IT seemes M. S. Saint Austin is in some request with you ; for you place Him in the Front of your Treatise , which you might easily have contrived into a few lines , telling us : so saith Iewell , Perkins , &c. in such a Booke , such a page : But will you stand to that Ancient Fathers Authority in your Point of Usury ? Heare Him I pray you : In Psal. 36. Nolo sit is faeneratores , & ideò nolo , quia Deus non vult . I would not have you to bee Usurers , and therefore I would not have you to be so , because GOD would not have you to be so . A little after : Vnde apparet Deum hoc nolle ? Dictum est alio loco . Qui pecuniam suam non dedit ad Vsuram . Et quam detestabile sit , & quam odiosum , quam execrandum , puto quia & ipsi faeneratores noverunt . How appeares it , that GOD would not have you to be Usurers ? It is said in another place . Hee that putteth not His money to Vsury . How detestable a thing it is , to give money upon Usury , how odious , how execrable , I suppose , the Usurers themselves are not ignorant . And upon Psal. 128. Audent etiam faeneratores dicere non habeo aliud unde vivam . Hoc mihi & latro diceret , deprehensus in fa●ce , &c. — Hoc mihi & leno diceret emens puellas ad prostitutionem , &c. The Usurers also , saith Saint Austin , dare say , they have not whereupon els to live : so ( saith He ) may the Robbers say , taken in the Theeves Haunt , &c. — So may the Bawde say , who buyeth young Women for prostitution , &c.

Or will you stand to the judgement of those Worthy Men , ( for so you call them at the bottome of your first page ) which Saint Austin produced against Iulian ? Heare them also . Saint Basil : in Psal. 14. An ignoras , inquit , quòd major tibi peccatorum exurgat acervus , quam sit accessus opum , quem ex usuris venaris ? Knowest Thou not , that a greater heape of sinnes growes upon Thee , then is the accession of riches , which thou hunts after by Usury . Saint Gregory Hom 4. in Ecclesiast. Aiatis , inquit , dixit Deus ; Crescite & multiplicamini : Auri autem faetus , nempe faenus , ex quonam consistit matrimonio ? &c. — Hic est ille partus , quem parturit qui dem avaritia , parit autem iniquitas , & obstetricatur inhumanitas . This is that young One ( speaking of usury ) with which covetousnesse travailes ; Iniquity brings forth ; and Inhumanity playes the Mid-wife .

Saint Ambrose , an other of those Worthy Men , hath detested and discoursed against usury very excellently , and eloquently in a whole Booke de Tobia : in the 9. Chap. whereof , Hee compares the Divell and an Usurer together . Chap. 14. Silicitum est : cur vocabulum refugis ? cur velamen obteris ? Si illicitum est : cur incrementum requiris ? If usury be lawfull , why doest Thou decline the name ? Why puts Thou a vaile over it ? If it be unlawfull , why receivest Thou any increase ?

Saint Hierom , In Psal. 54. In lege usurae accipi prohibentur . Vsura est , plus accipere , quam dare . Taking of usury is forbidden in the Law . And usury is to take more , then was given . And in Ezek. Chap. 18. page 538. Repetens ab his quibus tribuit , ( meaning in the case of usury ) ampliùs quam dederat , vivere non poterit , sed in suo sanguine morietur . Chrysost. Hom. 5. in Mat. pag. 38. Nihil praesenti usurâ turpius , nihilque crudelius . Si quidem hujusmodi faenerator negotiatur discrimina , & uberiores ( ut putat ) quaestus de alterius infaelicitate consequitur , atque insuper quasi pietatis mercedem reposcit , velut metuens ne immisericors fore videatur : cum profectò pretextu miserendi , atque opem ferendi , majorem misero foveam crudelitatis effoderit , speciejuvandi atterens inopem , ac manum porrigendo deijciens : & quasi inportum , ex tempestate suscipiens , sed improviso turbine in multò magis crudele naufragium , velut inter scopulos , ac latentia saxa demergens .

I have given you a taste of those Worthy Men , how worthily , They cut the throate of your usury . I might quote many more of the Fathers to the same purpose : but that it is not my purpose , but onely to let you seee how you have wounded your selfe at unawares , by writing those passages out of Saint Austin . I meane in this respect : As Iulian the Pelagian became Saint Austins and their Opposite , in Point of Pelagianisme : So you proove Opposite to Austin and the same Worthies in Point of Usury .

But you have , as you suppose , some late Divines on your side . And I will also suppose so for the present : And oppose against them three hundred and eighteene , the learnedest and greatest Divines in the whole Christian world , congregated at Nicaea in the more * * Of whom Beza somewhere professeth , that the Sun never beheld a more divine meeting since the Apostles times . pure and primitive times , * * See the same also in corrupter Times . Wet . Book pag. 61. In the yeare of our Lord 325. or thereabouts condemning usury , from those words Psal. 15. Qui pecuniam suam non dedit ad usuram : Hee that putteth not His money out to usury . Can. 18. I could name them every One unto you , and so make a farre larger Catalogue then yours . For here are 300. odds . Yours being but 18. Nay in a word ; for any thing I can learne , or know , I may oppose in this Point all other Councells , that ever mentioned it , Fathers , all the Learned of former Ages , the whole Current of the Christian World from CHRIST unto our age . None of which have stood for Usury , for the space of fifteene hundred yeares after CHRIST .

But these , you will say , are Humane authorities . And so are yours . Yet mark the odds . I oppose to your few supposed Patrons of Usury of late times , the generall judgement of the Church for this fifteene hundred yeares . For the covetousnesse of these times hath made a controversie , which in former ages was never doubted of . * * 〈◊〉 pag. 7● . Nay , ( I imagine you know who hath made it good ) Authority of all sorts , divine , and humane ; Ecclesiasticall , and prophane ; naturall , and morall : Of all Ages , old , new , midling : Of all Churches , Primitive , Romane , Reformed : Of all Common-Weales , Jewish , Christian , Heathenish : Of all Lawes , Forraine and Domesticall .

Nay M. S. Will you heare the words of one of your own Men , whom you muster up in your Catalogue as One of yours : I meane B. Iewell . These are his words : upon 1 Thess. Chap. 3. ver. 6. pag. 80. But what speake I , saith He , of the ancient Fathers of the Church ? ( having produced many against Vsury ) There was never any Religion , nor sect , nor state , nor degree , nor Profession of men , but they have disliked it : Usury sc. Philosophers , Greekes , Latines , Lawyers , Divines , Catholicks , Hereticks : All tongues and Nations have ever thought an Usurer as dangerous , as a Theefe . The very sence of nature prooveth it to be so . If the stones could speake , they would say as much . These are the very words of One , whom you pretend to be on your side .

But let us come to the Scriptures . And dare you indeed M. S. stand to the triall of that pure and Heavenly Touchstone ?

Consider then these places :

Exod. 12. 25. Levit. 25. 35 , 36. Deut. 23. 19.

Psal. 15. 5. Ezek. 18. 13 , 17. And 22. 12.

Pro. 28. 8. Luke 6. 35.

Now M. S. against these many Places condemning Vsury ; bring you so much as One , to allow it . You are not able to bring One rightly understood . Here is then as great odds in Divine , as Humane Authorities . What will you doe now ? Fall to your shifts .

In the Scriptures , say you ,

1. Mention is made of the poore expressely ; Ob. 1. and therefore you conceive , and conclude , that if you forbeare the Poore , you may be an Usurer to the Rich. And for this purpose Usurers urge Exod. 22. 25. Levit. 25. 35.

1. May you not M. S. as well reason thus from Answ. 1. ver. 22. of the same Chap. Thou shalt not afflict any Widow or Fatherlesse Childe : Here mention is onely made of the Widow and Fatherlesse : therefore , if these bee forborne , Thou maist afflict a married woman , or a childe that hath a Father ? May you not by the like reason proove it no sin to rob a rich Man : because Prov. 22. 22. It is said : Rob not the poore , because He is poore . Then all robbery is not forbidden , but onely that towards the poore , ( may you say ) and therefore we may rob the rich , because He is rich , and may well spare it ? You may clearely see the poorenesse and weakenesse of your collection , by these three absurd paralell inconsequences .

Moses forbiddeth to oppresse an hired servant , that is poore and needy : Deut. 24. 14. therefore , if He be rich and wealthy , you may oppresse Him . This is Usurers Logique . See Psal. 82. 3 , 4.

2. In other places of Scripture , as Psal. 15. 5. Ezek. 18. 13 , 17. And Chap. 22. 12. Prov. 28. 8. Which are as it were Commentaries , and Expositions of the Law , there is no mention of the poore , but Vsury is absolutely forbidden without respect of Persons . Nay to prevent this shift , and to demonstrate this evasion to be very frivolous . In the very Text Deut. 2● . 19. there is no mention of the poore at all , but the Law is delivered in generall termes : Thou shalt not lend upon Vsury to thy Brother . Now He is your Brother whether He be rich or poore . The partition wall is now taken away , and both Jew and Gentile , rich and poore are Brethren ; and therefore we must exact Usury of none , except we would be worse then Jewes . Our Saviour Christ Luke 6. 34. gives this testimony to the very sinners of His time amongst the Jewes , that they would lend One unto an Other , that they might receive so much , as they lent . And therefore not so much , as the least Usury was lawfull towards a Brother , whether He were poore or rich . If the Scriptures had put such a difference betweene the poore and the rich , as betweene the Israelite and Cananite : To the rich thou maist ; but to the poore Thou shalt not lend upon Vsury : Then the case were cleare . But Deut. 23. 19 , 20. GOD makes opposition , not betweene the poore and the rich : but betweene an Israelite and Cananite . For by stranger in that Place , is meant the Hittites , the Gergashites , the Amorites , the Cananites , the Perisites , the Hivites and Jebusites , and no other stranger as may be collected , Levit. 25. 35. So also doth Saint Ambrose De Tobia , cap. 15. Paulus Fagius Annot. in Cald. Paraphras . in Deut. 23. 20. See Fenton pag. 45. Iun. Annot. Ibid. expound it . What these the Jewes were commanded to destroy , Deut. 7. 12. And Usury was as teeth given them , and allowed by GOD to eate them up withall : Whence that of Saint Ambrose De Tobia , cap. 15. Ab hoc usuram exige , quem non sit crimen occidere . Seest thou a man , whom Thou maist lawfully kill ? take use of Him , but not of thy Brother .

3. In the lawes of Usury , and other prohibitions of oppression , expresse mention is made of the poore and helplesse , Because 1. The poore are soonest , and easiest oppressed of the Rich ; as the lowest hedge is oftnest stepped over . 2. It is a more grievous sinne to oppresse the Poore . 3. Those onely who have need , have just occasion to borrow .

4. Shall a speciall Instance in some one Object , which makes the sinne forbidden extreamely hatefull , abridge and restraine the generality of a law ? Will the exageration of a sinne in the highest degree make all those actions no sinne , which come not to that degree ? Because it is an heinous offence to steale a Cow from a poore man , is it not a sinne to steale a Sheepe from a rich man , that can spare it full well , and perhaps never misse it ?

5. Nay M. S. will you stand in this exception to the verdict of your owne Witnesse in the very Point for which you produce Him ; I meane of the rarest Iewell , that ever the English Church enjoyed . These are His words upon 1 Thess. Chap. 3. pag. 86.

Thus much saith He , I thought expedient to speake of the loathsome , & foule Trade of Usury — I call GOD for a record unto my soule , I have not decived you , I have spoken unto you the truth . If I be deceived in this matter , O GOD Thou hast deceived me . Thy word is plaine . Thou saiest : Thou shalt take no Vsury . Thou saiest , He that taketh increase shall not live . What am I , that I should hide the words of my GOD , or keepe them backe from the hearing of this people . The learned old Fathers taught us , It is no more lawfull to take Usury of our Brother , then it is to kill our Brother , &c. Marke the last words . And then looke backe , upon pag. 78. lin. 22. Where He saith : He is thy Brother , whether he be poore , or rich : And then conclude plainely , that the worthiest of your pretended Patrons , condemnes Usury-taking , either of rich or poore .

6. If Usury finde a man rich , * * Hence that of Iunius . Nos itaque damnandam esse , & intolerandam omnem Usuram non possumus adfirmare , sed eam solùm quae pauperes , egentes opprimit , aut pauperes facit . Appen . ad Expl. Levit. pag. 115. yet it bringeth with it a paire of Canniballs chops , and many cruell teeth , to eate out the very Heart of His estate , except He cunningly heale Himselfe by some other covetous way , or unconscionable course . Hence it is that Saint Chrysostome compares Usury to an Aspe , which together with the poyson infufes a delightfull sleepe , but in that sweete insensiblenesse takes away life : So the Usurers money refreshes for a time , but by little , and little , sucks out the very life-bloud of a mans estate . And that of Saint Basil to to those , that objected , That many by the imployment of money borrowed upon Usury , grew rich : But I thinke , * * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil , Hom adu . Usur . moe saith He , have come to the Halter . His meaning is , by paying Usury they have growne poore , and so fallen a stealing , and at last come to hanging . To speake more fitly to these sinnes : But I thinke moe have prooved Bankerupts . And againe , How many of your Usurers are free lenders to the poore , except it be in cunning , out of a deepe Hypocrisie to colour their usurious cruelty ?

7. If the law of lending to the poore , without usury , should inferre the lawfullnesse of lending to the rich upon usury : How should GODS purpose in those places , for the benefit of the poore have place ? Because by this meanes , it would come to passe , that the poore should very hardly , or not borrow at all . For how few would lend to the poore for nothing , when as they might lawfully lend to the rich upon usury . Now it were better for the poore , that He might borrow upon Usury , then that He might not borrow at all .

The Scripture , saith the Usurer , forbids Ob. 2. onely byting Vsury : 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Morsury , which commeth of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mordere , to bite . There is , thinkes He , a certaine toothlesse , or not byting Usury , which is tollerable .

1. What will not Covetousnesse catch at , to Answ. 1. nourish its greedy , and cruell humour ? Nesheck is the common , and ordinary name whereby all Usury is signified in the Hebrew Tongue . And doth Metaphorically intimate , and import the aggravation of the sinne , not a distinction of the kindes of Usury . Epithets and Originals serve more to amplifie and exaggerate , then to distinguish . See T. pag. 53. Hence it is also that Usury in the Chaldee is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chabulia , i. e. Perditio , quòd omnes opes perdat & devastet .

2. The Scriptures condemne not onely Nesheck , but also Tarbith . And that not onely in the Comments of the Prophets : Ezech. 18. 17. And 22. 12. Prov. 28. 8. But in the very Text of the Law it selfe , Levit. 25. 36. Vetarbith . And v. 37. Vbemarbith .

Nesheck is the ordinary word in the Scriptures , to signifie Usury . Which the HOLY GHOST useth to expound by other two words Tarbith and Marbith , both derived from the same roote 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to increase , So that he which exacteth an increase , or gaine above His principall , or requireth more by covenant , then He lent , He taketh Tarbith , or Marbith , that is Usury . Which is condemned also , saith that most worthy Calvin , ( whom you produce as a Patron ) in Pentateuchum , pag. 355. That He may cut off , saith he , such cavills as these : Vtrumque nomen conjungit — ac generaliter damnat quamlibet sortis accessionem : He couples both the words together — And generally condemnes any addition , or increase above the principall . For why should Tarbith bee added unto Nesheck , both in the letter of the Law , and the Prophets ? It must be added : either 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , to make a gradation ; as if not biting Usury onely were forbidden , but any increase whatsoever : Or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , that is by way of exposition , and so of equall latitude with Nesheck , onely declaring what GOD meant by biting Usury , namely any increase in that kinde whatsoever . And therefore let not us distinguish these words which the HOLY GHOST confounds , saith a worthy man ; and much lesse upon this frivolous distinction , let us build our practise or hazard the eternall salvation of our foules . For we know Ezek. 18. 13. who hath said : He that putteth forth to Vsury , or taketh increase ; shall He live ? He shall not live , He shall die the death ; and His bloud shall bee upon Him .

3. All Usury biteth . Money so lent commeth not empty home : but biteth off , knaweth away , and bringeth with it some part of the borrowers wealth , and substance . Who if He cannot licke Himselfe whole againe , or heale His wound by biting others , ( as commonly they doe ) He findeth and feeleth in the end , that Usury hath teeth .

Biting is individuall , and essentiall both to the name , and nature of Usury . It ever bites , and stings one , or other , lesse , or more , either the Borrower , or the Common-wealth . Either like the morning Wolfe , it sucks out the life , the bloud , and the marrow of a poore man : Or like a Mastive it snatches a peece and portion out of the Borowers substance : Or like a Waspe or the Dog-flie , it stings Him , one way , or other in His estate . All sorts of Usury , even from that Centesima the hundreth part monethly , which Nehemiah complaineth of , which is twelve in the hundred ; unto that semiuncianum Foenus ten shillings in an hundred pounds , hath teeth . Some more empoisoned , bloudy Fangs then other : but all bite . In every Tarbith there is a Nesheck , 〈◊〉 in every Usury .

But suppose the Borrower sometimes in respect of the event , or by accident , be not so bitten , or damnified : yet the Common-wealth , and especially the Communalty pay for it . Our Divines expresse the Point thus :

If money be lent to spend upon necessaries , there is no question made , but the Borrower is sore bitten in paying Usury , when he hath spent the principall : If it be lent to lay out for gaine , then must the Borrower first be sure of so much cleare gaine , as will pay the use ; which is a reasonable gaine of it selfe : For the Usurers of nine , or ten in the hundred doe live richly of that accursed trade : yea many honest Tradesmen , will confesse , that if they could with their owne free stock , raise the like gaine , one time with an other , that the Usurer doth with his money ; and with the like security of the principall , they would think , they had made a very good market , notwithstanding all their care , and travell . This reasonable gaine then , must first bee raised by the Borrower , to pay the Usurer ; and over and above , He must exceed this reasonable gaine , to maintaine Himselfe , and His Servants , because this gaine is none of His. If He doe not exceed then , and that in some proportion , Hee hath lost His labour , and shall feele Himselfe sore bitten . And if the Borrower doe exceed the Usurers gaine , to maintaine Himselfe ; I demand then who paieth this excessive gaine over and above that reasonable gaine , of ten in the Hundred ? Who but the Common-weale ? Not so , saith the Usurer ; For the Borrower must sell , as the Market goeth . It is very true . Therefore , say I , If He and His fellowes be not able to raise the Market , to their owne price , they shall bee loosers : If they can inhaunce it , ( as they may the more easily , because the number of such Borrowers is great , and because the rest desiring to sell as deare as they can , will most willingly joyne with them ) then the Common-weale must needs beare the burthen , and especially the poorer sort , who buying all by peece-meale , at the last hand , must bee sore bitten , though they know not by whom .

It is incredible , to consider how great the biting and burthen of the Common-wealth is in this Case . For who doubts , but that many millions of pounds are put out to Vsury in this Land yearely : partly in money borrowed upon Vsury ; partly in wares taken on trust , whether by Merchants themselves , or by retailers from them , or by the particular buyers from the Retailers : the Usury of every million , which are many , after ten in the hundred , being an hundred thousand pounds . Of which biting and burthen the Common-wealth might be eased , If Vsury were abolished .

Heare your owne Man , whom you produce as a Patron of Vsury , that Reverend and Worthy Iewell : upon 1 Thess. 4. pag. 83. A Merchant taketh up of his Neighbour an hundred pounds , and must answer againe an hundred and ten pounds . He bestoweth it all in corne , and buyeth for his hundred pounds , an hundred quarters of corne . He sendeth it to the Market , the people have need of it , and buy it . If He sold it for eight groats a Bushell , he might make up his hundred pounds , and be a gainer . But unlesse He make up an hundred and ten pounds to discharge his Vsury , He must needs be a looser , and undone . But undone He will not be : Hee will rather undoe many others . Therefore He setteth price at three shillings , and so maketh His money , and paieth the Usurer , and saveth Himselfe , and is no looser . Who then paieth the ten pounds ? Who is the looser ? Any man may see . The poore people which buy the corne . They finde it and feele it in every morsell they eate . Thus , saith He , if the Merchant Borrower be not hindred by the Usurer : yet the people that buyeth His wares are plagued . Thus it is no hard matter to finde , that howsoever Vsury bee used , it is alwaies dangerous , and beguileth the people , and is therefore the destruction , and overthrow of the Common-wealth .

4. M. Dike tells us pag. 211. How full of subtle and sophisticall wit our hearts are in cunning distinctions for the confusion of our soules .

He instanceth in some Particulars .

But what , as he there intimates , if these , and the like , proove to bee rotten distinctions , and false Glosses upon their Beds of death , as indeed they are ; what s then their Case ? As they have leaned in their life time upon such broken staves of reed : Their confidence in that dreadfull houre will be but as the Spiders House .

The Law of Moses concerning Vsury is judiciall Ob. 3. not Morrall ; Politicall onely , and proper to the Jewish Nation ; not perpetuall , and binding all .

.1 . Prohibition of Biting Vsury , Usurers will Answ. 1. confesse , is Morrall , but , it appeares in answer to the second Objection ; that , that Vsury which is forbidden in the Law , is biting , Ergo , &c.

Or thus : That which is unjust and uncharitable is forbidden by the Morrall Law : But when out of the uncertaine negotiation of the Borrower , the lender covenanteth for certaine gaine , and accordingly exacteth His covenanted gaine ; as well out of the Borrowers losse , as out of His gaine , which is the practise of the Vsurer , ( For in the contract of actuall Vsury there is an absolute covenant for certaine gaine , which the Borrower , whether He shall gaine or loose is absolutely bound to pay together with the Principall ) is unjust and uncharitable , Ergo , &c.

Great and certaine gaine accrewes to the Vsurer : sometimes out of little gaine ; sometimes out of no gaine ; sometimes out of losse ; alwaies out of uncertainties ; alwaies out of labour and paines , out of care and cost , out of hazard and perill to the Borrower . Is this conscionable ?

2. The Law of free lending is Morrall , renewed by our Saviour , Mat. 5. 42. Deut. 15. 8. Luke 6. 35. Therefore the Law , which forbiddeth Vsury , or lending for gaine , is Morrall : For the same Law , which commandeth the Affirmative , condemneth the Negative .

3. The Holy Prophets raunge it amongst the greatest abominations , and most hainous transgressions of the Morrall Law : with lying , backbiting , deceit , wrong , bribery : Psal. 15. with Idolatry , oppression , adultery , cruelty , unmercifullnesse to the poore , bloud-shed , and murther : Ezek. 18. With the profanation of holy things , with the abomination of uncleanenesse , with the unnaturall sins of incest , Ezek. 22.

So doth the Doctrine of our Church : Verily so many as increase themselves by Vsury , by extortion , by perjury , by stealth , by deceits and craft ; they have their goods of the Divels gift . Homily For the daies of Rogation weeke , p. 2. p. 3.

Excep . GOD permitted the letting out of Vsury to the stranger , Therefore the prohibition cannot bee Morrall : For GOD is not wont to permit any transgression of the Morrall Law .

Rep. Nay . Sith the same Vsury , which is forbidden in the Law is permitted towards a stranger , therefore this permission of Vsury is prooved to be judiciall , and the Prohibition Morrall . This permission rather prooves it to be unlawfull in it selfe : For if it were lawfull in it selfe , it should not need to be permitted . The putting away of a mans innocent wife , being a thing simply , and in it selfe evill ; was notwithstanding permitted to the Jewes .