Duplyes of the ministers & professors of Aberdene to second answeres of some reverend brethren, concerning the late covenant. This text is an enriched version of the TCP digital transcription A20714 of text S100398 in the English Short Title Catalog (STC 71). Textual changes and metadata enrichments aim at making the text more computationally tractable, easier to read, and suitable for network-based collaborative curation by amateur and professional end users from many walks of life. The text has been tokenized and linguistically annotated with MorphAdorner. The annotation includes standard spellings that support the display of a text in a standardized format that preserves archaic forms ('loveth', 'seekest'). Textual changes aim at restoring the text the author or stationer meant to publish. This text has not been fully proofread Approx. 275 KB of XML-encoded text transcribed from 68 1-bit group-IV TIFF page images. EarlyPrint Project Evanston,IL, Notre Dame, IN, St. Louis, MO 2018 A20714 STC 71 ESTC S100398 99836240 99836240 499 2240951826

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Early English books online. (EEBO-TCP ; phase 1, no. A20714) Transcribed from: (Early English Books Online ; image set 499) Images scanned from microfilm: (Early English Books, 1475-1640 ; 1591:05) Duplyes of the ministers & professors of Aberdene to second answeres of some reverend brethren, concerning the late covenant. Forbes, John, 1593-1648. 133, [1] p. By Edw. Raban, Printed in Aberdene : 1638. Signed by John Forbes and five others. A reply to: The answeres of some brethren of the ministerie, to the replyes of the ministers and professours of divinitie in Aberdene. Reproduction of the original in the Henry E. Huntington Library and Art Gallery. eng Church of Scotland -- Early works to 1800. Answeres of some brethren of the ministerie, to the replyes of the ministers and professours of divinitie in Aberdene. Covenanters -- Scotland -- 17th century -- Early works to 1800. Aberdeen (Scotland) -- Church history -- 17th century -- Early works to 1800. eebo Duplyes of the ministers & professors of Aberdene, to the second answeres of some reverend brethren, concerning the late covenant. [no entry] 1638 136 46564 243 0 0 0 0 0 52.19 D The rate of 52.19 defects per 10,000 words puts this text in the D category of texts with between 35 and 100 defects per 10,000 words. 2005-11 Assigned for keying and markup 2006-03 Keyed and coded from ProQuest page images 2007-03 Sampled and proofread 2007-03 Text and markup reviewed and edited 2008-02 Batch review (QC) and XML conversion

DUPLYES Of the MINISTERS & PROFESSORS of ABERDENE , TO The second ANSWERES of some REVEREND BRETHREN , Concerning The LATE COVENANT .

If thou take foorth the precious from the vyle , thou shalt be as my mouth : Let them returne vnto thee , but returne not thou vnto them .

IEREM. 15.19 .

Honour all men : Loue the Brotherhood : Feare GOD : Honour the King .

1. PET. 2.17 .

Printed in Aberdene , by Edw. Raban , 1638.

coat of arms or blazon

TO THE UNPARTIALL READER .

IT may bee you haue not , as yet , heard the true relation of our proceedinges , and carriage , towards those two Reverend Brethren , who came latelie hither , to recommend to vs , and our People , the LATE COVENANT : Wee declare therefore to you , That we hearing of their comming , and intention , and beeing of a contrarie mynde , resolved , that before wee should giue consent , that they should preach to our People , wee would propone to them , by way of certaine DEMANDS , the chiefe reasons which made vs to bee averse from their proceedings ; promising to admit them to our Pulpits , if they should giue vs satisfaction , concerning the LATE COVENANT . Wee intended not to Print these DEMANDES at the first ; but afterwards considering howe much our People might bee confirmed by them , in that pious resolution which they haue , to continue in the obedience of the Lawes of this Church and Kingdome , concerning EPISCOPACIE , and those thinges which were concluded in PEARTH ASSEMBLIE ; wee thought good to put them to the Presse , but determined not to make vse of them , by divulgating them , except we saw that our people stood in present neede of them ; which indeede came to passe : for vpon Fryday , the twentie of Julie last , these Reverende Brethren came to this Towne , and having that same night receaved our DEMANDES in writ , they returned their Answeres vnto them on Saturday following , late in the evening : but they came not to our handes , who replyed vnto them , vntill Sunday in the morning . Neyther had we leasure to reade , or consider , vntill both the Sermons were ended in our Churches . Wherefore wee did meete together that day , at foure houres afternoone , that wee might peruse them . And at that same tyme , hearing that these Reverend Brethren had preached in audience of dyverse of our people , conveaned in the court of a noble man his lodging , not having obtayned our consent thereto , and in their Sermons had vsed a forme of Answering to our DEMANDES , which they did publicklie reade , affirming , that they had given full satisfaction to vs , in a written coppie of their Answeres , which they had sent to vs : and by that meanes , had laboured to disswade and draw our People from their obedience vnto the Articles of PEARTH , & the Lawes of this Kingdome ratifying them : wee knowing how insufficient their Answeres were , to giue satisfaction to anie , who would duelie ponder our DEMANDES , gaue licence to the Printer to divulgate them , and the next day did wryte our REPLYES to their Answeres , intending to put them to the Presse on Tuesday . But wee were earnestlie entreated by a noble Man , to send backe to them the copie of their Answeres , that they might revise and perfect them , & also to delay the printing of our REPLYES vntill Fryday following . Which wee willinglie granted . But wherefore this was desired of vs , you may conjecture ; seeing they neyther added , nor diminished , nor altered anie thing in their Answeres . Vpon the next Fryday at night , wee gaue our REPLYES to the Printer : and to these Reverende Brethren , who returned not to this Citie , vntill Saturday following , wee sent a copie of our Replyes in writ , on the Lords Day : vnto which we receaved not their Answeres , vntill they came from the Presse , to wit , on Tuesday the fourteenth of August : that is , eyghteene dayes after they had receaved our REPLYES . What successe these Brethren had in their Sermons , which they preached here , vpon two severall Lords Dayes , it is sufficientlie knowne : neyther haue they reason to talke so much of it as they doe , in their Preface to the Reader . The first of these Dayes , some few who were thought to bee that way inclined before , subscryved their COVENANT : But the next Lords Day , they scarce prevailed with anie at all . And a great many , who heard them both these Dayes , professed , that they returned from their Sermons , more averse from the COVENANT , than they were before . Now good Reader , wee present to thee our REPLYES , to their second Answeres ; which for shortnesse cause , wee haue called DVPLYES : wee pray you consider them vnpartiallie . And if you reape anie benefite by perusing them , let it not be ascrybed vnto vs , but to the invincible force of divyne Trueth . Wee conclude with Zorobabell , saying ▪ Blessed bee the GOD of Trueth : And let all the People shout , and saye , Great is Trueth , and mightie aboue all thinges .

TO OUR REVEREND BRETHREN Mr ALEXANDER HENDERSON And Mr DAVID DICKSON .

THat your Answeres , Reverende and Deare Brethren ; haue not in anie degree satisfied vs , wee impute it not to your weaknesse , whom wee know to bee able Men , and much exercysed in the matters debated betwixt vs : but wee impute it to the weaknesse of your cause , and to that inabilitie which is in all men , as well as in you , to beare out agaynst the Trueth . Wee are sorie that yee are not so respectiue , and favourable , in your judgement of vs : for yee playnlie declare in your Preface , that yee suspect vs of prejudice : and that for two reasons . The first is , that our Demandes , which yee conceaved had beene meerelie intended for you , were published before your comming in Print : as also , that our REPLYES were Printed before we receaved your last Answeres to them . Whence yee conclude , that wee were rather ayming at victorie , moved thereto by prejudice , than at satisfaction by searching of the Trueth . This reason is grounded vpon a mistaking : for altho our Demandes at the first , were intended for you onlie , yet afterwardes we resolved to Print them , as also our REPLYES , ( the Printing whereof did nowayes depend vpon your second Answeres , ) not for loue of contention , nor desire of victorie , ( GOD knoweth ) but for such reasons , as wee haue expressed in our Preface to the vnpartiall Reader , whom wee hope wee haue satisfied in this poynt . Your other reason is , that the groundes of your Answeres to vs , haue proven satisfactorie to others ; who for Age and Learning , are pryme men of this Kingdome : and to whom our modestie will not suffer vs , to preferre our selues . Farre be it from vs to be so presumptuous , as to preferre our selues to so manie Learned and worthie Divynes : and as farre bee it from vs , to measure the soliditie , and sufficiencie of your Answeres , by the Habilities or Induments of these , who haue acquiesced in them . If this your reason were good , the Papists might more probablie accuse vs of prejudice , ( as indeede they vnjustlie doe ) because your Answeres to our Argumentes , haue proven satisfactorie to manie thousands of those , who for profunditie , and subtilitie of wit , are inferiour to none of the World : but wee regarde not this slender motiue , remembring these wordes of our Saviour , I thanke Thee , O Father , Lord of Heaven and Earth , because Thou hast hid these thinges from the Wyse and Prudent , and hast revealed them vnto Babes : even so , O Father , for so it seemed good in Thy sight . Besides , if yee compare the Divynes , Ancient and Moderne , who are of our judgement , with these who favour your opinion , eyther in number , or in the excellencie of their gifts , ye shall find that in this , the advantage is greatlie ours . In the meane tyme yee shall know , that wee can bring farre better reasons to free our selues of prejudice , than these which yee haue brought agaynst vs : to wit , the soliditie of our Argumentes , which haue put you to such straytes , ( pardon vs to say that , which everie one who hath eyes , may see ) that oft-tymes yee doe not so much , as attempt to answere them , beeing glad to passe them by , with the show of an Argument in contrarium , or some other lyke shift : our humble and earnest attestations , in calling GOD , the onlie competent judge ; as witnesse of our sinceritie , in the inmost thoughtes of our soule ; our seriouslie professed Resolution , to concurre with you , if wee should get satisfaction from you : the Modestie , Ingenuitie , and Peaceablenesse of our wrytings to you , and on the contrarie , your too great disdainfulnesse and asperitie in your second Answeres ; bewraying not onlie the weaknesse of your myndes , farre by our expectation , but also the weaknesse of your cause to vnpartiall Readers , who ascrybe this to the pungent force of our Answeres ; judging , that they haue made you some-what more cholericke , than you were before . To this wee will adde the great reluctance , which some of the most Judicious Subscribentes did finde in their Consciences , before they subscrybed your Covenant ; together with the Limitations , and Reservations , wherewith they subscrybed it ; evidentlie arguing their strong apprehension , of the dangerous ambiguitie and haske sounding of the wordes of the Late Covenant : so that even these who are now joyned with you , haue beene much affrighted with those thinges which terrifie vs . As for your Protestation in the ende of your Epistle , that yee can no more bee brought to our mynde , than yee can bee drawne from the profession of our Religion , as it hath beene reformed , sworne , &c. Altho this importeth no small prejudice , possessing and over-ruling your myndes ; yet looking to the invincible force of that Trueth which wee mayntayne , wee even yet hope that at last it shall prevaile with you ▪ especiallie considering that our controversie is not concerning the reformed Religion ; wherevnto wee as sincerelie adheare as anie who-so-ever , but concerning the equitie of that forme of Covenant which yee latelie made . Wishing you and all others , to adheare truelie and sincerelie , to the same true Religion ; and to all the dueties which in it are recommended to you : wee most humblie , and earnestlie pray the Almightie GOD , to pittie His Church in this Kingdome , and to vnite all our heartes in Trueth and Peace , in these most dangerous dayes : which although they bee to you dayes of gladnesse , as yee professe , yet to those who loue the peace of Sion , and the tranquillitie of this Kingdome , they are Sad and Melancholious dayes , in respect of the blacke clowdes of GOD'S wrath , hanging over our heads , & threatning vs with stormes of fearfull Calamities : which wee pray the Almightie GOD to avert .

THE FIRST DVPLY .

IN our Disputes agaynst the Papistes , ( which haue bene frequent , and by GOD'S grace not vnfruitfull , ) as wee haue learned , that to multiplie objections agaynst the Trueth , is a thing easie , as yee say , but fruitlesse and vaine : so also wee haue learned , that to multiplie Evasions , agaynst solide Arguments brought for the Trueth , is a thing no lesse easie , but altogether vnprofitable : which wee pray you take heede to . How forcible are right wordes ? but what doeth your arguing reproue ? IOB 6.25 .

2. Yee say , that our objection , agaynst your calling , and the warrand of your comming to vs , was framed & published in Print , before it was proponed vnto you , and ere your Answere could bee had . Indeede our DEMANDES were at the Presse at your comming , that they might be in readinesse ; but were not published , before your selues in your Sermones did publicklie reade them , and dispute agaynst them , in audience of such of our People as were there present for the tyme ; albeit that written copie of them was delyvered to you onlie , and not at that tyme communicated by vs to anie other .

3 , Your Authoritie which ye acclayme , is neyther from his Majestie , nor warranded by Act of Parliament , nor by the Lordes of his Majesties Counsell , nor by anie Nationall Synode of this Kingdome , nor by anie Judicatorie established in it . And both in your first Answere , as also now agayne yee professe , that yee came not hither to vsurpe the Authoritie , of anie Civill or Spirituall Iudicatorie . As for your multitude , ( which yee call allmost the whole Kirke and Kingdome ) it beeing destitute of Authoritie foresayde , maketh no warrand of ordinarie calling . Therefore , yee seeme to pretende an extraordinarie calling from GOD , alleadging an extraordinarie necessitie at this tyme , which truelie wee see not in anie such degree , as may deserue and warrand so great a change from the receaved order , which is publicklie by Lawes established in this Kirke and Kingdome . That saying of the Apostle , Let vs consider one another , to provoke vnto loue , and to good workes , which yee alleadge for your extraordinarie imployment , importeth not an extraordinarie calling , but an ordinarie duetie , to bee performed by all Christians , according to their Callings .

4. The Word of GOD , and the Canons of Councells , doe so permit to Pastors , the care of the whole Kirke , as they must remember to doe all thinges , Decentlie and in Order , and not to interpone themselues in their Brethrens charges , and agaynst their will . And praised bee GOD , there was not anie Combustion , Errour , or Confusion , in these places of our charges , as yee doe alleadge : Neyther did our People stand in neede , of such helpe from you . And if yee meane the Combustion of our Nationall Kirke , wee doe thinke your remeede not convenient ; as beeing , in our judgement , not agreeable to the right way of Trueth and Peace .

5. Whereas yee alleadge , that if some members of this Kirke , had not cared more kyndlie , in this tyme of common danger , than others haue done , the whole bodie had beene ere now dangerouslie , if not desperatelie , diseased ; Wee answere , That wee most heartilie wish , anie disease of this Church , to bee tymouslie prevented and cured . But withall wee wish this to bee done without a rupture , and such a dangerous division : chieflie seeing our Church is not infected with anie such Erroures , nor is in such dangers , as may giue just occasion , of so fearfull a division : which in it selfe is a sore disease , and from which in holie Scripture , wee are often , and verie earnestlie dehorted . Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria , in his Epistle to Novatus , recorded by Eusebius , Lib. 6. Historiae Cap. 37. worthilie sayeth , You ought rather to haue suffered anie thing what-so-ever , for avoyding of cutting asunder the Kirke of GOD : and Martyrdome for keeping the Kirke from Schisme , is no lesse glorious , than which is suffered , for not committing Idolatrie . And in my opinion also it is greater ; for in suffring Martyrdome for not committing Idolatrie , a man suffereth for one , even for his owne soule ; but heere a man suffereth Martyrdome for the whole Kirke .

6. Yee affirme , that we haue no reason to complayne of your carriage , heere towards vs , in respect yee for your Sermones preached to our People , made choyse of vacant houres , that they might attende the ordinarie tymes of Worship . But indeede this satisfieth not our complaynt : for we justlie complayned of your preaching to our People , without our consent , at anie houre ; and of your labouring , to make them Subscrybe the LATE COVENANT , before yee had given satisfaction to vs , concerning the equitie of it .

7. Yee reprooue vs for these harmlesse wordes of a Confoederation , and Negatiue Confession . That little Confession , was long agoe called Negatiue , à parte majore . And as for that other word , it is well knowne to all those who are expert in our Mother Tongue , and in the Latine , that Covenanting , and Confoederation , doe signifie one , and the same thing : and therefore , both these wordes are alyke respectfull , in our judgement . Whereas yee say , that your COVENANT is made with GOD , and doe call it His COVENANT : and lykewyse for justifying your swearing , and Subscrybing thereof , doe bring some places of Scripture , wherein mention is made of a COVENANT , & Oath , betwixt GOD and His People ; wee shall then allowe the same name , and respect vnto your Covenant , when yee shall make it manifest , that your Covenant in all poynts therein contayned , hath no lesse warrand from the written word of GOD , than that Covenant which the Israelites did sweare in the dayes of Ioshua , ( IOSHVA 24. verse 25 ) and in the dayes of Jehojada the Priest , ( 2. KINGS 11. verse 17 ) and in the dayes of King Asa , ( 2. CHRON. 15. verse 15 ) and that which is mentioned by ISAIAH , 44. verse 5.

8. As wee are still informed , that some haue fled the Countrey , and some haue Subscrybed for feare ; so no Pastors in our knowledge haue gone to Court , for the causes alleadged by you . Wee doe not presume to judge of the Consciences of men , and wee wish you to judge more charitablie , of these Reverende Prelates , than yee doe . The occasion of this present storme was pretended to bee the Introduction of the Bookes of Service , and Canons , and the high Commission . These causes are now removed ; and yet the storme continueth so vehement , ( as yee seeme to grant ) that the Bishops haue just feares warranding their flight , to saue their persons ; which wee judge to bee too great violence , for anie such cause , agaynst persons in so sacred a calling .

9. Wee shall assuredlie , ( by the grace of GOD ) still contribute , as yee desire , our prayers , and all other meanes agreeable to our consciences , for extinguishing of the present Combustion . And for that effect , everie one of vs shall secretlie , and humblie , mourne before the LORD , and shall search and trye our wayes , and turne vnto the LORD . And as wee haue alreadie humbled our selues publicklie , with Fasting and Mourning for that effect , so are wee readie in tyme to come , to doe the lyke , when it shall bee indicted or allowed by Authoritie , according to the established order in this Kirke and Kingdome . Yea , also wee are readie to joyne with you in the Late Covenant , so soone as wee shall receaue satisfaction to our consciences , concerning the lawfulnesse thereof ; which as wee haue protested before , so doe wee yet protest , and professe .

10. The Reasons which yee touch in your first Answere , for proving that wee might without just offence to anie , joyne with you in Subscrybing the Covenant , are sufficientlie answered in our first Replye . For , First , It is not yet discerned in a Nationall Assemblie , whether your Interpretation added to the Olde Covenant , bee in all poynts sound or vnsound ; and therefore wee haue reason to thinke , that this New Covenant , is not substantiallie one with the Olde : chieflie seeing it addeth to the Olde Covenant , not onlie your Interpretation of it , but also a promise of forbearance of the practise of Pearth Articles , vntill they bee tryed in an Assemblie ; and lyke-wyse a Band of Mutuall Defence , by force of Armes , made without the King's privitie and consent . Secondlie , Your inference of Mutuall Defence , agaynst all persons what-so-ever , drawne from the words of the Olde Covenant , is meerlie invalide . For nothing was pactioned or promised in the olde Covenant , without the King's Majestie his privitie ; but the Band of Mutuall Defence , agaynst all persons what-so-ever , in this your New Covenant , is without the command or consent of the King , to whom onlie the Sword is given in this Kingdome , immediatlie by GOD. See to this purpose the words of King IAMES the sixt of blessed Memorie , in his booke entituled , The Law of free Monarchies , in the English edition of his royall workes , at London , Anno 1616. Pag. 206. That which yee adde concerning the Generall Band , is also little to the purpose , for that Band had the King's warrand , where-as his Majestie doeth now forbid your Covenant . Thirdlie , Altho the former Oath subscrybed , did appertayne onlie to the persons of the subscrybers , all the dayes of their lyues ; yet you haue in your Interpretation , extended the Obligation thereof , to the present and succeeding generations in this land , without anie warrand eyther from Publicke Lawes , or from the wordes of the Oath it selfe : which also is a Substantiall Difference betwixt that Oath , and your Late Covenant . Where-as yee alleadge , that the warrand which the Olde Covenant had from King , Counsell , and Assemblie , remayneth virtuallie , and was never yet discharged ; wee answere , it remaineth not , and that because King JAMES of blessed Memorie , disalowed that little Confession , in respect of the inconveniencie of the multitude of Negatiues , as is cleare by his Majesties wordes , published in the Printed summe of the conference holden at Hampton Court , Anno 1603. And no former Act of Counsell , made in the tyme of anie former King , doeth sufficiently warrand our consciences to Subscrybe anie Oath now , which seemeth to vs to bee disagreeable to the Act of Parliament ; and which our present Dread Soveraygne LORD , the King's Majestie , by his publicke Proclamations ; and other Intimations of his Royall pleasure , forbiddeth vs to Subscrybe . And as for the Acts of these two Assemblies , which did injoyne subscription to the sayde Little Confession , they were Relatiue to the King's Mandate , which is now expyred by his owne declaration , and with his Royall breath , according to that common Maxime : Morte mandatori : expirat mandatum . Extra . De officio & potestate judicis delegati , Cap. 19. relatum est in glossa . For the injunction was given for that tyme onlie , as wee conceaue , beeing warranded by the wordes of these Assemblies .

11. These that were suspect of Papistrie amongst vs , haue not beene vrged by vs to Subscrybe that Negatiue Confession ; but onelie some Articles relatiue to the National Confession . And as for such as receaue degrees in Philosophie , in our Colledges , they doe sweare onlie to the true reformed Religion , as it is publicklie professed and preached , according to GOD'S word , in this Kirke of Scotland , and established by publicke Authoritie , with a generall Abjuration of all , both Popish , and other Haeresies contrarie thereto . And those who receaue degrees of Divinitie , doe more expresslie sweare to the Orthodoxe determinations of the Ancient Catholicke Kirke , as is evident by the words of the Oath , whereof the tenor followeth .

Ego A. B. sancte & ex animo coram omniscio & omnipotente Deo confiteor & profiteor fidem eam quae de sancta Trinitate , & Mediatore Emmanuele à sanctis Patribus in sex primis O Ecumenicis conciliis , contra Pauli Samosateni , Sabellij , Arij , Macedonij , Apollinaris , Nestorij , Eutychetis , & Monothelitarum haereses proposita explicata & defensa est , esse vere Christianam , orthodoxam , Catholicam , ex sacris Canonicis scripturis haustam ; Symbolum quoque sancti Athanasii vt similiter orthodoxum me recipere . Item me ex animo detestari haeresin Pelegianam , ejusue reliquias Semipelagianas , & eas haereses quae Imaginibus aut vlli merae creaturae religiosam concedunt adorationem . Item , me monarchiam Papae Romani in vniversam Ecclesiam , & ejus cùm in spiritualibus tùm in temporalibus primatum , & judicij Papalis in religionis controversiis infallibilitatem , tanquam antichristiana deliramenta rejicere , omnesue etiam alias haereses tum olim invectas , tum recens sub Romani Pontificis tyrannide natas anathematizo . Agnosco Spiritum sanctum in Canonicis V. & N. Testamenti scripturis per Prophetas , Evangelistas , & Apostolos loquentem , esse nobis vnicum , supremum , infallibilem , & ordinarium omnium de fide vitaue Christiana controversiarum Iudicem . Et S. scripturam Canonicis V. ac N. Testamenti libris comprehensam esse vnicam , certam , stabilem , perfectam , totalem regulam fidei vitaeque Christianae , tum quoad textum , tum quoad interpretationem authenticam seu divinae authoritatis ; & hanc quae hodie in Ecclesia Scoticana palam & publica authoritate ex sacro DEI verbo proponitur de credendis , sperandis , amandis , doctrinam esse orthodoxam , Catholicam . Et ipsam hanc Ecclesiae Scoticanae doctrinam , me ad extremum vsque vitae meae halitum constanter per DEI gratiam professurum & pro mea vocatione defensurum sancte promitto , juro . Insuper almae huic Vniversitati cui hunc scholasticum ( docturae Theologicae ) honorem debebo , me nunquam ingratum futurum , sed semper ei ex animo fauturum , ejusque commoda , piè , seriò , sedulò , fideliter promoturum sancte etiam coram eodem omniscio & omnipotente DEO promitto , juro .

Wee , who were graduated heere , did sweare this Oath , and now , for satisfaction of others , we all doe sincerelie attest God , that wee doe , and shall adheare to it , constantlie , all the dayes of our lyfe .

12. Yee doe agayne object to vs , that wee haue presumed to disallow your Explanation of the Late Covenant , which hath beene publicklie allowed by his Majesties Commissioner : adding thereto , that wee will haue the Kingdome guiltie of Combination agaynst Authoritie , and that wee will not haue the King to bee satisfied ; whence yee inferre , that our dealing is more suteable to Papistes , and such incendiaries , than for vs ; who desire to proue good Patriots , in vsing all meanes of pacification . But certaynlie yee wrong vs : for what was done by his Majesties Commissioner , anent your Declaration and Explanation of your Covenant , is evident by his Grace owne letter , latelie written to vs of that matter ; whereby his Grace hath declared , that he was nowayes contented therewith , and that his Majestie hath not receaved anie satisfaction thereby . The same is evident also , by his Grace owne Manifesto , prefixed to our DEMANDS , your first Answeres , and our first REPLIES ; reprinted at Edinburgh , by his Gr. speciall command . To the which Manifesto , or Declaration of his Majesties High Commissioner , wee remit the READER , for his full satisfaction , in this , and some other poyntes of your ANSWERES .

13. Wee intende not to beare vpon you ▪ and your associates , ( who take to your selues the name of the Kingdome , heere in this your Answere ) guiltinesse of Combination agaynst Authoritie , as wee haue protested and declared , in the ende of our former REPLYES : but in the tendernesse of our Consciences , wee doe vprightlie signifie to you our scruples , which hinder vs from approving or Subscrybing your COVENANT . And wee are so free of that odious imputation , of taking part with anie Incendiaries , or imitating anie proceedings of that kynde ; as wee heartilie wish , and shall endeavour , to proue good Patriots , and Christians , in such evident loue of Trueth and Peace , as it shall bee manifest , that wee neyther haue beene , nor shall bee Authors , or Fomenters , of this miserable Combustion .

14. Yee are sorie , yee saye , That wee should account your Covenant , to bee a Confoederacie agaynst the Trueth ▪ and yee affirme , that yee labour with men , to joyne with you in sinceritie , and not through humane feares . Now , REVEREND BRETHREN , in the feare of GOD , laying aside all humane feare , wee doe sincerelie declare , that if wee thought your Covenant , in all poynts agreeable to the Trueth , wee should make no opposition thereto . And wee doe heartilie wish , that according as yee doe heere professe , so indeede no man bee threatned with worldlie terroures , to goe your way . Wee ayme indeede , at the same ende which yee professe , to wit , at the Trueth and puritie of Religion , and peace of Church and Kingdome : But wee are not as yet perswaded , that your way is lawfull and convenient , for attayning to this ende .

THE II. DVPLY .

WEE desire all troubles to bee prevented by allowable meanes , but are not perswaded to reckon in that number , this your Covenanting , and Conventions , which wee esteeme to haue beene the occasion of much trouble . As concerning your question , where-vnto yee so earnestlie requyre our Answere , to wit , whether wee would haue receaved the Bookes of Service and Canons , or vsed such meanes , as yee haue vsed for avoyding them ? yee shall know , that if we had beene of your judgement , concerning those Bookes , wee would neyther haue receaved them , nor yet vsed anie meanes vnlawfull for opposing of them , ( such wee thinke your Covenant and Conventions , prohibited by Authoritie to bee , vntill wee bee better informed ) but would haue vsed humble supplication to his Majestie , for removing those evills : and if we had found no remeede thereby , would haue resolved , according to the practise of Ancient Christians , eyther to flee his Majesties dominions , or else patientlie to suffer what-so-ever punishment it should haue pleased him to inflict . In the meane tyme , concerning those Bookes of Service and Canons , wee rest content with his Majesties gracious Proclamation : and if heere-after our opinion of them shall bee asked by Authoritie , wee shall sincerelie and vnpartially declare it .

2. Your urging of vs agayne , with the saying of King JAMES , forceth vs to manifest his meaning by his owne wordes , perhaps contrarie to your wish or expectation . That most wyse and religious King , neare the beginning of his Booke , concerning the Powder Treason , wryteth expresselie , that such a rysing vp of the bodie , pro aris , & focis , & pro patre patriae , ought to be according to everie ones calling and facultie . Which wordes at least doe import , that the moving of the Politicke bodie , in whole , or in part , ought not to bee agaynst the will and direction of the head . This is cleare by that which the same King hath written in his Booke entituled , The true Law of free Monarchies , where by manie strong Arguments , hee doeth at length demonstrate , that in a free . Monarchie , ( such hee proveth this his Ancient Kingdome of Scotland to bee ) the Subjects for no occasion or pretext what-so-ever , may take Armes , without power from the King ; and much lesse agaynst him , whether hee bee a good King , or an oppressour ; whether godlie , or vngodlie ; altho the People haue might and strength humane . And comprehendeth the summe of all his discourse concerning this matter , in these words following . Shortlie , then , to take vp in two or three sentences , grounded vpon all these Argmentes , Lond . edit . anno 1616. pag. 200.201 . out of the law of GOD , the duetie & alleadgeance of the people to their lawfull King : their obedience , I say , ought to bee to him , as to GOD'S Lievtenant in Earth , obeying his commands in all things , except directlie agaynst GOD , as the commands of GODS minister ; acknowledging him a judge set by GOD over them , having power to judge them , but to bee judged onlie by GOD , whom to onlie hee must giue count of his judgement . Fearing him , as their judge ; loving him , as their Father ; praying for him , as their Protectour ; for his continuance , if hee bee good ; for his amendement , if hee be wicked ; following and obeying his lawfull commands , eschewing and fleeing his furie in his vnlawfull , without resistance , but by fobbes and teares to GOD , according to that sentence vsed in the primitiue Church in the tyme of the persecution , P●eces & lachryma , sunt armae Ecclesiae : that is , Prayers and Teares , are the armes of the Church .

3. Ye tolde vs before , and now againe doe repeat it , that the first part of the Act of Parliament 1585 , is relatiue to another Act in Queene Maries tyme , forbidding Bands of Manrent . Wee knew that sufficientlie before yee tolde it , and passed by that part of your Answere , as not pertinent for our Argument : so that yee needed not now agayne , to put vs in mynde of it . But wee may justlie challenge you , for not answering that which wee objected , concerning the second part of that Act ; for it reacheth farther , than that Act made in Queene Maries tyme , and of new statuteth and ordaineth , That in tyme comming , no Leagues or Bands bee made amongst his Majesties Subjects of anie degree , vpon what-so-ever colour or pretence , without his Highnesse or his successoures privitie and consent , had and obtayned thereto ; vnder the payne to be holden & execute as movers of sedition and unquyetnesse , &c. Wherevnto also is consonant the 131 Act made in the 8 Parliament of King James the sixt , Anno 1584 ; where it is statuted and ordayned by the King and his three estates , that none of his Highnesse Subjectes of what-so-ever qualitie , estate , or function they bee of , spirituall or temporall , presume or take vpon hand to convocate , conveane , or assemble themselues together , for holding of Councells , Conventions , or Assemblies , to treate , consult , and determinate in anie matter of Estate , Civill or Ecclesiasticall ( except in the ordinarie judgements ) without his Majesties speciall commandement , or expresse licence had and obtayned to that effect , vnder the paynes ordayned by the Lawes and Acts of Parliament , agaynst such as vnlawfullie convocate the Kings Liedges . And where-as yee finde fault , that wee dispute from the Act of Parliament , and that wee doe preciselie adheare to the letter of the Law , wee pray you to consider , that the nature of this question leadeth vs to the Act of Parliament . Beside , it seemeth strange , that yee should challenge vs in this kynde , since for justifying of your vnion ( as yee call it ) yee haue amassed a great number of Acts of Parliament , and inserted them in the booke of your Covenant . Wee omit the missapplying of these Acts , which were made agaynst Poperie , and not agaynst all these thinges , which yee doe now resist as Popish . Neyther can wee perceaue , how these Acts of Parlament adduced by you , to justifie your vnion , proue that poynt . More-over , some of these Acts cited by you , as namelie , the 114 Act made in Parliament Anno 1592 , in so farre as it is agaynst Episcopall Government , and all other of that sort , are expreslie rescinded by a posterior Act made in Parliament Anno 1612. How could yee in a legall Dispute , for justifying your vnion , produce rescinded Acts , as if they were standing Lawes , and passe by the posterior Acts , which are yet Lawes standing in vigour , whereby these other Acts are rescinded ? 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. Constitutiones tempore posteriores , potiores sunt his quae ipsas praecesserunt . ff. de constitutionibus Principum , L. 4.

4. Wee doe adheare in our former Replye , not onlie to the letter , but also ( according to our conception , without prejudice of better information ) to the verie reason and lyfe of the Law . The sentence cited by you , to wit , XII . Tabularum fragmenta . de officio consulis . Regio imperio duo sunto : iique praeundo , indicando , consulendo , praetores , judices , consules appellantor : militia sumùm jus habento , nemini pavento . Salus populi suprema lex esto . Salus Reipub. suprema lex esto , or the safetie of the Common-Wealth should bee the chiefe Law , serveth for a good direction to Rulers , in making or changing of Lawes , or in judging according to them : whence in the Lawes of the 12 Tables , these wordes are applyed to this purpose . This is observed by King James of blessed Memorie , in his often mentioned booke of the true Law of free Monarchies : For albeit , sayeth hee , that I haue at length proved , that the King is aboue the Law , as both the author and giver of strength thereto ; yet a good King will not onlie delyte to rule his Subjects by the Law , but even will conforme himselfe in his owne actions therevnto , alwayes keeping that ground , that the health of the Common-Wealth be his chiefe Law . And where he seeth the Law doubt some , or rigorous , hee may interpret or mittigate the same , lest otherwyse summum jus bee summa injuria : But this sentence doeth no wayes warrand Subjectes to refuse obedience to standing Lawes , agaynst the will of the Supreame Law-giver , who is a speaking Law . For this were to open a doore to all confusion , which would not prooue the safetie , but the ruine of the Common-Wealth . As for that which yee sayde before of the Generall Band , and Confession of Fayth , and which heere agayne yee doe alleadge for your Covenant , wee haue signified our opinion thereof , in our preceeding DVPLYE . The responses and verdicts of Juris-Consults concerning your Covenant , are not knowne to vs , nor yet the reasons & inducements , which moved them to giue out their declaration in your favoures , as yee alleadge .

Of OBEDIENCE , due by Subjects , to AVTHORITIE .

5. The poynt touching Royall Authoritie , is not so full of thornes and rockes as yee giue out , if men would bee pleased vnpartiallie to holde the playne and patent way , layde before vs by holie Scripture , and by Orthodoxe Antiquitie , and by manie Eminent Divynes in the reformed Church , and learned Politickes ; which wee shall heere make manifest , after the vindication of those three famous Theologues , ( Whitaker , Bilson , and Rivet ) whom yee would haue the Reader to esteeme favourers of your opinion .

6. Doctor Whitakers wordes agaynst William Raynold , translated into English , out of the Latine Edition at Oppenheme , Anno 1612. Pag. 51. are these , Hee relateth the tumults and troubles , which were raysed for Religion , in Germanie , France , and Boheme : as if that one thing were sufficient to condemne them , because once they did oppose themselues , and resisted the violence offered to GOD'S Trueth , and to themselues : Where-as notwithstanding , Fayth , Oath , and publicke Edicts , and finallie the Lawes themselues gaue them warrand to doe the same . I will not say more of this matter , which is nowayes pertinent to the present purpose , especiallie seeing not onlie their just Apologie , but also the Edicts of the Princes themselues haue liberated them from the cryme of rebellion . By these words of Doctor Whitaker , which yee haue cited , the Reader may easilie perceaue , that hee doeth nowayes mayntayne or allowe taking of Armes by Subjects , without warrand of the publicke Lawes , and approbation of the Prince ; but excuseth what was done in those warres , by the allowance of the Lawes and Edicts of Princes .

7. So also Doctor Bilson , in his Booke entituled , The true difference betwixt Christian Subjection , and vnchristian Rebellion , printed at Oxford Anno 1585 , Pag. 382. in the wordes cited by you , declareth evidentlie , that hee speaketh of such Republickes & States , as haue defences warranded by fundamentall Covenant , in that Governement . But what is that Doctors mynde , concerning the duetie of Subjects , in a free and absolute Monarchie , is evident by his owne words in that same booke , Pag. 380 , where disputing agaynst a Jesuit , hee sayeth ; Warre for the Catholicke Religion , is both lawfull and honourable , you say : you must adde , of the Subjectes agaynst their Prince , or else you range cleane besides our question . Wee stryue not what causes may leade Christian Princes to make Warre on their Neyghboures , but whether it bee lawfull or tollerable for the Subject , to beare Armes agaynst his naturall and absolute Prince . You proue , which is nothing to our purpose . But , Sir , in this enterpryze , the person must bee respected as well as the cause : Bee the cause never so just , if the person bee not authorized by GOD to draw the Sword , they bee no just nor lawfull Warres . Private men may not venter on Warres , vnlesse they bee directly warranded by him that hath the Sword from GOD. And agayne in that same booke , Pag. 502 , Our Saviour for teaching his , that they should bee brought before Kings and Rulers , and put to death , and hated of all men for His Name sake : addeth not , as you would haue it , and hee that first rebelleth , but , hee that endureth to the ende , shall bee saved ; and agayne , Not with violence restrayne them , but in patience possesse your owne soules . This is the way for all Christian Subjects to conquer Tyrants , and this is the remedie provyded in the New Testament agaynst all persecutions , not to resist powers , which GOD hath ordayned , lest wee bee damned : but with all meeknesse to suffer , that wee may bee crowned . And Pag. 513. hee showeth , that manifolde formes of Common-Wealthes , make diverse men speake diverslie of the Magistrates sword . And Pag. 518. hee pleadeth , that the Subjects in England , haue not that lawfull warrand , to draw the sword without consent of their Prince , as the Germanes haue without consent of the Emperour ; and this discourse hee prosecuteth in some following pages .

8. The same is the meaning of Doctor Rivet , ( as wee take it ) in his Commentarie vpon the PSALME 68 ; where he distinguisheth betweene an absolute Principalitie , and such a Principalitie as is onlie Conditionall , Pactionall , Conventionall . Of this second sort are to bee vnderstood , his words of just and necessarie defence . But of the absolute Principalitie speaking in that same place , hee recommendeth to Subjects , rather suffering of Martyrdome . And this to bee his meaning , appeareth more clearlie by his last declaration concerning this question , in his late Treatise entituled , Jesuita Vapulans : where beeing pressed by an adversarie , hee handleth this question of purpose . In the meane tyme , wee wonder verie much , that yee haue not directlie answered to these remarkeable wordes of Doctor Rivet , alleadged by vs in our Replye , wherein hee playnlie averreth , that the doctrine of Buchanane , Knox , and Goodman , concerning Subjects resisting their lawfull Princes , is not approved by anie sound Protestant . Wee expected from you , a full and particular Answere ; and now agayne we would gladlie heare , whether yee approue the judgement of Rivet , concerning that doctrine of these wryters , or not .

9. Thus having vindicated these three divynes , which yee alleadge for you , wee come now to those Testimonies which wee promised , for clearing of the playnnesse of the way touching Authoritie . First , it is evident by holie Scripture , that it is vnlawfull for Subjects in a Monarchicall estate , ( such as is this Kingdome of Scotland ) to take Armes for Religion , or for anie other pretence , without warrand and power from the Prince , and Supreame Magistrate . For the Scripture teacheth vs , that the SWORD belongeth onlie to the KING , and to them who are sent by him , ROM. 13. 1. PET. 2.13.14 . That wee ought to keepe the King's commandement , and that in regarde of the Oath of GOD , ECCLES. 8.2 . And , that wee should bee subject , not onlie for wrath , but also for conscience sake ; because the Powers that bee , are ordayned of GOD : Who-so-ever , there-fore , sayeth S. PAVL , resisteth the Power , resisteth the ordinance of GOD : And they that resist , shall receaue to themselues damnation , ROM. 13. In the wordes of the Apostle S. PAVL , there is a remarkable opposition betwixt Subjection and Resistance , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ; implying , that all militarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , whether Defensiue , or Offensiue , if it bee agaynst the Superiour Power , which GOD hath set over vs , is forbidden . In lyke manner we reade MATTHEW 26.52 . that all they that take the Sword , shall perish with the Sword . Now certayne it is , that in a Free Monarchie , Subjects haue not the Sword from GOD , except by the hand of the King , to whom onlie GOD hath immediatelie given it . And therefore who-so-ever taketh the Sword without his warrand , hath just reason to feare the foresayde warning of our Saviour . Manie other places of Scripture might bee adduced to this purpose , which for brevitie wee omit , and doe proceede in the next rowme to some testimonies of ancient Fathers , & other wryters .

10. Tertullian , in his Apologeticke , Chap. 30. and 33. and 37. telleth vs , that the ancient Christians in his tyme , altho having an heathen and persecuting Emperour , did honour him , as chosen of GOD , and second from GOD , and first after GOD ; and did choose rather to suffer , than to make resistance by force of Armes , altho they lacked not number , and strength to doe it .

11. The lyke example haue we in that renowned Thebaean Legion of 6666 Christian Souldioures , called Agaunenses , from the place of their suffering , who without making resistance , as they had strength of hand to haue done , suffered themselues rather to bee slayne , for their Christian Profession , by the Officers of Maximian the Emperour , executors of his cruell commandement agaynst them . This fell out in the 18 yeare of Diocletian , as Ado Viennensis wryteth in his Chronicle , which was the yeare of GOD 297 , as Cardinall Baronius reckoneth in his Annalls . And of that their Christian cowrage , and pious resolution , Venantius Fortunatus , an ancient Bishop of Poictiers , hath left vnto vs these Encomiasticke lynes , in the second Booke of his Poëms , Biblioth. Patr. Tom. 8. Edit. 4. Pag. 781.

Queis , positis gladiis , sunt arma è dogmate Pauli , Nomine pro CHRISTI dulcius esse mori . Pectore belligero poterant qui vincere ferro , Invitant jugulis vulnera chara suis .

12. Gregorie Nazianzen , in his first Oration , speaking of the Persecution by Julian the Apostate , when the Christians were moe in number , and stronger in might of hand , to haue made open resistance , if they had in their consciences found it agreeable to their Christian Profession , declareth playnlie , that they had no other remedie agaynst that Persecution , but patient suffering for CHRIST , with gloriation in CHRIST . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

13. S. Ambrose , having receaved imperiall commandement , to deliver the sacred Houses , or Churches , to bee possessed by the Arians , declareth what hee thought convenient to bee done in such a case ; to wit , neyther to obey in that which hee could not performe with a good conscience , nor yet to resist by force of Armes . His wordes to the people , ( CONCIONE 1. contra AVXENTIVM ) are these ; Why , then , are yee troubled ? I shall never willinglie leaue you . If I bee compelled , I can not gayn-stand . I may bee sorie , I may weepe , I may sigh . Agaynst Armes , Souldiours , the Goathes also , my Teares are Armes : For such are the Guardes of a Priest . Other-wayes I neyther ought nor may resist . a a Quid ergo turbamini ? volens nunquam vos deseram , coactus repugnare non n●vi . Dolere potero , potero flere , potero gem●re ; adversusarma , milites , Gothos quoque , Lachryma mea arma sunt . Talia enim munimenta sunt sacerd●ti● . Aliter nec dib●a nec possum resistere . And in the second Booke of his Epistles , and 14 Epistle , to his Sister Marcellina , speaking of that same purpose , hee sayeth ; b b Non ego mi vallabo circumfusione populorum . — Rogamus , Auguste , non pugnamus . — Tradere Basilicam non possum , sed repugnare non deb●● . I shall not fortifie my selfe with a multitude of people about mee . — Wee beseech , O EMPEROVR . we fight not . — I may not deliver the Church ; but I ought not make resistance .

14. Such also was the doctrine and practise of manie other great Lightes , which shyned in the dayes of Julian the Apostate , and in the dayes of the Arrian Emperoures , and Gothicke Arrian Kinges .

15. S. Augustine , wryting of a lawfull Warre , acknowledgeth that onlie to bee lawfull , which hath authoritie from the Prince . For it is much to bee regarded , Interest enim quibus causis , quibusque authoribus homines gerenda bella suscipiant : ordo tamen ille naturalis , mortaliam paci accommodatus hoc poscit , vt suscipiendi belli authoritas , atque consilium penes Principem sit . Aug. Lib. 22. contra Faustum , Cap. 75. ( sayeth hee ) for what causes , and by whose authoritie , men vndertake Warres : But that naturall order , which is accommodated to the peace of mortall men , requireth this , That the authoritie and counsell of vndertaking Warre , bee in the power of the Prince .

16. The imperiall Lawes doe say the same , ff. Ad legem Juliam majestatis . Leg. 3. Eadem lege tenetur , & qui injussu Principis bellum gesserit , delectumve habuerit , exercitum comparaverit . Et Cod. vt armorum vsus inscio Principe interdictus sit . Nulli prorsus nobis insciis , atque inconsultis quorumlibet armorum movendorum copia tribuatur . These are the words of the Emperoures Valentinian and Valens . Et Cod. de re militari , Leg. 13. Nemo miles . Nemo miles vel sibi vacet , vel aliena obsequia sine nutu principali peragere audeat , &c.

17. BODIN , in his first Booke de Republica , cap. 10. Num. 155 & 156. ( Pag. 244. Edit. Latin . 4. Vrsell . Anno 1601. ) reckoneth among the proper rights of Majestie , the right and power to make Warre : and this hee showeth to appertayne , in a free Monarchie , to the Prince onelie .

18. To this meaning sayeth Peter Martyr ; As concerning the efficient cause , it is certayne that Warre may not bee made without the authoritie of the Prince . For Paull sayeth , that hee beareth the Sword : therefore hee may giue it to whom hee willeth , and may take it from whom hee willeth . Loc. Com. Class . 4. Cap. 16. § 2. And a little after , to wit , § 7. hee reciteth and commendeth a saying of Hostiensis to the same purpose .

19. CALVIN , in the fourth Booke of his INSTITVTION , in the last Chapter of that Booke , disputeth the Question at length , and by manie strong Argumentes evinceth , and concludeth , that it is no-wayes lawfull for Subjectes , to resist their Prince by force of Armes ; whether the Prince bee Godlie , and just ; or vngodlie , and vnjust in his conversation , and commaundementes : and , that no-thing remayneth to Subjectes in such a case , but to obey , or suffer . Where vnderstand , that Fleeing , is a sort of Suffering . Neyther are his wordes subjoyned in the 31 Sect. to wit , I speake allwayes of private men , &c. contrarie to this . For first CALVIN in this Dispute , indifferentlie vseth the names of private men , and Subjectes : And therefore , in the 33 Sect. at the beginning of it , hee tearmeth those of whose duetie hee disputeth , Subjectes . And in-deede , who-so-ever is a Subject , is also , in respect of the supreame Ruler , Hugo Grotius , de jure belli & pacis , lib. 1. cap. 4. num. 6. a private man . Although Magistrates , who are vnder the King , bee publicke persons , in respect of their inferioures ; yet being considered , with relation to him that is Supreame , 1. PET. 2.13 . they are but private . As in Dialecticke , an intermediate genus , altho in respect of the inferiour species , it bee a genus ; yet in relation to the superiour genus , it is but a species . All POWER OF GOVERNING , is so subjected to the supreame Power , that what-so-ever is done agaynst the will of the supreame Ruler , is destitute of that Power ; and consequentlie , is to bee esteemed for a private act . For , as wee are taught by the Philosophers , ORDER can not bee , but with a reference to that which is first . Averrces ● ▪ Metaphys . comment . 6 ▪ Hence KING IAMES , in his Booke Of the true Law of free Monarchies , PAG. 206. affirmeth , that all the people are but private men , the authoritie beeing allwayes with the Magistrate . Secondlie , this is manifest from the verie wordes of CALVIN , in that same 31 Sect. for there hee excepteth none from the necessitie of obeying , or suffering , when Kinges command thinges vnjust ; but onelie popular Magistrates , appoynted for restrayning the licentiousnesse of Kinges . Nowe , where such Magistrates are erected , it is certayne , that a King , in such a Common-wealth , hath not the supreame power : For if hee had the supreame power , none could force him , since an Inferiour can not force his Superiour . This can not bee done , but onelie by him , who is Superiour , or at least aequall . Thirdlie , this is cleare also by the examples adduced by CALVIN ; namelie , the Lacedaemonian Ephori , the Romane Tribunes , and the Athenian Demarchi . When the Ephori were set vp in Lacedaemon , the Kinges of Lacedaemon , were but Kinges in name , See Hugo Grotius , de jure belli & pacis , pag. 66 where hee citeth sundrie ancient Authors . and had not the Supreame power , as it is confessed by the Learned . So when the Tribunes had their full power in Rome , the Supreame power was in the people : and in lyke manner it was in Athens , , when the Demarchi had power . Therefore , from this no-thing can bee inferred for the lawfull resistance of Subjectes , to a Monarch , or King , properlie so called . Fourthlie , CALVIN applying this to the Kingdomes that nowe are , sayeth no more , but that peradventure the three Estates assembled in Parliament , haue that fame power , which the fore-mentioned Ephori , &c. had . Heere it is to bee marked , that hee sayeth onelie , peradventure it is so : which can bee no warrand to a man's conscience , in a matter of so great importance . For hee that resisteth his Superiour by force of Armes , should not onelie thinke , that peradventure hee hath power , but should bee assuredlie perswaded , that hee hath power so to doe . When there is no more said , but that peradventure such a thing is , it may bee as reasonablie sayde , Peradventure such a thing is not . Neyther doeth hee giue this power even peradventure , but to the the three Estates assembled in Parliament . Hence the learned RIVET , speaking of CALVIN his mynde in this place , Rivet , in his Iesuita vapulans , cap. 13. sayeth , that hee giveth no power to people over Monarchs , properlie so called . The same also is observed , concerning CALVIN his mynde , by Albericus Gentilis , in his third Royall Dispute .

20. The same doctrine also is delivered by King JAMES of blessed Memorie , in his Booke entituled The true Law of free Monarchies , by Hugo Grotius in his first Booke de jure belli & pacis , CAP. 4. by Leonhartus Hutterus , in his common places , Loc. 32. CAP. 3. Iohannes Gerhardus in the 6 TOM. of his common places , in his Treatise de magistratu politico , NVM. 483. where hee discourseth accuratelie of this matter : Zepperus in his 3 Booke de Politia Ecclesiastica , in the last Section of the 13 Chapter , PAG. 573. Edit. Herborn . 1595. Albericus Gentilis , in his regall disputations , disput. 3. de vi civium in Regem semper injusta . Iohn Bishop of Rochester , in his worke written agaynst Bellarmine , de potestate Papae in rebus temporalibus , LIB. 1. CAP. 8. CLASS . 2. Where hee adduceth a clowde of manie moe Authors . M. Antonius de Dominis , in his Booke called Ostensio errorum Francisci Suarez , CAP. 6. § 27. Ioannes Angelius Werdenhagen , I. C. in his Politica generalis , LIB. 3. CAP. 10. QUEST. 14.

21. By these Testimonies wee intende not to lay vpon you , or anie of our Countrey-men , anie imputation , or to take vpon vs to giue sentence concerning their proceedinges : but onlie beeing invited heereto by your last Answeres , wee thought it our duetie , to signifie to the Reader , that manie Ancient and late Famous Wryters are not of that opinion , eyther to thinke the question touching Authoritie , so full of Rockes and Thornes , as you call it , or yet to favour such a defensiue taking of Armes , as you thinke to bee alleadged by Whitaker , Bilson , and Rivet .

22. Now to prosecute what remayneth of your Answere : whereas yee say , that when yee justifie your Covenants and Conventions , yee meane not onlie the last and most remote endes , but the nearest and immediate ; wee pray you tell vs what yee meane by the nearest and immediate ende : if yee meane the object it selfe , ( which the Schoole-men call finem intrinsecum & proximum ) then the lawfulnesse and equitie of the matter , vowed and promised in the Covenant , is all one with the goodnesse of the ende of it . Whence wee inferre , that seeing the matter promised by you in this your Covenant , to wit , your Mutuall Defence agaynst all persons , none excepted , is in our judgement vnlawfull , and forbidden by a lawfull Authoritie ; the ende , of your Covenant is meerelie evill : but if by the nearest ende yee meane any thing which is diverse from the object , then wee still affirme agaynst the last part of your first Answere , to our second DEMAND , that Conventions , and Covenants , & all other actions , are to bee esteemed & judged of , first or principallie by the equitie of the object , and then by the goodnesse of the ends of it , whether they bee fines proximi , or fines remoti .

23. Wee doe not joyne with the Papistes , blamers of our Reformation , ( as yee seeme to beare vpon vs ) because they hate and oppugne our reformed Religion , which wee loue and defende . Neyther doe wee take vpon vs to censure the proceedinges of our Reformers : but wee stryue , by the grace of GOD , so to carrie in our owne tyme , and to walke wyselie in a perfect way , as our adversaries the Papistes , may get no advantage to pleade for their vnwarrantable doctrine and practises , by anie pretence of our example .

THE III. DVPLY .

IN your third Answere , passing lightlie from our REPLYE , yee fall into some vnexpected digressions , concerning the Service Booke and our thoughts thereof : we esteeme it a matter beyond the compasse of humane judicatorie , to sit vpon the thoughts of other men . As for those outward expressions , which yee alleadge vpon some of vs , of not seeing erroures in that Booke , or groaning for it ; yee shall vnderstand , that such multiplicitie of Popish erroures , as was alleadged by some of you , to bee in that Booke , was invisible to some of vs . Altho to enter in a particular examination or consideration , of everie poynt and sentence in that Booke , is not now tyme nor place . Neyther did anie of vs professe groaning for that Booke in particular , but for an vniformitie of Divyne Service throughout this Nationall Kirke , and a more perfect forme than wee yet haue , that the publicke Service were not permitted to the severall judgements , and private choyse of everie Minister and Reader . Which also was thought convenient by the Nationall Assemblie of the Kirke of Scotland , holden at ABERDENE , Anno 1616.

2. Whether that Service Booke ( now discharged ) contayneth anie Innovation of Religion , or anie thing contrarie to the Protestant Religion , ( as yee alleadge ) wee doe not dispute now . But we doe assuredlie belieue , the pietie and sinceritie of his Majesties intention , ever to haue beene , and still constantlie to bee , as it is graciouslie declared by his Majesties late PROCLAMATION . And wee are certaynlie perswaded , that his Majestie hath given order , to discharge all the Actes of Counsell , made anent the Canons , and Service-Booke ; and are crediblie informed , that They are discharged by Act of Counsell , [ at Holie-Rood-House , the fift of Julie last ] according to the order given by his Majestie . Also , wee see no such just cause of Feare , as may import your alleadged Necessitie of Covenanting ; seeing his Majestie will not presse anie thing of that nature , but in such a fayre and legall way , as shall satisfie all his loving Subjectes : and , that hee neyther intendeth innovations in Religion nor Lawes ; as wee declared in our former Replye , to which yee haue not sufficientlie answered . Neyther was it necessarie , for removing of anie just Feares , that his sacred Majestie should disallowe that Service-Booke , as yee requyre ; but it was sufficient , to discharge it , in manner foresayde .

3. Yee doe conclude your Answere vnto our thirde Replye , with an vncouth and incredible Position , whereof yee bring no proofe at all , but onelie this bare Assertion ; Who-so-ever professe them-selues , to bee perfectlie satisfied with the PROCLAMATION , doe proclayme in the eares of all the Kingdome , that they are better pleased with the Service-Booke , and Canons , than with the Religion , as it hath beene professed in this Land since the Reformation . This your Thesis , is so evidentlie weake , that we neede no more for the over-throwe there-of , but to oppose there-vnto this our playne and vndenyable Antithesis ; Who professe them-selues to bee perfectlie satisfied with that PROCLAMATION , where-by the Service-Booke is discharged , & the Religion professed in this Land since the Reformation , is established , doe proclayme in the eares of all the Kingdome , that they are better pleased with the Religion professed in this Land since the Reformation , than with the Service-Booke , and Canons .

THE IV. DVPLY .

YEE alleadged a before , and now agayne doe affirme , that wee haue mistaken your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant , as if it had beene given out Judiciallie by you , and , as if yee had intended to enforce it vpon others . To free your selues of this imputation , yee sayde in your first Answere , that yee intended onlie To make knowne your owne meaning according to the mynde of our reformers , and in charitie to recommend it to others . Hence wee inferred in our REPLYE , that yee ought not to obtrude your Interpretation vpon vs , nor molest anie man for not receaving the same . To this now yee say in your second Answere ; Altho you neyther vse threatnings , nor obtrude your Interpretation vpon vs , yet wee must pardon you , if yee match vs not with the greatest part of this Kingdome , in whose name , by all fayre meanes yee recommend it to vs . Truelie , Brethren , wee are not offended with you , for preferring the judgement of so manie , to our judgement , who are but few in number : neyther neede yee to craue pardon of vs for this . But concerning these fayre meanes , and that force of reason whereby , yee say , yee recommend your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant to vs , pardon vs , if the experience wee haue , both of your wrytings and proceedinges , make vs to oppose this your assertion . For in your wrytings wee expected indeede , but haue not found that force of reason , whereof yee speake : and as for the proceedinges of those who haue subscrybed your Covenant , wee of all men haue least reason to belieue that they vse no threatninges , seeing wee heare daylie so much their threatnings agaynst our selues .

2. Where-as for clearing of that which yee sayde before , concerning the mynde of our Reformers , yee affirme , that The authoritatiue judgement of our Reformers is evident , not onlie by the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament , but also by the bookes of Discipline , Acts of Generall Assemblies , and by their owne writs : First , wee marvell , how yee can say , that the private writings of Master Knox , and others , who with him were instruments of that great worke of Reformation , haue publicke authoritie to obliedge the Subjectes of this Kingdome . The legislatiue , and obligatorie power of the Church , is onlie in Synods or conventions of Bishops and Presbyters , and not in particular persons expressing their myndes apart . Next , this Church in the former age , by abrogating the office of Superintendents , established in the first booke of Discipline , hath declared , that the statutes & ordinances contayned in those bookes , are not of an authoritie perpetuallie obligatorie , but may bee altered or abrogated by the Church , according to the exigencie of tyme . The same lykewyse is manifest by the abrogation of summarie excommunication , which this Church did abolish , altho it was established in Generall Assemblies , wherein Master Knox , and other Reformers , were present . Wee neede not to insist much in this , seeing so manie of you , who are Subscribents , mis-regarde the ordinances of our Reformers , praefixed to the PSALME BOOKE , concerning the office of Superintendentes , or Bishopes , Funerall Sermones , and set formes of Prayer , which they appoynted , to bee publicklie read in the Church . Hence the Reader may perceaue , that ye haue no warrand for your Interpretation of the Olde Covenant , from the authoritatiue , and obligatorie judgement , of the Reformers ; seeing yee can not ground it vpon the Confession of Fayth ratified in Parliament . As for those other Meanes mentioned by vs , to wit , Scripture , Antiquie , and consent of the Reformed Churches ; that they truelie make for vs , and agaynst you , the vnpartiall Reader may perceaue , by these our Disputes .

Whether or not Episcopacie , and Pearth Articles , bee abjured in the Late Covenant .

3. As for the second Miss-taking mentioned by you in your Answere , wee did showe in our Replye , that in your Covenant , Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are abjured . And for proving of this , wee asked of you , what yee meaned by the recoverie and libertie of the Gospell , as it was established and professed before the fore-sayde Novations ? and what is that period of tyme , to which your wordes there haue reference ? that is , Whether it bee that period of tyme , when the Service-Booke , and Booke of Canons , were vrged vpon you ? or if it bee the tyme , when Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , were receaved in this Church ? But , truelie , your Answere to this , is no-wayes satisfactorie , nor hath so much as a showe of satisfaction . For yee are afrayd to expresse that period of tyme , lest yee bee forced to graunt , that which wee before objected . And yet your speach bewrayeth you : For seeing yee answere onelie to that which wee sayde concerning the last of these two periods , wee collect , that by the recoverie of the libertie and puritie of the Gospell , as it was established before the fore-sayd Novations , yee meane the reducing of the Policie of this Church , vnto that estate in which it was , before Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , were established . And hence wee inferre , as wee did before , that in that part of your Covenant , yee condemne and abjure Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , as contrarie to the Puritie and Libertie of the GOSPELL .

4. Yee seeme to answere , that in that part of your Covenant , yee condemne not PEARTH Articles , and Episcopacie , but those Abuses and Corruptions , which haue accompanied them ; such as the Superstitious observing of dayes , cessation from worke on those dayes , Feasting , Guysing , and the grosse abuses , which haue entered in the Sacrament , vpon kneeling before the Elementes : and , that in respect of these Abuses , wee who allow Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , may sweare without prejudice of our cause , to recover the Puritie and Libertie of the Gospell , as it was established , and professed , before these Novations .

5. But , first , let anie indifferent , or vnpartiall man , who knoweth the state of our CHVRCH , judge , whether or not it bee lyklie , that your Vowe , of the recovering the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell , as it was before Episcopacie , and Pearth Articles , were introduced , importeth onelie an Intention of removing of the Consequentes of Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , and not of the removing of those thinges them-selues ? Truelie , wee are perswaded , that they who knowe the state of this CHVRCH , and your mynde , concerning these thinges , will thinke this your Glosse of your owne wordes , to bee violent , and excogitated for cluding our Argument .

6. Secondlie : Who can thinke , that yee , and others , Contryvers of the Late Covenant , who condemne Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , as much as yee doe the consequentes of them , haue onelie vowed , to remoue their Consequentes , and not remoue them-selues ?

7. Thirdlie , is it possible , that anie can promise and vowe , to labour for the curing of so manie , and so great pretended diseases of this Church , ( wee meane these abuses which yee say , haue accompanied Pearth Articles and Episcopacie , ) and in the meane tyme promise , and intende nothing concerning the removing of the causes of them ?

8. Fourthlie , how can wee , without great prejudice of our cause , acknowledge , that these grosse abuses mentioned by you , haue entred in the Sacrament , by kneeling before the Elements ? ( yee should haue sayde at the receaving of the Elements ) for seeing Kneeling at the receaving of the Sacrament , is confessed by vs to bee a matter indifferent ; if in our Oath , wee acknowledge these grosse abuses to haue entred in vpon Kneeling , it will probablie follow in the judgement of some , and in your judgement , who recommend this Oath vnto vs , it will follow infalliblie , that Kneeling for the evill consequences thereof , ought to bee removed . Doe yee not heere cunninglie deale with vs ? For altho yee vrge vs not , as yee say , to sweare and promise the removing of Kneeling , yet yee vrge vs , by your owne confession , to promise the removing of these abuses occasioned by Kneeling : which beeing acknowledged by vs , yee will then take vpon you to demonstrate , that Kneeling it selfe ought to bee removed : for yee holde it for a Maxime , That thinges indifferent , beeing abused and polluted with Superstition , should bee abolished . Wee can not sufficientlie marvell , how yee who are of this mynde , can say to vs , that wee who allowe Pearth Articles and Episcopacie , may sweare to recover the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell , as it was before , &c. For yee meane , that wee may doe so , without prejudice of our cause . But wee haue alreadie showne , that according to your judgement and doctrine , if wee sweare that which yee would haue vs to sweare , our cause shall bee much prejudged , yea , vtterlie lost .

9. Fiftlie : Howe can wee sweare , to remoue these grosse abuses entered in vpon Kneeling , as yee alleadge ; seeing wee thinke , that no such abuses haue entered in vpon it ? Yea , our people , trye them who please , will show , that they are as free from all erronious conceits , concerning that holie Sacrament , as anie living in these Congregations where Kneeling is daylie cryed downe .

10 Sixtlie , as for these abuses and corruptions , reckoned vp by you , as the consequentes of the observation of Festivall dayes , to passe by that which before wee marked concerning Kneeling , to wit , that the granting of this were a great prejudice to our cause , some of these are not abuses at all , as , cessation from worke . Agayne , some of them haue not come in vpon the observation of the Articles of Pearth , as Guysing , and Feasting , ( yee meane excessiue Feasting , for otherwyse it is not an abuse ) which onlie fall foorth on Christ-mas Feastivitie . For sure wee are , that these abuses haue not come by the anniversarie commemoration of CHIST'S Nativitie , in the which by the ordinance of Pearth Assemblie , all Superstitious observation , and Prophanation of that day , or anie other day , is prohibited , and appoynted to be rebuked . This the Reverend and learned Bishop of EDINBVRGH , in his defence of the Act of Pearth Assemblie , concerning Feastivities , PAG. 63. proveth , because ( sayeth hee ) wee haue lacked preaching vpon Christ-mas day , these fiftie seaven yeares by-gone , in our Church , yet Ryot , Prophanenesse , Surfet , and Drunkennesse , haue not beene wanting .

11. Seaventhlie , as for Superstitious observation of dayes , ( whereof hitherto wee haue had no experience ) wee marvell , that yee can reckon it , amongst the Consequentes of the observation of dayes : seeing in your judgement , it is all one with the observation of dayes . For yee thinke the observation of anie daye , except the LORD'S Day , to bee , in the owne nature of it , Superstitious , and Will-worship .

12. As for the last part of your Answere to our Argument , concerning the fore-sayde period of tyme ; where yee alleadge , that manie Corruptions , of Popish and Arminian doctrine , haue entered in the Kirke , &c. wee aske you , Whether yee designe heere an other period of tyme , than yee did before ? or if yee designe onlie this selfe-same period of tyme , ( in the which both the fore-sayde Practicall Abuses , and these Doctrinall Corruptions , haue entered into this Church , accompanying , a yee alleadge , Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie ? ) Or , last of all , If yee designe no period of tyme at all ? If yee take you to this last , professing , that yee haue heere designed no period of tyme ; then yee answere not our Argument , where-in wee particularlie , and expresslie posed you , concerning that period of tyme , vnto which your wordes cited oft before , haue reference . If yee designe the same period of tyme , then looke howe yee can escape our praeceeding Argumentes , concerning that period of tyme .

13. But if yee designe an other period of tyme , then wee aske you , Whether it bee prior , or posterior , to the period of tyme alreadie mentioned ; to wit , the tyme praeceeding the bringing in of the Articles of Pearth ? Yee can not say , that it is posterior to it : for yee complayned of Arminian Corruptions , even before Pearth Assemblie ; branding some of the most Learned of our Church , with that Aspersion . And of Popish Corruptions of Doctrine , yee complayned , when Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , were established . For the Doctrines , of the lawfulnesse and expediencie of these thinges , are , in your judgement , meerlie Popish , and Antichristian . Neyther can yee say , that it is prior to the fore-sayde period of tyme : for the tyme praeceeding the in-bringing of Pearth Articles , comprehendeth all that tract of tyme which interveaned betwixt the Reformation , and Pearth Assemblie .

14. But wee will yet more evidentlie convince you , by two other Arguments , drawne from that part of your Covenant , of which wee are now speaking , and from the wordes of this your Answere , to our fourth REPLYE ; for first in your Covenant yee promise , and also will haue vs to promise with you , To forebeare for a tyme , the practise of Pearth Articles , vntill they bee tryed , as yee say , in a free Assemblie . But this forbearance importeth a manifest prejudice , and wronging of our cause : for this is a fore-acknowledgement , eyther of the vnlawfulnesse , or else of the inexpediencie of the matters , concluded in Pearth Assemblie . For wherefore ought wee in this exigence of the Church , to forbeare the practise of Pearth Articles , rather than of other Rites of the Church , except for some greater evill comprehended in them ? This will appeare more evident , if wee shall consider the reason alleadged by you , Pag. 17 , wherefore wee ought now to forbeare the practise of these Articles : to wit , because in the case of Scandall , and sensible feare of Superstition , wee ought to doe so . Now this case of Scandall is not in your judgement , a temporarie , but a perpetuall consequent of Pearth Articles . For yee thinke it will ever scandalize the Papists , as if we were approaching to them : Lykewyse yee thinke everie one of them , and especiallie Kneeling , to bee inductiue to sinne , ex conditione operis , by the verie nature and qualitie of the worke it selfe . Whence it followeth , that they are necessarilie and immutablie scandalous ; for what-so-ever agreeth to anie thing , in respect of the nature of it , it agreeth to it necessarilie and immutablie . If therefore wee in this respect , sweare the forbearance of Pearth Articles , wee shall bee holden to forbeare Pearth Articles , not for a tyme , but for ever .

15. Next , wee pray you consider , what is meaned by the foresayde Novations , in that part of your Covenant , wherein yee promise to labour to recover the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell , as it was before the foresayde Novations . Certaynlie these wordes can not bee vnderstood of Novations to bee introduced , and which haue not as yet entred vnto our Church . For the Libertie ▪ and Puritie of the Church is not as yet lost , yea , not impared by them , and so needeth not to bee recovered by the removing of them . They must then be vnderstood of the Novations mentioned in the Parenthesis of your Covenant ; that , is of all Innovations alreadie introduced by Authoritie , and their alleadged Consequentes , which yee promise to forbeare , vntill they bee allowed , and tryed by a free Assemblie . Hence anie man may conclude , that altho in your Parenthesis , yee promise onlie to forbeare these Novations for a tyme , yet in the wordes immediatelie following , yee condemne and abjure them . For the recovering of the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell , as it was established before the foresayde Novations , importeth manifestlie a removing of all these Novations , which eyther in themselues , or in respect of their consequents , are contrarie to the Puritie and Libertie of the Gospell . But all Novations alreadie introduced , are in your judgement of this kynde , and there-fore your Vowe , of the Recovering the Libertie and Puritie of the GOSPELL , importeth a removing of all the fore-sayde Novations .

16. To conclude this Argument : Yee may see , that wee haue pryed no more narrowlie into the expressions of your COVENANT , than wee had reason ; and haue laboured , not to scarre our selues , and others , with meere shadowes , as yee affirme .

Of our ARGVMENT , Ad hominem , and the weake Retorsion of it , by the Answeres .

17. Nowe wee come to our Argument , or Syllogisme , AD HOMINEM , which hath so pinched you , that yee haue not attempted to answere to anie of the Propositions of it . Our intention in that Argument , was to proue , that whether Pearth Articles bee abjured in the Late Covenant , or not ; Yet yee ( who came hither , to giue vs satisfaction concerning the Covenant ) can not , with a safe conscience , averre , or declare to vs , that they are not abjured in it . This wee did evidentlie proue , reasoning thus : What-so-ever Rites are abjured in the Olde Covenant , they are also , in your judgement , abjured in the Late Covenant . But Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are , in your judgement , abjured in the Olde Covenant : ERGO , they are , in your judgement , abjured in the Late Covenant : and , consequentlie , if yee deale sincerelie with vs , ye must averre , that they are also abjured in the Late Covenant .

18. To this yee say , first , that what-so-ever be your judgement , as yee are particular persons , yet , at this tyme , yee were to bee taken , as Commissioners from the whole Companie of Subscrybers . Truelie wee did take you so ; and did thinke , that yee who were Commissioners from such a Multitude of good Christians , would haue tolde vs your mynde sincerelie , concerning the full extent of the Late Covenant ; and , that yee would neyther haue affirmed anie thing as Commissioners , which yee doe not thinke to bee true , as yee are particular persons ; nor yet would haue laboured , so to insnare vs , as to haue bidden vs subscrybe a Covenant , reallie , and indeede , in your judgement , abjuring those thinges , which wee , with a safe conscience , can not abjure . For , in your judgement , PEARTH ARTICLES , and EPISCOPACIE , are most reallie abjured in the LATE COVENANT , although yee playnlie affirme the contrarie , in your Answeres to our fourth , fift , and sixt Demaund . And ( which is much to bee noted ) in your Answere to our tenth Demaund , yee affirme , concerning your selues , That yee , in this Late Covenant , haue promised onelie Forbearance of Pearth Articles . Wee wonder much , howe yee can say so . For who-so-ever by their Oath haue tyed themselues to a Confession , in the which they firmlie belieue Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , to bee abjured , those haue indeede abjured Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie . But yee in the Late Covenant , haue tyed your selues by your Oath , to the Little Confession , or Olde Covenant , in the which yee firmlie belieue , Episcopacie , and Pearth Articles , to bee abjured : Ergo , in your Late Covenant yee haue abjured Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie : And not onelie yee , but all those who are of that same mynde with you . Whence wee inferred , in that tenth Demaund , That none of you can vote freelie in the intended Assemblie , concerning PEARTH ARTICLES , and EPISCOPACIE .

19. Secondlie , yee say , that if others of the Subscribents , who are of our judgement , ( that is , who are not perswaded that Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are abjured in the Olde Covenant , ) had come as Commissioners at this tyme to vs , our Argument AD HOMINEM , had beene anticipated , because it would not haue beene pertinent for them . But yee are deceaved , for wee haue ever looked principallie to these , who were the first Contryvers of the Late Covenant , or had speciall hand in it , that is , to your selues , and to others , who these manie yeares by-gone , haue opposed Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , as Popish corruptions , abjured in the Olde Covenant ; and consequentlie haue , in this Late Covenant , ( in the which that former Covenant is renewed ) by your owne personall Oath , abjured Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie . If then that other sort of Commissioners had come vnto vs , wee would haue sayde to them , that wee can not sweare the Late Covenant , because Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are in it abjured . And this wee would haue proved by the lyke Argument AD HOMINEM , that is , by an Argument grounded vpon the judgement of the contryvers of the Late Covenant : as yee may easilie perceaue .

20. Thirdlie , yee say , that wee haue perceaved the insufficiencie of our Argument , because wee objected this to our selues : that seeing wee thinke Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , not to bee abjured in the Olde Covenant , wee may Subscrybe the New Covenant , in the which that Olde Covenant is renewed . Truelie yee might haue alleadged this , if wee had propounded that objection , and had left it vnanswered . But wee answered it ▪ and brought some reasons ( which yee wyselie did passe by , perceaving the force of them ) to show , that wee can not convenientlie subscrybe your Late Covenant , notwithstanding of our Judgement , or rather Opinion of the meaning of the Olde Covenant . We say Opinion : for to speake truelie what we thinke , wee doubt , and so doe others with vs , concerning the meaning of some parts of the Olde Covenant , touching matters of Ecclesiasticall policie , and haue not so full a perswasion in our myndes concerning those parts , as may bee to vs a warrand of our Oath .

21. Fourthlie , where-as yee say , that it was not for vs to inquyre in your private opinion , concerning the meaning of the Late Covenant , in that part of it , where it tyeth vs to the inviolable observation of the Olde Covenant , nor was it necessarie for you , to make it knowne to vs ; Wee answere , that wee inquired not your private opinion , but the common judgement of all those , who with you these twentie yeares by past , haue accused vs of Perjurie , for the alleadged violation of the Olde Covenant , sworne by our Praedecessoures . And truelie wee had more than reason to doe so ; because wee most justlie feared , that yee , who haue so oft accused vs of Perjurie , for practising Rites and Ceremonies abjured , as yee alleadge , in the Olde Covenant , sworne by our Praedecessoures , would much more vehementlie ; yea , also with a greater show of probabilitie , accuse vs of Perjurie , for violation of the Olde Covenant , sworne and ratified by our selues in this Late Covenant , if wee should stand to the defence of Pearth Articles in tyme to come . It became vs therefore , for eschewing of this inconvenient , to inquyre of you , and you also sincerelie and playnlie to declare to vs , whether or not wee may Subscrybe & sweare the New Covenant , as it includeth and ratifieth the Olde , and yet bee reallie free from all abjuration , or condemning Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie ? And lykewyse whether or not yee , and all others who are of your mynde , will holde and esteeme vs free from abjuration of them , not-with-standing of our subscrybing of your Covenant . These Questions requyre a punctuall Aunswere . For if our subscrybing of your Covenant , may eyther import a reall Abjuration of Pearth Articles , or if it may make you to thinke , that by vertue of our Subscription , wee are reallie , and in-deede , bound to reject them for ever ; neyther can wee , with a good conscience , subscrybe your Covenant ; neyther can yee , with a good conscience , requyre it of vs .

22. Fiftlie , from our refusing to subscrybe the Late Covenant , in so farre as it reneweth the Olde Covenant , or Little Confession ; because that Confession , according to your Interpretation , or conception of it , importeth an Abjuration of Pearth Articles , yee collect , first , that vpon this ground wee would not haue subscrybed the Late Confession anie tyme by-past . Secondlie , That wee can not sweare the Confession of anie Church , no , not the Articles of the CREED , Petitions of the LORD'S PRAYER , nor Praeceptes of the ten COMMANDEMENTS , in respect of the diverse Interpretations , which men giue of them . Wee answere , first , that since the Little Confession , is not of Divine Authoritie , and since the Humane Authoritie which it had , hath these manie yeares by-gone ceassed , ( as THE PEACEABLE WARNING , Latelie given to the Subjectes in SCOTLAND , proveth ) wee would haue refused our Subscription vnto it , ever since wee heard , that it importeth an Abjuration of all Rites , and Ceremonies , which were not receaved in our CHVRCH in the yeare 1681 ; except wee had gotten some Evidence to the contrarie , sufficientlie satisfying our myndes . Secondlie : As for the CREED , LORD's PRAYER , and tenne COMMANDEMENTS , your Argument taken from the varietie of mens Expositions of them , is farre from the purpose . For , since wee are perswaded , that the Author , or Penne-men of THEM , neyther intended , nor yet delivered anie thing in them , but Trueth : and that their Expression is authenticke , wee are bound to embrace , and receaue them , not-with-standing of the varietie of Interpretations , which men giue of them : neyther is it lawfull to vs , to refuse our Subscription , or Assent , to them , what-so-ever be the judgement or assent of those who requyre it of vs : beeing allwayes bound to acknowledge the infallible Authoritie of them , even when wee doubt of the true meaning of them . Thirdlie : As for anie of these later Confessions of Churches , if the case bee such , as nowe it is in this particular of this Late Covenant , that is , if wee bee not bound by anie standing Lawe , to subscrybe it , and if it bee so lyable to the varietie of Interpretations , that it may probablie import that which wee thinke to bee contrarie to the TRVETH , and if these who requyre our Subscription , bee , in our judgement , Opposers of the Trueth , in anie poynt contayned in that Confession , & may make advantage of our Subscription , alleadging , that wee are tyed by it , to consent to their Doctrines , or Practises : we may justlie , in such a case , denye our Subscription to that Confession , for the ambiguitie of it ; and much more may desire those who vrge vs to subscrybe it , to declare vnto ●s , before wee giue our SVBSCRIPTION , Whether , or not , that CONFESSION , in their judgement , will tye vs to their Doctrines , and Practises .

23. Last of all : In modestie , as yee say , but with a jesting complement , yee present vnto vs , a Dish ▪ of our owne dressing : yee meane , the lyke Argument , AD HOMINEM ; which is this : The Rites and Ceremonies which are not abjured in the Negatiue Confession , are not abjured in this Late Covenant : But the Rites and Ceremonies , which were concluded in Pearth Assemblie , are not abjured ▪ as yee say , in the Negatiue Confession , made anno 1581 ; therefore they are not abjured in this Late Covenant . The first Proposition , as yee say , is evident , because in the Late Covenant wee are bound no farther , concerning the Negatiue Confession , but to keepe it inviolable : And there-fore , what Rites are not abjured there , are not abjured heere . Lyke-wyse yee say , that the second PROPOSITION can not bee denyed by vs , in respect these twentie yeares by-gone , wee haue thought our selues free of Perjurie , not-with-standing of the Oath made 1581 , and of our conforming our selues to the Ordinance of PEARTH . Good Brethren , yee haue retorted this . Argument verie weaklie vpon vs . For , first , wee flatlie denye the Major of your Syllogisme ; and withall doe repell the confirmation of it . For altho Pearth Articles , were not abjured in the Late Covenant , in so farre as it reneweth the Negatiue Confession ; yet they may bee , and , as it is alreadie proven , they are abjured in that other part of your Late Covenant , where yee vowe and promise , To recover the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell , as it was established and professed before the fore-sayde Novations-Next , as for your Minor , or second Proposition , wee suspend our judgement of it , vntill wee bee better informed and advysed : doubting , as wee sayde before , concerning the meaning of those parts of the Olde Covenant , which concerne matters of Rite or Ceremonie . Neyther doeth the confirmation of your Minor trouble vs ; for wee haue thought our selues free of Perjurie these twentie yeares by-gone , not for anie certayne perswasion which wee had , that Pearth Articles are not abjured in the Olde Covenant ; but because wee did not personallie sweare that Covenant , and are not tyed to it , by the Oath ▪ of those who did Subscrybe it : which wee are readie to demonstrate by irrefragable Argumentes . Yee see then your Argument retorted vpon vs , pearceth vs not at all : and the Reader , may perceaue that our Argument hath beene so forciblie throwne vpon you , that yee haue not taken vpon you to answere anie part of it . If ye had had evidence of the Trueth for you , yee would not onlie haue retorted our Argument , but also by answering it punctuallie , showne , that it strayteth not you : and if yee had beene exact Resolvers , yee would not haue gone about to haue satisfied vs with a naked Argument in contrarium .

24. Before wee leaue this poynt , that it may bee knowne to all , what reason wee haue to insist in this our Argument , AD HOMINEM , and that wee haue proponed it , not to catch advantage of you , but to get satisfaction to our owne myndes , concerning the COVENANT , and your sinceritie in vrging vs to Subscrybe it , wee will collect out of that which hath bene alreadie sayd , some INTERROGATORIES , which wee pray you to answere punctuallie , if yee intende to giue vs satisfaction . The first is , Whether or not your declaration of the extent of the LATE COVEMANT , to wit , that it extendeth not it selfe to the abjuration of Pearth Articles , bee not onlie VERA , true in it selfe , but also VERAX , that is , consonant to your mynde , and to the mynde of the chiefe Contryvers of it ? The reason where-fore wee propone this question , yee will perceaue by these that follow . Secondlie , seeing yee and others the chiefe Contryvers of the Olde Covenant , haue beene ever of this mynde , that Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are abjured in it ; wee aske , Whether yee all tying your selues by this LATE COVENANT , to the inviolable observation of the OLDE COVENANT , haue tyed your selues to it in all the particular poynts , which yee conceaved to bee contayned in it , or onelie in some of them ? Did yee by mentall reservation , except anie part of that OLDE COVENANT , or in particular did yee except that part of it , in the which , Perpetuall continuance in the Doctrine & Discipline of this Church is promised ? Or if that part was not excepted , did yee put anie new glosse vpon it which it had not before ? And if yee did not , whether or not yee renewing the Oath of perpetuall observation , of the Doctrine and Discipline of this Church , as it was Anno 1581 , haue not onlie reallie , but also according to your owne conception of that part of the OLDE COVENANT , abjured all Rites and Ceremonies , added to the Discipline of this Church , since the fore-sayde yeare ; and consequentlie , the Articles of Pearth , and Episcopacie ? Thirdlie , seeing yee so confidentlie averre , that Pearth Articles are abjured in the Olde Covenant , howe can yee denye them to bee abjured in the New Covenant , except yee acknowledge a substantiall difference , betwixt the Olde and New Covenant ? Fourthlie , if yee grant that they are reallie and indeed abjured in the Late Covenant , how can yee faythfullie and sincerelie say to vs , or to anie other , that they are not abjured in it ? Fiftlie , how can yee , and all others , ( who with you haue reallie , and also according to your owne conception of the Olde Covenant , abjured Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , by renewing of it ) voyce freelie , in the intended Assemblie , concerning these thinges ; seeing yee are tyed by your Oath , to condemne and abrogate them ? Sixtlie , How can wee concurre with you in an Oath , wherein wee are infalliblie perswaded that yee haue abjured Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie ? Seaventhlie , If wee concurre with you in that Oath , will yee not ( as wee objected in our REPLYE , but yee haue not answered it ) thinke vs bound by our Oath , to condemne Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie ? And will not yee thinke your selues bound in conscience to tell vs , and all others , that which yee thinke to bee trueth , and may make much for your cause , to wit , That the wordes of the Covenant haue but one sense , and that in that one sense Pearth Articles are abjured ?

25. Yee , and all others , may nowe see , howe injustlie yee sayde , That wee would haue the Covenanters , agaynst their intention , And whether they will or not , to dis-allowe , and condemne Pearth Articles , and Episcopall Governement , lest they bee tryed in a free Assemblie . God knoweth , how farre wee detest all such dealing , and this vindication of our two Argumentes ( wee added also a third , but yee haue swallowed it ) brought by vs , to proue , that Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , are abjured in your Late Covenant , will sufficientlie cleare vs of this imputation , to all vnpartiall Readers .

26. Wee did not onelie alleadge , as yee say , that your Supplications to his Majestie were fullie satisfied , by the last PROCLAMATION ; but grounding an Argument vpon your Answere , to our fourth Demaund , wee reasoned thus : If in all your Supplications , yee haue onelie sought the removing of the Service-Booke , Booke of Canons , and New High Commission ; not complayning of anie other Novations , alreadie introduced : And , seeing his Majestie hath graunted this vnto you , what reason haue yee to say , that his Majestie hath not satisfied your Supplications ? This our Argument , yee haue turned to a meere Alleadgeance , lest yee should haue troubled your selues , with answering it .

Whether , or not , we may forbeare the practise of PEARTH ARTICLES , vntill they bee tryed in a FREE ASSEMBLIE .

27. Wee come now to the consideration of that , which your COVENANT , by your owne confession , tyeth vs to ; to wit , The forbearance of PEARTH Articles , vntill they bee tryed in a free Assemblie . And first , where-as yee say , That the vrging of the Service Booke , is a sufficient reason for forbearance of PEARTH Articles , till an Assemblie ; wee professe , that wee can not see the equitie , and force of this reason . For the Service-Booke may be holden out , albeit Pearth Articles were not forborne at this tyme ; yea , altho they should never bee removed . And the more obedient , Subjects were at this tyme , to his Majesties lawes allreadie established , the greater hope might they haue of obtayning their desires .

28. Ye bring 2 Arguments , to proue the lawfulnes of the forbearance of Novations alreadie introduced . One is , that the Articles of Pearth establishing them , were concluded onlie for satisfying the King , and not to presse anie man with the practise of them : And because the Act it selfe ( yee meane the Act concerning Kneeling ) giveth warrand , to forbeare the practise of them at this tyme , when the memorie of Superstition is revived . But this reason doeth no wayes satisfie our consciences . For , to begin with the last part of your Answere ; THE MEMORIE OF SVPERSTITIOVS CELEBRATION OF THE LORD'S SVPPER , is not renewed in this Kingdome , for ought wee know . And , if yee meane , that it is renewed by the Service-Booke ; suppone that were true , yet , yee know , the Service-Booke is discharged , by the Act of Councell , at his Majesties commandement . Secondlie , the Act of Pearth , giveth no warrand to forbeare Kneeling , vpon everie suspition or apprehension of Superstition , re-entring vnto this Church . Your Argument , which yee brought to proue this , from the narratiue of that Act , in your Answere to our nynth Demaund , is confuted moste playnlie by vs in our Replye to your Aunswere : and wee shall agayne speake of it in our DVPLYE , to your second Answere concerning that Demaund .

29. As for the other two parts of your reason , they are contrarie to the verie wordes of the Acts of Pearth Assemblie . The first part is contrarie to the Narratiue of all these Acts , wherein no mention is made of satisfying the King , but of other motiues taken from the expediencie , or vtilitie of the matters themselues . The second part is contrarie to the tenour of the Decision , or Determination of these Acts : in the which by these formall wordes , The Assemblie thinketh good : the Assemblie ordayneth : Kneeling in the Celebration of the Sacrament , Feastivall dayes , &c. are enjoyned .

30. Wee heare of a childish , and ridiculous concept of some , who thinke that these wordes , The Assemblie thinketh good , importe not an Ecclesiasticke constitution , but a meere advyse , or counsell . This apprehension proceedeth from ignorance : for that phrase is most frequentlie vsed by Councells , in their decrees . In that Apostolicke Councell , mentioned ACTS 15 , the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , are expresslie vsed , verse 22.25.28 . In the Councell of Ancyra , Can. 1. & 2. the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is vsed . In that Great and first O Ecumenicke Councell of Nice , Can. 5 , yee haue these wordes ; 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Can. 8. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Can. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . In the third Councell of Carthage , Can. 1.2 . & 3. the word placuit is vsed , & in codice Canonum Ecclesiae Africanae Graeco-Latino passim habetur vox PLACVIT 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . And from the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , the Decrees of the Apostolicke Councell were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , Act. 16.4 - Yea , also the Civill Decree of Caesar Augustus , LVKE 2. verse 1. is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , edictum , placitum . And in the Civill Lawe , the Constitutions of Emperoures , are called Principum placita , Instit. de Jure naturali , § . 6. & 9. Quod Principi placuit , Legis habet vigorem , sayeth Vlpianus , ff. de Constit . Principum , Lege 1 : Where Quod Principi placuit , signifieth as much , as Quod Princeps constituit .

31. Your other Reason , ( which yee bring to proue the lawfulnesse of the forbearance of Pearth Articles ) is , That it is lawfull to sweare the forbearance of a thing indifferent , in the case of Scandall , and sensible Feare of Superstition , in others . Yea , yee thinke , that by doing so , yee haue sworne Obedience to the Commandement of GOD , which forbiddeth the doing of that where-by others may bee scandalized . This Reason moveth vs no more than the first : For , as for your feare of farther Superstition , it is now groundlesse , and causelesse , in respect of the gracious Promises contayned in his Majesties PROCLAMATION . But although it were a feare justlie conceaved , and although the eschewing of an Evill justlie feared , bee a thing good , and desirable ; yet wee ought not , for the eschewing of it , disobey the lawfull Commaundementes of our Superioures . For this were to doe Evill , that Good might come of it ; which the Apostle condemneth ; ROM. 3. verse 8.

Of SCANDALL ; and whether or not wee may denye Obedience to the Lawes of our Superiours , for feare of Scandall causleslie taken ?

32. As for that other motiue of Scandall , for which yee alleadge , that wee who thinke the matters concluded in Pearth Assemblie , to bee indifferent , and lawfull , may sweare the forbearance of them ; wee pray you , tell vs , What kynd of Scandall it is , which , as yee alleadge , is taken at the practise of Pearth Articles ? Yee knowe , that passiue Scandall , is eyther procured by the enormitie or irregularitie of the fact it selfe , ( to wit , when eyther it is a Sinne , or else hath a manifest showe of sinne ) or else it is not procured , but causeleslie taken by some , eyther through malice , or else through weaknesse . Nowe , which of these two sortes of Scandall whould yee haue vs to acknowledge , in the practise of Pearth Articles ? If the first , then yee would haue vs to condemne Pearth Articles , before they bee tryed in a free Assemblie : which is contrarie to your Protestation , and no lesse contrarie to our Resolution . For , if wee acknowledge anie enormitie in the practise of Pearth Articles , ex ipsa conditione operis , wee shall bee holden to condemne them , and abstayne from them for ever .

33. If yee will haue vs to acknowledge , that the Scandall following vpon the practise of Pearth Articles , is of the second sort , that is , is causeleslie taken ; and , that for such a Scandall , whether it bee taken through weaknesse , or malice , wee ought to abstayne from the doing of a thing indifferent , although it bee enjoyned by a lawfull Authoritie ; ( for yee generallie affirme , that all thinges , which are not necessarie , and directlie commaunded by GOD Him-selfe , ought to bee omitted , for anie Scandall what-so-ever , altho it bee causeleslie , yea , and most maliciouslie taken , and that not-with-standing of anie humane precept , or lawe , enjoying them . See the Dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , Part. 2. Cap. 8. Sect. 5. & 6. Item Cap. 9. Sect. 10. ) then wee protest , that wee differ so farre from you in this poynt , that wee thinke , that for no Scandall , causeleslie taken , can wee sweare such a forbearance of Pearth Articles , as yee would haue vs . And wee marvell from whence yee haue learned this strange , and moste haske Doctrine , that for Scandall , causeleslie , yea , maliciouslie taken , a man may totallie , and absolutelie , denye Obedience , to the Lawes of Superioures .

34. The Author of the Dispute even now cited , alleadgeth for his opinion , some Schoole-men , acknowledging the trueth of it : and hee nameth Cajetane , and Bannez , who ( sayeth hee ) affirme , that wee should abstayne , even a spiritualibus non necessariis , when Scandall aryseth out of them . Hee might haue cited for this tenet , Thomas , and all his Interpreters , ( even altho hee had beene but slenderlie acquaynt with them ) as well as these two : For they all doe say so . But truelie he much mis-taketh them , when hee alleadgeth them for his opinion . For , first , none of them ever taught , that wee ought to abstayne totallie and altogether , from anie spirituall duetie for the Scandall , eyther of the weake , or malicious . Secondlie , when Thomas and others following him , say , That bona spiritualia non necessaria sunt dimittenda propter Scandalum , they speake directlie de eis quae sunt sub consilio , non vero sub praecepto , of matters of Councell , and not commanded by anie Authoritie , divyne or humane : and the most which they say of them , is , that such thinges sunt interdum occultanda , vel ad tempus differenda , that is , may at some tymes , and in some places , bee omitted , for eschewing the Scandall of the weake . Thirdlie , the most accurate Casuists , and Jnterpreters of Thomas , differ much about this question , Whether or not , thinges that are commanded by positiue Lawes , Civill , and Ecclesiasticall , may bee omitted at any tyme , for eschewing Scandalum pusillorum , the Scandall of the weake . Dyverse of them denye this , to wit , Navarrus , in Manual . Cap. 14. § . 44. Vasquez , Tom. 5. Tract . de scandalo , dubio primo , § . 5. Becanus in summa Theologiae , Part. 2. Tom. posteriori , Tract . 1. Cap. 27. Quaest. 5. Ferdin . de Castro Palao , in opere morali , Tract . 6. Disp. 6. Punct. 16. Duvallius , in 2 am 2ae Divae Thomae , Tract . de Charitate , Quaest. 19. Art. 5. And for their judgement , they cite Thomas , Durandus , Almainus , Anton. Florent . and manie others . Fourthlie : Those of them who thinke , that thinges commanded by humane Lawes , may bee omitted in the case of Scandall , admit not , as yee doe , such an omission of the thing commaunded , in the case of Scandall , as is conjoyned with a flatte Disclayming of the Authoritie of the Lawe . For they tell vs , that wee ought not , for anie Scandall of the weake , denye Obedience to the Precepts , or Lawes , of our Superioures , when-so-ever all other Circumstances beeing considered , wee are tyed , or obliedged , to the obedience of them . The omission , then , of the thing commaunded , which they allowe , is onelie a partiall and occasionall forbearance , and not a totall abstinence from Obedience , or disclayming the Authoritie of the Lawe . See Valentia , Tom. 3. Disp. 3. Quaest. 18. Punct. 4. & Suarez , de triplici Virtute , Tract . 3. Disp. 10. Sect. 3. §. 9.

35. But the forbearance of Pearth Articles , which yee requyre of vs , is conjoyned with a flatte disclayming of the Authoritie of all the Laws which established them . And yee will haue vs to forbeare these Articles , at this tyme , when all the particular Circumstances , which wee ought to regarde , beeing considered , wee are tyed to Obedience of them ; especiallie , if wee looke to the will and mynd of the Law-givers , and of our present Superioures . Wee justlie say , that you will haue vs to disclayme , all-to-gether , the Authoritie of these Lawe : For who-so-ever resolue , and determine , not to practise Pearth Articles , vntill they bee tryed in a New Assemblie , and established by a New Parliament ; these are purposed , never to obey them , except they bee tyed by new Lawes and Actes , concluded in a New Assemblie , and Parliament : And , consequentlie , are resolved , never to regarde and obeye the Lawes or Actes of Pearth Assemblie , and the Parliament 1621 , which established these thinges . But so it is , yee would haue vs to resolue , yea , to promise , and sweare , not to practise Pearth Articles , vntill they bee tryed in a New Assemblie , and established by a New Parliament : ERGO , yee would haue vs to promise , not to practise Perth articles , except wee bee tyed , or obliedged , by New Lawes , to practise them : and , consequentlie . would haue vs , never to regarde , or obey , the Actes of Pearth Assemblie , and Parliament 1621.

36. This kynde of forbearance , to wit , which is conjoyned with a playne disclayming of the authoritie of the Lawes made by our Superioures , can not bee excused with your pretence of Scandall causeleslie taken . This wee proue : First , by a position granted by your selues , and so evidentlie true , that no man can denye it . The Author of the Dispute , agaynst English Popish Ceremonies , Part. 1. Cap. 4. Sect. 4. sayeth , That it were Scandall , not to obey thb Lawes of the Church , when they prescrybe thinges necessarie , or expedient for the eschewing of Scandall : And , that it were contempt , to refuse obedience to the Lawes of the Church , when wee are not certaynlie perswaded , of the vnlawfulnesse or inexpediencie of things commanded . Now , if such a refusing of obedience , bee both a Contempt , and a Scandall , it followeth manifestlie , that no man for eschewing of Scandall causeleslie taken , ought in such a case to refuse obedience . Hence wee reason thus : who-so-ever are not perswaded of the vnlawfulnesse or inexpediencie , of the things commanded by their Superioures ; and on the contrare thinke them to bee expedient ad vitandum Scandalum ; these ought not for eschewing of Scandall , refuse obedience to the lawes and ordinances of their Superioures . But so it is , wee are neyther perswaded of the vnlawfulnesse , nor of the inexpediencie of Pearth Articles : yea , on the contrarie , wee thinke that the Acts of Pearth Assemblie , enjoyneth thinges verie expedient for eschewing of Scandall : ERGO , wee ought not for eschewing of Scandall causeleslie taken , to refuse obedience to them . The Major of this our first Argument , is alreadie proven . The Minor is conforme to the light of our owne consciences , as GOD knoweth : and therefore so long as wee are of this mynde , wee can not denye obedience to the ordinances of our Superioures , for anie feare of Scandall causeleslie taken .

37. Secondlie , that which may bee removed by information or instruction , can not bee a warrand to vs , of a totall abstinence from the obedience of Lawes , or , which is all one , of an avowed disclayming of the Authoritie of them . But the Scandall of the weake , taken by the practise of Pearth Articles , may bee removed by information , or instruction : ERGO , it can not bee a warrand to vs , of a totall disclayming of the Authoritie of the Laws , whereby these Articles were established .

38. Thirdlie : If for Scandalls taken , especiallie by the Malicious , wee may disclayme the Authoritie of a Law , then wee may ever disclayme the Authoritie of all Lawes , of the Church or Estate . For there is nothing commanded by Lawes , but some , eyther through weaknesse , or through malice , may take offence at it .

39. Fourthlie , Wee ought not for eschewing Scandall causeleslie taken , to injure or offend anie man , by denying to him , that which is due to him , and therefore wee ought not , for eschewing Scandall causeleslie taken , to offend and injure our Superioures , in Church and Policie , by denying to them that obedience which is due to them . The antecedent is cleare by manie examples . For if a man bee Excommunicated , shall his Wyfe , Children , and Servants flee his companie , and so denye to him these dueties which they owe to him , for feare that others bee Scandalized , by their keeping of companie with an Excommunicate Person ? And if they may not for eschewing of Scandall , abstayne from these dueties , which they owe to a private person , much lesse may wee abstayne from that obedience , which we owe to our Superioures , having publicke charges in Church and Policie , for eschewing of Scandals causeleslie taken by others .

40. Fiftlie , What if the thing commanded , bee enjoyned by the civill Magistrate , vnder payne of death , and by Ecclesiasticall Authoritie , vnder payne of Excommunication , shall wee for feare of a Scandall causeleslie taken , which may bee removed by information , or for the Scandall of the malicious , who will not bee informed at all , abstayne from the doing of a thing lawfull and expedient , enjoyned by Authoritie , and by so doing , incurre these most grievous punishments of Death Temporall , and Spirituall ? Wee belieue , that your selues , who speake most of Scandall , would bee loath to take such a yoke vpon you .

41. Sixtlie , The denying of obedience , to the lawfull commandements of our Superioures , is forbidden in the fift COMMANDEMENT , and consequentlie it is a sinne . Shall wee then for a Scandall causeleslie taken , denye obedience to our Superioures , and so incurre the guiltiness of sinne ? Yee commonlie answere to this , that the Negatiue Part of the fift COMMANDEMENT , which forbiddeth the resisting of the power , ROM. 13. VERS 2. and in generall the denying of obedience to Superioures , is to bee vnderstood with the exception of the case of anie Scandall taken by others . For if wee see , ( say yee ) that anie may , or will take offence , at the doing of that which is commanded by our Superioures , wee are not holden to obey them : and our denying of obedience to them in such a case , is not forbidden in that COMMANDEMENT .

42. But , first , wee aske , what warrand yee haue to say , that the negatiue part of the fift Commaundement , is to bee vnderstoode with the exception of the case of Scandall , more than other negatiue Preceptes of the second Table ? Secondlie : As men may take offence , eyther though weaknesse , or malice , at our doing of the thing commaunded ; so they are moste readie to stumble at our denying of Obedience to the lawfull Commaundementes of our Superioures : For they will take occasion , by our carriage , to doe that , vnto which by nature , they are moste enclyned ; to wit , to vilipende Lawes , and the Authoritie of their Superioures . Shall wee , then , for the eschewing of a Scandall causeleslie taken , not onelie refuse to our Superioures , the duetie of Obedience , which they craue of vs ; but also incurre an other Scandall , and that a farre more perilous one . Thirdlie : Wee haue alreadie showne , that the negatiue parte of the fift Commaundement , is not allwayes to bee vnderstoode with the exception of the case of Scandall causeleslie taken . For , Wyues , Children , and Servantes , must not denye Obedience , and familiar conversation to their Husbandes , Parentes , and Masters , which are excommunicated , for feare that others , through weaknesse , or malice , bee scandalized there-at . Fourthly : As yee saye , that the Precept concerning Obedience to Superioures , is to bee vnderstoode with the exception of the case of Scandall causeleslie taken ; so wee , with farre better Reason , saye , that the Precept , of eschewing Scandall causeleslie taken , is to bee vnderstoode with the exception of the case of Obedience peremptorlie requyred , by our lawfull Superioures , as wee shall showe in our next Argument .

Whether the PRECEPT of OBEDIENCE to SVPERIOVRS , or the PRECEPT of eschewing SCANDALL , be more obligatorie ?

43. Last of all : When a man is peremptorlie vrged by his Superioures , to obey their lawfull Commandements , and in the meane tyme feareth , that if hee doe the thing commanded by them , some , through weaknesse , shall be scandalized , by his carriage ; in this case , hee is not onlie in a difficultie , or strait , betwixt the Commandement of Man , and THE COMMANDEMENT OF GOD , who forbiddeth vs to doe that where-by our weake Brother may bee offended ; but also hee seemeth to bee in a strayt betwixt two of GOD'S Commandementes ; to wit , betwixt that Precept which forbiddeth the doing of anie thing , where-by the weake may bee scandalized , and that other Precept which forbiddeth the resisting of Authoritie ; and telleth vs , that who-so-ever resisteth the Power , resisteth the Ordinance of GOD. Nowe , seeing GOD'S Preceptes are not repugnant one to another , neyther doeth GOD by His Lawes laye vpon vs a necessitie of sinning , out of all question , in this case , wee are fred from the Obligation of one of these Preceptes : and that which doeth not so strictlie tye vs , or is lesse obligatorie , must needs giue place to the other , which is of greater Obligation . Yee commonlie saye , that the Precept of Obedience to humane Authoritie , must giue place to the Precept of eschewing Scandall , altho it bee causeleslie taken : And , to confirme your Assertion , yee saye , that the Ordinance of a Superiour , can not make that fact to bee free of Scandall , which other-wayes would bee scandalous ; and , that a fact , vpon which anie Scandall followeth , ought not to bee done for the Commaundement of Man . Whence yee collect , that , in such a case , wee ought not to regarde , or obeye , the Commaundement of our Superioures .

44. This your Reason can not bee good , because we can easilie retort the Argument , and saye to you , that in such a case wee ought not to regarde the Scandall causeleslie taken by our weake brethren , so farre , as to denye simplie , and absolutelie , Obedience to our Superioures for it ; and that because the sinne of Disobedience ought to be eschewed : and no Scandall of weake brethren causeleslie taken , can make that fact , not to bee the sinne of disobedience , which other-wayes , that is , extra casum scandali , would bee the sinne of disobedience . For it is certayne , that ( laying aside the case of Scandall ) to denye Obedience to the Ordinance of our Superioures , enjoyning , and peremptorlie requyring of vs , thinges lawfull , and expedient , is reallie the sinne of Disobedience . Yee will saye , that the scandall of weake brethren , may make that Fact , or Omission , not to bee Disobedience , which otherwayes would bee Disobedience ; because wee ought not for the Commaundement of man , doe that where-by our weake brother may bee offended : and so the Precept of Obedience bindeth not , when offence of a weake brother may bee feared . On the contrarie wee saye , that the lawfull commaundement of Superioures , may make that Scandall of our weake brethren , not to bee imputed vnto vs , which other-wayes would bee imputed vnto vs , as a matter of our guiltinesse ; because wee ought not , for feare of Scandall causeleslie taken , denye Obedience to the lawfull Commaundementes of our Superioures .

45. Agayne , yee say , that when Scandall of weake brethren may bee feared , the Precept of Obedience is not obligatorie , in respect the thing commaunded by our Superioures , altho it bee in it selfe lawfull , yet it becommeth vnexpedient , in respect of the Scandall which may followe vpon it . Nowe , ( saye yee ) the Ordinances of our Superioures are not obligatorie , when the thinges commaunded by them are vnexpedient . Wee , on the contrarie , saye , that when our Superioures requyre of vs Obedience to their lawfull Commaundementes , the Precept of eschewing Scandall , is not obligatorie ; in respect wee ought not , for Scandall causeleslie taken , omit necessarie dueties , which GOD in His Law requyreth of vs : In which number , wee moste justlie doe reckon , THE DVETIE OF OBEDIENCE , which wee owe to the lawfull Commaundementes of our Superioures .

46. As for that which yee saye , that when Scandall may bee taken at the doing of the thing commanded , then the thing commanded becommeth inexpedient , and so ought not to bee obeyed ; that yee bee not more deceaved by this errour , wee pray you marke , that a thing commanded by our Superioures , in Church , or Policie , may bee two wayes inexpedient , to wit , eyther in respect of some particular Persons , who through weaknesse or malice doe stumble at it , or else in respect of the bodie in generall , because it is contrarie to Order , Decencie , and Edification . If the thing commanded bee inexpedient the first way onlie , wee may indeed , in such a case , for eschewing the Scandall of the weake , forbeare the practise of the thing commanded hic , & nunc , in some particu●ar places , and tymes : provyding alwayes wee doe this , Without offence of our Supericures , and without the Scandall of others , who by our forbearance may bee made to vilipend the Authoritie of Lawes . But wee , can not in such a case totallie and absolutelie , denye obedience to a Law , as wee haue alreadie proven . Neyther is your Argument brought to the contrarie valide , in respect wee ought more to looke to the vtilitie and benefite , which the bodie of the Church may receaue by the thing commanded , and by our Obedience to our Superioures , than to the harme which some particular Persons may receaue there-by .

47. If the thing commanded , bee in our private judgement inexpedient the second way , wee ought not for that to denye Obedience to the Lawes of the Church ; for when the inexpediencie of a thing is questionable , & probable Arguments may bee brought pro and contra , concerning the expediencie of it , wee haue sufficient warrand to practise it , if the Church by her publicke decree hath declared , that shee thinketh it expedient . Your errour , who are of the contrarie mynde , is verie dangerous , & may proue most pernicious to the Church , for it maketh the Church obnoxious to perpetual Schisme , & disconformitie in matters of externall Policie : in respect men ordinarilie are divyded in judgement , concerning the expediencie of these thinges . Suppone , then , that in a Synode consisting of an hundreth Pastors , threescore of them thinke this , or that particular Ceremonie to bee expedient for the good of the Church ; and in respect of the plurality of their voices , mak an Act to be concluded for the establishing of it , shall the remnant fourtie , who are of the contrarie judgement , denye Obedience to the Act of the Synode , because they are perswaded , that the thing concluded is inexpedient ; and shall they by doing so , rent the bodie of the Church ? Truelie , if wee were all of your mynde , wee should never haue Peace nor Vnitie in this Church . Yee will say , perhaps , that this our Argument , is Popish , and leadeth men to acquiesee , without tryall , or examination , in the Decrees of the Church . Wee answere , that in matters of fayth , the trueth where-of may bee infalliblie concluded out of GOD'S word , wee ought not , without tryall , to acquiesce into the Decrees of the Church . And in this respect wee dissent from the Papistes , who ascrybe too much to the Authoritie of Councells , as if their Decrees were infallible . But in matters of Policie , if we bee certayne , that in their owne nature they are indifferent , and if the expediencie of them onlie bee called in question , seeing no certayne Conclusion , concerning their expediencie , can bee infalliblie drawne out of GOD'S Word , which hath not determined , whether this or that particular Rite bee agreeable to Order , Decencie , and aedification ; wee ought to acquiesce into the Decree or Constitution of the CHVRCH , altho it bee not of infallible authoritie : and that partlie because it is impossible , that other-wayes wee can agree in one Conclusion , concerning matters of this nature ; and partlie , because if wee denye Obedience to the Decree of the CHVRCH in such matters , our Disobedience shall proue farre more vnexpedient , and hurtfull to the CHVRCH , than our Obedience can bee .

48. Seeing , then , what-so-ever yee haue hither-to sayde , concerning the Question proponed by vs , may bee easilie aunswered , with a retortion of the Argument , vpon your selues ; that wee may eschewe all such Logomachie , wee must take some other course , and trye which of these two Preceptes is in it selfe of greater moment , and obligation : for thence wee may collect , which of these two Preceptes doeth obliedge vs in the case foresayde ; the other giving place to it , and not obliedging vs at all , in that case . If yee say , that the Precept which forbiddeth vs to doe that where-by our weake brother may bee scandalized , is in it selfe more obligatorie , or doeth more strictlie tye vs to the obedience of it , as beeing of greater moment , yee must bring a solid Reason for you , which wee thinke yee will hardlie finde . Wee knowe yee saye , that the Precept concerning Scandall , is more obligatorie , and of greater moment ; because it concerneth the losse of the soule of a Brother : But this Reason is not valide ; first , in respect our Brother , if hee bee scandalized , by our Obedience to our Superioures , sinneth not by our default , who doe obey : For our carriage , in giving Obedience , is such , as may rather aedifie our Brother . Secondlie : The Precept which forbiddeth Disobedience , concerneth the losse both of our owne soules , and of the soules of others , who may bee entysed to that sin , by our denying Obedience , to the lawfull commandements of our Superiours . Thirdlie . If that Praecept of eschewing Scandall , causeleslie taken , doe so strictlie obliedge vs , when our Superioures requyre Obedience of vs , it may happen , that a man shall bee in an inextricable perplexitie , not knowing whether hee shall obey , or denye Obedience to the Commandements of his Superioures : in respect hee may feare the Scandall of the weake , whether hee obey , or denye Obedience . For , as wee sayde before , manie are most readie to bee Scandalized by our denying of Obedience to our Superioures , in thinges lawfull , and otherwyse expedient : and that because wee by nature are most vnwilling to bee curbed , and to haue our Libertie restrayned , by the Lawes of our Supeperioures . For this cause ( as Calvin judiciouslie noteth , Instit. Lib. 2. Cap. 8. §. 35. ) GOD to allure vs to the duetie of Obedience to our Superiouree , called all Superioures , Parentes , in the fift COMMANDEMENT .

49. But wee , with good warrand , doe averre , that the Precept which forbiddeth resisting of the Civill power , and in generall the denying of Obedience to the lawfull Commandements of our Superioures , is of greater obligation and moment . And , first , wee proue this by an Argument taken from the dyverse degrees of that care , which wee ought to haue of the Salvation of others : for this care tyeth vs to three thinges ; to wit , first , to the doing of that which may be aedificatiue , and maye giue a good example to all . Secondlie : to the eschewing of that which may bee Scandalous , or an evill example to all ; that is , to the eschewing of everie thing , which is eyther sinne , or hath a manifest showe of sinne . Thirdlie : To abstayne even from that , which altho it bee lawfull , yet it may bee , to some particular persons , an occasion of sinne . Of these , the first two are most to bee regarded , in respect they concerne the good of all , which is to bee preferred to the good of particular persons . Hence wee inferre that the Precept of Obedience to Superioures , which prescrybeth an Act aedificatiue to all , because it is an exercise of a moste eminent and necessarie vertue , is more obligatorie , and of greater moment , than the Precept of eschewing Scandall , causeleslie taken , by some particular persons .

50. Secondlie : That the Praecept of Obedience to our Superioures , is of greater Moment , and consequentlie more obligatorie , than the Precept of eschewing Scandall ; is evident by these reasons which are brought by our Divynes , to show where-fore the fift Commaundement , hath the first place in the second Table : to wit , first , because it commeth nearest to the nature of Religion or Pietie , commanded in the first Table , whence ( as your owne Amesius noteth in his Medulla , Lib. 2. Cap. 17. §. 13. ) the honouring and obeying of Parents , is called by prophane Authors , Religion and Pietie . Secondlie : This Precept , is the ground and sinewe , ( sayeth Pareus , in his Catecheticke explication of the fift Precept , ) of the Obedience which is to bee given to all the rest of the Precepts , of the second Table . Two reasons are commonlie brought of this : One is , that all Societies , oeconomicke , Civill and Ecclesiasticall , doe consist and are conserved , by the submission or subjection of Inferioures to Superioures , which beeing removed , confusion necessarilie followeth . The other is , that the Obedience of this Precept , maketh way to the Obedience of all the rest . For our Superioures are set over vs , to the ende , that they may make vs to doe our duetie to all others . And consequentlie our Obedience to them , is a meane instituted by GOD , to procure our Obedience to all the rest of the Precepts of the second Table . Now , would yee know what followeth out of this , let your owne Amesius , whose wordes are more gracious vnto you , than ours , tell you it : Seeing ( sayth he , Cap. citato , §. 6 ) humane societie hath the place of a foundation or ground , in respect of other dueties , of Justice and Charitie , which are commanded in the second Table of the Law : therefore these crymes which directlie procure the perturbation , confusion , and eversion of it , are more grievous than the violations of the singular Praecepts . Now we subsume : the denying of Obedience to Superioures , injoyning such thinges as in them-selues are lawfull and exdient , directlie procureth the perturbation and confusion of humane societie . And therefore it is a cryme greater than the violation of other particular Praecepts of the second Table . For this cause , Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria , in his Epistle ad Novatum , cited before , declaring how much the vnitie of the Church ( which is most frequentlie marred by the disobedience of Inferioures to their Superioures , ) ought to bee regarded , sayeth , that Martyrdome suffered for eschewing of Schisme , is more glorious , than Martyrdome suffered for eschewing Idolatrie .

51. Thirdlie : These offices , or dueties , which wee owe to others , by way of Justice , are more strictlie obligatorie , than these which wee owe to them , onelie by way of Charitie . And consequentlie , these Praecepts which prescrybe Dueties of Justice , are of greater obligation , than these which prescrybe Dueties of Charitie onelie . But wee owe the duetie of Obedience to our Superiours , by way of Justice , and therefore it is more obligatorie , than the duetie of eschewing Scandall causleslie taken , which is a duetie onlie of Charitie . The Major , or first proposition of this Argument , is cleare of it selfe , as beeing a Maxime not onelie receaved by the Scholastickes and Popish Casuists ▪ but also by our Divynes . See your owne Amesius , in his Medulla ; Lib. 2. Cap. 16. §. 58.59.60.61.62.63 . where hee not onlie proponeth this Maxime , but also proveth it by two most evident examples . The Minor is lykewyse cleare : For , first , the duetie of Obedience , which wee owe to the publicke Lawes of the Church and Kingdome , belongeth to that Generall Justice , which is called Justitia legalis . For the legall justice , as it is in Inferiours , or Subjects , it is a vertue inclyning them to the Obedience of all Lawes , made for the benefite of the Common-wealth , as Aristotle declareth in his 5 Booke of the Ethickes , Cap. 1. Secondlie : Debitum obedientiae , the debt of Obedience , which wee owe to our Superioures , is not onlie debitum morale , a debt or duetie , vnto which wee are tyed by morall honestie , and GOD'S commandement , but also debitum legale , or debitum justitiae , ( quod viz. fundatur in proprio jure alterius ) a debt grounded vpon the true and proper right , which our Superioures haue to exact this duetie of vs ; so that they may accuse vs of injurie , and censure vs , if wee performe it not . There is great difference betwixt these two sorts of debt ; and the last is farre more obligatorie , than the first : As for example , A man oweth moneys to the poore , by a morall debt , but to his creditor hee oweth them by a legall debt , or debt of justice : And therefore , hee is more strictlie oblieged to pay his creditor , than to giue almes . Such-lyke , by morall honestie , and GOD'S precept also , a man oweth to his neyghbour , a pious carefulnesse , to impede sinne in him , by admonition , instruction , good example , and by omission even of thinges lawfull , when hee foreseeth that his neyghbour in respect of his weaknesse , will bee scandalized by them . But his neyghbour hath not such a right to exact these thinges of him , neyther can hee haue action agaynst him , for not performing of them , as our lawfull Superioures haue for our due obedience .

In what sense the Administration of the SACRAMENTS , in private places , was thought indifferent in PEARTH ASSEMBLIE .

52. In our Replye wee professed , that wee can not abstayne presentlie from private Baptisme , and private Communion , beeing requyred to administrate these Sacraments to such persons , as can not come , or bee brought to the Church . Hence , first , yee take occasion to object to vs , that the state of the question concerning Pearth Articles , is quyte altered , in respect wee and our associates , did ever before alleadge the question to bee of things indifferent , but now we thinke them to bee so necessarie , that altho the Generall Assemblie of the Church should discharge them , wee behoved still to practise them : Wee answere , first , that the Assemblie of Pearth hath determined nothing , of the indifferencie or necessitie of these thinges . Secondlie : If anie who allowed these Articles , did at that tyme in their discourses and speaches call them indifferent , they meaned onlie , that in the celebration of these Sacramentes , the circumstances of place and tyme are thinges indifferent of their owne nature : or , which is all one , that wee are not so tyed to the administration of them in the Church , and at tymes appoynted for Sermon , but wee may celebrate them in private houses , and at other tymes . But judicious and Learned men , even then thought the denying of these Sacramentes to persons , who can not come , or bee brought to the Church , to bee a restrayning of the meanes of grace , altogether vnwarrandable by GOD'S word . Whence yee may collect , whether or not they thought it to bee vnlawfull . Thirdlie : Yee haue no warrand from our Replye , to say , that wee would not abstayne from private Baptisme , and Communion , altho our Nationall Assemblie should discharge them . For as wee are verie vnwilling to omit anie necessarie Duetie of our Calling : so wee carrie a singular respect to lawfull Authoritie , and to the Peace , and Unitie of the Church ; abhorring Schisme , as the verie Pest of the Church . But of this wee shall speake heereafter in the thirteenth Duplye .

53. Next , yee say , if wee haue the same judgement of Kneeling , in the receaving of the Communion , and of Feastivall dayes , it commeth to passe among vs which hath beene incident to the Church in former ages , that thinges haue beene first brought in as indifferent , then vrged as necessarie . Certaynlie , Brethren , none are so guiltie of this , as your selues , and your associates : for yee haue now made some thinges to be esteemed necessarie by your followers , which haue beene accounted indifferent , not onlie since the Reformation , but these fifteene hundreth yeares by-gone . And in some other thinges , which the auncient Church did wyselie forbid , yee doe now make the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell to consist . As for vs , wee stand as wee stood before , and doe yet thinke Kneeling in the receaving of the Sacrament , and the fiue Feastivall dayes , to bee Rites indifferent in their owne nature ; but indeede verie profitable , and edificatiue , if Pastors would doe their duetie in making their people sensible , of the lawfulnesse and expediencie of them .

54. Wee are of the same judgement concerning Confirmation , which CALVIN , wryting vpon HEBR. 6. 2. acknowledgeth , To haue beene vndoubtedlie delyvered to the Church , by the Apostles : and with the same Author , in the fourth booke of his Institut. Cap. 19 , §. 14. wee wish , That the vse of it were agayne restored : so farre are we from that partiall dealing with the Articles of Pearth , which yee object vnto vs . What hath moved our most Reverende Prelates , to abstayne hitherto from the practising of it , wee know not : they can themselues best satisfie you in this poynt . And wee modestlie judge , that this omission hath proceeded from weyghtie & regardable causes . It was sufficient for vs , to haue a care of our owne dueties , in our particular stations . But the vrging and pressing of that practise vpon the Bishops , requyreth higher Authoritie , than ours . In the meane tyme , ye know the Bishops never disclaymed the Authoritie of that Act of Pearth , concerning Confirmation , or of any other of these Acts , as yee haue done , who haue beene hitherto professed and avowed disobeyers of them all . Wherefore wee wish you , heereafter not to bring this omission of the Bishops , in the matter of Confirmation , as an Argument for that forbearance of Pearth Articles , which yee requyre of vs : for there is a great difference betwixt the omission of a duetie commanded by a Law , and an avowed , or professed , yea , sworne disobedience of the Law .

55. Last of all , whereas ye say , that we , by maintaining the necessitie of private Baptisme & Communion , doe condemne the practise of this our Church , from the Reformation , till Pearth Assemblie , & put no small guiltinesse vpon other Reformed Churches , who vse not private Baptisme and Communion at all , but abstayne from them as dangerous : wee answere , that wee haue , in all modestie , proponed our owne judgement , concerning private Baptisme , and private Communion , neminem judicantes ( as CYPRIAN sayde of olde , in consilio Carthag . in praefat. ) nor taking vpon vs , to censure or condemne the practise eyther of this Church , in tymes preceeding Pearth Assemblie , or of other Reformed Churches . Wee can not indeede denye , but wee dissent from them : and if this bee a condemning of them , wee may no lesse justlie say to you , that you condemne the Practise and Doctrine not onlie of our Reformers , in the particulars mentioned before in this same DVPLYE , but also of dyverse Reformed Churches , and of the Ancient Church , as wee declared in our sixt DEMAND , and shall agayne speake of it in our sixt DVPLYE .

A DEFENCE OF OVR DOCTRINE and PRACTISE , concerning the Celebration of BAPTISME and the LORD'S SVPPER , in private places .

56. Yee desire vs , wyselie to consider , whether the desire which our people haue of Baptisme and Communion , in tyme of sicknesse , bee not occasioned by prevayling of Poperie , and through a superstitious conceat that people haue of these Sacraments , as necessarie to salvation . Wee are loath to come short of you in dueties of charitie , espciallie in good wishes ; and therefore , wee lykewyse wish you , wyselie to consider , whether the neglect of these Sacraments in the tyme of sicknesse , which is in manie parts of the Kingdome , proceede not from some want of a sufficient knowledge , and due esteeme of the fruites of these High and Heavenlie mysteries .

57. It is well that yee acknowledge , that we minister these Sacraments in private , as necessarie onelie by the necessitie of the commandement of GOD ; but with all yee conceaue , that our people imagine , or seeme to imagine them to bee so necessarie meanes , as that GOD hath tyed his grace to them . Wee desire you to judge charitablie of those who are vnknowne to you ; and with all wee declare , that neyther wee doe teach our people , nor doe they thinke , for ought wee did ever know , that Baptisme is so necessarie a meane vnto salvation , that without it God can not , or will not saue anie : yea , on the contrarie , wee are confident , that when Baptisme is earnestlie sought for , or vnfeygnedlie desired , and yet can not bee had , the Prayers of the Parentes , Ambrose in obitum Valentiniani . See Doctor Field in his 3. Booke of the Church , CAP. 32. and of the Church , are accepted by GOD , in stead of the ordinarie meane , the vse where-of is hindered , by vnavoidable necessitie : and so in this wee depart from the rigid tenet of Papistes . On the other part , wee lykewyse teach , and accordinglie our people learne , that BAPTISME is the ordinarie meane of our enterance into the CHVRCH , and of our REGENERATION ; to the vse where-of , GOD , by His Commaundement , hath tyed vs .

58. If the Commaundement of our SAVIOUR , MATTH. 28.19 . Goe yee , there-fore , and teach all Nations , baptizing them , In the Name of the Father , and of the Sonne , and of the holie Ghost , tye not Parentes to seeke Baptisme to their Children , and Pastors to administer , when it is sought , then haue wee no commaundement at all , for baptizing of Infantes , which is an Anabaptisticall absurditie : But if Parentes and Pastors , are tyed by this Commaundement , then Parents ought to seeke Baptisme , to their dying Children , not baptized before : ( for then , or never ) and Pastors must accordinglie performe that Duetie then , which is incumbent vpon them . This is that which KING JAMES of blessed memorie , in a Conference at Hampton-Court , pag. 17 , reporteth him-selfe , to haue aunswered to a Scotish Minister , whyle hee was in Scotland : The Minister asked , If hee thought Baptisme so necessarie , that if it bee omitted , the Chyld should bee damned ? No , sayde the King ; but if you beeing called to baptize the Chyld , though privatelie , should refuse to come , I thinke you should bee damned .

59. Yee say , ( to avoyde the strength of this Argument ) that the necessitie of the Commandement , standeth onlie for Baptisme in publicke ; and , that no Praecept requyreth Baptisme , but when it can bee had orderlie , with all the circumstances thereof : whereof yee say this is one , that it bee administred in the presence of that visible Kirke , whereof the Children are to bee members . Thus , first , yee condemne as vnlawfull the administration of Baptisme even in the Church , God-fathers , and God-mothers , beeing present , if the whole Congregation bee not present there ; and the lyke doctrine wee finde in others , also cited on the Margine , Altare Damascen , pag. 828. & 853. Re-examination of the Assemblie of Pearth , pag. 227. which soundeth so harshlie in the eares of some of your owne adherentes , that they can not bee perswaded that this is your doctrine . Secondlie : The commandement of CHRIST tying vs to Baptisme , hath no such addition eyther of the presence of the Congregation , or yet of the materiall Kirke . This belongeth but to the Solemnitie , and not to the necessarie lawfull vse of Baptisme . Where GOD hath tyed this solemnitie to Baptisme , yee can not show by holie Scripture : but where GOD hath tyed vs to Baptisme , wee haue alreadie showne . It is true , Solemnities should not bee lightlie omitted : but the Law sayeth , When evident equitie requyreth , ●n regulis ●uris , leg. 42. they may bee dispensed with : for according to that same Law , That which is chiefe and principall , should not bee ruled by that which is accessorie , but contrariwyse . As for the place of Baptisme , wee may say of it , as Tertullian sayeth of the tyme thereof , in the 19 Chapter of his Booke of Baptisme , Everie day is the LORD'S , everie houre , day , and tyme , is fitte for Baptisme : it may want of the Solemnitie , but nothing of the grace . Neyther is such a number , as yee requyre to bee present , necessarie in this case . Our Saviour hath taught vs , MATTH. 18.19 , That if two shall agree on Earth , as touching anie thing that they shall aske , it shall bee done for them , of His Father which is in Heaven : For , sayeth Hee , where two or three are gathered together in my Name , there am I in the midst of them . Wee beseech you , therefore , Brethren , to take heede , that yee prescrybe not to mens consciences , Rites of necessitie , without cleare warrand from God's word , by which yee will never bee able to prooue the necessitie of this circumstance requyred by you in Baptisme .

60. The practise of the Prtmitiue Church , both in the Apostles tymes , and thereafter , agreeth with this doctrine and practise of ours . Saynct PHILIP baptized the Eunuch on the waye , ACTS 8. ANANIAS baptized Saul in a private house , ACTS 9. Saynct PAVL baptized the Iaylour in his house , ACTS 16. If yee answere as others doe , that the necessitie of the infancie of the Church , excused the want of the presence of a Congregation : wee replye , that the same necessitie is found in the cases whereof wee speake : for as vnpossible it is for a dying Infant , who about Mid-night is at the last gaspe , to enjoy the presence of the Congregation , as it was impossible for anie of the afore-mentioned , the Eunuch , Saul , or the Jaylour , to haue had a Congregation present at their Baptisme , yea , more impossible ; and why should there not bee the same effect , where there is the same reason ?

61. The Practise of the Auncient Church , in this , is also cleare for vs . This is manifest from the 76 Epistle of S. Cyprian , from the Oration of Gregorie Nyssen , agaynst them who delayed their Baptisme , from S. Basill , Gregorie Nazianzen . Orat. ●0 . in his 13 Homilie , which is an Exhortation to Baptisme , Tom. 1 , from Gregorie Nazianzen , in his 40 Oration , whose wordes wee haue cited vpon the margine . Hence altho two set-tymes were appoynted , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Vpon these wordes , NICETAS , his Interpreter , speaketh thus ; Baptismum suscipe quamdiu minime circum te pugnant is qui te baptismi aqua tingare parat , & qui poecuniarum ●uarum hares futurus est . Ille videlic●● studi●se agens atque contendens vt ea quae ad vitae exitum necessaria sunt , suppeditet , hoc est , vt te salutari aqua tingat & dominicum corpus impertiat , hic contra vt testamento hares scribatur . for Solemne Baptisme , yet the case of necessitie was ever excepted . This is cleare by the fore-sayde Testimonies , as also by these following , Siricius Epist. 1. Cap. 2. Tom. 1. Concil. Gelas . Epist. 9. ad Episcopos Lucaniae , Tom. 2. Concil. Conc. Antisiodor . Cap. 18. Tom. 2. Conc. Matiscon . 2. Cap. 3. Tom. 2. Concil. Conc. Meldens . Cap. 48. Conc. Triburiens . Cap. 12. Concil. in Palatio Vernis Cap. 7. Conc. Wormatiens . Cap. 1. Tom. 3. Concil. The learned Causabon , in his 16 Exercitation , considering all this , sayeth , Woe to them , that in the administration of this SACRAMENT , denye their duetie to dying Infantes , vnder pretence of I knowe not what Discipline . To this same purpose the learned Martin Bucer , in the 15 Chapter of his Censure of the ENGLISH LITVRGIE , considering Baptisme of sicke Infantes privatelie , sayeth , In this Constitution , all thinges are holilie set downe . This same Practise also is allowed by Doctor Whitaker , in his Booke agaynst REYNOLDS , Pag. 48.

62. The Congregation , say yee , where-of the Chylde is to bee a member , hath interest in this , and there-fore ought to bee present , no lesse than at Excommunication , where-by a rotten member is cut off . In this case of necessitie , there is no prejudice eyther to the Chylde , or to the Congregation , thorow the want of the Congregations presence : for there is no neglect , nor contempt of the Congregation in this case , or of anie of the members there-of : and the Chylde by Baptisme , though privatelie administred , is ingrafted into CHRIST , and so beeing joyned to the head of the Church , becommeth also vnited vnto the Church , which is His Bodie . If Excommunication requyre the presence of the whole Congregation , because the power of binding and loosing , is delyeered by CHRIST to everie particular Church , or Congregation , collectiuelie taken as it is affirmed in the Dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , Part. 3. Cap. 8. Pag. 182 , then it is not alyke with Baptisme , the power where-of is committed to the Pastors of the Church , MATTH. 28. But altho that ground bee not true , as wee thinke it is not , yet Excommunication is done in presence of the People . For this censure may not bee inflicted , but onelie for publicke offences ; and therefore must be publiekc , as the offence is , That others also may feare , 1. TIM. 5.20 . and haue no companie with the delinquent , that hee may bee ashamed , 2. THESS. 3.14 . and so your similitude holdeth not .

63. As for the administring of the Sacrament of the LORD'S Supper , wee say it is most profitable , for comforting of the Soules of men , fighting with the terroures of Death ; and that the case may fall out , wherein they most ardentlie desire it , and consequentlie , that Pastors who are the Stewards of GOD'S House , ought not to denye to his Children , so hungring and thirsting in this conflict , that heavenlie refreshment : which wee are not ashamed , with the ancient Fathers , to call , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , or Viaticum , though yee seeme to condemne this . It is manifest by the writings of the ancient Fathers : Justine Martyr , in his 2 Apologie : Eusebius , in the 6 Booke of his Storie , 36 Chapter , and others , that the Sacrament was administred to sicke persons privatelie . Concilium Nicenum , Can. 13. The famous O Ecumenicke Councell of Nice , in the 13 Canon , and second part there-of , appoynteth the same , or rather confirmeth the ancien Lawes there-anent . The lyke wee may see in the 76 Canon , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 &c. of the fourth Councell of Carthage . See Balsamon also , vpon the 20 Canon of the Councell of Carthage , where speaking of dying persons , hee sayeth , That the LORD'S Supper should bee carefullie administred vnto them ; and Baptisme , if they bee not baptized . Hence Bishop Jewell , in his Dispute agaynst Hurdings , PAG. 32. sayeth , That certayne godlie persons , both Men and Women , in tyme of persecution , or of sicknesse , or of other necessitie , receaved the Sacrament in their houses , it is not denyed . The Ancient Fathers also call this Sacrament viaticum , or a provision for our journey . So the Fathers , in the fourth Councell of Carthage , speake , Canon 78. So Gaudentius in his second Treatise on Exodus . So in Saynct Basill his Liturgie , wee finde this PRAYER , that the participation of these sacred things , may bee the viaticum of eternall lyfe . So Concil. Vas . 1. Can. 2. So Paulinus in vita Ambrosii . Whence Causabon , in his answere to the Epistle of Cardinall Perron● , PAG. 49 , sayeth , The Church of England not onlie distributeth , the mysticall bread to the faythfull in the publicke Congregation , but also administrateth to dying persons this viaticum , as the Fathers of the Councell of Nice , and all Antiquitie , Balsamon his words are , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . call it .

64. Learned Calvine was of this mynde : Manie and weyghtie reasons , sayeth hee , Epist. 361. moue mee to thinke , that the Communion should not bee denyed to sicke Persons . ZEPPERVS , in his first Booke of Ecclesiasticall policie , and 12 Chapter , hath these words of this matter , One thing remayneth yet to bee resolved , to wit , concerning the Communion of sicke persons . Albeit some thinke otherwyse , yet it seemeth , that the holie Supper may not , nor ought not , to bee denyed to them that seeke it . For if it was appoynted for the confirming of our fayth , and increase of our Communion with CHRIST ; if wee ought by the vse of it to testifie our fayth and studie of repentance ; why should they bee depryved of so great a good , who fight with long d●seases , or are in danger of their lyfe ? When doeth Satan labour more stronglie to shake and brangle our fayth , than when wee are exercysed with bodilie diseases ? When doe our consciences tremble more , and stand in neede , of the most ample corroboration of fayth , than when wee finde that death is knocking at the doore , and that wee are called to compeare before the Tribunall of God ? HIERONYMVS ZANCHIVS , is of the same mind . Thus he wryteth in an Epistle of his to John Crato , Physician to the Emperour , I haue nothing to say of the question proponed by you , but that I subscrybe to your judgement , provyding this bee done when necessitie requyreth , and it bee administred to them , who through sicknesse , cannot come foorth with others in publicke . For since CHRIST denyeth this to none of his Disciples , how can wee refuse it to sicke persons , who desire it before they depart hence , and that not out of anie Superstition , but that their myndes may bee the more comforted , and raysed vp ? MARTINE BVCER , in the 22 Chapter of his fore mentioned censure , considering that part of the LITVRG●E , where-in the administrating of the Communion to sicke persons is set downe , sayeth , Thinges heere commanded , are agreeable anough to holie Scripture : for it avayleth not a little , to the comforting of troubled Soules , to receaue the Communion of the LORD . Yea , hee hath written a particular and most devote Treatise , directing Pastors how to administer the Communion to sicke persons : and yet , wee trust , yee will not call him a Papist , since hee was so hatefull to Papists , that after hee was dead , they raysed vp his bones , and burnt them . PETER MARTYR , wryting vpon the tenth Chapter of the first Epistle to the CORINTH . speaking of the LORD'S Supper , hath these wordes , They say it must bee given to sicke persons : I confesse , sayeth hee , but the mysterie may bee celebrated before the sicke persons . It is to bee remarked also , that often-tymes it falleth out , that some persons are affixed to their beds by sicknesse , for the space of fiue or sixe , yea , ten yeares , or more : And how can we denye the comfort of this holie Sacrament to those all that space , especiallie when they earnestlie long for it ?

65. This doctrine and practise of ours , tendeth not to the contempt of the Sacraments , ( as yee would beare vpon it ) it is playne contrarie : for by this practise , wee show , how much wee reverence the Commandement of GOD , and how highlie wee esteeme of his ordinances , which wee so earnestlie seeke after ; whereas on the other part , the practise of others , leadeth people to the contempt of the Sacraments , because they are moved there-by , to thinke , that there is no such necessitie and efficacie in them , as Scripture , and the consent of Christians , hath ascrybed there-vnto . As for other abuses , rehearsed by you , as fruites of private Baptisme , since you bring no proofe for what yee say in this , wee oppone our just denyall , to your bare and vnjust assertion .

66. Lastlie , yee advertise the Reader , that yee thinke not the materiall Churches , but the ordinarie meetinges , necessarie to the lawfull administration of the Sacraments , lest anie should conceaue that yee entertayne a Superstitious conceat of places . Wee thinke , yee might haue spared this advertisement : for we finde , that they who oppugne our doctrine and practise in this poynt , are so farre from beeing in danger of the extremitie mentioned by you , Altare Damascen , pag. 341. dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , PART . 3. CAP. 1. SECT. 2. Re-examination of the Article● of Pearth , pag. 143 that on the contrarie they teach , that the Church is a Place no more holie , than anie other , and that it may bee indifferentlie vsed to sacred or civill vses : which in our judgment is not agreeable , eyther to holie Scripture , or to sound Antiquitie . See Eusebius in his Ecclesiasticke Historie , Lib. 10. Cap. 3. Chrysost. homil. 36. on the first Epistle to the CORINTHIANS , S. Augustine , in his first Booke of the citie of GOD , Cap. 1. Codex Theodasianus , Lib. 9. Titul. 45. de his qui ad Ecclesias confugerunt . Conc. Gangrens . Can. 21.

THE V. DVPLY .

THE indifferent Reader may perceaue , by our former DVPLYE , that your ANSWRE to our first exception , taken from the obedience , due to Authoritie , and from our judgement , concerning the administration of BAPTISME , and the LORD'S Supper , to dying persons in private places , hath not given satisfaction .

2. Wee asked of you , in our fift DEMAND , how wee can Subscrybe the Negatiue Confession , as it is propounded by you , without contradicting the Positiue Confession , approved by Parliament , holden Anno 1567 , since the Positiue Confession , CHAP. 21 , declareth , that Rites are changeable , according to the exigencie of tyme , and consequentlie that no perpetuall Law , may or ought to bee made of them , and the Negatiue Confession maketh a perpetuall Law , concerning the externall Rites of the Church ; at least according to your judgement , who vrge the Subscryving of this Covenant and Confession vpon vs ? Wee vrged farther in our Replye , that the Late Covenant bindeth vs to the Olde Covenant , made Anno 1581 ; for by your Late Covenant , yee professe your selues bound to keepe the foresayde Nationall Oath ( as yee call it ) inviolable : and that Olde Covenant , or Oath , bindeth vs to the Discipline which was then ; and that Discipline comprehendeth all the externall Rites of it , ( as yee haue in all your Wrytinges professed , especiallie in that late Booke entituled , The Dispute against the English Popish Ceremonies : whence in your Sermones , and printed Bookes , since the Assemblie of Pearth , yee haue beene still accusing vs of Perjurie . ) So from the first , to the last , the Late Covenant bindeth vs to the Policie which was then ; and consequentlie , maketh a Perpetuall Lawe , concerning the RITES of the CHVRCH , as if they were vnchangeable .

3. Your Answere to this Argument , is not sufficient , nor to the purpose . 1. Yee put off , without anie Answere , that which wee alleadge out of A Dispute , agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies ; and , in stead of answering , wish , that what wee haue thence , or from anie other Treatise of that kinde , were keeped to another tyme . Pardon vs , that wee wish greater ingenuitie , and a more direct Answere . Consider the wordes of that Treatise before cited , Parte 4. Cap. 8. Sect. 8. No man amongst vs can certaynlie knowe , that the Discipline meaned and spoken of in the Oath , by those that sweare it , comprehendeth not vnder it those poyntes of Discipline , for which wee nowe contende , and which this Church had in vse at the swearing of the Oath . Shall wee , then , put the breach of the Oath in a fayre hazard ? GOD forbid . The same wee finde to bee the judement of others also , who haue opposed the Articles of Pearth , and Episcopall Governement . Since , there-fore , wee desire to bee resolved , concerning the right meaning of the Negatiue Confession ; lest by it wee contradict the Positiue Confession , approved in Parliament : Had wee dot reason to propone this Difficultie to you , who requyre our Subscription , and came hither , to resolue our Scruples ? If yee condemne the judgement of these your Brethren , who were Authors of these Treatises , why doe yee not openlie professe , that yee , and the rest of the Authors of the Late Couenant , disallowe it ? If yee doe approue it , as wee haue great reason to thinke yee doe , since yee haue still opposed the Articles of Pearth , and Episcopacie , and doe expresslie referre vs to those Treatises , in your nynth Answere : Howe doe yee not see , that , with a good conscience , yee can not requyre vs , to sweare , and subscrybe , that which yee knowe to bee contrarie to our mynde ? Remember , we pray you , the words of the former Treatise , in the place before cited , Put the case , it were doubtfull and questionable , what is meaned by the word DISCIPLINE in the OATH ; yet pars tutior , the safer way were to bee chosen ; which is affirmed there to bee this : That the poyntes practised by vs , are abjured in the Negatiue Confession .

4. Secondlie : where-as yee saye , That none of you would refuse to sweare the Short Confession , because wee haue expounded some Articles of it contrarie to your mynde ▪ wee replye , that this Answere satisfieth not : for your swearing the Negatiue Confession , not-with-standing of the contrarie Interpretation of them who differ in judgement from you , showeth not , howe the apparent Contradiction betwixt it , and the Positiue Confession , objected by vs , is reconciled by you the propounders and vrgers of it . More-over , If wee did vrge you to subscrybe the Negatiue Confession , when in the meane tyme wee were perswaded , that our Interpretation of the Articles there-of , were contrarie to your judgement ; wee were bound to labour to informe your judgement , before wee did exact your Oath : and , consequentlie , by the lawe of Charitie and Equitie , yee are obliedged , not to requyre our Oath , till first yee doe that , which is sufficient , to make our judgement conforme to yours : which as yet yee haue not done .

5. Thirdlie : Yee saye , Your desire is , that both of vs keepe our meaning of the Negatiue Confession , according to our diverse measures of light , and onelie promise Forbearance : which , yee saye , wee may doe , because that wee thinke the poyntes controverted , to bee indifferent : wee answere , That yee still flee the poynt in question : for it is an-other thing for vs , to keepe our meaninges , and another thing for vs , to sweare a Covenant , when wee are not perswaded of the trueth there-of . Yee might , and may still enjoye your meaning for vs : but howe wee can keepe our meaning , and subscrybe your Covenant , wee see not ; since wee thinke the one repugnant to the other . Neyther is it Forbearance onelie that is requyred , as we haue showne before ; nor yet can we sweare Forbearance , the Lawe standing still in vigour , and Authoritie requyring Obedience . Lastlie : Wee thinke not all the poyntes contraverted , to bee indifferent , as was before declared .

6. Thus it may appeare , howe yee haue dealt with our SORITES , as yee call it . The lyke dealing wee find anent our DILEMMA ; the Hornes whereof , ( as yee speake ) yee labour to turne agaynst our selues , by asking , To which of the members of the Distinction , we referre Pearth articles and Episcopacie ? If , say ye , they were abjured in the Negatiue Confession , we are perjured for the practising of them : and if left indifferent , by that Confession , wee may , not-with-standing of that Confession , forbeare the practise of them . First , Your Question is not pertinent : For the Distinction is not ours , but yours . And to what purpose is it to you , to knowe , to what member of your Distinction , wee referre the Articles of Pearth , and Episcopacie ? Secondlie : There is no strength in eyther of the Hornes of your DILEMMA : For , by turning it wrong , you haue made it your owne . The one Horne is , That if the Articles of Pearth , and Episcopacie , bee left indifferent , by the Short Confession , wee may forbeare the practise of them . First , This meeteth not the Horne of our Dilemma , which was , if wee bee not tyed , by the Negatiue Confession , to the omission of these thinges ; then why haue yee , in all your Wrytinges agaynst vs , exprobrated to vs , Perjurie , for violating of the Oath contained in that Confession ? To this no word by you is aunswered heere . Secondlie : Suppone these thinges were left indifferent by the Negatiue Confession ; yet may wee not forbeare the practise of them : because , since that Confession , Lawes haue passed on them ; which remaining in vigour , requyre our Obedience , as wee sayde before .

7. The other Horne of your Dilemma , is , that if these poyntes were abjured for ever , before Pearth Assemblie , then wee , who practise them , are perjured . To which wee aunswere , That it followeth not : for wee never did sweare to that Negatiue Confession . And there-fore , though these poyntes were abjured there-in , yet are wee free from all guiltinesse of Perjurie . And , in the meane tyme , yee haue not resolved , howe hee who is perswaded , of the lawfulnesse of those poyntes , can sweare the Negatiue Confession , if by it the Swearer bee tyed , to the abjuring of those poyntes , which was the other part of our Dilemma . Thus , if yee will consider rightlie , ye may perceaue , that , our Dilemma standeth vnmoved , with the Hornes of it still towards you . Yee farther insinuate , that our Reasons , are not solide and graue , but velitations of such a sort as yee looked not for . Let the judicious Reader , pronounce his sentence of this ; onelie wee wish , that yee had chosen rather to satisfie , than to contemne our Reasons . That which yee heere agayne adde , concerning the change of Commissioners , is answered in our fourth DVPLYE .

8. To giue light to your former Discourse , yee subjoyne a Distinction of Discipline , into three members : First , yee saye , It is taken for the Rule of Governement of the Church , and Censure of Manners , by Office-bearers appoynted by CHRIST : and thus , yee saye , it is vnchangeable . Secondlie ; For Constitutions of Councells , and Actes of Parliament , about matters of Religion : And thus , yee say , it is alterable , or constant , according to the nature of particular Objectes . Thirdlie : For the ordering of Circumstances , to bee observed in all actions , Divine , and Humane : and so yee say it is variable . First by these Distinctions , the matter seemeth rather to bee obscured , than cleared . For ye doe not expresse , in which of these senses the Discipline mentioned in the Negatiue Confession , is to bee taken , which was the poynt requyred of you .

9. Secondlie : Yee seeme by this Distinction , to intangle your selues yet more . For , first , if yee take the name of Discipline , in anie one , or anie two of these senses , what say yee to these following wordes of your Dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , Parte 4. Cap. 8. Sect. 8 ? The Bishop doeth but needleslie question , what is meaned by the Discipline where-of the Oath speaketh . For howsoever in Ecclesiasticall vse , it signifieth often-tymes , that Policie , which standeth in the censuring of Manners ; yet in the Oath it must bee taken in the largest sense ; namelie , for the whole Policie of the Church . For , 1. The whole Policie of this Church , did , at that tyme , goe vnder the name of Discipline : and those two Bookes wherein this Policie is contayned , were called The Bookes of Discipline . And without all doubt , they who sware the Oath , meaned by Discipline , that whole Policie of the Church which is contayned in those Bookes .

10. Secondly , when that Little Confession was framed , the Government of the Church was onlie by Presbyters , and not by Bishops : and , there-fore , if yee thinke , that the name of Discipline , in that Confession , comprehendeth vnder it the first part of your Distinction , ( which , as wee conceaue , yee will not denye ) yee may easilie perceaue , that wee are vrged by you , to sweare , and subscrybe , agaynst our Consciences ; since wee thinke the Rule of the Governement of the Church , which then was , to bee changeable ; and , that the Governement was lawfullie chaunged , by following Assemblies , and Parliamentes , from Presbyters , to Bishops .

11. Thirdlie : If these Constitutions of Councels , concerning Objects alterable , mentioned in the second member of your Distinction , bee one , and the same , with ordering of variable Circumstances , mentioned in the third member ; why haue yee distinguished the one from the other ? But , if they bee different , then yee graunt , that Ecclesiasticke Constitutions , may bee made concerning some alterable matters of Religion , which are not bare Circumstances ; which is repugnant to your ordinarie Doctrine ; See the Dispute against the English Popish Ceremonies , part. 3. cap. 7. sect. 5. where-by yee mayntayne , that nothing changeable , is lest to the Determination of the Church , in matters of Religion ; but onelie Circumstances of Actions . Wee can not see , howe yee can mayntayne this Doctrine , and yet oppose the Determinations of the Church , concerning Ceremonies , which are indifferent .

12. Wee had reason to inquyre your judgement , concerning Rites or Ceremonies , which are not of Divine Institution , whether they bee lawfull , or not , though yee still shunne the declaring of it . Since by your Covenant , yee intende a reformation of Religion , and a recovering of the Libertie , and Puritie of the Gospell , as yee speake ; if yee in your judgement , condemne such Ceremonies , ( as yee insinuate ) wee can not expect , but that , if yee obtayne your desires , all such Rites shall bee expelled and condemned , especiallie since by this your Late Covenant , yee tye your selues to that Olde Covenant , where-in yee disclayme and detest all Rites brought into the Church , The late Confession of Helvetia , cap. 27. Confession of Bohemia , cap. 15. English Confession , art. 15. Confessio of Auspurg , art. 15. art. 7. Confession of Wirtemberg . art. 35. Confession of Sweueland , cap. 14. Calvin . Institut. lib. 4. cap. 10. §. 30. Oecolampadius Epist. Lib. 4. pag. 818. Zepperus Polit. Eccles , pag. 138.142.143 . Zanchius , in quarium Praeceptum , Melanchthon , in manie places , &c. without the word of GOD. Now , wee can not concurre with you , for promoving this ende , because such a judgement , is playne contrarie to ours , yea , contrarie to the vniversall judgement and practise , of the Auncient Kirke , repugnant also to the judgement of the Protestant Churches , and most famous Divynes therein , as may appeare by the quotations on the margine . But if yee bee of the same mynde with vs , and thinke , that there are some Rites of that kynde lawfull , why doe you hide your mynde from vs , and others , since the acknowledgement and manifesting of this Trueth , would bee no small advancement to your cause , by removing this great offence ?

Of Matrimoniall Benediction , and God-fathers in Baptisme .

13. As for solemne blessing of Marriage , wee asked , what warrand yee had for it , by Praecept or Practise , set downe in GOD'S word . In your Answere yee insinuate , that it is a blessing of the people commanded in the Law , and more playnlie wee finde this set downe in the Dispute , agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , PART . 3. CAP. 2. SECT. 10. Yet playne it is from Scripture it selfe , that Matrimoniall Benediction , ought to bee given by a Pastor , for GOD hath commanded His Ministers , to blesse His people , ( NVM. 6. ) First , who ever before you , did ground the necessitie of solemne blessing of Marriage vpon these words , NVM. 6.23 . Speake vnto Aaron , and vnto his sonnes , saying , On this wyse yee shall blesse the children of Israel , saying vnto them : The LORD blesse thee , and keepe thee : &c. Learned Melanchton , was not so well versed in Scriptures , as to see this . For hee sayeth in his Epistles , Pag. 328. Yee see that the Rite of the Auncients is , that the Brydegroome and Bryde , are joyned before the Altar , in the sight of GOD , and with the incalling of GOD. Which custome vndoubtedlie hath beene ordained by the first Fathers , that wee may consider that this conjunction was appoynted by GOD , and is assisted by Him .

14. Secondlie : By this commandement of GOD , to blesse the people , NVM. 6. eyther there is a necessitie layde vpon the Church , to blesse Marriages solemnlie , or not . If yee say , there is not a necessitie , then there is no commandement of GOD there-anent , for it is necessarie to obey GOD'S Commandement . If yee say , there is a necessitie , what say yee then to your Friend Didoclaue , who in his Altar of Damascus , Pag. 866 , affirmeth , that neyther the presence of the Congregation , nor blessing of the Minister , is necessarie to this action ? And if yee dissent heere-in from him , yee are holden to prooue your opinion , by a necessarie consequence from holie Scripture , which wee are perswaded yee are not able to doe .

15. Thirdlie : The Commaundement , To blesse the people , is no lesse , if not more generall , than that , 1. COR. 14.40 . Let all thinges bee done decentlie , and in order : on the which wordes , both Auncient and Recent Divines , doe ground the lawfullnesse of the Ceremonies which wee allowe .

16. Fourthlie : Since that Commaundement , of blessing the People , is generall , what reason haue yee , for not including other civill important Contractes , especiallie that are performed with a Vowe , or Promissorie Oath ? A Vowe made to GOD , is a COVENANT with GOD , as well as the Matrimoniall Oath . All Vowes and Oaths , are Acts of Religious Worship , although they bee joyned to Civill Contractes : and , there-fore , if because of the COVENANT with GOD , yee blesse Marriage solemnlie , yee ought to doe the same , to other Civill Contractes , where-in there is the lyke COVENANT , by vertue of an Oath or Vowe .

17. Fiftlie : Where-as yee saye , that though Marriage were a Paction , meerlie Civill , yet because it is so important , yee would not with-holde Ecclesiasticke Benediction from it , not-with-standing of the abuse of Poperie : wee would vnderstand , howe this agreeth with the current Doctrine of those that are of your mynde : for wee reade in the Abridgement of Lincolne , Pag. 17 , that wee should cast away even such thinges , as had a good originall , ( if they bee not still necessarie , and commaunded of GOD ) when once they are knowne to bee defiled with Idolatrie , or abused by it . So in The Dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , Parte 3. Cap. 2. Sect. 2. it is affirmed , that Rites , Ancient , lawfull , and agreeable to GOD'S Word , should , not-with-standing , necessarilie bee abolished , because of their superstition , and wicked abuse . Yee adde , that yee will not vse Marriage superstitiouslie , according to the praescript of the Service-booke . Yee did not finde the Service-Booke , neyther in our Demaundes , nor in our Replyes ; yet wee knowe not , howe yee so often reach vnto it .

18. Lastlie : Of the Stipulation of God-fathers in Baptisme , instanced by vs , in our fift Demaund , yee haue spoken nothing particularlie , eyther in your first or second Aunsweres . Wee haue no Praecept , or example of it in holie Scripture : yea , some of our learned Divines affirme , that it was instituted by Pope Higynus : See PETER MARTYR , on the 6 CHAP. of the Epistle to the ROM. and GERARDVS , in Loc. Theolog. Tom. 4. and yee will not denye , that it hath beene much abused in Poperie . Howe commeth it to passe , then , that this Ceremonie is allowed , and vsed by some of you ? Wee saye , some ; for wee are informed , that some of your mynde , doe not vse it at all . See D. Morton , in his Defence of the three Ceremonies , Pag. 24.

THE VI. DVPLY .

IN your first Answere to our sixt Demaund , yee answered nothing to that , which wee affirmed concerning the judgement of Divynes , Auncient and Moderne , who eyther haue absolutelie allowed these Rites , which were concluded in Pearth Assemblie , or else haue thought them tolerable , and such as ought not to make a stirre in the Church : Neyther did yee touch that , which wee objected , concerning the venerable custome , and practise of the Auncient Church , and the most eminent lights of it , which yee condemne in your Interpretation of the Negatiue Confession , contayned in the Late Covenant . Wherefore , in our Replye to that Answere of yours , wee did holde your silence , for a granting of the Trueth of that which wee sayde , concerning so manie Divynes , Auncient and Moderne , who stand for vs . Now in your second Answere to that Demaund , yee labour to bereaue vs of this advantage , and granting that Divynes , both Auncient and Moderne , are agaynst you , concerning the the lawfulnesse of things controverted , ( a thing to be noted by the Reader , and which should make you more sparing in your speaches of vs who favour Pearth Articles , than yee are ) yee say , first , that Divynes , Auncient , and Moderne , are agaynst vs also : and that both these propositions may bee true , in respect they are both indefinite in a matter contingent . But our Propositions concerning the judgement of Divynes who stand for vs , was more than indefinite . For all-bee-it wee sayde not , that all are for vs ; yet wee sayde , that manie , yea , so manie ; meaning , that a great manie are for vs , and against you , in matters of lawfullnesse , and vnlawfullnesse ; and , consequentlie , in matters of Fayth . This expression of the number , yee were glad to passe by ; because yee can not saye the lyke of these , who favour your judgement , concerning the vnlawfullnesse of those thinges . For , scarce knowe wee anie Moderne Divines , without his Majesties Dominions , that peremptorlie condemne these Rites , as vnlawfull , which were concluded in Pearth Assemblie : and of Auntientes , wee meane the Fathers of the Auncient Church , wee knowe none at all , who are of your mynde . Howe is it , then , that for these your Newe Positions , yee make such stirre , and doe take such Dangerous Courses in hand ?

Secondlie : Yee saye , that allmost all Divines allowe of such a Forbearance , of thinges indifferent , as yee requyre of vs . But yee will not bee able to make this good : For , who of our Divines , haue anie-where allowed , in Subjectes such a Forbearance of thinges indifferent , and lawfull , as is conjoyned with a totall and sworne Disobedience of standing Lawes , agaynst the Prohibition of their Superioures ?

Thirdlie : That which yee saye , concerning Innovations allreadie introduced ; to wit , that no-thing is requyred of vs , concerning them , but a Forbearance of them for a tyme ; and , that wee may condescende to it , without eyther Disobedience to Authoritie , or wronging of our Flocke ; it is allreadie refuted , in the two former DVPLYES .

THE VII . DVPLY .

OUR REASON proponed in the seaventh DEMAND , is not sufficientlie aunswered , neyther the Impediment removed , as wee haue formerlie made manifest , especiallie in our fourth DVPLY , Where-as , for removing of our Scruple , concerning your Interpretation of the Short Confession , yee tell vs , that yee vrge not vpon vs your meaning , but leaue vs to our owne , till the matter be examined in an Assemblie : We aunswere ; Wee loue not the swearing of an Oath , without cleare Interpretation there-of ; and wee approue not Subscription of such a Covenant , with diverse , or doubtfull meaninges : neyther doe wee thinke that a convenient meane , for solid Pacification . And as wee are free , in professing our meaning , concerning the Pearth Articles , and Episcopie ; so wee requyre of you the lyke playnnesse , or then the reason of your Retyrednesse .

2. The Pearth Articles ye doe vnjustlie call Novations , if by this name yee vnderstand , thinges repugnant to our Reformed Religion , or forbidden by our Publicke Lawes : for these Articles are not of this sort . Those of them which wee call Necessarie , the Assemblie of Pearth did not conclude as indifferent , ( as yee alledge ) neyther can anie such thing be inferred from the words of the Actes of that Assemblie . There-fore , we haue no reason to change this opinion , as yee would haue vs to doe . Wee holde all the fiue poynts , to bee Lawfull , & Laudable , and some of them more than Indifferent , which also the wordes of the Synode it selfe doe implye : So that , without just reason , it hath pleased you to say , that thinges formerlie indifferent , are become necessarie ; and what was but lawfull before , and had much a-doe to gayne that Reputation , is nowe become Laudable . Thus , agayne , wee doe playnlie declare vnto you , that the cause of our vnwillingnesse to Subscrybe , or promise Forbearance , is both the Commaundement of Authoritie , and also the Necessitie and Excellencie of some of the thinges commaunded : besides that , wee thinke them all Lawfull , and Laudable . What wee would doe , at the Commandement of Authoritie , in the Forbearance of the Practise of those thinges , for the Peace of the Church , and Kingdome , shall bee declared in our DVPLY to your thirteenth ANSWERE , where-in yee vrge this poynt agayne .

THE VIII . DVPLY .

WHERE-AS yee doe remit the Reader , to your former Answere , and our Replye ; wee also remit him there-to , and to our first Duplye ; hoping that hee shall rest satisfied there-with .

2. Wee haue , in those places , aunswered your Argument , concerning your Swearing , the Defence of the King , and his Authoritie , with a Specification , as yee call it ; and haue showne , that what hath not beene looked to so narrowlie , in this matter heere-to-fore , is requisite nowe , for the Reasons expressed in our eyght Replye , and first Duplye . Concerning the full Expression , of the Loyaltie of your Intentions , to mayntayne the King's Person , and Honour ; whether , or not , yee haue given just Satisfaction , to those who are nearest to the King's Majestie , ( as yee saye ) wee referre you , and the Readers , to that , which yee , and they , will finde neare the ende of our first Duplye . Wee wonder greatlie , yee should affirme , that wee , by craving Resolution , doe wrong the King , and our selues ; or that yee , by giving of it , should wrong them who are nearest his Majestie , and also the Covenant , and the Subscrybers there-of . For our requyring of resolution , in this matter of so great importance , is a pregnant Argument of our loyaltie towards our dreade Soveraygne , and of our care , to haue alwayes our owne consciences voyd of offence , towards GOD , and towards Men. And your giving of satisfaction vnto vs , woulde haue served for farther clearing of your Covenant , and the subscriptions there-of . Your pretence , that by giving vs satisfaction , yee should wrong them who are nearest his Majestie , is grounded vpon a wrong supposition , as if they had alreadie receaved satisfaction by your Declaration .

3. GOD is witnesse , wee doe not wittinglie and willinglie multiplie doubts , for hindring a good worke , or to oppose agaynst a shyning light , ( as yee would haue the Reader to thinke of vs ) but in all humilitie , and vprightnesse of heart , doe declare our mynde , and doe intimate our vnaffected scruples . And wee thinke it verie pertinent , at this tyme , to craue resolution of them , and to desire your Answere , concerning this mayne duetie , which is not fullie expressed in your Covenant ; where-as a more full expression of it , had beene verie needfull , at this tyme .

4. Lastlie : Where-as yee complayne , that wee tooke not sufficient notice of you , whyle yee were amonst vs ; yee may easilie consider , that our publicke Charges , and Employmentes , together with the shortnesse of the tyme of your abode heere , doe sufficientlie vindicate vs , from anie imputation of Neglect in that kynde : and our doores were not closed , if it had pleased you , in Brotherlie kyndnesse , to haue visited vs : which wee ought rather to haue exspected of you , seeing yee came vndesired , to the place of our Stations , to deale with vs , and also to deale with our people , agaynst our will , before wee had receaved satisfaction .

THE IX . DVPLY .

AS yee doe referre the Reader , to your former Answeres ; so doe wee referre him to our former Replyes , and Duplyes .

2. The meaning of the Act of the Assemblie of Pearth , citing the wordes of the PSALME 95 , is not ( as yee doe interpret it ) anie perverting of the Text , neyther tendeth it to inferre there-vpon , absolute necessitie of Kneeling , in all worshipping of GOD , or in this part of His worship , in the celebration of the holie Communion : but onlie to inferre the Lawfullnesse , and commendable Decencie of Kneeling , in Divine Worship ; and that it is such a Gesture , as our lawfull Superioures may enjoyne to bee vsed , in GOD'S Worship ; and that Religious Adoration , and Kneeling , is to bee done to GOD onelie , altho they sinne not , who vse another Gesture , where this is not requyred by Authoritie , but another appoynted , or permitted .

3. Wee doe not kneele before the Sacramentall Elementes , making them the Object of our Adoration , eyther Mediate , or Immediate : neyther doeth the Act of Pearth Assemblie import anie such thing . But all our Adoration , both outward , and inward , is immediatelie directed to GOD onelie , with Prayer , and Thankes-giving , at the receaving of so great a Benefite . Where-fore , your objecting of Idolatrie , agaynst vs heere , and in your other Treatises , is moste vnjust . Wee marvell also , howe yee doe heere referre vs , to those Treatises , which in your twelfth Aunswere , yee seeme to disclayme , finding fault , that anie of vs should laye holde on them , or build anie thing vpon them . As lyke-wyse yee heere alleadge , That the Assemblie of Pearth made Kneeling necessarie in all poynts of GODS Worship ; and , consequentlie , in receaving the holie Eucharist : not remembering , that in your seaventh Aunswere , yee sayde , the Assemblie had concluded the fiue Articles as indifferent .

4. Concerning the Service-Booke , ( which now is not vrged ) wee haue alreadie answered . Neyther find wee anie reason , of your vncharitable construction of vs , or of the disposition of the people , as if they were now become Superstitious . Nor doeth this tyme giue anie just cause of such feares , as are sufficient to overthrowe the reasons of that Act of Pearth Assemblie .

5. Wee did not in malice , but in loue , say , that such a defence as yee professe heere , according to your Protestation , and such meetinges and conventions doe requyre the Kings consent , and Authoritie , to make them lawfull , according to our judgement : where-of some reasons wee haue expressed before in our second Replye , which as yet yee haue not satisfied .

6. It seemeth , that yee are eyther not able , or not willing , to answere particularlie and playnlie , to our intergatories proponed in our nynth Replye : and wee would vnderstand some reason , why yee doe so , in such a free and brotherlie conference ; seeing altho yee doe otherwyse interprete our meaning , yet truelie wee did not propone them to bee snares to you , but to obtayne satisfaction to our selues and others , for a peaceable ende . As for your questions , which yee throwe agaynst vs , with playne profession to worke vs discontentment thereby , we shall here make aunswere to them in meeknesse , and evident demonstration of our peaceable disposition .

QVAEST . Answered .

7. YOur first Quaestion , concerning the Service-Booke , and booke of Canons , is no-wayes pertinentlie proponed to vs . If wee did vrge vpon you the sayde bookes of Service and Canons , as yee doe now the Covenant vpon vs , wee should particularlie and punctuallie , declare our mynde concerning them .

8. To your second Question , wee answere , that it is our duetie to enquyre carefullie , what is incumbent vpon vs by the law of GOD , and man , towards our Prince . Wee doe not moue questions of state , but doe answere to your propositions , resulting vpon matters of state , and wee doe labour , as it well becommeth all good Subjects , to bee well informed , before wee put our hand to anie thing , which concerneth our due obedience to our Prince . As for that which heere agayne yee alleadge , of his Majesties Commissioner , and wyse States-men , as having receaved satisfaction from you , wee referre you , as before , to our Answere made thereto , in our first DVPLYE .

9. To your third Question , wee answere ; our assertion concerning the vnlawfulnesse of Subjects their resisting the Authoritie , of free Monarchies , by force of Armes , even altho they were enemies to the Trueth , and persecutors of the professors there-of , can not in the judgement of anie reasonable man , import that we haue the least suspition of our King , that eyther hee shall change his Religion , or shall fall vpon his religious and loyall Subjects with force of Armes . Wee haue often declared in these our Disputes , that wee are fullie perswaded of our King's Majesties constancie , in profession of the true Religion , and equitable disposition in mtnistration of justice . And in testification heere-of , we rest satisfied with his Majesties Proclamation , agaynst which yee haue protested .

10. To your fourth Question , wee answere , because that wee doe esteeme Subscription to your Covenant , neyther to bee warrandable by GOD'S word , nor to bee a convenient meane for pacification , wee holde it our duetie , both to with-holde our handes from it , and to dehort our people from it .

11. To your fift Question , wee answere : 1. Wee holde it a wrong supposition which yee make , that the Prelates and their followers , are labouring to introduce Poperie , and to make a faction . 2. Wee know our gracious King , to bee so just , and so wyse , and so rype in yeares and experience , that hee will not suffer anie of his Subjects , to abuse his Majesties name , in the execution of anie injustice . 3. To make resistance by force of Armes , agaynst the King's publicke standing Lawes , and agaynst his Majesties publicke Proclamations , is not ( in our judgement ) a convenient or lawfull way , for defending of the Religion , of the Liberties , and Lawes of the Kingdome , and of the Kings Authoritie ; but on the contrarie it bringeth Scandall vpon our profession . See our Reasons in our second DVPLYE .

12. To your sixt Question , wee answere , that in all free Monarchies , there is nothing left to Subjectes , in the case of persecution , by their owne Soveraygne Princes , but patient suffering , with Prayers and Teares to GOD , or fleeing from their wrath , as wee haue at length proved in our second DVPLYE . This doctrine did the people of Alexandria , learne of their holie Bishop Athanasius , as is evident by their owne wordes , in their Protestation , subjoyned to the Epistle of Athanasius , ad vitam solitariam agentes . If ( say they ) it bee the commandement of the Emperour , that wee bee persecuted , wee all are readie to suffer Martyrdome . 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . Tom. 1. Oper. Athanas . pag. 868 , Edit. Paris . 1627. As for the nature of the Government of this Kingdome of SCOTLAND , reade the Booke of KING IAMES THE SIXT of Blessed Memorie , entituled , The true Lawe of free Monarchies , and the Praeface of the first Booke of REGIAM MAIESTATEM ; where it is expresslie sayde , of the KING of SCOTLAND , that Hee hath no Superiour , but the Creator of Heaven and Earth , Ruler of all thinges . This our Aunswere , neyther proceedeth from Flatterie , neyther from anie intention , to stirre vp Princes agaynst their loyall Subjectes , nor from anie ayme at other worldlie endes , ( as yee doe vncharitablie judge ) but from our due Fidelitie to our KING , from our true Loue to our Countrey , and from our vpright Desire to the GLORIE of GOD , and the Comfort of our owne Soules , in the Day of our Accompts .

THE X. DVPLY .

ALTHO wee take you to bee of the number of those who penned the Late Covenant , yet pardon vs , to call your Glosses of it in question , so long as yee doe not satisfie our Argumentes , which prooue them to bee contrarie to the verie wordes of your Covenant . Wee haue showne , in our Replyes , and nowe agayne in our fourth Duplye , that the wordes of the Covenant , importe a perpetuall adherence , to the whole externall Policie of the Church , as it was Anno 1581 ; and the remooving of Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , as of thinges contrarie to the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell . Whence wee still inferre , that these who haue sworne the Covenant , are tyed by their Oath , to vote agaynst Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie : and , consequentlie , can not , without praejudice , eyther dispute , or giue out a decisiue sentence concerning them , in the intended Assemblie .

2. Yee saye , Yee will not judge so vncharitable of vs , as to thinke vs so corrupt , that , in our opinion , since the tyme designed by vs , no-thing hath entered into the Church , beside Episcopacie , and the Articles of Pearth , which can bee praejudiciall to the Libertie and Puritie of the Gospell . Wee are glad , that altho yee judge vncharitablie of vs , yet yee judge not so vncharitablie : and , altho yee thinke vs corrupt , yet yee thinke vs not so corrupt , as not to bee sensible of these thinges . Wee tolde you our mynde before , in our fourth DVPLY , concerning these Abuses , which yee thinke to haue beene occasioned by Pearth Articles : and no we wee tell you , that if Pearth Articles , and Episcopacie , for these their alleadged Consequentes , bee alltogether remooved , the benefite which yee thinke our Church may receaue , by remooving of them , shall not , in anie measure , aequall Her Great Losses .

THE XI . DVPLY .

WEE complayned in our DEMAND , of the vncharitablenesse of your Followers , who calumniate vs , as if wee were Favourers of Poperie . And to showe howe vnjust this Calumnie is , wee declared , that wee are readie , to sweare , and subscrybe , our Nationall Confession of Fayth , ratified and registrated in Parliament : to which Declaration , wee haue nowe added our Oath , which wee did sweare , when wee receaved the Degree of Doctorate in Theologie , and haue solemnlie agayne renewed it , PAG. 15.16 . In your Answere to that Demand , yee slighted our Complaynt , and did not so much as once mention it ; which made vs in our Replye , to complayne also of you , who haue showne your selues so vnwilling to giue vs that Testimonie of our Sinceritie in professing the Trueth , which all who knowe vs , thinke to bee due to vs . Wee exspected , that in your second Aunswere to that Demaund , this fault should haue beene amended . But , contrarie to our expectation , wee perceaue , not onelie that yee are insensible of the grievous injurie done to vs , by the calumnious reportes of others ; but also , that yee haue busied your owne wittes , to enquyre , as yee saye , in matters , to search , and to trye our wayes , and to expiscate what yee could agaynst vs , by the vnfriendlie testimonie of some , who , perhaps , are displeased with vs , as Achab was with Micajah , for the freedome of our Admonitions . Charitie , yee knowe , thinketh no evill , 1. COR. 13.5 , and covereth a multitude of transgressions , PROV. 10.12 . 1. PET. 4.8 . But vncharitable Inquisition , and prying into other mens doinges , not onelie discovereth those infirmities , vnto which God will haue everie one of vs subject , for humbling of vs ; but also bringeth even vpon good men , a multitude of vndeserved Aspersions . BRETHREN , wee intende not to giue you a Meeting in this ; for our Resolution is , not to bee over-come of evill , but to over-come evill with good , ROM. 12.21 . And wee are glad to suffer this for His Cause , whose Trueth wee mayntayne , pittying in you this Great Defect of Christian and Brotherlie Compassion ; and praying GOD , not to laye it to your charge . Wherefore , wee will not search and trye your wayes , as yee haue done ours : but wee will reflect our thoughts vpon our selues , and see whether or not wee bee guiltie of these thinges , which yee heere reprehende in vs .

2. Yee say , first , That wee haue taken an ample Testimonie to our selues . But what , wee pray you , haue wee testified of our selues ; but this onlie , that in sincere and zealous profession of the Trueth , wee are not inferiour to others ; and , according to our measure , haue striven to bee faythfuil in all the dueties of our Calling ? Yee haue , in-deede , put more in-to our Apologie , and saye , that wee haue praysed our selues , from our frequencie of Prayer , extraordinarie Humiliations , and holinesse of lyfe , and conversation , &c. For , as yee are loath to speake anie good of vs ; so yee would haue the Reader belieue , that wee speake too much good of our selues . But in this , as yee wrong vs , so yee make the Reader to see , howe negligentlie yee haue read and considered our wordes . For , where-as in the seconde parte of our Replye , wee tolde you , that wee haue other Meanes , and more effectuall , than your Covenant , to vse , for holding out of Poperie ; mentioning in particular , extraordinarie Humiliation , frequencie of Prayer , amendement of lyfe , diligence in Preaching , and searching the Scriptures , &c. Yee imagine , that wee doe arrogate to our selues , some singularitie , in vsing these Means ; not considering , that it is one thing to saye , that wee may and ought to vse these Meanes , and an-other thing , to say , that wee are singular , and eminent , aboue others , in the diligent vse of them .

3. Next : Where-as yee saye , that yee were desirous , rather to heare that testimonie , at the mouthes of others , ( as if yee had never heard our Paynes and Labours , for the Trueth , commended by anie ) who knoweth not , but in this case , in the which we stand for the present , it is lawfull , and moste expedient to men , to vindicate them-selues , and their Fidelitie in their Callinges , from the contempt and Calumnies of others . Wee haue in the Scriptures , notable Examples of GGD'S dearest Saynctes , who in such cases , yea , in other cases also , without anie derogation , to their singular humilitie , did fall out into high expressions , of their owne vertuous and pious carriage . Who ever spake so humblie of him-selfe as PAVL , who calleth him-selfe lesse than the least of all Saynctes , EPHES. 3.8 , and yet else-where hee sayeth , that hee was not a whit behinde the verie chiefest Apostles ; and , that hee laboured more aboundantlie than they all , 1. COR. 15.10 . 2. COR. 11.5 .

4. The defectes , which by your strict and curious Inquisition , yee thinke yee haue found in vs , may bee reduced into two poynctes : One is , that wee are too sparing in our paynes , in Preaching ; and , that wee often fill our Places with Novices . The other is , that the small Paynes which wee haue taken , are not fruitfull . And , to prooue this , yee saye , that Poperie hath no lesse increased in our Citie , vnder our Ministerie , than anie tyme before since the Reformation . As for the first of these , to omit that which Modestie will not permit vs to speake , eyther of our owne Paynes in Teaching , or of yours , it is verie well knowne , that in the case of Sicknesse , and extraordinarie Employmentes in our Callinges ▪ which but seldome doe fall foorth to vs , it is both lawfull , and commendable to see , that our Places may bee filled , eyther with some actuall Minister , or , fayling of that , with able Studentes of Divinitie , approven by publicke Authoritie , where-of your selues can not bee ignorant , in respect of your frequent Peregrinations , from your Stations .

5. As for the next poynt : Altho it were true , yet the Parable of the Seede sowen in diverse sortes of ground , and the dolorous Complayntes , which these most paynfull and thunderin Preachers , Eliah , 1. KING . 19. 10. Isaiah , 53. 1. Paul , GAL. 1.6 . and 3.1 . yea , of CHRIST Him-selfe , MATTH. 23.37 . and LVKE 19.41.42 . made of the hard successe of their laboures , may learne you to bee more benigne in your censures of vs , than yee are . In the meane tyme , it is knowne to his Majestie , to the Lordes of Secret Counsell , and to all the Countrey heere ; as also it is evident , by manie publicke extant Actes of the sayde Secret Counsell , and of our Diocoesian Assemblies , that wee haue beene as diligentlie exercised , in opposing of Poperie , as anie Ministers in this KINGDOME . Neyther hath our successe heere-in beene so badde , as yee haue given it out : for since our entrie to the ministrie heere , scarce hath anie man beene diverted from the Trueth , to Poperie , some Papistes haue beene converted , to the Profession of the Trueth , and others who were incorrigible , haue beene forced to departe from this countrey . Yea , wee thinke , that our successe , in dealing with the Papistes , had beene vndoubtedlie greater , if they had not beene hardened in their Errour , by your strange and scandalous Doctrines , repugnant to Scripture , and sound Antiquitie .

6. That which yee saye in the second part of your Aunswere , concerning the powerfull effectes of your Covenant , meeteth not with that which wee did object , concerning the vnlawfullnesse of it . For , that which is not in it selfe lawfull , can never bee truelie profitable to anie . And SOLOMON hath tolde vs , the there is no wisdome , nor vnderstanding , agaynst the LORD , PROVERBS 21.30 .

7. As for last parte of your Aunswere , wee haue so often tolde you , that your feare of the in-bringing of the Service-Booke , and Canons , is causelesse : and yee haue so oft denyed this , that it were follie to wearie the Reader anie more with this matter . In the meane tyme , wee tell you , that if you Covenant bee vnlawfull in it selfe , ( as wee still thinke it to bee ) your feare , altho it were justlie conceaved , will never free your Soules of the guiltinesse of it .

THE XII . DVPLY .

TO justifie or excuse your omission , of publicke disallowing and condemning the publicke disorders , and misscarriages of some who haue subscrybed the Covenant ; especiallie the offering of violence to Prelates , and Ministers , in tyme of Divine Service , and in the House of GOD , where-of wee spake in our twelfth Demaund , and Replye : yee aunswere , first , that yee acknowledge not the Service-Booke , for the LORD'S Service . Yee might saye the same of anie Service-Booke , ( if yee allowe the Reasons latelie set foorth in Print agaynst the Service-Booke ) for there a Praescript forme of Prayet , is condemned , which directlie crossth the practise of the Vniversll Church of CHRIST , Auncient , and Recent .

2. Yee alleadge , that yee acknowledge not the vnsurpd Authoritie of Prelates , for Lawfull Authoritie . For ought wee can perceaue , Altar . Damase pag. 120. Dispute agaynst the English Popish Ceremonies , part 3. cap , 8. digress . 1. by the Doctrines of those with whome yee joyne , yee acknowledge no lawfull Authoritie at all in Prelates , aboue your selues , and other Ministers : and yee seeme so to insinuate so much here , by blaming vs , for calling them , Reverend and holie Fathers . Wee are perswaded of the lawfullnesse of their Office , and therefore are not ashamed , with Scripture , and Godlie Antiquitie , to call such as are advaunced to this Sacred Dignitie , Fathers , and Revenrend Fathers . Neyther should personall faultes , alleadged by you , hinder our observance , till what is alleadged , bee clearlie proven , For , so long as thinges are doubfull , wee should interpret to the better parte , Favor●iliores rei potius quam actores habentur . ff. Lib. 50. Reg. 125. LVKE 6.37 . And it is a Rule of Lawe , that in a doubtfull case , the state of a Possessour , is best ; and consequentlie , of him that hither-to hath beene in a Possission of a good name : as also , that in thinges doubtfull , wee should rather favour the persone accused , than him that accuseth .

3. If yee bee of this same judgement , with vs , concerning the lawfullnesse of their Office , why doe ye not reverence them , as well as wee ? But if their verie Office seeme to you vnlawfull , wee esteeme your judgement contrarie to holie Scripture , to all sound Antiquitie , Melanch . in an Epist. to Canerarius , in Concil. Theolog. and to the best Learned amongst Reformed Divines . Heare what MELANCHTHON sayeth , I would to GOD , I would to GOD , it laye in mee , not to confirme the Dominion , but to restore the Governement of Bishops : Melanch . in an Epist. to Camerarius , in Concil. Theol. pag. 90. Quo jure enim I●c●bit nobis dissolvare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ecclesiasticam ? ●i Episcopi nobis concedant illa , quae aequun esse eos concedere ? et vt liceat , c●rte non expedit . Semper it a sensit ipse Lutherus , quem nulla de causa , quidam vt video , amant , nisi quia ●enefitcio ejus sentiunt se , Episcopos excussisse & adept●s libertatem minime vtil●m ad post●ritatem . So in an Epist. ad episc . Augusten , Deinde v●lim h●● tibi persuadeas de me deque multis aliis nos optare vt pace constituta Episcoporum p●tes●a● , sit incolumis . Et hane plurimum prodesse Ecclesiis judicamus for I see what manner of Policie wee shall have ; the Ecclesiasticall Policie beeing dissolved : I doe see , that heereafter will growe vp , a greater tyrannie in the Church , than ever was before . And agayne , in an-other Epistle to Camerarius , hee sayeth , You will not believe howe much I am hated , by those of Noricum , and by others , for the restoring of Jurisdiction to Bishops . So our Companions fight for their owne Kingdome , & not for the Kingdome of CHRIST . So in other place . See Bucer , de Regno CHRISTI , Pag. 67.

4. Thirdlie , Yee alleadge the zeale of the people , by reason where-of yee saye , that it was no-thing strange , that in such a case , they were stirred vp to oppose . Suppone they had opposed , yet , that they should haue so opposed , as to haue offered violence to Sacred persons , Prelates or Ministers , who are spirituall Fathers , seemeth to vs verie strange , for all that hitherto yee haue sayde . There is no zeale , without the exraordinarie in●●inct of GOD'S Spirit , which can warrand m●n desti●●●e ●f Authoritie , to laye their handes on ●●●h persons . Touch not Myne anoynted , and doe My Prophets 〈◊〉 harme , sayeth the LORD , PSALME 105. Let all th●nges bee done decentlie , and in order , sayeth S. PAVL , 1. COR. 14.40 . GOD is not the Author of confusion or tumult , but of peace , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayeth that same Apostle there , VERSE 33. To this purpose Grogorie Nazianzene , in his 26 Oration , speaking of the chiefe causes of division in the Church , sayeth , One of them ia vnrulie , ferventnesse without reason and knowledge , and the another is , disorder and vndecencie , 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

5. The sonne should account the person of his Father Sacred , ff. de obsequiis , Lib. 9. So wee ought also to esteeme of our Spirituall Fathers : and , there-fore , to offer injurie to their persons , and that , in tyme of Divine Service , must needes bee a grievous sinne . In the Novell Constitutions of IVSTINIAN , Si quis cum sacra mysteria celebrantur , in sanctam Ecclesiam ingrediens , Episc●po , aut Clericis , aut Ministris aliis Ecclesiiae 〈◊〉 juriam aliquam inserat : jubemus hunc verbera sustinere , & in exilium mitti . Si verò haec sacra Ministeria conturbaverit , aut celebrare probibuerit : capitaliter puniatur hoc ipso & in Litaniis , in quibus Episcopi , aut Clerici reperia●tur , custodiendo . Et siquidem i●●uriam solum feceri●is , verberibus exilioque tradatur . Si verò etiam Litaniam concusserit , capitale periculum su●tin●bi●● & vindicare jubemus non solum civiles , sed etiam militares judices . Authent . Collat. 9. Tit. 6. Novella 123. de SANCTISS . EPISCOPIS , &c. CAP 31. there is a remarkeable Lawe to this purpose , cited vpon the MARGINE . The lyke Law wee finde in Cod. Iustin . Lib. 1. Tit. 3. de Episcop. & Clericis . Now altho in these imperiall Lawes , the sanction bee severe , yet wee wish no such severitie to bee vsed amongst vs , but praying GOD , to forgiue them who haue transgressed : Wee desire them to consider , that auncientlie amongst Christians , such doings were greatlie disallowed .

6. S. Chrysostome , speaking of the reverence due by people to Pastours , In his second Homilie vpon thes words Salute Priscilla and Aquila . Tom. 5. Edit. Sa●il . pag. 327 sayeth , A man may nowe see , that there are not so great Scoffes and reproaches , vsed by the vnfaythfull , agaynst the Rulers , as by those that seeme to bee faythfull , and to bee joyned with vs . Let vs therefore inquyre whence commeth this negligence , and contempt of pietie , that wee haue such a hostilitie agaynst our Fathers . There is nothing , there is nothing , that can so easilie destroy the Church , as when there is not an exact joynture of Disciples , to their Masters ; of children to parents , and of them that are ruled , with their rulers . He that but speaketh evil against his brother , is debarred from reading the divyne Scriptures , ( for what hast thou to doe to take my Covenant in thy mouth ? sayth the LORD ; & subjoyneth this cause , Thou sittest and speakest evill of thy brother , ) and thinkest thou thy selfe worthie to come to the sacred porches , who accusest thy spirituall Father ? How agreeth this with reason ? For if they who speake evill of Father or Mother , should dye , according to the Law ; of what judgement is he worthie , who dare speake evil of him who is much more necessarie , and better , than those Parentes ? Why feareth hee not , that the earth should open , and swallow him , or that thunder should come from Heaven , and burne vp that cursing tongue ? See him also , Lib. 3. de Sacerdotio , Cap. 5. & 6.

7. In the next place , yee saye , that the keeping of GOD'S House , from Pollution and superstition , belongeth to Authoritie , to the communitie of the Faythfull , and to everie one in his owne Place , and Order : but , certainlie if everie one , or all the communitie , keepe their owne Place , and Order , they can doe no-thing in this , by way of force , without , farre lesse agaynst Authoritie . Hence Zanchius , in his first Booke of Images , Thes. 4 , sayeth , Without Authoritie of the Prince , it is lawfull to none in this Countrey , to take Idoles out of Churches , or to chaunge anie thing in Religion : hee that doeth so , should bee punished , as seditious . This hee confirmeth by reason , and by the testimonie of Saynct Augustine , Tom. 10. de Sermone Domini in Monte , Homilia 6. And a little after , hee subjoyneth ; Augustine handeleth this Argument piouslie , hee dehorteth his people , from such a practise , and sayeth , That it is pravorum hominum , & furiosorum circumcellionum .

8. As for your vehement Accusations and Threatnings , ( heere , and Answere 14 ) agaynst the wryter of the late WARNING to the Subjects in SCOTLAND , yee may easilie perceaue , by the Printed Edition of that WARNING , and by the Printed Editions of our REPLYES , that , that offence is taken away . And now , Reverende Brethren , why are yee pleased thus to digresse from the matter in hand , to waken and holde on foote , personall quarrels agaynst your brother , by digging vp buried wordes , and renewing haske interpretations thereof , contrarie to his loving intention , and after that himselfe , for satisfaction to all men , hath so publicklie disallowed and abolished these wordes ? This vncharitable dealing , can bring no advantage to the cause which yee mayntayne , but rather maketh it the more to bee disgusted , in consideration of your too great eagernesse to stirre vp hatred agaynst your neyghbour , & to worke him trouble ; whom yee ought not to persecute with implacable wrath , which worketh not the righteousnesse of GOD ; nor to exasperate agaynst him his other deare Countrey-men : but rather , as well beseemeth your profession and calling , yee ought to exhort them to the most favourable construction of things , and to christian placabilitie , and to the entertaynnig of their wonted loving affection towards him . As for these our present questions , wee desire Theologicallie onlie , and peaceablie , to conferre of them with you , or anie other our Reverende Brethren , of our owne calling .

9. Yee say , that Master KNOX spared not to call Kneeling , a diabolicall invention . If yee allowe this saying , how can it bee , Aug. lib. de vnico Baptismo , cap. 13. O quam detestandus est error hominum , qui elarorum viro rum quadam non restè facta laudabiliter se imitari putant , à quorum virtutibus alieni sunt . that in your COVENANT , intended for removing of Innovations , and recovering of the Puritie of the Gospell , yee expresslie aymed not at the abolishing of this ceremonie , which is so hatefull in your eyes ? But if yee doe not approue this his saying , why did yee not choose rather , in charitie to cover this escape of so worthie a personage , than openlie to blaze it abroad ?

10. Yee haue needleslie drawne into your discourse , mention of IRENICVM . Of which worke , for mittigation of your vnpeaceable censure , bee pleased to take notice of the judgement , of that most worthie Pastor , and most graue and learned Divyne , D. Iames Vsher , Arch-Bishop of Armach , Primate of all Ireland , in this his Epistle written to the Author .

VIR EXIMIE ;

SVmma cum voluptate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tuum perlegi : eademque Patriae tuae foelicitatem sum gratulatus , quod novum tandem produxerit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , qui eam ipsi praestitit diligentiam & virtutem , quàm olim exteris Ecclesiis ( quum non admodum dissimiles de adiaphoris obortae lites earum pacem perturbarent ) exhibuit ille Vetus ; EVSEB . LIB. 5. HIST. ECCLES. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . qui 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 .

Nulla salus bello : ipsiue bello salus si qua sit , non alio quam pacis nomine ea continetur . Nam & de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. SAM. XI . 7 . pace belli Vriam , opinor , a Davide aliquando interrogatum meministi .

Jam verò , pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 , scriptum remitto tibi ego 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 : sed quod jucundum praebeat spectaculum Midianiticorum satellitum inter se manum conserentium , IVDIC . VII . 22 . & mutuo isto bello Ecclesiolae nostrae , pacem promoventium .

Tu quicquid , hoc est , munusculi , vt ab homine optimè erga te affecto transmissum suscipe , & me ( vt facis ) ama .

Pontanae , in Hibernia , III. Eid . Decembr . anno reparatae salutis 1632.

Tuus in CHRISTI Ministerio conservus IACOBVS ARMACHANVS . ARTH. IONST . PARAPH. PSAL. 120 Me juvat alma quies , gens haec fera bella minatur , Et quoties Pacem poscimus , arma crepat .
THE XIII . DVPLY .

YEE repeate your former Answere , concerning your Interpretation of the clause of forbearance , which wee haue allreadie refuted in our former REPLYES , neyther doe yee bring heere anie new confirmation thereof : And therefore all the three Scandals , mentioned in our 13 DEMAND , doe yet remayne vnremoved .

2. Altho your Interpretation were admitted , which wee can not admit , yet at least the third Scandall were no wayes avoydable there-by , ( what-so-ever may bee supposed concerning the other two , ) and that because of the reason expressed in our 13 REPLYE ; to which your Answeres heere are not satisfactorie . 1. Yee doe insinuate , that yee thinke our Oath of obedience to our Ordinarie , and Pearth Constitutions , not lawfull in it selfe : which wee are perswaded is verie lawfull . 2. Yee would seeme to inferre the vnlawfulnesse of it , by challenging , the Authoritie where-by it was exacted ; and alleadging that there is no ordinance made Civill or Ecclesiasticke , appoynting anie such Oath . This reason ( altho it were granted ) hath no strength at all , to prooue that which yee intende , to wit , that eyther our Oath is in it selfe vnlawfull , or that wee may now lawfullie breake it : for our swearing of that Oath is not agaynst anie lawfull Authoritie , eyther divyne or humane : and in such a case , Oathes concerning thinges lawfull , ought to bee keeped , whether they bee requyred by appoyntment of a publicke ordinance , or not : which who-so-ever denyeth , hee openeth a patent doore to the breaking of lawfull Oathes , in Matrimoniall and civill contracts , and manie other cases , daylie incident in humane conversation . Also the exacting of that Oath , was clearlie warranded by two Acts of Parliament , viz. Parliament 21 , of King IAMES the 6 , holden at EDINBVRGH , Anno 1612. CHAP. 1. and Parliament 23. of King IAMES the 6 , holden at EDINBVRGH , Anno 1621. Act 1.

3. Yee take vpon you to call in question , with what conscience that Oath was given . How oft , Brethren , shall wee exhort you to forbeare judging of other mens consciences , which are knowne to GOD onlie ? Judge not , that yee bee not judged . MATTH. 7 , 1.

4. Yee alleadge , wee can not answere before a Generall Assemblie for our Oath , and the Scandall risen therevpon . No man needeth to bee ashamed , before a Generall Assemblie , or anie other Judicatorie , of his lawfull and due obedience , which hee hath given to the publicke Constitutions of the Church of SCOTLAND , and to his Majesties standing Lawes ; or of anie lawfull Oath , where-by hee hath promised that obedience . As for the Scandall , it was not given by vs , but vnnecessarilie , and vnjustlie taken , by you , and some others , vpon an erronious opinion , obstinatelie mayntayned agaynst the lawfulnesse of the matters themselues .

5. Yee say , That conceaving the Oath , according to our owne groundes , none of vs will say , that wee haue sworne the perpetuall approbation and practise of these things , which wee esteeme to bee indifferent , what-so-ever bad consequent of Poperie , Idolatrie , Superstition , or Scandall , should follow there-vpon . Wee answere , 1. These bad consequentes are alleadged by you , but not proven . 2. Evils of that kynde should bee avoyded , by some lawfull remedie . And wee doe not esteeme it lawfull for vs , to disobey Authoritie in thinges lawfull , altho in themselues indifferent : for obedience commanded by the fift Praecept of the Decalogue , is not a thing indifferent . There bee other meanes which are lawfull and more effectuall agaynst such evills , as wee haue specified in our eleventh REPLYE : 3. Wee did not sweare perpetuall approbation , and practise of indifferent thinges ; but knowing these thinges in them selues , to bee approvable , wee did sweare obedience to the publicke Lawes , requyring our practise in these thinges , so long as the Lawe standeth in vigour , and our obedience there-to is requyred by our lawfull Superioures . 4. This course wee holde to bee more agreeable to our duetie , than vpon private conceptions of Scandals vnnecessarilie taken , to breake off our due obedience to that Authoritie which GOD hath set over vs .

6. Out of our assertion ( Replye 4. ) concerning the administration of the Sacraments in private places , to sicke persons , in case of necessitie , yee doe collect , that wee can not forbeare the practise of these , altho our Ordinarie , and other lawfull Superioures should will vs to doe so . And hence yee inferre , that heere-in Pearth Assemblie , for which wee stand , is wronged by vs two wayes : 1. That wee differ in judgement from them , about the indifferencie of the fiue Articles : and next , that at the will of our Ordinarie , and yee know not what other lawfull Superioures , wee are readie to forbeare the practise of these thinges , which the Assemblie hath appoynted to bee observed .

7. As for your mayne Question , Whether a duetie necessarie by Divine Lawe , may bee , or may not bee omitted , in case , our Ordinarie , and other lawfull Superioures , should will vs to omit it ? before wee aunswere to it , wee must expound what wee meane by our other lawfull Superioures , because of your jesting pretence of ignorance heere-of . Wee meane heere-by , The King's Majestie , the Parliament , the Secret Counsell , and other Magistrates , and Ecclesiasticall Assemblies , where-vnto wee owe Obedience in our Practise requyred by them , according to publicke Lawes .

8. The Question it selfe ye doe expresse more clearlie in your Aunswere to our fourth Replye ; where yee alleadge , that wee finde some of the PEARTH ARTICLES so necessarie , that altho the Generall Assemblie of the Church should discharge them , yet wee behoved still , for conscience of the Commaundement of GOD , to practise them .

Thus are wee brought to this generall Question ;

Whether , or no , anie thing necessarie ( or commanded ) by Divine Lawe , may , in anie case , without sinne , bee omitted , when publicke humane Authoritie dischargeth the practise thereof ?

For resolving of this Question , wee desire the Reader to take notice of these Theologicall Maximes , receaved in the Schooles , and grounded vpon HOLIE SCRIPTVRE .

9. Affirmatiue Praeceptes , doe binde at all tymes , but not to all tymes , but onelie as place and tyme requyre ; that is , when opportunitie occurreth . [ Praecepta affirmativa obligant semper , sed non ad semper , nisi pro loco & tempore ; id est , quando opportunitas occurrit . ] But Negatiue Praeceptes , doe binde at all tymes , and to all tymes . [ Praecepta negativa obligant semper & ad semper . a a Thom. 1 ● 2 ● , q● . 71. art. 5. ad 3m m Bonavent ▪ in 1. sent. dist. 48. art. 2. qu. 1. in Resolutione . Scotus in 3. sent. dist. 9. qu. vnica , num. 4. ] As for example ; A man is not obliedged to speake the trueth at all tymes ; for hee may bee some tyme lawfullie silent , but hee may never lawfullie lie .

10. Of Affirmatiue necessarie Dueties , some are the weyghtier matters of the Lawe , [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ] as Iudgement , Mercie , and Fayth , MATTH. 23.23 . Others , lesse weyghtie , such as are those of the Pearth Articles ; which wee call necessarie , and yee doe reject .

11. The exercise of some Affirmatiue necessarie dueties , may bee some tymes omitted , by Authoritie , without sinne , for the publicke Peace , or some pressing necessitie . Thus Moses permitted repudiation of a man's married wyfe , not fallen into adulterie ; neyther did hee vrge strictlie the Affirmatiue duetie of adherence , and that for the hardnesse of their heart . Where-in Moses had respect to the Peace and Unitie of the Tribes of Israell , as Alexander Alensis observeth , in his Summe of Theologie , Part. 3. Qu. 46. Membro 1. Art. 1. & Art . 2. David did not execute , in his owne tyme , judgement agaynst Joab , for his murthering of Abner , and Amasa , because the sonnes of Zerviah were too harde for him . Circumcision was omitted , because of the vncertayntie of their abode in one place , when the people were with Moses in the Wildernesse .

12. Exercise of Ecclesiasticall Discipline , agaynst open obstinate offenders , is an affirmatiue duetie , incumbent , by divyne Law , vpon the Pastoures , towards those who are committed to their charge . Yet it may , and ought to bee forborne , when it can not bee vsed without an open rupture , and vnavoydable Schisme . Because in such a case the publicke peace is rather to bee looked to , lest in our inconsiderate zeale to separate the Tares , wee plucke vp also the Wheat . And what wee can not get corrected by censure , wee can doe no more but mourne for it , and patientlie wayt till GOD amende it , as Augustine proveth at length , Lib. 3. contra Epistolam Parmeniani , Cap. 1. & Cap. 2. & Lib. de fide & operibus , Cap , 5. For in this tyme ( sayeth Gregorie ) the holie Church doeth correct some thing by fervour , some thing shee tolerateth by meeknesse , some things by consideration shee dissembleth , and beareth , Gregor. respons. ad 7. interrogationem Augustini Caentuariensis . In hoc enim tempore sancta Ecclesia quaedam per f●rvorem corrigit , quaedam per mansuetudinem tolerat , quaedam per considerationem dissimulat , atque portat , vt saepe malum quod aversitur , portando & dissimulando compescat . Prosper , Lib. 2. de vita contemplativa , Cap. 5. Propter hoc ergo , blanda pietate portandi sunt , qui increpari pro sua infirmitate non possant . so that often by bearing and dissembling , shee compesceth [ or putteth away ] that evill which shee hateth . And Prosper sayeth ; For this cause therefore , they must with gentle pietie bee borne with , who for their infirmitie , may not bee rebuked .

13. When a doctrinall errour ( not beeing fundamentall ) prevaileth by publicke Authoritie in any Church , a private Pastor or Doctor espying it , may lawfullie and laudablie , forbeare publicke stryving agaynst it , when hee evidentlie perceaveth , that vnavoydable Schisme would followe there-vpon . In such a case hee should content him-selfe , to feede his hearers with that wholsome Milke of the Word , which they may receaue , and delay the giving of stronger Foode vnto them , because of their infirmitie : Considering that more necessarie and weyghtier Duetie , which hee oweth for preservation of Order and Peace ; and labouring , in a myld and peaceable manner , to cure them . To this purpose belongeth that saying of Gregorie Nazianzen , Nazianz. Orat. 26. tom. 1. pag. 446. & 447. Edit. Graecol . Paris . Anno 1630. Let no man , therefore , bee more wyse than is convenient , neyther more legall than the Lawe , neyther more bright than the Light , neyther more strayght than the Rule , neyther higher than the Commaundement . But howe shall this bee ? If wee take knowledge of Decencie , and commende the lawe of Nature , and followe Reason , and despyse not good order . [ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . ] And that of the Auncient Church of Lions in France , neare eyght hundreth yeares a-goe ; Who doeth not calmlie and peaceablie moderate that which hee thinketh , but is readie incontinent to Contentions , Eccles. Ludg. Lib. de tenenda veritate Scripturae post medium [ in Bibl. Patr. Tom. 4. Part. 2 Edit. 4. ] Qui non tranquillè & pacificè moderatur quod sentit , sed statim paratus est ad contentiones , dissentiones , & scandala , etiamsi non habeat Haereticum sensum , certissime habet Haereticum animum . Dissentions , and Scandalls , altho hee haue not an hereticall sense , most certaynlie hee hath an hereticall mynde .

14. Divine Institution , by the Ministerie of the Apostles , craveth Deacons , ordayned by Imposition of handes , for all their lyfe tyme , ACTS 6. Yet in our Reformed Church of SCOTLAND wee haue no such Deacons . Which OEconomicall defect , necessitated by detention of Church mayntenance necessarie for their sustentation , wee hope shall not bee imputed to our Church , as sinne , so long as Shee despyseth not that Institution , and acknowledgeth , and lamenteth , this deficiencie , and endevoureth , by peaceable lawfull meanes , to haue it remedied .

15. Altho some Affirmatiue Dueties , necessarie by Divine Praecept , doe giue place , some tymes , to other more weyghtie , and more pressing Dueties , ( as the saving of a stranger may bee omitted , for saving my father , or my brother , or my sonne , out of the same danger , when I am able onlie to saue one of them . And manie such lyke examples doe occurre : ) yet it is never lawfull to condemne or oppugne such Dueties , as evill , or superstitious , or scandalous in them-selues , neyther to ranke them amongst thinges in them-selues indifferent .

16. Hence wee doe inferre , that not-with-standing of the necessitie of those of the Pearth Articles , which wee call necessarie , yet some tymes the practising of them , may become not necessarie , and the omission there-of not sinfull , publicke Authoritie , and the necessitie of the peace of the Church , so requyring . Some tyme , in-deede , the omission of a thing praescrybed by an Affirmatiue Divine or Humane Lawe , may bee faultlesse : But it is never lawfull for Subjectes , to transgresse the Negatiue parte of the Divine Praecept , by resisting with force of Armes , Thom. 2 a 2ae qu. 43. art. 7. Propter nullum scandalum quod sequ● videatur , debet homo , praetermissa veritate , falsitatem docere . that Power where-vnto GOD hath subjected them , and to which Hee hath forbidden them , to make such resistance . Neyther is it at anie tyme lawfull , for Pastors and Teachers , to teach erronious doctrine .

17. Yee doe attribute to vs , as a great absurditie , that at the will of our Ordinarie , and other lawfull Superioures , wee are readie to forbeare the practise of these thinges which the Assemblie hath appoynted to bee observed . And this yee inferre from the necessitie of Administration of the Sacramentes , some tymes in private places , according to our judgement . Certaynlie , yee will haue much a-doe , to make good , by right Logicke , this your inference from such an Antecedent . But to speake of the matter of the Consequent , for satisfaction to the Reader , wee finde no such absurditie in it , as yee seeme to proclayme . For , if some Dueties appoynted by divyne Law , giue place some-tymes to other weyghtie dueties , such as is the keeping of publicke peace and good order , as we haue alreadie showne ; much more may a thing , notwithstanding of anie humane Lawe appoynting it to bee observed , be for these respectes omitted , at the will and direction of those Superioures , to whom wee owe our obedience requyred by that humane Law , and who haue power to dispence with our practise in that part .

THE XIV . DVPLY .

IF the wordes of the Covenant bee playne , ( say yee ) concerning the meere forbearance , and speake nothing of the vnlawfulnesse , no mans thoughts can make a change . But wee haue given our reasons , which justlie moue vs to requyre greater playnnesse ; neyther haue wee as yet receaved satisfaction , concerning those reasons .

2. In our 14 REPLYE , wee sayde , That your Band of Mutuall Defence agaynst all persons what-so-ever , may drawe Subjects , perhaps , to take Armes agaynst their King , ( which GOD avert ) and consequentlie from that loyaltie of Obedience , which they owe to their Soveraygne , and ours ; except yee declare , and explayne your selues better , than yee haue hitherto done . To this yee answere , that , by this Replye wee doe a threefolde wrong : One to our selues , another to the Subscrybers , the third to the Kings Majestie . But yee haue not directlie answered to the poynt proponed by vs .

3. The wrong which yee say , wee doe to our selues , is in forging from the wordes of the Covenant , impediments , and drawing stumbling blockes in our owne way , to hinder our Subscription . This your wrongous asseveration , wee justlie denye , protesting , as wee haue often done , that wee doe walke sincerelie in this matter , according to our light , Not forging to our selues impedimentes , nor drawing stumbling blockes in our owne way ; but clearlie showing the impedimentes , and stumbling blockes , which the Contryvers of the COVENANT haue layde in our way , by their verie incommodious expression , irreconciliable ( in our judgement ) with your exposition .

4. Yee say , wee wrong the Subscryvers , in changing the state of the Question , and in making a divorce betwixt Religion , and the King's Authoritie , which the Covenant joyneth together , hand in hand . Wee doe no-wayes wrong the Subscrybers , when wee propone vprightlie our just Scruples , as wee in our CONSCIENCES doe conceaue them , where-by wee are moved to with-holde our handes from that COVENANT : where-of one is , the feare of vnlawfull resistance to Authoritie , if wee should holde to that COVENANT ; howe so-ever yee will not suffer to heare patientlie this objection , because in your Covenant yee doe professe , the conjunction of Religion , and the King's Authoritie : which profession of yours , doeth not sufficientlie serue for a full answere to our objection , agaynst those other words of that same Covenant , where-vpon our Scruple did aryse . To cleare this , we wish you to answere directlie ( to this our present Demaund : whether or no , in case of disagreement , ( which GOD avert ) thinke yee that the Covenantors are obliedged , by vertue of their Covenant , to make open resistance , by force of Armes ? If yee thinke they are obliedged to make resistance , then wee desire your answere to the Reasons and Testimonies brought in our 2 Duplye , proving the vnlawfulnesse of such resistance . But if yee thinke that they bee not obliedged , then declare it playnlie .

5. But most of all , yee say , wee wrong the King's Majestie , in bringing him vpon the St●ge , before his Subjectes , in whose myndes wee would ( as yee doe vnjustlie alleadge ) beget and breede suspitions of opposing the Trueth , of making Innovation in Religion , and of dealing with the Subjects , contrarie to his Lawes and Proclamations , and contrarie to the Oath at his Coronation . Wee answere ; wee haue not brought , but haue found his Majestie vpon this vnpleasant Stage , opposing himselfe openlie to your Covenant , with solemne Protestations , agaynst all suspitions of opposing the Trueth , or making Innovation of Religion , or dealing with the Subjectes contrarie to his Lawes and Proclamations , or contrarie to the Oath at his Coronation . This his Majesties declaration , agaynst which yee haue protested , wee haue willinglie receaved , and doe truelie belieue it .

6. What the most honourable Lords , of his Majesties privie Counsell haue done , concerning his Majesties last Proclamation , and vpon what motiues , their Honours themselues doe know , and his Majesties High Commissioner , hath publicklie declared in his printed MANIFESTO , contrarie to some of your Asseverations , concerning the proceeding of that Honourable Boord .

7. Yee professe heere , that , It becommeth you , to judge charitablie of his Majesties intentions , altho yee disallow the Service-Booke , and Canons , as contayning a reall Innovation of Religion ; and doe affirme , that , the intention of the Prelates , and their Associates , the Authors and Contryvers of the Bookes , is most justlie suspected by you . Wee haue tolde you alreadie , that , concerning the matters , contayned in those Bookes , it is not now tyme to dispute , the Bookes themselues being discharged by his Majesties Proclamation , and a royall promise made , that his Majestie will neyther now nor heere-after , presse the practise of the fore-sayde Canons and Service-Booke , nor anie thing of that nature , but in such a fayre and legall way , as shall satisfie all his Majesties loving Subjects ; and , that his Majestie neyther intendeth Innovation in Religion or lawes . As for the intentions of his sacred Majestie , wee doe heartilie and thankfullie acknowledge them , to bee truelie conforme to his Majesties gracious Declaration , in that his last Proclamation . And , in-deede , it becommeth both you and vs , to thinke so of them . Neyther doe wee take vpon vs , to harbour in our breasts , anie vncharitable suspition , concerning the intentions of those others of whom yee speake ; seeing they stand or fall to their owne master , and the thoughts of their hearts are vnknowne , both to you and vs : and in a matter vncertaine it is surest to judge charitablie . Yea , wee haue manie pregnant Arguments to perswade vs , that those Reverende Prelates , and their Associates , had no such intention , as yee judge .

8. Yee make mention of three wrongs , done by vs to you : The one , in the WARNING , where-of yee haue an answere allreadie given in our 12 DVPLYE , where yee did vse greater exaggerations , than eyther the intention of the Warner did merite , or became your charitie and profession . And by your repetition of it in this place , yee show , that yee haue too great delight to dwell vpon such expostulations , where-as Theologicall reasons of the matter in controversie , would better become you in such a DISPVTE . The second wrong is , that ( as yee alleadge ) wee haue wronged you . In with-holding our hand and helpe from so good a cause , of purging Religion , and reforming the Kirke , from so manie grosse abuses , and opposing all those who haue modestlie laboured for Reformation . But certaynlie , the wrong is done to vs by you , in that yee doe , without warrand of Authoritie , obtrude vpon vs , and vpon those committed to our charges , the swearing of an Oath , which is agaynst our owne consciences : and because of our just refusall and opposition , yee doe wrong vs also , in misinterpreting our pious and vpright meanings , and in making and stirring vp collaterall , Hieronym . Apologia adversus Ruffinum , quae incipit , Lectis literis , prope finem . Talibus institutus es Disciplinis , vt cui respondere non potueris , caput auferas ; & linguam , qua tacere non potest se●●s ? Nec magnop●re glorieris , si facias quod Scorpiones possunt facere , & Cantharides . Fec●runt haec & Fulvia in Ciceronem , & Herodias in loannem : quia veritatem non poterant audire : & linguam veriloquam discriminali acu confoderunt . — Adversum impiissimos C●l●um atque Porthyrium quanti scripsere nostrorum ? Qui om●ssa causa , in sup●rflua criminum objectio●● versatus est ? and personall quarrells agaynst vs , and threatning vs there-with . Thus ( if GOD by his speciall grace did not vpholde vs ) might wee bee driven , by worldlie terroures , to doe agaynst the light of our owne consciences .

9. The third Wrong , where-with yee charge vs , and for the which yee doe insinuate , that wee maye feare Trouble , is ( as yee alleadge ) in our speaches , in publicke , and private , and in our Missiues , &c. Herevnto wee answere , as in our former Replyes , That when-so-ever it shal please you , to specifie these speaches , we hope to giue you , and all peaceablie-disposed Christians , full satisfaction , and to cleare our selues of that imputation ; so that none shall haue just reason , to worke vs anie Trouble . In the meane tyme , if our ingenuitie would permit vs , ( as it doeth not ) to thinke it a decent course , to make vse of Hearkeners , and Catchers of wordes , and to wayte for the haulting of our Brethren , some of your owne speaches might bee represented vnto you , wherein yee would find weaknesse .

10. As for these Outward , or Externall Argumentes , which ye bring heere , to proue your Covenanting , to bee The worke of GOD , from the Successe of your Enterpryze , from the multitude of Subscrybers , and from their Contentment , and from their good carriage , ( which wee would wish , in manie of them , to bee more charitable , and peaceable , and so more Christian , than it is ) wee can not acknowledge , to bee A Commentarie written by the LORD'S owne Hand , ( as yee pretende ) in approbation of your Covenant ; vnlesse yee first clearlie showe vs the Text or Substance of your COVENANT , to bee written in the HOLIE SCRIPTURES , in all poyntes there-of ; especiallie in those poyntes , wherein yee and wee doe controvert , and which onelie , at this tyme , can bee pretended against vs , seeing we make opposition onelie in those poyntes . And wee wish heartilie , That leaving these weake Notes of Trueth , to the Papistes , chiefe Acclaymers of them , amongst Christians , ( that wee speake no-thing of Aliens from Christianitie ) yee would bee pleased to adhere , with vs , vnto the HOLIE SCRIPTURES , as the onelie sure and perfect RULE of TRUE RELIGION , and the Heavenlie Lampe , which GOD hath given vs , to showe vs the Way of Trueth and Peace : Where-in the GOD of Trueth and Peace direct all our steppes , for IESUS CHRIST our SAVIOUR , who is our Peace : To HIM bee Glorie for ever : Amen .

IOHN FORBES OF CORSE , Doctor and Professor of Divinitie in ABERDENE . ROBERT BARON , Doctor and Professor of Divinitie , and Minister in ABERDENE . ALEXANDER SCROGIE , Minister at OLD ADERDENE , D. D. WILLIAM LESLEY , D. D. and Principall of the King's Colledge in ABERDENE , IA: SIBBALD , Doctor of Divinitie , and Minister at ABERDENE . ALEXANDER ROSSE , Doctor of Divinitie , and Minister at ABERDENE·
Some Escapes in Printing .

Pag. line for reade 7 23 because your Answers because their Answeres 8 17 Answeres Argumentes 11 25 chap. 37 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 . cap. 37 ibid. ibid Novatus Novatian ( called their 13 31 discerned decerned [ Novatus ) 16 14 resicere , omnesque etiam resicere . Omnes etiam 28 9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 30 20 in the 33 in the 22 33 7 alleadged allowed ibid. 11 Conventions , ye meane Covētiōs , from their purpo 35 15 and that that [ sed ends , yemean ibid. last Seruice-Booke Service-Booke , and Ca●●● 36 1 is discharged are discharged 48 penult. condemning condemning of 52 30 contryvers recommenders 59 4 enjoying injoyning bid . last Consilio Concilio 80 margin Leg. 42 in Sexto . Reg. 42 89 11 had wee eot had we not 98 26 our Propositions our proposition 99 11 of standing to standing 100 6 Episcopie Episcopacie 105 23 Monarchies Monarchs 115 31 Lib. 9 Leg. 9 116 6 Clericis . Now Clericis . Leg. 10. Now ibid. 12 puniatur hoc ipso puniatur . Hoc ipso 117 4 cursing accusing 119 1. &c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉

Notes, typically marginal, from the original text
Notes for div A20714-e540