WHereas M. Bishop made motion to his Maiesty ; to accept of the Catholike faith , I tooke occasion to note that the Catholike faith is so called of the Catholike Church , and consequently to shew that the Catholike Church by the very signification of the word importeth the vniuersal Church , so called as I noted out of Austin and Athanasius , a a Aug. de vnit . Eccles. cap. 2. Q●am maiores nostri Catholicam nominar●t vt ex ipso nomine ostenderent qui● per totum est . Athanas . quest. 71. Catholica propterea quòd per totum mundum diffusa sit . Quia per totum est , because it is ouer all or through all the world , and is not tyed to any Countrey , place , person , or condition of men : b b Aug. in Psal. 56. Corput eius est Eccles●● , non h●c aut illa , ●ed toto orbe diffusa ; nec ea quae nunc est in hominibus qui pr●sentem vitam agunt , sed ad ●am pertinentibus ●●iam his qui fuerunt ante nos , & his qui fut●ri sunt post nos vsque in sinem seculi . Not this Church or that Church as S. Austin further saith , but the Church dispersed through the whole world , and not that which consisteth in men now presently liuing , but so as that there belong to it both those that haue been before vs , and shall be after vs to the worlds end . Now before I could conueniently make vse and application hereof , I was to remoue the stumbling blocke that lay in the way by the absurd presumption of the Church of Rome , which like c c Anian . fabul . the Asse in the fable of Antanus , that to make himselfe terrible put on him a Lions skin ; so being become the Asse to carry Balaam the false Prophet , who for d d 2. Pet. 2. 15. Apoc. 2. 13. the wages of vnrighteousnesse hath set his heart to curse and scandalize the people of God , to take away the reproch hereof , and to gaine to it selfe a soueraigne authority ouer other Churches , hath laboured by all meanes to entitle it selfe to a propriety of the name of the Catholike Church , so as none should be taken to be a member of the Catholike Church , but only as he is subiect to the church of Rome . Duraeus the Iesuit out of the abundance of his Catholike wit , hath told vs a tale , which the old Catholike Church neuer once dreamed of , that e e Duraeus . cont . Whitak . lib. 3. In nullam planè aliam Catholicae Ecclesiae nomen & quaecunque de Christi Ecclesia Prophetae praedixerunt quàm in Romanam conuenire possunt . the name of the Catholike Church and those things which the Prophets haue forespoken of the Church of Christ , can agree to no other but to the Roman Church . Vpon this mad conceipt they haue made of the holy Catholike Church , a holy Catholike Roman Church ; and wheras the Nicene Councell taught vs to say , I beleeue one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church , they teach vs to expound it , f f Bristow , Reply to Doctor Fulke , cap. 10. dem. 6. I beleeue one holy Catholike and Apostolike , that is , Roman Church : and therefore bind men by a principle of Catechisme g g Ledesm . Catechis . translat . into English . to beleeue all that the holy Catholike Roman Church beleeueth and holdeth . It is not enough for interpretation of the Catholike Church in the articles of our beleefe , to call it h h Aug Hunae . proaem . Catechism . Catholica Ecclesiae nomine intelligo perspicuum & sensui expositum coetum illorum qui baptizativeram sinceramque Christi fidem profitentur , & se Beati Petri successori Romano Pontifici vt Christi in terris Vicario subiectos agnoscunt . the visible company of them that are baptised , and doe professe the true and sincere faith of Christ , vnlesse it be added , and doe acknowledge themselues subiect to the successor of Peter the Bishop of Rome as Christs Vicar vpon earth . Pope Goodface the eighth hauing declared it for a new article of Christian faith , that i i Extrauag . de maiorit . & obedient . e. Vnam Sanctam . Subesse Romano Pontifici omnihumanae creaturae declaramus , dicimus , definimus & pronunciamus 〈◊〉 esse de necessitate saluti● . for euery humane creature it is necessary to saluation to be subiect to the Bishop of Rome . So extremely they doate in this behalfe , as that wheresoeuer they reade the name of the Church or Catholike Church , they presently sing as the horse-bals in the poole amongst the apples , nos poma natamus , & like children that imagine the bels in ringing to sound whatsoeuer they fancy ; so doe vndoubtedly imagine that the church spoken of must needes be meant of their Roman Church . But for the pulling of this visard from their faces , I noted the absurdity that is implied in that stile of the Catholike Roman Church : for the Catholike Church , say I , is the vniuersall Church ; The Roman Church is a particular Church ; therefore to say , the Catholike Roman Church , is all one as to say , the vniuersall particular Church . Against this M. Bishop as a notable Logician taketh exception as an ill shapen argument , consisting all of particular propositions , as if I had here intended a Categorical syllogisme , in moode and figure , which no smatterer but himselfe would euer haue dreamed . The wordes haue plaine implication of an Hypothetical syllogisme seruing to inferre an absurdity against them : If the Catholike Church be the vniuersall Church , & the Roman Church a particular Church , then to say , the Catholike Roman Church , is as to say , the vniuersall particular Church . But it is absurd to say , the vniuersall particular Church . Therefore it is absurd to say , the Catholike Roman Church . Will he haue it reduced for him to a Categoricall syllogisme in moode and figure ? Let him take it thus ; No particular Church can be the Catholike Church . But the Church of Rome is a particular Church . Therefore the Church of Rome cannot be the Catholike Church . Must I proue the maior ? No particular Church can be the vniuersall Church . But the Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church . Therefore no particular Church can be the Catholike Church . So learned a Doctor should not thus haue played boyes-play , but should of himselfe haue conceiued these things being cleare and plaine , without any new aduertisement thereof by the simple Minister . But by this forme , saith he , a man might proue that no one Church in the world were Catholike . But keepe your termes aright M. Bishop , and say as you should , that no one Church in the world is the Catholike Church , and then it is true that by the same argument it is proued that no one Church in the world ( particular Churches being each and euery of them but a part ) can be called the Catholike or Vniuersall Church , which is the whole . And tell vs I pray , good Sir , haue yee found that any of ours hath entitled the Church of England to the name of the Catholike Church ? If not , why then doe you thus abuse your Reader , to put that for an instance , as if we affirmed it so to be ? The truth is , gentle Reader that M. Bishop seeketh to blinde thee by altering the termes that by mee were set downe , naming a Catholike Church , which importeth soundnesse of doctrine in any one Church ; whereas I mention the Catholike Church , as importing the vniuersall extent of the whole Church . It followeth not indeede that because a Church is particular , therefore it is not Catholike , that is , sound in doctrine ; but it followeth that because a Church is particular , therefore it is not the Catholike , that is , the vniuersall Church . Let him direct the argument against the Church of England , as I did against the Church of Rome , and it shall be as strong against the Church of England as against the Church of Rome . Let him say , and wee will not contradict him , The Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church ; the Church of England is a particular Church ; therefore to say the Catholike English Church , is as absurd as to say the vniuersall particular Church ; or more nearely to his owne wordes , Therefore to say , the Church of England is the Catholike Church , is the same as to say , a particular Church is the vniuersall Church . But he turneth the conclusion , that the Church of England is not Catholike , which we hold to be most Catholike , declaring by that addition that he referreth Catholike by a Donatisticall fallacy to quality of doctrine and faith , because more Catholike and most Catholike , haue no vse but only in comparing truth and sincerity of faith . This co●senage of his the learned see well enough , but he careth not for that , because his thrift lieth in abusing the ignorance of the more simple and vnlearned . This not seruing his turne , hee commeth to the particulars , and of the first proposition , The Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church , hee saith that it is both absurd and captious . And why absurd ? Forsooth because the same thing is affirmed of it selfe , for vniuersall is no distinct thing but the very signification of the word Catholike . But what ; is it now absurd to expresse the true signification of a word ? The one is Greeke , the other is English ; and though there be no distinction in the thing , yet is there not a distinction in the tongue ? Is the Roman Catechisme absurd because it saith , k k Catechism . Rom. p. 1. c. 10. sect. 16. Tertia proprietas Ecclesia ea est vt Catholica , nempe , vniuersalis vocetur . The third property of the Church is that it is called Catholike , that is , vniuersall : or might the Catechisme say without absurdity that Catholike is Vniuersall , and must I be absurd because I say , The Catholike Church is the Vniuersall Church ? Surely when words of one language are borrowed to speciall vse in another , the reddition of them in the tongue to which they are borrowed is taken with the learned as supplying the place of a definition , and it is thereby made to appeare whether they be properly and rightly vsed or vnproperly abused . M. Bishop and his fellowes abuse the name of Catholikes and of the Catholike Church , which English men doe not so readily vnderstand . Let them giue the signification of the word , and call themselues vniuersals , & their Church the vniuersall Church , and then all that haue will to vnderstand can easily see their foolery , and are ready to deride them . But this they hide vnder the veile and couer of a Greeke word , and wee , that the truth may be the better seene , are necessarily to discouer , and therefore iust cause had I to say , The Catholike Church is the vniuersall Church , and he is an absurd man to taxe it as a thing absurd . Yet notwithstanding I wish the Reader duly to obserue how that taxation stand 〈…〉 with the other , that the same proposition of mine is captious . For why is it captious ? Marry , because the Catholike Church doth signifi● both the whole body of the Church compacted of all the particular members , in which sense no one p●rticular Church can be called the Catholike Church , because it is not the whole body ; and secondly the Catholike Church doth also designe and note very properly euery particular Church that embraceth the true Christian faith . Where we may wonder that within the compasse of so few lines the mans wits should so extremely faile him . For if the Catholike Church and the vniuersall Church be one and the same thing , as he hath already told vs , and vniuersall be no distinct thing but the very signification of the word Catholike , then how can it be which here he telleth vs , that the Catholike Church signifieth both the whole body of the Church , which is the vniuersall Church , and doth also very properly designe and note euery particular true Christian Church ? If the Catholike Church be no distinct thing from the vniuersall Church , then it cannot properly note or designe euery particular Church ; or if it doe properly designe euery particular Church , then it is distinct from the vniuersall Church . Tell vs , M. Bishop , how these things hang togither ; for if the vniuersall Church be the very signification of the Catholike Church , then we cannot see how a particular Church can bee properly called the Catholike Church , because no particular Church can properly be called the vniuersall Church . As for the exception that here lyeth against vs , that the Fathers in pointing to a particular assembly , doubt not sometimes to vse the name of the Catholike Church , I shewed it before to be no whit preiudiciall to that that wee say , because they minded not in so doing to limit themselues to that particular assembly , but in a particular assembly to demonstrate the vniuersall Church . For to say in any Citty for distinction sake , this is the Catholike Church , what was it else but to say , this is that Church which is vniuersally dispersed through the whole world ? euen as when a man to demonstrate the elements , saith ; This is the aire , this is the earth , pointing to the aire or earth whereat he is present , but therein intending to demonstrate the whole body of the aire or earth , hauing continuation with that whereto he pointeth . For as the Apostle directing his speech to the Church of Ephesus nameth , l l Act. 20. 28. The Church of God which he hath purchased with his owne bloud , and againe , m m 1. Tim. 3. 15. the house of God , which is the Church of the liuing God , the pillar and ground of truth , so speaking of a part as to conioyne it with the whole , euen so & no otherwise was it that in noting any particular Church , it was said , This is the Catholike Church ; the whole Church being totum similare , as I said before , and the whole being subiect to be designed in any part . But M. Bishop here saith , that this was not only because the Church is totum similare , but because each of the said particular Churches hath the same faith , the same Sacraments and order of gouernment . Which is as wisely and discreetly spoken as if he had said that this was not only because the Church in all parts thereof hath the same faith and sacraments , but because the said particular Churches haue all the same faith and Sacraments . For why is the Church said to be totum homogeneum or similare , a body whose parts are all of the same nature , kinde and being , but because in all parts thereof there are the same faith and Sacraments , or to vse the wordes of the Apostle , n n Ephes. 4. 4. One body , one spirit , one hope of calling , one Lord , one faith , one baptisme , one God and Father of all , who is aboue all , and through all , and in vs all . Surely either M. Bishop was sleepy or else his wits were a woolgathering when he put in this exception . Now then it was not said that the word Catholike is not or may not bee directed to any particular , M. Bishop doth therein but meerely calumniate ; but I said and shewed that it is neuer rightly applied any way or to any particular , but with implication of the vniuersall Church . The faith is called Catholike , because it is the faith of the vniuersall Church , propagated and spred by the Apostles ouer the whole world . Particular Churches are called Catholike , and particular persons are called Catholikes , as a man would say , Vniuersalists , for maintayning communion and fellowship of this faith , with the Church of the whole world . And as the name of the aire or the earth , being absolutely vsed importeth that whole element whereof we speake , but yet according to distinction of places we say , The aire of London , the aire of Oxford , the aire of Winchester , &c. without restraining the name of the aire to any one place more then other , and only meaning that part of the aire , that is in such or such a place ; euen so whereas the name of the Catholike Church simply and absolutely vsed importeth the whole vniuersall Church , the same notwithstanding is found to be distinguished by diuersity of places , the Catholike Church of such a place , or the Catholike Church of such a place ; not limiting the name of the Catholike Church to any one place more then other , and in true propriety of speech meaning nothing else but that part of the Catholike Church , that is in this or that place . And therefore I formerly noted and thinke not vnfit here to be repeated , that as Leo wrote himselfe o o Leo. epist. 12. Leo Papa Ecclesiae Catholic● vrbis Romae . Bishop of the Catholike Church of the Citty of Rome , so doth Constantine the Emperor write p p Socrat. hist. l. 1. c. 6. Constantinus Catholic● Alexandrinorum Ecclesiae . to the Catholike Church of Alexandria ; and Austin nameth q q August . cont . Crescon . l. 3. c. 13. Omnis Africana Catholica Ecclesia . the Catholike Church of Africa , and Aurelius writeth himselfe r r Collat. cum Donat. cognit . 1. c. 16. Aurelius Episcopus Ecclesie Catholicae Carthaginensis . Bishop of the Catholike Church of Carthag● , & another Aurelius s s Ibid. cap. 201. Aurelius Episcopus Ecclesiae Catholicae Macomadiensis . Bishop of the Catholike Church of Macomadia , & Nouatus t t Ibid. c. 204. Nouatus Episcopus Ecclesiae Catholicae Sitifi . Bishop of the Catholike Church of Sitif . And so in the fift Councell at Constantinople we reade , u u Conc. Constantinop . 5. act. 1. Supplicatio à Clericis & Monachis Apostolici throni Antiochenae magnae ciuitatis Catholicae Sanctae Ecclesiae Dei . The holy Catholike Church of Antioch : and in the subscriptions of the Councell , Sextilianus Bishop of the Catholike Church of Tunis , and x x Ibid. Act. 8. in subscript . Sext●lianus misericordia Dei Episcopus Ecclesiae Catholicae Tuniensis : Megethius gratia Dei Episcopus Sanctae Dei Catholicae Ecclesiae ciuitatis Heracleae . M●gethius Bishop of the holy Catholike Church of the citty of Heraclea , and Pompeianus Bishop of the holy Catholike Church of the citty of Victoria , and many other in the like sort . Herein then standeth the error , not that the name of the Catholike Church is vsed of a particular Church , but because it is absurdly made a propriety of one particular Church , which was neuer vsed but indifferently of all Churches , and neuer but with implying the signification of the vniuersall Church . Thus I am still constant in one tale ; what I said before I said after , and I say it now againe , and more cause there was for M. Bishop to haue taken another Cocke to himselfe then to put the weather-cocke to me . Now he himselfe confesseth that no one Orthodoxe Church is more Catholike then other , if the word Catholike be taken precisely ; but what it meaneth with him if it be taken precisely , he telleth vs not . If Orthodoxall and Catholike precisely taken be all one with him , he playeth the Donatist as we shall see hereafter , and in that sense amongst many Churches that may bee called orthodoxal and sound , there may yet be some more sound then other . If in true meaning it be taken precisely and properly , then it is taken as in the Creede we professe to beleeue the holy Catholike , that is , the vniuersall Church , and so no particular Church , as hath been said , and as M. Bishop hath confessed , can be called the Catholike Church , M. Bishop therefore vnlesse he be wilfull must also necessarily confesse , that the church of Rome being a particular Church , dealeth absurdly in applying to it selfe the name of the Catholike Church there , where the word Catholike without all doubt is precisely and properly taken . But though speaking precisely no one Church be more Catholike then other , yet we hold , saith M. Bishop , that among all the particular Catholikes the Roman holdeth the greatest priuiledges both of superiority in gouernement and stability in true faith . Hold it , M. Bishop , where you haue it , and blinde men as much as you can in the conceipt of it : but where you haue it not , yee are neuer likely to obtaine it . To vs it is nothing what you hold : what you proue is somewhat ; but you may hold with Copernicus , if you will , that the Sunne standeth still and the earth turneth round , or with Anaxagoras that snow is black . So the Church of Rome , according to that it was , we attribute eminency of place , precedence of honour , authority of estimation and account , but authority of power or superiority of gouernment , we acknowledge none belonging thereto . We reade that other Churches haue yeelded vnto it amity and loue , y y Rom. 16. 16. The Churches of Christ salute you ; but no where doe we reade , All the Churches of Christ are subiect vnto you . And will any man thinke it credible that such priuiledges should appertaine to the Church of Rome , and yet that neither St. Paul nor St. Peter himselfe should make any mention of them ? The one of them wrote to the Church of Rome it selfe , they both wrote to many other Churches , and would they neuer haue remembrance to say any thing of the Lord God the Pope ? Yea St. Iohn did honor to z z Apoc. 1. 4. the seuen Churches of Asia by writing to them , and would he neuer speake of a a Apoc. 17. 9. the seuen hils of Rome , but only as the seate of the whoore of Babylon ? Yea & of those seuen Churches of Asia , it is to be noted which Gregory Bishop of Rome oftentimes deliuereth , & hath Austin therin agreeing with him , that b b Gregor. in Ezech. hom. 15. In ●oannis Apocalypsi septem Ecclesijs scribitur per quas vna Catholica designatur . Praefat. ad exposit. Iob. Per septem Ecclesiar●m numerum vniuersalis Ecclesia designatur . Sic August . Ep. 161. in them is designed or figured the Catholike or vniuersall Church . And to this accordeth Optatus also , when of those Churches hee saith ; c c Optat. Mileuit . lib. 2. Extra septem Ecclesias quicquid foris est alienum est . Whatsoeuer is without the seuen Churches is altene and strange . Now amongst those seuen Churches none had any priuiledge either of superiority in gouernement , or of stability in faith . There is not one Angell or one Church questioned for all , as hauing charge and authority ouer all , but euery Angel , euery Church seuerally censured by it selfe , and according to euery their works either allowed or reproued . Sith then the principall must haue correspondence with the figure , it must likewise be in the vniuersall Church , that no one Church hath priuiledge or superiority aboue all , but euery Church accordingly as it performeth fidelity vnto God , either standeth or falleth ; either is accepted or refused . And the lesse hath the Church of Rome to presume of priuiledge in this behalfe , for that it hath speciall caution giuen to the contrary ; d d Rom. 11. 20. Be not high minded but feare ; f●r if God spared not the naturall branches , take heede lest he also spare not thee . Behold the bountifulnes of God towards thee if thou continue in his bountifulnes , or else thou shalt also be cut off . This notwithstanding M. Bishop telleth vs that that which they hold of those Romish priuiledges , is deduced out of the word of God . But how ? because that Church is the Rocke ( according to the exposit●on of the ancient Fathers ) vpon which the whole Church was built , and against which the gates of hell should neuer preuaile . Here is chalke for cheese ; we were promised a deduction out of the word of God , and ins●eede thereof he bringeth vs an exposition of the ancient Fathers . But M. Bishop , shew you selfe a man of your word ; let vs see that which you say is deduced out of Gods word ; for as for the exposition of the Fathers it auaileth not if it be not deduced out of the word of God . Hee is dumbe and can say no more ; if you will take the Fathers exposition for a deduction out of Gods word , be it so ; otherwise deduce he that can ; for M. Bishop can deduce nothing . Albeit let vs aske him , who be those ancient Fathers that haue expounded the Roman Church to be the Rocke , vpon which the Church is built ? What , M. Bishop , are you afraid to name them ? Though you set not downe their words , yet did not leisure serue you to quote them in the margent of your book that we might take knowledge of them ? It is true that St. Peter is sometimes termed the Rocke vpon which the Church was built , but who euer said that the Rock is the Church of Rome , or that the Church is built vpon the Roman Church ? The truth is that he belieth the Fathers , and fathereth vpon them that which they neuer meant . The Rocke vpon which Christ would build his Church is often by the Fathers expounded to be Christ himselfe , and the true faith & confession of Christ . e e Aug. de verb. Dom. ser● . 13. Super hanc Petram quam confessus es , super hanc petram quam cognouisti , dice● , Tu es Christus , &c. adisicab● Ecclesiam med ; id est , super meipsum fi●ium Dei viui , &c. Vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed , saith Austin , vpon this Rocke which thou hast acknowledged , saying , Thou art Christ the sonne of the liuing God , I will build my Church ; that is , vpon my selfe being the sonné of the liuing God . f f Hilar. de Trinit. lib. 6. Super banc confessionis Petram Ecclesi● aedificati● est , &c Haec fides Ecclesiae fundamentum est ; per hanc fidem infirma aduersus cam sunt portae inferorum : h●c fides regni c●lestis babet ●l●ues , &c. Vpon this Rocke of confession , faith Hilary is the building of the Church . This faith is the foundation of the Church , by this faith the gates of hell preuaile not against it ; this faith hath the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen , &c. Chrysostome saith ; g g Chrysost. in Math. hom. 56. Super hanc Petram , id est , fidem & confessionem . Vpon this Rocke , that is , this faith and confession . Theodoret likewise expoundeth it . h h Theodor. in Cant. l. 2. Petram appellat fidei pietatem , veritatis profession● , &c. the piety of faith , the profession of truth . An●brose saith ; i i Ambros . in Eph● . c. 2. Super hanc petram &c. id est , in hac Catholicae fidei confessione statuam fideles ad vitam . Vpon this Rocke will I build my Church , that is , in this confession of the Catholike faith will I stablish the faithfull vnto life : and againe that those wordes of the Apostle , k k Ibid. In quo omnis structura , &c. Hic sensus est vnde Dominus a●t , super hanc petram , &c. In him ( that is in Christ ) all the building is coupled together , &c. are the sense and meaning of that which the Lord saith , vpon this Rocke will I build my Church . And thus the whole number of the Bishops of Palestina in the Councell of Chalcedon vnderstood it ; l l Epist. Iuuenal . & Episc. Palest in append . Concil. Chalced. Super hanc confessionem roberata est Ecclesia Dei . Vpon this confession the Church of God is confirmed and strengthened . By many other such like expositions of the ancient Fathers it may appeare that Christ I●SVS , euen the true faith of Christ ( for Christ is nothing to vs but by faith ) is the true Rocke whereupon the Church is builded , that the gates of hell may not preuaile against it . And to this St. Iohn accordeth ; m m 1. Iohn 5. 4. 5. This is the victory that ouercommeth the world , 〈◊〉 our faith ; for who is it that ouercommeth the world , but he that beleeueth that Iesus is the sonne of God ? If Christ then be the Rocke by faith in him , how falsly doth M. Bishop deale to foist in the Roman Church in steede of Christ or of the faith of Christ ? Now if Christ properly and truly be the Rocke , then it can be but accidentally and vnproperly that Peter is so called , only in respect of his doctrine and example of faith , expressed and vttered in his confession ; n n Math. 16. 16. Thou art Christ the sonne of the liuing God . As Abraham is o o Esa. 51. 1. the Rocke from whence we are hewed , so is Peter the Rocke whereupon we are built : not for that either of them conferreth any thing to vs , but only for that they stand before vs for patternes of imitation , whereto we are to conforme our selues , that togither with them we may be builded vpon the true Rocke , p p 1. Cor. 3. 11. that foundation beside which no other may be laid , which is Iesus Christ . But in this Peter was not alone , the rest of the Apostles as well as hee q q Iohn 6. 69. beleeuing and knowing that Iesus was Christ the sonne of the liuing God . Yea , and in the place where Peter vttereth that confession , as the question was asked of all the Apostles , Whom say yee that I am ? so we must vnderstand also , and so St. Austin affirmeth that r r Augustin . in Psal. 88. Respondens Petrus pro omnibus , vnus pro vnitate . Peter answered for all , one for vnity , and consequently that all being in the like case , the wordes which Christ returneth though in token of vnity vttered to one , yet in that vnity did appertaine to all . Therefore , by the words there spoken to Peter , Hi●rome concludeth that s s Hieron . in Amos , lib. 3. c. 6. Petra christus est , qui donauit Apostolis sui● vt ipsi quoque Petra vocentur . Tu es Petrus & super hac petram , &c. Christ the Rocke gaue , not to one only Apostle ; but to his Apostles that they also should be called Rocks . And in like sort Origen conceiueth it when he saith ; t t Origen . in Math. cap. 16. Quod si super vnum illum Petrum tantum existimas ●dificari tota● Ecclesiam quid dicturus es de Ioanne filio tonitr●i & Apo●lolor●● vn● quoque ? Quin alioqui num audebimus dicere , quòd aduersus Petrum vnum non pr●ualitur● sin● port● inferor● , aduensus caeleros au●● . Apostolos praeualiturae sin● , ac non potius in omnibus & singuli●●orum fit illud quod dictum est , super 〈◊〉 Petram , &c. Quòd si dictum hoc , Ti●i dabo claues , &c. c●teris quoque commune est , cur non simul omnia , & quae prius dicta s●nt , & quae sequunt●r 〈◊〉 ad Petrum dicta , sunt omnium communia ? If thou thinke that the Church was built vpon Peter only , what wilt thou say of Iohn the sonne of thunder & euery of the Apostles ? shal we dare to say that against Peter only the gates of hell shall not preuaile , and that they shall preuaile against the other Apostles , and not rather that in all & euery of them it is verified which is said , Vpon this rocke will I build my Church ? In a word he reasoneth thus , that because that which is said , I will giue to thee the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen , is common to them all , therefore all the rest both going before and following after as spoken to Peter , is common to them all . And this the Scripture confirmeth in that it saith , that u u Ephes. 2. 20. the houshold of God are builded , not vpon the foundation of Peter only , but vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets , and not St. Peter only but x x Apoc. 21. 14. the Lambs twelue Apostles haue their names written in the twelue foundations of the city of God . Yea , it is yet further to be obserued out of the Fathers , that they make Peter in all this matter y y August . Epist. 165. Petro totius Ecclesia figuram gerenti Dominus ait ; super hanc Petram , &c. to be are the figure as St. Austin saith of the whole Church . z z Idem de verb. Dom. serm. 13. Hoc nomen ei vt Petrus appellaretur à Domino impositum est , & hoc vt ●a figura significaret Ecclesiam . Quia enim Christus Petra , Petrus populus Christianus . The Lord , saith he , gaue him that name to be called Peter , that by that figure he might signifie the Church ; for because Christ is ( Petra ) the Rocke , therefore Peter is the people of Christ . And thus of that which Christ there saith , a a Mat. 16. 19. Whatsoeuer thou shalt bind on earth , shall be bound in heauen , Gregory Bishop of Rome deliuereth that b b Greg. exposit. in 1. Reg. l. 6 c. 3. Quod antiquis ●usquam dicitur , m●dò vniuersali Ecclesiae dicitur , Quodcunque ligaueris , &c. it is spoken to the vniuersall Church . Therefore Origen applieth the name of Peter to euery man that ioyneth with Peter in the confession of the same faith : c c Orig. in Mat. c. 16. Quòd si nos quoque locuti quod dixit Petrus , Tu es Christus , &c. t●nquam non accepta 〈◊〉 reuelatione à carne & sanguine , sed luce cordi nostr● illucescent● à Patre qui in c●lis est , efficimur Petrus & nobis dicetur , quod hunc sermonem sequitur ▪ Tu es Petrus , &c. If we say as Peter said , Thou art Christ the sonne of the liuing God as not receiuing reuelation hereof from flesh and blood , but by light shining into our hearts from the Father which is in heauen , we also are made Peter , and it shall be said to vs which followeth that speech , Thou art Peter , &c. And anone after he affirmeth againe , that d d Ibid. paulò post . Dicta sunt vt doc et spiritus illius ad quemuis qui t●lis factus fuerit , qualis ●rat ille Petrus : siquidem nom●● ducunt à Petra quicunque sunt imitato●es Christi , qui est petra spiritualis , &c. Christi membra cum sint , ab ●● nomen habe●t dicti Christiani , & à Petra Petri. the spirit of the Gospell speaketh those wordes to euery one that is such as that Peter was : for they take their name , saith he , of ( Petra ) the Rocke , whosoeuer are followers of Christ who is the spirituall Rocke ; being called of Christ Christians , and of ( Petra ) the Rocke being called Peters . Hereto St. Ambrose also alludeth , when giuing the reason why Peter was so called , e e Ambros . in Luc. lib. 6. cap. 9. Vt & ipse sit Petrus quòd de petra habeat soliditatem constanti● , fidei firmitatem . Enitere ergò vt & tu petra sis ; itaque non extra te sed intra te petram require , &c. si petra fueris , in Ecclesia eris , quia Ecclesia supra petram est . For that of ( Petra ) the Rocke , he had soundnesse of constancy , and stedfastnesse of faith , hee vseth this exhortation ; Therefore endeauour that thou also maiest be a Rocke , and not without thee but within thee require this rocke ; if thou bee a Rocke , thou shalt be within the Church , because the Church is vpon a Rocke . To conclude , Origen expounding by way of allegory that which is written , as befalling vpon the death of Christ , that the rocks were clouen in sunder , maketh the rocks to be the Prophets ; whom he proueth rightly to be so called . f f Origen . in Math. tract . 35. Probamus scissas tum Petras esse Prophetas , primùm ex eo quòd Christus dicitur Petra spiritualis & rationis est omnes imitatores Christi dici similitèr Petras esse , sicut & lux mundidicuntur ex eo-quòd ipse Dominus ●orum est lux mundi ; deinde etiam ex eo quòd ipse Petrus à Domino Petra est appellatus cum dicitur ei , Tu es Pe●rus , &c. Maximè autem demonstratu● ex co quòd o●nes quibus non pr●ualent portae inferorum , qui opus nominis petr● babe●t in se , id est , Apostoli & Propheta , Petra sunt ipsi , & sunt ●um qui super eis adificantur , &c. First , for that Christ is called the spirituall rocke , and it standeth with reason that all that are followers of Christ should likewise be called Rocks , as they are called the light of the world , because Christ their Lord is the light of the world ; and secondly , for that Peter is by Christ called a Rocke , when it is said , Thou art Peter , and vpon this Rocke , &c. For it is strongly proued thereby , saith he , that all against whom the gates of hell doe not preuaile , who haue in them the worke or effect of the name of Rocke , as namely the Apostles and Prophets , are themselues Rocks , and the foundations of them that are builded vpon them . Thus doe the Fathers turne and wind those words of Christ ; they finde Christ himselfe to be the Rocke , they finde Peter in some sort to be a Rocke , albeit not Peter alone but the rest of the Apostles , yea the Prophets also as well as he ; yea they finde euery faithfull Christian man to be a Rocke by constancy of faith , and by drawing on others through his example of confession to the acknowledgment thereof , but no where doe we finde that euer they tooke the Roman Church to be the Rocke . How vnhonestly then doth M. Bishop abuse his Reader , by setting downe in grosse that parenthesis ( according to the exposition of the ancient Fathers ) when as no such exposition is to bee found amongst the ancient Fathers ? Albeit it is also to bee noted how vnhandsomely this matter hangeth together , and cannot be stained in any sort to serue his turne ; for seeing the Church was when as yet there was no Roman Church , how senslesse a thing is it that the church should be said to be builded vpon the Roman Church ? Surely that against which the gates of h●ll shall not preuaile , is the Church builded vpon the Rocke . If then the Rocke bee the Roman Church , and other Churches in the beginning were builded vpon it , it must needes follow that the gates of hell should neuer haue preuailed against other Churches . But they will not denie but that the gates of hell haue preuailed against other Churches . Therefore the Rocke is not the Roman Church , neither were other Churches in the beginning builded vpon it . If he will haue the meaning to be that the gates of hell shall not preuaile against other Churches , so long as they continue builded vpon the Roman Church , he teacheth vs an exposition against himselfe , that so long as the Roman Church continueth builded vpon the Rocke which is Christ Iesus , so long the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it ; but no assurance haue we that it shall alwaies continue so builded vpon the Rocke . But hee saith further that the Bishop of Rome li●●ally succeedeth vnto S. Peter . Be it so ; and so did Caiaphas succeede lineally to Aaron ; yet did Caiaphas giue sentence against Christ . Their owne law saith ; g g Non sunt omnes filij Sanctorum qui te●ent loca Sanctorum , sed qui exercent opera ●orum . All are not the children of Saints that hold the places of Saints , but they that practise the workes of Saints . Yea but Christ prayed for Peter h h Luke 22. 32. that his faith might not faile . He did so , but I aske then with Austin ; i i Aug. quaest. vet. & noui testam . 75. Pro Petro rogabat , & pro lacobo & Ioanne non r●gabat vt c●teros taceam ? Manifestum est in Petro omnes ●●tin●ri ● r●gans enim pro Petro , pro omnibus r●gass● dignoscitur . Did he pray for Peter , and did he not pray for Iames and Iohn , to say nothing of the rest ? It is manifest that in Peter they are all contained ; and praying for Peter he is knowen to pray for them all . Of them all hee prayeth ; k k Iohn 17. 11. 25. Holy Father keepe them in thy name , I pray thee to keepe them from euill . And what is the meanes whereby they are kept ? Euen the same that St. Peter expresseth when hee saith ; l l 1. Pet. 1. 5. Yee are kept by the power of God through faith vnto saluation . If through faith , then Christ in praying to the Father to kee●● them , is consequently vnderstood to pray that their faith may not faile , through which they are kept . Yea St. Austin maketh it common to all the elect , that m m August . de corrept. & grat . cap. 12. Pro his ergò interpellante Christo ne deficiat fides eorum , sine dubio non deficiet vsque in finem , ac per hoc perseuerabit vsque in finem . Christ prayeth for them that their faith may not falle , and that by vertue of this prayer it doth neuer faile finally , but perseuereth to the end . If then Peter in this prayer haue no priuiledge aboue other , then can nothing in this behalfe be deriued to other by priuiledge from him . Albeit let it be admitted that Christ here meant a singular fauour to Peter , what shall that be to the Pope ? What Art hath M. Bishop whereby to deriue the effect of Christs prayer from Peter to their Popes , from an holy Apostle to a ranke and succession of men , amongst whom there haue beene so many Atheists , Infidels , Idolaters , Heretikes , so many incarnate Diuels and hatefull Monsters of mankind ? This is a matter of great weight , and we require some good authority and proofe for it , that what Christ prayed for the Apostle Peter , the same he hath prayed for the Pope also . But in the proofe of this he faileth wholy , neither can he any way perswade it vnlesse he meete with either simple or well-willing creditors , who will bee content for payment to take counters in steede of gold . And yet I would further aske him what faith it was whereof Christ prayed in the behalfe of Peter that the same might not faile ? Surely by St. Austins application formerly mentioned , it appeareth that it was meant of that faith which is n n T it 1. 1. the faith of Gods elect , that iustifying and sauing faith whereby Peter should rise againe from his fall , and should resist thenceforth the temptations of Satan , and stand stedfast thereby vnto eternall life . But M. Bishop will not deny but that many Popes there haue beene in whom this faith hath failed , or rather in whom it neuer was ; many who haue beene reprobates and castawaies , and their end euerlasting death . Of Sixtus the fift , namely Bellarmine being asked what hee thought after his death , answered as Watson in his Quodlibets reporteth , o o Wats . Quodlibet . Quantum capio , quantum sapio , quantum intelligo , descendit ad infernum . Qui sine poenitentia vi●it , & sine poenitentia moritur , proculdubio descendit ad infernum . So farre as I can conceiue or vnderstand he is gone downe to hell ; he that liueth and dieth without repentance , goeth vndoubtedly to hell . In him therefore and ma●● other such like , the prayer of Christ did not take effect , and therefore certaine it is that it did not appertaine vnto them . If M. Bishop will needs vnderstand it that Christ praied for Peter that he might be free from errour in iudgement of faith ; then not to question whether Peter thenceforth committed any errour in iudgment , it must needs be that the Pope cannot be subiect to errour in that behalfe . But they themselues confesse that the Pope as a priuate man may erre , that hee may be an Heretike and defend heresie ; only in his Consistoriall sentence and Pontificall decree hee cannot erre . Was this then the intent of Christs prayer in the behalfe of Peter , that howsoeuer he might otherwise be an Hypocrite or an Heretike , yet when he should set himselfe down in his chaire to define any matter , hee should bee like Balaam to blesse where hee meaneth to curse , and like Caiaphas to prophesie without vnderstanding what he saith ? I dare appeale to M. Bishop himselfe , if he be sober , that this was not Christs meaning in respect of Peter . If it were not thus meant of Peter , and it can bee no otherwise deriued to the Pope , but as it was meant of Peter , then it must follow that because it can in no other meaning be fitted to the Pope , therefore it can haue no reference to the Pope at all . If hee bee so absurd as to say that it was so meant of Peter , I will not stand to disproue a drunken mans dreame ; I only require proofe of that hee saith . But because hee can deduce nothing out of the word of God , he will make some flourish with some few sentences of the ancient Fathers . And first hee beginneth with Ireneus who going in hand to auouch the true doctrine of faith by the testimony of the Churches , which had receiued the same from the Apostles , for auo●ding tediousnesse bringeth in steede of many other the Church of Rome , being a very great and very ancient Church , and knowen to all men . p p Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Ad hanc Ecclesiam propter potent●rem principalitatem necesse est omnem conuenire Ecclesiam , hoc est , eos qui sunt vndique fideles , in que semper abhis qui sunt vndique conseruata ▪ est ea qua est ab Apostolis Traditi● . To this Church , saith he , because of her more potent principality , it is necessary for euery Church to accord , that is , the faithfull euery where , wherein the Tradition which came from the Apostles hath beene alwaies preserued . Now take this reason added by Ireneus which by M. Bishop is concealed , and it will plainly appeare why it was necessary for other Churches to accorde with the Church of Rome . For this Church for the renowme and famousnesse of the place , being then the seate of the Empire , was the most eminent Church in the world , and therefore continuing still in the doctrine of the Apostles without alteration or change , it was most fit of all other to be propounded as a patterne to other Churches , whereto to conforme themselues ; and with which whosoeuer accordeth not , did thereby swarue from the doctrine of the Apostles . But the case is now altered , because the Church of Rome it selfe is now questioned for swaruing from the Tradition of the Apostles ; which being so , that cannot be said to be necessary now , which was necessary so long as shee continued in that Tradition . And thus sarre we finde only a necessity of consenting then in doctrine with the Church of Rome , but for her superiority in gouernement wee finde nothing . Yes , saith M. Bishop , for Ireneus attributeth to the Church of Rome , a mightier or more potent principality , which what should it import , will he say , but a superiority of Dominion and gouernment ouer all other Churches ? But I answer him , that principality doth not enforce soueraignty and dominion ; for he himselfe is holden for a principall man amongst the Seminary Priests , and yet hee hath no rule or dominion ouer them . Principality importeth specialty and chiefty , and noteth an honour of estimation and account , and thus the Church of Rome though hauing no title of dominion for ruling and gouerning , yet had the honour to bee a chiefe and principall aboue other Churches . Now principality is alwayes potent , and they that are chiefe and eminent aboue others sway much by their example and perswasion , and their very names are very auailable to induce other , whom notwithstanding they haue no authority to command , according to that which Hilary saith , that q q Hilar. Epist. apud August . tom. 7. Plure● sunt in Ecclesia qui authoritate nominum in sententia tenentur aut ad sententiam transferu●tur . in the Church there are many who by authority of names are moued , either to hold still their opinion , or to alter and change the same . Such and no other was the potent principality of the Church of Rome , and thus doth Ireneus in the same place say , that that Church r r Iren. vt supr. scrip . Sit qua est Rom● Ecclesia , potentissimas literas Co●inthijs &c. wrote most potent letters to the Corinthians , namely such as were effectuall and strong to moue them , and the rather for that they came from such a famous and renowmed place . And that M. Bishop may vnderstand that I doe not answere him by a deuice of mine , but according to the truth , he shall find that Cyprian calleth the Church of Rome s s Cypr. lib. 1. Epist. 3. Ad Petri Cathedram & Ecclesiam principalem , &c. the principall Church , and yet in the same place he denieth t t Ibid. Nauigare audent ad Petri Cathedram , &c. Oportet eos quibus praesum●s non circumcursare , &c. Nisi paucis d●speratis & ●erditis minor esse videtur authoritas Episcoporum in Africa constitutorl● . &c. the authority of the Bishops of Africa to be inferiour to the Bishop of Rome . And thus the African Councell acknowledgeth the Church of Rome to be u u Conc. Afric . cap. 6. Primae sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princ●ps Sacerdotum , aut summus Sacerdos aut aliquid huiusmodi , sed tantùm primae sedis Episcopus . the first or principall Sea , and the Bishop thereof they terme the Bishop of the first or principall Sea , and yet they denied to the Bishops of Rome to haue any authority ouer them . Yea when Zozimus , Bonifacius , and Celestmus , challenged the same by a forged Canon of the Nicene Councell , those x x Ibid. c. 101. Quia hic in nullo c●di●● Gr●c● ea po●●imus inuenir● , ex Orientalibus Ecclesijs vbi perhibetur eadem decreta posse etiam authentica reperiri , magis nobis desideramus adferri . African Bishops for the disprouing thereof sent to the Patriarches of Antioch , Alexandria , and Constantinople for authenticall copies of the said Councell , wherein they found no such matter ; and y y Ibid. c. 105. Vt aliqui tanquam à tuae sanctitatis latere mittantur , nulla inuenimus patrum Synodo constitutum . Quod ex parte Nicem Concilij transmisistis in Concilijs verioribus tale aliquid non potuimus reper●●e . Executores Cle●icos vestros quibusque petentibus nolite mittere , &c. thereupon wrote to Celestinus that he should forbeare to send his Legates to entermeddle in their matters , and z z Ibid. c. 92. Non prouocent nisi ad Africana Concilia , vel ad primates Prouinciarium s●●rum : ad transmarina autem qui putauerit appellandum , à nullo intra Africam in communionem suscipiatur . forbad all appeales saue to their owne Councels , excommunicating them that presumed to appeale to Rome , and in this recusancy of subiection they continued afterwards for the space of an hundred yeares vntill Eulal●●s the Bishop of Carthage , if it be true which is reported of him and not coyned at Rome , betrayed the liberty of that Church , and submitted the same to Boniface the second , who doubted not most wickedly to say of those African Bishops , of whom the learned Father St. Austin was one , that a a Bonifac. 2. Epist. ad Eulal . tom ▪ 2. Concil. Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesi● olim Episcopus cum collegis suis inf●igante Diabolo superbire tēporib● praedecessorum Bonifacij atque Celestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit . by the instigation of the Diuell they had then begunne proudly to demeane themselues against the Church of Rome . As for that potent principality of the Roman Church , and necessity of according therewith , which M. Bishop intendeth , Polycarpus knew it b b Euseb. hist. l. 5. c. 23. Neque enim Anicet● suadere Polycarp● poterat ne seruaret , &c. quae semper seruauerat . not , when he would not be perswaded by Anicetus Bishop of Rome to keepe the feast of Easter according to the manner of the Church of Rome . Neither did c c Ibid. cap. 22. Episcopis per Asiam qui morem ipsis ab antiquo traditum retinendum esse affirmabant , pr●erat Polycrates . Polycrates the Bishop of Ephesus with the rest of the Churches of Asia , acknowledge any such when they withstood Victor Bishop of Rome in the same cause , and neglected his excommunication ; the same Polycrates alleaging for himselfe , that d d Ibid. Ego qui sanctam Scripturam volui ac reuolui , non t●rbabor illis quae terrendi gratia obijciuntur . Et●nim maior●s mei Deo magis quàm hominibus obedien●●● esse dixerunt . hauing read the holy Scripture ouer and ouer , he would not be troubled with those things that were threatned to him , because his ancestors had taught him rather to obey God then men . Neither did e e Concil. Carthag . apud Cyprian . Per totum . Cyprian and his African Bishops conceiue any such when in their Councell they determined the point of the Baptisme of Heretikes , professedly against the knowen iudgement of the Bishop and Church of Rome ; whether truly or falsly that skilleth not , only hereby it appeareth that they had not learned nor did beleeue M. Bishops necessity of according with the Church of Rome . Neither did the Easterne Churches imagine any such principality in the church of Rome , when as Leo hauing affirmed it to be f f Leo. Epist. 62. Ad octauum Calend. Maiar . Paschalem obseruantiam perducere nimis insolens & aperta transgressio est . a strange and manifest trespasse or transgression to bring Easter day to the eighth of the Calends of May , he was faine notwithstanding to yeeld g g Idem Epist. 93. Studio vnitatis & pacis malui Orientalium definitioni acquiescere , quàm in tantae festiuitatis obseruantia dissidere . to them therein because they would not yeeld to him . Neither did Hierome beleeue any such who writing purposely in derogation of the Church of Rome saith ; h h Hieron . epist. ad Euagr. Si authoritas quaritur , vrbis maior est vrbe , &c. Quid mihi pr●fers vnius vrbis consuetudin●● ? quid paucitatem de q●a ortum est supercilium in leges Ecclesi● vindicas ? If authority be required , the whole world is greater then one City : what doest thou bring me the custome of one City ? why doest thou maintayne a paucity or fewnesse , whence hath growen proud vsurping vpon the lawes of the Church ? Neither did Ambrose admit it , who for defence of a ceremony vsed in his Church of Millan , saith , i i Ambros . de Sacram. lib. 3. cap. 1. Cupio in omnibus sequi Romanam Ecclesiam , sed tamen & nos homines sensum habemus . I desire in all things to follow the Church of Rome , but wee also are men that haue vnderstanding , and therefore what is more rightly obserued otherwhere , wee iustly obserue the same . Neither was it acknowledged by the sixe hundred and thirty Bishops of the Councell of Chalcedon , who affirming k k Chalcedon . Concil. Act. 15. Can. 28. Antiquae Roma throno quòd vrbs illa imperaret iure patres priuilegia tribuere . ●t eadem consideration● mo●i centum quinquaginta Dei ama●tissimi Episcopi Sanct●ssimo noua Rom● thro●o ●qualia priuilegia tribuere , rectè iudicantes vrbem quae & Imperio & Senatu honorata sit , &c. etiam in rebus Ecclesiasticis non secus ac illam extoll● , &c. the priuiledges of the Church of Rome , to haue beene giuen to it by the Fathers before , f●r that that City was the seate of the Empire , did for the same consideration giue to the Church of Constantinople equall priuiledges with the Church of Rome , when the City of Constantinople was honoured with the Empire and Senate as well as the City of Rome , which in the l l Synod. 6. in Trullo , Can. 36. Decernimus vt thronus Constantinopolitanus aequalia priuilegia cum antiqu● Romae throno obti●eat . sixt Synode holden at Constantinople , in Trullo by almost three hundred Bishops more was againe approued and confirmed . Now then by the continuall practise of the Church it appeareth that the wordes of Ireneus cannot be truly applied to approue any superiority of gouernement to appertaine to the Church of Rome . As little doe the wordes of Cyprian auaile to challenge thereto certaine continuance and stability in true faith , who exagitating the tumultuous and disorderly courses of certaine lewd and schismaticall persons who being censured by the Bishops of Africa sought to patronage themselues vnder the fauor of the Bishop of Rome , vpbraideth them , that m m Cyprian . lib. 1. Epist. 3. Nec cogi●●re ●os esse Romanos quorum fides Apostolo praedicante laudata est , ad quos perfidia hab●re non possit accessum . they considered not that the Romans were men whose faith by the testimony of the Apostle was commended , to whom perfidiousnesse can or may haue no accesse . Where M. Bishop adding in his translation of the wordes , or falshood in matters of faith , to make the wordes serue his purpose , thrusteth them quite from the purpose of him that wrote them . It made nothing for Cyprians purpose , that falshood in matters of faith could haue no accesse to the Romans ; the thing that hee aimeth at , is , that in matters of iurisdiction , perfidious and trecherous persons iustly punished for their euill demeanours , and thereupon comming to Rome with lies and tales should finde no admittance or harbour there . M. Bishop though hee giue to the Bishop of Rome a priuiledge not to erre in deciding matters of faith , yet will not denie but that hee may erre in cases and proceedings of iurisdiction , and in examining and iudging matters of fact , may giue countenance to lewde and vngracious men , as hee did to the Iesuites against the Priests . It beeing then impertinent here to Cyprians occasion , to affirme the Church of Rome to bee free from errour in question of faith , either wee must make him speake idlely , or else wee must construe his wordes the other way , that those lewde and euill disposed persons should finde no fauour or entertainement there . Which hee saith , cannot bee : not as to affirme an impossibility thereof , but as to signifie how farre hee presumed of their integrity in this behalfe , and that they would make good the Apostles commendation of their faith , one fruit whereof should bee to resist the courses of such tumultuous disturbers of Ecclesiasticall order and peace , and to yeeld no accesse or ●are to their calumnious and false suggestions . Gregory Nazianzene well noteth that in diuers meanings it may bee said of a thing that it cannot bee ▪ n n Greg. Nazianz . Orat. 5. Significata horum ( posse vel non posse ) complura sunt . Interdum dicuntur de virium desectu & certo huius tempore & respect● alicuius &c. Interdum vsurpamus de eo quod vt plurimùm accidit , &c. Nonnunquam vt rationi non consentaneum , &c. Nonnunquam vt quod voluntas non admittat , &c. Praeterea quod nat●rae quidem respectu sieri nequit , praestari aut●m à Deo potest , si is velit , &c. Praeter haec quod prorsus vel fieri vel contingere nequit , &c. First , to note want of strength at a certayne time and in some respect , as to say of a child that hee cannot wrastle , which notwithstanding beeing growen hee can . Secondly , it signifieth that such a thing commonly , or for the most part cannot bee ; as when it is said , A Citty that is set vpon a hill cannot bee hidde , which notwithstanding by interposing somewhat may bee hidden and not seene . Thirdly , that wee say cannot bee , which is not conuenient or agreeable to reason , as when it is said , The children of the Bride-chamber , so long as the Bridegroome is with them , cannot fast , meaning that so long it is not reasonable or fitting so to doe . Fourthly it is said cannot bee , which the will admitteth not or liketh not to doe , as when the Euangelist saith of our Sauiour ; He could doe no great miracles there because of their vnbeliefe , wherein is a relation to the former meaning , the will not admitting that which is not fitting or conuenient to be done . Fiftly , we say that can not be which by naturall course cannot be , though by the power of God it may be done . And lastly , we say so of that which in no sort can be , and is wholly and altogether vnpossible . It was farre from Cyprians meaning that it was a thing wholly vnpossible for the Romans to admit the hearing of such persons , ( for if he had so thought , what needed he so much to labour Cornelius the Bishop in that behalfe ? ) but he would note it as a thing vnfitting to that testimony , which the Apostle had giuen of them , and which being so vniust he assured himselfe they would by no meanes yeeld vnto . Euen in the same manner as Gregory saith , that o o Greg. Mor. l. 33. c. 22. Iniqui si ap●rtè mal● essent , à bonis omninò recipi non possent men openly euill cannot be receiued or entertained of them that be good ; and as Marcellinus saith of a Bishop , that p p Collat. cum Donat. 1. c. 62. Falsi crimen nec obijcere condecet sacerdotem , nec committere potuisse credendum est . it beseemeth him not to obiect falshood to another , nor is it to be beleeued that he could commit the same himselfe ; and as Leo saith , q q Leo. Epist. 52. Priuilegia Ecclesiarum Sanctorum patrum Canonibus instituta & Nicena Synodi fixa decretis nulla possunt improbitate conuell● , nulla no●itate mutari . The priuiledges of Churches established by the Canons of the Fathers , and by the decrees of the Nicene Councell , cannot by any sinister practise be impeached , on by any nouelty changed : and as we commonly say out of the law , Id tantùm possumus , quod iure possumus : r r Aug. cont. Gaudent . lib. 2. c. 22. Quod non potest iustè , non potest iustus . We can doe that only which we can lawfully doe , or as St. Austin saith to the same effect ; The iust man cannot doe what he cannot iustly doe ; agreeable to the wordes of the Apostle , s s 2. Cor. 13. 8. Wee can doe nothing against the truth but for the truth . Where , as in infinite places more , wee may not vnderstand a meere deniall of possibility , but a signification of improbability , of vndecency or breach of duty , if the thing bee done that is spoken of , euen as St. Austin expoundeth the wordes of the Angel to Lot ; t t Genes. 19. 22. I can doe nothing till thou be come thither ; u u Aug. cont. Gaudent . lib. 2. c. 22. Non posse se dixit , quod sine dubi● poterat per potentiam , sed non poterat per iustitiam . He saith he could not , which doubtlesse by power he could , but by iustice he could not doe . Now if M. Bishop be pecuishly wilfull against common sense to vnderstand perfidiousnesse of falshood or errour in matters of faith , yet that Cyprian can be vnderstood no otherwise but according to the same meaning it is infallibly proued , for that in a matter of faith he with his Councell of African Bishops , as I said before , determineth contrary to the Church of Rome : and of Stephanus the Bishop of Rome saith expresly , that hee x x Cyprian . ad Pompei . Haereticorum causam contra Christianos & contra Ecclesiam Dei ass●rere conatur &c. Imperitè atque improuidè scripsit , &c. Quae ista obstinatio , quaeu● pr●sumptio humanam traditionem diuina dispositioni anteponere , &c. vnitatem & veritati de diuina lege venientem non tenens , h●res●m contra Ecclesiam vindicat . endeauoured to mainteine the cause of Heretikes against Christians and against the Church of God , that he wrote ignorantly and vnwarily , that obstinately and presumptuously he preferred the Tradition of man before the ordinance of God , that not holding the vnity and truth that proceeded from the law of God , he defended heresie against the Church . Wherein although it be true that Cyprian did erre , yet we cannot doubt but that vpon aduertisement giuen him by the Bishop of Rome , he would haue reformed his errour and submitted himselfe to the iudgement of that Church , if he had knowen that priuiledge of immunity from errour , which M. Bishop now by his testimony challengeth thereunto . In a word to shew the weaknesse of the foundation whereupon M. Bishop buildeth all this fable , Cyprian where he saith as the other Fathers sometimes doe , y y Cypr. Epist. ad Iubaian . & alt. ad Quirin . Petrus super quem Dominus aedis●cauit Ecclesiam ▪ suam . that Christ builded his Church vpon Peter , in the very same place disputeth against the sentence of the Bishop of Rome , thereby plainly declaring that from Peter to the Bishop of Rome there is by his iudgement no such priuiledge deriued as these men so infinitely babble of . Now though his proofes hitherto be vaine , yet those that follow are more vaine , beside that hee is faine to report them falsly to giue them that little colour that they seeme to haue . Ambrose , saith he , taketh it to be all one to say the Catholike and the Roman Church . Forsooth Ambrose reporteth that his brother Satyrus hauing escaped the danger of shipwracke , and being come to land was destrous in token of thanks-giuing to receiue the Sacrament . So it was that the heresie or schisme of the Luciferians at that time , preuailed in those parts , and hee was carefull by no meanes to communicate with them . Therefore , z z Ambros . de obitu Fratris . Percontatus ex ●o est vtru●●am cum Episcop●s Catholicis , hoc est , cum Romana Ecclesia con●eniret . he questioned with the Bishop whom hee had sent for vnto him whether hee accorded with the Catholike Bishops , that is , with the Roman Church . Hee held it not enough to name Catholike Bishops , because Heretikes and Schismatikes doe take vpon them to be called Catholikes , but because he knew the Church of Rome then retayned the Catholike faith , he would take knowledge of them to be Catholike Bishops , by this that they ioyned themselues in fellowship of faith with the Roman Church . And is not here , thinke you , a goodly reason , They were then Catholike Bishops that did communicate with the Church of Rome ; therefore it is all one now to say the Catholike and to say the Roman Church ? The Church of Rome as the most famous and chiefe Church was most fit to bee named in this case , but otherwise it may euen as well be said , They were Catholike Bishops that communicated with the Church of Millan where Ambrose was Bishop ; therefore to say the Church of Millan , is all one as to say the Catholike Church . As little discretion is there in his next allegation out of Hierome , who mentioning the words of Ruffinus , concerning some workes of Origen by him translated , The Latin Reader shall finde nothing in them different from our faith , demandeth thus , a a Hieron . Apolog. aduers . Ruffin . lib. 1. Fide suam quam vocat ? Eamnè qua Romana pollet Ecclesia , an illam qu● Origenis voluminibus contin●tur ? si Romanam responde●it , ergo Cathol●ci sumus qui nihil de Origenis errore transtulimus , &c. Which calleth hee his faith ? that which the Church of Rome professeth , or that which is contained in the bookes of Origen ? If he answere , the Roman faith , then are we Catholikes , who haue translated nothing of the errour of Origen . For what is there here said of the Roman Church , but what might likewise bee sa●d of any other Church professing the true faith ? The argument followeth , because the Roman Church did then maintayne the true Catholike faith ; so should it follow of the rest , If he professe the faith of the Church of Constantinople , of Antioch , of Alexandria , yea of the poore Church of Eugubium , then is he a Catholike , because al these did then professe the Catholike faith . But what is this to M. Bishops purpose to proue in the Church of Rome a priuiledge of continuance and stability in the same true Catholike faith ; to proue that the Roman faith should bee alwaies the certayne and vndoubted patterne of the true Catholike faith ? In which conclusion his other Authours also doe all faile him , who though it be graunted him that they did , as he saith , proue themselues then to be Catholikes and their Churches Catholike , by declaring themselues to communicate with the Church of Rome , and their aduersaries to bee Heretikes because they did not so , for that the Church of Rome was then famously knowen to haue continued the same from the beginning in the points of faith then impugned by the Heretikes ; yet very idlely and childishly are they alleaged to proue that which M. Bishop intendeth , that it should alwayes thenceforth continue so . But indeede hee racketh his Authours and wrongeth them , neither doe they say that which hee would haue them taken to say . Tertullian appealeth to other Churches as well as to the Church of Rome , and referreth his Reader to the most famous of them accordingly as they are nearest at hand ; b b Tertul. de praescript . Percurre Ecclesia● Apostolicas apud quas ipse adhuc Cathedrae Apostolorum suis locis praesidentur , &c. Proxima est tibi Achaiai habes Corinthum . Si non longè es a Macedonia , habes Philippos , habes Thessalonicenses . Si potes in Asiam tender● , habes Ephesum . Si autem Ital●ae adiaces , habes Romanam . Runne through the Apostolike Churches in which there are Bishops still sitting in the seates of the Apostles in their places . Is Achaia next vnto thee ? thou hast Corinthus . If thou be not farre from Macedonia , thou hast Philippos and the Thessalonians . If thou canst goe into Asia , thou hast Ephesus . If thou border vpon Italie , thou hast the Church of Rome . What is there here for M. Bishops turne ? c c Epiph. haeres. 27. Epiphanius setteth downe a Catalogue of the Bishops of Rome , but saith not a word to that effect as M. Bishop citeth him . Optatus approueth his part to be Catholike , not simply by communicating with the Church of Rome ; but for that tog●ther with the Church of Rome , d d Optat. lib. 2. Si●icius hodie noster est socius ; cum quo nobis totus orbis commercio formatarum in vna communionis societate concordant . they communicated with th●●hurch of the whole world . Yea in the same booke hee attributeth as much in this behalfe to the seuen Churches of Asia as to the Church of Rome , & therby as strongly reproueth the Donatists . e e Ibid. Cum quibus Ecclesijs nullum communionis probamini habere cons●rti● , &c. Extra septem Ecclesias quicquid soris est alienum est . You are proued to haue no fellowship of communion with the seuen Churches . Whatsoeuer is without the seuen Churches is stranger to the Church . Austin setteth downe the succession of the Bishops of Rome , and vpbraideth the Donatists , that f f Aug. Epist. 165. In hoc ordine successionis nullus Donatista Episcopi● inuenitur . no Donatist was found amongst them ; but as well doth he obiect to them , that whereas g g Ibid. Quile gunt in codicibus sanctis Ecclesias quibus Apostoli scripserunt & nullum in eis habent Episcopum . Quid autem peruersius & insanius quàm lectoribus easdem Epistolas legentibus dicere , pax tecum , & ab earum Ecclesiarum pace separare quibus ipsa Epistolae scriplae sunt . they read the Epistles of the Apostles , they diuided themselues from the peace and fellowship of those Churches , to which the Apostles wrote the same Epistles . So then in all these Authors which he alleageth he doth but meerely abuse his reader , which is the cause why he thus set downe their names without their wordes , for that he presumed that only alleaging their names , men would imagine that vndoubtedly they said somewhat for him , whereas if he had set downe their wordes , euery man might see that they said nothing . Yea , but it is greatly to be noted , saith M. Bishop , that there is no generall Councell of sound authority wherein the Christian truth hath beene expounded and determined , but is confirmed by the Bishop of Rome . Well ; and it is as greatly to be noted that the sentence of no Bishop of Rome was anciently holden sufficient for the deciding of a question of faith , except the same were confirmed by a generall Councell . Therefore doth Leo Bishop of Rome mention h h Leo epist. 61. Apostolicae sedis Epistola vniuersali sancta Synodi assens● firmata . Et Epist. 70. Scripta mea adiecta vniuersalis Synodi confirmatione , &c. his Epistle against the heresie of Eutyches , confirmed by the vniuersall assent of the sacred Synode , and his writings hauing the confirmation of the generall Councell added thereto . And what his authority was in the Councell it may be conceiued by that he wrote to the Councell of Ephesus , i i Idem Epist. 14. Misi qui vice mea sancto conuentui vestrae fraternitatis intersint , & communi vobiscum sententia qua Domino sint placitura constituant . I haue sent my deputies to be present with you in your assembly , and by sentence in common to decree those things which may be pleasing to the Lord ; where wee see that he challengeth no more but a voice in common with the rest of the Bishops there . And that Councels held it not an●●atter of necessity to haue the confirmation of the Bishop of Rome , it is manifest both by the African Councell excluding his authority from amongst them , as hath beene before shewed , and by the Councell of ᵏ Chalcedon , which notwithstanding the opposition of the l Concil. Chalced. Act. 16. Contradictio nostra his gestis inh●reat , &c. J●dices dixerunt , Quod interlocuti sumus , tota Synodu● approbauit . Legates of the Bishop of Rome and l l Leo Epist. 51. 52. his owne reclayming thereto , yet decreed to the Church of Constantinople equality of priuiledges with the Church of Rome , saue only that the Bishop of Rome had precedence and priority of place , as before also is declared . As for M. Bishops other note it is a vaine and fond presumption , that all heresies sprung vp since the Apostles daies haue opposed themselues against the Roman Sea , and haue beene by it finally ouerthrowne . The Church of Rome hath had nothing singular in this behalfe ; Yea many heresies there haue beene that haue more bent themselues against other Churches then against the Church of Rome , neither hath the Church of Rome done so much in the confounding of them as other Churches haue done . But yet he bringeth Austin , affirming for him that that chaire obtained the top of authority heretikes in vaine barking round about it . Where he dealeth very vnhonestly in falsifying the wordes of Austin who in that whole booke by him cited , neuer once nameth the Roman Church or chaire , nor saith any thing that may be auouched to haue any speciall reference or respect thereto . Of the Catholike or vniuersall Church so apparantly to bee discerned from all hereticall combinations , St. Austin there saith ; m m Aug. de vtilit . credendi . c. 17. Dubitabimus nos eius Ecclesiae condere gremio , quae vsque ad confession●m generis humani ab Apostolica sede per successio successio▪nes Episcoporum frustra hareticis circumlairantibus , &c. culm●n authoritatis obtinuit . Shall we doubt to repose our selues in the bosome of that Church which euen by the confession of mankinde from the Apostles sitting ( or time when the Apostles sate ) by successions of Bishops hath obtained a height of authority , Heretikes in vaine barking round about , &c. In the whole processe of that booke from the beginning to this place which is almost the very end , he speaketh generally of the Catholike Church without relation to any particular Church , and therefore vnlikely it is that his wordes here should beare any speciall application to the Church of Rome . M. Bishop will say that I mistranslate the wordes ab Apostolica sede , and that Apostolica sedes is there meant the Apostolike Sea , that is , the Roman Church . But he must giue vs leaue to vnderstand the meaning of St. Austins wordes by St. Austin himselfe , who in this cause so often signifieth by that phrase of speech , the time wherein the Apostles themselues sate , that is , wherein they liued and occupied the roomes of teaching and gouerning the Church . Thus he saith in another place , n n Aug. cont. Faust . Manich. lib. 11. cap. 2. Vides in hac re quid Ecclesiae Catholicae valeat authoritas quae ab ipsis fundatissimis sedibus Apostolorum vsque ad hodiernum diem succedentium sibimet Episcoporum & lot populorum consensione firmatur . Thou seest how much the authority of the Catholike Church herein auaileth , which from the most surely founded seates of the Apostles vntill this day ( that is , from the time that the seates of the Apostles were most surely founded vntill this day ) by ranke of Bishops succeeding one another , and by the consent of so many peoples is confirmed . And againe , o o Ibid. lib. 28. cap. 2. Vniuersa Ecclesia ab Apostolicis sedibus vsque ad praesentes Episcopos certa successione perducta . The vniuersall Church , saith he , which is deriued by certaine succession from the seates of the Apostles ( that is , from the time that the Apostles sate ) vnto the Bishops that now are . And in another place , p p Ibid. lib. 33. cap. 9. Eam sequamini que ab ipsius praesentiae Christi tempo●ibus per dispensationes Apostolorum & 〈◊〉 ab corum ●edibus successiones Episcoporum vsque ad haec tempora peruenit . Follow that authority which hath come from the time of the presence of Christ himselfe , by the ministery of the Apostles , and by other successions of Bishops from their seates ( from the time wherein they sate ) vntill this time . Which when hee will in more proper wordes expresse ▪ hee speaketh thus : q q Ibid. lib 28. cap. 4. Ecclesia quae ab ipsius Matthaei temporibus vsque ad hoc tempus certa successionum scrie declaratur . The Church which from the very time of Matthew vntill this time by certaine ranke of successions is declared . r r Ibid. lib. 32. cap. 19. Euangelica authoritas ab Apostolorum temporibus vsque ad nostra tempora per successiones certissimas commendata . The authority of the Gospell commended by most certaine successions from the time of the Apostles vntill our times . And in another place : s s Contra Aduers . leg . & Prophet . lib. 1. cap. 20. Ecclesia quae ab illorum ( Apostolorum ) temporibus per Episcoporum successiones certissimas vsque ad nostra & deinceps tempora perseuerat . The Church which from the times of the Apostles by most certaine successions of Bishops continueth to our times and so forward . Now then sith all these speeches , as by conference appeareth , serue to expresse only one and the same thing , it is plaine that St. Austin when hee said ab Apostolica sede , meant nothing else but from the sitting , that is , from the age and time of the Apostles . Of the Apostles , I say , though he speake in the singular number , because hee nameth from thence not a succession as speaking of one , but successions as res●rting himselfe to those many seates wherein Bishops had succeeded from the time of the Apostles . And though wee doe vnderstand it of one Apostle St. Peter , as elsewhere he saith , t t Cont. Epist. fundam . cap. 4. Tenet ab ipsa ede Petri vsque ad praesentem Episcop●tum successio Sacerdotum . The succession of Bishops from the very seate of Peter ( from the very time when Peter sate ) vntill the Bishopricke that now is , holdeth me in the Catholike Church ; yet doth there nothing hereby follow more to the Church of Rome then to the Church of Antioch , where Peter sate as well as he did at Rome , and where there had beene Bishops succeeding him vntill that time . In a word let M. Bishop take those wordes as hee will , yet is there nothing therein to be seene concerning the Church of Rome , but only that as the principall Church , and specially 〈◊〉 these Westerne parts , it serued him most conueniently for instance of the succession which hee pleaded ; but as for the height or toppe of authority there spoken of , it belongeth to the Catholike or Vniuersall Church , discountenancing all partiall and schismaticall combinations , and meere impudency is it by those or any other wordes of Austin to challenge to the Church of Rome an authority or superiority of gouernement ouer other Churches , when as wee see that both Austin and the rest of the Bishops of Africa did with one consent vtterly disclaime the same . Hitherto , therefore wee see no cause to attribute to the Church of Rome any such priuiledges as M. Bishop pretendeth , and the lesse opinion haue wee that any such there are for that hee bringeth no shew of proofe , but onely by wresting and falsifying the Authours whom hee alleageth in that behalfe .