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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A17306) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 7352) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 708:03) A plea to an appeale trauersed dialogue wise. By H.B. Burton, Henry, 1578-1648. [24], 93, [3] p. By W. I[ones], Printed at London : 1626. H.B. = Henry Burton. A reply to: Montagu, Richard. Appello Caesarem. Printer's name from STC. The last leaf is blank. This edition has errata on A4r and N3r; the heart in the title page woodcut is upside-down. Reproduction of the original in Cambridge University Library. eng Montagu, Richard, 1577-1641. -- Appello Caesarem -- Early works to 1800. eebo A plea to an appeale: trauersed dialogue wise. By H.B. Burton, Henry 1626 122 48549 361 0 0 0 2 0 78.48 D The rate of 78.48 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2004-06 Assigned for keying and markup 2004-06 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2004-07 Sampled and proofread 2004-07 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2004-10 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

A PLEA TO AN APPEALE : Trauersed Dialogue wise .

By H. B.

August . De Tempore . Sermo. 98. Idcirco Doctrinam Catholicam contradicentium obsidet impugnatio , vt fides nostra non otio torpescat , sed multis exercitationibus elimetur . Ibid. There must be heresies euen among you , that they which are approued , may bee made manifest among you . 1. Cor. 11. 19.

Printed at London , by W. I. 1626.

TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY PRINCE , CHARLES , KING OF GREAT Britaine , France and Ireland ; Defender of the Faith , &c. Most gratious Soueraigne :

IF it be a mans glory to passe by an offence : how much more a Kings ? who being armed with power to reuenge , his pardon is the more glorious , the more gratious . This is Your Maiesties glory : that You haue passed by the offence of Your seruant : and Your glory how beautifully shall it shine forth , if Your noble pardon shall be sealed with Your Royall Patronage of this poore Plea ? which if it passe not vnder the Priuiledge of the Caesarean Maiestie ; it is like to fare the worse for the Atturneys sake ; whom ( besides his many personall imperfections ) the very scarres of his late disgrace with so gracious a Maister , expose , with his Plea , as no lesseridiculous to the Antagonists , then Dauids sling was to Golia● , and his Philistims . Who , if they aske me , vpon what hope I presumed , to impleade an Appeale to Caesar : I cannot answere with Solon , vpon old age ; rather , vpon pouerty ; rather , vpon Caesars equity ▪ rather , vpon the causes verity . Yea , my duty to God , to your Maiestie , to the sacred memory of your Royall Father , to the Church of God , to my Mother Church of England , to the State , to my Reuerend Fathers , to my reproached Brethren , all these summon me from my sweete , safe Priuacy , to runne a hazzard vpon the Theater of importune opposition .

And see also , Dread Soueraigne , how deeply You stand ingaged in this Plea . Therein seuen Plaintifes sollicite Your Grace for justice .

First , Truth : she complaines of hard vsage , how shee is driuen to seeke corners , sith shee cannot passe the Presse Cum Priuilegio , but must be silenced , yea Gagged , least , while shee refuseth to subscribe to An Appeale , she should by writing , cleare her Doctrines from the infamous terme of Puritanisme , and her selfe from being reproached for a Puritan .

The next Plaintife , is Gods Glory , Grace , Gospell , complaining they are vndermined , ouerturned , by an Appeale : wherein Gods foundation of his free grace and mercy in electing vs in his Son to saluation , is laid vpon the sandy ground of Mans freewill . his eternall and vnrepentant loue to his Elect , made to depend vpon the haire of humaine mutability , standing on its owne vnsteddy bottome to fall totally , finally .

The third Plaintife , is the Sacred Ashes of Your Royall Father of famous memory , complaining His honor is polluted , prophaned in a high degree by An Appeale , so much depressing the Synod of Dort , which His Maiestie so much graced , and exalting Arminianisme , which His sacred Maiestie so much detested .

The fourth Plaintife , is Gods Church , especially our Mother Church of England , iustly complaining , how impiously she is abused , and her Doctrines traduced , by an Appeale , as if in the very Fundamentalls , ( as Praedestination , Election , Freewill , Iustification , Faith , Perseuerance in sauing grace , Certainty of saluation , and the like ) shee iumped with the Apostatized Church of Rome , and her confederate Arminians : as if her Doctrines were not the same with the holy Scriptures : as if they must be rated by a few priuate spirits , ingrossing , as by a Monopoly , the name of the Church of England , reducing Ecclesia Romana to Curia Romana : as if her Doctrines were as mutable , as their vniust Iudges , who Cameleon like will change colour with euery obiect of time .

The fifth Plaintife is the State , complaining of a ruefull distraction and rent it suffereth , by a most factious and seditious Appeale , which coming very vnseasonably , like a disastrous Comet , portendeth vniuersall ruine both to Church and State , if the vast breach made thereby , for the grand enemy to enter , bee not all the sooner and surer ( if possible ) made vp againe .

The sixth Plaintife is the Ghost of some of the Reuerend forefathers of our Church , as Doctor Bancroft , once Bishop of London , and Doctor Ouerall , once Deane of Pauls , and Bishop of Norwich , complaining , that their speeches in the Conference at Hampton Court ( Ianua. 14. 1603. ) now lately printed , the one about Praedestination , the other , Perseuerance in grace , are pitifully and palpably peruerted in An Appeale , to the great reproach of their owne Credits , and in them , the scandall of the Church of England .

The seuenth Plaintife is the Communion of Saints militant , in this Church , and elswhere ( yea some , now Triumphant in heauen ) complaining , that notwithstanding they striue both in faith and practise to come as neere , as is possible for humaine frailtie , to Christ and his Apostles , yet for that very cause they are persecuted and reproached in An Appeale , with the odious name of Puritan , and what not ?

Now all these Plaintifes , most noble King , do as by speciall interest , craue iustice at Your Maiesties hands . Truth claimes it , as You are King of England , Defender of the faith ; that as It makes You free , so You would it , with full priuiledge to plead its owne cause . Gods glory claimes it of You , as whom ( aboue all Princes in Christendome ) He hath put such a rich crowne of grace and glory vpon , that thereby Your Maiestie might learne how highly to prize His infinite glory , which the more You stand for against its enemies , the more firmely it shall make You to stand against all Your Aduersaries . The Sacred Ashes of Your royall Father of pious memory require justice of You , not onely as you are a King , but as the most pious Son of such a Father , that as by An Appeale , You are called to be an vmpire , You would accordingly determine , whither in Your judgement the Synod of Dort , with the Decrees of it , be rather to be reiected , and set at nought , for the Appealers vilifying and disclaming of it : or religiously maintained by Your Maiestie , at least for the incomparable judgement of King IAMES , who both sent thither a learned select representatiue Church of England , and Himselfe also gaue His royall assent to all the conclusions of it , as being in all points consonant to the Doctrine of the Church of England . The Church of England , with the State ( like Hipocrates twinnes , mutually affected with each others weale or woe , both liuing together , both dying together ) with one heart and voyce humbly craue justice of Your Maiestie , as being next vnder Christ ouer both , in all causes , ouer all persons , the onely supreme Gouernour ; that You would chastise their contumacious children , who fasten reproaches , and hasten ruines to both . The fame of our Forefathers craveth justice of Your Maiestie , to free them from the false aspersion of blasphemy , and from the opinion of being Arminians . All Gods children , co-heires with Your Maiestie of the same Kingdome of glory , implore Your iustice , to rescue their innocency from the reproach of Puritanisme , the very name , being enough to cause Truth to be taken for Heresie ; sincerity , for hypocrisy ; a peaceable Conformitant , for a seditious Schismaticke ; a loyall subiect , for a traitor ; an honest man , for a varlet .

Thus by iustice , shall Your Maiesties throne be established . Thus may fearefull consequents bee preuented , if the causes be timely remoued . I reade but of two maine things , which wrought Ierusalems wracke : the one , Idolatry , causing often desolations , and miseries vpon that Church and state : the other , Heresy , in reiecting of Christ , and his righteousnesse , seeking iustification by workes . This later alone , euen without the other ( for in Christs time , and after , not an Idol , or Image was found in Iudea ) caused that fatall and finall irreparable ruine , once for all .

Parallel to these two , are Pontifician Idolatry , and Arminian Heresy , the summe whereof is to abolish the true , and to establish a new Religion . For the first , it is grosse enough to bewray it selfe , and to deserue to bee cast out , least such lading not onely cause , but conspire with the storme to drowne the ship it is carried in . For the second ( because it is somewhat more refined , and hath learned to goe vailed vnder the Maske of the Church of England ; the more dangerous both for seducement and sedition ; as a poyson , the more subtile , the more mortall ) be your Maiestie pleased to take aduertisment of the more proper markes of an Arminian . An Arminian is in his personall qualities , just like his Religion . First , he is no lesse ambitious of head-ship ouer men , then his Religion is of copartnership ( at least ) with God , in His glory . Secondly , as his Religion flatters him , so he men ; very officious in soothlesse soothings , the Spaniels , that finde his ambition game . Thirdly , as his religion is contrary , so hee cannot away with Reformed Churches , and their learnedest and foundest writers , as Caluin specially beyond the Seas . Fourthly , as he hates to be reformed , so one peece of his Sermon must be an inuectiue against a reformed Christian , his Puritan . Fifthly , sith his Religion complies so well with Popery , he will therefore euer preferre the Church of Rome before any , yea , all Reformed Churches . Sixthly though he loue to be a droane , yet brings he a kinde of honey to Preferments hiue . And he is now so fleshed with confidence , that ( as euery where abroad ) hee will more frankly at Court make the theames of his Sermons to be , Uniuersall grace , equally offered to all , to receiue if they will : when a man hath receiued grace , he may fall away totally , yea , finally from that grace of God and iustification : Hee teacheth also , that man can haue no other certainty of saluation , but coniecturall : that God hath predestinated none to glory , but those , whom hee foresaw would both by their Freewill receiue grace , and would or could of themselues perseuere to the end : that in the maine and fundamentall points of religion , the Doctrine of the Church of England agreeth with the Councell of Trent . These , and the like , bee the Doctrines of the Appeale ; which how true , this insuing Plea will plainly shew .

Pardon my plaine zeale , gratious Prince . The Romaines despised not the noyse of their geese , whereby their Capitol was preserued from the Gaules . Let mee be accounted one of them for telling truth , so our dangers may thereby bee preuented . Yea , those geese were highly rewarded : I desire no other , but that I may bee a common sharer in those blessings , which shall attend both Church and State , if but those Plaintifs bee righted , whose satisfaction shall bee Your Maiesties honour , the setling of Your Crowne , the comfort of Your best friends , the confusion of Your greatest foes , the retaining of Gods fauour vpon Your Maiesties Person for grace , peace and prosperity here , for glory and immortality hereafter : for all which , I shall be , as I am euer bound ,

Your Maiesties most humble Orator , though vnworthy seruant , HENRY BVRTON .
The Preface to the Reader .

CHristian Reader , I present thee here with a Plea to an Appeale . That Appeale I meane styled , An Appeale to Cesar. Which is such , as I confesse ( sauing for the Titles , wherein I find the Sacred name of Cesar ) I had filed my feete , rather then my hands with it , if after my long frustrate expectation of seeing it burned , I had not , to my great wonderment , seene the contrary , namely , that it found so many friends and favorites . Besides sundry things therein , which at first might haue passed onely for errours , as falling from some distemper of hastie passion : being now stoutly and stiffly , in cold blood , defended , they grow to be flat heresies , and so no further to be tollerated , as S. Augustine speaketh . For my owne part , when I perused the booke , my spirit was not a little stirred in me , to see Gods glory defaced , our Salvation vndermined , our Church scandalized , and popish Arminianisme triumphing , even vpon the open Theater . Faine would I haue beene dealing with it , but both the consciousnes of my many both naturall disabilities , and personall infirmities , as also the hope I had of so many my worthy and able elder brethren ( who I trusted would , and still hope will , vindicate at least their deare Mothers credit , the Church of England ) held me backe . Notwithstanding at last ( though the least of all ) I gaue the on-set ( nec tardum opperiens , nec praecedentibus instans ) as , well knowing , that Hosanna is accepted of Christ , as well from the mouthes of little children , as of others ; Yea , and sometimes , ( if those should hold their peace , the very stones would cry . And where as not only my personall imperfections , but my naturall corruptions also stood vp to disswade me from such a Taske : yet even from them also , did I draw motiues vnto it . First , because I thought my example of shewing willingnesse to my weaknesse , might provoke the more able , to be the more willing to supply my wants . Secondly , out of the sense and conscience of my many corruptions , that Law in my members , leading me ( miserable ! ) captiue to the law of sinne ; having such abundant experience of that superabundant grace of God , which hath mightily borne me vp even against the streame of rebellious nature , so that when my foote slipped , his mercy held me vp : I have learned hereby how deepely I am bound to expresse my thankfulnes to God , in setting forth to the vttermost of my power , the praise of the glory of his Grace , sufficient for me , against those thornes in my flesh , against those buffering messengers of Satan , threatning to overthrow me , if the Lords never fayling grace had not made me to stand . Yea how many stormes of temptations hath my brittle barke indured , yet blessed be God , it is not wracked . Those Reliques of rebellious Canaanites dwelling in me , as thornes in my side , and pricks in myne eyes , by Gods grace humble me onely , overcome me not . So that God having put in my hand , such a tryed weapon of infallible experience of his saving grace : I should be very ingratefull to let it lie rusting in the sheath , and not to use it with my best strength , courage and skill , against the adversary of this grace , who saith , that the Child of God ma● fall away totally , and possibly also finally from grace and justification . Which one Heresy overthroweth the whole tenure and truth of the Gospell ; it turneth vpside downe the very foundation of our salvation , grounded vpon Gods eternall loue , in Electing and Predestinating vs in Christ to Grace and Glory , those gifts and calling of God without repentance ; it revineth ( directly in part , and by consequence , altogether ) that wicked heresy of the Pelagians , noted by the Reverend Bishop of Chichester , and the worshipfull M. Francis Rovs , two noble champions of Gods Truth ; it comes close vp also to make a league with the Councel of Trent , to truck with Rome , in all that fard●ll of Apostaticall doctrines , packed vp in the sixt Session of it , as of Freewill , Iustification , Predestination , Cortaintie of salvation , Perseverance in grace &c. In which poynts and many more of that nature , coincident to the doctrine of Iustification , the subiect of that whole Session , I had ( I confesse ) formerly taken some paynes , in setting downe the true difference betweene vs , and the Church of Rome , in this mayne fundamentall . And having the Treatise by me , already finished , and priviledged also , ( while the season served ) for the Presse , onely prvented by the last visitation : I haue ben the more willing to take this new occasion to borrow at least some Artillery from that greater worke , to encounter these fresh Assaults , made against the Truth .

And see , how the same motiue , that put me vpon the former worke , hath drawne me also to this . Shall I tell the plaine truth ? Why not ? But I must name Doctor Francis White then , and discover something , which passed betweene him and me in private . But this I hope shall not violate the Law of fidelity , sith I shall say no more , but what himselfe , in his Approbation prefixed to the Appeale , hath not stuck to make open profession of to the world . It is this , I having about foure yeares agoe , taken a thorow survey of the sixt Session of the Councel of Trent , and finding therein Romes Apostacy from the faith of Christ cunningly couched : I tooke occasion ( simply suspecting nothing , as then ) to goe to the said Doctor , wishing he would vndertake so worthy a Taske , as to declare fully the true difference betweene vs and the Church of Rome , in the doctrine of Iustification , according to the Councel of Trent . But his answer was , that the difference was but small between vs . I wondring at his answere , No Sir , said I , then let vs shake hands with them , and be good friends . For on this foundation stands the maine fabrick of Romes Religion , consisting in humaine satisfactions and merits , all devised to fill vp the vast emptines of their Iustification , from which Roote they all , as branches , doe receiue life and growth . Yet to be sure , another time I propounded the same question vnto him ; his answere was the same ; and so was my reply .

Hereupon , farre aboue my strength , I tooke courage to attempt that taske my selfe , leuelled against Pontifician and Arminian Doctrines ioyntly all along : and now againe am I no lesse , if not much more , iustly prouoked , to reuiew and reuiue something of that former worke , being spurred thereunto , more ( I confesse ) by Doctor Whites Approbation , then Master Mountagues Appeale . Nor , in such a Cause , am I a whit moued with the name and fame of Doctor White . He is a learned man , I confesse ; but Truth is better learned . Hee is an ancient graue Diuine , crowned with an hoary venerablenesse ; true : but Salomon saith , The hoary head is a crowne of glory , if it be found in the way of righteousnesse . And howsoeuer the world may value Truth according to personall respects : yet God is no Accepter of persons . My brethren ( saith Saint Iames ) haue not the faith of our Lord Iesus Christ , the Lord of glory , with respect of persons . He condemnes those , that in points of faith , preferres the Gold-ring , Tertul de Praescript aduersus hareticos . lib●●●●● mi●●●● . the soft or white rayment , before the poore man Tertullian saith , Quid si Episcopus &c. What if a Bishop , if a Deacon , if a Widdow , if a Virgin , if a Doctor , if also a Martyr , shall fall away from the Rule : therefore shall haeresies seen e to obtaine the truth ? Ex personis probamus fidem , an ex fide personas ? Doe we approue the faith by the persons , or the persons by the faith ? Nemo sapiens &c. No man is wise , but hee that is faithfull ; none great , none a Christian. Nemo autem Christianus &c. And no man is a Christian , but hee that shall perseuere vnto the end . Auolent , quantum volent , paleae leuis fidei &c. Let the chaffe of light faith fly away as fast as they will , with euery breath of temptation , the cleaner heape of graine shall be laide vp in the Lords Garner . Nonne &c. Did not some of the Lords Disciples forsake him , being scandalized , and offended with his Doctrine ? Yea was not Iudas the Traitor one of the twelue Apostles ? What then , if any great Doctor , yea or Bishop fall away from the faith , they once professed ? Is this a sufficient proofe , that Gods saints may fall away totally or finally from sauing grace and iustification ? Will any Appealer , or his Approuers make this good by their owne examples of falling away ? No , saith Saint Iohn , cited by Tertullian in the foresaid place , Phigellus , Hermogenes , Philetus , and Hymeneus forsooke the faith ; they went out from vs , but they were not of vs ; for if they had beene of vs , they would no doubt haue continued with vs ; but they went out , that they might bee made manifest , that they were not all of vs . And why went they out ? Saint Iohn a little before admonisheth Gods children to beware of the loue of the world ; whereupon he giueth them examples of Apostates ; inferring , that the loue of the world drew them away . Demas forsooke Paul , and imbraced this present world . So easie a thing is it for a louer of the world to fall into all heresy , the God of this world hauing blinded his eyes ? Therefore when we see a starre shoote , as the vulgar call it : doe we , as they , thinke it to be a very starre , falling from the firmament ? Nothing lesse . We know it to be nothing else , but an earthy slime , falling to the earth , whence it ascended in a vapour . For earth will to earth . Stella cadens non est stella , cometa suit . Such acry vapours then , when you see ambitiously mounting aloft towards the vpper part of the lowest heauen , well may they shine there for a time like starres , but maruaile not when you see them fall backe againe ; they were no true starres . Sacerdotium , quod intus cecidit , diu foris stare non potest . It was Gregory the greats saying of ambitious simoniacks . Was Iudas once in the state of grace & iustification , because he was an Apostle ? Indeede Andreas Vega , 〈…〉 one of the champions of the Trent Councell , puts him downe f●● an in instance , that the Elect may fall away finally from grace : because Christ said , Haue not I chosen you twelue ? Iudas then ( saith he ) was one of the Elect. But as Saint Augustine answereth well , it is one thing to be elected to the office of Apostleship , another , to the fellowship of the Quaest. super 〈◊〉 . 1. qu. 117. 〈◊〉 4. and in Psal. 55. Saints . For there is , as a twofold vocation , so a twofold election ; externall , and internall ; temporary , and eternall . Iudas was of the externall and temporary , but not of the internall and eternall election . For of this , Christ said elsewhere , I speake not of you all ; I know whom I haue chosen . There Christ puts a plaine difference between Iudas an elect Apostle , & the rest , who were also elect Saints . But how came Iudas , an elect Apostle , to fall away ? hee was a theefe , and bare the bagge . Yet he b●ught not his Apostleship , he was elected by Christ . He had a faire , and lawfu●l calling . Yet his coueteousnesse brought him to Apostacy , and euen to betray the innocent blood of the Lambe of God . Then wonder not at the Church of England . The sa●e Rebecca brought forth as well a rough Esau , as a smo●th Iacob . And , as Tertullian saith to the same purpose , Of the kernell of the milde , and fat , and vsefull oliue , doth spring the rough wilde oliue : and of the most pleasant , and sweete figges seede , doth grow the windy , and empty wilde figtree . So heresies ( saith hee ) haue fructisied of that , which was ours , but they are not ours , being degenerate from the graine of truth , and by lyes become wilde . They went out from vs , but they were not of vs . What then , if wee shall see some of the Apostles , or such as would bee accounted Apostolicall , to proue Apostaticall from the faith ? shall this stumble Gods Saints ? Or shall an impotent admiration of their persons draw beliefe to their heresies ? God forbid . For as the same Tertullian Tertul ibid. ( for I finde not an acuter authour for this purpose ) comparing champion-like hereticks to wrastlers , or sword players , which many times ouercome , not by their owne strength , but by the others weaknesse : no otherwise ( saith he ) doe heresies preuaile ouer the infirmities of men , but haue no power at all vpon a sound faith . Yea , of what qualitie or dignity soeuer hereticks be , whether for personall , or politicall respects , the holy Ghost warnes the Saints to auoid , and contemne them . Auoide an hereticke , saith the Apostle . And St. Iohn , 2. Iohn 10. If there come any vnto you , that brings you not this Doctrine , receiue him not to your house , neither bid him God-speede : for hee that biddeth him God-speede , is partaker of his euill deedes . And Saint Paul doubles his admonition , If an Angel from heauen preach vnto you any other Gal. 〈◊〉 . Gospell , then that which we haue preached vnto you , let him be accursed ; which is not another Gospell ; but there be some that trouble you , and would pervert the Gospell of Christ . Into this condemnation be the new Pontifician Arminian ( shall I say Hereticks ? I need not , if they persist ; I will not , if they * * As Master Mountag●● hath fairly promised , laying , though he may erre , yet he will be no Hereticke , especially against the Church of England Appeale c 1. p. 4. & p. 9. recant , and desist ) Approvers of the Councel of Trent fallen : the doctrine whereof is a fowle and flat Apostacy from the Mystery of godlines . They would bring in another Gospell , though no Gospell , but they would obtrude it far the true and only Gospell of the Grace of God . And if the Galatians were said to be fallen from Christ , onely for mingling Circumcision with the Gospel , as requisite with faith to their iustification : how fearefull is that Apostacy from Christ , which quite ouerthroweth the effectuall and free grace of God , excluding , yea , accursing the true sauing faith , in our iustification , as the Doctrine of Trent doth ; so dangerous it is , to be any way accessary by yeelding the least assent vnto it . And what execrable heresies will these proue to be , that goe about to pluck vp the tree of life , by the roote , out of the Paradise of Gods Church , and would plant instecde thereof , the forbidden tree of knowledge , teaching and perswading the eaters , that they are made thereby as Gods , selfe-sufficient , selfe-wise , selfe-able to saue themselues , not onely in their receiuing , but retaining grace , which worke of their owne wills being foreseene of God , was ( say they ) the first mouing cause of electing and praedestinaring them to saluation ? which what is it else , but a meere making voide of Gods vnchangable Decree of Praedestination , and free grace of Election , no farther fixed and certaine , but as mans receiuing and retaining of grace , and perseuering therein is certaine , which ( say they ) is vncertaine .

Pardon my zeale , gentle Reader . Impute it not to any bitternesse of spleene . I beare it not to any mans person liuing , God is my record , much lesse to the Authours of the Appeale , and the Approbation . I know none whom I hate more , then my sinfull selfe . But the Lord knowes , it is no small greife to me , that I am thus forced to sharpen my style . Which if it seeme tarter to thy Palate , then may sure with Christian moderation and modesty : examine I pray thee , whether the long custome of Court-smoothing , and eare-pleasing , specially in Diuine matters , haue not bred such a delicacy in the soules tast , as that downe right zeale for Gods glory , can hardly finde a slomack to take it downe , or digest it , but is reiected as a bitter pill , or potion , of such Patients , as account the remedy worse then the disease . Zeale will not passe now but for fury , or rude incinility , at the best . But ab initio non erat sic . In old time , it was lawfull to call a spade , a spade . Saint Peter dealt roundly Acts 〈◊〉 . with Simon Magus for his Simony , Thy money perish Acts 13. with thee . How sharpe was Paul with Elimas the Sorcerer , for going about to turne away the Deputy fion the faith ? O full of all subtilty , and all mischiefe , thou child of the Deuill , thou enemy of all righteousnesse &c. And what would he haue said ( trow we ) to those men , who goe about to turne away , not a Deputy , but a whole kingdome , & a well settled flourishing Church , from the faith ? What if they were graue & learned Diuines ? So much the worse . If an enemy had , done this , it had ben more tolerable ; but it was euen thou , my guide , and familiar freind . I will not adde Dauids imprecation , but rather aduise them , as Peter did Simon , to pray , that if it be possible , the sinne , not of their heart onely , but of their hand , may be forgiuen . How did Paul , though but a young Apostle , reproue the prime Apostle Peter , onely for a matter of dissimulation in his conuersation , not any default in his preaching ? And shall wee not zealously resist those to the face , that , no● now dissemblingly anymore , but with open profession , approue , auow , & stafly maintaine grosse and greiuous heresies , deuised by the Deuil , to betray Gods glory , and mans saluation ? That sticke not to call the Doctrinas of Pradestination , freewill , and the like , Scholasticall speculations meerely , questions of obscurity , not fit for pulpits , and popular eares ; but procuring rather discord and troubles in Church and State , then serue to edification , &c. ( Appeale pag. 42. 78. 80. ) Which speeches , and the like , whether doe they tend , but to suppresse those Doctrines of the Gospell , whereby God is most glorified , and man most humbled ? shall we spare such ? When Policarpus met Marcion the hereticke casually , Euseb. lib. 4 cap. 14. and neglecting him , was asked of him , Dost thou not know vs ? He replyed , I know thee for the Diuels eldest childe . Such was the zeale of holy men in times past , against , not onely those that were Hereticks , but hinderers of the truth . The Apostle wished , that those false teachers of legall righteousnesse , were euen cut off , which troubled the Church of Galatia . Therefore what cause any faithfull Minister of Christ hath to vse sharpnesse of stile to seditious seducers , and troublers of Church and State , in so famous a Kingdome , in so perilous a season too , let any indifferent man iudge .

And consider iudicious Reader , if we had not a King , seasoned from his very cradle with the knowledge of the true faith of Christ , hauing now growne vp therein to a goodly ripenesse , in regard whereof we haue small cause to suspect his constancy herein : i●to what danger were we , and Gods religion brought , when such kind of Ministers are not wanting to helpe forward the reerecting of the Romish Baal in our Land , had they but a young Manasses to restore the Altars and Groues , which the good King Ezechiah his Father had pulled downe ?

But to conclude : sith these two fore named Worthies , worthy to be named againe , the Reuerend Bishop of Chichester , Dostor Carlton , and the Worshipfull Maister Francis Rovs , haue so learnedly and zealously confuted some materiall points in the Appeale ( which like expert archers , making speciall choyse of for their marke , they haue hit home ) although I could haue wished , that they had with no lesse felicity coped with the rest of the materialls in the booke : yet sith they haue ben pleased to leaue behind them some liberall gleanings , yea some whole ricks of tares to be cut vp , and carried away from Gods wheat field : I will craue leaue , to shew at least my good will in all , hoping my defects will finde pardon of all them , who though they can , yet forbeare to make their best supply . The blasphemer was to be stoned of the whole Congregation , some hitting one part , some another , till he were beaten downe , and buried vnder the heape .

Yet in this Impression , the Plea reacheth no farther , then the first part of the Appeale . Which if it finde courteous intertainment , the other part is forth comming , and wants but time , to helpe the slownesse of the Presse to bring it forth . Farewell .

Thine in the Lord , H. B.

Good Reader , correct these faults with thy pen , with others of smaller note . The rest are noted in the end of the booke . Amend first , then reade .

Page 7 , line 19 , reade scantling . l. 28 , r. Doctrines . p. 51 , l. 13. r. preuifion p. 52 , l 6 , r. ●ss●s . p. 54. l. 21. r. 4. 5. l. 29 , r. s●●scos . p. 82. l. 3 , 1. ●●●●●ude 10. l. 9 , 1. vn 〈◊〉 &c. Whence . l. 13 , 1. anima . l. 24 , 1. pr●●●ceth . p. 83 , l. 15 , r. the beginn●ng p. 84. l. 35 , 1. into him . p. 85 , l. 24 , r. quomodo . p. 87 l , 13 , 1. ●xecrated . p. 91 , l. 30 , 1 ground of hope . l. 35 , r. his Maiesties .

A PLEA TO AN APPEALE . Asotus . Babylonius . Orthodoxus . ASotus .

Master Babylonius you are well met .

Babylonius .

And you Master Asotus .

Asotus .

Sir I thanke you for your last good company at the Ordinary ; and especially for your both merry and learned discourse ; wherein , among other passages , you wittilie disciphered the nature of a Puritan , that common opposite to vs both . I was much delighted to heare you , and haue often thought of you since , and shall loue you the better for it : for of all men I cannot away with these Puritans , a precise sect , crosse and contrary to all other men . A man may not sweare an oath ( forsooth ) nor play the good fellow a little , in drinking a cup or two more then needs , for good fellowship-sake , nor loue a wench , and the like , but wee must passe their most sharpe censure . Nay , hauing deeply waighed the matter , I am perswaded , that were it not for these Puritans , wee and you should agree together , as louing brethren , and Countreymen .

Babylonius .

Are you aduised of that , friend Asotus ? you haue hit the very nayle on the head ; and herein you discouer your wisdome , and judgement . For it were no hard matter ( I wis ) to reconcile you and mee , and such as wee are , as well in Religion and opinion , as we are already in affection , were it not for these make-bate Puritans . And you haue well said , in saying , we and you : for , howsoeuer , the Puritans , both in England and beyond the seas ( I meane , the Caluinists and Hugenots ) are called Protestants ; yet betweene them and vs Romane Catholicks , there is a great Gulfe set , so that there is no hope of reconciliation betweene vs . And indeed ; for those ciuill and good fellow Protestants ( whom I know you meane ) that hold of the Church of England , and of the Doctrine of the Church for the prop and piller of their Faith ; there is great hope , that they will , ere long , be reconciled to the holy mother Church of Rome : for , he that beleeueth as the Church beleeueth , is not farre from the kingdome of God . But these Puritans , they will not acknowledge any rule of faith from the Church , but are all for Scriptures , Scriptures : so that so long as they are of that minde , there is no hope of reconciliation betweene vs and them ; vnlesse they will yeeld to this Manime , That the Church is the Iudge and interpreter of the Scriptures ; which they most obstinately deny .

Asotus .

But , by your leaue , Master Babylonius ; I neuer vnderstood , but that the Doctrine of the Church of England , was all one with the Doctrine of the Scriptures ; as I euer haue ben taught .

Babylonius .

I will not take vpon me now to dispute that point : but haue you not seene an excellent Booke , set out of late , by one of your most learned Ministers , which he calls , his Appeale to Caesar.

Asotus .

I haue heard of it ; the Author is highly commended by some for a great Scholler : but a great many on the other side , and especially those we call Puritans , doe very much condemne the booke ; saying , it is written in the gall of bitternesse , and with the spirit of sedition , enough to set all in a combustion , if his books should passe for currant .

Babylonius .

In the gall of bitternesse : That was the doome of Saint Peter vpon Simon Magus : but by such like puritanicall censures , you may the better judge of the worthinesse of the booke , which is both learnedly and wittily pend .

Asotus .

You say well , I thinke neuer a whit the worse of the booke , for the Puritans taxing of it ; nor the Author the lesse learned , when you Master Babylonius sticke not so to commend him .

Babylonius .

I must needs ingenuously confesse , that I like the booke the better , because it plagues the Puritans , and plots a reconciliation betweene vs and you .

Asotus .

Wee agree in that ; But , sith you so much commend the booke , and so much rumor runnes of it , I will goe cast away one couple of shillings vpon it .

Babylonius .

Friend Asotus , though I would not preuent you of buying so worthy a booke , yet for this time , I will lend it you ; here it is , read it , then as you like , buy it .

Asotus .

Sir I accept it thankfully . Let mee a little peruse it .

Babylonius .

Freely .

Asotus .

Appello Caesarem &c. But I find here Doctor Whites approbation prefixed to it , which I must tell you , Master Babylonius , doth make me much maruell , that you so much commend the booke ; for you know what a publicke adversary hee hath ben to Romane Catholicks ; so that I should imagine , this booke , which Doctor White so much approueth , is more an aduersary to Romane Catholiques , then to our home-bred Puritans .

Babylonius .

Yea , but you must know Master Asotus , it is one thing what a man saith in publicke , for popular applause , and salary ; and another , what he thinketh in his owne priuate opinion and conscience . As the Mathematician cited by Saint Aug: said to his wife , disciplining her for abusing his art for wantonnesse , shee imputing her lightnesse to the aspect of Venus , and that he should beate Venus , not her for it . It is one thing what I do Aliud est , quod competit Rectori , aliud , quod prosertur emptori . as a gouernour of my wife , another , what I vent to the buyer for the maintenance of my life . Doctor White is a good wiseman , & knoweth how to attemper himselfe to the times : It is lesse enuie to passe his judgment , vnder anothers name , which he thought not so fit in his owne .

Asotus .

But in Law , if there be any default , the Accessary is no lesse guiltie then the Principall , the Receauer then the Thiefe .

Babylonius .

True ; but here the case is different . For say , the booke containes matter vnapprouoble to many , yet Doctor White if he se occasion , may easily winde himselfe out of the snare ; as I heare he doth already , saying , That the Copie printed varieth from that which hee approued . Blame him not , till the booke ( as happily , and hopefully it will ) get better footing in the worlds affection , and good will . In the meanetime , it is good pollicy a little to pull in the hornes : For it is obiected by the Puritan faction , that Master Mountagues former booke , called his Gag , which his Appeale defendeth , doth in many particulars containe expresse contrarieties to the Doctrine of the Church of England : and consequently his Appeale , with the factors and abettors , as Accessaries at least , come within the compasse of a Premunire . But you know these pestilent Puritans will say , and make the worst of things ; and they are a strong faction . And perhaps the buzze may somewhat possesse the good old man with a panicke feare , least not onely hee loose what hee hath , but which is much more , what his many merits may hope for , sauing that Saints merits are not so high flowne in the Church of England , but they are easily ouersoared by Simon Magus , flying to the top of euery pinnacle of the highest Temple , vpon Angels wings . But for the booke , I doe not hold it so greatly blame worthy , as finding it a faire and towardly beginning , to produce in time most hopefull consequents ; ( as they say , Rome . was not built in one day ) but let me a little excuse the good old man And the rather , because the Puritans sticke not to cast him in the teeth with White dyed blacke : which colour ( say they ) comming from the fatt of a Romane Catholick Dyer , would not haue holden soe sure , if it had not found the ground of a selfe-woading , to make it the more permanent . Yet the Appealer ( I can tell you ) hath faire Cards on his sides , and almost all the Helps ; for the fiue-fingers being the Club-trump turnd vp . The first Card dealt him ; is the best help but one . Yea all the Cards in his hand are blacke , and hee hath a faire pull to rubbe , for his ase colours for it , puting his Appello in good hope . But the mischiefe is , after much hard drawing , his Ase proues a Spade . Well : yet he hath a strong hand of the best Coates ; and what hee cannot doe by strong hand with Clubbs , hee hopes to play his part with the vndermining Spade , whereof he is well stored . Onely he misseth the Ase of Hearts , which some make an embleme of truth , being alwaies a Helpe whatsoeuer is trumpe ; nor hath he any of that colour . But hee well hopes that Helpe sleepeth ; as also the rubb-ase● which if his aduerse part haue not , he doubts not , but the game will go cock-sure on his side , with his number of Coates . Pardon mee this comparison . I was late the last night at . Maw , with two or three faire Ladies .

Asotus .

And I could haue wished to haue beene so happy as to haue borne you company ; But is it lawfull for those of your Order to play at Cards ?

Babylonius .

Lawfull ? Doth not the Apostle say , All things are lawfull ?

Asotus .

But he addes withall , All things are not expedient , all things edifie not .

Babylonius .

But the same Apostle saith elsewhere , I became all things to all men , that I might win the more .

Asotus .

Yea , to saue some ; but what was that with Card-play ?

Babylonius .

Come , now you play the Puritan . But , is it not more to gaine , then to saue ?

Asotus .

But , there is a gaining to a mans losse ; For what shall it profit a man , if he shall gaine the whole world , and loose his owne soule ?

Babylonius .

On my soule , I thinke you will turne Puritan .

Asotus .

Ha , ha , ha .

Babylonius .

But wee gaine the world to the Church ; wherein the world is saued , as the Beasts were in Noah : Arke , which were therefore saued to be foode for Noah , who was then the Priest .

Asotus .

You reason very learnedly ad oppositum .

Babylonius .

But in a word friend Asotus , we of our holy Order and Societie , howsoeuer in our Cells and Cloysters , we liue strictly , obseruing the ancient Cannons of Priests : yet conuersing , here amidst many Wolues ; I meane the vengeable Puritans , which are stil pressing the Lawes against vs , we are faine to be wise as serpents , and to put on all habits and fashions ; yea , euen those of Russians and Roring-boyes , that so wee may not appeare to be those Sheepe whom the Wolues seeke to deuoure .

Asotus .

Now you say something ; I commend your wit ; but I know not how this stands with honestie . Should ye not also be innocent as doues ?

Babylonius .

Tush man , wee must doe as wee may ; and in case of necessity , dispence with honestie for spirituall aduantage .

Asotus .

Well , these be Paradoxes . But to returne to your former matter concerning this booke , mee thinkes you tell strange things of it .

Babylonius .

Strange things ? I tell you , you shall finde it a most rare booke , written with a braue authoritie , and with a most lofty spirit : mee thinkes he writes as if he were the very Or●elo of the Church of England , as the Popes Holinesse is the Oracle of the World . O that hee were but one of our holy Society ! which if hee were , our discipline within a short time would so season him , as hee would proue a most accomplished actiue instrument for the Catholicke cause . He is full of mettall , and he wants but the stampe of our minte to make it current . O the gratefull tartnesse , and smartnesse of his stile ! And such is the dexteritie of his wit , that in his Limbecke he can easily draw and distill all learning into the quintessence of his For example . owne singular , and rare opinions . Let him but conceiue a rare notion , and by and by the Church of England either saith it ; or not expresly denying it , or being altogether silent , he can easilie conclude , silence to be consent . Yea , he is strong as Sampson ; for when he is disposed , neither the Philistines cords of the Councell of Dore , which hee tramples as durt ; nor yet of his Dalilah , his Church of England , can hold him , further then himselfe pleaseth . Oh , I am euen rauished with the loue of the man : hee hath dared and damped all the Puritans in England . Doe but goe on , and reade the Contents , which will giue you some scanting of the substance of the booke .

Asotus .

I doe . I finde here many things , the contrarie whereof I haue heard our Minister publikely teach , and that with no lesse vehemencie , then plaine euidence of argument from Scriptures and Fathers ; at least to the conuincing of my simple iudgement .

Babylonius .

I would your Minister were here present , whosoeuer he be ; you should see what hee could say to many points maintained in this booke ; they being also the very Doctrine of our holy mother Church of Rome at this day , and those also fundamentall ; as of Free-will , Praedestination , Iustification , Falling from grace , Certaintie of saluation , Antichrist , and the like .

Asotus .

And you wish in a very good time ; for if I be not deceiued , yonder hee is walking ; shall wee goe neere him , and accost him ?

Babylonius .

With a good will . But by the way , I pray you informe me a little of the qualities and conditions of the man , that so I may the better attemper my speech , and cariage towards him ; is he not a Puritan ?

Asotus .

Surely , in one sence he is no Puritan , for he is conformable ; none of the refractaries , but doth both practise himselfe , and preach vpon occasion , in the defence of Ecclesiasticall ceremonies , and that very earnestly ; insomuch as I haue seene him sometimes , put backe from the Communion those , which would not receiue it kn●eling ; yet not leauing them , till he brought them on their knees . Now formerly , Non conformitants onely , were accounted Puritans . But if wee vnderstand Puritan in a second degree , to wit , for a Minister to be a diligent Preacher , and resident vpon his charge ; one that cannot away with non-residency , that will not take two Benefices , and makes conscience how he comes by one ; that is of an honest conuersation , and is a very sincere rebuker of sinne ; an vrger of the more strict keeping of the Lords day as he vsually calleth it ; and rather content to suffer wrong in his tithes , then contentions for his right : and aboue all , a vehement inueigher against the Masse , and all the Idolatries and Superstitions of the Church of Rome , as he tearmes them ; and one , who I warrant you would neuer giue his consent , that Iesuites and Masse-Priests should bee any way tollerated to liue vp and downe in our Land ( insomuch as I haue heard , he being desired to be in a place , where it was appointed , and so expected , that Father Fisher should dispute , & when all came to all hearing Fisher refused to dispute , without speciall licence from the Arch-bishop of Cant●rbury : hee replyed and said , Master Fisher , I maruaile by what licence you goe vp and downe seducing our simple people ; and yet you want a licenc● to dispute with our learned Diuines . It is pittie , such as you are thus suffered to vndermine soules and states , and so to proue the bane of our Kingdome and Church , sith for your sakes ( if we had no other sins ) and for your abominable idols ( the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place , where it ought not ) we are exposed and indangered to all those plagues and punishments , which we haue partly felt , and haue much more cause to feare and expect , which 〈◊〉 most 〈◊〉 flames must 〈◊〉 breake forth from the kindled 〈◊〉 of Gods spouse-like iealousie to our consumption , if ye may be but suffered thus to set your Dagon , check by i●wle in c●rrinall-ship with Gods Arke in this his pure Church . ) Now ( Master Babylonius ) how far is he a Puritan in these respects , I leaue to judge .

Babylonius .

How ? Can there be a more pestilent Puritan in all the Packe , then such a one ? But now you haue informed me thus much of the man , I will tell you after what manner I thinke it fit to deale with him . By no meanes must he perceiue what profession I am off . For then ten to one hee will fall foule vpon me , and so wee short of our purpose , which is , to try what he can say against this booke : Therefore wee will onely by way of question , as for your resolution sake , see how he can answer some of the most materiall things therein . And for the manner of dealing with him , let me alone ; onely giue you the occasion , and first on-set .

Asotus

With a good will . I applaude your prudence herein . God giue you good morrow Master Orthodoxus .

Orthodoxus

And you neighbour Asotus ,

Asotus .

Sir , you are very well met ; for this gentleman and I haue accidentally light vpon a booke , wherein I finde sundry things maintained , contrary to that I haue heard of you ; and wee shall be much beholden to you to resolue vs in some points , which doe a little stumble vs .

Orthodoxus .

Neighbour Asotus , I am glad to heare you make such a motion to me , it being no vsuall thing with you , nor many others , ( and more is the pitty ) once to moue a question of conscience or faith to your Minister , vnlesse it bee more for cauill and contention , then for Christian resolution : Therefore seeing you seeme to doe it out of a good desire to be informed in the truth ; and propose such questions , as concerne those Doctrines which I haue publikely taught , I hold it my dutie to satisfie you the best I can . As for this Gentleman , ( a● it seemes your friend ) if hee be of the same minde herein , with you , though he be a stranger to me , yet I shall not be curious , but deale ingenuously with you both ; and I pray God giue a good issue to our meeting , in directing vs in the way of his truth .

Babylonius .

Sir , wee both thanke you for your courtesie .

Orthodoxus .

Sir , it is my duty . But , neighbour , what booke is that you speake of ?

Asotus .

Sir , the Title of it is in Latin , which I vnderstand not so well , Appello Casarem .

Orthodoxus .

O , I know the booke .

Asotus .

I pray you Sir , what thinke you of it ?

Orthodoxus .

Nay pardon me for that ; I doe not take vpon mee to be a censurer of bookes , much lesse of an Appeale to Caesar : if the Author haue any just cause for which to Appeal● to Caesar , and which is just , and fit for Caesar to judge , no doubt but hee shall finde a just Caesar to doe him right . But the points you seeme to propose to me , are matters of Faith , wherein the Author seemeth too suspicious of his owne cause , that ( like to fraudulent Merchants , who haue run themselues into many mens debt , and danger ) hee appeales to Caesar to haue a protection for his person . But blessed be God , wee haue a Caesar , The Defender of the Faith ; not a protector of oppugners and vnderminers of the Faith . And for matters of Faith , our Caesar knowes they ought to be pleaded onely at Gods barre , and tryed at the Common Law of the holy Land , the Scriptures . Nor will hee giue way for any Prohibition out of any Court of Chancery , or conscience , which may inhibite the proceeding of Gods cause , in Gods Court , by any prerogatiue whatsoeuer . Therefore in such causes , ( causes of Faith I say ) to appeale to Caesar ; giues ( to speake plainly ) a strong suspition of the weakenesse at least of the cause . For so did Heretickes in times past ; to maintaine their heresies , they had no other way , but to patronize themselues vnder Caesars wings . Thus did the Arians so mightilie preuaile against the Orthodox professors , by the onely helpe and authority of Caesar. Not that I impute heresie to the Author of this booke , onely for his appeale to Caesar. Let the booke , like Baal , plead for it selfe .

Asotus .

Sir , you make me begin to suspect something ; Did Hereticks so as you say ? I pray you for my better satisfaction , giue me some example of it .

Orthodoxus .

I will briefly . Constantine the great , he that restored the Church to a generall peace and calme ; sitting at the first Councell of Nice , not as Iudge , but rather as a Minister , ( as himselfe piously confessed ) did for his part ratifie the Councels Decrees against Arius ; yet afterwards , growing old , hee was wonne by a woman , his sister Constantia , and she seduced by a sycophantizing Arian Priest , to recall Arius from banishment , that hee might againe declare his Faith : whereof , comming before the Emperour , he made such a cunning confession ( as formerlie hee had done to the whole Councell of Nice , Rusinus Ecc. hist. lib. 1. cap 11. & Socratas lib. 1. cap 25. homo●ousios for , homousi●s . which he had well nigh imposed vpon by his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in steed of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ) as that the good Emperour ( suspecting no deceit ) tooke it to be in all points the very same with the Councels owne confession ; yet so , as hee referred Arius to the determination of a Councell . But the Emperour not long after dying , Arius with his faction creepe into the fauour and protection of Constantines successors , especially of his sonne Constantins , who was by the same Arian Priest , who had formerly inueagled Constantia about Arius , perswaded to fauour and protect the Arians ; and the rather was the Emperour perswaded by this old Priest , because Constantine had committed to him his last Will and Testament , to deliuer it to his sonne Constantius , which he did . Thus Arius by his Appeale to Caesar , and by the cunning insinua●ion , of his craftie confederate , an old Court Priest , got footing againe ; and had in all likelihood mightilie preuailed , but that God in justice , to that impious impostor , and in mercy to his Church and children , calling the cause into his superiour Court , cut Arius short , by a suddaine and strange infamous iudgement , euen in hot blood , as he was going with all his pompe and traine into the Cathedrall in Constantinople , in despight of the good Bishop Alexander , who all the night before , and that morning continued his earnest supplications to God , prostrate in the Temple , to ●uert and preuent Arius from setting his wicked foote , and proude Standard of triumph against Christ , in that sacred place . His deuout and zealous prayers were heard ; and Arius his infamous death strucke all his traine with a shamefull amazement , and confusion . I would this example might teach the Appealler to tremble before that God , from whose Tribunall is no appeale , but by speedie flying with repentance to his throne of grace and mercie in Iesus Christ . But for the Appeale , here let me tell you thus much by the way , which I dare be bold to auouch , that as he thinks he hath done politickly , so I know hee hath done very poorely to appeale to Caesar : being such a Caesar as when his many waightie affaires shall lend him leisure to view the Appeale , the Appealer will quickly find his owne errour , and haue cause to repent his appealing to a Prince of such dexteritie and judgement , as in humaine , so also in diuine matters .

Asotus .

Sir , I thanke you I am satisfied in this matter . Now let me intreat you to performe your promise , in resoluing some doubts , ministred by this booke .

Orthodoxus .

If you instance any particular , I am ready to doe my best indeauour .

Asotus .

Sir , because this Gentleman my friend , hath some more learning then my selfe , and is somewhat acquainted with the booke , I shall entreate him to propound and obiect , and your selfe to resolue the Obiections .

Babylonius .

Friend Asotus , I pray you doe not impute that to mee which I was neuer guiltie of , as matter of learning ; yet , if as a friend you impose this taske vpon me , to ease you , I will the more willingly vndertake it : prouided that where you see me faile , you will supplie● and Master Orthodoxus pardon . I shall onely act your part in propounding those particular point● , which you say are contrary to those , which Master Orthodoxus hath taught you ; as being also the most materiall things in the booke .

Asotus .

Sir , I thanke you , I desire no more .

Babylonius .

Then to begin in order as they lye : the first thing is about the losse of Faith and Iustification , in the Of losse of Faith , and Iustification . Of totall and finall ●●lling from grace . third Chapter , and so consequently of falling away from grace totally , in the fourth Chapter : and if totally , * * Pap. 34. possibly also , finally , without recouery . Now although the Authour doe not auouch absolutely his owne oppinion , yet hee proues the affirmatiue from antiquitie of Fathers , and from the authoritie of the Church of England , vnto whose Articles and Homilies , all the Ministers thereof haue subscribed . Now we desire your resolution herein .

Orthodoxus .

True it is , that the Authour is very cau●elous , in auerring any thing in his owne opinion , especially in points of such consequence ; therein I commend his wit , as the Lord did the wisdome of the vniust Steward ; but his priuate conception hee fathereth vpon the Fathers , and his mother Church : yet it is to be concluded , that what he goes about to proue by the Fathers , and by the authoritie of the Church of England ( though most falsly , by him forced and forged glosses ) himselfe is of the same judgement with them : and by the way , for the Articles and Homilies of the Church of England , wee Subscription to the Church of Englands Doctrine , not to Mr. Mountagues priuate inte●pretation . subscribed vnto them indeede , but not to the priuate sense which any particular man may make of them . Now for losse of faith ( he must meane iustifying and sauing faith , and not that faith of the Romane Church ) hee alledgeth the 16. Article , in these words , After we haue receiued the holy Gh●st , we may depart from grace giuen , & fall into sinne ; and by the grace of God wee way rise againe , and amende our liues . Now in all due remembrance to my blessed mother , the Church of England , is it not as lawfull for mee her Sonne , to take her in a good sense , as for another in a bad ? And if it be lawfull for me to interpret her words according to the letter , it is one thing , reced●re a gratia , another excidere , one thing , to depart aside , as out of the way erroniously ; another , 〈◊〉 fall quite away , and to abandon the way ; at least for the time to fall quite away from grace : nor doth the Article speake of a totall falling away : but of such slips , as are recouered by repentance , against the Doctrine of N●●atus , as is there expressed . It being one thing to fall into sin of infirmitie , another , to fall away from grace totally . But , if by departing , be meant , a totall falling away ; then how doth this accord with the Scripture , The Church of England● doctrine , ●o other then that of the Scriptures . Heb. 6. 6 that saith , If such as were once enlightned &c , doe fall away , it is impossible they should be renewed againe to repentance . Againe , for the words of the Homilie alledged by the Appealer , they containe a wholsome admonition to pietie , and perseuerance therein : but they mention no totall falling away from true and sauing grace in any one particular true beleeuer . Therefore , by departing , is meant some other thing , then any totall falling away from grace ; so that howsoeuer wee imbrace , and adore the generall Doctrine of the Church of England our deare Mother , yet whatsoeuer she saith , we must not presently take it at the first rebound , according to our priuate fancie , which what it affects and inclines to , it can easilie , ( as the corrupt stomacke ) assimilate euen wholesome meates , and cause them to corrupt ; or , as the Naturall thinkes the bells ring that which hee imagines ; so apt is mans fancie to take words , rather by the sound , then by the sense , to feede his pre-conceiued opinion : yet , as neither the Church of England , her selfe , auoucheth , or concludeth any thing for Doctrine and matter of Faith , but so farre as is consonant to the word of God ; so that her Doctrines are to be called , the Doctrines of God , rather than of the The Churches rule of faith is the Scriptures . Church : so neither are we to measure her Doctrines , but by the onely line and rule of the Scriptures . But , by the Scriptures , there is either no totall falling away from grace ; or if there be ( as from the common grace ) it must necessarily be finall too ; for it is impossible , ( saith the holy Ghost ) 〈◊〉 such as fall away , should be renewed againe to r●pentance . Therefore the Church of Englands words , speaking of d●p●●ting from grace , and yet of returning againe , cannot be understood of a totall falling away of particular persons from 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 grace : so that it appea●es , the Appeall●r hath wrested the words of the Article to his owne fancie , he should first conclude out of the Scriptures , that there is a falling away from grace totally . But , if the Scriptures teach the contrary , let no man fasten such a reproach vpon the Church of England , casting durt in his Mothers face , as teaching otherwise , then her heauenly Husband hath taught in his Word .

Babylonius .

But where doe the Scriptures teach , that a man cannot fall away from grace , and sa●ing 〈◊〉 , after he once hath it ?

Orthodoxus .

In many places , and that so pregnantly , and definitiuely , as the very Aduersaries of this truth confesse , it may be waued and taken indifferently either way , whither for a penny , as we say , their Opinion , or Gods Truth .

Babylonius .

But if Scripture say , and gainsay , how shall we beleeue them ? or how shall we reconcile them ?

Orthodoxus .

Very easily ; for as there is but one truth , so if wee first pitch vpon that truth , where wee finde it clearely and positiuely laid downe in the Scripture , then A sure rule to interpret Scriptures . whatsoeuer places of scripture seeme to contradict , yet the sense thereof must of necessitie bee reduced to that positiue truth . For the purpose , 1 Iohn 3. 9. Whosoeuer is borne of God , doth not commit sinne ; for his seede remaineth in him , and he cannot sinne , because h● is borne of God . Here is set downe a positi●e truth ; Whosoeuer is borne of God , doth not commit sinne ; and the reasons are annexed ; first , for the seede of God remai●eth in him ; and secondly , because he is borne of God , he cannot sinne . But this seemes a hard and a darke saying , doe not Gods 〈…〉 sinne ? yo● sur●ly , for , In many things we 〈◊〉 all , saith Saint 〈◊〉 , but the same Apostle cleares the sense , in his 5. Chapter of the Epistle . Verse 16 , 17. There is a sinne vnto death , and , there is a 〈◊〉 not vnto death : now Gods children commit sinne , which is not vnto death , whereof ver. 16. If any man see his brother sinne a sinne which is not vnto death , he shall aske , and he shall giue him life for them that sinne not vnto death . But of the sinne that is vnto death , of that the Apostle speakes , ver. 18. Wee know , that whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not , that is , not vnto death . Now Gods child sinneth not vnto death , that is , falleth not from faith ( as Saint Augustin● vnderstands this sin vnto death ) neither totally , nor much Aug. de corrept. & gr● . cap. lesse finally ; for the seede of God remaineth in him . The seede of God is the holy Spirit of God ; by which , as a holy and liuing seede , wee are begotten and borne of God . This seed● is that annointing , whereof the Apostle speakes , 1 Iohn 2. 27. The annointing which yee haue receiued of ●im , abideth in you , and therefore yee shall abide in him . Therefore none shall be able to seduce you , v. 26. Now , if th● the annointing abide in vs , if the seede of God remaines in vs , how then can we fall totally , much lesse finally from grace , for the Spirit of grace remaineth in vs . So long as this seed of God remaines in vs , ( and being once receiued , it abideth with vs ) Gods regenerate cannot so degenerate , as by falling from grace , to cease to be his sonnes . He that is of the blood royall , yea , who is descended immediately from the Kings owne loynes , cannot cease to bee the Kings sonne ; for the seede and blood of the King is in him . And yet , though a Kings sonne may degenerate from his Fathers vertues , notwithstanding his Fathers blood bee in him , yet the b●gotten of God , as they haue his seede alwaies remaining 〈◊〉 them , so it is an actiue , quickning , and pregnant seede , springing vp to life eter●all , wherin Gods child groweth in grace , till he be a perfect man in Christ Iasus .

Againe , this seede of God is immortall , as the Father is immortall . Now as a mortall father begets a mortall son : So the immortall God can beget no sonne , but is immortall as his Father is . It is impossible for the immortall God to dye , no not for a moment . Of this nature also is the borne of God ; hee cannot fall away totally , that is dye in his spirituall life , no not for a moment , for hee is , borne of that Father , the seede of that God remaineth , abideth in him , and neuer departeth from him , which is immortall , and cannot dye . This truth , that the borne of God are preserued from euer falling from grace , is confirmed by many other cleare places of Scripture , if time would permit to recite them .

Now , this being so cleare a proofe , if any places of Scripture seeme to be opposite , they are so onely in sound , not in sense . For proofe , the Scriptures are full of admonitions , ( the onely proofes that they bring for their opinions against the positiue truth ) to take heede of falling away from the grace of God , as Heb. 12. 13. So 1 Cor. 10. 12. He that think he standeth , let him take heed lest he fall ; & the like : also of exhortation , if any man be fallen , as Ezech 18. and elsewhere ; all which places must not so be taken as if Gods children did at any time fall away totally from , grace : but they are as so many Preseruatiues and Antidotes , as so many directions to keep Gods childe in his way ; they are a part of those meanes which God hath ordained to preserue vs in the way from falling . Hereupon I remember , Saint Augustine saith excellently , ( alledg●ng these words , Reu. 3. 11. Tene quod habes , &c. Hold that Aug de correp●. &c. cap. 13. thou hast , least another take thy Crowne ) now that these things are so spoaken , euen to the saints that shall perseuere , as if it were vncertaine that they shall perseuere , they ought not to heare this otherwise , to whom it belongeth , not to bee high minded , but feare . Hence also it was saide to the Apostles , If yee shall abide in me ; himselfe speaking it , who knew full well that they would abide in him : And by the Prophet , If yee be willing , and will hearken vnto mee : when himselfe knew in whom he would worke , euen to will . And many such things are spoken for the vtility and profit of this secret , least any should be puffed vp , but that all , euen th●se that runne well , should feare . So he . Nothing can be added to it .

Againe , when wee reade of any Apostates , and such as make shipwracke of faith , as 2 Tim. 2. Himeneus and Alexander , and the like : then haue recourse to that saying of Saint Iohn 1. 2. 19. where speaking of Antichristian reuolters ; saith , They went out from vs , but they were not of vs ; for if they had ben of vs , they would no doubt haue continued with vs ; but they went out , that it might be made manifest , that they were not all of vs . For there is a common temporarie faith , a common grace , a common illumination , whereof the Apostle speakes , Heb. 6. from which men may fall away totally and finally , as Iudas , and Iulian , and others : but the sauing grace , the iustifying faith , which is proper to Gods elect , is of the foundation of God , which standeth sure , vpon which , they that are built , shall neuer fall away , as Aquinas in Rom. 8. ver. 30. whom he hath iustified , them he hath glorified .

To this purpose , I remember a saying or two of Saint Augustine : a a Aug. de fide et operibus . cap. 16 Tom. 4. Fides Christi , &c. The faith of Christ , the faith of Christian grace , namely , that faith which worketh by loue , being put in the foundation permits none to perish . And in another place , b b 〈◊〉 de correp●●●t grat●a cap. 12. Nic nos moueat , &c. Nor let it moue vs , saith he , that God doth not giue this perseuerance to some of his sonnes : For there are some , who because of a temporarie grace receaued , are called of vs the sonnes of God , and yet with God they are not so ; of whom Iohn speaketh ; They went out from vs , but they were not of vs , they were not of the number of sonnes , no , not when they were in the faith of sonnes . For the sonne of promise perisheth not , but the sonne of perdition . Those were of the multitude of the called , not of the small number of the elect . And againe , in the 9. Chapter , reciting Christs words . Si man eritis in verbo meo &c. If ye abide Et 〈◊〉 9. in me , then are yee my Disciples indeed , he saith , Therefore because they had not perseuerance , as also being not Christs Disciples indeede , so neither were they the sons of God indeed ; euen then when they seemed to be , and were called so . Therefore we call those both the elect Disciples of Christ , and the so●●●s of God ; because they are so to be called , whom being regenerate ( to wit sacramentally , and in our account ) wee see to line godly : but then they are indeede , that which they are called , if they abide in that , for which they are so called . But if they haue not preseuerance , they are not truly called , that , which they are called , and are not . Thus we see Saint Augustine following the rule of Gods word , hath truly laid downe the state of the perseuerance of Gods saints in faith and grace ; distinguishing all along betweene sauing grace , and common temporary grace ; betweene iustifying faith , and common historicall Note . faith ; betweene the outward ordinarie calling of Christians , and the inward effectuall calling ; betweene the externall regeneration , and the internall ; betweene the sonnes of God in mens account , or in appearance , and those in Gods account , and in truth .

And in this sense , not otherwise , is that to bee vnderstood , which the Appealer vrgeth , of all that are baptized , of whom we professe , wee beleeue that they are regenerate , and in the state of grace ; who , comming afterwards to liue lewdly , and so to dye , the Author by their example would proue , both a totall and finall falling away from grace . True it is , that Baptisme is called regeneration , but Sacramentally ; and so all children baptised Baptisme is called Regeneration Sacramentally . are said to be regenerate , and so generally wee beleeue they are saved , while we iudge them to be in the state of grace , in regard of the common sacred Ordinance of God , which is alwayes effectuall , if it be accompanyed with the effectuall and inward working of the Spirit of God , and received by a saving faith , wrought by the same Spirit . I say , all children duely baptized , we beleeue to be made the members of Christ , and heires of the kingdome of heaven , and to be saved , dying before the committing of any such sinnes , as might giue vs occasion to judge and beleeue the contrary . This is the pious faith of the Church , and of Christians . Yet though in our accompt , many are called , by receiuing the outward Ordinances of God , and the externall ordinary meanes of salvation : notwithstanding in Gods account , few are chosen . And the chosen are onely those that are truely saved in Gods account . The Lord knoweth who are his . As aboue , Saint Augustine speaking of the impious , after baptisme , saith , Fuerunt isti , &c. Such were of the multitude of those that bee called , not of the small number of the Elect.

Babylonius .

But Saint Aug: ( as our Authour alledgeth him , both in this booke , and in his Gagge ) deliuereth it , as an Article of the Creede , ( Credendum est , quosdam de fil●is perditionis , non accepto dono persuerandi vsque in finem , in fide quae per dilectionem operatur , incipere vinere , & aliquandiu iuste , & fideliter vinere , et postea cadere ) &c. That some may fall away quite from that faith , which worketh by loue . And you see the words there Iustè & fideliter , and , postea CADERE are set downe in Capitall letters , as being most remarkable .

Orthodoxus .

It is a faire flourish indeed ; I remember the place quoted in his former booke : nor doth hee in this , vary from that . But I must tell you , the Authour ( besides his misquoting of the * booke ) hath not dealt He quotes the booke , De bono p●rseuerentia , for the booke , 〈◊〉 corrept. & gratia . Saint Augustine guelded by the Appealler . altogether so squarely with Saint Augustine herein ; as hauing broken off the chiefe corner of this stone , which else would stand firme and vniforme , with the entire fabricke of Saint Augustines building . For Saint Augustine speaking there of perseuerance , & to admonish the truely faithfull to be the more carefull in the constant pursuit of it , he setteth downe the sentence , thus ; PROPTER HVIVS VTILITATEM SECRETI . ( Which words the Appealler leaues out ) credendum est , &c. Which words are the maine qualification and seasoning of the whole sentence ; that is , in regard of the benefit of this secret , Credendum est , &c. Which wee may translate , wee are to suppose , as well as we must beleeue . But if wee must beleeue it , it is , propter huius vtilitatem secreti ; a phrase which S. Augustine often vseth vpon this purpose . And wherfore would Saint Augustine haue vs to thinke or beleeue so ? but to containe vs the better within the bounds of feare and humilitie , in regard of our humaine frailtie , as he specifieth both a little before , and after this sentence . And elsewhere hee saith expresly to the purpose , * * Aug. de ben . perseuer . cap. 〈◊〉 . God iudged it better to mingle som● , that should not perseuere , among the certaine number of his Saints , that they , for whom securitie in the tentation of this life is not expedient , might not be secure .

Babylonius .

But Saint Augustine saith , that a man may fall from that faith which worketh by loue , and so dye in that fall .

Orthodoxus .

Besides the former qualification , PROPTER HVIVS HVIVS VTILIT ATEM SECRETI ; and besides our former allegations out of Saint Augustine he Aug. de corrept et grat . cap. 7 doth in another place speake conclusiuely , with an asseueration , saying , The faith of those which worketh by loue , doth in very deede , either not faile at all , or if their bee any , whose faith doth * * He saith not , whose faith doth fall totally away ; expressing the same thus : ibid. 〈◊〉 si quando exorbitant electi . correpts emendantur , & in●iam , quam reliquerant , redemus . faile , it is repaired , before this life be ended , and the iniquity which came betweene , being blotted out , perseuerance is reckoned euen vnto the end . Now , if this be true , that faith worketh by loue , either faileth not at all ; or if it doc any whit faile , it is repaired in time : then his former speech of the falling away from faith , working by loue , is to be vnderstood not really of true faith working by loue , but as it is in apparance to our sense , as hee saith formerly of the sonnes of God . Yea , Saint Augustine is so copious in this point of perseuerance of Gods Saints , that I maruell any man that hath read Saint Augustine of these points , would euer meddle with him in this matter , to wrest one bare mangled testimonie , against so many pregnant proofes of this truth .

And to conclude this clause with Saint Augustine , who saith nothing but vpon the expresse ground of Scripture ; Christ saying , ( saith he ) * * Aug. de cor●p● de gra● . cap. 1● Rogaui pro te , &c. I haue prayed for thee that thy faith faile not , let vs vnderstand , as spoken to him which is built vpon a Rocke ; and so the man of God , not onely because he hath obtained mercy , to be faithfull , but also because faith it selfe doth not faile ; He that glorieth , let hi● glory in the Lord . And againe , God doth worke in his Saints a will to perseuere , that because they shall not perseuere , vnlesse they both can , and will ; therefore both the power and will of perseuering , is by the bountie of Gods grace giuen vnto them : therefore the weaknesse of mans will is helped , that by Gods grace it might be firmely and vnseperably vpholden ; and therefore , though weake , yet it should not faile , nor be ouercome by any aduersitie . And he that holds the contrary , hee calls him , Inimicum gratiae Dei , an enemy to the grace of God .

Babylonius .

But iustifying faith may be diminished , and consequently wholly abolished .

Orthodoxus .

It doth not necessarily follow ; Faith indeede may be saide to be diminished , in regard of the , act , operation , externall fruits , sense and apprehension of it ; but not in regard of the habit and substance of it . To illustrate this a little . The seede cast into the ground , lyes there hid , appeares not for a good space : is it therefore dead ? waite a little , and so it begins to sprout and spring forth , and by degrees commeth to a mature haruest . The sappe in the winter lyes hid in the roote , and the withered vine seemes dead with cold : yet the cold blowne ouer , and sommer approching , so the goodly leaues it puts forth , and goodlier clusters , vnto a full vintage . The Sunne ecclipsed by the Moones interposition , or by some blacke cloud , from our aspect , yet wee know it keepeth his course , looseth none of the natiue light the while , onely our sense misseth it , till anon it breake forth with a fresh luster and glory . The soule , while the body suffereth a kind of d●liquium , or fowning , though now it exercise not the organicall operations 〈◊〉 the body , yet we know the soule is in●ue and whole still , without any substantiall diminution : so that the body being reuiued with some aqua caelestis , the soule actuates euery organ and member of it afr●sh , as before . The ship ( as that wherein Christ slep● ) may be euen couered ouer with waues , and giuen for lost , as in the Disciples sense and apprehension : but Christ being awakened , and commanding a calme , the ship comes safe to the Port. The fire raked vp close vnder the ashes , though you neither see nor feele it , yet so it is preserued till the morning , to feede vpon new fewell . A man in a deepe or dead sleepe may seeme dead , but awakening , hee feeles himselfe the more refreshed after his sounder sleepe . So is faith . It is a seede , ( though but as a graine of mustard seede ) well may it lye hid for a time , yet the while , it is but fastning the root the more firmely to bring forth the better and more abundant fruite . It is the sappe , which in time of wintery persecutions and afflictions , coucheth close to the heart roote , but the sommer of Gods comforts returning , it displayeth it selfe in leaues and fruits , shewing plainly it was not dead , though to our sense it seemed so . It is the Sun inlightning the soule , which though ecclipsed from our sense , by some interposition of transitory temptation , yet retaines his full light , holding on his insensible course , and when this nubecula pertransibit , when this cloud is ouer , it sends forth new rayes of grace . It is the soule of the soule , which euen in the middest of extream fainting of the soule , yet remaines intire , without diminution , & by the aqua caelestis of Gods neuer failing mercy , actuates euery faculty of the soule afresh , to the atchieuing of greater workes . It is the ship of good hope , which when couered with waues , sets prayers to awaken Christ asleepe in it , who by and by stilleth the storme , or sends his Angel , as to Paul , to assure him , that none in this little barke of ours shall perish , but safely arriue vpon Act: 27 & 28. the hony hauen of Melita , euen that true hony-flowing land of Canaan . It is a fire , which while raked vp vnder the dead ashes of deepe contrition , though it seeme dead , yeelding neither light nor warmth , to our weake senses , yet it is but fostered for a new fire , that though heauinesse for sinne may indure for a night , yet ioy of faith commeth in the morning , feeding it selfe with the fewell of new works of obedience , flaming forth in a holy conuersation . The faithfull man , as Dauid , as Peter , may be ouertaken with a dead sleepe of faith : but awakened by grace , his soule is inlightned , that hee sleepes not in death , but as the Sunne arising , reioyceth as a gyant to runne his course with greater alacritie and vigor . Thus wee see the fruite of sauing faith may be for a time suppressed , yet the roote not supplanted : the act of it may be suspended , yet the habit not lost : it may be ecclipsed to our sense , yet his light not lessened , or his course stayed : it may bee in a dead sleepe , yet liue : faint , yet not faile : sicke , yet not to death : weather beaton , yet not wracked : languish , yet not perish .

Babylonins .

But the famous Schollar Doctor Ouerall ( alledged by the Authour ) late Deane of Pauls and Bishop of Norwich held , that a man might fall from grace into the very state of damnation , and so remaine vnder Gods wrath , till hee did recouer Yea , that he auouched this to his late Maiestie , and what concertations hee had with other Doctors in the Vniuersitie about it .

Orthodoxus .

If we take vp all the Appealer faith vpon trust , without further examination , wee shall recken before our host , for hee playes the shuffler egregiously . Nor will he ( I perceiue ) to saue his owne stake , sticke to pawne the best credit of the most famous of our Church , for the security of his most shamelesse slaunders of the truth . And if we had not all the better euidence to conuince him , he would carry it away hand smooth with downe right daring . Pardon my zeale hearein . I cannot but be moued , when not only Godscause , and glory ( then which nothing ought to be more precious vnto vs , ) but also the credit of our learned and reuerend Fathers is so traduced . But the summe of the Conference before the Kings Maiestie at Hampton Court , now newly published in print , will tell vs the plaine truth of the matter . And that we may not with the Appealer falsifie the truth , in dealing by halfes : I will giue you the intire words of that worthy Deane and reuerend Bishop , as they are set downe in the 42 page of that booke : Namely , that whosoeuer ( although before iustified ) did commit any greeuous sin , as adultery , murther , treason , or the like , did become ipso facto , subiect to Gods wrath , and guiltie of damnation , or were in state of damnation ( quoad praesentem statum ) vntill they repented ; adding hereunto , that those which were called & iustified , according to the purpose of Gods election , howsoeuer they might , and did , sometime fall into greiuous sinnes , and thereby into the present state of wrath and damnation : yet did neuer fall , either totally from all the graces of God , to be vtterly destitute of all the parts and sccde thereof , nor finally from iustification , but were in time renued , by Gods Spirit vnto a liuely faith and repentance , and so iustified from those sinnes , and the wrath , curse , and guilt annexed thereunto , whereinto they are fallen , and wherein they lay , so long as they were without true repentance for the same .

Doe we not see plainely here how hee distinguisheth betweene a common iustification in regard of the externall Doctor Ouerall fred from the App●alers wrestings . and ordinary meanes of the Word and Sacraments , and the true and reall iustification , according to Gods purpose ? yet in the first , he maketh no mention of a totall falling away . Or if the Appealer will contend , that so much is implyed , we will not contend for that , for such as are not truely and really iustified , according to Gods purpose , but onely according to the externall vocation , no maruaile if they , both totally , and finally fall away . But for those , that are iustified according to Gods purpose , to wit , the elect and praedestenate vnto life , he saith expresly , that though they may and doe fall into greiuous sinnes : yet they neuer fall , either totally , or ( much lesse ) finally from the grace of God ; but are in time renewed , by Gods Sririt , vnto a liuely faith , and repentance . A golden speech , which all the Apealers chimicall counterfeit Philosophers stone , cannot so easily transmute into his base copper alcumy coyne , how brauely and boldly soeuer he braze it on ; according to his rule , Calu●niare audacter , aliquid bar●bit .

To conolude this point of perseuerance in true grace , it Reasons of the , Saints perscu●rance . 1 Reason . stands firmely built vpon sure grounds , and euident reasons , set downe in the Scriptures , such as no wit of man , or deuill , can ouerthrow . For the purpose ; one reason of the elects , perseuerance in grace vnto glory , is taken from the nature of that holy feare , which God puts in the hearts of all his faithfull ones : as Ier. 32. 39 , 40. where the Lord saith , I will giue them one heart , and one way , that they may feare me for euer , &c. And I will make an euerlasting couenant with them , that I will not turne away from them to doe them good , but I will put my feare in their hearts , that they shall not depart from me . So here is a double reason of the Saints perseuerance ; first on Gods part , He will not turne away from them to doe them good , and that by an eternall couenant . And secondly , they shall not depart from him . Vpon which words , Saint Augustine saith , ( Quod quid est aliud , Ang. de ●omo perse●●● . cap. 2. quam talis actantus erit timor meus , quem dabo in cor corum , vt mihi perseueranter adhareant ) which what is it else , but that my feare , which I will put in their hearts , shall bee such and so great , that they shall perseueringly cleaue vnto me .

A second reason is alledged , Ioh. 13. 1. drawne from 〈◊〉 Reason . the immutabilitie and eternity of Christs loue to his elect , saying , Hauing loued his owne which were in the world , he loued them , vnto the end . * And as the Apostle saith , The gifts and calling of God are without repentance . Rom 11. 29.

A third reason of the Saints perseuerance , is taken from the power of Christ , and of the Father , Ioh. 10. 28. where 〈◊〉 Reason . Christ saith , I giue vnto them , ( to his sh●●pe ) eternall life , and they shall neuer perish , neither shall any man plucke them out of my hand . My Father which gaue them me , is greater than all , and no man is able to plucke them out of my Fathers ●and , I and my Father are one . And Saint Peter said , we are kept by the power of God through faith vnto saluation 1. Pet. 1. 5. And the Prophet Dauid sheweth by this reason , that the righteous shall neuer fall totally away , because Gods band euer supporteth them , as Psal. 37. 24. Though he fall , hee shall not bee vtterly cast downe ; for the Lord vpholdeth him with his band . Which place Aquinas applies to the same purpose , in Rom. 8.

A fourth reason , from the will of God , Ioh. 6. 39. This is the Fathers will , which hath sent me , that all which he hath 4 Reason , giuen me , I should loose nothing , but should arise is vp at the last day . And , this is the will of him that sent me , that euery one which seeth the Sonne , and beleeueth on him , should 〈◊〉 euerlasting life , and I will raise him vp at the last day .

A fifth reason , drawne from the efficacie of * * Exemplified also in Christ● prayer for Peter mantioned a little before , & applyed to St. Aug to all the faithfull . 6 Reason . 7 Reason . Christs 5 Reason . prayer , Ioh. 17. 20. and so to the end of the Chapter .

A sixth reason , from the impossibilitie of seducing the Saints from Christ , by Antichrist and false Prophets . Mat. 24. 24.

A seuenth reason , from the perpetuall mansion , and inhabitation of Gods Spirit in all the faithfull , 1. Ioh. 3. 9. Whosoeuer is borne of God , sinneth not , ( that is , not vnto death ; as chap. 5. ●6 . ) For his seede remaineth in him , and be cannot sinne , because he is borne of God .

An eight reason , from the infallibility of Gods knowledge 8 Reason . of all his , called , Gods foundation , 2. Tim. 2. 19. The foundation of God standeth sure , hauing this seale , The Lord knoweth them that are his , whereupon Saint Augustine concl deth thus , If the elect may perish and fall away , then God may be deceiued . But God cannot be deceiued ; therefore his Et si quando exorbitant electi corr●p●●●●●dantur & i●●iam qua 〈◊〉 r●liqu●rant , redeunt . Aug. de corrept. & gr● 〈◊〉 . 7. elect cannot perish , nor fall away . And if at any time the elect doe exorbitate , or decline out of the way : vpon reproofe , they are reformed , and returne into the way , from which they had digressed ; As Aquinas cites the glosse on Rom. 8. verse 28. Vsque adeo &c. To such as loue God , he doth so cause all things to cooperate for good , as if any of them stray or straggle , euen this also hee causeth to turne to their further good ; yea , euen their sinnes cooperate to their greater good , in causing them to walke more humbly and carefully .

A ninth reason , is from the inseperable vnion betweene Christ , and euery true beleeuer . Christ himselfe expresseth 9 Reason . this sweetly , applying it as a speciall tye , and token of the saints continu●ance in him . Ioh. 17. 20. I pray not for these alo●● , but for them also , which shall beleeue in mee , thorow their word , that they may all be one , as thou Father art in me and I in thee ; that they also may be one in vs . And that glory , which thou hast giuen me , I haue giuen them , that they may be one , euen as wee are one . I in thee , and thou in met , that they may be made perfect in one . So that as not a bone of his naturall body was broken : so neither a bone of his mysticall body . For he keepeth all his bones , not one of them is broken Psal. 34 20. Not a haire of their head shall perish , that are his members .

I will adde but one reason●more , of many , vsed in Scripture , to confirme the Doctrine of the Saints perseuerance , and it is taken from Gods eternall election and effectuall vocation of his elect vnto eternall life : As Rom. 8. 30. Whom he did praedestinate , them he also called : and whom hee called , them he also iustified ; and whom hee iustified , them hee also glorified : This is such a golden chaine , as all the Diuells of hell can neuer breake . Christ vseth the same reason , Ioh. 15. 16. Yee haue not chosen mee , but I haue chosen you , and ordained you that you should go , and bring forth fruite , and that your fruite should remaine : which place Saint Augustine sweetly applyeth to Gods eternall election , whence springeth th● perseuerance of his elect , whose fruite remaineth for euer . As also the same Augustine applieth that other place to the Romans , to the Saints perseuerance , and Aug. de predest . lib. 1. cap. 17. Aug. de predest . san●lo●ū . li. 1. & de fide ad P. D●a con● cap. 3. Aug. de corrept. & gra . cap. 13 Quis in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 potu●● ordina●● , nisi perse●●●antia do●● ? onely to the elect Saints , quorum it a certus est numerus , &c. whereof the number is so certaine , that none of them can perish , no more than any of the reprobate can be saved . And so hee concludes the Saints perseverance , from the foundation of Gods eternall election , and praedestination . Quis &c. What one could be ordained to eternall life , but with the gift of perseuerance ? This is the Doctrine also of the Church of England , Arti● . 17. So then , if God can breake his euerlasting covenant , with his people , if his sauing feare be such , as to whom it is giuen , it will not suffer them to depart from 〈◊〉 Aug. de ●●rept . & gra● . cap. 6. God ; if Gods loue in Christ to his owne be immutable and endlesse ; if Christs power and his Fathers be so great , that none can plucke his elect out of his hands ; if it be the Fathers will , that none of his elect shall perish , but haue eternall life ; if Christs prayer for his elect cannot bee in vaine ; if it be impossible for all Antichrists power and policie , and lying wonders , to seduce Gods elect ; if the perpetuall residence of Gods holy Spirit in his regenerate , preserue them from sinning vnto death ; if Gods infallible knowledge of his owne cannot be deceiued , but remaineth as a sure and sealed foundation ; if all things cooperate for their good , and nothing can seperate them from the loue of Christ ; if Gods eternall election and praedestination of his , to grace , and so to glory , cannot be frustrate : then who dare be so bold , as to affirme , that the Saints may fall away , either totally , or finally from grace , & so fall short of glory .

Babylonius .

But my authour instanceth two examples of totall falling away from grace , the one of King Dauid , the other of the prime Apostle Saint Peter , now if these did fall totally from grace , at least for a time , then is it possible for any in the state of grace to fall totally from that state● , and so come short of finall perse●●rance . And to proue thier totall fall , he argueth thus , 〈◊〉 ●ter fell ; now if he fell , he must needs full totally or finally : for Cedo tertium . And ( saith hee ) if Dauids and Peters repentance had beene preuented by death , they should haue perished eternally . And you know , that a supposition must necessarily imply a possibilitie of the thing supposed ; else it were absurd ; so that it was possible , they might haue beene preuented by death , before they had repented , and so haue perished eternally . As the Authour saith elsewhere , * cap. 4. that it is possible for the fallen away to arise againe : possible , but not certaine and necessary .

Orthodoxus .

By mentioning this last speech of the The Appel●● contradicts himselfe . Appealer , you giue mee occasion to call to minde , a flat contradiction of his in that place , to what he had said before , cap. 2. his words ( as I remember ) bee these ; Doth Arminius ●●intaine , touching finall perseuerance , that sometime the called and elect of God , the chosen ●●●s , and iustified by faith , such as Peter was , though they doe full totally for a time , shall yet recouer necessarily againe , and not fall away finally , or for euer ? If this be Armenianisme , and so his conclusion , then therein he ( to wit , the Appealer ) holdeth with Arminius . Yet in his foresaid forth Chapter hee contradicts himselfe , and saith , that the recouery of such is possible , not certaine , and necessary . Is he such an enemy to perseuerance , as himselfe will not perseuere longer in his owne opinion ? Or rather will he be an Arminian by holding with Arminius a totality of the elect falling from grace for a time , with a necessuit of their recovery , than an orthodox Christian , while he alloweth onely a possibility , but no certainty and necessity of recouery ? Oportet Appellatorem esse memorem . But for the Appealers two instances of Dauid and Peter , I deny that they fell totally . Dauids and Peter , fall , not totall . Fall they did both , and that fearefully ; yet not totally ? Neither of them . Is there no other kinde of fall ? not a third ? yes , there is a fall , whereby a man gets some hurt in a limbe , as Mephebosheth did : and there is a fall , whereby a man , breakes his neck , as it befell old . Eli : and 2 Sam. 4. there is a fall , wherein a man is strucke stone dead for the 1 Sam 4. time , as befell 〈◊〉 . Now , if by Elies break-neck fall , may be exemplified , the finall falling away ; and by Eutychus Acts 20. 9. his fall , the totall falling for the time : why not as well by Mephebosheths fall , may we conceiue of such a fall of Gods Saints , as whereby they may bruise , or breake some limbe , and not necessarily with Eutychus , so to fall from the third lost , as falling totally to be strucke stoned ad : or with Eli to breake their necks , by falling away finally and irrecouerably ; as Lucifer , that fell from the third heauen . Now we say , that the fall of Dauid and Peter , was like that of Mephibosheth , whereby they did breake or bruise a limbe , the fear whereof they might carry to then graue , though by Gods ●yle , and wine of grace and mercy , they were ●f● ▪ soonees receiued , and recouered . Againe , a member , brused , or broken , or put out of ●oynt , ceaseth not instantly to be a member of the body ; nor is it by and by cut off from the body , vnlesse it be incurable , and endanger the whole , Immedicabile vuln●● ens● reeidendum est , ne part sincera trabatur , as that incurable sinne against the holy Ghost , and that , committed with a high hand , with a full concent , and malicious contempt of the blood of the couenant &c. as that Heb. 6. which sinne is impossible to be renewed by repentance ; such a grangreend member is cut off . Now Dauid and Peter were the members of Christ , they were wounded by a greeuous stroake of sinne , yet such as was curable , and so during the maladie , they were not cut off from Christs body , but still continued members , though sicke for the time , not totally fallen , or cut off . The Prophet Dauid himselfe , inspired by Gods Spirit , sets downe a notable and manifest difference betweene fall and fall ; hee saith of the righteous , of the ●●stified by faith , of the elect , Though he fall , he shall not be vtterly be cast downe ; for the Lord vpholdeth him with his hand . Psal. 37. 24. Though hee fall : therefore the righteous may fall : yet though he fall , he shall not be vtterly cast downe ; therefore he shall not fall totally , or finally : not totally ; for that is to be vtterly cast downe ; for the time at least . Not finally ; for that is , to be vtterly cast downe , to wit , for euer . But , if by beeing vtterly cast downe , the Appealer would haue , not the totall fall meant , but the finall ; let him remember , that as he saith in one place , he is of the minde with Ar●imius , that the elect may fall totally from grace for the time : so he saith in another , that their recouery is possible , not certaine and necessary . Contrary to Dauid here , who saith , Hee shall not be vtterly cast downe , not finally fall away ( if the Authour will restraine it to that ) but he shall certainly recouer . And he adds a strong reason , For the Lord vpholdeth him with his hand . If the Lord vphold him with his hand , then how can he either fall finally , or yet totally , which in either were to be vtterly cast downe ? The Comparison . manner of speech seemes to be taken from a father , holding his sonne in his hand , and to 〈◊〉 his childe see his owne weaknesse , to make him vse the more warinesse , for the time to come , suffers him to fall ; yet so handles the matter , as with his hand he preserues him from being vtterly cast downe . And as Lyranus saith on this place . ●loss . Lyral● Psal. 36. alia● 37. Huius autem manus suppositio est diuinae gratiae conseruatio ; th● putting vnder of Gods hand , is the preseruation of diuine grace .

Obiect . But some will obiect , that according to the same glosse of Lyranus in that place , this fall is meant of a veniall sinne , not of a mortall , such as Dauids , and Peters sinne was . To which I answer , first , that the word for fall in the originall , signifieth such a fall , as when a man Naphal . falleth prostrate , or flat vpon the ground ; not to slip , as men account of a veniall sinne , but to fall downe all along . And for veniall sinne , we know there is no sinne committed by any servant of God , but through Christ vpon repentance it is veniall , yea Dauids sinne , and Peters Si● veniall : mortall . sinne ; for they were both pardoned . And veniall , is that which may be pardoned . And there is no sinne , be it never so small in mans conceit , but it is mortall , deserving death eternall : As Adam sinne , in eating the forbidden Apple , which to a carnall mans conceit , might seeme to be but a veniall sinne , as the Pope accounted it , in comparison in stealing of the his Peacocke . 〈◊〉 3.

But first for Davids sinne : it was grievous indeede ▪ yet sinne is to be weighed , not so much by the Act of the sinne , as by the affection of sinning . Dauid and Ahab , both committed the like sinne of murther : the fact Difference betweene Dauids and Ahabs sin . was the same , but not their affections . Ahab sold himselfe to worke wickednesse , Dauid not so ; Ahabs humiliation procured the delay of his punishment onely , not the remouall of his sinne . Deus d●stulit paenam , non abstulit culpam . But Dauid vpon his peccani , heard , The Lord hath put away thy sinne . Saint Chrysostome compareth Dauids case in lusting after Bat●sheba , to a sea-storme , fore afflicting the 〈◊〉 1 Cor. 16. hom. 44. Comparison . Martiners for the time ; so that , he suffered a vehement perturbation of his passions , during the temptation , not knowing well what he did ; & though his brittle Barke of carnall lust , and humaine frailtie went to wracke , yet the gulfe of a totall falling away , did not swallow him vp in the deepe , but vpon the planke of repent●nce , he did swimme safe to shore . And Saint Augustine saith of Dauids sinne : Aug de Doctr. Christ . lib. 3. cap. 21. In ista vi●o ( 〈◊〉 Dauid● ) immoderata &c. In this man ( i● Dauid ) there was not an abode , but onely a passage of this inordinate lust : And therefore the Prophet , reprouing it , called it a guest ; for he said not , that he set before his King , but before his guest , his poore neighbors sheepe to feast withall : so that thereby Comparison . Augustine giues vs to vnderstand , that Dauids inordinate lust , was not as a King to raigne , and to keep his Court of residence in his heart , but onely as a guest , comming accidentally , and lodging with him for a night , and so away . The like he saith of Peters deniall . Quis ita euanescat , &c. Who can be so vaine , as to thinke the Apostle Peter had that in Aug. contra medatium ad Consentium . cap. 6. his heart , which he● had in his mouth , when he denied Christ ? surely in that deniall , he retained the truth inwardly , and outwardly vttered a lye . For with his heart hee beleeued to righteousnesse , but with his month he confessed not to saluation . If therefore in Peters deniall , his faith was not lost , then certainly hee fell not totally away . And that Peters faith was not then lost , wee haue Christs testimony in his prayer for Peter , But I haue prayed for thee , that thy faith faile not . This prayer of Christ was before Peters deniall of him ; Luke . 22. 32. yea , Christs prayer did in particular , point at Peters deniall , which was that very night , to preserue his faith from failing therein , though his tongue did fouly faulter . And who shall deny Christs prayer to be effectuall ? For the Father heareth him alwaies , Ioh. 11. 42. and if it were effectuall , Peters faith failed not , no , not in that his fearefull denyall ; and consequently , his sinne was not a totall falling away from grace , no , not for an instant : for his faith failed not , nor finally , nor totally , nor at all . St. Augustine saith , Fides eius qui aedificatur super Petram , &c. Aug. de correps . & gra . cap. 7. His faith that is built vpon the rocke , for which also Christ prayed , that it should not faile , doth not faile . So that the faith of the elect faileth not , no not in the degrees , as we haue shewed .

Babylonius .

But admit 〈◊〉 faith did not faile , yet others faith may , for which Christ did not so particularly pray , as for Peters saith .

Orthodoxus .

That which Christ prayed for Peter , he did also in him pray for all the faith full ; Peter standing oftentimes for a type of the Church . For Christ saith , Peter a type , not the Head of the Church . ( Lake 22. 31. ) calling Simon by name , Simon , Simon behold Sathan hath desired to haue you , that he may s●fe you as wheat : so that he speakes to Simon in the plurall number , as including all his Disciples , all his faithfull ; Sathan hath desired to haue you , that he may 〈◊〉 YOV . And in the next verse , he addes , But I haue prayed for THEE , &c. Where Christ doth more particularly apply his speech to Peter , to arme him the better against his approaching deniall ; so that in Peter , hee prayes for all his faithfull : as Saint Augustine applies it ; Dicent● argo Christo , Roga●i pro te , &c. Christ saying , I haue prayed for thee , that thy faith faile not : August . de corr●p● . et gratia . cap. 12. let vs vnderstand it to bee said to him , that is built vpon the Rocke . And againe , more plainly in the plurall number , Pro his interpellante Christo , &c. For these ( to wit , the called , Ibid. according to his purpose ) Christ praying that their faith faile not , without doubt it shall not faile , vnto the end . And as Saint Augustine in sundry places noteth , Saint Peter beateth the person and figure of the Catholicke Church ; though he say not , that Peter is the head of the Church : so that oftentimes that which Christ speakes to Peter by name , is extended to all the faithfull .

To conclude : these fell not totally , nor yet any of Gods elect , sith the couenant betweene them and God stands Gods coue●ā with his , neuer faileth ; so that they neuer fall totally . firme , and is neuer totally broken ; the couenant I meane , made by and with Dauid in his Circumcision , & by and with Peter in his Baptisme . Which couenant , on our part , is to beleeue in God , and to serue him , and to loue him , with all our heart , and with all our soule , &c. Now for Dauids and Peters faith , that failed not , as wee haue proued . For their loue , that was in the exercise of it defectiue for the time , while the act of it was suspended , so that they had made a partiall breach of their Couenant . But totall it was not : for the totall breach pertaines to that sinne , which is impossible to be expiated by repentance ; described , Heb. 6. as the sinne of Iudas , of Iulian , and the like . But Dauid and Peters sinne , was not committed out of a hatred of God ; much lesse , a totall hatred of the whole soule , minde and heart ; that is for Iudasses and Iulians , and all Apostaticall Reprobates . But the sinnes of Gods elect , howsoeuer for the act , they may be equall to the sinnes of the most reprobate : yet in the affection they are not , and so they make not a totall breach of their Couenant with God . Againe the Couenant on Gods part , is a Couenant of mercy , as Ro● 11. 27. as also , Ier. 31. 33 , 34. This is my couenant vnto them , when I shall take away their sinnes ; so that Gods Couenant with vs , is a Couenant of mercy : and mercy implyeth misery , yea sinne it selfe ; that if through humaine frailtie we fall into sinne , as Dauid and Peter did , there is mercy with God , that hee may be feared ; who if he should be extreame to marke what is done amisse , who could abide it ? yea , to take the extreamitie , were to breake his couenant with vs , which is a couenant of mercy . But hee is not as a strict , and cruell Land-lord , who will take the forfeiture of our lease , vpon euery the least breach . Neither is hee as a Iudge , strictly to take away our inheritance from vs , onely for some flaw in the conueyance . No , our inheritance is conueyed ouer Comparison . vnto vs , not according to forme of law , or regall right : but according to the couenant of the Gospell , which is not forfaited for euery flaw , or defect on our part . Indeede in point of Gods strict law , euery the least flaw forfeits all : but not so according to the tenure of the Gospell . For , saith God , * * Psal. 89. I haue found Dauid my seruant , &c. It is spoken literally of Dauid , typically , and mystically of Christ : for he is Gods first borne , higher than the Kings of the earth . Now of him , & of his seede , to wit , all his elect , and regenerate , he saith ( ver. 28. ) My mercy will I keepe for him for euermore , & my couenant shall stand fast with him , his seede also will I make to endure for euer , &c. But if they breake my statutes , and keepe not my commandements ; thou will I visite their transgression with the rod , and their iniquities with stripes . Neuerthelesse , my louing kindnesse will I not vtterly take from him ; nor suffer my faithfulnesse to faile . My couenant will I not breake , nor alter the thing that is gon out of my lips ; once have I sworne by my holinesse , that I will not faile Dauid● : his seede shall endure for euer . And St. Ioh. saith , If any man sin , we haue an Aduocate with the Father 〈◊〉 . Ioh. 〈◊〉 . 1. Iesus Christ the righteous , & he is the propitiation for our sins .

Babylonius .

But say , their fall was not totall , yet fearefull it was ; and such , as without repentance would haue tumbled them downe to hell . Where is then perseuerance ? where praedestination , and election , vnto grace and glory ?

Orthodoxus .

True it is , that without faith and repentance , there is no saluation ; and a man dying impenitent , is damned . But , we must know , that as faith and repentance are conditions , which God hath ordained , and so requires on our part , though himselfe giue them , and worke them in vs ; so they are a part of those meanes , which God hath appointed to attaine the end of our saluation . And the meanes are such , so fixed and established of God , as they shall alwaies attend vpon his purpose and The meanes euer attend God Decree of our saluation , as being inseperable God Decreed the meanes , as well as the end . pleasure , in our election to grace and glory . So that as God hath in his eternall decree preordained vs vnto glorie , hee hath also preordained the meanes in time , as the way vnto that glory ; so that none of his Elect shall fall through infirmitie into any sinne , as Dauid and Peter did ; but Gods grace , which neuer faileth his , shall raise them vp againe , by the renouation of their faith and repentance , before that any sodaine death shall be able to preuent them , or so , to take them out of Christs , and his Fathers hands . Neither doth the stabilitie of Gods election depend vpon the condition of our faith and repentance : but contrarywise , the condition of our faith and repentance dependeth vpon the immutabilitie of Gods Praedestination , producing all the meanes and conditions requisite to the end ; as the roote of the tree doth the branches and fruits . And this is the expresse Doctrine of the Church of England , most sweetly set downe in the 17. Article , of Praedestination , and Election .

Babylonius .

But this Doctrine , howsoever it may seeme to be true , yet it tendeth to presumption , and carnall securitie , to commit and continue in sinne . Also Dauids and Peters sinne , if it were not a totall falling , it giues too much encouragement to others , to commit the like , or at least , lesse sinnes , boldly .

Orthodoxus .

No , this doctrine appertaines properly to the faithfull penitent , that if through frailty they haue sinned , they may not bee without hope of mercy , vpon their repentance . So that this doctrine is an Antidote against desperation , when Gods childe through humaine frailtie is ouercome with a temptation ; it is a cordiall of comfort , quickning his hope vnto a godly sorrow . But if it be , or seeme to be a Doctrine of presumption , it is so to none of Gods Saints , who pray with Dauid , as to be cleansed from their secrets faults , so to be kept backe from presumptuous sinnes . And where St. Iohn Psal. 19. 1 Ioh. 2. 1. saith , If any man sinne , we haue an Aduocate , &c. There hee sets a barracado against presumption in the frontire of it : My little children , these things write I vnto you , that you sin not . And God hath his rod likewise , to scare his children from sinning , by presuming on his mercy ; for hee saith , If they sinne , I will visit their transgression with the rod , and their iniquitie with stripes . Yea Gods holy feare is in their hearts , that they shall not by presumption depart from God , as Ieremy speakes .

As for Dauids sand Peters sinne , while we defend it , not to be a totall alling away ; we doe not any way extenuate . it ; for they were notwithstanding great and fearefull sinnes , neither of them exemplarie to be imitated , but rather to be auoided . Their examples are left vs in Scripture , that we might imitate , not their sinne , but their repentance ; sith they found mercy ; not their fall , but their speedy rising againe . As the Apostle saith of such Scriptures , they are written for our learning , that wee through patience , and comfort of the Scriptures might haue hope . Rom. 15. Yea , their examples tend rather to humiliation , then presemption : for if such pillars The right vse of the Saints falls . shake , the laths may well tremble . Lapsus maiorum sit tremor minorum , saith Augustine . Let the fall of the greater and stronger , be the feare of the lesser and weaker . And to conclude with Saint Augustine this point concerning Aug in Psal. 50. alias 51. Dauids sinne , he saith , M●lticadere &c. Many will fall with Dauid , but they will not rise with Dauid ; therefore he is not set for a precedent of falling , but if thou hast fallen , of rising againe : beware thou fallest not ; let not the fall of the greater , bee the reioycing of the lesser , but their trembling : for this end is it set forth , for this written , for this often read and sung in the Church . Let them that haue not fallen heare , that they may not fall : and they that haue fallen , let them heare , that they may get vp againe . ( But saith he ) Auiunt male vinentes &c. Ill-liuers heare it , and seeke thereby a patronage of sinning ; they attend , that they may haue to defend , what they are about to commit , and not to preuent , what they haue not as yet committed : and they say to themselues , if Dauid , why not also I ? Hereupon is their soule more wicked , which doing so , because Dauid did so , they doe worse then Dauid , whereas Dauid sinned not by sample : he fell by the slip of his lust , not by the patronage of sanctity ; thou louest that in Dauid , which he hated in himselfe . In a word , such ensamples stand for sea-markes , to warne vs to decline , not to teach vs to rush vpon the rocke . And who would , to inioy Dauids sinne , indure Gods rod , the smart whereof went so to Dauids heart ? It was a sinne dearely bought , though mercifully pardoned .

Babylonius .

But the Doctrine of perseuerance tendeth to possesse men with carnall security .

Orthodoxus .

It may seeme so to those , that know not the true nature of sauing grace , which is such , as in whomsoeuer it is , it preserueth that man from all carnall security ; sauing grace and carnall security being opposite one to the other : as in the forenamed place of Ieremy , chap. 32. 40. Gods feare causeth perseuerance . And Saint Ioh. saith expresly , He that hath this hope in him , purifieth himselfe , euen as he is pure . So farre is a liuely hope of eternall life , from possessing him that hath it in him , with carnall security , the more licentiously to wallow in the puddle of sinne . It is an euill signe to that man , to whom the truth of Christ becomes a stumbling stone , and a rocke of offence . Let such beware , lest so stumbling , they be broken , and so , least at last this stone falling vpon them , grinde them to powder .

Babylonius .

But Sir , you conclude the point of perseuerance with a dangerous and difficult Doctrine of praedestination ; Of Praedestination , out of cap. 5. & 6. a Doctrine , which it were to bee wished , might neuer bee mentioned by Diuines , and Preachers . Yet the mentioning of it by you in this place ministers vnto me a fit occasion to desire your resolution , concerning this point , it being also the next thing in order , treated of by our Authour .

Orthodoxus .

Sir , you speake contradictories ; first you wish all were mute in the mention of this Doctrine , and yet in the second place , you desire me to speake my minde of it . But I pray you tell me , why you wish the mention hereof to be altogether silence .

Babylonius .

Because of the generall offence taken at it , for it is a stumbling stone , whereon many doe fall .

Orthodoxus .

So is Christ a stumbling stone , and a rocke of offence , to many ; would ye therefore haue the mention of Christ suppressed ? But what if many men are offended with this Doctrine ? an offence may be vniustly taken , where it is not iustly giuen .

Babylonius .

But it is called by a late great Bishop of this Land ( quoted by the Authour , cap. 4. ) a desperate Doctrine ; as himselfe also stileth it in his 7 chapter ; and none ( saith he ) did contradict the Bishops words at that Conference .

Orthodoxus .

I haue by this time learned to lessen my wondering , to see ( which Saint Iude tells vs ) a raging waue of the sea , foaming out his owne shame ; hee hauing not a a Qui s●m●l V●●ccundiae limites trās●eri● , grauiter &c. once , but so often , leapt ouer all the limits of modesty . b b Ci● . Orat. pro S Ros●●● Amerino . Quod si luce quoque canes latrent , cum Deos salutatum aliqui 〈◊〉 , opinor ij● crura suff●ingantur , quod acres sint etiam tum , 〈◊〉 suspicio nulla s●t . 〈◊〉 est accusatorum ratio . The Romanes had a custome , if the dogs that kept their Capitall , did barke in the day time ' , or causlesly at friends , and those that came to worship their Gods , crura suffringere , to breake their legges . The Orator applies it to accusers . Yea , I haue knowne a poore dog beaten by his Master , for giuing warning of theeues approach . So easie it is to finde a staffe to beate a dog . And yet shall c c Appeale . part. 1. chap. 4. pag. 31. Censure pardon the Crow , and punish the Doue ? shall a man thus impune , lawlesly reproach Gods truth , his Church , his children , yea the prime Fathers of our Church , ( no small scandall to our Religion ) and yet be suffered to triumph and glory in his owne shame ? How ? d d 〈◊〉 ven●●m 〈◊〉 , vexat 〈◊〉 columb●● . The Lord Bishop of London , Doctor Bancroft , in publicke audience , with much vehemency , without any checke , dislike , distast , dissent , to stile praedestination a desperate Doctrine ? Is it possible , a Bishop of the Church of England should say so ? to call praedestination a desperate Doctrine ? And if he did so , is it credible , that such a speech , so vehemently avoucht in a publike assembly , should passe without hissing ? And in what assembly ? surely , where were present the most wise , learned , judicious , pious King in Europe , or in the whole World , the most renowned King IAMES : with many reuerend and learned Diuines . And none of these to check such a speech ? surely their honor and credit lies at the stake vpon it . But how doth it appeare , that the Bishop vttered such a speech ? How ? Pythagoras himselfe hath said it , M. Mountagu , the Appealer saith it . But by his leaue , by our former experience of his allegations , we will aske and enquire in the originall record , whither it be so , or on . In the summe of the Conference , pag. 29. line 8. wee finde these very wordes indeede , a desperate Doctrine . But what did he call a desperate Doctrine ? The doctrine of praedestination ? Nothing lesse . The Appealers wits are too nimble , out-running his his reason by many degrees . Wee must put a clog vpon his heeles , setting downe the whole passage of that vpon this occasion : The Bishop of London tooke occasion Summe of the Conference . pag. 29. line 1. to signifie to his Maiestie , how very many in these dayes , neglecting holinesse of life , presumed too much of persisting of grace , laying all their religion , vpon Praedestination , if I shall bee saued , I shall bee saued ; which he tearmed a desperate Doctrine , shewing it to be contrary to good Diuinitie , and the true Doctrine of Praedestination , wherein we should reason rather ascendendo , then descendendo , thus : I liue in obedience to God , in loue with my neighbour , I follow my vocation &c. therefore I trust , that God hath elected me , and praedestinated me to saluation ; not thus , which is the vsuall course of argument , God hath praedestinated and chosen me to life , therefore though I sinne neuer so grieuously , yet I shall not be damned . Thus the words run . Now I must confesse I am to try the matter at the Appealers owne chiefe weapon , euen the Syntax of Grammer , wherein he is no small Critick . He saith , that the Relatiue * * line 7. which , hath for the Antecedent , Praedestination . I a poore Punie say , Which , hath for his Antecedent , Presuming too much of persisting of grace , laying all their Religion vpon Praedestination , If I shall be saued , I shall be saued : Which , he tearmed a desperate doctrine . For it is plaine , the Bishop called not Praedestination , a desperate doctrine ; but the sinister conclusions , that carnall and impious men abusiuely draw from thence ; being of the number of those vnlearned ( in the true mystery of Christ ) and vnstable , which ( as Saint Peter speakes ) wrest this and other Doctrines of the Scriptures , and particularly of St. Pauls 2. Pet. 3. Epistles , to their owne destruction . Such wreched peruerting of the Doctrine of Praedestination , the Bishop calleth a desperate doctrine ; and not , Praedestination it selfe . For Praedestination , and the holy vse of it , ( such as the Scripture hath reuealed and described vnto vs ) he calleth good diuinitie , and true doctrine , laying downe very godly and anc●●tly , the right order and rule of euery faithfull mans particular vse , and application of Praedestination to himselfe ; namely , that we labour to know we are rooted in that deepe mystery of Gods Election in Christ , by the fruits of a liuely faith in all obedience . Thus and no otherwise doe the Scriptures teach . Thus and no otherwise doe all orthodox Diuines , euen Caluin himselfe , apply this Doctrine . Such the learned Caluin calleth Insti● . lib. 3. cap. 23. 12. plaine hoggs , that say , if they bee of the number of the Elect , their sins shall not hinder them from attaining to life . Facessant ergo &c. Away therefore with such sacrilegies , which wick●dly peruert the whole order of Election . And hee calls also such conclusions , blasphemies . So that the Bishop of London , Doctor Bancroft , and Master Iohn Caluin , say in effect one and the same thing , the one calling the corrupt conclusions , which carnall men draw from Praedestination , a desperate Doctrine : the other , the blasphemies , and sacrilege of hogges and swine , which is the very Doctrine of the Church of England , as it is excellently set downe in the Article of Praedestination and Election . 17. Thus wee see the Appealer hath brought his hogges to a faire market , while through poore Caluins sides he smites the Bishop of London , Doctor Bancroft ; yea , and the whole Church of England : and through all , by his vndisciplined solecisme , hee wounds Praedestination it selfe , while hee will needes haue it absolutely called A DESPERATE DOCTRINE . Carnall cauellers at Gods mysteries no ●ewes .

Nor is it a new thing , that carnall men stumble and cauill at the Doctrine of Praedestination . The Pelagians in Saint Augustines time did the like . Nor can I shape you a fitter answere , then hee did to them , and so to all aduersaries of this Doctrine of the grace of God , Nu● propter Aug. de bono perseuerant . lib. 2. cap. 16. malos &c , Is the truth of this Doctrine ( to wit , of praedestination ) to be forsaken , or shall it bee thought worthy to bee cancelled out of the Gospell , because of those that are wicked & cold ? Let the truth be spoken , especially , where any question doth require it to be spoken , that they may receiue it , who are capable of it ; least haply , while it is concealed , in regard of those that are not able to receiue it , they who are capable of the truth , wherby falshhood may bee detected , bee not onely defrauded of the truth , but may be ouertaken with falshood . And a little after , Nonne potius est dicendum verum , &c. Is not the truth rather to be spoken , that he which can receiue , may receiue it : than to be suppressed , that not onely neither can receiue it ; but also he that is more intelligent , may be made worse ? The enemy of grace is importunate , and vrgeth by all meanes , that it might be beleeued , that it is giuen vnto vs according to our merits , and so grace should now be no more grace ; and yet we will not speake that , which by the testimonie of the Scriptures , wee may speake ; for we feare , forsooth , lest if wee speake , hee that cannot receiue the truth , be offended : and we feare not , lest while we are silent , he which is able to receiue the truth , may be deceiued by error . For either is praedestination so to be preached , as the holy Scripture doth euidently declare it , that in those that be praedestinate , the gifts & calling of God may be without repentance or : else we must confesse , that the grace of God is giuen according to our merits , which is the opinion & wisdome of the Pelagians ; And againe , cap. 2 1. ibid. he saith , Nimiae contentionis est , &c. Itis too An● Ibid. cap. 2 1. much peruersues to contradict praedestination , or yet to doubt of it .

Babylonius .

But you know that the late wise and judicious King IAMES , of famous memory , did inhibite and restraine the preaching of the Doctrine of Praedestination , and Election .

Orthodoxus .

But in what respect ? His Maiestie did not restraine Preachers from the liberty of preaching the Doctrine of Praedestination , it being a speciall part of the Gospell ; but rather to giue caution , and direction , at least to yonger Ministers and Diuines , lest through want of mature judgment , in the manner of opening that mystery , and applying of it , they might haply , put a stumbling blocke before the in●udicious , and ignorant hearer , or those of weake consciences , As Saint Aug. denies not , but wisdome and discretion is to bee vsed in the preaching of it . For ( saith he ) it is not so to be preached to the ignorant multitude , as that the preaching of it may seeme worthy of reproofe . Nam dolosi vel imperiti medici est , &c. It is the Aug. ibid. propertie of a deceitfull , or an vnskilfull Physitian , so to apply , euen a wholesome plaster , as that either it doe no good , or else Comparison . hurt . This was the minde of his Excellent Maiestie of blessed Memory , in that his iniunction , to aduise all Ministers , to play the faithfull , and skilfull Physitians , in in the applycation of so wholsome , profitable , and comfortable a plaster and Doctrine , as the Church of England calls it , Art. 17 : though the Appealer doth flout his Informers , and those which call Praedestination a comfortable doctrine . Appeale pag. 39. But otherwise , his Maiestie himselfe of blessed Memory , hath left His royall record of this Diuine Doctrine , in his learned and Diuine Paraphrase of the Reuelation , the 20 chap. in the latter end , in these words , The Booke of life was opened to the Elect , that all those those whose names were written into it , to wit , Praedestinated and Elected for saluation before all beginings , might then be selected for eternall glory .

Babylonius .

Neither doth the Authour here simply oppose , or question the Doctrine of Praedestination and Election , but as it is deliuered by the new Diuines , as hee calls them , to wit , Caluin and his fellowes , whom he chargeth with a two-fold error as touching Praedestination : The first is , that they teach , ( especially Caluin ) that Gods eternall election , and praedestination was irrespectiue , and absolute , without any respect or reference to Adams fall : The second error of Caluin , is , in deliuering the doctrine of praedestination in such a rigid manner , as he doth .

Orthodoxus ,

For Master Caluin , there needeth none other Apologie , then his owne Workes or Writings , which shall euer praise him in the gate . For his workes , and in summe , his Institutions , if a man snatch at them ( as the Aegyptian dog , doth at Nilus , for feare of the Crocodile ) not obseruing his grounds taken from Scripture , nor well waighing his reasons : no maruell if such snatchers , prepossessed with a preiudicate opinion , can as easily open their mouths against such famous Authours , as the Dog can barke at the Moone-shine . But perhaps hee had no more quarrel to holy Caluin , then that fellow had to just Plutarch in the life of Aristides . Aristides , who not knowing Aristides by face , but onely by fame , that he was a just man , came to him vnwittingly to craue him to write downe his name for him , that hee might with the rest of the enuious Citizens consent to his banishment by their law of Ostracismon , because he so much excelled others in honesty . It may be he neuer read Caluins workes , much lesse his Institutions , to catechise him in the grounds of religion . Or perhaps , hee hates Caluin , as Ahab did the Prophet Micaiah , because his Doctrine is altogether against his Interim-religion , with all his confederate Intermiists . Orwhatsoeuer is the cause . Thus did Heretickes , by catching at the outward rinde and barke of some one part of Scripture , maintaine their Heresies . But I maruell what the Appealer could reade or heare of Master Caluin , that hee should write so contemptuously of him ; sauing that he was a holy man , faithfull and painfull in his calling , exercised with continuall preaching , writing , watchfull prouidence in gouerning ; a man of great learning , dexteritie of wit , sincerity of judgment , of great piety , equity , and sobriety of life , a true patterne and precedent of vertue . Therefore as Christ said , Many good workes haue I done among you , for which of these doe yee stone me ? so , for which of Caluins vertues doth this Authour tongue-smite him ? The most noble and judicious King IAMES of happie Memory , thought not so slightly of that learned Diuine , while he prefered his Commentaries vpon the Scriptures before all others . It were to be wished , that the Authour , going about to oppose such a worthy and famous man , had imitated the heathen Academicke Carneades , who , intending to write against the positions of Zeno the A. Gall 〈◊〉 . Attio . lib. 27 , cap. 15. Stoicke , did first purge his stomacke , and pectorall parts with white hellebore , lest some malignant humour possessing the stomacke , might distemper and imbitter his style , which is no lesse a disparagment to a professed Christian Diuine , than was wont to be of old , to the Heathen Philosophers .

But , not the person of so worthy a man , but his opinion is inueighed against . Well , what opinion ? about Praedestination , and Reprobation . But , I pray you , what is Caluins error about Praedestination ?

Babylonius .

In that he holdes it to be an act of an irrespectiue decree of God , ordaining some to saluation , others to torments , without any prerespect of good in the one , or of euill in the other , or without any reference to Adams fall .

Orthodoxus .

Why , may not God doe so , if it please him ? Is not his will absolute and free ? And hath not the Potter power to make of the same lumpe , one vessell to honor , and another to dishonor ? Is it not said of Iacoh and Esau , twinnes , newly conceiued in the wombe , that before they did good , or euill , that the purpose of God , according to Election , Rom. 9. might stand , not of workes , but of him that calleth , The elder shall serue the younger ? And whatsoeuer God willeth , it must needes be iust . I would gladly see this place well solued . But to let that passe : what place doth your Authour alledge out of Caluin , for this his opinion ?

Babylonius .

Out of his Institutions , booke 3. chap. 21 sect. 5. you may reade his words here at large set downe by the Authour .

Orthodoxus .

This place , in my simple judgment , doth not conclude necessarily , and such opinion , as he is charged withall . For , it proveth not , that God in his eternall decree , had no respect to the corrupt masse in Adams fall ; Euery man is created to that end , to which God hath ordained him . True . For God doth nothing , but for a speciall end . But is this creation meant of Adams first creation ? That is not necessary . For although all men might be said to be created in Adams loynes , yet it is onely potentially , and seminally . So that , if Caluin may as well bee vnderstood to speake of the particular creation of euery man in his generation , as of his generall creation in Adams loynes before his fall , charity should induce a Christian , to interpret in the better part , where there is not euidence to the contrary . But what if Caluin doe in expresse wordes otherwhere acquit himselfe of what the Appealer thus calumniously chargeth him with all in this point ? As indeede he doth in sundry places , where he saith . That Gods Election and Praedestination , was not without speciall respect , and reference to Adams fall , and to the corrupt masse : as is euident in the 22. chap. of the alledged booke , and seuenth section , saying , Quaeritur an natura ( elects ) : imò qui alieni erant , trahendo suos facit . It is demanded , Calu. Insits . lib. 3. cap. 22. sect. 7. whether they are by nature elect : yea , they which were strangers and aliants , by drawing them , hee maketh his owne . So that God chose them , finding them strangers . And a little after in the same section , Si quis roget , vnde elegerit , alibi , respondet Christus , Ex mundo , quem à precibus suis excludit , vbi Discipulos Patri commendat . If any aske , whence he chose them , Christ answereth elsewhere , Out of the world , which he excludeth from his prayers , when he commends his Disciples to his Father . If then they be chosen out of the world , and the world be meant of all the wicked , as heere ; then what else can Caluin meane hereby , but that Gods eternall election had a speciall reference to that world of wickedness packt vp in Adams sinfull loynes after his fall , out of which hee made his Election ? And yet more expresly and punctually , being vrged by the Aduersaries of Gods Election , in his 22. chapter of the same booke , and 11 section , Fatemur communem noxam , Calu. Instit. lib 3. cap. 23. sict . 22. sed dicimus qui busdam succurrere Dei misericordiam : Wee acknowledge a common lapse in all , but wee say that the mercy of God succoureth some . And he concludes with the judgment and words of Saint August , highly praysing his saying , Duid in primo homine &c. Seeing in the first man , the whole masse of mankind fell into condemnation , those which one Aug. Epist. 106. De praedest . & gr●● De b●n● per●●●●● . cap. 12. of it are made vessels vnto honour , they are the vessels , not of their owne righteousnesse , but of Gods mercy : but that others are made to dishonour , is not to be imputed to iniquity , but to iudgment . That God recompenseth due punishment to them whom he reprobateth , and on those whom he calleth , bestoweth vndeserued grace : he is freed from all accusation ; by the example of a Creditor in whose power i● is to remit one , and to exact his debt of the other . The Lord then can giue grace to whom he will , because he is mercifull ; and not giue to all , because he is a iust iudge . By giuing to some that which they deserue not , he sheweth his free grace ; by not giuing to all , he declareth what all do deserue . For when Paul writeth , that God hath shut all vnder sinne , that he might haue mercy vpon all ; we areto adde withall , that he is debtor to none , because none hath giuen to him first , that he should exact a recompence . And Caluin vpon Iohn , chap. 15. 16. hath these expresse words to confirme 〈◊〉 in Ioh. cap. 15. ver. 19. the former . Si ●lecti fuerunt ex mundo , &c. If the Elect were chosen out of the world , it followeth that they were a part of the world , & separated from the rest that perish , by the only mercy of God : Moreouer by the name of world , Christ in this place , noteth all those , which arenot regenerate by the holy Ghost .

This is so evident to cleare Calvin from all calumniation concerning this poynt , that it retorts a just censure vpon those , that taking a mans saying by snatches , and not reading and waighing the whole throughly , doe bewraye rather want of judgement and charity in themselues , while they would clap their owne bitter censures , and sinister interpretations vpon others ; then either of vnsetled judgment , or vnfound learning in those , whom they so rashly and impiously traduce . But for the Appealer , I can blame him no more for dealing thus with Caluin , and with those whom he calls Caluinists , then he hath done the Reuerend * * As the Bishop of ●ondon , and th● Bishop of 〈◊〉 , Deane of Paul● . Fathers of our Church forementioned , as also with Saint Augustine , in the forecited sentence , which according to the Appealers lopping of it , begins with Credendum est , &c. opposing one dismembred sentence of Saint Augustine , against the whole current of his writings in that point : as hee hath one misdeemed sentence of Reuerend Master Caluin , against his sound judgment , in sundry other places of his diuine volumes , expresly set downe . His doctrine being none other , but the very same with that of the Church of England , Art. 17 : so that all the Appealers calumniations cast vpon Master Caluin , doe strongly reuerberate and rebut vpon our deate mother Church of England : he not sparing to smite her through the very loynes of her dearest children , whose names shall euer be renowned , both for learning and pietie , while the world standeth .

Now what other irrespectiunesse of Gods irrespectiue decree , the Appealer would so irrespectiuely fasten vpon the learned and reuerend Caluin , I cannot conceiue , vnlesse he meane an irrespectiuenesse in Gods praedestinating , without any respect or preuision of their workes , as a grand error , which hee chargeth Caluin with ; neither would I willingly , or wittingly , conceiue or coniecture of the Appealers extended sense otherwise than by himselfe is not onely intended , but clearly enough expressed ; as may be seene in his 7. chapter 1. part , in sundry places . But for Master Caluin , wee haue sufficiently cleared him from the Appealers calumny , notwithstanding hee As pag. 64. & 74. spend a great part of his said 7. chap. in heaping vp testimonies of Fathers ; and all vpon a false surmised ground , and so all to no purpose , except to vent , ( I would , to cure ) the ouerflowing of that humour of the Gall , which hath caused his Appeale , to bee all ouerspread with the yellow , yea , with the blacke Iawndise . For Master Caluin holds with Saint Augustine , Gods election to bee out of the corrupt masse : and reprobation of the rest , already condemned by that sentence of death ; In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt dye the death .

But for the Appealers owne opinion , concerning Gods decree of election and praedestination , it may not be passed by in silence . First hee saith , There must needes first bee a disproportion , before there can bee conceiued Election , or Derelection . Blasphemous heresye , and sacriledge . What he meaneth by disproportion , hee tells a little after ; namely , betweene those , who now condemned in Adams laynes , God did forsee would accept of deliuerance offered them , in , and by Christ ; and the rest , whom he foresaw , Pelagian free-will maintained by the Ap●●●●● . would reiect this deliuerance . His very words are , God out of his mercy , &c. stretched out to them ( that is , to all , now condemned in Adams loynes ) deliuerance in a Mediatour , the Man Iesus Christ ; and drew them out , that tooke hold of mercy , leauing them there that would none of him . So that by the Appealers saying here , no pradestination , without a disproportion , conceiued to goe before : and this disproportion , betweene the parties to be elect and reprobate , is discouered by Gods preuision of both their workes ; hee foreseeing that the one would receiue and accept grace offered , and the other refuse it : vpon which preuision , the Appealer would build Gods decree of pr●destination , and election ; an opinion , no lesse gracelesse , then groundlesse , and if I should call it , in plaine termes , most impious and blasphemous against Gods pure glory , and preciourgrace , although I should doe the Appealer no wrong in it , yet I should raise a Waspes nest about mine eares . But wee must not feare to speake the truth , and to oppose such blasphemy , because of mens mischieuous , and no lesse boundlesse , then groundlesse malice ; especially in such a case , wherein Gods glory is so deepely ingaged .

This opinion of the Appealer is very plausible to flesh and blood ; for mans pride would still be arrogating something to it selfe , and be a fingering of one of Gods speciall peculiars , his glory . This was that poison , which the Serpent infused , and breathed into our first Parents , Eritis sicut Dii &c. Yee shall bee as Gods , selfe-wise , and selfe-sufficient ; 〈◊〉 ●●lacte ●●tricis ●r●orem suxi●se ●ideamur . Tuscul. Qu●st . And this poyson wee haue all sucked in with our Nurses milke : wee will be at least fellow-sharers with God in the worke of our saluation . O , this pleaseth vs well . Saint Augustine himselfe confesseth , that hee was once of this opinion , that God elected men out of his preuision and foresight of their faith , &c. But this he imputeth to his ignorance in his yonger yeares , and therfore in his riper iudgment , and further insight into the mystery of God , hee retracteth his opinion , in his first booke of Retractations cap. 23. yet our age wanteth not gray heads , and white heires , who with their gr●●n● wits , will rather approue of the opinion of young , then the iudgment of old Saint Augustine , and to retract his Retraction .

Now for this opinion , of Gods Election , ruled by his praescience , or premission of workes , if we seeke some eminent authoritie , and venerable antiquity for it , S. Augustine can best resolue vs . For the Antiquitie of it , wee haue Saint Augustines time : for authoritie , the Pelagian heresie . Praesciebat ergo , &c. He foreknew then ( saith the Pelagian ) who would be holy and immaculate , by their free-will , and therefore in that his praescience , whereby he fore-knew they would be such , he Elected them before the foundation of the world . Which opinion of Pelagius , now reviued Aug. de predest . lib. 1. cap. 18. by our Appealer and his , S. Augustine answereth most divinely from the Scriptures , Intueamur ergo , &c. Let vs therefore peruse the words of the Apostle , and let vs see whether God did therefore chuse vs before the foundation of the world , because we would become holy and immaculate , or that we might be so ? Blessed be God , saith he , and the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ , who hath blessed vs in all spirituall Eph. 1. 3. blessings in heavenly places in Christ according as he hath chosen vs in him , before the foundation of the world , that wee should be holy , and without blame before him in loue . Non ergo quia futuri eramus sed vt essemus , He chose vs , not therefore , because we would be such , but that we might be such : Nempe certum est , &c. For it is certaine , for it is manifest , that therfore we would become such , because he chose vs , predestinating vs , that we should become such by his grace . And marke ( saith he ) what the Apostle addeth . Secundum pl●citum , &c. According to the good pleasure of his will , lest in so great a benefit of the grace of God , we should glory in the pleasure of our owne will . And much more doth this holy man sweetly apply to the same purpose , out of that heavenly Chapter , the first to the Ephesians , whereof he saith , Nimis longum est de singulis disputare , It were too long to traverse every circumstance . And he concludes , Cer●itis autem proculdubio , &c. You see then doubtlesse , you see with what evidence of Apostolick eloquence , this grace of God is defended , against which , humanie merits are advanced , as if man gaue something first , that he should bee recompensed . Rom. 11. 35. Elegit ergo , &c. God therefore chose vs in Christ , before the foundation of the world , praedestinating vs vnto the Adoption of sonnes ; not because we would of our selues become holy and blamelesse , but bee elected and praedestinated vs , that wee might be such . And this he did according to the good pleasure of his will , that no man should glory of his owne , but of Gods good will towards him Out of this purpose of God , is that calling , which is proper to the Elect , to whom all things cooperate for good , because , according to his purpose , not their owne , they are called to be Saints , &c.

And to cleare this point yet more , he induceth an obiection of some , who , though aduersaries in part to the Pelagians , yet they would impute Praedestination to Gods praescience in regard of faith . The Pelagians ( say Aug. Ibid. cap. 19 they ) are of opinion , that receiuing once the commandement of God , wee become holy and immaculate of our selues , by our free will , which God foreseeing , did therefore , before the foundation of the World , elect and praedestinate vs in Christ , whereas the Apostle saith , Not because he foreknew we would be such , but that we might be such by the election of his grace , whereby hee hath made vs accepted in his beloued Son . When therefore hee praedestinated vs , hee knew his owne worke , who maketh vs holy and immaculate . So that the Pelagians error is rightly confuted by this testimonie . But we say : ( say these halfe - Pelagians , to mince the matter ) that our God foreknew not , saue onely our faith , whereby we begin to beleeue , and therefore elected vs to be holy , &c. To whom Saint Augustine answereth . Sed audians & ipsi &c. But let these also heare in this testimony , where he saith , In whom , ( that is , in Christ ) wee haue obtained an inheritance , being praedestinated according to the purpose of him , who worketh all things , after the counsell of his owne will ; that we should be to the praise of his glory , who first trusted in Christ Whence the holy man concludes , that seeing the Father worketh all things , therefore also faith , the first seede whereof the Apostle ascribes to the praise of Gods glory . And againe , Not of workes , but of him that calleth ; when he might haue said , ( saith Augustine ) But of him that beleeueth . Non enim &c. For not because we beleeued , but that wee might beleeue , he chose vs , lest we should be said to haue chosen him first ; and so that should be false , ( which God forbid ) you haue not chosen me , but I haue chosen you . And that faith is the gift of God , the Apostle saith , Ephess . 2. 8. Ioh. 15. 16. and Phil. 1. 29. also Heb. 12. 2. Iesus Christ , the Authour and finisher of our faith ; besides sundry other places cited by Saint Augustine , so that this good man leaues no corner vnhunted for this Pelagian Heresie to lurke in ; prouing and concluding euidently , and inuincibly from Scripture , that Gods election and praedestination is , most free , not depending vpon any his foresight of faith or grace to be in vs , but meerely according to his owne purpose and grace , whereupon our whole sanctification and saluation dependeth . According to that of the Apostle , As many as were ordained to eternall life , beleeued : beliefe , being a confequent Act. fruite of praedestination to eternall life . And that of Christ , yee beleeue not , because yee are not of my sheepe ; that Ioh. 10. 26. is of the number of Gods elect . Audiant hac , &c. saith Saint Aug. Let them heare those things , and other more , omitted Aug. Ibid. cap. by vs , whereby is shewed , that God doth prepare and conuert mens wills to the kingdome of heauen , and to eternall life . As the same Father saith elsewhere , I●●i cum Christo reg●abunt , &c. They shall raighe with Christ , whom God by his free Aug Deside ad Pet. Diaconum cap. 20. goodnesse hath praedestinate to the kingdome : for because by praedestinating such , he hath prepared them that they should be meet for the kingdome : he hath prepared them also to be called , according to his purpose , that they may obey : he hath prepared them to be iustified , that receiuing grace , they may rightly beleeue , and liue well : he hath prepared them also to be glorified , that being made co-heires with Christ , they may possesse the kingdome of heauen without end . And so hee concludes his former booke , M●lta diximus , &c. we haue said many things , and yet we speake to such good wits , to whom as if dull of vnderstanding , even that which is too much , is not enough .

Babylonius .

But doth not the Apostle say plainely , that those whom God forekn●w , he predestinated ? Therefore Rom 8. 29. did not God praedestinate men , according as he foresaw they would receiue ( or reiect ) grace offered ?

Orthodoxus .

Indeede this , and such like places of Scripture , doe the Arminians , our new Pelagians , pittifully peruert . But neither this place , nor the analogie it hath with other Scriptures will admit of any such sense . It is plaine , that this foreknowledge in God of those , whom he would praedestinate to life , is no other , but his very act of electing of them ; as the same Apostle expresseth it fully , Eph. 1. 4. 15. According as hee hath chosen vs in Him , before the foundation of the world , that we should be holy , and without blame before him in loue ; hauing praedestinated vs vnto the adoption of children by Iesus Christ to himselfe , according to the good pleasure of his will , &c. For Gods foreknowledge , of those whom he would saue , is his eternall act of loue in electing them , or his gracious pleasure and purpose , or decree●n sauing them . Wee know that Scitum , which comes of Scio , to know , is vsed for a Decree , as Plebiscitum , the peoples decree , so Gods foreknowledge here , is his foredecree . So also whom God is saide to know in Christ , is alwaies taken for his approuing or liking , or accepting them in Christ . This is his knowledge of approbation , whereby he knowes only his elect . So Psa. 1. 6. The Lord knoweth the way of the righteous : but the way of the vngodly shall perish . The Lord knoweth , that is , approueth and alloweth the way of the righteous . But doth not the Lord know the way of the wicked also●yes , by his knowledge of apprehension , but not , of approbation . For he saith ( in Math. 27. 23. ) to the wicked , I neuer know you ; depart from me , yee that worke iniquity . Gods knowing of his therefore , is his louing of them . Christ saith to Nath●●iel , Before that Philip called thee , when thou wast vnder the f●gge 〈◊〉 , I saw that . Vnder the Ioh. 1. 48. Aug. in Psal. 31. 〈◊〉 . 2. & de verbis 〈◊〉 , ser. 40. figge tree , what is that ? that is , saith August . in Adams ●oines , cloathed with his fig-leaues , in the state of sinne : then and there Christ saw Nathaniel , that is , his true Israelites , his chosen ; he saw him , that is , he tooke pitty on him , saith he . As the Lord saith in Ezechiel , 16. 6. I saw thee , when thou wast polluted in thy blood , and said vnto thee liue . Which place euen the Appealer himselfe vnderstands of Gods Election out of the corrupt masse .

Againe , the Apostle in Rom. 8. 28. and 29. ver. by you cited , saith expresly , that Gods foreknowledge is his purpose : for hauing saide , v. 28 , We know that all things worke together for good , to them that loue God , being the called according to his purpose , hee addeth , For whom he foreknew ; those he also praedestinated , &c.

Note againe , hee saith not , those , whose wills he foreknew , but , whom he foreknew : he speakes of their persons , not of their qualities .

And the Apostles next words doe ouerthrow this Pelagian opinion , that God foreknowing mans freewill , did accordingly praedestinate . For saith the Apostle , whom he did foreknow , hee did also praedestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son . So that , to be made conformable to the image of Christ , is not of mans will foreseene , but of Gods Praedestination , foreknowing or foreelecting in his Son , those whom he pleased . Therefore as Nescire Dei , reprobare est ( as Gregory saith ) as Gods not knowing is to reprobate ; alledging Luk 13. 27. Depart from me , I know Greg. moral . lib. 2. cap. 4. you not : so on the contrary , Gods knowing , or foreknowledge of his , is to elect them . This is the foundation of God which stands sure , and hath this seale , The Lord 2. Tim. 2. 〈◊〉 . knoweth them that are his . I could be more copious to illustrate this , but this may suffice to satisfie those that be not quarrellous .

Babylonius .

But Sir , howsoeuer you may conclude , that Gods Election is absolute , without any respectiue foreknowledge , of any good or grace in vs , in accepting grace offered : yet the same cannot so well be sayd of reprebation , that God should reprobate any , but with a respect and foreknowledge of their disobedience and infidelitie . For else , God should bee vniust , to cast away and condemne any without iust cause in themselues .

Orthodoxus .

Sir there is the same reason of reprobation , that is of Election , for both were out of the corrupt mafle wherein all men were equally condemned : whereof some God called , and chose out to life , the rest hee left as hee found them , guiltie of eternall death , and vpon whom the sentence of death had now passed & seazed , Gen. 2. 17 So that for God to leaue some , whom he would , wallowing in their blood , it is an act of his justice : as to free others , an act of his mercie . Which Saint Augustine very pregnantly exemplifieth by a Creditor , in whose power it is to acquit some of his Debtors , and to exact of the rest to the vttermost , as we noted afore . This is setforth also in the types of the elect and reprobate , Iacob and Esau , who being yet in the wombe , before they had done good or euill , that the purpose of God , according to election might stand , not Rom 9. 12. of workes , but of him that calleth , It was said to her , the elder shall serue the yonger . As it is written , Iacob haue I loued , but Esau haue I hated : Yet both Iacob and Esau were equally culpable in the wombe , of originall sinne , and so were children of death , as all were , in the wombe of our first Parents : but the election comes , and that makes a separation , and puts a difference , mercifully louing one , and justly hating another , and that before they had actually done good or euill , that the purpose of God might stand according to election , not of workes , but of him that calleth . So that the disproportion , alledged by the Appealer , was not betweene the elect and reprobate , before the act of election , but the election caused the disproportion , not through any foreknowledge , or foresight of any good or euill actually to bee done of either ( as the Appealer would inferre ) but Gods meere mercie on the one side , and his justice on the other , caused the disproportion . And euen that place quoted by the Appealer out of Ezechiell , makes altogether against himselfe , though Ezech. 16. Pag. 64 part. 1. otherwise rightly alledged ; for if wee were in our blood , if cast out , if loathed , if dead ; and yet , if in this contemptible condition , God saide vnto vs , liue , yea , when wee were in our blood ( it is twice repeated , ver. 6. ) he faide vnto vs , liue ; where is then that praescience of any good in vs , moouing God to pull vs out of this miserable estate ? I am sure , no mention of it is in Ezechiel , no not in the whole Booke of God ; but the contrary , as we haue proved ; no nor yet doth his pretended Goddesse , indeede his nothing in the world , the Church of England , any where teach the same ; so nakedly , yet shamlesly peremptory is this assertion of the Appealer , hauing none to father his opinion vpon , but Pelagius , and his Disciples . So weake and windy are his aspersions , which he casteth vpon Caluin , or vpon those whom hee calls Puritans , for maintaining nothing , but what the Scriptures plainely teach , against his groundlesse and gracelesse opinion : so that he fighteth against God and his truth , against Gods glory , and his grace , against his Church , yea the Church of England also .

Babylonius .

But Sir , if the act of Election and Reprobation be without any respectiue foreknowledge in God of any actuall good or euill in man , then what place is left for freewill ? or how can God bee just in punnishing the rebellious , seeing he hath reiected them , and denied them grace ?

Orthodoxus .

Of freewill I suppose occasion will be giuen anon to speake of it by it selfe . For the rebellious reprobate , as he is justly reiected for his sinne in Adam , so he is neuer but justly condemned and punished for all his actuall sinnes , springing from that cursed roote . Nor doth his reiection necessitate him to rebell the more against Cod ; his rebellion is from his owne peruerse will . Nor is God bound to giue him grace . But against all contentious quarrellers at the Doctrine of God , wee cannot shape , nor are we bound to giue a better answer , ( melius enim non invenimus saith St. August . many times against such cauellers ) for we finde not a better , then that of the Apostle vpon the very same occasion , Thou wile say then , why doth he yet complaine ? for who hath resisted his will ? Nay but o man ! who art thou that replyest against God ? shall the thing formed , say to him that formed it , why hast thou made Rom 9. me thus ? Hath not the Potter power ouer the clay , of the same lumpe , to make one vessel vnto honour , and another to dishonour ? &c. The comparison is very pregnant : God is the Potter , wee the lumpe , of filthy , and foule clay , cast out as the clay in the streetes ; yet if the Potter will , may hee not take some of the clay , and make of it , vessels of honour , and make of the rest , ( foule and filthy as he finds it ) to dishonour ? seeing it was in his power to put the whole lumpe , and that justly , to baser vses . But as the Apostle saith , God makes some , vessels of his mercy , to make knowne the riches of his glory ; leauing the rest to be vessels of wrath , sitted for destruction , to make knowne his iustice and power . In a word , if Gods election be an act of meere mercy , then it excludes all respect to any good , that hee could foresee to be in vs : for ( as the Apostle saith ) There is at Rom. 11. 5. 6. this present a remuant , according to the election of grace : And if by grace , then it is no more of workes ; otherwise , grace is no more grace . But if it be of workes , then it is no more grace ; otherwise worke is no more worke . What then ? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for , but the election hath obtained it , and the rest were blinded .

I will conclude with Saint Aug. Non solùm &c. Therefore by the preaching of Pradestination , the Elect is not onely Aug 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 perseuerant ●ib. 2. cap. 17. not hindered from this worke , to wit , of sanctification , but also is furthered thereunto , that when he glorieth he may glory in the Lord . The Pelagians could say , Si●●● &c. If yee will not Ibid. cap. 19. haue the obedience , to which you incite and inflame vs , to freeze in our hearts ; doe not preach vnto vs that grace of God , which we confesse God is the giuer of , and which you exhort vs vnto . But Saint Aug. meetes with them : Ego autem nolo &c. I ibid cap. 17. will not exaggerate the matter with my words , but I rather leaue it to them to consider , that they may see what that is , which they haue perswaded themselues , that by the preaching of praedestination , the hearers are possessed rather with desperation , then with exhortation ; for this is all one , as to say , that then a man despaireth of his saluation , when he hath learned to put his hope not in himselfe , but in God . Whereas the Prophet proclameth , Cursed is euery one , that putteth his hope in man . Miror ( saith he ) homines infirmitatis suae se malle committere , Ier 17. 5. Aug. de praed●●● . Sa●ll . lib. 1. cap. 11. quàm firmitati promissionis Dei : I wonder , that men had rather commit themselues to their owne infirmity , then to the stability of Gods promise .

Therefore we must not measure the wisdome of God in his word , by the last or model of our owne braine . Indeede mans reason , when it stands alone , seemeth very selfe-wise . But if it bee compared , and set by Gods wisdome , then the folly of it is by and by discouered . The Pontificians haue a plausible reason for their iustification by workes : because ( say they ) it is a meanes to stirre vp men to good workes . The Vniuersalists haue their plausible reason also for their vniuersality of grace , as indifferenly offered to all men alike , if they will but receiue it : because ( say they ) all men may hereby bee won to imbrace the grace offered , and so be saued . But we know , that neither the externall ordinary meanes are equally offered to all . For many thousands haue not the meanes at all , much lesse , in an equall measure . Againe , the ordinary meanes doe of themselues worke no more , but ordinary grace , as illumination , and temporary faith , &c. But the effectual sauing grace , though it be not wrought simply by the ordinary meanes , but by the especiall efworke of Gods Spirit in and by the meanes , yet we know that the ordinary meanes are to bee diligently and reuerently attended of all men , wheresoeuer God affordeth them . Howsoeuer , in all this generalitie , Gods purpose and grace remaines firme to all the seede onely ; this is Gods wisdome . Therefore if Gods worde satisfie not our carnall reason , but crosse it rather , shall wee presume by straining and wresting , to fit it to our owne fancy , and not rather submit all our humaine wisdome vnto it ? Euen Heathen Cato , following Pompeis part against Caesar , because he tooke it to be the juster , and seeing Pompeis side declining , and Pompey himselfe at last beaten out of the fielde : hee looked vp to heauen , and cryed , In rebus diuinis magnam esse Caliginem , that in diuine things there was a great deale of darknesse , which mans wit could not discouer . As St. Augustine in his answere to the Pelagians cauill , in quarrelling the Scriptures about the imputation of sinne , saith , Quid si ego essem hebetior , nec statim possem has rationes diluere : an propterea minus deberem diuinae Aug. Scripturae credere ? Imò mullo magis conuenit , vt ego ruditatem meam agnoscam , quàm vt falsitatem sacris literis impingam . What if my dulnesse were such , as I could not by and by disproue these reasons : must I therefore not beleeue the diuine Scripture ? Nay so much the rather ought I to acknowledge mine owne ignorance , then to impute falshood to Gods holy word . A rare humility and candid ingenuitie of this holy man , captiuating all his carnall reason to Gods profound wisdome in the holy Scriptures .

Babylonius .

But Sir , giue me leaue a little to apologise in the Appealers behalfe . You say , his opinion is impious , as impugning the glory and mercy of God . But doth he not say in expresse words , that God did out of his mercy , in his loue , motu mero ( they be his owne wordes ) and not otherwise , stretch out to mankinde , lying in their blood , in Adams corrupt loynes , deliuerance in a Mediatour , the Man Iesus Christ , and drew them out that tooke hold of mercy , & c ? so that you see , the Authour doth ascribe our deliuerance to the mercy and meere motion of Gods loue to mankinde . Therefore this his opinion is not so impious as you would make it , as if guilty of high sacriledge against Gods glory , and grace .

Orthodoxus .

Indeede Sir , you say something for him , as he doth for himselfe ; but that is said , is so far from acquiting , as it doth deepely accuse the Authour of high treason against the Maiestie of God , and the throne of his grace . True it is indeede , that it was Gods incomprehensible loue to mankinde , to ordaine for him such a Redeemer , as was his owne and onely Sonne , to assume our base nature , and therein to liue and dye contemtibly . An exceding great fauour of God towards man , to shape , make , and fit his Sonne Iesus Christ , as a most glorious robe , to couer our nakednesse ; as some of this Pelagian race , teachers of vniuersall grace , make the comparison . All this is well thus farre . But is this all ? If Gods mercy and grace stinte here , and goe no further , farewell deliuerance , we may wallow in our blood still , we may weare our filthy nakednesse , as our best garment still . In vaine Gods mercy , in vaine Christs death , while it is left to vs to receiue , and accept this grace . In vaine doth a man tell a blinde man of a glorious sunne in the firmament , which he wanteth eyes to see : or a maimed man , without hands , of a goodly garment made vp for him , vpon condition , that none but himselfe , must put it on ? such is our condition by nature , we perceiue not , we receiue not 1. Cor. 2. the things of the Spirit of God , concerning Christ . Tell vs of the glorious sunne of righteousnesse risen who hath healing vnder his wings : we are blinde , we apprehend it not , we are not affected with it , as not sensible of our spirituall Mal. 4. diseases . Tell vs of the Robe of Christs righteousnesse , dipped and dyed in his blood : wee want the hand of Esa. 63 1. 2. faith to put it on ; yea , we cannot duely prize it , we disesteeme it , we count it no better , then that poore coare of his , which the Souldiers cast lots for ; yea , wee hide our faces from him , hee was despised , and wee esteemed him not , saith Esay . Yea , we are by nature like those L●odiceans , we say , wee are rich , and increased in goods , and haue neede of nothing : and know not , that we are wretched , & I●● . 53. miserable , and poore , and blind , and naked . Reu 3. 17. But , as God is the good Physician , who of his meere grace and fauour , prepares and prouides a remedie for our dead-sicke soules : so he alone out of his free mercy must apply this remedy , else wee can reape no more benefit by it , then a sicke Patient of a soueraigne Cordiall , while it is close kept in the Apothecaries box , whereof he seeth the inscription and title onely . We haue a pregnant example hereof , in that man , that fell among theeues , who stript , wounded , and left him halfe dead , vnable to helpe himselfe ; Luke 10. whom the Priest and Leuite passe by on each side , without remorse ; but a Samaritan seeing him , comes to him , takes compassion on him , bindes vp his wounds , powers in oyle and wine , lifts him vp on his Beast , and prouides all things necessary Aug. de verbis Dom serm. 37. ●●m . 10. for him . The case is ours , Totum geuus humanum est homo ille , qui iacet in via seminivus , &c. saith August . All mankinde is that man , which lyeth in the way , halfe dead ; and though Christ the good Samaritan , come and take compassion of vs , and bring oyle and wine to heale our wounds ; yet vnlesse his compassion extend it selfe to apply them , we should still be wallowing in our blood , and so perish . Yet as Saint Augustine saith , Sunt homines iugrati gratiae , multum tribuentes inopi , sauciaeque naturae : Men are vngratefull ●ug . de verbis 〈◊〉 . ser. 2. ●●m. 10. to grace , attributing much to poore and wounded nature . Verum est , magnas arbitrij liberi vires , homo cùm conderetur accepit , sed peccando amisit . True it is ; Man when he was created , receaued a greater power of freewill , but by sinning lost it . And this doth St. Augustine apply to the man fallen among theeues , helped and healed by the mercifull Samaritan .

Well , how then come wee to bee made partakers of Christ ? Namely by the free gift of Christ . It is of Gods free fauour and mercy , that Christ is giuen , not onely for vs , but to vs : that Christ is not onely appointed of the Father to be a glorious garment to couer our shame , but also the hand of faith is giuen vs by the same grace of God , whereby we put him on , as the Father in the Gospell commanded the best robe to be fecht , and to bee put vpon his conuert prodigall sonne ; by the same grace our eyes are opened , to behold the glorious sonne of righteousnesse , risen in our horison , bringing life and health vnto vs . And as Christ came vnto vs , so wee must come vnto him : But how ? by the same grace and mercy that he came vnto vs , wee come vnto him . So Christ saith , No man can come vnto me , except the Father which hath sent me , draw him : and ver. 45. And they shall all be Ioh. 6. 44. taught of God . Euery man therefore that hath board , and hath learned of the Father , commeth vnto me . And ver. 65. No man can come vnto me , except it were giuen vnto him of my Father , vpon which wordes St. Augustine saith , Trahi Aug. de prede●● . san●●orum . lib. 1. cap. 8. a Patre ad Christum , &c. For a man to be drawne by the Father to Christ , and to heare and learne of the Father , that he may come to Christ , is no other , then to receiue a gift of the Father , whereby he beleeueth in Christ . And againe , Quando Ibid. Pater intus anditur , &c. When the Father is inwardly heard , and teacheth men to come to his Sonne , he takes away their stony Ezech. 11. heart , and giues them a heart of flesh . For so he maketh the sonnes of promise , and vessels of mercy , which he hath prepared vnto glory . Why then doth he not teach all , that they may come to Christ ? but that because all whom he teacheth , in mercy he teacheth ; and whom he teacheth not , in iudgment he teacheth not : because he sheweth mercy on whom he will ; and whom he Rom. 9 will , he hardneth ; but , he sheweth mercy , bestowing that which is good : he hardneth , recompensing that which is due . whereupon he concludes , H●nc est quòd verbum crucis pereuntibus stulitia est : his autem qui salui flunt , virtus Dei est . Aug ibid. Hence it is , that the preaching of the Crosse , is to them that perish , folishnesse : but to them which are saued , it is the power of God . This truth is so cleare , it needes no further testimonie . So that to ascribe part of our saluation to God , and part to man , is artificially to rob God of his glory , and man of saluation : seeing not onely for the Father to appoint his Sonnes , to be the Mediatour and Redeemer of mankinde , but also effectually to giue him to all his elect , giuing them grace and faith whereby to receiue him , are two noble inseparable branches growing from one and the same roote of Gods free mercy . Neither can the one stand without the other ; for take away this latter act of Gods mercy , inabling vs to receiue Christ , and the former , of appointing Christ to bee the deliuerer , would be altogether frustrate , as depending vpon mans will to receiue , or reiect him , as the Vniuersalists falsly affirme . Therefore giue God his whole glory , or else yee rob and strip him of all . So that I may say of the Appealers dealing herein , as our learned Master Hooker in his tract of Iustification , saith of the Romish Church in the matter of our Redemption by Christ . They grant ( saith he ) that Christ alone hath performed the worke of Redemption sufficiently for the saluation of the whole world ; but in the application of this inestimable treasure , that it may be effectuall to their saluation : how demurely soeuer they confesse , that they seeke remission of sins , no otherwise then by the blood of Christ , vsing humbly the meanes appointed by him , to apply the benefit of holy blood ; they teach indeede so many things pernicious in Christian faith , in setting downe the meanes , whereof they speake , that the very foundation of faith , which they hold , is thereby plainely ouerthrowne , and the force of the blood of Iesus Christ extinguished . So he . The very like may be applyed to the Appealer . For he , with his Arminians , howsoeuer they acknowledge the meere mercy of God , in prouiding such an all-sufficient Sauiour to redeeme mankinde ; yet they marre all in their applying this plaister of mercy , while they would doe it with the hand of freewill , the foresight whereof was ( forsooth ) the first mouer of Gods meere mercy . Sure if so , they must needes abate no small part from meere mercy . For how is it meere mercy , if any good in vs foreseene , first caused it , that it should offer a Sauiour to vs ?

Babylonius .

Now see , you seeme to touch vpon the Freewill . point of Freewill , which my Authour treateth of in the next Chapters , the 8 , 9 , and 10. following in order that , which hath hitherto beene discussed . And to my simple vnderstanding , that which he writes of it is very Catholicke , and such as wherein he ascribeth , the receiuing of grace offered , not simply to Freewill , but primarily to Gods grace , preparing and stirring vp the will vnto it . But I desire to heare your opinion of this point also , as he hath handled it .

Orthodoxus .

With a good will . But for as much as by the Authours owne words , it is accounted , a Question of perplexed obscurity , I purpose not to tread the whole maze , wherein the versatilous wit of man hath made infinite windings , I will be very briefe , omitting his various and copious allegations of Authours opinions . So that passing by the eighth Chapter , as empty : the ninth also , as full of quotations ; I will touch onely one or two passages in his tenth Chapter : In the second page whereof , whereas he saith , that in Adam , and through his fall , we haue not lost nature but grace ; this seemes to imply , that Adam in his innocency , had grace . For else , no man can be said to loose , what he neuer had . But what grace ? The grace that comes by Iesus Christ , which is the onely grace the Scripture speaketh of ? Surely , that , he had not ; for August . de corrept: ●t gratia . before his fall , he needed not Christ ; as Augustine saith ; yet he addeth , Adam , non habuit gratiam ? imo habuit magnam , sed disparem . Had not Adam grace ? yes , great grace , but farre vnlike that which commeth by Iesus Christ . He might be saide rather to haue naturall graces ; that is , all ornaments , and endowments of an absolute and compleat naturall man , as hee was ; then simply that which the Scriptures calleth grace ; for grace came by Iesus Christ . But this by the way .

The two principall things I note , is first his allegation of the Councell of Trent , touching freewill : the second , his approbation of it , seconded with his owne d●fini●iue sentence , tanquam in Cathedra . So that howsoeuer he seeme to hold with the Church of England , and of Protestants in the point of freewill , yet the whole concatenation of his other Doctrines with this , ( as of falling from grace totall or finall , praedestination vpon a Preuision of mans willingnesse to receiue grace vniuersally offered , and the like ) doth necessarily conclude , that he holds , the very freewill of the Pelagians , & not only that of the Pontificians . For all these Heresies are so combined together , as so many members compact in one in●●re body , or as so many wheeles in a rack , each receiuing motion from other . But for breuitie , because he makes no difference betweene the Decree of the Councell of Trent , and his owne , yea , and the Tenent of the Protestants Church : therefore it shall suffice to touch vpon the Councel of Trent onely ; and so , if that proue sound , well and good . For then the Protestant Church , holding therein with the Councel of Trent , will proue to be beholden to the Appealer : else , but a little , for shuffling vs in the same pack of Trents freewill .

I take his words , pag. 98. quoted out of his former booke of the Gagge , for which he is taxed : Our conclusion ( saith he to the Popish Gagger ) and yours , is all one : wee cannot , we do not deny freedome of will in man : whose doth so , is no Catholicke . I adde , no , nor Protestant . These bee his words . Now all the controuersie about freewill , is it not in regard of the grace of Christ , with relation vnto it ? Else , what needes all the stirre about it ? For that is the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; therein lyes the state of the Question . For all confelle , as well Protestants , as Papists , that the naturall man hath some reliqu●e● left of Adams naturall freewill , we yeeld it , not to bee altogether extinct , no more then his other faculties of the soule . But the Protestant Church , the Church of England , denyeth , that by nature we haue any freewill dispositiue to grace . But this is the marke , which the Councell of Trent , the standard rule of the Romish Church , shoote at , namely to aduance mans naturall freewill vnto grace : onely confessing , it is so weakened & maimed by the fall of Adam , that it needeth some diuine helpe to enable it the better to receiue grace . As St. Augustine noteth of some more refined Pelagians , who Aug de bono perseuerant . lib. 2. cap. 16. though they will not confesse , that those are Praedestinate , which by Gods grace are made obedient , and permanent , yet they confesse a kinde of preuenting grace . But how ? Ideo vtique &c. No otherwise , but least grace should be thought to be giuen gratis , as the truth speaketh , but rather according to the merits of mans precedent will , as the Pelagian error gainsayeth , against . This being also the Doctrine of the Councell of Trent , howsoeuer the Appealer iumpe with them , and ioyne the right hand of fellowship : yet ( for ought I know ) hee must goe alone with them , for any consent or countenance the Church of England will giue him in this his confederation . For all orthodox , & true Protestants deny & disclaime any freewill at all in a naturall , or vnregenerate man , vnto grace ; I meane , the sauing grace of Christ . Naturall men haue it not , no nor Adam in his purest naturalls , euer had such a freewill . For the will must follow the vnderstanding , seeing it cannot affect good , vnlesse first the vnderstanding apprehend it . For Ignoti nulla cupido . That which a man knowes not , he desires not . That the eye seeth not , the heart sueth not after . To this purpose , Aquinas saith well , that , Those things , which pertaine to faith , doe exceed Aqu. Si● . 22. q 6. 1. 〈◊〉 . Ea qua sunt fides , excedunt rationem , humanam . & , Homo , assentiendo his , quae sunt fidei , eleuatur supra naturam suam . humaine reason . And , Man , by assenting to those things , which are of faith , is eleuated aboue his nature . And againe , * * ●b . q. 114. 2. c. Hoc est ex institutitione diuinae prouidentiae &c. This is by the appointment of diuine prouidence , that nothing should worke beyond its proper vertue . But eternall life ( saith he ) is a certaine good , exceeding the proportion of created nature , because it also transcendeth the knowledge and desires of it . And hee concludeth , that not euen Adam could attaine to eternall life , without a supernaturall grace . What needes then all that adoe about the quantity and measure of naturall freewill remaining ●n man , when it wants the qual●●y and property , to qualifie it any way towards grace ? There is in vs , as naturall men , a naturall freewill still ; it is no more lost , then other naturall faculties , the poore reliques of Adams perfections : but this will is but naturall , it reacheth no higher , then to naturall obiects . So that while the Church of Rome , or the Councel of Trent , so much adoring her Goddes Freewill , yet withall is forced to acknowledege a debility and lamnesse in it : they would faine perswade the world , that there is yet in our nature some antique venerable reliques of freewill , disposing vnto grace . Hence it is that they haue a whole chapter of Preparation vnto grace , wherein they touch vpon freewill , as being the ground ( sandy though it be ) of their preparatory workes vnto faith and iustification , as also of all their meritorious workes . And therefore are they so eager to maintaine and treasure vp , at least some Reliques of Adams freewill ; least all should be attributed to Grace , and nothing to Nature , and then farewell all Merit , either of congruity , by preparation to grace , or of condignity to glory . So that , for this very reason , they anathe●ze all those , that say , Freewill is altogether lost . Wherein , if they will not confesse , that they which say so , meane , that a man vnregenerate hath no freewill vnto grace , then they cunningly equiuocate . But the case is plaine , all that their Doctrine driueth at , is to aduance mans naturall freewill vnto grace , as much as is possible . Therefore they say , that these remaines of freewill in man , though much lessened , and sore bruised with Adams fall , yet neede but a kinde of stirring vp , and awakning as it were , oriogging on the elbow , or helping vp being downe . So that it shares stakes with their first grace , as they tearme it , though in hypocrisy they would seeme to giue most to God . Therefore if this bee that , which the Appealer sticks not to approue in the Councell of Trent , I will bee bold to say as Saint Ierome did to the Pelagians * It is the Churches victory , that you vtter your 〈…〉 , contra P●lagianos . 〈◊〉 . 1. tract . 2. 〈◊〉 . 13. mindes plainely ; Sententias vestras prodidisse , superasse est : to discouer your opinions , is to discomfit them . And for him to say , that God prouided a Mediator for all such , whom he foresaw would receiue him , to wit , by the freedome of their will , were a meere absurdity , if man haue not an absolute freedome to grace . And by the Appealers approbation of the Councell of Trent in the point of freewill , he must confesse , that man in his Naturalls hath at least some free-will to grace . Which will agree well with that he said before , touching Gods foresight of those would lay hold on grace ; otherwise it implies a flat contradiction . For if there be no freewill in a naturall man towards grace : then what willingnesse did God foresee in men to receiue his Son , vnlesse that , which himselfe did purpose wholly to worke in them ? Although not Gods owne worke , which hee purposed to worke in man , by giuing him faith & grace , was that , which foreseene , moued him to elect and praedestinate to saluation ; for then the meanes should in Gods first intention to saue mankinde , haue taken place of the end it selfe , which in the priority of order , is the first in intention , though last in execution ; yea , haue taken place also of Gods eternall free loue , the prime motion , and sole absolute cause , that moued him to make his election of those whom he would , not who would him .

But the Councell of Trent , and who so take part with it , deales coldly , and comes farre short in giuing Gods grace , the due praise in the worke of mans saluation . So that while they aduance mans will , too high , and too much depresse Gods grace , they so part the stakes , that they giue the right hand rather to freewill , then to grace . For what saith the Councell ? Si quis dixerit &c. If any Cencil . Trid. Sess. 6. can 4. Si quis d●x●rit , &c. man shall say , that mans freewill , moued and stirred vp of God , doth cooperate nothing , by assenting to God stirring vp , and calling , wherby it may dispose and prepare it selfe to obtaine the grace of iustification &c. Let him be accursed . In this very Cannon is inuolued a great part of the mysterie of iniquity . For note here Romes Legierdemam in iuggling with Gods grace . She ascribes to God two things : 1. a worke of mouing and stirring vp the will . 2. Touching the obiect , or end of this worke , that the will may , by the cooperation of a free & selfe assenting , dispose & prepare it selfe to obtayne the grace of iustification . Examine we the words a little . Note what a slight and slender worke they here attribute to God ; it is with them , but a moving and stirring vp , iust like the confederate Arminians lenis suasio , some gentle motion ; as if the will were but a little dull and lazy , and must be spurred , or sleepie and drowsie , and must be awakened , as Elias bad Baals Prophets to cry alowd , to awake their sleepie God . Yet this moving and shirring vp , their Schoole-men , and in particular , Andrew Vega , and Dominick Soto , two grand sticklers in that Councel , & who being the two standard bearers of two strong different factions in that Councel , the one of the Dominicians , the other See Hist. Concil. 〈◊〉 . of the Franciscans , bore a great swinge , and sway in it , and haue written large Commentaries vpon that sixt , the mayne and masterpiece - Session of that Councel ; as also Catharinus , of that Councell too ; and so Bellarmine & others of that crew : they expresse this Motion ( I say ) & stirring vp of the will , to be vnderstood , as an act of the * * This 1. grace , is called by the Councel , their preuenting grace . S●●● , 6. cap. 5. first grace ; a grace which the subtile Schoolemen haue deuised , distinct from their second grace . Which Schoole-diuinity and subtile Sophistry , is the yery ground worke of all the maine Decrees of the Councel , especially of those , contained and most cunningly contriued in that sixth session , concerning Iustification . Well . But what may this first grace be ? Truely no other , by their owne Doctrine , but such , as a man may haue , and yet never attaine to iustification , and so to salvation , yet such a grace they say it is , as by moving and stirring vp , the will cooperates to giue assent , and to dispose and prepare it selfe to receiue iustification , to wit , an infusion of inherent grace , which they call the Second grace ; and so the will , by giving free assent by disposing and preparing it selfe , doth merit of Congruity the second grace ; although the Councel confesseth , that the first grace is given freely without any precedent merit Ibid. in man . By which one devise of a poore ( I wot not what ) first grace , whereby a man is not at all ( by their owne confession ) iustified , and so will scarce proue worth God haue mercy : they would elude and evacuate the Scriptures , which so much advance and magnifie the worke of Gods free and effectuall grace , in our first conversion and iustification ; as Rom. 3. 24. Being iustified freely by his grace , through the Redemption that is in Christ Iesus . For they turne the cat in the pan ; and because they cannot deny the expresse Scripture , so pregnant and plentifull in setting out the free and vndeserved grace of God in mans salvation , but are forced at least in words to confesse it : therefore they haue no other shift , but to restraine this free gift of Gods effectuall sauing grace , to that onely which they call their first grace , though no iustifiying grace at all . Whereas the Apostle expresly in the forementioned place , speaketh of the free gift of saving grace , whereby wee are indeed actually iustified . But the Trent Councell saith no where , that that grace , whereby a man is iustified , which they call their second grace , is freely given . No , they haue a freewill , whose cooperating assent with their first grace , produceth a merit of Congruitie , to procure , that their iustification may not be freely given , but merited of Congruity . For whereas they say ( chap. 8. ) ●ess . 6. cap. 〈◊〉 . that a man is said therefore to be iustified freely , because none of those things , which goe before iustification , whither faith or workes , doe merit the grace it selfe of Iustification ; for if it be of grace , it is no more workes ; otherwise ( as the Apostle saith ) grace , is now no more grace ; as the Councell hypocritically alleadgeth : yet wee must vnderstand , that the Councell meaneth no other here , but to exclude merit of condignity from going before her iustification , but not the merit of congruity . And thus by her cunning equivocation , she both keepeth good quarter with her Schoolmen , and satisfieth the contrary opinions of Vega and Soto , about the merit of Congruity in justification , as ye may see in the History of the Trent Councell . yea , and thus also the Church of Rome quits scores with the Scriptures , which exclude all merit of man from iustification ; and all by her futile distinction of a first and second grace , and subtile equivocation of Merit , of congruity and condignity . This is Romes sophistry , and the very Mystery of iniquity .

In the next place ; by their wills assenting vpon Gods moving of it , they meane an assent of beleife of the truth revealed in the Scriptures , namely a generall & historicall faith : as Sess. 6. chap. 6. And as * Soto plainly commenteth vpon 〈◊〉 na● . & gra . li. 2. c. 7. it ; so And. Vega also . For by the way it is to be observed , that in that whole Session , there is not once the least mention made of credere in Deum , to beleeue in God , which is the Act of true iustifiyng faith . And therefore no maruaile , if the Councel be not ashamed to confesse , in the front and title of the 15 chap. and so in the chapter it selfe , that by * * Quelibet mortall peccate , a●●●i●ti gratiam , viz iustificationis , sed non fidem . euery mortall sin , the grace of iustification is lost , but not faith . So that their Romane Catholicke faith is one thing , and their grace of iustification another . Now summe vp all this together , concerning this worke of God vpon mans freewill , and the totall is . That God doth no more , but moue and stirre , and call vpon the will , not by that inward and effectuall calling according to his purpose , but by an outward , ordinary , common calling , which is no more , but as a kinde of Monitor to the will . Nor is God here said , by this grace , to giue faith , but to stirre the will to an historicall assent of faith ; generally beleeuing the things reuealed to be true , by their wills cooperation with their first grace , which is no more any sauing grace , then their faith occasioned by it , any iustifying faith . Thus wee see , how the Church of Rome , by her crafty mincing , and malicious mangling of the grace of God in mans free iustification , how by robbing from the worke of Gods grace , to ●●rich their Freewills co-worke : she vtterly frustrateth Gods grace , and euacuateth his glory , making a meere mocke of both .

For doe but weigh these two together in the scales one against the other , Gods grace , and Mans freewill , and the difference according to Romes vniust estimate , will easily appeare . Grace onely stirreth and moueth , say they , but the will is actiue , and by its cooperation assenteth : grace , only calleth , after a common and ordinary maner , iust like the vniuersall grace ; but the will disposeth and prepareth it selfe ; grace , is freely giuen , onely in this respect , by preuenting the will in stirring and mouing , but not in iustifying the sinner : but the wills selfe-disposition and preparation to iustification , is a merit of congruity , meriting the second grace , to wit , of iustification , a farre greater grace ( I wis ) then the first grace , the onely grace freely giuen of God . So that Romes merit of congruity , arising from her well disposed freewill , is of more value and vertue , then Gods free mercy ; for this , giueth onely the first grace freely , a sorry and slender grace : but that , meriteth a farre greater grace , euen of iustification it selfe .

Here then euery man may easily judge of Romes egregious hypocrifie , insolent sacriledge , and false-fingering , who while shee would seeme to giue the preeminence to Gods grace , onely by colouring it ouer with the title of grace , as of first grace , and preuenting grace , and the like : in the meane time she aduanceth her owne freewill aboue the skies , yea aboue grace , aboue God and all . Fulfilling that , which Bernard saith , It is high impiety , to attribute to God , that which is lesse , and to our selues that which is more excellent . Bern. degra . & lib. arbit. Nef●● est , &c. Now if a man should neuer so much seeme to ascribe the praise of Sampsons Acts against the Philistims , to Dalilah , because she awakened , and stirred him vp ; will any beleeue him ? It is against all reason . The case here is alike betweene grace and freewill . Freewill is a sleepe , bound hand & foote in the cordes of sinne : but grace comes , and awakenes it , bids it arise ; whereupon the will begins Sampson-like to rowse it selfe , to shake of the bands , to prepare and dispose it selfe to the atchieument of some great worke . Whither then deserueth greater praise , grace awakening , or , freewill so brauely acting ? Though I confesse my shallow wits would neuer haue beene able to haue sounded the depth of this profound mystery , to haue discerned a cleare difference betweene their first grace , giuen of gratuity , and their freewills merit of congruity , but that they haue told vs plainly without equinocating , that the second grace , which they obtaine by their merit of congruity , is of farre greater value , then the first grace , though bestowed of free gratuity .

But I feare , I haue exceeded the bounds of my promise , and purpose for breuity . But pardon mee . I haue ben in the perplexed Labyrinth of the Councell of Trent . Now by that we haue said , wee may see , what reason any man ( at leastwise so mighty lie protesting and professing himselfe to be no Papist , as the Appealer doth ) hath , so much to countenance , yea to plead for the Councel of Trent in the point of freewill ( so , as I dare say , no Lawyer would doe , in a case so corrupt , not for the best fee ; though I know not what fee or feeling Maister Mountagu hath , for playing Romes Proctor , except it be his blind affection , and some pale faced hope ) sith therein Rome hath laid the foundation of that her Babylonish fabrick of the mystery of iniquity , and of all her meretricious merits . So that I cannot see , how such men can be excused from high impiety against God , and euen joyning hands of fellowship with that most impious and blasphemous confederacy against the glory of God , and the grace and truth of Iesus Christ .

Babylonius .

Good words , I pray you . A man might speake as much for the Councell of Trent , as you doe against it ; but for my part , I will not vndertake that quarrell now . I desire that you will show the true difference , betweene the Councell of Trents Doctrine of freewill , and that which you take to be the true Doctrine . For is there any other Doctrine of freewill , then that of the Church of England , and of the Protestants , which the Appealer makes all one with the Doctrine of the Councell of Trent ?

Orthodoxus .

Sir , for my words , they are the words of truth and sobernesse . For our Protestant Doctrine of free-will , to be all one with the Councell of Trent ; God forbid it , we deny it : for Romes Doctrine to be all one with ours , Rome forbids , denyes , and accurseth . Nor doe I see , how the Appealer will escape the Popes direfull excommunication , Bulla confirmationis Concil. Trid. Pi● . 4. for daring so to comment vpon the Trent Councell , expressly forbidden by the Pope , without speciall authority . But I know not what speciall authority hee may haue from the Pope to doe this . Nor can the Councell of Trent haue any other patronage , then colourable pretence , and sophisticall showes , which are the best arguments the Appealer is able to bring for Trents Doctrine ; whereas the allegations against it feare no colours , sith armed with truth it selfe . But to satisfie your desire , according to my weake capacitie , I am not vnwilling .

As I noted before ; mans will in the state of nature , hath such a vast disproportion to the grace of Christ , as it hath no disposition at all vnto it . This is a mystery hid from Nature , a Transcendent far aboue the capacity of Natures reach . To this grace , nature is not bleareeyd , but blinde : not a sleepe , but dead : not lame , but a senslesse stocke . So that , more then a slender mouing or stirring vp of ( I wot not what ) first grace , ( I wot well , no grace ) is requisite to set the will a foote , to the setling of it in the state of grace : of that grace ( I say ) of true iustification , to which Romes first grace hath no more proportion , then her free-will in her pur●st naturalls .

But the grace , whereof the Scripture speakes , and the worke of it in mans conuersion , is no such grace , as Romes first grace ; for that is no other , but the true , and effectuall , sauing , iustifying , and sanctifying grace of God : the first act and worke whereof in the soules conuersion to God , is not a faint and impotent mouing and stirring , or awakening of the sleepy will , which then begins to dispose it selfe to grace : but it is a powerfull and effectuall worke vpon the will , and the whole soule , with euery faculty thereof , and that not to the disposing vnto , but to the present possessing of the state of grace , and true iustification , apprehended by sauing faith , the free gift of this grace . Besides this effectuall grace of God for mans conuersion , the Scripture knows none . Nor is the Scripture acquainted with such ieiune and faint termes , as Rome vseth , in setting forth the worke of grace in our conuersion . The Scripture flyes in a more lofty stile , to giue Gods grace the full prayse in the effectuall worke of our conuersion . Ezech. 11. 19. I will giue them one heart , and will put a new spirit within you ; I will take the stony heart out of their flesh , and will giue them an heart of flesh , that they may walke in my statutes . So Ezech. 36. 26 : A new heart also will I giue you , and a new spirit will I put within you , &c. and cause you to walke in my statutes . And this is ( as Augustine saith ) the taking away of our stony heart , and the giuing of a heart of flesh , when the Father is heard Aug. de predest . sanctorum . lib. 1. cap. 8. within , and teacheth vs to come , and draweth vs to his Sonne , by giuing vs a sauing faith in Christ . By which places wee see what a noble and powerfull worke of grace is wrought in vs by Gods holy Spirit in our conuersion ; not a bare stirring vp , or mouing , or helping the old , decrepit , stiff-limd will of the naturall mans stony heart , but a mighty remouing of * * removing the euill qualities , not the substance . it cleane away , and insteed therof , putting a new heart , a heart of flesh , a flexible , and obedient heart , and a new spirit into vs , by the vertue and power whereof , we are effectually inabled to walke in Gods statutes , and to keepe them . And this worke of grace , where begins it ? but at the very first act of our effectuall calling and conuersion , of our iustification , and sanctification from our sinnes , and against our sinnes ? As in the forecited place of Ezechiel , Then will I sprinkle pure water vpon you , and yee shall be cleane from all your filthinesse ; for a new heart will Ezech. ●6 . 25 I giue you &c , so in Ieremy , The Lord ioynes his grace , and remission of sinnes together ; saying , I will put my law in their 〈◊〉 . inward parts , and write it in their hearts , and will be their God , and they shall bee my people . For I will forgiue their iniquity and will remember their sinnes no more . The Lord in the Gospell compares the state of a naturall man vnregenerate , to a house possessed by a strong man . This strong man is Satan , the spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience , such as all vnregenerate are , who in that state are dominered ouer , and captiuated of the tyrant Diuel at his will . Who then shall binde this strong man , and dispossesse him of his house and strong hold , euen the heart of a naturall man vnregenerate ? Surely none , but a stronger then he , euen Christ . And is this done so slightly , as by stirring vp the will by some first grace ? No more but so ? The strong man will not so easily forgoe his hold . He must bee driuen out by strong hand . When the Disciples could not by all their delegated power , Christ must be faine to put to his immediate power & authority to driue the Diuel out . A sinner vnregenerate is as Peter Act. 12. fast asleepe , and fast chained in the dungeon . And to free him , did the Angel no more but with a iogge awake him ? How fell his chaines so easily of ? How came the prison dores open ? How the iron gate , leading into the citie , to open of it owne accord ? Surely here was no small power vsed . Nay the vnregenerate is like Lazarus , fast bound , and lying dead in the graue . And is it so easie a matter to raise him vp , to giue him life , and to free him from the bonds of death ? But you hath hee quickned , who were dead in trespasses and sinnes ; wherein once yee walked according to the course of this world , according to the Prince of the power of the ayre , the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience ; among whom also wee had our conversation in time past , in the lusts of our flesh , fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind . &c. Eph. 2. 1 &c. Our will being then captiuated , chained , imprisoned in the dungeon of death , kept and possessed by the strong man the Diuel : are we so easily freed ? Saint Chrysostome amplifieth this by an excellent comparison , or two : All men ( saith hee ) before sinne ( as once Chryst. in Mat. 21. hom. 37. in Adams loynes before his fall ) haue free will , to follow the Diuels will , or not ; but when once by sinne , wee haue captiuated our selues to his workes , wee cannot now free our selues , But as a ship , the rudder being broken , is carried whither the tempest will ; so man , having by sinne lost the helpe of divine Grace , doth not that which himselfe willeth , but which the Divell willeth ; and vnlesse God with a strong hand of mercy loose him , hee shall abide in the bonds of his sinnes even vnto death . And in the same place , he compareth mans will before sinne ( namely , in the state of Adams innocency ) to a free people or stare , in whose power and election it is , to chuse what King they will ; but hauing once chosen him whom they best like , it is not now in their power , vpon any dislike to depose him againe , although hee tirannize ouer them neuer so much ; none can free them from this grieuous bondage , but onely God . So it being once in the power of mans will , in the free state of innocency , to chuse a King , God , or the Diuel , hauing once by consent of sin made choise of the Prince of darknesse , who tyrant-like ruleth in the children of disobedience : it appertaines now onely to the mightie power , and infinite goodnesse of God to set free these miserable captiues out of that tyrant Pharaohs more then Aegyptian bondage .

Againe in the Acts of the Apostles , where it is said , that our hearts are purified by faith ; which some , as Aquinas , vnderstands of illuminating the vnderstanding by faith ; others , of the purification of the soule and heart from sinne by faith ; as we are said also to be sanctified by faith that is in Act 15. 9 Christ . Now this faith is the first worke of Gods grace , Act ●6 . 18. wrought in the heart , that is , in the whole soule , in our first conuersion ; by which faith , the vnderstanding is inlightned , and with it , the will , and all the other faculties of the soule are sanctified . For the heart in Scriptuee is taken oftentimes , for the whole soule , with all the faculties of it . As Ephesians 1. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : the vulgar Latin renders it word for word , Illuminatos oculis cordis vestri : the eyes of your heart being illuminated , that is , the eyes of your vnderstanding . And Math. 13. 15. Least they vnderstand with their heart . So for ●●e will : Act. 7. 39. The Israelites in their hearts turned backe into Egypt , that is , in their wills . So Acts 11. 23. Bernabas exhorts , that with purpose of heart , that is , of will , they would cleaue vnto the Lord . The heart is also taken for the memory , as Luke 1. 66 : All that heard , laid vp those things in their hearts . So Deut. 11. 18 : Yee shall lay vp these my wordes in your hearts . Sometime for the affections , as loue , feare , and the like . So Mat. 6. 21 : Where your treasure is , there will your heart be also , your loue , your ioy , your hope , yea and feare too . And Psa. 62. 10 : If riches increase , set not your heart vpon them . Thus wee vse to reduce all these streames of the soule to the heart , as the prime fountaine : as when we say , an vnderstanding heart , a wise heart , a willing heart , a valiant heart , an humble heart , a loving heart , and the like . Now the heart being taken for the soule , and all the faculties of it , and being the very seate and subiect wherein faith resides , ( for with the heart man beleeveth to righteousnes ; and Christ dwelleth in Rom. 10. Eph. 〈◊〉 . 17. our hearts by faith , ) then the heart being purified , being sanctified by faith , consequently the whole soule , with all the faculties , the vnderstanding , will , memory , affections , are at the same instant with the heart purified , and sanctified by faith , as the first act and worke of Gods grace in vs .

Hence it is euident , that the prime worke of Gods grace in the conuersion of a sinner , is not a slight and slender worke , as a bare stirring , mouing , or helping of the will to prepare and dispose it selfe to receiue the grace of iustification : but it is a mighty and powerfull worke , so that thereby the stony heart , harder and heauier then the hardest rocke , or highest mountaine , is remoued , and a new heart , a new vnderstanding , a new will , a new memory , new affections , all new in the qualities of them , are put insteed thereof . By this prime worke of grace , that most excellent grace of faith is wrought in the heart , whereby the whole man is sanctified .

Babylonius .

Sir , by the way , now you touch vpon a point , which , as I haue heard , is much controuerted among Diuines , namely about the subiect , or seat of faith , in what faculty , or power of the soule it resideth ; some placeing it in the vnderstanding onely , some in the will onely , but few , as you doe , in the whole soule , and euery power of it ; as the soule is said by the Philosopher , to bee whole ●nima est 〈◊〉 in toto , & tota in quali●●● pante . in the whole body , and whole in euery part of it .

Orthodoxus .

And you giue a very pregnant example , to illustrate this truth , that faith doth so fill and quicken euery faculty of the soule , as the soule doth the body . And the comparison holds well ; for Saint Augustine calls faith the soule of the soule : because it giues life to the whole soule , as the soule to the whole body . And the Scripture saith , that wee liue by faith , and faith by Christ ; as Gal. 2. 20.

Indeede those of the Church of Rome , are of different opinions in this point . Dominicus Soto sets it downe as a definitiue decree of the Trent Councell , It is decreed , that the intellectuall power is the subiect or seat of saith . And this ●●to . de Nat. & gr● . lib. 2 cap. 7. Designatur , subiect●m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 intellect●ua parentiam . suits well with Romes faith , being historicall , and so , proper to the vnderstanding faculty . Notwithstanding , when they consider of the danger of placing faith in the vnderstanding , least it should follow , that therefore faith ought not to be an implicit , and ignorant , blind faith ; but a cleare and vnderstanding faith : they fly to the will rather , placing faith in that , not for any good will , but to suppresse the knowledge of faith , which Romes Owle-eyed religion cannot brooke . And therefore Bellarmine would . haue faith , to be defined rather from ignorance , then from knowledge : and so shuts it out of the vnderstanding , and shuffels it into some blinde corner of the will . But see the mischiefe of it : while they would auoid the gulfe , they fall . vpon the rocke . For if they place faith in the will , they must of necessity allow it one speciall property of sauing faith , namely , assiance , and considence in Gods promises in Christ , a thing most hatefull to the Church of Rome : therefore in conclusion , of two euills chusing the lesse , that they may rather exclude confidence from faith , then science ( sith they can noe otherwise chuse ) they rather pitch vpon the vnderstanding , then the will ▪ wherein to place their faith . So that by their good wills , they could be content , for the auoiding of the inconueniences of an illuminate and confident faith , to croud it into some corner of the inferiour part of the soule . But for sure worke , they haue taken a safer course , by excluding and banishing not onely from the soule or any faculty of it , but out of the verge , and lists of their Romane Catholicke Church , and that with a direfull Anathema , the true sauing and iustifying faith .

But whereas you say , few Diuines place faith in the whole soule , and in euery power of it : they are neither few , nor those of small authoritie . The prouinciall Councell Enchirid. C●ucil . Colon. prouine . de Sacra●ent● paenit pa. 87. ●ri●●ted at Paris , 1554. of Colen , ( which was a little before the Councell of Trent , although charged by Andreas Vega to speake too broad , and too Protestant-like in the point of faith and iustification by imputation ) saith , that true iustifying faith , is seated not onely in the vnderstanding , but also in the will The learned and ingenious Cardinall Contarenus , about the same time , writing of iustification , saith , that the first act or motion of Card. Contar de Iustificat Mo●●●●●dei incipit a voluntate , &c. faith begins at the will , which obeying God and faith , causeth the vnderstanding to assent to the things deliuered of God , without doubting , and so , to trust in Gods promises , and of them to conceiue a firme affiance . which pertaines to the will , and that this faith , as it were in a circle , begins at the will , and ends in the will . So that he confineth not faith to the vnderstanding onely , or to any one faculty of the soule , though hee place it principally in the will , in regard of those natiue and inseporable qualities of true sauing saith , namely confidence , and affiance in Gods promises . So that I wonder how this Doctrine of that good Cardinall hath escaped the flames of their Purgatory Index . But his owne life paid for it , when he with his fellow Cardinall Fregosus , being suspected Sleidan . Com●●tar . lib. 14. too much to fauour the Doctrine of Luther , were both quickly taken out of the way , non sine veneni suspicione , not without suspicion of poyson .

But those Diuines that liued in more ancient ages , contented themselues with the most simple , but most e●phaticall tearmes of the Scripture , not troubling their heads with quirks and questions of this nature , whether faith were in the vnderstanding , or in the will &c , but with the Scripture they include altogether in the heart , the seate and confluence of all the powers of the soule . * * Bern de Ordine v●t● . Primum sinc●ra radix sancae fides &c. Bernard saith , that first , the s●●ncere roote of holy faith is planted in the ground of mans heart , and when faith is fully growne vp , it becomes as a great tree , hauing in it sundry sorts of apples , wherewith the soule being full of God , is refreshed . St. August . takes no more care , but to place faith in the soule . Vnder & whence comes death in the soule ? because faith is not there ; 〈◊〉 ▪ in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 45 ▪ & de 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 vire . cap. 37. whence in the body ? because the soule is not there ; therefore the soule of the soule is faith . Againe , Fides quae credit in Deum , vita anima existit , & per hanc iustus viuit : Faith which beleeueth in God is the life of the soule ; and by it the iust man liueth . And speaking of the vnderstanding , hee saith , Intellectus merces est sides &c. The vnderstanding is the reward of faith ; Aug. in Ioh. 〈◊〉 . 29. doe not then seeke to vnderstand , that thou maist beleeue : but beleeue , that thou maist vnderstand . And againe , Intellectui fides viam aperit , infidelitas claudit : faith opens the way to the Sement . Aug. 128. vnderstanding , but infidelity shuts it . And speaking of the will , he saith , * * 〈◊〉 ▪ ex 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ●15 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 139. 〈◊〉 . Fides excitat ad exercitium voluntatem : Faith stirreth vp the will to excercise . And in a word , Fides sic est in anima , vt radix bona , quae pluuiam in fructum ducit : Faith is so in the 〈◊〉 , as a good roote , which peoduceth the raine into fruit . I might adde many others ; but this may suffice .

Babylonius .

But Sir , whereas you seeme to oppugne the Councell of Trent : doth it not also acknowledge faith to be the roote of all other graces ? Doe the Church of Rome right , I 〈◊〉 you .

Orthodoxus .

God forbid else . The prouerbe is , Giue the Diuel his due . Indeede the Trent Councell confesseth , 〈◊〉 . 6. cap 8. that faith is the beginning of mans saluation , the foundation and roote of all iustification . But vnder this painted Sepulcher , she buries the bones of true sauing faith , which she hath slaine , there to ly rotting ; as the Iewes did with Gods Prophets , whom their Fathers had slaine ; and vpon the foundation they erect the Monument and Trophe of their Pageantfaith . For vndertaking to gl●sse vpon the Apostles wordes , A man is iustified by faith , and gratis , freely : she saith , These wordes are to be vnderstood in that sense , which the perpetuall consent of the Catholicke Church hath holden , and expressed ; to wit , that we are said therefore to be iustified by faith , because it is the beginning of mans saluation , the foundation and root of all iustification . So that they attribute iustification to faith , not simply for it selfe , but relatiuely as it hath reference to the fruits , whereof they say faith is the roote , namely , their inherent righteousnesse . But the truth is , this restrained , yea constrained sense of theirs , is most absurd and senslesse , as hauing neither foundation , nor roote of reason to support and maintaine it . All is but wordes . They neither meane , nor will , nor can , maintaine it . For how is faith a beginning of grace , if grace be no necessary consequent of their faith ? For they confesse , they may haue faith , and want grace ; which is the Diuels case . Or how is faith the roote of grace and iustification , sith it is impossible for this roote to produce any fruite at all ? For how can a dead roote bring forth any liue-fruite ? And they confesse their faith to be a dead and dry roote of it selfe , vntill the sap of charity be powred into it , to actuate and quicken this , otherwise dead roote . So that by Babylons Doctrine , the fruite must giue life to the roote , not the roote to the fruite . And yet forsooth , faith must be the roote of iustification , the foundation of mans saluation . Surely the Prouerbe may here well be verified , Dignum patella operculum : like roote , like iustification , both dead : like foundation , like building , both sandy , yea meere aery and imaginary .

Babylonius .

But is not faith dead , and vnformed , vntill it be inliued , and formed by charity ? Doth not St. Iames say , that as the body without the spirit is dead , so faith without workes , is dead also ? Therefore the good workes of charity giue life vnto faith , as the soule to the body .

Orthodoxus .

Doth charity giue life to faith ? How is then faith the roote ? your owne reason may teach you the contrary , as wee haue showed . But to that place of Saint Iames : it is too commonly abused . For marke , first , hee saith not , As the body without the soule is dead ; but , as the body without the spirit , is dead . The spirit is the breath , by which the body is knowne to liue . So that the body receiueth life from the soule , but sheweth it by the spirit , which it breatheth . The spirit then is an effect and signe , not a cause of the life of the body . So charity , and the workes therof , are a fruite and effect breathing from sauing faith , testifying that it is a liuing faith , not causing it so to be ; for that were to turne the tree vpside downe , as if the roote , which is faith , should receiue life , sap , and groweth from the branches . And it is plaine , by the whole analogy and tenure of the chapter , that the Apostle speakes of good workes , as they are demonstratiue signes and fruits of a liuing faith , not as causes of it . Againe , he putteth a distinct difference betweene the true sauing faith , which alwaies shewes it selfe to liue , by the fruits of it ; for it is that faith , euer working by loue : and betweene a false counterfeit faith , such as is dead , and knowne to bee so , by the not breathing out of good workes .

So that the true sauing iustifying faith , is that , which worketh by loue . So the Apostle saith . But how by loue ? as by the efficient mouing cause of the working of it , or rather as the instrumentall cause , moued by the hand of faith ? Loue is faiths instrument , whereby it worketh . Yea it is an inseparable quality of sauing faith , whereby faith workes : as the heat is the inseperable quality of the fire , whereby the fire worketh . This is the Doctrine also of the ancient Fathers . They so make faith the roote , as that all other graces are radically in faith , and spring from it . They make all other holy graces to be inherent in sauing faith , as the natiue qualities of it , essentiall and inseparable , not as accidents which are seperable . Saint Augustine saith , What is it to beleeue in him ? By beleeuing to loue him , by beleeuing to affect him , by beleeuing Aug. de verbis 〈◊〉 . ser. 33. ●●chirid . cap. 8. to goe vnto him , and to be incorporated into his members . And againe , Paulus fidem &c. Paul approueth and commendeth that faith , which worketh by loue , which cannot be without hope ; therefore neither is loue without hope , nor hope without loue , nor both without faith . And which we cited before , Faith is so on the soule , as a good roote , which bringeth forth the fruite . S. Chrysostome saith , Faith is the foundation of the most holy religion , Chrysost. d● 〈◊〉 Abraham . the bond of charity , the supply and succour of loue ; it confirmes sanctity , it strengtheneth chastity , it gouernes all sexes , it promotes all degrees , it obserueth all offices ; faith keepeth the Commaundements , practiseth the precepts , accomplisheth the promises . And much more to this purpose , according to his fluent golden elegancy . Saint Ambrose , There are in faith Ambros. in Psal 118. ser. 22. great prerogatiues ; what be they ? piety , iustice , sobriety , charity , discipline , or good gouernment . And to conclude with St. August . In ipsa fide sunt omnia opera , quae diligit Deus : in faith Aug. in Psal. 32. it selfe are all those workes , which God loueth .

Nor need this poynt seeme so strange . Morall Philosophy can teach vs , that there is such an inseparable combination of all moral vertues , as he , that hath one , hath all . And shall wee deny then this inseparable conjunction of Spirituall graces , whereof Faith is the Radicall and principall ? Though it is a marveile , that these Philosopers , Aristotle , and Tully , haue escaped the fiery purgatory-Index , sith not even Romes owne Gratian , for saying no more in Divinitie , then those in Morality , hath had the grace to escape their Singe or Spunge . For where he saith , Sed commodo , &c. De consecratione . dist. 4 gloss . sol●ts etiam . But how can I haue such a faith , ( to remoue mountaines ) and not charity ? Sith he that hath one vertue hath all . I could not haue it but miraculously . All these words must out , as may be seene in Collat. censurae in gloss . iuris canonici vum . 84. Such a hatred they haue to the living saving faith , as though a Princesse , they will not allow her any necessary attendance & concomitancy of other graces . Whereas Bernard saith , To beleeue in God , is to hope in him , and to loue him . And Bern. slores de side . De iustitia . lib. 1. Hieronymus Osorius , Faith containeth all religion , and piety ; for all vertues are by faith consorted , and combined together , and with it are connexed and intwined in a most holy knot . But Deleantur haec verba , let these words be cancelled , saith the Index expurgatorius . Also these words of his , Ergo cùm fides &c. Therefore seeing faith doth governe the whole soule , and drawe it to the studie and loue of Gods word , it followeth necessarily , that it is proved not only in beleeving , but also in obeying . And those words also of Osorius , must passe ●●id . their purgatory , Tune igitur verè fideles sumus , cùm Dei verbo audiontes sumus . Therefore then are wee truely faithfull , when wee are obedient to the word of God . I will conclude , with the golden saying of our Royall Paraphrase vpon the King Iames , in his Paraphrase on the Reuelation cha. 20. Reuelation : God by faith onely iustifieth man , which notwithstanding is done according to his workes , because they , as the fruits of faith , cannot be seperated from it , and be are witnesse of the same to men of the earth .

I might seeme to haue digressed all this while from the point of freewill , in speaking of faith , But partly you haue moued me , and the more willingly haue I followed you , it being very pertinent to set forth & discouer the Councell of Trents egregious hypocrisy in her Doctrine of grace and freewill . For vnto what is the will stirred , moued , assisted by grace ? Parturient montes ; we expect some wonderfull consequent . Thereby ( forsooth ) the will conceiueth faith by hearing the word , and prepareth and disposeth it selfe to iustification . And what faith is this , thus conceiued ? Nascetur ridiculus Mus: behold a ridiculous Mouse , in steede of a young Mountaine . For of their freewill is conceiued by hearing , not that iustifying , sauing , liuing faith , whereof the Apostle , Faith commeth by hearing , Rom. 10. 17 ; that faith whereof rightcousnesse is , ver. 5. that which beleeueth to righteousnesse , ver. 10 ; that , which beleeueth , In D. Ies●m , in the Lord Iesus , ver. 11 : but this conceiued faith of Rome is a bare , historicall , implicit , generall , dead faith , like that of the Deuils , no grace , but such , as euery wicked man may haue , as their * fideles fornicarii , &c. their faithfull fornicaters , adulterers &c. And that grace of God , their first grace , 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . 6 cap. 15. whereby they say the will is first moued to conceiue ( a dead ) faith , is with them , but an ordinary , common grace , in deede no grace : and by their owne confession no sauing , sanctifying , iustifying grace at all . Yea and though they stile it a preparatory grace , yet it neuer bringeth a man to true iustification , sith they disclame that liuing sauing faith , the onely faith , whereby , instrumentally we are iustified . The summary conclusion then is : that seeing the Trent Councell hath in her Doctrine of freewill so slily vndermined and ouerturned the fundamentall doctrine of saluation , consisting in the iustifying , sauing , liuing faith , powerfully wrought by the sanctifying grace of Gods Spirit in the heart , euen in the whole man , the soule , with all the faculties , from which faith , as from a liuing and fructifying roote , doe spring all other holy graces : therefore , for any man to goe about , to excuse the Councell of Trent in the point , wherein for the maine , she is altogether to be condemned , yea executed with Anathema Maran-atha : I see not , how such a one can be excused , from being a reconciled confederate in all that damnable Doctrine of Trent , about freewill . Is this the way to make vs beleeue the Apppealers profound protestations , that he is a Protestant of the Church of England , while he so religiously pleadeth for the Councell of Trents mystery of iniquity ? and that flatly against the * * See homily of saluation , and of true , iustifying , and sauing saith . Doctrine of the Church of England . Doth he thus perswade vs , hee is no Papist ? Fy , Maister Mountagu , for shame , learne not thus of your Councell of Trent , to equiuocate with your brethren , yea with your Mother Church of England . You hold with the Step-mother of Rome in her most damnable Doctrines , whereby she vtterly euacuates Christ Iesus , and the whole mystery of our saluation : and yet you are no Papist . Why ? Because ( forsooth ) you doe not hold those Doctrines to be Popery , but catholicke , with those of the Church of England . If you can bring no better arguments to proue you a good Protestant : these you haue brought will sufficiently conclude you to be a reconciling reconciled English Romane-catholicke .

Babylonius .

Sir , to trouble you no longer for this time , and for a conclusion of the first part of this Appeale , passe wee to the last Chapter , touching the Synod of Dort . It is but short ; wherein the Authour saith ; The Synod of Dort , is not our rule . And , Priuate opinions , no rule . Doth he not herein say truely ?

Orthodoxus .

Why then should his owne priuate peruerse opinions be reputed as the rule of the Church of England ? For it is true no doubt , that no Synod , or Councell , much lesse any priuate mans opinion , is the rule of our faith . Yet all Synods and Councels , so farre forth as their Decrees are grounded vpon the Scriptures , we are to imbrace and reuerence . But of all other passages in the Appealers Appeale , I muse at none more , then this his eleuating and slighting the Synod of Dort . And what spirit ( trow we ) is that man of , or possessed with , that stands so much for the Councell of Trent , and so little esteemes the Councell of Dort ? I wot well the Synod of Dort is an aduersary to his Arminian Pontifician opinions : and therefore no maruaile , if he beare it no great good will . But considering next vnder God , the prime and principall mouer of that Synod , his late Excellent Maiestie of eternall memory : yea how He promoued it , what Princely and prouident care , what liberall cost He was at , to adorne the Synod with some of the choicest , and solidest Diuines , that He had in His Kingdome : what a zealous desire Hee had by that meanes to quench those fiery flames of dissention , blowne by the factious spirits of In●endiaries , which threatned the ruine of those neighbour reformed Churches , the tayles of which smoking firebrands are not altogether quenched , but begin to reuiue , hauing for want of vent till now lyen smoathering euen in our Church of England , the smoake whereof hath blinded a great many , and now the flames threaten to burne moe : what a religious care He tooke to establish true religion , and to abolish that Arminian roote of bitternesse , springing vp , and spreading abroad , wherewith many were defiled : which one act of His Maiestie , shall no lesse eternize His name , then the most famous and vnparalleld actions Hee atchieued in all His Princely gouernment : this ( I say ) strikes me with an exceeding wonderment , that the Appealer would euer suffer himselfe so farre to be transported with the spirit of contradiction , as to fall foule vpon such a learned Synod , a Synod of Protestants , a Synod of many reformed Churches , and ( which , if nought else , might haue most moued him ) a Synod , assembled , managed , concluded , by the most auspicious Peace-making spirit , zeale , wel-wishes , and prayers , of His late Maiestie : yea , and ( to fill vp the measure of his all-daring hardinesse ) to presume to thrust this booke in the name of An Appeale , vnder the protection of our most Excellent patrizing Caesar ; here I am at a stand . What ? so to disrepute the Synod of Dort ? O spare it ! either speake not at all of it , or reuerently , and honorably , at least for the thrice noble , religious , zealous louer of the truth , King IAMES , He that so honoured that Synod , & imbraced those orthodox conclusions of it , as that He aduanced those to Ecclesiasticall honours , whom Hee had selected and sent , to represent the Church of England . Which also , by the way , addes to my wonderment , that the Appealer should , and that vnder the name of the Church of England , dare to oppose the Councell of Dort , if he had considered , that his late Excellent Maiestie did vnderstand no other , but that all the conclusions of that Councell , did consent with the Doctrines of the Church of England ; as also the representiue Church of England , as they were of the number of the primest and actiuest Agents in that Synod : so with the rest , they were the first still in order , who by their subscriptions sealed vp their vnanimous assent to all the Conclusions . Or can the Appealer taxe the incomparable judgement of that famous King of ignorance , either in the choise of that representatiue Church of England , or in the state of the Doctrines of it ? Farre be it . His Maiestie knew as well the true state of the Doctrine of the Church of England , as the most and greatest Scholars in England ; that I may not disparadge his Excellency so much as to say , He knew it better , then the Appealer himselfe . And if I might pin my faith vpon any mans sleeue , or referre the judgment of the Doctrine of the Church of England , to my one man : I would haue chosen His Maiestie as the ●●pire , & oracle of it , before any man liuing . And yet He , that professed , protested , writ , wrought , studied , liued , and dyed in the maintenance of that one truth , wherein , by His auspicious vnanimity , the Church of England , and the Councell of Dort , haue confented , according to the rule of faith , Gods word : shall He , He ( I say ) His sacred ashes be raysed vp againe , and by an Appeale be vrged to recaut His former profession , to reuerse His iudgment , & to cancell , or to b●r●● His bookes , which no antiquity , no iniury of time , no elementary flames , shall euer be able to abolish ? I might better appeale to those , who were so happy , as dayly to heare the wisdome of that our Salomon , euen at His ordinary repast . They can testifie , what zealous protestations He made for the truth , and with what vehement derestation He had of the contrary . As for instance : how did He abominate those that writ de apostasia Sanctorum ? Which very title of Bertius His Maiestie often in His pious zeale professed His indignation against , as a blasphemous doctrine . And as in His vsuall and ordinary discourse at table , and at other times , He shewed His Princely diuine spirit , in refuting and refelling all the vanities of Popery , and Pelagian Arminianismo : so at His death He protested His owne constancy , and finall perseuerance in that truth , which He had formerly professed .

All this ( I say ) duely waighed , I am still in a muse , what should imbolden , infatuate rather the Appealer , to insert any such passage , as the depressing and deprizing the Synod of Dort , in his Appeale . Yet doing so , he is not more guilty of ingratitude , towards our late Caesar , as also of ignorance , that I may not say starke folly , in addressing this his Appeale to our present Caesar. Doth not the Appealer remember , that Hee is the Son , the onely Son , of such a Father ? Yea a Son of that naturall and pious affection to His Father , as ( all can witnesse with me ) Hee might well be a Princely myrrour of filiall piety to many Sonnes , whose naturall affection commonly descends , rather then ascends . Nor only the Sonne , the onely Sonne , the most naturally , and graciously pious Sonne , but the very viue and expresse image of such a Father ; inheriting not onely His Fathers Kingdomes & Crownes , but ( which is the Crowne of all , and more precious then all His Kingdomes ) His vertues , and graces , His wisdome , His iudgment , and , aboue all , His religion , yea His loue , care , and zeale , in maintaining the same . This religion Hee first suckt in with His Nurses milke , therein also bred & brought vp vnder a religious , & sound-hearted Tutor , who ( besides other learned and godly gouernours ) ceassed not , from His very infancy , to instill into Him the deaw of all heauenly knowledge , and that especially , by acquainting Him with the Scriptures , which according to His daily taske Hee missed not to reade , by three or foure chapters a day , being able also , euen when He was very young , not aboue seuen yeares old , to giue a present account without booke , of the principall things Hee had read . I speake not by guesse ; I was so happy , as to bee often an eye and eare-witnesse of it . But aboue all those instructions Hee receiued from time to time from His Royall Father , lighting vpon a subiect of such peerelesse indowments both of Nature and Grace , haue made Him a compleate Prince in all excellent knowledge , and worthy to be the onely Sonne and Heire of such a Father . So that when He was now growne to riper yeares , He was able euen at table to discourse , and discusse points of controuersie betweene vs and the Papists , to the great ioy of all His seruants about Him . And yet after all this ( see the lucke of it ) must the Appealer haue the hap to foist in his fardell of fancies , yea falsities , and that by way of Appeale to His Excellent Maiestie . And vpon what ground ? I hope , if not presuming that His Maiestie now , vpon His first happy entry into His Kingdomes , is so taken vp with many waighty affaires , that Hee will not haue the leasure to peruse his Appeale , which is the Appealers happinesse ; yea and Maiesties too , sauing that His judgment is so settled vpon the truth , after so long and strong a seasoning , that vneath it were for Master Mountagu to caule the li●uor of his musty caske to relish well in such an vncorrupt Palate .

And for this Chapter , touching the Synod of Dort , one part of his Appeale : wherefore doth hee in this , and other passages about this Synod , appeale ? Forsooth he appeales to His present Maiestie King CHARLES , to indge and determine , whither the Councell of Dort bee now to bee holden in that esteeme , as it was by His late noble Father King IAMES ; whither those conclusions of it , bee not now to be reiected , which His royall Father so much auowed and approued ; whither the Decrees thereof bee not now to be holden as opposite Doctrines to those of the Church of England , which the most judicious King IAMES found to be so correspondent , and consonant , one to the other ; or , whither the Doctrine of the Church of England be not now quite changed , from that it was , in the time of King IAMES his peaceable gouernment ; whither the learned representatine Church of England ( selected by the most judicious , and learned King for that purpose ) which in that Councell swarued not from the Tenents and grounds of their Mother Church , be rather to be admitted as interpreters of our Church Doctrines , then singular Maister Mountagu ; whither the Decrees of that Synod , being grounded vpon expresse texts of Scripture , and concluded by so many learned and graue Diuines , be to be accounted priuate opinions , rather then Maister Mountagues owne fancies , conceiued of some misunderstood Doctrines of the Church of England , and so , which of these should be admitted of vs rather for no rule . In a word , hee appeales ( I wisse ) whither the judgment of King IAMES , approuing the Doctrine of the Synod of Dort , as agreeable to the Doctrine of the Church of England , and both , to the holy Scriptures : or his owne iudgment , in his disallowing and reiecting the Synod , as not agreeable to his owne fancies ( for his words are , I haue no part , nor portion in them ; either in them , that maintaine the Decrees ; or , in the Decrees themselues ) whither ( I say ) King IAMES His iudgment , or his owne , be rather to be intertained and approued of His sacred Maiestie His Son , whom God for euer preserue in all integrity of judgment , and loue of the Truth .

Asotus .

Gentlemen , I thanke you both , for your learned discourse , though much of it aboue my capacity . It is now dinner time . If it please you to take the paines to meete here againe after dinner , about two of the clock , I shall bee glad to bee informed further of some points in the Second part of the Appeale .

Babylonius .

You haue made a good motion , friend Asotus . I shall be ready at the time appointed ( if it please Maister Orthodoxus ) to receiue further satisfaction with you .

Orthodoxus .

And seeing you haue giuen so good proofe of your patience thus farre , I am not vnwilling to yeeld to your motion and desire , so farre as God shall in able me . So fare ye well .

Asotus .

Babylonius . And you , good Maister Orthodoxus .

Gentle Reader , I pray thee correct these faults with thy pen .

Page 7 , Line 13 , reade Philistian . p. 13 , l. 19 , r. as his owne . 〈◊〉 . 26 , his forced . l. 36 , r. reuerence . p. 21 , l. 36 , 1. the Rocke . p. 31 , l. 36 , r. recured . p. 38 , l. 7 , r. presumption . l. 12. r. audiun● . p. 40 , in marg●nt , r●guauiter . p. 41 , l. 2 , 1. or no. p. 45 , l. 20 , r. Iuterimsists . p. 48 , l. 2 , for Dued , r. Quum . l. 36 , r. done with the. p. 62 , l. 30. r. great . p 69 , l. 19 , r. motiue .

FINIS .
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