GEntlemen , ye bee all heartilie welcome ; I pray you be as merrie as though your cheere were greater . If we had better , ye shoulde haue better : but I hope ye will bee content with such as God sendeth .

Our cheere doth content vs very well mine hoste , we do thanke ye for it .

I could teem it were better : but surely In-keeping is cold in sundry places ouer it hath bin , & that causeth vs to make slender prouision .

How shold that be , ther be as many trauellers as euer there were .

Oh sir , I graunt ye : but our chiefe gaine hereabout doth not stande in that , I haue knowne when a dozen or sixteene Gentlemen and wealthie yeomen haue met together , and made merrie foure or fiue daies , or a weeke , at cards or Bowls , as the time did serue . Nowe all good fellowship is laide aside , the worlde is waxen stark nought .

In deede that was a good helpe to Inne-holders , and I think it be much left in manie places , men waxe more couetous & worldlie , they haue not the care they had to maintain loue & friendship .

I cannot tell whether they bee more couetous : but there be so manie new-fangled Preachers , it is greate pittie that they be suffered : they marre all , for they destroie all good house-keeping .

It is verie true : I haue knowne as much meat spent in one house at a Christmas , as is nowe spente in three , a lamentable thing , the poore do rue it .

They keep small hospitalitie themselues , and not content with that , they preach and crie out against it in other men , I am vnlearned , but yet I think a preacher shold keepe good hospitality , and commend it in others .

Naie ye say true , for the apostle willeth them to be harberouse . 1. Tim. 3.

Ye doe not well , to soothe and vpholde mine hoste in his euill speeches , for he doth shewe him selfe to be a verie grosse and carnall man : he is al for the lusts & pleasures of the flesh , voide of the true knowledge of God , not hauing anie taste of spiritual things , one of those which ( as the Scripture saith ) make their bellie their God .

Yee mistake mine hoste , ye do him great wrong , to giue such seuere and sharpe sentence against him : I obserued and weied all his speeches , so farre as I can conceiue , he vttered nothing worthie rebuke : hee complaineth , and I warrant yée , not without cause , the Inholders haue smal resort , the good houskéeping is decayed , & men be new-fangled and ouer precise , do ye not think they are to be blamed , as those which do more hurt then good ? I suppose ye are not of that minde , but that ye doe allow Innekéeping to be a lawful and honest vocation , then ye must also allow them , to seek such gaine as that they may liue . They paie great hous-rent , bedding & other furniture is verie costly . In a worde , they buy all things deare . How shall they be able to keepe open there doores , if it be not lawful for men to meet togeather , to spende their time in honest recreation ? It doth nourish friendship . I am bolde to speake in defence of mine Host : If he had any worse meaning , I am deceiued .

I do not thinke that his meaning was worse then yours : neither doth that colour of words which you goe about to colour it with all , hide the nakednesse thereof : so farre off is it , from proouing his meaning or yours to bee good , hauing scarce a shew of reason .

If there bee scarce a shew of reason in my spéech , you may the more easely confute it . But it wil be harder for you to excuse your vncharitable & seuere damning of men , then for me to mainteine my saying .

Because I said mine Host is a carnal man , without the knowledge of God , one that is all for the lustes and pleasures of the fleshe , one of those which make their belly their God : Yee say I do vncharitably damn men , Ye did not heare mee pronounce a finall sentence vppon him : But if he continue in the case he is now in , there is no doubt . Let his owne wordes giue euidence . He said the worlde is waxed starke nought , because men do not meet togeather , to drinck and playe as they were wont . The Prophet saith , Wo be vnto those which call good euill , Isay 5.5 . and euill good . The Lorde condemneth drunkennesse , and gluttonie , Idlenesse , mispending the time , vaine speeches , railing , fretting , quarrelling , swearing , coueting other mens goods , vndoing and beggering Wife and Children , by spending their substance : all these thinges are rife , and ouerflow among those which do méet togeather at play : When the Lorde saith these things be euill , and mine Host saith the worlde is naught for learning them : Is it not plaine that he is a carnal man , and knoweth not God . You colour it , and saye Inholders sit at a great rent , and paie dear for all thinges , and they must liue . If you did know or consider , how cursed a thing it is to gather gooddes by such meanes , you woulde confesse it were a thousande folde better for to begge . He saith the Preachers which cry out against such things be new-fangled , is he not thereby apparantlie knowne to be a belly God . You would faine helpe him , and yee saye , if men be new fangled and ouer precise : are they not to be blamed ? Yes no doubt . But you must shew that it is to bee new-fangled and ouer precise , for to publishe the holy worde of God , against such filthie vices . Yee say all of yee , that good house keping doth decay , and the poore they rue it . The house kéeping which you mean , is that confused ryot , where there is aboundaunce of meate and drinke , spent euen as well as if it were cast vnto the Dogs . Some rich man doth keepe open house for twelue dayes , there gather all the idle vnthriftes , euen the scum & dregs of the people : There is such reuill night and day , that if a man that hath a godly mind come in , hee doth thinke he commeth into a little hell . The good creatures of God are wasted vpon most filthie personnes . Some man doth loose so much at Cardes , that his wife and his children do fare hardly a moneth after . The poore may rue that there is more cast away in one daye , then woulde serue them a whole weeke . The Preachers they keepe not Hospitalitie ( saith mine Host ) because they do not follow this order : and because sundry haue not the wealth to do it . And thus mine Host and those which be iumpe of his religion , doe cry out stil to haue the paunch filled . If they maye haue one which will make them good cheere , though hee neuer minister vnto them any spirituall food , yet they are aboundantly satisfied & contented . But if he bring the foode of the soule neuer so plentifully vnto them , and not able to doe the other , they make no reckoning thereof : Which doth most plainely shewe , that they are such as Christe spake vnto , Iohn . 6. which sought him because he had fedde their bellies . And as for the friendship which is gotten and nourished by meeting at play : It is small friendship when they fall to it by the eares . If they doe agree , yet the loue and friendship which is tyed togeather with such cordes , is but in the fleshe , and not that holye and spirituall loue which God requireth of Christians .

I did demaunde indeede , if they bee not to bee blamed , which are new fangled , and ouer precise , as those which doe more hurt then good ? I woulde it were not so easie to prooue as it is , that they doe more hurt then good , by beeing not onely ouer precize , and new fangled : but rashe and vndiscreet yea ( if yee will ) vngodly . And why ? Because they preach against such filthie vices and publishe the holy worde of God ? No Sir , that is good . Yee maye not put me to prooue them therefore to be in fault . No man wil saye they do hurt thereby . But this is vndiscreet , and worthy blame , that while they make sharpe inuectiues against the abuses , they vtterly condemn the things themselues which are indifferent and lawfull . Because some when they play , doe fret and sweare , they will alowe no man to doe it : Some doe for couetousnesse , reprooue those : Others doe it to passe away the time in honest recreation , not for anye hurt , Why shoulde they be blamed , now while they thus condemne the thinges them selues , and stay not in reproouing the abuses : it causeth questions and contentions , and breach of charitie among the people . This is a sore wound in a common wealth , Where the subiects are to be kept in vnitie one with an other .

The Iewes tooke vp stones to stone our sauiour Christ , and when hee aunswered and saide , Many good workes haue I shewed among ye from my father , Iohn . 10. for which of them doe ye stone me ? They had their excuse ready , For thy good workes we stone thee not , but for thy blasphemy , that thou being a man , makest thy selfe God . Such is the excuse and pretence which you and others make against the Preachers of the Gospell , let them preach the worde in Gods name , that is good : Let them also beate downe vice , wee can not blame them therfore : But we blame them that they deale rashlye , in condemning thinges lawfull . Well , let it be graunted , that to play at cardes and dice , is a thing of it selfe indifferent and lawfull : Yet it must ( before the vse therof can be free ) be demanded whether it be expedient , If there come much hurt by it many wayes ? Is it meete that men for their pleasure should vse it ? Will it beare vs out for a carnall recreation , to destroye the glorye of God , and the bodies and soules of men ? Shall men for that little good , which they imagine to reape thereby , sow and plant a multitude of shamefull vices ? But you put a difference , though some abuse playe , yet other vse it rightly : Who are they which vse it rightly ? Are they not the Godly and the wisest ? Shall not then their example harten and harden the other in their wicked abuses ? Is not this the common defence , such a man is a wise man , & a learned man , he plaieth , woulde he play if it were not good ? thus for their pleasure they throw down the honor of god , while they giue strength vnto others . Wee ought to forgoe a farre greater matter then pleasure , rather then vice should be encouraged , and mens soules destroied by your occasion . It is a foolish cauill which men vse against this : Many say they are drunkerdes & gluttons : many abuse their apparell : therefore we may not eate nor drinke , nor put on clothes , if it be so , least wee doe bolden them in their sinne . That is nothing like , for these thinges are such as can not bee spared : those other may be forborne yet no man the worse , there would be no questions nor contentions , nor breach of charitie among the people for this matter , if the multitude were not more zealous in the defence of their carnall lustes and pleasures , then they be for the honour of God : but when yée say the preachers , which beate down such things are vngodly , ye do therein very grosely ouershoote your selfe .

Indéed mine hoste , there be too many of those graue deuines , which bestowe mo howres vpon the ale-bench , at Mumchance or at Mawe , then they do in catechising their people . In deede such as these , are they , by whome you are most edified : they are other maner of men for your turne , then such as both by doctrine and conuersation ouerthrowe vngodlie riot : but I will leaue you in your wise iudgement , and heare what this Gentleman will answere .

I did not groselie ouershoote my selfe , in terming them vngodly , if there were any grosenes , it was in your vnderstanding , and not in my wordes : for it was not my meaning that they are wicked , onely because they condemne such thinges : they haue other faultes besides that , dothe not the Scripture pronounce them wicked , which disobeye their Prince , doe not these vtterlie refuse to obey the princes Lawes ? shall we terme them good , when the worde of God prooueth them to be euill .

The pharisees reason thus against Christe Iesus , this man is not of God , because he keepeth not the sabboth : this is a moste sure principle , that he which breaketh the Sabboth is not of God : they thought themselues cocksure , that he obserued not the sabboth , because he healed vpon it , but therein they erred . The papistes vse this , which is an vnfalllble trueth againste those which professe the Gospel : they be all heretikes and Sismatiques which seperate themselues from the Church of Christ : but when they shoulde prooue that those which forsake the Church of Rome , forsake the true Church , therein they are grauelled : the same kinde of reasoning , doe you and such as you are , vse against the ministers of Christe : they bee wicked say you , which disobey Princes : who denieth that ? the authoritie and power of Princes is of God . He that resisteth the power , Rom. 13. resisteth God : and so doth procure to himselfe damnation : But nowe shew your cunning in this point , to prooue that those are disobedient vnto Princes , against whom you speake .

There needeth no greate cunning for that matter , for the thing it selfe is manifest , doe not the Lawes of this realme command diuerse thinges , and are there not sundrie which refuse to do them ? therfore they be disobedient vnto princes .

I cannot tell howe great knowledge , ye haue in the law : but your skill in Logicke is small , and lesse in diuinitie , if ye mainteine and holde this for a necessary consequence or conclusion , they be disobedient vnto Princes , because they refuse to doe some thinges which are commaunded by the lawe . For put case a moste Godlye and Christian Prince , with graue and wise Counsellers doe set foorth and establishe some thinges which agree not with Gods word , and yet they suppose that the same thinges are agreeable vnto the word . For what Princes or counsellers are so wise , but that they may faile in some pointes ? Shall a man then which doth sée a thing commanded by the lawe , to bee againste the word , and therefore doth refuse to doe it , be counted disobedient to Princes ? Do not you know that which the Apostle teacheth . Actes . 4. We must obey God rather then men ? Doe not you knowe also , that although the thing be lawfull which is commanded , and a man through want of skil , or weakenes of conscience , doth feare & doubt that the same thing is euil , and yet doth it , that he condemneth himselfe in his deed , according to the doctrine which S , Paule teacheth . Rom. 14. ver. 23.

You charge me with vnskilfulnes , because of that conclusion which I made . But I doubt yee will not very easily disprooue the necessity of the consequence : for if these be not coniugata , Disobedience and to disobey , I know not what are . You colour the matter with this , that we must obey onely in things which are not repugnaunt vnto Gods worde : who shall be iudge in these cases , or to which part shal men giue credite ? All the wisest in the land , and cheefe in learning doe assemble in parliament , and with all the care and aduise they can , make and establish lawes . Now when they haue done , a few other , and farre inferiour vnto them , shal mislike , & vndo that which they haue done : These shall take vpon them to controwle the Nobility , the Iudges and Bishops of the land , and to be wiser then all they : would so many Godly learned Fathers set out anie thing that is not sounde ? It is very absurd , if men had any wisdome or discretion in them , for to discerne . If we shall not trust those other , shall we trust them ? why should not they be satisfied ? why should they be more precise or scrupulous , then their betters ? It is a wilfulnesse in them . It is pitty there is no sharper punishment to compell them .

I confesse that disobedience , and to disobey be Coniugata : but yet it is easie ynough to disprooue the necessity of your argument . For there is no disobedience , but where a man refuseth to obey , in thinges that are good : Where God enioineth no obedience , there can bee no disobedience by refusing . As for example , some prince doth command his subiectes to worship Idols , or some other thing which God doth forbid them : they refuse to do it , not of stubbernesse but of conscience towards God : will ye say they be disobedient ? but you sée well inough that this weapon wil not serue , and therfore yee are content to cast it down , and to retier your selfe into a strong hold , as you imagine . For who shall iudge of maters whether they be according to gods word ( say you ) which part shal we beleeue ? What are yee a Papist ? Yee runne into the same holde that they doe when they fight . They demand in like sort who shall iudge , & which part is worthier of credite ? If wee shall confesse your argument to be good and sound , how shall we denie it when it commeth from them bumbasted and set foorth with greater might ? For when you saye , all the wisest and learnedest , of Nobility , Iudges , and bishops haue done it , howe shall a fewe inferiour personnes controll them or be wiser then they ? Wil they alowe that which is not agreeable vnto Gods word ? Then the Papistes may say , when as their religion hath been established by all the wisest Princes , Bishops , and Counsellers , with so general consent of so many ages , not of one Realme , but assembled out of a great sort of Countries and Prouinces : How shall a fewe ( for the Nobles , Iudges , Bishoppes , and others in a Parliament holden in one kingdome are but a fewe vnto theire multitude ) controll them ? If twentie or thirty learned byshops in one Land assembled together , can not set foorth or allow any thing but that which is good , how shall fowre or fiue hundred choise Fathers out of all countries be ouerseene ? Oh sir , if this were a good reason , the Gospell might lye in the dust : If it bee good with vs , why shoulde it not be good when the Papists doe vse it ? Especiallye when they haue more right vnto it , because theire multitude hath beene farre greater . Howe wise you and manye other which vse this argument , doe take your selues to be . I pray yee did ye not vse it in the daies of Quéene Marie ? will you refuse to go vnto the masse ? will you be wiser then the Queene & the Counsell , & all the learned Byshops ? Doubtles in this point yee are very wise , that ye haue layd a foundation that will beare any frame . Yée may go through all times , and chaunges of religion . For whatsoeuer a Parliament doth set vp , yee will haue it by and by no further examined .

Let that be some difference , as in deede God bee blessed there is great difference , albeit the Popishe Byshops professed to do all by the word . Yet neuerthelesse you must proue that thirty or fortie learned Byshops looking only to the word of God , can not swerue in any thing from truth , before this can follow , that no part of their doings may be controwled .

Ye do not heere mee saye that no part of their doing may be controwled : but I say this , when so many graue lerned byshops haue decreed it , shal it be controwled by a few greene and light heades ? Can those which are nothing so many nor so learned , nor in no respect to be esteemed so much , see more then they ? It is like as if all the iudges in the Lande had agreed vppon a case , and an vtter barester or one which hath studied the Lawes , but two or three yeares ; shoulde controule them .

Yee liken it as if all the Iudges in the Lande had agreed vpon a Case , and then a verye young Studente in the Lawe , should take vpon him to controwle them all : when a fewe ( as you say ) greene heades , refuse to doe euerye thing that the Byshoppes conclude vppon . I knowe it is a straunge thing and incredible , that all the Iudges in the land should misse in a Case , and not bee able to sée that which some one of small knoweledge should see : but yet yee must knowe , that the Case is not altogeather lyke in Heauenlye matters , which men can not reache vnto by study & wit , as they do vnto earthly , but wher God doth inwardly lighten & teach by his spirit . Now God hath not tyed him selfe vnto multitude , nor vnto yeares , but where it pleaseth him to reueale : and therefore one poore man bringing reason and authoritie out of the holy Scriptures , is more to be esteemed , then tenne thousande great Bishoppes , standing vppon their consent without warraunt of the worde . The Priestes in the lawe boldened them selues with the like reason , to consult to strike Ieremias : Ierem. 18. The law ( say they ) shall not perish from the Priest , and counsell from the wise , and the worde from the Prophet . In like maner worldly wise men doe securelie blind them selues , hanging their faith vpon probabilitie , and not searching déeply into the matter . Againe yée doe falslye and vntruely in your comparison , to liken the one part as it were to al the iudges in the land , & the other to a yong student in the law . For , set the Papists a side , & the multitude of learned men against whom you speake , are more in number than al the bishops , Deanes , Archdeacons and bishops Chaplains in this land . For ye must looke vpon the faithfull seruaunts of God in other Lands . If yee respect learning , there are none in our Land ( but such as are impudent ) that wil compare with some of them .

Why should not we thinke there bee as manye learned men of our lande , as in any other ?

God be blessed there be great lerned men in our land , but yet I doubt not but they wil confes , that the Lord raised vp some in other Landes , whome he made the cheefe and principal Instrumentes to restore his Gospell , the fruite of whose labours , doth spread so farre , that in all Churches , they are famous : yea there is no one man which is a true minister of Iesus Christ , but he hath iust cause to blesse and praise God for them : Such was M. Luther , M. Caluine , M. Beza , M. Tremellius and others . I know in deede ther bee of our men , whom the Church might spare wel ynough for any good they euer did vnto it , which will not stick to compare with the best of these , & to take themselues rather to be their superiours . Other men wil so estéem of them also , when they haue approoued them selues to bee such faithfull seruauntes of Christ , and haue done the like good to the Churche , that those other did : in the meane time euery wise man will iudge as he findeth .

I know these whom you name are famous men , but what haue they to doe with our church ?

Haue you got that by the end also ? surely I cannot tell what other men may iudge : but in my iudgement , it is a very prophane and a very wicked saying . Is there any God but one ? any faith but one ? any Church but one ? Is not the whole Churche in all places in the worlde Gods familie ? Hath he not giuen one booke of the holy & sacred scriptures to teache and gouerne the same , & euery part therof ? Were not those men principall Instruments of the Lord , to expounde and open the mysteries of God vnto his church ? did they not teach & declare the counsels of God onely out of his word ? Is our church then the Church of Christe , and hath their doctrine nothing to do with it ?

I know right well , that their doctrine which they teach out of Gods word , which is the doctrine of faith , doth belong indifferently to the whole Church . Because as you say , there is but one Church , and one faith . But in some externall matters one Church may differ from an other . And in that respect , euery Church is not tied to the outwarde forme of the Church at Geneua , in euery particular . There be circumstaunces of persons , times and places which maye make some variaunce .

One Church maye differ from an other in some externall matter : let that be graunted , as I know not who doth deny it . Is that a sufficient cause for men to saye , what hath maister Caluine or maister Beza or others to doe with our Church ? Haue not the excellent seruaunts of God , taught that point also by the Scriptures , which you speak off , that churches may vary in some externall matters ? How then can it be saide that our Church hath nothing to doe with their doctrine ? I doe not speake as though we were to depende vppon men , further then they prooue their doctrine by the holy Scriptures . But when God hath raised vp speciall instrumentes , and made them lightes to his people , it muste needes proceede from a vile minde to saye , what haue they to doe with our Church ? Such mens fingers are to be looked vnto , as those which are not to bee put in truste with the Spouse of Christ . For this is out of all doubt , that as those other are manifested vnto the worlde to be rare and speciall seruauntes of God , for the seruice of his sonne , and saluation of his people : so these by demanding so disdainfully what they haue to do with our Church , giue manifest cause of suspicion , that they be none of Gods houshold . For either they must prooue that those excellent men , did not deale faithfully in Gods matters ( which they shall neuer be able to doe ) or else confesse themselues to be vntrusty . Who is so foolish , but that he can sée when such as with the mighty power of Gods spirit haue spread the light of the Gospell , and thrown downe the Kingdome of Antichrist , are reiected or little set by , that there is no faithful mind , especially when it is by those which them selues doe hurt and no good , to the furtheraunce of mens saluation .

Gentleman , by your patience , maye it please you to let me aunswere , not that I thinke you vnable to confute such friuolous speech , but because I am pricked , and can holde no longer . I woulde faine knowe who they are whome you meane , which do hurt , & no good , in our Church . If you meane the cheefe of the cleargy , God be thanked your slanderous tongue is not able to discredite them : they are well knowne to be graue , wise , learned , and Godly , and therefore of all others do the most good , and the least hurt in the Church . If yee meane the Puritans or Precisians , all wise men wil agrée with you : for in déede it can not be shewed that they do any good , but I am able to prooue , that they doe much hurt : for they be Scismatikes , and make diuision in the Church , a thing much to be abhorred of al godly mindes : they are the cause that there be so many Papistes , for what maketh them to be offended , and to refuse to come to the Churche , but this that we do not agrée among our selues , but these are not those whom you meane .