universale Concil●um pr●priè captum , sit suprà R●manum Pontifi●● , creò● dubium esse non debere . C●san . de Concordanti● Catholic● . lib. 2. c. 17. it is without all question , that a Generall Councell properly taken , is both superiour to the rest of the Patriarkes , and also to the Roman Pope .

I beleeve ( saith Cusanus ) g g Id. Ibid. lib. 3. cap. 15. that to be spoken not absurdly , that the Emperour himselfe , in regard of the ●are and custody of preserving the faith committed unto him , may Praeceptive indicere Synodum , by his imperiall authority and command assemble a Synode , when the great danger of the Church requireth the same , Negligen●e aut contradicente Romano Pontifice , The Pope either neglecting so to doe , or resisting and contradicting the doing thereof .

Hee saith , h h Rom●num Pont. in condendis statu● is generalibus ●am non habere potestatem quam quidam adul●tores eidem contribuunt ; ●ilicet , quod ipse tantum statuere habeat , alijs consulentibus . Id. Ibid lib. 2. cap. 12. That the Romane Bishop hath not that power which many flatterers heape upon him ; to wit , that hee alone is to determine , and others only to consult or advise .

Whiles we defend ( saith Cusanus ) i i Dum hanc partem defendimu● , quod Papa non e●● universalis Ep●scop●s , sed super al●os primus ; & sacr●rum Concili●rum non in Papà , sed in consensu omnium vigorem fundamus ; tùnc quia veritatem defendi●us , & unicuique suum honorem reserva●us , recte Papa● honoramus . 99. Dist. Ecclesiae . Cusan . Ib. c. 13. That the Pope is not universall Bishop , but only the first Bishop ●ver others ; and whiles wee ground the power of sacred Councels upon the consent of the whole assembly , and not upon the Pope , wee mai●●taine truth , and give to every one his due honour : and then concluding the former positions , the Cardinall saith : k k Idem cap. 15. I observe little or nothing in ancient Monuments which agreeth not to these my assertions . Now also lived Laurence Va●la a learned man , and a most excellent Divine ( as Trithemi●s calleth him ) l l Theologus praes●antiss . Trith . quò suprà . hee was a Roman Patrician , and Chanon of the Cathedrall Church of Saint Iohn of Laterane in Rome : hee wrote a treatise of purpose against the forged donation of Constantine , whereby the Pope challengeth his pretended Iurisdiction

Hee pronounceth of his owne experience , m m Papa & ipse bella pacatis populis infert & inter civitates principesque discordias se●it ; Papa & alien●● fitit opes & su●● absorbet , rem Ecclesiasticam , & spiritum sanctum quaestui habet — Recentes vero P●ntifices id viden●ur lab●rare , ut quantum pris●● suere sapientes & sancti , tant●m ipsi & impij sint e● stu●ti . Lau●ent . Vallens . de falso creditâ , & ementi●● Constanti●i Donatione D●clamatio . extat . in Fascie . rerum . expetend . & fugiend . pa. 78 , 79. That the Pope himselfe doth make warre against peaceable people , and soweth ●iscord betweene Cities and Princes ; that the Pope makes gaines , not onely of the comm●n wealth , but even of the state Ecclesiasticall , and of the h●ly Ghost , a●d that later Ropes laboured to bee as foolish and wicked , a● the ancient ones were holy and wise . For this and the like freenesse of his speech and p●●● hee was d●iven into exile by the Pope . I know indeed that Master Brereley is offended with us for challenging Cus●●●● and Valla , as witnesses on our behalfe : and therefore hee would make his Reader beleeve , n n Prot. Apology in the Authors advertise●ent . that Valla being an eager enemy to the Pope , can not bee an indif●erent witnesse , but rather a partie ; and that both o● them retracted their opinions , and submitted themselves to the Catholike Church , and so they might without yeelding to the Romish faction : hee saith they retracted , but hee cannot tell when , or before whom this Recantation was made or written , perhaps it is written on the backe side of Constantines Donation .

Neither have wee corrupted Valla , to make him a partie for us : hee was an honest man , and we take his testimony as it is recorded , and commeth 〈◊〉 our hands ; he was not an enemy to the Pope , but to the forgeries of the papacie : and this madethem billet his name amongst such bookes as are forbidden , and o o In I●dice prohibit●rio Pij quarti autho●itate ●dit . Pag. 81. prohibited .

In the later end of this age lived Baptista Mantuanus , and Franciscus Picu● , Ea●le of Mirandula : the Oration of Picus in the Councell of Lateran is extant : wherein , besides his taxing the behaviour of the Clergie , hee useth these words : p p Piet●s in superstitio●●● penè pr●●●●uit . Io●n . Franc. Pici Mirand . de Reformand . morib . Oratio ad Leon. 10. & Concil. Latera● . tom. 2. That piety is almost sunke into superstition .

Hee held not the Popes sentence for an infallible Oracle of truth : for hee saith , that if the greater part offer ( as was done in the Councell at Ariminum , which stood for the Arrian heresie ) to decree ought agains● the Scriptures ; wee are not in this case to follow the most voices , but to joyne our selves with the lesser numb●r , being sound in faith : Yea we are rather ( saith he ) q q Quinimo simpl●●i po●ius Ru●●ico , & in●anti , A●●●ulae , quam & Pontifici Maxima● & mille Episcopis credendum , si cont●a Evangelium ●sti illi p●o Evangelio verba ●a●erent . Ioan Franc. P●●us Mirand Theorem . 16. to . 2. to beleeve a plaine countrey●man , a child , or an old woman , if they speake according to the Scriptures , rather than the Pope , and a thousand of his Prelates speaking against the word of God .

That the Pope may erre , hee sheweth by this Similitude● r r Fieri autem potest , ut ●t vicarium caput aegrote● , quemadmodum & naturale , & sicuti noxios hoc humores , ita illud prava d●gm●●a immittat in corpus , quod cum accidit , pro medelà laborandum , & si desperatur sa●us ab●●nd●n ●umcapi●●s au●●m malè sani & deliri ●ōt●gia vitanda sunt , ne & ipsi artus pestilenti humore tabe●ie●ent . Id. de ●ide & ordine Credendi . Theorem . 25. Even as the naturall head may be sicke , and noysome humours may flow from the braine into th● body : Even so this Deputy-head ( to wit ●he Pope ) may be sicke , and from hi● head-ship naughty opinions ( saith hee ) may bee derived and conveied in●o the body of the Church .

Hee was one who desired the Churches reformation : for in the foresaid Oration in the Lateran Councell , hee wisheth Sacra literae vtriusqu● Instrumenti rec●gnoscend●e , & c●m a●tiq●●● & castigatis prim●ve originis exemplaribus ●onserende , ut ab er●at●● purgentur — ver● historiae ab Apo●ryph●s nugis segregand●e . O●●tio ●ici . in Fasci● . ●er expet . & fugìend . pag 210. , That the copies of the old and new Testament were compared with the ancient and best Originals , and purged from such faults , as they have contracted through tr●ct of time , or the neglect of the Transcribers ; and that the true and authenticke Histories were severed from the Apocryphall .

Baptista Mantuan was a famous Poet and Historian , and Prior of the Carmelite Friers : he is commended by Trithemius t t Sacrae The●logiae Docto● ; Philosophus insig●is . Tri●hem de Scriptor . Eccles. verbo B●pt . Mantuan for a great Divine , and an excellent Philosopher , he is very sharpe against the Romanists , as may appeare by these few instances following ; u u Mantuan de calalamit . tempor . lib. 3. tom 2. Tyrij vestes ; venalia nobis , Templa ; Sacerdotes , Altaria , Sacra , Coronae , Ignis , ● hura , Preces ; Coelum est venale , Deusque●

That is ; Temples and Priests , Altars and Crownes , they sell for pelfe ; Fire , Frankincence , Prayers , Heaven , and God himselfe .

Whereby he ( haply ) meant , their breaden God in the Masse .

Mantuan saith Mantuan de Calam. temp●r . lib. 3. pag. 61. as followeth , of Hilarie a married Bishop ; and Bishop of Poictiers in France . Non nocuit ●ibi progenies , non obstitit uxor , Legitimo conjuncta thoro , non herruit illâ Tempestate Deus thalamos , connubia , taed●s .

That is ; Thy off-spring was no prejudice to thee , Nor could thy lawfull wife an hindrance be : In those dayes God allow'd the Marriage bed To Priests ; their cradles , and the lamps which led To Hymens rites .

Of the Woman Pope he saith as y y Mantuan . lib 3. in Alphonso , pag. 26. to . 3. followeth ; Hic pendebat adhuc , sexum mentita virilem Foemina , cui triplici Phrygiam diademate mitram Extollebat apex , & Pontificalis adulter .

That is ; Here yet her statue hung ; who faign'd Her selfe to bee a man ; who 's fam'd The Purple-triple Crowne t' have bore , And last was prov'd a Popish Whore .

Where it may bee , the Poet meant th●t at that time there remain●d the Statue or Picture in Rome , resembling the Woman Pope travailing with Child ; or the statue or seate , whereon the new Pope sate , to try that he was a man , and no woman , according to that of Henry Stephens , in his Apologie for Herodotus . Cur etiam nostro jam hic mos tempore cessat ? Ante probet quod se quilibet esse mar●m .

The same Mantuan glanceth at their manner of such frequent repetitions , as they used in their Prayers ; as if God were served by reckoning up their z z M●ntuan . lib. 4. Alphonsi . Muttering upon a pay●e of Beades , for so he termeth it . Qui filo insertis numerant sua murmura baccis .

Now also lived Iohn of Vesalia , a Doctor and Preacher at Wormes ; he held , a a V●●m textum expone●do per alium , Doctorum Scriptu , etiam sanctorum quantum cunque nec glosse ●r●di●● So●a Dei grati● salv●ntur E●ec●i ; Indulgent●a● nihil esse credit ; Per●grinantes ●om●m fatui sunt . P●ral●ipom . Abbatis Vrsp●rgens . That the best Interpreters o● the Scriptures expound one place by another , because men obtaine not the spirit of Christ , but by the spirit of Christ . That the Doctors , be they never so holy , are not to be beleeved for themselves , and the Glosse as little . That , the Elect are saved onely by the mercie of God . That Popes Indulge●ces , auricular Confession , and Pilgrimages to Rome a●e vaine . For holding these and the like propositions he was sharply handled by the Inquisitours ; he is charged by Parsons , but unjustly , to have held the old errour of the Gre●kes , b b Math. Sutcliff●s Answer to Parsons t●ird p●rt of the three convers . booke 1 chap● 3. Who deny the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Sonne , as well as the Father .

There lived at the same time ( but somewhat younger ) Doctor Wesellus of Gronning in Friz●land , hee was called Lux Mundi , the light of that Age. He wrote a set treatise of Papall Pardons and Indulgences ; and therein he saith ( grounding his speech on Gersons testimonie ) that c c Liquet ig●tur ex vene●a●i●● huju● vi●i sententia , i●●ulge●tia● Pap●les non ●am ●e●t●m si●num remiss●●●●● esse quàm perfectam 〈◊〉 ri●ionem cordis inter hoc 〈◊〉 lares contriti . Wess●l de po●estate Rom. in Indulgent . cap. 4. pag. 579. Papall Indulgences and Pardons are not so sure a token of the remiss●on o● a mans sinne , as is the true contrition of heart . He saith , that d d Doctores antiqui nihil expressè scripserunt , quia 〈◊〉 abusus nondum temporibus Augustini , A●bro●ij , Hi●r●●●mi , Gregorij ●●repserat . Id. Ibid. c. 7. The ancient Doctors wrote nothing expressely of Popes Pardons , because this abuse was not crept into the Church , in the dayes of Saint Austine , Ambrose , Hierome , and Gregorie● And having consulted both with Civilians and Canonists , he cannot find them to make Iubilees , and Pardons , ancienter than Pope Boniface the eight , who lived about the yeare 1300.

It is now time to looke homeward , and to acquaint the Reader with our home-bred Confessours and Martyrs . I will begin with the raigne of King Henry the fourth , who was ( I take it ) the first English King that put any to death for denying the Romish doctrine : for after that Richard the second was deposed , and that this Henry came violently to the Crowne , he was willing to keepe in with the Clergie , who in those times ba●e great sway .

In this Kings raigne , Acts & Monuments , Booke 6. pag. 515. volum . 1 William Sawtree a Priest , was burnt for denying the reall presence ; and so also was Iohn Badby burnt , for being a Wicklevist , or Lollard , as they termed i● . William Thorpe , Priest , and Iohn Purvey , were persecuted for the doctrine of the Sacrament . Waldensis call●d this Purvey , The Lollards Library , and a Glosse upon Wickliffe .

Now these men f f Gabr. Powel . in Praefa● . ad lib. de Antic●●isto● were not voyd of Learning and knowledge , for Sawtree was an Oxford Divine , Thorpe was Fellow of our Queenes Colledge in Oxford ; Purvey was Master of Arts in Canterbury Colledge , and wrote a Commentarie on the Apocalypse whiles he was in Prison .

In the time of King Henry the fifth● Sir Iohn Old Castle was a chiefe Favourer of the Wickliffians . This Sir Iohn , by his Marriage contracted with a Kinswoman of the Lord Cobhams of C●uling in Kent , obtained the title thereof . Hee was ( as Frier Walsingham a peevish enemy of his , saith ) g g Erat iste Ioannes fortis vi●b●s , ope●i Ma●tio sati● id●neu● . R●gi prop●e● probitatem ch●rus & acceptu●● sed tamen propter haere●●cam pravitat●m valde suspectus . Walsing . in Henr. 5. pag. 382. A very valorous Gentleman , and in specia●● favour with his Prince , for his honest Conversation , though held in some jealousie in point of Religion .

He wrote his beliefe which was very Christian-like , but the Prelates accepted not of it ; so that divers crimes were devised against him , and at last he was pronounced an Hereticke in the poynt of the Sacrament , and was executed by the Statute of Lollardie .

Walsingham saith , h h Ecce domi●e Ioannes in hac schedula vestrâ plu●a ●ona continen●ur , ac satia Catholica , sed habens terminum ad responde●dum super ali●s . Id ibid pa 383. That this Sir Iohn being brought before the Arch-bishop of Cante●bury , he tooke out of his bosome A copie of the Co●fession of his Faith , and delivered it to him to reade , which the Arch-bishop having read , said , That it contained in it much good and Catholicke matter ; but yet hee must satisfie him touching other poynts : the same Walsingham saith● that i i Ali●erqu● se●tit et docet de Sacramenti● Altaris , & Poenitentiae , Pe●eg●inationibus , & adorationibus im●ginum , ac clavibus , quàm Romana Eccl●sia docet & affirmat . Ibid. It was alleadged against him , that he held and taught , touching the Sacrament of the Altar , and Penance , Pilgrimages , Adoration of Images , and the Power of the Keyes , otherwise than the Church of Rome taught .

saith ) p p La q●al mo●te suppo●●●ta 〈…〉 ●onstante . 〈◊〉 lib. 3 p 93. They constantly endured their death . Whiles Savonarola was in durance hee wrote excellent meditations upon the Psalmes ; and therein in the matter of free Ius●ification he is very sound , and cl●are on our side . The E●le of Mirandula accounted him an holy Prophet , and d●s●nded him , and his Writings : the like also did that rare Scholler Marsilius Ficinus . Philip de Commi●●es that ●xcellent States-man , and Histo●ian , was well acq●ainted with him , and had often conference with h●m : For my part ( saith hee ) q q 〈…〉 p. 338. I hold him to bee an honest man , and a good : hee co●nted him also to have had the spirit of p●ophecie , r r 〈…〉 . Id. I●id Ch●pit●e 53. inasmuch as hee foretold many things , which in event ●roved true , yea such thi●gs as no mortall man could naturally have knowne ; For hee foretold the French King my Master ( saith Comminees ) that after his sons death , the King himselfe should not long survive him ; and these his Letters to the King my selfe have read .

PA.

Parsons saith , s s The 〈◊〉 p●●t of the t●ree Co●ve●s . Chap. 9. nu. 9 , 10 . 11●12 . That Savonarola was put to death for moving and maintaining of sedition in the Common-wealth of Florence , though in all matters of Religion he agreed fully with the Catholike Roman Church .

PRO.

What his Religion was , let his owne workes testifie : Guicci●rdine saith , t t 〈◊〉 Do●t●ina sua 〈…〉 Catolica . 〈…〉 li● 3. pag. 94. that among●● other things h●e was charged , That his doctrine was not fully Catholike , hee meaneth Roman Catholike ; and Comminees saith , 〈…〉 , q●id 〈…〉 Fre●e 〈◊〉 l' appellant he●●t●que . Phil. Comm●es , C●●nique du Cha●les 8. cap 5. That one of the Frier Minorites , his professed adversary , charged him to be an Heretike ; so that in his opinion , he was not in each point a Roman Catholike . And to take the Popes proces●e which was published against him , as wee find it in Guicciardine ; Therein it is given out , that Savonarola had a holy desire , x x ●he per opera sua si ●onvo●●ss● il Con●ilio u●iv●●sa●e● nel qual● 〈…〉 stata d●lla 〈…〉 Hist. 〈…〉 pag. 95. that by his meanes a Generall Councell might be called , wherein the corrupt customes of the Clergy might bee reformed , and the estate of the Church of God , so farre wandred , and gone astray ( might bee reduced , so farre forth as was possible ) to the likenesse of that it was in the Apostles time , or those that were neerest unto them , and if he could bring so great and so profitable a worke to effect , hee would thinke it a farre greater glory , then to obtaine the Pope-dome it s●lfe : in the same Processe it is contained , y y

Disprezzato i●commandamenti d●l ponte●ice , aff●rmando le cen●ure publi●ate contro lu●●ss●re i●ju●te ●t invalide . Id. ibid. pag. 94.

Non per revelatione divina , ma per opinion● propria fondata sulla do●trina , & oss●rvatione dell● Scrittura sacra . Ibid. pag. 95.

how hee despised the Popes commandements , and returned publikely to his ol● office of preaching , affirming that the ( Pop●s ) censures published against him were unjust and of no force : as also that the matters by him prophesi●d , were not pronounced by divine revelation , but by his proper opinion grounded upon the doctrine , and observation of holy Scripture .

And now let the Reader consider by that which Guicciardine reports of Savonarola , and namely touching the opinion he had of the Popes authoritie , and his excommunications ; touching generall Councels , and the deformitie and degeneration of the Churches state , in respect of antiquitie ; as also what Comminees saith , of his preaching of the Reformation of the Church , and that by the Sword as formerly our Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne foretold , and then let him judge of what profession he was likely to be .

Now for the poynt of faction and sedition : It is true inde●d that there was a great faction in Florence , not onely amongst the Laity , but the Spiritualty al●o ; but it doth not appeare that Hierome , was the Author or nourisher of this discord , or that he had any hand in that tumult z z Amazzarono Francesco ●alori p●imo dé fauto●i d●● Savonarola . Id. pag 95. wherein Francisco Valori , a principall favourer of Savonarola , was slaine .

When Saint Paul preached the Gospel in Asia , the whole Citty of Eph●sus was full of confusion , and they rushed into the Common place , and caught Gajus and Aristarchus , Pauls companions of his journey . Act. 19. ver. 29. Was Paul , or his companions the occasion of this tumult ? Savonarola preached the word of God in Florence , his adversaries tooke Armes , entred the Monasterie of Saint Marke where hee was , and drew him , and two of his brethren , Dominick and Silvester , out of the Covent , and put them into the common prisons , upon occasion of a mutinie in the Citie ; but Hierome and his f●llowes occasioned not this tumult .

It was indeed p●●tended tha● he sided with the one faction in Florence , but Philip de Comminees ( who knew him better than Pa●sons ) toucheth that which brought the Fr●er to the s●ake ; nam●ly , In that hee proph●sied , and that so vehemently and freely of the comming in of forraine forces , and of a King that by force of Armes should reforme the corrupt state of the Church , and chastise the Tyrants of a a Et dis●it que l●●oy 〈…〉 de Die● pou● r●●orme● l' Eglise par for●e , chastier les t●rans . Et ●●au●e de ce 〈◊〉 disoi● seavo●r les 〈◊〉 par revelaton● mu●m●r●●nt plu●ieurs contr● 〈◊〉 , & ●●q●ist la ●ayn . du Pape & d● plu●i●urs d● la vill● de Floren●e . P●●l de Comine●s , cap. 5●● qu● su●●à . Italy : this was it ( saith he ) which made the Pope , and the state of Florence hate him .

Thus have we heard of his life and death , there remaineth nothing now but his Epi●aph , wherewith Flaminius , a famous Poet of Italy hath honoured him .

And thus it is , Dum fera fla●ma tuos Hieronyme pascitur artus . Religio flevit dilani●ta comas , Flevit , et , ô , dixit , crudeles parcite flammae , Pa●ite , sunt isto viscera nostra rogo .

That is , Whiles Hi●rome to the firy stake was led , Religion tore her haire , and wept , and said , You cruell flames , oh spare this tender heart , For whiles he burns , Religion feels the smart .

And so I proceed to the severall points in question .

Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon .

Ge●son b b Secun●●m scripturam ●acram divinitus re●elat● regulari debet judicium de 〈…〉 subditorum ; ●uoniam ●ectu● ju lex est su● & obl●qu● . Ge●son . de Potest ec●lesi●st . conside●at . 13. ●art . 1. op●r . makes the word of Christ the sole authenticall ground of faith , and the onely infallible rule to decide controv●rsies . The Scriptures ( saith he ) c c S●●iptura nobis tradita● est , tanquam Regula suffi●iens & in●●llibili● , pr● r●gim●n● 〈◊〉 ●ccl●si●stici corporis , in●●br●rumqu● in f●ne●● se●u● Gerson . de examin● . Doct● . Consid. 1. is given unto us , as a sufficient and infallible Rule , for the governement of the whole body of ●he Church , and each part thereof unto the end of the world .

What evill ( saith the same Gerson ) d d Quid autem mali attulerit contemptu● sac●ae S●ripturae utique sussi●●ētis p●o regimin● E●●l . ali●quin Ch●●s●us fuisset Legislator imperfectus . Gers. Se●m in die Circumcis . Cōcid . 1 part 1 hath followed upon the contempt of holy Scripture , which doubtlesse is sufficient for the government of the Church , for otherwise Christ had beene an unperfect Law give● , exper●e●ce will teach .

That Wickliffe affirmeth , that n●ither Friers nor Prelates may define a●y thing in matters of faith , unlesse they have the au●hority of sacred Scripture , or some speciall revelation , I dislik● not , saith Waldensis , e e Ved●tur infer●● quod nulli fratr●s ●el Praelati quidq●am debeant in mate●ià fi●ei de●mire , nisi ad hoc habu●●●●t Scripturae autho●itatem , v●l revelationem à spirit● sancto spec●●l●m , — in Scrip●ura sa●ra est sinaliter qui●scendū , — non vitupero v●am datam , sed lat●nt●● d●mn● proterviam . W●ldens . Doct●inal . Fid●i lib 2 cap. 19. tom. 1. but his waywardnesse and craft I condemne , and thinke it necessary ( lest wee wrest the Sc●●ptures , and erre in the interpretation of them ) to follow the ●radition of the Church , expounding them unto us and not to trust to our own private & singular conceits . This is that which Vincentius Lirinensis long since delivered .

Alphonsus Tostatus saith , f f Qua●quam is●i libri ab Eccle●ia recipiantur ●oll●us ●uctoritat is solide sunt ; id●o ad confirmandum & probandum , ●a quae in ●●●bi●● venerint inutiles sunt Tostat. p●aefat . in lib●● Paralipom . q. 2. Although the bookes ( in question ) bee received of the Church , yet are th●y not of any solide au●hority ; and th●refore they are improfitable to prove , and confirme those things which are called in question , according to Saint Hierome .

Thomas Waldensis cites out of Hierome , the Can●n of the old Testament in these words : g g In 22. volumina supputantur quibus q●●si literis et exordijs in Dei D●ctrina &c. Wald. doct. fide● . lib. 2 Art. 2● circa initium . As there are tw●nty two letters , by which we write in Hebrew all that we speake ; so there are accounted twenty two bookes , by which as letters , wee are instructed in the doctrine of God ; and withall addeth ; That the whole Canonicall Scripture is contained in the two and twenty bookes .

Dionysius Carthusi●nus in writing upon Ecclesiasticus , saith , h h Denique lib●r iste non est de Canone id est inter s●ripturas Canoni●as cōputād●● quamvis de ●●us ve●itate n●● dubitatur Di●nys Carth. prolog . in Ecclesiast. That booke is not of the Conon ( that is ) amongst the Canonicall Scriptures , although there be no doubt made of the truth of that booke . This is likewise confessed by Pererius the Iesuite , saying , i i Miro● m●g●● Ni● . de Lira , et Dion . Carthusianum , quinon n●gant ●as historia● esse veras ●●d negant ●as ●am● ad Canon . Scrip●uram , si●●t nec librum To●i●● , Iudith , et Machahaeo●ū pe●tin●re Perer●m D●● c. 16● in mit . Dionysius Carthusianus , and Lyra , doe not deny the History of Susanna to be true , but they deny the bookes of Iudith , Tobit , and the Maccabees to apertaine to the Cononicall Scriptures . And the like observation touching Lyra , is made by Picus Mirandula ; and k k Iob. ●●●pic . Mi●●ād ●heor●m 5. de Fide ●t ord. . Adve tendum multa quae in decretis numer●̄tur Apocrypha , et ita apud Hieron . ●●lentur , ni●ilominus in officijs divinis l●g● , I● . theor . 6● . 2. Picus himselfe would have us note , that many things which in the Decrees are reckoned for Apocryphall , and so accounted by Hierome , are neverthelesse read in the Divine Service , and many things also which some hold not to bee tru● .

Of Communion under both kinds ; and number of Sacraments .

The Councel of Constance did not simply forbid the ministring of the Sacrament in both kinds , but the teaching of the people , that of necessity it must be so ministred ; for so we find in the thirteenth Session of the said Councel , l l Concil. Const. ●ess . 13 That if any should obstinately maintaine , that it was unlawfull , or ●rronious to receive in one kind , he ought to be punished , and driven out as an Hereticke .

Gerson , howsoever he thought , that the Church might lawfully prescribe the communicating in one kind alone , ( wherein we cannot excuse him ) yet hee acknowledgeth , m m Deb●t con●edi quod ●●●q●ando potu●t fi●ri . & factum est sine peccato , imò ●um merito , quod aliqui L●ici communicarent sub ut●á●que specie . Gerson . t●act . de Communione sub utr●que specie . part. 1. That the Communion in both kinds was anciently used .

The Councel of Basil n n Concil. Basil Sess. 30. permitted the Bohemians to continue the use of the Communion in both kinds , upon condition , o o Cum eà conditione ut crederent Communionem sub una esse ●●citam . Bell●r . li. 4. de Euchar cap. 26. § Secundo Ex Ae● . Sylv. hist. Bo●em . cap. 52. & Genebra●d . lib. 4. ●hron . That they should not find fault with the contrary use , nor sever themselves from the Catholicke Church .

Iacobellus Misvensis p p 〈◊〉 Sylv i● hist. Bo●e . edit per Orth●in . Gratium . Co●pit hortart popu●um ne de●n●●p● communionem Calicis q●●q o pac●o negliger●nt . Ae●● . Sylv hist. Bohe● cap. 35. Iacobellum Misvens●m instruxit in e●d●m opinione . a Preacher of Prague , being admonished by Petrus Dresdensis , after he had searched into the writings of the ancient Doctors , and by name Dionysius , and Saint Cyprian , and finding in them , the communicating of the Cup to the Laity commanded , hee thenceforth exhorted the people by no meanes to neglect , or omit the receiving the Communion of the Cup.

Cardinal Bessarion , Bishop of Tusculum , professeth in expresse termes : q q Stigitur haec duo sola S●cr●me●t● in Evangelijs manifes●è tradita legimus : Bapti●m●s domini●●s persi●itu● verbis , & Eu●haristia . Tr●ctat . C●rdin●l . Bess●●ion de S●cram . Eucha●ist . p●g. 181. Tra●t●●us hic habe●ur inter Litu●●ias S. Patrum . Wee reade onely of two Sacraments , which were plainely delivered in the Gospel .

Of the Eucharist .

Waldensis saith , r r Primi Conv●●sion●m 〈◊〉 p●r viam identificationis supposito●um efficiunt ; secundi per viam impanationis ; tertij per viam appellationis figuralis & tropi●ae , ●um quibus concurrit Wicleff . Via impanationis in●●●ntum placuit Guidoni , ut si fo●et Papa ●psam decerneret eligendam . Tho. Waldensis de sacram Euchar. cap 64. tom. 2. That some supposed the Conversion that is in the Sacrament , to be , in that the bread and wine are assumed into the unitie of Christs person : some thought it to be by way of Impanation ; and some by way of Figurative and Tropical appellation .

The first and second of those opinions , found the better entertainement in some mens mindes , because they grant the essentiall prese●ce of Christs body , and yet deny not the presence of the bread still remaining to sustaine the appearing Accidents .

These opinions he reports to have beene very acceptable to many , not without sighes , wishing the Church had Decreed , That men should follow one of them . Whereupon Iohn Paris writeth , That this way of Impanation so pleased Guido the Carmelite , sometime Reader of the Holy Palace , that he professed , if hee had beene Pope , he would have prescribed and commanded the embracing of it .

Petrus de Alliaco s s Cameracens●● 4. Sent. quest. 6. a●t. 2. lic●t ita esse non s●qua●ur evidenter ex Sc●ipturà . the Cardinal , profess●th , that for ought he can see , the substantiall Conversion of the Sacramental elements , into the body and bloud of Christ , cannot be proved either out of scripture , or any determination of the universal Church , & maketh it but a matter of opinion , inclining rather to the other opinion , of Consubstantiation . His words are these , t t Pa●et quod i●●e modus sit possibilis , nec repugnat rationi , nec authoritati Bibliae , im● faci●●or ad intelligend● et rationabilio● quàm &c. Camerace●s . in 4. Sent. qu. 6. art. 2. pag. 265. lit . F. That manner or meaning , which supposeth the substance of bread to remaine still , is possible ; neither is it contrary to reason , or to the authoritie of the Scriptures ; nay it is more easie , and more reasona●ble to conceive , than that which sayes , the Substance doth leave the Accidents . And of this opinion no inconvenience doth seeme to ensue , if it could accord with the Churches determination . And hee addes , That the opinion which holdeth the substance of bread to remaine , doth not ●vidently follow of the Scripture , nor in his seeming , of the Churches determination .

Biel saith , u u Non inven●tur ●xpressum in Canon● Bibliae , unde de hoc antiquit ùs suerun● diversae ●piniones . Bi●● . in Canon . Mis●ae . ●ect . 40. It is not expressed in the Canon of the Bible , how the body of Christ is in the Sacrament , and hereof anciently there have beene divers opinions .

Cajeta● saith , uu uu Dico autem ab Eccl●siâ q●um non apparea● ex ●vangelio ●●acti●um aliqu●d ad intelligendum haec verba prop●iè . Ca●etan . in 3. part . Thom. qu. 75. a●t . ● . that secluding the Churches authoritie , there is no written word of God sufficient to enforce a Christian to receive this doctrine [ of Transubstantiation . ]

Saurez the Iesuit ingeniously professeth , x x Ex Catholici● sol●● Cai●tanus in Commentario ●ujus articul● qu●●●ssu ●ij v. in Romanà editio●e expu●ctu● est , d●cuit , se●●usà ecclesi● authoritate ve●ba i●●a al veritatem han● confirmandam non suffice●e . Su●rez to● . 3. Disp. 46. § ●erti● . that Cardinal Cajetan in his Comment●rie upon this Article , did a●●irme , that those words of Christ . [ This is my Body ] doe not of themselves sufficiently prove [ Transubstantiation ] without the Churches authoritie : and therefore by the Commandment of Pius Quintus , that part of his Commentarie is left out in the Roman Edition .

By this it appeares , that their learned Councel of Schoolemen who lived in this Age , were not fully agreed upon the poynt .

Of Images , and Prayer to Saints .

Abulensis y y Quaedam suot qu●e nec in statu● nec in figurà congruè assigna●● possunt , sicut Trinita● beata . Abulens . in De●t. 4. quaest. 5. was so farre from allowing the worship of Images , as that he held it a thing unlawfull in it selfe , Deut. 4.16 . secluding Adoration , to make any visible Image or representation of God according to his de●ty : for hence ( saith hee ) these z z In imaginib●s ●ignan●ibus Deum pu●è , s●ilice● trinitatem , duo inconvenientia siqui possunt ; primum , Idolatria , ne etiam Im●go colatur ; secundum , error et haeresis , scilice● attribuere D●● illam Corporieta●em , & essentiale● differentiam , qualem tres i●●as siguras sign●re canspi●imus Id Ibid. quaest 4 two inconveniences will follow : First , The Perill of Idola●rie , in case , the Image it selfe should come to be adored : and Secondly , Errour and Heresie , whiles one shall as●ribe to God such bodily shapes and formes , as the Trinity ●s usually pictured withall .

Now that Abulensis with oth●rs held it unlawfull to picture or repres●nt the Trin●tie , is acknowledged by Bellarmine , saying , a a Bell●r . de Imag. Sanct. lib. 2. cap. 8. § Hae● opinio Calvi●● est aliquorum Catholicarum . It is Calvins opinion in the first booke of his Institutions , cap 11. that it is an abhominable sinne to make a ●●sible and bod●ly Image of the invisible and incorporeall God ; and this opinion of Calvins is also the opinion of some Catholicke Doctors , as Abulensi● [ upon 4. Deut. quest. 5. ] and Durand [ upon 3. dist. 9. qu. 2. ] and Peresius , in his booke of ●raditions .

Gerson condemned all m●king of an Image , or portraiture , appointed or accommoda●ed to worship and aadoration● saying , b b Ad adorandum ig●ur & colendum prohibe●tur imagines fieri . Gerson in compend . Theolog. de 1. pr●●●●pto . in secund● parte oper. Thou shalt ●ot adore th●m , nor worship them ; which are thus to b● distinguished , Thou shalt not adore them ; that is , With any bodily reverence , or bowing , or kneeling to them ; Thou shalt not worship them with any devotion of mind . Images therefore are prohibited to bee either adored or Worshipped .

The same Gerson disliked c c Iudicate si tanta Imaginum & pic●urarum in Eccl●sijs var●tas expe●iot , & an pl●●es simpli●●s nonnu●quā 〈…〉 . G●rson 〈…〉 . defect . viro●um Ec●l●si●st . part 2 O●er . the varietie of pictures and Images in Churches , occasioning Idolatry in the simple .

If Christians were in no pe●ill of Idolatry by worshipping Images , why doth Gerson complaine● d d H●n● superstitiones in populis quae Religion●● inf●●●unt Chisti●●●● , d●m sicut ●lim Iudei solo si●na qu●runt , dum Imaginibus exhibent La●●iae cultum . Gerson de prob●tione spi●i●uum . Pa●t . 1. oper. that Superstition had infected Christian Religion , an● that people , like Iewes● did onely s●eke after Signes , and yeeld Divine honour to Images .

Cassander writeth in this manner : e e Sa●io● thus Sch●l●sti●is d●sp ic●t sententia Thom● , qui●●nset ●magi●em eàdem ●d●ratione ●ol●ndā , qua●es ipsa ●●litur quae ●magine signifi●atur ; in q●i●us ●st Durandus , et R●b . Holc●t . Gabriel qu●que Bi●●●L●ct . 4● . in Canon . Saniorem s●nte●tiam ●●fer● eorum , qui dic●nt , quod Imago , neque ut consideraturin se 〈◊〉 q●od lignum est , l●pis 〈◊〉 m●t●llum , neque ut considera●ur secund●m rationem ●●gni & imaginis , est adoranda . Cas●and . Consult . de Ima●in . The opinion of Thomas Aquinas , who holdeth , that Images are to be wo●shipped , as their Samplers , is disliked by sound●r Sc●oolemen , amongst whom is Durand , Holcot , and Gabriel ●iel .

Biel reporteth the opinion of them which say , that an Image , neither as it is considered in it selfe mater●ally , nor y●t according to the nature of a Signe or Image , is to bee worshipped .

And he saith well , that this opinion of Thomas was disliked of others ; for besides those already mentioned ; this was one of the Problems which Picus Mirandula proposed to be maintained by him at Rome , namely ; that f f Nec cr●x Christi , ne● ull● Im●g● ado●anda e●t ad●rat●one L●trie , eti●m ●o m●d● quo p●ni● Thomas . 〈…〉 M●rand Conclusiones t●m 1. Neither the Crosse , nor any other Image was to be worshipped with Latria , or Divine worship , no not in that sense as Thomas would have it . And when othe●s carped at this , and other his Assertions touching ●he Sacrament of the Eucharist , himselfe made his owne Apologie , and defence .

Touching Invocation of Saints , though Gerson did not absolutely condemne it , yet hee reprehendeth the abuses and s●pers●i●ious observations , then prevailing in the worshi●ping of S●ints , ve●y bitterly . For in his Consolato●y tract of Rectifying the Heart , amongst many o●her consid●rations he complaineth , g g Co●d●●●●ns●de●at●6 ●6 . That ●h●re is incollerable ●uperstition in the worshipping of Saints , innumerable observations without all ground of reason , vaine credulitie , in beleeving things concerning the Saints , reported in the uncertaine Legends of their lives , superstitious opinions of obtaining Pardon and remission of sinnes , by saying so many Pater nosters in such a Church , before such an Image ; as if in the Scriptures and Authenticall writings of holy men , there were not sufficient direction for all acts of pietie and devotion , without these frivolous Additions .

Gabriel Biel in his Lectures upon the Canon of the Masse , saith , h h Dicendum quòd sancti in Patrià qui de facto in coelis sunt , naturali cognitime purà vespertina , quae est cognitio rerum in proprio genere , nullas orationes nostrum in teraè consistentium , neque mentales , neque vocales cognoscunt , propter immoderatam distantiam ●●tor nos & ipsos . Gabr. Biel. in Canone Missae . Lect. 31. That the Saints in Heaven , by their naturall knowledge , which is the knowledge of things in their proper kinde , know no Prayers of ours that are here upon earth , neither mentall nor vocall , by reason of the immoderate distance that is betwixt us and them . Secondly , i i Non est de ratione beatitudinis essentialis ; ut nostras orationes , au● alia facta nostra , matutina cogni●ione videant in verbo . Id ibid. That it is no part of their essentiall beatitude , that they should see our prayers , or our other actions in the eternall word ; and thirdly , k k Vtrùm autem videre n●stra● orationes pertineat ad eorum beatudinem accidentalem , non per omnia certum est . Ibid. That it is not altogether certaine , whether it doe appertaine to their accidentall felicity to see our Prayers . At length he concludeth , l l Vnde probabilitèr dicitur , q● . licèt non necessa●io sequitur ad sanctorum beatitudinem , ut orationes nostras audiant de congruo ; tamen Deus eis revelat omnias quae ipsis offeruntur . ibid. That it may seeme Probable , that although it doe not follow necessarily upon the Saints beatitude , that they should heare our Prayers of congruitie , yet it may seeme probable , that God revealeth unto them all those suits , which men present unto them .

By this we see that for the maine , Gabriel concludeth ; that the Saints with God , doe not by any power of their owne , by any naturall , or evening knowledge whatsoever , understand our prayers mentall or vocall ; they and we are d●sparted so farre asunder , as there can not bee that relation betweene us ; so that wee might haply call , and they not bee Idonei auditores , not at hand to heare us .

Now as learned Master Mountague , now Lord Bishop of Chichester saith , m m Master Richard Montagu , now L. Bishop of Chichester , his Treatise of the Invocation of Saints . pag. 129. The Saints their naturall or evening knowledge onely is that which wee must trust unto , as being a lonely in their power to use and to dispose ; and of ordinary dispensation .

In a word , Peter Lombard saith , n n Pet. Lombard . Sent. lib. 4. dist. 45. It is not incredible , that the soules of Saints heare the prayers of the suppliants .

Biel saith o o Bi●l in Canon . Missae lect. 31. , ( as we have heard : ) That it is not certaine but it may seeme probable , that God reveleth unto Saints all those suits , which men present unto them : here is nothing but probability and uncertain●y ; nothing whereon to ground our praying to Saints .

Of Iustification and Merits .

Trithemius the Abbot , who lived in this age complaines , that p p Cr●briùs Philosophos Gentili●m quàm Christ● Apostolos all●●●ntes ; ut in Cathedrà Christi crebriùs Aristoteles ●it●tur in medium quàm Paulus ●ut Petrus — veram num igitur ● Kymolane , quaeramus sapienti●m , quae in Sol● Fide Domin● nostri Ies● Christi formatá consillit . Trithem . epist. Familiar . epist. 26. ad Kymola● . Aristotle and the heathen Philosophers were oftner alleadged in the Pulpit , than Saint Peter and Saint Paul ; and therefore hee disswades his friend Kymolanus from too much study of profane sciences : Let us ( saith hee ) seeke after true and heavenly wisedome , which consisteth in faith onely in our Lord Iesus Christ , working by love .

Cardinall Cusanus in a treatise of his De pace fidei , brings in Dialogue-wise , Saint Peter and Saint Paul instructing the severall nations of the world , Greekes and Arabians ; the French and the Almanies , Tartarians and Armenians ; and there in that conference hee laboureth to bring them to an agreement In pace fidei , in the unity of faith ; and amongst other things he proves q q Paulus quid igitur justificat cum qui iustitiam assequitur ? Tartarus . Non merita , ali●s non esset gratia , sed debitum● Vis igitur quod sol● Fides justific●t adper●eptionem ●ternae vitae ? Paul . Volo . Cusan . de P●ce fidei . cap. 25. pag 876. at large , That wee are justified only by faith in Christ , and not by any merit of our owne workes .

The doctri●e of free Iustification is excellently handled by Savonarola in his meditations upon the fiftieth Psalme , which Possevine r r Pridi● quàm d●ceretur ad mortem , sc●ipsit inter imn●nē●●● supplicij angustias latin● sermone 31 , et 50 med●tationes . Possevin . in App●rat . tom. 1. verbo Hi●●onym . Savonar . acknowledgeth , to be composed by him whiles hee was in durance , the day before hee was led to the stake .

Vpon occasion of those wo●ds of the Psalmist , They gat not the land in poss●ssion through their owne sword ; neither was it their o●ne arme that helped them , but thy right hand and thine arme , and the light of thy countenance ; because thou hadst a favour unto them , Psalm . 4● . ver. 3.4 . ●e sweetly comm●nteth on this sort ; 〈…〉 quia vo●ui● . S●vonarol . in Psal. 50. ve●s . 1. Thou ●av●uredst them , that i● , they were not saved by their owne merits or workes , l●st they should glory th●●ein ; but even because of thy go●d will and ple●sure . Vpon occasion of that Petition of the Lords prayer , Forgive as our trespasses , hee renounceth all merit of his owne workes , and professeth t t Verè tanquam pa●nus menstraute sunt omnes ●ust●●●ae a●strae , [ E●ai . 64.6 ] ●●gitationum mal ●●um nostra●●● nullus est numeras . Hieron . Savon●r . in orat . Do●●nic . pag 177. in the words of the P●ophet Esay , That all our righteousnesse is as the rags of a menstruous woman .

Picus Mirandula treating on the same Petition saith , it is certaine that wee are not saved for our owne merits , but by the onely me●cy of our God .

Gerson taught that wee are not justified by the perfection of any inherent qualitie , u u Quia cert 〈◊〉 est , quo●●os non salv●mur p●opt●r m●rlta nostra , sed per s●●am Dei miseri o●diā P●e . Mirand . in orat . Dom. to 1 x x Quis gloriabit●r mundum ●or se habe●e ? po●rò qui● Esaias se cum ●eteris i●volvens ●ibique vil●scens humili cō●●ssione prot●lerit l●gimus ; om●es 〈◊〉 no●t 〈…〉 G●rson de Consolat . li 4. P●o●● 1. 〈…〉 that all our inherent righteousnesse is imperfect ; yea , that it is like the polluted rags of a menstruous woman , that it cannot endure the triall of Gods severe judgement ; even Esay himselfe with the rest became vile in his owne eyes , and pronounceth this lowly confession , all our righteousnesse is as filthy rags .

The Cardinall of Cambray proveth y y 〈◊〉 . 1● Sent. Dul. 1. qu. 2. by many reasons and authorities of Scrip●u●e , That no act of ours , from how great charity soever it proceed , can merit eternall life of condignity . And whereas God is said to give the kingdome of h●aven for good merits or good workes ; the Cardinall for clearing hereof delivereth us this distinction ; z z ●aec dict ● , Propter , 〈◊〉 capi●●r Conse●●ti●e ; & tun● den●tat ordinem consecutiones uni●s rei ad aliam quand●que vero capitur Cau●alites● Pet. C●meracens . in 1. S●n● . Dist● 1 qu. 2. art. ● . That the word Propter , or for , is not to be taken Causally , as if good workes were the efficient cause of the reward , as fire is the cause of heate ; but improperly , and by way of consequence , noting th● order of o●e thing following o● another ; signifying that the reward is given after the good worke , and not but after it , yet no● for it : a a 〈…〉 ad p●●es●ntiam esse unius sequitur esse alteri●s non ●am●s vnt●tejus ne● ex natur●rei sed ex solà vo●unta●e alterius● & s● actus 〈◊〉 dicitur cau●a 〈◊〉 praemij . Id in 4. Sent. qu. 1. ar● . 1. so that a meritorious act is said to be a cause in respect of the rew●rd , as Causa sine qu● non also is said to be a ca●se , though it be no cause properly .

Thomas Walden professeth plainely his dislike of that saying : b b Qu●d homo 〈◊〉 〈…〉 est dign●● 〈…〉 , aut h●● grai●●● vel 〈◊〉 g●ori● ; quam●is qui●am S●●olastici inve●●runt ad hoc dicendum terminos de condigno & cong u● . W●ldens . tom 3. ●● Sacram. tit. 1. cap. 7. That a man by his merits is worthy of the kingdome of heaven , of this grace or that glory : ho●s●ever certaine schoole-men , that they might so sp●ake , had invented the termes of Condignity and Congruity . But c c Reputo igitur saniorem Theologum , fidelio●em catholicum , et Scripturis sanctis magis concordem ; qu●●ole meritum simplicitèr a●negat , et cum mo●●sic●tione Apostoli , & scriptur●rum concedit , quia simpliciter quis non mer●tur regnum coelorum , sed ex gratià D●i , aut voluntate la●gi●oris . ●b . I repute him ( saith he ) the sounder Divine , the more faithfull Catholike , and more consonant with the holy Scriptures , who doth simply deny such merit , and with the qualification of the Apostle and of the Scriptures , confesseth , that simply no man meriteth the kingdome of heaven , but by the grace of God , or will of the Giver : d d Si●ut om●es sancti pr●ores ●sque ad recentes Scholast●cos , & comm●nis scripsit Eccles●● Ibid. as all the former Saints , untill the late Schoole-men , and the Vniversall Church hath written .

Out of which words of Waldens wee may further observe ( saith the learned and Right Reverend Doctor Vsher , Arch-bishop of Armag● ) e e Bi●●●p Vshe●s answer ●o the Iesu●s Challenge Tit of Me●●t . p 581 both the time when , and the persons by whom this innovation was made in these later dayes of the Church : namely , that the late Schoole-men were they , that corrupted the ancient doctrine of the Church , and to that end devised their new termes of the merit of Congruity and Condignity .

Paulus Burgensis , expounding those words of David , Psal. 36.5 . Thy mercy O Lord is in heaven ( or reacheth unto the heavens ) writeth thus . f f Gloriam coelestem nu●lus de condigro secundùm legem communem m●re●ur — Et sic manifestum est , quo●●a coelo m●ximè 〈◊〉 misericordia Dei in beatis . Paul . Burgens . addition . ad ●yran . in Psal. 35. No man according to the common Law can merit by condignity the glory of heaven . Whence the Apostle saith in the 8. to the Romans , that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the future glory which shall be revealed in us . And so it is manifest , that in heaven most of all the mercy of God shineth forth in the blessed .

I will close up this point , as also this age , with that memorable saying of Ernestus , Arch-bishop of Magdeburg , lying on his death-bed g g Quinquennio o●●e Luther . Iob. ● Munster in Vortlage heredi●●●ij , discurs . Nobilis . Propos. 3. ad Ann. 1512. some five yeares befo●e Luther shewed himselfe : h h Keimich ●rawe , ich begere ewer werke nirgēts Qu● Mein●s He●ren Christi we●ke mussens assein thun● Daraus v●rl●sse ich mi●h . Catalog test . verit . lib. 19. ad ve●bum , I trust no b●dy , I d●e not desire your wo●kes , to any thing , the workes of my Lord Christ ●holly must doe it , on those I rely . It is witnessed by Clement Scha● , Chaplaine to the said Arch-bishop , and one who was present at his death ; that a Frier Minor used this speech to the Archbishop : Take a good heart most worthy Prince , wee communicate to your excellencie all the good workes not onely of our selves , but our whole order of Frier Minors ; and therefore doubt not , but you receiving them , shall appeare before the tribunall Seate of God righteous and blessed . Whereunto the Arch-bishop replyed ; By no meanes will I trust upon my owne workes . or yours , but the workes of Christ Iesus alone shall suffice , upon them will I repose my selfe .

THE SIXTEENTH CENTVRIE , From the yeare of Grace , 1500. to 1600. Of Martin Luther .
PAPIST .

WHat say you of this sixteenth Age ?

PROTESTANT .

We are now ( by Gods assistance ) come to the period of time , which was agreed upon in the beginning of our conference ; to wit , to the dayes of Martin Luther ; for about the yeare of Grace 1517 , hee beganne to teach , and Preach against Indulgences . And withall I have produced a Catalogue of our professours , unto this present sixteenth Centurie .

PA.

Stay your selfe ; you must ( saith Master a a Prot. Apolog. tract. 2. chap 2. Sect. 11. sub . 3. Brerely ) show us your professours during the twentie yeares next before Luther .

PRO.

It is done already ; for besides our English Martyrs , we have produced Trithemius the Abbot , and Savonarola , both which lived within the time mentioned , and held with us the Article of free Iustification ; and Savonarola ( howsoever the matter be otherwise coloured ) was burnt for Religion in the yeare 1498.

Besides , there have beene in all Ages , and in the time mentioned , such as held the substantiall Articles of our Religion , both in the Roman , and Greeke Church ; and by name , the Grecians in common with us , have openly denyed the Popes Supremacie , Purgatorie , private Masses , Sacrifices for the dead ; and defended the lawfulnesse of Priests marriage .

Likewise , in this Westerne part of the world , the Schollers of Wickliffe , called Lollards , in England , the Tabo●ites in Bohemia , and Waldenses in France , maintained the same doctrine in substance with our moderne Protestants , as appeareth by a Confession of the Waldensian Faith , set forth b b Responsio excu●atoria ●ratru● Wal●ensium contra 〈◊〉 literas Doctor . Augustin . exr●t . in Fas●●●ul . reru● expetend . & ●ugiend . pag. 87. about the yeare of Grace 1508 , which was within the time prefixed .

Neither did these whom we have produced dissemble their Religion ; but made open profession thereof , by their Writings , Confessions , and Martyrdomes , as also their just Apologies are extant , c c Acts and Monum . vol. 1. lib. 6. pag. 812. to cleere them from the Adversaries imputation .

PA.

I thought Luther had beene the first founder of your Religion ; for there bee some of your men who call d d Bu●●r in epist ad Episcop. Hereford . prot . Apo● . tract . 2. ●ap. 2. sect. 11. him the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine .

PRO.

Luther broached not a new Religion , he onely drained and refined it from the Lees and dregs of superstition ; he did not forme or found a new Church which was not in being , but onely reformed and purged that which he found , from the soil● of errours , and disorders .

When Hilkiah the Priest , in Iosiah's time , 2. King . 22 found out the booke of God ; he was thereby a meanes to bring to light , what the wicked proceedings of Manasses , Amon , and others , had for a season smothered ; and so did Luther , he was the instrument whom God used for the farther enlightning his Church ; and yet hereupon it no more followeth that he was the first that preached our Religion , than upon the former , that Hi●kiah first preached the Law .

The Protestants Church by Luthers meanes began no otherwise in Germanie , than health begins to be in a body , that was formerly sicke , and overcharged , and now recovered .

So that in respect of doctrine necessary to salvation , the Church in her Firme members ( as Saint Austine speakes ) f f

Etiam tun● suis firmissimis eminet Ecclesia . August epist 48. tom. 2.

Quid●m fideles fi●missimi ●ur●aba●tu● . Aug Epi. 80. Quid●m ●●miss●mi p●o ●ide forti●er exulab●rt , quid●m toto orbe l●●●●bant . Id. ibid epist 4● .

Sic Ecclesiai● F●um●ntis Dominicis conserva●a est . Ibid.

was the same before Luther , and afterwards ; and it began to be by his meanes onely according to a grea●er measure of knowledge , and freedome from such corruptions , as formerly ( like ill humours ) oppressed it , and ove●charged it . The Pro●estants Church then is the same with all good and sound Christians that lived before them , and succeedeth the sound members of the visible Chu●ch , that kept the life of true Religion in the substantiall matters of Faith and Godlinesse , though otherwise those times were da●kened with a thicke mist of errours .

Now whereas some call Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine , they did not ther●by intend , that he was the fi●st that ever preached the d●ctrine of the r●formed Churches ; for they could not be ignorant , that after Christ and his Apostles , and the Fathers of the first five Ages , Bertram , and A●lfricke , and Berenger , Peter Bruis , and Henry of Tholouse , Dulcinus , and An●ldus , and Lollardus , Wickliffe , Husse , Hierome of Prag●e and others stood for the same truth which we professe ; but their meaning was , that Luther was the first , who in their Age and memorie , publickly and succesfully set on foot a generall reformation of the Church in these Westerne parts .

And thus in a tollerable sense Luther may bee called the first Apostle of the Reformation , though not simply the first that preached the Protestants doctrine .

Americus Vesputius is g g Chytrael Chronolog . reported to have discovered the West Indies , or America , and withall beares the name thereof ; and yet Christopher Columbus discovered it before him .

Bishop Iewell saith , h h Apolog part. 4 cap. 4. di●●● . 2. that in Luthers dayes , in the midst of the darknesse of that Age , there first began to shine some glimme●ing beame of truth ; his meaning is not , that the truth was then first revealed , but that by Luthers m●anes , it was manifested in a fuller measure and degree of l●ght and knowledge , than it was in the f●rmer and da●ker times of Poperie ; yea , he giveth p●rticular instance of true professours that were before Luther , namely ; Saint Hilarie , Gregory , Bernard , Pauperes de Lugduno , the ●ishops of Greece and Asia , as also i i Id. Part 4 pag. 411. Valla , Marsilius , Petrarch , Savonarola , and others .

PA.

Did Luther himselfe acknowledge he had any predecessors , or fore-runners ?

PRO.

I answer with my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly , k k M●st●r ●●shers R●●l●●tion , & Doct●r Featlyes Answer . that Luther acknowledged the Waldenses ( term●d fratres Pigardi ) as appeares by his Preface before the Waldension Confession . I found ( saith hee ) in these men a miracle , almost unheard of in the Popish Church ; to wit , that these men leaving the doctrines of men , to the utmost of their endeavour , meditated in the Law of God day and night , and were very ready and skilfull in the Scriptures : whereas in the Papacie , the greatest Clerkes u●terly neglected the Scriptures . I could not but congratulate both them and us , that wee were together brought into one sheepfold .

Of Iohn Husse and Hi●rome of Prague he saith , l l Ioannem Hu● & Hier●● 〈◊〉 vtros Catholicos 〈◊〉 runt●●●retici ipsi , & 〈◊〉 . ●uthe●us in 〈◊〉 articuli 32. ap●d ●o . Ru●●c●s . They burned Iohn Husse and Hierome both Catholike men , they being themselves Heretikes and Apostates : and in his third Preface hee saith ; hee hath heard from men of credit , that Maximilian the Emperour was wont to say of Iohn Husse : Alas ! alas ! they did that good man wrong .

And Erasmus Roterodam in the first bookes which hee printed ( lying yet by me ) writeth ; m m ●o Hus exustum quidem , sed non convictum esse . That Husse indeed was condemned and burned , but not convicted .

PA.

To what Church did Luther joyne himselfe ? and why left hee the Roman Church .

PRO.

Hee joyned himselfe in point of faith , to the ancient Primitive and Apostolicke Church that went before him , and for his present Communion , to that sound part of the Roman Church , which then with him , hated the corruptions , which the Romish faction , for the maintenance of their pompe and profit had upheld .

In particular , hee joyned himselfe to those honourable personages , the Dukes of Saxony and Wittenberge , and the Earle of Mansfield , and to such Ch●istian congregations as within their territories began to abandon Poperie , and reforme themselves . He received Ordination in the Church of Rome ; this ordination ( for substance ) was good , and by vertue thereof hee preached t●e word , and brought the people to see and detest , not the Church of Rome , but her corruptions , from whence hee severed himselfe , to wit , from the Roman Court , and faction therein : so that hee leapt not out of the Church , hee kept himselfe still within the barne-floore thereof , onely he leapt out of the huske of popish errours .

Now this his separation and ours from errour ●s warranted by Gods word , since Gods people are commanded , n n Apocalyp. 18.4 . and that upon a grievous penalty to depart out of Babylon , and spiritua●l Sodome ; and this we ●ake to be Rome , since your owne Iesuites , o o

Babylon mater Forn●cationum , Roma quidem est Ribera in cap. 14. Apocal nu. 39.

De Rom● intelligendum , non soll●● quali● sub Ethnicis Imperatori●us olim ●uit . 〈◊〉 qualis in ●ine seculi 〈…〉 . Id. in cap. 14. Apoc. nu● 4● .

Coll●itur , Romam postqu●m à fid● defecerit . Viegas in cap 18. Apoc. com . 1. Sect. 4.

that have commented on the Revelation , call Rome , Babylon ; and that this is to be understood not onely of heath●n Rome , but of Rome Christian , after that it had forsaken hea●henisme , and had received the faith of Christ , and turned againe from that unto Antichristianisme .

PA.

If any Protestant Church were in being before , or at Luthers appearing , then would they upon his preaching , have acknowledg●d him , and joyned thems●lves to him ; but ( as Bell●rmine sa●th ) p p B●ll●r . lib. a. de not . 〈…〉 5. §. ●rae●●re●●●i . they did not .

PRO.

Alpho●sus de Casiro saith q q N●c s●us Lu●herus 〈…〉 s●d mult●r●m 〈…〉 〈…〉 ; Neither did Luther in this age come ●orth alone , but accompanied with a gr●at troope , as with a Guard , waiting for L●t●er as for t●eir Captaine and Leader : such were Philip Melanchton , Conradus P●llican●s , ●ambert Fabricius , Capito , ●si●●der , Stu●mius , a●d Ma●tin Bucer : and th●se ( saith he ) seemed to have ●xpect●d him b●fore hee came , and upon his comming d●lcl●a●e unto him ; so that hee wanted no● such as gave him the right hands of fellowship , Galat. 2.9 .

Carolus Mi●titius being sent from Pope Leo to Frederike , professed , r r Ill ri● in Catal. T●st . ve●t● E● 〈◊〉 . in 〈…〉 tresprote contrà Pap●m ●●bant● That all the way as he came , having s●und●d m●ns aff●ctions , hee found three to favour Luth●r , for one that favoured the Pope .

And Lut●er professeth , s s Prae●ot oper. Lutheri . that the applause of the world did much support him , most men being weary of the frauds , and wicked p●actices of the Romanists .

Neither are these penurious examples , to give instance in Melanchton , Pellican , Bucer , and others , as Brereley scornefully calleth i● , t t Prot. Apol● tract. 2. ●a . 2 sect. 11. for they were as great scholl●rs as that age aff●●ded . P●llican was one who made great helpe for r●viving t●e Hebrew tongue , and was Luthers ancient ; and so was Io●n Capnio , or Reuchlin , who brought Greeke and Hebrew into Germany .

Now b●sides his c●evals , and contemporaries , the Wald●n●es , as also Iohn H●sse bare a torch before Luther , and sh●wed him his way .

PA.

Master Brereley saith , u u Id ibid pag. 443. That Melanchton , P●lican , and Bucer were originally Catholikes , and followed Luthers example in revolting from the Catholike Church .

PRO.

Saint Paul was originally a Pharisee , and yet hee did well to forsake the leaven of their traditions , and embrace the doctrine of the Gospell . And so did Saint Austin the uu uu Quem meum ●●rorē nonnull●● op●●●ula me● satis ind●ca●t ante ●pis●opatum me●m s●●●pta . Aug de P●aedestinat . Sanct. cap. 3. tom 7. errour of the Manichees and Pelagians , and embraced the truth of the Gospell .

Besides , they left not the Catholike , but the Roman Church , nor that altogether , but the faction that was therein , to wit , the papacie .

PA.

Schlusselburg saith , x x Impudēnter scribit Ioannes Vte●hovius pag. 143. se ex Co●rado Pelluano audiviss● , mult●s viros e●udi●o● in G●rmanià , p●iusquam prodi●●t Lutherus , Evangelij Doctrinam tenursse , ●deoque ipsum Pellican●m , p●tusquam auditum ess●t nomen Lutheri purgato●ium Papisli●um reij●isse . Conrad . Schlus●elburg Theolog. Calvinist . lib. 2. pag. 130. It is impudencie to say , that many learned men in Germany did hold the doctrine of the Gospell before Luther .

PRO.

Schlusselburgs words are these ; Vtenhovius writes impudently , that he heard Pellican affirme , that many learned men in Germany , held the doctrine of the Gospel before Luther appea●ed , and that Pellican himselfe impugned the popish purgatory , before the name of Luther was heard of . Now why may wee not beleeve Vtenhovius and Pellican affirm●ng the same , and being honest men , as well as Schlusselburg denying it .

Besides , admit there were not any in Germany , yet there might be elsewhere many thousands ; as in Bohemia , France , and England , and other parts , who b●fore Luthers time , embraced the doctrine of the Gospell .

PA.

Master Brereley saith y y Prot Apol. tract. 2. c●p 2. s●ct ●1 . subd . 2. & P●op● . Apol. the Conclus . S●ct . 9. out of Luthers workes , that upon a conference had with the Devill , Luther gave over the Masse , and changed his Religion .

PRO.

Suppose this Conference were extant in all the Dutch copies of Luthers workes ( which yet some make doubt of ) yet might this conference bee onely imaginary , even a strong spirituall 〈◊〉 , and not ●ny personall or reall conference : now from such a spi●ituall conflict , dreame or app●●ition , you cannot draw any sound proofe .

But ( supposing the truth of this conference ) had not Christ a con●●●●nce with Sathan , and Saint Bernar● a combat with him Aff●it autem Satan 〈◊〉 adv●●●● . Au●hor vitae Bern●●d● . lib. 1. cap. 12. ? is thei● religion ere a whit ●he worse to be liked ?

Your Romish Saints were very familiar with the Devill . Saint Oswald wrestled with him ; Saint Dunstane tooke him by the nose ; Christopher in the Legend is said to have served the Devill ; and Saint Xavier was usually vexed with him after Dinner , Supper , Recreation , and saying of Masse ; insomuch as the Devill oft times put him into a cold sweat ; as H●ssenmullerus a a Tur●ianus Iesuita mihi notiss●mus saepe dixit illum [ Z●vie● ] à coena , prandio , Miss● . in recreationibus eti●m ita à demonibus exagitatum , ut in magna copi . à frigidissimum mortis sador●m fuderit Hassenmuller . Histor. Ie●uit●ci ordinis cap. 11. pag. 427. reporteth of him from Turrian the Iesuite .

PA.

The Devill brought arguments against saying of Masse , and disputed against it ; therefore the Masse is good , or else the Devill would not have found fault with it .

PRO.

This followeth not ; for every thing the Devill mislikes , is not therefore good , neither is all he moves one unto , therefore bad . For instance sake ; b b Aliqua de parte nos allegavit [ Deus ] ut te duceremus in c●nobium sac●aram virginum . Del●io . Disquisit . Magic . tom. 2. lib. 4. cap. 1. pag. 144. he came in the habit of Saint Vrsula , and moved one to enter into the Order of Nunnes ; will you say , therefore veiling of Nunnes is bad ?

PA.

Luther used the selfe-same arguments against the Masse , which Satan did : now how could they bee good proofes that were brought in by Satan ? or why would Luther beleeve him ?

PRO.

Luther shewes onely , how Satan tempted h●m to despaire , for that he had beene a Masse-monger ; which Luther knew to be naught without the Devils prompting .

Besides , all that the Devill speakes is not devillish : the Devils , that possessed the men , confessed , and sayd , d d Luke 8. chap. Thou art Christ , the Sonne of the living God ; afterwards they entred into the Heard of Swine ; now the Heardmen they came into the Citty , and told what was done , and sayd , now what though the H●ard-men told how the Devils confessed this Article of the Christian Faith , That Christ was the Sonne of the living God ? was not this a true confession , though the Heard-men had fi●st heard it from the Devils , and likewise reported it from them ?

Luther heard such and such arguments against the Masse ; might not those arguments be true , though Luther hea●d them from Satan , Gods Ape ?

It is true indeed that the Devill in telling truth , ha●h an evill intent ; and so it was here : for hee laboured to drive him to Despaire , by accusing him for saying M●sse , which now he condemned : and the more to terrifie him , he layes downe e e Quid si tales missae horrenda essent Idololatria ? Luther tom. 7. de Mis●â priva●â . pag. 230. reasons against it ; thereby to let him see his old errours ; and all this to drive him to despayre : thus Satan truly layes a mans sinne before him , truly accuses him ; but it is to make him despayre : as he dealt with Cain and Iudas , whose example Luther accordingly alleadgeth upon this occasion . And this was the end the Devill aymed at , as appeares by Luthers owne words , saying , f f Proindè bone siater domine Papista non mentitur Satan quando accusat , aut urget magnitudinem peccati — sed ibi m●nti●ur Satan quando ultra u●get ut d●spèrem de grati● . id . ibid. Satan lieth not , when he layes a mans sinne to his charge , and the heynousnesse thereof ; but then doth Satan lie , when he would have me despayre of the mercie and favour of God .

Againe , it is observable , where Luther was thus tempted● not whiles hee kept in the Monastery , but when hee was leaving it , and comming to the truth ; then the devill began to be busie with him , fearing that hee had slipt his chaine .

Lastly , marke the issue of this conference ; in this conflict the devill was foiled , and Luther won the field , and in effect makes this glorious conquest : I Luther have sinned in saying private Masses without Communicants , contrary to Christs Institution● but the devill lyeth in tempting mee to dispai●e with Cain ; I will therefore with Peter bee s●rry for my fault , and returne to my Saviour .

PA.

Luther broke out into distempered passions , and was at odds with some of Zuinglius his followers .

PRO.

What if Luther after the plaine homelinesse of a blunt German libertie , used some over broad speeches ? that hee was too much carried with the violent streame of his passion , it is to bee imputed to humane infirmitie , and the perversnesse of the manifold adversaries hee found in those times .

Besides , there was as great unkindnesse g g Socrat hist. Eccles. lib. ● . cap. 13. of old , betweene Chrysostome and Epiphanius , Hierome and Ruffinus , and others .

PA.

Bellarmine saith h h Bellar. lib 4. de notis Eccles. cap. 13 § eod●m . out of Cochleus , that Luther began to oppose Indulgences , not because he had any just reason to mislike them ; but because the publishing of them was committed to the Dominicke Friers , and not to the Augustine Friers , of which order himselfe was .

PRO.

This is reported by his sworne enemie , and that against the whole course of things that passed in those times . For Luther ( before this occasion was offered him ) had cleered the doctrine of Originall sinne , of nature and grace , of free-will , and the like ; which were the maine grounds wherein he dis●ented from the Romish Synagogue .

Indeed he manifested his oposition chiefely against papall Indulgences ; and he had reason for it : for at that time things were in so bad a state , that the bloud of Christ was proph●n●d , the power of the Keyes was made contemptible , and the redemption of Soules out of Purgato●ie , was set at a Stak● at Dice , by the Pardon-sellers , to be played for , as Guicca●di●e saith ; This bred great indignation , and many scandals in divers places , but ( as hee saith ) i i Havena concitato ni mo●ti 〈◊〉 indegnatione , & scand●io ass●i , & specialmente nella Gemania , d●ne ● molti de ministri er●●●ved●ta vender● per poco prezz●● gracan si sulle taverne la ●acu●ta de● liberare l' anime d' 〈…〉 purgatori● 〈◊〉 . histor. libro terzo decimo pag. 379. especially in G●rmanie , where were discovered many of the Popes ministers selling for a small price , or set upon a game at Tables in a Taverne , the power to redeeme the Soules of dead men out of Purgatory .

In like sort , that other noble Historian , Th●anus , of more credit than a hundred Cochleusses , saith , k k Peccatum in sacris maneribus dispensa●du , Leo graviore ●umulavit , ●um Laurentij puccij Cardinalis impulsu , pec●niam ad immensos sumptus undique corrogaret , missis per omnia Christiani orbis Regna Diplomatis omnium delict●rum exp●atio●em ●c vitam aeternam polli●itus est , constituto pi●tio , quod quisque pro peccati gravitate dependere● . Iac. Thuan . Histor. sui Temp. ad ann. 1515. that Pope Leo , by the instigation of Cardinal Puccius , gathered huge summes of money , by sending his Breves abroad every where , promising exptation of all sinnes , and life everlasting upon a certaine price , which any should give according to the ●eynousnesse of his offence . Then arose up Martin Luther a professour of Divinity in Wittenberge , who first confuting , and then condemning the Sermons which were made for Indulgences , at length questioned that power , which the Pope assumed to himselfe in the same Breves .

PA.

Was Luther a man of an holy life ?

PRO.

Erasmus who was well acquainted with him , saith l l Et tamen ●i illi faverem ut viro bono , quod fatentur et hostes . Erasm. tom. 3. in ●pist . ad Albert . Episc. & Principem Moguntin . Cardinal . — Illud video ut quisque vir est eptimus , it a illius scriptis minimè offendi . Id. Ibid. that Hee was accounted a good man , even of his very enemies ; and this I observe ( saith the same Erasmus ) That the best men are least offended with his writings .

He had gained such reputation with the people , that ( as m m Come se le persecutioni n●s●●ssimo pi● dalla innocenza della sua vita , & d●lla sani●à d●lla do●trina ●heda altra ●agione . G●●cciard Histo● . It●l . lib. 13. pag. 380. Guicciardine saith ) against●uther ●uther , tooke their Originall , from the innocencie of his life , and soundnesse of his doctrine , rather than upon any other occasion .

Erasmus seemeth to point at that which brought Luther to most of his troubles , namely ; for that he touched to close upon the Popes power , and Supremacie ; as also that hee taxed their Indulgences and pardons which served for the maintenance of their prelacy and Clergy ; for thus it is reported n n Erasmus duo magna esse Lutheri peccata dixit ; quòd ventres Mona●●●●●● , et Coronam P●pae attigisset Charion in Chron. auct. a Pencero . lib. 5. of him ; that when he was asked by Fredericke Duke of Saxonie his Iudgement of Luther ; he said , that there wer● two great faults of his , one , That he medled with the Popes Crowne ; another , That he medled with the Monks Bellyes .

And let this suffice to be spoken by way of Apologie , and in behalfe of Martin Luther , and that Reformation which so many worthies before him desired , himselfe began and attempted , and others now at length h●ve happily effected .

PA.

You tell us of a Reformation : did the Catholicks desire it , were they not content with the Religion then in use ?

PRO.

It seemes they were not ; for divers of them Gave up their lives , for the name of our Lord Iesus Christ , Act. 15.26 . rather than they would yeeld to the Romish superstition .

Besides , I have already given instance in such as foretold , and wished for this Reformation .

Robert Grost-head Bishop of Lincolne , prophesied , o o Non liberabitur Ecclesia ab Aegyptiacà servitute , nisi in ore gladij cruentandi . Math. Pa●●s . in Henr. 3. ad Ann. 1253. that The Church would never be set free , from out of her Aegyptian bondage , but by the edge of the Sword .

Another of our Countrey-men , William O●cham , a learned Schoole man , complaines , that in his time , p p Scripturas S. subver●unt , dicta Sanctorum denegant , sacros Canones , legesque civiles reprobant : qui videbantur Ec●l●siae nostrae columnae , in haeresium soveam se praecipitant . Occham in Prologo . Compend . error . Ioanni● 22. They perverted Scriptures , Fathers , and the Churches Canons ; and that these were no Young men , or novices , or unlearned ones ; but such as should be Pillars of the Church , did cast themselves headlong into the pit of Heresies .

Iohn Gerson advised , that in case the Pope and a Generall Councel would not make Reforma●ion , ( whereof he had little hope ) q q Provi●eant sibi dum silverint ●t po●uerint membra per Provincias aut R●g●a . Gerson . in Dial. Apologet. de Concil. Cō●stant in parte 1. op●r . then the severall par●● and provinces of Christendome , should themselves redresse things a●is●e .

The Cardinal of Cambrey , and Picus Mirandul● presented their treatises of the Chu●ches Reformation , the one to the Councel of Constance , the other to the Lateran Councel .

Pelagius Alvarus set out the Complaint of the Church , and Arch-deacon Clemangies the Corrupt State of the Church .

Hierome Savonarola the Dominican , told the French king , Charles the eight ( as Philip de Comminees saith ) That he should have great prosperity in his voyage into Italy , and that God would give the Sword into his hand : and all this , to the end hee should reforme the corrupt state of the Church , which if he did not performe , he should returne home againe with dishonour , and God would reserve the honour of his worke to some other , and so ( saith he ) it fell out .

When Luther arose , and began to oppose Indulgences , the more wise and moderate sort wished the Pope to reforme r r Poi ●he non era accompagnata col corregere in loco medesimile cose dānabili Guicciard . hist. It●liae lib. 13. pag 380. things apparantly amisse , and not to prosecute Luther : but this Councel was not followed : wherupon , divers parts ( according to Gersons Councel ) began this worke of Reformation , so much desired by all good men , howsoever opposed by the pope , and his adherents .

PA.

A Reformation presupposeth that things were amisse ; will you charge the Catholicke Church with errour ?

PRO.

Wee say that particular Churches ( and such is that of Rome ) may erre , and divers have erred . Sixtus Senensis reckons s s S●xt . Senens . Biblioth. lib. 5. annot. 233. up many Fathers that held the Millenary errour , mistaking that place in the Revelation , 20.5 . They said , that there should be two Resurrections ; the first of the godly , to live with Christ a thousand yeares on earth , in all wordly happinesse , before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death ; and after that thousand yeares , the second Resurrection of the wicked should bee to eternall death , and the godly should ascend to eternall life : this errour t t Baron . ann. 37● . continued almost two hundred yeares after it began , before it was condemned for an heresie ; and was held by so many Church-men of great account , and Martyrs , that Saint Augustine and Ierome did very modestly dissent saith the same Senensis .

The opinion of the necessity of Infants receiving the Sacrament of the Lords body and blood , as well as Baptisme , did possesse the minds of many in the Church for certaine hundreds of yeares , as appeareth by that which Saint Austine writeth of it in his u u August . contra duas Epist. Pelag. lib 1. cap. 22. tom 7. & Epist 107. to . 2. time ; and Hugo de Sancto victo●e * * P●eris re●ens natis idem Sacram●ntum in specie sanguinis est administrandum dig●to sacerdotis quia tales naturaliter sugere possunt . Hugo de S. Victore de Sacram. cap. 20. tom. 3. many hundred of yeares after him .

Were there not also superstition and abuses in the primitive Churches ? did not a Councell x x Concil. Eliberti● . can. 34 , 35 forbid those night vigils which some Christians then used at the graves of the Martyrs , in honour of the deceased Saints ? and are not these Vigils now y y Bell●rm . lib. 3. de cul●u Sanctor . cap. 17. abolished ?

Doth not Saint A●stine confesse z z August de mor. Eccles. Cathol lib. 1 cap. 34. there were certaine Adoratores sepulchr●rum ●t picturarum , worshippers of tombes and pictures in the Church in his time ? and doth not the same Father taxe them for it ?

To come to later times , Thomas Bradwardine complayned a a Totus etenim penè m●ndus post pelagium abij● in errorem ; exurge igitur Domine , & judica ca●sam tuam . B●adwardin . prae● in lib. de caus● Dei contr● Pelagium . ; That the whole world almo●t was gone after Pelagius into errour ; arise therefore O Lord ( saith hee ) and judge thine owne cause .

Gregorius Ariminensis saith , b b Aut si in aliquo discordat , magi● deviat à Catholica veritate , quam dic●um ●elagij Greg. Arim. lib. 2. dist. 26 qu. 1. ar● . 2. That to affirme , that man by his naturall strength , without the speciall helpe of God , can doe any vertuous action , or morally good , is one of the damned heresies of Pelagius , or if in any thing it differ from his heresie , it is further from truth .

The same Gregory saith , c c T●emendum mihi videtur negare authorit●●em Sanctorum , ● contra etiam , non est tutum contraire ●ōmuni opinioni , & con●c●sioni magistrorum nostrorum . Id. lib. 2. dist. 33. quest. 3. The heresies of Pelagius were taught in the Church , and that not by a few , or them meane men , but so many , and of so great place , that hee almost feared to follow the doctrine of the Fathers , and oppose himselfe against them therein .

Cardinall Contaren saith ; d d Alij enim Catholicae sese religionis tit●lo venditantes , & luth●ranorum adversarios jactantes , du● arbitrij libertatem nimium astruere conantur Christi se gratiae plurimum detrahere non intelligunt . Contaren . de Praedestin . That there were some who pretended to be Catholikes , and opposite to Luther , who , whiles they laboured to advance free-will too high , they detracted too much from the free-grace of God , and so became adversaries to the greatest lights of the Church , and friends to Pelagius .

It is not strange then , that we● say there hath beene a defection not onely of Heretikes from the C●urch and faith● but also in the Church , of her owne children , from the sincerity of fai●h d●livered by Christ and his Apostles : not for that all , or the whole Church at any time did forsake the true faith , but for that many fell from it ; according to that of Saint Paul , 1. Tim. 4.1 . In the last times some shall depart from the faith , att●nding to spirits of errour .

Besides , such a famine of the word , as fell out in these later times , must needs have brought in corruption in doctrine ; and this was it that called for Reformation .

For in sundry ages last past , the Roman Church hath behaved her selfe , more like a step-dame , then a naturall mother ; insomuch as shee hath deprived her children of a principall portion of the food of life , e e Nam fides ex diviat verbi auditu . R●m . 10. V●i vero id nec legitur● nec aud●tur , fidem ●e●ire , & labefaclari ne●●sse est● ut ●●diè , inquit pro● d●lor ! omnibus sire locis c●●nimus Espen● D●g●ssi●n . in 1 Timoth lib. 1. cap. 11 ex Nicolao Cl●m●ng . the word of God : her publike readings and service were in an unknowne tongue ; the holy Scriptures were closed up , that people might not cast their eyes upon them : fabulous Legends were read and preached f f Facilius Augiae stabulum , quàm tal●bus fabellis multor●m tum libros , tum● onciones repurges . Id in Poster . epist ad Tim●th . cap. 4. Digress 21 Quaàm ind●gn● est Divis & hominib●s Christianis ill● sanctorum historia , qua Legenda aurea nominatur , quam nescio cur auream appellent , cum scripta sit ab homine ferrei oris , plumbei cordis . Lud. Vives de caus . co●rupt . A●t . l. 2. p. 91. Quae de Divis sunt scripta , praeter pauca quedam , multis sunt commenti●●oedata . Id. de tradend . Disci●linis . lib. 5. p●g 360. Majores nostri tantâ licet quanta nos erga sancto● devotione , justum came● non putarunt , tot Sanctorum gesta recitari , ut legi non possent sacra utriusque Testamenti volumina . Espenc . in prior . ep. ●d Tim. Digress . lib 1. cap. 11. insteed of Gods word : but as Claudius Espencaeus , a Doctor of Paris , a bitter enemy to B●za , and therefore more worthy of credit in this b●halfe , saith ; Our Ancestors as devoutly aff●cted to the Saints as we , thought is not fit , that the rehearsall of the Saints lives , should shoulder out the bookes of the old and new Testament , and the reading thereof .

And hereby it came to passe ( as one of their owne Authors sai●h ) g g Quoni●m in universà christian● republicâ circa haec tanta est socordia , ut multos p●ss●m invenias ni●il magis in pa●ticulari & explicitè de hisce rebus credere , quam Ethnicum quendam Philosophum solà unius veri D●i na●urali cognitione p●aeditum . Navarrus in Enchirid. c. p. 11. nu. 22. That the greater number of people understood no more concerning God , and things divine , in particular and distinct notions , then Infidels or heathen people . And here in England , there was such a dearth of the word , in these later times of pope●y ; h h Acts and Monum . vol. 2. lib. 7. pag. 819. in Henr. 8. that some gave five markes , some more , some lesse for an English booke ; some gave a load of hay for a few Chapters of Saint Iames , or of Saint Paul in English .

Was it not now high time to reforme these things ? but Rome would neither acknowledge her errours , nor re●orme them , but rather sought to defend them , persecuting such as by authority established , laboured this reformation . How easie and safe had it beene for Rome ( had shee tendered the peace of Christendome ) to have ( according as the truth required ) permitted the u●e of the Cup , as sometime the Councell of Basil allowed it to the Bohemians , and the publike service of God in a knowne language , as was sometimes granted to the Slavons i i A●● Sylvi●s hist. B●●●m cap. 13 : as also to have abolished the worship of Im●ges , and the like , without which the Church w●s , and that very well for a long time . But Rome would not yeeld in one point , lest shee should bee suspected to have erred in the rest ; and therely the Infallibility of the Roman Oracle the Pope , bee called in question .

PA.

That which is reformed , k k Id reformatur , quod id m●n substant●à per● everat . A●ch●●p . Spalatens . Consil. redit . remaines the same in substance that it was before : And therefore the Catholike Religion , and the substantiall exercise thereof should have remayned in England upon the Reformation ; but you have set up another Religion .

PRO.

We doe not say that the Catholike Religion is reformed , for that cannot bee amended ; but that wee have reformed Religion , in that we have purged it from certaine devises and corruptions which had crept into it .

Before this reformation , Religion was like to a certaine lump● , or mas●e , consisting partly of gold , a●d partly of other refuse mettall and drosse ; to a sicke body , wherein besides the flesh , blood , and bones , and vitall spirits ; there were also divers naughty humours that had surprised the body ; l l 〈…〉 . Angl c. Sp●l●ten● cap. 85. our reformation tooke not away your gold ( to wit those fundamentall truths wherein you agree with us ) but purged it from the drosse ; it drew not the good blood from the body , but onely purged out the pestilent humour ; so that we have retained whatsoever was sound , Catholike , and primitively ancient : onely those things that were patched to the ground-soles of Religion , that wee have pared away as superfluous : wee have not removed the ancient land-markes , but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie : wee have no more er●cted a new faith in respect of the substance , and essentials thereof , than that zealous reformer Iosia , m m 2 Kings , 23. built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols , and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house .

There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church , n n D. V●hers Se●mon at Wansted pag 31. then betwixt a field well weeded , and the same field forme●ly overgrowne with weeds : or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed , and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe . And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say , it is not the same field , or the same corne ; as vaine and frivolous is it to say , the Church is not the same it was , or in the same place , after it is swept , and cleansed of the filth and dust : or to say , o o D Field of the Church booke 3. chap. 6. the Churches of Corinth and Galatia ( after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing ) were new Churches , and not the same they were before : because that in them before , the Resurrection was denied , Circumcision practis●d , discipline neglected , and Ch●is●s Apostles contemned ; which things now are not found in them ; p p Master Cade his Iustificat of the Church of England . lib. 1. cap. 1. § 5. & lib 2. cap 1. § 4. or to say Naaman was not still the same person , because before hee was a Leper , and now is cleansed .

PA.

If our Romane Church were so corrupt , whence then had you the truth ? what you had , you received from us .

PRO.

Saint Austine saith , q q Codi●●m portat Iudens undé credat Christianus , Librarij rost●i facti sunt , quomodo solent ●ervi post domin●s c●di●es ferre . Ang. in Psal. 56. ●om 8. that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets : and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants ?

The Iewish Church what time it was unsound , preserved the Scripture●Canon ; and by transcribing● and reading the same , r r Rom. 3.2 . Acts 15.2 . delivered the whole text therof tr●ly to others . And thus the Roman Church , though in many things unsound , preserved the bookes of holy Scripture , and taught the Apostles C●eed , with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same ; and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church , judicious and godly men , might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doct●ine in such things as were necessary to salvation .

And herein was Gods gracious providence s●ene , that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie , Ordination , and power of Ministerie , should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments , and deliver them over to us , though somewhat corruptly , by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained , and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies .

In a word , we received from you some truth mingled with errour ; wee have pared away your corruption , as a worme out of an Apple , and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth .

PA.

Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick , in th● Ages next before Luther ? if so , show u● where it was , and with whom it held Communion ?

PRO.

When Christ came first into the World , the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners ; this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth , Ioseph and Mary , Simeon and Anna , with others : these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood ; for they resorted to the Temple , there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned , untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation .

Now I demand , were not Ioseph and Mary , and such good people ●ound members of Gods Church , although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church , and had the Priesthood , the word , and Sacraments in their dispensing ? yet even then God had a s s Esai . 1.9 . Remnant of holy people which made up his Church ; though others went under the name thereof , and exceeded them in number . Now with these , the sound part kept an outward Communion , yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines , but condemned their grosser errours .

In like sort , we were all of one outward Communion , of one Church wherin salvation was ; and yet we shared not in those errours , which a faction in the Church ( like the Pharisees of old ) maintained . For ( as learned Dr. Field saith t t Doctor Field of the Church . booke 3. chap. 6. ) The errours which wee condemne at this day , whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction , were never generally received , nor constantly delivered , as the doctrines of the Church ; but doubtfully disputed , and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church , not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church . For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church , all men would have holden them entirely , and constantly , as they held the doctri●e of the Trinity , and other Articles of the Faith . And I have already showne from age to age , that the errours condemned by us , never found generall allowance , and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers , but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them .

And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie , as whea●e is among tares ; u u S●c Ecclesia i●●rumentis Domi●i●is conserv●ta e●t . Augus●in . ep 48. tom. 2. for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape , until the time of Reformation came , and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie : So that howsoever divers under the Papacie ( not brooknig Reformation ) maintained sundry erronious opinions , Si Concilium in haeresin la●eretur rem●ne●ent alij Catholici qui 〈◊〉 vel ublicè prout expe●●i ●t , and re●t 〈…〉 orthodoxam Occh in Dialog. part. 1. lib. 5. c. 28. Yet there were other worthies who ( living within that Communitie ) were not equally poysoned with errour , but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth , and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others .

For Answer then to the Question , Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther ? we say , It was both within the Romane Church and without it . For ( as learned Doctor Chaloner saith x x D●ctor Chaloner's tre●tise upon Credo Eccl●si●n S. Catholic. 2. part . ●●ct . 2. ) Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsis●encie , ●he one , Separate from the Church of Rome , the other Mixt and conjoyne● with it .

Separate , so it was in the Alb●genses , and Waldenses , a pe●ple who● so soone as the Chu●ch of Rome had inte●preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of d●ff●rence betweene us , and that a man could no l●nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God , by re●son of so●e Idolatrous rites and customes which sh● had establish●d● arose in France , Sav●y , and the places neere adjoyning , and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe , in a state , Sepa●at● from the Church of Rome , having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves , even unto this day . From these descended the Wicklefis●s in England , and the Hussites in Germanie , and o●hers in other Countries , who Ma●gre the ●urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did .

The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe , consisted of those , who making no visible separation from the Roman profession , as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it , did yet mislike the grosser errours , and desired a Reformation .

To answer then the qu●stion directly , where was the Pr●testants Church before Luthers time ? that is , where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine , which the Protestants now teach ? ● say , it was not onely apparant enough in the Greeke and Easterne Churches , and in such as had made an open separation from the Romish corruptions ; such as were in these Westerne parts , the W●ldenses , Wickle●i●ts and Hussites ; but it was also within the community of the Romish Church it selfe : even there ( as in a large field ) grew much good corne among tares and weeds : there ( as in a great b●rne , heape or garner ) was preserved much pure graine , mixed with store of chaffe .

Object .

I except against that you have said : Master Brereley cals y y Prot Appol . tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 13. it a Ridle , To say your Church was under the Papacie as wheat is under the chaffe , and yet the Papacie was not the true Church .

Answer .

It is no Enigma or Ridle , it being all one in effect as to say ; the Christian Church at our Saviours comming , and after , consisting of Ioseph and Mary , Simeon and Anna , the Shepherds and the Sages , Christs disciples and others , was in and under the Iewish Church , consisting of Scribes and Pharisees ( who with their false glosses , and vaine traditions had corrupted the Law of God ) was not sanum membrum , a sound part of Gods Church ; but as our Saviour saith , Like sheepe without a Shepheard , Mark 6.34 .

Object .

You say your Church was under the papacie , but the papacie was not the true Church ; by the like reason you may say , that the hidden Church of God is preserved among the Turkes : can there be a Church without an outward ministerie ?

Answer .

It followeth not , and the reason of the difference is ; because amongst the Turkes there is not that meanes of salvation ; inasmuch as they have not given their names to Christ ; but the true Church of God may bee preserved withi● the Romish Church , in as much as they have the Scriptures , though in a strange tongue , as also Baptisme● and lawfull ordination , and the like helpes , which God in all ages used , that his Elect might begathered out of the midst of Babylon .

And whereas you urge an outward and publike ministery , this maketh nothing against the Church of England , which ( for substance ) hath the same descent of outward ordination with the Roman Church , z z neither can any man shew a more certaine pedegree from his great Grand father , than our Bishops and Pastors can , f●om su●h Bishops as your Church accounts canon●call in the time of King Henry the eight , and upward : such ●a●re evidence can wee produce for an outward and publ●ke mi●istery in the Church of England , and such ordination wee hold very necessary ; and yet in case it cannot be had , Gods children by their private reading , and meditation of that which they have formerly learned , may supply a a the defect of a publike ministery , even as some Christians at this day being sl●ves in Turky or Barbarie , may be saved wi●hout externall ministery : but this is in case of extremity ; for us , we never wanted a standing ministery .

Neither did the Waldenses , Wickliv●sts , and Hussites , ( for so I call them for distinction sake ) ever want an outward and lawfull ministery amongst them , for the administration of the word and Sacraments●

Object .

You say your Professors communicated with the Roman Church , but did not partake in her errours , as you call them ; did they not joyne with them in the Mass● , and the Letanies of the Saints , and the like ?

Answer .

The thing wee say is this ; that howsoever they outwardly communica●ed with Rome , yet divers of them misliked in their heart their grosser erro●s , they groaned under the Babylonish yoake , and desired reformation , besides , many of them were ignorant of the depth and mysterie of poperie .

Object .

If your Protestant Church were in b●ing , at , and before Luthers appearing , then did such as were members thereof , either make profession thereof , or not : b b Bellarm. lib 3. de Eccles. Milit. cap. 13. § Denique . if they did , tell us their names , and where they did so : if they did not , then were they but dissemblers in Religion , according to that of Saint Paul , Rom. 10.10 . and our Saviour , Math. 10.33 .

Answer .

I will but take what your Rhemists grant , and re●o●t your owne argument : they say c c ●h●m . Annot. in 12. Apocal. ; That the Catholike Church in their time was in England , although it had no publike government , nor open free exercise of holy function : whence I argue thus ; if their Roman Church had any being at that time in England , then their Priests and Iesuits , either made publike profession of their faith , or not : if they made open profession , why then did they goe in Lay-mens habits , and lurke in corners ? if they made not open prof●ssion , then were they but dissemblers . Besides , I have already given you in a Catalogue of our professors , who within the time mentioned , witnessed that truth which wee maintaine by their writings , confessi●ns , and Martyrdom .

Now , for us wee have rejected nothing but popery , wee have willingly departed from the Communion of their errors , and additions to the faith ; but from the Communion of the Church wee never departed .

In a word , there were some who openly , and constantly withstood the errours and cor●uptions of their time , and sealed with their bloud that truth● which they with us professed : others dissented from the same errours , but did not with the like courage opp●se themselves ; such as would s●y to their friends in private : Thus d d Sic dic●rem in s●holis , s●d 〈◊〉 ( maneat inter 〈◊〉 d●v●rs●m sertio ; 〈…〉 p●obari ●x sa●ris 〈◊〉 . P●ralipo● . ad A●●at . Vrsp●rg pag. 448 edit. B●sil . 1569. I would say in the Schooles , and openly , Sed ( maneat inter nos ) diversum sentio , but keepe my Councel , I thinke the contrary .

PA.

Was not the Masse publickly used in all Churches at L●thers a●pearin● ? was Protestancie then so much as in being ? saith Master Prot. Apol. tr●ct. 2. cap. 2. sect. 2. pag. 3●● . B●e●ely .

PRO.

If by a Protestant Church , ( saith learned Doctor D●ctor Field of the C●urch 〈◊〉 second edition in h●s Appendix to the third booke . Ox●o●d 16●8 . Field , we me●ne , a Church beleeving and teaching in all poin●s as Protestants doe , and beleeving and teaching nothing but that they doe , the Latine , or West Church ( wherein the Pope ●yran●ized before Luthers time ) was and continu●d a true Protestant Church ; for it taught as we doe , it condemned the superstition wee have removed , it groaned under the yoke of tyranny which wee have cast off ; howsoever there were many in the mid●t of her , that brought in , and maintained superstition , and advanced the Popes Supremacie .

But if by a Protestant Church they understand a Church that not onely dislikes and complaines of Papal usurpation , but also abandon●th it ; and not onely teacheth all necessary and saving truth , but suff●reth none within her jurisdiction to teach otherwise ; wee confesse that no part of the Westerne Church was in this sort a P●otestant Church , till a Reformation was begun of evils formerly dislik●d .

Now whereas it is obj●ct●d , that the Masse ( wherein they say many chiefe poin●s o● their R●ligion are comprehended ) was publickely u●ed at Luthers appearing .

It is answered by Doctor Field that th● usi●g o● the Masse as the publicke Liturgie , is no good proofe ; inasmuch as manifold abuses in p●actice besides , and contrary to th● word of the Canon and the in●en●●●● of them that first compo●ed the same● have cre●t into i● ; as also sundry Apocryphall thi●gs have slipt into the publicke Service of the Church , these things will b●tter appeare by ●articular instances .

Concerning private Masses , wherein the P●iests alone doth Communicat● without the p●ople , it is contra●y to ●he Canon of ●he M●sse , saying in the ●lurall number [ Sumpsimus ] we have ●ec●ived ; g g Mi●●ale Eccles. Sarisbur●in Cano●● . an● Quo●quot ex hoc altaris participatione , &c. That all wee which in ●he participat●on of the Altar , have receiv●d the sacred body and bloud of t●y Sonne● &c.

Iohn Hossme●ster a learned man , expounding the prayers of th● Mass● , hath these w●rds ; h h C●ss●●der . cons●lt . de solita●ia M●ss●● The thing it s●lfe proclaimeth it , th●t as w●ll in the Gre●ke , as Latine Church , not onely the Priest which sacrif●●eth , but the other Priests and Deacons also , yea and the people , or at le●st some part of them did Commu●icate● which custome how it grew out of use I know not ; but surely wee should labour to bring it in againe .

By this it appeares , that the Priests receiving alone and the neglecting or excluding the communicating of others , as no● much nec●ss●ry , is indeed a poynt of Romish Religion ; but con●rary to the words of the Canon ; and ●he ancient custome of the Church : it proceeded from the i●devotion of the people , or rather ●he negl●g●nce or errour of the guides of ●he Church , that either failed to stirre them up to the perform●nce of such a duty , or made them bel●eve their Act w●s sufficient to com●unicate the benefits of Christs passion to th●m ; but this course was misliked by them of the bet●er sort .

Concerning Communion in one kind , that is another poynt of Romish Religion , supposed to be conteined in the Masse , which yet wan●s the liking and approbation of the best and wo●thiest guides of Gods Church then living : i i Cassander in Consult . d● utr●que specie . Cassander saith , It is sufficiently manifest , that the ●niversall Church of Christ untill this day , and the Westerne or Romane Church , for more than a thousand yeares after Christ , did minister the Sacrament in both kinds to all the members of Christs Church , at least in publicke , as it is most evident by innum●rable testimonies , both of Gre●ke and Latine Fathers .

It is true indeed , ●hat in case of necessi●ie , as when children , or such as were sicke and weake , were to ●eceive the Communion , th●y used to ●ip the mysticall bread into the consecrated wine , under pre●en●e of Ca●efull avoiding the danger of spilling it , and greater reverence to●ards the holy Sacrament : from this custom● wh●●● yet was ●isl●ked ( as appeares by Hildebe●● 〈…〉 k k 〈…〉 epist 64 in tom . 12. Biblioth. P●● pag 3●● . Colon. 1618. ) some proceed●d farther , and began to teach the people , that seeing the body and blood of Christ cannot be separated , in that they partake of the 〈◊〉 they partake of the other also , and that therefore it was sufficient to receive in one kind alone . N●●th●r y●t could this give satisfaction ; for howsoever the custome of communicating under one kind prevailed ; yet there wanted not such as sufficiently expressed their judgement , that communicating in both kinds , as Christ first did institute , and the Church for a long time observed , was fit and convenient , perfect and compleat , and of more efficacie , and cleerer representation , than the other under one kind alone .

Come to another maine point , the proper , and propitiatory sacrifice for the quicke and the dead , and see whether at Luthers appearing , before and after , all that used that Liturgy had such an opinion of a sacrifice .

Saint l l Off●rin●● quid●● , sed 〈…〉 Amb. o● . in H●b● . 10. Ambrose , and Saint Chrysostome m m 〈…〉 Chrysos . in Heb 〈…〉 17. , by way of correction say , Wee offer the same sacrifice , or rather the remembrance thereof .

Peter Lombard proposing the question , whether that which the Priest doth , may properly be named a Sacrifice , or Immolation , answereth ; n n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 et oblationem , qui● 〈◊〉 est , & 〈…〉 Quotid●● autem 〈…〉 Sacramento , quia in sacramento 〈…〉 illius quod 〈…〉 Pet. 〈…〉 Sem lib. 4 Dist. 12. li● . ●● .. that Christ was only once truely and properly offered in sacrifice ; and that h●e is not properly immolated or sacrifised , but in Sacrament and Representation onely .

Lyra saith , o o 〈…〉 in Heb 10. ca. that If thou say the Sacrifice of the Altar is daily offered in the Church ; it must be answered , that th●re is no reiteration of the sacrifice , but a daily commemoration of that sacrifice that was once offered on the Crosse.

Georgius Wi●elius , a man much honoured by the Emperours Ferdinand and Maximilian , p p G●●g . Wi●●lius in 〈…〉 D. Field defines the Masse to be a Sacrifice Rememorative , and of prayse and thankesgiving , where many give thankes for the price of their Redemption .

The Author of the Enchiridion of Christian Religion , publish●d in the provinciall Co●ncell of Colen , saith ; q q Enchir●d Col●ni●nse de Euch●r . t●ste coa●m . In that the Church doth offer the true body and blood of Christ to God the Father , it is meerely a representative sacrifice ; and all that is don● is but the commemorating and representing of that sacrifice which was once offered on the Crosse.

By that which hath beene said , it is cleare that the best and worthiest guides of Gods Church , both before and after Luthers time , taught not any new reall offering of Christ to God the Father as a propitiatory sacrifice to take away sinnes , but in effect as wee doe ; namely , that the sacrifice of the Altar is only the sacrifice of praise and thankesgiving , and a meere representation and commemoration , of the sacrifice once offered upon the Crosse , his being the reall sacrifice on the Crosse , ours only the Sacramentall Representation , Commemoration , and Application thereof ; so that Christ is not newly offered any otherwise , than in that hee is offered in the view of God , nor any otherwise sacrifised , than in that his sacrifice on the Crosse is commemorated and represented .

And thus the Fathers terme the holy Eucharist , an unbloody Sacrifice , not because Christ is properly , and in his substance offered therein , but because his bloody sacrifice upon the Crosse , is by this unbloody commemoration represented , called to remembrance , and applyed .

Besides these points mentioned , I have already produced witnesses in all ages and in all parts of the world , rejecting those bookes as Ap●cryphall that wee doe ; and showne , that even untill Luthers time , the Church did not admit the Canon of Scripture which the Romanists now doe , nor ever accounted those bookes canonicall , which wee thinke to bee Apocryphall : and by these instances it may appeare , That all were not Papists who held with the Masse .

Th● thing then we say is this ; that though the Masse was generally in u●e , at , ●nd b●fore Luthers time● yet diver● poynts belonging th●reunto , were not beleeved by t●e worthie●t guides in God , Church , at , and before Luthers time ; though indeed there were some in the Chu●ch ●hat so co●ceived of them , as the Romanists now doe ; and the reason hereof is this .

They were not generally received by all m●n , nor as the und●ubted determinations of the Church ; not as Dogmata fidei , but Dogmata scholae , controverted , and dive●sly disputed among the learned , & holden with great libertie of Iudgement by the greatest Doctors ; as appeares by their owne bookes of controversies , written by Bellarmine , Sua●ez , Azorius and others , which confute their owne writers almost as much as they doe Pro●estants .

Besides , had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church , all men would have holden them uniformly , entirely , and constantly , r r Doctor Fields Ap●ndix to th● fi●th Booke , part. 3. p●g. 11. as they held the doctrine of the Trinity , the Creation , the Incarnation of the Sonne of God , and other Articles of the Faith .

Objection .

If these points were held as you say , not by the best members of the Church , but by a domineering faction therein ; how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement ?

Answer .

So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall ; in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense ; so that they submitted thems●lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome .

Besides , the Church of R●me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before , as afterwards they did in the Councel of T●ent .

PA.

Our name Catholicke is ancient ; your Protestant name came not in till after Luther : Besides , it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliff● , Husse , Luther , and Calvin .

PRO.

Indeed , the name Protestant began upon the s s Sicid in . Com. lib. 6. ad ann. 1529. prot●sting of the Elector and La●d grave against the Edict : howsoever , the Faith is ancient , though the name bee not , and yet if you stand upon names , wee are called t t Acts 11.26 . Christians , and into that name were wee u u 1 Co●inth . 1.13 . Baptized ; and that is anci●nter than your Roman catholicke . Now you are called Catholickes , but it is with an aliâs , or addition , Roman-Ca●holickes ; as much as to say , Particular Vniversall , the part is the whole , one Citty the wo●ld ; and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes . Now if one Papist call another so , it is but as if one Mule should claw another . The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens , although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara . The Papists by this terme Catholicke , worke upon simple people , arguing from the one , to the other , as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane , but we tell them , as x x 〈…〉 sed Cath●●●●● non ●st . ●●tat lib. 3. Optatus did the Donatists ( who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke , as the Romanists now con●ine her to their See ) that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia , in some sort a Church , but not the Catholicke Church , but an unsound member thereof .

We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive , Catholicke , and Apo●tolick● Chu●ch ; The Lord is not farre from every ●●e of us ; y y Acts 17.27.28 . for we are also his off spring . Christ Iesus is the top of our ki●ne , and Religion the stocke . Your Pedegre m●y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Here●i●kes ; in ●espect of your Invoca●ion of Sain●s and Angels● you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici , Who ( as Saint Aust●ne saith ) z z 〈…〉 p 39 were inclined to the worship of Angels ; and were from thence , as Isidore noteth , a a 〈…〉 Isidor . origin lib 8 cap. 5. Called Angelici , because they did worship Angel● .

By your Hyperdal●a , and w●●ship given to the blessed Virgin , you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Here●ikes , whom Epiphanius b b 〈…〉 ●9 . termes Idolaters ; now th●y were called Collyridians , from the Collyrides or Cakes , which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin , sacrificing to her as to the Q●eene of heav●n .

By your doctrine of merit , and workes of supererog●tion , you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists . Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists , or ancient Puritans c c To glory of their merits . Thomas Wald●n saith , It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to ●old , d d that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meri●ing . Now the Rhemists , a sprig of this branch , main●aine ; That they doe wo●ke by their owne freewill , and thereby deserve their salvation ; as also that , f f 〈…〉 6. sect. 4. Good workes are meritorious , and the very cause of salvat●on , so farre that God should be unjust , if he rendred not h●aven for the same .

Now concerning the names of Wickl●ffe and Husse , Luther and Calvin , wherewith you press●u● ; you sh●ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which th●y held of God : for though wee rejoyce not in names drawn● from men , but in the name of Christians , into the which we are bap●ized ; yet wee know no great harme by them , nor you , we thinke ( set slaunders apa●t ) why we sh●uld bee ashamed of them , more than o●r Fathers were of Caecilian , g g of whom the D●natists c●lled th●m Caeci●ianists : but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them ( from which imp●tations they are alr●a●y cleared ) an● thei● doct●ine ●ix● with l●●ven as was the Ph●risees ; yet Saint Paul hath tau●ht us , h h to acknowledge our selves even P●●●ise●s ( i● need be , not onely Lutherans , or Waldens●s ) in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith , to wit , the Resurrection of the dead .

In a word , we esteeme of Calvin and Luther , and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men , but wee make them not Lords over our i i 2 Cor. 1.24 . faith .

PA.

What thinke you of our fore-fathers , that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it ? they were of our Religion .

PRO.

I thinke charitably of them , that they might bee saved , for many of them were well meaning men , and wanting meanes of better instruction , they were carried with the sway of the times , and as Saint Paul saith , 1. Tim. 1.13 . Did it ignorantly , like those two hundred , 2. Sam. 15.11 . who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon , knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended : they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie , not their Merit of condignity , nor their severall sorts of adoration , their Latria , Dulia , and Hyperdulia .

Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue ; and yet even in the depth of Poperie ( as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe , and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam , Arch-bishop of Canterbury ) The Priests were k k

Praec●pi●u● ut quilibet sacerdos quater in anno exponat populo vulgariter xiiij ●idei Articulo● , Decem mand●ta Decalogi , et septem gratiae Sacramenta . Provincial . Constitut. Angliae apud Gul. Lindewood . lib 1. Ignorantia Sacerdot . [ Vulgariter ] in linguá ma●e●n● & vulgari , A●glicâ videli●et Anglicis , Gallicâ Gallicis , Glossa Ibidem .

In a Councill at Cl●ffe ( anno 747 ) it was decreed , th●t the Lords Prayer & C●eed , should be read , and taught in the English tongue . Malmesb . de gest Pont. lib. 1.

enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion , and namely to expound unto them the Creed , the ten Commandements , and the Sacraments ; and that vulgariter , that is ( as the Glosse there saith ) in the vulgar and mother tongue , to wit , in English to the native English , and in French to the French-borne ; so that even in those da●ker times , there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people , and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum ; so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them ; and Faciendorum , such as the Decalogue appointed them ; and Petendorum , comprised in the Lords prayer ; and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments .

It is Lyrae's l l

Apostolus specialiter d●●it se velle loqui quinque verba ; quia predicatores d●●ent annun●iare quinque s●●luet Credenda , Agenda , Vitanda , T●mend● , Sper●nda , qui● p●●d●catio d●b●t esse de ●ijs quae pertine●●●●d s●dem , & sic hab●t●r primum ; & de hijs qu● per●●ne●t ad ●o●es , et sic habentur quatu●r● virtutes & vit●a , p●na & gloria Lyra in 1 Cor. c. 14

Scriptura 〈◊〉 unter continet Doc●●inam necessariam viatori , — quantum ad Credenda Sp●randa , & Operand● , Scotus 1. Sent. P●olog . qu 2.

conceit , that when Saint Paul saith , 1. Cor. 14.19 . Hee had rat●er in the Church speake five words with his unde●standing , then ten thousand in a strange tongue ; that those five words , were those Agenda and Credenda , which concerne our faith and manners ; as also those Vitanda , Timenda and Speranda , which the Pastors were to declare unto the people .

Besides , there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ , and namely touching his Incarnation , Passion , his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized .

Besides , wee hope the better , for that they erred in points of lesse moment and danger , such as blemished indeed , but tooke not away the Churches being : and that they held the true foundation of Religion , that is , Iustification , and Salvation , by Iesus Christ his merits onely , God dealing graciously with our fore-fathers , in that this point was ordinarily taught in their bookes of Visitation and Consolation of the sicke .

In this respect , wee hope that divers , both formerly and in our dayes , who live Papists , die Protestants : for howsoever in their life time they talke of Workes , Merits , and Satisfaction to God ; yet on their death-bed divers of them find little comfort in Crosses and Crucifixes , Pictures and Popes pardons , in Agnus Dei's , blessed G●aines , Reliques , and the like : then they renounce all meere humane satisfaction , merit and workes ; and breath out their last breath in the Protestant language of that holy Martyr Master Lambert , m m Acts and Monum . vol. 2. booke 8. pag. 1124. ad ann. 1538. who lift up his hands , such hands as he had , and his fingers ends , flaming with fire , and cried out to the people in these words ; None but Christ , none but Christ .

The example of Stephen Gar●iner Bishop of Winchester is notable to this purpose : n n ibid lib. 11. p. 1788. ad Ann. 1555. when the Bishop lay sicke on his death-bed , and Doctor Day Bishop of Chichester comming to visit him , began to comfort him , repeating to him such places of Scripture , as did expresse or import the free justification of a repentant sinner , in the blood of Christ ; hereunto Winchester replyed : What my Lord ( quoth he ) will you open that gap now ? then farew●ll altogether ; you may tell this to such as me , and others in my case , but open once this window to the people , and then farewell altogether .

La●tly , we are not simply , and in euery thing to follow our Ancestors : it was the argument of Simmachus the heathen o o Servanda est totiu● seculi fides , & sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui secuti sunt faeliciter suos . Amb●os . epistol. lib. 2. tom. 5. ; Our religion which hath continued so long is to bee retained ; and our Ancestors to be followed by us , who happily traced their fore fathers : but the Lo●d saith , p p Ezech. 20.18 . Walke yee not in the ordinances of your fore-fathers , neither after their manners , nor defile your s●lves with their Idols ; I am the Lord your God : walke yee in my statu●es , and keepe them , and not after q q 1 Pet. 1.18 . your vaine conversation which yee have received by the tradition of the Fathers , as Saint Peter speakes .

Object .

If you hope so well of our fore-fathers , why hope you not so well of us their children ?

Answer .

The parties are not alike ; besides there is great difference of the times , then and now ; the former were times of ignorance , these are the dayes wherein light is come into the world ; in what they erred , they erred ignorantly , following the conduct of their guides , doing as they taught them ; and so were mislead as Saint Austine saith , r r Hoc inquies majo●es nostri à suis parentibus accepe●●●t ; respondetur , sed errantes ab errantibu● aut calumniantibus . Aug. cont. Crescon . grama●at . li. 3 c. 33. tom. 7. Errantes ab errantibus , by their blind guides : but upon better information wee presume , they would have reformed their errours . Now he is more to bee pitied who stumbleth in the darke , than in the day-light ; men are now admonished of their er●rours , offer is made to them to be better instructed , so that their censure will bee heavier , if either they dote on their owne opinions , unwilling to bee instructed in the reveled truth : or after sufficient knowl●dge and conviction , for some worldly respects , they wilfully and obstinatly persist in their old errors ; and ( which is farre worse ) hate and persecute the maintainers of the truth .

Saint Cyprian saith , s s Si quis de an●ecesso 〈…〉 , vel ●●noran●èt , vel simplicitèr , non hoc obser●avit & t●nuit , quod n●s d●mi●us f●cere exem●●o & m●gist●rio suo doc●it , potest simplicitati e●us de ind●lgentia domini 〈◊〉 ●o●●edi : nobis ver● non po●erit ignos●s , qui nu●c à Domino ad●oniti & inst●u●li ●umas . Cyprian epist. 63. Pan●el . num. 13. in ali● edit . lib. 2. epist. 3. If any of our Predecessors , either of ignorance of simplicity , hath no● observed and held that which our Lord hath taught us by his word and example , by the Lords mercy pardon might bee granted to his simplicitie : but to us that are now admonished and instructed of the Lord , pardon cannot bee granted .

Saint Augustine t t Alla ●●usa est ●orum qui in istos haereticos imprudentèr in●urrunt , ipsam esse Christi e●clesiam ex●stimante● ; alia co●um qui noverunt non ●sse Catholic●n . Augustin . de Bap● . 〈◊〉 . Donat. cap. 4. . puts a difference betwixt Heretikes , and them that beleeve Heretikes ; and he saith farther : u u Qui se●tentiam suam 〈…〉 ●als●m ac perversam , n●ll● pe●tinaci anim●sit●te defendunt ; praesert●● quam non auda●●● presumptionis ●ue pepere●unt , seda seductis , atque i● err●rem lapsis parenti●●s acc●per●nt , quaeru●t autem ca●t● sollicitudine 〈…〉 . A●g●st . ●pist. 162. ●om. 2. They that defend an opinion false and perverse without pertinacious selfe-mindednesse ; especially , which not the boldn●sse of their owne presumption hath begotten , but which from their seduced and erronious Parents , they have received , and themselves doe seeke the truth with care and diligence , ready to amend their errour , when they find the truth ; they are in no wise to bee reckoned among Heretikes : this was the case of our Fathers under the Papacie .

In a word , our Fathers they lived in those errours of ignorance , not of obstinacie , and knew not the dangerous consequence of them ; such men by particular repen●ance of sinnes knowne , and generall repentance of unknowne , might by Gods mercie be saved .

Object .

If holding the foundation will serve , as you seeme to say in the case of our fore-fathers , then we may safely obtaine salvation in the Church of Rome .

Answer .

This followeth not ; for the Church of Rome buildeth many things which by consequent destroy the foundation : uu uu Doctor 〈◊〉 in his 〈◊〉 Advertisment 〈◊〉 to his 〈◊〉 of the Old Religion . Rome doth both hold the foundation , and destroy it ; she holds it directly , destroyes it by consequent . As the Galathians held the foundation ( to wit , salvation by Iesus Christ ) and yet withall held a necessity of joyning Circumcision with Christ ; which doctrine , by consequence destroyed the very foundation , for so Saint Paul wrote unto them , Galat. 5.2.4 . If they were circumcised , Christ profited them nothing , h●e became of none effect unto them , they were fallen from grac● . In like sort , Poperie opposeth the Faith , not directly , but obliquely , not formally , but virtually , not in expresse termes , but by consequence .

Poperie overthrowes the foundation by consequence , whiles it brings on so many stories of unsound adjections , and corrupt super-additions , upon the ancient ground-sole of Religion , as are like to ●ndanger the whole frame . The learned , and acute Doctor , Doctor Hall , now Lord Bishop of Exceter , gives severall instances hereof . x x Doctor Hall , Decad 6. epist. 4. to Doctor M●b●u●ne . Poperie overthroweth the truth of our Iustification , whiles it ascribes it to our owne works : the All-sufficiencie of Christs owne Sacrifice , whiles they reiterate it daily by the hands of a Priest . Of his Satisfaction , while th●y hold a payment of our utmost farthings , in a devised Purgatorie . Of his Mediation , while they implore others to ayde them , not onely by their Intercession , but their Merits ; suing not onely for their prayers , but their gifts : the value of the Scriptures , whiles they hold them unsufficient , obscure in points ess●ntiall to salvation , and bind them to an uncertaine d●pendance upon the Church . Now for the simpler sort , whil●s in truth of heart , they hold the maine principles which they know ; doubtl●sse , the mercy of God may passe over their ignorant weakenesse in what they cannot know . For the other , I feare not to say , that many of their errours are wilfull . The light of truth hath shined out of heaven to them , and they loved darkenesse more than ligh● . Thus farre that learned ●ishop .

PA.

The Protestants ( at ●ast many of them ) con●●sse there may be salvation in our Church ; we absolutely deny there●s salv●tion in theirs : therefore it is saf●r to come to ours , than to s●ay in theirs , to be where almost all grant salvation , than where the greater part of the world deny it .

PRO.

This point is fully cleered by the judicious Author y y M●ster Fishers Rel●ti●n o● his ●hi●d Confer●nce , ●●●wered b● R. B. C●●pl●ine to t●e R●●ht R B. o● St. D●●ids . of the Answer to Fishers Relation of his third Confer●nce .

Vpon this very point saith h●e z z Ib●d pag. 68.69 . , ( that we acknowl●dge , An honest ignorant Papist may be saved ) they worke upon the advantage of our Charitie , and their owne want o● it , to abuse the weake ; but if they would speak truly , and say , many Protestants indeed con●esse , there is salvation possible to bee attained in the Romane Church , but yet the errours of that C●u●ch a●e so many ( and some , such as weaken the foundation ) that it is very hard to goe that way to heaven , especially to them that have had the truth manifested unto them ; the heart of this Argument were broken .

The force of this Argument lyes herein ; that wee and ou● adv●rsaries consent , that there is salvation to some in the Romane Church . What ? would you have us an malicious ( at least as rash ) as your selves are to us , and denye you so much as possibilitie of salvation ? if we should , we might make you in some things straine for a proofe . But we have not so learned Christ , as either to returne evill for evill in this h●adie course , or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly Soules , who hold the foundation , Christ Iesus , and survey not the building .

But this was an old tricke of the Dona●ists who shut up the Church in Africke , as they doe now in Rome , and the Romane See . For in the point of Baptisme ( Whether that Sacrament was true in the Catholicke Church , or in the part of Donatus ) they exhorted all to bee Baptized among them : Why ? Because both parts granted , that Baptisme was true among the Donatists ; which that peevish sect most unjustly denied the sound part , as Saint Austine a a 〈◊〉 apud Donati●●●● B●pti●mum . & ●lli ass●runt , & nos conced● 〈◊〉 &c Augustin . lib. ●●de ●aptismo cont. Donat. cap. 3. delivers it . I would aske now , had not the Orthodoxe Bap●isme among them , because the Donatists denyed it injuriously ? or should the Orthodoxe against truth , h●ve denied Baptisme among the Donatists , to cry qui●tance with them ?

Besides , what have they gained by some Protes●ants confession , saying tha● some might be saved in the Romane Church ? this terme , [ Might be Saved ] gr●nts but a Possibilitie , to some we●ke ones , no sure or safe way to salva●ion . For a safe way they can hardly goe , who pertinaciously adhere to their errours , having sufficient meanes to be bet●er informed . Howsoever , their reckon●ng is like to bee ●he heavier , who for some by-respects oppose a know●e truth , which they either doe , or might beleeve , if their hearts were upright , and not perversly obstinate , and not onely so , but draw other we●ke ones to their bent . Saint Augustine saith , b b Si mi●i vide●etur unus & id●m Hereti●us & Haereti●●●redens homo , &c August●● de ut●lit . credendi cap. 1. tom . 6 There will be ever a difference betweene an Hereticke , and a plaine well meaning man th●t is mis-led , and b●leeves an Hereticke . God pittieth the blind , that would faine see and cannot ; but wi●l he pitty them that may see and will not ? that harden themselves in their affected wilfull blindnesse ? he delivered Ionas from d●owning in the bottome of the Sea , will you plung your selves therefore , to see if God will deliver you ? Because we grant , c c Bishop V●●ers Sermon it Wins●●d , of ●he Vn●●e of Faith . pag. 26. ( saith that most learned Prelate , Doctor Vsher ) that some may scape death in Cities , and Streets , in●ected with the Plagu● , will you therefore be so foole hardy , after warning giv●● of the present danger , as to chuse to take up your lodging in a Pest-house ? if you doe , we may well say , in our C●arity , Lord have m●rcie upon you : but you may justly feare , that you dangerously tempt the Lord , to send you Strong delusion to beleeve a lye , d d 2 Th●s . 2.10.11 12. b●cause you received not the love of the truth , to beleeve it .

L●stly , if we grant you a possibility of salvation , and you deny the same to us ( which yet is not yours to give , or to withhold ; ) ●h●s shewe●h not tha● you have mo●e truth on your side than wee , but rather that wee have more charity than you , who without truth or modesty ( a● our learned Prov●st of Queenes Colledge in Oxford hath showne in his Answer to Charity mistaken ) dare af●●rme , that Protestancie destr●yeth salvation .

B●● l●t n●t the Protestant b●e discouraged with this h●●dy censure ; for wee are confident , that the faith p●o●essed in the Church of England is the Catholike , O●th●doxe , and saving ●aith , and we can shew good ●eason ●o● it .

For to b●leeve the Scripture of the two T●staments , to b●l●●ve the th●ee C●eeds , in the sense of the ancient P●●●itive Chu●ch , to receive the foure great generall Coun●●ls , so m●●h magnified by antiquity ; to admit , What ever the Fathers for the first five hundred yeares with joynt consent agreed upon , to bee bele●ved as a necessary point 〈◊〉 salvation , or at least-wise to bee humbly silent , not presuming to condemne the same , is a faith , in which to live and die , cannot but give salvation , specially being accompa●ied with a godly life , and a faithfull death .

Now whether it bee wisedome in such a point as Salvation is , to fors●ke a Church , in the which the g●ou●d of salvation is f●●me , to follow a Church , in which it is possibl● o●e may bee saved , but very probable one may doe wo●s● , if he looke not well to the foundation , judge ye●● I am sure Saint Augustine h h thought it wa● not , and judged it A great sinne , in point of salvation , for a man to preferr● 〈…〉 , incertainties and naked ●os●ibilities b●fore an 〈◊〉 and certai●e course . Now this ●ul● of Sa●nt Augustines makes for us ; for wee goe upon cert●in●●●s , an● walke in the Via tu●a , the safe way , ●s th●t le●rn●d Knight , and my worthy good 〈…〉 hath showne at large .

〈…〉 b●ene said , the vanity of the 〈…〉 for ( as Master ●●del saith , in hi● 〈…〉 Wad●sworths motives ) by the 〈…〉 b●tter to have become a Iewish Pro●elite , i● th● Apo●●les time , then a Christian : for the Christians acknowledged the Iewes to bee the people of God , and s●iled them brethren , notwithstanding their zeale to the Ceremonies , and traditions of their Fathers , excused their ignorance , and ba●e with ●hem . Whereas on the contrary they called those that professed Christ , Heretikes●nd ●nd S●ctaries , accursed th●m , drew them out of their Synagogues , imprisoned them , as you doe now the Protestants .

By like reason a Pagan in Saint Augustines time , should rather have made hims●lfe a Christian among the Donatists , then with the Catholikes . For ( as it is already noted ) the Catholikes granted the Donatists Baptisme to be true , and accounted them bre●hren : the Donatists on the contrary l l pi●●●8 ●8 . renounced their brother-hood and baptisme both , rebaptized such as fell to their side , used these formes of speech to their friends , m m Co●ule animae 〈…〉 . A●gus● . de 〈…〉 . lib. 2. 〈◊〉 . 7. Save thy soule , become a Christian , like to those termes used by our Romish Reconcilers at this day .

PA.

Prove what you say , that in poynt of Religion you goe the safe way .

PRO.

This appeares to be true , in that divers of your side , the moderate and sober sort at least , n n

〈…〉 against 〈…〉 . And Sir 〈…〉 1● .

doe oftentimes grant our Conclusions , and that in sundry things our course is the safer . As in making no Image of God . In trusting onely in the merits of Christ . I● worshipping none but the Trinity . In directing our p●ayers to our Lord I●sus Christ alone . In allowing Ministers to marry . In divers other points also , many of your side , say the same with the Protestants , as it is already shown in this trea●ise .

And therefore , if you will force the Argument , to make that the safest way of salvation , which differing parts agree upon ; why doe you not joyne with u● , since for the Positive , and Affirmative Articles of our Religion , no● on●ly the m●st , but al● , Pr●t●stant and Pap●●● ag●e● therein ?

For example s●ke , 〈◊〉 C●alo●er's 〈◊〉 Credo Eccle●i●m S. Catholicam . Pag. 8● 85. Wee agree on bo●h sides , the Scrip●ures to be the R●le of Faith , the bookes of the old Testam●nt written in Hebrew to bee Canonicall , that wee are justified by Faith , that God hath made two Receptacl●s for mens s●●les aft●r death , Heaven and Hell , that God may ●e wo●shipped in spirit wi●hout an Image , tha● we are ●o pray unto God by Christ , that there bee two Sacram●n●s , that Christ is really rec●ived in the Lords Su●per , that Christ made one oblation of himselfe upon the Crosse , for the Redemption , Propi●iation , and Satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world .

In a word , where they take the Negative part , as in with-holding the Cup from the Lai●ie , fo●bidding the administration of the Sacraments in the vulgar tongue , and restraining the marriage o● P●iests , yet even in th●se they condescend unto u● , for t●e lawfulnesse of the thing● in themselves , and in resp●ct of the law of God , an● o●pose them onely in rega●d of their conveniencie , and for that the Church of Rome hath otherwise orda●ned .

But see , our ●ffi●mations content them not . To the Scriptures the● add● and equalize unwrit●en Traditions ; to ●he Hebr●w Canon , the Apocrypha ; to Faith in the act of Iu●●ification , works ; to Heaven and Hell , Purga●o●ie , Limbus Patrum , and Limbus Puero●um ; to the wo●ship of God in spirit , Images ; to Prayer to God by Chri●t , I●vocation and Intercession of S●in●s ; to Bap●isme and ●he Lords Supper , five other Sacram●nts ; to the Reali●ie of Christ in the Sacramen● , his Co●porall presence ; to t●e Sacrifice of Ch●ist upon the Cros●e , ●he Sacrifice in t●e Masse ; wit● other like ; and these wee deny , as be●ng Corrupt Additions to the Faith .

These be our grounds wherein we enter-common with them ; and these be their additions and improvements which they have raised and enclosed upon the Lords Freehold . Let us bri●fely survey them both : Bell●●m●ne is confid●nt that The Apostles never used to Preach openly to the people other things than the Articles of the Apostles Cre●d● the ten Comman●●m●nts , and some of the Sacraments : because ( saith he ) p p 〈…〉 . B●lla . de 〈◊〉 D●i . lib. 4. c●p 11. § Primum . these are simply necessary and profitable for all men ; the rest besides , such as that a man may be saved without them .

If one worship God without an Image , they will not deny but that this spirituall worship is acceptable to God . If one call upon God alone , by the onely mediation of Christ , they will not say that this d●votion is fruitlesse . If one say the Lords Prayer , or other devotions in the vulgar tongue , they will not deny but that such Prayers as a●e made with understanding and in a knowne languag● may be fruitfull and effectuall .

For Lyra saith , q q Si populus int●llig●● orationem Sac●rdoti● , m●lius ●educitur in D●um● & d●voti●s ●●sp●nd●t 〈◊〉 . Lyra in 1 Cor. 14. that If the people understand the prayer of the Priest , they are better brought to the knowledge of God , and they answ●r Amen with greater devotion .

Cardinal Cajetan who had often performed the publike service in an unknowne tongue in the Church , yet contrary to his practice professeth , r r 〈…〉 doc●rinâ ●a●etur , quod melius ●st ad Eccl●si● 〈◊〉 , orati●nes publi●as quae ●ud●●nte p●p●lo 〈◊〉 lingu● 〈…〉 & p●pulo quam 〈…〉 . 〈…〉 in c●p. 141. ad Co●inth . ve●s . 17. It is better , by Saint Pauls doctrine , for the ●difying of the Church , that publike prayers were made in a vulgar tongue , to bee understood indifferently by Pri●sts and people , ●han in Latine .

If a man receive the Sac●ament in both kinds , they will not , I suppose deny , but that it is very comfortable to receive bo●h p●rts o● the Eucharist .

Alexander of Hales , the first and greatest of all the Schoole m●n , pr●fesse●h ; s s Illa tamen quae ●st sub d●●bus est majori● me●i●i● t●m ratione augmenta●ionis d●vo●ionis , tum ratione fide● dilatationis ac●ualis Hale●s . in 4. Sent qu ●● . membr. 1. that Though the order of receiving in one ki●d b● suf●icient , yet the order of both kinds is of mor● merit , for inc●ease of devotion and faith .

If o●e pe●forme the best wo●kes hee can ( which wee also require ) and stand not upon the point of me●it , but only upon the mercy of God , as we doe , this likewise serves . to justi●ie our doctrine ; for they themselves hold it a Mans safest course , t t 〈◊〉 est 〈…〉 benignitate 〈◊〉 Bell●r . de Iusti●●c . l●b . 5. 〈◊〉 . 7 §. Si● . not to trust to his owne merits , but wholly and solely to cast himselfe on the m●rcy of God in Iesus Christ .

Now this justifies our Religion , and shewes that it is su●●icient to salvation ; in as much as the grounds thereof ( setting aside the matters in question betweene us ) are fully able to instruct a man in all points necessary to his salvation , both how to live religiously , and to die comfortably .

Hence also it followeth , that ( by their owne conf●ssion ) the controve●ted points are unnecessary , and superfluous ; in as much as a man may bee saved , who neither knowes nor beleeves , nor practises these additions and excesses of theirs .

Object .

You talke of our excesses , and conceale your owne defects : now ( as the Arch-bishop of Spalato saith ) n n 〈…〉 1. nu. ● . 9 , 10. 〈…〉 Docto 〈…〉 in De 〈…〉 cap. 47 nu 12. Heresie consists in the defect , not in the excesse of beleeving ; and he is an Heretike , who falleth short in his faith , by not bel●eving something that is written , and not hee that abounds in his faith , by beleeving more than is written : now you faile , in that you scant the measure of your faith .

Answer .

The Analogie and integrity of faith is hurt and broken by Addition , as well as Subtraction , by Diseases as well as by Maimes . We are forbidden , 〈◊〉 4.2 . Revelat. 22.18 . under the same p●naltie , either to adde , or diminish ought from Gods word : Faith is of the nature of a rule , or certaine measure , to which if any thing be added , or taken from it , it ceaseth to be that Rule . Faith ( saith Tertullian 〈…〉 cap. 14. ) Is contained in a Rule ; to know nothing beyond it , is to know all th●ngs . And a little before , z z 〈…〉 . Ib. ca. 8. This first of all wee beleeve , that no more ought to be b●leeved , as necessary to all . V●rtue is in the mean● , vice as well in the exces●e , as in the defect in our body the superabundance of humours is as dangerous as lacke of them : as many dye of Plethories as of Consumptions ; a hand or foote which hath more fingers , or toes than ordinary , is alike monstrous , as that which wanteth the due number . A foundation may bee as well overthrowne , by laying on it more than it will beare , as by taking away that which is necessary to support the building : Errours of addition are dangerous , as appeares by these instances following . The Samaritanes feared the Lord , and served their owne Gods , 2. King . 17.33 . The Galathians beleeved the Gospell , yet retained also , and observed the legall Ceremonies , Galath. 4.9 . a a August . Haeres. 85. Helvidiu● held that blessed Mary had other children unto Ioseph her husband , after her sonne Iesus ; here was an excesse of beliefe , for hee beleeved more than was revealed : this opinion of Helvidius , although it be not denied in the Scripture , yet it is erroneous , in as much as it is not therein affirmed , neither can it bee thence deduced by any good consequence ; and therefore the Church holding that shee was a pure Virgin both before the birth of Christ , and that shee also continued a Virgin all her life after , condemned Helvidius for an Heretike : now why were the Helvidians adjudged Heretikes ? surely because they beleeved more than was reveled in the word , and would have thrust that on the Church for an Article of faith , which had no ground at all .

And this is your case , you over-●each in your beliefe as the Helvidian Heretikes did : witnesse your tenets of Transubstantiation , adoration of Images , Invocation of Saints , Purgatory , the Popes supremacie , and the like ; wherein your faith is monstrous , b b 2. Sam. 21.20 . like the G●ant of Gath , who had on every hand sixe fingers , and on every foote sixe toes : and so it is with you ; who in the new Creed of Pope Pius the fourth , have shuffled in more Articles of faith than ever God , and his Catholike Church made .

Neither doe wee fall short in our beliefe : for wee measure our faith , by the standard and rule of Gods written word● now since it jumpeth with the rule , it neither faileth in defect , nor over-reacheth in excesse . Now by this time I hope I have performed the taske which I undertooke .

PA.

You have indeed given in a Catalogue of visible Professors in some part of Christendome , but what is this to the whole universall Church ?

PRO.

Very much ; for these particular congregations serve to make up the whole state of Christ his Church militant here on earth : now this Church farre and wide dispersed , hath in her particular members ( for substance of doctrine ) taught as wee doe .

To begin with the Easterne Church amongst the Grecians and Armenians .

The Grecians held , c c Nilus Episcop. Thessalon de Primatu P●pae . B●ri●am de Primatu Pap● . & Guido C●rmelit . de haeres . Grae●or . cap. 3. & 20. that the Romane Church had not any Supremacie of Iurisdiction , authoritie and grace , above , or over all other Churches .

They celebrated the Sacrament of the Eucharist in both kinds , d d Graeci asserunt , esse necessarium sub utr●que spe●ie communicandum . Prateol . de haeres . l●b. 7. as we doe .

They denied that there was any Docent nullum esse Purgatorium . Id Ibid. Purgatorie fire .

They denied f f Docent ext●emae unctionis sacramentum aegrotantibus non prod●sse ad sal●tem corporis . Id. Ibid. Extreame unction to bee a Sacrament properly so called .

They g g Master Brie●wood in his Enquiry of Religions cap 15. reject the Religious use of Massie Images , or Statues , admitting yet Pictures or plaine Images in their Churches .

The Armenians denie h h Non credunt quod sit sub speciebus panis & vini ve●e & realiter verum corpus & sanguis Christi , sed tantum in similitudine & signo Guido Episcop. in sum de ●aeres . cap. 22. the true body of Christ to be really in the Sacrament of the Eucharist under the Species of Bread and Wine .

They denie i i Guido loco alleg . & Prateol . lib. 1. de Haeres . the vertue of conferring grace , to belong to the Sacraments Ex Opere operato .

They denie the Popes Supremacie , and are subject to two of their owne Patriarches whom they call k k ●rateol ibid. Catholicks .

They l l Pra●●ol . ibid. reject Purgatorie .

They have their publicke Service in their m m Brocard descriptio terrae sanctae . teste Ed●ardo Brierwood loco citato . vulgar language .

The North-east Church , amongst the Russians and Muscovites , as they were converted to Christianitie by the Grecians ; so have they ever since continued of the Greeke Communion and Religion .

They n n Totum sacrum vernacul● lingu● apud Moscovitas peragi solet . Sigismund . de reb. Moscovit . pag. 46. tit . de Decimis . have their divine Service in their owne vulgar language .

They o o Purgatorium nullum credun● . Ibid. ti● . Purgator . reject Purgatorie .

They communicate in both p p Communicant sub utràque specie . Ibid pag. 40 tit . Communio . kinds .

They denie the spirituall efficacie of q q Sacranus de error . Ruthenor . cap. 2. & Prateol . de haeres lib 16. Extreame unction .

To proceede , now to the South-Church amongst the Habassines , or mid land Aethiopians : the Character of their Religion is this ; as I find it in Ma●hew Dresser , who reports it from Francis Alvarez , a Portugal Priest , and sometimes Legat into Aethiopia .

They communicate in both r r Sacramentum integrum tam Clerici qu●m La●ci accipiunt . Math. Dresser de Religione sub precioso Ioanne . pa. 525. kinds .

They use no s s Id. Ibidem . Extreame unction .

They t t Sanctos venerantur , sed non invocant ; Matri Christi honorem mag●um tribuunt , s●d neque adorant , n●que op●m eius implorant . Ibid. pag. 526. reverence the Saints , but they pray not unto them ; they doe much honour the mother of Christ , but they neither adore her , nor crave her mediation .

They have their Liturgie , or Church Service in their owne u u Alvarez . cap. 11. vulgar language .

They x x Math. Dr●sser . loco citato . pag 529. have a Patriarcke of their owne , who is confirmed and consecrated by the Patriarcke of Alexandria , on which See they depend , and not on the Romane .

In the Westerne Church we have the consent of the Waldenses in France , the Wicklevists in England , commonly called Lollards , and Thaborites in Bohemia .

Here be then the Greeke and Latine Church ; the Churches in the the East , West , North , and South ; all of them teaching ( for substance of doctrine ) as we doe .

I know indeed , that Bellarmine sleighteth these Churches of Graecia , Armenia , Russia , and Aethiopia , saying , y y Bellarm. de verb. Dei . lib. 2. cap. ult. in fi●e We are no more moved with their examples , than with the examples of Lutherans and Calvinists ; for they bee either Hereticks or Schismaticks . So that all Churches ( be they never so Catholicke and ancient ) if they subscribe not to the now Roman● Faith , are either Schismaticall or H●reticall . But we may not be so uncharitable to these afflicted Churches . For ( as learned Bishop Vsher saith ) z z Bishop Vshers Sermon of the Vnitie of Faith . pag. 28. if wee should take a survey of these Churches , and put by the points wherein they did differ one from another , and gather into one body the rest of the Articles wherein they all did generally agree , we should find , that in those propositions which without all controve●sie are universally ●eceived in the whole Christian world , so much truth is con●eined , as being joyned with holy obedience , may be sufficient to bring a man unto everlasting salvation .

Object .

I except against the Greeke Church , for that it denieth the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Son of God .

Answer .

See the learned Answer to Master Fishers Relation of his third Conference , by R. B. pag. 5. Every errour denieth not Christ the foundation . Indeed it would have grated the foundation , if they had so denied the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne , as that they had made an inequalitie betweene the Persons ; but since their forme of speech is ; a a Spiritum verò sanctum & ex Pa●re , et Spiritum patris nominamus , ex silio a●tem Spiritum sanctum non dicimus● sed spiritum filij nomin●mus . D●mascen . lib. 1. ●id . Orthod c●p. 11. that the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father by the Sonne , and is the spirit of the Sonne , and since , ( as the Master of the Sentences saith ) b b Sed cum non sit aliud Spir●tum sanctum esse Patris vel Filij , qu●m esse à Patre et Fi●io : etiam in hoc in eandem nobiscum Fi●et s●ntentiam convenire videntur , li●et in ve●bis di●●●●tiant . Magist. 1. Sent. Dist. xi . D. Non est aliud , It is not another thing to say , the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Father and the Sonne , then that he is , or proceeds from the Father and the Sonne , in this they seeme to agree with us , In eandem fidei sententiam , upon the same sentence of Faith , though they differ in words : Since I say , they thus expresse themselves , they may continue to bee a true Church , though erronious in the point mentioned .

In like sort , Scotus ( following his Master Lombard ) saith , c c Pate●et ips●m contr●rietatem non esse veracitèr real●m , sicut est vocal●● . Scotus in 1. S●nt . Dist xi . qu. 1. that The difference betweene the Greekes and the Latines in this point , is rather Verball , in the manner of speech , than Reall , and materiall .

Besides , it seemes by the same Scotus , that the Greeks held no other Heresie , d d Sed quis audet hunc auctorem D●mascenū , Basilium , Gregorium , & similes patres Graecos arguere haeres●os . Id. Ibid. then Saint Basil and Gregory Nazianzene held , whom yet no man durst ever yet call Hereticks ; so that you must give us the famous Greeke Church againe .

PA.

I have yet divers e e Parsons , third part of the three conversions . In his examen of Foxes Calender . Chap. 6. num. ● & nu. 9. & nu. 11. exceptions to take at your Catalogue , as also at your English Martyrologie ; for you have named out of Foxe , some for Martyrs , who were very meane persons , namely , Iohn Claydon , a Curriar of Leather , Richard Howden a Wooll-winder ; as also some , by name , Thomas Bagley , for a Martyr , who was a married Priest .

PRO.

What though some of them were tradesmen ? did not Peter stay divers daies in Ioppa , with one Simon a Tanner , Act. 9.43 . Was not that godly convert Lydia a seller of Purple ? Act. 16.14 . Hath not God chosen the base things of the world to confound the mighty ? 1 Cor. 1.27 . &c.

Besides , they were no such base people ; for among others , I produced Sir Iohn Old Castl● , Lord Cobham , and Sir Roger Acton knight , burnt for Religion in the raign of king Henry the fift : and in Queen Maries daies , there were five Bishops , one and twentie Divines , and eight Gentlemen who suffered for the truth .

Lastly , what though some of them were simple people ? f f Ruffin . Eccles. His● . l● . 1. cap. 3. Ruffinus makes mention of a heathen philosopher at Nice , who through his great skill in the art of Logick , wound himselfe ( Adder-like ) out of the bishops arguments , that they were not able to put him to silence , until there rose up in the Councel a simple man who knew nothing but Christ and him crucified , who with some blunt Interrogatories so amazed the Philosopher , that not onely as a dumb man he had not a word to reply , but yeelded himselfe to the truth which the plaine man had uttered . Yea but they were married priests , whom we produce for martyrs ; what then ? Gregory Nazianzen brings in his Father , who was Bp. of the same See , speaking thus of him ; g g Gr●gor . Nazianz. in Carmine d● vitá ●u● . Edit. Morel . Paris . tom. 2. Nondum tot annisunt tui , quotjam in sacris mihi sunt peracti victimis : that is ; the yeares of thine age , are not so many , as of my Priesthood . Whereby it is cleere that Gregorie Nazianzen was born to his father , af●er the time of his holy Orders . h h Doctor Hall the Honor o● the ma●ried Clergie . lib. 2. sect. 8. And least any man should susp●ct that this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , this nondum , or , not a● yet , might reach on●ly to the bi●th , not to the begetting of Gregorie Nazianzen , so as perhaps hee might be born after his fathers o●d●rs● and begotten before th●m ; it is further shown ( which makes all sure and plaine ) that Gorgonia and Caesarius the sister and brother of this Gregory , were by the same father begotten af●erwards ; as is evide●t both by that verse of Nazianzen , who speaking of his mother , as th●n childles when sh● begged him of God , i i Nazianz Ibid. layes ; Cupiebat illa masculum soetum domi Spectare , magna ut pars cupit mortalium .

And the cleare testimony of Elias Cretensis , saying , k k Quamvi● enim si nari vitatem●pectes , &c. Eli●s Cr●t●ns . in orat . G●eg . Naz. 19. Although if you regard his birth , he was not the onely child of his Parents , forasmuch as after him both Gorgonia , and Caesarius were borne .

Now if this Bishop after holy Orders conversed conjugally with his wife , and that without the Churches scandall ; then is it not any disparagement to some of our Martyrs that they were married Priests .

PA.

Fox nameth some for Martyrs , who afterwards were living .

PRO.

There might be some that received the sentence of death , and martyrdom , and yet the same parties upon occasion , and mediation , might come to be reprieved , or released , and this not come to Mr. Foxe his knowledge . This cannot discredit the whole story , taken for the most part out of your owne registers , and other credible witnesses .

PA.

You have put some into your Catalogue who were excommunicate persons , and condemned to bee burnt for Heretikes : as namely Husse , and Wickliffe , whose body was digged up forty yeares after his buriall , and burnt by the Popes command .

PRO.

Indeed they were Heretikes in such manner as Christ was called and condemned for a l l Math. 26.65 . Blasphemer ; or as Saint Paul saith m m Acts 24.14 . , After the way which they call heresie , so worship we the God of our Fathers , beleeving all things which are written in the Law and the Prophets .

Indeed , if this be heresie , to acknowledge no other foundation , then that which God himselfe hath laid , no other Mediatour then Christ Iesus , nor any expiation but by his blood , nor any propitiatory sacrifice but his death , nor any satisfaction to Gods justice but his obedience , nor any rule to guide us infallibly to salvation , but his word contained in the holy Scriptures ; if this I say be heresie , then may they and we bee so reputed .

Now to discover who be Heretikes indeed , let the Reader looke to the voice of the Church before these odds grew , and see which way the Church inclined . For though in the Primitive Ages thereof , the writers could not speake so expresly and punctually against heresies untill they sprang up , yet even then they delivered such grounds , as might serve to over-throw the errours and superstition which afterwards arose .

Yea but our Professors have beene excommunicated and condemned , so was the blind man in the Gospell , whom our Saviour cured , he was cast out of the Synagogue , n n

Iohn 9.34 .

Ejecerunt ●um ●oras , id est , ● societate aliorum homi●um excommuni●●verunt . Ly●a . in loc.

and yet Christ tooke him into his protection , for the good profession he made .

It might be that in those papall censures , the keyes were mistaken , or the wards of the locke changed , and then Errante clave Ecclesia , their censures did not bind .

The Ephesine Latrocinie ( for so it was called , Synodus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) o o Act Conci●lab . Ephes. citata in Actis Conc. Chalced Act. pag. 57. b. adjudged and condemned Flavianus , an holy and Catholike B●shop , for an Heretike , under that censure Flavian●● died , nay was martyred p p Caesus Flavianus dol●re pl●ga●um migravit ad Dominum . Ib. cap. 12. by them : the holy Councell at Chalced●● after the death of Flav●anus , loosed that band , wherewith the Latrocinous Conspirators at Ephesus , thought they had fast tyed him , but because their Key did erre , they did not in truth , they honoured and proclaimed Flavianus for a Saint and Martyr , q q Que ( Synodus Chalced . ) Flaviano palmam morti● tribuit gloriosae . Edict . Valen. & Mart. in Chalced. Concil. Act. 4 , p●g. 86. a. Et Flavian●s injuste quidem in vi●● condem●ut●s , juste p●st mortem revocatus est à be●to Leone & sanctà Synodo Chalcedonens● Iust●●ian . Edict . §. Invenimus . whom the faction of Dioscurus had murdered for an heretike . By which example and warrantie of that holy Councell , our Church of latter time , restored to their Pr●stine r r Histor combu●●ionis Buceri & Fagij & re●●●tu●ion●s eorum . Argentinae . 1560. dignity and honour , to Flaviani in their age , Bucer and F●gius after their death ; what time that papall conspir●cie had not only with an erring Key bound , but digged up their bodies out of their graves , and burned them to ashes .

The papall faction hath beene but too peremptory in their censures ; ●hey were farre from the moderation of the Curat in Paris , who being to publish an Excommunication , what time there was great difference between the Emperou● Fredericke the second , and Pope Innocent the fourth , he thus acquitted himselfe . Give eare ( saith he to his s s Morney of the Mystery of Iniquitie . Progress . 51. Parishioners ) I have received commandement to pronounce the solemne sentence of Excommunication against the Emperour Frederick , candles put out , and bels ringing . Now I know not the cause that deserves this , and yet I am not ignorant of the great odds that is betweene them : I know also that one of them doth wrong the other , but which it is I know not : so farre forth then as my power doth extend , I excommunica●e and pronounce excommunicated one of the two , namely him that doth the injury to the other , and absolve him that suffereth the wrong , which is so hurtfull unto all Christendome . Thus farre he .

Now the thing which wee require on the behalfe of out professors so injuriously dealt withall , as that their sworne enemies b●came both their witnesses and their Iudges , which even common reason it selfe t t Inimicus capitalis nunquam admittitur esse accusator . Glossa apud Gratian . par. 2. causâ 3. quaest. ●● . forbids ; that I say which we crave , is this ; that since neither themselves have confessed the crimes laid to their charge , nor others have as yet justly convicted them thereof , that they may have the benefit of the Law , and accordingly be restored , according to an ordinary u u Restituendus est quem neque convictum , neque con●essum , constat esse ejectum . Gratian part. 2. causâ 2. qu 1. tit . Nicol●us . Canon provided in that case .

PA.

uu uu Parsons third part of Convers. chap. 3. Your Waldenses , Wicklifists and Hussites , and such as you account Confessors and Martyrs they errea in divers points , they varied amongst themselves , and differed from you ; so that they cannot belong to the same Church .

PRO.

Concerning Wickliff● , Husse , and the rest , if they have any of them borne record to the truth , and resisted any innovation of corrupt Teachers in their times , even to blood , they are justly to be termed Martyrs : yea , albeit they saw not all corruptions , but in some were themselves carried away with the streame of error . Else , if because they erred in some things , they be no Martyrs ; or because we dissent from them in some things , we are not of the same Church , both you and we must quit all claime , to Saint Cyprian , Iustin Martyr , and many more whom we count our ancients and predecessors , and bereave them also of the honour of martyrdome , which so long they have enjoyed . Irenaus , and Iustin Martyr held the error of the Millenaries , Cyprian & many others held Rebaptization necessary for such as were baptized by heretikes . S Austin , and the greatest part of the Church for sixe hundred yeares , held a necessitie of the Eucharist to Infants ; and in other things differed one from another ; and from the Church in the aftertimes , correcting their errors : yet because they all entirely and stedf●stly held all the necessary fundamentall principles which these errors did not infringe , neither held they these errors obstinatly , but only for want of better information ; they were of the same Church and Religion whereof we are . S. Austin saith , x x

Alia sunt de quibus inter se aliqu●●do etiam doctiss●mi atque optimi R●gulae Catholic●e d●fensores salva sidei co●page non consonant , & alius alio de un● re melius aliquid dicit & ver●us . Hoc autem undè nunc agimus ad ipsa fid●i perti●●t ●undamenta . Augustin l. 1. cont. Iulian. Pelagian . cap. 2. tom 7.

Mult● ign●rari possunt , salv● Christian● fide , & alicubi e●●●ri , sine aliquo Haereti●i dogmatis crimine . Idem de pecc . orig. contr. Pelag. & Coelest . cap. 23.

There be some things in which the most Learned , and best Defenders of the Catholike Rule ( the bond of faith preserved ) do sometimes not agree among themselves ; and one in some one thing saith righter than anoher .

Now if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points , hindred not their union in substance of the faith , and their being members all of the same Church : why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants , hinder their union in substance of the same faith , and their being members all of the same Chuch , both among themselves and with the Fathers ? yea but Wickliffe and Husse with others mentioned in our Catalogue , they erred in point of faith ; it is true , but yet their error was not joyned with pertinacy ; they err●d not incorrigibly , bu● for want of better information ; they erred in that doctrine of faith , wherein the truth was not fully scanned , declared , and confirmed by a Plenary Councell , as S. Austin speaketh y y 〈◊〉 & ipse sine dubi●●ederet , si 〈◊〉 illo tempo●e ques●io●is ●ujus veritas eliquata & de●larata per pl●nari●● C●ncilium soli●●●●t●r . Aug lib. 2. de Bap●●smo cont● . Donat. cap 4. ; had it beene , we may well thinke the very same of all those holy men , which Austin most charitably z z Vniversi orbi● authorit●ti p●●e●acta veritate 〈◊〉 . Ibid. saith of Saint Cyprian ; Without doubt they would have yeelded to the truth , being manifested unto them , by the authority of the whole Church .

Object .

We are at vnity , but your Protestants are at ods , a a M●ste● Brereleys table o● Lutheran bookes against Calvinis●s ; in the end of the ●rot . Apol. and namely your Lutherans and Calvinists in the point of the Sacrament , the one holding Consubstantiation , and the other opposing it .

Answer .

The Protestants , especially we of the Church of England are at unity , as appeares by the Harmony of our confessions , as also by our joynt subscriptions to the Articles of R●ligion established .

And for the point mentioned , the difference is nothing so great , as you would have it thought : for ( as the mo●t learned and judicious Zanchius b b De D●ssidio in Coenâ Domini H●●● . Z●nchij Iudicium . H●●● . Knollo● nobili Anglo . Hier. Zanchi●s 〈◊〉 plu● . dicit extat hoc Iudici●m in tom . s●ptimo , in sine mi●cel●ancor . observeth , and our c c Doctor Fiel● of the Church . Lib 5. Appendix part. 1 pag 114. Doctor Field out of him . ) In all necessary points , both the parties agree and dissent in one unnecessary , which by right understanding one another , might easily be compounded .

Both sides d d Extra C●●●am , panis non dissert ab alijs communibus ●ibis — pa●●m esse verè & 〈…〉 corpus C●risti utraque pars m●rito n●g●●it — u● per illa Symb●a ●●n ta●t●m signifi●●tur sed etiam verè ex●●●catur Corpus & sarguis Christi , hoc est , Christus ipse . Zanc● . Ibid saith Zanchius , doe agree , that the elements of bread and wine are not abolished in their substance , but onely changed in their use ; which is , not onely to signifie , but also to exhibit and communicate unto us , the very body and blood of Christ , with all the gracious working and fruits thereof .

Both parties agree , that the very body and blood of Christ are truely present in the Sacrament , and by the faithfull truely and really received .

Thus farre all parties agree , that is , in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament : for the other matter wherein they differ , e e Sed de modo praesentiae inter hos & illos non convenit . Ibid. de modo , of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament , seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures , in the judgement of Zanchius , f f Neque enim in scriptis ulla aperta mentio est de unione Corporis Christi cum Symbolis , vel de praesentia corporis Christi in Coena ; quamobrem potuisset . haec questio s●●e ullo ecclesiae detrimento omitti . Ibid. it might well be omitted ; and they themselves confesse , when they have gone as farre as they can to determine it , still it is ineffable , and not possible to be fully understood . It is enough for us ( saith the same g g Quare Ecclesiam Christi , et fideles non solum panem ; sed etiam ipsum verum Christi corpus in Coena recipere ac manducare : id quod certi satis , meo judicio , esse debuerat in Ecclesia Christi . Ibid. Zanchius ) to beleeve the body and blood are there , though how and in what manner wee cannot define .

So then in this maine controversie betweene them about Consubstantiation , which as Zanchius saith , h h Secum traxit illam aliam de ubiquitate quaestionem . Ibid. did afterwards occasion that other of ubiquity ; in both these controversies , the main truth on both sides is out of controversie ; that Christ is really & truly exhibited to each faithfull Communicant , and that in his whole person he is every where : the doubt is onely in the manner , how he is in the Symbols , and how in heaven and earth .

Now for other ods amongst us , they be but in Ceremonies , or at worst , in points of no absolute consequence ; whereas the differences amongst Papists concerne the life of Religion .

They differ concerning the Supreame authoritie of the Church , whether it be in the Pope , or in the Generall Councel . The Councels of Constance and Basil determined , i i Constant. Concil. sess. 4 Basil. sess . 33. Comment. Aen. Sylvij de gestis Basil. Conc. lib. 1. that a Generall Councel was above the Pope ; the Councel of Florence decreed the Pope to be above a Generall Councel .

They differ concerning the manner of the conception of the Virgin Mary . The Dominican Friers following the Thomists , hold that she was conceived in Originall sinne ; the Franciscans hold the contrary .

The moderne Popes dis●gree with the ancient , concerning the dignitie of universall Bishop , adoration of Images , Transubstantiation , Communion in both kinds , and the Merit of good workes , as is already showne in the fifth and seaventh Centurie of this treatise .

So cleere is it , that some doctrines of the later Roman Church were opposed by the ancient Roman Bishops th●mselves , to wit , adoration of Images k k Adorare verò Imagines , om●ibus modis d●vita . Greg. lib. 9 ep. 9 , as also the dignity and title of universal Bishop l l Idem lib. 6. ep. 30. Quisquis se universalem sucerd● tem vncat in clat●one 〈…〉 praecur●it . Idem . lib 2. ●p 61. Sacerdotes mens tuae manui comm●si — Et Imperatori ●●●d●entiam ●●abu● , by Gregorie the Great : communion in one kind m m Sanguinem autem redemptio●is nostrae hourne 〈…〉 nant . Leo Ser. 4 〈◊〉 . ● as also the merit of good works , n n Nequ● enim de qualitate nos●re●um 〈…〉 d●norum . Id. Se●m . 1. de Assumpt . by Leo the first : o o Et t●men esse non desinit substantia vel natura panis 〈◊〉 vin● . Gela● . cont. Nestor . & Entich . Transubstantiation by Gelasius the first .

Besides , the Iesuits and Dominicans differ at this day concerning the weighty point of Free-will and Grace .

The truth is , the Popish Faith varieth not onely with their persons , but according to time and place ; so that they can exchange their tenets upon occasion , advance or cry downe their opinions at their pleasure , as may best serve for their advantage . For , ( as Azorius the Iesuit saith p p F●equ●nter accidit ut quae 〈◊〉 pa●cis ab hinc 〈…〉 non crat , modo 〈…〉 recipi●tu● . In 〈…〉 non●ulla scriptores tradid●tun● Cru●em non esse 〈◊〉 daem honore & ●eneratione Lat●●ae , s●d●●o Inferio 〈…〉 : at in Hisp●nia c●mani cons●r sione d●cetur Cruc● cultum & ●●norem L●●●●ae deferendum . Azor Mo●●l . Iustit tom. 1 lib 2. ●p 13 ) It falls out often , that that which was not the common opinion a few yeares since , now is . And , that which is the common opinion of Divines in one Country , is not so in another ; As in Spaine and Italy , it is the common opinion , that Latreia , or divine worship is due to the Crosse , which in France and Germa●y is not so , but some inferior kind of worship due thereunto . And Navarrus the Casuist sayes , q q 〈…〉 , ut contraria asseratur in e● ; scilicet Papam esse Concilio superiorem . Mart. 〈…〉 cap. Novit . de Iudi●ijs . That at Rome , no man may say , that the Councel is above the Pope , nor at Paris , that the Pope is above the Councel .

In a word , the Papists are at great odds , but they cunningly conceale them ; insomuch as it is observed , that some of them would say to their friends in privat ; r r Sic dicerem in Scholis ; sed tamen ( mane●● in●er nos ) div●rsu● sentio . 〈◊〉 . ad Abbat . Visperg . pag. 448. edit. Basil. 1569. Thus , or thus I would say in the schooles , and openly ; Sed ( maneat in●er nos ) diversum sentio ; but keepe my counsel , I thinke the contrarie .

PA.

We may ( haply ) be at ods in some Scholasticke points ; but not in matters defined by the Pope and a Generall Councel .

PRO.

You would have us beleeve , that at the sound of the Pop●s sentence , like frogs in a marish , at the falling in of a great log or stone , you are all hushed and silenced : but it is not so , for since the Trent decrees were published , divers of your side are divided about the sense thereof ; i●somuch as they differ in the maine points thereof , which in your account are fundamental , and the deniers therof reputed Hereticks . This may appeare by these instances .

The Pope in the Councels of Trent and Florence decreed the Apocrypha to bee Canonicall Scripture ; yet since that decree , s s Driedo de Scriptur . et Dogmat. Eccles lib. 1. cap. ult . Driedo , and t t Sixt. Senens . Biblioth. ●anctae lib. 1. Sixtus Senensis have called them in question , and rejected them . The Pope in the last Lateran Councel● is decreed u u Sess● 11. to be above a Councel ; and yet since that time , uu uu Convincitur inde aliquid magis esse authoritatis penes totum Concilium recte ( ut decet ) congregatum , quàm penes solum Ponti●icem . Alph. à Castro . advers. haer . lib. 1. cap. 2. Alphonsus à Castro hath writ the contrarie . The Trent Councel teacheth ( Sess. 6. ) Iustification by Inherent righteousnes , condemning those that beleeve the imputation of Christs Righteousnesse ; and yet Albertus Pighius x x Pighius controvers secunda de Iustis●●t . hominis . defendeth imputed ●ighteousnesse , & so doth Cardinal Contaren , in his treatise of Iustification .

Again , the Pope decreed against the certainty of grace & salvation , defining ( Sess. 6. ) that no man should beleeve these things of himselfe ; & yet y y Dic●mus , 〈◊〉 acroborari , & clariorem in nobis a●●idue ●ie●i ad●ptae Grati● Certitudin●m . Catharin . Disceptat . 〈◊〉 de certitudine Gratiae . Catharinus defended the contrary , holding that a man might have the certainty of Faith touching these things● and when the Trent Councels authority was objected against him , he eluded it by divers sleight distinctions . The truth is , the Papists have a kind of unitie , to wit , a superstitious and hypocriticall crouching to the popes chayre● for so long as they agree to go to mass , swear to the popes supremacy , other things are tollerated although they consent like harp & harrow .

And surely were it not for the great profit , and riches , which knit the parts of this body together like twinnes that have different heads , but tied together by the belly , we should see this great body of the papacy , would soon be divided , scattered , and dispersed .

Howsoever , for any differences amongst the Protestants , we may thankefully acknowledge , that it was the wonderfull Providence of God , that so many severall Countries , Kingdomes and States , abandoning the abuses of the Church , or rather Court of Rome , and making particular reformation in their owne dominions , without generall meetings and consents , should have no more , nor greater differences than are found amongst them .

Object .

It is usuall with you in your Catalogue to say , such and such , as namely S. Bernard , or the like , taught ( for substance ) as you doe , agreeing only with you in some fundamentall points ; but this will not serve to make them members of your Church ; for by the like reason the Quartadecimanes , Novatians , Donatists , and Pelagians might pretend to the Catholike Church , in as much as they agreed therewith in some fundamentall truths .

Answer .

1 Agreement in one or more fundamentals , maketh not a man a Catholike Christian , tho disagreement in any one fundamentall joyned with obstinacie makes a man an Heretike .

2 To make a man actually a member of the true Church , more is required than agreement in the profession of the same fundamentall points of faith : for not only heresie , but schisme also excludeth a man from Communion with the true Catholike Church .

3 Fundamentall points as well conce●ne life and manners , as faith ; and he that impugneth the doctrine of the Decalogue , is as well an Heretike , as he that impugneth the doctrine of the Creed . Nicholas directly impugned the one , and by evident consequence the other , by maintaining his impure communion , or rather community of wives .

4 The Quarta decimanes , who kept Easter on the fourteenth day precisely were of two sorts .

Some , as Polycrates and other Bishops of Asia , kept it so , meerely in imitation of S. Iohn the Evangelist ; and those were never condemned for Heretikes . Others kept the fourteenth day by vertue of the Mosaicall Law ; and these by consequent destroyed the foundation ; as those did among the Galathians , who urged Circumcision , to whom S. Paul there professeth , That Christ should not profit them , and that they were fallen from grace .

5 Novatians erred in a fundamentall point concerning Repentance , and by consequent overthrew that Article of the Creed , Credo remissionem peccatorum .

6 The Donatists were rather Schismatikes than Heretikes , and rather made a rent in the Church , then were excluded from it . Saint Austin in his seventh tome , every where calleth it Schisma Donati : in the end they grew to bee heretikes , and denied in effect that fundamentall Article , Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam .

7 The Pelagians erred in divers fundamentall points , concerning originall sinn● , and the necessity of Grace .

For farther answer we say , that the Authors we produce against the Romanists are of two sorts .

1 Some we alleadge onely as Testes veritatis , in such or such a point , or points of faith . 2 Others wee produce as members of our reformed Church , and fore-runners of Luther .

Of the first sort is Bernard , very orthodoxe in all points against the Pelagians , but otherwise tainted , and an open enemy to the Albigenses .

Of the second sort are the Waldenses , Wicklifists , and Hussites who ( as appeares by their confessions of faith extant in Orthuinus Gratius , and the History of the Waldenses ) agree with u● in all Fundamentals , not onely in some , as the Heretikes above mentioned agreed with the Church .

Objection .

What though Saint Hierome , Bernard , and others agree with you in some generall truths ? men of contrarie religions may have divers materials of doctrine common to both : now this is but a genericall agreement , which is no more than the agreement betweene a man and a beast .

Answer .

1 Saint Hierome and Bernard are not well rancked together ; Saint Hierome was a through Papist in no point ; Bernard was in some , living in a corrupt age , seaven hundred yeeres after Saint Hierome .

2 Besides , we answer , that Waldo , Wickliffe and Husse , with others , agree with us not onely Generically , in the common grounds of Christianitie , but Specifically in those formall points , which we hold at this day against the Romane Church ; and as for such calumnies as are cast upon them , they are already confuted in this treatise , neither will any indifferent person regard them ; for when once that infamous name of Hereticke was fastned upon a man , nothing was too heavie for such an one , any thing was beleeved of that man : and from thence it is , without question , that we find so many , so absurd , so senselesse opinions imputed to them by the Romists ; such as indeede could not in truth with any possibilitie , fall into the imagination , or fancie of any man , much lesse bee doctrinally , or dogmatically delivered .

Besides , many of the books and writings of Wickliffe and Husse are extant , wherein are found no such doctrines as Papists have charged them with , but rather the contrary .

So that we hope there is no indifferent person will regard their slanders ; for even at this day , when things are in present view and action , they calumniate the persons , and falsifie the doctrine of our professours , as grossely as ever Pagans traduced the Primitive Christians , for instance sake , they give it out , that we hold , that z z Norint isti suorum axiomata● Deus est author peccati , opera nostra Deu● nequaquam curat , &c. Campian . rat. 8. God regardeth not our good works ; whereas we beleeve , that a a Apologia Ecclesiae Anglicanae ( in 2. part . ca. 2● ) testatur , Bona opera necessaria esse Christiano ad salutem . Rainold . apolog. Thess. Pag. 263. Good works are necessary to salvation ; and , b b Sona opera sunt necessaria ad salutem ; non tanquam causa ad eff●ctum , vel meritum ad mercedem ; sed tanquam antecedens ad Consequ●●● , vel tanquam medium ●i●e quo non ad ●inem . Zach. Vrsinus Catechetic . part 3. de gratitudine . Works are said to be necessary for us unto salvation , to wit , not as a cause of our salvation , but as a meane or way , without which wee come not unto it ; as a Consequent following Iustification , wherewith Regeneration is unseparably joyned .

In like sort , they gave out , that Beza recanted his Religion before his death ; whereas he lived to confute this shamelesse lye , and with his owne hand wrote a tract which he called Beza Redivivus , Beza Revived .

Thus also of late have they , dealt with that Reverend zealous and learned Prelate , Doctor King , late Bishop of London , giving it out in their idle c c The Protestants plea. The Bishop of Londons Legacie . Pamphlets , that hee was reconciled to the Church of Rome , which is unanswerably d d Doctor Henry Kings Sermon at Pauls Crosse 25. Novemb. 1621. proved to bee a grosse lye : for towards his death hee received the holy Sacrament at the hands of his Chapleine , Doctor Cluet , Arch-deacon of Middle-sex : he received it together with his wife , children , and family , whom he had invited to accompany him to that Feast : whereof hee protested in the e e Si● Henry Martin his Chancelour , Master Mathias Chaldicot● Master Philip King his brother . Doctor Henrie King , Doctor Iohn King , his son●es &c. presence and hearing of divers personages of good note , that his soule had greatly longed to eate that last Supper , and to performe that last Christian duty before he left them : and having received the Sacrament , he gave thanks to God in all their hearing , that he had lived to finish that blessed worke , for so himselfe did call it . And then drawing neerer to his end , ●e expresly caused his Chapleine , then his Ghostly Father , to reade the Confession and absolution , according to the ordinarie forme of Common prayer appointed in our Li●urgie . Did this worthy Prelate now dye a Papist , who to his last breath , communicated with the Church of E●gland ?

Besides , whereas Preston the Priest was given out to be the man that reconciled the Bishop to the See of Rome ; Preston ( as appeareth by his Examination and Answer taken before divers honourable Commissioners f f The Examination of Thomas Preston , t●k●n before the Lo●d Archbishop of Canterbury at Lambeth , Decemb. 20. 1621. ) protested before God , and upon his conscience , as he should answer at the dreadfull day of Iudgement , that the said Bishop of London did never confesse himselfe unto him , nor ever received Sacramentall absolution at his hands , nor was ever by him reconciled to the Church of Rome , neither did renounce before him the Religion professed and established in the Church of England .

Yea , he added farther , that as he hoped to be saved by Christ Iesus , he to his knowledge , was never in company where the said Doctor King , late Lord Bishop of London was , neither did he ever receive letter from him , nor did write letter unto him , neither did he ever ( to his knowledge ) see the said Bishop in any place whatsoever , nor could have knowne him from another man .

Object .

You have singled out some testimonies of Fathers , Schoole-men , and others ; and alleadged them on your owne behalfe , as if they had thereby beene of your Religion : whereas they be our witnesses , and speake more fully for us , than for your side .

Answer .

According to the Rule in law ; Testem que● quis inducit pro se , te●etur recipere contra se ; you have produced them for your owne ends , and now in reason you cannot disallow them , when they are alleadged by us ; so that you must give us leave to examine your men upon crosse Interrogatories .

Besides , one may be a materiall witnesse , who speaks home to two or three Interrogatories , although he cannot depose to all the rest .

It is no part of our meaning to take the scantling of our ancestors Religion from some single testimonies , wherein they either agree with , or dissent from us ; but f●om the maine body of the substantiall points of doctrine which are controverted betwixt us at this day . Neither make wee any such simple collection , Such a man held such a point with us , therefore he was a Protestant : no more then we allow them to frame the like : Such a man , in such or such a particular , agreed with the n●w Church of Rome , therefore he was a Papist . For , it followeth no more than this ; an Aethiopian or Tauny-moore is white in part , namely in his teeth , therefore he is white all over . But our care hath beene , ( that since In the mouth of two or three witnesses every word is established , Deut. 19.15 . and tha● as g g Vnique testi , ne● Catoni creditum est . Hieron . Apolog. advers. Ruf●in . lib. 2. pag. 223. ●om. 2. Hie●ome saith , One single witnesse , were it Cato hims●lfe , is not so much to bee credited ) to joyne together the severall testimonie● o● such worthies as lived in the same age ; presuming , that what some of note delivered , and the same not opposed by their contemporaries , that , that is to bee supposed to have beene the doctrine commonly received in those countries , and at that time .

Vpon these and the like considerations , the Reader may bee pleased to rest satisfied with such passages as have beene produced on our behalfe , though not so thronged and full in every age ; inasmuch as divers of our Ancestors have not left unto us sufficient evidence , whereby it might appeare what they held in divers particulars . Besides that , there bee divers testimonies suppressed , so as we can hardly come by them ; as namely in Faber Stapulensis his Preface to the Evangelists , there is a notable place touching the Scriptures Suficiencie ; the words are these : The Scripture sufficeth , and is the onely Rule of eternall life ; whatsoever ag●eeth not to it , is not so necessary as superfluous . The Primitive Church knew no other Rule but the Gospel , no other Scope but Christ , no other Worship than was due to the Individuall Trinity . I would to God the forme of beleeving were fetched from the Primitive Church . Thus saith Stapul●nsis .

Now this whole passag● is appointed by the Expurgatory Index of Spaine , to be l●f● ou● in their later editions ; and yet by good hap , I met with this passage h h Verbum dei suffi●it , hoc unicum satis est ad vitam quae terminum nescit inveniendam : ●aec u●ica regula vitae aeternae , magistra est , u●inam credendi form● a Pri●itiv● peteretur E●clesi● , quae nullam regulam prae●e● Evangelium novit . Iac. F●ber . Stapulens in prae●●t . in quatuor ●vangelia , edit . Basileae . Ann. 1●23 . in an edition a● Bas●l● as also in anoth●r at Colen An. 1541.

In like sort I ●●nd alleadged out of Lu●ovicus Vives , his Commentaries upon Saint Augustine d● Civitate Dei , these passages following touching the Canon of the Scripture , and the practised Adoration of Images in his time ; namely the same Vives saith , that The storie of Susanna , of Bel , and the Dragon are not Canonicall Scripture ; he saith also , that Saints are esteemed and worshipped by many , as were the Gods among the Gentiles .

These places I carefully sought for , in the severall editions of S. Austin , at A●twerpe , Anno 1576. at Paris , Anno 1586. at Coleine , Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found , the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them , and suppressed these testimonies ; but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition , i i

Q●●dea Beli H●●toria & tot●m 14. caput ●um histo●ia Su●●nnae Apochrypha si●t , ne● in Hebraeo hab●●●t it , nec sunt versa a 70. s●nib●● . Lud. Vives Comment. in lib 18. cap. 31. August de Civit. Dei .

Multi Christiani in re bon● plerumque peccant qu●d Divos Divasque non a●●ter venerantur quam Deum . Nec video in multis quod sit discrimen inter eorum opinionem de Sanctis , & id quod Gentiles puta●ant de suis Dijs . Ludov. Vives Commentar. in 8. lib Aug. de Civit. Dei . ca. 27. tom. 5. edit. Basil. anno 1569.

Anno 1569.

Object .

Those whom you have named in your Catalogue , were k k Bellar. lib 4. de Eccl. cap 5. §. P●ae●ereà . And Brereley● Prot. Apol. tract 2. cap. 2. sect. 12. originally Catholikes , and not Protestants ; Wickli●fe and Husse were Catholike Priests , and Luther was an Augustine Frier : you cannot name such as were Protestants originally , they came forth of our Church .

Answer .

Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles ? were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted ? S. Paul speaking of himselfe , and the service of his God , l l 2 Timoth. 1.3 . Cui servio a progenitoribus meis● id est , Abraham , Isaac & Iacob , qui ●uerant veri culiores Dei● & similiter Ga●ali●● qui nut●ivit Paulu● , & in lege do●uit . Ly●an . in loc. saith , Whom I doe serve from my progenitors , meaning Abraham , Isaac and Iacob , the first Fathers of the faithfull ; for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors , it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees .

It can be no more prejudice to our Church , that Luther , Wickliffe a●d Husse were originally Papists , than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee , or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee , or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen , or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate . For as Tertullian saith , m m De ve●●ris suimus , s●unt ●on nascuntur Christiani . Terullian Apologet. advers. Gent. cap. 18. Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani ; We are not borne Christians , but we become Christians .

Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists . For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists ( though Waldo himselfe was . )

Besides , the Fathers for 600 yeares , and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists .

In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards , many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals , who never were originally Papists , nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches , and namely in the Greeke Church , there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards , many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals , and never were originally Papists .

Lastly , the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes , that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church . Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth , and Simeon , and Anna , and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church , which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias , and divorces for other causes than adultery , &c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved .

In England , and most parts of the world , the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters : what prejudice is that to Christianity , or advantage to Heathenisme ?

Object .

Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession .

Answer .

There is a two-fold succession ; the one lineall and locall , the other doctrinall ; this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other . n n Eis obaudire opportet qui ●um Episcopatus successione Charisma verita●is certum a●ceperunt ; Reliquos qui absistunt à principali successione suspectos habere . Iren. advers. Haer. lib. 4. cap. 43. Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles ; To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office , have received the c●rt●ine grace of t●uth : and this kind of succession hee calle●h the princip●ll succession . Gregory Nazianzen having said , that At●anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse , o o Greg Nazianzen . in l●●d 〈◊〉 . addeth , That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succ●ssion : for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also p●rtaker of the same throne , but he that is against the doctrine , must be reputed an adversary , even while h●e sitteth in the thro●e , but the former hath the thing it selfe , and the truth : so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianz●n , succession in doctrin● su●ficeth : yea Nazianzen ( as we have heard ) makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; so that he which holds the same truth of doctrin● may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession .

Besides , wee are able to shew succession also in place for ●ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome ; and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day , and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo , in France , Bohemia , and other places .

And for the Church of England , the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason , de ministerio Anglicano ; Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England , and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England .

PA.

Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther , three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops , succeeding each to other , and if you had such , expresse their agreement with you , in the maine points controverted betweene us .

PRO.

This demand was eagerly pressed upon me , by a Romish Priest , but the Stone which he hurled at mee , not comming forth of Davids sling , recoiles upon himselfe , like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull , which ●ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eye● — Redijt lapis ultor ab osse , Actorisque suifrontem , ocul●squè petit .

For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other , who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice ; or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholas● or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift ; or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence ; or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth ; or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide , and necessary to salvation , before the Councell of Trent .

Besides , there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other , and opposing Poperie : It sufficeth to name such as opposed it , tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire ; for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church , but by degrees ; now such as held the fundamentals with us , and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church , they were Protestants , though they went not then under that name .

Now according to this account of Protestants , wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other , who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions ; for instance sake , S. Austine , and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa , and their successors for a hundred yeares together ( if their owne p p

Boni●acij 2. Epis● . ad Eu●al . Al●xandr . extat in Li●d●●i pan●pliâ Ev●ng lib. 4 cap. 89. in ●i●e .

Hardin●s A●swer to Bi●hop Ie●els Challeng● Artic. 4. Divis. 2● .

Records be true ) opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales .

To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches , and the Habassines and Muscovites , and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares , differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants , and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome ; when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great , the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances , stifly adhering to the Churches of Asia in their celebration of Easter ; and tho they were cut off from the Popes Communion , yet they sleighted it , and persisted in their former opinions and customes , as I have already showne in the sixth Centurie .

In the later ages , q q The History of the ●●ld●nses book . 1. Cha 9 Rainerius the Popish Inquisitour , makes mention of two famous Bishops of the Waldenses , one Balazinanza of Verona , and one Iohn de Lugio , about the yeare 1250. And I have showne in the twelfth age , out of Mathew Paris , r r Ipse [ ●ath●l●m●us ] ●reat Epi●●opos , & Ecclesias pers●●e ordina●e ●ont●ndi● . Math. Par●● Hi●●or . ad ann. 1223 about the yeare of Grace 1223 , that amongst the Albigenses , there was one Bartholomew who ordered and governed the Churches in Bulgaria , Croatia , Dalmatia , Hungaria , and appointed Ministers , insomuch as the Bishop of Portuense , the Popes Legate in those parts , complained thereof . And in the fifteenth age , I have showne out of Cochleus , in his Historie of the Hussites s s Cochleus Histor Hussit . lib. 5. , knowne and confessed Protestants , how Con●adus Arch-bishop of Prague became an Hussite , and held a Councel at Prague in the yeare 1421 and there compiled a Confession of their Faith agreeable to the doctrine of the Reformed Churches . Now those who succeeded the forenamed Bishops among the Waldenses and Albigenses , as also the Hussites , although they carried not the titles of Bishops , yet they exercised Episcopall authoritie in ordaining Priests , the Catalogue of whom is extant in the historie of the Waldenses and Albigenses . And thus they have in t t Master ●ed●l● letters to Wadsworth . chap. 11. Germany , those whom they call Superintendents , and generall Superintendents ; and where these are not , as in the French Churches , yet There are , saith Zanchius , usually certaine chiefe men that doe in a manner beare all the sway , as if order it selfe , and necessitie led them to this course . And what are these but Bishops in effect , unlesse wee shall wrangle about names , which for reason of State , those Churches were to abstaine from .

PA.

Since you impute so many errours to the Church of Rome , which you pretend to have reformed , tell us when those corruptions came in , for doubtlesse some histories would note them , some learned men oppose them : for in every great and notorious change , there may be observed the Authour , time and place , with the like Circumstances , as Bellarmine u u In omni insigni mutatione demonstra●● possunt author ejus , tempus quo coepit , locus ubi . Bellarm. lib. 4. de not . cap. 5. §. In omni . saith .

PRO.

By the like reason it would follow , that a Tenant who had long dwelt ( he and his Ancestors ) in a decayed house , should not bee bound to repayre it , unlesse his Land-lord could tell him in what yeare or month every rafter or wall began to decay ; a sick patient should not purge out an ill humour , unlesse hee or his Physician could name the time , when his first mis-diet had bred this humour ; so Naaman because hee was once cleane , and could not tell the very time , meanes , and degrees of the comming of his Leprosie , might be proved to bee cleane still , and neede neither the Prophet nor the washing , 2 King . 5.

Errours and abuses are not all of one sort ; there were some heresies , such as the Arrian and Nestorian , which strucke at the very head , the one at the divinitie of Christ , the other at the divinity of the Holy Ghost , and these being notorious , were soone discerned , and opposed , and herein Bellarmines reason many take place : but Poperie , like that mysterie of iniquitie , 2 Thes. 2.7 . works closely , it creeps and spreads abroad like a Cancker , or Gangreene , 2. Tim. 2.17 . it is like the Cockatrices Egge , a long time in the shell , before the Cockatrice it selfe appeare .

Now these kinde of corruptions creepe into the Church secretly and insensibly , and are best knowne by their differences from their first pure doctrine ; so that if we can shew the present doctrines of Rome ( refused by us ) disagree from the Primitive , it is enough to shew there hath beene a change , though wee cannot point out the time , when every point began to be changed .

Tertullian saith , uu uu Ipsa enim doctrina ●orum cum Apostolicà comparat● . ex divers●tate & cont●ari●ta●e suà pronun●●●●● , n●que Apostoli alic●jus Auctoris esse , neque 〈◊〉 . ●ertul . pr●escrip . ●dve●● . Hae●●t . cap 32. The very doctrine it selfe being compared with the apostolicke , by the diversity & contrarietie thereof , will pronounce that it ●ad ●or Authour , neither any Apostle , nor any Apostolicall man . x x M●th 19 8. If from the beginning it was not so , and now it is so , there is a change . y y 1 Cor. 11 28. All dranke of that Cup , now all must not : z z 1 Co● . 14. all then prayed in knowne tongues with understanding , and all publike service done to edification , now the custome is altered , though wee know not when this change began .

Besides , they that call upon us to show the time , place , and persons , of such and such changes in Religion , cannot the●selves performe the like .

Gregory de Valentia , a learned Iesuite , confesseth , that the use of receiving the Sacrament in one kind , began first in some Churches , and grew to be a generall custome in the Latine Church , not much before the Councel of Constance , in which , at last ( to wit , about two hundred yeares agon ) this custome was made a law . But if they put the question to him , as they doe to us , and aske him , When did that custome first get f●oting in some Churches ? he returnes this for Answer , a a Valent. de Legit. usu Euchar. cap. 10. Minimè constat , it is more than he can tell .

Doctor Fisher b b ●●ssens . Assert . Luther●n consu● Artic. 18. bishop of Rochester , and Cardinal Cajetan , c c Cajetan . opusc . tom 1. tract 15. de ●●du●g cap. 1. grant , that of Indulgences no certainty can be had , what their Originall was , or by whom they were first brought in

Doctor Fisher addeth , d d Apud Prisco● null● , vel quam ●arissima f●●bat 〈◊〉 ; sed & grae●is ad hunc usque diem non est cred●tum purgatorium esse . Ross●n Ibid. that Of Purgatorie , in the ancient Fathers there is no mention at all , or very rare , that th● Latines did not all at once , but by little and little receive it ; that t●e Grecians beleeve it not to this day : and that Purgatorie being so long unknowne , it is not to be marveiled that in the first times of the Church there was no use of Indulgences ; for they had their beginning after that men had a while beene scared with the torments of Purgatorie , which as the same R●ffensis saith , e e Quamdiu nulla ●uera● de Purgatorio cura , nemo quaesivit indulgentia● ; nam ●x illo pond●t omnis Indulg●ntiarum existimatio : quum itaque purgatoriu● 〈…〉 cognitum ac re●●ptum Ecclesiae ●uerit universae . Ibid. was but Sero cognitum , lately knowne and discovered .

The Originall of their private Masses ( wherein the Priest receiveth the Sacrament alone , and none of the people communicate with him , but are all lookers on ) Doctor Harding f f Hardings answer to the first Article of Bishop Iewels Challenge . of private Masses . Divis. 7. fetcheth from no other ground , than Lacke of devotion on the peoples part ; now let them tell us in what Popes dayes the people fell from their devotion , and then we may haply tell them when their private Masses began .

Bellarmine saith , g g Sancti coeperunt coli in Ecclesiâ universali , non t●m Lege aliqu● , quam consuetudine . Bellarm. de SS. Beat. lib. 1. cap. 8. §● ult. that The worship and Invocation of Saints was brought into the Church rather by custome than any precept .

Concerning prayer in an unknowne tongue ; It is to be wondred how the Church altered in this point , ( h h Mirum in h●c re , quàm Ecclesiae mutata fit consuetudo . Erasm. in 1. Cor. 14. saith Erasmus ) but the precise time he cannot tell . So little reason have they to think that al such changes must be made by any one certaine author , it being confessed , that some of them may come in pedetentim ( as B. Fisher saith of purgatory ) by litle and little , not so very easie to be discerned ; some may come in by the silent consent of many , & grow after into a generall custome , the beginning whereof is past mans memorie ( as the abstaining from the cup ) & some may arise of the undiscreet devotion of the multitude ( as those of Purgatorie and Indulgences ) and some from the want of devotion in the people , ( as ●he private Masses ) and some also must be attributed to the very change of time it selfe ; as publicke prayers in an unknowne tongue , in Italy , France and Spaine , for there a long time the Latine was commonly understood of all : but when afterwards , i i Seu paucorum d●sid● , ne laborem susciperent immutandi & corrigendi Liturgiam , posteaquam p●r barbaras gentes , Latinus sermo paulatim corruptus exolevit , & a●ire coepit in varias vulgares Linguas , &c. Rainold . Thes. 5. pag. 164. by the invasion of those barbarous nations , the Goths and Vandals , their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there , then the language , not of the Service but of the people , was altered ; so that upon the fall of the Empire , learning began to decay , and the publicke Service no longer to be understood , by reason of the change of the vulgar tongues .

Lastly , wee are able to show , ( as appeares by the eighth Centurie of this treatise ) when , and by whom corruption of doctrine hath beene brought in ; and how opposition hath beene made from time to time in case of the adversaries violent intrusion ; for instance sake , for the space of sixe hundred yeares and more , next after Christ , the Catholicke doctrine of the Church of Rome was this , that Images were not to be adored ; and this is witnessed by Gregorie the Great , who allowed k k G●●gor . lib. 7. epist. 109. ad Seren. no use of Images but onely Historical ; for so he saith , They are not set up to be worshipped , but onely to instruct the people that be ignorant : yea he speakes positively , l l Imagines ador●re ●mnibus modis de v●ta 〈◊〉 lib. 9. ●p. 9. that The worshipping of Images is by all meanes to bee avoided . Now this doctrine maintained by Gregorie the first , was changed by Gregorie the second and third , Adrian the first and second ; so that here we have taken them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the manner , to wit , with doctrine novel , and differing from their Ancestors , and therefore need no farther examination . But that the Reader may trace them along ; we find that this Innovation was resisted by three hundred thirtie eight Bishops at Constantinople , in the yeare 754 , and though afterwards it got strength at Nice , was defended by Rome , and at last got to bee a part of the Roman Faith ; yet was the same disliked , denied , opposed , and resisted by all the good men that lived in that and aftertimes , as Charles the Great , the councel of Franckford , Lewis his sonne , the Synod of Paris , Alcuinus , and the Church of England .

PA.

Will you charge our Religion with novelty ? can that bee called new which is of so long continuance ?

PRO.

Divers points of your Religion are confessed novelties ; your owne men yeeld , that for Above a thousand yeares after Christ , m m Bellar. de Rom. pon● . lib. 4. c. 2. §. Secunda opinio . the Popes judgement was not esteemed infallible , nor his authority n n Bellar. de Concil. lib. 2 cap. 13. above that of a Generall Councell ; the contrary being decreed in the late Councels of Constance and Basil : that Not any one ancient Writer o o Gregor. de Valent. in Thom. tom . 4. Disput. 6. p. 2 reckons precisely seven Sacraments ; the first p p Bellar. de S●cr●m . lib. 2. cap. 25 : Cassand . Consult . de num Sacram. Author that mentioneth that number being Peter Lombard , and the first Councell that of Florence : that in former ages for thirteene hundred yeares , q q Cassand Artic. 22 de utráque specie Sacram. Lindan Panopl . lib. 4. c. 25 The holy Cup was administred to the Laity : that r r Nic. de Lyra in 1. ad . Corinth . cap. 14. & Cassand in Liturgic . cap 28. divine service was celebrated for many ages , in a knowne and vulgar language , understood by the people : that Transubstantiation was neither named , s s

Scotus apud B●llarm . lib. 3. de Euchar. cap. 23.

Et Erasm. in 1 ad Cor. cap. 7. In Synoxi , Transubstantiationem , serod●●●●ivit Ecclesia ; diu satis ●rat ●redere , sive sub pa●e consecrato sive quocunque modo adesse verum corpus Chris●i .

nor made an Article of faith before the Councell of Lateran , which was above twelve hundred yeares after Christ : besides , many more confessions of this kind which might bee produced .

Now that a thing may be novell , though of long duration may appeare by this ; our Saviour when he would declare Pharisaicall Traditions to be Novelties , did not respect their long continuance in the corrupt estate of the Church , but saith , Math. 19.8 . Ab initio non fuit sic , that they were not from the beginning delivered by God , or practised by the Church : so that if the duration and antiquity of your opinions be but humane , that is , not Apostolicall , neither from Apostolicall grounds , they may according to Tertullian , t t Constat p●oinde ●mnem doctrinam quae cum illis ●c●l●sijs Apostolicis , mat●icibus & Originalibus fidei conspir●t , veritati d●pu●andam , id sinc dubio tenent●m , quod Ecclesiae ab Apostolis , Apostoli à Christo , Christus à Deo sus●epit ; reliquam verò de mendacio praejudicandam , quae sapiat contrà v●ri●at●m Eccl●siarum & Apos●olerum , & Christi , & Dei . Tertull. de praescrip. adv●rs . Haeret. cap. 21. be esteemed new and novelties ; for a point is new in Religion that did not proceed from God and his blessed spirit , either intermin●s , or by deduction from his word that is the Ancient of dayes , whatsoever pretences of duration and continuance may be supposed .

It remaineth then , that that is new in Religion which is not most ancient ; so that if you cannot derive your Religion further then from some of the Fathers , the tradition whereupon it is builded , is then but humane , and so a new thing , even Noveltie it selfe . And therefore Tertullian telleth us , u u Id ve●ius qu●d prius , id prius quod et ab ini●io , ab i●●tio quod ab Apostolis Tertul. lib. 4. adv●● . M●●cion . cap. 5. That is most true , which is most ancient , that most ancient which was from the beginning , that from the beginning which was from the Apostles ; as if there were no truth in faith that was not from the beginning . If Christ was alwayes and before all , truth is a thing equally ancient , and from all eternitie , saith the same uu uu Si s●mper Ch●●●us ●● prior omni●us , aq●● ve●●tas s●mpiterna & antiqua ●●s . Tertul. de Virgin . V●land . cap. 1. Father ; and therefore whatsoever savor●th against the truth , this ( saith he x x Q●od●uaque adversus veritat●m sapit , hoc erit haeresi● , etiam vetus ●onsuetu●o . Ibid. ) is Heresie , tho●gh it be of long continuance ; for there is no y y Veritati nem● praescribere potest , non spatium temporum , non patro●inia persona●um . Ibid. prescription of time , that will hold plea against the Ancient of dayes , and his truth .

I know that Pamelius in his notes upon Tertullian would ward off these testimonies by saying z z Vide●ur is●ud pertinere ad initium su●erroris : Nam & num 6. meminit Paracleti à Domino missi , id est , Montani , ●ac . Pamelius in notis in Tertul. de Virginib . Veland . ca 1. , that Tertullian spoke thus , When hee began to fall into the fancie of Montanus ; but be it so , yet hee delivered some truths after hee lapsed into Montanisme : besides , Bellarmine for proofe of Monasticall vowes , and veiling of Nunnes , a a Bellar. lib. 2. de Monachis . cap. 27. §. Tertullianu● libro de Velandis Virgin . alleadgeth divers places out of the same treatise of Tertullians , de Virginibus velandis , of veiling of virgins ; and then ( belike ) Tertullian was no Montanist , when Bellarmine for his advantage alleadged him .

PA.

Our Religion b b Prot. Apology , tract. 2. cap. 2. sect. 12. Mr. Brerely is that good seed , which Christ the good husbandman first sowed in his field , Math. 13.24 . yours is like the Tares , which the enemy ( afterwards ) came and sowed among the wheate .

PRO.

A great part of your Religion , specially that which is controverted betwixt you and us , and namely your Trent additionals and Traditionals , was not sowne by the good husbandmen , Christ and his Apostles ; but by the envious man , by the craft of the man of sinne , and his complices , the sinnes of Christian men so requiring ; for ( as it is already observed ) erroneous doctrine , it may be , antiqua , ancient , but it cannot be , prima , that one truth and faith , Ephes. 4.5 . Which was once delivered to the Saints , as c c Saint 〈◊〉 vers. 3. S. Inde speakes : and therefore is Christ the Husbandman , first presented in the Parable , as Seminans , sowing good seed in his field , before the Enemy is produced Reseminans , resowing the same Acres with unprofitable graine .

Besides , Religion is one thing , and Reformation another , the one presupposeth the other ; our reformation is of a later date , our Religion is the old Religion , coevall with the Primitive and Apostolike , howsoever you taxe us with noveltie .

But the Disciple is not above his Master ; the Iewes could say to our Saviour , d d Mark . 1.27 . What new doctrine is this ? and the Grecians to S. Paul , e e Acts 17.18 . May we not know what this new doctrine , whereof thou speakest is ? but wee say in our just defence , f f Nos non sumus Novatores , sed vos estis Veteratores . Ios Scaliger . Respons. ad Nic. Sera●ij Min●●vale . it is not wee that aff●ct noveltie , but it is you that counterfeit the face of Antiquity ; as the g g Iosh. 9.4.5 . Gibeonites dealt with Ioshua , deceiving him by the shew of old sacks , old bottles , old shoes , old bread that was mouldie , as if they had come a farre off , whereas they dwelt but hard by : in like sort you put on a visour of antiquity , but once search the ground thereof , and draw aside this maske , and then your tenets appeare to be but noveltie in comparison of primitive antiquity : for as Tertullian saith , h h Ita ex ipso ordine manifestatur , id esse Domini●um & verum , quod sit priùs traditum ; id outem ext●aneum & falsum quod po●●eriùs immissum . Tertul de p●ae● . advers. Haer. cap. 31. That is true which is first , and that false which is later .

In a word , we are no i i Reformatam modò religion●m dictmus , non formatam de novo . Renovatores modò sumus , non Novatores . L. Eliens . Episc. in Respons. ad Bellar. Apolog. cap. 1 pag. 21. Innovators , but Reformers ; we doe not professe any Religion new made , but a religion reformed , and refined ; so that wee may say with the Christian k k Bapt. Matuan . ad Leon. X. Eclog. 10. Poet : Haec novitas , non est novitas , sed vera vetustas : Relligio , et Pietas Patrum instaurata resurgit , Quod tua corrupit levitas , et nota tuorum Segnities ; igitur si quis labentia tecta Erigat , et sterilem qui mansuefecerit agrum , Iudice te damnandus erit . It is no novell thing wee preach , But such as ancient Fathers teach . The truth which former Popes conceal'd , Doth now begin to be reveal'd ; Must he be blamed that repaires The ruin'd Church , and weed's out tares ? And thus have our Reformers done , And they for this must be undone .

It is true then that the good seed was first fowne by the Apostles , and fructified in the Church generally for 60. yeares ; afterwards the Enemie sup●r-seminavit zizania , he resowed the tares , which in part were weeded out by Waldo , Wickliffe and Husse , but more universally and publikely by Luther , Calvine , and others ; so that wee have not sowne any tares upon the Churches gleabe land , but onely weeded out such as were sowne by others in the dead of the night , in the time of ignorance , not whilst the Husbandman himselfe slept , For hee which keepeth Israel neither slumbereth nor sleepeth , but cum dormirent homines , whiles men slept , that is , the overseers of the Vineyard grew carelesse , and negligent . And thus might tares be sowne , though the time and ●eedsman were not knowne : for it is confessed by your Trent-●athers , l l Cum multa , sive temporum vitio , sive hominum in●u●ia & improbitate irrepsisse videantur , quae à tanti s●crisi●ij dignitate aliena sint . Concil. Trid. Ses● . 22 in Decreto de obtervandis & evitandis in ●●●●bratione Missae . That many things , through the fault of times , or the negligence and wickednesse of men , have seemed to have crept in [ to the Masse ] which are repugnant to the dignity of so great a sacrifice : and yet they cannot t●ll when these abuses crept in , nor by whose default .

And thus by Gods assistance , I have finished the taske which I undertooke , having named out of good Au●hors , a Catalogue of such professours as taught ( for substance ) as the Church of England doth , and withall cleered the Catalogue of our professours from such exceptions as the adversarie hath made against them ; and in producing this evidence , I have ( as hee speakes in Iob 8.8 . ) enquired of the former ages , and made search of their Fathers , and have dealt as Ioseph's steward did when he made search for his masters Cup , He began at the eldest , and left at the youngest : and the Cup was found in Benjamin's Sacke , Gen. 44.12 . we have begun with the former ages , passed along the middle , and descended unto Benjamin's , even to the later ages , abutting on Martin Luther's time , and have found even with these younger ages the Cup that wee sought for , to wit , A Protestants Church , visible and conspicuous .

And now having ( I hope ) satisfied your demand , Where was our Church before Luther ; I would require the like of you , namely , to show , if you can , out of good Authours , I will not say , any Empire or Kingdome , but any Citie , Parish or Hamlet , within five hundred yeares next after Christ , in which there was any visible assembly of Christians to be named , maintaining and defending either your Trent Creed in generall , or these points of Poperie in speciall ; to wit , 1. That there is a treasurie of Saints Merits , and super-abundant sati●factions at the Popes disposing . 2. That the Laitie are not commanded by Christs Institution , to receive the Sacrament of the Lords Supper in both kinds . 3. That the publicke Service of God in the Church , ought , or may be celebrated in an unknowne tongue . 4. That private Masses , wherein the Priest saith , Edite & bibite ex hoc omnes , eate and drinke ye all of this ; and yet eateth and drinketh himselfe onely , bee according to Christs Institution . 5. That popes pardons are requisite , or us●full to release soules out of purgatorie . 6. That extreame unction is a Sacrament properly so called . 7. That we may worship God by an Image . 8. That the pope cannot erre in matters of Faith .

Shew us now , if you can , or any Papist in the world , that these points above named , which are maine points with you , inasmuch as you account the denyers thereof Hereticks ; shew us , I say , that they were generally and constantly held for Catholick Church tenets in the first five hundred yeares next after Christ , which is the very flower of primitive antiquitie .

But of these matters , ( since this present conference is enlarged beyond my expectation ) at our next meeting , if you please . Meane time and ever , the Lord of his mercie direct us in his owne wayes , In the old way , which is the god way , as the prophet cals it , Ierem. 6.16 . and call home such as wilfully , or by ig●orance , have gone astray , that at length they may be brought to that m m Iohn 10.16 . One Shepherd , and that One Sheepe fold of Christ Iesus : to whom , with his Father and the blessed Spirit , be praise for evermore . Amen .

FINIS .
Approbatio Censoris .

PErlegi hunc Librum , cui titulus ( The Protestants Evidence , &c. ) Quem , quoniàm doctum judico , et in palaestrâ Theologiae versatis utilissimum , typis mandari permitto .

THO: WEEKES . D. P. D. Episc. Lond. Cap. Domest.
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