A short dialogue, wherein is proved, that no man can be saved without good vvorkes Corderoy, Jeremy, b. 1562 or 3. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A19331 of text S115604 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 5756). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 134 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 69 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A19331 STC 5756 ESTC S115604 99850822 99850822 16052 2240913419

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 Early English books online text creation partnership. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 2, no. A19331) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 16052) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English books, 1475-1640 ; 1512:09) A short dialogue, wherein is proved, that no man can be saved without good vvorkes Corderoy, Jeremy, b. 1562 or 3. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A19331 of text S115604 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 5756). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread [24], 110, [2] p. Printed by Ioseph Barnes, and are to be sold in Paules Church-yard at the signe of the Crowne, by Simon Waterson [in London], At Oxford : 1604. Dedication signed: Ieremy Corderoy. Book seller's location from STC. Last leaf blank?. Reproduction of the original in the Cambridge University Library. eng Good works (Theology) -- Early works to 1800. Justification -- Early works to 1800. eebo A short dialogue, wherein is proved, that no man can be saved without good vvorkes. Edit. 2. With some additions. Corderoy, Jeremy, 1604 138 23808 120 0 0 0 0 0 50.4 D The rate of 50.4 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2013-06 Assigned for keying and markup 2013-07 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2013-09 Sampled and proofread 2013-09 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2014-03 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

A SHORT DIALOGVE , WHEREIN is proved , that no man can be saved without good workes .

Edit. 2. With some Additions .

Be not deceaved , God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth , that shall he reape ; he that soweth to the flesh , shall reape corruption , but he that soweth to the spirite , shall reape life everlasting . Galat. 6.7.8 .

AT OXFORD , Printed by Ioseph Barnes , and are ●o be sold in Paules Church-yard at the signe of the Crowne , by Simon Waterson . 1604.

To the Right Worshipfull Sir ROBERT VERNON Knight , all health and prosperitie .

Although ( Right Worshipfull ) nowe long distance of place and time , hath severed vs , yet the exceeding greate kindnes you alwaies bore towards mee , whilest you lived in Oxforde , hath wrote so deep an impression in my minde , that neither discontinuance of time , nor distance of place , hath any thing abated my wonted dutifull affection towards you . Presuming of the like affection in you towardes mee , ( knowing your kind disposition ) I am imboldned to offer , & dedicate this my little book vnto you : the which being conscious of his own imperfections , craues your patronage , and favour ; which if it may obtaine , it fears not to come abroad into the view of men , & if you will vouchsafe to reade & like of it , it sea●es not the censure of others , both which it hopes the rather to obtaine for my sake . It is not long , nor tedious , & ( I hope ) it is profitable , and therefore it hopes the better acceptance , the which if it mighte obtaine , you shall make mee not repent mine endevours . Thus my humble duty remembred I commit you to the tuition of the Almightie .

Yours for ever IEREMY CORDEROY .
To the Christian Reader .

AS to the body of man ( Curteous Reader ) all kinds of diseases , to all kinds of ages are not incident , but some diseases are more peculiar to vs when wee are children , some proper vnto vs when we are young men , some more incident when wee are olde : so in the Church of God , al kind of evils breake not forth in one age , but some are more peculiar to some age , than vnto others ; as both histories of former times , and daily experience doe manifest vnto vs ; the disposition whereof come not by chance , but by the determinate counsaile of the Lord , who in his iust iudgment disposeth of these things , as it shal make for his glorie , and the good of his church . That these things come to passe by the appointment of God , it is manifest by many places of the Scripture , wherein god sheweth that he doth send these calamities for the exercise of his church , & also foretelleth the time when they shal come ; in the ●3 . of Deuteronomie , verse , 3. the Lord saith that he will sende false Prophets amongst vs , to trie vs , whether we loue him with al our harts & with al our souls . ●y this means mens harts shal be manifested , whether they loue God or no ; they that belong vnto God , wil not giue eare vnto these false Prophets , but wil bee directed by the word of God ; according to that saying of our Saviour , my sheepe heare my voice , & follow me , Ioh. 10. they will not followe a straunger , but flee from him , for they knowe not the voice of a stranger . He foresheweth when such & such evils shal come , as it appeareth in divers places of the Prophets in the olde Testament ; and in the new , the revelation of Iohn aboundeth in predictions of things to come . Now as God in his goodnes & mercy towards vs vouchsafeth to forewarne vs of these temptations that shal come on vs , & when , that therefore wee may bee the better armed against such events ; so it is our duty , to take notice hereof , and accordingly to addresse our selues to withstand such temptations as shal come on vs ; but especiallie to obserue what evils are more proper to the time wherein we our selues liue , as most pertinent vnto vs ; not to speake of matters of olde time , but of latter times , as most concerning vs . The Apostles , inspired by the holy Ghost , haue intimated vnto vs of this age , what temptations shal assault vs , who haue divided the time from the incarnation of Christ , vntil his second comming to iudgment , into two several times ; in which , two several temptations shal assaulte the church of God : the former of these two times , they terme , the latter daies ; the ●ther , the last daies . ●n the former , that is the latter daies , shal come errours in doctrine : in the last times shal come corruption of manners : not that the later daies shal be free from corruption of life and vngodly behaviour , or the last daies shal bee free from errour of doctrine : but in the latter daies errour of doctrine , in the last daies lewdnes of life , as two predominant ill humors shal abound , & therfore according to the diuersitye of these two times , it is our duty to bend our selues more against the one then the other . In the time of errour , wee must most of al endevour to confute error ; in the times of vngodlines in life , wee must contend against vngodlines in conversation . Now because this time present wherin we liue is the last time , wherein corruption of manners shal most abound , according to the prediction of the Apostle , the which wee see with our eies to be too true : I haue chosen rather to speake of the necessitie of good works to saluation , as most befitting this time , then against error in doctrine ( though I haue not altogither omitted to speak some thing against it ) seeing that now most men offende in lewdnesse of life , more then in errour of doctrine . If any doubt whether this time wherein we liue , be the latter or last times or no , let him but conferre the prophecie of these two times , with the euent which hath fallen out , & he may easily be resolved . The Apostle Paul speaking of the latter daies , wherin error in doctrine should abound saith : 1. Tim. 4.1 now the spirite speaketh evidently , that in the latter daies some shal depart from the faith , and shall giue heede to spirite● of errour , and doctrines of divels , which speake lies through hypocrisie , and haue their consciences burned with an hot yron . That this latter time began in the Apostles time , and holdeth vntil the revealing of Antichrist , the same Apostle sheweth in an other place , where he saith , the mysterie of iniquitie doth alreadie worke , 2 Thess 2. Chrysost. 2. The● . 2. hom 4. Ambros 2. Thes. 2. Hierom in Dan. 7 & quest ●1 ad Algas . Tertull de resurrec . car . Lactan l 7 Aug. lib 20 cap 19 Zancheus in 2 , Thes 2 Osiander in 2 Thess 2 & epit hist eccl●s. centur 7. lib. 1 & lequent . Plat. de Bo●if 3. Func Cron. de Phoca & Bon. 3. onely hee which nowe with-holdeth shal let , vntil he be taken away . He which hindred Antichrists authority then , was the greate power of the Emperour of Rome , who would hinder the power of the man of sinne , vntill he , that is , the Emperour should be taken awaie ; as histories , the event , and expositours doe testifie vnto vs ; when the power of the Emperour should bee Eclipsed , then the man of sinne should exalte himselfe aboue all that is called God , or is worshipped ; that hee shoulde sit in the temple of God , shewing himselfe that he is God , which in the Popes of Rome hath already beene verified , exalting themselues aboue God , taking vnto themselues the authoritie of God , making lawes to be observed vpon no lesse daunger of eternal damnation ; then the laws of God : dispensing against the plaine worde of God , abrogating the commaundemente of God , to establish their owne . This the man of sinne hath finished , according as it hath been foretolde of him . But his pride shal bee abated , and hee shal come to an ebb , as the same Apostle foretelleth ; 2. Thess 2.8 Esay 11.4 . saving that the Lo●d will consume him with the spirit of his mouth , that is , by the preaching of his gospel . By this means we see the kingdom of Antichrist now brought to a very lowe ebbe , and his madnesse made manifest to al men , 2 Thess. 2. ●i . 12. saving in some fewe , to whom God hath sent strong delusions , that they may bee damned , because they loued not the trueth . Antichrist being reuealed and made manifest , nowe followeth the last time , this time present wherein we nowe liue ; of which the Apostle Paul speaketh . 2. Tim. 3.1 . Saying , this know also , that in the last daies shall come perilous times , for men shall bee lovers of their owne selues , covetous , boasters , prowd , cursed speakers , disobedient to parents , vnthankefull , vnholy , without naturall affection , truce-breakers , false accusers , intemperate , fier●e , despisers of them that are good , traitours , heady , high-minded , lovers of pleasure more then God , having a shewe of godlynesse , but haue denyed the force of it . The Epist. of Iude consisteth , 2. Pet. , almost whollie , of the description of these ill men , of whom also Peter forewarneth vs ; the which if you reade , you shal haue the manners and behauiour of the men of this age presented as liuely vnto you , as if you shuld see them al in a glasse at one vi●w . Now ( as I haue saide before ) corruption in manners being the proper disease to this age , in reason we should bende our chiefest strength against this disease , especiallye since the reason whye the Apostles foreshewe these thinges is , Iude 3. that wee should earnestly contende against it , and that in this miserable and perilous time , we should haue compassion on some , pulling them out of the fire , vers. 22. in putting a difference , as the Apostle Iude saith . He compares this time , to a citie set on fire , which when it happeneth , wee catch at that which is dearest in our sighte , and saue it from burning . We must put a difference according to the difference of men : for , some there are , who sinne of infirmitie and weaknes , & are , as the Apostle saith overtaken w●th sinne ; Gal. 6 1. these we ought , to reclaime with the spirit of mildnes & gentlenes . Others there are who are more stubborne and wilful ; these wee must rebuke more sharpely . A third kinde there is , who , 2. Tim. 4.2 so they may enioy their pleasurs , care neither for God nor man ; who say vnto vs , depart from vs , Iob. 21.14.15 . we desire not the knowledge of the Lorde ; who is the Almighty that wee shoulde serue him , and what profite shoulde wee haue if wee should pray vnto him ? Psalm. 50.17 . Ier. 2.24 . these kinde of men hate to bee reformed , these are like those wilde Asses vsed to the wildernesse , that wil not be turned , and who so seeketh to turne them , shal but wearie himselfe , Mat. 7.6 . Exod. 10.29 . 2. King . 3.14 . but not prevaile : let these pleasantlie descende to hell , for who can turne them ; wee may not giue that which is holie to dogges , nor cast pearles to swine , if wee doe they wil treade them vnder their feete , & returne and al to rent vs . Wherefore if I may bee so boulde to advise those , to whom the care of soules is committed , I would advise them to follow the steppes of our ancient Fathers , who alwaies bent their studies against that of their time , wherin they lived , which was most hurtful , and the abuses which then most abounded . Since the time of the Apostles , vntil within these fewe yeares , errour in doctrine most abounded , therefore we see the godly men of that age bent their whole studies to confute errours but nowe ( God be thanked ) this disease beeing almost cured , and as greate a disease , as the former , affecting the Church of God , in my opinion , if wee devide the worde aright and minister a word in due season , we ought especially to vse our endevour to reclaime men from vngodly behaviour , and not wholy , in these daies , spend our studies and labours against errour in doctrine ; notwithstanding ( gentle Reader ) I speake not definitiuely herein , but my slender opinion ; if I speake vpon weake groundes , I will not be stubborne , but am content to yeelde to men more iudicious . Farewell .

Yours in the Lord , JEREMY CORDEROY .
A SHORT DIALOGVE between a Gallant , a Scholler of Oxforde , and a Church-Papist ; wherin is proved that good works are necessary to salvation . Ridentem dicere verum , quid vetat ? praesertim in hac iocosa aetate , cum nil nisi ioci placent . GAllant .

You are well overtaken sir .

Scholler .

You are welcome sir .

Gall.

I pray sir how farre ride you this waie .

Scholl .

To Oxford .

Gall.

And so do I : if you would ride a litle faster , I would be glad of your company .

Schol.

For companye sake , I will alter my pace .

Gal.

It seemes you are a scholler by your attire .

Scho.

So I am .

Gal

Of what profession .

Scho.

I study divinity .

Gall.

Then I doubt we shall not passe our way so pleasantly as I hoped I should .

Scho.

Why think you so ?

Gall.

Because I see few , or none that study it , but are given much to melancholy , and sadnes , scarce fit for any company . I haue an olde acquaintance in Oxforde , who before he gaue himself to this study , was very pleasant , but since he hath vndertaken this study , hee is cleane altered , scarce the same man : now no good-fellowship with him , but he is alwaies reading the Bible , or musing , still silent , vnlesse you vrge him to speake .

Scho.

That is a good chaunge . For in that he is alwaies reading the Bible , it is a good signe he is carefull to vnderstand the word of God , which is the meanes of our salvation : ● Rom. 1. verse 16. 1. Cor 1.8 in that he is continually musing , it is likely that he doth ruminate , & meditate on that he hath read , to apply it to his vse , & conforme his life according to it , without which ruminating & meditation we make small vse of our reading , but are like vnto conduits which receiue water , but keepe it not . This was prefigured vnto vs in the olde lawe of Moses , Lev. 11.2 . Deut. 14.4 where no beast was clean , but such as chewed the cud . Which kind of beastes , when they haue received sufficient food , they sit and recal it againe , & newly run over it , & fitly prepare it for their stomackes , that it may so bee converted into their substance . In like manner , hee who will make a right vse of reading of the Scriptures , must after the reading thereof ponder , meditate , and ruminate on it , and make vse therof for his own edification . Lastly wheras you say he is very silent , it is most likely , he hath a care hee offende not in his tongue . For most commonly , multiloquium est stultiloquium , in much talke there is sin , seeing wee must giue an account of every b b Mat. 12.36 37. idle word ,

Gall.

But what neede all this ado ? I hope , I shal be saved as well as he , though I pine not my selfe away in melancholy reading of books , I confesse I haue but little skil in divinity , for my humour is not that way , yet I hope I haue enough to bee saved ; for I know Christ dyed for me , & I beleeue to be saued by him only , & not by my workes , I stande not on them , Vide Bucanum de praedestinat . quest. 50. nor put any confidence in them .

Scholl

Why ? thinke you a bare beliefe , without a careful endevor to liue according to the wil of God will be sufficient for you to salvation ?

Gall.

O sir , I perceiue you are of the old stamp , you trust to be saved by your good works and holynes . I know that to be Papistical & erroneous , & therfore I rely wholie on faith in Christ , and not on my workes .

Scholl .

It is true , I am of the old stamp , of that stamp which the old Patriarks , Prophets , and all the Elect of God haue bin : al which were zealous of good works , & studious to approue their calling therby ; Heb. 11. Tit. 2. yet am I far from that blasphemous conceit of the Papists , which you falsely call old , but truely erroneous , for so it is ; & no lesse erroneous is your solitary faith without good workes . This opinion of bare faith hath bin condemned , for an heresie long si●ce , in the heretike Eunomius , who thought that a man might be saved if he had faith , how lewdly so ever he lived , as S. Augustine reporteth in his 54. heresie ad Quodvultdeum , and S. Augustine wrote his book de correctione & gratia , Aug. tom. 4 li. octoginta quest c. 76. against certain that were of this errour in his time and the Apostle Iames tearmeth this kinde of faith , Iam. 2.19 . the faith of Divels , and therefore it cannot saue .

Gall.

I haue heard it I know not how often , that wee are freely saved by faith without good works , and therefore , I confesse , I haue had the lesse regard of them .

Schol.

You haue mistaken the matter , you haue heard often that we are iustified freely by faith without good works , but not saved without good works .

Gal.

That is al one .

Sch

Nay there is great difference betweene iustification , and salvation : to iustification only faith without workes sufficeth , Rom. 3.28 Gal. 2 16. Ps 15. & 24 Fox de christo gratis iustifi lib. 2 pag 380. Mat. 5.20 . August . in Psal. 30. & despiritu & lit . ca. 9. Rom. 8.29 Luk. 1.74 . Heb. 12 14 Reve 20.6 but to salvation is more required : as first , predestination ; then an effectual vocation by the preaching of the worde externally , & an internal operation of the holy Ghost ; Then iustification by faith only ; afterwards a measure of sanctification , which consisteth of godlines of life & good workes ; & then salvation ; so that without sanctification & good works you cannot be saved .

Gall.

It is a hard saying , and I hope it is not so , if it be true , I must confesse , Vide Fox● de Christa gratis iustificante , li. 2 fol 359. & 360. I haue hitherto reposed my only hope of salvation on faith without works , and I am so deeply setled in this opinion that I shall hardly ever alter my opinion .

Scho.

Yet if you haue manifest proofe heereof in the scripture , you wil alter your opinion & your life .

Gall.

My opinion I shall , for I hold the scripture the only rule of truth . But for my life , I feare I must craue pardon a while , til yeares grow on me . But I pray sir ( since we are entred into this matter , & we haue no other matter to passe the time ) shew howe you prooue this point . Heb. 1● . Exod. 40.32 . Mat. ● Calu. instit . li. 3. cap. 14 sect. 1. & 21 cap. 15 sect 8. & ca. 16 sect. 1. 2. Pet. 1 . 1●

Sch●ll .

This matter is proved not only by the godly conversation of all the Patriarkes , Prophets , and holy men of God , but also prefigured in the old law of Moses , and set down in plaine tearmes in many places of the new Testament , as Except your righteousnes exceeds the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharises , yee cannot enter into the kingdome of God . Now although the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharisies was farre shorte of theirs , who may be capable of the kingdom of heaven , yet even they were very carefull , not to kil , not to wrong , not to sweare falsely or forsweare , not to commit adultery , in a word , not to breake any of the ten commandements in external action ; notwithstanding they were careful & precize herein , yet our Savior plainly pronounceth ; That excepte our righteousnesse exceede the rghteousnesse of the Scribes and Pharisies w●e cannot enter into the kingdome of God .

Gall.

If to abstaine from killing , swearing , adulterie , and the rest which you haue reckoned vp , be not sufficient , God helpe me , & a great many moe besides me ; what would you haue vs to do ?

Scho.

Our Savior in that place sheweth , that we ought not only to abstain from the breach of these commaundements in externall action , but also abstaine from evill thoughtes : as namely we should not lust after a woman ; Mat. 5.28 . for hee that looketh on a woman to lust after her , hath alreadye committed adulterie in his hearte : This lust the Scribes and Pharisies thought no breach of the law . Again , he requireth 〈◊〉 we should not sweare at all , in our ordinary talke , but our affirmations should be yea yea , & our negations , nay nay : The Scribes & Pharisies thought they offended not , in taking the name of the Lord in vaine in ordinary talke , so they swore not falsely . Againe the Scribes and Pharisies thought they might take an eie for an eie , and a tooth for a tooth ; & that they might revenge a wrong to the vtmost , so that their revenge were not greater then the wrong received , but our Savior requireth that wee should not resist evil : if any man take away our coat we must giue him our cloake also : if any man strike vs on the one cheek , we must turne to him the other also .

Gall.

And do you indeed think in conscience you are bound to doe this ?

Scholl .

Yes without al doubt .

Gall.

Then , by your good favour , I meane to ease you of your cloake and purse ; but first I will proue your patience . I must take my fist from your right eare , then you wil turne me the other . Why how now ? wil ye resist ?

Scholl .

Why not sit ?

Gal.

O , I did but proue whether you would stand to your doctrin or no : I meant you no harme , but you see that you will speake a great deale more then you wil do .

Scho.

Why say you so ▪

Gal.

Because cven in your last words , you saide you were bound in conscience , not to resist evill , & that if any wil take your cloake away , you must giue him your coate also ; and that if one str●ke you on one cheeke , you must turne him also the other : yet you see , you obserue none of all this .

Scholl .

Sir you much mistake the matter , if you thinke that these speeches : resist not evill : Aug. Epict. 5. ad Marcellinum . Peter Martyr locis comm. classe . 4 ca. 15. sect. 7 ▪ 8. if any take your cloake awaie , giue him your coate also : and , if any strike you on the one cheeke , turne also the other : it you think ( I say ) these speeches are meant ab●olutely , and alwaies to be done . For the only drift of our Sav●or in these speeches is , to confute the false opinion of the Scribes and Pharisies , who thought it no offence to do wrong for wrong , so that their requitall were not greater then the wrong done them ; he tels them that they may not resist evil , that is maliciously hurt again , if they bee wronged . As for to resist evill ( but not with evil , that is , revenge with malice and wronge ) it hath beene vsed allwaies of the godly , Exod. 2.12 . opposing themselues against the wicked practises of the vngodly ; yea our Saviour Christ not only reproved those that sould do●es in the temple , Mark 11.15 but also overthrew the tables of the mony-changers , and whipt them out of the temple ; Paule withstoode Peter to the face , Gal 2.11.14 when he went wrong . Againe wee are not alwaies bounde to giue our cloake to him that will take our coate away ; Calvin . institut . lib. 4. cap. 20. sect. 20. for this is spoken respectiuely and not absolutely , that is , rather yeelde our cloak vnto him , then maliciously withstand him ; else why hath God appointed vs iudges and magistrates , if we may not vse their help ? Act. 22.1 . & 24.12 . & 25.10 whenas Paul was falsly accused he withstood his enemies , & vsed the help of magistrates , appealing to Cesar ; which no doubt hee woulde not haue done , if it had bin vnlawfull . Lastly , if one strike you on the one cheek turne also the other , these wordes must be vnderstood as those words of our Saviour Christ , where hee saieth , Luk. 14 26. Mat 10 37 if any hate not father and mother , he is not worthy of me , where his meaning is not that anye shoulde hate his Father and Mother , or not loue & obey them . But he meaneth , if it shall come to this rump , that they must either forsake father & mother , or CHRIST , their loue to their favior ought to be so great , that they should hate father or mother , rather then forsake Christ . So likewise , when we haue received a blow on the one cheeke , we must turne also the other , if it shal make for the glory of God so to do ; or rather bee buffeted on both sides then to malice the party wronging vs . Nowe , that we are not bound simply to turne the other side , if any giue vs a blowe on the cheeke , except it wil make for the glory of God , it is most manifest by our Savior christ himselfe , who is the best interpreter of himselfe , & the best expounder of his own meaning who when as hee was striken , turned not the other side vnto him that smote him , but reproved him for so doing : ●oh. 18.23 . if I haue evil spoken , saith he beare witnesse of the evill : but if I haue well spoken , why smitest thou me ? where you may see that when he was stroken he did not offer himselfe to be stroken againe ; so that you may see , these wordes , if one strike you on the one cheek turn also the other to him , are not alwaies to be observed , but vpon some circumstaunces . So likewise when Paul was s●itten , he doth not offer himselfe to be smitten again but reprooveth the high Priest for commanding him to be smitten , saying , god wil smite thee , &c. Act 23.3 Hence may you see that I break not those commandementes in denying you my purse & cloak , & in refusing to bee beaten at your hands , sith it maks not for the glory of God for you either to rob me for beat me . And I may without brech of charity deny you both .

Gall.

If these places are so to be vnderstood , I must confesse your deedes haue not swarved from your doctrine . But I meant a little to be pleasant with you . Now pray sit proceede in that which you were about to say , concerning the necessitie of works to salvation . If your doctrine be true , I must take an other course , or els I shal never come to heaven .

Scho.

For the proofe of it , harken and then iudge . Besides the place which I haue already named concerning the righteousnes of the Scribes and Pharisies , which was an external observation of the law , whose righteousnesse farre exceeded the righteousnes , of many in these our daies , who notwithstanding vainely perswade themselues they shal be saved ( I terme it a vain perswasion , because , if an externall observation of the law , such as was the Pharisies , be not sufficient , much lesse manifest breakers of the law , and such as continue therein , can bee saved ) besides this place ( I say ) there are many , & most plaine to prooue the necessity of good-workes to salvation : as that of the Apostle , Heb. 12.14 followe peace with all men , & holynes , without the which no man shall see God ; without a peaceable & holy conversation , then , no man can be saved . Iohn pronounceth those only blessed , Rev. 20.6.13 . who haue their part in the first resurrection for ( saith he ) on such the seconde death hath no power . If they onely are blessed , who haue their parte in the first resurrection , which is holynes of life , then without good workes no man can bee saved , & further in the same chapter hee saieth ( having the day of iudgment represented to him in a vision ) that he saw that every one was iudged , according to his works , that is , such as had done good , to everlasting life , & such as had done evill to everlasting fire : as it is also in the Athanasian Creede : & our Saviour Christes words are most plaine in this point . Mat 7.21 . L●ge Chrysostomum in haec verba tom. 2. Not everie one that saieth vnto me , Lord , Lord shal enter into the kingdome of heaven , but hee that doeth the will of my fa her , he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven . And further in the same chapter he doth more illustrat the point by the example of 2. builders : He that heareth my words and doth them , I will liken him to a wise man which builded his house on a rocke , and when the raine fell , and the fluddes came , & the wind● blew , & beate vpon that house , it fell not , for it was grounded on a rocke . But who so heareth my words , & doth them not shall be likened to a foolish man which buildeth his house on the sandes , so that when the raine , winde , and flowds came and beate on it , it fell . Here he signifieth that they which endevour to doe the will of God shall never fall , no not in the day of iudgment : Psal. 1.5 . & contrarywise the wicked shall not be able to stand in iudgement .

Gall.

I graunt , if a man will seeke to get to heaven by his workes he must doe this , but mee thinkes the Scripture teacheth an easier way , namely by saith onely , & sure I am fullie perswaded , that if I come vnto God with a stronge faith , he will not reiect mee .

Scholl .

your strong faith will proue a strong presumption , if it bee destitute of good workes , Calv in c. 18. ver. 17. Ezech. Mat. 22. which point our Saviour Christ doth make most manifest by the parable of a Kinge who bidde certaine guestes to the wedding , but when some made excuses , some set light by it when they were invited , he sent the second time & some evil intreated his servants : Wherefore the King being worth destroied those murtherers , & sent the third time , & commanded his servant to goe into the high waies , and as many as they coulde finde , bid them to the m●●iage ; then his servants went , & brought all they could finde both good and badde ; so the wedding was furnished with guestes , then the King .

Gall.

Nay , nay , goe no further , you haue said enough , and as much as I can wish for you say that the good & badde are received , and I am sure , if I bee not one of the good , I shall bee one of the badde : beleeue mee , it i● a very comfortable place .

Scho.

Nay but deceaue not your selfe , such catching at pieces of the Scripture is the cause of many errours ; you offend against principal rules of interpreting the Scripture : we may not beleeue that the scripture teacheth any thing contrarie to the nature of God , Ang de doctrina Christ . lib. 3. cap. 3. and if any place seeme to vs so to doe , we vnderstand it not aright . Now wheras out of this place you ( misconstruing it ) woulde conclude , that which is contrary to the nature of GOD , namely that God receiveth the wicked into his kingdom , God alloweth not of the wicked , Psa. 11.5 . nay hee hateth them , & hath prepared everlasting tormentes for them . God being good , yea goodnesse it selfe , cannot but abhorre that which is badde . Besides this , in interpreting the scripture , you must take heede , that you doe not make one place contrary to an other , as in this your interpretation you do , and that against plaine & evident places ; as that in the 25.41 . of Matthew , & in the 21.27 . of the Revelation . In the former wherof is plainly shewed that the wicked and mercilesse shal go into everlasting fier : In the latter , that no vncleane thing shall enter into the kingdom of heaven . Againe , in interpreting the Scripture , you may not single out words or sentences , without having consideration of the principall drifte whither they tende , but consider that which went before with that which follows after : Aug lib 3. cap 3. which precept if you had observed in the place which I was about to speak of , you would haue made a contrary conclusion to that , that you haue made , Suff●r mee therefore to alleadge the whole place , and then if you will , reply .

Gall.

I pray then goe on .

Schol.

The guestes being come , the King came to see his guest , & saw a man not having a wedding garment ( this wedding garment , by the consent of al writers , is charity consisting of good works ) the king commandes his servants to take him , and binde him hande and foote , and cast him into vtter darknes , where shall be w●●●ing and gnashing of teeth ▪ this man came to the Kings Sonnes ▪ wedding and tooke himselfe to be a bidden guest , supplied the roume of a guest , as many now a daies supply a ro●me in the church of Christ & be●re the name of Christians , as hee the name of a guest , vntill the time ofte● , them being found without a wedding garment , must looke for the same doome . This point is manifested also by the sentence of the fi●e foolish virgins , who came also to the wedding , but were shut out because they had no oile in their lamp● : all therfore that come , are not received , come they never so confidently , except they be qualified with some measure of regeneration , Ioh 3. Mat. 19.28 without which no man can enter into the kingdome of God . And lest you might imagine that this is done to some few for example sake , to cause the rest to be more carefull of their life and conversation , Rev. 3.17 . and so you notwithstanding may escape this severity , marke further what our Saviour saith in another place ; Many shall come vnto me in that day , & say , Lord , Mat. 7.21 . Lorde , haue not wee pr●phecied in thy name ; and by thy name cast out devils ? and by thy name done many , and greate works ? then wil I professe to them ( saith our Saviour ) I never knew you , depart from me ye that worke iniquity . Mark well these wordes , many shall come , yea , plead an interest in Christ , because in his name they had prophesied , cast out devils , and done great & many workes : Yet for al the they are cast of , because they were wicked men . A man may haue the the spirite of prophesying , power to cast out Devils by the helpe of God , power to do great and manie miracles , and yet be a castaway , if he haue not the spirit of regeneration , wherby only he loueth God , and delighteth in doing his will . wherfore flatter not your self with bare solitary faith destitut of good works , which kind of faith is not a saving faith .

Gall.

But I am sure I haue heard it often read , & preached too , that if a man haue faith , it is sufficient .

Schol.

It is true , beeing truely vnderstood . So likewise it is said , Ioh. 17.3 . this is life euerlasting to know thee the only living God , & whom thou hast sent Iesus Christ ; if you doe not expound this place by conferring it with other places of the Scripture , you may as well conclude that a bare knowledge of Christ , or God is sufficient to eternall life , without any faith in him , or loue towards him . Then may you conclude , that they who prophecied in Christes name , cast out devils , and did great & many works in his name , shal be saved , though wicked men : contrary to the expresse words of our Saviour ; for they al knew Christ . Nay then the very devils are more sure to be saved then any man , for their knowledge of god is more perfect then the knowledge of men , Mark . 5.7 . yet the scripture is most plain that they shal not be saved . But confer this place with others , & you shall proue that this is not generally to bee vnderstoode of everie knowledge , but truely of one kinde of knowledge , Ioh. 1.24 . which is specified by Iohn , where hee saith , if any saith I know God , and keep not his commandements , he is a lyar , and the truth is not in him , but he that keepeth his word , in him is the loue of God indeed , and hereby we know that we are in him . So then , that knowledge which hath the loue of God ioyned with it , which loue is manifested by a desire & a delight of doing the wil of God , is the saving knowledge before mentioned , and no other knowledge : which saving knowledge cannot possibly be in the wicked or in the devil . For they only know God , but loue him not , which is manifested in that they by loue seeke not to doe his will and please him . The like general speech you haue of our Saviour where he saieth , Mat. 7.7 . to him that knocketh it shall be opened , and to him that asketh it shall bee given ; which wordes if you simplie vnderstand without exception , many absurdities wil follow . The fiue foolish virgins knocked , yet were they not admitted : they that cast our devils in Christs name , and did great and many workes thereby , asked , but obtained not ; wherefore wee must goe further , & seeke the true meaning of these words , by conference of them with other places of the Scripture . Our Saviour saith , Mat. 6.14.15 . if you forgiue other men their trespasses your heavenly father will forgiue you your trespasses , but if you forgiue not other men , no more will your heavenly father forgiue you your trespasses , and David saith , if I applie my heart to wickednes , Ps. 65.18 . the Lord will not heare my praier , and Salomon saith , the praier of the wicked is an abhomination to the Lord , Prov. 15.8 & the Lord refuseth the praiers of the Iews , because their hands were full of blood , because they were oppresore of the poore , but wash you , Esay . 1.16 . saith the Lord , learne to do well , seeke iudgment , releeue the oppressed , iudge the fatherlesse , & defraud not the widdowes , then if thy sins were as crimsō , they shal be as whit as snow , David saith , Psal. 33.18 19. the eies of the Lorde are over those that feare him , and vpon them that trust in his mercy , to deliuer their soules from death . And Peter saith , the eies of the Lorde are over the righteous , and his eares are open to their praiers ; ● . Pet. 3. i2 by these places now may you see , how those wordes are to be vnderstood , to everie one that knocketh it shall bee opened , and to everie one that asketh it shall be geven , that is , not every one without exception for you see other places tell you that the praier of the wicked is an abhomination vnto the Lord : Ioh. 15.7 . but of them ●hat loue and feare the Lord , and endevour to keep his commandements , if they knock or aske , it shal be opened & graunted , to every one without exception . So in like manner , in your assertion , namely that if a man hath faith it is sufficient , if you absolutely vnderstand any faith , many absurdities will follow ▪ Iam. 2.19 . for there is a faith of Divels which if it were sufficient to salvation , then the divils may bee saved . For they acknowledge Christ to be the sonne of God . There is an historical faith , Mark . 5.7 . & a faith of doing miracles which the wicked haue ; yet it cannot saue them ; according to that of the Apostle , if I had all faith , 1. Cor. 10.2 . so that I could remoue mountaines , and had not loue , it were nothing . It must bee then such a faith which hath with it the loue of God & our brethren , it must be such a faith which worketh by charity , Gal. 5.6 . Ephe. 6.6 . a working faith ( I saie ) and not an idle faith , much lesse such a faith as is spotted with vngodlines . Not any faith then is sufficient , but such a faith which is accompanied with good workes and newnesse of life ,

Gall.

Well be it that good workes be required to salvation , yet say that I liue vngodly all the dayes of my life , vntill ● see I must departe this world , I thinke I haue hearde some wordes in the Scripture , which import thus much , that it is not then too late to repent . I cannot repeat the wordes themselues , but such words there are , the which ( to tell you the truth ) haue made me take a little the more liberty in my delights .

Scholl .

I thinke you meane these words , at what time soever a sinner doth repent him of his iniquitie I will put out all the remembrance of his sinnes from me , Ezec. cap. 33.11 . saith the Lord ,

Gal.

Yes the same , then you see it is sufficient for a man to salvation , even when he dieth to repent .

Scho.

If these words haue given you an occasion of greater liberty in your delights , that is , in plaine tearmes , an occasion of sinning more freely , you are one of whom the Apostle prophesied long since , saving that in the latter times shall come certaine men , Iude 4. 1. Pet. 1. 2. Tim. 3.4 . who will turne the grace of God into wantonnes ; yea , who will loue their pleasures more than God , Luk. 1.74 . Ephes. 1.4 1. Pet. 2.24 . and 2. Peter . 1.5 . you make a cleane contrary vse of the promises of the goodnes & patience of the Lorde towardes sinners , to that wherefore they are promised . For , saith the Apostle , the goo●nes , long suffering , and patience of God , Ro. 2.6.7 . is shewed to lead men to repentance & amendment of life , the which who so abuseth , hea●eth vp wrath to himselfe against the day of iudgement , who will reward every man according to his workes , 2. Tim. 2 . 2● and ( expounding himselfe ) saith , that is , to them who by continuance , ( marke well what he saith , even as if he plainely foresaw some would vainely flatter themselues , that it wil be sufficient to repente , as they falsely call it , at the last cast and breath ) therefore he addeth to them that by continuance in well doing seek● life everlasting . But lest you should fl●●ter your self in your sins & promise vnto your selfe salvation without warrant of the worde of God , first knowe this , that these words , At what time soever , are not in any texte of the bible , yet are they agreeable to the worde of God beeing rightly vnderstoode ; that is , whensoever a sinner forsasaketh his vngodlinesse , and doth that which is right and good , craving pardon of God for his former ill life , God will not impute his former sinnes vnto him , but will pardon & remit his sinnes for Christs merites . But in that sence that you take them , neither the words themselues , At what time soever , can be found in any place of the scripture , neither are they consonant to any place of the scripture , namely , that though a man liue in vngodlinesse all the dayes of his life , and at the very iump when he departeth this life , then bee sorry for that which is past , hee may be saved , notwithstanding he hath passed his whole life in vngodlynesse . I say such a man so living & so doing , Aug. tom 10 lib. 50. homil. cap. 41. Chrisost. hom. 19 in 4 genesis . Calvin Zanch. Heming . et omnes saniores interprat . in versum . 13. 2. Thessa . 2 et Eph. 2.10 can haue no warrant in all the scripture , that hee shall be saved . The repentance which the scripture requireth , is not a bare conceived greefe for that which is past , peruse you the words of the Prophet Ezech. 33. whence they are taken , and you shal manifestly see , that there must be a doing of that which is good & right . and an eschewing of that which is ill , which cannot be done in an instaunte or moment . The wicked may repent and bee sorry for that which is past , yet shall they not be forgiven . For as the wicked may haue some kinde of faith , 1. King . 2● Mat. 27.3 . Maca 2 9. Calvin . instit lib. 3. cap. 3 sect. 3. & 5. & sequent . and yet bee damned , so may they haue some kinde of repentance and yet bee damned . But that you may more clearely see you mistake the meaning of these words , taking it as if it were generall to all sortes of sinners , Fox de Christo gratis iustificante lib. 2. fol. 323. whenas in deed it is meant but to one kinde of sinners : if you will ●ightly vnderstand the meaning of these words , you must consider that there are two sortes of sinners : The one kinde are presumptuous sinners , in whom sinne raigneth , who not only delight and continue in sin , Psal. 11.2 Ioh 9.31 . Rom 1.31 1. Tim. 1.9 1 : Pet. 4 18 but also giue them selues wholy over as slaues vnto sin : The other kinde of sinners are such as sin of infirmity , who when they are overtaken with sinne , are grieved at it , & sory for it , they continue not in it , Rom. 7. 2. Ioh. 3.9 . they hate it , they allow not of it , they endevour to resist it . Nowe when it is said that at what time soever a sinner doth repent him of his sinnes , Lege Bullingerum in 3. Apocal. God will forgiue him , it is to be vnderstoode only of that ki●de of sinners , who sin of infirmitie and weakenesse , and not of presumptuous sinners , for these kinde of sinners he doth giue over to a reprobate sence . Rom. 1.24 Ephes. 4. 2. Thess. 2.11 . Heb. 6.4 . That all kinde of sinners cannot claime the benefite of this promise , it is manifest by diverse places of the Scripture . It is impossible ( saith the author to the Hebrews ) that they which were once lightened , and haue tasted of the heavenly guift , & were made partakers of the holy Ghost , if they fal away should be received again by repentance . And againe he saith , Heb. 10.26 If we sinne willinglie after that we haue received the knowledge of the truth , there remaines no more sacrifice for sinnes . Which two places , though most men take it for the sin against the holy Ghost , whom I gain ▪ say not , yet they proue thus much , that some cannot haue the benefite of repentance , & therfore that speech At what time soever a sinner doth repente him , &c. is not generall without exception . Yet know further , that not only those who sin against the holy Ghost , but also they who sin of presumption , & they in whom sin raigneth , cannot challendge the benefit of this promise . Consider what the Lorde himselfe saith , He that blesseth himselfe when he heareth the curse against such as transgresse against the law , saying , I shal haue peace , though I walk after the stubbornnesse of mine own hart , I will not be mercifull to such an one ( saieth the Lorde ) but all the curses written in the covenant shal come vpon him ; Deu. 29.19 againe in another place the Lord saith vnto sinners of this kind namely against the daughters of Israel . Hos. 4.14 . When your daughters are harlots I wil not visit them , signifying thereby , that hee will not giue them the meanes of repentaunce , whereby they may be saved , Prov. 1.28 & God by the mouth of Salomon saieth of these kinde of sinners , they shall cal vpon me , but I will not answer , they shal seek me early , but they shal not finde me , because they hated knowledge , and did not chuse my feare , they woulde none of my counsailes , but despised my corrections . Thus dealt the Lord with his chosen city Ierusalem , Mat. 23.37 . which refusing the meanes , and neglecting the times of her salvation , was reiected of the Lord : thus the Lord dealt with the Church of the Thyatireans , wherin was Iezabel , Revel. 2 , 21 he gaue her a time to repent , and shee did not , therefore was shee destroied . As for the other sort of sinners , who offend of infirmity , though they fal many times a day , yet they rise againe , & turne vnto the Lorde , disallowing that which they haue done , hating it , 1. Ioh. 3.9 , 14. and striving against it : nether can they delight and like of sinne , but striue against it , no more then a loving childe abide the disgrace of his father . The reason hereof is , because they haue the spirit of God dwelling in them , Rom. 8.14 and they are led by the spirit of God , which causeth them to liue a godly , & a sanctified life , with out the which there is no salvation .

Gall.

A hard saying . Is it altogither impossible them , that a man may be saved except he haue lived a godly life ?

Scholl .

As impossible as it is for a Cammell to goe through the eie of a needle , as to bee cast into the fire , and not be burnt , as to be cast downe a high steepe Towre and not be hurt . I grant that the Lorde is aboue his lawe given to men , & therefore can if hee will dispense with his owne lawe , but whosoever will liue an vngodly life , presuming to bee saved , because God can saue him , doth as foolishly as if he should cast himself into the fire , Dan 3.25 . Ps 91.11 , 12 presuming that God wil preserue him from burning , because he can ; or cast himselfe from a high tower presuming that God will preserue him from hurting , because he can . God can do many things that hee will never doe , among which this is one , that he wil not saue the wicked that continue in vngodlynes vntil their liues end ; which may be proved by many reasons . First rea - 1 Tim. 5.21 25. 1 Thess 4.7 . Mat 19.28 Rom. 8. As first those whom hee hath ordained to salvation , hee not only calleth , but also sanctifieth , but they that liue continually in vngodlines h●ue no part of sanct●fication , and therfore no part of glorification . Now least you should think that the Apostle meaneth that sanctification onely which is in Christ , & is imputed to vs by faith , and not also some measure of inherent sanctification , marke well what hee saith in the same Chapter , shewing what kind of men they are that shal be saved . Vers 1. there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ ; Now least the wicked ( as many of them do should challendge a part in Christ , hee sheweth who are in Christ : saying , who liue not after the flesh , but after the spirite , that wholly yeelde not themselues as slaues to their carnal lusts , but such as delighte in a spirituall life conformable to the worde of God . They then that shal be saved must haue some inherent sanctification . And in an other place he sheweth , that they , who are appointed to inherite the kingdome of God , are by the goodnes of God preordained , that they shall liue a godly life before they shall enter into the kingdome of God ; saying we are the workemanship of God , created in Iesus Christ vnto good workes , which God hath ordained , Eph. 2.10 . that we should liue in them . If God hath preordained that they , who shal inherit his kingdome , shal liue a godly life , bringing forth good works , so that as our Saviour saith , by their fruits you shall know them , Mat. 7.16 . howe can anye hope to bee saved without good works ? This point , that they which shall bee saved shall liue a godly life , is so manifest in the scripture as nothing more . The Lorde himselfe protesteth concerninge these . That he will put his feare in their heartes , Ier. 32 . 4● Ezec. 11.19.20 . & cap. 36.26 that they shall never depart from him , and that he will put a new spirit in their bowels , & take away their stony harts out of their bodies , & will giue them a heart of flesh , that they may walke in his statuts . Yea the care of observing the wil of God , in the elect , shal be such and so eminent , that whosoeuer seeth them shall knowe them therby . Esay 61. For as the earth bringeth forth her bud , and the garden causeth that which is sowen in it , to grow , so will the Lord cause righteousnes to grow in them , saith the Prophet . And our Saviour saith , Ioh. 14.2 24. ●f any loue mee he wil keepe my commandements , but he that loveth me not , keepeth not my commandements . And againe he saith , ●oh . 13.35 by this shal all men know that yee are my disciples , if yee keepe my commandement●s . A second reason Second reason . may be given why God will not receiue those , who defer their conversion to God , by newnesse of life , vntil the last gasp , hoping that that will be sufficient if they cal for mercy then ▪ Because our Saviour doeth pronounce this general proposition , Mat 10.33 that he that de●ieth him before men , he will denie him before his father in heaven : now such as liue vngodly , without a care of doing the wil of the Lord ( though they professe him in their mouths , 1 Sam 2.12 Tit 1.16 . They professe th●y know god , but by their work they deny him . 2. Tim. 3. ● yea though they beleeue and acknowledge all the Articles of the Creed , yea haue knowledge of the Scripturs ) yet if they liue vngodly , they deny God , and therefore shal be denied , if you will bee tryed by the Scripture , who so defineth of them as denyers of God , A thirde reason why they shal not be received , Third reason who deferre their conversion vnto God vntill their departing out of this life , is , because it is not possible that then they can haue a true repentance . Mark 1.4 . Calvinsti . lib 3 cap 3 se●t . 3 5. & sequent . For a true repentance cannot be without his essential parts , one essential part whereof ●● ●ewnes of life , & what newnes of life can they haue who are departing this life ? That this newnes of life is an essential part of true repentance , it is manifest by the doctrine of Iohn the Baptist preaching repentance , Mat 3.8 . Act 26.1.19.20 . who when he saw the Pharisies resort to his baptism of repentance , men reposing themselues wholy on the faith of their father Abraham , saith vnto them , say not within your selues we haue Abraham to our Father , but bring forth fruites worthy amendement of life , for every tree that bringeth not foorth good fruite , is hewen downe , & cast into the fier , it is not sufficient to feare God , for so did Pharaoh . It is not sufficient to be sorie for that which is past , for so was Caine , Esaw , and Iudas , nay Iudas went farther , he was not only sorie for that which was past , but also confessed his sinne , acknowledged the Innocencie of Christ , and restored his vnlawfull gotten goods ( having heerein a better conscience than many cruel oppressors in these daies , who come shorte of him in this point ) yet was it not a true repentaunce ; so did the Emperour Maximinus who tyrannically dealt with the Christians , Euseb. lib. 8. c. 17. 18. vntill he fel into a sore disease , as he thought , past recovery ; then in his sicknesse bethinking himselfe how cruelly hee had handled the Christians , & perswading himselfe that he was punished with that soare disease , for his cruelty against them , presently he commaunded edictes to be given out with all expedition , that the Christians should bee dealte with , in al curteous manner , and their goods shoulde bee restored them , their Temples reaedified , and desired them that they would pray for him ; which beeing done hee was restored to his former health ; being recovered to health , hee falleth as hotely to persecute them as ever he did . So that you may see , though the wicked in such cases of extremity , shew some token of repentance , 1. Kings 21 27. Fourth reason . Prov. 15 ● Esay 1.14 Psa 66.18 . Psa. 62. ●2 . Mat. 16 17 Rom 2.6 . Rev. 22.12 as also did Ahab : Yet it is but a bastarde repentance , it proceedeth only of feare , and not of loue , and therfore cannot bee accepted as a true repentance . A fourth reason why such shall not be receiued , is because their praier is an abhomination vnto the Lord , much lesse accepted of , as it hath beene proved before . The fift reason , The first reason Rom. 2. is because God wi●● iudge every man according to hi● works . And lastly true repentance is not in the power of man , but a special gift of God , The sixt reason . Iames 1. bestowed onlie on the elect , who alway haue his true feare in them , so that they ●un not into such excesse of si● as the wicked doe , 1. Ioh. 3.9 . because they are borne of God and haue alwaies his seed in th . m :

Gal.

You say wel , repentance is the gift of God , it is not in my power , it is God ( say you ) that putteth his spirit in his elect , which causeth them to liue a godly life , far better then other men . If than I liue ●ot as they do , blame me nor , when God sh●l put that holy spi●it in mee , which will make me willing to keepe his law , I shall then l●ue as honestly as they , but yet I haue it not .

Scholl .

It is said in the scripture , Prov. 19.3 the foolish ●erverteth his own waies , & his hart freeteth against the Lorde , when Adam had foolishly consented to his wife ●o eate the forbidden fruit , he concealeth his owne fault , & excuseth himselfe , laying the fault , in a manner , on God ; saying , Gen. 3.12 . the woman that thou gavest me , gaue it mee . Wicked men , who willingly and wilfully break the commandements of God , beeing carried awaye with their own lusts , Iames 1.24 lay the fault on God that they do not liue as they shold , as if God had put such wickednes into their hart so to doe , when as on the contrary God calleth them earely and late , Deut. 28. ezhorteth them with the blessings of this life , and of the life to come , threatneth the obstinate , & oftentimes layeth punishments on them , that they may know themselues , yet for all this they will not regarde him , though he vseth long suffering , and giue them time to repent , whose patience they misvse and misconster , according to that testimonye which Salomon giveth of them . Eccl. 8.11 . Esay 26 10 Psa. 50.21 Because ( saith he ) sentence against an evill worke is not speedily executed , therfore their hart is fu●ly set to doe evill . Yea they imagine that God regardeth not what is done here on earth . But to turne to your words , wherein you would not be blamed though you liue not according to the will of God , ascribing the fault hereof to God . Pardon me if I flatter you not . I say the fault is yours , & you are highly to be blamed . For hee that will liue godly , must vse such meanes to bring himselfe therevnto as GOD hath appointed ; hee that wil prolong his naturall life must vse such meanes as God hath appointed therevnto , as meats & drinks , else he cannot , & if he refuse it , he is guilty of his own death . In like manner , he that wil liue a spiritual life , must vse such meanes as God hath appointed thervnto ; as reading of his word , frequenting of sermons , praiers , frequenting of godly mens company , & by having conference with them . Which things it appeareth by your own confession , you haue not vsed , & therfore no marvel though you haue no delight in a godly life

Gall.

Wel , wel no more I pray you . It is pitty such doctrine shoulde be publikely preached , it would make many dispaire .

Scholl .

The revealed worde of God must be preached , though the wicked take offence at it ; predestination is an excellent doctrine , yet it is a stumbling blocke to many , who carelesly say when they heare of it ; if we be predestinated to eternall life , our ill life wil not make vs reprobates , if we be reiected , our good life will not prevaile , that we may be saved ; & vpon this false collection , they run into al manner of lewdnes , not considering that those whom he hath ordained to everlasting life , not only must , but also will liue a holy life . If there bee any that will take an offence at this doctrine of repentance & good works , it wil be such as are or haue been desperately wicked : as for those that are not gone to that hight of wickednes , they will ( when they heare this doctrin ) become more zealous of good works and walk more warily , redeeming their time , lest they overpasse the time of their repentance , knowing that if they haue not oile in their lamps , they shall be excluded the wedding . And if this doctrine were not convenient to be published so many not able men of God would not haue published it , De doctrina Christiana lib. 1. cap. 19. idem lib. 20. ca 6 de civitate dei . Augustin , he saith , that there are two sortes of deaths of the soule , the one in this life , which is a renouncing of his former ill manners and wickednes which is done by a true repentance , the other in the world to come ; & concludeth in the end of the same Chapter , that except the soule dyeth in this world , and begin to bee formed according to the image of God , Rom. 8.29 she shal not come to the heavenly blessednes , but to eternal punishment , alluding to those wordes in the Revelations , Blessed is bee that hath his part in the first resurrection , Rev. 20.6 . for ●n such the second death hath no power . And in an other place the same Augustin sheweth this point proving it by the example of David , De doctrina christiana . l. 3. c. 2● who when his wicked son Absolom was caught betweene the cliftes of the tree , by the necke , & was suddenly put to death . David lament●d him sore : But when his young childe died , assoone as he had notice of it , he reioiced ; the cause he lamented the one , was because he knew , hee went into everlasting torments because he dyed a wicked man , and had not time to repent , and yet he hung a good while before he was dead , and might haue cryed Lord haue mercy on me , if that woulde haue served : But the innocent child he lamented not , because hee had no cause to doubt of his salvation .

Gall.

Stay pray ; me thinks you haue spoken that now , which overthroweth all that you haue spoken , you say that David doubted not of the salvation of the child , I pray sir what good works could the poore young infant haue ? hee had none and yet saved . Besides when you mention the hanging of Absolom , you put me in minde of an obiection which you wil hardly answere , namely of the theefe who was crucified when our Saviour was crucified ; he was saved without good works , & why not I ?

Schol.

When I say that no man can bee saved without some measure of sanctification and good workes , I vnderstand alwaies , Fulke in his notes vpon lam . cap. 1 25. the marginal . note . that ord●nary course which God vseth in bringing his elect to the inioying of his kingdome , even as Paule speaketh of f●●h , that without faith is impossible to please God , and faith commeth by the hearing of God ; word . Yet in young children this kind of faith is not required , but in those only who at come to yeeres & discretion . So neither is that inherent sanctification which consisteth in good works and holines of life required in young children , but they are saved after an extraordinary manner , namely because they are contained in the covenant of God with Abraham & his seed . So that this overthroweth nothing of that which I haue said . Concerning the other parte of your obiection of the theefe , who was saved with out good works , & therefore there is no cause but you may be also , in these words you doe , as if a robber on the high way should thus reason though I know that to rob one on the high waye , by the ordinary course of the lawes of this Realm , is death , and ordinarily such offenders are executed , yet I know one that by the extraordinary favor of the Prince , was spared , therfore I will robbe too : for I see no cause why I should not be saved as wel as he . You would thinke such a fellowe notoriously foolish who should do thus . But whereas you say the theefe had no workes , it is not so ; For as soone as hee came to the knowledge of Christ , straighte way he shewed his faith by good workes , and for his time , he had after he came to the knowledge of Christ , no man did ever so much . The Apostles forsooke Christ , but he ( though he knew to defend the innocency of Christ , was to accuse Pilate , the high Priests , the Scribes , Pharisies , Elders , & the people of extreame iniustice ) stood to the defence of our Savior , saying this man hath done nothing amisse ; acknowledged his godhead , & reproved his fellow reviling Christ , fearest thou not God , Luk. 23.40 seeing thou art in the same damnation ? confessed his sinnes we are iustlie punished ; And lastlye praied vnto him , Lord remember me when thou commest to thy kingdome ; & yet you say you see no reason why you should not be saved as well as he . If you can shew that you haue bin as carefull to set foorth the glory of God , ever since you came to the knowledge of Christ , as hee was , you say somewhat , else your case is not alike with his . His sins were sinnes of ignorance , but you cannot plead ignorance , for it cannot be , but you haue often heard , that every one that wil cal on the name of Christ , 2. Tim. 2.19.20 . must depart from iniquity , els shal he not be a fit vessel for the kingdom of ●●d .

Gall.

Tush , what tell you me of this and that ? That I must be careful to learne the word of God , I must be diligent in frequenting Sermons , frequent the company of those that are godlye , and liue a godly life . I pray answere me but this ▪ Is not every one already either ordained to everlasting life , or everl●stinge damnation ?

Scholl .

Yes .

Gall.

Can that which God hath alreadye decreed of them be altered ?

Scholl .

No ,

Gall.

Why then , what talk you idlely and absurdly ? As if it any thing availeth what I nowe doe , either good or badde ; since the decree of God cannot be altered , whatsoever I do .

Schol.

It is true which you say , that the ordinaunce of God already decreed cannot be altered . Yet your illation hereof is very false and sophisticall . The which that you may the better see , I will illustrate it by the like sophisme . S. Origen telleth of a certaine sophister who to perswade a sicke man not to sende for a Physition , Lib. 2. contra Celsum vsed this reason , if ( said he ) it be decreed by destiny that thou sh●lt recover thy health , then in vaine doest thou send for a physition , but if it be decreed by destinie , that thou shalt not recover , then also in vain dost thou send for a physition , since hee shall not helpe thee : the sicke replyed to the sophister ( beeing belike a new married man ) in this manner . If God hath decreed that thou shalt haue no children , in vain dost thou vse the meanes of a woman , but if God hath decreed that thou shalt haue children , in vaine hast thou vsed the meanes of a woman , for that which God hath decreed , shall bee done , though thou hadst not vsed the meanes of a woman . The Sophister saide true , that if it were decreed by destiny that the sicke man should not recover , in vain should he send for a physition , but his illation hereon was false & absurd , being ignorant of the event & what was decreed : that it was in vaine to send for a physition , sith God hath ordained physitions , as an ordinarye meanes to cure diseases , and therefore not to be neglected , but vsed , except we wil willingly refuse the ordinance of god , to bring to passe that which God hath ordained to be done . It is true also which the sicke man replyed , in vaine we marry for procreation of children , if God hath ordayned we shall haue no children , but his illation was false hereon , that the sophister vsed in vain the ordinary meanes which God had ordained to bee vsed to this purpose ; So you say true , that whatsoever you do now , you cannot alter that which God alreadye hath decreed , but your illation or inference hereon is very false , that it makes no matter to salvation howesoever you liue , sith as God hath predestinated men to salvation , so also hath he ordained the means wherby they shall come to everlasting life , the which means if they despise they despise God , and faile of their salvation . 1. Thess 4.7.8 . 1. Pet. 2.24 Luk. 1.74.75 . 1. Cor. 10.9 . Num. 21.6 Psal. 106. Numb. 14.37 . Nowe the ordinary meanes , which God hath ordained , to bring his elect to salvation , as by many degrees and steps , are first an effectuall vocation by the externall preaching of his worde , and internall operation of his holy spirit ; from this knowledge of God by vocation , to iustification by a true faith ; from iustification proceedeth sanctification , and then glorification of eternal life .

Gall.

Come , come , while you thus discourse we forget our pace , spur .

Scho.

Alas it is pitty to ride faster , you see how our horses sweate with this pace which wee haue rid already .

Gall.

What ? come , never spare a ●ade , spur , spur .

Scholl .

Nay wee may not vse crueltie towards dombe creatures , The scripture saith , Deut. 22.6.7 . if thou finde a nea●● of young birds , thou shalt not kill the d●mme 〈◊〉 them , and least you should thinke this a light or small matter , God promiseth to them that obserue this light commaundement , length of life and prosperity of daie● . And it is said in an other place , Pro. 12.10 a righteous man vseth mercy towards his beast , but the mercies of the wicked are cruell .

Gall.

Nay then , if you are so precize , that I may not spur my horse , but by scripture , fare you wel , I am not for your company . I see one riding before , I will overtake him , I hope he is a better fellow .

Scholl .

Farewel sir .

Gall.

You are wel overtaken sir .

Papist .

You are welcome ,

Gal.

I pray how far ride you this way .

Pap.

To Oxford .

Gal.

I am glad I haue light in your company , I haue bin so tyred with a scholler behinde , that I was faine to gallop away from him

Pap.

What s the matter ?

Gal.

Hee is so ful of reformation , & instruction , & reprehension , & contradiction , all vpon holynes and good works , that hee puts me cleane out of my humor . 2. Pet. 2.3 .

Pap.

You haue said enough I knowe by that which you haue spoken , 2. Pet. 2.3 . of whose brood he is .

Gall.

Whose ?

Pap.

Of Luthers .

Gall.

Luthers ? what was he ?

Papist .

A man that contradicted the whole world , whose spirite of contradiction hee hath left to al h s brood , and if you thinke I falsely accuse them , you shall see the proofe of my speech ; you say he is all for good workes , if your hast be not the greater , let vs a light and walke a little , & he wil quickly over take vs . I will speake for good works , & I wil lay a quart of wine , he will be as hoat against them , as he hath bin for them .

Gall

Content , let vs alight , I wil lay with you that quart , I haue no hast , onlie I loue not to ride a dreaming pace ; I woulde gladly heare the scholler recall all that he hath said . But I pray you what was that Luther you speake of .

Pap.

Hee was once himselfe a Frier , had vowed chastity , acknowledged the supremacie of the Pope , & for a time , as others , was devout , in fasting , praier & other devotions , but having the spirit of contradiction , he cast off all care of obedience to his superiour , denied the supremacy of the Pope , renounced his vow , married against his oath : left off al good devotion , moved such sedition in the Catholike Church , that yet never could be ended , & whatsoever impiety you see in the people , he was the first man that loosed the raines vnto it , & hath bin the cause of all such licentiousnes which now you see too common amongst vs , preaching liberty & licentiousnes , and by his pleasing doctrine , drew such a number after him , that hee had not onely many followers , but also mighty defenders , so that the Pope was faine to call the Counsaile of Trent against him , & , Sleydan lib. 3. had hee not hid his head , he had bin punished according to his desertes : It is pitty he was ever born , he hath done more hurt to the catholike church then ever will be throughly well salved : such a deadly wound hath he given the church . But I leaue to discourse further of his behaviour & life , & referre it till we come to our Inne in Oxforde : for it wil require a whole daies discourse to set him out in his true colours . You see the scholler is now come neere vnto vs , & therefore wee must leaue this talke , & be th●nke vs how wee may take occasion to enter into your former talke of good works , that our wager may be tried .

Gal.

Let mee alone for that , I will giue you occasion enough , if you will take it when it is offered

Papist .

Yes I warrant you , I wil take it , if it bee offered : but hee is come .

Gal.

Come sir , I did well hope , when I parted from you that this gentleman woulde haue rode faster , but hee loues to spare his horse as well as you , & besides he is iumpe of your opinion , all vpon a godly life , and good workes .

Papist .

Indeed sir when this gentleman did imparte parte of the good communication that had past betweene you , I was the willinger to stay til you should overtake vs , for I am very willing to haue acquaintaunce and conference with such men : ●nd the rather , because you so h ghly esteem of good works , when as the most parte of preachers contente themselues with that dry doctrin of bare faith without works , little considering that they are the very causes wherby we purchase the favor of God , & wherby we may merit heaven .

Schol.

Those speeches are false & blasphemous speeches , I cannot endure to hear them ; the best works that ever were done ( excepte the works of Christ ) f you will stande to the worth of them , deserue eternall damnation , if God iudge them in rigour and not in mercie , because they answere not to the perfection of loue toward God , which is required in our duty . Much lesse are they of any value , in that respect to purchase heaven . Paule was a man very full of good works , yet he accounted his owne righteousnes but as doung , Phil. 3.8 . much differing from the conceit of good works , which you haue .

Pap.

St , St , my wine .

Gall.

It is gone , I yeelde .

Papist .

Pardon me sir . I spoke this , but only to see howe you like their opinion who so teach ; therefore I pray take not these my words , as my opinion , yet I must say this ; I haue bin in company with those , whom you cal catholiks , who giue shrewd reasons for their opinion , such as , I confesse , I am not able to answere .

Scholl .

I pray what are they .

Pap.

Vpon this condition I will relate what reasons I haue heard , that you shal not take that which I speak to be mine opinion .

Scholl .

Be it so .

Pap.

Wel then , they proue that we can satisfie for our sins , and purchase the favor of God by good works , Dan. 4 24. out of Daniel where the Prophet adviseth king Nabuchadnezzar ( having highly displeased God for his wickednes ) to break off , or redeeme his sins by righteousnes , and his iniquitie with mercie towards the poore : & againe Salomon saieth , loue covereth a multitude of sinnes , and againe he saith , by mercie and trueth iniquitye shall bee forgiven , which me thinks are very manifest places , to proue their assertion .

Scho.

Sir you must vnderstand that there are two sorts of sinnes , the one directly against the Maiestie of God himselfe , which is when wee transgresse the commandement of the first table ; the other sort when we sinne against our brother , which is the transgression of the second table , as when we wrong or oppresse them , as Nabuchadnezzar did : who had violently destroied & oppressed many . As for the wrong we do to men , Calvin instit . lib. 3. cap. 4. sect. 36. we may by righting them satisfie men , of which kind of satisfying men , & not God , Daniell speaketh , when he saith to the King , let my counsaile bee accepted , Dan 4.24 . breake of thine iniquitie by righteousnesse , and by mercie to the poore , as if hee had saide , O King thou hast heretofore oppressed , and iniured many , now right them , nowe deale mercifully with the poore , let thy true & serious repentaunce be manifested by good workes ; now if you will here by conclude , that good works and mercy to the poore doe satisfie for our former sinne , with God , you not only wrest the words of the Prophet , further then they are meant , but also derogate from the passion of our only Savior . For if wee will satisfie for our former trespasses , them must wee do it by some thing of our owne , not due vnto God ; but all things wee can do whatsoever , are due vnto God by the right of creation : so that not Adam , before his fall , could merite any thing . For al the excellency in him , he had of God ; much lesse can any of his seede merit ( Christ only excepted ) any thing , seeing the best of them come not neere him in perfection before his fal . Hence is it that the Apostle saith , 1. Cor. 4.7 . Yee haue nothing , but that you haue receiued , & if thou hast receaved why boastest thou as though thou hadst not received , the more thou hast received , the more is required at thy hands . Gal. 2.16 , 17. Eph. 2.8.9 And in an other place , the same Apostle saith , by grace are yee saved through faith , and that not of your selues ; it is the gifte of God ; not of workes , lest anie man shoulde boast , if any man can merite by good workes , hee hath wherein hee may boast , in which wordes the Apostle vtterly denyeth , that any man may boast , or attribute any part of his salvation to his own desert . Concerning your second place you alleadge to proue this , P●o. 10.12 loue covereth a multitude of sinne , it is manifest , that you haue taken this place vpon trust , but he that lent you this place deceaved you ; if you had but only looked vpon the place your selfe , you would haue perceived , that these wordes are not pertinent to this point , whervnto you alleadge them , no more than a poke ful of plumbs ; the which , if you ●ome the wordes next going before , you may evidently see . Where Salomon sheweth the nature of hatred , Pro. 10.12 and the nature of loue ; he saith , hatred stirreth vp contention , but loue covereth a multitude of sinnes , by which wordes , nothing els is meant , but where men hate one an other , there they will goe aboute to discredite those they hate , and speake all the evil they know of their adversary , according to that of the Apostle S Iames , Iam. 3.16 . where envying & strife is , ther is sedition , and ' al manner of evil works , but where loue is , if they whom they loue haue committed any thing amisse , they blase it not abroad , but conceale it , for the loue they beare to the party so offending , which we see verified in Ioseph , who loving his espowsed wife Mary , when hee perceived shee was with childe , Mat. 1.19 . would not make her a publike example , & draw her before the magistrate , but was minded secretly to put her away . Now Salomon saying no more , but affirming only that the nature of loue is such , as that it wil not defame those whom it loueth , you bring it , as though he said loue meriteth the forgiuenesse of sinnes in the sight of God , very wide from the meaning of Salomon . Now concerning your third reason , Pro. 16.6 . by mercy and trueth shall iniquitie bee forgiven , marke well the words ; he doth not say for the merite of mercie and truth ( which you are to proue ) but by , as by the meanes , & not for the merit of them . The like speech hi● in the Prophet Ezechiell , Ezech. 18. where the Lord test●fieth , that if the wicked wil forsake his wicked way , and do that which is right and good , the Lord wil not remember his former wickednesse . In which words hee sheweth his mercie in forgiuing them , & the meanes , not the cause wherby they may obtaine mercy , namely by a true repentance , which consisteth in newnesse of life & in doing mercy and trueth .

Pap.

This is but your private opinion ; the fathers had a higher opinion of good workes , they tooke them for merites of eternall life .

Scholl .

If you read them you shal find the contrary . Bernard in Cant serm. 22. Bernard saith of them all generally , sunt via ad regnum , non causa regnandi , they are the way wherby we are brought to the kingdom of god , & not the causes of our obtaining heauen . & Origen expounding these wordes , Origin . in epist. ad Rom. 4 4. Ambrose de vocatione gent l. 1. cap. 5. August de spirit & lit ca 17. & epist. 105. ad Sixt. to him that worketh , he reward is not counted for grace but of debt , saith , I cannot bee perswaded that there is any worke , that can craue recompence or reward of God , as a due debt . It were too long to recite what Augustin , what Ambrose , what Ierome and others of the Fathers say of this point . For the Papist wil not stand now to their expositions .

Pap.

Nay slander them not , they alway stoode highly on them .

Sch●ll .

It is but a vaunt b●fore those that never read them , Reynolds in Apologia Thesium sect. 24. as it hath bin proved by a reverend learned man , & if they saw that they made not clearly against them , they would never haue dealte so irreligiously with them , not only to blotte out whatsoeuer they say against them , but also to adde vnto them , and make them speake as themselues list , altering the sence of their words , by interposing words or sentences .

Pap.

I cannot beleeue this , this were to confesse that they rely little on them .

Scholl .

I easily beleeue that you think there is no such matter , for none but the soundest frends of the Pope , & late king Philip of Spaine , are admitted to the knowledge of this mistery , who are sworne not to reveile it . Howbeit , it pleaseth God , this il practise of theirs should come to light , contrary to their expectation , & I can shewe you the booke which they cal Index expurgatorius , wherein , is namely set downe , what they shall adde , and what they shall alter , & leaue out , & in what Auctors ; and that it is not lawful for any to haue any booke , but so corrected , nor lawfull for anie Printer to print them , but as he shall haue direction from this Index before mentioned .

Pap.

If it be so I cannot tell what to say to it ; but be it the fathers say nothing for their opinion , yet the scriptures are very plaine , that as badde works are causes of our damnation , so by good works we merite heaven . For the merit of good workes , it is evident by the wordes of Christ , who will cal some to his kingdome , & sheweth a cause why they shal enioy it , saying , for , or because , Matth. 25. when I was hungrie , thirstie , and naked , yee fedde me , gaue me drinke , and cloathed me . Now this I learned when I was a young scholler , that quia or quoniam , for , or because , are alwaies called causall wordes , because wee never vse them , but when we shew the cause of a thing , and so Christ vseth it in this place , come and inherite my kingdome , for you haue done this , shewing the cause why they shall inherite it .

Scholl .

Parte of that which you haue said is true , as when you say ill or wicked workes are causes of damnation ; because ill works are perfectly ill , but no good workes , ( no not of the best of the Saints in this world ) are perfectly good , & therfore cannot deserue eternall life . Whereas you say , that wee never vse these wordes quia or quoniam , but when wee shew the cause of a thing , it is not true . But stay , know you him that rode by vs even now ?

Pap.

No , I never saw him before , but you maye see hee is a serving man .

Scholl .

Why say you hee is a serving man ?

Pap.

Because hee weares a blue coate .

Scholl .

So , your own mouth , confuteth that which you affirmed before .

Pap.

Why so ?

Scholl .

You saide before , that these words , for , & because , are alwaies causall words , & never vsed , but when the cause of a thing is shewed , & herevpon you conclude , because our Savior Christ vseth these words , for or because I was hungry & thirstie and yee refreshed me , therfore those good workes must be causes of enioying the kingdome of God : but it appeareth by your owne words that , ( for or because ) do not alwaies signifie the cause , but oftentimes a probable , or a necessary consequution of a thing . You say he is a serving man , because hee weares a blue coate ; this because , signifieth here in this speech a Probable consequution , because few weare a blue coate but serving men . A blue coate makes not a serving man , no more than a hood a Monck . For if it shoulde be the cause of a serving man , then if a woman put it on , she were a serving man : in like manner doth our Saviour vse these wordes ( for or because ) in the place you alleage for the merit of good works , namely , he signifieth the necessary consequution of good workes to abound in those that are predestinated to eternal life . Mat. 19.28 ●oh . 14.23 For as a badge or cognizans , point out the man that weares it , whose man hee is , or as a Friers weede , be it blacke or gray , causeth men to take them that weare them , to be a black or a gray Frier , because it is a weede peculier to their order : So are the charitable workes of the elect so eminent in them , that thereby as by badges they are distinguished from other men ; for hee will glorifie none , but whom he first sanctifieth ; Coloss 3.10 . Ezech. 44.7.10 . Rom. 12.1 1. Thess. 5.23 Ioh. 13.35 . 1. Ioh. 3.9.10 Eph. 4.24 . Ioh. 8.39 . by their fruites you shall knowe them . By this charitablenes one towards another are the true Disciples of our Saviour knowne from other men . By this our Saviour Christ disproveth the wicked Iewes not to be the sonnes of faithfull Abraham . If ( saith he ) ye were the sonnes of Abraham , you would do the workes of Abraham , & herevpon is it that our Saviour saith come inherit the kingdome prepared for you , by your good workes & charitable deeds , as by badges you haue shewed your selues to be those men for whom it was prepared . Your deedes haue shewed that you are the right sons of Abraham ; the right cause why they enioy it , our Saviour setteth downe in the same chapter , namely , the free mercy & goodnesse of God only , Mat. 25.34 saying come yee blessed of my father inherit the kingdome prepared for you before the foundation of the world ; this kingdome then was predestinated vnto them before they were borne , before they had done good or badde , neither can any man imagine that God chose out such as he foresaw wold do good ( as some haue vainely imagined ) for in that one man liveth better then another , it proceedeth of the speciall grace of God . Iob would haue bin as bad as Iudas , or Iulian the Apostata , if the grace of God had not bettered him : For not onely to do wel , Phil. 2.13 but also wil wel is of the Lords speciall grace . Yet further for your better satisfaction in this point , that it may plainly appeare , that we can no way ment any thing with god , much lesse eternall life , you must consider , that in a merite there are these three things necessarily required . First , that that wherewith we merite , Iames 1.17 be a thing of our owne , & not his with whom we woulde merit ; but good works are not our own , but the graces & gifts of God bestowed on vs . Secondly it is required in a true merite , that that wherewith we woulde merite , be profitable to him with whom we would merite ; but there is nothing in the power of man that God standeth in neede of . Luk. 17.9.10 . Thirdly it is required , that the thing wherewith we would merit , be of equal value , with that which we would merite , but there is no comparison between the best works of any of the Saints in this life , Psal. 16.2 . and the ioyes of the kingdome of heauen . Now if all these three are necessaryly required in a merite , and not so much as one of these three can be found in our good workes , I may safelye conclude that it is impossible wee shoulde merite anye thing at Gods hands ; especially seeing we are bound by the right of creation , sith we are his creatures , to obserue and doe his will , and no man ever perfectly kept his commandements as hee ought to do , but came short of his duety , much lesse did more then was his duety , whereby hee might merite .

Pap.

No ? Did never any man perfectly keepe the law of God ? This is plaine against the scripture which you make the only rule of truth . Iob. 1.8 . God himselfe gaue testimony of Iob , that hee was a righteous man , and it is saide that David was a man according to Gods owne hart . Psalm. 7. Yea David himselfe is not afraid to say vnto God , try mee , and examine mee , and if there bee any fault founde in mee , then let mine enemie prevaile against mee , and laie mine honour in the dust ; surely if hee were not very confident that hee had perfectly kept his lawe , hee would never haue spoken so boldly . And is it not said of Zacharias and Elizabeth , Luk. 1 6. that they were iust and without faulte ? The scripture is full of such speeches , it is a shame for you to denye that which the scripture so plainely affirmeth and yet pretende , that you holde nothing but that which the Scripture teacheth .

Scholl .

Stay , be not too confident that the scripture is on your side , and against vs , & that you may ●ee you haue small cause , heare your places alleadged answered , then vaunt if you haue iust occasion . First concerning your first reason you say that God himselfe gaue testimony of Iob , that he was a iust man , & therefore he absolutelie observed th● lawe . In citing the testimonie of God , of Iobs righteousnes or iustice , you leaue out halfe the testimonye which God giveth of him , which if you had recited al , it would much haue made for the understanding of that place . The whol testimony or title which God giveth of him is this . None is like Iob in all the earth , Iob. 1.8 . an vpright man & iust , one that feareth God & escheweth evill . Now these words import not so much as you woulde make them , for they are spoken comparatiuely , as if he had briefly said , none on the earth is so iust , or so vp right a man as Iob is . This doth not import that either Iob or any else was perfectly iust ; yet was Iob tearmed iust and vpright , not because there was nothing amisse in h●m , Iob 9 23. & 39.37 . but because , without hypocrisie , in sincerity he feared God & eschewed evil ; not because he had the perfect feare and loue of God , but because he had the true fear of Gods by reason of his true affection in godlines , not by reason of the perfection of his inherent righteousnes . A young infant is a perfect man , because he hath al the essential parts of a man , body , and soule , yet is he farre from the perfection of a man , but daily he increaseth in perfection : So had Iob true righteousnes , but not the perfection of righteousnesse . Concerning your second obiection , that David appealed to the iustice of God , if he found any fault in him , then he desired no pardon , but punishmente : If you had read it your selfe , you would haue perceiued these words were not spoken of his whole life , but onely of one falsely supposed action ; for being falsely accused , that he went about some conspiracy against the person of king Saule , he pronounceth these words , Lord try me , and examine mee , if there be any fault found in mee ( speaking of the false supposed conspiracie against king Saul , of the which hee was altogither guiltlesse ) then let mine enemy take me , and persecute mee , & lay mine honor in the dust . That he was a sinner the Scripture recordeth , 2. Sam. 11 1. Chro , 1.2 . yet hee was a man according to Gods own hart , because hee delighted in the law of God , & made it his studie , and when he tripped and went wrong , hee acknowledged his owne infirmitie and craved pardon for it , God accepting in Christ his endevours , not exacting perfection in his deeds . Concerning your last obiection of Zachary and Elizabeth his wife , that they were both iust before God , and walked in all the commandements of the Lord without reproofe : indeed they were iust before God , but it was by imputation of the iustice of Christ , for whose comming they dayly expected , & they walked in all the commandements of God without reproofe before men , but not perfectly before God . For if they had not acknowledged themselues sinners , they needed not haue expected Christ their redeemer , Luk. 1.68.69 , and albeit they be tearmed iust , yet it doeth not followe that they were without sin . The worde iust , doeth not alwaies signifie one without sin , but one that delighteth , or endevoureth to be iust and holy , according to that saying , the iust falleth seven times a day ; though a man sin seven times , Pro. 24.16 1. Pet. 4.18 that is many times a day , yet the scripture tearmeth him iust , by reason of his affection and his endevour to be iust ; Zacharias and Elizabeth were iust before God , & man , that is , reputed , taken , & accepted iust before GOD in respect of the merites ▪ of their redeemer , on whom they beleeved , and exspected : their endevours were accepted of as iust , though not iust perfectly , for so no flesh is , or hath beene iust ( Christ only excepted ) as it is plainely set down in the scripture even by Iobs own mouth , whom you alleadged to be without sin ; he saith plainly , Iob. 9.20 . Ps. 51.9.7 . if I should iustifie my selfe , mine own mouth would condemne me : & againe Eliphas saith generally , not only of all the holy and iust men that ever were , but of the Saintes in heaven ; what is man , that hee should bee cleane , & he that is borne of a woman , that he should be iust ? Iob. 15.14 15. & cap. 14 4. Behold God found not stedfastnesse in his Saints , yea the heauens , are not cleane in his sight , how much lesse a man . This doe the Fathers also affirme . Augustine saith there is nether Saint nor righteous man that is without sinne , notwithstanding they cease not to be Saints and righteous , because they haue their affection still set vpon holynes . Aug de fide orthod. cap. 40. & al Jnnocens . Pap. ep●st . 95 & eachirid . cap 32. Hier adve . Pelag. & idem ad Rustia . Ambros de vocatione gent. lib. 5. ● . Others of the Fathers are of the same opinion whose words to repeat would be tedious . Again Zacharian and Elizabeth his wife , were vnreproueable before men , because they so behaved thēs●lus , as that no man coulde iustly complaine of any ill conversation in them , this doth not proue they were without infirmities or sinnes . For externall actions may haue good shewes , and yet they may be haynous sinnes , yet commended as good so farre as they are externall actions : yea further rewarded , as good externall actions , with temporall blessings . As for example whenas Iehu had destroyed the house of Ahab , the Lord saith vnto him , 2 King . 10 30. because thou hast diligently exequ●ted all that which was right in mine eies , and hast done vnto the house of Ahab , according to all things that were in my heart , therfore shall thy sons sit vpon the throne of Israell vnto the fourth generation : if you look on the external action of Iehu in destroying Ahab and his posterity , he did that which was according to Gods minde , who would haue him destroyed , because he persecuted his Prophets , & for his cruelty against Naboth : But if you respect the minde of Iehu in the execution hereof , he highly sinned ; for he did not destroy Ahab , as to execute Gods iudgementes against Ahab , but to settle himself in Ahabs kingdome , and therefore that he might make the kingdom sure vnto himselfe , went farther than his commission , he not only destroyed Ahab and Iezabell & their children , but also with great cruelty put to death those of his kindred , least they should rebel against him . Wherfore though in this place his externall action , in destroying Ahab and his children , be heere commended , & rewarded with a temporall blessing , yet his sinne , namely his ambitious minde to vsurp the kingdome , and his cruelty against the bloud of Ahab , is not only reproved , but also he hath a heavy iudgment denounced against him in the Prophet Hosea ; Hose. 1.4 . 2. King . 10 30. he did that which God had determined to be done ; but he did it not with that minde as he shoulde ; God would haue Ahab destroied , the which Iehu effected , but not because God wold haue it so done , but being ambitious to serue his own turn , that he might enioy his kingdome . The like example you haue of the king of Assyria & Nabucadnezer , Esay 10.5.6.7.12 . Ezech. 29.19 . both which did that in their externall action , which God would haue done , yet grieuously sinned ; their externall actions were allowed of , but their wicked minds condemned , so that the commendations giuen to external actions , doe not necessarily import that the doers thereof do not sinne . Howbeit when it is said of Zacharias and Elizabeth that they were vnreproue able , no doubt it was meant , that they were iust and righteous because they did seriously endevour so to be , and were so in the estimation of men ; they had that kind of iustice or righteousnes which divines call iustitiam viatoris , the iustice of those that tende to heaven , wherein there is alwaies imperfection ; not that kinde of iustice which they call iustitiam comprehensorum , the iustice of those that alreadye haue obtained the everlasting kingdom , in which kinde of iustice there is no imperfection .

Pap.

I pray sir if there bee no man perfectlye good , nor any works so good , as that there is no imperfection in them by reason wherof no man can iustly challendge eternall life as due vnto him by desert , why doe the scriptures cal eternal life a rewarde of good works ? As where it is said , Godlynesse hath the promises of this life and of the life to come . 1. Tim. 4 8 Math. 5.12 Mat 10.42 Mat. 19.29 2. Tim. 4.7.8 . Blessed are you , when men revile you , and persecute you for my name sake , and speake al manner of evill of you falsely . Reioice and be glad , for great is your reward in heaven . Hee that giveth a cup of cold water in my name , veryly hee shall not loose his reward . Hee that forsaketh house , father & mother , brothers & sisters , &c shal receiue life everlasting in the world to come . And Paul saith , I haue fought a good fight , I haue finished my course , I haue kept the faith , for henceforth is laid vp for me a crowne of righteousnes , which the Lorde the righteous iudge at tha● day shall not only giue me , but also to al them that loue his appearing . Surely he claymeth it as his tight for that he had kept the faith , and hee saith not , the mercifull iudge will giue mee , but the righteous ; iudge will giue mee , not as of mercy , but of right .

Scholl .

True it is that life everlasting is promised as a rewarde of good works , and as a due debt vnto godlynesse , but no where is it said , that good works do merite eternall life , the word merit cannot be found in all the scriptures , eternall life is the reward for godlynes of life , not because good works deserue it , but by the savour of God through Christ , life everlasting is a due debt to those that keep Gods commaundementes perfectly , because God hath promised life everlasting to such as doe keepe it , but none ever absolutely kept it , therfore of due without the grace of God by Christ ( who only of right hath purchased it ) no man can challendge it of due and right , yet are goods works all rewarded , but not of desert ( for what can we do vnto God whereby we may make God a debter vnto vs ) since all that wee can do is but our duty to him , nay not so much in duety as we ought . If then it pleaseth him to promise good workes a rewarde , it proceedeth of his goodnes so to doe , and not our desert ; he doth binde himself by his promise to reward good workes , but good workes doe not deserue either the promise or the reward : it is a debt of a bountifull promise , not of a due desert . Concerning that of Paul who ( as you say ) claymeth a crown of righteousnes not as a gift , but as due vnto him for his desert , it may be you wil accept of the answer to this , if I bring it out of a father . Heare then what S. Augustin saith , commenting vpon these words of Paule . Aug. homil 14. Aug de gratia & libero arbi●rio cap. 6 & 7. He crowneth thee ( saith S. Augustine ) O Apostle , because hee crowneth his giftes , and not thy merits , proving it out of the Psalm , where it is said , he crowneth them in mercy & compassion , & proceeding farther saith , & not thee only O man whatsoever thou art , but even thy self ô thou Apostle , howe great soever thou mayst bee . I haue fought a good fight , it remaineth I should receiue the crown of righteousnes , that is , the wages , nay ( saith Augustin ) for the wages thou hast no power to command the same at all , for in thee , thine owne worke goeth not alone , the crowne belongeth to God to giue it to whom he list , the worke is of thee , but not without his aide and helpe . When as therefore thou sayest he recompenceth good deeds : this is as if that he having prevented himselfe , in giving of good things , should retribute & make recompence for them , by giving fresh and new good thinges ; he rewardeth them ; but vnto such good things , as he already hath given , For if he hath not given them wherfore saiest thou ? 2. Tim. 4. I haue travelled more then they all , and yet not I , but the grace of God in me , & if he haue not given thee to finish thy race ; wherefore saiest thou , it is not in him that willeth ; nor in him that runneth ; but of God that sheweth mercy ? Beare with me O Apostle ( saith S. Augustine ) I see not any thing of thine owne , but that which is evill and nought , pardon mee Apostle : thus we affirme & teach because thou hast so taught , I heare thee confessing and acknowledging GODS goodnes , I doe not heare thee vnthankful , I do not see thee to haue any thing , that thou hast prepared and gotten of thy selfe , but what is evill , & therfore when God crowneth thy merites , he crowneth nothing but his owne giftes . You see now that Austen differs farre from you , he plainely affirmeth , Aug. de gra. & lib. ar. 6. 7. Aug. in 141 serm. de tempo . Psa. 16. de verbis Apost. serm. 5 & in Psal. 51. & Epist. 105. that this crowne of glory or righteousnes is not of due desert , but a reward given of grace , & he affirmeth , in many other places of his workes , that no man can merite of God , sith all ●he goodnes that is in men are the giftes of God .

Pap.

Well then , you will not haue good workes to satisfie for any sin , you deny that they merit any thing at al , you deny also that any hath or may possiblie obserue the lawe of God , thus you make godlinesse not to be of anie worth , & therfore little to be set by or regarded , which is as if you shuld disswade men from it . But since now you haue discovered your opinion of good works , I will tell you what talke passed betweeen this gentleman & me , before you overtook vs ; he told me , you stood highly vpon good workes ; at which I marveiled much , considering this age wherein all preach nothing but faith onely without good workes , presuming that you shoulde not much differ from other of your religion , I was boulde to lay a small wager with him , that ere I had done with you , you would speake as much against good workes , as you haue done for them , the which you see you haue done , making them of no value , my worse then nothing , even doung .

Scholl .

If you haue laide any such wager , them you haue lost . For vnto him I spake so of good works , that according to the ordinarie course that God vseth in saving men , no man shall be saued without them : but since I beganne to argue with you , I haue spoken no one word against good works , but only against that false account you make of them , placing them in too high a roome , in the place of christ , ascribing that vnto them , which is due only vnto Christs merites , robbing Christ of his due , ascribing that to vs & our workes , which is no way due vnto vs without iniurie done vnto our Saviour .

Gall.

As I am true gentleman , well saide scholler . Sir he aunswereth you right . For he that saith that siluer , is not as good as gold , doth not discommende silver . He hath denied that false estimation and too high rare you make good workes to be of : He hath not denied them their due praise , therefore you see I haue wonne .

Scholl .

Sir you say I account good workes worse then nothing , even doung ; blame not me for so tearming them , S ● . Paule so tearmeth them , Phil. 3.8 . not simply in themselues , but in the matter of iustification before God , which only I affirme , that to iustifie vs before GOD they are of no greater force than I haue spoken . The which that you may the better vnderstand , you must consider that the Scripture maketh but foure causes of our iustification , of the which good workes are none ; the first is the efficient cause , which is only the mercy and goodnes of God in giving his only begotten sonne for the redemption of the world . The second cause of our iustification is the materiall cause , which is the death and passion of our Saviour Christ , Ps. 49.78 . by whose obedience & fulfilling of the lawe , perfect righteousnes is purchased for vs ; the third cause is the formall cause , or instrumentall cause , which is faith alone without good workes , which faith only apprehendeth Christ our righteousnesse . These three causes the Apostle comprehendeth in one verse saying , So God loved the world , Ioh 3.16 . 1. Ioh 4.9 . that he seat his only begotten son , that who so beleeveth in him shold not perish but haue life everlasting . Where you see the efficient cause to be Gods mercie , the materiall cause to be the incarnation of Christ redeeming vs by his satisfaction of the law & sustaining the punishment due to our sinne , Rom. 2.23 24.25.26 . and faith the instrumentall cause apprehending the righteousnes of Christ . The finall cause , the fourth and last , is the glory of God , as the Apostle saith , Ephes. 2.7 that his goodnes and kindnesse might bee shewed . Heere you see the scripture teacheth that these foure aboue mentioned are the only causes of our iustification , good works haue no place among them . Now albeit wee thus teach beeing so taught by the worde of God , Iuel . in apo. Par. 2. cap. 20. Calvin . instit . libr. 3. cap. 14 sect. 21. Zanch. de attributis dei . Reinolds Apol. p. 263 Buchan . instit . theo . de bonis oper. p. 344. Pet: Mart. common plac . classe 3 de conf. christ . sect. 8. c. 11. Rom. 10.10 Fox de christo gratis iustifi . lib. 2 pag 398. Fulk . annot in 2. Iacobi 12. Remenses in annot ad Collos. cap. 1 24. yet we doe not as the Papists slaunder vs , vilifie good workes , or make no account of them ; wee ascribe vnto them , as much as truth will permitte vs , we hold they are secundary causes of our glorification , nay wee stand more for the necessity of them to salvation , then doe the Papists , wee hould that no man can bee saved without them , according to the ordinary dispensation of the graces of God . We hold , he that delighteth and continueth in sinne shall be condemned , according to that of the Prophet Ezechiel . 18.20 . The soule that sinneth , that soule shall die . But the Papists hould not this necessitie of good works , but if a man want good workes he may be saved notwithstanding , ( provided alwaies that hee giue sufficient money to the Pope for his generall * * The more mony you giue , the more sins shal be pa●doned . Grafton it the 6. yea of Richar● the 2. An● Do. 1382 Froistart Fabian . Gall. 6.5 . Ps. 49.7 . pardon ) for they teach that al the works of supererogation are in the custodie of the Pope , at whose sole pleasure they may be disposed of , which works of supererogation , such foolish virgins that want oyle in their lamps , may buy of the Pope . Thus teach the divines of Rhems contrary to the word of God , which saith , every one shall beare his owne burthen ; and in another place , the redemption of a mans soule is so precious a thing , that no man can redeeme it by any meanes , or giue a ransome to god for it . This doctrin of the scripture , which overthroweth the Popes pardons & indulgences , they cannot beare with ; it brought Luther much trouble , yea daunger of his life , because he was so bolde to discover this conicatching tricke of pardoning malefactors with Popes Buls , and such trash : nay to increase the Popes gaines they faine that he hath authoritie to free men from tormentes after they are departed this life , flat against the worde of God ; and what els is the cause why they so impudentlye affirme that manye of their Saintes haue done many workes of supererogation , yea haue sustained greater affliction , then their sinnes d●served , but onely to make the simple beleeue , that these works and these afflictions are laide vp in store with the Pope for those that haue no works , and that hee may make them rich in good works , yea though they be dead already ? Whereas if in deede they stood so much for good works for zeale to good works , & not for filthy luker , they would not secretly vndermine the doctrine , of the necessity of good works to salvation , as they do , seeking secretly to root out this necessary point of doctrin to salvation , cleane out of the mindes of men . That they would not haue this doctrine taught , it is manifest ( though they woulde not haue their practise known ) in their Index expurg . in which they discover their minde : where shewing amongst other thinges what they wold haue blotted out in Froben . Index to S. Austines workes , they commande that these words must be blotted out , opera et si●con iustificent : sunt tamen ad salutem necessaria to 4. Col. 599. b. c. These wordes must be blotted out , for ( say they ) Augustinus hoc non dicit , sed tantum excludit merita iustificationis . Where first you see they like not this doctrin of the necessity of good works to salvation . Secondly you may see that heere secretly they acknoweledge , that S. Augustine is against them in the matter of iustification , excluding works to haue any strok in it , which publikely they wil not confesse .

Pap.

What tell you me of a blinde book ? I never heard of any such booke before , neither can I beleeue that there is anye such book .

Sc.

If you doubt of it , if please you , I wil let you see it . You might easily disprooue me , if it were not true , but the book is common now in every stationers-shop .

Pap.

S'r , pray sir , holde the Scholler with some talke , whilest I slip behinde , for I am weary of him .

Gall.

I will . I pray sir what pretence make they , thus to deale with ancient writers . For I doubt not , but they will pretende some reason of their doing .

Scholl .

So they doe , they pretende that heretikes corrupted the ancient writers , and that they do now , but rectifie them againe , but vnder the name of rectifying them , they make them speak as pleaseth them . Out of some writers they take out whole tracts , sometimes they alter their words , sometimes they leaue out words , sometimes they blot out words and sentences , lest forsooth they might be a scand●ll to the weake . But where is the other gentleman ?

Gall.

He is behinde .

Scholl

What s the matter ? Is he not well ? pray let vs stay for him . Stay pray , it may bee he may neede our helpe .

Gall.

Come , come , he would not haue vs stay ,

Scholl .

Why ? why ?

Gall.

Since you will needes know , you haue put him out of his humour . He stayes of purpose .

Scholl .

If that be the matter , I am not sory for that I haue done , & if he never come againe to his humor , he will never be the worse man : for albeit he said he woulde but repeate that which hee had heard amongst the Catholikes ( as hee tearmed them ) yet me thought he spake not without some passions , as if he had spoken from his hart .

Gall.

Well sir since wee are nowe come to Oxford I thanke you for your company ; when I first overtooke you , I thought I should haue a tedious iourney , but now me thinkes we haue pleasantlye passed our waye . And for this daies iourney I wil buy me a bible , that I may bee able to talke when I meete with the like company . For if I light in such company , as talke of the scripture , I sit mute , or leaue their company , because I haue read nothing in it .

Scholl .

I am very glad to heare you resolved to reade the scriptures , & although as yet , you meane to reade it , to no other purpose , then to be able to talke of it , yet if you read it , I doubt not but God will so blesse your labor therin , that it will worke better effects in you , then onlie abilitie to talke of it : for the reading of it , will bring you to the true knowledge of God , the knowledge of God to the loue of God , the loue of God to a desire to liue according to his will : Wherfore David saith , Ps. 19.7.11 Ps. 1119.9 Heb. 4.12 . the word of God converteth the soule , it giveth wisedome to the simple , and maketh the readers therof circumspect to avoide those things that are evill , it causeth men to be new men , it is mighty in operation . So that by one sermon of Peter , three thousand were converted . Acts 2.41 . Felix though a bad man , yet hee trembled when hee harde Paule preach of righteousnes , temperance , and the iudgement to come . Wherfore I pray neglect not the reading of it , Act. 24.26 Rom 1.16 1. Cor. 1.19 since it is the power of God to salvation , & aboue all conforme your life vnto it , and thinke not that it is an easie thing to attaine vnto the kingdome of heaven . They that will enter into the kingdome of heaven must vse violence , & constraine themselues to leaue off carnal and worldly affections , the way that leades to destruction is broad , Mat. 11.12 . Luk. 16.16 . and wide , and manie there are that enter therein , but the way that leades to heaven is straite and narrow , & few there are that enter therein . The ofspring of Adam is devided into fowre sorts . Consider the whole of-spring of Adam , what a number never come vnto the true knowledge of God , but vanish a way in ignorance and idolatry ; all these are in the way of perdition . An other sort there are , that know god and acknowledge al the articles of the Creede , yea the trueth of the whole Scripture , Titu. 1.16 . Ioh. 5.44 . Ioh 12.42.43 . yet denye God in their works , and these are also in the way of perdition . A third sort pretend they know God , & pretende an externall kinde of holynes , but deny the force of it , 2. Tim. 3.5 Ioh. 12.42.43 . loving the praise of men more then God , & these also are in the broad way of perdition . A fourth sorte there is , who knowe God , & in sincerity loue him , beleeue in him , and conforme themselues to liue according to his word & these only are in the strait way to heaven . Calvin . institut . lib. 3 cap 14. sect. 1. Wherefore as you tender your owne salvation , haue a care to vnderstand the worde , not that you may be able to talk of it , but that you may know how to rectifie your faith and life . Gall. 6.7.8 Gall 5.21.23 . For be not deceiued , God is not mocked , that which a man soweth , that shall he reape , hee that liveth aefter the flesh , that is , liveth carnally , shall be damned , but he that liveth after the spirit , that is , endevoureth to liue according to the wil of God shall haue life everlasting . And thus because we are nowe entred into the citty , I leaue to talke further of this point .

Gall.

Sir for your good advise , I thanke you most hartily , & this I promise you , that hereafter I will haue a greater care of these matters 〈◊〉 I haue had heretofore . Now sir if you wil doe me that favour , as to ride with me to my Iune , I shall accept it for great kindnesse , and I will bestowe the best wine in Oxford on you , & as good a pipe of Tobacco as ever you tasted .

Schol.

I am beholding to you for your good will , I praye pardon me at this time , I must to my Colledge , & thus I leaue you to the almighty .

Gall.

A due withal my heart .

FINIS .