All the examinacions of the constante martir of God M. Iohn Bradforde before the Lorde Chauncellour, B. of Winchester the B. of London, [and] other co[m]missioners: whervnto ar annexed, his priuate talk [and] conflictes in prison after his condemnacion, with the Archbishop of york, the B. of Chichester, Alfonsus, and King Philips confessour, two Spanishe freers, and sundry others. With his modest learned and godly answeres. Anno. Domini 1561

¶ All the examinacions of the Constante Martir of GOD M. Iohn Bradforde , before the Lorde Chauncellour . B. of Winchester the B. of London , & other commissioners : Whervnto ar annexed his priuate talk & conflictes in prison after his condemnacion , with the Archbishop of york , the B. of Chichester , Alfonsus , and King Philips confessour , two Spanishe freers , and sundry others . With his modest learned and godly answeres .

Anno. Domini 1561

¶ Cum Priuilegio ad imprimendum solum .

¶ The Originall of his Lyfe .

IOhn Bradford borne in Lancastershire , in Manchester , a notable towne of that countrey , was of his gentle parentes brought vp in vertue & good learning euen from his very childhode , & among other praises of his good educacion , he obtained as a chief gift , the connynge & redines of writing , which knowledge was not onely an ornamente vnto him , but also an helpe to the necessary sustentacion of his liuing . About the time , was one sir Ihon Harington paymaster to king Henry the .8 . which at Boloign by order of knighthode being muche renomed , but yet by his own vertue a great deale more noble , was ther suruier and paymaister of the souldiers . Who then had the seruice of master Bradford , & so kept him both in his family & in his fauor : that it can scarce be told whether liued to other , ether more beloued or more profitable . For Bradford both lerned many things of him , & also experience and practise of thinges more increased & abounded . On the otherside , he whiche tried his seruice so faithful , estemed him as a great treasure & so loued him : that in all his affaires he would alwaies bee coupled with him . In which trade of life when Bradford long time had bene conuersant , the way to riches semed not so farre of vnto him , if he woulde haue set his mind to gathering of worldly riches , but the immutable prouidence of god drew him another way . For after he was wery of this kind of life , & had made a diligent and true accompt of his maisters affairs : he desired licence to depart , and so went from him to the intent that he being rid of all other troubles , he might serue Iesu Christe , the secrete working of goddes calling so mouinge him , which neuer suffred his minde to be at rest : vntil it had fully & wholy possessed him : In so muche that after he had forsaken his master , & gotten him to the studye of the law , his minde could not long abide in that trade of lawyers , but that forsaking also that kinde of study , in whiche he was not altogether ignorant : he departed from the temple where he studied the common and temporal lawes , to Cambridge the temple of gods lawes to apply those studies , which pertained more to the ministerye of gods church . In the which , with what vehemens and force he labored , it is euident by this : that the first yere of his comimng thether , he obteined degree of schole , and was made maister of art , & gatte the fauour and admiration of all men , that by and by he was chosen felowe of Penbrooke hall , where he so daily profited , by a certayn heauenvly dexterite of his wit , that as he was had in estimacion of all good men : so also he began to be welbeloued of Martin Bucer , which hoped of no small fruit to procede , from that his so godlye disposicion . wherefore he counselled him , to bestow his giftes and talent , to the common profyte of instructynge Christes flock . To whom when he had alledged hys weakenes and lack of learnyng : Bucer answered , that though he could not fede them with fine cakes and white bread , yet he should satisfye them with barly bread , wer it neuer so course . By whose often exhortacions Bradforde beynge boldened , althoughe of his owne accord he was redy inough while he was altogether in this thought it came happelye to passe , that by D. Ridly bishoppe of London , he was sent for from Cambridge , to take vppon him ecclesiasticall orders and functions . Of whom beyng first made deacon and afterward licensed to preach hauing a good stipend out of the Cathedrall church of Poules : he diligently labored in the ministery of publike teching in the church of god , so long as kinge Edwarde liuinge there could be any place for godly teachers . But when at lenght the religion changed by death of the prince , and he neuerthelesse exercised his office of preching : an occason was found and yet most vniust ( because that by the lawes it was not yet concluded ) that his mouth being stopped he was thruste into prison : the occasion was this . The xiii . day of August , one of the Popish sect called Bourn afterward bishop of Bathe , railed with many wordes most shamefully vpon king Edward , and the pure doctrine of the gospel in his time preched , whoso behaued himself , that he had muche a doe to escape , but that the multitude of hearers would haue laide hande vpon him , and pulled him out of the pulpit , which thing they declared by manifest tokens . For so great was the indignacion of al men kindled against him , that neither with the reuerence of the place , nor by the aucthoritie of the bishop of London then present , nor at the lawful commandement of the Maire : this commocion of the people could be pacyfied . But as for Bourn , he was so stricken with feare bothe by the greatnes of the tumulte , & chieflye for a dagger whyche was throwne from the middes of the company against the pulpit : that he durst not make an ende of hys sedicious sermond ( much like the Oracions that the Tribunes in Rome wer wonte to make ) nether would the people suffer him : he humbly desired Bradford which stode behind his backe in the pulpit , that he would take his place & speake to the people remembringe perchaunce , and not vnwiselye vyrgils counsel . That when among a people stoute It chaunceth to betide The multitude to make a fraye Of wit ful often wide , That stones & wepons flies a brode and what come first to hande Some sadman commeth that for his right Is loned of all the land : Anon thei ceaste and silence make , And doune thei laie there rage To harke at him , and he with speche their woode minds doth aswage . Neyther was his purpose disappointed , for as sone as Bradford stode forth in the middest : al the tumulte was easilye appeased , & the people at the first sight of him , wished him long helth , crying Bradforde Bradforde god preserue thy life Bradford . After that with much attencion thei heard him entreat of quiet & christian obedience . Finally after his sermond ended : the most part of them went quietlye & peasably home to their houses . In the meane time amonge the residew which resisted ( for it could not bee that in so great offence of the multitude , al thinges could so quickly be quieted ) there was a certayn gentleman with his two seruants , whiche comming vp the pulpytte staires rushed against the doore , desyring to enter vpon Bourn , I know not what he minded . Than Bradforde whiche seemed to knowe hym , and perceyuyng his entente : resysted as muche as he coulde , in the meane tyme , priuelye geuynge Bourne warnynge by hys Seruaunte , that hee shoulde auoyde the presente daunger as soone as he could . Bourne streight waie flying vnto the Maior once againe , escaped death , & yet not thinking himselfe safe ynoughe , he desired Bradford that he woulde vouchsafe to be present and help him , til he mighte hide himselfe in some house , that he might be safe from all feare and daunger , which gentlenes he willingly perfourmed , that is to saie he couered him behinde with his gowne , till by the Maior and the Sherifes , he was safely brought into Poules scole . On this wise the railing preacher against king Edward , by Bradfordes helpe escaped death , which for his raylinge he had deserued , whiche thing thei whiche woulde haue bene reuenged of him , dyd not dissemble , for one of them openly testifying to Bradford . said : Ah Bradforde Bradforde dooest thou saue his lyfe whiche will not spare thyne ? goe too I geue thee his lyfe , but if it were not for thy sake , I woulde thrust thys beast through with my sworde . Mayster Bradforde the same daye after dinner preaching to the Londoners in the chiefe streate of the citie , did sharply rebuke them for this sedicious and tumultuouse behauiour , waytinge afterwarde at London what should be th end of this businesse . Thou hast now reader the whole discourse of Bradfordes facte , whereby thou dooest vnderstande what reward he deserued of equall Iudges , for so godly seruice . Nowe heare what rewarde he receiued .

Thre daies after this was done he was sente for by the counsell , & bishoppes , to the towre where the Queene than laye , and was compelled before them to purge hymselfe of sedicion and heresy , surely by the same reason , that the lambe sometyme was accused by the wolfe for troubling the water , in which he dronke a greate deale lower than the woolfe , not that he had offended , but that the woolfe was an hungred , not that hee hadde troubled the water , but that he was not hable to resyste the other , whiche troubled it in deede . After the same sorte was Bradforde sette a fyer wyth the flame of that Sedicion , whyche hee alone dyd quenche , and so commaunded to prysone , where abydynge almoste twoo yeares together hee sustayned manye conflictes with the Papistes and other sectes , he confirmed manye weake and coumforted the afflycted , he wrote also manye thynges , as hee hadde leysure and got opportunitye by stealth . And among other thynges hee sente manye Epistles , the copies whereof are extante , to the Citizens of London , to the Vnyuersite and towne of Cambridge , to the townes of Walden and Manchester , also to hys twoo brethren theyr wyues and famylyes , in whiche Epistles , the syncere zeale of hys Christyan heart and godlines , doth marueilously appeare . At lengthe after long labours & sorowes , he was priuily ledde from the counter by night to Newgate . The next daie earlye in the morninge , he was brought foorth into Smithfield , with an other younge manne called Ihon Lyefe being eightene yeres olde , he was there burnte . At London the firste of Iulii . Anno M.D.LV.

¶ The effect of . M. Iohn Bradfordes examinacion before the Lord Chanceller B. of Winchester , the B. of London and others in commission the .22 . of Aprill . Anno. Domini .1555 .

AFter the Lord Chancellor and the residew of the Queenes councel in commission with him , had ended their talke with master Farrar late bishop of S. Dauies : the vndermarshal of the kings Bench was commaunded to bring in maister Bradford , who being come in to the presence of the counsel sitting at a table he kneling down on his knee , but immediately by my lord Chauncelor was bidden to stand vp and so he did . When he was risen the lord Chauncelor earnestly loked vpon him , to haue ( be lyke ) ouerfaced him : but he gaue no place , that is , he ceased not in like maner , to loke on the lorde Chancelor stil and continuallye ( saue the once he caste his eyes to heauen warde sighing for gods help ) and so outfaced him as they say . Then the Lorde Chauncelor , as it were amased and some thing troubled : spake thus to hym in effecte , that of long tyme he had bene imprysoned iustly , for his behauioure at Poules crosse the .xiii. of Auguste Anno. 1554. for his false prechinge and arrogancye , takinge vppon hym to preache withoute aucthoritie . But nowe , quoth hee , the tyme of mercye is come , and therefore the Queenes highnesse myndyng to offer vnto you mercy , hath by vs sente for you , to declare and geue the same , if so bee ye will with vs retourne . And quoth he yf you wyll dooe as we haue done , you shall finde as we haue founde I warraunte you . These were the summe , and euen in maner , the words he spake . To these woordes maister Bradford spake , after reuerent obeysaunce made , in thys maner . My Lorde and Lordes all , I confesse that I haue beene longe prisoned , and ( with humble reuerence be it spoken ) vniustlye , for that I dyd nothynge sediciouslye , falselye , or arrogantlye , in worde or fact , by preching or otherwise , but rather sought peace , & al godly quietnes as an obedient & faithful subiecte bothe in going aboute to saue the bishoppe of Bathe now , the● M. Bourne the preacher at the crosse , and in preaching for quietnes accordingly . At these wordes or rather before he had fullye finished them the lorde Chauncellor some thing snuffed , and spake with an admiracion , that there was a loude lie . For quoth he , the fact was sedicious as you my lord of London can beare witnes , you saye trewe my lorde , quoth the bishop of London . I sawe him with mine owne eyes when he tooke vpon him to rule , and leade the people malypertly , therby declaring that he was the authour of the sedicion . Heare Iohn Bradforde replied , & sayd : that notwithstandinge my lorde bishops seyng & sayinge that he had tolde , was the trueth , as one daye quoth he , my lord god almightye shall reueile to all the world , when we all shall come and appeare before him . In the meane season because I cannot be beleued of you , I must , and am ready to suffer , as now your sayings : so whatsoeuer God shall licence you to doe vnto me . I know , quoth my lord Chancellor then , thou haste a gloriouse tonge , & godlye shewes thou makest , but all is lyes that thou doest . And againe , I haue not forgotten how stubburne thou wert when thou werte before vs in the Towre , whether thou wast committed to prison concerning relygion . I haue not forgotten thy behauiour and talk , wher through , worthely thou hast bene kepte in prison , as one that would haue done more hurt then I wil speake of . My Lorde ( quoth Bradforde ) as I sayd , I say again , that I stand , as before you , so before god , & one day we shall al stand before him , The trueth then will be the truth , though you wyl not now , so take it . Yea my lorde ( quoth he ) I dare saye that my lorde of Bathe ( M. Bourne ) will witnes with me , that I sought his sauegard , with the perill of myne owne life , I thank god therefore . That is not trew , quoth the bishop of London , for I my self did see thee , take vpon thee to muche . No , quoth Bradforde , I tooke nothinge vppon me , vndesired and that of master Bourn himselfe , as if he were here present , I dare saye he woulde affirme it , for hee desired me , bothe to helpe him to pacifie the people , and not to leaue him till he was in safety . And as for my behauioure in the Towre , and talk before your hohours , if I did or saide any thing that did not beseme me , if wherin your lordships woulde tell me : I should and would shortely make you aunswer . Wel ( quoth my lord Chancelor ) to leaue this matter , how saist thou now , wilt thou returne again , and doe as we haue done , and thou shalte receiue the Queenes mercy and pardon ? M● lorde , quoth Bradforde , I desire mercy with gods mercy , but mercy with Gods wrathe , god keepe me from , althoughe , I thanke God therefore , my conscience doeth not accuse me that I did or spake any thing , wherfore I should nede to receiue mercye or pardon . For all that euer I did or spake , was agreinge to Goddes lawes , and the lawes of the realm at that present , and did make much quietnes . Well quoth my lord Chancelor , if thou make this babling rolling in thy eloquent tonge , beyng altogether ignoraunt and vayne glorious , and will not receyue mercy offered to thee : knowe for trueth that the Quene is mynded to make a purgacion of all suche as thou arte . The Lorde quoth Bradforde to fore whom I stand as well as before you , knoweth what vain glory I haue sought , and seke in this behalf . His mercy I desire , & also would bee glad of the Queenes fauor , to lyue as a subiecte without clogge of conscience , but otherwise the lordes mercye is to me better then lyfe . And I knowe , quoth he , to whom I haue committed my life : euen to his handes which will kepe it so , that no man maye take it awaye before it be his pleasure . There ar 1● . houres in the daie , and as long as they last , so long shall no man haue power theron . Therfore his good will be done , life in his dyspleasure is worse then death , and death in his true fauour is trewe lyfe . I knowe wel ynough , quoth my Lorde Chauncellor , that wee shoulde haue glorious talke ynough of thee , be sure therefore that as thou hast deceyued the people with false and deuilishe doctrine : so shalte thou receiue . I haue not deceiued , quod Bradforde , the people , nor taught any other doctrine , then by Gods grace I am ( and hope shall be ) ready to confirme with my lyfe . And as for deuilishnesse and falsenesse in the doctrine I woulde bee sorye you could so proue it . Why ( quoth the Bishop of Duresme ) tell me what you say by the ministracion of the communion , as you now know it is : My lorde ( saithe Bradforde ) here must I desire of your Lordeship , and of all youre honours : a question , tofore I doe make aunswere to any intergatorie or question , wherewith you now begin . I haue bene .vi. tymes sworne , that I should in no case consent , to the practysing of any iurisdiccion , or any authoritie on the Bishop of Romes behalf , within this realm of Englande . Nowe therfore ( before God ) I humbly pray your honours , to tel me , whether you ask me this question , by his aucthoritie or not ? If you dooe I dare not nor maye not aunswere you anye thyng in his aucthorite you shall demaunde of me , excepte I would be forsworne , whiche God forbid . Hast thou bene sworne .vi. tymes quoth maister Secretarye Burne , what offices haste thou borne ? Here is an other lie , quoth my Lorde Chauncelor . Forsooth , quoth Bradfoode , I was thryse sworn in Cambridge , when I was admitted maister of Arte , when I was admitted felowe in Pembrock Hall , and when I was there , the Visiters came thether and sware the Vniuersitye . Agayne I was sworne when I entered into the mynisterye , when I hadde a prebende geuen me , and when I was sworne to serue the Kynge a litle before his death .

Tushe quoth my lorde Chauncelor , Herodes othes a man should make no conscience at . But , quoth Bradford , mi lord , these othes wer no Herodes othes , nor no vnlawfull othes , but othes according to gods woorde , as you youre selfe haue well affirmed in youre boke de Vera obedientia . My lords quoth an other of the counsel , that stode by the table , M. Rochester I wene , I neuer knewe wherfore this man was in prison before nowe , but I see wel , that it had not bene good that this man had beene abrode . What so euer was the cause he was laide in prison I know not , but I now see well , that not without cause he was , and is to be kept in prisone . Yea , quoth Secretarye Bourn , it was reported this parliament tyme by the Erle of Derby , that he hath doone more hurte by letters , and exhortinge these that haue come to him , in religion , them euer he did when he was abrode by preachinge . In his letters he curseth al that teacheth false doctrine ( for so he calleth that whiche is not according to that he taught ) and moste earnestly exhorteth them to whome he writeth to continue still in that they haue receiued by him , and such lyke as he is . All which woordes diuers others of of the counsel affirmed , wherunto the saide maister Bourn added saying , howe saye you serra ( speaking to Bradforde ) haue you not thus sediciouslye written , and exhorted the people . I haue , quoth Bradford , written nor spoken any thing sediciouslye : and , I thanke god therefore , I haue not admytted any sedicious cogitacion , nor I trust neuer shall dooe . yea , but thou haste wrytten letters , quoth maister Secretary Bourne . why speakest thou not , quoth my lord Chauncelour , hast thou not written as he saith . That , quoth Bradforde , I haue wrytten , I haue written . Lorde God ( quoth . M. Southwell ) what an arrogant & stubburne boye is this , that thus stoutlye and dallyengly , behaue hymself before the Queenes counsell . whereat , one looked vpon an other , with disdaynefull countenaunce . My lordes and masters , quoth Bradforde , the Lorde God whiche is , and wyll iudge vs all : knoweth , that as I am certayne I stande nowe before his maiestye , so wyth reuerence in hys syghte , I stande beefore you vnto youre , and accordyngly , in woordes and gesture I desyre to behaue my selfe . yf you otherwyse take it , I doubte not but God in hys tyme wyll reuele it . In the meane season , I shall suffer with all due obedyence , your sayinges and deedes too , I hope . These bee gay glorious wordes , quoth my Lorde Chauncelour , of reuerence , reuerence , but as in al other thynges , so hrrein thou doest nothyng but lye . Well quoth Bradforde , I would God the authour of trueth , and abhorrer of lyes , woulde pul my tounge out of my head before you all , and shewe a terrible iudgemente on me here presentlye : yf I haue purposed or dooe purpose , to lye beefore you , whatsoeuer you shall aske me .

Why then , quoth my lord Chancelor , doest thou not answer ? haste thou written such letters as here is obiected against the ? As I said my lord ( quod Bradforde ) that I haue written I haue written . I stande nowe before you whiche eyther can laye my letters to my charge or not , if you lay any thing to my charge that I haue written , if I denye it I am then a lier . we shall neuer haue done with thee I perceiue now , saith my lord Chancelor , be short , be short , wylt thou haue mercy ? I praye God ( quoth Bradforde ) geue me his mercie , & if therwith you wil extend yours , I wyll not refuse it , but otherwise I wil not . Heare was now much a dooe , one speaking thus and other speaking that , of his arrogancye in refusing the Queenes pardon whiche she so louyngly ▪ dyd offer vnto him . wherto Bradforde aunswered thus : my lordes yf I may liue as a quiete subiect , withoute clogge of conscience , I shal hartely thanke you , for your pardon , yf otherwyse I behaue my selfe , then I am in daunger of the faute . In the meane season , I aske no more , but the benefite of a subiect , till I be conuinced of transgression . If I cannot haue this , as hitherto I haue not had , goddes good wyll be doone . Vppon these wordes , my lord Chauncelor begon a long proces , of the false doctrine , wherewith people were deceiued , in the dayes of kyng Edwarde , and so tourned the ende of his talk to Bradforde , saying , how sayst thou . My lord , quoth Bradforde , the doctrine taught i● K●●g Edwardes daies was gods pure religion , the whiche as I then beleued , so doe I nowe more beleue then euer I didde . And therein I am more confirmed and ready to declare it , by gods grace euen as he will , to the worlde , then I was when I firste came into prisone . What religion meane you ( quoth the bishop of Durisme , in Kynge Edwardes daies ? what yeare of his raigne ? Forsoth ( quoth Bradforde ) euen that same yere of hys raigne ( my Lorde ) that the kynge dyed and I was preacher . Heare wrote maister Secretary Bourn I wotte not what . Nowe after a lytle pawsyng , my Lorde Chauncelloure begynneth agayne to declare , that the doctryne taught in Kynge Edwardes dayes , was heresye vsynge for probacion and demonstra●ion therof no Scryppure nor reason but thys , that i● ended wyth Treason and Rebellion , so that ( quoth he ) the verye ende were ynoughe to improue , that doctryne to bee naughte . Ah my Lorde ( quoth Bradford ) that you would enter in to Gods Sanctuarie , and marke the ende of this present doctrine , you nowe so magnifie . What meanest thou by that ( quoth he ) I wene we shal haue a snatche of rebellion euen now . No ( quoth Bradforde ) my lord I meane no suche ende as you woulde gather , I meane an ende whiche none seeth but thei that enter into gods Sanctuarie . If a man loke but on present thyngs , he wil sone deceiue himself . Heare now dyd my Lorde Chauncellor offer againe mercye , and Bradford answered as before , mercye with gods mercy should be welcome , but otherwise he would none . Whervpon the said lord Chancellor dyd ring a litle bel be like to cal in some bodye , for there was present none in maner , but onelye these before named , and the bishop of Worcester . Now when one was come in , it is beste , quoth maister Secretarye Burne , that you geue the keper a charge of this fellowe . So was the vndermarshall called in . you shall take this man to you , quoth my Lord Chauncelor , & kepe him close , without conference with any man , but by your knowledge , and suffer him not to wryte anye letters . &c. For he is of an other maner of charge vnto you now , then he was before , and so thei departed , the said Bradford lokyng as cherefully as any man coulde doe , declaring thereby , euen a desire to geue his lyfe , for confirmacion of that he hath taughte and written . And surely ( yf he dooe ) so his death wyll destroye more of the Philistines , as Sampson dyd , then euer he dydde in hys lyfe , God almyghtie keepe hym and al his felowes bounde for the lordes sake . Amen .

¶ The effect of the second examinacion of Iohn Bradforde in the temple of S. Marie Oueries , before the lorde Chauncelour and diuers other byshoppes the .xxix. daye of Ianuarii .1555 .

AFter the excommunycacion of Ihon Rogers , Iohn Bradford was called in , & standynge before the lord Chancelour & other bishops set with him : the said lord Chancelor spake thus in effect . That wheretofore the .22 of Ianuarie , they called the sayde Bradford before them & offred vnto hym the Queenes pardon , although he had contenned the same , & further he said that he would stifly & stoutly maintaine & defende therronious doctrine holden in the daies of kyng Edward the .6 . yet in consideracion that the Queenes highnes is wonderfull merciful , they thoughte good eftsones to offer the same , mercy againe before it be to late . Therfore ( ꝙ my lorde Chauncellour ) nowe aduise you well , there is yet space and grace tofore wee so procede , that you be committed to the seculer power , as we muste do , and wil do , if you will not follow th example of M. Barlowe & Cardmaker whom he there commended , adding oratoriously amplificacions , to moue the saide Bradford to yeld to the religion presently set forth . After the lord Chauncellors long talke , Bradford began on this sorte to speake . My Lord ( quoth he ) & my lordes al , as now I stand in your syght before you , so I humbly beseche your honors to consider , that you sit in the sight of the lord : who as Dauid doeth witnesse is in the congregacions of iudges , and fittes in the myddest of them iudgeing . And as you woulde youre place , to bee nowe of vs taken as gods place : so demonstrate your selues , to folowe hym in your sittyng , that is : seke no giltlesse bloude , nor hunte not by questions , to bring into the snare , them whiche are out of the same . At this presente I stande before you , giltie or giltlesse : if giltie , than procede and geue sentence accordinglye , if giltles , then geue me the benefite of a subiect , whiche hitherto I could not haue . Heare the Lorde Chauncellour replyed and saide , that the said Bradford began with a true sentence : Deus stetit in sinagoga . &c. but , ꝙ he , this and all thy gesture , declareth but Hypocrisie , and vain glory . And further he made much a do to purge himself , that he sought no giltles bloud , and so beganne a long processe , howe that Brodfordes facte at Poules crosse , was presumptuous arrogant , and declared a taking vpon him , to lead the people . whiche coulde not , but tourne to much disquietnes , ꝙ he , in that thou , speaking to Bradford , was so prefract and stout in religion , at that present . For the which as thou wast then committed to prison , so hitherto haste thou bene kepte in prison , where thou haste written letters to no litle hurte to the Queenes people , as by the reporte of th erle of Darby in the parlement house , was credeblye reported . And to this be added , that the said Bradford did stubbernly behaue himself , the last time he was before them , and therfore not for any other thynge now I demaund thee of ( ꝙ he ) but of & for thy doctrine & religion . Mi lord ( ꝙ Bradforde ) where you accuse me of hipocrisy & vain glory , I must & wil leaue it to the lordes declaracion , which one daie wil open yours & my trueth : & heartye dealinges . In the meane season I wil content my self , with the testimony of mine own conscience . Which if it yelded to hipocrisy , could not but haue god my foe also , and so both god and man were agaynst me . As for my facte at Poules crosse , and behauior before you at the Towre , I doubt not but god wyll reuele it to my comfort . For if euer I dydde any thynge which god vsed to publyke benefite , I think that , that my dede was one : and yet for it I haue beene & am kept of long time in prison . And as for letters & religion I answer ( ꝙ Bradforde ) as I did the laste tyme I was beefore you . There diddeste thou saye ( ꝙ my Lorde Chauncellour ) that thou wouldst stubbernli & manly maintein therronious doctrine in king Edwardz daies . My lorde ( ꝙ Bradforde ) I said the last time I was before you that I had .6 . times taken an othe , that I should neuer consent to the practising of any Iurisdiccion on the bishop of Rome his behalfe , and therefore durste not aunswere to any thynge shoulde be demaunded so , least I should be forsworn , whiche God forbid . Howe bee it sauyng myne othe , I said that I was more confirmed in the doctrine set forth publike in king Edwardes daies , then euer I was , before I was put in prisone , and so I thought I should be , & think yet styll I shall bee founde more ready to geue my lyfe , as god wil , for the confirmacion of thesame . I remember wel ( ꝙ my lord Chancelour ) that thou madest muche a doe about a nedeles matter , as though the othe against the B. of Rome wer , so great a matter . So others haue done before thee , but yet not in suche sorte as thou hast done . For thou pretendist a conscience in it , whiche is nothinge els but mere hipocrisie . My conscience ꝙ Bradforde , is knowen to the Lorde , and whether I deale here in hipocritally or no , he knoweth . As I saide therfore then my lord , ꝙ he so saye I againe nowe , that for feare lest I should be periured I dare not make answere to any thyng , you shal demaunde of me , yf my aunsweryng should consent , to the practysing of any iurisdiccion for the . B. of Rome , here in England . Why , ꝙ my lord Chancelour , diddest thou not begin to tel , that we ar Dii and sit in gods place , and nowe wilte thou not make vs aunswere ? My lorde , ꝙ Bradforde , I sayde you woulde haue your place taken of vs now , as goddes place , and therefore I brought foorth that pece of scrypture , that ye mighte be the more admonished to folowe God and his wayes at this presente , who seeth vs all , and well perceyueth , whether of conscience I pretende thys matter of the othe or no. No , ꝙ my my lord Chancelor , al men may se thi hipocrisy : for , if for thine othes sake thou doest not aunswere , then wouldest thou not haue spoken as thou didst , & haue aunswered me at the first . But now men may wel perceiue , that this is but a startynge hole to hide thy selfe in , because thou darest not aunswere , and so wouldest escape , blindyng the simple peoples eies , as though of conscience you did all you doe . That whiche I spake at the firste ( ꝙ Bradforde ) was not a replicacyon or an aunswere to that you spake to me , & therfore I nede not to lay for me myne othe : for I thought , perchance you would haue more weyed what I did speak , than you did . But when I perceued you did not considre it , but came to aske matter whereto by answerynge I shoulde consent to the practisinge of iurisdiccion on the B. of Rome hys behalf here in Englande & so bee forsworne : them of conscience & simplicitie I spake as I do yet again speak , that I dare not for conscience sake answere you , and therfore I seke no startinge holes , nor goe about to blind the people , as God knoweth . For if you of youre honor shal tel me , that you doe not aske me any thyng , wherby my answering should consent to the practising to the B. of Romes iurisdiccion aske me wherin you wil , and you shal here , that I will aunswere you as flatly as euer anye did that came before you . I am not afrayde of death I thanke god , for I loke , & haue loked for nothing els at your hands of long time . But I am afraid when death commeth . I should haue mater to trouble my conscience by the giltines of periury , & therefore doe aunswer as I do . These be but gaye glorious woordes , ꝙ my lorde Chauncelour , ful of hypocrisie and vaine glory . And yet doest not thou knowe , ꝙ he speaking to Bradforde , that I sit here as B. of Winchester in mine own dioces , and therefore maye doe this whiche I doe , and more too ? My lord , ꝙ Bradforde , geue me leaue to aske you this question , that my conscience maie bee out of doubte in this matter . Tel me here coram deo before god , all this audyence beyng witnes , that you demaund me nothing , wherby my aunswering should consent to & confirme the practise of iurisdiccion for the B. of Rome here in England : and your honour shall heare me , geue you as flat and as plain answers briefly , to whatsoeuer you shal demaund me : as euer any dyd . Here the lorde Chauncellor was wonderfully offended , and spake much , howe that the B. of Romes aucthoritie , nede no confirmacion of Bradfordes aunsweringe , nor no suche as he was . And turned hys talke to the people , howe that Bradforde followed craftye couetous marchauntes : which , because thei woulde lende no money to theyr neighbors , when thei wer in nede : would say , that they had sworne ofte , they would neuer lende anye more money , because their credytours had so ofte deceiued them . Euen so thou ( ꝙ he to Bradford ) dost at this present , to caste a mist in the peoples eyes , to bleare them with an heresie , which is greatter , and more hurtful to the common welth , pretende thine othe , whereby the people mighte make a conscience where as they shoulde not . Why speakest thou not ? quoth he . My lord ( ꝙ Bradford , as I said I say agayne , I dare not answere you for feare of periury , from whiche God defende me : Or els I could tell you , that there is a difference betwene othes . Some be according to faith and charitie , as the othe against the B. of Rome . Some be against faith and charitie , as this , to denye my help to my brother in his nede . Here again the lord Chancellor was much offended , stil saying , that Bradford durst not answere : and further made muche a do to proue , that the othe to the B. of Rome was against charitie . But Bradford answered , that how so euer hrs honor toke him , yet was he , assured of his meaning , that no feare but the feare of periury made him aferd to aunswere . For as for death my lord ( ꝙ he ) as I knowe ther ar .12 . houres in the day , so with the lord my time is appointed . And when it shal be his good tyme , then shall I departe hence . But in the meane season , ꝙ he , I am safe ynough though al the worlde had sworne my death . Into his handes I haue committed it , his good will be done . And , ꝙ Bradford , sauing mine oth , I wil answer you in this behalf , that the othe against the. B of Rome was not nor is not against charitie . Howe proue you that , ꝙ my lord Chancelor . Forsoth , ꝙ Bradford , I proue it thus : That is not against charitie , whiche is not against gods worde : but this othe against the bishop of Romes aucthoritie in Englande is not against gods worde , therefore it is not against charitie . Is it not against gods woorde , ꝙ my Lorde Chancellour , that a man shoulde take a kyng , to be supreme heade of the church in his realme ? No ꝙ Bradford ( sauing styl mine othe ) it is not against gods worde , but with it , being taken in suche sence as it may be wel taken : that is attributing to the kinges power , that soueraintie in all his dominions . I praye you , ꝙ the lorde Chauncelour , where finde you that ? I finde it in manye places , ꝙ Bradforde , but specially in the .13 . to the Romaines , where Saint Paule writeth : euery soule to be obedient to the superiour power . But what power ? que gladium gestat , the power verely which beareth the sweord , which is not the spiritual but the temporall power : As Chrisostome full well noteth ( ꝙ Bradforde ) vpon the same place , whiche youre honor knoweth better then I. He ( Chrisostome I meane ) ther plainly sheweth , that bishops , prophetes , and apostles owe obedience to the temporall maiestrates . Here yet more the Lorde Chancelour was stered and said , howe that Bradforde went about , to deny al obedience to the Queene , for his oth , & so ( ꝙ he ) this man woulde make , gods woord a warrant of disobedience . For he will aunswere the Queene on this sorte , that when she sayeth nowe sweare to the B. of Rome , or obey his aucthoritye . No , wil he saie , for I am then forsworne , and so make the Queene no Queene . No ( ꝙ Bradforde ) I go not about to deny all obedience to the Queenes highnes , by deniyng obedience in this part , yf shee shoulde demaunde it . For I was sworne to king Edward , not simply : that is , not onely concernyng his owne person , but also concerning his successours . And therefore in denying to do the Quenes request herein , I denye not her authoritie , nor become dishobedient . Yes , that doest thou ( ꝙ my Lorde Chancelor . ) And so he beganne to tell a longe tale , howe if a manne shoulde make an othe to pay a . Cli. by such a day , and the manne to whom it was due , would forgeue the debt . The debter woulde saie , no , you cannot do it , for I am forsworne them . &c. Here Bradford desired my lord Chauncellor , not to trifle it , saying : that he wondred , hys honor would make solemne othes ( made to god ) trifles in that sorte . And make so great a matter concerning vowes as thei cal it , made to the bishop for mariage of priestes . At these wordes the lord Chancelour was much offended , & said he did not trifle , but ( ꝙ he ) thou goest about to denie obedience to the Queene , which now requireth obedience to the B. of Rome . No my lord ( ꝙ Bradford ) I dooe not denye obedience to the Queene , yf you would discerne betwene genus and species . Because I may not obey in this , to reason , ergo I maye not obey in the other , is not firme . As if a man let one sel a pece of his inheritance , yet this notwithstanding al his inheritance is not let or sold . And so in this case , all obedyence I denye not because I denie obedience in this branche . I wil none of those similitudes said the lorde Chancellour . I would not vse them ( ꝙ Bradforde ) if that you wente not about to perswade the people , I meane that which I neuer ment . For I my self , not onely meane obedience , but wil geue ensample ▪ of all most humble obedience to the Queenes highnes , so long as she requireth not obedience agaynste god . No no ( ꝙ my lorde Chauncelour ) al men maie perceiue wel inough your meaning . There is no man , though he bee sworne to the king , doth therfore break his othe , yf afterwardes he be sworne to the Frenche king and to th emperour . It is true my Lorde ( ꝙ Bradforde ) but the cases bee not like . For here is an excepcion : thou shalt not sweare to the B. of Rome at any time . If in like maner we were sworne , thou shalt not serue th emperour &c. you see there were some alteracion and more doubt . But ( ꝙ Bradford ) I beseche your honour , remembre what ye youre selfe haue written , answeringe the obieccions here against , in youre boke de vera obedientia . Vincat modo domini verbi veritas . Let Gods woorde and the reasons thereof beare the bell awaie . Heare the lord Chauncelor was throughlye moued , and saide styll , howe that Bradforde had written sedicious letters , and peruerted the people thereby , and did stoutly stand , as though he would defende the erronious doctrine in kynge Edwardes tyme , against all men , & now ( ꝙ he ) he saieth , he dare not answer . I haue written no sedicious letters ( ꝙ Bradforde ) I haue not peruerted the people . But that which I haue written & spoken , that wil I neuer deny by gods grace . And wher your L. saith , I dare not answer you : that al men may know I am not afraid , sauing mine oth , ask me what you wyl , & I will plainelye make you answer by gods grace : although I now see my lyfe lyeth theron . But O lord ( ꝙ he ) into thy hands I commit it , come what come will : onelye sanctifie thy name in me , as in one instrumente of thy grace . Amen . Now aske what you wil ( ꝙ Bradford ) & you shall se I am not afraid by gods grace , flatly to answer . Well then ( ꝙ my lord Chauncelour ) how say you to the blessed sacrament ? do you not beleue , there Christe to bee presente concernynge his naturall bodye ? My lorde ( ꝙ Bradforde ) I doe beleue Christ to be corporally present , in his sacrament duely vsed . Corporally I say , that is , in such sorte as he woulde , I meane Christe is there corporally present vnto faith . Vnto faith ( ꝙ my lorde Chaunceloure ) wee muste haue manye moe words to make it more plain . you shal so ( ꝙ Bradford ) but first geue me leaue to speake twoo wordes . Speake on , quoth my lord Chancellour . I haue bene now a yeare and almoste thre quarters in prysone ( ꝙ Bradforde ) and of all thys tyme , you neuer questyoned wyth me heare aboutes , when I myghte haue spoken my conscyence frankely , wythout peryll . But nowe you haue a law to hang vp and put to death , if a man answer , freely and not to your appetite . And so you nowe come to demaund this question . Ah my lord ( ꝙ Bradforde ) Christe vsed not th●s waye to bring men to faythe . No more did the Prophets or the Apostles . Rembeēr what Barnarde writeth to Eugenius the Pope : Apostolos lego stetisse iudicandos , sedisse iudicantes non legi . Hoc erit illud fuit ▪ &c. Here the Chancelor was appeased as it semed , & spake moste gentlye , that he vsed not this meanes . It was not my doyng , although some there be ) ꝙ he ) that thinke this to be the beste waie . I for my parte ( ꝙ he ) haue bene chalenged for being to gentle often times . The which thing the B. of London confirmed , & so did almoste all the audience , that he hadde been euer to mylde and to gentle . At whiche wordes Bradforde spake thus : My Lorde , ꝙ he , I praye you stretche out your gentlenes , that I maye fele it , for hytherto I neuer felte it . As sone as be hadde spoken thus , the lord Chauncellour ( belyke thynkynge Bradforde woulde haue hadde mercye and pardone , as Cardmaker and Barlow hadde ) sayd , that wyth all hys hearte not onely he , but the Queenes highnesse woulde stretche oute mercye , yf wyth them hee woulde retourne . Retourne my Lord , quoth Bradforde , God saue me from that goyng backe . I meane it not so : But I meane , quoth he , that I was three quarters of a yere in the Tower , wythout paper penne or inke , & neuer in al that time nor sithen , did I fele any gentlenes from you . I haue rather loked for , as I haue hitherto founde , extremitie . And ( ꝙ he ) I thank God , I perceue now , you haue kept me in prison thus long , not for any matter you had , but for mater you would haue . Goddes good wil bee done . Here was now , diuerse , telling my lorde it was diner time , and so he rose vp , leauing Bradforde speaking , & saying , that in the after noone thei would speak more with him . And so was he had into the vestry , & was there al that daye tyll darke nighte , and so was conueyed agayne to prisone : declaringe by his countenance great ioy in god : the whiche God increase in him .

¶ The effect and summe of the last examinacion of that faithfull instrument of God Iohn Bradforde in the Churche of Saincte Marie Oueries the 29. daie of Ianuarii .1555 .

AFter the excommunicacion of Laurence Saunders , Iohn Bradford was called in , and being broughte before the Lorde Chauncelour and other bishops there sittinge : the Lorde Chancelour began to speak thus in effecte , that Bradforde beynge now eftsones com before them , wold aunswere with modestie and humylitye , and conforme hymselfe to the Catholyke Churche wyth theym . And so yet myghte he find mercy , because thei would be loth to vse extremite . Therfore he concluded with an exhortacion , that Bradforde woulde recante his doctrine . After the lorde Chancellor had ended his longe oracion , Bradforde began to speak thus . As yesterday I besought your honour , to set in your sighte the maiestie and presence of God , to follow him which seketh not to subuert the simple by subtil questions : so , quoth he , I humblye beseche euery one of you to daie , for that you knowe that giltles bloud wil crie vengeaunce . And thus , quoth he , I praie not your Lordship to do , as one that taketh vpon me , to condemne you vtterly herin , but that you might bee the more admonyshed to doe , that which none doth , so much as he should do . For our nature is so much corrupt that we are very obliuious and forgetfull of god . Again , ꝙ Bradford , as yesterdaie I pretended my othe and othes againste the B. of Rome , that I should neuer consent to the practising of any iurisdiccion for him , or in his behalfe in the realme of Englande : so againe this day lest I should be periured . And last of al , as yesterday the answer I made was by protestacion and sauynge my oth : so would I your honours should knowe , that myne shal be this daie . And this I do that when death , whiche I loke for at youre handes , shall come : I shall not be troubled with the giltines of periury . At these words the lord Chancelor was wroth , & said that they had geuen him respite to deliberate vntil this day , whether he would recant the heresies of the blessed sacrament , whiche yesterday ( ꝙ the lord Chancelor , before vs you vttred . My lord ( ꝙ Bradforde ) you gaue me no time of any such delyberacion , neither did I any thing of the sacrament , which you didde disalow . For when I had declared a presence of Christ to bee there to the faithful : you went from the matter to purge your selfe that you were not crewel , and so went to dinner . What , I perceiue ( ꝙ my lord Chancelour ) we must begin all agayne with thee : d●d I not yesterday tell thee plainely , that thou madest a conscience where none should be ? Did I not make it plaine that the othe against the Bishop of Rome was an vnlawfull othe ?

No ( ꝙ Bradford ) In dede my lord you said so , ꝙ he , but proued is not nor neuer can do . Oh lord god ( ꝙ the lorde Chauncelour ) what a felowe arte thou ? Thou wouldeste goe about to bringe into the peoples heades , that we , al the lords of the parliament house , the knights , Burgiesses , and all the whole , is periured . Oh what an heresye is thys ? Here good people ye may see what a Churlishe hereticke thys felowe is . If I shoulde make an othe , I would neuer helpe my brother , or lende hym money in hys nede , were this a good aunswere to tell my neyghboure , desyringe my helpe that I hadde made an othe to the contrarye , I coulde not dooe it ? Heare the lorde Chauncelor made muche a do , & a long time was spent about othes , which wer good & which wer euil , he capciously asking of Bradford often answer of things concerning othes , which Bradford would not geue simply , but with distinccion , wherat the lord Chancelour was sore offended . But Bradford styll kept him at the baye : that the oth againste the B. of Rome , was an vnlawfull othe , vsing therto , the Chancelors owne boke de Vera obedientia ▪ For confirmacion : at the length thei came to this issue , who should iudge of the lawfulnes of of the othes . And Bradford said , the worde of God , accordynge to Christes owne woordes . Iohn .12 . saying : My word shal iudge . And according to the testimonie of Esai .2 . & Micheas .4 . That goddes word coming out of Ierusalem shal geue sentence amongst the gentiles . By these wordes my lord ꝙ he , I will proue the othe against the B. of Romes auctorite , to be a good , a godli , & a lawful oth . So therof the lord Chauncelor left his hold , saying that as the other day he pretended denyal of the Queenes aucthoritie & obedience to her highnesse : so did he now . But Bradford , as the day before proued , that obedience in this point are particuler to the Quenes highnes . If she shold demaunde an othe to the . B. of Rome beinge denied , it was a generall deniall of her aucthoritie and obedience to her , no more ( quoth he ) then the gift or lease of a sole pece of a mans inheritance proueth , a sale , gift , or lease of the whole inheritance . And thus muche a doe was made about the matter . The lord Chancelor talking muche , & vsing many examples of dette , of going out of the towne to morow by othe , yet tarying tyll Fridaye & suche like , whiche triflinge talke Bradford did touche , saying , that it was a wonder , that his honour did wey conscience no more in this , and would be so earnest in vowes for mariage of Priestes , made to bishops , and bee carelesse for Solemne othes made to God and the prince . Summa this was the ende , the lorde Chauncelour sayde , the Queene might dispence with it : & did it to al the whole realme . But Bradford said , the Queenes highnes , could do no more but remitte her right . And as for the oth made to God , she coulde neuer remytte . For as muche as it was made to God . At which woordes the lord Chancelour chafed wonderfully , and said that in plaine sentence he slandered the hole realme of periury : and therfore ( ꝙ he ) to the people , you may se how this felow taketh vppon hym , to haue more knowledge & conscience , then al the wise men of England , & yet ( ꝙ he ) he hath no conscience at al. Wel ( ꝙ Bradforde ) my lord let al the standers by see , who hath conscyence . I haue bene a yere & a half in pryson , now before all this people declare , wherfore I was prisoned , or what cause you had to punish me ▪ you sayde the other daye in youre owne house , my Lord of London witnessing with you , that I toke vppon me to speake to the people vndesyred . There he sytteth by your Lordship , I meane my lord Bishop of Bath , which desired me himself , for the passion of Christ I wold speake to the people , vpon whose wordes I commyng in to the pulpit : had like to haue bene slaine with a naked dagger , which was hurled at me , I thinke , for it touched my sleaue . He eftsones praied me , I woulde not leaue him , & I promised , as long as I liued , I would take hurt the day before him , and so went out of the pulpit , & at length broughte him safe to a house . Besides this : in the after noone I prech at Bow church , & goyng vp into the pulpitte , one wylled me not to reꝓue the people for the fact ( for ꝙ he ) you shal neuer come downe aliue if you do it . And yet ( ꝙ Bradford ) notwithstanding , I did in the Sermond , reproue their fact , & called it sedicion , at the least .xx. tymes . For all whiche my doinge , I haue receiued this recompence , prison a yere & a half & more , & death , now which you go about . Let al men ( ꝙ Bradford ) nowe iudge , wher conscience is . In speking these words : ther was the endeuored to haue letted it , but Bradford spake on , & let them speake what they would . And the lord Chancelour said , that for al his faire talke his fact at the Crosse was naught . No ( ꝙ Bradford ) my fact was good , as you youre selfe did bear witnes with me . For when I was first before you in the Towre you your selfe did saye that the facte was good , but , ꝙ you , the mynde was euyll , wel then ꝙ I , my lord , in that you alowe my facte & condemne my mynde in it , I can not otherwise declare my mynd to man them by saying & doing , god , I trust , one day will open to my comforte what my mynde was , and what yours is . Here the lord Chauncelour was offended & saide , that he neuer said so , I ( ꝙ hee ) had not so litle wit , I trow , as not to discerne betwixt meaning & doyng , and so brought forth , litle to the purpose , many examples , that men construe thynges , not by the meanynge of man , but by their doings . But when this coulde not serue : then cometh he to another matter , and said , he was put in prison at the first , because he woulde not yelde , nor bee confirmable to the Queenes religion . Why ( quoth Bradford ) your honour knoweth , that you would not then reason with me in religion , but you saide a time should afterward be found out , when I should be talked with al. But ( ꝙ Bradford ) if it were as your lordship saith , that I was put in for religion , in that my religion was then auctorised by the publike lawes of the realm , could conscience punish me or cast me into prison th●rfore ? Wherfore let al men iudge in whom conscience wanteth . Here commeth forth M. Chamberlain of Woodstocke , & said to the Lord Chancelor , that Bradforde had bene a seruing man , & was with M. Harington . True ( ꝙ the lord Chancelour ) & did deceiue his M. of .27 poundes , & because of this , he went to bee a gospeller , and a preacher ( good people ) and yet you se how he pretendeth conscience . My lord , ꝙ Bradford , I set my fote to his fote whosoeuer he be , that can come furth , & iustly vouch to mi face that euer I deceiued my M. And as you ar chief iustices by office , in England , I desire iustice vpon them that so slander me , because they cannot proue it . Here my lord Chauncelour & M. Chamberlain wer stroke blanke , & said thei heard it , but , ꝙ the lord Chauncellour , you haue an other maner of matter then this , for you are an heretike . yea , quoth the B. of London , he did write letters to . M Pendleton ▪ whiche knoweth his hand as wel as his own ▪ your honor , quoth the bishop to the lorde Chancelour , did se them . That is not true , quoth Bradforde , I dyd neuer write to Pendleton sithe I came into prisone , therefore I am not iustlye spoken of . yea but you indited it , quoth the B. of London . I did not , quoth Bradforde , nor know not what you meane , & that I offer to proue . Here commeth a nother , I trowe thei call him M. Allin one of the Clarks of the counsell , putting my lord in rememberance , of letters sent into Lanke●shire . It is true , quoth the Lorde Chancelor vnto him , for we haue his hand to shew . I denie the quoth Bradford , that you haue my hande to shewe , of letters sent into Lankeshire , otherwise , then before you all I will stande vp and proue them to be good and lawfull . Here was al answered , & therefore the lorde Chancelour began a new matter . Sir , quoth he , in my house the other day , you did moste contempteously contempne the Queenes mercy , & further said , you woulde maynteine the erronious doctrine in king Edwardes daies , against al men , & this you did most stoutly . Well ( quoth Bradforde ) I am glad that al men see , you had no matter to imprison me afore that daie , iustlye : nowe saye I , that I did not contētuously contemne the Queenes mercy , but wolud haue had it with gods mercy , that is , without saying and doynge anye thing , against god and his truth ▪ And as for maintenaunce of doctrine ( because I cannot tel how you wil stretche this woorde maintenance ) I will repete again that which I spake . I said I was more confirmed in the religion set foorth in king Edwardes dayes , then euer I was , & if god so would , I trust I should declare it , by geuing my life for the confirmacion and testificacion therof . So I saide then , & so I say again now , ꝙ Bradford . As for otherwise to mainteine it , then pertayneth to a priuate person : by confession ( I thought not nor thinke . Well ( ꝙ the lord Chancelor ) yesterday thou diddest mayntain false heresy , concernyng the blessed sacrament , & therfore we gaue the respite til this day , to deliberate . My lord ( ꝙ Bradford ) as I sayde at the first , I spake nothinge of the Sacrament , but that which you allowed , & therfore reꝓued it not , nor gaue me no time to deliberate . Why ( ꝙ he ) diddest thou not denye Christs presence in the sacrament ? No ( ꝙ Bradford ) I neuer denyed nor taught , but that to the fayth , whole Christs body & bloud was as presente , as breade & wyne to the dewe receyuer . yea , but doest thou not beleue that Christes bodye naturallye and reallye is vnder the forme of bread and wyne ? My Lord ( ꝙ Bradforde ) I beleue Christ is present there , to faith of the dewe receyuer , as for transubstanciacion , I plainely and flatlye tell you I beleue it not . Here was Bradford called a deuil or sclanderer for we axe no question , ꝙ the lord Chancelor , of transubstanciacion , but of Christs bodily presence . Why quoth Bradford , I denye not hys presence to the faith of the receuer , but denye that he is included in the bred , or that the bred is transubstanciated , If he be not included ꝙ the B. of Worcester , how is he then present ? Forsothe ( quoth Bradford ) my faith knoweth howe , though my tong cannot expresse it , nor you otherwise than by faith heare it or vnderstand it . Heare was much a doe now , one Docter starting vp & speking this , another that , & the lord Chancelor talking muche , of Luther , zwinglius , & Oecolampadius . But stil Bradford kept them at this point , that Christ is present to faith and that there is no transubstanciacion nor including of Christ in the bread , but al this would not serue them . Therfore an other bishop asked this question , whether the wycked man receiued Christes verye bodie or no ? & Bradford answered plainly , no. Where the lord Chancelor made a long oracion , howe that it could not be that Christe was present , excepte that the euill man receiue him . But Bradford put his oracion away in few woordes : that grace was at the present offred vnto his lordship , although he receiued it not . So that , ꝙ he , that receyuing maketh not the presens as youre lordship would affirme , but gods grace , trueth , & power , is the cause of the presence , the which the wicked that lacketh faith cannot receue . And here Bradforde prayed hym not to deuorce that , whiche God hathe coupled together , he hathe coupled al this together : take eate this is my bodye , he saieth not see pepe , this is my bodye , but take eate . Here the lorde Chancelour & the reste of the Bishoppes made a great a do , that Bradforde hadde founde out a toy , that no man els euer did , of the condicions , & the lord Chancelor made many words to the people , here aboute . But Bradford said this , My lord ꝙ he , are not these woordes take eate , a commaundement ? and are not these woordes , this is my bodye a promyse ? If you wil challenge the ꝓmise , & do not the commandement , may you not deceue your self ? Here the lord Chancelor denied Christe to haue commanded any thing in the sacrament , or the vse of it . Why , ꝙ Bradford my lord I pray you tel the people , what mode accipite manducate is , it is plain to children that Christ in so saying commandeth . At these wordes , the lorde Chauncellor made a great toying & trifling at the imperatiue mode , & fel to proposing or examining as though he shuld teach a child , & so concluded that it was no commandement , but such a phrase as this , I praye you geue me drink which is no commandement I trow . But Bradford prayd him to leaue toying & trifling and said thus : my lord , ꝙ he , if it be not a commandement of Christ to take & to eate the sacrament , why do any take vpon them to commaund & make of necessity , that which god leueth free ? as you do in making it a necessary commandement , that once a yere for al that be of lawful discrecion to receiue the sacrament . Here the lord Chancelour calleth him againe Diabolus or slaunderer , & so began out of these woordes , Cori. 10. let a man proue himself & so eate of the bread ( the bred ꝙ Bradford ? ) and drink of the cup , that was no commandement , for then , ꝙ he , if it wer a commandement , it should bynde al men in al places , & at al tymes . O my lord , quoth Bradford , discerne betwene commandementes , some be generall that thei binde alwaies in all places and all persones , some be not so generall as this is of the supper : The sacramente of Baptism : of the appearing before the lord at Ierusalem : Abrahams offring Isaac . Here the lord Chancelor said , what say you that Baptisme is commanded : them , quoth he , we shal haue .xi. commandementes . In dede , quoth Bradford , I think you thinke as you speake , for els you would not take the cup from the people , seyng that Christe sayeth , drink of it al. But howe saye you my lord quoth , Bradford , Christe sayth to you bishops specially , ite predicate euangelium , goe & preache the gospel , fede Christes flocke , is this a commandement or not . Here was the lord Chancelor in a great chafe & said as pleased him . Another I wene the B. of Durham , asked him when Christ began to bee present in the sacrament , whether before the receyuer receiued it or no ? Bradforde answered that the question was curious , & not necessary , & further said as the said cup was the new testament , so the bred was Christs body : to him that receiueth it duely . But yet so the bred is bred , for in al the scripture ye shal not find this proposicion , non est panis ther is no bred , & so he brought forth s . Chrisostom , Si in corpore essemus Summa much a do was here about , thei calling Bradford heretike : & he desired them to procede a gods name , he loked for that whiche god appointed them to do . Loe ( ꝙ the lord Chancelor ) this felowe is now in a nother heresy of fatal desteny , as though all thynges wer so tyed together , that of mere necessitie al thinges must come to passe . But Bradford praide him to take things as they were spoken , & not wreste them into a contrary sence . your lordshippe ( quoth hee ) doth discerne betwixt god and manne , things are not by fortune to god at any time , thoughe to man they seme so some times . I ( ꝙ Bradforde ) spake but as the Apostles spake lord ( ꝙ he ) see howe Herode & Poncius Pilate with the Prelates , ar gathered together against thee Christ , to do the , which thy hande & counsell hath before ordained them to do . Here began the lord Chancelor , to read the excommunicacion & in the excommunicacion when he came to the name of Bradford , laicus , lay man . Why ( ꝙ he ) ar you no priest ? No ( ꝙ Bradford ) nor neuer was , eyther priest , eyther beneficed , either maried , either any precher , afore publike auctoritie had established religion , but preached after publike auctoritie had established religion , & yet ( ꝙ he ) I am thus handled at your handes , but god I doubt not will geue his blessing where you curse . & so he fel doun on his knees & hartely thanked god , that he counted him worthy to suffer for his sake , & so praide god to geue them repentance & a good mind . After the excommunicacion was red , he was deliuered to the sheriffes of London , and so had to the clinke , from thence to the counter in the pultry , where he remaineth close , without al company , bokes , paper , penne or ynke , loking for the dissolucion of his bodye , in the which god grant to hym hys sweete mercye : throughe Christe oure Lorde . Amen .

The some of the priuate talke had with maister Io. Bradford sithen the .29 daie of . Ianuarie , by suche as the Prelats haue sent vnto him .

AFter my firste arraygnement in the churche of Saincte Marie Oueris the .29 . daye of Ianuarie , aboute ▪ foure of the clocke in the euenynge , there came into the reuestrye whither I was had after my arraigmente , and taried there al daye : a gentleman called Maister Thomas Hussey of Linclonshiere , whiche was ones an officer in the Duke of Norfolkes house to inquire for one Stoning , and when it was aunswered hym by the vnder Marshalles officers of the kinges benche , which were there with Doctour Taylour and me , that there was none suche : he came forthwith into the house , & toke acquaintaunce of me , sainge further that he woulde come and speake with me in the morninge for old acquaintance sake , for I was at muttrel iorney a pay master , in whiche he was and had often receiued money at my handes . Now in the morninge about vii . of the cloke he came into the chamber , wher in I laye , and beinge alone with me , and set downe , he began a longe talke , howe that of loue & olde acquayntance he came vnto me to speake vnto me , that which he would further vtter , the effecte wherof was that I did so wonderfully ( quod he ) behaue my selfe before the lorde Chauncelour & the other Bishoppes the other daye , that euen the verieste enemies I had did see , howe that they had no matter againste me : therefore aduised me , as thoughe it came of his own good wil without making anye other man priuie or aanye other procuringe hym , as he said , that I would this daye ( for quoth he anone you shall be called before them again ) desire therfore tyme & men to conferre with al. By reason wherof he thought that al men would thinke a wonderfull wysedome , grauitie and goodnes in me : & by this meane I shuld escape the daunger whiche is nearer than you be ware of ꝙ he . But I aunswered breiflie & said , that I coulde not , nor woulde not make any such requeste , for then ( quod I ) occasion should I giue to the people and to all other that I stode in doubting of the doctrine , the which thing I told hym I did not , but thereof was moste assured , and therefore I would giue no such offence . As we were thus talkinge , the Chamber dore was vnloked for and who should come in at the dore , but one doctour Seyton , when he saw maister Hussey : what syr quoth he , are you come before me ? yea thought I , goeth the matter thus ? and he tolde me no man knew of hys comming . Wel Lord quoth I to my selfe , giue me grace to remember thy lesson , Cauere ab hominibus istis , beware of those men , Mat. 10 Mat. 7. &c. cast not your pearles before doges , for I see these men become to hunte the matter that the one maye beare witnesse with the other . This doctor Seyton , after some bye talke of my age , of my Countrie , and such like , he began a long sermon of my lord of Canterburye , maister Latymer , & maister Redley , and howe at Oxford they where not able to aunswere any thinge at al , and therfore : my lord of Caunterburye desired to conferre wyth the Byshoppe of Duresme and others . All whiche talke tended to this ende , that I should make the like sute beinge in nothinge to be compared in learninge to my Lorde of Caunterburye , whiche thinge is moste true . But I breiflye aunsuered as before I did to maister Hussey , wherwith they were neither of them both contented : and therefore they vsed many persuasions , and Maister doctor said , how that he had herd muche good talke of me , tellinge how that yesternight maister Runcorne had made reporte of me , at my lorde Chauncelours table at supper , howe that I was able to persuade as much as any that he knewe . And I my selfe quoth he , though I neuer herd you preache nor to my knowledge neuer sawe you before yesterdaie : yet my thought your modestie was such , your behauour and talke so without malice and impacientye , that I wolde be sorye you should doo woursse then my selfe , and I tell you quoth he further , I doo perceaue that my Lorde Chauncelor hath a fauour toward you : wherfore be not obstinate but desire respite and sew to some lerned men , to confer with all , but still I kepe me to my Cokoo I coulde not , nor wold not so offend gods people : I stode in no wauering , but was moste certeyne of the doctrine I had taught . Here master Doctor waxed hote and called me arrogaunte , prowde , vayne glorious , and spake like a Prelate , hauing no other aunswere of me but that he should beware of iudging , Mat. ● Mat ● lest he condempned him selfe . Howbeit this would not serue but still he vrged me showing howe merciful my Lorde Chauncellor was , and how charitablye they intertained me : Vnto which wordes I briefly showed him , that I neuer found anye iustice , muche lesse charitie . I speake it for my parte ( quoth he ) in my Lord Chauncellor . And so showed howe I hade ben in Prison howe I had ben handled and howe they had no matter now aageinst me but such as they shold haue by myn own confession . But nothing of this talke moued maister doctor : who went from matter to matter , from this poynt to that poynte : and I gaue hym stil the hearnige and aunswered not bycause he came to haue had somthing whereby my Lord Chauncellor mighte haue had semed to haue kepte me in prison not causeles . When al their talke toke no such effecte as they wold & loked for , maister Hussey began to aske me whether I would not admyte conference , if my lord Chauncelor shoulde offre it me publicklye : to whom I aunswered this in effect , that conference , if it had ben offred before the lawe had bene made , or conference if it were offred , so that I might be at libertie to conferre , and as free as he with whome I should conferre : then quoth I , it were some thing , but els I see not to what purpose conference should be offered , but to deferre that whiche will come at the length , and the lyngering may giue more offence then do good . Hhowbeit quoth I , if my Lord should make suche an offre of his owne ▪ voluntarines : I will not refuse to conferre withe whome so euer shall come . Maister doctor hearing this , called me arrogant still , proud , and what so euer pleased hym , so that I besought them both ( because I perceaued by them I should shortely be called for ) to gyue me leaue to talke with God , & to begge wisedome and grace of hym , for quoth I otherwise I am helpelesse . And so they with muche a doo departed . And I went to god and made my pore praier acordingly , which of his goodnes he did graciouslie accepte and did helpe me in my neade , praysed therfore be his holyename .

Shortely after they were gone , I was had to saint Marie oueris and there taried vncalled for , till xi . of the clocke that is : till Maister Saunders was excommunicated .

Vpon the .3 . of Februarie , the Byshoppe of London came to the Counter in the pultrie to disgrad Maister Doctor Taylor , about one of the clocke at after noone , but before he spake to Maister , Tailour : I was called forth vnto him : when he sawe me , of went hys cappe , & out stretched he his hande , and on this sort he spake to me , that bycause he perceaued I was desyrous to conferre withe some lerned man , therfore he had broughte maister Archedeacone Harpsfeld to me , and quoth he , I tell you , you doo like a wise man , but I praye you goe roundlye to worke , for the tyme is but short : my Lorde , quoth I , as roundelyl as I can I wyll go to woorke with you , I neuer desired to conferre with anye man nor yet doo , howbeit if you will haue anye to talke with me I am redy to heare and aunswere hym . What quoth my Lord of London in a fume to the keper : did not you tell me that this man desired conference ? No my Lorde quoth he . I tolde you that he wold not refuse to conferre with any , but I did not shewe to anye that it was his desire . well quoth my Lord of London , maister Bradforde you are welbeloued , I pray you consider your self and refuse not charitie when it is offered . In dede my Lord quoth I , this is finale charitte , to condemne a man , as you haue condempned me , whiche neuer brake the lawes , In Turckie a man may haue tought free , but in England I cold not fynd it , for I am condempned for my faith so sone as I vttered it at your requeste , before I had committed any thing againste the lawes . As for conference , I am not afrayed ( quoth I ) to talke with whome you will , but to saye that I desire to conferre : that do I not . Well well quoth my Lorde of London , and so called for maister Taylor , and I went my waye .

Vpon the 4. of Februarie came one of my lord Chauncellors gentlemen , sent as he said from my lord as then being come from the court . Thys was about .8 . of the clocke the eueninge . The effecte & ende of his talke & message was , that my Lorde his maister did loue me well , and therefore he offered me tyme to conferre if I woulde desire it , but as I had aunswered others in this matter , so I aunswered him , that I wold neuer make that sute , but quoth I , to conferre with any , I will neuer refuse : bycause I am certaine and able I thancke god , to defend by godlye learning , my faith . Thus with much a doo we shoke hands , and departed , he to his maister , and I to my pryson .

Vpon the 7. of Februarie came one maister Wollerton a Chapplaine to the Bishoppe of London to conferre with me : Who , when he perceaued that I desired not his comming , beinge as one most certain of my doctrine . And therfore wished rather his departing than abiding : well maister Bradford quoth he , yet I pray you let vs conferre a litle , perchance you may do me good , if I can dooe you none . Vpon whiche wordes I was content to talke . He spake muche of the doctors and fathers , of the bread in the .6 . chapiter of Iohn . And so wolde proue transubstantiation : & howe that wicked men do receiue Christs bodie . And I on the contrarie parte improued his aucthours , with much by talke betwixte vs bothe , and the keper , who toke his parte litle to the purpose . Summa to this issue we came , that he should draw out of the scriptures and doctours , his reasons . And I wold peruse them , and if I could not aunswere them , I would giue place . And so I desired him to do my reasons , which I woulde make , and so departed for that daye .

The next day following in the morning , he sent me halfe a shete of paper written on bothe sides , with no resons how he gathered his doctrine , but onlye the bare sentence : Panis quem ego dabo : The bread whiche I wil giue is my fleshe . And the places in the 26. of Matth. 14. of Marke .22 . of Luke , & the .10 . and .11 . to the Corinth . with some sentences of the doctors , all which made as much against him , as with hym al only one of Theophilactus except in the after nowne he came himself , and then we had a longe bablynge to none effecte , and at the lenght he came to the church , and how that I shwarued from the churche . Na ▪ quoth I , that doo I not , but you do , for the church is Christs spouse and Christes obedient spouse , as ▪ your church is not , which robbeth the people of the Lordes Cuppe , & of seruice in the English tonge . Why quoth he , it is not profitable to haue the seruice in Englishe , and so he brought forth this sentence to proue it . Labia Sacerdotis custodiant , legem . The lipes of the priestes should kepe the law , and out of his mouth men must loke for knowledge . Why quoth I should not the people then haue the scriptures : wherfore serueth this of Christe , searche the scriptures . Ioh. 5. This quoth he was not spoken to the people , but to the Scribes , & learned men : wel quoth I , then the people must not haue the scriptures , whiche he affirmed bringinge fourth this . E● erunt docti a deo , They shal be all taught of God . But must we , quoth I , lerne all at the priestes ? yea quoth he , well then said I , I see you would bringe the people to hange vppe Christ and let Barrabas goo , Luk. 23 as the priestes then did perswade the people . A which wordes he was so offended : that he had no luste to talke any more . Summa I gaue hym the reasons . I had gathered against transubstantiacion , and prayed hym to frame his in the frame of reasons , and I woulde aunswere them , well quoth he , I wil do so , but first I wil answere yours . The whiche thing he hath not done hitherto , nor wil not : for I heare that he is ridden into the Country .

Vpon the .12 . of Februarye there came one of the Erle of Darby his men called Stephen Beiche , one of olde acquentaunce to me : who showed me , that my lord sent him to me , and willed me to tender my selfe , & he would be good lord vnto me . When I aunswered , that I thancked his lordshipppe for his good will towardes me , but quoth I , in this case I cane not tender my selfe more then gods honour : then he set before me , my mother , my sisters , frends , kyndsfolkes , & Country , what a greate discomforte it wolde be vnto them , to dye as an Heretike , well syr , quoth I , I haue learned to forsake father , mother , brother , sisters , frends , and all that euer I haue , & mine owne selfe : or els I can not be Christes disciple . And so he tellinge me , that my death would doo much hurte , and such lyke talke : we shoke handes . Howbeit , nowe I remember that in oure talke he asked me , if my lord should obtaine for me , that I might departe the Realme : whether I would not be content to be at the Quenes appointment , wher she woulde appointe me beyond the sea ? No quoth I. I had rather be burned in Englande , then be burned beyond the sea . For I know quoth I , that if she should sende me to Paris , to louen &c. fourthe with they would burne me .

Vpon the .14 . of Februarie their came to me Perciuall Cressewell one of my olde acquentaunce , and one that loueth my bodie well and my soule also , after his religion , bringing with hym , & as I learne a kynsman of maister Feckenham : who after much ado praied me , that he might make labour for me , a gods name , quod I , doo , you may do what you wil , yea , but , quoth he . Tell me what suet I should make . Forsoth said I , that that you wil doo , do it not at my requeste , for I desire nothyng at your handes : if the Queene wil giue me life , I will thanke her , i● she will banishe me . I will thancke her , yf she will condempne me t● perpetuall prisonmente : I wy● thancke her , if she wil burne me I will thancke her . Here vpo● he wente awaye . And about a .xi. of the clocke . He and the other man came agayne , and brought a boke of Maister Mores makynge to rede ouer , the whiche boke I toke . But , quoth I , good Perceiuall . I am to sure setteled , for beinge moued in thes matters . Oh , quoth he , if euer you loued me , do one thinge for me ▪ what is that , quoth I , at the lenght , for I woulde not promes , sayth he to desire and name what lerned men or man you will haue to come vnto you , my Lord of yorke , my Lorde of Lyncolne , my Lorde of Bathe , my Lorde of of Chichester . &c. wil gladly come to you : No , quoth I , neuer wil I desire them , or any others , to come to conferre with me , for I am as certein of my doctrine , as I am of anye thing : But for your pleasure ( quoth I ) and that all men maye knowe I am not ashamed to haue my faith sifted and tried , bringe whome you will , & I will talke with them . So they went theyr waye . And about .3 . of the clocke in the after nowne , commeth maister doctor Hardinge the Byshoppe of Lincolnes Chaplaine , and after a greate and solempne protestation , ( when he knew I desired not his comming ) , how that he had prayed to God , before he came forth to turne his talke to to my good : he began to tell of the good opinion he had of me , and many God giue you good euen , so that our talke was to none effecte or purpose : saue that I prayed hym , to consider from whence he was fallen , and not to followe the world or loue it , bycause the loue of God is not where it is , 1. Io. Summa he counted me in a dampnable state : as one being out of the churche . And therfore wylled me to take hede to myselfe , & not to dye in suche an opinion . what maister Hardinge ( quoth I ) I haue heard you with these eares , maintayne this that I stode in . I haue ( quoth he ) preached that the doctrine of transubstantiation was a subtill doctrine , but otherwise I neuer taught it . And so enuyinge against marieges of priestes , and muche againste Peter Marter , Martyn Bucer , & Luther , which for breakinge their vowes , were iustly giuen vp into heresies quod he . I seing hym all togyther giuen vp into poperie , after admonishement hereof , bad hym farewell .

Vppon the .15 . of Februarie about .4 . of the clocke in the after nowne , cometh Percyuall Cressewell , and the other man waytyng vpon maister Harpsfeld ▪ Archedeacon of London , who after gentle salutation , and many formalities beganne a longe oracion . Howe that all men , euen the Infideles , Turckes , Iewes , Anabaptistes , and Libertines , desire felicitie , as well as the christians . And howe that euerye man thyncketh they shal attaine to it , by their religion . To the whiche longe oracion I aunswerred briefly : that he spake not farre a mise . Then goeth he on , yea , but the waye , quoth he , thither is not all a like . And so he set furth , how infideles by Iupiter , Iuno , The Mahumet by his Alcoran , the Iewe by his Thalmud : beleued to come to Heauen . For so manye I spake sayth he : as beleue the immortalitie of the soule . And this long oracion , I as brieflie aunswered : and saide he had spoken truelye . Well then , quoth he , here is the matter ▪ the waye to this heauen . we maye not inuente anye newe waye . Their is but one waye , quoth I , and that is Iesus Christe , as he hymselfe doth witnesse : I am the waye , here Maister Harpsfeld affirmed and denyed , and further sayde , that I ment by Christe , beleuing in Christe , I haue lerned , quoth I , to discerne betwixte Faythe and Chryste . Albeit I confesse that who so euer beleuethe in Christe the same shal be saued . No , quoth he , not all that beleue in Christ , for some wyll saye , lord Lorde , haue not we caste oute deuilles & c ? But Christe will say in the daye of iudgement to those departe from me , I knowe you not . yea syr , quoth I , you muste make a difference , betwixte beleuing & saying . I beleue , as for example , if one should say and swere he loued you : for all his saying you wil not beleue him , when you see he goeth aboute to vtter , and doo all euyll thinges againste you . wel quoth he , this is not muche materiall . Theire is but one waye Christe . How come we to know him , where shal we seke to finde him ? Forsoth quoth I , we must seke hym by his word , and in his word , & after his word . Verye good quoth maister Harpsfeld . But tell me now , howe first we come into the companie of them that could tell vs this , but by Baptisme . True , quoth I , baptisme is the sacrament , by the whiche exteriorlye we are insert and engraf●e into Christe , for I dare not , quoth I , exclude oute of Christe , al that dye without baptisme , I wil not tye God where he is not bound . Some infants dye : whose parents desire baptisme for them , and maye not haue it . To those , quoth he , we maye thincke perchaunce some mercie God will shew . yea , quoth I. those infants whose parentes doo contempne baptisme , wil not I contempne vtterlye , because the childe shall not beare the fathers offence . Well quoth he , we agree that by baptisme then we are broughte , and ( as one would say ) begotten of christ , for christe is oure father , and the churche his spouse is our mother , as al men naturallie haue Adam for their father , and eue for theyr mother , so all spirituall men haue Christ for their father , & the churche for their mother , whiche churche . As Eue was taken out of Adams side : so was she of Christes side , where out flowed bloud , for satisfaction & purging of our sinnes . Al this is true , quoth I , and godlye spoken . Nowe then , quoth he , tel me whether this churche of Christe hathe not ben alwayies : yes , quoth I , sithen the creacion of man , and shal be for euer . Verie good , quoth he . But yet tel me , wether this churche is not a visible Chusche , or no : yes ( quoth I ) that it is , howbeit none otherwyse visible , then Christe was here on earthe . That is no exterior pompe or shewe , setteth her forth commonlye . And therfore to see her we muste put on such eyes : as good men put one , to see and knowe Christe : when he walked here one earthe . For as Eue was of the same substaunce , Adam was of : so is the churche of the same substaunce , Christe is of . I meane fleshe of fleshe , and bone of hys bones , as Paule sayeth , Ephe. 5. Looke therefore howe Christe was visible knowen to be Christe , when he was on earthe : ( that is by considering him after the word of God ) so is the church knowen . I do not come to reason , saith he , at this present , & therfore I wil go on forward . Is not this a multitude ? yes ( ꝙ I ) that it is . Virgi● Howbeit , quod la●et anguis in herba You meane a sutteltie in the worde , what visible multitude was ther in Helias tyme , or when Moyses was on the mounte Aaron , and al Israel worshipping the calfe . you goo from the matterr , quoth he , No nothinge at all said I. For I doo but preuent you , knowynge wel where aboute you go , & therfore fewer wordes might serue : if that you so would . Well , quoth he , I perceaue you haue knowledge , and by a litle perceaue the more . Tell me yet more . whether this multitude haue not the ministerie or preaching of gods word ? Here syr , quoth I , you go aboute the bushe . If you vnderstande preaching , for confessing the gospel : I wil go with you , or els yf you wil , you may know that persecution often letteth preachinge ▪ Wel , I meane it so , quoth he . Tel me yet more , hath it not the sacramentes , quoth I , howbeit the mynisterie therof is often letted ? But I wil put you of your purpose , because I see where about you goo . If heretickes haue baptized and doo baptize , as they did in sainct Cyprians time : you knowe thys baptisme is baptisme , and not to be reiterated . This I speake , that the staunders by might see , that thoughe the poptshe church haue baptisme , whiche we receaue of them : yet therefore is it not the true churche : nor neuer neade we to be baptized again . which thing he sawe well ynoughe : and therfore he said , I went from the matter , addynge , that I had more errors , then one , or two . So ye say , quoth I : but that is not ynough , till you proue them . Well , quoth he , this churche is a multitude , hath the preaching of the gospell and the ministracion of the sacramentes , and yet more , hath it not the power of iurisdiction ? Oh sir , quoth I , whether goo you , you walke not wililey , ynough you can not deceaue me ( I thancke god ) : what iurisdiction is exercised in time of persecution , in affliction . I meane quoth he , by iurisdiction , admonishing one an other , and so forthe . well , go to said I , what then ? It hathe also , quoth he , succession of Byshoppes . And here he made muche adoo , to proue that this , was an essenciall point . you saye true , quoth I. For if this point fale you : all the church you go about to set forthe , will fall downe . you shal not fynd in all the scripture , this is essentiall pointe of succession of Byshoppes , quoth I. In Christes churche Antechrist will sitt . And Peter telleth vs , as it wente in the olde churche afore Christes comming : so will it be in the newe churche , sithen Christes comming . That is , as their were false Prophetes & suche as bare rule were aduersaries to the true Prophetes : so shal there be sithen Christes comming false teachers , euen as of such as be byshoppes , and beare rule amonges the people . you alwayes goo out of the matter , quoth he . But I wil ꝓue ( saeth he ) the succession of Byshoppes . Doo so , quoth I. Tel me quoth he , were not the Apostles byshoppes ? No , quoth I , excepte you will make a newe definition of Bishoppes , that is , giue no certein place . In dede sayth he , the Apostles office was more than byshopes , for it was vniuersal . But yet Christe instituted Byshoppes in his Churche , as Paule saith , he hathe gyuen Pastours , Prophetes , so that , I troue it be proued by the scriptures , the succession of byshoppe : to be an essentiall pointe . To this I aunswered , that the ministerie of godes word and ministers : is an essenciall pointe , but to translate this to byshoppes and their succession , quoth I : is a plaine subtiltie . And therfore , quoth I , that it may be playne : I wyll aske you a question . Tell me whether the scripture knowe anye difference betwene byshoppes , and ministers , whiche you call pristes . No saithe he , well , then goo on forwardes quoth I : and lette vs see what you shall get nowe by the succes●ion of Byshoppes , that is of ministres , whiche can not be vnderstande of such Byshoppes as minister not , but Lorde it . I perceaue , quoth he , that you are fare oute of the waye . For your doctrine , you can neuer showe this a multitude , whiche ministrethe goddes woorde and his Sacramentes , whiche hath iurisdiction and succession of Byshoppes , to haue from tyme to time beleued as you beleue , beginning nowe , & so go vpwards , as I wil do , quod he , of our doctrine . And therefore you are out of the Church , and so maye not be saued . Perchaunce you wil bring me downewardes , a shew to bleare the peoples eyes , but to goo vpwardes : that can you neuer doo . And this is the true triall . To this I aunswered , that he ought to giue me leaue to followe the scripture and examples of good men . Then said , yea . Wel then , quoth I , Stephen was accused and condempned as I am , that he taught newe and false doctrine before the fathers of the churche , then as they were taken . Now what doth Stephen for his purgacion , but improued theire accusacions . But how doth he it , by goinge vpwardes . No , but by goinge downewardes . Beginning at Abraham , and continuing stil till Esaias time , and the peoples captiuitie . From whence he maketh a great leape , vntill that tyme he was in ) whiche was I thincke vpon a foure yeres ) and called them by there right name hell houndes , rather then , heauen houndes . On this sorte syr , quoth I. will I proue my faith , & that you can neuer doo yours , yea , syr , quoth he . If we dyd knowe you had the holy goste : then could we beleue you . Here might haue ben aunswered , that Stephens enemies would not beleue he had the holy gost , and therefore they dyd as they did . But in speakinge he rose vp , and the keper called , and others that stode bye to take his parte all againste me . Howe be it gentlie , without anye tawntynge or rayling , onelye prayinge me to take hede to that maister Harpsfeld speake , who still said I , was oute of the churche , and did contempne it , spitt against it , and I cannot tel what . But I still affirmed that I was moste certeine , I was in Christes churche , & could shewe a demonstracion of my religion , from tyme to tyme continually . And so we made an ende , sainge that in the mornynge he would come again vnto me . God our father , A prayer ●f M. ●rad●ords . for the name and blod of his Christ : be merciful vnto vs , and vnto all his people , and kepe them from al false teachers , & blind guides , whereby ( alas ) I feare me muche hurte wil come to this realme of England . God our father blesse vs , and kepe vs in his truth & pore church foreuer . Amen .

Vppon the .16 . of Februarye in the morning about .9 . of the clocke : there came again the said maister Harpsfeld , and the other two with him . Nowe after a fewe wordes spoken : we sate downe , & maister Harpsfeld , beginning a very long oracion , almost ther quarters of an houre long . First repeting what , & how far we haue gone astraye , & beginnynge to proue vpwardes succession of Byshoppes here in England for .8 . c. yeres , in Fraunce , at Lions : for . xii.c . yeres , in spaine at Hispalen , for . viii.c . yeres in Italie at Millen , for .xii. c. yeres , goinge by that to proue his churche , whereto he vsed also succession of byshopes , in the Est church for the more confirmacion of hys wordes , and so concluded with an exhortation , & an interrogation . The exhortacion , that I woulde obey this church , the interrogacion , whether I could shewe anye such succession for the demonstraon of my church , ( for so he called it whiche I followed ) . Vnto this his long oracion , I made a sherte aunswered , howe that my memorie was euill for to aunswere particularlye his long oracion , therfore I woulde generallye doo it , thinckinge that bycause his oracion was rather to perswade , then to proue : that a general aunswere would serue . So I told him , that if Christe , or his Apostles beinge here on yearth , hath him demaunded of the Prelats of the churche then , then , to haue made a demonstracion of the churche , by succession of highe priestes , whiche had approued the doctrine he taught : I thincke , quoth I , that Christe hert would haue done as I doo . That is , haue brought furth that which vpholdeth the church : euen the veritie of the worde of God , taught & beleued , not of the high priestes ( which of longe time had persecuted it ) but by the Prophetes & other good simple men , whiche perchaunce were counted for heretickes with the churche : that is with them , that were ordeyned highe priestes in the churche , to whome the true churche was not then tyed by any succession , but the word of god . And thus to thincke quoth I ? 2. Pet. ● Saint Peter gyueth an occasion , when he saith : That as it went in the church before christes comminge : so shall it goo in the Churche , after his commynge , but then , the pillars of the Churche , were persecutours of it . Therefore the like we muste loke for nowe . Why , quoth be , I can gether , and proue you succession in Ierusalem of the high priestes . From Aarons time , I graunte , quoth he , but not suche succession as allowed the trueth . Why , quoth he , did they not all allow Moyses lawe : yes , quoth I. And kept it , for the bokes therof , as you do the Bible and holy scripture : but the interpretacion and meaning of it ▪ they did corrupte , as I take it you haue done . And therfore the persecutions they stirred vp against the Prophetes & Christe , was not for the lawe , but for the interpretacion of it , as you saie nowe : that we must haue the interpretacion of the scriptures , at your handes . but to make an ende , quoth I , death I do loke daily for , yea , hourely , & I thinke my time be but very short . Therfore I had neade to spend in praier , as much tyme with god as I can , ( whileste I haue it ) for his helpe and comforte . And therfore I praye you beare with me , that I do not more plainlye , and in more woordes , aunswere you longe talke . If I sawe death not so nere me as it is , I woulde then weye euery peice of your oracion : ( if you would giue me the some of them , ) & I would aunswere them , accordinglie I hope . But bicause I dare not , nor I wil not leaue of , lokinge and prouidinge for that whiche is at hande : I shall desire you to holde me excused , because I doo as I do . And I hartelye thancke you , for youre gentle good will . I shall hartelye praye GOD oure father , to giue you the same lyght and lyfe , as I wishe to my selfe . And so I beganne as to rise vppe . But then maister Harpsfeld beganne to tell me , that I was in a verye perillous case , and he was sorie to see me so setteled . Telling further , that in dede he could tell me nothinge , whether death were fare of or nere . But that forceth not , quoth he : so that you did dye well . Well quoth I ? yes . For I doubte not in this case , but to dye wel . For as I hope and am cercertain , my deathe shall please the Lord : so I trust , I shall dye cherfullye , to the comforte of his chyldren . yea , but what if you be deceaued , quoth he : what quoth I , if you dyd saye the Sone did not shyne nowe . Then it did shine thoroughe the wyndowe where wee satt , wel , quoth he , I am sorrie to see you so secure and carelesse . In dede quoth I , I am more carelese & secure , carnallie , then I shoulde be , God make me more vigilant . But in this case , quoth I , I can not be to secure , for I am most assured , I am in the truth . That are ye not , quoth he , for you are not of the Catholike church . No , quoth I ? thoughe you haue excommunicate me : yet am I in the Catholike church of Christe , and wil be a child of it , and an obediedt child for euer . I hope Christe will haue no lesse care for me , then he had for the blynd man excommunicate of the Sinagoge . And , quoth I , further , I am certain that the necessarie articles of the faith ( I meane the .xii. articles of the Crede ) . I confesse & beleue with that , which you call the holy church . So that euen your church , hath taken some thing to muche vpon her , to excommunicate me for that , whiche ( by the testimonie of my Lord of Durisme in his boke of the sacrament , latelye put furth ) was free of manye an . yeres after Christe , to beleue or not beleue : what is that quoth he ? Transubstantiation said I. Why , you are not condempned therefore only , quod he . Yes quoth I , that am I , and bycause I denye , that wicked men do receaue Christes bodie . No , quoth he , you agree not with vs in the presence , nor in nothing els . How you beleue , quoth I , you knowe : for my parte I confesse a presence of hole Christe , God , and man , to the the fayth of the receauour . No , quoth he , you muste beleue a Reall presence in the sacrament . In the sacramente , quoth I ? No I will not shute hym vppe , nor tye hym to it , otherwise then faithe see the and permitteth . If I woulde include Christes reall presence in the sacrament , or tye hym to it otherwise , then to the Fayth of the receauer : then the wycked man shoalde receiue him , whiche I do not , nor will not beleue by goddes grace . More pitie , quoth he : but a man maye easelye see you make no presence at all , and therefore you agree not therein with vs . I make a presence , quoth I , and a true presence : but to the fayth of the receauer . What , quoth one , that stode by , of Christes verie bodie whiche died for vs , yea , quoth I , euen of whole Christe : God , and man , to the faythe of hym that receaueth it . why , quoth maister Harpsfeld , this is nothing els , but to exclude the omnipotencie of God , and all kynde of myracle in the Sacrament . No , ꝙ I , I do not exclude his omnipotencie , but you rather doo it . For I beleue that Christe can accomplishe his promise , the substaunce of bread and wine beinge their still : as well as the accidents . And , quoth I , I counte it a greate miracle : that common bread shoulde be made a spiritual bread , that is , a bread ordeined of God , not for the foode of the bodye , but rather for the foode of the soule . For when we come to the sacrament , we come not feade our bodies , and therfore we haue but a litle peice of bred : but we come to feade our soules by faith , whiche the wicked waunte : and therfore they receaue nothynge but Panem Domini as Iudas did , and Panem Dominum , as the other the Apostles did . The wicked , saithe maister Harpsfeld , do receiue the verie bodie of Christe , but not the grace of his bodie . No , quoth I , they receaue not the body , for it is no dead carkase . He that receaueth it : receiueth the spirite , whiche is not with out grace I wyne . Wel , quoth he , you haue very many errors . you counte the Masse for abhominacion , and yet saint Abrosse saide masse . And so red oute of a boke written , a sentence of sainct Ambrose to ꝓue it . Why , sir , quod I , the masse , as it is now , was nothinge so in saint Ambrose tyme . was not the most perte of the Canon , made sithen by Gregorius , & Scolasticus , and others . In ded , quoth he , a greate peice , of it was made as ye saye , by Gregorius , but Scholasticus was before S. Ambrose tyme . I wene not , quoth I , howbeit I wyll not contend . Saint Gregorie saith , that the Apostles said masse , with out Cannons , onely with the lords praier . you saye true , quoth he , for the Canon is not the greateste parte of the masse ▪ The greatest part , is the sacrifice , eleuacion , transubstantiacion and adoracion . I can awaye with none of those , quoth I , No I thincke the same , quoth he . But yet Hoc facite telleth plain lye the sacrifice of the churce ▪ you consider not well , quoth I , this worde sacrifice , not discernynge betwixte the sacrifice of the churche , and the sacrifice for the churche . The sacrifice of the Churche , is no propitiatorie sacrifice : but a gratulatorie sacrifice . The sacrifice Christe hym self offered : is the propitiatorie sacrifice . And as for your Hoc facite is not referred to anye sacrifyinge : but to the whole action , takynge , eatynge . you speake nowe , quoth he , not learnedlye , for Chryste made his supper , onelye to the .12 . not admittinge his mother , or any of the seuentie disciples to it . Nowe the Apostles doo signifie the priestes . I thincke , quoth I , that you speake ▪ as you would men shoude vnderstand it , for els you woulde not kepe the Cup awaye from the Laitie . We haue greate cause to thancke you , that you wil giue vs the bread , for I perceaue you make it , as thoughe Christe had not commanded it to his whole church . From this talke he went to . show me Eleuacion bringing out a place of Saint Basilius de spiritu ▪ And I told him that I had red that place which semeth not to make of eleuation . But , ꝙ I , be it as it is , I haue ben in Prison long , without bokes and all necessaries for studie , and therfore I muste omitte these thinges death draweth nye , & I by your leaue , must not leaue of to prepare for it . If I could do you good , quoth he , I woulde be right glad , either in soule or body for you are in a perellous case both waies . Sir , quoth I , I thanck you for your good wil. My cause is as it is : I thancke God it was neuer so wel with me : for death to me shall be life I truste and hope in god . It were beste for you to desire maister Harpsfeld , quoth maister Cressewell , that he mighte make sute for you , for a time , to conferre . Vnto whiche woordes Maister Harpsfeld said : that he would doe the beste he could , for he pitied my case verie sore , Sir , quoth I , to desire any bodie to sewe for tyme for me , I neuer wil do it by godes helpe . For I am not wauerynge , nor I would not that anye bodye should thincke , I were so . But if you haue the charitie and loue towardes me , you pretend , and ther to doo thincke that I am in an errour : I thincke the same shoulde moue you to doo , as you woulde be done by : as you thincke of me : so do I of you , that you are farre out of the way , & not only thincke it , but also am therof assured . In this and suche lyke gentle talke we departed : he saing that he would pray for me , others willinge me , to desire him , to sue for me , whiche I did not . But I wished hym as muche good as he did me . And as he was goinge and bad me farewell , he turneth againe & geueth me Ireneus , prayinge me to read ouer a certeine place in it , whiche thing I told him I wold , although I had red it before . At the dore the wife of the house mete hym , & asked hym how he had done . Forsothe Maisters , quoth he , I fynd alwaies one maner of man of him , as I found him , so I leaue him . I pray you sir , quoth she , do hym no hurte . No quoth he , but if I can I wil do hym good . At after diner the same daye , maister Clayden my keper , commeth vnto me from the Erle of Darbye , with whome he had dyned beinge sent for purposly , about me . Nowe after his comming home , this was the some of hys talke . That the Erle would gladly haue me not to die . And therfore he would make sute on my behalfe to the Queenes gighnes . Wherfore , quoth my keper , you must tel me , what you wold haue him to do , that to morow I may bring hym worde , as he hath required me . Marie , ꝙ I , M. Clayden I hope I shal nead litle to make many wordes in telling you my sute , as I hartely thanke his lordship of his good wil , and zeale , that he beareth vnto me : so you know I can not desire any to make sut for me . If of his own will he do sue for pardon , banishmen , perpetual prison , or what his pleasure shal be for me , I were to blame , if that I would take it vnthankefullye . Albeit I knowe deathe , and spedie dispache were moste well come vnto me , Well , quoth he , I will tell hym to morowe , the thoughe you can not nor wil not make sute , to any to sue for you : yet you wil be content , If he on his lordshipes good will will labour on your behalfe . yea , quod I , and to tell you truth , where I perceaue that others doo sue for me , ( meaninge Perciual , Cressuel and maister Harpsfeld ) I had rather my Lord of Darbye shoulde doo it : for that my frendes & the countrye mighte lesse be offended at hym , bycause he maste haue the burning of me . After this talke with my keper maister Clayden : there commeth one of the Queenes seruauntes and officers , ( whose name I will not reherse ) whiche after a litle talke fel down on his knees , and with teares besought me , for the passion of Christe : that I would a litle loke to my self , to make some sute , &c. For , quoth he , ( swearing an othe ) it will not be longe vnto , before thou shalte be able to doo more good , then euer thou dideste . But I shewing my selfe not vnthankefull for his good will : departed from hym , as one litle lusting to heare suche counsell . Of him I lerned , twesdaye followinge , was the vttermost daye I shoulde tarrye here . Within an houre after this mannes departure from me : the keper maister Clayden called me , sayinge that he perceaued , howe that my frend Perciual had told him , that maister Harpsfeld had written to maister doctor Martin : to be a meanes to the Counsell for longer tyme for me . Where vpon , quoth he , I thincke it were beste to send my Lord of Darbie worde of this to might : lest he be preuented . And I aunswered thus . That as he thought good , so he mighte doo . But , quoth I , beware I hertelye praye , that you doo not tell my lord any thing , that I desire this . For if you do , it will in the ende be more againste you then with you . And he promised the same , and so departed oute of hande to the Court. Vpon the .17 . day ( whiche was sondaye ) in the after nowne , Perciual Cresse wel sent me word by him that came firste with him , that if I woulde make anye sute my selfe , or wil any to doo for me . I might spead , but els , quoth he , nothing wil be done , as he p̄sently hath receiued answere of my lord Chauncelor . wel , quoth I , I am at a pointe , and so toke my leaue , lokinge still when the Sheriffes woulde come for me . For I had heard ouer might , that one of the Garde whiche was appointed to conueye me down , into Lākishiere : had told one that they hade warning against to morowe for me .

Vppon the .18 . daye ( whiche was twesdaye ) I hearde that the write for my execucion was called in again , and the Sheriffe of Lākaishiere discharged of me for the presente . And in the after nowne one of my Lorde of Darbis men brought me worde : howe that my lord had taken greate paines for me , and had kneled before , the Queene , and many more wordes , desiring me som thing to se to my selfe now . But , quoth he , what , & how muche is done for you I can not tell , but this muche I thincke saith he , you shal haue your boks , and time ynough to peruse them . Well , quoth I , I praye you hartelye , thancke my Lorde for hys good wil towardes me , I shal ( as I haue done pray ) that God woulde giue vnto hym , as to my selfe , the which is all I can do . For doinge for my selfe , as I woulde be sorye that my lord or you , shuld thincke any waueringe in me for my doctrine : so I would be lothe , but to doo all for my selfe , that I can do with a good conscience . And as for tyme , quoth I , & bokes , although I see it is but a lingering of the tyme : yet I am glad of it , in this respecte : that my lord , & others may know , I hold no opinion , but such as I dare sifte , and abide the reasoning for , with any man . I trust , you and many others shal se , that oure doctrine is true , & therefore dare and desire to abide the light , and all mens lokynge on , where perchaunce it is bruted abrode , that we are altogether obstinate : and cannot defend it by lernynge , after this talke , there was a priest called maister Couppage : which began to exhorte me to take the iniuries done vnto me pacienlye . For , quoth he , I doubte not but if you wil come vnto vs : you shuld be more able to helpe manye , and your frendes also , then euer you were : bothe spirituallye and corporallye . If , quoth I , you kepe your maister Christe : I wil come vnto you , but other wise I knowe you not . This and such like talke we had for that presente , the Erle of Darbye his man appointynge maister Clayden my keper , in the mornyng to come to my Lord .

Vpon the .19 . day , whiche was wednesdaye , Maister Clayden came from my lord , and in his name asked me , whether I would be contente to spake with the kinges confessor , and Alphonsus , a frier , & to send him worde . Sir , quoth I , you knowe , that as I desire conference with no man : so I thancke God , I am not afraied to speake with anye man : where vppon he sent my Lord worde , as he saide . And so I herd nothing til the day followinge , howe that my Lorde of Darbye , had sent backe again , two of his men , which came to me , sayinge that they were sent to solicite my cause , but howe or what waye I could not lerne .

Vpon the .21 . daye , whiche was friday , the Archebishope of yorke , and the Byshoppe of Chichester : came to the Counter to speake with me . When I was come before them , they both , & speciallye my Lord of yorke : vsed me verye gentlie , they would haue had me sit downe , and bycause I woulde not : they also woulde not sitt , so we all stode , & whether I woulde or no , they would neades I should put on , not onely my night cappe : but my vpper cappe also , sayinge vnto me , that obedience was better then sacrifice . Now thus standing togither , my Lord of yorke began to tel me , howe that they were not sente to me , but of loue and charitie we come to you . And I , quoth he , of olde acquaintaunce whiche I haue had woith you , more then my Lord of Chichester hath had . And so commended me of a godlye life &c concluding with a question , how I was certain of saluacion , & of my religion . Marie , quod I amittinge all formalities , saue that I thancked them for their good wil , by the word of god , by the scriptures , I am certein of saluacion , and of my religion . Verye wel said quod my Lord of yorke . But howe doo you knowe the worde of God and the scriptures but by the church ? In dede my Lorde , quoth I , the churche was , and is a meane to bring a man more spedely , to know the scriptures , and the woorde of God , as was the woman of Samaria was a meane that the Samaritains knew Christ , but as when they had herd hym speake , they said now we know , that he is Christ , not bycause of the woordes , but bycause we our selfes haue heard hym : so , quoth I , after we come to the hearing and reading of the scriptures showed to vs , and discerned by the church : we doo beleue them , and know them , not by cause the church saith they are the scriptures , but bicause they be so , beinge therof assured , by the same spirite whiche wrote and spake them ▪ yea , quoth my lord of yorke , but you know in the Apostles time at the firste , the word was not written . True , quoth I , if you meane it for some bokes , of the bokes of the newe Testament , but els , for the olde testament , Peter telleth vs that we haue Firmiorem sermonem Propheticum , a more sure worde of prophecie . Not , quod I , that it is simplie so , but in respecte of the Apostles persons , whiche beinge aliue and compassed with infirmitie : attributed to the worde written more firmitie , as wherewith no faulte coulde be founde , whereas , for the infyrmitye of their persons , men perchaunce might haue founde some faulte at there perchīng . Albeit in verie dede , no lesse obedience & faith , ought to haue ben giuen to the one , then to the other , as being all of one spirite of truth . That place of Peter , quoth my Lorde of yorke , is not so to be vnderstande of the worde of God written . yes sir , quoth I , that it is and of none other . yea in dede , quoth my lord of Chichester , maister Bradford doth tel you the truth in that pointe . Well , quoth my Lorde of yorke , you knowe that Ireneus and others , do magnify much the churche , and alledge the Churche againste heretickes , and not the scriptures . True , quoth I , for they had to do , with suche heretickes : as dyd denye the scriptures , and yet dyd magnifie the Apostles : that they were inforsed , to vse those churches wherin the Apostles had taught , and that churche stil had receiued the same doctrine . you speake the verie truethe , quoth my Lorde of Chichester , for the heretickes did refuse all scriptures , excepte it were a peice of Lukes , gospell . Then quoth I , the alledginge of the churche , can not be primarlye , or principallye vsed againste me , whiche am so farre from denyinge of the scriptures , that I appele vnto them vtterlye , as to the onelye iudge . Io .xii. A pretye matter , quoth my Lorde of yorke , that you will take vppon you to iudge the Churche . I praye you where was your ●hurche this manye yeres ? for the Churche of Chryste is Catholicke and visible . Hytherto my Lorde , quoth I , I doo not iudge the churche , when I discerne it , from that congregacion , & those whiche be not in it . And I neuer denied the church to be Catholike and visible , althoughe at some times , it is more visible than at som . I praye you , quoth my Lorde of Chichester , tel me where the churche , which alowed your doctrine : was this .iiii. C. yeres ▪ I will tel you my Lorde , quoth I , or rather you shall tell it you selfe . If you will tell me where the church was in Helias time , when Helias said that he was lefte alone . That is no aunswere , quoth my Lorde of Chichester . I am more sorye you saye so , quoth I : But this will I tell you lordshipp , that the same eies , wherewith a man might haue espied the church them , yf you nowe had them : you would not saye it were no answere . The fault why the churche is not sene of you , is , not bycause the churche is not visible : but bicause your eyes are not clere ynoughe to se it . you are much deceiued , quoth he , to make such a collation , betwine the churche then , & now . Verie well speks my Lord ( quoth the Byshoppe of yorke ) for Christes saith , Edificabo ecclesiam meam , I wyll buylde my churche , and not I do , or haue buyld it , but I will build it . My lord quoth I , Peter taught me to make this collacion , saying : as in the people there was false Prophetes , whiche were muche in estima●ion afore Christes comming : so shall there be false teachers nowe , and verye manye shall followe them . And as for your futurtence I hope your grace , quod I , wil not exclude thereby Christs church not to haue ben before ▪ but rather that there is no buyldinge in the Churche , but by Christes woorke onelye . For Paule , and Apollo , be but waterers . In good faith maister Bradford , quoth my my lord of Chichester , I am sorye , to see you so litle to mind the churche . He taketh vpon him ( as they al doo ) to iudge the church , quod my Lorde of yorke . A man shall neuer come to certentie , that doth as they doo . My Lorde , quoth I , take me beseche you in good part , I speake simplie what I thincke : and I desire reason to aunswere my obiections your affections & sorowes can not by rules . If that you consider the ende , and cause of my condempnacion : I can not thincke , but that it shoulde so● thinge moue your honours . you knowe it well ynoughe , for you herd it , no matter was layed againste me , but what was gathered vppon myne one confession . Bycause I denyed transubstantiacion , and the wycked to receaue Christes body in the Sacramente : therfore I was condempned , and excommunicate , but not of the Church : although the pillers of the same ( as they be taken ) dyd it . No , quoth my Lorde of Chichester , I herd say : that the cause of youre prisonemente was , for that you exhorced the people , to take the sword in the one hande , and the matocke in the other . I neuer ment any suche thynge , nor speake any thynge in that sorte my lord , quoth I. yea quoth my Lorde of Yorke , you behaued your selfe before the Counsell , so stoutlye at the first , that you woulde defend the Religion then , and therefore worthelye were you punished . your grace , quoth I , did here me aunswere my Lorde Chauncellor in that pointe . But put the case I had ben so stote , as they and your grace make it : was not the lawes of the realme on me side then ? wherfore vniustlie I was punished . Onely transubstantiacion , which was had on myne owne confession : was the thing , on which my lorde Chauncellor proceded . you denye the presence , quoth my lord of yorke . I do not , quoth I , to the faith of the worthy receauer . Why quoth he , what is that ? them to saye that Christe lyeth not of the alter . No my lorde , quoth I , in dede I beleue not suche a presence . I semeth , quoth my Lorde of Chichester , that you haue not red Chrysostome , for he pointeth it . Of truth my lord , quoth I , hitherto I haue ben kepte well ynough withoute bokes , howbeit this I remember of Chrisostome , that he lyeth vppon the altar , as the Seraphins do , touch our lips with the coules of the altar in heauen , whiche is an Hiperbolicall locucion , as you knowe Chrisostome floweth with them . It is to euident quoth my lord of yorke , that you are gon to farre , but let vs come againe to the churche , out of the whiche you are excommunicated , I am not , quoth I , my lord : Although they whiche seme to be in the churche , and of the churche , haue excommuninicate me , as the pore blind man was Ihon .9 . I hope Christ receueth me . you deceaue your selfe , ꝙ he , and here muche was spoken of excommunicacion . At the laste , I said my Lorde , I pray you beare with me , that whiche I shall simplye speake before you . Assuredly , quoth I , as I thinck you did well , to departe from the Romishe churche : so I thincke you haue done wickedly to couple vs to it againe , for you can neuer proue it , which you make the mother Churche to be christes churche . Oh maister Bradford , quoth my lorde of Chichester , you were but a childe when this matter began . I was a yonge man then , comming from the vniuersitie , went with the woorlde , but I tell you it was alwaies against my stomack ▪ I was but a child then , quoth I ▪ how be it as I told you I thincke you haue done euill , for nowe we are come to the wicked man , which sitteth in the Temple of god ▪ that is in the churche , for it cannot be vnderstand of the Mahumet or any out of the churche , but of suche as beare rule in the church ▪ See , quoth my lord of yorke , howe you builde your faith vpon such places of scripture as are moste obscure , to deceaue your selfe , as thoughe you were in the church where you are not . Well my lorde , quoth I , thoughe I might by your frutes iudge of you and others : yet will not I vtterly condempne you for euer : oute of the churche , for perchaunce you sinne of ignoraunce ▪ & if I were in your case , I thincke not , quoth I , that I should not condempne him vtterly that is of my faith in the Sacrament knowinge as you know , that at the least .viii. C. yeres after Christs , as my lord of Durisme writteth : It was free to beleue , or not to beleue transubstantiation . This is a toye , quoth he that you haue found out of your owne brayne , as thoughe a man not beleuing as the churche doth : That is transubstantiacion were of the Churche he is an hereticke , and so none of the churche , quoth my lord of Chichester , that dothe hold any doctrine , againste the definition of the Churche , as nowe you do hold against transubstan●●ation . And he brought furth Ciprian whiche was no Hereticke , thoughe he beleued rebaptizinge of them , whiche were baptized of heretickes , bicause he held it , before the churche had defined it , where as if he had holden it after then had he ben an hereticke . Oh my lord , quod I , wil you condempne to the deuil any man that beleueth truely , the .12 . article of the faith , wherein I take the vnitie of Christes churche , to consiste , al thoughe in some pointes , he beleue not the definitions of that , whiche you cal the churche . If I shall speake to you franckelye , I doubte not but he that holdeth syncerlye the articles of oure belefe , thought in other thinges he dissent from your definitions , yet he shal be saued . yea , quod they both , this is your doctrine . No , quoth I , it is Paule , whiche saith , that if they hold the foundacion Christe , thoughe they build vppon hym . Hey strawe and stouble : yet they shal be saued . Lord god , quoth my lord of yorke , howe you delite to leyne to so hard , and darke places of scripture , yea , quoth my Lord of Chichester , I will shewe you howe that Luther doth excommunicate zwinglius for this matter , so red a place of Luther , making for his purpose . My lord , quoth I what Luther writteth , as you muche passe not of , so do I in this case , my faith is not build of Luther zwinglius , or Ecolampadius in this point . And in dede to tel you truelye , I neuer red anye of their woorkes in this matter . As for their persons , what so euer theire sayinges were , yet doo I thincke assuredly , that they were and are gods children , and sainctes with him . Wel , quoth my lord of yorke , you are out of the communion of the church , I am not , quoth I. For it consisteth , & is in faith . Loo , quoth he , howe you make your churche inuisible , that would haue the comunion of it , to consiste in faithe , yea , and like your grace , quoth I , for to haue communion with the churche , neadeth not visiblenesse of it , communion consisteth , ( as I said ) in faith , and not in exforior ceremonies , as appeareth both by Paule , whiche woulde haue Vnam fidem , & by Ireneus to Victor for the obseruacion of Ester , saing that Dissonantiam ieiunii should not Rumpere consonantiam fide . That same place , quoth my lord of chichester , hath often euen wounded my conscience , because we disceuered our selfes from the Sea of Rome . Wel , quoth I , God forgeue you , for I thincke you haue done euyll , to bringe England thyther againe , your honors know , I am plain , & therfore I beseche you beare with me . Here my Lord of yorke toke a boke of paper , of common places out of his bosome , and red a peice of Saint Augustine Contra Epistolam fundamenti , howe that there were many thinges , that did hold saint Augustine in the bosome of the church , consent of people and nations , aucthoritie confirmed with miracles , nourished with hope , increased wyth charitie , established with antiquitie . Besides this : there holdethe me in the churche , saith saint Augustine stil , the successions of priestes , from Peters seate vntil this present Bishoppe . Last of all the verye name of Catholicke doctrine dothe holde me . Loo , quoth he , howe saye you to this of Saint Augustine , point● me oute your churche thus . My Lord , quoth I , this of saint Augustine maketh as muche for me as for you , althoughe I might aunswere , that al these , if they had ben alledged to bee so firme as you make them , they might haue ben alledged againste Christ , and his Apostles , for ther was the lawe , and ceremonies consented in by the people , confirmed with miracles , antiquitie , and continual succession of byshoppes from Aarons tyme , vntil that present : In good faith , quod my lord of Chichester , maister Bradford , you marke to muche the state of the churche , before Christs comming : Sir , quod I , therein I do but as Peter teacheth .2 . Pet. 2. and Paule verye often . you would gladly haue your church heare , verye glorious , and as a most pleasante Ladie , but as a moste pleasante ladye , but as Christes saith , Beatus est quicunque non fuerit offensus per me : so maye his churche saye , blessed are they that are not offended at me . yea , quoth I , my lord you thinck none is of the church , but such as suffer persecution . what I thincke , quod I , god knoweth . I pray your grace , iudge me by anye wordes and speaking , and marke what Paule saythe . Omnes qui volunt , all that wil liue godly in christ Iesu , must suffer persecutions . Sometime Christ church hath reste here , but commonlye , quoth I , it is not so . And specially towardes the end , her forme wil be more vnsemlye . But what saye you to sainct Augustin , quoth he , where is youre Churche , that hath the consent of people & nations ? Mary , quod I , al people & nations that be gods people , haue consented with me & I with them in the doctrine of faith . Loo , quoth he , howe you goo about to shifte of all thinges . No my lord , quoth I , I meane simplye , and so speake god knoweth . S. Augustī quoth he , dooth here talke of succession , euen from Peters sea : yea , & like your grace , ꝙ I , that sea , them was nothing so much corrupt as it is now , Wel , quod he , you alwaies iudge the church . No my lord , quod I. As christs shep discerne christs voice , but they iudged not it : so they discerne the churche , but not iudge her . yes that you do sath he● No & like your grace , quoth I , ful wel may a man doubte of the Romish church , for she obaeth not Christs voice , as christs true church doth , wherin quod he , in laten seruis , ꝙ I , & robbeth the Laytye of Christes cuppe in the Sacramentes . Why quoth my lord of Chichester , Latten seruice was in England when the Pope was gon . True , quoth I , tyme was when the Pope was awaye , but not all Poperie as in Kyng Henrys dayes . Latten seruice , quoth my lord of yorke was appointed to be songe & had in the Queare where only were . Clerici , that is such as vnderstand laten , the people sitting in the bodie of the churche prayinge their owne priuat prayers , and this , quoth he , maye well be yet sene , by making of the Chaunsell and Quere , so as the people could not come in , or heare them : yea qut my lorde , quoth I , both in Chrisostomes tyme , and also in the laten churche in sainct Ieromes tyme , as he writteth in the preface I trowe to the Galathians , al the church saith , Amen . Aunswering againe mightely Amen : whereby we maye see that the prayers were made , that both the people herd them and vnderstod them : you are to blame , quoth my Lorde of Chichester to saye that the churche robbeth the people of the Cup. Well my lord , quod I , turne it as please you , all men knowe that the Laitye hath none of it : In dede : ꝙ I , I would wishe the churche would defyne againe that they might haue it for my ꝑt , if god make free , quoth I , who can define to make bound generallie . Well , quoth my lord of yorke , maister Bradford , we lese but labour , for you seke to put awaye al things that be told you to your good , your churche no man can knowe , yes that you maye well , quoth I. I pray you whereby : said he , forsoth Chrisostome shoeth it . Tantummodo per scripturas onely by the scriptures , and thus speaketh he verye often times togyther , as you well knowe , quod I ▪ In ded , quod he , that is of Chrisostome In opere imperfecto , whiche maye be doubted of the thinge whereby the church may be knowen best is succession of Byshoppes . No my lord , quod I , Lyra ful well writteth vppon Matthew , that Ecclesia non consistit in hominibus ratione Potestatis secularis aut ecclesiastice , Sedin hominibus in quibus est noti●ia Vera et confessio Fidei et veritatis . And in Hilarius time , you know he writteth to Auxcentius that the Churche dyd rather Delitescere in cauernis , them Eminere , in primariis sedibus . Here commeth one of their seruauntes , and tolde them that my lorde of Durisme taried for them at Maister yorkes house , for inded it was paste .12 . of the clocke , vppon a .4 . howres they taryed with me . And after that there man was come , they put vp there written bokes of common places , and saide they lamented my case , and so wishing me to red ouer a boke , whiche dyd doctor Crome good , as my Lorde of Chichester sayde and wyshyng me good in words , they wente there wayes , and I to my prison .

Vppon mondaye , whiche was the .22 . of Februarie about .8 . of the clock in the morning which was an howre soner then was appointed . There came to the Counter , where I was in prison to Spannishe friers . Alphonsus and the kings Confeffor ( as they said ) and with them twoo priestes , whiche were Englishe men , as I wene , & when the howse was voyded of other companye : I was called donne , & beinge come before them a stoole was pouled out , and I bidden sit doune : whiche thinge I did after a signe of ciuilitie geuen to them . Nowe thus sitting beginneth the Confessor to speake in latten , and aske me in latten ( for al our talke was in latten whether ) I had not sene nor herd of one Alphonsus , that had writen against heresies . And I aunswered that I did not know him . well , quoth he , this man ( pointing to Alphonsus ) is he . Verye good , quoth I. After this he beginneth to tell me , howe that of loue and charitie , by the meanes of the Erle of Darbye , they come to me , bycause I desired to conferre with them . And I answered that I neuer desired there comming nor to conferre with them , or any other , but , quoth I , seing you are come of charitie , as you saye , I cannot but thanckfully acknowledge it , and as for conference , though I desire it not : yet , quoth I , I wyl not refuse to talke with you , if you will . Than began Alphonsus to tel me , that it were requisite I did pray vnto god , that I mighte followe the direction of gods spirite , and as he should enspire me , not being addicte to min owne selfe , will , and with : where vpon I made a prayer , & besaught god to directe al our wille words , and workes , as the willes , words and workes of his children for euer , yea , quoth Alphonsus , you muste praye with your herte . For if you speake but with tong onely God , will not giue you his grace . Sir , quoth I. doo not iudge leste you be iudged , you haue hearde my wordes now charitie would haue you to leaue the iudgement of the hart to god , you must , quoth Alphonsus be as it were a newter , & not wedded to your sentence . But as one standinge in doubte , praye and beleue , & be redye to receaue what god shall inspire , for , quoth he , in vaine laboureth our tong to speake els : Sir , quoth I , my sentence if you meane it for Religion must not be in a doubting , or vncertein : as I thancke god , it is not euen for that where in . I am condempned , I haue no cause to doubt . but rather to be most certein of it , & therfor I pray god to confirme me more in it , for it is his truthe . And therfore bycause it may abid the light , I dare be bolde to haue it loke on , & conferre it with you or any man in respecte wherof I am glad of your comming & thancke you for your comming , althoughe ( as I said ) I desired not your comminge , nwas willing of your comming , or cold be content of it otherwise . Why , quod he , what is the matter wherefore you were condempned , for we know not , sir quod I , in prison haue I ben all most two yeres , I neuer transgressed any of the lawes : wherfore I might iustlye be punished . But because I franckly confessed , whereof I repent not my faith concerninge the sacrament being demaunded in these two points . One that there is no transubstantiacion , the other that the wicked doo not receaue Christes bodie , ▪ Lett vs quoth , he loke a litle on the firste , do you not beleue christs presence raallye and corporallye in the forme of bread ? No , quoth I. I doo beleue that there Christ is present to the faith of the worthye receauer , as there is present bread and wyne to the sences , and outwarde man , as for any suche presence of including and placing Christe , I beleue not , nor dare not do . Why , quoth he , I am sure you beleue Christes natural body is circumscriptible . And here he made muche a do , of two natures of Christ , howe that the one is euery where , & the other is in his proper place , demaunding questions here about whiche I aunswered with etiam , that is affirmatiuelye , bycause they were suche , as no wise man would haue spente any such tyme about as he did , for I neuer herd of any , that woulde haue denyed them . Nowe then , commeth he to this conclusion ( whiche I prayed hym , he woulde make : for els he had forgotten ) howe that because christes body was circumscriptible concerninge the humanitye in in heauen , therfore it was so in the bread . This hanges not togither , quod I , because you are here . Ergo you are at Romme , it is out of Fraunce , bycause christes body is in heauen . Io. it is in the Sacrament vnder the forme of bread . No wise man wil graunt it , quoth I. why , quoth he , you wil beleue nothing but that which is expresely spoke , in the scriptures , yes syr , quoth I , I will beleue what so euer you shall by demonstracions out of the scriptures declare vnto me , he is obstinate saieth he to his fellow : But , quoth he , to me is not god able to do it . yes syr , quoth I But heare the question is of gods will , and not of his powre : Why , quoth he . Doth he not say plainlye this is my bodye ? yes , quod I , and I denye it not , but that it is to the faith of the worthie receuer . To faith , quoth he ? howe is that ? Forsothe syr , quoth I , as I haue no tong to expresse it : so I know you haue no eares to heare and vnderstand it , for faith seyth more , then man can vtter , yea , but , quod he , I can tel all that I beleue , you beleue not muche then , quoth I. For if you beleue the ioies of heauen : if you beleue no more then you can tell , you wyll not muche desire to come thyther , for as the mynde is more capable and receauable then the mouth , so it conceaueth more then the tonge can expresse , Christe sayth , it is hys bodie , quoth he . And so saye I after a certein maner , quoth I : After a certein maner , quoth hee that is after another maner then it is in heauen , saint Augustin , quoth I telleth it more plainlye , that it is Christes bodye , after the same maner circuncysion was the Couenaunte of God , and the sacrament of faith , is faith , or to make it more plaine , as Baptisme , and the water of baptisme is regeneration . Verye wel said , quoth he , Baptisme and the water therof is a sacrament of gods grace & sprit in the water , closing the baptisme . No syr , quoth I , away with your inclosing on the same sorte christs bodye is in the bread , on whiche sorte the grace and spirite of God is in the water . In the water , quod he : is gods grace by significacion : so is the bodye in the breade , quoth I , in the Sacrament , you are muche deceaued , quoth he , that make no difference beetwene the sacramentes that be standeres , and the Sacramentes that are traunseuntes , and passers by . As for example , the sacramente of Order whiche you denye , thoughe saint Augustine affirme it , is standerd although the ceremonie be paste . But in baptisme so sone as the bodie is washen , the water cesseth to be a sacrament . True good syr , quoth I. And so it is in the lordes supper , no longer then it is in vse , is Christes sacrament . Here was maister Alphonsus wounderfullye chafed , and speake ( as often he had done before ) so : that the hole house dyd ringe againe with an Echo . He hath a great name of lerning . But surely he hath litle pacience . If I had ben any thynge whete : one house could not haue kepte vs bothe . At the lenght he cometh to that point , that I could not find in the scripture , baptisme , and the Lords supper , to haue any like similitude togither . And here ( lord god ) what aray he mad , how that we would receaue nothinge but scripture : & yet we are able to proue nothing by the scripture , Father , ꝙ I , for so I called him , God forgiue me if I dyd amysse , be paciente , and you shall see , that by the scripture I will finde baptisme and the Lords supper , coupled togither . No , quoth he , that canst thou neuer doo , let me see one texte of it , and a great ado he made . At the lenght : syr , quoth I , Paule sayeth , that as we are baptized into one bodie : so we are Potati in Vno spiritu , we haue dronken of one spirite , meaninge it of the Cuppe in the Lordes supper . Paule hath no such wordes quod he ▪ yes that he hath , quoth I. I trowe he hath not , quoth the kinges confessor . Giue me a Testament , quoth I , and I wil showe it to you : so a priest that sate by them gaue me his testamente , & I showed them the plaine texte . Here was nowe lokinge one vpon an other , finallye this simple shifte was founde : that Paule spake not of the sacrament . Wel , sir quod quoth I , thoughe the texte be plaine , yet I wene the fathers do expound it so , especially ( except my memorie faile me : ) Chrisostome doth it . Here I seing them blancke : I began to tel them howe I had byn handled in prison , with oute boke , paper , pen , yucke , and howe vniustly I had ben handled , and prayed them , that as they tolde me their comminge was to do me good : so they woulde doo it , and not to do me hurte , whiche thyng they much marked not , because of the foyle they had , which I would haue suppressed . Alphonsus therfore whiche had the Testamente in his hande , and turned ouer leafe by leafe : at the lenght he commeth to the .5 . to the Corinthiens : and there red howe that he was giltye , whiche made no difference of the lordes bodie , yea syr , quoth I , but therwith he sayeth , he that eateth of of the bread , callinge it bread stil , and that , after consecracion as you cal it . And so brought furth the sentence of the .10 . to the Corinthe : the breade whiche we breake . &c. Oh , quoth he , how ignoraunt are you which knowe not that thinges retaine the names they had after their conuersion : as Moyses Rood . And here they called for a Bible , and so was all moste a quarter of an houre , before he could find out the place , finding faulte at the Bible : bycause it was Vataples Bible . At the lenght when he had found it : lord God howe he triumphed but I cooled the heate furthwith for syr , quoth I , there is mencion made of the conuersion , as well as the same appered to the sence , but , quoth I , here you cannot fynd it so , finde me one worde how the bread is conuerted : and I will then saye , you bringe some matter , that maketh for you . At these wordes he was troubled , & at the lenght , he said , howe that I hanged on mine owne sence . No , quoth I , that doo I not . For I will bringe you furth ( for .viii. C. yeres after Christe ) the fathers of the church , to confirme this which I spake . No , quoth he , you haue the churche againste you . I haue not quoth I , christ church against me . yes that you haue sayth he . And so asked me what the church was . Marie , quoth I , Christs wife , the cheare , and seate of veritie . Is she visible , quoth he . ye that she is , quoth I , if that you wil put on the spectacles of gods word to loke on her . This churche , quoth he , hath defyned the contrarye , and that will I proue by all the good fathers continuallye , from Christes Ascencension , euer , for .15 . C. yeres at the leaste , continually . What , will you proue so quoth I , transubstantiation ? yea , quoth he , that the bread is turned into Christs bodie . you speake more then you can do quod I. That do I not quod he . Then quod I. I wil giue place . Wil you beleue quod he . Beleue ▪ ꝙ I ▪ is gods gift , therfore cannot I ꝓmise , but I tel you , quod I , that I wil giue place , & I hope shal beleue gods truth , alwaies so good is he . Here he found a grreat faulte with me , that I would not deserne betwixte Habitum et actum , as though Actus , which he called credulitie , had ben in our powre , but this he let passe , & commeth againe , asking me , if he could proue it , as he said : whether that I would giue place . yea ꝙ I , that I wil. Here was called for , paper , pen and yncke , to writte . And then I said , what and if that I proue it you , continuallye for .viii. C. yeres after Christe , at the least , the substabnce of bred to remayne in the Sacrament , by the testimonie of the Fathers : what will you do , quod I ? I will giue place , quod he , with this , paper came in . Then said I , writte you , howe that you wyll gyue place , if I so proue , & I wil write , that I wyll gyue place yf you so proue . Bycause you are the aunciente , you shall haue the preeminaunce . Lord God howe angry he was nowe , and said that he came not to lerne at me , & so saide here is two witnesses ( meaning it of the two pristes ) and they be sufficiedt . And so here about we had much ado to none effecte : but to a plaine scolding , if I had not giuen place to the furor of Alphonsus , for he was verye testie and hastie , and here he dispreased Bucer , and all that praised hym , with muche other talke . At the lenght , the confessor asked me of the seconde question what it was . Sir , quoth I , that the wicked men receaue not Christes bodie in the sacrament , as Sainte Augustin speaketh of Iudas , that he receaued Panem domini but not panem dominum . S. Augustin sayth not so , quoth Alphonsus . yes that doth he , quoth I , & so they rose vp , & talked no more of that matter , but asked me how they should get me all the fathers and old aucthors , that proue and affirme the bread to be turned into Christes bodie . Sir , quoth I , you maye sone doo it , howbeit bycause you shall not trouble youre self : if I maye haue my bokes , I nead no more but notes of the places . Thus they went their waies , howe they brooked my talke : I can not tell , for they bad me not farewell . After they were gon , commeth one of the priestes , and willed me not to be so obstinate . Sir quoth I , be not you so wauering . In all the scriptures cannot you find me non est panis . yes thst I can , quoth he , in .5 . places . Then will I eate your boke , quoth I , so the boke was opened , but no place founde , and he wente his waye smiling . God helpe vs .

Vpon the .21 . of Marche , by the meanes of one of that Erle of Darby his men , lefte behind my lorde , his maister , for the soliting of my cause as he said to me : there came to the Counter to diner , one maister Collior , ones warden of Maūchester , & the said seruaunt of the Erle of darbie , of whome I lerned the maister doctor Westone Deane of westm , would be with me in that after none aboute .2 . of the clocke , or before . At diner therfore when the sayd warden dyd discommend kynge Edwarde , and went about to sett furth the aucthoritie of the Pope , whiche I with stode , defendinge the kinges faith , that it was Catholike , and that the aucthoritie of the Byshoppe of Rome his supremycie was vsurped , bringing furth the testimonie of Gregorie which calleth the name of supreame head to be a title of that foriner to an techrist : a woman prisoner was brought in , where vpon I toke occasion to rise from the table , & so went to my prison Chamber to begge of god grace , and helpe therin , continuing there stil vntil I was called down to speake which maisterster Weston . So soone as I came into the hall : maister weston verye gentlie toke me by the hand , & asked me how I did , with such other talke . At the lenght he willed auoidaunce of the chamber , so they all went out , saue maister weston himself , maister Collior , the Erle of Darbie his seruaunt , that subdeane of we wm̄ , the keper maister Clayden , & the person of the churche wher the Counter is . Nowe then he beginneth to tel me , how that he was often mynded to haue come vnto me , beinge therto desired of the Erle of Darby and , quod he , after that I perceaued by his man , that you could be contented rather to speake with me , then any others : I could not but come to do you good if I can , for hurt be sure I wil not . Sir quoth I. When I perceued by the reporte of my lord seruaunte , that you did beare me good will more ( as he said ) than any other of your sorte : I told him them , that therfore I could be better contente & more willing to talke with you , if you should come vnto me . This did I say , quoth I , other wise I desired not your comminge . Well , quoth he , nowe I am come to talke with you , but before we shal entre into any talke , certein principlis we muste agre vppon , whiche shal be this daies worke . Firste , quoth he , I shal desire you to put awaye all vayne glorie , and not to holde any thinge for the praise of the world . Sir , quoth I , Augustine maketh that in dede a peice of the definition of an hereticke , whiche if I can not put awaye cleane ( for I thincke there wil a spice of it remayne in vs , as longe as this fleshe liueth ) yet I promisse you by the grace of god , that I purposse not to yeld to it , god I hope will neuer suffer it to bare rule in them , that striue there againste , & desire all the dregges of it vtterly driuen out of vs . I am gladde . quoth he , to here you saye so , although in ded , quoth he . I thincke you do not so muche esteme it , as others doo . Secondly I would desire you that you wil put away singularitie in your iudgement & opinions , syr , quod I , god forbed that I should sticke to any singularitie or priuat iudgement in godes religion . Hitherto I haue not desired it , neither do , nor mind at any time , to hold any other doctrine then is publicke , & Catholicke , understanding catholicke , as good men do , according to gods worde . Very wel , quod he , this is a good dayes woorke , I hope to do you good : and therfore nowe thirdly , I shal pray you to write me Capita of those thinges , where vppon you stand in the Sacrament , and to sende them to me , betwixte this and wednesdaye nexte , vntil whiche tyme , yea vntil I come to you againe , be assured that you are with oute all perill of death . Of my fidelitie I warraunte you , therfore awaye with all dubitacions &c. Sir , quod I , I wil write to you the groundes I ●ene to , in this matter . As for death if it come : well come be it , this whiche you require of me , shal be no great let to me therin . you knowe saith he , that Saint Augustin was a Manicean , yet was he conuerted at the lenght : so I haue good hope of you . Sir , quod I , because I wil not flater you : I would you shoulde flatlye knowe , that I am euen setteled in the religion wherfore I am condempned . yea but , quod he , if it be not the truth , and if you see euident matter to the contrarie , will not you then giue place ? God forbed , quod I , but that I should alwayes gyue place to the truthe . I would haue you to pray so , quod he . so I doo quoth I , and that he wil more and more confirme me in it , as I thancke god he hath done , and doth : yea , but , quoth he , praye with a condicion if you be in it . No. syr , quod I , I cannot pray so , bycause I am setteled and assured of his truthe . Wel , quoth he , as the lerned byshoppe aunswered Saint Augustines mother that thoughe he was obstinat : yet the teares of suche a mother coulde not but wene her sonne : so , quod he , I hope your prayers . ( For min eyes did showe that I had wepte in prayer ) cannot but be herde of God thoughe not as you woulde , yet as best shall please god , do you not , quod he , remember the hystorie hereof , yes syr , quoth I. I thincke it to be of saincte Ambrose . No , quod he , that it is not , and here he woulde haue layed a wager : and began to triumphe sayinge . As you are ouerseen herein , so you are in the other thinges . Well syr , quoth I. I will not contend with you for the name , this I remember sainct Augustin writteth in his Confessions . After this talke he begon to tel : howe that the people were by me procured to withstand the Queene , but I badde him hange me vppe , as a traytour , and a theif : if euer I encouraged any to rebellion , whiche thinge my keper and others that were there of the priests affirmed on my behalf . So muche talke there was at Ephesios , bowe he had saued men goinge in the carte to be hanged , suche like . The ende was this , that I shoulde send ? vnto hym , capita doctrine of the supper , and after wednesday he woulde come vnto me again , and thus departed he , after that he had droncken to me in beare and wine , I omitte here , talke of Oxford , of bokes of German writters , of the feare of death , and suche other talke whiche are to no purpose .

Vpon the .28 . of Marche came to the Counter Doctor Pendelton , and with hym Maister Collior , ones warden of Maunchechester , and Stephen Beiche . After salutacions , maister Pendelton began to speake to me , that he was sorrie for my trouble . And further , quod he , after that I did know you could becontent to talk with me I made the more spede , being as redye to doo you the good , and pleasure that I can , as you would wishe &c. Syr , quod I , the maner howe I was contente to speake with you was on this sorte , maister Beiche was often in hand with me , whom he should bringe vnto me , and named you amongest other . And , quod I , I remember that I sayd , I had rather speake with you then wyth anye of all other . Nowe the cause I so would , I will brieflye tell you , I remember that ones you were ( as farre as a man mighte iudge ) of the religion that I am of , at this presente . And I remember that you haue sette fourthe the same earnestly . Gladlye therefore woulde I learne of you , what thynge it was , that moued your conscience to altre : & gladly would I see what thing it is or was that you haue seen sithen , which you sawe not before . Here maister Pendelton was som thing abashed , as appeareth by his fombling in his spech . Maister Bradforde , quod he , I do not knowe wherfore you are condempned . Marye , quod I , transubstantiacion is the thinge , wherof I am condempned , and also the denyall of wicked men to receaue Christs bodie , wherin I would desire you to shewe me what reasons , which before you knewe not , dyd moue your conscience to altre : for ones as I sayd you were as I am in religion . Heare again maister Pendelton halfe amased , begon to excuse him selfe , if it would haue been , as though he had not denyed fullye transubstantiacion in dede , all though the word , quod he I said was not in scripture . & so he made an endlesse tale of the thinge that moued hym to altre . As far as I cold perceaue , it was because he had loked to muche , and giuen to muche diligence and estimacion , to Luther and Melancton . But , quod he , I will gether to you the places , and send them . And here he desired me , that he mighte see a Copie of that , which I had sent maister Weston , the whiche I did promise hym . This is a some of the effectual talke we had . Besides whiche talke , we had a reasonninge a litle , whether euil men did receaue Christes bodie . I no. & he , yea . I said they receaued not the spirite , Ergo not the bodie : for it is no carcase , quoth I , hereto I brought out saint Augustin , how Iudas receaued Panem domini , and not Panem dominum , how that he must be in corpori Christi , that must receaue Corpus christi , which he went about to put awaye , with idem , and not , ad idem , out of saint Ierome and howe that in cotpore Christi , was too bee vnderstande of al that be in the visible church , althoughe they be not in the inuisible churche with God , whiche I denied to be Sainte Augustines meanynge , and saide also : that saint Ieromes allegations could not make for that purpose . Again we had talke of transubstantiacion . He bringeth furth Ciprian , Panis quem dedit Dominus natura mutatus . And I expounded Natura , not for the substaunce . As quod I , the nature of an herbe is not the substaunce of it : so the breade chaunged in nature , is not to be taken for chaunged in substaunce , for nowe it is ordeyned not for the food of the bodie simplye , but rather for the food of the soule . And here I broughte fourth Gelasius , whome he saide was a Pope . yea marye , quod I. But his fayth , is my faith , quod I , for the Sacrament , if you wold receaue it . From this talke we wente to talke , wether Accidentia were Res or no. If they be properlie Res , quod I , then be they substaunce , and if they be substaunce , ( in that we muste haue Tetrestrem rem , and eayrthlye substaunce in the Sacrament as Ireneus saithe ) : then muste we not denye bread , quod I. But he saide that colour was the earthelye thynge , and called it an accidentall substaunce . And so here aboutes wee hadde muche babling to none effecte . I omitte the talke we had of my Lorde of Caunterbury , of Peter Martirs boke , of his letter laied to my charge . When he was condempned of the church , whether Dic ecclesie et ce ▪ was of the vniuersall churche , or of a particular churche , which at the lenght he graunted of vayne glorye , whiche he willed me to be ware of at his comming furth of the Countre , and suche like talke . A litle before his departinge , I sayde this . Maister doctor , quod I , as I saide to Maister weston the laste daye , so saye I vnto you againe , that I am the same man in religion againste transubstantiacion still , which I was when I came into prison : for , quod I , hitherto I haue seen nothynge in anye pointe , to infirme me . At whiche wordes he was som thing moued , & said , that , that was not Catholicke ▪ yes , quod I , and I truste so to proue it , euen by the testimonie of the catholicke fathers , vntill Concilium Lateranense , and there abouts . The keper maister Clayden desired hym to tarrie diner , whiche thing he denyed : bycause had els wheare promised . And so wente his waye : sayinge , that he woulde came after to me : god one father , be with vs al , and giue vs the spirite of his truth for euer . Amen .

In the after nowne about .5 . of the clocke , cometh maister weston , whiche sente worde to the keper , that he would haue ben with me ▪ by .2 . of the clocke . Nowe when I was come down out of my prison chamber vnto him : he very gentlye saluted me , desired the companye : euerie man to departe , and so sat donne , and I besides hym . And after that he had thancked me for my writtinge vnto hym : he pulled out of his bosome the same writing , which I had sent hym . The copie whereof in Englishe ( for I did writte it in Laten ) shal immediatly follow this communicacion . And before he began to read it , he showed me , that he asked of my conuersacion at Cambridge sithen his being wyth me , & , quod he , maister Bradford bycause you ar a man , not giuen to the glorie of this world , I wil speake it before your face : your life I haue lerned was such there alwaies , as al men , euen the greatest enemies you haue : can not but praise you , & it . And therfore I loue you , quod he muche better then euer I did . Nowe , quod he , I will reade ouer your arguments , & so we wyll conferrthē . Such they ar , that a man may well perceaue you stande of conscience , & therfore I am glad , and the more redye to pitie you . So he began to rede the first , and there beganne to tell , howe that thoughe the worde transubstantiacion began but lately : yet the thinge , quod he , was & hath bene sithen Christes institucion . And I told him , that I did not contend , or hange vppon the worde onlye : but vpon the thing which , quod I , is as newe as the worde . Then went he to the second , and there broughte oute sainte Augustine , howe that if an euil man , goinge to the deuyll , did make his will : his sonne and heyre would not saye , hys father dyd lye in it , or speake tropically . Much more Christe , quod he goinge to god , did neuer lye nor vse any figuratiue speach in his laste wil and testament . Do you not remember this place of saint Augustin , quod he ? yes syr , quod I. But I remember not that saint Augustine hath those wordes , tropice or fyguratiue , that is figuratiuelye spoken as you reherse . For a man maye speake a thinge figuratiuely and lye not , as Christe did in his last supper . After this he wente to the third , and broughte furtho Ciprian , howe that the nature of the bread is turned into fleshe . Here faith he that my Lord of Caunter burie expoundeth nature , for qualitie by Gelasius , the whiche interpretacion serueth for the aunswere of your third argument , that Christe called breade his bodye , that is the qualitie , forme , and apparaunce of bread . And further quod he , the scripture is wonte to call thinges , as they auerr , by the same names . As Symon the Leper , not whiche was so presentlye , but bicause he had ben so . Syr , quod I , Ciprian wrote before Gelasius , therfore Ciprian must not expound Gelastus , but Gelasius , Ciprian , and so they both teache that bread remaineth stil . As for thinges hauinge still the names they had maketh nothinge to aunswere this except you could shew , that this nowe were no bread● as easelye a man might haue knowen and seen then , Simon to haue ben healed and cleane from hys Leprosey . After this he wente to the foerth of the Cuppe , the which he din not fully red but digressed into a longe talke of Ciprians Epistles De aquarus , Also of Saint Augustine , expoundinge the breakinge of bread by Christe to his . 2. Disciples goinge to Emause , to be of the Sacramente , with such other talke to no certein purpose , and therfore I prayed him , that in as muche as I had written to hym , the reasons that stablishe my faith against transubstantiacion : so he woulde doo the lyke to me , that is , aunswere myne by writinge , and shew me moo reasons in writinge , to confirme transubstantiacion , which he promised me to doo , and said that he would sende or briynge it to me agayne , with in three dayes . And so when he hadde ouerlye reade my argumentes , and heare and there speake , litle to the purpose for auoidynge of them , and therfore I eftsones prayed him to giue me in writtynge , his aunsweres : he began to tell me , how , & what he had done for Grymbolde , & howe that I neade not to feare anye reproche or slander I shoulde sustaine , belike meaning , to haue me secretly , to haue come to them , as Grymbold dyd , for he subscribed . And therefore I speake on this sorte vnto hym . Maister Deane , quod I , I wold gladly that you should not conceaue of me , that I passe of shame of men , simplye , in this matter : I rather would haue you to thincke of me , as the verye truth is : that hitherto , as I haue seene , nor heard nothinge to infirme my faith againste transubstantiacion : so I am no lesse setled in it . then I was at my comminge hyther . I loue , quod I , to be plaine with you , & to tell you at the first , that you shall finde at the last . In good fayth Maister Bradforde , quod he , I loue you the better for your plainnesse : & do not thincke otherwise of me , quod he , but that you shall find me plaine in al my talke with you . Here he began to aske me of my imprisonment , and condempnacion . So I began , & told hym , how I had ben handled , wheare at the semed to wounder : yea in playne wordes he saide , I had ben handled otherwise , then I had gyuen cause : & so showed me , howe that my Lorde of Bath reported , that I had deserued a benefite at the Queenes hande , and at all the Counsels . In this kind of talke we spent an houre almost . and so as one wery I did arise vp ▪ and he called in the keper , and before hym bad me be of good comforte , and to bee out of all peril of death . Mary sir quoth the keper , but it is in euery mans mouth : that hee shal dye to morowe . Whereat , he semed some thyng halfe amased , and sayde , hee woulde goe before euensong , before the Queene and speake to her on my behalfe . And I thynke , the Queene hadde almoste supped at that presente , for it was paste sixe of the clocke . Before the keper I tolde hym againe , that styll I was the same manne I was at the firste , and til I should see matter to touch conscience to the contrary : must nedes so continewe . The keper desyred me , to hearken to mayster Doctours counsayle , and prayed . M. Doctor to bee good vnto me . And so after we hade dronke together : maister Doctor with most gentle woordes , tooke his leaue for three dayes . Nowe when he was gone : the keper tolde me , how that mayster Doctor spake openly , how that he sawe no cause why thei should burne me . Whiche sentence for the ambiguitie of the meaning , made me sorye leste I had behaued my selfe in any thinge , wherin he gathered anye conformablenesse to them in their doctrine , which god knoweth I neuer as yet dyd so . God oure father blesse vs , as hys chyldren , for euer , and keepe vs from all euyll for euer . Amen . Vpon the fifth daye of Apryll came maister Doctor Weston to the counter aboute .2 . of the clocke in the after noone , who excused hymselfe for beyng so long absent : partely by sickenes , partely for that Doctor Pendleton tolde hym that hee woulde come vnto me , and partely for that ( quoth he ) I withstoode certaine Monckes , which would haue come agayne into Westminster . After whiche talke , he told me howe that the Pope was dead , and then he tolde me , how he had spoken to the Queene for me , and how that death was not nere vnto me . Laste of all , he excused himselfe , for not aunswering myne argumentes against transubstanciacion : because my commynge to daye ( quoth he ) was more by fortune then of purpose . I woulde gladlye ( quoth I ) omittyng all other talkes , haue seen an aunswer to my argumentes .

Why ( quoth he ) you haue remembered some thynge what I spake to you , when I was last with you . No sir ( quoth I ) I neuer called them in maner to mynde , sythen that tyme , as well because I hoped you would haue written them : as also for that they semed , not to bee so materiall . In good faith ( ꝙ he ) I cannot see any other or better waye for you , then for to submit youre self to the iudgement of the Churche ▪ Marye so I wyll sir ( quoth I ) yf so be , by the churche you vnderstand Christes church . Lo ( quoth he ) you take vpon you to iudge the church . No sir ( quoth I ) that doe I not , in takyng vpon me to discerne , I do not iudge the church . yes that you do ( quoth he ) and make inuisible . I dooe neyther , quoth I. Why , sayth he , who can see youre churche ? Those sir , quoth I , that haue spiritual eyes , wherewith they mighte haue dyscerned , Christes visible conuersacion heare vpon earth . Nay , quoth he , Christes churche hath thre tokens , that all men may looke well vpon : namely , vnitie , antiquitye , and consent . These thre , quoth I , may be as well in euil as in good , as well in synne as in vertue , as well in the deuyls churche , as in Gods churche . As for ensaumple , quoth I , Idolatrie amongest the Israelites had al those thre . Chrisostome telleth plainly , as you wel knowe saide I , that the church is well knowen , Tantummodo per scripturas alonely bi the scriptures . In good faithe , ꝙ hee , you make your churche inuisible , when you wyll haue it knowen alonelye by the scriptures . No sir ( quoth I ) the scriptures dooe playnely set furth to vs , the churche , that all menne maye well ynough , thereby know her , yf thei list to loke . The church ( ꝙ hee ) is like a Towre or towne vppon a Hyll , that al men may se . True sir ( quoth I ) al men that be not blynde . Visible ynough is the churche , but menues blindnes is great . Impute not therefore to the churche , that whiche is to bee imputed to mens blindenes . Where ( quoth he ) was your church forty yeares agoe ? or where is it nowe ? excepte in a corner of Germanye . Forsooth sir ( quoth I , the churche of Christ is dispersed , and not tied to this or that place , but to the word of god : so that where it is , there is Gods churche , yf it bee truelye taught . Loe ( ꝙ hee ) is not thys to make the church inuisible ? Poi●n me out a realme , a hundreth yeres paste , whiche mayntayned youre doctryne . Syr ( quoth I ) yf you wyl , or woulde well marke the state of the church , before Christes commynge , with it now , ( as saint Paule and Peter wylleth vs ) I thynke you woulde not looke for suche shewes of the churche to be made : as to poynte it oute by realmes . You knowe ( quoth I ) that in Helyas time both in Israel , and els where , Gods churche was not poyntable : and therefore cryed he oute that he was lefte alone . No marye , quoth he , dyd not God say that there was .7000 whyche hadde not bowed theyr knees to Baale ? Loe , sayeth he , 7000. shewe me seuen thousande a hundreth yeares agoo of your religion . Syr ( quoth I ) these .7000 . were not knowen to men , for then Helias woulde not haue sayde , that hee hadde bene before left alone . And thys is playne ynough , by that whiche the texte hathe , namelye , that God sayeth Reliqui , I haue reserued to me .7000 . Marke that it sayeth , God had reserued to hym selfe to hys own knowledge , as I doubt not but the hundreth yeares agoe , God hadde hys , 7000. in hys proper places , thoughe menne knewe not thereof . Well maister Bradforde ( sayeth hee . ) I wyll not make youre case woorse , then for transubstanciacion , all thoughe I knowe that we agree not in Other matters . And I praye you ( quoth he ) make you it youre selfe not woorse . If I canne dooe you good I wyll , hurte you I wyll not , I am no Prynce , and therefore I cannot promyse lyfe : excepte you wyll submytte youre self , to the diffinicion of the church . Syr ( quoth I ) so that you wyll defyne me your churche , that vnder it , you brynge not in a false churche : you shall not see but that we shal soune bee at a poynt . In good fayth maister Bradford , ( quoth hee . ) I see no good wyl be doone , and therefore I wyl wishe you as muche good as I can , and hereafter I will perchaunce come or sende to you agayne , and so he sent for maister Weale and departed . Nowe after his departynge : commeth the keper maister Claydon , and Stephen Beiche , and they were verye hotte with me , and spake vnto me in suche sorte that I should not loke but to haue them vtter enemies vnto me , notwithstandyyng the frendeshippe , they both haue hitherto pretended . God bee wyth vs , & what matter is it who bee agaynste vs .

Finis .

¶ Imprinted at London , in Fleetstrete , at the Signe of the Faucon by William Griffith , and are to be sold at the litle shop in saincte Dunstones churchyard . Anno .1561 . The .xiii. daie of Maye .

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