The place of Chrysostome against the vse of water in the cup of the Lords table .

CVius rei gratia non aquam sed vinum post resurrectionem bibit ? Chrysost. in Math. hom. 83. Perniciosam quandam haeresin radicitùs euellere voluit , eorum qui aqua in mysterijs vtuntur . Ita vt ostenderet quia & quando hoc mysterium tradidit , vnum tradidit : etiam post resurrectionem in nuda mysterij mensae vino vsus est . Exgenimine , ait , vitis , quae certè vinum , non aquam producit .

In English thus :

But why did Christ after his resurrection drinke not Water but Wine ? He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie ; of them which vse water in the Sacrament . So that to shew that when he deliuered this Sacrament , he deliuered wine , euen after his resurrection also he vsed wine at the bare table of the Sacrament . Of the fruite of the vine , saith he , which surely bringeth foorth wine and not water .

The place of Gelasius against Transubstantiation .

CErtè sacramenta quae sumimus corporis & sanguinis Christi , diuina Gelasius cont. Eutych . & Nestor . res est ; propter quod & per eadem diuinae efficimur consortes naturae , & tamen esse non desiuit substantia vel natura panis & vini . Et certe imago & similitudo corporis & sanguinis Christi in actione mysteriorum celebrantur . Satis ergò nobis euidenter ostenditur , hoc nohis in ipso Christo domino sentiendum , quod in eius imagine profitemur , celebramus et sumimus , vt sicut in haenc , scilicet in diuinam transeunt , sancto spiritu perficiente , substantiam , permanent tamen in suae proprietate naturae : sic illud ipsum mysterium principale , cuius nobis efficientiam virtutemque veracitèr repraesentant , ex quibus constat propriè permanentibus , vnum Christum , quia integrum verumque permaenere demon strant .

In English thus :

Verily the Sacraments which we receiue of the bodie and blood of Christ are a diuine thing , by reason whereof , we also by them are made partakers of the diuine nature , and yet there ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine . And surely an image or esemblance of the bodie and blood of Christ , is celebrated in the action of the mysteries . It is therefore euidently inough shewed vnto vs ; that we must thinke the same in our Lord Iesus Christ , which we professe , celebrate and receiue in his image , that as these ( namely the bread and wine ) do by the working of the holie Ghost passe ouer into a diuine substance , and yet continue in the proprietie of their owne nature ; so they shew that that principall mysterie , the efficiencie & vertue wherof these do represent vnto vs , doth abide one Christ ; because whole and true ; those natures properly remaining , whereof he doth consist .

M. Spence hauing had my bookes to peruse these places , sent me in writing this answere to them .

SIr , I right hartily thanke you for the willing minde you hau● towards me . Truly I should be verie vnkinde if I knew m● selfe vnaffectioned to so much good will . I am in prison and pouertie , otherwise I should be some way answerable to your friendlinesse . In the meane season good will shall be readie for good will . Touching the words of S. Chrysostome : He would plucke vp by the rootes a certaine pernicious heresie of them which vse water in the Sacrament , &c. Read the 32. Canon of the sixth Councell holden at Constantinople , and there you shall find vpon what occasion this golden mouth did vtter these words , and not only that , but also mention of S. Iames , and S. Basils masse or sacrifice left to the church in writing . The words of the Canon begin thus : Because we know that in the country of the Armenians , wine onely is offered at the holie table , &c. The heresie therefore against which he wrote was of the a a Vntruth . For neither doth Chrysostome intimate any thing against the Armenians or such as vse wine only : neither was it heresie in them that did so . Armenians , and the Aquarians : the first whereof would vse onely wine , the other onely water in the holie mysteries . Against which vse being so directly against both the scriptures and custome of the primitiue church , he wrote the same which he saith of pernicious heresie , as before , I cannot doubt of your hauing the Councels or some of them .

Your other booke conteining the words of Gelasius , I wil not yet answere , being printed at Basil , where we suspect many good works to be corrupted & abused . But if it proue so to be , yet the whole faith of Christs church in that point may not be reproued , against so many witnesses of scriptures and fathers b b Neither scripture not Father auoucheth the contrarie . auouching the contrarie . Nay what words should Christ haue vsed if he had meant to make his bodie & blood of the bread and wine as we say he did , other then these : This is my bodie which shall be giuen , &c. And gaine : for this is my blood of the new Testament which shal be shead for many for remission of sinnes . Marke well the speeches and they be most wonderfull as most true . All the world and writings therein c c The Gospell it selfe is sufficient to perswade him that will be perswaded , ●nforming vs of a true and naturall bodie of Christ , and not of a fantasticall bodie in the fashion & quantitie of a wafer cake . cannot iustly and well perswade a Christian to beléeue the contrary in my opinion : S. Mathew , Mark , Luke and Paul all writing , This is my bodie ; whereas writing otherwise of one thing , one saith ; If I in the finger of God cast out diuels , &c. Another , If I in the spirit of God , &c. So that in d d Vntrue , as appeareth by the conference of these places Mat. 5. 29. with Mar. 9. 3. Mar. 5. 39. with Luc. 6. 29. Mat. 20. 23. Mar. 10. 39. Mat. 21. 21. Mar. 11. 23. which are not taken literally , and yet difler not in phrase of speech . any matter where moe then one speak of the same thing , euerie one hath more of the same thing to giue more light then another . But in the matter of the Sacrament no whit so , but in the verie substantiall point e e Vntrue : for they varie as touching the cup , & there is the same reason of the one part of the Sacrament , as of the other . See the reply . Concil. constanti . 6. can . 32 all deliuer the selfe same effectuall words .

Sir , once againe thankes for your good Chrysostome , and so I beséech to recall them that erre into the way of truth and euerlasting saluation .

A reply against the former answere to the places of Chrysostome and Gelasius .

THe willingnesse I haue to doe you good , M. Spence , I wish might take such effect with you , as that God might be glorified by reuealing vnto you the knowledge of his truth . I doubt not but it shall be so , if you séeke it as you ought , and where you ought . Concerning the place of Chrysostome , of vsing water in the Sacrament , I finde it expounded as you answere me , in Concil. Constantinopol 6. ca. 32. of them that vsed water onely and no wine . Albeit the wordes séeme to me plainly to enforce vpon the Reader another vnderstanding neither find I any reason why the Bishops of Armenia being a thousand vnder one Metropolitane , may not be thought as méete iudges of Chrysostomes meaning , as the Bishops of this Councell ; especially séeing it is not certaine either what time or by whom those Canons were made , and appeare to be falsly fathered vpon the sixth generall Councell as Surius in his admonition Surius in admoni● . ad Lector . de can. 6. synodi . concil . to . 2. concerning those Canons giueth to vnderstand . Yea and they are in diuers points reiected by your selues , as is plaine also by Surius both in the same Preface , and by some notes added to some of the Canons . But I contend not of that point , and as I condemne not in that respect the Churches which either haue vsed or doe vse that mixture , only without opinion of superstition and necessitie ; so neither do I find reason why those Churches are to be condemned that rather follow as most assured the simplicitie of the institution of Iesus Christ , where we finde mention of the fruite of the vine , but nothing as touching water . If you say as the Canon saith , that this is to innouate those things which haue bene deliuered by tradition , Cypri . epist. ad Pompeium . I must answer you with Cyprians words ; Whence is this tradition ? Whether descending from the authoritie of the Lord and of the Gospell , or comming from the Commandements and Epistles of the Apostles ? for that those things which are written must be done , God testifieth , &c. If therefore either it be commanded in the Gospell or conteined in the Epistles and Acts of the Apostles , let this tradition be kept as holie . Now , séeing there is no testimony of the holie scripture to approue the necessitie of water , I take your wordes ( directly contrary to the scriptures ) to be vnderstood rather of those which vse water only contrarie to the text , then wine only according to the expresse mention of the text . Your glose of the Canon De consecra . dist. 2. cap. sicut in glossa . law doth tell that Doctors haue said , that water is to be mingled in the cup only for honestie or decencie , and therefore not of necessitie to the Sacrament . And that amongst others Thomas Aquinas granteth . Polydore Virgil referreth the fist institution thereof to Alexander Plati . in Alexander 1. Durand . Rati . diuin. lib. 4. rubri : de officio sacerdotis , &c. Thom. Aquin. pa 3. q. 7● . art. 3 the first , Bishop of Rome . P●atina séemeth to agrée with him . So Durand saith : Water is mingled in the cup with the wine , by the institution of Pope Alexander the first . And as touching Christes vsing of water , Thomas Aquinas maketh it but a probabilitie and no certaine truth : It is probably beleeued that our Lord instituted this Sacrament in wine mingled with water according to the manner of that country . Your Councell of Trent saith no more : It is supposed that our Lord did so . And in a conference betwixt Anselmus a Bishop of Saxome , and Nech●tes Patriarch of Nicomedia , Anno domini Centur. Magdebur . cap. 12. 1138. Ne●hites obiecting that Christ our Sauiour did not vse water in the consecration , Anselmus answereth by likelihood that he did so , because in Palestina the maner is to mingle water with their wine . Now if it were done according to the maner of that country , then it was done to abate the strength of the wine and not for any such mysterie as some haue imagined . In manie Countries where their wines are verie strong , temperate & sober men vse to qualifie and delaie the heate thereof by mingling water , least it should cause any distemperature to the bodie . And this the Gréeke Churches may séeme to haue respected who consecrated with méere wine , as appeareth by N●chites his spéech in the conference aboue-named ; as also by some editions of Chrysostomes Liturgie , and afterwardes put in water when it was to be administred to the receiuers . The reason which they vsed for not adding water before , was this , because Christ is not read to haue added water ; which accordeth with the words of Chrysostome alleaged by me . But as I said before , I stand not vpon this point . Only I pray you to consider an argument of Bertram in his booke de corpo . & sangui . domini . ad Carol imperat . taking Bertram . de corpo . & sang . domini . his ground from this mixture . Water , saith he , in the Sacrament beareth the image of the people . Therefore if the wine sanctified by the seruice of the Ministers , be bodily turned into the blood of Christ , then the water also which is mingled withall , must needs be bodily or substantially turned into the blood of the beleeuing people . For where there is one sanctification there is consequently one working or effect , and where there is the like reason , there followeth also the like mysterie . But we see in the water there is nothing turned bodily . Consequently therefore in the wine there is nothing bodily shewed . It is taken spiritually whatsoeuer is signified in the water as touching the bodie of the people . It must needes therefore be taken spiritually whatsoeuer is signified in the wine concerning the blood of Christ . Which words amongst other , it hath pleased those honest Censours of the King of Spains appointment , to exempt from being Index Exp● in censura Bertram● . printed any more . A shift wherewith the church of Romes factours haue made vs verie well acquainted in the workes of diuers Authors both old and new .

By the way as you touch this point , you séeme to gleane for the defence of your Masse , telling me that in the Canon aforesaid , there is mention made of S. Iames and S. Basils Masse or Sacrifice left to the Church in writing . By which spéech you put me in mind of that melancholy Athenian , who standing at the sea shore would imagine of euery ship that he saw that it was his ship . For in like sort whersoeuer you finde in any of the auncient Fathers mention made of the mysticall sacrifice , you fancy it straight waies to be ment of your sacrilegious & abhominable sacrifice of the Masse : a cursed deuise of Satan therby to withhold men from the soueraign & only sacrifice of the crosse of Christ . Therfore wheras the Canon mentioneth only Sacrifice , you alledge it to me Masse or Sacrifice . But you shuld know that the Gréeke Fathers were not priuie to the name of your Masse , how soeuer it please some of you to make a cogging argument to blinde the vnlearned by these titles , S. Iames his Masse , S. Chrysostomes Masse , &c. vsed by the translators , but neuer meant by the Authors . The Gréeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which they vsed , may rather import our diuine-seruice then your prophane Masse . And if it must néedes signifie Masse , you may turne the magistrate into a Rom ▪ 13. 6. The Minister of God . Rom. 15. 27. Phil. 2. 25. to minister vnto . Heb. 1 14. ministring spirits . Act. 13. 2. as they were minist●ing to the Lord . Masse-pri●st because he is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , & you may say that to relieue the necessities of Saints is to say Masse , because the Apostle vseth thereof the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Angels shall be called Massing spirits , because they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . You remember since you wold néeds enforce the Apostles saying Masse by the words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . how wel to the purpose you may hereby vnderstand . Your Masse you call of the word Missa ( you should indéed rather of the word Massa , as being an heape of vnprofitable ceremonies and wicked prophanations of the Sacrament of Iesus Christ ) . But Missa importeth not sacrifice as you pretend it doth . The olde vse of the word Missa , discloseth the great abuse of your Masse . It noted the sending away of non-communicants ; none being permitted to staie while the Sacrament was ministred , but only such as did communicate . So doth S. Austen declare , speaking Au. de Temp. ser. 232. as touching the Catechumeni , that is , such as were yet but nouices in religion and vnder chatechising , and therefore as yet not permitted to be partakers of the holie mysteries , nor to be present at the celebration thereof . Behold saith he , after the Sermon there is ( missa ) a dimission or sending away of such as are catechumeni : the faithfull abide still ; we shall come to the place of praier ; &c. And in the fourth Councell of Carthage , order is taken that the Bishop shall forbid concil . carthag. 4. can . 84. none to enter into the Church and heare the word of God , whether he be Gentile , hereticke or Iew , vsque ad missam , vntill the dimission or sending away of the catechumeni . There is no such dimission in your Masse , and of those that staie , none are ordinarily partakers of the Sacrament , but only the Priest . The people are spectatours only of his stage-like and trifling iestures , and go as emptie home as they came thither . But in processe of time custome drew this w●r● to note the celebration of the Sacrament , which was administred to such as remained after this dimission . Whence it is that the pretended Liturgies of S. Iames , Basil , and Chrysostome , are by the translators tearmed by the name of Masse . Whereas those Liturgies , I doubt not , if they were written by those men whose names they beare , as some of them assuredly were not , or if being written by them they remained as their Authors left them , as by the varietie of the editions of Chrysostomes Liturgie it is plain they do not , would rather resemble our communion wherein both the Minister and the people communicate togither in both kinds , then your Masse wherein the people are either idle lookers on , or when they are communicants , are by your sacriledge communicants in one kinde onely , and secluded from the other ; contrary altogither to the practise of the primitiue Church , or which is more , to the expresse institution of our Sauiour Christ . And this is to be séene by those steps of antiquitie which as yet are found in those Liturgies : neither do I sée what great aduantage you haue by them to set any colour vpon your Popish Masse , saue only to blinde the eyes of the simple and vnlearned . And whereas you alledged to me that there was in them praier for the dead , there is good cause to thinke that those praiers were at the first but commemorations and thankesgiuings for the departed in the faith of Christ ; for that in Chrysostomes Liturgie we finde , according to that which then I answered you , thus : We offer vnto thee , ô Lord , this reasonable seruice for those chrysost ●●gia . which rest in the faith , our Auncestors , Fathers , the Patriarches , Prophets , Apostles , Preachers , Euangeli●tes , Martyres , especially for the most holie and pure virgin Mary , &c. But it is contrary to the custome of your church & to your doctrine , to pray for the virgin Mary , for Martyrs , &c. And you vse to that purpose the saying of S. Austen , He doth iniury to the Martyr , which praieth for a Martyr . Therfore August . de verb Apo. ser. 17. these were only spéeches of thankesgiuing vnto God for his louing mercy shewed to those through Iesus Christ , & make nothing at all for your praier for the dead . To this being the auncient custome o● the Church , S. Austen alludeth when he saith : When the Aug. Euchi● . cap. 10. sacrifices either of the altar or of any almes are offered for all that are dead , they are for them that are very good thankesgiuings , &c. which custome of thankesgiuing generally we also vse for all that are departed hence in the faith of Iesus Christ . As for that which he addeth : For them that are not verie euill , they are propitiations , &c. we take it to be a superstitious conceit which after crept into the church , contraried by many in S. Austens time , as may appeare in his booke of questions to Dulcitius , where proposing the question of Dulcitius , whether oblations for the dead did auaile them ( whereby it appeareth it was a matter controuersed in that time ) he answereth : To this many say that if there might be any good done herein August de 8. quaest. D●lcitij q. 2. after death , how much rather should the soule it selfe procure rest for it selfe by it owne confession of sinnes there made , then that an oblation should be procured for the rest thereof by other man ? A reason not without some weight if it be well considered .

But in that place afore-named of S. Austen , I would not you should be deceiued to thinke that he meaneth the sacrifices of the altar , for the offering or sacrificing of the bodie and blood of Christ , wheras indéed he meaneth it of the offerings ( as we also call them ) which euery particular man offered at the Sacrament , which were employed either to the seruice of the Sacrament , or to the reliefe of the poore , or to other sacred and godly vses . Which maner of offering Hierom in 1. Cor. 11. S. Hierome declareth vpon those words of the Apostle : When ye come togither , &c. This he speaketh , saith he , because when they met in the church , they offered their offerings seuerally , and after the communion , eating a supper in common , they spent there in the church whatsoeuer remained vnto them of the sacrifices . To which purpose sundrie other like places might be alleaged . And this is one reason amongst the rest , why sometimes we finde mention of sacrifice offered in the Sacrament .

But I know , M. Spence , what sacrifice it is that you meane : a sacrifice properly so called of the verie bodie and blood of Christ , propitiatory for the sinnes of quicke and dead , offered really and indéed euery day by the hands of a wretched and sinfull priest , who must intreat God in behalfe of the sacrifice of Christs bodie and blood , that he will looke downe mercifully vpon it and accept it , &c. The verie naming of which things cannot but be loathsome to a true Christian heart , which simply beléeueth out of the word of God that Christ hauing purged our sinnes by once offering himselfe vpon his crosse Heb. 1. 3. & 9. 26. 28. Cap. ● . 27. Cap. 10. 1● . is ascended into heauen , neither needeth to be often offered because by that once offring he hath fully perfected the worke of one attonement and forgiuenesse of sinnes , and therefore that there is now no other sacrifice or offering propitiatorie for sinne : I say not only no other thing offered , but no other offering or sacrificing for remission of sin . Reade vprightly , M. Spence , and with féeling of conscience the 7. 9. and 10. to the Hebrewes . The sayings are cleare as the sun-light , and in vaine do your Rhemists struggle & striue to darken the light of them . There is none almost that knoweth anie thing as touching religion , but can see how their commentarie is controlled by the text . Consider this argument out of the tenth chapter : where there is forgiuenesse of sinnes there is no more offering for sinne . By the sacrifice of Christ vpon his crosse there is forgiuenesse of sinnes : for his blood was there shead for the forgiuenesse of sinnes . Therefore after Christs sacrifice vpon his crosse there is no more offering for sinne . The Apostle in that place reiecting the sacrifices of the old law , as which could not sanctifie as touching the Hebr. 10. 1. 2. conscience those that came vnto them ( for if they could , they should not haue bene often offered ) substitateth in place therof the true , entier , and only sacrifice of Christ vpon his crosse . Who hauing a bodie 5. 7. fitted him , commeth according to the will of his father into the world to sanctifie vs by the offering of his bodie once . And whereas , 10. 11. saith he , the priests of the old law do daily and oftentimes offer their sacrifices ( an argument that they tooke not away sinne ) this man hauing offered one offering for sinne , is gone into heauen not to offer vp himselfe often , saith he , chap. 9. for then he should haue often cap. 9. 25. suffered since the foundation of the world , but waiting hencefoorth till his foes be made his footestoole : inferring withall , that he néedeth cap. 10. 13. 14. not to be often offered because by one offering or oblation of himselfe , he hath perfected and that for euer them that are sanctified . Now that he hath perfected vs , and therefore that there néedeth no other sacrifice or offering for sinne , he proueth by the words of Ieremy , 15. who defineth the new Testament , the ground whereof is the bloodsheading of Iesus Christ by the forgiuenesse of sinnes , concluding thereupon ; Now where remission of these is , there is no more 18. offering for sinne . Collect the Apostles reason thus : If after that once offering there be no more offering for sinne , then surely by that once offering he perfected vs . But after that once offering there is no more offering for sinne ; therefore by that once offering he hath perfected vs . The assumption or minor he proueth thus : Where forgiuenesse of sinnes is , there is no more offering for sinne . But by that once offering there is forgiuenesse of sinnes ; therefore after that once offering there is no more offering for sinne . Examine this collection and sée how it goeth hand in hand with the Apostles words . Which is so peremptory & resolute against the sacriledge of the masse ▪ that your Rhemists without any colour or shew of probabilitie by the text , do force vpon the word oblation a straunge meaning , as if the Apostle had said ; There is no Rhem. Annot. Hebr. 10. 18. second baptisme wherby we may haue applied vnto vs the full pardon and remission of our sinnes . What should I here say ? I ma● Campian . rat . 1 iustly retort vppon them the wordes of Campian : What ? is it so ? ● there such peruersnesse , such presumption , and shamelesnesse in men Cicer. epist. 12. lib. 5. Lucceio . But they practise that which the Heathen Orator saith : He whic● hath once passed the bounds of modestie and shamefastnesse , mu● needes shew himselfe lustily impudent and shamelesse . What hat● the Apostle to do with Baptisme in this text ? Why did they no● shew how this sence hangeth vpon the words gone before ? Wh● did they forgo the expositions of the Fathers ? of Chrysostome : Hee chrysost. Oecumen . Theodor . &c ▪ in Hebr. 10. forgaue sinnes when he gaue the Testament , and he gaue the Testament by sacrifice . If therfore he forgaue sinnes by one oblation or sacrifice , there needeth not now any seconde : of Oecumenius out of Photius : What need is there of many oblations , seeing that one which Christ hath yeelded is sufficient to take away sinne ? Theodoret : There is now no offering for sinne . For it is superfluous , forgiuenesse of sinne beeing giuen alreadie : of Theophylact : If remission of sinnes be graunted by one oblation , what neede we now any second : of Primasius : for Christ which is our sacrifice is not to be offered againe for sinne . For this was once done and needeth not to be done a second time : of Ambrose : for one offering of the bodie of Christ maketh perfect them that are sanctified , as which giueth full and perfect remission of sinnes , &c. Wherfore it needeth not that we should daily purge with daily sacrifices as they did in the old law . Did they sée none of these expositions ? yes without doubt , they saw them and shut their eyes against them . The Lord will require it in his due time . But hereby we vnderstand the meaning of their words in their Preface to the Epistles , that if in the scriptures there sound any thing to vs contrary to their doctrine , we must assure our selues that we faile of the right sense . So that be the words neuer so plain , yet if they sound either to the auncient Fathers or to vs contrarie to the Romish doctrine , we must thinke that neither the auncient Fathers nor we attaine to the right vnderstanding of the wordes . But we are not so madde vpon the warrant of any Philosopher to say that snow is blacke , so long as our eyes assure vs that snow is white .

I know here what you are readie to obiect ; namely , that the Fathers in speaking of the Eucharist , vse verie commonly a mention of sacrifice , and cal the same by the name of sacrifice , and all this you referre to the sacriledge of the Masse . But you should not conceiue so of the Fathers , as to thinke that they meant any thing contrarie to so expresse and manifest scripture , so long as they do so plainly tel you what they meant in vsing the name of sacrifice . You should remember the corrections which Chrysostome & Ambrose do vse when Chrysost. & Ambros . in Hebr. 10. naming their offering of sacrifice they adde , Or rather wee worke the remembrance of a sacrifice . You should take notice of the exposition of Theophylact ; Wee offer him the same alwaies , or rather wee Theophy . ibid. make a remembrance of the offering of him , as if he were offered or sacrificed at this time : and of the words of Eusebius , After all hauing Euseb. de demonstrat . Euang. lib. 1. cap. 10. Theodor. in Hebr. 8. wrought a wonderfull and excellent sacrifice vnto his father , he offered for the saluation of vs all and ordained that wee should offer the remembrance therof vnto God in steed of a sacrifice : and of Theodoret : Why do the priests of the new Testament vse a mysticall Liturgie or sacrifice ? It is cleare to them that are instructed in diuine matters that we do not offer another sacrifice , but do performe a remembrance of that one and sauing sacrifice . For this commandement the Lord himselfe gaue ; Do this , saith hee , in the remembrance of me ; that by beholding the figures , we might call to minde the sufferings which he vndertooke in our behalfe . And of S. Austen : The flesh August . con. faust . Manich. lib. 20. ca. 2● . & blood of this sacrifice was promised before the comming of Christ by sacrifices of resemblance : in the passion of Christ it was giuen in verie truth : after the ascension of Christ it is celebrated by a Sacrament of remembrance . Learne by this place to put difference betwixt in verie truth , and by a Sacrament of remembrance , and learne by all these places , that the Eucharist is not a sacrifice properly so called , wherein Christ is really and properly and in verie truth sacrificed , but a Sacrament , a commomoration and remembrance of a sacrifice . Adde hereunto if you will the words of saint Austen : Was not Christ once offered in himselfe , and yet in a mysterie or Sacrament August . ep. 23. he is euerie day offered for the people ? For if Sacraments had not a kinde of resemblance of those thinges whereof they are Sacraments , they should not be Sacraments at all . Now by reason of this resemblance they doe most commonly take the names of the things themselues . Note in these words the difference betwixt being offered in himselfe , and being offered in a Sacrament or mysterie , & learn that this spéech of being offered or sacrificed , when it respecteth the Sacrament , hath his vse and meaning not of the things themselues , but of the resemblance of the things , and therefore is not indéed to be offered in himselfe . And therfore your owne glose of the Canon law expoundeth it : Christ is sacrificed , that is , the sacrificing of him is represented , De consec . dist. 2. cap. semel . and there is a remembrance made of his passion ▪ The sacrifice of the death and passion of Jesus Christ is the whole matter and substance of this mysterie : it is there proposed : the remembrance thereof renued as if it were now done ; the thing resembled by outward signes of breaking the bread and powring the wine : the hearts of men stirred vp as if they saw Christ nailed to the crosse : the sacrifice of this passion is presented by the faith & praiers of the church vnto God , thereby to haue forgiuenesse of sinnes : nothing here remembred but Christes sacrificing himselfe vpon the crosse . What maruell then though the Fathers called this mysterie a sacrifice , though neuer imagining your sacrifice of the Masse ? What maruell though they will vs to behold in this Sacrament the sacrifice of our price ; the sacrifice of sacrifices , the vnbloudie seruice of the sacrifice , the sacrifice of our mediator and such like : which spéeches your men foolishly and vnlearnedly or rather impudently and vnconscionably alleage for their supposed sacrifice of the Masse . They haue expounded their owne meaning as you haue heard , and pitifully do your Rhemists labour and striue to winde themselues out of those expositions and cannot preuaile . And as for the same spéeches of the Fathers as touching sacrifice , we would not doubt ●● speake in this case as they did , but that your hereticall doctrine hath caused Gods people to conceiue of sacrifice otherwise then the Fathers intended . Albeit vpon like occasions we are not far from that vehemencie of wordes which we finde to haue bene vsed by them , nay we are no whit behinde them .

But thinke with your selfe , M. Spence is not the death and passion of Christ the onely sacrifice for the fo●giuenesse of sins ? Shame be on his face that will deny it . What sacrifice then is there in the Eucharist ? Verily Cyprian saith ; The passion of Christ is the sacrifice Cypr. lib 2. epist. 3. P●o●p . in psal. 129. which we offer . And Prosper : What propitiation is there but sacrifice , and what sacrifice but the killing of that lambe , which hath taken away the sinne of the world : and your owne counterfeit decretall of Alexander the first : The passion of Christ is to be remembred Alexan. epist. 1. to . 1. concil . in these sacrifices , and the same to be offered to the Lord . But doth Christ really suffer & die in the Sacrament ? Is he there sweating water and blood ? is he buffeted with fists , spit in the face , crowned with thornes , derided , accused , condemned , nailed to the crosse . Indéed the auncient fathers say as touching the Sacrament , Chrysostome thus : While that death is performed and dreadfull sacrifice : Chrysost in Acta h●m . 21. De con●e . di●t . 2. cap. Quid●●t san●u● . Cyp de caena domini . Chr●●ost . in Encaen●j● . H●●ron ●● psa. 95. and Gregorie : Christ d●eth again in this mysterie ; his flesh suffereth for the saluation of the people : and Cyprian , We sticke to the crosse , we sucke the blood and fasten our tongues within the wounds of our redeemer ; and Chrysostome againe : Good Lord , the iudge himselfe is led to the iudgement seat , the creator is set before the creature : he which cannot be seene of the angels is spitted at by a seruant , he tasteth gall and v●neger , he is thrust in with a speare , he is put into a graue , &c. In which maner of speaking S. Hierome saith : Happie is he in whose heart Christ is euerie day borne : and againe : Christ is crucified for vs euerie day : and S. Austen : Then is Christ slaine vnto Aug. ouaes● . Euan. li 2. q. 33. euery man when he beleeueth him to haue bene slaine . Doe you thinke that these thinges are really done in the Sacrament as the words sound ? that Christ indeed suffereth , dieth , is burted ; that we cleaue to his crosse , & c ? S. Austen telleth you : The offering of the De cons. dist. 2. cap. Hoc est . flesh which is performed by the hands of the priest is called the passion , death , and crucifying of Christ not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mysterie . Séeing then the passion of Christ is the sacrifice which we offer , and the passion of Christ is to be vnderstood in the Sacrament , not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mysterie : it followeth that that sacrifice is likewise ●o to be vnderstood , not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mysserie , and therefore that the sacrifice which you pretend , is indéed sacriledge as I haue termed it , and a manifest derogation from the sufficiency of Christs sacrifice vpon his crosse .

As touching the matter of Transubstantiation , I alleaged vnto G●las . cont. ●u y●h . & N●st . you the sentence of Ge●as●●● Bishop of Rome : There ceaseth not to be the substance or nature of bread and wine . You answere me first , that you suspect it to be corrupted by some of ours . There is no cause M. Spence , of that suspition : but the shamelesse dealing of some leaud varlets of your side is notorious that way , and infamous through all the Church of God . Your owne clerkes cannot deny the truth of this allegation , as they do not of many other sayings of the auncient Fathers , as plainly contrary to your positions as this is . Albeit Index Expurg . in censura Bertrami . they practise therein that which they professe in the Index Expurgatorius , where they say : In the old Catholicke Doctors we beare with many errours , and we extenuate them , excuse them , & by some deuised shift do oftentimes deny them , and faine a conuenient meaning of them when they are opposed vnto vs in disputations , or in contention with our aduersaries . Indéed without these pretie shifts your men could finde no matter whereof to compile their answers . But being taken for truly alleaged , you say , yet the whole faith of Christs Church in that point may not by his testimony be reproued against so many witnesses of scriptures and Fathers to the contrarie . Whereas you should remember that Gelasius was Bishop of Rome , & that what he wrote , he wrote it by way of iudgement and determination against an hereticke , and therfore by your owne defence could not erre . And if it had bene against the receiued faith of the Catholicke Church in those daies , the heretickes against whom he wrote , would haue returned it vpon him to his great reproach . But he spake as other auncient Fathers had done before him , as Theodor. dial. 1. Theodoret : He which called himselfe a vine , did honour the visible elements and signes with the name of his bodie and blood , not changing their nature , but adding grace vnto nature . And againe ; The Dial. 2. mysticall signes after consecration do not go from their own nature , for they continue in their former substance , figure and forme , &c. chrysost. ad caesarium Monach . August . apud ●edam . in 1. cor 10. Chrysostome thus : Before the bread be consecrated , we call it bread , but the grace of God sanctifying it by the ministerie of the priest , it is freed from the name of bread , & is vouchsafed the name of the Lords bodie , although the nature of bread remaine in it . Austen thus : That which you see is bread and the cup , which your eyes also do tell you . De consect . dist. 2 cap. ●oc est . But as touching that which your faith requireth for in ●ruction , bread is the bodie of Christ , and the cup is his blood . And againe : This is it which we say , which by all meanes we labour to approue , that the sacrifice of the Church consisteth of two things ; the visible forme of the elements , and the inuisible flesh and blood of our Lorde Iesus Christ : of the Sacrament and the matter of the Sacrament , that is , the bodie of Christ . And that you may not take that visible forme of the elements for your emptie formes and accidentes without substance , which and many other things your Censours aboue-named say , The latter age of the Church subtilly and truly added by the holie Index Expurgat . in censura Bertrami . Ghost , confessing thereby that these Popish sub●ilties were not knowne at all to the auncient Fathers , take withall that which he addeth : Euen as the person of Christ consisteth of God and man , for that Christ is true God , & true man : because euery thing conteineth the nature and truth of those things , whereof it is made . By which rule you may vnderstand also the saying of Irenee : The Eucharist Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34. consisteth of two things , an earthly and a heauenly ; namely so as that it conteineth the nature and truth of them both . By these places and many other like it is euident , that albeit in this Sacrament there is yéelded vnto the faith of the receiuer the bodie and blood of Christ , and the whole power and vertue thereof to euerlasting life , yet there ceaseth not to be the substance , nature and truth of bread and wine . Which is the purport of Gelasiu● his words ; By the Sacraments which we receiue of the bodie and blood of Christ , we are made partakers of the diuine nature , and yet there ceaseth not to be the subsance or nature of bread and wine . The force of which words , and of the wordes of Theodoret you shall perceiue the better , if you know how they are directed against Eutyches the hereticke . The hereticke in Theodorets Dialogues by a comparison drawen from Dial. ● . the sacrament , wold shew how the bodie of Christ after his assumption into heauen was swallowed vp , as it were , of his diuinitie , and so Christ ceased to be truly man . As , said he , the bread and wine before the blessing are one thing , but after the blessing become another , and are changed : so the bodie or humanitie of Christ whereby he was truly man before , is after-his ascension & glorification changed into the substance of God . But Theodoret answereth him ; Thou art taken in the nettes which thou thy selfe hast wouen . For as the bread and wine , albeit in vertue and power they implie the bodie and blood of Christ , yet retaine still the substance & truth of nature which they had before ; so the bodie of Christ albeit it be glorified and aduanced to high and excellent dignitie , yet remaineth still the same in substance and propertie of nature as it was before . Which saint Austen expresseth thus , speaking of the bodie of Christ : To August . ep. 57. which indeed he hath giuen immortalitie , but hath not taken away the nature thereof . If Eu●yches were now aliue , he would surely be a Papist . Your new and grosse heresie of Transubstantiation had bene a good neast for him to shroude himselfe in . For he might and would haue said , that as the bread and wine in the sacrament after consecration do leaue their former substance , and are changed into another , so the bodie of Christ , although it were first a true and naturall bodie , yet after his ascension and glorification was chaunged into another nature and substance of the Godhead . A meete couer cyp. de caena domini . for such a cup. You may remember that I shewed you how Cyprian doth exemplifie the matter of the sacrament , by the diuinitie & humanitie of Christ , that as Iesus Christ though truly God , yet was not letted thereby to be truly man ; so the sacrament though it implie sacramentally not only the vertue & power , but also the truth of the bodie and blood of Christ , yet is not therby hindered from hauing in it the substance and nature of bread & wine . And as Christ was changed in nature , not by leauing his former nature of Godhead , but by taking to him the nature of man , so bread and wine were chaunged in nature not by leauing their former nature & substance , but by hauing vnited vnto them by the working of the holie Ghost in such maner as I haue said , the substance and effect of the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ .

But you cannot sée how the words of Christ , This is my bodie , &c. can be vnderstood otherwise but of your Transubstantiation . There is , M. Spence , a veile of preiudice lying before your heart , which blindeth your eyes that you cannot sée it . Otherwise you might know by the very spéeches of the auncient Fathers to whom you referre your selfe , that Christ called bread and wine his bodie and blood : and that after the same maner of sacramentall speaking which I noted vnto you before out of saint Austen : Sacraments because August . ep. 23. of the resemblance , do most commonly take the names of the things themselues which they do resemble . Whereof he saith for example in the same place . The Sacrament of Christes bodie is after a certaine maner the bodie of Christ . But Cyprian telleth you : Our Cypr. ll. 1. ep. 6. Lord called the bread made by the vniting of many cornes his bodie , and the wine pressed out of many clusters and grapes hee called his blood . And Chrysostome saith of bread in the sacrament ; The bread chrysost. ad caesar. Theod. dia. 1. is vouchsafed the name of our Lords bodie . And Theodoret as before ; Christ honored the visible signes with the name of his body & blood . And S. Austen : The bread is the bodie of Christ . And Theodoret againe : Aug. ap●d B●dam in 1. cor. 10. Our Sauiour chaunged the names , and gaue vnto his body the name of the signe , and to the signe the name of his bodie . And Cyprian againe : Our Lorde gaue at the table with his owne handes bread Theod dial . 1. Cypr. de vnct . Chrismatis . and wine , and : bread and wine are his flesh and blood . The signes and the things signified are counted by one name . And if you wold know the cause why Christ did vse this exchaunge of names , Theodoret telleth you straightwaies after : He would haue those that are partakers of the diuine mysteries not to regard the nature of those things which are seene , but because of the changing of the names to beleeue the chaunge which is wrought by grace : namely , that our mindes may be fixed not vpon the signs , but vpon the things signified therby ; as he that hath any thing assured vnto him by hand and seale , respecteth not the paper or the writing or the seale , but the things that are confirmed and assured vnto him hereby . By these you may vnderstand that it was bread which Christ called his bodie , and as Cypr. lib. 2. ep●st . 3. Aug. cont. Ad●m . c2 . 12. Tertul cont. Marcionem . lib. 4. Cyprian saith , That it was wine which he called his blood . And let S. Austen tell you the same : Our Lord doubted not to say , This is my body , when he gaue the sign of his body . So Tertullian ; The bread which Christ tooke and distributed to his disciples he made his bodie , saying , this is my body , that is to say , a figure of my bodie . ; Wherby you may conceiue that bread and wine are not really chaunged into the bodie and blood , as you teach , but remaining in substance the same they were , are in vse and propertie the signes and figures of the bodie and blood of Christ . And as Gelasius addeth to the words before alleaged ; The image and resemblance of the Lords body and blood is celebrated in the exercise of the Sacraments . Yet they are not naked and bare signes , as you are wont hereupon to cauill , but substantiall and effectuall signes or seales rather , assuring our faith of the things signified thereby , and deliuering as it were into our hands and possession the whole fruite and benefit of the death and passion of Iesus Christ . But you will vrge perhaps that Tertullian saith ; Christ made the bread his bodie : which words your men are wont to alleage out of the former part of the sentence , guilefully concealing the end of the same . Tertullian declareth his owne meaning , that he vnderstandeth a figure of the bodie . But you may further Ioh. 1. 1● . remember that the Gospell saith ; The word was made flesh , and yet it ceased not to be the word : so the bread is made the bodie of Christ , and yet it ceaseth not to be the bread . S. Austen saith : August . apud Bedam in 1. cor. 10. Christ hath commended vnto vs in this Sacrament his body & blood , which also he made vs to be ; and by his mercy we are that which we do receiue : yet we are not transubstantiated into the bodie & blood of Christ . Vnderstand therefore that the bread is made the bodie of Christ after a certain maner , and not in the truth of the thing , but in a signifying mysterie .

As touching the bodily and Popish eating & drinking of Christs flesh and blood grounded on this point of transubstantiation , Christ our Sauiour said to the Iewes as S. Austen expoundeth his words , August . in Psal 98. Ye shall not eate this bodie which you see , nor drinke that blood which they shall shead that shall crucifie me . I haue commended vnto you a Sacrament . Being spiritually vnderstood , it shall giue you life . Otherwise as Origen saith : There is in the new Testament a letter Orig. in Leuit. hom. 7. which killeth him that doth not spiritually vnderstand it . For if thou follow according to the letter that that is written , Except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man & drinke his blood , that letter killeth ▪ For saith S. Austen , it seemeth to commaund a horrible fact and hainous Aug. de doctr. christ . lib. 3. c. 16. matter . Therfore it is a figure , willing vs to communicate of the passion of Christ , and profitably to laie vp in our memory that his flesh was crucified and wounded for vs . Be hold and consider well what these men teach you , that the spéeches which are vsed as touching eating and drinking the flesh and blood of Christ are figuratiue speeches ; that they are not literally to be vnderstood ; that we doe not bodily eate Christs flesh and drinke his blood . And this is the plaine truth and simplicitie of the Fathers teaching , the euidence whereof cannot be auoided but by those shifts which I mentioned before : We extenuate them , we excuse them ; by some deuised lie we oft denie them , or faine of them some conuenient meaning .

But you vrge the circumstance of the text . Which shal be giuen : which shal be shead , &c. Marke well the speeches , say you . An argument péeuishly alleaged by Friar Campian , and nothing at all to the Camp. Rat. ● . purpose . For when we say that bread and wine are the Sacraments of the bodie and blood of Christ , do we not meane , of the bodie which was giuen , and the blood that was shead for vs ? Do we teach the receiuing of the bodie & blood of Christ by faith any otherwise then being broken and shead for the forgiuenesse of our sinnes ? When S. Aushen saith , The signe of the bodie , & Tertullian , a figure of the bodie , expounding the words , This is my bodie , do they not vnderstand , Which is giuen , &c. This reason you may verie well spare hereafter .

The speeches , you say , are wonderfull , as most true . Yet the spéeches , M. Spence , are not so wonderfull as the things themselues , that our wretched and sinfull bodies should by these Sacraments through the working of the holie Ghost be really and indéed vnited & ioyned vnto the bodie of Iesus Christ being in heauen , so as to be his members , flesh of his flesh , and bone of his bones , and receiue thereof such vertue and power as that though they be buried in the earth and consumed to dust and ashes , yet they should be raised vp againe and made partakers of immortalitie and glorie : that God should hereby effectually communicate and impart vnto vs the inestimable riches of his grace , and the whole fruite and benefite of whatsoeuer Christ hath done or suffered in his bodie for mankinde , forgiuenesse of sinnes , iustification , sanctification , the blessing & fauou● of God and euerlasting life . You may know M. Spence what your owne Oration saith : Some not without probabilitie expound the truth of the flesh and blood of Christ to be the efficiencie thereof , De consecr. dist 2. cap. species . that is , the forgiuenesse of sinnes . We adde somewhat to this probabilitie , when we teach in the Sacrament a true and effectuall vniting of vs to the bodie of Christ , whereby he dwelleth in vs and we in him , he is one with vs and we with him , whereby as he hath taken vpon him what is ours , sinne and death : so he yéeldeth vnto vs what is his , righteousnesse and euerlasting life . Which vnion with Christ is wrought in all those , and in those only which do with true and liuely faith receiue these holie mysteries : where as that Capernaitish eating and drinking of Christs bodie and blood which your doctrine yéeldeth , is common to all gracelesse and prophane persons ; that I say nothing of those monstrous , blasphemous , and horrible conceits which some of your captaines haue fallen into by defence thereof .

But yet further you alleage the vniformenesse of the wordes of Christ in the Euangelists Mat. Mar. Luc. And in S. Paul , 1. Cor. 11. all saying : This is my bodie , wheras the scripture where it meaneth not a thing literally doth vary in the vttering of it . Which you speake vppon the warrant of some Allen , or Parsons , or Seminarie reader telling you so and you haue beléeued it . But they haue deceiued you , both in the on & and in the other . For in the like matter you shall find in Moses law by an vniforme and constant spéech , that the sacrifices of the law are called expiations , propitiations and attonements for sinne , which were not so indéed , but they were so called sacramentally , because they were types and figures , seales and assurances of the true attonement which should be wrought by the bloodsheading of our Lord Iesus . Again , if you had looked in S. Luke and Luc 22. 20. 1. cor. 11. 25. S. Paul , you should haue found the words , This is my blood , expressed by such maner of spéech as tendeth directly to the ouerthrow of your transubstantiation . For there it is said ; This cup is the new Testament in my blood , &c where I hope you will not say , that the cup is transubstantiated into the Testament , but that the wordes must be figuratiuely vnderstood . Then you must say , that the cup , that is , the outward and visible element of wine deliuered in the cup , is the seale of the new Testament & couenant of grace , which is dedicated and established by the bloodsheading of Iesus Christ : by which seale we haue assurance offered vnto vs to be partakers through Christ of those benefits which God hath promised vnto the faithfull in the same Testament ; the summe whereof is set downe by the Prophet Ier , 31. 32 , &c. Now if any man should take it thus : Ier. 31. 32. This cup , that is , this my blood in the cup is the new Testament in my blood , your selfe would say , he spake foolishly and absurdly .

Thus therefore your collections from the text are no collections . Some of your owne side , no meane men , haue confessed indéed that transubstantiation cannot be enforced by the words of the text . In truth it cannot . God open your eyes that you may sée his truth and subdue the affections of your heart , that you may yéeld vnto it . By that litle spéech which I haue had with you , I perceiue you are too too far in loue with that whoore of Rome . She flattereth you , and maketh shew of goodly names , and pretendeth great deuotion , as the harlot in the Prouerbes : I haue peace offeringes ; to day haue I paide my Prou. 7. 14. vowes : and you beléeue whatsoeuer she saith vnto you . I shewed you the expresse testimonies of the Fathers , gainsaying her as touching the bookes of Canonicall scriptures : but you thinke she may approue them for Canonicall which were not so with the Fathers . I declared the impudencie of the Rhemish glosers , in auouching the storie of the assumption of the virgin Mary , controlled by their owne computation of yeares . But because the Roomish harlot hath approued this fable , and the Rhemists do but sooth her in that which she hath affirmed , you will , rather then y●eld , say that the supposed reporter of this storie being a Counsellor of Athens , and this being done in Iudea , was there for that purpose thrée or foure yeares before he was conuerted to Christianitie . I shewed you the sophis●ry of the same honest men in peruerting the place before alleaged out of the tenth to the Hebru●s : but because they haue set it down in fauour of the Romish Masse , you will not goe from it , though it be without shewe of reason and contrary to common sense . To shewe the plaine euidence of scripture as touching our doctrine of iustification , I cited those words , That a man is iustified by faith without Rom. 3. 2● . Iam. 2. 21. 24. the workes of the law . You crosse it with S. Iames his words , That Abraham was iu●●ified by workes , and not by faith only . I answere directly out of S. Paul : If Abraham were iustified by workes , he had Rom 4. 2. to reioyce , but not with God : by which place Oecumenius accordeth Oecumen . in Rom. 4. the former two , and by which conference it appeareth , that whosoeuer is iustified by faith before God , doth also approue his true faith by workes of righteousnesse before men , but yet that no mans righteousnesse of workes is such , as wherby he may stand holy & blamelesse and without fault in the sight of God , but that all are in this respect to cry out ; Enter not into iudgement with thy seruant ; for in thy sight no man liuing shal be iustified . Wherupon S. Austen saith : August . in P●al. 142. saith : Let the Apostles say ; forgiue vs our trespasses , &c. And when it shall be saide vnto them , Why say you so ? what are your trespasses ; Let them answere : because no man liuing shall be iustified in thy sight : but you beléeue because your loue hath told you so , that men are by the righteousnesse and merits of workes to be iustified in the sight of God .

Take héede , M. Spence , deceiue not your selfe . There is but one heauen and one faith that bringeth thither . God only hath reuealed that faith . Séeke it there where he hath reuealed it . Your ground is now only vppon men : yet neither will Popery stand vppon that ground , if you tie not your selfe to your new builders . Bishop Iewel amongst others , hath detected the vanitie of their building in many points . But you say that one Steuens beyond the sea , declared his bad dealing in his writing to that purpose . But were you so simple to credit what Steuens said ? Doe you not know that many when they come to your Seminaries will haue some what to say , whereby to commend themselues and to discredit vs , and therefore when they want truth , must néeds coyne lies ? One alleaged to me when I was in Oxford , how Iewell had falsified a place out of Thomas Aquinas . He spake it by heare-say as you do . I went into a Library of verie auncient cop●es , and found it word for word as it was cited . It was maruell that M. Harding could not finde that kinde of dealing . It would haue giuen him good matter for a far more substantiall answere . But I might as well vpon report tell you that Harding perplexed in mind néere his death , wished that his soule might haue place with Bishop Iewels soule . I haue heard that Hart the Iesuite being demanded thereof in the Tower , could not make any great deniall of it . But the truth lieth not in these matters . As for Bishops Iewels writings , I will lend you the booke if it please you . It were maruell that no sillable or sentence should be mistaken in that multitude of allegations , the sight whereof troubled M. Hardings minde , as I conceiue by the Preface of his fond detection ; but for the substance of the cause , and iustifying the points defended , I will vndertake to make good vnto you the allegations , for so many of the auncient Fathers as I haue , and some of the principall you know I haue , and can quickly get more . And what I haue here written , I will be readie to approue vnto you , and to make plaine whatsoeuer is here for want of conuenient leisure briefly , and therfore perhaps obscurely collected . The God of peace guide vs in the way of peace , and graunt vs to know his truth , and to perseuere in the knowledge thereof vnto the ende .