MR.
PILKINTON
HIS
PARALLELA
DISPARALLED
.
AND
The
Catholicke
Roman
faith
maintained
against
Protestantisme
.
By
ANT.
CHAMPNEY
Sorbonist
,
and
author
of
the
Manuall
of
Controuersies
,
impugned
by
the
said
Mr.
Pilkinton
.
WEE
WISH
THAT
THOSE
WOVLD
departe
from
their
owne
frowardnes
,
who
against
Christ
,
carry
the
ensigne
of
Christ
,
and
against
the
Gospell
,
bragge
of
the
Gospell
which
they
vnderstande
not
.
Aug.
ep.
61.
ad
Dulcit
.
Cited
by
Mr.
Pilkinton
against
himselfe
.
AT
S.
OMERS
,
For
IOHN
HEIGHAM
.
With
permission
,
Anno
1620.
Mr.
PILKINTON
HIS
PARALLELA
DISPARALLED
.
AND
THE
CATHOLICKE
ROMAN
faith
maintained
against
Protestantisme
.
By
ANT.
CHAMPNEY
Sorbonist
and
author
of
the
Manuall
of
Controuersies
impugned
by
the
said
Mr.
Pilkinton
.
Wee
wish
that
those
would
departe
from
their
owne
frowardnes
,
who
against
Christ
,
carry
the
ensigne
of
Christ
,
and
against
the
Gospel
,
bragge
of
the
Gospel
which
they
vnderstande
not
.
Aug.
ep.
61.
ad
Dulcit
.
Cited
by
Mr.
Pilkinton
against
himselfe
.
To
Mr.
George
Abbat
,
called
by
some
,
Archbishoppe
of
Canturbury
.
IT
is
now
three
whole
yeeres
I
appealed
to
your
iudgment
in
a
matter
of
difference
and
controuersie
betwixte
a
minister
of
your
owne
makinge
,
or
allowance
att
least
,
Mr.
Francis
Mason
,
and
my selfe
;
concerninge
the
vocation
and
consecration
aswell
of
your
owne
person
,
as
of
all
the
rest
of
the
protestant
Bishops
and
ministers
in
England
.
And
thoughe
hitherto
I
haue
receiued
no
notice
of
anie
Sentences
geuen
by
you
in
this
Controuersie
(
because
for
seeinge
as
I
suppose
,
that
you
cannot
passe
your
Sentence
thereupon
,
without
preiudice
either
of
your
owne
interest
,
or
reputation
,
you
willinglie
dissemble
the
matter
)
yett
am
I
moued
to
demaunde
your
iudgment
in
another
difference
,
betwixt
another
minister
of
yours
,
Mr.
Richarde
Pilkinton
,
and
my selfe
.
For
where
as
I
sett
forth
fiue
yeeres
a
goe
a
briefe
Manuall
of
Controuersies
,
contayninge
onlie
seauen
sheetes
of
Paper
,
proouinge
all
the
cheefest
heades
of
controuersie
by
Scriptures
only
;
he
,
this
last
yeare
,
to
crosse
the
same
,
hath
printed
a
fowle
great
booke
of
fifty
sheetes
,
callinge
it
,
Parallela
.
Which
booke
he
dedicateth
to
you
.
In
whose
Epistle
Dedicatorie
,
thoughe
there
be
as
manie
falsities
and
impertinencies
,
as
there
are
in
so
manies
lines
of
the
rest
of
his
booke
;
yet
shall
they
passe
without
other
touch
in
particular
,
then
this
generall
reprehension
(
as
either
refutinge
themselues
,
or
not
worthy
refutinge
of
purpose
)
only
I
cannot
omitte
these
brauinge
wordes
of
his
which
followe
.
This
popish
agent
(
he
meaneth
the
author
of
the
Manual
)
I
haue
vndertaken
,
and
stripped
him
of
his
armour
,
which
he
hath
vsurped
,
shewinge
his
proofes
to
be
as
weake
,
as
his
positions
are
wicked
,
that
his
blinde
religion
may
appeare
vnto
all
to
be
nothinge
but
an
heape
of
vntruthes
without
patronage
of
holy
Scriptures
.
Which
encounter
I
nowe
offer
vnto
the
viewe
of
the
world
,
vnder
the
shield
of
your
graces
protection
,
who
first
encouraged
mee
to
this
battell
,
and
canne
best
of
all
men
iudge
(
as
the
most
experienced
generall
in
this
sacred
warfare
)
on
which
side
the
truth
propendeth
.
In
which
wordes
he
doth
not
onlie
vainlie
bragge
of
the
victorie
alreadie
achieued
,
but
also
acknowledgeth
to
haue
receiued
this
taske
from
you
,
and
perferringe
your
iudgment
of
his
trauells
before
all
other
mens
,
offereth
his
booke
vnto
you
,
nothinge
doubtinge
either
of
your
approbation
or
protection
.
Therefore
haue
I
made
free
choice
of
you
for
vmpiere
betwixt
him
and
me
,
to
iudge
whether
he
hath
indeede
stryped
me
of
myne
Armour
,
as
he
braggeth
,
&
whether
his
proofes
or
myne
be
stronger
,
and
more
pertinent
to
the
purpose
for
which
they
are
produced
.
I
say
of
the
proofes
onlie
,
for
of
the
positions
themselues
,
I
houlde
you
not
a
fitt
or
competent
iudge
.
And
were
it
not
,
that
I
am
verie
confident
in
the
clearenes
of
my
cause
,
and
am
also
persuaded
that
you
will
not
preiudice
your
reputation
with
the
world
so
farre
,
as
to
giue
your
iudgment
against
a
manifest
truth
,
I
would
not
be
so
vnaduised
as
to
put
my
cause
into
so
vnequall
and
partiall
a
iudge
his
handes
,
as
all
men
knowe
you
to
be
,
betweene
me
and
myne
aduersarie
.
Neuertheles
the
premisses
beinge
considered
I
will
not
refuse
your
iudgement
in
this
cause
:
Only
I
will
request
of
you
to
peruse
that
which
hath
been
sayd
on
either
parte
,
before
you
geue
your
iudgment
of
the
cause
it selfe
;
And
this
I
thinke
I
may
iustlie
demaunde
of
you
,
without
incurringe
anie
speciall
obligation
of
particular
grace
or
fauour
:
which
beinge
performed
,
I
freelie
permitt
you
to
passe
your
opinion
of
the
difference
,
as
you
shall
thinke
most
conformable
to
equitie
,
and
important
for
your
owne
reputation
.
Whereof
,
I
maruell
not
a
litle
,
you
had
so
smal
reguarde
,
as
to
lett
goe
foorth
into
the
viewe
of
the
worlde
,
with
so
much
testimonie
of
your
allowance
and
approbation
,
such
a
peece
of
stuffe
as
Mr.
Pilkinton
hath
sett
to
sale
in
this
booke
.
Which
(
to
speake
without
preiudice
of
others
that
may
seeme
to
contend
with
him
for
the
price
of
ignorance
,
impertinencie
and
peruersitie
)
I
thinke
is
one
of
the
seeliest
and
shallowest
thinges
that
hath
seen
sunne
in
this
age
▪
And
therefore
a
iudicious
friende
(
hauinge
looked
a
litle
into
it
)
tould
me
I
was
not
to
expect
anie
honour
by
vndertakinge
such
an
aduersarie
.
Wherefore
I
aduise
you
for
your
owne
credit
sake
,
to
be
more
warie
hereafter
,
then
to
lett
such
birdes
flye
abroade
with
your
name
in
their
forehead
.
●●r
the
blemishe
and
staine
which
they
bringe
with
them
,
will
sticke
as
faste
in
your
face
,
as
●●●th
in
that
of
the
author
,
yea
by
so
much
the
faster
,
by
howe
much
more
eminent
your
name
and
authoritie
is
,
or
ought
to
be
aboue
his
.
And
so
wishinge
you
from
my
verie
hearte
more
loue
and
affection
to
the
Catholike
truth
and
veritie
,
then
hitherto
you
haue
sh●wed
,
without
which
your
parte
will
infalliblie
be
with
the
Father
of
all
falshoode
:
For
,
qui
non
credit
iam
iudicatus
est
,
he
Doway
this
last
of
Iune
1619.
Your
true
friende
,
thoughe
enemie
to
your
errours
,
A.
CHAMPNEY
.
TO
THE
IVDICIOVS
READER
.
IN
the
yeare
1614.
(
good
reader
)
I
put
forth
in
print
at
the
request
of
a
friend
,
a
briefe
Enchiridion
or
Manuall
of
controuersies
,
proouinge
the
Catholike
faith
in
38.
seuerall
heades
of
controuersie
by
the
text
of
holy
Scripture
it selfe
;
which
contayninge
but
onlie
seauen
sheetes
of
paper
,
Mr.
Richarde
Pilkinton
,
who
stileth
himselfe
doctor
of
Diuinitie
,
after
fower
whole
yeeres
,
pretendeth
to
answre
,
and
for
that
purpose
hath
sett
forth
a
booke
of
fiftie
sheetes
thinkinge
to
couer
by
multitude
of
wordes
,
that
which
with
force
of
argument
he
could
not
impeache
nor
make
obscure
.
His
booke
came
but
to
my
handes
the
last
of
Februarie
this
present
yeere
,
when
I
was
both
indisposed
in
my
health
,
&
had
newlie
receiued
a
command
from
those
who
could
commaunde
me
,
to
transporte
myselfe
from
Paris
,
where
then
I
liued
,
to
Douay
.
So
that
vntill
the
fourteenth
of
May
,
I
could
not
begin
to
thinke
seriously
of
any
reply
to
him
,
thoughe
I
had
in
the
meane
while
runne
ouer
some
parte
of
his
booke
,
and
alsoe
noted
somethinge
therein
to
that
purpose
.
Where
Mr.
Pilkinton
may
peraduenture
say
as
he
saith
of
the
Manuall
,
that
it
well
appeareth
to
haue
●ee●
do●●e
in
haste
,
and
yett
not
in
such
shorte
tyme
but
another
might
well
haue
made
diuers
such
replies
in
the
same
space
;
as
Apelles
answered
to
one
,
who
sheweinge
him
a
picture
,
and
sayinge
he
had
made
it
in
one
day
:
But
be
ytt
that
Mr.
Pilkintons
witt
and
dexteritie
,
coulde
haue
performed
much
more
in
the
same
tyme
,
yett
I
confesse
that
mine
coulde
doe
noe
better
;
the
other
imployments
wherein
the
greatest
parte
of
my
tyme
is
taken
vpp
,
lyinge
vppon
me
.
Neither
doth
Mr.
Pilkinton
neede
much
to
bragge
of
his
dexteritie
and
expedition
in
this
kinde
;
seeinge
he
hath
bestowed
fower
whole
yeeres
or
verie
neere
in
answereinge
only
seauen
sheetes
of
paper
,
and
that
also
so
shallowly
and
seelily
,
that
there
is
much
lesse
difficultie
to
refute
his
aunswere
,
then
to
Coppie
out
or
transcribe
his
wordes
.
I
haue
replyed
to
all
he
saith
as
it
lyeth
in
his
booke
so
farr
as
I
goe
with
him
,
relatinge
his
owne
wordes
,
least
he
shoulde
complayne
of
ill
dealinge
,
as
if
somethinge
of
moment
were
lefte
vntouched
;
And
both
he
and
the
reader
may
likewise
vnderstande
,
that
I
might
with
as
much
facilitie
haue
refuted
the
rest
of
his
booke
,
had
it
been
either
necessarie
or
proffitable
to
haue
bestowed
the
labour
in
transcribinge
it
,
and
cost
in
printinge
it
.
I
would
wishe
thee
good
reader
to
take
speciall
notice
of
the
preface
,
which
may
serue
thee
as
a
key
not
only
to
this
small
treatise
,
but
also
to
other
workes
of
greater
moment
,
and
generally
to
all
controuersies
.
In
the
answereinge
whereof
as
Mr.
Pilkinton
hath
been
more
laborious
,
so
hath
he
also
shewed
himselfe
more
impertinent
and
peruerse
.
Reade
the
whole
with
attention
if
thy
leisure
will
permitte
thee
,
and
compare
diligentlie
his
proofes
and
myne
together
,
&
after
doe
not
spare
to
giue
thy
Censure
thereon
as
thou
shalt
thinke
good
in
gods
name
.
And
if
thou
receiuest
anie
proffit
by
my
small
labour
,
I
shall
thinke
it
well
bestowed
,
and
as
fullie
recompensed
as
I
expect
or
desire
in
this
worlde
.
God
euer
keepe
thee
and
me
also
.
This
first
of
Iuly
.
1619.
APPROBATIO
.
Ego
infrascriptus
S.
Th.
Doctor
&
Collegij
Anglorum
Duaceni
Praeses
,
legi
libellum
inscriptum
Mr.
Pilkinton
his
Pararelle
Disparelled
,
Autore
Magistro
Antonio
Champneyo
S.
Th.
Doctore
Sorbonico
:
nihilque
in
eo
reperi
aduersum
fidem
Catholicam
vel
bonos
mores
,
sed
eandem
fidem
Catholicam
in
nonnullis
propugnatam
,
&
aduersarij
ineptias
&
fraudes
detectas
.
Quocirca
iudico
eundem
vtiliter
praelo
committi
posse
.
Datum
Duaci
die
decima
Decembris
,
Anno
salutis
1619.
Matthaeus
Kellisonus
.
Mr.
PILKINTONS
PARALLEL
DISPARALLELD
.
Mr.
Pilkinton
after
his
owne
Epistle
Dedicatorie
to
his
Gratious
Patron
of
Canterburie
,
and
his
shapeles
aunswere
to
my
shorte
Epistle
to
the
reader
(
for
soe
exact
he
would
seeme
to
be
that
he
letteth
nothinge
passe
without
an
answere
)
he
beginneth
his
encounter
as
followeth
.
PILKINTON
.
A
briefe
Synopsis
of
popishe
positions
auouched
by
the
Manualist
,
directlie
contradicted
by
the
Fathers
.
CHAMPNEY
.
I
may
err
and
fayle
,
as
all
other
men
may
;
but
obstinate
in
errour
by
gods
grace
I
shall
neuer
be
.
Neither
will
I
euer
be
but
a
scholer
and
childe
of
the
orthodox
Fathers
.
If
therefore
by
ouersight
,
ignorance
or
errour
which
are
defects
incident
to
all
men
,
I
haue
vttered
anie
thinge
contrarie
to
theire
doctrine
,
I
doe
here
willinglie
and
wittinglie
recall
and
retract
it
.
But
lett
vs
heare
the
directe
contradictions
you
speake
of
.
PILK
.
All
articles
of
faith
are
not
contayned
so
much
as
indirectlie
and
implicitlie
in
the
holy
Scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
You
were
verie
ill
aduised
to
vse
such
euident
corrupt
dealinge
in
the
verie
first
line
of
your
booke
.
This
position
,
sett
downe
by
you
,
is
no
more
myne
,
then
your
Parallel
,
is
my
Manuall
.
But
you
prooue
your selfe
a
fitt
scholler
of
your
old
Maisters
.
My
position
is
this
.
All
such
articles
as
are
of
faith
,
are
not
contayned
so
much
as
indirectlie
or
implici●lie
in
holie
scriptures
,
but
onlie
so
far
as
the
scriptures
contayne
and
testifie
the
aucthoritie
of
the
Churche
and
Tradition
.
To
this
position
lett
vs
nowe
see
your
Antithesis
of
the
Fathers
.
PILK
.
In
those
thinges
that
are
plainlie
set
downe
in
the
holy
scripture
,
all
poinctes
are
founde
that
concerne
either
beliefe
or
life
.
CHAMP
.
If
your
wittes
had
been
at
home
when
you
wrote
All
articles
of
faith
are
contayned
in
scriptures
so
far
as
they
testifie
the
Authoritie
of
the
Churche
,
and
Traditions
.
Which
you
will
not
,
as
I
suppose
,
deny
to
be
the
verie
same
in
sence
with
the
position
sett
downe
in
the
Ma●uall
;
I
would
learne
of
you
wherein
you
putt
the
antithesis
betwixt
this
position
,
and
that
of
S.
August
.
But
lett
S.
August
.
no
example
of
this
thinge
(
speaking
of
the
validitie
of
Baptisme
,
ministred
by
heretickes
)
be
brought
out
of
holie
scriptures
,
yett
doe
we
followe
the
truth
of
the
same
scriptures
in
this
point
,
whilst
we
doe
that
which
pleaseth
the
whole
Churche
,
which
the
authoritie
of
the
scripture
doth
commend
.
Wherby
you
see
S.
August
.
to
teache
some
articles
of
faith
not
otherwise
to
be
contayned
in
holy
scriptures
,
but
so
far
onlie
as
they
commend
vnto
vs
the
authoritie
of
the
Churche
,
which
is
that
my
position
saith
;
and
therefore
your
antithesis
is
in
your
owne
brayne
that
seemeth
to
be
at
oddes
with
all
true
doctrine
.
And
marueyle
truly
it
is
to
me
,
with
what
countenance
you
produce
S.
Aug.
doctrine
,
as
thoughe
you
attributed
to
him
some
authoritie
,
seinge
in
the
Ecclesiasticus
,
Sapientia
,
Tobie
,
●udith
,
and
the
Machabees
all
reiected
by
you
:
and
beginninge
the
chapter
where
you
would
take
your
antithesis
,
saith
thus
.
In
his
omnibus
libris
timentes
Deum
,
&
pietate
mansueti
quaerunt
voluntatem
Dei
.
In
all
these
bookes
,
those
that
feare
God
,
and
are
indued
with
true
pietie
seeke
the
will
of
God
.
If
nowe
you
make
anie
esteeme
of
S.
August
.
iudgment
,
what
case
are
you
in
,
that
reiect
these
bookes
of
holy
scripture
as
apocriphall
,
whence
he
saith
all
pious
and
those
that
feare
God
,
do
seeke
his
will
:
but
this
onlie
by
the
way
.
PILK
.
The
holy
Apostles
deliuered
by
worde
of
mouth
moe
things
to
be
beleeued
and
obserued
by
this
churche
,
then
either
they
founde
written
or
wrote
themselues
.
We
knowe
not
the
disposition
of
our
Antithesis
Ireneus
lib.
3.
c.
1
▪
saluation
from
anie
other
then
from
them
by
whom
the
Ghospell
came
to
vs
,
which
first
they
preached
,
and
after
by
the
will
of
God
deliuered
vnto
vs
in
the
holy
scriptures
to
be
the
foundation
and
pillar
of
our
faith
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
had
taken
but
ordinarie
heede
what
you
wrote
,
you
woulde
not
haue
sayde
that
my
position
hath
anie
opposition
with
S.
Ireneus
;
who
sayth
not
that
the
Apostles
wrote
all
they
preached
,
as
he
should
haue
don
to
make
your
antithesis
good
,
but
onlie
that
they
wrote
the
same
gospell
which
they
preached
,
and
not
a
different
or
contrarie
doctrine
to
their
preachinge
,
as
some
prophane
heretickes
of
whom
he
maketh
there
mention
impudentlie
taught
,
which
sence
of
this
Father
your selfe
acknowledge
pag.
5.
But
if
you
will
needes
make
this
consequence
they
wrote
that
which
they
preached
,
ergo
,
they
wrote
all
that
they
preached
,
(
as
you
must
argue
if
you
will
make
anie
antithesis
betwixt
my
position
and
S.
Ireneus
his
doctrine
)
I
will
say
that
either
you
haue
forgotten
your
logicke
,
or
that
you
neuer
had
anie
.
For
to
make
or
inferre
an
vniuersall
proposition
,
of
an
indefinite
in
n●n
necessarijs
,
is
most
absurde
,
as
you
shall
see
by
these
examples
.
Homo
est
albus
vel
caluus
,
ergo
omnis
homo
est
a
●us
vel
caluus
▪
or
,
the
kinge
writeth
that
he
speaketh
and
thinketh
,
therefore
he
writeth
all
he
speaketh
or
thinketh
.
Moreouer
,
of
S.
Ireneus
his
iudgment
concerninge
traditions
,
you
might
haue
informed
your selfe
by
the
chapter
immediatelie
followinge
that
which
you
cite
,
where
he
hath
these
wordes
.
When
we
appeall
to
that
tradition
(
which
descendinge
from
the
Apostles
,
is
by
the
succession
of
priestes
in
the
Churche
preserued
)
they
,
to
wit
heretikes
,
reiect
Traditions
.
PILK
.
The
scriptures
are
darke
and
difficult
to
be
vnderstoode
,
and
all
articles
of
faith
are
not
clearelie
layde
downe
in
them
.
All
thinges
are
cleare
in
the
holy
scriptures
CHAMP
.
The
position
of
the
Manuall
which
you
ayme
at
as
this
.
All
places
of
holy
scripture
containinge
articles
of
faith
(
the
obstinate
misbeleefe
whereof
is
damnable
)
are
not
easie
to
be
vnderstoode
,
but
require
some
rule
to
be
interpreted
by
.
Nowe
if
you
will
maintaine
this
position
to
be
opposite
to
S.
Epiphanius
,
you
must
graunte
that
your
doctrine
is
opposite
to
him
,
which
I
euidentlie
shewe
in
this
manner
.
In
the
roll
of
positions
which
you
say
are
forgéd
by
me
against
you
,
and
are
sett
downe
by
you
in
the
next
page
of
your
booke
;
This
in
the
second
.
All
places
of
holie
scripture
conteininge
articles
of
faith
,
are
easie
to
be
vnderstoode
,
which
proposition
if
you
will
reiect
as
none
of
yours
,
as
you
doe
in
the
place
mentioned
;
then
must
necessarilie
the
contradictorie
proposition
which
is
the
same
with
mine
here
carped
at
by
you
,
and
wich
you
say
is
opposite
to
S.
Epiphanius
be
,
yours
,
and
then
doe
you
contradict
S.
Epiphanius
,
if
you
will
say
that
I
doe
.
Or
if
you
will
confesse
the
truth
,
and
acknowledge
this
latter
proposition
.
to
be
yours
,
as
doubtles
it
is
,
why
doe
you
then
charge
me
with
forgeinge
it
against
you
?
Accorde
your
owne
sayinges
,
and
then
shall
I
knowe
what
to
answere
vnto
.
In
the
meane
while
,
you
are
vnfortunate
to
stumble
so
grosselie
(
if
contradictinge
your selfe
in
so
shorte
a
space
may
be
termed
onlie
stumblinge
)
in
the
verie
entrance
of
your
dispute
.
My
position
shall
be
shewed
agreeable
both
with
holy
Scriptures
and
auncient
Fathers
in
due
place
.
And
as
for
your
authoritie
alleaged
out
of
S.
Epiphanius
,
if
it
be
in
him
(
as
I
knowe
no●
whether
it
be
or
noe
,
for
it
is
cited
by
you
so
at
large
that
I
cannot
finde
it
)
it
may
haue
this
true
sence
and
meaninge
;
That
all
thinges
are
cleare
in
scriptures
to
such
,
as
come
to
them
with
this
minde
to
vnderstande
them
as
the
catholicke
Churche
and
the
true
pastors
thereof
interpret
them
.
Which
sayinge
hath
noe
contrarietie
at
all
with
my
position
.
For
I
doe
not
say
that
the
scriptures
are
harde
to
be
vnderstoode
by
the
churche
,
or
that
they
neede
another
rule
to
be
interpreted
by
then
the
Churches
vnderstandinge
and
interpretation
.
PILK
.
The
sence
of
the
holy
scriptures
geuen
by
the
churche
is
vnfalliblie
true
;
as
are
also
the
definitions
and
declarations
of
faith
deliuered
by
the
same
,
and
euerie
one
is
bounde
vppon
his
damnation
not
to
reiect
the
iudgment
therof
.
Who
knoweth
not
that
the
holie
scriptures
CHAMP
.
You
doe
greatlie
abuse
your
readers
patience
farceinge
your
booke
with
such
impertinencies
.
And
you
doe
no
lesse
wronge
the
holy
Father
S.
August
bringinge
his
wordes
as
contradictinge
the
churches
infallibilitie
in
matters
of
faith
,
and
interpretation
of
the
scriptures
,
which
he
so
often
and
so
euidently
testifieth
.
But
to
conuince
you
of
wilfulnes
in
abusinge
S.
Aug.
it
shall
suffice
to
sett
here
before
you
that
onlie
Testimonie
of
the
same
holy
Father
which
is
expressed
in
the
Manuall
in
proofe
of
this
position
which
you
would
haue
him
to
contradict
.
His
wordes
there
sett
downe
are
these
.
Although
noe
example
is
brought
out
of
holie
scripture
of
this
thinge
(
that
the
Baptisme
of
heretickes
is
sufficient
)
yett
doe
we
followe
the
truth
of
the
same
scripture
in
this
point
,
whilst
we
doe
that
which
pleaseth
the
whole
Churche
,
which
the
authoritie
of
scriptures
doth
commend
.
And
because
the
holie
scripture
cannot
deceaue
,
whosoeuer
feareth
to
be
deceaued
by
the
obscuritie
of
these
questions
,
let●
him
consulte
therevpon
with
the
churche
,
which
without
all
doubte
the
scriptures
doe
shewe
.
Iudge
nowe
with
your selfe
whether
you
or
I
speake
more
conformablie
to
S.
Aug.
That
which
you
alleage
out
of
him
of
the
doctrine
of
particular
Bishopps
or
councells
,
compared
with
the
doctrine
of
holy
scripture
,
is
altogether
impertinent
to
your
purpose
.
That
which
he
saith
of
vniuersall
councells
that
the
former
may
be
amended
by
the
latter
,
is
vnderstoode
of
matters
pertayninge
to
manners
or
practise
,
which
often
are
changed
accordinge
as
circumstances
of
tyme
and
place
chaunge
and
alter
,
as
experience
teacheth
,
and
not
of
matters
of
faith
and
beliefe
,
which
are
euer
the
same
without
anie
chaunge
or
alteration
.
So
that
my
position
hath
no
other
contrarietie
with
S.
Aug.
doctrine
,
then
heate
hath
with
white
,
or
hearinge
with
seeinge
.
PILK
.
Vniuersalitie
is
a
note
to
finde
out
the
churche
by
.
Attende
not
those
companies
that
goe
CHAMP
.
The
farther
you
goe
,
the
more
your
ignoraunce
or
obstinacie
doth
appeare
.
Are
you
not
ashamed
to
make
S.
Aug.
att
oddes
with
the
Apostles
and
Nycen
Creede
,
both
which
make
vniuersalitie
a
note
&
propriety
of
the
true
churche
?
Besides
are
you
so
shallow
brayned
that
you
see
not
,
that
S.
Aug.
speaketh
here
of
baddly
liuinge
Christians
,
which
make
not
diuerse
churches
,
but
are
as
Chaffe
in
the
same
ba●ne
or
flore
with
the
good
Corne
,
and
not
of
misbeleeuing
heretiks
and
Sectaries
which
make
theire
conuenticles
a
parte
out
of
the
churche
,
and
are
neuer
comparable
to
the
true
churche
,
for
vniuersalitie
either
of
time
or
place
?
Againe
why
doe
you
charge
me
in
the
page
followinge
with
forgeinge
this
proposition
and
fatheringe
it
vppon
you
:
●he
true
churche
of
christe
is
not
necessarilie
Catholicke
or
vniuersall
▪
either
in
respect
of
place
or
tyme
:
if
you
wil
denie
vniuersallity
to
be
a
note
of
the
true
churche
?
You
are
so
busied
to
make
contrarieties
betwixt
my
positions
and
the
fathers
doctrine
,
that
you
runne
into
euident
contradictions
with
your selfe
,
and
that
within
the
space
of
a
litle
leafe
of
paper
.
Either
confesse
the
cause
which
you
would
defende
to
be
so
badd
that
it
inforceth
you
to
these
absurdities
,
or
leaue
the
defence
of
it
to
some
others
of
better
skill
and
iudgment
.
PILK
.
Thesis
papist
.
6.
▪
The
true
churche
of
God
is
visible
and
apparant
,
both
to
the
saithfull
beleeuers
that
are
in
it
,
and
also
to
heretickes
and
others
that
are
out
of
it
.
What
churche
nowe
freelie
serueth
CHAMP
.
If
you
woulde
haue
proued
the
truth
of
my
position
and
the
conformitie
thereof
with
the
doctrine
of
S.
Athanasius
,
you
could
not
easilie
haue
donne
it
more
effectuallie
,
then
by
the
testimonie
you
bringe
out
of
him
to
prooue
the
contrarie
;
so
deuoyde
of
iudgment
are
you
in
all
your
sayinges
.
For
the
churche
that
is
exposed
to
daungers
,
that
is
in
all
places
,
and
is
persecuted
,
is
doubtles
visible
both
to
the
faithfull
,
and
to
the
heretikes
.
Yea
those
seruantes
of
Christ
that
like
vnto
Elias
hide
themselue●
in
dennes
,
and
remaine
in
the
wildernes
,
are
not
inuisible
more
then
the
catholickes
nowe
are
in
Englande
,
whereof
some
parte
is
in
prison
,
others
are
in
woodes
and
wildernesses
,
as
these
were
of
whom
S.
Athanasius
speaketh
.
And
if
you
could
shewe
such
a
visible
churche
of
protestants
before
Martin
Luther
,
you
would
not
vse
the
shamelesse
shift
of
an
inuisible
churche
whereunto
you
are
driuen
by
meere
necessitie
.
PILK
.
S.
Peter
was
by
our
Sauiour
Christe
constituted
supreame
heade
or
soueraigne
Bishop
,
or
pastour
ouer
his
whole
churche
militant
.
Christe
gaue
to
all
his
Apostles
equall
CHAMP
.
The
equalitie
of
power
to
remitt
sinnes
,
or
as
the
diuines
terme
it
power
of
order
(
of
which
equalitie
S.
Cyprian
speaketh
)
in
all
the
Apostles
,
doth
stande
well
with
the
supremacie
of
the
power
,
of
iurisdiction
and
gouernment
,
which
S.
Cyprian
geueth
to
S.
Peeter
.
Againe
all
the
Apostles
were
of
equall
power
in
respect
of
the
rest
of
the
churche
,
but
not
in
respect
of
themselues
.
For
one
head
was
chosen
saith
S.
Hierome
that
the
occasion
of
schisme
PILK
.
The
Bishop
of
Rome
is
the
lawfull
and
lineall
successour
of
S.
Peter
,
in
that
charge
and
office
which
our
Sauiour
gaue
vnto
S.
Peter
ouer
his
churche
militant
.
Lett
none
of
vs
make
him selfe
bishop
CHAMP
.
I
knowe
not
whether
I
shoulde
ascribe
it
to
ignorance
or
peruersitie
,
that
you
produce
this
Testimonie
as
opposite
to
my
position
.
For
no
man
of
common
sence
that
readeth
in
S.
Aug.
whence
you
cite
it
,
but
will
iudge
it
most
impertinentlie
alleadged
for
your
purpose
.
S.
Cyprian
there
speakinge
to
his
fellowe
Bishopps
of
Affricke
,
willinge
them
to
giue
their
opinions
of
the
matter
proposed
(
which
was
touchinge
the
Baptisme
of
heretickes
)
professinge
to
keepe
vnion
and
communion
with
them
that
should
iudge
other
waies
then
he
did
.
And
this
without
mention
or
intention
to
include
in
his
speach
the
Bishope
of
Rome
,
but
directeth
his
wordes
to
the
Bishops
present
for
that
particular
matter
which
there
he
proposed
vnto
them
.
PILK
.
To
holy
Saincts
and
Angells
in
heauen
,
is
due
more
then
ciuill
honour
and
reuerence
.
We
honour
the
Angells
with
loue
not
seruice
,
we
builde
them
no
temples
&c
▪
our
CAMP
.
Your
ignorance
or
peruersitie
if
not
both
,
lieth
so
open
to
all
men
,
that
nothinge
else
appeareth
hitherto
in
you
.
If
you
had
read
S.
Aug:
and
but
halfe
vnderstoode
him
,
you
would
neuer
haue
dreamed
of
anie
Antithesis
betwixt
my
position
&
his
doctrine
.
Hee
speakinge
manifestlie
of
that
seruice
which
is
due
onlie
vnto
God
,
called
of
diuines
Latria
whereof
my
position
is
not
meant
.
And
if
to
make
your
Antithesis
good
,
you
will
contend
that
there
is
no
other
religious
woshippe
or
seruice
but
onlie
that
which
is
called
Latria
and
is
only
due
vnto
God
,
learne
of
S.
Aug
▪
to
correct
your
sencelesse
errour
.
Who
disputing
against
Faustus
and
haueinge
confessed
the
religious
worshippe
of
Martyrs
,
to
preuent
your
errour
,
addeth
these
wordes
.
But
with
that
worshippe
which
in
Greeke
is
called
Latria
,
and
in
Latin
cannot
be
expressed
in
one
worde
,
being
a
seruice
due
onlie
to
the
diuinitie
,
we
neither
worshippe
nor
teache
to
be
worshipped
but
God
onlie
.
Reade
the
whole
chapter
and
see
his
doctrine
more
at
large
and
you
shall
finde
that
in
S.
Aug.
opinion
,
Christian
religion
doth
not
forbidde
the
religious
worshippe
of
ma●tirs
who
are
no
more
to
be
called
dead
men
,
then
Abraham
Isaac
and
Iacob
of
whom
our
Sauiour
himselfe
testifieth
that
they
are
liuinge
.
Matt:
22
:
32
:
PILK
.
To
pray
to
the
angells
and
Saincts
in
heauen
is
lawfull
and
derogateth
no
whit
at
all
from
the
mediation
of
Christ
.
The
martirs
are
nominated
in
their
place
Aug.
Psal.
108
▪
turned
into
sinne
.
CHAMP
.
Thoughe
I
be
alreadie
wearie
of
your
impertinencies
,
yett
will
I
not
stick
to
refute
this
last
,
which
is
as
apparant
as
the
rest
.
First
therefore
,
thoughe
you
take
the
wordes
of
S.
Aug.
as
nakedlie
as
you
sett
them
downe
,
yett
doe
they
sounde
noe
Antithesis
with
my
position
,
hee
onlie
denyinge
,
that
Sacrifice
is
to
be
offered
to
martyrs
which
the
manuall
affirmeth
not
.
Secondlie
S.
Aug.
speaketh
onlie
of
such
inuocation
▪
as
the
heathens
vsed
to
theire
false
Gods
,
as
you
your selfe
cannot
denie
if
you
would
but
read
that
same
chapter
,
which
is
by
you
alleaged
,
and
therfore
his
doctrine
cannot
contradict
my
position
which
maketh
not
Saincts
to
be
Gods
,
nor
yett
to
be
worshipped
as
such
.
Furthermore
in
this
your
allegation
,
I
note
the
shamefull
beggarie
and
miserie
of
your
cause
,
which
is
such
that
you
cannott
begge
or
borrowe
of
the
holy
Fathers
the
least
seeminge
couer
for
one
soare
without
gaulinge
or
discoueringe
another
.
For
whilst
you
would
couer
your
heresie
of
not
prayinge
to
Saincts
with
a
patch
borrowed
of
S.
Aug:
you
shameleslie
discouer
and
lay
open
that
other
he●esie
of
yours
wherein
you
denie
the
sacrifice
of
the
churche
.
I
will
sett
downe
S.
Aug:
wordes
that
all
such
as
are
not
as
wilfullie
blinde
as
your
selfe
may
see
both
your
vanitie
in
this
Antithesis
,
&
the
confutation
of
your
heresie
against
the
sacrifice
of
the
newe
Testament
.
The
Gentils
(
saith
he
)
built
temples
,
erected
alters
,
ordered
priests
,
and
did
sacrifice
to
such
Gods
;
(
to
witt
Hercules
,
Romulus
and
the
like
)
But
we
builde
not
churches
to
our
Martyrs
as
to
Gods
,
but
memories
as
to
men
departed
▪
whose
soules
liue
with
God
;
neither
doe
we
erect
altars
there
to
Sacrifice
thereon
to
the
Martyrs
,
but
we
Sacrifice
to
one
God
,
whoe
is
our
God
,
and
the
God
also
of
the
Martyrs
:
in
which
sacrifice
they
are
named
in
theire
place
and
rancke
,
as
men
of
God
who
vanquished
the
world
in
confessinge
him
bu
they
are
not
inuocated
(
to
witt
as
Gods
)
by
the
priest
that
sacrificeth
,
for
he
sacrificeth
to
God
and
not
to
them
▪
thoughe
he
sacrifice
in
their
memorie
,
because
he
it
the
priest
of
God
and
not
of
them
.
And
the
sacrifice
is
the
Boddie
of
Christ
,
&c.
Your
other
testimonie
out
of
S.
Aug.
vppon
the
psalme
108.
is
yett
more
foolishlie
alleaged
.
As
thoughe
for
soothe
those
prayers
which
are
made
to
God
by
his
Saincts
,
were
not
made
vnto
him
by
his
sonne
our
Sauiour
?
Your
peruersitie
hath
made
you
intollerablie
ignorant
if
you
thinke
so
.
Againe
S.
Aug.
there
speaketh
nothinge
of
prayers
made
to
Saincts
,
but
of
prayers
made
by
Iudas
,
who
sellinge
and
betrayinge
Christ
,
did
not
onlie
not
pray
by
him
,
but
against
him
,
which
being
so
,
hence
I
gather
that
if
you
sawe
and
read
S.
Aug.
your selfe
,
you
haue
a
most
wicked
minde
,
wittinglie
labouringe
to
induce
you●lesse
carefull
and
warie
reader
into
errour
.
A
degree
of
malice
almost
proper
to
the
deuill
himselfe
.
PILK
.
The
like
may
bee
verified
of
the
rest
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
cal
this
verifyinge
,
I
desire
you
should
alway
plead
against
me
,
and
neuer
for
me
.
For
hitherto
haue
you
not
verified
anie
apparant
contrarietie
betwixt
my
position
and
the
fathers
doctrine
,
thoughe
you
bragginglie
pretend
to
bringe
direct
contradiction
betweene
them
.
And
in
this
dare
I
stand
to
the
iudgment
of
your
owne
patron
of
Canterburie
,
vppon
condition
that
he
will
read
the
places
in
the
fathers
cited
by
you
.
I
will
except
that
of
S.
Cyprian
brought
for
the
7.
Antithesis
,
which
though
no
more
true
indeede
then
the
rest
,
yett
hath
it
a
more
apparancie
in
wordes
then
the
rest
,
and
so
is
willinglie
vnderstoode
by
your selfe
,
and
all
the
aduersaries
of
S.
Peters
primacie
.
After
your
Antithesis
you
putt
downe
a
roll
of
forged
positions
as
thoughe
I
had
imposed
them
vppon
you
and
your
fellowe
protestants
.
To
which
I
answere
first
in
generall
,
that
if
it
had
not
pleased
you
to
winke
att
,
and
ouerlooke
that
which
I
say
neither
confusedlie
nor
obscurelie
in
my
preface
,
you
would
not
(
if
you
would
haue
sayd
the
truth
)
charge
me
with
forgeing
anie
positions
against
you
.
I
will
here
sett
downe
myne
owne
wordes
which
shall
cleare
me
of
that
imputation
,
I
thinke
euen
with
mine
aduersaries
,
if
they
be
not
wilfullie
malignant
.
Thus
therefore
I
say
there
.
First
I
jett
downe
the
Catholike
Roman
beliefe
in
direct
and
plaine
positions
&c.
And
last
of
all
I
putt
downe
the
position
contradictorie
to
the
Catholike
doctrine
▪
to
the
end
that
the
indfferent
reader
may
more
easilie
iudge
,
whether
doctrine
hath
better
grounde
in
holy
Scripture
.
And
further
that
he
that
will
impugne
this
treatise
,
may
see
,
what
he
hath
to
prooue
if
hee
wil
prooue
any
thinge
to
purpose
.
That
is
if
he
will
prooue
anie
thinge
against
the
Catholike
Faith
,
which
onlie
I
vndertake
in
the
Manuall
to
prooue
,
and
not
to
impugne
or
disprooue
the
protestants
,
further
then
the
proofe
of
one
contradictorie
,
is
the
disproofe
of
the
other
.
Without
reason
therefore
doe
you
charge
me
with
forgeinge
positions
,
thoughe
amongst
these
which
I
sett
downe
vnder
this
note
in
the
margent
,
Protestants
positions
,
some
were
founde
,
which
they
doe
not
mantayne
(
which
whether
it
be
so
or
no
we
shall
presentlie
examine
)
for
I
putt
the
position
contradictorie
to
the
Catholike
,
vnder
the
title
of
protestant
position
for
this
cause
(
as
I
haue
sayde
before
)
that
if
anie
protestant
will
denie
or
impugne
the
catholike
position
prooued
by
me
,
he
may
see
the
direct
position
which
he
is
to
prooue
.
If
therefore
there
be
anie
of
the
catholique
positions
sett
downe
by
me
,
admitted
and
acknowledged
as
true
and
orthodoxe
,
then
is
not
the
contradictorie
position
inforced
or
imposed
vppon
them
to
prooue
.
But
if
they
reiect
all
the
Catholicke
positions
as
false
and
erroneous
(
as
they
will
be
found
to
doe
)
then
must
they
whether
they
will
or
noe
,
acknowledge
the
contradictorie
position
to
be
theirs
,
vnles
they
will
graunt
that
both
contradictorie
positions
may
be
true
or
both
false
,
which
noe
man
euer
yett
admitted
.
And
thus
much
sir
for
your
charge
of
forged
positions
in
generall
,
now
we
will
examine
the
particular
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
I.
Forged
positions
.
All
Articles
of
faith
are
contayned
expressly
in
holy
Scripture
.
CHAMP
.
Of
this
position
thus
sett
downe
it
is
true
,
you
say
,
that
it
is
forged
,
but
it
is
by
your selfe
,
not
by
mee
:
for
it
is
no
where
sett
downe
by
me
.
The
position
of
mine
which
you
aime
at
beinge
this
page
20.
vnder
this
note
:
Protestant
position
1.
All
articles
of
faith
are
so
expresselie
contained
in
scripture
as
out
of
them
onlie
full
proofe
may
be
made
thereof
.
Which
position
if
you
will
denie
to
be
yours
;
take
here
your
owne
wordes
in
witnes
against
you
.
If
you
meane
the
sence
and
substance
,
and
that
which
may
be
deduced
by
necessarie
consequence
,
then
it
is
false
that
full
proofe
cannot
be
made
of
all
articles
of
faith
out
of
scripture
.
I
am
content
to
bringe
your
owne
Testimonie
onlie
in
a
thinge
so
manifest
,
without
further
proofe
out
of
other
of
your
owne
sect
.
Onlie
I
cannot
sufficientlie
marueyle
,
what
complexion
you
are
of
,
that
haue
so
littell
care
and
feelinge
of
your
owne
credit
,
and
of
the
cause
you
would
defend
,
that
you
committ
so
manie
fowle
fayles
in
so
fewe
lines
.
Certainlie
if
you
hold
on
in
this
manner
,
you
shall
haue
the
prise
of
all
either
falle
or
foolishe
fellowes
that
euer
blotted
paper
,
but
let
vs
proceede
further
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
II.
All
places
of
holy
scriptures
contayninge
articles
of
faith
are
easie
to
be
vnderstoode
.
CHAMP
.
You
fayle
in
puttinge
downe
this
position
also
,
(
so
harde
it
is
for
you
to
deale
honestlie
)
which
in
the
Manuall
is
sett
downe
thus
.
All
places
of
holy
scripture
contayninge
articles
of
faith
,
the
obstinate
misbeleefe
where
of
is
damnable
,
are
easie
to
be
vnderstoode
,
and
therefore
require
noe
rule
to
be
interpreted
by
.
Which
proposition
you
cannot
denie
to
be
yours
without
denyinge
your selfe
.
For
doe
you
not
remember
that
in
your
third
Antithesis
,
you
say
I
contradict
S.
Epiphaniu
▪
for
sayinge
that
the
scriptures
are
darke
and
difficult
to
be
vnderstoode
?
why
doe
you
therfore
denie
this
position
,
All
places
of
scripture
contain
〈…〉
matters
of
faith
,
are
easie
to
be
vnderstoode
,
here
sett
downe
by
you
to
be
yours
,
vnles
you
will
also
contradict
that
holy
Father
,
which
you
falselie
obiect
vnto
me
?
but
it
is
is
a
bootles
thinge
to
tell
you
of
contradictions
,
they
are
so
frequent
with
you
.
Therfore
to
lett
that
passe
that
you
may
knowe
if
you
were
so
ignorant
in
your
owne
doctrine
as
you
knewe
it
not
before
,
that
it
is
good
protestant
doctrine
,
heare
your
Father
and
founder
Luther
what
he
saith
of
his
matter
.
We
must
geue
this
sentence
the
scripture
beinge
iudge
that
it
is
of
it selfe
most
certaine
,
most
easie
,
most
open
or
apparant
,
interpreter
of
it selfe
,
proouinge
all
thinges
,
iudgeing
all
thinges
,
and
illustratinge
all
thinges
.
And
in
another
place
.
I
say
of
the
whole
scripture
.
I
will
haue
noe
part
thereof
to
be
obscure
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
the
present
to
purge
me
of
forgerie
in
this
matter
,
hauinge
more
to
say
thereof
hereafter
when
we
shall
come
to
speake
of
the
article
it selfe
if
we
goe
together
so
farre
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
III.
The
true
churche
of
Christ
is
not
necessarilie
Catholike
or
vniuersall
neither
in
respect
of
tyme
nor
place
.
CHAMP
.
This
position
you
sett
downe
trulie
,
which
I
maruel
that
you
denie
to
be
yours
.
Bycause
the
contradictorie
position
being
admitted
for
true
,
as
it
must
necessarilie
be
,
if
this
be
false
,
your
protestant
churche
,
which
noe
witt
nor
coninge
can
euer
shewe
to
haue
hadd
either
kinde
of
vniuersalitie
,
must
of
necessitie
be
a
forged
or
counterfait
churche
.
And
for
what
other
cause
thinke
you
did
Luther
in
the
Creede
,
turned
by
him
into
Dutch
,
in
steede
of
the
Catholicke
churche
,
thrust
in
the
Christian
churche
,
but
to
auoyde
the
force
of
the
worde
Catholicke
?
which
he
did
so
dislike
,
that
his
disciples
in
the
conferrence
att
Altemberge
reiected
a
certayne
proposition
PILK
.
POSITIO
IV.
The
true
churche
of
Christ
may
be
without
a
lawfull
personnall
succession
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
denie
this
position
to
be
true
in
your
doctrine
,
then
must
you
necessarilie
graunt
the
contradictorie
to
be
true
;
which
if
you
doe
your
newlie
reformed
churche
,
will
euidentlie
appeare
no
lawfull
churche
.
And
for
further
proofe
of
the
want
of
succession
of
pastours
in
your
Englishe
Churche
,
I
referr
you
to
my
booke
in
answere
to
Mr.
Mason
,
which
till
it
be
answered
(
I
say
answered
indeede
,
and
not
onlie
replyed
vnto
in
a
heape
of
wordes
as
you
haue
donne
to
my
Manuall
)
I
shall
euer
holde
as
a
sufficient
proofe
,
and
as
for
your
Sister
churches
of
Fraunce
,
they
make
profession
in
theire
verie
confession
of
their●
faith
,
that
the
state
of
the
churche
haueinge
been
interrupted
,
it
was
necessarie
that
God
shoulde
raise
vppe
men
by
extraordinarie
meanes
to
repaire
his
church
a
newe
which
was
ruined
Iudge
you
therefore
whether
they
denie
the
position
which
you
say
is
forged
by
me
against
you
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
V.
The
lawfull
succession
of
pastours
,
may
be
without
Consecration
or
authenticall
mission
by
anie
ordinarie
power
residinge
in
the
Churche
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
houlde
your
Sister
churches
of
France
to
be
lawfull
churches
you
cannot
denie
this
position
to
be
true
in
your
doctrine
,
as
appeareth
by
theire
confession
euen
nowe
alleaged
whereunto
I
referr
you
.
And
as
for
the
consecration
of
your
pastours
of
your
newe
churche
of
Englande
,
it
is
so
farr
from
beinge
ordinarie
,
that
it
was
neuer
hearde
of
before
Kinge
PILK
.
POSITIO
VI.
It
is
not
necessarie
for
euerie
mans
saluation
that
he
be
baptized
.
CHAMP
.
It
seemeth
you
haue
not
yett
learned
the
rudiments
of
your
religion
,
seinge
you
number
this
position
amongst
those
that
you
esteeme
forged
against
you
.
See
therefore
for
your
better
instruction
in
this
point
of
Catechisme
,
your
grande
maister
in
reformation
Iohn
Caluin
in
Antidoto
Concilij
ad
Sess.
cap.
5.
and
lib.
4.
instit.
cap.
16.
§.
24.
25.
Peter
Martyr
another
of
your
maysters
vppon
these
wordes
of
the
Apostle
.
Alinqui
filij
vesiri
in
mundi
essent
.
1.
Cor.
Fulke
Marci
1.
Sect.
5.
with
the
whole
crue
of
Puritans
or
Caluinistes
.
Or
if
you
will
not
looke
so
farr
,
see
the
first
dayes
conferrence
of
Hampton
Courte
,
and
see
what
you
finde
there
of
this
point
.
And
either
blushe
at
your
ignorance
in
the
principales
of
your
religion
,
or
if
you
like
not
the
doctrine
,
leaue
the
companie
where
it
is
taught
,
and
vnite
your selfe
to
the
Catholicke
Churche
where
it
is
abhorred
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
VII
.
Matrimonie
contracted
betweene
Christians
is
but
a
ciuill
contract
.
CHAMP
.
You
are
soone
wearie
of
honest
dealinge
,
and
quicklie
returne
to
your
accustomed
falsifications
.
I
doe
blushe
in
your
behalfe
that
I
am
forced
to
tell
you
so
often
of
it
in
so
fewe
lines
.
The
position
in
the
Manuall
addeth
to
the
wordes
sett
downe
by
you
;
And
not
Sacrament
properlie
.
Which
if
you
had
added
,
you
would
haue
been
ashamed
to
haue
saide
the
position
to
be
forged
.
If
you
will
cauill
&
say
that
thoughe
it
be
no
Sacrament
,
yett
is
it
not
a
bare
ciuill
contract
:
I
,
will
not
stande
here
to
debate
that
question
with
you
beinge
not
materiall
to
my
purpose
,
which
was
to
prooue
Matrimonie
to
be
a
Sacrament
,
accordinge
to
the
catholicke
doctrine
,
aboue
and
besides
the
ciuill
contract
therein
contayned
,
and
if
you
should
be
vrged
to
shewe
in
the
precise
nature
of
matrimonie
,
anie
thinge
more
then
a
ciuill
contract
,
seeinge
you
denie
it
to
be
a
Sacrament
,
you
would
I
knowe
be
troubled
,
and
would
not
easilie
quitte
your selfe
of
that
bussines
.
And
Caluin
whose
authoritie
is
of
some
weight
with
you
,
compareth
it
to
the
arte
of
husbandrie
,
barbinge
and
weauinge
lib.
4.
Instit.
cap.
18.
§.
34.
PILK
.
POSITIO
VIII
.
Baptisme
and
the
lordes
supper
are
not
instruments
of
Grace
,
but
onlie
signes
of
gods
good
will
towardes
vs
,
or
meanes
to
stirre
vppe
faith
in
vs
.
CHAMP
.
Heere
againe
I
am
constrained
to
tell
you
of
your
false
dealinge
.
The
position
sett
downe
by
me
is
this
.
Neither
Baptisme
nor
the
other
Sacraments
of
the
newe
lawe
geue
grace
as
cause
thereof
,
but
are
onlie
signes
of
gods
good
will
towardes
vs
,
or
meanes
to
stirre
vppe
Fayth
in
vs
.
What
materiall
diuersitie
you
will
finde
betwixt
this
position
and
the
25.
article
of
your
churche
,
I
knowe
not
.
It
saith
thus
.
Sacraments
be
not
onlie
badges
or
tokens
of
christian
mens
profession
,
but
rather
they
be
certaine
sure
witnesses
and
effectuall
signes
of
grace
,
and
gods
good-will
towardes
vs
,
by
which
he
doth
worke
inuisiblie
in
vs
,
and
not
onlie
quicken
,
but
also
confirme
and
stregthen
our
fayth
in
him
.
And
your
maister
in
reformation
Caluin
speaketh
yett
more
conformablie
to
the
position
sett
downe
by
me
;
heare
his
owne
wordes
.
This
onlie
office
is
inioyned
to
the
Sacraments
to
Instit.
li.
4.
c
14.
§
6.
&
17.
witnes
to
vs
and
confirme
in
vs
gods
good
will
.
And
againe
.
The
Sacraments
are
to
vs
from
God
,
as
are
messengers
of
gladd
bidinge
from
men
;
or
as
an
ernest
pennie
in
stricking
couenants
;
as
not
geueinge
anie
grace
of
themselues
,
but
declare
and
shewe
,
and
as
they
are
earnest
money
or
tokens
)
doe
ratifie
in
vs
those
thinges
which
by
gods
liberalitie
are
geuen
vnto
vs
.
And
for
more
cleare
explication
of
his
meaninge
he
vseth
in
the
18.
Section
follwinge
the
examples
of
the
raynbowe
,
and
of
Gedions
fleece
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
this
present
to
cleare
me
of
forgerie
,
and
to
prooue
you
ignorant
in
the
principales
of
your
owne
erroneous
doctrine
,
vnles
peraduenture
you
be
ashamed
of
it
and
therefore
denie
it
to
be
yours
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
IX
.
Iustification
is
onlie
remission
of
sinnes
.
CHAMP
.
You
are
as
obstinate
in
false
dealinge
as
if
you
had
sworne
neuer
to
deale
truelie
.
The
position
in
the
manuall
is
sett
downe
in
these
wordes
.
Iustification
is
onlie
the
remission
of
sinnes
without
renmation
of
spirit
or
interiour
Sanctification
.
which
position
if
you
dare
to
denie
to
be
trulie
protestanticall
,
all
those
of
your
sect
that
haue
written
of
Iustification
will
condemne
you
of
ignorance
in
theire
doctrine
.
PILK
.
POSITIO
X.
By
Iustification
sinne
is
onlie
couered
and
not
quite
taken
away
.
CHAMP
.
Why
did
you
omitte
to
say
as
I
said
,
seeing
the
position
sett
downe
by
me
is
so
breife
in
these
wordes
.
By
Iustification
sinne
is
onlie
couered
or
not
imputed
;
and
not
washed
or
quite
taken
away
?
Surelie
for
noe
other
cause
I
thinke
,
but
to
keepe
your selfe
in
custome
with
clippinge
and
gueldinge
,
as
he
did
that
did
steale
strawes
to
keepe
his
fingers
in
we
with
filchinge
;
but
peraduenture
you
feared
the
worde
not
imputed
,
so
often
abused
by
your
maysters
;
and
the
worde
washed
,
vsed
in
the
holy
Scriptures
.
Howsoeuer
your
errour
in
imputinge
to
me
sorgerie
in
this
position
is
not
pardonable
.
Cannot
you
vtter
one
position
but
with
manifest
falsification
or
palpable
ignorance
or
both
?
Reade
onlie
the
seconde
article
of
Luther
(
for
I
will
trouble
you
with
no
moe
It
is
another
thinge
that
al
sinnes
are
remitted
,
and
another
that
all
sinnes
are
taken
away
.
Baptisme
doth
remitte
all
,
but
it
taketh
none
quite
away
,
but
beginneth
onlie
to
take
them
away
Againe
your
knowne
doctrine
of
imputatiue
and
not
inherent
iustice
,
doth
it
not
necessarilie
inforce
you
to
say
,
that
our
sinnes
are
only
couered
or
not
imputed
,
but
not
washed
and
quite
taken
away
?
PILK
.
POSITIO
XI
.
Man
thoughe
holpen
by
Gods
grace
,
hath
not
free
will
,
either
to
fly
ame
euill
,
or
to
doe
good
auaylinge
to
his
Saluation
,
but
in
both
is
forced
to
doe
that
which
God
hath
ordayned
he
shoulde
doe
.
CHAMP
.
This
position
haue
you
trulie
sett
downe
.
But
why
doe
you
say
that
it
is
forged
?
The
sole
title
of
your
first
maister
Luther
his
booke
de
seruo
arburio
.
might
haue
taught
you
that
it
is
his
professed
doctrine
.
Reade
further
his
36.
article
where
besides
manie
other
thinges
to
this
purpose
he
hath
these
expresse
I
said
ill
that
freewill
before
grace
is
a
meere
rule
:
But
I
shoulde
haue
sayde
that
frewill
is
a
fiction
or
a
title
without
the
thinge
.
Because
it
is
in
no
mans
power
to
thinke
either
good
or
badd
,
but
all
thinges
(
as
Wicleffe
his
article
condemned
at
Constance
ri
helie
teacheth
)
doe
happen
by
absolute
necessitie
And
thus
you
see
Sir
your
Catalogue
of
antithesis
and
roll
of
forged
posi●ions
which
you
muster
in
the
beginninge
of
your
booke
,
to
deceiue
your
l●sse
warie
reader
,
and
disgrace
your
aduersarie
,
is
blowne
away
more
easilie
,
then
a
Cop-webb
is
broken
with
the
winde
,
to
your
owne
irrecouerable
disgrace
and
dishonour
,
vnless
you
prooue
more
solide
and
sincere
in
the
rest
of
your
booke
.
Which
if
you
doe
not
,
I
shall
much
marueyle
if
euer
you
be
more
imployed
by
your
Metropolitane
,
either
to
defend
your
owne
,
or
impugne
the
Catholicke
doctrine
.
And
before
I
goe
anie
further
with
you
,
I
would
haue
you
to
vnderstande
,
that
when
I
putt
downe
the
position
contradictorie
to
the
Catholicke
,
I
doe
not
distinguishe
betwixt
this
or
that
sect
of
protestants
,
but
include
them
all
that
hold
or
teache
against
the
Catholicke
doctrine
,
whether
they
be
Lutherans
,
Zuinglians
,
Anabaptists
or
Parlamentarians
,
all
which
with
the
rest
of
all
there
malignant
broode
,
I
vnderstande
by
the
name
of
protestants
.
Nowe
I
will
goe
forwarde
with
you
in
this
order
;
I
will
first
sett
downe
the
wordes
of
the
Manuall
in
sections
as
you
haue
deuided
it
,
then
I
will
putt
downe
your
answere
in
your
owne
wordes
,
and
lastlie
I
will
add
myne
owne
reply
.
THE
PREFACE
TO
THE
READER
.
MANVALL
.
SECTION
I.
THis
briefe
treatise
(
courteous
reader
)
beinge
at
the
request
of
a
friende
speedilie
compiled
,
may
serue
to
conuince
them
of
manifest
calumnie
,
who
no
lesse
vntrulie
,
then
bouldlie
doe
affirme
the
doctrine
of
the
Catholicke
Romane
Churche
,
to
be
either
against
holy
scriptures
,
or
at
least
to
haue
no
grounde
from
them
.
And
it
may
also
geue
satisfaction
vnto
such
,
as
more
vppon
the
confident
boldenes
of
them
that
affirme
the
Romane
Religion
to
be
destitute
of
scriptures
,
then
vppon
anie
other
reason
,
are
drawne
either
to
thinke
this
to
be
true
,
or
at
least
to
doubte
of
the
truthe
of
the
contrarie
.
PILK
.
He
that
aduisedlie
shall
read
your
Manuall
of
Controuersies
,
will
easilie
beleeue
you
were
in
haste
when
you
contriued
it
,
forgettinge
that
wise
speach
of
Cato
,
reported
by
Hierome
(
Sat
cito
,
si
sat
bene
)
For
whether
it
were
your
great
celeritie
,
which
is
the
mother
of
manie
slippes
,
or
whether
it
be
the
badnes
of
your
cause
,
that
admitteth
noe
iust
,
scarse
probable
proofe
,
so
perfunctorilie
and
lightlie
(
tanquam
canis
à
nido
)
you
haue
touched
these
matters
,
as
if
of
purpose
you
would
haue
setled
in
the
mindes
of
men
,
that
which
you
labour
to
ouerthrowe
.
So
that
if
poperie
haue
noe
surer
footinge
in
the
sacred
worde
of
God
,
then
this
which
you
haue
found
for
it
,
then
it
will
appeare
noe
calumnnie
,
but
a
manifest
veritie
,
that
the
Roman
religion
is
without
grounde
of
scripture
.
CHAMP
.
Mr.
Pilkinton
thoughe
your
wordes
be
manie
,
&
as
emptie
of
substance
as
they
are
full
of
falsities
,
and
therefore
will
neither
quitte
labour
nor
cost
to
relate
them
,
yett
will
I
sustaine
so
much
paines
,
as
to
sett
them
downe
as
they
lye
,
so
farr
as
I
shall
goe
with
you
,
I
say
so
farr
as
I
shall
goe
with
you
,
because
I
intend
not
to
loose
so
much
tyme
as
to
looke
thorowe
your
whole
booke
.
As
for
the
slippes
therefore
you
speake
of
,
if
you
shall
make
good
but
one
quarter
so
manie
in
my
whole
booke
(
notwithstandinge
the
the
celeritie
I
vsed
in
compilinge
it
)
as
I
haue
allreadie
marked
grosse
and
flatt
falls
in
three
pages
onlie
of
yours
(
after
fower
whole
yeres
studie
in
the
worke
)
I
promise
you
faithfullie
I
will
commend
it
to
the
fire
,
to
be
forged
a
newe
.
And
thoughe
Catholicke
religion
(
which
you
disdainsullie
call
poperie
)
had
no
other
footinge
in
holy
Scripture
,
then
that
which
I
haue
sett
downe
in
proofe
of
it
,
yett
will
it
be
better
grounded
,
then
your
protestantisme
,
euen
by
the
iudgment
of
your
owne
freindes
and
myne
aduersaries
,
if
they
will
but
with
one
sparke
of
iudgment
and
indifferrencie
parallel
your
proofes
and
myne
together
.
PILK
.
First
you
confesse
that
the
Scripture
is
not
the
totall
but
the
partiall
rule
of
your
faith
,
therefore
that
parte
of
your
faith
,
which
is
with
out
the
compasse
of
this
rule
,
hath
no
proofe
or
grounde
from
it
,
for
the
rule
is
that
whereby
euerie
thinge
is
prooued
.
Nowe
the
thinges
without
the
CHAMP
.
I
confesse
the
Scriptures
to
be
a
partiall
rule
of
our
faith
,
if
we
speake
of
those
thinge
which
are
expresslie
contayned
in
Scripture
,
and
therefore
I
say
there
must
necessarilie
be
a
more
vniuersal
rule
of
saith
than
the
expresse
Scriptures
,
by
which
rule
we
receiue
and
beleeue
the
Scriptures
themselues
to
be
such
.
And
this
is
true
by
the
iudgment
of
manie
most
iudicious
protestants
.
Notwithstāndinge
the
Manuall
expresslie
teacheth
that
all
articles
of
saith
are
contained
in
scriptures
,
so
fair
as
they
testifie
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
veritie
of
traditions
.
In
which
sence
the
scriptures
may
trulie
be
sayde
to
be
a
totall
rule
of
our
faith
.
Where
you
say
that
others
teache
and
I
accorde
,
that
the
least
parte
of
the
Gospell
is
come
to
vs
by
writinge
:
For
my selfe
I
answere
with
as
much
modestie
as
I
may
,
that
you
sowlie
belie
me
.
For
I
neuer
so
much
as
dreamed
anie
such
thinge
.
If
you
groonde
this
ficton
vppon
that
which
I
say
,
I
here
must
needes
be
a
more
vniuersall
rule
of
faith
then
the
scriptures
,
vnderstandinge
me
that
moe
thinges
in
number
are
taught
vs
by
tradition
alone
,
then
by
the
written
worde
,
(
which
interpretation
you
seeme
to
make
of
my
wordes
)
I
cannot
trulie
blame
my
manner
of
speach
,
but
either
your
dull
or
captious
vnderstandinge
;
my
wordes
are
plaine
,
that
because
we
beleeue
some
thinges
without
expresse
scripture
,
as
that
there
is
a
holy
scripture
,
and
that
it
is
contayned
in
these
and
these
bookes
,
which
is
no
where
expressed
in
holy
scripture
,
there
must
necessarilie
be
some
other
rule
more
vniuersall
,
that
is
,
which
teacheth
some
thinges
besides
that
which
is
directlie
expressed
in
the
holy
scripture
.
You
cite
in
the
margent
Hosius
whom
it
seemeth
you
vnderstande
in
the
same
manner
(
I
say
it
seemeth
,
for
whether
it
be
for
negligence
or
fraude
,
you
make
no
reference
for
what
purpose
you
cite
him
,
neither
doe
you
putt
downe
his
wordes
,
for
so
might
you
haue
been
taken
trippinge
)
but
I
finde
nothinge
in
him
soundinge
to
this
purpose
.
Hee
hath
this
indeede
,
that
the
scripture
commaundinge
vs
to
heare
our
pastonrs
with
whome
Christe
promised
to
be
alwayes
vntill
the
end
of
the
worlde
;
it
is
founde
true
that
S.
Hierome
saith
,
that
the
scriptures
containe
all
thinges
.
Our
diuines
you
say
are
bound
in
conscience
to
deliuer
vnto
you
a
catologue
of
our
traditions
,
seinge
the
Councell
of
Trent
chargeth
to
geue
equall
credit
to
traditions
and
to
holy
Scripture
.
But
you
are
fowly
deceaued
;
For
our
diuines
are
bounde
to
receiue
those
traditions
which
the
churche
deliuereth
vnto
them
,
and
to
desend
them
against
your
Cauills
,
and
not
prescribe
vnto
the
churche
what
traditions
shee
shoulde
receiue
.
This
pride
and
arrogance
pertaineth
properlie
to
you
Sectmaisters
,
who
preferr
your
owne
priuate
opinions
before
the
iudgment
of
the
whole
churche
,
which
pride
is
the
verie
roote
and
cause
of
all
heresie
and
errour
that
hath
been
in
the
worlde
.
PILK
.
Neuertheles
the
moste
of
these
positions
here
CHAMP
.
You
are
resolued
I
perceiue
to
be
shameleslie
impudent
;
not
blushinge
to
write
that
the
moste
of
the
points
proued
by
me
out
of
Scripture
to
be
confessed
by
catholickes
to
be
beleeued
onlie
vppon
tradition
,
and
namelie
all
these
sett
downe
in
your
wordes
nowe
related
.
Why
doe
you
deale
so
vnderboarde
as
not
to
sett
downe
the
Authors
wordes
whose
names
you
putt
in
the
margent
?
you
feare
the
tryall
and
therefore
you
walke
in
obscuritie
.
So
manie
falsities
as
you
haue
been
taken
with
alreadie
,
will
make
your
reader
warie
enoughe
to
beleeue
you
noe
further
,
than
he
seeth
proofe
of
your
sayinges
.
And
whether
you
and
yours
,
or
limitate
more
fairlie
the
ancient
heretikes
in
alleaginge
Scriptures
for
theire
errours
to
deceaue
the
simple
,
it
will
appeare
by
the
progresse
of
our
dispute
.
PILK
.
And
how
can
you
persuade
the
worlde
that
CHAMP
.
That
the
scriptures
are
branded
by
anie
of
our
men
to
be
inconstant
,
mutable
or
fitted
to
the
tyme
,
is
your
owne
slaunderous
fiction
;
or
if
it
be
not
,
bring
foorth
your
author
and
iustifie
your selfe
of
so
shameles
a
slaunder
.
That
the
scriptures
may
be
diuersslie
vnderstoode
if
you
denie
,
who
is
he
of
all
your
fellowes
that
wil
beleeue
you
?
Surelie
noe
man
that
is
awake
,
but
will
thinke
rather
that
you
dreamed
when
you
wrote
this
,
then
he
will
thinke
that
the
scriptures
cannot
be
vnderstoode
diuerslie
,
which
beinge
so
euident
by
daylie
experience
,
that
noe
man
in
his
senses
can
denie
it
,
who
seeth
not
the
necessitie
of
some
iudgment
to
determine
which
is
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
thereof
.
But
that
is
the
thinge
you
feare
,
which
rather
then
you
will
graunt
,
you
say
that
which
a
drunken
man
woulde
be
ashamed
to
haue
sayde
.
The
insufficiencie
of
the
scriptures
to
instruct
the
churche
in
al
matters
of
faith
,
standeth
right
wel
with
theire
sufficiencie
to
prooue
those
thinges
which
are
contained
expreslie
in
them
;
And
therefore
your
argument
whereby
you
would
conclude
against
me
,
the
insufficiencie
of
scriptures
to
prooue
anie
article
of
faith
,
because
I
say
it
is
not
sufficient
to
prooue
all
the
Articles
of
faith
is
more
then
childish
,
and
like
vnto
this
.
The
first
chapter
of
Genesis
is
no●
sufficient
to
prooue
all
the
articles
of
christian
faith
,
therefore
it
is
not
sufficient
to
prooue
that
God
created
the
worlde
.
Woulde
you
(
I
pray
you
)
admitte
this
argument
as
good
?
I
thinke
not
,
thoughe
I
knowe
you
impertinent
enoughe
;
why
therefore
doe
you
goe
aboute
to
conclude
your
purpose
against
your
aduersarie
by
the
like
argument
?
leaue
for
shame
to
make
your selfe
so
ridiculous
,
seinge
you
write
your selfe
so
doctor
of
Diuinitie
.
As
for
the
worde
imperfect
,
I
doe
not
knowe
anie
catholicke
that
doth
vse
it
;
yett
if
it
haue
no
other
meaninge
then
insufficient
to
prooue
all
the
articles
of
faith
,
it
is
not
reprehensible
&
helpeth
your
cause
nothinge
at
all
.
The
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
councell
,
and
tradition
in
explication
of
scriptures
,
is
as
friuolusly
alleaged
by
you
,
to
impugne
the
authoritie
of
the
same
scriptures
,
as
if
you
shoulde
say
the
authoritie
of
the
iudges
or
customes
in
England
or
anie
other
kingdome
,
to
interprete
or
expounde
the
Lawe
doth
violate
and
impeach
the
authoritie
of
the
Lawe
.
Your
impertinencies
are
without
measure
or
number
.
The
Pope
is
not
the
Churche
as
you
more
then
childishlie
terme
him
,
but
he
is
the
heade
&
cheefe
pastour
of
Gods
Churche
militant
here
vppon
earth
,
malgree
all
your
spite
and
malice
,
and
therefore
are
you
bound
to
heare
and
obey
him
,
if
you
woulde
heare
our
Sauiour
Christ
,
who
hath
expreslie
sayde
of
all
the
pastours
of
his
churche
,
he
that
heareth
you
,
heareth
me
:
but
because
you
depise
to
heare
our
Sauiour
Christe
,
who
addeth
in
the
same
place
,
he
that
despiseth
you
,
despiseth
me
,
therefore
you
scorne
to
heare
your
pastour
.
MANVALL
.
SECT.
II.
But
before
thou
proceede
to
viewe
the
thinge
it selfe
,
I
desire
thee
to
consider
wel
these
fewe
points
followinge
.
First
that
no
proofe
of
anie
point
of
christian
beliefe
can
be
so
direct
and
full
out
of
holy
scripture
,
that
may
not
be
deluded
by
false
interpretation
.
For
the
damned
Arrians
,
and
most
other
heretikes
coulde
interprete
all
places
of
holy
scripture
,
brought
by
the
catholikes
against
theire
heresie
,
in
such
sence
,
as
beinge
so
vnderstoode
,
they
make
nothinge
against
it
:
yea
that
noe
lesse
seelie
then
peruerse
heretike
Legate
(
burned
in
Smithfielde
not
longe
since
for
Arrianisme
)
coulde
not
be
conuinced
of
heresie
by
onlie
scripture
.
Such
proofes
therefore
of
catholicke
doctrine
as
cannot
be
deluded
by
anie
interpretation
,
are
not
to
be
expected
out
of
holie
scripture
.
PILK
.
An
vnskilfull
pilot
that
maketh
shipwracke
ere
he
getts
out
of
the
hauen
.
You
will
prooue
your
faith
out
of
holy
scriptures
,
and
presentlie
you
will
tell
vs
that
your
prooses
are
not
so
direct
and
full
,
but
your
aduersaries
may
delude
them
,
and
that
none
such
must
be
expected
from
you
:
much
like
the
soolishe
or
at
our
who
vsuallie
propoundinge
three
or
fower
points
to
speake
of
,
euer
forgott
one
of
them
,
and
then
charged
his
aduersaries
that
they
had
bewitched
him
.
So
the
weakenes
of
your
arguments
,
is
imputed
to
the
delusion
of
your
opposites
.
CHAMP
.
A
blinde
aduersarie
that
doth
not
see
what
he
hath
to
impugne
.
I
proposed
in
my
Manuall
to
shewe
the
catholicke
doctrine
to
haue
true
grounde
in
the
holy
scriptures
,
and
this
Parallelist
woulde
haue
such
conuinceinge
testimonies
,
as
may
not
be
deluded
by
anie
false
interpretation
:
we
shall
belike
see
that
he
will
play
the
man
egregiouslie
when
it
shall
come
to
his
turne
,
to
prooue
his
owne
doctrine
,
and
will
bringe
such
testimonies
for
himselfe
as
he
requireth
of
me
,
In
the
meane
tyme
lett
vs
heare
the
rest
of
his
learned
discourse
.
PILK
.
But
to
your
bold
and
rusticke
assertion
,
that
noe
articles
of
faith
are
so
fullie
prooued
out
of
the
scripture
;
but
may
be
deluded
by
false
interpretation
,
the
Fathers
shall
answere
,
nothinge
can
delude
them
that
search
the
scripture
.
CHAMP
.
Which
of
the
fathers
say
this
?
why
doe
you
not
name
them
?
you
putt
in
the
margent
Theophilact
and
Chrisostome
,
but
not
as
authors
of
this
your
senceles
assertion
,
that
none
canne
be
deluded
that
search
the
scriptures
.
but
you
geue
a
reason
thereof
out
of
the
fathers
,
let
vs
heare
it
.
PILK
.
For
they
(
the
scriptures
)
are
the
candle
whereby
the
theese
is
espied
.
Chrisostome
saith
that
Manichees
and
all
heretickes
deceiue
the
simple
;
if
we
haue
the
sences
of
our
mindes
exercised
to
discerne
good
and
euill
,
we
may
be
able
to
escape
them
,
But
howe
may
our
sences
become
practised
?
by
the
vse
of
the
scriptures
and
often
readinge
.
CHAMP
.
What
is
all
this
to
prooue
that
anie
testimonie
of
scripture
may
not
be
deluded
by
a
false
interpretation
?
that
is
,
that
a
peeuishe
or
a
peruerse
aduersarie
,
cannot
vnderstande
or
interprete
it
otherwise
then
it
is
meant
.
These
fathers
sayinges
(
be
they
trulie
related
by
you
or
noe
,
which
I
list
not
nowe
examine
)
haue
this
manifest
sence
,
that
a
catholicke
man
,
conuersant
in
scriptures
,
who
vnderstandeth
them
in
the
sence
of
the
churche
,
cannot
be
deceiued
by
heretickes
,
but
espieth
quicklie
their
theeuish
driftes
,
which
is
true
,
but
farr
▪
from
that
which
you
shoulde
prooue
:
to
witt
that
noe
hereticke
can
so
interprete
the
testimonie
of
holy
scripture
,
but
that
he
must
necessarilie
remaine
conuinced
of
his
heresie
by
them
.
PILK
.
S.
August
auoucheth
that
all
articles
of
faith
are
plainlie
sett
downe
in
holy
scriptures
,
and
that
so
euidentlie
that
diuers
of
them
neede
noe
interpretation
att
all
:
as
that
Christ
must
suffer
and
rise
againe
the
third
day
,
and
that
repentance
and
remission
of
sinnes
must
be
preached
in
his
name
in
all
nations
begininge
at
Hierusalem
as
it
needeth
noe
interpreter
;
this
gospell
of
the
kingdome
shall
be
preached
in
all
the
worlde
and
then
shall
be
the
end
as
it
needeth
noe
interpreter
;
yee
shall
be
my
witnesses
in
Hierusalem
and
in
all
Iudea
&
Samaria
and
the
whole
earth
as
it
needeth
noe
interpretour
;
suffer
both
to
growe
vntill
the
haruest
:
and
when
it
needeth
an
interpretour
the
Lorde
himselfe
did
interprete
it
,
whome
no
man
dare
contradict
.
Your
owne
Stapleton
affirmeth
the
Popes
Supremacie
,
which
is
noe
meane
article
of
your
faith
to
be
fullie
and
abundantlie
prooued
out
of
the
scripture
.
CHAMP
.
Conclude
out
of
all
these
wordes
(
be
they
trulie
related
or
otherwise
for
it
importeth
not
to
examine
them
)
that
the
testimonies
of
scripture
for
anie
one
pointe
of
faith
,
may
be
so
conueincinge
that
they
cannott
by
anie
false
interpretation
be
deluded
,
and
you
shall
say
something
to
the
purpose
,
otherwise
all
your
wordes
are
but
idle
and
impertinent
bablinge
not
worthe
the
readinge
.
PILK
.
But
lett
it
be
graunted
that
the
scriptures
may
be
thus
deluded
as
you
woulde
haue
them
,
it
neither
helpeth
you
nor
hurteth
me
.
Sith
whatsoeuer
you
adde
to
bringe
fulnes
vnto
them
,
whether
traditions
or
councells
,
is
equallie
subiect
,
if
not
more
to
delusion
then
the
written
worde
of
God
.
CHAMP
.
I
woulde
you
wist
that
I
disdaine
to
take
anie
thinge
of
guyfte
or
graunt
of
you
;
that
pertayneth
to
the
defence
of
the
catholicke
truth
;
denie
therefore
hardelie
that
which
you
can
without
blushinge
,
and
graunt
me
no
more
then
that
I
extort
from
you
by
force
of
argument
,
and
after
good
deliberation
shape
me
answere
to
these
demandes
followinge
.
First
is
it
not
a
cheefe
article
of
Christian
beleefe
that
the
sonne
of
God
is
of
equall
or
one
substance
and
glorie
with
his
father
?
and
secondlie
is
not
this
article
as
clearlie
and
as
often
sett
downe
in
the
scripture
,
as
anie
other
articles
of
our
beliefe
?
And
thirdlie
did
not
the
Arrians
delude
by
false
interpretation
all
the
proofes
of
the
sayde
article
,
so
that
they
remained
not
conuinced
by
anie
of
them
,
nor
all
of
them
together
?
which
of
all
these
three
propositions
will
you
denie
?
you
will
not
as
I
suppose
finde
anie
probable
ground
to
denie
anie
of
them
.
And
yett
if
you
graunt
them
all
(
as
they
are
all
most
manifestlie
true
)
that
is
clearlie
concluded
which
I
affirme
,
and
you
denie
;
to
witt
that
noe
testimonie
of
holy
scripture
can
be
so
direct
,
and
conuincinge
,
but
that
it
may
be
eluded
by
false
interpretation
.
You
say
be
it
so
,
what
doth
this
either
helpe
me
or
hurte
you
.
But
you
are
verie
shorte
sighted
or
rather
starke
blinde
,
if
you
see
not
this
,
For
it
helpeth
me
in
that
it
deliuereth
me
of
the
charge
or
obligation
to
bringe
such
testimonie
of
holy
scripture
in
proofe
of
the
article
of
our
catholicke
beleefe
,
as
cannot
by
anie
tergiuersation
or
false
interpretation
be
miscontrued
or
misunderstoode
by
you
,
which
you
would
seeme
to
tye
me
vnto
,
it
hurteth
you
,
because
it
euidentlie
sheweth
that
the
sole
scriptures
are
not
sufficient
to
conuince
anie
wilfull
or
obstinate
hereticke
in
anie
article
of
faith
,
as
you
affirme
it
to
be
.
The
reason
that
you
alleage
why
it
shoulde
not
helpe
me
,
nor
hurte
you
,
that
all
criptures
may
be
mis-interpreted
,
is
altogether
misapplyed
,
prooueinge
not
that
for
which
it
is
alleaged
,
but
rather
disprooeuinge
the
proposition
it selfe
.
But
this
is
a
small
ouersight
in
your
discourse
,
you
say
therefore
;
that
whatsoeuer
is
added
to
the
scriptures
to
interprete
them
,
whether
traditions
or
counsells
,
is
equallie
,
if
not
more
subiect
to
delusion
:
whereunto
I
answere
.
First
that
neither
counsells
nor
traditions
,
are
so
subiect
to
misinterpretation
as
the
scriptures
are
;
And
the
reason
is
,
because
they
expresse
more
particularlie
theire
owne
sence
and
meaninge
then
the
scriptures
ordinarilie
doe
,
and
consequentlie
leaue
not
so
much
libertie
of
misinterpretation
as
they
doe
.
Secondlie
I
answere
that
whensoeuer
the
testimonie
of
councells
or
traditions
are
drawne
into
doubte
,
and
difficultie
as
often
they
are
;
(
heretickes
seruinge
themselues
of
them
,
as
they
doe
of
the
scriptures
)
they
are
to
be
vnderstoode
accordinge
to
the
iudgment
of
the
present
churche
,
which
as
a
liuelie
and
liuinge
iudge
and
interpreter
,
hath
power
to
interprete
aswell
the
counsells
and
traditions
when
there
is
doubte
of
them
,
as
it
hath
to
interprete
the
scripture
;
which
beeinge
added
they
are
not
subiect
to
anie
farther
doubte
or
delusion
.
PILK
.
Concerninge
Tradition
,
Eusebius
will
informe
you
,
that
in
the
Cittie
of
Rome
,
the
rule
of
Ecclesiasticall
Tradition
,
was
vexed
with
diuers
nouelties
:
and
as
for
councells
howe
shamefullie
your
Popes
woulde
haue
corrupted
that
of
Nice
,
the
fathers
of
the
first
councell
of
Carthage
,
haue
formerlie
manifested
vnto
the
worlde
,
and
howe
vainlie
at
this
day
,
your
diuines
delude
the
sixt
Canon
of
the
same
councell
,
purposely
made
to
geue
equall
honour
,
vnto
the
Patriarche
,
to
patronize
your
Popes
Monarchie
,
euerie
bleare
eie
doth
easilie
perceiue
.
CHAMP
.
Your
intention
by
inculcatinge
these
ould
and
ouerworne
obiections
,
I
meane
these
of
councells
,
haue
been
answered
an
hundred
tymes
,
being
onlie
to
deturne
your
reader
from
the
subiect
in
hand
,
and
to
drawe
your
aduersarie
into
like
confusion
of
matters
with
you
,
I
will
passe
ouer
those
wordes
of
yours
,
expectinge
your
confutation
of
the
answeres
alreadie
to
these
same
obiections
,
before
I
will
trouble
my selfe
to
answere
them
againe
,
before
the
first
answeres
be
confuted
by
you
.
That
which
Eusebius
saith
of
vexinge
traditions
is
true
;
marry
it
was
by
such
as
your selfe
and
your
fellowe
hetetikes
,
whose
endeuours
were
frustrated
by
the
catholike
pastours
:
see
him
reader
and
marueil
at
Mr.
Pilkintons
witt
in
citing
him
.
PILK
.
Nowe
when
you
cannot
fullie
prooue
your
faith
out
of
scriptures
,
you
fall
presentlie
to
wounde
them
with
your
slaunderous
accusation
,
that
they
are
not
able
to
conuince
heretickes
,
noe
not
such
seelie
ones
as
Legat
,
not
perceuinge
how
euenlie
you
iumpe
with
ould
heretikes
,
who
when
they
are
conuinced
by
the
scriptures
,
fall
to
rayle
on
them
as
thoughe
they
were
not
right
,
nor
sufficientlie
authorized
,
but
various
and
not
full
to
finde
the
truth
by
them
without
tradition
.
CHAMP
.
Why
doe
you
not
I
pray
your
answere
the
instance
made
in
Legat
?
●
knowe
well
the
reason
;
you
can
as
well
answere
it
,
as
you
can
beate
downe
Paules
steeple
with
your
fiste
.
You
call
it
in
this
same
section
,
a
sheepishe
obiection
,
but
that
is
onlie
a
caluishe
solution
.
And
that
heretikes
cannott
be
conuinced
out
of
scripture
onlie
,
hearken
I
pray
you
to
auncient
Tertullian
who
was
better
conuersant
in
these
conflictes
then
either
of
vs
,
yea
then
both
of
vs
putt
together
,
thus
he
writeth
.
The
conflict
with
the
scriptures
profiteth
nothinge
but
to
turne
either
the
stomacke
or
the
braine
.
For
which
he
geueth
this
reason
.
This
herefie
receiueth
not
certaine
scriptures
(
as
the
and
if
it
receiue
anie
,
it
araweth
them
to
her
purpose
by
additions
and
detractions
.
And
if
it
receiue
the
whole
scriptures
,
it
depraueth
them
by
diuers
expositions
.
Whereas
the
adulterous
sence
,
doth
no
lesse
destroy
the
truth
then
doth
the
corrupted
letter
.
What
wilt
thou
gaine
then
that
arte
cunninge
in
scriptures
,
when
that
which
thou
defendest
is
denyed
,
and
that
which
thou
denyest
is
defended
?
Thou
shalt
indeede
loose
nothinge
but
thy
voyce
with
contendinge
,
nor
shalt
thou
gayne
anie
thinge
but
choler
,
hearinge
blasphemies
.
The
heretikes
will
say
that
we
adulterate
the
scripture
and
bringe
lyinge
expositions
,
and
that
they
defende
the
truth
;
Therefore
must
not
appeale
be
made
to
the
scriptures
,
nor
must
the
conflict
be
in
them
,
by
which
the
victorie
is
either
vncertayne
,
or
little
certaine
,
or
none
att
all
.
But
lett
vs
nowe
goe
forwarde
.
PILK
.
But
lett
this
be
the
first
issue
betwixt
you
and
me
,
whether
scriptures
onlie
will
fullie
conuince
heretikes
,
wherein
the
negatiue
,
is
yours
,
the
affirmatiue
mine
,
and
thus
I
double
it
out
of
the
worde
of
God
.
That
which
doth
perfect
the
man
of
God
to
euerie
good
worke
,
enableth
him
fullie
to
conuince
heretikes
:
for
this
is
one
mayne
dutie
of
his
callinge
,
to
conuince
contradictours
.
But
the
scriptures
doe
perfect
the
man
of
God
to
euerie
good
worke
,
and
particularlie
S.
Paule
expresseth
conuiction
,
therefore
they
teach
him
fullie
to
conuince
heretickes
.
CHAMP
.
I
verie
willinglie
accept
of
your
chalenge
and
am
content
to
ioyne
issue
with
you
in
this
point
,
desiringe
no
other
iudge
or
vmpire
of
the
victorie
then
your
owne
patron
of
Canterburie
.
To
your
double
therefore
out
of
the
worde
of
God
,
I
answere
,
that
the
minor
or
seconde
proposition
of
your
argument
is
not
out
of
scripture
,
nor
in
it selfe
true
.
For
the
place
of
scripture
which
you
ayme
at
is
this
.
All
scripture
inspired
by
God
i●
profitable
to
teache
,
to
argue
,
to
correct
,
to
instruct
,
in
iustice
,
that
the
man
of
God
may
be
perfect
,
instructed
to
euerie
good
worke
.
Out
of
which
place
if
you
woulde
conclude
anie
thinge
by
lawfull
argument
,
you
shoulde
argue
thus
.
That
which
is
profitable
to
teach
,
to
argue
,
to
correct
and
instruct
in
iustice
,
that
the
man
of
God
may
be
perfect
,
instructed
in
euerie
good
worke
,
is
sufficient
so
fullie
to
conuince
heretikes
of
theire
errour
,
that
they
cannot
delude
it
by
false
interpretation
.
But
all
scripture
inspired
by
God
is
such
;
therefore
all
scripture
inspired
by
God
is
sufficient
so
fullie
to
conuince
heretikes
,
that
they
cannot
delude
it
by
false
interpretation
.
The
conclusion
of
which
argument
is
the
issue
betwixt
you
and
me
.
The
medium
you
vse
to
prooue
it
are
the
wordes
of
the
Apostle
,
which
if
you
had
putt
downe
simplie
and
whollie
and
not
dubled
(
as
you
say
)
by
curtayllinge
them
,
you
would
easilie
haue
seene
(
if
you
see
anie
thinge
)
that
they
are
as
farr
from
concludinge
your
affirmatiue
,
as
the
argument
followinge
is
from
concludinge
that
which
is
put
in
the
conclusion
thereof
.
Marke
it
I
pray
you
,
and
learne
to
argue
better
;
especiallie
when
you
dispute
for
the
victorie
in
a
matter
of
such
moment
as
this
is
.
That
which
is
proffitable
to
nourishe
,
to
exhilarate
,
and
conforte
or
strengthen
man
,
that
he
may
be
able
to
exercise
all
man-like
functions
and
actions
,
is
sufficient
to
defende
him
from
his
enemies
,
and
to
vanquishe
them
.
Butt
al
wines
are
such
.
Therfore
al
wines
are
sufficient
to
defende
a
man
from
his
enimies
;
&
to
vanquishe
them
.
By
which
argument
,
which
is
the
verie
same
in
forme
that
yours
shoulde
be
,
if
you
would
haue
formed
it
out
of
the
Apostles
wordes
,
you
see
(
if
you
onlie
are
not
blinde
)
how
ridiculouslie
you
double
your
affirmatiue
out
of
gods
worde
.
Besides
your
argument
is
for
diuers
other
respects
either
foolishe
,
or
fraudubent
.
For
S.
Paule
saith
that
all
scripture
,
that
is
euerie
parte
&
parcell
of
scripture
is
profitable
to
teache
&c:
yet
you
will
not
I
hope
say
that
euerie
parcell
of
scripture
is
sufficient
to
conuince
heretikes
.
Agayne
the
Apostle
speaketh
manifestlie
of
such
scriptures
as
Timothy
had
learned
from
his
childehoode
,
which
without
controuersie
were
onlie
the
scriptures
of
the
old
testament
,
of
which
you
will
not
affirme
that
they
are
sufficient
to
conuince
all
heretikes
.
And
so
you
see
the
liuinge
wherewith
you
woulde
double
your
affirmatiue
to
be
so
poore
stuffe
,
that
were
your
cloake
doubled
with
no
better
lyninge
,
you
would
feele
the
winter
could
,
noe
lesse
then
if
your
cloake
were
simple
:
but
lett
vs
see
,
peraduenture
you
haue
better
stuffe
behynde
.
PILK
.
That
way
which
Christ
and
his
Apostles
tooke
to
conuince
heretikes
is
a
full
and
direct
way
:
but
they
conuinced
them
by
scripture
only
.
The
Saduces
that
were
heretikes
amongst
the
Iewes
,
denyinge
the
resurrection
,
werethus
by
Christ
putt
to
silence
,
so
were
the
false
Apostles
that
vrged
Circumsion
,
by
the
councell
at
Hierusalem
,
and
thus
Apollo
confuted
the
Iewes
,
sheweinge
by
the
scriptures
that
Iesus
was
Christe
.
CHAMP
.
These
examples
of
Christe
and
the
Apostles
doe
clearlie
conuince
your
affirmatiue
,
wherein
is
our
issue
,
to
be
false
.
For
otherwise
all
these
that
hearde
them
should
haue
been
conuerted
from
theire
errours
,
which
they
were
not
.
And
assuredlie
if
you
take
those
places
of
scripture
vsed
by
our
Sauiour
Christe
and
the
Apostles
to
be
of
themselues
conuincinge
,
abstractinge
from
the
authoritie
of
those
that
vsed
them
,
you
will
conuince
your selfe
to
be
a
madde
man
and
not
a
doctor
of
diuinitie
.
The
way
therfore
that
our
Sauiour
Christe
and
the
Apostles
then
vsed
,
and
which
all
the
Doctors
of
gods
churche
haue
euer
since
exercised
to
conuince
heretikes
by
scripture
,
is
doubtles
most
conuenient
,
and
good
,
which
is
not
in
controuersie
betweene
you
and
me
:
but
onlie
whether
it
be
such
as
by
noe
false
interpretation
it
may
be
auoyded
,
deluded
or
frustrated
of
the
effect
,
which
these
verie
examples
brought
by
you
,
and
the
experience
of
all
times
doe
demonstrate
to
be
true
against
you
.
And
this
might
fullie
suffice
for
that
which
you
add
,
but
least
you
may
complaine
of
your
wordes
concealed
I
will
sett
them
downe
.
PILK
.
Lastlie
the
fathers
thus
taught
that
heretickes
might
be
conuinced
solelie
by
the
scriptures
,
CHAMP
.
Howe
impertinent
alwayes
you
are
?
you
shoulde
prooue
that
heretikes
may
be
conuinced
by
scriptures
onlie
;
and
you
bringe
Tertullian
to
prooue
that
heretikes
cannot
prooue
theire
errouis
out
of
scriptures
;
speakinge
of
one
particular
heresie
against
the
resurrectio
,
which
article
of
the
resurrection
being
not
to
be
prooued
by
naturall
discourse
,
but
out
of
scripture
onlie
,
therefore
those
heretickes
that
neglect
to
reade
them
were
in
daunger
to
continue
in
theire
errour
.
But
if
you
make
anie
esteeme
of
Tertullian
his
iudgment
in
this
matter
,
see
his
wordes
cited
a
litle
before
,
and
iudge
your selfe
whether
he
fauour
your
affirmatiue
or
my
negatiue
more
.
PILK
.
Athanasins
writinge
to
Serapion
against
th●se
CHAMP
.
Manie
wordes
&
nothinge
to
the
purpose
Which
of
all
these
testimonies
(
be
they
trulie
related
by
you
,
which
I
list
not
examine
,
because
they
are
nothinge
to
the
purpose
)
or
of
those
infinite
others
(
which
you
more
prudentlie
omitte
,
then
you
haue
related
these
)
say
that
the
heretikes
may
be
so
conuinced
by
onlie
scripture
,
that
they
cannot
delude
them
by
anie
false
interpretation
,
which
is
our
issue
as
you
knowe
?
The
charge
of
Constantine
(
as
you
ridiculouslie
terme
it
)
doth
sufficientlie
euict
my
cause
against
you
,
so
wiselie
you
pleade
for
your selfe
,
and
so
solidelie
you
satisfie
the
obiection
of
seelie
Legat
(
which
you
esteeminge
sheepishe
,
shewe
your selfe
to
be
more
then
a
sheepe
in
not
soluinge
it
for
which
of
all
the
testimonies
out
of
the
bookes
of
the
Euangelists
,
and
Apostles
,
or
the
oracles
of
the
auncient
prophets
,
did
so
conuince
the
Arriaus
,
that
they
had
not
some
answere
for
it
?
not
one
surelie
.
Therefore
all
these
wordes
of
yours
containe
nothinge
but
an
argument
of
your
wilfull
obstinacie
against
an
euident
truth
.
And
therefore
to
conclude
my
defence
in
this
issue
,
I
will
aske
you
whether
you
are
conuinced
of
the
real
persence
by
these
wordes
;
hoc
est
corpus
meum
:
or
of
quorum
remiseritis
●e●cata
remittuntur
e●s
,
or
of
the
infallibilitie
of
the
churche
by
these
;
quae
est
co●umna
&
firmamentum
MANVALL
SECTIO
3.
Secondlie
that
thoughe
the
protestants
may
alleage
texts
of
holy
scripture
for
the
proofe
of
some
poinctes
of
theire
doctrine
,
yett
that
alone
is
not
sufficient
to
make
it
true
;
both
because
the
same
poinctes
are
prooued
false
by
other
places
of
scripture
,
and
also
for
that
all
heretickes
haue
euer
brought
scripture
for
theire
heresie
;
and
none
more
apparant
or
frequent
then
the
damned
and
blasphemous
Arians
.
To
say
nothinge
of
the
diuell
his
citinge
of
scripture
euen
against
our
blessed
Sauiour
;
by
al
which
it
is
more
then
euident
,
that
the
sence
of
holy
scripture
,
besides
the
wordes
is
necessarilie
required
to
make
sufficient
proofe
of
true
doctrine
:
For
which
reason
I
often
bringe
the
incorrupte
testimonie
of
some
holy
father
for
the
sence
of
the
place
alleaged
by
me
,
who
haueinge
liued
att
least
a
thousande
yeares
before
these
controuersies
began
,
cannott
be
esteemed
partiall
one
our
side
.
PILK
.
We
adore
the
fulnes
of
scripture
and
prooue
from
thence
not
some
,
but
euerie
pointe
of
our
doctrine
(
which
you
Iesuits
neither
canne
doe
,
nor
professe
to
doe
,
but
the
contrarie
,
charginge
them
with
insufficiencie
and
imperfection
)
which
howe
manfullie
you
can
desprooue
by
other
texts
will
appeare
in
the
discourse
ensuinge
.
CHAMP
.
As
you
are
more
redoun●
in
wordes
in
this
section
then
in
the
precedent
.
so
are
you
more
impertinent
.
Your
flant
out
of
Tertullian
shall
be
answered
in
the
PILK
.
In
the
meane
while
it
is
vntrue
that
all
heretikes
alleaged
scriptures
,
which
they
loue
as
wel
as
dogges
doe
whippes
:
but
iust
as
you
papists
say
there
is
more
force
in
tradition
then
in
the
written
worde
,
for
they
are
owles
that
cannot
abide
the
light
of
the
scripture
,
they
massacre
them
as
Martian
did
,
that
they
may
builde
vppe
theire
owne
matters
,
they
alleage
Apostolicall
traditions
as
Artemon
did
,
who
saide
that
all
the
auncients
,
yea
the
Apostells
taught
and
saide
like
himselfe
,
and
laide
handes
on
the
scriptures
irreligiouslie
,
sayinge
that
he
had
reformed
them
.
CHAMP
.
You
affirme
bouldlie
but
prooue
nothinge
,
a
fowle
faulte
in
a
doctour
.
That
all
heretikes
vniuersallie
alleage
scriptures
,
which
you
say
is
moste
vntrue
,
heare
the
testimonie
of
one
that
is
not
partiall
to
either
of
vs
,
and
of
more
iudgment
in
this
matter
then
vs
both
.
I
meane
Vincentius
Lirinensis
of
equall
standinge
with
S.
Aug.
who
writeth
thus
.
Some
will
peraduenture
demande
here
whether
heretikes
doe
vse
the
testimonies
of
scripture
?
They
do●
trulie
and
that
vehementlie
For
you
shall
see
them
runne
thorough
all
the
bookes
of
holy
scripture
:
throughe
the
bookes
of
Moses
of
the
kinges
,
of
the
psalmes
,
of
the
Apostles
,
Euangelists
,
and
prophets
.
For
whether
they
speake
with
theire
owne
fellowes
or
with
other
,
whether
priuatelie
or
publikelie
,
whether
in
Sermons
or
in
bookes
,
whether
in
banquetts
or
in
the
streetes
,
they
neuer
vtter
anie
thinge
of
theire
owne
,
but
they
will
seeme
to
shaddowe
it
with
the
wordes
of
scripture
.
Reade
the
workes
of
Paulus
Samosateuus
,
of
Priscilian
,
of
Eunomius
.
(
of
Luther
,
Caluin
,
Zuinglius
)
and
of
the
rest
of
the
plagues
,
thou
shalt
finde
almost
an
infinite
heape
of
examples
,
noe
page
that
is
not
painted
with
the
passages
'
of
the
newe
testament
.
Nowe
iudge
your selfe
,
whether
your
sayinge
or
myne
is
the
more
vntrue
.
Yea
which
is
more
,
doe
not
(
I
pray
you
)
the
phantasticall
Swinkefildians
a
younger
broode
of
your
grande
father
Luther
,
alleage
scripture
for
theire
reiectinge
of
all
scripture
,
and
adheringe
to
theire
dreames
and
reuelations
?
yea
and
such
scriptures
as
if
you
had
the
like
for
anie
pointe
of
your
misbeleefe
,
you
would
thinke
it
fullie
prooued
by
them
.
You
say
that
heretikes
hate
scriptures
as
dogges
doe
whippes
;
which
is
true
when
they
are
vnderstoode
in
the
sence
of
the
churche
,
and
not
accordinge
to
theire
owne
interpretation
,
and
after
the
same
manner
doe
you
loue
them
,
and
not
otherwise
.
They
affirme
,
say
you
,
as
papists
do●
,
more
force
to
be
in
traditions
then
in
scriptures
.
What
papist
can
you
name
that
euer
affirmed
this
?
name
one
at
least
or
say
you
belie
them
?
and
doe
not
inuert
the
question
,
but
compare
the
receiued
scripture
,
with
an
approoued
tradition
,
for
so
are
they
to
be
compared
to
finde
out
whether
of
them
hath
the
greater
force
:
where
I
woulde
haue
you
further
to
note
,
that
the
heretikes
theire
alleaginge
of
traditions
,
doth
prooue
the
authoritie
of
traditions
euen
with
catholikes
.
For
no
man
of
common
sence
will
alleage
an
authoritie
which
he
knoweth
to
be
not
receiued
of
his
aduersarie
,
or
could
proue
that
it
ought
to
be
receiued
.
You
say
.
Mar●ion
did
massacre
the
scriptures
.
But
did
he
massacre
the
them
more
then
your
Maysters
Luther
and
Caluin
doe
,
who
cutt
out
of
them
manie
whole
bookes
;
besides
manie
notable
parcels
of
those
bookes
which
they
seeme
to
receiue
?
Artemon
,
you
say
,
affirmed
that
all
the
auncients
yea
,
the
Apostles
taught
as
he
did
and
yett
layde
irreligious
handes
vppon
the
scriptures
sayinge
he
had
reformed
them
.
And
doe
not
(
I
pray
you
)
your
masters
,
say
,
and
doe
the
verie
same
?
where
,
for
the
loue
of
God
were
your
witts
when
you
wrote
these
thinges
,
that
you
sawe
not
all
these
sayinges
of
yours
to
be
bloudie
stripes
to
your selfe
?
lett
vs
see
the
rest
.
PILK
.
Yea
Arrius
himselfe
began
thus
his
booke
Thalia
.
After
this
manner
haue
I
learned
of
the
elect
of
God
accordinge
to
faith
,
the
knowers
of
him
and
the
right
walkers
after
him
.
And
of
his
followers
whom
you
esteeme
to
haue
stoode
so
much
vppon
the
scriptures
,
Athanasius
reportes
,
that
when
they
coulde
not
preuaile
by
them
,
they
fledd
to
the
Fathers
,
as
theeues
vsuallie
pretende
honest
and
modest
men
to
be
theire
companions
,
like
the
wicked
Iewes
which
claimed
Abraham
for
theire
Father
,
when
they
were
conuicted
by
the
scriptures
.
Against
all
which
as
against
your
traditions
,
we
oppose
that
worthie
sayinge
of
Hierome
.
All
thinges
that
they
pretende
without
authoritie
and
testimonie
of
scriptures
,
the
worde
of
God
thrust
through
.
CHAMP
.
You
goe
still
forewarde
in
your
impertinences
,
hauinge
either
forgotten
what
you
shoulde
prooue
,
or
wittinglie
wandringe
vpp
and
downe
to
dazell
the
eies
of
your
lesse
skilfull
reader
,
and
to
wearie
your
aduersarie
with
followinge
your
idle
stepps
.
What
I
pray
you
doth
all
this
you
haue
sayde
,
make
to
prooue
that
heretickes
alleage
not
scriptures
,
for
theire
errours
which
is
that
you
vndertooke
to
prooue
?
nothinge
att
all
.
If
you
woulde
prooue
that
Arrius
and
his
sectaries
alleaged
not
scriptures
for
theire
heresie
because
in
the
first
line
of
his
booke
Thalia
(
which
seemeth
to
haue
much
semblance
with
the
stile
of
your
elected
brotherhoode
)
he
alleageth
none
,
you
are
too
seelie
a
disputer
to
beare
the
name
of
a
doctour
.
But
S.
Athanasius
saith
,
they
fledd
to
the
fathers
seinge
they
coulde
not
preuaile
by
the
scriptures
Be
it
that
S.
Athan
:
saith
soe
,
it
is
euident
thereby
that
they
alleaged
scriptures
contrarie
to
your
assertion
.
S.
Hieron
whom
you
drawe
in
by
the
eares
saith
as
little
to
your
purpose
,
putt
case
you
cite
him
truelie
which
I
will
not
stande
to
examine
.
For
he
saith
no
such
thinge
as
that
heretikes
alleage
not
scriptures
;
which
you
shoulde
prooue
;
but
because
you
imagine
his
sayinge
to
make
against
traditions
,
which
if
you
had
but
one
sparke
of
iudgment
you
would
see
howe
vnseasonablie
you
impugne
here
)
I
will
answere
it
by
puttinge
you
in
minde
that
catholickes
pretend
not
traditions
without
the
testimonie
of
scriptures
,
butt
accordinge
to
the
expresse
testimonie
thereof
,
which
you
knowe
and
therefore
is
your
impertinencie
in
alleaginge
S.
Hierome
his
wordes
lesse
excusable
.
PILK
.
What
then
?
thoughe
Satan
the
Father
,
and
heretikes
his
sonnes
abuse
the
letter
of
the
scripture
,
as
you
papists
nowe
doe
,
yett
with
noe
other
weapon
did
Christ
conquer
him
and
them
,
to
teach
vs
that
they
onlie
are
the
sworde
of
the
spirit
,
wherewith
the
deuill
and
all
his
adherents
must
be
putt
to
flight
;
but
this
you
say
is
the
sence
and
not
the
wordes
onlie
.
CHAMP
.
Whether
you
or
we
abuse
the
scriptures
as
Satan
did
,
is
in
controuersie
betweene
vs
,
and
must
necessarilie
light
vppon
one
side
.
In
the
meane
tyme
whilst
it
appeare
whether
you
or
we
be
the
scholers
of
Satan
,
hence
it
is
clearlie
manifest
that
it
is
not
enoughe
for
the
proofe
of
anie
doctrine
to
cite
scripture
for
it
,
which
is
my
position
,
against
which
you
haue
hitherto
wilfullie
wrangled
.
And
if
you
will
stande
to
that
ignoraunt
paradox
of
yours
,
that
with
no
other
weapon
then
the
scriptures
our
Sauiour
conquered
the
deuill
and
his
children
,
and
that
to
teach
vs
,
that
they
onlie
are
the
sworde
of
the
spiritt
,
where
with
they
are
to
be
putt
to
flight
;
blott
out
of
your
Bibles
the
whole
newe
testament
as
you
haue
donne
manie
bookes
of
the
ould
;
for
no
worde
of
the
newe
testament
was
written
diuers
yeeres
after
our
Sauiours
Ascention
into
heauen
,
and
triumphe
ouer
the
deuill
and
hel
.
Woulde
you
haue
me
conclud
this
in
forme
of
argument
against
you
?
Here
take
it
.
That
scripture
onlie
is
the
sworde
of
the
spirit
which
our
Sauiour
vsed
.
But
he
vsed
noe
other
scripture
then
the
oulde
testament
,
ergo
the
ould
testament
onlie
is
the
sworde
of
the
spirit
.
The
maior
is
your
owne
,
the
minor
is
euident
,
the
conclusion
followeth
directlie
vpon
the
premisses
.
Whence
clearlie
followeth
this
consequence
.
Therefore
the
newe
testament
is
not
necessarie
.
So
that
you
see
howe
well
you
argue
for
the
authoritie
and
dignitie
of
holy
scripture
.
But
qui
ambulat
in
tenebris
nescit
quo
vaait
.
PILK
.
Madd
Orestes
would
sweare
he
were
out
of
CHAMP
.
I
willinglie
ioyne
with
you
in
this
issue
also
;
that
the
sence
of
the
scripture
is
the
garlande
you
ought
to
striue
for
.
And
if
you
dare
,
the
Fathers
shall
be
the
iudge
of
our
plea
;
but
you
dare
as
well
eat
hoat
coales
,
as
stande
to
theire
verdict
.
PILK
.
When
we
prooue
out
of
Tertullian
that
liued
200.
yeeres
after
Christ
,
that
Pope
Zepherinus
fauored
the
heresie
of
Montanus
,
contrarie
to
your
newe
Roman
Sence
,
that
Popes
cannot
erre
,
we
must
not
at
all
beleeue
Tertullian
in
this
point
saith
Bellarmine
.
For
he
was
a
Montanist
,
yea
an
euill
spiritt
so
carried
him
,
that
of
euill
being
made
worse
,
and
worse
,
and
most
filthie
,
he
spued
out
most
horrible
blasphemies
saith
Barronius
.
CHAMP
.
What
is
this
to
the
purpose
of
tryinge
the
true
sence
of
the
scriptures
!
haue
you
so
quicklie
forgotten
the
thinge
in
question
?
But
to
followe
you
in
your
extrauagances
,
least
you
should
thinke
your
obiection
not
to
be
answered
.
Tell
me
I
pray
you
in
the
small
honestie
of
a
minister
,
whether
you
geue
more
creditt
to
Tertullian
nowe
a
confessed
heretike
,
in
a
matter
aduantageous
to
his
errour
,
then
to
all
antiquitie
,
testifyinge
Zepherin
Pope
to
haue
been
an
holy
Sainte
and
Martyr
?
Are
you
so
maliuouslie
bent
against
the
Pope
and
sea
of
Rome
,
that
to
fix
some
fault
vppon
them
you
will
put
Saincts
out
of
heauen
,
make
martyrs
heretikes
,
and
that
for
the
bare
testimonie
of
a
professed
heretike
?
lett
the
iudicious
reader
iudge
what
spiritt
you
are
guided
by
.
PILK
.
When
we
vrge
S.
Aug.
to
prooue
that
in
the
state
of
corruption
there
is
no
free
will
in
man
to
that
which
is
good
,
contrarie
to
your
sence
,
Stapleton
saith
he
went
beyond
all
good
measure
in
his
dispute
against
Pelagius
,
with
like
vsage
doe
they
entertaine
the
rest
when
they
crosse
theire
grosse
errours
.
CHAMP
.
This
obiection
is
as
impertinent
as
the
precedent
.
For
be
it
that
the
Fathers
haue
some
harde
speeches
which
heretikes
abuse
to
theire
owne
hurte
,
what
maruell
?
sith
the
holy
ghost
testifieth
the
like
of
the
PILK
.
For
howesoeuer
your
councell
of
Trent
make
a
semblance
to
decree
that
the
scriptures
must
be
interpreted
accordinge
to
the
sence
which
the
churche
holdeth
,
or
the
vnanimous
consent
of
the
fathers
approoueth
,
yett
it
is
plaine
,
that
as
when
Caesar
and
Bibulus
were
consulls
together
,
whatsoeuer
was
decreed
and
donne
,
was
ascribed
to
Caesar
,
Bibulus
was
a
Cypher
.
So
whatsoeuer
interpretation
the
Roman
churche
,
that
is
the
Pope
geueth
,
that
must
be
intertayued
,
the
fathers
sett
behinde
the
dore
.
This
your
Cardinall
that
was
present
at
the
counsell
vnder
Pius
the
fowerth
telleth
vs
.
Whatsoeuer
the
churche
teacheth
vs
is
the
expresse
worde
of
God
,
whatsoeuer
is
taught
contrarie
to
the
sence
and
sentence
of
the
churche
,
is
the
expresse
worde
of
the
diuell
.
CHAMP
.
I
maruell
whither
you
will
wander
at
lenght
▪
what
is
all
this
to
the
tryinge
whether
you
or
we
haue
the
true
sence
of
the
scriptures
?
The
councell
of
Trent
decreeth
expreslie
that
which
you
seeme
to
approoue
,
and
yett
you
are
not
content
with
it
,
your
example
of
Caesar
and
Bibulus
in
a
grammer
scholler
had
been
tollerable
,
but
in
a
D.
of
diuinitie
it
is
too
ridiculous
.
And
if
you
dislike
the
doctrine
which
you
ascribe
to
Cardinal
Hosius
,
why
doe
you
onlie
mumble
and
grumble
att
it
,
with
in
your
teeth
,
without
disproouinge
it
either
by
scriptures
or
fathers
?
But
your
malice
will
not
permitt
you
to
imbrace
the
truth
,
nor
your
courage
or
strenght
,
serue
you
to
impugne
it
.
PILK
.
And
another
more
auncient
then
he
.
It
is
no
maruelle
if
the
practise
of
the
churche
at
one
tyme
interprett
the
scriptures
after
this
manner
,
and
another
after
that
:
for
the
vnderstandinge
runneth
with
the
practice
;
for
that
sence
which
is
concurrent
with
the
practice
is
the
quickinge
spiritt
,
therefore
the
scriptures
followe
church
,
not
conuertiblie
.
If
then
the
sentence
of
the
Fathers
runne
not
with
the
moderne
Roman
church
,
they
are
not
the
messengers
of
God
,
but
in
this
manes
opinion
instruments
of
the
diuell
.
CHAMP
.
You
still
wander
out
of
the
way
,
and
stray
from
your
purpose
.
But
I
will
yett
folowe
you
thoughe
not
without
some
patience
.
Cusanus
speaketh
expresslie
of
the
vse
or
sece
of
scriptures
so
farr
as
they
pertaine
to
the
rite
,
order
or
manner
of
administring
the
Sacraments
,
and
namelie
of
Communion
vnder
one
or
both
kindes
;
which
rites
or
Ceremonies
because
they
may
be
diuerse
and
changeable
without
anie
preiudice
either
to
the
nature
of
the
Sacraments
or
to
the
veritie
of
holy
scripture
(
as
indeede
they
are
at
this
day
different
in
the
Greeke
and
Latin
church
,
the
one
consecratinge
the
holy
Eucharist
in
leauened
bredd
,
the
other
in
vnleauened
,
and
yett
neither
of
them
contrarie
to
the
scriptures
)
they
may
be
altered
and
changed
accordinge
as
the
wisdome
of
gods
churche
seeth
iust
occasion
,
and
yett
accordinge
to
the
sence
and
meaning
of
the
holy
scriptures
,
which
to
the
churche
is
neuer
vnknowne
,
and
this
is
Cusanus
his
plaine
doctrine
,
which
you
could
not
haue
been
ignorant
of
,
if
you
had
read
him
yourselfe
.
But
it
is
your
good
nature
,
to
make
alwaies
the
worst
sence
of
your
authors
to
deceaue
your
reader
thereby
.
For
he
speaketh
not
of
scriptures
so
farr
as
they
containe
articles
of
faith
,
which
euer
are
the
same
,
but
as
they
appertaine
to
matters
of
practice
,
which
may
be
different
accordinge
to
the
diuersitie
of
circumstances
occurringe
.
In
settinge
downe
his
wordes
,
you
vse
your
accustomed
arte
and
fraude
.
For
his
wordes
where
vppon
you
would
make
your
cheefe
aduantage
are
these
.
Therefore
the
scriptures
followe
the
church
which
was
before
them
and
for
which
the
scriptures
are
,
not
contrarie
:
That
is
,
the
churche
is
not
for
the
scriptures
.
Whereas
you
leauing
out
some
parte
of
his
speache
,
make
his
wordes
to
sound
that
the
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
scriptures
,
followe
the
vnderstandinge
of
the
churche
,
and
not
the
vnderstandinge
of
the
churche
the
sence
of
scriptures
,
but
might
be
contrarie
vnto
it
:
which
neither
he
nor
anie
other
catholick
man
euer
dreamed
of
.
PILK
.
And
in
verie
deed
thoughe
the
Pope
hath
deuised
a
solemne
oath
whereunto
your
prosessours
are
sworne
,
that
they
shall
admitte
of
the
holy
scriptures
,
accordinge
to
that
sence
which
the
holy
mother
the
churche
holdeth
,
and
they
shall
not
at
anie
tyme
take
or
interprett
them
,
but
accordinge
to
the
vnanimous
consent
of
the
fathers
,
yett
it
is
manifest
that
they
doe
not
onlie
leaue
the
sence
,
which
the
fathers
followe
,
but
followe
that
which
noe
father
within
.
500.
yeres
after
Christ
did
euer
dreame
of
.
CHAMP
.
Seinge
the
councell
of
Trent
hath
decreed
as
you
say
,
and
the
Pope
hath
appointed
an
othe
to
binde
men
to
followe
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
,
deliuered
by
the
church
and
consent
of
the
fathers
,
you
haue
small
reason
to
say
it
is
manifest
that
catholikes
doe
leaue
that
sence
,
without
some
manifest
proofe
of
your
assertion
,
which
I
will
expect
and
exact
of
you
vnder
paine
to
esteeme
you
a
rashe
and
slaunderous
impostour
.
In
the
meane
tyme
whilst
you
performe
this
taske
,
you
may
for
your
erudition
vnderstand
;
that
it
is
one
thinge
to
giue
an
interpretation
of
a
place
of
scripture
,
which
the
fathers
haue
not
geuen
before
,
and
another
to
interprete
it
contrarie
to
the
vniforme
Consent
of
fathers
.
The
churche
of
god
beinge
no
lesse
assisted
nowe
by
the
holie
ghost
which
teacheth
her
all
truth
accordinge
to
the
infalible
promise
of
our
auiour
Christe
,
then
was
the
churche
within
the
first
500.
yeeres
,
shee
is
no
lesse
able
to
interprete
the
scripture
accordinge
to
the
true
meaninge
thereof
,
then
shee
was
then
:
yet
shee
neuer
ga●e-saith
the
interpretation
of
the
auncient
churche
,
or
of
the
vniforme
consent
of
the
holy
fathers
▪
but
lett
vs
heare
howe
you
prooue
your
sayinge
.
PILK
.
Your
late
diuines
interpretinge
that
place
:
there
shall
be
one
flocke
and
one
Shephearde
,
forsake
the
fathers
which
vnderstande
it
of
Christ
,
and
cleaue
to
the
sence
of
theire
mother
,
who
will
haue
it
to
be
the
Pope
.
CHAMP
.
Are
you
a
master
in
Cambridge
and
knowe
not
that
these
two
sences
may
be
both
true
without
anie
contrarietie
?
neither
moderne
nor
auntient
diuines
euer
vnderstood
this
place
otherwise
then
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
principallie
and
for
himselfe
,
or
per
excell●ntiam
.
But
that
it
is
not
trulie
vnderstood
of
him
to
whome
he
commended
his
flock
which
he
redeemed
as
S.
Chri●ostome
saith
)
who
therefore
is
his
vicar
and
vicegerent
here
in
earth
,
and
also
of
his
lauful
successour
in
the
same
charge
,
secondarilie
and
by
participation
,
none
but
contentious
heretikes
,
who
will
see
nothinge
in
the
scriptures
contrarie
to
theire
errour
,
doe
,
will
,
or
canne
denie
.
PILK
.
Doe
this
in
remembrance
of
me
,
that
is
sacrifice
;
this
is
nowe
the
sence
of
the
Roman
churche
,
shewe
one
father
that
tooke
it
soe
,
and
you
shall
weare
the
garland
.
CHAMP
.
Stand
to
your
worde
,
and
the
garlande
will
be
mine
by
anie
indifferent
mans
iudgment
.
Heare
S.
Ireneus
who
liued
aboue
.
1400.
yeres
agoe
;
●um
,
qui
This
is
m●
boddy
:
and
likewise
the
chalice
,
which
is
of
the
creature
which
is
with
vs
,
hee
confessed
it
to
be
his
bloode
,
and
taught
a
newe
oblation
'
of
the
newe
lawe
,
which
the
Church
receauinge
from
the
Apostles
doth
offer
it
to
God
,
thorough
the
whole
worlde
:
These
are
his
wordes
:
you
will
peraduenture
say
that
here
is
no
mention
of
these
wordes
(
doe
this
)
the
exposition
whereof
is
nowe
in
question
,
.
It
is
true
that
here
is
no
expresse
mention
of
them
.
But
S.
Ireneus
epreslie
sayinge
that
our
Sauiour
Christ
when
he
sayde
hoc
est
corpus
meum
,
taught
a
newe
oblation
of
the
newe
Testament
,
declareth
plainlie
in
what
wordes
he
taught
this
oblation
.
For
it
beinge
clear
in
S.
Ireneus
his
doctrine
,
that
our
Sauiour
Chr.
sacrificed
his
bodie
and
bloud
at
that
tyme
,
it
cannot
be
called
into
doubt
,
but
he
gaue
to
his
Apostles
by
these
wordes
doe
this
,
power
and
authoritie
to
doe
the
same
.
PILK
.
What
father
euer
conceiued
,
drinke
ye
all
of
this
,
to
be
vnderstoode
onlie
of
priests
,
and
not
of
the
people
also
,
which
nowe
is
the
sence
of
your
holy
mother
▪
CHAMP
.
No
man
saith
these
wordes
;
drinke
●ee
all
of
this
,
so
to
haue
been
spoken
to
the
Apostells
and
consequentlie
to
priests
,
that
the
laytie
is
by
diuine
precept
excluded
;
but
that
they
may
if
the
churche
(
which
all
that
will
not
be
as
publicans
and
heathens
are
bound
to
heare
)
thinke
good
,
also
drinke
thereof
,
as
they
haue
donne
in
some
tymes
and
some
places
.
But
that
these
wordes
are
so
spoken
to
the
laytie
,
that
they
are
commaunded
to
drinke
of
the
Chalice
,
you
cannot
I
thinke
shewe
anie
one
father
that
affirmeth
it
,
much
lesse
the
vniforme
consent
of
the
fathers
.
And
therefore
your
obiection
is
altogether
impertinent
to
prooue
,
that
we
leaue
the
interpretation
of
the
fathers
.
PILK
.
Againe
psalme
the.
S.
God
putt
all
thinges
vnder
his
seete
,
that
is
of
the
Pope
,
beastes
of
the
field
,
that
is
men
liuinge
vppon
the
earth
:
fishes
of
the
sea
,
that
is
soules
in
purgatorie
:
fowles
of
heauen
,
that
is
soules
of
the
blessed
,
which
by
Canonization
the
Pope
may
propose
to
be
adored
:
name
anie
father
if
you
can
,
that
so
dalyed
and
played
with
godes
sacred
worde
.
CHAMP
.
Name
you
anie
one
chatholike
Doctor
that
geueth
this
interpretation
of
this
place
for
the
literall
sence
thereof
,
or
if
you
cannot
,
blush
at
your
impertinencies
;
bringinge
the
morall
or
misticall
interpretation
of
one
author
,
to
prooue
that
catholikes
leaue
the
vniforme
literall
interpretation
of
the
scriptures
geuen
by
the
fathers
▪
yea
though
this
were
geuen
for
the
literal
sence
of
this
place
,
yet
would
it
not
prooue
that
we
leaue
the
fathers
interpretation
of
the
same
place
:
one
passage
of
scripture
,
beinge
capable
of
diuers
literall
interpretations
:
so
that
your
impertinencie
appeareth
yett
more
grosse
.
PILK
.
As
then
the
Iewes
tyed
themselues
to
theire
Rabbines
,
that
they
must
receiue
whatsoeuer
they
teach
,
thoughe
they
say
the
right
hande
is
the
lefte
:
so
haue
you
captiuated
your self
in
such
manner
to
the
▪
sence
of
the
Romane
churche
,
that
one
of
yours
is
not
afrayde
to
teache
,
is
anie
man
haue
her
interpretation
of
anie
place
of
scripture
,
thoughe
he
neither
knowe
or
vnderstande
whether
or
howe
it
agree
with
the
scriptures
,
yett
he
hath
the
worde
of
god
.
CHAM
.
We
doe
not
imitate
the
Iewes
in
adheringe
to
the
churches
sence
of
the
scripture
,
as
you
idlie
imagine
,
PILK
.
As
for
the
fathers
we
reade
theire
workes
,
and
geue
God
thankes
for
theire
labours
,
who
haue
cleared
manie
obscurities
in
the
scriptures
,
desended
the
auntient
doctrine
of
the
church
against
the
nouelties
of
heretikes
,
yett
with
their
good
leaues
we
passe
by
theire
interpretations
,
when
they
are
dissonant
from
the
scriptures
,
and
willinglie
imbrace
them
when
they
are
consonant
,
tryinge
theire
expositions
by
them
,
not
them
by
theire
expositions
;
and
in
a
worde
euer
deducing
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
from
themselues
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
well
you
here
acknowledge
some
obscurities
PILK
.
Not
without
cause
is
there
an
healthfull
ecclesiasticall
Canon
vigilantlie
constituted
,
whereunto
certayne
bookes
of
the
prophets
and
Apostels
doe
appertaine
,
which
we
doe
not
iudge
att
all
,
and
accordinge
to
which
we
iudge
freelie
of
other
letters
of
the
faithfull
or
of
infidels
,
saith
S.
August
.
So
that
beinge
vrged
with
Cyprians
authoritie
,
that
these
which
were
baptized
in
heresie
or
schisme
were
to
be
rebaptized
,
he
answereth
we
offer
noe
wronge
to
Cyprian
when
we
putt
a
difference
betweene
his
letters
and
the
Canonicall
authoritie
of
holy
scriptures
:
for
(
as
he
goeth
on
in
the
next
chapter
)
I
doe
not
accompte
of
Cyprians
letters
as
Canonicall
,
but
I
weigh
them
by
the
bookes
that
are
Canonicall
;
and
what
is
agreable
in
them
to
the
authoritie
of
diuine
scriptures
,
I
with
praise
intertayne
,
and
what
is
disagreeinge
,
with
his
leaue
I
refuse
.
CHAMP
.
We
neither
compare
nor
oppose
the
fathers
workes
to
the
scriptures
,
and
therefore
these
wordes
of
S
,
Aug.
are
as
impertinentlie
alleaged
by
you
as
all
the
rest
you
haue
hitherto
sayde
.
If
anie
one
father
teach
anie
thinge
contrarie
to
the
scriptures
interpreted
by
the
rest
of
the
fathers
and
the
catholicke
churche
,
as
S.
Cyprian
of
humane
errour
,
and
not
of
willfull
obstinacie
did
,
we
receiue
not
his
doctrine
in
that
pointe
.
As
S.
August
:
in
the
32.
cap.
here
quoted
by
you
expresslie
saith
in
these
wordes
.
That
which
b●esse●
cyprian
thought
of
the
baptizinge
of
heretikes
and
schismatikes
I
receiue
not
,
because
the
churche
doth
not
receiue
it
,
for
the
which
S.
Cyprian
shedd
his
blood
.
Followe
you
S.
Aug:
example
in
refusinge
the
fathers
interpretation
in
this
manner
&
no
man
will
finde
faulte
with
you
.
PILK
.
This
freedome
which
S.
Aug.
sheweth
,
we
protestants
freelie
mantaine
against
the
slauerie
of
your
popish
spiritts
,
knowinge
what
is
due
to
men
,
and
acknowledginge
what
is
proper
to
gods
holy
worde
,
which
we
euer
interprete
out
of
it selfe
,
wherein
we
followe
the
direction
of
the
auntient
priests
and
leuits
that
read
the
lawe
vnto
the
people
expoundinge
the
meaninge
and
gaue
the
vnderstandinge
according
to
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
I
wish
with
all
my
hearte
(
thoughe
you
geue
little
occasion
to
hope
it
)
that
you
woulde
immitate
S.
Aug:
aswell
in
this
particular
as
in
all
other
thinges
:
then
woulde
you
with
all
humilitie
and
reuerence
receiue
and
acknowledge
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
in
the
interpretation
of
the
scriptures
,
and
not
diabolicallie
bragge
of
the
brauenes
of
your
spirits
,
that
dare
contemne
the
same
.
Hearken
I
pray
you
vnto
S.
Aug:
wordes
to
Cresconius
in
the
same
chapter
cited
by
you
;
which
seeinge
you
take
noe
notice
of
,
it
is
an
euident
argument
you
haue
noe
greate
desire
to
learne
anie
thinge
of
him
;
but
to
see
if
you
canne
picke
anie
thinge
out
of
him
for
your
purpose
,
which
is
to
impugne
him
and
the
rest
of
the
fathers
.
His
wordes
are
these
which
may
as
properlie
be
vsed
to
you
,
as
he
vsed
them
to
Cresconius
.
Put
your selfe
(
saith
he
)
in
the
churche
which
it
is
manifest
S.
Cyprian
defended
,
and
then
may
you
alleage
S.
Cyprians
authoritie
for
your
doctrine
.
The
same
I
say
to
you
concerninge
S.
Aug:
example
,
thoughe
you
came
neerer
the
imitatinge
thereof
then
you
doe
.
You
say
you
followe
the
direction
of
the
priests
and
leuits
in
expoundinge
scriptures
.
I
finde
nothing
att
all
in
the
place
quoted
by
you
warrantinge
your
vsage
of
scriptures
.
But
were
it
as
you
thinke
,
you
must
first
prooue
your selues
to
be
priests
or
leuits
,
before
you
can
take
vppon
you
the
charge
of
priests
and
leuits
in
expoundinge
the
scriptures
.
How
would
you
answere
that
olde
question
put
vnto
such
as
you
are
well
nighe
.
1400.
yeares
a
goe
?
Vnde
vemtts
?
quid
in
meo
●acitis
non
mei
?
or
if
you
will
take
vppon
you
as
priests
and
leuits
to
expounde
the
scriptures
beinge
noe
such
men
,
those
that
desire
not
to
be
deceaued
,
will
reiect
your
expositions
as
false
and
pernitious
.
PILK
.
And
thus
the
fathers
teache
vs
,
as
whatsoeuer
CHAMP
.
The
sence
of
the
churche
is
neuer
without
the
scriptures
,
as
the
sence
of
all
heretikes
is
which
impugne
the
churche
,
and
if
the
scriptures
permitt
not
the
hearer
to
err
(
as
you
say
)
in
vaine
are
your
expositions
:
euerie
hearer
beinge
aswell
able
to
vnderstande
them
as
you
ministers
.
You
said
not
longe
since
that
there
are
manie
obscurities
in
the
scriptures
.
and
are
they
nowe
so
cleare
that
they
permitte
not
the
hearer
to
err
?
Doe
you
not
see
what
absurdities
you
runne
into
,
whilst
you
wrangle
against
the
euident
truth
?
And
who
I
pray
you
is
more
like
to
take
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
from
the
wordes
themselues
,
and
not
to
impose
it
vppon
them
as
you
say
out
of
S.
Hillarie
,
then
the
catholicke
churche
assisted
to
that
end
by
the
holy
ghost
?
PILK
.
To
conclude
this
pointe
,
sith
the
fathers
often
Lib
3.
d●
verbo
c.
3
▪
roue
att
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
,
vnderstandinge
that
literallie
which
is
meant
spiritually
,
and
contrariwise
,
as
your
owne
Bellarmine
may
informe
you
,
you
shoulde
haue
donne
well
,
to
haue
followed
the
direction
of
your
owne
Canon
lawe
:
you
must
not
from
without
scriptures
seeke
a
forrayne
and
straunge
sence
,
that
so
you
may
confirme
it
with
authoritie
of
the
text
as
you
can
,
but
of
the
scriptures
themselues
you
must
receiue
the
meaninge
of
the
truth
.
CHAMP
.
If
the
fathers
roue
at
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
(
which
saucie
and
vnseemlie
terme
you
falslie
father
vppon
Bellarmine
)
what
shall
I
thinke
you
will
doe
?
Hitt
the
marke
directlie
?
what
sencelesnes
would
that
be
,
to
thinke
that
men
impugninge
violentlie
the
church
,
which
the
scriptures
testifie
to
be
pillar
of
truth
,
should
be
true
interpreters
of
scriptures
?
Knowe
you
therefore
,
that
whilst
followe
the
fathers
interpretations
of
the
scriptures
which
they
either
receiue
from
the
churche
,
or
is
approoued
and
not
approoued
and
not
gainsayde
by
the
churche
,
I
seek●
not
the
sence
of
the
scriptures
from
without
them
,
but
in
them
,
by
them
,
and
most
conformablie
to
them
,
and
so
I
followe
punctuallie
the
direction
of
the
Canon
Lawe
,
as
you
aduise
me
,
maruellinge
not
a
little
that
you
should
geue
so
good
counsell
to
another
,
and
followe
it
so
little
your selfe
.
And
nowe
(
Iudicious
reader
)
woulde
I
intreate
thee
to
turne
ouer
a
fewe
leaues
backwarde
,
and
take
reuiewe
of
the
short
section
of
the
manuall
,
sett
downe
as
it
is
in
Mr.
Pilkinton
,
and
then
passe
hardlie
thy
censure
of
vs
both
as
thou
shalt
finde
cause
and
ground
.
And
particular
note
I
woulde
haue
thee
to
take
howe
pertinentlie
,
and
directlie
he
impugneth
that
which
h●
affirms
〈…〉
and
effectuallie
prooueth
that
which
I
woulde
haue
thee
obserue
thoroughe
ou●
whole
dispute
.
MANVALL
SECTIO
4.
Thirdlie
that
I
expect
and
exact
of
him
or
them
that
shall
goe
aboute
to
answere
this
teatise
,
the
same
round
,
sincere
and
direct
dealinge
,
which
I
haue
here
vsed
;
Remembringe
before
all
thinges
,
that
he
sett
downe
his
faith
in
direct
positions
,
and
proceed
in
like
methode
as
I
haue
donne
for
the
rest
.
To
whom
I
willinglie
graunt
this
large
libertie
aboue
that
which
I
haue
vsed
,
that
he
tye
not
himselfe
vnto
the
first
.
500.
yeres
after
Christ
for
the
fathers
interpretations
,
but
that
he
take
bouldlie
.
1500.
yeres
,
so
that
he
bringe
not
condemned
heretikes
for
his
authors
,
and
with
all
obserue
the
pointe
followinge
.
PILK
.
You
may
bouldlie
sound
the
Triumphe
before
the
victorie
,
if
you
may
prescribe
your
aduersaries
howe
and
what
they
shall
answere
you
,
which
if
any
of
vs
shoulde
offer
to
your
side
,
we
should
presentlie
be
vpbrayded
with
(
fortissimi
milites
)
that
on
noe
other
condition
dare
encounter
with
our
enemies
,
except
we
forbidde
them
what
weapons
they
would
vse
,
and
take
to
our selues
what
we
list
.
Neuerthelesse
rather
then
you
shoulde
complaine
that
you
are
wronged
,
if
your
desire
be
not
accomplished
,
who
carrie
in
your
head
Ticonius
conceipt
,
quod
volumus
sanctum
est
,
therefore
I
am
content
to
followe
your
disorderlie
order
,
and
for
the
rest
of
this
paragraph
doe
as
Antonie
the
oratour
did
,
who
when
he
came
to
a
troublesome
pointe
,
lapped
it
vp
in
silence
:
so
on
the
contrarie
,
for
the
easines
of
this
to
passe
by
itt
,
and
proceede
to
that
which
is
of
greater
moment
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
not
onlie
lawfull
but
verie
laudable
and
welbeseeminge
for
anie
man
to
demande
equall
conditions
of
his
aduersarie
,
which
notwithstandinge
I
haue
spared
to
doe
;
yeldinge
vnto
you
the
libertie
of
1500.
for
onlie
500.
yeeres
,
which
is
in
anie
indifferent
mens
iudgment
,
ouer
great
aduantage
.
For
the
rest
of
this
section
I
will
imitate
your
example
lettinge
it
passe
in
silence
.
For
I
will
not
be
ashamed
to
followe
you
where
you
goe
right
.
MANVALL
SECTION
5.
Fowerthlie
that
it
shall
not
be
to
ani
▪
purpose
in
way
of
answere
,
that
anie
aduersarie
bringe
another
interpretation
of
some
father
vpon
the
places
of
scripture
alleaged
by
me
beside
that
which
I
haue
brought
.
For
it
is
not
denyed
that
one
and
the
same
place
of
scripture
,
may
be
and
is
often
diuerslie
vnderstoode
,
not
onlie
of
diuerse
fathers
,
but
of
one
and
the
same
father
.
But
if
he
will
say
anie
thinge
to
the
purpose
in
this
kinde
,
he
must
bringe
an
interpretation
contradictinge
that
,
which
I
haue
brought
:
and
withall
labour
rather
to
prooue
his
owne
doctrine
,
then
to
impugne
that
of
the
catholickes
.
For
seeinge
it
is
(
as
all
men
knowe
)
a
farr
more
easie
thinge
to
impugne
anie
doctrine
,
thoughe
neuer
so
true
,
then
to
prooue
the
same
,
(
no
truth
especiallie
of
faith
,
beinge
so
euidentlie
cleare
,
but
that
somethinge
with
shewe
of
probabilitie
may
be
obiected
against
it
)
it
is
not
nowe
expected
that
anie
aduersarie
should
stand
to
answere
those
authorities
of
scripture
and
fathers
which
I
haue
alleaged
for
proofe
of
the
catholicke
doctrine
,
or
to
impugne
the
same
,
but
rather
to
bring
others
in
proofe
of
his
owne
.
That
the
iudicious
reader
may
compare
our
groundes
in
scripture
both
together
,
and
by
the
viewe
of
his
owne
eie
,
try
whether
of
them
be
more
conformeable
to
gods
sacred
worde
.
And
when
anie
one
shall
haue
produced
his
proofes
for
protestantisme
,
in
like
manner
as
I
haue
in
the
behalfe
of
the
catholicke
religion
(
if
he
can
so
doe
)
yett
shall
he
gaine
no
more
thereby
,
but
an
euident
demonstration
against
the
cheefest
groundes
of
the
protestants
doctrine
,
that
eitherto
the
true
and
full
decision
of
controuersies
in
matter
of
faith
,
is
necessarilie
required
some
other
iudgment
or
tryall
,
then
the
onlie
wordes
of
holie
scripture
,
or
else
,
that
there
is
no
meanes
at
all
to
end
matters
of
controuersies
of
faith
,
which
latter
neuerthelesse
to
affirme
,
is
no
lesse
iniurious
to
gods
wisdome
,
goodnes
and
power
then
to
say
that
he
hath
prouided
no
sufficient
meanes
for
men
to
knowe
the
way
to
saue
their
soules
.
For
both
parties
bringinge
scriptures
for
themselues
,
who
shall
finallie
determine
whether
of
them
doth
applie
the
sayd
scriptures
more
sincerelie
,
and
according
to
theire
true
meaninge
?
PILK
.
Your
demaundes
doe
so
crosse
one
another
,
as
if
your
thoughts
had
been
at
warres
together
.
First
you
prescribe
your
aduersarie
howe
he
shall
answere
you
,
not
by
bringing
another
sence
of
anie
father
vppon
the
place
of
scripture
alleaged
by
you
,
but
a
contradictorie
.
And
then
you
forbidde
him
to
answere
either
scripture
or
father
vrged
by
you
,
but
to
fortifie
&
prooue
his
owne
doctrine
.
But
you
must
be
content
whether
you
wil
or
noe
to
suffer
your
aduersary
to
vnmaske
your
fraude
,
and
to
open
the
vayle
of
your
cunninge
dealing
,
both
in
your
doubtfull
positions
and
impertinent
allegations
,
by
sheweinge
the
natiue
sence
of
the
scriptures
euen
from
the
fathers
,
to
haue
no
concurrence
with
your
imaginations
,
but
to
contradict
them
:
and
then
he
will
be
content
to
acquainte
you
with
the
groundes
of
his
doctrine
(
which
either
ignorantlie
you
mistake
,
or
purposelie
peruert
)
which
beinge
paralleld
with
yours
,
the
reader
may
iudge
on
which
side
the
truth
standeth
.
CHAMP
.
Your
head
is
so
full
of
crochets
that
you
imagine
my
wordes
to
crosse
one
another
;
or
else
you
say
so
onlie
to
make
your
lesse
heedfull
reader
to
thinke
so
vppon
your
creditt
.
I
neither
prescribe
to
mine
aduersarie
how
hee
should
answere
mee
,
neither
doe
I
forbidd
him
to
answere
either
scripture
or
Fathers
alleaged
by
me
as
you
are
pleased
to
faigne
out
of
your
owne
braine
▪
which
notwithstandinge
if
I
hadd
donne
,
yett
hadd
there
been
no
crossinge
betwixte
those
thinges
as
euerie
man
may
easilie
see
)
but
I
tel
him
what
manner
of
answere
wil
be
to
the
purpose
,
and
what
will
not
▪
and
further
I
require
he
should
first
sett
downe
his
owne
beleefe
with
the
proofe
thereof
out
of
the
scriptures
;
which
two
thinges
doe
not
crosse
one
another
in
anie
mans
iudgment
but
yours
,
&
besides
,
the
reason
which
I
geue
both
for
the
one
and
the
other
is
clearlie
good
and
true
.
For
your
vnmaskinge
of
my
fraude
▪
spare
it
not
in
gods
name
;
and
I
promise
you
that
if
you
discouer
but
one
quarter
of
those
blotttes
and
blemishes
in
my
face
,
that
I
haue
alreadie
donne
in
yours
,
I
will
hide
it
for
euer
that
it
neuer
appeare
in
publike
more
.
But
nowe
I
will
hearken
howe
you
wil
performe
the
greate
thinges
you
here
promise
.
PILK
.
But
this
is
no
parte
of
your
meaninge
at
all
,
that
your
reader
shoulde
trye
by
the
scriptures
as
the
Bereans
did
,
and
so
rest
himselfe
satisfied
.
CHAMP
.
My
meaninge
(
good
Sr.
)
is
that
the
reader
should
searche
the
scriptures
alleaged
by
me
in
proofe
of
the
catholicke
saith
,
and
tr●e
whether
he
finde
them
not
so
as
I
haue
cited
them
;
which
the
Bereans
did
.
Whereby
he
shall
finde
the
chatholicke
doctrine
to
be
trulie
grounded
vppon
the
holy
scriptures
and
consormeable
vnto
them
,
as
the
Bereans
did
finde
S
Paules
doctrine
to
be
:
thoughe
they
were
bound●
to
beleeue
his
preachinge
without
that
research
.
PILK
.
But
your
drifte
is
,
after
you
haue
sett
the
scriptures
togeather
by
the
eares
,
to
thrust
vppon
him
the
authoritie
of
the
Pope
,
who
must
finallie
determine
on
which
side
the
sence
of
the
scripture
bendeth
,
and
then
I
doubte
not
but
you
shall
winne
the
day
.
CHAMP
.
My
drifte
is
to
make
the
reader
see
that
the
catholike
faith
hath
true
grounde
in
the
holy
scriptures
▪
and
if
you
or
anie
other
will
shewe
the
same
for
your
newe
doctrine
,
the
reader
must
necessarilie
see
that
he
must
finde
somes
meanes
to
knowe
to
whether
side
the
true
sence
of
the
scriptures
doth
trulie
agree
:
And
if
he
finde
that
the
Pope
who
is
cheife
&
head
of
all
those
to
whom
our
Sauiour
sayde
,
he
that
heareth
you
,
heareth
me
▪
geueth
sentence
for
the
allegations
on
the
catholicke
side
(
as
you
confesse
,
there
is
no
doubte
but
he
will
)
If
he
haue
anie
true
care
of
his
soule
,
he
will
beleeue
and
followe
that
parte
.
PILK
.
For
thus
you
carrie
the
matter
,
when
both
parties
haue
brought
scriptures
for
themselues
out
the
letter
of
the
scriptures
,
not
opposinge
the
letter
to
the
sence
as
you
falselie
say
I
meane
;
but
seekinge
and
takinge
the
sence
from
the
letter
onlie
?
Is
not
this
your
doctrine
,
in
this
verie
section
?
you
cannot
denie
it
vnlesse
you
haue
a
face
to
say
and
vnsay
at
euerie
turne
.
Cast
vp
therefore
once
more
your
owne
cardes
,
and
see
what
other
Iudge
you
make
of
controuersies
besides
the
onlie
wordes
of
scripture
.
Therefore
either
blushe
your selfe
,
or
if
your
face
be
so
brasen
that
you
cannot
,
bidd
some
other
blush
for
you
,
that
you
either
vnderstande
not
your
owne
doctrine
,
or
are
ashamed
to
acknoweledge
and
maintaine
it
.
I
knowe
to
what
end
is
all
this
florishe
of
wordes
;
to
raise
vppe
a
little
smoake
before
your
readers
eies
,
that
you
may
steale
away
and
leaue
the
difficultie
(
which
you
knowe
presseth
you
harde
)
vutouched
;
you
shall
not
scape
so
I
wisse
.
PILK
.
If
then
there
appeare
a
●arre
in
the
scriptures
that
some
of
them
are
opposed
to
others
,
as
it
fell
out
betweene
the
auncient
Bishoppes
and
the
Arrians
,
betweene
the
Catholikes
and
Donatists
,
betweene
Pelagians
and
godlie
teachers
,
and
nowe
betweene
you
and
vs
,
that
on
both
sides
they
are
produced
,
a
iudge
must
be
sought
for
to
reconcile
them
.
Who
is
that
?
not
a
Christian
,
for
he
is
partie
on
the
one
side
or
the
other
,
not
a
pagan
,
he
knoweth
not
the
misteries
of
Christianitie
,
not
a
Iewe
for
he
is
an
enemie
to
Christian
Baptisme
:
on
Earth
there
can
be
founde
CHAMP
.
Because
these
sayinges
of
Optatus
,
haue
the
same
meaninge
with
that
of
S.
Aug
which
imediatlie
followeth
,
it
shall
there
appeare
howe
litle
they
serue
your
turne
.
Here
are
onlie
to
be
noted
these
wordes
of
his
.
On
earth
there
is
founde
noe
iudge
:
By
which
wordes
he
excludeth
not
all
iudgment
vppon
earth
,
for
so
should
he
exclude
the
testament
also
it selfe
,
but
he
excludeth
all
earthlie
or
humane
iudgment
as
vnfitt
and
vnable
to
decide
differencies
of
faith
,
of
which
sorte
the
iudgment
of
the
churche
is
not
.
For
shee
is
the
piller
and
ground
of
truth
perpetuallie
PILK
.
S.
August
:
runneth
the
verie
same
course
&
almost
vseth
the
same
wordes
as
if
he
had
taken
them
out
of
Optatus
?
we
are
brethren
(
saith
he
)
why
doe
we
striue
,
our
father
died
not
intestate
,
he
hath
made
a
testament
,
and
so
died
;
men
doe
striue
aboute
the
goods
of
the
dead
,
till
the
testament
be
brought
foorth
,
when
that
is
brought
,
they
yeeld
to
haue
it
opened
,
and
read
;
the
iudge
doth
hearken
,
the
counsellours
be
silent
,
the
crier
biddeth
peace
,
all
the
people
are
attentiue
that
the
wordes
of
the
dead
man
may
be
read
and
heard
,
he
lyeth
voide
of
life
and
feelinge
in
his
graue
,
and
his
wordes
preuaile
.
Christe
doth
sitt
in
heauen
,
and
is
his
testament
gainsayde
?
open
it
,
lett
vs
reade
it
,
we
are
brethren
,
why
doe
we
striue
?
let
our
mindes
be
pacified
,
our
father
hath
not
lefte
vs
without
a
testament
,
he
that
made
the
testament
is
liuinge
for
euer
,
he
doth
heare
our
wordes
,
he
doth
knowe
his
owne
worde
,
why
doe
we
striue
?
CHAMP
.
S.
Aug:
by
these
plaine
wordes
of
the
spalme
▪
Reminis●entur
&
conuertentur
ad
Dominum
omnes
fines
terrae
.
Et
adorabunt
in
conspect●
eius
vniuersae
familiae
genti
〈…〉
:
as
by
the
confessed
testament
of
the
father
,
prooueth
that
the
Donatists
haue
noe
right
to
the
inheritance
of
the
churche
(
which
they
contrarie
to
the
testament
of
God
expressed
in
the
psalme
)
say
was
onlie
in
a
corner
of
the
world
amongst
them
.
Who
notwithstandinge
were
not
come
to
that
degree
of
sēclesnes
,
as
to
say
the
church
was
inuisible
as
the
protestants
doe
.
Iustlie
therefore
did
S.
Aug:
prouoke
the
Donatists
in
this
pointe
to
the
tryall
of
the
testament
;
as
also
the
catholikes
doe
the
protestantes
in
the
pointe
of
the
reall
presence
,
and
diuers
others
.
Which
tryall
notwithstandinge
is
not
sufficient
where
either
scripture
is
opposed
to
scripture
,
or
it
is
not
agreed
vppon
which
is
the
scripture
it selfe
,
as
it
happeneth
betweene
the
catholikes
and
protestants
,
as
shall
●ore
amplie
appeare
by
and
by
.
PILK
.
And
S.
Ambrose
more
auncient
then
both
,
to
Gratian
the
Emperour
;
Beleeue
not
Emperour
our
Argument
,
and
our
disputation
,
let
vs
aske
the
Scriptures
,
let
vs
aske
the
Apostles
,
let
vs
aske
the
Prophets
,
let
vs
aske
Christ
,
what
shoulde
I
adde
more
,
let
vs
aske
the
Father
,
of
whose
honour
they
say
they
are
Iealous
.
CHAMP
.
Sr.
you
alwaies
speake
besides
the
purpose
.
The
question
betweene
you
and
me
,
is
not
whether
the
scriptures
vnderstoode
in
the
sence
of
the
church
are
not
sufficient
to
decide
anie
controuersie
in
faith
;
and
namelie
that
whereof
S.
Amb.
disputeth
,
which
is
not
denyed
vnto
you
:
but
whether
the
scriptures
lefte
vnto
the
interpretation
of
either
party
contendinge
,
are
a
sufficient
iudge
to
end
all
controuersies
in
faith
.
In
which
question
I
defende
the
negatiue
,
and
you
the
affirmatiue
if
you
will
yett
contend
anie
more
.
These
testimonies
therefore
of
the
fathers
aswell
of
S.
Ambrose
as
those
that
went
before
and
also
that
followe
,
are
alleaged
beside
the
question
,
and
altogether
impertinentlie
as
all
the
rest
of
your
sayinges
for
the
moste
parte
are
.
PILK
.
A
Gentile
cometh
and
saith
I
woulde
be
a
Christian
,
but
I
knowe
not
which
side
to
cleaue
CHAMP
.
This
allegation
of
S.
Chrisost.
is
not
onlie
impertinent
as
all
the
rest
are
,
but
fraudulent
and
proceedinge
of
a
minde
not
willinge
to
finde
out
the
truth
,
but
to
deceiue
the
reader
For
the
wordes
imediatlie
followinge
and
lefte
out
by
you
(
Mr.
Pilkinton
)
propose
directlie
the
question
which
nowe
is
in
hande
,
and
the
answere
thereof
followeth
also
consequentlie
.
Quid
igitur
(
saith
S.
Chrisost.
)
What
therefore
if
he
say
,
that
the
scripture
hath
in
this
sort
:
and
thou
sayest
another
thinge
,
explicatinge
the
scriptures
otherwise
,
and
drawinge
theire
sence
to
fauour
thee
?
Loe
here
the
question
in
controuersie
betweene
Mr.
Pilkinton
and
me
.
Howe
doth
S.
Chrisostome
answere
it
?
doth
he
send
vs
to
the
scriptures
for
decidinge
thereof
?
no
such
thinge
,
but
he
geueth
diuerse
rules
or
markes
whereby
he
that
is
in
doubte
whether
parte
to
followe
,
may
iudge
who
hath
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
scriptures
.
And
after
one
or
two
rules
he
addeth
this
:
Vt
autem
manifestius
dicam
:
But
that
I
may
speake
more
plainlie
;
they
(
to
witt
heretikes
)
haue
certayne
men
of
whom
they
are
named
▪
for
the
sect
is
named
of
the
author
,
but
wee
(
to
witt
the
catholikes
)
haue
not
our
name
of
anie
man
And
a
little
after
answeringe
to
the
same
question
more
fullie
he
addeth
.
What
?
are
we
cutt
off
from
the
church
?
haue
we
Archeheretickes
?
are
we
surnamed
of
anie
man
?
haue
we
a
captayne
(
anie
particular
man
)
as
these
haue
Marcion
,
these
Manicheus
,
a
thirde
Arrius
,
and
other
heresies
haue
theire
sect
masters
.
(
As
Lutherans
haue
Luther
,
Caluinists
haue
Caluin
and
the
like
)
.
And
though
we
haue
the
name
of
anie
one
,
●et
is
is
not
of
the
father
of
anie
heresie
,
but
of
those
who
are
our
pastours
and
doe
gouuerne
the
churche
.
We
haue
not
Maisters
vppon
Earth
(
as
all
heretikes
haue
)
God
forbidde
,
we
haue
one
in
heauen
.
Thou
wilte
say
that
they
pretende
the
same
.
But
they
haue
a
name
that
accuseth
them
,
and
giueth
them
theire
names
.
Thus
farr
S.
Chrisostome
,
whereby
it
appeareth
not
onlie
how
impertinent
or
fraudulent
Mr.
Pilkinton
is
in
his
allegations
;
but
also
of
what
moment
the
auncient
fathers
esteemed
the
argument
taken
from
the
surnames
of
sects
,
for
the
discouerie
of
theire
heresies
and
false
doctrines
.
PILK
.
Loe
in
these
cases
wherein
scriptures
were
produced
on
both
sides
the
fathers
fledd
for
resolution
vnto
other
scriptures
,
where
it
appeareth
your
inferrence
to
be
without
coherence
,
that
if
there
be
not
a
iudge
without
the
scriptures
,
God
hath
not
prouided
sufficient
meanes
to
saue
mens
soules
,
seeinge
that
composinge
of
controuersies
,
reconcilinge
of
differencies
,
clearinge
of
doubtes
,
manifestation
of
truth
,
is
not
from
without
to
be
fetched
,
but
in
the
testament
it selfe
to
be
learned
,
that
we
may
knowe
scriptures
,
and
them
onlie
to
be
the
supreme
iudge
from
whence
decision
of
doubtes
in
matters
of
faith
is
to
be
deriued
.
CHAMP
.
Marke
iudicious
reader
whether
this
be
anie
other
thinge
,
then
that
which
I
sayde
in
this
section
.
One
chie●e
ground
of
the
prosestants
doctrine
to
be
,
that
the
wordes
of
the
scripture
are
the
iudge
of
all
controuersies
.
For
the
which
Mr.
Pilk
:
hotly
reprehendeth
me
of
fraude
and
falsehodde
.
See
his
wordes
a
little
before
at
this
marke
†
in
the
margent
,
and
maruell
at
his
witt
,
iudgment
and
memorie
:
Nowe
to
the
purpose
.
Noe
one
of
all
the
testimonies
alleaged
by
you
doth
say
,
that
where
scriptures
are
produced
by
both
partes
,
they
are
sufficient
to
decide
the
controuersie
.
Thoughe
I
doe
not
denie
,
but
for
the
moste
part
the
inequallity
is
so
greate
in
the
catholike
partie
(
as
it
also
falleth
out
in
the
cause
betweene
the
protestants
and
catholikes
at
this
day
)
that
anie
man
of
indifferent
witt
,
iudgment
and
desire
to
find
out
the
truth
,
may
see
on
whether
side
the
scripture
standeth
.
But
that
they
are
not
absolutelie
sufficient
where
there
is
obstinacie
on
anie
side
,
I
shall
make
your selfe
to
confesse
(
thoughe
peruerse
enoughe
)
or
else
I
shall
much
marueill
;
&
that
by
the
verie
example
vsed
by
S.
Optatus
and
S.
Aug:
and
approoued
here
by
your selfe
.
Put
therefore
the
case
,
that
the
children
of
a
deceased
father
contend
aboute
the
inheritance
,
euerie
one
of
them
challenginge
it
as
appertayninge
to
himselfe
,
&
in
proofe
or
confirmation
of
his
clayme
alleageth
the
testament
and
will
of
his
father
,
which
he
protesteth
to
be
cleare
for
him
,
and
against
his
competitours
,
beinge
rightlie
vnderstoode
,
persisting
most
stifly
in
his
opinion
and
in
deffence
of
his
right
clayme
,
as
he
is
perswaded
.
The
case
beinge
putt
thus
(
which
is
the
verie
same
with
ours
in
the
controuersy
of
religion
)
will
you
say
in
the
sinceritie
of
your
hearte
,
that
the
sole
will
or
testament
of
the
father
is
a
sufficient
iudge
to
decide
this
difference
and
to
bringe
the
parties
to
an
accorde
?
And
that
there
needeth
not
anie
other
iudge
or
arbiter
to
determine
vppon
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
fathers
will
,
whereby
they
all
pretende
to
make
theire
clayme
,
and
to
grounde
theire
title
?
you
will
not
I
thinke
say
,
yea
,
to
this
question
.
And
well
I
wote
that
were
the
case
your
owne
betwixte
your selfe
&
your
bretheren
concerninge
a
temporall
inheritance
,
experience
(
which
though
shee
be
the
mistres
of
fooles
,
is
not
for
all
that
a
foolish
mistres
)
woulde
teach
you
that
it
is
a
meere
Paradoxe
to
maintayne
that
the
sole
testament
of
your
deceased
father
,
could
in
this
case
decide
the
controuersie
amongst
you
his
disagreeinge
children
.
So
that
the
example
brought
by
your selfe
out
of
the
fathers
,
is
prooued
to
make
manifestlie
against
you
.
Which
will
yet
be
much
more
cleare
,
if
the
case
be
putt
as
it
is
indeede
with
vs
,
that
these
brethren
doe
not
only
contend
aboute
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
theire
fathers
testament
,
but
also
aboute
the
testament
it selfe
;
the
one
contestinge
the
whole
writinge
contayned
in
the
booke
vnder
the
title
of
his
will
to
be
his
true
testament
,
another
not
receiuinge
the
whole
,
contendeth
diuers
partes
and
parcells
not
to
belonge
therunto
.
And
another
yett
reiectinge
more
;
as
it
falleth
out
betweene
vs
and
the
protestants
,
Caluin
castinge
out
of
the
testament
of
God
,
fiue
whole
bookes
besides
some
large
partes
of
other
bookes
,
which
the
catholikes
belieue
to
appertayn
to
his
true
testament
.
Luther
reiectinge
besides
these
,
diuerse
other
whole
bookes
.
The
case
therefore
beinge
thus
,
howe
is
it
possible
that
the
sole
written
testament
of
God
shoulde
decide
the
controuersie
betweene
these
competitors
,
and
bring
them
to
an
accorde
?
who
doe
not
agree
so
much
as
in
what
bookes
or
writinges
the
testament
is
contayned
,
so
farre
are
they
from
beinge
at
accorde
of
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
thereof
.
It
is
therefore
no
other
thinge
to
say
in
this
case
,
that
the
scriptures
must
iudge
all
controuersies
,
then
to
say
that
the
controuersie
it selfe
,
must
be
iudge
of
the
controuersie
,
which
is
more
then
madnes
to
thinke
.
For
the
controuersie
beinge
not
onlie
what
the
scripture
saith
,
or
meaneth
,
but
also
what
is
scripture
,
it
is
all
one
to
say
,
that
scriptures
must
iudge
and
decide
all
controuersies
,
and
to
say
the
controuersies
themselues
must
decide
all
controuersies
.
Againe
seeinge
you
Mr.
Pilkinton
,
seeme
to
geue
so
much
to
holy
scripture
as
to
be
able
and
sufficient
to
decide
all
doubtes
and
determine
all
differences
in
matter
of
faith
,
Why
doe
you
not
hearken
vnto
them
when
they
send
you
to
the
churche
and
to
the
pastours
,
and
doctours
thereof
,
as
to
liuelie
iudges
,
hauinge
the
keyes
of
knowledge
to
vnderstande
the
scriptures
?
But
you
desiringe
nothinge
lesse
then
to
come
to
a
iust
and
competent
tryall
of
your
cause
,
holde
your selues
close
to
that
principle
,
by
which
the
most
detestable
,
vile
,
and
contemptible
heretike
that
euer
was
may
maintaine
his
heresie
,
without
beinge
conuinced
thereof
;
as
I
toulde
you
before
of
Legat
,
which
instance
you
can
neuer
answere
not
satisfy
,
and
which
onlie
is
sufficient
if
you
were
not
obstinatly
peruerse
)
to
make
you
ashamed
to
maintaine
so
senceles
a
Paradox
,
and
so
euidentlie
contradicted
by
perpetuall
experience
in
all
ages
.
Your
last
shifte
or
euasion
of
interpretinge
scripture
by
scripture
,
vnles
there
be
some
agreement
,
or
certaintie
of
the
scripture
interpretinge
,
more
then
of
the
scripture
interpreted
,
which
abstractinge
from
the
iudgment
of
the
churche
cannot
be
had
,
is
a
meere
mockerie
,
and
like
as
if
a
man
would
measure
one
peece
of
veluett
the
measure
whereof
is
as
vncertaine
as
that
of
the
former
.
And
to
conclude
this
section
,
it
beinge
in
question
betweene
the
catholikes
and
protestants
who
is
to
be
iudge
of
controuersies
in
faith
(
yea
the
roote
and
key
of
all
controuersies
,
which
beinge
ended
or
decided
all
the
rest
would
haue
easie
decision
)
you
affirminge
the
scriptures
to
be
this
iudge
and
pretend
to
prooue
this
by
scripture
,
as
al
other
thinges
to
be
beleeued
,
you
are
bounde
by
your
owne
doctrine
,
to
shewe
it
out
of
scripture
,
which
when
you
shall
doe
,
we
will
yeelde
vnto
you
in
all
the
rest
of
the
tontrouersies
betweene
vs
.
But
seeinge
you
can
neuer
doe
this
,
why
doe
you
not
yeelde
to
vs
,
shewinge
you
out
of
manifest
scripture
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
to
decide
controuersies
?
You
say
the
church
is
a
partie
and
therefore
no
competent
iudge
.
But
this
hauinge
been
the
cauill
of
all
condemned
heretikes
,
and
as
truly
alleaged
by
them
as
by
you
,
this
plea
is
no
more
receiueable
in
you
then
in
them
.
And
tell
me
I
pray
you
,
the
kinge
is
he
not
partie
in
all
pleas
of
felonie
or
treason
that
are
brought
into
his
courtes
?
yes
verilie
.
And
yett
none
euer
yet
thought
of
anie
such
plea
,
as
to
appeale
from
the
iudgment
geuen
in
his
name
,
and
by
his
soueraigne
authoritie
in
such
cases
:
Albeit
the
iudgments
geuen
in
his
courtes
are
farr
from
beinge
so
assuredly
iuste
&
equitable
as
are
the
iudgments
of
the
church
,
which
hath
the
infallible
promise
of
the
holy
ghostes
assistance
in
her
decisions
and
determinations
.
You
are
therefore
fast
taken
which
way
soeuer
you
turne
your
selfe
;
and
this
inference
of
myne
:
That
if
there
be
no
other
iudge
of
controuersies
besides
the
scriptures
,
God
hath
not
prouided
sufficient
meanes
to
sa●e
mens
soules
,
which
you
say
is
without
coherence
,
doth
nessarilie
followe
vppon
that
supposition
,
that
heretikes
and
namelie
protestants
,
doe
produce
scriptures
,
in
proofe
of
theire
false
doctrine
,
as
catholikes
doe
for
theire
orthodoxe
beliefe
,
if
there
be
no
other
iudge
to
decide
the
controuersie
but
only
the
scripture
,
which
inference
you
haue
laboured
(
but
all
in
vaine
)
to
ouerthrowe
as
the
indifferent
reader
will
easilie
iudge
.
MANVLL
SECTION
6.
Fiftlie
that
whereas
before
I
can
prooue
anie
point
of
Christian
beleife
by
scriptures
,
I
should
first
by
good
order
prooue
that
there
is
an
holy
scripture
,
and
secondlie
in
what
bookes
of
the
Bible
it
is
contayned
:
yet
because
neither
of
these
two
canne
be
prooued
by
scriptures
,
vnlesse
we
beleeue
some
scripture
without
proofe
,
therfore
that
I
may
prooue
these
pointes
of
faith
wherein
the
Romane
Catholicke
churche
doth
differ
from
the
protestants
,
by
holy
scriptures
(
which
our
aduersaries
vrge
me
vnto
)
I
must
necessarily
to
satisfy
theire
disorderlie
desire
,
proceede
disorderlie
,
and
suppose
that
for
truth
without
proofe
,
which
requireth
most
to
be
prooued
.
I
say
without
proofe
,
if
no
proofe
be
good
but
that
which
is
made
out
of
scripture
.
PILK
.
All
questions
are
not
to
be
disputed
of
,
saith
Aristotle
,
but
only
those
whereof
man
desireth
a
reason
,
that
is
not
worthie
of
punishment
or
lacketh
sence
.
For
if
anie
demaunde
whether
God
is
to
be
worshipped
,
or
our
parents
to
be
loued
,
he
deserueth
stripes
,
or
whether
snowe
be
white
,
he
lacketh
sence
.
This
question
of
yours
,
whether
the
scripture
be
gods
worde
,
tendeth
to
Atheisme
and
deserueth
punishment
,
rather
then
answere
.
CHAMP
.
In
the
precedent
question
,
to
auoyde
the
authority
of
the
churches
iudgment
expreslie
testified
in
the
scriptures
,
you
laboured
to
maintaine
this
paradox
,
that
notwithstandinge
scriptures
were
produced
for
either
partie
of
anie
controuersie
,
yett
the
controuersie
might
be
fullie
ended
and
decided
by
the
scriptures
alone
,
without
anie
other
iudge
decidinge
or
determininge
whether
partie
vsed
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
same
scriptures
.
Nowe
in
this
section
to
auoyde
the
Authoritie
of
Traditions
expreslie
also
taught
in
the
scriptures
,
you
goe
aboute
to
maintaine
another
paradox
no
lesse
improbable
,
to
witt
,
that
it
is
so
clearlie
manifest
not
only
that
there
is
a
written
worde
of
God
,
or
holie
scripture
,
but
also
in
what
booke
it
is
contayned
,
that
to
moue
question
in
either
tendeth
to
Atheisme
,
and
deserueth
punishment
rather
then
answere
,
lett
vs
see
howe
you
make
good
this
your
paradox
.
PILK
.
But
least
you
shoulde
triumphe
before
the
victorie
,
I
answere
,
that
as
in
all
humane
artes
there
be
certain
principles
,
which
are
knowne
of
themselues
,
without
anie
farther
demonstration
:
So
the
verties
that
are
contained
in
the
Cannon
of
the
Bible
,
are
the
principles
&
foundations
of
diuinitie
,
and
receiue
not
authoritie
by
other
thinges
whereby
they
may
be
demonstrated
,
saith
Cameracensis
.
CHAMP
.
Ignorance
in
the
rudiments
of
Philosophie
maketh
you
abuse
your
tearmes
egregiouslie
.
For
what
principles
of
artes
or
sciences
(
I
pray
you
)
are
those
that
are
beleeued
for
themselues
?
none
certainlie
.
For
the
principles
of
all
naturall
knowledge
,
are
either
euidentlie
knowne
by
the
light
of
nature
,
and
not
beleeued
,
or
they
are
beleeued
for
the
authoritie
of
a
higher
knowledge
,
and
not
beleeued
for
themselues
.
The
verities
contayned
in
the
Bible
are
beleeued
,
not
for
themselues
but
for
the
authoritie
of
God
reueilinge
them
,
who
onlie
is
truth
it selfe
,
and
beleeued
for
himselfe
,
of
whome
and
from
whome
they
receiue
authoritie
,
and
haue
it
not
of
themselues
as
you
falselie
affirme
.
But
you
say
they
cannot
be
demonstrated
by
other
principles
.
It
is
true
for
●●●e
but
the
phreneticall
or
phanaticall
Manicheis
did
desire
or
expecte
demonstration
in
matter
of
faith
.
Which
as
S.
August
.
saith
,
is
grounded
vppon
PILK
.
Then
if
the
scriptures
be
principles
,
as
it
is
confessed
on
both
sides
,
it
followeth
that
they
are
immediate
&
indemonstrable
,
as
al
other
principles
are
in
theire
sciences
,
where
of
they
are
principles
,
but
these
more
than
others
,
because
they
are
primae
veritatis
.
And
as
the
first
good
for
it selfe
is
to
be
loued
,
so
the
first
truth
for
it selfe
CHAMP
.
The
scriptures
or
verities
conteyned
in
them
are
confessed
to
be
principles
in
respect
of
all
Theologicall
conclusions
deduced
from
them
,
and
therefore
in
respect
of
them
they
neede
no
farther
proofe
to
anie
christian
diuine
that
beleeueth
them
to
be
the
worde
of
God
.
But
they
are
not
principles
in
respect
of
the
articles
of
our
faith
in
generall
,
but
are
themselues
to
be
beleeued
for
the
same
authoritie
of
God
reueylinge
,
as
all
other
articles
of
faith
are
.
And
that
they
are
not
necessarie
principles
of
the
articles
of
our
●aith
,
it
is
manifest
by
that
,
before
the
scriptures
were
written
,
the
churche
of
God
beleeued
manie
of
the
same
articles
which
nowe
it
beleeueth
.
Therfore
when
you
say
the
scriptures
or
verities
contained
in
them
,
are
primae
veritatis
,
if
ignorance
(
thoughe
grosse
and
not
to
be
excused
in
a
doctour
of
diuinitie
)
doth
not
excuse
you
,
you
will
make
the
scriptures
not
onlie
to
be
gods
worde
,
but
also
to
be
God
himselfe
.
For
besides
him
there
is
no
prima
veritas
which
is
to
be
beleeued
for
it selfe
,
as
vppon
better
consideration
(
I
thinke
)
you
will
not
dare
to
denie
.
Seeinge
therefore
the
scriptures
are
not
primae
veritatis
or
first
truthe
,
but
the
testimonies
wordes
or
verities
reueiled
by
the
first
truthe
,
they
are
not
,
euen
by
your
owne
grounde
to
be
beleeued
for
themselues
,
but
for
the
truthe
and
authoritie
of
the
first
veritie
God
himselfe
,
of
whose
reuelation
we
must
haue
sufficient
grounde
before
we
canne
securelie
and
prudentlie
beleeue
the
scriptures
to
be
his
worde
.
That
which
you
bringe
out
of
S.
Thomas
,
maketh
euidentlie
against
you
(
so
iudicious
are
you
in
your
allegations
.
)
For
the
scriptures
beinge
not
God
,
they
are
not
the
first
truth
,
and
therefore
not
to
be
beleeued
for
themselues
.
S.
Aug.
in
the
first
place
maketh
also
against
you
,
sayinge
that
the
scriptures
are
to
be
beleeued
to
bee
of
gods
spiritt
and
not
to
be
knowne
.
For
to
beleeue
this
he
recurreth
not
to
the
scriptures
themselues
,
but
to
the
authoritie
which
they
had
obtayned
throughe
the
whole
worlde
.
The
second
authoritie
of
S.
Aug.
is
wholie
impertinent
to
your
purpose
,
as
the
reader
thoughe
but
of
meane
iudgment
will
easilie
discerne
.
Hee
sayinge
nothinge
that
soundeth
as
if
the
scriptures
were
to
be
beleeued
for
themselues
,
or
without
other
authoritie
.
And
therfore
thus
farr
haue
you
saide
nothinge
that
may
satisfie
this
assertion
of
the
Manuall
,
that
in
the
orderlie
proceedinge
in
this
present
poincte
,
the
scriptures
shoulde
first
be
prooued
:
but
you
will
peraduenture
satisfie
better
hereafter
.
PILK
.
Yett
further
to
satisfy
you
I
answere
,
that
the
scriptures
doe
sufficientlie
prooue
themselues
,
and
these
and
these
bookes
to
be
the
scripture
,
both
by
that
inwarde
light
that
is
contained
in
them
,
and
that
outwarde
operation
that
they
haue
in
vs
.
For
first
they
are
a
lanterne
to
our
feete
,
and
a
light
to
our
path
,
a
candle
that
shineth
in
a
darke
place
.
And
as
a
light
doth
CHAMP
.
All
this
proueth
noe
other
thinge
,
then
that
to
christians
and
catholikes
who
belieue
the
scriptures
to
be
the
worde
of
God
and
vnderstand
it
in
the
sence
of
the
churche
,
they
haue
all
these
properties
of
light
,
lampe
,
and
lanterne
,
and
this
is
it
which
Stapleton
expreslie
saith
,
if
hou
had
taken
but
verie
ordinarie
heede
to
his
wordes
.
But
to
say
that
either
to
a
Pagan
who
beleeueth
not
the
scriptures
to
be
Gods
worde
;
or
to
an
heretike
,
who
vnderstandeth
them
not
in
the
sence
of
the
churche
but
accordinge
to
his
owne
fancie
,
they
are
such
as
doe
manifest
themselues
to
be
the
worde
of
God
,
is
a
most
sencelesse
Paradox
contradicted
by
manifest
experience
,
not
onlie
in
Martin
Luther
and
all
his
disciples
,
who
as
you
knowe
reiect
diuerse
bookes
receiued
by
Caluin
,
and
his
followers
:
but
also
of
the
auncient
and
holy
fathers
,
who
did
not
vniuersallie
receiue
as
Canonicall
Scripture
,
all
such
bookes
of
the
newe
testament
as
nowe
are
receiued
by
you
.
And
yett
none
of
all
these
I
suppose
you
will
say
,
wanted
light
to
see
that
which
is
manifest
of
it selfe
.
PILK
.
Againe
they
are
knowne
by
theire
operation
in
vs
,
for
the
worde
of
the
Lorde
is
pure
,
and
conuerts
the
soule
,
a
two
edged
sworde
Heb.
4.
12.
a
verie
fierie
worde
psal.
119.
14.
which
purifieth
the
soules
,
inflameth
the
affections
,
enlighteneth
the
vnderstandinge
,
and
so
softeneth
the
heart
of
the
hearer
,
that
it
frameth
it
sitt
to
all
goodnes
.
Which
noe
other
worde
or
worke
deuised
by
the
witt
of
men
or
Angells
canne
doe
.
Where
vppon
Lactantius
speakinge
of
the
difference
betweene
the
doctrine
of
the
gentills
&
of
the
churche
,
saith
,
that
the
wisdome
of
the
Philosophers
doth
not
roote
out
vice
,
but
hide
it
:
whereas
a
fewe
precepts
of
God
,
so
change
the
whole
man
,
and
mould
him
a
newe
by
castinge
away
the
ould
,
that
one
would
not
thinke
him
to
be
the
same
.
Geue
me
a
man
that
is
wrathfull
,
euill
tougued
,
vnbridled
,
by
a
fewe
wordes
of
God
I
will
make
him
meeke
as
a
lambe
.
Geue
me
a
couetous
,
auaritious
and
tenacious
man
,
I
will
restore
him
liberall
,
and
distributinge
his
money
with
his
owne
handes
.
Geue
me
a
man
fearfull
of
sorrowe
and
death
,
he
shall
contemne
crosses
,
fires
,
dangers
,
bulls
&c.
By
one
lauer
shall
all
malice
be
expelled
,
such
is
the
force
of
diuine
wisdome
that
beinge
powered
into
the
brest
of
man
,
it
expelleth
folly
att
one
blowe
that
is
the
mother
of
all
vices
.
What
man
then
that
hath
his
hearte
thus
mollified
,
his
will
rectified
,
his
vnderstandinge
cleared
,
and
his
whole
course
suddenlie
altered
,
can
deliberatelie
doubte
of
the
scriptures
,
seinge
Christe
himselfe
teacheth
vs
thus
to
knowe
them
.
Is
anie
will
performe
the
CHAMP
.
In
whome
I
pray
you
doth
the
scripture
worke
these
effects
you
haue
here
so
industriously
numbred
vp
?
in
those
that
beleeue
them
not
to
be
true
,
or
to
be
the
worde
of
God
?
you
will
not
say
so
I
suppose
.
Why
doe
you
therefore
bring
these
arguments
to
prooue
the
scriptures
to
be
easily
knowne
to
be
god
▪
worde
,
that
they
are
manifest
of
themselues
,
and
neede
not
to
be
prooued
?
Because
you
will
euer
be
impertinent
not
knowinge
what
you
say
,
nor
what
you
shoulde
prooue
,
and
yet
are
you
so
full
of
bable
that
you
will
still
be
be
talkinge
.
If
one
shoulde
aske
your
aduise
,
howe
he
might
knowe
good
Phisicke
and
you
shoulde
say
vnto
him
,
it
is
an
easie
thinge
to
knowe
that
.
For
that
phisike
which
conforteth
nature
,
expelleth
disseases
,
and
restoreth
health
is
certainlie
good
phisicke
;
doe
you
thinke
he
shoulde
be
much
wiser
for
your
aduise
?
whatsoeuer
you
thinke
.
I
knowe
he
shoulde
be
as
wise
as
he
was
before
.
Such
is
your
directions
to
knowe
the
scripture
,
vnto
such
as
doe
not
alreadie
knowe
or
beleeue
them
.
And
seeinge
our
Sauiour
himselfe
prescribeth
as
a
necessarie
rule
to
knowe
the
scriptures
,
the
performance
of
his
fathers
will
,
before
his
doctrine
canne
be
vnderstoode
(
as
you
well
note
but
stil
against
your selfe
)
it
is
euident
that
they
are
not
so
cleare
of
themselues
nor
yett
so
easie
to
be
knowne
,
as
you
pretend
.
For
that
doctrine
which
must
first
be
practised
by
humble
obedience
,
before
it
can
be
vnderstoode
or
knowne
to
be
of
God
as
our
Sauiour
saith
of
the
scripture
,
noe
man
that
is
not
deuoyde
of
all
iudgment
wil
say
,
is
easie
to
be
knowne
euen
by
it selfe
.
PILK
.
I
might
add
all
those
arguments
which
both
the
fathers
and
schoolemen
produce
out
of
the
scriptures
themselues
to
prooue
them
the
ofspringe
of
God
,
which
if
they
be
stronge
against
gentiles
,
I
knowe
not
howe
they
should
be
weake
against
you
,
vid.
the
maiestie
of
the
doctrine
,
the
simplicitie
and
puritie
of
the
stile
,
antiquitie
of
the
bookes
,
truth
of
oracles
and
predictions
that
manie
ages
after
held
their
complement
,
with
sundrie
other
to
the
like
purpose
,
but
I
passe
by
them
and
shutt
vppe
this
pointe
with
that
speeche
of
your
Stewchus
.
CHAMP
.
You
were
well
aduised
to
passe
by
all
such
arguments
of
the
fathers
and
schoolemen
as
woulde
nothinge
serue
your
purpose
,
I
woulde
you
had
been
so
aduised
from
the
begininge
,
for
soe
shoulde
I
not
haue
hadd
the
labour
and
paynes
to
transcribe
so
manie
impertinencies
of
yours
as
I
haue
been
forced
to
doe
hitherto
.
The
arguments
which
you
here
mention
taken
by
themselues
,
are
farr
from
makinge
anie
sufficient
grounde
to
builde
our
faith
vppon
,
thoughe
they
are
probable
and
prudent
considerations
and
ioyned
with
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
tradition
,
wherby
●e
receiue
the
scriptures
,
they
are
not
without
some
force
to
persuade
the
bookes
of
the
holy
Bible
,
to
be
gods
worde
,
and
to
be
written
by
his
inspiration
.
But
take
you
experience
of
them
in
your selfe
,
and
see
whether
they
are
sufficient
to
persuade
that
the
bookes
of
Wisdome
,
Ecclesiastious
and
the
rest
receiued
generallie
by
the
whole
churche
,
and
namelie
by
the
fathers
and
schoolemen
whose
authoritie
here
you
seeme
to
vrge
)
for
canonicall
,
are
trulie
gods
worde
and
written
by
his
holy
spiritt
.
And
if
you
finde
them
not
sufficient
groundes
for
these
,
why
woulde
you
intrude
them
vppon
vs
as
sufficient
for
the
rest
▪
But
lett
vs
heare
what
you
bringe
out
of
our
Stewchus
.
PILK
.
They
which
thinke
the
authoritie
of
holy
CHAMP
.
The
whole
space
of
a
thousand
and
fiue
hundred
yeeres
geuen
you
to
take
your
testimonies
out
of
,
might
haue
sufficed
without
alleaginge
of
moderne
writers
,
and
those
o●
small
note
and
lesse
authoritie
.
Stewchus
is
an
author
not
wholly
receiued
,
and
the
booke
cited
by
you
is
put
in
the
index
of
bookes
to
be
amended
or
corrected
:
and
therefore
the
testimonie
thereof
thoughe
it
were
otherwise
most
formall
(
as
it
is
not
)
is
of
noe
authority
against
vs
.
And
truelie
I
wounder
you
are
not
ashamed
to
bring
such
stuffe
for
the
proofe
of
your
faith
and
doctrine
.
And
that
in
such
sorte
as
you
haue
lett
passe
all
other
and
made
choyce
of
this
as
of
moste
strength
and
force
.
Lett
the
iudicious
reader
nowe
iudge
by
that
which
hath
been
sayde
both
by
you
and
me
,
whether
the
scriptures
are
so
clearelie
knowne
by
themselues
and
by
theire
owne
light
,
that
they
neede
no
other
proofe
to
be
gods
worde
and
written
by
his
spiritt
.
And
whether
it
he
a
needles
or
disorderlie
thinge
for
him
that
pretendeth
to
prooue
all
the
points
of
his
faith
by
holy
scripture
,
to
prooue
first
that
there
is
a
holie
scripture
,
and
then
to
prooue
in
what
bookes
it
is
contayned
.
And
lastlie
whether
because
you
(
refusinge
traditions
and
the
churches
authoritie
,
by
which
onlie
the
holy
scriptures
are
knowne
cannot
prooue
the
scriptures
to
be
such
,
and
therefore
receiuinge
them
vpon
the
credit
of
your
owne
fancie
,
which
consequentlie
must
be
the
fundamentall
rule
of
your
whole
Faith
,
doe
not
recurre
to
that
shifte
,
to
say
that
the
scriptures
are
so
euident
of
themselues
,
that
they
neede
noe
other
proofe
or
testimonie
but
themselues
.
MANVALL
SECTION
7.
And
here
occur
by
the
way
two
thinges
worthy
of
note
.
The
one
that
the
scripture
cannot
be
an
vniuersall
rule
of
our
faith
,
seeinge
somethinges
are
to
be
beleeued
without
proofe
of
scripture
,
as
are
(
for
example
)
that
there
is
an
holy
scripture
,
contayninge
gods
worde
and
reuelation
,
and
that
these
&
these
bookes
be
such
,
therefore
of
necessitie
must
there
be
some
other
rule
of
our
faith
more
vniuersall
then
the
scriptures
,
and
consequentlie
before
the
scriptures
.
And
this
cannot
be
but
the
authoritie
of
gods
churche
,
which
is
clearely
S.
August
:
doctrine
,
who
was
not
a
frayde
to
say
:
I
woulde
not
beleeue
the
Gospell
,
but
that
the
authoritie
of
the
church
doth
moue
me
.
Seeinge
therefore
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
is
a
sufficient
motiue
for
vs
to
beleeue
what
is
scripture
,
why
shoulde
it
not
haue
the
like
authoritie
with
vs
in
other
points
of
faith
?
which
is
also
S.
Aug:
argument
in
the
same
place
:
but
I
will
notwithstandinge
satisfie
our
aduersaries
in
theire
owne
humour
.
PILK
.
Your
former
grounde
beinge
a
bedd
of
sande
,
that
scriptures
cannott
be
prooued
by
scriptures
,
these
conclusions
that
you
doe
builde
vppon
it
,
doe
of
themselues
fall
to
the
grounde
.
CHAMP
.
When
you
shall
,
followinge
your
principles
,
proue
out
of
the
scripture
,
either
that
there
is
a
scripture
or
in
what
bookes
it
is
contayned
,
without
supposinge
some
scripture
without
proofe
,
then
may
you
terme
my
grounde
,
to
be
a
bedd
of
sande
,
and
I
will
also
beleeue
it
so
to
be
.
But
till
then
,
I
will
esteeme
it
a
rock
that
breaketh
all
your
batteries
like
as
if
they
were
balls
of
sande
caste
against
a
brasen
wall
.
And
therefore
the
conclusions
built
vppon
it
,
will
neither
of
themselues
,
nor
yett
by
all
your
forces
,
fall
to
the
grounde
but
will
stande
firme
and
stronge
.
PILK
.
First
that
the
scriptures
are
not
the
vniuersall
rule
of
faith
,
a
position
so
derogatorie
to
the
CHAMP
.
Till
it
be
prooued
by
expresse
scripture
,
that
the
scriptures
are
the
vniuersall
rule
of
our
saith
,
or
that
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
but
that
which
is
prooued
by
scripture
.
you
cannot
trulie
say
that
my
position
is
derogatorie
to
the
Testament
of
Christ
.
And
because
it
can
neuer
be
prooued
by
scripture
,
that
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
but
that
which
is
prooued
by
expresse
scripture
,
your
position
is
hereticall
,
the
contrarie
thereof
beinge
clearelie
testified
by
the
scripture
,
as
shall
appeare
in
the
first
and
seconde
controuersie
;
vnto
which
places
I
will
referr
you
for
answere
to
your
arguments
,
(
which
you
there
repeate
)
as
the
more
proper
place
.
Onlie
I
will
not
omitte
to
tell
you
here
,
that
you
loose
your
creditt
.
with
al
men
by
vtteringe
such
knowne
vntruthes
as
,
that
the
best
of
our
diuines
doe
graunte
the
●ast
resolution
of
our
faith
to
●ee
into
the
scriptures
onlie
You
shoulde
haue
named
some
one
author
att
least
,
to
haue
geuen
creditt
to
your
assertion
.
PILK
.
What
then
is
the
rule
that
is
more
vniuersall
?
The
authoritie
of
the
churche
say
you
;
Traditions
saith
Bellarmine
,
the
faith
of
the
CHAMP
.
There
is
as
much
diuersitie
or
discorde
betweene
all
these
sayinges
of
ours
,
as
a
goode
Logician
would
finde
betweene
viuens
,
●en●●●ns
,
〈◊〉
in●e●●●●ns
,
which
being
●ubalterna
,
are
not
in
anie
mans
brayne
dispara●a
or
opposita
vnles
in
yours
,
which
is
often
contrarie
to
it selfe
.
Both
tradtions
therefore
and
the
authority
of
the
churche
,
are
more
vniuersal
rules
than
the
scriptures
;
And
thoughe
the
one
of
them
is
more
vniuersall
and
before
the
other
,
yet
neither
of
them
is
summa
or
prima
veritas
,
as
you
most
ignorantlie
affirme
in
the
precedent
section
,
of
the
scriptures
,
for
the
which
intollerable
ignorance
you
are
iustlie
reprehended
there
)
nor
either
of
them
is
beleeued
for
it selfe
,
but
for
the
testimonie
of
God
reuelinge
theire
veritie
who
onlie
is
beleeued
for
himselfe
,
and
his
owne
essentiall
truth
and
veritie
.
And
therefore
your
childishe
inference
of
changinge
Bethell
into
Bethanan
,
is
a
ridiculous
conclusion
of
your
owne
ignorant
premisses
,
or
a
dreame
of
your
owne
idle
and
emptie
braine
.
But
you
will
bringe
more
solid
stuffe
hereafter
,
lett
vs
heare
the
rest
.
PILK
.
Besides
,
if
it
be
demaunded
from
whence
the
churche
hath
an●e
such
authoritie
,
it
is
answered
from
the
scriptures
,
for
which
are
produced
sundrie
testimonies
;
He
that
heareth
you
heareth
me
,
Goe
teach
all
nations
.
If
then
the
life
of
this
authoritie
be
maintayned
and
supported
by
the
scriptures
,
they
are
the
rule
and
measure
of
her
,
and
so
before
her
,
and
not
reciprocalli●
measured
by
her
.
CHAMP
.
When
it
is
demanded
by
such
as
pretend
to
beleeue
the
scriptures
(
as
you
make
shewe
to
doe
and
yett
deny
the
churches
Authoritie
,
as
you
heretically
doe
,
what
proofe
there
is
of
the
churches
authority
,
the
scriptures
are
rightlie
produced
,
for
the
proofe
thereof
,
not
that
thee
hath
her
authoritie
from
the
scriptures
(
as
you
either
ignorantlie
or
negligentlie
say
)
for
her
authoritie
she
hath
from
God
.
The
authour
of
all
power
and
authoritie
;
but
that
this
authoritie
i●
testified
by
the
scripture
.
And
maruell
it
is
to
me
,
that
you
your selfe
findinge
and
feelinge
such
testimonie
of
holy
scripture
for
the
churches
authoritie
as
you
cite
in
this
place
,
doe
not
yett
cease
to
impugne
it
.
But
the
truth
is
,
you
beleeue
and
follow
the
scriptures
,
so
farr
as
your selfe
list
onlie
,
and
noe
farther
.
On
the
other
side
when
it
is
demaunded
by
such
as
belieue
neither
scriptures
nor
the
churche
,
but
yett
seeke
some
groundes
of
christian
beliefe
,
it
woulde
be
a
ridiculous
thinge
to
prooue
the
church
by
the
scriptures
seinge
they
are
written
,
taught
,
and
preached
,
by
the
ministrie
of
men
,
whereof
the
church
consisteth
,
and
did
consist
many
hundreds
of
yeeres
before
there
were
anie
scriptures
att
all
.
In
this
case
therefor
it
is
cleare
,
that
the
church
hath
other
proofe
then
from
the
scriptures
,
and
before
the
scriptures
,
which
in
that
case
must
be
prooued
by
the
churche
.
But
what
this
proofe
is
and
whence
it
is
taken
,
pertayneth
not
to
this
place
to
say
.
Yet
whatsoeuer
it
be
it
is
manifest
that
in
this
case
,
the
proofe
&
knowledg
of
the
church
,
must
goe
before
the
proofe
and
knowledge
of
the
scriptures
,
as
beinge
before
it
,
and
leadinge
vnto
it
,
and
not
the
contrarie
.
PILK
.
This
is
yett
more
cleare
by
the
verie
proposition
graunted
by
Papists
,
that
the
scripture
is
the
rule
,
whereof
the
sence
is
,
that
the
sence
and
doctrine
,
not
the
letters
and
characters
are
this
rule
.
Nowe
lett
our
aduersaries
iudge
whether
is
more
auncient
,
the
doctrine
of
the
church
which
is
the
seede
of
the
churche
,
or
the
church
which
is
begotten
of
it
.
CHAMP
.
You
either
ignorantlie
mistake
,
or
wilfullie
inuert
the
question
,
which
is
not
whether
the
holy
scriptures
be
a
rule
of
faith
,
which
noe
christian
denieth
,
but
whether
it
be
the
first
and
most
vniuersall
rule
thereof
.
And
this
none
but
heretikes
that
denie
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
veritie
of
traditions
(
both
which
notwithstandinge
are
expresselie
testified
by
holy
scripture
▪
did
euer
affirme
.
And
whether
the
church
be
more
auncient
then
the
scriptures
,
if
you
doubte
,
as
you
seeme
to
doe
,
yea
and
to
affirme
the
contrarie
,
I
shall
esteeme
you
either
very
senceles
,
or
verie
wilfull
and
pe●uers
;
the
scriptures
hauinge
been
written
by
the
churche
,
vnles
peraduenture
by
the
scriptures
,
or
doctrine
of
the
scriptures
,
you
vnderstande
the
worde
of
God
written
in
the
hearts
of
men
,
by
the
immediate
reuelation
of
the
holy
Ghost
,
and
by
them
deliuered
by
worde
of
mouth
the
one
to
the
other
,
vntill
Moises
,
who
was
the
first
that
euer
committed
anie
thinge
to
writinge
.
If
you
take
the
scriptures
in
this
sence
,
that
which
you
meane
is
true
;
and
if
further
you
acknowledge
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
veritie
of
Tradition
,
in
deliueringe
this
doctrine
and
teachinge
it
one
to
another
by
worde
of
mouth
before
it
was
written
,
our
controuersie
is
at
an
end
.
The
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
traditions
being
euidentlie
prooued
to
goe
before
the
scriptures
,
and
consequentlie
to
be
a
more
vniuersall
rule
of
faith
then
the
scriptures
.
PILK
.
So
that
as
your
first
conclusion
is
a
manifest
vntruth
,
that
there
is
a
more
vniuersall
rule
of
faith
then
the
scriptures
;
So
the
second
is
a
dull
and
heauie
conceipt
,
that
the
churche
shoulde
be
more
auncient
and
before
them
.
CHAMP
.
If
either
my
first
conclusion
(
as
you
tearme
it
)
be
a
manifest
vntruth
,
or
my
second
a
dull
conceipt
,
why
doe
you
doombelie
denie
it
,
without
anie
proofe
or
reason
att
all
?
Especiallie
seinge
I
prooued
the
first
by
cleare
instance
,
as
you
may
see
,
and
the
seconde
is
but
a
sequell
or
necessarie
deduction
of
the
first
?
If
it
be
enough
for
you
to
say
that
your
aduersaries
conclusions
thoughe
prooued
by
manifest
instance
,
are
manifest
vntruthes
,
you
may
well
hope
to
carrie
away
the
bucklers
from
a
farr
greater
clerke
then
euer
I
shall
pretende
to
be
.
For
you
knowe
that
Aristotles
asse
is
able
to
denie
more
,
then
his
mayster
is
able
to
prooue
.
PILK
.
Peruse
the
fathers
in
whose
workes
you
seeme
to
be
conuersant
,
and
nominate
one
that
hath
taught
,
either
that
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
is
a
more
vniuersall
rule
,
or
that
she
was
before
theire
doctrine
;
which
are
the
two
cheefest
stoopes
of
your
religion
,
whereas
in
them
I
finde
that
the
scriptures
is
the
rule
,
and
they
nominate
nothinge
else
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
had
weighed
S.
Aug:
testimonie
which
the
manuall
setteth
downe
in
this
place
(
and
which
you
vainlie
strugle
to
auoyde
)
with
equall
iudgment
,
you
woulde
not
haue
putte
me
to
further
search
of
the
fathers
for
proofe
of
that
which
I
say
.
You
shall
either
deliuer
your selfe
better
from
S.
Aug:
authoritie
then
here
you
haue
donne
,
or
else
you
shall
be
forced
to
swallowe
it
downe
as
a
bitter
,
but
a
wholsome
pill
against
your
heresie
.
Neither
will
I
take
the
taxe
at
your
hande
to
searche
further
the
fathers
for
this
purpose
,
till
I
see
this
one
better
satisfied
.
And
you
fight
against
your
owne
shaddowe
when
you
labour
to
prooue
by
the
fathers
,
that
the
scriptures
are
a
rule
of
our
faith
,
your
aduersaries
denyinge
it
not
,
as
I
toulde
you
before
.
But
you
loue
to
shewe
your
strength
when
none
resisteth
you
.
And
that
the
fathers
nominate
no
other
rule
,
is
as
true
as
the
rest
of
your
sayinges
.
For
seeinge
they
auouch
so
plainlie
and
frequentlie
traditions
,
and
the
churches
authoritie
as
you
knowe
they
doe
,
howe
canne
you
say
that
they
name
noe
other
rule
?
PILK
.
The
Ecclesiasticall
rule
,
is
the
consent
and
conspiration
of
the
old
and
newe
testament
saith
Clemens
.
The
holy
scripture
doth
prefixe
vnto
vs
the
rule
of
our
faith
saith
S.
Aug.
CHAMP
.
I
knowe
not
whether
I
shoulde
attribute
the
citinge
of
this
authoritie
out
of
Clemens
,
to
your
ignoraunce
or
to
your
fraude
and
desire
to
deceiue
by
it
your
reader
,
it
is
so
impertinent
to
your
purpose
.
He
sayinge
onlie
that
it
is
the
Ecclesiasticall
rule
of
interpretinge
scriptures
to
make
the
prophetts
and
lawe
to
accorde
with
the
testament
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
.
Which
what
it
maketh
to
prooue
the
scriptures
to
be
the
sole
rule
of
faith
I
cannot
conceiue
.
S.
Aug.
you
cite
so
at
large
that
I
knowe
not
where
to
look
for
the
place
by
you
alleaged
,
to
see
whether
it
be
not
as
pertinentlie
alleaged
as
the
other
is
.
And
seinge
the
scriptures
doe
send
vs
to
our
pastours
to
learne
our
faith
,
and
to
the
churche
commandinge
vs
to
heare
it
,
it
may
well
be
sayde
to
prefixe
vnto
vs
the
rule
of
our
faith
,
and
yett
exclude
not
the
churches
authoritie
,
for
the
which
we
nowe
contende
.
So
that
this
place
is
as
fitt
for
your
purpose
as
the
other
.
PILK
.
The
churche
goeth
not
out
of
her
boundes
,
that
is
the
holy
scriptures
saith
Ierome
.
And
least
you
might
thinke
it
is
the
rule
,
but
not
the
onlie
rule
;
Vincentius
addeth
the
sole
rule
of
the
scriptures
is
sufficient
to
all
thinges
.
CHAMP
.
The
churche
followinge
the
authoritie
of
tradition
,
and
the
iudgment
of
the
churche
in
all
matters
of
saith
and
manners
which
the
scriptures
doe
expresslie
geue
testimonie
and
warrant
vnto
,
doth
not
goe
out
of
the
boundes
of
the
scriptures
.
In
citinge
Vincentius
you
vse
your
accustomed
fraude
,
leauinge
out
the
wordes
goinge
before
.
Which
are
so
expresslie
against
your
purpose
,
that
had
you
sett
them
downe
,
they
had
been
sufficient
to
confute
your
errours
in
this
pointe
,
they
are
these
.
We
haue
sayde
before
,
ha●
this
alwayes
hath
been
,
and
is
also
at
this
day
the
custome
of
Catholikes
,
to
prooue
the
truth
of
fayth
by
these
two
meanes
.
First
by
the
authoritie
of
diuine
Canon
;
then
by
tradition
of
the
Catholike
churche
,
not
because
the
Canon
alone
is
not
sufficient
of
it selfe
to
all
thinges
;
but
&c.
Now
lett
the
iudicious
reader
iudge
whether
this
holy
father
make
the
scriptures
the
sole
rule
of
faith
or
noe
.
When
he
saith
,
the
sacred
Canon
is
sufficient
to
all
thinges
,
he
meaneth
that
it
is
sufficient
to
al
thinges
that
is
necessarie
to
euerie
mans
saluation
,
or
to
euerie
man
to
beleeue
.
For
these
thinges
are
not
many
and
sufficientlie
expressed
in
the
holy
scripture
.
Or
it
is
sufficient
beinge
lefte
in
the
hands
of
the
church
to
expound
and
interprete
it
;
but
it
is
not
sufficient
for
euerie
one
to
picke
his
faith
and
beleefe
out
of
.
And
consequentlie
another
rule
,
to
witt
the
churches
authoritie
in
vnderstandinge
and
interpretinge
the
scriptures
is
necessarie
,
as
the
same
father
teacheth
in
these
expresse
wordes
.
Some
man
may
peraduenture
aske
,
for
asmuch
as
the
Canon
of
the
scriptures
is
persect
and
in
all
pointes
verie
sufficient
in
it selfe
,
what
neede
is
there
to
ioyne
thereunto
the
authoritie
of
the
Ecclesiasticall
vnderstandinge
,
for
this
cause
surelie
,
for
that
all
take
not
the
holy
scriptures
in
the
same
sence
,
because
of
the
deepnes
thereof
:
but
the
sayinges
thereof
some
interprete
one
way
,
and
some
another
,
so
that
there
may
almoste
as
manie
sences
be
picked
out
of
it
,
as
there
be
men
.
For
Nouatian
doth
expounde
it
one
way
,
and
Sabellius
another
way
,
otherwise
Arrius
,
Eunomius
,
Macedonius
,
otherwayes
Photinus
,
Apollinaris
,
Priscillianus
,
otherwayes
Iouinian
,
Pelagius
,
Celestus
,
lastlie
otherwayes
Victorius
.
Thus
farr
he
who
as
you
see
expresselie
admitteth
as
necessarie
the
rule
of
Ecclesiasticall
authoritie
,
besides
the
scriptures
which
is
that
we
contend
aboute
.
PILK
.
This
clearelie
is
S.
Aug.
doctrine
,
and
the
rest
of
the
fathers
&
not
your
crooked
inference
,
that
the
authority
of
the
churche
is
a
more
vniuersall
and
more
auncient
rule
then
the
scriptures
,
for
where
hath
he
anie
word
to
this
purpose
?
I
woulde
not
haue
beleeued
the
gospel
,
except
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
had
moued
me
,
are
too
weake
to
inserr
any
such
like
conclusion
,
thoughe
we
admitte
them
in
your
corrupt
translation
.
For
it
is
plaine
,
he
speaketh
not
these
wordes
of
the
present
tyme
,
when
he
was
a
Bishoppe
as
you
reade
them
,
but
of
the
tyme
past
when
he
was
a
Manichy
.
Beinge
a
Catholicke
&
a
Bishoppe
when
he
writte
that
booke
,
he
had
farr
other
motiues
to
beleeue
the
Gospell
then
the
authority
of
the
church
which
here
he
alone
nameth
.
Take
one
place
for
a
thousande
,
I
take
my
conscience
to
witnes
(
Honoratus
)
and
God
that
dwelleth
in
pure
myndes
,
that
I
thinke
nothinge
more
wise
,
chaste
,
religious
,
then
all
these
scriptures
,
which
the
catholicke
churche
retayneth
vnder
the
name
of
the
olde
and
new
testament
,
I
knowe
thou
wounderest
,
but
I
cannot
d●ssemble
;
I
was
otherwise
persuaded
.
Howsoeuer
then
beinge
an
hereticke
,
he
thought
of
the
scriptures
,
yett
nowe
become
a
catholicke
he
beleeued
them
,
for
that
prudence
chastitie
pietie
which
he
founde
in
them
.
CHAMP
.
Nowe
lett
vs
see
howe
you
will
quitte
your selfe
of
the
authority
of
S.
Aug:
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
;
you
say
it
is
too
weake
to
serue
our
turne
,
because
he
spake
not
of
the
present
tyme
when
he
was
Byshoppe
and
wrote
that
booke
,
but
when
he
was
a
Manichie
(
A
poore
and
silie
shifte
God
wotte
)
lett
his
owne
wordes
witnes
what
his
meaning
is
.
Ego
Euangelio
non
crederem
,
nisi
me
Ecclesi
〈…〉
s
commoueret
I
woulde
not
beleeue
the
Gospell
,
but
that
the
churches
authority
did
moue
me
;
He
saith
not
non
credidissem
nisi
commo●isset
I
had
not
beleeued
had
not
the
authoritie
moued
me
,
as
you
corruptlie
translate
,
or
if
I
doe
produce
your
coppie
,
for
myne
hath
crederem
&
commoueret
which
if
you
will
translate
had
beleeued
and
had
moued
,
you
shall
be
putt
to
your
Accidence
againe
.
But
be
it
that
he
spake
of
himselfe
as
being
a
Manichie
,
(
which
is
as
true
as
that
he
was
a
Manichie
when
he
wrote
this
)
this
is
so
far
from
fauoringe
your
cause
,
that
it
maketh
it
much
worse
.
For
if
the
churches
authoritie
had
force
to
moue
an
hereticke
to
beleeue
the
gospell
,
what
man
not
depriued
of
common
sence
will
denie
,
but
it
hath
at
least
the
like
force
with
a
catholike
?
But
you
say
that
S.
Aug:
beinge
a
catholike
,
had
other
motiues
to
beleeue
the
scriptures
then
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
beit
so
,
what
will
you
inferre
thereof
for
your
purpose
,
or
against
me
?
nothinge
att
all
,
yea
the
testimonie
alleaged
by
you
out
of
him
,
doth
sufficiently
witnes
that
the
authority
of
the
church
did
still
moue
him
to
beleeue
the
scriptures
,
seeing
he
restraineth
himselfe
to
those
scriptures
which
the
catholike
churche
receiueth
and
retayneth
.
PILK
.
Againe
if
by
the
churche
you
meane
the
present
church
,
and
by
the
present
church
her
rulers
and
guides
as
your
consorts
vsuallie
doe
,
then
is
it
most
absurde
to
thinke
that
S.
August
:
and
the
rest
of
the
Bishoppes
of
his
tyme
beleeued
the
gospell
for
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
for
that
had
been
for
theire
owne
authoritie
,
and
so
they
had
beleeued
the
gospell
for
themselues
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
hadd
but
one
dramme
of
good
Logicke
,
you
could
not
but
haue
seene
your
argument
to
haue
been
most
idle
,
and
not
beseeminge
a
doctor
of
diuinitie
.
For
no
nouice
in
logicke
but
knoweth
,
that
an
argument
taken
from
all
the
partes
together
,
or
collectiue
to
euerie
one
in
seuerall
or
particular
,
concludeth
nothinge
affirmatiuelie
.
Such
an
one
is
yours
beinge
this
is
substance
.
S.
Aug.
and
the
rest
of
the
bishoppes
beleeue
the
Gospell
for
the
authoritie
of
the
present
churche
;
but
S.
Aug.
and
the
rest
of
the
Bishoppes
are
the
present
churche
,
ergo
they
beleeue
the
Gospell
for
themselues
.
Or
if
you
doe
not
yett
see
your
owne
seelines
in
this
argument
,
compare
it
with
this
and
peraduenture
you
will
espie
it
.
Richarde
Pilkinton
and
the
rest
of
the
ministers
of
the
churche
of
Englande
beleeue
the
39.
articles
to
be
good
and
lawfull
for
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
of
Englande
.
But
Richarde
Pilkinton
and
the
rest
of
the
ministers
are
the
churche
of
Englande
,
ergo
they
beleeue
the
39.
articles
for
themselues
.
PILK
.
But
if
diuers
papists
be
not
deceiued
S.
Aug.
meaneth
not
the
present
churche
,
but
the
churche
which
was
in
the
Apostles
tyme
,
that
sawe
Christs
miracles
,
and
heard
his
preachinge
,
and
so
this
speach
of
S.
August
helpeth
you
nothinge
,
excepte
you
canne
prooue
that
the
present
churche
,
hath
the
same
authoritie
with
the
Apostles
,
which
your
owne
Driedo
flathe
denieth
.
Ecclesia
primitiua
propter
collegium
Apostolorum
,
ad
tradendam
nouam
nostrae
fidei
Doctrinam
,
maioris
erat
gratiae
,
maiorisque
authoritatis
quam
Ecclesia
quae
nunc
est
.
Accordinge
to
the
Doctrine
of
S.
August
.
and
Hierome
.
CHAMP
.
Thoughe
S.
Aug.
shoulde
meane
the
churche
in
the
Apostles
tyme
excludinge
the
present
churche
(
which
is
false
)
yett
woulde
this
ouerthrowe
your
cause
.
For
whence
coulde
he
receiue
the
testimonie
of
that
churche
,
but
by
authoritie
of
the
churches
present
and
precedent
?
And
yett
this
serueth
sufficientlie
my
turne
to
prooue
some
other
rule
of
beleefe
besides
and
before
the
scriptures
,
which
is
our
controuersie
here
.
That
which
you
alleage
out
of
our
Driedo
doth
not
prooue
the
present
churche
to
be
lesse
infallible
in
her
iudgment
in
matters
of
faith
,
then
the
churche
in
the
Apostles
tyme
,
neither
doth
anie
catholicke
say
so
.
For
seinge
it
is
gouerned
by
the
same
spirit
of
truth
which
was
promised
shoulde
remaine
with
her
for
euer
,
shee
cannot
be
more
subiect
to
errour
nowe
,
then
shee
was
at
that
tyme
.
Therfore
that
which
Driedo
saith
is
,
that
the
primatiue
churche
by
reason
of
the
colledge
of
the
Apostles
.
had
power
to
deliuer
newe
doctrine
of
faith
which
the
succedinge
church
hath
not
;
but
hath
infallible
authoritie
to
teache
that
faith
which
shee
receaued
of
the
Apostles
.
And
this
you
might
easilie
haue
seene
to
haue
been
Driedoes
Doctrine
,
if
you
had
taken
but
anie
ordinarie
heede
to
his
wordes
.
PILK
.
Neuertheles
to
passe
by
this
&
to
graunte
that
S.
Augustin
,
a
Catholicke
and
a
Bishoppe
,
woulde
not
beleeue
the
Gospell
,
but
that
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
moued
him
;
is
euerie
motiue
to
beleeue
,
a
rule
of
faith
?
Nothinge
lesse
.
For
the
rule
is
that
whereunto
faith
is
lastlie
resolued
,
which
is
not
into
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
as
your
best
diuines
teach
,
but
into
the
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
You
might
well
haue
past
by
all
this
indeede
,
and
also
that
which
followeth
,
had
you
not
rather
chosen
to
fil
your
paper
with
your
impertinencies
,
to
the
publishinge
of
your
owne
small
iudgement
.
If
you
take
the
rule
of
●aith
so
strictlie
as
it
contayneth
onlie
that
whereunto
faith
is
lastlie
resolued
,
you
will
make
onlie
God
reuelinge
his
verities
to
be
the
rule
of
faith
,
and
then
you
must
exclude
not
onlie
the
churche
but
the
scriptures
also
.
But
if
you
take
it
for
a
true
ground
of
beleefe
,
then
that
testimonie
which
so
moueth
to
faith
as
it
ingendreth
faith
in
vs
,
may
trulie
be
sayde
to
be
a
rule
of
faith
,
&
such
a
motiue
S.
Aug:
saith
the
churche
is
.
PILK
.
And
there
vppon
Cameracensis
speakinge
of
this
place
of
S.
Aug:
saith
,
that
it
proueth
not
that
he
beleeued
the
gospell
thoroughe
the
churches
authoritie
,
as
by
a
Theologicall
principle
,
whereby
the
gospell
might
be
prooued
true
,
but
onlie
as
by
a
cause
mouinge
him
to
creditt
it
,
as
if
he
shoulde
say
,
I
woulde
not
beleeue
the
gospell
vnles
the
holynes
of
the
churche
or
Christes
miracles
did
moue
me
.
In
which
sayinge
thoughe
some
cause
of
his
beleeuinge
be
assigned
,
yet
no
former
principle
is
touched
whose
creditt
might
be
the
cause
why
the
gospell
shoulde
be
beleeued
.
CHAMP
.
It
appeareth
well
you
vnderstande
not
what
Cameracensis
saith
,
or
else
that
you
care
not
what
you
say
,
so
that
you
say
somethinge
.
He
saith
the
scriptures
are
not
prooued
by
the
authority
of
the
churche
as
by
a
Theologicall
principle
or
argument
ab
intrinseco
but
as
a
motiue
from
authority
or
ab
extrinseco
,
which
is
that
all
men
say
,
and
which
I
only
desire
to
prooue
by
S.
Augustines
testimonie
.
For
if
the
church
be
a
motiue
,
to
beleeue
the
scriptures
,
it
must
necessarilie
be
before
the
scriptures
,
and
consequentlie
be
a
more
vniuersall
rule
,
cause
or
motiue
of
faith
and
beleefe
then
the
scriptures
.
PILK
.
Bellarmine
saith
,
that
S.
Aug.
speaketh
these
wordes
of
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
as
of
a
cause
propoundinge
what
is
to
be
beleeued
,
and
not
of
the
foundation
of
faith
.
But
the
proposition
of
the
churche
is
not
the
rule
and
resolution
of
faith
,
but
onlie
a
condition
requisite
of
beleeuinge
as
Valent.
teacheth
in
22.
tom.
3.
de
obiecto
fidei
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
a
most
irkesome
and
importunate
thinge
to
haue
to
doe
with
with
an
ignorant
aduersarie
,
that
knoweth
not
what
he
shoulde
either
prooue
or
denie
.
Such
an
one
you
shewe
your selfe
to
be
.
For
if
you
take
from
the
scripture
which
you
trulie
teache
to
be
a
rule
of
our
faith
,
the
authoritie
to
propose
,
manifest
,
and
testify
articles
of
beleefe
,
see
howe
you
will
make
it
a
rule
of
faith
.
Seeinge
therefore
you
geue
to
the
churche
these
thinges
without
which
the
scriptures
are
not
a
rule
of
faith
,
why
should
you
deny
it
to
be
also
a
rule
of
faith
?
But
the
churche
(
you
say
)
is
not
the
foundation
or
resolution
of
faith
(
I
speake
in
your
owne
phrase
thoughe
improperlie
that
you
may
vnderstande
)
and
therfore
is
it
not
anie
rule
thereof
.
If
this
argument
conclude
anie
thinge
,
it
will
also
prooue
the
scriptures
to
be
noe
rule
of
faith
.
For
it
is
neither
foundation
,
nor
resolution
of
faith
,
if
you
vnderstande
the
first
and
chiefe
foundation
,
or
last
resolution
(
as
I
tould
you
before
)
vnles
you
will
make
it
to
be
God
himselfe
.
But
if
you
take
foundation
for
that
which
doth
grounde
our
faith
in
a
certaine
and
sure
kinde
of
infallible
testimonie
,
in
which
sence
al
men
speake
,
that
knowe
what
they
speake
,
them
are
both
the
scriptures
and
the
churche
also
foundations
and
groundes
of
our
faith
.
PILK
.
And
surelie
if
.
S.
Aug
,
had
meant
that
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
had
beene
this
rule
which
is
your
inference
,
he
had
excluded
all
other
rules
.
For
he
that
saith
,
I
would
not
beleeue
excepte
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
moued
me
,
establisheth
one
cause
,
remoueth
the
rest
.
But
this
none
of
you
dare
accorde
vnto
,
&
is
as
farr
from
S.
Aug.
meaninge
as
your
next
wordes
are
from
truth
.
If
therefore
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
be
a
sufficient
motiue
,
for
a
motiue
it
is
,
which
none
of
vs
euer
denyed
,
but
that
it
is
a
sufficient
motiue
,
neither
canne
you
prooue
,
nor
yett
S.
August
.
anie
where
auoucheth
.
CHAMP
.
S.
Aug.
wordes
(
which
are
to
be
beleeued
before
your
bare
negation
are
most
cleare
,
that
without
the
testimonie
or
authoritie
of
the
churche
he
hadd
not
beleeued
the
Gospell
,
and
consequentlie
that
the
churche
was
cause
,
rule
,
and
motiue
of
his
beleefe
,
not
in
that
degree
that
God
is
the
rule
or
foundation
of
our
faith
;
for
so
we
shoulde
make
S
Aug.
as
sencelesse
as
Mr.
Pilkinton
,
but
in
the
like
kinde
or
degree
that
the
scriptures
are
,
but
yett
before
the
scriptures
,
because
he
beleeued
them
for
the
churches
authoritie
.
And
therefore
you
see
S.
Aug.
to
say
that
which
the
Manuall
saith
;
that
there
is
some
other
rule
of
faith
before
and
more
vniuersall
then
the
scriptures
,
seeinge
that
for
it
,
and
by
it
the
scriptures
are
beleeued
.
MANVALL
SECTIO
8.
The
second
thinge
to
be
noted
is
,
that
they
which
beleeue
nothinge
but
that
which
is
prooued
by
scripture
,
are
euidentlie
conuinced
to
beleeue
nothinge
at
all
.
For
they
that
cannott
beleeue
that
there
is
an
holy
scripture
,
or
what
bookes
be
holy
scripture
,
cannott
beleeue
anie
thinge
,
because
it
is
prooued
by
scripture
:
for
it
is
euident
that
before
they
beleeue
anie
thinge
,
because
it
is
prooued
by
scripture
,
they
must
first
beleeue
that
there
is
a
holy
scripture
,
and
what
bookes
are
scripture
.
But
they
that
beleeue
not
anie
thinge
but
that
which
is
prooued
by
scripture
,
cannot
beleeue
that
there
is
a
scripture
,
nor
what
bookes
are
holy
scripture
.
For
neither
of
these
two
canne
be
prooued
by
holy
scripture
.
Therefore
they
that
beleeue
not
anie
thinge
but
that
which
is
prooued
by
scripture
,
cannott
beleeue
anie
thinge
att
all
.
This
argument
is
a
playne
demonstration
and
compelleth
the
protestants
either
to
confesse
that
they
haue
noe
faith
att
all
,
or
to
acknowledge
this
their
position
to
witt
,
that
nothinge
ought
or
can
rightlie
be
beleeued
,
but
that
which
may
be
prooued
by
scripture
,
to
acknowledge
I
say
this
position
,
to
be
false
:
which
notwithstandinge
is
one
mayne
grounde
of
all
theire
religion
.
PILK
.
When
a
souldier
that
killed
Marius
came
to
cutt
of
his
head
,
he
drewe
out
his
sworde
and
told
him
(
hie
est
gladius
quem
ipse
fecisti
)
for
Marius
formerlie
had
been
a
cutter
.
The
groundes
that
you
haue
layde
,
cutt
the
throate
of
your
faith
;
but
raseth
not
the
skinne
of
the
protestants
.
For
I
haue
shewed
before
that
scriptures
doe
sufficiently
prooue
themselues
to
be
the
worde
of
God
,
and
these
and
these
bookes
to
be
such
,
whereon
it
followeth
your
conuincinge
demonstration
that
protestants
beleeue
nothinge
att
all
,
to
be
a
windy
friuoulous
discourse
,
whereas
such
conclusions
may
be
drawne
from
your
principles
,
as
will
prooue
(
vulnera
in
capite
canis
)
you
will
not
easilie
licke
them
hole
.
CHAMP
.
Remoue
the
sworde
first
from
your
owne
throate
whi●h●●
presseth
to
harde
,
and
after
may
you
attempt
to
pietie
your
aduersarie
with
it
.
You
haue
hitherto
made
a
〈…〉
able
shewe
of
anie
proofe
,
but
of
your
owne
in
re●lible
ignorance
and
impertinencie
,
ioyned
with
wilfull
stande
to
de●e●●e
your
reader
.
If
you
defend
your
pro●esta●●s
no
better
then
hitherto
you
●●●ue
,
they
will
be
euidentlie
concluded
to
belieue
nothinge
att
all
by
the
argument
proposed
,
which
〈…〉
e
you
cannott
tell
where
to
begin
to
solue
o●
an●we●e
,
you
make
a
Thrasonicall
and
glorious
sh●we
of
contempt
of
it
,
as
manie
of
yours
〈◊〉
,
and
〈…〉
elie
your
grand
maister
Calluine
when
〈…〉
most
prest
and
hath
least
to
say
for
himselfe
.
Are
you
n●●
ashamed
to
lett
myne
argument
stand
as
a
●●●phey
against
you
&
your
heresie
without
saying
one
worde
in
answere
of
it
,
idlie
supposinge
that
you
haue
sayde
somethinge
to
it
before
?
But
seeinge
you
dare
not
sett
vppon
mine
argument
to
satisfi
it
,
which
you
should
first
haue
donne
,
lett
vs
see
what
incurable
woundes
you
geue
vnto
me
out
of
myne
owne
principles
.
PILK
.
For
they
that
relie
theire
faith
vppon
humane
testimonies
originallie
,
are
conuinced
to
haue
no
faith
att
all
:
for
faith
commeth
by
hearinge
,
and
hearinge
by
the
worde
of
God
:
But
you
papists
relie
your
faith
vppon
humane
testimonies
originallie
,
when
you
ground
it
on
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
which
you
say
is
a
more
vniuersall
rule
and
more
auncient
then
the
scriptures
.
Now
then
make
the
conclusion
as
pleaseth
you
.
CHAMP
.
I
graunte
your
proposition
or
maior
,
and
deny
your
minor
.
For
where
learned
you
to
terme
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
humane
testimonie
,
seeinge
the
holy
ghost
stileth
the
churche
the
house
of
God
,
the
piller
and
grounde
of
truth
?
your
conclusion
therefore
is
blowne
away
like
a
fether
.
So
that
the
wounde
which
you
thought
woulde
prooue
so
grieuous
,
is
not
so
much
as
the
blowe
of
a
litle
childe
.
Spitt
therefore
vppon
your
handes
,
take
better
hold
,
and
strike
more
manfullie
or
else
geue
your
bill
to
another
.
But
so
hoodewinkt
you
are
either
with
ignorance
or
malice
,
that
strikinge
at
your
aduersarie
,
you
hitt
your selfe
.
For
whilst
you
say
with
S.
Paule
,
that
faith
commeth
by
hearinge
&
hearinge
by
the
worde
of
God
;
you
prooue
that
the
scripture
or
the
word
written
,
which
is
not
hearde
but
reade
;
is
not
the
first
meanes
of
our
saith
;
but
the
worde
of
God
preached
(
as
S.
Paule
sayth
in
the
same
place
)
which
was
before
the
scriptures
.
PILK
.
From
hence
commeth
all
this
warr
that
we
will
not
grounde
our
faith
vppon
the
totteringe
wall
of
humane
authoritie
as
you
doe
,
but
cleaue
fast
to
the
sacred
scriptures
beleeuinge
nothinge
(
as
Paule
taught
)
but
that
which
was
written
in
Moises
and
the
prophetts
,
which
we
reioyce
to
haue
made
the
meane
&
grounde
of
our
religion
.
CHAMP
.
A
stoute
Champion
I
wisse
,
that
after
the
first
blowe
.
and
that
a
verie
weake
one
,
casteth
downe
his
armes
,
and
thinkinge
to
ouerthrowe
his
aduersarie
with
wordes
,
falleth
to
raylinge
,
as
if
he
hoped
to
gaine
the
victorie
,
rather
by
his
stinkinge
breath
,
then
by
strength
of
hande
stroakes
.
You
hauing
been
att
the
schoole
of
the
father
of
all
falsehoode
,
haue
learned
to
call
the
churche
of
God
and
the
infallible
authoritie
thereof
,
the
totteringe
wall
of
humane
authoritie
,
which
the
holy
ghoste
by
the
mouth
of
this
Apostle
,
stileth
the
piller
and
ground
of
truth
;
wherby
as
by
manie
other
passages
you
shewe
what
honour
and
respect
you
beare
vnto
the
holy
scriptures
,
seeinge
you
dare
so
disdainfullie
debase
the
house
of
God
,
which
they
so
highelie
prise
and
extoll
.
You
farther
glorie
in
that
you
beleeue
nothinge
but
which
is
written
in
Moises
and
the
prophettes
,
whereby
you
prooue
your selfe
to
be
a
Iewe
and
no
Christian
.
Either
retract
this
Iewishe
proposition
of
yours
,
or
blotte
,
out
of
your
Bibles
the
whole
newe
testament
,
that
you
may
be
knowne
to
be
noe
Christian
,
and
that
you
may
fill
vppe
the
measure
of
your
grande
mayster
Martin
Luther
who
hath
longe
since
cast
out
diuers
bookes
out
of
the
newe
testament
,
besides
those
he
hath
reiected
out
of
the
oulde
.
You
seeme
to
father
this
your
fowle
doctrine
vppon
S.
Paule
(
thoughe
you
dayne
him
not
the
honour
of
S.
Paule
)
but
why
doe
you
not
poynte
att
the
place
where
he
teacheth
it
!
If
S.
Paule
had
been
of
this
minde
that
you
woulde
seeme
to
make
him
of
,
in
vayne
did
he
write
his
Epistells
,
&
in
vayne
did
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
and
Euangelists
write
theire
workes
.
Againe
suppose
S.
Paule
had
written
anie
such
thinge
in
his
letters
or
Epistles
,
howe
woulde
you
make
anie
man
beleeue
that
Epistle
to
be
his
,
and
therefore
to
be
canonicall
scriptures
,
vnlesse
you
will
vse
the
authoritie
of
tradition
and
the
churches
testimonie
?
All
the
witt
and
cunning
you
haue
,
yea
thoughe
you
borrowed
all
that
of
the
rest
of
the
ministers
in
the
worlde
,
will
not
shape
a
sufficient
answere
to
this
question
.
PILK
.
And
which
if
we
coulde
not
prooue
,
yett
canne
we
not
be
conuinced
to
haue
noe
faith
,
because
they
are
principles
against
which
none
dare
open
his
mouth
,
that
anie
way
woulde
haue
himselfe
to
be
counted
a
Christian
,
as
S.
Aug.
spake
.
For
as
other
artes
and
sciences
are
sufficientlie
knowne
&
credited
without
proofe
of
theire
principles
,
so
matters
diuine
are
perfectlie
and
demonstratiuelie
persuaded
vnto
vs
from
this
indemonstrable
principle
of
the
holy
scriptures
,
saith
Clemens
,
and
are
not
prooued
by
iudgment
but
comprehended
by
faith
.
CHAMP
.
Why
doe
you
say
,
(
which
i●
we
coulde
not
prooue
)
as
thoughe
you
had
some
meane
to
prooue
it
without
traditions
and
the
churches
authoritie
?
But
they
are
principle
,
(
you
say
and
therefore
not
to
be
prooued
.
The
scriptures
are
principles
of
faith
in
deede
in
a
certayne
degree
;
but
they
are
not
prime
principles
which
onlie
are
to
be
beleeued
for
themselues
without
anie
further
proofe
,
vnles
(
as
I
toulde
you
before
you
will
make
them
to
be
God
,
who
onlie
is
to
be
beleeued
for
his
owne
proper
veritie
and
all
other
verities
for
him
.
And
when
you
say
out
of
S.
Aug.
that
none
dare
open
their
mouth
against
them
that
will
be
counted
a
christian
,
I
woulde
a●ke
you
what
you
esteeme
of
your
father
in
reformation
Martin
Luther
,
whome
some
of
his
disciples
as
you
knowe
stile
the
seconde
Elias
,
the
fifte
Euangelist
,
the
second
or
thirde
person
in
heauen
after
Christe
,
who
with
a
greate
troope
of
his
schollers
,
doth
not
onlie
open
his
mouth
to
call
into
question
diuers
of
the
Apostles
writinges
,
but
absolutelie
casteth
them
out
of
the
Canon
?
will
you
censure
him
to
be
noe
christian
?
if
you
doe
you
shall
be
a
cursed
childe
of
a
more
cursed
father
.
Yea
what
will
you
thinke
of
your selfe
and
all
the
rest
of
your
crewe
,
who
cast
out
of
the
Canon
so
manie
of
those
bookes
which
S.
Aug.
whose
authoritie
you
cite
,
alwayes
esteemed
to
be
canonicall
scripture
?
See
whether
you
haue
not
pronounced
sentence
with
your
owne
mouth
against
your selfe
,
and
condemned
your selfe
to
be
noe
Christian
?
If
you
shoulde
eate
noe
bread
till
you
quitt
your selfe
of
this
indictment
,
I
dare
vndertake
to
finde
you
bread
for
sixe
pence
so
longe
as
you
liue
.
Howsoeuer
,
hereby
at
least
it
is
cleare
that
the
scriptures
are
not
such
principles
of
our
faith
as
beinge
not
prooued
to
be
written
by
the
holy
Ghost
,
may
be
doubted
of
,
and
therefore
necessarilie
require
to
be
sufficientlie
prooued
before
they
can
be
groundes
of
other
articles
of
our
faith
.
When
you
or
anie
for
you
shall
solue
this
argument
,
I
shall
esteeme
you
not
vnworthy
of
a
doctours
cap.
S.
Aug.
hath
good
reason
to
say
that
no
Christian
dare
to
open
his
mouth
against
the
scriptures
receiued
by
the
catholicke
churche
.
For
so
shoulde
he
be
worthyly
esteemed
as
a
publican
and
heathen
by
the
That
which
you
bringe
out
of
Clemens
(
were
it
as
you
sett
it
downe
)
is
nothinge
to
your
purpose
.
For
we
knowe
the
scriptures
to
be
indemonstrable
by
reason
,
but
yett
to
be
prooued
by
authoritie
,
as
all
other
articles
of
fayth
are
.
And
nowe
looke
ouer
once
more
your
cardes
and
weigh
well
with
your selfe
,
whether
this
proposition
admitted
for
true
,
which
is
one
of
your
principles
;
That
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
that
is
not
prooued
by
scriptures
,
whether
(
I
say
)
the
Manuall
doth
not
directlie
conuince
the
protestants
(
who
professe
that
they
cannot
prooue
the
scriptures
to
be
scriptures
)
to
beleeue
nothinge
at
all
.
MANVALL
SECTION
9.
But
nowe
hauinge
shewed
the
absurditie
of
theire
doctrine
in
this
point
,
I
will
ioyne
with
them
in
the
scriptures
,
as
they
themselues
doe
desire
,
obseruinge
this
methode
.
First
I
sett
downe
the
Catholicke
Romane
beleefe
in
direct
and
plaine
positions
:
then
I
bringe
in
proofe
of
it
one
two
or
more
places
of
holy
scriptures
,
citinge
the
auncient
vulgar
translation
and
often
tymes
I
add
the
testimonie
of
some
auncient
father
of
the
first
fiue
hundreth
yeeres
,
vnderstandinge
such
scriptures
as
I
cite
in
the
same
sence
and
meaninge
that
I
cite
them
for
.
Furthermore
those
fewe
places
of
scripture
,
which
seeme
to
sounde
directlie
against
the
catholicke
faith
,
I
shewe
in
breefe
howe
they
are
to
be
vnderstoode
.
And
last
of
all
I
putt
downe
the
position
contradictorie
to
the
Catholicke
doctrine
:
to
the
end
that
the
indifferent
reader
(
be
he
catholicke
or
otherwise
)
may
more
easily
iudge
whether
doctrine
hath
better
grounde
in
holy
scriptures
.
And
further
that
he
that
will
impugne
this
treatise
may
see
what
he
hath
to
prooue
,
if
he
will
prooue
anie
thinge
to
purpose
.
PILK
.
Zebull
iudged
men
to
be
shadowes
of
mountaines
;
and
you
Christian
verities
nouell
absurdities
.
But
as
Nicomachus
the
painter
answered
a
skilfull
felowe
,
that
iudged
the
picture
of
Helen
drawne
by
Zeuxes
not
to
be
beautifull
;
take
myne
eyes
saith
he
,
&
thou
wilt
th●nke
her
to
be
a
goddesse
:
So
if
you
looke
with
spiritual
eies
,
you
woulde
easilie
conceiue
them
to
be
diuine
verities
,
which
you
imagine
to
be
palbable
absurdities
.
For
lacke
whereof
you
proceede
to
beate
your
aduersaries
with
theire
owne
weapons
of
holy
scriptures
,
and
you
tell
them
howe
you
will
marshall
your
forces
.
CHAMP
.
Zebull
(
if
you
say
true
)
imagined
men
to
be
shaddowes
,
and
you
contrariwise
imagine
shaddowes
to
be
men
:
I
doubt
not
but
if
I
shoulde
take
your
eies
to
looke
vppon
your
worke
,
I
shoulde
thinke
as
you
doe
,
a
●rogge
to
be
as
faire
as
Diana
.
You
say
I
proceede
to
beate
my
aduersaries
with
their
owne
weapons
.
But
the
scriptures
are
not
mine
aduersaries
weapons
,
but
as
they
steale
them
to
impugne
the
truth
with
:
as
theeues
doe
true
mens
weapons
.
PILK
.
First
you
will
sett
downe
your
saith
in
direct
positions
.
and
that
you
haue
donne
as
streight
as
a
Rams
horne
.
CHAMP
.
Marke
you
the
crookednes
and
discouerit
,
that
others
may
see
it
besides
your selfe
.
PILK
.
Secondly
you
will
prooue
it
by
holy
scriptures
which
you
cite
to
as
good
purpose
as
the
deuill
did
against
Christ
.
CHAMP
.
Note
you
the
impertinencies
when
they
occurre
,
and
discouer
them
that
other
men
may
see
them
as
well
as
your selfe
.
PILK
.
Thirdlie
you
will
produce
them
in
the
auncient
huiusmodi
sacrificijs
promeritur
Deus
,
and
in
the
greeke
it
is
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
.
Hence
definitions
of
councels
to
proceede
from
the
holy
ghost
,
because
in
this
corrupte
false
version
it
is
read
,
the
holy
spiritt
shall
suggest
vnto
you
all
thinges
,
that
I
will
say
,
whereas
it
is
in
the
originall
that
I
haue
sayde
.
Infinite
almost
are
the
additions
,
detractions
,
deprauations
,
wherewith
this
sweet
translation
of
yours
hath
corrupted
the
fountaynes
.
That
Isodore
Clarius
woundered
at
the
negligence
of
learned
men
that
haue
not
purged
it
from
these
inumerable
errours
,
wherewith
it
swarmeth
and
wherein
himselfe
had
obserued
and
rectified
eight
thousande
places
,
and
yett
this
is
the
apparrell
wherein
you
will
sett
before
vs
the
holy
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
Take
you
here
the
counsell
the
painter
gaue
to
the
vnskilfull
censurer
of
Zeuxis
worke
,
which
you
spake
of
not
farr
before
,
and
looke
vppon
the
vulgar
translation
with
S.
Ambrose
.
S.
Aug.
S
,
Hierome
and
S.
Gregories
eyes
,
with
the
rest
of
all
the
Latine
fathers
,
who
liued
a
thousande
yeeres
before
your
heresie
was
hatched
,
whose
iudgments
are
of
more
authoritie
then
manie
Clarius
,
and
you
will
finde
it
to
be
intire
,
perfect
and
good
.
Your
exceptions
against
it
with
manie
moe
are
alreadie
answered
by
Bellarmine
,
which
answeres
shall
stande
for
good
till
you
confute
them
.
This
is
all
your
learning
,
to
repeate
olde
ouerworne
obiections
,
and
to
conceale
their
answeres
;
a
greate
peece
of
witt
I
wisse
.
PILK
.
Fowerthlie
you
will
adde
the
testimonie
of
some
auncient
father
,
whome
neuerthelesse
you
regarde
no
further
,
then
you
canne
make
them
speake
your
language
,
which
if
they
doe
not
,
you
canne
shaue
theire
lockes
,
and
scrape
theire
tounges
,
and
make
them
pronounce
Siboleth
for
Shiboleth
as
your
purginge
indexes
doe
proclayme
vnto
the
worlde
.
CHAMP
.
This
arte
of
shauinge
and
scrapinge
I
leaue
to
you
and
yours
,
who
are
so
accustomed
thereunto
that
they
cannot
deale
otherwise
.
Your
industrie
in
this
kinde
hath
been
sufficientlie
shewed
in
the
fewe
precedent
pages
.
Our
Indexes
doe
not
corrupt
the
fathers
wordes
and
sentences
,
as
you
foolishlie
or
maliciouslie
insinuate
,
but
they
note
plainlie
the
faults
of
later
writers
;
which
plaine
and
open
dealinge
if
you
would
vse
,
no
fault
would
be
found
with
you
.
PILK
.
Fiftlie
you
will
answere
,
these
scriptures
which
seeme
to
contradict
your
faith
.
Then
if
the
same
right
belonge
to
Accius
that
is
to
Titius
,
you
will
afforde
your
aduersarie
the
like
libertie
.
CHAMP
.
You
are
not
prohibited
to
vse
it
to
your
best
and
moste
aduantage
.
PILK
.
Sixtlie
you
will
sett
downe
the
contradictory
positions
,
that
the
reader
may
iudge
,
and
the
answerer
finde
what
he
hath
to
prooue
,
if
he
will
prooue
anie
thinge
to
the
purpose
.
But
some
of
these
positions
you
haue
deuised
out
of
your
owne
brayne
,
which
noe
protestant
euer
allowed
,
and
so
you
fight
with
your
owne
shadowe
,
and
then
triumph
as
Tereus
the
poet
.
Vicimus
exclamat
,
mecum
mea
vota
feruntur
.
CHAMP
.
You
haue
your
answere
to
this
in
the
refutation
of
your
rolle
of
forged
positions
.
Looke
backe
thither
and
see
whether
you
or
I
may
be
sayde
to
be
deuisers
or
forgers
of
false
positions
.
MANVALL
SECTION
10.
Who
is
to
vnderstande
,
that
though
the
protestants
doe
maintayne
the
negatiue
parte
in
almost
all
the
positions
contiouerted
betweene
them
and
the
catholikes
,
yet
is
he
not
for
all
that
not
to
be
excused
from
the
proofe
of
those
points
,
vnlesse
he
will
withall
confesse
that
in
them
the
protestants
haue
no
faith
at
all
,
but
onlie
a
meere
denyall
of
faith
.
For
faith
beinge
not
a
simple
denyinge
,
or
not
beleeuinge
,
but
a
positiue
assent
,
and
beleefe
of
such
articles
,
as
are
reuealed
vnto
vs
by
God
,
it
hath
positiue
groundes
,
whereby
it
may
and
ought
to
be
prooued
,
euen
in
those
points
which
are
negatiue
.
And
therefore
as
catholikes
doe
prooue
theire
faith
in
these
negatiue
pointes
;
that
onlie
faith
doth
not
iustifie
;
that
we
are
not
certaine
of
our
iustification
or
saluation
,
and
the
like
:
So
likewise
are
the
protestants
to
prooue
theire
faith
in
these
:
that
there
is
no
purgatorie
:
no
reall
presence
:
no
sacrifice
of
the
Masse
,
and
the
rest
;
vnles
as
is
sayde
before
they
will
confesse
,
that
they
haue
no
fayth
in
these
points
,
but
onlie
a
meere
deniall
of
faith
.
For
it
is
a
farre
different
thinge
,
not
to
beleeue
purgatorie
to
be
,
for
example
;
and
to
beleeue
purgatory
not
to
be
.
The
first
being
a
mee●e
negatiue
or
deniall
of
anie
act
of
faith
;
the
second
beinge
a
positiue
act
of
faith
of
a
negatiue
obiect
.
Hauinge
thus
aduertised
the
good
reader
of
these
fewe
thinges
,
I
leaue
thee
to
peruse
the
treatise
it selfe
,
desiringe
thee
to
expect
onlie
the
bare
positions
prooued
with
the
selfe
text
of
holy
scripture
,
and
some
fewe
fathers
,
without
anie
flourishe
of
wordes
att
all
.
The
worke
beinge
such
as
it
doth
rather
resemble
the
bones
of
a
great
bodie
tyed
together
,
with
dryed
sinewes
,
then
a
body
througlie
furnished
with
fleshe
and
other
habiliments
of
friendlie
nature
.
For
which
cause
thoughe
to
such
as
rather
respect
fashion
then
substance
,
it
may
happe
to
appeare
hideous
,
yett
to
others
of
contrarie
appetite
,
(
for
whose
contentment
it
is
speciallie
intended
)
it
will
not
peraduenture
be
iudged
altogether
without
forme
.
PILK
.
If
non
credimus
quia
non
legimus
,
bea
CHAMP
.
Non
credimus
quia
non
legimus
is
not
a
sufficient
argument
of
faith
,
but
in
such
points
only
as
are
prooued
neither
by
tradition
nor
by
scripture
,
of
which
sorte
was
the
heresie
of
Heluidius
;
denyinge
the
perpetuall
virginitie
of
the
blessed
virgin
;
which
falsitie
beinge
contrarie
to
the
receiued
tradition
of
the
whole
church
&
not
prooued
by
holy
scripture
,
was
sufficientlie
refuted
by
S.
Hierome
sayinge
;
non
credimus
quia
non
legimus
.
Which
saying
is
not
any
argument
for
the
deniall
of
such
articles
of
faith
as
are
proued
either
by
scripture
or
traditions
,
&
much
lesse
for
them
that
are
proued
by
bothe
.
PILK
.
For
S.
Paule
proouinge
Christe
to
be
aboue
the
angells
in
regarde
of
his
originall
,
that
he
is
the
sonne
of
God
.
Heb.
1.
5.
and
in
regarde
of
his
maiestie
,
that
he
sitteth
at
his
right
hande
verse
13.
taketh
his
argument
from
the
scriptures
negatiuelie
.
To
none
of
the
Angells
he
sayde
&c.
CHAMP
.
S.
Paule
taketh
not
his
negatiue
argument
from
the
scriptures
onlie
,
but
absolutly
from
all
diuine
testimonie
sayinge
.
Cui
Angeloru●
d●●●
Or
if
you
will
haue
S.
Paule
to
argue
out
of
the
scriptures
only
,
tell
me
out
of
what
scripture
he
concludeth
this
.
Nonne
omnes
suns
administratoris
spiritus
in
ministerium
missi
propter
eo●
.
oui
hereditatem
ca●iun●
salutis
?
vnles
you
will
suppose
that
for
graunted
vnto
you
,
which
is
in
controuersie
,
to
wit
that
there
i●
no
other
diuine
testimonie
but
that
which
is
written
,
this
instance
of
S.
Paules
argument
serueth
you
for
nothinge
.
PILK
.
S.
August
.
often
chargeth
the
Donatists
to
CHAMP
.
All
these
sayinges
of
the
fathers
howe
trulie
soeuer
cited
(
which
I
will
not
stande
heere
to
examine
)
doe
prooue
(
if
they
prooue
anie
thinge
,
that
you
are
bound
to
produce
positiue
testimonies
out
of
the
scriptures
for
your
negatiue
faith
,
if
you
will
be
thought
to
haue
anie
faith
att
all
in
them
,
and
not
a
meere
denyall
or
negation
of
faith
.
For
you
must
vnderstande
,
that
it
is
one
thinge
to
beleeue
that
there
is
noe
purgatorie
,
for
example
,
and
another
thinge
not
to
beleeue
that
there
is
a
purgatorie
.
The
first
beinge
a
positiue
act
of
faith
,
requiringe
also
a
positiue
testimonie
and
reuelation
of
God
,
thoughe
of
a
negatiue
article
;
the
other
is
a
mere
denyall
or
negation
of
faith
of
a
positiue
article
,
and
is
as
well
in
horses
or
asses
as
in
men
;
onlie
with
this
difference
,
that
men
are
capable
and
may
haue
the
contrarie
positiue
act
;
but
horses
and
asses
cannot
.
If
your
faith
therefore
of
the
negatiue
articles
which
you
houlde
,
be
of
the
first
kinde
,
you
are
bounde
to
prooue
it
by
positiue
testimonie
of
holy
scripture
If
it
be
onlie
of
the
second
kinde
,
then
haue
you
no
more
faith
in
these
articles
then
haue
horses
,
asses
or
other
brute
beastes
.
Nowe
to
the
fathers
testimonies
so
farr
as
they
may
seeme
to
make
anie
thinge
against
the
catholicke
doctrine
of
traditions
or
the
churches
authoritie
,
I
answere
(
supposinge
they
sounde
as
you
sett
them
downe
,
which
I
will
not
stande
to
examine
PILK
.
Therefore
concerninge
the
profe
of
our
faith
in
the
negatiue
points
of
purgatorie
,
Reall
presence
,
Sacrifice
of
the
Masse
;
sith
there
is
noe
footinge
for
them
in
the
worde
of
God
,
we
answere
with
Basill
,
that
it
is
not
faith
,
but
a
manifest
defection
from
faith
to
denie
that
which
is
written
,
or
to
bringe
in
anie
thinge
that
is
not
written
,
where
as
Christ
IESVS
our
Lorde
saith
,
my
sheepe
heare
my
voice
.
CHAMP
.
The
iudicious
reader
shal
be
iudge
whether
these
catholike
articles
haue
not
much
faster
footinge
in
the
holy
scriptures
,
then
your
contiarie
negatiues
.
Neither
doth
S.
Basill
anie
wayes
fauour
you
.
For
he
confirminge
his
sayinge
with
these
wordes
of
our
Sauiour
,
my
sheepe
heare
my
voyce
;
excludeth
not
that
worde
of
our
Sauiour
which
is
more
properlie
his
worde
then
the
scripture
.
For
he
sayth
not
my
scriptures
,
but
my
sheepe
heare
my
voyce
;
therfore
he
speaketh
of
the
voyce
as
it
is
deliuered
by
worde
,
and
not
as
it
is
written
.
PILK
.
And
yett
to
satisfy
you
,
we
shall
finde
sufficient
weapons
out
of
the
scriptures
to
lay
these
Anekims
on
the
grounde
.
Nowe
as
the
Roman
Emperour
that
meant
to
subdue
Germanie
,
brought
out
his
armie
,
and
put
them
in
aray
vppon
the
sea
shoore
,
and
presentlie
charged
them
to
gather
shelles
,
tellinge
them
that
they
were
spoyles
of
the
Ocean
,
due
to
the
capitoll
:
So
you
hauinge
marshalled
your
forces
and
putt
them
in
order
,
tell
your
reader
,
that
the
whole
body
of
them
is
but
a
Scheleton
,
bare
bones
,
tyed
together
with
drye
Sinewes
,
and
then
without
question
you
will
attaine
a
glorious
victorie
,
and
bringe
spoyles
fitt
for
the
vaticane
.
Yet
you
doubt
not
but
your
treatise
will
please
some
mens
appetite
,
and
I
am
of
your
minde
,
for
like
lippes
like
lettuce
.
Thus
from
your
prolusion
I
come
to
your
mayne
battaille
,
which
thus
you
beginne
.
CHAMP
.
What
sharpe
weapons
you
wil
finde
in
the
scriptures
,
for
▪
your
negatiue
faith
,
or
no
beleefe
,
I
will
with
patience
expect
,
and
hauinge
with
all
indifferencie
pondered
them
,
I
will
tell
you
with
all
sinceritie
,
what
weight
they
are
of
,
in
my
iudgment
.
In
the
meane
tyme
I
must
tel
you
,
that
your
conclusion
seemeth
to
me
as
litle
wittie
,
as
all
the
rest
of
your
discourse
is
learned
,
and
therfore
findinge
by
the
litle
experience
I
haue
of
you
,
that
such
lettuce
sute
well
with
your
lippes
,
I
leaue
them
wholy
to
your selfe
.
Manuall
.
The
first
controuersie
.
It
is
knowne
that
the
catholike
Roman
churche
doth
admitte
more
bookes
and
parcelles
of
holy
Bible
for
scripture
then
the
protestants
doe
,
and
cons●quently
acknowledge
a
larger
Canon
then
they
,
and
yett
notwithstandinge
shee
teacheth
.
PILK
.
The
Grecians
are
euer
children
,
rightlie
fitteth
you
Romanists
that
still
lispe
like
littell
children
,
and
excellentlie
speake
without
sence
For
to
say
the
catholike
Romane
church
,
is
as
good
sence
as
the
vniuersall
particular
churche
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
your
dull
vnderstandinge
,
and
not
our
lisping
language
that
maketh
these
wordes
the
Catholicke
Roman
●hur●h
without
sence
to
you
.
For
the
attribute
Romane
doth
not
restraine
anie
whit
the
amplitude
of
the
signification
of
that
worde
catholicke
or
vniuersall
either
in
re●pect
of
tyme
or
place
as
you
ignorantlie
imagine
;
but
doth
onlie
distinguish
it
from
all
such
sects
as
falselie
and
presumptuously
terme
themselues
catholike
,
but
dare
not
call
themselues
Romans
or
Roman
Catholickes
.
As
in
former
ages
the
worde
catholike
was
added
to
the
name
christian
for
the
same
purpose
as
auncient
Pacianus
signifieth
Therefore
when
we
say
a
Roman
Catholike
we
woulde
say
no
more
but
a
true
,
and
not
a
falsely
termed
catholike
.
And
because
you
are
a
member
of
one
of
those
sects
which
are
discried
by
this
worde
Romane
,
you
hate
it
as
theeues
hate
the
light
,
whereby
they
are
discouered
.
PILK
.
For
who
can
conceiue
the
catholike
churche
to
be
Roman
,
which
was
in
the
worlde
before
Rome
it selfe
was
,
for
it
is
the
generall
assembly
of
the
Saints
Heb.
12.
●3
.
from
Abell
the
first
iust
,
vnto
the
last
that
shall
beleeue
in
Christe
,
as
S.
Aug:
speaketh
.
Moreouer
all
the
nations
in
the
worlde
,
not
the
Romans
were
promised
to
Christ
psal.
2.
Aske
of
me
and
I
will
geue
thee
the
gentiles
for
thine
inheritance
,
and
the
vttermost
partes
of
the
earth
for
thy
possession
,
and
so
S.
Aug:
writeth
,
that
God
promised
to
the
seede
of
Abraham
,
not
the
Romans
,
but
all
the
gentils
,
and
sealed
it
with
an
oathe
,
by
which
promise
it
came
to
passe
,
that
manie
nations
not
contayned
vnder
the
Roman
iurisdiction
receiued
the
Gospell
,
and
were
ioyned
vnto
the
churche
.
CHAMP
.
There
is
no
greater
difficultie
to
conceiue
howe
the
catholike
churche
may
be
called
Roman
,
then
howe
the
christian
churche
(
which
denomination
began
first
at
Antioch
is
called
Catholike
.
And
if
you
would
knowe
he
reason
why
it
is
denominated
of
Rome
rather
then
of
Antioche
or
Hierusalem
,
it
is
because
S.
Peeter
,
who
was
Bishoppe
of
Rome
receiued
promise
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
,
that
his
churche
shoulde
be
builte
vppon
him
,
as
vppon
a
firme
rocke
,
and
that
hell
gates
shoulde
neuer
preuaile
against
it
.
Which
promise
our
Sauiour
Christ
hauinge
performed
,
it
is
come
to
passe
that
the
churche
of
Christe
which
was
first
called
christian
,
then
Catholike
,
is
nowe
called
Roman
,
and
thus
much
for
the
name
Roman
.
Nowe
I
woulde
haue
you
marke
,
that
whatsoeuer
you
say
in
proofe
of
this
attribute
catholike
,
you
say
in
condemnation
of
your
owne
protestanticall
assemblies
,
which
were
neuer
hearde
of
before
Martin
Luther
,
no
more
then
the
Arrians
were
before
Arrius
,
and
the
rest
of
the
sects
and
heresies
before
theire
maisters
and
authours
.
Which
one
argument
had
you
but
anie
indifferencie
,
ioyned
with
anie
meane
iudgment
,
woulde
be
sufficient
to
make
you
detest
the
felloweshippe
of
such
newe
maisters
.
PILK
.
Besides
the
moderne
Romane
churche
hath
made
a
defection
from
that
which
the
primatiue
Roman
church
maintayned
,
in
so
much
that
S.
Paules
Epistles
written
to
the
auncient
Romans
,
may
iustlie
be
called
an
antilogie
of
that
Religion
which
nowe
is
professed
in
the
cittie
of
Rome
.
CHAMP
.
Some
substantiall
proofe
of
this
your
assertion
,
woulde
assuredlie
gett
you
the
victorie
in
all
the
rest
you
contende
aboute
,
without
all
further
dispute
.
But
the
manifest
falsitie
of
your
affirmation
,
doth
not
only
make
your
cause
desperate
,
but
also
deepelie
woundeth
your
creditt
,
hauinge
no
care
to
affirme
so
apparant
vntruthes
without
the
slenderest
shewe
of
proofe
or
probabilitie
att
all
.
PILK
.
Besides
we
doe
not
finde
in
anie
auncient
creede
either
that
of
the
Apostles
or
of
Nice
,
or
in
anie
other
of
the
auncient
counsells
,
that
the
churche
was
stiled
the
cathol●cke
Roman
.
Finallie
howe
canne
a
parte
be
the
whole
?
Nowe
the
Roman
churche
(
thoughe
shee
were
pure
)
in
her
farthest
extent
,
is
but
a
parte
of
the
vniuersall
churche
.
CHAMP
.
Haue
you
not
yett
learned
howe
vaine
a
thinge
it
is
to
argue
ab
authorita
●
ne●a
ua
?
Produce
you
some
auncient
creede
,
where
the
churche
is
called
the
christian
churche
,
which
thoughe
you
cannot
doe
;
yett
I
hope
you
will
not
denie
the
catholicke
churche
to
be
rightlie
so
called
.
Neither
is
the
Roman
church
taken
for
a
parte
of
the
catholike
churche
,
as
you
either
falselie
or
foolishlie
surmise
,
but
for
the
whole
:
as
the
kinge
of
England
is
not
taken
onlie
to
be
kinge
of
Englande
but
of
the
rest
of
his
kingdomes
also
,
the
whole
takinge
name
of
one
parte
,
as
is
ordinarie
euen
in
common
speach
which
you
cannot
be
ignorant
of
.
PILK
.
Yett
you
say
this
vniuersall
particular
churche
admitteth
a
larger
Canon
then
the
protestants
,
you
meane
the
Apocripha
.
And
so
it
standeth
her
in
hand
,
otherwise
shee
might
bid
a
dieu
to
diuerse
profitable
points
that
helpe
her
to
vphoulde
her
Monarchie
.
But
the
churche
of
God
before
Christ
receiued
them
not
,
but
the
same
which
the
protestants
doe
embrace
.
Neither
read
we
that
Christe
or
anie
of
his
Apostles
did
cite
anie
testimonie
out
of
them
,
to
confirme
any
doctr●ne
by
them
,
which
they
did
out
of
all
the
canonicall
bookes
.
Besides
if
we
followe
S.
CHAMP
.
That
the
catholike
Romane
churche
admitteth
a
larger
Canon
,
that
is
(
as
the
Manuall
saith
)
moe
bookes
and
parcells
of
the
Bible
for
holy
scripture
,
then
the
protestants
doe
,
is
so
manifest
that
you
dare
not
denie
it
.
Nowe
whether
these
bookes
,
and
parcells
of
bookes
be
apocripha
or
noe
,
is
in
controuersie
,
you
affirminge
them
so
to
be
,
and
we
denyinge
it
.
Which
question
cannot
here
be
disputed
or
discussed
for
confoundinge
of
matters
.
Onlie
this
I
say
by
the
way
to
your
obiections
made
against
them
;
that
if
you
doe
stand
to
S.
Aug
iudgment
in
this
pointe
(
to
whome
you
make
shewe
to
appeale
)
the
cause
is
lost
on
your
parte
,
and
if
you
will
not
de
Doctrina
Christiana
cap
5.
&
6.
and
be
your
owne
iudge
.
Againe
your
exceptions
against
the
bookes
in
controuersie
are
such
,
as
if
they
were
admitted
for
sufficient
to
prooue
them
Apocripha
,
I
dare
vndertake
to
prooue
all
or
the
most
parte
of
the
bookes
in
the
Bible
to
be
Apocripha
.
And
this
I
will
make
good
whensoeuer
you
dare
vppon
equall
conditions
to
chalenge
me
therunto
.
See
therfore
I
pray
what
a
friende
you
are
to
the
holy
scripture
,
that
open
such
and
so
wide
a
gappe
,
to
take
quite
away
all
scripture
.
And
this
shall
suffice
for
answere
to
all
your
tedious
discourse
in
this
section
.
Manuall
Catholike
position
the
first
.
That
all
such
articles
as
by
her
(
the
Catholike
Roman
churche
)
and
the
protestants
,
are
beleeued
and
holden
for
articles
of
faith
,
are
not
so
expressely
contayned
in
the
holy
scriptures
,
as
out
of
them
onlie
full
proofe
may
be
made
thereof
.
PILK
.
This
position
is
so
doubtfullie
sett
downe
as
if
of
purpose
you
would
walke
in
a
cloude
,
that
your
reader
might
not
perceiue
you
.
For
if
by
expresselie
,
you
meane
wordes
and
sillables
;
then
it
is
true
that
all
articles
of
faith
are
not
contayned
in
holy
scriptures
in
so
manie
wordes
:
but
if
you
meane
the
sence
and
substance
,
and
that
which
may
be
deduced
by
necessarie
consequence
,
then
it
is
false
that
full
proofe
cannot
be
made
of
all
articles
of
faith
out
of
scripture
.
In
the
former
sence
,
there
is
not
anie
protestant
,
that
hath
taught
that
the
scriptures
expresselie
contayne
all
articles
of
faith
,
and
this
you
papists
knowe
.
For
Eckius
reprooueth
the
Lutherans
,
for
that
they
will
haue
nothinge
beleeued
,
but
which
is
expresse
scripture
,
or
can
be
prooued
out
of
scriptures
.
So
that
your
owne
side
perceiue
we
beleeue
thinges
that
are
not
expresselie
sett
downe
in
scriptures
,
but
nothinge
which
hath
not
a
iust
proofe
out
of
it
.
CHAMP
.
The
cloude
is
in
your
owne
brayne
,
and
not
in
my
position
,
which
is
neither
darke
not
doubtfull
but
to
you
;
who
perceiuinge
it
to
presse
and
pinch
,
woulde
gladlie
finde
some
doubtefullnes
therein
.
For
if
you
had
not
been
either
blinde
or
blinde
foulded
,
you
would
haue
seen
that
the
position
denyeth
full
proofe
of
all
articles
of
faith
out
of
scriptures
,
in
the
same
sence
and
meaninge
that
you
professe
to
mayntaine
the
affirmatiue
;
and
not
onlie
the
expresse
contayninge
them
in
so
manie
wordes
or
sillabels
.
Manuall
,
proofe
of
the
Catholike
position
.
The
articles
which
protestants
beleeue
to
be
of
faith
as
well
as
Catholikes
,
and
yett
are
not
contayned
expresselie
in
holy
scripture
,
are
manie
,
but
we
will
geue
instance
but
onlie
in
a
fewe
.
First
that
there
are
three
distinct
persons
and
one
only
substance
or
essence
in
God
.
Secondlie
that
the
second
and
thirde
persons
are
of
the
same
substance
,
and
of
equall
glorie
with
the
first
.
Thirdelie
that
the
thirde
person
proceedeth
from
the
second
and
from
the
first
.
Fowerthly
that
there
are
two
distinct
and
compleat
natures
in
our
Sauiour
Christ
,
and
but
one
onlie
person
.
Fiftlie
that
there
are
in
him
two
willes
and
two
operations
,
to
witt
of
God
and
man
,
aboute
all
which
haue
been
diuerse
heresies
as
is
wel
known
to
the
learned
.
And
thoughe
all
these
articles
haue
most
true
grounde
and
proofe
in
holy
scriptures
,
yett
are
they
not
so
expressely
contayned
therein
,
as
they
may
be
fullie
prooued
by
them
alone
.
One
example
shall
serue
for
al
;
to
prooue
the
sonne
of
God
to
be
consubstantial
or
of
one
substance
with
the
father
,
the
catholikes
doe
alleage
(
and
trulie
)
this
testimonie
(
I
and
PILK
.
What
a
gap
you
open
to
Gentilisme
,
Iudaisme
and
Heresie
,
when
you
deny
the
maine
groundes
of
christianitie
to
haue
a
full
proofe
from
the
scriptures
,
but
require
the
helpe
of
tradition
and
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
as
if
the
authoritie
of
the
church
woulde
preuaile
with
them
,
with
whom
the
scriptures
will
not
.
CHAMP
.
Are
you
a
doctor
in
diuinitie
,
and
thinke
a
greate
gappe
to
be
opened
to
Gentilisme
and
Iudai●me
by
denyinge
the
mistery
of
the
blessed
Trinitie
,
to
be
fullie
and
clearlie
prooued
out
of
the
scriptures
only
?
would
you
if
you
had
to
doe
with
them
goe
aboute
to
prooue
that
mysterie
,
either
out
of
the
newe
testament
to
the
Iewes
,
or
out
of
the
whole
Bible
to
the
Gentiles
?
It
would
well
become
your
iudgment
indeede
,
and
suteth
well
with
the
rest
of
your
learned
discourses
.
But
whatsoeuer
you
would
doe
in
that
case
,
I
knowe
that
noe
man
indued
with
one
dramme
of
witt
,
would
thinke
that
kinde
of
proofe
to
haue
anie
force
with
them
that
receiue
not
the
scriptures
,
thoughe
they
were
as
cleare
and
expresse
as
you
coulde
desire
them
to
be
.
And
a
for
the
gap
opened
hereby
to
heresie
:
Lett
the
worlde
that
seeth
so
manie
sects
of
heresies
spronge
out
of
one
Luther
,
iudge
whether
your
paradoxe
of
the
sufficiencie
of
onlie
scripture
,
without
respecte
to
the
churches
authoritie
and
iudgment
,
hath
not
brought
them
forth
and
begotten
them
.
Lett
the
example
of
Legatt
testifie
whether
your
position
or
myne
open
the
gap
wider
to
heresie
.
Finallie
lett
all
the
heresies
in
the
worlde
witnes
,
whether
the
contemninge
of
the
churches
authoritie
in
expoundinge
of
holy
scriptures
,
hath
not
been
the
mother
of
them
all
.
Take
away
therefore
your
paradoxe
of
the
fulnes
of
scriptures
,
and
put
my
position
of
the
necessitie
of
the
churches
iudgment
in
declaringe
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
scriptures
in
practise
,
and
the
gap
to
all
heresie
will
quicklie
be
so
fast
shutt
,
that
shee
will
neuer
more
appeare
in
the
worlde
.
PILK
.
But
in
defence
of
that
royall
and
holy
faith
,
we
are
verie
confident
that
all
these
articles
expressed
by
you
,
haue
both
a
true
and
full
proofe
from
them
.
The
trinitie
of
persons
in
the
vnitie
of
one
essence
is
plainlie
taught
:
otherwise
what
man
or
Angell
durst
prie
into
that
maiestie
lest
he
were
oppressed
of
glorie
.
There
be
three
that
Secondlie
he
that
geueth
eternall
life
to
his
sheepe
,
so
that
none
can
take
them
out
of
his
hande
,
is
of
the
same
power
,
and
consequentlie
of
the
same
nature
with
God
;
For
what
is
it
to
be
God
,
but
to
be
of
the
highest
and
greatest
power
,
then
which
none
greater
?
but
the
sonne
doth
soe
;
ver.
28.
&
29.
And
I
geue
vnto
them
eternall
life
,
and
they
shall
neuer
perish
,
neither
shall
anie
plucke
them
out
of
myne
hande
.
Thirdlie
the
Iewes
tooke
vppe
stones
to
stone
him
,
as
a
blasphemer
as
one
that
made
himselfe
God
,
this
cause
they
sett
downe
in
plaine
termes
.
verse
33.
Because
thou
makest
thy selfe
God
,
beinge
man
;
but
it
is
no
blasphemie
to
be
of
the
like
will
,
desire
and
affection
with
God
:
playne
therefore
it
is
by
Christs
argument
,
that
he
did
preache
God
so
to
be
his
Father
,
as
the
Iewes
vnderstoode
he
would
haue
himselfe
the
naturall
sonne
of
God
.
See
nowe
excepte
you
be
blinder
than
the
Iewes
,
how
plentifullie
this
scripture
prooueth
the
consubstantialitie
of
the
sonne
,
and
as
for
the
place
of
Io.
17.
it
helpeth
not
the
Arrians
at
all
,
as
S.
Aug.
sheweth
to
Pascentius
CHAMP
.
You
haue
bestowed
all
this
labour
moste
idlie
,
goinge
aboute
to
prooue
to
me
,
that
these
articles
are
true
,
and
to
haue
true
grounde
in
the
scriptures
,
which
no
catholicke
euer
doubted
of
.
That
which
you
shoulde
haue
laboured
in
(
if
you
woulde
haue
spoken
to
the
purpose
)
is
,
that
these
articles
haue
so
full
proofe
out
of
scriptures
onlie
,
that
an
heretike
might
be
conuinced
thereby
without
iudgment
and
interpretation
of
the
churche
vppon
the
same
places
.
Which
is
euidently
prooued
to
be
false
by
the
many
and
diuerse
heresies
which
haue
been
maintayned
against
all
these
articles
.
For
the
authors
thereof
,
hereticallie
refusinge
the
vnderstandinge
of
the
church
vppon
those
places
of
scriptures
,
and
diuers
others
,
as
you
also
doe
in
the
places
condemninge
your
heresies
,
and
followinge
wilfullie
theire
owne
iudgment
therein
as
you
in
like
manner
doe
▪
coulde
not
be
conuinced
of
theire
errours
▪
but
interpreted
these
places
and
all
others
brought
against
them
,
in
such
sorte
as
they
made
not
against
them
att
all
.
And
as
for
the
particuler
authorities
proouing
diuers
of
these
articles
,
consulte
with
your
Grand
Maister
Caluin
,
and
see
what
weight
he
put●eth
in
them
for
the
proofe
of
the
sayde
misteries
.
Or
if
you
like
not
to
turne
his
bookes
,
read
the
litle
booke
written
by
Egidius
Hunnius
a
professed
protestant
intituled
Caluinus
Iudaizans
,
and
you
shall
see
whether
he
was
conuinced
in
these
articles
by
all
the
passages
of
holy
scripture
alleaged
for
that
purpose
.
Yett
would
I
not
haue
you
to
thinke
that
I
approoue
his
wicked
doctrine
herein
(
which
I
detest
as
most
hereticall
)
but
onlie
produce
him
as
an
irreprooueable
instance
of
my
position
.
Therefore
all
the
longe
,
lose
and
imperfect
discourse
which
you
haue
made
in
this
paragraffe
(
wherein
are
manie
paralogismes
and
impertinencies
)
so
farr
as
it
prooueth
anie
thinge
,
prooueth
Caluin
to
haue
been
a
wicked
miscreant
,
but
prooueth
nothinge
against
my
position
;
which
denieth
not
these
verities
,
to
haue
most
true
ground
in
holy
scripture
,
according
to
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
thereof
,
but
not
in
such
sorte
as
the
euidence
thereof
cannot
be
auoyded
by
an
heretike
.
And
you
your selfe
that
wrangle
so
much
heere
against
all
experience
,
as
well
of
the
present
as
all
precedent
ages
,
will
not
acknowledge
the
catholike
positions
nowe
in
controuersie
,
prooued
by
more
,
or
at
least
by
as
plaine
and
expresse
scripture
as
these
are
,
to
be
sufficientlie
prooued
.
So
that
I
neede
seeke
no
further
confirmation
of
my
position
,
then
the
experience
of
your
owne
peruersitie
.
PILK
.
Yea
to
stoppe
your
mouth
,
I
add
that
S.
Aug.
doth
euidentlie
except
against
the
authoritie
of
the
church
,
in
his
polemicall
bookes
against
the
Arrian
Bishopp
in
two
seuerall
councells
,
the
one
of
Nice
,
the
other
of
Arriminum
,
the
former
of
which
had
ratified
the
consubstantialitie
of
the
sonne
,
and
the
other
reuoked
it
,
and
tyeth
both
himselfe
and
the
Arrian
onlie
to
the
scriptures
,
as
knowinge
this
pointe
of
faith
fullie
to
be
prooued
of
them
.
CHAMP
.
Your
mouth
meriteth
well
the
stopinge
that
doth
so
farr
and
fowlie
ouerflowe
,
as
to
say
that
S.
Aug
▪
doth
euidentlie
except
against
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
.
What
,
haue
you
so
soone
forgott
that
he
protested
he
would
not
beleeue
the
go
pell
but
that
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
moued
him
?
you
haue
be
like
some
as
euident
and
expresse
wordes
of
his
exception
against
the
churche
,
authoritie
as
this
is
for
it
,
or
else
your
assertion
is
moste
shameles
:
let
vs
here
I
pray
you
what
he
saith
.
PILK
.
Neither
ought
I
(
saith
S.
Aug.
)
to
vrge
the
councell
of
Nice
,
nor
thou
that
of
Arriminum
,
I
am
not
tyed
to
the
authoritie
of
the
one
,
nor
thou
of
the
other
,
but
out
of
the
scriptures
that
are
not
parties
,
but
common
witnesses
vnto
vs
both
;
lett
matter
to
matter
,
cause
to
cause
,
reason
to
reason
be
indifferentlie
opposed
.
CHAMP
.
Howe
willinglie
you
deceiue
your selfe
and
wilfullie
labour
to
deceiue
others
?
I
must
needes
thinke
that
it
is
malice
or
peruersitie
,
&
not
ignorance
that
maketh
you
abuse
this
place
of
S
,
Aug:
who
hauing
sayde
that
the
worde
●omo●sion
.
beinge
by
the
catholike
fathers
in
the
councell
of
Nice
by
the
authoritie
of
truth
,
and
truth
of
authoritie
established
▪
was
after
in
the
councell
of
Arriminum
vnder
the
hereticall
Emperour
Constantius
by
the
fraude
of
a
fewe
disliked
,
but
afterwardes
acknowledged
,
he
cometh
to
say
.
But
nowe
neither
I
ought
to
vse
the
authoritie
of
the
councell
of
Nice
,
nor
thou
of
the
counsell
▪
of
Arriminum
,
but
such
testimonie
of
scripture
as
are
common
to
both
.
Where
S.
Aug.
is
as
farr
from
exceptinge
against
the
authoritie
of
the
church
in
the
councell
of
Nice
,
as
I
am
nowe
from
exceptinge
against
the
authoritie
of
the
councell
of
Trent
,
in
that
I
doe
not
vse
it
against
you
,
but
am
content
to
deale
with
you
by
the
scriptures
,
which
beinge
receiued
by
vs
both
,
are
irreproueable
witnesses
.
In
this
therefore
&
noe
other
sorte
doth
S.
August
:
omitte
to
vrge
the
authoritie
of
the
councell
of
Nice
against
his
aduersarie
Maximian
the
Arrian
,
and
tye
himselfe
to
the
scriptures
,
then
I
doe
nowe
tye
my selfe
to
the
scriptures
omitting
to
vrge
the
authoritie
of
the
councell
of
Trent
against
you
a
protestant
.
And
tell
me
I
pray
you
,
did
S.
Aug:
(
thinke
you
)
esteeme
the
authoritie
of
truth
and
truth
of
authoritie
?
But
you
delight
not
onlie
to
err
your selfe
,
but
also
to
drawe
others
into
errour
with
you
.
PILK
.
Where
then
is
your
inference
,
that
this
scripture
without
the
interpretation
of
the
churche
doth
not
fullie
prooue
the
Father
and
the
sonne
to
be
one
in
substance
,
as
if
the
scriptures
before
the
churches
interpretation
prooue
onlie
probable
;
after
her
interpretation
fullie
.
This
I
gather
to
be
your
meaninge
,
because
Bellarmine
CHAMP
.
My
inference
standeth
good
,
nor
is
it
anie
way
impeached
by
S.
Aug:
euen
in
this
place
by
you
alleaged
as
alreadie
appeareth
.
Besides
in
his
booke
de
vera
religione
cap.
1.
he
hath
these
expresse
wordes
▪
who
is
not
starke
madd
and
easilie
vnderstandeth
not
,
that
the
exposition
of
scriptures
,
is
to
be
sought
from
them
who
professe
themselues
teachers
of
the
same
?
He
meaneth
the
pastours
and
doctours
of
the
churche
.
And
concerninge
this
place
.
Ego
&
pater
vnum
sumus
,
read
S.
Athanasius
his
Epistle
ad
Episcopos
Arrianos
,
and
see
howe
they
were
conuinced
with
it
,
or
if
you
will
not
looke
so
farr
,
make
a
litle
inquirie
of
Legats
answere
vnto
it
.
That
which
you
say
of
the
scriptures
before
and
after
the
churches
interpretation
,
and
likwise
of
S.
Aug:
out
of
Bellarmine
(
though
I
find
noe
such
thinge
in
the
place
of
Bellar.
by
you
cited
)
in
the
catholicke
sence
is
true
.
That
is
,
hoc
est
corpus
meum
,
without
some
authoritie
to
interprete
them
,
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
them
cannot
assuredlie
be
knowne
vnto
vs
.
And
therefore
hath
God
placed
in
his
church
pastours
and
doctors
to
deliuer
vnto
his
people
,
the
true
meaning
of
his
worde
,
and
hath
promised
to
be
with
them
alwayes
,
&
that
to
heare
them
is
to
heare
PILK
.
Lett
this
be
marked
.
For
when
we
say
that
the
scriptures
doe
prooue
fullie
articles
of
faith
,
we
take
not
away
subordinate
meanes
whereby
we
may
see
and
learne
the
fulnes
of
the
scriptures
:
but
we
exclude
all
outwarde
and
aduentitious
authoritie
,
to
supplie
the
supposed
weaknes
in
them
,
and
to
adde
strength
and
firmenes
vnto
them
.
CHAMP
.
Necessitie
and
the
verie
euidence
of
truth
forceth
you
to
confesse
some
meanes
to
learne
the
true
ence
and
meaninge
of
the
scriptures
;
but
your
owne
peruersitie
and
obstinacy
will
not
permitte
you
to
speak
plainlie
.
What
doe
you
I
play
vnderstande
by
subordinate
meanes
which
you
say
you
exclude
not
?
and
what
doe
you
meane
by
aduentitious
authoritie
?
doe
you
meane
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
?
so
your
wordes
followinge
doe
insinuate
.
But
shewe
you
as
clearly
out
of
the
scripture
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
to
be
excluded
as
strange
and
aduentitious
,
as
we
will
shewe
you
that
it
is
ratyfied
,
established
,
and
commended
vnto
vs
as
an
vnfallible
guide
and
teacher
of
truth
,
and
then
we
will
geue
some
creditt
to
your
wordes
;
but
till
then
which
will
be
neuer
,
knowe
yee
that
yee
are
prooued
to
contemne
scripture
,
and
all
other
authoritie
saue
onlie
your
owne
foolishe
fancie
,
which
you
make
to
be
iudge
of
the
holy
scripture
it selfe
.
PILK
.
Which
strength
the
papists
say
,
they
haue
not
of
themselues
,
but
receiue
from
the
interpretation
of
the
churche
,
and
traditions
;
which
is
an
impious
and
blasphemous
assertion
.
For
the
interpretation
of
a
Sinode
,
is
but
a
glosse
,
the
scripture
is
the
text
;
the
interpretation
may
err
,
the
text
cannott
erre
;
the
interpretation
is
the
worde
of
man
,
the
scriptures
the
voyce
of
God
:
to
conclude
this
point
,
whereas
the
position
of
the
former
Roman
church
was
,
that
diuinitie
reasoneth
from
the
scriptures
necessarilie
,
from
other
authors
and
learninge
probablie
;
the
wheele
nowe
is
turned
,
and
men
reason
from
the
scriptures
coniecturallie
,
but
from
the
interpretation
of
the
churche
and
tradition
,
firmelie
and
sullie
.
CHAMP
.
Howe
often
haue
you
been
tould
of
your
wittinge
belying
your
aduersaries
?
you
knowe
well
if
you
knowe
anie
thinge
,
that
the
catholikes
whom
you
call
papists
,
doe
teach
the
scriptures
to
be
the
worde
of
the
holy
Ghost
,
and
to
haue
theire
veritie
from
him
independentlie
of
the
churche
:
And
therefore
that
the
churche
addeth
no
strength
or
veritie
to
them
,
no
more
then
the
witnes
or
notarie
addeth
truth
or
veritie
to
the
will
&
testament
of
the
testatour
.
Neuertheles
the
authoritie
&
testimonie
of
the
churche
,
is
as
necessarie
for
the
acceptance
and
acknowledgment
,
as
well
of
the
letter
and
texte
it selfe
,
as
of
the
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
scriptures
,
as
the
witnes
or
notaries
hande
is
to
the
acknowledgment
and
proofe
of
the
will
and
testament
,
or
as
the
sentence
of
the
iudge
is
necessarie
for
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
of
the
will
,
if
at
anie
tyme
it
come
to
be
in
doubte
or
in
question
.
Neither
is
the
interpretation
of
the
churche
vppon
the
scripture
,
the
interpretation
or
worde
of
man
,
as
you
hereticallie
tearme
it
,
but
of
the
holy
Ghost
as
(
besides
other
places
)
you
may
learne
of
that
.
Visum
est
Spitui
Sancto
&
nobis
.
But
it
auaileth
,
like
as
to
teache
a
wilfull
mynde
wisdome
.
Your
conclusion
is
yett
more
childishe
,
ignorant
,
and
impertinent
.
For
from
the
scriptures
vnderstoode
in
the
sence
of
the
churche
which
is
infalliblie
true
,
we
say
the
argument
is
necessarie
and
infallible
,
whereas
from
all
humane
authours
taken
seuerallie
,
be
they
neuer
so
learned
,
the
argument
is
not
certayne
but
probable
.
But
when
we
speake
of
humane
authors
,
we
vnderstande
not
the
churche
nor
yett
her
receiued
traditions
.
And
thus
you
see
your
strongest
arguments
against
the
position
of
the
manuall
,
are
nothinge
but
froathie
calumnies
,
paralogismes
and
impertinencies
,
dispersed
and
blowne
away
with
euerie
small
blast
of
winde
.
Manuall
.
Catholike
position
.
2.
All
such
articles
as
are
of
faith
and
so
holden
by
the
protestants
themselues
,
are
not
contayned
so
much
as
indirectlie
or
implicitlie
in
the
holy
scriptures
:
but
onlie
so
farr
as
the
scriptures
contayne
and
testifie
the
authority
of
the
churche
&
traditions
.
Proofe
.
Take
all
the
bookes
of
the
bible
and
euerie
parte
thereof
,
which
are
acknowledged
for
canonicall
scripture
ioyntlie
of
catholikes
and
protestants
,
be
such
indeede
.
That
the
moste
blessed
mother
of
our
Sauiour
Christe
,
continued
perpetuallie
a
virgin
.
That
it
is
lawfull
for
christians
to
eat
strangled
thinges
,
and
blood
(
which
were
expressely
forbidden
them
Acts
15.
20.
)
are
not
so
much
as
indirectly
contained
in
holy
scriptures
,
otherwise
then
is
mentioned
in
our
position
.
But
this
being
more
amply
proued
in
that
which
followeth
of
traditions
,
this
which
we
haue
sayd
alreadie
shal
suffice
for
the
present
.
PILK
.
The
sunne
needeth
to
borrowe
no
light
of
other
starres
,
nor
the
scriptures
of
the
churche
,
or
of
tradition
;
For
without
helpe
of
either
,
they
sufficientlie
prooue
all
articles
of
faith
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
an
vsuall
tricke
of
all
deceiptfull
and
verball
disputers
,
to
inuert
&
change
the
question
in
hande
;
that
when
they
can
say
nothinge
to
the
true
question
,
they
may
finde
somethinge
to
say
to
the
question
framed
by
themselues
.
The
controuersie
here
is
not
whether
the
scriptures
doe
sufficientlie
prooue
all
other
articles
of
faith
,
for
that
was
disputed
in
the
precedent
position
,
and
the
negatiue
parte
there
prooued
against
you
;
but
whether
they
sufficientlie
prooue
themselues
to
be
the
holy
scriptures
or
noe
,
which
▪
was
▪
the
first
proofe
of
this
position
:
lett
vs
heare
howe
you
answere
it
.
PILK
.
But
here
you
trifle
in
idle
Homonomie
of
articles
of
faith
.
For
strictlie
those
thinges
are
called
articles
of
faith
,
which
are
prescribed
in
the
old
and
newe
testament
to
be
beleeued
,
and
are
summarilie
comprised
in
the
Apostles
creed
;
whereby
they
are
both
distinguished
from
the
precepts
of
the
lawe
that
prescribe
good
workes
,
and
from
the
principles
of
diuintie
,
from
which
as
from
conclusions
they
are
deriued
.
CHAMP
.
I
knowe
not
what
you
call
trifelinge
in
homonomie
;
but
I
knowe
that
you
bable
in
obscuritie
.
It
is
be
like
no
article
of
faith
with
you
,
that
God
is
to
be
adored
,
his
name
not
to
be
prophaned
or
blasphemed
,
that
our
parents
are
to
be
honoured
,
with
the
rest
of
gods
commaundements
,
because
they
be
precepts
commaundinge
good
workes
.
I
maruell
where
you
learned
this
good
diuinitie
.
But
lett
this
passe
,
yett
it
serueth
not
your
turne
;
For
the
scriptures
whereof
the
question
is
nowe
,
are
not
precepts
as
you
knowe
.
You
haue
therefore
another
as
good
a
shifte
.
That
is
,
that
articles
of
faith
are
distinguished
not
onlie
from
precepts
,
but
also
●ro●
princeples
of
diuinitie
.
from
which
as
conclusions
they
are
deriued
;
these
are
your
owne
wordes
,
but
what
you
meane
by
them
I
cannot
conceiue
.
They
seeme
to
sounde
,
that
the
articles
of
faith
as
conclusions
,
are
deriued
from
the
principles
of
diuinitie
.
Then
which
you
coulde
haue
sayd
nothinge
more
contrarie
to
truthe
.
For
all
men
knowe
that
the
conclusions
of
diuinitie
are
deriued
from
the
articles
of
our
faith
,
as
from
theire
principles
&
not
the
contrarie
as
you
dreame
.
It
had
been
good
you
had
taken
one
yeere
more
to
haue
reuewed
your
writinges
,
that
you
might
haue
made
better
sence
of
your
ayinges
.
PILK
.
Of
which
sorte
of
principles
these
are
;
That
the
holy
scriptures
are
diuine
,
inspired
from
heauen
,
immutabely
true
.
CHAMP
.
By
what
other
reason
I
pray
you
are
these
thinges
here
named
by
you
,
rather
to
be
called
principles
of
diuinitie
,
then
articles
of
faith
,
more
then
for
your
owne
bare
and
ignorant
assertion
?
you
should
haue
geuen
some
reason
for
your
distinction
,
that
your
reader
might
haue
seene
it
had
not
been
meerely
forged
onlie
to
delude
the
argument
.
Againe
why
are
these
thinges
to
be
tearmed
principles
,
and
not
articles
of
faith
;
God
is
one
;
God
is
omnipotent
;
God
is
truth
it selfe
and
the
first
truth
that
reuealeth
misteries
of
faith
?
you
dare
not
denie
these
to
be
principles
of
the
other
principles
,
and
yett
are
they
most
properlie
articles
of
faith
as
you
dare
not
denie
,
expressed
in
the
creede
it selfe
.
You
see
therefore
your
distinctions
of
articles
and
principles
of
faith
to
be
vaine
,
foolishe
and
friuolous
,
inuented
onlie
to
delude
your
lesse
carefull
reader
.
PILK
.
Improperlie
articles
of
faith
are
called
whatsoeuer
is
written
as
the
principles
themselues
,
preceptes
of
the
lawe
,
sermons
of
the
prophets
,
histories
of
both
testaments
,
because
faith
,
assenteth
to
euerie
thinge
deliuered
in
the
worde
.
CHAMP
.
That
is
properlie
an
article
of
faith
,
that
is
beleeued
for
diuine
authoritie
,
whether
it
be
written
or
noe
,
as
were
all
these
thinges
the
fathers
beleeued
before
the
lawe
written
.
And
because
we
beleeue
the
bookes
of
Genesis
for
example
,
and
the
rest
of
the
holy
Byble
,
to
be
written
by
Gods
reuelation
,
therefore
doe
we
beleeue
them
to
be
holy
scripture
,
and
to
containe
gods
worde
.
Which
therefore
is
properlie
,
an
article
of
faith
no
lesse
then
the
misterie
of
the
blessed
trinitie
,
beleeued
for
the
same
authoritie
.
PILK
.
Vppon
this
grounde
I
answere
,
first
in
generall
,
that
none
of
these
points
are
articles
of
faith
.
CHAMP
.
Vppon
such
a
false
grounde
you
are
like
to
builde
a
good
answere
.
Is
it
no
article
of
faith
with
you
that
the
booke
of
Genesis
is
written
by
gods
reuelation
?
Tell
me
I
pray
you
vnto
what
kinde
of
knowledge
or
assent
you
will
reduce
it
?
I
will
confesse
you
a
maister
in
diuinitie
if
you
can
make
it
well
appeare
,
by
what
other
act
of
knowledge
or
vnderstandinge
we
assent
vnto
this
veritie
,
besides
the
act
of
faith
.
Which
if
you
cannot
performe
,
as
assuredlie
you
cannott
,
you
must
needes
see
this
your
first
answere
to
be
noe
answere
att
all
,
but
a
meere
supposall
of
a
manifest
falsitie
.
PILK
.
Secondlie
I
answere
to
euerie
one
in
particular
.
I
answere
to
the
the
first
.
That
all
canonicall
bookes
and
euerie
parcell
thereof
be
such
,
is
prooued
out
of
themselues
.
For
besides
that
the
ould
testament
prooueth
the
newe
,
and
the
newe
the
old
(
for
whatsoeuer
we
read
in
the
ould
testament
,
the
same
is
founde
in
the
gospell
,
and
whatsoeuer
is
founde
in
the
gospell
that
is
deduced
from
the
authoritie
of
the
ould
testament
,
as
Hierome
speaketh
)
so
in
speciall
CHAMP
.
Your
second
answere
is
as
much
to
the
purpose
,
as
your
first
.
Neither
the
old
testament
proouing
the
newe
,
nor
contrariwise
;
vnles
the
one
be
beleeued
before
.
Yea
you
make
your selfe
ridiculous
to
all
men
by
such
a
naturall
or
circulare
proofe
,
vnles
you
suppose
the
assured
beleefe
of
some
parte
before
.
For
example
if
one
shoulde
demaunde
of
you
how
you
knowe
,
or
why
you
doe
beleeue
those
wordes
of
our
Sauiour
which
you
cite
out
of
the
24
:
of
S.
Luke
either
to
haue
been
spoken
by
him
,
or
written
by
S.
Luke
;
would
you
say
that
they
euidentlie
prooue
themselues
so
to
be
?
surely
this
you
must
say
,
both
accordinge
to
your
doctrine
here
,
and
accordinge
to
the
necessitie
you
putt
your selfe
into
by
denyinge
the
authority
of
tradition
and
of
the
churches
testimonie
.
And
yett
in
sayinge
that
,
you
shall
euidently
prooue
your selfe
to
be
senceles
.
For
there
is
noe
such
euidence
of
the
thinge
,
but
anie
man
that
is
not
moued
with
the
authoritie
of
gods
churche
,
and
tradition
would
esteeme
it
verie
vncertaine
and
most
doubtfull
.
For
vnles
these
wordes
,
(
and
that
which
I
say
of
them
,
I
say
of
the
rest
of
the
scripture
)
were
God
himselfe
,
and
spake
to
vs
as
imediatlie
as
he
did
to
Moises
,
and
the
rest
of
his
prophetts
,
they
cannot
be
sayde
to
be
knowne
by
theire
owne
light
,
nor
beleeued
for
theire
owne
truth
.
Againe
suppose
you
had
certayne
knoweledge
of
this
by
what
meanes
soeuer
,
howe
could
you
be
certayne
that
he
speaketh
of
those
bookes
of
Moises
,
psalmes
,
and
prophetts
,
which
we
haue
vnder
those
names
?
This
certainlie
would
be
impossible
for
you
to
prooue
,
seinge
you
reiect
the
authoritie
of
tradition
and
the
churches
iudgment
,
by
which
onlie
it
is
assuredlie
prooued
.
Furthermore
you
knowe
,
that
our
Sauiour
speakinge
in
his
owne
person
,
required
not
to
be
beleeued
but
by
the
testimonie
of
his
workes
,
PILK
.
The
Gospells
of
the
Euangelists
the
Acts
,
and
Epistles
of
the
Apostles
,
the
reuelation
of
S.
Iohn
,
prooue
themselues
out
of
themselues
,
to
be
theires
whose
titles
they
beare
.
And
if
we
creditt
the
bookes
of
historians
and
Philosophers
,
auncient
and
moderne
,
diuine
and
humane
,
to
be
theires
whose
names
they
carrie
,
in
theire
foreheads
;
what
madnes
were
it
to
thinke
the
diuine
scriptures
not
to
be
written
by
them
,
who
are
said
to
be
theire
penmen
,
after
the
defluxion
of
so
manie
ages
,
wherein
neuer
anie
good
christian
called
them
in
question
besides
wicked
Iesuits
,
impure
Manichees
,
Cerdonians
,
Marcionists
,
and
Ebionites
.
CHAMP
.
None
of
all
these
bookes
say
,
they
were
written
by
such
and
such
,
as
is
manifest
.
And
thoughe
they
did
,
yett
were
not
this
sufficient
to
prooue
them
theirs
,
vnles
it
were
certaine
this
were
theire
testimonie
,
and
that
they
were
infallible
in
their
testimonie
.
As
for
the
titles
they
beare
,
there
is
the
same
difficultie
.
For
it
is
not
otherwise
knowne
to
be
theirs
then
by
faith
and
beleefe
,
of
which
we
seeke
the
grounde
.
And
if
titles
were
sufficient
proofes
of
the
true
gospells
,
we
should
haue
manie
moe
gospells
then
we
haue
,
as
you
cannot
be
ignorant
.
Againe
the
Epistle
to
the
Hebrues
beareth
not
the
name
of
anie
of
the
Apostles
,
and
howe
longe
it
was
thought
by
diuerse
not
to
be
S.
Paules
you
knowe
,
vnles
you
be
verie
ignorant
.
For
the
workes
of
other
humane
authors
why
doe
you
beleeue
them
to
be
theirs
,
if
it
be
not
for
the
testimonie
of
all
succeedinge
ages
brought
vnto
vs
by
tradition
?
Giue
some
other
sufficient
grounde
of
your
beleefe
in
this
poynte
,
if
you
can
,
and
if
you
cannot
,
say
you
are
senceles
to
reiect
ecclesiasticall
tradition
in
receiuinge
the
bookes
of
the
Bible
,
or
else
that
your
iudgment
is
foolishe
and
idle
.
Moreouer
were
it
certainly
knowne
vnto
vs
that
S.
Mathewe
wrote
the
gospell
we
haue
vnder
his
owne
name
,
as
it
is
nowe
by
tradition
and
the
churches
authoritie
;
yett
vnles
it
were
further
certaine
that
he
wrote
by
diuine
inspiration
(
which
without
some
diuine
testimonie
we
knowe
not
)
it
could
not
be
certaine
to
vs
that
his
gospell
is
the
word
of
God
.
Nowe
if
you
had
lefte
out
of
the
number
of
those
that
haue
called
the
scriptures
into
question
(
Iesuites
)
and
putt
in
theire
place
,
Lutherans
or
Protestants
,
your
wordes
might
haue
passed
for
currant
.
But
tell
me
in
the
small
honestie
of
a
protestant
minister
,
did
you
euer
knowe
that
anie
Iesuite
called
anie
booke
of
scripture
into
question
or
doubte
?
you
cannot
,
thoughe
you
burst
your selfe
,
giue
an
instance
.
Whereas
you
doe
not
onlie
call
manie
bookes
of
the
holy
Byble
into
doubt
,
but
absolutlie
reiect
them
as
Apocripha
,
and
your
Grand
father
Luther
with
his
truer
disciples
,
doth
manie
moe
,
euen
of
those
which
you
say
is
madnes
to
call
into
question
.
Hath
malice
so
blinded
you
,
and
wilfull
rage
against
the
truth
made
you
so
madd
,
that
you
feele
not
the
deadly
woundes
which
you
geue
your selfe
,
whilst
you
strike
,
or
at
least
thinke
to
strike
your
aduersarie
.
PILK
.
But
what
iuglinge
is
this
?
we
beleeue
these
bookes
to
be
theirs
whose
names
they
carrie
,
for
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
that
is
the
Pope
,
who
is
S.
Peeters
successour
,
and
holdeth
all
his
authoritie
from
him
,
and
yett
we
cannot
beleeue
S.
Peeter
himselfe
,
that
this
Epistle
is
his
,
but
because
the
present
Pope
hath
so
determined
it
.
CHAMP
.
I
cannot
say
that
you
iugle
here
you
are
so
grossely
impertinent
,
and
hoodle
vppe
so
manie
apparant
absurdities
in
these
fewe
wordes
.
Where
learned
you
I
pray
you
that
the
Pope
is
the
churche
?
or
that
he
holdeth
all
his
authoritie
from
S.
Peter
and
not
from
Christ
himselfe
?
Againe
where
doth
S
Peter
testifie
that
this
is
his
Epistle
?
haue
you
or
anie
of
your
reformed
bretheren
heard
him
say
it
?
no
such
thinge
.
Seeing
therefore
neither
you
nor
anie
man
nowe
a
liue
euer
heard
him
testifie
anie
such
thinge
,
what
great
iuglinge
is
it
I
pray
you
,
to
beleeue
a
liuely
and
liuinge
witnes
,
assisted
by
the
spiritt
of
truth
,
and
taught
by
those
who
lineallie
descended
from
S.
Peter
testifiinge
that
these
are
S.
Peters
writinges
,
rather
then
to
beleeue
a
doombe
paper
or
parchment
▪
which
might
be
written
by
some
other
as
well
as
other
thinges
,
that
went
a
broade
vnder
the
same
Apostles
name
?
And
by
that
which
hath
been
hitherto
sayde
on
both
sides
,
you
may
see
(
if
you
will
not
shut
your
eies
that
you
may
not
see
)
that
it
is
cleare
▪
(
notwithstandinge
all
your
childishe
ianglinge
)
that
all
articles
of
faith
are
not
contayned
in
scriptues
,
otherwise
then
is
mentioned
in
the
position
of
the
Manuall
:
nowe
lett
vs
see
your
answere
to
the
other
proofes
of
the
same
position
.
PILK
.
To
your
second
instance
,
we
say
with
Saint
August
.
that
we
are
not
willinge
to
moue
anie
questions
aboute
the
Mother
of
God
,
for
the
honour
we
beare
vnto
her
sonne
.
Yett
sith
you
stirre
the
coales
,
we
answere
that
it
is
an
highe
pointe
of
our
faith
,
and
sufficientlie
prooued
in
the
scriptures
,
that
Christe
was
borne
of
an
intemerat
Virgin
:
but
whether
after
his
birth
shee
were
knowne
of
Ioseph
,
thoughe
the
negatiue
be
a
seemelie
and
reuerend
truth
;
yett
we
say
with
Basill
,
that
it
toucheth
not
our
faith
.
CHAMP
.
You
woulde
seeme
to
be
religiouslie
affected
towardes
the
blessed
Virgin
,
but
notwithstandinge
you
minse
S.
Aug:
wordes
least
you
shoulde
doe
her
too
much
honour
,
his
wordes
are
these
.
De
Maria
propter
honorem
Saluatoris
nullam
cum
de
●eccatis
agitur
habere
volo
quaestionem
.
And
in
the
end
you
are
content
rather
to
incline
towardes
the
old
heretike
Heluidius
,
then
to
beleeue
with
the
holy
catholike
churche
concerninge
the
perpetuall
virginitie
of
the
blessed
Virgin
.
Where
is
nowe
I
pray
you
your
rule
of
faith
before
mentioned
,
non
credimus
PILK
.
Your
thirde
instance
is
no
article
of
faith
but
●
Canon
of
manners
,
so
in
the
number
not
of
thinges
to
be
beleeued
but
to
be
donne
.
Wherein
thoughe
to
the
Apostles
for
the
auoydinge
of
scandall
,
for
the
eatinge
of
thinges
strangled
,
and
blood
,
yett
when
the
offence
was
remoued
the
eatinge
was
allowed
.
Rom.
14.
14.
1.
Tim.
4.
4.
and
Saint
August
.
prooueth
it
out
of
S.
CHAMP
.
Are
you
so
blockishe
that
you
doe
not
,
or
so
peruerse
that
you
will
not
,
see
the
difference
betweene
the
practise
of
anie
thinge
,
and
the
doctrine
of
the
lawfulnes
of
the
same
practise
?
Whereby
you
might
be
taught
,
that
thoughe
the
first
be
not
an
article
of
faith
,
yett
the
second
may
be
.
For
example
thoughe
it
be
not
an
article
of
faith
for
two
single
persons
to
marrie
together
,
but
a
matter
of
practise
,
yett
is
it
a
matter
of
faith
that
they
may
lawfullie
marrie
together
,
as
I
hope
you
will
not
denie
,
and
so
in
fiue
hundreth
more
thinges
.
That
the
Apostles
did
make
that
prohibition
for
a
tyme
onlie
and
not
to
continue
euer
,
where
is
it
written
▪
or
whence
haue
you
it
,
but
by
the
churches
authoritie
&
interpretation
?
The
places
of
scriptures
by
▪
you
cited
(
were
they
to
the
purpose
as
they
are
not
)
woulde
be
sufficient
arguments
to
make
some
of
the
bookes
doubtfull
as
contradictinge
the
one
the
other
,
were
there
not
a
iudge
to
reconcile
them
,
and
bringe
them
to
attonement
togeather
.
And
thus
you
see
all
the
three
instances
brought
in
proofe
of
the
catholike
position
in
the
Manuall
,
to
remaine
firme
and
solide
,
and
your
euasions
to
be
childishe
wranglings
without
truth
or
substance
.
PILK
.
Thus
you
see
you
fight
against
God
,
when
you
warre
against
the
perfection
of
holy
worde
.
Which
that
you
may
more
plainlie
perceiue
in
the
last
place
I
will
sett
downe
the
protestants
doctrine
,
not
in
such
double
tearmes
as
you
deuised
,
but
theire
owne
wordes
as
they
haue
positiuelie
deliuered
with
the
seuerall
authorities
of
holy
scriptures
,
whereby
they
confirme
it
,
and
testimonies
of
fathers
,
whereby
they
shewe
the
consanguinitie
of
it
with
the
purest
Christians
.
For
the
positions
sett
downe
by
you
,
are
not
by
them
acknowledged
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
deny
my
positions
to
be
true
as
(
hauinge
hitherto
disputed
against
them
)
you
seeme
to
doe
,
then
must
you
of
necessitie
acknowledge
the
contradictorie
to
be
true
,
and
maintaine
them
as
yours
,
vnles
you
will
haue
both
contradictories
to
be
false
,
which
no
man
yett
euer
hearde
of
.
But
why
doe
you
not
put
downe
the
positions
which
I
call
the
protestants
positions
,
that
the
reader
might
see
how
iustlie
you
denie
them
to
be
yours
?
I
will
supply
your
defect
,
that
the
indifferent
reader
may
iudge
whether
the
positions
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
vnder
the
title
of
protestants
positions
,
be
not
truly
theirs
.
Manuall
,
protestant
positions
.
All
articles
of
faith
are
so
expresselie
contained
in
scriptures
as
out
of
them
onlie
full
proofe
may
be
made
thereof
.
All
articles
of
faith
are
at
least
so
contained
in
holy
scriptures
,
as
without
any
testimonie
or
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
or
traditions
they
may
thence
be
plainly
and
distinctlie
deduced
.
These
are
the
positions
in
the
Manuall
in
this
first
controuersie
vnder
the
title
of
protestant
positions
,
which
you
say
are
not
acknowledged
by
them
.
And
yett
if
I
vnderstande
your
wordes
you
admitte
them
,
neither
can
you
iu●l●e
denie
them
as
I
sayde
before
:
but
lett
vs
heare
what
you
say
for
your selfe
.
PILK
.
They
say
not
that
all
articles
of
faith
,
are
expresselie
sett
downe
in
holy
scriptures
,
but
either
expressely
or
analogicallie
,
and
so
they
haue
a
full
proofe
out
of
them
.
CHAMP
.
Compare
this
position
with
that
sett
downe
by
me
in
the
first
place
,
and
see
wherein
they
differ
.
Only
you
make
the
first
parte
of
your
position
absolute
,
as
if
it
had
been
so
set
downe
by
me
,
but
this
is
your
owne
fraude
and
deceipte
.
For
I
made
it
not
absolute
but
modall
or
comparatiue
,
as
appeareth
by
the
thinge
it selfe
.
The
position
therefore
sett
downe
by
me
is
yours
,
and
therefore
to
be
prooued
out
of
the
scriptures
▪
as
the
position
it selfe
requireth
?
●herein
if
you
fasle
,
your
position
will
be
conuinced
to
be
false
,
and
your
faith
accordinglie
.
PILK
.
Secondlie
they
admitte
of
the
testimonie
of
the
churche
both
concerninge
articles
of
faith
,
and
the
scriptures
themselues
;
First
to
discerne
true
from
false
;
Secondlie
publiklie
to
preache
them
;
Thirdlie
to
interpret
and
expounde
them
,
but
euer
accordinge
to
the
scriptures
themselues
,
without
anie
addition
of
her
owne
,
either
of
sufficiencie
or
perfection
vnto
them
.
CHAMP
.
That
is
in
good
speach
:
they
admitt
the
testimony
of
the
churche
so
farr
as
it
contradicteth
not
theire
errours
Or
they
admitte
of
it
not
to
be
iudged
by
it
,
for
so
all
disputes
woulde
quicklie
haue
an
end
;
but
to
iudge
it
themselues
,
for
so
they
knowe
they
may
wrangle
eternallie
.
PILK
.
Here
then
is
the
difference
,
that
the
papists
say
the
churche
addeth
sufficiencie
to
the
scriptures
and
fulnes
.
The
protestants
say
shee
addeth
none
,
but
sheweth
that
which
is
in
it
.
The
papists
say
shee
brought
light
vnto
them
.
The
protestants
say
shee
bringeth
none
,
but
declareth
and
manifesteth
that
which
it
hath
in
it selfe
.
This
then
is
theire
doctrine
.
CHAMP
.
The
catholikes
doe
teache
and
beleeue
that
the
churche
of
God
hath
infallible
authoritie
to
declare
what
bookes
are
holy
scripture
,
and
also
to
deliuer
the
true
sence
and
meaninge
thereof
▪
neither
of
which
the
scriptures
do
performe
by
themselues
;
and
yett
are
they
both
necessarie
if
not
to
euerie
Christian
in
particular
,
yett
to
the
whole
churche
in
generall
.
They
doe
not
teach
or
beleeue
that
the
churche
addeth
anie
truth
or
verity
to
the
scriptures
,
which
they
immediately
haue
from
God
himselfe
,
whose
word
and
reuelation
they
containe
,
but
shee
declareth
vnto
vs
infalliblie
what
are
the
verities
contayned
in
them
.
To
which
beleefe
and
doctrine
you
seeme
to
come
verie
neere
in
your
last
wordes
,
if
you
were
constant
therein
.
But
you
say
and
vnsay
at
euerie
turne
.
Nowe
lett
vs
heare
the
positions
which
you
say
the
protestants
acknowledge
in
this
controuersie
.
PILK
.
ANTITHESIS
.
All
truth
concerninge
faith
and
good
workes
necessarie
vnto
saluation
,
is
sufficientlie
and
fullie
deliuered
vnto
vs
in
the
holy
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
Seinge
you
voluntarilie
enter
combate
,
why
doe
you
not
obserue
the
conditions
prescribed
?
It
was
required
,
that
in
case
you
woulde
impugne
the
catholike
position
sett
downe
and
prooued
in
the
Manuall
(
as
hitherto
you
haue
laboured
to
doe
)
you
should
prooue
by
expresse
scriptures
the
contradictorie
,
which
in
that
case
must
necessarilie
be
yours
,
and
not
to
frame
vnto
your selfe
another
,
which
may
stand
with
that
you
impugned
,
beinge
like
a
shooe
that
fitteth
euerie
foote
.
This
I
say
,
because
the
position
sett
downe
here
by
you
vnderstoode
with
these
two
restrictons
,
is
not
denyed
of
anie
catholike
.
The
first
is
,
that
it
include
not
the
scriptures
themselues
,
but
suppose
them
as
beleeued
.
The
second
that
it
speake
onlie
of
truthes
or
articles
necessary
to
euerie
mans
saluation
.
For
these
are
fewe
and
sufficientlie
expressed
in
holy
scripture
.
Your
position
vnderstoode
in
this
mannet
hath
noe
aduersarie
,
and
therefore
needeth
not
your
feeble
and
weake
proofes
.
Neuertheles
because
your
proofes
seeme
to
suppose
a
further
meaninge
in
your
position
;
to
witt
that
all
thinges
whatsoeuer
without
exception
or
restriction
,
are
to
be
beleeued
either
by
euerie
man
in
perticular
,
or
all
men
in
generall
,
are
fullie
sett
downe
in
holy
scripture
,
which
is
opposite
to
the
catholike
position
of
the
Manuall
,
I
will
examine
your
proofes
and
try
what
weight
they
beare
.
PILK
.
Proofe
of
the
protestants
position
.
Deuteronomie
4.
2.
yee
shall
not
adde
vnto
the
worde
which
I
commaunde
you
,
neither
shall
yee
detracte
from
it
,
that
yee
may
keepe
the
commaundements
of
the
Lorde
your
God
which
I
commaunde
you
.
Argument
.
That
whereunto
nothing
must
be
added
,
nothinge
detracted
,
contayneth
a
perfect
and
full
doctrine
of
faith
and
manners
,
such
is
the
scripture
:
ergo
.
CHAMP
.
What
will
you
vnderstand
▪
by
the
(
word
)
which
God
heere
commaundeth
?
onlie
the
fiue
bookes
of
Moises
which
then
were
onlie
extant
?
If
you
vnderstande
it
so
(
as
trulie
you
cannott
otherwise
)
what
will
you
say
to
all
the
reste
of
the
bookes
,
both
of
the
ould
&
newe
testament
written
since
,
were
they
added
against
gods
commandement
?
you
will
feare
to
say
so
.
What
then
will
this
place
serue
you
for
?
to
make
a
poore
shewe
of
some
proofe
out
of
scripture
to
deceaue
your
lesse
skilfull
reader
,
and
for
noe
other
purpose
.
But
peraduenture
you
will
contend
that
it
ought
to
be
vnderstoode
of
all
that
which
God
shoulde
speake
,
aswell
after
as
before
,
and
so
to
comprehend
the
whole
scripture
.
This
sence
(
though
not
verie
probable
)
I
am
content
to
accept
of
,
that
you
may
see
I
doe
not
deale
niggardlie
with
you
.
To
your
argument
therefore
I
say
,
you
iugle
somethinge
in
itt
,
but
not
cunninglie
.
If
you
woulde
conclude
anie
thinge
out
of
this
place
of
scripture
,
you
must
say
in
your
minor
,
but
such
is
the
word
of
God
.
And
then
the
conclusion
will
be
directlie
against
your selfe
,
who
detracteth
from
gods
worde
both
written
:
denyinge
manie
and
sundrie
bookes
of
holy
scripture
,
and
also
vnwritten
,
reiectinge
all
traditions
▪
which
the
scriptures
themselues
commaunde
vs
to
receiue
.
And
so
haue
you
concluded
your selfe
a
manifest
transgressour
of
gods
lawe
and
commaundement
.
When
you
shall
answere
sufficientlie
this
argument
,
I
will
pay
you
a
fee
worthe
your
doctors
Cappe
.
PILK
.
Proofe
2.
Prou:
30.
5.
6.
Euerie
worde
of
God
is
pure
,
he
is
a
shielde
to
them
that
put
theire
trust
in
him
,
adde
you
nothinge
vnto
his
worde
,
least
he
reprooue
thee
,
and
thou
be
founde
a
lyar
.
CHAMP
.
Therefore
what
?
Therefore
all
articles
of
faith
are
fullie
deliuered
in
scripture
?
make
this
conclusion
by
lawfull
argument
but
of
this
place
,
and
I
shall
esteeme
you
a
Maister
Logician
.
But
it
is
enough
for
you
to
quote
a
place
of
scripture
thoughe
as
fitly
for
your
purpose
as
Pruritanus
doth
manie
in
your
behalfe
.
PILK
.
Proofe
3.
Reuelations
●2
.
18.
19.
I
testify
vnto
euerie
man
that
heareth
the
wordes
of
the
prophecie
of
this
booke
,
if
anie
shall
adde
vnto
these
thinges
,
God
shall
adde
vnto
him
the
plagues
that
are
written
in
this
booke
,
and
if
anie
shall
take
away
from
the
wordes
of
the
booke
of
this
prophecie
,
God
shall
take
away
his
parte
out
of
the
booke
of
life
,
and
out
of
the
holy
cittie
,
and
from
the
thinges
that
are
written
in
this
booke
.
CHAMP
.
What
if
I
should
say
with
your
Grand
Father
Luther
that
this
booke
is
apocriphall
,
and
therefore
your
proofe
of
no
worth
?
But
God
forbidd
I
should
be
so
prophane
as
to
vse
such
an
aunswere
.
I
say
therefore
that
to
conclude
anie
thinge
out
of
this
testimonie
against
me
,
you
must
conclude
not
onlie
your selfe
but
S.
Paule
also
,
and
all
the
rest
of
the
writers
of
holy
scripture
to
be
subiect
to
this
curse
here
mentioned
,
seeinge
they
haue
all
added
manie
thinges
to
this
booke
;
that
is
they
haue
taught
and
written
manie
thinges
to
be
beleeued
and
obserued
not
contayned
in
this
booke
,
which
is
the
sence
and
force
of
your
argument
and
which
you
are
bounde
to
solue
.
So
blinde
hath
heresie
made
you
,
that
you
see
not
what
is
with
you
,
what
against
you
.
PILK
.
Proofe
4.
Gal.
1.
8.
9.
Though
we
or
an
angell
from
heauen
preach
vnto
you
besides
that
we
haue
preached
,
lett
him
be
accursed
.
1.
Cor.
4.
6.
That
yee
might
learne
in
vs
not
to
be
wise
aboue
that
which
is
written
.
If
neither
an
Apostle
nor
Angell
from
heauen
may
preach
anie
thinge
besides
that
which
is
written
,
nor
be
wise
aboue
it
,
then
that
which
is
written
contayneth
a
full
doctrine
both
of
faith
and
manners
.
CHAMP
.
This
argument
is
like
the
rest
,
and
as
trulie
deducted
from
the
places
quoted
.
In
the
first
place
the
Apostle
faith
not
〈…〉
that
which
is
written
(
as
you
fraudulentlie
soist
in
)
but
besides
that
which
we
haue
preached
.
That
your
argument
therefore
may
conclude
,
you
must
shewe
out
of
scripture
that
the
Apostle
had
not
preached
anie
thinge
more
then
at
that
tyme
he
had
written
;
which
will
bee
a
taske
impossible
for
you
euer
to
performe
,
especially
In
the
second
testimonie
the
vulgar
translation
,
which
was
receiued
for
authenticall
in
S.
Hieromes
tymes
,
hath
not
these
wordes
not
to
be
wi●●
.
But
to
doe
you
a
fauour
I
will
admitte
of
your
text
;
and
I
answere
that
your
argument
is
foolish
.
For
he
that
is
wise
with
the
churche
,
teachinge
or
beleeuinge
with
the
churche
,
which
the
scriptures
testifie
to
be
the
piller
and
ground
of
truth
,
is
not
wise
aboue
that
which
is
written
,
but
conformeablie
to
that
which
is
written
.
And
thus
you
see
your
position
,
thoughe
positiue
or
affirmatiue
to
be
so
farr
from
being
prooued
by
expresse
scripture
,
that
it
hath
not
the
least
ground
therein
.
Whereas
the
positions
of
the
Manuall
,
thoughe
onlie
negatiue
haue
expresse
instances
out
of
the
holy
scripture
.
Lett
therefore
the
indifferent
and
iudicious
reader
iudge
whether
of
them
hath
greater
arguments
of
truth
.
And
if
we
should
followe
you
rule
,
non
cre●●imus
quia
●o●
ie
imus
,
howe
woulde
you
perswade
vs
to
beleeue
,
that
all
truth
pertayninge
to
●aith
and
manners
necessarie
to
saluation
is
fu●lie
deliuered
in
holy
sceipture
Seeinge
you
cannot
shewe
vs
it
written
in
anie
place
?
whereby
you
see
your selfe
either
driuen
to
disauowe
your
rule
of
beleefe
or
to
confesse
this
your
position
not
to
be
beleeued
.
But
peraduenture
you
will
make
your
proofes
stronger
out
of
the
fathers
.
Lett
vs
see
what
you
bringe
out
of
them
.
But
marke
I
pray
you
whether
they
be
expositions
of
the
places
of
scripture
cited
in
your
fauour
,
or
sayinges
vttered
vppon
other
occasions
.
If
they
be
of
the
first
sorte
,
they
will
be
more
forcible
for
you
;
but
if
they
be
of
the
other
kinde
(
as
they
are
they
will
be
of
lesse
moment
for
your
purpose
.
Well
these
they
are
.
PILK
.
Proofe
5.
All
thinges
that
our
lorde
did
are
not
written
,
but
these
thinges
which
the
writers
thought
sufficient
for
faith
and
manners
,
that
shininge
both
in
truth
of
●aith
and
vertuous
workes
we
might
come
to
the
kingdome
of
heauen
.
CHAMP
.
The
scriptures
testifyinge
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
and
of
the
pastours
thereof
,
with
the
obligation
that
euerie
one
hath
to
heare
and
obay
them
,
are
trulie
sayd
by
S.
Cyrill
to
contayne
those
thinges
which
are
sufficient
for
faith
and
manners
.
For
the
thinges
that
are
not
directlie
expressed
in
them
,
are
learned
by
the
pastours
of
the
churche
,
authorised
by
the
scriptures
.
I
maruell
you
were
not
afrayde
of
S.
Cyrill
,
seeinge
he
testifyeth
so
directlie
the
necessitie
of
good
workes
besides
faith
for
the
gayninge
of
the
kingdome
of
heauen
.
But
you
receiue
the
fathers
no
farther
then
they
seeme
to
make
for
you
,
such
is
your
sinceritie
.
PILK
.
Proofe
6.
Whatsoeuer
is
sought
for
vnto
saluation
,
all
that
is
nowe
fulfilled
in
the
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
Your
ignorance
or
peruersitie
in
this
place
is
intollerable
.
For
S.
Chrisost:
speaketh
of
the
institution
of
the
newe
testament
,
whereby
all
thinges
necessarie
to
saluation
are
fulfilled
,
and
not
of
the
scriptures
contayninge
fullie
all
thinges
necessarie
to
beleeued
.
PILK
.
Proofe
7.
We
adore
the
fulnes
of
scriptures
,
lett
Hermogenes
shewe
his
opinion
to
be
written
,
if
it
be
not
written
lett
him
feare
the
woe
denounced
to
adders
and
detractours
.
CHAMP
.
Tertullian
speaketh
of
the
fulnes
of
the
scripture
in
that
one
point
,
whereupon
he
disputed
with
that
heretike
,
&
not
in
all
other
articles
of
faith
as
is
manifest
by
the
place
it selfe
,
which
the
iudicious
reader
may
see
and
satisfy
himselfe
,
for
here
it
cannot
without
tediousnes
and
ouer
much
prolixitie
bee
sett
downe
.
PILK
.
Proofe
8.
If
anie
shall
preach
either
of
Christ
or
his
churche
,
or
of
anie
other
thinge
that
pertayneth
to
beleefe
or
life
,
I
will
not
say
,
if
we
but
that
which
Paule
addeth
,
if
an
Angell
from
heauen
shall
shew
vnto
you
besides
that
which
you
haue
receiued
in
the
scriptures
of
the
lawe
and
the
Gospell
lett
him
be
accursed
.
That
which
hath
a
fulnes
in
it
as
Tertull.
and
Chris
.
speake
,
and
contayneth
in
itt
all
thinges
pertayninge
to
faith
and
manners
as
Cyrill
and
Aug.
say
;
that
doth
fullie
prooue
all
articles
of
beleefe
and
life
such
is
the
scripture
.
CHAMP
.
S.
Aug.
wordes
haue
the
sence
and
meaninge
that
S.
Paules
haue
,
takinge
be●i●es
for
against
or
contrarie
to
the
scriptures
as
S.
August
.
explicateth
himselfe
tract.
98.
in
Ioh
before
mentioned
.
Nowe
your
argument
out
of
all
these
places
is
shewed
to
be
vayne
and
of
noe
force
by
the
particular
answere
to
euerie
authoritie
:
And
thus
farr
haue
you
brought
nothinge
more
,
for
the
proofe
of
your
position
,
them
anie
heretike
in
the
worlde
may
,
or
might
haue
brought
for
the
proofe
of
his
heresie
.
For
euerie
heretike
can
bringe
single
places
of
scripture
,
yea
and
of
fathers
in
fauour
of
his
heresie
.
But
to
bringe
scriptures
interpreted
by
the
fathers
in
fauour
of
theire
heresie
,
is
a
thinge
(
if
not
impossible
)
at
least
verie
harde
and
rare
,
beinge
the
priuiledge
of
the
catholike
churche
alone
.
PILK
.
ANTITHESIS
2.
The
scriptures
contayne
in
themselues
a
perfect
doctrine
of
saith
and
good
workes
necessarie
to
saluation
,
without
testimonie
authoritie
or
tradition
of
the
churche
,
addinge
vnto
them
or
bringinge
from
without
them
anie
other
doctrine
.
CHAMP
.
This
position
is
the
same
in
sence
(
if
either
of
them
haue
anie
sence
)
with
the
former
,
and
therefore
vainlie
is
tearmed
by
you
,
a
second
Antithesis
,
vnlesse
euerie
tyme
you
write
a
position
varyinge
a
fewe
wordes
in
it
,
but
retayninge
the
same
sence
,
you
will
say
it
is
a
newe
position
.
But
to
lett
this
passe
your
proofes
,
so
farr
as
they
make
anie
thinge
against
the
catholike
veritie
are
to
be
pondered
.
PILK
.
Proofe
1.
2.
Tim.
3.
16.
The
whole
scripture
is
diuinelie
geuen
,
and
profitable
for
doctrine
,
for
reproofe
,
for
correction
,
for
instruction
which
is
in
righteousnes
,
that
the
man
of
God
may
be
perfectlie
instructed
in
euerie
good
worke
.
That
which
perfecteth
the
man
of
God
to
euerie
good
worke
,
contayneth
perfect
doctrine
,
of
faith
and
manners
,
without
addition
of
anie
othèr
,
but
the
scriptures
do
so
:
Ergo.
CHAMP
.
It
must
needes
be
obstinacie
in
errour
,
and
not
ignoraunce
,
as
I
thinke
,
that
maketh
you
abuse
this
place
.
For
first
you
cannot
be
ignorant
,
that
the
Apostle
speaketh
there
of
the
scriptures
of
the
olde
testament
,
wherewith
S.
Timothy
was
acquainted
from
his
infancie
,
which
if
you
will
say
to
contayne
a
perfect
doctrine
,
then
is
all
the
newe
testament
either
superfluous
,
or
at
the
least
not
necessarie
.
Secondlie
the
Apostle
peaketh
not
of
the
whole
scripture
taken
together
,
but
of
euerie
parte
thereof
seuerallie
;
meaninge
that
euerie
parte
of
scripture
is
proffitable
to
teach
correct
,
and
instruct
,
which
is
true
,
but
nothinge
to
your
purpose
.
And
that
he
speaketh
not
of
the
whole
scripture
in
the
former
sence
,
but
in
the
latter
,
it
is
manifest
.
For
when
he
wrote
this
to
Timothie
,
the
whole
scripture
which
the
church
nowe
hath
,
was
not
written
.
Lastlie
lett
it
be
sayd
that
he
speaketh
it
of
the
whole
scripture
in
the
former
sence
;
yett
he
saith
no
more
but
that
it
PILK
.
Proofe
2.
Iohn
5.
35.
Search
the
scriptures
,
for
in
them
you
thinke
to
haue
eternall
life
.
Luke
16.
29.
They
haue
Moises
&
the
prophetts
lett
them
heare
them
.
That
which
teacheth
how
we
may
come
to
eternall
life
and
shunne
,
or
escape
eternall
death
,
contayneth
a
perfect
doctrine
of
faith
,
and
good
workes
;
But
the
scriptures
doe
soe
:
ergo
.
CHAMP
.
Make
your
minor
proposition
this
as
it
should
be
,
but
the
olde
Testament
doth
soe
(
for
of
the
olde
testament
onlie
these
places
speake
as
is
manifest
)
and
your
conclusion
will
serue
directlie
to
exclude
the
whole
newe
testament
from
the
perfect
rule
of
faith
Fye
,
I
am
ashamed
in
your
behalfe
of
such
childishnes
as
you
shewe
in
these
arguments
.
PILK
.
Proofe
3.
Acts
1.
1.
The
former
treatise
haue
I
made
ô
Theophilus
of
all
that
Iesus
began
to
doe
and
teach
.
These
thinges
that
Christ
did
and
taught
contayne
a
perfect
doctrine
,
but
these
thinges
are
written
.
CHAMP
.
Conclude
,
therefore
the
onlie
ghospell
of
S.
Luke
contayneth
a
perfect
doctrine
.
Is
this
your
intent
?
noe
,
but
blinde
malice
against
the
euident
truth
draweth
you
into
these
grosse
absurdities
.
If
you
haue
noe
care
of
your
soule
,
haue
yett
for
shame
some
care
of
your
credit
and
reputation
,
for
the
gayninge
of
which
you
haue
trauelled
these
fower
or
fiue
yeeres
to
bringe
foorthe
this
miserable
heape
of
vnshapen
absurdities
.
A
miserable
labour
I
wisse
,
whereby
you
gaine
nothinge
but
the
reputation
of
an
impertinent
minister
,
deuoyde
of
ordinarie
iudgment
.
To
these
fewe
testimonies
of
scripture
so
miserablie
mistaken
,
you
adde
some
passages
of
the
fathers
,
to
as
good
purpose
as
you
did
in
the
former
Antithesis
.
These
they
are
.
PILK
Proofe
4.
If
you
be
the
disciples
of
the
gospell
saith
Athanasius
speake
not
iniquitie
against
God
,
but
walke
in
those
thinges
which
are
written
or
donne
.
For
if
you
will
speake
diuers
thinges
from
these
thinges
that
are
written
,
why
striue
you
with
CHAMP
.
S.
Athanasius
speaketh
of
such
thinges
,
as
are
not
onlie
not
directly
in
scriptures
,
but
are
against
and
contrarie
to
scriptures
.
S.
Ireneus
saith
the
scriptures
beinge
spoken
by
the
spiritt
of
God
are
perfect
,
as
the
thinges
spoken
by
men
are
not
,
which
haue
imperfections
and
therefore
are
subiect
to
corrections
and
amendments
.
You
abuse
therefore
your
reader
with
an
equiuocall
tearme
of
perfect
.
PILK
Proofe
5.
The
order
of
this
present
tecture
teacheth
,
that
we
must
nott
adde
anie
thinge
to
the
diuine
precepts
,
for
if
thou
addest
or
detractest
it
is
a
preuarication
of
the
precept
.
Oftentymes
when
a
witnes
addeth
anie
thinge
of
his
owne
he
spotteth
the
whole
creditt
of
his
testimonie
with
a
lye
,
nothinge
therefore
thoughe
it
seeme
good
,
must
be
added
.
And
a
litle
after
,
if
S.
Iohn
hath
sayde
of
his
writinge
,
if
anie
man
adde
vnto
these
thinges
,
God
shall
adde
vnto
him
the
plagues
that
are
written
in
this
booke
,
and
if
anie
man
shall
take
away
from
the
worde
of
this
prophecie
,
God
shall
take
away
his
parte
from
the
booke
of
life
,
howe
much
more
nothinge
is
to
be
added
to
godds
precepts
?
CHAMP
.
That
which
is
taught
or
commended
by
the
churche
,
which
the
scripture
commandeth
vs
to
heare
,
is
not
superadded
to
gods
commandements
or
precepts
but
is
comprised
in
them
,
you
therefore
that
will
not
heare
and
obey
the
churche
,
which
you
are
so
expressely
commaunded
to
heare
,
euidentlie
and
damnablie
detract
from
diuine
precepts
.
Therefore
this
authoritie
is
so
farr
from
proouinge
anie
thinge
to
your
purpose
,
that
it
ouerthroweth
it
rather
.
PILK
Proofe
6.
O
Emperour
doost
thou
demaunde
what
our
faith
is
?
Heare
it
not
out
of
newe
papers
,
but
out
of
the
bookes
of
God
;
heare
I
pray
thee
the
thinges
that
are
written
of
Christ
,
least
,
vnder
them
those
thinges
that
are
not
written
should
be
preached
.
Open
thy
eares
to
those
thinges
that
shall
speake
out
of
the
bookes
,
lifte
vppe
thy
faith
vnto
God
,
I
will
not
defend
any
thinge
scandalous
,
nor
anie
thinge
that
is
from
without
the
gospell
.
CHAMP
.
This
authoritie
is
like
the
rest
;
impertinent
to
your
purpose
,
and
rather
against
you
then
for
you
.
For
he
that
defendeth
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
and
these
thinges
that
are
taught
by
her
,
defendeth
nothinge
from
without
the
bookes
of
God
;
but
he
that
defendeth
the
contrarie
as
you
doe
,
doth
euidently
impugne
the
gospell
.
S.
Hill
:
willeth
the
Arrian
Emperour
to
heare
these
thinges
,
that
are
written
of
Christ
as
this
,
he
is
one
with
his
father
,
and
the
like
,
and
then
he
should
be
farr
from
beleeuinge
that
which
is
no
where
written
,
to
witt
,
that
he
is
a
creature
and
inferiour
to
his
father
.
Your
cause
is
most
miserable
and
despicable
,
seeinge
it
is
forced
to
begge
testimonie
of
such
extorted
witnesses
.
And
nowe
I
leaue
to
the
iudicious
reader
,
be
he
catholicke
or
protestant
to
iudge
,
whether
the
catholicke
positions
of
this
first
controuersie
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
,
be
not
both
more
clearlie
expressed
,
and
more
firmelie
and
trulie
prooued
by
scripture
,
then
the
protestant
position
sett
downe
by
Mr.
Pilkinton
,
which
is
the
chiefe
issue
of
our
controuersie
and
dispute
.
And
further
whether
the
positions
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
vnder
the
title
of
protestant
positions
,
be
not
truly
and
iustly
ascribed
vnto
them
,
and
more
directlie
pertayninge
to
the
controuersie
heere
discussed
,
then
the
others
proposed
by
him
.
MANVALL
.
The
second
Controuersie
of
traditions
,
Catholike
position
1.
The
holy
Apostles
diliuered
by
worde
of
mouth
,
moe
thinges
to
be
beleeued
&
obserued
by
the
churche
,
then
either
they
found
written
or
wrote
themselues
.
And
these
thinges
are
vsuallie
called
traditions
.
PILK
.
You
haue
gotten
a
wolfe
by
the
eare
,
when
you
fasten
on
traditions
,
if
you
lett
them
goe
they
carrie
with
them
a
great
parte
of
your
faith
,
if
you
holde
them
fast
,
you
shewe
you
cannot
prooue
your
faith
from
scriptures
.
For
you
freelie
and
plainlie
tell
vs
what
your
churche
meaneth
by
traditions
;
not
interpretation
of
that
which
is
written
,
but
addition
and
suppliment
of
that
which
is
not
.
For
moe
thinges
say
you
,
are
to
be
beleeued
and
obserued
then
either
the
Apostles
wrote
or
founde
written
,
and
these
are
traditions
.
Let
the
reader
marke
this
;
for
the
question
here
betwixt
vs
,
is
not
of
interpretation
of
scriptures
,
nor
of
rites
and
ceremonies
,
that
haue
correspondence
with
them
,
which
here
he
carrieth
vnder
the
name
of
thinges
to
be
obserued
,
but
of
doctrines
and
matters
of
faith
,
which
are
thinges
to
be
beleeued
all
which
(
saith
he
)
were
neuer
written
in
the
old
testament
,
nor
yet
in
the
newe
.
CHAMP
.
You
putt
me
in
minde
of
the
fable
of
the
fox
that
hauinge
lost
his
owne
tayle
,
would
needes
perswade
his
fellowes
to
cutt
of
theires
.
So
you
beinge
out
of
loue
with
traditions
,
woulde
perswade
vs
to
reiect
them
also
.
But
we
are
not
so
soone
moued
,
we
professe
to
beleeue
diuerse
things
for
traditions
sake
,
and
that
by
warrant
of
scripture
.
whereunto
if
you
did
geue
so
much
creditt
as
you
would
be
thought
to
doe
,
you
woulde
also
beleeue
the
same
.
And
seing
you
yeeld
alreadie
the
one
halfe
of
the
controuersie
,
to
witt
traditions
of
thinges
to
be
obserued
(
for
of
these
thinges
you
say
there
is
no
question
betweene
vs
)
I
will
not
dispaire
to
euict
the
other
part
,
of
thinges
also
to
be
beleeued
,
from
you
.
PILK
.
Nowe
this
is
a
manifest
vntruth
.
For
there
is
not
anie
article
of
faith
,
which
the
Apostles
founde
not
in
the
scriptures
of
the
prophetts
,
nor
which
either
the
euangelists
or
themselues
,
did
not
consigne
vnto
vs
in
theire
writings
,
which
thinge
any
man
may
finde
to
be
true
,
that
will
take
paines
to
consider
the
articles
of
the
Apostolike
creede
,
one
by
one
,
which
either
haue
proofe
out
of
the
ould
testament
,
or
else
the
Apostles
did
not
double
all
theire
doctrines
out
of
the
scriptures
.
Contrary
to
S.
Paules
practise
,
acts
.
26.
22.
CHAMP
.
Howe
manifest
an
vntruth
it
is
that
the
Apostles
taught
more
then
either
they
found
written
or
wrot
themselues
,
we
shall
see
,
in
the
processe
of
this
controuersie
.
In
the
meane
while
I
tell
you
that
you
affirme
boldlie
but
prooue
nothinge
.
And
why
doe
you
referr
vs
to
the
Apostles
creede
for
proofe
of
your
vniuersall
affirmation
?
Is
nothinge
to
be
beleeued
but
that
which
is
therein
contayned
?
what
find
you
(
I
pray
you
)
in
the
creede
touchinge
either
the
number
or
the
nature
of
the
Sacraments
,
of
theire
efficacie
or
necessitie
,
of
originall
sinne
,
of
the
fall
of
the
Angells
,
with
manie
moe
articles
beleeued
by
all
christians
?
And
yett
you
confirme
your
proofe
farr
more
absurdlie
,
by
supposinge
that
the
Apostles
doubled
(
that
is
your
worde
where
you
learned
it
I
knowe
not
)
al
theire
doctrine
out
of
scripture
:
which
is
the
thinge
in
question
and
therefore
most
absurdlie
brought
for
proofe
of
the
same
.
Againe
what
necessitie
had
the
Apostles
to
double
theire
doctrine
(
as
you
say
)
out
of
the
scriptures
?
Hadd
they
not
authoritie
to
preach
anie
thinge
but
what
they
founde
alreadie
in
the
scriptures
?
What
Christian
euer
dreamed
of
such
doctrine
as
you
haue
deliuered
here
?
But
this
was
S.
Paules
practise
you
say
.
But
you
are
either
ignorantlie
or
wilfullie
mistaken
and
that
most
grosselie
.
For
thoughe
S.
Paule
and
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
preached
nothinge
contrarie
to
the
doctrine
of
the
old
testament
,
but
contrariwise
shewed
howe
the
auncient
prophecies
were
fulfilled
by
our
Sauiour
Christ
(
which
S.
Paules
auditours
at
Boerea
findinge
,
by
conferinge
his
doctrine
with
the
prophets
,
were
much
confirmed
in
theire
faith
)
yett
is
it
noe
where
sayd
,
that
either
he
or
the
rest
preached
nothinge
but
that
they
founde
written
.
Neither
did
this
paradoxe
euer
enter
into
anie
mans
heade
but
Mr.
Pilkintons
.
PILK
.
Reade
saith
Ireneus
diligentlie
the
Gospell
,
which
the
Apostles
haue
geuen
vs
,
and
read
also
diligentlie
the
prophetts
,
and
you
shall
finde
all
the
actions
and
passions
of
our
lorde
,
yea
all
his
doctrine
for
to
be
preached
,
your
proofes
haue
as
much
truth
as
the
Carthaginians
faith
.
CHAMP
.
S.
Ireneus
saith
no
more
but
that
there
is
a
great
and
manifest
conformitie
or
agreement
,
betweene
the
Prophetts
and
Apostles
preachinge
and
doctrine
,
which
as
it
is
most
true
,
so
is
it
as
much
to
your
purpose
as
Paules
steeple
is
to
Charinge
Crosse
.
And
whether
my
proofes
or
yours
haue
more
affinitie
with
the
Carthaginian
faith
,
lett
the
indifferent
reader
iudge
.
MANVALL
.
Proofe
of
the
catholike
position
.
1.
Hauinge
moe
thinges
to
write
vnto
PILK
.
These
well
conclude
,
that
in
this
shorte
Epistle
S.
Iohn
did
not
write
all
the
poyntes
of
faith
,
but
that
others
of
the
Apostles
did
not
write
them
he
saith
not
a
word
.
What
loose
reasoninge
is
this
?
S.
Iohn
did
not
write
all
in
these
Epistles
,
therefore
the
rest
did
not
;
For
whatsoeuer
is
necessarie
vnto
saluation
,
and
of
faith
though
there
it
be
not
to
be
found
,
yet
in
the
writings
of
the
other
Apostles
it
is
to
be
read
.
CHAMP
.
Seeinge
I
haue
by
your
confession
prooued
out
of
the
scripture
,
that
this
Apostle
taught
moe
thinges
by
worde
o●
mouth
then
he
wrote
(
which
was
my
Position
)
it
nowe
belongeth
to
you
,
either
to
graunt
my
position
to
be
true
,
or
to
prooue
by
scriptures
that
the
rest
of
the
Apostles
wrote
that
which
he
taught
by
worde
of
mouth
,
and
omitted
to
write
:
For
to
say
it
only
without
proofe
,
yea
and
such
as
you
require
of
your
aduersarie
is
to
make
your
owne
affirmation
à
lawe
and
rule
of
your
faith
.
Which
though
it
appeareth
well
to
be
so
,
to
your selfe
,
yett
will
it
not
be
admitted
of
others
.
And
if
I
should
here
againe
presse
you
with
your
owne
rule
;
non
eredimus
quia
non
●eg●nous
;
you
would
find
ei
〈…〉
your
rule
too
strickt
,
or
your
assertion
here
(
that
the
other
Apostles
committed
to
writinge
,
that
which
S.
Iohn
taughte
by
worde
and
omitted
to
write
)
to
be
false
.
Choose
whether
parte
you
will
.
You
see
therfore
that
my
reasoninge
was
not
loose
,
but
that
your
iudgment
thereon
was
light
.
Your
reason
followinge
,
is
a
miserable
begginge
of
that
which
is
in
question
,
and
which
you
should
prooue
,
and
is
more
easilie
and
trulie
denyed
then
affirmed
.
And
for
your
better
instruction
I
wish
you
to
marke
a
litle
more
diligentlie
the
wordes
of
the
Apostle
,
and
you
will
(
as
I
suppose
)
perceiue
the
argument
to
be
of
more
force
then
you
tooke
it
to
be
of
,
vnles
you
dissembled
.
For
he
giuinge
the
reason
why
he
would
not
vse
paper
and
inke
,
to
make
knowne
vnto
them
to
whome
he
wrote
those
thinges
which
he
had
to
teache
them
,
he
saith
not
,
that
it
is
for
that
either
he
himselfe
or
anie
of
the
other
Apostles
had
or
woulde
sett
them
downe
in
writinge
,
but
because
he
hoped
to
be
with
them
,
and
to
speake
vnto
them
mouth
to
mouth
.
Manuall
Proofe
2.
And
the
rest
I
will
dispose
when
I
come
.
Where
the
Apostle
euidently
sheweth
,
that
he
reserued
something
more
to
be
ordayneth
by
worde
then
he
wrote
.
PILK
.
This
is
litle
to
the
purpose
,
for
the
Apostle
doth
not
there
speake
of
matters
of
faith
,
which
is
our
question
,
but
of
such
things
as
belonge
to
order
and
comelines
,
as
it
is
playne
by
the
word
in
greeke
which
properlie
signifieth
orderinge
of
rites
,
and
matters
of
decencie
,
not
teachinge
of
doctrines
and
matters
of
faith
,
as
appeareth
〈◊〉
the
same
epist:
cap.
16.
1.
concerninge
the
ga●●●●inge
for
the
Saincts
,
as
I
haue
geuen
order
to
the
churches
of
Galatia
,
euen
so
doe
yee
.
The
CHAMP
.
Your
second
answere
to
this
testimonie
is
effectuallie
frustrated
in
my
reply
to
your
answere
of
the
precedent
testimonie
,
and
therefore
needeth
no
further
confutation
.
Your
former
answere
(
admittinge
it
in
your
owne
sence
)
doth
expresselie
graunt
traditions
in
matters
to
be
obserued
,
and
practised
in
the
churche
,
which
seeinge
they
concerne
the
vse
of
the
Sacraments
,
and
other
holy
obseruations
to
be
kept
by
all
Christians
established
and
ordayned
by
the
Apostles
by
the
expresse
commaundement
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
.
Matt.
28.
20.
I
would
knowe
of
you
some
reason
why
you
deny
the
authoritie
of
traditions
in
thinges
to
be
beleeued
,
and
graunt
them
in
matters
to
be
donne
and
obserued
,
will
you
say
that
they
are
more
fallible
in
the
one
,
then
in
the
other
?
To
say
this
onlie
without
some
ground
or
reason
,
will
haue
small
grace
or
force
.
Manuall
.
Proofe
3.
The
Apostles
were
commanded
to
teache
all
nations
to
obserue
all
thinges
which
our
Sauiour
had
commanded
.
Which
doubtles
they
fulfilled
,
but
they
were
not
commanded
in
anie
place
to
write
all
the
same
:
neither
doth
it
appeare
by
anie
scripture
that
they
did
write
all
thinges
which
they
taught
men
to
beleeue
and
obserue
.
This
is
a
demonstration
that
they
taught
more
then
they
wrote
,
if
nothinge
be
to
beleeued
but
that
which
is
contayned
in
holy
scripture
.
PILK
.
That
Christe
charged
the
Apostles
to
teach
all
nations
whatsoeuer
he
commanded
,
which
they
fulfilled
also
,
but
he
charged
them
no
where
to
CHAMP
.
Stande
to
your
grounde
and
doe
not
flinche
from
it
,
you
say
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
but
that
which
is
written
.
If
you
will
therefore
that
it
should
be
beleeued
that
the
Apostles
wrot
all
things
they
taught
,
shewe
it
written
,
or
acknowledge
your
ground
to
be
false
.
The
scripture
testifieth
that
the
Apostles
were
commanded
to
teach
all
thinges
necessarie
to
be
obserued
,
but
that
they
were
commaunded
to
write
the
same
,
it
no
where
appeareth
.
If
therefore
they
did
it
,
either
they
did
it
by
Christs
commaundement
,
and
then
you
must
needes
confesse
something
necessarie
to
be
beleeued
more
then
is
written
;
for
it
is
no
where
written
that
he
commaunded
them
to
write
all
thinges
they
taught
.
Or
they
did
it
without
his
commaundement
.
And
then
it
was
not
necessarie
they
shoulde
doe
it
,
and
consequentlie
was
it
not
necessarie
there
should
be
anie
thinge
written
at
all
in
the
newe
testament
.
And
thoughe
they
writte
nothinge
but
that
was
inspired
into
them
,
yea
&
that
they
were
inspired
to
write
,
both
which
thinges
you
beleeue
,
thoughe
you
finde
neither
of
them
written
,
yett
it
no
where
appeareth
,
that
they
were
inspired
to
write
all
they
had
by
inspiration
.
You
say
the
fathers
shall
answere
for
you
;
but
I
receiue
not
theire
answere
as
sufficient
,
vnles
you
will
stande
to
the
fathers
testimonie
in
all
other
points
.
You
promised
scripture
for
all
your
positions
,
performe
therefore
your
promise
,
or
confesse
your
position
of
beleeuinge
nothinge
but
that
which
is
written
,
to
be
false
.
Notwithstandinge
because
the
testimonie
of
the
fathers
is
venerable
with
me
,
I
will
not
refuse
it
if
they
say
anie
thinge
for
you
.
But
neither
of
the
fathers
cited
by
you
saith
,
that
the
Apostles
wrote
all
they
preached
,
which
is
our
issue
heere
.
And
as
fo●
the
former
to
witt
S.
Ireneus
,
you
haue
his
plaine
meaninge
layd
downe
vnto
you
before
in
the
beginninge
of
our
dispute
,
to
witt
,
in
the
answere
to
your
second
Antithesis
which
you
frame
out
of
these
selfe
same
wordes
of
S.
Ireneus
.
And
as
for
S.
Aug.
he
saith
not
that
Christ
commanded
to
bee
written
whatsoeuer
he
woulde
haue
vs
to
beleeue
of
him
,
or
his
workes
,
but
onlie
whatsoeuer
he
woulde
haue
vs
to
reade
;
Which
is
most
true
.
For
he
could
not
will
that
we
shoulde
read
anie
thinge
but
that
which
was
written
.
But
lett
vs
yeelde
yett
further
vnto
you
,
and
suppose
these
fathers
to
say
as
much
for
your
purpose
as
you
would
haue
(
which
you
see
is
farr
otherwise
)
yett
woulde
I
aske
,
you
where
they
had
that
doctrine
?
not
from
the
scripture
,
for
no
such
thinge
appeareth
therein
.
If
therefore
you
will
admitte
of
theire
doctrine
,
though
not
taken
out
of
the
scripture
,
why
doe
you
professe
that
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
,
but
that
which
is
written
and
contayned
in
the
scripture
.
And
thus
you
see
your selfe
so
inuolued
with
your
doctrine
,
that
you
can
finde
noe
way
to
escape
some
manifest
absurditie
.
Manuall
.
Proofe
4.
They
(
the
Apostles
)
taught
baptisme
giuen
to
infants
to
be
good
and
lawfull
,
or
else
the
Anabaptists
are
not
heretikes
for
rebaptisinge
them
.
PILK
.
The
Baptisme
of
infants
may
by
good
and
necessarie
consequence
be
deriued
from
the
scriptures
otherwise
your
friend
Bellarmine
hath
brought
chaffie
arguments
against
the
Anabaptists
.
The
first
is
from
the
figure
of
the
olde
testament
,
children
were
circumcised
,
therefore
they
ought
to
be
baptised
:
this
is
so
stronge
saith
he
that
it
cannot
be
eluded
.
The
second
is
taken
out
of
the
thirde
of
Iohn
.
Except
a
man
be
borne
againe
of
water
and
the
holy
Ghost
,
he
cannot
enter
into
the
kingdome
of
heauen
.
Whereunto
may
be
added
Christs
commaundment
Matt.
19.
14.
Suffer
little
children
to
come
vnto
me
,
for
of
such
is
the
kingdome
of
heauen
.
And
in
howe
manie
places
doth
S.
Aug.
prooue
from
the
holy
scriptures
,
the
necessitie
of
Baptisme
against
the
Pelagians
,
who
imagininge
children
to
be
without
original
sinne
,
thought
it
vnnecessarie
;
wheras
he
sheweth
out
of
Iohn
that
without
it
originall
sinne
is
not
remitted
,
and
therefore
if
it
be
needfull
certainlie
it
is
lawfull
.
CHAMP
.
The
arguments
vsed
by
Bellarmine
are
not
chaffie
but
substantially
good
,
because
they
are
taken
from
the
scripture
interpreted
by
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
,
and
the
canonicall
practise
thereof
,
receiued
from
the
Apostles
,
which
is
sufficient
to
prooue
the
Anabaptists
to
be
heretike
denyinge
the
Baptisme
of
infants
to
be
lawfull
.
And
seeing
you
confesse
the
testimonie
of
the
3.
of
S.
Iohn
to
be
so
effectuall
to
prooue
the
lawfulnes
of
the
Baptisme
of
infants
,
you
must
likwise
confesse
Caluin
and
all
his
followers
to
be
heretikes
.
For
he
denyeth
the
necessity
of
Baptisme
to
saluation
which
is
much
more
clearlie
prooued
out
of
that
place
,
then
is
the
Baptisme
of
infants
.
And
so
whilst
you
woulde
auoyde
one
euill
you
fall
into
a
worse
.
The
same
inconuenience
followeth
against
you
vppon
the
argument
of
S.
August
.
For
if
he
prooue
rightlie
against
the
Pelagians
that
Baptisme
is
necessarie
;
he
concludeth
directlie
against
your
Master
Caluin
.
Yea
against
the
doctrine
deliuered
in
the
first
dayes
conference
of
Hampton
Courte
.
Read
it
and
see
whether
I
say
not
true
.
Manuall
Proofe
6.
They
(
the
Apostles
)
taught
the
sunday
to
be
solemnised
and
the
Iewes
Sabboth
to
be
lefte
without
all
solemnitie
.
Thoughe
moste
strictly
commaunded
by
God
to
be
solemnised
as
an
euerlastinge
Couenant
.
PILK
.
The
obseruation
of
the
sunday
and
alteration
from
the
Iewishe
Sabboth
we
finde
written
in
the
scriptures
.
For
Iohn
tearmeth
it
the
Lordes
day
;
not
onlie
for
that
it
was
consecrated
to
his
publike
seruice
,
but
for
that
he
was
the
instituter
CHAMP
.
Here
you
exceede
your selfe
in
impertinencie
and
wilfull
obstinacie
.
If
I
should
haue
brought
out
of
the
scriptures
for
traditions
such
proofes
as
you
doe
to
ouerthrowe
them
,
you
would
make
sporte
therat
,
and
worthelie
,
saying
they
were
not
onlie
loose
arguinge
,
but
verie
seelie
Sophistrie
,
S.
Iohn
tearmeth
one
day
,
the
Lordes
day
,
ergo
say
you
the
scripture
testifieth
the
abrogation
of
the
Iewes
Sabboth
,
and
establishment
of
the
sunday
,
and
that
fully
,
for
of
full
proofe
and
testimonie
wee
here
dispute
.
Againe
the
Apostle
willed
the
Corrinthians
euerie
first
day
of
the
weeke
to
lay
a
side
by
themselues
&c.
Ergo
say
you
the
Apostle
did
not
onlie
teach
by
voice
,
but
by
writinge
also
the
obseruation
of
the
christians
sunday
insteede
of
the
Iewishe
Sabboth
.
These
are
your
best
and
strongest
arguments
in
this
matter
,
which
if
you
trulie
thinke
to
be
fully
sufficient
of
themselues
,
to
prooue
that
you
desire
;
with
what
face
or
conscience
can
you
reiect
the
proofes
of
expresse
scripture
and
cleare
instances
brought
for
the
catholike
position
,
as
not
sufficient
to
prooue
the
same
?
Manuall
Proofe
6.
They
deliuered
and
taught
the
creede
by
worde
of
mouthe
and
not
in
writinge
,
which
from
theire
tyme
till
nowe
hath
continued
in
the
churche
by
tradition
onlie
.
PILK
.
The
creede
we
confesse
the
Apostles
taught
,
and
finde
euerie
parcell
and
portion
thereof
in
theire
writings
,
which
if
you
denie
we
can
quickelie
make
good
.
S.
Aug.
telleth
vs
so
much
.
These
wordes
which
you
haue
hearde
(
he
speaketh
of
the
Simboll
)
are
scattered
in
the
holy
scriptures
;
from
them
collected
and
reduced
into
one
,
to
helpe
the
memorie
of
dull
men
.
But
here
you
delude
your
reader
againe
with
a
triflinge
Homonomie
of
this
worde
creede
.
For
if
thereby
you
meane
wordes
and
sillables
,
then
it
is
true
,
that
the
Apostles
vse
not
in
theire
writings
,
some
wordes
expressed
in
the
creede
,
neither
is
it
necessarie
to
beleeue
that
they
wrote
the
wordes
thereof
,
and
then
it
is
not
to
the
purpose
to
proue
your
position
,
which
is
of
thinges
to
be
beleeued
,
and
not
of
wordes
.
But
if
by
the
creede
you
vnderstande
the
matter
of
it
,
and
thinges
to
be
beleeued
,
then
it
is
vntrue
that
the
Apostles
writte
it
not
,
and
all
thinges
contayned
therein
;
which
thinges
haue
continued
in
our
churche
as
the
obiect
of
our
faith
,
not
for
tradition
onlie
,
as
you
ignorantly
say
,
but
because
they
are
recorded
in
the
holy
scripture
.
CHAMP
.
Shewe
me
then
in
theire
writings
,
I
meane
the
Apostles
,
the
discention
of
our
Sauiour
into
hell
;
and
the
catholicke
churche
,
which
Luther
loued
so
little
,
that
he
turned
it
the
christian
churche
.
Thoughe
we
beleeue
not
onlie
the
parcells
of
the
creede
,
but
the
whole
creede
together
.
And
that
the
Apostles
made
it
,
which
is
no
where
expressed
in
scripture
.
And
if
I
say
ignorantlie
that
the
creede
as
it
is
composed
by
the
Apostles
and
therefore
receiued
and
beleeued
of
all
christians
in
al
ages
,
hath
continued
in
the
church
vntill
this
day
by
tradition
only
;
shewe
it
me
written
in
the
scriptures
,
and
I
will
confesse
myne
ignorance
,
and
correct
my
wordes
.
But
seeinge
you
cannot
performe
that
,
I
tell
you
,
that
you
impudentlie
affirme
that
it
hath
other
continuance
then
by
tradition
,
opposinge
tradition
to
the
canonicall
scripture
onlie
.
Manuall
.
Proofe
7.
They
taught
Baptisme
administred
by
heretikes
to
be
good
;
and
therefore
S.
Aug.
speakinge
thereof
saith
.
Manie
thinges
which
are
not
found
in
the
Apostles
writinges
nor
in
the
latter
councells
,
yet
because
they
are
obserued
by
the
whole
churche
,
are
beleeued
to
be
deliuered
and
recommended
by
none
but
by
them
.
Againe
he
saith
.
There
are
manie
thinges
which
the
whole
church
doth
hold
,
and
therefore
are
well
beleeued
to
be
commaunded
by
the
Apostles
,
albeyt
they
be
not
found
written
.
PILK
.
That
Baptisme
ministred
by
heretikes
,
was
preached
by
the
Apostles
,
but
not
written
,
hath
as
much
truth
as
the
rest
.
For
whereas
Cyprian
hath
taught
,
that
Baptisme
of
heretikes
was
not
good
,
and
therefore
to
be
reiterated
,
S.
Aug.
crosseth
him
and
prooueth
the
contrarie
out
of
the
ghospell
,
and
out
of
the
wordes
of
the
Apostle
Ephe.
4.
And
this
is
so
frequent
with
that
father
,
that
it
maketh
me
thinke
you
haue
not
read
him
of
that
argument
,
but
gleaned
out
of
others
that
might
serue
your
turne
.
So
p●lpably
are
you
deceiued
to
thinke
that
S.
August
:
conceiued
this
to
be
an
vnwritten
tradition
without
ground
of
scripture
,
for
thus
he
writeth
.
(
That
I
may
not
seeme
to
prooue
it
by
humane
arguments
,
I
will
bringe
foorth
certayne
documents
out
of
the
scripture
)
.
And
whereas
Cyprian
had
taught
,
that
for
proofe
of
this
we
must
haue
recourse
vnto
the
fountayne
of
Apostolicall
tradition
,
that
is
the
scriptures
,
S.
Aug:
approoueth
it
,
and
saith
that
the
Apostles
deliuered
,
that
there
is
one
God
,
one
Christe
,
one
baptisme
,
and
therefore
baptisme
of
heretikes
is
firme
,
and
not
to
be
repeated
.
When
then
he
saith
of
this
as
of
other
thinges
,
that
they
are
not
founde
in
the
Apostles
writinges
,
nor
in
latter
councells
&c.
And
there
be
manie
thinges
which
the
whole
churche
doth
holde
,
and
therfore
are
well
beleeued
to
be
commended
by
the
Apostles
,
albeyt
they
be
not
found
written
.
Which
wordes
are
in
his
2.
booke
contra
Donatistas
and
not
lib.
5.
cap.
27.
as
you
cited
them
.
His
meaninge
is
they
are
not
written
in
so
manie
wordes
,
but
the
groundes
of
them
are
layd
in
the
scriptures
and
thence
necessarilie
they
may
be
concluded
.
This
is
playne
out
of
Aug.
for
hauinge
vttered
these
wordes
vrged
by
you
,
when
he
draweth
to
an
ende
of
this
disputation
,
he
thus
concludeth
.
It
might
suffice
that
our
reasons
beinge
so
often
repeated
and
diuerselie
debated
and
handled
in
disputinge
,
and
the
documents
of
holy
scripture
beinge
added
,
and
so
manie
testimonies
of
Cyprian
concurringe
.
By
this
tyme
I
thinke
the
weaker
sorte
of
men
vnderstande
,
that
the
baptisme
of
Christe
cannot
be
violated
,
by
the
peruersnes
of
the
partie
that
geueth
or
receiueth
it
.
Loe
howe
be
bringeth
documents
out
of
scripture
,
to
prooue
that
the
peruersnes
of
heretikes
,
peruerteth
not
the
baptisme
of
Christe
,
and
therfore
baptisme
ministred
by
hereticks
is
good
.
CHAMP
.
Is
it
be
written
by
the
Apostles
that
the
Baptisme
of
heretikes
is
sufficient
,
and
not
to
be
reiterated
,
why
doe
not
you
shewe
the
place
and
confound
your
aduersarie
?
But
you
had
rather
impudentlie
affirme
an
vntruth
,
than
ingeniously
acknowledg
a
cleare
veritie
.
As
thoughe
if
it
hadd
been
so
clearly
&
fully
taught
in
holy
scripture
,
as
you
are
bound
to
shewe
it
,
S.
Cyprian
who
had
a
much
iudgment
to
discerne
it
as
you
att
least
,
and
noe
lesse
good
will
to
acknowledge
it
,
nor
yett
lesse
industrie
and
diligence
to
seeke
it
,
could
not
he
haue
esped
it
?
And
howsoeuer
here
you
wilfullie
wrangle
out
of
S.
Aug:
as
though
he
acknowledged
not
the
Baptisme
of
heretikes
by
tradition
,
yett
two
pages
after
,
you
in
expresse
wordes
confesse
,
that
he
saith
:
neither
baptisme
of
infants
,
nor
by
heretikes
are
written
in
scripture
.
And
though
you
interpret
him
both
here
and
there
,
to
meane
that
they
are
not
founde
written
in
so
manie
wordes
,
but
that
the
groundes
notwithstandinge
from
whence
they
may
be
necessarilie
concluded
are
layd
in
the
scriptures
;
yett
is
this
your
glosse
meerelie
voluntarie
,
clearlie
against
S.
August
:
meaninge
and
common
sence
.
Or
i●
not
,
why
doe
not
you
frame
some
argument
which
by
necessary
consequence
may
conclude
out
of
the
groundes
layd
in
scripture
,
abstractinge
from
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
and
tradition
,
either
of
these
two
articles
?
But
it
is
more
easie
for
you
to
affirme
twentie
positions
,
then
to
prooue
one
.
Manuall
catholike
position
.
2.
The
Catholike
churche
doth
,
and
ought
to
beleeue
those
thinges
which
the
Apostles
deliuered
by
worde
of
mouth
without
writinge
,
in
the
same
degree
of
faith
with
those
that
are
written
.
PILK
.
For
answere
vnto
this
,
lett
the
iudicious
reader
de
non
ente
.
For
that
there
is
nothinge
or
faith
nowe
,
which
the
Apostles
did
not
after
they
preached
either
finde
or
leaue
in
writinge
vnto
the
churche
,
and
these
beinge
deliuered
at
first
,
partely
by
liuelie
voyce
,
partely
by
letters
,
were
to
be
embraced
with
like
acceptance
and
creditt
.
But
if
he
meane
these
secret
doctrines
deliuered
a
parte
,
and
only
by
worde
,
neuer
by
them
written
,
then
we
denie
that
the
Apostles
left
any
such
thinge
equallie
to
be
credited
,
with
the
holy
scriptures
,
neither
the
allegations
inferre
anie
such
matter
.
CHAMP
.
You
haue
here
multiplyed
a
greate
heape
of
vnnecessarie
wordes
,
making
the
thinge
obscure
,
which
of
it selfe
is
cleare
enough
.
The
question
is
not
now
(
as
you
say
)
whether
the
Apostles
taught
not
more
by
word
of
mouth
(
whether
in
secret
or
in
publicke
,
that
importeth
not
)
that
,
hauinge
been
disputed
before
,
and
prooued
against
you
.
But
of
what
authoritie
the
thinges
deliuered
only
by
worde
of
mouth
are
,
of
which
question
you
haue
the
beleefe
of
the
catholicke
churche
sett
downe
directlie
in
the
position
of
the
Manuall
,
and
the
proofe
thereof
out
of
expresse
scripture
,
whereunto
lett
vs
heare
your
answere
.
Manuall
.
Proofe
1.
Therefore
brethren
stand
and
holde
the
traditions
which
you
haue
learned
,
whether
it
be
by
worde
or
by
our
.
Epistle
S.
Basill
saith
I
account
it
Apostolike
to
continue
PILK
.
To
your
first
testimonie
,
if
I
shoulde
answere
that
S.
Paule
meaneth
not
he
deliuered
some
thinges
by
writinge
,
somethings
by
worde
only
,
but
the
very
same
by
both
,
first
preachinge
it
,
and
after
writinge
,
it
would
trouble
you
to
prooue
the
contrarie
.
For
the
disiunctiue
(
whether
)
argueth
not
diuersitie
of
thinges
deliuered
,
but
diuers
wayes
of
deliueringe
the
same
,
as
in
other
places
Rom.
14.
8.
whether
we
liue
or
whether
we
dye
,
wee
are
the
lordes
:
it
followeth
not
dying
we
are
one
,
and
liuinge
we
are
another
1.
Cor.
5.
11.
whether
I
or
they
,
so
we
preach
,
and
therefore
Paule
preached
one
gospell
,
the
Apostles
another
.
CHAMP
.
You
doe
wiselie
not
to
stand
much
vppon
your
newe
inuention
,
least
to
your
owne
companions
you
might
become
ridiculous
,
neither
though
you
should
stande
there
vppon
,
shoulde
it
putt
me
to
much
trouble
to
prooue
the
contrary
:
vnles
to
establishe
your
noueltie
you
woulde
thinke
to
inuert
the
common
and
vsuall
manner
of
speakinge
and
vnderstandinge
of
all
men
.
For
the
disiunctiue
(
whether
)
doth
alwayes
signifie
the
diuersitie
of
the
thinge
ioyned
with
it
,
as
is
manifest
euen
in
your
examples
,
whether
we
liue
or
dye
;
whether
I
or
they
:
but
so
as
one
and
the
same
thinge
is
affirmed
of
them
both
,
&
so
it
is
in
our
testimonie
as
also
in
these
sayinges
followinge
;
retayne
the
goods
you
haue
receiued
whether
in
money
or
marchandise
.
Keepe
the
present
I
sent
you
,
whether
in
Iewells
or
in
plaie
With
fiue
thousand
moe
.
And
it
is
a
ridiculous
conceipt
to
thinke
,
that
the
Apostle
commended
vnto
his
disciple
the
same
thinges
both
written
and
preached
:
in
which
sence
his
sayinge
shoulde
be
no
more
disiunctiue
but
copulatiue
in
this
manner
,
hold
those
thinges
which
you
haue
learned
both
by
worde
and
Epistle
:
Which
is
not
to
interprett
the
Apostle
,
but
manifestly
to
corrupt
him
.
Seeinge
therefore
you
dare
not
stand
vppon
this
interpretation
,
let
vs
heare
your
auowed
answere
.
PILK
.
But
I
adde
that
if
one
vnderstand
these
thinges
of
diuerse
pointes
of
Christian
religion
,
which
S.
Paule
deliuered
vnto
the
Thessalon●ans
and
writte
them
not
:
it
will
not
followe
,
that
other
Apostles
writte
them
not
,
and
still
your
thesis
is
de
non
ente
this
testimonie
is
to
no
purpose
,
sith
what
point
of
doctrine
Paule
deliuered
by
voyce
,
we
finde
recorded
in
the
scriptures
.
CHAMP
.
It
followeth
right
well
that
the
other
Apostles
writte
not
these
thinge
which
S.
Paule
deliuered
onlie
by
worde
.
if
your
rule
be
true
,
non
credimus
quia
non
●egimios
For
it
is
noe
where
written
that
they
wrote
those
thinges
;
therefore
accordinge
to
your
doctrine
,
not
to
be
beleeued
.
Againe
I
hauinge
prooued
by
expresse
scripture
interpreted
by
the
fathers
,
that
the
Apostle
taught
somethinge
more
then
he
wrote
,
and
commanded
it
to
be
beleeued
equally
with
his
writinge
(
which
is
the
position
of
the
Manuall
)
it
behooueth
you
that
maintayne
the
contrarie
,
to
prooue
it
by
expresse
scripture
,
or
else
to
confesse
that
the
catholike
doctrine
hath
better
and
more
firme
ground
in
the
scripture
then
Protestantisme
.
You
prooue
brauely
my
thesis
to
be
de
non
en●e
,
and
the
proofe
thereof
to
be
to
no
purpose
,
by
your
ordinarie
miserable
,
absurde
,
and
ridiculous
begginge
of
that
which
is
in
question
,
&
supposinge
that
for
true
and
graunted
,
which
is
expresselie
denyed
But
to
such
shameful
shifts
is
falsitie
worthely
driuen
.
Lett
vs
see
the
rest
of
your
answere
if
it
be
anie
better
.
PILK
.
The
testimonie
cited
out
of
Basill
,
is
wrongfullie
fathered
on
that
worthy-Bishoppe
,
and
contradicteth
that
which
he
writeth
in
other
places
,
and
are
acknowledged
on
both
sides
to
be
his
,
and
namelie
his
sermon
de
fide
,
where
he
saith
,
that
it
is
a
manifest
desection
from
faith
,
to
bringe
in
anie
thinge
that
is
not
written
.
Besides
in
this
verie
chapter
mentioned
by
you
,
he
speakes
of
Meletus
,
as
a
rare
man
that
liued
an
dyed
before
his
tyme
,
as
appeareth
by
diuers
of
his
Epistles
.
And
if
we
creditt
Baronius
he
dyed
after
Basill
.
For
Basill
dyed
.
378.
and
Meletus
381.
CHAMP
.
Here
indeede
you
goe
roundlie
to
worke
,
and
like
yourselfe
,
for
not
knowinge
howe
to
answere
the
authoritie
,
you
denie
the
author
;
for
two
weighty
reasons
I
wisse
.
The
first
is
a
pretence
of
a
contradiction
,
which
is
as
much
a
contradiction
,
as
to
affirme
Mr.
Pilkinton
to
be
a
minister
,
and
a
doctor
.
For
he
affirminge
it
to
be
Apostolike
,
to
continue
firmelie
in
vnwritten
traditions
:
saith
it
is
infidelitie
to
adde
any
thinge
to
the
scriptures
that
is
contrarie
vnto
them
.
The
second
is
a
weake
coniecture
,
that
he
liued
after
one
Meletus
,
who
notwithstandinge
is
sayde
to
die
after
him
.
PILK
.
Chrisostome
is
the
onlie
man
that
seemeth
to
fauour
your
assertion
,
but
trulie
vnderstood
he
helpeth
it
nothinge
.
For
he
speaketh
not
of
traditions
that
are
not
written
at
all
,
but
of
such
as
are
not
written
in
so
manie
wordes
.
And
it
is
vsuall
with
the
fathers
,
to
call
them
vnwritten
traditions
,
which
are
not
verbatim
sett
downe
in
the
scriptures
,
and
yett
haue
a
true
ground
in
them
,
as
formerlie
I
shewed
out
of
S.
Aug.
who
saith
that
neither
baptisinge
of
infants
,
nor
baptisinge
by
heretikes
,
are
written
in
the
scripture
,
and
yett
prooueth
both
out
of
them
.
This
is
the
answere
of
that
worthy
diuine
D.
Fulke
.
CHAMP
.
Both
you
and
your
worthy
diuine
D.
Fulke
,
corrupt
S.
Chrisost:
who
saith
it
is
manifest
by
the
testimonie
of
the
Apostle
,
that
they
deliuered
not
all
by
Epistles
,
but
manie
thinges
without
letters
,
marke
these
wordes
without
letters
,
and
see
whether
they
will
stand
with
your
glosse
.
You
here
confesse
against
your selfe
,
that
S
:
Aug:
saith
,
neither
baptisme
of
infants
,
nor
by
heretikes
is
written
;
and
therefore
consequentlie
beleeued
by
tradition
.
But
you
say
he
neuerthelesse
prooueth
both
by
scriptures
.
He
sheweth
indeede
by
scriptures
,
that
they
are
not
contrarie
to
scriptures
;
but
that
they
are
either
commaunded
or
warranted
by
scriptures
he
shewed
not
;
but
recurreth
to
tradition
and
the
authoritie
of
the
churche
.
So
that
the
confirmation
of
your
glosse
vppon
S.
Chrisostome
out
of
S.
Aug:
is
as
voluntarie
as
the
glosse
it selfe
.
PILK
.
This
is
the
answere
of
that
worthie
diūine
Dr.
Fulke
to
the
obiection
of
the
Rhemists
cited
not
by
him
,
but
by
them
out
of
S.
Chrisostome
;
which
I
wounder
howe
you
impute
to
him
,
except
you
would
haue
your
reader
to
conceiue
that
he
fauoreth
your
opinion
,
which
he
directlie
impugneth
in
that
place
.
CHAMP
.
I
knowe
that
amongst
other
peruersities
of
that
affected
wrangler
Fulke
,
this
is
one
,
which
for
his
name
,
hath
not
the
more
,
but
much
lesse
probabilitie
,
because
he
euerie
where
impugneth
the
manifest
truth
.
Nor
did
I
impute
it
to
him
for
the
end
you
say
,
for
I
desire
not
his
fauour
in
the
behalfe
of
the
catholike
truth
,
beinge
a
peruerse
enemie
thereof
;
but
for
this
reason
,
that
the
protestant
reader
should
not
suspect
the
place
to
be
cited
by
me
more
fauorablie
then
it
was
in
it selfe
.
Manuall
Proofe
2.
O
Timothie
keepe
the
depositum
,
that
is
that
which
is
committed
to
thy
trust
,
not
certes
by
writinge
.
For
litle
or
nothinge
written
of
the
newe
testament
was
knowne
to
Timothy
then
.
See
a
large
discourse
hereuppon
in
Vincentius
Lirinensis
.
PILK
.
This
is
nothinge
to
the
purpose
.
For
whether
PILK
.
The
depositum
which
S.
Paule
speaketh
of
,
is
the
whole
christian
doctrine
deliuered
by
the
Apostles
to
theire
disciples
to
keepe
,
and
to
deliuer
to
others
as
is
manifest
,
by
the
wordes
followinge
in
the
same
text
.
O
Timothie
(
saith
he
)
keepe
the
depositum
,
auoydinge
the
prophane
nouelties
of
voyces
and
oppositions
of
falslie
called
knowledge
.
Verie
litle
of
which
doctrine
beinge
then
written
,
it
must
necessarilie
be
vnderstoode
of
tradition
.
And
this
is
Vincentius
Lirinensis
doctrine
;
which
you
cannott
denie
,
though
you
would
obscure
it
a
litle
in
wordes
,
sayinge
the
depositum
is
the
catholike
faith
;
where
if
you
meane
,
the
thinges
belieued
▪
you
say
the
same
that
I
say
,
if
you
meane
the
act
or
habitt
of
faith
,
you
speake
against
common
sence
.
For
that
is
not
the
depositum
comitted
to
Timothie
,
by
S.
Paule
,
but
the
vertue
of
faith
,
geuen
him
by
God
,
neither
is
it
formallie
opposed
to
the
prophane
nouelties
to
be
auoyded
by
him
;
but
the
vertue
or
act
whereby
we
assent
vnto
the
articles
of
faith
and
verities
proposed
vnto
vs
.
Manuall
Proofe
3.
But
if
anie
man
seeme
to
be
contentious
,
we
haue
no
such
custome
nor
the
churche
of
God
.
Where
S.
Paule
alleageth
the
custome
of
the
churche
,
as
a
sufficient
disproofe
of
any
practise
:
why
not
therefore
for
the
proofe
of
anie
.
PILK
.
Our
question
is
of
doctrines
of
faith
,
to
be
beleeued
and
receiued
of
all
,
not
of
rites
and
ceremonies
concerninge
externall
order
of
the
churche
,
whereof
the
Apostle
treateth
in
that
place
.
This
therefore
is
nothinge
to
the
purpose
,
nor
touchinge
our
question
att
all
:
and
yett
S.
Paule
alleageth
not
onlie
custome
,
but
geueth
a
reason
of
it
in
the
wordes
goinge
before
;
which
you
seldome
doe
satisfy
your
proselites
,
but
persuade
them
to
beleeue
and
hange
faith
vppon
your
credit
,
as
if
it
were
impossible
you
shoulde
be
deceiued
.
CHAMP
.
Our
question
is
as
well
of
manners
or
thinges
to
be
obserued
,
as
of
faith
,
and
so
is
the
former
Catholike
position
of
the
Manuall
conceiued
,
and
sett
downe
,
neither
is
the
authoritie
of
traditions
either
more
fallible
,
or
lesse
necessarie
in
the
one
then
in
the
other
.
Or
if
you
thinke
the
contrarie
,
geue
vs
some
sufficient
reason
or
proofe
thereof
,
besides
your
owne
bare
assertion
.
Which
if
you
cannot
seeinge
you
are
constrained
by
the
euidence
of
scripture
,
to
admitte
the
authoritie
of
tradition
in
the
one
,
you
cannott
without
wilfull
obstinacie
reiect
it
in
the
other
.
And
thoughe
S.
Paule
geueth
some
reasons
of
his
doctrine
in
that
place
,
yett
he
recurreth
to
the
custome
of
the
churche
,
as
to
the
most
effectuall
and
forcible
argument
against
those
that
are
obstinat
and
contentious
as
you
are
.
Manuall
Proofe
4.
The
things
thou
hast
heard
of
me
by
manie
Nowe
hauinge
prooued
by
scripture
it selfe
&
euident
instances
,
that
manie
thinges
are
to
be
beleeued
,
that
are
not
directlie
contayned
in
scripture
,
it
appeareth
a
senceles
thinge
to
demande
proofe
of
euery
thinge
we
beleeue
,
out
of
scriptures
.
PILK
.
Whereas
Paule
chargeth
Timothie
to
commend
those
thinges
to
faithfull
witnesses
,
which
he
had
learned
of
him
,
where
there
is
no
mention
of
writinge
but
teachinge
by
worde
,
I
woulde
gladlie
demande
of
this
Papiste
,
if
he
woulde
with
patience
endure
anie
of
vs
thus
wildlie
reasoninge
.
These
thinges
were
taught
and
hearde
,
and
commended
to
faithfull
witnesses
,
therefore
not
written
.
The
Bereans
hearde
S.
Paule
teach
,
but
the
same
things
they
founde
in
the
scriptures
.
Thus
Aquinas
interpreteth
this
place
,
these
thinges
which
thou
hast
hearde
of
me
and
of
Christe
,
I
say
not
of
one
onlie
,
but
confirmed
by
manie
witnesses
vid.
the
Lawe
and
the
Prophetts
.
So
thinges
were
not
onlie
taught
by
worde
,
but
confirmed
by
the
doctrine
of
the
oulde
testament
.
CHAMP
.
This
reasoninge
is
not
wilde
but
firme
and
good
,
especiallie
accordinge
to
your
groundes
,
who
teach
that
nothinge
is
to
be
beleeued
that
is
not
written
.
For
seeinge
it
is
no
where
written
that
these
thinges
which
S.
Paule
taught
and
comended
to
Timothie
to
teach
to
others
were
committed
to
writinge
,
you
cannot
beleeue
that
they
were
written
,
but
by
contradictinge
your
owne
rule
,
non
credimu●
quia
non
legimus
.
Agayne
S.
Paule
exhortinge
Timothie
to
teach
others
,
and
not
to
write
vnto
them
these
thinges
which
he
had
hearde
of
him
,
not
read
out
of
his
writinges
,
doth
manifestly
shewe
,
that
not
onlie
thinges
writter●
,
but
also
thinges
spoken
(
yea
these
principallie
)
are
to
be
beleeued
.
And
therefore
this
arguinge
is
not
wilde
,
but
that
your
witts
were
one
wooll-gatheringe
,
when
you
wrote
this
and
sawe
not
the
force
of
the
argument
,
vnles
peraduenture
you
woulde
be
politike
in
dissembling
the
force
thereof
,
because
you
coulde
not
auoyde
it
.
And
though
S.
Paule
confirmed
much
of
his
doctrine
by
the
authoritie
of
the
oulde
testament
,
yett
that
he
taught
nothinge
more
,
then
that
which
was
written
before
,
I
suppose
you
will
not
dare
to
say
.
And
if
you
thinke
the
commentarie
of
S.
Thomas
here
alleaged
by
you
to
be
true
,
why
doe
you
condemne
the
beleeuinge
of
thinges
not
written
,
seeinge
you
finde
not
his
comment
written
in
all
the
whole
Bible
.
Or
if
you
condemne
it
not
in
him
▪
why
should
you
condemne
it
in
vs
,
or
abhorr
it
in
your selfe
?
And
thus
you
see
you
are
forced
which
way
soeuer
you
turne
your selfe
,
to
admitte
of
vnwritten
doctrine
for
good
and
canonicall
,
when
you
haue
spited
all
your
canne
against
it
.
PILK
.
Nowe
that
you
may
knowe
that
protestants
haue
bothe
a
shielde
to
defend
themselues
,
and
a
sworde
to
wound
theire
aduersaries
,
heare
theire
positions
with
the
confirmation
thereof
.
CHAMP
.
If
your
sworde
be
no
sharper
,
then
your
shielde
is
stronge
,
it
will
no
more
wounde
your
aduersaries
,
than
the
other
hath
kept
your
doctrine
whole
.
Which
hath
been
so
often
pierced
,
as
hadd
your
shoulders
receiued
so
manie
but
drie
blowes
,
as
your
doctrine
hath
donne
ouerthrowes
,
they
would
geue
you
but
small
rest
till
you
had
taken
some
soueraigne
Elixir
to
cure
them
.
And
why
doe
you
not
put
downe
the
protestants
positions
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
?
If
you
had
disliked
them
,
you
should
haue
tould
vs
why
;
if
you
did
not
dislike
them
,
they
had
been
more
easily
sett
downe
in
theire
owne
wordes
,
then
in
others
.
Well
I
will
here
sett
them
downe
that
the
reader
may
see
them
in
theire
owne
shape
.
Manuall
protestant
position
1.
The
holy
Apostles
deliuered
not
by
worde
of
mouth
moe
thinges
to
be
beleeued
and
obserued
by
the
churche
,
then
they
either
found
written
or
wrote
themselues
.
And
therefore
are
there
no
traditions
to
be
holden
or
beleeued
.
Position
2.
The
catholike
churche
ought
not
to
beleeue
those
thinges
which
the
Apostles
deliuered
onlie
by
worde
of
mouth
without
writinge
in
the
same
degree
of
faith
,
with
those
which
are
written
.
Nowe
lett
vs
heare
yours
.
PILK
.
ANTITHESIS
.
1.
The
Apostles
deliuered
not
by
worde
of
mouth
,
more
thinges
to
be
beleeued
,
or
obserued
by
the
churche
as
necessarie
to
saluation
,
then
they
wrote
themselues
or
found
writen
.
Proofe
.
1.
Acts.
26.
22.
hauinge
therefore
obtayned
helpe
of
God
,
I
continue
vnto
this
day
,
witnessinge
both
to
greate
and
small
,
sayinge
none
other
thinges
,
then
those
which
the
prophetts
and
Moses
did
say
shoulde
come
.
Argument
.
They
that
preached
no
other
thinges
then
that
which
is
in
Moises
and
the
prophets
,
deliuered
no
more
by
worde
of
mouth
then
is
written
(
then
was
written
you
shoulde
haue
sayd
)
but
the
Apostles
did
so
.
Ergo.
CHAMP
.
Your
argument
if
it
did
prooue
anie
thinge
would
conclude
that
the
Apostles
taught
nothinge
more
then
which
was
written
in
Moises
and
the
prophets
;
which
if
it
be
true
,
what
necessitie
or
profitt●
is
there
of
the
gospells
and
the
rest
of
the
bookes
of
the
newe
testament
?
Whilst
therefore
you
impugne
traditions
,
you
ouerthrowe
the
whole
newe
testament
.
S.
Paule
therefore
taught
nothinge
contrarie
to
the
lawe
and
prophetts
,
yea
those
thinges
which
he
preached
to
the
Iewes
of
our
Sauiour
Christe
,
he
prooued
to
be
conformable
to
theire
owne
prophetts
.
Which
kinde
of
proofe
to
the
gentills
would
haue
been
of
small
moment
,
and
therefore
you
see
your
argument
not
to
be
effectuall
nor
to
conclude
vniuersallie
.
Againe
why
doe
you
vse
the
like
manner
of
reasoninge
which
you
reprehended
in
me
a
litle
before
,
concludinge
that
because
S.
Paule
at
one
tyme
,
or
in
one
audience
preached
nothinge
without
the
lawe
,
and
prophetts
;
that
therefore
neither
he
or
anie
other
tymes
nor
anie
other
of
the
Apostles
▪
did
preach
anie
thinge
more
then
that
which
is
contayned
in
them
?
Which
kinde
of
argument
thoughe
I
may
iustly
maintaine
against
you
,
as
conformeable
to
your
owne
principles
,
denyinge
traditions
and
beleeuinge
nothinge
but
that
which
is
written
,
yett
are
you
ridiculous
to
vse
it
against
me
,
who
professe
to
beleeue
manie
thinges
not
written
.
And
much
more
ridiculous
you
are
to
vse
it
for
the
impugninge
of
traditions
,
assuminge
that
for
the
grounde
of
your
proofe
,
which
you
knowe
is
denyed
you
,
and
which
oughte
firste
to
be
prooued
.
Further
where
doe
you
finde
in
all
the
prophetts
or
Moises
,
the
vision
whereof
S.
Paule
maketh
a
recitall
in
the
chapter
cited
by
you
?
Certainlie
no
where
.
And
yett
this
he
preached
with
much
vehemencie
in
an
assemblie
of
greate
personages
,
and
himselfe
thought
it
worthy
of
beleefe
.
Somethinge
therefore
you
see
he
preached
more
then
that
which
was
contayned
in
Moises
and
the
prophetts
.
And
this
I
geue
you
for
an
example
onlie
,
and
not
as
the
sole
thinge
wherein
instance
may
be
made
.
PILK
.
Proofe
2.
2.
Tim.
3.
16.
From
a
childe
thou
haste
knowne
the
holy
scriptures
,
which
are
able
to
make
thee
wise
vnto
saluation
,
thoroughe
faith
which
is
in
Christe
Iesus
.
Argument
.
The
Apostles
deliuered
no
more
by
worde
nor
writtinge
but
that
which
maketh
a
man
wise
to
saluation
.
But
all
this
written
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
dare
stand
to
this
argument
,
I
will
easilie
prooue
you
to
be
more
a
Iewe
then
a
christian
by
this
Sillogisme
.
He
that
holdeth
al
that
which
is
able
to
make
a
man
wise
to
saluation
(
so
that
no
other
thinge
is
necessarie
)
to
be
written
in
the
oulde
testament
is
more
a
Iewe
then
a
Christian
.
But
Mr.
Pilkinton
holdeth
this
.
Ergo.
The
minor
which
onlie
needeth
proofe
I
shewe
thus
.
Maister
Pilkinton
holdeth
the
scripture
which
S.
Timothie
knewe
from
a
childe
to
be
able
to
make
a
man
wise
to
saluation
.
But
this
was
onlie
the
olde
testament
.
Ergo.
By
that
tyme
that
you
shall
haue
quitte
your selfe
of
this
argument
,
you
will
I
suppose
finde
your
owne
not
to
deserue
the
name
of
an
argument
,
nor
yett
of
a
wittie
Sophisme
.
For
to
beleeue
one
only
God
,
is
able
to
make
a
man
wise
to
saluation
,
because
it
maketh
him
wise
in
some
thinge
necessarie
to
saluation
,
as
no
man
of
common
sence
will
denie
.
And
yett
that
alone
is
not
sufficient
to
saluation
,
as
I
thinke
you
yourselfe
will
confesse
.
PILK
.
Proofe
3.
Io.
20.
31.
These
are
written
that
yee
might
beleeue
that
Iesus
is
the
sonne
of
God
,
and
beleeuinge
you
might
haue
life
thoroughe
his
name
.
Argument
.
They
that
writte
all
thinges
,
whereby
we
might
come
to
eternall
life
,
wrote
all
thinges
necessarie
vnto
saluation
,
and
more
they
preached
not
:
But
the
Apostles
did
so
.
CHAMP
.
This
argument
is
all
moste
as
wicked
as
the
precedent
.
For
if
it
conclude
anie
thinge
,
it
prooueth
the
Apostles
to
haue
preached
nothinge
but
S.
Iohns
gospell
.
And
consequentlie
all
the
rest
of
the
newe
testament
,
either
to
be
Apocripha
,
or
at
least
not
to
be
anie
way
necessarie
to
saluation
.
This
man
thou
seest
(
iudicious
reader
)
to
be
as
little
a
friende
to
scripture
as
to
traditions
,
seeing
to
impugne
the
one
,
he
destroyeth
the
other
.
Is
this
your
sworde
Mr.
Minister
wherewith
you
would
pearce
and
wounde
your
aduersary
?
no
wise
man
I
thinke
but
will
say
it
was
made
to
cutt
your
owne
throate
with
,
rather
then
to
drawe
one
droppe
of
blood
of
your
aduersarie
.
But
you
will
bringe
sharper
weapons
out
of
the
fathers
.
You
should
remember
that
the
testimonies
out
of
the
fathers
,
should
be
explications
of
the
scriptures
cited
for
the
same
purpose
,
and
not
theire
single
sayinges
.
But
lett
vs
take
them
as
they
are
.
PILK
.
Proofe
4.
We
know
not
the
disposition
of
our
saluation
,
from
anie
other
then
from
them
,
by
whome
the
ghospell
came
to
vs
,
which
first
they
preached
,
and
after
by
the
will
of
God
deliuered
it
vnto
vs
in
the
holy
scriptures
,
to
be
the
foundation
and
pillar
of
our
faith
.
CHAMP
.
This
authoritie
hath
been
once
or
twice
satisfied
before
,
and
it
saith
not
;
they
wrote
all
they
preached
;
but
the
same
doctrine
which
they
preached
,
they
writt
,
and
not
a
diuerse
or
contrarie
,
as
some
heretikes
fabulouslie
taught
,
against
whome
S.
Ireneus
there
writeth
;
and
this
is
the
true
meaninge
of
that
place
,
as
anie
one
that
looketh
thereon
will
easilie
see
.
PILK
.
Proofe
5.
These
thinges
are
chosen
to
be
written
,
which
are
sufficient
for
the
saluation
of
the
beleeuers
.
CHAMP
.
This
is
true
and
not
against
the
catholike
doctrine
of
traditions
.
For
he
that
beleeueth
that
which
is
written
,
beleeueth
sufficient
for
his
saluation
,
if
he
haue
not
repugnancie
in
his
minde
not
to
beleeue
anie
more
.
PILK
.
Proofe
.
It
is
a
manifest
defection
from
faith
,
and
the
crime
of
pride
,
either
for
to
refuse
anie
thinge
of
those
that
are
written
,
or
to
bringe
in
that
which
is
not
written
,
as
our
Sauiour
Iesus
Christe
saith
,
my
sheepe
heare
my
voyce
.
CHAMP
.
It
is
an
equall
crimen
to
denie
that
which
is
written
,
and
to
bringe
in
anie
thinge
not
written
,
contrarie
to
that
which
is
written
,
as
the
Arrians
did
who
made
Christe
to
be
a
creature
,
different
in
substance
from
his
father
,
contrarie
to
that
which
is
written
in
manie
places
.
And
this
is
S.
Basills
playne
doctrine
,
which
is
nothinge
for
your
purpose
,
nor
against
me
.
PILK
.
ANTITHESIS
2.
The
catholike
churche
ought
not
to
beleeue
these
traditions
which
the
papists
say
the
Apostles
deliuered
by
worde
of
mouth
onlie
,
in
the
same
degree
of
faith
with
these
thinges
that
are
written
.
Proofe
1.
Esay
8.
20.
To
the
lawe
and
the
testaments
,
if
they
speake
not
accordinge
to
this
worde
,
it
is
because
there
is
no
light
in
them
.
Argument
.
That
which
speaketh
not
accordinge
to
the
lawe
and
testimonie
hath
no
truth
,
and
is
not
to
be
credited
as
the
lawe
:
But
papists
traditions
are
so
.
CHAMP
.
The
answere
to
your
argument
shall
be
to
returne
it
vppon
you
in
this
manner
.
That
which
speaketh
accordinge
to
the
lawe
and
testimonie
is
true
,
and
is
to
be
credited
as
the
lawe
it selfe
.
But
such
are
catholike
traditions
.
Ergo.
PILK
.
Proofe
.
Gall.
1.
8.
9.
But
thoughe
we
or
an
Angell
from
heauen
preach
anie
other
gospell
vnto
you
,
then
that
which
we
haue
preached
,
lett
him
be
accursed
:
as
we
sayd
before
,
so
say
I
nowe
againe
,
if
anie
man
preach
anie
other
gospell
vnto
you
then
you
haue
receiued
,
lett
him
be
accursed
.
Argument
.
That
which
is
not
the
same
but
another
,
besides
that
which
Paule
preached
,
is
not
to
be
credited
but
accursed
.
But
popish
traditions
are
so
.
CHAMP
.
I
must
needes
say
that
the
catholike
doctrine
shoulde
be
verie
weake
indeede
▪
if
it
should
be
ouerthrowne
with
such
lame
and
limpinge
arguments
,
that
haue
not
so
much
as
one
good
legge
to
stand
vppon
.
And
what
shall
we
say
then
of
the
protestants
doctrine
,
that
is
supported
by
such
bean-strawe
pillars
?
Your
maior
were
it
true
,
woulde
conclude
all
the
Apostles
writinges
besisides
S.
Paules
to
be
accursed
,
at
leaste
in
all
such
thinge●
as
are
not
found
in
S.
Paule
:
Your
minor
may
as
easilie
be
affirmed
of
S.
Iohns
Gospell
or
anie
other
booke
of
the
bible
.
So
that
your
conclusion
is
like
to
be
verie
protestanticall
.
See
therfore
howe
stronglie
you
haue
prooued
your
protestant
position
,
or
antithesis
,
and
consequentlie
howe
deepelie
you
haue
wounded
your
aduersarie
.
Euer
so
blinde
may
the
enemies
of
gods
churche
be
,
to
impugne
it
in
this
manner
,
so
longe
as
they
doe
impugne
it
.
PILK
.
Proofe
.
2.
Petri.
1.
18.
19.
And
this
voice
which
came
from
heauen
,
we
heard
when
we
were
with
him
in
the
holy
Mount
.
We
haue
also
a
more
sure
worde
of
prophecie
,
whereunto
you
doe
well
that
you
take
heede
as
vnto
a
light
that
shineth
in
a
darke
place
,
vntill
the
day
dawne
,
and
the
day-starre
arise
in
your
harts
.
Argument
.
That
which
is
more
firme
and
sure
,
then
reuelation
from
heauen
,
not
then
written
,
is
more
to
be
credited
then
anie
thinge
nowe
not
written
:
but
the
scriptures
are
such
.
CHAMP
.
Doe
you
thinke
that
the
writinge
of
anie
reuelation
maketh
it
more
firme
?
or
that
it
receiueth
anie
increase
of
authoritie
thereby
?
you
seeme
to
be
of
this
opinion
,
but
it
is
moste
absurde
to
thinke
.
For
the
authoritie
all
reuelations
haue
,
is
from
God
almightie
,
and
not
from
the
writinge
of
them
in
paper
or
parchment
.
And
therefore
the
prophecie
S.
Peter
speaketh
of
(
whether
it
were
written
or
vnwritten
,
for
he
saith
not
it
was
written
,
but
rather
the
contrarie
,
tearminge
it
a
propheticall
speach
or
sermon
)
is
sayde
by
him
to
be
more
firme
then
the
testimonie
receiued
in
the
holy
mount
,
because
that
had
been
auncientlie
promulgated
,
credited
and
receiued
;
whereas
this
had
neuer
yett
bin
preached
or
proposed
to
be
beleeued
;
and
therefore
no
maruell
though
that
were
esteemed
more
firme
then
this
hitherto
hadd
been
;
not
because
this
had
not
been
written
,
but
because
it
had
not
been
preached
or
published
att
all
till
that
tyme
.
PILK
Proofe
.
Iohn
.
5.
36.
37.
38.
39.
But
I
haue
greater
witnes
then
that
of
Iohn
,
for
the
workes
which
the
Father
hath
geuen
me
to
finishe
,
the
same
workes
that
I
doe
,
beare
witnes
of
me
,
that
the
Father
hath
sent
me
.
And
the
Father
himselfe
which
hath
sent
me
,
hath
borne
witnes
of
me
;
Yee
haue
neither
heard
his
voice
at
anie
tyme
,
nor
seene
his
shape
.
And
yee
haue
not
his
worde
abiding●
in
you
,
for
whome
he
sent
,
him
yee
beleeue
not
.
Searche
the
scriptures
for
in
them
yee
haue
eternall
life
,
and
they
are
they
,
which
testifie
of
me
.
Argument
.
That
which
is
greater
then
the
testimonie
of
Iohn
is
more
to
be
credited
,
then
an●e
thinge
not
written
:
But
the
scriptures
are
greater
then
the
testimonie
of
Iohn
.
CHAMP
.
The
farther
you
goe
the
more
foolishe
and
impertinent
still
you
are
;
vppon
what
ground
doe
you
assume
in
your
minor
?
But
the
holy
scriptures
are
greater
then
●he
testimonie
of
Iohn
?
not
out
of
the
texts
of
of
scripture
cited
by
you
:
for
they
say
no
such
thing
.
They
say
that
,
indeede
,
of
the
workes
of
Christe
,
and
of
his
fathers
testimonie
,
which
notwithstandinge
were
noe
where
then
written
;
but
of
the
scripture
they
say
no
such
thinge
.
And
therefore
your
argument
is
as
fitlie
founded
vppon
these
text
▪
of
scripture
as
those
are
which
Pruritanu
▪
sett
downe
in
the
name
of
your
felowes
,
the
author
of
which
pamplett
had
he
seene
your
booke
,
might
haue
increased
his
not
a
little
out
of
it
.
As
with
this
for
example
.
I
have
greater
witnes
then
Iohn
▪
●r●●
ther
are
noe
traditions
;
or
traditions
are
not
to
be
beleeued
equallie
with
scriptures
.
For
amongst
all
his
I
knowe
not
whether
there
be
one
more
impertinent
then
this
.
But
you
will
thinke
to
make
some
force
out
of
the
laste
sentence
:
search
the
scriptures
&c.
but
with
as
much
probabilitie
as
out
of
the
other
.
For
were
it
as
you
read
:
For
in
them
yee
haue
eternall
life
,
and
not
:
For
in
them
you
thinke
to
haue
eternall
life
Which
is
the
true
texte
▪
yett
haue
you
thence
no
other
thing
then
that
the
old
testament
,
(
for
of
that
onlie
our
Sauiour
speaketh
)
doth
testifie
of
him
.
Which
how
it
either
prooueth
your
Antithesis
,
or
improoueth
my
position
,
iudge
you
by
this
consequence
.
The
old
testament
in
which
the
Iewes
thought
to
haue
eternall
life
beareth
witnes
of
our
Sauiour
Christ
;
Ergo
traditions
are
not
of
equall
authoritie
with
scripture
.
Doe
doctors
in
Oxeforde
vse
to
make
such
consequences
?
if
they
doe
I
dare
say
it
is
the
paine
of
sinne
and
heresie
,
for
the
which
they
are
depriued
of
the
verie
light
of
naturall
reason
and
discourse
.
PILK
.
Proofe
.
Whatsoeuer
is
confirmed
by
the
authoritie
of
Aug.
epist.
112
▪
diuine
scriptures
which
in
the
churche
are
called
canonical
,
is
without
al
doubte
to
be
beleeued
.
But
you
may
beleeue
or
not
beleeue
other
witnesses
or
testimonies
(
which
men
persuade
you
to
beleeue
)
as
much
as
they
deserue
or
not
deserue
to
bee
credited
by
the
force
yee
finde
in
them
.
CHAMP
.
If
you
dare
stand
to
this
authoritie
,
I
will
euidentlie
prooue
against
you
,
that
you
are
to
beleeue
purgatory
,
prayers
for
the
dead
,
the
gua●de
of
Angells
,
and
diuers
other
thinges
which
you
condemne
in
the
catholikes
.
For
these
thinges
are
euidentlie
confirmed
in
those
scriptures
which
the
churche
in
S.
August
▪
tyme
did
call
canonicall
as
he
witnesseth
.
Further
the
bookes
receiued
by
your selfe
for
canonicall
,
doe
confirme
the
authoritie
of
traditions
,
as
is
playne
out
of
the
second
Epistle
to
the
Thessalo
:
cited
before
.
Againe
it
is
not
onlie
men
,
but
gods
churche
,
and
consequentlie
God
himselfe
by
her
▪
that
perswadeth
vs
to
beleeue
traditions
,
and
therefore
this
your
argument
is
as
foolishe
as
the
rest
.
PILK
.
Proofe
.
Abraham
when
he
was
desired
to
send
Lazarus
,
answered
,
they
haue
Moises
and
the
prophetts
,
if
they
will
not
beleeue
them
,
nether
will
they
heare
the
dead
raysed
vppe
.
Christe
bringeth
him
speakinge
in
a
parable
to
shewe
that
he
woulde
haue
more
faith
geuen
to
the
scriptures
,
then
if
the
dead
should
reuiue
:
Moreouer
Paul
(
and
when
I
mention
Paule
I
mean
Christe
for
he
knewe
his
minde
)
preferreth
scriptures
before
Angells
that
descend
,
and
that
in
great
congruitie
;
For
an
Angell
thoughe
verie
greate
,
yett
are
they
seruants
and
ministers
,
but
all
scriptures
came
vnto
vs
not
from
seruants
,
but
from
God
,
Lord
of
all
.
Chrisostome
in
cap.
1.
ad
Gallatas
.
CHAMP
.
There
is
no
end
of
your
impertinencies
and
absurd
parologismes
.
Christ
woulde
haue
more
faith
geuen
to
the
scriptures
then
if
the
dead
shoulde
reuiue
say
you
.
Ergo
what
?
Ergo
Mr.
Pilkinton
knoweth
not
what
he
saith
.
Certainlie
this
is
the
best
consequence
anie
man
can
make
of
this
testimonie
,
as
it
is
cited
by
him
.
Againe
S.
Paule
yea
our
Sauiour
Christ
preferre
scriptures
before
angells
,
that
shoulde
teach
anie
thinge
,
against
that
which
the
Apostles
had
taught
,
say
you
,
because
the
angells
are
ministers
,
but
the
scriptures
came
to
vs
from
God
the
Lord
of
all
.
Ergo
traditions
are
not
to
be
beleeued
equallie
with
scriptures
.
A
learned
consequence
I
wisse
,
and
like
the
rest
of
your
doctrine
,
hauinge
as
much
truth
and
connexion
in
it
as
hath
this
.
God
is
in
heauen
.
Ergo
Mr.
Pilkinton
is
a
Roman
Catholike
.
Nowe
looke
backe
I
pray
thee
iudicious
reader
vpon
the
catholicke
positions
sett
downe
in
the
Manuall
,
with
the
proofes
thereof
out
of
the
scriptures
,
and
compare
them
with
Mr.
Pilkintons
Antitheses
,
and
the
proofes
thereof
,
and
passe
thy
impartiall
iudgment
on
them
,
whether
of
them
haue
better
grounde
in
holy
scripture
.
Thus
farr
I
haue
gone
with
your
Parallel
Mr.
Pilkinton
examininge
the
weight
and
truth
thereof
and
in
a
fewe
leaues
haue
founde
so
manie
absurdities
falsities
and
impertinencies
,
that
your
whole
booke
seemeth
to
me
to
be
no
other
thing
then
a
deformed
lumpe
or
masse
of
mouldinge
past
,
which
maketh
not
anie
resistance
,
but
is
without
all
difficultie
,
cutt
in
peeces
,
pearced
,
or
thrust
thoroughe
,
euen
with
euerie
wooden
knife
,
or
other
instrument
.
For
if
I
had
no
more
difficultie
to
coppie
and
transcribe
▪
your
wordes
,
out
of
your
booke
into
my
paper
that
they
might
goe
to
the
printe
with
my
reply
,
then
I
had
to
confute
them
,
you
shoulde
not
haue
been
so
manie
dayes
without
your
answere
.
I
goe
no
further
with
you
in
discussinge
your
doctrine
,
because
I
will
not
bestowe
good
howers
in
such
vnnecessarie
and
vnprofitable
labour
,
learninge
of
your selfe
in
the
laste
page
of
your
booke
,
that
as
to
knowe
the
sea
water
to
be
salte
it
is
not
necessarie
to
drinke
vppe
the
whole
sea
,
or
to
knowe
an
earthen
statua
guilded
ouer
,
not
to
be
gold
,
it
is
sufficient
to
scrape
of
one
peece
onlie
of
the
guildinge
.
So
for
anie
man
to
discouer
the
absurditie
,
and
impertinencie
of
your
booke
,
it
is
not
necessarie
he
shoulde
goe
thoroughe
it
whollie
,
but
it
abundantlie
sufficeth
to
haue
examined
one
parte
thereof
onlie
.
I
would
not
lett
it
goe
whollie
without
refutation
,
least
you
shoulde
haue
interpreted
my
silence
to
haue
proceeded
from
the
difficultie
there
had
been
to
confute
your
doctrine
;
and
least
your
lesse
skilfull
reader
might
thinke
you
had
sayd
something
to
the
purpose
,
in
answere
of
the
catholike
doctrine
or
proofe
of
your
owne
.
I
woulde
not
goe
anie
further
in
mine
answer
,
for
the
reason
alreadie
sett
downe
out
of
your
owne
wordes
.
If
you
please
to
lay
downe
your
wilfulnes
to
defend
your
errours
,
and
with
some
in
differencie
to
consider
the
sinceritie
of
the
catholike
truthe
,
I
make
no
doubte
but
by
this
litle
which
hath
been
sayde
,
in
reply
to
your
answere
,
you
will
see
the
vanitie
of
your
doctrine
deliuered
in
this
booke
of
yours
.
But
if
you
persiste
in
your
obstinate
will
,
not
to
geue
eare
to
the
truth
,
you
may
well
be
vanquished
and
ouercome
(
as
S.
Hierome
saith
)
but
you
will
neuer
be
perswaded
.
FINIS
.
The
Errata
.
Pag.
3.
line
1.
to
Mr.
Abbat
,
for
,
three
whole
yeares
I
appealed
,
reade
,
three
whole
yeares
since
I
appealed
.
pag.
5.
l.
11.
perferring
,
preferring
.
p.
15.
l.
6.
This
in
,
This
is
.
pag.
20.
l.
30.
is
hee
,
hee
is
.
pag.
41.
l.
29.
depise
,
despise
.
If
there
be
any
other
,
they
are
so
smale
that
none
in
reading
,
but
can
correct
them
.
APPROBATIONES
.
LIbrum
D.
Antonij
Champnei
Doctoris
Sorbonici
inscriptum
,
Maister
Pilkintons
Parallela
Disparalleld
legi
,
in
quo
nihil
inuenio
quod
contra
sanctam
fidem
Catholicam
Romanam
,
aut
bonos
mores
sit
.
Quare
cùm
hominis
haeretici
ineptias
apertè
detegat
,
&
auctoritatem
Ecclesiae
Catholicae
Romanae
in
definiendis
fidei
Controuersijs
propugnet
,
vtiliter
praelo
committi
posse
censeo
.
Audomari
23.
Decemb.
1619.
Ioannes
Floidus
Societatis
Iesu
S.
T.
Professor
.
VIso
hoc
testimonio
Reuerendi
Patris
Ioannis
Floidi
societatis
Iesu
S.
Theolog.
Professoris
qui
Anglicum
hunc
libellum
visitauit
prout
superius
habetur
,
Reuerendiss
.
Dom.
Episcopus
Audomarens
.
permittit
vt
typis
mandetur
.
Datum
Audomari
,
Anno
millesimo
sexcentesimo
decimo
nono
,
mensis
Decembris
die
vigesima
octaua
.
D●
mandato
Reuerendiss
.
Dom.
Praefati
,
A.
Deleau
Secret
,
Faultes
escaped
in
the
text
.
IN
the
first
line
of
the
Epistle
reade
,
fower
yeares
since
.
p.
11.
l.
3.
r.
positions
.
p.
13.
l.
22.
r.
the.
p.
24.
l.
19.
r.
your
.
p.
30.
l.
4.
after
session
add
.
6.
p.
35.
l.
13.
r.
Nilo
.
p
37.
l.
7.
r.
thinges
.
p.
47.
l.
13.
after
councells
add
which
.
p.
55.
l.
22.
r.
redundant
.
p.
66.
l.
5.
after
geue
add
an
.
p.
74.
l.
19.
after
that
,
add
which
he
affirmeth
himselfe
.
p.
90.
l.
31.
after
veluet
,
add
by
another
.
p.
105.
l.
21.
r.
Bethanen
.
p.
124.
l.
33.
r.
is
.
p.
127.
l.
20.
r.
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
〈◊〉
.
p.
126.
l.
8.
r.
an
vnskilfull
.
p.
127.
l.
19.
r.
promeretur
.
p.
132.
l.
7.
after
vnles
,
add
therefore
.
p.
134.
l.
11.
r.
For
he
saith
not
my
sheepe
reade
.
p.
146.
l.
16.
r.
dwell
.
p.
147.
l.
30.
r.
l
and
the
father
are
one
,
doth
not
fully
prooue
the.
p.
156.
l.
2.
For
like
as
reade
litle
.
p.
174
l.
1.
r.
your
.
p.
185.
l.
34.
r.
ordained
.
p.
205.
l.
14.
r.
do
to
.
Ibid.
l.
15.
r.
hange
theire
.
p.
209.
l.
last
.
r.
For
,
he
or
.
r.
he
at
.
p.
210.
l.
31.
r.
This
is
.
p.
215.
l.
16.
r.
So
to
.
In
the
margent
.
Page
80.
against
these
wordes
looke
backe
,
wanteth
this
marke
†
pag.
112.
in
the
middest
of
the
page
wanteth
,
de
vtilitate
●redendi
cap.
6.
pag.
128.
against
the
line
14.
wanteth
libro
2.
de
verbo
Dei
.
cap.
14.
pag.
136.
against
the
line
2.
wanteth
epistola
prima
ad
Simpronianum
.
Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
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