Reason against railing, and truth against fiction being an answer to those two late pamphlets intituled A dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker, and the Continuation of the dialogue &c. by one Thomas Hicks, an Anabaptist teacher : by W. Penn.

Reason against Railing , AND Truth against Fiction . Being An Answer to those Two late Pamphlets , Intituled , A Dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker , and the Continuation of the Dialogue , &c. by one Thomas Hicks , an Anabaptist Teacher . In which His Dis-ingenuity is Represented , His Prophaneness is Rebuked , His Forgeries are Detected , His Cavils are Confounded . And Thomas Hicks proved No Christian , By several short Arguments raised from his Ungodly Way of Procedure against us .

By one that cannot but Contend earnestly for the True Faith once delivered to the Saints , W. Penn.

Ye shall conceive Chaff , ye shall bring forth Stubble ; your Breath as Fire shall devour you ,

Isa. 33.11 .

Printed Anno 1673.

TO THE READER . Reader ,

OF what sort of People soever thou art , sure I am , that Almighty God hath placed a Witness for himself in thy Conscience , unto whom thou must stand or fall in the Terrible Day of Account . Vain will all prove that gives not to abide the Test of that Day , when the Works of all Mankind shall assuredly come to Judgment : But blessed forever will they be , who , not deluding themselves with Unprofitable Notions , shall appear with Consciences void of Offence before God , Angels and Men. And as I have been taught to seek that Happiness above all other , however mis-represented by Ungodly Men , so would I not for many Worlds hazard the Peace of that State , by any unjust Proceed against this Adversary now before me , however provokt by his Exorbitances . I would give the Worst of Men their Due , and as I justly esteem him of that Number , so God forbid that I should in the least deprive him of his Right , a Robbery I would not ( after his Example ) be guilty of .

Sorry I am that so many Occasions are renewed to trouble both thee and my self with Books of Controversie ; did I consult my own Ease , and the common Peace of the several Religious Interests of this Land , Silence should have been my Choice ,

God is my record , these things have deeply griev'd my very Soul , and made me cry , Oh when will Men rather press after Piety , then contend ●or Opinion , and devote themselves to the sincere Practice of that true and undefiled Religion , instead of Pursuing the sinister Ends of what they falsly repute such ! Shall Noise alwayes go for Zeal , and implacable Contest constantly be esteem'd contending for the Faith once delivered to the Saints ? Miserable People ! Who know not that of all the Enemies Faith has to overcome , there is not a greater to be conquered ? It is an old F●tch of the Devils to besaint his own Off-spring , that he may beguile the Simple-hearted ; and to think of doing God good Service in persecuting his Truth , was the Condition of the high-professing Jews of old .

Reader , It hath been our great Unhappiness , that we have not been hitherto known , as we are ; for since we evermore desire to be unvail'd to God , there is n● Reason why we should abscond our selves from Men no , would we were known of Men , as w● are known of the Lord : But such is the Impudenc● of this Adversary , that whilst we seek nothing mo●● then to be understood , he would have the World believe , we glory in being Unintelligible , and seem to make the whole Drift of his Discourse to be a Discovery of us ; who , instead of pulling our pretended Mask off , puts a frightful Vizard on , and then leads us up and down his Dialogues for a Sight ; This is G. Fox , that G. Whitehead , and the other Edward Burroughs , or William Penn , &c. perverting , detracting , mis-construing , vilisying , slandering to the height , and which is worst of all , this Villanous Practice is to pass for godly Zeal , and in Defence of the Gospel .

Reader , I have only this to request , be Moderate , be Impartial ; and this grant for thy own sake , that what Judgment thou shalt hereafter make of us , or our Enemies , may be such , as thou shalt not be ashamed of in the Day of the Lord God . Certainly it concerns us to beseech all to weigh these Things ; For never were Men more Innocent , and yet never any rendered mo●● Nocent : Our Reputation here , and our Welfare hereafter are brought into Question ; we must be at once the Worst and most Imprudent Men , if what be charged , be True ; And if False , our Adversary greatly both : For such is the Accusation , that nothing short of foulest Wickedness can lie at one of our Doors . And though I know many slight him , who yet are not of us , reputing him no better then a meer Janizary in Religion , one that fights for his Pay , and writes for his Living , a kind of homily-Hireling , not worth our Notice ; yet , since such is the Unhappiness of some , that they stick not to entertain more favourable Thoughts of his Endeavours against us ; for their sakes , and to detect his Envy , Error and Injustice to the World , am I now engaged : And if God give me Life , I hope to pursue this undertaking effectually , let him get what Stock of Force and Ammunition he can . Reader , I omit to say more here , but that I am with all Sincerity

15th 3d Moneth , 1673 , Thy true Friend , W. Penn.

Reason against Railing , AND Truth against Fiction .

CHAP. I.

The Introduction to the Discourse . Reasons why the Dialogue was not answered before .

IF it shall be wondered at by any , that we are so quick with our Return to T.H. upon his Second Dialogue , who seem'd no more concern'd for his First : 't is fit that such know the Reasons we have to give in our Defence .

First , We esteemed it a Fiction , calculated to the vain and scoffing Humour of the Vulgar , without all Savour of Mercy , Justice , Seriousness or Civility ; worthy of no Man's Patronage , that would be in earnest about Religion ; To employ our Time about a large , compleat and distinct Book , had been to loose it .

2 ly , George Whitehead , the Person most engaged , had given such an Account of it in brief to the World , that with many it seem'd sufficient ; since the Contradictions by him observ'd , are no wayes reconciled , nor so much as attempted by T.H. in his last Dialogue .

3 ly , Because whatever might seem to carry any Force with it throughout that confident Piece of Forgery , we resolved to consider among many other Adversaries in one large Volumn , which is accordingly done . And had it not been for other intervening Discourses , with the great Difficulty we ●ave to print our Just Defences , when we have made them ( a Strait our Enemies are not put to ) it had long ere this come to publick View .

4 ly ; Several other Adversaries were then before us , who , whether they said any thing more injurious , to be sure , pretended better Proof and Evidence for what they affirmed .

5 ly , So just Complaint having met him , as well from several unconcerned in our Way , as our Friends , to wit , That he had charged the Quaker with saying , what he did not , at least to him , and in that case , if ever he coul● prove it to have been either his Saying , or his Belief at any time , or in any case . He now to vin●icate himself from such Injustice , hath given us a Second Part , wherein he hopes to make good what he charged upon us in his First by Quotations out of our ow● Books , which , if faithfully done , I shall freely acknowledge , that a Quaker is quite another thing than a Christian . And as this may suffice all , but such as are resolved never to be satisfied with any thing that comes from us , of the Reason of deferring our further Answer ; so having now that Ground to proceed upon , which we never had before . I shall with God's Assistance make the best of it I can , in Defence of the Truth , and the Innocency of them that profess it ; only give me leave to hint at a few Things , which may not be improper to the Matter in hand , because they do not a little discriminate and give to relish the Spirit of our Adversary .

CHAP. II.

Something of the manner of his Dealing with us .

FIrst then , he has taken a very unequal Way to represent our Faith , Doctrine and Practice to the World , in that he hath rather delivered his own Fury , then a true Quaker , and shews to the World , rather what he would have us to be , then what we are .

Can it be fairly done , to propose the most knotty Questions for himself , and give the weakest Answers for us ? Had he but had the Generosity of a Roman , he would have given us fair Dealing for our Reputations : To make a Fool and an Heretick both , and then call him a Quaker , is no less then a Rape , because a violent Robbery committed upon those that go under that Name .

The best of Men can never escape , let their Adversaries have but the Characterizing of them . It had become T. Hicks , if he would have shown himself a Christian and a Champion too , first to have set down our Principles and Arguments , as delivered and urged by us , and then have enervated both by his pretended greater Strength of Scripture and Reason , before he had made so many Trophies of Conquest ; But because , had we been in the wrong , this had been the Practice of a true Christian , and that this has not been his Practice , we are taught to infer , that T. Hicks is thus far Antichristian .

Secondly , He has not only made us Weak and Ridiculous by Answers no wayes to the Purpose , Dial. p. 66. but to belye our very Consciences and Principles . For when he asks us , Do you believe the Scriptures to be true Sayings of God ? he makes us to answer , So far as they agree to the Light in me : An Answer never so delivered by us . And when he queries , Will you be so liberal of your Revilings , whether your Adversary gives Occasion or not ? He answereth for us , It concerns us to render them as Ridiculous as we can , and to make our Friends believe , they do nothing but contradict themselves , which is enough to us .

Certainly these things shew such premeditated and wilful Obstinacy to be wicked , that were we , what he represents us to be in this very Matter , the severest Plagues and Judgments of the Eternal God we might justly expect to be our Portion forever . I fear T. Hicks measures us by himself ; and that the Answer he feigns to the Second part of his Dialogue , will be his Lot as truly , as he has there feignedly said it . It would take up too much time to enlarge , only thus much let me say , That Man is hard put to it , and Unjust with a Witness , who not only invents Answers to dis-repute a Man or People , but such as are very Lyes too against their Faith and Practice .

Thirdly , Nor is this all , but he hath managed the whole of his Dialogues in a Spirit of Prophanation , by a tanting and inapplicable Use of many serious Words , that have at one time or other been seasonably uttered by Sober , Simple and Religious People to the insnaring Questions of such Trapanners as himself . As for instance , Thou manifests thy Darkness , that thou art still in thy Imagination ; What dost thou witness in thy self ? I see thou art a poor dark Creature , as by thy Talking is manifest ; yea , it is manifest in the Light ; yea , verily : Alas for thee ! Pag. 13 , 15 , 25 , 44 , 45 , 49 , 54 , 60 , 76. I bear witness against thee : We are dead to Distinctions : Thou manifestest a Perverse Spirit . These , Reader , with the like Expressions doth this Ungodly Scoffer give to the World in the Name of a true Quaker , as some of his best Answers ; and that to such Questions , whose Matter hath been effectually considered and answered in many of our Books : however , his Spirit shows , to whomsoever those Answers are improper , in one sense they are not so to him . But above all , that a Man pretending to Religion himself , and such a one too as next to us stands fairest for Reproach , should give our serious Language in a Jeer , as if we were fitter to be Derided than Informed , is horridly wicked . Can his Conscience be so seared , as to handle holy Things without Fear ? Is Singularity grown so odious to an Anabaptist Preacher , that he should make it a Subject for his Scorn and Drollery ? However this may resemble T. Hicks , he does not herein answer the First Love of the People who go under that Name , while he shews so much implacable Hatred to his Conscientious Neighbour , thereby not discountenancing the prophane Rabble in their frequent Scoffs at us , but furnishing them with such a Work of Darkness , as excites them further to it , making us to inherit those cruel Mockings , which were once the Portion of his own Profession . We know , what answers not God's Witness , shall never be able to abide the Tryal , and therefore we are the less concerned in his Comical Abuses of us , more becoming a Morefield or a Smithfield Stage-Play , than a Christian Treatise . Thus much and no more of the Spirit of the Man in general , because more largely handled else-where .

CHAP. III.

The Question Stated , and accordingly Pursued . Our Adversary proved false and weak .

WE shall now descend to the main Question , and that which is the Ground of his Second Dialogue , and without which there can be no Defence of his First , viz.

Whether those Doctrines and Expressions , charged upon the People called Quakers by Tho. Hicks in both his Dialogues , be really the Doctrines and Sayings of that People , or not ? And afterwards , Whether what we do own , and is by him charged with Error , is sufficiently opposed or proved such ?

He affirms , they are ; and undertakes to prove his Assertions out of their own Works , which naturally leads me to consider , what are those Doctrines and Expressions he hath charged upon us to be ours ; and what are those Proofs , by which he endeavours to make good that Charge . I shall first of all treat upon the more weighty Parts of Doctrine , and reserve the more trivial Matters to the latter end .

The first considerable thing he endeavours to suggest against us , is , Our making the Light in every Man to be God , Dial. p. 3 , 4 , 5. which he undertakes to prove from G. Whitehead's Discourse upon John 1.4 . In him was Life , and the Life was the Light of Men ; That if the Life was the Divine Essence , the Light must be so also ; for such as the Cause is , such the Effect must be . Upon which sayes T. Hicks , From this kind of reasoning we may conclude , not only the Light within , but every Creature both Beasts and Trees are God ; these being Effects of infinite Wisdom and Power . Dost thou not Tremble at this Consequence ?

Answ. This very thing shews great Dis-ingenuity in T. Hicks , That from G. Whiteheads asserting and proving the divine Nature of the Light within , he should insinuate , that every Measure of Light in Man is whole God , and which is yet more gross , to conclude from G. Whiteheads saying , Such as the Cause is , such the Effect must be ; that Beasts and Trees are God , because the Effects of his Power ; whereas G. Whitehead did not intend it of a meer Potential , but Natural Effect , that is , something resulting from the Nature , and not the meer Power of the Divine Life . Men are the Natural Off-spring & Product of Men , but so are not all those other things in the Creation , which are notwithstanding the Effects of their Art and Power , so that there needs no Trembling at G. W's Blasphemy , as he afterwards calls it , but better Information to T. Hicks's Ignorance , or Rebuke to his wilful Blindness . Of this I refer the Reader to G. W's Part of that larger Volum .

Again G.W. affirm'd it must be God , because to deny it so to be , was to deny the Omnipresence of God , Then it seems , says T.H. that the Light within , and the Omnipresence of God is one and the same thing with him . Is this your Champion ? May we not conclude the Body of Man as well as the Light within to be God by this Reason ?

Answ. By no means , and 't is a Shame to hear that a Man pretending to Controversy should ask so ridiculous a Question . Is there no Difference betwixt a Man , whose Reines are on his Neck , following the Lust of the flesh , the Lust of the Eye , and the Pride of Life , and the Light within , that T.H. himself acknowledgeth to convince of Sin , reprove for it , and unto which Man ought to give Attendance ? Is there as clear a Proof of the Omnipresence of God in the one as in the other ; I would know who is he that searcheth the Hearts , and trieth the Reins , and telleth Man his Thoughts ? do not the Scriptures attribute this to God , and that as the most convincing Proof of his Omnipresence ? And if he doth so search the Hearts and try the Reins , let us understand , if it be not as the Great Light , that enlightneth every Man that cometh into the World , since the Scriptures testify that God is Light ; that every Man is enlightened ; that God searcheth all Hearts , and that what ever doth make manifest is Light : Now unless a Man may have his Heart searched , his Reins tryed , his Deeds manifested & judg'd without an inward Light , it must necessarily follow , that the Light within , present with us every where , is to us the great Proof of Gods Omnipresence , and therefore of God . And though every measure of Light distinctly is not that Intire Eternal Being , yet we are bold to assert , that it is no other then God the Fulness of all Light , who searcheth the Heart and tryeth the Reins , and telleth Man his thoughts , that doth shine into the Inward parts of Man , and doth there convince of Sin , reprove for it , and lead out of it , John 1.16 . Col. 1.19 . as believed and obeyed : And 't is by this Inward Discovery chiefly Men come to know that God is , and that he is a Rewarder of them that fear him ; whence , when Men are Innocent , it is frequent with them to say , being unjustly accused , my Heart misgives me not , my Conscience doth not condemn me , I have good Courage to look my Accuser in the Face ; A State transcending the utmost Stretch of all T. H's imagined Christianity .

In short T. Hicks's confident Conclusions against us arise from these Mistakes . First , He infers from Mans being Ignorant of all he ought to know , the Inability of the Light to inform him , never considering Man's Obedience or Rebellion . 2 ly , From Christs being the Light that enlightens every Man , every Man 's having the whole Christ in him ; And thirdly from our asserting God and Christ to be one , our Denial of Christs Outward Person and Bodily Appearance at Jerusalem , see pag. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , & 14. of the Dialog. and 41 , contin . of the Dial. with much more of that sort : Than which , what can be more grosly Injurious to any People . Either let him leave of Writing , or understand better what he writes against us . In short , we are willing to let the Controversie ly here ; that the Quakers own , promote and assert , that the Life of God which is the Light of Men , with which every Man is enlightened , is sufficient to everlasting Salvation ; And Thomas Hicks asserts and promotes , that this Life of God , which is the Light of Men with which all Men are enlightened , is not sufficient to Salvation . I am not willing to break my Design of following his Charge and Proofs by much controverting the Doctrine in it self , since 't is enough for me to shew , that the Doctrines and sayings he fastens upon us , and the Proofs he brings to maintain them such , are not ours : yet I am willing to mention one Passage among several others , that if I understand any thing , is a grand Contradiction to his Opinion of the Light 's Insufficiency .

He quotes Stephen Crisp thus , If the Light ought to be obeyed , then it must be sufficient . To which T.H. returns this Answer . But I appeal to the Light in thee , whether this be not an Insufficient Proof . I grant it ought to be obeyed , so ought the lawful Commands of Magistrates , Parents and Masters ; yet who will thence infer , that therefore they are a sufficient Rule to Salvation ?

Answ. This cuts the Throat of his whole Design , For by the same Reason , that such who obey the lawful commands of Masters , Parents and Magistrates are to be reputed good Servants , Children and Subjects , those who obey the Light are good Subjects , Children and Servants to God : And if those who so keep the Commandments of Parents , Masters and Magistrates , escape Punishment , and obtain their Good Will , Favour and Recompence , which is an outward Salvation ; then those who obey the Light , by his Allusion , do obtain his Favour , Love and Recompence of the Reward of Righteousness , which Righteousness , that it might be fulfilled in us , so obeying , and walking after his Spirit , was the End of God's giving his Son a Light , condemning Sin , and that they that walk thereafter , Rom. 8.9 , 10 , 11. might not have Condemnation , minding the things of the Spirit of God , the Spirit of him that raised up Christ from the Dead , the Spirit of Christ , Christ in them , not minding the Things of the Flesh , which 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or Minding , vers. 7. as it may be render'd , cannot be subject to the Law of God , but they that are subject and are led by the Spirit of God , they are the Children of God , and Heirs according to the Promise . Most Ungodly then must T. Hicks's Consequences be , that because we say , Christ enlightens every Man , pag. 8 , 9. Saul persecuted the Church , and the Heathens multiplied their False Gods by the Light within . Like unto which is his Arguing , p. 14. where he thus pretends to answer his feigned Quaker : If indeed thou knowest not what I aim at in this Question , then thy Light cannot be God , as thou sayst it is ; for God knows the Hearts and Intentions of all Men : thereby confounding the Light and Creature together , and concluding Imbecillity , Insufficiency and Ignorance in the Light , which are the Imperfections of the Creature . Was there ever any thing more Scoffing , Prophane and Dark then this ? might not the Gentiles have treated the Christians after this manner , that if they knew not all things ( whether it concerned them to know them , or not ) the Christ and Spirit they pretended to be led by , were not God ? This is so far from proving the Light not to be God , that admitting of it , it were to prove every Man a God . Is every Master as ignorant as his Schollar , because his Schollar knows not as much as his Master ? T. Hicks knows not all truth , nay T. Hicks may be led into many Mistakes ; Is his Bible , which he calls his Rule , therefore the Cause ? Certainly by his way of Arguing against the Light , if he be not Perfect & Infallible , the Scriptures must needs be Insufficient and Errable : But if it be an Evil , to make the Scripture accessory to T. H's Mistakes ; of equal Reason is it Impious in him to charge Men's Infirmities upon the Light , and repute that Insufficient , because they are Rebellious . Education , Prejudice , Interest , Self-Righteousness , Evil Living , bring Vails over the Understanding , that , though the Light shine in Darkness , they comprehend it not .

When Saul's Formality , and Pharisaical Righteousness became shaken by the Law of Light in the Conscience , then , and not till then he cries out , Oh wretched Man that I am . Whilst Saul gave more heed to his Outward Religion , then the Light in his Conscience , he did Persecute , and thought it a Duty ; 't was when the Light struck him , that he became aw●kened : But if he persecuted the Church by the Light within , why not by the Spirit too , since God gave the Jews his good Spirit ? If T. Hicks will say , But he resisted that ; so say I , as to the Light ; Formality , Tradition , and many Superstitions ( attended with an Ignorant and Harsh Zeal ) darkened him , that he could not behold it . But it is a gross Contradiction in T.H. to say , The Light ought to be obeyed ; and yet say , That it led Saul to persecute the Christians .

And he abuses many of the Heathen-Philosophers , as well as the Light , in saying , That the Light within reproved them not for multiplying their Deities . For all Learned Men must needs know , as I have else-where at large proved , that by the Light within they have decryed the Heathen-Gods , maintained the Doctrine of the One only Wise God , and for their Faith and Perseverance they have been Taken , Imprisoned , Arraigned , Condemned and Executed , though it went for justice upon the Enemies of the Gods . Who knows not this , is a Stranger to Story .

But hear T. Hicks , I demand an Instance among the many Thousands of Mankind , pag. 9. Dial. that hath been convinced , or reproved for not believing Jesus to be the Christ by the meer Light within , before any Revelation was brought unto them ; though I grant that the Light in them may reprove for those Sins , the Common Light in all Mankind will not , because thou hast borrowed much Light from the Scriptures , which all have not .

Answ. I may well suppose , that as many have been reproved for not believing Jesus to be the Christ , by the Light within , as by the Scriptures ; and my Reasons are ; First , Because those who crucified him , were Admirers of the Scripture , and pretended to prove out of their own Law , that it was both lawful and necessary , he should be put to Death ; whereas had they brought that Deed to the Light , the Light would have shown it not to have been wrought in God ; which the Scriptures without that Light could not so effectually do . 2 ly , Those who by Scripture came to any Convincement , originally received it from the Revelation of the Light within , which both opened the Scriptures and their Understandings . 3 ly , Peter , Andrew , Matthew , Nathanael , the Centurion , Ruler , Diseased Woman , &c. confess'd him from the Illumination and Operation of the Light within , since whatever makes Manifest or works Conviction , is Light ; They were not Disobeyers and Rebellers against it , who most readily received and followed Christ ; They who waited for Israel's Consolation , lived in the Just Man's Path , a shining Light , which shined brighter and brighter to the leading such as walked in it , to the great Light of Israel , when he appeared .

Further , To say that the Light we have , being much of it borrowed from Scripture , Reproves for those Sins , the Common Light in all Men will not , is great Wickedness ; for it is to say , that the Light wherewith Christ hath enlightned all Men , will not Reprove for all Sin ; thereby placing the Defect manifestly upon the Light , as before , and not upon the thick and gross Darkness ( through Disobedience of the People ) as well as that he attributes to the Scripture that Conviction , which is chiefly due to the Light . For by what Way can Mankind arrive at true Sight , Discerning and Knowledge in the Understanding part , but by the Light , and that as it shines into the Understanding ; is it not the Light to whom every Deed should be brought , to see if it be wrought in God , or no ? What can any Man solidly and beneficially learn by the Scriptures , but through the Discoveries of that Inward Light ? Are they not dark Sayings , or rather Man dark to those Sayings , if the holy Light arise not to shine forth , and give to understand their Scope and Tendency ? All Scripture but Prophecy , which was given forth by Inspiration , as Reproof , Exhortation , Doctrine , &c. were first experienced or witnessed , at whom ) Tho. Hicks may equally cavil and scoff , ( What 's your Witnessing to me ) & that through walking in the Light of the Lord , the Just Man's Path ; and were written for the sake of others , that they might be asisted and helpt to the same Experience , but not another Way , then through the same Steps they had trodden : so that the Ground of the holy Ancients Experiences now written , and of the true Knowledge of the Scriptures , and Comfort from them , as an outward Mean ; and whatever is to be obtained and enjoyed within , is originally and chiefly ascribable to the Discoveries , Convictions and Leadings of the blessed Light of Christ within , through every Generation , however variously the Principle may have been denominated ; as , the Word of God nigh , Wisdom , Light , Spirit , &c. under the Old Testament ; and Light , Grace , Truth , Christ , Spirit , Anointing , Gift of God , &c. under the New Testament .

Two short Scripture Arguments spring in my Mind for the Divinity and Sufficiency of the Light ; and from thence I shall conside this Objections :

I. If God be Divine and sufficient to Salvation , and the Word be God , and the Life of the Word , Joh. 1.5 . One with the Word and the Life of the Word , the Light of Men , then is the Light of Men Divine and Sufficient to Salvation .

But God is Divine , and Sufficient to Salvation , and the Word is God , and the Life of the Word , One with the Word , and the Life of the Word , the Light of Men.

Therefore I conclude , that the Light of Men , which is the Life of the Word , which Word is God , is Divine and Sufficient to Eternal Salvation .

II. That which was in all Ages the just Man's Path , and there where the Blood of Cleansing is known to cleanse , Prov. 4.18 . 1 Joh. 1.1.2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. Joh. 8.12 . Joh. 11.9 , 10. and by which Fellowship is enjoyed , and the Light of Eternal Life obtained , is , ever was , and ever will be a Divine , Sufficient and Saving Way ; But such a Way is the Light as the several Scriptures in the Margent will testifie . Consequently , the Light is Divine and Sufficient to Salvation .

The only Cavil at these Arguments will be this ; I deny this Light to be the Common Light in all Men. To which I say , that there cannot be Two Spiritual Lights of the Life of the Word , and not the same , if Two could be ; For whatever is of the same Nature , though not of the same Degree , is still the same in Kind . If there be another Light that is Saving , tell us from whence it comes ; but first prove this not Saving . And as these things are too Difficult , I hope , for him to compass , so is it as Ridiculous and Blasphemous to think , that God should give Man an Insufficient Light . But why any , if not Sufficient ?

I have heard and read often , That all God's Gifts are Perfe●t . 'T is strange , that his Light to Men should be so Lame , Defective and Imperfect , as T.H. represents it . But suppose this Light to be so ; Why an Insufficient Light , and a Saving Light both ? The latt●r would have done our Business . It is Injurious to Man to let him have a Fallible Guide ; For when he may think himself certain , he may be in the greatest Danger by mistaking one for the other ; or thinking not of them as they are . But Thanks be to the God of Light , we know ( for WE WITNESS ) better things , how ill a Reason , and how offensive soever Witnessing is to Thomas Hicks an Anabaptist-Teacher ; to whose Brethren , Experiences once were the great Foundation of both their Knowledge and Comfort , though now mockt at by him with great Derision in a Quaker .

But to his Objections faithfully contracted :

1. If this Light ever was and is Sufficient , how comes it , that Men have been and are so degenerated in Faith , Discipline and Worship ? They have all this Light by your Principle .

2ly , If this Light had been Sufficient , wherefore should God have superadded so many other Wayes and Means ; they would be then needless ?

3ly , Christ being the Only Saviour , who was born of a Virgin at Bethlehem , wrought Miracles , was cut off , bore our Sins , &c. I query , how all this can be affirmed of the Light ?

4ly , Are not all the Generations of Christians since Christ's time till within these very few Years certainly Lost and Damned , forasmuch as they acknowledge not this Light within , as the True Christ ?

To the first I answer , There is nothing therein , which may be thought to reflect upon the Light , but what falls as heavily upon all other Wayes , Helps , Ordinances , Appointments , yea the Scriptures , and which is more , upon God , and Christ , and the Holy Spirit too ; For if the Degeneracy of Man , that is the sad Effect of his own Rebellion , shall be a valid Proof of the Insufficiency of the Light within , then must we conclude from the Degeneracy , that hath been among Jews and Christians , and which remains to this Day , that all those Assistances , Wayes and Helps which have been given , in reality were not Potent nor Sufficient for the End they were given ; The Consequences of which Opinion of our Adversaries are these Two , and sad enough . 1. That God in his Wayes must have been and is Insufficient ; and 2. That Man never was , neither is any wayes faulty . In short , that may be sufficient to Salvation , which if neglected , will never work Salvation ; as in the Parable of the Talents may be seen .

To the Second I briefly say , That Man's Mind being so much abroad through unstable , and vain Wandrings from God's Light , the Lord in Wisdom and Condescension to the Weakness of Man , and Darkness of that Carnal State did accommodate both his Discoveries to Man , and that Worship he required from Man , according to his Capacity to receive the one , and perform the other . If God went into Outward Things to meet with Man's Mind that was abroad , to the End that gradually it might return home , shall we infer Weakness in the Light ? Man in that State was incapable ; he must have been new-molded , and as another Creation to have then received that Testimoy in all its Plainness , which God hath brought forth in after Ages .

If any will undertake to charge Weakness upon Man , let him ; But I warn all , how they conclude it against the Light , since the same falls on God and his good Spirit , who made Use of such Wayes and Means in order to gain upon Man's Mind , and beget a right Understanding and Sence of what was his Will concerning him : Besides , not only did the Divine Light and Life appear unto Man in , and through those things as Vailes ; But that which gave Man true Discerning , Repentance , and to do the Thing that ever was acceptable with God in any measure , and which was as the Soul , Life and Spirit of all the true and well-pleasing Sacrifices , was a measure of that Divine Light of Life in their Hearts at that time ; though as Samuel in a like Case , they knew it not . Let none then charge the Weakness of the Administration upon the Light , but the Generation , to whom he that is the Light of and in Men , appeared , as Mankind has been able to receive the Knowledge of him : It was not Insufficiency in God , nor in his Light or Spirit , if Man's Eyes were not strong enough to behold the Brightness , of what after Ages have beheld ; But it was his Mercy and Goodness , that he proportioned both his Discoveries and Requirings according to Man's Ability .

To conclude , The Light is still the same in it self through all Ages , and not a whit the less Sufficient , because through its Invisibility and Spirituallity , and the Wandrings abroad and great Carnallity of Man's Mind , some External Means were used , suitable to Man's Weakness , through which to reach into Man , and raise up some further Knowledge of the Spirtuallity of God's Worship : Nor because of the Light 's Sufficiency as to it self , ought any to infer , that those Wayes or Means were vain or needless ; For as the Weakness of Men should not call the Ability of the Light in Question , nor their Carnallity take off from the Light 's Sufficiency , Spirituallity or Divinity , so neither doth the Sufficiency of the Light render all Means accommodated to Man's Weakness vain or needless ; especially when the Vertue that is in them , comes from the Light of Life .

To his Third Objection , which with most Opposers carrieth the greatest Weight , I have this in Plainness and Brevity to answer .

We own not , neither do we confess to another Christ then him , who after the Flesh was born of the Virgin Mary at the City of Bethlehem in Judea , who preacht an Everlasting Gospel , worked Miracles , bore our Iniquities , and was cut off , or dyed for the People . But since Thomas Hicks would have us believe , that he is not yet Socinian enough to deny the Divinity or Godhead of Christ , and therefore that Christ was not only a Man , much less that what was born of Mary , was crucified , and laid in the Sepulchre of Joseph of Arimathia , was the Whole Christ ; I must distinguish .

The Word that was with God in the beginning , and was God , who in time took Flesh , was and is the Light of the World ; in the fulness of time he manifested himself in a more Familiar and Intimate Manner to Mankind , in order to which he prepared an Holy Body , in which he preached his Everlasting Gospel , worked many Miracles , drew many after him : He sustained grieveous Weights , the Burden of the Iniquity of the whole World lay upon him , he travelled under it , and trod the Wine-Press alone , and was pressed as a Cart with Sheaves ; And so well did he love the World , that , to testifie the same , he gave up his Life not only to recommend his Love , but to confirm his unchangeable Gospel of Remission of Sins , and Eternal Salvation to as many as believed , and followed him the Light of the World ; that so Remission might not only be preacht in his Name , but Blood also ( for it was a time of Blotting-out ; for God was in Christ reconciling the World unto himself ) In which Manifestation he not only drew many to him , & gave Testimony of his Salvation to some particulars ; but he combated the Serpent , bruised his Head , and gave him an absolute Defeat in the General , scattering his Oracles , chasing his Infernal Spirits , causing his own Light more universally to clear up , and break forth into the World , insomuch that Thousands followed him : He qualified and deputed Ambassadors ; Commissioned and Impowred them from on high ; whose Message was Powerful , and whose Ministry was Effectual ; yet when all this is said , and believed most surely , as well as exprest most plainly , That which gave the Life , Power , Virtue , Strength and Efficacy to all this , and to whom therefore eminently the Work , Salvation , Power and Glory are most deservedly ascribable , is the Word that was in the beginning with God , and was God , whose Life was , and is the Light of Men , who took Flesh , and was manifested therein . Therefore He who is our Light , ought not to be denyed , being the true Christ , and true Saviour ; For no other Light and Life then appeared in that Body , that was then an Offering for Sin once for all , is the Life and Light that we assert and defend . And for that Holy Body , it was our Lord's , as the Scripture speaks , Joseph of Arimathia begged the Body of Jesus , Mat. 27.58 . Mark 15.43 . Luke 23.52 . They found not the Body of the Lord Jesus , Luke 24.3 . He prepared it , he took it , he was manifested in it and by it ; how can we deny that Body which was our Lord's ? By no means . To conclude , though our Divine Word of Life and Light dyed not ( for Christ as God over all blessed forever , could not dye ) yet his Body did , and fo his Fulness therein and there by manifested , have we received , and Grace for Grace . So that all those who are talking of the Body of Christ , and seeking to represent us to the World as Deniers and Despisers of his Appearance , they are but in the Steps of the Persecuting Jews , who as they eryed up the Prophets , but being Strangers to their Divine Life , relisht not , savour'd not , and therefore yielded not to Christ ( the Rock who followed the Fathers in the Wilderness , the Fountain of all the Life and Refreshment of the Holy Ancients ) but with their Proud , and Conceited , and indeed Mistaken knowledge , not from , but of the Letter , and in a bitter Zeal for their dying Forms and Traditions , did they war against the Breaking forth of that Day of Salvation , and that as Heresie , Blasphemy , and the like ; so now , these Men seem busie and great Sticklers for the Body of Christ ( which they know not ) and for Bread , Wine , Water , &c. and all in Opposition to a more plain and Inward Manifestation of the Divine Light , Life and Substance shed abroad , as the Accomplishment of the Promise of the Father in this our Day and Generation . But as it fared with those of old , so shall it with these Opposers , their Visitation shall pass swiftly over their Head , and their Temple shall be cast down , and not one Stone of their fair Edifice shall be left standing upon another .

To his Last Objection I must tell him , that we have not that Uncharitableness in our Principles , which our Adversaries are guilty of . He , like the Jews of old , is ready to think every Man damn'd , nay , by his Principle , it is not avoidable , who hath not heard of the Name Christ , or is not enter'd into some kind of Church-Fellowship upon common Christian-Confessions , as they are called and distinguisht from meer Morality or Good Life : But for my part , as God had a People among the Gentiles of old , who became a Law unto themselves , doing the Things contained in the Law , whom I believe to be at Rest and Peace ( notwithstanding the severe and positive Censures I have heard from several Professors against them , and Millions more ) so , though much Darkness hath prevailed in most parts of the World , and still continueth , yet then , and where the Day of Ignorance remains , and where there hath been and is a Walking with Sincerity towards God , according to their Knowledge I do believe the Lord did and doth wink , and had and hath Mercy , though great Strangers to that Christian-Profession so much boasted of among too many in our Nation : And I doubt not , but that there may be found some Thousands both of Turks and Indians , who would not only have detested in point of Credit , but in Fear to God , dreaded doing a Tittle of what Tho. Hicks hath falsly and impudently said and done against our Persons , Practices and Principles .

In short , though God in every Age hath had a Regard to the Sincerity of Peoples Hearts , and their Upright Living , though subjected under gross Forms , and in the Darkest seasons of the World ; yet , God having now caused his Day spring from on high to visit , whereby more certain knowledge & sound Judgment is given of the Darkness that hath covered the Earth , the Superstition , Idolatries , humane Inventions , Will-Worships , Violence , Cruelty , Wantonness , Intemperance , Avarice , and all manner of Vngodliness ; all are required to harken to the Lord's Voice , to obey his Call , to let him in , and bring their Deeds unto the Light , that Christ , who is that true Light , may discover the Enemy , may bind him , spoil his Goods , and cast him out ; that he may reign over Thoughts , Words and Deeds ; so shall such be able to say as David did , O , all that is within me , praise his holy Name ! For Christ will be known , as he is the Saviour of the Soul from Death , the Restorer of Paths , to dwell in , who destroyes the Works of the Devil , and brings in Everlasting Righteousness to the Soul . And though few observe it , That which is truly commend able in any People , proceeds from the secret Power and Efficacy of that Inward Principle we so much testifie of : 'T is that convinces , discovers , reproves , restraines , tenders , humbles , and affects the Soul , and not their several Outward Forms , which , with Robbery to the Light or Grace within , they are apt to attribute it to , and whereby the Devil beguiles them into a Continuance of them . Wherefore let all our Opposers be dehorted from their vehement out-crys ; for who withstand , revile and set at naught this Blessed Appearance , God , the Lord of Heaven and Earth , will break them to pieces , if they come not to timely Repentance for it .

CHAP. IV.

Of the True Evangelical Rule .

ANd this forever raises the Foundation of T. H's Building : as indeed how can any thing so infirm long continue , built upon Forgery , and the hight of all Partiality : who makes us Hereticks , that he may be found ; and abusive , that he may either shew his own Patience , or colour his frequent base Revisings of us : I say , this overthrows his whole Discourse about the Scriptures being the Rule of Faith and Practice under the New Covenant . For , what ever is more Ancient , more Vniversal , and Able to Inform , Rule and Guide , that must eminently be the Rule ; but that has been , and is the Light within : consequently that has been and ought to be the Rule of Faith and Practice . That it has been and ought still to be the Rule exprest , is proveable thus .

That which led those holy Men into those things , of which the Scripture is a Declaration , must needs have been the Rule ; But that was the Principle of God within , by what Name soever denominated . That this is true , let it suffice to say , That who walked in the Light in any Age , so far walkt in the Counsel of God . And that all Mankind had an Ability from God so to do , is our Belief , what Abbridgement soever T. Hick's detestable Opinion of Reprobation may make of the Love of God .

That it ought still to continue to be the Rule of Faith and Life , I prove thus , That which is every where , which makes manifest that which is displeasing , and that which is acceptable to God , without which the Scriptures are unintelligible , and by living up to which Men only may come to witness the Truth of those things declar'd of in the Scriptures , must be , and ought to be the Rule of Faith , &c. But all this is true of the Light ; which is further proved thus .

The Light Thomas Hicks acknowledges all Men have . The Light Thomas Hicks acknowledges all Men ought to attend unto : Pag. 7. Now unless some Man , who hath lived unblameably up to the Light can give us a Demonstration of its Insufficiency to shew , and teach him that further thing , that God requires him to believe and do , there can be no valid Argument against the Light 's Sufficiency . If T.H. dare be the Man , we shall joyn Issue with him in the Tryall of the Matter : But if the Light be before hand with Man-kind , furnishing him still with Work enough to do , as it certainly ever hath done , and still doth , let it be known to T.H. that such as would know more of Christ's Doctrines , must first do his Will according to what they do know : And as it is the common Method of the Dealing of God towards the Sons of Men ; So is it great Impiety in any Man to infer or conclude Insufficiency to be in the Light to discover and teach Man what he ought to know and do , from Man's Ignorance of all , that he ought to know and do ; since the Ground of that Ignorance is , his not doing , what the Light of God requires from him , as his present Duty to perform .

That the Scriptures are Vnintelligible without it , is easily prov'd from the Variety of Judgments that are in the World about most of the Fundamental Doctrines contained therein ; as about God's Essence and Similitude , Christ and the Spirit , their Divinity , Predestination , Original Sin , Free-Will , Redemption , Satisfaction , Justification , Faith and Works . In short , the whole End of Christs Coming , Living and Dying they are strongly controverted : Now were the Scriptures so clear capable to determine in these Matters , the Differences would quickly end ; But since the utmost Ability they of themselves can give , is not enough to render those Things obvious , that are now doubtfull , and disputable ; There is a Necessity of Man's Recourse to some other thing , which is able to discover the Mind and Intendment of the holy Pen-Men . Now I would be glad to know of any sober Man , if any thing besides the Light shining into the Understanding is able to give true Sight , Discerning and Judgment about the Points controverted ? would it not be reputed Madness to bid Men read , that have no Eyes , or if they have Eyes , at least no Light to read with them ? The whole Scripture , as it relates to Man's Duty , is a Declaration of the woful State of Darkness , and the blessed State of Light and Life , with the Way of Translation out of the one into the other . And was this Knowledge without Experience , or by and through Experience ? I hope no Man will say , the holy Pen-Men were not Witnesses of the things they wrote : and if they were , I would fain know , by what other Way they came to understand and comprehend the Darkness that was within , then by the Light within ; And to know the Temptations and Subtilties of the Spirit of Darkness , the Discoveries , Reproofs and Leadings of the Light , the Tryals , Travels , Exercises , and finally the perfect Translation so frequently expressed in these holy Writings , but through the Manifestation of the Light of Christ in the Conscience , their Obedience to it , and ' its Operation to their Redemption and Sanctification . So that the State of Judgment , Repentance , Remission , Regeneration , called the New Birth , and perfect Justification , were their Experiences ( or Witnessings , for all T. Hicks ) from the Inward Work of God's Light upon their Hearts and their Souls , which though the Scriptures declare of them , they can never bring Man into , nor can any Man groundedly aver the Truth of those things , till he comes through Obedience to the Light in his own Conscience to experience the same Judgment , Repentance , Remission , Regeneration , called the new Birth , and perfect Justification before God ; Since then the Scriptures can do none of these things of themselves , however Instrumental they may be of Good , but the holy Light in the Conscience , and that these things are not knowable , though they may be read , talked and writ of , without being lead by the same Spirit , and treading the same Steps of deep Experience the holy Ancients trod in , and have left us for an Example , it must be granted , whether T. Hicks will or no , That the Author of those Discoveries , Convictions , Judgments , &c. must be the Standing Immutable Rule to the Soul , what , how far , and which way we are to deny or own , reject or embrace , relinquish or follow , with Respect to those things that please God , or that please him not .

His Objections I shall contract into these Four , urged by him for the Scriptures , and against the Light 's being the Rule of Faith and Practice ; and indeed they are the greatest Strength of his Book , if any it has .

First , The Light within cannot give a clear and distinct Account how Sin came to be ; if we consult the Wisest Philosophers , Dial. p. 21 , 22 , 33. we shall find a deep Silence touching this Point : They saw Sin did overflow , but could not by all the Improvements of the Light in them , find out how Sin came to be .

I am perswaded T. Hicks never consulted so much as the meanest of them , at least effectually ; had he , his Dialogue would have savoured of more true Science and Morality ; for I will make it appear that he has contradicted himself , abused the Philosophers , and blasphemed the Light in this one Passage .

Where there is no Law there is no Transgression ; then where there is Transgression , there is a Law . Now T. Hicks granting that the Heathen knew there was Sin , they must know it by Virtue of some Law that made it so . This Law was not written , but themselves declared , God had imprinted it upon their Hearts , Pythag. Socrat. Cleanth . &c. as an Immutable and Infallible Guide to them in their Actions . If so , how could they be Ignorant of Sin 's coming into the World ? Who knew it to be a Deviation from God's living Commandment in their own Conscience , and a Committing quite Contrary Things ? If T. Hicks means by clear and distinct Account the History of Moses ; that is , that Adam and Eve were beguiled by the Serpent , who tempted them with an Apple , &c. 't is no wayes to his Purpose ; For that which is Sufficient to that Faith which concerns Salvation is , to know that God is , that he is Pure and Holy , that he has given Man the Knowledge of himself , and his Will concerning Him by some Inward Law , Command , Light , Grace , or Spirit ; and that who acts not correspondently to this Guide is a Transgressor , and incurs the Penalty ; and that the Heathen had this , their Books at large tell us : Nor does Tho. Hicks deny it , so that he manifestly contradicts Himself , and abuseth the Philosophers in saying , They could not find out , how Sin came , since they expresly say , That God made all Good , and that Man's Erring from the Divine Law in him brought Evil into the World . And I boldly affirm , and in the next Head will prove , that the meer History is not absolutely necessary to Salvation .

Now that herein he has Blasphemed against the Light , is evident ; since it is to say , That God gave Men a Law and Light not sufficient to let them see , how Sin entered the World ; which is to say in plainer English , what is Sin ; it will and must end there . Besides , suppose the Philosophers had been Ignorant , must it needs follow ▪ that the Fault and Want was in the Light , and not in them ? Will T. Hicks become their Warrant in the Matter , that they arrived as high , as the Light could teach them , and that the Deficiency lay on the side of their Teacher , and not on theirs ? Confident , yea Impudent Man ! Why should either the Darkness of any Age be charged upon the Light , or render it Insufficient ; or the more clear Breaking forth of Light in a following Generation be reputed another Light , because another Degree then what obscurely shined forth in the former ; since it was not the obscurer in it self , but through the gross Blackness that might have over-cast that People because of Disobedience , it seemed so to them ? But let us hear him further .

2. Nor can this Light give any Account of that Remedy which God in his infinite Wisdom provided , Jesus Christ , Pag. 33. Dial. that he should be born of a Virgin , dye for others , and rise the third day : This is the Pinch .

But I answer : First , That the Prophets saw it by this Light , unless that they saw it without Light , or that the Light they saw it by , was not the Light of Christ , as the Word that was with God , and was God ; which , I hope , T. Hicks upon serious Thinking will not say ; for of no other do we speak . 2 ly , Those that believed him , when he came , could never have received him , had they not seen him by an Inward Eye , enlightned by that Light in measure in themselves , which then so unmeasurably appeared in him ; For the Jews had the Scriptures , and according to their Understanding of them , they reputed him a Blasphemer ; and both plotted , promoted , and obtained his Crucifixion . The Question will be , Why did they not better understand them ? The Answer is , because they Rebelled against that Spirit which could only so inform them : Had they brought their Deeds to the Light , they had received sound Judgment , and a true Measure would have been given them , which they rejecting , that was both the Ground of their Ignorance , and the Just Reason of their Condemnation . Hence we see , that Light , and not the Scriptures was the higher Rule and Judge of Thoughts , Words and Deeds , yea , and which way the Scriptures themselves were to be understood ; And truly it is strange , that the Light in Men should not lead naturally to its own Being and Fountain . 'T is Proverbial among Men The Way to the Fountain Head is to trace the Stream . I● the Light in Man leads not to Christ , who gives th● Light , let us leave off all Talk of Religion ; for t● what , or whom else was it given to lead us ?

But Thomas Hicks , tell me , Who , or what w●● Christ in that Manifestation it self , but that D●vine Word , Life or Light manifested in Flesh ? Wil● not then a Measure of the same in Man , lead him ●● course to acknowledge the Fulness , or in following its Leadings bring to Eternal Salvation ; Or can that Light resist that Manifestation , as thou dost elsewhere seem to affirm ?

If Christ his enlightned Men with the Light of his own Life , Dial. p. 38.42 . and if they are required to bring their Deeds to be tryed by it , and if they are invited to follow it , and in following it , are promised , no more to abide in Darkness , but have the Light of Life , because of the Blood of Cleansing , that is therein met with , whereby such are cleansed from all Vnrighteousness , and yet the Light ne●ther a Rule nor Saving , then what else can be either a Rule or Saving ?

But this Light ( says he ) could not tell any that Jesus should be born of a Virgin , dye for Sinners and rise again . But this is so great a Mistake , that had he conversed with the Sibylls or other Heathen Writers , he might in good part have informed himself to the contrary . But here I distinguish of Faith , There is an Historical and Saving Faith , and there is an Historical and Saving Rule ; as the Faiths , so the Rules differ , If T. Hicks sayes that 't is the Scriptures that give the Knowledge of those Transactions , I m●st then understand him to mean Historically , if I assent , which is not Saving ; for then all who believe those things to have been , must therefore be saved ; the contrary to which is daily seen with our Eyes : since who believes not that Report among those , who are yet in great Wickedness ? But if we are to penetrate deeper , and that T Hicks should hold as he seems plainly to do , that what Faith we can have of the most weighty Truths declared of in the Scriptures , is from it , and not from the Light or Spirit within , I must firmly deny it ; For Faith is God's Gift , not the Scriptures Gift : No , so far is the Scripture from giving Faith , that it is God's Spirit alone , that gives both to understand and believe them . The Scripture tells me of such Prophecies , Histories and Epistles , and of such Men as Moses , Job , David , Isaiah , Matthew , Paul and John ; But what is it that gives me to believe the Things they writ of to be true ? Is it not the Testimony and most certain Amen in the Conscience ? and what is that there , which seals to those excellent Truths ? Which way then can the Scripture be a Rule to me in believing the Scripture , when that Faith is begotten of God by his Light and Spirit concerning the Scripture ? If the meer Scripture could give me Faith , then it might be allowed to rule my Faith ; but when God by his Spirit alone begets Faith , and without which I can neither understand nor believe the Scriptures , tell me , If God's Spirit be not the Rule of my Faith ; what , how far , and which way I am to believe them , or the things believed ? Certainly they can never be my Rule , How far , and which way I am to believe themselves , who of themselves cannot give me that Faith ; but it must be wrought by another thing ; so that what gives to believe , rules the Belief , and not the Thing believed : Therefore the Scriptures cannot be the Rule of Faith .

Now as to this of Christ's Outward Manifestation , I say , so far as it is Historical , the Scripture is that which furnisheth me with a Belief ; But I utterly deny , that they give to believe it in that deep Sense , which may be truly called a Saving Faith .

The Pharisees had the Scriptures , and they pretended to admire Moses and the Prophets ; yet they crucified Christ , and sought to countenance their Murder by Scripture . Now had they believed and esteemed the Writings of Moses and the Prophets from an Inward Sence of Gods Spirit ( which the meer Scriptures could not furnish them with ) they had rightly understood them , and not made so ill an Use of their Historical Knowledge , as to crucifie the Lord of Life and Glory . This shews that Men may have an Historical Faith , and yet not the True Faith nor Knowledge of the Scriptures , what then gives to believe aright now ? why truely that which did then : the Light and Spirit of Truth ; no Man could call Jesus Lord without it , that is truly so , or upon good ground . No Man could confess that Christ was come in the Flesh , but whose Spirit was of God , yet now nothing is more common , & yet nothing is more True then that Thousands of them are not of God , but lie in Wickedness alienated from the Life of God , &c. what is the matter then ? why this , Those who then confest that Jesus was come in the Flesh , did it by Virtue of an Invisible Sight , and through a Divine Illumination in their Souls : For impossible had it otherwise been for them in any measure to have seen through the Vail of his Flesh , into that Divine Life , Power and Wisdom that Vnmeasurably filled it , but having some inward Sence and Taste of that most excellent Being , that was manifested in and by that bodily Appearance , therefore did they confess to it , and their Spirits truely reputed by John to be of God .

And as in that day it was Impossible for any truly and acceptably to confess to Christ , without a Discerning given , and Faith wrought by the Light and Spirit of God in the Heart , which was the saving Faith ; so is it now equally Impossible for any to believe that Christ appeared , and that he spake and did all these great things , so as to be benefitted thereby , and any wayes accepted of God therein , but as the Light and Spirit of Truth open those Things to the Understanding , and from a measure of that Divine Life which then immeasurably appeared ( for we have all received of his Fulness and Grace for Grace ) true Faith comes to be begotten in that Manifestation , and a right Confession unto it . In short , He that calleth Christ Lord , must now , as then , do it by the Holy Ghost , that is from an Experience or Witnessing of his Dominion , and Rule , which , through the Operation of the holy Spirit , the Soul is to be subjected to , so that who believes more then Historically that Christ came in the Flesh , must do it by Virtue of the Divine Light and Spirit , who alone gives to relish and savour the Truth , Nature and End of that Appearance .

And though it may be allowed , that the Scripture is a Rule , respecting the History , as it was to those of old , in reference to the particular Prophecies fulfilled in Christ's coming ; yet as there was then a more Inward and Heavenly Sence of Christ , which drew many after him , and begot deep Faith in him , so must there now be a more Inward Spiritual and deep grounded Faith of those things recorded in Scripture , of Christs Appearance , &c. then the meer Letter is able to give . And therefore that Light and Spirit which gives that discerning , and works that deep Sence and Faith must needs be as well the Rule as Author of it , and not the Scriptures ; For if the Scriptures be the Rule , then either of Themselves or by Interpretation . If of Themselves , then either in their Translations , or Originals . Not in the Translations , unless the Translators had been so inspired , that they mist not a tittle , which I am sure is not so ; and consequently none but Schollars have a Rule , for the Unlearned are secluded ; & therefore the English Bible is not a Rule .

If in the Originals of Hebrew and Greek ; Query , In what Copies ? There are various Lections in Hebrew : And for the New Testament , so called , there are no less then Thirty Copies , and all differing ; in fine , there are many Thousands of various Readings .

Now let 's Dialogue a little upon Supposition only .

Quaker ,

If by Interpretation , who shall interpret ? Meer Man ?

Anabaptist ,

No.

The Light within ?

No.

The Spirit ?

No.

The Church .

What Church ?

Shall Right Reason interpret ?

Yes , sayes T.H.

I Query , Which of them is the Rule ? And when that 's found out and determined , then let T. Hicks prove that it is unquestionably true , and has remained Uncorrupted through every Generation : And by that time he has done all this , he shall have done a great deal towards our Satisfaction . But what is this Right Reason ?

'T is a Faculty in Man rectified .

Very well ; But who has this rectified Faculty ?

Thomas Hicks , say .

Has none it but he ?

Yes .

Have none Right Reason but such ?

It was an old Saying ▪ Dip or Damn ; but Interest has taught us more Discretion .

Well then ; Others may have Right Reason that are not dipped ?

We say so , whatever we think among our selves .

What 's the peculiar benefit of Dipping ?

Much every way .

But which way ?

We are brought into Church-Fellowship .

Are you brought into Fellowship with God by it ?

No ; I cannot say so .

No! what 's your Fellowship worth then ? the Saints Fellowship was in the Light , and the true Church-Fellowship was in Spirit : What do you receive when you are dipt ?

Nothing .

Are you no better ?

No.

Why , I once thought you received the Holy Ghost out of hand ?

I thought so too , but was Mistaken .

Why wert thou dipt then ?

To fulfil the Scripture .

But what led thee to it ?

My own desire .

Is not that Will-Worship ?

What , to do as the Scripture exhorts ?

How knowest thou it exhorted to it ▪

I thought so .

Is that enough ? Where 's your being lead by God's Spirit ? But to our Business .

How shall I know Tho. Hicks has this Reason before mention'd ?

He loftily sayes so .

But is that sufficient ? Well , but where is this Right Reason ?

In Men.

Is it so ? Then it seems that which gives the true Knowledge of the Scripture is in Man . But tell me honestly , Do ye believe this Right Reason may Err ?

No ; For then it were not Right Reason , if it could be Wrong .

Well argued . But if a Man Errs , is it not the Fault of Right Reason ?

By no means .

Thou speakest honestly . But why then does T. Hicks charge the Light , the Quakers profess , with every short-sighted imperfect Saying or Action of this or any other Generation .

Does he ?

Yes ; it is the great Drift of his Books .

Truly that 's not fair .

Honestly said . But if this Right Reason cannot Err , then Man cannot Err ?

No , that does not follow ; for Man may not submit to it .

Why , may Man have something in him that cannot Err , and he not be Unerrable ?

Yes .

Rightly said . But why then does T. Hicks conclude so of ●● ?

It is unfairly done .

Very well . But you say , that this Right Reason is part of Man's Soul , or I am mistaken , see Dial. pag. 32. If so , then Man's Soul must be Infallible ?

Oh , Infallible ; that word affrights us . What , Infallible ? Pray what 's Infallible ?

Poor Man ! I see it scares thee indeed . Why , Unerrable and Infallible are all one . Yea , Right Reason is Infallible by the same Reason , that it cannot be Wrong .

But the Popes talk of being Infallible ; are not you like them ?

Never the more like them for that ; Talking , and Being so , are Two Things . Men should not deny the true Christ because of an Imposture ; nor any fear Infallibility because the Pope makes Market with such Pretences . If thou art not certain of what thou believest , thou hast not that Faith which was once delivered to the Saints ; for that was Certain , and therefore Infallible .

Why , Is Certain and Infallible all one ?

Yes , Certainty and Infallibility is the same . But what think'st thou of the Light in this Case under Debate ? for either it is the Rule , or it is given to understand & use the Rule , or else it s given for nothing ?

'T is not the Rule we are taught to say ; and yet we cannot conclude it to be given for nothing .

Very well ; then it must be given in order to understand and use the Rule . Now supposing the Scriptures be the Rule , that which informs me of my Rule , and teaches me how to use it , must be greater then my Rule , in that it teaches me to know and do that my Rule cannot do of it self : I query then , If this Light be not my Rule , how and which Way I come to understand and use this Rule . So that it is eminently the Rule because of its Present , Immediate and Certain Direction and Knowledge , and the Scripture at most but a kind of Declaratory and Secondary Rule , and therefore subject to the Holy Spirit in the Apostles and primitive Christians , who took not Measures by it , when it distinguisht the Ceremonial from the Moral Precepts so intermixed in the 19th of Leviticus , and other places ; but their Minds being exercised and guided by that Holy Living Rule , they left off , or continued for a time several Jewish Observations , as there might be a Service therein signified to them from that Living Rule . The Light and Spirit of God then , is both THE Rule of Faith and Guide of Life , superior to the Scriptures , and That by which only they can be rightly known , believed and fulfilled . A Doctrine Evangelical , and not disowned by those first Protestants , who testified that no Man could understand the Scriptures given forth by Inspiration , but by a measure of the same Spirit . To conclude , Historical Faith , Scripture is a Rule of , but Doctrinal and Saving Faith the Light and Spirit of God can only be the Rule of ; for that which giveth Faith is only that which rules Faith .

3 But ( says he ) how could you have known , that Swearing in any Case were Vnlawful , if it had not been written , Dial. P. 22. Swear not at all ; Is not then that Scripture your Rule in this Case ?

But this shews both the Ignorance of T. Hicks in the Writings of the best Gentiles , and his Acknowledgment of the Light 's Sufficiency , in case we are able to prove Swearing disallowed and dispract●ised before Christ's Coming in the Flesh .

The Seven Wise Men famous among the Greeks , and Contemporaries above five hundred years before Christ came in the Flesh , esteemed Swearing but a Remedy against Corruption , in Evidence : Stob. 28. To be sure , they both believ'd and exhorted People to that State which needed it not .

Socrates plainly sayes , that there is a Life more firm , and unquestionable then an Oath . Consequently Swearing not the best State . Id. 114.

And Xenocrates was had in that Veneration in Athens for his exceeding Virtue , Val. Max. 2.10 . Cic. pro Bal. Laert. that the Magistrates thought it a questioning of his Honesty to offer him any Oath , and therefore refused , implying , that Oaths were not made for the best of Men , and that there is a State attainable , which is more excellent , then that , in which Oaths are used .

And thus was that Evangelical Precept , Swear not at all , arrived at , preferred , and honour'd by profest Gentiles about five hundred years before it was uttered by our Lord Jesus Christ , therefore the Light from T. H's Objection answered is proved Sufficient .

4 But here is an utter Insufficiency ( if we will believe him ) in this meer Light within to direct us the right Way of Worshipping God ; This , Dial P. 35.36 . sayes he , is manifest from the great Loss the Wisest among the Heathen have been , and are at , about this very thing , the Multiplying their Deityes ▪ Worshipping Devils , &c.

He is an incompetent Witness against the Light 's Sufficiency , that has never tryed the Extent of its Ability by a Life conform'd to what it leads to : If T. Hicks walkt without all Reproof , it were something ; But for a Man to talk of its Insufficiency , whilst it shews that which he is not come up to , as well as that it condemns for daily Failings is Arrogancy with a Witness .

But why is it Insufficient to direct him the Right Way of Worship . Because T. Hicks has not found it ; Is it a good Argument against the Scripture , that because those who pretend to Square their Faith by it , manifestly Err , therefore it is Insufficient to direct them Right ? Tho. Hicks will never allow this against the Scriptures ; and yet he calls us Names for not tacitly suffering his base Abuses against the Lord's Light . Rom. 1.19 , 20. What if any of the Heathen became vain in their Imginations , who when they knew God , worshipped him not as God , will it follow , that God's Manifestation of himself ( as the Apostle plainly speaks ) in Man , was an Insufficient Manifestation ? The Jews turned Idolaters , they worshipp'd a Calf , and offer'd their Children to Moloch ( Devotion made up of Murder and Idolatry ) was God's Light , Law or Good Spirit , and that whole Series of Love and Mercy shown unto them , Insufficient , because of their Rebellion ? I affirm that Thomas Hicks by this Argument is the horridst Blasphemer that ever lived among Men ; For if the false Deities of the Heathen , and their worshipping of Devils , with the horrid Idolatries of the Jews , were not the Effects of their own Erring from a Sufficient Light or Manifestation , to have better informed & directed them , but through the Insufficiency of the Light to discover the True God , & how to worship him , T.H. has evidently laid that horrid Charge at God's Door ; for he could not reap where he had not sown . And thus far doth he render the Almighty accessory to those Impieties , that he gave not Man a Sufficiency of Light to inform him better , that he might have escaped so gross Abomination ; which ends in that detestable Doctrine of Eternal Vnconditional Reprobation ; an Off-spring of Satan , a Murderer from the beginning .

In short , Christ is the Light of Men : The Way of the Just is a shining Light : He that is the Way , Truth and Life , is the Light ; Therefore those who Worship God according to the Light , Worship him in the Spirit and in the Truth , and walk in the Just Man's Path : For that Men should walk up to the Light of Christ , and yet be Ignorant of the Right Way of Worship , is gross Ignorance and Darkness . For Tho. Hicks then to say , that God doth make more known then is , or can be known by the Light , is false and contradictory ; For unless there be two Distinct Divine Lights by Nature ( which is an absurd Thing , so much as to conceive ) or that God can manifest any thing without Light , it will follow , that both the Light is One , and that by that One Light it is , whereby God hath revealed himself through all Ages : And here I would be well understood ; for I know one Age hath been attended with larger Discoveries , yet this argues no Deficiency to have been in the former Manifestation , though it implies Weakness in the People that they could not receive the same Light in a greater . The Light is therefore One in it self , however variously it may break forth in any Age and Generation ; I know it hath arisen higher and higher ; the Difference is in Degrees , not in Nature ; and so T.H. in great contradiction to himself acknowledges , Dial. pag. 36. What hath been the Duty of every Age , it hath shewen , and the best Reason and Rule for the Obedience to any thing superadded hath been the Convictions and Leadings of the Light , according to that Manifestation , it gave before : Those that went from the Light , and sat down , grew Rich in Literal Knowledge , were the Opposers of the more glorious Breaking forth of Light , and not those who kept close to what was revealed . So 't is at this Day ; Such as have kept to the Tendering Grace and Spirit among Professors , such are most moderate to us , and inclin'd after us ; The Hard , Dry and Cavilling amongst them , as they are strongest in their Combattings , like the Pharisees of old , so are they most darkened from the Light , and most of all despise the Testimony of it , and set at nought and oppose , as to the Death , all those who are become Witnesses of the fresh Resurrection of Light and Life ( If I may so speak ) in the Hearts of People . I know not what better to call them , then Thieves and Robbers , spoken of by Christ , who have gone aside from the tender Spirit of Jesus Christ , that in Dayes past strove with them , and with whose secret Voice they were in some measure affected , and have set up themselves in a Form , without Power , Praying , Preaching , Dipping and all other Acts of Worship , Ordinance , &c. without the Leadings of God's Spirit : Wherfore , said Christ , of the like People ; All that came before me are Thieves and Robbers , they climbe over the Wall , Jo. 10. they come not in at the Door ; which Door is that State of Witnessing , at which that Light and Frothy Prophanist , T.H. bestowes so many foul Reflections ; forgetting how much of the ancient Puritan , Brownist and Baptist Religion 〈◊〉 made up of Experiences , which with Men that understand Words , hath the same Signification , as well as that Witnessing is more Scriptural . And indeed , I wonder not at all at it ; for where Men that have had some Inward Sense of Life Eternal , give not way to the more full Breaking forth of the same , but run into Forms , and take up their Rest by the way , and so come to withstand it , they ●ose what they had , and center , where those be who at first oppos'd them , emptying from one to the other till they arrive at Rome again , that so the Battel may be of Michael and the Devil , the True Church against the False , Power and Form of Godliness against Form without Power , and the Traditions , Superstions and Inventions of Men ; by which they have endeavoured to make void God's Law : For whoever have lost their Inward Sense of God , and withstand the Propagation of that Inward Religion , however their Form may be more scriptural , the same Spirit enters them that reigned in their old Persecutors , and they at last run back , and end in that , from whence they at first reformed . So dangerous is it to rest satisfied with a finer Form , which in Truth is but a better Covering for the old Enemy of God's Spirit and Power to act more disguisely and securely in .

But lest any should think that all this is said to justle the Scriptures out of all Use and Service , read these few lines following with Patience and Impartiality . Though we eminently account the Light or Spirit of Christ to be the Gospel , Living and Immediate Rule ( as the great Promise of the Father ( and that without being ruled and lead or guided by , there is no being a Child of God ) yet we do not thereby intend an Exclusion of the Scriptures from being Obligatory , or as not Declaratory of those heavenly blessed Truths , that are fit to be read , believed and practised ; God forbid . No , we know better and practise otherwise , and have good Satisfaction therein . Nor do we say that those essential Things relating to Faith and Godliness mentioned therein are by us to be sleighted or contradicted ; or that the Light and Spirit we are led by , doth or can lead to any such thing ; for by its Holy Discoveries and Convictions are we made acquainted with them ; and our Faith concerning them is firm , and they are thereby made our Duty , and such is their Correspondence and Agreement , that from an INWARD ASSENT AND LIVING AMEN , FROM GOD's LIGHT IN OUR CONSCIENCES do we testifie of their Truth , Vse and Dignity . And very vain is T. Hick's Objection , If your Light be Sufficient , why do you read them ? since we may return to him the same ; If the Scriptures be Sufficient why dost thou use other Means ? Though God's Grace be Sufficient of it self , therefore is the Creature always in that Condition , wherein he needs not Means ? And notwithstanding it be the Dispensation of Light and Life , more Immediately then has been known to former Ages , yet we deny not the Use of such Means , as may be used of God's Light and Spirit , as will be spoken more largly to elsewhere . Man's Mind being Carnal and abroad , Means in God's Power are us'd not as settl'd Teachers , but as Instruments in God's Hand to testifie of and direct to that one Great Prophet and Living Teacher in the Hearts of Men , that all may come thither , and be taught of him .

CHAP. V.

Of his Insinuations against us concerning the Scriptures

BUt T.H. that he may be true to his Ungodly Way of perverting our Principles , would insinuate , First , That we esteem the Scriptures no farther , P. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 26 , 27 , 28 , 29 , 30. then as they were the Experiences of Ancient Saints , thereby rendering the many Prophecies and Promises therein recorded , not yet fulfilled , Vnprofitable . But to take off all Credit to this evil Suggestion , let our sober Readers know , that by the Light of Christ in our own Hearts and Consciences as to confirm what of the Scriptures we have experienced , and press after the Compleatment of those Enjoyments therein expressed ; so are we taught reverently to believe those holy Prophecies and Promises yet unaccomplished to have been given forth by the Inspiration of the Almighty ; and that they shall be as certainly fulfilled , as they are written . Yet we dare boldly affirm , and that in the Name of the Lord ( before whom we shall give an Account for every Deed done in the Body ) that the greatest Reason of our Belief concerning them , is not from any Outward thing , but that Inward Testimony , Record and Heavenly Amen , that we have frequently received from the holy Light within us , to the Truth and Faithfulness of those Sayings . And if any Quakers there be that are not thus minded , they are to me unknown , and I publickly renounce , and protest against that Principle that would in the least derogate from those Holy Writings ; which leads me to his Second Insinuation , viz. As if because we do deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice , in Honour to that Divine Light , which was the Author of them in the Holy Pen-men , that we should therefore deny all those holy Precepts , Commandments and Rules relating to Life and Godliness that are therein contained : A Consequence so foul , that God forbid any of us should ever give any Just Occasion for it ; For we both believe Men ought to liv● up to them , and that they are highly Reprov●able if they transgress against them But the Reason why , is that Conviction they meet with from the Light in their own Consciences ; wherefore the Scriptures are so far from being the great Rule of Faith and Practice , that the Light of Christ within is both our Warrant and Rule for Faith in , and Obedience to them . And let T.H. say if he can , that the Waldenses , Albigenses , Lo●lards , Hussites , Lutherans , Calvinists and other Protestants made not the Testimony of God in their Conscience the chief Ground of their Belief of the Scriptures ; to say nothing of the primitive Christians and most uncorrupted Fathers , who are many and positive on our behalf .

3 ly , He insinuates , that we equal , nay prefer our Books before the Scriptures , because of the Titles we give our own Books . viz. The Voice of Wisdom , A Testimony for God , &c. and what we give the Scripture , namely . Letter , &c. This I have largely spoken to in my Answer to J. Faldo , but not knowing whether ever that may be where this probably may come , I shal say thus much , If at any time we call the Scripture the Letter , it is not that we mean thereby , our Books are the Spirit , or that we would irreverently set them below our Writings , but upon a Comparison only betwixt the Scriptures and the Spirit that gave them forth , and that , I hope , may be done without the least Disrespect , though such whose Religion stands in Letter and Time , and not in Spirit and Power , be angry at it . But that we should be thought to sleight the Scriptures , because we bestow such Names upon our Books , is a strange kind of Consequence . Are not our Books mostly written in a plain , familiar and Scripture-stile ? Do we not earnestly endeavour to confirm what we write by Scripture , which not only renders it a Pa●t of our Book , but the most Noble Part too ? And shall we notwithstanding be reputed Sleighters of the Scriptures ? Certainly if our Books are called , The Voice of Wisdom , and A Testimony for God , because from the Voice of Wisdom , and God's Witness in the Conscience ; by good Reason must the Scriptures be interested therein , who are both a part of them , and such a one too as unto whom our Quotation implies a Manifest Preference .

His next Insinuation is , that it is Dangerous for Ignorant People to read the Scriptures , pag. 42. Contin . pag. 3. flinging those hateful Names of Jesuit and Romanist upon us . This Doctrine he layes to the Charge of G. Fox and Rich. Hubberthorn , in a Book called , Truth 's Defence , pag , 101. But the truth of the matter I will relate out of that Book it self , which has been most partially and basely represented by him .

The Priest's Query lies thus , Whether the Scripture being Carnal , and the Letter Killing , as you say , we may read them without Danger ?

Answ. The Letter which killeth , 2 Cor. 3.6 . is Dangerous ; for thou takest it here to war withal against the Saints , with thy Carnal Mind , giving out thy Carnal Expositions upon it : And the Ministers of the L●tter are Ministers of Death , which is to Condemnation , and you take it to make a Trade with it , and with what the Prophets , Christ and the Apostles said ; so that some have Sixty , some an Hundred pound a Year : But Christ cryed , Wo unto such Whited Walls . And here you read with Danger , who speak of them , and speak a Lye , because you speak of your selves , and you wrest the Scriptures to your own Destruction , and to you it is Dangerous to read or speak of it , who know not the Li●e of it as the Pharisees , who were learned in the Letter , but knew not Ch●ist . But I say , Blessed is he that doth read , and doth understand .

This is the true Account in brief ●f their Answer to the Pri●st's Qu●ry : And I appeal to God's Witness in the Reader 's Conscience , if any thing of wh●t that Vile Man would suggest , is to be found in these M●ns Words ; who by Letter evidently mean the Legal State of Condemnation ; by Dangerous , not what Edification was to be got with respect to reading , but that Aggravation of Punishment , which would be the Recompence of those who make a Trade of them , and oppose them , Pharisee like , to the Life and Spirit of Christ Jesus , wresting them to their own Destruction . Reading to such End and Purpose , will prove Dangerous with a Witness . And that it was at such a sort of Reading they struck , consider this Passage , But I say , Blessed is he that doth read and doth understand .

Let this Forgery so obvious , ring through the Streets and Towns , where-ever his Book or Name is known ; however this is little to what 's behind . For my part I speak my Conscience in Sincerity ; I had rather perish off the Earth , then live so great a Burden of foul Dishonesty , as I doubt not but a little time will manifest him to be .

That the Baseness of his Intentions in this kind of Arguing may yet further appear , let this gross Inference directly charged by him upon our Principle , of the Light 's being our Rule , be diligently considered .

From our Asserting the Light Within to be our Rule , he tells the World , That we mean the holy Qualification , that is in us : Pag. 20. Which were it true , he would hit the Mark , when he sayes , that Holiness , being a Conformity to the Rule , it cannot be the Rule But never yet certainly did any but Thomas Hicks so mis-represent the poor Quaker : Nay , he Confounds and Contradicts himself . How can we be said to make our Holiness the Rule , when we affirm it only to be a walking up to the Light within , which is Holy ? He sayes that we assert the Light to be the Rule , how then is our Obedience to it the Rule ; for that is true Holiness ? Is there no difference between a Rule , and Obedience to it ? Holy Life , and that which gives it , or makes it so ? What a Meeting here is of Ignorance , Malice and Lying ? Any thing to spoil the Quakers ; but God will break the Bow and Spear of their Enemies .

Again , From his Quaker's telling him , Thou takest up the Saints Words ; but if thou hast not the same Spirit , See p. 21. what are the Words to thee ; he dares to suggest , that our Opinion of the Light 's Sufficiency in every Man cannot be true ; And all the Reason he gives us for his strange Collusion , is this ; That those Words imply , that the Spirit or Light of God is not in all Men.

Now what is more evident , then first , That it is not our Answer ? 2. That it concerns not the Sufficiency , so much as the Universallity of it ? 3. By not having the Spirit , or Light , is not meant , that we believe that God has not given a Measure of his Good Spirit unto all to profit with , or that there be some , whom he never enlightened , but that they so have not the Spirit , as to walk by it , be benefitted by it , or come to enjoy it as their Teacher and Comforter ; and that some may be said , not to be Enlightened , who are not through Faith in , and Obedience to the Light , come to be advantaged and made Children of Light by it . Let this suffice at present to shew the Man's Ignorance of our Principles , or his great Unrighteousness to pervert them .

I shall now attend the next Point by him handled , and that is Christ's Person , and our Faith in him , which , he sayes , we deny , and indeed he does but say it .

CHAP. VI.

Of our Faith in Christ .

HIs next Cavil is at our Belief in Christ , and which is worse , he would be thought a Christian in doing so . The great Stress lies here , Tho. Hicks would have the World think , we Equivocate about our Faith in That Christ which after the Flesh appeared and dyed at Jerusalem . Dial. p. 43 , 44 , 45 , 46 , 47. Contin . pag. 40 , 41 , 43 , 44. The Reason of all this Clamour and Injustice on the part of our angry and restless Adversary is this ; if I wrong him let him shew me : The Quakers say , that Christ is in them ; Christ is God , is God Man in them ? Again , The Quakers say , that Christ is in them ; But since there is but One Christ , who was born of a Virgin , and that he suffered at Jerusalem , being there crucified , can that Christ be in Man ? The false Doctrine or Absurdity he would run us upon , is one of these two , Either that we deny Christ's Manhood , or that He is actually in our Bodies with that Body he appeared in at Jerusalem , which is Impossible , witness this one Passage , If God be Christ , as Penn saith ; or , If the Light within you be the Christ , as Naylor and Hubberthorn affirm , is it proper or safe to say , God was Slain , or the Light in you was Crucified ?

To which I answer , That as in other things , so in this , our Adversary has shewn his great Ignorance or Malice . For is it reasonable to infer from our Affirming in Scripture Language , Christ is in the Saints , that we deny him as to his Visible and Bodily Appearance in the World ; and that because he is God , therefore he was never Man ; or that the Word took not Flesh ; Is this to understand us right , or give the World a true measure of our Belief , who is it confesseth Christ to be every where , and if so , then in his People , see Cont. p. 34. Ah , God the Righteous Judge shall plead with thee in a Day that thou shalt not be able to escape his Terrible Recompence , if thou repentest not . Let it suffice to the sober Reader ( for of him I have little Hopes ) that we do believe that Christ , who is God over all , blessed for ever , did come of Abraham's Seed according to the Flesh , that the Body prepared of that Line was his Body , that what Sufferings befel it , were the Sufferings of Christ , just as the Body is called the Body of Christ : Yet this we do say , and that not in any Undervalue to the Body , or Bodily Sufferings of Christ , that the Divine Word , in whom was Life , and whose Life was the Light of Men ( who took that Flesh ) is eminently to be lookt upon , and that to believe and obey the Light of his Life , wherewith he has enlightened us , is both the best way to know the Sufferings of his Body , and to receive the Benefit of them .

In short , unless Christ be not God , and unless the Light be not Christ , I know no hurt I have done , to assert him to be God , nor any Reason our Adversary hath to infer , therefore I , or any of us , deny him to have taken Flesh , or that he suffered without the Gates of Jerusalem ; or that he is not as well Christ without us as within us .

Again I do affirm that by the same Reason the bodily Sufferings of the Word , whose Life was the Light of Men , are frequently attributed to the Word it self , as if the Word had immediately sustained them , and not the Body , the Light which shineth in the Consciences of Mankind , which is the very Life of the Word , or Word it self , is not unconcern'd in the bodily Sufferings , but both gives to believe them aright , and to receive Benefit by them , and that as the Sufferings of his own Body , by and through which his Glory , Grace and Truth , did shine forth , in the World : which are now revealed afresh in the Hearts of all who believe in him . Let our Adversaries deal so fairly with us , as to distinguish between Christ , and the Body of Christ , as before Abraham the Rock in the Wilderness , and the Appearance of Christ in the Flesh , and not infer from our denying that the whole Christ could die ; that Christ , that is , the Body of Christ suffered or died not ; And when we say , he who took Flesh has appeared to , and in our Hearts , that we exclude and deny his then Visible and Bodily Appearance , or that he is not now as well without us , as within us ; and we shall never doubt of a good Issue . But truly after the rate we have been used by him , the most Scriptural Assertions can never escape a being accounted False and Unwarrantable . For because we are with godly Fear Jealous , least the whole Christ should be thought to have been then crucified , when his Body was , which strikes at the Life of the Immortal and Divine Being , we are represented by this Perverter of our right Meaning , as Denyers of that Body , whilest he himself acknowledgeth that the meer Manhood was not the Christ , but the Word made Flesh , Emmanuel . Pag. 44. Dialogue .

2. Because we assert that true Light , with which every Man is enlightened , to be in it self the Christ of God , and Saviour of the World ; he infers that we deny the Outward Sufferings of Christ in his Bodily Appearance , and in short ▪ that we deny the True Christ , because he dyed and rose again , &c. which the Light never did , never considering that if he makes what dyed & rose again the entire Christ & Saviour , he excludes the Divinity or Godhead , which he confesseth to be Christ in conjunction with the Manhood , and which the Scriptures call strictly the Saviour , besides whom there is none ; and which J. Faldo himself pag. 85. part 2. acknowledges to be such . But if T. Hicks does allow , as indeed he doth , that Christ is God , as well as Man , there is nothing befalls us from his Inference , but what strikes himself equally ; for if the Light , with which Men are enlightened , be not Christ , because it cannot dye , then Christ cannot be Christ as God , because God cannot dye . Well! But T. Hicks tells us , that Christ as God is also Christ , and that it was Christ's Body only that dyed ; Therefore I conclude , that to own Christ to be that true Light , which enlighteneth all men , or that true Light to be Christ , is no Derogation from Christ or Vndervalue to his Bodily Sufferings .

3. And because that one of us spoak of a Two-fold Appearance of Christ in the Soul , first as a Seed of Light in Man , and next , as perfect Day , or in a full grown State of Glory , Therefore sayes he , a Personal Coming in any respect is denyed by you , Contin . pag. 45. which Conclusion is so horribly Unjust , that no Impartial Man needs an Answer to it . And let the Partial know , that we have not only confessed to his Personal Appearance , But T.H. has so much Faith for us . Dial. pag. 45. The Baseness and self-Contradiction of the Man is notorious enough as to this Point .

I shall proceed to the next Particular , and that is , If Christ signifie Anointed , and Christ be God , as Penn saith , I would query ( saith our Adversary ) whether God himself was anointed ? Contin . pag. 47.

But though this might have seemd something from a Socinian hand , yet from T. Hicks , it gives us no Difficulty at all ; for since he acknowledgeth Christ to be as well God as Man , and that Christ was not anointed by halfes , but intirely , as the Word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Christ , from 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to Anoint , doth imply , I would fain be informed ( Argumentum ad hominem ) Who anointed the Godhead , without which T. Hicks affirms again and again , Christ was not Christ , because ( says he ) Christ is God manifest in the Flesh . Dialog. pag. 44. And since he is for Querying , let me ask him , who is understood in that Passage , God even thy God hath anointed thee with the Oyle of Gladness , & c ? Was that said of Christ or no ? If not , say so ; If it was , as most , or all believe , then , whether the Divine Nature of Christ was unconcern'd in that Anointing ? And who it was that anointed him is evident from the place ? If T. Hicks will limit God to the manner of his Manifestations and Operations respecting us , that is , that he is no otherwise to , & in himself , then what he appeares to us to be ; what will he make of that place , To us a Child is born , to us a Son is given ; Isa. 6.9 . he shall be called Wonderful Counseller , the mighty God , the everlasting Father , the Prince of Peace ? &c. Shall God's Condescensions to Man's weak and depraved state by personating , and representing things to his capacity , be an Argument that he is no otherwise in himself ? Are we confused because we use his Words ? or shall Man rise up against God's way of uttering forth himself suitable to the shortness of his Understanding ! This kind of Cavil might better become a Carnal Pharisee , or Scoffing Heathen then a Man pretending to Christianity . Base Man that he is , who rewards the Almighty so ill for his Merciful Condescensions ! But to the Blind all things are dark .

But he thinks that he has caught me irrecoverably : hear his Dialogue . Cont. p. 48. Chr. Was not Christ God's Gift ? Quak. Yea he was so . Chr. To what end ? Quak. His Doctrine , Life , Miracles , Death and Sufferings to God is the Gift and Expression of God's Eternal Love for the Salvation of Men. Penn's Sandy Found . Pag. 19. Chr. Thou hast affirmed that God is Christ : If so , Did God die and suffer to God ?

To which I answer , that T. Hicks , as in other places , so here is basely Unjust , and if he accounts me his Adversary or an Opposer of his Principles , though I never had to do with him in particular , nor any of that People in general ; It behov'd him to be honest , and give me my due ; Instead of which he leaves out some Words , and horribly perverts the rest . For first I did in that Book acknowledge and confess to Christ's Bodily Appearance , and that he was born of the Virgin Mary after the Flesh , and that largely and plainly p. 36. which he wholy omitts to mention . Secondly , I do not remember that I so exprest my self , that God was Christ , but whether I did or no , to insinuate a Denyal of his Manifestation in Flesh is most perversly wicked and ungodly , as well as that it plainly shews , notwithstanding his feigned Confession to Christ's Divinity , that in truth he owns him not to be God , or he has very ill exprest himself when he sayes thou affirmest God is Christ ( or Christ is God ) for it implies he does not ; else what means his following words , did God himself dye and suffer to God ? he thus queries to shew the Absurdity of believing God to be Christ ( or Christ to be God ) and tells us that he believes what dyed was the Intire Christ . Certainly , he is either rank Socinian in the Point ( which I mention not in Disgrace , unless it be to that Party that so impious a Person is of it ) or he has not well given us his Mind . But this proves what elsewhere I observe of him , that from our Asserting Christ to be God , or God Christ , Tho. Hicks is ignorant or malitious enough to infer , that we deny that ever he took Flesh ; whence he would fasten such like Absurdities upon us , you say Christ dyed , Christ you say is God , did then God dye ? &c.

But if he has represented us to deny the Bodily Appearance , why did he not also make us to deny his Death and Sufferings too , and then there had been no room for that preposterous Conclusion ; But to insinuate a Belief of our Denyal of Christs's coming in the Flesh , and not of his Death , that he might bring us upon this Pinch of Contradiction , to wit , that God dyed , and not the Body in which he was manifested , is such an invented piece of Dishonesty as deserves nothing else then the Abhorrence of all Impartial Persons ; In short , we say , that God manifested in Flesh was the true Christ that then appeared , that the Flesh , and not God dyed , and that the whole of the Appearance , whether in Life or Death , was for Man's Salvation . And if Tho. Hicks is not herewith contented , we cannot help it , but hope others are not so Unreasonable .

But he proceeds thus ; Give me leave to ask you , directing himself to his foresaid Quaker , Contin . P. 49. Whether one great End wherefore Christ was given and came into the World was not to seek and to Save such that were lost . Quak. Yea , he came to seek and save the lost .

Christ . But who , or what is this that was lost .

He wickedly and with an Aggravation , like the Enmity of his Spirit , thus makes G. Keith to answer , That which is lost is still in Man , That , Christ came to seek and save , and all his Ministers preached People to this , the lost in Man , a lost God , a lost Christ , &c. To which sayes T.H. Blush O Heavens , and be Astonished O Earth ! Was ever such a thing as this heard of before , that Jesus Christ came to seek and save a lost God , a lost Christ ? &c. Was ever God and Christ in a Lost Condition ? But the Heavens may Blush , and the Earth be Astonished indeed at such sordid and base Dealing . G. Keith means , that Christ came to seek and to save , by turning People to enquire after a lost God and a lost Christ , the Groat within , the Pearl in the Field . &c. that is , to God's Light in them , by which God and Christ are revealed to the Soul ; Rom. 1. For whatever may be known of God is manifest within , which they Rebelling against , had lost the Knowledge of the only true God , and Jesus Christ : And this unrighteous Person turns it that G. Keith meant , that Christ came to seek and to save a lost God , and lost Christ ; What Sence can there be in so horrible a Perversion , as well as that there is no colour for it , who endeavours to insinuate that Christ came to save God and Christ , not the Soul by turning it to seek after God and Christ ; and to represent God and Christ's Condition Lost and Perilous , instead of theirs , who had or have lost God and Christ ? In short , Lost as taken by T.H. is meant of Man's lost Condition , and as there used by G. Keith , is understood of God and Christ , whom Man had and hath lost the Knowledge of , and Fellowship with . But such sinister Practices savour of the height of Dishonesty ; The Inventer of BAXTER BAPTIZED IN BLOOD BY ANABAPTISTS is nothing to this horrible kind of Perversion ; And I doubt not , but T. Hick's Recompence will be more terrible from the hand of a Just God , irritated by such Irreligious Proceedings . However , I will return upon T. Hicks what more concerns him then he is aware of : If Christ came to seek and to Save that which was Lost , then because the whole World was lost , he came to seek and to save the whole World ; And if so , then , Reprobates because Lost , or else there can be no such thing , as Eternal Reprobation , or Men from Eternity unalterably decreed to Eternal Destruction ; How much more this confounds his own partial Opinion of Predestination then any thing he has said can the Quakers Principles , let the Sober minded judge .

CHAP. VII .

Of the Seed , and Redemption of the Seed .

HIs next Stumble , and gross Perversion of our Words , is concerning the Seed , from a passage or two taken out of the Books of J.N. and G.F. That the Seed is Christ , that the Seed wants Redemption , as being laden by Sinners as a Cart with Sheaves , &c. He thus argues ; If then Redemption be of the Seed , and this Seed be Christ , either there must be more Christs then one , Dialog. pag. 47.48 . or else Christ came to redeem himself . Again , Christ-without you esteem to be but a Creature ; but the Seed-within you say is God . Tell me seriously whether a Creature can redeem the Creator . Can you pretend to be guided by an Infallible Spirit , and yet be guilty of such gibberish and folly as this ?

To which , before I make my Answer , I think fit to insert that which he gives in the Name of the Quakers .

Here thou shewest thy dark Mind , and that thou art still in thy Imagination , understanding neither the Redemption nor the Seed ; which however feign'd by himself against himself , is so great a Truth , that there is scarcely one Passage in his Dialogue more allowable .

But to his Argument and Question . We do assert the Redemption of the Seed for the Light and Life which has been as sown in the Heart of Mankind , has been loaded with Sin , pressed down with Iniquity , grieved and almost quenched through Disobedience , which words are not properly , but metaphorically to be taken , as used by the holy Pen-Men , whereby to make things the more plain and easie to common capacities . It is said in Scripture , Out of Egypt have I called my Son , a Place of Bondage and grievous Weights , Burdens and Oppressions , from all which the Seed was to be redeemed ; and Christ came , or God was manifested in the Flesh , that the Seed of Light , Truth and Righteousness might break through and arise over all Corruption , by which it had been grieved and pressed down . And it is no Contradiction to say , That God did rid himfelf of the Enemies that opprest his own Righteous Life , or that he brought Salvation to himself ; for the Scriptures frequently speak on that wise , especially in those two notable Passages of Isaiah , Isa. 59.16 . And he saw that there was no Man , and wondered that there was no Intercessor , therefore his Arm brought Salvation to him , and this Righteousness it sustained him . Again , The Year of my Redeemed is come ; Isa. 63.4 , 4. and I looked , and there was none to help ; and I wondred that there was none to uphold ; therefore Mine own Arm brought Salvation unto Me , and My Fury it upheld me . Whence it is no wayes absurd that we affirm , that the End of God's Manifesting himself in the Flesh was for the Redemption or Deliverance of his Holy Life that was in Man but as a small Seed , even the smallest of Seeds , that had been long vexed , grieved , bruised and pressed down by Sin and Iniquity ; For the End of that Appearance was , that Sin might be destroyed , and that Christ , who had been as a Lamb slain from the Foundation of the World , might be exalted in the Hearts of Men and Women , and his , and their Foes , made his and their Footstool : For the Work is Inward , we do aver in the Name of the Lord ; for where the Devil hath Reigned and had Dominion to wit , in Man , there be must be defeated , and subdued ; and Christ alone , by whom that is brought to pass , ought and must have the Power and the Kingdom forever . And if this be the Folly and Gibberish the Quakers must be charged with from this Anabaptist Preacher , we are content to use it , as well as patient to bear his insolent Scoff ; only let all take notice , that we understand not by the Seed's Redemption , its being redeemed from the Pollution , but the Weight of Sin and Iniquity ; for it was and is pure forever .

Now as to our Calling Christ-without a Creature , I must tell him , 't is not our Language ; but if he means by it the Body born of the Virgin , I suppose T. Hicks is far from believing that to be the Creator , though his manner of speaking shews a dislike of us , that we don't , because he sayes that we esteem the Christ without , or the Outward and Visible Part of Christ but a Creature , as if he believed it to be the Creator . However manifest it is he believes , that the Redemption wrought , is not by that God , who in those foregoing Passages speaks so expresly to that purpose , and who in time manifested himself in the Flesh , but the Flesh only , by and through which he was so manifested .

CHAP. VIII .

Of the Soul of Man .

HIs next Abuse of us that I shall take notice of , is this , That G. Fox and others hold the Soul to be a part of God , of God's Being , Dialog. p. 1. and that it is without Beginning ; All which ( sayes he ) is as much as to say , the Soul is God . SO THAT GOD SETS UP A LIGHT IN HIMSELF , WHICH HE HIMSELF IS TO OBEY , AND IN SO DOING GOD SHALL BE SAVED .

Behold your Anabaptist Preacher ! A Man of Truth , Tender Conscience , of the first Form of Christians , a Contender for the Faith once delivered to the Saints , and what else he falsly pretends , and in vain would have us think him to be . What so Base ? What so Irreligious as this Perversion ? Men nor Devils could never study more our Wrong , then this pretended Christian has done . If this be his Christianity , The God of Abraham , Isaac and Jacob preserve my Soul from ever coming within the Borders of such Religion ; but Christianity is absurd by such Traducers , and God's Spirit is grieved by such Injustice . I would not use the worst of Men , no not Devils themselves , at that unequal Rate he deals with us , who both mis-cites his Words , and abuses the true Meaning of what is truly cited . G. Fox sayes thus , God breathed into Man the Breath of Life , and he became a Living Soul , and is not this of God , of his Being ? &c. and is not this that comes out from God , part of God , & from God ? Where nothing can well be clearer than that G. F intends that Divine Life , Power and Virtue by which Adam in Soul & Body came to live to God . Can T.H. say after all this , that he cited G F. right , and ask the Quaker in his Dialogue , Darest thou say I have not quoted him truly ? Hardened Man !

Breathed that is Inspired : Breathed being the English Word , Inspired borrowed from the Latine Inspirare ; the Greek has it 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , as Joh. 20.22 hath breathed into , enlivened , inspired , quickened ; the Hebrew 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and he breathed or blowed : on which R. Nachmanni and the Author Hiskuni in P. Fagins's Comment on the Place , speak thus , That God inspired Man with something of his own Substance ; that he contributed something to him ▪ and bestowed something of his own Divinity upon him , and that God did inspire Man with the Holy Ghost ; and that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is a proper Word for it . Which is as much as can be collected or justly concluded from what G. Fox hath said concerning Man . But this Ungodly Person would infer from our Asserting that the Breath God breathed into Adam's Soul , whereby it lived to God , was of God's own Divine Life , that the Soul of Man , as a meer Creature , created Capacity , is of God's own Being and Substance ; and when he his done , with a Taunt becoming none but a Prophane Person , tells us , that then God sets up a Light in himself , which being obeyed by him , he comes to be saved ; as 〈◊〉 the Soul needed either a Light or Saviour , in case it were God ; or , that God could obey any thing , or needed Salvation . O monstrous Blasphemy against God , and horrid Injustice to us ! For as God can obey none , nor need Salvation , neither in sense can we be thought so to believe of the Soul , as by him represented ; Read G. Fox 's Gr. Myst . p. 91. since our pleading for a Saving Light , the necessity of Obedience to it , the Eternal Reward of Life or Death , Happiness or Misery , as it is conformed to , or rebelled against , prove our Faith in that Matter to be quite another thing . If this be your Champion , I dare warrant his own Baseness shall be his own Overthrow ; we need no more against him , then his own Ignorance , Malice , Lyes , Forgeries and Slanders to his utter Confutation in the Minds of all Impartial Persons .

CHAP. IX .

Of Justification , and something of Satisfaction .

THe Doctrine of Justification is the next Particular that I am to take notice of . He begins with the Quaker thus , Pray what is your Opinion of Justification by that Righteousness of Christ which He in his own Person fulfilled for us WHOLELY WITHOVT VS . Quak. Contin . P. 50. Justification by the Righteousness which Christ fulfills for us in his own Person WHOLELY WITHOUT US , we boldly affirm it to be a Doctrine of Devils , and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption , which doth now deluge the World , Will . Penn Apol. p. 148.

This Apology cited was written against a Malicious Priest in Ireland , who in a Book by him published not long afore , laid it down as Unscriptural , and a very heinous Thing in us to deny Justification ( without any Distinction exprest ) by the Righteousness which Christ wrought in his own Person WHOLELY WITHOUT * * If wholely without us , then none of it within us . US . To whom I made the Answer given by T. Hicks ; And if therein I have crost the express Testimony of the Scriptures , It was such a Justification , as respected being made just by the Destruction of Sin inherent by the Spirit & Power of Christ Jesus , and not being accounted Just from the Guilt , and former Sins freely Remitted in his Blood , as an Offering for Sin once for all to every one that truly repents . let any shew me ; But if I have only thwarted a most Sin-pleasing ( and therefore Dangerous ) Notion ; let such as hold it look to that : He has not offered me one plain Scripture , nor the Shadow of a Reason , why this Passage ought to be reputed unsound or condemnable . If any Living will produce me but one Passage out of Scripture , that tells of a Justification by such a Righteousness as is WHOLELY WITHOUT US , I shall fall under its Authority ; but if we only deny Men's corrupt Conceits and Sin-pleasing Glosses ▪ and they offer us nothing to our Confutation , or better Information , we shall not think bare Quotations of our Books to be sufficient Answers . But to the end all may understand the Reason of my so Answering that Priest , take those short Reasons then rendered , with any one of which I am to suppose T. Hicks desired not to meddle .

First , No Man can be Justified without Faith ( sayes Jenner . ) No Man hath Faith without Works ( any more then a Body can live without a Spirit ) sayes James . Apol●g . p. 148.

Therefore the Works of Righteousness , by the Spirit of Jesus Christ , are necessary to Justification .

Second , If Men may be justified , whilst Impure ; then God quits the Guilty , contrary to the Scripture ; which cannot be , I mean while in a Rebellious State .

Third , Death came by Actual Sin , not Imputative , in his sense ; therefore Justification unto Life comes by actual Righteousness , & not Imputative .

Fourth , This speaketh Peace to the Wicked , whilst Wicked ; but there is no Peace to the Wicked , saith my God .

Fifth , Men are Dead and Alive at the same time , saith this Doctrine ▪ for they may be dead in Sin , and yet alive in another's Righteousness , not Inherent , and consequently , Men may be damned actually , and saved imputatively .

Sixth , But since Men are to reap what they sow ; and that every one shall be rewarded according to his Works ; and that none are Justified but the Children of God ; and that none are Children but who are led by the Spirit of God ; and that none are so led , Gal. 6. Rev. 22. Rom. 8. but those that bring forth Fruits thereof , which is Holiness ; 'T is not the Oyle in anothers Lamp , but in our own only , which will serve our turns ; I mean , the Rejoycing must be in our selves , and not in another : yet to Christ's holy Power alone do we ascribe it , who works all our Works in us .

All which was not only not answered , but not cited by him .

He brings me in again thus ; Justification is not from the Imputation of another's Righteousness ; P. 51. Contin . but from the actual Performing and Keeping God's Righteous Statutes , Sand. Found . p. 25. To which , after this base and disingenuous Citation , he returns me this only Answer ; Is it not written , Rom. 5.19 . By the Obedience of one many are made Righteous ? But before I explain the Truth of that Scripture , be pleased to hear my Argument , as it is laid down in my Book , and then give thy Judgment , Reader , upon the Man .

The Son shall not bear the Iniquity of his Father ; The Righteousness of the Righteous shall be upon him , and the Wickedness of the Wicked shall be upon him . When a Righteous Man turneth away from his Righteousness , Ezek. 18.20 , 26 , 27 , 28. for his Iniquity that he has done shall he dye ; Again ; When the Wicked Man turneth away from his Wickedness , and doth that which is Lawful and Right , he shall save his Soul alive ; yet saith the House of Israel , The Wayes of the Lord are not Equal . Are not my Wayes Equal ? If this was once Equal , it s so still ; for God is Unchangeable ; And therefore I shall draw this Argument , That the Condemnation or Justification of Persons is not from the Imputation of another's * * As wholely without us . Righteousness ; but the actual Performance , or not keeping of Gods righteous Statutes or Commandments ; otherwise God should forget to be Equal : It is to be understood of a Righteousness Wrought by Christ's Power within , when I speak of being justified ; that is , made just by it . Therefore how wickedly Unequal are those , who not from Scripture Evidences , but their dark Conjectures , & Interpretations of obscure Passages , would frame a Doctrine , so manifestly inconsistent with God's most pure and equal Nature ; making him to condemn the Righteous to Death ; and justifie the Wicked to Life , from the Imputation of another's Righteousness . — A most Unequal Way indeed .

Where observe that the Answer he makes me give in his Dialogue , is delivered by me with an If it be so , fetcht expresly from the Text it self : so that the Scripture , and not W. Penn is most struck at by him . However it be , he has offered us no Opposition yet , but that Passage out of the Romans , which will not be found inconsistent with Ezekiel's Testimony , on which my Argument was grounded .

The whole Verse was thus , For as by one Man's Disobedience many were made Sinners , Rom. 5.19 . so by the Obedience of one shall many be made Righteous ; which if the whole Chapter be well considered ▪ is no more then this ; that as Adam , representative of Mankind ( from whence he had that Name ) was he by whom Sin entred into the whole World ; So Christ was He , by whose comeing , and Obedience Righteousness had an entrance to the Justification of many . In short , the Work Christ had to do was two-fold . 1 To remit , forgive , or justify from the Imputation of Sin past , all such as truely repented , believed and obeyed him . And 2ly , by his Power and Spirit operating in the Hearts of such to destroy and remove the very Ground and Nature of Sin , whereby to make an End of Sin , and finish Transgression present and to come ; that is , the first removes the Guilt , the second the very Cause of It. Now I grant that his Obedience unto Death was in order to make Men Righteous , because it was in the Nature of a Sacrifice by which God testified unto the World his Desire of Reconciliation through the Remission of the Sins that are past , which was held forth , and came , and was confirmed by that Obedience , even to the Death of the Cross ; In which Sence the Just sufferd for the Vnjust : Rom. 2 ▪ 3 , 4 , 5. Chap. and whilst we were Sinners Christ dyed ; He was made Sin , that is , to take away Sin for us ( an Hebraism ) and he justifieth the Vngodly , that is , remitteth the Vngodly upon Repentance , and bore our Iniquities , 2. Cor. 5.19 . or bore away our Iniquities , that is , by this Offering for Sin , was Remission for Sins past declared and confirmed unto all , as an Vniversal Propitiation ; For God was in all these Sufferings shewing forth his Love and reconciling the World unto himself , not imputing their Trespasses unto them . But still Repentance was that which brought home the general Pardon promulgated , in and by that holy Offering up of his Body once for all unto every particular Soul . Thus by the Obedience of that one Man , even to the Death of the Cross , many come to be made Righteous , that is , justified from many Offences , see Rom. 5.6 , 7 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. But if this first part of Justification , which is Remission of Sin , be not obtainable by any , however general it be in Christ , without Repentance from dead Works , which implyes Faith , Contrition and Amendment of Life ; How miserably is T. Hicks out , who brings this very Scripture we are upon , to prove that we are compleatly justified ( which takes in both Forgiveness of Sin past , and a being Inwardly made Just through the casting out of Sin by the just and holy Power and Spirit of God operating in the Heart and Conscience ) by Christ's Righteousness WHOLELY WITHOUT US .

I grant it that Forgiveness of Sin is God's free Love , meer Grace and rich Mercy , declared in and by Christ Jesus to the World , and that this Grace abounded unto all ; for He was a Propitiation , not only for the Sins of those that believe , but of the Whole World ; yet the whole Benefit thereof should never redound unto any , whilst alienated from God by wicked Works .

Peter preached another Doctrine : For though Christ dyed for the Vngodly , yet they were not thereby Justified , that is , pardon'd for Sin past , while Unrepentant . Peter sayes , Repent , and then they should receive Remission of Sins . Act 3.38 . Now I would fain know how this Repentance is wrought , by which , as a Condition , any come to have an Interest in that great Pardon held out to the whole World ; Is the Spirit of Christ unconcern'd in it ? Can we think one Good Thought of our selve● ? Are we not altogether degenerated Plants of a Strange Vine ? by Nature Children of Wrath ? &c. Is not this frequently confest by the Professors of Religion in our times , and the most affected piece of their Righteousness too ? Well then ! If we cannot repent of our selves , and that Repentance is a Condition , & that it is in the Soul , and that it cannot be there without the Spirit of Christ work it , tell me plainly if something is not to be done within , and therefore of the Nature of Inward Righteousness , before any Benefit be procured , deriv'd or receiv'd from Christ's Death and Sufferings to any particular Person . This is close to our Point ; for therefore is it that we affirm , that such as go on to transgress against the Law of the Spirit of Life , and so disobey the Light , and grieve the Holy Spirit by wicked Works , are not in that State Justified ; I mean now , that they are not so much as forgiven , and least of all , that they should be look'd upon as compleatly justified , that is , by Qualification and Participation of the Divine Nature , truly and inwardly made Just ; since it would be to say , that by the Obedience of one , many shall be made Righteous , who notwithstanding remain Disobedient and Rebellious to God's Grace which has appeared unto them . We do say again , that such a Doctrine , so speaking Peace to a State of Sin and Death , and shutting out an Inward Work many wayes necessary to the Forgiveness of Sin past , or dayly Acceptante with God , IS NO LESS THEN THE DOCTRINE OF DEVILS , and the worst they have to propagate , to the Dishonour of God , and the Eternal State of People Souls . In short , here lyes the gross Mistake of our Adversaries : They make the Sufferings of Christ which peculiarly relate to the first part of Justification , Remission of Sins past , to be that which has answered , not only for Sins past , but present and to come , so as to acquit them from all Inward Work as necessary to Justification compleatly taken , contrary to express Scripture . Rom. 5.25 . and the great End of Christ's Spiritual Manifestation in his People . There might be much more said in this matter , but because he thinks , I have not made a little for him in my Book truly entituled The Sandy Foundation Shaken , and that I am to be short , I shall proceed to dispatch what remaines , as God shall enable me .

To that Answer he gave out of the Romans by the Obedience of one , &c. ) already with other Scriptures explained and vindicated from his Abuse of them , he makes me thus to answer him .

Quak. It is a great Abomination to say , God shall condemn and punish his Innocent Son , that he having satisfied for our sins , we might be justified by the Imputation of his perfect Righteousness . O why should this horrible thing be contented for by Christians ? Penn. ibid. p. 25.30 .

To which he returns . Chr. How now Mr. Penn , Is this the Doctrine of Christ's Sufferings for Sinners , to make Satisfaction to Divine Justice an horrible thing , and an Abomination to you ? Do you consider what you say ? And thus brings me in answering him . Qu. This I do say , that the Consequences of such a Doctrine are both Irreligious & Irrational . Penn. ibid. P. 16. Now that he has dealt Blasphem ously with God , and Injuriously with me , as well as that he has given me no account of his thoughts upon the Errour he makes me guilty of , in case I held it , besides that impertinent Question , plainly appears .

First he has dealt Blasphemously with God in calling Christ's Suffering , God's condemning and punishing his Innocent Son , &c. which his Censure of my so Phrasing their Opinion , manifestly implyes . Now I appeal to all Impartial People , which of us two is most to be blamed , I that confess to Christ's Sufferings as the Effect of Gods's Love ; thereby not to satisfie himself , as a Revenger , or as he could not forgive ( for none of that is in the Verse at all ) which yet is in their Sordid Opinion ; but as a God full of Mercy , Forgiveness and Pardon to all true Penitents , to declare to the World his free Remission of Sins , and that he would not impute their Iniquities unto them , if they would repent , believe & obey ; or T. Hicks , who holds that God condemn'd and punish'd his Innocent Son for other Folkes Sins , that he might be satisfied : for pardon he neither could , nor would : And which is most absurd ; Christ being this same God , he at once makes him the Party satisfying , & the Party satisfied , which is absurd and impossible ; besides 't is such a Satisfaction as hath paid all Debts , past present & to come , whereby all Inward Righteousness , though of Christ's Working , is not necessary to Justification in any Kind .

Secondly , He has dealt Injuriously with me , and that in two Respects , 1. In not stating the Doctrine truly , which I opposed , and my Words at length , that they might speak for themselves ( But in that case , perhaps he thought he should have been oblieged to answer them , a thing he every where seems afraid of , his Trade ●s Cavi●●●g , ) And 2l● , In that he brings this Passage which oppos●d suc● a Satisfaction , as is said to have paid for Sins p●st , present , and to come , to answer a Scripture which concerns Justification , and that part of it too , which relates to Remission of Sins ; Insinuating , that I make Men's own Works sufficient to Justification in the first sense , I mean , Remission , & in the second sense , I mean daily Acceptance upon being made Just ; and lastly , that I overturn all the Righteousness , Death and Sufferings of Christ ; whilst in Truth and Sincerity of Soul , 1. by Justification , not by another's Righteousness WHOLELY WITHOUT , I only meant , That it was Christ's Righteousness wrought in us , and not our own , which made Inwardly Just , and which gave daily Acceptance , and brought into the heavenly Fellowship with the Father and with the Son ; the Justification then intended by me . 2 ly , Since God has made his Truth known to me , I have ever understood Christ's being offered up to signifie , the carrying away of Sin , the bearing away of Iniquity , that by which God declared Remission and Forgiveness of Sins past to all that repented . And this Justification , called Rom. 4. ver. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , God 's not Imputing Sin , I have ever owned to be the Free Unmerited Love of God to the World ; And was not that Justification by me spoken of in the Passage cited ? 3 ly , That which I opposed was so rigid a Satisfaction , as made it absolutely unavoidable or necessary in God to require a Satisfaction , thereby robbing him of the Power of his free Mercy and Loving-kindness to remit and pass by , and that Christ did not answer or pay , by the Act of his Suffering , for Sins past , present and to come ; but as he declared Remission by his Blood for the Sins past of the whole World , the beginning of his Work ; so that he doth by his Power and Spirit , subdue , destroy and cast out Sin out of the Hearts of all who believe in him , whereby their Consciences come to be made pure , they sanctified throughout in Body , Soul and Spirit , which necessitates to Good Life , and speaks no Peace to the Wicked in their Wickedness , nor yet to the sloathful , formal and carnal Professor of Religion . Therefore such rage , and imagine a vain thing against us .

That the Consequences of the common Notion of both Satisfaction and Justification are Irreligious and Irrational , though what has been said might suffice with Sober and Impartial Readers ; yet I may anon have further Occasion to prove it . In the mean time , Contin . P. 52. He tells the World , that William Penn , in Answer to this Question , How did Christ fulfil the Law for Sinners ? says , That Christ fulfilled the Law ONLY as our Pattern or Example , S.F. p. 26. In which he has done exactly like himself ; For if he can find the Word ONLY there , or such an Answer to such a Question , or the Matter strictly contained in that Question , he has not wronged me ; but sure I am there is no such Question , and as sure , that the Fulfilling of the Law , was not the Subject treated on , and very certain , that the Word Only was not there ; therefore a Forger . That which I said , with the Scripture on which it was grounded , Sand. Found . Shaken . p. 26. follows : If ye keep my Commandments ye shall abide in my Love , even as I have kept my Father's Commandments and abide in his Love .

[ From whence this Argument doth naturally arise ; If none are truly Justified that abide not in Christ's Love , and that none abide in his Love that keep not his Commandments ; then consequently none are justified but such as keep his Commandments . Besides here is the most palpable Opposition to an Imputative Righteousness that may be ; For Christ is so far from telling them of such a Way of being Justified , as that he info●m●th them , the Reason why he abode in his Father's Love , was his Obedience ; and is so far from telling them of their being Justified , whilst not abiding in his Love , by Virtue of his Obedience imputed unto them , that unless they keep his Commands , and obey for themselves , they shall be so remote from an Acceptance , as wholely to be cast out ; in all which Christ is but our Example ] Now that this concerned not the Whole Law Christ came to fulfil ; The whole * * He was Our Example in Holiness , though not in his Ending Types & Shadows . Law he fulfilled , the place of Scripture quoted , the Nature and Matter of the Argument clearly proves . Next , If Christ had been other then our Example in that case , then he should have fulfilled his own Commandments in our stead , who from Obeying his Father's , taught us , our Duty was to obey His. And supposing that he could have kept his own Commandments , and obey'd himself for us , or in our stead , it would have followed , ( 1. ) That we needed not to have kept them , unless they were to be observed twice over . And that ( 2ly , ) in not keeping of them , we had been notwithstanding justified from his alone Fulfilling of them ; unless his Answering them had been Insufficient . The first of which , if I understand any thing , opens a Door to all Licentiousness ( however Upright some may be in their Intentions to the contrary ) And the last strikes dead their own Opinion of the Sufficiency of Christ's Personal Obedience , to perfo●m all needful on our Account ; Contin . p. 52. From hence he undertakes to charge me with the Merit of Works . My words at length are these , which he thought good to conceal .

Was not Abraham justified by Works when he offered Isaac ? Sand. Found . Shaken , p 30. and by Works was Faith made perfect ; and the Scripture was fulfilled , which saith , Abraham believed God , and it was imputed to him for Righteousness . By which we must not conc●ive , as do the dark Imputarians of this Age , that Abraham ' s Offering Personally was not a Justifying Righteousness , but that God was pleased to account it so ; since God never accounts a thing that which it is not ; nor was there any Imputation of another's Righteousness to Abraham ; but on the contrary , his Personal Obedience was the * * God's Love is not excluded , nor his Power that so worked in Abraham's Heart . Ground of that just Imputation ; & therefore that any should be justified from the Imputation of another's Righteousness , not inherent , or actually possessed by them , is both Ridiculous and Dangerous . — Ridiculous , since it is to say , A Man is Rich to the value of a Thousand Pounds , whilst he is not really or personally worth a Groat , from the Imputation of another , who has it all in his Poss●ssion : Dangerous , because it begets a confident Pe●swasion in many People of their being Justified , ● whilst in Captivity to those Lusts , whose Reward is Condemnation ; whence came that usual Saying amongst many Professors of Religion , That God looks not on them as they are in * * That is , within them as to Qualification . Themselves , but as they are in Christ ; not considering , that none can be in Christ , who are not New Creatures , which those cannot be reputed , who have not disrobed themselves of their old Garments , but are still immantled with the Corruptions of the Old Man .

In all which I see nothing Unsober or Unsound . But he thinks he has caught me fast in my Caveat against Popery , Ibid. p. 52.53 . where in distinguishing betwixt Grace and Merit , I say , Grace is a Free Gift requiring nothing ; and now ask , sayes he , was not Abraham Justified by Works ? and that Good Works may be said to procure , deserve or obtain , Apol. 198. Is this writ like an Infallible Dictator ? Thus far T.H.

There is an old Proverb , That some love the Treason , but hate the Traitor . No Man that writes , rants it more imperiously then Tho. Hicks . It is hard to say , whether his Dishonesty or his Impudence be the greater . I think , I never used Tho. Hicks so ill , or any of his Way , as to deserve so many Scoffing Taunts , Base Detractions , and Down-right Scurrilities from his hand ; But let that pass . To the Point . Hear what I have said in the Caveat . p. 12.

Grace and Merit , as stated by Calvinists and Papists , are taken for Faith without Works ; and Works without Faith ; like the two Poles . Doctrines the most opposite ; Now Rewardableness is neither , but something in the middle , and indeed the most true ; for Grace is a Free Gift , requiring nothing : Merit is a Work proportionable to the Wages : Rewardableness , is a Work without which God will not bestow his Favour , and yet not the Meritorious Cause ; for that there is no Proportion betwixt the Work that is finite , and temporary , and the Reward which is infinite and eternal ; in which sense both the Creature obeyes the Commands of God , and does not Merit , but Obtain only ; and God rewards the Creature , and yet so , as that he freely gives too .

Now what Contradiction is there in all this ? I plainly distinguish the Word Merit in the strictest Acceptation of it , from that which is truly Scriptural , respecting us at least . That I did not mention Merit in my Sandy Foundation Shaken , the Book proves . Is there no Difference between obtaining the Justifying Presence of God by the Fruits of the Spirit in our Heart and Lives , and strictly meriting his Acceptance of us by Works , and those of our own making too , Dialog. p. 38. Contin . p. 53. as what T.H. doth wickedl● suggest ? I say , Abraham was justified in offering up his Son , because he had been condemned if he had disobeyed . But sayes T. Hicks , He was Justified before . And why was not his whole Life mention'd to his Justification ? But I must tell T.H. that as among Men the Will is taken for the Deed , so the Lord finding Abraham right in his Heart , that he believed , and would obey ; he was as much justified therein , as if he had actually done it . We have cause to believe T. Hicks never knew what the Consequence of that working Faith , and offering up an Isaac to God is . Nor was it needful to recite the whole of his Life : Measures are frequently taken by some eminent Tryal . If he was accepted in that , Obedience being the Condition , where that was before , he was before accepted no doubt . But sayes he , see the Caveat , p. 12. and Apol. p. 198. How do they agree ? Truly very well : For Grace is Free , requiring nothing . How ? Nothing at all ? By no means . How then is it free ? Grace is free , because it was the good Pleasure of God both to give Remission of Sins , and Eternal Life to as many as should Repent , Believe and Obey to the End , and thereby come to be conformed to the Image of his Son . But may T. Hicks say ; Is Repenting nothing ? Believing nothing ? Obeying nothing ? No , T.H. not one jot of Merit in all that ; It is the great Grace of God , to give us Eternal Life upon so small Conditions . They obtain it ; but that is God's good Pleasure , and no Purchase , therefore Grace still ; All that is our Duty ; the Reward is Free ; God giveth it , but chuses a Way by which to do it . If T.H. will understand Grace , as my Caveat condemns it , I cannot help that ; sure I am , I never writ such Doctrine as my Faith , and therefore no Contradiction to my self , whatever it may be to him . But sayes he , Your Apology speaks that good Works may be said to procure , deserve , or obtain , &c.

My Apology as my self , and other Books , are not Apology enough for me and my Friends against such Envious Perverters as T.H. though I doubt not but they may be effectually such with more moderate Persons ; thus it speaks ,

The Word Merit , so much snarled at , allows a two-fold Signification ; the First , a Proportion or Equali●y betwixt the Work and Wages , which is the strictest sense , and that which he ( S. Fisher ) least of all intended ; The Second , something that may be said to procure , AND IN SOME SENSE to deserve or obtain , and so good Works do ; since without them there is no Acceptance with God , nor Title to Eternal Life .

Where it is observable , how basely he has left out , both my absolute Denyal of the strict Sense of the Word MERIT , and those qualifying and distinguishing Words , which come after Procure and before Deserve , namely , AND IN SOME SENSE , to deserve or obtain , with the last Clause . Certain it is , that whatever sense I had T. Hicks took me in the worst he could invent , yea in that very sense , which all along I have most particularly refused and condemned ; A Baseness , and piece of Forgery , unworthy of any Man pretending to Good Conscience !

But he proceeds still , & much after the same manner ; he would have People believe , That we assert the Ground of our Rejoycing and Acceptance to be not in , Contin . p. 53. and from the Righteousness of Christ imputed to us by Faith ( where observe , that WHOLELY WITHOUT US , is omitted , to render us Denyers of Christ's Righteousness in any sense ) but only in a Righteousness inherent in us , and done by us ; Which great Untruth he gives the Lye to , in his own Book . But because he pretends to fetch this out of my S.F. Shaken . p 27. let 's hear what I have said . But let every Man prove his own Work , and then shall he have Rejo●cing in himself alone , and not in another Be not deceived , for whatsoever a Man soweth that shall he reap .

If Rejoycing , and Acceptance with God , or the contrary , are to be reaped from the Work that a Man soweth , either to the Flesh , or to the Spirit , then is the Doctrine of Acceptance , and Ground of Rejo●cing from the Works of another utterly excluded ; every Man reaping according to what HE hath sown , and bearing HIS OWN Burden .

The Question will now be , Whether I meant this of the Creature alone , or by the Assistance of God's Holy Spirit , by which his Children are led ?

Concerning which I need say no more , then what that Book speaks in my Defence , yea , that very Page , from whence he fetches this pretended Dangerous Assertion . For as many as are led by the Spirit of God , are the Sons of God .

How clearly will it appear to any but a Cavilling and Tenacious Spirit ; that Man can be no further * * Justification not as Remission , but as made Just. Justified , then as he becomes obedient to the Spirit 's Leadings ; For if none can be a Son of God , but HE that 's led by the Spirit of God , then none can be justified without being led by the Spirit of God ; because none can be Justified but he that is a Son of God : so that the Way to Justification and Son-ship , is through Obedience to the Spirit 's Leadings .

By all which it appears , that I am not speaking of Remission of Sins , as if by our Conformity to the Spirit it self , we could so justifie our selves . No ; but that by being Led by the Spirit of God , and Fulfilling of his Royal Law , Men come to be accepted , as Children of God ; and the Ground of their Joy is from their own Experience of the Work of God in them . What was it made the Faithful Servants that improved their Talents be accepted ; and gave an Entrance to the Wise Virgins into the Bride-groom's Chamber ? Were it not the Improvements of the one , and the Oyl in the Lamps of the other ? And if T. Hicks come not to know that holy State , he shall never know Eternal Rejoycings , that is the Word of Truth to him ; For such as he sows , such shall he reap in God's Day of Account . Contin . p. 54. Wherefore that Scripture by him brought out of Isaiah makes greatly for us ; Surely shall one say , in ( or from ) the Lord have I Righteousness ; that is , not in or from my self ; Isa. 45.24 , 25. In the Lord shall all the Seed of Israel be justified , and shall glory . Is there no being in the Life , Power , Nature and Virtue of that Seed ? then no Salvation . Also that of the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 1.30 , 31. Christ is made unto us Righteousness ; wherefore let him that glorieth glory in the Lord . For this I affirm , and that with Boldness and Truth , that Isaiah and Paul speak of a Real and Inward Righteousness , not the less in the Creature , because not of the Creature , but of Christ . Was not Paul's Righteousness the Son of God revealed ●n him ? that everlasting Righteousness , that Christ binding and casting out of the strong Man , making an End of Sin , and finishing of Transgression , he brought and brings into the Soul ? For that their Righteousness should be in or from him , or that he should be made their Righteousness , & they never know a being cloathed and made Righteous by it , were Absurd and Impossible . In short , As we know no Righteousness out of Christ our Lord , so knowing his Appearance in us , and that Grace for Grace , received of his Fulness , in whom are hid the Treasures of Wisdom and Knowledge , and being obedient thereunto , we know and witness a Participation of his Everlasting Righteousness , Holy Wisdom and Saving Knowledge , which qualifie and adorn the Soul for the blessed Marriage of the Lamb , who takes away the Sins of the World ; not only the Guilt of Sins past by Remission upon Repentance , but as a Redeemer from under the Power and Nature of Sin present and to come , through the Virtue of his Holy Life in the Soul , which is the Compleatment of Justification , and the Thing now insisted on .

Lastly , he gives under the Quakers name , as a dangerous Doctrine , this Passage ; Justification goes not before , but is consequential to the mortifying of Lusts , and the Sanctification of the Soul . Cont. Pag. 59. Penn , Sand. Found Sh. p. 27. To which he answers . Doth not this import that a Man must be formally just before he be justified ? I would ask whether Remission of Sins be not one part of Justification ? Qua. I suppose it may . Chr. Can one be forgiven that is not Guilty ? It looks like a Contradiction , to pardon one that is Innocent . Certainly he that is pardoned must be a Sinner . To all which I return this much were he True and Honest in his Reasoning , I had been to blame for my Ignoronce , and T. Hicks to be commendable for his Answer ; but he dodges basely . He would avoid my Argument about the second part of Justification , by suggesting that I meant it of the first , to wit , Remission of Sins , as much as if he had said ; What , must all Sin be mortified before a Man be pardoned his old Score ? and can a Man 's own Good Works so remit , Cancel or justifie ? But his Sleight will not do . I have oft●n declared that upon Repentance God doth not impute past Iniquity to any , therefore that part of his Answer which seems most smart upon me , that is , Can one be forgiven that is not Guilty ? &c. vanisheth of Course ; for the Question is not , Whether Man in his natural Estate is Guilty before God , and such can be no otherwise so justified , that is , Remitted , then by the free Love of God ▪ which is the first part of Justification , as David speaks , Blessed is the Man unto whom the Lord will not impute Sin . But whether Men are daily accepted as Children of God , redeemed , and saved of the Lord , and justified as such , in his Presence , further than as they come to be led by his holy Spirit , and know Victory over Sin ? which is the second part of Justification . So that he did dishonestly with me , to suggest my Denyal of Remission of Sins past , upon any other Score then the Mortification of Sin in the Party so pardoned : For though Sin may not be mortified , yet if there be a Foundation of true Repentance laid , the Guilt of former Iniquities , I have often said , is not imputed . It was therefore very unfairly done of him , from my Asserting daily Acceptance , and Fellowship with God , to be the Consequent of a Self-denying and mortified Life through the powerful Working of the Spirit of Christ in Man , to infer , that before this Work was done , there could be no Remission of Sins past ; as if it were the procuring Cause of Pardon , and not the free Love of God upon Repentance . In short , it is to say , that because I deny Men may be justified in the second Sense , without being made truly and really Just ; that therefore Men are to be made Just and Innocent before they are forgiven ; which is Justification in the first Sense . And thus has he dodg'd disingenuously with me throughout this Point : Where I meant by Justification , Remission of Sins , he has run It the other way ; And when I have understood it of a State of Fellowship and daily Acceptance with God , then he has taken it for Remission , with manifest Design , to render me as confus'd , contradictory and unscriptural as he could ; but that all lights upon himself , and I doubt not but in the end it will appear , that I have contended for the Justification of Life , whilst his aimes will have been at nothing more in all his Bussle , then to promote a Justification in a State of Death , where the indwelling Life , Power and Virtue of Christ , which gives to live to God in the nearness of Life , cannot be enjoyed nor known : else , what means his reputing that Assertion in my Sandy Foundation shaken , so Erroneous , namely , without Good Works there is no Acceptance with God , which , without any Wrong to him , causes me to believe , that it is his Faith , that Men may be accepted with God without Good Works ; and consequently that they are not necessary to Salvation . I wish for his sake , more then mine own , he had been no more Injurious to me , and the Truth I have defended , then I have been to him , in expressing but the natural Result and Tendency of his Doctrine .

I shall now be as good as my Word , and that is , to produce an Argument or two against the Common Doctrines of rigid Satisfaction and Justification , as they have been opposed by me in this short Discourse , and that out of my Book called , The Sandy Foundation Shaken , because it has been most in this Adversary's Eye ; That if he thinks fit to reply , he may have something else to employ his Mind about then to write Dialogues filled with Lyes , Shifts , Forgeries , Scoffs , Impudence and Scurrility .

Of SATISFACTION .

1. Who is a God like unto thee , that pardoneth Iniquity , and passeth by the Transgression of the Remnant of his Heritage ? Micah . 7.18 . He retaineth not his Anger forever : because he delighteth in Mercy . [ Can there be a more express Passage to clear , not only the Possibility , but real Inclinations in God to pardon Sin , and not retain his Anger for ever ? since the Prophet seems to challenge all other Gods to try their Excellency by his God , herein describing the Supremacy of his Power and Superexcellency of his Nature , that he pardoneth Iniquity , and retaineth not his Anger for ever : so that if the Satisfactionists should ask the Question , Who is a God like unto ours , that cannot pardon Iniquity , nor pass by Transgression , but retain his Anger until some-body make him Satisfaction ? I answer , Many amongst the harsh and severe Rulers of the Nation ; but as for my God , he is exalted above them all , upon the Throne of his Mercy , who pardoneth Iniquity , and retaineth not his Anger for ever , but will have Compassion upon us ] .

2. And forgive us our Debts , as we forgive our Debtors . [ Where nothing can be more obvious then that which is forgiven , is not paid : Mat. 6.12 . And if it is our Duty to forgive without a Satisfaction receiv'd , and that God is to forgive us as we forgive them , then is a Satisfaction totally excluded . Christ farther paraphrases upon that part of his Prayer , v. 14. For if you forgive their Trespasses , your heavenly Father will also forgive you . Where he as well argues the Equity of God's Forgiving them , from their Forgiving others , as he encourages them to forgive others , from the Example of God's Mercy in forgiving them ; which is more amply exprest in Chap. 18. where the Kingdom of Heaven ( that consists in Righteousness ) is represented by a King ; Who upon his Debtors Petition had Compassion , and forgave him ; but the same treating his Fellow-Servant without the least Forbearance , the King condemned his Vnrighteousness , and delivered him ever to the Tormenters . But how had this been a Fault in the Servant , if his Kings Mercy had not been proposed for his Example ? How most unworthy therefore is it of God , and Blasphemous may I justly term it , to be in any's daring to assert that Forgiveness impossible to God , which is not only possible , but enjoyn'd to Men. ]

Consequences Irreligious and Irrational .

1 That it 's Unlawful and Impossible for God Almighty to be Gracious and Merciful , or to pardon Transgressors ; then which what 's more Unworthy of God ?

2 That God was inevitably compell'd to this way of Saving Men ; the highest Affront to his incontroleable Nature .

3. That it was Unworthy of God to Pardon , but not to inflict Punishment on the Innocent , or require a Satisfaction , where there was nothing due .

4. It doth not only disacknowledge the true Virtue , and real Intent of Christ's Life and Death , but intirely deprives God of that Praise which is owing to his greatest Love and Goodness .

5. It represents the Son more Kind and Compassionate than the Father ; whereas if both be the same God , then either the Father is as Loving as the Son , or the Son as Angry as the Father .

6. It robs God of the Gift of his Son for our Redemption ( which the Scriptures attribute to the unmerited Love he had for the World ) in affirming the Son purchased that Redemption from the Father , by the Gift of himself to God , as our compleat Satisfaction .

7. Since Christ could not pay what w●● not his own , it follows that in the Payment of his own , the case still remains equally grievous ; Since the Debt is not hereby absolv'd or forgiven , but transfer'd only ; and by consequence we are no better provided for Salvation than before , owing that now to the Son , which was once owing to the Father .

8. It no way renders Men beholding , or i● the least oblieg'd to God ; since by their Doctrine , he would not have abated us , nor did he Christ the last Farthing , so that the acknowledgments are peculiarly the Sons : which destroys the whole current of Scripture Testimony , for his Good Will towards Men. — O the Infamous Portraiture this Doctrine draws of the Infinite Goodness ! Is this your Retribution , O Injurious Satisfactionists ?

9. That God's Justice is satisfied for Sins past , present , and to come , whereby God and Christ have lost both their Power of injoyning Godliness , and Prerogative of punishing Disobedience ; for what is once paid , is not revokeable ; and if Punishment should arrest any for their Debts , it either argues a Breach on God's or Christ's part , or else that it hath not been sufficiently solv'd , and the Penalty compleatly sustained by another ; forgetting that every one must appear before the Judgment-Seat of Christ , Rom. 14.12 . 2. Cor. 15.10 . to receive according to things done in the Body : Yea , every one must give an account of himself to God . But many more are the gross Absurdities and Blasphemies , that are the genuine Fruits of this so confidently believ'd Doctrine of Satisfaction .

Of JUSTIFICATION .

1. Not every one that saith unto me Lord , Lord , shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven , but He that doth the Will of my Father . Mat 7.21 , 24 , 25. Whosoever heareth these Sayings of mine , and doth them , I will liken him unto a Wise Man which built his House upon a Rock &c. [ How very fruitful are the Scriptures of Truth in Testimonies against this absurd and dangerous Doctrine ; these Words seem to import a two-fold Righteousness , the first consists in Sacrifice , the last in Obedience ; the one makes a Talking , the other a Doing Christian . I in short argue thus , If none can enter into the Kingdom of Heaven , but they that do the Father's Will ; then none are justified , but they who do the Father's Will , because none can enter into the Kingdom , but such as are justified . Since therefore there can be no Admittance had without Performing that Righteous Will , and Doing those Holy and perfect Sayings , Alas ! to what Value will an imputative Righteousness amount when a poor Soul shall awake polluted in his Sin , by the hasty Calls of Death to make its Appearance before the Judgment Seat , where 't is impossible to justifie the Wicked , or that any should escape uncondemned , but such as do the Will of God . ]

Rom. 2.13 . 2. For not the Hearers of the Law are just before God , but the Doers of the Law shall be justified . [ From whence how unanswerably may I observe , Unless we become Doers of that Law , which Christ came not to destroy , but , as our Example , to fulfil , we can never be justified before God ; wherefore Obedience is so absolutely necessary , that short of it there can be no Acceptance ; Nor let any fancy that Christ hath so fulfill'd it for them , as to exclude their Obedience from being requisite to their Acceptance , but only as their Pattern , For unless ye follow me , saith Christ , ye cannot be my Disciples : And it is not only repugnant to Reason , but in this place particularly refuted ; for if Christ had fulfill'd it on our behalf , and we not enabled to follow his Example , there would not be Doers , but One Doer only of the Law justified before God . In short , if without Obedience to the Righteous Law none can be justified , then all the Hearing of the Law , with but the meer Imputation of anothers Righteousness , whilst actually a Breaker of it , is excluded as not justifying before God . If you fulfill the Royal Law , ye do well ; so speak ye , and so DO , as they that shall be judg'd thereby . ]

3. If ye live after the Flesh , ye shall dye ; but if ye through the Spirit do mortifie the Deeds of the Body , Rom. 8.13 . ye shall live . [ No Man can be dead and justified before God , for so He may be justified that lives after the Flesh ; therefore they only can be justified that are alive ; from whence this follows , If the Living are justified and not the Dead , and that none can live to God , but such as have mortified the Deeds of the Body through the Spirit , then none can be justified but they who have mortified the Deeds of the Body through the Spirit ; so that * * Justification is compleatly taken . justification does not go before , but is subsequential to the Mortification of Lusts , and Sanctification of the Soul through the Spirit 's operation . ]

4. Was not Abraham our Father justified by Works , when he had offered Isaak his Son upon the Altar ? Jam. 2.21 , 24. Ye see then how that by Works a Man is justified , and not by Faith only . [ He that will seriously peruse this Chapter , shall doubtless find some , to whom this Epistle was writen , of the same Spirit with the Satisfactionists and Imputarians of our t●me ; they fain would have found out a Justification from Faith in , and the Imputation of anothers Righteousness ; but James an Apostle of the most high God , who experimentally knew what true Faith and Justification meant , gave them to understand from Abraham's self-denying Example , that unless their Faith in the Purity and Power of God's Grace , had that effectual Operation to subdue every beloved Lust , wean from every Dallila , and intirely to resign and sacrifice Isaak himself , their Faith was a Fable , or as a Body without a Spirit ; and as Righteousness therefore in one Person cannot justify another from Unrighteousness , so whoever now pretends to be justified by Faith , whilst not led and guided by the Spirit into all the Wayes of Truth , and Works of Righteousness , their Faith they will find at last Fiction . ]

Consequences Irreligious and Irrational .

1. It makes God guilty of what the Scriptures say is an Abomination , to wit , that he justifieth the Wicked .

2. It makes him look upon Persons as they are not , or with respect , which is unworthy of his most Equal Nature .

3. He is hereby at Peace with the Wicked ( if justified whilst Sinners ) who said , There is no Peace to the Wicked .

4. It does only imply Communion with them here , in an Imperfect State , but so to all Eternity ; Rom. 8.30 . for whom he justifieth , them he also glorifieth . Therefore whom he justify'd whilst Sinners , them he also glorify'd whilst Sinners .

5. It only secures from the Wages , not the Dominion of Sin , whereby something that is sinful becomes justify'd , and that which defileth to enter God's Kingdom .

6. It renders a Man justify'd and condemn'd , dead and alive , redeemed and not redeemed at the same time ; the one by an Imputative Righteousness , the last by a Personal Unrighteousness .

7. It flatters Men whilst subject to the World's Lusts , with a State of Justification , and thereby invalids the very End of Christ's Appearance , which was to destroy the Works of the Devil , and take away the Sins of the World .

CHAP. X.

Of the Doctrine of Sanctification and Perfection . The Ignorance or Malice of T. Hicks Detected .

OF the Doctrine of Sanctification he has several Vnsanctified Passages , though he bestows not much time upon that Important Subject ; some of which I shall take a little notice of .

Christ . Let us understand your Opinion of Sanctification , Cont. p. 56. what it is ? Out of Ed. Burroughs he answereth himself thus , Quak. 'T is Christ . Hence we conclude , to say Sanctification is Imperfect in this Life , is as much as to say , Christ is Imperfect . To which he replies . Christ . 'T is true , 't is Jesus Christ by his Spirit is the Author and Worker of Sanctification ; but will it therefore follow , that the Work of Sanctification in us is Christ , or that this Work is perfect in all its Degrees ?

Now let any tell me wherein T. Hicks could have more grosly mistaken E. Burroughs , who frequently insults over the Grave and Labours of that Faithful Servant of the Lord , then he has done , on purpose I doubt not , to insinuate his Belief of the contrary to what he opposed . But hear Edw. Burrough's Words at large in Answer to Priest Eaton .

Thou sayest , Sanctification is not Perfect in this Life ; And the New Man , the Spirit or Law of the Mind is that Grace or Imperfect Sanctification : Then Christ is not Perfect in this Life ; for He is made of God unto us Sanctification , 1 Cor. 1.30 .

In this it is evident First , That the Priest did not so much strike at the Work done in the Creature , as at the Perfection of the Principle , by which the Work should be perfected in the Creature .

2dly , E. Burroughs did not in that place meerly intend the Work of Sanctification , but the Author and Worker of it , who is oftentimes called by the Name of the Work it self , the Cause by the Effect , as is plain from the Scripture quoted , in which he used but Paul's Words .

How basely done was it then , in Tho. Hicks , not only to leave out what the Priest asserted , but to misconstrue E. B's Answer , and ( that such Perversion might go the more Unquestionable ) omit the Insertion of that Scripture , in which Christ is by the A●stle said to be made Sanctification to the Saints ; the mention of which would have given a clear Understanding of E. Burroughs's Answer , and broke the Neck of his Ungodly Purpose to misrepresent him . We say , and it was the Faith and Tendency of the Writings of that Just Man , 1. To assert a Perfect Principle of Righteousness and Sanctification , which is Sanctification and Perfection in the abstract . 2. The Possibility of being Perfectly Sanctified by it . 3. That such Sanctification , when taken for the Author of it ( who is the Fountain of all Holiness and Purity ) is Compleat and Perfect . 4. When taken for the Work of the Spirit in the Creature , it is first Perfect in Degree only ; but as the Creature comes into perfect Subjection unto the Spirit and Power of him that raised up Jesus from the Dead , which hath wrought that Perfection in Degree , 1 Thes. 5.23 . he comes to experience that Sanctification throughout , in Body , Soul and Spirit , which the Apostle ( otherwise minded then T. Hicks ) prayed the Churches might witness , which is that blessed State , wherein he that 's born of God SINS NOT ; Old things are done away , 1 John 5.18 . & 2.1 , 3. ALL IS BECOME NEW ; No more I , but Christ that liveth in me . I write unto you , Matth. 15.48 . Young Men , because ye have OVERCOME the Wicked One : Ephes. 4.13 . Be ye Perfect as your Heavenly Father is Perfect . 2 Tim. 23.17 . — unto a PERFECT MAN . Hebr. 13.12 . That the Man of God may be PERFECT . 1 Pet. 5.10 . The God of Peace make you PERFECT IN EVERY GOOD WORK . 2 Cor. 7.1 . The God of all Peace make you PERFECT . Let us cleanse our selves from ALL FILTHINESS OF FLESH AND SPIRIT ; Perfecting Holiness in the Fear of the Lord . With many more Places of like Importance .

But he objects , Why doth the Apostle exhort Sanctified Persons to put off the Old Man ( from Coloss. 3.5 . ) If where the Old Man , the Body of Sin remains none are Sanctified , as saith E.B.

This indeed is the Drift of the Man , he would be Sanctified whilst Unsanctified ; as Dangerous , as it is Absurd : For what thing can be and not be the same thing , at one and the same time ? But I deny they were then Sanctified who stood in need of that Reproof and Exhortation , to wit , that they should mortifie such Lusts , as Fornication . Vncleanness , Inordinate Affection , and Covetousness , which is Idolatry . Sanctifying such are , who are Mortifying : but when Sin is not Mortifying , none are Sanctifying ; and where Sin is not Mortified , no Man is Sanctified . We may easily see , what a Church-Fellowship T.H. can allow of , and what a Gospel-Sanctification it is he pleads for . Can Men be Sanctified , and yet so Corrupt ? If they can , tell me in what sense , and from what they are cleansed ? Is this the End of pleading for Perfection in Degree , to allow these Abominable Enormities , as Church-Infirmities ? Away for Shame ! But that a perfect Sanctification is no Heresie , suppose they had been Sanctify'd Persons to whom the Apostle wrote ( which could not be , Sanctifying was the most ) yet since he exhorted them , to put off the Old Man , which Old Man is the Body of Sin , and that when he is off , he is not on , and that the Apostle exhorted them Not to an Impossible thing , I conclude from his Question , that a State of Perfect Sanctification is attainable . He pretended to correct E. B's Extravagancy ; but whatever Face he puts upon it , this is the Mark he aims at . To conclude , and sum up his Ungodly Method ; E.B. speaks of a Perfect Sanctification in Christ . T.H. infers , that same perfect Sanctification immediately to the Creature ; not only confounding the Worker and Work , the Cause and the Effect , about which one piece of Baseness he bestows not a little Pains ; but suggesting thereby , that we deny all Sanctification or Perfection in Degree , and that we are as compleatly Perfect as Christ himself . Next , He leaves out those words , that would best explain his Mind . And Lastly , All his Opposition is , because the Quakers are for having Men Sanctify'd before they are Accounted so , and New Creatures before they ought to be reputed Good Christians ; which so directly Vn-churches and Vn-christians T. Hicks , that we may well believe it a main Reason for his Implacableness against them .

CHAP. XI .

Of COMMANDS , MOTIONS and MINISTRY . T. Hicks proved Vnjust to us , and an Enemy to God's Law , Gospel , the Quakers , and himself .

HE has not less abused and belyed us in these three Particulars , then any thing he has written against us , which I shall briefly shew .

To this Passage in E. Burroughs's Works , That is no Command to me which is a Command to another , E. B's Works , p. 47. neither did any of the Saints act by a Command that was given to another , he thus answers , Then that Law which forbids Idolatry , Adultery , Murder , Theft and Bearing false Witness is no Law to you . And after having made this indirect Consequence , he breaketh forth , Impiously Horrid , Vngodly , Irreverent Patronizers of Blasphemy , Countenancers of such Novices , Prophane Scribler , and abundance more .

Now though I have said something to this before , and have largely vindicated that Passage against J. Faldo , yet I cannot well omit touching here upon it , the Matter being so aggravated by this disingenuous Person .

These Commands must either relate to Ordinary or Extraordinary Duty , I mean , they must either be such Commands , as that of Moses 's going to Pharaoh , Isaiah's going Naked , Jeremiah 's making Yoaks , Amos 's going to the Kings's Chappel ; with many more : And here I do affirm with that Faithful Young Man of God , that the Command which came to them , not coming to another , that other Person is not only not warranted , but condemnable in an Imitation of any of them . If then such Extraordinary Commands , as these before mentioned , must not be intended , then those that are Ordinary and Common to Mankind , as Fearing God , and working Righteousness towards God , towards their Relations both Natural and Civil . Now I would ask T.H. if he believes that Idolatry , Murder , Adultery , Theft and Bearing false Witness be not reproved by the Common Light in all Men ? if not , T.H. gives the Lye to all Mankind , Dialog. p. 8. Cont. p. 68. and his own Books too ; Nay , what is it good for ? But if they be ; query , If any can confess to one God , love his Neighbour , be Chaste , be Just , and speak Truth in his own and Neighbour's Cause , without being thereto oblieged by that Light they have ? Did the Gentiles of old the things contained in the Law , without a Word , Commandment , Law or Light within , inducing them thereto ? I perceive T. Hicks owns no Command in himself against Idolatry , Adultery , Murder , Theft and Bearing false Witness ; which is to say , if the Scripture did not restrain him , he should be guilty of all . Farewell Grace , Spirit , Light and all Inward Rule or Judge , by which to see , taste , relish and determine of things . But in this Condition , how knows he that the Scriptures were writ by Inspiration ? If he sayes he was told so ; I ask how they knew it ? If they say they were told so too , and so upwards ; I ask what Assurance can any Man 's Say-so or Hear-say be in a Matter of such Importance ? Nay , Suppose I should grant them a True Tradition from the Apostles times , I ask , how knew they to whom they were writ , that they were the Fruits of Divine Inspiration ? In short , take away all Inward Testimony , or the Certainty and Sufficiency of it , and Farewell to all Right Belief of the Scriptures themselves . Behold the Strait he is run into ! But if at last T.H. shall desire a little more room , and acknowledge the Spirit must give the Discerning , and Relish , and most Convincing Testimony ; will it not follow that he believeth the Scriptures , and performeth what may be his Duty therein , upon that Conviction , and not meerly because written or recommended by any Man whatever ?

But he proceeds to prove E.B. as he thinks , an Enemy to God's Commandments , and a very Lyar. Contin . p. 61. The thing he Wickedly , but in vain aims at .

He quotes him thus , Quak. You are not dead with Christ who are yet subject to Ordinances , E.B. p. 105. To which hear him . Christ . The Spirit of God in the Scriptures assures us , that they who are subject to , and keep the Commandments of God , are the Children of God , and they who do not are Lyars . See the first Epistle of John 2.3 , 4. and Chap. 5.2 , 3. Yet this Wicked Man saith , That they who are subject to Ordinances are not Dead with Christ .

Edw. Burroughs's Words are those of the Scriptures of Truth , therefore true Words in themselves . But how does E.B. abolish what God perpetuates ? I am sure I can plainly perceive that Tho. Hicks does call a Conscientious , Departed Sufferer , and Prisoner unto Death for the Testimony of Jesus , Wicked Man , because he dared not be guilty of Will-Worship , by going into any Practice of Worship , without the Leading of God's Spirit . Six Particulars comprehend my Answer in brief .

First , That Edw. Burroughs only pleaded against such Performances , under the Name of Ordinances , as were but Shadowy , * * Observe how T. Hicks can quote Scripture to keep Ordinances , never mentioned nor intended in it . Again , that he puts more Value upon such Commands as are Temporary then those that are Immutable ; and brings Scripture that concerns the Latter to confirm his Belief of the Former . Elementary and Perishable Things ; and which they were not led to by God's Spirit , but took up unwarrantably , and by meer Imitation , and therefore Will-Worship .

2. That Thomas Hicks implies by calling him Wicked Man , that it is a Wickedness , not to take up any Outward or Visible Part of Worship in a Man 's own Will' and Time ; But to stay God's Time , and wait for the Leadings of God's Spirit : From whence I infer , ●e is no Child of God ; for every such one , is led by the Spirit of God ; therefore no better then an Ape , or Imitator of the Out-sides of Religion ; In short , a Will-worshipper , and not a Worshipper of God in the Spirit and in the Truth .

3. Let it be observed , that there is not so much as the least mention made in all the Epistles of that Beloved Disciple of any of those Ordinances , which stood in Visible and Corruptible Elements ; but the Scope and Tendency of them , is the most Inward and Spiritual of any of the Apostolical Writings : So that to bring in things of a Temporary , Shadowy Nature , among the Spiritual and Durable Commands of Christ under the New Covenant State , without keeping of which Men incur Eternal Wrath , is an Abuse both of the Apostle's Words , and E. B's , which he intended by them to confute .

4. T. Hicks does as good as tell us , That the Commandments of God may be kept without the Spirit of God ; since he opposes the Necessity of our Doing God's Commandments , to our doing them in the Time and Will , and by the Assistance of God's Spirit . O Irreligious Man , and Enemy to God's Spirit !

5. It plainly tells us , that Tho. Hicks has no Command in himself for doing what he does ; that the bare Authority of the Scripture is all he has to induce him , which raizes to the Ground that old Protestant Doctrine of Believing the Scriptures from an Inward Testimony , and Worshipping God in Spirit and Truth .

6. Lastly , If all are Lyars that keep not God's Commandments , and therefore none of his Children , as saith the Place , & as asserts T. Hicks , then either T.H. keeps God's Commandments , and so is perfect , or he must be a Lyar , and so no Child of God .

That he keeps not God's Commands I prove .

If such , as say that Man cannot fulfil , obey or keep the Law , nor the Gospel ; pray , preach , dip , eat Bread and drink Wine , nor live without Sin , keeps not God's Commandments ; but so doth T.H. expresly or implicitely ; therefore he keeps not God's Commandments , and consequently is a Lyar , and no Child of God ; For the Lyar is for the Lake .

To say , we deny Obedience to God's Commands , because we deny the present Necessity or Use of their Water , Bread and Wine , will never hurt us ; For , First , we know , and they confess , that they were in the beginning used as Figures and Shadows of a more Hidden and Spiritual Substance .

2. That they were to endure no longer then till the Substance was come : Now the time of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost , Christ's only Baptism , therefore called the One Baptism , has been long since come ; Consequently the other , which was John's , Mat. 3. Acts 1. was fulfilled , and as becomes a Fore-runner , ought to cease . The like may be said of the Bread and Wine ; for as there is but One Baptism , so is there but One Bread . The Least in the Kingdom was Greater then John 's Water-Baptism ; He was to Decrease , Christ to Increase . Jesus Baptized not with Water : 'T is true , he bid his Apostles Go , Teach , Baptizing , &c. but no Water is mentioned : But Luke in the 1st of the Acts , sayes that before Christ gave that Commission mention'd by Matthew , said , John Baptized with Water , but ye shall be Baptized with the Holy Ghost not many dayes hence ; and then comes the Commission in Force , Go , Teach , Baptizing , &c. How ? With the Holy Ghost ; turning People from Darkness to Light , and from the Power of Satan unto God .

3. They were but the more Noble among the Meats and Drinks , and divers Washings , that the Apostle said were but Shadows of the Good Things to come ; For I would not that any should be so Sottish as to think , that Christ came to abolish those Shadows of the Jews , and institute other in their room ; by no means : He came to remove , change and abolish the very Nature of such Ordinances , and no● the particular Ordinances only , to wit , an Outward , Shadowy or Figurative Worship and Religion . For it was not because they were Jewish Meats and Drinks , and divers Washings , but because they were Meats & Drinks , and divers outward Washings at all , which never could , nor can , cleanse the Conscience from dead Works , nor give Eternal Life to the Soul : else wherein would the Change be ? I affirm by that one Scripture , Circumcision is as much in force as Water-Baptism ; and the Paschal Lamb , as Bread and Wine : They were both Shadows , and both Elementary and Perishable . And though the Letter were more immediatly fore-running and introductory of the Substance it self , yet not to be perpetuated ; For a Continuance of them had been a Judaizing of the Spiritual Evangelical Worship ; The Gospel would have been a State of Figures , Types and Shadows , which to assert or practise , is as much as in such lies , to pluck it up by the Roots ; The Appellation , Ordinances of Christ , I therefore renounce , as Unscriptural and Inevangelical : Besides , a Spirit of Whoredom from God , gross Apostacy into Superstition and Idolatry , yea , a Spirit of Hypocrisie , Persecution and Murder , and all manner of Wickedness has got them , and covered It self with them , Jezebel-like , the old Enemy of God's Faithful Prophets and People . And we can testifie from the same Spirit by which Paul renounced Circumcision , that they are to be rejected , as not now required ; neither have they , since the False Church espoused and exalted them , ever been taken up afresh by God's Command or , in the Leading of his Eternal Spirit : And the Lord will appear to gather People out of them ; but never to establish , or keep People in them , no ; they served their time ; and now the False Church has got them ; yea , the Whore has made Merchandize with them , and under such Historical , Shadowy and Figurative Christianity has she managed her Mystery of Iniquity , unto the beguiling Thousands , whose Simplicity the Lord has , and will have tender Regard to .

But they Baptized after the Holy Ghost was poured out . True ; And they also would not eat the Flesh of things Strangled , nor Blood ; They Circumcised and Purified themselves in the Temple , and had Vows after the Pouring forth of the Holy Ghost . By which we may learn , that Condescension & Practice are quite differing things from Institution ; else Paul would never have said . He was not sent to Baptize ( i. e. ) with Water ; whose Commission doubtless went as far as any of the rest .

But they brake Bread , and Paul received it from God . True ; But Paul never enjoyned it ; He said , As often as ye do it , &c. which is very wide of any Institution . Again , Read the Chapter fore-going 11. or 10. where he tells the Wise Men of another Bread then that he spoke to the Weak of , who eat and drank to Excess , not discerning the Lord's Body .

Further , Let it be considered , that no other Apostle recommends these things , nor Paul himself to either the Romans , the Corinthians ( in his first Epistle ) the Galatians , Ephesians , Philippians , Collossians , Thessalonians , Hebrews ( if his ) nor to Timothy , Titus and Philemon , when he set down the Order of the Churches . What an Over-sight ( might one then say , according to T.H. ) was it in him , not only not to press and charge , but not to mention the Sacraments of the Church , necessary to Salvation , as they are called and esteemed ? Would it not have been accounted a great Neglect and Defect in Calvin , if he had been silent to any Church instituted in his Time and Form ; or to say , He thanked God he baptized none but such and such ? Yet how full are his and their Epistles of Divine Exhortation , Information , Reproof , Instruction , and the like ? Is it not very Wicked then in T. Hicks to tell the World of our Denying to keep God's Commandments in general , because we Refuse to practise these Shadowy , Temporary , Perishing Things , especially at this time a day , after such an Abuse of them , and that the Gentile-Spirit has troden them under ●oot so long , being part of that Outward Courts of Religion , given to them , which were left out at the measuring of the Evangelical Temple of God . Rev. 21 ? Besides , what Authority have these Men for Using them ? To do as Men would be done to , concerns all in all Ages ; but to practise Figures and Shadows in Religion , we know does not . A Church cannot be without one , yet without the other . Would it not be Ridiculous in any Man to adorn himself either as some eminent Commander , or other Officer , because it is required by Office or Place of every such one that really is so ? The Apostles baptized , therefore must T. H ? The Apostles anointed with Oyl , therefore should T. H ? Nay , Christ washed his Disciples Feet , telling them , they ought , or it was their Duty so to do one to the other , therefore should T. H ? The Believers sold their Possessions , and had all things Common ; but will T.H. either imitate , or enjoyn this upon his Hearers ? But since T.H. and his Adherents , do not several such things , once done and enjoyned to , as Blood , Things Strangled , Anointing with Oyl , Washing of Feet , &c. why are they not to be as much blamed , as we are for omitting that of Bread and Wine ? Or why should not they rather desist Practising of those with the rest , and that upon the same terms ? I will warrant T.H. for going to Synagogues , Decr●ing Hirelings , Preaching Freely , Exposing himself to all Hardship for the Gospel's sake , which the Apostles did .

To conclude , God never condescended to use such Things ( to lead to , and hold forth the hidden Substance ) that People should rest there , and much less in a Way of Opposition to the Substance it self : such an Use of them has caused God to loath them , and enjoyn us to testifie against them . Remember the Instituted Brazen-Serpent of old , &c. what became of them in the like case ? We would be glad to see more Honesty , Meekness and Godly-mindedness in our Opposers , though there were less of this Imitation : They are for such Commands , as they call them , which Hypocrites , Apostates , the False Church , yea , the Devil himself can come into ; but as for those that concern the Daily Cross and Victory over Sin , they can Wickedly pl●●d a kind of Liberty from , at least to their Unconquerable Infirmities , as they are willing to believe them . But we testifie against the False Church , whose Faith & Worship stands not in the Life , Power and Spirit of God , however deckt with the ancient Attire of the True ; for her finest Forms out of the Life and Power of God we renounce , and as becomes the true Evangelical Church , we assert , That he is not a Jew or Christian , who is one Outwardly , neither is that now the Circumcision , Baptism and Supper , which is Outward ; but he is the Jew or Christian , that is one Inwardly ; and that is the Circumcision that is of the HEART , that the Baptism , which is of the HOLY GHOST and FIRE , and that the Supper , which is of the BREAD THAT COMETH DOWN FROM ABOVE , which gives Eternal Life to as many as eat thereof , and that is of the WINE WHICH IS TO BE DRUNK NEW WITH CHRIST IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITHIN , Luke 17.20 .

Much might be said in this matter , but I refer the Reader to the Book entituled Quakerism a new Nick-Name for old Christianity . However let it be noted , that our Adversary is for Will-Worship , and not the Quakers ; For we affirm that no Sacrifice nor Performance can be acceptable with God , to , and in which his Holy Spirit leads not ; by the which only , Self is abas'd , kept under , and in perfect Obedience to , and watchfull Observance of God's Holy Will. But Tho. Hicks makes this a Strange and Dangerous Doctrine , insinuating that we perform nothing but upon a kind of Spiritual Compulsion , as if that God required Man to do all his Commandements without his holy Spirit , alwayes ready to incline and help them , either to begin or perform any such Duty : or that there were no Difference between waiting for the natural Springs of Divine Power to assist , and being compell'd to worship . But this shews his great Ignorance of God's Spirit , its dayly Movings upon the Heart of Men , either as a Reprover or Comforter for Good ; for were he better acquainted with its Dealings , it would not be so uncouth to him , to hear of our Waiting to feel the holy Stirrings of it , in order to every Religious Performance : wherefore let not his Ignorance be any Argument against our holy Gospel Practice . The Saints of old had a Warrant in themselves for what they did : They were not wont to run into the Imitation of former Generations as to any External Appointments because then commanded , and practised as proper , but consulted the Anointing they had receiv'd about the Continuation or Dis-use of such Figures or outward Services ; and as they receiv'd Wisdom and Counsel therefrom , either to use or decline the Practice of them , they acted , and no otherwise ; making good the Apostles Saying , that as many as are led by the Spirit of God , are the Sons of God : Are we led by It in ALL things , then in , and about God's things . Had it not been for this , how could the Apostles have preach'd down the whole Ceremonial Worship of the Jews ? The meer Letter of Scriptures could never have been their Rule in the Case . If any say they were extraordinarily Inspired , I answer , how did such as then believ'd know that , if not from an Inward Testimony ? Nay , what Rule had the many Thousands then to worship God by ? The Hebrew Bible was little , or not at all known to the Gentiles . The Scripture tells us that whole Churches were setled in the Faith before the Epistles were writ ; And it is hard to think , when they were writ , that they could be suddenly collected ; and when collected , that every Individual could get a Coppy , that to be sure , ought to have a Rule ; for Printing was not so early in the World , and Transscribing must needs have been to Irksome for every Person to obtain a Coppy for his or her peculiar Benefit : But because we are taught to believe that they wanted not True Rule of Faith and Practice , and that the Scriptures especially of the new Testament , could not be all that to them , our present Adversaries conclude to make the great Rule , let them not be displeas'd if I infer from hence , that a Measure of that Holy Spirit , which was given to every one to profit with , was their Rule , and therefore ought to be , our great Rule and Guide , in all things relating to Faith and Worship . And let it be remembred , that Christ promised to send the Spirit of Truth to lead into all Truth ; as much as to say , none are led into the Truth , nor in the Truth , but by the holy Spirit of Truth ; or that their Practice is a Ly , or they are led into a Ly , who are not led by the Spirit of Truth , that alone leads into all the Wayes of Truth : where by Truth , is not to be understood the meer Letter of the Scripture , which notwithstanding is True , but the Living , Powerful Truth ; Christ the Way , the Truth , and the Life , of which the Scripture is but a Record , or Declaration : Many may run into a Practice of several Outward Things mentioned in the Scriptures to have been the Practices of the Saints of former Ages , and yet , not be led into the Truth ; for all that is but Will-Worship , Imitation and Unwarrantable . To be led into the Truth , is to be led into God's Living Power , Wisdom and Righteousness , whose Fruits are Peace and Assurance for ever ; This is the Truth , the Spirit leads and is all-sufficient to .

Certainly , Christ , intended This for the Great Evangelical Leader , Rule , Judge , Law-giver and Guide through the whole course of Regeneration , the only Way into the Everlasting Kingdom . And all those who are not by this Holy Spirit prepared , moved and assisted to perform Divine Worship unto God , but run into that weighty Duty , or any other ( supposed ) Ordinance , without its pure Leadings , which makes it a Spiritual and Living Worship , they are but those anciently fore-told of , LORD , LORD-CRYERS , whose Portion shall be that dismal Depart from me , I know you not ; who has requir'd these things at your hands ? Let this therefore be a Warning unto all Professors in the Name of the Lord , that they run no longer Vnsent , nor think to be accepted for their many Words ; God regards the Heart that he has broken , and is made contrite before him , and which trembles at his Word ; 'T is not meer Worship , but that which is Spiritual , which he expects and accepts ; and to perform that , Man must Cease from his own Spirit , Strength , Strivings and Imitations , and become Dumb before the Lord , and as a Man dead to Self-Performance , and then will he breath into him the Spirit of Supplication , and raise him up in the Newness of his own Divine Life ; whereby ( though but in Sighs and Groans ) a Spiritual and most Acceptable Worship shall be offered unto God , in which his Soul will be well pleased , and every such one come to be refresht and establisht in Righteousness . For all Offerers and Vpholders of strange Fire , of what sort of People soever they may be , in the Great and Notable Day of the Lord God , will he cause to lie down in Sorrow .

And because he thinks his Advantage is not small , that he hath against us by basely inferring and aggravating such Consequences as this , What of Duty we neglect , we are to charge upon the Spirit 's not moving us to it ; or because we must not obey without a Motion , we are acquitted from all Fault till then , &c. Let me tell him , that he striketh himself , and not the Quakers ; For they hold , that God's Spirit ought to be daily waited for ; And that it is alwayes ready to inform and instruct Man's Soul , and to move it to those Thoughts , Words and Deeds , with respect to God and Man , as are Well-pleasing to the Almighty : For we do not only teach , that the Spirit of God is alwayes present to convince of Sin , but to lead out of it , and in that Way of holy Living , which is well-pleasing unto God . In short , God's Worship stands in the Spirit ; and I testifie from the Eternal God , all other Worship then what springs from a Mind touch'd , sanctify'd and mov'd of his holy quickning Spirit , is abominable to him ; His Righteous Soul loathes it : And what else were their Sacrifices , as theirs were , who in my hearing said , Pray Brother will you Pray ? No , Brother , I am not so well able as you are ; Let Brother such a one Pray , he is better gifted for the Work , &c. Complementing , Shifting , and at last Praying , &c. in their own Wills , and not in God's Motion — This God hates .

Next , Since the Pouring forth of the Spirit is the great Gospel Gift , and that the Children of God are to be led by it ; In what should we more diligently wait for its Heavenly Assistance , then in that part of our Duty , which we owe to God ? Is his Worship Spiritual , and can we perform it out of the Motion of his own Spirit ? For what then was his Spirit given ? Again , If Men should pray in a known Tongue , much more with the Spirit , as the Apostle speaks . No Wonder the Professors ask Pardon for their Prayers . Indeed God's Spirit gives them to see the Emptiness of their Righteousness , and condemns them for it , wherfore they are at times dissatisfy'd in them ; yet they will not learn of him , to be guided by him , who would cover them with Everlasting Righteousness . Blessed would they be , if their Minds were stayed in his Counsel : But instead thereof T.H. does as good as say , that if he should stay till the Spirit moved him , he might stay long enough ; rendring the Spirit Wanting in that for which he was shed abroad in the Heart : Because through his Enmity and Darkness , & hasty Running in his own Spirit , he feels it not to lead him : else he would never infer , from our Asserting the Necessity of the Spirit 's Moving to Right & Acceptable Worship , that we are acquitted from any Fault in omitting to do that which is Good , and the Blame must be laid upon the Spirit . But let me ask him , Can any Man do Good of himself ? Surely he will say , No. How then shall Man do that Good he ought to do , but by the Holy Ghost ? Canst thou call Jesus Lord by any other Power or Spirit ? Read the Scriptures . What greater Contradiction can there be , then to believe , Man of himself can do no Good ; and yet to say , he can do it without God's Spirit to incline and assist him thereunto ? But if the Spirit do not , what does ? Tell me , what can tender the Heart , prepare the Soul , raise the Affections , give true Feeling of Wants , and help to perform all in that Fear , Reverence and deep Sense ( which becomes all New Covenant , Spiritual Worshippers ) if this cannot , or do not ? Nay , what an Affront is it to God ; since it is to suppose , that Man wants him not , that his Spirit neither moves to Duty that ought to be performed , nor yet condemns for Duty omitted ? Behold the Impudence of the Man ! He talks of Gospel , Christ , the Mysteries of his Glorious Kingdom , &c. What grosser Opposer of the New Covenant can there be , who denies the very Life , Virtue and Soul of all true Gospel-Worship and Discipline ; and without which the otherwise best Christian-Church that ever was , would be worse then Legal ? For they that worship not from the Motions of God's Spirit , James 4.3 . offer strange Fire , set up their own Worship , and are Image Makers ; such ask , but they receive not , because they ask not aright . For if no Man can call Jesus Lord , but by the Holy Ghost ; no Man can pray to the Lord , or in his Name , without the Holy Ghost ; yet a Sigh or Groan from its holy Operation , that Sacrifice , though without Words , is manifold more engaging and effectual with the Lord , then the most excellent Performance of Man 's own Spirit . 'T is the Fear and Heavenly Sense of God in the Soul that recommends the Performance , and that the holy Spirit begets : And as the Minds of Men and Women are exercised in the Law of this pure and quickening Spirit , as it appears in them , they shall know the true Worship , which stands in Life and Power , whose End is Everlasting Peace ; when the LORD , LORD-CRYERS , that have Prayed and Preached in their own Wills and Wisdom , as well as to their own Ends and Advantages , Mat. 7.21 . shall be cast out forever , with a DEPART FROM ME YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY . But there is one Objection taken from my Book called , The Spirit of Alexander the Copper-Smith , &c. which he thinks , splits us irrecoverably . It runs thus ;

Either there is such a thing as a Christian-Church , or there is not ; if there be , Spir. of Alex. p. 9. then this Church either hath Power , or hath not ; If no Power , then no Church ; If a Body or a Church , then there must be a Power within it self to determine .

To which sayes Tho. Hicks ; For Christians to plead this , who own the Scriptures for their Rule , and not the meer Light within , Contin . p. 64. the Argument may safely be allowed ; But you cannot stand by this : For will you say , what a Man doth without an Inward Motion is accurst , and yet disown him for not doing what he is not moved unto ?

But though this be plausible , it is no more ; For the Difficulty remains , in Case the Scripture be admitted for the Rule ; for Instance : The Church unto which Tho. Hicks belongs own the Scripture to be the Rule : But suppose Tho. Hicks in some one Point believes the Scripture not to intend the same thing , the rest of the Church understand it to mean , as in Case of Free-Will ; I query how this Matter shall be reconciled ? They affirm the Scripture to be the Rule , and say , This is the true Sense of the Scripture ; Thomas Hicks also affirms the Scripture to be the Rule , but that his Sense is the Mind of the Scripture : This occurs almost daily among those who believe the Scripture to be the Rule of Faith . Now observe the Parallel .

The Quakers by the Light within them , as their Rule , judge that rude Imagination of keeping the Hat on in time of publick Prayer . The Anabaptists by the Scripture , as their Rule , censure Thomas Hicks for upholding a Contrary Sense to the Scripture . The Dissenter from the Quakers sayes , The Light ( which he calls his Rule ) manifests no such thing to him , nor doth he believe it to be the Mind of the Light to him . Thomas Hicks makes Answer to the Church , that by the Scripture he understands quite another thing ; and the Scripture is his Rule for what he sayes and maintains in the Matter .

I would ask any Man of Common Sence , if the Scripture is not as well set in Opposition to it self by these two Pretenders , as the Light within ? and if the Church of Anabaptists would not therefore doubt the Truth of their Interpretation , but proceed to censure Thomas Hicks as a Disturber of their Church in its Doctrine or Discipline by the Introduction of New and Unprofitable Opinions ? Neither are the Body of the Quakers to question their Judgment given by the Light within as their Rule , to be a true and unquestionable Determination against such Alexanders and Enemies to the Peace of their Jerusalem .

But I would further tell Thomas Hicks , that though we renounce all Worship not led to by God's Spirit ( his Reflection upon which , shewing it to be none of his Faith or Practice , and so no Spiritual Worshipper ) Yet the Men testified against in that Book were such as had been in Unity with us before , and in going from that into differing and opposite Practices , we imposed nothing upon them , but they innovated Vnseemly Customs upon us , so that which Thomas Hicks's Conscience had no Mind to observe , least he should loose the Force of his Cavil , removes it out of the Way .

Let Thomas Hicks tell me by what other Rule then God's Spirit , Men's Spirits , and the Inside of their Religion can be tryed , relisht , or favoured and he doth something . The Devil can transform into all Outward Forms , and subscribe the best Methodiz'd true Articles that ever were written ; Who , or what shall unmask him ? God gave us the true Taste , Savour and Discerning of that Spirit that leads out several from the Heavenly Unity , and from thence we gave our Judgment . If Men become darkn'd , and led by a Delusive Spirit and call that the Light , though it give the Lye to the Light , and strikes at the Life , they whilst faithful , felt among us , they must look to that . You say , Every Man ought to make the Scripture his Rule , some that say they do , you say do not ; do you think your Judgment the less valid ? By no means ; Neither do We. Will you not desist from censuring those that answer not the Scripture , though they fancy that they do ? Why may not we also by the Light of Christ judge those to be deluded , who notwithstanding pretend to be ruled by it ? Ye turn People to the Scripture , and they mistake it ; We direct People to the Light , but they mistake it : So that here is the Difference between our Saying , that Men should do nothing but what the Spirit requires ; and your Teaching , that Men ought to do nothing but what the Scripture requires . For if we disown them for not doing what we know the Spirit requires , you daily disown such as do not somethings you suppose the Scriptures do require : And as you think the Scripture to mean the same you ever did , notwithstanding your Opposers Suggestion , we are by you justified in mantaining our judgment against those Pretenders to the Guidance of the Light .

To conclude , I see no Difference between Tho. Hick's saying to me , William Penn , thou bidst me obey the Light within me , and because I do thou disownest me ; and my saying to him , Thomas Hicks , thou bidst me obey the Scriptures , and because I do thou censurest me . This d●ives unavoidably to an Infallible Spirit , whereby to savour all Spirits , Words and Works ; for the Anointing is Judge , and meer Pretenders weaken not its Judgment : And till Men come thither their best Duties are Unholy Things , indeed .

Let none fancy an Impossibility of Trying Spirits by that without which it is utterly impossible to try them . God's Spirit gives his Children to savour and discern Spiritual Bad , as well as Spiritual Good Things ; It is not unknown to such as are led by God's Spirit , of what Nature and to what Tendency such Words or Actions may be . It was on this alone , and upon no other Foundation , the Spiritual Gospel , Sound and Heavenly Fellowship stood of old ; for by One Spirit were the true Christians baptized into One Body .

O You that are Professors of Religion , who in dayes past , and years that are gone over your Head , Prayed loud and fervently for the Spirit , rise not up against it because it stains your Beauty , subjects your Wills , brings you out of Self , and overturns your dead Forms , where the Spirit of this World has had its Seat for Ages , and in a Mystery insnared and beguiled you ; But wait upon God in deep Silence to all Fleshly Conceivings , and Will-Worships , so shall you come to feel God's Pure & Quickening Spirit , to Inliven , Tender and Affect your Hearts ; in which State one Sigh or Groan is more Valuable , then Years of unprepared and unsanctified Will-Sacrifice .

The next thing aimed at in this Cavil , attended with so much Bitterness and rude Language , is this , that Thomas Hicks being desirous to represent the Quakers to greatest Disadvantage , takes not a little Pains to incense Parents , Magistrates and Masters against them , as Neglecters of all Lawful Commands , without an Immediate and Extraordinary Impulse to perform them .

Were we such Wretches , as he would render us , we should not deserve to live in Civil Societies . What I shall say in our Defence is briefly this .

1. The Quakers Principles and Practice have proved themselves consistent with Government , because they have encouraged to Good Life , Peace and Honest Industry . I shall not here seek an Eye for an Eye , nor tell any of those Black and Horrible Tragedies , that go up and down the World , under great Authors Atestations of the People called Anabaptists . No , I have more regard to the Sincere and Moderate among them ; though 't is a great Shame to the Profession that T.H. should be suffered among them , at least as a Teacher , after such Forged , Prophane and Abusive Trash , which lies more dangerously exposed to the Lash of Story then we do : But for this time I spare him ; yet if he proceeds on this wise against us , perhaps ●e may hear further of me ▪ and that People to whom he belongs , if they take not some other Course with him .

2. As to the Commands of Parents I have this to say , and that by good Experience of more then one , That those who have had Children of our Way , though with great Disquiet , and not a little Displeasure and Severity against them at the first , they have left the World with this Testimony of their Children , they never disobeyed them , but for Conscience sake , and from Threatning them with the Loss of all , have become so Affectionate towards them , and Confident in them , as to entrust them with the Whole of their Worldly Substance . 'T is true , here and there a Crooked , Perverse Professor , whose Husbands , Wives , Children or Servants convinced , have the worst of Lives , through their extream Opposition , and Watching for Evil , may perhaps have spy'd an Indiscretion , which , though against his own Blood or Family , his Enmity has aggravated to an Heinous Offence , and then it must be given for a Demonstration of the Erroneousness of the Quakers Way . But how Just , Natural or Conscientious such Proceeding is against such Dissenting Relations , or the People they associate with , let all Impartial Persons judge . This is not doing as they would be dealt by ; Liberty of Conscience ! Tyranny , and Egyptian Oppressions . I ask , Would the Anabaptists be thus served concerning their own Proselytes ? Did they never any of them suffer from their Parents ? And have not their Parents complained of them ? And has that been taken by their Church alwayes for sufficient Proof ?

And for the Story of the Woman that went rambling from her Family and Husband , Contin . p. 63 , 69. bidding him take another Woman , &c. with some pretending Revelations to refuse just Debts , I shall say no more but thus , We know of no such things , and believe them to be downright Lyes , as others that are gone before them ; However , should they be as true , as we hope they are false , we can but judge them , and that we do , by the Light of Christ Jesus to the Pit forever . But if we should take this Course , of proving the Anabaptists those vile Impostors , he doth call and pretend to prove the Poor Despised Quakers to be , p. 69. How many Miscarriages might we collect and publish against the People that are called by that Name : but we do not desire that Prophanists should have any such Theames from us , to sport their Unclean Minds upon , notwithstanding Thomas Hicks's Liberality to them : Is it not then wickedly done in him , to tell us in the same page , That if a Miscarriage be , it is improved by us to make the Truth Odious , who without such Arguments and his own Forgery , would in Truth have nothing against us ? But truly it is very hard , that we should suffer , as we have done , for the Miscarriages of other Parties , and yet receive these gross Abuses at their hands : But our Eye is to the Lord , and our Innocent Suffering Cause will he plead in his own time , whose Will be done by us , and that will be our Everlasting Rejoycing .

3. For Masters , I must speak my own Experience ; many have desired to retain us , and great Trusts have been reposed in us . To whom were we False ? Of whose Service were we Negligent ? When did any of us say , I am not moved to do this or that , when so required thereto ? Shall a Lying Dialogue be Demonstration enough to prove us what so invective an Adversary would have People believe us to be ? We do declare to all , that the Light whereby we are enlightned , alwayes commands and strictly enjoyns us Duty , Obedience , Love , Peace , Gentleness , Faithfulness , Industry , Holy Living ; And whatever is supposed to the Contrary , we disclaim it in the Fear and Name of the Righteous God of Heaven and Earth to be no Product of our Holy Principle .

I shall now attend his Cavils about the Ministry , and give a short Taste of the Rancour of his Spirit therein . He asks , What is the True Ministry ? Comin . pag. 65 , 66 , 67. To which he maketh G.W. answer . Quak. In the New Covenant God is the Teacher of his People himself immediately , by his Immediate Spirit , Power and Unction , Christ Ascended , p. 64. Christ . If so , wherefore were Apostles , Prophets , Evangelists , Pastors Teachers , &c. giver , and set in the Church for the Work of the Ministry ? And why do you set up one among your selves , and appoint Ministers before-hand to speak in such a place , and at such a time . From whence I plainly collect thus much .

1. That T.H. in so many words denyes God's Immediate Teaching by his Spirit , Power and Vnction under the Gospel ; And in that one Expression strikes out , what in him lies , the whole Pourings out of the Holy Ghost , the great Promise of the Father ; being led by the Spirit ; no more I , but Christ that liveth in me ; the Tabernacle of God is with Men , and he will dwell with them ; the Anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you , and ye need not that any Man teach you , or you need not Man's Teaching , &c. In short , the very Dispensation of the Gospel , which is a State of Power and Life immediately received of God , is denyed by him .

2. That in acknowledging such Officers to continue in the Church , he must confess to their Qualifications , or he does nothing . Now , that which qualified them was the Receiving of the Holy Ghost , and those Heavenly Gifts by it , which were necessary for the Discharge of those respective Services in the Church . By this it appears , that either Thomas Hicks must now yield to Preaching and Praying by the Motion of the Holy Spirit , or in opposing of it , acknowledge to his own Contradiction , that there are no such Apostles , Prophets , &c. ( who ministred to the Church , as any thing was revealed to them , the great Evangelical Qualification to the Ministry ) in our dayes .

3. But why should Tho. Hicks therefore degrade the Dispensation because the People are not yet fitted to It ; or oppose the Means used to b●ing them to It , to the End for which the Means are employ'd ; Besides , is it Man's Teaching , or Christ by and through Man ? God was in Christ ; and Christ in his Ministers reconciling the World unto himself , that he might be the Immediate Priest , Prophet and King to the Souls of People . Might not the same Objection be more colourably made against the Apostle John , who at that time wherein the Churches were so weak , 1 John . 2.27 . and the Means so many , and lately establish't , said unto them , But the Anointing which ye have receiv'd of him abideth in you , and ye need not that any Man teach you , but as the same Anointing teacheth you of all things , and is Truth , and is no Lye ; And even as it hath taught you , ye shall abide in him : Where he is so far from meer Man's Teaching ( T. Hicks's only Teaching ) that by his words one would think , the Churches to whome he wrote , had as well been gathered without Means , as that he admonished them to abide in that holy Unction , as Sufficient to their Instruction and Comfort : Therefore let him go ask the Apostle John , why Men were to attend upon the holy Anointing as Sufficient ; not withstanding thos● Means then provided ? And the Answer to that Question will be ours . But here is the Darkness of the Man from our denying of empty Vnauthoriz'd Imitations he infers our Denyal of such Means as God's Power uses ; and from out Using such Means to our Contradicting our selves , and Immediate Teaching : and because we use Means in God's Power , to bring People to God , the Judge of all , that he may be their Judge and Law-giver , and that from his Immediate Hand they may receive Wisdom , Knowledge and Comfort , he ignorantly concludes that Men , where they are , ought not to have Means us'd to bring them to this Blessed State ; but that God should Immediately teach them there .

4. I charge him with another Lye , in saying that we appoint Ministers before hand to speak in such a a place , at such a time , Ibid. and much less that the End of our Meeting is to decoy , trapan and inveagle others , as he scoffingly and falsly insinuates . We deny the Suggestion , and renounce and judge such Practices by that pure Spirit that hath otherwise taught us ; God preserve us from that dry , Hireling Custom , and Practice of Tho. Hicks , who will avenge our Cause upon the Head of this Ungodly Slanderer . But he thinks he has uterly foyled us in his Representation ( indeed Perversion ) of our Belief about the Seed , which though spoken to some distance before , yet I am willing to say something to it , least it be taken for granted , and his scurvy Names accounted due Titles to such miserable Wretches as he endeavours to render us . The Objection entirely is this .

You say , that the Work of the Ministry is to point People to this Seed ; That to the Carnal Mind , which rules in any , the Commands of Christ are not given ; And that the Spirit not only manifesteth the Promises , but exerciseth Faith in , and fulfils them ; out of E.B. G.K. G.W. p. 106. ●m . Rev. p 77 , 78. Chr. Asc . p. 10. Query Is ●othi●g else taught but this Seed , then your Min●stry is only God Preaching to Himself ? &c. Will you 〈◊〉 of Infallibility , and Talk like Mad-Men ? YOU ARE IMPLACABLE ENEMIES TO THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION ; MEN INSPIRED BY SATAN , AND AS VILE IMPOSTORS AS EVER WERE . Here stop a while .

Certainly , Reader , No Man was ever given up to a Spirit of greater Injustice , Dishonesty and bitter Rage against any People then T. Hicks seems to be against us : He does not so much prove us Bad , as he would make us so , that he may cover his Wickedness against us . What false Doctrine is it , to preach People to the Seed God has sown , in which is Virtue , Life and Power , to bring forth blessed Fruits to God ? To suggest from thence , that there is nothing to be taught but the Seed , is great Darkness and Prejudice ; For the Ministry is not to teach the Seed , but to bring down , and humble the Mind of Man to it , that the Mind may be taught , and the Seed delivered from under the Pressure of Sin and Ignorance . Strange Contradiction , that the Seed should be sown in Man for its own Salvation , and not for Man's ! What but Wickedness it self could thus write of us ?

And that the Carnal Mind receives not the Things of God , because it perceives them not , is according to Scripture , if not according to Tho. Hicks . But it is not the first time by many , that Scripture in a Quaker's Book has been given under that Name , for gross Error and Delusion . That the Spirit manifests the Promises , exerciseth Faith in , and fulfils them , cannot be False Doctrine , if it be allowed to give a true Understanding of them , and if it gives to exercise Faith in them , and finally , to accomplish or fulfil them . But his Insinuation lies here , that the Spirit of God is that which believes in God , and exercises Faith for it self in God , which was never G. W's Intent . But as I have said , the Spirit is that only which gives us Faith , and exerciseth that Faith it gives in the Promises of God , which are Yea and Amen in that Seed , the Quakers preach People to believe and grow in ; for which T. Hicks is pleased to call us Praters , Canters , Enthusiasts , Mad Men , Idle , Non-sensical , Blasphemous , Inspired of Satan , and as Vile Impostors as ever were , &c. For which God Almighty rebuke his Envious , Enraged and Unclean Spirit .

CHAP. XII .

Of Resurrection and Rewards .

THe last great Doctrine he insinuates our Denial of , is that of the Resurrection from the Dead . Dialog. p. 57. That which he brings under the Quaker's Name , as a sufficient Proof for that Suggestion I shall relate , that every Impartial Reader may be satisfied of the Man's Inconsistency with sound Doctrine , as well as the Common Justice of Doing as he would be done by .

In Answer to his Questions about the Resurrection of the same Carnal Body that Dyes , he brings in G. Whitehead thus :

Q. Is it not written , Thou Fool , that which thou sowest is not the Body which shall be , but God gives a Body as pleaseth him ?

Thus ( saith Tho. Hicks ) Whitehead replied ; and G. Fox the Younger speaks to the same purpose . Two Fools that say , This Body of Natural Flesh and Bones shall rise . I say , The Body which is sown , is not the Body which shall be . I query , ( saith he ) Whether both these Persons do not tacitly deny the Resurrection of the Body ?

Now that T.H. hath shown himself at once Dishonest and Erroneous too ; Let it be observed , 1. That from our Denyal of the Resurrection of the same Natural , Fleshly Body , he absolutely infers and concludes our Denyal of the Resurrection of the Body in any Sense ; which is great Injustice to any Adversary . 2. Let it be well observed , that he makes the Scripture it self to deny the Resurrection , and so Heterodox , by Accounting G. Whitehead and G. Fox their Answers in Scripture-Language , to be a Denyal of the Resurrection : For if Thomas Hicks does not intend by his Arguing , That the same Body that dyed , without any Mutation shall rise again , what makes him to quarrel the Apostle Paul's saying . Thou Fool , that which thou sowest is not the Body which shall be ; and repute us Hereticks for believing him ?

Certainly his gross Belief of the Resurrection is inconsistent with Scripture , Reason , and the Belief of all Men right in their Wits in the Point . Who can have the Confidence to call the Scripture his Rule , and yet Contradict it so egregiously , as when the Apostle tells us , It is not the same Body that is sown that shall be , to assert , that it is the same Body , and that who sayes the Contrary , denies the Resurrection of the Dead , and Eternal Recompence ? In short , We do acknowledge a Resurrection in order to Eternal Recompence , and that every Seed shall have its own Body , and rest contented with what Body it shall please God to give us ; But as we are not such Fools as curiously to enquire What ? so must we forever deny the gross Conceits of T.H. and his Adherents concerning the Resurrection .

But Tho. Hicks would have us believe , that the Apostle said Thou Fool , to him that denyed , and not him that owned the Resurrection ; But he must excuse us if we refuse to Credit him ; for it was not , Whether every Seed should rise with its own Body , or that Bodies should rise ; but , as taking that for granted , the Question was , What Bodies they should be ? So that T●ou Fool is most due to T. Hicks and his Associates , who are not with us , satisfied to leave all with the Lord , but intrude and query , What Bodies shall rise ? Wherefore no Answer can be more proper to him then , Thou Fool ( Thomas Hicks ) That which thou sowest is n●t the Body that shall be .

But he thinks he is not without Reason ; For , sayes he , Dialog. p. 58. If the It in the Text be not the same Body , how can that be called a Resurrection ; for that supposeth the same ?

I Answer , If a thing can yet be the same , and notwithstanding changed , for Shame let us never make so much Stir against the Doctrine of Transsubstantiation ; for the Absurdity of that is rather out-done , then equalled by this Carnal Resurrection .

The Papists say , That the Bread and Wine after Consecration are very Christ , though the Accidents remain . Tho. Hicks , and abundance of that sort of Men hold , That Man's Body in the Resurrection is the same with that Carnal Body buried , and yet that it is changed to a Spiritual Body : How it is possible that It should be the same , and not the same ? How that Body , and yet , as the Apostle sayes , Thou sowest not that Body that shall be , is very hard to reconcile .

And truly , that which yet is very strange , Those Three Scriptures peculiarly cited in Defence of his gross Conceit of the R●surrection , are either relative of another Matter , or directly opposite to , and inconsistent with his Assertion .

1. And this Mortal shall put on Immortality , Dialog. Ibid. this Corruptible shall put on Incorruption , 1 Cor , 15.53 .

I grant that this implies a Change ; but I deny , that it so much as intimates , that Men shall rise with those very Carnal Bodies that were buried . No , the Apostle not only tells us , that the Body sown is not the Body that shall be , but that Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God , vers. 50. If the Flesh and Blood be transmuted , or changed into no Flesh and Blood , I query ( and I think I may do it safely too ) Whether It be the same Flesh and Blood that is changed into no Flesh and Blood , that is the Body raised ? O Absurd , Dark and Carnal Man !

Nor am I afraid to tell him , that the Scripture cannot rationally be taken strictly , as translated ( neither ought many more ) for there are certain Figures , Modes and Wayes proper to that Language in which this Epistle was written , which are to be understood with Allowances ; for how can the Mortal ( taken for Mortality , and not him who in part is Mortal ) put on Immortality ; It is Impossible . Can Mortality be cloathed with Immortality ? then it seems that Mortality is the Person , and Immortality the Garment . If Thomas Hicks should tell me , No ; it is meant that the Mortal Body should be changed into an Immortal Body , it follows that he is gone from the Letter of the Text into an Interpretation , as well as that it contradicts his absurd Identity or Sameness of Body : If so , it is as Lawful for me ( and more , if in the Right ) to construe It thus , That we , who are Mortals respecting our Bodies , put off the Mortal Part , and put on instead thereof Immortality ; 2 Cor. 5.1 . suitable to that weighty Passage of the Apostle Paul , For We know that if our Earthly House of this Tabernacle were dissolved , we have a Building of God , an House not made with Hands , Eternal in Heavens ; which as directly concludes the Charge , not of Accidents , but Bodies , from an Earthly House or Tabernacle , to an Heavenly House or Building , as ever any thing can be spoken by Men or Angels .

To conclude , Since Mortality can not properly put on Immortality , but Man that is cloathed with Mortality , may put off or exchange Mortality for Immortality , because otherwise Mortality would have Immortality for its Garment ; a thing impossible and absurd ; I do infer that this place yields no Strength at all to Thomas Hicks's gross Apprehension of the Resurrection .

2. His next Scripture is that in the Romans , But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the Dead , Rom. 8.11 . dwell in you , he that rais'd up Christ from the Dead , shall also quicken your Mortal Bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you .

But this is nothing to T. H's Purpose in the least ; For the Apostle treats not here of the Resurrection of Dead Carnal Bodies in our Adversary's Sence , as the whole Chapter seriously read proves ; but of the Inward Work of the Spirit , in order to the making Man's Body a fit Temple for the holy Ghost to dwell in , as he writ to the Corrinthians .

3. The third place he brings , is out of the Epistle Paul , writ to the Philippians : He shall change our Vile Bodies : Upon which he say●s , This cannot be meant of a New-created Bod● , because such a Body cannot be said to be either Vile or Changed .

But what makes this for his Conceit ? Surely nothing ; For if the Vile Body he changed , then it is not that Vile Body ; therefore not the same Body . Again to say that Scripture can't be meant of a New-Created Body , because such one can't be said to be either Vile or Changed , makes much against him : For 1. It is to say that the Body that shall be , is Vile , else what means his Saying Because such a Body cannot be said TO BE ( not to have been ) either Vile or Changed . 2. Though the Body That shall be , may not be said to be either Vile or Changed , yet it may be given of God in lieu of a Vile Body , and so the Vile Body Changed for one that is Glorious . It was either Ignorantly or Sophistically done in Thomas Hicks to imply . That Body that shall be , could not be said to be Changed , since the Change lies on the side of the Vile Body , that is exchanged for a more Glorious Body ; Therefore all along we must conclude , it is not the same , but another Body . But how Disingenuous is Tho Hicks to repute G. W's Answer in the Apostle's Words , a pressing the Metaphor too far , and yet by so doing , runs himself into this Dark Imagination of a Fleshly Resurrection .

But Tho. Hicks thinks , The Joyes of Heaven Imperfect else .

I Answer ; Is the Joy of the Ancients now in Glory Imperfect ? or are they in Heaven but by halfes ? If it be so Unequitable that the Body which hath suffered should not partake of the Joyes Celestial ; Is it not in measure Unequal that the Soul should be rewarded so long before the Body ?

This Principle brings to the Mortality of the Soul ( held by many Baptists ) or I am mistaken : But why must the Felicity of the Soul depend upon that of the Body ? Is it not to make the Soul a kind of Widdow , and so in a State of Mourning and Disconsolateness , to be without its Beloved Body ? which State is but a better sort of Purgatory . See T.V. and T.D.

What made the Apostle willing to be absent from the Body , 2 Cor. 5.8 , 9. that he might be present with the Lord , if such a Dissolution brought Sadness instead of Joy , as our Adversaries in the Point of the Resurrection suggest , if not boldly affirm ? In short , If the compleat Happiness of the Soul rests in a Re-union to a Carnal Body , for such it is sown , then never cry out upon the Turks Alcoran ; for such a Heaven and the Joyes of it , suite admirably well with such a Resurrection . The Reasons I have to give against this Barbarous Conceit , I thus Contract .

1. Because that the Scripture speaks of a Dissolution and no Resurrection of that which is dissolved , being Earthly , and Unfit for a Celestial Paradice ; and therefore holds forth a Building of God , and House Eternal in the Heavens .

2. If the Body be the same , it must have the same Nature , otherwise not the same Body : But if it have the same Nature , it will be Corruptible still : Mortal Seeds bring forth Mortal Natures , not Immortal ; Neither can Mortal be Immortal , and yet the same Nature as before ; for that Change made , tell me , What remains of the Old Earthly Body ?

3. It makes the Soul Uncapable of Compleat Happiness without a Fleshly Body , as if Heaven were an Earthly Place to see , walk in , and all our Outward Senses to be enjoyed and exercised , as in this World , though in an higher Degree ; which I call Mahometism : For what Spiritual Happiness the Body now can have , respecting God , is derived through the Soul to the Body , and not through the Body to the Soul . Besides , if so great a Change or Alteration pass upon the Body , how is it that Carnal and Sensible Body that suffered ? And how can that same Body be equally sensible of Celestial Delights ? for the Flesh & Blood that suffered is not to enter God's Kingdom ; and if that very same Carnal Body enter not , which sustained any part of the Tribulations , the great Knot is broken , and our Adversary's strongest , if not only Plea , is rendred Invalid : For if the same Natural Body , Parts and Senses , consisting of Living Flesh , Blood and Bones , that suffered and dyed , rise not , another is given in which the Children of the Resurrection ( who have suffered in the Flesh ) have their Recompence : and if they do so strictly rise as they dyed , then every Man is to rise Married , Low , High , Fat , Lean , Young , Old , Homely , Handsom , and according to former Complexion and Sex : And which is yet more Unreasonable , This Body is to be Vncorruptible , Immortal , Spiritual , Fashioned like Christ's Glorious Body , and as the Angels of God . May our Adversary blush at these Dark Imaginations but here toucht upon , because more largely handled else-where ? Only I cannot but signifie , that this Sort of Resurrection pleaded for , is renowned by some Baptists , and several other more Clear-sighted Professors .

For our Parts , A Resurrection we believe , and of Bodies to , unto Eternal Life . What they shall not be , I have briefly said and proved ; What they shall be we leave with God , who will give every one a Body as pleaseth him , and THOU FOOL , belongs to the Unnecessary Medler .

CHAP. XIII .

A Collection of some of T. Hicks's many CONTRADICTIONS , PERVERSIONS , LYES , FORGERIE● , RAILINGS , and SCOFFS at WITNESSING ; from all which he is proved to be neither a True Christian , nor a True Man .

His CONTRADICTIONS .

Argument I. HE that Contradicts Himself , is not led by Gods Spirit , & consequently no Child of God , nor certain of their own Faith ; but so doth T. Hicks ; therefore No Christian Man .

He tells us , That the true Light hath enlightned every Man , from John 1. and that it ought to be attended upon , making the Light to be distinct from the Soul , and not the Soul . Dial. 7 , 22. In Contradiction to which he makes this Light to be but a part of the Soul , by which he falls into the same Confusion he falsly would fasten upon us , namely . That if the Soul ought to obey the Light , it would obey It self , which is absurd and cannot be , Dial. p. 14 , 32. 2. He acknowledges , That the Light checketh within for many Evils , and exciteth to many Good Things , and that he ought to shun those Evils , and do that Good , p 8. In short , That Christ is the Light and Life of Men , p. 22. Yet he dares to tell us , that this Light , in directing to its best Actions , swelleth Men but with Proud Conceits , & that it doth deceive & misguide such as follow it , p. 3 , & 37. 3. But I do , and must bear witness against thy Erroneous Opinion , if true to the Light in me , p. 8. I am to do what the Light in my self directs me , and herein is my Comfort . p. 91. Again , Where a Rule is , there must be Light in the Subject , yielding Obedience ; otherwise no Reasonable and Acceptable Service , p. 14. I grant it ought to be obeyed , p. 7. To Vnsay , which he assures us , as his Judgment at least , That the Light is Uncertain ; In one Man it teaches one thing , in another the directly contrary ; so that ( sa●es he ) there can be no certainty of Truth or Error , SIN or DUTY BY THIS . Again , He sayes , that 't is no Disparagement to the Lightin with , to say , that God doth make any thing more known of his Will then is , or can be known by it ; for 't is but to say , that each DEGREE OF LIGHT is serviceable to its End , p. 36. In direct Vndervalue of , and Opposition to which he tells us , within 2 Pages after , that the Improvement of the Light within subverts the Covenant of Grace , the only Way God hath revealed for Salvation ; And that it directly opposeth it self to the Ends of the Covenant , and ought to be Rejected , p. 38.

From all which it is very observable , 1. First , That the Light is Christ's Light . 2. That it ought to be Obeyed . 3. that it is not a Distinct Light from a Gospel Light , but in DEGREE only , and Consequently One and the same Light ; therefore Saving in its Nature . But in Contradiction to all this he sayes , 1. That it is part of the Soul . 2. That it will Misguide and Deceive . 3. That it is Repugnant to the Ends of the Covenant of Grace , and ought to be Rejected . These are a few of his very many Self Oppositions . Now if this be to argue safely , prudently , and like a Disputant , I am greatly mistaken : sure I am there is nothing of Truth or Christianity in such Confusion . For that Man should be oblieged to obey a Light that does misguide , or that Tho. Hicks should talk of A●●ing according to the Light in him , making his Appeal thereto in others ; and yet suggest that it may deceive and oppose the very Ends of the Covenant of Grace , is with me the Top of all Impudence , and Self Contradiction .

Of the Quakers PRINCIPLES And Tho. Hick 's PERVERSIONS .

Arg. II. Who Perverts and Misrepresents another Man's Principles , acts not like a True Christian-Man ; but such is T. Hicks , therefore no Christian-Man .

1. Because we hold , Christ is God , & God the Light , and that all Men are enlightned by him ; He concludes , that every Man comprehends whole God , and whole Christ . Dial. p. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. 2. Because we assert it to be sufficient to save all from Sin , who are led by it , and walk in it ; He concludes from the Ignorance and Wickedness of those that have it tendered to them , but obey it not , that the Light is Ignorant , Weak and Deceivable , Ibid. p , 10 , 32 , 33 , 34 3. From our Belief in the Light 's Sufficiency to Save , as that which was and is given of God for Salvation , to as many as bring their Deeds to it , and are translated by it . He infers , That all other Means are needless , not considering it was not the Light 's Insufficiency , but Man's Weakness , that has necessitated the great Light to make use of External Means to bring mens Minds from wandring abroad to the Inward Light , which is the Just Man's Path , Ibid. 12.36 , 37. 4. From our making the Illumination in Man to be a Natural Emanation , or Product of the Divine Word which made all things . He wickedly turns it to an Effect of God's Power , and so would by that Argument make the Trees , &c. also Divine , Ibid. p. 3 , 4. 5. From our asserting that Christ shineth by his Light in the Heart of every Wicked Man , as well as every Good Man . He tells People , that we hold Christ to be in every Wicked Man , as he is in his Saints ; Cont. p. 45 , 46. though such Vngodly Persons partake not of his Holy Life and Power , neither are subject unto his Government . 6. From our affirming God's Promise made good , that he would be the Teacher of his People ; and Directing People to God's Light in them , as the Gospel-Instruction to the Way of Life . He wickedly infers against us , yet as our Meaning , that we deny all Ministry , all Visible Worship , &c. though they stand in God's Power and Spirit ; Dial. p. 41 , 43 A thing never believed nor intended . 7. When we speak of Christ's Manhood , or Christ's , Visible Appearance , and when we speak of his Eternal Godhead , or as he is now to his Saints & People , saying , he was never as such , Visible to Wicked Men. He is not ashamed to tell the World in our Name , that Christ was never Visible to Wicked Men , as to that Bodily Appearance , and therefore that we deny any such Appearance at all . Cont. p. 37 , 40 , 41. 8. From our Believing Christ to be in his People , according to express Scripture , and our asserting that as such , he is Crucified by Wicked Men. He infers , that we deny Christ to be as well without , as within ; not that he was ever Crucified in the Flesh , Dial. p. 44. Oh Wicked Man ! 9. From our Denyal of their rigid Satisfaction , that is , that Christ was punished by his Father for our Sin ; and that Sins past , present and to come , are answer'd for ; and that Men may be Holy in Christ , by Virtue thereof , whilst not New , but Old Creatures , and so Unholy in themselves , their Consciences not being Purged from dead Works ; He unworthily concludes , that we disown Christ's Death and Sufferings as a Propitiation , that his Body was an Offering for Sin ; that he bore the Weight of the Iniquity of the whole World , that he carry'd away sins past , & sealed Remission in his Blood to as many as believe ; and that we expect to be both forgiven and accepted , not for Christ's sake , nor in his Sacrifice and Righteousness , but our own Works , Dial. p. 9 , 10. Cont. 48 , 49 , 50 ▪ 51 , 52 , 53. All which is an horrid Abuse of us . 10. From our asserting that the End of Christ's Coming to be not only the Forgivenes of Sin past upon Repentance , but the finishing of Transgression in the Creature by the Operation of his Power in his Inward and Spiritual Appearance ; He Wickedly infers , that we make his Visible Appearance of no Value , and deny the End of Christ's Sufferings . Dial. p. 10. Cont. p. 50 , 51 , 52 , 53 , 44 , 55. 11. Because we say that Men are not accepted of God , but upon the Inward Work of the Holy Spirit in the Soul , as to daily Comunion with God : And that there is not another Way to be saved from Sin present and to come , then by Christ's Inward Manifestation and Operation ; He Insinuateth as our Faith , that we purchase our Forgiveness by our own Good Works , and not that Christ was Gods Propitiation , by whom Remission of Sins past came ; which is the meer Love and Mercy of God , declared then by him in the World more eminently , and now by the Light in the Conscience , to all that Repent . Ibid. p. 51 , 52 , 53. 12. Becauce we make Obedience a Condition to Salvation ; He would have People believe , that we make it the Meritorious Cause , and so Papists , Dial. p. 2 , 63. 13. Because we say that Christ is but our Example in his abiding in the Father's Love by keeping his Commandments ; So Wicked is he as to conclude , that we believe Christ to be in ALL THINGS BUT AN EXAMPLE . Ibid. p. 54. Behold this Wickedness ! 14. From our pleading for a Perfection from Sin , and a Growth to the Measure of the Fulness of the Stature of Christ in this Life . He confidently infers our Denial of a Perfection in D●g●●es , and our Belief of as high a State of Perfection of Glory in this World , as hereafter . Dial. p. 48 , 49 , 50 , 51. 15. From our asserting True Rejoycing to be the Result of God's Work in Man , and Man's Conformity to him , and what Man sows he reaps . This Person basely infers our utter Denial of any Cause of Rejoycing from what Christ had done for us , when bodily in the World , or by his Righteousness now in us , Ibid. p. 53. 16. Because we say , that such Works as are wrought by the Holy Spirit in us , are necessary to Eternal Life , and may in a sense be said to obtain it ; since the Lord hath so freely offered it upon the condition of Believing & Obeying , the Fruits of the Spirit of God in Man . He wickedly suggests in our Name , that we expect to Merit Eternal Life by Good Works , and those of our own working , as the Spider Weaves his Webb out of his own Bowels Thus does he pervert and misconstrue our pure Faith . Dial. p. 38. Cont. p. 51 , 52. 17. Because we say all True , Spiritual Liberty stands in God's Power , that loses from Satan's Snares . He unrighteously infers , That who are not of our Way , should have no Liberty . Cont. p. 87. O Impious Man ! God will reckon for these things with thee . 18. From our asserting that the Breath of Life , which came from God , by which Adam became a Living Soul to God , was something of God himself . That he may keep his old Wont , he falsly renders it as our Meaning that the Soul is a part of God ; and then fastens all his hideous Consequences Dishonestly upon us . Dial. p. 45 , 46. 19. From our Preaching the Redemption of the Seed from under the Weight and grievous Pressures of Sin , and calling it the Lost Groat , and Pearl in the Field , &c. He dares to give it as our Faith , that we believe that Holy Seed to be in a Lost , Undone or Polluted State , Dial. p. 47 Cont. p. 49. then which what can be more Wicked ? 20. Because we say the Scriptures are not the great Gospel-Rule but the Spirit , because the Dispensation of the Spirit is that of the Gospel more peculiarly , and that without it we cannot understand , or savingly believe any thing declared of in the Scripture ; and therefore that it is our Rule for believing the Scriptures themselves ; He basely suggests , that the Quakers cast off all Precepts in the Scriptures , and will not bound either their Doctrines or Lives thereby , & so will not b●ing their Cheats & Impostures to the Test thereof , counting them of no more Authority THEN ESOPS FABLES . Dial. p. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 30 , 31 , 32 , 33 , 34 , 35 , 36. Cont. Epist. to the Reader . Behold your Anabaptist Preacher ! Indeed an Vngodly Wrester to his own Destruction . 21. From our asserting , that what was a Commandment to any Servant of God in old times , is not so to us , because so to them ; that is , such as going to Pharaoh , going Naked , going to the Kings Chappel , as Moses , Isaiah and Amos did ; as also those Elementary Types , Shadows and Figures appointed for a Season , and to pass off , That such are not Commandments to us unless required by the same Spirit anew ; It is not a little his Endeavour Vnrighteously to infer , that those Moral , Perpetual , and Eternal , Holy Precepts thou shalt have no other God but me ; thou shalt not Murder ; thou shalt not commit Adultery ; thou shalt not Steal ; thou shalt not bear False Witness , &c. are not binding upon us : But that we give our selves the loose of such horrid Principles , as the contrary ; and are therefore inconsistent with Civil Government , Cont. pag. 59 , 60. As if that Eternal , Holy , Omnipresent Light , with which we are enlightned , did not continually declare and require these Just and Righteous Things at our hands . God rebuke him . 22. From our Use of the Scripture , and a Ministry with such like Means , though by the Assistance and Leadings of the Eternal Spirit , & for this End , that all may come by them , as Helps , to the Life and Power it self ; the great End of all External Means ; He would insinuate the Insufficiency of the Light , and does prefer the very Beggarly Elements of the Jewish Religion before it , which holds as well against God , Christ and his Power , Grace and holy Spirit , because the like Means are used notwithstanding to reclaim and restore Men to a State of Happiness ; but if that were Wicked , what can his Reflection be upon the Light ? Dial. p. 37 , 41 , 42 , 49 , 23. Because we say that no Man can rightly worship God , without the Preparation & Motion of his holy Spirit , which we daily wait to feel , and accordingly are prepared & drawn forth to worship the Lord , whether in publick or private ; for we never sought his Face in vain . This Envious Man suggests , that we never wait to be so prepared or moved ; But if the Spirit of God compels us not , God must go without his Worship , and not blame them , with such like ; making as if the Spirit were as far off , as he would have Christ ; and that to stay till Men were mov'd , were never to worship : which sufficiently shews his Ignorance of that Spirit , whose alone Leadings make a Child of God , as well as the Wicked Vse he makes of that Holy and Christian Practice , Cont. p. 60 61. 24. From our asserting , that every Man ought to be convinc'd of what he does , and that by the Light in him , as his Rule of Faith & Duty , before he sets about to do or perform it . He insinuates , the Impossibility of our Renouncing and Rejecting any tenacious Disputer about unprofitable Questions , that may go out from us as a Religious Society , because such Person or Persons , may plead the Light within for it , Cont. p. 64 , 65. As if they might not as well plead the Scripture too , upon his Belief of a Rule , and give him the same Difficulty ? Must every one use the Scripture right that pretends to it as their Rule ? If not , then why may not several pretend to the Guidance of the Light , for that which the Light really condemns . 25. From our denying the Resurrection of the Natural and Corruptible Body , and leaving it with the Lord to give us a Body as pleaseth him , This Caviller and Foolish Intruder into Sacred Mysteries , endeavours to possess People with our being Shufflers about , & Denyers of the Resurrection of any Body to Life Eternal , however Spiritual or Glorified , Dial. p. 56 , 57 , 58 , 59 , 60 , 61 , 62. 26. And from our asserting the Unity of God and the Soul , and our Denyal of their Carnal Resurrection , He blindly concludes , that the Soul is part of God , and so no future Rewards or Punishments at all to be expected by any . Dial. p. 16 , 17.

Thus much to give the World a Taste of the Man's Spirit . He that can thus far believe him to be an Honest Man , ought to be condemned for great Ignorance and Inhonesty . God that made Heaven and Earth , will Recompense it into his Bosom with a Vengeance , if he Repent not .

A Collection of a Few of his Many GREAT LYES .

Arg. III. He that Lyes is not of God ; but Thomas Hicks is a Lyar ; therefore not of God , then no Christian .

1. First , That our owning of Christ Jesus is indeed no other then A MEER MYSTICAL ROMANCE , and that the Christ we own is no other then a MYSTICAL ROMANCE , Dial. p. 10. Contin . p. 9. A Prophane Untruth ; Vntruth , in speaking so of us ; and Prophane with a witness , to call the Light a Mystical Romance , which he just now said , ought to be obeyed . Is this your Champion ?

2. That according to the Quakers Conceits , Scripture and Reason must not be made use of , Ibid. p. 26. A Lye our Books and Practice plentifully prove .

3. That the Light in us sees no Necessity of a Mediator , Ibid. p. 35. When God knows we feel the daily Benefit of one .

4. That the Quakers account the Blood of Jesus Christ no more then they do the Blood of a COMMON THIEF . Ibid. p. 38. An Ungodly Aspersion .

5. That we deny his Visible Coming and Appearance in the World , Cont. p. 37 , 45. Though a Contradiction to himself .

6. That the Quakers hold , they can work a Compleat Righteousness OUT OF THEIR OWN BOWELS , Ibid. Epist . & p. 53. Dial. p. 38. and yet a while since , all was to be done by the Motion and Operation of God's Spirit alone . O Confusion it self !

7. They own Christ in all he did , ONLY as an Example , Contin . p. 54. yet just now he made us deny his Coming at all . What strange Lying and Self-Contradicting is here ?

8. That the Quakers Dissemble when they tell People they own the Scriptures , and that they render them of no more Authority then ESOPS FABLES , Cont. Epist. That a Quaker should say , That which troubles thee is thy PUZLING thy self so much in that BOOK THE BIBLE , thou wilt never be setled till thou throw that Book AWAY , Cont. p. 76. A Wicked Lye . Also , That a Quaker should sa● to one T. Hollbrow , What dost thou tell me of the Scriptures ? they are no more to me then an old Almanack Which we renounce both as being a Lye , and an Irreverent Expression . For J. Nobbs on whom it is charged , was a Ranter ; and if I mistake not , it was spoken before the People Quakers were known in the Southern Parts , if not before God's Breaking forth by them .

9. That any thing against our Ministry ( though never so true ) must be looked upon as the greatest Lye , Ibid. Epist. But this is one to be sure ; God will clear their Innocency , and confound their bitter Enemies .

10. That Nicholas Lucas said to one of T. Hicks 's Acquaintance , that he might burn the Bible , and serve God as well without ; and that he might write as good Scripture himself , if he would have any , Ibid. pag. 5. A Lye , he disowns , and in the Appendix may be seen .

11. That they appoint their Ministers afore-hand , to speak in such a Place , and at such a Time ; and that they go to Meetings only to encourage ( that is , to decoy , trapan and inveagle ) others , Ibid. p. 66. Very Lyes , I testifie in God's Fear .

12. That the Quakers bid People follow the Light within , and if they do so , then will they load such with most bitter Revilings , Ibid. p. 68. A Lye , every title of it . What ? Are they represented to be Overturners of all things to exalt the Light within , and now revile People most bitterly if they obey it ?

13. That one of us should bid her Husband take another Woman ▪ Ibid. p. 63. We charge upon him for a Slander .

14. That Motions of God's Spirit are pretended by Quakers , at least one of them , to refuse Just Debts , and that they may do so by their Principles , Ibid. p. 69. is also a Story hatcht in Hell .

15. That scarce a Man that reads W. Penn , but thinks him to be either DISTRACTED OR WORSE , Cont. p. 87.

16. That such as ask us Questions we call Reprobates , in the Sorcery , Witchcraft , polluted Beasts , Serpents , Sots , &c. Ibid. p. 86.

17. That one of us should say , if one that had writ against us , that if he writ any more against us , that we would Print any thing against him , that any would report , BE IT WHAT IT WOULD . Dial. p. 73.

18. If any Discourse with us , 't is the Man , and not the Argument that we will be concerned with . And if we can fix anything that is Odious , it shall pass for an Answer , and a Confutation ; And to fill up their Wickedness they will in their solemn Way of Prophaness and Blasphemy , bless God that they have thus answered .

But who has most medled with Persons may be seen , who unprovokedly has taken into Twelve Sheets about 20 Persons , and all of them such as have been wholely unconcerned with him , and are Strangers to him ; a Way I never took . How far we medle with our Adversaries Strength , our Books will best declare . Nor are his Dialogues with me less then a most undeniable Demonstration of the highest Forgery , Partiality , Cowardliness and Impudence that ever was given by Man , who falls upon our Conclusions , and never concerns himself in our Premises : A Principle obtained through many Arguments , he can tell how to crop , clip , pervert and disguise , and then call it ours ; But to engage an Argument that leads to it , as by us defended , it is not in him so much as to adventure ; His Forgeries have been his Answers ; And our Principles abused , he thought Confutation enough to themselves . When he has given an Error for a Quaker's Principle , truly all may believe it , if they will for him , he has offered in no place but little to the contrary , and in most places nothing at all .

How Honestly or Worthily he has dealt with us is further evident , who brings in five of us , Fox , Dewsbury , Crisp , Whitehead , Penn , under the Suspicion of being Wilful Lyars , Fornicators and Adulterers : For though he sayes but some of them ; yet not Naming Who , the Blemish lies against us all , every one being left to his Liberty to think , which are the Men.

Ah! the God of Vengeance will repay this Murdering , Wicked Spirit , that as greedily Haunts after our Ruin , as the Evening Wolf doth after the Prey . If these Defamations are to pass unjudged of the Anabaptists , God's despised Light will judge them , when all their Profession shall never relieve them from under Burden of it .

Thus far of Contradictions , Perversions and Lyes . Now for a few of his Forgeries .

Some of Tho. Hick's FORGERIES Detected .

I shall now endeavour to give some brief Account of his FORGERY ; and notwithstanding the Hole he hopes to escape at , I doubt not to make it appear that he is guilty of it , and therefore a FORGER . My Argument runs thus .

Arg. IV. He that gives that for a Man's Answer to any Question , that is not his answer to that Question , is a Forger ; but that Tho. Hicks hath done , therefore a Forger , consequently no True Christian .

He agrees to the First Proposition ; the Second he denies , as I suppose , which I will prove .

T.H. Anabaptist ,

Is it Honest in you to deny the Scriptures to be a Rule to others , when at the same time you make it a Rule to your selves ? Dial. p. 24 , 52.

Quak.

Thou mistakest us when we make Vse of the Scriptures , 't is only to quiet and stop their Clamours that plead for it as their Rule .

Anab.

Did this Light within create the Heavens and the Earth , &c. it being proved that it self is but a Creature ?

Quak.

Yes .

Anab.

Is this Light within the Immediate Object of Divine Worship ?

Quak.

Yea.

Anab.

Doth not this justifie that horrid Act of James Naylor's at Bristol , in receiving Hosannah's with Divine Worship , & c ? Dial. p. 64 , 65.

Quak ,

I think not meet to answer such Enquiries . A wicked Lye ; for we disowned what was Condemnable , as himself afterwards did . Again ,

Anab.

If this Light be the Rule , who is the Subject capable of understanding it ? Ibid. p 13 , 14 , 15.

Quak.

Thou art Drunk with Words and Carnal Distinctions , I know not what thou wouldst be at . A very Lye ,

Anab.

More the Pitty , if thou so furiously Contendest for this Thing , and yet knowest not what I would be at , &c. He makes us Bad that he may condemn us .

Quak.

Thou art a Wicked Creature ; Blackness of Darkness is reserved for thee . This is given in Derision .

Anab.

Was not my Question Plain and Familiar ; but is this Answer pertinent ? Is it not needful we should be informed , who must obey this Light ? &c.

Quak.

Thou art a Serpent , and the Curse of God is Eternally upon thee . A Question never so answered that he can prove .

Anab.

This Language is so Natural to you , that it is as difficult for you to leave it , as for the Ethiopian to change his Skin , &c. Vngodly Man ! Who sees not that 't is his Design not to be informed , nor inform us ; but to Scoff and Deride us ?

Quak.

Thou manifests thy Darkness , and that thou art still in thy Imagination .

Anab

What need these Impertinencies ? T. Hicks is the Father and Forger of them .

Quak.

I comprehend thee , and see the Serpent's Subtilty in these Questions ; thou art out of the Truth , and drunk with Words . What is he that spues out these invented Answers ?

Anab.

Either thou canst , or thou canst not answer me ; be so free and honest as to tell me so . If thou canst , pray let me know , whether the whole Person , or part , or something else ? What is this but to incense People against us , and beget Derision ?

Thus Reader , does this Ungodly Anabaptist ( the Scandal of his Profession ) treat us . We charge it all with Forgery in the Name of God , the Lord of Heaven & Earth ; and every Body that is not Blind , may s●e enough Scorn , Ignorance and Prophaness . But hear a little more .

Anab.

Do you believe the Scriptures to be the true Sayings of God ? Ibid. p. 25.

Quak.

Yea , so far us they agree with the Light within . An Ar●ant Forgery .

Anab.

How shall I know that ?

Quak.

I Witness it .

Anab.

Must I believe thee upon thy own Words ?

Quak.

I would have thee do so . Abominable Forgery !

Anab.

Wer 't thou never Mistaken about Persons and Things ?

Quak.

This is an Ensnaring Question .

Anab.

Did the Primitive Christians use to answer thus ?

Quak.

We deny Imitation ; We are to speak as we are moved . O Ungodly Mocker and Forger !

Here 's your Anabaptist , a Preacher , a Perverter , a Forger , and a Prophaner of wholesom Words . Who moved him to this Romance , but the Father of Lyes ? What Quaker can this be besides his ; I mean , that Vnchristian Tho. Hicks ? God will avenge the Quakers Cause upon his Head , as sure as he is God , if he for these things repent not . But yet a little more upon Perfection .

Anab.

Will this convince me , or any other , of your Perfection ? Ibid. p. 72 , 73.

Quak.

Though it do not , yet thereby we shall render you so Odious to our Friends , that they will believe nothing that is spoken by you against us .

Anab.

Then may I not conclude , that the Reason why you so freely Rail against , and Reproach your Opposers , is only to secure your Credit with your own Proselytes ?

Quak.

I cannot deny , but that there may be something of that in it . O Unreasonable Man !

Anab.

Will you be so liberal of your Revilings , whether your Adversaries give Occasion or no ?

Quak.

It concerns us to render them as Ridiculous as we can , and to make our Friends believe , they do nothing but contradict themselves ; And if this fail , we will insinuate something by way of Question that may be Reproachful to them . O Horrible Impiety ! God , our God vindicate our Innocency from these Hellish Slanders .

Anab.

But doth not this signifie a very Dishonest and Malitious Mind in you ?

Quak.

We care not what you think , provided our Friends think not so . Again , We will give it out , that we have both Answered and Confuted our Adversaries , and our Friends will believe us , which is enough to us .

Observe Reader , what a very Villain this Anabaptist has made of a Quaker ; But where will it light , when the Anabaptist shall be known to be the Maker both of the Quaker and the Villain too ? If this be not Forgery , there is no such thing in the World ? O my Heart trembles within me to think of this detestable Piece of Cheat. He writes as if he were hardened against God , desperate against us , and resolved to the Abuse of the poor People , to make them believe his Fictions to be Truths . But the Devil always spoils his own Business : For who ( not quite distracted ) can think it to be more our Interest , to please our Friends , that we are already sure of , then those who are not yet such , with Design to make them ours ?

I charge these things with abundance more , relating to both our Doctrine and Practice , upon him , as abominable Forgery ; And the Weight hereof shallly upon his Soul in the day of his Death . And the Righteous God of Heaven and Earth will terribly plead our Cause in his Conscience to his great Amazement , and perpetual Anguish , if he repent him not of these Undertakings .

But he objects , what Fierce and Impertinent Language he has given in Answer to several Questions E.B. furnisheth him with , in his Answer to one Phili● Bennet ● Priest ; As these : Thou art a wicked Creature , Blackne●s of Darkness is reserv'● for thee . Thou art a Serpent ▪ and the Curse of God is eternally upon thee . T●o● Beast , to ●hom the Plagues of God are due ; with which he makes ● great B●ast in his Continuation of the Dialogue written , in part , to prove the first no Fi●●ion : But till it be better done , he will remain a Forger in the Minds of all Impartial People ; For that i● not the ●wentieth part of what he ha● given under the Quaker's Name . Should that be admitted for a Proof so ●ar as it extends ? We have little Reason to believe that to be a sufficient Proof of the Reality of the f●rst , whose very first Question ●nd Answer is a downright Forgery in G. Whitehead's Name and that with no Quotation , though he promis'd it ; at once proving himself Lyar and Fo●ger too . But in Defence of that worthy Sufferer , and d●ceased Prophet of the Lord , I have this to say .

1. First , God having raised him with others by his Eternal Power which was very dreadful , & lived as a flaming Fire in the bosome of them against the Formality , Hypocrisy , Covetousness , Persecution and other Wickedness of that Generation of Covenant-Breaking Professors , both with God and Men , from whom they under-went bitter Mockings and cruel Sufferings . He and they have been drawn forth of the Lord to check , rebuke and strike dumb that Vnclean , Vnregenerate and Serpentine Spirit and Nature which was predominant , and that under the shew of Worship , and Forms of Religion , acted in a Mystery against the Life and Power of Godliness . Wherefore , when this Priest in his Subtilty and unclean Wisdom of the Tribe and Trade of the Ungodly Pharisee proposed these De●p and Weighty Queries ( not so much to be inform'd as to ensnare ; that 's God's Word of Truth ) whose State was to come to Judgment for Sin , and into the deep Fear , Aw and D●ea● of Allmighty God , because of Iniquity , that through God's Righteous Terrors and Judgments , he might learn the true and experimental Knowledge of what was convenient for him to know ( For they that do the Will of God , can only know the Life and Truth of his Doctrine ) I warrant it from God , and by the Sence of his Eternal Spirit do declare , that it was the Portion , and only fit Answer to be given to those trapanning Questions . And had E.B. gone into a familiar Opening to his Vulturous , Unclean , Serpentine Eye , all the deep Things of the Spirit of God , and Mysteries of his holy Kingdom , who was in that Nature that crucified the Lord of them , E.B. had brought the Wrath of the Eternal , Allwise God upon himself instead of the Priest , whose righteous Judgments were come , and at that time abroad in the Earth ; And I do believe they struck him home , or we had heard of him ere this ; For Hypocrites and Disob●dient Men sometimes are sooner struck with Judgment then Argument .

2. Nor did the Priest enquire so harmlessly , as Th. Hicks would falsly insinuate . Cont. P. 18. It is the Language of a white Devil , onset to Carp , Cavil , Catch and Ensnare the Innocent , for the Promotion of the outside and formal Religion ; then cryed up , and secretly to smite at , and withstand the Lord's Spiritual Appearance then breaking forth in the Nation . But the Priest queries smoothly ? And what then ? Is it ever the farther from being Serpentine for that ? Was it not Then the Jews sought to entrap Christ by their Questions , when they came with a seeming Veneration and Acknowledgment , calling him Master , and the like ? Are sharp Words a greater Provocation , then a subtil Twining and Dec●itful Spirit . If Tho. Hicks can no better discern Spirits , than to believe every thing fairly spoken , to be true , his Judgment is like to be little minded ; he is dead to all right Feeling . Every Spirit and Question is not to be answered ; And can he so basely misconstrue our planest and most upright Assertions , and yet put so high an Estimation ▪ upon every thing writ against us ? He shews he would have us misrepresented at any rate . Let it suffice that E. Burrough gave no harder Names then the Scripture by Rule allows , we read of Dogs , Bears , Wolves , Swine , Serpents , Vipers , Foxes , Children of the Devil , and such like ; and as that Nature to whom they were then given , thought them hard , so does T.H. now ; but the same Power that then gave them , has now us'd them , to the same End and Purpose , and I abide by it .

3. Whereas Th. Hicks insinuates , that what E.B. said was to the Man , especially as to determining his Eternal State ; I say , he has in a great part mistaken both him and us ; For it was not so much to the Person , as that accursed Seed which was transf●rmed in him , by whom the Soul was deceived , and the Heel of the true Seed bruised : Therefore it was an Answer of Love to the Priest , though a sharp and heavy Answer of Judgment upon that Mind in him , which never did , nor never will , nor can please God in any .

4. 'T is very 〈◊〉 and wicked with a Witn●ss , in T.H. Ibid. P. 27.29.32 , 33 , 34 38. that he should run 〈◊〉 with two o● thr●e leaves of a large Folio Book of about nine hundred pages consisting of so 〈◊〉 so●id T●stimonies , pertinent Answers , heavenly Epistles , his P●eas of Liberty of Conscience , his Letters , Prophecyes and Messages to the Powers ( some of which his party is concerned in ) and overlook them all ; yea , and like a most Irreligious Miscre●nt indeed ( for 't is but a Misbeliever ) and with as much Hard-heartedness and Inhumanity , as could be shewn by one Man , trample upon all his Valiant Acts , Tedious Labours , Great Sufferings , and Testimony unto Death it self for the free Exercise of a Good Conscience to God and all Men : And as if it were not enough , to rob him of the Praise due to his Life , and to speak Evil of him , now he is dead , he endeavours what in him lyes , to invalid his Reward , by rendring him unworthy of any Portion but what 's to be had in Hell . God is my Record this day , I would not , to inherit more Worlds then there are Stars in the Firmament , have so viol●●ed the Law of Charity ; against the most violent of our deceased Opposers ; and God is a●l-sufficient both to find out , question , and recompense this Ungodly Traducer , whose Envy , I doubt not has Fire enough in it , to burn that good Man's Bones with his Books , as the Blood-thirsty Pope did honest Wic●●●ss ; But Thanks be to almighty God , 't is not in his Power , nor any of his old Covenant-breaking cankered Adherents : God has swept them off the Stage ; And I declare it to be both my Faith and Prayers , that they may never come on it more ; For it is scarcely to be doubted , but if that Day were come , rather then not root out the Quakers , Th. Hicks would first forge Faults , and then Evidence to prove them . No Man can be secure of him in common Converse , who to compass his End , upon such as oppose him , will SELF-CONTRADICT , PERVERT , LY , FORGE , beyond which in this World is nothing but direct Murder , and that 's a Question , since in some Cases it were less irksome to dy , then to be defamed .

Is this Doing as Men would be done to ? Was D. Patricks Friendly Debate betwixt the Conformists and Non Conformists so Unrighteous in the Account of the Non-Conformists , because he made their Answers ? and doth Tho. Hicks pursue that Example ; yea , to a Continuation also , as he did before him ▪ Nay , did not T. Hicks once , upon a time , condemn the Disingenuity of that Way of Writing ? Yet himself the Man . Let us but consider the Early and great Care of some called Anabaptists , to detect the Forgery of the New-England Bloody Baptism , lately cryed and vended in this City . Could one think that a Chieftant of them should be so Guilty of the same Injustice ? and which is worse , hardened in it too ? and which is worst of all , at that very Instant when they were testifying their great Abhorrence to all such Actions , and using all possible Means to check and interdict the Forgery ? But we may learn from hence how hard it is for Th. Hicks and some of his Abettors , in the midst of all their pretended Zeal for the Christian Religion , to do as they would be done by : They can fly to the Council-Board for an Order against it ; to the Lord Major for a Prohibition of its Sale ; To the Arch-Bishops Chaplain , both to recall his License to the Forgery , and give them one to detect it . What have they mist to clear themselves ? But this had less suspected to be done meerly out of Reputation , if they had taken that Vile ( yet their Brother ) Anabaptist , T. Hicks into hand , for his Envious , Lying Pamphlets against us ; whose Greater Pretences to Religion renders him far the worse Forger of the two : For the Author of that Pamphlet did not so much make it the Principle of those People to destroy , as to recount under the Relation of a Brother to the Party murdered , the Lamentable Tragedy acted by a Member or two of that People , which if it had been true ( as perhaps it is a Lye ) the whole Body had not been concern'd to answer for the Passion and Fury of two or three particular Persons , further then to renounce that Action . But T. Hicks hath publickly avowed Lyes against us , the Grossest imaginable , rendring us Inconsistent with Christanity , and Destructive of the Government under which we live , and that by OUR PRINCIPLES too ; then which no greater Charge can be given , as well as no greater Lyes told against us . Well! God will be even with them for these things ; and will rid both Himself and us , of that Generation of Vipers and Hypocrites , who make Lyes their Refuge , and glory in their Warfare against the Lamb , and his Followers ; who will assuredly have the Victory : But the Tender-Hearted God will gather , and that speedily , I do believe as well , as that I do very greatly desire it .

To conclude , In both Books he has given those Answers in our Names , which never were our Answers at all ; And that little he has quoted out of our own Books , he has given as those Answers to other Questions , & many times to other Matter ; therefore not our Answers , but his own : And consequently Th. Hicks is guilty of Forgery , and so a Forger . Thus much of this Subject , to his eternal Infamy , if not wip'd away by unfeigned Sorrow and Amendment of Life .

Of his RAILING , ILL LANGUAGE and EVIL TREATING of our Friends in general , and my Self in particular .

Arg. V. He that Rails , Reviles , calls Names , &c. is no True Christian ; but such is T. Hicks ; therefore no True Christian .

It seems a great Crime with Tho. Hicks , that the Quakers will not own the Scurvy Reflections of their Adversaries ( which were the next way to be thought Guilty ) And which is stranger , he calls them Names for defending themselves . If we refuse their base Epithetes , reject their Lyes , and lay their Slanders at their own Door ; they report us a sort of Foul-Mouth'd-People , Censorious and Judging ; and which is most intollerable , they account such Carriage towards us Gospel-Zeal & Plain-Dealing , which are only better Words for Reviling and Railing . But whilst some have thus shewn themselves against us , upon close Encounters with our Books , Tho. Hicks , that he may be Extraordinary ( though in Wickedness ) forges Ill Language under our Name , that he may the better practise Railing against the Quakers , and insinuate with the Vulgar for a Reality , a very Fiction ; but since the Answers as they are , he pretends to condemn as bad , he is at once to be blamed for Forgery , and forging that which is Reprovable too .

But that which deserves our notice is , that Tho. Hicks should be the Man of all others , that takes most upon him to rate the Quakers for their Sharp Dealing with their Adversaries , who is not only Unjust in doing so , but Excessive in his Bitterness against them , witness th●se Scurrilous Invective Expressions .

A Dialogue between a Christian and a Quaker . Their owning Christ , and the Christ they own , a meer , Mystical Romance . Dial. p. 1 , 10 , 27 , 28 , 41 , 43 , 78 , 79 , 80 , 81 , 89. Cont. Tit. Pa. p. 50 , 56 , 58 , 66 , 68. 70. Cheats and Impostures . Lyars . Malignant Errors . Their Hypocrisie , Deceit . Equivocations . The way they arived to that Degree of Perfection , was by Quaking , Foaming at the Mouth , with dreadf●l Roarings and Howlings , and this , he sayes , the Devil Influenced us unto . Again , Delusions , Impertinent Canting , Non-sense , Blasphemy , The Devil's Slaves . Paganism . Satan's Snares . Pernicious and Perilous Errors . They are inspired and influenced by that grand Impostor the Devil . Blasphemous and Ridiculous Canting . Enthusiastical . They decoy and trapan . Your Idle , Non-sensical and Blasphemous Prating . Inspired by Satan . You are as Vile Impostors as ever were .

Thus much of Us and our Way in general , besides his Knaves , Cox-combs , Impudent and Audacious Fellows , that he has called our Friends in Religious Conferences . I think it not unseasonable to say something of that Entertainment I have had at his hand . I am wholely a Stranger to him ; I ever had an Esteem and tender Regard to the Sober and Tender-hearted among that People with whom he walks ; I know not that ever I had to do with them in general , and I am sure , nothing at all with Tho. Hicks in particular , as to Religious Controversie . I may further say , that some of them have known me long , my Temper , Education , early Dissent from National Worships , my Sufferings upon it ; and if they will be true to me , they must say , I have had the keeping of a Good Conscience above the one half of my Life in my Eye , being now about twenty nine Years old . Now that T. Hicks in the midst of his severe Rebukes of us as abusive to our Adversaries , should treat me with such Unhandsome Reflections , as Confident Dictates , Dial. P. 83 , 84 , 85 , 92 , 93 , 94. Contin . P. 87. intoxicated with Pride ; Tinkling and Ridiculous Words ; Arrogant and Conceited Man ; Confident Dictator ; Rash , Inconsiderate and Opinionated ; I appeal from W. Penn in his Rage and Fury ; His Talk beray'd his Arrogancy , transported with Pride and Error ▪ Brazen'd with Impudence Rage and Folly ; Presipitate into Blasphemy . I say , that he should thus vent his Passion and Displeasure upon me , who never had to do with him , is certainly very Unchristian , and altogether Unworthy of any Man that pretends to correct others .

But why Transported with Pride and Error ? only , because I said , in Defence of God's revealing his Will to Man , that methinks this one Demonstration should satisfie all ( viz. ) when neither Man , nor Scriptures are near us , there continually attends us that Spirit that immediately informs us of our Words , Thoughts and Deeds , and gives us true Directions what to do , and what to leave undone .

And this is the whole Provocation , or Reason assigned by him , for such Rude and Unhandsom Expressions , and that to a Man that never had to do with him . God's Witness in all Consciences judge betwixt us , if so true an Expression deserves such Affronts ; and if such an Answer ought to pass for a Confutation . Besides it is basely done of any Man to run down the Labours of any Man by Shreads and Scraps of Matter ; or to fall upon a Conclusion without so much as encountring one of those many Arguments that leads to it . A Way , T. Hicks of all Men , has proved himself most Expert and most Unjust in . But why Confident Dictator , and brazened with Impudence , Rage , and Folly ? Because in my Second Part of the Apology in Answer to T. Jenner , a Priest in Ireland , who had publisht scores of Lyes , Scandals and Personal Defamations against many of our Friends , and particularly against my self ( that his Book seemed but an Epitome of Lyes and Abuse ) I did say , O wretched Impudence ! Could any but a Priest brazn'd with Rage and Folly , ever pronounce so great a Lye , as that we should persecute the Truth and its Followers , with bitter Revilings and Reproachings ? when yet sayes T. Hicks , that , to which Penn thus replyes , is such a matter of Fact , that Thousands can bear Witness to the Truth of it . But herein has he done foolishly , for it being yet disputable betwixt us , what is Truth , and what is Persecuting , and what is Reviling ? Can he have so little Modesty in his Cryes against Impudence , as to make our Accusers & Parties , either Judges or Witnesses ? We shall submit it to an Impartial Judgment ; but not to Tho. Hicks's Pride and Passion . However , this is most true , that to call Christ's Light an Ignis Fatuus , a dim Light , the Spirit of the Devil , that we are of the Devil , that we are possest , are Witches , acted and mov'd by Satan , Enemies to God , Christ , the Spirit , Religion , humane Societies ; with many Stories that we have offered to prove Lyes in the Sight of all Men , and particularly what he charged upon my self , viz. That Penn , another of their Teachers , did boldly affirm to a Friend of mine in Dublin , that whosoever shall expect to be saved by that Jesus Christ that was born in Judea , and suffered at Jerusalem , shall be deceiv'd ; which I declare to be a Lye in the whole , and every part of it . I say , this is certain , that so much evil Treatment may well extort that sharp and just Rebuke from me : But if it be Criminal , ( I know in T. Hicks's account it is ) for me so to Character a Priest that had written an entire Book against us , in which he had most wickedly belyed our Principles , and abused our Friends , and bespattered my self in particular .

What can He think of himself , to say so much more of me , who never writ against the Anabaptists in general , nor Tho. Hicks in particular , much less , that I have vented or aggravated so many horrible Lyes against either them , or him ? If his Conscience condemn him not of Baseness , Passion and Partiality it is feared ; and if the Party he belongs to , judge him not for such Unjust Procedure , they will be condemn'd of God's Light , that will bring every Unfruitf●l Word and Work into judgment .

His Insinuating that I entitule J. Nailors Blasphemy and Railing , wherewith he was charged at Bristol , upon the Holy Spirit ▪ and that neither he had , nor I have Words enough to signifie our Venom and Malignity ; because I said of James Nailors Book writ long before his being so charged , That if he had treated that accursed Stock of Hirelings ten thousand times more sharply ▪ it had been but enough ; is like the rest of his Vngodly Perversions already noted ; For first I speak against Hir●lings ; and I have said nothing of them , that the Holy Prophets have not exceeded , who called them Dumb D●gs , Greedy Dogs , Wolves , and such like . But T. Hicks's Concern for Hirelings shews both that he is one himself ( and indeed has been so a long time ) and next , that he is fallen with many more from the fi●st Love and Principle of that People called Anabaptists .

2. From my Justifying James Nailor's Sharpness in a particular Contr●v●●sie ●gainst a Deceitful , L●ing Pr●e●● ; he infe●s , th●t I d●fend him as to his p●blick Misc●ri●g●s at Bristol . I● this thy Conscience ? hath all thy pretended Sc●iptural Doctrines Knowledge , ●tudy , Preachm●nts , &c. brought thee no further ? God will b●●●t it all , and bring thee to Judgm●nt for ● cler●●●gs .

Well may I return the third particular against thy self , and Warn all People how they adhere to a Man f●●'d with so much Vn●ruth , Slander , Perversion and Forgery ; who art alien●ted from G●d's Light as near as it is to thee , and that Heavenly Life that is felt therein of all those who believe and obey the Light .

Reader , Let us not be esteemed Railers because we rebuke Railing ; Nor our Rel●gious ●ensure of their Perversions , Forgeries and Proph●ness , be accounted Reviling ? 'T is Trouble enough to us to be thus conce●ned in Controversie ; We would find other Employment if such Envious Spirits found not this for us . 'T is not our Choice , but theirs ; They began , and which is worse , when the Powers left off . Their Restles● Spirit shows , it must have its Vent some way . Policy and Enmity together have turn'd it upon us : so that our Peace from the Powers proves a Persecution from some of the Professors , as the Experience of the base Cowardize of many among them gives us to remember , that the Powers Pe●secution was the time of their Peace ; who like Insects lay dead during those Winter Seasons : We were then their made Walls to flat the Shot , and Bulworks , to resist the Assaults ; and the more Moderate prayed , that we might be enabled to stand ; But no sooner were we come out of that Fiery Furnace then we were saluted with an Imposture from Lincoln , and a L●e from Dover , both subscribed by Anabaptist ●re●chers , with several Clamor●us Books since . An Ill Rec●mpenc● indeed for our Love and Sufferings : But fr●m God is our Reward , therefore we are not moved ; with whom we leave our Innocency ; and ●e will Effectually plead our Cause with our Adversaries .

His SCOFFS , or slight ESTEEM of WITNESSING ; With a Word to Professors ; With a Conclusive Supplication to the Lord .

Arg. VI. He that Slights and Scoffs at Witnessing is no True Christian ; but that doth Tho. Hicks , therefore no true Christian .

It was the Way of the True Prophets , Apostles and Churches of Christ to declare of what they had known Experimentally of God and his Work , otherwise they must have been uncertain of the Truth of those Things they have recommended to us :

The Waldenses accounted themselves Witnesses ; their best Argument was their Conscience , P.P. Perrin . Hist. Wald.

Luther oppos'd the Pope and his Adherents , particularly about Justification by Works , upon Experience . He made it to stand in the Testimony of God in the Conscience , that he was accepted from an Inward Work of God's Spirit , and not any Outward Wo●ks , much less such as their Works were , Wessel , & Luth. confer . Fox . Mart. 2. Tom.

And since the Times of Reformation , from the Thickness of Popery , Experiences have been very Excellent Things . I remember , though very young to Thousands , what a great Stir and Flockings there has been in my time after such Preachers , who could by any Experiences , approach the Consciences , and tell People upon Tryal what God was , and what Christ was , and the Holy Spirit , with respect to the Soul of Man , as to Manifestation , Operation , Conviction , Faith , Temptation , Victory over Sin , Regeneration , The English Martyrs laid the Stress of their Opposition to Popery , upon their Witnessing better things , Book of Mart. and the like . Indeed , it was the Want of this Preaching that gave such a Dis-relish to People of the National Priests , and they suffered not a little for their Change : Sure I am , The Brownists call themselves , God's - Sack-Cloth-Witnesses in their Apology dedicated to King James , in the beginning of his Reign , 1. yea , in that Epistle Dedicatory , they speak several times to that purpose , their being Witnesses , that they did Witness , &c. The like often in the Preface & Book it self , with great Zeal and Honesty . 'T was what they al in their several day felt springing up in them , that gave them to relish Persons , Words , and Things ; and as they savoured , so they testified . Their Experience was the Ground of their Knowledge ; And their inward Witnessing the Work and Will of God , the Reason of their outward Witnessing for it unto Death it self . some Forms , reputed less Phanatical then that in which T. Hicks is , prest closely after such a Ministry , and utterly decryed all other to be Beneficial in the Church of Christ : But the Lord God having appeared in a more Immediate and Spiritual Manner , & some having taken up their Rest by the way , ( therby losing their first Desire and Love , and so the more Insensible of these further Breakin gs forth of God's Power amongst them ) under the more refined Form they have sat down in ( and where the Lord in some Measure might have appeared to them ) do they in this Day set themselves to War against the Light and Life of Christ within ; For indeed it is a State too Inward , Self-less , and Spiritual for their Carnal Minds , that can only perform an Outward and Formal Worship , to arrive at . Now such being closely beset in their Fading and Dying Forms , and many on all hands , in whom there are any tender Desires after God's Invisible Presence , falling from them ( like Men that seek themselves , and not the Lord ) they are belabouring hard to prevent such a Separation from them ; and indeed , they are grown so Dry & Barren of all Good , by their Opposition to the Lord's Truth , as now revealed among us ▪ that they come to lose ( with their former good Desires ) their very Doctrine ; And that which above all things was once most desirable to the better Sort of them ) and applauded by all , is become a Theam for Scorn and Derision ; I mean , WITNESSING .

Thomas Hicks , though an Anabaptist-Preacher , cannot abide to hear of Witnessing . He had as lieu meet with the Lye , Dial. p. 20 , 25 , 68 , 72. Cont. p. 23. as Witnessing for an Answer . He commonly bestows Ignorance , Folly , or such like upon It for a Companion ; And though another Return might be as easily found out by him , yet because it may not so well suite the Scoffer and Prophane , WE WITNESS IT , is to go in its room . To which kind of Answer he usually replies , What is Thy Witnessing to Me ? Do not put us off with your Witnessings , which signifie nothing to us . Thy Commands and Witnessing are much alike to me , with more of this kind .

My Friends , In the Love of God , that would have you redeemed and saved , I beseech you , turn away from such Blind Guides , their Paths are Darkness , and the End thereof Death ; If ever you will know and worship God aright , you must come to the measure of his Spirit in you , that is given to convince the World of Sin , and you must know the Work thereof Experimentally in you , or your Souls perish for ever . My Friends , I have a great Stress upon me concerning you , would I could reach into every Soul of you , that you might be toucht with this true Testimony ; for I know not more truly that God is , then that I feel him to be a Rewarder of every Man according to his Works ; and such as Men sow they must reap . And truly , my Friends , Time passeth away apace , and the Day makes haste over you , if your Visitation be shut up in God's Withdrawing the Light of his Countenance ( inwardly to be felt and known by such as turn to it ) your Condition will be miserable for ever . I beseech you in the Bowels of the Love of Christ Jesus , unto whom this comes ; Be Still , Cool and Moderate , let him in , whose Right it is ; He will affect your Hearts , purifie your Souls , destroy your Enemies , and finally save you from Sin here , and Wrath to come ; for to that End was he given a Light to lighten the Gentiles , and for Salvation to the Ends of the Earth . And hold no Communication with such Unsavory Persons as Thomas H●●ks , a Man turn'd , I testifie , from the Grace of God into Dryness , and Wantonness , and Prejudice , who makes a Mock at Experience , and to whom the Weighty Work of Witnessing is Matter of Derision . O the Ill Use he has made of Religion , and the Lamentable End he is come and coming to ! My Friends , get to Experience , get to Witnessing by all Means , and that with all Speed ; for those who cannot witness God's Work and Will done in them to their Sanctification , shall never see Heaven ; That is the Word of the Lord God of Life and Power , and it is sealed for ever . Ah! Life for your Souls , or you perish , which is only known in the Light ; and ye must be born again , or you enter not into the Kingdom of God . No splendid Shew , no Methodical Articles , no Outward Fellowships will serve turn ; Friends , they will all stay behind , when you must go away once and for ever . Therefore be not Opposers of God's Work in your selves , nor others ; but seek after Invisible Life for your Souls , that will go with you : And if you will believe in the Light , you shall not abide in Darkness , but shall have the Light of Life ; which , blessed be God , we do Experience , yea , Thomas Hicks , we Witness it . And though thou hast bestowed much time to Abuse , Belye , Slander , and Traduce our Friends in general , and my self ( a Stranger to thee ) in particular , yet I can forgive thee , and the Lord is Record for me , I wish thy Salvation . O that these heavy things might not be layed to thy Charge● For , so sure as God liveth , Great will be the Wrath that shall follow ; yea , God will visit for these Unrighteous Dealings : And I testifie to thee from God's Living Spirit , if thou desist not , and come not to deep Repentance , the Lord will make thee an Example of his Fury , and thy Head shall not go down to the Grave in Peace ; and by this shalt thou know , that not a Lying , or Delusive , but a true and Infallible Spirit hath spoken by me ; yea , the Light within will bear Witness to the Truth of these things on thy Dying Bed ; and then remember me . I wish well to all ; I seek the Good of all ; I have nothing in my Eye , but the Glory of my God , the Prosperity of his Truth , and the Salvation of all People , through their Belief in it , and Obedience to it . Wherefore my Heart is not discomforted , but I have Peace with him , whose Presence I feel , in which is Life to my Soul , Strength towards my Labours , S●pport under Sufferings , and a plentifull Reward for them all .

A Conclusive Supplication .

O Lord God! Plead thy own Cause , and the Innocency of thy own poor People . O Lord ! Reach into the Consciences of all thy Enemies ; Breath a Blast upon all their pleasant Shews ; Stain the Glory of their Will-Worship ; Bring them down , that thou mayst exalt them ; Wound them , that thou mayst heal them ; Break them , that thou mayst bind them up . O , that they may all Hunger and Thirst after thy Appearance ; that thy Life , and Power , and Wisdom they may come to witness , that they may be all saved in this thy Day , O Lord , from every Barren Way , and from every Evil Work ; that the Life of thy Pu●e Spirit may shine forth by them to thy Eternal Praise , who over all art worthy , who art God , Blessed forever , Amen .

Magna est Veritas , & Prevalet . Great is the Truth , and it doth Prevail .

A Postscript of Complaint Against the Unfair Dealing of our Publick Enemies .

SInce God visited us by his Glorious Light , and that he Alarm'd , Q●icken●d a●d Ra●s'd us by his Almighty Power , that broke in upon our Hearts and Consciences to Discover Sin , wound for it , and redeem from under the Yoak of it , that our Religion might not stand i● Word and in Form only , but in Power and Life ) But specially since our Out-cry against the Formality and Emptiness of the many Religions in the World , preaching the Necessity of Obedience to the daily Cross unto Salvation ; many have been our Enemies , and those of divers sorts . What Stratagems they have used , may be better known when it shall be considered , what they have not used to our Destruction ; Indeed ●ew , or none : For if Lyes , Forgeries , Perversions , Mis-representations , Aggravation of Invented Miscarriages would have done , we had not been now in the World : But God has preserved us to this day , and the Point of their Arrows have retorted upon themselves , and the Hole they have digg'd for us , they have o●ten fallen into themselves ; and our Pati●nce and Resolution will wear out their Envy a●d Cruelty .

Among other of their Essayes , Writing hath not been the least in Practice and Request . But this we have publickly to declare of , and that in a way of Just Complaint : Our Enemies multiply their Books against us ; yet never answer our Defences . The utmost of their Endeavours towards it , seems to end either in Cavilling , Perverting , Mis-representing our Words and Meanings ( rather disguising then confuting our Principles ) or else inventing Error and Weakness in our Name , that they may the more easily convict us of both ; though guilty of neither .

Since therefore they afford us no Just Dealing , but instead of weighing our Reasons , in Vindication of our so much decryed Way , seek to defame it , through Ignorance or Malice , or both ; We thought it fit to let them know , that we have several Books already out , which contain a large & effectual Defence of our Principles and Practices , which we demand a serious Consideration of , and full Answer to , before we shall think our selves obliged to any further Tracts in our Vindication , then what have been already writ , and which we are now in hand withal . For that we should so often defend our selves , and our Defences be neglected ; and instead of an effectual Consideration of them , that they should fall to their old , and so often repell'd Charges and Accusations , as if they writ , not to have us clear our selves , nor yet that they would justifie their Mis-representations of us , by confuting our Apologies , but to be dirt and disguize us to the People , is most Unreasonable on their side , as well as that it would argue great Indiscretion on ours , to follow them into every repetitious Accusation . For our parts , we can never think our selves obliged to justifie our Principles so many times over against the same Charges , till our Answers have been better weighed : For as such Trouble would be almost endless ; so in reality , it looks more like making us Work , then Refuting us . Besides , I must needs tell the World , the base Cowardize of this Adversary in hand ; for we have offered him a free Meeting with his Books in our hands , proffering to refute them viva voce before the World ; but instead thereof , or any other way ( as several have been tendered ) he disingenuously slincks away , and ●uts us off by meer Shifts and Evasions : His Business is to write Dialogues , which he is sure to answer himself , and to back his Forgeries with Lyes .

But avoiding all Party-Reflection , or any further Aggravation of this base Fear and Injustice too ; we shall among the many Books writ by us in general in Defence of our Way we profess , lay these few upon the Heads of our several Adversaries , as containing much of what can be said in behalf of our Principles and Practices .

1. Priests & Professors Principles , writ by G. Fox .

2. Rusticus ad Academicos , writ against J. Owen , R. Baxter , J. Tombs and T. Danson , by S. Fisher .

3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , writ against Bishop Gauden , by Samuel Fisher .

4. Edward Burroughs's Works .

5. The Divinity of Christ , &c. writ against J. Owen , T. Danson , T. Vincent , W. Maddox , by G.W.

6. Oaths no Gospel-Ordinance , against A. Smalwood , writ by Francis Howgil .

7. The Great Case of Tythes , by Francis Howgil .

8. Immediate Revelation , &c. writ by Geo. Keith .

9. The Serious Apology , &c. writ against T. Taylor and T. Jenner , by G. Whitehead and W. Penn.

10. The Nature of Christianity , &c. writ against R. Gorden , by G. Whitehead .

11. Christ Ascended , &c. writ against J. Newman , by G. Whitehead .

12. The Light and Life of Christ within , &c. writ against W. Burnet , by G. Whitehead .

13. No Cross , no Crown , &c. writ by W. Penn.

14. The Spirit of Truth Vindicated , &c. writ against the Socinians , by W. Penn.

15. Quakerism a New Nick-Name for Old Christianity , &c. writ against J. Faldo , by W. Penn.

16. The Christian-Quaker , &c. writ against the Strength of all our many Adversaries in general , and several of them in particular ; divided into two Parts , the first by W. Penn , the second by G. Whitehead .

These , with our present Discourse , let them answer ; and if they have any thing that 's new to offer , we shall , we hope , by God's Assistance , freely and faithfully consider it ; otherwise let Shame cover the Face of our Enemies for their Unjust Out-cries and Base Forgeries against us , whom they cannot by Reason silence , nor sober Argument confute .

W.P.

AN APPENDIX : Being some SOBER and SHORT ANIMADVERSIONS UPON Certain Passages in Tho. Hicks's Dialogue and Continuation of the Dialogue ; by which his Vnchristian Spirit is further Detected to the WORLD . Also a Collection of those Doctrines and Principles , which have been chiefly Controverted between us , Granted and Confest to by our present Opposer Thomas Hicks , and others of the Baptists Perswasion Drawing the Present Controversie to an End .

By George Whitehead .

His Mischief shall return upon his own Head ,

Psal. 7.16 .

Printed in the Year , 1673.

Moderate Reader ,

IF any of these our present Opposers , to wit ( some angry Anabaptists , and traducing Dippers ) be minded to Quarrel and Scold at us for the Last Word or Pamphlet , I do not think it any Disparagement to our Religion , nor any Lessening of our Christian Reputation , if they should have the Last Word , and we should mutely sleight their Revilings ; but as yet we have a Necessity on us , both for True Religion and Christianity's sake , to manifest to the World their Abuse of both ; together with the Envious , Lying , Perverse and Abusive Spirit , that appears in their Scornful , Irreligious Agent Thomas Hicks ( who will bring no Honour to them , nor their Religion , but Disgrace ) who hath forged up a second Dialogue to render the True Quaker no Christian , but the most implacable Enemy to the Christian Religion . p. 68. and hath therein improved his Study to render us Odious , and not in any serious o● solid way of Treatise to answer our Principles , but with a bundle of impertinent Introrogatories , Cavils , Scoffs , Jeers , Flouts , Forgeries , malitious Revilings , perverting our Words , in divers places mistaking them for his own Malitious Dsiegn , to render us , our Sufferings and Consciences Odious and Contemptible ; and to destroy our Reputations both as Men and Christians , as appears in the whole Tenour of his Work in these two Pamphlets , and as may be seen particularly in the 67 , 68 , 69. pages of his Continuation . And to conclude his Work , as one consciously Jealous of what he had done , that he might be detected ; for Prevention , and to keep us mute , he gives us a kind of severe Threat , saying , pag. 88. I have been sparing touching your Practices , horrid Enormities raigning , &c. if therefore you will provoke me to speak all I can , either respecting your Opinions or Practices , blame me not , &c. They that have read his Dialogues , may judge , how sparing he hath been ; and if we were guilty of horrid Enormimities or Immora●lities , what Mercy we should have from such Judges as he , who is thus liable and ready to be provoked . But as we expect no Christian-Dealing nor that Charity from him which is not easie to be provoked ; so his Threats shall not deter us from making our Just & Christian Defence on Truth●s behalf , a●● such Malitious Forgers and Perverters , whilst n●●●●ve the Testimony of a good Conscience to plead , and a holy Confidence in God's eternal pow●rful Truth , which shall out live all the Emnity of its Adversaries , wherein they fret and we●ry themselves for very Vanity , who have conceived Chaff , and brought forth Stubble ; they have travelled in Pain , and brought forth a Lye , whose own Breath as Fire shall devour them , and they shall be caught in their own Snares , and fall into the Pit , which they have digged . Observe , that Ingenuous Disputants or Contenders ( especially for Christianity ) will diligently take notice of the very Strength & Stress of their Opponents Objections and Arguments , and endeavour their Conviction by a candid and fair Answer ; but instead thereof the Dialogue-Man frames Objections and Interrogatories in the Christian's Name with what Subtilty he can , and feigns Answers in the Quaker's Name as silly , feeble and contemptible as he can ( together with gross Calumnies and manifest Slanders ) to render them Ridiculous and Odious , passing by the Strength of their Arguments , and perverting both their Words and Intentions in their Books against their Opposers , particularly those of his Party : therefore while he pretends , that all he intends is only our Conviction and Recovery , he is guilty of gross Hypocrisie and Falshood , as in the Sequel will surther appear .

G.W.

Vnprejudiced Readers ,

LEt it be observed , that after Thomas Hicks hath pretended faithfully to represent some of the chief Opinions of the Quakers in his first Dialogue ( T●tle Page ● And in his second to give a more full Relation of their Dangerous Tenets .

Continuation Epist . pag 2. He saith , The Doctrines delivered by them are such , as neither themselves , nor any for them , can give us a distinct and intelligible Account of : and that the Tendency of all their Writings and Declarings doth but lead People into the Thickets of Absurd , Inexplicable and Vnintelligible Dotages . Epist.

How plain is it , that the Absurdity and Dotage ( yea , and Falshood ) is his own , let the Rational Reader judge in his pretending Faithfully to Represent those Opinions and Tenets , which he confesses neither themselves , nor any for them ( excluding himself with all others ) can give a distinct and intelligible Account of ; and that they are inexplicable , I do not so much regard his absurd Lye herein , as take notice how Inconsistent , Fruitless and Absurd his Work against us is . But why can neither themselves , nor any else , give a distinct and intelligible Account of their Doctrines ? If you 'le believe him , he saith , They talk like Mad-Men , as having lost their Common Reason ▪ and were absol●tely Infatuated , Cont. p. 67. and would make the World beli●ve , as if they were either Distract●d or ●orse p. 70. and saith , That scarce a Man that reads W. Penn , but thinks him to be either Distracted or worse , p. 87. Surely , if this Man believed all this of us , he would not perplex and trouble himself with so much Studying and Scribling against us , as he doth ; his Vexation and Torment would not encrease , as it doth : What! Mad-men ? absolutely Infatuated ? Distracted , or worse ? and yet their Doctrines and Tenets Dangerous ? How can this be ? especially if neither Intelligible nor Explicable ? His Lye against W.P. is so apparent , that all in their Wits , who read him , may see it : O T. Hicks ! why hadst thou not so much Wit as to have hid thy Folly in Silence ?

Thy Prayer is , The Lord in Mercy vouchsafe to us ( in this Hour of Tryal , wherein the Spirit of Error doth so fearfully prevail ) that his Holy Truth may shine out , &c. Epist. [ Shine out ] Must not that be in Man's Conscience then ? How agrees this with his opposing the Light within as a Rule ? By [ Spirit of Error ] no doubt but he means the Spirit of the Quakers ; But what need this Hour of Tryal thereby come so near him , or he fear its prevalency with Errors , if it appear in such Distraction , and so unintelligible and inexplicable therein , as he renders it ? But how Mad and Distracted soever he represents us , his charity and pretended Christianity leads him not to pitty us , but grosly to Revile , Slander and Abuse us , both as Men and as Professors of Religion : His Malice cannot enough vent it self against us by counting us Mad-Men , absolutely Infatuated , Distracted , &c. but also Cheats , Wicked or Vile Impostors , Monsters in Religion , Dissemblers , Prophane , Immoral , Knave , Impudent Fellow , and guilty of Decei● and Hypocrisie , Equivocation , Idle Pra●ing , Horri● Blasphemy , Arrogance , little Respect to Magistrate● , Wilful Lying , Vile Hypocrisie and Deceit , the most Implacable Enemies to the Christian Religion , as Vile Impostors as ever were , Destructive to all Humane Society , Horrid Enormities , &c. But how well this kind of t●●a●i●● us with most Calumnious Reviling agrees eit●e● with his Accusation before , of Mad Men , Distracted , &c o●●ith his Pretence to Meekness and Fear , p. 3● . Scripture Language and Terms , p. 38. or with his intending only our Conviction and Recovery , let all sober Readers judge : we are sure , that this Way of Des●ming , rendering a People so grosly Odious to the Nation , and Obnoxious to the Powers , is not the Way either to convince or recover them , if deceitved or mis-guided ; much less to Belye and Slander them in Matters wherein they know themselves clear , as he hath done by us . As when we declare ou● Faith in a Matter , and give as plain and sincere Answers as we can , & that according to plain Scripture , he tells us , We do notoriously Equivocate and Dissemble , p. 54 & that we do not in truth believe what we perswade many well-meaning People we do , p. 69. Such is the measure we meet withal from this Malitious Accuser , who most falsly presumes to be a Judge of our Minds and Intentions , contrary to what we in Plainness express ▪ wherein our Consciences bear us Reco●d in the Sight of God , he grosly belyes us ; and the Deceit and Falshood lies upon himself , and he cannot wash his hands of it . He told us in his Dialogue , p 90. That if the Quakers return him the Common Answer , that they are Lyes and Slanders , and that he is an Envious , Railing Man ; To the first he should not think himself concerned to give any Reply , because he is fully satisfied , &c. Upon which ( as I had sufficient Ground ) I did charge him with being Guilty of ●oth Lyes and Slanders against the Quakers , of which ●instanced Seven , Dipper Plung . pag. 16 , 17. Notwithstanding he hath promised , he should not think himself concerned to give any Reply on this Occasion ; yet he hath not only written a second Dialogue * * Which if it must be taken for any Reply , he hath broken his Promise ; but if no Reply , then it clears him not . to vindicate himself from b●ing a Slanderer and a Forger ; but for ●roof of his own Lyes and Forgeries hath added more against us . And for the most ●art of his Contradictions , I charged against him in the said Dipper ●lung'd , he has not so much as made ●n Essay to reconcile them : Neither has his Brother V. Kiffin , nor any else of his Brethren appeared in ●rint , either to vindicate or excuse him , though rferred to therein ; but he must either stand solely ●on his own Legs , or fall . In that they do somewhat Wisely and Warily , but neither Prudently , ●r like Christians , to suffer their Brother Hicks , thus Headily and Out-ragiously to persist in his Perverse Spirt to Clamour , Vilifie , Reproach and Defame both particular Men , and a Body of People fearing God , together with their Religion and Sufferings ; nor will he Grace the Anabaptists Cause with ●is Defaming Pamphlets , nor they in spreading them , being patcht up with both Lyes and Falshood .

Be it further observed , That Tho. Hicks would perswade the Reader of his Honesty and Conscienciousness , touching his Work against us , in his seeming Solemn Appeal , Epist. p. 2 , saying , God forbid , that I should be guilty of such vile Injustice , as to charge them with false things ; Examine the Quotations , and th●● judge .

He would make the World believe , he is very Just ; But let us try him ( though he be fully handled before ) if he be not guilty of such vile Injustice , as he mentions .

Where he saith , The Holy Scriptures are esteemed by them ( viz. the Quakers ) inferiou● to their own Pamphlets ; * * These are both Abominable Lyes . yea , they render them to be of no more A●thority , then the Fables of Aeso● , Epist.

Where are his Quotations from the Quakers , that they thus render the Holy Scriptures ? He refers us to none at all ; I charge him with an Abominalle Slander , Vile Injustice and Gross Deceit in th● : And we utterly Disown and Abominate such an Undervaluing Comparison of the Holy Scriptures , as here he hath accused us of . O seared Conscience to appeal to God , as one not guilty of such vile Injust●ce , as that of charging us with false things , and refer the Reader to Examine the Quotations , when here ●s not one Quotation , nor the colour of one , that the Quakers did ever thus speak of , or render the Holy Scriptures to be of no more Authority , then the Fables of Aesop . What will not Envy and Wickedness had this Man to say against us ? Doth this agree with ●is Pretence , That all he intended , was only our Conviction and Recovery ? Dial. p. 10. Is it not rather to do us what Injury and Mischief he can by Slanders and Forgeries ?

Tho. Hicks's Charge against Nicolas Lucas , viz.

That N.L. a Real Quaker , was moved to declare his Mind thus ( to one I know very well * * Where is his Quotation for the Reader to Examine here ? ) Thou mayst burn thy Bible , and when that is done , thou mayst serve God as well without it ; and if thou hast a mind to have a Scripture , thou mayst write as good a one thy self .

N. L's Answer follows .

These words ( whereof T. Hicks hath thus publickly and positively accused me , and that divers times over in his Pamphlet ) were never spoken by me , nor was it ever my Principle , Way or Motion , to Dis-esteem , Undervalue or speak evil of the Holy Scriptures ; for I really believe , that Holy Men of God spake them forth as moved by the Holy Spirit . Therefore this Charge against me is an Abominable Lye , and Wicked Slander : And with a clear Consience I speak it , I do neither know nor remember , that ever any words past from me , whereby Tho. Hicks could so much as colour this Lye and Slander against me . And I cannot but look upon my self to be greatly Injur'd and Abus'd by T.H. until he , o● his Brethren do me Right in this thing , in as publick a Manner to the World , as he hath done me Wrong . Which i● they do not , I commit my Cause to God to judge between us , and clear my Innocency herein .

London , the 29 th of the 3 d Moneth , 1673. Nicolas Lucas .

Whereas Nicolas Lucas was referr'd to Owen Horton and his Wife for Proof of Tho. Hicks's Charge before , to whom Nicolas spoke about it , and she referr'd her self to Hen. Stout to witness the Charge , to which Hen. Stout answers thus , viz:

I Hen. Stout of Hertford never in all my dayes heard Nicolas Lucas speak the Words ( nor any of the like Import or Tendency as ) charged on him before , nor any Man else , before Tho. Hicks , that I can call to mind ; But am satisfied in my Conscience , that he hath most grosly Wronged Nicolas Lucas .

To which I subscribe H. Stout .

Another Accusation is , viz. That S. Eccles , discoursing with a Friend of his in London , told him , The Scriptures were a Lye . But that this may appear a very likely Lye against S.E. he adds , 'T was replyed , Why then dost thou mention them that ? The Quaker answer'd , To silence thee .

That he should say , the Scriptures were a Lye , or that he made use of a Lye to silence his Opposer , appears a most absurd Slander : and where is his Quotation the Reader must examine for Proof ? Hath he not here Abused his Reader ? But let S. Eccles's own Words clear him of this Lye and Slander .

In his Book Mus. Lect. he often cites the Scriptures , calls them , The Holy Scriptures , pag. 13. Thou that sayst , the Quakers deny the Scriptures , belyest the Innocent , pag. 20. Do not belye the Scriptures , nor the Spirit that gave it forth ; for Holy Men wrote , as they were moved by the Holy Ghost , pag. 22 .

Whereas Tho. Hicks begins his Continuation thus :

Chr.

I have formerly detected you of several Pernicious Opinions concerning the Scriptures , the Light Within , the Person of Christ , and the Resurrection , &c. I presume , by this time you have considered , what say you thereunto ?

( To this he feigns the Answer thus , viz. )

Quak.

I say , the Plagues and Judgments of God will follow thee . G. Whitehead .

Rep.

I testifie against this as a Fiction ; for this was not my Answer , neither has he referred us to any Quotations of mine ; though upon this he is pleased to accuse me with Passion , Furious Replies and Sarcasms for his own Fiction , to which he hath counterfeited my Name : I question not but the Judgments of God will follow him , and such Forgers and Spreaders of Lyes . But that was not my Answer to the said Objection : This Dialogue-Man's Liberty in these Forgeries , and silly Botcheries is neither Christian , nor Civil .

As to what he sayes pag. 3. I answer :

1. That the Life , which is the Light of Men , John 1. is not a Creature , but Divine , and of the very Being of God , I still affirm , and have else-where proved ; though the whole Essence or Being of God is not contained in Man , yet enlightens all Men. And

2. That the Inward Speaking or Living Ministration of the Spirit of Truth , is of greater Authority then the Scriptures or Writings in the Abstract .

3. S. Crisp doth own the True and Real Christ , the Son of the Living God ( in his Spiritual Divine Being ) to be without either Beginning , Date , or End . This he hath fully answered else-where .

4. That the Soul , or Spirit of Man ( as it relates to the Creaturely Being ) is a distinct Being from the Infinite Being of God , and is not properly a Part of God . For he is not divided into Parts or Particles ; but with respect to its Original Life , whereby it immortally subsists , we are God's Off-spring , and the Breath of Life , or Immediate Inspiration of God ( by which Man became a Living Soul ) or the Original Life of Man's Soul . Of this G.F. spoke , when he said , Is not that of God , which cometh out from God ? viz. the Breath of Life ? His words are perverted and mis-cited by T.H. For in another Consideration and State he owns the Infinite Being of God , and the Soul or Spirit of Man to be distinct Beings , where he speaks of the Soul being in Death , in Transgression , Man's Spirit Vnsanctified , the Soul being in Death , Transgressing the Law , see Great Myst . p. 91. This he could never intend or speak of the Infinite , Incorruptible Being of God ; for that never sinned .

5. That G.W. denies the Resurrection of the Body ( that is , of the Dead , or any Body at all ) is false ; nor is this prov'd against G.W. from his Saying , Thou sowest not the Body that shall be , it 's raised a Spiritual Body , and Flesh & Blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God . 1. Cor. 15. And T.H. may as well charge it upon the Apostle , and upon his Brother Tho. Collier , who in his Marrow of Christianity p. 40 , 94 , 95. plainly saith , The Form , in which they shall be raised , that is in a Spiritual Form , not in a Fleshly &c. All Flesh shall be swallowed up in Spirit ; and our Body shall be changed and made like his glorious Body . But Tho. Hicks plainly contradicts him saying , That the Apostles and all true Christians say , This Body of Flesh and Bones shall rise again . Dial. p. 59 , 60. which he could never yet prove .

The Contradiction I placed upon T. Hicks was not between his Denying the Light within to be a Sufficient Rule , and his Granting , it ought to be obeyed ( as he falsly states it , Contin . p. 8. ) but between his Saying , the Light within ( which we attend to ) hath in many things misguided thee , and his granting , it ought to be obeyed , appealing to it ; See Dip. plung . p. 5. Is that which ought to be obeyed ( or appealed to in things relating to Salvation ) a misguiding Light ?

T.H. his Comparison between those Signs wrought by the Light within , and what is spoken of the Man of Sin , 2 Thess. 2 , 9. or that what we have said thereof may as well prove Mahomet to be the true Christ as the Light within . Dial. p. 11.12 . — I say , still this is Blasphemy , and contradicted by T.H. himself in his Saying , that Christ is the Life and Light of Men , Dial. p. 22. Of which Contradiction he takes no notice , but abuseth and accuseth me with Deceit and Falshood .

His sleighting our Obeying the Commands of the Living Eternal Word in us , and reflecting upon our owning Jesus Christ , as being with such a mental and mystical Reservation ( as he falsly saith ) which that it is no other than a meer Mystical Romance , Dial. p. 10. and now ( to mend the Matter ) that the Christ we own is no other then a Mystical Romance . Herein I must still look upon him to have acted the Prophane Romancer , and Irreligious Miscreant : And the Condemnation and Deceit he would cast upon me falls on his own Head , and not mine . I speak my Conscience ; We attending upon the Light of Jesus Christ in us , it naturally , leads us to know and own Him , who is our Life and Light ; whom to call a Mystical Romance , is Horrible Blasphemy .

He puts me off at an easie Rate , when he saith , Th●se other things are so frivolous , that I think ●hem not worth any Reply , Contin . p. 9. Will this reconcile his many Contradictions , which I have jus●ly charged him with in his own words ? He hath only seemed to take notice of one before , and that he has falsly stated , as is hinted .

Why should he charge me with affirming the Light within to be the Divine Essence , p. 10. ( though they are not my words ) when he himself has confessed , Christ to be the Light and Life of Men ? And Philip Bennit , whose Queries are cited , and commended by him , confesseth Query 17. That Christ , in respect of his Divine Nature , is in all Places , p 34. What sayest thou T.H. to this ? Dost thou not believe this ? If not , why didst thou cite it without opposing it ?

It was never my Assertion , that the Principle of Divine Light within is but an Effect of Power , or Thing made , as thou beggest the Question , in calling the Light within but an Effect , or meer Creature , Dial. p. 3 , 4 , 46. but that God's Immediate Illumination or In-shining is a Natural Effect , flowing from himself ; which therefore is Divine . I never could intend ( much less affirm ) that all kinds of Effects were in every Respect such as the Cause , though in some sense they are : but God's Immediate Illumination , or Shining in Man , is Natural to himself , and so Divine , as the Effects of the Law written in the Gentiles Hearts were agreeable and natural to the Law it self , which is Spiritual , Holy , Just and Good ; and so were the Effects .

His Proof ( that we deny the Person of Christ without us ) is ve● lame , being from something he would lay hold on , since he did first so accuse us , and that is , Jesus Christ a Person without us is not Scripture-Language , pag. 10. Mark , here he va●ies f●●m the Person of Christ , to Jesus Christ a Person without us ; wherein he has also va●●● in his own words in ●is first Dialogue , p. 9. Jesus Christ , God-Man , a Person without thee — Which Phrase I did and do say is not Scripture-Language , but the Anthropomorphites , who prosest a Personal God , denying him to be an Infinite Spirit : Doth it therefore follow , that I deny the Man Christ Jesus , in his Being either without or within us ? But T.H. his words , God-Man , a Person without thee , equally excluding God under the Limitation of Man and Person without us , he is pleased now to leave out the word God-Man , and to accuse us of Denying the Person of Christ without us ; he should have explained what he means by the Word PERSON ; for though we are not satisfied with the Words before , being Unscriptural , this is no Denying of Jesus Christ in his being either as without us or within us ; We confessing , that he is ascended into Glory far above all Heavens , and that he is at the Father's Right Hand of Power in his Glorious Being — which yet doth not exclude or limit him from being within us .

Of Election T.H. saith , viz. Why art thou so much concerned about Election , who believes no such thing of Persons , either absolute or Conditional ? That Election you generally hold , is only of the Seed , which is Christ himself , p. 11.

He sayes , I do not know his Belief in this Matter ; but I am sure , he mistakes our's . If he counteth us in Error , he should have informed ( and not reproacht ) us . Though we own , That God's Election or Choice is originally of and in the Seed , ( Behold mine Elect. &c. Isa. 42. ) yet this also extends to Men and Women , as chosen in him through Sanctification of the Spirit and Belief of the Truth ; I have chosen you out of the World , saith Christ ; The Saints are a chosen Generation . But an Eternal , Absolute , Personal Election or Reprobation , as held by some Predestinarian Anabaptists , and others , I own not ; nor a Perpetual Hatred to particular Persons , as absolutely and unchangeably designed of God f●om all Eternity : but that in the first place God's Free Love and Saving Grace is free to all Mankind , till Men rej●ct it . He calls all Men to Repentance , tenders Life and Salvation in his Son to all , and condemns none upon meer Will and Pleasure , but for Unbelief and Rebellion , which God is not the Author of . If T.H. deem us in Error herein , he should have Informed ( and not Reviled and Abused ) us .

And seeing he often in his Continuation mentions Election , without explaining his Belief therein ( if he have any settled Belief in the Point ) I ask him ▪

1. First , Whether doth he not intend it as absolutely designed , and unchangeably decreed of God from Eternity to particular Persons ?

2. Whether this be not one main Ground of his and some others consining , or limiting Saving Grace , or Divine Light , to such a narrow Compass as only afforded of God to a few particular Persons ?

3. How should I believe , that God doth not afford a Divine or Saving Light to every Man ( but only to some few ) or that the Light within , that is given to every Man , is but a meer Creature , Natural , Vncertain , Variable , and no Sufficient Rule to direct to God , unless it can be proved unto me , Either that God hath from all Eternity , particularly and absolutely designed and decreed the Eternal Destruction of ( and Hatred to ) the greater part of Mankind , or the Passing them by ( with Displeasure ) for that End ?

Whereas T.H. quotes me for saying : That I cannot believe , that he ( Christ ; ) hath a Personal Being at the right hand of God without all Men , To this he subscribed G. Whitehead , Christ ascended , p. 18.

Those are not my Words , he hath falsly cited them : but these are mine , I cannot believe his Body to be a Carnal Body in Heaven , or that he consists of a Carnal Existence . See Christ Ascended p. 18.

It seems , that by [ Personal Being ] he means such a Carnal Body ; but he doth not vindicate his Brother Newman his asserting Christ to be a Body of Flesh and Blood in Heaven , a Personal Being at the right Hand of God , without all Men remote &c. and this to prove , that Christ doth not dwell in any Man . Which I opposed . The ●o●ition as U●scriptural , the Consequence as false , as not only confining and limiting Christ from his Saints , but God and his right hand also unto a remoteness from his Temple ( how then doth his Right Hand save and uphold us ? ) In all which th●se Baptists shew their too carnal and mean Th●ughts of Jesus Christ ( as in Glory ) and of God , and is right hand of Power , wherein they are fully answered , as also about Christ's Second Coming to Salvation . Christ ascended . p. 17 , 18 , 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 24 , and 69

But when T.H. can neither vindicate his Brother Newman's Limitation or Confinement put upon Christ and G●●'s Right Hand , nor answer my Objections against him ▪ he Queries , viz. Is Christ no ●t●●rw sc●● God's Right Hand , then as he is in you p. 43. and wi●h this agrees the Socinians * * If T.H. did not pick and call out of our Adversaries Book●●o● t●●●● his Butchery ●gainst us , but 〈◊〉 . In partially Mo●●rate , we should have fairer Deali●g● than we have from ●im . false : Inference drawn from my Words , Controversie ended p. 48.49 . his Words are , It seems then that Jesus Christ is no otherwise in Heaven , then he is in the Saints , which is as false , as his Saying , that we do absolutely deny Christ to be a Man , p. 47. herein both the Water-Baptist & Socinian have drawn a false Inference upon my Objection ; for though I 〈…〉 that Christs being in Glory at God's r●●●th●●d of Power is no Proof , that he is not in Man 〈◊〉 is 〈◊〉 be proved that God , and his right hand are 〈◊〉 only to a remoteness from all Men , and so that he is not Infinite God , or that his right hand is meerly to be taken Literally , as a Man's hand ) It follows not that I intend , that Jesus Christ is not otherwise in Heaven at God's right hand then as in the Saints on Earth ; for his Exaltation and Glory ( into which he is ascended not only into the Heavens , but far above the Heavens ) Transcends that Degree attained in these Suffering Earthly Tabernacles ; his inaccessible Glory is above Men and Angels , above all Suffering Natures and Conditions ; he is made higher then the Heavens , in all things hath the Preheminence , yet not excluded nor limited from his People ( so far as they are made capable to receive him ) nor from being touched with the feeling of their Infirmities .

And it is said , whilst we are at home ( or Strangers ) in the Body , we are absent from the Lord . 2 Cor. 5. which though it cannot be as remotely separate from his Presence , yet in Comparison of that more Full and Glorious Enjoyment , that we shall have of him when absent from the Body , there is a Degree of Absence while Strangers in the Body , howbeit by Faith , whereby we now walk , we have both a living Knowledge and Enjoyment of him , and walk with him , being the Sons of God , though it appears not what we shall be .

The Socinian tells u● of a Personal Christ ; Con. End . Pag 47. and that the Man Jesus , our Lord ( although he is the Eternal God , has in Heaven a place remote from Earth , a Humane Body p 49.

But doth he believe , that Jesus Christ is the Eternal God ? I cannot think it while he imagins him to be a Personal Christ or Humane Body so ●●●●ted or confined into a Remoteness ,

But seeing these Anabaptists & Socinians do so much concur in their opposing us , because we cannot own their Limitations , and Unscriptural Terms about Christ's Being . I ask both the Author of Controversie Ended , and Tho Hicks , If they really believe , that Jesus Christ is a Humane Body of Flesh , Blood and Bones , and in that Sense a Personal Being , not in Man , according to J. Newman ? or that he consists of a Humane Body of Flesh and Bones , according to Henry Grigg in his Light from the Sun , p. 30 , 31.33 ? But is it good Doctrine to say , that his Glorious Body that we shall be fashioned like unto , is a Humane Body ? If in th●se things they agree , as they seem to do , then doth it not follow , that they must concur in the Consequences , viz That though they own three distinct Persons in the Deity , yet not Coeternal Persons , but that Jesus Christ is a meer Creature , a Personal Being , or Humane Body of Flesh , Blood and Bones , and therein limited ? But if Socinians do not look upon Christ's Personal Being in that gross Sense , but rather with respect to his Spiritual Existence , then is not Christ confined to a Remoteness , from the Saints ; for they have received of the Spirit of the Son , but then what mean these Men by Humane Body in Heaven ? Is not Humane Body an Earthly Body ? Hence it seems we must look upon Personal Being as applicable to the Father , Son and Spirit in a different Sense , viz. 1. To the Being of God . 2. To the Being of Christ as a Creature . 3. Else to the Body that he took upon him in time , whereas Christ the Son of God , who took upon him that Body , that was prepared for him , did pre-exist ( or was before ) that Body , and therefore he himself consists not of such a Personal , Created Being , or Humane gross Body , as is limitable like our Earthly Bodies ( the Asserters of a Trinity of three distinct Persons , do not call them so many Personal Beings , but distinguish the Personallity from the Being ) and though Christ was made a little lower then the Angels in his Suffering State in the dayes of his Flesh on Earth , yet he is above Angels in his Glorified Estate , and surely then his Glorious Being and Body must not be inferiour to their's .

If T.H. would strictly limit us to confess our Creed in his terms , 't is meet they should be strictly defined and he to be at some Certainty without varying therein , as from [ Jesus Christ , God Man , a Person without thee ] to [ Jesus Christ hath a Personal Being at God's Right Hand without us ] ( I question , whether he rightly knows either what Person , Being , Essence or Substance is ) In the first he concludes God as well as Man under the Limitation of Person without , in the second that Christ hath a Personal Being without us ; how then doth God and Christ consist thereof ? or is that Personal Being ? But if by [ Personal Being ] he intends an Intelligent Being , or Rational Substance , I grant , Christ is such a Being or Substance : or if by Personal Being he means , a Body distinct from our's , I believe , he hath a Spiritual Glorious Body , distinct from all these Earthly Sublunary Bodies .

But for T.H. he hath as little Knowledg of Christ's Personal Being ( as he calls it ) in Heaven , as he hath Scripture for this Phrase , or Faith in his Light within , if by Personal Being he means the Manhood of Christ , our confessing the Man Christ as Mediator , is sufficiently evinced , and the Socinian clears me in his Controversie Ended , pag. 50. where he saith , Geo. Whitehead useth the word Manhood , viz. he took upon him the Manhood in time .

Is the Heavens that must retain him only the Hearts of Men ? p 43.

It is not the Heavens must retain him , but whom the Heaven must receive , &c. Acts 3.21 . and this is above and larger then the Hearts of Men. Where proves he by Scripture , that Christ's Second Coming without Sin to Salvation is a Personal Coming ? while he answers not this , he sayes nothing to purpose about it , p. 43 , 44. and answers not what I have writ , Christ Ascended , p. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24.

But is it a Contradiction in me to confess , that Christ arose with the same Body that was Crucified and put to Death , and that he ascended into Glory , and yet either to say , that I cannot believe his Body to be a Carnal Body in Heaven ; and these words are not Scripture-Language , viz. to say , that Christ is a Body of Flesh , Blood and Bones , a Personal Being at God's Right Hand , remote , and not in Man ; or that his Second Coming without Sin unto Salvation is seen Spiritually , not Carnally ; and that they are like to be disappointed of their Hope and Expectation , who are expecting , that Christ's Second Coming or Appearance to Salvation will be such a Personal Coming , and his Reign a Personal Reign ? The Believers in the primitive Christians dayes , who looked for him , Heb. 9.28 . were not thus disappointed of their Hopes and Expectations .

But to say , I cannot believe that Christ ascended 〈◊〉 the same Body which rose from the Dead &c. p. 44 . 〈◊〉 one of my Words , though he cites them for mine , O gross Forgery ! 〈◊〉 then to infer upon is that I did but dissemble in the first , viz. in saying , that Christ arose with the same Body that was crucified and put to Death , and that he ascended into Glory . God , who knows my Sincerity , will judge this Forger of Falsh●●ds and Slanders against me ! & my Conscience bears me Record in the Sight of God , I speak my Belief sincer●ly , without Dissimulation .

Touching the Body of Christ , he answers not the Objection he layes down in my name , viz. Where doth the Scripture say , that Christ's Glorified Body in Heaven is of an Humane Nature ? p. 45.

Whereas T.H. queries , Doth not the Scripture say , that the same Jesus that went away , shall in like manner come again , Acts 1.10 , 11. And then frames the Answer for us thus , viz.

Quak.

I deny he shall come visibly ; and though it be said in like manner , yet every like is not the same . And to this he subscribes Whitehead , pag. 22. of Christ Ascended .

And then for Answer saith , Is not this a plain Denyal of the Second Personal Coming of Christ , Contin . p 43.

To all which I answer , In his subscribing my Name to these as my words , viz. that I deny he shall come visibly , he hath abused me and my Name with a Forgery of his own , they are not my words . But I quoting Rev. 1.7 , 8 , 13 , 14 , 16. about Christ's Appearance , I said , In none of which is Jesus Christ called a Body of Flesh , Blood and Bones visibly to come again ; but that he is Alpha and Omega , the First and the Last , vers. 11. he proves not by Scripture , that Christ's Second Coming to Salvation is such a Personal Coming , as he imagins ; but in like manner he shall come again . It s true , I said , every like Manner is not the very same , nor all Clouds the same , Christ Ascend . p. 22 , 23. and therein I would be understood , that though I own Christ's Coming again the second time to Salvation as certain and manifest , as he was seen to ascend , when the Cloud received him out of their Sight , who stood gazing up into Heaven ; yet he after that came again , and signally appeared variously to divers , and in a more glorious Manner then he was seen to ascend ; for he ascended into Glory , which his Coming again doth not divest him of : and he shall be universally seen to some Men's Terror and Sorrow , and to others great Comfort and Joy . To Paul he appeared in a Heavenly Vision or Light from Heaven above the Brightness of the Sun , in so much that he fell down to the Earth , and was without sight for three dayes ; So that he could not stand gazing at his Coming , as the Men of Gallilee did at his ascending . And when John was in the Spirit , he appeared to him , so that his Eyes were as a Flame of Fire , his Countenance as the Sun shineth in his Strength ; insomuch that he said , When I saw him , I fell at his Feet as Dead , Rev. 1.13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. So that John could not stand gazing at this Appearance , which is like unto the Angel's Appearance unto Daniel in his great Vision , insomuch that he said , there remained no Strength in me , see Dan. 10 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. compared with Rev. 1.13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17. And I must own Christ's Coming universally in his Kingdom , and the Glory of his Father to be after a more Transcendent Manner and Higher Glory , then Men shall be able to stand Gazing at , as they did at his Ascension ; And must conclude , that 't is a Design of Satan , to keep some Men in Carnal Imaginations , and dark Thoughts of an Humane Personal Christ , consisting either of Flesh , Blood and Bones like theirs , or of Flesh and Bones without Blood ; and so of God's Right Hand , as limited to that Remoteness , that they neglect to wait for Christ's Inward and Spiritual Appearance , and the Knowledge of God's Right Hand near them , to save a●d preserve them from Sin and Death ; In this the Enemy hath deceived them , and the Devil blinded them from the Spiritual and Saving Knowledge of Christ , and his coming in his Kingdom .

But why must I be counted guilty of vile Hypocrisie ? Is it for saying , Every Man has not the Son that is revealedly and unitedly in Possession , which was my very Intent ) and yet a Light of the Son appears in every Man in some degree ? or for denying that this Light is a meer Creature , and asserting , that in him was Life , and the Life was the Light of Men ; and this Life and Light is Divine and Increated , * * In what Sense Christ is in Man , and in what not , is explained , Serious Apology , p. 35. Nat. Christ . p. 49. p. 46 , 47. I am still of the same Mind ; and though the Man repeats some of my Words , he hath brought me no Argument to Convince me , that this Life , which is the Light of Men , is but a meer Creature ; But if it be Divine and Increated , he takes it for granted it must needs be Christ ; And let it be so then , if it must either be a meer Creature , or else Christ ( though he is not revealedly in every Man , neither do Reprobates know Christ in them ; and he that hates his Brother hath no Eternal Life abiding in him . )

Well , I affirm then , that there is an Immediate , Divine Light of God and Christ in every Man ( to which their Minds , Reason and Understandings are to be directed ) and thus far , or in this sense , God and Christ is in all , and through all , even in them , who yet know him not , in whom his Light is vailed and obscured .

But mark T.H. his great Charge in his first Dialogue , p. 3. 'T is Blasphemy to say , that the Light in Man is God or Christ . Is it so ? How agrees this with their saying , That Christ in respect of his Divine Nature is in all places , and that Christ is the Life and Light of Men ? If in respect of his Divine Nature he be Christ , then is Christ in all places ; how then shall this agree with his saying , 't is Blasphemy to say , that God and Christ is the Light in Man ? Seeing he cannot do it , let 's endeavour it ; I suppose by the Light in Man ●e means Natural Reason , or else the Spirit of Man ; indeed that is neither God , Christ , nor the Light , but Blasphemy to affirm it is : But that Light in Man , which we contend for , and direct to , is an Immediate In-shining of Divine Light upon Man's Conscience , that kindleth and lighteth Man's Spirit , and maketh it bec●me the Candle of the Lord , which shews him Good and Evil , and moves him to decline Evil , and excites him to Good ; and this with resp●ct to God and his own Salvation .

〈…〉 who deny Christ to be the Light , through 〈…〉 every Man , or him to be the Light and ●ife of 〈◊〉 , are A●●ichrists , as E.B. saith , 〈…〉 T.H. opposeth this , he opposeth his own Concession .

T.H. excepts against my saying , In the New Covenant God is the Teacher of his People himself by his Immediate Spirit , Power and Unction within , which I still affirm , and he cannot confute , but questions , If so ?

1st , Wherefore were Apostles , Prophets , Evangelists , Pastors , Teachers given and set in the Church for the Work of the Ministry ? p. 65.

Answ. Hereby he hath implyed , as if the Work of the Ministry did argue , that God is not the Teacher of his People in the New Covenant , when both true Prophets and Ministers are taught by ●im , and tell us , that he is , and we must wait on him ●or that End ; which implies no Defect in the Anointing within , any more then John's Epistle did , wherein he directs them to , and testifies of the Sufficiency of the Anointing within to teach them , 1 John 2.

2. Why do you set up a Ministry among your selves ? p. 65.

False ; 't is of God's setting up , it proceeds from the Holy Unction within ; and God hath blest our Ministry with his Presence , for the turning many from Darkness to Light ▪ and from Men's Corrupt and Lifeless Preaching to the Anointing within ; and this you Angry Water-Baptists cannot hinder with all your Quarrelling and Reviling .

3. Why do you appoint your Ministers before-hand to speak at su●h a Place at such a Time ? p. 66.

A gross Falshood ; we appoint them not so to do ; they attend each Man upon God's Call and Motion in themselves , and in Subjection to him is our Society ; we do neither appoint them to Preach nor Pray , as Baptists were wont ●o do , saying , Brother , do you Preach , or do ●ou Pra● , and then the Brother to make Answer ▪ Nay , pr●● Brother do you , ●ou are more able then I , &c. on such Motions you can Preach or Pray without feeling any immediate Motion from God's Spirit to either .

4. You invite others to your Silent Meetings , telling us , they will be such ; how are you assur●d that those you invite may not be moved to speak ? p. 66.

False ●gain , we do not conclude before-hand they will be wholly Silent Meetings , nor limit the Lord from moving any one to speak in them .

Whereas he abuseth our Distinction between the Soul of Man , Cont. p. 40. and its Saviour , as if it were but the same that 's between Christ and his In shining Light or Gift in Man , or between God and some part of himself ( supposed . )

Answ. Man's Soul and ●s Saviour are distinct Beings , the one Creatural ( having a Beginning ) and the other Divine and Infinite : Christ and his Light within , which we vindicate , are but one in Being ; It s grosly Fals● , That the Meaning of my Distinction must b● , That Christ is not Divine and Increated , but his Light is , p. ●0 . For the Meaning of mine is between the Giver and the Immediate Gift , as flowing from him ; the Fountain and the Stream , the Sun and its immediate Shining . God is the Fulness of Light and Life , and yet it s by degrees , that he makes known his Discoveries or In-shining in Man : but my Distinction between the Soul of Man and its Saviour is of another kind , as appears by my citing those Scriptures in the Cas● , viz. Rom. 2.9 . and Isaiah 3.9 . The Distiction is plain , see Dipper Plunged . pag. 15. and The NATVRE OF CHRISTIANITY , pag. 15 , 17 , and 27.

I may not well omit briefly to retro-inspect some perverse and corrupt Passages in Tho. Hicks his Continuation . I still affirm it a gross Slander , that the Quakers account the Blood of Christ no more then an Vnholy or Common thing , Dial. p. 9. and no more then the Blood of a Common Thief , Contin . p 4.

And our asserting the Sufficiency of the Light of Christ-within to bring to eternal Life proves neither : nor doth his Inference follow or amount to any Proof against us , vizt. where he saith , Then the Shedding of Christ's Blood upon the Cross was needless , Contin . p. 4. which is as good an Argument as to say , If God makes manifest any thing in Man that 's Saving , then all the outward Testimonies of his Love to Man were needless : and thus he might as well argue against the Sufficiency of his Spirit , Ingrafted Word , Life or Light of his Son in Man ( in what Age soever ) and tell us , the shedding of Christs Blood on the Cross ( which was an Act of his Persecutors and Murderers ) supplies the Defect of all Inward Manifestations , how Spiritual and Divine soever . O what profund Divinity and exquisite Logick is this !

His other Proofs ( as charged upon the Quakers ) are but Additions to his Slander and Forgery before , vizt. 1 That the Sufferings of Christ were only Exemplary . 2 That the Mystery of Iniquity lies in the Blood of Christ .

To the first I say [ only ] is added , yet Christ left us an Example of perfect Obedience and Holiness , that we should follow his Steps .

To the second ; 't is gross and blasphemous to say , the Mystery of Iniquity lyes in the Blood of Christ , and 〈◊〉 of the Quakers Assertion ; but that it lyes in the corrupt Mind , that carnally and falsly applies it , to ●●se and cover it self in Sin and Iniquity : For we affirm , viz.

1st , That Jesus Christ in the Flesh was more th●● a meet Exemple of Holiness .

2dly , And his Blood was of peculiar Value and Estimation with God .

Thomas Hicks Proceeds in his Envy and Falshood sti●●●● bring our Sufferings into Dis-esteem , viz. 〈…〉 People , that ever boasted so vainly of their Sufferings 〈◊〉 you do , that scarce a Pamphlet can come out from yo● 〈◊〉 but the World must hear of your Brags of this kind , Contin . p. 6.

A manifest and two-fold Falshood : for ,

1st , We do not vainly boast of our Sufferings , but have rej●yced in Christ Jesus that we have been counted worthy to suffer for his Name , when you , who now enjoy our Prosperity , durst not shew your Heads in publick for your Profession or Worship , but fled into Corners and Obscurities , and your publick Meetings were deserted , and put by . For thy part T.H. I do not think thou hast much Suffering for Conscience ( or any for Christ ) to boast of .

2. [ Scarce a Pamphlet ] Is also false ; for many of our Bookes and Papers relate not our Sufferings ( but other Subjects ) much less vainly boast or brag thereof : But it seems , that it both judges and vexes thee and such Creeping , Envious Spirits to hear of our deep Sufferings , since they have had such a blessed Effect in the Nation , as the inclining the Hearts of many to the Living Truth , and the Increase of our Number in it .

Thou T.H. and such Envious Spirits are most quiet towards us , when you see us under Persecution ; and appear most outragious against us , when we have Liberty , as if you were discontented and perplexed at our Liberties , and as desirous of Persecution and Ruin upon us .

3. I am not sorry that I was made Instrumental in obtaining the Liberty of some of thy Brethren the Baptists out of Prison the last Som●er , who among a great Number of our Friends were released ; though I am but sorrily and badly requited by thee : but thou art one of them who art more ready to persecute and scandalize our Sufferings , then to suffer or sympathize with them that suffer for Conscience sake : but have not some of thy Brethren both commended of our Sufferings , and the Service thereof both to themselves and other Dissenters ? why then dost thou insinuate , as if Carnal Interest , Wills and Lusts were our chief Motive to suffer ? God , and his Witness in many Consciences will judge thee for this gross Abuse .

Again T.H. did most falsly insinuate ( though by way of Query ) That our Sufferings were only to satisfie our Wills and Lusts , and for Carnal Advantage ; which to excuse he now saith ; In this I only queried , what it should be , that doth influence you to suffer ; forasmuch as you deny that this Body shall rise ? And G.F. maintains , that the Soul is part of God's Being . Contin . p. 6.

1. To the first I answer , that every Seed shall have its own Body as it pleaseth God , and every Man shall be reserved spiritually in his own proper Being , though not in the gross fleshly Form : Is this either to deny the Resurrection , or an Eternal Advantage ?

2. To the second , G.F. doth not so speak of the Soul or Spirit of Man ( nor are his Words directly and truly cited ) but of the Immediate Inspiration of God ( or original Life or Soul of Man's Soul ) by which Man became Living , a Living Soul ; in this he queries , Is not that of God which came out from God ?

3. It s an absurd and most abusive Insinuation , that our Sufferings either were or could be for any carnal Advantage or Interest , seeing we freely have often offered up our Lives and our All in this World therein .

4. It s still a manifest Slander , that we deny any Eternal Advantage to Persons after Death ; neither is it any ( much less direct ) Consequence of our saying , Not that Body which thou sowest , shall be ; and Flesh and Blood shall not inherit the Kingdom of God ; or That the Body which God giveth , shall not be in a Fleshly , but in a Spiritual Form , as Tho. Collier confesseth ; dare he say , this is to deny any Eternal Advantage ? But with T.H. This is no more then the Genuine and a direct Consequence of denying the Resurrection of this Body ; Is it not ? then the reaping Eternal Advantage must be placed upon this Earthly Tabernacle or Carnal Body , though it must be dissolved , and no New one to be created , according to his former Doctrine Dial. p. 58. O wonderful Philosophy ! Eternal Advantage placed upon these same Earthly Bodies , yet they not to be renewed by Creation , after dissolved and turned to Dust ! and how contrary to the Apostles Testimony is his so much placing Eternal Advantage upon this Earthly disolvable Body ? see the 2. Cor. 5 , 1 2 , 8. Phil. 1.21.23 . Our experiencing Christ's second Appearance without Sin unto Salvation in Answer to our Hope , and testifying to Eternal Life and Felicity as Inwardly and Spiritually receiv'd by those that now suffer for Christ , can be no Denyal of any Future or Eternal Advantage ( according to his Instance against me p. 7. ) seeing we know , that to live is Christ , and to dy is Gain unto us ; they that walk up to his Light in them here , cannot miss of an Eternal Advantage hereafter : Our light Affliction , which is but for a moment worketh for is a far more exceeding weight of Glory , see 2 , Cor. 4 , 10 , 11. to the end of the Chapter .

Concerning Justification , Imputation and Sanctification p. 50 , 51 , 52 ▪ 53 , 54 , 55 , 56 , 57 58 wherein we differ , he is fully answered in our Books , viz. Divin . Chr. Serious Apol.

But where he saith , viz. I know of none , that hold Justification of Persons in their Vngodliness p. 55. Are there not those , that hold Justification before Sanctification ? or in a sinful Estate by a meer Imputatation ? And those that thus argue for it by the Rule of Contraries , As Christ was made to be Sin for us , who knew no Sin : ( i.e. by an inherent Guilt or Operations of Sin in him ) so we are made the Righteousness of God in him ? they adding [ as and so ; as he , so we ] i.e. we are not actually made Righteous by any inherent Righteousness or Holiness of Christ wrought in us any more then Christ was made Sin ; but reckened Righteous only from his active and passive Obedience without us ; This Doctrine we have not only opposed , but refuted ▪ Divin . Christ . Ser. Apol. The wicked Slander he calls upon us in this , is his own . T.H. we plead not for a Righteousness Imputed to overthrow a Righteousness Inherent , or the Exercise of Christian Virtue p. 55. But do you not oppose a Righteousness inherent , as to Justification ? or deny , that those Christian Virtues within are reckoned or esteemed of God unto Justification ?

T.H.

'T is you would separate and divide them , not we . p. 55. False ; we make no such Separation between Christ's Righteousness Inherent in us , and Justification on the Imputation as ours , we experiencing a Participation thereof , Christ being made unto us both Righteousness , Sanctification & Redemption .

T.H.

Doth not this import , that a Man must be formally Just , before he be Justified ; for nothing is imputed or reckoned to us ( according to your Reasoning ) but what is inherent in us ? p. 55.

Answ.

[ Your Reasoning ] It seems 't is not his then , would he not here separate and divide between a Righteousness imputed , and a Righteousness inherent , or the Exercise of Christian Virtues ? if so be that a man must be justified ( i.e. in his Sense ) imputed , or accounted Righteous , before he be formally just ? how agrees this with his Concession before , viz. that they would not separate & divide between Imputed & Inherent Righteousness ?

T.H.

I would ask you , Whether Remission of Sins be not one part of Justification ?

Answ.

yes : 't is a Degreee of it , the next Step to an absolute Justification ; Remission is of Sins past , receiv'd upon true Repentance , and Conversion from ●in to newness of Life ; Justification and Acceptance with God in Christ is enjoyed in the Newness of Life by such as continue in sincere Obedience to Christ .

This Remission , Pardon or Justification from Sins past , though not inherent in the Natural Fallen or Sinful Man , yet 't is inwardly received through Faith in the Name of Christ , by such as truly depart from Sin and Evil , and give up to serve the Living God .

T.H.

Certainly he that 's pardon'd must be a Sinner , p. 56.

Answ.

No , He must be one that ceaseth from Sin ; for , if I sin , then thou markest me , and thou wilt not acquit me from mine Iniquity , Job 10.14 . And certainly , he that 's not acquited , is not pardon'd nor justify'd . But I must confess , ●e somewhat mends the Matter in adding , viz. That is such that were so ( viz. Sinners ) till Justified , not such as remain so being Justified , p. 56. At length we agree in this , 1st , That such as are pardoned , were sometimes Sinners , & Disobedient before . 2. But being pardoned and justified by the Grace of God in his beloved Son , they do not remain Disobedient ; therefore they that remain Sinners and Disobedient , are not in a Justified State .

I had writ something against T. Hicks's gross Abuse of our Reputation as we are Men , * * Contin . p. 59 , 60 , 61 , 62 , 63 , 64 , 65 , 66 , 67 , 68 , 69. as well as Christians , by his most false and Unjust Consequences he draws from our Owning the Light within as the Rule , & Immediate Motions & Directions of the Spirit of Christ within ( especially in Matters of Worship ) & T.H. his Persecuting Spirit , in his falsly Accusing us with Disrespect to Parents , Magistrates &c. being destructive to all Humane Society ; But W.P. having reprehended him in these things in his part before , I forbear to publish mine at present ; for I have in this endeavoured Brevity .

G.W.

THE Present Controversie Drawing to an End .

Or those Doctrines and Principles , which have been chiefly Controverted between us , Granted and Confest to by our present Opposer Thomas Hicks , and his Brethren .

Here the Reader may see , how like to us called Quakers , divers of the Baptist-Teachers have been made some times to speak and hold forth Truth in Words ; which I would have them seriously to review , and lay aside all Envy and Prejudice , which hath caused so much Contradiction and Gain-saying on their parts , both to themselves , and the Truth professed by us .

Our Principles and their Concessions truly Stated and Compared .

1. Quaker .

THat God is , and that he is Light , the Eternal Word of Life and Power , ( which was with God , &c was God ) was that , in which was Life , and the Life was the Light of Men ; and that was the True Light , that enlightens every Man coming into the World , John 1.1 , 4 , 9.

Baptist .

Christ in you , and he is the Life and Light of Men , Dial. p. 22. And Jesus Christ is God , the most high God , of the same Substance and Essence , H.G. Light from the Sun , p. 83 , 84 , &c.

II. Qua.

The Light of Christ , or , the Eternal Word in Man is Divine and Increated .

Bap.

The Lord Jesus Christ , as the Eternal Word enlightens all Men and Women , that come into the World , Light from the Sun of Righteousness , p. 8.

III. Qua.

God is Infinite and Omni-present , and his Presence doth both afford Life , Virtue and Light to Man : and Jesus Christ as God over all in respect of his Divinity , or Divine Nature is therefore in all , through all , and over all , though not revealedly nor unitedly .

Bap.

Christ in respect of his Divine Nature is in all places , Contin . pag. 34. How could you call the Light Within Christ , if some Scriptures had not mentioned Christ in you , and that he is the Life and Light of Men , Dial. p. 22.

IV. Qua.

The Light of Christ in Man is a certain Rule and Guide to direct Man out of Sin and Death into the Way of Life and Peace ; and for that End ought to be obeyed .

Bap.

I grant , it ought to be Obeyed : I acknowledge , there is something within , that checks for many Evils , and excites to many Good Things , and that I ought to shun those Evils , and do that Good . It will be our Wisdom , yea our Duty to attend to the Light Within , we being accountable to God for every Dispensation of Light , Dial. p. 7 , 8 , 13.

V. Qua.

Though this Divine Life or Light of the Son of God be manifest by Degrees in Man , yet the Degrees alter not the Property of it ; and it ought to be obeyed with respect to God , and Man 's own Salvation .

Bap.

No Disparagement to the Light Within — Each Degree of Light is Serviceable to its End , Dial. p. 36.

VI. Qua.

This Light Within is that General Rule extending to Man alwayes , or throughout Ages ; and that is the Will of God , that Man should alwayes be under the Obligation of this Rule , that he might acknowledg God's Soveraignity and Power , and be in Subjection to him , as having the sole right to Rule in the Creation , that Man may truly discharge the Duty he owes to his Maker , in true Obedience and Worship .

Bap.

Indeed 't is not to be denyed , but that Man was alwayes under an Obligation of a Rule , that God's Soveraignity over him , and his Inferiority unto God might be acknowledged — This Rule must be the Will of God revealed to us — for it is the Will of God , which is the Formal Reason of the Obligation . The Will of God being the Ground of the Creation of Men and Ange●s ; therefore as it is the Ground of their Being , it must be the Rule of their Acting , Dial. pag. 31. There was something commendable in the Heathens , p. 36. That Light in every Man , that doth convince of Sin , and reprove him for Sin , Christ , as he was the Wo●● with G●d so he was the Light of the World , &c. W. Burnet's Capit●● p●in . p. 8 , 10 , 16 , 17.

VII . Qua.

That the Holy Spirit , Unction or Living Word within ( which is received by them that wait in , and obey the Light thereof ) is to be preferred as a more Eminent and Universal Rule , then the Scriptures ; and it opens them , and brings Man to the true Understanding of them , and leads him into all Truth as he obeyes it .

Bap.

Abel , Enoch , Abraham , Isaac , Jacob , Noah , &c. had a Sufficient Rule before the Scriptures were written ( viz. ) the Spirit 's Rule , God's Speaking and Directions from his own Mouth — and that they had a more Infallible Word to wa●k by , then now is to us . For 't is possible , that some Scriptures may be corrupted , having been in the hands of corrupted Men. The Scriptures may be and is corrupted by Man — This may be gra●ted , that the Spirit is the Rule — Of more Efficacy then the Letter — The Spirit is greater then the Letter , Jo. Newman's Light Within , page 19 , 20 , 104 , 105 , 106 , 108 , 110 , 112.

VIII . Qua.

'T is possible for True Believers , through the Power and Help of Jesus Christ , to attain to such a Perfection in this Life , as the keeping the Commandments of God .

Bap.

The Spirit of God assures us , that they who are subject to , and keep the Commandments of God , are the Children of God ; and they who do not , are Lyars , 1 John 2.3 , 4. cap. 5.2 , 3. Contin . p. 61.

IX . Qua.

That Remission , and Pardon of Sins past thr●ugh the Blood & Righteousness of Christ Jesus , & t●e Justification of Persons ( whether it import the making ; or declaring them Righteous in Christ by a Living Faith ) are neither imputed , nor reckon'd of God t● th●m in an Unconverted , Unsanctified , Disobedient or Ungodly State , but to the truly Repentant , Converted , Believing and Obedient Souls .

Bap.

I know of none , that hold Justification of Persons in their Vngodliness . We plead not for a Righteousness Imputed to overthrow a Righteousness Inherent , or the Exercise of Christian Vertues — He that is pardoned , were a Sinner till justified ; not such that remain so being sati●fied , Contin . p. 55 , 56. The Saints are made the Righteousness of God ; that is , God now , as in Christ , d●●●'s and ●●●s in the Saints h● h●●●pirit , writes his Law in their Hearts , makes them Partakers of his own Nature , and so goes o● in Fulfilling his own Righteousness in th●● . For the Righteousness of the Law in the Spirit is fulfilled in us , Marrow Christian . p. 38.

X. Qua.

Though the Soul and Spirit of Man be not of God's Divine and Infinite Being , but related ●o the Being of Man , and ( as Corruptible ) hath a mut●bl● Habit ; yet as we are his Off-spring , and Man is the Image and Glory of God , the Original ●ife , o● Soul of the Soul , that came from God , and is immutable , is of his own Being . In short , God ( in whom we live , move and have our Being ) is the Life of Lives , and Great Soul of Son's and the Soul th●t is Saved and United to God , doth partake of his Divine Nature ; and he that is joyned to the Lord , is one Spirit .

Bap.

The Condescension of God and Christ into the Hearts of his People to wo●k up his Saints into the s●●● Nature with himself , &c. God a●d Christ i● Holy ; so his Word is Hol● ; and through Faith in t●is 〈◊〉 Christians are wrought up into the Nature of it self , and into God . J. Newman 's Book . Light Within , p 78 , 84 , 87 , 88. There were the Prope●ties o● G●● i● some measure imparted to Adam . Adam was in the Image of God , in respect of Eternity he h●d given h●m an Everlasting Being , Marrow of Christianity , pag. 4 , 5. Christ was both the Power and Wi●dom ●f God : and as Christ , so all the Saints are 〈◊〉 one i● th●s Wisdom . Christ is made unto us Wisdom , n●t only by w●y of Imputation , but by the Operati●n of the same ●pirit , who dwells as truly in every Believer , as in Christ , ibid. pag. 34 , 35. ( And have not s●me of their Brethren conf●st , That there is a kind ●f Infiniteness in the Soul ? )

XI . Qua.

The Children of the Resurrection shall be equal unto the Angels of God in Heaven , and their Bodies not Natural , Earthly , and 〈◊〉 the very Gross M●tt●r , that n●w they are 〈…〉 Celestial , Spiritual , like u●to Chri●●'● 〈◊〉 Body . God giveth a Body , as it pl●as●th 〈◊〉 in Subjection to whose Good Pleasure we 〈◊〉 quiesce , till it be effected , as he se●th 〈…〉 own Praise .

Bap.

That there shall be a Resurrection of the ●ody at the Last Day , is Evident , John 5 ▪ 〈◊〉 11. with 1 Cor. 15. Rev. 20. although 〈…〉 some denyed , and by others too ca●●lly looke● 〈◊〉 Some thinking , that our Bodies of Flesh shall be Raised in the same Form , in which it Dyed , &c. The Form in which they shall be raised , that is a Spiritual Form , not in a Fleshly — It is sown a Natural Body , it is raised a Spiritual Body — When Christ , who is our Life , shall p●e●r we shall appear with him in Glory ; all Flesh shall he sw●llowed up in ●pirit , and our Bodies shall be changed , and made like unto his Glorious Body , Marrow of Christianity , by T.C. pag. 93 , 94 , 95. And those Saints who are alive at the Coming of Christ shall be changed in a Moment , in the Twinkling of an E●e 1 Cor. 15.51 ▪ 52. and so shall be caught up in the Spirit to meet the Lord in the Air , 1 Thes. 4.17 . Ibid. p. 92.

XII . Qua.

The Son of God doth not consist ( or is not made up ) of a Humane Body of Flesh , Blood and Bones : For he was the Word , and One in Being with the Father from Everlasting . But in the Fulness of Time , he took upon him Flesh , or that Body prepared for him ; and being Ascended into Glory , his Body is a Glorious Body , surpassing all Humane , Earthly , Carnal and Corruptible Bodies .

Bap.

Christ was a Son by a Spiritual Proceeding and Coming from the Father , who was Eternally One in the Father , Marrow of Ch● . p. 30. Our Bodies shall be changed and made like his Glorious Body , Ibid. p. 95. The● shall be raised in a Spiritual Form , not in a Fleshly , p. 94. The ●on took Flesh upon him , the Word took Fle●h , the Father did prepare him a Body , Dialogue , p. ●5 , 4● , and 83.

XIII . Qua.

Christ being so highly exalted , and Glorified as it God's Right Hand , as he is , can be neither Proof nor Argument , that he is not i● any Man ; nor that either Christ or God's Right Hand is limited and circumscribed to such Remot●ness , as not to be in the True Believers to save and uphold their Souls .

Bap.

When a Soul is satisfied from its Vnion with God , and its Dwelling in God , that all the Administrations and makings forth of God is Love unto it , thus it dwells in Love , and from hence is filled with Joy : It causeth the Soul alwayes to dwell at the Right Hand of God , where is Joy and Pleasure for evermore . Marrow of Christian . p. 28. Christ the Son was Eternally one in the Father ; & so in him all Believers are made by the same Spirit the Adopted Sons of God , being made Partakers of the same Divine Nature . Marrow of Christian . p. 30. Christ dwells Spiritually in all the Saints — If Christ be in you , you shall be sensible of it . Ibid p 31.32 . T●is Indwelling of Christ in his People — God and Christ cannot be separate — Christ in them the Hope of Glory — Newman's Light within , p. 81 , 82 , 83 , 86.

XIV . Qua.

That through Faith in the Power of Christ Perfection , that is , a Freedom from Sin , is attainable ( and comes to be attained ) in this Life by the Soul , that experienceth the Restauration by Christ .

Bap.

If God in his Son draw up the Soul to himself Jo. 6 , 44. — The more Special and Spiritual Condition of Souls thus drawn up to God in Christ is not only a Restauration to the Condition of the first Adam , with relation to a Freedom from Sin ; this every Believer enjoys by Christ a Freedom , a Justification from Sin : But secondly , every Soul drawn ●p out of it self to God , is brought into the Condition of the second Adam , Marrow Christian . p. 29.

XV. Qua.

That Soul that 's restored unto the New Covenant-Dispensation ( and come to taste , how good he is , to partake of his Spiritual Wisdom , and Counsel therein ) doth own and follow this Spirit , and the Light thereof , as the Chief Rule of Faith , Obedience and Worship , above the Scripture or Letter , and the Spiritual , Saving Knowledge , of God and Christ therein , beyond all Literal Knowledge and Profession of him received from without .

Bap.

This Wisdom ( namely of the Spirit , which is spiritual and heavenly ) sets the Creature out of himself in the Power of God : that Wisdom ( namely of the Flesh and first ●dam , carried on the Creature to the Answering of God in the Letter ( and yet in all this come s●o●t ) This 〈…〉 ( of the Spirit ) carries on the Soul , where It 〈◊〉 is n●●●fter the Oldness of the Letter but after the Newness of the Spirit ▪ In ● w●rd , that Wisdom could not hel● to the Knowledge of God in the Spirit ; This doth . 1 C●r . 1. Marrow of Christian p. 35. Certainl● , that ●oul who hath once tasted , how Good , and how Gracious the Lord is in the Spirit , 〈◊〉 never be satisf●● with ● Knowledge of him in the Letter . The Knowledge of a Spiritual V●i● with God , produceth an acting 〈◊〉 , and ●●er the Spirit of God . How doth the Creature 〈…〉 work , and ●●ls it self even in the Letter of the Gospel , as well as formerly in the Letter of the La● for want of Knowledge of the Vnion in the Spiritual Power of the Lord , Marrow , p. 44.

XVI . Qua.

Christ's Second Appearance , or Coming to the Salvation of them that truly wait and look for him is a Spiritual Appearance or Coming in Sp●●● to s●v● his People , and not ( in Scripture ) call● a P●●●●●d or Fleshly Coming , nor his Reign a Personal Reign in his Kingdom ; for 't is a Spiritual Kingdom , and his Reign in it Spiritual .

Bap.

Christ's Presence ( and so his Kingdom ) will be a Spiritual Presence , and not a Personal — His Reign in the Latter Dayes will not be Personal , but Spiritual . Jesus Christ is no more to be known of the Saints after the Flesh ; therefore his Presence so ; and his Kingdom will not be a Fleshly or Personal Presence and Kingdom , but a Spiritual ; his Glory Spiritual ; his Kingdom not of this World , &c. [ See the Point argu'd at large , Marrow Christian . p. 77 , 78 , 79 , 80 , 81 , 82 , 83 , 84 , to the end of the Section ]

XVII . Qua.

That there is an Immortal and Incorruptible Seed ( of the Nature of Christ Jesus ) to be known in the Soul , whereof true Believers come to be born again , even by the Word of Life and Power , which liveth and abideth forever ; and so comes Christ to be formed , and Spiritually born in them , and they to be renewed up into his Nature and Image .

Bap.

Although we have known Christ after the Flesh , yet know we him no more ; why ? If any Man be in Christ , he is a New Creature , Christ is formed in him after the Spirit , and he comes now to 〈◊〉 a Spiritual Christ within him , Marrow , p. 55. Faith may be acted not only on Christ's Dying 〈◊〉 the Cross , but in Christ's Living in the Soul ; that is my believing . That Christ is Spiritually formed in me , as well as that he dyed for me , Ibid , p. 56.

XVIII . Qua.

We are fully satisfied , that God is so far from having absolutely and particularly decreed Men's Destruction from Eternity ( or designing perpetual and meer voluntary Hatred to particular Persons , or with-holding his Saving Grace from them ) that his Love is in the first place Universal to all Mankind ; his Grace , which brings Salvation , hath appeared , and is free to all Men , till they reject it ; the Appearance whereof is in , and by the Light of his Son in all , which is sufficient to leave all the Disobedient without Excuse , whereby Men are at sometimes put into such a Capacity , as that they may be saved ; and so receive the Benefit , and good End of Christ's Coming , Suffering , Death , and becoming a Ransom for ALL , for a Testimony in due time of God's f●●e Love and Grace . And with this the General Baptists agree , against the Contrary , Partial and Pinching Opinion of the Particular Electioners .

Bap. 1.

We believe , and are very confident , that there is one Lord Jesus Christ , by whom are all things , who is the only begotten Son of God — whom God freely sent into the World ( because of his great Love unto the World ) who as freely gave himself a Ransom for all . 1 Tim. 2.5 , 6. tasting Death for every Man , Heb. 2.9 ▪ a Propitiation for our Sins ; and not for ours only , but also for the Sins of the whole World , 1. Jo. 2.2 .

2. That God is not willing , that any should perish , but that all should come to Repentance , 2. Pet. 3.9 . and the Knowledge of the Truth , that they might be saved , 1 Tim. 2.4 . for which End Christ hath commanded , that the Gospel ( to wit , the glad Tiding of Remission of Sins ) should be preached to every Creature , Ma●k. 16.15 . So that no Man shall eternally suffer in Hell for want of a Christ that dyed for them , but , as the Scripture saith , for denying the Lord that bought them , 2 Pet. 2. or because they believe not in the Name of the only begotten Son of God . Jo. 3 18. Vnbelief therefore being the Cause , why the Just and Righteous God will condemn the Children of Men ▪ it follows against all Contradiction , that all Men at one time or other are put into such a Capacity , as that ( through the Grace of God ) they may be eternally saved , Joh. 1.7 . Act. 17.30 . Mark . 6.6 . Heb. 3.10 , 18.19 . 1 Joh. 5 10. Joh. 3.17 . See Art. 3.4 . of Confession of Faith presented to the King , subscribed by 46 of them .

Serious Reader , I having diligently traversed the present Controversies between some of these Water-Baptists and us , called Quakers , have thus far laboured for Quietness and Reconciliation by thus obviously laying down those Principles and Doctrines of ours , that have been chiefly struck at by the Dialogue-Man , and some others of them ; together with his , and his Brethren's own intermixt Concessions and Assenting to the Truth thereof in most things very nearly concurring in Matter and Substance ; which while he or any of them otherwhiles oppose , and contradict , and count us Impostors , Hereticks , &c. for these Matters , they oppose and contradict themselves like Wavering , Unsettled and Uncertain Persons , not to be credited in their Contentious Work . As for those Passages of Tho. Collier , they were Printed in the Year 1050. ( which was before these Controversies happened between us , and so before their Enmity broke forth , as it doth● and therefore the more to be taken notice of , as being writ from an Unprejudiced Mind , and a Capacity more fit to receive Spiritual Sights and Openings , which divers of them heretofore have had : But now plain Prejudice . Darkness and an Apostacy is come over these Carnal Contenders , who have lost that former Sincerity , Tenderness and Spiritual Desires , that appeared in divers , and now with their Flesh , Darkness , Carnal Imaginations and Selfish Spirits they are Raising up a Smoak , and Darkness against the Glory of this Dispensation of Spirit , Life , Light and Power revealed among us , which will out-live their Enmity , and wear-out their Shadows and Empty Profession ; For this Spiritual , Transcending Dispensation shall Increase , their Shadows shall Decrease , grow into Disesteem , naturally Decay , and by Degrees Vanish thereupon .

G.W. THE END .

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