The due right of presbyteries, or, A peaceable plea for the government of the Church of Scotland ... by Samuel Rutherfurd ...

יהוה THE Way of the Church of Christ In NEW ENGLAND , Measured by the Golden Reed of the SANCTUARY . Or , The way of Churches walking in brotherly equality and independence , or coordination without subjection of one Church to another , examined and measured by the Golden Reed of the Sanctuary . Propositions concerning the supposed visibility and Constitution of independent Churches , examined .

CHAP. 1. SECT. 1. PROP. 1.

THe Church which Christ in his Gospell hath instituted , The way of the Churches . and to which he hath committed the keys of his Kingdome , the power of binding and loosing , the Tables and Scales of the Covenant , the Officers and Consures of his Church , the Administration of all his publick worship and Ordinances , is , coetus fidelium , a company of Believers , meeting in one place , every Lords day , for the administration of the holy ordinances of God to publick edification . 1 Cor. 14. 23. 1 Because it was a company whereof Peter confessing and believing was one , and built on a rock , Mat. 16. 18. a Such as unto whom any offended brother might complaine , Mat. 18. 17. 3 Such as is , to cast out the incestuous ▪ Corinthian , 1 Cor. 5. Which cannot agree to any diocesian , provinciall , or Nationall assemblie .

Ans. From these we question .

Quest. 1. If a company of believers and saints builded by faith , upon the rock Christ , and united in a Church-Covenant , be the only instituted visible Church of the New Testament , to the which Christ hath given the keys :

Let these considerations be weighed .

1. Dist. The matter of an instituted visible Church is one thing , and the instituted visible Church is another , as there be ods betwixt stones and timber , and an house made of stones and timber .

2 Dist. It is one thing to govern the actions of the Church and another thing to governe the Church , the Moderator of any Synod , doth govern the actions of the Synod , but he is not for that a Governour , Ruler , and Pastor of the Synod . Or , ordering actions , and governing men are diverse things .

3. Dist. A thing hath first its constituted and accomplished being in matter , forme , efficient and finall causes , before it can performe these operations and actions that flow from that being so constituted , a Church must be a Church , before any Ministeriall Church actions can be performed by it .

4. Dist. It is one thing for a company to performe the actions of a Church mysticall and redeemed of Christ , and another thing to performe actions ministeriall of a Church instituted and ministeriall .

1. Concl. A company of believers professing the truth is the matter of the Church , though they be saints by calling and builded on the rock , yet are they but to the Church instituted , Trelcat . loc . 16. a●t . ● . Tylen . Syntag. disp . 14. de Eccl. as stones to the house . 2. Because they cannot performe the actions of a constituted Church , till they be a constituted Church . 3. Our Divines call men externally called , the matter of the visible Church , so Trelcatius , Tilenu● , professors

dis. 1. Thes. 19. Profess . leyd . synop pur . Theol. dis. 4. thes. 34. 35 Piscator dis . 23. n. 15 , 16.

Bucan . loc . 41. quest. 7. s. 5.

of Leyden ; Piscator , Bucanus , so say our brethern .

2. Concil. Ordination of Pastors , and election of Officers , administration of the seales of grace , and acts of Church censures , are holden by Gods Word , and by all our Divines , actions of a ministeriall and an instituted visible Church , and if so , according to our third distinction .

It is a wonder how a company of Believers united in Church-Covenant , cannot performe all these , for they are Answer to Quest. 2. united , and so a perfect Church , and yet cannot administrate the Sacraments : for though they be so united , they may want Pastors , who onely can performe these actions , as this

Way of the Church . Ch. Sect , compare with . chap. 2.

Robins . Iustifie . pag. 106.

Confess . Separ . art . 37.

Treatise sayth , and Robinson and the Confession . And it is no lesse wonder that Officers and Rulers who are to feed , and governe the Flock , are but only accidents and not parts , not integrall members of a constituted Church : no perfect Corporation maketh its owne integrall parts or members , a perfect living man doth not make his owne Hands , Feete , or Eyes , the man is not a perfect one in all his members , if all the members be not made with him ; but Officers by preaching make Church-members .

3. Concl. The visible Church which Christ instituted in the Gospel is not formally a company of believers meeting , for publick edification , by common and joynt consent , as this Author sayth . 1. The instituted Church of the New Testament is an organicall body of diverse members , of eyes , eares , feete , hands , of Elders governing , and a people governed . 1 Cor. 12. 14 , 15. Rom. 12. 4 , 5 , 6. Act. 20. 28.

But a company of believers , meeting for publick edification by common consent , are not formally such a body ; for they are a body not Organicall , but all of one and the same nature , all believers and saints by calling , and are not a body of Officers governing , and people governed ; for they are , as they are a visible Church , a single uncompounded body , wanting Officers , and are as yet to choose their Officers : and all thus combined are not Officers , Rom. 10. 14. How shall they preach except they be sent ? 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles ? are all Prophets ? we justly censure the Papists , and amongst them , Bellarmine , who will scarce admit an essentiall Church of believers , but acknowledgeth other three Churches beside , to wit , a representative Church of their Clergy onely , excluding the Laickes Bell de Eccl. li. 3 cap. 2. ( as they call them ) 2 A consistoriall Church of Cardinalls . 3. A virtuall Church , the Pope who hath plenitude of all power in himselfe , against which our writers Calvin , Beza , Tilenus , Iunius , Bucanus , professors of Leyden , Whittaker , willet doe dispute ; so the other extremity can hardly be maintained , that there is an instituted , visible , ministeriall Church to which Christ hath given the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven , exercising Church actions , as to ordaine , and make and un-make Officers and Rulers without any officer at all . The major of our proposition is grantted by our brethren , who cite , 1 Cor. 12. Rom. 12. Acts 20. 28. To prove a single Congregation to be the onely visible Church instituted in the New Testament . Nothing can be said against this , but a Church of Governours and People governed is an instituted visible Church ; but there is an instituted visible Church before there be Governours , but such an instituted Church we cannot read of in Gods Word , which doth and may exercise Church acts of government without any Officers at all .

2. That company cannot be the Church ministeriall instituted by Christ in the New Testament , which cannot meete all of them , every Lords day , as the Church of Corinth did for administration of the holy Ordinances of God , and all his Ordinances to publick edification ; for so this Author describeth a visible instituted Church , 1 Cor. 14. 23. But a company of believers meeting for publick edification , by joynt and common consent cannot meete for the publick administration of all the Ordinances of God , 1. They cannot administer the seales of the Covenant being destitute of the Officers , as the Scripture , and their confession saith , 2. They cannot have the power of publick edification , being destitute of Pastors , because the end cannot be attained without the

1 Cor. 11. 23. Mat. 28. 19.

1 Cor. 1. 17. Confess . art. 37.

meanes appointed of Christ . But Christ for publick edification and Church edification hath given Pastors , Teacher● and other Officers to his Church Eph. 4. 11. 1 Tim. 5. 17. I● is not enough to say , that such a company meeting hath power of Pastorall preaching and administration of the Seales of grace , because they may ordaine and elect Officers , for such publick edification , but 1. we prove , that that which our brethren call the onely instituted visible Church of the New Testament , hath not power to administrate all the Ordinances of Christ , and how then are they a Church ? can we call him a perfect living man , who cannot exercise all the vitall actions , which flow from the nature and essence of a living man ? 2. If this be a good reason that such a company should be the only instituted Church in the New Testament having power of all the Ordinances , because they may appoint Officers , who have such a power ; then any ten believers , who have never sworne the Church-Covenant , meeting in private to exhort one another is also the only instituted Church ministeriall , in the New Testament , for they have power to make such Officers , and may invest themselves in right , to all the Ordinances of Christ , by our brothers Doctrine , 3. All the places cited by the Author , speake of a Church visible made up of , Officers governing , and people governed & as Mat. 16. Mat 18. cannot exclude Pastors who binde on Earth , and in heaven , or Pastors who are stewards , and beare the keyes , as hereafter , I shall prove . Also the Church of Corinth did meete for the administration of the Lords Supper , 1 Cor. 11. 20. and so were a Church of Officers and governed people , they met with Pauls spirit , and the authority of Pastors . 1 Cor. 5. 4. another Church that exercised Discipline , as Collosse Col. 2. 8. was a Church of Officers and people Col. 4. 17. Philippi consisted of Saints , Bishops , and Deacons . Phil. 1. 1. 2. Ephesus of a flocke , and an eldership , Acts 20. 28. so the visible ministeriall Church that the word of God speaketh of , as all the seven Churches of Asia and their Angels , had in them Officers to governe , and people governed , and therefore they were not a number of sole . believers united in a Church-covenant , which in very deed i● but stones and timber , not an house builded of God ; for in the ministeriall Church of the New Testament , there is e●e● a relation betwixt the Elders and the flock : wee desire to to see a Copy of our brethrens instituted visible Church , to the which Elders are neither essentiall , nor integrall parts , for their instituted visible Church hath its compleat being and all its Church-operations , as binding , loosing , ordeining of Officers , before there bee an Edldership in it , and also when the Eldership is ordained , they are not Eyes and Eares to the instituted Church , nor watchmen , because it is a body in essence and operation compleat without officers . 2. the officers are not Governors , for as I trust to prove , they have no act of ministeriall authority of governing ; over the people by our brethrens Doctrine , 2. all their governing is to Rule and moderate the actions of the whole governing Church , which maketh them no wayes to be governours , nor over the believers in the Lord , nor overseers , nor watchmen : as a Preses who moderateth a Judicatorie , a moderator in a Church-meeting , a Prolocutor in a convocation , is not over the Judicatorie , Synod , or meeting , or Convocation . 3. The Eldership are called by them , the adjuncts , the Church , the subject : the subject hath its perfect essence without its accidents and common adjuncts .

2 Quest. Whether or not Christ hath committed the Keys of the Quest. 2. Kingdom of Heaven , to the Church of Believers , which as yet wanteth all Officers , Pastors , Doctors , &c.

The Author sayth , this company of believers and Church which wanteth Officers , and ( as we have heard ) is compleat without them , is the corporation to which Christ hath given the keyes of the Kingdom of Heaven ; which deserveth our brotherly censure : for wee then aske a Scripture for the Lords giving of the keys to Pastors and Elders ; if the keys be given to Peter , Mat. 16. as a professing believer , by what Word of God are they given to Peter , as to an Apostle and Pastor , it would seem the Pastors have not the keys jure Divino ; for by this argument our Divines prove the Bishop not to bee an Office of power and jurisdiction above a Pastor and Presbyter , because the keys were not given to Peter as to the Archbishop , but as to a Pastor of the Church , and indeed this would conclude that Pastors are not Officers of authority and power of jurisdiction , jure Divino .

Hence the question is , if it can be concluded that the keyes of of the Kingdom of Heaven , Mat. 16. Mat. 18. were given to Peter , as he represented all professing believers , or if they were given for the good of professing believers , but to Peter as carrying the person of Apostles , Pastors , and Church-guides ?

1. Distinction , There is one question of the power of the keyes , and to whom they are committed , and another of the exercise of them , and toucheth the government of the Church , if it be popular and democraticall or not ?

2. Dist. It is not inconvenient , but necessary that Christ should give to his Church , gifts , Pastors and Teachers , of the which gifts the Church is not capable , as a subject as if the Church might exercise the Pastor and Doctors place : and yet the Church is capable of these gifts , as the object , and end , because the fruit and effect of these gifts redoundeth to the good of the Church , see a a Parker de po●it . Eccl. l. 3. c. 8. Parker , see the b b C●hol . Paris . pag. 8. Parisian schoole and c c Paul Baynes docesart tyrall . 3. q. concl . 3. pa. 83. Bayner .

3. Distinct. There is a formall ordinary power , and there is a vertuall or extraordinary power .

1. Concl. Christ Iesus hath immediatly himselfe without the intervening power of the Church or men , appointed offices and Officers in his house , and the office of a pastor , and Elder is no lesse immediately From Christ ( for men as Christs Vicars and Instruments can appoint no new Office in the Church ) then the office of the Apostles , Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28. Mat. 28. 19. The Offices are all given to the Church immediatly , and so absolutely , and so the power of the keys , is given to the Church the same way . But the Officers , and key bearers now are given mediatly , and conditionally , by the intervening mediation of the ruling and ministeriall Church , that she shall call such and such , as have the conditions required to the office by Gods Word , 1. Tim. 3. 12 , 3. Hence we see no reason , why the keys can be said to be given to believers , any other wayes , then that they are given for their good .

2. Concl. I deny not , but there is a power virtuall , not formall in the Church of believers , to supply the want of ordination of pastors , or some other acts of the keyes simply necessary , hic & nunc ; this power is virtuall , not formall , and extraordinary not ordinary , not officiall , not properly authoritative , as in a Church in an Iland , where the pastors are dead , or taken away by pest or otherwayes , the people may ordaine Pastors or rather doe that which may supply the defect of ordination , as David without immediate Revelation , from Heaven to direct him , by only the Law of nature , did eate shewbread ; so is the case here , so answer the casuistes and the schoolemen , that a positive Law may yield in case of necessity , to the good of the Church ; so a a Thom. 22. q. 28. art 10 ad 2. Thomas b b Molina tom . 6 tract . 5. dis. 57. n. 6. Molina c c Suarez . Tom. de legib. lib. 2. cap 15. Suarez d d Vasq. 12. dis. 129. cap. 2. Vasquez e e Viguertus in institut Theol. cap. 15. s. 1. Vigverius , f f Sotus de instit li. 2. q. 3. art. 8. Sotus g g Scotus 3. dist. 37. quest. 1. Scotus h h Altisiodore . l. 3 sum tract . 7. cap. 1. Qu. 5. Altisiodorensis i i Durandus 1. Durand k k Gabriel . 3. dist. 37. q. 1. Art. 1. Concl. 2. Gabriel , and consider what the learned l l Voetius des . causa . pap . li. 2. c. ca. 21. sect. 3. 6. Voetius sayth in this . What if in an extreame case of necessity , a private man , endued with gifts and zeale should teach publickly , after the example of the faithfull at Samosaten . Yea and Flavianus and Diodorus preached in Antioch , as m m Theodo . l. 4. ca. 14. c. 24. Theodoret sayth ; yea , saith Voetius , an ordinary ministery might be imposed on a Laick , or private person by the Church , though the presbytery consent not , in case of necessity . God ( sayth n n Gerson par . 2. Sermon Rhen. dom . 2. postpashat Gerson ) may make an immediate intermission of a calling by Bishops ; yea ( sayth o o Anton. 3. l. 3. c. 83. Anton. speaking of necessities Law ) The Pope may commit power of Excommunication , quia est de jure positive , pure Laico & mulieri , to one meere Laicke , or a woman ; though we justifie not this , yet it is hence concluded that God hath not tied himselfe to one set rule of ordinary , positive Lawes : a captive woman ( as Socrates saith ) preached the Gospell to the King and Queen of Iberranes , and they to the people of the Land .

3. Concl. The Author in the foresaid first proposition , will have no instituted visible Church , in the New Testament , but a Congregationall or Parishionall Church , that meeteth together ordinarily , in one place , for the hearing of the Word . But we thinke , as a reasonable man is the first , immediate and principall subject of aptitude to laugh , and the mediate and secondary Subjects are , Peter , Iohn and particular men , so that it is the intention of nature to give these and the like properties , principally and immediately , to the speci●e , and common nature , and not immediately to this or that man ; so are the blessings of the promises , as to bee builded on a Rock ; victory over hell , and such , given principally and immediately to the Catholick and invisible Church , as to the first and principall subject ; and no wayes to a visible Congregation consisting of 30 or 40. professing the Faith of Christ : but onely to them , not as Professors , but to them as they are parts and living members of the true Catholick Church . For sound professors , though united in a Church-covenant , are indeed the mysticall Church , but not as professors , but as sound believers , and therefore these of whom Christ speaketh , Mat. 16. Are builded on a Rock , as true believers ; but the keys are given not to them , but for them , and for their good , as professors making Peters confession , and in Gods purpose to gather them into Christ . But the Text evinceth that these keys are given to Peter , as representing the Church-guides especially , though not excluding believers , giving to them popular consent , and not to Believers , as united in a company of persons in Church-covenant , excluding the Elders .

1. To that Church are the keys given , which is builded on the rock as a house , the house of wisdome , Prov. 9. 1. The house of God , 1 Tim. 3. 15. Heb. 3. 4. By the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles , by Doctors and Teachers , whom Christ hath given , for the building of his house , Eph. 4. 11. But this house is not a company of professing believers united by a Church-covenant and destitute of Pastors and Teachers , but a Church edified by the Word , Seales , and Discipline : Ergo such a Church is not heere understood . The propofition is granted by the Author . I prove the assumption . The Church of believers combined in Church-covenant , but wanting their Pastors and Teachers , is not wisdomes house , nor builded by pastors and Doctors given to edifie and gather the body , but they are only the materialls of the house : yea wanting the pastors , they want Ministeriall power , for pastorall preaching and administrating the Seales , and for that , they want the power of edifying the body of Christ , which is required in a visible Church Eph. 4. 11. Though the building of this Church on the Rock Christ may well be thought to be the inward building of the Catholick and invisible Church in the Faith of Christ , yet as it is promised to the Church , to the which Christ promiseth the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven , it can be no other beside external and Ministeriall building by a publick Ministery .

2. Arg. To these are the keys here promised , who are stewards of the mysteries of God , 1 Cor. 4. 1. And servants of the house by office , 2 Cor. 4. 5. And are by office to open the doores and behave themselves aright in Gods house , 1 Tim. 3. 16. and to divide to these of the house their portion in due season , Mat. 24. 45. and to cut the word , 2 Tim. 2. 15. But a company of professing believers joyned together in a Church-covenant , and destitute of officers , are not stewards by office , nor servants over the house , &c.

Ergo , to such a company the keyes are not here given .

The proposition especially is to be proved ( for the assumption is granted by our brethren and evidently true ) but it is sure by the phrase of Scripture , Esai . 22. 22. And I will lay upon his shouldier the key of the house of David .

〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Clavis a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 apperuit , proveth this . a a Shindler in Lexico . Shindlerus in Lexico , metonymicè significatur , Authoritas , Facultas , potestas omnis gubernationis , iubendo , ac vetando , expediendo ac coercendo , power of government b b Muscul. com . in Is. 22. 22. Insigne acceptae potestatis , Occonoms & Praeposito domûs commendantur claves , quibus potestatem suam administret . Musculus , so c c Calvin comment ib. Gualter Homil. 114. Claves symbolum potestatis , regibus Claves offerunt Calvin : these who are made masters of housholds receive keys , whereby they open and shut , it is a token of power given to Kings d d Iunius . Plenam administrationem Iunius , it noteth a full government , by this borrowed speech , sayth e e Beza in . Ma. aunot . Potestas Ministrorum , in Mat. 16. Beza , is signified the power of Ministers , Isai. 22. Mat. 16. f f Pareus . domus meae faciam te aeconomum Pareus . I shall make the steward of my house , g g Hieron . Clavis , potestas excellentiae Hierom the key is a power of excellency , and h h Chrysostom . Homil. 55. in Mat. Magnam potestatem Chrysostom , i i August . de civit . de lib. 20. ca. 9. potestatem pastoris Augustine , k k Beda in Iohan. Clavis est potestas ligandi & solvendi . Beda sayth the same .

a a li. de fide ad Pet. Fulgentius calleth this the power of binding and loosing given to the Apostles ; so other Scriptures expound the keyes to be a power of office , as Esa. 9. 6. And the government shall be upon his shoulder , Interpreters say , Davids keys are given here , Rev. 3. 7. These things ( saith he ) that hath the key of David , who open●h and no man shutteth , and shutteth and no man openeth , Rev. 1. 18. I have the keys of hell and death , Rev. 9. 1. And to him was given the key of the bottomlesse pit ; so b b Stephan . in thesaur . ling. Graecae . Stephanus on the word , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Clavis . c c Whittakee tom . 2. contr. 4. c● . 5. Whittaker , it signifieth a power of office given to some , and not to all ; as d d Calvin . ib. dissert. de Apostolatu Petri. Calvin here ( saith he ) Christ speaketh of Peters publick office , that is , of his Apostleship e e Bullinger ib. so , Bullinger , f f Erasm. Para. Erasm. g g Zwinglius . Zwinglius h h Marlorat com . Marlorat , i i Pareus . ib. Pareus on the same place . I think , while of late , never interpreter dreamed , that in the Text , Mat. 16. the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven are given to all believers , but only to the stewards of the house builded upon the Rock .

3. Arg. To these in this Text doth Christ give the keys , to whom he giveth warrant , for the actuall exercise of the keys , to wit , to bind and loose on Earth , and so open and shut the doores of the Kingdome . But this warrant and officiall authority of binding and loosing , Christ giveth to Peter onely as representing Apostles , Teachers and Elders , and not to the Church of believers convened Covenant-wayes , and destitute of Officers ; Ergo , the proportion is cleare in the Text ; to the same person , to whom the promiseth the power or keys , to the same he promiseth Officiall warrant to exercise the speciall acts of the keys , but to Peter is the promise of both made 19. and if Christ allude to the place , Is. 22. 22. Then ( I say ) these to whom Christ gave the keys , doe by Office represent him who hath the keys of Davids house and the Government on his shoulder , And I will give to thee the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven , there is the power and authority granted ; And whatsoever thou shall bind on Earth , shall be bound in Heaven : there is a warrant , for the exercise of the acts of the power given also to Peter ; Now if the keys be not given to Peter as to a Pastor ; Peter and pastors , by this place , as pastors , neither have the keys , nor officiall warrant to preach , and to remit , or retaine sinnes ; and if by this place , they have it not , we desire to see a warrant from Christ , before he went to heaven , for pastorall preaching a a Beza . Ministerii Ecclesiastici , authorit●● caelestis . Beza in his marginall notes in this Text , sayth , here is the Heavenly authority of the Church Ministery ; also binding and loosing is all one , with opening and shutting Heaven Gates , and with remitting and retaining sinnes , Ioh. 20. Papists , I know , deny that the Apostles were made priests judicially to remit sinnes before Christs Resurrection , Ioh , 2. so b b Tolet comment in Joan. in loc. an . 21. the Cardinall Tolet , and c c Maldonat . Harm. in loc. Maldonat d d Cajetan . com . in Ioh. 20. 23. ideo hoc in loco instituitur & promulgatur sacramentum paenitentiae . Cajetanus ; but the Truth is , what is given here Mat. 16. Is but repeated and enlarged Joh 20. And they are now sent to the whole World , whereas before they were to preach to Iudea only , but this Ioh , 20. e e Rolloc . ib●cpetita & reiterata potestas . ( sayth Rollocus ) is but a reiterated power , it was given before his Resurrection , and f f Beza in ani. mad . in Mat. 16. sicut Ioannes iuterpretatur in sra . c. 21. Beza sayth the same , and g g Bulling. Mat. 16. Bullinger sayth , the promise is made here and fulfilled Ioh. 2 c. and h h Pareus . Quicquid solveris , id est , Joh. 20. quorum peccata remiseritis . Pareus expoundeth ( what thou shalt loose ) here by these words Ioh. 20. So i i Calv. instit . 4. ca. 6. Calvin k k Whittaker . tom . 2. contr. 4. q. 2. ca. 5. Whittaker l l Zwinglius com . Zwinglius m m Asuscul . in Joh. 21. Musculus , Now this same n n Way of the Church of n. E. ca. 2. sect. 9 Author acknowledgeth that Ioh. 20. Christ gave pastorall power to all the Apostles to forgive sins .

2. To bind and to loose , are act . s of officiall power , and of Princes , Rulers , and Feeders , Ergo they are not given to the Church destitute of Feeders and Governors . I prove the antecedent . 1. To bind and loose , by all Interpreters , Augustine , Cyrill , Chrysost. C●prian , Euthymius , Hyeromi , Basilus , Ambrose , Sedulius , Primasius , and by our owne Calvin , Musculus , Gualther , Pareus , Beza , Zwinglius , Rolloc , Whittaker , and the evidence of Scripture , i● , by publick and pastorall preaching , to re●nit and retaine sins , to believers or unbelievers ; and o o Bulling. in loc. Mat. 16. Bullinger comment , Mat. Bullinger saith it is taken from the Scripture Isa. 52. 49 v. 9. where Christ is said to loose the prisoners , and so p p Muscul. ibid Musculus q q Beza an . Beza , and r r Calvin comment Calvin will have them to be words signifying the ●fficiall authority of Princes , Ambassadours , to set at liberty prisoners , or to cast malefactors in bands and prison , as Magistrates and Rulers doe , so binding in Scripture s s Psa. 105. 27 Judg. 15. 10. Psal. 149. 8. Mat. 22. 13. Acts 21. 11. Acts 22. 4. Mark . 3. 37. is an authoritative act of Princes , Superiors , Governors and Rulers . And so is lo●sing a judiciall and authoritative act of Rulers and Overseers l l Levit. 14. 7. Psal. 102. 20. Jer. 40. 4. Ps. 105. 20. Act. 2. 24. Rom. 7. 2. 1 Cor. 7. 27. Rev. 20. 3. Rev. 9. 15. Job . 12. 18. as Scripture teacheth us . But the Church of believers wanting their Officers , watchmen , and Overseers , though combined in a Church Covenant , is not a company of Overseers and Rulers , or judiciall and authoritative binders and loosers exercising power over themselves .

4. Arg. If Christ doe not say in this place , nor in Mat. 18. that the keys and the actes of the keys , to wit , binding and loosing , are given to the Church of believers , without their Officers ; then neither places prove , that the keyes are given to such a Church .

But Christ doth not say it ; Ergo , the Text cannot beare it : the assumption I prove . Christ , Mat. 16. 18. speaking of the Church builded on a Rock , sayth not , I will give to the Church so builded , the keys ; but he turneth the speech to Peter , when he promiseth the keys V. 19. And I will give to thee , ( Peter , not to the Church ) the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven , surely none needeth to teach our Lord to speak . This change of the persons to whom the keys are promised , wanteth not a reason . Our brethren say , the promise is made to Peter , because he gave a confession of Christ in the name of all believers , and because the keys are given to believers , as the Spouse of Christ , and as his body united to him : but this author , granteth every company of believers , because they are believers , are not an instituted visible Church , but they must be a company of believers professing Covenant-wayes Faith in Christ , and Church-communion . But , 1. then the keys are not given to believers because they are believers , and the Spouse of Christ , but because they are such professors , so and so combined in a Church-covenant . But yet I aske , whether true or false profession be the neerest intervening cause of these , to whom the keyes are given . If a true profession , then . 1. Unbelieving Pastors are not Pastors ; for their profession is not true . And children baptized by them are as not-baptized , or as baptized by Women , 2. If one shall be excommunicated by seven ( for such a a Cap. 3. Sect. 1. a number this Author requireth to make a visible Church ) even , clave non errante , and most deservedly , he is not bound in Heaven , and excommunicated , in foro Dei , before God : for the profession of these seven may be false , and so the Church actes performed by them , are a non habentibus potestatem , and null , if they be no Church , 3. We can prove by Scripture b b Mat. 10. 2. Joh 6. 70. Acts 17. 20. 21. that Iudas though the child of perdition , was a called Apostle . But if a false profession be sufficient to make persons a true visible Church , the● . 1. The keys are not given to believers , because they are believers , and united to Christ , as his body and Spouse , but. 2. This Author sayth amisse , That the Church instituted by Christ is a company of believers , and faithfull and godly men , whereof Peter was one ; for a company of hypocrites are not such . 2. Our brethren prove the keys , to be a part of the liberty of the redeemed ones , but counterfeit professors are not redeemed ones , nor have they that liberty purchased to them in Christ . 4 It shall follow , that our brethren widely mistake a supposed difference which they devise , betwixt the Iewish and Christian Church , to wit , that to make men members of the Iewish Church , externall holinesse , as to be borne Jewes , was sufficient , and to be circumcised , and not a bastard , not descended within three or foure Generations of a Moabite , or Ammonite , but that the visible Church of the Gentiles after Christ must be the bride of Christ , and by true Faith united to him . Whereas the members of a Christian visible Church are and may be hypocrites , though not known to be such , as were the members of the Iewish Church . Also Mat. 18 18 , 19. Christ changeth the persons , v. 17. after he hath spoken of the Church v. 17. he sheweth v. 18. of what Church he speaketh , and directeth his speech to these to whom he spake v. 1. to the Disciples who were Pastors , verily I say unto you , What soever yee shall bind on Earth , shall be hond in Heaven , and therefore none can make an argument from , Mat. 16. to wit thus , to as many are the keys promised , as are builded on the Rock , but all the faithfull are builded on the Rock , Ergo to all the faithfull are the keys promised . 1. The proposition is not in the Text either expressely , or by consequent . 2. The proposition is false , for the Catholick invisible Church is builded on the rock , but by our Brethrens confession the keys are not given to the Catholick invisible Church , but only to such a company of professing believers , as make a Parishionall Congregation . 4. That Christ speaketh to Peter as to one representing the Apostles , and not as to one representing all believers , is cleare . 1. Because by the confession of our Brethren binding and loosing are denyed to many that make Peters confession , thou art Jesus the Son of the living God , as to believing Women and children ; and many out of Church . state . 2. If believers as giving Peters confession , and as builded upon the rock , Christ , by this place made a ministeriall Church , by Christ , and gifted with the power of the keys , then the Ministery & officiall power of preaching and binding and loosing should be made as stable and firme from defection , as the Church of elect believers , against whom the gates of hell cannot prevaile : now besides that this is most untrue since , visible Churches doe fall away , as these seven Churches in Asia , the Church of Corinth , Ephesus , Galatia , Thessalonica may prove , when as it is impossible that the elect Believers in Christ can fall away , it shall also give good warrant to Papists , to make such use of this place , as they doe , that the Church may erre in points of conversation and life , but cannot fall from the rock , nor be overcome by the powers of Hell in the definition of Articles of Faith . So a a Gretser de in Augnr Doctor Luther . p. ●9 . Gretser b b Bel● . de cöcli . vut . l. 2 , ca. 2. Bellarmine c c Suarez de trip . virt●dis . 9. de Eccl. Sec. 7. n. 7. Suarez . d d Greg de Valent tom . 3. dis. 1. q. 1. punct. 7. Gregor. de Valent. e e Hosius in confess . Polmiea . Cardi. Hosius f f Joan. de Turre cremat . de Gal. l. 1. ca. 24 , 25 , 26. Turrecremata , reason from this place ; and the connexion must be good , if the Ministeriall power not only be given to the Church as to the Object , that is , for the good and salvation of the Church , but also to the Church as to the Subject , who hath all the power of the Keys , and may use it also , because they are believers and builded upon the rock Christ ; nothing hindereth , but Ministeriall power should be as stable and free from being overcome with the ports of Hell , as the Christian state of perseverance in grace . Now we see , these who have Ministeriall power , abuse it , and fall from the rock and perish eternally ; which we cannot say of these , who by Faith are builded upon the Rock Christ Iesus . 3. These to whom Christ giveth the Keys , doe represent the person of Christ , and who despiseth them despiseth Christ , and he that honoureth them , honoureth Christ , which is evidently spoken of the Ministers of Christ , Matthew 10. 40. And is said here Matthew , 16. 19. Whatsoever then yee shall bind on Earth , shall be bound in Heaven , &c. Thus Christ bindeth and looseth in Heaven , when these to whom the Keys are given , binde and loose ; and so they are to be looked unto as co-workers with God . Now Scripture never maketh all believers Ambassadours in Christs roome . Where doe we reade that the despising of all believers commanding in Christs Name , is a despising of Christ , and that in obeying them , we obey Christ ? Nor are all Ambassadors , Pastores , &c. 5. These to whom the Keys are given doe authoritatively forgive and retaine sins , and their acts of forgiveing and retaining are valid in Heaven , according as the party repenteth and believeth , or according as they remain impenitent , as our Divines teach against the Papists , in their Doctrine of Sacramentall absolution . But the Church , or company of believers wanting their Officers , by no Scripture can authoritatively forgive , and retaine si●s . Robinson , Smith and others answer , that believers out of Office may forgive , as Mat. 18. 21. Peter said , How oft shall my brother offend me , and I forgive him ? Lu. 17. 3. 4. 2 Cor. 2. 10.

But I answer , the place , 2 Cor. 2. 10. is controverted , and we doubt not , but of that same nature , with the power of Excommunicating . 1 Cor. 5. 4. But for private forgiving , it is not the Church-forgiving here meant , because 1. The private forgiving is a duty of charity commanded in the Law of Nature to all , even out of Church-state , and obligeth the Excommunicate , who , though they be cast out of the Church , are not exempted from the Law , that bindeth all , Mat. 6. 12. 14 , 15. Mat. 5. 44. 45. but the Church-forgiving is an Act of obedience to a positive Church-Law of Christ , 2. private Christians are to forgive their Enemies whether they repent , or not , even as Christ forgave those who crucified him , Col 3. 13. Luk. 23. 34. and when the party repenteth not , this forgivenesse is not ratified in Heaven , yet are we obliged to forgive , and to commit vengeance to God ; but the authoritative forgiveing is a thing that the Church , is not obliged unto , absoiutely ; nor may they , or can they forgive , except the Offender repent : and if they see that he repenteth not , they cannot lawfully forgive ; but , being in Gods roome , must take vengeance on all disobedience , and their retaining of sin and forgiveing , is valid in Heaven , because they are in Gods place . Now any forgiving or retaining of sin but these two , together with Gods forgiving and retaining , we know not . But Peters forgiving his offending brother seventy times seven times , is common to all private Christians , even out of Church-state , and so the instance given is not to the purpose , 6. To these only are the Keys given , who having Pauls pastorall spirit , may convene and deliver to Sathan , but the Church of believers without Officers , not having Pauls pastorall spirit which is a spirit officiall , and authoritative to preach , excommunicate , and administrate the seales of the Covenant , may not convene and doe this ; Ergo , &c. indeed a a Fran. Iohnson art . 5. in M. Clisions booke . p. 29. Francis Johnson sayth it is holden now by some of the Separation , that people out of Office may execute all the workes and duties of the ministery , in Baptisme , the Lords Supper , censures , &c. which I thinke followeth from the grounds of our brethren , to wit , that believers without Office are a compleat Church , having the whole power of the Keys : if administration of the Sacraments be not a speciall part of the Keys , and the opening of Heaven and forgiving of sins , we know not what belongeth to the power of binding and loosing ; yea this is not only contrary to Scripture b b Mat. 18. 19. 1 Cor. 11. 23. 1 Cor. 1. 17. Joh. 4. 12. but also to their c c Consess . art . 27. own confession , and d d Remonst. conf. . 21. & apol. cons. ib. is the Doctrine of Arminians e e Socin . tract . de Eccl c. 1. n. 140. Gatechis . Raccoviens . c. 11. n. 305. and Socinians f f Cartwright ans . to the adm●nit . tract . 18. c. 1● div. 5. p 663. Cartwright sayth the Sanedrin , Mat. 18. to these who have skill in the Rabbines , especially in the Iewes Talm●d , was a selected Judicatory , and that to this Christ alludeth Mat. 18. g g Beza an . in Mat. 17. learned Beza , sayth much from Scripture for this , that the Church here signifieth not the multitude , h h Pareus , Apostolis dict manisestum est , quicquid vos Apostoli ligaveritis , ut supra Petro dixerat Christus , Mat. 16. 19. Parcus also is most cleare on this place i i Calvin com . ib. Calvin hath reason to say , he alludeth to Iewish Synedrie , k k Joh. Weemes vol. 3. expos. of the judiciall Law . c. 16. see also Weems . I● it needlesse to cite Iunius , Zanchius , Peter Martyr , Willet , Whittaker , Tilen , Becan , and all our Divines of the reformed Churches ; for when he hath spoken of the Church representative , Mat. 18. 16 , 17. and speaketh to these , to whom the Sermon was made , v. 1. at the same time came the Disciples to Jesus ( they were then Apostles in Office and called to preach and Baptize , though not yet sent to the whole world ) saying who is the greatest in the Kingdom of God ? Now to these Christ sayth , 18. to the Apostles , Verily I say to you , whatsoever you shall bind on Earth ; and this place is to be expounded by Mat. 16. 19. Where the Keys are given in a more restricted manner to Peter only , though as representing the whole Apostles and Church-rulers , and we have better reason to expound this place , Mat. 18. by the place foregoing , Mat. 16. then they have to expound the place , Mat. 16. by this place , Mat. 18. because these ●am● Keys that binde and loose in the one place , remit and retaine finnes , in the other ; and we find the keys given to Officers and Stewards only . And here is no Church , Mat. 18. or yet Mat. 16. without Pastors , except they say , that Christ Mat. 18. 18. speaketh not to the Disciples , but to the multitude of the Jewes , which is a great crossing of the Text. And to say , that Christ speaketh to the Apostles , not as to Apostles , but as to the Church of believers , is only a bare affertion , and cannot be proved , and all they can say , hangeth upon this one place , and this is the most . The power of binding and loosing is given to the Church , which is to be obeyed and heard in the place of God . But this Church , is never in the Word of God ( say they ) taken for a company of Officers , Pastors , and Elders only ; it signifieth alwayes the Body of Christ , his Spouse , his Saints by calling , partakers of the most holy Faith . To which I answer , The body , Spouse of Christ , and Saints by calling , as they are such , is the invisible Church , and the keys and Seales a a Way of the Church of n. E. c. 4. sec. 5. sayth this Author ) are not to be dispensed to all the faithfull as such , but as they arè confederate or joyned together in some particular visible Church , that is , sayth he ) as they are members of a visible Church ; Ergo , &c. the body and Spouse of Christ , as such , is not the Church here meant of , but the visible Congregation . Now the essence of a visible Church of which Christ speaketh here , is saved in ten , who are only visible professors , and not a Church of sound Believers , not the true body mysticall and Spouse of Christ : and yet , by this place , the Keys are given to such a Church ; now wee desire againe , a place , in all Gods Word , for a Church in this sense , and a Body of Christ and his Spouse in this meaning : for certainly , professors this way confederate , as professiors , are no more a Church of Christ , redeemed ones , and his Spouse , then an Assembly of Elders onely can be called such a Church of Believers ; for both Churches are , and may be ; where no believers are at all , at least for a time , and even while they exercise this power of Binding and Loosing , and so th● place , Matthew 18. is as much against our brethren , as against us .

And Lastly our Doctrine is acknowledged , by all our Divines , against the Papists , proving that Mat. 16. the Keyes were given to Peter as representing the Apostles , and his successors in the pastorall charge , not as representing all believers . Irenaus i● qui in Ecclesia sunt , Presbyteris obed● oportet , iis qui successionem habent ab Apostolis : qui cum Episcopatus successione , charisma veritatis certum , secundum beneplacitumpatris , acceperunt . Nazianzen . o● at . 21. de laud. Bas. ejusdem throni particeps est Petrus , cum reliquis Apostolis , in illa verba , dabo tibi Claves Cyprian de unita Ecclesia , Christus eandem dedit omnibus Apostolis potestatem , & hoc erant utique & caeteri Apostoli , quod , Pe●●us suit , pari consortto praediti & honoris & potestatis , he should have said , Hoc erant utique & caeteri credentes in Christum , quod Petrus suit ; also Basil de vita solitar. c. 21. Omnibus pastoribus & Doctoribvs candem potestatem tribuit , cu●us signum est , quod omnes , exaequo & ligant & solvunt . He should have said , Omnibus credentibus in Christum eandem potestatem tribuit . Ambros. in Ps. 38. & in Luc. 10. Ser. 66. Quod hic dictum est , Apostolis omnibus dictum ; non ait , omnibus credentibus dictum . The p●ilact . in Mat. 6. Quamvis soli Petro dictum , tamen omnibus Apostolis concessae sunt ( Claves . ) Cyrill● in Joh. 4. l. 4. Responsionem illi Christus committebat , qui ordine primus , omnibus Apostolis : non ait , omnibus credentibus . Euthymius in Mat. ca. tibi dabo claves , atqui donum hoc ceterorum fuit Apostolorum . Hugo de sanct. victor Tom. 2. institut sanct. monaster . Quamvis potestas solvendi & ligandi soli Petro data videatur , tamen caeteris Apostolis data est , Haymo . Homil in festo Petri & Pauli . Quod Petro dixit , in Petro , caeteris Apostolis dixit . Cardin Cusan . concord . Cathol. 2. c. 13. Nih l dictum a●●ctrum , quod alits Apostolis n●n di●tum . Glossa ordinaria , Pet●us tanquam principa is inter alios ( Apostolos ) non inter alios creientes , pro aliis dat respensionem . Cyrill in Es. 4. orat 2. sancti Apostoli & Evangelist●e fundamenta . Hyeron li. 1 cont. Iovian , Omnes Apostoli acceperunt claves , non solus Petrus . Anselm in Mat. 16. Habent eandem judiciariam potestatem al●i Apostoli . Anastasius in quest. sac . script q. 79. in 6. Tom Biblioth. Potestatem clavium non soli Petro , sed aliis etiam Apostolis , & toti Ecclesie in Episcopis & Presbyteris datam . August . tract . in Joh 50. & lib. de ag●d . Christi c. 30. Beda , homil. in Mat. 16. Chry●ostom Homil. 70. ad popul. Hilarius ae trinit l. 6. Euscbius histor. Eccl. lib 2. c. 14. Leo Serm. 10. de assumpt. & citat Bellar. de Pont. lib. 1. c. 14. Petro hoc singulariter creditur , quia cunct is rectoribus Petri formâ proponitur , Lyra in Mat. 16. durand 4 dis: 18. q 2. Pro omnibus Apostolis dictum . Thom. 4. d. 24. q. 3. Scot. 4. d. 24. q. 3. Adrian 6. in . 4. d. q. 2. Synod Coloniens . sub . Adulph c. 1. med. 6. Hugo Cardinal . in Matthew 16. concilum aqu●sgranens . cap. 9.

Also the Fathers Irenaeus , Nazianz●nus , Cyprianus , Basilius , Ambrosius , Theophilactus , Cyrillus , Euthymius , Hyeronimus , Augustine , Beda , Chrysostomus . And ordinaria glossa , Hugo de sanct. Victor . Haymo . Cardinalis Cusanus . Anastasius , Leo , Durandus , Thomas , Adrianus , Scotus , making a comparison between Peter and the rest of the Apostles , say , the keys were given to all the Apostles , when they were given to Peter : and Peter received them in the name and person of the rest of the Apostles , wherby , they declare , it was never their mind that Peter received the keys in name of all believers .

Also the learned , as a a Augustine de trinit. lib. 2. cap. 6 & in Psalm . 60. Augustine b b Beda in Joh. 21. Beda c c Gregor. li. 3. c. 33. Gregorius , expound the Church builded upon the rock to be the Catholick Church , and not a particular visible Church . And d d Gerard. loc. com●tom . 5. de Eccl. c. 6. n. 50. Gerardus giveth a good reason , why this Church , Mat. 16. cannot be a particular visible Church , because the gates of hell prevaileth against many joyned to the visible Church in externall society , e e Wiclefus tract . cont. monach. c. 39. and Wicklif writing against the Monkes resureth that error of the Papists , that any members of the true Church can be damned ; and f f Whittaker cont . 4. q. 2. c. 3. Whittaker sayth , Augustin g g August . cont. Petilian . l. 2. c. ult . against Petilian sayth , the Church builded on the rock is the Church of the Elect , not the visible Church .

CHAP. 2. SECT. 2. PROP.

THis Church ( saith the Author ) doth meete together every Lords Day , all of them , even the whole Church , for administration of the Ordinances of God , to publick edification .

Ans. Two things are here said , 1. That all , even the whole Church , must meete for administration of the Ordinances of God , that so all and every one of the Church may be actors and Judges in dispensing of censures , this we take to be popular governement . 2. That there is a necessity of personall presence of all and every one of the Church ▪ Hence

Quest. 3. Whether or no the multitude of Believers , and the whole people are to be judges , so , as private Christians out of Office are to exercise judiciall acts of the keys ?

For the more easie clearing of the Question , let it be observed .

1. Dist. There is a dominion of Government Lordly and Kingly , and this is in Christ only in relation to his Church and in civill judges , and is no wayes in Church - guides , who are not Lords over the Lords inheritance ; there is a government Ministeriall , of service , under Christ , and this is due to Church-guides .

2. Dist. Regall power , being a civill power founded in the Law of nature ( for the Ants have a King ) may well be in the people originally and subjectively , as in the fountaine , nature teaching every communitie to govern themselves , and to hold off injuries , if not by themselves , yet by a King , or some selected Rulers ; but power of Church-government being supernaturall , and the acts of Church-government , and of the casting such as offend out of Christs Kingdome , being supernaturall , neither of them can be originally in the multitude of professing beleevers , but must be communicated by Christ to some certaine professing beleevers , and these are Officers . Therefore to put power and acts of government in all professors , is a naturall way drawne from civill incorporations . Christ is not ruled by our Lawes .

3. Dist. The government of Christs Kingdome is the most free and willing government on earth ; yet it is a government properly so called , for there be in it authoritative commandements , and Ecclefiasticke coaction , upon the danger of soule penalties ; in regard of the former , all the people by consent and voluntary agreement have hand in election of Officers , inflicting of censures , because it concerneth them all : but in regard of the latter , the whole people are not over the whole people ; they are not all Kings reigning in Christs government over Kings , but are divided into governours and governed ; and therefore the rulers Ecclesiasticke onely , by power of office , are in Christs roome , over the Church , to command , sentence , judge , and judicially to censure .

4. Distinct. The Officiall power of governing superaddeth to the simple acts of popular consenting , the officiall authoritative and coactive power of Christs Sceptor in discipline .

That distinction in the sense holden by our brethren a a Presbytetiall government examined , p. 23. that the state of the Church is popular , and the government Aristocraticall in the hands of the Eldership , is no wayes to he holden ; nor doe the Parisian b b Doct. Parisiens . de polit. Eccles. pag. 10 , 11. Doctors , the authors of this distinction , mind any Church-government to be in the people .

Our brethren in the answer to the questions sent to them from England , explaine their minde thus : 1. We acknowledge a Presbytery , whose worke it is to teach and rule , and whom the people ought Quest 15. to obey , and we condemne a meere popular government , such as our writers condemne in Morellius . They adde ▪

Government meerly Aristocraticall , where all authority is in the hands of the Eldership , excluding the people from intermedling by way of power , we conceive to be without warrant and injurious to the people , infringing their liberties in chusing Officers , admitting members , censuring offenders , even Ministers , Col. 4. 16.

To which doctrine we oppose these conclusions :

1. Concl. Our brethren hold a meere popular government , with Morellius . 1. Because nothing is left peculiar in government to the Officers which all the people have not . 2. Because a greater power of Church-Jurisdiction , as I shall prove , is given to the people then to the guides ; for , cursing by Excommunication of all the Officers , and blessing of them by pardoning their faults , and admitting of Members and laying on of hands , is the greatest power that can be given to people . But this and many other acts of jurisdiction the people have by our brethrens Doctrine . 3. The people is no more obedient to the Eldership , in teaching , then Indians and Infidels , who are hearers of the word , and are under an obligation to obey the word ; and under the very same obligation of an Evangelicke offer made to all : The people ( say they ) are under the obligation of obedience to Pastorall teaching , under the paine of Church censures , but so are not Indians , who may be onely hearers , but are in no Church-membership . I answer , Obligation to Church censures from the Pastors , as Pastors , lyeth not on the people , by our brethrens doctrine . 1. Because Pastors , as Pastors , are not the Church builded on the rocke , nor the Spouse of Christ , nor any part thereof ; nor any part of the visible Church , to the which Christ hath given the Keys : for the visible Church is a compleate Church in esse , & in operari , in their being and Church actions of a visible Church without all Pastors of any Officers , as they teach . 2. Because Pastors are onely parts of the visible Church , as believers , and so have the power of the Keyes as believers ; and this the believers have , which the Pastors have not ; and so seeing the Pastors as Pastors have not the Keyes , nor can they use the Keyes , or excommunicate as parts or members of the visible Church ; because , as Pastors , they are neither parts nor members of the Church , but adjuncts , and meere accidents of the visible Church , and therefore the people are under no obligation of obedience to Pastors , as Pastors under paine of Ecclesiasticke censures , more then Indians or Infidels , who are their hearers .

2. Concl. Christ hath given no warrant at all of actuall Church government , to all the whole visible Church . 1. so the places that I cited before a a Pauls Presbytery , c. 6. 63. 64. Iadde the styles of Officiall dignity given to Officers , because of their government , are given onely to Officers , and never to the people ; Ergo , the people have no power of government ; the consequence is sure , those who are priviledged of Christ to governe , ordinarily should be , and duely are Governours . But the stile of Gods is given to Church-guides , Ioh. 10. 33 , 36. Ioh. 20. 21. which title for governing is given to Judges , Psalm . 82. 6. Exod. 21. 6. And his Master shall bring him 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to the Judges . Now the people are not Gods , nor are they 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Heb. 13. 17. over the people in the Lord . Which word , no doubt , the Apostle borrowed from the Septuagint , so stiling the Rulers , not because of their place of preaching onely , but of governing also , as Jos. 13. 21. Micah 3. 9. Ezech. 44. 3. Dan. 3. 2. Acts 23. 24. Matth. 27. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and it is given to the Kings or supreame rulers , 1 Pet. 2. 14. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , so it is frivolous , that they say Church-Officers are never called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : For these words of officiall power of government are no lesse powerfull , and never communicated to any but to Church-Officers , such as are 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , watchmen , not onely for preaching , but also for government , Phil. 1. 1. 1 Tim. 3. 2. Acts 20. 28. and the people are not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Governours , 1 Cor. 12. 28. nor are they 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Rom. 12. 8. nor obliged to bee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Rulers , as they are the visible Church , nor should they bee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , 1 Tim. 5. 17. nor are they to bee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Labourers , and over the Saints in the Lord . 1 Thess. 5. 12.

2. If all the people as contradistinguished from Officers , are to watch over one another , and by office to rebuke , censure , excommunicate , ordaine , and exauthorate Officers , then must they in Conscience attend the judging of all causes , of adultery , fornication , drunkennesse , swearing , oppressing , defrauding one another , as they fall under scandall . Now this is a calling distinct from their owne calling , in respect the holy Ghost alloweth to the Elders stipend and maintenance , 1 Tim. 5. 17. yea , and hire as to labourers , Matth. 10. 10. as to souldiers , husbandmen , dress●rs of vineyards , feeders of flocks , 1 Cor. 9. 7 , 8. yea , as to the oxe that treadeth out , or thresheth the corne , vers . 9. and by this all the people are made officers and stipendiaries , to whom by the Law of God and nature stipend is due : Now this looscth them from their own proper callings of Merchandise , Trading , Husbandry , Laws , Medicine , Manufactures , and maketh all these callings sinfull & unlawfull to the Saints by calling , who are members of a visible Church , according to that 2 Tim. 2. 4. No man that warreth , in t angleth himselfe with the affairs ( or callings ) of this life , which is grosse Anabaptisme condemned by Gods Word , 1 Cor. 7. 20 , 21. Eph. 6. 5. Col. 2. 22. 1 Thess. 4. 11. Now certainly , if actuall government , with the power of the Keyes , be committed to all the members of the visible Church , the Epistles to Timothy and Titus , and Canons of right government must be written to Timothy and Titus , not as to Pastors , but as to beleevers , as the Keyes were given in Peters person , and a warrant to binde and loose , Matth 18. Matth. 16. as representing beleevers , not as to a Pastor : then they are to commit the word to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , and to give up their earthly callings , as 2 Tim. 2. 2 3 , 4. and to lay hands suddenly on no man , and not to receive a testimony against an Elder , but before two or three witnesses , 1 Tim. 5. 22 , 19. and to war a good warfare , 1 Tim. 1. 18. And this must needs follow , since Separatists teach , That all the people are obliged in Conscience to judge , and to be personally present , and that by their Office and Church-calling , when ever any sentence is given out against offenders ; for , if the Elders be onely present and the people absent , the Elders shall tyrannize * * Answ. in his Animadvers . pag. 42 , 43. ( saith Answorth ) over the peoples Consciences ; for the people being absent shall not know if the Eldership have proceeded right , yet must they repute the excommunicated person as an heathen or a publicane .

3. Arg. That government is not to be admitted which maketh men take honour to themselves , without God calling them thereunto . But the Doctrine of government in the hands of people is such , ergo ; the assumption is proved : 1. By it , all are Kings , Rulers , and Guides , and all have the most supreame power of the Keyes , as authoritative receiving in of members , and judiciall casting out , by the pastorall spirit of Paul , and all governe over all . 2. Beleevers are a ministeriall Church , a company of private Christians put in office , and doing acts of a Ministeries now a Ministerie is a peculiar state of eminency that God calle●h some selected & gifted persons unto that to the which he calle●h not all professors , as in Israel he chosed , one Tr be a a H●b . 8. 2. Ez●k . 7. 24. Ezr. 8. 17. Jer. 33. 21. Ezek. 44. 11. Jod . 1. 9. Ez●k . 45. 5. Ex. 28. 1. 3. 35. Ex. 29 1. Ex. 14. 15. Levit. 16. 32 Num. 1. 50. Deur . 10. 5. Deut 18. 6. 7. 1 Chron. 16. 37. 2 Chron. 5. 14. 2 Chron. 13. 10. to minister to himselfe , not all the visible Church of Israel , as the Scripture teacheth us . Ministers of the house of God , the Levites , the Lords Ministers , Ministers of Gods Sanctuary , and the ministery of the b b Eph. 3. 7. Col. 1. 25. Col. 4. 7. 1 Thest. 3. 2. 1 Tim. 4. 6. Acts 26. 16. New Testament , is a speciall emi●ency of office given to some few , and not to all believers , c c Eph. 4. 12. Colos. 4. 17. 1 Tim. 1. 12. Act. 1. 17. 25. a matter of worke that some , not all believers are put upon , and employed in , d d 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 4. 1. 2 3. 2 Cor. 5. 18 , 19 , 20. 2 Cor. 3. 3 , 4 , 5. Gal. 6. 6. the act , of the Ministery not common to all , but restricted to the Ministers of the Church , and not common to the whole visible Church . Now to ordaine Elders , excommunicate , admit members into the Church , are positive actes of a received ministery , and must flow from an other principle , then that which is common to all professing believers .

4. Arg. All who have received such a Ministeriall state to discharge such excellent and noble actes , as laying on of hands , receiving of witnesses , committing the Gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , and must save some by gentle awaiting , and stop the mouthes of other Pastors , as a a 1 Tim. 5. 22. 19. 2 Tim. 2. 2. 2 Tim. 3. 15. Tit. 1. 11. the Scripture saith , these must acquit themselves as approved worke-men to God , and shall therefore receive a Crowne of Glory at the appearance of the chiefe Shepheard , and must in a speciall manner fight the good fight of Faith , and must be worke-men who neede not to be ashamed . But these are not required of all the Church visible ; all are not men of God , and ministeriall Souldiers of Christ , and feeders of the flock , but only such as Timothy , Titus , and Elders like to Peter , as these b b 2 Tim. 2. 15 1 Pet. 5. 1 , 2. 5. 1 Tim. 6. 12 1 Tim. 6. 11. 1 Tim. 6. 13 , 14. Scriptures prove . For the reward of a prophet is not due to all .

5. Arg. That Government is not of God which taketh away the ordinary degrees of members in Christs body the Church . But government exercised by all the visible body taketh away the deversity of offices , members , places , of Rulers and ruled , Ergo ; I prove the assumption . 1. All have one and alike equall power of governing , all the members are one in place , and office , all are Eyes , all Eares , all are hands , according as all have one joynt and common interest , and claime to Christ . One is not an Eye and head in relation to another : for all are both governours and governed , all the Watchmen , and all the City ; all the flock , and all the feeders , all the House , and all Rulers , Key-bearers , Stewards , all the children of the house , all the Fathers , Tutors , to bring up , nu●ture , and correct the children . 2. If the power and use of the Keys result from this , that the Corporation is the Spouse , Body , Sister of Christ , the redeemed flock , what should hinder but according as God inequally dispenseth the measure of grace , to some more , to some l●sse , so some should have more , some lesse power of the keys , and some exercise more eminent acts of government , as they be more eminent in grace ; some lesse eminent acts ; and if we grant this , we cannot deny the order of a Hierarchy amongst Pastors . This connexion may be denied happily by our brethren , but there is no reason , if their arguments be good , they alwayes conclude Church-power from the graces of the members of the Church .

3. Concl. It is cleare then that the state of the Church cannot be called popular , and the government Aristocraticall , or in the hands of the Elders , as our brethren meane . 1. Because by our brethren , the government and the most eminent and authoritative acts thereof are in the hands of the people . Ergo , both state and government are popular . 2. Because the people are not only to consent to the censures , and acts of government , but also authoritatively to judge with coequal power with the Eldership , as they prove from , 1 Cor. 5. 12. 3. a a Pag. 10. The Parisian Doctors , the authors of this distinction acknowledge a visible monarchy in the Church , and are far from popular government .

Let us heare what our brethren say for the government of the people , and their judiciall power in generall .

Quest. 15. Our brethren say , the Colossians are exhorted , Col. 4. 17. to say to Archippus , Take heed to the Ministery , that thou hast received of the Lord , to fulfill it in all points ; Ergo , the people are to censure and rebuke the Pastors , and therfore they may , and ought to exercise acts authoritative .

Ans. 1. This is an argument off the way with reverence . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 say to Archippus , take heede , Ergo , say Judicially and rebuke with all authority , it is an argument à genere ad speciem affirmativè , and a non-consequence , Mat. 18. 17. If he will not heare them , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 tell the Church ; Ergo , exercise an act of authority over the Church , Ioh. 8. 48. The Jewes said unto him . Ergo , they said it authoritatively , 1 Ioh. 1. 8. If we say , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , we have no sinne ; by no authority can we say we have no sinne , Luk. 12. 11. Take not thought 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 what ye shall say Rev. 22. 17. 2. The Fathers , as a a August . de civ . Det. l. 1. c. 9. Augustine , b b Chrysost. Homil. in Exod. 23. Chrysostome , c c Ambros. in Luc. 17. Ambrose , d d Hiieronimus in Luc. 18. Hyeronimus ; The Schoolemen , as e e Aquinas , 22. q. 23. art. 2. Aquinas , f f Bannes , in 1 33. art. 2. D. Bannes , g g Suarez , tom . de fid. spe & charit . d●s . 8. de con . Suarez , say , correcting of our brother is , ( sublevatio miseriae peccantis . ) a succouring of the misery of a sinner . h h Cajetan . in 22. q. 33. ar. 1. Cajetan●ait , actum correctionis elici à prudentia , imperari à misericordia : To warne or rebuke our brother is an act of prudence commanded by mercy and compassion . i i And. Duvallius in 22. tom . poster . tract . de charit . q. 9. art. 2. And. Duvalius saith , it is an act , Non solum juris divini , sed etiam naturalis ; and he citeth Lev. 19. Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thy heart , but shalt rebuke him ; and shall beare one anothers burdens , and so fulfill the Law of Christ . And k k Gregor. de valent . tom. 3. dis. 3. de correc . fra. quest. 10. punct. 2. Greg. de Valent. saith it is a spirituall almes , & actum misericordiae , quo subveniatur spirituali necessitati fratris . So the Doctors l l Doct. juris Canonici in decret . 2. q. 1. caus . peccaverit haec . of the Canon Law . So the Fathers say , m m Basil in Ps. 14. as Basilius , esse benevolentiam potius , quam severitatem . n n August . de verbo domin. serm. 16. Augustin . Vulnus fratr is contemnis , vides cum perire & negligis , pejor es tu tacendo , quam ille te offendendo . o o Hieronim . in Ps. 140. in illud corripiet me j●stus . Excellently Hieronim . Sivide at in corpore carnes putridas , & dicat . An ad me pertinet ? scias , quiae crudelis est . And p p Nazianzen in or at . de moderatione , in disputat . Nazianz. Charitatem potius hic quam potestatem ostendendam . To rebuke is a worke of charity , rather then of power . q q Calvin in Epist. ad col . c. 4. Calvin saith , Good Ministers stand in need to be admonished . r r Davenantius com . ib. Davenant thinketh that Archippus in the absence of Epaphras his collegue was to supply his absence , and , it is like , was somewhat cold , and therefore needed to be admonished . But because the Collossians were to exercise an act of mercy towards their Pastor , which the Law of nature enjoyned them , it is a wide inference , therefore they had Church authority and power over him , to censure , deprive excommunicate him ; so the faithfull receiveth a charge , Hos. 2. 1. Say ye to your brethren Ammi , and to your sisters Ruhammah . 2. Plead with your mother , plead ; pleading for wheredomes is more then a simple exhorting of Archippus , yet none can well collect from these words , that those faithfull who kept themselves cleane from the common defection , had power of jurisdiction over their breth en , sisters , and mother , to censure them judicially , and by authority to un-Church them . And certainely the Apostle , if he had commanded here the judiciall act of Church-jurisaiction to all the Saints of Colosle , men and women who may admonish Archippus , we we would looke he had said , ( command , and charge with all authority Archippus to take heed to his ministery . ) Also , it is much to be doubted , if the duties of rebuking , exhorting , and comforting one another , be positive acts of Church-membership , which the fellow-members of a visible Congregation owe one to another by vertue of a Church-covenant , or that the people owe to the Pastor in a Church way , for these ( ex hort , teach , comfort one another ) are duties mutuall , not restricted to fellow-members of a visible Church , or Parish , but such as we owe to all the members of the Catholique Church , as we are occasionally in company with them . Yea , and duties ( as our brethren say ) that sister Churches owe to sister Churches , and acts of the Law of nature that we owe to all , as brethren , not as brethren in Church-membership , Levit. 19. 17. onely .

I will here answer : What Robinson saith , a a Robinson justif . separation p 124 , 125. 126 167. By the Keyes is meant the Gospell opening a way by Christ and his merits , as the doore into the Kingdome , the power of binding and loosing , opening and shutting Heaven , is not tied to any Office or Order in the Church , it dependeth onely upon Christ , who alone properly forgiveth sinnes , and hath the Key of David , and this Key externally is the Gospell , which , with himselfe , he giveth to the Church , Isa. 6. 9. Rom. 3. 2. Ergo , the Keyes are given to all , though not to be used by all and every one alike , which were grosse confusior . The Keyes were not given to Peter as Prince of the Apostles , as Papists say , nor to Peter as chiefe Officer of the Church , and so to Prelates ; nor to Peter as a Minister of the Word and Sacraments ; but we say , to the conf●ssion of faith , which Peter made by way of answer to Christs demand , and therefore to every faithfull man and woman , who have received the like precious faith with Peter , 2 Pet. 1. 1.

Ans. 1. If the Keyes be given to as many as the Gospell is given unto , all have the Keyes who are beleevers , children , women , whether within or without the Church ; for all have obtained alike precious faith . So it is vaine to speake there of a Church builded on the Rock● , or of any ministeriall Churc● . 2. The Keyes are not given to the naked Office or Order , distinct from the spirits working and proving the acts of preaching and discipline to be mighty through God , 2 Cor. 10 5. to open hearts , Act. 16. 14. for what , or who is Paul ? and who is Apollo , but Ministers by whom ye beleeved ? 1 Cor. 3. 4 5. and Christ alone worketh with the Sacraments , and without him great Iohn Baptist can but baptize with water . Joh. 1. 26. yet all say administration of Sacraments externally is so tied to the Office , as none can administer them without warrant , but Pastors , 1 John 5. 25 Math. 26 19. 1 Cor. 1. 17. and therefore this is weake , to prove that because Christ onely hath the Keyes of the Word ; yea , and of the Sacraments also . that therefore he hath not committed the Keyes to certaine Officers under him , who are Stewards , and Key-bearers . 3. The places alledged prove not Is. 6. 9. Christ is given to us , that is , to the Church , as to the subject ; O say it not , but to us the Church , as the object and end for our salvation . Ergo , the Keyes and the Gospell are given to the Church , yea and to every faithfull , that they may , by preaching , open and shut Heaven . You cannot say so . Also Rom. 3. 2. to the Jewes were committed the Oracles and Scriptures , that every one might be a Priest and Prophet , to teach and sacrifice ; it is a shame to say so : but to the Jewes , as to the object and end , that by the Scriptures and faith in these Oracles , they might be saved . 4. The Keyes , that is , the Gospell , is given to all , though not to be used alike by all and every one ; which were grosse confusion : that is the same we say , the Gospell in use is not given alike to all ; but to the believers as to the object and end ; to the Officers , as to the subject and proper instrument . And so you fall into grosse confusion while you eschew it .

Robinson , a a Robinson justif . p. 127. The Keyes be one and the same in efficacy and nature , and depend not upon the number and excellencie of any persons , but upon Christ alone , though the order and manner of using them be different .

Ans. The Sacraments remaine one and the same in nature and efficacy , who ever be the persons , many or few , excellent or not excellent , in whose hands soever they be ; it followeth not therefore , the power of administration of Sacraments is given to all . 2. We see no difference in the order and manner of using the keyes ; if all , even a faithfull man or woman either , may also truly and effectually loose and binde both in heaven and in earth , as all the Ministers of the world , for those be b b Rob. lb. pag. 127. your words .

Robinson . c c lb. These keyes in doctrine may be turned also as well upon them , which are without the Church , as upon them which are within , and their sinnes either loosed or bound , Matth. 28 19. in discipline not so , but onely on them that are within . 1 Cor. 5 13.

Answ. If this distinction were in Gods Word , we would receive it , but seeing by preaching there is receiving in and casting out , and binding and loosing . I aske , how these , who were never within , can bee judged and cast out by preaching more then by discipline ; may Pastors judge these who are without by preaching , and not judge those who are without by discipline , and that in a setled Church ?

Robinson . a a Rob. Ib. 127 , 128. There is an use of the keyes publike , ministeriall , by men in office , by the whole Church joyntly together , or private , by one person severally who is out of office , and yet the power of the Gospell is still one and the same , notwithstanding the divers manner of using it .

Answ. 1. If one alone have the keyes spoken of , Matth. 16. there be keyes Ministeriall made by Christ before the house be builded , and have walls , roofe , or doore , the keyes all take to be metaphoricall , and to presuppose a company , a constituted Church , where some are put in , some put out ; these private keyes of women to open and shut heaven upon men , and so to usurpe authoritie over the man , are no Church-keyes , and if they be not Church-keyes they are not for our dispute .

Robinson b b Ib. 128. If the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven be appropriated to the officers , then can there be no forgivenesse of sinnes without the officers , and there is no entrance into heaven but by the doore , there is no climbing over any other way , and without the key the doore cannot be opened : Then if there be no officers in the Church , or if they take away the key of knowledge c c Mat. 23. 13. then must the multitude perish eternally .

Answ. Though the keyes be appropriated to officers , it followeth not , There is no forgivenesse of sinnes , nor opening of Heaven at all without officers ; but onely no Ecclesiasticall forgivenesse , no Church-opening by a Ministeriall power , but through Ministeriall keyes ; and opening cannot ordinarily be without officer● . Faith commeth by hearing , Ergo , no faith by reading . Baptisme saveth , Ergo , no salvation without Baptisme , so doe Anabaptists reason , as saith d d Gerard. loc. com . tom. 6. de minist. Eccles. n. 64. pag. 71. Gerardus ; so reasoneth a a Socinus tract de Eccles. pag. 14. Socinus , averring , It is a worke of charity necessary to salvation , therefore all may preach ; and the same doth both the Raccovian● b b Catechis . ● Raccov . 2. pag. 1 44. Catechisme and c c Ostorod . in insist . German . cap. 42. p. 437. Ostorodius say , yea , and Theoph. Nicolaides d d Theoph. Nicolaides defens . Soc. de Eccles. cap. 1. pag. 146. defending Muncerus the Anabaptist . Though keyes bee a publike ordinary meane in a constituted Church , it followeth not therefore , there is no other way of opening Heaven . In the Sacraments remission of sinnes is sealed , and heaven opened , it follows not therefore , all may administer the Sacraments . 2. What inference is here ? if the keyes bee appropriated to officers , then people must perish when officers faile ; certainly so saith the Lords Spirit : Proved . e e Prov. 29. 18. Where there is no vision , the people perish ; and this is a fearfull soul judgement , when God removeth the f f Rev. 2. 5. candlestick ▪ g g Psal 74. 9. and there is no prophet to shew how long ; h h Amos 8. 11 , 12. and the people are plagued with a famine of the word of God ; yet there be other meanes then publike ministery .

He addeth : i i Rob. justif . of separation , pag. 128 , 129. They which may forgive sinne and sinners , save soules , gaine and turne men to the Lord , to them are the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven given , by which they open the doore to such as they thus forgive , gaine , and save . But all th●se , such as are no Ministers may doe , as Matth. 18. 15. 2 Corinth . 2. 5 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. Acts 8. 14.

Answ. The proposition is false , for all who open the doore by exhorting and gaining soules , as Christians in no Church-state may in some cases doe , have not the Church-keyes ; for this were to make Church keyes without any Church , and to make keyes without house , doore , or lock : for the keyes are metaphorically so called , with necessary relation to the Church , the house of God , and to the stewards of the house ; the places alleadged are the controversie it selfe , and to others of them I shall answer hereafter .

Robinson . k k Rob. 129. The twelve Apostles were not called to the office of Apostles , Matth. 16. Ergo , they doe not as Apostles receive the keyes .

Answ. I trust to prove the contrary hereafter . 2. If the Apostles , Matth. 16. received not the keyes , by no warrant are the keyes given to Pastors at all .

Robinson . l l Robins . 129 , 130. Every servant in the house , no lesse then Officers have authority ; for the word carrieth authority with it whither soever it goeth , Matth. 25. 14. and all have received some good thing or gift for the good of the Church , and all should watch , but especially the porter .

Answ. What can be hence collected ? Ergo , the keyes are given to all , and all are porters , and all should watch as porters ; for , the word of exhorting given to all , is of like authority when a woman or boy speaketh it , as when a Prophet speaketh it . But it is not good to helpe Arminius and Jesuits , who reason for universall grace given to all and every one from these Parables : Mr. Pemble , and opposers of Jesuits , in the doctrine of grace , expound this of Pastors . 2. But let the Parable speake of all ; all have authority , because all have the word , all who privately exhort have the word , have authority objective , and of divine obligation , as Christians , it is true ; Ergo , all have the keyes , it followeth not : but all who privately and occasionally exhort , have not authority officiall by the calling of God and his Church , and therefore they have not this , they have not the keyes ; and the word by publike preaching none have , but usurpers , ( save onely called Officers ) and because they steale the Word , they steale the Keyes also ; and because the Sacraments have authority from God , it followeth not therefore that Baptisme administrated by women is of authority .

Robinson m m Rob. 129 , 130. acknowledgeth , that Elders and Bishops were ordained to suppresse false doctrine , and lay hands suddenly on no man ; but it followeth not ( saith he ) that they are to doe this there alone .

Answ. There alone they must lay on hands , that is , with the Presbytery , and in a judiciall way excluding all the people ; for people never in the new Testament laid on hands upon any , to ordaine them Elders , nor did they it in the old Testament .

Robinson . n n Rob. 133 , 134. The officers , Ephes 4. 11. are chosen of Christ to watch ; so Mark 13. the porter should watch ; Ergo , the rest of the servants should not watch , it followeth not , Officers are to knit together the Saints , and so are all who are spirituall , Gal. 6. 1. The Officers are to edifie , so are all to edifie one another , 1 Thess. 5. 11.

Answ. The argument must be thus , These who are to watch , to knit together the Saints , to edifie them , have received the keys , and are Governours , and are Officers ; but all the faithfull are to watch , to knit together the Saints , Ergo ; first , the major is false ; for if because the Saints may edifie , they shall have joynt power and use of the keys with the Officers , they may administrate the Sacraments . Now , because they may in a Christian way doe some acts of edifying , it followeth not that therefore they may doe these acts by power of the keyes , and with an Ecclesiasticall and Church-power ; they may doe the same duty , Ergo , with the same power . A scholler may teach his school-fellow the same lesson that his Master doth teach him ; Ergo , he may doe it by the same Magisteriall authority : A wife may cure a disease , Ergo , shee may by the same authority that a Doctor of Physicke , approved by the incorporation of Physicians , cure a disease , it followeth not :

Beleeve me , so still doth a a Socin . tract . de Eccl. pag. 13. Socinus , and b b Ostorodius in instit. cap. 42. pag. 437. Ostorodius , c c The. Nicol. tract . Soc. de Eccl. c. 2. p. 118. Theoph. Nicolaides , reason against Gods ordinance of a sent Ministerie . d d Rob. 137 , 138. 139. Robins . God hath indeed set in the body some to be eyes and mouth , and hath not said to all the Church , Goe and preach ; but , first , they have not their gifts from the Church . Secondly , you would have the body to starve , if such hands as Deacons will not feed ; and all the body blinde , if the eyes of the watchmen be blinde .

Answ. Yet thus much is granted , that gifts give not the keyes , nor authority to use gifts ; and so that all beleevers , though gifted and graced also , have not power of the keyes . 2. It 's certaine , that in a constituted Church there be no hands nor mouthes to doe and speake by authority , and ex officio , by vertue of an office , save onely Elders and Pastors , and that if they doe or speake , they doe it extraordinarily , when Churches hands are lame , and her eyes blinde ; or if they doe and speake ordinarily , it is from the law of charity in a private way , not by power of the keyes , and as Judges and Officers .

Manuscript . 5 ch. 4 sect.

The Churches , not the Angels of the Churches , are blamed for Way of the Church of Christ , in n. E. not executing censures against Balaam , Jezabel , the Nicolaitans . (g) Robinson saith more , 1. These whose workes Christ commendeth , (b) Robinson pag. 141. for that dwelling where Sathans throne was , they kept his name and denyed not his faith ; these he reproveth for suffering the doctrine of Balaam and the Nicolaitans 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. 2. They which were commended by Christ , for their workes , love , service , faith , patience , increase of workes ; are reproved for suffering Jezabel , but these were not the Angels onely . 3. These conjunctions ( but ) ( never the lesse ) say , though they were z●alous in many things , yet they failed in not being zealous enough against false teachers .

Ans. 1. These connexions prove guiltinesse in Angels or Pastors , and one common fault may be laid upon them all , but hence it followeth not ; that they all , abused one and the same power of the Keyes , as being all collaterall Judges , no doubt the Angels preached not against Balaam , J●zabel , and the Nicolaitans doctrine , and yet women dwelt where Sathans throne is , and there faith and patience was commended , and yet our brethren will not say women are rebuked , and all the beleevers , because they did not pastorally preach against Balaam , and Iezabel ; so this argument hurteth them as much as our cause . The Pastors were guilty , because they did not in their place use the Keyes ; and the people , because they did not say to Archippus and their Officers , Take heed how you governe ; as Israel was involved in Achans trespasse , because they warned not one another . 2. Seeing the Spirit of God maketh mention of Churches in the plurall number , and every one of the seven Churches , of Ephesus , Rev. 2. 7. of S●yrna , v. 11. of Pergamus 17. of Thyatira 29 of Sardis 3. 6. Philadelphia 13. Laodicea 22. It is cleare , there were more Churches then a single Congregation , and an independent incorporation in every one of them , and so a Presbytery of Angels in every one of them behoved to be guilty of this neglect of discipline , yet not all one and the same way . It is not cleare enough , though that the whole Church in Ephesus was to be rebuked , or that all and every one of the Elders , whereof there were a good number , ( Act. 20. 26. He prayed with them all they all wept sore , ) were guilty of these abuses of the power of the Keyes ; for in Sardis there were a few names which had not defiled their garments , yet the whole body is rebuked .

Manuscript , Ch. 5. Sect. 4.

When the word Congregation is put for the Elders or Judges only , Way of the Church of ch. in n. E. it is never understood of them sitting in consistery and judgement there alone by themselves , and apart from the people , but in the presence of the publick assembly , who also had liberty in such cases to rescue an innocent from unjust judgment , 1 Sam. 14. 45.

I answer , we urge not a Church assembly of Elders only to exclude the people from hearing yea and in an orderly way , from speaking , reasoning and disputing even in our Generall assembly , but for judiciall concluding , we find not that given to any , but to the Church-guides , Act. 15. 6. Act. 16. 4. 2 It is not a good argument , the people sate with the Rulers and rescued innocent Jonathan , 1 Sam. 14. Therefore all the people may fit and give judiciall sentence or impede the Elders to sentence any . This I grant , is alledged by Ainsnorth a a Ainsnorth . for to give popular government to the people ; as also , 1 King 21. 13. and Ier. 26. 11 , 12. but 1. a fact of the people is not a Law . 2. It was one fact and that in an extraordinary case of extreame iniquity in killing innocent Ionathan a Prince and Leader of the people . 3. in a civill businesse , and the people were to be executioners of the sentence of death , and they saw it manifestly unjust . 4. they were not the common people only , but in that company were the Princes of the Tribes and heads , and the King and his family only on the other side ; what will this infer , but that there were no Kings in Israel , who had power of life and death , nor any judges , as Ainsworth , contrary to Scripture sayth , but that the people were joynt Judges with the King , and that the people in the New Testament are co-equall Judges with the Elders , from so poore an example ; and so the Separatists b b Cons. art . 24. ap 8. proving from the peoples power of judging in civill causes ( which yet is a wide mistake ) and a punishment bodily to be inflicted upon strangers as c c John Paget defence of Paget doth learnedly observe ; doe conclude the peoples power of judging in Ecclesiastick causes , which concerneth only the members Church-gover . ch. 3. pa. 13. and p 7. of the visible Church .

Manuscript .

We grant , it is orderly to tell the Elders the offence , that the whole Manus . ih , ch. 5. Sect. 4. Church be not frivolously troubled ; but it followeth not , that the Officers may judge there alone without consent of the people : he who told his complaint to the Levite , told it orderly enough to the whole Congregation assembled at Mizpeh Jud. 20.

Ans. These to whom we are to complaine , these and these only , are to be heard , and obeyed as Judges binding and loosing in Earth and validly in Heaven , Mat. 18. but these are not the multitude , nor one Elder only , but the Church of Elders . 2. if the Church of Believers be the only subject ( as you teach ) of the Keys , and not the Elders , but in so far as they are parts of the believing Church , then it is more orderly to complaine to the multitude who only are proper Judges , then to Elders who are not properly Judges .

Manuscript .

A second reason why we allow such power to the people in Ib. Ch. 5. Sect. 4. Church censures , is from the Church of Corinth . 1. He directeth the whole Church of Corinth to whom he writeth , to excomunicate the incestuous man .

Ans. He writeth to all the faithfull , and so to women ; the woman is not to usurpe authority over the man , 1 Cor. 14. 34. 1 Tim. 2. 11 , 12. but to voyce judicially in Excommunication is an act of Apostolick authority .

Manuscript .

Ib. The whole Church is to be gathered together and to Excommunicate , Ergo not the Bishop and Elders alone , 3. Pauls spirit was to be with them and Christs authority , 4. the whole Church , 2 Cor. 2. did forgive him , 5. nothing is in the Text that attributeth any power to the presbytery apart , or singularly above the rest , but as the reproofe is directed to all , for not mourning , so is the Commandement of casting out directed to all .

Ans. 1. It is cleare that if some were gathered together in the power of Christ and the spirit of Paul , that is , in the authority that he received over the Corinthians , for edification , 2. Cor. 10. 8. and Pauls Rod , 1 Cor. 4. 21. then as many as were convened Church-ways , and mourned not for the same , did not cast out and authoritatively forgive ; seeing women and believing children did convene with the whole Church , and were not humbled for the sinne ; and yet women and believing children cannot be capable of pastorall authority over the Church , which was given for edification . 2. The power of the Lord Jesus , that is , the keys of the Kingdom of God were committed to Peter , as to a Pastor , Mat. 16. and power to bind and retaine , to loose and pardon sinnes , Joh. 20. 20 , 21 , 22. Which power is given to these who are sent as Ambassadors as the Father sent Christ , v. 21. which power cannot be given to puffed up women , 3. Except this be said , the Text must beare that there was not a Presbytery of Prophets , Governors and Teachers there of all , who had a more eminent act in excommunicating and Church pardoning , then the women who mourned not , for by what reason our brethren would have the act of excommunicating an act of the whole Church convened , including all to whom Paul writeth , women and children , by that same reason we may appropriate it to these only , who are capable of Pauls pastorall spirit , and authority , according as attributes are appropriated ( by good logick ) to their own subjects , else that cannot be expounded 1 Cor. 14. 31. For ye may all prophecy one by one . What ? may all that the Apostle writeth unto , 1 Cor. 1. 2. prophecy one by one ? even the whole Church , even all sanctified in Christ Jesus ? called to be Saints , and all that in every place call upon the Lord Iesus ? I thinke our brethren will not say so : so when Paul sayth , 1 Thess. 5. 12. Esteem highly of these that are over you if that command be directed to the whole Church of the Thessalonians which is in God our Father , as the Epistle is directed to them all , 1 Thess. 1. 1. then doth Paul command the Elders in Thessalonica to esteem highly of themselves , for their own workes sake : if exhortations be not restricted according to the nature of the subject in hand we shall mock the Word of God , and make it ridiculous to all .

Ainsworth sayth , The putting away of leaven was commanded to all Israel . Ergo , the putting away of the incestuous person is commanded to them all in Corinth without exception , and the putting away of the Leper was commanded to all Israel .

I answer . 1. Proportions are weake probations , 1. every single woman , 2. privately in her own house , 3. without Churches consent and authority was to put away Leaven ; but it is a poore inference , therefore every woman in Corinth he●e alone might excommunicate without the Churches authority , and in their private houses . 2. The Priest only judicially putteth away the Leper , Deut. 17. 13. and the Priests without the peoples consent put out Uzzah their Prince from the Sanctuary , when he was a Leper . 2. Ch●on . 26. 20.

Manuscript .

Lest this judgement should be restrained to Presbyteries only , he Manuscript , ●b . magnifieth the judging of the Saints , taking occasion from thence to stretch their judicature , in some cases , even to the deciding of civill causes , rather then that they should fly suddenly to Law one against another , before Infidels .

Ans. That upon this Church judging , he taketh occasion to magnifiy the judging of the Saints , I see not , for he passeth to a new subject in reprehending their pleadng , before heathen Judges . 2. Though that cohesion of the Chapters were granted , yet doth he not magnifie the Judging , of all the multitude , the Saints of men and women shall judge the world by assenting to Gods Judging , but all the Saints , even women , are not Church-Iudges . Also he extendeth Judging of civill causes to the most eminent Seniors amongst them v. 5. Is there not a wise-man amongst you ? no , not one who shal be able to judge betwixt his brethren ? and therefore he layeth a ground , that far lesse can all the rest of men and women be Judges Ecclesiastick to binde and loose validly in Earth and Heaven , but onely the wiser and selected Elders .

I may adde what Master Robinson sayth , that our argument from confession , may be objected to the Apostles no lesse then to Separatists , Acts 1. 23. They presented two ; that is , the multitude which were about an hundred and twenty men and women , and Act 6. 5. And the while multitude presented seven Deacons to the twelue Apostles , and the twelve Apostles called the multitude , and so spake to them and v. 6. prayed and laid hands on the Deacons . Now when the multitude Acts 1. presented Joseph and Matthias , it behoved them to speak ; spake they joyntly , or all at once ? this were confusion , contrary to , 1 Cor. 14. 14. did the women speak ? they must not meddle in Church-maters , v. 34. did children speak ? It is impossible ; so Acts 6. did all the twelve Apostles speak at once ? and pray ( vocally ) at once ? did the whole multitude speak when they presented the seven Deacons ? that is confusion ; by these and the like , women and children are utterly excluded from the Church , as no parts of it , Acts 15. 22. The whole Church sent Messengers to Antioch , 1 Co● . 14. 23. the whole Church commeth together in one , to exercise themselves in praying and prophecying , but children could not send messengers nor pray , nor prophecy , and women might not speak in the Church , and therefore women and children must be excluded from being parts of the Church ; if one be excluded , why not another ? and so till we come to the chiefe of the Congreation .

Ans. This is much for us every way ; therefore the 120 , Acts 1. and the multitude , Acts 6. did present the two elect Apostles , and the seven Deacons by some select persons , and when these select persons spake , the Church spake , and when one Apostle prayed the whole twelve prayed ; Ergo , there is a representative Church which performeth Church actions in the name of the Church , and you will have a representative Church in the New Testament to be a point ( as you say a a Inf. pag. 163 ) of Judaisme ; yet here you are forced to acknowledge it , 2. By all good reason when Christ , Mat. 18. sayth if he refuse to heare the Church , that is , the speaking and commanding Church , let him be as a heathen , he must speak of a representative Church ; for a collective body of all believers even women and children cannot command , nor soeak in the Church , and it were confusion that women and children should bind and loose on Earth as Christ doth in Heaven , and when Paul sayth that the convened Church , 2 Cor. 5. should cast out the incestuous person , he meaneth not that they should all Judge him by the power and authority of Christ , and the pastorall spirit of Paul ; therefore your doctrine is false , that as many are Judges in the Judiciall acts of excommunication , as did not mourn for the sin , as were Saints by calling , and to whom Paul writeth , 1 Cor. 2. and as met together for the publick worship , for it is as great confusion for women and children who are true parts of the Church to be Iudges , cloathed with Christs authority , and Pauls Ministeriall spirit , as for women to speak , or for twelve Apostles to pray all at once vocally in the Church ; and the whole Church is said , Acts 15. 22. to send messengers , and Canons to Antioch to be observed , and yet that whole Church are but , in the act of governing and decerning , and judiciall passing of these acts , only Apostles and Elders , Acts 15. 2. v. 6. Act 16. 4 : Act. 21. 5. ( Ergo ) it followeth not that we exclude women and children from being parts of the Church , or that all are excluded except Elders ; all are parts of the mysticall , and redeemed Church ; officers are only the ministeriall Church , and Mat. 18. Christ speaketh only of a ministeriall Church in the judiciall act of excommunication ; though if you speak of excommunication in all the acts of it , we doe not exclude the whole multitude , Mat. 8. nor 1 Cor. 5. from a popular consenting to the sentence , and a popular execution of the sentence of excommunication and therefore though the whole Church convene , yet the whole Church conveneth not with Pauls ministeriall spirit to excommunicate judicially ; either must our brethren here acknowledge a Synocdoche , as well as we , yea and a representative and select Church in the judiciall act of excommunication , else they must say , that women and children , Ex officio , by a ministeriall spirit doe Judge and so speake in the Church , for he who Judgeth Ex officio , in the Church , may and must speake and excommunicate in the Church Ex officio : but more of this hereafter .

CHAP. 3. SECT. 3. QUEST. 4.

WHether or no is there a necessity of the personall presence of the whole Church in all the acts of Church-censures ?

The Author a a Manuscript . The way of the Church of Ch. in n. E. giveth us ground for this question , whiles as he holdeth the company of believers cloathed with the whole power of the keys , and these meeting all of them , even the whole Church to be the only visible instituted Church . And b b Ainsworth animad vers. p. 20. 21. Ainsworth sayth , with what comfort of heart can the people now excommunicate him , if they have not heard the proceedings against him ? Let wise men Iudge , if this be not spirituall tyranny , that Elders would bring upon the conscience of men ? Also it would seem● if the people be to execute the sentence of excommunication , that they cannot in faith repute the excommunicated man , as a Heathen and a Publican , and eschew his company , except they be assured in conscience , that he is lawfully cast out : now how shall they have this assurance ? the Elders say , he is lawfully cast out , and the cast out man sayth , no , but he is wronged ; therefore it would seem that all the people must be personally present to heare that the processe be lawfully deduced against him , else they punish , upon a blind faith , now the like question is , if Souldiers can make war , if they be not present at the counsell of war to know the just reasons of war , which the Prince and States doe keepe up to themselves , upon grave considerations . And the same is the question , if the Lictor and executioner of the Judges sentence be obliged in conscience to know , if the Judge have proceeded orderly and justly , or if he upon the testimony of the Judge , may execute the sentence of death .

1. Distinction , There be oddes betwixt a free willing people executing the sentence of the Church , and meere Executioners and Lictors .

2. Dist. There is a doubting of conscience speculative , through ignorance of some circumstance of the fact ; and a doubt of conscience practicall through ignorance of something , which one is obliged to know , and so there is also a speculative and a practicall certainty of a thing .

3. Dist. There is one certaeinty required in questione Juris , in a question of Law , and another in questione facti , in question of fact .

4. Dist. There is , and may be an ignorance invincible which a man cannot help , in a question of fact ; but Papists and Schoole-men erre , who maintaine an invincible ignorance in questione Juris , in a question of Law , and in this they lay imperfection on Gods Word .

5. Dist. There is a morall diligence given for knowledge of a thing which sufficeth to make the ignorance excusable , and there is a morall diligence not sufficient .

6. Dist. There is a sentence manifestly unjust as the condemning of Christ by witnesses , belying one another , and a sentence doubtsomely false .

1. Conclu . The members of the visible Church are not meere Lictors and Executioners of the sentences of the Elder-ship , 1. Because they are to observe , warne , watch over the manners of their fellow members and to teach , exhort , and admonish one another ; and are guilty , if they be deficient in that , 2. Because by the Law of charity , as they are brethren under one head Christ , they are to warne and admonish their Rulers . And by the same reasons the people of the Jewes were not meere executioners , though they were to stone the condemned Malefactors , yet were they not Judges as Ainsworth sayth . It is true Levit. 20. 2. they were to kill him who offered his seed to Moloch ; but the precept is given first to Moses the supreme Magistrate , the accused for innocent blood stood before the children of Israel , Num. 35. 22. but their Gnedah signifieth the Princes , I●s . 20. 4. The slayer shall declare his cause before the Elders of that City , 2 Sam. 7. 7. there be Tribes who are feeding or governing Tribes , or 1 Chron. 17. 6. Judges : there is no reason to understand by the children of Israel or the Congregation , only the common people , when the word doth include a Congregation of Princes , so Num. 8. 11. the Levites are the children of Israels shake-offering a a Ainsworth animadvers . p. 25. Ainsworth saith the people are put for the Princes , the sins of unjust Judges are peoples sinnes , not because they judicially exercise unjust acts , for they should not judge at all , but because they mourne not for the publick sins of Judges , Eze. 9 9. and because the people love to have it so , Jer. 5. 31.

2. Concl. When the sentence of the Judge is manifestly unjust , the executioners and Lictors are not to execute it ; for Doeg the Edomite sinned in killing the Lords Priests at the command of Saul , and the footmen of Saul did religiously refuse that service , 1 Sam. 22. 17. The Souldiers who crucified Christ , not only as men , but as Licto●s , sinned against a principle of the Gospel which they were obliged to believe ( Maries sonne is the true Messiah ) nor are we to joyne with a Church excommunicating a man , because he confessed Christ Iob. 9. nor need we consent to these , that the Senate of Venice is excommunicated by Paul the fift An. 1607. and Henricus Borbonius King of Navarre by Sixtus 5. and Elizabeth of England by Pius 5. and Henry the 4. by Gregory 7. or Hilderland , and Martin Luther by Leo the 10. An. 1520. the Pope is not the Catholick Church , as many learned Papists , especially , the Parisian Theologues teach .

3. Concl There is not required the like certainty of conscience practicall in a question of fact , that is required in a question of Law . 1. Because in a question of Law all ignorance is morall and culpably , evill to any who undertaketh actions upon conscience of obedience to others ; for to all within the visible Church the word of God is exactly perfect , for faith and manners ; and every on is obliged to know all conclusions of Law that are determinable by Gods word . 2. Every one in his actions is to do● out of a plerophorie , and a full perswasion of heart , that what he doth , pleaseth God , Rom. 14. 14. I know and am perswaded by the Lord Jesus , that nothing is uncleane of it selfe . 3. We are to doe nothing but what is lawfull , and what in our consciences we are perswaded is lawfull , and are to know what is sinne , and what is no sin . All Souldiers in war , and Lictors , and these who execute the sentence of excommunication , are to know , what are the just causes of war , and what crimes by Gods Law deserve death , and what not , as what homicide , sorcery , parricide , incest , and the like sinnes deserve by Gods Law , and what not : because every one is obliged to know morally , what concerneth his conscience that he be not guilty before God ; the executioner who beheaded Iohn Baptist sinned , because he was obliged to know this ( a prophet who rebuketh incest in a King , ought not to be put to death therefore ) It was unlawfull for the men of Iudah to come and make war with Ieroboam and the ten Tribes , because God forbade that war , 1 Ki. 12. 23 , 24.

4. Concl. It is not enough that some say , if the question be negatively just , then Souldiers and executioners , and people may execute the sentence , that is , if they see no unlawfulnesse in the fact , I meane unlaw fulnesse in materiâ juris , in a matter of Law ; hence some say , subjects and common Souldiers not admitted to the secrets of the councell of war , may fight lawfully , when there is this negative justice in the war ; but forraine Souldiers who are conduced , may not doe so a a Regula juris 19. in 6. and 38. in ff. non est sine culpa , qui , rebus , quae ad ipsum non spectant , se immiscet , cum periculo alterius . for the Law sayth he is not free of a fault who intermedleth with matters which belonge not to him , to the hurt of others ; so Teacheth b b Suarez , de tripl . virt dis. 13. de bello sect . 6. n. 8. Suarez c c Bannes in 22. q. 40. concl . 1. D. Bannes d d An. Duvallius in 22. tract . de charit . art. 3. Andr. Duvallius , yet the command of the Prince can remove no doubt of conscience , also that the cause of the war in the matter of Law , so far as it is agreeable to Gods word is not manifest to executioners , is there culpable ignorance no lesse then the ignorance of a sentence manifestly unjust , Ergo , the practise of these who execute a sentence negatively only just , is not lawfull , I prove the antecedent , beacuse the practicall ignorance of what we doe which is not warranted by Gods Word is alwayes culpable , whether the cause be cleare or darke : for no obscurity of Gods Law doth excuse our ignorant practise , when the Word of God can sufficienty resolve us . 2. It is not enough that our morall actions in their lawfulnes be just negatively ; because actions morall which are beside the Word of God ( praeter dei verbum ) to us , who hold Gods Word perfect in faith and manners , are also , contra dei verbum , against the Word of God , and so unlawfull . 3. Because actions morall having no warrant but the sole will and Commandement of superiors , are undertaken upon the sole faith : that what superiors command , if it seeme not to us unjust , though it be in it selfe unjust , may lawfully be done . Now we condemne this in Schoolemen and Popish casuistes , that the Commandement of superiors ( as sayth Gregor. de Valent. Bannes , Suarez , Silvester , Navarre ) may take away and remove all doubting of conscience , and make the action lawfull .

Whereas a a Nava●re dist . 7. de poe●itē . c. St qu●s aute● . Navarre , b b Corduba dist . 3 q. 4 & 5. Corduba c c Sylvester confessor . 3. s. 10. Sylvester d d Adrian quo . l libet 2. Adrian , hold that an action done without a due practicall certainty is unlawfull . If he shoud diligently ( e e Suarez . 1. 1. par. 2. de oper. sex dier. de proxim . regul. bonit . & malit . dis. 12. sect. 5. n. 3. sayth Suarez ) search for the truth , and cannot find it , yet the doubter may practise , so he practically perswade himselse , he doth it out of a good mind ; and whereas the Jesuite sayth , that it is his negligence in not seeking the truth , he answereth , his negligence which is by past , cannot have influence in his present action , to make it unlawfull , because it is past and gone . But I answer , it is Physically past , but it is morally present , to infect the action as habituall ignorance , maketh the acts of unbeliefe morally worse or ill . And to these we may adde , that he who doth with such a doubt , 1. He sinneth , because he doth not in faith f f Rom. 14. 23 2. He exposeth himselfe to the hazard of finning , and of joyning with an unjust sentence . 3. It is the corrupt Doctrine of Papists who muzzle up the people in ignorance , and discharge them to reade Gods Word , and so maintaine ( because of the obscurity and imperfection of Gods Word which is not able to determine all questions ) that there is an ignorance of many lawfull duties which is invincible , and to be excused , as no wayes sinfull , and which vitiateth not our morall actions , so a a Thomas 12. q. 19. art. 9. Thomas b b Bonavent . ib. art . 1. q. 3 Bonaventura , c c Richard act . 1. q. ● . Richard d d Gabriel ib. a●t 3. Gabriel e e Occam in 3. q. 3. Occam f f Antoni . 1 part tit . 3. c. 10. s. 4. Antoninus g g Adrian quod . l. 4. ar. 2. Adrianus h h Almaintrac . de opere morali . 1. c. 5. Almaine i i Suarez de oper. sex dic● in 12 par. 2. de prox . Reg. Bon. & mal . act. dis. 12. sect. 4 n. 6. Suarez , though Occam and Almain may be expounded favourably .

5. Concl. Souldiers , Lictors , Servants , People under the Eldership , are not meere instruments moved only by superiors , as Schoolemen say . 1. Because they are morall agents , and are no lesse to obey in Faith , then superiors are to command in Faith and they are to obey their Superiours only in the Lord . 2. They are to give all diligence that they be not accessary to unjust sentences , lest they partake of other mens sinnes . What k k Aquin. 22. q. 19. art. 9. Aquinas l l Valentia . tom . 3. dis. 3. q. 16 princ . 2. Greg. de Valent m m Duvallius 2. Tom. 1. tract . de human . act . 10 q. 4. art. 12. and And. Duvallius saith against this , is not to be stood upon .

6. Concl. But in questione facti , in matters of fact , there is not required that certainty of conscience . But that we may more clearely understand the conclusion , a question of fact is taken three wayes . 1. For a fact expressely set down in Gods Word , as that Moses led the people through the wildernesse , that Cain slew his brother Ab●l , these are questions de facto , not questiones facti , and must be believed as n n Almain . de potest . Eccle. & Laica . c. 16. Almaine and o o Occam . in . 3. q. 3. Occam say well , with that same certainty by which we believe Gods Word . 2. A question of fact is taken for a question , the subject whereof is a matter of fact , but the attribute is a matter of Law , as ( if Christ in saying he was the Son of God did blasphem ) if the Lords Priests in giving David shew-bread , did commit Treason against King Saul ) there is some question there made circa factum , about the fact , but it is formally a question of Law . For these questions may be cleared by Gods Word , and the ignorance of any questions which may be cleared by Gods Word , is vincible , and culpable , for the Law sayth a a Reg. juris Culpabilis est ignorantia rerum quas scire tenemur . The ignorance of these things which we are obliged to know is culpable , and excuseth not . But thirdly a question of fact is properly a question ( whether this Corinthian committed incest or no ) ( whether Tittrs committed murther , or no ) and in this there is sometimes invincible ignorance , when all diligence morally possible is given , to come to the knowledge of the fact . Now we know here the question of Law must be proved by the Law , all are obliged in concience to know what sinnes deserve death and Excommunication . But whether this man Iohn , Anna , Marie hath committed such sins , is a question of fact and cannot be proved by the Law , or the Word of God , for a a Reg. juris lex non est de singularibus , lex non c●rat de particula●●bus . the L●● is not anent singulars or particulars , this is proved by sense and the Testimonie of witnesses ; and therefore the certainty practicall of conscience here is humane and failible , not Divine and infallible .

Now though Souldiers , Lictors , or People joyne to the execution of a sentence , and have their doubtings anent the fidelity of the witnesses , yet when all diligence morally possible is given to try the matter , they may well be said to doe in Faith , though they have not certainty of Faith concerning the fact , , because there cannot be certainty of Divine Faith in facts ; mens confession , sense , the Testimony of witnesses cannot breed Divine Faith : yea here the Judge himselfe may condemne the innocent , and yet the sentence of the Judge may be most just because the witnesses are Lyers , and the Judge giveth out that sentence in Faith , because Gods Word hath commanded him to proceed , secundum allegata & probata , he must give sentence under b b Deut. 19. 15. Mat. 18. 16. ● Tim 5. 19. Exod. 23. 1. two or three witnesses ; yea , though the Judge saw , with his Eyes , the guilty commit the fact , yet he cannot by Gods Law condemne him , but upon the testimony of witnesses ▪ For the wise Lord seeth what confusion and tyranny should follow , if one might be both Index , actor , & t●stis , the Iudge , the accuser , and the witnesse . And when the Judge giveth out a sentence to absolve the guilty and condemne the innocent , his sentence is judicially and formally just , and materially and by accident and contrary to his intention only unjust , if the Judge in that case should say ( as Master Weemes observeth well ) c c Ioh. Weemes 3. vel expos. of judiciall Larres ch. 17. p. 69. such a proposition is true when he knoweth it to be false , and being posed and urged in conscience , is this an innocent man or no ? it he should answer and say he is not , he should then answer contrary to his knowledge ? but as a Judge he must answer , he is not innocent , because witnesses being with all possible diligence examined , have condemned him , and it is no inconvenience here to say , that the Judge hath one conscience as a man , and another contrary conscience as a Judge , in the question of fact ; for God hath tyed his conscience , as a Judge , to the fidelity of witnesses , known not to be false . I desire the Reader to see anent this more in a a Bonavent . 1. q9 . Bonaventura b b Rich. a●t . 1. q 3. Richardus c c Occam . q● 3. a● . 3. Occam d d Anton. 1. ● . ● act . 3. ca. 10. ● . 4. Antoninus e e Adrian . quod . lib. 4 〈◊〉 . ●● . Adrian , f f Weemes loc. cit . and our Countreyman Iohn Weemes and g g Henricus 2● . q●●●ll . 1. q. 8. Henricus . Now because Souldiers , Lictors , and people are not Judges , if they know the fact in Law deserveth such and such punishments , where the sentence is not manifestly false and unjust , but in the matter of Law just , though erroneous in the matter of fact , all possible dilligence being used by the Judges , they are to execute that sentence upon the testimony of the Judges , though they be not personally present at the proceedings of the Judges and Eldership which may be proved many wayes . 1. By the confession of our brethren , i● any of the Congregation be absent by Sicknesse , Child-birth paine , Trading over Sea , imprisonment , the Congregation doth justly put away from amongst them the incestuous Corinthian , and they who are absent are to repute the party Excommunicate , as a Heathen ; as their own practise is at censures in the week-day , the largest halfe of the Congregation is absent , yet the absent upon the testimony of the Church hold valid what is done by the Church . 2. Other sister Churches who ought not to be present at Church-censures , as our Brethren teach , are to repute the Excommunicate cast out by a sister Church-independent ( as they say ) as an Heathen , because being bound in Heaven : here , is he not bound in a Church visible , one mile distant from the Church Excommunicating ? yet this is no tyranny of conscience . 3. Women are to execute the sentence and to eschew the company of the party Excommunicated , yet are they not to be present ●s Judges to n●●rp authority over the men . This h h Robnson justi● . of sepa●at . p. 170. Robinson granteth . 4. This should evert all judicatories of peace and war , so many thousands , Acts 2. could not be present at every act of censure and that dayly , nor are acts o● Discipline necessarily tied to the Lords-day They are ( I grant ) acts of Divine worship , but the whole multitude of women and children are deprived of the liberty that God hath given them for six dayes to the works of their calling , if they must be personally present , at all the acts of Discipline , to cognosce of all scandals , and to here and receive Testimonies against Elders under two or three witnesses , which is the office of Timothy i i ● Tim. 5. ●● . this way the overseeing of the manners of the people , which also our Brethren laye upon the whole people , taketh up the great part of the Pastors office , and the whole office of ruling Elders . And if we lay upon the people the worke and all the acts of the office , how can we not lay upon them the office it selfe ? 5. All Israel gathered to war , from Dan to Beersheba , could not , by vertue of duty and obligation , be present personally at the determination of lawfull War : Nay if they were all present , as Judges , as c c Ains. loc. cit . Mr. Ainsworth would have them , there be no Governors and Feeders in Israel , but all the governed are Feeders , and so no Magistrate and Ruler , as Anabaptists teach here . 1. It were not lawfull for one to be King over more people , then he could in his own personall presence judge , contrary to Gods Word , that teacheth us to obey these who are sent by the supreme Magistrate , as we obey the King , 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. Ergo , these who are sent by him are lawfull Judges , and yet the King Judgeth by them , and in them . 2. This error is founded upon a worse error , to wit , that the supreme Magistrate had no power of life and death in Israel , without consent of the people , but certainly there are as specious and plausible reasons , if not more specious , for the peoples government in all civill matters , then there can be for their Church-power of judging in the Church-matters , and government therof . Yet there is no ground for it . 1. Because the Rulers only could not be charged , to execute judgement in the morning , to deliver the oppressed , to execute judgement for the Fatherlesse and the Widdow , nor can there be a promise made to establish , the Kings Throne for obeying that Commandement , as (a) Gods Jer. 22. 3 , 4 , 5. Deut. 17. 18 , 19 , 20. 1 Ki. 11. 38. 39. Isa. 1. 22. 23. Word teacheth ; if the people have as great , yea , greater power in Judging , then the Rulers have by this our Brethrens argument . They say all the Believers at Corinth . 1 Cor. 5. could not be commanded to cast out the incestuous person , nor could they all be taxed for omitting that duty , if they had not power to excommunicate . 2. Neither can the Spirit of God complaint that the Judges builded Zion with blood , and the heads of the house of Jacob , and Princes of the house of Israel did abhor judgement and pervert equity as the Prophets say , e e Micah . 3. 9 , 10. 11. nor could they be condemned as roaring Lyons and evening Wolves , as the Prophet sayth : for the Judge● might well be faultlesse , when the poore were crushed in the Gate , and Judgement turned into Gall and Wormewood , because they cannot helpe the matter , the people are the greatest part in caring matters in judgement . 2. We see f f Zeph. 3. 3. Davids practise in condemning the Amalckite out of his own confession , not asking the peoples consent , and in condemning to death g g 2 Sam. 1. 15 Baanah and Rehab , for killing Ishbosheth . Solomon gave sentence h h 2 Sam. 4. 8. 12. against Adoniiah , Ioab , Shimei , without consent of the people , David pardoned Shimei contrary to the counsell of Zerviahs sons . 3. If from the peoples witnessing and hearing of judgement in the Gate , we conclude the people were Judges , with the Rulers , there was never a time , when there was no King in Israel , and no Iudge to put evill doers to shame , but every man did what seemed good in his own Eys , contrary to Scripture i i 1 Ki. 2. because all are a generation of Kings and Princes no lesse then the Ruler himselfe , as Anabaptists teach . By the Doctrine of Jud. 18. 1. v. 7. our brethren I deny not but he that gathered stickes on the Sabbath was brought , Num. 15. 33. to Moses and to Aaron and to all the Congregation , but the Congregation signifieth not the common multitude . For 35. Moses received the sentence from God and pronounced it , and the Congregation stoned him to death , And Numb . 27. 1. The Daughters of Zelophehad stood before Moses , Eleazar , and before the Princes as Iudges , and before all the Congregation , as witnesses , not as Judges : but v. 6. 7. Moses gave out the judiciall sentence , from the Lords mouth . And 1 King . 21. 12. Naboth stood in presence of the people to be judged , but the Nobles and Princes were his Judges , because v. 8. Iezabel wrote to the Nobles and Princes that v. 10. they should carry out Naboth and stone him , to wit , judicially , and v. 11. The Nobles and Princes did as Iezabel had sent unto them . And Ieremiah cap. 26. pleaded his cause before the Princes and people , for v. 10. The Princes .

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Set down ( judicially ) in the entry of the new gate of the Lords House , nothing can be gathered from the place to prove that the people judged , but because Ieremiah spake to the Princes and the people who vers. 24 : were in a fury and rage against Ieremiah , if Ahikam had not saved him from their violence .

CHAP. 4. SECT. 4. QUEST. 5.

WHether there be no nationall or provinciall Church under the New Testament , but only a parishionall Congregation meeting every Lords day , in one place for the worship of God ?

The Author , in this first proposition denieth that there is any Nationall or provinciall Church , at all , under the New Testament , for clearing of the question observe these .

1. Dist. We deny that there is any diocescan , provinciall or Nationall Church under the care of one Diocesan or Nationall Prelate or Bishop , but hence it followeth not , there is no visible instituted Church now , but only a particular Congregation .

2. Dist. We deny any Nationall typicall Church , where a whole Nation is tyed to one publick worship , in one place , as sacrificing in the Temple .

3. Dist. We deny not but the most usuall acception of a Church , or visible meeting is given , as the a a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 cont. Tylen . parenes . l. 1. c. 25. sect. 4. & 5. refutator of Tylenus sayth , to a convention of people meeting ordinarily to heare the word and adminstrate the Sacraments b b Steph. in Thesau . Stephanus deriveth it from 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And c c Cyrill . Hyerosolamita . Cyrillus 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . As d d Causab . cont. Baron . 6. 42. Causabon observeth ; so these who meete at one Sermon are called Ecclesia , a Church , and it is called Ecclesia & concio , sayth the Refutator of Tilen , e e Loc. cit . but this hindreth not the Union of more particular Congregations , in their principall members for Church-government , to be the meeting or Church representative of these many united Congregations .

4. Dist. A Parish-Church materiall , is a Church within such locall bounds , the members whereof dwell contiguously togegether , one bordering on the other , our Brethren , meane not of such a Church ; for as f f Baynes diocesan tryall . q. 1. p. 12. Pa●● Baynes sayth well this God instituted not , because a company of Papists and Protestants may thus dwell together , as in a Parish , and yet they axe of contrary Churches , a Parish-Church formally is a multitude who meete in manner or forme of a Parish , as if they dwelt neere together in a place ordinarily , to worship God , as the 〈◊〉 of those who came together to celebrate the Lords Supper , is called the Church , 1 Cor. 11. 18. For first of all when ye come together in the Church , I heare that there are divisions amongst you . 〈◊〉 what ? have ye not houses to eat and drink in ? or despise ye the Church of God ?

1. Concl. If we shall evince a Church-visible in the Now Testament which is not a Parishionall Church , we evince this to be false which is maintained by our Brothren , that there is no visible instituted Church in the New Testament save onely a Parishionall Church , or a single independent Congregation . But this Church we conceive to have been no Parishionall Church . 1. Because these who met dayly and continued with one accord in the Temple , and breaking bread from house to house , that is , administrating the Sacraments together as our Brethren say , were a visible Church . But these being first an hundred and twenty , as Acts 1. and then three thousand added to them , Acts 2. 41. could not make all one single independent Congregation , whereof all the members had voyce in actuall government ▪ Ergo , they were a visible instituted Church , and yet not a Parishionall Church . The proposition is cleare , The Church of Ierusalem was one visible Church , and did exercise together a visible act of government , in sending messengers to 〈◊〉 Acts 15. 22. Then pleased it the Apostles and Elders and the whole Church ( our Brethren say , the whole collective Church Men , Women , and Children at Ierusalem ) to send men of their own company to Antioch 23. And wrote Letters , and some Decrees and Commandements to be observed . Now the many thousands of the Church of Ierusalem , by no possibility could meete a● one Parish , in one materiall house to administrate the Lords Supper : farre lesse could they be , as is said ; Acts 2. 42. all continuing stedfastly in the Apostles Doctrine and followship ( our Brethren say in P●rishionall or Congregationall fellowship ) and in breaking of bread and prayer , nor could they dayly continue in the Temple and breake bread from house to house , being all one Church , or a fixed parishionall meeting in one materiall house . Now it is cleare , they were 〈◊〉 even after they exceeded many thousands in number , in one Parishionall and Congregationall government , as our Brethren would prove from Acts 15 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. And Acts 2. 42 , 43. Else how could they have all their goods common , if there be not one visible government amongst them ? but this government could not be of one single Congregation ; for all who sold their goods , and had all things common , could not meete to give voyces in Discipline , a judicatory of so many thousand Judges were impossible and ridiculous .

2. Paul writeth to the Galatians , where there were many Parish , Churches , Gal. 1. 2. as our Brethren teach , yet doth he write to them , as he doth to the Corinthians : where our Brethren will have one Parish - Church , and writeth to them of uniformity of visible government , that they meete not together to keepe dayes , Sabbaths , and yeers Gal. 4. 10. as the Iewes did , that they keep not Iewish and ceremoniall meetings , and conventions , Gal. 4. 9. these Churches are called one lumpe in danger to be leavened , as Corinth is a Parishionall lumpe in hazard to be leavened , as our Brethren teach . Now how could Paul will 1 Cor. 5. them that the whole lump of all the Churches and Congregations in Galatia , be not leavened , except he lay down a ground , that they were with united authority to joyne in one visible government , against the false Teachers : suppose there were twenty sundry Kings in Brittaine , and twenty Kingdoms , could our friends over Sea write to us as to one Nationall lump , to beware of the Spanish faction , except they laid down this ground , that all the twenty little Kingdomes , had some visible union in Government , and might with joynt authority of all the twenty Kingdomes concurre to resist the common Enemie ?

Here that godly and learned Divine Mr. Baynes sayth , Communion in government is not enough to make them one Church , this ( sayth he ) a a Paul Baynes dioces . tryal . q. 1. p. 13. ib. p. 11. maketh them rather one in tertio quodam separabili ( in a third thing which may be separated ) then one Church ; Government being a thing that commeth to a Church now constituted , and may be absent , the Church remaning a Church , I answer this is a good reason against the Prelates Diocese●n Church , which , as Baynes sayth well , is such a frame in which many Churches are united with one head - Church ( under one Lord prelate , common Pastor to all the Pastors and particular Congregations of the Diocese ) as part aking of holy things , or at least in that power of government , which is in the chiefe , Church , for all the others within such a circuit . Now the prel●tes frame of a properly so called Church , under one Pastor being a Creature with a hundred heads , having Church and pastorall care of a hundred little Congregations and Churches , is a dreame , for we know no such Church fed by a Prelate , nor no such prelaticall Argos to oversee so many flocks ; nor doe we contend that the many Congregations united in a presbyteriall government , doe make a mysticall visible Church meeting for all the Ordinances of God . But union of many Congregations in a visible government is enough to make all these united Churches one visible , ministeriall and governing Church who may meete , not in one collective body , for the worship of God ; yet in one representative body , for government : though worship may be in such a convened Church also , as we shall heare . The name of the Church I thinke is given to such a meeting , Mat. 18. 17. Acts 15. 22. though more usually in Scripture the Church is a fixed Congregation , convened for Gods worship : now government is an accident separable , and may goe and come to a mysticall Church ; but I thinke it is not so to a Ministeriall governing Church . So the Church of Ephesus is called a Church in the singular number , Rev. 2. 1. and all the Churches of Asia , Rev. 1. 20. but seven Churches ; and Christ directeth seven Epistles to these seven , and writeth to Ephesus as to a Church having one government , v. 2. Thou hast tryed them which say they are Apostles and are not , and hast found them lyers . This was Ecclesiasticall tryall by Church-Discipline , yet Ephesus contained more particular Congregations then one . 1. Because Christ speaking to Ephesus only , sayth , v. 7. He that hath an Ear● to heare let him heare what the spirit sayth unto the Churches , in the plurall number 2. Because there were a good number of preaching Elders in Ephesus , Acts 20. 28. 36. 37. and it is incongruous to Gods dispensation to send a multiude of pastors , to over see ordinarily one single and independent Congregation . 3. This I have proved from the huge multitudes converted to the Faith in Ephesus , so huge and populous a City where many Iewes and Greeks dw●l● , and where the Word of God grew so migh●●ly , Acts 19. 17 , 18 , 19 , 20. and Christ writeth to every one of the seven Churches as to one , and yet exhorteth seven times in every Epistle , that Churches in the plurall number heare what the spirit sayth . Now as our Brethren prove that the Churches of Galatia , so called in the plurall number , were many particular Churches , so doe we borrow this argument , to prove that every one of the seven Churches , who are seven times called Churche in the plurall number , contained many Congregations under them , yet doth . Christ write to every one of the seven , as having one visible Government .

2. Concl. A nationall typicall Church● was the Church of the Iewes , we deny . But a Church nationall or provinciall of Cities , Provinces , and Kingdomes , having one common government , we thinke cannot be denyed : so Paul Baynes citeth for this , 1 Pet. 1. 1. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Though we take not the Word Church for a my sticall body , but for a ministeriall company . But Acts 1. Matthias was elected an Apostle by the Church , as our Brethren confesse , but not by a particular Congregation who met every Lords-Day , and in ordinary to partake of all the holy things of God , the Word and Sacraments . 1. Here were the Apostles , whose Parish - Church was the whole World , Mat. 28. 19. Goe teach all Nations 2. In this Church were the brethren of Christ from Galilee , Acts 1. 14. and some from Jerusalem v. 15. 3. No particular Church had power Ecclesiasticall , as this Church had power to choose an Apostle , who was to be a Pastor over the Churches of the whole World , as our brethren teach , so * * Paget defence of Church government Chap. 6. Mr. Paget sayth well ; These Disciples who waited upon Christ , such as Barsabas and Matthias , were no members of the Church of Jerusalem , and so what pow●r had a particular Church to dispose of them , who were no members of their Church ? 3. That which concerneth all , must be done by all , and that which concerneth the feeding and governing of the Church of the whole World , must be done by these who represent the Church of the whole World ; but that Matthias should be chosen , and ordained an Apostle to teach to the whole World , concerned all the Churches , and not one particular Church 〈◊〉 , Therefore there was here either no Church ( which no man dare say ) for ●here is here a company of believers where there is preaching and Church ▪ government , v. 15. 16. 26. or then there was here a Congregation which is against sense and Scripture ; or there is a Church Provinciall , Naturall , or Oecumenick ; call it as you please , it is a visible Church instituted in the New Testament , after the ascension of Christ , and not a Parishionall Church . Some answer , this was extraordinary and meerely Apostolick , that an Apostle should be ordained , and is no warrant for a nationall Church now , when the Churches of Christ are constituted . But I answer , this distinction of ordinary and extraordinary is wearied and worne to death with two much employment . 2. Beza , Calvin , Piscator , Tilenus , Whittaker , Chamier , Pareus , Bucanus , professors of Leyden , Walaeus , Willet , P. Martyr , Ursinus , &c. and all our Divines , yea a a Lorin . comment in act . Lorinus the J●suite , b b Cajetan com . ●b . Cajetan , alledge this place with good reason to prove , that the ordination and election of Pastors belongeth to the whole Church , and not to one man , Peter , or any Pope . Yea c c Robin justi . p. 168 , 169. Robinson and all our Brethren , use this place , to prove , that the Church to the second comming of Christ hath power to ordaine , and exanthorate and censure her officers . 2. We desire a ground for this , that the Ecclesiasticall power of the Church which is ordinary and perpetuall to Christs second comming , should joyne as a coll●terall cause in ordination and election of an Apostle ▪ which ordination is extraordinary , temporary & apostolick ; see for this d d Pet. Martyr com in 1 Cor. 15. Pet. Martyr e e Whittaker com . 4 q. 1. p. 381 Whittaker f f Bilson perpet . govern . p 338. Bilson g g Chamier pan . l. 6. ●om 2. Chamier , h h Pareus 1 Cor. 1. 5. com . Mat. 18. Pareus , i i Beza , annot. in act . 1. v. 23. & 26. Beza . k k Calvin . comment in act . 1. 26. Calvin , l l Harmon . confess . art . 29 , 30. Harmonie of the confessions m m 〈◊〉 de Eccl. li 1. c. 4 Iunius , n n Cartwright refut R●em 1 Gor. 5 3 4 Cartwright o o Fulk against the Rhemistes act 1. 26 Fulk p p Ursin explic . Par 2. p. 534. Ursinus q q Zwinglius expl act . 1. 23. 26 Zwinglius r r Munsterus in Mat. 18. Munsterus , and s s Theodoret. dialog . 1. Theodoret ▪ would have us to rest upon Apostolick demonstrations like this . And t t Irenaeus cont Herm●g lib. 3. Irenaeus speaketh against rectifiers of the Apostles in this u u Cyprian l. 2. Epist. 4. Cyprian sayth the like , 2 Acts 6. A Church of Hebrewes and Graecians , together with the twelve Apostles is not a particular Ordinary Congregation , and a governing Church choosing Deacons , therefore they are a nationall Church ; though the first ordination of Deacons be meerely Apostolick , and immediately from Iesus Christ , yet the ordination of these seven persons was a worke of the Churches power of the keys . Now let our Brethren speake , if this was a Congregationall Church , that meeteth ordinarily to the word and Sacraments , such as they say the Church of Corinth was , 1 Cor. ●1 . 18. So say I of the Church , Acts 15. 22. called Apostles , Elders and Brethren and the whole Church , this could not be a particular Church ; for no particular Congregation hath Ecclesiasticall power to prescribe Decrees , and Canons to all the Churches of the Gentiles , and that this was done by an ordinary Ecclesiastick power that remaineth perpetually in a Church , such as this was , is cleare , because our Brethren prove that the whole multitude spake in this Church from vers. 12. Then all the multitude kept silence , and therefore the multitude ( say our Brethren ) spake from v. 21. all the Church voyced in these Decrees and Canons , say they .

3. Sister Churchers keepe a visible Church-communion together . 1. They heare the word , and partake of the Seales of the Covenant , occasionally one with another . 2. They eschew the same excommunicated heretick , as a common Church-enemy to all . 3. They exhort , rebuke comfort , and edifie one another , as members of one body visible . 4. If one sister Church fall away , they are to labour to gaine her , and if she will not be gained , as your Author sayth a a Way of the Church of Chin N. E. c. 6. sect. 1. they tell it to many sister Churches , if shee refilse to heare them . they forsake Communion with her . 1. Here is a visible body of Christ , and his Spouse , having right to the keyes , word and seales of grace . 2. Here is a visible body exercising visible acts of Church-fellowship one toward another . Hence here a visible Provinciall , and Nationall Church exercising the specifick acts of a Church . Ergo , Here is a Provinciall and Nationall Church . For to whom that agreeth which essentially constituteth a Church visible , that must be a visible Church . You will say , they are not a visible Church because they cannot , and doe not ordinarily all meete in one materiall house , to heare one and the same word of God , and to partake of the same Seales of the Covenant joyntly : but I answer 1. This is a begging of the question . 2. They performe other specifick acts of a visible Church , then to meete ordinarily , to partake joyntly , and at once , of the same ordinances . 3. If this be a good reason that they cannot be a Nationall Church , because they meete not all ordinarily to heare the some word , and to partake of the same Ordinances , then a locall and visible and ordinary union joyntly in the same worship , is the specifick essence of a visible Church ; but then there was no visible Nationall Churches in Iudea , for it was impossible that they could all meete in one materiall house , to partake of the same worship . 4. These who for sicknes and necessary avocations of their calling , as Navigation , Traffiquing and the like , cannot ordinarly meet with the congregation to partake joyntly with them of these same Ordinances , loose all membership of the visible Church , which is absurd ; for they are cast out for no fault . 5. This is not essentiall to a nationall Church , that they should ordinarily all joyntly meet for the same worship , but that they be united in one ministeriall government , and meet in their chiefe members , and therefore our Brethren use an argument , à specie ad gen●s negativè ; a provinciall or nationall company of believers cannot performe the acts of a particular visible Church ; Ergo , such a company is not a visible Church , just as if I would reason thus : A Horse cannot laugh ; Ergo , he is not a living Creature , or it is an argument à negatione unius speciei , ad negationem alterius , such a company is not such a congregationall Church , Ergo , it is no visible Church at all ; an Ape is not a reasonable Creature . Ergo , it is not an Ape .

3. Conclu . There ought to be a fellowship of Church communion amongst all the visible Churches on Earth ; Ergo de jure and by Christ his institution there is an universall or catholick visible Church . I prove the antecedent . 1. Because there ought to be mutuall fellowship of visible Church-duties , as where there is one internall fellowship , because Eph. 4. 4. we are one body , one spirit , even as we are called in one hope of our calling , v. 5. one Lord , on Father , one Baptisme , v. 6. one God , and Father of all . There also should there be externall fellowship , and Church - fellowship , of exhorting , rebuking , comforting , and Church-praying , and Church-praising , in the behalfe of all the visible Churches on earth , even for those , whose faces we never saw , Coloss. 2. 1. and when one nationall Church falleth away , the visible Churches of the Christian world are obliged to rebuke , and to labour to gaine such a Church , and if she will not be gained , to renounce all the foresaid communion with such an obstinate Nation . 2. As the Apostles had one publicke care of all the Churches , and accordingly kept visible fellowship , as they had occasion to preach , write to them , pray , and praise God for them , so this care as Apostolick I grant is gone and dead with the Apostles ; but the pastorall and Church-care , and consequently acts of externall fellowship are not dead with the Apostles , but are left in the Church of Christ , for what Church-communion of visible fellowship members of one particular congregation keepe one with another , that same by due proportion , ought nationall Churches to keepe amongst themselves . 3. This is cleare Act. 1. where particular Churches with the Apostles did meete , and take care to provide a Pastor and an Apostle , Matthias , for the whole Christian Church , and why ●ut particular Churches , are hereby taught to confer all Church-authority that God hath given them , for the rest of the visible Churches ; and the Churches conuened in their speciall members , Acts 15. 12. extended their Church-care , in a Church-communion of Ecclesiastick canons to all the visible Churches of the Jewes and Gentiles . Hence Oecumenick and generall councells should be jure divino , to the second comming of Christ ; Neither need we stand much on this that our Brethren say , that one Catholick visible Church is a night dreame , because no Church is visible save only a particular congregation , the externall communion whereof in meeting in one materiall house ordinarily , and partaking of the same word and Sacraments , doth incurre in our senses , whereas a Church communion and visible fellowship with the whole Christian Churches on Earth is impossible , and no wayes visible . But I answer , if such a part of the Sea , the Brittish Sea be visible , then are all the Seas on earth visible also , though they cannot all come in one mans senses at one and the same time ; so if this Church particular be visible , then all the Churches also in their kind are visible . 2. There be acts of Church-communion externall with all the visible Churches on earth , Ergo , the whole Catholick Church according to these acts is visible . I prove the antecedent , we pray in a Church-way publickly for all the visible Churches on earth , we praise Church-wayes publickly for them , we fast and are humbled Church-wayes before God when they are in trouble , and so ought they to doe with us ; we by preaching , writing , and Synodicall constitutions proclaime the common enemie of all the Churches to be the Antichrist , his doctrine and the doctrine of that body whereof he is Head to be false and hereticall , by writings we call all the people of God to come out of Bab●l , and we renounce externall communion with Rome , in Doctrine , Discipline , Ceremonies : and Rites , all which are Church-acts of externall communion with the reformed catholick visible Churches , neither to make a Church visible to us , is it requisi●e that we should see the faces of all the members of the Catholick visible Church , and be in one materiall Church with them at once , partaking of the same visible worship : yea , so the Church of Iudea should not be one visible Church , which our Brethren must deny , for they had one Priest hood , on Temple , one Covenant of God visibly professed by all ; yet could they not all meete in one materiall Temple to partake together at once of all Gods O dinance● . For I partake in externall worship with these of New England , who are baptised according to Christs institution , without the signe of the crosse , though I never saw their faces . Hence all may see that Oecumenick councel's are de jure and Christs lawfull Ordinances , though de facto they be not , through the corruption of our nature ; yet such a visible Church-fellowship in externall Church-communion is kept in the whole catholics Church visible , as may be had , considering the perversity of men , and the malice of Satan .

It is constantly denied by our brethren , that the Church of the Iewes was a congregationall Church , and of that frame and institution with the Christian Church : but that it was peculiar and meerely in laicall to be a nationall Church ; yet let me have liberty to offer a necessary distinction here . 1. a nationall Church is either when a whole Nation , and all the Congregations and Synogogues thereof are tied by Divine precept , to some publique acts of typicall worship , in one place , Which the Lord hath chosen ; so all Israel were to sacrifice at Jerusalem onely , and the Priests were to officiate in that kind , there onely , and they to pray toward the Temple , or in the Temple , and they to prese●t the male children there , as holy to the Lord , Luke 2. 23 &c. this way indeed the Church of the Jewes , in a peculiar manner , was a Nationall Church ; and thus farre our brethrens arguments doe well conclude , that the Jewish Church was Nationall in a peculiar manner proper to that Church onely . But a Nationall Church is taken in another sense now , for a people to whom the Lord hath revealed his statutes and his testimonies , Whereas he hath not dealt so with every Nation , Psal. 147. 19 , 20. which Church is also made up of many Congregations and Synagogues , having one worship and government that doth morally concerne them all . Thus the Iewish Church was once Nationall , and that for a time ; God chose them of his free grace , to be a people to himselfe , Deut. 7. 7. and Deut. 32. 8. When the most high divided to the Nations their inheritance . Iacob was the lot of his inheritance , Amos 3. 2. You onely have I chosen of all the families of the earth . But the Jewish Church was in this sence but Nationall for a time ; Now hath God ( Act. 11. v. 18. ) also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life , and called the Gentiles , and made them a Nationall Church , Hos. 1. 11. 1 Pet. 2. 10 , 11. Esay 54. 1 , 2 , 3. that is , he hath revealed his testimonies to England , to Scotland , and He hath not done so to every Nation . So if a false Teacher should goe through Israel and call himselfe the power of God , as Simon Magus did . All the Congreations and Synagogues in Israel might joyne together to condemne him ; if there were such a thing as an Arke in Scotland , if it were taken captive as the Prelates kept the Gospell in bonds , it were a morall dutie to all the Congregations , to convene in their principall Rulers and Pastors to bring againe the Arke of God , and by the power of Discipline to set it free ; and if the whole Land were involved in a Nationall apostacie , they are to meet in their principall members , and this is morall to Scotland , as to Israel by Ordinances of the Church to renew a Covenant with God , that his wrath may be turned off the Land . In this sence , we see it never proved , that it was peculiar to Israel , onely to be a Nationall Church .

Nay , I affirme , that the Jewes had their Congregationall Churches , as we have . For that is a Congregationall Church which meeteth , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in that same place , for Doctrine and Discipline . But the Jewes meet every Sabbath in their Synagogues , for teaching the people , Gods Law , and for Discipline . Ergo , the people of the Jewes had their Congregationall Churches , as we have . The major proposition is the doctrine of our brethren , except they say , ( as its like they must ) that except they meet to pa●take of all the Ordinances of God , they are not a Congregationall Church . Yet truely this is but a knot in a Rush , for 1 Cor. 14 meeting for prophecying onely , is a Church Convention ; and the forbidding of women to teach in the Church , is an ordering of a Congregationall worship ; and the meeting of the Church for baptising of Infants , is in the mind of our brethren the formall meeting of a Congregationall Church , though they should not celebrate the Lords Supper . 2. What Ecclesiasticall meetings can the meeting of Gods people be , in the Synagogues of God , as they are called ▪ Psal. 74. 8 for hearing the Word , and for exercise of Discipline , if not the Church meeting in a Congregation ? I prove the assumption by parts , and first I take it to be undeniable , that they did meet for doctrine , Act. 15. 21. For Moses of old time hath in every City them that preach him , being read in the Synag●g●e every Sabbath day . And Ps. 74. 8 , 9. these two are joyntly complained of , as a great desolation in the Church , the burning of Gods Synagogues in the Land . And v. 8. that there are no Prophets which know how long . And Math. 9. 35. Christ went about all Cities and Villages teaching in their Synagogues . Luke 4 16. He went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath day , and stood up to read , Math. 6. 2. And when the Sabbath day was come , he began to teach in the Synagogue ; and many hearing him were astonished . Luke 6. 6. And it came to passe , another Sabbath day , he entered into the Synagogue and taught . John 18. 20. I ever taught in the Synagogues , and daily in the Temple whither the Jewes alwayes resort . Math. 13. 54. And when he was come into his own● Countrey , he taught them in their Synagogue , in as much as they were astonished . And that there was ruling & government in the Synagogue , is cleare , 1 , by their Rulers of the Synagogue , Act. 13. 15. Act. 18. 17. 8. Luke 13. 14. Marke 5. 22. 35. And if this Ruler had beene any save a Moderator , if he had beene an unlawfull Officer , Christ would not have acknowledged him , nor would Paul , at the desire of the Rulers of the Synagogue have preached , as he doth , Acts 13. 15 , 16. 2. Also , if there was teaching cisputing , concerning the Law in the Synagogue , there behooved to be some ordering of these acts of worship ; for onely approved Prophets were licensed to preach in their Synagogues , to say nothing that there was beating in the Synagogues , and therefore there behoved to be Church discipline . Hence that word of delivering up to the Synagogue . Luke 21. 12. 3. There was the censure of excommunication , and casting out of the Synagogue , and a cutting off from the Congregation . Hence that act of casting out of the Synagogue any who should confesse Jesus . John 12. 42. which they executed on the blind man , John 9. 34. It is true , our brethren deny that there was any excommunication in the Church of the Jewes , and they alledge , that the cutting off from the people of God , was a taking away of the life by the Magistrates Sword ; or , ( as some other say ) Gods immediate hand of judgement upon them . But 1. to be cut off from the congregation , or from the people of God , is never called simply off-cutting , and expounded to be destroying , as it is Genes. 9. 11. but expressed by dying the death : for who will conceive that the Sword of the Magistrate was to cut off the male child that is not circumcised , who is said to be cut off from the people of God , Gen. 17. 14. or to cut off by death the parents ? I grant the phrase signifieth bodily death . Exod. 31. 14. and for this God sought to kill Moses . But Divines say it was excommunication , and never Ruler in Israel executed this sentence : not Moses , nor any Judge that ever we read tooke away the life of an infant for the omission of a ceremony . Nor are we to thinke , that for eating leavened bread in the time of the Passover , the Magistrate was to take away the life , as is said . Levit. 7. 20 , 21. 2. ●his word , to cut off , is expounded , 1 Cor. 5. to put away ; which was not by death , for he willeth them , 2 Cor. 2. to pardon him , and confirme their love to him . 2. Neither could Paul rebuke the Corinthians because Gods hand had not miraculously taken him away , or because the Magistrate had not taken away his life , which was not the Corinthians fault . 3. I am perswaded , to be cast out of the Synagogue , was not to be put to death , because Ioh. 9. the blind man after he is cast out of the Synagogue , Jesus meeteth with him in the Temple , and he believeth and confesseth Christ , and Christ Ioh. 16. distingusheth them cleerely , They shall kill you , and beside that , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . They shall excommunicate you . But though it were granted , t●●t the Jewish Church used not excommunication had they no Ecclesiasticall censures before for that ? I thinke it doth not follow ; for the excluding of the Leper , that these who touched the dead were legally uncleane , and might not eate the Passover , were censures , but they were not civill ; Ergo , Ecclesiasticall they must be , as to be excluded from the Lords Supper is a meer . Ecclesiasticall censure in the Christian Church . Also if Pastors and Preachers be complained of , that not only at Ierusalem , but every where , through all the land , they strengthened not the ●● eased sheep ; They did not bind up the broken , nor bring againe the loosed , but with force and cruclty they did governe , Ezek. 34. 4. and if every where , the Prophets did prophecy falsely , and the Priests bare rule by their meanes , and the people lov●d to have it so . Jer. 5. 31. Then in Synagogues there was Church-government , as at ●erusalem ; for where the Lord rebuketh any sinne , he doth recommend the contrary duty . Now Prophets and Priests are rebuked , tor their ruling with force and rigour every where , and not at Ierusalem onely , for that they were not compassionate to carry the Lambs in their bosome , as Iesus Christ doth , Esai . 40. 11. their ill government every where must be condemned . 3. Luk. 4. 16. Christ , as his custome was , went into the Synagogue on the Sabbath day ; Paul and Barnabas were requested , to exhort in the Synagogue , as the order was , that Prophets at the direction of the Rulers of the Synagogue , if they had any word of exhortation , they should speake , and consequently their order was that every one should not speake ; Ergo , they had customes and orders of Church-Discipline to the which Christ and his Apostles did submit themselves , And to tie all Church-government to the Temple of Ierusalem were to say , God had ordained his people elsewhere to worship him publickly , but without any order , and that Christ and his Apostles subjected themselves to an unjust order .

I further argue thus . Those Churches be of the same nature , frame , and essentiall Constiutions , which agree in the same essentials , and diff●r only in accidents ; but such are the Church of the Iewes , and the Christian Churches ; Ergo , what is the frame and essentiall consti●●tion of the one Church , must be the frame and essentiall constitution of the other . Ergo , &c. the major is of undeniable certainty . I prove the assumption . These which have the same Faith , and the same externall profession of Faith , these have the same frame and essentiall constitution , but they and we be such Churches ; for we have the same covenant of grace , Jer. 31. 31. Jer. 32. 39 40. Heb 8. 8 , 9 10. Therefore that same faith , differing only in accidents : their faith did looke to Christ to be incarnate , and our faith to that same very God now manifested in the flesh . Heb. 13. 8. They were saved by faith , as we are , Heb. 11. Acts 10. 42 , 43. Acts. 11. 16 , 17 , 18. and consequently , what visible profession of faith doth constitute the one visible Church , doth constitute the other . I know , Papists , Arminians , Socinians doe make the Doctrine , and Seales of the Iewish and Christian Church much different , but against the truth of Scripture .

The onely answer that can be made to this , must be , that though the Church of the Jewes wanted not congregations , as our Christian Churches have , yet were they a nationall Church of another essentiall , visible frame , then are the Christian Churches , because they had positive , typicall , and ceremoniall and carnall commandements that they should have one high Priest for the whole nationall Church , the Christian Churches have not for that , one visible Monarch and Pope ; they had an Altar , Sacrifices , and divers pollutions ceremoniall , which made persons uncapable of the Passover ; but we have no such legall uncleannesse , which can make us uncapable of the Seales of the New Testament : and therefore it was not lawfull to separate from the Jewish Church , in which did sit a typicall High Priest , where were Sacrifices , that did adumbrate the Sacrifice of our great High Priest , & c. not withstanding of scandalous persons in that Church ; because there was but one visible Church , out of which was to come the Redeemer Christ , according to the flesh , but the Christian Churches under the New Testament , be of another frame , Christ not being tyed to one Nation , or place , or Congregation : therefore if any one Congregation want the Ordinances of Christ , we may separate therefrom , to another Mount Sion , seeing there bee so many Mount Sions no● .

Answ. 1. If the Church of the Iewes was a visible Church in its essentiall constitution different from our visible Churches , because they were under the Religions tie of so me carnall , ceremoniall , and typicall mandats and Ordinances , that we are not under , then doe I inferre , that the Tribe of Levy was not one visible Church , in the essentiall frame , with the rest of the Tribes , which is absurd , for that Tribe conteyning the Priests and Levites , was under the obligatory tie of many typicall Commandements proper and peculiar to them only , as to offer Sacrifices , to wash themselves , when they were to officiate , to weare linnen Ephods , to beare the Arke of the Covenant , now it was sinne for any that were not of the Sonnes of Aaron , or of another Tribe to performe these duties ; yet , I hope , they made but one nationall Church with the rest of the Tribes . Secondly , I infer , that the Christian Church that now is , cannot be of that same essentiall frame with the Apostolick Churches , because the Apostolick Church , so long as the Jewish ceremonies were indifferent , ( in statu 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) and mortall , but not mortiferae , deadly , was to practice these ceremonies , in the case of scandall , 1 Cor. 10. 31 , 32 , 33. and yet the Christian Church that now is , can in no sort practice these ceremonies : yea , I inferre that the Eldership of a Congregation doth not make one Church of one and the same essentiall frame and constitution with the people , because the Elders be under an obligatory tie to some positive Divine Commandements , such as are to administer the Seales , Baptisme and the Lords Supper , and yet the multitude of Believeres , in that same congregation , are under no such tie ; and certainly if to be under ceremoniall and typicall ordinances doth institute the whole Jewish Church in another essentiall frame different from the Christian Churches , reason would say that then , if the members of one Church be under Divine positive commandements , which doth in no sort tie other members of the same Church , that then there be divers memberships of different essentiall frames in one and the same Church , which to me is monstrous ; for then , because a command is given to Abraham to offer his sonne Isaak to God , and no such command is given to Sarah , in that case Abraham and Sarah shall not bee members of one and the same visible Church . But the truth is , different positive commandments of ceremoniall and typicall ordinances put ●o new essentiall frame of a visible Church upon the Jewish Church , which is not on the Christian Churches . These were onely accidentall characters and temporary cognizances to distinguish the Jewish and Christian Churches , while as both agree in one and the same morall constitution of visible Churches : for first , both had the same faith , one Lord , one covenant , one Iesus Christ , the same seales of the covenant in substance , both were visibly to professe the same Religion ; the differences of externals made not them and us different visible Churches , nor can our brethren say , they made different bodies of Christ , different Spouses , different royall Generations , as concerning Church-frame . Yet are wee not tied to their high Priest , to their Altars , Sacrifices , Holy dayes , Sabbaths , new Moones , &c. no more then any one private Christian in such a congregation , or a beleeving woman is tied to preach and baptize ; and yet her pastor Archippus , in that congregation , is tied both to preach and baptize . Secondly , the Jews were to separate from B thaven , and so are we . Thirdly , they were not to joyne with Idolaters in Idol-worship , neither are we .

2 Whereas it is said that it was not lawfull to separate from the Jewish Church , because in it did sit the typicall high Priest , and the Messiah was to be borne in it , and because they were the onely Church on earth ; but now there be many particular Churches . All this is a deception , a non causi● pro causâ , for separation from that Church was not forbidden for any typicall or ceremoniall reason , not a shadow of reason can be given from the Word of God for this : Because there can be no ceremoniall argument why there should be communion betwixt light and darknesse , or any concord betwixt Christ and Belial , or any comparting bètwixt the beleever and the infidell , or any agreement of the temple of God with idols , nor any reason typicall why Gods people should goe to Gilgal , and to Bethaven , or to be joyned with idols , or why a David should sit with vaine persons , or goe in to dissemblers , or why he should offer the drinke offerings of these who hasten after a strange god , or take up their names in his mouth . This is then an unwritten tradition ; yea , if Dagon had beene brought into the Temple , as the Assy●ian altar of Damascus was set up in the holy place , the people ●ught to have separated from Temple and Sacrifices both , so lo●g as that abomination should stand in the holy place : Nor can it be proved , that communicating with the Church of Israel as a member thereof ; was typicall and necessary to make up visible membership , as ceremoniall holinesse is ; for to adhere to the Church in a sound worship , though the fellow-worshippers be scandalous , is a morall duty commanded in the second Commandment ; as to forsake Church-assemblies is a morall breach of that Commandment , and forbidden to Christians , Hebr. 10. 25. who are under no Law of Ceremonies . And it is an untruth , that those who were legally cleane , and not ceremonially polluted , were members of the Jewish visible Church , though otherwise they were most flagitious : For to God they were no more his visible Israel then Sodome and Gomorrah , Isaiah 1. 10. or the children of Ethiopia , Amos 9. 7. and are condemned of God , as sinning against the profession of their visible incorporation in the Israel of God , Jerem. 7. 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. But shall we name and repute them brethren , whom in conscience we know to be as ignorant and void of grace , as any Pagan ? I answer , That if they professe the truth , though they walke inordinately , yea , and were excommunicated , Paul willeth us to admonish th●m as brethren , 2 Thes. 3. 15. and calleth all the visible Church of Corinth ( for he writeth to good and bad ) amongst whom were many partakers of the table of devils , pleaders with their brethren before heathen , deniers of the resurrection , yea those to whom the Gospell was hidden , 2 Cor. 4. brethren and Saints by calling .

But ( say our brethren ) to be cast out of the Iewish Church , was to be cast out of the Common-wealth ; as to be a member of the Church , and to be a member of the state is all one , because the state of the Jewes and the Church of the Jews was all one ; and none is said to be cut off from the people , but he was put to death .

Answ. Surely Esay 66. vers. 5. these who are cast out by their brethren , and excommunicated , are not put to death , but men , who after they be cast out , live till God comfort them and shame their enemies ; but he shall appeare for your joy . Secondly , that the state of Gods Israel and the Church be all one , because the Jewish policie was ruled by the judiciall Law , and the judiciall Law was no lesse divine then the Ceremoniall Law , is to me a wonder : For I conceive that they doe differ formally , though those same men , who were members of the state , were members also of the Church ; but , as I conceive , not in one and the same formall reason ; first , because I conceive that the State , by order of nature , is before the Church , for when the Church was in a family state , God called Abrahams family , and by calling made it a Church . Secondly , the Kingdome of Israel and the house of Israel in covenant with God , as Zion and Jerusalem are thus differenced , That to be a State was common to the Nation of the Jewes with other Nations , and is but a favour of providence ; but to be a Church is a favour of grace , and implieth the Lords calling and chusing that Nation to be his owne people of his free grace , Deut. 7. 7. and the Lords gracious revealing of his Testimonies to Jacob and Israel , whereas he did not so to every Nation and State , Psal. 147. 19 20. but say they , The very state of the Iewes was divine , and ruled by a divine and supernaturall policie , as the judiciall Law demonstrateth to us . But I answer , Now you speake not of the state of the Jewes , common with them to all States and Nations ; but you speake of such a state and policie which I grant was Divine , but yet different from the Church ; because the Church , as the Church is ruled by the morall Law and the Commandments of both Tables , and also by the Ceremoniall Law ; but the Jewish State or Common wealth , as such was ruled by the judiciall Law onely , which respecteth onely the second Table , and matters of mercy and justice , and not piety and matters of Religion which concerne the first Table ; and this is a vast difference betwixt the state of the Jews and the Church . Thirdly , when Israel rejected Samuel , and would have a King , conforme to other Nations , they sought that the state and forme of governmnent of the Common-wealth should be changed , and affected conformity with the Nations in their state , by introducing a Monarchy , whereas they were ruled by Judges before ; but in so doing they changed not the frame of the Church , nor the worship of God , for they kept the Priesthood , the whole Morall , Ceremoniall , and Judiciall Law entire , and their profession therein ; Ergo , they did nothing which can formally destroy the being of a visible Church , but they did much change the face of the state and civill policie , in that they refused God to reigne over them , and so his care in raising up Judges and Saviours out of any Tribe , and brought the government to a Monarchy , where the Crowne by divine right was annexed to the tribe of Judah . Fourthly , it was possible that the State should remaine entire , if they had a lawfull King sitting upon Davids throne , and were ruled according to the Judiciall Law : but if they should remaine without a Priest and a Law , and follow after Baal , and change and alter Gods worship , as the ten Tribes did , and the Kingdome of Iudah in the end did , they should so marre and hurt the being and integrity of a visible Church , as the Lord should say , She is not my wife , Hosea 2. 2. neither am I her husband ; and yet they might remaine in that case a free Monarchie , and have a State and policy in some better frame ; though I grant , de facto , these two Twins , State and Church , civill Policy and Religion , did die and live , were sicke and diseased , vigorous and healthy together ; yet doth this More , that State and Church are different . And further , if that Nation had made welcome , and with humble obedience beleeved in , and received the Messiah , and reformed all , according as Christ taught them , they should have beene a glorious Church , and the beloved Spouse of Christ ; but their receiving and imbracing the Messiah should not presently have cured their inthralled state , seeing now the Scepter was departed from Iudah , and a stranger and heathen was their King ; nor was it necessary that that Saviour , whose Kingdome is not of this world , John 18. 36. and came to bestow a spirituall redemption , and not to reestablish a flourishing earthly Monarchy , and came to loose the works of the Devill , Heb. 2 : 14. and not to spoile Cesar of an earthly Crowne , should also make the Jews a flourishing State , and a free and vigorous Monarchy againe : Ergo , it is most cleare that State and Church are two divers things , if the one may bee restored , and not the other . Fifthly , the King , as the King was the head of the Common-wealth , and might not meddle with the Priests office , or performe any Ecclesiasticall acts , and therefore was Uzzah smitten of the Lord with leprosie , because he would burne incense , which belonged to the Priests onely . And the Priest in offering sacrifices for his owne sinnes , and the sinnes of the people did represent the Church , not the State . And the things of the Lord ; to wit , Church-matters , and the matters of the King , which were civill matters of State , are clearly distinguished , 2 Chron. 19. 11. which evidenceth to us , that the Church and State in Israel were two incorporations formally distinguished . And I see not , but those who doe confound them , may also say , That the Christian State and the Christian Church be all one State , and that the government of the one must be the government of the other ; which were a confusion of the two Kingdoms . It is true , God hath not prescribed judicials to the Christian State , as he did to the Jewish State , because shadows are now gone , when the body Christ is come ; but Gods determination of what is morally lawfull in civill Laws , is as particular to us as to them ; and the Jewish judicials did no more make the Jewish State the Jewish Church , then it made Aaron to be Moses . and the Priest to be the King and civill Judge : yea , and by as good reason Moses as a Judge should be a prophet , and Aaron as a Prophet should be a Judge ; and Aaron as a Priest might put a malefactor to death , and Moses as a Judge should proph●sie , and as a Prophet should put to death a malefactor ; all which wanteth all reason and sense : and by that same reason the State and Common-wealth of the Jews , as a Common-wealth , should offer sacrifices and prophesie ; and the Church of the Jews , as a Church , should denounce warre and punish malefactors , which are things I cannot conceive .

Our brethren , in their answer to the eleventh question , teach , That those who are sui juris , as masters of families , are to separate To the eleventh question , pag. 32 , 33. Church-government discussed . from these Parish-assemblies , where they must live without any lawfull Ordinance of Christ ; and to remaine there they hold it unlawfull for these reasons : First , we are commanded to observe all whatsoever Christ hath commanded , Matth. 28. 10. Secondly , the Spouse seeketh Christ , and rests not till she finde him in the fullest manner , Cant. 1. 7 , 8. and 3. 1 , 2 , 3. David lamented when hee wanted the full fruition of Gods Ordinances , Psal. 63. and 42. and 84. although he injoyed Abiathar the high Priest , and the Ephod with him , and Gad the Prophet , 1 Sam. 23. 6 , 9. 10. 1 Sam. 22. 8. So did Ezra 8. 15 , 16. yea and Christ , though he had no need of Sacraments , yet for example , would be baptized , keepe the Passeover , &c. Thirdly , no ordinances of Christ may be spared , all are profitable . Fourthly , he is a proud man , and knoweth not his owne heart in any measure , who thinketh he may be well without any Ordinance of Christ . Fifthly say they , it is not enough the people may be without sinne , if they want any ordinances through the fault of the superiours , for that is not their fault who want them , but the superiours sinfull neglect , as appeareeth by the practice of the Apostles , Acts 4. 19. and 5. 29. For if they had neglected Church-ordinances lb. pag. 35 , 36. till the Magistrates , who were enemies to the Gospell , had commanded them , it had beene their grievous sinne . For if superiours neglect to provide bodily food , we doe not thinke that any mans conscience would be so scrupulous , but he would thinke it lawfull by all good meanes to provide in such a case for himselfe , rather then to sit still , and to say , If I perish for hunger , it is the sinne of those who have authority over me , and they must answer for it . Now any ordinance of Christ is as necessary for the good of the soule , as food is necessary for temporall life .

Ans. 1. I see not how all these Arguments , taken from morall commandments , doe not oblige sonne as well as father , servant as master , all are Christs free men , sonne or servant , so as they are to obey what over Christ commandeth , Matth. 18. 10. and with the Spouse to seeke Christ in the fullest measure , and in all his ordinances , and sonne and servant are to know their owne heart , so as they have need of all Christs ordinances ; and are no more to remaine in a congregation where their soules are samished , because fathers and masters neglect to remove to other congregations , where their souls may be fed in the fullest measure ; then the Apostles Acts 4. 29. and 5. 29 were to preach no more in the Name of Iesus , because the Rulers commanded them to preach no more in his Name . And therefore , with reve●ence of our godly brethren , I thinke this distinction of persons free , and sui juris , and of sonnes and servants , not to be allowed in this point .

2. It is one thing to remove from one congregation to another , and another thing to separate from it , as from a false constitute Church , and to renounce all communion therewith , as if it were the Synagogue of Satan and Antichrist , as the Separatists doe , who refuse to heare any Minister ordained by a Prelate : now except these arguments conclude separation in this latter sense , as I thinke they can never come up halfeway to such a conclusion , I see not what they prove , nor doe they answer the question , &c. concerning standing in Parish-assemblies in Old England , and if it be lawfull to continue in them . Which question must be expounded by the foregoing , Quest. 10. If you hold that any of our Parishionall assemblies are true visible Churches , &c. Hence the 11. Question goeth thus in its genuine sense ; are we not then to separate from them , as from false Churches ? Now neither the Spouse , Cant. 1. 7. c. 3. 1. 2 , 3. nor David , Psal. 63. Psal. 42. Psal. 84 nor Ezra . 8. 15 , 16. nor Christ , in these cases when they sought Christ in all his Ordinances in the fullest measure , were members of false Churches : nor did they seeke to Separate from the Church of Israel , nor is it Christs command , Mat. 28. 10. to separate from these Churches , and to renounce all communion with them , because these who sate in Moses Chaire , did neglect many Ordinances of Christ , for when they gave the false meaning of the Law , they stole away the Law , and so a principall ordinance of God , and yet Christ ( I believe ) forbad separation , when he commanded that they should heare them , Mat. 23.

3. Nor doe I judge that because there was but one visible Church , in Israel , and therefore it was not lawfull to separate therefrom , and because under the New Testament there be many visible Churches , and many Mount Sions , therefore this abundance doth make separation from a true Church , lawfull to us , which was unlawfull to the people of the Jewes . For separation lawfull , is , to not partake of other mens sins , not to converse bretherly with knowen flagitious Men , not to touch any uncleane thing , not to have communion with Infidels , Idols , Belial , &c. Now this is a morall duty obliging Iewes and Gentiles , and of perpetuall equity ; and to adhere to , and worship God aright , in a true Church is also a morall branch of the second commande , and a seeking of Christ , and his presence and face in his owne Ordinances , and what was simply morall , and perpetually lawfull , the contrary thereof cannot be made lawfull , by reason of the multitude of Congregations .

4. The most that these arguments of our Brethren doe prove , is but that it is lawfull to goe , and dwell in a Congregation where Christ is worshiped in all his Ordinances , rather then to remaine in that Congregation , where he is not worshipped in all his Ordinances ; and where the Church censures are neglected , which to us is no separation from the visible Church , but a removall from one part of the visible Church to another , as he separateth not out of the house , who removeth from the Gallery , to remaine and lie and eate in the Chamber of the same House , because the Gallery is cold and smoaky , and the Chamber not so , for he hath not made a vow never to set his foote in the Gallery . But to our Brethren to separate or remove from a Congregation , is to be dismembred from the only visible Church on Earth , for to them there is not any visible Church on Earth , except a congregation . And our Brethrens mind in al these arguments , is to prove , that not only it is unlawfull to stand in the Parish assemblies of Old England , because of Popish ceremonies ( and we teach separation from these ceremonies to be lawfull , but not from the Churches ) but also that it is necessary , to adjoyne to independent Congregations , as to the onely true visible Churches on Earth , and to none others , except we would sinne against the second Commandement , which I conceive is proved by not one of these arguments . And to them all I answer , by a deniall of the connex proposition . As this , These who must doe all which Christ commandeth , and seek Christ in all his necessary Ordinances , though superiors will not doe their duties , these must separate from true visible Churches , where all Christs Ordinances are not , and joyne to independent Congregations , as to the only true visible Churches on Earth . This proposition I deny . 5. If our Brethrens argument hold sure that we are to separate from a Church , in which we want some Ordinances of Christ , through the Officers negligence , because ( say they a a Church government discussed , answer to quest. 11. pag. 33. ) The Spouse of Christ will not rest , seeking Her beloved untill she finde him , in the fullest manner , Cant. 1. v. 7. & 3. 1 , 2. then the Spouse Cant. 1. 7. & 3. 1 , 2. is separating from one Church to another , which the Text will not beare . 2. I would have our reverend Brethren to see and consider , if this argument doth not prove ( if it be nervose and concludent ) that one is to separate from a Congregation , where are all the Ordinances of Christ , as in New England now they are , so being , hee goe from a lesse powerfull and lesse spirituall Ministery , to another Congregation , where incomparably there is a more powerfull and more spirituall Ministery , for in so doing the separater should onely not rest as the Spouse doth , Cant. 1. & 3. seeking his beloved untill he find Him , in the fullest manner . For he is to be found in a fuller manner , under a more powerfull Ministery , and in a lesse full manner under a lesse powerfull Ministery . But this separation I thinke our Brethren would not allow , being contrary to our Brethrens Church-Oath which tieth the professor to that congregation , whereof he is a sworne member to remaine there . 6. The designe and scope of our reverent Brethrens argument , is that professors ought to separat from Churches where presbyteriall government is , because in these Churches , Professors , as they conceive , doe not injoy all the Ordinances of God . Because they injoy not the society of a Church consisting of onely visible Saints , and they injoy not the free use of the censure of excommunication in such a manner as in their owne Churches , and because in them the Seales are often administred by those Pastors who are Pastors of another Congregation then their owne , and for other causes also , which we thinke is not sound doctrine .

But we thinke it no small prejudice ( say our Brethren ) to the liberty given to a congregation , in these words , Mat. 18. Tell the Church , if he heare not the Church , &c. That the power of excommunication should be taken from them , and given to a Presbyterian , or nationall Church , and so your Churches wante some ordinances of Christ .

Answ. Farre be it from us , to take from the Churches of Christ any power which Christ hath given to them , for we teach that Christ hath given to a single congregation , Mat. 18. a power of excommunication , but how ? 1. He hath given to a congregation that s alone in an Iland separated from all other visible Churches a power which they may exercise there alone , and. 2. He hath given that power to a congregation When Christ layeth 〈◊〉 a warrant for the power of binding and looseing given to all Churches , his wisdome hath fitted the rule , so that it agree to al churches , to a congregation that s alone in a remote Iland , to a Church presbyteriall , or nationall , as Parker doth apply it to prove the power of Synods . consociated with other sister congregations , which they may use but not independently , to the prejudice of the power that Christ hath given to other Churches , for seeing all sister Churches are in danger to be infected with the leaven of a contu●acious member , no lesse then that single congreation , wherof the contumacious resideth as a member , Christs wisdome , who careth for the whole , no lesse then for the part , cannot have denied a power conjunct with that congregation to save themselves from contag●ons , to all the consociated Churches , for if they be under the same danger of contagion with the one single congregation , they must be armed and furnished , by Christ Iesus , with the same power against the same ill : so the power of excommunication is given to the congregation , but not to the congregation alone , but to all the congregations adjacent , so when I say , the God of Nature hath given to the hands a power to defend the body , I say true , and if evill doe invade the body , nature doth tell it , and warne the hands to defend the body , but it followeth not from this , &c. if the power of defending the body be given by the God of Nature , to the hands therefore that same power of defence is not given to the feete also , to the eye to foresee the ill , to reason , to the will to command that locomotive power , that is in all the members , to defend the body , and if nature give to the Feete a power to defend the body , by fleeing , it is not consequence to infer , O then hath nature denied that power to the hands by fighting , so when Christ giveth to the congregation ( which in consociated Churches to us is but a part , a member , a fellowsister of many consociated congregations ) he giveth also that same power of excommunicating one common enemy , to all the consociated Churches , without any prejudice to the power given to that congregation whereof he is a member , who is to be excommunicated , because a power is commmon to many members , it is not taken away from any one member . When a Nationall Church doth excommunicate a man who hath killed his Father , and is , in an eminent manner , a publick stumbling ●lock to all the congregations of a whole Nation , it is presum●d that the single congregation , whereof this parricide is a member , doth also joyne with the nationall Church and put in exercise its owne power of excommunication , with the nationall Church , and therefore that congregation is not spoyled of its power , by the nationall Church , which joyneth with the nationall Church in the use of that power . And this I thinke may be thus demonstrated , The power of excomunication is given by Christ , to a congregation not upon a positive ground , because it is a visible instituted Church , or as it is a congregation , but this power is given to it upon this formall ground and reason , because a congregation is a number of sinfull men , who may be scandalized and infected with the company of a scandalous person ; this is so cleare that if a congregation were a company of Angels , which cannot be infected , no such power should be given to them , even as there was no neede that Christ as a member of the Church either of Iewes , or Christians should have a morall power of avoyding the company of Publicans and sinners , because he might possibly convert them , but they could no wayes pervert , or infect him , with their scandalous and wicked conversation , therefore is this power given to a congregation , as they are men , who though frailty of nature , may be If a little body of a congregation , in a remote Isle , have power from Christ , to cut off a rotten member , l●st it infect the whole body ; shall we doubt but our wise lawgiver hath given that same power to a greater body of many visible congregations , which is under the danger of the same con●agious infection ? leavened with the bad conversation of the scandalous , who are to be excommunicated , as is cleare , 1 Cor. 5. 6. Your glorying is not good , know yee not that a little leaven leavneth the whole lumpe ? therefore are we to withdraw our selves from Drunkards , Fornicators , Extortioners , Idolaters , and are not to eate and drinke with them , v. 10. And from these who walke inordinately , and are disobedient , 1 Thess. 3. 12 , 13 , 14. And from Hereticks after they be admonished , lest we be infected with their company , just as nature hath given hands to a man , to desend himselfe from injuries and violence , and hornes to oxen to hold off violence , so hath Christ given the power of excommunication to his Church , as spirituall armour to ward off , and defend the contagion of wicked fellowship . Now this reduplication of fraile men which may be leavened , agreeth to all men of many consociated congregations , who are in danger to be infected with the scandalous behavior of one member of a single congregation , and agreeth not to a congregation as such , therefore this power of excommunication must be given to many confociated congregations , for the Lord Iesus his salve , must be as large , as the wound , and his mean must be proportioned to his end . 2. The power of Church ●jection and Church separation of scandalous persons must be given to those to whom the power of Church communion , and Church confirming of Christian love to a penitent excommunicate is given , for contraries are in the same subject , as hot and cold , seeing and blindnesse , but the power of Church-communio at the same Lords table , and of mutuall rebuking and exhorting , and receiving to grace after repentance , agreeth to members of many consociated Churches , as is cleare , Col. 3. 16. Heb. 10. 23. 2 Cor. 2 6 , 7 , and not to one congregation only ; Ergo , &c. the assumption is cleare , for except we deny communion of Churches , in all Gods Ordinances , we must grant the truth of it .

2. We say that of our Saviours ( tell the Church ) is not to be drawen to such a narrow circle , as to a Parishionall Church only , the Apostle practice is against this , for when Paul and Bannabas had no small dissention with the Iewes of a particular Church , they determined that Paul and Barnabas , and certaine others of them , should goe and tell the Apostles , Elders and whole Church Nationall or Oecumemek , Acts 15. 2. v. 22. and complaine of those who taught that , they behoved to be circumcised , Acts 15. 1. and that greater Church v. 22. 23. commanded by their ecclesiastick authority the contrary , and those who may lay on burdens of commandements as this greather Church doth expresly , v. 28. Acts 16. v. 4. ch. 2. v. 25. they may censure and excommunicate the disobeyers . And Acts 6. 1. the Greek Church complained , Acts 6. of the Hebrewes , to a greater and superior Church of Apostles , and a multitude made up of both these v. 2. and 5. and they redresed the wrongs done to the Grecian Widdowes by appointing Deacons ; also though there was no complaint , Acts 1. Yet was there a defect in the Church , by the death of Judas , and a catholike visible Church did meete , and helpe the defect , by chosing Mathias : it is true the ordination of Matthias the Apostle , was extraordinary , as is cleare by Gods immediate directing of the lots , yet this was ordinary and perpetuall , that the election of Mathias was by the common suff●ages of the whole Church , Acts 1. 26. and if we suppose that the Church had been ignorant of that defect , any one member knowing the defect , was to tell that catholick Church , whom it concerned to choose a catholick Officer ; we thinke Antioch had power great enough intensively to determine the controversie , Acts 15. but it followeth not that the catholick Church v. 22. ( let me terme it so ) had not more power extensively to determine that same controversie , in behalfe of both Antioch , and of all the particular Churches : subordinate powers are not contrary powers .

CHAP. 5. SECT. 5. PROP. 3. QUEST. 6.

Manuscript .

ALL who would be saved must be added to the Church , as Acts 2. 47. The way of the Church of Christ in . N. Eng. If God offer opportunity , Gen. 17. 7. Because every Christian standeth in need of all the Ordinances of Christ , for his Spirituall edification in holy fellowship with Christ Jesus . Answer : for clearing of this we are to discusse this question . Whether all , and every true believer must joyne himselfe to a particular visible congregation , which hath independently power of the keys within it selfe , God offering opportunity , if he would be saved ?

1 Dist. There is a necessity of joyning our selves to a visible Church , but it is not necessitas medii , but necessitas praecepti , it is not such a necessity , as all are damned who are not within some visible Church , for Augustine is approved in this , there be many Wolves within the Church , and many sheepe without ; but if God offer opportunity , all are obl●ged by God his Command●ment of confessing Christ before men , to joyne themselves to the true visible Church .

2. Dist. There is a f●llowship with the visible Church internall , of hidden believers , in the Romish Babel this is sufficient for salvation , necessitate medii , but though they want opportunity to joyne themselves to the Reformed visible Churches , yet doe they sin in the want of a profession of the truth and in not witnessing against the Antichrist , which is answerable to an adjoyning of themselves to a visible Church , And so those who doe not professe the Faith of the true visible Church , God offering opportunity , deny Christ before men , and this externall fellowship is necessary to all , necessitate praecepti , though our Lord graciously pardon this as an infirmity in his own , who for feare of cruell persecution , often dare 〈◊〉 confesse Christ .

3. Dist. The question is not whether all ought to joyne themselves 〈…〉 ●isible Church , God offering occasion , but , if all ought by Christs command , to joyne themselves to the Churches independent of their visible Congregations , if they would be saved ? our Brethren 〈…〉 it , we deny it .

1. Concl. An adjoyning to a visible Church either formally to be a member thereof , or materially , confessing the Faith of the true visible Church , God offering occasion , is necessary to all . 1. Because we are to be ready to give a confession of the ●●pe that is in us , to every one who asketh , 1 Pet. 3. 15. 2 Because he who denieth Christ before men , him also will Christ deny before 〈◊〉 Father , and before the holy Angells , Mat. 10. 33. 3 Yet if some die without the Church , having Faith in Christ , and want opportunity to confesse him before men , as repenting in the h●u●e of death , their salvation is sure , and they are within the invisible Church : so is that to be taken , extra Ecclesiam nulla salus , none can be saved who are every way without the Church , both visible and invisible ; as all perished who were not in Ncahs Arke .

2. Concl. When God offereth opportunity , all are obliged to joyne themselves to a true visible Church . 1. Because God hath promised his presence to the Churches as his Sonne walketh in the midst of the golden candlesticks , Rev. 2. 2. 2 Because Faith commeth by hearing a sent Preacher , Rom. 10. 4. 3 Separation from the true visible Church is condemned , Heb. 10. 24. Iud. v. 19. 1 Iohn . 2. 19. 4. Good men esteeme it a rich favour of God to lay hold on the skirt of a Jew , Zech. 8. 23. and to have any communion , even as a doore keeper in Gods House , and have desired it exceedingly and complained of the want thereof , Psal. 84. 10. v. 1 , 2. Psal. 27. 4 , Psal. 42. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. Psal. 63. v. 1 , 2.

3. Concl. Our brethren , with reverence of their godlinesse and learning , erre , who hold all to be obliged , as they would be saved , to joyne to such a visible congregation of independent jurisdiction , as they conceive to be the only true Church visible instituted by Christ . That this is their mind is cleare by the first proposition of this Manuscript , and by their answer a a The 12. question propounded by the godly and learned Brethren of old England . to the 12 Question where they say , that all not within their visible congregation as fixed sworne members thereof , are without the true Church , in the Apostles meaning , 1 Cor. 5. 12. what have I to doe to judge them also that are without ? doe not yee judge them that are within ? which is a most violent torturing of the word . For , 1. without are dogs , Rev. 22. so our brethren expound the one place by the other , then all not fixed members of the congregationall Church ( as they conceive it ) of Corinth , are dogs , what ? was there not a Church of Saints on earth at this time , but in one independent congregation of Corinth ? and were all the rest Dogs and Sorcerers ? 2. If judgeing here especially is the censure of Excommunication used according unto Christs institution , that the spirit may be saved in the Day of the Lord , and so to be used only toward regenerated persons , then Paul was to intend the salvation of none by Excommunication , but these who are members of one single congregation , who are within this visible house of Christ , then all the rest are without the house and so in the state of damnation . 3. These who are without here are in a worse case , then if they were judged by the Church , that their spirit may be saved . So they are left , v. 13. to a severe judgement , even to the immediate judgement of God , as a a Cajetan . coment . ib. Cajetan doth well observe ; for , sayth b b Eras. Sarcer . in loc. Erasmus Sarcerius , Deus publica & occulta sceler a non sinet impunita , and c c Bullinger oomment . Bullinger maketh ( as it is cleare ) an answer to an objection , shall these who are without , even the wicked Gentiles commit all wickednesse without punishment ? The Apostle answereth , that , ( saith he ) God shall judge them , Non impune in vitiorum lacunis se provolvent prophani , sed destinato tempore commeritas dabunt Deo ultori paenas . And d d Paraeus v. 13. Paraeus , num impune ibunt eorum scelera ? ●mo Judicem Deum invenient . 4. These who are within here , are these who are of Christs family , sayth e e P. Martyr . ib. P. Martyr , and opposite to Gentiles and infidels saith f f Paraeus in ●s . 12. Paraeus , for all men are divided into two ranks , some domesticks , and within the Church , and to be judged by the Church ; and some strangers , without the covenant , not in Christ , neither in profession , nor truth , as Gentiles , who are left to the severity of Gods judgement , but our Brethrens Text shall beare that Paul divideth mankind into three ranke . 1. Some within , as true members of the Church . 2. Some without as infidels , and some without as not members of a fixed congregation , now Believers without , and not members of a fixed congregation , are not left to the severity of the immediate judgment of God , as these who are without here , because they are to be rebuked , yea nor was the excommunicated man , after he should be cast out , left to the immediate judgement of God : but he was , 1. To remaine under the medicine of excommunication , and dayly to be judged , and eschewed as a Heathen , that his spirit may be saved . 2. He was to be rebuked as a brother 2 T●ess . 3. 15. 3. Paul saying what have I to doe to judge these that are without , God judgeth them , he meaneth as much , as he will not acknowledge them , as any wayes belonging to Christ ; but the believers of approved piety , because they are not members of a fixed congregation , are not thus cast off of Paul , he became all things to all men , that he might gaine some , and would never cast off Believers , and say what have I to doe with you ? In a word ; by those who are without are meant Gentiles , as a a Ambrosus . Ambrose b b Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius c c Theophylact. Theophilact . &c. d d Calvin . Calvin e e Pet. Martyr . comment . Martyr f f Bullinger . Bullinger g g Pareus Paraeus h h Beza . Beza , i i Pelican . Pelican . k k Pomeran cō . Pomeranus l l Meyer . Meyer m m Sarcerius com . Sarcerius n n Marloratus . Marloratus o o Paraphraste● . Paraphras . p p Haymo com . the Papists , Haymo q q Aquinas . Aquinas and r r Eras●●● Paraph. with them Erasmus , and all who ever commented on this place . Lastly , our Brethren expound these , who are within , to be the Church of Corinth , Saints by calling , and Saints in Christ Jesus , these to whom he prayeth grace and peace unto , and for whom he thanketh God for the grace given to them by Iesus Christ , 1 Cor. 1. 2. 3. Now these thus within must be regenerated , and opposed to all not within : this way , but without , that is who are not Saints by calling , not in Christ Iesus , then by these who are without , cannot be understood , all not fixed members of one visible Congregation , who yet are by true faith in Christ Iesus ; and our Brethren must mean , that Paul , if he were living , would take no care to judge , and censure us , who believe in Christ , and are members of provinciall and nationall Churches , and are not members of such an independent Congregation , as they conceive to be the only instituted visible Church of the New Testament .

But if they all not without the state of salvation who are not members of such an independent flock . 1. All the Churches of Corinth , Galatia , Ephesus , Th●ssalonica , Philippi , Rome , the seven Churches of Asia , who were not such independent Churches must be in the state of damnation . 2. All are here obliged , who looke for salvation , by Iesus Christ , to joyne themselves to this visible independent Church ; then all who are not members of such a Church are in the state of damnation , if ( say our brethren ) they know this to be the only true Church , and joyne not to it . O but ignorance cannot save men from damnation , for all are obliged to know this so necessary a meane of salvation , where only are the meane● of salvation , for then it should excuse Scribes and Pharisees , that they believed not in Christ , for they knew him not , and if they had knowen , they would not have crucisied the Lord of glory . 1 Cor. 2. 9 , 10. Now we judge this to be the revived error of-the Donatists , whose mind was as a a Augustine saith , haeres . 69. Eccl. siam Christi de ●oto te●rarum or●e 〈◊〉 , ●que●s Africa Dona●i parte remansyle . Augustine saith , that the Church of Christ was only in that part of Africa , where Donatus was , and Augustine writing to Vincentius b b Augustin . Epist. 48 ad Uincent in illa verba , indica , ubi pascis in meridie Viden. solam & solam illi in Meridie , vos in occidents ? saith Morton apolog p. 1. c. 31. answereth Bellarmine de Ecclesia mil●● l. 3. c. 13. objecteth the same , as Morton answereth Bellarmine , and the same say Papists with Donatists , that out of the Church of Rome there is no salvation . And c c Field of the Church 3. book . 28. ch. Field answereth well , yee are to be charged with donatisme , who deny all Christian societies in the World , ●to be where the Popes feete are not kissed , to pertaine to the true Church of God , and so cast into Hell all the Churches of Aethiopia , Armenia , Syri● , Graecia , Russia , and so did Optatus ( sayth d d Morton grand imposture ch . 14. 2. challeng p. 342. Morton , Answer , Donatists you will have the Church only to be where you art , but in Dacia , Misi● , Thracia , Achaia , &c. where you are not , you will not have it to be , nor will you have it to be in Graecia , Cappadocia , Aegypt , &c. Where you are not , and in innumerable Istes and Provinces . See how Gerardus refuteth this e e Gerard. to . 5. de Ecclesia c. 4. p. 231. 232. nu. 35. and certainly , if this be the only true visible Christian Church , to which all who looke for salvation by Christ Jesus , must joyne themselves , there is not in the Christian World , a true visible Church but with you . 3. I● all upon hazard of losing salvation , must joyne to such a Church , having power of jurisdiction independently within it selfe , then must all separate from all the reformed Churches , where there be provinciall and nationall Churches , now this is also the error of the Donatists and Anabaptists , against which read what a a Pa●k●r ●n the Crosse parag . 2. c. 9. p. 113. d● c. 14. learned Parker saith and reverend b b Brightman in Apocal. 3. Brightman , and c c Cartwright repl. . 1. p. 175. Cartwright , but of this hereafter . 4. The principall reason given by the Author , is , The Lord added to the Church Acts 2. such as should be saved , this is not in the independent visible Congregation , as is proved elsewhere . A second reason he giveth , because every Christian standeth in neede of the Ordinances of Christ , for his spirituall edification , in holy fellowship , with Christ Iesus , or else Christ ordained them in vaine , therefore all who would be saved , must joyne to a visible independent congregation ; hence no Church hath title and due right to the Word and Sacraments , but members of such a congregation : this is the reason why men of approved piety are denied the Seales of the covenant , and their children excluded from Baptisme and themselves debarred from the Lords Supper , because they are not members of your congregation , and members they cannot be , because they finde no warrant from Gods Word , to sweare your Church-covenant , and to your Church-government , which is so farre against the Word of God : the Seales of the covenant belong to all professing Believers , as Gods Word sayth , Acts 10. 47. Acts 8. 37. Acts 16. 31 , 32 , 33. 1 Cor. 11. 28. Whether Non distinguendum , ubi lex , ubi legislator non distinguit . he be a member of a particular independent Church , or not , God the Lawgiver maketh not this exception , neither should man doe it .

Propos. 3. All are entered by covenant into a Church-state , Manuscript ch. 1. sect. 3. or into a membership of a visible Church .

Answ. Here are we to encounter with a matter much pressed by our reverend Brethren , called a Church covenant . A Treatise came unto my hand in a Manuscript of this Subject ; In their Apology , and in their answer to the questions propounded by the Brethren of Old England this is much pressed . I will first explaine the Church-covenant according to our reverend Brethrens minde . 2 : Prove there is no such thing in Gods Word . 3. Answer their Arguments taken out of the Old Testament . 4. Answer their Arguments from the New Testament , both in this Treatise here in this Chapter , and hereafter ; and also their arguments in all their Treatises . Hence for the first two , I begin with this first question .

Whether or not all are to he In-churched or entered Members of a visible Church by an explicit , and vocall or prof●ssed Covenant ?

Our brethrens mind is first to be cleared . 2. The state of the question to be explained . 3. The truth to be confirmed . In the answers to the questions a a Quest. 8. sent to New England they require of all persons come to age , before they be received members of the Church :

1. A publiqu● vocall declaration of the manner and soundnesse of their conversion , and that either in continued speech ( saith b b Apology of the Churches of New England , c. 3. the Apologie ) or in answer to questions propounded by the Elders .

2. They require a publick prof●ssion of their faith , concerning the articles of their religion , the foresaid way also .

3. An expresse vocall covenanting by oath , to walke in that faith ; and to submit ( saith the Authour ) c c The way of the Church of Christ in New England , ch. 1. sect. 1. prop. 3. themselves to God , and one to another , in his feare ; and to walke in a professed subjection to all his holy Ordinances , cleaving one to another , as fellow members of the same body in brotherly love and holy watchfulnesse unto mutuall edification in Christ Iesus .

4. And a covenanting , not to depart from the said Church , without the consent thereof .

This Church-covenant ( saith the Apologie ) d d Apology for the Church of N. E. ch. 3. is the essentiall or formall cause of a visible Church , as a flocke of Saints is the materiall cause , and so necessarily of the being of a Church , that without it none can claim Church-communion ; and therefore it is that whereby a Church is constituted in its integrity , that whereby a fallen Church is againe restored ; and that , which being taken away , the Church is dissolved , and ceaseth to be a Church ; and it is that whereby Ministers have power over the people , and people interest in their Ministers , and one member hath interest and powerover another fellow-member .

The manner of entring in Church-state is this :

1. A number of Christians , with a gifted or experienced Elder meet often together ( saith this e e Way of the Church , chap. 1. sect. 2. Authour ) about the things of God , and performe some duties of prayer , and spirituall conference together , till a sufficient company of them be well satisfied , in the spirituall good estate one of another , and so have approved themselves to one anothers consciences , in the sight of God , as living stones , fit to be said on the Lords spirituall Temple .

2. They having acquainted the Christian Magistrate , and neerest adjoyning Churches , of their purpose of entring into Church-fellowship convene in a day kept with fasting and praying , and preaching , one b●ing chosen with common consent of the whole , in name of the rest , standeth up , and propoundeth the covenant , in the foresaid four Articles above named .

3. All the rest declare their joynt consent in this covenant , either by silence , or word of mouth , or writing ,

4. The brethren of other Churches , some specials , in name of the rest , reach out to them the right hand of fellowship , exhorting them to stand stedfast in the Lord . Which done , prayers made to God for pardon and acceptance of the people , a Psalm is sung .

But when a Church is to be gathered together of Infidels , they must be first converted believers , and so fit materials for Church fellowship , before any of those things can be done by them .

5. Baptisme maketh none members of the visible Church .

6. A Church fallen , cannot be accepted of God to Church fellowship , till they renew their Church covenant . Thus shortly for their mind about the gathering of a visible Church . Let these distinctions be considered for the right stating of the question .

1. Distinct. There is a covenant of free grace , betwixt God and sinners , founded upon the surety Christ Iesus ; laid hold on by us , when we believe in Christ , but a Church Covenant differenced from this is in question , & sub judice lis est .

2. Distinct. There is a covenant of baptisme , made by all , and a covenant vertuall and implicite renewed , when we are to receive the Lords Supper , but an explicite positive professed Church covenant , by oa●h in-churching a person , or a society , to a State-church is now questioned .

3. Distinct. An explicite vocall Covenant whereby we bind our selves to the first three Articles in a tacite way , by entring in a new relation to such a Pastor , and to such a Flocke , we deny not , as if the thing were unlawfull ▪ for we may sweare to performe Gods commandements , observing all things requisite in a lawfull oath . 2. But that such a covenant is required by divine institution , as the essentiall forme of a Church and Church-membership , as though without this none were entered members of the visible Churches of the Apostles , nor can now be entered in Church-state , nor can have right unto the seales of the covenant , we utterly deny .

4. Distinct. We grant a covenant in Baptisme which is the seale of our entry unto the visible Church . 2. That it is requisit that such Heretickes , Papists , Infidels , as be received as members of our visible Church , ( from which Papists have fallen , having received baptisme from us ) doe openly professe subjection to God , and his Church , in all the Ordinances of God . And that Infidels give a confession of their faith , before they be baptized . 3. Nor deny we that at the election of a Pastor , the Pastor and people tie themselves , by reciprocation of oathes , to each other , the one to fulfill faithfully the ministery that he hath received of the Lord ; the other to submit to his ministery in the Lord , but these reciprocall oathes , make neither of them members of a visible Church , for they were that before these oathes were taken .

5. Distinct. Any professor removing from one congregation to another , and so comming under a new relation to such a Church , or such a Ministery , is in a tacite and vertuall covenant to discharge himselfe in all the duties of a member of that Congregation , but this is nothing for a Church-covenant ; for when six are converted in the congregation whereof I am a member , or an excommunicated person heartily and unfainely repenteth , there ariseth a new relation betwixt those converts and the Church of God ; and a tie and obligation of duties to those persons greater then was before , as being now members of one mysticall and invisible body . Yet cur brethren cannot say , there is requisite , that the Church renew their Church-covenant towards such , seeing the use of the Covenant renewed is to restore a fallen Church , or to make a non-Church to be a Church ; and if those six be converted by my knowledge , there resulteth thence an obligation of a vertuall and tacite covenant betwixt them and me ; but there is no need of an explicite and vocall covenant , to tie us to duties that we are now obliged to in a stricter manner then we were before ; for when one is taken to be a steward in a great family , there may be a sort of Covenant betwixt that servant and the Lord of the house , and there resulteth from his office and charge a tie and obligation , not onely to the head of the family , but also to the children and fellow-servants of the house ; but there is no need of an expresse , vocall , and professed covenant betwixt the new steward and the children and servants ; yea and strangers also , to whom he owes some acts of steward-duties , though there doe result a vertuall covenant . Farre lesse is there a necessity of an expresse and vocall covenant before that steward can have claime to the keyes , or be received in office . So when one entereth into covenant with God , and by faith layeth hold on the covenant , there resulteth from that act of taking the Lord to be his God , a covenant-obligation to doe duty to all men , as the covenant of God doth oblige him ; yea , and to doe workes of mercy to his beast ( for a good man will have mercy on the life of his beast ) and he is obliged to a duty by that covenant with God to his children , which are not yet borne , to servants who are not yet his servants , but shall hereafter be his servants , to these who are not yet converted to Christ , now it is true a vertuall and tacite covenant , resulteth toward all these , even toward the beast , the children not yet borne , &c. when the person first by faith entereth in covenant with God ; but none , master of common sense and judgement will say there is required a vocall and explicite , and professed covenant , betwixt such an one entered in covenant with God , and his beast , and his children not yet borne , or that the foresaid tacite and vertuall covenant , which doth but result from the man his covenanting with God is either the cause , or essence , or formall reason , whereby he is made a formall contracter and covenanter with God . So , though when I enter a member of such a congregation , there ariseth thence an obligation of duty , or a tacite covenant , tying me in duties to all members present , or which shall be members of that congregation , though they should come from India ; yet in reason it cannot be said , that there is required an expresse vocall covenant betwixt me and all , who shall be fellow-members of this congregation ; and farre lesse that such a covenant doth make me a member of that congregation , yea because I am already a member of that congregation ; thence ariseth a tacite covenant toward such and such duties and persons .

6. I understand not how our brethren doe keepe Christian and religious communion , with many professours of approved piety , and that in private conference , praying together , and publiquely praising together , and yet deny to have any Church-communion with such approved professors , in partaking with them the seales of the covenant , and censures of the Church , I doubt how they can comfort the feeble minded , and not also warne and rebuke them , which are called acts of Church-c●nsure .

Then the question is not , if there be a tacit and vertuall covenant when persons become members of such a visible congregation . 2. Nor doe we question whether such a Church-covenant may be lawfully sworne . We thinke it may , though to sweare the last article not to remove from such a congregation without their consent , I thinke not lawfull , nor is my habitation in such a place a matter of Church-discipline . 3. But the The state of the question concerning the Church covenant . question is , if such a Church-covenant , by Divine or Apostolick warrant , not onely be lawfull , but the necessary and Apostolick meane , yea and the essentiall forme of a visible Church ; so as without it persons are not members of one visible Church , and want all right and title to a Church-membership , to the seales of grace , and censures of the Church . Our brethren affirme , we deny .

Concl. The former considerations being cleare , we hold that such a Church-covenant is a conceit destitute of all authority of Gods Word , Old or New Testament , and therefore to be rejected as a way of mens devising ,

1. Argum. All will-worship laying a band on the Conscience , where God hath layed none , is damnable ; but to tye the oath of God to one particular duty rather then another , so as you cannot , without such an oath , enter into such a state , nor have title and right to the seales of grace and Gods Ordinances , is will-worship , and that by vertue of a divine Law , and is a binding of the Conscience where God hath not bound it .

The major is undeniable . Papists as a a Alphonsus à Castr. tit . vota . Alphonsus à Castro , and b b Bellarm. de eccles. milit. lib. 4. cap. 9. ●andem heresin . Lampetianorum Lutherus tenet . Bellarmin● lay upon us , that which was the errour of Lampetians , that we condemne all sorte of vowe● , ●● snares to the Consciences of men . But Bellarmine c c Bellarm , de Monarch . l. 2. c. 15. saith , that Luther and Ca●●in acknowledge , We thinke vowes of things commanded of God lawfull ; the truth is , we teach it to be will-worship to a person to vow single life , where God hath not given the gift of continency , because men binde with an oath that which God hath not bound us unto by a command . So d d Origen . Nazianzen . Ambrose . Augustinus exponit i●lud , Matth. 19. 11. Origen , Gregory , Nazianzen , Ambrose , Augustine say , Those which want the gift of continency cannot live without wives , and so should not burne . See how e e Bellarm. de Monach , lib. 2. cap. 31. Bellarmine and f f Maldonat . in Math. 19. Maldonat contending for will-worship , prescribe the contrary . I prove the assumption ; for a Minister to sweare the oath of fidelity to his flocke , is lawfull ; but to tye an oath so to his Ministery , as to say the Apostles teach , he cannot be a minister who sweareth not that oath , is to lay a bond on the Conscience , where God hath laid none . That a father swear to performe the duties of a father , a master the duties of a master towards his servant , is lawfull ; but to lay a bond on him , that he is in Conscience , and before God no father , no master , except he sweare to performe those duties , is to lay a bond on the Conscience where God hath laid none . So to sweare subjection to such a Ministery and visible Church , is lawfull ; but to tie by an Apostolike Law and practice the oath of God so to such duties , as to make this Church-oath the essentiall forme of such membership , so as you cannot enter into Church-state , nor have right to the Seales of the Covenant without such an oath , is to binde where God hath not bound ; for there is no Law of God , putting upon any Church-oath such a state , as that it is the essentiall forme of Church-membership , without the which a man is no Church-member , and the Church visible , not swearing this oath is no Church .

3 That way are members to be in-Churched , and to enter into a Church-fellowship , which way members were entred in the Apostolike Church . But members were not entred into the Apostolike Church by such a Covenant , but onely they beleeved , professed beleefe , and were baptized ; when the incestuous person is re-entred ( it is said ) onely , 2 Cor. 2. he was grieved , and testified it , and they did forgive him , and confirme their love to him , 7 , 8. there is here no Church-Covenant ; and Samaria 8. 12. received the Word gladly , beleeved , and was baptized ; when Saul is converted Acts 9. Simon Magus baptised , Acts 8. Cornelius and his house baptized , Acts 20. the Church of Ephe●us planted , Acts 19. of Corinth , Acts 18. 8. of Berea , Acts 17. 10. Philippi Acts 16. Th●ssalonica , Acts 17. of Rom , Acts 28. We heare no expressed vocall Covenant . So Acts 2. three thousand were added to the visible Church ; now they were not gathered nor in-Churched as you gather : First , they did not meet often together for prayer and spirituall conference , while they were satisfied in Conscience of the good estate one of another , and approved to one anothers Consciences in the sight of God , as living stones fit to be laid in the Lords spirituall Temple , as you require ; a a The way of the Churches , Chap. Sect. 2. because frequent meeting and satisfaction in Conscience of the regeneration one of another could not be performed by three thousand , all converted and added to the Church in one day ; for before they were non-Converts , and at one Sermon were pricked in heart that they had slaine the Lord of glory , Acts 2. 37. 42. and the same day there were added to them three thousand souls . Our brethren say , It was about the P●ntecost , when the day was now the longest , and so they might make short confessions of the soundnesse of their conversation before the Apostles , who had such discerning spirits .

Answ. Truly it is a most weake and reasonlesse conjecture for all the three thousand behoved to be miraculonsly quicke of discerning ; for they could not sweare mutually one to another those Church-duties , except they had beene satisfied in Conscience of the regeneration of one another . Surely such a miracle of three thousand extraordinarily gifted with the spirit of discerning would not have beene concealed , though it be sure , Ananias and Saphira , who deceived the Apostles , were in this number .

Secondly , how could they all celebrate a day of fasting and prayer , and from the third houre , which is our ninth houre , dupatch the confessions and evidences of the sound worke of conversion of thirty hundred , all baptized and added to the Church ? Capiat qui volet ; because this place is used to prove a Church-covenant , I will here once for all deliver it out of our brethrens hands : The Author of the Church-covenant b b Discourse of Church-covenant , fol. 22 , 23. saith , There was hazard of excommunication , John 9. 22. and persecution . Acts 5. 3. and therefore the very profession of Christ in such peri●●us times was a sufficient note of discerning , to such discerning spirits as the Apostles .

Answ. If you meane miraculous power of discerning in the Apostles , that was not put forth in this company , where were such hypocrites as Ananias and Saphira . Secondly , this miraculous discerning behoved to bee in all the three thousand , for the satisfaction of their Consciences , of the good estate spirituall of all of them . And if it be miraculous ( as it must be , if done in the space of sixe houres , as it was done the same day that they heard Peter , vers . 41. ) then our brethren cannot alleadge it for ordinary inchurching of members as they doe . Secondly , if it be an ordinary spirit of discerning , then at one act of profession are members to be received , and so often meeting for the satisfaction of all their Consciences is not requisite . Thirdly , if profession for feare of persecution be an infallible signe , then those who are chased out of England by Prelates , and come to New England , to seeke the Gospell in purity , should be received to the Church , whereas you hold them out of your societies many yeeres . Fourthly , suffering for a while for the truth is not much , Iudas , Alexander , Demas , did that for a while .

The c c Apolog. chap. 6. Apologie and discourse of the Church-covenant saith , d d Discourse of the Church-covenant , fol. 24. These converts professed their glad receiving of the Word , vers. 37 38. in saving themselves from that untoward generation , else they had not beene admitted to baptisme . But all this made them not members of the Church for they might havereturned , notwithstanding of this , to Pontus , Asia , Cappadocia , &c. but they continued stedfastly 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in the doctrine of the Apostles . Secondly , they continued in fellowship , this is Church-fellowship ; for we cannot say , That it was exercise of Doctrine and Sacraments , and confound this fellowship with doctrine , no more then we can confound doctrine and sacraments , which are distinguished in the Text , and therefore it is a fellowship of holy Church-state , and so noteth ;

1. A combination in Church-state .

2. In gifts inward to edification , and outward in reliefe of the poore by worldly goods .

Answ. 1. They could not continue stedfast in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship before they were added to the Church , for stedfastnesse in Doctrine , and saving themselves from the froward generation , could not be but habituall holinesse , not perfected in sixe houres . Now that same day , vers. 41. in the which they gladly heard the Word , they were both baptized and added to the Church ; and therefore their stedfast continuing in Church-state , can no wayes make them members in Church-state . Secondly , though they should have returned to Pontus and Asia , &c. they returned added to the Church ; Church-state is no prison-state , to tie men to such a congregation locally , as you make it . Thirdly , there is no word of a Church-covenant , except when they were baptized they made it , and that is no Church-covenant , and that should not be omitted , seeing it conduceth so much , first , to the being of the visible Church , in the which we must serve God acceptably ; Secondly , and is of such consequence to the end , that the holy things of God be not prophaned , as you say . Thirdly , that the Seales of the Covenant be not made signes of falshood . Fourthly , wee would not be stricter then God , who received upon sixe houres profession three thousand to Church state . Fifthly , the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 fellowship is no fellowship of Church-order , which made them members of the visible Church , because the first day that they heard Peter they were added to the Church , and being added they continued in this fellowship , and in use of the Word , Sacraments , and Prayer ; as a reasonable soule is that which makes a man discourse , and discoursing is not the cause of a reasonable soule e e Beza annot. marg. Act. 2. 43. Beza calleth it fellowship in Christian charity to the poore . And f f Syrus interp. ibid. the Syrian interpreter , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . g g Arab. interp. ibid. The Arablan interpreter saith the same . h h Latin . interp. ibid. The ancient Latine interpreter , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 .

Fourthly , if Baptisme bee the Seale of our entry into the Church , as 1 Cor. 12. 13. as Circumcision was the Seale of the members of the Jewes visible Church , then such a Covenant is not a formall reason of our Church-membership , but the former is true , as I shall prove hereafter ; Ergo , so is the latter . The Proposition standeth , because all the baptized are members of the visible Church before they can sweare this Covenant , even when they are Infants .

5. Argu. This Church-covenant is either all one with the Covenant of grace , or it is a Covenant divers from the Covenant of grace ; but neither wayes can it be the essentiall forme of a visible Church ; Ergo ,

First , the Covenant of grace cannot be the forme of a visible Church , because then all baptized , and all beleevess should be in Covenant with God , as Church members of a visible Church , which our brethren deny . If it be a Covenant divers from it , it must be of another nature , and lay another obligatory tie , then either the Covenant of workes , or the Covenant of grace , and so must tie us to other duties then either the Law or Gospell require of us ; and so is beside that Gospell which Paul taught and maketh the teacher , though an Angell i i Gal. 1. 8. 2 Ep. Joh. 10. from Heaven , accursed , and not to be received .

The k k Apologie of the Church of new England . Apologie answering this , saith , First , We call it a Church-covenant , to distinguish it from civill Covenants , and also from the Covenant of grace ; for the Eunuch and godly strangers , Isaiah 56. 3. were in the covenant of grace by faith , and yet complained that they were separated from the Church , and not in Covenant with Gods visible Church .

Answ. 1. No doubt an excommunicated person , whose spirit is saved in the day of Christ , may be in the Covenant of grace , and yet cut off from the visible Church for enormous scandals ; but this is no ground to make your Church-covenant different from the Covenant of grace . A beleever in the Covenant of grace may not doe a duty to father , brother , or master ; but it is a weak consequence , that therefore there is a Covenant-oath betwixt brother and brother , sonne and father , servant and master , which is commanded by a divine Law of perpetuall equity under both old and new Testament , as you make this Covenant of the Church to be , which persons must sweare , ere they can come under these relations of brother , son , and servant . The Covenant of grace , and the whole Evangell , teach us to confesse Christ before men , and to walke before God , and be perfect , and so that we should joyn our selves to the true visible Churh . But none can in right reason conclude , that it is a divine Law that necessitateth me to sweare another Covenant then the Covenant of grace , in relation to those particular duties , or to sweare over againe the Covenant of grace , in relation to the duties that I owe to the visible Church , else I am not a member thereof . And that same Covenant in relation to my father , brother , and master , else I cannot be a sonne , brother , or servant ; this were to multiply Covenants according to the multitude of duties that I am obliged unto , and that by a divine commandment . The word of God l l Act. 20. 28. 〈◊〉 . 13. 17. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 1 Pet. 5. ● , 4. layeth a tie on Pastors to feed the flock , and the flock to submit , in the Lord to the Pastors . But God hath not , by a new commandment , laid a new tie and obligation , that Timothy shall not be made a Pastor of a Church at Ephesus , and a member thereof , nor the Church at Ephesus constituted in a Church-state , having right to all the holy things of God , while , first , they be all perswaded of one anothers regeneration ; secondly , while all sware those duties in a Church-oath ; thirdly , and all sweare that they shall not separate from Church followship , but by mutuall consent .

Heare a reply againe to this of the m m Apol. ●● . 8 Apologie ; such promises as leave a man in an absolute estate as he was before , and ingage onely his act , not his person , these lay no forcing band on any man , but as every man is tied to keepe his lawfull promise , are tied : But yet such promises or covenants as are made according to the Ordinances of God , and doe put upon men a relative estate , they put on them a forcing band to performe such duties , such as are the promises of marriage betwixt man and wife , master and servant , magistrate and subject , minister and people , brother and brother in Church-state ; these put on men a divine tie , and binde by a divine Ordinance to performe such duties . But these Scriptures make not these relations , these places make not every man who can teach , a Pastor to us , except we call him to be our Pastor ; indeed if we call him , we ingage our selves in subjection to him : you might as well say , It is not the c●venanting of a wife to her husband , or the subject to the magistrate , that giveth the husband power over his wife , and the magistrate power over his subject , but the word of God that giveth power to both , and yet you know well the husband cannot call such an one his wife , but by covenant made in marriage .

Answ. This is all which with most colour of reason can be said . But these places of Scripture are not brought to prove the Pastors calling to the people , or their relative case of subjection to him , but onely they prove , that the covenant of grace and whole Gospell layeth a tie of many duties upon us , which obligeth us , without comming under the tie of an expresse , vocall , and publique oath , necessitating us by a divine Law , because in this that I professe the faith of Christ , and am baptized , I am a member of the visible Church , and have right to all the holy things and seales of grace , without such an oath , because the covenant of grace tieth me to a●joyne my selfe to some particular congregation , and a called Pastor who hath gi●●● , and a calling from the Church , is a member of the visible Church , before he be called to be your Pastor , though he be a member of no particular congregation ; for you lay down as an undeniable principle , and the basis of your whole doctrine of independent government ; that there are no visible Churches in the world but a congregation meeting in one place to worship God , which I have demonstrated to be most false : for if my hand be visible , my whole body is visible , though with one act of the eye it cannot be seene ; if a part of a medow be visible , all the medow , thought ten miles in bredth and length , is visible : so , though a congregation onely may be actually seene , when it is convened within the soure Angles of a materiall house , yet all the congregations on earth make one visible Church , and have some visible and audible acts of externall government cummon to all ; as that all pray , praise , fast , mourne , rejoyce , one with another ; and are to rebuke , exhort , comfort one another , and to censure one another , so farre as is possible , and of right and by Law meet in one councell , and so by Christs institution are that way visible ; that a single cong egation is visible which meeteth in one house , though many be absent de facto , through sickenesse callings , imprisonment , and some through sinfull neglect ; and therefore you doe not prove , that we are made members of the visible Church , having right to all the holy things of God , by a Church-oath or covenant as you speake ; neither doe we deny but when one doth enter a member to such a congregation under the ministery of A. B. but he commeth under a ●ew relative state , by an implicite and vertuall covenant , to submit to his ministery , yea and A. B. commeth under that same relative state of Pastorall feeding of such an one . But you doe not say , that A. B. entereth by a vocall Church-covenant , in a membership of Church order , and that by a commanded covenant of perpetuall equity , laying a new forcing band upon both the person and the acts of A. B. just as the husband and the wife come under a marriage covenant . So C. D. sometime excommunicated , now repenteth , and is received as a gained brother , in the bosome of the Church ; all the members of the Church come by that under a new relation to C. D. as to a repenting brother , and they are to love , reverence , exhort , rebuke , comfort him , by vertue of the covenant of grace , but ( I conceive ) not by a new Church covenant entering them as in a Church membership , and Church order towards him . So a new particular Church is erected , and now counted in amongst the number of the visible Churches ; all the sister Churches are to discharge themselves in the duties of imbracing , loving , exhorting , edifying , rebuking , comforting this sister Church new elected . But I thinke our brethren will not say , That all the sister Churches are to make a new expresse vocall Church covenant with this sister Church , and such a Church covenant as maketh them all visible Churches , which have right to all the holy things of God , in and with this new sister Church ; it is the covenant of grace once laid hold on by all these sister Churches , which tieth them to all Christian duties , both one toward another , and also toward all Churches to come in . I thinke there is no necessity of an expresse covenant of marriage betwixt this new Church , and all the former sister Churches , as there is a solemne marriage oath betwixt the Husband and the Wife , and a solemne covenant betwixt the supreame Magistrate and the King and his Subjects , when the King is crowned ; all we say is this , if for new relations God laid a bond and compelling tie of conscience , and that of perpetuall equity , whereby we are entered in every new relative state , beside the bond that Law and Gospell lay on us , to doe duties to all men both in Church and Common-wealth , then when a person is converted unto Christ , and another made a Lawyer , and another a Pastour , another a Physitian , another a Magistrat , another a learned Philosopher and President of an Academy , another a skilled Schoolemaster , and so come under new relations many and diverse in the Church and State , I should not be obliged to love , honour , and reverence them all by vertue of the fifth Commandement ; but I behoved by vertue of a particular Covenant ( I know not how to name it ) to come under some new relative marriage toward all these , else I could not performe duties of love and reverence to them ; and though there be a convenant tacite betwixt a new member of a congregation , and A. B. the Pastor , and they come under a new relation , covenant waies ( which I grant ) is not the point in question , but this new covenant is that which by necessity of a divine Commandement of perpetuall equity , maketh the now adjoyner a member of the visible Church , and giveth him right and claime to the seales of the covenant , so as without this covenant he is without , and not to be judged by the Church , but left to the judgement of God , as 1 Cor. 5. 12 , 13. one who is without . Thirdly , the * * Apology for the Churches of New England , c. 5. Apologie saith , and a a Discouse of a Church covenant , fo. 2. Author of the Church covenant . The covenant of grace is done in private in a mans closet , betwixt the Lord and himselfe , the other in some publique assembly . 2. The covenant of grace is of one christian in particular , the other of a company joyntly , some call the one personall , the other generall . Answ. Though the covenant of grace may be layd hold on in a closet or private chamber , yet the principall party contracter is God on the one part ; and on the other not a single man , but Christ , b b Gal. 3. 16. Psal. 2. 8 , 9. Esau 53. 10. and all his seed , c c Heb. 8. 8. yea the Catholique church , d d Ier. 31. 31. ch. 32. v , 38 , 39 , 40 , 41. I●rem . 50. 5. all the House of Israel ; But our brethrens mind is , that conversion of soules to Christ is not a Church act , nor a Pastorall act , but a worke of charity , performed by private christians ; yet by the Pastorall paines of Peter , three thousand , Act. 2. were converted ; and this is a depressing of publique ministery , and an exalting of popular prophecying , which is the onely publique and ordinary meane blessed of God , for conversion . 2. By this all the covenants sworne in Israel and Iudah were not a swearing of the covenant of grace but of a Church covenant , which we must refute hereafter . 3. We desire an instance or practice of receiving any into the publique assembly , by this Church covenant ; publique receiving by baptisme we grant in Cornelius , Act. 10. the Eunuch , Act. 8. Lydia , and her house , Act. 16. the Iayler , Act. 16. but we never read of Sauls Church●covenant , and Church confession , wherby he was publiquely received into Church membership , nor of such private tryall of Church members and therefore wee thinke it to bee a devise of men .

6. Arg. If this Church-covenant be the essence and forme of a visible Church , which differenceth betwixt the visible and invisible Church , then there have beene no visible Churches since the Apostles dayes , nor are there any in the Christian World , this day , save only in New England and some few other places , for remove the forme and essence of a thing , and you remove the thing it selfe : now if this be true , and if Ministers have Ministeriall or pastorall power over people , and the people no relation unto them as to Pastors , except they mutually enter into this Church-covenant , then are they no Pastors to the people at all , and so all Baptised in the reformed Churches , where this covenant was not , are as Pagans and Infidels , and all their Baptisme no Baptisme , and all their Church Acts no Church Acts , and they all are to be Rebaptized .

The Author of the Church-covenant a a Discourse of the Church-covenant fol. 26 , 27 , 28. saith , there is a reall , implicite , and substantiall comming together , and a substantiall professing of faith and agreement , which may preserve the essence of the Church in England , and other places , though ●hers be not so expresse and formall a covenanting , as neede were ; The eternity of the covenant of God is such , that it is not the interposition of many corruptions , that may arise in after time , that can disanull the same , except they willfully breake the covenant , and reject the offer of the Gospel , which we perswade our selves England is not come unto , and so the covenant remaineth which preserveth the essence of the Churches to this day ; and he giveth this answer from learned Parker b b Parker de pol. Eccles. l. 3. c. 16. p. 166. 167. and he alleadgeth Fox c c Fox acts & monum . 137. who out of Gilda , saith England received the Gospell in Tiberi●● his time , and Joseph of Arimathea was sent from France to England by Philip the Apostle an . ●2 .

Answ. I deny not but Tertullian , and Nicephorus both , say , the Gospell then came to the wildest in Brittaine , and no doubt be ●●ved to come to Scotland , when Simon Zelotes cam● to Brittaine ; but so did the Gospell come to Rome , Philippi , Corinth , will i● follow that the covenant is there yet ? And 1. If the not wilfull rejecting of the Gospell save the essenc● of a visible Church in England ( which charity we command in our Brethren ) Rome may have share of the charity also , and there may be a true visible Church there , as yet : and we then wronged them in separation from them , Because Gods people in Babel , did never wilfully reject the covenant . 2. Our brethren professe a a Apology c. 8. they cannot receive into their Church , the godly persecuted and banished out of Old England , by Prelates for the truth , unlesse ( saith he ) they be pleased to take hold of our Church-covenant . Now not to admit into your Churches , such as cannot sweare your Church covenant , in all one as to acknowledge such not a true Church , and to separate from them , and so the want of an explicite and formall Church-covenanting , to you maketh professors no Church-visible , and unworthy of the seales of grace ; but reverend Parker b b P●●ker de polit . 3. c. 6. saith , that there is such a profession of the covenant in England , sic ut secessionem facere salvâ conscientiâ nullus possit , that no man with a safe conscience can separat therefrom . 3. The ignorants and simple ones amongst the Papists have not rejected the Gospell obstinately , in respect it was never revealed to them , yet the simple ignorance of points principally fundamentall maketh them a non-Church , and therefore the want of your Church-covenant must un-Church all the reformed Churches on Earth : It is not much that this Author saith , the primitive Church never did receive children to the communion , nor any till they made a confession of their Faith . What then ? a confession of their Faith and an evidence of their knowledge , is not your Chuoch-covenant for by your Church-covenant the parties to be received in the Church must give testimony of their conversion to the satisfaction of the consciences of all your Church ; The old confirmation of children was not such a thing . 2. The tryall of the knowledge of such , as were of old not yet admitted to the Lords Supper , is not an inchurching of them , because , if ●ny not that way tryed in the ancient Church , did fall into scan●alcus sins , they were , being come to yeeres lyable to the censures of the Church , which said , certainly the ancients acknowledged them to be members of that visible Church , but you say expresly , they are without , and you have not to doe to judge them , 1 Cor. 5. 12. And let the author see for this a a Concl. Laodi● . c. 7. the coun●ell of Laodicea , b b Gregorius de consecrat. c. 8. c. ab antiqua . Gregorius c c Leo Epist. 77. Leo , d d Augustin . in Joan. tract . 6. de trinit. li. 15. c. 1. de Baptismo l. 3. c. 5. Augustine e e Tertulli●n de resurrell . carnis . Tertullian , f f Cyprian . epist 73. ad Iubajan . Cyprian , g g Ambros. de Sacram l 3. c. 2. Ambrose , h h Concil. Elibert . c. 38. & 77. the councell of Elibert , i i Perkins . problem p. 184. Perkins , k k Martin . Bucer in leiturg . Angl. ch. 482. Martine Bucer l l Chemnitii examen concili Trident. l. 2. p. 71. Chemnitius m m Pet. Martyr loc. com . class . 3. de confirm . Peter Martyr , who all teach that confirmation was nothing lesse then your Church-covenant . 2. That it had never that meaning to make persons formll members of the visible Church . 3. That that was sufficiently done in Baptisme . 4. That comfimation was never the essentiall forme of a visible Church , but rather the repetition of Baptisme ; so n n Whitgift p. 59. 4. Whitgift , ( a man much for confirmation , ) confirmatio apud nos usurpatur , ut pueri proprio ore , proprioque consensu , pactum quod in Baptismo inibant coram Ecclesiâ confirment , o o Pareus comment : in Heb. 6. Pareus sayth they were in the Church before , Sed impositione manuum in Ecclesiam adultorum recipie bantur . p p Beza annot. in Job . 6. Beza saith the same q q Calvin comment in Heb. 6. Calvin , liberi infidelium ab utero adoptati , & jure promissionis pertinebant ad corpus Ecclesiae , r r Bullinger comment . Heb. 6 Bullinger acknowledging that in Baptisme infantes were received into the Church , saith , Pastorum manus illis impone bantur , quorum fidei committebatur Ecclesiarum cura .

7. Argum. A multitude of unwarrantable wayes partly goeth before , partly conveyeth this Church-covenant , As. 1. It is a dreame that all are converted by the meanes of private Christians , without the Ministery of sent Pastors , by hearing of whom Faith commeth , all are made materialls and convertes in private without Pastors ; judge if this be Christs order and way . 2. How it is possible a Church shall be gathered amongst Infidells ? this way Infidells cannot convert Infidells , and Pastors as Pastors cannot now be sent , by our Brethrens Doctrine , for Pastors are not Pastors but in relation to a particular congregation , therefore Pastors as Pastors cannot be sent to Indians . 3. They must be assured in conscience , at least satisfied in every one anothers salvation , and sound conversion : were the Apostles satisfied anent the conversion of Anainas , Saphira , Simon Magus , Alexander , Hymeneus , Philetus , Demas and others ? 4. By what warrant of the word are private Christians , not in office , made the ordinary and onely converters of Soules to Christ ? conversion commeth then ordinarily and solely by unsent Preachers , and private persons Ministery . 5. What warrant have the sister Churches , of the word , to give the right hand of fellowship to a new erected Church ? for , to give the hand of fellowship is an authoritative and pastoriall act , as Gal. 2 9. When Iames , Cephas , and Iohn perceived the grace that was given unto me , they gave unto me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship , that is , saith Pareus , a a Pareus , in collei●●m apostolorum nos receperunt , dextrit nobiscum jūctis , quod intimae conjunctionis nostrae signum fuit & obsignatio . they received us to the colledge of the Apostles , so Bullinger b b Bullinger ib. and c c Beza , a●not . Beza , now this is to receive them in amongst the number of Churches , as Pareus , and members of the catholick Church , but Churches being all independent , and of a like authority , the Sister Churches having no power over this new erected Church , what authority hath Sister Churches , to acknowledge them as Sister Churches ? For 1. They cannot be upon two or three houres ●●ght of them , hearing none of them speak , satisfied in their consciences of their Regeneration . 2. By no authority can they receive them as members of the catholick Church , for this receiving it a Church-act and they have no Church-power over them . 3. What a meeting is this of diverse Churches for the receiving of a new Sister Church ? It is a Church ( I believe ) meeting together , and yet it is not a congregation , and it is an ordinary visible Church , for at the admitting of all converts to the Church-order , this meeting must be : surely here our brethren acknowledge that there is a Church , in the New Testament made up of many congregations , which hath power to receive in whole Churches , and members of Churches unto a Church-fellowship ; this is a visible provinciall , or nationall Church , which they other wayes deny .

6. We see no warrant , why one not yet a Pastor or Elder should take on him to speake to a congregation , though they all conse●t that he speak , exhort and pray , we desire a warrant from Gods Word , that such a thing should be ; here is preaching , and Church-preaching , Church-praying and praysing , and yet there is no Pastor nor man called to office , we see not how this will abide the measure of the Golden-neede , especially in a constituted Church ▪

7. We desire to see such a Church-action , Acts 2. Where three thousand were added in one day to the Church .

8. If it be enough that all be silent , and testify their consent to the Church covenant by silence , how is the Church-Magistrate and these of other Churches satisfied in conscience of the conversion of all ? for all consent to this , the Magistrate may be a King , and he cannot acknowledge these as a Church , whose faces he never saw before .

9. They sweare to be good stewards of the manifold graces of God , and so to publick prophecying , for converting soules , here be men sworn in a Church-way to feede the flock , and yet they are not Pastor● .

10. Here are Church-acts and the power of the Keyes exercised in preaching , and praying , and discipline , and yet no stewards nor Officers of the house who have received the keys to feede .

Quest. 2. Whether it can be proved from the Old Testament , that Christs visible Church was gathered , and being fallen , restored to a visible Church-state , by this Church-covenant .

Our Reverend Bretheren contend that the Church was ever gathered by this Church-covenant .

The Author a a Way of the Churches of Christ in . N. Eng. ch. 1. sect. 1. Prop. 3. saith , that the Lord received Abraham and his children into the Church , by a covenant , Gen. 17. 7. Then when they violated the covenant , he renewed this covenant , Exod. 19. 1. 5. whence they were called the Church in the Wildernesse , Acts 7. 38.

Answ. 1. The covenant , Gen. 17. 7. is not a Church-covenant such as you dreame off . 1. That covenant is the covenant of grace , made with all the people of the Jewes , yea , with children of eight dayes old , v. 7. I will establish my covenant betwixt me and thee , and thy seed after thee in their generations , for an everlasting covenant , to be a God , to thee , and to thy seed . Your covenant is not made with infants , for to you infants are not members of the Church visible , none are in your Church-covenant , but believers , of whose sound conversion you are satisfied in conscience : 2. This is the everlasting covenant made with Job , Melchisedech and many Believers ; not in Church-state , as you grant , your Church-covenant made with a visible Church , is no everlasting covenant . 3. Infants can make no confession ere they be receied in a visible Church . 4. If by this covenant Abrahams house was made a visible Church and all his children circumcised , then every family in the New Testament professing the Faith and covenant made with Abraham , and baptised as Abrahams children were circumcised , are the visible Church , and the place is for us . 5. Abraham and his house before this , when they were first called out of Aegypt , were a Church of called ones professing the Faith of the Messiah to come a a Esai . 51. 1. 2 , 3. Josh. 24. 2 , 3 , 4. 6. The Lord had a Church visible , before the renewing of the covenant at Mount Sinai , Exod. 19. even in Aegypt and when he brought them first out of that Land of bondage . Jerem. 31. 31 , 32. 33 and before this they did celebrate the Passover , the very night , that they came out of Egypt , Exod. 12. and therefore it is false , that for that covenant renewed , Exod. 19. They are called the church in the Wildernesse , all the forty yeares that they were in the Wildernesse , they were the Church in the Wildernesse , The apology b b Apology ch . 3. c. 4. 5. and c c Discourse of the Church covenant . fol. 5. 6. Author of the Church-covenant and Manuscript d d The way of the Church ib. alledge Deut. 29. 10. Yee stand all of you this day before the Lord , & c. v. 12. that thou mightest enter in covenant with the Lord thy God , and the Oath which the Lord thy God maketh with thee , v. 13. That He may establish thee to day a people to Himselfe . Hence they argue , That which maketh a society a people to God , to serue Him in all His Ordinances , that is that whereby a society is constituted in a Church-state ; but by a covenant , God maketh a society a people to God , to serve Him in all his Ordinances ; Ergo. Now that those were a true visible Church they prove , though the word say they had eyes and see not , &c. yet they were not in a carnall estate , but only dull and slow of hearkening , to discerne sundry gracious dispensations , which sinfull defects were in the Lords Apostles , Mat 8. 17. dull and slow of Heart , for this was the Generation which was not excluded out of Canaan , for their unbeliefe , whose carcasses fell not in the wildernesse , and they were now within the space of a moneth or thereabout , to enter into the promised Land , Deut. 1. 3. and it was they who entred by Faith , and subdned Kingdomes , and kept their children poore and constant in Gods worship all the dayes of Josuah 24. 31. It is true ( say they ) a a Apolog , c. 3. God entered also into a covenant with their Fathers 40 , yeares before , but not till he had humbled them to a conscionable ( though a legall ) feare of His great Name ; and even some of them also ( it may be ) remembred that they were borne under the covenant of grace , from the Loynes of Abraham , though needfull it was that God should enter with them into a new covenant , and lead them from the Law to Christ , because they had so long degenerated from the spirit and wayes of Abraham , during their abode in Egypt , Exod. 20. 7 , 8.

Answ. This place maketh both against the constitution of a visible Church , and against the Church-Oath framed by cu● brethren , Therefore once , for all , it must be vindicated ; and 1. I answer , the swearing of a covenant in truth by sound faith putteth person● in state of membership , with the invisible and true body of Christ ; it is true , but not in the state of a Church as visible , and therefore the Major of the first syllogisme it false , it is one thing to be a member of the Church as true , and of the people internally in covenant with God , or a Iew in the Heart ; and another thing to be in covenant externally and a member of the visible-Church , to be borne a Jew and circumcised , and to professe the doctrine of Moses his Law did formally make persons members of the Jewish visible Church , though they should never sweare this covenant , as many died in Egypt , and lived and died members of the Jewish Church , and did eate the Passover , and were circumcised , whose carcasses fell in the Wildernesse , because of their murmuring , these did never sweare , neither this covenant , Deut. 29. nor the covenant Exod. 19. 2. Here is a people in carnall estate and cannot be a covenanted , and churched society of Saints , for v. 3. the Lord objecteth to them habituall hardnesse . 3. The great temptations that thine eyes have seene , the signes and these great miracles . 4. Yet the Lord hath not given you an Heart to perceive , and eyes to see and eares to heare 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to this same day ; this is an habituall blindnesse , propagated from fathers to sonnes as Ez● . 2. 3. They and their fathers have rebelled against mee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 even to the body of this day . Jerem. 25. 3. and Jeremy 3. 25. we have sinned we and our fathers from our youth to this day . Now this is not the state of the Disciples , Mar. 8. for Christ is not judging them of their state , as if they were yet carnall , but of their faithlesse actions , in some particular : when they wanted bread , they distrusted the Lord , when I brake the five Loaves amongst many thousands , how many baskets took yee up ? Christ rebuketh them , that they were yet hardened , notwithstanding some great miracles which might have induced them to believe he would furnish them with bread , But this people was hardened , ( I meane not of them all , but of the greatest part ) against all the meanes of grace , though Moses , by a Synecdoche , mention only signes , temptations and miracles , yet he understandeth and meaneth no lesse , then they were disobedient to all Gods dispensation of meanes , since the time that God first sent Moses to Pharaoh , and preached the covenant to them , Exod. 4. 3 , 4 , 5. Exod. 6. 6 , 7. and therefore nameth he Pharaoh and Egypt with a note of universality , yee have seen all which the Lord did to Egypt , and to Pharaoh and therefore this is an universall habituall hardnesse , and cannot be their infirmity . 3. This is his expression in the like stile , Ez● . 12. 2. Esa. 6. 9. 10. Mat. 13 15.

4. This interpretation of our Brethren doth but helpe Arminians , our Divines say against it , a a Iunius anal . Deut. 29. non dederat vobis co● ad res visas & auditas observandum . Iunius , God ( saith he ) gave not an Heart , cum fructu , with fruite , to observe what you heard and saw , b b Amesius Coron . 3. Art . Arg. 2. p 254 & Antisy● . Art . 3. c. 4. p. 294. Amesius hence proveth , that they were not converted , and that they wanted sufficient grace c c Piscator . amicâ duplicat . ad Vorst . p. 539. Piscator d d Calvin com . in Deut. 29. Calvin hence prove that many are externally called , who are never converted , yea a Papist as e e Cajetan in Deut. Cajetan , and f f Abulensis 29. Abulensis , carnalis itaque manifestatur hic populus , Arminians as these at Dort g g Remons . in Script . dordr . art. 4. p. 113. Vorstius h h Vorstius contra Piscat . p. 539. 540. Grevinchovius i i Grevinchov . con. Amis . p. 38. Episcopius k k Episcop. disp . 9. Th●ll . 3. are of mind , that such places as this hinder not , but all have sufficient grace , if they would believe : so doe the Socinians as the Catechis . l l Catech. Raccov . c. 10 p. 259. of Racovia m m Socin . ad object . critteni . p. 86. Socinus , n n Edvard . Poppius , August . part . p. 91. & . c. 31. 66. Edward Poppius , and our brethren by it will prove all these Jewes to be in the state of Regeneration .

5. The Author of o o Discourse of the church-covenant fol. 5. the Church-covenant saith , they were generally a generation of Believers , but this covenant is made universally with all , as is cleare , it is made with Israel , Captaines , Tribes , Officers , little ones , Wives , children , strangers , the absents , and these who are not borne , v. 10. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14. Now I aske , if all these were satisfied in their consciences , of one anothers salvation , as our p p Way of the church ch. 1. sect. 2. Author requireth , in fit materialls of a visible Church ; It was impossible , Ergo , this is not the Church-covenant of converted persons , knowne to the conscience of Moses , to be converted . 2. Moses saith expresly of the same generation , ch. 31. 20. That when they were come to the holy Land , they would serve other Gods , and provoke God unto wrath . And of that same generation God saith , v. 21. For I know their imaginations , which they goe about even now before I have brought them unto the Land which I sware ; this was ( as you say ) about a moneth before their entry to the holy Land . 27. I know thy rebellion and thy stiffe-necke ( saith Moses ) behold while I am yet alive , this day , ye have been rebellious against the Lord , how much more then after my death ? were they all then a generation , who by faith subdued kingdomes ? Surely this was but verified in their holy Judges , like Ioshuab , and some few others ; it is true they did not prosessedly in Ioshuabs daies make defection , yet they Were not all renewed , ( as our brethren say ) for Ioshuab saith ▪ ▪ ch. 24. 14. Put away the strange Gods , which your fathers served in the other side of the flood , and in Egypt , and serve the Lord . v. 23. Now therefore put away the strange gods , which are amongst you . And that song of Moses , ch. 32. was made for the conviction of the present generation . ch. 31. 22 , 23 , 24 , 25. Now in this song much is said of corrupting themselves , serving idols , forgetting of the rocke , and father who begate them , their sacrificing to devils , and therefore such were not generally such as subdued Kingdomes by fath , and by faith entered into Canaan , as yee say . And so also ( say we ) our Churches under the New Testament , though consisting of a mixed multitude , are rightly constituted , and true visible Churches ; therefore this covenant is not the formall being and essence of a Church . And what sort of people were they when the Lord covenanted with them in Hore● , Exod. 20. A generation who grieved the Lords Spirit , tempted him in the Wildernesse , offered to stem Moses , committed idolatry , would appoint themselves a Captaine to returne backe to Egypt , lusted in the Wildernesse , distrusted the Lord , and could not enter in through unbeliefe , and their carcasses fell in the Wildernesse , and three and twenty thousand were slaine for fonnication . And therefore there is no ground that Moses first or last made a Church covenant onely with some selected and choice persons , partakers of the heavenly calling , heires annexed with Christ , Kings , and Priests unto God , for all promiscuously were the materials of this Church ; yea those , who were not borne , and the absents , Deut. 29. 10. Yee stand this day , all of you before the Lord your God , your Captaines of your Tribes , you Elders , and your Officers , with all the men of Israel . V. 11. Your little ones , your wives , and the stranger that is within thy gate , from the h●wer of Wood , to the drawer of Water . V. 12. That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the Lord thy God , &c. Now were Moabites and Amonites made members of the Iewish Church , and all the strangers ? then they must enter into the Temple ; how then are they forbidden to enter into the congregation of the Lord , to the tenth generation ? You admitted not to your Church covenant in New England all professours , here none are excepted ; this covenant is made with absents , and those who are not yet borne ; now those who are not personally present , and those who are not yet come into the world , can make no restipulation of a covenant with God , nor can be the fellow members of the Church , except you make persons invisible to be visible members of a visible Church .

6. There is farre lesse ground to say , that because they had degenerated from the spirit and waies of Abraham , by idolatry , it was fit that God should renew a covenant with this generation , and so make them a visible Church ; for this is as fitting to say , a sicke man in whom there is a living soule , is made a living man by the entring of a new living soule in his body , for before this covenant the people was the Church visible in the Wildernesse ; the renewing of a covenant may quicken a decaying life of God in some , but it cannot give the being , and essentiall forme of a visible Church , to that which before was a visible Church .

7. Papists would be glad that we should put this in print , that there is a time when God hath no visible Church on earth at all , Bellarmin , Stapleton , Pererius , and others lay this upon us , but unjustly . It would gratifie Arminians as a a Episcop. disp . 27. thesi , 8 , 9 , 10. Episcopius b b Remonst. in confess . cap. 21. thesi 6. the Remonstrantes in their confession , c c Iac Armin. Antiperke , pag. 224. in illa Math. 16. Iacobus Arminius . And the Socinians , such as d d Theoph. Nicolaides in refut. tractat● de eccle. cap. 3 , p 23 , 24 25. Smalcius disputat de eccles . 8. p. 9. Theophilus Nicolaides , (e) Smalcius , f f Ostorodius jnslit . c. 42. p. 4. 2. and Ostorodius , to say that Christ may be a King and head , a husband and redeemer , and yet have neither subjects , members , spouse , nor redeemed people , and that it may fall out that Christ have no Church on earth ; for the laying hold on the covenant giveth being and life to the Church , as the body of Christ and his true spouse , as well as it giveth being to the visible Church , according to ou● brethrens doctrine , and if this covenant cease , there is not a Church of Christ on earth .

8. We have heard nothing here as yet , but the covenant of grace , and no Church-covenant . But saith the Authour of the Church-covenant , (g) Though it be indeed the covenant of grace , and made principally with God ; it followeth not hence , that it is not a covenant of the members amongst themselves , for the covenant of God tyeth us to duties to our neighbour , and to watchfulnesse , and edification one of another , Levit. 19 17. Deut. 29. 18. the neglect whereof in the matter of Achan , brought sinne on all the congregation , Josh. 7. yea it tieth us to duties to children not yet borne , who shall after become members of the Church , when Iehojadah made a covenant betwixt the King and the people ; it was but a branch of the Lords covenant , obliging the King to rule in the Lord , and the people to obey in God .

Answ. 1. But if particular duties to our brethren bind us by a new Church-covenant , because Gods covenant commandeth these duties , then because Gods covenant commandeth sobriety toward our selves , and righteous dealing toward our brethren , there is required a selfe-covenant towards your selves , for temperance and sobriety toward your selves , as there is required a Church-covenant to binde you to duties to those who are in Church membership with you , this no man can say , nor can severall duties require severall covenants . 2. It is true when we enter into covenant with God , we sweare duties to all to whom we are obliged , but then we are made members of the visible Church , before we sweare this Church-covenant ; and this is , as if Abraham were made a living man before he have a reasonable soule , and as if Abraham were Israel his father , before Israel be Abraham his sonne , for if Abraham be in-Churched when he did sweare the covenant of grace , ( as the Authour granteth ) then he must be a member of a visible Church , while as yet there is not a visible Church ; to which Abraham is tied ; I deny not but Israel may sweare obedience to all Gods covenant , and all duties therein , and that he may sweare also in particular , to performe all duties to Abraham his father , in another oath , but that he cannot enter in the state of relation of sonneship to his father , while he sweare that oath in particular , is a dreame which hardly can be conceived .

3. The peoples finne in not warning Achan was a finne against a duty of the covenant , exacting obedience of all in brotherhead , though not in a Church-state , Levit. 19. 17. and Iob and his friends who were members of no visible Church , ( as you say ) did performe this , one to another , Iob 4. 3 4. Iob 2. 11. Iob. 4. 1. 4. The covenant that Jehojadah made betwixt the King and the people , will prove the lawfullnesse of a covenant to performe Church-duties , beside the generall covenant of grace , which we deny not , but doth not prove , that a covenant to Church-duties is the essentiall forme of Church-membership , and the onely way , by Divine precept , of entring persons in a Church-state ; for persons already in Church-state may , upon good reasons , sweare a covenant to these duties , yet are they not of new inchurched to that congregation , whereof they were members before .

Their next principall argument as ( a a Apology c. 4. ) the Apology saith , if a Church-covenant be the essentiall forme of a Church , as a stock of Saints is the materiall cause , then the Church-covenant is necessary to the being of the Church , and it is that wherby Ecclesia integra constituitur , collapsa restituitur , & quo sublato Ecclesia dissolvitur & destituitur , that is , it is by this covenant a Church is instituted in its integrity , and when it is fullen , it is restored to its integrity , and when this covenant ●eas●th , the Church is no longer a visible Church .

Answ. When a Church falleth it is not restored to the state of a visible Church by circumcision , and yet circumcision is given as a signe of a covenant betwixt God and his Church , Gen. 17. 11. nor is a Church restored by Baptisme , or Baptizing over againe , and yet Baptisme is that whereby we are entered members of the visible Church . 2. When persons faile in omitting Church duties ; I thinke they faile against your Church-Oath , yea when they fall into any sinne that may be a scandall to others , yea the finne of adultery , yet if they repent and heare ●he Church , they are not excommunicated , neither doe they ●ose the right of Church-membership and right to the seales of the covenant , nor is it needfull they be restored by renewing a Church-covenant , but we desire to heare from Gods word proofes of the singular vertues of this Church-covenant . 3. Discipline is by all Divines thought necessary to the well being of a Church , but not to the simple being thereof , and for this we apeale to the learned Parker who denieth a a Parker de polit. l. 1. c. 17. Discipline to be an essentiall note of the visible Church , and citeth b b Cartwright adversus Harrin . sonum . Cartwright for this , and therefore saith that Calvin , Bortrandus de Logues , Mornaeus , Martyr , Marloratus , Galusius , and Beza omitteth discipline amongst the notes of the Church .

The apology addeth c c Apology ch . ● . if the nationall Church of the Jewes was made a nationall Church by that covenant , and therby all the Synagogues had Church-fellowship one with another in the Temple , then the congregationall Church is made a visible Church by that covenant . 2. Also the fallen Church of the Jewes was restored to a Church-state ( say they ) by renewing a covenant with the Lord in the dayes of Asah & Hezekiah , and these who fell to Judah 2 Chron. 9. 25. are commanded not to stiffen their necks , or ( as in the originall ) to give their hand unto the Lord , that so they might enter into the sanctuary 2 Chron. 30. & 8.

Answ. Is it credible or possible , that all the Synagoues of so many hundred thousand people , as were in the 12. Tribes were all satisfied in conscience , anent the regeneration one of another● and this is required of you to the right swearing of a Church covenant , else how could they in the Oath joyne themselves to all Israel , as to a Generation of Saints ? ●● Israel before this Oath , was circumcised , and had eaten the Passoyer , and so was a visible Church before , yea then God had no Church visible before this Oath , which is against Gods promise made to David , and his seed , Psal. 89. 28. ●9 . Also in Abijahs dayes Judah was the true Church of God , 2 Chron. 13. 8. And now y●t think to withstand the Kingdome of the Lord in the hands of the sonnes of David . 10. But as for us , the Lord is our God , and we have not forsaken Him . 3. The inchurching of members is a Church-action , as all the Church casteth out , so all the Church receiveth in , as you a a Way of the Church ch. 3. ●ct . 1. say , but the putting of Iudah and the strangers of Israel to this Oath , was by the Kings authority , who convened them , 2. Chron. 15. 9. And Asah gathered all Judah , and Benjamin , and the strangers with them , and they were compelled by the Royall sanction of a civill Law to this covenant , v. 12. and they entred into covenant , &c.

13. That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel , should be put to death , whether small or great , man or woman . 4. How were they all in , conscience satisfied anent the regeneration one of another , 1. Being such a number of Iudah , Benjamin and strangers out of Ephraim , Manasse and Simeon , v. 9. Were . 2. Gathered together and meet but one day ? 5. This covenant obliged young ones , your covenant seekes no Church duties of little ones , for to you they are not members of a visible Church . 6. The place , 2 Chron. 30. 8. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 yeild to God as servants b b Juni●● in annot. prostrati auxilium cjus imploran●es . Iunius , humbly imploring his help , as the same phrase is Lament. 5. 6. we have served the Egyptians 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and the Assyrians to be satisfied with bread , neither doth the Text say in infinitive , that yee may enter into the Sanctuary , as if a renewed covenant were a necessary preparation , before they could enter into the Sanctuary ; but it is set downe as an expresse Commandement of the King 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 enter yee into his Sanctuary , and there is not a word of a covenant in the Text , but only of the peoples keeping the Passover , and though there had been a covenant ( of which the Spirit of God , speaking so much of Iosiah's zealous Reformation , would not have been silent ) it is not to a purpose Iudah was a visible Church , before Hezekiah wrote Letters to them , to ●ome to Jerusalem ; to keepe the Passover , as is cleare ch. 29. 17. they begun to sanctifie the House , the first day of the first moneth , and all the congregation worshipped . 36. And Hezekiah rejoyced at their zeale , and so there was a visible Church , and the Passover was eaten the 14. day according to the Law , also in all covenants renewed by the people of the Jewes , the matter was done suddenly , and all convened in a day , when a voluntary preparation , and evidenced regeneration , could not be evidenced to the satisfaction of the conscience of all the people ; nor can this preparation be called Jewish and temporary , for it is as morall to all who sweare Churches duties one to another , as the covenant it selfe , which our brethren say , is of perpetuall equity . And all these may be answered to the covenant , Neh. 10. where there is no insinuation of Church duties , but in generall . 29. Yo walke in Gods Law , and to observe and ●●e all the Commandements of the Law , and not to marry strange ●vives .

The apology b b Apolog. ubi supra . saith it is to no purpose that the people . 2 Chro , 15. was a Church before this covenant , because the place is not alledged to prove that a people are made a Church by entering into covenant with God , but to prove that a decayed Church is restored by a covenant , now the Church at this time was corrupted with idols , sodomy , &c.

Answ. 1. Yet it proveth well that this covenant is not the formall cause of a visible Church ; for a visible Church hath not its formall being , before it hath its formall cause . 2. The convening of all the people to sweare , is an act of the Church visible , now nothing can have operations , before it have the formall cause . 3. The Author saith , who knoweth that all the Tribes of Israel were yet in covenant with God , from the dayes of their Fathers ? Answer ; I think that it is easily knowne , that they used and exercised many Church actions also , and so were a Church visible of a promiscuous multitude , and it is know●n that none were excluded from this covenant , none selected and chosen out as Regenerates , who onely were thought fit to sweare this covenant , and so that it is not your Church-covenant that all were forced to , and commanded under pain● of death , to attest .

Our brethren , as first a a The way of the churches of Christ in New England ch. 3. sect. 4. our Author , secondly b b Apolog. c 5. the Apology , thirdly the Author of the Church-covenant , repose much on Isai. 56. 3. where the stranger is joyned to the Lord , in a personall covenant , for his own salvation , for so the Text saith v. 3. 4. yet are they not joyned to the visible Church , while they lay hold on the covenant , that is , to sweare a Church-covenant , now that they are not members of the visible Church is cleare f●r Deut. 23. 1 , 2 , 3. The Moabit , Ammonite , though never so holy , cannot be members of the visible Church , because they are discharged , to enter into the congregation of the Lord . 2. They complain● that they are not of the visible Church . The Lord hath separated me from his people . 3. Adjoyning of them to the visible Church is promised ; as a reward of their faith and obedience , v. 8. even a Name in Gods House , Hence it is cleare , persons under the New Testament have a promise and propbecy th●● if they be inward●s joyned by faith God shall give them a Name of Church-membership amongst his people , by swearing a Church-Oath , or if they lay hold on the covenant of the Church .

Ans. 1. There is no churching here of strangers and Eunuches Author of the discourse of church-covenant . fol. 12. by Church-Oath , but as c c Calvin Musculus in comme . Gualther in loc. Calvin , Musculus , Gualter , d d Iunius annot. Iunius , observe , the Eunuch and stranger are comforted that under the Messi●hs Kingdome , they shall have no cause to complaine of their ceremoniall separation from Gods people and the want of some ceremoniall priviledges of that kind , because the stranger and Eunuch shall have . v. 5. an everlasting roome , and honor in Gods Hous● , and the Son of the stranger a place in the Catholick Church v. 6. 7. so being , they believe and obey . But 1. v. 6. to lay hold on my covenant is not to lay hold on the Church-covenant ; give us precept , promise , practise , or one syllable in Gods Word for this interpretation . 1. v. 4. to take hold on the covenant is to believe the covenant , and not to sweare a vocall Oath . 2. To lay hold on the covenant , saith e e Musculus ib. Musculus , is to keep the covenant , and not to depart from it , to live according to it , f f Iunius annot saith Iunius ) and to rest on God , to doe what is Gods will commanded in the covenant ( saith ) g g Calvin com . Calvin , and h h Gualter . Gualter ) and so all who spake sense on that place , and never one dreamed of a Church-covenant before . 3. God saith of it ( my covenant ) there is no reason then to call it a Church-covenant here more then Ierom. 31. 32. 33. Psal. 25. 10. Isai. 55. 3. Ierem. 50. 5. Zach. 2. 11. 4 Laying hold on the covenant is not an externall , professed , vocall , visible and Church embracing of the covenant , for then the Lord promiseth to the Eunuch the name of a faithfull visible fellow member , in a congregation , if he shall lay hold on the covenant , and sweare it in the Church assembly , this Church-swearing is not rewarded so , for how is it proved that a name , even an everlasting name , better then the names of sonnes and daughters , is the name of a fellow-member in some obscure congregation or parish ? is this better then the name of a borne Jew , who was also a member of the visible Church , and if he believed in Christ , had also the everlasting name of a member of the Jewish Church ? Surely there is no ground for this in Gods Word , the everlasting name must be some spirituall remembrance and some invisible honour beyond the externall honour of being named the sonne or daughter of a Jew , and by what warrant also of Gods word is Gods holy mountaine and his house of Prayer . v. 7. which in the New Testament can no more be literally expounded , then offering of burnt offerings by what warrant is this called a parochiall visible congregation , where visible saints meets in one materiall house ordinarily , and in one visible Church-way ? The house of Prayer there , is Joh. 2. expounded of the typicall Temple , which spiritually did typifie Christs body , as he expoundeth it himselfe , Ioh. 2. 18 , 19 , 20. deare brethren doe no violence to Gods Word .

2. There is no ground that the Eunuch and stranger had no other complaint , but want of visible membership : for his laying hold on the Lords Sabbaths saith the contrary , and though he should complain of that , it is a small comfort promised , th●● he shall be a member of a visible congregation , which membership many Iudasses and Hypocrites injoy also . 3. Though there were a visible Church-membership here promised ( as no intepreter that ever yet saw it , but your selves ) yet it should onely follow , before heathen , who are come to age , be Baptized , and so inchurched , they should externally lay hold on a professed covenant , and so , that they might be members of the invisible Church , before they be members of the visible Church , which is much for our Baptisme-covenant , and nothing for your Church-covenant . 4. Church-membership , by your exposition , Regul. j●ris conditionatum ●ihil ponit , nisi ponatur conditio . is promised to none , but these , who inwardly by true faith are joyned to the covenant ; then all Church-Acts performed by pastors and professors not converted , though they proceed , clave no● errante , following Christ his rule are null , and no bapti●ing , no binding in heaven , for a promise conditionall is no promise ( say reason and lawyers ) where the condition is not fulfilled .

The Author of the Church-covenant a a Discourse of the Church covenant art. 1. citeth that of Ez●k . 16. 8. I entred into covenant with thee , and thou becamest min● , Eze. 20. 37. I will cause you to passe under the rod ; here is a covenant , not of a person , but of the whole House of Israel , v. 30. 39. This covenant is called a band , and Junius observeth well , takes from shepheards , who went amongst their sheep with a Rod , and selected and poynted out such as were for the Lords sacrifice , Lev. 26. 31. Ergo , under the New Testament , men enter not into the Church , hand over head , but they passe under the Rod of due tryall , and then , being ●ound meet , are inchurched .

Answ. He entered into covenant with Hierusalem , dying in her owne blood , v. 6. v. 8. your covenant is made with a people washed and converted . 2. All are taken in promiscuously in this covenant externally , good and evill , who prospered to a kingdome , and were renowned amongst the Heathen , v. 13. 14. Your Church covenant is of persons who passe under the rod of pro●ation , and passe for sound converts .

The other place is not to a purpose , for God is not speaking of gathering his people to a visible Church , but as a a Calvin . Calvin b b Pola● . com . Polanus , c c Iunius . Iunius , God is meeting with the peoples wicked conclusion , who said , v. 34. They were banished and cap●ives mixed amongst the Nations , and so free from Gods cor●ecting rod , or band of Discipline , and God saith , and I will make you to passe under the Rod 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and I will bring you under the ●and of my covenant ; The Word is also Psal. 2. 3. and it is true ●hat 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 signifieth a staffe and a rod , Prov. 10. 13. but it signifieth also a Kings Scepter , Gen. 49. 10. but the band of the covenant signifieth no union of a visible Church , nor is the Lord in that place promising the mercy of a gathered Church , but by the contrary , he threatneth an evill , as v. 35. And I will bring you unto the wildernesse of the people , and there will I plead with you face to face , 36. Like as I peaded with your Fathers 37. And I will cause you to passe under the Rod , &c. To select you out from amongst the Heathen , as sheep for sacrificing , as the next verse . 38. and I will purge out from amongst you the Re●●lls , &c. This place is violently brought to witnesse unjustly : And what though God would have them tryed , who were taken under his covenant of protection ? it should be the covenant of grace , and not a Church-covenant , for he meaneth no such thing .

They alleadge , Jerem. 50. 4. And in those dayes , and at that time , the children of Israel shall come , they and the children of Judah together , saying let us be joyned to the Lord , in a perpetuall covenant , that shall not be forgotten .

Answ. 1. Israel and Judah together cannot be a parochiall congregation ; nor 2. Can Sion be a parish Church ; nor 3. is the Church-covenant , from which a man is loosed , when upon good warrants , and the consent of the congregation , he removeth cut of that Church to another , A perpetuall Covenant that shall never be forgotten ; for eternity is proper to the covenant of grace betwixt God and man , Jerem. 31. 33 , 37 , 38. Jerem. 32. 40. Isal. 54. 10. Isai. 55. 3. Isai. 59. 21. and there is no covenant betwixt mortall men , who shall d●e , an eternall covenant .

The Author a a Discourse of a Church-covenant , ●ol . 23. saith , There is nothing more plaine then Isai. 44. 5. One shall say , I am the Lords ; and another shall call himselfe by the name of Jacob ; and another shall subscribe with his hand , and sirname himselfe by the name of Israel : These words are so plaine as nothing can be more plaine .

Answ. This is a cleare place , that under the M●ssiah all people shall professe themselves in covenant with God , and the children of God and the Church , and b b Calvin praelect. ●b . Calvin citeth Psal. 87. 5. and of Sion it shall be said , This and this man was borne in her . but this is not plaine at all , that these professe themselves sworne members of a particular Parish ; yea , the contrary is most plaine , that they shall call themselves by the name of Jacob and Israel ; that is , children of the whole visible Church , for Jacob and Israel is not restricted to one particular congregation . Before the peoples captivity , saith Musculus , c c Musculus com . Isai. 44. The names of B●●l and idoll gods sounded in their mouthes , but then they shall professe the true God , and that they are his people . Now Gods covenant is made principally , not with one single congregation , not is the blood that sealeth the covenant shed for one single congregation ; nor are the promises of the covenant , Yea and Amen is Christ , for one single flocke onely , and primò & principaliter , but for the whole Catholike Church , and therefore they shall name themselves Christians .

The Author addeth , d d Discourse of the Church covenant . f. 9. Every Church is Christs married Spouse , united to Christ by covenant , the violation of marriage is the violation of a covenant ; yea , and there is a marriage betwixt the Church - members , Isa. 62. 5. as a young man marrieth a Virgin , so shall thy sonnes marry thee .

Answ. A marriage betwixt Christ and his Church we grant and betwixt Christ and every particular soule beleeving in him , in respect of the love . 2. mutuall interest and claime one to another , Cant. 2. 16. and what holdeth betwixt Christ and a Church catholick , or particular , holdeth also betwixt Christ and every soule , and to extort a Church covenant betwixt Christ and a particular soule , who may be and often is a beleever , & yet out of Church-state , from the borrowed phrase of marriage , is ●oo violent blooding of comparisons ; and therefore from marriage belonging to the catholike Church principally , how can a marriage visible be concluded ? 2. the sonne● are the whole Church of the Gentiles ; too large a P●rish incolaeterrae , saith Musculus , b b Musculus . and excellently Calvin , c c Calvinus pr●l●ct . ●●●o sic Deus Ecclesia m●●itus est , ut Ecclesie sue maritet ●●nes p●pulos , qui ad cam aggregantur . Christ so is the husband of his Church , that he marrieth upon his Church all people and Nations which are gathered to her , because while the Church wanteth children , she is as it were a widow ; now this is nothing for a Church-covenant . Thirdly , there is a relative obligation of mutuall duties of love betwixt fellow members of a visible Church , and betwixt sonnes and the mother congregation ; but this is first done in Baptisme expresly ; secondly , in our comming to be members of such a congregation , but the person is before a member of the visible Church .

The Author addeth d d Author of the Church-covenant . If dissolving a covenant be that which dissolveth a Church , as Zach. 11. 9. 10. then the making of a covenant is that which constituteth a Church ; if dissipating of stones unbuild the house , then compacting of them together doth build the house ; but the breaking of the covenant under the name of breaking of the two staves , beauty and bands , Z●ch . 11. is the inchurching of the Iewes , Ergo ;

Answ. The dissolving and breaking of the covenant of grace , and the removing of the Candlestick , and the Word of God , Revel. 2. 5. Am●s 8. 11 , 12. taketh away the being of a Church , both as a true Church , and as a true visible Church ; and of such a breaking of the covenant doth the Lord speake Zach. 11. v. 9. and I said I will not feed you ; that which dieth , let it die ; and that which perisheth , let it perish , &c. and it taketh away the union of brotherhead amongst the members , verse , 14. so the thing in question is not hence concluded ; for the question is , if a Church-covenant make a Church as visible , and the breach of that Church-covenant unmake and dissolve a Church as visible , and this place proveth what maketh and unmaketh a Church simply as a Church , not as visible and under that reduplication .

Quest. 3. Whether by testimonies from the new Testament , and good reasons , a Church-covenant can be evinced .

Our Author e e The way of the Churches , chap. 3. sect. 4. prop. 3. alleageth , 2 Cor. 11. 2. I have espoused you to one husband , that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ ; so also the Apologie , f f Apologie chap. 6. this was nothing else but the planting of the Church at Corinth ; if you say this Paul did while he converted them to the grace of Christ by his ministery ; if this were true , saith he , then should Christ have many thousands , hundreds , and scores at least of spouses in one Church , which we thinke inconvenient . Secondly , it is plaine he speaketh of the whole Church as of one spouse , and as it were one chaste Uirgin ; which argueth , he perswaded them all ( as the friend of the bridegroome ) to give up themselves with one accord as one man into one body , to the fellowship and worship of the Lord Jesus .

Answ. it is a weake cause , that hangeth upon the untwisted thred of a misapplied metaphor . For 1. espoufing into Christ in the Text is opposed to being deceived and corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ , as Evah was deceived by the serpent , and opposed to the receiving of another spirit , and another Gospell ; so then to be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ , and to receive another Gospell , must have this meaning ; as Evah was deceived by the Serpent , so I feare that your simple minds be un-Churched and loosed from the visible Church of Corinth , and that you forget your covenant , wherein ye sweare to take Christ for your husband , and me for the friend of the Bridegroome , and that you be remisse in the duties of externall discipline ; and Church-fellowship , and in excommunicating scandalous persons , &c. A● brethren , let not our Lords word be thus tortured and wrested . 2. He expoundeth this espoufing , the presenting of them to Christ in the day of God , as a washed , redeemed , and saved wife of Christ , and not of their Church continuing in visible society . Yea , all interpreters , ancient and moderne , as Augustine , Theophylact , Chrysostome , Oecumenius , Cyrillus , Ambrose , Our latter , Calvin , Bullinger , Beza , Pom●ran , Pellicanus , Sarcerius , Marlorat , Paraphrastes , Erasmus ; and Papists , Aquinas , Haymo : give this sense . Paul as the friend to the Bridegroome finding the Corinthians despising him , and in love with false teachers , grew jealous of them for his Lords cause , that though he had betrothed them to Christ , as a virgin hand fastned by promise to a husband , left they should be drawne away to other lovers , by the cunning of false teachers as Evah was led from her Lord , by subtill Satan . 3. Though he speake of them , as of one body , spouse , virgin , how doth it follow that he speaketh of them , as of a ministeriall and a parochiall body ? for the marriage , the betrothing to Christ , and the acts contrary , the receiving of another spirit , the corrupting of their simple minds , are acts altogether spirituall , internall , invisible , and acts of a Church , as a true Church , & the contrary are acts of a false Church , as false , and not acts of a Church as visible , in a visible meeting , in a visible external act of marrying , nor is their any insinuation , that Paul feared the dissolving of the Church oath and visible order of government . 4. It is not inconvenient , that there be many Spouses , as in every true beleever , there be many single acts of marriage love , and of beleeving , and so of taking Christ for their husband and Lord . A visible Church is the House of God , 1 Tim. 3. 15. the Temple of God , Rev. 3. 12. and yet every beleever is a Temple , 1 Cor. 3. 17. and every one His House ; seeing he dwelleth in them by saith , Ephes. 3. 17. also if this be a good reason , he speaketh of them all , as of one chaste virgin . Ergo , he speaketh of them all , as of one visible parochiall Church . Then brethren , because Christ speaketh , Joh. 3. 29. of the whole Church of the new Testament , as of one bride of himselfe as the bridegroome , and of the whole Catholique Church , that Christ hath washen and redeemed , as of one glorious Virgin , Ephes. 5. 27. and of the one Lambes wife , Revel. 21. 9 , 10. it shall follow that the Catholique church is one visible Church , and so one Parochial congregation , for you mock at a Catholike visible Church , ( as your Authour doth ) who calleth it a a Way of the Churches of Christ in new England , ch. 1. sect. 2. a Chimaera , though without reason . 5. And certainely twenty beleevers in one house and so twenty hundred convened in one , yet out of Church-state , are a body married upon Christ in respect of his Spirit , and their faith laying hold on him , as on their husband ; yea , and the Church of Corinth , as Saints by calling ; and considered without the respect of a visible Church-fellowship , is more properly Christ● wife , and Christ their husband , then they can be called Christs wife , for an externall communion of a visible profession , which is common to them with many repro●ates ; yea , there is no ground at all to call a company , because of their visible profession , Christs wife , no● doth Gods Word speake so ; the converted by Prophets not in office are most properly his wife ; and these may say , we have betrothed you to Christ ; and be not deceived nor corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus . Hence that place also is not for our brethren , 2 Cor. 9. 12. The Apostle thanketh God for the Corinthians professed subjection to the Gospel , in their liberall contribution . Then ( saith the Apologie a a Apology , ch. 11. ) here is a Church covenant ; but if this professed subjection be a ground of a Church-covenant , the Corinthians extended this charity to the poore a● Hierusalem , as the Churches of Macedonia did also , then many particular congregations are Church-members in Church-fellowship , with the Church of Ierusalem ; for they professed this subjection to the Gospell toward the distressed at Ierusalem , and so Corinth exercised Church-acts toward other Churches then their owne ; Independencie by this must fall . Secondly , to relieve the poore is a duty of Christian charity , common to beleevers in Church-state , or not in Church-state , how then can it prove a duty of Church-state ?

The b b Apology , ch. 11. Apology addeth , Hebr. 10. The Hebrews are commanded not to forsake the assembly of themselves together , as the manner of some is ; Ergo , they convened by mutuall consent , and so by covenant .

Answ. Doe not Infidels and Indians , as you teach c c The way of the Churches of Christ in New England , c. 3. sect. 2. come to your Assemblies to heare the Word , and partake of the prayers and praises of the Church ? But ye will not say , They are to come to those Assemblies by a Church-covenant . Secondly , what though they intended Assemblies by consent , and tacite covenant ? it will not follow therefore by your Covenant , which is the formall cause of a visible Church , and this place proveth nothing , 2 Cor. 8. 5. The Churches of Macedonia first gave themselves to the Lord , and then to us , therefore they were In-churched , by way of covenant to our ministery , so a a Discourse of the Church covenant , fo. 9. the discourse ; but these Churches gave themselves to God ( in that dutie of charity ) and then to us , the exhorters to that charity , and the conveyers thereof to Ierusalem ; then the Church of Corinth was married on God , on Paul , yea and on the Churches of Jerusalem , for the Author maketh this mariage-love , and so Jerusalem is erected a mother Church , and Corinth subjected unto her ; for these who give Almes , as becometh saints , are said to give their heart to God , and to the poore , as Isai. 53. 10. To draw out their heart to the poore , and that because of their chearefull and compassionate giving . Our Author b b The way of the churches c. 3. sect. 4. saith John Baptist repelled Scribes and Pharisees , and the prophane multitude , from his baptisme , Luke 3. 7. Mat. 3. 7. and this was godly zeale , for they were a generation of Vipers , Luk. 3. 7. 8. and therefore they were not meet for Baptisme , which is a Baptisme of Repentance , Luke 3. 3. Philip baptised not the Eunuch while he made profession of faith . These and the like the Author and our brethren bring to prove , that men are not inchurched but by confession covenant-wayes , and also to prove that the matter of the Church should be Saints by calling , hence c c Apolog. ch . 11. The Apology citeth Iustin Martyr d d Iustin Martyr apol. who saith three things were required of such ▪ as were to be received into the Church . 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , that they be dedicated to God as members of their Church . 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 or regeneration , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 saith or a confission of faith and. 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 which is a promise or covenant to live according to the rule of the Gospell ; and the Author saith e e Discoruse of the Church coven . 25. there were three questions prop●unded to these who were received by Baptisme , Abrenuncias ? Abrenuncio . 2 credis ? credo 3. spondes ? spon●eo , f f Zipperus de polit. Ecclesiastica . l. 1. c. 14. Consuctum est nt qui admittantu● ad S. caenam coram totâ ecclesia , publicè sidei consessionem edam per parentes aut c●s qui erant parentum loco . Zipperus the Author saith hath more of this g g Discourse fol. 25. .

Answ. 1. Yee read not in the word that Iohn Baptist rejected any from his Baptisme , who desired to be baptized , yea by the contrary , Luk. 7. 29. It is said , and all they that heard him , and the Publicans justified God , being Baptized with the Baptisme of John . v. 30. but the Pharisees and Lawyers rejected the counsell of God , against themselves , being not baptized of John : then the Pharisees and Lawyers refuse to be Baptized , and Mat. 3. 5. Then went out unto him , Jerusalem and all Judea , and all the Regions round about Jerusalem , confessing their sins , but when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadduces come to his Baptisme , he sayd unto them . O generation of Vipers , &c. But that he baptized , them by the same Sermon , is cleare , for v. 8. He exhorteth them to Repentance , and v. 9. dehorteth them from a● hypocriticall profession , v. 10. he threatneth judgement to them , and v. 11. saith , I did baptize you with water , that ( you ) is relative , to these whom he called a generation of Vipers , and includeth them , for there is no ground in the Text to exclude them , and Luk. 3. 7. and he said to the multitude , that came forth to be Baptized , O generation of Vipers , & c. v. 21. and when Also if you w●ge a confession of faith before Baptisme of all and every one , ourdivines from Iohn his Baptizing of all Judea , doe prove the Baptizing of Infants , you call in question with Anabaptists , if it be law full to Baptise Infants , & you make a Church covenant necessarily requisite before Baptisme , and so all Baptized must be members of the visible Church , which you deny . all the people was baptized , &c. Iesus also was Baptized . It is true , all that were baptized , and come to age confessed their sins , but they were entered members of the Christian Church by professing the covenant in baptisme , and their covenant was no Church-covenant , entering them members of a parochiall Church Oath , but entered them members of the whole visible Church , and they were not tyed to such and such Church-acts of prophecying and judiciall binding and loosing ; Also could they all be satisfied in conscience of one anothers regeneration , for they did not meete frequently together to prayer and spirituall conference ? 2. How could all Jerusalem and all Judea , Ma. 3. 5 , 6. and all the regions round about , and all the people baptized , Luk. 3. 21. all sweare a Church-covenant , and give a particular confession of their sinnes to the satisfaction of Iohn Baptistes conscience ? yea Iohn saith expresly of this visible baptized Church , Mat. 3. 10. 12. that they were some of them fruitles Trees to be hewen down , and some of them ch●ffe to be burnt with unquenchable fire , so the materials of this baptized Church are not visible Saints , and Lawyers hold of the covenant , as our brethren say . 2. The Eunuch coming to Jerusalem to worship , ( which is an act of a Church-member ) was in Church-state before he was baptized , and a Proselite . 3. It is true that you cite out of Iustin Martyr , but you omit a word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ( saith Martyr ) a Baptisme-covenant and professed by the heathen come to age , of which also onely and of no other , Iustine Martyr speaketh , we wilingly acknowledge , but by that covenant they were received unto the catholick visible Church , and not unto a single independent Church only .

4. These Questions were propounded to the aged before they were baptized , and reason that heathen be tryed , before they be baptized , and in this we agree with the Synod of a a Synod . Heideburg . c. 64. Heidelburge , b b Synod . Lugdinens . act . 17. in concione Lugdunensi against Papiste , and in Synods Parisiensi c c Parisiens . art . 3. and what Mr. Parker d d Parker de polit. Ecclesiast. l. 3. c. 16. 9 , 4 , 5. saith further of this kind may be admitted , if well expounded . 5. Zipperus helpeth us , consuetum est , &c. He thinketh it an ancient custome in the primitive Church , that before any were received into the Church they should give a confession , either themselves , or ( saith he ) Parents and Tutors , and so he acknowledgeth that infants in baptisme were made members of the Church , though they could not sweare this Church-covenant , nor give evidences of their conversion , and this is acknowledged by all the reformed Churches , of France , Germany , Holland , Helvetia , Poland , England , Scotland , &c.

The Apology e e Apology ch . 6. citeth , Acts 5. 13. And of the rest durst no man joyne himselfe to them , Greece , durst not be glewed to them , a word of marriage covenant , Mat. 19. 5. & Acts 9. 26. Saul desired to be glewed to them , the former word must note some voluntrary act of joyning to the visible Church , and that different from the act of conversion , for otherwayes it is grosse Armimainsme , to say that our conversion dependeth upon our daring , or not daring , or that it is suspended upon an act of our freewill , for it dependeth upon the omnipotent working of the grace of God ; and Saul Acts 9. 26. though converted , yea and baptized , yet was he not received into the Churchfellowship , untill they were better satisfied of his spirituall estate , by Barnabas , hence it is an error , that to be added to the Church is only to be converted to the faith , Ergo , a covenant is requisite .

Answ. How strong is Gods truth , Brethren , yee make your opinion weake which hangeth upon a grammatication of one borrowed word , None durst joyne mariage-way to the Church-visible ; f f Erasmus in paraph. Erasmus , g g Beza annot in loc. Beza say it is a word translated from Trees glewed together , and signifieth neither marriage , nor covenant , and signifieth either naturall or artificiall or morall conjunction , Acts 8. 29. Philip is bidden joyne himselfe to yonder Chariot , joyning of Chariots is neither by marriage , nor covenant , so is the word , Luk. 15. 15. 2. It is not joyned to a visible Parish Church , but to the whole Christian Church out of which Ananias and Saphira were cast . v. 9. 10. Which made great feare , and made those who were not baptized ( saith c c Pomeran . comment . Pomeranus ) to feare to joyne to the Church of God , and so it behoved to be the unbaptized and unconverted , who were feared , v. 12. and they were all with one accord , in Salomons porch , that is , all the faithfull added to the Church , now opposite to these , he saith of the unconverted and not added to the Church . v. 13. and of the ●est , without the Church , durst no man joyne himselfe to the Church : now this cannot be in a visible society , for then Luke should intimate , that the unconverted might have added themselves to the Church if they durst , and had not beene stricken with the terror of the miraculous killing of Ananias and Saphira , now this they could not have done ( as our Brethren say ) hand over head , they behoved first to be converted , and testified their conversion by a Church Oath , nay Cajetan a a Cajetan . com . in loc. saith well , they durst not haunt their company , they fled from them , and from the Apostle Peter , as from a man slayer , Nor doth the holy Ghost ( I thinke ) meane of any Church fellowship , he presupposing that they were unconverted , at least our Brethren must say this . 3. It is an unlearned reason that they give to prove , he meaneth not of conversion , for all voluntrary acts supernaturall even of joyning to a visible Church and marrying of themselves to Christ , and his visible Church ( as our Brethren say ) are acts wrought by the irresistible , and omnipotent working of Gods grace , no lesse then our first conversion ; and to thinke otherwayes of our supernaturall actions , is grosse Arminianisme , for so all who have written against Arminians as the learned Doctor Twisse , Amesius , Pareus , Triglandius , have expounded that passage ( It is God who worketh in us both to will and to doe ) so Calvin , Beza , Sibrandus , Pareus , Ursine , Tilenus , Bucan , make all the operations of saving grace in conversion , and after conversion , irresistible . And it is knowen how the Dominicanes , Alvarez , Estius , Bannes Fran. Cumel , Matthew Rspolis , and many of that side hold a predeterminateing operation of grace ad modum causoe Physicoe , which beginneth before free will , so that no operations supernaturall , yea nor naturall are suspended upon the liberty of freewill , and they hold againsti Pelagianes , and the Jesuites , Snarez , Vasques , Valentia , Becan , Lod. Meratius , Hyeron . Fasolus , Did. Ruiz ; and if you suspend all voluntrary acts upon the influence of freewill , you follow Pelagians , Jesuites , Socinians , and Arminians in that point . 4. It is true the Disciples were affraid to admit Saul to their society , and no wonder , for he had not long since made havock of the Church ; but. 1. They did not inchurch him by an Oath . 2. They received him upon the sole testimony of Barnabas v. 27. which order you keepe not , refusing communion to Christians of approved piety , and knowen so to you , because they cannot sweare your Church covenant . 5. Who they be , who thinke , to be converted to the faith , and to be added to the visible Church , to be all one I know not ; our divines never said it . 6. Though all were granted you , they durst not joyne to the apostolick visible Church ; Ergo , there is a Church covenant , it is a great consequent .

Now I desire to try your reasons for a Church covenant . It is not ( saith the Apology ) a a Apolog. c. 6. hearty affection that uniteth Church-members in a visible Church , for so England and Scotland are united , nor . 2. cohabitation , for Papists and Protestants 1 Arg. from Reason . may cohabite , and yet they are not of one visible Church , nor 2. Meeting in one assembly uniteth not persons together , for infidels and Turkes . 1 Cor. 14. may come to Church-assemblies , and heare the word , Ergo , this union must be as in all Bodies , Cities , Houses , Armies , by Covenant ; none is made a Citizen to have right to the priviledges of the City , but by a Covenant , for when one is received a member of an House or of an Army , or of any incorporation , 〈◊〉 is by a Covenant .

Answ. 1. The ennumeration is unsufficient , for the Seale of Baptisme and a profession of the truth , is that which maketh one a member of the visible Church . 1 Cor. 12. 13. for by one spirit , we are all baptized into one body , and can you deny the covenant , which is sealed in baptisme ? and by this are all the Citizens and Domesticks inchurched and received into the visible Church , and when one removeth from one congregation to another , hee maketh a tacite covenant to serve God in all his Ordinances with that new society , but he is not thereby made a member of the visible Church ; for that he was before : nor hath hee right to the Seales , as they are Seales of such a Church , but as they are Seales of the whole Catholick Church .

The Apostles ( saith the a a Apolo ib. ch 6. apology ) did two things when 2 Arg. they planted Churches 1. They joyned them together in a Church covenant . 2. They constituted Elders in every Church , Acts 14 13. what the Apostles did , after they converted their hearers , a baptizing , praying for them , laying on of hands , exhorting , inchurching against persecuters , disputing against adversaries , miracles ▪ are acts tending to the good of the Church , not acts of planting a Church .

Answ. 1. The first of these two is in question , we reade not of such a covenant , as our brethren speake of . 2. Converting of Soules after the Church is constitute , is an adding to the Church , and preaching tendeth to this ; The Law of the Lord converteth , Psal. 19. and when the Church is planted , it is not a perfect house , but stones are fitted and laid upon the corner stone dayly . 3. That the Apostles act of planting is conversion and gathering to a visible body by a covenant , we deny ; for planting is an erecting of Professors and Judges or Officer , whether they be converted , or not , so they professe the truth .

3. Arg. All Churches ( saith the discourse b b Discourse of the church covenant ●●l . 10. 11. ) are confounded , if there be not this Covenant to distinguish them , Smyrna is not Ephesus or Thyatira , none of them is Laodicea . 2. Every one of them is rebuked , for their own faults . 3. Faith or cohabitation doth not distinguish them . , Ergo , this Church-covenant only doth distinguish them .

Answ. Particular congregations differ not in essence and nature , as Church covenants differ not in nature ; onely they differ in accidents and number , and it is folly to seeke differences , for Church covenants make not the difference ; for ● Church covenant ia common to them all . 2. So Peter may be rebuked for his fault , and John for his , yet Peter and John differ not in nature .

The apology c c Apology p. 11. addeth , it is not a Covenant simply and is generall , that doth constitute a Church , or distinguish it from another , but a Covenant with application , or appropriation , to these persons , as in mariage all promise these same duties , yet a Covenant applyed to this man , and this woman , maketh this man such a woman● husband , and no other man .

Answ. If this be all , baptisme and professed Faith applied to this man rather then to this , shall as well distinguish persons and Churches , as Church covenants , so applied . 2. This is not a good and fit division , so to appropriate this Pastor to this flock , as he shall be a Pastor to no other people , but to them , and everteth all communion of Churches and Saints and denieth the use of the Seales in this Congregation from all members of another congregation whereas ; God hath made him a pastor in relation to the whole visible Church on Earth , though his labours be tyed to one determinate Church ; So Papists marry the Bishop and his Church , hence they thought it unlawsull for a Bishop to d mit his Church in any case , for a a Enaristus Epis● 2. de Episcopis ●j●ctis sicut vir non debet adul●erare uxorem suam , ita neque episcopus ecclesi● suam ut cam demitttat . Enaristus calleth that spirituall adultery , and we cannot approve of the b b Concil. Antioch . c. 21. councell of Antioch , and c c Concil. Sardi . cons. 1. Sardis , that none can leave his Wife , that is , his married Church , etiamsi à populis eri● Episcopus necessitate adactus ; And they say that d d Concil Carthaginense . 3 c. 38. Cres●on was condemned in the councell of Carthage , for changing his Wife , to wit , his Church , e e I●nocetius . 3. and Innocentius 3. saith , the spirituall baend of mariage betwixt a Bishop and his Church , is stronger , then the mariage-band betwixt a man and his wife ; yea , Dominicus a Soto f f Dominicus Sotus justit . & jure . l. 3. quest. 6. art. 2. saith , to change Churches is against the Law of nature , as to change Wives ; yea saith Innocentius . 3. g g Innocent 3. Onnipotens Deus conjugium quod est inter Episcopu● & Ecclesiam suo tantum judicio reservavit dissolvendum .

3. Argu. A free people ( saith our Author ) h h Way of the church ch. 1. sect. Prop. 3. cannot be joyned in a body , but by mutuall consent , as appeareth in all Relations , betwixt Parents and Children , Husband and Wife , no Church ( saith he ) i i Ibid. ch. 3. sect. 4. can take charge of a stranger believer comming from another congregation , unlesse he give himselfe , and offer his professed subjection to the Gospell , also it is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free , that every one choose ●his own Pastor , Rom. 14. 1. we are to receive a weake believer ; Ergo , he is to offer himselfe to the Church and to their order , by Covenant .

Answ. 1. It is true , the relation of Pastor and free people is founded upon a tacite Covenant , but this Covenant is made in Baptisme , for a pastor is a pastor to yound children whom ●he received into Covenant , in baptisme , according to that , Acts 20. 28. feed the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers , now infants are of these , because he is to feed them as a pastor loveing Christ his lambes and young ones , no lesse then the aged . 2. Because hee exercised pastorall acts over young ones , when he baptizeth them , yet infants are not under a ministery by a Church covenant . 3. The act of election includeth a tacite promise of subjection to the Minister , who is elected , and the pastors acceptation of the Church-Office includeth a tacite promise to feede that flock , but this is no Church-covenant , which I prove by one argument unanswerable . The Church-covenant ( say our Brethren ) is the formall cause of our Churchmembership , and of a visible Church , as a reasonable soule is the formall essence of a man , now the covenant that can intervene betwixt a pastor elected , and a people electing , is a posterior and later by nature , then a Church-covenant ; for a people is a Church , as our brethren teach ) and so constitute in its full power of all Church operations , and so hath its entyre essence , and essentiall forme , before they elect a pastor , as a man must be a reasonable man , before he can exercise the second operations , or actus secundos flowing from a reasonable soule . Therefore a Church and Pastor d●e take charge of a stranger comming to the Congregation though there be no Church-covenant , betwixt the Pastor and stranger , for the Church covenant is prior to the comming of this stranger and hath already constituted the Church in its entyre essence and operations , though no stranger come at all , and though that stranger never covenant to obey the Pastor , and the Pastor never covenant to take care of that stranger . 4. Whereas it is said , It is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free , that every one choose his own Pastor , I see not the truth of this in Scripture ; The people hath power to choose , but that is a part of Christian liberty in this sense , I see not : the Prophets and Apostles exercised pastorall acts over many who made not choise of their Ministery , yea they preached to them against their will , and Paul preached as a Pastor to many in Corinth , against their will , and a faithfull Pastor may preach to many , who never made choise of him for their Pastor , and to whom the word is the savour of death unto death , and to whom he hath vengeance in readinesse . 5. There is no liberty purchased to us by Christ , but such as is regulated by Gods Word , and found reason , a liberty of sole will in embracing or refusing a Minister , is licence , not liberty : now in Christ , we are called to liberty , not to licence , and if some of a congregation wanting the spirit of discerning upon prejudice , refuse a called pastor , to be their pastor ; yet if the most part of the congregation elect him , he is a pastor to all , and to those who refused him , as Christ doth reigne in the word and Ministery , over hypocrites , in a congregation , who say in their hearts we will not have this man to reigne over us ; yet here is a Ministeriall charge which a pastor hath lawfully over such , as are not willing to submit to that ministery : the power of electing a pastor is not infallible ; what if they or most of them , upon sole groundlesse prejudice , refuse such a man to be their pastor , is he not their pastor because all consent not ? are we to thinke that Christ purchased a liberty in his bloud of refusing a called pastor ? nor can we thinke these who taught the doctrine of the Nicolaitans in Pergamus , and these who held the doctrine of Balaam , or that the woman Jezebel which called her selfe a prophetesse in Thyatira , and seduced the people of God to commit fornication , and to eate things sacrificed to Idols , were received in Pergamus and Thyatira by a Church covenant ; nor hath it colour of truth , that the faithfull there were satisfied in conscience , with the conversion of I●zabel , and such as held the doctrine of Balaam , and that they consented , and did choose the Angell of the congregation of Pergamus , and Thyatira ( as our brethren speake ) for their pastor , and yet the pastors and Church are rebuked for not executing the censures of the Church over the followers of Balaam , Revel . 2. 14 , 15. and upon Iezabel the false prophetesse ; Ergo they are not all such materialls of a visible Church , ( as our brethren say ) even saints by calling , and a Church doth well take the charge of those , who never offered their professed subjection to Christs Ordinances , we are not to thinke , that these who called themselves Apostles , and yet were Lyers , were visible saints approved in the sight of God to the consciences of the Church of Ephesus , and that such did offer their professed subjection to the Angell and Church of Ephesus , as you teach , yet that Church tooke care of them , by the censures of the Church , and are commended therefore , Revel. 2. 2. Thou canst not beare them that are evill , and hast tryed them , which say they are Apostles , and hast found them liers . If a false teacher shall come to a congregation , and be a hearer for some yeares , and at length fall to , and teach pernitious Doctrine , will not the Church censure him , labour to stop his mouth , yea and excommunicate him , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord ? I thinke they cannot but exercise some Church censures , and that the pastors convincing of such a gaine-sayer , and a stopping of his mouth , is the very pastorall charge , layd upon Titus by Paul , Tit. 1. 10 , 11 , 12. as is most cleare v : 13. Rebuke them sharply , that they may be sound in the faith .

6. That place Ro. 14. is not rightly , expounded , for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is not to receive into Church-state by way of covenant , but it is , as Pareus a a Pareus comment , Rom. 14. saith , am●●ter & placide instituere , patienter tolerare , to instruct him patiently in the Christian liberty about meates and dayes , and so b b Beza ann●t . Beza , take him in ; and far lesse , slee not his company , c c Calvin . com . Marlorat , institute , fovete , donec proficiat , and so d d Castellio . Calvin , (e) Castellio , opitulemini , helpe him , and the word is Philem. 12. receive him as my bowells , not unto Church-state , for Philemon was no pastor .

Question 3. Whether or not , it be lawfull for one , or many Quest. 18. sent and resolved by the postors of New England . particular Churches , to sweare a plate-forme , and prescribed vocall covenant , called the confession of Faith , of such a Church .

It is a fit place , having spoken so much of a Church covenant , to speake of a covenant of the faith of a Church ; our Brethren being asked , what meanes have you to preserve unity and verity .

Answ. 1. We have ( say they ) Scriptures . 2. The pastors , Epk● 4. 11. and Gods promise to leade them in all truth , Ierem. 32. 39. Ier. 16. 13. But this is not a right Answer , for when we inquire of the meanes to preserve verity and unity , we aske for the externall meanes , whereby the Scriptures are kept , from false glosses ; it is true the Scriptures keepe themselves from false interpretation : but the Question is , by what externall meanes doe the Scriptures keepe themselves from false glosses ?

The answer is not right , the Scriptures keepe themselves from false glosse● , by keeping themselves from false glosse● . Also the Question is by what meanes doe pastors keep unity amongst themselves . It is not right answered , that pastors , by pastors , keepe ●nity amongst themselves .

But we think a plat-forme ( say ●ur Brethren ibid: ) of doctrine and discipline , or a confession of Faith , or doctrine according to godlines , may be made by any Church or person , but ( say they ) ●● plat-forme to be imposed on our selves or others , as a binding Rule ●f faith , and practise , so that all men must believe and walke according to that plat-forme , without adding , altering , or omitting , we doubt whether such be lawfull , or convenient . Whence our brethren con●emne the swearing or subscribing by Oath , of a confession ●mposed or stinted by the Church . Let these considerations be weighed .

1. Distinction , There is a principall and originall and formall ●round of faith which is the Word of God in the Old or New Testament , this is the onely persit and formall ground of Faith . 2. There is a secondary and materiall ground of Faith , which is so far ● ground of Faith and practise , as it agreeth with the Word ●f God .

2. Distinct. There is a confession which containeth fundamentalls only , the knowledge whereof is simply necessary for salvation , and the simple ignorance whereof condemneth ; There is a confession which containeth fundamentalls and non - fundamentalls , which are not simplie necessary to be knowen by all , necessitate ●●edii .

3. Dist. A confession of faith , is to be respected in regard of the matter , which is Divine Scripture , or according to the stile , conception and in●erpretation , which is in some respect , humane .

4. Distinct. There is a confession of a particular man , what such a person , or Church believeth de facto , as the confession of ●●e Belgick Arminians , and a confession de jure , what every one ought to believe , as the Nicen Creed , the Creed of ●thanasi●s .

5. Dist. There is a confession of a faith firme and sure , quoad ●ertitudinem fidei , quoad substantiam articulorum credendo●um , sure in the Articles believed , and a confession sure , quoad radicationem fidei in subjecto ; the first way all are obliged ●● believe the Articles contained in the word , But we see not , how now after the Canon of Scripture is closed , but the certainty of faith , according to the measure of light more or lesse , as our Lord more or lesse doth reveale himselfe , in a more , or lesse measure of light : doth not grow , wo● , or decrease , according to the certainy of faith , the second way , hence we say .

1. Conclusion , Onely the Word of God is the principall and formall ground of our Faith , Eph. 2. 20 , 21 , 22. 2 Tim. 3. 16. Luk. 14. 25.

2. Concl. A confession of Faith containing all fundamentall points , is so farre forth the Word of God , as it agreeth with the Word of God , and obligeth as a rule secundary , which wee believe with subjection to God , speaking in his owne Word , and to this plat-forme wee may lawfullly sweare .

1. What ever wee are obliged to believe and professe as the saving truth of God , that we may lawfully sweare to professe , believe and practise , that the bond of faith may be sure : but wee are obliged to believe and professe the nationall confession of a sound Church ; Ergo. The proposition is cleare , from Davids and the Saints practise who layed bands on their soules to tie themselves to that which is lawfull , as , Psal. 119. 106. I have sworn , and will performe it , that I will keep thy Righteous judgements . The major is the doctrine of our Dvines , and cleare , when they explaine the matter of a lawfull Oath as a a Pareus Urfin . in mand . 3. q● . 102. art. 4. Pareus b b ‛ Bucanus loco 45. quest. 6. Bucanus c c Tilen. sint . disp . 42. in tert. pr●c●pt disp . 1. Thess 17. Tilenus , d d Profess . Leyd . synop . purior . theolog . disp. 38. Thess. 5. Profess Leydens . e e Calvin in mand . 3. Calvin , Iunius , Beza , Piscator , Zanchi● , &c. That things lawfull , may lawfully be sworne to GOD , observing other due circumstances . The assumption is ●●deniable .

2. Arg. That whereof we are assured in conscience to be the truth and true Religion , bringing salvation to mens soules , to that we may tie our selves , by an Oath , upon the former grounds . But the sound confession of faith , set downe in a platform● is such , as we may and are to be assured of in conscience , ● the truth of God ; Ergo , The assumption is proved , because what is Gods Word and truth , of that we are to be assured of i● conscience , as Col. 2. 7. Being knit together in love unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding , and Heb. 6. 11. should keepe the full assurance of hope to the end , Col. 2. 2 , 3. Eph. 4. 14.

3. If the people of the Iewes did sweare a covenant with God , to keep the words of the covenant , to doe them , Deut. 29. 9. 10 , 11. To seeke the Lord God of Israel with all their heart , and with all their soule , 2 Chron. 15. 12. and if they entered into a curse , and an oath , to walke in the Lords law which was given by Moses the servant of God , to observe and doe all the Commandements of the Lord , and subscribed and sealed the covenant , with their hands , Nehem. 10. 1. v. 29. Then is it lawfull for a Church to sweare , and by oath subscribe an Orthodox confession . But the former is true , as the places alledged cleare ; Ergo , so is the latter . That which onely may be doubted of , is the connexion of the major proposition , because Israel did sweare to nothing but to Moses written Law , which in matter and forme was Gods expresse written word ; but it will not follow , that we may sweare a plat-forme of Divine truth framed and penned by men ; but the connexion notwithstanding of this remaineth sure , because Israel did sweare the Lords covenant , according to the true meaning and intent of the Holy Ghost , as it is Gods Word , and we also sweare a Nationall covenant , not as it is mans word , or because the Church or Doctors , at the Churches direction , have set it down in such and such words , such an order or method , but because it is Gods Word , so that we sweare to the sense , and meaning of the platforme of confession , as to the Word of God ; now the Word of God , and sense and meaning of the Word is all one ; Gods Law and the true meaning of the Law are not two different things . When a Jew sweareth to the doctrine and covenant of God in the Old Testament , in a Jewish meaning , he sweareth not to the Word of God , because the Word of God unsoundly expounded is not the Word of God ; and though the Sadducees and Pharisees sweare the five bookes of Moses , and the very covenant which Asah and the Kingdome of Iud●h did sweare 2 Chron. 15. yet doe they not sweare the covenant of God , and that same which Gods people did sweare 2 Chron. 15. Or if any professing they worship idols should sweare that covenant , alledging the covenant doth not forbid idols to be memorials and objects by which absolute adoration is given to God , we would not thinke that they had sworne the covenant of God , but onely words of God falsely expounded , yea and made to be not Gods Word , but a plaine lying invention . Therefore it is all one whether a Church sweare a confession , in expresse words of Scripture ; or a covenant in other words expounding the Scriptures true meaning and sense according to the language and proper idiom of the Nation and Church ; for we sweare not words or a platforme as it is such , but the matter , sense , and meaning of the Scriptures of God set downe in that platforme ; and it is certaine , in Nehemiahs time there was some platforme , either the writings of Moses , or some sound exposition thereof ; else I see not how they could seale it , Nehem. 9. 38. And because of all this , we make a sure covenant , and write it , and our Princes , Levites and Priests seale unto it . Now that which was written could not but be a platforme either in Scripture onely , according to the meaning of the exacters of the oath , or some interpretation ; else every man writ his owne covenant and sealed it , which is not like , for they all joyntly sware this covenant ; and the reason of this written , sworne , and sealed covenant , being morall , as is cleare , because of the apostasie of the whole Church , and judgements upon them , for their apostasie , v. 38. And because of all this , we make , and write a sure covenant , saith the Text 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 & in toto hoe ( vertit a a Arias Mont. Arias montanus ) nos excidentes fidelitatem b b Hebraei . Iudaei excudentes faedus fidele , c c Iunius annot. Iunius , pro toto hoc pepigimus constitutionem ; now sinnes , back-slidings , and judgements may be and often are in all the Christian Churches . 2. To sweare to the true religion , the defence and maintenance thereof is a lawfull oath ; as to sweare to any thing that is lawfull , and to lay a new band on our soules to performe holy duties , where we feare a breach , and finde by experience there hath beene a breach , is also a dutie of morall and perpetuall equity ; therefore such a sworne covenant is lawfull : I say not from this place , that it is necessary , that all subscribe with their hands a covenant , because I thinke onely the Princes , Levites , Priests and heads of families did subscribe the covenant , Nehem. 9. 38. but Nehem. 10. 28 , 29. The whole people , all who had separated themselves from the Lands sinne , and their strange wives , even their wives , their sonnes , their daughters , every one having knowledge , and having understanding . V. 29. They clave to their brethren , their Nobles and entered into a curse , and into an oath to walke in Gods Law . If it be replied , that there was in Israel no written covenant drawne up by a man , and put in a mans stile , language , method , and frame , they did sweare to keepe Moses his Law . I answer , when we sweare a covenant , our faith doth not relie upon words , characters , stile of language , or humane method , or any humane respects , but upon the truth of God , in that platforme ; and suppose we should swear and subscribe the Old and New Testament translated into our vulgar Language ; we doe not sweare to the translation , characters , and humane expression ; but to the matter contained in the translation ; and that because Iehovah our Lord hath spoken it in his Word . And if this be a good argument why we cannot sweare a platforme , then should none sweare a covenant at all , or make any holy vow , but those who understand the originall Languages in Hebrew and Greeke ; and yet the characters and imprinting is humane even in the original , so all religious covenants and oathes should be unlawfull .

4. Argum. What a Church or person is to suffer for , or to believe , and obliged to render account of to every one that asketh account of us , that we may sweare , and seale with our hands , because what we are to suffer death for , and the losse of temporall life , for which we owe a reckoning to God by vertue of the ●ixt Commandement , that is a matter of truth which we professe before God and men , and our dying for the truth , is a sort of reall oath , that we are before God professing that truth , is to be preferred to our life .

But we are to suffer ( if God call us ) even death for the true Religion , Revel. 2. 13. Act. 7. 57 , 58. Luk. 21. 15 16. Phil. 1. 20 , 21. ●nd the truth ; and we are obliged to believe , and to give account thereof before all men , and a reason of our faith and hope , 1 Pet: ● , 15. Ergo , we may sweare it .

Argum. 5. If an oath to the true Religion , and forme of wholesome Doctine , be a speciall remedy against back●iding , and a meane to keepe off false and heretical doctrine ; then is such an oath lawfull : but the former is true ▪ Ergo ; The Proposition is cleare ; Gods people say , Nehem. 9. 38. Because of all this ; that is , because they had done wickedly , and were tempted still to doe more , therefore they write and seale a Covenant ; and if false teachers teach , Circumcision must be if we● would be saved , then the Church may , according to Acts 15. condem●e that false doctrine by the Word of God , and set downe Canons which the Churches are to observe ; and what they are to observe as warranted by Gods Word , layeth on bands upon the Conscience , and what layeth on such a band , that wee may binde our selves , by oath , to performe , it being a speciall remedy lawfull against backsliding from the truth .

6. Arg. Our brethren have their grounds and reasons against the swearing of confession common to them , with the Arminians and Socinians , and their Arguments are all one ; for a a Remonst. in scrip . Synodicis pag. 81. Arminians censure the Belgick confession and the Pala●ines Catechisme , and propound thirteene questions against it , as the third question is , An quaecunque dogmata in confessione & Cat●chisme tractantur talia sunt , ut cuilibet Christiano ad salutem creditu necessaria sint . And their seventh question is , If such confessions may be called secundaria fidei norma ; a secundary rule of faith : also all Confessions , say they , b b Remonst. in presat . ● Declarat . suam Confessiones co fine editae , non ut authores earum , testatum facerent quid sit credendum sed quid ipsi crederent . declare That Confessions serve not to teach what we ought to beleeve , but what the Authors of these Confessions did beleeve . Hence they reject all the determinations of the Orthodox Councels , condemning the heresies of Arrius , Eutiches , Macedonius , Apollinaris , Sabelli● , Samosate●us , Pelagius , and all the Oxthodox Confessions of the reformed Churches . Secondly , also upon these grounds they alledge in their Apologie c c Apolog. Rem●str . fol. 6. There be few things to be beleeves , that every sect may be the true Church , so they beleeve some few Articles not controverted amongst Christians , such as these , Th● there is a God , and that the Word of God is true , &c. Thirdly , they will not condemne the Macedonians , Arrians , Anti-trinitar●● , Pelagians , or others , of fundamentall herefies . Fourthly , that one Church of Christians may be made up of Papists , Protestants , Anabaptists , Macedonians , Sabellians , &c. and all sects so they leade a good life , according to the few Articles necessary to salvation , may be saved , and all may be saved of any sect or Religion . Fifthly , that to sweare Declarations , Confessions , Canons of Orthodox Councels , is to take away the liberty of prophesying and growing in the knowledge of the Word of God , and the praying for grace and light of the holy Spirit for the right meaning of Gods Word . Sixthly , that Athanasius spake amisse , when he said of the Creed , that it was to be beleeved of every one who is to bee saved , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and the same is the doctrine of the Socinians , who doe in all these oppose all Confessions of Faith , and all Orthodox Decisions , Canons , and determinations of Sinods . So a a Socinus Respon. & Resp. & Volani pag. 2 22. Socinus rejecteth all Synods , all Confessions and Decisions even of the Church universall . So b b Smalcius refut. lib. de error . Arr. au. 1. c. 1. f. 6. Smalcius cal●eth it a rejecting of the Word of God . And c c Nicolaid . in resut . tract . de Ecclesia c. 9. pag. 75. Theol. Nico●aides saith , That it is enough to know things absolutely necessary for salvation ; and that the Churches determination cannot remove errours and heresies .

Our brethens first Argument against a Nationall Covenant ● , d d Quest. ●8● If the doctrine contained in your platforme of Confession swarve from the Scriptures , then the imposing thereof is so farre unlawfull ; if the doctrine be according to Scripture , the platforme is ●eedlesse , the Scripture being sufficient .

Ans. 1. This is the argument of Arminians , Episcopius saith , e e Episc●pius disp . 32. thes. 2. and expresly f f Smalcius loc. cit . Smalcius , Qui vnlt sensum scripturae ab il●s ( confessionibus ) peti , tacitè deserit scripta Apostolica , & traditiones humanas commendat . And therefore such decisions are ●ay the g g Remonst. Apol. f. 29. Remonstrantes ) Pestes Ecclesiarum & regni An●christi , idest , tyrannidis fulcra & tibicines . Secondly , this Ar●ument may be as well propounded against the preaching of the Word , all printed Sermons , Commentaries , and interpretation of Scripture , as against a Confession : For if the doctrine in Ser●ons bee not agreeable to Scripture , then in so farre as Ministers commend and command it to their hearers , it is unlawf●ll ; if it be agreeable to the Scripture , it is needlesse , the Scriptures ( saith the Socinian Smalcius ) are sufficient .

Our brethren answer , Preaching is an ordinance of God , but a ●atforme of confession is not an ordinance of God .

Answ. A platforme , as it is conceived , in such a stile , me●hod , and characters , and words , is a humane ordinance , Tali ●rie & ordine , and so is preaching ; but we sweare to no plat-●orme in that consideration ; but a platforme according to the truth contained in it , in which sense onely it is sworne unto , is the Word of God , as are systemes of Divinity , ●ermons printed and Preached , and so though preaching be an Ordinanced God , as it is , Rom. 10. 14. yet according to the words , expression , dialect method , or doctrine , it is an humane ordinance ; and so the Argument is against preaching as against our platforme .

Our Brethrens second Argument is ▪ The Platforme abridgeth Christian liberty , to try all things , and so though it be some means of unity , yet it is a dangerous hinderance of some verity , binding men to rest upon their former apprehensions , and knowledge , without libery to better their judgements .

Ans. 1. This in stile of language and truth of words is the very argument of Arminian● . So in their a a Remonstrant . apol. Hoc itaque fundamento se●el 〈◊〉 j●cto , semper in Ecclesia Christi sarta tecta man●●it libertas ( 〈◊〉 ●an-di ) quâ sine periculo in formulas islas ( ●d est fidei cōfessiones ) inquirere , iisque sine periculo contradicere licebit . Preface , and in their b b Apol. Remonst. s 7. Theologiae ipsius ani ma suffocatur atque eliditur , ubi decisiones sunt , quibus constanter sirmiterque haerendum esl . Apology it selfe they say . All liberty of prophecing and disputing against the Orthodox faith is taken away , if men be tied and obliged to decisions and confessions of Churches , and Synods . Yea to make an end of controversies ( saith c c Episcop. disp . 32. Thes. 11. li●i ●m sinem facere circa Religionis capita ( per confessones & cavones synodicos ) aliter quam persuadendo , est tyrannidem invehere in Ecclesiam , l. C. Et libertiu● conscientiarum si non omnino toll●re , saltem vehementer astringere & ligare . Episcopius ) otherwayes then by perswading , is to bring a tyranny into the Church of Jesus Christ , and wonderfully to bind , if not to take away liberty of consciences ; So in their Apology they say , confessions and decisions of Synods imposed by Oath , and to be firmely believed ar● contrary to the prayers of Saints , where they pray , that God would teach them his starutes , and reveale his Law and Testimonies ●● them , and open their Eyes to behold the wonders of Gods Law . But the truth is , though these of Berea did well to try Pauls Doctrine , if it was consonant to the Scriptures , or not . Yet Pauls Doctrine was the determination apostolick of Gods Spirit , to the which they were firmely to adhere , and their judgements are to be bettered , in graduali revelatione creditorum , ●●● revelatione plurium credendorum , in cleare revelation of things revealed . For so the children of God are to grow in grace , and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour , 2 Pet. 3. 14. After Christ is once revealed : but not in believing in a new Christ , or in believing of poynts contrary to the confession of faith .

The Argument presupposeth the Doctrine of the Arminians , that there be a number of points in our confession , of which we have no certainty of faith , that they are Gods truth , but are things controverted , and , being not fundamentall poynts , may be holden , or we may forsake them , as false , after better information . Which indeed maketh our faith of Gods Word , ●o full perswasion , but as the learned professors of Leyden d d

Censure declar ▪ profess , Leyd . in praefa .

Fides ●orari● , vel menstrua stc erit .

say , a faith of an houre , or a month , or a yeare , which we may ●ast away , the next yeare . And this is to deny all confessions and points of truth , with pretence that the Spirit hath revealed new truth : but how are these new revealed truths ( the Revelation whereof wee obtaine by prayer ) rather workes of the spirit of truth ; then the former poynts which wee retract ? No man by this can be rooted and built in the faith , of any thing , except in the faith of things simply fundamentall . By which meanes all poynts at least many of them betwixt us and Papists , Arminia● , Macedonians , Sabellians , Arrians , Anabap●tiste , are matters reconcileable ; and either side may be holden , without hazard of salvation . Neither is this definition of confessions any tyranny . Because confessions are to be believed , in so far , as they are agreable to Gods Word , and lay upon us an obligation secondary onely , yet are they not so loose , as that we may leap from poynts of faith , and make the doctrine of faith arena gladiatoria a fencing field for Gamesters and Fencers . The materiall object of our faith , and the secondary ground and foundation thereof , may be very well , and is , Gods Word ; primary is preaching , confessions , Creeds , Symbols , which are not serie & ordine Scripturae : and yet have wee certainty of Divine faith in these things , because the formall object is , because God so saith in hi● Scripture , and wee believe these with certainty of Divine Faith , under this reduplication , because the Lord hath spoken these quoad sensum , in true meaning , though not in illâ scrie & ordine ; But more of this hereafter .

CHAP. 6. SECT. 6.

Touching Officers and their election .

OUr Author laboureth to prove that Pastors and Doctors are different Officers , which wee will not much improves , but if the meaning be , that they are inconsistent , in one man person , wee are against him . 1. Because the Apostles in their owne persons , and in feeding the flock , 2 Tim. 3. doth both under the name of Overseers and Bishops , and exercised both , as they could , according as they did finde the auditory . 2. Because the formall objects the informing of the judgement , and exhorting are not so different , as that they should be imcompatible , for if God give them gifts both for the Doctors Chaire , and the pastors Pulpit , as hee often doth , what should hinder but the Church may call one and the same man , to both the Pastor and the Doctors Chaire , as hee is able to , overtake both .

Author . 1. Reas. 1 Cor. 12. 8. To one is given a word of wisdom● ( for direction of practice , ) to another a word of knowledge ( for direction of judgement . ) Ans. This proveth they be different gifts and Offices , yet not that they are incompatible in one person , as one may have both gifts given unto him , as is cleare by experience .

2 Reas. Author ib. Hee speaketh of diverse members of the Church , as of diverse members of the naturall body , v. 4. 5. All the members have not one Office , it is the action of the Tongue to speak , not to see . Ans. The comparison holdeth not in all . The eye cannot heare , the eare cannot see , yet the pastor may both see as pastor , and heare and delate to the Church , as the Churches eare , the manners of the scandalous .

3. Reas. Author , If the Apostle speake of severall exercises of severall gifts , but both coincident to the same person or Church office ; why then doth he command the Teacher to waite on teaching , and the Exhorter upon exhorting ? One who hath a gift of giveing Almes , and shewing mercy , is not commanded to wait upon Almes giving , unlesse it be his office , as well as his gift . Ans. It is not fit that the Doctor should attend the pastorall duties , except he be a pastor also , and have both gift and office , but having gifts for both , he may attend both , as the Church calleth him to both .

Author . Teaching and exhorting flow from severall gifts , and they are seldome found in one in eminency . Ans. Then where they are found in one in eminency ( as sometimes they are ) either hath God given a Talent , for no use , which is against the Wisdome of Gods dispensation , or then hee who hath gifts for both , may discharge both , as hee may and can through time and strength of body . But wee contend not with our brethren in this , seeing they confesse , he that is gifted for both , may attend both .

CHAP. 7. SECT. 7.

Of Ruling Elders .

WE subscribe willingly to what our Author saith , for the Ruling Elders . office of ruling Elders in the Church .

For Paul , Rom. 12. 8. from foure principall acts requisite in Christs house and body , v. 6 , 7 , 8. Teaching , Exhorting , Giveing of Almes , R●ling , maketh foure ordinary officers , Teachers , Pastors , Deacons and Elders .

Opposite to the office of ruling Elders , object , that by Rulers may be understood , Governours of Families . Ans. Families as they are such , are not Churches , but parts of the Church , and cleare it is that the Apostle Speaketh of Christs Body , the Church in that place . 5. As we have many members in one body , &c.

They Object that Paul speaketh of severall gifts , not of publick Offices in the Church , for he speaketh of all the power and actions , of all the members of the Body of Christ ; now the offices alone are not the body , but all the multitude of believers .

Ans. This cannot well be answered , by these , who make all the believers governours , and a generation of Kings and Teachers : because it is expresly said , v. 4. all members have not the same office . Ergo , they are not all to attend ruling , and to rule with diligence . 2. 〈◊〉 is false that he speaketh not of Officers , and publick Officer . Hee who speaketh of reigning doth indeed speak of a King , as he who speaketh of exhorting which is the specifick act of a pastor , speaketh of a pastor . The place , ●1 Cor. 12. 28. 29. Is cleare for Ruling Elders : but some say , that governours are but arhiters , which Paul biddeth the Corinthians set up in the Church for decyding of civill controversies . 2. Cor. 6. that they goe not to Law one against another ▪ before heathen Judges .

Ans. Paul commandeth to obey Judges , but never to set up a new order of Judges in their roome . 2. These arbitees we●● not governours to command , but rather faithfull Christians to counsell , and remove controversies , or Christian reconcilers to hinder them to goe to the Law , one with another before infi●●● judges . 3. The Apostle is speaking here of such Officers as Christ hath set in the Church , as the Church and Kingdom of Christ , but these civill arbitrators , are no Church-Officers , ●● Tim. 5. 17. The Elders who rule well are worthy of double honour , &c. This place speaketh cleare for ruling Elders .

The adversaries say : here are meant Deacons to whom are allowed stipends , for either here , or elsewhere wages are allowed for Deacons .

Answ. 1. Paul would not speake so honorably of Deacons , as to allow them the worth of a double honorable reward . Yea Gods Word purteth the Deacons out of the roll of Rulers and governours in Gods house , as having nothing to doe by Acts 6. v. 2. their office to labour in the Word and Prayer , but are in Gods wisdome set lower to attend Tables , nor doth the word call them Elders , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in relation to the Church but onely in relation to their owne family and house . 2 Tim. 3. 12. their office is an office of meere service of Tables . 2. He is a labouring Elder worthy of wages , that the Apostle speaketh of here , as , v. 18. The Deaconship being to receive the mercy and charity , which is almes , and not debt , cannot be such an office as taketh up the whole man , so as hee must live upon the Churches charges . 3. Bilson a a Bilson . de gube● nat. Eccles. c. 0. p. 179. a man partiall in this cause , against the minde of all the ancients ( saith Didoclavius b b Didoclav . in altar Damascen . p. 918. giveth this interpetation . But it is seconded with no warrant of Gods Word , for Governours and Deacons are made two species of officers , Rom. 12. 8. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 he who ruleth with diligence , and he who hath mercy with chearefulnesse . And two opposite species are not predicated , the one of the other . And if well governing , Rom. 12. be ●ell teaching and diligent exhorting , all are confounded in that Text , where the Apostle marshalleth the officers and their severall exercises so accurately .

Nor can hee meane here Bishops so old that they are not now ab●e to labour in the word and doctrine , for then pasto●s for their age and inhability to preach , should because of their age and infirmity , deserve lesse honour and reward , then the yonger who are able to labour in the word and doctrine . This is crosse to the sift Commandement , which addeth honour and double honour to age , and gray haires , being found in the way of righteousnesse . 2. Against Justice , that because yeares and paines in Gods Service , hath made them aged , for that they are to have lesse honour and reward : whereas they deserve the double ; rather then that the younger should be preferred to them .

Nor. 3. Can the Apostles meaning be , that these who rule well that lead an exemplarily holy life , are worthy of honour , especially painefull preachers . Because 1. A person is never called a labourer , and worthy of hire , as the Oxe that treadeth out the Corne , because of holinesse of life , especially the Church ●s not to give stipend to a pastor , for his holy life . 2. Their life should be exemplarily holy , who did not labour in the word and doctrine , that is , we have a pastor passing holy in his life , but he cannot preach , or keepeth an ill conscience in his calling , because he is lazy and a loyterer in preaching . 3. What Word of God , or dialect in the word expresseth a holy life , by well gover●ing , for a holy life is the sanctity of mans conversation be he a private , or a publick man . But to govern well , is the paraphase of a good Governour and officer , in the Greeke tongue or any other Language .

Nor. 4. Can the Apostle understand by labourers in the Word and Doctrine ( as Bilson a a Bilson . de gubern . p. 183. saith ) such as w●nt thorough the Earth , and made j●urnies , as Apostles and Evangelists did , to plant visit and confirme Churches , and by these who govern well , such as labour indeed in the Word and Doctrine , but are fixed to a certaine place .

I answer , Then the well ruling Elders are not labourers in the Word and Doctrine ; for out of Question one of the species of Elders here mentioned , doe not labour in Word and Doctrine at all . But by this interpretation , both labour in the Word and Doctrine ; but the one in a fixed place , the other by Apostolike journeys through the World . And the object of one of these Offices , to wit , the Word and Doctrine differenceth the one from the other , whose object must be not the Word and Doctrine ; for word and Doctrine need not to be governed , but the Church , and persons in Church-state need to be governed .

2. There is no warrant of the Word , that to labour in the Word is proper to the Apostles and Evangelists , journeying through the World , seeing ( as a a Didoclavius altar . Damascen . p. 921. Didoclavius observeth● ) the same word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , is ascribed to those who in a fixed place labour , 1 Thes. 5. 12 , 13. Who labour amongst you . Yea , and it is taken for any travell of minde or body in the Word . 3. He is not here to deny , nor can the Apostle deny , but travelling Apostles and Evangelists did governe well , especially in planting Elders in every Church , and governing the planted Churches , but he cannot speake of travelling to the wearying of the body : when the object of travelling is exprest , to wit , ( in Word and Doctrine ) which object is not given to the well ruling Elder .

A more speciall consideration of Ruling Elders , Deacons , and Widdowes . 1 Tim. 5. 17.

AFter the Apostle hath spoken of Widdowes , and their service in the Church , he passeth from them to speake of excellenter Officers , to wit , of the ruling and the teaching Elders . There be many interpretations ( say the opposers of ruling Elders ) given upon this place ; and therefore it is hard to build a new Church-officer on a Text so obnoxious to various debates .

Answ. This would be concludent in part , if the nature of the Text were the native seminary of these various interpretations ; but most of these debates arise from the wits of parties interressed in the question , such as Papists , Prelates , or deniers of all Church-government . But I provoke to all the Fathers , especially to Chrysostome and the Greeke Fathers , who have expounded the place , if any ever did deny but this place holdeth forth two sorts of Elders , though I grant they vary concerning the Elders , which labour not in the word and doctrine . And this interpretation , Elders who rule well are worthy of double honour , especially 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , id est , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , because , or upon this consideration and respect , that they labour in the word and doctrine , was never knowne till of late . But we desire these five circumstances in the Text to be considered ; for we build not our interpretation on any one , or two , or three of them , but we desire they may be looked on copulatively ; for I confesse a participle being attributum , or quasi attributum , though doubled or multiplied , doth not multiply subjects , because two , six , an hundred attributes may agree to one subject ; and the Scripture and Greeke language can well beare this . As Col. 2. 5. I am present with you in the spirit , ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) rejoycing and beholding your order . One Paul onely did both rejoyce and behold . And 2 Pet. 3. 11. What manner of persons ought we to be , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , looking for and hastening unto the comming of the day of God . Here is no multiplying of persons . 2. I confesse also , that two articles 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , doe not multiply subjects , or make a distinction of divers sorts of persons . As Revel. 2. 1. These things saith he , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , it is one and the same Jesus who holdeth the seven Starres in his right hand , and who walketh in the middest of the Golden Candlestickes . But we desire that the confluence of these five may be looked unto : as 1. there is a genus , a generall attribute , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Elders ; and this agreeth both to well ruling Elders , and to those which labour in the word and doctrine . 2. There be here two participles , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 3. Two articles , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 4. Two species , two kinds of Elders , under the generall attribute of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . As the one species or kind is , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , such Elders as rule well ; and the other kinde of Elders be 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , such as labour in the Word , as Pastors ; and in Doctrine , as Doct●rs . And fiftly , which is most considerable , here be two Participles , two Articles , two speciall Elders divided and separated 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , by the discretive particle 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And I provoke to all the Authours of the Greeke Language , Demost●enes , Isocrates , Aristophanes , Pindarus , &c. to the Septuagint in the Old Testament , to the whole New Testament for one parallel place , where one and the same subject or kinde is so expressed , except you play foule play to the Text : also that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is a particle of discretion and multiplication of divers kinds , to me is cleare , ●● Ti●us 1. vers. 11. There ●● many unruly and vaine talkers , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , especially those of the Circumcision , if 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the particle ( especially ) doe not divide two sorts of vaine talkers , some vaine talkers of the Circumcision , and some vaine talkers not of the Circumcision ; then must this particle conjoyne them , and make no vaine talkers , save onely these of the circumcision ; and Paul shall say then , there be many unruly and vaine talking persons of the circumcision , but especially those of the circumcision ; which non-sense is not to be ascribed to the spirit of God , so 1 Tim. 4. 10. Who is the Saviour of all men , especially of believers , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . It 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 doe not inferre that Christ is the Saviour of some who believe , and in a generall sence a Saviour of some who believe not ; then must Christ bestow one and the same salvation on all men , and also on beleevers , which neither Arminians nor common sence can affirme , 1 Tim. 5. 8. He who provideth not for his olvne , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , especially for those of his own house . If it be not required that a believer provide for two sorts , to wit , these of his family , children and servants in an especiall manner ; and for friends also , who are not of his owne house ; then will Paul have the believer to provide for none but for his owne house , which doth belie the Text , which saith , he must provide for all his owne , and in a speciall manner for his owne house ; now if he be to provide for them , for this respect because they are of his owne house , then by this Text he is not to provide for his brethren , sisters , and blood-friends , because they are not of his owne as members of his house , or his owne , Gal. 6. 10. Let us doe good to all , but especially , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to those who are of the houshold of faith . Ergo , we are to doe good to some who are of the houshold of faith , and to some who are not of the houshold of faith ; except you say the Text doth beare onely , that we are to doe good to none , save onely to those who are of the houshold of faith , which is non-sense , Phil. 4. 22. All the Saints , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , salute you , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 especially those of Caesars house . Hence two sorts of Saints saluted the Philippians , some Saints of Caesars house , and some not of Caesars house ; this you must say if you will not have the Text to beare either that no Saints did salute the Philippians , save onely the Saints of Caesars house , contrary to sense ; for the Text saith , All the Saints ( here with me at Rome ) salute you . Otherwaies you must say , that the reason and motive why the Saints saluted the Philippians , was because they were Saints of Caesars house , as you say , the speciall cause and respect why the well ruling Pastor is worthy of double honour , is because he laboureth in the Word and ' Doctrine ; for so you expound it . Now this is two waies false , for 1. this can be no respect and cause why all the Saints saluted the Philippians , except all the Saints which did salute them were onely the Saints of Caesars house ; and so both the argument should be false , and the conclusion false , for they were not all of Caesars house who saluted the Philippians . Nor 2. was this the reason why they did salute them ; for the Saints did salute the Philippians upon this ground of Christian relation , because they were Saints , and loved one another in Christ , and not upon this civill and common consideration , because they were Caesars Domestickes , and Courtiers with the Emperour . So a Tim. 4. 13. Bring with thee the cloake which I left at Troas , and bookes , but 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 especially the parchments . And thus doe also the Hebrews speake , Prov. 11. 31. Retribution shall be made to the just , far more to the wicked . Here be clearely two sorts of retributions , and two kinds of persons which are recompenced . And Prov. 17. 7. The 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Prov. 21. v. 27. li●s of honour are not seemely for a foole , much lesse is falsity to a liberall man , or to a Prince . I know these examples doe not every way come home to our point , but they prove that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is to the Hebrews a note of discretion ; as also , ● Psalm . 31. v. 11. is even as 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is to the Greekes . It is true , where a genus and a species , a generall and a speciall under that are set downe , ( for as much as genus & species non faci●nt numerism ) there is no need that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 or the particle ( especially ) should be as a note of dicretion or multiplication . As if ( I should say , a Iudge is to be honoured , but especially judging righteously , ) I should not inferre that there are two sorts of Judges ; but the case is not so here , because two species are expresly set downe , to wit , those who rule well , and those who labour in the Word and Doctrine . And if I should say , ( a Iudge judging righteously for all , is worthy of much honour , especially he that judgeth righteously for the Widow and the Orphane ) I should in this hold forth , either two sorts of righteous Judges , or then I should say no other , but he who judgeth righteously for a●● , is to be honoured , especially he who judgeth righteously for these , and these comprehended under this ( all . ) Thirdly , I should in that also say that there be two things , though not two sorts of judges , worthy of much honour , to wit , the office of a Iudge , and his equall and unpartiall judging are both worthy of double honor . But Paul is not here allowing honour to the office in abstracto , and in a generall notion , but to the officer in specie and in concreto , who doth rule well , and labour in the word and doctrine .

Object . 2. But Paul doth here understand by him that ruleth well , the civill Magistrate .

Answ. When Paul is here speaking of the Oeconomy of Gods house , it is not consonant to the Text , that he would instruct Timothy of the wages due to the Emperour Nero , and yoice the Emperour in one verse , with the Pastor and the Doctor labouring in the word and doctrine , and prove from the Law that the mouth of Nero should not be muzled . Nor doth the Word give this word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to Magistrates , but some higher stiles , calling them 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Tit. 3. 1. Principalities and powers , Rom. 13. 1. Secondly , this Text would prove that double wages were due to Paul above Nero the Emperour , and that Pastors are more to bee honoured then Emperours and Kings . Thirdly , the Text speaks clearly of two parallel species of Bilson de Guber . c. 10. p. 179. Didoclavius Altar . Damascen . p. 920. Elders in the Church , but the Magistrate is no parallel line with preaching Elders .

Object . 3. By those who rule well , are understood Deacons , who take care of the poore .

Answ. Didoclavius observeth , that Deacons are never called Rulers , but distinguished from them , Rom. 12. 8. Secondly , the well ruling here taketh up the halfe of the Pastors Office , and all that belongeth thereunto , except labouring in the word and doctrine ; as to receive accusations against an Elder , to judge and governe with the Pastor , to visit the sicke , to exhort and rebuse in a judiciall way ; but to serve Tables , and to take care of the poore onely , is the least and most inferiour part of well-governing of Gods house , and is but a care for their bodies : Whereas to rule well , is an Ecclesiasticall Magistracy , to goe in and out before Gods people , to watch for their soules , as those which must give an accompt , Hebr. 13. 17. 1 Thess. 5. 12. The Deacon careth for the body onely , and the Deacon , that Bilson and others would have with him , is neither in this place , nor in all Gods Word , as we shall heare .

O● . 4. By these who rule well , are understord , Bishops , who for age , cannot preach yet rule well .

Ans. Surely these who have laboured in the Word and Doctrine , and spent their strength in painefull preaching , and now , in old age , rule well , cannot in reason bee thought worthy of lesse honour and wages , then preaching Elders , but above them , as emeriti milites are not to be degraded : and if they have never laboured in the Word and Doctrine , they being Bishops , by office , must be dumb dogs , and worthy of no honour at all . 2. They cannot rule well , as Pastors , and yet be dumbe , and not labour in the word . 3. The Text speaketh not of Elders , aetate , by age , but of Elders , Officio , by office , who labour , as work-men in a vineyard , v. 18.

Ob. 5. By ruling well he meaneth a holy life , so as he meaneth not only that Pastors should live holily , but also preach painfully .

Answ. Didoclavius answereth , that then all that live holily , should have stipend , as workmen ; and certainly if Paul had spoken nothing of these who labour in the word and Doctrine , yet the Text doth hold forth that these who rule well , and doe not labour in the Word and Doctrine are worthy of honour ; for the comparative here , or superlative degree , doth well inferre the positive degree . But 1. Ministers shall bee worthy of honor , though they preach not . 2. The arguments which I brought , to prove , and that undeniably , that there be two sorts of Elders , in the Text fight against this sense , which inferreth that their is but one sort of preaching Elders here , to whom double honor is due , for two respects , to wit , holinesse of life , and painfull preaching . 3. Holinesse of life in all Gods Word , is never expressed by well governing , which is a worke of a publick Church-officer , as is cleare . Rom. 12. 8. 1 Thess. 5. 12. 13. holinesse of life is common to all private Christians , yea and to women , who cannot rule , nor rule well .

Ob. 6. The Rulers here ought to have wages , as workmen , but your Elders have no wages . Ergo , your Elders are not in this Text.

Answ. That is not concluded , which is in question ; for the assumption should be , but your Elders ought to have no wages , and are worthy of no honour , ) and the assumption is onely de facto , ( they have none ) 2. This argument might prove that a noble man , called to be a Minister , if he should take no stipend , were not a lawfull Minister ; and Paul then was no lawfull pastor , at Corinth , because hee refused stipend ; but stipend is due to both Pastor and Elder , and in the case of scandall , it is due to neither of them , hic & hunc .

Ob. 7. If there be two sorts of Elders here , there must be two sorts of Bishops , for Presbyter and Bishop are synonyma , and one and the same , as is cleare , Tit. 1. 6 , 7. Acts 20. 17. They are called Elders , and v. 28. Bishops . But we cannot admit of two sorts of Bishops : some to rule , and some to preach , that were Antichristian .

Answ. Though there be two sort of Elders here , it doth not follow that there be two sorts of Bishops : and it is not proved because Elder and Bishop are not proved to be synonyma from the alledged places , genus & species , as a living Creature and a man are not synonyma , but have different definitions . Gladius & ensis have the same definitions , as a man and a discoursing creature are synonyma . An Elder is a generall , and a Bishop a sort of Elder , and an Apostle is an Elder , and so Peter tearmeth himselfe , 1 Pet. 5. 1. an Elder : ●u● Divines say that a preaching Elder , and a Bishop are synonyma , one and the same , and synonyma non faciunt mum●rum , as Gladius & Ensis : but they never taught that an Elder in general and a Bishop , are synonyma and the same , nor doe the places , Acts 20. Tit. 1. prove it ; for if they be all preaching Elders , to whom Paul preached at Ephesus , Acts 20. as the Text seemeth to make them , Acts 20 , 28 , 29. then the Elders that Paul called for v. 17. are preaching Elders , and the same with Bishops v. 28. and Tit. 1. Paul willeth Titus to ordaine Elders , that is , both preaching & ruling Elders , and there he giveth an instance in preaching Elders , or Bishops , and sheweth what sort of men Bishops should be . 2. If there be two sorts of Elders , 1 Tim. 5. 17. then should there be two sorts of Bishops ; I distinguish the proposition , then are there two sorts of preaching Bishops , I deny the proposition in this sense , but if the meaning be , there be two species of Bishops , or Overseers , one ruling Overseers , and another preaching Bishops , we shall not contend for the word , if we agree upon the thing , though I much doubt , if the ruling Elder in the Scripture , come under the name of Bishop or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . 3. This objection falleth under the stroake of the arguments proving that there be two sorts of Elders in this Text , and how they can bee answered , I know not .

Ob. 8. That office is not in Scripture , whose Characters , qualities , and notes are not specified in Scripture , as the Characters of a Deacon are , 1 Tim. 3. and of a Bishop ibid. But the Characters , qualites and notes of a ruling Elder are not in the Scripture , Ergo , &c.

Answ. 1. I deny the major proposition ; for then , because the Scripture saith not , an Apostle should be blameles , the husband of one wife , vigilant , sober , and thus and thus , and an Evangelist should be thus and thus , and a prophet should be thus and thus qualified , therefore Apostles , Evangelists , Prophets , are not in Scripture . It is true these were but temporall offices , yet it is enough to take off and breake the argument , for these temporary ●ffices , must be no lesse warranted , by the word , except they be unlawfull , then the offices that are of perpetuall indurance . 2. I distinguish the major proposition , That office is not in Scripture , whose characters are not in Scripture , neither in one particular place , expresly and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , it is not true ; for baptism : in no one place is so expresly set downe in Scripture , from all its Characters in particular , as is the Supper of the Lord , which is described , Mat. 26. Luk. 22. Mark . 14. 1 Cor. 11. in the Elements , sacred actions , prayer , consecration , words of institution , efficient , forme , end , gesture , &c. Yet is baptisme for that not excluded from the classe and number of Gods ordinances and seales , or , that office is not in Scripture whose Characters are not in Scripture , nether in divers places of Scripture , nor by good consequence , and lawfull analogy with other its fellow offices , that I yeeld willingy : but now the assumption is false : for as baptisme by analogy is described in many of its Characters , as prayer , consecration of the Elements , end &c. when the Supper of the Lord is described , making a just proportion betwixt baptisme and the other Sacrament , and by other places of Scripture , so is the ruling Elder in his characters described ; when the Bishop his fellow-officer is described . 3. The assumption also is false ; for the ruling Elder is described out of this Text. 1. negatively , that hence is gathered , by strong consequence , as is said , that he is an Elder who laboureth not in the Word and Doctrine . 2. Hee is described affirmatively , for an office is sufficiently described , when the specifick acts thereof are set downe , as a man is described when wee say , hee is a Creature who doth discourse , and make use of Reason ; so is this Elder described , when wee say it is his office to rule well , 1 Tim. 5. 17. hee is a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and a government which Christ hath 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 instituted in the body , 1 Cor. 12. 28. and he is Rom. 12. 4. an Organ and member of Christs body , whose office it is to rule , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 with diligence , Rom. 12 , 8.

Ob. 9. But it is but a generall , that he rule , we have not these wherein the particulars of his ruling , consist .

Ans. If this be strong , you have not , 1 Tim. 3. the particulars of the pastorall teaching , but onely the generals , a Bishop must be apt to teach . Yet in other places we have the particulars , a● instructing , rebuking , confuting , convincing ; so what ever the Scripture saith of the preaching Elders ruling , that same is saith of the ruling Elders ruling , seeing the ruling Elder is the assistant officer to help the preaching Elder , and both of them with the Doctor are to rule the House of God .

Ob. 10. But if ruling be the specifick and essentiall note of the ruling Elder , he cannot be a speciall officer different from the preaching Elder , for what is essentiall to one species cannot agree to another , and what constituteth one species , doth not agree to another .

Answ. This connexion may well be denied , and it is said well by one ; The ruling Elder solùm regit , doth onely governe , sed non solus regit , but he doth not govern his alone , but with the Pastor and Doctor . From these things I infer that as this is not a good consequence , Mat. 26. Luk. 22. Mark . 14. the Spirit of God doth set downe the Lords Supper in all its materialls , and passeth over Baptisme in silence , and goeth to another subject ; Ergo , Baptisme is not the other Sacrament of the New Testament so neither is this a good consequence , ( Paul , 1 Tim. 3. Discribeth the Bishop , and over skippeth the ruling Elder , passing to the Deacon ; Ergo , the ruling Elder is not an Ordinance of God ) for while hee describeth the Bishop , he teacheth what an one , both the Doctor , and ruling Elder should be , by cleare analogy , and it had beene superfluous for the Holy Ghost to say more , then he doth . And by this wee may answer to what is tenthly objected , The ruling Elder is omitted in Christs roll , Eph. 4. 11. Ergo , there is no such officer . Answ. It followeth in no sort negatively , from one particular place of Scripture , Rev. 1. It is said onely God hath made us Kings and Priests unto God ; Ergo , he hath not made us Prophets also , the contrary is , Esai . 54. 13. Ioh. 6. 45. so because , It is life eternall to know the Father , and the Sonne , Joh. 17. Socinians collect ; Erge , the holy spirit is not God , because no mention is made of him , in this place . 2. In this place Paul ennumerateth offices necessary rather for planting Churches , then for ruling Churches already constituted and planted : Miracles and Tongues are ad benè esse ; Elders and Deacons are not named here , because they are for the leading on of the Church , and the body already set up in a visible frame , and therefore reckoned out , Rom. 12. 4. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. and consider , I pray you , how uncertaine and lubrick a way it is to pin Gods Spirit , and to fetter him to any one place in his enumerations , Behold , Rom. 12. 8 ▪ all the ordinary officers are expressed , and yet Apostles , Evangelists , Miracles , Tongues are omitted , all which are ennumerated , 1 Cor. 12 28 , 29. yet are specifick acts of Prophets , Teachers omitted , 1 Cor. 12. at lest onely spoken of in generall under the notion of hearing , seeing , walking , and Rom. 12. they be more particularly set downe . And 1. Tim. 3. Phil. 1. 1. onely Bishops and Deacons are mentioned , and governments , and Elders ruling well ●mitted ; and also all the extraordinary officers are omitted , and yet mentioned , 1 Cor. 12. 18 , 29. and Miracles , Tongues , Deacons , Governments are omitted , Eph. 4. 11. and , 1 Tim. 5. 17. Preachers , Rulers , Doctors are expressed , Deacons and extraordinary officers , Apostles , Evangelists , &c. passed over in silence :

Ob. 11. The Keyes are not given to this ruling Elder , Ergo , he is no lawfull officer : the antecedent is proved , the keyes of jurisdiction , because they can operate nothing , but by the Key of knowledge , cannot be given to this new officer , now the key of knowledge is given only to the preaching Elder .

Ans. All dependeth upon this false proposition ; To these only are the keyes of jurisdiction , and power of binding and loosing given , to whom the keyes of knowledge are given , ) for though the one key worke nothing without the other , yet the proposition is not from this made good , for the key of knowledge , and the power of pastorall preaching is given , uni subjectivè , non unitati nisi objectivè , to one man as to the subject , and to the Church , for her salvation and good , as for the end and object ; and the Pastor being once ordained a Pastor , may use these Keyes , quoad specificationem independently , for hee may preach mercy and wrath , not waiting the Churches suffrages , Et potestas clavium quoad jurisdictionem data ●st ecclesiae & subjectivè & objectivè , & data est non uni , sed unitati : but the power of the keyes , in censures , for binding and loosing is given to no one mortall man , but to the Church , both as to the subject , and the object . I meane the Ministeriall Church ; and not one man Pastor , Pope , o● prelate may use the Keyes , the Church hath them , and can onely validly use them .

Ob. 12. But how is it proved that Ruling Elders are of divine institution ?

Ans. God hath placed , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Ruling Elders in the body , as is said , 1 Cor. 12. 28. and this is , Rom. 12. 4. compared with v. 8. an Office that Christ hath appointed , and as these places prove the exhorter or pastor to be of Divine institution , and the Apostle , Teacher , Prophet , 1 Cor. 12. 28. and the Elder who laboureth in the Word and Doctrine , to be an instituted worke-man worthy of wages , 1 Tim. 5. 17 , 18. So must they prove the man who ruleth well , and with diligence , to be of divine appointment .

Ob. 13. But the ruling in diligence , Rom. 12. 8. and the governments , 1 Cor. 12. 28. are generalls , and so cannot constitute a speciall office , in the body : for it is against logick , that that which is generall , and common to all the officers , can constitute a species , or a speciall kind :

Answ. This obligeth the opponent , to teach , what is meant by governors , whether Magistrates , but these be not an office in Christs Body as is here said , Rom. 12. 4. and 1 Cor. 12. 14 , 15. or doe they meane masters of families ? but these be parts of heathen societies , as well as of Christian , and a Family as it is such , is not the Church . 3. Nor can hee meane here of Preachers , for Rom. 12. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 28. the exhorter and the ruler with diligence , the Teacher , and Prophet , and governments are clearely differenced , as different organs of the body , Eye , Eare , Hand , Foote , 1 Cor. 12. 14 , 15. Rom. 12. 4. nor (4) can they understand Rulers in generall : for , a genus , a generall doth not exist , or have actuall subsistence , but in some determinnate species ; as a living Creature doth not subsist but in man , or in some specifick nature of Birds and Beasts : now God is sayd to place these governments in the body , 1 Cor. 12. 28. even as the Eye , and Eare and Hand are seated in the body , 1 Cor. 12. 16 , 17 , 18. Now as a generall Eye , or an Organ in generall is not placed in the body , but such a determinat Organ , an Eye , an Eare , an Hand , a Foot ; so neither hath the wisdome of Christ appointed a governor in generall , and left it to the Churches discretion to specifie what this governour shall be , whether a Prelate , a Pastor , a ruling Elder : but as God hath not set Teachers in the body in generall , but hee hath placed such and such species , Apostles , not Popes , Evangelists , not Cardinalls ; so must hee have determined such and such Governors , ruling Elders , rather then a certaine Creature named a Diocesan prelate , an uncouth beast in the holy Scripture .

A very Jesuite , Salmeron , saith , by the two Elders hee meaneth ,

Salmeron in 1 Tim. 5. 17. disp. 15. Tom. 15. Ambrosius in 1 Tim.

Chrysost. hom . 15. Estius , comment . 1 Tim. 5.

1 Tim. 5. 17. ( apertè sermonem esse de presbyteris & Episcopis ) of Elders and Pastors , and with that of Ambrosius , which wee all know to be ruling Elders , who were out of use in the Church , by the negligence , or rather by the pride of preaching Elders , forte Doctorum d●sidiâ , aut magis superbiâ ; and we are not to thinke , Chrysostom was ignorant of his mother Tongue , and hee findeth 1 Tim. 5. 17. two sorts of Elders in this place , and a popish Expositor Estius , porrò manefeste Colligitur ex hac sententia , fuisse , etiam apostolorum tempore , quosdam in ecclesia presbyteros , qui & benè praeessent , & duplici honore digni essent , nec tamen labotarent in verbo & Doctrinâ , neque id hodierni sectarii negant ; and all the haeresie that he layeth on Calvin , in this point , is that Calvin maketh these lay-men ; And Estius maketh a question what these Elders were , whether they be the Cardinalls , which the pope hath , or the Canonicall Elders , which their Bishops use as councellors in grave matters , or Elders which rule well , and labour not in the Word and Doctrine , such as were in the Apostles time , or rather such as did help the Bishops in offering sacrifice , and in administrating the Sacraments ; or if they be such as rule the people , but cannot preach , such as Alipius and Val●rius were in Augustines time ; so Estius knoweth not what these Elders bee , but inclineth to make them elders to the Apostles , in the administration of the Sacraments .

Ob. 14. But Rom. 12. 8. the Apostle speaketh of divers gifts , as v. 6. having then gifts , differing according to the grace , that is given to us , whether prophecy , let us prophecy , &c. Ergo , the Apostle doth not speak of divers offices . 2. One and the same man may both teach , and exhort , and therefore Pastor and Doctor are not here differenced . 3. The Deacons office shall be here described , by the interjection of the ruling Elder , but the two acts of the deacon , which is to give with simplicity , and , to shew mercy with cheerefulnesse , and which is an insolent order , therfore the Apostle doth not here ennumerate divers offices .

Answ. There is no better consequence in this , to say , he speaketh of divers gifts ; Ergo , he speaketh not of divers offices , then to say , he speaketh of divers faculties and habilities in the naturall body , as of an hability of seeing , hearing ; Ergo , hee acknowledgeth not divers members with divers offices , as the Eye to see , the E●re to heare , yea the contrary is rather a good consequence ; and the Text is cleare that he speaketh of divers offices , v. 4. for as we have many members in one body , and all members have not the same office . So we being many , are one body , in Christ , and every one members , one of another . Yea the Text holdeth forth these five to us to be distinctly considered . 1. That the Church is one body organicall , having divers members . 2. That there be divers gifts of the spirit in this body , as is cleare , Rom. 12. v. 3. 4 , 5. (3) That there be divers offices , and places and functions in this body , which the Apostle excellently divideth into two generalls according to the necessities of the members of Christs body . Now in generall this necessity is two fold , one respecting the soule , and for this , hee hath ordained , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 prophecy , and for the bodily necessity , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Ministery and Service . v. 6. and v. 7. and these two having set downe in abstracto , hee commeth to divide them , in concreto , according to their severall offices and functions , which

be foure in the Text. 1. The Teacher , or Doctor . v. 7. 2. The Exhorter , or Pastor . v. 8. 3. The ruler , or governing Elder . also ● . 8. 4. The Distributer , who is to shew me ●● on the poore , or the Deacon also . v. 8.

Then (4) the Apostle doth set downe the severall specifick actions and operations of these offices , and that againe

two wayes . 1. in generall . 1. Prophecying . v. 6. 2. Ministering . v. 7.

2. He setteth down the operations and specifick actions of the

foure offices in particular , as 1. Teaching , in the Doctor . v. 7. 2. Exhorting , in the pastor . v. 8. 3. Ruling in , the Elder . v. 8. 4. Distributing , and shewing mercy , in the Deacon . v. 8.

Then (5) he setteth downe the manner and holy qualification of these operations , and exercises of their offices ; and that also two wayes . 1. In generall . 2. In the foure particulars in

generall . 1. In Prophecying ; but how ? according to the proportion of Faith v. 6. 2. Ministering , and how ? By being given or addicted to Ministering v. 7. 2. He setteth them downe in foure particulars , as 1. The Doctor or Teacher , is to be in , or given to Teaching . v. 7. 2. The pastor , is to be in Exhorting , Sedulous and painefull . v. 8. 3. The ruling Elder , to rule , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 with diligence . v. 8. 4. The Deacon is to distribute , and shew mercy , on the Sick , poore , imprisoned , stranger , distracted , in simplicity , in Chearefulnesse . v. 8.

Also though it be true , that one and the same man may both teach and exhort , and the comparison of the naturall body doth not in all things hold , for one member cannot both be the eye to see , and the eare to heare , but both are here a sort of eye to the Church ; yet hath Christ made the Pastor and the Doctor different . ( It is needlesse to dispute , if they differ in nature , and if it be a confounding of Christs order , that one be both , when Christ hath given gifts for both to one man ) for first , the Word of God doth difference them ; secondly , we know that many have gifts to teach , who are but dull and weake to perswade and worke upon the affection , as is observed amongst the Fathers . Augustine excelled in teaching and disputing , Chryostome in exhorting . Salmeron observeth , that there Thomas Aquinas was Salmeron comment . in Rom 12. v. 8. eminent in informing the understanding , and Bonaventura excellent for moving the affections . And many are fitted to worke on the affections , as Pastors , who are not able to teach as Doctors in the Schools . So hath Chrysostome and Theodoret observed upon these words , Rom. 12. 7 , 8.

Nor doth it move me much , that Paul speaketh twice in one verse of the Deacon , it is not unusuall to the Spirit of God in divers Scriptures so to doe , as Prov. 1. Prov. 2. Psal. 119.

How dangerous it is to affirme , that all the Officers are not set downe in Gods Word , we may be taught by Papists , for Estius Estius com . in 1 Cor. 12. Idem com . in Ephes. c. 4. 11. Salmeron in 1 Cor. 12. 28. giveth a reason , why the Apostle setting downe , 1 Cor. 12. 28. the Officers in Gods house , hath omitted the Pope ; he answereth , the Apostle is not here setting downe the degrees of the Hirarchicall Order , for then he should have set downe Bishops , Presbyters , Deacons , which be parts of that Order , but onely he setteth downe some chiefe members of the Church , indued with rare gifts , and commenting on Ephes. 4. he saith , The Pope is set downe under the name of Pastors and Doctors , because he sendeth Pastors and Doctors to all the world ; and this was the reason why the Prelate was reputed a Pastor , and the onely Pastor , because though it was too base for him to preach ; yet he preached in and through poore Presbyters whom he sent . And Salmeron moveth the question , why 1 Cor. 12. 28. the Pope , Cardinals , and Patriarches are omitted in this place ; and we say , Why are Bishops , Archbishops , Primates , Metropolitans , Deanes , Archdeacons , Chancellours , Officials , &c. never once mentioned in the Word of God . But Salmeron answereth , 1. They are implicitely set downe here , and under the name of helps , opitulations ; Paul hath instituted Deans , Archdeans , and the foure lesser orders . And what else doe divers answer , who teach that government 1 Cor. 12. 28. is but a generall ; and the Church , in a prudentiall way , under this may substitute and introduce such and such species of governments as they shall finde convenient , as ruling Elders , ruling Prelates , and such like . but I would gladly know why the Spirit of God hath particularly set downe the last specified Officers , as 1 Cor. 12. 28. Apostles , under which are no species of Apostles , but onely such individuall persons , Matthias , Paul , &c. and hath also set downe Pastors in specie , Doctors and Teachers in specie , Ephes. 4. 11. under which there be onely such individuall persons who are Pastors and Teachers , as John , Epaphroditus , Archippus , Thomas , &c. and there is no roome left for the Church to subdivide Pastors or Doctors into such and such new sp●cies , as Popes , Cardinals , &c. and yet under the generall of governments , many species and new kindes of governments in a prudentiall way may be brought in . If Christ have set downe the particulars of Pastors , Prophets , Apostles , according to their last specified nature , why hath his wisdome not beene as expresse and particular in all other offices necessary for feeding and governing the flocke of Christ ? a Pope , a Prelate , a Cardinall , an Officiall , would take as small roome in print , and in Christs Testament , as Apostle , Doctor , Pastor , though I grant they doe take halfe so much more roome in the State and Parliament .

Of Deacons .

WE conceive , according to Gods Word Acts 6. that Deacons be of divine institution , because when some poore widowes were neglected in the dayly ministration , the Apostles appointed seven men of good report , and full of the holy Ghost , to take care of Tables and provide for the poore , that the Apostles might give themselves to the Word and Prayer .

Object . 1. There is not one word of Deacons , Acts 6. not one word of the poverty of widows , and these seven were but civill curators and tutors of the widows , and not Church-officers , for any thing that can be collected from Gods Word .

Answ. The equivalent of a Deacon in name , is Acts 6. there are those who are not to preach the Word , but are to serve Tables , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and some did complaine because their widowes were neglected , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , if widowes were neglected through the want of a dayly Deaconry , the Text must insinuate a Deaconry , and a want of a Table to these widowes . Secondly , it is unknowne divinity , that the twelve Apostles in a Church-assembly doe institute , and that with solemne prayer , and imposition of hands , officers meerly civill to tutor widowes . Thirdly , the daily ministration was the want of sustenance , as it is said , That certaine women ministred to Christ of their Luke 8. 3. substance , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Acts 20. 34. Yea your selves doe know that those hands have ministred to my necessities . And is it like that the Apostles were civill curators to widowes before this time ?

Object . 2. It is evident from the Text that these Deacons were not of divine institution , but of a meere temporary erection , for the present necessity of the Church . First , it is said they were appointed , Acts 6. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Secondly , they were erected upon occasion of the multiplying of the disciples . Thirdly , upon occasion of the poverty of widows , and therefore when there be no poore , there is no need of Deacons , and so it is but an office of a temporary standing in the Church .

Answ. These words ( in those dayes ) are not so much referred to the institution of Deacons , as to the order of the history . Secondly , to Satans malice , who raised a schisme in the Church , when the number of Disciples grew . And thirdly , are referred to the murmuring of the widows ; and they doe no more prove that Deacons are a temporary institution , and brought in , by the Church , in a prudentiall way for the Chuches present necessity , then the Lords Supper is concluded to be but a temporary and prudentiall institution of the Church , because it is said , In the night that Iesus was betrayed , he tooke bread , &c. Secondly , the occasion of the multiplying of Disciples & the neglecting of the widows , doth not prove that Deacons are a prudentiall and temporary institution : for here I distinguish betwixt an occasion and a motive and cause ; divers Ordinances of God have both these . As the occasion of writing the Epistle to Philamon , was the flight of Onesmus a fugitive servant from his master , and his willing minde to returne to him againe , and upon that occasion Paul did write to Philamon ; but that will not prove that the Epistle to Philemon is but a prudentiall Letter , and obliging for a time , because the motive and cause why the holy Ghost would have it written , was , that it should be a part of Canonicall Scripture , obliging to the second comming of Christ . The like I say of the Epistle to the Galathians , written upon occasion of seducing Teachers , who had bewitched the Galathians , and made them beleeve , they must be circumcised and keepe the Law , if they would be justified in Christ : Yet hence is not proved , that the Epistle to the Galathians is but a prudentiall Letter , and not of divine and perpetuall institution ; for the cause and motive of writing was , that it might be a part of the Canon of faith . So also the Covenant of Grace and the Gospell was made upon this occasion , by reason that the first Covenant could not save us , Heb. 8. vers. 7. Rom. 8 2. 3. Gal. 3. 21 , 22. is therefore ( I pray you ) the Covenant of grace but a temporary and a prudentiall peece ? Upon the occasion of the death of Zelophead , who died in the wildernesse without a male-childe , whose name thereby was in danger to be delete and blotted out of Israel , the Lord maketh a generall Law through all Israel , binding till the Messiah his comming , Numb . 27. 8. If a man die and have no sonne , then shall you cause his inheritance to passe unto his daughter ; this was no prudentiall Law . I might alleage infinite Ordinances in Scripture , the like to this . Yea , most of all the Ordinances of God are occasioned from our spirituall necessities ; are they therefore but humane and prudentiall Statutes , that are onely to endure for a time ? I thinke , no.

Ob. 3. But if the civill Magistrate had been a friend to the Church , Acts 6. his place had beene to care for the poore , for the law of nature obligeth him to take care of the poore , therefore did a woman in the famine at the siege of Samaria cry , Helpe O King ; and if this were done by Christian Magistrates , Pastors should be eased thereof , that they might give themselves to the Word and Prayer , and there should be no neede of a divine positive institution of Deacons for this charge .

Answ. That the godly Magistrate is to take care of the poore , as they are members of the Common wealth , I could easily grant . But this is not now in question ; but whether , or not , the Church , as it is an Ecclesiasticall society , should not have a treasure of the peoples E●angelike free-will-offering for the necessity of the Saints , as Heb. 13. 16. 1 Cor. 16. 1 , 2. 2 Cor. 9. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , and concequently , whether or not Christ hath ordained , not the Pastors , but some officers besides , to attend this worke ? Wee affirme he hath provided for his poore members , even their bodily necessi ies . Secondly , if this be true , that there should be no Deacon but the Christian Magistrate , then were these seven Deacons but the Substitutes and Vicars of the Emperour and King . Now certainly , if Apostolike benediction and laying on of hands , in the wisdome of God was thought fit for the Vicars and Deputies of the Magistrates , it is like that beside the coronation of the Roman Emperour , the twelve Apostles ought to have blessed him with prayer , and separated him by laying on of hands for this Deaconrie ; for what Apostolike calling is necessary , for the temporary substitute is more necessary , and at least that same way necessary for the principall . But that civill Magistrates , ex officio , are to be separated for this Church-office so holden forth to us , 1 Tim. 3. 12. I can hardly beleeve . Thirdly , I see not what the Magistrate doth in his office , but he doth it as the Minister of God who beareth the sword , Rom. 13 4. and if he should compell to give almes , then should almes be a debt , and not an almes and free-will-offering . It is t●u● , there may intervene some coaction to cause every man to do his duty , and to force men to give to the poore ; but then I say , that forcing with the sword should not be an act of a separated Church-officer , who , as such , useth no carnall weapons . Four●●ly , the law of nature may lead to a supporting of the poore , but that hindreth not but God may ordaine it as a Church-duty , and appoint a Church-officer to collect the bounty of the Sain●● , 1 Cor. 16. 3. 5. I see not how the Apostle , 1 Tim. 3. should not hold forth his Cannons concerning a Deacon , to the King , if he ex officio be the Church-treasurer , but the Apostle doth match him with the Bishop , Acts 6. the appointing of the Deacon is not grounded Acts 6. upon the want of a Christian Magistrate , but on another ground , that the Apostles must attend a more necessary worke , then Tables .

Object . 4. But the occasion of appointing Deacons was to disburden the Pastor , who was to give himselfe wholy to preaching and praying ; Ergo , at the first the Apostles and so also Pastors were Deacons ; if therefore the poore be fewer then they were at Ierusalem , Act. 6. where the Church did exceedingly multiplie ; this Office of Deaconry was to returne to the Pastors , as its prime and native subject ; and therefore is not essentially and primarily an Office separated from the Pastors Office . And if the poore cease to be at all , the Office ceaseth also .

Ans. I cannot well deny but it is apparent from Act. 6. 4. that the Apostles themselves were once those who cared for the poore , but I deny that hence it followes in the case of fewer poore , that the Office can returne to the Pastors as to the first subject , except you suppose the intervention of a divine institution to place it againe in the Pastors ; as the power of judging Israel was once in Samuel , but upon supposition that Saul was dead , that power cannot returne backe to Samuel except you suppose that God by his authority shall re-deliver and translate it backe againe to Samuel . For seeing God by positive institution had turned the power of judging over from Samuel into the person of Saul , and changed the same into a regall and Kingly power , that same authority who changed the power must rechange it againe , and place it in , and restore it to its first subject . 2. The fewnesse of poore ; or no poore at all , cannot be supposed , Joh. 12. 8. for the poore you have alwaies with you . And considering the afflictions of the Churches , the object of the Deacons giving and shewing mercy , as it is Rom. 12. 8. cannot be wanting , as that the Churches fabricke be kept in good frame , the poore , the captives of Christian Churches , the sicke , the wounded , the stranger , the distracted be relieved , yea and the poor Saints of other Churches , 1 Cor. 16. be supported . 3. Not onely because of the impossibility that Pastors cannot give both themselves to praying and the Word , and to the serving of Tables ; but by reason of the wisdome of Christ in a positive Law , the Pastor cannot be the Deacon ex officie in any case . For 1. Christ hath made them distinct Offices , upon good grounds , Act. 6. 4. 2. The Apostle hath set downe divers qualifications , for the Bishop , 1 Tim. 3. 1. and for the Deacon , V. 12 , 13. And 3. the Pastor who is to give the whole man to the preaching of the Gospell , cannot entangle himselfe with Tables , 1 Tim. 4. 15. 2 Tim. 2. 3 , 4 , 5. if we should say nothing , that if there were need of Officers to take care of the poore , when there was such grace and love amongst the Saints and Apostles able and willing to acquit themselves toward the poore , and when all things were common Act. 2. 44 , 45 , 46 , 47. Act. 4. 31. 32 , 33 , 34. far more now is the Office needfull , when the love of many is waxen cold .

Object . 5. But if there were a community of goods , and no man lacked any thing , Act. 5. 34. there were no poore at all , and so no need of Deacons .

Answ. This is to carpe at the wisdome of God , who appointed seven men to serve Tables ; for justice might say , those who had nothing to give to the publique treasury of the Church , should expect nothing thence , charity would say the contrary .

Object . 6. Distribution of earthly goods is not such a thing , at requireth a spirituall Office ; for money given by a Church-officer hath no spirituall influence on the poores necessity , more then money given by the Magistrate , or one who hath no Church-office .

Answ. I deny the consequence : for then the Priests killing of Bullockes to God had no more influence , if we speake physically , then a Bullocke killed by another man . Now the Churches bounty and grace , 1 Cor. 16. 3. being a spirituall offering to God , by vertue of Christs institution , hath more in it then the common charity of an Heathen , if it were but for this , that the wisdome of God , in his Ordinance is to be considered ; and if we speake physically , the Word of God hath no more influence when spoken by a Pastour in publique , then when spoken by a private man ; yet if we looke to Gods Ordinance , the one hath more assistance when it is spoken , then the other , caeter is paribus .

Object . 7. The Office of a Deacon is not mentioned in the Word , and what should be his charge is scarcely holden forth in Scripture .

Answ. The Scripture saith the contrary , 1 Tim. 3. 13. They that have used the Office of the Deacons well , &c. V. 8. Likewise must the Deacon be grave , Phil. 1. 1. 2. The Scripture holdeth forth to us , that he must take care that Widdows and the poore be not neglected in the daily ministration , Act. 6. 1. and therefore must he serve Tables , v. 2. And 3. he must be appointed over this worke , v. 3. and 4. looke how farre giving and shewing mercy , and how farre singlenesse of heart and cherefulnesse in these things extend , as farre must the office of the Deacon extend , hence all in poverty , want , captivity , bonds , sicknesse , are to be helped by him .

Object . 8. But it would seem , that a Deacon hath a higher imployment then to distribute goods , and that he is to preach , as Stephen and Philip did : for 1. they did choose men Act. 6. full of the Holy Ghost ; now to be full of the holy Ghost is a requisite in a preacher , and is not required in a man to distribute money ; yea these who are least esteemed in the Church , 1 Cor. 6. 4. may judge in things pertaining to this life , Ergo , they may suffice to distribute 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , things which belong to this life .

Answ. To distribute in a civill and naturall way requireth not a man full of the Holy Ghost , but to distribute in simplicity , and with the grace of heavenly cheerfulnesse , Rom. 12. 8. and with the qualities of a compleat Deacon , 1 Tim. 3. 12 , 13 , 14. requireth the holy Ghost , though they may be good Deacons who are not full of the holy Ghost , but such were chosen , 1. because this was to be a rule to all ‛ Deacons to the Worlds end , and the rule should be as streight and perfect as can be . 2. Because there were choice of such men , as those in the Apostelike Church , and reason that God be served with the best of his owne . 3. The Holy Ghost is required for sanctification , as well as for gifts of preaching , Luke 1. 15. Matth. 10. v. 20. 4. Stephen did no more ch. 7. in his Apology then any witnesses of Christ convened before Rulers may doe who are obliged to be ready alwaies to give an answer to every one who asketh them of the hope that is in them , with meeknesse and feare , 1 Pet. 3. 15. yea though it were a woman who yet may not preach , 1 Cor. 14. 34. Philip was an Evangelist . 5. The Apostle , 2 Cor. 6. 4. doth sharply checke the Corinthians , for going to Law one with another , before heathen Judges , whereas the smallest amongst them might have supplied the bench of an heathen Judge in matters of this life , the losse whereof was nothing comparable to the great scandall they gave . But there is a greater grace required to the Church-distribution , and the officiall regulating of the conscience in a constant office of distribution , then in a transient and arbitrary act of deciding a matter of money .

Object , 9. 1 Tim. 3. 9. The Deacon must hold the mystery of the faith ; Ergo , he must be able to preach .

Answ. It followeth not , for there is a twofold holding of the mystery of faith : one for the preaching of sound doctrine recommended to Timothy , of this Paul doth not speake ; there is another holding of faith for stedfast beleevers , and for an holy and blamelesse conversation ; and therefore it is not said simply , holding the mystory of faith , but , holding the mystery of faith in a pure conscience . In which sense Christ saith to the Church of Pergamus , Rev. 2. 13. Thou holdest fast my name , and hast not denied my faith . And Paul saith of himselfe , 2 Tim. 4. 7. I have fought a good fight , I have finished my course , I have kept the faith . He meaneth not , that he kept so much of the knowledge of the sound doctrine of faith as made him fit for the ministery , and qualified him to teach , and 1 Tim. 1. 19. holding faith and a good conscience , which is meant of the grace of saving faith . But that the Deacon is not to preach is , cleare , 1. because Paul clearely differenceth the Deacon from the preaching Elder , 1 Tim. 3. 1 , 2 , 12 , 13. and requireth that the preaching Elder be apt to teach , but requireth not this of the Deacon , and Act. 6. they are made two Offices not consistent in one man ; for if the Deacon must be a Teacher , he must either be a Teacher as a gifted man , or he must be a Teacher in Office ; he cannot ex officio , by his Office , be a Teacher as a gifted man , for the authours of that opinion hold that men are Preachers that way as Christians , and so the Deacon though he were not a Deacon , he might be a teacher in that sense , though he were onely a gifted Christian : Ergo , he cannot be such a teacher by his Office : but neither can he be an officiall teacher as a Deacon , for he who doth teach that way must also pray , for the one cannot be granted , and the other denied ; if then the Deacon , ex officio , by his office must pray and preach ; he must pray and preach 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in season and out of seasor , and give himselfe to it . But if he must give himselfe to praying and preaching by his office , then by his office he must give over the sorving of Tables , as is said , Act. 6. 2. and if he must leave Tables by his office , the Deacon by his office must quit and give up his office , and it shall belong to the Deacon by his office , to be no Deacon . 2. Whoever by his office may teach , by his office may administer the Sacraments , for Christ giveth one and the same royall Patent and Commission for both , Matth. 28 19. 1 Cor. 11. 23. Joh. 4. 1 , 2. but this is to be a Minister by Office , and so a Deacon , as a Deacon , is a Pastor . 3. The Deacons office is to preach if he be thereto called by the Bishop : hence the Bishop is the principall and sole Pastor ; the Preacher , Elder , and Deacon , none of them may preach or baptize , except they be called thereunto by the bishop . Hence judge what a Pastor that man i● , who actu primo , and by office is a preacher , but cannot nor may not exercise his Office , but by the will of a mortall man .

Object . 10. The Deacon must be the husband of one wife , ruling his children and his own house well 1 Tim. 3. 12. Ergo , he must be able to governe the Church well , no l●sse then the Pastor of whom the same qualification is required , v. 5. and so the Deacon must be somewhat more then a carer for the poore .

Answ. The Deacon is never called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 a Ruler ; nor is that same dignity of ruling the Church put upon the Deacon , v. 12. which is put upon the Pastor , v. 5. Nor are these same words spoken of both . Nor is it said that the Deacon must rule the House of God ; but the meaning is , he who cannot rule his owne children and house shall not be able to rule the Hospitall houses of the poore and sicke ; and this ruling is nothing but a cari●g for tables , and for the houses of the poore . Whereas taking care for the house of God is given to the Pastor , v. 5. but if you give to the Deacon the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven , he is higher then his first institution can beare , Act. 6. where he is expresly removed from all officiall medling with word and prayer , and set to the serving of Tables .

Object . 11. The Deacon by his Office is to serve Tables , Act. 6. 2. that is , to administer the Sacraments , at least he is by office to baptize ; for Iesus himselfe baptized not , but his Disciples , Io● . 4. 2. and Christ sent not Paul to baptize , but to preach ; therefore the dpostles baptized by others , by Deacons , and by others whose ministery and helpe they used in baptizing , Ergo , the Deacons office is not onely to care for the poore .

Answ. I yeeld that the Deacon is to serve at the communion Table , and provide the Elements , and to carry the Cup at the Table : but that is no wayes the meaning of serving Tables in this place , Acts 6. 2. because the serving of Tables , here , is such a service , as was a remedy of the Widowes neglected in the dayly ministration , for of this neglect they complaine v. 1. but they did not complaine that they were neglected of the benefit of the Lords Supper , for the Apostles doe never thinke that the administration of the Lords Supper is a burden which they put off themselves as inconsistent with the preaching of the word and prayer , and which they devolve wholly over to Deacons , It s not so sayth the sixt councell , and Chrysostome seemeth to

6. Synod . can 16. invenimus eos esselocutos ( Act. 6 non de viris qui ministrant mysterits , sed de ministerio quod in usu mensarun● ad hibebatur , secundum Chrysostom .

Chryost . ●omil . 13. ● act .

teach the same ; and because a Table signifieth an Altar , ( as Salmeron saith ) therefore some papists say that Deacons served at the Altar ; and so saith pontificale Romanum oportet diaconum ministrare ad altare , Baptizare , & praedicare : and Salmeron saith , to serve at the altar is essentiall to the Deacon , but to preach and baptize agreeth to him by commission and of necessity . 2. The Apostles in the Text , Acts 6. doe denude themselves , of serving of Tables in an officiall way , or , as serving of Tables was a peculiar office imposed upon seven men , of honest report , and full of the Holy Ghost , with apostolick benediction , and laying on of the hands of the Apostles , and doe manifestly make it an office different from their pastorall charge , which was to give themselves continually to prayer , and to the ministery of the word , v. 3. 4. for baptizing cannot but include praying and preaching . Mat. 28. 19. or at least must be necessarily conjoyned in one and the same Church-officer ; for where doth the word of God hold forth to us such a rare and strange Creature , who by office is to baptise , but by office is neither to preach nor pray ? now the Text doth clearely difference the office of serving Tables , and the office of continuall praying and preaching , as not consistent in one person v. 3. 4 , 5 , 6.

Object . 12. Paul , 1 Tim. 3. requireth that the Deacon v. 10. should first be tryed , and thereafter use the office , so he be found blameles ; Ergo , the Deacon must be ordained with imposition of hands , as the presbyter , and so must be , by office , some more eminent person , then one who serveth Tables only ; for grace was given to Timothy ; by the laying on of hands , 1 Tim. 3. 14. and Chrysostome observeth , that Steven did no miracles ; nor did he speak with wisdome , that the adversaries were not able to resist v. 8. 9. 10. till first hee was appointed a Deacon , by imposition of hands , which evidenceth to us more then a poore office of giving almes to the poore .

Answ. There is need that Deacons be tryed ; and it is sayd , they must be found 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , blamelesse in conversation , not 〈◊〉 , apt to teach , which is required in a Teacher , 1 Tim. 3. 1. for these who are to shew mercy with cheerfulnes , and to give with simplicity , as Deacons must by their office doe , Rom. 12. 8. must be of approved and tryed blamelesnes , lest they detrand the poore . 2. It is not sayd that Deacons were ordained with fasting and prayer , Acts 6. as the Elders are chosen in every Church , Acts 14. 23. and as hands are layd upon Paul and Barnabas ; Acts 13. v. 3. 4. but simply that the Apostles , Acts 6. 6. prayed and layd their hands on them . Which seemeth to mee , to be nothing , but a signe of praying over the Deacons , and no ceremony , or Sacrament conferring on them the Holy Ghost ; And Steven his working of miracles , and speaking with wisdome irresistible , was but the fruit of that grace and extraordinary measure of the Holy Ghost , abundantly powred forth on all rankes of persons , in those dayes , when the prophecy of Iocl was now taking its accomplishment ; Act. 2. 16 , 17 , 18 19. Iocl . 2. 28. 29. which grace was in Steven before hee was ordained a Deacon , by the laying on of hands . Act. 6. 3 , 4 , 5. And the Text saith not that Steven did wonders and signes amongst the people by vertue of imposition of hands , or of his Deaconry , but because he was full of faith and power . v. 8. else you must make working of miracles a gift bestowed on all those who serve Tables , and are not to give themselves to continuall praying , and the Ministery of the Word . I thinke , papists will not say so much of all their priests ; and we can say it of none of our pastors , nor doth Chysostome say that Steven , as a Deacon , and by vertue of the office of a Deacon wrought miracles ; but onely that his miracles and disputing was a meere consequent of laying on of hands . Fa●ther laying on of hands was taken from the cus●ome of blessing amongst the Jewes , Christ layd his hands upon young children and blessed them , yet did hee not , thereby , designe them to any office . The fourth councell of Carthage saith , Deacons should administer the Sacraments ; but times were growing worse then : and two things in ancient times made the office degenerate . 1. The l●zinesse of pastors who layd preaching and baptizing on the Deacon . 2. The Deacons having in their hands aerarium Ecclesiasticum , the Church Treasury , as the Church became rich , the Deacons were exalted ; and then came in their Archiliaconi , Archdeacons and Deacons , and so some Deacons were above pastors , whereas Acts 6. in their first institution they were inferior to pastors ; this moved Spalato to tell us of two sorts of Deacons , the apostolick Deacons , which we assert , and the ecclesiastick Deacons , popi● and of the newest cut ; which we discla●me .

As concerning the perpetuity of Deacons . I conceive that Deacons must be as permanent in the Church , as distribution and shewing mercy on the poore .

Ob. 13. How doe those words Act. 6. v. 7. and the word of God grew , and the number of Disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly , &c. follow upon the institution of Deacons v. 2 , 3 4. 5 , 6. if Deacons were not , according to their primitive institution and Office , ordained to be Preachers of the word , by whose paines the word grew ?

Answ. The cohesion three wayes is good . 1. Because the Apostles being exonerated of serving Tables , and giving themselves to continuall praying and the ministery of the word v. 2. Through the constituting of the seven Deacons the word thereby did grow (2) Satan stirred up a schisme betwixt the Grecians and Hebrewes , which is prejudiciall to the growth of the Gospell and Church , yet the Lord being superabundantly gratious , where Satan is exceedingly malitious , will have his Gospell and Church to flourish . 3. These words v. 7. doe cohere kindly with the last verse of the foregoing Chapter . v. 41. And dayly in the Temple , and in every house , they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ and Ch. 6. v. 7. And the word of God increased , &c. God blessing the labours of his persecuted Apostles , and the story of the ordained Deacons is cast in by Luke upon occasion of the neglected Grecian Widdowes , and the growth of the word could not arise from the appointing of such officers who were not to labour in the word and prayer , but imployed about Tables , to the end that the Apostles might labour in the word and prayer .

Ob. 14. But doth not the faithfull administration of the Deacons office , purchase to the Deacon a good degree , that is , doth it make him ●●●ter in a preparatory way to be a Pastor ?

Answ. The word of God , 1 Tim. 3. and elsewhere setting downe the qualification and previous dispositions of a Teacher , doth no where teach us , that none can be a minister , but he who is first a Deacon . 2. Didcclavius saith , many are faithfull Deacons who are never Teachers , nor apt to be Teachers , and many in the ancient Church were , of lay men , made Teache●r . Ambrosius heri Catechumenus , hodie Episcopus ; and Estius

Altar Damas● . p. 110.

Estius com . in 1. Tim.

Hugo Card. com . in loc.

Cornelius a lap . in loc.

Chrysostome in locen .

Cyprian l. 4. epist. 2. ad Antonianū . Bernard Serm. 3. de ●ssiupt .

Lyra in loc.

Salmero com . in loc.

granteth , many good Deacons can never be Teachers , because of their ignorance .

Hugo Cardinal saith , this is onely against these , qui subito ascendunt in pr●lationes , who suddainly ascend to prelacies , Cornelius a lapide saith , ut promereantur altiùs promoveri in sacerdotia ; they are to serve so , as they may deserve to be promoted to higher places ; but this doth not infer that none can be presbyters who have not first beene Deacons . As Chrysostome saith , we use not to place a novice in an high place , antequam fidei suae & vitae dederit doc●m●nta , before hee have given proofe of his faith , and good conversation . And Cyprian writing to Antonianus , commendeth Cornelius that hee came not by a leap and suddainly to be a Bishop , sed per omnia ecclesiastica officia promotus , being promoted by degrees to all Church-Offices ; and Bernard followeth the same meaning . Lyra , merebu●tur quod fiant sacerdotes , acquirunt altiorem gradum , saith Salmeron . Now it is cleare that the fathers and papists could extort no more out of the Text ; but that hee who useth the office of a Deacon well , doth deserve of the Church , to be promoted to an higher office , but there is no ground for papists , or others to make the Deacons office a necessiary degree , without the which none can be a Teacher . a a Sozomen l. 5. c. 8. Sozomenus saith the Deacons office was to keepe the Churches goods b b Epiphan. l. 5. c. 19. Epiphanius , Diaconis in ecclefia non con creditum est , ut aliquod mysterium perficiant , sed ut administrent solùm & exequantur commissa ; then they might neither teach nor baptize , c c Eusebius l. 4. de vna cons. Eusebius saith , the care of the poore and the keeping of the Church and the vessels thereof were committed to the Deacons d d Ruffinus l. 1. c. 14. Ruffinus saith , Deacons disputed in Synods ; and Athanasius , when hee was a Deacon , helped his Bishop Alexander at the Nicen councell ; but this came ( as I suppose ) because about the fourth century , they were admitted to be scribes in Synods e e Ambros. c. 4. ad Ephes. Ambrose saith at the beginning , Deacons did preach and baptise , but after when the Church was well furnished with officers , they durst not presume to teach . The f f Concl. Nice c. 20. Canon of the councel of Nice saith ; Diaconi ne sedeant in concessu presbyterorum , aut illis praesentibus Eucharistiam dividant , sed illis agentibus solùm ministrent ; if there was not a presbyter present g g Ruffin . l. 2. c. 6. Ruffinus saith , then the Deacon might distribute the Elements .

I conceive , the place 1 Tim. 5. saith , that Widowes were in the Apostolick Church , both poore aged Women , who were to be mantained by the Church , and also auxiliary helps , for meere service to helpe the Deacons in these hot Countries . Both is apparent from the Text ▪ honour Widowes that are Widowes indeed , that is as h h Hugo Cardinal . com . in loc. Hugo Cardinalis expoundeth it , who want both the comfort of an husband and of Children to maintaine them ; and so also i i Chrysost. in loc. Chrysostome , before him expounded it ; and k k Hugo Cardin . c. in . loc. Chrysosto . Theophyl . Anselmus . Hugo Cardinalis , the honour that is due to them , is , say Chrysostome , Theophylact , Anselmus , that they bee sustained by the oblations of the Church . Ecclesiae oblationibus sustententur , say l l Salmer . com . in loc. Salmeron and m m Estius in loc. Estius ; and Cornelius n n Cornelius à lapid . com . in loc. à lapide , saith , as ( honour thy Father and thy Mother ) doth include ( h●norem sustentationis ) that children are to give the honour of maintenance to their indigent parents , no lesse then the honour of obedience and reverence , so are Widowes to have this honour . (2) It is said , if any Widow have children or nephewes , let them learne first to shew mercy at home , and to requite their Parents ; Ergo , the children or grand children of these Widowes were to sustaine them , and not to burden the Church , with them , and so they were poore Widowes ; and this . 3. The Text clearely holdeth forth , while the Apostle proveth that the children who are able , are to helpe the Parent being a desolate Widow ; because v. 8. all are to provide for these of their owne house , and to maintaine them in their indigence , else they be , in that , worse then Infidell children , who by natures love , doe provide for their poore parents . 3. This is cleare from , v. 16. if any man or woman that believeth , hath widows , let them relieve them , and let not the Church be charged , that they may relieve them that are widowes indeed ; Ergo , these widowes called also , v. 3. widowes indeed , did some way burden the Church with their maintenance , and they were not to be layd upon the Churches stock , to be maintained thereby , except they were desolate and without friends .

But some may object , if these widowes had a charge , and did any worke or service to the Church , ( as it is cleare from the Text , v 9. they did ) in overseeing the poore , and the sick , were not wages due to them , for their worke ? for the labourer is worthy of his hire ; the Scripture saith not , if a Preacher have a father who is Rich , and may sustaine his Son ; let not the Church be burdened with his wages , but on the contrary , the Preacher is to have his wages for his work , as an hire ; ad modum debiti , non ad modum eleemo●ynae ; as a debt , not as an Almes . I answer , the reason is not alike of the preaching Elder , and of the Widow ; for the pastors service requiring the whole man was of that nature , that it was a worke deserving wages , as any worke-man , a dresser of a Vineyard deserveth wages , 1 Cor. 9 7. or a plower , or one that Thresheth v. 10. Therefore the Preachers wages is so wages that its debt , not almes : but a Widow of sixty yeeres being weake and infirme , cannot acquit her selfe , in such a painfull office as doth merit poore wages , and therefore the reward of her labour was both wages and an almes .

Againe , that this Widow had some charge or service in the Church , ( I meane not any Ministeriall office , for she was not ordained as the Deacon , Acts 6. with imposition of hands ) I prove from the Text. 1. Because this Widdow was not to be chosen to the number or Colledge of Widowes , except shee had beene 60. Yeares , this is a positive qualification of a positive service , as if it were an office ; for else what more reason in 60. Yeares then in 61. or 62. or in 58. or 59. if shee was a meere eleemosynary and an indigent woman ? or can godlinesse permit us to thinke that Paul would exclude a Widow of 50. or 54. or 56 Yeeres , from the Colledge of Widowes , who were desolate and poore ? nor , 2. Would Paul rebuke the Widow taken into the society of these Widowes , because shee married an husband , except she had entered to this service , and had vowed chastity , nor is marrying the second time which is lawfull , Rom. 7. 1. 2. a waxing wanton against Christ and a casting off of the first faith ; as the marrying of these widowes is called . v. 11. 12. therefore this Widow , had some charge and service , in the Church . 3. The word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 let a Widow be chosen of such an age , and not younger , and with such morall qualifications , as is required in the Deacon , &c. doth also evidence that it was an election to some service or charge , as is she be of good report , if she have brought up her children ; if she have lodged strangers ; if she have washed the saints feete ; which qualifications not being in a Widow poore and desolate , cannot exclude her from the Churches almes , and expose her to famishing for want : this also doth Ambrose , Augustine , tract . 58. in Ioan. Chrysostomus , Theophylact. Hieronymus observe on this place ; It is not unprobable to me that Phaebe called a Deacon , or servant of the Church of Cenchrea , was such a Widow , seeing she is Rom. 16. 1. expresly so called : how shee came to Rome , if shee was a poore Widdow and now 60. yeares old , I dispute not , seeing Gods Spirit calleth her so . We can easily yield that Widows of sixty yeares entring to this service did vow not to marrie againe ; so teach Cyprian . l. 1. epist ▪ ad Pomponium , Hyeronym . contr. Jovia● . Epihan . 48.

The last Canon of the councell of Nice ( as Ruffinus l. 1. c. 6. saith ) denieth Widowes to be Church-officers , because they were not ordained with imposition of hands . Hyeronimus in c. 16. ad Roman . saith , Diaconisses in the Orientall Church had some service in Baptisme . Epiphanius l. 3. tom . 2. Heres. 79. saith , they were in the Church , non ad sacrificandum , sed propter horam Balnci , aut visitationis — quando nudatum fuit corpus ●●lieris . Constantine placed them amongst the Clergy , to governe the Corps of the dead ; but Papists then have no warrant for their Nuns .

CHAP. 8. SECT. 8.

Of Election of Officers .

HEre the Author teaches , that Election of Officers belongeth to the Church whose officers they are . 2. That the Church of The way of the Churches of Christ . believers , being destitute of all officers , may ordaine their own officers and Presbyters , by imposition of hands , in respect that the power of the keys is given to the Church of believers , Mar. 18.

Answ. Election of Officers ( no doubt ) belongeth to the whole Church , not in the meaning of our Brethren ; but that this may be cleared , whether a Church without officers , may ordaine Elders , there be diverse other questions here to be agitated ; as 1.

Whether the Church be before the Ministery , or the Ministery before the Churches .

1. Dist. There is an ordinary , and an extraordinary Ministery .

2. There is a mysticall Church of believers , and a ministeriall Church of Pastors and flock .

3. A Church may be so called by anticipation , as Hos. 12. Jacob served for a wise ; or formally , because it is constituted in its whole being .

4. A Ministery is a Ministery to these , who are not as yet professors , but only potentially members of the Church .

1. Concl. There is a Church of believers sometime before there be a ministeriall Church . 1. Because a company of believers is a mysticall Church , for which Christ died , Eph. 5. 25. And such there may be before there be a setled Ministery . As there is a house , before there be a Candlestick , because conversion may be by private meanes , as by reading and conference ; yea a woman hath carried the Gospell to a Land , before there was a Ministery in it . 2. Adam was first and Evah by order of ●ature a Church created of God , before there was a Ministery ; So Adams Ministery is founded upon a nature created according to Gods Image .

2. Concl. A publick ordinary Ministery is before a Church of believers . Eph. 4. 11. Pastors , Teachers , and a Ministery , are given to the inbringing and gathering of the Church ; 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . That is , edifying , and not onely for confirming , but for the converting of the Body of Christ . Nor is Robinson a a Robinson Iust. of s●pa● . p. 320. and his fellowes here to be heard , that the word of restoring is the same which is used , Gal. 6. 1. and so nothing is meant but repairing of Christians already converted , not the converting of these who are yet unconverted . But I Answer 1. The Word of restoring doth no more import that they were converted before , then the word of renewing , Eph. 4. 23. Rom. 12. 2. and the word of awaking from sleepe of sinners , Ep● . 5. 14. doth import that these were new Creatures before , and that they had the life of God , before they be said to be renewed againe and made new , and awaked out of their sleepe . And this Pelagian and popish exposition , is a faire way to elude all the places for the power of grace ; and to helpe Papists and Arminian● . 2. By this there is , 1. no necessity of a publick Ministery , for the conversion of Soules to Christ , nor is a Ministery and Pastors , and Teachers given by Jesus Christ , with intention , to open the eyes of the blind , and to convert soules to God . All the ordinary wayes of conversion of Soules , is by the preaching of men out of office , and destitute of all calling of the Church to preach , which is a wonder . 3. The Fathers begetting , by order of nature , are before the children ; the pastors are Fathers , the seede before the plant or birth ; the word preached , Rom. 10. 14. is the immortall seed of the new birth , 1 Pet. 1. 23. The Ministery and ordinary use thereof , is given to the pastors as to Christs Ambassadours , 2 Cor. 5. 18. 20. Therefore the Ministery is before the Church of believers , though wee will not tie the Lord to these only : yet is this his ordinary established way : but more of this hereafter .

Robinson objecteth b b Iust of separ . p. 320. 321. The Apostles and brethren were a Church of God , Acts 2. 25. when as yet no Pastors or Teachers were appoynted in it . How then are the Ministers spoken of Eph. 4. 11. before the Church out of which they were taken ? yea the office of pastors was not heard of in the Church then . Ans. 1. It is cleare there were in that meeting , eleven Apostles called to be pastors ; Mat. 10. 1 , 2 , 3. sent of God , Mat 29. 19 inspired or the Holy Ghost to open and shut Heaven , Ioh. 20. 21 , 22. Before Christs ascension ; and this meeting was after his ascension , Acts. 1. 15. and here was a governing Church , and without the Apostles , an Apostle could not be chosen and called by men . And an instance of such a calling is not in Gods Word . 2. He objecteth . The Apostles themselves , were first Christians and members of the Church , before they were Ministers .

Answ. Men may be a Church of Christians , and a mysticall Church before they have a Ministery , but they are not a governing Church , having the power of the keyes , so long as they want officers and stewards , who only have warrant ordinary of Christ to use the keys .

3. He objecteth , God 1 Cor. 12. 28. hath set officers in the Church ; Ergo , the Church is before the Officers , as the setting of a Candle in a Candlestick . presupposeth a Candlestick . The Church is the candlestick . Rev. 1. The officers candles , lights , stars

Answ. God hath put and breathed in man a living soule . Ergo , he is a living man , before the soule be breathed in him : friend your logick is naught . The Church is the Candlestick , not simply without Candles and Lampes : the Church ministeriall is the Candlestick , and the Ministers the Candles set in the Church ministeriall , as Eyes and Eares are seated , and all the seales are seated in a living man ; Ergo , he is a living man before the senses be seated in him , it followeth in no sort . Because by the candles seating in the Church , the Church becommeth a ministeriall and governing Church : It is as you would say the Lord giveth the wife to the husband ; Ergo. He is an husband before God give him the wife .

4. He objecteth . That it is senseles , that a Minister may be sent as a Minister , to the hidden number not yet called out , which are also his st●ck potentially , not actually ; as Mr. Bernard saith , because it is the property of a good shepheard , to call his own sheep by name . Ioh. 20. also it is a logicall error , that a man may have a● actuall relation to a stock potentially , it is as if a man were a husband because he may have a wife .

But I answer ; he not onely may be , but is a pastor to these that are but potentially members to the invisible Church , though unconverted , except you say , a man hath no relation as a pastor to the flock , to all and every one of a thousand soules , which are his flock , except they bee all truly converted , and members of the invisible Church , which if you say , I can refute it easily as an Anabaptisticall falsehood ; for if they all professe the truth , and chuse him for their pastor , hee is their pastor , but they are a saved flock potentially , though actually a visible flock having actuall relation to him , as to their pastor .

But. 2. That a good minister know all his flock by name , be requisite , and is spoken of Christ ▪ Ioh. 10. in relation to the whole Catholick Church , as is expounded v. 14. yet will it not follow , he is not a pastor nor not a good pastor , who knoweth not all his flock at all times . 3. A man is indeed not properly a pastor , and a Church officer to Indians , who neither are called nor professe the truth , if he preach to them , though he have not relation to such , as to a Christian flock , yet he hath a relation of a pastor to them in that case .

Yea I desire our brethren to satisfie me in this even according to their grounds . A number of Christians is a Church mysticall , but they are not a Church ministeriall , while they be conjoyned covenant-wayes , and use the keyes in such acts of Church union : Ergo , They are not a Church ministeriall before they bee a Church governing : which is all wee say ; for then they should be a body seeing and hearing , before they be a body seeing and hearing .

Quest. 2. Whether there be any Church in the Scripture having power of the keys , yet wanting all Church-Officers ?

The Question is neere to the former , yet needfull in this matter to be discussed . The Question is not , if the name Church be given to a company of Christians , without relation to their Officers , for the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is given to a civill meeting . The Hebrews call , sometimes , any meeting of people a Church : as 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 doth sometime signifie , Gen. 49. 6. my soule come not thou 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to their assembly . So the Rabbines use 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 for a place , where the Congregation meeteth . So the Chaldaick and Arabick use 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , for the place where the worshippers met , from 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Caldaice & Syriace , Adoravit , because it is a place of meeting for adoration ; and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 thè Congregation from the Arabick 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 congregavit . Yet speaking of a governing and orderly constituted Church , you shall never finde , such a Church having the name of a Church , but such a company as hath officers , and is spoken of as a house and family , where there are stewards , keys , doores , bread and other things noting a City-incorporation .

1. Because the keys are given to stewards , who , by ▪ office , beare the keys ; for taking in and casting out , by power of censures , is proper to an ordered City , where there are governors , and people governed . 2. Because wee reade not that the keyes are given to a company of single believers , out of office . 3. Wee never finde in the word of God , any practice , or precept , that a single company did use the keyes , or can use them , wanting all Officers .

Heare what Robinson objecteth , that he may establish a popular government . a a Robinson . Just. separ p. 107. 108. Two or three making Peters confession , Mat. 16. are a Church . But two or three may make this confession without officers ; Ergo , The proposition is cleare , by the promise made to build the Church upon the Rock of Peters confession .

Answ. 1. I deny the proposition , and it is not proved : two or three making Peters confession are not the Church ministeriall , to which Christ gave the keyes ; for the keys include pastorall power to preach and baptize , which Separatists b b Confess art . 37. deny to two or three wanting officers , they may be a mysticall Church or a part of the redeemed Church , Eph. 3. 25. 26. nor doth Christ promise to build the ministeriall Church properly on the rock , but only the Church of believers , for whom he gave the keyes , but to whom he gave no keyes . 2. This argument will hurt our brethren : for two or three not entred in Church-state , nor in Courch-Covenant , without Church-state , as well , as without officers , may , and doe often make Peters confession ; yet are they not for that a governing Church , because they may not happily as yet bee united covenant-wayes .

2. He objecteth , If the Apostles appoint Elders in every Church . Acts 14. 23. If God se● in the Church Apostles , Prophets , Teachers , 1 Cor 12. 28. Then there is a Church before Officers , Apostles , Prophets : a Major presupposeth there was a City , before he was Major , a Steward presupposeth a family ; is not the Eldership an ordinance of the Church , and called the Elders of the Church ? The Church is not an ordinance of the Elders , or given ●● the Elders .

Ans. Job . 10. 20. God hath granted to Iob life ; Ergo , Iob was a living man before God had given him life . The Lord breathed in man the breath of life ; Ergo , he was a breathing and a living man , before God breathed that life in him . God formed man of the dust , Gen. 2. 7. Ergo , hee was a man before God formed him . All these are as good consequences . So Iac●● served for a wife , Hos. 12. 12. Ergo , she was his wife before hee served for her ; it followeth not .

2. This proveth not there is a governing Church without Officers , but the contrary , because for that end doth the Lord appoint Elders in every Church , and a ruler in a City , a King in a Kingdome , to governe them , to feed the flock , Acts 20. 28. Ergo , before there be Officers in a Church , there is no government in it . And so it is not a governing Church ; nor is a City a governing incorporation without a Major or some other Rulers , nor a Kingdome a monarchicall state without a King . And so the Elders , are the Churches Elders , as life is the forme of a living man . And this argument is much against them God ( say our Brethren ) hath appoynted a Church-covenant , in his Church , will it follow : Ergo , there is a Church , before a Church-covenant ; They cannot say this .

3. These with whom ( sayth Robinson ) God hath made a covenant , lb. 108. to be their God , and to have them his people , and to dwell it them as his Temple , which have right to the promises of Christ and his presence , are his Church . But a company of believers without Officers are such ; Ergo , The proposition is Scripture , Gen. 17. 17. Levi. 26. 11 , 12. Mat. 18. 17. The assumption is true , because they may believe , separate themselves from the world , come out of Babel without Officers , except you say they must go to Rome , to Jerusalem , and beyond sea , to seeke a Church .

Answ. The major is false ; for God is in covenant with six believers before they sweare a Church-covenant , and so all the promises are made to them , and yet by your grant , they are not a Church . Yea all these agree to the invisible Church , and every single member thereof . 2. Without officers , believers may not separate themselves from the world , and come out of Babel , by a positive and authoritative separation , to erect a new Church without pastors , or in an ordinary way ; though as Christians they may separate from Rome , negatively and touch no uncleane things . 3. We send none to Ierusalem and Babylon to seeke a Church yet , but except we fall unto the Tenets of Anabaptists , Socinians and Arminians : wee must send farther then to every house , where three believers are , to seeke such as have warrant from Christ to adminstrate the seales of grace , except you in casting downe Babel , build Iericho , and raise up a Tower of confusion , and evert the ministeriall order that Christ hath appoynted in his Church .

4. Then how often ( saith he ) the Officers die , so oft the Church dieth also ; to remove the candlestick is to dischurch the assembly ; but the death of Officers ( which may be in a great persecution ) is never said to be a dischurching of an assembly . And all communion of Saints shall perish , when the Officers are removed ; for Baptisme is without the visible Church ; Eph. 4.

Answ. 1. When the shepheards are removed , the Tents cannot be called the Shepheards Tents , and persecution often doth deface the visible face of a Ministeriall Church , and to remove the candlestick is to remove the ministery , as to take away eyes , and eares and hands from the body , is to hurt the integrity of it , and make it lame . 2. All communion Ministeriall whereby we are a body visible , 1 Cor. 10. 16. eating one bread , may well be loosed , when pastors are removed , whose onely it is , by your owne confession , to administrate the Sacraments , except you allow all to administrate the Lords Supper , and women to Baptise ; nor is there a communion in a family betwixt husband and wife , if you remove husband and wife out of the family , except , you meane a communion by way of charity , to rebuke , exhort , comfort one another , which communion is betwixt two independent congregations , who are not in Church-state one to another : but if you meane in Church-communion , take heed that the keys of every christian family , and the keys of the Kingdome of Heaven be not by this , made all one .

Also it is ( saith he ) unequall dealing to make a prophane multitude , Robins . Iust of sepa● . p. 110. 11● under a diocesian prelate a Church , and to deny , that a company of faithfull believers is a Church . 2. God hath not tied his power or presence to any order , or office of the world , but accepteth of them that feare him , and worke Righteousnes . 3. A power to enjoy the officers is seated in the body , as an essentiall property . 4. Th● Lord calleth the body of the Saints the Church , excluding the Elders Acts 20. 17. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 15. because the Church is essentially in the saints , as the matter and subject formed by the covenant , unto the which the Officers are but adjuncts , not making for the being , but for the welbeing of the Church , and so the furtherance of their faith and their service .

Answ. A profane multitude under a diocesian prelate , is not a Church mysticall of redemed ones , as a company of Believers are , but professing the truth and consisting of a flock of called Officers , they may wel be a Ministeriall Church , which foure Believers cannot be . It is true God hath not tied his power and presence to any order or office , as Anabaptists say : and so speaketh the Catech. of Raccovia a a Catech. Rac. de eccles. ch. p. 301. 302. and Smalcius b b Smalcius in refut. thesiii Dr. sra●zii . par. 2. disp. 4 p. 379. and Nicolaides c c Nicolai● . in defens . tract . Socinian● de ministr. missione contra Miedziboz●um p. 140. say , there is no necessity of a Ministery , after that the Evangel i● preached by the Apostles and confirmed by miracles : and that a Ministery is onely profitable ad benè esse , and not necessary ; The Arminians teach so , the d d Remons . apol. f. 246. Remonstrantes , praedicationem verbi ad id simplicitèr necessariam negant : quid clarius ? So e e Episcop. disp . 28. Thes. 11. Eipscopius , pastoris actio non tam necessaria est quam utilis ad edificationem , postquam Scriptura omnibus & singulis legenda data est , ut ex ca suopte Marte discat quisque quantum satis est . But Paul maketh it in the ordinary way , necessary for salvation to believe , * * Rom. 10. 14 , 15. to call on the Name of the Lord , and to heare a Prophet sent ; and the presence and power of God in the Seales of Righteousnes , is tyed to lawfull Pastors , who onely can administrate those Seales , Mat. 28. 19. as to meanes ordained of God , not as if God could not save without them , and accept the righteous doers without them , but see how this man would beare us in hand , that the comfort of pastorall preaching and the Sacraments cannot be tyed to called Ministers , exccept we call God an accepter of persons , which is denied , Acts 10 ? I believed Teachers and Doctors and Elders , had beene the Eyes , Eares and Hands , and so integrall parts of the visible Church , as Christ is the head of the catholick church . And this man maketh integrall parts adjunctes of the church , thereby declaring Ministers may be well wanted , and that they are passements ad bene esse , and things of order . Never did Anabaptists speake louder against the Ordinances of Christ ; and Socinians and Arminians are obliged to him . Thirdly , the beleevers have right to the Officers , and this right is an essentiall property of the Church ; then also , because beleevers have right to the Keys , the Keyes are onely an adjunct of the visible Church , which our brethren must deny . 4. Acts 20. 17. 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church excluding the Officers is ( saith Robinson ) called the Church , as the Elders of the Church , and Timothy was to behave himselfe well in the Church of God . This is answered ; they are first a mysticall Church , not a governing Church . Secondly , a man is called a man excluding his soule , ( if your soule were in my soules stead . ) Therefore a man is a thing living , and a reasonable man without his soule : what vanity is here ! Fifthly , if the Church-Covenant be the essentiall forme of the Church , it is as accider tall to the well being of beleevers , as Officers are ; for they are the light of the world , the salt of the earth , which is more necessary then a Church-Covenant .

And Robinson saith a a p. 112 , 113. further , Two or three have received Christ , and his power and right to all the meanes of grace , and Christ and his power are not divided ; also the wife hath immediate right to her husbands person and goods for her use .

Answ. Two or three ( yea one beleever ) and these not entred in Church-state , but beleeving in Christ , have received Christ and his power in all Christian priviledges due to that state : True ; They have received Christ and his power in all ministeriall and Church-priviledges , it is false ; nor can our brethren admit of this by their grounds : for then should they have right in their owne person to preach pastorally , and administrate the Sacraments ; if Christ and the pastorall power to such acts cannot be divided , and if they have as immediate right to use the keys in pastorall acts as the wife hath to the husband and goods .

Also ( saith he ) b b Just. p. 1●7 ▪ Of the Churches of the Gentiles , some were converted to God by Apostles , others by private Christians , Acts 8. 12. and 10. 36 , 44 , 47 , 48. and 11. 19 , 20 , 21. and 13. 1 , 12 , 48. and 14. 1 , 7. Can we in reason thinks , during the Apostles absence , that the Churches never assembled together for edification in praying , prophesying , and other ordinances ? were not all they converts , who desired to be admitted to their fellowship ? Had they not use of excommunication ? The Apostles came but occasionally to the Churches , where they appointed Elders , Acts 14. 25. Why did Paul leave Titus at Crete , save onely that men of gifts might be trained up in prophesying ?

Answ. All here said is conjecturall , he cannot give us an instance of a Church exercising Church-power , and destitute of Officers , onely he saith , Can we conceive that in the Apostles absence there was no Church meetings for edification ? But were there no Elders and Officers in the Apostolike Church , but onely Apostles ? I thinke there have beene Pastors , and when the Apostles first left the planted Churches , can we conceive that they left new converted flockes without Pastors ? and if without Officers they met for prophecying , can wee conceive that they wanted the Seales of the Covenant ? certainly , Sacraments without Officers are no rules for us to follow . Secondly , of conversion by private persons , I purpose to speake hereafter ; if they preached , it is not ordinary , nor a rule to us . Thirdly , at Crete there have beene Preachers , but of government without them I see nothing ; since Elders Timothy and Titus are limitted in receiving accusation : against Elders , and are forbidden to lay hands suddenly on any man ; I see not how the people without Officers did this . It is good , that this Church that they give us , is all builded upon conjectures , and an unwritten Church is an unwritten tradition . If the Apostles appointed Elders in the Church for this end , to governe ; wee gather the contrary of your collections . Ergo , there was no government in the Churches before there were governours , for the end could not be existing in Gods wisdome without the meanes ; that watchmen should goe about the walls before the City bee walled , and discipline erected , I cannot conceive : without Officers , the ordinary disciplinators , the City of God can be no governing City .

It is ( saith he ) strange where multitudes are converted ; and that where neither Apostles nor Officers were present , that there were no Churches here ; it is grosse to say . That in the Apostles times nothing was begun but by them .

A. There was conversion of multitudes to the Lord ; Ergo , there was a Church-Covenant in stating them all in Church-State ; you cannot say it your selves . Secondly , it is not grosse , but Apostolike , that all new Acts of government should take their beginning from the Apostles , as the chusing of Matthias , Acts 1. the ordaining of Deacons , Acts 6. the preaching to the Gentiles , Acts 10. had their beginning from the Apostles , who founded and planted Churches .

3. Quest. Whether or not ordination of Elders may be by the Church of beleevers wanting all Elders or Officers .

Here these particulars must be discussed ; first , from whence is ordination of Elders from Elders or from the people . Secondly , if election by the people be all that is requisite in a lawfull calling . Thirdly , the argument from the calling of our reformers must be discussed .

For the first , observe the following considerations :

First , A succession in the Church is necessary ordinarily ; extraordinarily , and in cases of necessity it may be wanting . Secondly , we deny the popish succession to be a note of the Church , nor doe we in any sort contend for it . First , because a right succession must be a succession to truth of Doctrine , not personall or totall to the chaire and naked office . So a a T●rtul . de praescrip c. 32. Tertullian , and falshood may succeed to truth , sicknesse to health , as b b Naz. orat . 21. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Nazianzen . Yea , as c c Occam dial . p. 1. l. 4. c 9. & sect 5. c. 3. &c 28. qut sidem primitus fundavit catholicam , tot●st date pauperes , simplices ill●crator & rusticos in aedis●●ationem Eccles. orthodoxae . Occam saith , Laymen and Teachers extraordinarily raised up , may succeed to hereticall Pastors .

Secondly , there is succession to the errors of preceding teachers , either materiall without pertinacie , holding what they hold ; or formall to the same errors , with hatred of the truth and pertinacie ; the latter we reject , the former may be in lawfully called Pastors . See what Beza d d Beza to . 3● in . opusc . p. 140 , 141. saith of this . Neither will we here go from true succession , whereas e e Iren. l. 4. c. 43. Ireneus saith , men , Cum Episcopatus successione charisma veritatis acceperunt . And as f f Aug. de vinc . c. 16. Augustine , when they doe prove themselves to be the Church onely by Scriptures , non nisi caenonic is libris . Thirdly , we deny not but Asia , Africa , Egypt , and a great part of Europe heard not a word of Christ for a long time , as Binnius g g Binnius to . 4 p. 599. observeth in the h h Concil. lateran . c. 10. s. 8. iacet desolata Asia &c. La●eran Councell . And succession was interrupted many ages in the world , saith i i Prosper de voc t gent●um l. 2 c. 6. Prosper and k k Aug. de con e●s . Evang. s. 2. c. 31. Augustine . Nor can l l Bellarm de Pont. Rom. 3. cap. 4. Bellarmine deny it . 3. We desire that more may be seene of this also in m m lren . l. 3. c. 3. 〈◊〉 , n n Cyprian l. ● . cp. 6. Cyprian , o o 〈◊〉 165 Augustine . And a great Iesuit p p 〈…〉 . The 〈◊〉 9 do eccles. sect . 7. n. 6 Suariz in words passeth from this note . The Epistles of A●acletus to all ingenious men , except to such as Stapleton , are counterfeit ; and the Greeke Church hath as much of th●s as the Roman , and more . Antiochia , Alexandria , and Constantinople , may say more for it also .

3 Distinct. It is one thing to receive ordination from a P●●lat● lawfully and another thing to receive lawfull ordination . The former w● deny ; Ministers si●ne who receive ordination from a Pr●late , as they sinne , who receive baptisme from the Romish Church ; yet is the ordination lawfull and valid , because Prelacy , though different in nature from the office of a true Pastor , is consistent in the same subject with the Pastors office .

4. Distinct. Though election by the people may make a minister in some cases , yet it is not the essentiall cause of a called Pastor , as a Rose caused to grow in winter by art is of that same nature with aR●se produced by nature in summer , though the manner of production be different . So are they both true Pastors , those who have no call ba● the peoples election , and those who have ordination by Pastors .

5. Distinct. The substance and essence of ordination ( as we sh●● after heare ) consisteth in the appointing of such for the holy ministery by persons in office . All the corrupt rites added to this by Papists , take not away the essence and nature of ordination . For the Greeke Church , even this day at Rome , receiveth ordination by imposition of hands , & not by the reaching a cup and a platter , and that with the Popes good will . Whereas the Lati● Church have far other Ceremonies following the decree of E●ginius the fourth , and the common way of Rome , approved by q q Innocent . 4. ca. de Sacram. non iteran . tis . Innocentius the third , and yet they grant both wayes of ordinations lawfull ; because as r r Bell. tom . 2. 〈◊〉 sacr. or . l. l. 8. c 9. Bellarmine , s s Uasquez In 3. part . Theol. disp . 239. Uasq●● t t Joan de lugo to●n . de sacra . disp. 2 sect 4. n. 86. Joan. de Lugo the Popes Professor this day at Rome saith , These are but accidents of ordination ; and because ( say they ) Christ ordained that this Sacrament should be given by some materiall signe , but whether by imposition of hands , or otherwise , he hath not determined in individuo ( particularly : ) see for this , Peter Arcudius his reconciliation of the Easterne and We●erne Church u u Petr. Arcudites de co ●cor . Eccles. Occ. & orient . in sacra . administrat . l. 6. c. 4. cired initium rapitis . in the Councell of Florence . x x Concil. Floren . The Greek Church is not blamed , though imposition of hands be commanded in b b Concil. Carthag . llll . c. an . 3 , 4. the Councell or Carthage . See that variations may be in a Sacrament , and yet such as make not the Sacrament invalid , in c c Sotus 4. d. 1. q. 1. art. 8. Sotus d d Suarez in 3 part . disp . 2. sect 5. Suarez , e e Vasq. in 3. part . disp . 129. c. 6. & c. 7. Vasquez , f f Joan. de lugo desacra . disp. 2. sect. 6. n. 104 , 105. Ioan. de Lugo , g g Scotus in . 4. disp. 3. q. 2. Scotus . But since h h Robins . Inst. sapa p 334. Robinson granteth , that the Baptisme of the Romish Church is not to be repeated , ordination of Pastors is of that same nature , and must stand valid also .

Hence our first conclusion . In cases of necessity , election by the people onely may stand for ordination , where there be no Pastors at all . This is proved before by us ; i i Ut supra ; first , because God is not necessarily tied to succession of Pastors . Secondly , because where men are gifted for the worke of the ministery , and there be no Pastors to be had , the giving of the holy Ghost is a signe of a calling of God , who is not wanting to his owne gracious intention , though ordinary meanes faile . And see for this that learned Voetius k k U●et . disp. causa Papatus . l. 2. sect 2. c. 20. & c. 21. p. 263 , 264 , 265. Nor do we thinke that we are in this straited , as the Papist Iansenius l l Apud Uoetium loc. cit . in that place saith , That wee must wait for an immediate calling from Heaven , as also m m Robinson Just. sepa . Robinson saith .

2. Conclus . Thence may well be deduced that they are lawfull Pastors , and need not a calling revealed , who , in cases of extraordinary necessity , are onely chosen by the people , and not ordained by Pastors ; and that Pastors ordained by Pastors , as such , are Pastors of the same nature ; as Matthias called by the Church , and Paul immediately called from Heaven , had one and the same office by nature .

3. Conclus , The established and setled order of calling of Pastors , is by succession of Pastors to Pastors , and Elders by Elders , 1 Tim. 5. 22. Lay hands suddenly on no man . 2 Tim. 4. 14. Neglect not the gift which was given to thee by proph●cie , with the laying on of the hands of the Elders . Secondly , the practice of the Apostles is our safe rule , because at all ordination of Church-officers the Apostles and Pastors were actors and ordainers , as Acts 1. 15 , 16. Acts 6. 2. 3. Acts. 14. 23. 1 Cor. 3. 6. Tit. 1. 5. and this a a Robinson Iust. of sepa . p 327. Robinson granteth , because the charge of all the Churches did lie on the Apostles . As also before the Law , the people did not ordaine the Priest hood , but God ordained the first borne by succession to be teachers and priests ; b b Gen. 21. 9. Gen 25. 31 , 32 Num. 3. 12 , ●2 Num. 8 , 15 , 16 and after he chose the Tribe of Levi , without consent of the people , though the Princes and heads of Tribes said hands upon them . And also God of sundry other Tribes raised up Prophets , and did immediately call them , they had onely of the people not the calling , bu●●●t the least the silent approbation of the faithfull amongst the people . Christ comming in the flesh chose twelve Apostles not knowing either the governing Church or the people ; at length , when the Apostles established a Church-government , and a Pastor to a certaine flocke , they ordained that the ch●sing of the man should be with consen of the people , and beg●n this in Ma●thias , then the seven Deacons , then Acts 14. 23. Elders were chosen by lasting up of the peoples hands . But that persons were ordained Pastors and sanctified , and set apart for the worke of the ministery , by the authority of the sole multititude , and that without all Officers , we never read . And the laying on of the hands we see not in the New Testament ; we shall be d●si●ous to be informed of this by our deare brethren , and intreat them in the feare of the Lord to consider of an unwritten calling of a Ministery . Thirdly , if ordination of Pastors bee laid downe in the Apostolike Canons to Officers , as Officers , then is not this a charge that doth agree to the people , especially wanting Officers . But the former is true ; Ergo , so is the latter . I prove the proposition : What is charged upon Officers as Officers cannot be the charge of the people , because the people are not Officers . I prove the assumption , because 2 Tim. 2. 1 , 2. To commit to faithfull men the things of the Gospell , which Timothy heard Paul preach , is a charge laid on Timothy in the very tearms , that he is vers. 4. not to intangle himselfe with the affairs of this life , but to be separated for preaching the Gospell , from all worldly imployment ; as a Souldier sworne to hi● Captaine , can attend no other calling , vers. 5. and as he is to put other Pastors in minde of these things , and to charge them that they strite not about words ; and as he is to be an approved workman , dividing the word aright , vers . 14. 15. But these are laid upon Timothy as a Pastor . So 1 Tim. 5. as he sheweth the honour and reward due to Elders , so doth he charge Timothy not to heare accusations of Elders , but upon two or three witnesses testimony , which is the part of Church-Iudges ; even as hee is to rebuke sinne publikely , that others may feare , vers . 19 , 20. So according to that same office , must imposition of hands be conferred upon Pastors advisedly , vers. 22. As the Apostle commandeth all beleevers to lay hands suddenly on no man . Also Paul would have said , I left a Church of beleevers at Crete to appoint Elders in every City ; if it be the Churches part , even though destitute of Elders to appoint Elders over themselves , but by what po●er Titus was to rebuke sharpely the Cretians , that they may be found in the saith , by that power was he left at Crete to appoint Elders in every City ; but this is an officiall power , Titus 1. 13. due to Bishops , as a part of their qualification , vers. 9.

4. Argu. The speciall reason against ordination of Elders , by Elders onely , is weake ; and that is , a succession of Pastors must be granted ever since the Apostles times , which is ( say ourbrethren ) Popish . This reason is weak , because a succession of Elders and Pastors , such as we require , is no more popish then a succession of visible beleevers ; and visible Churches ordaining Pastors , is popish : but our brethren maintaine a succession of beleevers and visible prosessors since the Apostles daye . Secondly , we deny the necessity of a succession perpetuall , which papists hold . Thirdly , we maintaine onely a succession to the true and Apostolike Doctrine : papists hold a visible Cathedrall succession to the chaire of Rome , and titular office of Peter .

4. Quest. Whether or not our brethren doe prove that the Church of believers have power to ordaine Pastors ?

In answering our brethrens reasons ; I first returne to our Author ; secondly , I obviate what our brethren say in the answer to a a Quest. 13. the Questions sent from old England ; and thirdly , shall answer Robinsons arguments .

Our b b The way of the Churches of Christ in new England , c. 2. sect. 6. Author saith , Beleevers have power to lay hands on their Officers , because to them Christ gave the keyes ; that is , the ministeriall power of binding and loosing , Matth. 16. 16 , 17 , 18. and Acts 1. The voices of the people went as farre as any humane suffrages could goe , of an hundred and twenty they chose two . And Acts 14. 23. The Apostles ordained Elders by the lifting up of the hands of the people . Acts 6. They are directed to looke out and chuse seven men to be Deacons . And the ancient Church did so from Cyprians words , c c Cyprian epist. 4. l. 4● . Vlebs vel maxime potestatem habet , vel dign●s sacerdotes eligendi , vel indignos recusandi .

Answ. The places Math. 16. and 18. give , to some power ministeriall to bind and loose , open and shue , by preaching the Gospell , and administring the Sacraments , as to stewards the Keyes of an house are given : but this power is given to Elders o●ely , by evidence of the place , and exposition of all Divines . 2. If the ministeriall power and the warrantable exercise thereof , be given to all ; then are all Ministers ; for the faculty and exercise doth denominate the subject and agent ; but that is false by d d

1 Cor. 4. 1 , 2.

1 Cor. 3. 6.

2 Cor. 4. 1.

2 Cor. 5. 18 , 20.

1 Cor. 12 28.

Ephes. 4 11.

Scripture . 2. That all the hundred and twenty did ordain● Matthias an Apostle , Act. 1. is not said , they did nominate and present him . 2. they did choose him . But authoritative separation for the Office was Christs and his Apostles worke . 3. That women , and Mary the mother of Iesus , v. 14. being there , had voice , and exercised authority in ordaining an Apostle cannot be orderly . Yea the Apostles names are se● downe , and these words , V. 23. and they appointed two , are relative to v. 17. these words , For he was numbred with us the Apostles , and to these V. 21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us , &c. and to these v. 22. must one be ordained to be witnesse with us of his resurrestion , and they appointed two , that is , the Apostles ; and the rest are set downe as witnesses , v. 14. These continued , that is the Apostles , with the women , and Mary the mother of Iesus , &c. The women and others were onely consenters . 3. Here is no probation , that onely a company of believers wanting Pastors are ordainers of Matthias to the Apostleship , and this is the question . 4. The place Act. 14. 23. proveth that Elders appoint or ordaine Elder . with consent , or lifting up of the hands of the people , which is our very doctrine . 5. Act. 6 ▪ The multitude are directed to choose out seven men , as being best acquainted with them . Yet if Nicholas , the sect master of the fleshly Nicolaitans was one of them ; it is likely they were not satisfied in conscience of the regeneration of Nicholas , by hearing his spirituall conference and his gift of praying , which is your way of trying Church-members . But 2. they looke out seven men . 2. They choose the● . But v. 6. The Apostles prayed , and laid their hands on them ( which we call ordination ) and not the multitude . 6. Cyprian give●● election of Priests to the multitude , but neither Cyprian , nor any of the Fathers give ordination to them .

Author Sect. 7. If the people have power to elect a King , they have power to appoint one is their name to put the crown on his head . Ergo , if beleevers elect their Officers they may by themselves or some others lay hands on them and ordaine them .

Ans. The case is not alike , the power of electing a King is naturall , for Ants and Locusts have it , Prov 30 25 , 16 , 27. Therefore a civill Society may choose and ordaine a King . The power of choosing Officers is 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a supernaturall gift . And because God giveth to people one supernaturall gift , it is not consequent that he should give them another , also beside ordination is another thing , then coronation of a King . Presbyters in the Word have alwaies performed ordination . Manuscript .

Neither will it hence follow ( saith the Authour ) as some object ( a ) Way of the Churches of Christ in new England , ch. 1. sect 2. that because the Church of believers neither make the Office nor authority of Pastors , that both are immediately from Christ , and that therefore the beleevers may not lay hands upon the Officers ; nor doth it follow , because they receive ordination from the Church , that therefore they should execute their Office in the Churches name ; or that they should be more or lesse diligent at the Churches appointment , or that the Church of beleevers have a Lordly power over them , or that the Elders must receive their commission from the Church , as an Ambassadour doth from the Prince who sent him , or that the Church in the defect of Officers may performe all duties proper to Officers , as to administer the Sacraments . For 1. most of the objections doe strike as much against imposition of hands by Bishops and Presbyters . 2. Though Officers receive the application of their office and powerly the Church , yet not from the Church ; and if from the Church , yet not from her by any Lordly power and dominion , but onely ministerially as from instruments under Christ , so that they cannot choose or ordaine whom they please , but onely him whom they see the Lord hath fitted and prepared for them ; nor can they prescribe limits to his Office , nor give him his Embassage , but onely a charge to looke to the Ministery that he hath received of the Lord .

Ans. 1. I know none of ours who use such an Argument , that because a Pasters or Elders Office is from Christ , that therefore the Church cannot ordaine him . For it should prove that the Presbyterie cannot ordaine him a Pastor , because his Office is from Christ and not from the Presbyterie . It would prove also , that because the Office of a Judge is from God , that the free States of a Kingdome could not ordaine one to be their King ; or that the King could not depute Judges under him , because the Office of a King and Judge is from God , and not from men .

2. If Elders have their Ordination to that heavenly Charge from the people , as from the first principall and onely subject of all ministeriall power , I see not how it doth not follow , that Elders are the servants of the Church in that respect ; and that though it doth not follow , that they come out in the name of the Church , but in the name of Christ , whose Ambassadours they are , yet it proveth well that they are inferiour to the Church of beleevers . For 1. though the power of the Keys given to beleevers in relation to Christ be ministeriall , yet in relation to the Officers whom the Church sendeth , it is more then ministeriail , at lest it is very Lordlike . For as much of this ministeriall power is committed to the Church of possibly twenty or forty beleevers , as to the Mistresse , Lady , Spouse , and independent Queen , and highest dispencer of all ministeriall power ; and the Elders , though Ambassadours of Christ , are but meere accidents or ornaments of the Church , necessary ad benè esse onely , and lyable to exauthoration at the Churches pleasure ; yea , every way the Officers in jurisdiction are inferiour to the Church of beleevers , by your grounds , and not over the people of the Lord . For if the Church of believers , as they are such , be the most supreame governing Church , then the Officers , as Officers , have no power of government at all , but onely so farre as they are beleevers ; now if they be not believers ( as it falleth out very often ) then have they no power of the Keyes at all , and what they doe , they doe it meerely as the Churches servants , to whom the Keyes are not given marriage-waies , or by right of redemption in Christs blood : yea , Officers as they are such , are neither the Spouse , not redeemed Church , yea nor any part , or members of the redeemed Church . 2. The Church of believers are the ●od , the Officers meanes leading to the end , and ordained to gather the Saints ; if therefore , as the end , they shall authoritatively send Officers , they should call and ordaine Officers as the States of a Kingdome , with more then a power ministeriall ; Yea with a Kingly power , for all authority should be both formally and eminently in them , as all Regall or Aristocraticall power is in the States of a Kingdom , as in the fountaine .

But neither doe we bring this argument to prove a simple Dominion of the Church of believers over the Officers , or a power of regulating , limiting , and ordering the Ambassage of Officers , as King and State lay bands upon their Ambassadours ; but we bring it to prove that this doctrine degradeth the Officers from all power of government above the believers , and putteth them in a state of ministeriall authority under these , above whom Jesus Christ hath placed them , contrary to a a Ier. 1. 10. Ioh. 10. 35 , 36. Rom. 12. 7 , 8. 1 Cor. 12. 17 , 18 , 28 , 29. Ephes. 4. 11. 2 Cor. 10. 8. 1 Thes. 5. 1● . Heb. 13. 17. 1 Tsm. 3 4 , 5. 1 Tim. 5. 17. 19 20. 21. Acts 20. 28. Tit. 1. 5. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Revel. 2. 1. Scripture .

3. The Authour saith , believers may not administer the Sacraments in the defect of Pastors , because that , by appointment of Christ , belongeth onely to such as by Office are called to preach the Gospell , Math. 28. 29. which is indeed well said ; but I desire to be satisfied in these . 1. These places Math. 28. 29. Mar. 16. 14 , 15. Luke 24. 28. being all one with Math. 16. 17. and Joh. 20. 21 , 22 , 23. The Keyes of the Kingdome are given to Church-officers because of their Office . So the Text is cleare , and so the ancients have taught , as Tertullian , Irenaeus , Origen , Cyrill . Theophylact. Oecum●nius ▪ Clemens Alexandrin ▪ Iustin Martyr , Chrysost. August . Hilarius , Ambrose , Basil. Epiphanius , Ierome , Eusebius , Cyprian , Damascen , Beda , Anselme , Bernard . So our Divines , Calvin , Luther , Beza , Martyr , Iunius , Bullinger , Gualt●r , Daneus , Ti●enus , Bucanus , Trelcatius , Piscator , Pareus , Tossanus , Polanus , Decolampadius , Bucer , Hipperius , Viret , Zuinglius , Fennerus , Whittakerus , Feildus , Reynoldus , Anto. Wallaeus , Profess . Leydens . Magdeburgersis , Melanthon , Chemnitius , Hemingius , Aretius . Then the Keyes be given to Church-officers , because they are Officers , and Stewards of the Kingdome . And you will have the Keyes to be given to believers as believers , and as the Spouse of Christ . Now Elders and believers may be opposed , as believers and no believers , as the Church of the redeemed , and not the Church of the redeemed , but the accidents onely of that Church ; as you teach , and as the Spouse of Christ and his body , and not the Spouse nor his body . I see not by our brethrens doctrine that Officers as Officers have any right title or warrant to the Keyes , or to any use of them , seeing they are given to believers as believers , and as Christs body and Spouse . 2. The place Matth. 28. 19. is against you ; for you say , that Pastorall preaching and administration of the Seales are given onely to such as are Preachers by office . Now the converting of infidels and other unbelievers , to make them fit materials of a visible Church , is not ( as you say ) the charge proper to Pastors as Pastors , and by vertue of their Pastorall charge , as baptizing ; by this place is their proper charge , because Pastors as Pastors convert none at all , nor can they as Pastors exercise any pastorall acts toward the un-converted ; the un-converted by your way are under no Pastorall charge , but converted by Prophets , not in Office ; Pastors as Pastors exercise all pastorall acts toward these onely who are members of a visible Church , as toward these onely who have professed by oath subjection to their ministery , ad are partakers of the precious faith , and are the sonnes and daughters of the Lord God Almighty . So you teach . So by this Text , Pastors as Pastors cannot convert infidels , and we desire a warrant from Gods Word for the pastorall acts in converting soule● ; yea , seeing by this place persons out of office onely doe convert soules by your doctrine , with all reason persons out of place should baptize , for teaching and baptizing here , and by your owne doctrine are of a like extent . See to this , and satisfie us in this point of such consequence as everteth the ministery of the New Testament , which we believe our brethren intend not , being so direct Anabaptatisme and Socinianisme , points that , we know , our deare brethren doe not love or affect .

The Author addeth , He who said to the Apostles , Whose sinnes ye retaine they are retained , and whose sinnes ye remit they are remitted , Joh. 20. 23. He also said to the Church , Whatsoever ye bi●● on earth shall be bound in Heaven . Math. 18. 18. Which is a Commission of the same power , and to the same ●ffect ; and so the Apostles and the Churches both received the same power immediately from Christ : and therefore though the Church presented their Officers chosen by themselves to receive ordination from the Apostles , 〈◊〉 now when the Apostles are ceased , and no other successors left in t●●● roome from whom their officers might receive ordination , but fr●● the Presbyterie of their owne Churches ; where such a Presbytery is yet wanting , and is now to be erected , the Church hath full power to give ordination to them themselves , by the imposition of their hands .

Answ. If the Reverend Authour had framed an Argument here , it should have been thus : Those who have received immediately from God a Commission of the same power , and to the same effect , by the Text Math. 18. 18. Which the Apostles of our Lord received by the Text , Joh. 20. 23. These may doe what the Apostles did in ordaining of Elders , seeing they are the successors of the Apostles , where there be no Elders .

But the Church of believers received the same Commission , Matth. 18. 18. which the Apostle did Joh. 20. 23. and where Edders are wanting in the Church , the Church of believers is their successors . Erge . &c.

First , the assumption is false ; for if the Church receive the same Commission Math. 28. The Apostles received Joh. 20. and you must adde Math. 28. 19. for the same Commission is given to the Apostles , Math. 28. 19. which is given Joh. 20. 23. But the Disciples received Commission , Ioh. 20. and Math. 28. of Pastorall binding and loosing , and preaching , by vertue of their Office ; and to administer the Sacraments in their owne persons , as you grant : therefore the Church of believers received commission from Christ ( where Presbyters are not ) to preach by vertue of an Office , and administer the Sacraments in their owne persons . Ergo , the Church of believers may , where there is no Presbytery , preach by verue of an Office , and administer the Sacraments . You will happily say , there is no such necessity of baptizing as of ordination of Ministers , and baptizing is incommunicable , because we read not that any in the Apostolique Church baptized , but Pastors . I answer , there is , in an extraordinary necessity where there are no Presbyters at all , as little necessity of ordination if there be Presbyters in other Congregations to ordaine ▪ And since you never read that any in the Apostolique Church ordained Pastors , but Pastors onely ; why , but we may have recourse to a Presbytery of other Congregations for ordination , as well as for baptizing ; for it is petitio principii , a begging of the question , to say that baptizing is proper to Pastors , but ordination is not so . yea but ordination by precept & practice is never given but to Pastors , and Elders in consociation 1 Tin . 4 14 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 2 Tim. 2. 2 , 3. Tit. 1. 5. Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3 Act. 14 23. 2. There is good reason why Pastors should be successours of the Apostles in the act of ordaining Pastors ; & you grant , where Pastors and Elders are , they succeed to the Apostles in the acts of ordination ; but that all believers men and women should be the Apostles successours to ordaine Pastors , is a rare and unknowne case of Divinity , for 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Apostles ? are all Prophets ? Yea , not long agoe you said that Act. 1. an hundred and twenty , amongst whom there were women , had all hand in the ordination of Matthias to be an Apostle ; so that beleevers by you are made the Apostles successours ; and more , yea even co-ordainers , and joynt-layers on of hands with the Apostles . Yea , if believers received immediately this same Commission from Christ , Math. 18. which the Apostles received Ioh. 20. Believers are to ordaine Pastors no lesse , when the Presbytery and Elders are present , then when they are absent ; yea , and rather then the Apostles , because the Church of beleevers their patent passed the Seales first , even before the Lords resurrection . 3. It is good you grant that ordination and election are different , we will make use of it hereafter .

The Authour addeth , We willingly also acknowledge , where God Ib. sect. 8. hath furnished a Church with a Presbytery , to them it appertaineth by imposition of hands to ordaine Elders and Deacons chosen by the Church ; but if the Church want a Presbytery , they want a Warrant to repaire to other Churches to receive imposition of hands to their Elders . 1. Because ordination is a worke of Church power , now as Church hath power over another , so no Presbytery hath power over another Church then their owne ; All the Apostles received alike power , Ioh. 20. 23. 2 The power of the keyes is a liberty purchased by Christs blood , Math. 28. 8. Phil. 2. 8 , 9 10. Therefore it is unlawfull for any Church to put over that power into the hands of another .

Answ. We desire a warrant from Gods Word , where Elders , where they are present , are to ordaine Elders by imposition of hands , and not believers ; for ordination is a worke of the Church ; Officers are not the Church , nor are they parts or members of the Church , but onely accidents ; the Church hath its full being , the power and use of the Keyes given to them by Math. 18. though there be not a Pastor or Officer among them ; and if Christ before his resurrection gave the Keyes to beleevers as to his Spouse , living body , and such as have Peters faith Math. 16. Resolve us , we beseech you brethren , in this , how Christ can give the Keyes after his resurrection , Ioh. 20. 23. to the Apostles as Pastors , and as no believers , not his Spouse , not his body ; for Officers , as Officers , are not the redeemed of God , nor Christs Spouse . If you say that Christ , Ioh. 20. gave the Keyes to his Disciples as beleevers , then he gave the power of baptizing after his resurrection also , by the parallel place Math. 28. 19. to the Apostles as to beleevers . Hence 1. Christ hath never given the Keyes to Officers as Officers . 2. The place Ioh. 20. is but a renewing of the Keyes given to the Church , Math. 16. and Math. 18. and all believers are sent and called to be Pastors , as the Father sent Christ , and as Christ sent his Apostles , as our Lord speaketh , John 20. 21. This I thinke all good men will abhorre , though M. Smith saith these words , and that power Iohn 20. 21. was given to Cleo●has and Mary Magdalen . And by your way , Paul ( as I thinke ) without warrant interdicted women of the use of that power , that Christ purchased by his blood . 3. There is no warrant of the Word to make good , that Christ gave the Keyes to Officers as Officers , by your way , but onely to Officers as to beleevers ; and therefore believers ought rather to ordaine Pastors then the Officers , though there be Officers to ordaine . 3. That Pastors of other Congregations may not ordaine Pastors to Congregations , who have no Pastors of their owne . as they may baptize infants to them also , we see no reason . Yea , and Church power is not a thing that cannot be communicated to another Church by your Doctrine , for ye grant members of one Congregation may receive the Lords Supper in another Congregation , except you deny all communion of sister Churches , for it is a worke of Church power to give the Lords Supper to any , then if you give that Sacrament to members of another Congregation ; consider if the liberty purchased by Christs Blood be not communicable to other Churches .

Thirdly , ( saith he ) if one Church repaire to another Church for ordination , they may submit to another Church for censuring of offenders , now how can Churches censure these that are not members ? Is not this a transgression of the Royall Law of governement ? Mat. 18. 15 , 16 , 17 , 18.

Answ. The offence being great , and the offender deserving to be cast out of all the visible congregations round about , yea and to be bound in Earth and Heaven , the congregation is to have recourse to all the congregations consociated , when they are convened in one presbytery ; that they , being convened in their principall members , may all cast him out , because it concerneth them all : as if onely one congregation doe it , they transgesse that royall Law , Quod omnes tangit , ab omnibus tractari debet . 2. The Author granteth , that the Church presented Vbi sup. sect . 7. c. 2. their officers chosen by them , to receive ordination from the Apostles ; Ergo , The Church did give a way their liberty of ordination , bought by Christs bloud , to the Apostles , not as to Apostles , but as to pastors : which is against our Brethrens Doctrine ; for except the Apostles bee said to ordaine Officers , as Pastors , and not as Apostles , our Brethren shall find none to be the successors of Apostles in the power of ordination , but onely Believers ; so Pastors have no power at all to ordaine Pastors , the contrary whereof our Brethren teach .

Now I come to the Brethrens minde in their Questions . It was objected a a Quest. 21. How can it be lawfull for meere lay and private men to ordaine Elders ? they answer , the persons ordaining are the publick assembly , and so cannot , in any congruity of speech , be called meere Lay-men .

I answ . Seeing they have no Church office , they can be nothing , but meere private men ; For the unwarrantable action of ordination maketh them not publick Officers . As if a Midwife baptize in the name of the Church , shee is not a meere private person .

2. They say , The Church hath power from Christ for the greater , to wit , for Election ; Ergo , she hath power to doe the lesse , which is ordination ; or ordination dependeth upon Election , and it is nothing but the putting of a person in actuall possession of that office , wherunto he had right by Election .

Answ. Ordination , by your owne grant , is more then Election , for the Apostles ordained , Acts 6. and must have done the most , and the multitude elected the seaven Deac̄ons , Acts 6 2. Ordination is more then the installing of a person chosen , it is a supernaturall act of the Presbytery separating a man to an holy calling , election is posterior to it , and is but an appropriation of a called person his Ministery , to such a particular flock .

3. Say they ; Ordination may be performed by the Elders , where there be Elders , 1 Tim. 4. 14. yet it is an act of the whole Church , as Quest. 21. the whole man seeth , but by the Eye .

Answ. Though you say , Pastors in the Churches name baptize , yet doth it not follow ; Ergo , where Pastors are not , the Church of believers may baptize .

4. They object , when the Church hath no Officers , the prime grave m●n performe ordination ; as Nu● . 8 , The Israelites layd on Hands on the Levites , that is , some prime Man layd on hands .

Answ. Israel wanted not Officers . 2. These prime Men are called the Congregation ; Ergo , there is a representative Church .

5. They object ; If B lievers may not ordaine , it shall follow either that Officers may minister without ordination , against the Sripture , 1 Tim. 4. 14. Heb. 6. 1. or , by vertue of ordination received in another Church , they might minister . Now if this be , we establish an i●d●l●ble character of Papists , but if being called to another Church , there be need of a new Election , then there is need of a new ordination , for that dependeth upon this ; Ergo , then ordination commeth by succession , but we see not what authority ordinary officers have to ordaine Pastors to a Church , whereof themselves are not members .

Answ. 1. That ordination be wanting , where Ministers are wanting , is extraordinary , and not against , 1 Tim. 4 14. No more then that one not baptized for want of a Pastor should yet believe in Christ . 2. We see no indeleble Character , because a Pastor is alwayes a called Pastor ; if the man commit scandals , the Church may call all his character from him , and turne him into a meere private man . But to renew ordination , when election to another congregation is renewed , is to speake ignorantly of ordination and election : for election maketh not the man a Minister , nor giveth him a calling , but appropriateth his Ministery to such a flock . But they speake of Election to a charge as of marriage , which is not well understood , for by marriage a man is both made a Husband , and a Husband to this Wife onely : by election a Pastor is not made a Pastor , by ordination he is made a Pastor of the Church Universall , though hee be not made an Universall Pastor . 3. The ordination by succession of Pastors , where Pastors are , you hold your selves . But a popish personall succession , wee disclaime , as well as you doe :

The 5. Objection I omit to another time . The 6. * * 6. Reas. ib. Objection is ; If there be a magistrate before , the succeeding magistrate receiveth keys or ( word from the preceding magistrate : but if there be none , he receiveth them from the people . So here .

Answ. Christs calling is not ordered according to the patterne of civill governments , his kingdome is not of this world . People may both ordaine and elect to a civill office , without consent of the preceding Magistrate . But we reade of no officers ordained by the people , only in an ordinary way .

Ordination ( say they ) is not of such eminency as is conceived , it is not mentioned in the Apostles first commission , Mat. 28 , 19. Marke 16. 15 , 16. The Apostles accompted preaching and praying principall . So a a Perkins . on Gala. Perkins b b Willet synop . con . 1. 4 , 3. p. 371. Willet c c Whittaker de eccles. q. 5. c. 6. Whittaker , d d Ames . Bel. l●m . enerv . de cler. l. 3. de ordin . c. 2. Amesius .

Answ. So answer Arminians e e Apol. Remostran . c. 21. ● . 227 missio seu ordinatio Episcoporum non est ●am necessaria in ecclesia constitut● . and so doth the Socinian f f Nicola●d . in d●s●tract . de miss. min. c. 1. ● . 144. In c●●ombus Apostolorum , quibus describuntur om●●● . quae pertinent ad constituend●● Episcopos & Doctores , quon●am nulla sit mentio missionis ( ordinatio is ; ) h●nc concludinus eam ad ips● muneris Episcopalis substantiā & naturam nul●o modo requi●i . Theol. Nicolaides , and g g Socinus in loc. ad Rom. 10. Socinus ; and so in your words saith h h Ostorodius in de sens . de Eccles. & miss. Ministr● . adversus M●edzeboz . c. 1. f. 10● . & . c. 2. falsum est Apostolos semper requisivisse in Ministro ordinationem . to reforme , but this is not to take away the necessity of ordination , by Pastors .

I come now to answer , what Mr. Robinson doth adde , to what is said for the ordination of Pastors by Pastors , and not by single Believers , Mr. Robinson i i Robins . Ins●i● . p. 325 , 326. saith , the question is , whether succession of Pastors be of such absolute necessity , as that no Minister can in any case be made but by a Minister , and if they must be ordained by popes , and prelates .

Answ. But we say that this is no question at all , wee affirme ordination of pastors not to be of that absolute necessity , but in an exigence of necessity the election of the people , and some other thing , may supply the want of it . Nor doe wee thinke a calling from papists no calling , as we shall heare : before I proceed this must be discussed .

Q. 5. UUhether Election of the people be essentiall to the calling of a Minister .

● . Election we are to consider , to whom it belongeth of right . 2. The force and influence thereof to make a Church-officer ; but let these considerations first be pondered .

1. Consid. Election is made either by a people gratious and able to discerne , or by a people rude and ignorant ; the former is valid , Jure & facto , the latter not so .

2. Consid. Election is either comparative or absolute ; when Election is comparative , though people have nothing possibly positively to say against a person , yet though they reject him and choose one si●ter , the Election is reasonable .

3. Consid. Peoples Election is not of a person to the Ministery as a Wi●is choyse of a man to be a Husband , but of a Minister ; Election doth not make a Minister .

4. Consid. Election is either to be looked to , quoad jus , or , quoad f●ctum . A people not yet called externally , cannot elect their own Minister , a Synod or others of charity ( as Reverend Junius a a Iunius contra Bellarm. de Cl●r . l. 1. c. 7. saith ) may chuse for them , though , de facto , and in respect of their case , they cannot chuse their own Pastor .

1. Conclus . The people have Gods right to chuse , for so the b b Acts 15. 22. 1 Cor. 16. 3. 1 Cor. 8. 19. Acts 6. 6. Acts 14. 23. word prescribeth . So c c Tertul. apol. . 39. Tertullian , d d Cyprian . l. 1. epist. 4. ad soeli . presbyterum . Eyprian . Non blandiatur sibi plebs , quasi immunis à contagione delicti esse possit , cum sacerdote peccatore communicans & ad injustum atque illicitum propositi Episcopatum consensum s●um accommodans , &c. and d d Cyprian cp . 9 c. 2. l. 2 ep. 5. nefas sine consensu po●uli : and this Cyprian writ an hundreth yeeres before the Nicen Councell . Bellarmine lo●ed hi● face e e Bellarmine . to say this custome began in the time of the Nicon Councell . It was not a consuetude f f Cyprian ep . 17 Qu●d ipsum ( inquit Cyprianus ) videmus de Divina autoritate descender● ; g g Ignatius ep , ad Philadelph . Ignatius , It is your part , as the Church of God to chuse the Pastor ; 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . So speaketh hee to the people of Philadelphia ; and so speaketh h h Ambros. ●p 32. quae est ad Valentin . Ambrose to Valentinian , Omitto , quia jam ipse populus judicavit , i i Origen H●m . 6. ad c. 8. Levit. Origen : Requiritur ergo in ordinando sacerd te praesentia populi , &c. and his reason is Scripture , a pastor must be of good report . And k k Chrysost. de sacerdot. l. 3. Chrysostome saith , all elections of pastors are null , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , without the conscience of the people . And the Councell of Nice did write this to the Bishops of Alexandria as l l Theodoret bist . l. 1. c. 9. Theodoret saith , and the fi●st generall councell of Constantinople wrote the same to Daemasus , Ambrose , and others , as m m Theodoret. bist . l. 5. c. 9. Theodoret also sheweth n n Concil. Africanum . The councell of Africa is cited by Cyprian producing Scripture , as Acts 1. 23. Acts 6. to prove that the people had their consent in elections ; and o o Con. Chalcedon . 1. 6. the councell of Chalcedon p p Concil. Ancyr. c. 18. the councell of Ancyron , and q q Conc. Laodic . can . 5. & can . 13 of Laodicea ; and the Popes owne r r Gratian. ex constis . 63 glossa ad regul . 29. Canons say this , s s Nicolaus papa c. in nomine d. 23. so Nicolaus the Pope in his Decrees saith , the Clergy and people did chuse the pope , Reliquus clerus & populus Romanus ad consensum nova electionis pontificis à Cardinalibus factae accedant . So t t Gelasius pap . ad Phil. & Ser. epist. dist. 62. Gelasius the pope writeth to Philippus and Cernuti●● Bishops , so Stephanus ad Romanum u u Dist. 62. archiepiscopum Rav●●natensem , is cited in the glosse to that purpose ; in x x Jvo Episcop. Carnatensis ep . 3. the Epistles of Ivo Bishop of Chartres , we being called , by the will of God , the Cle●gy and people of such a City , and this Pope Ur●●● practised upon Ivo .

2. Conclus . But elections in the ancient Church were not by one single congregation , but by the Bishops of diverse other Churches . In the y y Concil. Sardicens . ut ha be●ure . 3. dist. 65. councell of Sardis , Si unum tantùm in provincia contigerit remanere Episcopum , suporstes Episcopus con●●care debet Episcopos vicinae provinciae . & cum iis orainare sibi comprovincales Episcopos ; quod si id facero negligat , populus convocare debet Episcopos vicinae provinciae & peter● sibi rectorem . In the z z Concil. Tolet , 12. can . 6. ut citatur cum longe dist . 63. councell of Toledo it was ordained , that the Bishop of Toledo might chuse in quibustibee Pr●vinciis , in any provinces about Bishops to be his successors , salvo privilegio unius●njusqu● provinciae . Cardinalls are forbidden to usurp to chuse a Bishop , if the see vace in the time of a generall Councell , this was enacted in the councell of * * Concil , Constan . Sess. 24. Constance and a a Concil. Basil. Sess. 37. Basil. The Abbot of Panormo saith , it was obtained of the councell of Carthage b b In c. licet de electione dist. 2. to avoyde dissension , that they should transfer their right to the Cardinalls . So c c Jac. Ahnain de potest . Eccles. Almain and d d Ja. Gerson de potest Eccles. Gerson prove the equity of this by good reasons . That wicked councell of Trent , labouring to exalt the popes chaire , did abrogate these good acts to the offence of many , as the Author e e Review of the Councell of Trent . l 4. c. 1. of the review of the councell of Trent sheweth ; nor should good men stand for Leo his abrogation of what the councell of Basil did in this kinde , as may be seene in that wicked councell of Lateran f f Concil. L●teran . wherein much other wicked power is given to the pope and his Legates by Iulius III. and Paul the III. and Pius the IIII. and g g Theodoret. l. 5. c. 23. Theodoret saith , all the Bishops of a Province ought to bee at the ordination of a Bishop . The ordination of the worthy , Ambrose , as hee h h Ambros. Epist. 82. himselfe saith , was confirmed by all the Bishops of the East and West . Cornelius Bishop of Rome was confirmed by the Bishops of Africa . More of this may be seene in i i Zonaras in Con. Laodic . c. 1. & 5. Zonaras , In k k Theol. hist , l. 1. c. 9 Theodoret l l Concil. Carthag . an . 418. the councell of Carthage and m m Petru● a Navar. de rest . ablator . l. 2. c. 2. Petrus a Navarre , who all witnes ordination of a Bishop was never done in the ancient Church by one single Congregation , and these destitute of pastors and Elders . The learned say , that Gregory the VII . or Hildebrand did first exclude the people from voycing in elections of pastors . Illiricus sayth onely from the time of Frederick the XI . about the yeare , 1300 they were excluded from this power . And though it were true , that the election of Alexander the III. was made 400 yeeres before that , by the Cardinalls onely , without the peoples consent , the Law and Logick both say ; from one fact no Law can be concluded . Yea the election of Gregory the VII . ( saith n n Vasquez 3. 〈◊〉 . 3. disp. 144. c. 5. uum . 55. Vasquez ) was five hundred yeeres before that , and like enough that such a monster and such a seditious head to the Lords annoynted to Henry the IIII , as this Gregory was , could violate Christs order . o o Platin. i● vit. pontis . Platina sayth so ; yet Bellarmine , Suarez and others grant , in the Apostles time it was so ; b●● because it was a positive Law ( some say ) and others that it was a Church constitution , not a divine Law , the Pope might change it . Yet the Jesuite Sanctius p p Sanctius cō . Acts 14. 22. in his comment proveth it from Scripture , q q Azorius Instit. moral . par. 2. l. ● . c. 26. Azorius sayth , it should be common Law , communi jure , r r Krantius metropol . l. 8. c. 8. Krantius layeth the blame of wronging the people in this , on Gregory the IX . yea s s Concil. Bracar . c. 2. the councell of Bracare , the t t Concil. Nic. 11. ca. 3. second councell of Nice ; The councell of Constantinople . 4 called the eight generall Councell u u Concil. Constant . 4. c. 28. the councell of * * Conc. Laodic . c. 13. Laodicea are corruptly expounded by x x Bellarm. de cha. . 1. c. 2. & l. de ordin . c. 9. Bellarmin . y y Vasquez in 3. ●om . 3. de sacra . dis . 144. c. 5. V●squez and others : because . 1. They forbid onely disorder and confusion . 2. That all the multiude , without exceptionosage , gifts , or sexes , should come , and speak and voyce at the election . For in the councell of Antioch z z Concil. Antioch . it is expressely forbidden that the multitude should be debarred . And wee will not deny but a pastor may be sent to a Church of Infidels that knoweth nothing of Christ , without their knowledge , as a a Ruffinus Histor. l. 10. c. 9. Ruffinu● sayth , that Frumentius was ordained Bishop to the Indians , they knowing nothing of it , Indis nihil scientibus neque cogitantibus . Epiphanius writeth to Iohn Bishop of Ierusalem , that hee had ordained Paulinianus a presbyter , the people not consenting . Gregorius ordained Augustine Bishop of England and sent him to them to teach them , Anglis nescientibus . And Gregorius II. ordained Bonifacius a Bishop to bee sent to Germany , Germanis nihil de eare cogitantibus . And thus b b Perkins on Gal. 1. 8. Perkins , if the Gospell should arise in America , where there were no Ministers , ordination might be wanting . And why not ( say I ) election also in another case , if as c c Peter Martyr on Judg. c. 4. v. 5 Petrus Martyr sayth well ; a woman may be a Preacher of the Gospell ; Yea , and a Turke ( sayth d d Zanchius com . in , Eph. 5. Zanchius ) converted by reading the New Testament , and converting others , may baptize them whom hee converteth , and be baptized where both ordination and election should be wanting : and this may answer what e e Robinson Iustification of separ . p. 338 , 139 , 340. Robinson saith for ordination by the people .

Nor did the people first begin to have hand in election in f f Tertulliam Apologe● . c. 30. Tertullians time , as Bellarmine saith , nor yet that the people might love their Bishops , nor yet by meere custome .

Conclus . III. It is false our g g Quest. 20. Brethren say , that the calling of a Minister consisteth principally and essentially in election of the people , for the Apostles were essentially pastors , yet not one of them , except Matthias was chosen by the people . 2. If , as our Brethren say , the peoples after acceptance may supply the want of Election at first , as Iacobs after consent to Leah made her his Wife , yet all the pastorall acts of Word , Sacraments , and censures going before the after consent shall be null , because he wanteth that which most principally and essentially is required in a calling . And all baptized by him must be rebaptized . And what if the people shall never assent , and it is ordinary that hypocrites in hearts will never consent to the Ministry of a gratious pastor , shall his acts of converting , and baptizing be no pastorall acts , and to the hypocrites no pastorall acts : and shall all be Infidels , who are baptized by him ? The people are not infallible in their choise , and may refuse a man for a pastor , whom God hath called to be a pastor ; election maketh not one a pastor , in foro Dei , then he shall be no pastor whom God hath made a Pastor , because people out of ignorance or prejudice consent not to his Ministery . Nor are we of Dr. Ames judgement , that the calling of a Minister doth essentially consist in the peoples election ; for his externall calling consisteth in the presbyters separation of a man for such a holy calling , as the Holy Ghost speaketh . Wee finde no Church-calling in all Gods Word of sole election of the people , and therefore it cannot be the essentiall forme of a right calling . All the arguments of Doctor Ames prove , that election is necessary to appropriate a made Minister to such a Congregation , but concludeth not the poyn .

Qu. 5. From whence had Luther , Calvin , and our blessed Reformers their calling to the pastorall charge ?

This question there is moved because of our Brethren , who thinke . 1. If ordination of pastors by pastors , be so necessary for an ordinary calling to the Ministery , and if Election of people be not sufficient , though they want pastors and Elders then Luther and our Reformers had no calling , for they were called by the Pope and his Clergy , for saith n n Robinson Iustif. p. 119. Robinson when there be no 〈◊〉 Church-officers on Earth to give ordination , we must hold with Arrians , and expect new Apostles to give ordination ; neither can a true , pastor go and seek a calling from a false pastor . Hence observe carefully the following distinctions , to obviate both papists cavillations and our Brethrens doubts .

1. Distinct. That is . 1. Properly extraordinary , which is immediately from God , without any other intervening cause ; so Moses his calling , when God spake to him out of the Bush to goe to Pharaoh and command the letting goe of his people , was extraordinary , for , both the matter of the calling , and the persons designation to the charge was immediately from God Luthers calling this way was not extraordinary , because hee preached no new Gospell , nor by any immediate calling from God .

2. That is extraordinary which is contrary to the Law of of nature . Neither the calling of Luther nor of Hus and Wiccliff was extraordinary ; for , that any inlightened of God and members of the Catholick Church should teach , informe , o● helpe their fellow-members being seduced , and led by blind guides , is agreeable to the Law of nature ; but according to our Brethrens grounds Luthers calling here , was not onely extraordinary , but unlawfull and contrary to a Divine Law . For now when Apostles are ceased , Luher had no warrant ( if our Brethren say right ) no calling of God , to exercise pastorall acts of preaching , converting soules to Christ , and baptizing through many visible Churches & congregations , because that is ( say they ) Apostolick ; and no man now can bee a pastor , but in one fixed congregation whereof he is the elected pastor .

3. That is extraordinary , which is beside a Divine positi●● Law . So that one should be chosen a pastor in an Iland where there be no Elders nor pastors at all , and that the people onely give a calling , is extraordinary , and so it is not inconvenient tha● something extroardinary was in our reformers .

4. That is extraordinary , which is against the ordinary corruptions , wicked and superstitious formes of an ordinary caling : so , in this sense , Luher and our reformers calling was extraordinary .

2. Dist. A calling immediately from God , and a calling from God , some way extraordinary , are farre different . An immediate calling often requireth miracles to confirme it , especially the matter being new , yet not alwayes ; John Baptists calling was immediate , his Sacrament of Baptisme beside the positive order of Gods worship , yet hee wrought no miracles , but an extraordinary calling may be , where there is an immediate and ordinary revelation of Gods Will , and requireth not miracles at all .

3. Dist. Though ordinarily in any horologe the higher wheele should move the lower , yet it is not against ordinary art , that the hotologe be so made as inferiour wheeles may move without the motion of the superiour . Though by ordinary dispensation of Gods standing Law , the Church convened in a Synod should have turned about Hus , Wicliff , Luther , to regular motions in orthodox Divinity ; yet it was not altogether extraordinary , that these men moved the higher wheeles , and laboured to reforme them . Cyprian urged Reformation , Aurelius Bishop of Carthage , Augustin and the African Bishops did the like , the Bishop of Rome ●epining thereat It is somewhat extraordinary that Reformation should begin at Schollers , and not at principall Masters .

4. Dist. A calling may be expresly and formally corrupt , in respect of the particular intention of the ordainers , and of the particular Church , ex intentione ordinanris & operantis . Thus Luthers calling to bee a Monke was a corrupt calling , and eatenus , and in that respect hee could not give a calling to others . But that some calling may be implicitely and virtually good and lawfull in respect of the intention of the Catholick Church and ex inte●tione op●ris & ipsius ordinationis , he was called ●o preach the Word of God .

5. Dist. Luthers Oath to preach the Gospell did oblige him as a pastor , this is his calling according to the substance of his Office , and is valid ; but his Oath to preach the Roman Faith intended by the exacters of the Oath was eatenus , in so far ▪ unlawfull , and did not oblige him . Even a Wife married to a Turke , and swearing to bee a helper to her Husband in promoving the worship of the Mahomet , or being a papist is ingaged in an Oath to promote Romish Religion ; if shee bee converted to the true Faith of Christ , needeth not to be married de novo , but remaineth a married Wife ; but is not obliged by that unjust Oath to promove these false Religions , though the marriage Oath , according to the substance of marriage duties , tieth her .

6. Dist. A pastor may , and ought to have a pastorall care of the Catholick Church , as the hand careth for the whole body , and yet neither Luther nor Zuinglius are universall pastors , as were the Apostles . For they had usurped no power of Governing and Teaching all Churches : though , I professe , I see no inconvenience to say that Luther was extraordinarily called by God , to goe to many Churches , to others then to Wittenberg , where hee had one particular charge , yea even through Germany and the Churches of Saxony , and Zuinglius through the Helvetian and Westerne Churches , which yet doth not make them essentially Apostles , because . 1. They were not witnesses of Christs Death , and Resurrection , which as a new Doctrine to the World , as Apostles , they behoved to preach , Acts 1. v. 22. They only revealed the old truth borne downe by an universall Apostacy . 2. Because they were not immediately called , nor gifted with diverse Tongues . And the like I may say of Athanasius , for men in an extraordinary apostacy to goe somewhat farther then to that which a particular Church calleth them to , is not formally apostolick , yet lawfull .

7. A calling to the Ministery is either such as wanteth the essentialls , as gifts in any messenger , and the Churches consen● , or these who occupy the roome of the Church , the Church consen●ing , such a Minister is to bee reputed for no Minister . Or. 2. An entry to a calling , or a calling , where diverse of the Apostles requisites are wanting , may bee a valid calling , as if one enter as Caiphas who entered by favour and money , and contrary to the Law was High-Priest but for a yeer : ●yet was a true High-Priest , and prophecied as the High-priest .

8. If the Church approve by silence , or countenance the Ministery of a man who opened the Church doore to himselfe , by a silver key , having given the prelate a bud . The ordinance of God is conferred upon him , and his calling ceaseth not to be Gods calling , because of the sins of the instruments both taking and giving .

9. Though Luther was immediately called by Men An. 1508. by the Church of Wittenberg as may be seene a a Tom. 9. Wettenber . p. 104. in his writings as Gerard b b Gerard. lo●cem . to . 6 de minister . eccles sect . 8 p. 148. sheweth , and the Jesuit Becanus c c Be●an . in opulc de voc. min N T thil . 48. p. 128. saith , hee was called and ordained a Presbyter , and so had power to preach and administer the Sacraments , yet that hindereth not that his calling was ●●t from the Church , whereof hee was a member , that is from the Roman Church , and from God , and that his calling to cast downe Babylon was not from the Church of Rome : and his gifts being extraordinary . 2. His Spirit heroick and supernaturally couragious , and so extraordinary . 3. His Faith in his Doctrine greate , that hee should so bee blessed with successe in his Ministery extraordinary , his calling in these considerations may well bee called extraordinary , though not immediate or apostolick .

10. Then wee may well acknowledge a middle calling betwixt an ordinary and every way immediate calling , and an extraordinary and immediate calling , for the calling of Luther was neither the one , nor the other , in proper sense , but a middle betwixt two ; and yet not an immediate calling . See d d Saddeel adversus articul . Burdegal●uses Art . 5● p. 502. Sadaecl and e e Paraeus com . 1 ad Rom. 〈◊〉 .

11. The question , if such a pastor bee called lawfully , is a question of Fact not a question of Law ; as this , if such an one be baptized and there be an invincible ignorance in a question of Fact which excuseth . And therefore wee may heare a gifted pastor taken and supposed by the Church , to have the Churches calling , though indeed he received no calling from the Church , at his entry .

1. Conelus . To shew that our Church was a visible Church before Luther arose , and that our Reformers were lawfully called o● God , and h● Church , is a question of Fact : and cannot be proved by the Word of God . Because the Word of God is not a Chronicle of these who were the true Church and truly called to the Ministery since the Apostles departed this life . 2. Because these must be proved by Sense , and the Testimony of humane writtings , who can erre .

2. C●nclus . Yet may it be gathered from humane writers , that the visible Church of Protestants this day , hath beene since the Apostles dayes . I meane the determinate persons may be knowen by humane reasons and signes ; as . 1. If Orthodox Doctors are knowen to have lived in all ages since the Apostles it is likely that there was a visible Church , which approved of these Doctors ; and if we teach that same Doctrine in substance , that these Doctors did , then hath our Church , this determinate Church , beene since the Apostles time . But Orthodox Doctors are knowen to have lived in all ●ges as men of approved learning and soundnesse in the Faith ; Ergo , our present Church visible hath continued since the Apostles time . The proposition is probable , for these Fathers would not be so renowned , if the Church about them had not approved their Doctri● . It is probable ( I say ) because the writters against them have beene suppressed , false Teachers have beeve spoken of and renowned , and true Prophets ill reported of , Mat. 5. 11 , 12. I prove the assumption ; for there lived in the first age , Iohn the Baptist , the Apostles , and Polycarpus , the Scholler of Iohn ( as they say ) and Ignatius . And in the 2. age , Iustinus , Clemens Alexandrinus , Ireneus , Melito Sardensis , Theophilus . In the 3. age Tertullian , Cyprian , Dyonisius , Alexandrin , Methodi●s , Origen ; It is likely they opposed purgatory , prayer for the dead , reliques and the Popes supremacy , which in their seede did arise in this age . In the 4. age were Eusebius Caesariensis , Basilius , Athanasius , Magnus Gregorius , Nissenus , Nazian. Macarius , Cyrillus Bishop of Jerusalem , Arnobius , Lactantius , Ep●phanius , Optatus Melivitanus , Hilarius , Ambrose , Prudentius , Hieronymus , Ammonius , Ephrem , Faeustinus . I thinke they opposed the infallibility of councells , invocation of Saints , and the monastick life springing up in this age . In the 5. age were Anastasius , Chrysostome , Augustine , Alexandrinus , Theodoretus , Leo , Socrates , Vigilianus , Cassianus , Prosper , Elutherius , Marcus eremita , Marius Victorius . Wee conceive these opposed the corrupt Doctrine anent freewill , sinne originall , justification by works , mens merits . In the 6. age were Fulgentius , Cassiadorus , Fortunatus , Olympiodorus , Gregorius Mag●●s , Max●ntius ; These opposed the heresies of this age , as the Doctrine of worshipping Images , Indulgences , Satisfactions , Crossing , Pilgrimages , Service in an unknowen Tongue , Offerings for the dead , worshipping of Reliques of Saints , necessity absolute of Baptisme , the making the Sacrament a Sacrifice for the dead . In the 7. age being a time of Darknesse very few , Isiodorus , and few others , here the holiest opposed the Popes stile and place of being universall Bishop , and the abominable Sacrifice of the Masse . In the 8. arose Beda , Paulus Diaconus , Joann , Damascen , a superstitious Monke , Carolus Magus , Albinus ; In this age came in Transubstantiation , the Sacrament of penance , and confirmation . It was an evill time . In the 9. age were Rabanus , Haymo , Re●igius , Hinaemarus , Pashasius , then extreme unction , orders , and marriage were made Sacraments . In the 10. age was Theophylact , Smaragdus , Giselbertus . In the 11. Anselme , Algerus . In the 12. Schoole Doctors , such as Peter Cluniarensis , Alexander Alensis , Thomas Aquinas , Scotus , at length Luther and Melanthon came , but from these we build no infallible argument to prove our Church to be the true Church .

2. The very visible Church that now is , was in the Waldenses . 1. One of their owne writters a a Raynerus rerum Bohemic . script . p. 222. 223. Rainerus saith , quod duraverit à tempore Sylvestri , alii dicunt quod à tempore apostolorum , a Novator set out by the Jesuite Gretserus b b Petr. Pilichdorff . contra ●●aldenses c. 1. Petrus Pilichdorffius saith , they arose eight hundereth yeeres after Silvester in the time of Innocentius the 2. In the City of Walden in the borders of France one arose , who professed voluntary poverty , and because they were against preaching of the Gospell , he and his followers were excommunicated , but he is found a lier by popish writters who lived long before Innocentius the 2. and make mention of them . The articles of Iohn Hus , saith c c Aneas Sylvius hist. Bohe● . c. 35. Aeneas Silvius , cum confessionibus Calvinianorum consonant , and Silvius is not our friend . I grant d d Gretserus in exam. plessaeani myst . c. 63. Gretser denieth this , that the Faith of such as are called Calvinists agreeth with the articles of Hus ; because hee will have them grosser e e Flaccius in Catalog . Testim . verit . Flaccius saith these Waldenses called Leonistae , their Doctrine was spread , per L●mbardiam , Alsatiam , totum tractum Rhenanum , Belgicam , Saxoniam , Pomeraniam , Borussiam , Poloniam , Luciniam , Sueviam , Silesiam , B●h●miam , Moraviam , Calabriam , & Siciliam . Carolus Lotharingus f f Petr. Ram. Epist. ad Lotharing . ann. 1 570. the Cardinall complaineth , as also g g Hegesippus apud Euseb. l. 3. c. 32. Hegesippus , that for sixteene ages since Christ , the first onely was of God , and of the Church was a Virgin . And none made these complaints , but these who were Waldenses . So also complaineth h h Lactantius div. Instit. l. 5. c. 2. Lactantius , and i i Pelusiot . l. 3. Ep 408. Isiodorus pelus●ota : Why did l l Costerus . cont. Causab . p. 21. Costerus taking on him to prove the succession of the Roman Church for 1400 yeeres , leaves 300. years blanck , where hee cannot finde his Mother Church ; and yet m m Nicephor l. 2. c. 40. Nicephorus saith Simon Zelotes preached the Gospell in Maur●tania & Aphrorum regione , even to Brittaine , that is , to the end of the Earth , yea Balaeus , Flemingus , Sirop●s say , that Ioseph of ●rimathea preached in Bri●taine , and n n Britannoru loca Romanis i●accessa ( id est . Scotia ) Christo subdua sum advers. Judeos c. 6. 7. Tertullian in the second century which was his owne time saith the like . See the o o C●nt 1. l 2. Centuriasts , yea and p p Baron anna . An. 183. sect. 6. Barontus , and q q Origen hom . 4. in Ezech. Origen about an . 206. saith the same ; and Ierome r r Hierom. ad Euagrium . an . 407. Gattia , Britannia , Africa , Persis , oriens India , & omnes Barbarae nationes u●um Christum adorant , & unam observant regulam veritatis . What were all these but such as after were called Waldenses ? And in the first ages s s Pius 2 Ep. 228. l. 1. Pius 2. saith , ante concilium Nicenu●● parvus respectus babitus fuerat ad Romanam ecclesiars ; before the Nicen councill little respect was ●ad to th . Church of Rome . See this learnedly Demonstrated by the learned t t Voetius disp. caus . papatus l. 3 sect. 2. Voetius , and his reason is good . Ignatius , Ireneus , Iustin. Martyr , Cl●m . Alexandr . Tertullian , Cyprian speak not one syllable of popery or popish articles ; also Lucian , Porphyrius , Tryphe● , Cellus , Sosymus , Symmachus , Iulian , mockers of Reiligon would have spoken against transubstantiation , one body in many thousand places , worshipping of dead bones , the worshipping of a Tree , Crosse , and dumbe images , and bread , a Pope who could not erre , and they would have challenged and examined miracles , and I adde if they scoffed at the Doctrine of these called after Waldenses as the confession beareth , then were the Church of Waldenses ( though not under that name ) in their time . The Jewes objected against the Fathers Tatian , Theophilus , Athenages , Iustin , Tertullian , Alexand. Cy●rian , Chrysostome , Isiodorus , Hispalensis , Iulianus Po●nerius , They objected all they could devise against the Christian Faith , but not a word of poynts of popery now controversed ; Ergo , popery hath not beene in the World then , an . 188. In the Time of Victor many opposed victors Tyranny : and as Plessaeus w w Plessaeus in myster. iniquit . c. 2. and Doctor Molineus x x Molin . de novitate papismi . c. 3. l. 1. part . 1. saith , were called Schismaticks therefore , and excommunicated . Neither can Gretserus y y Gretser . exam. myster. pless . ● . 3. nor Bellarmine z z Bellarm de pontif . Ro. l. 2. c. 19. defend this , but by lies and raylings . Yea from the 4. to the 7. age ( saith a a Vo●t . disp caus p●pat . l. 3. sect. 2. Voetius ) produce one Martyr , professor , or Doctor . See Augustine de side ad Petrum , Ruffinus his exposition of the Creed , G●nnadius of the Articles of the Church , Theodoret his Epitome Divinorum decretorum , Cyrillus his tract de fide , and produce one holding the popish Faith . b b ●l●m . Roman. ●●nstit . l 6. c. 14. Clemens Romanus and Elutheri●s c c Eleuther . in the Epistle to the Bishops of France maketh all Bishops pastors of the Church universall . Any who readeth d d Gretser , exam. pless . myster. c. 21. 16. c. 24. Gre●serus against Pl●ssie may see in the 4. age that Baronius and Bellarmine cannot desend , that appeale was made to the Pope in the councell of Carthage , yea the Popes Legate brought Apiarius to the Councell , that his cause might be judged there , becaus● the Pope could not judge it , and that the Councell of Chalcedon was , per precepta Valentiniani , convened . and that Canstantinople was equall with Rome . That Simplicius , G●lasius and Symmachus were Judges in their owne cause , and that Hormisda an . 518. had no command over the O●ientall Churches , as may be seene in e e Baron . An. 118. p. 70. Baronius . So Pelagius the 1. Ioan. the 3. and Pelagius the 2. were refused the honour of universall Bishops , and could not helpe the matter ; See f f Gretser . exā . m●st . pless . c. 30. Gretser , and g g Honorius . Honorius must be defended as not denying two wills ; and two natures in Christ . See what saith B●ronius of this . The councell of h h Concl. Constant . An. 754. Constantinople would not receive the worshipping of Images . The best part of the Western Churches were against it . The Churches of France , Germany , Italy , Brittaine . The i i Concl. Francosurtens . councell of franckford , of k k Concil. parision . An. 1596. Paris , so did they all refuse the power of the Pope . So Occam , Gerson , Scotus , in most poynts were not papists . Nor Cajetan , Contaren , Alm●in , Ioa , Major , Caranza . Therefore said l l Thuanus histor. l. 5 p. 460. doctrinam ( Haldensiū ) per intervalia intermortuam renovavit . Thuanus the Doctrine of the Waldenses were now and then renewed by 〈◊〉 and Hus , and when Hildebrand came in , all know what wicked new poynts hee brought in , as in the Tomes m m Concl. ●om . 3 par. 2. p. 1196. of the councells may bee seene ; and n n Onuphrius in Gregor . 7. vita . Onuphrius sayth , quod major pars antea parum in usu fuerit ; The greatest part of his novelty not heard before , or little in use . His Tyranny upon the consciences of Church-men forbidding marriage : and over the Lords people may be seene in o o Sleidan hist. 1. 5 , period . c. 8. Sleidan p p Lampad . in Me●●isic . hist. p. 3. 204 , 205. In Lampadius , and his forme of excommunicating the Emperour as it is written by q q B●rur●edensses de vit. Greg. Beruriedenses and r r Sigon . de regno ●tal . l. 9. Sigonius , s s Avent. l. 5. p. 563 , 564. also Aventinus , t t Geroch . Reichers l. 2. de investig . Anti-Christ . Gerochus Reicher sperge●sis t t Orthuin . Grat. in fasciculo rerum expetendarum , & . An. 1595. Orthuinus ; Gratius and others can tell . But ere I speake of this monster head I should not have omitted humble Stephanus the 5. To whom Lodovick the Emperour , descending from his Horse , fell down upon the Earth thrice before his feete , and at the third time saluted him thus , blessed be the Lord God , who commeth in the Name of the Lord , and who hath shined upon us . As u u Thegan . de gest . Lod. Imp. c. 16. Theganus saith that Pashalis excuseth himselfe to the Emperour Lod. That hee had leapen to the Popedome without his authority , which saith , this headship is not supreame , as x x Aimoin . l. 4. c. 105. Aimoinus saith , who was a murderer of Theodorus , The Roman Churches Seale-keeper and of Le● . for having first put out their Eyes , hee then beheaded them , say the same Aimoinus , Gregory the 4. caused Lodovick the Emperours sons to conspire against the Father and was upon that plot himselfe . Sergius the 2. made an act that a Bishop should be convinced of no fault but under sevety and two witnesses . Siconulphus a Prince desiring to have this Popes blessing , came to Rome and kissed ( sayth y y Gretser . exam. pless . myster. c. 37. Gretserus after z z Anast. in ●ergio . Anastasius ) his precious feete . Anguilbert Archiepisc. Mediolanensis departed out of the Roman Church for the pride of Rome , and Simon of Sergius , sayth Sigonius , a a Sig. de reg●● Ital. l. 5. It was ordinary for all , sayth b b Anast. in Lev. 4. Anastasius , to kisse the seate of Leo the 4. Platina c c Platin. in vit. L●on . 1. saith , hee was guilty of a conspiracy against Gratianus a godly and worthy man , to expell the French-men out of the Kingdome and bring in the Greciane● . Gretser the Jesuite saith , their owne Platina is a Lyer in this .

Wee all know there was an English Woman-Pope called Ioanna , betwixt Leo the 4. and Benedictus the 3. Bellarmine , Baronius , Gretser , Lipsius will have it a fable . Platina a popish writter is more to be believed then they all , for hee affirmeth it as truth . A great schisme arose in the Church because Benedictus the 3. was chosen Pope without the Emperours consent . The Emperour did hold the bridle and lead the Horse of Nicolaus the 1. d d Grets . in exa . myst . pless . c. 39. Gretser cannot deny this ) hee defended and maintained Baldvinus , who was excommunicated by the Bishops of France , because he ravished Iuditha the daughter of C●rolus Calvus . Hee pleaded that there was no reason ; but the decretalls of the popes should be received as the Word of God , but because they were not written in the bookes of Church-Canons : for by that reason some bookes of the old and New Testament are not to be received as Gods Word ( e e Grets . Ibid. Grets . ) said , these Epistles were equall with Gods Word , and said , they had , neither these Epistles , nor the Scriptutes authority from the holy Spirit , but from the Church . That the church was foure hundred yeeres ignorant of the authority of the Scriptures : that hee himselfe was Jehova eternall , and that Gratianus had inserted it in his distinct . 96. That hee was God . Adrian the 2. approved of Basilius his killing of Michael the Emperour his Father .

f f Onuphr . l. de pontis . et cardin . in praefat. Onuphrius who observeth 26. Schisms of antipopes thinketh Schismatick Popes , no popes , as Benedict . 5. and 10 Honorius 2. Clement 3. Gregor. 8. Celestinus 2 : Victor 2. Some Popes have beene declared Hereticks by papists , as g g Concil. Pisanum , An. 1411. Gregorius 12. Benedictus 13. In the councell , of Pisa● ; and h h Concil. Constan . Genebraid , Chron. ad Anno. 901. per annos sere 150. a Ioanne scilice● 8. ad Leonem 9. Pontifices circiter q●●quaginta ● virtute majorii desecerunt , apostatiei verius qua Apostolici . The Monk Mantuanus l. de Calam , Romae , templa , sacerdotes , altaria , sacra , coronae , Ignis , thur● , preces , coelum est venale Deusq . Iohn 23. In the councell of Constance ; moreover Bonifacius 8. Sergius 3. Benedictus 7. Eugenius 4. Iohn 9. and Iohn 22. had no tolerable measure of learning to be priests , how then could they be universall prophets who could not erre ? Liberius was an Arrian ( as i i Athanasius Ep. ad Solitar . Alphonsus a Cast. adversus haereses l. 2. c. 4. Athanasius and Alphons . saith ) Zepherinus was a Montanist , as Tertullian k k Tertullian adversus praxean . c. 1. saith . Honorius was condemned , for saying Christ had but one will , in l l Tom. 2. Concil. Art . 13. generall councells at Constantinople , Marcellinus sacrificed to Idolls as m m Bell. de pon . Ro. l. 4. c. 8. Bellarmine confesseth ; faelix was an Arrian and consecrated by an Arrian Bishop , ( as n n Hyerom . in catalog . in Acac. Hieronim . saith ) Anastasius was a Nestorian ( as o o Alphonsus ● C●str . l. 1. c. 4. Alphonsus saith ) Iohn 22. said , soules did not see God untill the Resurrection , as p p Erasm. prae fat . ad Jrenae . l. 5. Erasmus saith ) Innocentius 1. ordained the Eucharist to be given to Infants , as a Jesuite saith q q Maldon . in Joan. 6. c. 14. to wit Maldonatus . All this is observed to prove the Church could not be in the Pope . 2. That the Waldenses were opposers of the pope , whose confession is set downe by r r Reginald in Calvino-Turk . l. 2. c. 5. Gulielmus Reginaldus Turco-papista : as s s Vsserus de Eccles. Christ . suc. c. 6. p. 158. Vsserus saith , and cast to by t t Gret . ad Petr. Pilichd . p. 309. the Jesuite Gretser to the end of Peter Pilichdorffius his Treaties contra Waldenses , and u u Reinerus . by Reinerus contra Waldenses , Their confession containing a condemning of the popes Supremacy , unwritten Traditions , worshipping of Images , Invocation of Saints , &c. and all the Articles of popery . We know how well x x Calvin Ep. 298. ad Waldenses . Ep. 244. ad Tolonos . Calvin thinketh of their confession y y Gret . in exam 〈◊〉 . c. 5. The slanderous Gr●tser saith , that Wicliffe renewed their errors and taught this Article . D●u● debet obedire diabolo . God should obey Satan . But that faithfull witnesse of Christ , hath no such thing in his writtings . Many other poynts are objected to the Waldenses , but z z Thuanus H●jlor . l. 5. Thuanus saith , Reliqua quae à Waldensi●us affing untur , per invidiam assinguntur . Other lies and false Doctrines are laide upon them , but the a a Magdeburgenses ●ent . 12. c. 8. p. 1206 , 1207. Magdeburgenses set downe faithfully the Articles that they held , which wee owne as the Truth of God .

What b b Sanderus de visibil Monarch . l. 7. An. 1198. Sanderus c c Coccius Thesau tom . 1. l. 8. Art. 3. Coccius d d Parsonius de tribu● Anglie conversionib . p : 2. c. 10. and Parsonius objected to them that they Taught that carnall co●cupiscence was no sin . 2. That all oathes in any case are unlawfull . 3. That the Magistrate may not use the sword . 4. That the Apostles Creed is to be contemned these and other calumnies are well refused by Usser e e Usser de c●r . eccles. suc. c. 6. p. 158. 160 , 161 , 162 , & 〈◊〉 . and proved by the Testimony , that Papists gave of the Holy life of the Waldenses , to bee but Lies and meere cal●mnies .

These who of old ( saith Serarius ) f f Serarius 〈…〉 5 were called Berengariani from Berengarius , are this day called Calvinists , and these who are this day ( sayth g g Ioan Wendelstonus p 〈…〉 & dec●et . pe●t . Ioan , Wendelstonus ) called Protestants , are novi , s●n G●rmanici Waldenses . The new Waldenses of Germany . Nec vero ( saith h h Usser . de Eccles. Christ . S●c . & stabil . c. 7 p. 195. Usser , citing the foresaid Authors ) justam a●l●●c causam videre p●ssimus , quam●brem horum majnum pudere nos debcat ; we neede not thinke shame of our forbearers the Waldenses . Whether did Berengarius feare Leo the 9. his unjust sentence of excommunication : but contrary to Victor the 3. he did stoutly plead that the E●ements were a figure or signe of the body and blood of Christ , Ar. 1056. And before Nicol●us the 2. in a Synod at Rome before 113. Bishops , for the space of seven dayes hee pleaded the same cause . So saith Albericus i i Albericus cass●● in Chrom . l. 3. c. 33. Diacon . Cassinens . and k k Sig●nius de regm Italic . l. 9. Au. 1059. Carolus Sig●nius . Yea , and hee lest behind him in his age multitudes of his followers , so as Rome was not able to suppresse the visible Church ever since her Cedar branches did spring up to the Cloudes .

And we know that the Faith of the Councell of Trent , as pressed by Oath prescribed by Pius 4. and by the command of Gregorius 13. was not in the World the 10. age , Ambrosius , Catharinus , Martinus , Isengrenius , Contarenus , the Sorbonists of Paris , and the Doctors of Venice , in many substantiall poynts contradicted the Church of Rome : yea l l Thuand . 3. p. 214. Thuanus m m Aut●n . de dom. Archi Spalatens . l. 2. sect. 2. c. 2. and the Bishop of Spalato teach that after the councell of Trent the Reformation spread through the Christian World . In the 12. and 13. ages , the Doctrine of the Waldenses , of Wicliffe and Berengarius did grow , but few did write , ( saith n n Voetius disp. ca● . papat . l. 3. sect. 2. p. 634. Voetius , ) in these times because of heavy persecution , multitudes in Germany Austria , Moravia , Silesia Leiden , Collen , Osenbruge , and many other parts opposed popery .

Now we say there were multitudes professing the Truth , both of Doctors , Fathers , and witnesses opposing the Roman Church ! and what calling the Church of Rome gave to our reformers must be measured by the best of the Church consenting to their c●l●i●g : for wee are not to thinke that all professed popery , but many of the guides opposed , many were burdened in 〈◊〉 and yet out of weakenesse durst not professe , because of the 〈◊〉 ●●ea●nesse . 3. They durst not write and preach ag 〈…〉 n of the time . 4. Many were simple , many 〈◊〉 .

3. 〈…〉 Luther and Zuinolius had their whole calling from the 〈…〉 ye● think we not that calling no calling , but that it hath that which ●ssentially constituteth a Ministe . 1. C●j phas entered most c●r●n●●ly to the Priesthood , by the favour of men , and to bee High-Priest for one yeare contrary to the Law , which ordained the high-priest to remaine for his lifetime . But as o o Josephus Antiq l. 15. c. 3. Iosephus said p p Tolet. com . in Ioan. 11. Toletus q q Cajetan 16. Cajetan r r Maldonat . Maldonat s s Ianson . can . Iansonius : yea and our owne writers t t Calvin . Calvin u u Marlorat . Marlorat x x Muscul. com . in Ioan. Musculus y y Rollocus . Rollock z z Bullinger . Bullinger observe , all was done by the will and lust of men ; yet Cajaphas was the high-priest and prophecied , which is a specifick act of a called Prophet . John , Ex. 51. 52. It is said , he prophecied as high-priest . 2. The Scribes and T●aisees set in Moses chaire , and are to be heard , Mat. 23 1. In so far as they teach Gods Truth , and yet their entry to their calling was corrupt , if it be true that diverse say , that Christ , John 10 ▪ calleth the Scribes and Pharises . Theeves and Robbers , because they came not in by the doore , but climbed up another way , but however there was corruption in the way of their comming to the chaire , for they leavened all other the Ordinances of God , and the high priest was entered a false way , the rest of the Rulers could not come , but in a corrupt way . But though Augustine a a Augustinus contra . advers. leg . & pro. l. 3. c. 4. vencrunt a seipsis , non missi . and b b Clem. Alex. Strom. 1. Non missi a Deo . Clemens Alexa● . expound the place , John 20. of such as want a lawfull calling ; but then the place cannot agree with Scribes and Pharisees , which seemeth to fight with the course of the Text. But our Interpeters c c Brentius , bumanarum traditionum doctores . Brentius d d Beza in loc. B●z● e e Rolloc . com . ib. Rollocus , expound the place of these who preach not Christ soundly , and to be the doore and the foundation , but humane Traditions , and yet had a calling ; and the Text saith so much , where v. 9. Salvation is promised to every one who entereth in by Christ the doore , now salvation is not promised to a man , because hee hath a lawfull calling to the Ministery ; hee may have that and yet b●e a Child of perdition .

3. Wee are no where forbidden in Gods Word to heare Teachers sent and called , but onely Wolves in sheepe skinnes , voyd of all calling , and intruders : for pastors may be antichristian in the manner of the entry , as Cajaphas . 2. In the matter of their Doctrine Teaching some of mens Traditions , in place of Gods Word as Scribes and Pharisees . 3. Yea , and brooke an antichristian calling , as prelates doe and have done in Brittain● , and yet their Ministery be valid . For that the calling of a Minister be valid , and his Ministeriall acts not null , it is sufficient that the governing Church give him a calling , either by themselves , their expresse call , their silence , or tacite consen● , or their approbation communicating with him in his Ministery , or by these to whom the Church resigned her power , or by these who stand in place of the Church ; though prelates invade the place of the Church : yet because first they themselves be pastors and have power to teach and Baptize as pastors called of Christ . Mat. 18. 19. 2. Because they stand for the Church the Church approving , or some way by silence consenting ( as in the case of Cajaphas entry to the priest-hood ) thereunto . these who are baptized of them , are not rebaptized , and these who are ordained pastors by them are not reordained , but have a calling to the Ministery and doe validly confer a calling upon others . Yea , many of great learning thinke that at the beginning of Reformation thousands being under popery baptized by Midwives and private persons , were never rebaptized , not that they thinke such Baptisme valid , but where the Sacrament is wanting , ex invincibili ignorantia facti , out of an invincible ignorance of a fact , such that way baptized doe indeed want the Lords Seale ; but wee cannot for that say that they are no better then Infidells and unbaptized Turkes and Iewes , because . 1. Their being borne in the visible Church giveth a federall holinesse , as all of Jewish parents had a federall right to circumcision , and were , eatenus , in so far , separated from the wombe . 2. Because their profession of that Covenant whereof Baptisme is a seale , separateth them sufficiently from Infidells , though they want the seale externall . But our Divines esteeme , and that justly , baptisme administrated by Women , or such as have no calling , to be no baptisme at all ; for which let the Reader see a a Calvin Inst. l. 4. c. 15. Sect. 20. Epst. 326. Calvin b b Beza libel . quest. de baptism . Beza c c Rive●●s in Cathol. Orthod. ●om . 2. tract . 2. q. 7. the learned Rivetus . We stand not for what d d Bellarm. de baptism . c 7. Bellarmine e e Maldonat . com . in Ioann . c. 6. v. 33. Maldonatus f f Gretser . in cas. conscien . q. 4. de baptism . p. 17. 18. & seq . Gretserus and other papists say on the contrary : and also g g Cajetan . com . in loan . 3. Cajetan and h h Toletus in 3. An. 3. Toletus .

4. Robinson i i Robins . Iustific . p. 276 , 277. and our Brethren acknowledge that the Church of Rome hath true baptisme , for they retaine the essentiall causes of Baptisme , even as the vessells of the Lords house profaned in Babylon may be carried back to the Temple , but if these vessells were broken and mingled with brasse and iron , and cast in another mould they could not obtaine their former place in the Temple . Baptisme is a vessell profaned in Babell , but not broken ; but the ministry and priest hood of Rome is like the new melted and mingled vessell , and essentially degenerated from the office of pastorship . But I answer , if baptisme be valid in Rome so are the Ministers baptizers , for if the Ministers and priests be essentially no Ministers , the baptisme administrated by the Romish priests is no Ministery , and all one as administrated by Midwives and private persons , who therefore cannot administrate the Sacraments validly in the essentiall causes , because they are essentially no Ministers . If therefore Robinson will have the Romish priest-hood essentially no ministery , by that same reason he must say , baptisme administrated by Romish priests i● no baptisme , the contrary whereof he confesseth : otherwise hee must say baptisme administrated , à non habente potestatem , even by Women and private Men , is valid , and cannot be but esteemed lawfull in the substance of the act. 2. These have a ministery essentially entyre who have power under Christ to preach the Gospell and administrate the Sacraments , Matthew 28. 19. The Romish priests have this , and are called to this by the Church .

But saith Robinson . How can England forsake the Church of Rome , and forsake the ministery , which is in the Church , as in the subject , especially , seeing you teach that a true ministery maketh essentially a true Church ?

I answer , England may well separate from Rome everting the fundamentall parts of Faith , and not separate from Romes baptisme , or ministery , in so farre , as they be essentially the ordinances of Christ : and I retort this argument ; How can Separatists separate from both us and Rome , and yet retaine the baptisme in both our Church and Rome . 2. A ministery true in the essence may make a Church true 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in so far ; but because of many other substantiall corruptions in Rome , it is a Church which we ought to forsake .

But sayth Robinson , a a Robinson Iustif. p. 316. Apostates in the 10. Tribes leaving the Church which was radically at Jerusalem , upon their repentance were readmitted to enter into the Temple , into which no uncircumcised person might enter , but any of the priests following Idolls , were never readmitted to be priests , though they should repent ; Therefore the ministery and baptisme are not alike .

I answer , that the true Church was onely at Jerusalem radically , as , you say , would import that the 10. Tribes revolting from Davids house ceased to be a Church , which is false : Israel though all the Land were in Covenant with God , had circumcision and the Passover , and so were a true visible Church , even when they did meete in their Synagogues . The Altar , sacrifices , Temple , are not the essentialls of a visible Church , they were a Church , and did pray toward the Temple even in Babylon , and were to professe the True God before the heathen , Ierem. 10. 11. 2. There be typicall reasons to hinder men why they cannot be capable of the priest-hood , that did not exclude them from Church state ; but this hindereth not but if the seales administated by a Minister be true seales , then is the Minister thereof catenus , in so far , a true Minister .

He addeth b b Page 317. a Minister may leave off to be a Minister , and be justly degraded and excommunicated , but none ever attempted to unbaptize one who was baptized , nor can he be unbaptized who is baptized .

Answ. That proveth a difference betwixt the ministery and Baptisme , which is not the question ; but it proveth not this to be false , if Romes baptisme be lawfull in its essence , so is Romes ministery .

CHAP. 9. SECT. 9.

Of the addition of Members to the Church .

THE Author sayth , a Church cannot consist of a fewer number Way of the Church of Christ in , N. E. Cap. 9. Sect. 9. then seven , since there must be foure of them , a Pastor , Doctor , Elder , and a Deacon .

Ans. And wee contend not for number , but foure may be a Church of your making , and in Church-covenant : for it is a wonder , that you require officers who by your Doctrine , cannot be parts of the Church , seeing you make them accidents of the Church , and teach that the Church , in its being and operation , is before any officers be ordained in it : the accidents of a subject , and a subject make not multiplication , Peter & his learning and whitenesse make not two Peters . And therefore seeing three believers may be united in your Church-covenant , they must be a Church : and seeing these foure officers , a Pastor , an Elder , a Doctor , and a Deacon must be chosen by the Church , yea and ordained also ( by your Doctrine ) neede they must have their ordination and lawfull calling from three , and so these three must be their Church electing them ; and a numerous congregation , we dislike with you .

Author , These who are to be added , are to make knowen to the Elders their desire to be added , that they may be tryed , if he be found graceles or scand●lous , he is not to be presented to the Church ; if no exception be against him , he confesseth his Faith publickly , and sheweth the grace of God to his soule in drawing him out of the State of sin .

Answ. 1. Wee reade not that three thousand added to the Church at one Sermon , Acts 2. Nor any other that we reade of , were in this manner and order added , and therefore this way we suspect . 2. You require in one to be added that he be not graceles and scandalous , to be free from scandals is visible and is required in a visible Church member , but grace is invisible and can be a note of a member of the invisible Church , but no wayes a note of a member of the visible Church . The Apostles required it not in Simon Magus .

The Author in the same place proceedeth to prove that none can be members of the visible Church , but such as be regenerated so far as the Church can discerne . Hence our ,

1. Quest. Whether the members of the visible Church be only visible saints , sons and daughters of the Lord God Almighty , temples of the holy spirit , &c.

1. Distinct. Any who blamelesly professeth Christ is Ecclesiastically , in foro Ecclesiae , a true and valid member of the Church visible , having Ecclesiasticall power valid for that effect : but , except he be a sincere Believer , he is not morally and in fo●o Dei , a living member of the invisible Church .

2. Dist. That which is unseene is the forme and essence of an invisible Church , and that which is visible must be the essentiall forme of a visible Church .

3. Dist. The invisible Church Catholick is the principall , prime and native subject of all the priviledges of Christians , the covenan● premises , titles of Spouse , bride , redeemed Temple of the holy spirit , &c. And the Church visible as she is such , is no wayes such a subject , the non-consideration whereof we take to be the ground of many errors , in our reverend brethren in this matter , which also deceived Papists , as our Divines demonstrate .

4. Dist. A seene profession is the ground of members admission to the visible Church . Hence there is a satisfaction of the conscience of the Church in admitting of members , either in the judgement of charity , or in the judgement of verity .

5. Dist. There is a satisfaction in the judgement of charity positive , when we see signes which positively assure us that such an one is regenerate : and there is a satisfaction negative when we know nothing on the contrary which hath a latitude : for I have a negative satisfaction of the regeneration of some , whose persons or behaviour I know neither by sight nor report . This is not sufficient for the accepting of a Church-Membership , therefore somewhat more is required .

6. Dist. There be three rankes of men here considerable . 1. Some professedly and notoriously flagitious and wicked ; little charity may exclude these . 2. Some professedly sanctifyed and holy , little charity may accept and welcome such to the visible Church . 3. Some betwixt these two , of whom we have neither a certainty full and satisfactory to the conscience , that they are regenerate ; nor have we any plerophory or persuasion , that they are in the State of nature .

7. It is no lesse sin to sadden the heart of a weake one , and to break the bruised reed , then out of overplus of strong charity , to give the hand to an Hypocrite , as a true Church-member .

8. Materially it is all one not to admit members of such a Church to your Church , as to separate from such a Church , and to Excommunicate such members : for it is a negative and authoritative leaving of such to Satan , if it be not a positive Excommunication .

9. There is a visibility of the Church by writing . 2. By Synods which meete for consultation , as our Brethren teach . 3. By Martyrdome . 4. The seene profession of many Churches , and these being without the bounds of a Congregation , it is not Iustice to restrict all visibility to one single Congregation . 10. Visible security , backslyding , over swaying predominants tolerated may consist with the Church , membership of a visible Church :

1. Conclus . These two be farre different , ( Hic vel in hoc satu est Ecclesia vera ) there or in this company there is a true Church . And this ( Haec est Ecclesia vera ) this determinat company of such persons by name is a true Church ) the former is true , where ever God setteth up his Candle , there be their Church-members of Christs Body either actually or potentially ; for asmuch as if their be no converts there at all , yet in respect of Gods Decree which Hee beginneth to execute while as Hee erecteth a Ministery , certainly there must be some converted there at last . But as concerning the latter proposition , none can say certainly , such visible persons by name , Iohn , Paul , Anna , Mary , &c. Are the true Spouse and redeemed of Christ , because , as Divines answer to Papists , we believe the Church of Christ rather then see it . Yea , the Spouse of Christ , as the true Spouse , is all glorious within , Psal. 45. 13. and that which essentially constituteth a Spouse of Christ , is not visible , but the hidden man in the heart , 2 Pet. 3. 4. Neither is there any Union of believers as believers visible . 2. Faith and true grace are not the essence of a visible Church , as it is visible , because nothing simply invisible can essentially constitute that which is visible .

2. Con. The invisible and not the visible Church is the principall , prime , and onely proper subject , with whom the covenant of grace is made , to whom all the promises doe belong , and to whom all Titles , Stiles , Properties and priviledges of speciall note , in the Mediator doe belong . If our reverend Brethren would be pleased to see this , they should forsake their Doctrine of a visible constituted Church , of separation , of popular government , of independency , of parochi●ll Churches , which they conceive to be the only visible Churches under the New Testament . 1. The Church , to whom the covenant , and the promises of the covenant are made , is an Church , and a seed which shall endure as the dayes of Heaven . Psal. 89. 35 36. and such as can no more fall away from being Gods people in an eternall covenant with him , then their God can alter what he has spoken , or lic , Psal. 89 33 , 34 , 35. They can no more cease from being in Gods Favour , or be cast off of God , then the ordinances of Heaven can depart from before God , then Heaven can be measured above , or the foundations of the Earth searched out beneath . Jerem. 31. 35. 36 , 37. Nor the Mountaines and Hills can be removed out of their places . Esa. 54. 10. Or the World can be destroyed , with the waters of Noah againe : Or then God can retract his O●th and promise . Heb. 6. 18 , 19 , 20. But the visible Church of 〈◊〉 or that congregation or parish ( as our Brethren say ) of Rome , Corinth , Colosse , Thessalonica , Philippi , and the seven Churches of Asia , shall not endure as the dayes of Heaven , yea they are all this day under horrible defection of Antichistian Idolatry and Turcisme and Judaisme : if it be said , the faithfull and believing of the visible Churches at Rome , Corinth , Colosse , &c. could no more fall away , then the house of Israel and seed of David could cease to be Gods people . I answer , this is to flee to the invisible Church ; but the Professors of these visible Churches as Professors and in Church-state might fall away from the Church profession . If they say , they cannot fall from the sincerity of a true profession ; now yet they are aside , and flee from the visible Professors , and Churches visibility agreeing to the Church as visible ; to the Churches sincerity and invisible grace of constancy proper to the invisible Church , and by this meaning , none are the true visible Church , nor members thereof , but only such as have profession , and withall sincerity of profession ; so Hypocrites , though never so fairely inchurched , have no power of the Keyes , of censures of excommunication , of admitting of Church members , of Baptizing , &c. All which is very Anabaptisme , that there is no visible Church on Earth , but a company of truely , and ( in foro Dei ) regenerated and converted persons and the onely redeemed of God ; and. 2. Our Divines in vaine contend with papists anent the visible Churches failing on Earth , for most certaine it is ( except we hold with Arminians , Socinians and Papists the apostacy of Believers ) neither the catholick Church , nor a particular congregation of sincere Believers can fall into heresies and lose true and saving Faith . But we hold that there is not a visible Church consisting of only visible professors never so orthodox , but it may fall into fundamentall heresies , and we give instance , in the sometime orthodox and visible Church of Rome which hath fallen from the sound Faith , and is become B●bel and a whore and mother of fornications . 3. A Church consisting of seven professors ( which our Brethren in this place say , is a visible Church ) may have foure or five , yea six hypocrites in it , and yet the essence of a visible Church , the nature of a Church-state , Church-covenant , the power and use of the keyes is 〈◊〉 in such a Church of seven : for it is certaine , Professon , 〈◊〉 uniting themselves together in one Church-state , are not led by an infallible and apostolick Spirit , that they cannot erre inconstituting a visible Church : but if they be fallible and obnoxious to error , then in erecting a Church of seven , five , six , and by the same reason all the seven may be ( in foro Dei ) in Gods Court , yea and ( in an ordinary providence now with relation to the state of man fallen into sin ) often are unbelievers and unconverted persons , and yet a visible Church performing all Church-acts of a visible profession . Now if our Brethrens grounds hold good , seven unbelievers are a company in covenant with God , and can no more fall from the covenant and grace thereof , then God can lie or alter that which is gone out of his mouth .

2. The Church with whom the covenant is made , and to whom the promises of the covenant are made , is the Spouse of Christ , his mysticall body , the Sons and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty , a royall priest-hood , a chosen generation , Kings and Priests to God : but this is the invisible Church of elect believers , not the visible Church of visible professors . Therefore the invisible , and not the visible Church , is the first subject of all the priviledges of Christians , and all the promises of the covenant . The proposition is not doubted . I prove the assumption ; The visible Church as it is such , is a company of professors of the truth , and connot be , as it is such , the Spouse of Christ and his Body . 1. Because then Professors , as Professors , should be Christs redeemed Body , which is openly false and against the Word of God : for Rom. 9. 6. for they are not all Israel , which are of Israel . 2. Our Brethrens argument is strong to prove , that the Church of Elders are not the true Church spoken of in the Word ; For , say they , the true Church is a flock that Christ hath Redeemed with his Blood , Acts 20. 28. The Temple of the living God , 1 Cor. 3. But the Church of Elders is not a flock of redeemed ones , and Temples of the holy Spirit , but in so far as they believe , and are elected to glory , and not as a flock of Elders , are they redeemed : so they say , true Elders , as Elders , are not a part of the true Church , nor the Church to whom Christ gave the keyes , Mat. 16. But the Church making Peters confession . So say wee , the Church of visible professors , as they are such , are not the redeemed of Christ , and Temples of the holy Spirit , but in so far as they are Believers and the elect of God . For if our Brethren say , the Church , as it is a company of visible Professors , is also essentially the Church of Redeemed ones , then only the Church of visible Professors , and all the Church of visible Professors are redeemed of God , but this is absurd and false . Quod convenit 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 convenit 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Our Brethren acknowledge there may be an hundred Believers and Temples of the holy Spirit , who are a flock of redeemed ones , and yet not be a company of visible Professors . 1. Because they are not united ( say they ) covenant-wayes into a Church-body . 2. ( Say they ) because of weakenesse and for feare of persecution , men may hide their profession as many doe in the Church of Rome , and yet be the redeemed of God , and be the seven thousand who have not bowed their knees to Baal ; and our Brethren cannot say , that all the visible Church are the flock redeemed of God , for then should there be no hypocrites in the visible Church . 3. In this our Brethren maintaine one of the ●●ossest poynts of the Arminian , Popish and Socinian Doctrine , even that all visible Professors are chosen to glory , redeemed of God , and the children of the promise , and that in Gods purpose , the cove●ant of grace and the promises of the covenant are made to all and every one in the visible Church , and that God hath an intention that Christ shall die for all and every one of the visible Church , and that he inteneth to save all and every one of the visible Church . This I prove , for if th● covenant and promises of the covenant , if the stiles of Christs Body , his Love , his Spouse , his Sister and D●ve , if the revelation of Christ made not by flesh and blood , but by Christs Father the ground of that blessed confession of Peter Mat. 16. 17. For which the keys were given to the visible Church , if I say all these be proper to the visible Church as visible , and due to her as to the first principall and prime subject , and not to the chosen redeemed and invisible Church as such , then the promises of the covenant , and all these styles belong to the visible Church , and God promiseth and intendeth a new heart and a new spirit to all visible Professors as such , and so he intendeth redemption in Christ and salvation , and Christs Righteousnesse and Forgivenesse of sins to all the visible Church . But our Brethren do not ( I hope ) thinke that Gods intentions , are castles in the Aire , and new Ilands beyond the Moone , as if his intentions could be frustrated , and he could misse the white of the scope he shooteth at ; for certainly these to whom the covenant , and promises thereof belong as to the prime and first subject , these are his covenanted people ; now the orthodox and reformed Church holdeth , that the covenant and promises are preached to the whole visible Church , but for the elects sake , and that howsoever externally , the covenant of grace and promises be promulgated to every one , and all within the lists of the visible Church ; yet they belong in Gods Intention and gratious purpose only to the Elect of God , and his reseemed ones , to that invisible Body , Spouse , Sister , whereof Christ alone is Lord , Head , Husband , and Brother , and the first begotten amongst many Brethren . Hence let me reason thus . The Church whose gathering together , and whose unity of Faith , knowledge of the Son of God , and growth of the measure of the stature of the fulnes of Christ , the Lord intendeth by giving to them for that end , some to be Apostles , some Prophets , some Pastors and Teachers , Eph. 4. 11 , 12 , 13. must be the Church to which all the promises of the covenant and priviledges do belong . But the Lord intendeth the gathering together , the unity of Faith , the knowledge of the Son of God and growth of the measure of the stature of Christ only of the invisible Elected and Redeemed Church , not of the visible professing or consesing Church , nor doth the Lord send Pastors and Teachers up-on a purpose and intention of gathering the visible Church , and visible Israel , except you flie to the Tents of Arminians . I conceive these arguments cannot be answered . If any say , that Christ in giving Prophets , Pastors and Teachers to his Church intendeth to save the true visible Church of the chosen and redeemed , in so far as they are chosen and redeemed , now they who answer thus , come to our hand and forsake the Doctrine of their visible Church , and say with us , that the Ministery and the keys are given only upon a purpose on Gods part to save the invisible Church , and that all these promises of the covenant , the styles of Christs Spouse , Sister , Faire one , are not proper to the visible Church , nor any ground or argument to prove that the keys , the power of excommunication , ordaining of officers are given to the visible Church , as to the prime and principall subject .

4. The invisible Church ; and not the visible Church as it is such , hath right to the Sacraments , because these who have right to the covenant , have right to the seales of the covenant ; and this is Peters argument to prove the baptizing of Infants to be lawfull , Acts 2. 38 , 39. But only the invisible Church hath right to the covenant . For God saith only of , and to the invisible Church . and not of the visible Church in his gratious purpose , Jerem. 32. 38. And I will be their God , and they shall be my people , Jer. 31. 33. I will put my Law in their inward parts , 34. They shall all know me ( all within the covenant ) I will forgive th●ir iniquity . Now the visible Church as the visible Church is not within the covenant , therefore the visible Church as the visible Church , and being no more but the visible Church , hath not right to the Seales of the covenant , but in so far as they are within the covenant , and in so far as God is their God , and they his pardoned and sanctified people , as it is , Ierem. 31. 33 34.

5. It is knowen that our Brethren here joyne with Papists , for Papists ignorant of the Doctrine of the visible Church , labour to prove that the visible Church on Earth , the Ministeriall , Teaching and Governing Church , cannot erre , but that she conver●ed in a visible Synod , and met in Christs Name , hath a promise of an infallible assistance . And by what argumunts do they prove it ? You know here Bellarmine , Pererius , Tolet , Stapleton , Bail●●s , Suarez . Vasquez , Harding , Gretsirus , Costerus , Turrecremata , Salmoron , Locinus , Cajetan , and an host of them say , because the Church is builded on a Rock , and against it the Gates of Hell shall not prevaile : because Christ saith , I have prayd to the Father that thy Faith faile thee not : because Christ saith , I will send you the holy Spirit , and he shall leade you into all truth . Now our Divines say , that the invisible Church of Elect believers cannot fall off the Rock , and cannot fall from saving Faith , and cannot erre by falling into fundamentall heresies , but it followeth not ; Ergo , the visible ministeriall and Teaching Church , either out of a Synod , or convened in a Synod , have an infallible and Apostolick Spirit to lead them so , as in their determinations they cannot erre . Just so our brethren take all the places for the priviledges , covenant , promises , stiles of Sister , Love , Dove , Spouse , mysticall Body of Christ , &c. Which are proper only to the invisible , redeemed , chosen , sanctified Church of God : and they give all these to their only visible ministeriall and right constituted Church in the New Testament ; and say that this visible church gathered in a church-state , because of the foresaid priviledges and stiles , hath the supreame and independent power and authority of the keys , above all Teachers and Pastors whatsoever , and that the right visible church consisteth only of a Royall generation , Temples of the Holy Ghost , a people in covenant with God , taught of God , partakers of the Divine nature , &c. And that all visible churches that meet not in a materiall House , in a visible and conspicious Society , as on visible Mount Zion , and not consisting of such a covenanted , sanctified , and separated people , are a false church , false in matter , not an ordinance of Christ , but an Idoll , an antichristian device , a Synagogue of Satan voyd of the power of the Keys .

6. A church in covenant with God , and the Spouse of Christ , and his mysticall Body , and a church which he redeemed with the Blood of God , Acts 20. 28. Eph. 5. 25. 26. Col. 1. 18. 1 Cor. 12. 12. Is a church whereof all the members without exception are taught of God . Jerem. 31. 34. They shall all know me ( saith the Lord ) from the least , unto the greatest . Esa. 54. 13. All thy children shall be taught of the Lord . And therefore they all haveing heard and learned of the Father , come to Christ , Iohn 6. 45. and therefore have all the anointing within them which teacheth them all things , 1 Iohn 1. 27. And so they have all Eares to heare . Yea among such a company , Esai . 35. 9. 10. there is no Lyon , no ravenous beast , but the Redeemed and Ransomed of the Lord . But so it is that no visible congregation on Earth , that are visible Professors of any competent number , is such a Church whereof all the members are taught of God , all ransomed and redeemed , and therefore no visible church , as such is a people or Church in covenant with God . See a a Rodger . Catechism part . 2. art. 6. p. 176 , 177. Rodgers Catechisme .

3. Conclus . A visible profession of the Truth and Doctrine of godlinesse , is that which essentially constituteth a visible church , and every member of the visible church ; onely our Brethren and we differ much about the nature of this profession which is required in members added to the Church . Our Brethren will have none members of the visible Church , but such as are satisfactory to the consciences of all the visible church , and give evidences so cleare , as the judgement of discerning men can atraine unto , that they are truly regenerated . We againe do teach , that the scandalously wicked are to be cast out of the Church by excommunication , and these of approved piety are undoubtedly members of the visible Church , so these of the middle sort are to be acknowledged members of the Church , though the Church have not a positive certainty of the judgement of charity , that they are regenerated , so they be knowen . 1 To be Baptized . 2. That they be free of grosse scandals . 3. And professe that they be willing hearers of the Doctrine of the Gospell . Such a profession , as giveth evidences to the positive certainty of the judgement of charity , of sound conversion , is not required to make and constitute a true visible Church .

1. Argu. Israel entered in covenant with God , Deut. 29. was a true visible Church , as our Brethren Teach , because that they conceive to be a Church-covenant , Deut. 29 , but Churches by that Oath were not such , as to the satisfaction of Moses , and the whole people their consciences gave positive certainty of sound conversion . Because v. 4. The Lord ( saith the Text ) hath not given you an heart to perceive , nor eyes to see , nor Eares to heare to this day , Deut. 31. 27. for I know thy Rebellion and thy stifneck , behell , while I am yet alive with you this day , yee have been rebellions against the Lord . ver. 21. Deut. 32. v. 5. v. 15 , 16 , 17. Josh. 24. 23.

2. Argu. Christ would not seven times have said . He that hath Eares to heare , let him heare what the Spirit saith to the Churches , if he had not supposed that in these seven Churches , there were blind , obdurate , and carnall hearers , as there were when , Mat. 13. upon occasion of the like hearers , he uttereth these same words in substance . Now Christ would have blamed their ill discerning in admitting such to be the materialls of a visible Church , as hee reproveth their other faults in government . Neither could Christ reprove these Churches , for not exercising the Church-censures against liers , false Apostles , fleshly Nicolaitans , followers of Balaams wicked Doctrine , Jezebed and other ill doers and seducers , if these had not been Church-members , as our Brethren teach , how can we conceive , that Christ would call these Churches , who were false in the matter , or give his presence and communion by walking among the golden candlestickes , and holding the starres , the Ministery , in his right hand ? And if every one of these Churches were approved to the consciences one of another , that they positively knew they were all of them , a royall Priest-Hood , an holy Generation , all taught of God , all sonnes and daughters of the Lord God Almighty , how are there such grosse scandals put upon them by Jesus Christ ?

3. Argu. Paul clearely teacheth , 1 Cor. 5. That the Church of Corinth convened had the power of the Lord Iesus amongst them , and was a betrothed Bryde espoused in a Church covenant , even all of the visible Church as one chaste Virgin to God , as our Brethren prove from the , 1 Cor. 11. 1 , 2 , 3. Who had received the Spirit and the Gospell , their minds being knit thereunto , in the simplicity of Iesus Christ ; now if the matter of this betrothed Church was such , as our Brethren say , then Christs Power , and Presence and Spirit , were in these as the Temples of the Holy Ghost , and these were betrothed to Christ Iesus , and had received the Spirit and were Saints by calling , were justified , washen , sanctified , who were incestuous , Fornicators , Drunkards , Railers , carnall , Schismaticks , going to the Law one with another before Infidells , partakers of the Table of Christ and of divells , deniers of the Resurrection , to whom the Word was the savour of Death , and the Gospell as it is to these , whom the God of this world , Satan , hath blinded . What can be more repugnant to the truth and to the Gospell of Christ ? It cannot be answered , that these in Corinth who were hypocrites and walked so contrary to the Gospell were not members of the Church of Corinth . For only the truly converted were such . I answer . 1. Then Paul writeth not to the visible Church and to all whom he doth rebuke , the contrary whereof is cleare . 1 Cor. 2. 11. 2 Cor. 3. 22. 1 Cor. 5. 1. 2. 1 Cor. 6. 1. 2. 3. 1 Cor. 11. 17 18 19 , 30. 1 Cor. 15. 12. 1 Cor. 10. 21. 1 Cor. 8. and in many other places .

2. Then the visible church was not betrothed to Christ as a chaste Virgin : contrary to this our Brethren alleadged , 1 Cor. 11. 1 2 , 3. 3. Not only is conversion professedly true in the judgment of charity , but also in the judgement of verity , essentiall to a visible church as you teach ; and so none can be a member of the visible church , but he who is a member of the invisible Church , which is Anabaptisme . 4. Three thousand in one day were added to the visible church , who could not ( as I have proved ) all be approved to the conscience one of another , as true converts , Acts 2. Since amongst them were Ananias and Saphira , and the time was short . 5. If we are to beare one anothers burdens , and so fulfill the Law of Christ , and if grace may be beside many and great sinnes , as we see in Asa , in Salomon who remained the children of God , under many out breakings , if the children of God may be the children of God , and yet some of them habitually proud , passionate , some of them worldly minded , some talkative and imprudently rash in zeale , some lustfull , some slothfull , some ambiticus , yea and if Simon Magus his profession , though false , was esteemed sufficient , for to give him baptisme , the Seale of the covenant , Acts 8. 9. Then it is not required that all the members of the visible church be such as positively wee know ( so farre as humane knowledge can reach ) that they are converted , yea if this were true , then speciall commandements would be given , that as we are to examine and try our selves , 1 Cor. 11. 28. 2 Cor. 13. 5. And to try officers before they be admitted , 1 Tim. 3. 10. 1 Tim. 5 22. and to try the spirits of Prophets and their Doctrine , 1 Iohn 4. 1. and , 1 Thess. 5. 21. Acts 17. 13. So would God in his Word give a charge , that we try , examine and judge carefully one another , and that every man labour to be satisfied in conscience anent the regeneration one of another . But such commandements we reade not of . 6. If many be brought and called into the visible church , of purpose both on Gods revealed intention in his Word to convert them , and on the churches part that they may be converted ; Then doth not the church confist of these who are professedly converted , but the former ●● true ; Ergo , so is the latter . The proposition is sure , these whom God purposeth to convert by making them Church-members , they are not Church-members because they are already converted . I prove the assumption , because . 1. The contrary doctrine , to wit , that none are under a pastors care till they be first converted , maketh to the eversion of the publick Ministery , and gratifieth Arminians and Socinians , as before I observed , because Faith commeth not by hearing of sent pastors , as Gods ordinance is , Rom. 10. 14. but by the contrary , we aske a warrant from the Testament of Christ , that now since the Apostles are not in the Earth , private men not sent to preach , should be ordinary Fishers of men , and gatherers of Christs church and Kingdome . 2. That Christ hath provided no Pastors nor Teachers to watch over the Elect , yet remaining in the Kingdome of darknesse , and that Christ ascending on high , as a victorious King hath not given Pastors and Teachers by office to bring in his redeemed flock , which he hath bought with his blood , Acts 20. 28. 3. It is against the nature of the visible Kingdome of Christ which is a d●aw-net and an offici●● , a workehouse of externall calling into Christ , even such as are serving their honour , buying a Farme ; and their gaine , buying five yoke of Oxen ; and their lusts , having married a Wife . Luk. 14. 16 , 17 18. 4. It is against the nature of the Ministery , and Wisdomes maides , sent out to compell them to come in . Luke 14. 23. Matthew 22. 4 , 5 , 6. Prov. 9. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. who are yet without .

7. If none can be members while they be first converted . 1. The church visible is made a church visible without the Ministery of the church . 2. These who are baptized are not by baptisme entered in the visible Church contrary to Gods Word , 1 Cor. 12. 13. and the sound judgement of all Divines . 3. All these who are baptized . 2. Who write as Doctors for the defence of the Orthodox Faith . 3. Who seale the Truth with their sufferings and blood . 4. Who keepe communion with visible Churches , in hearing , partaking of the Word and Seales , as occasion serveth , if they be not professedly and notoriously to the consciences of a particular parish converted to Christ , are no members of the visible church .

8. All our Brethrens arguments to prove this Doctrine doe onely prove the truly regenerate to be members of the invisible Church , and not of the visible Church . And if the arguments bee naught , the conclusion must bee naught and false .

9. It is against the Doctrine of Fathers , as a a Augustin . contr. Crescom . l. 1. 6. 29 de baptis . l. 7. c. 51. contr. donati● . coll. . 20. Augustine b b Cyprian● . l. Eph. 6. Cyprian c c Gregror . hom . 11 , 12 & 35. in evang . Gregorius d d Chrysost. in Psal. 39. & l. 3. de sacerd . Chysostome e e Nazianzen , orat . 1. in Julia. Nazianzen f f Eusebius de ● praep. evang. l. 6. c. 18. Eusebius . Who al accord that the visible church is a company of professors , consisting of good and bad , like the Arke of Noah as g g Hierom contr. Pelag. & Luciser . dialog. Hierome maketh comparison .

I might cite Ireneus , Tertullian , Origen , Cyrillus , Basilius , Hilarius , Presper , Ambrosius , Primasius , Sedulius , Just. Martyr , Clemens Alexandrinus , Euthymius , Theophylact , Epiphanius , Theodoret , and Luther , Melanchton , Chemnitius , Meisnerus , Hunius , Hemingius , Gerardus , Crocius , Calvin , Beza , Voetius , Sadeel , Plesseus , Whittakerus , Ioannes Whyte , Fransc. Whyte , Reynoldus , Iuellus , Rich. Feildus , Perkinsius , Pau. Baynes , Trelcatius , Tilenus , Piscator , Ursinus , Paraeus , Sibrandus , Professores Leydenses , Antonius Wallaeus , And. Rivetus , Pet. Molineus , Dam. Tossanus , Mercorus , Fest. Hommius , Bullingerus , Mnsculus , Rollocus , Davenantius , Mortonus .

Quest. 2. Whether or no our Brethren prove by valid aguments , the constitution of the Church visible to be only of visible Saints , of sanctified washen and justified persons .

Let us begin with our present Authour , and with what the (a) Apology saith . We admit all , even Infidells to the hearing of the Word , 1 Cor. 14. 24 ▪ 25. Yet we receive none as members Way of the Churches of Christ in N. E. Ch. 3. Sect. ●●to our Church , but such as ( according to the judgement of charitable Christians , ) may be conceived to be received of God , unto fellowship with Christ the head of the Church . Our reasons be . 1. From the neere relation betwixt Christ Jesus and the Church , as also betwixt the Church and other persons of the Trinity . The Lord Jesus is the head of the Church ; even of the visible Church , and the visible Church is the body of Christ Jesus 1 Cor. 12. and 27.

Answ. To admit as ordinary hearers of the Word and Church Prayers , is a degree of admission to Church-communion , and they who are baptized , and ordinarily heare , and professe a willing mind to communicate with the Church in the holy things of God , they being not scandalously wicked are to be admitted , yea and are members of the Church visible . ● . Set the first reason in forme it is thus ; These only are to be received as Church members who are conceived to be members of that body whereof Christ is head . But the promisccous multitude of professors are not conceived to be such , but only the sanctified in Christ Iesus are such . Or thus , If Christ be the head of the visible Church , then only such are to be admitted members of the visible Church , as are conceived to be members of Christ the head , and not the promiscuous multitude of good and bad . But the former is true ; Ergo , so is the latter . 1. If Christ be the head of the visible Church as visible , it would seeme onely these who are conceived Members of CHRIST , should bee admitted Members of the visible body . True and in this meaning let the Major passe ; but if Christ be the head of the visible church not as it is visible , but as it is a body of believers and invisible , then we see no reason to yeeld the connexion : Because Christ is the Head of True Believers , therefore none should be admitted members of the Church , but such as we conceive are Believers , because they are to be admitted to the visible Church , who are willing to joyne themselves are baptized and doe professe Christ to be their Head , though we cannot conceive whether they be sound believers or not ; for a profession is sufficient to make them members of the visible body , though indeed to be sou●d Believers , maketh them members of Christs Body invisible . 2. That Christ is the Head of the visible Church , as visible , i● not in all the Word of God , he is the Head of the Church catholick and invisible , by influence of the Life and Spirit of Christ , Eph. 1 , 22 , 23. Eph. 4. 16. Coloss. 1. 18. and in a large sense may be called the Head of the church-visible , as visible , in regard of the influence of common graces for the Ministery ; government , and use of the keys : but because of such a degree of Christs Head-ship , it followeth only that these are to be admitted members under Christ the Head , whom we conceive to be ●t members of the Church , as it is a Ministeriall and a governing society , and for this there is not required an union with Christ , as head , according to the influence of the life of Christ , but only an union with Christ , as head , according to the influence of common gifts , for the governing a Ministeriall Church ; in which respect , Christ may be called the Head of Judas the Traitor , and of some other hypocriticall Professors ; and also though the promiscuous multitude , that is a multitude of prophane Atheists and scandalous mockers , be not members of Christ , nor are to be acknowledged as his members , but to be Excommunicated , yet the promiscuous multitude of Professors , whereof there be Reprobate and Elect , good and bad , are to be received and acknowledged as members of Christs visible body , wherof he is Head in the latter sense . 2. The Argument proceedeth upon the false ground before observed and discovered , that Christ is Head of the Church and the Spouse , redeemer and Saviour of the visible Church , as it is visible , which is the Arminian Doctrine of universall grace . 3. If these who are conceived to be members of Christ the Head and sound Believers are to be admitted , why doe you professe that Brethren of approved piety , and so conceived to be Believers by you , and consequently members of Christ the Head , cannot be members of your Church , except they sweare to your Church government , which you cannot make good from Gods Word . Now to refuse communion to these who are knowen to be members of Christs body , and to separate from them is all one , and therefore in this you separate your selves from Christs Body .

The Author addeth . The visible Church is said to be the habitation of God by the Spirit , Eph. 2. 22. to be the Temple of the Holy Ghost , and the Spirit of God to dwell in them , 1 Cor. 3. 16 , 17. To he espoused to Christ as a chaste Virgin . 2 Cor. 11. and sonnes and daughters of the Lord God Almighty . 2 Cor. 6. 18. And are exhorted to be followers of him as deare children , Eph. 5. 1. Now how can the visible Church be the members of the Body and the Spouse of Christ , & c. Except they be in charitable discerning ( as indeed the Holy Ghost discribeth them to be ) Saints by calling . 1 Cor. 1. 2. and faithfull Brethren , Gal. 1. 2. and that not only in externall profession ( for these are too high stiles for hypocrites ) but in some measure of sincerity and truth .

Answ. The argument must be thus . These only we are to admit members of the visible Church , who in the judgement of charity are conceived to be such as were the members of the visible Church of Corinth and Ephesus .

But only such as are the habitation of God by his Spirit , and the sons and daughters of the living God , not only in profession , but in some measure of truth and sincerity , were the members of the visible Church of Corinth and Ephesus :

Ergo , such onely are we to admit to be members of the visible Church .

Now this argument concludeth not what is in question ; Ergo , only these are to be admitted members of the visible Church , whom we conceive to be the Spouse of Christ , and truely regenerated . Now if our conception be erroneous ( as it cannot be infallible ) then we may admit these who are not regenerated , to the Church-membership , if we conceive them to be regenerated ; and so our Brethren say falsely , that the admitted must be Saints and faithfull , not only in profession , but in some measure of sincerity und truth , for these are members of the invisible Church who are truly and in a measure of sincerity regenerated , if our conception be not erroneous : yet it is by accident , that they are admitted de facto , who are not Saints in truth , for the Church may be deceived , and receive in for members of the Head Christ , hypocrites and such as are not the Habitation of God by his Spirit , but of Satan ; as is cleare in Ananias and Saphira admitted by the Apostles to Church-fellowship , Acts 5. 1. 2. and in Simon Magus , Acts 8. admitted to the Church and baptized by the Apostolick Church , who was yet in the Gall of bitterness .

But. 1. The assumption is false , for the Apostle admitted to be members of the Church visible of Corinth and Ephesus , not only Saints by true profession , but also carnall men , deniers of the Resurrection , partakers of the Tables of Divells , and in Ephesus false Apostles and Liers , Revel. 2. 3. But Paul speaketh of Corinth according to the best part : for the Epistle and Doctrine of the covenant is written and preached for the Elects sake and for Believers ; neither is the covenant of grace made with the Reprobate and Unbelievers , nor doe the promises of the covenant , indeed , and in Gods Intention belong to the visible Church , though the Word be preached to carnall men for their conviction . 3 This proposition is false ( these onely we are to admit to the visihle Church , whom we conceive to be Saints , and are in the judgement of charity perswaded they are such ) for the Apostles admit all Professors , even three thousand at one Sermon in one day , Acts 2. and they could not be perswaded in the judgement of charity , that they were all Saints . 4. This argument sayth , that all the visible Church of Ephesus was a Spouse betrothed to Christ , and Saints by calling , which the Word of God sayth not . For were all the carnall in Corinth betrothed as one chaste Virgin to Christ ? were these who called themselves Apostles in Ephesus and tryed by Church censures to be Liers , Revel. 2. 2 , 3. betrothed to Christ as a chaste Virgin ? were all the visible Church the sinnes and daughters of the Lord God Almighty ? and that not only in profession but in some measure of sincerity and truth ? It is true , the stiles given to the Church of Corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites , but these stiles are not given to that Church precisely , as visible and as a professing Church , as you suppose , but as an visible and true Church of Believers : for a Church of Believers and a Church of Professors of beliefe are very different . Paul writing to the Corinthians writeth to a visible Church , but he doth not speake alwayes of them as a visible Church , but as of an invisible , when he calleth them Temples of the Holy Ghost , Saints by calling , &c. he wrote the Epistles to the incestuous man , whom he commandeth to cast out of the Church .

We reade ( saith the Author ) Acts 2. 43. that the Lord added to the Church such as should be saved , and how then shall we adde to the Church , such as God addeth not ; such as have no shew of any spirituall worke in them to any spirituall discerning ? Ought not the Lords Stewards to be faithfull in Gods House ? And to doe nothing therein , but as they see God going before them , receiving whom he receiveth , and refusing whom he refuseth . So upon this ground Paul willeth the Romans to receive a weak brother , because God hath received him , Rom. 14. 1 , 2 , 3.

Answ. Gods acts of speciall and gratious providence , are not rules of duties to us ; God addeth to the Church as it is invisible and Christs Body , it followeth not therefore we are to adde to the Church visible as visible . Gods adding is invisible by giving Faith and saving grace to some to professe sincerely , because we see not Faith nor sincerity , therefore Gods adding cannot be a rule to our adding . God doth adde a person falling into an open scandall to the Church invisible , having given him true Faith , but the Church is not to adde him , but to cut him off , if he be obstinate to the Church , and refuse him , and so this proveth nothing , nor is the place , Rom. 14. by any , except your selves , expounded of a receiving into a Church-communion , as is elsewhere declared . 2. Where there is no shew of saving worke of conversion ; there you thinke the Stewards want God going before to receive , but then except God be seene to goe before to regenerate , the Church Stewards cannot follow to adds such to the Church ; but since that same power that casteth out of the Church holdeth out of the Church , if any after they be received , shall be found to be not added of God , because they be not regenerated , yet we are not to cast any out for non-regeneration , even knowen , except it breake out into scandals , and then the person is not cast out for non-regeneration , for though he were knowen to be regenerated , yet for scandals the Church is obliged to cast him out , because the scandall leaveneth the whole Church , and. 2. The casting out is a meane to save the spirit in the day of the Lord . But I prove , none are to be cast out for non-regeneration , where there be no outbreakings into scandalls . 1. Because , de occultis Ecclesia non judicat , non-Regeneration where it is not backed with publick scandalls is a hidden thing , that the Church can neither judge nor censure . 2. None are to be cast out but for such a scandall , that if the party deny , should be proved by two witnesses , as Christs Law provideth , Mat. 18. 16. 1 Tim. 5. 19. 3. Onely publick scandalls which offend many , are to be censured by the Church , 1 Tim. 5. 20. that others may feare . But non-regeneration breaking out into no scandalls , can neither be proved by witnesses , if the party deny , nor is it a seene thing which giveth publick scandalls , and therefore is not the object of Church censures . For it is evident though the Stewards see some not regenerated , and so not added by the Lord to the Church they are to adde these same and cannot cast them out . And yet God goeth before them in adding them to the visible Church , when they professe the truth . 3. God addeth such as should be saved to the visible Church by baptisme , because the adjoyning to a visible Church is a way to salvation , but it followeth not that all whom God addeth to the visible Church are saved ones , for then the visible Church should consist only of believers , which only Anabaptists teach . 4. Whereas he sayth , The Stewards should be faithfull , and should not adde except God adde , it seemeth to infer that either all the people are Stewards , and so Officers contrary to Gods Word , Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 29. or that onely officers admit Church-members , which is against our Brethrens Doctrine , for they teach , that the whole multitude of believers are only to adde and cast out .

3. If Peters confession ( sayth the Author ) be a Rock on which The Way of the Churches in N. E. Ibid , the visible Church ( to which onely the Keys are given ) is built , then to receive these who can hold forth no such profession is to build without a foundation .

Answ. This conclusion is against your selves , no lesse then against us , except all and every one whom you admit , be builded upon this Rock ; if there be hypocrites in your Church ( as you cannot deny it ) then you build without a foundation . 2. By this , Peter before this confession was an un-churched Pastor built upon no Church-foundation , 3. By this place is not proved that the keys are given to the Church of Believers , but to the Ministers , for then against no parochiall Church can the gates of Hell prevaile . All the Fathers with good reason , as Augustine , Chrysostome , Cyrill , Tertullian , Hieronim . Nazianzen , Cyprian , Ambrose , &c. And our Divines against Papists ( whom you side with in this ) deny , that Christ meaneth here of the visible Church , such as Rome or Corinth , but of the catholick and invisible Church .

4. When ( saith the Author ) Christ saith , Mat. 22. 12. Friend , how camest thou here not having thy wedding garment , he doth intimate a taxing of these , by whose connivence he came .

Answ. The contrary is in the Text , v. 9. Goe ye therefore to the high wayes , and as many as you finde , bid . Here is a charge that ministers invite and call all , and so the Church is a company of externally called , though few of them be chosen , as v. 14. and their obedience is commended , v. 10. so these servants went out into the high wayes , and gathered together all , as many as they found both good and bad . This is a praising rather then a taxing , seeing they are commanded , without trying or selecting only the regenerated , to call in as many as they finde both good and bad . For as many as you finde is as good in sense , as both good and bad , and the latter doth expound the former , and when the Lord commandeth them to bring in as many as they finde , and they finde in the streetes both good and bad , therefore they bee commanded to bring in both good and bad . 2. Yea , the very scope of the parable is contrary to this ; the scope is that many are called externally , and so are the visible Church and that by Gods speciall command both here , v. 9. 10. and Luk. 14. v. 17. v. 21. v. 24. and yet few are chosen , and of the invisible Church . And Luk. 14. severall times the servants or pastors call all ( by the Lord of the feasts commandement ) without exception of regenerated or not regenerated .

5. Christ in the parable imputeth it to the sleepines and negligence of the servants , that tares were sowen amongst his wheat , Mat. 13. 35 , 38 , 39. Ergo , Pastors are to be blamed that there be scandalous persons in the visible Church .

Answ. This doth but strengthren Anabaptists who objected the same a a An●ibaptist . in coloquio francola●●ns . It is a fault that a very popish Doctor Aquinas condemneth . Theologia symbolic● non est argumentativa . For it is not said , while the servants sleeped , the envious man did s●w his seed , but while men sleeped , which is spoken ( saith b b Pareus com . ib. Pareus ) according to the manner of men , for otherwise Gods providence can hinder the growing of tares ; and c c Cajetan com . Cajetan saith , here is not accused the negligence of pastors , and certainly since as d d Bullinger com . Bullinger observeth well , Christ when he expoundeth the parable , passeth this part of it , to teach us ( as e e Calvin com . ib. Calvin saith ) not to presse every part and tittle of a parable , except we would be ( saith Bullinger ) Christo argutiores , sharper sighted then Christ , and therefore the Author alleadgeth that by sleeping of men is understood the negligence of pastors , but that is beside the Text and is not expounded at all of Christ , but signifieth that men cannot see the hollownesse and falsehood of Hypocrites , till it breake out in their actions , no more then the sleeping husbandman can see when weeds grow up in his F●elds . And if the Lord here condemne the sleepinesse of Pastors , for suffering scandalcus Professors to be members of the Church , how doth the Lord forbid these servants to plucke up the tares , but to let them grow till Harvest ? for he commandeth the officers to cast out of the Church and excommunicate the scandalous persons . Yea certainly , seeing the Field is the Field of the visible church , it maketh for us against our Brethren , that wicked men are growing in the visible church . It is true that Barow with the Anabaptistes Barow discov . of a false Church . expound the Field to be the Field of the World , mistaking Christs Words , v. 41. which indeed signifie the Field of the visible Kingdome of Christ , because the World of all mortall men is not the Lords Field , where he soweth his Wheate , but the visible Church only is such a Field . For seeing the Gospell , the immortall seed of the regenerate , 1 Pet. 1. 23. is not sowen through the whole World of mortall men , Psal. 147. 19 20. Mat. 10. 5 , 6. Acts 16. 6. but only in the visible Church , the Field must be Christs Field , or his World of Church-Professors . And also by this , their exposition falleth , for then it is the sleepines and sloth of Preachers that wicked men are borne in the World of mortall men , which is absurd .

We are bidden , 2 Tim. 3. 5. Turne away from such as have a form of godlines , and have denied the power thereof ; Ergo , we cannot joyne The Author objecteth . Ib. in Church communion with them .

Answ. It is cleare by this argument , to our Brethren , that one and the same reason holdeth for turning away , and separation from all persons and Churches , which are not inchurched by covenant , and constituted of visibly regenerated persons , and the not admitting Church-members . So our Brethren by this professe the lawfulnesse of separation from all Churches , except from their owne . 2. No marvell then Paul will have Timothy to separate from Apostates and from Resisters of the truth , v. 8. and from proud boasters , blasp●emers , Traitors . For such are to be excommunicated , as 1 Tim. 6. 3. 5. At l●quitur Paulus ( saith a a Parkerus de polit l. 1. 6. 14. p. 41. Parkerus ) de fundamentali corruptione istius Doctrinae , qu● est secundum pi●tatem : but Paul here forbiddeth to exhort the proud and malitious blasphemers and resisters of the Truth , and not to waite upon them any longer , whereas otherwise he had said in the end of the preceding Chapter , 24. 25. 26. Others , who are detained in the snare of Satan , must be waited on , and instructed with meekenesse , if God will give them Repentance ; Ergo , Tim thy was as a Pastor to instruct unconverted persons , and to joyne in communion with them , but as for desperate enemies and blasphemers , he was not to waite on them , nor to exhort them with meekenesse . And if this Text prove any thing it will conclude against our Brethren , that such as deny the power of godlinesse , should not be hearers of the Word , and farre lesse ( as our Breathren reason ) members of the visible Church .

Can any ( sayth the Author ) judge such persons fit materials for the constituting and edifying of a Church , who are more fit for The Author ibid. the ruine and destruction of the Church , such as leave their first love ( as all hypocrites will at length do ) they procure the removall of the candlestick .

Answ. The argument must be thus formed . All these whom God intendeth shall edifie and not ruine the Church , are to be only members of the visible Church : but all knowen hypocrites are such ; Ergo. The proposition is false , for if we speake of Gods secret Intention and his decreeing Will ; It is not a rule for the Church to square and to regulate them in the choysing or refusing Church-members , because God intendeth in his decreeing wi●l , that many hypocrites , such as Judas and D●mas , shall be Church-members , and let our Brethren judge if they be fit materialls to edifie the Church . If we speake of Gods revealed will , the proposition also is false ; for by our Brethrens Doctrine , it is Gods revealed will that the Church receive as Church-members latent hypocrites , such as Simon Magus , Acts 8. who are conceived to be regenerated , as the church , Acts 8. conceived Simon Magus to be a sound Believer , as our Brethren say , and yet latent hypocrites , are no lesse unfit materialls to build the Church , then knowen hypocrites . 2. We doe not thinke that hypocrites fallen from their first love , and by scandalous living declaring themselves to be such should bee kept in the Church . But so the Author alleadgeth , Revel. 2. That the Church of Ephesus falling from her first love , must bee a false constituted Church , in which there were members fitter to ruine , then to edifie the Church . And yet certaine it is , Paul , Eph. 1. and Christ , Rev●l . 2. acknowledgeth the Church of Ephesus to be a true visible Church .

We passe ( saith the Author ) the types of the Old Testament , which yet are not without their due weight . Rough stones were not Ibid. laid in the building of Salomons Temple till they were hewen and prepared before , 1 King . 6. 7. and behold a greater then Salomen is h●re , the attendance of the porteres suffering none to enter into the Temple who were uncleane ( 2 Chron. 23. 19. ) doth evidently type forth the watchfulnesse of the officers of Christs Church , to suffer none uncleane in estate or in this course of life , to enter into the fellowship of the Church , which ought to be a communion of Saints . Their apology sayth a a A●olog . c. 9. though all Israel were admitted to the fellowship of the Ordinances administrated in the synagegne , yet none uncleane were admitted into the Temple ; for Revel. 21. without are dogs , &c. So Master Can and Robinson presse Can. necessit . of separat c. 4. sect. 3. p. 175. this place .

Answ. In this Type many things are loose and doubtfull . 1. We desire a warrant from the Word , that the Temple was a Type of a visible Congregation , and that all must be as really holy before they enter into a visible congregation , as they behoved to be Typically holy , who entered into the Temple of Jerusalem . The Temple is a Type of Christs Body , Iohn 2. and of the Church of the New Testament invisible , which must consist of sanctified ones , but how it is a Type of the visible Church we see not . For the Lords spirituall building whereof the Corner-stone and the foundation is Christ ▪ is the Church invisible built by Faith as lively Stones upon Christ , 1 Pet: 2. 7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious , v. 5. yee also as living Stones are built up a spirituall House . opposite to the disobedient , v. 7. who stumble at the Word , v. 8. 1 Cor. 3. 9. yee are Gods building , Eph. 2. 20 , 21 , 22. Expressely the building are these who are built on the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles , and grow up into an holy Temple in Christ , and are the habitation of God through his Spirit . This cannot agree to a visible Church , the members whereof may be ( as our Brethren teach from Revel. 2. ) Hypocrites who fall from their first love . Yea also the laying on of stones on the bulding is not the act of inchurching , or of union to a Church , as it must be , if the comparison prove the poynt , but the joyning of the stones to the building is the union of these stones by Faith to Christ , the chiefe corner stone , as is expounded , 1 Pet. 2. To whom comming as to a living stone , v. 5. yee also as liveing stones are built , &c. Yea , and Peter doth not build this comfortable Doctrine all upon the comforts of a Church-state in a single congregation ; for many of these to whom he writ , were dispersed and persecuted through Pontus , Asia , and Cappadocia , &c. And might have , and had an Union with Christ by Faith without a Church Union in a Parish . 2. Though in this Type were signified a morall obligation , that all before they be inchurched in a visible Congregation , should be converted , how is it proved that the Church should receive none to a visible Congregation till they bee converted ? for these are farre different . All should be converted , but there is no new Law commanding the Church to receive none into her fellowship , but the converted . 3. The hewers of stones or builders of the Temple , must Typifie Pastors in Office , dressing stones for the spirituall building , our Brethren make them to Typifie private Christians out of Office , and deny that any Pastors as Pastors doe fit and prepare stones to bee layd on the spirituall building . Also none layd stones on that Temple save onely builders by Office , but by our Brethrens Doctrine , onely Pastors doe not convert Soules . There were no Stones at all in the Temple of Jerusalem , but choice and well squared stones , are no members of the visible Church but the chosen of God ?

3. If the Porters typifie the Ministers of visible Churches , first only Porters hold out the uncleane ; Ergo , onely Pastors should hold out the scandalous , but you admit the whole Church with equall authority to take in , or refuse Church-members . 2. If the Temple be a Type of the visible Church , then no prophane person , nor uncircumcised in heart should meet with the visible Church to heare the Word , for hearing of the word prophanes the holy things of God . This you cannot say , for infidels may be , as you say , fellow-partners with the Church , in hearing the word . 3. Robinson holdeth a a Robinson 〈◊〉 ●6 . that Abrahams seed , and so all the Jewes were to separate themselves from the world , that they might be a visible Church to God , but we read not that the porters were to hold out any wicked person . Yea Jer. 7. professedly they came to the Temple of the Lord who were theeves , adulterers , and wicked persons . And so by that neither are the porters of the visible Churches of the New Testament to hold out unconverted persons because they are unconverted .

Lastly , the place , Revel. 22. 15. For without are dogges , &c. is fouly abused when it is applied to the visible Church , where there may be , and ordinarily are dogges ; yea and liers , Revel. 2. 2. It is true that our divines say , that it is one & the same church which is both visible and invisible , and that visibility is an accident of the church , but they then speake of the Catholick visible Church , but if we speak of a particular visible Church in this , or that place , all in such a Church as they exist , are either holy or prophane , but neither is holinesse , nor prophanes essentiall to a church visible , as visible . idolaters , v. 14. Napper , Pareus , Marlorat , expoundeth it of the Kingdome of glory , for it is that Kingdome spoken of , Rev. 21. 27. but within that Kingdome cannot enter any thing that defileth , neither what soever worketh abomination or maketh a lie , but they which are written in the Lambes booke of life , But it is against all reason and the Lords Word that in the visible Church is nothing that defileth , that is no sinne , but onely those who are written in the Lambes book of life . This is the very doctrine of Anabaptists though we know our deare brethren hate that Sect , and their Doctrine .

a a Robinson Justi . separat p. 97. Robinson . The purest Church on Earth may consist of good and bad in Gods Eye , but the question is about the true and naturall members , whereof the Church is orderly gathered , but as it were fond Philosophy , in the discription of Wives and Children , to make Rebellion a naturall property of a child , and Whoredome of a Wife , so it is as profane Divinity to make ungodly persons the true matter of the Church , and prophanenesse a property of the same , because many seeming Saints creepe in .

Answ. If the holiest Church visible on Earth consist of good and bad , before God , then to be partakers of the Divine nature , Temples of the holy Ghost , Saints by calling , is not of the essence of a visible Church , nor is it essentiall to make one a member of the visible Church , that he be converted . It is sufficient that he be a professor of the Faith . And it is a poore comparison to say , that prophannesse cannot be put in the description of a visible Church , for in the essence of a visible Church as visible , we neither include Holinesse nor Propanenesse , but only a visible company professing the Faith of Christ and called by the Ministery of the Word , whether they be Believers or Unbelievers it is all one , neither of the two belongeth to the essence of a visible church : a visible Church is saved in the number of fourty , all being converted , or in 40. being all unconverted , so they be externally called by the Ministery of the Gospell and prosesse the same . And it is as foolish to make holinesse the essence of a child , as to make it of a visible Church , and as vaine to make chastity the essence of a married Wife ; for this is not our philosophy , but a conceit of Mr. Robinson falsely imputed to us .

a a Robinson . Ibid. 97. Robinson . All the Churches that ever the Lord planted consisted of good only , as the Church of the Angells in Heaven and of mankind in Paradise . God hath also these same ends in creating and restoring his Churches , and if it were the Will of God that persons notoriously wicked should be admitted into the Church , then should God directly crosse himselfe and his owne ends , and should receive into the visible covenant of grace , such as were out of the visible estate of grace , and should plant such in his Church for the glory of his Name , as served for no other use , then to cause his Name to be blasphemed .

Answ. This argument proveth that the visible Church is not a visible Church , except it consist of onely holy and gratious persons , without any mixture ; and so not only holinesse in profession , but holinesse reall and before God is required essentially to a visible Church . Then Pastors , Doctors and Professors , binding and loosing , clave non errante , are not a visible Church . Yea , this is downe right Anabaptisme that no visible Churches are on Earth , but such as consist of reall Saints only . 2. It is most ignorantly reasoned , that God in creating Man and Angells good , did not intend that they should fall by his permission , but that they should continue holy and then God was frustrated of his end , as Arminians and Socinians Teach . So sayth a a Arm. Antip. p. 60. Arminius Antiperk . b b Corvinus ep. ad Wallachros p. 19. Corvinus . The Remonstrants c c Remonst. in script . Synod . art. 2. p. 256. in apolog. c. 9. sol . 105. at Dort , and d d Socinus contra puticum . c : 10 sol . 32● . Socinus , that God intendeth and purposeth many things which never come to passe . 2. His Decrees faile and are changed . 3. Men may make Gods Decrees of election fast and sure , or loose and unsure , as they please . 3. Here is much ignorance that God intendeth nothing that may be against the glory of obedience due to him , as Law-giver ; as if sinners and hypocrites being in the Church because they are dishonorable to God , should crosse Gods end , and purpose : so Tertullian e e Tertullian contra Marcionem . O ca●es &c. Si Deus bonus & praescius futuri & potens , cur hominem possus est lahi ? bringeth in some whom he calleth dogges , thus reasoning against providence , which suffereth sinne to be in the World so contrary to his Will and goodnesse : And who denieth but Christ commanded Judas to preach , and that the Apostles according to Gods Will and Cammandement received Ananias , Saphira , Simon Magus in the visible Church by baptizing them ( for I hope the Apostles sinned not against Gods revealed Will in admitting them to the visible Church . ) And shall we say that God directly in that crosseth himselfe and his own ends , because God gathered hypocrites into his Churcch , and yet they dishonour and blaspheme the Name of God ? Whiles Robinson saith , Gods maine end in gathering a visible Church is , that they being separated f f Robins . p. 98. from the World , may glorifie his Name , he speaketh grosse Arminianisme , that God faileth in his ends . Lastly , he saith that God cannot will that persons notoriously wicked should be in his visible Church , for then he should crosse himselfe and his owne ends advert ( notoriously ) is vainely added , seeing we teach that notoriously wicked ought to be cast out of the visible Church ; as also if he shall will wicked persons , let alone notoriously wicked , or latent hypocrites to be in the Church , yea or in this visible World , he should by this Arminian argument crosse himselfe and his owne ends ? Do you believe with Arminians that Gods end is , that Angells and men should have stood in obedience , and that a Redeemer should never come to save sinners ? And that blasphemy and sinne is against Gods purpose and intended end , and that sinne crosseth him ? but when all is done it is his intention and revealed will that hypocrites be invited to the visible and preached covenant , and yet he knoweth that they are out of the visible , yea and invisible state of grace .

a a Robinson p. 98. Robinson . In planting the first Church in the seed of the woman , there were only Saints without any mixture , now all Churches are of one nature and essentiall constitution , and the first is the rule of the rest .

Answ. Though God planted Adam and Eve two restored persons , to be the first repenting Church ; from Gods fact you cannot conclude a visible Church gathered by men , should be voyd of all mixture , so as it is no visible Church ; if it be a mixed company of good and bad , this is contrary to his owne commandement , Mat. 22 9. Go and call as many as you finde . 2. Gods acts are not rules of morall duties , his Word and Commandement doth regulate us , not his Works . God hardeneth Pharaos heart , should Pharao harden for that his owne heart ? God forbid .

Robinson . Cajan that evill on was broken off , and cast out of the Church , and by Moses it is imputed for sin , that the sonnes of God ●id . married with the daughters of men ; Ergo , it is far more unlawful to contract with the wicked in a religious covenant of the communion of Saints .

Answ. Wee grant such as Cain are to be excommunicated , but what then ? Ergo , none can be members of a visible Congregation but such as Abel , we love not such consequences , a Though God forbade his people to marry with the Canaanites , yet he forbade not that the Godly and ungodly should come to the Temple together , and that Noah and cursed Cham should be in one Arke together . 3. Though it be a sinne that the wicked should mix themselves with the godly and come unto the Kings supper without the wedding garment , yet that is not the question , but if the pastors inviting all to come to the supper do sin , and 2. If the Church be not a true visible Church , though it consist of good and bad .

Robinson . Circumcision is a seale of the righteousnesse of Faith , Page 98. Gen. 17. 10. Rom. 4. 11. Now to affirme that the Lord will seale up with the visible seale of Faith any visibly unrighteous and faithlesse person , were , that God should prophane his own Ordinance .

Answ. God doth by this argument profane his owne seale , when a visibly wicked person is sealed with the seale , as when one visibly unrighteous is sealed , for the latent hypocrite profaneth the seale of Righteousnesse , as the open and visibly unrighteous and faithlesse person doth . Yet it is Gods command that the latent hypocrite have the seales of Righteousnesse , since the Church conceiveth him to be a sound professor ; Ergo , by your Doctrine God commandeth to prophane his owne seales , but this is the wicked reasoning of Arminians , and Socinians . So Arminians against Perkins , Corvinus against Molin●us , the Arminians at the synod of Dort would prove an universall grace accompanying the Word and Sacraments , and they say that Sacraments doe not seale remission of sins , redemption in Christ , and that they be empty and toome ordinances yea and mocking signes , except all who receive the seales , both elect and repro●ate be redeemed in Christ , and have grace to believe . But the truth is , God doth not prophane his owne seales , because he commandeth that they be received with Faith : and let us see where any male child , reprobate or elect , borne amongst the Iewes , but he is by Gods Commandement to be circumcised , yet that seale was an empty ordinance to thousands in Israel . 3. Nor is the seale , a seale of righteousnesse , actu secundo , sed actu primo it is a seale of righteousnesse , as the Word of God is the power of God to Salvation , not to all , nor of it selfe , but by the efficacious grace of God , to every one that believes .

Iohn Baptist ( saith Robinson ) Christ and his Apostles being to repaire the desolation of Sion , did not by the coactive Lawes of men Robinson Justif. of lepat . p. 99. s●● ffle together good and bad , as intending a new monster or Chimaera , but admitted of such and none other , as confessed their sins a a Luk. 7. 29. 30. and justified God , and were not of b b John 15. 18. 19 , 20. the World , but chosen out of it , and c c Acts 2. 41. 42. did receive the Word gladly , and communicated all of them in all things , as every one had neede , and that in gladnesse and singlenesse of heart , as receiving Testimony of the Holy Ghost himselfe , that they were such as should be saved , as were d d Act 20 28. all of them purchased by the Blood of God , as e e Rom. 1. 8. for all for whom there was cause to thinke God , as whom the Apostle f f Phili. 1. 3. 4 , 5. did remember in his prayers with gladnesse , being perswaded that God would perfect his good Worke begun in them , as became him to judge of them all , being all partakers of the grace of God with him in the confirmation of the Gospell , and after whom all he longed from the g g 1 Thes. 1. 2 , 3. & 2 Ep. 2 , 3. very heart roote in Christ , and for all whom he gave thankes , alwayes making mention of them in his prayers , without ceasing remembring their effectuall Faith , diligent love , and patient hope in the Lord Jesus , which did grow in every one of them .

Answ. Here is much Scripture abused to no good use ; 1. that coactive Laws of Princes be the onely way of inchurching people , we never taught ; but of this hereafter . 2. He calleth the Kingdome of God which is a draw-net of good and bad h h Mat. 13. 47. 48. a called company invited to the Supper of the Gospell , whereof many are called , but few are chosen . i i Mat. 22. 9. 14 which is the field where grow Wheat and Tares k k Mat. 13. 36 , 37 , 38. the Barne-floore wherein is Corne and Chaffe . l l Mat. 3. 12. He calleth ( I say ) these men good and bad shuffled together in a new monster or Chimaera . Sinne is a monster , but that it should be in the world is not without the decree of efficacious providence , except we turne Epicures with Arminians . 3. That all and every one baptized by Iohn Baptist justified God , and were true converts is more charity , then the verity of the Text Luk. 7. can warrant . 4. And that the visible Church consisteth onely of men chosen out of the World , as he spake from Ioh. 15. is a plaine contradiction to that ( many are called , but few chosen out of the World ) and serveth much for Huberians , who will have all the visible Church chosen , and for Arminians who make all in Gods intention separated from the World , and so make election to life eternall , as universall in the visible Church as the preached Gospell . 5. It is an adding to the Text , Acts 2. That the visible Church ( all of them ) and you say did communicate in all things with singlenesse of heart , and were to be saved . For we have not so much charity to bestow on An●nias , Saphira , and Simon Magus , who were added to the Church visible : but why call you this the Testimony that the Holy Ghost giveth of all them ? where did you reade or dreame this ? The Holy Ghosts Testimony is true , and what Divinty is it , that all added to the visible Church shall be saved ? deeme you with Origen and some others that none are eternally d●mned ? 8. And you say of the visible Church , Acts , 20. 28. All of them were redeemed by the Blood of God . If Luke had said so , I could have believed it , but your saying is groundles . All whom they are commanded to feede , and all who were to be devoured by grievous Wolves , and all the drawen away Disciples of false Teachers , 29. 30. Are all these redeemed by the Blood of God ? Th●● Church is an Arminian Chimaera : that all to whom the Gospell is preached by Feeders and Pastors , must be obliged to believe that Christ by his Blood redeemed all and every one of them , is Arminianisme . a a Corvinus contra . Molm. c. 27. Corvinus and b b A●n . Antip. p. 72. 73. Jac. Arminius , c c Grevincho . contra . Am●sium . p. 8. 9 , 14. 15 , 21. Nic. Grevinchovius d d Episcop. disp . 6. Thess. 1. 2. Episcopius , e e Socinus praebet . Theol. c. 22. f. 139. Socinus f f Smalicus resp. ad 4. par. resu Smigles . c. 28 s. 259. Smaleius g g Ostorodius Iustit . c. 36 , 37. sect. 2. Ostorodius will thanke you , for they hold that Christ gave his Blood for all the damned in Hell , and purposely to redeem them , and for his part gave his life for all the World , and especially for the visible Church . 7. That the Apostle gave thanks to God , for the sound faith of all who professed the Gosspell at Rome , and were perswaded that God would perfect the worke of salvation in all and every one of the Philippians , is a wicked dreame , that they were all partakers of the grace of the Gospell , and that all the Thessalonians , without exception had effectuall faith , diligent love , and patient hope . All this is said , without ground of Gods Word : and contrary to the Word . Were there none , Rom. 6. Servants of sinne ? None who walked after the flesh ? Rom. 8 So Rom. 14. and Phil. 3. 2. 18. Phil. 2. 21. 1 Thess. 4. 2. 2 Thess. 3. 8 9 , 10. None in Philippi whose God was their belly ? none who minded earthly things ? No dogs ? No evill workers ?

a a Robinson . ib. p. 104. Robinson ; The Jewes were forbidden by God , under the Law to sow their Field with diverse seeds , and will he sow his own Field with Wheate and Tares ? and b b Page 103. the Lords Field is sowen with good seed , Mat 13 , 24 27 , 28. His Vine Noble c c Jer. 2. 21. and all the seed true , his Church Saints and beloved of God d d Rom. 1. 7. but through the malice of Satan , and negligence of such as keep the field adulterate seed and abominable persons may be .

Answ. God who is above a law forbiddeth the Father to kill the son , yet may he command Abraham to kill his son , in positive Lawes , such as sowing of seeds , Gods practice is not a Law to us ; I remember Jesuites , especially Suarez , Didac . Ruiz Molina , Laessius , Lod. Meratius Hiero. Fasolus and their Disciples , the Arminians , labour to prove that God cannot predeterminate the will of man to the positive acts that are in sin : For then he should be the author and cause of sin which he forbiddeth us to do , and he would not do himselfe , say they , that which he forbiddeth us . Which is but in the generall a weake answer , for it followeth not hence , that he is the author of the malice , because he praedeterminates the will to the positive act of sinning . For though God in his working Providence permit wicked men to be in the Church ( as you cannot deny his providence here ) yet doth it not follow , that he soweth wicked men in the Church . Nor doe we say , that it is the Lords appoving and revealed will that hypocrites should joyne with his friends at the marriage supper of the Gospell , they wanting their wedding garment . It is hypocrites sin that they joyne themselves to the Church , they being heart Enemies to the truth . And in this respect God soweth them not in the Church . But the question is if the Church and Pastors sin in receiving such into the bosome of the Church , because they see not , in conscience , that they are regenerated : That we deny , yea the servants bid all come whom they finde . Mat. 22. 9. and that by the commandement of God . And in this respect God doth not plant his visible Church a noble Vine , and a Field sowen with good seed , yea it is his revealed Will that the Church and the Servants of God invite all to come to Wisdomes banquet , Prov. 9. 2. 3. and so all the called externally are not the choise Vines . This you are to prove , that the visible Church in all its members , or essentially as it is a visible Church is a choise Vine , and an holy seed . Nor is it the Pastors negligence that Tares grow in the Lords Field ( though it be Satans malice ) yea the Pastors here are to invite all to come in , and to call externally all to come to Christ . That they who are invited give not obedience is their own wickednesse , but neither the Churches , nor the Pastors sinne .

(a) Robinson . There be amongst you hundreds and thousands (b) Robinson . Justis . 212. partakers of the life of God in respect of your persons , but in respect of your Church Communion , and your Ordinances , you are all alike , because you are all alike partakers of one set forme of worship .

Answ. The Church of the Jewes so should be a falsely constituted Church , because however there were many Believers amongst them , yet all are commanded to receive one Ministery of Sc●ibes and Pharisees sitting in Moses chaire . But know that the leaven of the externall worship ( except it evert the foundation ) doth not make the Church a falsely constituted Church .

a a Robinson Iustis p. 164. Robinson , Mr. Smith truely affirmeth your Church to be a greater Antichristian Ministery and worship then Rome , as the Temple which sanctifieth the gold , and the altar which sanctifieth the offering is greater then the offering : so the Temple of the New Testament , the Church and people of God , by whose Faith all the Ordinances of the Church are sanctified , is greater then the Ministery , worship , or any other Ordinance , and being Idolatrous is a greater Idoll .

Answ. This is a new poynt of Divinity that the Faith of the Ministery or congregation sanctifieth the worship ; as the Temple did the gold and the altar the offering : yea though the Minister were a Judas , and the people latent hypocrites , the Ordinances of God lose no authority , for all the Ministeriall sanctifying of the Ordinances is from Christ the Instituter , not from the instruments ; and the Donatists did suspend the power of the Ordinances of God , upon the holinesse , or unholinesse of the Instruments . 2. The Ministery in its substance is not Antichristian , though it be from the Antichrist . For Prelates giving of a ministery is not to be measured by the particular intention of the Ordainers , but by the Nature of Gods Ordinances , and the generall meaning of all the Catbolick Church .

Robinson here objecteth , The Law sayth nemo potest plus juris in alium transferre , quam ipse habet . Prelates have no calling of God themselves , therefore they cannot give it to others .

Answ. Prelates reduplicativè , as Prelates have no calling , yet as Pastors they have , and Antichristian prelacy destroyeth not the essence of a Pastors office in the subject . They object , as a Prelate he ordaineth Ministers , and not as a Pastor . Answ. 1. as a Prelate he usurpeth to give a Ministery , but as a Pastor he giveth it . 2. He invadeth the place of the Church and with consent of the Church standeth for the Church , though he be not the Church , but a simple Pastor , therefore what Ministery he conferreth , it is the deed and fact of the Church . 3. They object , No man can give that which he hath not . Answ. No man can give that which he hath not , neque virtualiter neque formaliter , true ; what he hath in no respect , that he cannot give . What he hath in vertue or in some respect , that he can give . What baptisme the hereticall Minister hath Ministerially , that he may give validly . a a Hieron . in diale● advers. Lucif●rian . Hieronimus saith , the Luciferians admitted Baptisme conferred by an Heretick , but not a Ministery , Anatolus was consecrated by Dioscorus , Faelix by the Arrians , as Mr. b b Iohn Ball answer to Can p. 98. Ball observeth . So c c Bellarm. de sacrific . li c. 26. Bellarmine . d d Gratian. decret c. 1. q. 1. c. 32. 32. Gratian e e Nazianz. Orat. 40. Nazianzen , f f August . consess . ar. S. August .

They say g g Apol. c. 1. we finde it by experience that the refusing of Church-communion hath been blessed of God , to their conversion who were holden cut . Answ. Manass●h his being bound in fetters was a meanes of his conversion . David by his afflictions learned to keep Gods Commandements : did therfore the persecuters of Manasseh or David right and lawfully ?

The Apostles ( say they h h Apol. c. 2. had commission to Baptize none but Disciples , Mat. 28. 19. Answ. See you doubt not of a warrant for Baptizing children , who are not Disciples : for then the Apostles from this place had no warrant to baptize the infants of Believers .

We should ( say they i i Apol c. 9. open the doores of the Church more wi●● then God alloweth , how shall we lay wittingly and willingly dead stones in the living Temple ? If Christ be a Head of pure Gold , and the Churches golden candlestick , how shall we be allowed to put in leaden members ?

Answ. This argument is against the Lords dispensation , because not without his providence are hypocrites in the Church . It is not against his Commandement , for he alloweth and commandeth the Church to take in Hypocrites , so they professe the truth , and so commendeth that leaden toes and members be added to Christ the Head of gold . Christ is the Head of the invisible Church properly and according to the influence of the Life of God , but he is the head of the visible Church as it is such according to the influence of common gifts , which may be in Reprobates . And they may be this way in Christs Body , who are not of Christs Body , as Augustine sayth .

We are ( say they ) accessary to the prophaning of the Lords Ordinances . Answ. So far as they are notoriously scandalous they are to bee cast out of the Church , and debarred from the Seales .

The Church ( say they ) shall be pestered with prophane and carnall men , and the blind shall lead the blind , if all be admitted to Church f●llowship .

Answ. The admission or keeping in of all to partake especially of the Lords Supper , we doe not allow . 2. The multitude of carnall men in the Church is an inconvenience of providence , and resulteth by accident , from the receiving of Professors to Christs Body visible ; but it is no kindly fruit growing therefrom .

A faithfull servant ( say they a a Apol. c. 11. would admit none into his Lords House , but servicable instruments , therefore neither may the Stewards of Gods House ( which is a spirituall building ) admit any but men of spirituall gifts , living stones , sanctifyed and meet for the Lords Worke.

Answ. The comparison halteth many wayes . 1. All in a Noble mans house , are not stewards , you make all the Church to be stewards having the power of the Keys to put in , and out . 2. Members are received into the Church , not onely because they are serviceable , for the masters use , but to be made servicable and to be polished by the Word of God , and care of Pastors , but servants are taken into great houses because they are servicable ; for if that follow , that they are made more servicable , it is not the intent of the Lord of the house , or of the under-stewards . 3. The Oeconomy of Princes houses is no rule for the government of the house of the King of Kings .

Mr. Coachman b b Peter Coachman cry of ● stone sect . 7. p. 16. 17. while the materialls and pillars of the house are rotten , and the house founded upon Briers , Brambles and rubbish , that is , while wicked men are members , no Discipline , 〈◊〉 Reformation , no censures , no Election by the multitude will doe good .

Answ. The connexion is naught , the fruit and power of Gods ordinances depend not upon the conversion or non-conversion of the instruments , the preaching , Sacraments , censures are of themselves golden and exercisers and dispensers thereof , following Christs direction therein are golden , eatenus in so far , though in respect of their personall estate they be wooden and clay members voyd of faith . 2. It is false that the visible Church is founded upon men or their Faith . God strengtheneth the barres of his own Sion . And Christ and the Gospell are the pillars thereof . Nay the Church strandeth not upon Peter and Paul and the Apostles faith subjective , because the Apostles were holy men and Believers , but upon the Apostles Faith objectivè , that is , upon the saving truth that the Apostles delivered from Christ to the Churches , Ephes. 20. 21. 1 Cor. 3. 11 , 12. Mat. 16 , v. 18.

Quest. 3. Whether or no there be a true Church communion with ordinary hearers of the Word , who cannot be admitted to the Lords Supper , and what union excommunicated persons who d● heare the Word have with the visible Church ? and how the preaching of the Gospell is an essentiall note of the visible Church ?

For the clearing of these confiderable poynts tending much to a fuller understanding of a true visible Church in its right constitution , let these considerations make way to what we can say of these poynts .

1. Dist. There is a difference betwixt ordinary and setled bearers of the Word , and transient and occasionall hearers .

2. Dist. Publick ordinary preaching for the converting of soul●● is a publick Church - worship . Another set way of ordinary publick use of converting soules , by preachers not in office , wee know not .

3. Dist. Some be members of the visible Church properly and strictly , such as are admitted to all the seales of the covenant and holy things of God . Others are lesse properly , or in an inferiour degree , members of the visible Church , such as are baptized and are ordinary hearers of the Word , but not admitted to the Lords Supper , of old the Catechumenoi were such . As there be decr●●s of Citizens , some having all the priviledges of the City and some onely right to some priviledges , but not to all . 3. Some have right to all , and are most properly in the visible Church .

4. Dist. Excommunication being medicinall and for edificati●● , cannot cut off the member close , except we should confound killing and curing .

5. Dist. There is a note of a ministeriall Church , such as is preaching of the Word of God , and a note of the visible Church of Believers , and obedience professed to the Word preached is such a note .

6. Dist. Preaching of the Word may well be a note of the Church invisible in fieri while it is in gathering , because God purposeth to convert where the Word is purely preached . 2. A note of the invisible Church already constituted , in so far as it is obeyed . And. 3. A note of the Ministeriall Church , in respect where God holdeth out the Standard of the preached word , there is his ordered army .

1. Conclusi . To communicate with the Church ordinatily and of set purpose is an act of externall Church communion . 1. Because if the preacher in preaching edifie the Church convened for that effect to receive edification , and if he convince the I●fidell by preaching and cause him fall downe and worship God , and report that God is in that meeting , then to communicate with the Church in hearing and preaching is an act of externall Church communion . Because an act of worship terminated and bounded upon the Church is a Church-act . But the prophet prophecying in publick to the Church edifieth the Church and converteth infidells in causing them to worship & acknowledge Gods presence in a Church-meeting . As is cleare . 1. Cor. 14. 4. He that prophecieth , edifieth the Church . v. 5. v. 12. seek that you excell to the edifying of the Church . 29. Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding , &c. 23. If therefore the whole Church be come together into some place and all speake with tongues , and there come in these that are unlearned and Unbelievers , will they not say that yee are mad ? 24. But if all prophecy and there come in one that believeth not , or one that is unlearned , he is convinced of all , &c. And that this is a Church-meeting formally , it is cleare , because it is said , 34. let your women keepe silence in the Churches , now women out of a Church-meetings are not commanded silence , for Tit. 2. 4. They are to teach the younger women : and at home in the house , Prov. 31. 26. She openeth her mouth with wisdome , and the Law of grace is in her lips . Acts 20. 7. and upon the first day of the week the Disciples came together to breake bread , and Paul preached to them . Had they not then a Church Communion in hearing the Word , as in the receiving the Sacrament : Our brethren say that eating one bread together at the Lords Table is properly a Church Communion . For thereby , we may eat one bread we are one body , for we all partake of one bread 1 Cor. 10. 18. But heating one word is not a Church-communion , because Infidels and Turkes who are not members of the Church may heare one word , 1 Cor. 14. 24 25. I answer 1. Wee speake of a professed and resolved hearing . Turks and Infidels comming in without purpose to joyne with the Church , as 1 Cor. 14. 2. 25. are not such hearers . 2. If this were a good reason , a latent hypocrite eating one bread with sound believers at the Lords Table , should keepe no Church-communion with the Church , for by our Brethrens Doctrine , a ●ypocrilt is no more in deed and truth a member of the visible Church then a leg of wood is a member of a living body .

But we hold that he is a true member of the Church as visible , and that his binding and loosing with the Church ( suppose he be an Elder ) is no lesse valid in Heaven , when Christs order is followed , then the binding and loosing of a believing Elder , and therefore that his eating at the Lords Table is an act of externall Church-communion , and of visible fellowship in a visible body , and the same is every way strong for a visible Church-fellowship , in hearing the Word , for that same Christ and fellowship with him , which is sealed in the Sacrament , is preached in the Word ; and as joynt communicating of hypocrites and Believers is an externall Church-communion , ought to seale an internall communion with Christ and his Church , so the joynt-hearing in a professed adjoyning to the visible Church it a compartning visible in a visible worship , and a prosessing of an union with that same Christ and his Church in the same word preached . For as the Apostle concludeth the unity of the catholick Church by one Baptisme , so doth he conclude it from one faith , and one Lord of the covenant preached to all .

2. The visible Church of called and chosen , and not chosen , is the scope of the parable , Mat. 22. and Luk. 14. 16. 17. &c. Now v. 9. Mat. 21. All are bidden come to the Supper , and be joynt-hearers of the Word of the Gospell , though all be not choses who are externally called . 1. Also if converting of soules to the Faith of Christ be the most formall and specifick act of edifying , and of laying stones upon the chiefe corner stone in the building , 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5. seeing edifying is the end whereof Christ ascending on high , gifted his visible Church with Pastors and Doctors , Eph. 4. 11 , 12 , 13. Then hea●ing and joynt-hearing of a sent Pastor , Rom. 10. 14. must be formally externall co●worshiping in a visible Church . For our Brethren hold that there be now no Pastors under the New Testament , but in relation to a particular and visible congregation . Now if our Brethren say , that pastorall teaching is an act of a visible Church , hearing of pastorall preaching must also be an act of Church worship . For they are relata quae se mutuo ponunt & tollunt ; yea members of a visible congregation have no Church-worship except receiving of the Sacraments and Church censures , if hearing of a pastor be not Church-worship .

3. Under the New Testament every congregation to our Brethren Mat. 13. The Church of he●rers is called the visible kingdome , v. 41. Exod. 20. Heare O Israel Ez. 33 31. they sit before thee ( to heare the Word ) as my people . is a visible mount Sion . Now if under the New Testament the people are to incite one another to publick Church worship , and say . Let us go to the mountaine of the Lord , to the house of the God of Jacob. and he will teach us his wayes , Esa. 2. 3. And if they shall publickly worship and aske the way to Sion , that they may be joyned in covenant to the Lord , Jer. 50. v. 5. Then is hearing of he doctrine of Gods wayes and covenant , a publick church-worship , and the service of the Church or house of the God of Jacob . But the former is true ; Ergo , so is the latter .

4. If it be not Church-worship to heare the Word , a pure and sound preaching of the Word is no note of the Church , contrary to the Word , and the unanimous consent of the Reformed Churches .

5. Hearing of the word is a worshiping of God . Ergo , the Church-hearing of the word must be Church-worship . For all professing by their visible communion in hearing the Word , one Faith , one Lord , one Hope of glory , and that as one visible body , must thereby testifie they be all joynt-worshippers of Christ and of one God , whose covenant they preach and heare .

6. Professed hearing separateth a visible member of the church ( in genere notarum visibilium , in the kind of visible marks ) from an Infidell and Turke no lesse then the receiving of the Lords Supper doth .

7. Professed hearing maketh the hearer under a ty of being particularly rebuked of his sinne , but particular pastorall rebuking being done by the power of the keyes presupposeth the rebuked to be within ; for the Church cannot judge those who are without .

2. Conclu . Excommunicated persons though they be debarred from the Lords Supper , and delivered to Satan , and to be accompted as heathen and publicans , yet are they not altogether and every way cut off from the visible Church . 2. Thess. 3. 14. If any obey not our word by letter , ●arke such an one , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , with the note of Excommunication ( saith a a Beza . an . in loc. Beza ) and have no fellowship with him , that he may be ashamed , that is , as Calvin well expoundeth , exclude him out of the company of the faithfull , and Calvin com . in loc. excommunicate him . So also c c Bulling. com . in loc. Bullingerus d d Marlorat . in loc. Marlorat and e e Iodoc●s vullichius in loc. Iodoc. Vullichius , v. 15. Yet accompt him not as an enemy , but admonish him as a brother . I know Mr. Robinson f f Robin . 249. denieth this place to be understood of any Excommunicated person , but he willeth the Thessalonians not to countenance , but to shew their dislike of idle persons ▪ and his reasons are . 1. Because if Christ biddeth accompt the excommunicated person as an Heathen and a publican , would Paul thereafter accompt him as a brother ? 2. Idolaters and Hereticks are to be excommunicated , and will you have such a brotherhood , as brother idolater ?

But I answer , 1. We read not in the New Testament , where Christ , or his Apostles bid break off Christian fellowship with any but there is excommunication signified . If these words 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , have no fellowship with him , that he may be ashamed , signifie , not to forbeare fellowship with him , as a cast out person , but only to shew their dislike of the sin , that he may see it , and be ashamed : as Robinson sayth , there is no more punishment to be inflicted on a contumacious person who will not obey the Apostles words , then is inflicted for any sinne to which contumacy is not added ; for we are to shew our dislike of any sinne , even the seene infirmities of our Brethren . For Augustine saith , peccatum tuum est , quic quid tibi non displicet , every sin in another is thine , against which thou shewest not thy dislike . 2. The Law of nature doth inforce , that Lev , 19. 17. we should generally rebuk our brethren , and so shew our dislike for any sinne .

3. Be not mixed in fellowship with such a man , is a publicke ab●●nence from communion with him , else it doth not shame him . For every showen dislike or not-communion with another in his sinne , is not that which will put publick shame on him , that he may repent , as is intimated here . 2. Christ biddeth not accompt him a Publican , but 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is a note of similitude . Simile qua simile non est idem . Every thing like is not the same . So that he may well be accompted as an Heathen , not being altogether an Heathen , and yet a Brother , whose salvation and gaining you must intend . Nor is it altogether against the comparison of Christ , and that gentle waiting on perverse idolaters and excommunicate persons to admonish them as Brethren . Seing it becommeth us to be mercifull as our Heavenly Father is , 2 Tim. 2 24 , 25. Mat. 5. 45. And we must forgive our offending Brethren seventy seven times , Mat. 18. 22. And therefore though he were twice excommunicated , he is to be dealt with as a Brother . And an Idolatrous brother is no worse then a Samaritan neighbour or friend . 2. If Excommunication be a medicine of the Church toward a sick sonne , the end whereof is salvation , that the spirit may be saved in the Lords Day , 1 Cor. 5. 5. that he may learne not to blaspheme , 1 Tim 1. 12. That be may be gained , Mat. 18. 15. Ergo , he is not altogether cut off from the Church , for delivering to Satan is medicinall , not vindictive , as the great Excommunication is which is called Anathema Maranatha , which we cannot use , but against such , as have sinned the sin against the Holy Ghrist , and is hardly discerned , and I would think , such an one as Julian the Apostate should be debarred from the communion of the word preached . But these who are ordinarily excommunicated for contumacy and particular faults , and not for universall Apostacy , are not altogether excluded from all brotherhood of the Church . 3. If the excommunicate person be excluded from all priviledges of Church-fellowship , then also is he excluded from hearing the word as a sick patient under Church-medicine , for it is a pastorall , and so to our Brethren a Church-act , that the Shepheard strengthen the diseased , heale that which is sick , bind up that which is broken , bring againe that which is driven away , seeke that which is lost , Ezec. 34. 4. And feed the flock with knowledge , as a Pastor according to Gods heart and a Bishop . Jer. 3. 15. Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Jerem. 23. 1 , 2 , 3 4. Jer. 50. 7. Esay 56. 10. Z●ch . 11. 9 , 10 , 11 , 12. It is a Pastorall act to preach with all authority , reprove , rebuke , exhort with all long suffering and doctrine , 2 Tim. 4. 2. 5. He should as a Pastor teach sound doctrine , exhort , convince the gainsayers , and silence heretickes , Tit. 1. 9. But seeing the excommunicated person is not excluded from hearing the word , and the Pastor hath a Pastorall care of his soule , and is to intend that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord , 1 Cor. 5. 5. he cannot be utterly cut off from all Church-fellowship . Also this Authour a a The way of the Churches , ch. 1. sect. 1. p●op . 3. saith , that Church-members are to be admonished , and if we doe it not , we hate them in our heart , Levit. 19. 17. and if we warne not an Achan , his sin is the sin of all Israel . Now if an excommunicated brother remaine one , whom we are to gaine , and whose salvation we are to intend , if he be an ordinary coworshipper in hearing , the object of Pastorall and brotherly teaching and admonishing , he cannot be wholly excluded from all Church-fellowship . And this also proveth that these be members of the visible Church in some degree of Church-worship , who yet are deba●red from the ●eale● of the Covenant . And it cannot be said that the excommunicated person ought not to rebuke his brother , and not hate him in his heart , as Levit. 19. 17. Penall excommunication looseth not from the Law of nature . But our brethren make rebuking and mutuall exhorting one of another Church duties of watchfulnesse ; then is the excommunicated in some degree of Church-membership . Nor can our brethren here reply with good reason . Indians and Turks may heare the Word as well as the excommunicated person , and therefore hearing of the word is no note of Church communion .

I answer , the Turke and Indian must heare the word , but at the by , and not professedly ; but the excommunicated person by the●ty of his Covenant made in baptisme , and that relation he hath to the Church under whose cure he is , for the saving of his spirit , and to that Gospel which he professeth , is obliged to the Church-communion of publique hearing the Word ; yea , and according to his oath given , to be subject to the ministery of such a man whom he chose for his Pastor , to give obedience to him in the Lord , however in that one particular for which he is cast cut , he hath failed against all the foresaid obligations . 2. The Church , as a visible Church , exerciseth no medicinall acts upon Turks or Heathen persons , and doth not repute them as Heathen , but doth repute them to be Heathen . Nor hath the Pastors any pastorall charge of Turkes and Heathens , except they would desire to be baptized and professe the faith . But the Church as the Church exerciseth medicinall acts of shunning Christian f●ll●wship with the excommunicated , and that with a continuated intention even when he is excommunicated , that his spirit may be saved in the day of God , and the Pastor hath a pastorall , and so a ministeriall care and obligation of pastorall teaching , admonishing and perswading him to returne to God .

4. Neither doe we meane with a a Suarez to● . 5. ad tert. part . Thom. de censur . disp. 5. sect. 1. de excom. not . 3. Suarez and other Schoolmen , that excommunication doth not so cut off a member as it removeth not that baptismall character , or that passive power to receive the Sacraments ; or that the prayers of the Church are not offered of direct intention , for the inwardly humbled and repenting excommunicated person , while the sentence of absolution be pronounced by the Church , as b b Soto 4. d. 22. q. 1. Soto , c c Adrian de clavibus q. 3. ad 1. Adrianus , d d Alanus de sacrif . Misse , l. 2. c. 3. and Alanus thinketh , because forsooth f f Innocentius 1 1 1. de excom . Innocentius 111. saith , the excommunicated person , though repenting , and doing what he can to be reconciled to the Church , yet without absolution from the censure , he is mortuus Ecclesiasticè dead Ecclesiastically , and so in Heaven also . Though g g Navar. c. 27. n. 18. Navar , h h Turrecrem . c●si quis Episco . 11. quest. 3. Turrecremata , i i Richard . in 4. d. 18. sect. 7. q. 2. Richard , k k Anton. 3. part . tit. 24. c. 76. Anton. thinke the penitent excommunicated person is included in the generall desires of the Church in their prayers , because it is not the intention of the Church to exclude a true and living member of Christs body from a communion spirituall with Christ . But our meaning is , that the excommunicated person is deprived of actuall fellowship with Christ in the Seales of the Covenant , as the l l Concil. Araus . 11. q. 3. Councell of Arausican , A gremio 〈◊〉 matris Ecclesiae & consortio totius Christianitatis climina●us . His sin is bound in Heaven , yet so as the salvation of his spirit is intended by the Church , see for this m m Augast . in Joa● . tractat . 5. and epist. 77. Augustine . We understand not a baptismall character , except regeneration and 〈◊〉 of sins , which cannot be taken away by excommunication , and therefore a morall claime to the holy things of God , and that for that time and state is rather removed , then any internall right to Christ . Therfore some say , in this he loseth rather possessionem quam jus , possession then right . As a Nobleman , for some offence , of three dwelling houses that he hath , is confined to one of the three , so as he may not remove from that one ; yet doth he not lose right to the other two .

5. Our brethrens doctrine is , that none can be judged and excommunicated , but those who are within the visible Church ; n n 1 Cor. 5. 11 , 12 , now none are within to them but such as are supposed to be regenerated and saints ; yea and more , faithfull brethren , not onely in profession ( saith our o o The way of the Churches , cap. 3. sect. 3. Authour ) but also in some measure of sincerity and truth . Hence none are to be excommunicated and delivered to Satan , but regenerated persons ; then it cannot be the Churches mind , that the excommunicated persons are wholy cut off from the visible Church , since they being the true matter of the Church , as our brethren teach , remains therefore a part of Christs body in covenant with God , having right to the promises of the Covenant , and so these to whom the keyes are given , by our brethrens grounds , and are regenerated , can onely be excommunicated , and none else can be excommunicated , by their way also , for the unregenerated are without , and so cannot be cast out .

I know not what Mr. Robinson can meane p p Robin . justif . of separat . p. 248. that the Church cannot cast out ( as he saith ) any part or parcell of her true matter . The Church cannot excommunicate the regenerated , 1. Because ( saith he ) the true matter of the Church , hath the forme and essence of the Church , and the Church cannot cast out her owne essence . 2. The Church should deliver to Satan the true members of Christs body , which he abhorreth to write .

But I have learned of q q Coachman , cry of the stone sect . 4. p. 12. Mr. Coachman that onely the converted are to be excommunicated , because they have a spirit to be saved in the day of the Lord , 1 Cor. 5. The non-converted are flesh ▪ but truely this is strange , Paul speaketh of the incestuous person according to the judgement of charity , as supposing hi● to have flesh and Spirit , as he professeth himselfe to be a member of the Church ; but truely this is weake : for in the same Chapter Paul will have drunkards , railers , extortioners , idolaters , to be excommunicated . Peter did really excommunicate Simon Magus excluding him from part and portion in the visible Church . Act. 8. 21. and are such not to be excommunicated because they cannot be cast out , who were never within ? See into what inconveniences our brethren are fallen , while they agree ( I speake with reverence of those godly men ) with Anabaptists in the nature of the visible Church . But truely hypocrites are within the Church , and when their hypocrisie doth breake out into grievous scandals , they are to be cast out of the visible Church ; but they cannot indeed be cast out of the invisible Church , because they were never within the same , but our brethren still doe confound the visible and invisible Church , which in nature

August . de doct. Christi , l. 3. c. 32.

Contra cresoen . l. 2. c. 21.

and essence are opposed by way of contradiction , if Augustine say right , multae oves extra visiblem Ecclesiam , & multi lupi intra . For the Church invisible as it is such and essentially , is not the Church visible ; and the Church visible is not essentially invisible . But to returne to Robinson , if the regenerate cannot be excommunicated , they cannot fall into such grievous sinnes as incest , murder , and contumacy to the Church , which deserveth excommunication . But this latter none can say but Novatians . Ergo , neither can the former be said . The major is undeniable , whosoever can , and may commit sins deserving excommunication , are to be excommunicated , as Christ saith , Matth. 18. 17. 18. and Paul , 1 Cor. 5. 4 , 5. Now if the converted cannot fall into grievous sins against the Church , such as contumacy ; neither can they fall into grievous sins against God , 2. By this doctrine no professors are to be excommunicated at all , for all within the visible Church are either converted or non-converted ; the converted are not to be excommunicated , saith Robinson , because they are the true members of the Church , and of Christs body ; now the non-converted far lesse can be excommunicated , because those cannot be cast out who are not within , as our brethren teach . For they are the false matter of the Church , and no part of it , yea ( and as our Authour saith , ) have no measure of sincerity and truth ; and therefore cannot be members of the Church . Now the Church ( say our brethren ) cannot judge those which are without , 1 Cor. 5. 12. 3 This opinion is just the opinion of the Anabaptists , that the true members of the visible Church are onely regenerate persons , and they onely have the essence of the true membership , which is false ; they are within the visible Church , and truely within the net , and a part of the ground called the Kingdome of God , Matth. 13. 4. Though they be not members of the invisible Church of believers and the redeemed in Christ . 4. The Nicolaitans , Iezabel , the false Apostles , the spreaders of Balaams doctrine , Revel. 2. and those who offend in Christs Kingdome are all necessarily either not to be excommunicated at all , or necessarily they are all unconverted , by Robinsons doctrine , or all converted , by Mr. Coachmans way . And the Church then shall not bind and loose in Heaven , but clave errante , except they be all known certainly to be converted who are excommunicated , or certainly knowne not to be converted . But this were ridiculous ; the object of excommunication by Christ is one which refuseth to heare the Church , whether he be converted , or not converted . 5. All our Divines standing for the cerainty of the perseverance of the regenerated , answer Papists and Arminians alledging for the apostacy of the Saints , the example of the regenerated who may be excommunicated , that excommunication doth never evince that the person excommunicated is out of the state of grace , but onely that he hath fallen into a scandalous externall fact , which deserveth that he should be delivered to Satan , and that one may be a member of the visible Church and converted to God , who is excommunicated . Lastly , Robinsons arguments doe bewray great Ignorance in the doctrine of the true Church ; to wit , that first it should follow , that if the Church excommunicate a converted person , it should destroy its own essence ; for conversion is the essence of the invisible Church , not of the visible Church , and is not destroyed by excommunication . But the beleever is edified thereby , for he is delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord ; but that he is cut off from the visible Church is no more inconvenient , then to cut off a rotten apostume of excrescent carnosity of the body , which hurteth the physicall integrity of the body , but doth not take away any part of the essence , so as it should not thereafter be a living body . His mixt argument hath a cry , but no force ; It should follow that the member of Christs body ( saith he ) should be delivered to Satan ; which is not inconvenient , for this is the Ordinance of Christ to save the mens spirit , and to teach him not to blasph●me , 1 Cor. 5. 5. 2 Tim. 1. 20. It were an inconvenience to deliver a member of Christ to Satan morally , as 1 Cor. 6. 15. This is a sinfull deliverance , when one is given over to Satan , that Satan may worke in him as in his work-house , and as in a childe of disobedience , Ephes. 2. 2. a converted soule cannot thus be delivered to Satan , and this we abhor to write , no lesse then Robinson . But to deliver to Satan penally , as to a penall tortuter who worketh sorrow and feare in the conscience for sinne , to humble the offender , and to save his spirit in the day of Christ , is neither horrour by word nor by writ , but the Word of God , 1 Cor. 5. 5.

Now to say something of the sorts and nature of excommunication . We acknowledge not what a a Navar. Enc●●r . c. 27. n. 13. Navarrus and b b G●●g . n. q. 3. c. 1. Gregory say , That excommunication , whether just or unjust , is to be feared ; for , the curse causl●sly doth not fall . The sentence is either given out , a jure , vel ab homine by the Law , or the persons . Secondly , it is either just or unjust . Thirdly , and that three wayes ; Exanimo , good or ill zeal ; secondly , Ex causa , a just or unjust cause ; thirdly , Ex ordine , when order of Law is kept . An unjust sentence is either valid or null . That which is invalid is either invalid through defect of the good minde of the excommunicators , and this is not essentiall to the excommuncations validitie . That which is invalid this way onely , ligat , it bindeth in fo●o exteriore . But that which is u●just through want of a just cause , it onely bindeth from externall communion ; but because Gods Ordinances are to be measured from their own nature , and the generall intention of the Catholike Church , and not from abuses and particular intentions of such excommunicators ; therefore they doe not exclude from the generall Church-desires . The fourth Councell of Carthage , c c Concil 4. Carthag . as also d d Gerson de excom. cons. 4. Gerson saith , an unjust sentence neminem gravare debet ; should affright no man . I see not a warrant for division of excommunication into penall and not penall excommunication . The ancients made some excommunication not penall , as the e e Concil. Carthag . 5. c. 10. fifth Councell of Carthage , and f f Concil. Arelatens . 2. c. 19. Concilium Arelatense . g g Concil. Turraconens . c. 6. Turraconense , h h Concil. Agathens c. 35. Concilium Agathense . As if one should culpably absent himselfe from a Synod , erat privatus Episcoporum communione ; He was for a space excommunicated from the communion of other Bishops . The Canonists i i Stephan . Qu. in summa . Bulla 5. con . provinc . n. 7. q. 18. infer , that this excommunication was no Church-censure ; and k k M Antonius de Dom. Arch. Spalat. de repub . eccles. l. 5 c 9 n. 6 , 7. M. Antonius of Spalato defendeth them in this . But since Christ for scandals appointed onely publike rebuking ; or secondly , confessing ; or thirdly , excommunication from the Church , not onely of Church guides , but of professing beleevers ; l l Mat. 18. 17 , 18. we see not how any are to be excommunicated from the fellowship of the Clergy , or Church-guides onely . For Christ ordained no such excommunication . and therefore wee are to repute this a popish device . Zosimus m m Z●s . epist. 2. saith Zancbius , n n Coelcst . cp . 6. Celestinus , o o Horm . cp . 45 Hormisda and Pelagius 2. p p Pelag. 2. cp. 1 did threaten to excommunicate Iohn of Constantinople from the communion of the Apostolike seat , and of all Bishops . Spalato his argument q q M. Anton. de dom. loc. citat . n. 8. for this sort of excommunication is , 2 Thessalonians 3. 15. which commandeth all Thessalonians to forbeare any fellowship with such as obeyeth not the Apostles doctrine , and doth not insinuate any excommunication from the society of Church-guides onely . Nay , such an excommunication is not in Gods Word . Cajetan r r Cajet. com . in 2 Thess. 3. 15 calleth it excommunicatio claustralis , whereby some were interdicted the company of some other Church-orders . It is true , that in the ancient Church the excommunicated person was debarred from comming to the Church to heare divine Service . And Sylvester appointeth three degrees of excommunication ; first , Debarring of the contumacious from entring into the Church ; secondly , A suspending of them from communion with the Church ; thirdly , An anathema or imprecation by cursing them . So the fifth Synod under Symmachus appointed first that the contumacious should be deprived of the Communion ; and if he should not repent , it was ordained , ●● anathemate feriatur , that he should be cursed . So say diverse of the Schoolmen and Casuists , as s s Solo disp . 22. q. 1. art 4. Soto , t t Paludanus . d. 18. q. 6. Paludanus , u u Cajet. in verb. excom. major . c. ultimo . Cajetanus , x x Sylvest. excom. n. 5. Sylvester , y y Navar. in summ● 27. n. 19. Navarrus , that it is not lawfull to heart service , or to be present at a Masse with an excommunicated person . But in the z z Concil. Car. ●hag . 4. c. 84. Ep●scopus nullum pre●ibeat ingredi Ecclesiam , & audi● verbum ' Dei sive gentilem , sive h●reticum , sive Iudaemn fourth Councell of Carthage , as a a ‛ De consestat . dist . 1. c. 67 Papists acknowledge , no excommunicated person is debarred from hearing the Word . But it is to bee observed carefully , that for the same reasons Papists think the excommunicated persons should heare Sermons and the Word preached , that our brethren say , Because preaching is an act of jurisdiction and authority , but not an act of order ; and therefore preaching is not an act of Church-communion , but common to any who have not received orders , and may be performed , as the reading of the Word by Deacons , and those who have Priest-hood or power to administrate the Sacraments . And b b Innocent . 3. verb. excom . Innocentius the third saith , Preaching is proper to Priests , who have received orders by no divine Law . c c Leo 1. cp 63 cap. adjicimus ib q. 1. Indeed Leo the first made a Law of it , for which cause d d Suarez . to . 5. disp. 12. de excom sect . 2. n. 4. Christus hic Joan. 21. Mat. 28 Non dedit po●estatem ordinis sed jurisdictionis . Neque jure divino hic actus requirit ordinem , se● authoritatem pasloris . Suarez saith , That Christ in these words , Iohn 21. Feed m●sheep ; and Matth. 28. Preach the Gospel ; gave power of jurisdiction , but not of order onely : It is given commonly ( saith he ) to the Clergy to preach , and to Deacons , because decentius , it is more fi●ly and decently performed by them then by Laicks . Though it be true that two Cardinals , e e Tol. com . in Joan. 21. an 7. Toletus and f f Cajet. com . in . Joan. 21. v. ib. Cajetanus be against Suarez in this , and say , that , Iohn 21. Peter is made the head and universall Pastor over sheep and lambs to feed and governe them . And g g Navar. sum . 26 c. 11. 163. Navarrus saith , Preaching ( soli sacerdotio institutione divina adjuncta est ) is by divine institution proper to the Priesthood . Yet this excluding of them from comming into the Church , was from comming in to the holy place only where the Lords Supper was celebrated ; and they stood at the Church doore where they might heare the Word , and therefore were called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 hearers and murmurers , as h h Basil , cp . 3. ad Amph. c. 58. Bas●lius saith , and i i Field book 3 of the Church . cap. 15. Field , Excommunication doth not wholly ( saith he ) cut off men from the visible Church , and his reason is good , because they may and often doeretaine , first , The profession of pure truth ; secondly , The character of Baptisme ; thirdly , They professe obedience to their Pastors ; fourthly , They will not joyne to any other communion . And therefore to say with our Author k k The Way of the Churches of Christ in N. E. ch . 4. sect. 6. we dare not , to wit , That though the seed of faith may remaine in the excommunicated person ; yet to the society of the faithfull joyned in a particular visible Church , they are not knit , but wholly cut off from their communion . Also , he is delivered unto Satan , and therefore wholly cut off from the communion of the Church ; and so from the seals , he and his seed , as heathen and heathens seed are . We condemne Novatians , because ( as l l Cyprianl . 4. cp. 2. Cyprian saith ) they denied mercy to the repenting excommunicated person , and because ( as m m Socrates l. 7. c. 25. Socrates said of them ) God onely can forgive sins . And we condemne the Donatists , who would not ( as n n August . contra Donatistas de bapt. lib. 5. cap. 1. Augustine saith ) receive into the Churches commmunion againe such as had delivered to persecuters the Bible and other holy things . So we are to condemne these who are more rigorous toward such as are excommunicated , then Christ is : for Christ keepeth them , as sick children , within his visible Church , and useth Satan as the Physitians servant who boyleth Herbs and dresseth Drugs for them , while he by Gods permission , tormente●hthes spirit with the conscience of sinne . As when a child is sick ( saith worthy o o Cartwright C t●h . Cartwright ) the Father calleth a Colledge of physicians to consult about medicine , to be given to the child . So i● the contumacious person under the medicine of excommunication administred by the Church-presbytery . Now this wee cannot say of heathen and publicans .

And therefore p p August . de 〈…〉 . Augustine sayth excellently , excommunicated persons non esse Ethnicos , sed tanquam ethnicos ; are not heathen , but estemed as heathen . c. 6. and q q Chrysostm . ●om . 11. ad Eph. Chrysostome saith the same in sense . Yea , I gather this necessary distinction out of the Fathers : as Chrysostome r r Chrysostome . Theophylactus s s Theophylact. ●● Mat. 18. Hilarius t t Hilarius . that they are not members of the visible Church actu pleno , in a full act , because they want externall communion with the Church , yet actu imperfecto , imperfectly they are members . A second distinction I collect from w w Ireneus l. 4. c. 62. Ireneus x x Gregor. hom . 24. in Evang. Gregorius y y Hieron . in Au●s 1. Hieronim . z z Optatus con . parm●nd . 1. c. 2. Optatus a a August tract . ●● 〈◊〉 . 122. Augustine , that they are exclusi ab ecclesia quoad communionem , non ab ecclesia ipsa . They are excluded from the visible communion of the Church , rather then from the Church . A third distinction may be drawen from b b Eugenius 4. 〈…〉 ent . Eugenius c c Chrysost. hom . 21. in ●oann . Chrysostome d d Gregor. Nazi●a . orat . ad ●anct. Gregor. Nazianz●● , while they call Baptisme januam spiritualem , and lavacrum animae , the doore of our entry to the Church ( for which cause papists , though fondly , place their Font at the Church-doore ) as the Lavat●r of the soule . So as excommunicated persons are within the doore of the visible Church , though not admitted to the Kings Table . 4. The Schoolemen do allow to the excommunicated persons , jus , non consortium ; right , but not fellowsh ●● 5. e e Turr●●rem . l. 1. c. 57. Turr●cremaeta f f Vega in Trident●n . con. l. 23 c. 10. Vega. g g Pet. a Scto . ● part . defens●●n . B●ent . Soto h h Can. loc. com . 4. Canus insin●●● distinctionem inter partes & membra Ecclesiae visibilis , because of some externall communion that they have , as Teeth are parts of the body in a new borne Infant ; but they are not members , but they deny them to be members because they are cut off . 6. i i Suarez . de ●●ipl . virtute Theolig●d . 9. sect. 1. n. 14. Suarez excellently , pr●vantur quoad communicationemcum al●s membris , non quoad esse membri . They are deprived acording to the act of communion with other members , not as if they ceased to be members ; as a member which cannot receive nourishment is yet still a member .

Our Divines from Scripture make three degrees of excommunication . 1. A debarring from the Lords Supper , Mat. 5. 24. but it is not indeed a delivering to Satan or excommunication : this is called the lesser excommunication . 2. A delivering to Satan , the greater excommunication . 1 Cor. 5. 3. 4. of this we speake here especially . 3. Maran-atha in the Syriack an is utter cursing till Christs second comming .

3. Conclus . Wee hold the preaching of the word to be an essentia note of the visible Church . Our Brethren as k k Coachman . the cry of a stone sect . 3 p 8. Mr. Coachman l l Robinson . Justis . of separat . p. 8. Robinson m m The way of the churches Ch. 1. Sect. 2. our present Author , deny that the profession or preaching of the Word is a true note of the visible Church . Because , Acts 17 , Paul preached to the scoffing Athenians , who were not for that a visible Church . 2. Papists have some of Gods Ordinances , and hereticks also , as baptisme ; and the Old and New Testament as the Philistins had the Arke of God amongst them . 3. The word may be preached , where Christ is but gathering a Church , and so is a meane of gathering a Church , and therefore not an essentiall note of a gathered and constituted Church . But herein our Brethren say no more against the Reformed Churches , then n n Stapleton relect . 1. con . de Eccl. 4. 4. ar. 5. & ib. note ● . Stapleton ; to wit , that truth of doctrine is no note of the Church , because it is not perpetuall and constant . 2. Truth of Doctrine concurs to give being to the Church and to the constitution of it . o o Bellarm. de eccl. militant . l. 4. c. 2. Bellarm. This note may be found in other societies and companies beside the Church , a● amongst Scismaticks and Hereticks . More of this please the Reader to see in p p Costerus de Eccl c. 2. p. 109. Costerus q q Gordonius Huntlaeus tom . 1. cont. 2. c. 4. p. 141. q. 4. in the Jesuite Gordonius , Huntlaeus . And this is the doctrine of Socinians , as may be seene in the Cathechisme of r r Raccovia . c. 1 Raccovia s s Theol. Nicolaides in defenstractat . de eccles. p. 54. 55. in Theo. Nicolaides , and t t Smalcius in refut. fran . disp. 6. p. 282. 283. Francis . Smalcius , and Arminians second both in their w w Remons . in Belgro in confess . sua . c. 22. Thes. 8. confession : because they think with Socinians , that there is no ministery now necessary , and so publick preaching is not a note of the Church , especially since every gifted man may preach the Word . Socinus in his tractate De Ecclesiâ , and his Catechisme of Raccovia , saith . Notae evangelicorum nihil valent ; ‛ Doctrina pura est Ecclesiae natura & essentia quae dat ei esse , ad●óque signum ejus esse non potest ; cum signum ipsum , a re c●jus est signum , differre oporteat . But the truth is , the preaching of the Word hath diverse relations . 1. As the members of the visible Church are in fi●ri , in the way to be gathered , the Word preached and believed is a way of gathering a Church , Rom. 10. 14. 1 Cor. 1. 23. 1 Cor. 3. 5. Acts 16. 14. 2. That same word preached , believed , and outwardly professed is a signe of the visible Church . For where Gods pastors and shepheards are , there be flocks of redeemed ones , Cant. 1. 8. Iohn 10. 12 , 13 , 14. 3 The Word simply preached and professed in a setled way of a fixed ministery is a note of a ministeriall Church ; this is cleare from Gods intention , for he sendeth it of purpose to save his own , as Rom. 10. 14. Acts 20. 28. For a man lighteth not a Candle in his house for nothing . So this word preached , as it is Gods Word , is not properly the forme and essence of the Church , but as believed and received , it is the forme of the Church invisible . 2. But to professe this word savingly , est signum Ecclesiae , non not A , it is a signe , that doth not infallibly notifie to us that such is for this time an invisible Church of redeemed ones : for I have not infallible certainty what one man , or what determinate number of men by name are true believers , profession may beguile me , as also the invisible Church ( as such ) is believed , and not knowen infallibly by any note or externall marke that incurreth into the senses . Neither is the preaching of the Word a note or infallible marke of the Church ministeriall to all , or in relation to Infidels ; for the Word preached actu primo & ex naturâ suâ , essentially and of its own nature , is more knowen and more sensible then the Church : because the preached word is a Doctrine expounding what the true Church is , and we do not expound ignotum per ignotius , vel per aequè ignotum . Darknesse cannot let us see darknesse , or colours ; only light doth reveale things . But the word preached in relation to unbelievers cannot be an infallible note of the Church , for to a blind man the morning as not a sensible marke that the sun is rising ; nor is smoake to a dead man , a sensible marke of fire , because he hath no senses to discerne either . So to the infidell though the word as a sound , or in a literall evidence be clearer then the Church , and in a confused knowledge he knoweth the one better than the other ; yet is the true word , in respect of certaine knowledge and spirituall evidence , as darke to him as the Church : for he hath not Eares to heare , nor eyes to see any of the things of God , either the word preached , or the Church ; and therefore the word is both by nature and to us , & naturâ & nobis , in respect of distinct knowledge , more knowen , but not simply as the word , actu primo , but actu secundo , as it both striketh upon outward and inward senses and as i● revealeth and discovereth the things of God , according to that , 1 Cor. 14. 24. But if all prophecy , and there come one who is an unbeliever , and an unlearned , he is convinced of all and judged of all . v. 25. and thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest , and so falling downe on his face , he will worship God and report that God is in you , of a truth . So here is Gods order how the word preached is a notifying marke discovering to an unbeliever the true Church . It I would poynt out one of the Kings Courtiers by this , that he hath a purple cloak and a blew scarf , if the man to whom I notifie the Courtier , do neither know what a purple garment is , nor what a blew scarf is , the marke shall be no marke to him : yet are these sufficient markes in their owne nature , if we suppose that no other Courtiers are in that manner apparelled . Therefore I would difference betwixt notam notificantem & notam notificativam , a note that of its owne nature doth make a thing knowen , or that which actually maketh a thing knowen to some .

The settled professed preaching of the Word is a note of the visible Church Ministeriall , and that there either is , or in Gods own time shall be some invisible Church of sanctified ones there . 1. Because , Deut. 4. 6 the hearing and doing of Gods Word maketh the Church of the Jewes a renowned and wise people in the fight of the Nations . 2. The preaching of the Word and administration of the Sacraments are proper to the Church and distinguish them from other Nations , Psal. 147. 19. Hee sheweth his word unto Iacob , and to Israel his statutes and his judgments , 20. He hath not dealt so with any Nation . So Deut. 17. 29. 30 31 32. The Lords worship is so peculiar to his Church as it differenceth them from all others . So Esd. 2. 8. 3. Esa. 59. last verse . 3. The Church is defined , Acts 2. 42. a company of these who professe truly , and continue in the Apostles doctrine and breaking of bread . 4. The planting and gathering of Churches is expounded to be teaching and baptizing , Mat. 28. 19. 20. 5. Christs sheep heare his voyce in his own sent shepheards , Joh. 10. 27. 28. 6 The Church is a company built upon the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles , Eph. 2. 20. 7 The Church is the pillar and ground of truth , 1 Tim. 3. 15. because the Church teacheth , professeth , and keepeth the truth . So a a August . l. de unitat . Eccles. c. 2. Augustine b b Tertullian advers. Heret . Tertullian c c Hieron . com . in Psal. 133. Hierom. d d Chrysostom . bom . 40. in Mat. and Chrysostome will have us to seeke the true Church by the true Word of God , and not by mens word . e e Robins . just . p. 256. Robinson objecteth first ; Profession of the truth made by men of lewd conversation maketh them not the Church ; because they deserve to be cast out of the Church , but by men visibly and externally holy , Mat. 3. 6. Acts 1. 38. Act. 2. 37 , 38. 1 Cor. 15. 1. Mat. 10. 40. 41. Acts 8. 12 , 13.

Answ. These and many other places do strongly prove our poynt ; and especially , that the profession of Simon Magus who before God deserved to be cast out of the Church , Acts 8. is sufficient to make one a member of a visible Church . Yea but none deserve in foro Ecclesiae , in the Churches Court to becast out , but such as either confesse scandalous sins , or are contumacious , or convicted judicially of the same before witnesses , otherwayes the dearest to Christ , do legally before God deserve all to be cast out .

Robinson saith , The word in the Bible is no note of the true Church , but the Word believed and obeyed ; for Papists have the Bible . And f f Coachman ●ry of the stone sect 3. pag. 8. & p 3. Mr. Coachman saith , the Philistims had the Arke amongst them ; and a Iesuit at a river side baptized with a skoop a thousand Indians ; were they for that a true Church ? and Papists , ( saith our g g The way of the Churches ch. 1. sect. 3 Authour ) have baptisme .

Ans. The like is objected by Socinus , Theoph. Nicolaides , Cattch . Raccoviensis , and by Anabaptists . But first we make not the word and materiall Bible , and naked seales the marks of the true invisible Church ; we are now disputing about the markes of a visible Church . 2. We make not the naked presence of Word and Sacraments true markes of the Church ; but a setled professed erected feeding by shepheards , feeding with knowledge , we make a marke of the shepheards Tents ; which way neither Philistines nor Indians have the Word of God : and for the Church of Rome ; we cannot deny but she retaineth so much of the essence of a ministeriall Church , as maketh baptisme administrated by them to be true baptisme , that is , a valid seale , though she cannot 〈◊〉 be called a true ministeriall Church .

Other two questions here are shortly to be discussed , as belonging to this purpose ; as 1. whether discipline be a marke of the visible Church ? Mr. Robinson h h Robins . just. of separ . p. 282 , 283. saith , the power of censures is simply necessary for the being of the Church , sundry of our Divines affirm it is . So the i i Prof. Leyd . in Synop. pur . Theol. disp. 4. thes. 41. learned Professors of Leyden , and k k Ursin , Pareus in Catech. Expl. q. 59. art. 6 de Ecces . Ursin with Pareus . Great l l Jun. to 1. disp. theol . 44. Thes. 41 42. Junius saith , it is a note belonging to the Churches order , ad decorum , the m m August . confes . art. 7. Augustine confession leaveth it out from amongst the notes , and so doth Calvin n n Galvin . inst. 4. c. 1. sect. 9. and Whittakerus o o Whittak . de Eccl. cont . 2. q. 5. c. 17. make two notes onely , Word and Sacraments . Learned p p Beza in confes . art . 7. Beza maketh onely the preaching of the Word a note , not excluding the other two . I thinke Distinctions may help the matter ; 1. There is a power of discipline , and there is a care thereof . True Churches have a power given them of Christ , and this Robinson proveth , and no more ; yet the care to exercise the power may be wanting in a true Church .

2. Distinct. Right discipline is not necessary for the essence of a visible Church . All our Divines condemne Anabaptists and Pelagians , who plead that righteous men onely , and such societies as have right discipline to be true Churches . 2. Novatians and Donatists came neere to them in this also , as we may see in q q August . cont . Don●●ist . Augustine . So r r Serv. of the Church book . 1. ch. 18. Rich. Field , s s Parker de polit. Eccl. l. 1. c. 17. Parker , t t Cartwright advers. haeres . ibid citatur . Cartwright make it necessary to the wel-being of the Church ; 1. Because it is not indifferent . 2. Because it is commanded in Gods word . 3. Discipline in the substantiall points is immutable . 4. It is necessary in respect of the end . And all this w w Parker de Politia l 1. per totum lib●um . the learned Parker demonstrateth to be true . But it is not necessary simply to the being of it : as a City may be without walls , a Garden without an hedge .

3. Distinct. The power and right to discipline is a propriety essentiall to the Church , and is not removed from it , till God remove the Candlesticke , and the Church cease to be a visible Church ; but the exercise may be wanting and the Church a true visible Church , from which we are not to separate .

4 Discipline is a necessary note and unseparable from a visible Church , whole , intire , and not lame and imperfect . But ● Church may retaine the essence and being of a visible Church , and yet have no discipline in actuall use , or little , and though want of discipline doe leaven a Church , yet it doth not ( as Robinson saith ) evert the nature thereof , and turne it into Babylon and a den of Dragons . Robinson will have prophanenesse and impiety by absolute necessity rooted out by discipline , but he is too hasty . Nay not by publique preaching of a sent Pastor , through absolute , but onely through ordinary and conditionall necessity . You bind the Almighty too hard .

The other question is , if conversion of sinners be an ordinary effect of a publique and sent ministery ? Our brethren in their answer to the 32 Questions sent to them , deny this ; but no marvell , seeing all conversion to them is done without the publique ministery by onely private Christians , and in this we see no necessity of a called ministery to convert men to Christ , which is the doctrine of Socinians and Anabaptists . So x x Chemnitius part . 2. Locor . de Eccles. p. 314 Anabaptis●ae dicunt si quis doctrinam Evangelii tr●elligat seve sit sutor sive sartor 〈◊〉 faber eam do●ere & concionari d●bere . Chemnitius , so y y Gastius de err●ribus Catabaptistarnm , l. 1. c. 15. Gastius teacheth . The Socinian z z Theol. Nicolaides ●● act . 〈◊〉 de Eccles. c. 1. p. 146. Theo. Nicolaides , Luther erred , ( saith he ) when he asked from Muncerus his calling to preach , Muncerus was an Anabaptist . So a a Ostorodius inst. c. 42. Ostorodius in his institutions , and b b Raddetius in notis ad lib. Smigles . p. 32. Raddetius who objected the same that our brethren doe , that the whole beleevers be a royall Priesthood . But though we deny not , but some may be converted by the teaching and private conference of private Christians ; yet the ordinary publique way is by the Word preached by a se●● Pastor , as is cleare , Rom. 10. 14. 1 Cor. 3. 5. Acts 9. 10. Acts 10. 5 , 6 , &c.

CHAP. 10. SECT. 10.

Concerning our order and form in administration of Gods publique worship .

THe Authour here contendeth for the worship of God in its native simplicity , without all ceremonies ; to which I can oppose nothing , but shall prove the unlawfulnesse of humane ceremonies in another Treatise , God-willing .

Of the communion of the visible Catholique Church .

IEsus Christ hath now under the N. Testament a Catholique visible Church on earth ( for of that part of the Catholique Church now triumphing in glory ; or of that part which onely is a Church of elected Saints , and are not yet formally a professing Church , but onely such in the predestinatiun of God , I spake not now ) and to this Church universall , visible , hath the Lord given a ministery , and all his Ordinances of Word and Sacrament principally and primarily and to the ministery and guides of this Catholique visible Church hath the Lord committed the Keyes , as to the first subject , and for the visible Church Catholique , including also the invisible Church ; as for the object and end hath he given his ordinances and the power of the keyes ; And the Ministery and ordinances are not given to this or this Congregation which meeteth ordinarily in one place , principally , 1. The Lord Iesus gave this Ministeriall power to the universall guides of the catholick Church , the Apostles as they did represent the Presbytery of the whole Catholick visible Church , Ioh. 20. 21. As my Father sent me , so send I you . 22. And when he had thus sayd he breathed on them , and said , receive the Holy Ghost . 23 whosoever sinnes you remit , they are remitted ; and whosoever sinnes you retaine , they are retained . The Apostles here receive the keys in name of the whole Catholick Ministeriall guides . For in this the Apostles must stand in the person and roome of a single society of believers united by a Church covenant in one parishonall Church , if our brethrens grounds stand good ; so as a Parishionall Church must be the onely successors of the Apostles , but this no Word of God can warrant . Nor is the Eldership of a single Congregation that which the Apostles here represented ; except you say to this Eldership , as to the first subject , is this message of sending , as the Father sent Christ , committed , and to this Eldership within one Congregation is the power Ministeriall of pardoning and retaining sinnes given ; For I aske , from whence , or from whose hands do the Eldership of a Congregation receive the keys ? from Jesus Christ , say they , but this is no answer , the Ministery according to its institution is no doubt onely from the head of the body the Church , from Iesus Christ . But I aske now of an ordinary Church-calling ; and I demand from whose hands under Jesus Christ have this particular Eldership received Ministeriall power : they cannot say from themselves , for they doe not make themselves Ministers : they will not say from a Colledge of Presbyters of many congregations , for they are flatly against all such presbyteries , and that which they say indeed , the Eldership of a congregation hath their Ministeriall power from the people . Well then , the Apostles when they received the keys they did represent the people : but what people ? not the people of a classicall presbytery , of a Province , of a Nation , of the whole redeemed Church , but of one single congregation ; how shall this be made out of the Text , or out of one Word of God , I see not . 2. Christ ascending on high , and giving some to be Apostles , and some Prophets , and some Evangelists , and some Pastors and Teachers , 12. For the perfecting of the Saints , ( not of Ephesus , far lesse of one single Congregation onely ) for the worke of the Ministery ( in generall ) for the edifying of the Body of Christ ( not a congregationall body onely ) 12. Till we all meet in the unity of the Faith , and of the knowledge of the Sonne of God , unto a perfit man , unto the measure of the stature of the fulnesse of Christ . Consider I pray you , that Christs intention in giving a Ministery is not for a congregation of forty , or sixty , or a hundred , as if hee intended to impawn all power in that Congregationall body ; but hee intended the edifying of his body Catholick , and the comming of all to the unity of the Faith . A Congregation of sixty cannot be all Saints , and this power is clearely given to that body , which the Lord is to make a perfit man , according to the measure of the fulnesse of the stature of Christ , this is a mysticall man , and the Catholick body of Iesus Christ . Call it a Congregation and you wrest the Scripture , and vilifie the noble and large end for the which Christ hath given a ministery : as aske to what end , and to what first and principall subject hath the Lord given reason and a faculty of discoursing , is it to Peter , to Iohn , &c. as to the first subject , and for them as for their good ? no , no , it is for and to the race of mankind . The case is is just so here , 1 Cor. 12. 28. God hath placed some in the Church , first Apostles , secondarily Prophets , thirdly Teachers , &c. Is the meaning thus ? God hath placed in the body of a single Congregation Apostles ? Where do you read that ? I believe Apostles have the Catholick visible Church for their Parish ; and is it a Congregationall body , wherein God placed such variety of members , as Apostles , Prophets , Teachers , Workes of miracles , gifts of Healing , Helps , Governments , & c ? So Rom. 12. 5. So we being many are one body in Christ , and every one members of another . Hence hee reckoneth out divers offices in this body . Now this is not one Congregation onely , but that one Body of Christ whereof Christ is head , this is the Catholick Church .

2. What power ministeriall our Brethren affirme to bee given to a Congregation , they say it is given to them under the notion of a flock of redeemed ones , of the Spouse , and body of Christ , as they cite for this act , 20. 28. & Col. 1. 18. Eph. 1. 22 and under the notion of the City of God , the Kingdome , house and building of Christ , but so they come to our hand , for this reduplication , or notion of a flock of redeemed ones , of the body and spouse of Christ , of the City , Kingdome , House , Building , agree first to the Catholick Church as is clear , Col. 1. 8. Eph. 5. 25 26. 1 Tim. 3. 15. Eph. 2. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. and secondarily only to a Congregation as it is a part of this universall flock . 3. The whole Catholick Church visible is made one ministeriall body Cant. 6. 4. beautifull as Tirzah , comely as the City of Jerusalem , terrible as an army with banners . By reason of their order of discipline , and is there called an organicall body having v. 6 7 8. Eyes , Haire , Teeth Temples , Locks and haveing particular Churchs under her , three score Queens , fourescore concubines , and virgins without number . Yet is it sayd , v. 9. My Dove , my undesiled is but one , she is the only one of her Mother . Ainsworth who here may be more then a witnesse , sayth this Ainsworth an . in Cant. 6. one Church is the daughter of Jerusalem who is above and the mother of us ●ll . C●ton a witnesse not inferior saith on this place : Cotton in Cant. 6. The true catholick Church of Christ is the Mother of all reformed Daughters , and that argument that our Brethren useth to prove a particular Church to be visible , because of externall communion ( not in one House , for that is accidentall to visibility , one congregation may meet in three caves of the Earth , in time of persecution , and yet remaine one congregation ) holdeth good in this catholick church made up of so many organs , as a congregation is formed . 1. Begetting by the Ministery of the word , daughter-Churches to God , as they say a congregation doth , nor is it enough to say Ierusalem is not one by externall government and order of Discipline , because they cannot meet together to exercise Discipline , but shee is one invisibly , because shee hath one Faith , one Lord , one Baptisme , one Spirit , one Hope of glory . For the Text sayth , they have one and the same Organs , Teeth , Eyes , Haire , Temples , Locks ; they are one Ierusalem , and compact City , one Army terrible by the Sword of of discipline . 2. We do not say , to make them one visible church , that they must have one visible actuall government , in externall order : for when of a congregation of 60. their be 30 absent through sicknesse and the busines of a lawfull calling , they are one Church visible , though in one metting you cannot see them all with one cast of your Eye ; and when the church of Ierusalem exceeding in number ten thousand , did meet in part . from House to House , that is in sundry Houses ; yet continuing in the same doctrine of the Apostles , and in fellowship and in breaking of bread , and in prayer , Acts 2. 46. 32. our brethren will say , they are one church . And therefore the power of Discipline , and the exercise of the Word , Seales , and Discipline in parts , is sufficient to make one visible catholick Church . 4. To that Church hath Christ given , as to the first church , the ordinances and ministery , which he principally intendeth to perfit , to gather , and to bring to the unity of faith in a perfit body by these ordinances and that Ministery ; because the wisdome of Christ hath not given his Ministery , and Ordinances to the catholick Church , intending principally to save them , except he give them a power in that Ministery to the first subject , which being put forth in acts may compasse that end . But Jesus Christ principally intends , to perfit to gather , to bring to the unity of faith in a perfit body , by these ordinances and Ministery , the whole catholick visible church , and secondarily only this or this particular congregation . Ergo , Christ hath given to the whole catholick Church , as to the first Church , the ordinances and Ministery , and so in this Mioistery catholick , hee hath given the Keys to this catholick Church visible as to the first Church .

5. I prove it thus , when ever Chrst giveth gifts to a whole , he giveth it to the whole , by order of nature , before he give it to the parts of that whole , as is cleare by induction . He gives Christ a gift to the whole Church , by order of nature , first to the World , Joh. 3. 16. Then to this or this believer of the World . So he giveth redemption and grace by order of nature first to his Church in generall , Eph. 5. 25. Christ dieth first for his Church , not this or that single company , or particular person , first for His sheep , that is , the whole flock , Joh. 10. v. 11. then for this or this company , or this of this straying sheep ; He came to seeke and save , first the lost , Luk. 19. 10. then this or this lost man . He died first to gather together in one , not one man onely , yee not the nation of the Iewes onely , but to gather together in one , all the Children of God , which were scattered abroad , Ioh. 11. 25. and he is a propitiatiou by order of nature . First , for the sinnes of the whole World , 1 Ioh. 2. 1. and then secondarily , for our sinnes , so hath hee given the gifts of Apostles , Prophets , and Teachers , first to , and for Saints , in common and in generall , and not for this and that Saint , or for this company of Saints at Ephesus . Now that particular Congregations are parts of the great visible Church ; I prove , and first that they are parts visible of a Presbytery , or a circuit of Congregations , within the locall bounds of a Presbytery . I make good thus . Those who have one common necessary object of externall government in Church-affairs , those are a whole visible community gifted with power from Christ to rule in that common and necessary object of government , and this and this portion of this whole community must be parts of that whole . But those Congregations within the locall bounds of the circuit of a Presbytery have one common necessary object of externall government , in Church affaires ; Ergo , those Congregations in such a circuit must be parts of this whole . The major I take from our Brethren , who therefore make a particular Congreation to be one in respect of ordinary meeting , to partake of word , seales , and to transect matters of jurisdiction , amongst themselves , but this agreeth to many congregations within one circuit , for they meet occasionally one with another in hearing the word and receiving the seales ; and for the assumption I prove it thus , all those congregations have these particulars of externall government in Church affaires , which they cannot transact within their owne Congregations , but doe ex aequo belong to them all . As 1. That they doe not give offence one to another ; that one Church doe not hold the Doctrine of Balaam to the offence and scandall of other Churches . 2. That one Congregation make not Acts and Canons against the Word of God , and against the Acts of another Congregation agreeable to the Word of God . 3. That one Church admonish , rebuke , comfort , provoke another to love and to good works , in such and such poynts ; now though a Congregation make acts and constitutions for governing this , or that member of the community ; yet they doe not , nor cannot make acts that oblige the community and the Church as the Church ; the Church as the Church being a part is to be regulated by the whole , and if there be things that ex aequo concerne all , and doe not concerne one particular Church more then another , one particular Congregation cannot governe in these . And by the like reason particular Churches and classicall Presbyteries , and Provinciall and Nationall Churches , are parts of the whole Catholick visible Church .

6. Because Christ hath not given the power of Ministery and Ordinances , and Jurisdiction to the single Congregation as to the first subject upon the ground that our Brethren speake , to wit , because the single Congregation is that Spouse to which Christ is referred as an Husband , and that body to which hee carrieth the relation of an head , communicating life to all the members , Eph. 1. 22. Col. 1. 18. nor is it that adequat number of ransomed persons , of sheepe , of lost ones , of fellow-citizens , of spirituall stones , &c. To the which Christ doth carry that adequat and compleat relation of a Saviour , of a good Shepheard , of a Seeker of lost ones , of a King and Governour , of the chiefe c●●ner-stone . Therefore that visible Church for whose salvation Christ hath given the Ministeriall power , must be the larger visible Church , just as the God of Nature hath given to the whole race of sheep , a power to seeke their own food , and because of their simplicity , a power to be ordered and led by the shepheard , and secondarily this power is given to this or this flock feeding on Mount Caermel , or elsewhere : so hath the God of Grace given a power to the whole visible Catholick flock to submit themselves , in the Lord , to other guides , and he hath given to the whole company of Shepheards as to the first subject the power of the Keys , and secondarily the power is given to this or this visible Church , and company of Pastors .

7. When any scandalous person is delivered to Satan , he is cast out of the whole Catholick Church ; Ergo , he was before his ejection a member of the whole catholick Church , for hecannot be cast out , who was never within . And when he is excommunicated , his sins bound , as in Heaven , so on Earth , that is , not only in that Tract of ground , where a handfull of a little Congregation independent ( as they say ) of 10 or 20 or an 100 doth ordinarily feed , but in all the visible World where God hath a Church . and all both within the little Congregation where hee is , and without , are to repute him as an Heathen and a Publican . It is true some of our Brethren say , he is excommunicated onely out of that Congregation whereof hee is a member antecedentèr , because Christ hath given the power of excommunication onely 1 Cor. 5. 4. To the congregated Church , when they are met together to deliver to Satan , and they must do it , in collegio , in consessu , coram tota Ecclesia , before and in presence of the Church congregationall , which is to give their consent and hath a certaine power of interest in the busines , but he is cast out and excommunicated to all other Churches onely consequentèr , by consequent , and by vertue of the communion of Churches : I answer , the plaine contrary ; hee is antecedentèr and formally delivered to Satan , by the power of the catholick visible Church which is put forth in exercises , and in act before that Church whereof he is a neerest member . Even as the left hand doth cut off a finger of the right hand , which otherwayes should infect the whole body . Now it is not the left hand onely that cutteth off the contagious and infectious finger , but the whole man , deliberate reason and the will consenteth it should be done for the preservation of the whole man ; the left hand is a meere instrument , and the losse of the finger is the losse of the whole body , and the finger is cut off the right hand not antedentèr , and onely off the right hand by that power intrinsecall onely in the right hand , but intrinsecall in the whole body ; it is true the contagion should creepe through , and infect the right hand , and right arme first , and therefore incision is made upon the right hand . So if the Eldership of a Congregation deliver to Satan , it is not done by that power that is intrinseally onely in that Congregation , but by the power intrinsecall in the whole universall Church , who shall keepe communion with him that Eldership cuts him off as the instrument , or hand of the Church catholick , and the incision ( as it were ) is performed there in that meeting ( I will not say of the whole Congregation , that is to be proved ) because the contagion shall come first upon these with whom the delinquent is to keepe the nearest fellowship , and that Excommunication be performed in a meeting I grant , and the place , 1 Cor. 5. 4. saith so much , and a meeting of the Church . But that that is a meeting of the congregation ▪ with favour of the learned , cannot be proved cogently ; though I thinke excommunication when it is actually performed , it should be done before the Congregation , but that is for the edification and nearest and most immediate practice of that Congregation , for the contagion is nearest to them , but the reason why the presence of the Congregation whereof the Delinquent is a member is requisit , is not because this Congregation hath the sole intrinsecall power in her selfe ; and because shee onely doth formally and antecedentèr Excommunicate , and the rest of the Churches consequenter , and by vertue of a communion : for the sister Churches are to debarre this excomunicate person from their communion with Christ in the Seales of the Covenant , and that by an intrinsecall authoritative , and Church power , where as if he were not excommunicated , they should have received him to a Communion with them in the Seales , and that by an intrinsecall authoritative and Church power , for one man cannot receive another to the Seales of the Covenant with him ; because no one man hath a Church authority . If therefore the Church as the Church is consociated by an intrinsecall Church-power should have admitted him , if he had not been excommunicated , it is evident that hee was a member not onely of the Congregation out of which he is excommunicated , but also of the whole consociated congregations . 2 , The man sins are bound on Earth antecedentèr , to all the consociated Churches . He is now equally uncapable of Church-fellowship in all the consociated Churches , as in that Congregation whereof he is a member . All without and within that Congregation are to hold him for no visible Saint ; not to eate or drinke with him , he is now to all the visible Churches , in regard of visible communion , no member of that body whereof Jesus Christ is head , no part of that City , of that building whereof Christ is the Lord and chief corner-stone . And he is to the sister Churches in their authoritative & Church-estimation ( to speake so ) and in relation to their power of Jurisdiction , in the very same case a member of Satan , that hee is in relation to the authoritative power of Jurisdiction of that Congregation whereof he was a neerest member ; just as the finger cut off is alike separated from the body , yea the whole body as from the hand ; and it is a wonder to me that Christ giveth an intrinsecall power to a Congregation of twenty believers to cut off a member , for the preservation of that little company of the Lords Flock , and that he hath denied that intrinserall power to the whole , which is no lesse in danger to be infected , seeing Christ principally intendeth in the giving of a Ministery to the whole Church , especially the gathering of the whole body ; To the full and perfit stature of the age of Christ , in the unity of Faith , Eph. 4. 11. yet he intendeth the salvation & preservation of the whole from infection more then the salvation of a part of this whole Body . That is , as it you would say , the God of Nature hath given an intrinsecall power to five hundred in a City to set guides over themselves and to rule themselves by wholesome Lawes , but hee hath denied that power to the whole City consisting of ten thousand ; and he hath given to the right hand an intrinsecall power to consent that a finger in the right hand infected with a Gangrene , be cut off , but he hath denied this intrinsecall power to the whole man . I beseech you doth the God of Nature in conferring this power to the right Arme , intend the preservation of the right Arme onely , and its wellbeing , and not rather the preservation of the whole body ? so doth not Christ intend that the whole consociated Churches shall be preserved from infection , and not that particular Congregation onely ? Then if Christs meanes be congruously fitted for his owne end , he must have given an intrinsecall power to many consociated Churches to cast out a contagious lumpe ; other wayes the consociated Churches are to exercise the punishment of avoyding the Excommunicated person as an Heathen , which floweth from a power which is no wayes in them ; what conscience is here ? 2. What if the Congregation cast the man out , clave errante , and undeservedly ? shall they , consequentèr , as sister Churches , in a brutish fraternity execute a sentence of a power intrinserall in another Church , and not any of them , or their guides have any power to discerne , whether the censure be justly or unjustly infflicted ? This our Brethren condemne in their owne Congregation : for because the reputing the ejected man an Heathen , is a matter of practise , that concerneth the conscience of every one of the Congregation , therefore must all the Congregation give their powers and consent ; yea do more then consent ( say some ) even exercise jurisdiction , or a power not different from it . Some things are objected against this way .

Ob. 1. The power of the Keys cannot be given to the catholick representative Church , or catholick Presbytery , as to the first subject to be an ordinary and constant meane of edification ; The exercise whereof , in an ordinary and constant way , is unpossible ; But the exercise of this Ministeriall power given to the catholick visible Presbytery , as to the first subject , in an ordinary and constant way , is unpossible ; Ergo , such a power is not given to the Catholick representative Church , as to the first subject , to be an ordinary and constant meane of edification . The proposition is cleare , it is uncongruous to the Wisdome of Jesus Christ that hee should give that to bee a meane , which possibly cannot attaine the end . The Assumption is as evident ; for the Catholick visible Presbytery cannot meete in an ordinary and constant way .

Answ. 1. By distinguishing the Major proposition ; That power of the Keyes remote cannot be given to the catholick presbytery as to the first subject , the exercise whereof in an ordinary and constant way is impossile physically and ex natura rei . True , but now the Assumption is false ; That neerer power cannot be given as a meane of edification , the exercise whereof is morally and through the corruption of mens nature physically impossible . That is false , and denyed , and in either sense the conclusion cannot be true . 2. I grant the whole , and yet nothing is concluded against us . For the power of the Keyes is not given to the catholick Presbytery as to the first subject , to be a meane of edification in an ordinary and constant way ; but onely in an extraordinay and occasionall way , in those things which concerne the power of jurisdiction belonging to the whole Catholick Church . By ( extraordinary ) here I meane not that which is against a particular Law of God , and cannot bee done without a Divine dispensation of providence , but by ( extraordinary ) I meane that which is rarò contingens , and doth not oft fall out ; as almost it never falleth out that the universall Church hath neede to excommunicate a nationall Church , for all and every one of a nationall Church doe never fall away from the Faith . Yet a remote power for Excommunication , is in the Catholique visible Church .

2. It is objected , if the visible catholick Church be the first and principall subject of all Church-power , then a Presbyteriall Church cannot Excommunicate , but by a power derived from the catholick visible presbytery , and so the presbytery should ●● excommunicate , but by consulting with the Catholique visible Church , but this latter were impossible and absurd ; Ergo , so must the antecedent be . The counexion is proved thus ; for as ●● things have beate in so farre as they partake of the Fire ; because heate is originally in the Fire , as in the first subject , so all Churches exercising Excommunication must partake of the power of censures , that is , first and principally in the originall subject , to wit , in the catholick visible Church . And it would seeme that none can use or put forthin acts , the power of the catholique Church visible , without the conscience of the catholique Church visible .

Answ. This occasioneth me to speake somwhat of the power of the presbyteriall and catholick Church . Hence I say . 1. With submission to the learned .

First , It is an hard way of arguing , to reason from the power to the severall exercises and diverse acts of the power . Our Brethren hold that all power of the Keys , and all power Ministeriall of preaching , administrating the Seales , is originally in caetu sidelium , in a Church of Believers : but they cannot say that therefore the acts of Preaching , administrating of the Sacraments and all acts of jurisdiction can be exercised by the Believers , because they are the first subject .

Secondly , the farther that the members , or Churches either Congregationall , Presbyteriall , or Nationall are removed in locall distance , one from another ; the lesse is the visible and externall communion of rebuking , comforting , and admonishing one another ; yet the power and obligation of these duties are not removed . So though the Nationall Churches be locally distant one from another , yet their power of exercising duties , and so their power of Jurisdiction , in an O●cumenicke Councell , is not from thence concluded to be null . Yea , Nationall duties upon occasion are still obligatory● and communion of men of sundry Nations is cleare to mee , Esai . 2. 3. many Nations shall flow unto the Mountaine of the Lords House , Zach. 8. 23. Ten men shall take hold out of all Languages of the Nations , they even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew , saying , we will goe with you , for wee have heard that God is with you . I do not say , these Nations doe meete all in one Synod , but the places doe well prove the power lawfull of performing duties , whereas the exercise of them in one place is not hic & nunc , in ordinary providence , possible . And so this consequence must be weake ; the whole catholick visible Churches in their principall guides cannot ordinarily , and constantly meet , hic & nunc , for the exercise of their power ; Ergo , they have no such power . For if the power be exercised in parts , which through occurrences of Providence , and the corruption of mens nature cannot be exercised in whole , at once ; yet it s not hence evinced to be a power not given of Christ for e●ification ; for by our Brethrens grant three thousand are added to the Congregationall Church of Jerusalem , Acts 2. and to this Church of three thousand , and a hundred and twenty , Christ hath given the ordinary power of the Keyes as to the first subject , though through occurences of providence , and the corruption of mans nature , some of these , suppose a thousand , through sicknesse , pest , danger of persecution , and sinfull separating from the assembly of Saints , could not hic & nunc meet in one house , to exercise joyntly all the acts of that power which our Brethren say is given to them by Christ ; they cannot say therefore Christ never gave to this whole Church consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty , any such power .

Thirdly , there is a great difference betwixt the power given ad esse simplictèr , to the being of a Church , and the power given ad benè esse tantùm , onely to the well-being . 2. Great difference also there is betwixt ordinary power to be exercised constantly , and ordinarily , because of neerer consociation of the Churches , in those things that concerne that Church in particular : suppose a presbyteriall or Congregationall Church , and a power to be exercised , but more rarely , not ordinarily , because of the lesse communion visible , and great locall distance of Churches , as it falleth out in the whole visible Church . Now from this .

First , The ordinary power of Jurisdiction because of neerest vicinity , and contiguity of members is given by Jesus Christ to one Congregation in an Isle . 1. Because that Church is a Church properly so called , though it be not a perfit and complete Church . I say it is a Church properly so called , Because . 1. It is a little City , and a little Kingdome of Jesus Christ having within it selfe power of the Word and Sacraments : and that is a Church and hath the essence of a Church to which agree the essentiall notes of a visible Church . Now preaching of the Word and Administration of the Sacraments are essentiall notes of a visible Church . But I say it is not a compleate and perfit Church in the latitude of visibility , ( for Churches , are lesse or more visible , according as they have lesse or more visible communion ) for visible communion constituteth a visible Church . Now a Congregation in a remote Island hath a lesse communion visible with other visible Churches , then conscciated visible Churches have . 2. It is not compleate and perfit in its operations , because in case of doubts of conscience touching government and practice , and dogmaticall poynts , it wants the joynt authority , and power of Jurisdiction needfull for the well-being of a Church , which it should have , if it were consociated with many other Congregations : so as wee say an hand with five fingers is a compleate hand , but it is not a compleat organicall body , but a part of the organicall body of a man ; so is a Congregation a Church wanting nothing of the being and essence of a Church ; yet is it incompleate , because it is a part or member of a Presbyteriall Church , and not being consociated wanteth that which belongeth to the well being of a compleat visible Church . For visibility of a Church must have a latitude , because it is an accident or adjunct of an organicall politick body , which is totum integrale .

Secondly , the ordinary power of ordinary Jurisdiction in a more perfit way , because of ordinary and perfiter consociation , is given to the Presbyteriall Church , as to the proper subject in the constant and ordinary exercise of Discipline , because contignity being the foundation of visible externall government , the Presbyteriell Church of Ierusalem , Ephesus Corinth , Antioch , and Rome , is a perfit compleat consocia●d body . To which the power of ordination , exauthoration , or deprivation of Pastors , of excommunication in a constant and ordinary way doth belong . For this is a principle of Church-policy . Every politick body of Christ hath power of Church government within it selfe . But a Presbyteriall church is such . 2. This is a received maxime also . Quod tangit omnes . ab omnibus , suo more , tractari debet . What concerneth all , should be agitated by all , according to their degrees of concernment , but excom nunication of a person , in a consociated Church , concerneth all the consociated Churches in a Presbytery ; all are scandalized , all may be , and are in danger to be leavened with the infectious lumpe . And here it is to be observed , that as preaching of the Word is an essentiall note of the visible Church , and agreeing to the visible Church , as necessary ad esse simpliciter , to the very being of a visible Church . For if the word as Preached and some way promulgated be not in such a society , we cannot call it a visible Church ; so Discipline is a note of the visible Church , and necessary ad bene esse , and it cannot be a Ministeriall Church in a good condition exercising acts of edification , if the wall of Discipline be broken downe : and meeting in one place for Word and Sacraments is but accidentall for a Ministeriall Church . If the Word be preached , and the Sacraments administrated in sundry Congregations , though not in a Presbyteriall Church all convened in all its members in one place , yet hath the Presbyteriall Church the essentiall note of a visible Church . Because there is a difference betwixt carrying the colours in an Army tali modo , as all the Army at once may see the colours , and the carrying of the colours . Yet the colours are a note visible of such an Army : so there is a difference betwixt preaching the Word , simpliciter , and preaching the Word , tali modo ; in such a way in one materiall house onely . And therefore it is necessary that government which concerneth many Churches consociated , be in its exercise hic & nunc , larger then preaching of the Word in its exercise , hic & nunc : which cannot be done , but to a multitude which conveneth 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to the same materiall place . And we see an act of government , Acts 15. by confession of our Brethren , belonging to divers consociated Churches and performed by them , and yet these cannot ordinarily meete to one and the same place in all their members for hearing of the Word .

Thirdly , an extraordinary , and remote power of Jurisdiction which is but rarely and in extraordinary cases to be put forth in acts , is given to the Catholick visible Presbytery of the whole Catholick visible Church . Because the Oommunion externall and visible is lesse , where the locall distance of visible Churches is more : and therefore because oecumenicall councells , being necessary for the Catholick visible Church , neque ad esse simpliciter , neque ad b●●è esse , sed ad melius seu optimum esse , neither in respect of the Churches being , nor in respect of the Churches well-being , ●u● onely in respect of her best and most spirituall well-being , these councells are seldome to be had in an ordinary providence . For the Cresse of Iesus Christ is rather a marke of the catholick visible Church , then Bellarmine his prospe●ous condition , that he will have to be one of his fifteene notes of the Church : and since the Church cannot have her wishes , the want of generall councells is the Catholick Churches Crosse , not her sin ; we doe not say that God is deficient in meanes necessary to his Church , or to some of his owne Children ; because the Woman hath wings given her of God to stie to the Wildernesse to hide her selfe from the Dragon , Rev. 12. 14. and so cannot enjoy Gods ordinary presence , in his Sanctuary . Nor doe wee say that God hath denied a power to his Church in the Wildernesse , to enjoy them in a visible Sanctuary , I meane a morall power , and jus , a right and interest in that presence , because he interrupteth the Churches physicall power , for a while , in the injoying of these comforts of a visible Church-Communion , in the Sanctuary .

Fourthly , hence it doth not follow , that because the catholick representative visible Church is the first subject of the power of the Keys , that the power of Excommunication is derived from the visible Church to a Presbyteriall Church , or that a Presbyteriall Church cannot excommunicate without consulting with , or fetching authority from the Catholick visible Church : Because the Catholick visible Church is a great integrall body of Iesus Christ , and he is the head of this body ; because though the power of seeing by order of nature be first in the whole man , and then in the Eye , yet the power of seeing in the Eye is not derived from the rest of the body , from Hands , Leggs , Shoulders , Armes , to the Eye . The light is first in the whole Body of the Sun , as the first and prime subject of light ; yet supposing now the received opinion of Astronomers , that the body of the Sun doth exceede the quantity of the Earth an hundred sixty and seven times , it doth not follow that this or that part of the Sun hath no light intrinsecall in it ; but that which is derived from the whole body of the Sun ; for then this or this part of the Sun should have borrowed light derived to it from another : so the Soule doth at one and the same instant , animate , and quicken the whole organized Body as its first matter and subject , but it doth not follow that the Hand hath life derived to it from the whole body : so because the power of the Keyes is also intrinsecall in the Presbytery , as in an O●cumenicall councell : it doth not follow , that the power that is intrinsecall in the presbytery is by derivation , or borrowed and at the second hand , from the Catholick presbytery of the whole World ; farre lesse that the Presbytery cannot Excommunicate , except it consult with the catholick visible Church . The power of the Keys , by order of nature , is onely in the catholick representative Church as in the first subject , but in order of time this power is communicated from the head Christ to all the integrall parts of this great Body according to the capacity of every part , so as it is intrinsecall in the particular Eldership of a single Congregation in these poynts of Discipline , that concerne a Congregation as a Congregation , and it is intrinsecall in the classicall Presbytery as it is such , and it is intrinsecall in the provinciall , and Nationall Synod , in poynts belonging to them as such .

3. They object ; if a single Congregation have not power of Excommunication , and of entire and compleat government within it selfe , because it is but a part of a Presbyteriall Church , and so an incompleat Church : by that same reason a Presbyteriall Church shall be a compleate Church , and not have entire and compleat power of Government within it selfe ; because a presbyteriall Church is a part of a provinciall Church , and a provinciall Church shall be in the same case , because it is a part of a Nationall Church , and a Nationall Church , in that same case ; because it is a part of the catholick visible Church , and there shall bee no perfit visible Church on Earth , which hath full and entire power of jurisdiction , save onely the caholicke visible Church , which by no possibility can convene , before her Oecunenick and highest catholick Court , a Nationall Church , or the Church of great Brittaine , and upon the testimony of three witnesses deliver her to Satan , and upon supposall of Repentance receive her againe to the catholick power of that same Court ; into fellowship of Church-union with the great catholick body . For so because this catholick Church , for many centuries , yea possibly for a million of yeeres , cannot convene to exercise her authority in a Court ( and out of her Court shee hath none ) the repenting Nationall Church , shall remaine in Satans bands for ever , by a physicall and invincible necessity .

Answ. A single Congregation is a Church , but so as it is a part also and a member of a Presbyteriall Church , and because of neernesse of communion with consociated Churches under one Presbytery ; it can neither have compleat power of casting out one of its owne members , because that member hath so strict a visible Union of membership also with consociated Churches , nor can it exercise that intrinsecall power that it hath as a remote part of Christs Catholick body , but the case for ordinary and constant power of ordinary and constant Jurisdiction is not so in a Presbyteriall , in a provinciall , in a Nationall , in the Catholick visible Body . And therefore it followeth not that they are not compleat Bodies , and entire Churches for all ordinarie and constant Jurisdiction ; and the reason is cleare , because Synods or Synodicall Churches above a Presbytery to me are not ordinary ; not constant Courts , but extraordinary , and prore nata occasionall , having their rise from some occurrence of providence , as is most cleare , by Scripture . The Church of Ephesus being a Presbyteriall Church , did constantly exercise Discipline , and try false Prophets , and those which called themselves Iewes , but were lievs , Revel. 2. 2. Whereas that famous Councell at Ierusalem was not an ordinary and constant Court , but extraordinary , that is , occasionall ( for so I take the Word , for expressions cause ) and had its rise , Acts 15. 1. from a meere occasion , because some came from Iudea and taught the Brethren , except yee be circumcised after the manner of Moses , you cannot be saved , And the subject of this Court was not the constant and ordinary affaires of Discipline , that belonged to the presbytery of Ierusalem , and Antioch . No , v. 6. the subject was only an incident controversy raised by false teachers , subverters of soules , v. 24. and therefore it is said , v. 6. The Apostles and Elders , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to consider of this matter ; therefore the presbyteriall Church hath both Word and Sacraments dispensed in it distributively through all the Churches , and for the power of Jurisdiction ordinary intensivè , and quoad essentiam Ecclesiae ministerialis , according to the entire essence of a ministeriall Church , it is as perfit and compleat in one single Congregation , as in a provinciall , as in a Nationall , yea as in the Catholick visible Body , whereof Christ is the Head ; onely a provinciall , nationall , and the Catholick Church visible , extensivè , according to the power of extension , is a larger and a superior Church , and though the presbyteriall Church be a part of the Catholick , it is so a part , as it is a perfit whole Church : as a man is a part of this great all , the World , yet so , as he is a perfit reasonable Creature , and so a whole man , and a part of the World : but a Congregation is so a part of the Presbytery , that it hath not a whole , entire , compleat intensive power over its owne members to excommunicate them , because its members are for contiguity and necessity of neere visible communion , parts that cannot avoyd dayly edifying or scandalizing of consociated Churches , and therefore the consociated churches trust have a power over the members of a Congregation . But our Brethren will say ; Contiguity of locall cohabitation doth not in be a visible Church , but only the voluntary agreement of Professors who doe , ex pacto , and by covenant tacit or expresse , make up a conseciation : for a Papist and a Protestant may cohabit in one house .

Answ. That is true , but contiguity is such a necessary foundation of externall visible Church fellowship in one presbytery , as without that contiguity , I see not how , jure Divino , there can be either a Congregationall Church , or any other Church : for , sure I am , Christ hath not ordained me to be a member of a Congregation in America , or of a presbyteriall Church in Geneva . And that such persons and no more be members of a Congregation , is not juris Divini , yet without a contiguity lesse or more they cannot be members of a Congregation , nor is this single Congregation a limbe of this presbyteriall Church , jure Divin● ; onely this in abstracto is jus Divinum , that there be a Congregation of a convenient number , and a presbytery of such as may meete conveniently in their guides . But to returne , the Brethren do deny that God gave a power of Jurisdiction to the Catholick visible Court of the O●cumenick Church . And why ? because a generall councell cannot excommunicate , nor relax from Excommunication a nationall Church , But I answer , 1. It is by accident , and not through want of innate and intrinsecall power , that the Court of a Catholick councell cannot in an ordinary and constant way , exercise the power that Christ hath given to her , as the presbyteriall church doth ; and the exigence of providence maketh it so , because it falleth out by the blessing of God , that Zion must say , as it is , Esai . 49. 20. The place is too streight for me , give place to me that I may dwell . And because she inlargeth the place of her Tent , and stretcheth forth the curtains of her habitation , and lengthneth her cords , and breaketh forth on the right hand , and on the left , and her seed inheriteth the Gentiles , Esai . 54. 2 3. and because from the rising of the Sun , to the going d●●ne thereof , his Name is great amongst the Gentiles , and in every place incense is offered to him , Mal. 1. 11. yet have generall councells condemned Hereticks , as Nestorians , Macedonians , Eutyches and others ; and I see nothing to prove that a generall councell hath no power to excommunicate a Nationall Church . If the Lord should be pleased to give the Christian Churches a generall councell this day , they might lawfully , in a juridicall way , declare the faction of Romish pretended catholicks , to be mysticall Babylon , a cage of uncleane Birds , which is excommunication in the essence and substance of the Act ; nor is there need of a legall and juridicall citation of nationall Churches , or a citation of witnesses to prove Romish Heresies , and perfidious and detestable obstinacy : for their writings , and deeds , are so notorious , that the senses of men may as infallibly prove the fact , as we know there is such a City in the world as Rome , and C●n●tantinople ; as for the instance that a catholick councell cannot ordinarily be had , to relax a repenting nationall Church : I answer , the same inconvenience will follow , if we suppose an ordinary case , the Church congregationall ( as our Brethren suppose ) of Ierusalem , Acts. 2. consisting of three thousand and a hundred and twenty , having excommunicated Ananias , Saphira , and others , who yet by the grace of God , should truely repent ; in the meane time , the Sword of the Roman Emperor intervening scattereth this Church , that they cannot convene in a spirituall Court , to relax them ( and out of Court they have no authority of Jurisdiction ) here were an invincible necessity of their remaining in Satansbonds , in foro externo ecclesiae . But what then ? This is to limit God , as Papists do in binding and tying salvation of Infants to the outward signe of externall baptisme ; as if God , in soro caeli , in his own Court could not absolve penitent sinners , because the Church will not , which is more ordinary , through mens corruption , or cannot absolve , through the necessity of exigence of divine providence : and the more catholick that crosses be , as war● , the universall and catholick cruelty , and treachery of the church of M●lignants against the true catholick Church of Christ , the more easily are the Juridicall and Court-operations , actions and proceedings of the catholick universall Church impedited . And therefore this of our Saviours , tell the Church , is necessarily to be applyed to all Churches and Courts of Christ , even to a catholick councell , though Christ gave instances in an offended Brother , who is to tell the Church , But I am sure , ( tell the church ) is not to be restricted to a vocal & personall complaining of one brother against another , in the face of a single Congregation . For if the offence be committed before the Sun at noon-day in the seeing and hearing of the church , either congregationall , or presbyteriall , as some may , and one do by word and writ openly blaspheme God : in this case Christs affirmative command , tell the church , doth not in conscience oblige one man to come and deale with the delinquent in private , and then ( if he repent not ) before witnesses , & then to tell the church , so as one sinneth if he tell not the church ; for here Gods providence disposing of the notoriousnesse and publicknes of the scandall doth tell the church ; and yet , I hope , our Brethren could not deny , but this Text doth w●●●● that such a publick offender who scandalizeth many Churches should be excommunicated by this place , Mat. 18. from which I gather the weakenes of what is said for the independency of churches from , Mat. 18.

Ob. 1. Here we cannot understand the Church universall . 1. Because he would not say where two or three are gathered in my Name , I will be in the midst of them , for two or three cannot represent all the Churches comprehended under the catholick visible Body of Jesus Christ .

Ans. This is an argument from the lesse to the more . If I be present ( would our Saviour say ) where two or three , though they be but two or three : I will far rather be present in the assemblies of the Church . Nor can the words stand according to the letter strictly , according to our Brethrens mind , that two should be a Church ; for there should be Pastors and Elders , and Christian witnesses , two at least , and the accused Brother here . 2. two or three , and brother and brother are not to be taken as singular men only , but as two or thee men , or Churches , who as they Abulensis ●u loc. etiam si non si●t 〈◊〉 . may be offended . 1 Cor. 10 32. so may they give scandall and offence ; so may three , foure , of consociated Congregations give the offence , and that publickly ; what ? hath Christ provided no remedy against scandals in his whole Kingdome , but only for scandals fallen out in the single persons of a small Congregation consisting of ten , 20 100. or 200. only when these little congregations offend sister Congregations , they are left to the immediate judgement of God ? This is wonderfull .

Ob. 2. The christian magistrate as a nursing father is to punish those who offend , and hath power to command Churches to confesse offences done to sister Churches , and command Church censures , as excommunication , to be used , and Christs power to be put forth in practise , according to the will of Jesus Christ .

Answ. Yet doth it follow that the Apostolick Churches , & the succeeding Churches to them under the ten bloudy persecutions , when Magistrates were enemies to Christ , and his church , that the Churches wanted spirituall meanes to gaine fallen and scandalous churches . 2. Christ hath provided an Ecclesiasticall power to remove scandalls betwixt church and church ; for the Magistrates power is civill and put forth by the Sword , and by carnall weapons . Christs 〈◊〉 in this , Mat. 18. 19. s to remove scandalls , and gaine soales v. 15 for heare thee , thou o●st gained thy Brothe . The Sword of the Magistrate is not ordained to gaine so●les to Repentance . That 〈◊〉 who careth for the part of a visible church , doth he not far rather care in a spirituall way , for the whole ? 3. What can the Magistrate command here ? the Eldership of a Congregation turn●● Here●icks and scandalous to sister Churches and infecteth then . To● Magistrate commadeth that Church censures be used 〈◊〉 them as you say , who should use them ? not a sister Church 〈◊〉 is offended . She hath no power ; not the Eldership themselves offending . Christ never ordained that a church should excommunicate her selfe ; not the people ; Who gave them power ? And the major part of them turneth scandalous . Also Christ nere hath left n●re ne●y . but let them grow till Harvest , so say A●abaptists .

Ob. 3. Christ here speaketh for a present and constant removing of scand 〈◊〉 Brother and Brother of one congregation . A cathalick 〈◊〉 of the whole visible Church is far off , ●nd cannot be 〈◊〉 .

Answ. That he speaketh of a present and constant remedy only , and of no remedy against the scandall of whole Churches , is de●ed . He speaketh of all remedies to gaine any offenders , persons or churches .

Ob. 4. Then should an universall councell of the whole world be absolutely necessary , if in some cases we must tell the whole catholickchurch

Ans. Neither doth that follow generall councels are neither necessary to the being , nor to the well-being , but only to the best being of the catholick church , and if the catholick church enjoyed its best-being to which it hath jus , and due right , that is , a perfit Reformation in doctrine and discipline , then should generall councell be necessary for the keeping of this best being . And this rule of Discipline given by Christ supposeth a particular Congregation right constituted ( say our Brethren ) else this rule cannot be necessarily kept . So say we , that it may necessarily be kept in the catholick church , it supposeth the catholick church to be reformed ; but Christs church must sayle with a second wind , when she cannot have a first .

Ob. 5. Refusing communion with sister Churches in case of scand●ll is as effectuall a way for edification , as authoritative excommunication of congregations by Presbyteries .

Answ. Excommunication of Congregations is a possible , not an ordinary supposition ; but our grounds proceed , when the members of one sister-church offendeth another , if there be no presbyteriall power superi●r to both , that may take order with them , then hath not Christ , in the ordinary supposition of ill administration of the Eldership of a particular Congregation , provided an ecclesiastick way to remove scandalls out of His Kingdome . 2. non-communion is no more then I may do to a brother who offendeth me . 2. it is not so efficacious as a binding and loosing ratified in Heaven . 3. It hath not that speciall promise of Christs church presence walking in the midst of the Golden candle-sticks . 4. It is a secret condemning of the Wisdom of Christ in the institution of excommunication , that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord , 1 Cor. 5. 4. that some may learne not to blaspheme , 1 Tim. 1. 20. as if excommunication which is a publick authoritative meane were superfluous , if a private and brotherly non-communion be sufficient , and as efficacious a meane of edification , as Christs mean .

Ob. 6. Either must you complaine to a presbyteriall , provinciall , and nationall Church , before you complaine to that congregation of which the ' Delinquent is a member , or after that you have complained to that congregation ; if the former be said , then you cannot tell the presbytery , or superior Courts , but in case of obstinacy ; for if you can gaine a Brother , or a Church in a private way , you are not to bring him to a more publickeshame , that is contrary to Christs order , v. 15. If he heare thee , thou hast gained thy brother . And if you tell it the Presbytery and the superior Courts , after you have told it to the Church , whereof he is a member , then you make foure steps , in your reclaiming your brother , where Christ hath made but three .

Ans. Christs order according to the number of steps are three , when the fault is private , scandalls of many Congregations cannot be private , and in publick scandalls we cannot go but to that church which the offence doth immediatly concerne ; and if you make foure steps or five according to your grounds , I see no transgression ; if 1. You admonish the offender . 2. Before two . 3. Before the half of the Elders . 4. Before all the Elders , and. 5. If you be willing that the Elders bring it to the hearing of the Congregation the number of three precisely are not of positive Divine institution , they are only set downe by Christ to shew we are to labour to gaine our brother in private , before we publish his shame to the Church ; and if he commit the offence before two , I think you need not tell him your selfe alone , but before two , and yet the offence is private , if three only be privy to it ; seeing it is not yet come to the Church . 3. I much doubt if no faults be punishable by excommunication , but only obstinacy : I thinke the 〈◊〉 of incest , parricide and the like deserveth excommunication , though no contumacy be supervenient to such crimes .

Ob. 7. The Church spoken of , Mat. 18. is all one with the House of God , and the House of Prayer , where two or three agree to pray for onething . v. 19. and the place where worshiping is , and word and Sa●raments , that society in which stewards give a portion of the trea●● of life to every child of the House , Mat. 24. 45 , 1 Cor. 4. 1. 2. 〈◊〉 publick Rebukes are tendered to these who sin publickly , before all , that others may feare , 1 Tim. 5. 20. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : this must be in the Churches hearing and before the Congregation meet for the Word and Sacraments , for these ordinances of God worke for the edifying both of the party reproved and before all the Congregation , which shall heare and feare ; and they worke upon the Heart , as the Word of God doth : now a presbyteriall Church convened in some Elders of divers Congregations , for Church censures and exercise of jurisdiction , is not such a House of God , where are the Word , Sacraments and publick rebukes in the hearing of the Congregation ; for the Congregations of all the presbytery being 20. or 30. cannot meet in one Church .

Answ. That onely a Congregation and not the catholick Church is the House of God , I judge , the Word of God cannot teach ; as Esai . 56. 5. To them will I give a name within my House . What a name ? to be a member of a single Congregation ? No , but of a whole visible Church , opposed to the condition of Eu●uches and strangers , v. 4. that were not of the people of God . Cant. 1. 17

Ainsworth an . in can . 3.

Cotton expo . on Cant. 3. 4.

Alst. in loc. quod ●rat veluti conclave Ecclesi● Catholicae .

The beames of our House are cedars , this is the catholick Church and Spouse of Christ , Cant. 3 4. I would not let Him goe , till I brought Him to my Mothers House , not a Congregation , but Ierusalem , ( saith Ainsworth ) the Mother of us all , Cotton , the Catholick Church ; Alstedius , Ierusalem , Heb. 3. 2. as Moses was faithfull in all his House . Not a single congregation . 2. This Church here is formally a Ministeriall Church meeting to bind and loose , and excommunicate . Nor is there need to expound it of an House of praying congregationally , but rather 2. 19. of ligatory and authoritative prayers of the Presbytery . 3. Nor is rebuking in a Congregation for the edifying of the hearers , any thing but the execution of the judiciall sentence of a Presbyteriall Church , which we grant may be done in the congregation , whereof the Delinquent is a member , and yet the Church here shall not signifie a congregation convened for the Word and S●crame●ts , except you say , all the people must necessarily be present , yea and authoritative actors to bind and loose , as this Church is expresly called , v. 18. for if the place speake , 1 Tim. 5. 20. of concionall rebuking ; then it proveth nothing , that is done by Timothy as a Pastor , virtute potest at is ordinis , and not by the Presbytery , as an act of jurisdiction which is done by the Church , not by one man , if it be meant of juridicall rebuking that is done in a Court , where all the congregation are not present ; or if it be done before the congregation in Name of the Presbytery , what is done before the Church 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 before many is not done by those many , as if they were the Church , which our Saviour biddeth us tell , and sure nothing i● here against us .

Ob. 8. The Word Church is never used in the New Testament , for the Presbytery ; and if it signifie a Representative Church ; the meaning of this , the Angell of the Church of Pergamus might be the Angell of the Church of Pergamus ; for the Representative Church is the Eldership of that Church .

Answ. This being the first time that Christ spake of the Church ( which the Hebrewes or Iewes who knew his language , behoved to understand ) hee could not meane any thing but a representative Church , not the common multitude ; and though it were taken other wayes in all Scriptures beside , here it must have this meaning ; because he speakth of a court . If he heart not the Church &c , 2 Of a company who bindeth and looseth on Earth . 3. Whose sentence is ●atified in Heaven . 4. Binding and loosing are words of highest royall judiciall authority in Scripture , Psal. 105. 20. The King sent and loosed him . 21. He made him Lord over his House , v. 22. to bind his Princes at his pleasure , Psal. 148. 8. To bind their Kings with chaines , and their Nobles with fetters of Iron . v. 9. To execute upon them the judgement written , Mat. 22. 13. Take him and bind him ; Pauls being in bands , is to be under the Judges power , Acts 12 6. Peter was bound with two chaines ; So the Captaine of the Guard , J●r . 40. 4. and now be hold I loose thee this day from thy chaines . 2. The representative Church is not called the Elders of the representative Church , nor the Angell of the representative Church , but of the collective Church : and therefore there is no Angell of a Church , of a Church here .

Ob. 9. From the Church here spoken of , their is no appeale , because the sentence is ratified in Heaven . 2. It inflicteth the highest punishment , the censure of excommunication , and a higher judicature can doe no more . 3. Their is no reason to appeale to a higher judicature , because the inferior may erre , because all above a Congregation are Courts which may erre : for Presbyteries , Provinciall , Nationall , the universall councell of the Catholique Church may erre . So Mr. Mather .

Answ. This is no reason why wee may not appeale from a M. Mather and Mr. Tom●on in Ans. to Mr. He●le . c. 2. p. 13. 14. Congregation , because the sentence is ratified in Heaven , because the sentence of an inferior Judge proceeding rightly is ratified in Heaven ; yet we may appeale from him : to appeale is but upon feares of ill administration to desert a lower Court , and go to a higher Court , so when we feare a counsell and advice given by a sister Church to be not according to the Word of God , which yet is according to the Word of God , upon the supposall of that feare wee decline that counsell , and take another . Neither are we to appeale , de jure , from a just sentence in a presbytery . Illud possumus quod jure possumus . What the inferior Sanedrim of Israel did justly , was ratified in Heaven : yet by Gods Law there might be an appeale from it to the highest Sanedrim . 2. Nor is this a good reason that we may not appeale from a Judicature which may inflict the highest censure ; for inferior Judicatures in Israel had power of life and death , yet might man appeale from them . 3. The cause of appeales is not because inferiour Judicature● may erre , for so wee might appeale from all judicatures , even from a general councell , for it may erre . But the true cause is . 1. Because rariùs errant , they do not so frequently erre . 2. They are not so inclined and disposed to erre , for many Eyes see more then one , and many Eyes doe more seldome miscarry in not taking up the right object then one . 3. Because we conceive more equality and lesse partiality in higher Courts .

Ob. 10. You grant that a single Congregation in an Island hath power intrinsecall of Excommunication within it selfe ; Ergo , th● inconvenient which you put on independent Congregations , shall follow in the case of a remote congregation , Christ hath not then provided sufficiently for that Church in that case .

Answ. It followeth onely ; Ergo , Christ hath not provided so sufficiently for that Church as for others in a consociation , which is nothing against us . For woe to him that is alone , and two are better then one .

Ob. 11. If the Church here be a representative Church , the● it hath power from those whom they represent , but they represent the people , and so the power is first in the people , and the people must be the first visible Church , not the presbytery , not a generall councell . I prove the major , because the power the representer hath that must be first in the represented .

Answ. A representer standeth for another either objectively or subjectively . What ever representeth another objectively , that is , doth such a businesse for another , or in remejus , for his behalfe and good , though he some way represent that other , yet hath he not his power from that which he representeth ; as the Eye objectively in seeing , and the Eare in hearing representeth the body , for the Eye seeth for the whole body , the Eare heareth for the whole body . But the eye hath not its visi●e , or seeing faculty from the body , nor the Eare the hearing faculty from the body . Now the Presbytery doth represent the people onely objectively , that is , for the good and salvation of the people , and so the Elders have not all their power of ruling from the people , but from Iesus Christ . That which representeth another subjectively hath indeed its power from that which it representeth , as he who carrieth the person and roome of a King as an Ambassador , doth fetch his power from the King , and that power is more principally in the King . But now the Assumption is false , because the Eldership doth not represent the people , in their power of Jurisdiction , subjectively , as standing in the place of the people , but as the Ambassadors of Christ , and as stewards they have both the Keyes from Christ , not from the people , and doe actually use the Keyes , in his Name and authority , not in the peoples name and authority . Hence is easily answered that Delegatus seu deputatus non potest facere delegatum ; one delegate cannot transfer his power to another delegate , that would bring a progresse infinite in government ; for one deligate standing in the roome of others , sibjectively cannot transfer his whole power to another , its true ; he cannot transfer his power in part and according to some singular acts , it is false : for Acts 15. 25. It is said by the councell , It seemed good unto us with one accord , to send chosen men to you , with Paul and Silar . Paul and Silas and these chosen men , suppose six or ten are in this Embassage , are but the deputies and Messengers of the councell , and yet they doe agree to make Paul their deputy , and mouth to speake for them all , seeing order requireth that six at once should not speake , in this case Paul speaking the minde of all the rest , in this singular act , he is a deputy of Deputies , and he representeth the whole six , who were Messengers of the Church sent with the Epistle , and these six were Deputies and Messengers of the councell , but as these six Messengers sent by the councell could not lay their whole power on another to carry the Epistle to the Church of Antioch , and bestow their labours elsewhere , nor could one of these six deligates , being chosen as deligate to speake for the rest , put that power of speaking the mind of the whole six off himselfe to another ; in which sense , one deligate cannot make another , one Messenger cannot send another ; so the Presbyteriall or classicall Court convened as the deligates of the whole Congregations under them , or rather deligates for them , then of them , decerning that one of a Congregation should be excommunicated , may deligate one in that Congregation to pronounce the sentence , and this one pronouncing the sentence as the deligate , and Messenger of the Church is a deligate & a deputy of deligates , and deputies , in one particular act ; and this our Brethren in their own Church-sentences pronounced by one Elder , must also say .

Object . 12. That neerest Church to whom we delate the offence of one single offender , is a single Congregation , else we must over-leap this Church , and tell the Presbytery , contrary to Christs direction ; but if he heare not that very Church to whom we tell the businesse , he is excommunicated by that neerest Church , as the words beare ; Ergo , that nearest Church being single congregations , may excommunicate , and so it is the first Church , and the Presbyterial Church is not the first Church .

Ans. That neerest Church to whom we delate the offence of the delinquent ; first , in the case of wilfull obstinacy ; secondly , in the case of consociation of Churches ( whom the obstinacy concerneth ) is not a congregationall Church , having power of Jurisdiction entirely and compleatly , to whom we must tell the offence , which is the subject of excommuncation . The whole ministeriall Church is that particular Church , together with the Presbytery ; and my reason is , there is a Church , Acts 2. consisting of one and thirty hundred and twenty , all called one Church . Now it is said of this Church that they continued , vers. 42. stedfastly in the Apostles doctrine and fellowship , and in breaking of bread , and prayer ; but where did they meet ? vers. 46. not onely in the Temple , but dayly from house to house . This whole number hath had v. 42. one Church-fellowship , one Word , one Supper of the Lord ; but in one meeting at once ? No , but they met from house to house , that is , in any private house , as the phrase is here , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and Acts 20. 20. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Now it is cleare there were Congregations and Churches , when Word and Sacraments were in private houses at Jerusalem , and from house to house in Ephesus ; but I hope these were but parts of the Church at Ierusalem and Ephesus , and that they could not meet all in one house . If one therefore complaine of a scandalous person to the Church of Ephesus convened in a house , possibly in an upper Chamber , or elsewhere , this is a meeting that continueth in prayer and breaking of bread , and so hath power of Church-censures to admonish and rebuke , which things belong to that single Congregation or Church in a private house ; but it hath not power to censure those that offend the consociated Congregations that meet also 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in houses , that is , to excommunicate ; and therefore he must complaine to the Elders of Ephesus , ●o● we are not to thinke that the false Jewes who were censured by the Apostles of Ephesus , Rev●● . 2. 2. did onely infest houses , or one Congregation meet in a house , or that one House-Church , or House-Congregation of Ephesus , did try and censure those that called themselves Iewes , Revel. 2 , 2 but Christ giveth the praise of this to the whole Church of Ephesus , who had the power of censures . But it may be said , Ascandalous person may infect two Congregations of two neighbouring Presbyteries , he dwelling neere the borders of both : Ergo , if he be to be excommunicated , not by a Congregation onely , but by the Presbytery , because ●e may leaven many consociated Churches ; this man is not to be excommunicated , except you tell two Presbyteriall Churches , and so a whole Province ; and if he dwell in the borders of two Nations , betwixt England & Scotland , he may leaven two parts of two Nationall Churches ; and if the matter concerneth both the Nationall Churches , a higher Church then a Presbytery , to wit a Church made up of two Presbyteries , yea , of parts of two Presbyteries of two Nations , must by divine institution be that Church compleat and entire to which we must complaine , and which hath the power of excommunication . Answ. It is certaine , as the locall limits of a Congregation and the number is not properly of divine institution , onely a convenient number there must be to make up a Congregation ; and suppose a man do dwell in the borders of two Congregations , where he is equally distant from the place of meeting of these two Congregations , it is not of divine institution whether he be a member of the one or the other ; yet where his parents did willingly associate themselves to such a Congregation , or he himselfe did associate himselfe , and where he received Baptisme , he hath now a relation to that Church as a member thereof , and that Pastor is his Pastor , not any other , as the Elders of the Church of Ephesus ( suppose it were one single Congregation ) and the Angell of Ephesus is not the Angell of Thyatira ; the Angell of Pergamus is not to be called the Angell of Sard●s . So i● the matter in a Presbytery , or two Presbyteries of two distinct Nations ( I meane now a classicall Presbytery ) therefore these doe make Presbyteries , 1. A convenient number of Churches may be governed by one Colledge , or society of Elders . 2. Having ordinary conversing one with another . 3. Voluntarily upon these two grounds combining themselves in one society ; and upon these three the supervenient institution of Christ is grounded . And therefore though it be true , that one dwelling in the borders of two Congregations , of two classicall Presbyteries of two Nations , may equally infect other , and so ex natura rei , and in reality of truth he may leaven both ; yet the God of order having made him a combined member now by institution of one Presbyteriall Church , not of the other , he is to be excommunicated by the one , not by the other : For though locall distinction of Congregations and Presbyteries bee not of divine institution ; yet supposing consideration be had to , first , a competent number which may be edified ; secondly , to ordinary conversing ; thirdly , to voluntary combination , either formall , as at the first molding of Congregations and Presbyteries , or tacit and vertuall combination , as in after tracts of time . Gods institution maketh a relation of a particular membership of this man , so to this Congregation or Presbyterie ; as that now upon their foresaid suppositions , though he may leaven the neighbouring Presbyteries or Congregations , no lesse then those whereof he is a member , yet may he be censured by those and none others now , in respect of Christs ordinance applied to this Presbyteriall Church in this place , and in this Nation , and not in this .

Object . 13. If the Congregation may admonish and rebuke , then may they excommunicate , for you may not distinguish where the Law of God distinguisheth not : for there is no reason why this or this exercise of jurisdiction should be given them , and not the exercise of all .

Answ. The Law clearly differenceth , Matth. 18. I may rebuke and convince my brother with the consent of three witnesses , which is some degree of Church-censure , especially if a Pastor rebuke before three , yet may not a Pastor excommunicate ; the Church doth that . 2. We acknowledge that a Congregation may exercise all jurisdiction in re propria ; but excommunication , where Churches are consociated , is not a thing that is proper to a Congregation , but concerneth many .

Obj. 14. We doe not thinke that the Church , Math. 18. 16. is the community its alone , nor the Elders there alone ; but the Elders in presence of the community . For even Act. 15. when the Apostles and Elders did give out decrees , they did it before the Church of Ierusalem , and in their presence , V. 22. Then pleased it the Apostles , Elders , and whole Church , to send chosen men to Antioch . For shew us a warrant in the Word , where the Elders there alone did exercise jurisdiction , the people not being convened , and where such a company of Elders there alone is called a Church . The Iudges in Israel judged in the gates before the people ; the Elders judged in , or , before the Church , as the eye seeth united to the head , not separated from it .

Answ. Nor doe we exclude these from hearing the Elders exercise jurisdiction , if the matter concerne them ; but we aske if the whole people of Israel were obliged by vertue of Divine Institution to be present in the gates of the City when the Judges did sit there , and judge , as our brethren therein say ; by a Divine Institution the people are to be present , and to consent ; yea and have an honour above consenting , ( say they ) so as , if the people be not there to have their share of excommunication in their way , then is Christs order violated , because the Church cannot be said to excommunicate and bind and loose on Earth ; whereas the Elders onely , without the people , do only bind and loose , and excommunicate ; and the Elders ( say they ) without the people are not the Church , nor can be called the Church , and so the acts of the Elders , judging , and separated from the people are null , because not acts of the Church ; seeing the alone Elders are not the Church ; & by this reason the Judges could not judge in Israel , except all Israel had been present to consent , for all Israel are bidden to execute judgement in the morning , both the Rulers and people . 2. All the thousands in Ierusalem which made up many Congregations , Isa. 1. 10. 16 , 17 were not , nor could they , and the whole Congreations of A●tioch , Syria , and Silicia , who were all concerned in conscience no lesse then Ierusalem , be present , and that by obligation of a Divine Institution : and therefore that Church , and that whole Church , Act. 15. 22. can be no other then the whole representative Church . And so we say , both here and Act. 15. the Church representative exerciseth jurisdiction without the people ; if people were present , it was by vertue of no Divine Institution : so as if they had not beene present the decrees could not have been called the decrees of the Church : and certainely the comparison of the eye which seeth not but as united to the body , if it be strictly urged , may well prove that the Elders , if the people be not present , even all and every one whom it concerneth , c●● no more exercise jurisdiction , or decerne that a scandalous person can be excommunicated , then an eye can see when it is plucked out of the head .

Object . 15. Divines bring an argument from Math. 18. by ●●●logy and proportion from particular congregations , to prove Na●i●nall and generall Synods of the whole Christian world . Ergo , they suppose that a particular Church is the measure and patterne , and first Church which hath power of excommunication ,

Answ. Parker , and some few enclining to our brethrens mind doe so , but Divines understand by a Church a Presbyteriall Church , which they make the measure and patterne of Assemblies .

Object . 16 Here is a particular Church , because here is an offended brother who is a member thereof . This particular Church hath Elders , this particular Church is a whole Church , 1 Cor. 14. if the whole Church come together . Jam. 5. Send for the Elders of the Church . It cannot be , that the sick● person is to send for the Elders of a Presbyteriall Church that are so farre removed from the sicke man .

Answ. An hand with five fingers is a whole hand , but not a whole body ; a Congregation is a whole Church in its owne kind , whole for those things that concerne it selfe , but not whole and compleat for all jurisdiction . If Iames should bid , send for all the Elders , this consequence should have some colour .

Object . 17. A Presbyteriall Church can be an offending Church , but this , Math. 18. is for an offending brother , if thy brother sinne against thee , &c.

Answ. Christ giveth an instance onely in an offending brother , but the doctrine is for the curing of an offending Church also , for all persons to be gained , Thou hast gained thy brother . We are to gaine Churches even as we are not to offend Churches , 1 Cor. 10. 32.

Object . 18 ▪ There are no Church-censures meant here , Christs scope is to resolve a case of conscience , how farre we are to goe on with an offending brother before we behave our selves to him as to an heather . ● , It is said , if thy brother sinne against thee , Ergo , it is a private offence , not a publique Church-scandall , that deserveth excommunication .

Answ. Christs purpose is to shew how we may gaine to repentance an offending brother , Thou hast gained thy brother . And he will have us use both publique and private meanes to gaine him . 2. It is such a sinne as must be told to the Church , when obstinacy to the Church is added , and therefore at length it is a publique scandall and so deserveth excommunication .

Ob. 2. Reprove him , that is , convince him , but is it not reproving to be brought before the Church ? must I reprove every one who offendeth me , even the King ? it is a mans glory to passe by an offence ; and Salomon for biddeth us to over-heare our servant cursing us .

Answ. God hath made every man his brothers keeper , and we are not to suffer sin in our brother , but in any case to rebuke him , Lev. 19 , 17. the King is not every mans brother whom he is to use familiarly , as the brother meant of here ; though Kings should be rebuked by their Nobles , and by Pastors . 2. We are to passe over offences , that is , to forgive those that sin against us , and not to be too curious to know who reproacheth us , as Salomons meaning is to be taken , and to be willing to forgive , and yet to labour to gaine our brother by rebukes ; one act of love fighteth not with another .

Ob. 3. Tell the Church , is not meant of a Christian Church , but he speaketh of a thing present , but there was no Christian Church as yet .

Answ. It followeth not , it is a rule especially for time to come , though Christ speake after this manner , as if it were a thing present .

Ob. 4. It is not much that the word , Church , signifieth onely in this place a company of godly men , witnesses of the mans offence ; for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 signifieth onely once , Joh. 3. the wind . 2. Christ spake in the Syriak and Gnedah , Psal. 22. Gnedah a company , or many Buls have comp●ss●d m● , 1 San. 19. a company of Prophets , Gnedah . The meaning is , if he be not convinced by the testimony of two , rebuke him before many .

Answ. It is not like , that seeing in the Chapter preceding he s●ake of the Church , as of a company to whom the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven were given , and that here he speaking of a Church which hath authoritative power to bind and loose , that Christ hath any such ●nsolent meaning of the word Church , as onely to note many Christians . 2. The Syriak is not the Originall , but the Greeke .

Ob. 5. The witnesses sp●ken of here are not witnesses of the offences , but of the reproofe , and therefore there is nothing here of a judiciall proc●s .

Answ. Yea , but these witnesses are witnesses both of the reproote , and of that obstinacy , for the which the mans sinnes are bound in Heaven .

Ob. 6. Let him be to thee as an Heathen . He saith not , let him be to the C●urt as an Heathen , and therefore here is no shadow of any Court .

Ans. It is an ordinary hebraisme , when the second person is put for the third , especially in Laws , as , Thou shalt not send him away empty . Also , Thine eye shall not spare him . Also , Then shalt out away evill out of Israel . And therefore here is a reall Court , it the context be considered . Christ speaketh so , Let him be to thee as an Heathen ; in opposition to that which he was called to be , for his obstinacy ; to wit , a brother , if thy brother offend . And how weake is this ? Let him be to thee as an Heathen . Ergo , He should not be to the Church as an Heathen . The contrary consequence is most necessary , if he be to thee as an Heathen , because he is now convinced of obstinacy before two brethren , and before all the Church . Ergo , these two brethren and the whole Church are to count him as an Heathen , for the offended brother hath gone along all the way in the unanimous judgement , and a consort of mind , with both the witnesses and the Church ; Ergo , this obstinate man is the same to the Church that he is to the offended brother , that is , he is to both as an Heathen and a Publican , and both are to abstaine from eating or brotherly conve si●g with him , as the Jewes would not familiarly converse with the heathen , and as Paul commandeth 1 Cor. 5. 10 , 11. that with an excommunicated man , we are not to eate .

Ob. 7. Whatsoever you bind on earth , is in good sence , that he who offendeth any little one that believeth , his sinne is bound in Heaven , as the friends of Job c. 42. were not accepted of God , till they made their peace first with Iob , yet Iob had no power of the Keyes over his friends , and an offering is not accepted , while first the offerer be reconciled to his broth●r , and so his sinnes are bound in Heaven , and yet one brother hath not a jurisdiction over another .

Answ. Binding and loosing in this , Chap. 18. must be the same with binding and loosing , Chap. 16. 19. but expresly their binding and loosing is by the Church . power of the Keyes , and is all one with that authoritative power of remitting and retaining sins 〈◊〉 . 20. 21 , 22 23. and in Scripture the keyes , and binding , and loosing , are never ascribed but to Stewards , Officers , Princes , and Judges , who have power of jurisdiction , as I have proved already ; and therefore that which is spoken of Jobs friends , and of the offerer not reconciled to his brother , Come not up to the point , for Iobs friends doe not binde on earth , and the offended brother is a more private man destitute of the keyes , and of all power of j●risdiction .

It is first objected by our reverend brethren , The extent of the power of jurisdiction in the Elders of a classicall Presbytery must be proved by Gods Word , which cannot be .

For if many classicall Elders have power over many Congregations , possibly twenty or thirty Churches , then they beare the relation of Elders to these thirty Congregations , and they must all be Elders of these Churches , as the Scripture saith , the Elders of Ephesus , the Angel of the Church of Pergamus , the Angel of the Church of Thyatira ; now this cannot be : for then , First , Deacons must be Deacons of many Congregations , and Deacons might meet in one Colledge to dispose of the Treasury of these thirty , and yet these thirty Churches should not be consulted with , nor could they all convene in one to give their consent and judgement concerning their Treasury . Now though Deacons be inferiour to Pastors , yet are they no l●sse Officers in their owne sphere , having power , then the Pastors ; and Paul writing to the Church of Philippi , writeth to the Deacons as to the Bishops , insi●uating that Deacons are Deacons in relation to that Church , no lesse then Pastors .

Answ. I deny the Proposition , to wit , If many Elders be one Presbytery ruling many Congregations , then doe they beare the relation of Elders to these many Congregations , as proper Pastors to every Congregation , of , or within that Presbyteriall Church : nor doe they beare that relation of watchmen and proper Pastors to every one of these Congregations , that a Pastor of a particular Congregation beareth to his particular flock , that is to be ●oved . It is true they are called the Elders of the presbyteriall Church of Ephesus , the Colledge of the Angells of the Church of Pergamus ; but this is a generall and different relation from that which each Pastor , doth carry to his owne flock in those respects . 1. The Presbytery are Elders to the classicall Church 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ●● ; not in things proper to each Congregation but in things common to all , or in that which is the proper object of government , to wit , those things which rather concerne the consociation , and combination of those thirty Churches then the thirty consociated , and combined Churches in particular . 2. The Presbytery doth rather take care of the reg●lation of the acts of governing in all these Churches , then the governed Churches : for they are to heed to the Pastors ordained , and to lay h●nds suddenly on no man , to commit the Word to faithfull m●n , to see that Pastors preach sound Doctrine , and exercise Discipline according to the rule , but they doe not feede as speciall Pastors the particular flocks , but every one is to feede his owne flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath set him , Acts 20 , 28. 3 The Elders of the classicall presbytery are Elders to all these Churches , as the Elders themselves are , in Collegio Presbyteriali , in the Colledge of Presbyters and properly as they are in the Court , but not separatim , and oct of Court , so this and this Archippus is not an Elder , or Pastor to all these Congregations , so as he hath to answer to God and to watch for the Soules of them all , but hee hath a charge of them onely in Collegio ; and if he doe any thing , as a classicall Elder , as if hee lay hands on a Pastor ordained to bee the Pastor of such a Congregation , hee doth it as the hand and instrument and deligate of the Presbytery , or if hee pronounce the sentence of excommunication in a Congregation , hee is virtualitèr in Collegio , when he doth that act , in respect he doth it as the deligate of the Presbytery . And this our Brethren may see in their owne particular Eldership of their independent flock , if an Elder occasionally rebuke any of the flock , never convened before the Church , he doth not in that exercise an act of Church Jurisdiction , because he is not now in a Court , and when hee is not in the Court hee cannot excommun●cate , Yet ●iting in Court hee doth , in Collegio , with the rest of the Eldership exercise Church Jurisdiction . And separatim , and not joyned in the Court they cannot exercise Church Jurisdiction . 2. The presbytery hath a Church-Relation to all these 30. Churches not taken distributively , but collectively as all those are united in one Church classicall under one externall and visible government , even as the Elders of an independent Church are not Elders of their single Congregation , being separated from their Court , and extra coll●gium Presbyteriale , in the notion of the relation of a Church-Jurisdiction , for they are Elders by reason of Church Jurisdiction only in their Court . 3. Classicall Elders in the Court have power of Jurisdiction in relation to this presbyteriall , or classiciall Church , but they have not properly an ordinary power of order to preach to them all and every one , and to administrate the Sacraments to them . The Elders of a particular Congregation , have power of order and power of Jurisdiction without the Court , but they have not power of Church jurisdiction , but in the Court ; for there is a difference betwixt a power of jurisdiction which Elders have as Watchmen , and a power of Church-Jurisdiction which Elders have not but in foro Ecclesiae , in the Court of Church-Jurisdiction . So the great Sanedrim beare rule over all the Tribes of Israel . But this Judge of the Tribe of Dan a member of the Sanedrim is not a Judge of the Tribe of Benjamin , or a Judge to a thousand of that Tribe , as the Captaine of that thousand . 2. I distinguish the proposition , if the Elders of the Presbytery be Elders of the Presbyteriall Church , then are they Elders in relation to the many Congregations in that Church , if they bee Elders in these common affaires which concerne government in generall , then are they Elders in feeding , by the word of knowledge , and in governing in all the particulars which concerne the government of each Congregation . That I deny , for their oversight in governing in things belonging to all the consociated Churches , doth not make them Elders of all those particular Congregations . 3. Deacons in some cases are also Deacons in relation to all the particular Churches in some reserved cases : if all the Deacons of Macedonia , Corinth and other Churches , should meete in one and take course for supplying the distressed Saines at Jerusalem , what inconvenient were in this ?

Ob. 2. If Presbyteriall Elders be Elders to mary Congregations in a generall Relation , what sort of Elders are they ? are they Elders ruling , or are they Elders teaching ? it is unpossible that they can be Elders teaching , to so many Congregations ; for teaching is a personall and incommunicable act , that m●n cannot commit to any others , they must performe it in their owne persons , a●● cannot commit it to others , if they be Ruling Elders onely , and not teaching Elders , this is against the Scripture ; for the exten : of teaching and the extent of ruling are commexsurable in the Word , and of alike extersion , Acts 20. 28. These same whoe are to feede the fl●ck at Eph●sue , are to governe and rul● , and they are to feede the whole fl●ck● , not a part of it ; so the Text sayth , Take heede to the whole fl●cke , then they are not to governe all in a presbytery , and to feede with teaching the Word , one particular Congregation onely ; so 1 Pe● . 5. 2. feed the flock of God which is amongst you , not with knowledge onely , but be addeth their duty of governing : Taking the oversight thereof , not by constraint , but willingly , &c. So H●b . 13. 7. Remember them that have the rule over you , who have spoken unto you the Word of God ; Ergo , these same who have the rule over the flock , and governe , du also speake the Word of the Lord and teach , v. 17. obey them that have the rule over you and submit to them , for they watch for your soules as these who must give accompt ; Ergo , these same who governe , doe also as Pastors watch for the flock , as those that are to give an accompt ; but the governing classicall Presbytery doe rule , but it is unpossible that they can give an accompt for all the Congregations of a classicall Presbytery , for they cannot watch over them all , except every one of these must have many Eyes : Nor can they be both ruling and teaching Officers , for then they should have two Offices , if one man be both a Physitian and a Chyrurgion to two severall companies , he must have two Offices in relation to two charges which he hath to those two companies , if he practise physick to the one company , and chyrurgery to the other , this is against the order that Paul Col. 2. rejoyced to behold . Therefore the classicall Elders cannot be Rulers having the oversight of the whole c●●ssicall Church , and yet every one of them must be a 〈◊〉 and teaching pastor only to the single Congregation over which 〈◊〉 .

Answ. As grand-Fathers and fathers doe beare a relation to these same Children divers wayes , both are fathers and may tutor and provide for the children , but both are not begetting ●athers , so also doe the classicall Elders and the Elders of particular Congregations , beare divers relations to the flocks . the question then is what sort of Elders are the Presbyteriall Elders to the Presbyteriall Church ? I distinguish Church , I distinguish Elders . They are Elders classicall only to the classicall Church collectively taken , and they have an authoritative care over this Church . But they are proper Elders to the classicall Church taken distributively , that is , this man is an Elder to this part , or member of the Presbytery , to wit , to this Congregation . And another man to this Congregation as the Elders ; in the Court and Aslembly at Jerusalem , Acts 15. they are Elders in relation to the whole Churches of Antioch , Syria , and Silicia , and the Gentiles collectively taken in those dogmaticall poynts , with the confession of our Brethren , and these same Elders were in speciall manner Elders to the Congregations of Antioch , Syria and Silicia , and other Churches taken distributively ; so also the Elders of many consociated , and Neighbouring Churches are speciall watchmen over their own fl●cks , by teaching and ruling , according to our Brethrens grounds , and also they have a Brotherly care over all the consociated Church , to Councell , ●dmonrth , Comfort ; seeing every man is his Brothers keeper , by a Divine Law , and the care is like as is it were authoritative , onely , by our Brethrens way , it wanteth the relation of authority ; vet doth it not follow that Elders this way have two Offices . but onely that they performe two acts of one and the same Office ; also a Pastor of an independent flocke , who writcth ● B●●ke for the instruction of Sister-Churches as hee preache●● those same Sermons that are in the printed B●oke to his owne people and flocke , hath two Relations , one to his owne flocke whom hee preacheth unto . as a Pastor , another as an instructer of other Churches by his writings , yet for that hee hath not two Offices , as one who is a ' Physitian and a Chyrurgion to two sundry companies . if any say , hee writteth not Bookes as a Pastor , by vertue of his Office , but as a gifted man by power of fraternity , let mee deny the truth of the distinction , for this is to begge what is in question ; For to teach the Churches by writing should proceede from the authoritative power of a Pastor , as a Pastor ; and by that same officiall power that hee teacheth his owne flocke vivâ voce , by vocall preaching , as a Doctor hee teacheth other Churches by writing . But it was asked , whether are the classicall Elders ruling Elders , or Teaching Elders to the classicall Church ?

Answ. They are both , and they are neither , in divers considerations , they bee teaching Elders in all the Congregations , distributively taken , they are Rulers in all collectively taken , they are Teachers 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in some reserved acts , resolving synodically some cases of conscience and dogmaticall poynts upon occasion , but they be not the constant Teachers to watch for the Soules of all . 3. The places , Acts 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Heb. 137. 17. prove that those that rule in common many Churches should be Teachers of these same Churches distributively , and all the Eldership at Ephesus should rule the whole Churches amongst them . And there should no Pastor be a sole Ruler and not a Teacher , as the Prelate is ; nor is there a Pastor who is a sole Teacher , and it is very true hee who is a ruling Pastor is also a Teaching Pastor , but not to that same flock alwayes . Neither is this true , that because power of jurisdiction is founded upon power of order , therefore teaching should be every way commensurable with ruling ; for 1. The Eldership convened in Court , and onely formalitèr in foro Ecclesiae , in this Court hath Church-power of Jurisdiction , in a Congregation , and in this Court they governe , but the Eldership in this Court neither doth preach , nor can preach . 2. The power of ruling is in the ruling Elder , but not the power of teaching , and the power of teaching publickly is in the un●fficed Prophet , as our Brethren teach , and yet in him there is no power of ruling .

Ob. 3. It is strange that to excommunicate agreeth to the ruleing Elder in a classicall Presbytery , which he may doe in many Congregations , and so he may performe his principall acts over thirty or forty Congregations ; and yet the Pastor may not performe his principall act of teaching in many Congregations , by vertue of his office , but onely in one congregation , by this frame of a classicall Church .

Answ. The ruling Elder doth onely in some common cases with the presbytery performe his speciall acts , but all the ordinary acts of the spirituall Jurisdiction the ruling Elder performeth in that Congregation whereof he is an Elder , nor is this an inconvenient ; but preaching which is given to unofficed men by our Brethren , should not be called the principall part of a Pastors charge .

Ob. 4. It is unreasonable that a Prelate or a Pope should rule me , and not teach me , and we condemned this in Prelates that they would onely rule , and not teach : But the classicall presbytery doth fall in that same fault , for they governe the whole classicall Church , but they doe not teach the whole classicall Church ; It is dreadfull for a man to watch for the soules of one single Congregation , as being under necessity to give an accempt ; Ergo , far more dreadfull it is to watch also for a whole tract of thirty or forty Churches , the Apostle will have Him who watcheth for one flock to entangle himselfe with no other imployments . How then shall hee take the burden of thirty , or forty Flockes ?

Answ. It is unreasonable that Prelate and Pope should rule me , and so many hundred Churches 1. as the sole and proper Pastors , and all under them be but suffragans and deputed Pastors , doing by borrowed authority from Pope and Prelate . 2. That their sole Office should be to command feeders as Pastors of pastors , and not to feede with knowledge the flocke , that is most true ; but the classicall presbyters are neither principall nor proper pastors of the whole classicall Churches collectively , nor are two or three pastors under them as deputies . 3. Nor is their Office to rule onely , not to feede with knowledge also . 2. The pastors of independent flocks are obliged by brotherly association , to be Vine-Keepers , Governours , fellow-Counsellers to forty sister - Churches , for they acknowledge Ass●●tion of 〈…〉 ● . 19. that Churches cannot subsist in good government without the helpe of Synods ; Now if wee distinguish onerousn●sse , care , and labour of B●therly watching over one another , and oner●u●n●sse , care , and labour , by way of Jurisdiction , the former is as great in foro Dei , in the Court of Conscience as the latter , and so ou● Brethren make Governing without Teaching , as well as wee doe ; They in a Brotherly way , wee in a way of Jurisdiction . I prove that their way is as dreadfull and labo●ous in the ●oynt of conscience , and in a way of giving accompt to God , as our way . For 1. A divine command that wee be our Brethrens keepers , and we watch over one another commandeth onerousnesse , and care in Brotherly governing to them , as to us . 2. Wee make the ground and foundation of governing a Classicall Church that band of Love and Union of the members of one Body of Christ , and this band of Lovely and Brotherly consociation of many Congregations commandeth , and ti●th us to doe no more in Governing and i● Helping , and promoting the edification of sister - Churches , then if wee had no further warrant to prom●te edification , then the alone relation of Brotherly consociation , for the onely and very reason why the Wisdome of our Law-giver Christ hath put a speciall Commandement on consociated Churches to make one Presbytery , and to governe one Classicall Church , in these common poynts that concerne the whole Classicall Church , in the poynt of sound Doctrine and lawfull and Ministeriall Jurisdiction , is the necessity that Members of one Body have of Broth●rly Helpe , Light , Direction , Comfort one of another . Which poynt I desire carefully to bee observed : for wee see no ground to make the powers of a Congregation , of a presbytery , of a Province . of a Nationall Church , powers formally and essentially different , they differ onely in more or lesse extension , as the adjunct or genuine property of one and the same great visible Body , which is one integrall part ; That same . 1. Covenant of God . 2. That same Lord 3. That same Spirit . 4. That same Faith and Baptisme . 5. That same power of the Keyes in Nature and Essence belongeth to all ; onely the power must bee more or lesse , as the Body is more or lesse , as there is more of that vis loc●motiva , the power of moving in the Hand then i● one Finger , and in the whole Arme then in the Hand onely , and in the whole body then in the Hand . And I cleare it in this , a man is a gifted Preacher in a Congregation in an Island , there is none other gifted of GOD to Preach the Gospell but hee onely . I would thinke , as a Brother hee were under as great an Obligation of care , and laborious onerousnesse of conscience to bestow his Talent for the gaining of Soules by preaching , though hee were not called to bee their Pastor , and that by vertue of his Brotherly relation to the people , as if hee were called to bee their Pastor . I desire to know what the naked relation of Authority , or Jurisdiction addeth to his care and onerousnesse in poynt of labouring by preaching the Gospell . Indeed now being called , his care is Pastorall and more authoritative . But if according to the measure of the Talent , every one is to proportion his paines to gaine more Talents to his Lord , and if the relation of a Pastor adde no degrees of gifts to His Talent , as wee may suppose , I thinke his onerousnesse in labouring was as great before hee was a Pastor as after : but I speake not this , to say that in a constituted Church there is no calling required other then giftes . Nor doe I speake this to say , that a calling is not a new motive why a man should imploy his gifts for the honour of the Giver ; But only to shew that CHRIST hath united powers of Jurisdiction in Congregations , in Presbyteries , in Churches of Provinces and Nations ; that so , not onely gifts might conduce to helpe and promove edification , but also united powers of Jurisdiction which are also gifts of God , and though some may say that a calling to an Office layeth on M●n a more speciall Obligation , to make accompt for Soules , then gifts onely ( which in some sense , I could also yeeld ) yet seeing wee thinke the relation of the Eldership to a whole Classicall Church is not founded upon an Office different from the Offices of Pastors and Elders which they have , and are clothed with in relation to their particular Congregations , but onely authoritative acts of the same Office , and that for the common promoving of edification in the whole Classicall Church , grounded in the depth of his Wisdome who hath seven Eyes , upon a Brotherly Consociation , in which they must either edifie one another , and occasionally partake of these same holy things , or then scandaliz● and leaven one another , with their publique transgressions ; wee cannot see how presbyteriall Elders are more to give accompt for the Soules of the whole Classicall Church in Scriptures sense , Hebrewes 13. 17. then consociated pastors and Elders of consociated Churches are to give an accompt to GOD for sister Churches , over which they are to watch , and whose Soules they are to keepe , and so farre as they are Brethren must make a reckoning to GOD for them . And how can the presbytery be more said to intangle themselves , in governing the Classicall Church in some things , with things not proper to their calling , seeing consociated Churches , in a Brotherly way , doe medle with those same things , though not in a way of Jurisdiction ? For helping the Classicall Church by way of Fraternity is not unproper to a Christian calling of Brethren , and the joyning of power of Jurisdiction ; I meane of power lesser to another power greater , to helpe the Classicall Church , upon the same ground of Fraternity , cannot bee unproper to the calling of a Colledge of presbyters .

Objecti . 5. The power of Presbyteries taketh away the power of a Congregation , therefore it cannot bee lawfull . The antecedent is thus confirmed . 1. Because if the Presbytery ordain● one to bee Excommunicated , whom the Elders of a Congregation in conscience thinke ought not to bee Excommunicated , the man , Jure Divino , must be Excommunicated , and the power of the Congregation , which Christ hath given to them is nul . And the exercise thereof impeded by a greater power . 2. the voyces of two Elders of a Congregation , which are now sitting in the greater and classicall Presbytery , are swallowed up by the greater number of Elders , of thirty or forty Congregations met in one great presbytery ; Ergo , the power of the Congregation is not helped by the presbytery , but close taken away .

Answ. The Argument doth presuppose that which is against GODS Law , to wit . 1. That there is a contradiction of Voyces , betwixt the Elders of a Cong egation , and of the greater presbytery ; which should not bee , for Brethren even of Galathia , which contained many Congregations , as our Brethren confesse , should all minde and speake , and agree in one thing that belongeth to Church Discipline , as is cleare , Gala. 1. 8. Gala. 5. 10 v. 15. Gala. 6. 1. 2. 2. The Argument supposeth that the greater presbytery is wrong in their voycing , that such a man should be excommunicated , and the two Elders of the Congregationall Church is right , and hath the best part in judging that the same man ought not to be Excommunicated . But Christ hath given no power to any Church to erre , and that power which in this case the presbytery exerciseth is not of Christ ; and de jure , the power of the greater presbytery in this case ought to bee swallowed up of the two Voyces of the Elders of the Congregation . But suppose that the Elders of one Congregation , and the whole meeting all agree in the truth of GOD , as they all doe Acts 15. will you say that Peter , Paul , and Iames their power is null , and taken from them ; and their three voyces are swallowed up in that great convention , because to their power and voyces are added , in this dogmaticall determination ( which you grant even now to many consociated Churches ) the power and voyces of the rest of the Apostles and Elders ; yea and as some say , of the whole Church . Acts 15. 2 , v. 6. 25. Acts 16. 4. Acts 21. 18. 25 ? I believe addition of lawfull power doth not annull lawfull power , but corroborate and strengthen it . So this shall fall upon your owne Eldership of your independent Congregation . Suppose ●en Pastors , Elders and Doctors in one of your Congregations , whereas sometime there were but three , and these three had the sole power of Jurisdiction and exercise of the Keyes , you cannot say that the accession of six Elders to three , hath made null the power of three , and swallowed up their voyces ; for if their power and voyces were against the truth , it is fit they should be swallowed up : if they were for CHRIST , they are strengthened , by the accession of lawfull power and moe voyces , and neither annulled nor swallowed up .

Object . 6. The Church at the first , for example , when it was but a hundreth and twenty , had the full entire power within it selfe : Ergo , it should bee in a worse case by the multiplication of Churches , if now that power bee given to Presbyteries .

Ans. It is a conjecture , that the whole Christian Church Acts 1. was onely an hundreth and twenty . I thinke there were more , though these onely convened at the ordination of Matthias , for there were above five hundred Brethren at once which saw CHRIST after his Resurrection , 1 Cor. 15. 6. and these , I Judge , belonged to the Christian Church also . 2. It is constantly denied that addition of lawfull power to lawfull power doth arnull , or put in a worse condition the prexistent power ; it doth helpe it , but not make it worse : and twenty Churches adding their good and Christian counsells , and comforts to two Churches doe not annull , or hurt or swallow up either the power of good counseling in these two Churches or their good counsels , but do much confirme , and strengthen them .

Object . 7. It is absurd that there should be a Church in a Church , and two distinct kind of Churches , or a power above a power , a Jurisdiction above a Jurisdiction , a State above a State , as Master and Servant , and Father and Sonne , so there is here a governing and a commanding Classicall Presbytery , and a governed and commanded Classicall Church , and in a politicall consideration formally different : now where there bee two different States , there be two different names , Titles , and Adiuncts , as 1 Cor. 12. 28. GOD hath set some in the Church , first Apostles , secondarily Prophets . So it is said , Genesis 1. GOD made two distinct Lights , a greater Light to serve the Day , and a lesser Light to rule the Night . But the Scripture maketh no mention of greater or lesser Presbyteries , wee have the name of Presbytery but twice in the New Testament , and in matter they differ not , for these same Elders are the matter of both : in form they differ not , for the same combination and union is in all : they differ not in operations , for the superior hath no operations but such as the inferior can exercise , for because a Pastor exhort●th a Pastor comforteth , we doe not make two kindes of Pastors , if wee cannot finde a distinction betwixt presbyter and Presbyter , how can w●e 〈◊〉 a distinction betwixt Presbytery and Presbytery ? Hath the Wisdome of Christ left these Thrones in such a confusion , as by Scripture they cannot be knowen , by Name , Title , Nature , Operations ? And if there be a power above a power , wee have to a●end to a Nation and so to subdite a whole Nation , and their consciences to this Government , and we are to put a Kingdome within a Kingdom .

Answ. A Church-Congregationall within a Church-Classicall is no more inconventent , then a part in the whole , an Hand in the Body , and that is a lesser body in a greater , and our Brethren call the people a Church , and the Elders the Elders of the Church , and what is this but a Church in a Church ? 2. A power above a power , is not absurd , ex●ept it be a Church-power , so above a Church-power , as the Superior power be privative and destructive to the inferior , as the Popes power distroyeth the power of the Chu●ch Universall , and the prelates power destroyeth the power of the 〈◊〉 where of he is pretended Pastor . But the power of the presbytery is A●xiliarte , and cumulative to helpe the Congregation , not privative and destructive to destroy the power of congregations .

Secondly , a power above a power in the Church cannot be denied by our Brethren : for 1. In the Eldership of a ●●●gle Congregation , the Eldership in the Court hath a power of Jurisdiction above a power of order , which one single Minister hath , to preach the Word and administrate the Sacraments ; for they may regulate the Pastor and censure him , if he preach hereticall Doctrine : is not this a power above a power ? yea two Elders in the Court have a power of Jurisdiction to governe with the whole prebsytery , but the power of the whole presbytery is above the power of a part . But to com● neerer ; The Apostles and Elders at Ierusalem met in a Synod have a power , in dogmaticall poynts over the Church at Antioch , and others : and our Brethren say that the Church at Antioch might have in their inferiour Synod determined these same poynts which the Synod determined at Ierusalem ; her 's power above power .

Thirdly , we doe not see how they be two , or divers indicatures formally and specisically different in nature and operations , for they differ onely in more or lesse extension of power , as the reasons doe prove , as the power of government in one City or Borough , doth not differ formally from the power of the whole Cities and Boroughs , incorporated and combined in one common Judicature , and the power of two or three , or foure Colledges , doth not differ from the power of the whole combination of Colledges combined in the common Judicature of the Universities : so here the powers of the inferior Judicatures do differ from the Superior onely in degree , and in number of members of the Judicatures ; the policy divine is one and the same , though the Superior can exercise acts of Jurisdiction different from the Acts of the inferior in an ordinary way ; such as are ordination of Pastors and excommunication , where many Churches are consociated ; though , where this consociation is not , Ordination and Excommunication may be done by one single Congregation : also to argue from the not distinction of Names , Titles and Adjuncts of the Iudicatures is but a weake Argument , because Congregationall , and presbyterian , provinciall and a nationall Church-Body make all one body , and the inferior is but a part and member of the Superior , and thefore it was not needfull that as Apostles and Prophets , and the Sun the greater light by name and Office is distinguished from the Moone Gen. 1. the lesser light , that Congregation and Presbyter should be distinguished by Names and Office and Titles in the Scripture ; for a Prophet is not formally a part of an Apostle , but an Officer formally different from him , and the Moone is not a part of the Sun , as a Congregation is a part of the Classicall Church : so Mat. 18. the Scripture distinguisheth not the people and Elders in the word ( Ecclesia ) Church , as our Brethren will have then both meant in that place , Mat. 18. Teil the Church . Now we say as they doe to us in the like , we are not to distinguish where the Law doth not distinguish . But the Scripture sayth , Mat. 18. The Church that the offended hath recourse unto , is that Church which must be obeyed as a Judicature and spirituall Court , but the people is neither a Judicature , nor any part thereof . And 2. Of that Church Christ doth speake that doth actually bind on Earth and loose on Earth , and that by the power of the Keyes , but the people neither as a part of the Court doth actually bind and loose on Earth by power of the Keyes . 3. Christ speaketh of that Court , and of that Church which doth exercise Church-power on Earth , under the title of binding and loosing ; but we find not a Church in the face and presence of the people binding and loosing under the name of the Church , in the Word of God . Shall we use such an insolent signification of the word Church , as the Word of God doth not use ? and Lastly , I say of these of Corinth gathered together convened together in the Name of the Lord Jesus , with the Ministeriall spirit of Paul and with the power of the Lord Iesus ; these cannot be the Church excommunicating before the people . The Text destinguisheth not the Court of Elders who hath the power of Jurisdiction from the people , and all these to whom he writeth , and who were puffed up and mourned not for the scandall , have no such power of Jurisdiction : nor can the Text beare that the Elders set up a Court before the Eyes of all the people , and delivered such a man to Satan , so as this is called the head of Elders and people , as our Brethren teach , and here they distinguish where the Scripture distinguisheth not .

Fourthly , if the Scripture give to us Thrones really different , though names and titles cannot be found , more then we find expresly and in words ; two Sacraments , three Persons and one God , Christ Iesus in two Natures , and one Person , then have we what we seeke : but wee have these different in the things themselves , as Acts 2. 46. wee have a Church meeting in an House , for Word and Sacraments , as Acts 20. 8. and a Congregation in Corinth meeting in an House , 1 Cor. 11. 20. 1 Cor. 14. 23. and consequently here must bee some power in this meeting to order the worship of God : this single meeting is to rebuke those that sinne openly , and to hinder Women to preach in the Congregation ; and to forbid , by the power of the Keys , that two speake at once ; because God is the God of order ; to borbid Doctrine that edifieth not , and speaking Gods Word in an unknowen Tongue , &c. 2. There is an Eldership 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in every City in Ephesus , in Ierusalem who met for Jurisdiction , Acts 21. 18. who layd hands on Timothy , 1 Tim. 14. 14. in Antioch , Acts 13. 1. 3. There is a meeting of a provinciall Church in Galathia ; where there are many Churches , as may be gathered from Acts 5. 9. 10. who were to purge out the scandalous and false Teachers who leavened all others , and who were Gal. 6. 1. to restore with the spirit of meekenesse any fallen Brother ; and 4. There a map and patterne of a generall Synod warranting both a nationall Church-meeting , and an O●cumenick councell . And the like may be gathered from that Synod , Acts 1. and Acts 6. where these universall guides of the whole Christian World , to wit , the Apostles were , and did exercise Jurisdiction , by ordaining of Officers ; and though instances of these could not be given in Scripture , there is a morall ground and warrant for it 1. Because joynt power of Jurisdiction are surer and better , then a lesser and dispersed power . For if the Keys be given to the Church visible , not to this or this little Church , as meetting in a private House , Acts 2. 46. Acts 20. 8. The division or union of this power , the extension of it must be squared by the rule of most convenient edification , and it cannot stand with edification if it be given to one Congregation onely : The God of nature for conserving humane societies , hath given the power of government originally , not to one , but to a multitude ; for one onely is not in danger to be wronged and oppressed in a society ; but a society is in this danger , therefore hath God given this power to a multitude : and a multitude is the formall object of policy and government , and cannot but be d●ssolved , where Lawes and Government are not ; So the God of Grace must have given a power of government to a society and multitude of little Churches : for a multitude of Congregations is a multitude , and therefore this society and consociation cannot subsist , except Christ have provided a supernaturall government for it . It is not reasonable , that some say , a morall institution is not an institution ; for Magistracy is both morall , and a Divine institution ; that God have a certaine day for his service is both morall , and also a Divine institution : all institutions are not meerly positive , as some suppose , such as is , that the last day of the week be the Sabbath , that Bread and Wine be signes of Christs Body br●ken , and his Blood shed for us . So supposing that Christ have a visible Church , it is morall that shee have power of government also , in so farre as shee is a Church . Yea power of government , upon this supposition , is naturall , or rather con naturall ; so by the same ground upon supposall that Christ have , in a Nation , a multitude of consociated Churches , who for vicinity may either edifie , encourage , comfort and provoke ●re another to love and good workes , they submitting themselves to the Lawes of Christs policy , or may scandalize one another ( as many consociated Churches in Galathia were bent to bite , dev●ure and consume one another , Gal. 5. 15. ) it is morall , yea and con-naturall that they be under a Divine policy externall . Nor is it more agreeable to the Wisdome of Christ that a multitude of consociated Churches in one Land should be left to the Lawes of nature , and Christian brother-hood , and be loosed from all Lawes of externall policy , then that the just Lord who intendeth the conservation of humane societies should leave every man to the Law of nature , and not give them a power to set up a Magistracy , and to appoynt humane and civill Lawes whereby they may be conserved . And I thinke we should all say , if God had appoynted every great Family ▪ yea or every twenty Families in the World to be independent , within it selfe and subordinate to no civill law , to no power , to no Magistracy without that independent little incorporation , that God had not then appoynted a power of civill Policy , and civill Lawes for the conservation of mankind ; and the reason should be cleare , because in one Shire , Countrey , Province and Nation there should be a multitude , to wit , ten hundred , ten thousand independent Kingdomes subject to no Lawes , nor civill policy , but immediately subordinate to GOD in the Law of nature , and when these ten thousand should rise up and with the Sword devoure one another , and one society independent should wrong another , the onely remedy should be to complaine to God , and renounce civill communion with such Societies ; that is , traffique not with them , ( doe not take or give , borrow or lend , buy or sell with them ) but it is unlawfull to use any coercive power of naturall , or civill reparation to compell them to doe duty , or execute mercy and Judgement one toward another : now seeing grace destroyeth not nature , neither can there be a policy independent which doth contradict this maxime of naturall policy , acknowledged by all , in all policies , civill , naturall , supernaturall , God intending the conservation of societies both in Church and State hath subjected all Societies , and Multitudes to Lawes of externall policy : but so it is , a Multitude of little Congregations is a Multitude ; and a Society . Then it must follow , that government of independent little bodies , under no coactive power of Church censures , must want all divine institution and so be will worship .

For these it shall be easie to answer the obloquies of some , saying , that a nationall Church under the New Testament is Judaisme . Hence say they , a nationall Religion , a nationall Oath or Covenant , is like a World-Church , a Church , a huge body as big as the Earth : and so , if some Augustus should subdue the whole World to himselfe with the Sword , Hee might compell the World to bee all of one Church , of one Religion .

Answ. The terme Nationall-Church is not in the Word of God , but I pray you in what sense can the Iewish-Church bee called a Nationall-Church ? I conceive not , because of the typicall and ceremoniall observances that put a Church-frame on the whole Nation : for if so , then the name of a Nationall Church or a nationall Religion cannot , by envy it selfe , bee put in the reformed Churches , or on Church of Scotland which hath suffered so much for Iewish and Romish Ceremonies . But if the Jewes were a Nationall-Church , because they were a holy Nation in profession , and God called the Nation , and made 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a Church externally called to grace and glory and the whole Nation commensurable , and of equall extent then all Christian Nations professing the true Faith , and the Gentiles , as well as the Iewes ; Then the believing Iewes of Pontus , Asia , Cappadocia , and Bythinia ( as Augustine , Eusebius , Oecumenius , Athanasius doe thinke that Peter wrote to the Iewes ) yea and the Gentiles , ( as many interpreters with Lorinus , Thomas , Lyra and others thinke ) are yet 1 Pet. 2. 9. an holy Nation , and so a Nationall Church ; and there is no more reason to scoffe at a Nationall Church in this sense , then to mocke the holy Spirit which maketh but one Church in all the World , Cant. 6. 9. as Cotton , Ainsworth , and other favorable witnesses to our Brethren , confesse ; And if the Gentiles shall come to the light of the Jewish Church , and Kings to the brightnesse of of their rising , Esai . 60. 3. if the abundance of the Sea shall be converted to the Iewes true Faith and Religion ; And the forces of the Gentiles shall come to them , vers. 5. and if all flesh shall see the revealed glory of the Lord , Esai . 40. 5. and the Earth shall bee filled with the knowledge of God , as the Seas are filled with Water . It is most agreeable to the Lords Word that there , is and shall be a Church through the whole World ; you may nickname it as you please , and call it a World-Religion , a World-Church . As if the lost and blinded World , Ioh. 2. 16 , 17. 1 Joh. 5. 19. 2 Corin , 4. 4. were all one with the Loved , Redeemed , Pardoned and Reconciled World , Ioh. 3. 16. Ioh. 1. 29. 2 Cor. 5. 19. as if wee confounded these two Worlds , and the Religion of these two Worlds . And if this World could meet in its principall lights , neither should an universall councell , nor an Oath of the whole Representative Church be unlawfull , but enough of this before . And what if the World bee subdued to the World , and a World of Nations come in , and submit to Christs Scepter , and royall power in his externall government : are the opposers such strangers in the Scriptures , as to doubt of this ? Reade then Esai . 60. 4. 5. c. 60. 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 , 15 : v. 4. 5 , 6 7. Psal. 2. 8 , 9. Psal. 72. 8. 9. 10. Esai . 54. 3. Esai . 49. 1. Esai . 45. 22. 23. Psal. 110 : 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 5. and many other places , and there is a Kingdome in a Kingdome . Christs Kingdome and his Church lodging in a Worldly Kingdome , and Christ spiritually in his power triumphing over the World , and subduing Nations to his Gospell .

Object . 8. If Classicall Presbyters be not Elders in ●elation to the classicall Church , and so to all the Congregations in it , yee must forsake all these places , where it is said , the Elders of Jerusalem , the Elders of Ephesus , the Angels of the seven Churches , which is absurd ; if they be Elders to all these Churches , then 1. All those people in those Churches must submit their consciences to them and their Ministery , as to a lawfull ordinance of God . 2. All the people of those Churches must have voyce in election of them all . 3. All these people owe to the●s maintenance and double honor . 1 Tim. 5. 17. for if the Oxes mouth must not be muzl●d , but he must be fed by me and my corne , he must tread my corne , and labour for me . These Churches cannot all meet in one , to ordaine , and chuse all these Ministers , and to submit to their Ministery .

Answ. The Elders are Elders of Ephesus and Elders of Jerusalem , not because every Elder hath a speciall , pastorall charge over every Church distributively taken , for it was unpossible that one Congregation of all the converts in Ierusalem extending to so many thousands , could all beare the relation of a Church to one man as their proper Elder , who should personally reside in all , and every one of those Congregations to watch for their soules , to preach to all and every Congregation 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in season and out of season . But they are in cumulo called Elders of Ephesus , in that sense that Kings are called the Kings of the Nations not because every King was King of every Nation , for the King of Edom was not the King of Babylon ; and the King of Babel was not the King of Assyria , yet amongst them they did all fill up that name to be called the Kings of the Nations , so were the Elders of Ierusalem in cumulo , collectively taken , Elders of all the Churches of Ierusalem collectively taken ; and as it followeth not that the King of Edom , because hee is one of the Kings of the Nations , is elected to the Crowne of Caldea , by the Voyces of the States and Nobles of Caldea ; so is it not a good consequence , such a number are called the Elders of the Church of Ierusalem , therefore the Elder of one Congregation at the Easterne Gate at Ierusalem , is also an Elder of a Congregation of the Westerne Gate . Nor doth it follow that these two Congregations should submit their consciences to one and the same Elder as to their proper Pastor ; to whose Ministery they owe consent in Election , Obedience in submitting to his Doctrine , and mainetenance for his labours ; all these are due to him , who is their owne proper Pastor : the as Caldeans owe not Honour , Allegiance , Tribute to the King of Edom , though the Kingdome of Caldea bee one of the Kingdomes of the Nations , and the King of Edom one of the Kings of the Nations . But if indeede all the Kings of the Nations did meete in one Court , and in that Court governe the Nations with common Royall authority , and counsell in those things which concerne all the Kingdomes in common ; then all the Nations were obliged to obey them in that Court , as they governe in that Court , but no farther : and when the people doe consent to the power of that common Court ●●citly , they consent that every one of these shall bee chosen King of such and such a Kingdome ; and promise also tracitly Obedience , and Subjection to every one of the Kings of the Nations , not simply as they are Kings in relation to such a Kingdome , but onely as they are members of that Court ; so the Congregations acknowledging and consenting to the classicall Presbytery , doe tracitly chuse and consent to the common charge and care that every Pastor hath , as hee is a Member of that common Court which doth concerne them all , therefore all these consequences are null .

Object . 9. But when the Presbytery doth excommunicate in a particular Congregation by a delegate , they may with as good reason , preach by a delegate , as exercise Jurisdiction by a delegate ; the one is as personall and incommunicable , as the ●●●r .

Answ. It is certaine there bee great oddes ; for the acts of jurisdiction performed by speaking in the Name of Iesus Christ , doe come from a Colledge and Court , and because it were great confusion that a whole Court should speake , therefore of necessity such acts must be done by a delegate . Indeed the Juridicall acts of the whole juridicall proceeding of decerning the man to be excommunicated cannot bee done by one man onely , it would bee most conveniently done by the whole Senate , or at least by a select number against which the accused party hath no exception , and is willing to bee judged by ; but the acts of order , as Preaching flowing from the power of order , can be performed only by the Pastor in his owne person , and not by a deputy . Except that a Synodicall teaching , which commeth from the power of Jurisdiction may bee sent in writ by Messengers and Deputies to the Churches , Acts 15. 25. Acts 16. 4.

Object . 10. A Pastor is not a Pastor , but in relation to his owne Church , or Congregation . Therefore hee cannot doe Pastorall Acts of either Order , or Jurisdiction in a Presbyterie .

Answ. How a Pastor is a Pastor in relation to all the World deserveth discussing .

First , Some have neither power of Order nor Jurisdiction in any place , as private persons .

Secondly , some have both power of Order and Jurisdiction through all the World , as the Apostles who might teach and administrate the Sacraments , and Excommunicate as Apostles , in every Church .

Thirdly , some have power of Order , and Jurisdiction in a certaine determinate place , as Pastors in their owne particular Congregations .

Fourthly , some have power of Order in relation to all the World , as Pastors of a Congregation , who are Pastors validly Preaching and Administrating the Sacraments , but orderly and lawfully Preaching , where they have a calling of those , who can call to the occasionall exercise of their calling hic & nunc . In this meaning a Pastor of one flock is a Pastor , in regard of power of Order to all the World . Because though his pastorall teaching be restrained by the Church in ordinary , onely to this Congregation , yet hath hee a pastorall power to preach to all the World , in in an occasionall way , both by Word and Writ , yet doth not this power being but the halfe of his Ministeriall power , denominate him a Pastor to all the World , as the Apostles were ; and the same way hath hee power to administrate the Sacraments , and this way may our Brethren see that power of order to be a Minister or Pastor is given by the Presbytery , so as if the man were deprived clave non errante , hee now hath lost his pastorall relation to both the Catholick Church , and that Congregation , whereof hee is a Pastor . So as hee is now a private man , in relation not onely to that Congregation whereof hee was a Pastor , but also in relation to the whole visible Church ; now no particular Congregation hath power to denude him of this relation , that he had to the whole catholick Church . But a Pastor of a flock is a Pastor in respect of power of Jurisdiction , not over all the World , to excommunicate in every Presbytery , with the Presbytery , hee is onely capable by vertue of his power of order , to exercise power of Jurisdiction , where hee shall come , upon suposall of a call , if hee be chosen a Pastor there , or be called to be a Commissioner in the higher , or highest Courts of the Church catholick , but other wayes he hath no power of Jurisdiction , but in that Court whereof he is a member ; that is , in the Eldership of a Congregation , and in the Classicall Presbytery : for hee is so a member of a Congregation , as he is also a member of the Classical Presbytery , and therefore though he be not a Pastor one way in this Classicall Court , I meane in respect of power of order , yet is hee a Pastor , 〈◊〉 , in watching over that Church , in respect of power of Jurisdiction .

Our Brethrens ground then is weake when they say . A Pastor cannot give the Seales to those of another Congregation , because he hath no Ministeriall power over those of another Congregation ; if they meane power of Jurisdiction , it is true , he hath no Jurisdiction over those of another Congregation : but if they meane , hee hath no power of order over them , that is , for what ever be the Churches part in this , it is certaine the Pastor doth administrate the Seales by power of order , and not by power of Iurisdiction , and the Church as the Church hath not any power of order , for shee is not called to any pastorall dignity , though wee should grant that , which yet can never bee proved , that shee is invested with a Ministeriall power .

Object , 11. If the Church , which you suppse to be presbyteriall , to wit , the Church of Corinth , did excommunicate , or was commanded to excommunicate the incestu●us person , before the Congregation convened and met in one , then must your classicall Church exercise all other acts of Iurisdiction , before all the Congregationall Churches of the Classicall Presbytery meete in one .

But this latter is as unpossible , as absurd ; For how shall thirty or forty Congregations meet all , in one place , for all the severall acts of Jurisdiction ? Also you confesse that many Congregations cannot meete in one place : that the proposition may be made good ; We suppose these grounds of the Presbyteriall frame of Churches : 1. That the presbyteriall Church of Corinth , not the Congregation had the onely power of excommunication . 2. That this man was to be excommunicated in presence , and so with the consent of the whole multitude , for so the Text sayth , 1 Cor. 5. 4. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . When you are gathered together . 3. Excommunication is the highest act of Iurisdiction in the Church , being the binding of the sinner in Heaven and Earth , if therefore this highest act of Iurisdiction must bee performed before all the Church congregated in one , then must all acts of Iurisdiction be performed also in presence of the congregated Church ; for it concerneth their edification , and is a matter of conscience to then : all . 4. The reason why wee thinke sit hee should be excommunicated before , or in presence of that Congregation whereof hee is a member , is because it concerneth them , and hee is a member of this Congregation , But by your grounds , the whole Presbyteriall or classicall Church should be present , which were unpossible ; for hee is to you a Member of the whole Classicall Church , and the power of excommunication is in the whole classicall Church , and they ought to bee present by the same reason , that the Congregation , whereof hee is a neerest member , is present .

Answ. 1. There be many things in this argument to be corrected , as 1. That the Church of Corinth conve●ed in the whole multitude whom it concerned , for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , doth not prove it ; for the same Word is spoken of the meeting of the Apostles and Elders , who met in a Synod with authority , Acts 15. 6. the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is attributed to the multitude , Acts 21. v. 22. and to the Church of Believers , 1 Cor. 11. 20. and 1 Cor. 14. 23. therefore the one word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 seemeth to bee no cogent Argument . 2. The word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , which is not here in all this Chapter , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is used in the New Testament , and by the seventy Interpreters , whose translation Christ and his Apostles doe frequently follow in the New Testament , use the words for any meeting of good or ill , of civill or Ecclesiasticall persons . As I might instance is a great many places of the Old and New Testament ; then what is it , I pray you , which restricteth the signification of these words to signifie a civill , rather then an Ecclesiasticall meeting ? certainly the actions which the company doth when they are met , and the end for which they meete . I give an instance in Acts 19. 41. the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ( the like I say of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) signifieth not the Church of Christ , and why ? it is a reason that cannot bee controlled . They were assembled for to raise a tumult against Paul which was no Church-action , and so no Church end is here . So v. 39. But if you enquire any thing in other matters , it shall be determined 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in a lawfull assembly ; surely the end of such an assembly in Ephesus , where this man was Town-Clark in the meeting , could be . no Church-businesse , Hence wee are led to know what 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , an Assembly or Church signifieth here not the Church of Christ , so Psal. 22. 16. the Assembly of the wicked hath inclosed mee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Merighem the seventy Interpreters turne it 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and T●rtullian followeth them , the persons congregated , the actions and end for which they convenc lead us to this , that the Word signifieth not a Church of Christ . So wee may see , Psal. 26. 5. the Congregation of Elders cannot bee a true Church , 2. 1 Cor. 11. 18. for first when you come together to the Church , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , I heare there are divisions amongst you . The place must signifie the Church of Believers , because the end of their meeting was the Supper of the Lord , or their communion , v. 20. as the Text cleareth , and 1 Cor. 14. 23. when the whole Church commeth together , that was for prophecying and hearing of the Word , as the Text is evident , v. 16 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 24 , 25 26 , 27. and therefore here the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 must signifie the Church of Pastors preaching , and people hearing the Word , praying and praising God . So in the third place when 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , the Church is convened to bind and loose , and to excommunicate , as Mat. 18. 17. 18. 19. there is no necessity that the Word Church , should include those who have no power of the keyes , and cannot by power of the Keyes bind and loose . And therefore from the naked and meere Grammar of the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , no argument can bee drawen to prove that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Matth. 18. 17. must signifie that same which it doth signifie , 1 Corin. 1. 1. 1 Corin. 11. 18. 1 Corin. 14. 23. for the word actu primo , and originally , signifieth any meeting , but the persons who are Congregated and the end for which they meete leadeth us to the meaning and Grammaticall sense of the word , in that place . Now Matth. 18. the Ecclesia , a Church Congregated there is such as bindeth and looseth in Heaven and Earth , and congregated for that use : therefore I see not how the circumstances of the place helping us to the Grammaticall sense of the word here , as in all other places , doth not inforce us to say in this place Mat. 18. the word Ecclesia , Church , must signifie onely those who have power to bind and loose , that is , only the Elders , and not the people . So to come to the place , 1 Cor. 5.

Those who come under the name of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , congregated together , must bee expounded by the persons Office , and the end of their meeting , now the persons Office is Ministeriall , hee will have them congregated by Pauls Ministeriall spirit , and in the name and with the power of the Lord Jesus , this is the power of the Keyes , which hee who hath Davids Keyes Esai . 22. 22. on his Shoulders , Revel . 3. 7. giveth to his owne Officers , Matth. 16. 19. and these persons cannot be all that hee writeth unto v. 1. all that were p●ffed up , and mourned not at the offence given by the incestuous 〈◊〉 , to Iesus Christs holy Nam● and Church , all who are to forbeare eating and drinking with excommunicated persons , vers. 11. all who were in danger to be leavened , vers 6. all who were to keepe the Feast in sincerity , not with the old Leaven of wickednesse and malice : for these directly were the whole multitude of Believers , Men , Women , and Children , who ( I am sure ) were not capable of the Keyes and the Ministeriall power of Paul . 2. The end wherefore these 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 who were convened , did meete and convene , was , vers. 5. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . to deliver the man to Satan , they were not convened to celebrate the Lords Supper , as the Church is convened , 1 Cor. 11. 18. nor for hearing the Word of Prophecy , or Preaching , as 1 Cor. 14. 23 , 24. And whether you construe the Words 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 with the Power of the Lord Iesus , with the Verbe 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to deliver to Satan , or with the Participle 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 congregated in the Name and Power of CHRIST , all is one ; the multitude of common Believers , of Men , Women , and Children , are neither capable of the power , nor of the exercise of that power to deliver to Satan . And therefore this meeting together , by no Grammar doth leade us to say that the sentence was to be pronounced in face and presence of the multitude convened , vers. 21. Giving , but not granting that the Church of Corinth , in all its members , must bee convened . Though I hold it not necessary by this place , yet it followeth not that all other acts of Jurisdiction must bee exercised in face of the whole Congregation : for there is a speciall reason of the pronouncing of the sentence , which is not in other acts : the pronouncing of the sentence , concerneth more the neerest Congregation of which the Delinquent is a member , in relation of nearest and dayly Communion , it concerneth also other Congregations of the Classicall Church , of which also the Delinquent is a member , but not so immediately and neerely , because ( as I sayd before ) the more universall the Church visible is , the externall visible Communion is l●sse ; even as when the number of a Family is cut off , by the Sword of the Magistrate , the matter first and more intimately and more neerely concerneth the Family whereof hee is a Member , yet it doth also concerne the Common-Wealth , of which also hee is a Member . A Finger of the right Hand is infected with a contagious Gangren , it is to bee cut off ; yet the cutting-off concerneth more neerely the right Hand , then it doth the left Hand , and the whole Body . For the contagion should first over-spread the right Hand and Arme , and Shoulder , before it infect the left Hand , and the whole Body ; though it doe not a little concerne the whole Body also . So though actuall Excommunication concerne all the Churches of the Presbyterie : yet it doth more neerely concerne the Congregation whereof hee is a Member . 2. The pronouncing of the sentence being edificative , it is a fit meane to worke upon others , but calling and trying of witnesses , and Juridicall decerning of a Man to bee Excommunicated , requiring secrecies , yea and some scandals , and circumstances of Adultery , Incest , Pestiality , requiring a modest covering of them , from Virgins , young Men , Children and the multitude , wee have no warrant of GOD , that they should bee tryed before the whole multitude , nor are acts of Jurisdiction for their excellency , to bee brought forth before the people but for their neerenesse of concernment , and use of edification .

Object . 12. The people are to consent , yea they must have a power , and some thing more than a consent in Excommunication ; Ergo , they are all to bee present . The antecedent is proved , 1. Because they were not puffed up , they did not keepe the Feast , they did not dostaine from eating with the incestuous person , onely by consent . 2. Others not of that Church did excommunicate by consent . 3. It is said , v. 12 , doe yee not judge them that are within ?

Answ. If you will have them to excommunicate the same way , that they doe other duties , you may say they excommunicate the same way that Pastors and Elders doe , and if they Judge , vers. 12. as the Elders doe , either all the people are Judges , and where are then all the governed , if all bee governours ? or then hee speaketh in this Chapter to the Churches-Iudges onely . 2. There bee degrees of consent , these of other Churches have a tacite and remote consent , the people of the Congregation are to heare , and know the cause , and deale in private with the offender , and to mourne , and pray for him .

Object . 13. The highest and double honour is due to him who laboureth in the word , 1 Tim. 5. 17. but if the Presbyteriall Church be the highest Church , it shall not have the double honour , for it is onely the governing Church .

Answ. Highest honour is due in suo genere , to both . And this is , as if you should compare obedience and honour , that I owe to my Father with that which I owe to my grand-Father , 2. Paul , 1 Tim. 5. 17. compareth Elders of diverse sorts together ; as the Ruling and Teaching Elder , here you compare Pastors to bee honoured in respect of one act , with themselves to bee honoured in respect of another act ; and this might prove , I am to give more honour to my Pastor for preaching in the Pulpit , then for ruling in the Church-Senate .

Object . 14. The Congregation is the highest Church , for it hath all the Ordinances , Word , Sacraments , Jurisdiction ; Ergo , there is not any Presbyteriall Church higher which hath only disciplinary power .

Answ. There is a double highnesse , one of Christian Dignity . 2. Another , of Church-prehemenency , or of Ecclesiasticall authority : indeed the Congregation , the former way , is highest , the company of Believers is the Spouse and ransomed Bride of Christ . But the Eldership hath the Ecclesiasticall eminency ; as the Kings heire and Sonne is above his Master and Teacher one way , yet the Teacher ( as the Teacher by the fift Commandement ) is above the Kings Sonne as the Teacher is above him who is taught ; And so is the Case here .

Object . 15. The Arguments for a Classicall , or Presbyteriall Church do much side with Prelacy ; for you make many Lords ruling and not teaching .

Answ. Let all judge whether the independent power of three Elders accountable to none , in a Church-way , but to Iesus Christ onely , as you make your little Kingdomes on Earth , be neerer to the Popes Monarchy , and especially when there is but one Pastor in the Congregation , then the subordinate Government of fourescore , or an hundred Elders● sure I am , three Neighbours are neerer to one Monarch , then three hundred . 2. One Monarchicall Society is as tyrannicall Antichristianism as one Monarchicall Pastor . 3. If wee made many ruling and dominering Lords , you should say something ; but wee make many servants endued onely with Ministeriall power , onely to teach and rule , and to bee accomptable to the Church ; your Eldership in this agreeth with the Pope , that though they deliver many Soules to Satan , yet no Man on Earth can , in a Church-way , say , What doe you ?

ACT. XV. A Patterne of a juridicall Synod .

THat the Apostles in that famous Synod , Act. 15. did not goe on by the assistance of an immediately inspired spirit and by Apostolick authority , but onely , as Elders , and the Doctors and Teachers assisted with an ordinary spirit , to me is evident from the course of the context .

1. Because Act. 15. when a controversie arise in the Church ●● Antiochia , a a Epiphanius haer. 26. al●●s 28 Epiphanius saith , as also b b Hieronymus Epist. 89. Hieronymus , by C●●mbus , and others , touching the keeping of Moses his Law , especially the Ceremonies , except they would bee losers in the bu●nesse of their salvation , Paul could not goe as sent by Ami●h to submit that Doctrine , which hee received not from flesh and blood , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ , Gal. 1. 12. to the determination of a Synod of Apostles and Elders for who would think that the immediatly inspiring spirit i● P●ul , would submit himselfe , and his Doctrine to the immediately inspiring spirit in Paul , Peter , Apostles , and Elders , therefore Paul and Birnabas , come as sent to Jerusalem , not ●● Apostles , or as immediately inspired , but as ordinary teach●● . Therefore saith c c Diodatus , au in Act. 15. Diodatus , Not because these two A● 〈…〉 were every wayequall to the rest in the light and conduct 〈◊〉 Spirit , and in Apostolicall authority , Gal. 2. 6. 8. had any 〈◊〉 instruction , or of confirmation , but only to give the weake 〈◊〉 , who had more confidence in Peter and James , and in the Church at Jerusalem , and to stop false doctors mouths , and to esta●●●● , by common votes , a generall order in the Church . Hence when a controversie ariseth in the Apostolicke Church , and the Controversie is betwixt an Apostle as Paul was , and others , and both sides alledge Scripture , as here both did , out of all controversie , there is no reason , that the Apostle Paul , who was now a party should judge it : and when a single Congregation in the like case is on two sides , about the like question , nature , reason and Law cry that neither can bee judge , and therefore a Synod is the divine and Apostolick remedie which must condemne the wrong side , as subverters of soules , as here they doe , v. 24. And the Apostle when hee will speake and determine as an Apostle , hee taketh it on him in another manner , as Gal. 5. 2. Behold I Paul say unto you , that if you bee circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing ; hee speaketh now as an immediatly inspired pen-man and organ infallible of the holy Ghost : but it were absurd to send the immediately inspired organ of the holy Ghost as such , to aske counsell and seeke resolution from the immediatly inspired organs of the holy Ghost . 2. The rise of controversies in a Church is not Apostolick , nor temporary or extraordinary , but to ordinary wee have the Scriptures indeed to consult with , so had the Churches , whose soules were notwithstanding subverted , v. 24. and this assembly doth determine the controversie by Scripture , v. 14. Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles , &c. v. 15. And to this agree the words of the Prophets , as it is written , &c. But because Scriptures may bee alledged by both sides , as it was here , and wee have not the Apostles now alive to consult withall , can Jesus Christ have left any other externall and Church-remedy , when many Churches are perverted , as here was the cases of the Churches of the Gentiles , v. 23. in Antioch , Syria , and Cilicia , then that Teachers and Elders bee sent to a Synod to determine the question according to the Word of God ?

2. Here also is a Synod and a determination of the Church of Antioch , v. 2. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , They determined to send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem : I prove that it was a Church determination , for Chap. 14. 26. Paul and Barnabas come to Antioch ; v. 24. And when they were come , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , having gathered together the Church of Antioch , they rehearsed all that God had done by them , and how hee had opened the doore of faith unto the Gentiles , ( 28. And there they abode a long time with the disciples ) Chap. 15. 1. And certaine m●n which came downe from Iudea , taught the brethren , Except yee bee circumcised after the manner of Moses , yee c●●●● bee saved ; hence v. 2. when there was much debate about the question , and it could not bee determined there , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , they made a Church-ordinance to send Paul and Barnabas as Church-messengers , o● Church-Commissioners to the Synod , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 relateth to 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the gathered together Church , Chap. 14. v. 27. and it is ●eare , ● . 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , being sent on their way by the Church , to 〈◊〉 of Antiach : Ergo , this was an authoritative Church sending , and not an Apostolick journey performed by Paul as an Apostle , but as a messenger of the Church at Antioch , and as a messenger Paul returneth with Barnabas and giveth a due rec●oning and account of his commission to the Church of Antioch , who sent him , v. 30. So when they , ( Paul and Barnabas having received the determination of the Synod ) w●en they were dismissed , they came to Antioch , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , which words are relative to Chap. 14. 27. having gathered together the Church , and to Chap. 15. 3. being sent on their way by the Church , so here having gathered the whole Church , the multitude , they delivered the Epistle of the Synod , and read it in the hearing of all the multitude , for it concerned the practise of all whereas it was 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Church which sent them , Cb. 14. 27. Ch. 15. 2. 3. So here wee have a subordination of Churches and Church-Synod , for the Synod or Presbytery of Antioch , called the Church con●eened , Ch. 14. 27. and the Church ordaining and enacting that Paul and Barnabas shall be sent as Commissioners to Jerusalem , is subordinate to the greater Synod of Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem , which saith to mee that controversies in an interiour Church-meeting are to be referred to an higher meeting con●●ting of more .

3. The 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , this dissention and disputation betweene Paul and B●rnabas , and some of the beleeving Jewes who taught the brethren they behoved to be circumcised , was a Church-entroversie ; Paul and Barnabas did hold the negative , and defended the Church of the brethren from embracing such wicked opinions ; and when Antioch could not determine the question , Paul and Barnabas had recourse to a Synod , as ordinary Shepheards , who when they could not perswade the ●rethren of the falsehood of the doctrine , went to seeke helpe against subverters of soules , ( as they are called , v. 24. ) at the established judicatures and ecclesiasticail meetings ; for when Pauls preaching cannot prevaile , though it was canonicall , hee descendeth to that course which ordinary Pastors by the light of nature should doe , to seeke helpe from a Colledge of Church-guides ; Ergo , Paul did not this meerely as an Apostle .

4. Vers. 6. The Apostles & Elders came together in an assembly , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to consider of this matter This Synodicall consideration upon the Apostles part , was either Apostolick , or it was Ecclesiastick . It was not Apostelick , because the Apostles had Apostolically considered of it before , Paul had determined v. 2. against these subverters , that they should not bee circumcised , nor was it a thing that they had not fully considered before , for to determine this was not so deepe a mystery as the mystery of the Gospell ; now he saith of the Gospell , 〈◊〉 . 1. 13. I received it not of men , neither was I taught it , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ , v. 16. When it ples'ed God to reveale his sonne to me that I should preach him among the ●eathen , I conferred not with flesh and blood , neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were Apostles before me , &c. then farre lesse did hee conferre with Apostles and Elders , as touching the ceremonies of Moses his Law . If any say , this was an Ecclesiastick meeting , according to the matter , Apostolick , but according to the forme , Ecclesiastick , in respect the Apostles and Elders meet to consider how this might be represented to the Churches as a necessary dutie in this case of scandall ; This is all wee crave , and the decree is formally ecclesiastick , and so the Apostles gave out the decree in an ecclesiasticall way , and this consideration Synodicall is an ecclesiasticall discussion of a controversie which concerned the present practise of the Churches , and it not being Apostolick must obliege many Churches convened in their principall guides , otherwise wee agree that the matter of every ecclesiasticall decree , be a Scripturall truth , or then warranted by the evident light of nature .

5. The manner of the Apostles proceeding in this councell holdeth forth to us that it was not Apostolicke , because they proceed by way of communication of counsells . 1. What light could Elders adde to the Apostles as Apostles , but the Elders as well as the Apostles , convened to consider about this matter , and Act. 21. 18. 25. All the Elders of Jerusalem with James take on them these acts as well as the Apostles , and they are the decrees of the Elders no lesse then of the Apostles , Act. 16. ● . 4. a derivation of the immediate impi●ing Spirit to ●●● Elders , and by them as fellow-members of the Synod to the Apostles , and a derivation of this immediat Apostolick spirit , by the Apostles to the Elders to make them also infallible , is unknowne to Scripture ; for one Prophet did not immediatly inspire another , and one Apostle did not immediatly inspire another , wee read not in the Word of any such thing , and therefore it is said , Act. 15. 7. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , And when there had beene much disputing Peter s●●d up . All who interpret this place say , even Papists not ex●pted , as Salmero com . in 〈◊〉 Salmeron , L●●mus ● . Lorinus , Cornelius a lapt . Cornelius a lapide , and others on the place , that when there is not consultation and disputing on both sides to find out the truth , but an absolute authoritie used by commanding , the proceeding of the counceil is rash ( saith Salmeron ; ) now the Prophets were immediatly inspired , without any consultation with men in delivering Gods will , and they saw the visions of God , as it is said . And the Word of the Lord came to Jeremiah , to Ezechiel , to Hosea , &c. and bee said , &c. yea when a propheticall spirit came upon Ba●●m , Num. 24. bee seeing the visions of God , hee prophecied directly contrary to his owne carnall mind , and to his consultation with Bal●●k : now it is cleare that the Apostles , what they spake , by the breathings and inspirations of that immediatly inspiring Spirit is no lesse cannonick Scripture , then the prophecies of the immediatly inspired Prophets , who saw the visions of God , and therefore 2 Pet. 1. 16 , 17 , 18 , the voyce that the Apostles heard from heaven , This is my beloved Sonn● in whom I am well pleased , is made equall with the word of proph●cie and propheticall Scripture , which the holy men of God spale , ● they were moved by the holy Ghost , v. 19 , 20 , 21. and 2 Pet. 3. 16. Pauls Epistles are put in the classe with other Scriptures , v. 15 , 16. now all Scripture , 2 Tim. 3. 16. is given by divine inspiration , and 2 Peter 3. 2. puteth the words of the Prophets and Apostles in the same place of divine authority , 2 Pet. 3. 2. That yee bee mindfull of the words which were spoken before , by the holy Prophets , and of the commandements of us the Apostles of the Lord and Saviour , whence to mee this synodicall consultation is not Apostolicall , but such as is obligatory of the Churches to the end of the world , and a patterne of a generall Synod .

6. This assembly is led by the holy Spirit , as is cleare , v. 25. 28. but this is not the holy Spirit immediatly inspiring the Apostles as Apostles , but that ordinary Synodicall spirit ( to borrow that expression ) that is promised to all the faithfull pastors and rulers of the Church to the end of the world : because the immediatly inspiring spirit comming on Prophets and Apostles in an immediate inspiration , did necessitate the Prophets and Apostles to acquiesce , and prophesie , and to doe and speake whatsoever this spirit inspired them to doe , and to speake : but this spirit spoken of , v. 28. doth not so , but leaveth the assembly to a greater libertie , because the assembly doth not acquiesce to that which Peter saith from Gods Word , v. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. nor doth the Assembly acquiesce to what Barnabas and Paul saith , v. 12. but onely to that which James saith , v. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16 , 17 , 18. but especially to his conclusion which hee draweth from the Law of nature , not to give scandall , and from the Scriptures cited by himselfe , and by Peter , v. 19 , 20. Wherefore my sentence is , saith James , &c. and this clearely is the sentence of James as a member of the Synod , v. 19. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , which is an expression clearly insinuating that the judgement of James , though it was not contrary to that which Peter , Paul , and Barnabas had spoken , yet that is was somewhat diverse from them , and more particular , and the very mind of the holy Ghost which the whole Synod followed ; and therefore though Peter and Paul spake truth , yet did they not speake that truth , which did compose the controversie , and this is to mee an argument that they all spake , as members of the Synod , and not as Apostles .

7. The immediatly inspired Apostolick Spirit , though it may discourse and inferre a conclusion from such and such premisses , as Paul doth , Rom. 3. 28. and hee proveth from the Scripture , Rom. 4. 4. 5. 6. that wee are justified by saith without workes , and 1 Tim. 5. 17. 18. and Act. 9. 22. Act. 24. 14. 17. and so doth Christ reason and argument from Scripture , Matth. 22. 31. Luk. 24. 25 , 26 , 27. and so have both the Prophets and Apostles argued , yet the immediatly inspired Spirit of God in arguing doth not take helpe by disputing one with another . and yet doth not obtaine the conclusion in hand , but here Pe●●● and Paul argue from Scripture , and they prove indeed a true conclusion that the Gentiles should not keepe Moses his Law , as they would bee saved , yet they did not remove the question , nor satisfic the consciences of the Churches , in their present practise , for if James had not said more , then the Churches had not beene sufficiently directed in their practise by the Synod , and for all that Peter and Paul said , the Churches might have ea●●n meates offered to Idols , and blood , and things strangled , which at that time had been a sin against the Law of nature , and a great stumbling block , and a scandalizing of the Jewes . Except therefore wee say that the Apostles intending as Apostles to determine a controversie in the Church , they did not determine it , which is an injury to that immediatly inspiring spirit that led the Apostles in penning Scripture , wee must say that Peter , Paul , and James here spake as members of an eccle●iasticall Synod , for the Churches after-imitation .

8. If the Apostles here as Apostles give out this decree , then it would seeme that as Apostles , by virtue of the immediatly inspiring spirit , they sent messengers to the Churches , for one spirit directeth all , and by this Text , wee should have no warrant from the Apostles practise , to send messengers to satisfie the consciences of the Churches , when they should bee troubled with such questions : now all our Divines and reason doth evince that a Synod may by this Text send messengers to resolve doubting Churches , in points dogmaticall ; for what the Apostles doe as Apostles , by that power by which they writ canonick Scripture , in that wee have no warrant to imitate them .

9. I propounded another argument before , which prevaileth much with mee ; The Elders of an ordinary Presbytery and Churches , such as conveened at this Synod cannot be collaterall actors with the immediatly inspired Apostles for the penning of Canonick Scripture , but in this Synod not onely Elders , but the whole Church , as our reverend brethren teach , were actors in penning this decre , Act. 15. 28. Ergo , this decree is Synodicall , not Apostolick . I have heard some of our reverend brethren say , all were not actors in the decree , pari gradu authoritatis , with a like degree : and equall authoritie , every one according to their place did concurre in forming this decree . I answer , it cannot bee said that all in their owne degree saw the visions of God , and all in their owne degree were immediatly inspired to bee penmen of Canonick Scripture , for Paul in penning this , The cloake that I left at Troas bring with thee , and the Parchmen●s , was no lesse immediatly inspired of God , then were the Prophets , who saw the visions of God , and then when hee penned the , 1 Tim. 1. 15. That Jesus Christ came into the world to s●●● sinners ; except wee flee to a Popish distinction which Duvallius and Jesuits hold , that all and every part , tota Scriptura , and totum Scripturae , is not given by divine inspiration , because ( say they ) the Apostles spake and wrote some things in the New Testament as immediatly inspired by God , as did the Prophets , but they spake and wrote other things 〈◊〉 necessary , with an inferiour and Apostolick or Synodica●● spirit , which the Pe●e and Church may decree in Synods to ●ee received with the like faith and subjection of conscience , as if the Apostles had written them . 2. You must say there was two holy 〈◊〉 the penning of the decree , one immediatly inspiring the Apostles , another inferior assisting the Elders ; or at 〈◊〉 diverse and most different acts of that same ho●y 〈…〉 way inspiring the Apostles , and in a fallible way , inspiring the Elders . But with your leave , Act. 21. 24. The ordinary I●es●ytery at Ierusalem , by that same Synodicall spirit , by which they or●aine Paul to purifie himselfe , doe ascribe to themselves this decree , v. 25. 3. Wee de●ire a warrant from Gods Word , of commixion of immediatly inspired Apostles as immediatly inspired with Elders , assisted with an ordinary spirit , for the p●●ning of Scripture .

10. Wee thinke the Presbytery of Jerusalem as an ordinary Presbytery , Act. 21. 18. and contradivided from the Church of Jrusalem , v. 22. The multitude must needs come together , for they heare that thou art come , did ordaine Paul to purifie himselfe , and it is cleare Paul otherwise would not have purified himselfe , and therefore hee did not by the immediatly inspired spirit purifie himselfe , and obey their decree , which was grounded upon the Law of nature , not to scandalize weake beleevers , v. ●0 , 21. and bt this same holy spirit did Paul with other of the Apostles write this decree , as is cleare v. 25.

11. If the Apostles did all in this Synod as immediatly inspired by God , then should the Synod have followed the determination of any one Apostle , of Peter and Paul , as well as of 〈◊〉 , for the immediatly inspiring spirit is alike perfect in all ●●s determinations , but it is said expresly , v. 22. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , &c. Then it seemed good to the Apostles , &c. and so to 〈◊〉 , and Peter , and Paul , to follow the sentence of James , 〈◊〉 the rest of the Apostles ; now if James spake as an immediately inspired Apostle , and not by vertue of that Synodicall Spirit given to all faithfull Pastors conveened in a lawfull Synod , then should James have acquiesced to what Peter and Paul aid , and not to what hee said himselfe , and Peter should have acquiesced to what hee said , and Paul to what hee said , ●● every inspired writer is to obey what the immediatly inspiring Spirit saith , and then there was no reason why the Synod should rather acquiesce to what Peter and Paul said who spake of no abstinence from blood and things strangled , then to what James said , Ergo , by the Apostles consequence , v. 24. ( we gave ●● such commandement , that you must bee circumcised , Ergo , you should not bee circumcised ) so this consequence is good , Peter and Paul speaking as Apostles gave no commandement in this Synod to abtaine from blood , Ergo , by the like consequence the Synod was not to command n● abstinence from blood , which consequence is absurd , Ergo , they command not here as Apostles , 2. The Synod should have been left in the midst to doubt , whether shall wee follow Paul and Peter , who speake and command n● abstinence from blood and things strangled , o● shall wee follow James , who commandeth to abstaine from blood and things 〈◊〉 , for all here command as immediatly inspired Apostles , and what the Apostles judge lawfull and command as Apostles , that must the Churches follow , and what they command not , that by an immediatly inspiring Spirit they command not , as is cleare , v. 24. and that also must the Churches not follow , therefore I thinke we must say they did not here speak as Apostles .

12. These words , v. 24. Some who pervert your soules say , you must bee circumcised , and keep the Law , to whom wee gave no such commandement ) doe clearely hold forth what the Apostles as Apostles command in Gods worship that the Churches must doe , what the Apostles as Apostles command not , in Gods worship , that the Churches must not doe whence they teach , 1. That an Apostolicke commandement of any one Apostle without any Synod might have determined the question , to what use then doth a Synod conduce ? Ergo , certainly either the Synod was convened for no use , which is contrary to Gods Word , Act. 25. 2. 6. Act. 16. 4. 5. it served to resolve the controversie and edifie the Churches , Act. 16. 4. They delivered them the decrees , &c. 5. And so the Churches were established in the saith , and increased in number daily , or then the Synodicall commandement , and so the Synodicall spirit spoken of v. 28. must bee some other thing then the Apostolicall commandement , and the immediatly inspiring spirit . 2. The Apostles gave no positive commandement to keep Moses his Law as Apostles , nay nor to keepe any part of it , they did not as Apostles forbid , before this Synod , that the Gentiles should abstaine from blood , and things strangled , which were Mosaicall Lawes before this Synod , yet now they give a commandement to keepe some Mosaicall Lawes , in the case of scandall ; hence wee must either judge that now as Apostles they command in positive commandements the keeping of Moses his Law , contrary to what they say , for their not commanding to keepe Moses his Law is a commanding not to keepe it , ( observe this ) or then their commandement here is but synodicall and so far binding as the case of scandall standeth in vigor , which certainly a Synod may command , and one Church may injoyne , by way of counsell , to another , for otherwise as Apostles forbidding scandall , which is spirituall homicide , they forbid also eating of blood , in that case when it stood indifferent . 3. The Apostles saying , To whom wee gave no such commandement , they clearely insinuate that their commandement as Apostles de jure , should have ended the controversie , but now for the edification and after-example of the Churches they tooke a Synodicall way .

13. The way of the Apostles speaking seemeth to mee Synodicall , and not given out with that divine and Apostolicall authoritie , that the Apostles may use in commanding : it is true , they use lovely and swasory exhortations in their writing , but this is a 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 a decree , not an exhortation , now James saith , 1● . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is set downe as his private opinion , with reverence to what Peter and Paul saith , and v. 7. Peter when many had disputed and spoken before him , standeth up and speaketh , and v. 12. Barnabas and Paul , after the multitude is ●●nt doth speake , which to mee is a Synodicall order , and the whole Synod , v. 28. say , It seemed good to us .

They answer . 1. Consociated Churches have some power in determining of dogmaticall points , but this is no power of jurisdictim .

The seventh Proposition to which almost all the Elders of New England agreed , saith ; The Synod bath no Church-power , but the cause enimeth with the Church . Corpus cum causa , the Church-body , and the cause which concerneth the Church-body , doe remaine together , ●nd therefore quaestio defertur ad Synodum , causa manet penes eccleiam , the question is brought to the Synod , the cause remaineth with the Church . Another Manuscript of Godly and learned Divines I saw , which saith ; That the ministeriall power of applying of the rules of the word and Canons to persons and things from time to time , as the occasions of the Church shall require , pertaineth to , and may be exercised by each particular Church , without any necessary dependance on other Churches , yet in difficill cases wee ought ( say they ) to consult with , and seeke advise from presbyteries and ministers of 〈◊〉 Churches , and give so much authoritie to a concurrence of judgements as shall , and ought to be an obligation to us , not to depart from any such resolutions , as they shall make upon any consideration but where in conscience , and hence our peace with God is apparently concerned .

Answ. I perceive , 1. That our brethren cannot indure that a Synod should bee called a Church ; but 1. I verily thinke that when Paul and Barnabas , Act. 15. 1 , 2. had much dissention with those who taught , you must bee circumcised after the manner of Moses , that the Church of Antioch resolved to tell the Church , that is the Synod , while as they fall upon this remedy , v. 2. They determined that Paul and Barnabas and certaine other of them , 〈◊〉 goe up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders , about this question , that is , that the Church of Antioch , ( when the subver●ers of soules would not heare their brethren of Antioch ) did tell the Synod convened at Jerusalem , that is , according to our ●viours order , Ma●●● . 18. 17. they did tell the Church : and my reason is , if the Church at Antioch could not satisfie the con●c●en●es of some who said , you must bee circumcised , else you cann●x in saved , they could not , nor had they power , in that cast not to goe on , but were obliged to tell the Synod , that is , the Church , whom it concerned as well as Antioch : for if they had sent the matter to the Synod as a question , not as a cause proper to the Synod , or Church ; then when the Synod had resolved the question , the cause should have returned to the Church of Antioch , and been determined at Antioch , as in the proper court , if that hold true , the question is deferred to the Synod , the cau●e remaineth with the body , the Church ; but the cause returned never to the Church of Antioch , but both question and cause was determined by the Synodicall-Church , Act. 15 v. 22. 23 , 24. and the determination of both question and cause ended in the Synod , as in a proper court , and is imposed as a commandement and a Synodicall Canon , to bee observed both by Antioch , v. 25 , 26 , 27 , 28 , 29. and other Churches , Act. 16. 4 , 5. Ergo , either the Church of Antioch lost their right , and yet kept Christs order , Matth. 18. 15 , 16 , 17. or the question and cause in this case belongeth to a Synod . 2. It is said expresly , ● . 22. It pleased t● Apostles , Elders , and the whole Church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch , &c. What Church was this ? the whole Church of ●●leevers , or the fiaternitie at Jerusalem ; ( say our brethren ) but with leave of their godlinesse and learning no , say ● . 1. What reason that the Church of all beleevers men and women of Jerusalem , should de jure , have beene present to give either consent or surfrage there : because it concerned then practise and conscience , but I say it concerned as much , if not more , the conscience and practise of the Church of Antioch , if not more , for the cause was theirs ( say our brethen ) and cause ad corpus ( say they ) quaestio ad synodum , and it concerned as much the practise and conscience of all the Churches , who were to observe these decrees , Act 16. 4. 5 Act. 21. 25. yet they were not present . If the multitude of ●●leevers of Jerusalem was present , because they were 〈…〉 to the Synod , whereas Antioch & other 〈…〉 were nor off , were not present , but in their commissioners , then I say the Church ●● the multitude of Jerusalem , whose commidic●●●s were here 〈◊〉 ; I say the multitude was present ●uely de 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 nor was there more law for their presence , then ●or all other Churches , who also in conscience were obliged to obey the councells determinations : but I , deare a warrant that the fact of the Synod , such as was sending of the decrees and Commissioners with the decrees to Antioch , should bee ●●●●ibed to the multitude of beleevers at Jerusalem , who by no Law of God were present at the Synod , and by no Law of God 〈◊〉 more consent then the Church of Antioch , and were present 〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and by accident , because they dwelt in the 〈◊〉 where the Synod did sit , therefore say I , the 〈◊〉 Church in the whole Synod . 2. By what Law can Jerusalem a sister Church have influence or consent de jure , in sending binding Acts , as these were , as is cleare , v. 28. Ch. 16. 4 , 5. Ch. 21. 25. to the Church of Antioch ? for this is an authoritative sending of messengers , and the Canons to the Church of Antioch , as is evident , v. 2 2. 3. It is utterly denied that the Church of Jerusalem , I meane the multitude of beleevers , could meet all at one Synod . 4. The word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , v. 12. which is said to hold their peace , is referred to the Apostles and Elders met Synodically , v. 6. and is not the multitude of beleevers . 5. Where are these who are called Elders , not Apostles , they are ever distinguished from the Apostles , as Act. 15. 2. v. 6. v. 22. Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18. 25. ●are is no reason that they were all Elders of Jerusalem , for 〈◊〉 can Elders of one sister Church impose Lawes , burdens , ●28 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 decrees , Ch. 16. 4. upon sister Churches ? or h●w can they pen canonicall Scripture joyntly with the Apostles ? Some of our brethren say so much of those degrees , that they obliged formally the Churches as Scriptures doe oblige : the learned Junius saith well , that the Apostles did nothing as Apostles where there was an ordinarie and established Eldery●● in the Church ; therefore those Elders behoved to bee the 〈◊〉 of Antioch , for Act. 17. v. 2. 〈…〉 Commissioners were 〈◊〉 from Antioch then Paul and 〈…〉 . I thinke also the Churches of Cyria and 〈◊〉〈…〉 there , as well as Antioch , and de jure , 〈…〉 should have beene there ; The case was theirs every way the same with the Church of Antioch , and their soules subverted , v. 24. 6. Those who are named v. 22. Apostles , Elders , and the whole Church are called v. 25. Apostles , and Elders , and Brethren , and elsewhere alwayes Apostles and Elders ( Elders including brethren , or the whole Church , v. 22. of some chosen men , and brethren ) as Act. 13. 2. v. 6. Ch. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18. 25.

2. I desire to try what truth is here , that this Synod but power and authoritie in points dogmaticall , but no Church-power ( saith the seventh proposition of the reverend and godly Brethren of New England ) and no power of jurisdiction , but the Church of Antioch had Church-power and power of jurisdiction to determine this cause and censure the contraveeners , as our Brethren say . But I assume , this Synod tooke this Church-power off their hand , and with the joynt power of their owne Commissioners sent from Antioch , v. 2. v. 22. 23. determined both cause and controversie , and it never returned to any Church-Court at Antioch , as is cleare , v. 25 , 26 , 27 , 28. Ergo , this Synod had a Church-power . 2. A power and authoritie dogmaticall to determine in matters of doctrine is a Church-power proper to a Church , as is granted by our brethren , and as wee prove from , Act. 20. 29. This is a part of the over-sight committed to the Eldership of Ephesus , to take heed to men rising amongst themselves speaking perverse things , that is , teaching false doctrine ; and if they watch over them , as members of their Church ( for they were v. 30. men of their owne ) they were to censure them . 2. If Pergamus bee rebuked , Re●el . 2. 14. 15. and threatned with the removing of their Candlesticke , because they had amongst them those who held the doctrine of Balaam , and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans , hated by Christ himselfe , and did not use the power of jurisdiction against them ▪ then that Church which hath power dogmaticall to judge of doctrine , hath power also of jurisdiction to censure those who hold the false doctrine of Balaam , and v. 20. Christ saith to Thyatira . Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 because thou suff●●● that woman Jesabel , which calleth herselfe a Prophetesse , to teach and to sedu●e my servants to commit fornication , and to eate things sacrif●●d to Idols . Hence I argue , what Church hath power to try the false doctrin of Jesabel , and is blamed for not censuring her , but permitteth her to teach and to seduce the servants of God , hath also power of jurisdiction against her false doctrine : this poposition I take to bee evident in those two Churches of Pergamus and Thyatira . I assume : but this Synod , Act. 15. hath authoritie and power to condemne the false doctrine taught by subverters of soules , teaching a necessitie of circumcision , in the Churches of Syria , Cilicia , Antioch , &c. Act. 15. vers. 23 , 24. Therefore this Synod hath power of jurisdiction .

3. Every societie which hath power to lay on burdens as here this Synod hath , v. 28. and to send decrees to be observed by the Churches , as Act. 16. 4. and to send and conclude , that they observe no such thing , and that they observe such and such things , Act. 21. 25. by the power of the holy Ghost , conveened in an Assembly , 25. and judging according to Gods Word , as ● . 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , &c. these have power of juridiction to censure the contraveners : but this Synod is such a societie , Ergo , it hath this power . The Proposition is , Matth. 18. 18. If hee refuse to heare the Church , let him be to thee as a heathen and a publican ; nothing can bee answered here , but because this Synod commandeth onely in a brotherly way , but by no Church-power , therefore they have no power of jurisdiction . But with reverence of these learned men , this is , petitio principii , to begge what is in question ; for the words are cleare , a brotherly counsell and advise is no command , no 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , no decree which wee must observe , and by the observing whereof the Churches are established in the faith , as is said of these decrees , Act. 16. 4 , 5. To give a brotherly counsell , such as Abigail gave to David , and a little maide gave to Namaan , is not a burden laid on by the commander ; but it is said of this decree , v. 28. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , It seemed good to the holy Ghost to lay no other burden on you .

Also we do not say that power of jurisdiction is in provinciall or nationall Synods as in the Churches , who have power to excommunicate ; for 1. this power of jurisdiction in Synods is cumulative , not privative ; 2. It is in the Synod quoad actus imperatos , potius quam act us elicitos , according to commanded rather then to elicit acts , for the Synod by an ecclesiasticall power added to that intrinsecall power of jurisdiction in Churches , doth command the Churches to use their power of jurisdiction rather then use it actually her selfe . Let me also make use of two propositions agreed upon in a Synod at New England . Their 3. proposition . The fraternitie have an authoritative concurrence with the Preshyteny , in judiciall Acts. 4. Proposition . The fraternitie in an Organicall body , actu subordinate , id est , per modum obedientiae , in subordination by way of obedience to the Presbytery in such judiciall Acts , 2 Cor. 10. 6. Now if here the whole Church of Jerusalem , as they say from v. 22. was present , and joyned their authoritative concurrence to these decrees , there was here in this Synod an Organicall body of eyes , eares , and other members , that is , of Apostles , Teachers , Elders and people , and so a formed Church by our brethrens doctrine , ●●gs , Paul and Barnabas , v. 2. being sent to this Synod by the Church of Antioch to complaine , were sent to tell the formed and organicall Churches , as it is Matth. 18 19 which is a good argument , if not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , as Aristotle saith , yet 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 2. If the Brethren here concurre as giving obedience to the Elders , and the Apostles doe here determine as Apostles and Elders , then the brothren in this Organicall body doe concurre to the forming of these decrees by way of obedience to the Elders ● Presbyters , and by the same reason the Elders concurre by way of obedience to the Apostles , for as the Elders as Elders and above the fraternitie , so the Apostles as Apostles are above the Elders : but then I much wonder how the acts are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders joyntly , Act. 16. 4. and how the Elders of Ierusalem doe ascribe those decrees to themselves , Act. 21. 25. and how all the assembly speake as assisted by the holy Ghost , Act. 15. 28. Shall wee distinguish where the Scripture doth not onely not distinguish , but doth clearly hold forth qualitie and an identitie ?

But some object , that the holy Ghost , v. 28. is the immediatly instiring Apostolick Spirit● and so the Apostles must here concurre in giving out those decrees as Apostles , not as ordinary Elders . 1. Is Peter and Paul alledge Scripture and testimonies of Gods Spirit in this Syned , as Elders , not as Apostles , then they reason in the Synod as falli●● men , and men who may erre , but that is impossible ; for if they 〈◊〉 Scripture , as men who may erre , the Scripture which they al●●dge 〈◊〉 be fallible .

Answ. Though the Apostles here reason as Elders , not as Ap●st●●s , I see no inconvenience to say they were men who might ●re , though as led with the holy Ghost , they could not erre in this Syned following the conduct of the holy Ghost , as is said , ● . 28. though the holy Ghost there bee onely the ordinary holy Ghost given to all the Pastors of Christ assembled in Gods name and the authoritie of Iesus Christ , yet in this Act and as led by this Spirit , they were not fallible , neither men who could erre : for I see not how ordinary beleevers as led in such and such Acts by the holy Ghost , and under that reduplication can erre , for they erre as men in whom there is flesh and a body of corruption , and therefore , though both Apostles and Elders , modaliter , might erre , as Logick saith ; Aposta●●s err are est possible , yet de facto , in this they could not erre , being led by the holy Ghost , v. 28. and the necessitie of their not erring is not absolute , but necessary by consequent , because the Spirit of God led them , as v. 28. But the reason is must , weake , if they might erre , Ergo , the Scripture they alledge might bee fallible : for though hereticks alledge Scripture , and abuse it , and make it to bee no Scripture , but their owne fancie , while as they alledge it to establish blasphemous conclusions , yet doth it no way follow that Scripture can bee fallible , or obnoxious to error , but onely that abused and a●● applved Scripture is not Scripture .

Object . 2. If ever the Apostles were led by an infallible spirit , 〈◊〉 to bee in a matter like this , which so much concerned the 〈◊〉 and consciences of all the Christian Churches amongst the Gen 〈◊〉 : E●go , in this Synod they could not bee led by a fallible spirit , but ●● an infallible , and so by an Apostolick Spirit .

Answ. I conceive the spirit which led both Apostles and Elders in this Synod , was an infallible Spirit , but Ergo , an immediatly inspiring and Apostolick Spirit , it followeth not ; yea the holy Ghost of which Luke doth speake , v. 28. as the president and leader of this first mould of all Synods , and so the most perfect Synod , is never fallible , no not in the meanest beleever , and it were blasphemy to say the holy Ghost in any can bee obnoxious to errour ; and I thinke de facto , neither Apostles nor Elders could erre in this Synod , because , de fact● , they followed the conduct of the holy Ghost , without any byas in judgement ; but it followeth not , 1. that the men could not erre , because the holy Ghost leading the men could not erre , as wee answer Papists who produce this same argument to prove that generall councells , and so the Church must be infallible . 2. It followeth not , Ergo , this holy Ghost was that immediatly inspiring and Apostolick Spirit leading both Apostles and Elders , which is the question now in hand .

Object . 3. This is a patterne of all lawfull Synods , then may all lawfull Synods say ; It seemed good to the holy Ghost , and to us : if therefore the men might erre , the leader , to wit , the holy Ghost might erre , which is absurd .

Answ. It followeth onely that all lawfull Synods should so proceed , as they may say , It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us , and there is a wide difference betwixt Law and Fact , all are lawfull Synods conveened in the name and authoritie of Christ , and so by warrant of the holy Ghost speaking in his Word ; but it followeth not ( as Papists inferre , and this argument proveth ) that therefore all which de facto , those lawfully assembled Synods doe and conclude , that they are the doings and conclusions of the holy Ghost , and that in them all , they may say , It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us . 2. The consequence is false and blasphemous , that if all lawfully conveened Synods may not say , It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us , that therefore the holy Ghost is fallible , and may erre , but onely that men in the Synod following their owne Ghost , and spirit , can say no more but , it seemed good to our Ghost and spirit , and cannot say , it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us : for an ordinary Pastor lawfully called and preaching sound doctrine in the power and assistance of Gods spirit doth speake in that act from the holy Ghost , and yet because in other acts , wherein with Nathan and Samuel hee may speake with his owne spirit , see with his owne eyes and light , it followeth not that he is infallible , or that the holy Ghost is infallible .

Object 4 Is the Apostles did not conclude in this Synod , what they 〈…〉 an Ap s●a ●●k spirit , it shall follow that the holy Ghost 〈…〉 15. 28. is not that same holy Ghost of which Peter 〈◊〉 , 2 Pet. 1. 21. But holy men of God spake as they were moved 〈◊〉 Ghost , and if so , that holy Ghost which spake in the Pro 〈◊〉〈◊〉 not also speake in the Apostles .

Answ. I see no necessitie of two holy Ghosts , 1 Cor. 12. 4. Now 〈◊〉 ●●●●ersities of gifts , but the same Spirit , there be divers acts of the same holy Ghost , and I willingly contend that the Synodicall acts of Apostles and Elders in this Synod , though comming from the holy Ghost assisting them as Elders in an ordinary Synod , v. 28. are different from the acts of that same holy Ghost as immediatly inspiring the Prophets and Apostles in prophecying and penning canonick Scripture ; and yet there bee not two holy Ghosts , for Paul did not beleeve in Christ by that same spirit which immediatly inspired him and the rest of the Apostles and Prophets to write canonick Scripture . ● meane it is not the same operation of the Spirit , because Paul by the holy Ghost given to all the faithfull as Christians , and not given to them as canonicall writers , or as Apostles or immediatly inspired Prophets doth beleeve in Christ , love Christ , contend for the prise of the high calling of God , as is cleare Rom. ● . 37 , 38 , 39. 1 Cor. 2. 12. 16. Phil. 3. 13. 14. 1 Cor. 9. 25. Yea Paul beleeveth not in Christ as an Apostle , but as a Christian , and yet hee beleeveth by the grace of the holy Ghost ; but ●● followeth not that the same spirit which immediatly inspired the Prophets doth not immediatly inspire Paul as an Apostle , and all the rest of the Apostles .

Object . 5. These decrees , Act. 16. 4. are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders , but if the Apostles in giving out these decrees gave 〈◊〉 as ordinary Elders , not as Apostles , then the sense of the words , Act. 16. 4. should bee , that they were the decrees of the Elders and of the Elders , which is absued .

Answ. It followeth onely that they are the decrees of the Apostles who in that give them out as Elders , and as a part of the ordinary established Elders of Jerusalem .

Whence if Christ promise the holy Spirit to lead his Apostles in all truth , hee promiseth also the holy Spirit to all their successors , Pastors , Teachers and Elders , not onely conveened in a Congregationall-Church , but also in a Synod , as hee maketh good his promise here , Act. 15. 28. and whereas the holy Ghost commandeth in a Synod of Apostles and Elders who are lawfully conveened , by our brethrens confession , and speaketh authoritatively Gods Word by the holy Ghost , Act. 15. 28. they cannot speake it as a counsell and brotherly advise onely , for that a brother may doe to another , a woman to a woman , Abigail to David , a maide to Naaman : wee desire a warrant from Gods Word , where an instituted societie of Pastors and Elders conveened from sundry Churches , and in that Court formally consociated and decreeing by the holy Ghost , as Act. 15. 28. against such and such heresies , shall bee no other then a counsell and advise , and no Church-commandement , nor binding decree backed with this power : Hee that despiseth you , speaking by the holy Ghost , the Word of God , despiseth mee , and whether doctrines , or canons concerning doctrine , comming from a lawfull Court , conveened in Christs name , have no ecclesiasticall power of spirituall jurisdiction to get obedience to their lawfull decrees ; for if every one of the suffrages of Elders bee but a private counsell having onely authoritie objective from the intrinsecall lawfulnesse of the thing , and no authoritie officiall from the Pastors , because Pastors , then the whole conclusion of the Synod shall amount to no higher rate and summe then to a meere advise and counsell . If it bee said , that when they are all united in a Synod , and speaking as assembled , Act. 15. 25. and speaking thus Assembled by the holy Ghost , v. 28. the authoritie is more then a counsell , yet not a power of Church-jurisdiction . Then 1. give us a warrant in Gods Word , for this distinction . 2. Wee aske whether this authoritie being contemned , the persons or Churches contemnibg it , bee under any Church-censure , or not ; if they bee under a Church-censure , what is this but that the Synod hath power of censure , and so power of jurisdiction ? if you say non-communion is a sufficient censure . But I pray you spare mee to examine this ; 1. If the sentence of non-Communion bee a sentence of 〈◊〉 . it must proceed from a judicature that hath a 〈◊〉 of jurisdiction , but give mee leave to say as all Church - 〈◊〉 have and must have warrant in Gods Word , so must 〈◊〉 , such as non-communion , for the ordinary Church punishments , such as publike rebu●ing have warrant in the Word , as in 1 Tim. 5. 20. and excommunication , 1 Cor. 5. 4. 〈◊〉 1● . and the great Anathema Maranatha , 1 Cor. 16. 22. and forbearing to eate and drinke with scandalous persons , 1 Cor. 5. 10 , 11. withdrawing from his company , 2 Th●s . 3. 14. and I pray you where hath the Word taught us of such a bastard 〈◊〉 - ensure , or if you will not allow it that name , a censure indicted by the Church or Churches , as is non-communion . May our brethren without Christs warrant shape any punishment equivalent to excommunication without Gods Word ? 〈◊〉 they may as well without the Word mould us such a censure as excommunication : if they say , separation warrenth this censure of non-communion . But 2. By what Law of God can an equall give out a sentence of non-communion a 〈◊〉 an equall , an equall cannot as an equall punish , when a Christian denieth followship to another because hee is excommunicated , hee doth not punish as an equall , for the punisher in this case denying fellowship to the excommunicated doth 〈◊〉 an equall , but as having authoritie from the Church , who hath given this commandement in the very sentence of communication . 1 Cor. 5. 4. compared with v. 10 , 11. Separation under a great controversie , and denyed in many cases ●● the way of those who are more rigid therein , even by our 〈◊〉 .

2. Christ , Matth. 18. 15 , 16. will not have any brother , who 〈◊〉 but private authoritie and no Church-authoritie over a bro●●●● 〈…〉 non habet potestatem ) to presently renounce 〈◊〉 give up all communion with his brother , though hee bee 〈◊〉 before two or three witnesses , and inflict on him the sentence of non-communion , while hee first tell the Church , and non-communion is inflicted on no man as if hee were a heathen

〈◊〉 ( to speak no thing of delivering to Satan ) while hee ●● conveened and judicially sentenced before the Church ; 〈◊〉 our brethrens sentence of non-communion is in inflicted by an equall Church upon a ●●ster Church in a meere p●●●● way , and by no Church-proces .

4. Non-communion , if it bee warranted by the law of ●●ture , as communion of equalls is , yet should wee not bee refused of the like favour , when wee plead that the Law of nature pleadeth for combination and communion of joynt authorities of s●s●er-Churches , in one presbytery : for if non-communion of Churches bee of the law of nature , so must communion of Churches , and authoritative communion , and authoritative and judiciall non-communion , by natures law must be as warrantable upon the same grounds .

They 6. Object . ● the Apostles , were in this Synod as ordinary Elders th●n , The Synod might have censured , and in case of obs●inacie excommunicated the Apostles which were admirable .

Answ. For re●ukeing of Apostles wee have against Papists a memorable warrant in Paul , Gal. 2. withstanding Peter to ●ce face , and Peter his giving an account , Act. 11 1 , 2 , 3. to the Church of Jerusalem of his going in to the Gentiles , which Parker acknowledgeth against Papists and Prelats to bee a note of Peters subjection to the Church . Papists say it was Peters humilitie ; other Papists say Peter gave but such a brotherly account to the Church , such as one brother is oblieged to give to another : also all our Divines , and those Papists who contend that the Pope is inferiour to universall councels . doc with good warrant alledge that by Matth. 18. Peter is subjected to the Church-censures , if hee sinn against his brother , and therefore we doubt not , but the Church hath , jus , law to excommunicate the Apostles , in case of obstinacie , and would have used this power i● Judas had lived now when the power of excommunication was in vigor ; but wee say withall , de facto , the su●position was unpossible in respect that continued and habituall obstinacie , and flagitious and at●ocious scandals deserving excommunication , were inconsistent with that measure of the holy Spirit bestowed upon those Catholick Organs and vessels of mercy : but this exempteth the Apostles from act all excommunication , de facto , but is our brethren ex●●pt them , a jure , from the Law , they transforme the Apostles into Popes , above all Law , which wee cannot doe , Apostolick eminencie doth 〈…〉 neither Peter nor Paul to bee above either the 〈…〉 the 〈◊〉 Law , or the positive Lawes gi 〈…〉 One doth wittily say on these 〈…〉 Matth. 8. 15. The Pope is either a 〈…〉 if hee bee a brother offending , 〈…〉 complaine of him to the Church , 〈…〉 bee no brother , there 's an end 〈…〉 his father , and never after this 〈…〉

〈…〉 in a Synod as Apostles , doth not 〈…〉 in Apostolick acts could not use Sy 〈…〉 others ; 1. Because Daniel , 9. 2. 〈…〉 understood by books the num 〈…〉 Lord came to Jeremiah the 〈…〉 Paul . 1 Cor. 1. 1. and Timothi 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 , 1 Thess. 1. 1. and 3. The 〈…〉 , and yet ● oph●ts and Apostles were immedi 〈…〉 which they ●●ote and spake .

Answ. 1. Daniel ●●d the Prophecie of Jeremiah , and the Pro 〈◊〉 the books of Moses , and the Apostles read the old Testament , 〈◊〉 and Paul read ●eathen Poets , and citeth them , Act. 17. 〈◊〉 . Ti● . 1. 12. and maketh them Scripture .

2. But the question is now , if as Prophets and immediatly in●●● Prophets and Apostles they did so consult with Scripture which they reade , as they made any thing canoni●k Scripture upon 〈◊〉 medium , and formall reason , because they did read it , 〈◊〉 it out of bookes , and not because the immediate i●●piration of the holy Ghost taught them , what they should 〈◊〉 canonick Scripture . Suppone a sentence of a ●eathen 〈◊〉 suppone this , that Paul left his cloake at Tro●s , not the ●●●wledge of sense , not naturall reason , not experience , none ●● these can bee a formall medium , a formall meane to make scripture but as , ( thus saith Jehovah in his word ) is the formall reason why the Church beleeveth the Scripture to be the Word ●● God , so the formall reason that maketh Prophets and Apostles to put downe any truth , as that which is formally canonicall scripture , whether it bee a supernaturall truth , as , the 〈◊〉 was made flesh , or a morall truth , as , Children obey your 〈◊〉 , or a naturall truth , as The Oxe knoweth his owner , or an experienced truth , as make not friendship with an angry 〈◊〉 a truth of heathen moralitie , as , mee are the off-spring of God , or a truth of sense , Paul lest his clo●ke at T●oas , I say the 〈◊〉 , formall reason that maketh it divine and Scripturall truth is the immediate inspiration of God , therefore though 〈◊〉 learned by bookes that the captivitie should indure seventi . yeares , yet his light by reading made it not formally Scripture , but Daniels putting it in the Canon by the immediat acti●r , impulsion , and inspiration of the holy Spirit ; and though Matthew did read in Esaiah , A Virgin shall conceive and beared Sonne , yet Matthew maketh it not a part of the New Testament , because Esaiah said it , but because the holy Ghost did imdiatly suggest it to him , as a divine truth : for a holy man might draw out of the Old and New Testament a Chapter of orthodox truths , all in Scripture words , and beleeve them to bee Gods truth , yet that Chapter should not formally bee the Scriptur . of God , because though the Author did write it by the light of faith , yet the Propheticall and Apostolicall spirit did not suggest it and inspire it to the author . I know some School● . Papists have a distinction here . They say there bee some sepernaturall truths in Scriptures , as predictions of things that tall out by the mediation of contingent causes , and the supernaturall mysteries of the Gospell , as that Achab shall bee killed in the wars , the Messiah shall bee borne , &c. Christ came to 〈◊〉 sinners , and those were written by the immediatly inspiring Spirit : others were but historicall and naturall truths of fact , as that Paul wrought miracles , that hee left his cleake at Troas , and these latter are written by an inferior spirit , the assisting , not the immediatly inspiring Spirit , and by this latter spirit ( say they ) much of Scripture was written ; and from this assisting Spirit commeth the traditions of the Church ( say they ) and the decrees of Popes and councells ; and this holy Spirit though infallible , may and doth use disputation , consultations , councells of Doctors , reading ; but wee answer that what counsells determin by an assisting spirit is not Scripture , nor yet ●m-ply infallible , nor doth Daniel advise with Jeremialis writing what hee shall put downe as Scripture , nor Paul with Sos●h●●●● , with Timothy and Silvamus , what hee shall write as Canonick Scripture in his Epistles , for then as the decrees of the coun 〈◊〉 at Jerusalem are called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders and this decree which commeth from the Apostles and Elders assem●led with one accord , and speaking with joynt suffrages from the holy Ghost , v. 7 , 8 9 , 10 , &c. v. 28. as collaterall authors of the decree , is the conclusion of Apostles and Elders ; so also should the proph●cie of Daniel , at least the first two verses of the ninth chapter , bee a part of Daniel , and a part of Jeremi●hs prophecie , and Pauls Epistles to the Corinthians should bee the Epistle of Paul and S●sthe●es , and his Epistles to the Colossians , and Thessah●ian● , the Epistles of Paul , of Timothy , of Silvanus , whereas Sosthenes , Timothy , Silvanus were not immediatly inspired collaterall writers of these Epistles with Paul , but onely joyners with him in the salutation .

The erring and scandalous Churches are in a hard condition , if they cannot bee edified by the power of jurisdiction in presbyteries .

Object . But it never or seldome in a century falleth out , that a Church is to bee excommunicated , and Christ hath provided Lawes for things onely that fall out ordinarily .

Answ. It is true , wee see not how an whole Church can bee formally convented , accused , excommunicated , as one or two brethren may bee , in respect all are seldome or never deserted of God to fall into an atrocious scandall , and wilful obstinacie , yet this freeth them not from the Law : as suppose in a Congregation of a thousand , if five hundreth bee involved in libertinisme , are they freed , because they are a multitude , from Christs Law ? or from some positive punishment by analogie answering to excommunication ? 2. The Eldership of a Congregation being three onely , doth not seldome scandalously offend , and are they under no power under heaven ? The people may withdraw from them saith the Synod of New England , what then ? so may I withdraw from any who walketh inordinately , 2. Thes. 3. 14. 15. (3) It is not well said that Christ giveth no Lawes for sinnes that seldome fall out . What say you of Anathema Maranatha , 1 Cor. 16. 22. to bee used against an Apostate from the faith , and against such as fall into the sinne against the holy Ghost ? I thinke visible professors capable both of the ●nne and the censure , yet I thinke it falleth seldome out , it fell seldome but that an Apostle was to bee rebuked , ha● Paul then no law to rebuke Peter . Gal. 2.

Object . 2. A Synod or presbytery may pr●nounce the d●●dfull sentence of non-communion against persons and Churches 〈…〉 .

Answ. But I aske , where is the power , and institution from Christ , that one private man , as hee may counsell his brother , so hee may by our brethrens grounds , pronounce this sentence .

Object . 3. One private man may not doe it , to a whole Church , ●● a classicall Presbytery and a Synod hath more authoritie over him , then hee hath over them .

Answ. One private man may rebuke another , yea bee may plead with his mother the whole Church , that hee liveth in , for her whoredomes , Hos. 2. 2. But if hee justly plead and his mother will not heare , may hee not separate ? Our brethren of New England , I thinke , shall bee his warrant to separate ; for their sixth Synodicall proposition saith , the fraternitie , and people are to separate from the Eldership , after they refuse wholesome counsell . Now what Scripture warranteth twenty to withdraw and separate , shall also warrant ten , and five , and one , for no reason that if twentie bee carelesse of their salvation in the dutie of separation , and shall not separate , that one man shall not separate ; because a multitude doth evill , I am not to doe evill with them .

Object . 4. But a Synod or a classicall presbytery hath more 〈◊〉 and authoritie , then one private man , or one single Congregation . 1. Because they are a company of Elders , to whom , as to the Priests of the Lord , whose lips should preserve knowledge , the ●●yes of knowledge , and consequently a power and Synodicall authoritie is given , though they have no power of jurisdiction . 2. Because as a private mans power is inferiour to a Pastors , so is the power of classicall and Synodioall meeting of Elders above a man , or a single congregation ; and a Synod , in dogmaticall power , ariseth so higher then these , ●● divine institution doth fall upon it .

Answ. The power of order and the key of knowledge doth elevate a Pastor , whose lippes doth preserve knowledge , above a private Christian , yea as I conceive above a multitude of beleevers ; but I would know if a Synods dogmaticall power bee above the power of single congregations ; I thinke it is not , by our brethrens ●enents , for they say expresly a a Church . government . Answ. to qu. 14. pag. 43 , 44. that every particular 〈…〉 , jus , to decide dogmaticall points , and this ●ight the Church of Antioch had , Act. 15. and laboured to end that 〈…〉 in her selfe , which sheweth that they had right and ● we , but they had not habilitie , and therefore in that case , they 〈…〉 , light and advise from other Churches , and they say b b lb Answ. ●● q. 18. pag. 64 So Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herlo , c. 2. The c●niociation of Churches into classes and Synods , wee 〈◊〉 to bee lawfull , and in some cases necessary ; as namely in things 〈…〉 not peculiar to one Church , but common to all . And likewise when a Church is not able to end any matter , that concernes onely themselves , the● they are to seek advise & counsell from neighbour Churches : hence the power of Synods is only by way of counsel and advise , & a Pastors advise is but an advise , & he giveth not his advise , virtute 〈◊〉 , as he is a Pastor , for then his advise should bee pastorall and auth●●itative , and proceeding from the power of order , though not from the power of jurisdiction ; hee onely giveth his advise as a gifted and inlightned man , and so , to my poore knowledge , two hundreth , five hundreth holy and learned Pastors determining in a Synod any dogmaticall point , they sit all there not as in a court , not as Pastors , for then their Decrees should have pastorall authoritie , and some power formally ministeriall to determine , yea and to sway , in a ministeriall way , by power of the keyes of knowledge , all the inferiour Churches , whom the decree concerneth , even as the Eldership of Perg●mus , which to our brethren is a congregationall Church , doth decree by the dogmaticall power of the keyes of knowledge that the doctrine of Balaam is a false doctrine , therefore they sit there as gifted Christians , and so have no Church-power more then a private brother or sister of the Congregation hath toward , or over another : for though a multitude of counselling and advising friends be safer and more effectuall to give light , then a counselling friend , yet are they but a multitude of counselling friends , and the result of all counselling and advising men doth never rise higher then a counsell and advise , and can never amount to the nature of a command : as twenty sch●●●-fellowes , suppose as ●udent and wise as the twentie masters of an Universitie , if these twentie schoole-fellowes give their advise and counsell 〈◊〉 a weightie businesse that concerneth the practise and obedience of all the students , the result of their counsell and advise can never bee more then an advise , and cannot amount to the same determination of the twentie masters of the Universitie , the result of whose determination is a soveraigne commandement and an authoritative and judiciall decree and statute to all the whole Universitie . 2. Whereas these Godly brethren say the power of Synods in things which belong to particular Churches is but a counsell and advise , they should have told their mind , whether or no the Synod hath more then advise and counsell in things that are not peculiar to one Church , but common to all the Churches in that bounds , for it would seeme that a Synod is a colledge of commanders in dogmaticall points , that doe equally concerne all Churches ( this should have beenespoken to ) though in those things which are peculiar to each particular Church , they bee but a colledge of friendly advisers and counsellers .

2. If a Synod bee but a societie of counsellers , they have no more any authoritative power to pronounce the sentence of non-communion , against any single Congregation or private man , then a private man or a single Congregation hath authoritative power to pronounce that sentence against them : but 3. You make the Synodicall power so above the power of private Christians in counselling , as that this Synodicall power is of divine institution , as you say , but let me aske what to doe ? to counsell and advise onely ? then that power of counselling in Abigail to David , in one brother or sister to another brother and sister is of divine institution , warranted by the Law of nature , Levit. 19. 18. by the Law of charitie , by the communion of Saints , Col. 3. 15. 1 Thes. 5. 14. Heb. 3. 13. Heb. 10. 24. Mal. 3. 16. Zach. 8. 21 , 22 , 23. for there is a divine institution , for one brother to counsell and teach another . But if our brethren give a positive power to a Synod , to advise and counsell , which private Christians have not , then this Synodicall power shall not bee different from the power of private Christians gradually onely , as a lesser power to advise differeth from a greater power , but specifically and in nature . And indeed some of our brethren teach so , though I doubt if their brethren will returne them thankes ; for this way , which to me is doubtsome . For then the members of the Synod at Jerusalem , seeme to mee , to bee more then counsellers , and there must bee a positive institution by our brethrens grounds to warrant a power Synodicall sentially different from a Church-power , and essentially above it : for wee teach that because a congregation is a part of a classicall Church , and a classicall Church a part of a provinciall Church , that this power in Congregations , Presbyteries , and Synods differ onely gradually , in more or lesse extention , and by the way .

Whereas some derive all Church-power from a single congregation to presbyteries and classes , ascendendo , by ascending , Church-power in the Church intrinsecally , and not by other ascending or descending derived to any one part by another . others derive it from presbyteries to a Congregation , descendendo , yea and some from the Catholick visible Church to nationall assemblies , and from nationall assemblies to provinciall Synods , and from Synods to Presbyteries , from Presbyteries to Congregations ; I , with reverence of the learneder , doe here conceive , that there is no such cursory derivation to bee dreamed of ; but because the Catholick visible Church is the great organicall body whereof Christ Jesus God blessed for ever is head and King , & it is to●um integrale , therefore there is no derivation either by climbing up staires , or going downe , but Jesus Christ hath communicated his power to this great politicall body , and all its parts immediatly ; to a Congregation hee hath given , by an immediat flux from himselfe , a politicall Church power intrinsecally in it , derived from none but immediately from Jesus Christ , and the object of this power is those things that concerne a Congregation ; and that same head and Lord hath given immediatly an intrinsecall power to the Presbytery , in things that are purely classicall , and that without either the intervening derivation of either a Congregation that is inferior to the Presbytery , by ascending , or without any derivative flux of a Synodicall , nationall or Catholick visible Church , by descending ; and the like immediatly conveyed power politicall commeth from this glorious head to a Synodicall , or nationall , or the Catholick visible Church , and the reason is , the very nature of the visible Church which is totum integrale , a great integrall intire body , now we know that life commeth to the thighes immediatly from the soule , neither by derivation from the feet and legs , by way of ascending , nor yet from the armes , brea●s , and shoulders , by descending . I deny not but here there may bee in other considerations , some order ; as , if you aske which is t●● first Church ; I answer with these distinctions of primatus , firstnesse .

1. The first Church , by way of constitution , is a congregation , Constitution and Intention . in the family of Adam and E●● .

2. The first Church , by way of divine intention , is the Catholick Church .

Hence secondly , The first Church , by generation , or the order of generation , and so the lesse perfit , is a Congregation , and here is an ascension still from the part to the whole , from a Congregation to a Presbytery , from thence to a provinciall Church , from thence to a nationall , from thence to the Catholick Church .

And the first Church by way of perfection , is that Catholick Queen Generation and Perfection . and Spouse which Christ is to present to the Father , without sp●● or wrinkle , and all parts are for this perfect whole , all the ministery , ordinances , the dispensation of the worke of redemption , Christ , his death , resurrection , intercession , &c. are for this as the end , the perfectum totum , Ephes. 5. 25 , 26. Ephes. 4. 11. 12. 13. 1 Cor. 15. 23 , 24.

Hence thirdly , if wee regard the order of operation ; The Congregation Exercise of power , and power it selfe . is primum movens , and primum operans , for all the motions of the Catholick-Church beginneth at the inferior wheeles and at the lower spikes , if a generall councell bee to inact any thing , motions must begin at the single Congregation at Antioch , at Jerusalem , and from thence ascend to a Preshytery , and from thence a nationall Church is to send their Commissioners to act in a Catholick councell , though if wee looke to the power it selfe , it is intrinsecally in the whole and in every part of the Catholick Church .

The fourth distinction considerable here is , that wee are to regard either ,

1. The order of nature , Or 1. The order of the inhesion of this power . or 2. The order of time . Or 2. Of the reall derivation of 〈◊〉 power .

If wee respect the order of nature , the power , by order of nature , is given by Christ immediatly , first to the whole Catholick Church , as is proved before at length , and by this order of nat●●● inhereth first in the whole Catholick Church , as mans organized intire whole body is , by natures order , the first adequat and principall subject of life and the reasonable soule , not this ●● this part , but in regard of order of time , or reall derivation of 〈◊〉 , this whole power is immediatly conferred by Jesus Christ on the whole Catholicke visible Church , and to every part of it , and any reall derivation of power from one part of the Catholick Church to another by ascension or descension is not to bee dreamed of here . As Commissioners of cities and shires have from those cities and shires who choosed them a virtuall power Parliamentary , yet is it not formally a power Parliamentary while the Parliament receive them as formall members , and then , by Law of the State , there falleth on them a formally parliamentall power : so Commissioners have from their Churches which sent them , onely a virtuall or radicall power , but they have never a formally Synodicall power , by virtue of a divine institution , while they bee convened in Christs name Syn dically . It is true , the members of a generall councell derive their virtuall power to voyce , and conclude from the na●●●n●ll Church that sent them to the councell , but give me leave , this is but a derived power of membership making them fit to bee incorporated in a Synod , but being once incorporated , they have by their power of order , and by Christs immediate institution , a power immediatly given by Christ , in whose ●ames they conveene , to voyce and conclude as a formall coun●●● , and to say , It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us ; they cannot say , 〈◊〉 good to the Churches that sent us .

The 5. distinction is , that the power is considered either ●exercised ordinarily , or 2. occasionally . In regard of the ●●mer ordinary power is seated collaterally in the Congregation and Presbytery , in each according to its proportion of power , but because the power is compleater in the Presby●● , which is a compleat body , and lesse compleatly in the Congregation , which is lesse compleat , it is more principally seated in the Presbytery ; in regard of the latter Synods are the first subject of the occasionall Church-power , in things which ●e in common belong to many Presbyteries , or to a nationall - Church . But to returne , if the Synodicall power bee different in essence and nature and not gradually onely , from the counsell and advise of Christians , then , first , it is not a determination that bindeth , by way of counsell and brotherly advise onely , but under some higher consideration , which is as like a Church-relation of Church-power , as any thing can bee , seeing here bee Pastors acting as Pastors ; 2. formally gathered in a councell ; 3. speaking Gods Word ; 4. by the holy Ghost . But this shall bee against the Church-government of New England . a a Quest. 18. pag. 64. 65. 2. If it bee essentially different from an advise and councell and warranted by divine institution , why doe not our brethen give us Scripture for it ? for if they give us Act. 15. then can they not say that the Apostles in this Synod did determine and voyce as Apostles by an Apostolick , and immediatly inspiring Spirit , for the spirit Synodicall is a spirit imitable and a rule of pertually induring moralitie in all Synods , and must leade us , for an Apostolick spirit is not now in the world .

3. As they require a positive divine institution , for the frame of a Presbyteriall Church in power above a Congregation , and will not bee satisfied with the light of nature , which upon the supposall of a spirituall government instituted by Christ in a Congregation which is a part , may clearely , by the hand , lead us to the inlarging of that same spirituall government in the whole , that is , to a number of consociated Churches which are all interessed , as one common societie in a common government , so they must make out , for their Synod endued with dogmaticall power a positive divine institution .

4. We desire a warrant from the Word why a colledge of Pastors determining by the Word of God as Pastors having power of order and acting in a colledge according to that power , should not bee a formall and ordinary great Presbytery .

5. How can they , by our brethrens determination , exercise such pastorall acts out of their owne Congregations towards those Churches to which they have no pastorall relation , virtute potestatis ordinis ?

6. How can the wisedome of Christ , ( who provideth that his servants bee not despised , but that despisers in a Church way should bee censured , 1 Tim. 1. 19 , 20. ) cloth his messengers in a Synod with a power dogmaticall and deny all power of i●●●diction to them , upon the supposall that their determinations be rejected ? I feare there bee something under this , that none are to bee censured or delivered to Satan for heterodox opinions , except they erre in points fundamentall .

But farther it may bee made good that a power dogmaticall is not different in nature from a power of jurisdiction , for we read not of any societie that hath power to meet to make Lawes and decrees , which have not power also to backe their decrees with punishments : if the Jewish Synedry might meet to declare judicially what was Gods Law , in point of conscience , and what not , and to tie men to it , they had power to conveene and make Lawes , farre more may they punish contraveners of the Law , for a nomothetick power in a societie which is the greater power and is in the fountaine , must presuppose in the societie the lesse power , which is to punish , and the power of punishing is in the inferior judicature , so a nomothetick power ministeriall cannot want a power of censuring . It is true , a single Pastor may ministerially give out commandements in the authoritie of Christ , but hee cannot his alone censure or excommunicate the contraveners of those commandements , but it followeth well in an assembly hee hath power to censure and excommunicate , now here Pastors and Elders are in an assembly .

It is objected ; Pastors in a Synod have no jurisdiction as Pasters ; for what they doe as Pastors that they may doe there alone , and on ; of a Synod : but they doe not , nor cannot determine and give out Canons there alone , and they cannot there alone determine juridically ; therefore they doe not wholly and poorely as Pastors in relation to those Churches , give out these decrees , yet doe they not give out the decrees as privite men wholly , but in some pastor all relation , for Pastors as Pastors have something peculiar to them in all Churches whither they come to preach so as a speciall blessing followeth on their labours , though they be not Pastors in relation to all the Churches they come to , even as a Sermon on the Lords day is instamped with a more speciall blessing b●●●use of Gods institution imprinted on the day , then a Sermon preached in another day .

Answ. This argument is much for us , it is proper to acts of jurisdiction ecclesiasticall that they cannot bee exercised by one onely , but must bee exercised by a societie , now a Pastor as a Pastor his alone without any collaterally joyned with him exerciseth his pastorall acts of preaching and of administrating the Sacraments , but those who give out those decrees , cannot give them out Synodically , but in a Synod and Court-wayes as forensicall decrees , and so in a juridicall way , and because Pastors , whither so ever they come , doe remaine Pastors . 1. The Apostles are not in this Synod as Apostles , Secondly , nor yet as gifted Christians to give their counsell and advise ; nor , thirdly ( as this answerer granteth ) meerely as Pastors , then it must follow that , fourthly , they are here as such pastors conveened Synodically , by divine institution , and that this is the patterne of a Synod .

Object . 2. But there is no censuring of persons for scandalls in this meeting , because there is nothing here but a doctrinall declaration of the falsehood of their opinion who taught a necessitie of circumcision ; and that all is done by way of doctrine and by power of the Keyes of knowledge , not of jurisdiction , is cleare from the end of this meeting , Act. 5. 2. Paul and Barnabas were sent from the Church of Antioc● unto Jerusalem unto the Apostles and Elders , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , concerning this question , and v. 6. the Apostles and Elders came together to consider , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , of this matter , consideration of Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herle , c. 1. p. 8. questions being the end of the Synod is a thing belonging to doctrinal power meerely , so Mr. Mather .

Answ. 1. It is false that there is no censuring of persons here , for to say nothing that Peter accuseth those of the wrong side as personally present at the Synod , either being summoned or comming thither by appeale , v. 10. Now therefore why tempt ye God to put a yoake upon the necke of the Discip'es , &c. which reproofe comming from one man onely , cannot be called a Synodicall reproofe ; It is more then evident that the publick Synodicall censure of rebuke is put upon those who held and urged the necessitie of circumcision , and why not excommunication also in case of obstinacy ? for the Synodicall censure of a publick Synodicall rebuke is onely gradually different , not specifically from excommunication and both must proceed from one and the same power ? Now the Synodicall censure is evident in the Text , v. 24. certaine went out from us , ( so it is cleare they pretended they were in this point followers of the Apostles ) and Lorinus thinketh that some deemed them schismaticks .

2. They have troubled you with words ; Lorinus citeth the Sy 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 vedalacachum , they have terrified you , as if your salvation were not sure , except you keepe Moses his Law of ceremonies and the morall Law . 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , destraying by false arguments your soules , it is a word contrary to building up in sound knowledge ( as Aristotle taketh Aristot. 5. 〈◊〉 . text 31. the word ) saying that you must bee circumcised and keepe the Law . 4. They abused the name of the Apostles as having an Apostolick commandement , and so a divine warrant for their false doctrine , and therefore are they refuted as liars , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , whence it is cleare they did labour to prove a necessitie of circumcision not onely from the old Testament and an expresse divine Law , but also from the authoritie of the Apostles , which was manifestly false ; out of which I argue thus . If the Apostles doe not onely in a doctrinall way refute a false doctrine in this Synod , but also in a Church-way , and by a juridicall power rebuke and Synodically charge the authors , as sub●erters of soules , and liars , then they doe not onely use a meere doctrinall power in this Synod , but also a juridicall power : but the former is true : Ergo , so is the latter . 2. Observe two things in these obtruders of circumcision . First , the error of their judgement . It is more then apparent , that they had a heterodox and erroneous opinion of God and his worship , and the way of salvation , as is cleare , Act. 15. 1. And certaine men which came downe from Judea , taught the brethren , ( and said ) except yee bee circumcised after the manner of Moses , yee cannot bee saved . This doctrine is clearely refuted both by Peter v. 10. That yoake of the Law wee disclaime , there is a way of salvation without that yoake , v. 11. But wee beleeve that through the grace of the Lord Jesus , wee shall bee saved as they , and it is synodically refuted , v. 24. wee gave no such commandement , it is not the mind of us the Apostles of the Lord that you keepe Moses Law , as you hope to bee saved ; there was for this error in their judgement required a doctrinall or dogmaticall power , and this the Synod used . 2. Besides this erroneous opinion in their judgement , there was another fault and scandall that the Synod was to censure , to wit , their obtruding of their false way upon the soules and consciences of the Churches , as vers. 1 They taught the brethren this false doctrine . 2. That they wilfully and obstinately did hold this opinion , and raised a Schisme in the Courch , v. 2. wherefore Paul and Barnabas had no small 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , dissention , ( the word signifieth sedition which was raised by those who held that erroneous opinion ) and great disputation with them . 3. They laid a yoake upon the brethren , v. 10. and v. 7. They made great disputation against the Apostles , and v. 24. They troubled the brethren and perverted their soules . This was not simply an heterodox opinion which is the materiall part of a heresie , but had something of the formall part of an heresie , to wit , some degrees of pertinacie , of brutish and blind zeale , even to the troubling and perverting of the soules of the Churches , while as they would make disciples to themselves , and lead away soules from the simplicitie of the Gospell ; now the Synod doth not helpe this latter simply , in a Synodicall way , by a dogmaticall and doctrinall power , but by an authoritie Synodicall , and therefore they authoritatively rebuke them , as subverters of soules ; and whereas these teachers laid on an unjust yoake to keepe Moses his Law upon the Churches , v. 10. the Synod by their ecclesiasticall and juridicall authoritie doth free the Churches of that yoake , and they say in their decree . v. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us , ( not to lay the yoake of Moses his Law on you , as those who trouble you have done ) to lay upon you no greater burden , then these necessary things , &c. now if there had beene nothing to doe but to resolve the question , if this had beene the totall and adequat end of the Synod , in a meere doctrinall way to resolve the question , Whether must wee bee circumcised , and keepe the Law morall and ceremoniall of Moses , upon necessitie of salvation , as the argument of our brethren contendeth ; Peter , v. 10. 11. made a cleare issue of the question , We are saved by the grace of God , both ●●nes and Gentiles , and it is to tempt God to lay the yoake of the Law of Moses upon the brethren ; the resolving of that question is the end of the Synod , but not the adequat end , for here that , not onely the doctrinall power was to bee used , but beside that , 1. the schisme was to bee removed , and the authoritie of the Synod to bee used against the wilfulnesse and obstinacie of those obtruders of circumcision , in rebuking them as perverters of soules . 2. For the scandall which might have been taken if the Gentiles should have eaten blood and things strangled , and meats offered to idols , and therefore the Apostles and Elders behoved , as a conveened Synod to forbid a grievous scandall and a spirituall homicide against the Law of nature , to wit , that the Gentiles for feare of scandalizing weake . beleevers amongst the Jewes , should abstaine from the practise of some things at this time meerely indifferent in their nature , though not indifferent in their use , such as were to eate things offered to idols , things strangled and blood : and whereas our brethren , 3. Object , If the Apostles did any thing more then might have been done by private Pastors out of a Synod , it was meerely Apostolicall , and the Elders did but assent to the Apostles Apostolicall determination ; and every one did here , Apostles , Elders , and Brethren , more suo , Apostles as Apostles , Elders and Brethren as Elders and Brethren , after their manner as consenters to the Apostles , but other wayes it is a begging of the question , for to say the Apostles and Elders , rebuked Synodically the obtruders of circumcision , it s but said , because one Pastor might have rebuked those obtruders ; for the specification of actions must not bee taken from their efficient causes , but from their formall objects , therefore this is no good consequence , the Synod rebuked those obtruders , Ergo , the Synod rebuked them as a Synod , and by a power of jurisdiction , it followeth not , for Paul , Gal. 2. rebuked Peter ; Ergo , Paul had a power of jurisdiction over Peter . I thinke your selves will deny this consequence .

I Answer , 1. These two answers are contradictory , and sheweth that our brethren are not true to their owne principles , for sometime they say the Apostles gave out this decree as Apostles , and sometime there is nothing here done by a meere doctrinall power , such as Paul had over Peter , or one single Pastor hath over another , now it is sure that Paul had no Apostolick , power over Peter , and that one Pastor have not Apostolick power over another . 2. When our brethren say here that the Apostles as Apostles by an infallible spirit gave out this Decree , they doe in this helpe the Papists , as Bellarmine , Becanus , Gr●●rut , and in particular the Jesuit a a Lorinus com . in loc. Lorinus , who saith , decr●um authenticum cujus inspirator spiritus sanct● , and so saith b b Cornelius a Lap. in loc. Cornelius a lapide , visi●m est nobis inspiratis & decretis a Spiritu sanctus , therefore saith hee the councell cannot erre , and so c c Salmeron in loc. Salmeron and d d Cajetan in loc. Cajetan say , and expresly e e Stapleton in Antidot . Apost. inc . 15. v. 28. actor . Apost. Stapleton saith this Apostosack definition flowed from the instinct of the holy Ghost ; observandum ( saith Stapleton ) quanta habenda sit ecclesiae definienth authorit●s ; hence our brether here must yeeld either that all Synods are infallible , as Papists say , this Synod the patterne of all Synods being concluded by an Apostolick spirit could not erre , and so neither can councells erre , or they must with Socinians and Arminians say there is no warrant for Synods here at all . And certainly though wee judge our brethren as farre from Popery and Socinianisme , as they thinke wee detest Anti-Christian Presbytery , yet if this Synod bee concluded by an Apostolick spirit , it is no warrant to bee imitated by the Churches , and wee have no ground hence , for lawfull Synods . Whittakerus , Calvin , Beza , Luther , and all our Divines do all alledge this place as a pregnant ground not of Apostolick , but of ordinary and constant Synods to the end of the world ; and f f Diodatus in in ann. on the place . ac . 15. 28. Diodatus , good to the holy Ghost ) because they did treat of ecclesiasticall reders concerning the quietnes and order of the Church , wherein ecclesiasticall authoritie hath place , the Assembly used this tearme , it seemed good to us , which is not used , neither in articles of faith , nor in the commandements which meerely concerned the conscience : and to shew that authoritie was with holy reason and wisedome , there is added , and to the holy Ghost , who guided the Apostles in these outward things also , 1. Cer. 7. 25. 40.

2. If our brethren meane that the Elders and brethren were in this Apostolick and immediatly inspired Synodicall determination , not as collaterall penners of Scriptures joyned with the Apostles , but onely as consenters and as consenters by power of an ordinary holy Ghost working consent in them , more suo , according to their capacitie as ordinary Elders . 1. They yet more helpe the Papists because they must say onely Apostles , and so onely their successors ; the Prelates had definitive voices in this Synod , the Presbyters and Brethren did no more then Papists and Prelates say Presbyters did in generall councells of old , and therefore the Presbyter is to subscribe , Ego , A. N. Presbyter consentiens subseribo , whereas the Prelate subscribed ( say they ) Ego , A. B. Episcopus definiens subscribo ; wee crave a warrant in Gods Word to make an Apostle or a Prelate a Synodicall definer , having a definitive voyce , and the Elder Brother , or Presbyter to have a consultative voyce , for here all the multitude ( if there was a multitude present ) doe make Synodicall decrees by consulting and consenting , yea all the nation may come to a nationall Synod , and both reason , dispute , and consent , because matters of doctrine and government of the Church concerneth all , therefore all have an interest of presence , and all have an interest of reasoning ; and 3. by consequent all have an interest of consenting ; yea of protesting on the contrary , if the Synod determine any thing against the Word of God . If they say there is a threeford consent in this Synod , 1. an Apostolicall , 2. a second Synodicall agreeing to Elders as Elders , and a third , that of the people , or a popular ; What a mixt Synod shall this be ? but 1. then as the Epistle to the Tlxssalonians is called the Epistle of Paul , not the Epistle of Silvanus and Timotheus , though Silvanus and Timotheus did consent , so these ( dogmata ) or decrees should not be called the decrees of the Apostles and Elders , as they are called , Act. 16. 4. Act. 15. 6. Act. 21. 25. but onely the decrees of the Apostles ; seeing the Elders did onely consent , and had no definitive influence in making the decree , by this doctrine , as Silvanus and Timotheus were not joynt pen-men of Scripture with Paul .

3. When as it is said the specification of actions must not bee taken from the efficient cause , but from the formall object , and all that a done in this Synod might have beene done by a single Pastor .

I answer , wee doe not fetch the specification of this rebuke and of these decrees from the efficient causes , but from the formall object , for an Apostle might his alone have rebuked these obtruders of circumcision , and made this decree materialiter , for Paul did , more his alone then this , when hee wrote the E●istle to the Romans , but yet one Pastor could not have Synodically rebuked , and given out a decree formally Synodicall , laying an Ecclesiasticall tie on moe Churches then one , there is great ods to doe one and the same action formally , and to doe the same action materially , and I beleeve though actions have not , by good logick , their totall specification from their efficient cause , yet that ordinances of God as lawfull have their specification from the efficient causes in part our brethren cannot deny . For what made the difference betwixt Aaron his fire offered to the Lord , and Nadab and Abihu their strange and unlawfull fire , that they offered to the Lord , but that the on fire had God for its author , the other had men , and the like I say of Gods feasts , and the feasts devised by Jeroboam , else if a woman preach and administrate the Lords Supper in the Church , that preaching and sacrament administrated by her should not have a different specification and essence , if wee speake morally or Theologically , from that same very preaching and celebration of the Supper performed in the Church by a lawfull Pastor ; it is ( as I conceive ) of the essence of an action Synodicall ( I say not its totall essence ) that it cannot bee performed by one in a Church-way , and with an ecclesiasticall tie , but it must be performed by many , else it is not a Synodicall action , and it is true that Paul , Rom. 14. and 1 Cor. 8. 10. hath in substance the same Canon forbidding scandall , which is forbidden in this Canon prohibiting eating of meats offered to Idolls , and blood , in the case of scandall ; but ( I pray you ) is there not difference betwixt the one prohibition and the other ? yea there is , for , Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. 10. it hath undenyably Apostolick authoritie , here it hath onely Synodicall . 2. There it is a commandement of God , here it is a Canon of the Church . 3. There it commeth from one man , here from a colledge of Apostles and Elders conveened , and yet materially it is the same prohibition .

Object . 4. The Acts of this Synod are finaliter acts of government , because they are rules conducing for the governing of the Church , but formaliter , they are acts of dogmaticall power , and not formally acts of jurisdiction , for there is no rebuking of subverters of soules inordine to excommunication , no penall power is exercised here , sub poona , under the paine of excommunication , and therefore there an here no formall acts of government .

Answ. 1. The acts of Church-government finaliter , that is , government , because to prescribe rules and directive Lawes ( for they are not properly Lawes which the Church prescribeth , Christ is the onely Law-giver ) are formall acts of governing , and one power doth not make Lawes for governing the Church , and another power different in nature punish the contraveners . And what power disposeth and ordereth , the meanes doe also dispose and order the end ; Canons of the Church tending to the edification of the Church are meanes tending to the government of the Church , and I appeale to the judgement of our reverend brethren , if wee suppose that one single Congregation should doe all that this Synod doth , if they would not call it a formall governing of that particular Congregation : for example , in the Church of Pergamus , one ariseth and teacheth the doctrine of the Nicolaitans , suppose that fornication is indifferent is the eating of blood , and is no sinne ; the Angels of the Church of Pergamus preach against this doctrine , in private , they deale by force of arguments from Scripture , that it is a wicked doctrine , and destructive to holinesse , as Paul and Barnab as disputeth , Act. 15. 1. 2. with the obtruders of a necessitie of Circumcision , yet they prevaile not , now suppose this independent Church following the Apostle Pauls way , thinke good to convene a Synod or a parishionall assembly to determine Synodically that this is a wicked doctrine , and shall in their decree call the holders of this doctrine subverters of soules , and forbid fornication in their Synod , now supposing Pergamus to be a single Church in a remote Iland consociated with no neighbouring Churches , who could in reason deny that this Synodicall power so inacting were a power formally governing the Church of . Pergamus ? it is true , some of our brethren say , that it is even to us a received tenent that the power that disposeth of the meanes of governing doth not for that governe in respect that we teach that the classicall presbytery doth decree and in act , and the Congregation doth execute these Decreed , but I pray you doth this prove that the power ordering the meanes of governing is no formall act of governing ? yea the contrary is true , because the Congregation executing the acts of the classicall presbytery , as subordinat in that act to the classicall presbytery , & by their authority , therfore while they give out these acts or Canons , doe formally governe , that Congregation executing their acts , in this particular .

Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Mr. Herle , c. 1. p. 9. teach that there is a power of clearing truth dogmatically , and that 〈◊〉 ‑ 〈◊〉 , ultimately , where the controversie is ended , but they will have this ultimate power not in a Synod onely , but also in a Congregation . But 1. they seeme to make this dogmaticall power a Church-power , and the exercise thereof formally an act of Church-government , and so it must bee Church-power and Church-government in the Synod , as well as in the Congregation . 2. The last period and conclusion of the controversie cannot bee both in the Congregation , de jure , by right onely , and in the Synod by right onely , for two last powers cannot bee properly in two subordinate judicatures , for if Antioch appeale to a Synod , as they doc , Act. 15. 2. then Antioch is not the sole , last and ultimate and finall judge ; and 3. If the controversie concerne many Churches , as this doth , Act. 15. 2. 23. 24. I see not how a Congregation , except they transgresse their line , can finally determine it .

And here while as our brethren doe all edge that a Synod hath a power to decree , and make lawes , but hath no power at all to execute these Lawes or to punish the contraveners , but power of punishing is all in the single Congregation . ● . They tie all governing power to a punishing power , as if there were no other wayes to governe , but upon supposall of scandalls , whereas all Scripture and polliticians make a power of giving Lawes formally a governing power . 2. When one societie and Synod maketh the Lawes , and another must execute them and punish the contraveners , the single Congregation that punisheth , is more subjected by a truely prelaticall bondage , then if the Law-makers had onely the power of punishing the contraveners , at they onely have the power of making the Lawes . I take not here Lawes for Lawes properly so called , but for ministeriall directories having ecclesiasticall authoritie : and here in effect , our brethren lay truely a prelaticall bondage on the Churches of Christ , for they teach that a Synod may make a Law by a pastorall power , and that this Synod is an ordinance of Christ by Act. 15. and that as Prelates did , they send those Synodic●ll decrees to bee obeyed and put in execution by the Churches , and ordaine the contraveners to bee punished by the Churches , and here is a power above a power , and mandates for government sent by the Synod to the Churches to bee obeyed , and a Synod governing by Churches , this they call prelaticall in us .

But 3. there is no penall power here ( say they ) and nothing decerved to bee obeyed , sub paena , under the paine of excommunication , therefore no power of jurisdiction . But this consequence is justly denyed , for no politician , no reason in the world can say that all power of jurisdiction is included in the power of excommunication . What ? hath the Church a Church-power to threaten , and no Church-power to pardon the penltent ? I think if the Church as the Church , Matth. 18. receive a power from Christ to bind in heaven and earth , doth not Christ in that same patent give to her also a power to loose in earth and heaven ? and when hee saith , if bee refuse to beare the Church , let him be to thee ● aube●hen and publican ; doth hee not give to the Church a power to command ? if hee command to heare and obey the Church , hee must give a power of jurisdiction to the Church to command , and a power to command not penall onely , but promissorie also , to loose and absolve upon condition of prosessed repentance . Now suppose the Church make a Law , that theresurrection of the dead is a truth of God to bee beleeved , and professed , upon occasion that in the Congregation Hymeneus & Alexander den yeth that Article , in that very Commandement doctrinall the Church doth governe the whole Congregation , and exerciseth a power of formall governing , though in their act they say nothing of the censure of excommunication , to those who shall deny that Article of the resurrection , for ( I hope ) a simple sanction maketh a Law , though no penaltie bee expressed in it , and though there had beene in the Decree , Act 15. 28. an expresse punishment , this should , to our brethren prove no power of jurisdiction exercised by many , for this which is said , Gal. 1. 8. Though wee or an Angel from heaven preach unto you ( another Gospel ) then that which wee have preached let him bee accursed , and that 1 Cor. 9. 16. Woe unto mee if I preach not the Gospel , and many other threatnings in Scripture , though a punishment bee annexed expressely , cease not to bee meerely doctrinall , and are not threatnings importing formally any power of Church-jurisdiction , and therefore though mention should have beene made of a censure , if there bee not here a Synod . 2. Having power and authoritie from Christ . 3. Commanding by the holy Ghost , ( as these indeed are all here ) the name of censure should prove no power of jurisdiction .

Object . 5. The laying on of the yoake spoken of , v. 28. is a meer● , doctrinall yoake , and it importeth no more a poner of jurisdiction , then we can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision bad a power of jurisdiction , because they are said to lay on a yoake also , and to tempt God in so doing , vers . 10.

Answ. I retort this reason , for we can then no more conclude that the Apostles by an Apostolick authoritie layd on this yoake , then wee can conclude that the obtruders of circumcision did lay on this yoake , because they are said to lay on a yoake and to tempt God , v. 10. It is a most unequall reasoning to argue against a iust Synodicall power from a sinfull and unjust power , for these obtruders of circumcision had no lawfull power at all to lay a yoake on the Disciples , but sinned and tempted God in laying on that yoake , but it is not denyed by our brethren , but the Apostles and Elders had a lawfull power to lay on a yoake in this Synod , onely it is controverted whether it bee a meere dogmaticall or doctrinall power , or if it bee a power of jurisdiction , nay the obtruders of circumcision by neither of these two powers layd on a yoake upon the Dsciples .

Object . 6. These decrees which did no other wayes bind the Church of Jerusalem , then they did bind all the Churches of the world , cannot bee decrees of power of jurisdiction over the Church of Jerusalem , and over the Church of Antioch . But these decrees did no otherwise bind the Church of Jerusalem , then they did bind all the Churches of the world , for the decrees of Apostles and Elders at Jerusalem , Act. 6. 4 , 5. were sent to all the Churches of the world to bee observed , and seeing they could not as Synodicall Canons obliege all the Churches of the world , by an ecclesiasticall tie , because all the Churches of the world sent not Commissioners , and all the Churches of the world couldnot be represented in this Synod , but onely the Churches of Jerusalem and Antioch ; yea wee see not that this Synod is any more then the Church of Antioch seeking counsell from the sister Church at Jerusalem ; as one Church may advise another Church that is weaker in knowledge , in a matter of such difficultie , because the Apostles were at Ierusalem , and that 〈◊〉 . 1. The whole Canons are ascribed to the Church of Jerusalem onely , to the Apostles , Elders and the whole Church , Act. 15. 22. and Act. 15. 22. and Act. 16. 4 , 5. and Act. 21. 25. the Elders of Jerusalem take this act or canon to themselves . 2. It cannot be proven that the Churches of Syria and Cilicia had any commissioners he●● , farre lesse had all the Churches of the Gentiles , who yet are commanded to keepe those decrees by commissioners there , C. 15. 19. Act. 21. 25. Act. 16. 4 , 5. 3. It cannot bee proven that Antioch sent Elders to this meeting , but onely Commissioners , Act. 15. 2.

Answ. This answer is much contradicent to what our brethren other waies hold , for if it be a patterne of a sister Church , giving advise and counsell to another , this is imitable to the worlds end , and if the Canon come from the Apostles as Apostles it is not imitable .

2. That one sister Church can lay burdens on another , and give out 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , decrees to bee kept is unwarrantable ; now 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 as they are called by all that understandeth Greeke , are not friendly advises of brethren ; the Seventie Interpreters use the word , Daniel 6. 26. to expresse a Law made by Darius , Luke useth the word , c. 2. 1. saith a decree 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 came from Augustus Caesar to taxe all the World . 2. It is a graver businesse then we can thinke of , to beleeve that these who onely give advise and counsell , and must conveene in a Synod , as Apostles and Elders doe here , v. 23. (2) that they can say as it is v. 28. It seemed good to the holy Ghost and to us to lay no other burden on you then t●●se necessary things , for a counsell or advise can never amount to the burden imposed by the holy Ghost speaking in a Synod : 2. It is denied that this decree oblieged the Church of Jerusalem no other way then it oblieged all the Churches of all the world , for here bee three sorts of Churches , and three sorts of Churches are under a tie by this Synod ; first , Jerusalem , secondly , Antioch , Syria and Cilicia , thirdly , universally all the Churches of the Gentiles . The Church of Jerusalem have formall commissioners , here under an ecclesiasticall tie as concerning the faith of the things contained in the decree , that it is lawfull for the Gentiles to abstaine from things offered to idolls , from things strangled , and from blood ; and they were simply under a tie both of the seventh Commandement , and by the fifth Commandement , to abstaine from fornication , because the Synod had forbidden it . 2. They were under a tie by due proportion , not to keepe the Law of Moses and not to bee circumcised by any necessitie of a Divine Law , but onely by permission to use these ceremonies for feare of scandall . 3. They are tied by proportion also to give no offence in things indifferent . 4. Not to reject the Gentiles whom the Lord had called to his heavenly kingdome , as well as the Jewes . 2. These Churches of the Gentiles who never heard of the Synod , and so were not oblieged to bee there in their Commissioners or not tied at all by this Decree , by vertue of any ecclesiasticall tie , but are onely tied by the Law of Nature , not to abuse their libertie in the use of things in their owne nature indifferent , and so this is false that the Church of Jerusalem was tied no other way by these acts then all Churches of the world , for some of the Churches of the world were not tied at all , by any ecclesiasticall bond , but onely for the necessitie of the Law of Nature . 3. Jerusalem , Antioch , Syria and Cilicia were tied by an ecclesiasticall tie , because Jerusalem and the Churches of Antioch had here Commissioners , for Antioch sent Paul and Barnabas with certaine other of them , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , this must relate to Pastors and Elders , if Syria and Cilicia had no Commissioners here , as certainly they were oblieged to send Commissioners , as well as Antioch , seeing their case was one with Antioch , v. 23. and they could not but heare of this Apostolick remedie to remove the scandall of false Doctrine , and therefore their Commissioners were either here , or then they were oblieged to bee here , and here wee have the true essence of a Synod , to wit , a meeting of the Churches of Antioch and Jerusalem at Jerusalem to determine of this question . But that the Church of Jerusalem did not determine all the businesse in a Presbyteriall way , and that others had hand in it , is cleare . 1. Because Paul and Barnabas and others with them are expresly sent from Antioch to Jerusalem as Commissioners and Elders , and here they reason and voyce , as is cleare , ch. 15. v. 12. v. 22. v. 28. ch. 16. 4. ch. 21. 25 , 26. and the Acts and Decrees are ascribed to all the Apostles and Elders who were present at the councell , ch. 14. 4. ch. 15. v. 22. v. 12. and amongst these were Paul and Barnabas , with certaine others sent from Anti●b , Act. 15. 2. and the Elders of Jerusalem , Act. 21. 25. with the Apostles , Act. 16. 4. ( 2. ) the reasons alledged are false , for Act. 16. 4. Act. 15. 22. Act. 21. 25. the Acts and Synodicall Decrees are not ascribed to Elders of Jerusalem onely , but to the Apostles who were not Elders at Jerusalem , and to the Elders in Jerusalem , Act. 16. 4. not of Jerusalem . 3. It is no matter though it cannot bee proven that the Churches of Syria and Cilicis had no Commissioners there , for first , the contrary cannot bee proven ; secondly , they ought to have had Commissioners here ; thirdly , the Acts are sent to them conjunctly with Antioch , and messengers to report the mind and sense of the Assembly as to Antioch , v. 23. ( 4. ) It is but a groundlesse conceit to say that Paul and Barnabas came to the Synod as Commissio●●●s , or as servants to receive information , not as Elders to give their decisive voices , because Paul carried himselfe in the assembly as Peter and James who were Elders in the assembly , and they being Apostles , the decrees are ascribed to the Apostles without any distinction , Act. 15. 28. Act. 16. 4. And if Paul and Barnabas , and Silas a Prophet of the Church at Antioch , Act. 15. v. 32. with Judas , v. 27. also a Prophet , had beene onely Commissioners and servants of the Church at Antioch , and not Elders and members of the Assembly , how could they have voices in the Church or Congregation of Jerusalem ? for the messengers of one Congregation hath not place to voyce in another Congregation . 2. It is said expressely , It seemed good to the Apostles and Elders , with the whole Church to send chosen men of their owne , with Paul and Barnabas , namely , Judas surnamed Barsabas , and Silas , chiefe men , ( leading men ) amongst the Brethren ; now I desire to bee resolved in two ; 1. how Judas and Silas were men of their owne company 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , certainly 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 must relate to the Assembly , to wit , to Elders and Apostles , by all good Grammar , and how are they called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Captaines and leading men amongst the Brethren , which brethren are certainly these mentioned in the same verse , Apostles , Elders , and the whole Church , and these mentioned in the next verse , 23. Apostles , Elders and Brethren , that is , chosen men of this Assembly ; now it is evident that Judas and Silas were no part of Elders of the Church of Jerusalem , but Prophets at Antiab , v. 32. and members of that Presbytery spoken of Act. 13. 1 , 2. and Act. 15. v. 35. And what power then had the Assembly to send them , and especially what power had the Eldership or presbytery of Jerusalem to send men 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , of their owne company who were not men of their owne company ? therefore they were called chosen men 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of their owne company , and leading men 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the Brethren , because they were members of the Assembly , and of that councell gathered together with one accord , v. 25. and not because they were naked messengers of the Church of Antioch , but Elders , Prophets , v. 32. and members of the Assembly , v. 22. 23. And when as it is said Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 28. These decrees are ascribed to the Elders in Jerusalem . I answer they are not called the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem , as Revel. 2. 1. To the Angel of the Church of Ephesus , v. 8. To the Angel of the Church of Smyrna , and v. 12. of the Church of Pergamus , and v. 18. and Act. 20. 17. but the Eders which were at Jerusalem assembled : and this doth no more prove that all these Elders were onely the Elders of the Church at Jerusalem , then it proveth that the Apostles were the Apostles of the Church at Ierusalem which no man can say : yea by the phrase of Scripture used in other places , it is cleare they were not the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem ; and for Act. 21. 25. The Elders of the Church of Jerusalem taketh those Decrees upon them , not as if they made the whole Synod , but because they were a considerable part of the Synod , for it is cleare from the story , Act. 15. that the Apostles and others were members of that assembly , and therefore , that v. 25. Wee have written and concluded , &c. must bee expounded , wee as a part of the Synod , have written , &c. and it is a Synecdoche , and the pronoune 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ( wee ) includeth no Apostle but James , whereas Peter , Paul , Barnabas , Iudas , Sil●s and others Elders and Brethren were members of the Synod , yea and ( as our Brethren say , though to mee it is not probable ) the whole Church of Ierusalem from v. 22. c. 15.

Object . 7. They take away the scandall in a doctrinall way only , declaring that they ought to abstaine from things scandalous .

Answ. The very delivering to Satan may thus bee called doctrinall , because it is a Declaration that the mans sinnes are retained in heaven , yet it is an authoritative declaration , and if it bee meere doctrinall , one Pastor and one Prophet might have done all which this venerable colledge of Apostles and Elders disputed , reasoned , and concluded Synodically . A meere doctrinall power layeth not on burdens and Decrees . Herodian calleth such 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 senatusconsult●in , and Bude●●s a man excellently skilfull in the Greeke language saith the like

Budens cōme●t . l●ng . 〈◊〉 .

C. l. n●m & demostbenes ss. delegis .

of it , and so doth the civill Law make it a statute of the Senate .

Object . 8. The reason why Patel could not , though hee was an Apostle , determine this at Antioch , was not because hee wanted Apostolick authoritie , but because his Apostolick power was more questionable , hee not having seene Christ in the flesh , nor being a witnesse of the life , death and resurrection of Christ , then the authoritie of James and Peter who wer● eye-witnesses of Christs life , doctrine , and sufferings , and saw him visibly ascend to heaven , and the believers doubted if hee was an Apostle , and the Synod was convened to have theresolution of the Apostles , and so it was meerely Apostolicall .

Ans. Though I grant there beesome truth in this , that Pauls Apostolick calling was now more question 〈◊〉 , then the rest of the Apostles ; and I easily yeeld that these who disputed with him could not rest upon his authority ; yet I deny that hence wee can inferre no Synod : for if the Apostles had convened in Synod to satisfie those who doubted of Pauls authoritie as an Apostle ; then they would have reterred the matter to James and Peter , who to these beleevers were undoubtedly the Apostles of the Lord : but if the Apostles had had no intent , but to end the controversie in a mere Apostolick way , and not intended a Synodicall and an ●clesiasticall and perpetuall remedy in such cases of controversies , in particular Churches ; I shall not beleeve that the Apostles when they were to determine by a superior , an Apostolick and infallible light , they would have joyned with them the Elders , as Act. 15. 16. to consider of the question , and that the Church of Au●ioch doubting if Paul was an Apostle , would have decreed to seeke a resolution from Elders , and that in an Apostolick way , for they sent to the Elders at Jerusalem for a resolution as well as to the Apostles , Act. 15. 2. and judge yee if the Apostles being to determine infallibly as Apostles , would joyne the falliblo and inferiour light of Elders , v. 6. and Brethren , v. 22. if tlloy had not had a mind to determine the question in a Synodicall way .

Object . 9. But it is not cleare that in this act they either censure persons , or doe any thing in order to Church-censure , but onely exercise a naked doctrinall power .

Answ. A doctrinall power was in a higher measure in the Apostles , then in all the Elders of the world , who were all but fallible men , and James and Peter to these beleevers , who moved the question , were undenyably Apostles , and what doctrinall power could they seeke in the Elders to whose determination , by intention both of Antioch , ch . 15. 2. and by the Apostles intention , v. 6. the question is referred as well as to the Apostles ? if the matter was not to bee ended by a formall Synod . 2. Nor can they deny a power of jurisdiction though there were no persons rebuked and censured in this Synod ; for the object of a juridicall power is not onely persons , but things of order , decencie , circumstances , questions of doctrine , as is cleare , Re●el . 1. 14. 15. & officers to be ordained , Act. 6. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2 , 3. ( 3. ) Our brethren cannot deny but the sentence of non-Communion is a censure , and a great one , yea and of kindred and blood most neare to excommunication , and that if any Churches should have ref●●sed those Canons , by this Canon the Churches might have pronounced the sentence of non-communion against them , and to pronounce this sentence is an act of government as properly so called , as to pronounce the sentence of excommunication , for it is the formall halfe of the sentence of excommunication .

Object . 10. It seemeth that Apostles here determine as Apostles , for they condenme the obtruders of circumcision , because they taught these things without any Apostolick , Commandement , v. 24. They teach that you must bee circumcised and keepe the Law , to whom , wee , ( the Apostles ) gave no such commandement .

Answ. This is no more a good argument to prove that the obtruders of circumcision did teach false doctrine , and were not condemned by the Apostles and Elders Synodically , then if one should say , this is not a Synodicall decree of the Church , because it is proven and made good by the Word of God , for Synodicall decrees exclude not Gods word , though they bee not formally Scripture ; for in some part of the Epistle the Apostles may well speak of themselves as distinguished from Elders and as Apostles , and yet the assembly is an ordinary Synod and not an Apostolick meeting , for if wee should argue thus , the whole Church , men and women , v. 22. sent messengers to Antioch , as the Church , and not as Apostles , our brethren would thinke it a weake consequence to inferre , Ergo , this was nothing but a Congregational , not an Apostolical meeting . Yet our brethren contend that the whole Church and single Congregation of Ierusalem did concurre in this meeting as consenters , and having power also , though not of jurisdiction ; but I wonder why our brethren should so contend that there was no power of censuring put forth in this Assembly , seeing one of their speciall answers , whereby they would prove that this it not a patterne of an ordinary Synod , and such a Synod as wee contend for , having power of jurisdiction is , that this was an ordinary meeting of the Elders and Church of Ierusalem , giving counsell and advise with the Apostles to the Church of Antioch , but I am sure the businesse of not scandalizing did as much concerne the Church of Ierusalem , and therefore in the Synod they ought to put forth power of jurisdiction , if any of their members , hearing that the Apostles contended that the ceremoniall Law did not lay a tie on the conscience of either Jew or Gentile , in foro dei , before Gods court , as the places cited by Iames prove , v. 15 , 16 , 17. ( & Peter saith expresly that God now putteth no difference betwixt Iewes and Gentiles , v. 9. but 〈◊〉 are saved through the grace of our Lord Iesus , v. 11. ) should ab ●aine from blood , to the offence of the weaker , should not this Congregation all Church condemne such , in ordine ad censuram , in order to excommunication ? yea the Eldership and Congregation of Jerusalem here convened as our brethren say , should have failed in this first Synod , and also the Apostles with them , if they neglected to exercise juridicall power over their owne Congregation in the case of scandall , and a scandall as possible to them to fall in as the Gentiles , and therefore either this assembly consisting of Apostles and of the particular Church of Ierusalem erred , which wee cannot say , or then they did exercise power in order to excommunication towards their owne Church , and so there is some juridicall power put forth in this meeting .

Object . 11. Though the Apostles in this Synod proceed by way of disputing and borrow light one from another , it followeth not th●● they goe not on here as Apostles , yea though Peter and Paul d●e not say all the truth , nor fall upon that which is the conclusion of the Assembly , as I ames doth , it doth not hinder but they are led in all these Synodicull deba●e● by the infallible and Apostolick spirit , because some things are revealed to one Evangelist and to one Prophet , which is not revealed to another ; Iohn the Divine saw visions and heavenly mysteries which none of the rest of the Apostles saw , nor could write in their writings and Canonicall Epistles , yet it doth not hence follow that James , Peter , Jude and Paul in their canonicall writings and Epistles were not immediatly inspired . It is enough to make the Apostles in their writings infallible Apostles and immediatly inspired , if that which they write bee the infallible truth and canonick Scripture , though every Apostle write not all canonick truth ; now what the Apostles setteth down in this Synod is Scripture , and the object of our faith , and written for our instruction ; so something was revealed to James which was not revealed to Peter and Paul in this dispute , but it followeth not , Ergo , what Peter and Paul spake , they spake it not by immediate revelation , and what they spake is not Scripture .

Answ. 1. The strength of my argument is close mistaken , for I did not argue simply from the Apostles borrowing light one from another , to prove they act not here as Apostles but as Elders , neither did I argue simply from this , James saith more then Peter doth , Ergo , Peter is not immediatly inspired in what hee saith : for I grant the Apostles borrow ●ight from the Prophets , and their writings , one saith and writeth what another saith not , and cannot write , and yet all are immediatly inspired , in what they write . But I argued thus ; when ever the Apostles are consulted with to resolve a question as Apostles & do conveen● Synodically & intend to resorve the question if the Apostles in that case , or any one of them come short of the resolution , & do not see the conclusion they intend to see , but in so sarre as they are helped on by another in a way of disputation , in that they doe not act as Apostles , but the case is so here ; 1. all were consulted with , Act. 15. 2. (2) all intended to resolve the question , and did meet together for that end to resolve it fully , v. 6. (3) yet divers of the Apostles , as Peter , Paul and Barnabas see not the resolution fully that they aimed at , but determine the question imperfectly , and so , as if Iames had beene absent , or if hee had seene no more in resolving the question , then Paul and Barnabas and Peter said , which was onely that the Law of Moses was not to bee kept by either Iew or Gentile , upon the Necessitie of salvation , but that both Jewes and Gentiles are saved by the grace of Jesus Christ ; if James ( I say ) had seene no more then this , the consciences of both sides had not beene satisfied , and the question not resolved , but the Jewes should have gone on in a totall abstinence from all ceremonies , which because of the indifference of the ceremonies , was then dangerously scandalous , and spirituall homicide , and the Gentiles should freely have eaten blood , meates offered to idols , and things strangled , which also was scandalous in a high measure to the weake Jewes , and so the matter should have beene worse after this Synod , and the controversie hotter , the fire bolder , and the scandall more dangerous then it was before the Synod , which I cannot beleeve that the Apostles as Apostles could have done ; So wee know Nathan to have spoken as a man , and not as a Prophet , when being consulted with by David anent the building of the Temple , and purposing and intending fully to resolve the question , yet resolved it amisse and quite contrary to the mind of God ; now what the penmen of holy Scripture intended to write as Scripture , that they fully wrote and no more , and what they wrote not , that they intended not to write , but leave it to others of the penmen of the holy Ghost , because the immediatly inspiring holy Ghost consulted with and intending to resolve such a canonick truth , cannot misse in his blessed intention . And also the Elders at Jerusalem were consulted with to resolve the question as well as the Apostles , as is cleare Act. 15. 2. Now if the Church of Antiech had beene minded to referre the resolution to the Apostles as infallibles Apostle , they would never have referred it to the Elders , whom they knew could erre as well as themselves , nor would the Elders have joyned as fellow-disputers with the Apostles as Apostles , as they expresly doe , v. 6. for that is as you would say , some countrey men of ordinary spirit destitute of all propheticall light concurred with Esaiah to see the visions of God ; And it is as if David as king counsell at God , whether the men of Keilah would deliver him up to Saul , had consulted with God and with Abiathar , and some foure or five Elders of Keilah voyd of all propheticall spirit , whether the men of Keilah should deliver him up to Saul , or no : for these Elders of Jerusalem and Antioch and other brethren were as voyd of an Apostolick spirit as the Elders of Keilah were of a Propheticall spirit . It were a vaine action for the Elders to joyne themselves as joynt-disputers and fellow-resolvers of the controversie with the Apostles , for the fellow-resolvers were to seeke resolution at the Apostles , who could as Apostles infallibly resolve them .

2. What the Apostles set downe is Scripture , and is the object of our faith , and written for our instruction , Ergo , the Apostles did give it forth in the Synod as Scripture , it followeth not : I may preach Scripture , and that which is the object of faith , and written for our instruction , Ergo , I preach it as an Apostle by an Apostolick spirit , it followeth not ; for so if the Elders had spoken Scripture which is written for our instruction , the Elders should have spoken it by an Apostolick spirit , which is manifestly false ; and so if the Elders of Corinth , 1 Cor. 5. should have proven in their Presbytery that the incestuous person should bee delivered to Satan , from Matth. 18. they should have spoken that in the presbytery by an Apostolick Spirit : all which are manifestly false . The holy Ghost by Luke did make it Scripture formally , but that the Apostles spake it as Scripture by an Apostolick spirit , because it is the object of our faith that Luke did insert it in the Canonicall history , is no more hence proven then one might inferre that Gamaliel by the immediate inspiration of the Spirit spake the oration that hee uttereth to the councell of Priests and Pharisees , Act. 5. 34 , 35. & c. for that is formally made Scripture by Luke his inserting of it in the Register of Scripture ; yea the words of Satan , Matth. 4. by that reason behoved to bee spoken by divine and immediate inspiration : but the truth is , wee are not to take what Peter speaketh from the Prophet Amos , Act. 15. v. 16. to bee Scripture , because Amos spake it in the Old Testament , but because Luke by immediate inspiration saith that Peter uttered these words from the Prophet Amos. Immediate inspiration maketh any saying Scripture , and not the Apostles historicall relating of it out of the writings of the Prophets , though the sayings of the Prophets as they are registred in the bookes of Old Testament bee formally Scripture , yet as cited by the Apostles they d●e not become Scripture , except these saying , bee cited , tali modo , that is , by the influence of the immediatly inspiring holy Ghost , which influence onely maketh formally any saying to bee Scripture .

Object . 12. If the Apostles did not in a Synod , with the Elders dispute and voyce as Apostles , it should follow that as Apostles , they did plant Churches , but after the Churches were planted they ceased to bee Apostles , and did all as ordinary Elders , which is most incongr●o●s , for then should they descend from an infallible to a fallible spirit .

Answ. The Apostles did onely use their Apostolick power , when there was need of it ; as God worketh not miracles , but in some necessitating exigence of second causes : and what they could doe by an ordinary power , when the Churches were once constituted , they did not attempt to doe by their Apostolick power ; and though their Apostolick power was in them as a habit , yet the exercise thereof was rather under the dominion of an extraordinary and immediate rapt and influence of God , then under the mastery of their owne free-will . I would aske why the Church of Antioch , no doubt most lawfully , Act. 15. 2. did send to seeke resolution at the fallible spirit of Elders , and also ( as our brethren teach ) at the infallible spirit of the Apostles ? and why did they not from their infallible and Apostolick spirit seeke out and choose seven men to bee Deacons , but remitted to the fallible spirit of the multitude who are not infallible or Apostolick in their choise , both the nomination and election of these seven men ; but the Apostles did much honour the Churches of Christ in cooperating with them , and in doing most things with their consent , that by example they might interdict dominion , and assert a ministeriall power , and make Christ most Monarch-like in the government of his spirituall Kingdome : nor did they put off , or interdict themselves , nor forfeit their Apostolick power , after Churches were constituted , but used their Apostolick power at the Commandement of that great King exalted Jesus Christ , whose Catholick Ambassadours they were , as God immediatly moved them .

Object . 13. Paul exercised the power of the Keyes of knowledge upon Barbarians , and might have preached to Indians , and did pres●h to the scefling Athenians . Ergo , hee might exercise power of jurisdiction over them , and judge those who are without , it is no consequence , and against the word of God , 1 Cor. 5. 12. Yea Paul by this power dogmaticall rebuked the Athenians , Act. 17. 22. I perceive that in Mr. Mather against Mr. Herle , c. 4 p. 43 , 44. all things yee are too superstitious , yet Paul had no power to excommunicate the Athenians . Mr. Mather .

Answ. I deny not , but there is great odds betwixt a concionall rebukin● , by way of preaching , which may bee , and is alwayes performed by one , and a juridicall rebuking by a power juridicall of the Keyes , which is performed onely by a Church-s●ci●tie : now it cannot bee denyed but the rebuking of men , because they subverted soules , v. 24. is not a meere concionall rebuking , which may bee performed by one ; 1. it is a rebuking , v. 24. (2) it is a rebuking performed by many , by a whole Synod , v. 6. v. 22. (3) It is performed by a politicall societie and body having a dogmaticall power to judge and determine in a doct●inall way , as our brethren say , and consequently as wee say , having a juridicall power , v. 25. It seemed good unto us , being assembled with one accord , to send chosen men unto you , &c. which is undenyably a politicall body , an assembled company , as v. 6. met about a question which concerneth the Churches of Christ , as is cleare , v. 2. v. 6. v. 23. c. 16. 4 , 5. c. 21. 25. compared with v. 22. hence a businesse of doctrine which troubleth the Churches of Antioch , c , 15. 2. and of Jerusalem , v. 5 , 6 , 7 , 8. and Syria and Cilicia , v. 23 , 24. must bee a Church-businesse in respect of the subject . 2. The question is a Church-question in the matter of practise , it cono●rneth the consciences of the Churches in the point of taking and giving offence , in a Church-societie as this doth , v. 19. That yee trouble not them which amongst the Gentiles are turned unto God , and v. 28 , 29. compared with 1 Cor. 10. 24 , 25 , 26 , 27 , & c. Rom. 14. 14 , 15. this was a Church-●candall or publick offence , as touching the matter , materia qu●nt . (2) The forme and manner of deciding the controversie was a publick Church-way by the Word of God , Act. 15. so 〈◊〉 proveth , v. 7 , 8. 9. and James , v. 15 , 16 , &c. maketh good . (4) The efficient causes and agents in the question , are 1. Church - 〈◊〉 , v. 6. Apostles and Elders . 2. Church-officers conveened Church-wayes in a Church-body or societie , v. 6. c. 15. and The Apostles and Elders came together ( in a Synod , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a word which cur brethren acknowledgeth doth , 1 Cor. 5. 4. note a formall Church-assembly ) to consider of this matter , and ● , 25. It seemed good to us being assembled with one accord , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and the very word Church is not wanting though with reverence of others , it seemeth not to bee the multitude , seeing the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , beeing so generall , must have its signification from the action and end , for which the meeting is intended , as before I said ) as is cleare , v. 22. It pleased the Apostles , Elders , and whole Church . 5. The action they performe , when they are met in a politicall body , is to decide a Church-controversie , that troubled many Churches , Act. 15. 2. v. 23 , 24. (6) The end is the peace and edifying of the Churches , as that the Churches of the Gentiles bee not troubled with needlesse ceremonies , as James saith , v. 19. and the good of the Churches , v. 29. from which if you keepe your selves , yee shall doe well , c. 16. 4. And ●s they went through the cities they delivered them the Decrees to 〈◊〉 , v. 5. so were the Churches established in the faith . Consider 〈◊〉 is the happy end and fruit of this Synod ; The establish●●● of the Churches . Therefore have our brethren without reason ( I speake with reverence of their learning and godlinese ) denied the word Church to bee given to a Synod , or a meeting of Elders , which to mee is cleare , Act. 15. v. 6. The 〈◊〉 sending is the Eldership of Antioch ; the Church recei●●● , v. 4. is the Eldership at Jerusalem , and cannot conveniently bee exponed of the whole and numerous thousands that ●●e●ed at Jerusalem ; the rebuking cannot then bee meerely ●●●●inall by the power of the keyes of knowledge which is exercised by one , nor are the Apostles and Elders here considered as meerely Preachers and Teachers in the Act of teacher , for why then should they not bee formally a Church and a Church-assembly , as our Brethren say , if they bee an assembly meeting for preaching the Word ? for the exercise of the keyes of Knowledge in the hearing of a multitnde is essentially an act of preaching the Word .

Object . 14. This Synod declares only in a doctrinall way what is necessary , what is scandalous , the same way , that Paul doth , Rom. 14. 14 , 15. i Cor. 8. 1 Cor. 10.

Answ. This Synod and Paul declare one and the same thing , Ergo , with one and the same authoritie , it followeth not ; Paul writeth , 1 Cor. 5. that the incestuous man should bee excommunicated , and this hee wrote as canonicall Scripture , by the immediat inspiration , of the holy Spirit , if then the Church of Corinth should have excommunicated him , shall it follow that they gave out the sentence of excomunication by the immediate inspiration of the holy Spirit ? I thinke not , their Churches sentence had been given out by a meere ecclesiasticall authoritie , according to the wch Churches of Christ to the worlds end doth excommunicate , following the Church of Corinth as a patterne .

Obj. 15. Though these obtruders of ceremonies did pervent so●ks , v. 24. yet the Synod doth not summond them before them , nor excommuncite them , but remit them to the particular Churches to whom it properly belonged to censure , and not to any Synod , or superiour Judicature .

Answ. There was no need to summon them , for these subverters of soules were personally present at the Synod , and rebuked in the face of the Synod as perverters of soules , v. 24. for if they were not present ; 1. to whom doth Peter speake , v. 10. Now therefore why tempt yee God to put a yoake on the necke of the disciples , &c. the Apostles and Elders did not impose the yoake of Moses Law upon the beleeving disciples , nor any other , save onely the obtruders of circumcision . 2. Who were they in the Synod who made much disputing ? v. 7. note the Apostles , not any save these obtruders . Ergo , they were personally present at the Synod , nor needed they to excommunicate them , for I judge that they acquiesced to the determination of James , which was the sentence of the Synod , and the great dispute spoken of , v. 7. ceased , v. 13. and the conclusion is agreed upon , 22. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 then it seemed good to the Apostles , Elders and whole Church , and there was reason why these obtruders should acquiesce , so that there was no need of further censure , for there was satisfactiou in part given to both siddes . The question was , whether or no are beleevers now to keepe the Law and the ceremonies of Moses his Law ? It was answered by the Synod , by a distinction which favoured , in part , both sides , 1. There is no necessitie that the beleeving Gentiles who are saved by grace as well as the Jewes bee troubled to keepe all the ceremonies , and this satisfied the Apostles who taught that the Gentiles were now made one people with the Jewes , and both are freed in conscience from Moses his yoake , the other part of the distinction it was this , yet there bee some ceremoniall commandements , as not to eate things offered to Idols , blood , and things strangled , ( for fornication is of another nature , and abstinence therefrom is of perpetuall necessitie , 1 Cor. 6. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. 1 Thess. 4. 3. Col. 3. 5. ) these must bee avoided , for scandals sake , by all the Jewes , but especially by the Gentiles , lest the weake Jewes , who take these to be divine commandements yet in force , take offence , and this was satisfactorie to the obtruders , and wee heare no more of their disputing , and there is an end of the controversie by the blessed labours of a lawfull Synod . 3. I could easily yeeld that there is no necessitie of the elicit acts of many parts of government , such , as excommunication , ordination , admitting of heathens professing the faith to Church-membership , in Synods provinciall , nationall or oecumenicall , but that Synods in the case of neglect of presbyteriall-Churches , command these particular Churches whom it concerneth , to doe their dutie , and in this sense the Synod , Act. 15. is to remit the censure of excommunication to the presbytery of Antioch and Jerusalem , in the case of the obstinacie of these obtruders of circumcision , but so some power of government is due to the Synod , as prescribing of Lawes and Canons for presbyteries and Congregations .

Object . 16. Therefore was the Synagogue of the Jewes no compleat Church , because all the ordinances of God cannot bee performed in the Synagogue , and therefore were the Jewes commanded onely at Jerus salem and in no other place to keepe the passeover , and to offer offerings and sacrifices , which were òrdinary worship , Deut. 12. but there is not any worship or sacred ordinance , ( saith that a a Ames Medul. Theolo . lib. 1. c. 38. ch. 37. lib. 1. 39. thes● 26. worthy Divine Dr. Ames ) of preaching , praying , Sacraments , & c. prescribed , which is not to bee observed in every Congregation of the New Testament : Nor is there any ordinary minister appointed who is not given to some one Assembly of this kind . So also b b A modest and brotherly answer to Mr. Herle , c. 2. p. 12. 13. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson , teachers in New England . Others say because there was a representative worship of sacrificing of all the 12. Tribes at Jerusalem , therefore all the Synagogues were dependent Churches , and Jerusalem was the supreme and bighest Church , but there is no representative worship in the New Testament , and therefore no need of Synods , as higher Churches .

Answ. Surely the aforesaid reverend Brethren of New England have these words , c c Ib. c. 1. pag. 8. But it seemeth to us that the power ( of a Synod ) is not proporly a power and exercise of government and jurisdiction , but a power of doctrine , and so a Synod is rather a ●aching then a governing Church ; from which I inferre ; 1. That out Brethren cannot deny a power of governing to a Synod , but it is not so proper governing , as excommunication and ordination performed in their Congregations , but ( say I ) it is more properly governing , as to make Lawes and rules of governing , is a more noble , eminent and higher act of governing ( as is evident in the King and his Parliament ) then the execution of these Lawes and rules . 2. Our brethren incline to make a Synod a teaching Church ; but I inferre that Synodicall teaching by giving out decrees tying many Churches , as our Brethren of d d Church-government of New-England , Answer to q. 14. pag. 43 , 44. New England , and the forenamed e e Mr Mather & Mr. Thomson Answer to Mr. Herle , c. 4 pag. 40 , 41 , sig. authors teach , is an ordinance of Christ that can bee performed in no single Congregation on earth , for a doctrinall Canon of one Congregation can lay no ecclesiasticall tie upon many Churches . Ergo , by this reason our Congregations shall bee dependent , as were the Jewish Synagogues . 3. With favour of these learned men it is a begging of the question to make Jerusalem the supreme Church , and the Synagogues dependent Churches , because it was lawfull onely at Jerusalem to sacrifice , for I hold that Jerusalem was a dependent Church no lesse then the smallest Synagogue in all the tribes , for in a Catholick meeting of all Judah for renewing a Covenant with God , Ierusalem was but a sister Church , with all of Iudah , Benjamin , Ephraim , Manasseh , who 2 Chron. 15. 9. 10. 11 , 12. made up one great Church which did sweare that Covenant . Ordinances doe not formally make Churches visible , nor divers ordinances divers Churches ; profession of the truth formally constituteth a visible Church , and Church union in ordinances and government , and this was alike in the Synagogues and in Ierusalem . It was a thing meerely typicall that at Ierusalem onely , and in the Temple onely should there bee offerings and sacrifices , because in Christ God-man , all our worship and service and prayers are accepted of the Father , but ( I pray you ) did this instampe Ierusalem with any note of Church-supremacy above the meanest Synagogue in all Israel and Iudah ? I see it not , all the Synagogues and all the land were members of the nationall Church , and every one a member of his owne Synagogue , the persons processing the truth and dwelling at Ierusalem had no supremacie over the Synagogues , because they did inhabit that typicall place , but the Priests and Levites were indeed servants to all the land , in offering sacrifices , and in governing in the Synedry either the greater , or the lesse , but these professors who did constitute the visible Church at Ierusalem had no Church supremacie at all for their relation to the Temple , their cohabitation or bodily contiguitie was no Church-relation then or now ; and that these of the Synagogues behooved to worship in some solemne acts onely at Ierusalem , did no more give supremacie to the inhabitants of Ierusalem to bee a Church over them , then the Synagogues could claime supremacie over the inhabitants of Ierusalem , for the inhabitants of Ierusalem were tied to worship there , and in no other place , and to stand to the determinntion of the great Synodrie without appeale , because there was not a Catholick visible Church in the world but the Church of the Iewes ; and this argument with as great force of reason might conclude that all the cities and incorporations of England are in government dependent and subordinate to London and the suburbs , because they are subordinate to the honorable Houses of Parliament , if wee should suppone that Westminster by a standing Law of the Kingdome were the unal●erable seat where the Parliament can fit , and in no other place , which yet could prove nothing , seeing London and the suburbs are in their government no lesse subordinate to the Parliament , then the meanest village and towne in England , and therefore I see no ground , because some representative worship was tied to Jerusalem , to give Jerusalem a Church-supremacie , 2. because one Congregation doth pray for another that is under pestilence and diseases , and praises God for the deliverance from these evills which also is a sort of representative worship ( every Church and person partaking of a Christian priesthood to offer up prayers and praises one for another ) it will not ( as I conceive ) prove that one Congregation hath Church-supremacie , and power of jurisdiction over another . Because 1. all Israel was alike circumcised ; 2. all alike the called people of God , in covenant with God ; 3. all had claime to the Altar , Sacrifices , Temple , Arke , &c. 4. All alike professed their subjection to God , to Priests and Prophets in these same ordinances , whether typicall , or judiciall , or morall , therefore every Synagogue alike at Ierusalem , at Dan or Bersheba , were alike Congregationall Churches , without dependance one upon another , and all depended upon the whole nationall Church , and on the Synodries supreme , subordinate , and the Synagogue-government according to their subordinations respectively ; and I see no nationall Church in Israel peculiar to them , or typicall , more then there is a nationall Church in Scotland or England , though God put some distinguishing typicall notes upon their government , yet it never made either the invisible or visible Church of the Iewes to differ in nature and essence from the Christian Churches .

Object . 17. From the power of jurisdiction , in a Synod , you may inferre a power of jurisdiction , in a nationall Church , and a power of jurisdiction in the whole Christian world , and wee know not any Politicall Church Catholick and visible in Scripture , and if then were any such Church Catholick , then might they conveene and sweart a Catholick-covenant for uniformitie of doctrine , worship , and government of the Church , as wee have done in Britaine , and this Catholick Church might impose it , upon a nationall Church , even by that same Law of proportion , by which the nationall Church may impose it on particular Churches which are parts of the Nationall Church .

Answ. I see not how the consequence holdeth every way good , that as wee inferre from a juridicall power in a presbytery , the same power juridicall in a Synod , and the same in a nationall Assembly , that therefore wee may inferre the same juridicall power in an Oecumenick councell : and the reasons of the disparitie I take to bee these ; 1. The farther remote in locall distance of place that Churches bee , ( as it falleth out in the Catholick visible Church ) the danger of scandalizing one another , by visible communion , and so the opportunitie of edifying one another is the lesse , and so the communion visible is the lesse , and consequently the power of jurisdiction is the lesse . 2. An universall and oecumenick councell of all the visible Churches on earth , is an act of the visible Church which supposeth all the visible Churches on earth to bee in that morall perfection of soundnesse of faith , of concord and unitie , that some one Congregation or classicall presbytery of Elders according to Gods heart may bee in , which morall perfection perhaps is not de facto attainable , ( though it bee not physically impossible ) in this life , except wee suppose the heavenly dayes of Christs visible reigne on earth a thousand yeares , when yet there shall bee no Temple nor externall ministery , of which state I cannot now dispute , and therefore I conceive these sixteene hundred yeares there never was an integrall and perfect oecumenick councell of all the Churches on earth , and therefore if wee should dispute of the juridicall power of such a Catholick assembly whether it may impose an oecumenick and Catholick oath on a nationall Church against their will , and excommunicate a nationall Church , is but a needlesse and a Ch●mericall dispute , and it includeth two contradictory suppositions . 1. That all the Churches on earth are of one sound faith , worship , doctrine and Church-government , and yet one nationall Church is supposed to bee heterodox , scandalous , and obstinate , so that that whole nationall Church must bee constrained to take a lawfull oath and must bee excommunicated ; such an hypothesis is not possible where the Gospell is preached , for even the whole Romish Church in all its members deserveth not excommunication , in respect wee are sure God hath thousands in the bosome of that Church ; who beleeve in Christ , and doe not defend popery with obstinacie , and such an hypothesis is contradicent to the supposition of the soundnesse of faith and unitie of all Christian Churches on earth , and therefore I plainely deny that Christ hath given the like power of jurisdiction to the Catholick visible Church , that hee hath given to a nationall Church , over a provinciall Church or Synod , and to a Synod over a classical Presbyterie ; yea I much doubt if a Catholick councell can formally excommunicate a nationall Church , though such a councell may use a power analogicall like to the power of excommunication .

Object . 18. But you cannot demonstrate from Gods Word , that there is such a thing in the New Testament , as a Catholick visible Church .

Answ. I said something of this before , but I conceive the subject of the 1 Cor. 12. is a Catholick , visible Church , But , 1. wee doe not understand a politicall body with ordinary visible government from one man who maketh himselfe the vicar of Christ , the Pope , whose members are Cardinals , Bishops , & c. and such like . But the Catholick body mysticall of Jesus Christ , and that as visible : and 1. that the Apostle is to bee understood of an universall , not of a Congregationall and particular politick Church that meeteth in one place , is cleare ; 1. hee speaketh of that Church wherein are diversities of gifts for the good of the whole Catholick body , as miracles , the gift of prophecie , the gift of interpretation , the gift of healing , &c. of whom hee saith , v. 5 , 6. there is the same spirit , and the same God , who worketh all in all , the particular Congregation is not such an all in all . 2. Hee speaketh of such a Church as taketh in all baptized into one spirit , but this is the whole visible Church , not one single Congregation onely . 3. Hee speaketh of such a Church as taketh in all , both Jewes and Gentiles , making them one body , v. 13. and that taketh in all the world . 4. Hee speaketh of such a Church as hath an adequat and full relation to Christ , from which this Church is denominated Christ mysticall , all the beleevers meeting in one mysticall body of Christ , as lines in one center , v. 12. now a single Congregation hath not a foot to fill this measure . 5. Hee speaketh of such a body as hath need of the helpe one of another , as the head hath need of the feet , v. 15 , 16 , 17. those of a single Congregation have need of those , who are eyes and eares without the congregation . 6. Hee speaketh of such a body , as is not to separate in their members , one from another , to make a schisme in the body . v. 25. but a single Congregation ought not to separate from the rest of the great body made up of many sister Churches . 7. Hee speaketh of such a body , the members whereof must care one for another , and suffer one with another , v. 26. now single Congregations are such members of this great bodie , as must mourne with these that mourne and rejoyce with these that rejoyce , therefore one single Congregation cannot bee this whole body , but its part onely . 8. Hee speaketh of such a body in which God hath set , v. 28. Apostles , Prophets , Teachers , mi●●cles , &c. now Christ hath not wedged in Apostles the Catholick Pastors of the whole world , to one single Congregation , nor hath hee confined such a multitude of officers ordinarie and extraordinary to one single Congregation . And that hee speaketh here of a Catholicke visible Church is cleare ; 1. Hee speaketh of such a body , to which is given the manifestation of the spirit to profit withall , v. 7. this must bee a visible policie . 2. Hee speaketh of a politicall and organicall body , having eyes , eares , hands , feet , &c. which must bee a visible ministery . 3. Hee speaketh of a body capable of the seales , such as Baptisme , v. 13. We all are baptized by one spirit into one body , this must bee a visible baptized body ; discerned by the visible character of baptisme from all societies of Jewes , Pagans , and others who professe not Christ Jesus . 4. Hee speaketh of such a body as standeth in need of the helpe one of another , as the eye cannot say to the hand , I have no need of the , v. 21. this evidently cryeth that hee supposeth a visible and externall policie in this body . 5. Hee speaketh of a body so tempered of God , as that there should bee no schisme in the body , nor separation from it , v. 25. now this cannot bee a separation from the invisible body of Christ , for so hypocrites which are members of this visible body , and are often officers , as eyes and eares , yea Pastors , and Teachers remaining in the body without any schisme or separation , are yet separatists from the invisible body of Christ , and no more parts of that body , then a woodden leg or arme is a member of a living man . 6. He speaketh of that body which is to expresse its care in praying , praising , mourning and rejoycing with the rest of the members as they are in a good or adverse condition of prosperitie or adversitie , v. 23 , 26. and this must bee a visible Church praying or praising God . 7. Hee speaketh of such a Church as the fellow members may see and know by their senses , to suffer , and bee in a hard condition , or to rejoyce , as v. 25. 26. and this is more then apparently cleare to bee a visible Church . 8. Hee speaketh of such a Church as God hath furnished with severall officers , in severall orders visibly knowne to bee different officers , as v. 28. Now God hath set some in the Church , first Apostles , secondarily Prophets , thirdly teachers , these bee parts and most eminent and considerable organs of a visible Church . And the like I might prove by divers of these arguments of that body politicall of which the Apostle speaketh , Rom. 12. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. to the end of the Chapter . These speciall exceptions there bee against this . 1. That the Church , 1 Cor. 12. is the invisible and mysticall body of Christ , because it is a body baptized by one spirit . 2. A body called Christ , that is Christ mysticall . Answ. It is true that this visible body hath also an inward and spirituall baptizing , answerable to the externall and outward baptizing , and so according to that internall and mysticall union it is an invisible body , as these reasons prove : but the question is , if the Apostle speake of the body of Christ in that notion , we deny that , for hee speaketh plainly here of the Church , as it is a politicall , organicall and visible body .

Object . 2. If one should say , God hath placed in the common-wealth Emperours , Kings , Dukes , Princes and Rulers , as the eyes and eares of the Commonwealth , it should no wayes follow that all the Common-wealths in the earth are one visible civill body having a government , so though it hee said God hath placed in the spirituall Common-wealths of the Church Apostles , Prophets , Teachers , &c. it followeth not that the Church is all one spirituall , politick visible body , it followeth onely that the Lord hath placed in the Church Apostles , Prophets , Teachers indefinitly , that is , that these may bee in any one single Congregation , as it is said , James 2. 2. If there come into your Assembly , or Synagogue , a man with a gold Ring , &c. now this will not prove that all the dispersed Jewes , to whom James wrote , were all but one Congregation .

Answ. 1. It is true , if any should say , God hath placed in the Common-wealth Emperors , Kings , Dukes , Princes , it should not folow that Common-wealths are one body , even Jewes , Gentiles , Barbarians , Americans , because there is not this externall union of visible Communion in the Common-wealths of the earth , as there is in the Churches ; but if one should say , God hath placed Emperors , Kings , Dukes , Princes in the Common-wealths , as in one organicall body , having one head who hath given influence to so many Orgins of head feet , hands , eyes , eares , &c. as the Apostle speaketh of this body of the Church , he should then say all the Common-wealths of the world made but one body , but this indefinite speech must , by good logick , have the vertue either of an universall or a particular proposition , as if I say ( The Church hath seated in it Apostles , Prophets , Teachers , &c. ) you meane either the Cathlick visible Church , or the particular Congregation , or 3. some Church betwixt these two : our brethren cannot say they meane of a middle Church , for then they grant ( contrary to their owne principles ) a politicall visible Church , beside a Congregation ; if they say the first , wee have what wee crave ; if they say that the Congregation hath seated in it Apostles , Prophets , they fall in the former absurditie , for God hath placed Apostles , in the whole Christian world .

Object . 3. When the Apostle saith , v. 21. The head cannot say to the feet , I have no need of you ; either must wee acknowledge here that ●ee meaneth the head of a Congregation , to wit a Pastor , or a Doctor , and so hee speaketh here of a Congregation ; or if hee speake of the Catholick Church , then Estius his argument may stand in force to 〈◊〉 the Pope to bee the head of the Church ; for Estius exponing these needs ( The head cannot say to the feet , I have no need of you ) by the head of the Catholick Church ( saith hee ) you either understand Christ the principall head , or then , some mortall man , the Pope , who is a ministeriall head ; the former you cannot say , because Christ being God , and also man perfectly happy , hee may say to all the members of his Church great and small , yea to the very Angels , I have no need of you ; for hee can sanctifie and governe his Church without the ●●d , the Sacraments , or any ministers , therefore the head which 〈◊〉 in need of the feet , must bee the ministeriall head the Pope , 〈◊〉 standeth in need of the feet for the governing of the body in a ministeriall way .

I answer , there is no reason for a Popish argument to leave the truth , for this argument shall no lesse militate against cur brethren , then against us , because it shall prove that there is a ministeriall head and Pope in every Congregation , which is no lesse absurd then to make a Catholick head over all the visible Catholick Church . Secondly , as for the argument it is easily answered , for the Apostle here useth a comparison from the naturall body , and there is no ground to presse every to● , lith and sinew of a comparison ; and wee deny that the word ( head ) here doth signifie literally either Pastor or Bishop , for the eye also being that which watcheth and seeth for the whole body should also signifie the Pastor , but the intent of the Spirit of God is , that the most eminent members which are as the eyes & the head , whether their eminencie bee excellencie of saving grace , called , gratia gratum faciens , or excellencie of gifts , called , gratia gratis data , they have need of the gifts and graces of others inferiors and of meaner parts , and there is neither ministeriall head , nor ministeriall feet , nor ministeriall eyes in the Text.

Object . 4. To every visible Church there should bee a Paster to feed and rule that Church , if then there bee here a Catholick visible Church , thers should also be a Catholick visible Pastor , & that is a Pope .

Answ. That to every Church meeting 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 into one place , for Word and Sacraments , there should bee one Pastor onely and a supreme one , I deny ; there may bee more Pastors then one , but that to every Catholick Church there should be one head most eminent , that is farre rather to bee denied , for this is so great a flocke that there bee a necessitie of multitude of Pastors and watchmen to attend so Catholick a flock .

Object . 19. You teach that the government of consociated Churches is warranted by the light of nature , which if it bee true , surely this light of nature being common to us , in civill , as in ecclesiasticall ca●ses , then by natures light every citie governed with rulers within it selfe , is suberdinate to a Classe of many cities , and that Classe to a nationall meeting of all the cities , and the nation must in its government bee subordinate to a Catholick or ●ecumenick civill court , and Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson , answ. to Mr. Herle , c. 2. p. 16 and p. 20. this same way may appeales ascend in civill courts ; and because by the same light of nature ( saith Mr. Mather , and Mr. Thomson ) there must bee some finall and supreme judgement of controversies le●t ●ppeaks should bee spun out in infinitum , it must bee proved that this sup●em 〈◊〉 lyeth not in a Congregation .

Answ. 1. Appeales being warranted by the morall counsell which Je●hro gave to Moses , in which there is nothing typicall or ●remoniall , but a patterne that all Common-wealths on earth , without any danger of Judaizing may fellow , cannot but bee ( as Whittaker hath observed ) naturall , and supposing that God hath given warrant in his word , for Monarchies , which are knowne by Gods appointment to bee independent , as also the government of all free and unconquered States are , it doth follow by the light of nature , that appeales in all states are naturall , and that God hath appointed that the supremacie should lie within the bounds of every free Monarchie or State , so that there can bee no appeale to any oecumenicall or Catholick civill Court , for that is against the independent power that God hath given to States ; but in the Church it is farre otherwise , for God hath appointed no visible Monarchie in his Church , nor no such independencie of policie within an congregation classicall , provinciall or nationall Church and therefore though appeales bee warranted both in Church and State , by the light of nature , yet appeales to exotick and forraine judicatures is not warranted by any such light , but rather contrary thereunto .

2. Church-appeales , though warranted by the light of nature , yet it is supposed they bee rationall , and grounded on good reason , as that either the matter belong not to the congregation , or then it bee certaine or morally presumed the Congregation will bee partiall and unjust , or the businesse bee difficill and intricate , and if appeales bee grcundlesse and unjust , neither Christ , nor natures light doth warrant them , yea in such a case the supremacie , from which no man can lawfully appeale , lyeth sometime in the Congregation , sometime in the classicall presbytery , so as it is unlawfull to appeale , for illud tantumpossumus quod jure possumus , and neither Christ nor natures light doth warrant us to unjust appeales , or to any thing against equitie and reason : but that supremacy of power should bee in a Congregation without any power of appealing , I thinke our brethren cannot teach ; for when the Church of Antioch cannot judge a matter concerning the necessitie of keeping Moses his Law , or any difficill dogmaticall point , they by natures direction , Act. 15. 2. decree to send Pau ' , Barnabas and others to Jerusalem to the Apostles and Elders , as to a higher judicature , that their truth may bee determined , and this they did without any positive law that wee can imagine : for a a Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson Answer to Mr. Herle c. 4 p. 42. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson , as also b b Church-government and Church-covenant of New England , Answ. to quest. 14. p. 44. the Author of the Church government of New England teach that the Church of Antioch had , jus , power to judge and determine the controversie , but because of the difficultie had not light ●o judge thereof ; Ergo they must acknowledge appeales by natures light warrantable as well as wee , for suppose wee , that a Congregation inclineth to this ( that Arminianisme is the sound doctrine of grace opposite to Stoicisme ) one man is cited before the Congregation for holding the contrary , hee knoweth all the Congregation in those points to be Pelagians , would not our brethren say , that this man so unjustly accused for holding the truth against the enemies of grace may appeale to a Synod ? I thinke they must teach this by their grounds , though by the way I thinke the brethren erre in this to teach that Antioch had power to determine the controversie , Act. 15. in this case ; 1. when the Churches of Syria and Cilicia , to their knowledge , were troubled with the like question , as v. 24. may cleare ; 2. when as the partie against the truth was so prevalent within the Church of Antioch , Act. 15. 2. as that they opposed the Apostle Pau ' , and Barnabas , also in this case I doubt much if they had power to determine a question , that so much concerned all the Churches , for that was proper to a Synod of many Churches . 2. When the greatest part of a Church , as Antioch , is against the truth , as is cleare , Act. 15. 2. I beleeve in that they lose their jus , their right to determine ea●enus , in so farre , for Christ hath given no ecclesiasticall right and power to determine against the truth , but onely for the truth , and therefore in this , appeales must bee necessary . Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Herle , c. 2. p. 17. 18. say we do much Judaizein that we multiply appeales upon appeales , from the Congregation to a Classe , then to a Synod , then to a nationall assembly , then to an ●eckmenick councell , and this way , while the world indureth , causes are never determined , and Synods cannot alwayes bee had , even as in Jerusalem the supreme judicature was farre remote from all proselytes , as from the Eunuch of Aethiopia , Act. 8. and from the remotest parts of the holy Land ; But God hath provided better for us , in the New Testament , where every Congregation , which is at hand , may decide the controversie .

Answ. 1. The speedinesse of ending controversies in a congregation , is badly compensed with the suddainnesse and temerity of delivering men to Satan , upon the decision of three Elders , without so much as asking advise of any classes of Elders , and with deciding questions deepe and grave , that concerneth many Churches , which is a putting a private sickle in a common and publick harvest . 2. All appeales without just warrant from Christs will , wee condemne , as the abuse of appeales to a court , which is knowne shall never bee . 3. Antiochs appeale to a Synod two hundreth miles distant ( as our brethren say ) in so weighty a question , was no Judaizing , but that which Paul and the Apostles was guiltie of , as well as wee . 4. Matters concerning many Churches must bee handled by many .

The Doctrine of the Presbyteriall Churches of Jerusalem , Corinth , Ephesus , Antioch , vindicated .

WEe are convinced from the numerous multitude of beleevers , and the multitude of Pastors at this famous and mother Church of the Christians at Jerusalem , to beleeve the frame and mould was presbyteriall , and that it cannot bee so much as imagined or dreamed that it was moulded to the patterne of one single Congregation which could all meet 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 into one place .

The frame of an independent single Congregation is such as no more doe meet ordinarily in one house , then may conveniently bee edified , in partaking of one Word , and one breaking of bread , that is , one Table at the Supper of the Lord ; nor can wee imagine that the first mould of a Christian visible Church was so inconvenient as that it crossed edification and conversion , which is the formall effect of a Church-meeting : Now the multitude was such as could not , neither morally ; nor physically , meet in one house . For at one Table many thousands and multiplied thousands could not meer and therefore consider their number ; they were , Act. 1. a hundreth and twentie met in one place , but I shall not bee of the opinion that this was all , seeing , 1 Cor. 15. 6. Christ after his resurrection was seene of Cephas , then of the twelve , after that hee was seene of above five hundreth brethren ; then in one day at one Sermon about three thousand soules , Act. 2. 42. and ch. 4. 4. though they were apprehended who preached the Gospell , yet many of them which heard the Word beleeved , and the number of the men was about five thousand . I deny not but worthy Calvin saith , id potius de tota ecclesia , quam de nova accessione intelligendum , this was the whole number including the three thousand that were converted , c. 2. but first hee saith , Potius , hee inclineth rather to this opinion : but secondly the Text saith of those which heard the word , it would seeme to mee , at the second Sermon of Peter , and a a Augustine , : rac 39. in Ioan. Augustine , b b Chrysostom . hom . 1. hom. 33. in Matth. Chrysostome , c c Beda in Act. 10. 5. Matth. 14. Bed● , d d Basilius homil. Ps. 115. Basilius , e e Oecu●enius , in loc. Oecumenius , f f Hieronymus in Esa. c. 1. et c. 11. in illa adjiciet dominus secundo manu●n . Hieronym . g g Ireneus , l. 1. c. 11. Ireneus make this number divers from the former , so doe h h Cornelius a lapide , diversa pro●sus sunt hae e quinque millia , a tribus millibus prima concione conversis , c. 2. Cornelius a Lap. i i Salmer● in loc. distinctus numerus ab illo c. 2. Salmeron , k k Staplet . in Antido . Apostolic . c. 4. Stapletonus , (l) Sanctius , m m Lorinus non in tribus millibus computanda haec millia . Lorinus , n n Lyran. in loc. Lyranus , o o Cajetan . in loc. Cajetanus ; but we shall not contend about the matter , nor yet whether the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 includeth women , which it often doth in the Greek , as 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in Demosthenes doth also ; yet the wisdome of God in the Apostles cannot admit us to imagine that five thousand could ordinarily meet to the Word , Sacraments , and government in one house , and after this many thousands were added to this Church .

1. Our brethren say , it is one thing to say that they could not meet in one place by reason of extrinsecall impediments of persecution , and through want of a capacious and large roome , and another thing to say , that it was unpossible that they could bee one Congregation , and meet in one place , for though wee prove they could not meet because of persecution , wee doe not prove that they were so numerous that they could not conveniently meet in one place .

Answ. Though it bee evident that the Apostles were persecuted , cast in prison , and beaten , Act. 4. 3. c. 5. 18. 26. 33. 40. it is as evident that they had Assemblies , and Churches meetings , Act. 2. 37. 41. 46. c. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. c. 5. 10. v. 25. now the question then is not if they could not meet , for extrinsecall impediments of persecution ; for both our brethren and wee agree in this , that they had their Church-assemblies for Word and Sacraments , then the question is upon the supposall of Church assembles , which the persecution of the Jewes then fearing the people was not able to hinder , c. 5. 26 , whether or no was the Church at Jerusalem of such a competent number , onely as that they could meet not occasionally onely to heare a Sermon , but in an ordinary Church-meeting to heare the Word , and communicate in the breaking of bread , and seales of the Covenant ; and though the want of a capacious house bee also an extrinsecall impediment why they could not meet , yet that they wanted such a capacious house as the Temple , will prove nothing , but it cannot bee said that they wanted a capacious house for the ordinary meeting of a Congregation , the ordinary and genuine use whereof is to bee edified by the Word and Sacraments , and that an ordinary house could containe such a number of thousands and multitudes as can bee edified in a Congregationall way , is denyed .

2. Our brethren say ; that they did not eate the Supper in private houses , for the breaking of bread , Act. 2. 46. was common bread , and they had the use of the Temple , and taught in the Temple , for the Senate of the Jewes durst not extend their malice to the highest , Act. 5. 26. for they feared the people , and Act. 4. 21. So when they had s●●●her threatned them , they let them goe , finding nothing how they might punish them because of the people ; for all men glorified God , for that which was done , so the people favouring the Apostles , they made use of their libertie to the full , and bad their publick meetings for Word and Sacraments in the Temple , and did meet in private houses , Act. 20. 20. in a private way , not in a Church way , So Act. 2. 47. They had favour with all the people .

Answ. It is said these beleevers , v , 44. were 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in one place , and those who , v. 46. did eate bread 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 from house to house , met then being in one place , and ( eating of bread from house to house ) must bee exponed as wee doe , distributively , that is , divided in small Assemblies , for the argument that we bring militateth against the eating of their common meat in houses , all being in one private house ; were three thousand in ●ne place , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , all at one banquet , and that daily ? 2. It is true , divers expone the breaking of bread , v. 46. not of the Supper of the Lords yet of the banquets of love where there was an assembly of many ; but v. 42. It is cleare these three thousand did receive the Supper of the Lord together , and it is so true that the Syriack hath it in his exposition thus 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 un●isht an●hephin bavau but luthi u●aktsa●a deu●ha●rskia , it is memorable , saith Lorinus , that hee retaineth the name of Eucharistia , it a a Lerinus com in ac . 2. 42. is rendred , Et communica●ant in oratione & fractione Eucharistia , yea and b b Lutherus Serm. de Eucharistia . Lutherus and c c Calvin , Inst●t . l. 4 c. 17. Calvin both expound it so , and as d d Lorinus , ib. Lorinus , e e Cajetan . com . ib. Cajetanus , f f Corneli . a Lapide . Cornelius a Lapide , they bee all spirituall exercises named here . But how can wee imagine that many thousands could in one meeting communicate at one Table in the Lords Supper , and that ordinarily ? 1. What voyce could reach to so many thousands , as they did grow unto ? 2. What Table could suffice to a Congregation of so many thousands added to the Church , for the supper is a Table ordinance , and requireth Table communion , Table gestures , which the Apostles could not so soone remove and change into an Altar , that all might conveniently heare and bee edified . 3. Can wee beleeve , that seeing Congregationall meetings of fewer , and that in private houses , was lesse obnoxious to the indignation of authoritie , then meeting in the Temple , as is most evident , Act. 4. 1 , 2. and seeing the Apostles had libertie to meet , Act. 5. 26. that they would draw the first mould of the Christian visible Church , after the patterne of a convention most unfit , yea unpossible , for attaining the intended end , to w●t , edification , especially not being compelled thereunto , by an extrinsecall necessitie . Our brethren say , three thousand , five thousand might all communicate in one place , though not at one time , súccessively , as it is in many numerous Congregations ; But I answer 1. after they were five thousand , ch. 4. I dare say , taking in the hundreth and twentie , the five hundreth brethren that all saw Christ at once , 1 Cor. 15. 6. and the fruit of the preaching of the other ten Apostles , all now present at Jerusalem , when the 〈…〉 the Spirit on all flesh , joe . 2. 28 , 29. 〈◊〉 15 , 16 , 17. was now to take effect at this time , there were 〈◊〉 thousand , but after there all it is said , Act. 6. 1. The 〈…〉 were multiplyed , v. 7. And the Word of God 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , The 〈…〉 Disciples grew exceedingly , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 a great 〈◊〉 the Priests were obedient to the faith ; how many of the people were then obedient to the faith ? could all these make on : Congregation to eate at one Table ? But 2. when they are put to this shift , to say , that they did communicate suc 〈◊〉〈◊〉 Table , and ( which must bee ) not all in one day , then 〈◊〉 brethren grant there was not here such a Congregation as is , 1 Cor. 11. 20 When you come together therefore into one 〈…〉 eat the Lords Supper , 23. Wherefore my brethren 〈…〉 together to eate , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , tarry one for another ; when 〈◊〉 come to eate at the love-feasts , especially at the Lords Supper , saith Di●datus ; if every one of the Congregation bee to waite on while another come , then in the Apostolick Church all the Congregation came together to the Lords Supper to one place and at one time , and this is not the Congregation where of hee speaketh , 1 Cor. 14. 23. if therefore the whole Church c●me together to the same place , and all speake with tongues , 〈…〉 in th●se that are unlearned and unbeleovers , will they 〈…〉 mad ? Hence all the Congegration come together to one place , at one time , and the place was so that heathen and unbeleevers might come into their worship of the Congregation , but our brethren make the meeting of this Congregation such as they were not to s●ay one for another , 〈◊〉〈◊〉 all at one time , but successively , and so as the whole Congregation could not come to one place at once , but by 〈◊〉 and quarters , and fractions and divided parts , now one 〈◊〉 , or two thousand , then another two thousand the next day , for the Apostles then celebrating the supper at night and after Supper , 1 C●r . 11. 21. few thousands should bee able to communicate after Supper . 2. There was no necessitie , that these wise master-builders should divide the Church , and the first visible Church in so many parts , and this successive communion doth clearely prove our point , that there were many Congregations , for every successive fraction being a competent convention of beleevers having the Word and Sacraments , and so power of jurisdiction not to admit all promiscuously to the Lords Table , is to our brethren a compleat Church , for to it indeed agreeth the essentiall Characters of a visible instituted Church , for there is here a ministery , the Word and Sacraments , and some power of jurisdiction within it selfe , and so what lacketh this successive fraction of an intire Congregation ?

But what ground for so needlesse a conjecture , that the Apostolick Church did celebrate the Lords Supper in the Temple , never in private houses ? The contrary is , Act. 20. 7. And upon the first day of the weeke the Disciples came together to breake bread , Paul preached unto them , v. 8. And there were many lights in an upper Chamber , where they were conveened , so the Text is cleare , the first day of the weeke , 1 Cor. 16. 1. was the day of the Christians publick worship , and a a Augustin . ● Epist. 86. Augustine , b b Calvin , in loc. Calvin , c c Luther . Serm. de Eucharist . Lu●her , d d Melancthon . lib de usu Sacrament . Melancthon , Bullinger , e e Diodatus . ●nnot . in loc. Diodatus ; and so f f Lorinus in loc. Lorinus and g g Sancks . Sanchius say this was the Lords Supper , who can imagine that the Apostles did bring so many thousand Christians after Supper to the Temple , to celebrate a new Evangelick feast , and that immediatly after Peters first Sermon , Act. 2. 42 ? 1. Before the Apostles had informed the Jewes , that all their typicall and ceremoniall feasts were now abolished , yea while they stood in vigor , and the Apostles themselves kept them in a great part ? was this like the Spirit of the Gospel , which did beare with Moses his ceremonies for fortie yeares ?

2. The Apostles , Act. 4. 1. are indited before the Synedry , that they taught , in the Temple , Jesus Christ : if they had with so many thousands , gone to the Temple with a new extraordinary ceremoniall ordinance as a new Sacrament , so contrary in humane reason , to all the sacred Feasts , Sacrifices , and ceremonies , should not this with the first have beene put in their inditement , that they were shouldering Moses out of the Temple ? yet are they onely accused for teaching the people ; yea Christ the Law-giver , who preached the Gospell daily in the Temple , would not take the last Supper to the Temple , but celebrated it in a private Chamber ; and Paul being accused alwayes as an enemy to Moses and the Temple , his enemies the Jewes who watched him heedfully , could never put on him , that hee celebrated a Sacrament in the Temple : as for Baptisme it being a sort of washing , ( whereof the Pharisees used many , Matth. 15. Mark . 7. ) it was performed often sub di● in rivers , never in the Temple ; wee desire any author , father , ( Ocecumenius doubteth onely ) Doctor , Divine , Protestant , or Papist , late or old , who said the Apostles celebrated the Supper in the Temple .

3. Our brethren say all , These did conve●ne 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , for Act. 4. 31. When they had prayed the place was shaken where they were assembled together , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Act. 2. 46. and they continued daily with one accord in the Temple , and breaking bread from house to house , did eate their meat with gladnesse .

Answ. The place , Act. 4. 31. saith not , that all the five thousand beleevers were in that one place , which was shaken , for v. 21. that when the Apostles were let goe by the Priests and Captaines of the Temple they returned to their owne company 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to their owne , but no circumstance in the Text doth inferre that they came backe to the whole five thousand , but onely to some few of the first beleevers , that were converted before the first Sermon of Peter was made , cap. 2 , they returned , Lyra and Hugo Cardinalis , to their owne company , ad domesticos suos , and so saith Lorinus , who citeth the Syriack 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 hachaiehin ad fratres suos . Salmeron , ad suos ●apostolos , sive condiscipulos & domesticos fidei , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 doth not signifie the whole Church , but friends and domesticks , as , Mark . 5. 19. Goe home to thy own house and shew thy friends , Luke , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 compared with , Luk. 8. 39. and Gal. 6. 10 , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and 1 Tim. 5. 8. therefore the place saith that the five thousand were gathered together in this one place which was shaken . 2. Giving and not granting that they were all conveened to prayer , it doth not follow that they did meet ordinarily in one place , for partaking of Word and Sacraments , as one Congregation , for ●oe might conveene to prayer and hearing the Word , then could meet ordinarily in a Congregationall-way . Neither will any Text inforce us to expone 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , collectively , but distributively , as wee say , all the Congregations in Scotland met , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in one , every Lords day , that is , every one of the Congregations is in one place , but the sense is not that all the Congregations collectively are in one place . And wee may justly aske what this place was which was shaken , it is not like that it was the Temple , that which should have beene more prodigious like , and presaged a ruine to the Temple , would not have beene concealo● by the holy Ghost , for it would have more terrified the Jewes , and the Temple is never called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 sine adjecto , without some other thing to make it bee knowne to bee the holy place , if it was a private house , give us leave to say it could not containe five thousand to heare prayer , farre lesse a more numerous multitude .

Wee re●it it to the judgement of the wise , if the Apostles were so lazie to propagate the Gospell , that where twelve of them were present undoubtedly , Act. 4. 23 31. Act. 6. 2. and ( as many of the learned thinke , the seventie Disciples ) that eleven Apostles did heare the Word onely , and one did speake to one Congregation onely , which consisted of so many thousands , for to the five thousand , if there were no moe , c. 5. 14. mere beleevers were added to the Lord , multitudes both of men and women , who could not conveniently heare ? This I thinke not imaginable ; for 1. now the harvest was large , thousands were to bee converted . 2. The Spirit was now powred upon all flesh . 3. Christ , when hee sent the tw●lve but to Jude● , hee sent them two and two , and would have every man at worke , and the Apostles went out in twoes , Act. 13. Paul and B●rna●as and sometimes but one Peter was sent to the Jewes , Paul to the Gentiles , and the world divided amongst them , 1. of other officers Timothy is sent to Ephesus , Titus to Crete , that so they might the more swiftly spread the Gospell to all the world . What wisedome could wee imagine would lead the twelve Apostles to speake to one single Congregation met in one place , at one time ? the rest , to wit the eleven and the seventic Disciples being silent ? for in the Church the God of order will have one to speake at once , 1 Cor. 14. 31.

But our reverend brethren seeing and considering well that the Church at Jerusalem could not all meet in one Congregationall way , and that they were a Christian Church , and so behoo●ed to bee a Presbyteriall Church , they doe therefore betake themselves to another Answer , for they say that this Church at 〈…〉 an extraordinary constituted Church , and 1. wanted an Eldership , and presbytery , as Christian Churches have now : 2. the government was meerely Apostolicall : 3. the constitution was somewhat Jewish , rather then Christian , for their service was mixed with legall ordinances and Jewish observances for many yeares , and therefore cannot bee a patterne of the Christian visible Church which wee now seeke .

To which I answer . 1. Because our brethren consider that the Church of Jerusalem will not bee their independent Congregation , before wee obtaine it , for us , as a mould of a presb●t●riall Church , they had rather quit their part of it , and permit the Jewes to have it , for us both , but wee are content that their Congregations in some good sense bee given to them , and not to Jewes . 2. There is no reason , but the Church of Jerusalem bee a Christian Church ; 1. The externall profession of a visible Church maketh it a visible Christian Church , but this Church professeth faith in Christ already come in the flesh and the Sacraments of the New Testament , baptisme , and the Sacramentall breaking of bread , Act. 22. 41 , 42. wee desire to know how saving faith in a multitude constituteh an invisible Church , and the externall and blamelesse profession of that same saving faith doth not contitute a visible Church also ? and how this is not a Christian visible Church not differing in essence and nature from the 〈◊〉 Churches that now are , to which the essentiall note of a visible Church agreeth , to wit the preaching or profession of the sound faith : if it bee called an Apostolick and so an extraordinary Christian Church because the Apostles doth governe ●it , that is not enough , if the Apostles governe it , according to the rule of the word framing the visible Churches of the New Testament , this way the Church of Corinth , 1 Cor. 5. shall bee an Apostolick and so an extraordinary Church , which our brethren cannot say . But wee desire to know wherein the frame of this first patterne Christian Church at Jerusalem is so extraordinary , that it cannot bee a rule to us to draw the mould of our Churches according to it , for if the Apostles make it a patterne of an ordinary Christian Church in Word and Sacraments , to say it was extraordinary in the government , except you shew that that government was different from the rule that now is in government , is petitio principii , to begge what is in question , for these same keyes both of knowledge and jurisdiction that by your grant , were given to the Church , Matth. 18. 15 , 16 , 17. were given to the Apostles , Matth. 16 , 17 , 18. and Joh. 20. 21. If you say it is extraordinary , because as yet they had not Deacons , for the Apostles did as yet serve tables , where as afterward Act. 6. that was given to the Deacons by office , and so they had not Elders , nor Doctors , nor Pastors as we now ha●e , but the Apostles were both Pastors , Ruling Elders , Doctors , and Deacons , and they were the onely governing Eldership , and this was extraordinary that they had no Eldership , and so they were for that same cause no presbyteriall Church , whence it followeth that you cannot make this Church which had no presbytery , a patterne of a presbyteriall Church .

But I answer , this will not take off the argument , if wee shall prove that after they were more then could meet in one Congregation , and so after they were so numerous that they were moe Congregations then one , they had one common government , and 1. wee say though the Apostles had power to governe all the Churches of the world , and so many Congregations , yet if they did rule many Congregations as Elders , and not as Apostles , wee prove our point . Now we say where baptisme and the Lords Supper was , there behoved to bee some government , else the Apostles admitted promiscuously to baptisme and the Lords Supper any the most scandalous and prophane , which wee cannot thinke of the Apostles : it is true say you , they admitted not all , but according to the rule of right government , but this right government was extraordinary , in that it was not in a setled Eldership of a Congregation , which was oblieged to reside and personally to watch over that determinate flock , and no other flock , but it was in the hands of the Apostles , who might goe through all the world to preach the Gospell , and were not tied to any particular flock : and so from this neither can you draw your classicall Eldership , nor wee our Congregationall Eldership .

But I answer , yet the question is begged , for though it bee unlawfull for a setled Eldership not to reside where their charge is , yet the question is now of a government in the hands of those who are oblieged to reside and give personall attendance to the flock , and the government in the hands of the Apostles , who were not oblieged to personall attendance over this and this particular flock , which they did governe ; were governments so different in nature , as the one is a patterne to us , not the other , and the one followeth rules different in nature and spirit from the other ; for though it were granted that the Apostles did governe many Congregations as Apostles , not as Elders , yet there was no extraordinary reason why these many Congregations should bee called one Church , and the beleevers added to them , said to bee added to the Church , as it is said , Act. 2. 47. And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should bee saved , except this Church bee one entire body governed and ruled according to Christs Lawes . 2. There bee seven Descons chosen to this Church , Act. 6. and Deacons are officers of the Church of Philippi which our brethren calleth Phil. 1. 1. a Congregationall Church , and Pnebe was a Deaconisse ( say they ) of the Church of Cenchrea , Rom. 16. 1. and if they had Deacons , they could not want Elders , who are as necessary . 3. This Church could not bee so extraordinary as that it cannot bee a patterne to us of the constant government of Churches by Elders , which wee call Aristocraticall , seeing it is brought as a patterne of the Churches government by the voices of the people , which is called by Divines , in some respect , democraticall , and this place is alledged by our brethren , and by all Protestant Divines against Bishops and Papists to prove that the people have some hand in government , to wit , in election of officers , and so the words are cleare , Act. 6. 5. And this saying pleased the whole multitude , and they choosed Steven , &c. so this multitude did not make one Congregationall Church , but it was a company of the multiplied disciples , both of Grecians and Hebrews , as is clearely related to these spoken of , v. 1. c. 6. Now Hebrewes and Grccians were directly one Church having one government , and seven Deacons , common to both , now that could not bee a single independent Congregation , as is already proved . 4. If the con●titution of this Church at Jerusalem bee sewish , because of some Jewish observations , and so no patterne of the frame of ordinary visible Churches Christian ; I say 1. this is no good argument , seeing the Christian visible Church , and the Jewish visible Church is of that same frame and constitution , having that same faith , s●all grant , except Papists , Socinians and Armini●ns , and so that same profession of that same faith . 2. If this were a good reason , then all the Churches of the Gentiles which are commanded for a time , in the case of scandall , to observe some Jewish Lawes , to abstaine from eating meates offered to Id●ls , and from blood , and from things strangled , Act. 15. 29. Act. 16. 4. shall bee also Churches in their constitution Jewish , and so no patterne to us ; and the Church of Rome and of Corinth shall bee Jewish also , and no patterne to us , because in case of scandall they are to abstaine from meats forbidden in the Law of Moses , Rom. 14. 1 Cor. 8. c. 10. but this our brethren cannot teach . 5. Though Apostles did governe all these Congregations , yet wee are not to thinke● that seeing there were such abundance of gifted men in this Church , on which the Spirit , according to Joels prophecie , was powred in so large a measure , that they did not appoint Elders who did personally watch over the converted flock , especially seeing Apostles use never this Apostolicall and extraordinary power , but in case of necessitie , where ordinary helpes are wanting , else this answer might elude all reasons drawn from the first moulded Churches which were planted by the Apostles and watered by their helpers . But I have heard some say , that multitude of Pastors at Jerusalem doth not prove that the Apostles were idle , if they did all attend me Congregation , because they had worke enough in the Synagogues 〈◊〉 convert the unconverted Jewes , all the twelve did not labour in preaching to the one single new converted Congregation .

Answ. But if you lay downe our brethrens supposition , that the Apostles had no publick meetings for the Word and Sacraments of the Christian Church , but the Temple , and that they ceased not daily in the Temple , and from house to house to teach and preach Christ , as is said , Act. 5. 42. then consider that they preached not daily in the Synagogues , but in the Temple and i● houses , and their first conquest of five thousand was above three Congregations , beside those who daily came In : and c●r●ainly it the first was but one Congregation , yet one of the twelve preached to that Congregation , the other eleven b●hoor●d to have a Congregation also . 6. Our brethren acknowledge the Church of Jerusalem to be one Church , for it is called , even before the dispersion , one Church in the singular number , Act. 2. 47. And the Lord added to the Church daily . 〈◊〉 as should bee saved , Act. 5. 11. Great feare came upon all the Church , and Act. 8 1. A● that time there was a great persecution 〈◊〉 Church . 2. They grant before the disportion that it had a government , but they deny this government to bee presbyterial , thy s●y it was Apostolick and extraordinary , and that it had not in Eldership , nor read wee of any Elders till after the dispersion , Act. 8 1. When their number was diminished , so as it is cleare they 〈◊〉 meet in one Congregation . 3. You must prove this government bee one if you prove a Presbyteriall Church at Jerusalem . 4. 〈◊〉 must prove divers formed and organicall and severall Con●●●nions at Jerusalem , if you prove such presbyteriall Churches as 〈◊〉 have in Scotland ; but I pray you , The Apostles ( you say ) 〈◊〉 the Church of Jerusalem as Apostles , and so as extraordinary Elders , not as an ordinary Eldership and Presbytery , but give mee leave to say this is a meere shift . 1. What reason to call the Apostles governing of the Church extraordinary , more then their preaching the Word and their administration of the Sacraments is extraordinary ? and if Word and Sacraments doe prove that this was the first visible Church and a type and patterne to all visible Churches , why should its government bee extraordinary ? 2. Why should the government bee extraordinary , because the Apostles did governe it , in respect they were extraordinary officers , and should not the government bee by the Apostles ; and exercised by them as a common ordinary presbytery , seeing this Church in its goods , was governed by seven ordinary and constant Chu●ch-officers , the seven Deacons ? Act. 6. and seeing the people did exercise an act of ordination ( say our brethren ) but an act of popular election ( say wee ) which cannot bee denynyed to bee a politick act of divers Churches , Hebrewes and Grecians choosing their owne ordinary officers in relation to which they made one governed Church , under one common government , which is not congregationall ; because not of one Congregation , but of moe Congregations conveened in their principall members ( for they could not all meet in one , as wee have proved ) Ergo , it must bee presbyteriall . And that this government is one to mee is evident , because these seven Deacons were officers in ordinary to them all . 3. Wee see not how wee need to prove that the severall Congregations were severall formed , fixed and organicall bodies ; 1. Because it shall bee hard to our brethren to prove a Parishionall Church in its locall circuit in the Apostolick Church , and when Churches were moulded and framed first in locall circuits of parishes , I will not undertake to determine . 2. Ten Congregations in a great Citie , though not moulded locally and formally in ten little distinct Churches organicall , yet if sixteene or twentie Elders in common feede them all , with Word , Seales and common government , they differ not in nature from ten formed and fixed Congregations , and the government is as truely Aristocraticall , and presbyteriall , as if every one of them had their owne fixed Eldership out of these sixteene Elders , for fixing of this or this Elder to this or this Congregation is but accidentall to the nature of an organicall Church ; if ten little Cities have ten magistrates who ruleth them all in common , they are ten perfect politicall incorporations and societies , no lesse then if to every one of these ten were a fixed magistrate , to this or this citie ; Because the King and State might accuse them all for any misgovernment or act of unjustice done by the whole ten conveened in one judicature to judge themall ; for what unjustice is done by the major part is to bee imputed to the whole colledge , in so farre as the whole colledge hath hand in it . 2. The formall acts of a politicall Congregation not fixed are one and the same in nature and essence with the formall Church-acts of a fixed Congregation ; For 1. the Word and Sacraments are one and the same : 2. their acts of government , in rebuking , accusing , and joynt consenting to deliver to Satan an incestuous man are one and the same , whether the Congregation bee fixed , or not fixed ; shew us a difference .

But it is said , they are different in a politicall or in a Church-consideration , 1. Because this determinate Congregation is to subject their consciences in the Lord , to this fixed Eldership whom they have called and chosen to bee their Elders , and not to the ministery of any others , as 1 Thess. 5. 12. Know them that labour amongst you , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , ( not those who are over others , ) and that are over you , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and are over you in the Lord , not over others , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and adm●nish you , not others : and 2. The Pastors are to feed such a flocke over which the holy Ghost hath set them , Acts 20. 28. and they are to feede the flocke amongst them , 1 Pet. 5. 2. not any other , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , therefore Pastors are fixed by the holy Ghost to a fixed congregation . 3. Pastors are not rebuked by the Spirit of God , for remisse exercise of jurisdiction and Church-power , but over their owne fixed Congregation , not because they doe not exercise their power over other Congregations over which they are not , and for whose soules they do not watch , as is evident in the severall rebukes tendered by Christ to every Angell or Eldership of the seven Churches in Asia , Revel. 2. c. 3. where every Angel and Church is rebuked for their owne omissions towards their owne fixed and particular flocks .

Answ. The places doe not come up , to prove fixed Congregations in the Apostles times ; for 1. wee deny that the Church of Thessalonica was one single fixed Congregation , or the Church of Ephesus either , and farre lesse can the Churches of Pontus , Galatia , Cappadocia , Asia , and Bythinia , to which Peter writeth , and whose Elders , 1 Pet. 5. 1. 2. hee exhorteth to feede the flock of God , bee one fixed Congregation , nor doe they prove that fixed Congregations were , though I thinke it not unprobable that when Phebe , Rom. 16. 1. is called a Deac●nisse of the Church , which is at Cenchrea , that there were fixed Congregations at that time , but many things not without apparent strength of much probabilitie may bee said by the learned , on the contrary . 2. The Eldership of Ephesus I dare not call the Eldership of one Congregation , farre lesse of one fixed Congregation , and they are all commanded to feed the flocke over which the holy Ghost had set them , and no other Church that is most true . But how doe our brethren inferre a fixed Congregation at Ephesus from thence ? farre lesse I think can they in ferre that the formall Church-acts of a fixed , and a not fixed Congregation are different in nature ; and therefore , if we can show that in the Apostolick Churches they had many Congregations though not fixed , under one common Eldership , which did feed them in common with Word , Sacraments and Discipline , as is clearely proved , then have wee a patterne of a Presbyteriall Church . 3. The Elders of Ephesus and these Elders , 1 Pet. 5. 1 , 2 , 3. had all of them a burden of the soules amongst them , and over which the holy Ghost had set them , and they had not a burden and charge in particular of others as watching in particular for the soules of others : but how fixed Congregations are hence inferred I see not , for I may have with other six Pastors , a Pastorall burden and charge to watch for three Congregations , according to my talent and strength , though I bee not a fixed pastor to all the three collectively , or to any fixed one distributively , so as all the omissions of my six fellow-labourors shall bee laid to my charge , in the Court of the Judge and Lord of all , if I do what I am able : which I demonstrate thus . 1. That morall obligation of conscience which did obliege the Apostles as Pastors of the Christian world which was to bee converted , is not temporary but perpetuall and morall and did obliege the Apostles as Christians . Therefore this morall , obligation did lie upon the Apostles to feed the Catholick fiocke of the whole Christian world over which the holy Ghost had set them , just as the Elders of Ephesus , Act. 20. 28. are commanded to feed the whole flock of God which is at Ephesus : now I aske if every single Apostle is to make a reckoning to God for the soules of all the Christian world ? 2. If Peter must bee answerable to God , because Paul by negligence should incurre the woe of not preaching the Gospell , 1 Cor. 9. 16 ? ( 3. ) If upon this morall ground of an obligation lying on the Apostles to feed the Catholick flock of the whole world , amongst which they were , for the most part , by speciall commandement of Christ , to preach to all nations , Matth. 28. 19. to every creature , Mark . 16. v. 15. If ( I say ) the Apostles bee tied to plant Churches in such determinate quarters and fixed kingdomes of the habitable world , and if the dividing of the world into twelve severall parts , and large parishes to the twelve Apostles , bee juris divini , of divine institution ? I believe this can hardly bee proved by Gods Word . 2. Where there bee six Elders in a Congregation supposed to bee independent , every one of the six are oblieged in their place to feed the whole flocke , over which the holy Ghost hath set them , and that by the commandement of God , Act. 20. 28. 29. 1 Pet. 5. 1. as our brethren teach , but I hope by these places no humane logick would inferre , nor could our brethrèn collect , that , 1. every one of these six should , by divine institution , bee set over each of them the sixt determinate and sixt part of that Congregation . 2. That every one of the sixt were not to give a reckoning for the whole Congregation , and did not watch for the whole Congregation according to his Talent . 3. That one might not be accused , even one Archippus possibly at Colosse , Col. 4. 17 ▪ for his owne particular neglect to the whole flock , though others were also joyned with Archippus who fulfilled their part of their ministery , Col. 2. v. 5. yea & we justly aske if all the Elders of Thyatira were guiltie of remisse discipline against the false Prophetesse Jezabell , and if all the Church of Sardis did become sleepie , and secure , and had a name that they were living , and yet were dead , though the Eldership under the name of the Angel of the Church , bee indefinitely rebuked , Revel. 2. 20. c. 3. 1 , 2 , 3. 4. yea it is like to mee that seeing the Lord Jesus commendeth the one for love , service , faith , patience , Revel. 2. 19. and the other , that c. 3. 4 they had a few names that had not defiled their garments , that onely those who were guiltie , were rebuked , I beleeve , and therefore this is to bee proved that Elders are not rebuked , but for their remisse watching over an unfixed Congregation , the places to me , doe not prove it .

Now whereas our brethren say , that they read of no Eldership before the dispersion of the Church at Jerusalem , Act. 8. 1. and therefore of no presbyteriall government , and after the dispersion , the number was so diminished as they might all meet in one Congregation , bec●use it is said , Act. 8. 1. They were all scattered abroad through●●● the regions of Iudea and Samaria except the Apostles . It is easily answered .

1. To what effect should the twelve Apostles not also have followed their scattered flocks , and to what end did twelve Apostles stay at Jerusalem to preach to one single handfull , that might all conveniently meet in one house , and a private house , for I thinke the persecution could as easily put them from publick meetings in the Temple and Synagogues , as it could scatter them all to so few a number as one congregation ? was the the harvest so great , and the Apostolick labourers so sparing in reaping , as eleven should bee hearers in one Congregation ? and one speake onely at once ?

2. Our brethren may know that wee prove a Presbyterlall government before the dispersion . 3. If our brethren elide the force of our argument from multitude of beleevers at Jerusalem , to prove a presbyteriall Church , they must prove that this dispersion did so dissolve the Church as that three thousand , Act. 2. and some added daily , v. 47. and five thousand , Act. 4. 4. and beleevers more added , multitudes both of men and women , Act. 5. 14. and Jerusalem was filled with the doctrine of the Apostles , c. 5. 28. and yet the number of the Disciples multiplied , c. 6. 1. and the Word of God increased , and the number of the Disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly , and a great company of the Priests were obedient to the faith , they must ( I say ) prove ( for affirmanti incumbit probatio ) that all this number and all these thousands by the dispersion , Act. 8. 1. came to one thousand and to a handfull of a single Congregation .

3. I see no necessitie that these ( all ) be the whole body of the Church , I grant Diod●tus saith so , and a a Ba●on . An. 1. Baronius conjectureth that there were fifteene thousand killed at this first persecution , b b Dorotheus l de vit. & mor. prophet . & Apostol. but Dorotheus saith there were but two thousand killed , and (c) Salmeron saith of Dorotheus his relation , Quae si vera sunt , profecta magna fuit persecutio , if it bee true , the persecution was indeed great , and wee cannot but thinke , seeing the spirit of God saith (b) Salme ron , com . in Ac. 8. this was a great persecution , but the Church was greatly diminished : but let us see if the Text will beare that so many thousands ( for I judge at this time that the Church hath been above ten thousands ) were partly killed , partly scattered , so that the Church of Jerusalem came to one single Congregation which might meet ordinarily for Word and Sacran●ents in one private house , where the tewelve Apostles came to them : for my part I cannot see it in the Text , onely the persecution was great . 2. All were scattered except the Apostles . 3. Act. 26. Paul saith of himselfe at this time , 10. Many of the Saints did I shut up in prison , having received authoritie from the high Priests , and when they were put to death , I gave my voyce against them . 11. And I punished them oft in every Synagogue , and compelled them to blaspheme , and being exceedingly mad against them , I persecuted them to strange Cities ; all which saith many were imprisoned . 2. Some scattered , but the Text saith not that thousands were put to death , and it is not like that the holy Ghost who setteth downe the other sort of persecution and the death of Steven , would have beene silent of the killing of thousands . 3. Whereas it is said , they were all scattered except the Apostles , I see no ground of the Text to say that by ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) all scattered , hee understandeth , all the Disciples as d d Lyran. an . in loc. Lyranus saith , so saith e e Eus●bius l. 2 histo. Eccle. c 1. Eusebius , though f f Sanctius com ib. Sanctius saith hee meaneth of the 70. Disciples . And my reasons are , 1. The Text saith , v. 3. Saul entering into every house , ●aling men and women committed them to prison , as you may read , Act. 26. 10 , 11. Ergo , all and every one without exception of any , save the Apostles , were not scattered . 2. Amongst so many thousands of men and women , many for age , weakenesse and sicknesse , and having young Answ to q. 29. & 2. children , and women with child were not able to flee , therefore ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) cannot bee taken according to the letter every way . 3. Paul after this dispersion , Act. 26. 11. punished them in every Synagogne . What ? punished hee Jewes ? no Christians ; Ergo , after the dispersion there were Christians left in Synagogues at Jerusalem which were not dispersed . 4. The Text saith that the scattered abroad were Preachers , and as I prove elsewhere here after , extraordinary Prophets , and therefore all were scattered except the Apostles , seemeth to imply that especially the whole teachers were scattered , except the Apostles ; and g g Chrysost. in lcc . Chrysostome , h h Athanasi . ● Serm. de sem. Athanasius , i i Nyssenus or at de S. Stephano . Nissenus observes that God out of this persecution tooke occasion to spread the Gospell , by sending scattered Preachers to all the regions about , so k k Lorinus in certum an omnino omnes ( dispersi ) an soli antiquores discipuli . Lorinus , l l Sanctius ib. Sanctius , m m Cor. a Lapide , ib. Cornelius a Lapide , say they were not all sattered , and n n Cajeta . in lo. Cajetan exponeth these ( all ) onely of those upon whom the holy Ghost descended . 4. Though this Church should come to one Congregation now , this is but by accident , and from extrinsecall causes of persecution and scattering , but wee have proved at the first founding of this Church Apostolick the Church of Jerusalem called one Church , the first draught and patterne of the visible Christian Church was such as could containe many Congregations , and could not all meet in one . 5. There is no ground to say that Apostles after this dispersion erected an ordinary Eldership in Jerusalem , whereas before there was an extraordinary , because the Apostles was present with them , and you read of no Elders while after the dispersion , because 1. you read not of the institution of ordinarie Elders in the Church of Jerusalem after the dispersion , more then before , and so you are here upon conjectures . 2. There is no ground to say that the Apostles changed the government of the first patterne of the Christian Churches from extraordinary to ordinary . 3. Nor is there ground that the government of the first samplar of Instituted Churches of the New Testament , should rather bee extraordinarie , then that first ordering of the Word and Sacraments should bee extraordinary , seeing the Apostles the first founders of instituted Churches under the New Testament , had as ordinary matter to institute an ordinary presbytery and government , having beleevers in such abundance , upon whom , by the laying on of hands , they might give the Holy Ghost , as they had ordinary matter , to wit , a warrant , and command from Christ , to preach and administer the Sacraments . 4. The Apostles abode many yeares at Jerusalem , after there was an erected Eldership , Act. 15. 2. 22. Act. 16. 4. Act. 21. 18 , 19 , 20. Gal. 1. 18 After three yeares I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter , Gal. 2. 1. Then foureture yeeres after , I went up againe to Jerusalem , &c. 9. And when James , Cephas , and John who seemed to bee pillars , perceived the grace that was given unto mee , they gave to mee and Barnabas the right hands fellowship . 5. Though wee should give , and not grant that this dispersion did bring the Church of Jerusalem to so low an ebbe as to make it but one single Congregation , yet after the dispersion , all the Churches , Act. 9. 3. had peace , and were edified , and multiplyed , and so the Church of Jerusalem also was multiplied , if all France be multiplied , Paris which is a part of France must bee multiplied , and if there were many thousands of the Jewes that did beleeve , Act. 21. 20. though these many were for a great part come up to the feast at Pentecost , as some thinke , yet may wee well thinke a huge number of these thousands were of the Church of Jerusalem : it is said , v. 21. They are informed of thee that thou teachest all the Jewes which are amongst the Gentiles to forsak Moses , these belike were the Jewes at Jerusalem who heard that Paul was come to Jerusalem , and Act. 12. 24. The Word of God grew and multiplied ; it is the same phrase that is used , Act. 6. v. 7. to expresse the multiplying of the Church , by the multiplying of the Word , for there is no other multiplication of the Word but in the hearts of numbers who receive the Word in faith .

Our brethren object ; 1. Though there bee Elders at Jerusalem , Act. 15. 2. v. 4. and Act. 21. 18. yet that doth not prove an Eldership o● a formall presbytery , even a presbytery of a classicall Church doth not prove that these Classicall Elders are Elders of a Classicall Church .

Answ. Our brethren should give to us the measure which they take to themselves , for they prove from that which the Scripture , Act. 20. 28. doe name the Elders of the Church of Ephesus that there was an Eldership at Ephesus , which governed all the people of Ephesus ; and from Bishops and Deacons at Philippi , Phil. 1. 1. that there was an Eldership in that Church ; and from the Angel of the Church of Smyrna , Pergamus , Thyrtira , &c. that there was a colledge of Elders or a Presbytery in those Churches : for if those Churches had elders in them , though they were in their meaning Elders of a particular Congregation , and so an Eldership and a presbytery , they must give us the favour of the like consequence , in many of those Churches , they had Elders ; Ergo , they had a presbyteriall or classicall Eldership , and the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is as seldome in Scripture to our brethren to prove their Congregationall Eldership , as it is to us to prove our Presbyteriall or classicall Eldership , and in this , jam sumns ergo pares ; and one government , and combination voluntary under one Congregationall presbytery shall bee as hardly proven , as one government , and one voluntary combination of many Congregations , and where the multitude is so numerous , as that they cannot meet in one , it is unpossible to prove that so many thousands did all agree , and that according to Christs institution , to meet ordinarily in one for doctrine and discipline , whereas the meeting in one of so many thousands is most inconvenient . 2. An Eldership doth prove there is a relation of those that make up the Eldership to all the Church distributively to which they have the relation of Elders , but doth not prove that the Eldership is an Eldership in a Church-relation to any one single person , and that that single person hath a reciprocall Church relation to that Eldership ; so here the classicall Eldership carrieth a relation to a classicall Church , and a classicall Church doth retort and reflect a reciprocall relation to the Eldership , but it doth not follow that every Congregation of the Classicall Church doth reflect a reciprocall relation of a Church classicall to either the classicall Eldership , or to any one Elder of the classicall presbytery .

2. They affirme , that there was no presbyteriall government exercised by the Apostles in the Church of Jerusalem ; for they say , for the substance of the Act ( it is true ) The Apostles did governe as Elders , that is , their Acts of government were not different from the Acts of government of ordinary Elders : but the Apostles did not governe under this formall reduplication as ordinary Elders , but as Apostles , because as Apostles they were Elders both in the Church of Jerusalem , and in all Churches of the world : but this proveth not an ordinary Eldership , Titus at Crete did but the ordinary Acts of an ordinary Elder at Crete in appointing Elders in every citie , yet this proveth not that there is in the successors of Titus an ordinary Episcopall government , for because of the extent of the Apostles power to all Churches on earth , you may from this prove as well an Episcopall power as a presbyteriall power in an Eldership over many Congregations ; and before you prove a presbyteriall power you must prove an extent and an ordinary extent of an Eldership over many Congregations , which you shall never prove from the extent of the Apostles power , which was universall and alike in all Churches .

I answer , if our brethren had formed their arguments in a syllogisme , I could more easily have answered , but I will doe it for them . Those who did rule with an universall extent of power of government in all Churches , these did rule as Apostolick rulers , and not as ordinary presbyters , in the ruling and governing the Church of Jerusalem : but the Apostles before the dispersion did rule thus , Ergo , the Apostles before the dispersion did rule as Apostles , not as ordinary presbyters . The proposition they make good , because if those who rule with an universall extent of power , doe it not as Apostles , they have then prelates to succeed them as ordinary officers in their extent of power and extent of pastorall care over many Churches .

But I answer by granting the major , and the probation of it in the connex proposition , because those who rule with an universall extent of power doe it as Apostles , but I deny the assumption that the twelve Apostles did rule the Church of Jerusalem with an universall extent of power over all Churches ; for it is true , the Apostles who did governe the Church of Jerusalem had an universall power over all Churches , but that they did rule the Church of Jerusalem as having this universall power , and by virtue of this universall and Apostolicall power , I utterly deny , and I deny it with the reduplication , and except our brethren prove that the Apostles did governe the Church of Jerusalem as having this Apostolick power , and under this reduplication , they doe not prove that they ruled as Apostles , which is the conclusion to bee proven . Now that I may give a solid reason of this , wee are to consider , what Apostles doe as Apostles and what as ordinary Elders , as take along this rule with you , what Apostles doe as Apostles ; every one of the Apostles his alone may doe , as quod convenit 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , conv●nit 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , What ever agreeth to an Apostle as ●● Apostle , agreeth to all Apostles , as because Apostles may worke miracles , any one Apostle may worke a miracle , so Peter his alone , extra collegium , when hee is not with the twelve , hee may worke a miracle , his alone hee may speake with tongues , and his alone hee may preach and baptize through all the world , and therefore Peter as an Apostle , not as an ordinary Elder doth raise the dead , speake with tongues , preach and baptize in all nations without any calling of the people or without consent of the presbytery ; but what the Apostles doe as ordinary presbyters , and as a classicall Colledge that by cannot doe in that relation , but in collegie : as the eye doth not see but as fixed in the head , so when the Apostles do any thing in collegio , not without the suffrages of a colledge , that they must doe as ordinary Elders ; for example , Paul if hee delivered Hymeneus and Alexander his alone to Satan , 1 Tim. 1. 20. as many thinke hee did , then hee did that as an Apostle ; but suppose hee had beene present at Corinth , 1 Cor. 5. to obey his owne Epistle and direction that hee gave to excommunicate the incestuous man , hee should with the Eldership of Corinth delivered him to Satan as an Elder , not as an Apostle ; yea in a presbyteriall way Paul could not have delivered him to Sathan without the concurring joynt suffrages of the Eldership of Corinth . So because Act. 6. 1. 2. 3. the whole twelve doe call together the multitude , the whole twelve doe that as ordinary Elders , which I prove , for if they had conveened them as Apostles , by that transcendent Apostolick power by which they preach and baptize in all the Churches and by which they raise the dead , Peter his alone might have conveened them ; so they ordaine Elders by imposition of hands , as an ordinary Eldership now doth , all the twelve doe it in a Court , whereas if they had put on these seven men to bee Deacons upon the people by vertue of their Apostolick calling , they should not have convened the people , nor sought the free consent of the people ; for any one Apostle his alone , as Peter might , by the transcendent power of an Apostle have ordained those seven men to bee Deacons , but then hee should clearely have done it not in an ordinary Church way , so now the Apostles must , Act. 6. governe as ordinary Elders , also what the Apostles do by the interveening help of ordinary perpetually established meanes , that they doe not as Apostles but as ordinary Elders , as they work not miracles by advise and consent of the multitude , because they do it as Apostles , but here the twelve do all by the interveening help of the ordinary and perpetually established free voices of the multitude . 1. Because the twelve Apostles conveene . The Apostles did nothing in vaine , and without warrant , any one of the twelve might have instituted the office , then that all the twelve conveene it must bee to give a pattern of an ordinary Eldership ; for you never finde all the twelve meet to doe with joynt Forces an Apostolick worke , they never met all twelve to pen a portion of Scripture , twelve of them , nor a colledge of them never met to raise the dead , to worke a miracle , to speake with tongues , because these bee workes above nature , and one is no lesse an instrument of omnipotencie to work a miracle , then 12. or 20. therefore wee must say that these twelve conveened as ordinary Elders to bee a patterne of a presbytery . 2. The complaint is made by the Grecians to the court , not to one Apostle , for the whole twelve doth r●dresse the matter . 3. Tht colledge hath a common hand in this government for the poore , as their words cleare . 2. It is no reason that wee should leave the Word of God , and serve Tables . 4. They put on the people what is their due , to looke out and nominate to them seven men , as Apostles they should have chosen the men . 5. They doe put off themselves the charge of Deaconrie , and the daily care , as v. 1. Ergo they were before daily constant Deacons , and why not Elders also ? 6. They will doe nothing with out the free voices of people , and give to the people the ordinary election , this day , and to Christs second comming , due to them , Ergo , the Apostles stoope beneath the spheare of Apostolick power and condescend to popular power , and so must here bee as ordinary Elders , not as Apostles . 7. They doe ordaine seven men to be constant officers . 2. From this it is easie to deny that we may as well inferre Prelates to be the lawfull successors of T●us whose power was universall in every Church of Crete , as to in●erre a presbyteriall power , because Titus his alone 〈◊〉 an 〈◊〉 appointed Elders ; and wee cannot inferre a Monarchi● in the Church , from some extraordinary acts of the the first planters of Churches , because wee inferre from the Aristocraticall and ordinary power of the Apostles an Aristocraticall power of presbyteries now in the Church , shall wee hence inferre a Monarchie ? 3. If the Acts of government performed here , Act. 6. by the Apostles , bee extraordinary and Apostolick , they are not imitable by us , but all Divines teach that from Act. 6. the ordinary presbytery may according to this very patterne ordaine Deacons and Elders .

The reverend brethren object . The Apostles did ordaine a new office here , to wit , an office of Deacons , as all our Divi●●s prove from the place , but the Apostles as ordinary Elders in an ordinary Colledge presbyteriall cannot appoint a new Office in the Church , for the presbyteries now also by that same presbyteriall power might also appoint a new office in Gods house which is absurd .

Answ. I grant that the Apostles as Apostles performe some Acts of government in this place , and that they appoint a new office of Deacons here , but that is neither the question , nor against our cause , but I desire the opponents to make good that the Apostles did appoint this new office in a Church-way , as they ordaine these seven men to the office , and that , in collegio . I aske did the Apostles , 1. Crave the concurrence of the conveened multitude , and their free voices shall wee appoint this new office , men and brethren , or shall wee for beare ? 2. Did they voice the matter in a colledge amongst themselves , as they doe Act. 15. and do they say amongst themselves in the presbytery Apostolick , have wee warrant from Christ to appoint a new office of Deacons ? What is your mind Peter , what is your sentence , James , Matthias , & c ? now this is to proceed formally , in collegio , this they did not , nor could they doe in appointing the office , for they were immediatly inspired by the Spirit to appoint new offices , but in ordaining the officers , in concreto , that is , in ordaining the men , Steven , Philip , &c. they proceed after a presbyteriall way , every way as an ordinary presbytery doth .

Object . But they ordaine Elders here upon this Apostolick ●round , because they were Apostles and Pastors to all the world , &c. if the ground was Apostolick , the action was formally Apostolick .

Answ. Wee must distinguish betwixt ordination comparative and absolute : ordination comparative is in relation to the place , if the question bee , upon what ground doe the Apostles ordaine in all the world ; I answer because they are Apostles , and every where , Ergo , they may ordaine every where ; but as for absolute ordination , here in Jerusalem , if the question bewhy they did ordaine Stephen , Philip , &c. tali modo , by conveening the Church ; I answer , because the Apostles were Elders . But our brethren say , Then the Apostles in this act laid downe their infallible Apostolick spirit . I answer , they laid downe the ininfallible spirit , which they had as Apostles , and tooke them to ● fallible spirit , but they did not operate and governe in this Act , from this infallible spirit , but from an ordinary spirit , else you must say , 1. when the Apostles did eate and drinke , they laid downe an infallible and Apostolick spirit , and tooke an ordinary and fallible spirit , for they did not eate and drinke by immediate inspiration and as Apostles , but as men ; 2. because they were Apostles where ever they came , it shall follow by this that they did all by this Apostolick spirit ; as if the question bee upon what ground , Did the Apostles every where baptize , pray pasi●a●●y , exhort as Pastors , governe in Corinth , deliver the incestuous man to Satan at Corinth ? If you answer , because they were Apostles , then I say because they were Apostles alwayes , and in every place , they never used the ordinary power of the keyes given to them , as common to them and all Pastors to the end of the world , Matth. 18. 18. Matth. 16. 19. John 20. 23. and so they could not doe any thing as ordinary Pastors , or ordinary Elders . 2. Christ gave to the Apostles an ordinary power which they could never put forth in Acts 3. we have no warrant from the Apostles preaching , baptizing , exhorting , governing , retaining and remitting sinnes , excommunicating , rebuking , to preach , baptize , exhort , governe , retaine and remit sinnes , excommunicate and rebuke , because the Apostles , in Acts Apostolick and extraordinary , are no more to bee imitated by us , then wee are to imitate them in speaking with divers tongues , and raising the dead .

Hence upon these grounds wee are certainly induced to beleeve that the Apostles did here ordaine , not as Apostles , but as ordinary Elders ; 1. Because in these Acts the Apostles are imitable , but in what they doe as Apostles they are not imitable .

2. What ever rules of the Word doth regulate the ordinary classicall presbytery , the Apostles goe along in all these acts here condescending to these rules , such as the meeting of the presbytery , the twelve do meet . 2. They tacitely acknowledge a neglect of the daily ministration to the widowes which is an act of misgovernment of the Deaconrie , which is an ordinary office of the presbytery , and therefore they desire of the Church to bee freed of this office . 3. They referre the nomination and election of the seven men to the people . 4. They ordaine seven constant and perpetuall officers , as the presbytery doth , Ergo , they doe not ordaine by their transcendent power , as Apostles .

3. From this place our brethren prove their Congregationall presbytery , which they would not doe , if the Apostles did here manage aff●ires as extraordinary officers . 4. This colle●ium of Apostles doe nothing in all this , which by confession of both sides may not bee done , and to the end of the world is not done in the transacting of the like businesse , by the ordinary presbytery . 4. What the Apostles doe as Apostles agreeth onely to Apostles , and can be done by none but Apostles , or by Evangelists , having their power , by speciall warrantable commission from them , as what a man doth as a man , what a Pastor doth as a Pastor , a Deacon as a Deacon , a Prophet as a Prophet , can bee done by none but by a man onely , a Pastor onely , a Deacon onely , except whereas one Act , as to teach , agreeth both to a Pastor and a Doctor , which yet have their owne differences , but all here done the Apostles might have done , if wee suppose , they had not beene Apostles . 5. If as Apostles they ordaine , any one of the twelve Apostles should compleatly and entirely ordaine all the seven , and so the seven Deacons should have beene twelve times ordained at this time , which needles multiplication of Apostolick actions were uselesse , served not for edification , and is not grounded in the Word , for the whole twelve , in collegio , doe ordaine , and what any one Apostle doth as an Apostle by the amplitude of a transcendent power , every Apostle doth it compleatly , and wholly his alone , as without helpe of another Apostle , Peter worketh a miracle , especially any one Apostle as Paul his alone might ordaine Timothy an Evangelist . 6. If they did here act as Apostles , any one Apostle might have ordained the Deacons in an ordinary way , as here ; but that wee cannot conceive , for then one and the same action should have beene ordinary , and not ordinary , for one man cannot bee a Church or a societie to doe the ordinary Acts of an ordinary societie , for it should bee extraordinary to one to act that which is the formall Act of many as many , and should involve a contradiction , except it were an Act which cannot bee performed by many , as when one Paster speaketh for many , for a whole Church ; but that is ordinary and necessary , because a multitude as a multitude cannot speake , without confusion in a continuated discourse , for that all the people say one word ( Amen ) is not a multitude as a multitude using one continuated speech .

Object . 1. If the Apostles did not all their Ministeriall acts as Apostles , they did not fulfill their commission given to them , as to Apostles , Matth. 28. Goe and teach all Nations .

Answ. The consequence is nought , if they had not done all things , which by vertue of their Apostolicall Office they were commanded to doe , they had not then fulfilled their commission given to them by Christ . That is true , but now the assumption is false , they were under no commandement of Christ to doe all their Ministeriall Acts as Apostles , prove that they did neither Preach , nor Baptize as Apostles ; but only as Apostles they did preach infallibly . 2. In all places of the world , as Catholick Pastors . 3. With the gift of Tongues . 4. Working of Miracles , which by divine institution were annexed to their preaching , but their preaching according to the substance of the act was ordinary .

Object . 2. The Apostles went to Jerusalem by revelation , as Paul did , Gal. 1. Ergo , all their acts that they did there , they did them by immediate revelation .

Answ. The consequence is null , Paul went by revelation up to Jerusalem , and there Gal. 2. hee rebuked Peter , as an Apostle ? no , as a Brother , for then Paul should have exercised Apostolick Authority over Peter , which is popish .

Object . 3. If the Apostles did act as Presbyters here , they did wrong the particular Churches , and took their Liberty from them , in exercising ordinary Ministeriall acts there , which are proper to that Church .

Answ. It followeth upon the denyed principles of an independent Congregation onely , for a Church without Elders hath no Presbyteriall power , and therefore such a power can not bee taken from it , you cannot take from a Church , that which by Law it hath not . If the Acts of the government in the Apostles , are according to the substance of the Acts all one with the Acts of government , in the ordinary presbytery ; Ergo , say I , those Acts come not from an Apostolicall and extraordinary power , even as the Apostles preaching and baptizing are not different in nature and essence , from the Acts of preaching and baptizing in ordinary Pastors , though they had power to preach and baptize every where , and wee onely where wee have an ordinary calling of the Church , and from the Apostles preaching and baptizing every where , wee may inferre , it is lawfull for the ordinary Elders their successors to preach and baptize in some place , why may we not inferre because the Apostles , in collegio , in one presbytery did ordaine ordinary officers , that we have thence a patterne for an ordinary presbytery ?

Object . 4. If there were no institution for preaching and baptizing , but onely the Apostles naked practise , we were not warrantably to preach and baptize from the sole and naked example of the Apostles .

Answ. Shew us an institution for preaching and baptizing then , for that which we alledge is an institution , Matth. 28. 19 , 20. Mark . 14. v. 15. to you is a commandement given to the Apostles as Apostles , as you said , in the 1. objection proponed by you , and therefore we have no more warrant to preach and baptize from the Apostles example , then we have to work miracles , and because by the same reason of yours , Christs command to his Apostles to preach before his death , Matth. 10. is not ordinary presbyteriall preaching , but conjoyned also with the power of casting out devills , Matth. 10. 1 , 2 , 3. it must also upon the same ground bee a Commandement given to the Apostles not as ordinary Pastors , but as Apostles , if we compare Matth. 10. 1 , 2 , 3. with Mark . 16. 15 , 16 , 17 , 18. If you flee to John Baptist his practise of baptisme , 1. you are farther off then you were ; 2. What warrant more that John Baptist his practise should warrant preaching and baptizing , if it want an institution , then the Apostles preaching and baptizing when it is separated from an institution ? 2. This argument pincheth you as much as us , for a thousand times in your bookes , a warrant for our ordinary Elders to preach and baptize is fetched from the sole practise of the Apostles . 3. By this the argument for the Christian Salbath , from the Apostles observing that day , shall also fall . 4. This also shall make us loose in fundamentalls of Church government which are grounded upon the Apostles practise . 5. The Apostles had no Apostolick and extraordinary ground which moved them to preach and baptize , according to the substance of the Acts , for they did preach and baptize upon these morall and perpetuall motives and grounds which doe obliege ordinary Elders to preach and baptize even to Christs second comming , Ergo , their very practise , not considered with the institution , is our patterne and rule .

It is as evident that there was a Presbyteriall Church at Ierusalem after the dispersion , seeing the dispersion , as we have proved did not re●rench them to one Congregation , because our Brethren doe conclude from a company of Elders of the Church of Ephesus , Acts 20. of Ierusalem , from the Angell of the Church of pergamus , of Thyatira a formall ordinary Presbytery of Ephesus , of Ierusalem , of Thyatira . Let us have the favour of the same argument , upon the supposall of many Congregations which the word doth warrant , and upon the supposall that it is called one Church alwayes , as Acts 2. 47. The Lord added to the Church , Acts 5. 11. feare came upon all the Church , Acts 8. 1. there arose a great persecution against the Church , Acts 12. 1. Herod stretched forth his hand to vex certaine of the Church , v. 5. prayer was made without ceasing of the Church unto God . Acts 15. 4. and when they were come to Jerusalem they were received of the Church , and of the Apostles and Elders , Acts. 21. 15. Paul went up to Jerusalem , and v. 18. The day following Paul went in with us , into James , and all the Elders were present . Here be Elders of the Church of Ierusalem , and Ierusalem is named one Church frequently , and alwayes before and after the dispersion ; it is called a Church in the singular number , not onely in relation to persecuters , but also in relation to government , and because they were a politicall society to which there were many added Acts 2. 47. and which hath Elders Acts 15. 4. Acts 21. 15. 18. And a Church-union in a constituted body hearing the Word and receiving the Sacraments , as this Church did , Acts 2. 42. is not a Church but in regard of Church-policy , and Church-government . They reply , That enemies doe persecute the Church , Acts 8. 1. Acts 12. 1. Acts 8. 3. Saul made havock of the Church , that is , of the faithfull of the Church , for Saul had no regard in his persecution , to a Church in their government , or Church - combination , therefore the enemies are said to persecute the Church materially .

I answer , this objection I tooke off before . But 2. Principally the enemies persecuted the Church under the notion of Peaceable plea. c. 7. ad . ob . 1. pag. 81. ● Society politicall holding forth in a visible Church-profession their faith in Christ , and that by hearing , receiving the Seales , and subjecting themselves in a visible way obvious to the Eye of all , to the government of the Christian Church , Yea the enemies had no better character to discerne them to be Saints , and so worthy of their malice , then Church-characters of a Church-profession . But 2. Whereas the Holy Ghost giveth the name of one Church , to the Church of Ierusalem , all constantly speaking of it both as a Church , and in relation to persecuters , and that every way in that notion , as our Brethren say , that the Scripture speaketh of their own Corgregationall Church , wee have the same reason to call it one Church , because of one government ; for the question is not now if it bee many Congregations , but it it bee one Church .

Object . 2. They are called the Elders at Jerusalem , not the Elders of the Church of Jerusalem ; Ergo , from this it is not concluded that they were one Church .

Answ. Acts 16. 4. they are called Apostles and Elders in , or at Ierusalem Acts 16. 4. for another cause , these were Elders from other Churches , from Antioch no lesse , then Elders of Ierusalem , they onely sate in Synod at Ierusalem . 2. All Ierusalem was not converted to the Christian Faith , and therefore they may well bee tearmed Elders at Ierusalem , as the Church at Ephesus , at , or in Thyatira . 3. I deny that the Scripture speaketh any other wayes of the Elders of the Church of Ierusalem , then of the Elders of other Churches .

2. Those Elders ought to meete for the governing of the Church of Jerusalem , for this was their duty ; Ergo , they were one Presbytery . 2. They did meet Acts 15. 14. to receive Paul and Barnabas , and to heare what God had done by them for their edification ; and Acts 21. Paul goeth to Ierusalem and is received v. 15. by the Brethren , but the next day , v. 18. The day following Paul went in with us unto James and all the Elders were present ; and there the Elders doe presbyterially act for the removing of a Church-scandall , v. 21. The believing Jewes were informed that Paul taught all the Iewes which were amongst the Gentiles to forsake Moses . This was a publick scandall . 2. The offended multitude were to convene , v. 22. as plaintiffs . 3. The Eldership ordaineth Paul to remove the scandall by satisfying the offended , by purifying himselfe after the manner of the Jewes , and it is cleare Paul should not have satisfyed the scandalized Iewes , except Iames and the Elders had injoyned him so to doe . 4. This the very course of a presbytery , yea , our Brethrens doctrine , which a Congregationall presbytery would , and doth take with any other person who doth give offence , yea though it be taken and not given , if the way of remedy be lawfull and expedient , as this presbytery conceived Pauls purifying of himselfe to be , and if any scandalizing person should be disobedient to the voyce of a Congregationall eldership , such as our Brethren believe the Eldership of Jerusalem to be ; they would say they are to censure him , and therefore if Paul should have beene disobedient to this , he should have incurred a censure ; It is true Lorinus saith that Chrysostome and Oecumenius will have this to be a Counsell , not a Synod , to command Paul , and they Lorinus Diodatus , in loc. deny any Juridicall power here , but v. 18. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , to mee it is , They were gathered together : Diodatus calleth them The colledge of the governours of the Church , Beda Beda . saith there were foure Synods and hee maketh the Synod Acts 1. at the chusing of Matthias the first , the second at the chusing of Deacons Acts 6. the third Acts 15. and this the fourth , Acts 21. 2. The Text seemeth to mee to say it , for as Acts 15. there was course taken for the Gentiles that they should abstaine from blood , lest they should either scandalize , or bee scandalized ; so the Eldership here taketh course that the infirme Iewes be not scandalized , as is cleare , v. 25. As touching the Gentiles which believe , we have written , &c. and to me they seeme to do both Synodically , some thinke that this fact of the Elders and Paul was not lawfull : but how ever , though it was not a generall councell , a presbytery I take it to be taking course to remove a scandall from the weake Iewes in this place , as they had by a Synodicall power removed it from the Gentiles , Act. 15. Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson in their modest and brotherly answer to Mr. Charles Herle , c. 1. p. 6.

It is objected by Master Mather , that if a Church in an Island by Divine institution , and so this first founded congregation at Jerusalem which did meete in Salomons porch , had once an entire power of Iurisdiction within it selfe , though in an extraordinary case . 1. The case is ordinary , as in the Dominion of Wales , there is scarce a congregation to be found within twenty or thirty miles . 2. Suppose the case were extraordinary and rare , may they violate the ordinary rules of Christ ? for so some may thinke and say , that though according to ordinary Rules , Baptisms and the Lords Supper must be dispensed only by men and by Ministers , yet in the want of these , the one may be dispensed by a Woman , or Mid-wife , and both of them by such as are no Ministers .

Answ. We thinke a Ministery and Discipline more necessary to a Congregation in a remote Island , or to the Church of Ierusalem before they increase to such a number as cannot meet for their numerous multitude in one Congregation , then the Sacraments , when there be no Ministers to dispense them . 1. That the Church be so in the Island its alone , may possibly be extraordinary , but that in such a case they have the Word preached and entire power of Discipline whole and entire within themselves to excommunicate scandalous persons is not extraordinay , when there be no consociated Churches , whom excommunication concerneth , that are in danger to be scandalized , for it floweth connaturally from a Church to which agreeth the essence of a Church , to exercise Jurisdiction over all its owne members , if there be no more consociated with that Church , that is by accident and an extraordinary exigence of Gods providence . As a master of a Family is to do his duty to educate his children in the feare of God ; but if God take all his children from him by death , he doth not transgresse the ordinary rule of educating his children in the feare of God , when hee hath none . This argument supposeth that a Congregation hath no power of excommunication at all either compleat or incompleat , as the Mid-wife hath no power to Baptize at all either compleat or incompleat : neither doth a Congregation transgresse any rule of Christ at all when it exerciseth entire power of censures within it selfe , whereas there be no consociated Churches to share with it in that power . A Congregation is capable of entire Jurisdiction , because it is a Church ; But a woman in no case is capable of administrating Baptisme , or the Lords Supper , except shee were extraordinarily and immediatly inspired to be a prophetesse , but for the exercise of entire power of Jurisdicton by a Congregation in a r●mote Island , I hope , it hath no such need of immediate inspiration . 2. There is no such morall necessity of the Sacraments , as there is of the Ministery of the word and consequently of some use of the Keys , where a scandalous person may infect the Lords flock . For where vision ceaseth the people perish , but it is never said , where Baptisme ceaseth the people perish , and therefore uncalled Ministers in case of necessity , without ordination or calling from a presbytery may preach , and take on them the holy Ministery and exercise power of Jurisdiction , because the necessity of the Soules of a Congregation , in a remote Island requireth so , but I hope no necessity in any the most extraordinary case requireth that a Midwife may Baptize , or that a private man remaining a private man may celebrate the Lords Supper to the Church without any calling from the Church .

But Mr. Mather , if the power of Iurisdiction flow immediately and Mr. Mather , & Mr. Thomson 1● . p. 4 5 : necessarily from the essence of a Church , and a congregation be essentially a Church , then this power agreeth to all Churches , whether consociated , or not consociated , and without respect of what neighbours they have , whether many , or few , whether any , or none . 2. A congregation its alone cannot have sole power of jurisdiction , and then be deprived of it , when God sendeth neighbour Churches ; for then neighbouring Churches which are given for helpe , should be given for losse , the contrary whereof Ames Ames Medull . Theol. l. 1. c. 39. sect. 37. saith . Nor doe Synods ( saith he ) constitute a new forme of a Church .

Answ. Power of Iurisdiction floweth from the essence of a congregation in an Iland ; Ergo , a totall and compleat power of jurisdiction , floweth from the essence of a Church or congregation consociated ; it followeth no wayes , so a pastor of a Congregation hath as a pastor power to rebuke sinne , and to administrate the Sacraments , Ergo , when three pastors are added to help him , he hath the sole power of rebuking sinne , and the sole and entire power to administrate the Sacraments , and none of these three pastors hath power with him , it followeth not ; and because these three pastors are added to help him and their pastorall power added to him is cumulative and auxiliary , but not privative or destructive of his pastorall power , therefore the first pastor suffereth losse by the addition of these three to him : who will say this ? our Brethren do conceive the power of Congregations , in its kind and essence , to be Monarchicall , so as if any power from consociated Congregations be added thereunto , the Congregations power Monarchicall is d minished ; and the essence of it changed . 2. Compleat and entire power to rule both the Congregation and the Members of consociated Churches in so far as they do keep communion with that Congregation , and may either edifie , or scandalize them , floweth not immediatly and necessarily from the essence of every Congregation even in remote Islands not consociated with others , that we never said . 3. A power to governe well , and according to the rule of the word added to another power to governe well and according to the word , is an auxiliary power and no way destrective of that power , to which it is added , indeed a power to governe well , added to a power of male administration in a Congregation is distructive of that power , and reason it should be so , because Christ never gave any such power of male administration to a Congregation ; but a power of right governing , added to a power of right governing is neither destructive thereof , nor doth it constitute a new forme of a Church , or a Church - power , but only inlarge the pr●existent form to extend it selfe farther , for the edification of more soules .

But ( saith Mr. Mather ) if it be against the light of nature that the adverse party be the sole judge which must be , if the s●le Mr. Mather , and Mr. Thomson ib. p. 5. power of Iurisdiction be in the Congregation ( as we grant in an extraordinary case , when a Congregation is in an Island its alone ) and so it shall be lawfull for a single Congregation to doe that which is against all equity and the very light of nature , it must then follow that it is not against the light of nature that a Congregation ( though consociated with other Congregations ) have entire jurisdiction within it selfe .

Answ. None of us do teach that it is against the light of nature that the adverse party be the judge , it might fall out in a generall councell lawfully convened , from which there is no provocation , yea and in a nationall councell , ( for all councels may erre ) the adverse party may judge , as it was a lawfull councell according to a Church-constitution that condemned Christ of blisphemy , and they were also his enemies ; but we teach that it is not congruous to the wisdome of Christ , nor to the light of nature , that Christ should have appointed all the ordinary Churchcourts , so many thousand congregations , who may rather erre then extraordinary and higher Synods , to be the onely ordinary judges in their owne cause ; Nor doth any thing more follow from this argument , that when there is one congregation its alone in an Iland destitute of the helpe of consociated Churches ( which is a defect of an extraordinary providence of Christ in that one singular exigence ) that that congregation shall be both judge and party in its owne cause , if we suppose that one Micaiah shall contend for the truth , and all the rest of the Prophets and people of that congregation to be against the truth , and to judge and condemne one man , who seeketh the Lord in truth .

It is a wonder to me that Thessalonica was but one single congregation , all hearing one Word , partakers of one Lords Supper at one Table ; yet the Apostle ascribeth to them that which is a note to worthy Baynes of the numerous multitude of the Church of Ierusalem , from whence went the Word of God to all M Mather and Thomson c. 3. p. 33 , 35. the world , 1 Thes. 1. 8. For from you sounded out the Word of the Lord , not onely in Macedonia and Achaia , but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad . I deny not what Mr. Mather and Thomson say , but 5000 may meet to heare the word , and many thousands were gathered together Luke 12. to heare Christ ; but these reverend brethren doe leave out , 1. The inconvenience of thronging so all at once ; for , they trode one upon another . 2. Christ preached not to all those thousand at once , for it is expresly said , v. 1. He began to say to his Disciples . So Christ refusing to preach to such a disorderly confluence of people , who could not heare , and his doctrine being all for his Disciples , the very Sermon being preached to his Disciples onely , Matth. 10. 2 , 3 , 4 , &c. and the Parable of the rich man v. 22. he applieth to his Disciples , Then he said to his Disciples , therefore I say unto you , take no thought for your life , &c. It evidenceth to me that Christ condemneth a numerous multitude in one congregation to heare at once . And whereas Chrysostome saith , 5000 persons did heare his voyce , at once , in one congregation , by meanes of Scaffolds and Galleries ; and Mr. Mather is willing to yeeld eight thousand an hundred and twenty were all assembled in one place to

Chrysostome on Math. 24.

M. Mather . c. 2 pag. 34.

heare the Word , and that all the multitude of converts at Ierusalem were together in Salomons porch , Act. 5. 12. I grant three thousand could heare one at once ; but alas , this is a great uncertainty for independent congregations . But 1. this is to be proved that eight thousand ( Mr. Mather hath not added many other multitudes mentioned , Act. 5. 14. Act. 6. 1. v. 7. and elsewhere ) did meet daily in the Temple . 2. Daily and ordinarily from house to house . 3. To celebrate the Lords Supper daily in the Temple and in every private house ( there were need of many Scaffolds and Galleries ) to sit at one Table . 4. To make one judicature , and have more then power of consenting in Church . censures , as our brethren prove the whole Church of beleevers had , from Matth. 18. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 4. Act. 15. 22. 1 Cor. 14. 23. for my part I thinke such a miraculous Church cannot be the first mould of independent Churches to be established congregations meeting in one place , for to be edified by word , seales and censures . Yea Mr. Mather will have the whole convening as one independent congregation Act. 6. 2 , 3 , 4. and the many myriades or thousands of beleeving Jewes , Act. 21. 21 , 22 , 23. to meet as one congregation . Certainly the Apostles practice must be our rule , and then five hundred or a thousand being so farre beneath ten or eight thousand , may wel seem a number for fewnesse not competent ; and what shall we then thinke of seven onely , or ten ? Now let it be considered , if Rome being granted to be one Church , and in which to me there was a congregation and Church in the very family of Aquila and Priscilla , Rom. 16. v. 5. and whose faith was spread through all the world , Rom. 1. 8. so as famous writers say the halfe of the City beleeved , if they be but one single congregation meeting all in one place ? and to me it is cleare , there was a single congregation in the very house of Aquila and Priscilla , Act. 18. 1 , 2 , 3 4. v. 26 27 , 28. and that Paul preached when he was there daily , beside his disputing in the Synagogue ; when he was at Rome there was a Church at his house , Rom. 16. 5. So Diodati saith on the place , That the Church at Aquila his house was the assembly of beleevers , who assembled themselves in their house ; for there were divers small assemblies in one and the selfe same City , 1 Cor. 16. 19. Col. 4. 15. Greet the Church that is at their house . Col. 1. 15. Salute Nymphus , and the Church at his house . Where Paul speaketh of believers only in a house , he giveth them not the name of a Church , as Ro. 16. 10. Salute them that are of Aristobulus houshold . V. 11. Greet them that are of the houshold of Narcissus . Phil. 4. 22. All the Saints salute you , especially those that are of Caesars house . I desire to know a reason of the difference of this Grammar , if there were no constituted Church in the house of Aquila and Priscilla , why in one Chapter the Apostle should change the phrase ? and I desire know what reason we have to goe from the literall meaning of the word , that is , a Church at Aquila his house , as well as a Church at C●rinth . For whereas some say that Rom. 1. 6. he saluteth not all of the house of Narcissus , but onely v. 11. those which are is the Lord ; 1. this exception is not brought concerning the house of Aristobulus , v. 10. 2 This exception confirmeth what I say , because where there is not a Church and an institured Society and politicall Church-meeting in the house of any of the Saint , there they are called beleevers of such a house , and not a Church at such a house . 3. This phrase 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 used Rom. 16. 5. 1 Cor. 16. 19. Col. 4. 19. Phile. 2. must be the same with the Saints assemblea for the Word & Sacraments . Act. 5. 42. in the Temple , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 from house to house daily , and it must be allope with Act. 2. 46. Where they continued daily in the Temple with one accord , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and breaking bread from house to house ; and all one with the assembly of Disciples Act 20. 7. where they assembled for the Word and Sacrament of the Supper , especially seeing as the learned acknowledge , the Christians could not have Temples or houses built for the publique assemblies of the Saints as Rome and Corinth , but they met in private houses ; which seeing it cannot be denied , then were there at Rome two Churches at least ; one at the house of Aquila and Priscilla , 1 Cor. 16. 15. and another also pertaining to the rest of the Saints at Rome .

And this saith , that if there had beene but one single Congregation at Rome , whereas one family had a Church , c. 165. and so many illustrious families received the faith of Christ , it is like their faith could not have been published through all the world , Rom. 1. 8. if the Christian faith had not had a greater prevalency in comparison of the false God● then worshipped at Rome , then to be in one poore single meeting .

And for the Church of Corinth , I humbly conceive they could not be one single congregation , if these foure circumstances be considered : 1. The multitude of beleevers there . 2. The multitude of Teacher● . 3. The diversity of Tongues . 4. A Presbyteriall meeting of Prophets , 1 Cor. 14. For the first , Act. 18. 9. Many of the Corinthians believed , and were baptized . Now if we shall believe that the Apostolique Church conjoyned preaching and baptizing , the Word and the Sacraments ; and that the Apostles baptized none but those to whom they preached , I conceive it cannot be denied but there were divers assemblies for the Word and the Sacrament ; for Paul , 1 Cor. 14. 15. Baptized n●ne but Crispus and Gaius , and the houshold of Stephanus ; it many were baptized , other Pastors , not Paul baptized them , 1 Cor. 1. 14 , 15 , 16. and so they were baptized in other assemblies , then in those in which Paul baptized . 2. It is cleare that to comfort Paul whose spirit could not but be heavy , as you may gather from Rom. 7. 2 , 3. because he was Act. 18. 6 , 7. resisted so in his ministery by the blasphemies of the Jewes rejecting the Gospel , that he shooke his rayment on them , and said , your blood be upon your owne heads , I am cleane ; from henceforth I will goe to the Gentiles ; The Lord saith unto him in a vision , 9. Be not afraid , but speake , and hold not thy peace , 10. For I am with thee , and no man shall set on thee , for I have much people in this City . 11. And he continued there a yeere and six moneths , teaching the Word amongst them . Now let this in equity be considered , if the gaining of one single congregation which meet for the Word , Sacraments , 1 Cor. 11. 20 , 21 , 22. 1 Cor. 14. 19. and also to acts of Church-censures 1 Cor. 5. 4. as our brethren teach , which could not exceed one thousand conveniently in a setled and daily meeting , had first been much people ; secondly , much , in comparison of thousands of the Jewes who rejected the Lord Jesus , as may be gathered from comparing Act. 18. 5 , 6. and Act. 13. 43 , 46 , 47. with Act. 21. ●0 . where it is said , many thousands of the Jewes believed , for the greatest part of the Iewes rejected Christ , as is cleare 1 Thess. 2. 14. 15. 16. and so many more thousands behoved to reject Christ then believed ? Now what comfort could Paul have had in this , that many thousands of the Jewes rejected the Gospell , and yet all the much people that God had in Corinth were but fo●soot● to the number of one compleat Assembly of a single Congregation , which did meet in a private House , for the celebration of the Lords Supper ? For Piscator with all our Divines , 1 Cor. 14 teach that their were no capacious Temples in Corinth , where they did meet for Gods worship . 2. Judge if one single Congregation ( for the Congregations planted by the Apostles behoved to be competent , and convenient for edification , that all might heare and all partake of one bread , 1 Cor. 10. 16. and one Table of the Lord , v. 21. ) could necessitate Paul to stay at Corinth a yeare and six moneths , when as Paul by one Sermon made in a certaine mans House named Justus did bring many to believe and be Baptized , Acts 18 7. 8. And these many might conveniently make a Congregation beside the much people that God had there , v. 10. not yet called , but yet they were , as interpreters say , the Lords people , by Gods decree of predestination . 2. The multitude of Teachers proveth that their were more Congregation then one ; for 1. It is incongruous to the Wisdome of Christ to raise up many reapers , where the harvest is narrow , many builders for one congregationall House . 2. It is contrary to Christs practice , who sent not twelve Pastors to one place , but sent them out two by two , that all might find worke : now can we thinke , that where God had much people , as Acts 18. 10. that he would have hundreths of Prophets to be hearers and one at once to speak to one single Congregation ? to what end gave the Lord a Talent to such a huge multitude of prophets ? that they might be oftener hearers , then they could be in actuall prophecying ? It is not like . 3. Whereas it is said , 1 Cor. 14. 31. you may all prophecy one by one , that all may learne , and all may be comforted , Di●datus saith , yee may all prophecy , namely by course and in diverse or severall Assemblies . And Estius saith the same , to wit , that these Prophets were to prophecy in diverse assemblies ; and for this it is that he saith , v : 34. let your women 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 keepe silence 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in the Churches ; Ergo , he supposeth there were more Congregations then one at Corinth ; Nor is there reason to say with some , he speaketh of Churches in the plurall number , because he made mention of all the Churches of the Saints in the verse going before , for 1. He saith , your Wom●n , let them be silent : now if he had not meant that there were many Congregations at Corinth , he would not have forbidden it in their Women , but of all Women , and it is knowen there was a great abuse of spirituall gifts in Corinth , so as women did prophecy in the assemblies , and this the Apostle forbiddeth in their Churches in the pl●● all number . And I pray you what roome or place was there for such a multitude of Prophets to edifie the Churches in one private House ? for there were no Temples where they might meet at Corinth . 4. If Kenchrea be comprehended under the Church of Corinth in this Epistle , and the Apostle writing to the Corinthians wrote also to this Church called Romans 16. 1. The Church at Kenchrea , then have we more Congregations then one at Corinth . Now the learned teach that Kenchrea was a Sea-port or Harbour of the Corinthians , a a Origen , prefa . in 〈◊〉 . Origen saith it was a place neer to Corinth . Off the Aegean Sea one the East , and as b b Strabo . l. 18. Strabo saith , ad sinum Saronicum , as Lechea was the other port . See c c Plinius nat. Hist. l. 4. c. 4. Plinius . And the multitude of Teachers ( I humbly conceive ) which did preach at Korinth may be gathered from 1 Cor. 1. 5. 1 Cor. 4. 6. 15. 1 Cor. 1. 12 , 13. 1 Cor. 3. 4 , 5. 1 Cor. 14. where there are multitudes of these who were all gifted to edifie others , as those who spake with Tongues , wrought miracles , had the gift of healing . And so many Prophets that Paul saith , v. 31. for yee may all prophecy , that all may lear●e , and all may be comforted , if these ( all ) who were to learne , and to be comforted be the much people which God had in this City Acts 18. 9. and this ( all ) to be instructed and comforted , I have no farther to say . And 3. I can hardly believe that the end why God sent the gift of diverse tongues amongst them was to e●ifie one single Congregation : for it is true that our Brethren say , that 1 Corinthia●s vers . 22. 14. Tongues are for a signe , not to them that believe , but to them that believe not . But that which they hence collect is most groundlesse , to wit , that therefore the gift of Tongues , according to its genuine end and intention is onely a miracle for the gaining of Heathen to the Faith , and not intended to edifie the Church and people of a strange Language , after they are brought in to the Church , and therefore there is no ground for people of divers congregations to be instructed by strange Tongues .

Ans. The whole current of Divines answer , ( as also Estius observeth on the place ) Tongues are given especially for infidels , ut novitate mirac●li convertantur , that by the newnesse of the miracle they may be converted , though also Tongues serve to instruct these who believe , and consequently ; say I , that the Churches of divers Tongues may be edified . And let me adde that strange Tongues were a mixt miracle . I say mixt , because both they were given to be a miraculous signe to assure Heathen , that the sending downe of the Holy Ghost was a miraculous fruit of Christs Ascension to Heaven ; who promised that when he was ascended to the Father , he would send the other comforter , as is cleare Acts 2 , 89 , 10 , 11 12. and also it was so a miracle that Paul proveth that it is fruitlesse and wanteth the naturall and genuine end of speech and an humane voyce in the Church , if it edifie not , as 1. Tongues edifie not the Church , except you speak to these who know the Language , or except there be an Interpreter , for other ways the speaker with Tongues shall be as a Barbarian to these to whom ●e speaketh , and they as Barbarians to him 1 Cor. 14. 6. 7. 8 9 , 10 , 11. 2 He that speaketh with Tongues is to pray that he may interpret , v. 13. That he may edifie the Church . 3. He that speaketh with Tongues , if he be not understood , is fruitlesse and uselesse to others , because the hearers can neither say amen to his preaching , nor to his praying , v. 14. 15 , 16 , 17. (4) except a man teach others , his gift of Tongues teacheth not the Church , v. 18 , 19 10. (5) strange Tongues in the Church when the hearers understand not , are a judgement of God rather then an edifying of the Church , v. 21. & c. hence it is more then evident , that the edifying end , why the Lord had raised up these in the Church of Corinth , ( which was now a planted and watered Church , 1 Cor. 1. 1. ch. 3 5 , 6 , 7. and a building , the foundation whereof was layd , v. 10. 11 , 12 , &c. ) was that the Church might be edified . And so the gift of Tongues , as touching its edifying use and end , was fruitlesse , and of no effect ; yea as we teach against Papists , unlawfull in Gods publick worship , except there had been diverse assemblies and Congregations , which understood these Tongues . Nor can it be said , that all in Corinth understood Greeke . And therefore these of divers Tongues might be understood by all : for 1. This layeth a ground that there was no Tongue a strange Tongue , but the Greeke Tongue . 2. That all speaking with strange Tongues was well understood , whereas the Apostle sayth the contrary , v. 10. 11 , 12. v. 16. v. 23. That many spake with Tongues in that Church , and yet the hearers could not say amen to them , nor be edified by their preaching or praying , v. 19. if then strange Tongues were gifts of God given to that planted Church to edifie these who believed , and to edifie the Church , as well as to gaine heathen , there must needs be divers Congregations at Corinth , and therefore I cannot but thinke that weak which Mr. Mather ; and Mr. Thomson say ; But the Mr. Mather , Mr. Thomson answ. t● Mr. H● . l● c. 5. ● . ●7 . place , 1 Cor. 14. 23. That speaketh of the whole Church comming together to one place doth unavaydably prove , that Corinth had their meetings , and not by way of distribution into severall congregations , but altogether in one congregation : and it is plaine , that though they had variety of Teachers and Prophets . yet they all used to c●●●e together to one place .

I answ . 1. The place , 1 Cor. 14. 23. if the whole Church come together , &c. doth evince the contrary , for the Apostle doth there reason ab absurdo , from a great incongruity ; it were incongruous ( saith he ) and ridiculous that the whole Church of Corinth , and all their gifted men speaking with diverse Tongues ( so that they could not be understood by Infidells ) should all convene in one place , and speake with divers Tongues , for the unlearned and the unbelievers would say they were madde ; therefore hee presupposeth that the whole Church should not all come to one place , but that they should so come to one place v. 24. in diverse assemblies , and all prophecy in a Tongue knowen to the Infidells , as the unbeliever being convinced and judged of all the Prophers . he might fall down on his face , and worship God , and say , God is in you of a truth . 2. The whole Church is not the whole , much people of Corinth that believed , that did ordinarily meet in one place ; the Text saith no such thing , and that is to be proved and not taken as granted , and so the consequence is most avoydable ; for 1. You must say that at any one Assembly , all the Prophets and Teachers of Corinth did prophecy , for the Text saith , v. 24. He is convinced of all , he is judged of all . Whereas the consequence should be absurd , it should be a longesome and we●●● some meeting ; for Interpreters say they meet in diverse Assemblies , and the Text saith expresly , v. 29. That at one meeting they prophecied , but two or three : now if two only prophecied in one Congregation at one Assembly , as this Text will warrant clearely , then how doth this whole Church consisting of all the Believers of Corinth , a● is supposed by our Brethren , convince the infidell , so as it may beare this sense , v. 24. He is convinced of all , he is judged of all ? can two Prophets be all Prophets ? And how doth it be●re this v. 24. But if all prophesie , & c ? surely , for my part , I think it must unavoydably be said , that they all prophecied distributively and in severall Congregations . And it is very probable to me , that as women prophecied , so many prophecied at once , and that the Apostle correcteth their abuse , when he will have them to prophecy by course , v. 27. And that too numerous a multitude did prophecy in one Assembly , and therefore the Apostle reducing this Church to order , retrencheth the number v. 29. to two or three , and so this which he saith v. 31. for you may all prophecy one by one , &c. must unavoydably be understood distributively in divers Congregations and Assemblies , and so must we take the words where it is said , v. 24. all the Prophets convince , all judge , distributively ; and the whole Church v. 23. by this cannot beare this sense , that the whole Church of Corinth comprehending the the whole Prophets . Teachers , and ●elievers , did all collectively meet in one single Assembly . And that the much people which the Lord had at Corinth , Acts 18. 9. was one society partaking of one Table of the Lord , in one private house , and all in one consistory judging and censuring and excommunicating .

Lastly , I thinke ( with reverence of the learneder ) that these Prophets were a Colledge of Teaching Prophets whose gifts were imployed in edifying severall Congregations ; only some , say they , were Prophets extrordinarily inspired . 2. They were not Prophets of the Church of Corinth , and therefore are not any patterne of a Presbytery , but I answer . 1. Though they were Prophets extraordinarily inspired , yet do they prove well some ordinary acts of a Presbytery , and that 2. They were Prophets of that same Church of Corinth , I conceive ; For they do here Prophecy according to the analogy of Faith , and that they have common with Prophets now adayes . 2. They are by these same rules regulated that our Pastors are now . 3. They exercise these same acts of Jurisdiction which Pastors do now exercise . 1. They are to prophecy in a knowen Tongue , v. 19. 20 , 21 , 22 ▪ and that the edification and comfort of the Church , ● . 31. even as P●stors now adayes , only the internall principle , to wit , the insused gift of prophecying made them extraordinary Prophets , in fi●ri , as our Prophets become Prophets by ordinary industry and studies , in furi : but in facto esse , and according to the substance of the acts of prophecying , these extraordinary Prophets , and our ordinary Prophets and Pastors differ not in specie and nature . As the Eyes put in the man borne blind Ioh. 9. and these Eyes which we suppose he was capable of from his mothers wombe , and the Wine miraculously made out of water by Iesus Christ , Ioh. 2. and the Wines that grew in Iudea , according to their manner of production and in fieri differed , but in facto esse they were of the same nature . Hence you see in the Text these Prophets are every way regulated as ordinary prophets , and as the Prophets of the Church of Corinth . 1 Because it is acknowledged by all Interpreters that the scope of the Chapter is to prescribe what is order and decency in the publick worship in the Church of Corinth ; as the last verse saith , v. 40. let all things be done decently and in order , and consequently how these Prophets should edifie the Church of Corinth , v. 4. 12 16 , 17. ( ● ) That these Prophets should not speake in publick the language of Barbar●an , v. 11 , 12. to the which the hearer could not say Amen , v. 16. and this way are our ordinary Prophets regulated , except that Papists will but say service in Latine , (3) A direction is put on the Prophets , on these who speake with Tongues , that they be not children in understanding , and that they be , in malice , as children , but as concerning understanding , men , v. 20. which agreeth well to Prophets as they are ordinary Pastors . (4) What more ordinary , then the comming together of the whole Church for prophecying , v. 23. 24. and convincing of unbelievers ? a● 25. (5) the Prophets are to be limited to a way of speaking to edification , as he who speaketh with Tongues , who must speake by an Interpreter , or then be silent in the Church , v. 27. 28. (6) These Prophets , a● our ordinary Prophets , must speake orderly , and that but one at once , to eschew confusion , v. 29. (7) What they speake is to be judged and put under censure , for the whole Colledge must judge , v. 29. 8. (8) And as the women are here put under a rule , when to speak , and when to be silent , v. 34. 35. So are these prophets , all which , and divers other rules doe regulate our ordinary Prophets , which clearely saith to me , that this is a patterne of a Colledge of ordinary Prophets under that same policy and rules of policy as the ordinary Colledge of Pastors at Corinth , and 3. To this Colledge agreeth a power dogmaticall of judging , and censuring the Doctrine of the Prophets delivered , 29. let the Prophets speak two or three , and let the other judge . This is not a power of judging that every Christian hath . For 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 saith Piscator , doth relate to the Prophets who are to judge ; But ( as I take it ) a propheticall judging , which may , by good anology , warrant the juridicall power of a presbytery to judge and examine these who preach the word , that there creep not in false Teachers into the Church .

And for Ephesus . The huge number of Believers and yet making one Church , Rev. 2. 2. saith that Ephesus was a presbyteriall Church as many circumstances evince , Acts 19. for . 1. Paul established twelve men Prophets who spake with Tongues , and prophecied . To what end did Paul set up twelve Labourers at Epheseus , with diverse languages , but to establish divers Assemblies ? did they all meet dayly in one house with Paul to heare him , and turned silent Prophets themselves , when they were indeed with the gift of Tongues to speake to the edification of Assemblies of divers tongues ? It is not credible . 2. And v. 10. Paul continued here for the space of two yeares , ( and was this for one competent number , who did all meet in one private house ? how can this be credible ? ) 3. All that dwelt in Asia heard the Word of the Lord Iesus , both Jewes and Greeks , then in great Ephesus there behoved to be more then one Congregation . 4. The great miracles done by Paul . v. 11. 12. to admiration of all , and to procure the imitation of false Prophets . 5. The name of the Lord Iesus was magnified by the Iewes and Greeks that dwelt at Ephesus . 6. There behoved to be a great work of God , when great Ephesus turned to the faith . It is , 1. Remarkable that Christ the wisdome of the father directed his Apostles to the most famous Cities , to cast out their nets , for conquering of soules to Christ , as in Indea they came to Samaria , and to great Jerusalem ; in Syria to Antiochia , in Grecia to Corinth , in Italy to Rome , in Asia the lesse to Ephesus ; now the Scripture is cleare the Apostles , that ever we read , planted but one Church , as is cleare in one City in Ierusalem , in Antiochia , in Corinth , in Rome , in Ephesus : and observe , the basis and prime principle of our Brethrens independent Churches doth all ly upon this meer conjecture , that the Lords Grace did restrict and limit the fruits of the triumphing Gospell , in the hands of the Apostles the conquerors of the World to Iesus Christ , that they planted but in the greatest Cities they came to ( and they appoynted Elders in every City ) onely one poore single Congregation , as a patterne of all independent Churches , and this consisted of no more then could meet conveniently in one House for Word , Sacraments , one Lords Table , and one Ecclesiasticall Church - court for censures . Certainly this Church being a patterne to all instituted Churches , could not exceed the number of a thousand men , or two thousand Believers , and this is a greater number by some hundreds , I am sure , then can make a competent Church-meeting , and I hope no man could say we erred , if we should now make eight or ten thousand one Congregation in ordinary , as our Mr. Mather and Mr. Thomson against Herle . c. 3. p. 34. Brethren say the first Congregationall Church of Jerusalem wa● . B●t . 2. This City was the mother City and flower of Asia . 2. It was noble , because of Diana's Temple , the length whereof was foure hundred and twenty five foot , the breadth two hundred and twenty foot , the pillars were an hundred and twenty seven , the height of every pillar was sixty foot . Amongst which there were thirty pillars most curiously carded . Others say they were an hundred and thirty seven pillars made by severall Kings , the Temple was built by all Asia for the space of two hundred and twenty , ( some say ) fourty yeares . It was inlarged by Alexander ; And thither came all Asia the lesse to the Temple of great Diana . For they had no other Religion , here dwelt the proconsull of Asia , as saith a a Philostratus l. 8. in vit. Apollonii . Philostratus , It abounded with artes and Sciences , Philosophers and Orators , b b Chrysostom . in praesa . ad Ephes. Chrysostom saith that in it were Pythagaras , Parmenides , Zeno , Democritus , it was compassed with excellent Cities , and noble for Asiatick commodities , see c c Plinius l. 36 c. 14 : Plinius , and d d Alexander ab Alexandro . l. 3. c. 20. Alexander Neopolitanus , e e Igna ●i Epist. 14. Ignatius highly commendth it from the purity of the Gospell . All this I relate not as an unpertient digression , but to shew that the Gospell behoved to be more mighty here ; then that Paul set up but one single Congregation and an Eldership congregationall only , Acts 20. 28. v. 36. 37. Especially consider what Beasts Paul fought with at Ephesus , for here were many Jewes who opposed him . 2. All the multitude , by the instigation of Demetrius , avowing that their Diana was the goddesse not only of Ephesus but of all Asia ; yet God made the word so mightily to prevaile , for v. 10. Paul remaining there by the space of two yeares , all that dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord , both Jewes and Greeks . I aske how it could stand with Pauls universall commission to preach to Iew and Gentiles , 1 Cor. 9. 20. 21. as an Apostle , to ●em●ine neere three years at Ephesus for one single congregation , and the erecting of one Congregationall presbytery ? 3. We see how zealously mad they have been on their Religion , when they had such a curious Temple for Diana . And 4. Demetrius and the crafts had their living by making silver shrines to Diana . And 5. What power of the Gospell it behoved to be , which made their learned men who used curious arts , to submit to the Gospell and bring their Books and burne them before all men ? and the sums of these Books extended to a great sum of mony , the common people ordinarily follow the learned and the wise of the City and Land ; This could not have been done except the far greater part of the City had submitted to the Gospell , for when they were well neer ready to tear Paul in peeces , they behoved to be wounderfully tamed , when many Believed , and came and confessed and shewed their deeds , v. 18. Baynes com . on 1. ch. Ephes. saith , Ephesus was a City sogiven to riot that it banished Hermodor . Upon no other consideration , but because he was an honest sober man ; And also Paul 1 Cor. 16. saith , v. 9. for a great doore and effectuall is open to me at Ephesus , This was , as all Interpreters Protestant and popish say , uno ore , a large harvest . Upon these considerations , I leave to our reverend Brethren their judgement : if Mr. Mather , and Mr. Mr. Mather , ans. to Mr. Herle . c. 3. p. 38 , 39. Thomson say right , we doe not thinke they were more in number at Ephesus , then in Corinth and Ierusalem , where the Christians met all in one place .

Likewise Samaria a numerous City was one Church , for that it is said of them , Acts 8 , 5 , 6. They heard Philip , v. 14. Samaria received the Word , it was a publick visible Churchreceiving of the word ; and v. 12. They believed and were Baptized both men and women . Where a multitude no better then Heathen as Samaria was , receive the Seale of the Covenant , to wit Baptisme , they must receive it in a Church-way , except we thinke that promiscuously all come to age were received to the Seales , and when Peter and Iohn came to Samaria to helpe Philip in the worke , it cannot be that they all went to one House , and to one single Assembly to preach the Word ;

The Church of Antiochia must be a Presbyteriall Church , a● it is Acts 11. v. 19. 20. for the multitude of Believers may be collected from These who were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Steven — 20 — when they were come to Antioch , spaks unto the Grecians preaching the Lord Jesus . 21. and the hand of the Lord was with them : and a great number believed and turned to the Lord. This is not like to be one Congregation , seeing they are , 1. much people . 2. many scattered preachers . 3. And the Hand of the Lord accompained their labours 2. v. 23. when Barnabas , sent by the Church of Ierusasalem , came and saw the Grace of God , he exhorted them all , That with purpose of heart they would cleave to the Lord , and upon Barnabas his preaching , v. 24. — much people was added to the Lord . Here is a second accession made to the Church of Antioch . (3) v. 25. Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus to seek Saul . 26. And when hee had found him , hee brought him to Antioch . And it came to passe that a whole yeare they assembled themselves with the Church , and taught much people ( here is a third accession ; ) And such a huge multiplication , that the Church of Antioch giveth a denomination of Christianity to all the Christian Churches of the World . All which saith , it cannot be one poore single Congregation , for there was at least , if not more then one Congregation at Antioch , when tidings came to Jerusalem that the Lord had a Church at Antioch , before they sent Barnabas to these Churches , v. 22. and what might this Church grow to when much people was added to the Lord , by the labours of Barnabas ? v. 24. And how was it increased when Barnabas and Paul after that taught the Word to much people a whole yeare ? v. 26. It grew after that a great Church , so that a a Chrysostom . homil . 3. ●● popul . Antioch . Chrysostom commendeth Antioch for the prime Church . And b b Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius saith , for this cause there was a Patriarch appointed at Antioch , which certainly sayth thus much , that it was a more numerous Church then one single Congregation , and c c Cyril . Catech. 7. Cyrillus so extolled the Church of Antioch , because the Disciples were first named Christians there , that he saith , this was the new name that Esaiah said the Mouth of the Lord d d Esai , 62. v. 2 should name , and so doth e e Hilarius l. ● . de Trinitats . Hilarius expound the Text ; which , seeing it is clearely the new glory of the Church of the Gentiles , adjoyned to the Church of the Iewes , it cannot arise from a handfull of a single Congregation , in the mind of these Fathers , and though we love not with some antiquity to make Antioch the first Church before Rome ; yet seeing it was of old before Rome , we may hence collect that that Church which was patriarchall , was not Congregationall , and therefore I make no use hereof , f f Volaterranus l. 5. c. 23. Volaterranus who saith of old the Patriarch of Antioch had under him 14. Metropolitans , 53. Bishops , and 366 Temples , onely it is like that Antiquity hath believed that there was a great number of Believers in this Church at first . Now to These , which to mee prove it was more then one Congregation , wee may adde that there was , Ch. 13. 1. in the Church that was at Antioch , certaine Prophets and Teachers , as they are reckoned out ; These at Antioch Ministered to the Lord , in publick prayers ( saith g g Beza in loc. Beza ) and preaching , and ( saith n n Diodatus an . Diodatus ) in administration also of the Sacraments , and other parts of the Evangelick Ministery i i Oecumenius in loc. Oecumenius 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Now I would know what all these Prophets and Doctors , beside Paul and Barnabas who preached a whole yeare at Antioch , did , in peaching to one single Congregation ? and also it is said , Acts 15. 35. Paul and Barnabas continued at Antioch , Teaching and preaching the Word of Lord 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , with also many others . Certainly here is a Colledge of preaching Pastors , who also did lay hands on Paul and Barnabas , Acts 13. v. 3. which all could not be busied in Teaching one single Congregation at Antioch .

Mr. Mather saith that the whole multitude of the Church of Antioch were gathered together Acts 14. 27. and Acts 15. 30 , 31. Mr. Mather , against Herle c. ●op . 50. to heare the Epistle read which was sent from the Synod . Therefore this Church was no more then might meete in one place .

Answ. I answer , the place Acts 14. 27. is the representative Church , for they met for a poynt of Discipline , at least for a matter that concerned all the Churches , to wit , to know how God had opened the doore of faith to the Gentiles , then must the many thousands of Men and Women , which made up the Church at Ierusalem , Acts 2. 42. Acts 4. 4. Acts 5. 14. Acts 6. 1. v. 7. Acts 21. v. 22. be many Congregations ; now any Man may judge , how unpossible it was for the many thousands of the Church of Ierusalem to meet as one Congregation , for the Lords Supper and matters of Discipline , and it is knowen that the many thousands of the believing Iewes convened to the feast did not make one Church , Acts 21. 20. 21 , 22. for our Brethren say , that was an extraordinary confluence of many people from all ●udea came to the feast of Pentecost . And this , many learned Protestant Divines answer to that place . But 2. I doe believe that the assembling of the multitude at Antioch , c. 15. v. 30. which sayth Judas and Silas gathered to●ether the multitude , and delivered the Epistle , and Acts 11. 26. and Barnabas and Paul their assembling with the Church a yeare , must be taken distributively . And that there were more assemblings of the multitude and Church at Antioch then one , for Silas , Paul , Barnabas abode a good space at Antioch and taught the Word of the Lord with many others , Acts 15. 34 35. and therefore there is no ground or warrant , to say , that the Epistle was read to all that meeting in one day , and at one meeting , and as little warrant there is to say that Barnabas and Paul assembled themselves , Acts 11. 26. with one and the same single Church-assembly consisting of all the Christians at Antioch , in one house , and in one day , the space of the whole yeare in which they abode at Antioch , nor shall I believe that Paul and Barnabas and many other Teachers at Antioch , Acts 15. 35. Acts 11. 20 , 26. Acts 13. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. assembled all in one materiall house at one single Church-convention : but it suteth not with the wisdome of Christ who sent his Disciples out , two by two , for the hastening of the worke , Mat. 10. That they did all , even the many prophets at Antioch , Acts 15. 35. Acts 13. 1. 2. onely bestow their labours upon one single Congregation . And the word Church , and ( Synagogue ) both are taken distributively in the Scripture , and must of necessity be taken so . And so must we take the word , Exod. 12. 6. and so a a Ainsworth an . in Exo. 12. Ainsworth readeth it , and the ( lambe ) shall be kept by you , untill the fourteenth day of this moneth , and the whole Church of the congregation of Israel shall kill it . between the two evenings , & immolabunt eum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 b b Arias Montan Exo. 12. 6. Arias Montanus turneth it , omnis cetus catus Synagogae Israel . Now the Word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in that place must be taken distributively . For all the children of Israel collectively did not meet to slay the Lambe ; for the Text saith , v. 3. it was to be slaine in the House , that is , ( saith c c Ainsworth , Ainsworth ) as the Greeke translateth , Houses . And here v. 3. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 according to the House of their Fathers . The word ( House ) here must bee taken distributively for d d Rivet . com . in Ex. 12. Rivetus with great reason inclineth to thinke that the Passeover was not a Sacrifice properly so called . And truly to me the Lord doth determine the question , Jer. 7. 22. for I spake not to your fathers , nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the Land of Egypt concerning burnt offerings and sacrifice , for 2 Chro. 30 , v. 2. 17. there is no necessity to expound the place of these convivall Lambes of the Passeover , but of other Sacrifices offered at this time , see e e Lyran in . 2. Par. c. 30. Lyran , and f f Caset . ib. Cajetanus . And also g g Corcel . a lap . com in loc. v. 6. Cornelius a lapide saith on the words ( because he can find no ground for the Mosse in the place ) hinc pate● universos sacerdotes non immolasse hos agnos paschales in Templo , uti sentit Claudius Sainctes , 1. Repet . Eucharist . c. 7. Abulensis in Exod. 16. & ex eo Serrarius in Josu . 5. 9. 22. and it is certaine every Master of the Family did slay his owne Lambe , and h h Diodatus on Exod. 12. Diodatus on these words ( in every House ) to shew the communion of the Church , in the enjoying of Christ and his benefi●s . And the i i 70. Inter. seventy Interpreters render the place , Exo. 12. 6. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; and k k Chald. para . the Chaldee paraphrast , &c. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 immolabunt eum omnis Ecclesia filiorum Israel . l l Hieron . Hieron . immolabit eum universa multitudo filiorum Israel . However , there were neither Priests nor Temple as yet in Israel , when they came out of Egypt . And therefore every head of a Family did slay the Lambe , and so the Church of the Congregation distributively taken slew the Lambe , every one by himselfe ; and so is the word ( Synagogue ) taken where it s every way a Congregationall assembly ; as Mat. 13. 54. And when hee was come to His owne Country , He taught them in their Synagogue 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , The word ( Synagogue ) must be taken distributively . For he did not teach in one single Synagogue onely in his own Countrey , but in many Synagogues , one after another , in diverse places , and at divers times ; as it is expounded , Luke 4. 44. and Hee was preacking , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in the Sgnagogues of Galilee , in the plurall number , Mat. 9. 35. He went about all Townes and Villages teaching in their Synagogues , &c. Joh. 18. 54. I ever taught in the Synagogues , and dayly in the Temple whither the Iewes alwayes refort . And therefore ( Synagogue ) Mat. 13. 54. in the singular number must be expounded distributively , for many Synagogues in diverse places and diverse times , and so doe I thinke the word ( Church ) and muluitude Acts 11. 26. Acts 5. 30. must be taken distributively ; and so the word Church is taken . 1 Cor. 14. 19. Yet in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding , that I may teach others , then ten thousand words in an unknowen Tongue . Paul ( I hope ) desired not to speake in a knowen tongue to edifie in one single Congregation of Corinth onely , but in all the Churches where he taught , and 1 Cor. 14 35. It is a shame for a Woman to speake in the Church : the word Church cannot be in that place restricted to the one single Congregation , supposed to meet all in one house at one time in Corinth , because it is a shame for a Woman to preach in all the Churches of the World , as is clear , 1 Tim. 2 , 11 , 12. and Exod. 12. 47. all the Church , ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) of Israel shall doe it , that is , they shall eate the Lambe in their Houses , and shall not break a bone thereof , so the 70. Interpreters render it , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , The Chaldee paraphrast , Omnis caetus Israel faciet illud . It were easie to b●ing infinite instances out of the Word of God 70. Interpreters Chaldee para . to make good that a collective , noun such as 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a Church , is taken distributively . So James 2. 2. if toere came unto your assembly , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a man with a gold Ring , &c. Except the word ( assemblie ) or , Church , be taken distributively and not collectively , it shall follow that all the dispersed Iewes , to whom Iames doth write , have one single place of Church-assembly , as Heb. 10. 25. not forsaking 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , the assembly of your selves together , a● the manner of some is ; but can any inferre from this place , more then from Acts 11. 26. Acts. 15. 35. that all the whole Hebrewes , to whom that Apostle doth write had one ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) single Church-meeting , and one Congregation , in the which they did all meet for worship ? I thinke not : or will it follow that there were none amongst all these Iewes who did separate from any Church-assemblie , except onely from the Church-assembly of a single Congregation , because the Apostle mentioneth onely one single Church-meeting ? I think not , and therefore the Apostles mentioning of one assembling of the Church , acts 11. 26. and of one multitude , in the singular number , acts 15. 30. can never prove that there was but one single Congregation at Antioch . Therefore there be great ●dds betwixt meeting in a Church , and meeting in the Church .

Also Tit. 1. 5. for this cause was Titus left at Creet , that he might appaynt Elders 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in every City , if 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 be not all one with 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Acts 14. 23. acts 16. 4. 5. That is , if ordaining of Elders of every City , bee not as good , as ordaining of Elders in every Church , then must there be but in all , and every City , where ever the Apostles or Evangelists planted Churches , but one single Congregation , and not any more then could meet in a single Congregation ; which is a conjecture , and much contrary to these times when the Gospell admirably grew in the World . And it must follow that every City had but such a competent number as met in one place ; and if this hold , as an uncertaine thing , in great Cities , then must we say an Eldership in a City , and an Eldership of many Congregations were the first planted apostolick Churches , and so rules to us also . And looke what frame of Churches the Apostles did institute in Cities , that same they behoved to institute in Villages also , for places cannot change the frame of any institution of Christ . 2. The communion of Saints and Church-edification is as requisite for Villages , as for Cities .

Arguments removed , which Mr. Richard Mather , and Mr. William Thomson Pastors in New England , in their answer to Mr. Charles Herle , do bring , so far as they make against the authors former Treatises , and a scanning of some Synodicall propositions of the Churches of N. England .

MR. Mather , Mr. Thomson , c. 1. 9. Governing power is only in the Elders , 1 Cor. 12. 28. Rom. 12. 8. Heb. 13. 17. the people hath no power but rather a liberty or priviledge , which when it is exercised about Ordination , Deposition , Excommunication , is of the whole communiter , or in generall , but not of all and every member in particular ; Women for their Sex , children for want of discr●tion are d●barred .

Answ. If there be no governing power in Women , nor any act at all in excommunication . You loose many arguments that you bring , 1 Cor. 5. to prove that all have hand in excommunication . 1. Because Paul writeth to all . 2. All were to mourne . 3. All ware to forbeare the company of the excommunicated men . Then belike Paul writeth not to all Saints at Corinth , not to Women , and Women were not to mourne for the scandall ; nor to forbeare his company . 2. The priviledge being a part of liberty purchased by Christs Body , it must be due to Women , for the liberty wherewith Christ hath made Women free cannot be taken away by any Law of God from their Sex , except in Christ Iesus there be difference betwixt Iew and Gentile , male and female ; nor is it removed because i● i● a power or authority , for the authors say it is no power , but a priviledge . 3. What priviledge the people have in ordination to confer a Ministery which they neither have formally , nor vertually , I know not . But I doe willingly say something here of the peoples power ; The first Synodicall proposition of New England , is .

1. Propos. The fraternity is the first Subject of all Ministeriall power , radicalitèr , idest 〈◊〉 per modum collationis , some say suppletivè , non habitualitèr , non actualit ●r , non formalitèr .

That is , ( if I conceive it right ) The people voyd of all Officers have a vertuall power to conferre a Ministery on their Officers though they have not this power in themselves . I could in some sense yield that Believers not Angells , are capable of the Ministeriall power to exercise it formally , but that Believers doe , or can , by any way of causative influence , make Church-Officers , I see not : they may design a man qualified to bean Officer to the Office , and that is all . But say they , people wanting , or being naked and without all Officers hath not formally or habitually any power in them , this latter part Igrant , and the

2. Proposition I grant , to wit .

That the presbytery is the first subject of all presbyteriall power habitually , and formally . But I doe not see how it standeth with the third proposition ; which is

3. The fraternity or the people without the Officers , and without Women or children , have an authoritative concurrence with the presbytery , in judiciall acts .

Because if the Brethren have an halfe Ministeriall power with the Officers in acts of Jurisdiction and Excommunication , Deposition , and Censures , I see not how there is not a Ministeriall power formally and habitually , at least in part , in the Brethren ; and so contrary to the third proposition , the Prasbytery is not the first subject of all Prebyteriall power , for the brethren are sharers with the Elders in this power . 2. We desire to see it made good by Gods Word , that the brethren have a joynt power of Jurisdiction with the Elders , for the Table giveth them a brotherly publick power not by way of Charity , but a politick Church power , in many eminent acts , especially in those eight ; and that constantly ,

1. In the admission . 1. In Sending Messengers to the Churches . 2. In the excommunication of members . 2. 2. In interpretation of Scripture . 3. In the calling . 3. In a judiciall determination of controversies of Religion in a synod . 4. And Deposition of Ministers . 4. In a power of disposing of things indifferent .

I cannot see any judiciall power , or any farther then a charitative yielding by way of a loving and brotherly consent , that the Scripture giveth to brethren . 3. How this can be denied to be a power of jurisdiction and governing ; and an actuall Ministeriall using of the Keyes of the Kingdome by those who ex officio , by place , and calling are no Officers , I believe is not easily understood . 4. The letter that I saw sayth , that that learned and godly Divine Mr. Cotton and some others thinke , that the Church as it is an Organicall Body made up of Elders , and people is the first subject of all Ecclesiasticall power , and they divide it into a power of authority , and a power of liberty , whereof the power of authority belongeth to the Elders or Eldership , and the power of liberty to the Fraternity , or Brethren that are not Officers ; and therefore these reverend brethren deny any authoritative concurrence to the brethren , and they thinke that the Church as it is an homogeneall body , that is , a company destitute of Officers , cannot formally ordaine , excommunicate , or censure the Elders , though in case of obstinacy they may doe that which is equivalent , and so separate from them .

The 4. Proposition is ;

The fraternity or Brethren in an Organicall Body , or in a ●●med and established Church consisting of Officers and people , act and use their authority , subordinate per modum obedi nt●ae , subordinately , and by way of due obedience to the Elders , 2 C●r . 10. 6.

But I desire a word of Christs Testament for this , where wee a●de that collaterall Judges acting as Judges doe act by way of obedience and subjection one to another : for if the brethren , 1 Cor. 5. convened in Court with the Elders to deliver the incestuous man to Satan , do act in that Court as giving obedience to the Elders , I see not how they concurre authoritatively is sharers with them of that same Ministeriall power : if it be said , brethren though they act as Judges in excommunicating , yet they remaine brethren and a part of the flock , and so in all their morall acts of authoritative concurring with the Elders , they are under the pastorall care of these who watch for Soules , and so they judge and act even in the Court as under subjection to their watchmen , who must give an accompt for their Soules ; I answer , so the Elders in their acts of the most supreame Ministeriall authority and acting in a Church . court , leave not off to be brethren and a part of the flock of Christ , and so in subjection one to another ; for six Elders watch for the Soule of one , and one also for the Soules of six , and so if this were a good reason the Elders should act with subordination of obedience to Elders . As the people act with subordination to the Elders . 2. The place cited for this 2 Cor. 10. 6. where it is said , that the Preachers have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience , must inferre that they are to revenge , by the word which is mighty through God to cast downe strong holds , as is said there , v. 4. 5. even disobedience of Elders ruling unjustly and abusing the Keyes , no lesse then disobedience of the people . And I see not how brethen acting in a Church-Court joyntly with Elders , how in that they put on the relation of the flock , and the part governed in the very act of exercising acts of governing , for otherwayes one Pastor in the act of preaching in the Name of Jesus Christ , and so in authority above these to whom he preacheth , doth preach subordinatè , and as in subjection to the whole organicall and formed Church , who hath power to censure him , if he preach erroneous Doctrine . 3. I see not how the third Proposition doth stand , to wit , that the brethren , share with the Elders in authoritative acts of the Keyes , and yet they ●ct ( according to the. 4. Proposition ) as under the Eldership by way of subjection and obedience to them . Except this be that which our brethren meane , that the people of a single Congregation exercise acts of Jurisdiction by way of dependence , so as they may be censured by the Elders if they erre , but the Elders if they erre , are every way Popes , and so independent ; that there is no Church-power on Earth above them , that in a Church-way may censure them , or call them to an accompt . 4. The Table of New England divideth the actuall exercise of the power in a Charitative power by way of Love and Charity , and a politick or Church-exercise , the politick exercise againe is either brotherly , fraternall , or Presbyteriall ,

and the presbyteriall exercise is either 1. Teaching . or , 2. Governing .

And Teaching is either by way of Office , or Administrating the Sacraments .

The Presbyteriall exercise of the Keyes is independentElders , in the power of governing , sed respect● apotelesmatis s●u complementi censurae , in respect of the effect , or a compleat act of governing , the Elders Rule and Act with dependence upon

the people , in these foure cases 1. In excommunication . 2. In judging . 3. In sentencing the aocused . 4. In election or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in calling of a Minister .

So that the Elders there alone without the people , can exercise none of these acts completely , without the people so heare the Elders depend upon the people in their actuall governing , and the Fraternity or Brethren depend on the Elders by way of subjection , or obedience to them .

Yet give me leave , the letter informeth me that it is said by many learned and godly men in New England , that if their policy should make the government of the Church popular , they should give up the cause . But I conceive the government to be popular , though the people only be not governours , for Mor●llius never taught any such thing ; now this government maketh Elders and people to governe the Church joyntly with mutuall dependence one upon another , which certainly maketh the brethren in the Lord , as well as the Elders ; for if the Elders be not these onely which watch for the peoples Soules as these which must give an accompt Heb. 13. 17 , 18. and they be not onely 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 over the people in the Lord , as is said 1 Thess. 5. 12. 13. Then the brethren must be taken in with them a● joynt governours , as is said Propos. 3. Which certainly must confound the Scripturall order established by God betwixt the Pastors and the Flock , the Watchmen , and the City , the shep●eards and the flock , these who are to obey , and these who are over them in the Lord .

The 5. and 6. Proposition is , The Brethren may not excommunicate an Elder but mediante concilio , by the intervening sentence of the Elders ; is , but the brethren may separate and withdraw from the Presbyteris , after they refuse sound advise .

Answ. 1. This is much contrary to that which they ordinarily teach , to wit , that people destitute of Officers may ordaine and excommunicate their Officers . 2. By this learning the Soules of Elders are in an hard case , for when they do all scandalously 〈◊〉 , there is no Ecclesiasticall meane of edifying them , for there is no Church on Earth to excomunicate Elders when they ●●re . Separation from them is an unwarrantable way , except they be excommunicated . 3. In the case of the Elderships incorrigible scandalls , the power of excommunication retireth into the brethren . yet it was never formally in the brethren , nor can they exercise this power , but mediante Presbyteri● , that is , they cannot excommunicate the Eldership , but by the Judiciall sentence of the Eldership , and so the power is but a shadow .

Mr. Mather , Mr. Thomson , cap. 2. pag. 16 , 17. though some have appealed , as Luther and Cranmer from the Pope to a generall councell . Yet not from a Congreation to a generall councell .

Answ. In matters doctrinall , some as Luther and others have justly appealed from a Congregation , to a generall councell , though Luther and Cranmer did it not ; though verily I professe I cannot see what power of Jurisdiction to censure scandalls can be in a generall councell , there may be some meerly Doctrinall power , if such a councell could be had , and that is all .

M. Mather , Mr. Thomson , c. 2. pag: 20. if Churches be dependent on Synods , because the light of nature teacheth a communion and assistance in government , by the same reason Churches must end in a Monarchy on Earth .

Answ. I see this sayd , without any probation . Churches depend on many above them for unity ; but what consequence is this ; Ergo , they depend upon one visible Monarch . It is an unjust consequence .

Mr. Mather , Mr. Thomson , c. 2 , pag. 26. The Graecians and Hebrewes made not two Churches , but one Congregation , they called the multitude of Disciples together , v. 2.

Answ. That the chiefe of both Grecians and Hebrewes were convened in one to give their consent to the admission of their Officers the Deacons , I conceive ; but that all the thousands of the Church of Jerusalem were here , as in one ordinary Congregation I judge unpossible .

Mr. Mather , c. 3. pag. 27. 28. If your argument be good , if thy Brother offend and refuse to submit tell the Church , because Christs Remedy must be as large as the Disease : then if a Nationall Church offend , you are to complaine to a higher Church above a Nationall Church ; and because offences may arise betwixt Christians and Indians , you may complain of an Indian to the Church .

Ans. Because ordinary communion faileth , when you got higher then a Nationall Church , and Christs way suppoleth an ordinary Communion , as is cleare . If thy Brother offend , &c. Therefore I deny that this remedy is needfull in any Church above a Nationall Church . 2. Christs remedy is a Church . remedy for Offences amongst brethren , and Members of the visible Church . And Indians are no Members of the Church , and so being without , they cannot bee judged , 1 Co. 5. 12.

We say that if the Magistrate be an enemy to Religion , may not the Church without him convene and renew a Covenant with God ? Mr. Mather , and Mr. Thomson answer , c. 3. pag. 29. if the supreame Magistrate be an enemy to Religion , it is not like , but most or many of the people will be of the same mind . Regis ad exemplum — as it is in France , and Spaine , and was in the dayes of Queene Mary , and then the Believers in the Land will not be able to beare the name of the Land or Nation , but of a small part thereof ; nor can it be well conceived how they should assemble in a Nationall Synod , for that , or any other purpose , when the Magistrate is a professed Enemie , nor doth God require it at their hands .

Answ. This is a weake answer : the Christians under Ner● were not like their Prince , and it s not like but sincere Christians will bee sincere Christians and professe truth . even when the Magistrate is an enemy . And 2. If your meaning be , it cannot be conceived how they should assemble in a Nationall assembly when the Magistrate is an Enemy ; because it is not safe for feare of persecution . Then you say nothing to the argument , because the argument is drawen from a duty , a Nation professing the Gospell after many backslidings are obliged to convene in a Nationall Synod , and are to renew their Covenant with the Lord , and your answer is from an ill of affliction : and if you meane that because the Princes power is against their Synodicall convening , this is nothing against the power of the Synods that CHRIST hath given to His Church ; But if your meaning be that it is not lawfull to them to convene in a Nationall Synod to renew a Covenant with GOD against the supreame Magistrates will , I hope you minde no such thing● ; for so doe Malignants a a The. Fuller , truth maintained pag 26 27 , 28. Now alledge that wee never read of any Reformation of Religion in Scripture warranted , but where the Prince did contribute his authority , because he onely is to reforme , and he onely rebuked for the standing of the high places , but hee may soone be answered .

1. Both Israel and Iudah were so bent to backsliding , that wee read not that ever the people made any reall Reformation of Religion , Josiah , Hezekiah and Asa did it for them . But what an argument is this : Iudah did never , for the most of the Land , seeke the Lord God of their Fathers with all their heart ; Ergo , the seeking of the Lord God with all the heart is an unwritten tradition ?

2. Princes are obliged to remove high places ; But are they obliged with their owne Hands to breake all the Images ? No , I thinke if they remove the high places by the Hands of their Subjects , or command their Subjects to remove them , they doe full well . But I see not this consequence . Ergo , Princes onely are obliged to remove the high places , it followeth not .

3. If it be the Princes part to command his Subjects this duty of Reformation and removall of the high places , then they may performe their duty without the Prince .

4. There is a twofold Reformation , one an heart-Reformation . Sure this is not the Princes onely . All the Land may repent without the King . There is another , an outward Reformation . And that is twofold , either Negative , or Positive● Negative is to refraine from ill , and the unlawfull and superstitious manner of worshipping GOD , as in new Offices not warranted by his Word , Antichristian Ceremonies , and a Masse-Booke , &c. Certainly all the Land are to abstaine from sinne , though the King command not : now all the Reformation for the most part in both Kingdomes is in obstinence from superstitious superadditions that defiled the worship of GOD , and to this there is no necessity of the Magistrates authority , more then wee need● the Kings warrant , to put an Obligation upon Gods Negative Commandements . All that is Positive is the swearing of a lawfull Covenant to observe and stand by the faith and true Religion of the Land , but I see no more a necessity that a King warrant the lawfull Vow of twenty thousand , then the Lawfull Vow of one Man , seeing it is a lawfull profession of CHRIST before Men commanded in the third Commandement . And to the observance of that Law of God , which God and Conscience hic & nunc doe oblige us , there is no addition of a Kingly authority by necessity of a Divine Law required to make it valid , no more then if all the Kingdome at such a solemne day of humiliation , should all in every severall Church sweare to Reformation of life .

5. The Apostles and Christ positively did reforme Religion , and the Church without and contrary to the mind of civill authority , nor is it enough to say the Apostles were Apostles , but wee are not Apostles , for upon this morall ground , Acts 5. 29. Wee ought rather to obey GOD than man , ) they reformed contrary to the Magistrates mind . And wee doe but contend for that very same Faith , Jud. 3. which was once delivered to the Saints . So to Reforme is to seeke the old way , and to walks in it , Jeremy 6. 16. to turne to the LORD with all the heart , Jeremy 1. and for this cause , Jeremy 3. 10. Iudah is sayd not to veturue to the LORD with her whole heart , but fainedly , because when a zealous King reformed , them they returned not with all their heart . Whence Reformation of Religion must bee the peoples duty , no lesse then the Kings ; and I believe such a divine precept carrying the new sense of our Malignant Divines should bee black policy , not sound Divinity , if any Ierimiah or Prophet should say ; amend your wayes and turne to the LORD with all your heart , and put away your Idolls and your strange Gods , providing the King will goe before you , and command you so to doe . Hence I say that 's a poore Court-argument of Parasites for Kings . Wee never read of any Reformation of Religion in Israel and Judah but when holy and zealous Kings commanded the Reformation ; Ergo , the Reformation begun in Scotland without the consent of the Supreame Magistrate , and a Reformation now prosecuted in England against the Kings will is unlawfull . To which . I desire the Malignant Divines to receive these answers for Justifying the zeale of both Kingdomes in their Reformation .

1. It is a question , if they question not the Reformation according to the substance of the action , that is , if they are not offended that the Queenes Masse , the popery of Prelates and Divines under their wings , and their Arminianisme , and Socinianisme should be abolished , or if they condemne not the Doctrine , but question onely the manner of abolishing such Heterodox stuffe . If the former be said , i● is knowen , never Malignant , Prelate or other had grace , by Word , or Writing , to entreate his M●jesty for a Reformation , and this is enough for the former . If they meane the latter , they bee very like the Pharisees , who when they durst not question the Doctrine and Miracles of Christ , they onely questioned the manner of doing . And sayd by what authority doest thou these ? But because they are joyned to the Papists side , and fight under their banner ; It is most evident it galleth their stomacks , that Popery , Atminianisine , and Socinianisme are cryed downe ; else the manner of doing a good worke , and such a necessary worke as Reformation , would not have offended them so highly , as to move them to kill the people of GOD ; an error in the circumstances of a good worke is very veniall to Papists and Arminians .

2. Let them give to us , since they argue from a practice , a warrant of any such practice , where a whole Land went on in a Negative Reformation without the Prince Ergo , Negative precepts , by this logick , shall lay no divine obligation on us , except it bee the Kings will to forbid that which GOD forbiddeth , then suppose Episcopacy and the Ceremonies were the Idoll of the Masse established by a standing Law , it should bee unlawfull for the Kingdomes to forbeare and abstaine from Idolatry , except the Kings Law forbid Idolatry . What were this else but to say , we are obliged to obey Christs will , but not except with a Reservation of the Kings will ?

3. This is an argument Negative , from one particular in Scripture , and therefore not concludent . For it is thus , Reformation without the King wanteth a practise in the Sc●ipture ; Ergo , it is unlawfull , it followeth not , except it want Precept , Promise and Practise , for the argument Negative from Scripture is onely undeniable in this sense ; And in this sense onely pressed by our Divines against Papists . And therefore it is like this argument , Purgatory is not commanded in this Chapter , Idolatry is not forbi●den in this Commandement , Ergo , neither Purgatorie , nor Idolatry is forbidden in Gods Word . So let the adversaries give me a practise in the Word of God , where a Brother kept this order of Christs three Steps , Mat. 18.

First , to reprove an offender alone .

Secondly , before two or three witnesses .

Thirdly , in case of obstinacy , to tell the Church ; and to these adde , that the man was by the Church to be reputed as an heathen and a Publican . And I hope , because such a practise we doe not read , yet it followeth not that it is unlawfull . So where read you a Man forgiving his Brother seventy seven times : Ergo , it is unlawfull to forgive him seventy and seven times ? Where read you that Christ and His Apostles , and the Christian Church in the New Testament raised Warre and Armies either to defend or offend , but I hope Anabaptists have not hence ground to inferre , then must all Warres be unlawfull to Christians , for wee can produce warrantable precepts , where we want practise .

Fourthly , where it is said , Kings onely are rebuked for not removing high places , and Kings onely are commended , because they are removed , therefore none should reforme but Kings . This followeth no wayes , but onely Kings by Royall authority should reforme ; but it followeth not ; Ergo , the people without the King are not obliged to reforme themselves in their manner , for I am sure , that the people should all universally resolve and agree , never to sacrifice in the high places and accordingly to practise : And to sacrifice onely in the place which the Lord had chosen to place His Name there , at GODS expresse Law commanded , Deuteronomy 13. 23. Deuteronomy 12. 14. 18. Deuteronomy 16. 2. 7. 11. 15. Deut. 31. 11. had beene a removall of the high places and a warrantable Reformation , though the King should have , by a standing Law , commanded that they should sacrifice in the high places , for the people are rebuked , because 2 Kings 17. 11. They burnt Incense in all the high places , 2 Chronicles 33. 17. Hosea 4. 13. and , a Chronicles 20. 33. the reason why the high places were not taken away , is : For as yet the people had not prepared their Hearts unto the GOD of their Fathers . If then not Sacrificing in the high places was the peoples duty , they were to remove the high places , in their place ; and so farre to reforme without the KING , yea suppose the KING command the contrary , the people ought to obey GOD , and the Parliament may by GODS Law abolish Episcopacy , popish Ceremonics , and the popish Service though the KING consent not , upon this ground that those he the high places of England , for the which the Wrath of the Lord is kindled against the Land .

Fifthly , the adversaries may read , 2 Chronicles 15. 9. That the Strangers out of Ephraim , and Manasseh and Simeon gathered themselves together to Asa without the consent of their KING , and did enter in a Covenant to seek the Lord God of their Fathers .

Sixtly , the Pastors of the Land are obliged to preach all necessary truth , without the KING , and accordingly are to practise what they preach ; now Reformation is a most necessary truth , they are then to reforme themselves and Religion without the KING : for the Word of GOD , not the KINGS will is the Pastors rule in preaching , and hee is to separate the pretious from the vile , that hee may be as Gods Mouth , Jeremy 15. 19. and Ezekiel 2. 7. Thou shalt speake my words unto them , that was the Doctrine of Reformation , not the KINGS words , vers. 8. But , thou sonne of man , heare what I say to thee ; yea Pastors are to preach against Kings and their sinnes , 1 Kings 13. 1. 2. 3. Jer. 1. 18. Ier. 26. 10 , 11 , 12.

Seventhly , if no Reformation can be without the KING , 1. People are not to turne to the Lord , and repent th●m of the evill of their doings , and to prevent the Babylonish captivity , or a worse judgement , except the KING will , and all Religion and. 2. Church-worship must bee resolved ultimately on the KINGS will and pleasure : for if it be not the KINGS pleasure to reforme , the people must continue still where they were , and Scotland who contrary to the will and heart of authority at our first Reformation put away the Masse and Popery , and established Religion in sincerity , is greatly to bee condemned . Luther had authority against him , and the powers of the World , it was one point of Reformation that John Baptist tooke up , against the Law of the Land to preach against Herods sinne ; for if Popery be in a Land , to leave Popery is a great degree of Reformation , and if the people , without the Prince , may goe on in the greatest step of Reformation , why not also in the lesser ? except you say the people without the King , are not to abstaine from the grossest Idolatry under the Sunne , which is to worship and adore the worke of the Bakers hands .

Mr. Mather , Mr. Thomson . The name Church , 1 Cor. 14. 4 , 5. 35. 26 , 27. 28. is plainly given to that company that did assemble and come together for performance of spirituall duties , and for the exercise of spirituall gifts , as Acts 14. C. 3. pag. 32. 27. Acts 11. 26. 15. 4. 22. 30. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20 22. 23. 3. Ioh. 6. which places doe abundantly shew that a company gathered together to one place is called by the name Church , as Cenc●rea , Rom. 16. 1. which could not containe many Congregations , being but the prot of Corinth .

Answ. We seeke no more , if it be called a Church which conveneth for performance of spirituall duties : as some of your places doe well prove ; Ergo , no assembly should have the name of Church , but such as assemble for Word and Sacraments ; this now you cannot affirme , and it followeth not , the Church spoken of Matthew 18. is not assembled to Word and Sacraments , But to bind and loose on Earth . The meeting , 1 Cor. 5. 4. is not for Word and Sacraments , but to deliver to Satan , for ought wee can read , the word Church , Acts 14. 27. is not an Assembly for Word and Sacraments ; but to heare how God had opened the doors of Faith to the Gentiles , and whether this was preaching of the Word and receiving the Sacraments , or rather a matter that concerned the Apostles and Elders that they might not thinke hard to preach the Gospell to the Gentiles , I leave to the judicious Reader ; and if to be received of the Church , Acts 15. 4. be a matter of word and Sacraments , let all judge . And if to lend a decree of a Synod , Acts 15. 22. be the act of a Church assembled for word and Sacraments , let the World judge : and therefore all these places doe strongly confirme a Presbytery assembled for acts of Iurisdiction , and matters that belong to many Churches , as is most cleare , Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4. Acts 15. 22. and seeing wee finde the name ( Church ) given to a meeting assembled onely for discipline or things that concerne many Churches , for any thing wee can read or observe from the word : as Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 4 22. 30. Matthew 18. 17. and also the word Church given to a meeting assembled for the word , 1 Cor. 14. 1 Cor. 11. 18. 20 , 22 , 23. Rom. 16. 1. and not for acts of Jurisdiction for ought that wee can collect from the word . I beseech you , Brethren , why doe we contend ? if the word Church , be a meeting of persons assembled to one place , for spirituall duties , sometimes for word and Sacraments onely , sometimes for acts of Jurisdiction onely , then is the word Church , by our brethrens argument taken both for the Congregation , and for the Elders of one , or of diverse Churches ; and so wee have our intent . And we desire our brethren to prove ( which they must prove , if they oppose our principles ) that the word ( Church ) is never taken for the Eldership onely , in all the Word of God , but these places prove the contrary , as I have shewen . 2. Whereas our brethren say ; a company gathered into one place ( which is nothing else but a Congregation ) are called by the name of a Church . I answer 1. Such a company is onely called by the name of a Church , as I have proved ; for a company meeting for discipline onely , Matthew 18. 17 1 Cor. 5. 4. is a Church also . 2. It is false that a company gathered in one place are nothing else but a Congregation . As you take the word ( Congregation ) for to you ( Congregation ) is an assembly of men and Women meeting for word and Sacrament with the Elders of the Church , I appeale to the judgement of our reverend brethren ; If the Church , Mat. 18. 17. assembled to bind and loose , if the Church , 1 Cor. 5. 4. ( though the Text speake nothing of the word ( Church ) assembled to deliver to Satan . If the Church assembled , Acts 14. 27. Acts 15. 2. to heare things which concerned the Apostles , and many Churches , rather then one ; If the multitude convened , Acts 15. 30. to heare the decree of the Synod read , and if the Church of Apostles and Elders from Antiosh and Ierusalem . Acts 15. 22. be a Congregation or a Congregationall Church assembled for word and Sacraments , as the word Church is taken , Acts 11. 26. 1 Cor. 11 20 , 22 , 33.

Mr. Mather , and Mr. Thomson , Num. 8. 10. The children of Cap. 3. pag. ●● . Ordination . Israel which were not the Church of Officers layd on hands on the Levites , therefore when a Church hath no Elders the people may conferre ordination , and it is not to be tyed to the Presbytery onely . Hence other of our Brethren say , ordination is but accidentall to a Ministers calling , and may be wanting , if the people shall chuse , in the defect of Elders .

Answ. Here two poynts are to be discussed shortly . 1. If Ordination belong to the People . 2. If Ordination to a certaine stick be necessary , for certainly the people doe not call but to a certaine flock . To the first I say ; There is not a place in all the Word of God where the people conferre ordination to the Pastors of the New Testament . Therefore our brethren flee to the Old Testament to prove it from the Levites who received imposition of hands from the children of Israel ; but our brethren hold , that the calling of the Levites and of the Pastors of the New Testament are different , as the Officers and Churches of the Jewish and Christian Church are different . 2. Our brethren grant pag. 49. That it wanteth all example in the New Testament that the people lay on hands . 3. These who layd on hands on the Levite , Num. 8. were Elders and ( our brethren say , ) It is like they were , but. 1. They did it not as Elders . 2. But as representing the people , not as Elders civill , for that belonged to Aaron and his sonnes , Levit. 8. else it will follow that where the Church Page 46. hath no Magistrate to lay on hands , the Church may doe it . Nor did they lay on hands as Ecclesiasticall Elders , because what these which layd on hands did , they did as from the Congregation for 1. These Levites were taken in stead of the first borne of Israel and not in stead of the first borne of the Elders only , Num. 3 40 , 41. 2. They were presented to the Lord , as an offering of the children of Israel , not of the Elders only . 3. When the multitude brought an oblation , the Elders put their hands on the head of the sacrifice Levit. 4. 15. in stead of all the multitude .

Answ. These who layd on hands , did it as a worke peculiar to the Elders , because the Elders were a part of the first borne , who by Office were Elders , and in whose stead the Levites were assumed , Num. 3. 40. 41. else the Church of Israel being a constituted Church before this time , wanted Officers , which is against all truth . 2. We grant the Magistrates layd not on hands , but they who layd on hands did it as Ecclesiasticall Elders . And the reasons against this conclude not . 1. The first reason concludeth not because these who layd on hands were the first borne , who by Office were Church men . 2. The other two reasons prove nothing , for because these who layd on hands , did lay on hands as representing the whole Congregation , alas it doth no wayes conclude that they layd not on hands as it is a works peculiar to them as Elders , for the Priest offered sacrifice first for his owne sinnes , and then for the peoples , Heb. 7. 27. and so did represent the people . But , I hope , it followeth not that therefore the Priest did not sacrifice as a Priest , and by vertue of a peculiar Office , but onely as a principall member of the Congregation . 3. What if there be no Elders in a single Congregation , as our brethren suppose there were no Elders in Office in Israel to lay hands on the Levites ? it will not follow therefore , the people are to lay on hands , except there were no Elders in all the Land or Nationall Church to lay on hands . And though I thinke imposition of hands not so essentiall perhaps as a Minister can be no Minister without it , yet I thinke not so of Ordination ( for these to mee are as different as the authoritative calling of a Minster , and a rite annexed to that calling ) because none can be a Minister in a constituted Church , but one which is called of God as was Aaron . But you will say , in a Church , in an Island one may bee a Pastor without any ordination , if the people elect him , and there be no Elders to ordaine .

I answer , it is true : but so many Pastors send a Pastor to bee a Pastor to a Congregation , though that Congregation never chuse him , as possibly they bee for the most part Popish , or unwilling , yet both Cases are extraordinary and the Church not constituted and established .

M. Mather , if the people may elect Officers , then in some cases they may ordaine them ! also , because ordination is lesse then I● 46 , 47. election , and dependeth , upon it as a necessary antecedent , and it is nothing but a● consummation of election , or the admission of a person into the possession of that Office , whereto hee had right before by election . If then a single Congregation may elect , which is the greater , they may ordaine which is the lesser .

Answ. Ordination is the more , and election the lesse ; for ordination is an act authoritative of the Presbytery , 1 Tim. 4. 14. and , for ought I see , the authors might argue thus , the people may ordaine ; Ergo , they may preach and baptize , for all the three are presbyteriall acts given to men in office . 2. Some doubt if I said rightly in my former Treatise , that ordination is prior to election , because ordination is that whereby a Minister is made a Minister , and election that whereby he who is a Minister first by order of nature , is made the Minister of such a fl●ck . I will not contend with any of either sides for order . But when I said so , I tooke the word ( election ) for the peoples actuall receiving and their compleat taking him for their Minister , after hee is now ordained a Minister this is his installing in his Office . And my reason is ; because the peoples naming of such a man to bee their pastor doth stand with his never being their pastor ; hee being unwilling to be their pastor , and the presbytery thinking it unfit hee be the pastor of such a people . 2. The people elect him as a pastor to be their pastor , they doe not elect him as a gifted man . And whereas some say . Acts 6. 3. 4 , 5. Election of seven men to be Deacons goeth before ordination and imposition of hands , v. 6.

Answ. Election of the people goeth before ordination in the relation of Luke , true ; Ergo , election is prior by order of nature , it followeth not . But Acts 1. Ordination of Matthias ( God casting the lot upon him , vers. 25. ) is prior to the peoples electing of him , for the peoples appoynting of two , vers. 23. cannot be their election ; for they were to elect one , but I submit to the learneder my thoughts in this . As also my tearming Paphnutius neither Bishop nor Elder at the Councell of Nice , which I did not as denying him to bee a Bishop , but because hee was called to that Councell of Nice where as before hee had beene deprived , but was restored by Constantine , though in the estimation of these who contended for the single life of Priests , whose corruptions Paphnutius opposed , hee was in an Ecclesiasticall sense neither Bishop nor Presbyter but deprived from both . But let the righteous rebuke mee , and it shall be as Oyle to my Head . 3. It cannot bee that election of the people is the whole calling of a man to the Ministerie , and Ordination onely a supplement and an consummatory rite , or a benedictory signe which may bee spared . 1. Because by the imposition of the bands of the Presbytery , Timothy was made a Minister , 1 Timothy 4. 14. Paul and Silas separatted to preach to the Gentiles , Acts 13. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. the Deacons ordained , Acts 6. 6. and this is enjoyned with the right manner of acting it to Timothy , 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. as a Ministeriall act. 2. A Ministeriall caling standeth in an authoritative sending , Romans 10. 15. and I see not well how the people themselves doe send a Minister to themselves . (3) The people have not either formally , or by any grant of CHRIST , vertually , the Keyes committed to them , how then can they give the Keyes to pastors ? 4. People may as the Sheepe of CHRIST , Ioh. 10. decern His Voyce , and so have a power of Election of their owne pastors , nor doth this make good which our Brethren say .

Mr. Mather sayth , that because they are all taught of God , C. 5. page 51. Esa. 54. 13. and they knew Christs ' Doctrine , Joh: 7. therefore they may judge of a Ministers fitnesse , for it is plaine that there it a twofold knowledge ; one of Christians , Esal . 54. 13. not denied to Women and believing Children , who cannot lay on hands nor ordaine Ministers , as the presbytery doth , 1 Timothy 4. 14. Acts 6. 6. Acts 13. 1 2. 3. 1 Timothy 5. 22. 2 Timothy 2. 2. but for trying of Ministers if they bee the sonnes of the Prophets and must be apt to teach , 1 Timothy 3. 1 , 2. able to convince subtile Hereticks and gain-sayers and to put them to silence , Titus 1. 10. 11. there must be in a constituted Church a Colledge of pastors and prophets to try the prophets , with a presbyteriall Cognizance .

But here some object . If Election bee absolutely in the h●●ds of the people , then is the peoples will , because will , the absolute determiner who shall be the Pastor to such a flock ; but people certainly may erre , therefore the Presbytery must bee the last determiner in election ; And people have onely a rationall consent , and if their consent be irrationall , the Presbyter must chuse for them .

I answer shortly in these propositions .

1 Pro. Neither is the People infallible in chusing , nor the Presbytery infallible in regulating the peoples choice , yet is power of regulating the choice , the presbyteries due , nor power of election to be denied to Gods people .

2. Pro. You must suppose the Church a settled and an established Church of sound professors , for if the Congregation or presbytery , either of them be , for the most part , popish , Arminian or unsound in the Faith , in so far hath Christ given neither power to the one , or other .

3. Prop. When it is acknowledged by both people and presbytery , that of two or three men , any one is qualified for the place , then the man is absolutely to bee referred to the peoples choice , and though the people give no reason why they chuse this man , rather then any of the other two , yet i● the Peoples choice reasonable , for no doubt Acts. 6. there were more men then these seven of good report and full of the Holy Ghost , and fit to be Deacons , therefore the multitudes choice of these seven , and their nomination of them to be Apostles rather then the nomination of any other men is rationall and approved by the twelve Apostles , though they give no reason ; Yea , though Nicolas be the S●ctmaster of the Nicolaitans ( as the learned thinke ) yet the election is Ecclesiastically lawfull and needeth not that a reason be given to the Apostles .

4. Prop. We never read that in the Apostles-Church a man was obt●uded upon the people against their will . And therefore Election by the people in the Apostolique Church , as Acts 1. 26. Acts 6. 2 , 3 , 4. Revel. 2. 12. Acts 20. 28. must be our rule , any election without the peoples consent must be no Election , for if it please not the whole multitude , as Acts 6. 5. it is not a choice .

5. Prop. We must distinguish Election and Regulation of the Election .

2. There is a Regulation of the Election , positive ; and a Regulation negative . Hence the presbyteries power consisteth only in a negative regulation of the peoples choice , not in a positive ; For example , Election is an elicit act of the people , and their birthright and priviledge that Christ hath given to them , and it cannot be taken from them ; if there be any Election , it must be made by the people , the presbytery even in case of the peoples aberration cannot usurpe the act of Election ; because the Apostles , who yet had the gift of discerning spirits , in a greater measure then the multitude , remit the choice of the seven Deacons to the multitude ; Ergo , the presbytery should doe the same ; yet may the presbytery negatively reggulate the Election , and if the people out of the humour of itching eares chuse an unfit man , in that case the presbytery may declare the Election irregular and null ; as suppose the multitude , Acts 6 had chosen such a man , or all the seven men , like Simon Magus , the twelve Apostles by their Ministeriall power might have impeded that Election , or rather nomination as irregular , and put them to chuse other seven men ; but the Apostles could not have chosen for them other seven , for then Election should have bin taken out of the peoples hands ; Hence that distinction of elicit and imperate acts , even as the understanding commandeth and directeth the will to such and such elicit . actions , and regulateth the will therein , and yet the understanding can neither nill , nor will , and the King may punish pastors who preach Hereticall doct in & vitiate the Sacrament ; but the King can neither preach the word himself , nor administate the Sacraments ; so the presbytery may regulate negatively and hinderth Election of an unfit man , but the presbytery cannot do , as the P●elate did who would name a man to the people , and desire their consent ( but consent is not all , the presbytery and neighbour Congregations have consent , but no elective liberty given them by Christ ) but if the people refused their consent , he Prelate without more a do , chose and ordained the man , and so he was obtruded on the people without any Election at all .

Ordination of an ordinary pastor is always to a certain flock , Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 1. Rev. 2. 1. yet here must we distinguish'd dedication to Christs service by the office . 2. The exercise of the office , in the former respect the pastor is a pastor every where , and may be sent as a Pastor to plant Churches , but ratione finis . He is primariò principally to feed this flock , and secundario and ratione med●i , secondarily , while he feedeth this flock , he feedeth the Church universall .

Mr. Mather , if people may not m●dle with ordination , because it Ib. c. 59. is proper to Timothy and Titus , this may prove that they were Bishops who did ordaine Elders there alone , which ministers may not do there ; for these Epistles are not written to them , as Bishops alone , nor as Elders alone , but as to a mixt state , including the people .

Answ. Some parcells of these Epistles are written to Timothy and Titus as Evangelists , such as none may now do but they only , ●● 2 Tim. 4. 4. 1 Tit. 1. 3. Tim. 1. 5. and some other things which they gave in charge to Elders . 2. Some things are written to them as Christians , as 1 Tim. 1. 19. Tit. 3. 3. & finaliter or objectively all is written for the Churches good ; but (3) the builk of the Epistle is written to them as Elders , and is a rule of perpetuall government , and especially , 1 Tim. 1. 22. 2. Tim. 2. 2. for these and the like they were to doe with the presbytery , as is cleare , 1 Tim. 1. 14.

Object . The Congregations of Jerusalem were not fixed in their members and officers , onely the Apostles preached to them ( if they were many congregations , which is possible ) in a circular way , now one Apostle to this assembly , then another . But in regard not one Paster could say ( this is my flock , not this ) nor any flock could say ( Peter is our Pastor , not Andrew . ) Therefore there was no Church-state in any of these congregations as where there is not a head of a Family and members , there is not a Family , and so you prove not Jerusalem a presbyteriall Church over many fixed and formed Churches , as they are in Scotland , and if the Apostles were pastors in a circular and fluid way to many congregations , every one was a pastor to many congregations and so elected by many congregations : which is absurd .

Ans. 1. Fixed or not fixed cannot vary the essence of the government . 1. The Priests , Levites , and Prophets teaching in the wildernes from place to place , and the people by war scattered to sundry Tribes , doth not make these meetings not to be under the government of the great Sanedrim , more then if the meeting made a fixed Synagogue , divers members and dverso heads in one Family occasioned by death , and pestilence , diverse Souldiers and new Commanders in a Regiment , diverse Inhabitants , yea and weekly altered rulers and watchmen in a City , doth not infer that that family , Regiment , and City is not under one government of the City , one of the whole army , and one parliamentary law of the whole kingdome ; no more then if all were fixed in members and heads . 2. Churches their persecution may have both members and teachers removed to a corner , and altered , yet they remain the same single Congregation having the same government . 3. Officiating in the same word , seales , censures , by Peter , to day , and by Andrew , to morrow , though members also be changed , is of the same species and nature , even to the worlds and , if we suppose the Church of Ierusalem to be one Congregation induring a patterne these sixteen hundred yeares , members and officers must be often altered , yet it is one Congregation in specie , and one single Church in nature , though not in number , and the government not altered , through the fluidity and alteration of members and officers , as it is the same Parliament now which was in the raigne of King Iames , though head and members be altered ; fluidity and alteration of rulers and members must be , by reason of mortality accidentall to all incorporations , and yet their government for all that doth remaine the same in nature , if these same Lawes , and Government in nature by these Lawes remaine .

CHAP. 4. SECT. 5.

Why we doe not admit the Members of the Churches of Old England to The way of Churches of Christ in New England . the Seales of the Covenant .

Quest. I. WHether the Seales of the Covenant can be denyed to professors of approved piety , because they are not members of a particular visible Church , in the New Testament .

Our Brethren deny any Church Communion , and the seales of the Covenant , Baptisme , to the children of Beleevers , the Lords Supper to beleevers themselves , who come to them from Old England , because they be not members of the particular Congregation to which they come , and because there is no visible , Church in the New Testament , but one particular Parish , and all who are without a particular Parish , are without the visible Church , and so are not capable of either Church censures , or the Seales of the Covenant , because 〈◊〉 have right to the seales of the Covenant , but onely this visible Church .

We hold all who professe faith in Christ , to be members of the visible Church , though they bee not members of a visible Congregation , and that the seales of the Covenant should not be denyed to them . And for more full clearing of the question , let these considerations be observed .

First , Dist. All beleevers , as beleevers , in foro Dei , before God have right to the seales of the Covenant , these to whom the Covenant and body of the Charter belongeth , to these the seale belongeth , but in foro Ecclesiastico , and in an orderly Church-way , the seales are not to be conferred by the Church upon persons because they beleeve , but because they professe their beleeving : therefore the Apostles never baptized Pagans , but upon profession of their faith .

Second Dist. Faith in Christ truely giveth right to the seales of the Covenant , and in Gods intention and decree , called voluntas beneplaciti , they belong onely to the invisible Church , but the orderly way ●f the Churches giving the seales , is , because such a society is a professing or visible Church , and orderly giving of the seales according to Gods approving will , called , voluntas signi & revelata , belongeth to the visible Church .

Third Dist. The Church may orderly and lawfully give the seales of the Covenant to those to whom the Covenant and promises of grace doth not belong in Gods decree of election .

Fourth Dist. The Church may lawfully adde to the Church visible , such as God addeth not to the Church invisible , as they may adde Simon Magus , and the Church may lawfully cast out of the visible Church , such as Christ hath not cast out of the invisible Church , as the Church may excommunicate regenerate persons for scandalous sinnes .

Fift Dist. Then the regenerate excommunicated have right to the seales of the Covenant , as they have to the Covenant , and yet the Church doth lawfully debarre them , hic & nunc , in such a scandalous case , from the seales of the Covenant .

Wee hold that those who are not members of a particular Congregation , may lawfully be admitted to the seales of the Covenant .

First , Because those to whom the promises are made , and professe the Covenant , these should be baptized . But men of approved piety are such , though they be not members of a particular Parish . The proposition is Peters argument , Act. 2. 38.

Secondly , Those who are not Members of a particular Church may be visible professors , and so members of a visible Church , Ergo , the seales of the Covenant belongeth to them .

Thirdly , The contrary opinion hath no warrant in Gods Word .

Fourthly , The Apostles required no more of those whom they baptized , but profession of beleefe , as Act. 10. 47. Can any forbid water that these should not be baptized , who have received the Holy Ghost , as well as we ? Act. 8. 37. If thou beleevest with all thy heart , thou mayest he baptized : no more is sought of the Jaylor , Act. 16. 31. 34.

The Authour saith : To admit to the Seales of the Covenant , is The way of the Churches of New England , Chap. 4. Sect 5. not an act of Christian liberty , that every Christian may dispense to whom he pleaseth , but an act of Church power given to the Ministers , to dispense to those over whom the Holy Ghost hath made them overseers ; but we have no Ministeriall power over those of another Congregation , and who are not members of a particular Congregation .

Answ. First , To dispense the Seales to whom we please , as if mens pleasure were a rule , were licentiousnesse , not Christian Liberty . There may be a communion of benefits , where there is no communion of punishment : Beneficia sunt amplianda .

Secondly , It is false that Pastors have no Ministeriall power over those who are not of their Congregation ; for if so , all communion of Churches should fall , for Letters of recommendation from other Churches , whereof they are Members , cannot make Pastors of New England to have a Ministeriall power over those of another Congregation , as set over them , by the Holy Ghost , as they are set over their owne Parish , to whom they be onely Pastors , having Ministeriall power , by a Church Covenant , and the peoples Ordination , as our Brethren teach .

2. Manuser . Those over whom ( saith our Authour ) we have no power of censure , over those we have no power to dispense the communion . Now if we should censure any such for drunkennesse , or other scandals , who are not of our Congregation , it should be a non habente potestatem , an act done by those who have no power .

Answ. The major proposition by your owne Doctrine , is clearely false , for you say your a a Chap. 6. Sect. 1. selfe , Strangers sojourning with us , members of other Churches , knowne not to be scandalous , are admitted to the Lords Supper ; yet can you not excommunicate strangers , sojourning for a time , falling in scandals . For ,

First , to you they are without , how then can you judge them ? as you say .

Secondly , You have by the holy Ghost no ministeriall power over them , as over your owne flocke , as you expone , Act. 20. 28.

Thirdly , You looke aside at excommunication , for those of other Churches consociated in a classe , we doe lawfully excommunicate and censure ; for excommunication is not a cutting off of a person from one single Parishionall Church onely , as you imagine , but a cutting off of a person from all the visible Churches consociated : first , because he is delivered to Satan , and his sin is bound in heaven , in relation to all the faster Churches , and is so to be esteemed , and not in reference to the one single Congregation , whereof he is a member . Secondly , all are to be humbled and mourne for his fall , and to consent he be cut off , and not one single Congregation onely . Thirdly , all consociated Churches shall be leavened , by keeping Church-fellowship with such a lumpe . Fourthly , all are to repute him as a Heathen , and a Publican . Fifthly , all are to admonish him as a Brother , 2 Thessalon . 3. 15. Sixthly , all are to forgive him , and receive him in Church-communion , if he shall repent , and occasionally to edifie him as a brother .

The Seales of righteousnesse of faith a a Manuser . ibid. 2. saith the Author ) are not seales to the faithfull as such , but as they are joyned together and consederate in some visible Church , none but in a visible Church may dispense the seales , in the O●d Testament , none were partakers either of the Passeover , or of Circumcision , unlesse they were either Israelites borne , or proselytes in the Church of Israel . We read not that Job and his friends , though righteous through faith , were circumcised , nor would they have omitted to speake of Circumcision , as of a pertinent evidence of the corruption of mans nature , of which they speake much ; the Sacraments ( saith this same Author b b lb. Sect. 6. are not given to the invisible Church , nor to the members thereof as such , but to the visible particular Churches of Christ , and to the members thereof ; therefore the seales are not to be givento those , who are of no particular visible Church ?

Answ. 1. The Seales of the Covenant are principally given to the invisible Church , as the Covenant it selfe in Gods decree of election is especially made with the elect , and such as shall never fall away , as is cleare , Jer. 31. 37. Jer. 32. 40. Esay 54 10. Heb. 8. 9. 10. and the invisible Church as such , as a number of beleevers have onely right before God to both Covenant and seales , yea and consequently are onely Christs body and Spouse , and redeemed Saints , and so onely have all the power of the keyes , and the ministeriall power of dispensing the Seales , and by our brethrens doctrine , the visible Church not as visible , but as the true body , Spouse , and Bride of Christ , & so as the invisible company of the redeemed ones have the Seales , and Covenant , and so all Ministeriall power of Christ is given unto them . 2. It is true the orderly and Ecclesiasticke way of dispensing the Seales , is that they bee dispensed onely to the visible Church , but this visible Church is not one parish , but all professing the faith of Christ , though they be not joyned in one visible parish by one Church oath , as the Author meaneth : for the Saints in Scripture , as Cornelius , the Eunuch , the Jaylor , did professe and visibly evidence their faith , and so that they were capable of the Seales by desiring to be saved , and saying , What shall we doe to be saved , by trembling at the Word of God , by asking the meaning of the Word of God , which expressions are in many not in-churched to particular Congregations , not did the Apostles aske if they were members of one parish before they baptized them , but if they beleeved in Christ . 3. Whether Job , his friends , Melchisedeck , Lot , and others the like were circumcised , we need not dispute , but that they were not circumcised , because they were not in a visible Church estate with Abraham , is a question and uncertaine , and therefore not sure to be a foundation of new opinions in Church Government ; but though it were granted , it followeth not , because none were circumeised but Abrahams seed , and all , and onely Abrahams seed were circumcised , therefore none are to be baptized but those who are members of one particular Congregation : Alas this is a weak● consequence , rather it followeth all borne of Jewes were circumcised , Ergo all borne of Christian parents are to be baptized ; and we see not but sacrificing was restricted to the visible Church , no lesse then Circumcision , yet Job sacrificed to God , Job 1. and Chap. 42.

The Author addeth The difference here is . The circumcised in Israel might rightly keepe the Passeover amongst themselves , because the whole nation of Israel made but one Church , and the officers and ministers of any one Synagogue and the Priests and Levites were ministers in ●●mmune of the whole house of Israel , in proportion whereunto they that are baptized in any particular Church may in like manner require the Lords Supper , if there be no other impediment , in regard of their unfitnesse , to examine themselves , which is a thing requisite , to receive the Lords Supper , more then was required to receive the Passeover . But now because the Churches of the new Testament are of another constitution , then the nationall Church of all Israel , baptisme in one Church doth not give a man right to the Lords Supper in another , unlesse the Officers of the one Church were Officers of all ( as in Israel they ●er● ) or unlesse that one Church and the Officers thereof did recommend their right and power to another .

Answ. 1. It is true , in the one Church of Israel there was something typicall , that is not in our Churches , as one Temple , ●●e high Priest , one place of sacrificing , one Priesthood , one A●ke , &c. but this was peculiar to Israel , as such a specifice Church , and typi●ied also the externall visible unitie of the whole visible Church of the new Testament in professing one Lord , one Faith , one Baptisme , one externall communion , and government externall , de jure : but this agreed not to the Church of Israel properly as a Church ; for as a Church of a nation they might convene and assemble themselves in one nationall Assembly to reforme Religion , to renew a nationall Covenant , to turne away a nationall judgement , to make nationall acts , that they should seeke the Lord God of Israel , and put away strange wives , Deut. 29. 2 Chron. 15. 12 , 13. Nehem. 10. and this is morall , yea naturall to a number of Churches united in one nation , and no wayes typicall . 2. The proportion betwixt Israel and a parishionall Church is questioned , the Author beggeth what is in question , for it is evident that in Gods Word there is a visible Church of many Congregations , associated in many visible acts of government . 3. If the Church of Israel and the Churches of the New Testament be of different constitutions , as Anabaptists , Arminians and Socinians teacheth , we shall try . I affirme that the Constitution in matter and forme was one with the Christian visible Church . 1. Our brethren bring arguments from the constitution of the Church of the Jewes , that for matter they were a holy people , a royall generation , for forme they were united in one Church-state Covenant-wayes , as they prove from Deut. 29. 2. Separation from sinne and the wicked world , but not from the worship of God , was commanded to them , Psal. 26. 5 , 6. Esay 52. 11. 2 Cor. 6. 7. Levit. 26. 11 , 12. Communion with the wicked was forbidden to Israel , 2 Chron. 19. 2. 2 Chron. 30. 6. but communion in worship both in the Synagogue and Temple was commanded to them . 3. That God required not morall preparation in them for eating the Passeover , as he doth in us , before wee eate the Lords Supper , I conceive to bee an untruth . 1. Because not to prophane the holy things of God , and not to take Gods Law in their mouth and to hate to be reformed , Psal. 50. 16. not to sacrifice with bloody hands , Esa. 1. 11 , 12 , &c. Psal. 50. 8 , 9 , 10. Esa 66. 1. was morall , and did bind and oblige the Jewes as they doe us , and 2 Chron. 30. 6. The postes are sent to gather the people to the Passeover , charging them to turne to the Lord God of their fathers , not to be like their fathers ; and it is cleare by Hezekiab● prayer , ver. 18 , 19. Good Lord pardon him that prepareth his heart to seeke the Lord God of his fathers , though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the Sanctuary , vers . 20. And the Lord hearkened , and healed the people . Ergo , there was required a preparation of the heart for the right eating of the Passeover , besides the typicall and ceremoniall preparation . Yea God counted the ceremoniall preparation voyd of the morall preparation , but abomination , as Esa. 66. 1. Esa. 58. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. and Josiahs Passeover is commended from this , 2 Kings 23. 22 ( as Junius well observeth ) that none did with such care and zeale , as Josiah did prepare the Pr●es●s , the people and himselfe for the passeover , in removing all Id●latry and abominati●n , and in renewing their Covenant and resoluti●n , vers . 3. To walke after the Lord , and to keepe his Commandements with all their heart , and with all their soule . 4. The uncleane and uncircumcised in heart were no more members of the true and invisible Church of the Jewes , and of Christs mysticall body , his Spouse , his royall generation , then Sodom and Gomorrah , Esa. 1 10. then the Ethiopians , Amos , 9. 7. then Ammon and Moah , J●r . 9 25 , 26. as in the New Testament , and the true invisible Church amongst them , as amongst us were Kings and Priests unto God , Exod. 19. 5. 9. Psal. 149. 1. as we are , 1 Pet. 2. 9 , 10. Rev. 1. 5. 5. Amongst them no man could invade the Priests office , or runne unsent , no more then under the New Testament , Heb. 5. 4. 1 Tim. 4. 22. though they were to rebuke one another , Levit. 19. and they had sacrifices for sins of ignorance , Levit. 4. 27. 2. The place seemeth not to want difficultie , how many sacrifices would men offer , how often , yea while they were going home from Jerusalem ( which was a long Journey to many ) they might fall in these sinnes of ignorance , and as a a Paget . Master Paget noteth there was no dispensation for this Law , yet when Abraham travelled three dayes to Mount Moriah from Beersheba in the South , and some of the Tribes Northward , would bee als farre distant , it would be seven dayes journey to many ; therefore the Text is , if be sinne 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in ignorance , or through ignorance , that is , meerely of ignorance , as when a man in drunkennesse killed a man , he shall offer a trespasse offering for it , the Jewes call it in their Language 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 timgnol , magnal , for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 megnal signifieth Pallium , if he sinned with a cloake 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 casten over his eyes , and b b Weemes ● . par. c. 14. pag. 68. Weemes said the sinnes were done of ignorance , not ignorantly , or the word in the Hebrew , is vel notificatum fuerit ei peccatum ejus , when the conscience is wakened and convinced , and he can finde no rest , let him offer sacrifices . And a third step was excommunication and casting out of the Synagogue after the captivity , which are the very degrees of our Church censure . They answer , Israel had civill c c Robinson Iustific . pag. 202 , 203. government which we have not . I answer , Deut. 17. 9. He that will not hearken to the Priest ( that standeth before the Lord to minister ) or unto the Judge , even that man shall dye . He saith not , Hee that hearkeneth not unto the People . 2. They say they could not in Israel forgive one anothers sinnes , as we doe in the New Testament .

Answ. It is a divine Law in the Old Testament , they were to forgive even their enemies , Prov. 20. 22. &c. a a Robinson 〈…〉 P. 202 , 203. Robinson saith , No Church hath the absolute promise of the Lords visible presente , which that Church then had , till the comming of Christ , Gen. 47. 10. and 17. 7. Exod. 19. 43 , 44. It was simply necessary that the Messiah should be borne in the true Church . 3. In their deepest apost asy God shewed them some signes of his presence , by raising up some godly King , Priest , or Prophet .

Answ. That they had Prerogatives above us is cleare , Rom. 3. 1 , 2 , 3. Rom. 9. 4. and that in other respects , farre more excellent , wee have Prerogatives above them , is as cleare , 2 Cer. 3. 7 , 8 , 9. Matth. 13. 16 , 17. So one Christian Church have Prerogatives above another , but the essentiall constitution of the Church of the Jewes , and ours is one . 1. They were a ro●a●d Priest-hood , a People holy to the Lord , the Covenant made with them , as with us . 2. To them one little Leaven , leavened the whole lumpe . 3. Separation from sinne and Idolatrous worship was commanded them , as it is us . 4. Amongst them , none who hated to be reformed , were to take the Law of God in their mouth . But to returne to our Author , it is a false ground that one that is Baptized in one Church , hath not right to the Lords Supper in all Churches , for if he be Baptized to Christs death , he is Baptized to all Churches . And 2. professedly in Covenant with God in all Churches , and so hath right to the seales of the Covenant in all Churches , for Gods Covenant is not principally and first made with a Parishionall Congregation , but with the Catholike and universall Church comming under the name of Israel and Iudah ; and secondarily with a Parishionall Congregation . Is a beleever a member of Christs body in one Congregation and not in all Congregations ? Hath he the keyes as a member of Christs body , and a dwelling house for the holy Spirit in one Congregation , and loseth them and the holy Spirit both when he goeth to another Congregation ?

Manuscript , Those who come from England to us are under publike Manus●●● . ibid. scandals and reproach . It is an offence that they come to us , as members of no particular Church visible , ( for they leave that relatiin where they left their habitation ) but of one Nationall Church , whereof Christ hath given us no patterne in the New Testament , and in 〈◊〉 he hath appointed no Nationall worship to be performed .

Answ. It is admirable that leaving a Parishionall Church in England , they leave not the true visible Church , so all the Parishionall Churches in England must be separated from , as ●●om no Churches ; yet in that Church , many of you had your Baptisme , your conversion to Christ , your calling to the Mini●e●● . 2. How can it be an offence to be Members of no independent Churches in England , whereas no such may be had there ? 3. Is it a fault to be members of a Nationall Church ? see if Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 15. there be not a Church-meeting , and publike exercise of praying , discussing of matters by the Word , choosing of officers , refuting of false Doctrine ? This is worship , and it is not the worship of a particular Church , but there be no true Churches but yours , and all are in offences and scandalls , who are not members of your Churches ; this a a August lib. 2. c. 5 , 6 , 7. vos ergo , qua●e sacreliga separatione pacis vin●ulum d●s●●●●pitis ? Augustine layeth to Donatists , this b b Pareus com . in Matth. 18. Pareus layeth upon Au●baptists , that they taught , they onely were the true Church . I conceive our deare Brethren are not of this mind .

Manuscript , It is a publike offence , that though they were Baptized in some Parish Church in England ( saith the Author ) upon som● Covenant and stipulation of Parents , or God-fathers , which also was without warrant , yet they come to the Lords Table , without any publike profession of their faith or repentance ?

Answ. To say nothing of God-fathers , who are civill witnesses , that the Parents shall take care to educate the childe , in the true Faith , we see no publike profession by a Church-oath , ( as you meane ) in the Church of Corinth , but onely that every man was to trye himselfe , and then to eate , nor in the Apostles Church at all , if you debarre them from the Lords Supper , who are not inchurched by your Oath , all the reformed Churches on Earth did never worthily eate and drinke the Lords body and blood . It is ( saith he ) a publike offence , that in the Parish Manuscr . Communion ( which not Communion of spirits , but cohabitation begetteth ) they partake with all ignorant and scandalous persons , not excluding drunkards , prophane swearers , whereby it commeth to passe that not a little leavin , but a great measure of leavin doth deepely leavin the whole lumpe .

Answ. This tolleration of drunkards and swearers in the Lords Church , and at his Table , infecteth and is apt to leavin all , with their evill conversation , but doth not leavin the worship to the fellow-worshippers , nor is the sinne of private persons , yea nor of our Ministers , who hath not power to helpe it , ( but it is the fault of the Church ) except you make no separation from a Church where a scandalous person is tolerated ( for suffering moe or sewer doth not vary the spece ) to be a sin publickely to be repented , before any can be members of your Church , which is prodigious to us .

Fourthly , It is a publicke offence ( saith the Authour ) that they have worshipped God , according to the precepts of men , &c.

Answ. This is the crime of conformity which I wish were publickely repented , by all which hath defiled themselves with submitting to a Antichristian government , and the Will-worship of men , yet doth not this make Ministers no Ministers , so as they must receive Ordination to the Ministery of new . Peters fall took not away his Apostleship , nor Jonah● flying from God , nor Davids adultery made them not leave off to be Prophets .

Other arguments that I find in Papers from New England are these : First , There is not a Church ( say they ) under the New Testament , but a Congregationall Church , so it will follow , that as City priviledges belong onely to the Citizens and their children , so baptisme and the Lords Supper , being Church priviledges , belong onely to the Members of particular Churches , and their seed ; and that seeing sigillum sequitur donum , to apply them to any other , is to abuse them . As the scale of an Incorporation is abused , when it is added to confirme a gift to one who is not a Free man of that Incorporation , he being incapable thereof .

Answ. First , The case is not here , as in earthly Cities , a man who is a free Citizen in one burrough is not for that a free Citizen of all the Burroughes and Cities on earth ; nor is he who is civilly excommunicated and cast out of his City priviledges in one City , cast out of his City priviledges in all other Cities , whereof he is a free member : and the reason is , there is not one common owner , and Lord of all the Cities on earth , who can give , or take away , in a Law-way , City priviledges ; but the case is farre otherwayes in the priviledges of visible Churches , for he who is a member of one visible Congregation , is by his baptisme , and sincere profession , and his professed standing in Covenant with God , a Member of all visible Congregations on earth , as he is baptized in all Congregations on earth ; and if he be excommunicated out of a single Congregation , he is excommunicated out of all , and loseth right to the Scale of the Lords Supper , in all visible Congregations , as his sinnes are bound in heaven to all also , for that one common head and Saviour , who giveth him right to the Seales of Christs body and blood in one , giveth him right to these Seales in all . For we worthily communicate with Christ in his body and blood , 〈◊〉 his body was broken , and his blood shed for one single visible Congregation , but as broken and shed for the whole 〈…〉 universall . But this forme of reasoning utterly abolisheth all Communion of Churches , nor can a member of one Noble Church be capable of the Seales of grace in another visible Church , because he is not a Member of that visible Church , no more then one is capable of the Priviledges of Paris , who is onely a Citizen of London , and not a Citizen of Paris . If it be said , one who is a member of a visible Church , may receive the Seales in another Congregation , if he be recommended by Letters , as a sound Professor , to that other Congregation . I Answer , Recommendatory Letters can never give a Church-right to the Church-Priviledges of the Seales of the Covenant , they doe but onely notifie , manifest , and declare the Church-right , which the man had before . Ergo , either he cannot in any sort be capable of the Seales of the Covenant in another Congregation , then his owne , whereof he is an inchurched Member , which destroyeth all communion of sister Churches , or if he be capable of the Seales in another Congregation , he was capable and h●d a Church-right , in himselfe , before he received reconime●●a●ory Letters : yea , these whom we recommend by Letters as ●it to partake of the Sacraments in another Congregation , ●● presuppose they have Church-right to the Seales in another Congregation visible , then in their owne , whereof they are members ; except our testimony be false . Ergo , before our recommendatory Letters , the person of approved piety was a member of all the visible Churches about , hoc ipso , and by that same reason , that he is a member of one visible Congregation ; yea Peter clearely insinuateth that all who have received the Holy Ghost , are to be baptized , Act. 8. 47. as Philip , Act. 8. 37. and That if the Eunuch beleeved , be might be baptized . So that Faith , to speake properly , doth give us right to the Seales , and to speake accurately , a visible profession of faith doth not give a man right to the seales of grace , but onely it doth notifie and declare to the Church , that the man hath right to the seales because he beleeveth , and that the Church may lawfully give to him the seales , and that profession is a condition required in the right receivers of the seales in an Ecclesiasticall way ; but faith giveth the right to these seales , and because the faith of the beleever goeth with the beleever , when he goeth to another visible congregation then his owne , that faith giveth him right to the seales in all places , and in all Congregations : for faith giveth right to receive Christ Sacramentally , not in one Congregation onely , but in all , and a visible profession doth , as a condition notifie this faith , and Church-right in all Congregations . Ergo , the man hath right in all Congregations , as he hath right in a parishionall Church . But our Brethren reply , Peter might baptize Cornelius , though he was no member of a visible Congregation , because the Apostles being ●fficers in al Churches , might dispense the Seales in all Churches : but Ministers now are pastors onely of the determina●e flocke , over which the holy Ghost hath set them , therefore they have not Citie Seales at their power to dispense to any other then to Citizens .

Answ. Peter his argument to Baptize is not from a temporall reason , that endureth for a while , but from a morall argument of perpetuall equitie and necessitie , till Christs second comming . He that beleeveth and hath received the holy Ghost is to be baptized . But many out of Church-state , and who are not members of a particular Congregation , have received the Holy Ghost , and doe beleeve , being Christians of approved pietie ; we are to adde no restrictions , or exceptions where God addeth none . Non est distinguendum , ubi lex non distinguit . They that beleeve should receive the seales , but not except they be in-Churched and members of a particular Congregation . The proposition is Gods Word , but the restriction or exception is not Gods Word . 2. The Apostles , though they were universall Pastors of the world , yet teach us by word and practise , who are to be admitted to the seales , even to the supper , those who do try and examine themselves , and that to the end of the world .

2. Our brethren say , It is probable that Cornelius was in Church-state , and the Eunuch comming to Jerusalem to worship , argueth he was a proselyte , and a member of the Jewish Church not yet dissolved ; Lydia and the jaylor were members of the Church of Philippi , which Church communicated with Paul at the beginning of the Gospel , Psal. 4. 15. at least it is probable , that Lidia was a member of the Church of the Jewes .

Answ. It is hard to build a new Church government contrary to the doctrine of the reformed Churches upon probabilities . 2. If Cornelius , Lydia and others were members of the Jewish Church , it was not a good consequence by our brethrens doctrine to make them members of a Christian Congregation , without in-churching of them by your Church-oath , for you make the constitution of the Jewish Church , and ours different ; yea and as you teach , all circumcised were members of the Jewish Church , and had right to their Passeover , but all circumcised are not meet to bee members of a Christian Church , for many circumcised were Idolaters , murtherers , prophane mo●ke●s of God , Esay 1. 13 , 14 , 15 , 16. Jer. 10. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. Ezek , 10. 6. 17. 18 , 9. And though the Church of Philippi was one of the 〈◊〉 Church 〈◊〉 communicated with Paul , yet was there no Christian Church of Elders and people there , when Lydia was converted , for Acts 16. 13. in the place where prayer was wont to be made on the Sabbath day , none heard Paul preach , but some women , Ergo there could not be a Christian Church there ; and it is certaine the jaylor before was a persecutor , and no member of a Christian Church .

They say Abraham and his seede were not circumcised , till God called him into Church-Covenant , and so into Church-state , and there is the same reason and use of baptisme , as of circumcision . If the argument taken for baptizing of infants be good , why may we not inserre a necessitie of Church-membership , before baptisme , as of Church membership before circumcision ? So the Apologie saith . It cannot be proved that Apologie cap. 11. baptisme was imposed upon all beleevers , as such , no more then it can be proved that circumcision was imposed upon all beleevers as such ; and Baptisme is no more now necessary to a beleever , whose calling or another strong hand of Gods providence will not suffer to live in Church fellowship with Gods people , then circumcision was necessary to Melchisede●k , Job or others , whom the hand of God detained from Church-fellowship , with the posteritie of Abraham ; yea circumcision and the Passeover , seeing they were administrated in private houses , might more conveniently be administrated to persons not in Church-state , nor Baptisme and the Lords Supper can be administrated so , in respect they are seales given to a Church body in an assembly , 1 Cor. 10. 17. and 12. 13.

Answ. Abraham , Sarah , and the Soules they had gotten in Charran , were in Church-state , obeyed God , built an Altar Gen. 12. 2 , 3 , 4. before the Church Covenant , which you speake of , Chap. 17. and it is denyed that that supposed oath of the Covenant made them a Church : So we see no necessitie of Church-membership , to one single Congregation , before either circumcision or baptisme ; for baptisme is a seale of our entry into the visible Church , as I shall prove . 2. We say not that baptisme is imposed on all who beleeveth , as they are such , for God saveth divers beleevers , who are not baptized , but Gods will , the supreme I aw-giver , here is to be looked into , God would have no circumcision from Adam to Abraham , and would himselfe have the people want circumcision in the Wildernesse fortie yeares , and would have it administrated in private houses , it being a bloody and painefull Sacrament , but we have an expresse Commandement of God to baptize all ordinarily of the visible Church ; yet not because they are members of one single Congregation , but because they beleeve & testifie themselves to be members of the visible Church in generall : we deny that the want of membership in a particular Congregation , is that strong band that should hinder baptisme or the seales of the Covenant . God hath appointed no lawfull calling , such as traffiquing by Seas & ●equent travelling ordinary to transient members of the visible Church , to be inconsistent with the lawfull partaking of the ordinances of grace , & seales of the Covenant ; for only those who doe not try and examine themselves , and are prophanely scandalous are excluded , as swine , from the holy things of God , and from the Lords Supper , not men , because they are necessarily busied in a lawfull calling , and must ordinarily travell to farre countries , and so cannot be members of a single parish . 1. This is a physicall impediment and not a sinne , nor a morall impediment , excluding any from the Seales of grace , yea and an unwritten tradition . 2. I speake against that difference which the author maketh , betwixt the seales of grace in the Old Testament , and the seales of grace in the New Testament , for there were Physicall and civill defects in the Old Testament , which by a divine Law , made some incapable of the Passeover , as if any were Lepers , bastards , borne Moabites and Ammonites , or typically uncleane , or had touched the dead , they could not eate the Passeover , though otherwise they did beleeve in Christ to come , and were morally cleane , but by the contrary under the New Testament , there be no Physicall or ceremoniall defects , no callings , no civill relations , but onely morall defects , and sinfull scandals , which doth exclude men from the Seales of grace , except you bring in ceremonies in the New Testament , of your owne devising , for all Nations , so they beleeve in Christ , Jew , or Gentile , Barbarian , or Scythian , bond or free , male or female , are to be baptized , Matth. 28. 19. God is no accepter of 〈◊〉 , or Nations , or callings , Act. 10. 34 , 35. compare this with ver. 46 , 47. and Gal. 3. 27. For as many of you as have beene baptized unto Christ , have put on Christ , v. 28. There is neither Iew nor G●●ek there is neither bond nor free , there is neither male nor female , for 〈◊〉 all me in Christ Jesus , so Gal. 6. 15. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision● waileth any thing , nor uncircumcision , but a new creature .

I must then say , it is boldnesse in men to say , that there is a lawfull calling in the New Testament , which our Brethren are pleased to call the strong hand of God , which maketh persons who are new creatures , and baptized unto Christ , uncapable of the seales of grace . Deare Brethren , yeeld to the cleare and evident truth of God . And for this cause , the seales of the New Testament must be more necessary in this respect , then were the Seales in the Old Testament . Our Brethren say , All circumcised might eate the Passeover ( though I doubt much of it ) and might enter into the Temple , if they were not legally uncleane , but all baptized may not ca●e the Lords Supper ; and all baptized , though excommunicated , may enter into the congregation for the publicke worship , hearing the word , praying , praising , &c. But all circumcised , might not enter into the congregation . The places 1 Cor. 10. 17. and 12. 13. prove not , that the Seales of grace are administrated to a Church body , of a particular congregation only , as they are such ; for these seales are common to all the visible Churches on earth . We many are one body , it is not to be exponed , We many are of one Parishionall Congregation , and onely are one body ; but We many of all the visible Churches on Earth , are one body in Christ . This you must say , except you deny all visible communion of sister Churches .

The Object . They who are not capable of Church censures , are not capable of Church Priviledges . But those that are not within the Church covenant of a particular congregation , are not capable of Church censure . The proposition being evident , the assumption is proved , 1 Cor. 5. 12. What have I to doe to judge those who are without , that is , without the communion of a particular congregation , So Amesius , de consc . l. 4. c. 24. quest. 1. resp. ad .

Answ. First , I answered before , the major is false , by your owne doctrine , those of another Congregation cannot be censured , but by their owne congregation , yet by Letters of recommendation , they may receive the Lords Supper in another Congregation . Also strangers of approved piety , may be capable of Church rebukes , which are Church censures .

Secondly , The place , 1 Cor. 5. 12. is manifestly abused , for by those who are without , are meant onely the Insidels and Heathens who are without the whole visible Church , and not those of approved piety , who are baptized and professe the truth sincerely : for Peter Martyr , Beza , Calvin , Marlorat , Pareus , Zwinglius , so also Haymo , Aquinas , expone it with us ; which is cleare , first , by the phrase of speaking ( What have I to doe ? ) being a note of estrangement , as , Joh. 2. 4. Woman what have I to doe with thee ? and 2 Sam. 16. 10. David said , What have I to doe with you , ye sonnes of Zerviah ? now Paul and the faithfull at Corinth are not estranged from those of approved piety of other Congregations , he tooke care to edifie and rebuke them , and so are all the Saints to edifie , censure , and rebuke one another . Morton Ap●log . part 1 ● . 477. 478. f●r is sunt generaliter omnes , qui non dederunt sua nomina Christo : Aug , tom . 1 , ser● . 6 , non tollo idola Ethnicorun , quia non habe● in illos potestatem habe● autem cum fuerin● facti Christiani :

Thirdly , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , alwayes those who are without , are taken in an ill part , in the Word of God , as Mark. 4. 11. Those who are without , are the blinded and hardned , and Rev. 22. 15. for without are dogges , our Brethren expone it of the visible Church . Now not to be in Membership of such a particular congregation , is not a sin , nor a just ground of Pauls estrangement of his Ministeriall power from them , it may be caused by persecution when the flocke are scattered by Wolves .

Fourthly , Those who are here without , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , are left by Paul to the immediate judgement of God , and not to be judged of the Church , ver . 13. But them that are without God judgeth . Now those who are members of another congregation then the Church of Corinth , or members of no particular congregation , and yet of approved piety , are not left to the immediate judgement of God , because they are without . The banished servants of God , who suffer for the Truth , or transient members , who because their calling is ordinarily traffiquing , and so not consistent with a membership in a setled congregation , are they ( I say ) without , not to be edified by the censures of the Church , but left to the immediate judgement of God ? this is contrary to Gods Word , and an insolent interpretation , and I find i● not in your place of Amesius .

They reason from inconveniencies , Hence ( say they ) Church Apol. ch. 5. assemblies shall be confused meetings , if all out of Church membership ●e admitted .

Answ. If by confused meetings you meane , meetings of sound beleevers and hypocrites , then Christs Kingdome compared to a draw-net , wherein are good and bad , are confused meetings and unlawfull ; which none can say but Anabaptists . But if you meane meetings of these of your owne Congregation and strangers of approved piety , these are not confused meetings , but you begge what is in question , and utterly abolish all Communion of Churches .

They adde , the Church shall endanger the propbaning of the Seales , and want a speciall meanes whereby their grace and piety shall be dis●erned , Apology . if without respect of their Church estate , men be admitted to the seales ; for their owne testimony is not enough : also how can they be of approved piety , who against light refuse to professe subjection to the Gospell , by an orderly joyning themselves with some approved Church when they have opportunity ? seeing Church-fellowship is an action of piety required in the second Commandement , and this meane of tryall hath beene so blessed that many approved men have beene after tryall found light to others , and to their owne consciences .

Answ. Meanes of discovering sincerity or hypocrisie would be warranted by Gods word , and meanes of eschewing the prophaning of the Seales also . Simon Magus was not so tryed , yea when Peter found him in the gall of bitternesse , we finde not that he cast him out of the visible Church in respect his sinne was not that publikely scandalous , as to offend the whole Church . 2. We grant that strangers are not rashly to be admitted to the Seales , but you prove them not to be of approved piety , because they will not sweare your Church-oath , and your discipline , as the onely true way , and in so doing , you say they refuse Church-fellowship commanded in the second Commandement ; but this is to be proved , and not to be nakedly averred by you ; they beleeve , and can give evidences of their beliefe , & so should by the word of God be admitted to the Seales . Act. 10. 47. Act. 8. 37. Act. 16. 14 , 15. ver. 31 , 32 , 33. 1 Cor. 11. 38. you deny them the Seales , as i● they were dogges and unworthy prophaners of the Seales onely , because they cannot sweare to your Church-government , which you cannot prove from the word of God . 3. You deny them to be of approved piety who will not joyne to an approved Church , you meane your owne onely . But you adde if they have opportunity , but what if they want opportunity , then the strong hand of God deharreth them , & their seed from the Seales of Grace ; now if any be to traffique by Seas , and to travell to farre Countries in a lawfull calling , he is legally uncleane and incapable of the Seales to himselfe or his seede ; for he cannot in Conscience and through necessity of his lawfull calling sweare your Church-oath , for he must sweare to observe the manners of his fellow-members , to edifie them by exhortation , consolation , rebuking , to joyne himselfe in an eternall Covenant to that visible Church , yea never to remove thence , except the Congregation consent : so your oath obligeth him to all these , now this is impossible because of his lawfull calling , and because he cannot be a Church-member for ever : while he traffiqueth in his lawfull calling , the comfort of the Lords supper is denyed to him , and Baptisme to all his seede , and that by a strong hand of providence without any fault in him : shew us a warrant from the Law and the Testimony , where any are to be debarred from the Seales of the Covenant , and that ordinarily , ( where sicknesse and some other Physicall impediments doth not occurre ) where there is no morall unworthinesse or guiltinesse in the persons debarred : Will you debarre all from Church-comforts , the presence of Christ in his Church , the comfort of his walking , beside the Candlestickes , and his influence in the word Preached , the power of the keyes , the rebukes of the Saints , their exhortation and private comforting of sinners , the comforts of the Ordinances of Baptisme , and the supper of the Lord , because a strong hand of providence in a lawfull calling doth perpetually debarre them ? 4. You say your trying of Church-members is a meane blessed of God , to try many mens sincerity .

I answer , Unlawfull meanes , as the persecution of Tyrants , may have this successe , what then ? is it a lawfull meane ? 2. I would Gods name were here spared ; it is not a meane blessed of God , it chaseth away many from the net of the Gospell , and the Pastorall care of the Shepheards , and is not a conquering way to gaine Soules .

John Alasto ( say they ) in the dayes of Edward the sixth , would Apol. 7. bapize none , but such as were members of that Church : and therefore p●●paned this question to the Fathers , ( Are these infants that you 〈◊〉 , the seede of this our Church , that they may lawfully be Baplized ? )

Answ. John Alasto had reason because of some present abuse , some indifferent Atheists , infidels in heart , refused to joyne to either Churches , either Protestant or Papists , and sought Baptismeto their children in either Churches , as they might have it , and therefore was that question proponed to the Fathers , but it proveth not your point . Alasto excluded the Children of Atheists , who would joyne to no Church , as his words cited beare . Ergo approved Christians and their seede are to be excluded from the Seales of the Covenant . How weake is your reasoning ?

If the Rechabites ( say they ) the Posterity of Jethro , shall live in the ●idst of the Common-wealth of Israel , & some of them prove true beleeters , as Jonadab the sonne of Rechab . yet if they shall refuse to take bold of the Covenant of Israel , & to become Pr●selytes , it is no sinne for Israel to withold the Passeover from them , & circumcision from their Children ?

Answ. You might have proved your point a nearer way , many legally uncleane , and yet sound beleevers , because of leprosie , for no sinne were debarred from the Seales amongst the Jewes : but have you any law to debarre any from the Seales of the Covenant of grace under the New Testament , and that ordinarily for no sinne ? 2. a a Calvin comment . in Jer. 35. 1 , 2 , 3 4. Calvin thinketh their Vow not lawfull . b b Bucan . l●● . com . dis. 45. ● . 13. Bucanus , c c Polyander in synop . pu●io . Theol. profess . Leyd . dis. 38 thes. 3. Polyander , and d d Willet synop . Papis●ni . 19 gener . controv . 8. Willet think it the lawfull Vow of the Nazarites , commanded Numb . 6. What then ? If by Gods Law of the Nazarites , they abstained from wine , and the Passeover ? God is above his owne Law , Ergo , you may debarre men from the Seales under the New Testament for no sinne ; it doth not follow . 3. How prove yee , they abstained from the Passeover ? being so divine a Law , might not their Vow suffer an exception for a greater Law in eating the Passeover ? I thinke it might , for in case of necessity they came and dwelt at Jerusalem , for feare of the Army of the Chaldeans , Jer. 35. 11. and yet their vow was to dwell in Tents . From these ariseth ,

Quest. I. If Pastors may performe Ministeriall Acts in any other Congregation than their owne .

This is answered unto , by a Manuscript , If you take a Ministeriall act improperly , when a Minister doth exercise his gift of praying and preaching , being required so to doe , so hee may exercise some Ministeriall acts , but this he doth not by vertue of any calling , but only by his gifts and occasionally : but if you meane by a Ministeriall act , an act of authority and power in dispensing of Gods Ordinances , as a Minister doth performe to the Church whereunto he is called to be a Minister , then we deny that he can so performe any Ministeriall act , to any other Church , than his owne .

Hence though he may preach to another congregation , yet may he not administer the Sacraments to an other then to his owne .

Answ. First , We hold that by a calling or ordination he is made a Pastor , by election he is restricted to be Ordinarily the Pastor of his flocke .

Secondly , A Pastor is a Pastor of the Catholike Church , but he is not a Catholike Pastor of the Catholike Church , as were the Apostles .

Thirdly , The Reformed Churches may send Pastors to the Acosta d● saint . 〈◊〉 , l. 5. c. 17. Indians , for that which Acosta saith of Jesuites , wee may with better reason say it of our selves : That Pasiors are as Souldiers , and some souldiers are to keepe order , and remaine in a certaine place , others run up and don ne in all places ; So some are affixed to a Congregation , to feed them , others may be sent to those people , who have not heard of the Gospel . Which sending is ordinary and lawfull , in respect of Pastors sending , and the Pastors who are sent , because in Pastors , even after the Apostles be dead , there remaineth a generall Pastorall care for all the Churches of Christ . Thus sending is not ordinary , but extraordinary , in respect of those to whom the Pastors are sent , yet is it a Pastorall sending .

This opinion of our Prethren , is against the care of Christ , who hath left no Pastorall care on earth by this way , now since the Apostles dyed , to spread the Gospell to those Nations who have not heard of the name of Christ ; but a Pastorall care for the Churches , is not proper to Apostles onely , but onely such a Pastorall care by speciall direction from Christ immediately to Preach to all . 2. Backed with the gift of tongues and of miracles ; and this essentially differenceth the Apostle from the ordinary Pastor ; but the former Pastorall care to Preach the Gospell to all Nations , and to convert , is common both to the Apostle and Pastor .

2. Our Brethren distinguish betwixt office and the calling , and they say that the office extendeth no further then the call , and by 〈◊〉 he is onely a Pastor of this determinate flocke . But if he be a Pastor essentially in relation to none , but to his owne Congregation from which he hath all his calling , as is supposed , by that same reason a Christian , is a Baptized Christian to none but in relation to that particular Church in whose society he is admitted , and he doth partake of Christs body and blood in the Lords Supper in relation to no visible professors on earth , but onely to the Parish Church whereof he is a Member , 1 Cor. 10. 17. for they expone that onely of a Parishionall Communion within one single independant Congregation . And he must be a Heathen , or as a Pagan in all Congregations on earth , but in his owne , yea and he is a visible professor of the Covenant of grace , which is one in substance , ( as they say ) with the Church-Covenant , and hath claime to Christ and all his Ordinances in no Congregation save in his owne . I prove the consequence , for by Baptisme the Baptized person is incorporated in Christs visible Church . 1 Cor. 12. 13. If this be true when one removeth from one Congregation to another , hee must bee re-baptized and incorporated a visible member of a body visible with them . And I see not how one can be in-churched to another Congregation , and made one body therewith , while he eate of one bread with them , as they expone , 1 Cor. 10. 17. if he be not also a member of all visible Churches on earth .

3. If a Pastor can exercise no Pastorall acts toward any Congregation , save toward his owne , then a Pastor as a Pastor cannot pray for the whole visible Churches of God : but the latter is absurd : Ergo , so is the former . I prove the major , The praying for the whole visible Churches is a Pastorall Act , due to a Pastor as a Pastor . 1. Because every visible Church is oblieged as it is a Church to pray for all the visible Churches on earth : for as a Christian is oblieged to pray for all Churches visible ; so farre more is a Church : now a visible Church doth not pray but by the Pastor , who is the mouth of the People to God ; and that this is a Pastorall duty due to a Pastor , I thinke is said Isa. 62. 6. I have set watchmen on thy Tower , O Jerusalem , which shall never hold their peace day nor night . Yee that make mention of the Lord , keepe no silence till he establish , and t●ll ●● make Jerusalem the praise of the whole earth . Also Pastors as Pastors are to pray for the King , though the King be no member of that Congregation , whereof they be Pastors . 1 Tim. 2. 1 , 2. every Pastor as a Pastor is to Preach against the sinnes of the Land , else how can the People mourne for these sinnes ? Ergo , the Pastor doth exercise Pastorall acts upon all the visible Churches on earth , upon the King , and upon the whole Land , to which he is not a Pastor by speciall election .

4. If a Pastor be oblieged to Preach in season and out of season , and that as a Pastor , and because he is a Pastor . 2 Tim. 4. 2. Ergo he is to Preach as a Pastor in any Congregation where he shall be desired .

They answer , He may Preach the word in another Congregation , not by vertue of a calling or office , but by vertue of his gifts .

I answer , First , if he Preach by vertue of a gift onely , he Preacheth in that case , not as sent of God , and so int●udeth himselfe , and runneth unsent , and a meere gift to be a King or a Magistrate , maketh not a Magistrate , as a a Master Robinson just if . of separ . pag. 290. Master Robinson granteth . Ergo one cannot warrantably exercise a Pastorall act by vertue of a meere gift . 2. He may in another Congregation preach with Pastorall authority , and use the keyes by binding and loosing sinnes , according as hearers doe repent and harden their nockes against the Gospell . Ergo , he may preach as a Pastor to another Congregation . 3. There shall be no Communion betwixt Sister Churches in Pastorall acts as Pastorall , which is absurd , the Communion shall onely be of Pastorall acts as Christian acts , but in no sort betwixt them as Pastorall acts .

5. The Scriptures for this opinion are weak , Ergo the opinion it selfe is weake , I prove the antecedent . Act. 20. 28. feede the flocke , over which the holy Ghost hath made you overseers . &c. there is no ground to feede even by Preaching , or by vertue of a gift , these flockes over which the holy Ghost hath not set you : Obey them that are over you in the Lord , Heb. 13. 17. & c. there is no warrant to submit to other Pastors that are not over you in the Lord , though they command by vertue of a gift , not by vertue of an office or calling : these be loose consequences .

6. All reciprocation of mutuall duties amongst sister Churches , whereby they exhort , rebuke , comfort one another , must be unlawfull , for these be Church acts , and this Author saith , The office extendeth no further then the calling , but there is no calling of Church-membership betwixt sister-Churches , and therefore all these duties are not acts of the Communion of Churches , as they are such Churches or incorporations in a Church-state , but onely duties of Churches as they are Saints , but communion of Churches as Churches in the act of Church-dispensing of the Word and Seales reciprocally one to another , is not in the Word of God , as this opinion will inferre , which is a weighty absurd .

7. The Authors of this opinion hold , That if the Congregation , for no fault , reject the Pastor , whom they once called and elected Answer to quest 25 of old England . to ●e their Pastor , though in so doing they sinne , and reject God in rejecting him , yet they take nomen & esse , the name and nature of a pastor from him , yet ( say they ) hee still remaineth a Minister of Christ , till he accept a call from another Congregation .

Hence 1. such a one is a Pastor , and yet the people have taken If the Congregation take name & nature from any called Pastor , and that without any all deserving in him , their censure worketh clave er●ante , et ex opere operato ; the Lord must make valid in heaven , an unjust censure inflicted by his Church on Earth . name and nature of a Pastor from him , as they gave him name and nature : Ergo , he is either a Pastor without a calling , which is absurd , or he remaineth a person in relation to another flocke , who never choosed him , nor gave him any calling . 2. To adde by the way , if he be capable of a calling to another Church , Ergo , for the time he is no Minister , else they must say , he may be a Minister capable of two callings , to two sundry Ministeries , which yet maketh him a Pastor not in relation to one single congregation onely .

It is true , they object that the Apostles , Matth. 18. were commanded to preach to all Nations , but Pastors are not so now , but are commanded to feed the flocke over which God hath appointed them , Act. 20. 28. but it is as true the Apostles were commanded to preach to all Nations , in opposition to the charge that the Prophets of old were to speake to the people of Israel onely , and the Apostles Matth. 10. forbidden to preach to the Samaritans and Gentiles ; and it is as true that Gods Spirit limited the Apostles to Preach to Macedonia , not to Bithynia ; now because this particular direction for places is wanting in the Church , it is certaine that a man is yet a Pastor in office in relation to as many as Gods hand of providence shall send him unto , though he be chosen by a people to feed ordinarily one determinate flocke , and though he be not an extraordinary and immediatly inspired planter of Churches , or the first planter , as were the Apostles , yet is he a Pastor in relation to all . And if this be not said , 1. It were simply unlawfull for Pastors now to plant Churches , and spread the Gospell to those nations , who have not heard it , because all Pastors now are ordinary , and none are immediatly inspired Apostles : but it is certaine what the Apostles did , by an extraordinary gift , as such immediatly called pastors , it is unlawfull for ordinary Pastors to attempt to doe , as to attempt to speake with tongues , and to plant Churches by speaking with tongues and confirming it with miracles , is unlawfull . Papists , as Bellarmine , Suarez , Acosta , ascribe this to the Pope and his Apostles . Our Divines answer that the Apostles that way have no successors ; But what the Apostles did by an ordinary pastorall gift , as to preach the word , administrate the Sacraments , to erect and plant Churches by ordinary gifts , where the Pastors can speake to the Churches by an ordinary gift in their owne language , they are oblieged both within and without the Congregation , to preach as Pastors , because where God giveth gifts pastorall to pastors , he commandeth them to exercise these gifts , else they digge their Lords talent in the earth : but God giveth to Pastors pastorall gifts to preach to others then their owne Congregation , and to administrate the seales to them also , and to plant Churches . Ergo , it is presumed that the Church doth give authoritie and an externall ministeriall calling to the exercise of these gifts . 2. It is an unwarrantable point of Divinitie that the Apostles and the Pastors succeeding to them doe differ essentially in this , that Apostles might preach as Pastors to more Congregations then one , and might plant Churches , but pastors succeeding to them may not as Pastors preach to more Congregations then their owne , and may not plan● Churches , for then planting of Churches now were utterly unlawfull , because it is certaine there be no Apostles on earth , and it is not lawfull for a Pastor , yea nor it is lawfull for any other gifted person to doe that which is essentiall to an Apostle and agreeth to an Apostle as to an Apostle . It is then unlawfull for our brethren , seeing they be not Apostles , to plant Churches in India .

Nor is that comparison to be regarded much ; A Magistrate or an Alderman of a Citie may not lawfully exercise his office of Magistracie in another Citie whereof he is not a Maior , and therefore a Pastor cannot preach , ex officio , as a Pastor in another Congregation , whereof he is not a Pastor , nor can he exercise discipline in another Congregation then his owne , seeing another Congregation hath not by voluntary agreement , oath or paction submitted themselves to his ministry , nor chosen him for their Pastor .

For I answer , the comparison halteth and doth not prove the point , for by one and the same act the citie hath chosen such a man both for to be a Magistrate , and to be their Magistrate , and have given him thereby authority over themselves onely , so he cannot exercise the office of a Magistrate over another Citie who hath not chosen him to be their Maior or ruler . But the flocke doth not both call such a man , in one and the same act to be a pastor , and to be their pastor , but hee is made by the laying on of the hands of the Elders , a Pastor , and a Pastor in relation to all to whom God in his providence shall send him to speake , the Congregation by election doth give him no authority pastorall , but onely appropriate his pastorall authoritie to themselves in particular ; and when they refuse him againe and cast him off , they take not pastorall authoritie from him , for they cannot take away that which they cannot give ; he remaineth a Pastor though they cast him off , as a Colledge of Physitians do promote a man to be a Doctor of Physicke to cure diseases , a towne calleth him to be their Physitian , he may yet exercise acts of his calling , and ex officio , as a Doctor , upon other cities and inhabitants of the countrey ; and when the city who choosed him for their physitian doth cast him off , they take not from him the office of doctorship which the Colledge of Physitians conferred upon him , for they cannot take from him that which they cannot give to him . Yea if any of another flocke shall come and heare the word , the Pastor offereth all in one pastorall sacrifice to God in prayer , though there be many of another Congregation in the Church hearing ; yea strangers beleevers communicate with him at the same Table , yet is he not their Pastor . If a Pastor of a Congregation die or be sicke , shall the children of beleevers , yea shall converted Pagans being desirous to be baptized be defrauded of the comfort of Baptisme , and of the Lords Supper , for no fault in them , but onely because their Pastor is dead , may not the Congregation by their desires and requests appropriate the office of Pastors of another Congregation in some particular acts to their necessitie ? yea is not their receiving of his ministry in that act ( when their Pastor is dead ) a calling warranting him to officiate , hie & nunc ? even as the desires and choise of his owne flocke electing him to be their constant Pastor , gave him a calling to be their Pastor constantly , and in all the ordinary acts of his calling ? yea and it is sure as the holy Ghost set him over his owne floeke in ordinary , because they choosed him to be their Pastor , so that same holy Ghost set him over this other Congregation , in this act , to preach and administrate the sacraments to them , in this exigence of the death of their Pastor ; for God who ruleth officers and disposeth of them in his house , disposeth of particular Acts of his owne officers , and he is sent as a pastor from God to speake to the stanger hic & nunc , and to worke his heart to the love of Christ , and that as a Pastor no lesse then to his owne flocke , except we destroy communion of gifts , and of Pastorall gifts , Paul by the holy Ghost was made the Apostle of the Gentiles , Peter of the Jewes , Gal. 2. 8. yet Peter as an Apostle preached to , and baptized the uncircumcised Gentiles , Act. 10. 11. and Paul exercised his office of an Apostle upon the Jewes also , both by preaching and baptizing , as the history of the Acts , chap. 16. chap. 17. and other places may cleare , Rom. 1. so that the contrary doctrine is a new conceite , not of God , and against the pastorall care of bringing in soules to Christ .

Quest. II. Whether or no children be received into the visible Church by Baptisme .

In this Chapter the Author will not have persons of approved pietie and baptized to be within the visible Church , and a a Apologie for the Churches of New England against the exceptions of Ric: Bernard . cap. 8. the Author of the Apologie saith , We doe not beleeve that children are received within the visible Church by baptisme , for if they be not in Christs Church , before they be baptized , what hath a Minister to doe to baptize them who are not of the Church ? and if they be within the Church before baptisme , how shall they be received in the Church by baptisme ? if you say , they may be received , that is , declared by baptisme to have beene received into the Church by the Covenant of their fathers : We demand into which Church ? not into our owne Church , for their parents were never members of a Church , and we cannot put the seale of God upon a falsehood ? not into the Church from whence their fathers came , for we know not whether their fathers were casten out of the Church , or not .

Some considerations are here to be set downe .

1. Baptisme is not that whereby we are entred into Christs mysticall and invisible body as such , for it is presupposed we be members of Christs body , and our sinnes pardoned already , before baptisme come to bee a seale of sinnes pardoned , but baptisme is a seale of our entry in Christs visible body , as swearing to the Colours is that which entreth a Souldier to be a member of such an Army , whereas before his oath , he was onely a heart friend to the army and cause .

2. Baptisme as it is such is a seale , and a seale as a seale addeth no new lands or goods to the man to whom the Charter and seale is given , but only doth legally confirme him in the right of such lands given to the man by the Prince or State , yet this hindereth not but baptisme is a reall , legall seale , legally confirming the man in his actuall and visible profession of Christ , remission of sinnes , regeneration , so as though before baptisme he was a member of Christs body , yet quoad nos , he is not a member of Christs body visible , untill he be made such by baptisme .

3. This question toucheth the controversie anent the efficiencie , working and operation of the Sacraments , of which I give a tast shortly .

Sacraments are considered as Sacraments , in abstracto , in genere sign●rum ; the reprobate doe receive holy Seales and Sacraments , else they could not be said to prophane the holy things of God , and so they may be Sacraments and worke no grace either by themselves or from God , all operation from , or about the Sacrament then must be accidentall to a Sacrament .

2. Sacraments are considered in concreto , according to all which they include in their use , to wit , as they consist of the signe , the thing signified , the institution of God , and the promise of grace , and in this meaning a a Altisiodorens . lib. 4. sim. tract . 3. in Princip . Altisiodorensis ( as I conceive ) maketh the Sacraments not efficient causes of grace , yet materiall causes containing grace , uti vas medicinam , so the Scripture saith , Baptisme saveth , as the Physitians glasse cureth the disease , and b b Gul. Paris . ract . de sacram . in Gen. cap. 1. Sacramenta habent vim impe●●a●or●ā gratiae , ratione or ationum minist●● et Ecclesiae . Guliel . Parisiens . said not ill , that the Sacraments have a power to obtaine grace by faith and prayer , that is , being used in faith and sincere calling upon God , they obtaine grace ; so to speake accurately this is all about the Sacrament , rather then from the Sacrament : to which sense c c Du●and . 4. d. 1. art. 2. c 7. Durandus , d d Occam . in 4. quaest. 1. Occam e e Gab. Biel. 4 d. 1 ar. 2 c. 7. Gabriel Biel f f Aliacensis in 4. q. 1. art. 1. con●l . 3. Aliacensis doe deny the Sacraments to be Physicall instruments producing grace in a Physicall way , ( though Papists cry out against our Divines for teaching so ) onely they say , God at the presence of the Sacrament produceth grace of his meere free will , ad praesentiam Sacramenti operatur deus gratiam ex solâ liberâ suâ voluntate . And for this cause g g Greg. de Valent. de offic. Sacr. c. 1. 2. Gregorius de Valentia saith these Schoolemen nihil amplius tribuere Sacramentis , quam haeretici tribuunt , give no more to the Sacraments then hereticks give ; yet h h Vasquez in 3. Thom. tom . 2. dis. 132. c. 4. Vasquez , and a Jesult professor at Rome i i Joan de Lugo de Sacram. dis. 4 sect. 4. & sect. 5. Joan. de Lugo teach that the Sacraments are morall causes of grace , but not physicall . It is grosse that k k Henricus quodli . 4. q. 37. Henricus saith , that God createth grace , per tactum Sacramentorum , by the touch of the Sacraments , as Christ cured the Leper by the touch of his hand : for Sacraments are not miracles , as Papists say , Phisicke worketh upon a mans body when he sleepeth , so doe Sacraments justifie and worke grace , ex opere operat● , though the faith of the Sacrament-Receiver doe worke nothing at all .

4. Sacraments are considered . 1. As holy signes . 2. As Religious seales . 3. As instruments by which faith worketh . 4. As meanes used by , us out of conscience of obedience to Christs commandement who hath willed us to use them .

Sacraments as signes are objective and morall causes , exciting the mind as the word doth in a morall way , they represent Christ and him crucified , and this Sacraments have commune with the word . The Sacrament is a visible word teaching us . 2. Sacraments have the consideration of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 & non 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 tantum , they be seales , and not teaching and representing signes onely : this way also they have no reall or physicall action in them or from them ; for a seale of a Prince and State , as it is such , conferreth not an acre or rigge of land , but it is a legall Declaration that those lands written in the body of the Charter , doe duely belong to the Person to whom the Charter is given . But a a Romonst . in Apol ca. 23. in caena non obsipnatur pe●catorum re●nissi● , sed tantum ●●nsequente● una cum Christ● morte , cujus effectus illa obsignatio est , illam ●lim obsignatam fuisse comme moratur ac praedicatur . Arminians do here erre , as b b Episcop. dis . 29. thes. 8. Episcopius , and also , c c Socinus de officio ●omini Christs cap 4. Socinus , and d d Smalcius disp . 9. contra ●rautzium pag. 199. fabulae sunt aliquam esse internam eff●caciam in baptisme . Smalcius , who teach that the Sacraments be nothing but externall rites and declarative signes , scadowing out Christ , and the benefits of his death to us , because they find a morall objective working in the Word of God , but a substantiall and Physicall working betwixt us and Christs bodie ( they say ) is ridiculous , but they would remember that this is an insufficient enumeration , the seale of a Kings Charter hath besides a morall action on the mind , by bringing to the mind such lands given to such a man , and so the seales , worketh upon the witnesses , or any who readeth the Charter as well as upon the owner of the Charter : I say beside this the seale hath some reall action , I grant not in it , but about it , and beside it ; for it sealeth that such lands are really and in effect given by the Prince and State , the action is about the seale , not in or from the seale : When a Generall of an Army delivereth the keyes of a Castle to a Keeper thereof , he saith [ I deliver the house to you ] when he delivereth the Keyes onely Physically , and not the stones , walls or timber of the house , by a Physicall action or Physicall touch , contactu Physico , yet in delivering the keyes , he doth really deliver to him the Castle , but in a legall and morall way .

Arminians and Socinians may see here that there is neither an action by way of naked representation and teaching , for the Sacrament is a teaching signe to the beholders who receive it not , nor is it a Physicall action , as if Christs Physicall body in a Physicall way were given ; yet it is an action reall , and morall : so the Sacraments are signes exhibitive and not naked signes . Our brethren doe side with Arminians and Socinians , who so often teach that Sacraments make nothing to be what they were not , but onely declare things to be what they are . It is true , the formall effect of a Sacrament is to seale and confirme ; to seale and confirme is but a legall strengthning of a right , and not the adding of any new thing . Yet in this the Sacrament differeth from a seale . 1. That to a civill seale there is not required the beleeving and faith of the owner of the Charter , to make the seale effectuall ; for whether the Lord of the lands beleeve that his seale doth confirme him in the lands , or not , the seale of it selfe by the Law of the Prince & State maketh good his right to the lands : but Sacraments doe not worke ex opere operato , as civill seales doe worke , even as Physicke worketh upon the body , without the faith of the mind , though the man bee sleeping . Hence the third consideration of a Sacrament as an instrument , Faith , in and through the Sacrament being wakened and stirred up layeth hold upon Christ his death and benefits , and for this cause there is a reall exhibition of the thing signified , and the Sacrament is an exhibitive seale .

4. The Sacrament in the use is considered as wee use it in obedience to God , who saith in the Lords Supper , Do this in remembrance of me , and in this it differeth from a civill seale also . The Prince doth not conferre a seale to confirme a man in his land upon condition , that he will make use of it , otherwayes it shall be to him as no seale . But God hath given the scale of grace upon condition that wee make use thereof in Faith , else the Sacrament is blanke and null . Therefore if you beleeve , and not otherwayes , the Sacrament of the Supper sealeth and confirmeth you in this , that Christ is given already , and is in the present given to be nourishment to your soule to life eternall ; and so oft as you eate , the certioration and assurance groweth , and the faith is increased , and a further degree of a communion with Christ confirmed ; but it is not so in civill seales , though yee repeate and reiterate the same seale of lands , ten thousand times , it never addeth one aker more to the in heritance , because the repetition of a civill seale is not commanded under the promise of addition of new lands , nor is it commanded , as obedience to the owner of the Charter , that hee should make use of the seale ; but from the using in faith , the Sacrament , we receive increase of Grace , and a Sacramentall Grace .

Hence Baptisme is a seale of our incorporation in Christs visible Church , 1 Cor. 12. 13. For by one spirit we be all baptized into one body , whether we be Jew or Gentile , or whether we be bound or free , Act. 2. 41. Then they that received the word were baptized , and the same day there were added unto them three thousand souls , so Matth. 28. 19. the taught Disciples are to bee baptized in his name , Act. 8. 38. Philip was this way received in the Christian Church , and Cornelius , Act. 10. 47. and Lidia , Act. 16. 15. and the Jaylor , vers . 23. 2. That which distinguisheth by a visible note the Church as visible from the invisible Church , and from other visible societies , and sealeth our visible union with Christs body , that is , the seale of our entry in the visible Church , but baptisme is such , Ergo. 3. What circumcision was to the Church of the Jewes , that baptisme is to the Christian Church , because , in re significatâ , in the thing signified and inward substance of the Sacrament , they were both one , Col. 2. 11. 12. Phil. 3. 3. But circumcision was a seale of the Jewish entry in the visible Church , Gen. 17. 13. It being the Covenant of God in the flesh , & the uncircumcised being commanded to be cut off from Gods people , v. 14. 4. This is according to the Scriptures and the doctrine of the fathers , Augustine , Cyrill , Basilius , Tertullian , Hieronymus , Theophylact , Theodoret , Ambrose , Cyprian who constantly so teach ; so doe our Divines a a Calvin insti ut . lib. 4 cap. 15 Sect. 13. Calvin , b b Beza quaest. & resp quaest. 100. Christianos tu●n a reliquis hominibus sejungtt , tum in●e● se quasi unum sub codem cap●●e corpus consociat . Beza , c c Pareus . Vrsin . Catech. quae . 69. Art. 2. Symbolum ingressus & receptionis in Ecclesiam . Bu●nus , d d P●s●ator , Loc. 25. Th●s . 21. Pareus , e e Wallaeus in syn●ps . purior . Theol. dis. 44. Thes. 34. Piscator , f f T●len . Syntag. dis . 59. Thes. 39. Anton. Wallaeus , g g System . Theol. loc . 3 ca. 8 Symbolum , quo recipimur in cae●um filiorum Dei . Tilenus , h h Answer to 32 qwest . of Old England . Kickermanus . So Zanchius , Polanus , Sihrandus , Rivetus , Fennerus , Whittakerus , Raynoldus , Willetus , and the professors of Leyden 〈◊〉 .

Our Brethren say , it is the opinion of the i i Answer to 32 qwest . of Old England . Anabaptists , that the Church is made by baptisme , and Papists have the same conceit , and therefore place their Font at the Church doore to signifie mens entry into the Church by baptisme ; but we beleeve not that baptisme doth make men members of the Church , nor to be administrated to them who are without the Church , as the way to bring them in , but to them that are within the Church , as a seale to confirme the Covenant of Grace to them .

Answ. 1. Anabaptists deny that any ought to be baptized while thy come to age , and while they beleeve and be regenerated : and they say not farre from your selves in this , who teach it to bee absurd , to put a blanke seale upon a falshood , and so you presuppone all to be regenerated , and truly within the Covenant before they can be sealed to be within the Covenant by baptisme ; and yet you do not think all Infants of beleeving parents to be regenerated and truly within the Covenant , then is the seale blanck . Also you say , baptisme is not to be administrated to those who are without , but onely to those who are within the Church , you meane not within the Church by profession , for Infants have no profession , and you say the Sacrament cannot be put on a blanke or a falshood , Ergo , you thinke all that are baptized ought to be within the Church really , and not in profession ouely ; Ergo they must all come to age and beleeve before they can be baptized . 2. We say not that baptisme maketh a Church mysticall , and the true and lively body and Spouse of Christ , but that it is a seale confirming us of our entry in the visible Church . 3. The placing of the Font at the Church doore as a mysticall signe of our entry in the Church is an Antichristian ceremony of mens devising , which wee disclaime . 4. If Infants baptized must bee within the Church , before they can be baptized , how deny you to receive them to the Lords Supper when they come to age , while they bee againe , by your Church-oath , received within the Church ? then are they both within the Church , because they are baptized , and without the Church , because they are not received in by your Church-oath againe . 5. If baptisme be a seale of grace to confirme the Covenant of grace to those who are within the Church , that is , onely a single Congregation , ( for you deny that there be any visible Churches in the New Testament save these onely ) then are persons baptized persons , and confirmed in the Covenant of grace onely within a single Congregation . I would know if baptisme should not then be repeated and reiterated in every ones person , as they come to a new Congregation ; for they are confirmed in the Covenant of grace , by baptisme onely in one single Congregation , as you teach .

Their second and third reason is , a a Quest. 4. ibid. Baptisme and all ordinances are priviledges given to the Church , so it maketh not the Church , but the Church is before baptisme and all ordinances ; the use also of baptisme is to be a seale of the Covenant , now a seale is not to make a thing which was not , but to confirme a thing which was .

Answ. 1. The Church is indeed the Church mysticall and the invisible body of Christ before baptisme , but this proveth not but baptisme is a seale of our entry in the visible Church , for if this be a good argument , your Church-covenant , which to you is an ordinance of God , falleth to the grrund ; for persons are the true Churches of Christ before all the ordinances of Christ ; Ergo , by your Church-covenant men doe not become Christs visible Church . 2. The argument hath no feet , for the ordinance of preaching the Word is a priviledge of the Church and ordinance of God , yet is not the Church before the preaching of the Word ; for birth is not before the seed , but the seed before the birth ; the preaching of the Word is the seed of the Church , 1 Pet. 1. 23. and a meane of gathering the Church , Rom. 10. 14. and it is also a priviledge of the Church , for hee dealeth not so with every nation to send his Gospell to them , Psal. 147. 19 , 20. 3. When you say that a Seale doth not make a thing that was not , but confirme a thing that was ; while you would seeme to refute Papists , who vainely teach that Sacraments doe confe●re grace ex opere op●rato , by the deed done ; yet doe you make the Sacrament but a naked signe , and take part with Arminians and Socinians , whose very arguments in expresse words you use ; for a a Socinus , Per baptismum non confirmatur ●ides ( uti dicunt Evangelia ) cum per baptismum non quidem obsignetur , sed tantum adu●nbre●ur peccato●um ●emissio● ad obsignationem e●●n requi●●tur rei pr●batis & d●cumentum aliqu●d , ●ujusm● li nihil praestat ceremonia , & r●●us iste . quantumvis sacer , quod ad pe●●ato●um 〈◊〉 a●●tnet , sed tantum ill●m ve●●is i●n exp sita ablutione sua adu●nbrat & quodam●●d● del●●a● . Socinius goeth before you in this argument , and so doth b b Smalcius dis . 9. cont. Frantz 〈◊〉 . 2●9 . Smalcius follow him . 〈◊〉 and sealing there is required the trying of the thing , and some ●●●hing or document ; but that ceremony ( a baptisime ) and that rite , though it bee ●●ly , doth nothing to the remission of sins , but it doth onely shadow out , and as it 〈◊〉 deline●ue and point forth remission of sinnes by the washing of water ●xp●ned in the Word of God . You say , Sacraments 〈◊〉 make a thing that was not , but confirme a thing that was before ; you can have no other meaning then to deny all cansalitie and all reall exhibition of grace in the Sacraments : for if a Sacrament make not a thing that was not before , or if God give n●t , and really produce , conferre and exhibite grace , and a stronger measure of faith , and assurance of remission of sinnes , at the due and right use of the Sacrament , the Sacrament is a naked signe , and not an exhibitive Seale . But if Christ give and in the present exhibit as surely remission of sinnes , as the infant is washen with water , as our Divines , and the c c Catech●s . Palat. Palatinate Catechise teacheth , yea and d d Confess●an . 33 , 34. the confession thereof , and e e Synod Derd●a●●● . 5. sect. 17. Deus usu Sacra●●nti poll●●●tis seu p●omiss●s ●pus gra●● preducit ad sinem et persic● . the Synod of Dort teacheth , then by the Sacrament of Baptisme , a thing is made that which it was not . It is true a civill seale , as I said before , addeth no new lands to the owner of the Charter , but if Christ by his Seales rightly and in faith used , doe not onely confirme grace and pardon , but also really exhibite and give grace and pardon in a further degree , and a new measure of assurance to the conscience which there was not before , you goe not a streas breadth from Arminians and Socinians , especially seeing f f Episcopius dis . 21. T●es . 1 , 2. Episcopius , g g ●en icus Welsingius de ●ffi● . ●om . Ch●ist pag. 12. Remessi● pe●●a●●wn n●n ●●signa●● , sed significatu● . Henricus Welsingius saith that remission of finnes is not sealed by baptisme , but signified onely , and h h Remenst . Apol. ca. 23. pag 249 Tantu● significat professionem 〈◊〉 & ejusdem cul●us quo Christo cum d●●●● , adhaerent & solemn●ter testantur . the Remonstrants in their Apologie while they expone our Communion with Christ in the Lords Supper , and will reject a Physicall union of our soules with the Physicall substance of Christs body , which we also reject , they say that communion signifieth onely a profession of one and the same worship , whereby Christians sol●mnly testifie that they adhere to Christ as to ●● partaker of the Table of devils and of devils themselves , 1 Cor. 10. 18 20. is a testimony of a communion with the Devills : but the Word of God saith more , Gal. 3. 17. As many of you as are baptized , have put on Christ , So Rom. 6. 3. Therefore we are buried with ●im by baptisme unto his death , that like as Christ was raised up from the dead , by the glory of the Father , even so we also should walke in newnesse of life , Ephes. 5. 26. That he might sanctifie and cleanse his Church with the washing of water by the word , T it . 3. 5. and 1 Pet. 3. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptisme doth also now save us , &c. all this is more then a naked signification , otherwise Manna saved Israel , and the water of the rocke did wash them from their sinnes , and the sacrifice of bulls and goates did cleanse from sinne , and open heaven to sinners . Therefore by baptisme and the Lords Supper something is made what it was not before , as by partaking of the Table of Devils , the partaker is really made a partaker with the devill , and an Idolater ; and his Idolatry that he committed before was not onely confirmed and signified to be what it was before . And in this civill Seales and Sacraments differ , as I observed before .

Argu. 4. God ( say they ) had a Church when there was neither baptisme nor circumcision , yea baptisme hath beene administrated and Answ to the 4. q Arg. 3 4. no Church-members made thereby , and men have beene made members of Christ and not then baptized ; and John and Christs Disciples baptized , Matth. 3. 6. John 4. 1. but neither Christ nor John made new Churches , they all living and dying members of the Jewish Church of which they were before , and if any of them after became members of Christian Churches , they were not then baptized when they were so admitted , having beene baptized before .

Answ. We teach not that baptisme constituteth the Church simply , as the Church , but that it is a seale of a visible membership , and all baptized by John Baptist , and the Disciples of Christ , were thereby entred in a visible profession that they beleeved in Christ already come , and so were made members and citizens by that publicke symbole and seale , that they were members of the Christian Church , though as yet it received not that name of a Christian Church , and they were members both of the Jewish and Christian Church : For these are not contrary incorporations , and they needed not to bee baptized againe when they were added to the Christian Church , for they were never added to the visible Christian Church ; nor needed they to be added , seeing they were members of that Church before .

Argu. 5. These inconveniences ( say they ) should follow . 1. Baptisme should be administrate by such as are not ministers at all ; for who should baptize them who are converted without the Church ? extraordinary officers are ceased and ordinary are limited onely to their owne f●●ks : also the Church is before the ministers , for the Church hath power to choose ministers ; now if baptisme make the Church , then must ●●n be baptized before there be ministers to baptize them .

Answ. You see to what absurdities your owne grounds drive you , for if none can baptize but these of a fixed Congregation , and if they can baptize none but their owne Congregation , none as a sent Pastor whose feet is pleasant on the mountaines , can preach and beget faith in a company of unbeleevers , not in a Church-state , which is a limiting of the wise God , who by Pastors as Pastors can beget faith in men without a parishionall Church , which is contrary to Gods Word , Rom. 10. 14. 2. It is false that the Church ministeriall , which only can baptize , is before the officers , for they should then be before themselves , which is absurd , nor is there such necessitie of baptisme , as that those who are no ministers should baptize .

2. Inconvenient . It should follow that Papists should be members of the Church , for they have baptisme so farre right , as that it cannot be repeated .

Answ. If your Church-covenant bee that which essentially constituteth a Church-member , then Papists , Atheists , and Hypocrites may be Church-members also by this reason , because they may sweare your Church-oath . Hypocrites doubtlesse doe it . And this argument is as much for the Anabaptists as against us , for it should prove that none should be baptized but members of the true Church and sound beleevers : now by baptisme none a●e made members of the true Church except where baptisme is received by true faith , which is more , nor can bee done by a Papist ; nor is it inconvenient to say that Papists as baptized & under that reduplication are members of the visible Church , though as baptized thus and thus , they be not members of the true visible Church , professing the sound faith .

Also ( say they ) baptisme may remaine where as Church-membership is dissolved , as in the case of excommunication , Matth. 18. 17. or of voluntary and unjust departure , 1 Job . 2. 19. Jude 19. Heb. 10. 25. in which case such Schismaticks are no members of the visible Church , as a a Am●s ●as . C●●se . l. 5. c. 12. 1. 4. Am●sius saith : and if the Church bee dissolved , the Church membership ceaseth , for , Relata se mutuo ponunt & tollunt .

Answ. This is against your selves , and doth as well prove that baptisme is not a seale of the covenant of grace , for an excommunicate person may remaine externally without the covenant to the visible Church , when baptisme remaineth a seale , and may be a seale of a grace or priviledge , which is interrupted or removed in act , but remaineth in habite : as to bee the eldest sonne of a King , may be a seale of the sonnes hei●eship , and yet he may for a fault be disherited and cast out of his place . The Church and Church-membership are Relata secundum es● , not secundum dici onely , or relata 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : but baptisme and Church-membership are not so perfect relatives , but baptisme doth remaine and the Church-membership may bee dissolved : as the Burgesse ticket whereby a man hath right to all the citie priviledges may remaine , when the man for some crime committed against the citie hath lost all his citie priviledges and is not now a free citizen , in which case his Burgesse ticket sealeth nothing to him : so baptisme sealeth not actuall membership in case of excommunication , yet remaineth baptisme valid in the acts of sealing other things . As for Schismatickes who onely for Schisme are out of the Church , and doe hold no erroneous point of doctrine , and are not yet convinced , they are yet members of the visible Church , as a a Morton Apologia de no●is R●cl . ca. 2. ●at . 1. pag 7. Morton saith from Gerson , as also b b Doct. Glorianus lib. de schismat . pag. 181. Glorianus ; but he who is casten out as a Schismaticke , is in the same case with an excommunicate person .

Lastly , baptisme is not a priviledge of a particular visible Church onely ; nor doth the place of 1 Cor. 12. vers. 13. meane of the visible parishionall Church of Corinth , but of the whole visible Church of Jew and Gentile , bond and free , as the words doe beare .

Quest. III. In what cases it is lawfull to separate from a Church .

In this discourse three things must bee discussed , 1. With what Church retaining the doctrine of fundamentalls , we are to remaine . 2. Whether our separation from Rome bee not warrantable . 3. Whether wee may lawfully separate from true Churches , for the sinnes of the Churches . 1 Cor. 3. 11. Another foundation can no man lay , then that which is laid , Jesus Christ . Hence Jesus Christ is the foundation of faith reall or personall , and the knowledge of Christ is the dogmaticall foundation of faith , Upon this foundation some build gold , that is , good doctriae : some hay and stubble , that is , as c c Calvin com . ibid. Calvin faith , curious doctrine , d d Pareus com . ibid. Pareus , vaine and frivolous doctrine . We are to distinguish betwixt articles of faith , or res fidei , matters of faith , and fundamentall points of faith . Matters of faith I reduce to three . 1. Fundamentall points . 2. Supra-fundamentalia , superstructions ●●illed upon fundamentalls . 3. Circa-fundamentalia , things about ma●ers of Faith ; for praeter fundamentalia , things indifferent and besides the foundation in matters of Religion , and morall carriage , I acknowledge none ; fundamentalls are the vitall and noble parts or the soule of Divinitie . The ignorance of fundamentalls condemneth , which is to be understood two wayes . 1. The Ignorance of fundamentalls , such as are supernaturall fundamentalls , condemneth all within the visible Church as a sinne ; but it doth not formally condemne those who are without the visible Church , Job . 15. 22. It onely maketh those who are without the Church incurable , but doth not formally condemne them : as medicine not knowne , and so not refused , maketh sicke men incurable , as a losse , but doth not kill them as a sinne . 2. Superstructures , which by consequence , arise from fundamentalls , are fundamentalls by consequent and secondarily ; as the second ranke of stones that are immediatly laid upon the foundation , are a foundation in respect of the higher parts of the wall , and therefore are materially fundamentall : and the ignorance of these virtually condemne , and the denying of such , by consequence is a denying of the foundation .

Things about the foundation , circa fundamentalia , are all things revealed in the word of God , as all Histories , Miracles , Chronol●gie , things anent Orion , the Pleiades , the North starres , Job 38. 31. 32. That Paul left his cloakc at Troas . The knowledge of these is considered three wayes . 1. As necessary , by necessitie of a meane , necessitate medii , and the knowledge ; so is not necessary to salvation , many are in glory ( I doubt not ) who lived in the visible Church , and yet knew never that Sampson killed a Lion ; but the knowledge of all these is necessary , necessitate praecepti , because all in the visible Church are oblieged to know these things , therefore the ignorance of these onely doth not actually condemne , but virtually and by demerit lead to condemnation . 2. This knowledge is considered as commanded in the excellency thereof , and so error and bad opinions about these are sinfully ill , though in the regenerate , by accident , such errors condemne not , where the foundation is holden . 3. The knowledge of these is considered as commanded and enjoyned to us with the submission of faith ; for the authority of God the Speaker , and the malicious opposing of these is a fundamentall error , not formally , but by evident consequent , for though the matter of these errors be not fundamentall , yet the malicious opposing of these is a fundamentall error against this principle [ What ever God saith is true ; ] but God saith there were eight soules in the Arke of Noah . Hence because the historiall things of Scripture and things about the foundation , as that Paul purified himselfe with the Jewes , Act. 21. that Paul rebuked Peter , Gal. 2. is no lesse true , because God hath so spoken in his Word , then this fundamentall point [ Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners ] it is cleare that the specifice and essentiall forme of a fundamentall article is not taken from the authoritie of God speaking in the Word , ( seeing Gods authoritie is one and the same in all that he speaketh ) but from the influence that the knowledge of an article hath to unite us to God in Christ , and bring us to salvation . And secondly , it will follow that this [ Thou shalt not by the use of things indifferent kill him for whom Christ died ] and the like be no lesse fundamentall , by evident consequent , in respect it is spoken by Gods own authority , then articles of our faith , Thirdly , it followeth that formalists ignorantly divide matters of Gods worship , into matters of Faith , or points fundamentall , and things indifferent , as if many Scripturall truthes were not to be found in Gods Word , such as the miracles of Moses , and Elias , the journeyes of Paul , which are neither matters fundamentall , nor yet things indifferent . Fourthly , many things may be fundamentall , by consequent , to one who can reade the Word , and heareth it read , which is not by consequent fundamentall to a rude and ignorant man .

The knowledge of points fundamentall is necessary . 1. To obtaine salvation . 2. To keepe communion with a true Church ; for we are to separate from a Church subverting the foundation and laying another foundation . Fundamentalls are restricted by many to the Creed of Athanasius , and b b Nazian. 52. Gregorius (a) S●●● . Athanas . Nazimzen , and c c Cyrill . 〈◊〉 . Ca●●ch . 4. sy●●b . Cyrillus of Jerusalem , to the Apostles Creed ; ( as it is called ) others reduce all fundamentalls to the famous Creeds of Ni●e , of Constantinople , of Ephesus , of Chalced●n ; d d Estius . l. d●st . 25. s 2. ad●●tam ●●cte Instituen●●●● . Estius restricteth fundamentalls to things necessary for the well ordering of our life ; e e Davenin● . de pa●e E●●l . ● act . pag. 28. Davenantius saith better , That such are fundamentall , the knowledge whereof is simply necessary to salvation , i● ignorance whereof doth condemne . Doctor Potter calleth them P●ime and capitall doctrines of our Religion , or of that faith which essentially constituteth a true Church , and a true Christian ; which is good , but that he contradivideth from these things not fundamentall , which may be disputed on either side , and cannot D●ci . P●tt● , Charity mistaken , cap. 8 , 9. sect. 7. pag. 216. be determined by the Word of God , and must lie under a [ non liquet ] is his error . Yet he may know that g g Bell. de Eccle. l. 3. c. 14 s. 5. Multa sum de fide quae non sunt necessaria ad salutem Bellarmine saith right many things are of faith , ( and cleare in Scripture , as historicall relations ) which are not fundamentall . h h Camero . de Eccl. pag. 272 , 273. Camero , and a greater Divine then Camero i i Beza volu . opusc . 2. de notis Eccl. pag. 141. Dom. Beza reduceth all fundamentalls to things which necessarily belongeth to faith and obedience : and k k Calvin . instit. lib. 2. cap. 16. 18. great Calvin retrincheth fundamentalls within the Apostles Creed : l l Occam dial . pag. 1. lib. 5. cap. 28. Semper ●●unt aliqu● Catholici qui in vera fide ( de necessari● ad salutem ) explicite permanebunt . Occam will have the militant ( Catholicke ) Church alwayes explicitely or expressly beleevings things necessary to salvation : and our Divines teach that the Catholike Church cannot erre in fundamentalls : they meane with pertinacie and obstinacie . 2. In all fundamentalls . 3. Totally and finally . But wee are not to beleeve Papists , who say things are fundamentall , materially in themselves , as all points necessary to bee beleeved , but things are not formally fundamentall , but such things onely as the Church d●fineth to be fundamentall . But 1. the foundation of our Faith is Gods Word , and Gods Word is necessary to be beleeved to salvation , whether the Church define it or no : to abstaine from Idolatry is necessary to be beleeved , though Aaron and the Church of Israel say the contrary , neither doth Gods Word borrow authority from men . 2. If the Church may make points to be fundamentall by their definition , whereas before they were not fundamentall , then may the Church make articles of faith ; Sure I am Paipsts , as Gerson , Occam , Almaine , Suarez , yea and a very Bellarmine is against this . Yea and by that same reason they may make fundamentall points to bee no fundamentall points , and they may turne the Apostles Creed into no faith at all , for ejusdem est potestos creare & annihilare . 3. There cannot be a greater power in the Church , to define Articles of faith , then is in God himselfe ; but the very authority of God doth not define a matter to bee an article of faith , except the necessitie of the matter so require , for God hath determined in his word , that Paul left his cloake at Treas , but that Paul left his cloake at Troas , is not ( I hope ) an article of faith , or a fundamentall point of salvation . 4. What can the Church doe , ( saith a a Vincentius Lyrinens advers. 〈◊〉 . 32. Denique quid unquam concilioium d●cretis e●is● est ( Ecclesia ) nisi ut quod an●●a simpli●●●e●●●e l●●●tar , 〈◊〉 idem posted diligentius ●●d●etur . Vincentius Lyrinens . ) but declare that that is to be beleeved , which before in it selfe was to bee beleeved : and b b Bellar de ●●ne auto● . l. 2. c. 12 Can●●lia cu● desin●unt non 〈◊〉 u 〈◊〉 ●sse in●allib●l● . ve●tatis , sed declarant Bellarmine saith , Councells maketh nothing to be of infallible verity , and so doth c c Scotus in I ●l 1● . q. t. Scotus say , Verity before heresies ( erat de fide ) was a matter of faith , though it was not declared to be so by the Church : Determinatio non facit vertatem , saith O●cam , The Churches determination maketh no truth . 3. The evidence of knowledge of fundamentals is gravely to bee considered . Hence these distinctions .

1. One may beleeve that Christ is the Sonne of God by a Divine faith , as Peter doth , Matth. 16. 17. and yet doubt of the necessary consequences fundamentall . Ergo , Christ must bee delivered into the hands of sinners , and bee crucified , as the same Peter doubted of this : for as one may fall in a grievous sinne , though regenerated , and faile in act , and yet remaine in grace , in habitu , the seed of God remaining in him ; so may Peter and the Apostles doubt of a fundamentall point of Christs rising from the dead , John 20. v 8 , 9. in an act of weakenesse , and yet have saving faith in Christ , as it is like many of of the Saints at Corinth denyed an article of their Faith , the rising againe of the dead : one act of unbeleefe maketh not an infidell .

2. Dist. A simple Papist and a Lutheran not well educated doth beleeve upon the same former ground , that Christ is true man , & hath an habitual faith of this article , that Jesus Christ is truly the Son of David , & yet holdeth transubstantiation , or consubstantiati● , that Christs body is in many sundry places in heaven , and earth , on this side of the Sea , & beyond Sea , yet the conn●xion betwixt Christs humanitie and this monster of transubstantiation not being possible , all the error may be meerely philosophick , that the extention of quantitative parts without or beyond part , is not the essence of a quantitative body ; while as the rude man beleeveth firmely that Christ is true man , and so beleeveth contradictory things by good consequence ; therefore the qualitie of the conscience of the beleever is to be looked into , since fundamentall heresie is essentially in the mind , and pertinacy and selfe-conviction doth inseparably follow it . 1. There is a conscience simply doubting of fundamentall points , this may be with a habit of sound faith . 2. A scrupulous conscience which from light grounds is brangled about some fundamentall points , and this is often in sound beleevers , who may and doe beleeve , but with a scruple . 3. A conscience beleeving opinions and conjecturing and guessing , as in Atheists , this is damnable ; but where obstinacy is , as defending with pertinacie transubstantiation , and that it is lawfull to adore bread , this pertinacious defending of Idolatry doth inferre necessarily , that the faith of the article of Christs humanitie is but false and counterfeit , and not saving .

3. Dist. There is a certitude of adherence formall , and a certitude of adherence virtuall . A certitude of adherence formall is , when one doth adhere firmly to the faith of fundamentalls . A certitude of adherence virtuall is , when with the formall adherence to some fundamentall points , there is an ignorance of other fundamentall points , and yet withall a gracious disposition and habit to beleeve other fundamentalls , when they shall bee clearely revealed out of the word , so Luke 24. Christ exponed the resurrection , and the articles of Christs sufferings and glorification , vers. 25 , 26 , 27. to the Disciples who doubted of these before , and yet had saving faith of other fundamentall points , Matth. 16. 17. 18.

4. Hence there be two sorts of fundamentalls , some principally and chiefely so called , even the elements and beginning of the doctrine of Christ , as Credenda , things to be beleeved in the Creed , the object of our faith ; and p●tenda , things that we aske of God , expressed in the Lords Prayer , the object of our hope specially . 2. Agenda , things to be done , contained in the decalogue , the object of our love to God and our brethren ; Others are so secundarily fundamentall , or lesse fundamentalls , as deduced from these ; yea there be some artcles of the Creed principally fundamentall , these all are explicitely to be beleeved , noted by a a Vigilius Martyr . l. 2. c. 4 Vigilius Martyr , and b b Pareus in Prolegomen . in comment . in Hos. 4. Pareus : as that Christ died and rose againe , &c. Other Articles are but modi articulorum fundamentalium , and expositions and evident determinations of cleare articles : As Christs incarnation , and taking on our flesh is explained by this , conceived of the holy Ghost , and borne of the Virgin Mary ; the death and suffering of Christ is exponed by subordinate articles , as that he suffered under Pontius Pilate , was crucisied , &c. and these lesser fundamentalls are to be beleeved , necessitate praecepti , because God commandeth them , but happily non necessitate medii . It is possible many bee in glory who beleeve not explicitely , but onely in the disposition of the mind , ( as some are baptized , in voto , in their desire onely ) these lesser fundamentalls , it is enough they have the faith of non-repugnancy , or negative adherence to these , so as they would not deny them , if they had beene proponed to them in a distinct and cleare way .

5. The faith of fundamentalls is implicit three wayes . 1. In respect of the degree of beleeving . 2. In respect of the object . 3. In respect of the subject , or our adherence to things beleeved . In respect of degrees the faith is implicite and weake three wayes , as Calvin may teach . 1. Because we are ignorant of some lesse fundamentalls . 2. Because we see in a mirror and imperfectly . 3. In respect of beleeving upon a false ground , as for miracles . In respect of the object , the certaintie is most sure , as sure as that God cannot lie .

In respect of our adherence of understanding and affections ; in this respect the knowledge of fundamentalls must bee certaine . 1. By a negative certitude which excludeth doubting , and so Pastor and people must have a certitude of fundamentalls , as Rom. 14 , 5. Col. 1. 9. Heb. 5. 12. but for a positive certitude there is not that measure required in a teacher that is in a scholler , for all the body cannot be an eye , 1 Cor. 12. 17. yet is a Christian certitude and fulnesse of perswasion required even of all Christians , Colos. 2. 2. Colos. 3. 16. highest and greatest in its kind , though many may bee saved with lesse , yet a distinct knowledge of fundamentalls in all is not necessary by a necessitie of the meanes , necessitate medii , as Beza and Doctor Ames

Peza Vol 1. opul p 141.

Amesius de c●ust● . l. 4. c. 2. q 3.

Becanus 2. part de V●tu●i . Theolog. c. 2. q. 3.

Estius l. 3. d. 25 q. 2.

Suarez de Trip. disp. virt. Theolo . 13. sect 8.

Thomas 22. q 2. art. 5.

teach .

There is a faith of fundamentalls implicite in respect of the will and affections which Papists make a wide faith , as the J●u●e Becanus thinke to beleeve these two fundamentalls , 1. That there is a God . 2. That this God hath a providence con●●●ning mens salvation , though other particulars be not knowne . Or implicite faith is , saith Estius , when any is ready to beleeve what the Church shall teach ; which faith ( Suarez saith ) though it include ignorance , yet keepeth men from the danger of errors , because it doth submit the mind to the nearest rule of teaching , to wit , to the Church ; the knowledge of fundamentalls in this sense doth not save , but condemne . Thomas saith better then he .

6. Dist. They are not alike who beleeve fundamentall here●ies . 2. And who defend them . 3. And who teach them , and obtrude them upon the consciences of others . For the first , many beleeve fundamentall errors who are ignorant of them , and doe thinke that they firmely adhere to Christian Religion , O●cam termeth such , haereticos nescientes , ignorant heretickes , as O●cam dialog. p. 7. l. 4. c. 3. ●●ac . ● Moratius de fide dist. 24. sect. 4 n. 7. 8. the Marcionites , and the Manicheans , and these the Church should tolerate while they bee instructed . It is true the Jesuite Meratius saith , When many things are proposed to the understanding for one and the same formall reason , to wit , for divine authoritie , the understanding cannot imbrace one but it must imbrace all , nor ●●ject one , but it must reject all , which is true of a formall malitious rejecting ; the Manichean beleeveth nothing because God saith it , and hath faith sound and saving in nothing , but it is not true of an actuall or virtuall contempt , in one or two fundamentalls , because beleevers out of weakenesse , ignorance , and through strength of tentation may doubt of one fundamentall , as the Disciples doubted of the resurrection , Joh. 20. 9. and yet in habite beleeve all other fundamentalls , but the Church is to correct such as professe fundamentall heresies , and to cast out of the Church seducers and deceivers .

7. Dist. It is one thing to hate a fundamentall point , as that [ Christ is consubstantiall with the Father ] as the Arians doe , and another thing , by consequence to subvert a fundamentall point , as Papists by consequence deny Christ to bee true man , while they hold the wonder of Transubstantiation , yet doe not they hate this conclusion formally [ that Christ is true man . ]

8. Dist. Though it were true which Doctor Christo. Potter saith , If we put by the Points wherein Christians differ one from another , Doctor Potter Charitie mistaken , c. 8. s. 7. pag. 235. and gather into one body the rest of the articles , wherein they all gnerallaly agree , we should finde in these propositions , which without all controversie are universally received in the whole Christian world , so much truth is contained , as being joyned with holy obedience may be sufficient io bring a man to everlasting salvation . I say , though this were true , yet will it not follow that these few fundamentalls received by all Christians , Papists , Lutherans , Arians , Verstians , Sabellians , Maccdonians , Nestorians , Eutychanes , Socinians , Anabaptists , Treithitae , Antitrinitarii ( for all these be Christians and validely baptized ) doe essentially constitute a true Church , and a true Religion . Because all Christians agree that the old and New Testament is the truth and Word of God , and the whole faith of Christian Religion is to bee found in the Old Testament , acknowledged both by Jewes and Christians ; for that is not the Word of God indeed in the Old Testament , which the Jewes say is the Word of God in the Old Testament . Yea the old and new Testament , and these few unc●n●●averted points received universally by all Christians are not Gods Word , as all these Christians expone them , but the dreames and fancies of the Jewes saying , that the old Testament teacheth that Christ the Messiah is not yet come in the flesh , the Treithitae say there be three Gods , yet are the Treithitae Christians in the sense of Doctor Potter : so that one principall as that There is one God , and Christ is God and man , and God is noely to be adored , not one of these are uncontraverted , in respect every society of Sectaries have contrary expositions upon these common fundamentalls , and so contrary Religions . Who doubteth but all Christians will subscribe and sweare with us Protestants the Apostolicke Creed but will it follow that all Christians are of one true Religion , and doe beleeve the same fundamentalls ? now these fundamentalls are the object of faith according as they signifie things . To us and to the Treithitae this first Article ( I beleeve in God ) as I conceive doth not signifie one and the same thing ; now joyne this ( I beleeve in God ) with holy obedience as wee expone it , and as the Treithitae expone it , it could never bee a step to everlasting salvation ; for it should have this meaning , ( I beleeve there is one only true God , and that there be also three Gods ) and what kind of obedience joyned with a faith made up of contradictions , can bee availeable to salvation ? 3. One generall Catechise and confession of faith made up of the commonly received and agreed upon fundamentalls , would not make us nearer peace , though all Christians should sweare and subscribe this common Christian Catechise , no more then if they should sweare and subscribe the old and new Testament , as all Christians will doe , and this day doth .

9. Disl . Though the knowledge of fundamentalls be necessary to salvation , yet it cannot easily be defined , what measure of knowledge of fundamentalls , and what determinate number of fundamentalls doth constitute a true visible Church , and Voetiu . de●p . cans . Papa●s● . a sound beleever , as the learned Voetius saith .

Hence 1. They are saved , who soundly beleeve all fundamentalls materially , though they cannot distinctly know them , under the reduplication of fundamentalls , nor define what are fundamentalls , what not .

2. Though a Church retaine the fundamentalls , yet if wee beforced to avow and beleeve as truth , doctrines everting the foundation of faith , against the article of one God ; if we must worship as many Gods as there bee hosties , if Christs Kingly , Priestly , and Propheticall office be overturned , as we were forced in Popery to do , we are to separate from the Church in that case .

It is not true that Master Robinson saith , This distinction of fundamentalls and non-fundamentals in injurious to growing in Robinson lust ●s● . pag. 362. grace , whereas we should be led on to perfection , as if it were sufficient for a house , that the foundation were laid .

Answ. It followeth not , for the knowledge of fundamentalls is onely , that wee may know what is a necessary meane of salvation , without which none can be saved , notwithstanding , he who groweth not , and is not led on to perfection , never laid hold on the foundation Christ ; nor are we hence taught to seeke no more , but so much knowledge of fundamentals , as may bring as to heaven , that is an abuse of this Doctrine . 2. Robinson faith fundamentall truthes are holden and professed by as vile heretickes as ever were since Christs dayes , a company of excommunicates may hold , teach and defend fundamentall truths , yet are they not a true Church of God ?

Answ. Papists hold fundamentalls , and so doe Jewes hold all the old Testament and Papists hold both new and old , but we know they so hold fundamentalls , that by their doctrine they overturne them ; and though there bee fundamentalls taught in the Popish Church , which may save if they were beleeved , yet they are not a true and ministeriall Church simply , because , though they teach , that there is one God , they teach also there is a thousand Gods whom they adore , and though they teach , there is one Mediator , yet doe they substitute infinite Mediators with and besides Christ , so that the truth is , not a formall , ministeriall and visible active externall calling is in the Church of Rome , as it is a visible Church , in the which wee can safely remaine , though fundamentalls be safe in Rome , and the bookes of the old and new Testament be there , yet are they not there ministerially as in a mother whose breasts we can sucke ; for fundamentall points falsely exponed , cease to be fundamentall points , yea as they be ministerially in Rome , they be destructive of the foundation , though there bee some ministeriall acts valid in that Church , for the which the Church of Rome is called a true Church , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in some respect , according to something essentiall to the true Church , yet never sine adjecto , as if it were a true Church , where we can worship God . Fundamentalls are safe in Rome materially in themselves , so as some may be saved who beleeve these fundamentalls ; but fundamentalls are not safe in Rome , Ecclesiastice , Ministeraliter , Pastoraliter , in a Church way , so as by beleeving these from their chaires so exponed , they can be saved who doe beleeve them . 2. Out of which we may have the doctrine of faith and salvation as from a visible mother , whose daughters we are . Some say the fundamentalls amongst Lutherans are exponed in such a way as the foundation is everted ? I answer , There is a twofold eversion of the foundation . 1. One Theologicall , Morall and Ecclesiastick , as the doctrine of the Councell of Trent , which is in a ministeriall way , with professed obstinacy against the fundamentall truths rightly exponed , and such an eversion of the foundation maketh the Popish Church no Church truely visible , whose breasts we can sucke . But for Lutheranes , their subversion of the foundation by philosophick consequences without professed hatred to the fundamentalls , and that not in an Ecclesiasticke and Ministeriall way , doth not so evert the fundamentalls , as that they bee no visible Church . The learned Pareus sheweth that there be no difference Pareus in Jere. c. 12 , 13 , 14 , &c. betwixt us and Lutherans in heads absolutely necessary to salvation , the dissention is in one point onely anent the Lords Supper , not in the whole doctrine thereof , but in a part thereof , not necessary for salvation . There were divisions betweene Paul and Ba●nabas , betwixt Cyprim an African Bishop , and Stephanus Bishop of Rome , anent baptisme of hereticks , which Cyprian rejected as no baptisme ; betwixt Basilius Magnus and Eusebius Ce●ariensis , because Basilius stood for the Emperour Va●ns his power in Church matters ; so was there dissention betwixt Augustine and Hier●nimus anent the ceremonies of the Jewes , which Hyeronymus thought might be retained to gaine the Jewes ; so there was also betwixt Epiphanius and Chrysostome anent the bookes of Orig●n . The Orthodox beleevers agreed with the Novations against the Arrians anent the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; the consubstantialitie of Christ ; and though excommunicate persons defend and hold all fundamentalls sound , and so may bee materially a true Church , yet because their profession is no profession , but adenying of the power of godlinesse , they cannot be formally a visible Church , but are for scandalls casten out of the visible Church .

But ( saith Robinson ) most of England are ignorant of the first rudiments and foundation of Religion , and therefore cannot bee a Robinson Justifi . pag. 362. Church .

Answ. Such are materially not the visible Church and have not a profession , and are to be taught , and if they wilfully remaine in that darknesse are to be cast out .

But ( saith he ) the bare profession of fundamentalls maketh not a Pag. 363 , 364. Church ; they must be a company of faithfull people , and if they must not be truely faithfull , then they must be falsely faithfull ; for God requireth true and ready obedience in his word , according to which wee must define Churches , and not according to casuall things .

Answ. This is a speciall ground that deceiveth the Separatists , their ignorance ( I meane ) of the visible Church , for the visible Church consisteth essentially neither of such as be truely faithfull , nor of such as must be falsely faithfull ; for the ignorant man seeth not that the visible Church includeth neither faith , nor unbeliefe in its essence or definition . It is true , to the end that professors may be members of the invisible Church , they must be beleevers , & must beleeve , except they would be condemned eternally ; but to make them members of the visible Church neither beleeving nor unbeleeving is essentiall , but onely a profession ecclesiastically in tear , that is not scandalous & visibly & apparently lewd and flagitious , such as was the profession of Simon Magus , when he was baptized with the rest of the visible Church , Act. 8. And God indeed requireth of us true worship and ready obedience , as he saith , but not that a visible Church should be defined by true and sincere obedience : for essentials onely are taken in a definition , and casuall corruptions are only accidentall to Churches , and fall out through mens faults , and therefore should not be in the definition either of a visible or an invisible Church ; nor should ready and sincere obedience which is a thing invisible to mens eyes , be put in the definition of a visible Church , for it is accidentall to a visible Church , and nothing invisible can be essentiall to that which essentially is visible ; the visible Church is essentially visible . Anent separation from Rome we hold these Propositions .

1. Profession consistetly not onely in a publike ministeriall avowing of the truth , but also in writing , suffering for the truth , and death-bed-confessions of the truth ; These worthy men in their owne bowells , as Occam , Petrarcha , Gerson , Mirandula , these who in their death bed renued confidence in merits , Saints , Images , were the true Church , and the other side the false Church , all the Churches of Asia excommunicated by Victor , as a a Bellarmine de ve● bo Dei lib. 3. cap 6. Bellarmine saith and Binnius ; b b Binnius tom . 1. conc●l . fel. 133. Pope Stephen then and his Councell denying communion to Cyprian and fourescore of Bishops must bee the Separatists , and Cyprians and his adherents the true Church . 2. In this division we are united to the true Apostolick , to the ancient Church , to the true ancient Church of Rome , which opposed the Apostate Church of Rome , but an immediate and personall adherence to , and union with the ancient Church is not essentiall to a visible Church .

The separation from a true Church , where the Word of Just. sic . pag. 264 , 265. God Orthodox is preached , and the Sacraments duely administred , wee thinke unlawfull ; and the place for separation mainely I would have vindicated , 2 Cor. 6. 14. Be ye not unequally yoaked together with unbeleevers , &c. Robinson will have this strong for their separation , and saith . 1. It is true , he findeth fault with the beleeving Corinthians , communicating with the unbeleeters in the Idol feasts , but with all it must be considered , that the Apostle up in this particular occasion delive●eth a generall doctrine , as from ●●●●●tion , 1 Cor. 5. to forbid commingling with fornicators , with 〈◊〉 persons , with Idolaters , &c. and as he forbiddeth partaking with the wicked in their evills , yet then therein did he forbid all religious communion with them , since their very prayers , and other Sacrifices are their evills , wherein whilst the godly doth communicate with them , what doe they else but acknowledge their common right and interest in the holy things with them ?

Answ. 1. It is good that Robinson with the interpreters doth acknowledge , that Paul forbiddeth communicating with unbeleevers a● Idol feasts , as the place will command us to separate from the Masse Service , and therein let it be that hee inferreth a generall ; Ergo , you are to separate from all the worship of the Gentiles Idols , and are not to be mixed with them in their service , which they give to their false gods : but this is not the generall which includeth separation from a Church , in the service of a true God , the service being lawfull , and onely evill to some worshippers and by accident , because they eate to themselves damnation , but not damnation to others .

2. But he forbiddeth ( saith he ) all partaking with the wicked in their evills . I distinguish their evills in their evills , of their personall sins in not worshipping the true God in faith , sincerity & holy zeale , that I deny , and it is to be proved , Christ himselfe and the Apostles eated the Passeover , and worshipped God with one whom Christ had said had a devill , and should betray the Sonne of man , and was an uncleane man , Job . 13. 11 , 12. 18. He forbiddeth all partaking with the wicked in their evills , that is , in the unlawfull and Idol-worship , or in their superstitions and will-worship ; that is true , but nothing against us , or for your separation . If it be said , Judas was neither convicted of his Traitory to Christ , nor was he knowne to the Apostles by name to be the man , for some of them suspected themselves , and not Judas to bee Traytor : but you communicate with such as be professed and avowed Traytors , and persons knowne to be scandalous , and so you acknowledge you have a common right in these holy things , with these persons .

Answ. 1. Christ shewed to the Disciples that they were an uncleane societie , and that one had a devill , and therefore though they knew not the man by name who had the devill , they knew the societie to have a devill , and to be uncleane , for that one man his cause , and so neither Christ nor his Disciples should have taken part with the evills , and the Prayers and sacrifices of the wicked , for in so doing they acknowledge that they have commune right and interest in the holy things of God , with some who have a devill , and with an uncleane societie ; but you cannot condemne Christ and the Disciples communicating at that Supper .

2. Though the scandalous person bee not convicted of the scandall , that doth make the scandall more grievous and haynous to the scandalous person , in that he dare remaine in a sin , though he be convicted of his guiltinesse by the Church , but it doth not make the persons scandall to be no scandall , and no uncleannesse at all ; for magis & minus non variant speciem , more or lesse of sinne doth not vary the nature of sin : now if Paul will the Corinthians to meet together to eate the Lords body , as hee doth , 1 Cor. 11. and know that there bee amongst them carnall men , such as goe to Law with their brethren before Infidels , such as deny the resurrection , such as come drunke to the Lords Supper , though they bee not convicted of these sinnes by the Church , yet if they be knowne to others , as Paul doth declare them in that Epistle , they must pollute the Lords Table before the Church convict them , no lesse then after the Church hath convicted them , though the pollution may bee more and greater after Church-conviction , then before , yet Paul willeth all the Corimbians to acknowledge their communion with the sinnes of the non-convicted , and with their abominable and wicked sacrifices and prayers , which none can teach or beleeve of the Apostle led by an infallible spirit , and therefore to communicate with them , is not to take part of their evills .

3. He saith at last , They who communicate at the same Table with scandalous persons , what doe they else but acknowledge their commune right and interest in the holy things of God , with such scandalous persons ? And this is that which Master Coa●hman saith , This banquet Robert Coachman , The cry of the S●o●e , sect. 4. pag. 10. 1● . of the Lords Supper , is the nearest fellowship that the Saints have in this world ; what lying signes and dec●avable demoust●ations d●e these make who communicate they care not where , nor with whom , but thinke if they examine themselves , it is well enough , forgetting that it is an act of communion ? for if we sever the word Sacrament from communion , we put out Gods tearme and put in our owne .

But I answer . 1. These who are baptized by one spirit unto one body , as all the visible Churches are , 1 Cor. 12. 13. & professedly heare one Word preached , doe thereby acknowledge they have one communion , right and interest in these holy things , to wit , in a communion with Christ in remission of sinnes , and regeneration sealed in baptisme , and in one common Saviour , and common faith preached in the Gospell ; and is this communion unlawfull , and this fellowship a lying signe , because all baptized , and all hearing one Gospell , and that in an avowed profession , are not knowne to be regenerated ? Then should no Infants be baptized , except they know all in the visible Congregation baptized with them to bee regenerated also , for it is certaine that we have a communion most inteare and visible with all who are baptized .

2. It is no inconvenient to professe that we are all one visible body in the Lords Supper , 1 Cor. 10. 17. though wee be not one invisible , true , and mysticall , and redeemed body of Christ , as it is said , 1 Cor. 10. 2. That all were baptized unto Moses in the cloud , and in the Se●t , v. 3. and that all did eate the same spirituall meat , v. 4. and that all did drinke the same spirituall drinke , the rocke Christ , yet did they not sinne in this , and partake with the wicked in their ●ills , to wit in their wicked prayers and sacrifices , because it is said , v. 3. God was not pleased with many of them in the Wildernesse , because , v. 6. They lusted after evill things , and many of them were Idolaters , Epicures , fornicators , tempters of Christ , and mumurers , and there sell of them in one day twenty three thousand , v. 7. 89 , 10 , 11. And upon the same ground Paul saith in the same place , v. 16 , 17. that we many ( speaking of the Corinthians ) are all 〈◊〉 ●read , and one body , and yet v. 21. many of these were parta●ers of the Table and cup of the devills : and in the next Chapter , many came drunke to the Lords Table , many did eate and drinke their owne damnation , and were stricken therefore of God with sicknes and de●th , v. 18 , 19 , 20. 29 , 30 , &c. and yet v. 33. Paul charg●th them to come together to the Lords Supper , so farre is hee from a shadow of separation . The Sacrament is a seale of their unitie of one body , and is a Seale of their communion with Christ , v. 16. but all who receive the signe , have not a communion with Christ , nor are they all sealed , as one body mysticall of Christ , onely they are in profession by eating one bread , declared to be one body , and doe become one body visible , and no question many make the Sacrament to themselves a lying signe , and a blaneke ordinance . But first , this is not the sinne of such as doe communicate with those , who receive the blaneke seale , and make the Sacrament to themselves a lying seale and damnation ; for they are commanded to exaamine themselves , and so to eate , but they are not commanded to examine their fellow-communicants , and they are to judge themselves , but not to judge their fellow-communicants .

Master Coachman . How can any godly man consent , or say Amen Master Coach-mans cry of the stone . Sect. 4 pag. 11. ( saith be ) to such an holy action , when it is joyntly done , by such , as for the most part , are the enemies of God ?

Answer 1. This maketh against the man , and the Churches of New England , for they admit constantly to the hearing of the word , and so to the prayers of the Church , those who are not received members of the visible Church : how can any godly man say Amen to the action of hearing the word , when it is joyntly done by Gods enemies ? I prove the Antecedent , the unity of faith hearing one word of faith preached , Eph. 4. 5. maketh a visible body in profession , even as the joynt partaking of one bread , and one cup in the Lords Supper , maketh one body , by obsignation or sealing , 1 Cor. 10. 16 , 17.

2. Division of hearts in hearing , while some follow Paul , some Apollo , some Cephas , maketh a schisme and division in Christs body , 1 Cor. 13. Ergo , in hearing one and the same word preached , there is a visible Church-union , for all division of that kind presupposeth a union , and unity in a visible incorporation .

3. 1 Cor. 14. 26. When yee come together ( as one Church body ) every one of you hath a Psalme , hath a Doctrine , vers. 4. He that prophecieth edifiesh the Church , vers. 31. so yee may all prophecy one by one , that all may learne , and all may be comforted , 35 , it is shame for a woman to speake in the Church . Therefore the Saints meet together in one Church to be edified , and comforted by doctrine and hearing of the word , doe all joyntly performe an action of hearing and learning of the word of God , and are in that one Church , and one visible body , and called one Church , verse 4. 5. that the Church may receive edifying , verse 12. Seeke that yee may excell ( by prophecying ) to the edifying of the Church , vers. 23. If therefore the whole Church come together , unto some place , &c. vers. 28. if there be not an interpreter , let him keepe silence in the Church , verse 34 , 35. And these who understand , are all to say , Amen , to that which is prophecied , verse 16 , 17. And yet that action of hearing and saying Amen to the word preached , and to the prayers of the Church , is done by many unregenerated , who are yet in the state of enmity with God , as our Brethren grant , in that they doe admit all to be a Church , and one Church hearing the word preached .

2. But how can they say Amen , ( saith he ) to a holy action done 〈◊〉 Gods enemies ?

I answer , 1. This objection is no lesse against Paul and the word of God , then against us ; for many enemies to God , whose hearts are rockie , thorny and stony ground , doe heare the 〈◊〉 of God , and that by Gods commandement , Matth. 13. vers. 2. 3 , 4 , 5. & c. The deafe and the blind are commanded to heare , Esai . 42. 18. Esai . 28. 9 , 10. and these whom God hath covered with a spirit of slumber , are to heare the words of the sealed booke , Isai. 29. 9. 10 , 11. even those who stumble at the word , and fall , and are broken , Esai . 8. 14. 15 , 16. 1 Pet. 2. v. 8. What godly man can say , Amen , to such a holy action , as is performed by Gods enemies ?

2. The godly say Amen to actions of Gods worship two wayes , 1. As it is the ordinance of God injoyned , and commanded , to the wicked and hypocrites , no lesse then to the godly , and we are to countenance their communicating , as we doe their hearing of the word , and to joyne with them both , in our reall and personall presence , and say Amen with them , as the Disciples gave their personall Amen , and their countenance and presence to a holy action at the last Supper , with one of their number , whom they knew to have a Devill , and to be a traitor , and dipped their hand in the dish with this man , after Christ had warned them , that there was such an one : but this is but to say Amen to the externall worship , which is lawfull , according to the substance of the act .

2. The godly may be throught to say Amen to the actions of worship performed by the enemies of God , by approving , allowing , and commending the manner of their performing the holy actions of Gods worship , that is , they may be thought to approve the manner of their hearing and receiving the Sacraments , that is , when they approve their performing of those holy actions without faith , and with wicked hearts and hands , and when they allow that they eats their owne damnation , thus no godly man can say Amen to holy actions performed by Gods enemies , nor is our externall communicating with them , a saying Amen to the wicked manner of receiving the seales , this is most unreasonable , and cannot be proved by Gods word .

But Robinson will prove that in this place , 2 Cor. 6. the Lord forbiddeth communion not onely with evill workes of wicked Just if pag. 265. men , but with their persons , and that he commandeth a separation , not onely reall , but personall .

1. Because ( saith he ) the Scripture hath reference to the yoaking of the unbeleevers in marriage , as the occasion of spirituall idolatrous mixture , which he reproveth ; now this joyning was not in an evill , or unlawfull thing , but with the wicked and unlawfull persons .

Answer , If the man had formed a syllogisme it should be a crooked proportion , if Paul allude to the marriage with insides , then as we are not to joyne with Pagans in lawfull marriage , so neither with scand ●●ous Christians in lawfull worship . This connexion is gratis said , and we deny it ; But as we are not to marry with Pagans , so not to sit in their Idoll-Temple , and to be present in their Idoll-worship , else we were not to admit them , or their personall presence to the hearing of the word , contrary to your selves and to 1 Cor. 14. 24 , 25. So if because we are not to marry with them , we are not to be personally present with them , at the receiving of the Sacrament , neither at the hearing of the word , nor are we to be baptized , because Sim●n Magus , and many Hypocrites are baptized . 3. Locall separation from Idoll-worship , in the Idoll-Temple , we teach as well as Robinson , but what then ? he commandeth locall and personall separation from all the professors of the truth , in the lawfull worship of God , this we deny to follow .

2. The very termes saith Robinson ) beleevers , unbeleevers , light , darknesse , Christ , Belial , doe import opposition not of things only , but of persons also , for things sake , so the faithfull are called a a Cor. 5. ●1 righteousnesse , b b Matt. 5. 14 light , and the ungody c c Sphes . 58. darknesse , and so not onely their workes , but their persons are called .

Answer . 1. We deny not opposition of persons , and separation locall from persons in Idoll-worship , at an Idoll-Table , but hence is not concluded personall separation from wicked men in the lawfull worship of God . 2. This is for us , we are to separate from the persons ; because the worship is unlawfull , and Idoll-worship , and therefore the contrary rather followeth , i● the worship were lawfull , we would not separate , for remove the cause and the effect shall cease .

3. The Apostle ( saith he ) forbiddeth all unlawfull communion in the place , but there is an unlawfull communion of the faithfull with the wicked in things lawfull , as with the excommunicated , idolatrous , 〈◊〉 , or my other flagitious person in the Sacraments , prayers , and other religious exercises , and the Iewes were to separate themselves , 〈◊〉 from the manners of the He●then , but even from their ●ers●s , ●zr . 19. 1. 2. and 10. 2 , 3. Nehem. 9. 10. 28 30. And Paul 〈◊〉 the Corinthians , 1 Cor. 5. for having fellowship , not onely in ●● persons in●est , but with the incestuous person , whom therefore they 〈◊〉 ●urge out , and to put away from amongst themselves , verse 5. ● . 13.

Answer , It is true , there is an unlawfull communion of the faithfull that is overseers and guides of the Church , to whom God hath committed the keyes of the Kingdome of Heaven , with excommunicated persons , in that they retaine one worthy to be excommunicated in the bosome of the Church : but communion with the Church in the holy things of God , is not hence concluded to be unlawfull , because the guides of the people communicate with that Church where the excommunicated person is suffered , it is the sinne of the Church-guides , that an excommunicated person is not cast out , and that he is suffered to communicate at the Lords Table , and to profane ● , in not discerning the Lords body , but it is not the sinne of either guides or the people , to communicate at one Table with the excommunicated person , or him that deserveth to be excommunicated ; for not casting out is one thing , and to communicate with the excommunicated in the true visible Church is another thing ; the former is a sinne , not to use the power that Christ hath given , but to communicate with the excommunicated person , is not a sinne , but a remembring of the Lords death at Christs commandement ; for one sinne maketh not another sinne to be lawfull , or to be no sinne ; to deliver one unto Satan is to debarre one from the Lords Supper , and to repute him as a Publican , and to judge him not worthy of the communion in the holy things of God , with the Church ; but this is not to repute the Church or guides or members as Publicans and Heathens , and as not worthy of Church-communion with the man who is cast out : we see the Church of Corinth rebuked , for not excommunicating the incestuous man , but not forbidden to come and eate the Lords Supper with him , and these who came and did eate their owne condemnation● 1 Cor. 11. yea they are commanded to come to the publike meeting : Ergo , it is one thing not to excommunicate the scandalous , a sinne , and another thing to communicate with the scandalous , which is not a sinne directly , nor forbidden at all . Though Paul have an allusion to the Lords separating of the Jewes from all other people , yet it followeth not that we are to separate from the wicked men and unrenewed , professing the truth that way ; first , because there was a typicall separation in marriage with Canaanites ; if the Jewes should marry with the Canaanites , the marriage was null , and the Moabites and Ammonites ought not to enter in the Temple .

2. The Jewes are to separate from the manners of Heathen , and from the persons of strange wives , yea and to put their wives of the Canaanites after they had married them , away from them , in token of their repentanee , because the marriage was not onely unlawfull , but null , as is cleare , Ezra . 9. 1 , 2 , 3. N●hem . 9. 1 , 2. And this was a peculiar Law binding the holy seed , but doth not inferre the like separation of Christians , for 1 Cor. 7. 11 , 12. it is not lawfull for a Christian to put away a Pagan wife , or for the beleeving wife to forsake the Pagan husband , and therefore that Jewish separation cannot inferre a separation from the persons and worship of unbeleevers ; and it is true that Paul commandeth , to cast out the incestuous person , and to separate him from the Church , but it followeth not , therefore the Church was to separate from the publike worship because he was not cast out .

4. Saith Robinson , the Apostle inj●yneth such a separation , at upon which a people is to be esteemed Gods people , the Temple of the living God , and may challenge his promise to be their God , and to dwell amongst them , and to walke there ; and as for the Temple , the stone● and timber thereof , were separated from all the trees of the Forest , and set together in comely order ; and he hath reference to the separating of the Jewes from all other people , as appeareth , Levit. 23 , 24 , 26. 11 , 12. And this must be the condition of the Israel of God , to the worlds end .

Answ. There is a separation from Idol-worship here , such as is proper to the people in Covenant with God , de jure , the visible Church should separate from Idols and the prophane world in their Idol-worship , and sinfull conversation . Ergo they should separate from the worship of God ; What sewing is here ? this is nothing for separation from the true Church , or true worship , for the sinnes of worshippers . Heare what interpreters say , as a a Gual●her com . in loc. Non debet hoc simpliciter , de solo discessu , ●x● migratione , quae corpore fit , accipi , quasi mox migrandum sit ex●mnibus locis , in quibus vel superstitiones exercentur , vel stagiti●s●ct inhoneste vivitur , sic ex hoc mundo migrandum esset . b b Calvin com . Calvin , de sugienda idololatria hic concionatur . Item , Nihil non sibi lice● putabant in externis , promiscue se impiis superstitionibus itionibus pollu●bant , siquidem insidelium couvivia frequent ando , communicabant prophanos ● impuros ritus cum ill is , atqui cum gravissime peccarent , sibi tamen ●idebantur innoxii , ergo hic invehitur Paulus in externam idololatri●● . c c Bullinger com●nent Pa●ke●us de p●lit . eccles lib. 1. cap. 14 N. 3. 2 Cot. 6. 14. At loquitur de infidelibus Pau●● , apud quos lnec legis ●ultusque der , ne● ver● fidei nec evangelii vel fundamenti rudera erant . Bullinger , Ego quam simplicissime intelligo de contagione ●orum , volupt●tum , sacrorum adeoque idolothytorum et rerum prophanarum omnium communione , putant quidam prot●nus migrandum ●x quibuslibet urbibus , si non omnes , in his , per omnia deo obediant . d d Sch. Meyer . Meyer , Objurgat ne majorem , quam dedeceret Christianos , cum Ethnicis haberent consuetudinem , vel idolothytis vescendo , vel ●●●jugium contrahendo , vel ludos theatrales spectando . e e Se● . Meyer . Marlorat , H●tur ut caveant ab omni contagione tot sordium . Ita Theophylactus , Ambrosius , et Augustinus . Paraphrastes , non in 〈◊〉 ( inquit ) sed in affectibus est fuga , quam suadet : so Beza , and Papists are not against this . Estius , neque Corinthii vocabantur h●bitare cum infidelibus , neque negotiari , neque cibum sumere . Chap. 8. v. 10. Signis vocat vos ad mensam &c. Vetat arctam so●i●atem , et necessitudinem ex qua oriebatur periculosa quaedam necessit●s communicandi in moribus et religione . Salmeron docet non li●ere Christianis jungi cum idelolatris , non relinquendo patriam aut lxum , sed cultum illorum ; All which Divines accord in this , that separation from Idolatry and the Idoll-tables of the Gentiles is here commanded , and that because the Church of God in the New Testament , is no lesse a people in covenant with God , to whom the promises doe belong , and the presence of God working in them , then the people of the Jewes were of old : But it followeth not hence that one part of the Israel of God under the New Testament should separate from the other . What weaknesse is this ? he alludeth to Israels separation from the Nations , which was personall ; therefore we are in person to separate from the true Church for their personall sinnes , when the worship is right .

But m m Robinson 〈◊〉 . pag. 266 , 267. Robinson saith , Papists , Atheists , Idolaters , Anabaptists , and many more , doe worship Jesus , from whose societies notwithstanding you professe separation . 2. The Ismaelites and Edomites doe worship the true God , though not after a true manner , and yet the Israelites were a people separated from them , an Edomite might not beare any publike office among the Jewes to the third generation : yea Israel was commanded to separate from Israel , for a usurpation of the ministery , Num. 16. and upon Jeroboam his defection in the ministery , worship and new devised holy dayes , 2 Chron. 11. 13 , 14 , 15. 1 King . 12. 28 , 29 , 30 , 31 , 32.

Answ. 1. Papists , Anabaptists , Idolaters , are disavowed by us , and from them we separate , because though they professe the true God as Edom did , yet they closely doe evert the fundamentals ; neither we , nor the reformed Churches , in words or by consequence doe evert the fundamentals , and necessary points of salvation , and if the Church of Corinth was not to be separated from , nor Thyatira , where the resurrection was denyed , and false doctrine maintained , you have no reason to parallell us with Papists , Atheists , Anabaptists .

2. No Covenant is made with the one true God , and the Edomites and Ismaelites , but the promises are made to us , and to our children , and to as many as the Lord shall call , by the true Gospell preached , Act. 2. 39.

Robinson . The Apostles ( saith he ) disjoyneth righteousnesse and unrighteousnesse , light and darknesse , as farre asunder , as beleevers ●ag . 271. and unbeleevers , as the Temple of God and Idols , in which former also the union betwixt Christ and Belial , is as monstreus as in the latter : also all unbeleevers are led by the devill , and cannot be the marter of the true Church , and that some persons led by the devill and some not should be the marter of the true Church is unknowne to Scripture .

Answ. 1. In the Text , 2 Cor. 6. Righteousnesse and unrighteousnesse , light and darknesse are as farre asunder as the temple of God and Idols , and as Israel and Edom. I answer in respect of the object materiall of false worship , they cannot morally be united , that is true , beleevers at Corinth worshipping the true God in Christ , cannot be united with such , as in Idols temples are at one and the same Idol worship : and as to marry Christ and Belial , light and darkenesse , is a monster , so it is no lesse morally monstrous , that the true worshippers of God in Corinth , who give themselves out for the servants of God , should be joyned in any Societie with the service of dumbe Idols ; and thus farre Israel and Edom , a servant of God and an Idolater , must separate and part companies , but in respect of the persons they may be united in one visible corporation and Church ; else you may say by this argument , because faith in the eleven Apostles and unbeleefe in Judas , are as contrary as light and darkenesse , Christ and Belial , and as Israels true worship and Edoms false worship , and because the righteousnesse , light and faith of the Apostolick Church . Act. 8. and the unrighteousnesse , darkenesse and unbeleefe of Simon Magus are contrary to others ( as they are as contrary as light and darknesse ) that therefore the eleven Disciples and Judas made not one visible Church and the Apostolick Church , and Simon Magus and others in the gall of bitternesse with him , though baptized and joyned to the Church , did not make up one visible Church ; now since you acknowledge no visible Church , but there be in it beside unbeleevers , though not seene , there is no visible Church of your owne , wherein this monstruous combination of light and darkenesse is not . And so all your Churches are false in their constitution , if there may not be a union of the persons of men led by God , and regenerated , and of Hypocrites led by Satan , and unregenerated ; and these meeting to one and the same true worship , as Judas and the eleven did eate one and the same passeover .

The Scripture ( saith Robinson ) denounceth the same judgement Pag. 272. of God , Ezech. 18. upon him that defileth his neighbours wife as to him who lifteth his eyes to the mountaines and the Idols thereof , and murtherers are excluded out of the heavenly Jerusalem as well as Idolaters , and Matth. 28. We are to esteeme every obstinate offender as a heathen and a Publican , and Paul chargeth the Corinthians to avoyd F●rnicators , &c. 1 Cor. 5. as well as Idolaters , so all carnall men are Idolaters , making their belly their God : and the Apostle to Titus calleth prophane persons unbeleevers or infidels ; Ergo , wee should walke toward the one , as toward the other , that is , separate from them both .

Answ. 1. It is true , God denounceth judgement against leud and unknowne hypocrites , as against worshippers of the Gods of the Zidonians , as your places prove , Ezek. 18. Rev. 22. but your Logick is poore and blind , that you will separate from the true Church , in which there bee secret hypocrites , and so from your owne Churches , as you would separate from the Church of the Zidonians , who worship professedly Baa● , and deny Jehovah to be God , you make arguments without head or foote .

2. Murtherers are excluded out of heaven , and haters of their brethren , who are murtherers from life eternall , 1 Joh. 3. 15. as Idolaters , what then ? Ergo , yee will exclude them out of the visible Church , and separate from them . It is good that you come out with Anabaptists to make these onely of your visible Church , who shall reigne in glory with Christ , and these onely , and all without your visible Church to be firebrands of Hell , as Revel. 22. 15.

3. We are 1 Cor. 5. to avoyd Fornicators , no lesse then Idolaters , true . Ergo , we are to separate from the Church , where there be Fornicators , seeing they make the Church to bee false in its constitution , as we are to separate from a societie of heathen Idolaters who worship a false God : doe you love such consequences ? men not forsaken of mother wit would say , I must separate from Aaron , and the whole Church of Israel , in the act of adoring the golden Calfe , which is indeed a separation from the false worship of the Church , but not separate from the Church ; but would you hence inferre , because God punisheth fornication no lesse then Idolatry , that I am to separate from the Church , and all their persons and societie in the very true worship of God , because some few persons there bee fornicators and carnall ? Surely then Paul did not his dutie , who commanded communion with the Church of Corinth , 1 Cor. 5. wherein there were carnall men , and deniers of the resurrection , and such as for gaine went to the Law , with their brethren , and that before Infidels ; yea because all sinne in the demerit thereof ( except you devise venials ) exclude men out of the new Hierusalem , we must separate from all Churches on earth , for there be none so cleane , but there bee some sinne in it , which excludeth out of the new Hierusalem , as Idolatry doth , though there bee degrees of sinne . But some ignorant ones say the place , 1 Cor. 5. 11. is to be expounded of eating at the Communion Table , or if it bee of familiar eating and drinking , of civill conversing , then much more are wee not to communicate with them at the Lords Table . But not to eate with such a one , is not to keepe intire fellowship with him , as the phrase noteth , Psal. 4. 9. He that eat of my bread hath lift up his b●ele against me . Joh. 13. 18. Psal. 55 13. So doth Chrysostome , The●phylact us , Oecumenius expound this place , Bullinger , contub●●nium & interiorem convictum prohibet ; So Calvin , Peter Martyr , B●za , Piscator , Pareus ; So Erasmus and Aquinas , Haymo , Gagneius . Nor is all eating whatsoever with Heathen persons forbidden , Paul practised the contrary , Act. 13. 14. 5. 6. Act. 14. 8. 9. Act. 17. 16 , 17. Act. 27. 34 , 35 , 36. Act. 28. 11 , 12. 1 Cor. 10. 27.

2. The wife is not to separate , a toro & mensa , from the excommunicated husband , nor the sonne from the excommunicated father , no positive Law can cancell the Law of nature , nor can hence bee concluded that it is unlawfull to keepe any Church communion with these , or to separate from the communion , though they be at the Table . 1. Because such eate damnation to themselves , not to others . 2. Because no private person can separate , for the Churches sinne , if the man be not convicted ; And lastly , here is to bee observed , that if the Church be not in its right constitution , that is , as Mr. Robinson Pag. 273. teacheth us , if it be not a people in whose hearts the Lord ●●th written his covenant , wee are to separate from it ; so as if one be found to be a non-converted , though not scandalous , he must be excommunicated for non-conversion , never breaking out in scandalls , a thing contrary to the Word of God , as I have proved already .

Mr. Robinson objecteth , Act. 2. 40. Save your selfe from this untoward generation . Ans. That is , from the malicious Jewes who deny Pag. 267. Christ to be the Messiah . But what is this to separate from the true Church , professing Christ ?

But Robinson saith , You deny visibly God , and his Sonne Christ . Answ. 1. Such as are thus scandalous are to be cast out .

2. If the Church neglect to cast them out , we are not to cast out and excommunicate the Church by separating from them , no more then the godly forsooke the Church of the Jewes , where there were many scandalous persons .

3. There be great oddes betwixt a froward generation professedly denying Christ to bee come in the flesh , as the Jewes , Act. 2. ( and from such a Church wee are to separate totally ; ) and betwixt a Church where there bee many wicked persons , who in their life and conversation deny Christ , and yet doe beleeve soundly or orthodoxly the fundamentall points of salvation , and hold in profession the orthodox faith : for though wee are to separate from the bad conversation of such a generation , yet are we not to separate from the Church-worship , and Church-societie of such a generation : therefore Paul might well break off communion with the Church of the Jewes , whereof he was once a member , because after Christs death , ascension , and the Gospell was preached , it now became a fundamentall point of salvation , simply necessary to bee beleeved by all ( That the Sonne of Mary was the Messiah ) which because the Jewes maliciously denyed , they left off to be a Church ; but a scandalous life in many of the professors , is not for that any ground to separate from the visible Church , professing such fundamentall points .

Robinson saith from Job . 17. 6. 7. 9. Where the Church is said to 〈◊〉 . of separation . pag. 269. be given to Christ , and chosen out of the world , it is cleare that the true visible Church is gathered , by separation from the world .

But I answer , to be given to Christ and chosen out of the world is meant onely of the elect and invisible Church . But Arminians , Pelagians , and old Anabaptists expound it of the visible Church , that they may make Judas , whom they alledge was chosen out of the world , no lesse then Peter , an example of their universall election , and of the small apostasie , of the truly elected and regenerated . And you have to side with you in this the Apostate a a Pet●●s Bert●u● de ap●st●●a Sanct ru●n , pag. 21. 22. Peter Bertius , b b Coll●cut . Hagiensi● , pag. 414 〈…〉 illud ●ean 17 Qu●● dedisti ●ihi 〈◊〉 cust●divi . Respondent resutari c●nfecutione ( ●de 〈◊〉 possibil●●ate ●p●st 〈◊〉 ) ver●is illis 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . the Arminians at Hage , c c Armin. 〈◊〉 . pag 22● . Arminius himselfe , the Socinians , as d d Socinus pr●●ect . Theol●g . cap. 12 pag. 46 55 , 56 cap. 13 pag 61. Socinus , e e Theoph. Ni●●laid . 〈◊〉 . 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 . cap. 3. pag. 26. & cap. 4 pag. 67 , 68. Theoph. 〈◊〉 ; and you may see your selves refuted by Amesius f f Amesius in 〈◊〉 art 5. cap. 5. fuse pag. 456 , 457. refuting the Arminians in the conference at Hage : and this you expressely say with Arminians and Socinians . 1. Because , ( as you say ) Judas was one of them , whom the Father had given to Christ out of the world , whom alone of all them so given to him , he hath losed ; Ergo , Christ speaketh of a visible donation .

Answ. The Antecedent is false , Joh. 6. 37. All that the Father had given me , commeth unto me , and him that commeth unto me I will in no wayes cast out , v. 39. And this is the Fathers will which ●●th sent me , that of all which he hath given me , I should lose nothing , but should raise it up at the last day . But Judas was cast out and losed , and is not raised up at the last day , as one which commeth , that is , beleeveth in Christ .

2. This is the very exception of the Arminians , and Amesius answereth , quae Scriptura manifesto est judicio Iudam non it a Christo datum & commendatum fuisse a Patre ut ●aeteros .

Christ ( saith Robinson ) speaketh of such persons as the world hated , because they were not of the world , Job . 15. 14. But the wicked world 〈◊〉 not hate men , as they are elected before God , and invisibly or inwardly separated , ●ut as they are outwardly separated , whether they bee inwardly so or not .

Answ. 1. Invisible election and the contrary spirit that the children of God are led by , which is most unlike to the spirit that leadeth the world , is the true ground and cause why the world doth hate them ; and this choosing out of the world , is seene and made visible by the fruits of the spirit to the wicked world , but the consequence is nothing , he speaketh of election that is visible or made visible , yet not as visible for often Paul t●●rmeth the visible Churches , Saints , Temples , of the holy Spirit , the sonnes and daughters of the living God , and when he tearmeth them such , he speaketh to , and of a visible Church , yet not as visible , because to be the temple of the holy Spirit , and a sonne and daughter of the living God , is a thing formally , and properly invisible : for faith and the spirit of adoptien are not things visible or obvious to the senses , but Separatis●s are often deceived with this , hee speaketh to the visible Saints , Ergo , he speaketh to them as visible Saints , this is the vaine collection of ignorant Anabaptists ; Paul writeth to the visible Church , but every priviledge that hee doth ascribe to them doth not agree to them , as they are visible . He saith to the visible Church of Colossians , ch . 3. v. 3. your life is hid with Christ in God , an unvisible life cannot agree to the Colossians , as they are a visible Church , so separation from the world made manifest and visible is the cause why the world hateth the children of God , yet that separation is formally invisible and not seene to the eye of men , for it is an action of God to choose men out of the world , and no eye mortall can see his actions , as they be such . And therefore except Robinson prove that this choosing out of the world is common to elect and reprobate , and to be seene in Peter and Iudas , he bringeth nothing against us to prove his point , but hee plainly contradicteth his owne tenents ; for in his first reason , he will have the true Church separated from the world , as Iudas the traytor was separated from the world , which we grant that is separation in show , and in profession , and so maketh his visible Church to be made up of traytors and hypocrites , who cannot bee the Spouse of Christ , nor a part of Christ his mysticall body , and his redeemed flocke . Now hee still harpeth on this , that the visible Church rightly constitute is the Spouse of Christ , the redeemed of God , the mysticall body of Christ , and so hee contradicteth himselfe , and saith with us that there bee no visible separation from the world , essentiall to such a Church as they dreame of , to wit , of called Saints , Temples of the holy Spirit , &c. and therefore never one of that side understood to this day the nature of a true visible Church , though they talke and write much of it ; for the truth is , the essence and definition of a Church agreeeth not equally to a true Church and a visible Church , yea a visible Church as it is visible is not formally a true Church , but the redeemed Church onely is the true Church .

Lastly , He speaketh ( saith he ) of such a choosing out of the world as he doth of sending unto the world , v. 18. Which sending as it was visible and externall , so was the selection and separation spoken of .

Answ. The choosing out of the world is not opposed to sending unto the world , for sending unto the world is an Apostolick sending common to Judas with the rest , whereby they were sent to preach the Gospell to the world , of chosen and unchosen , of elect and reprobate , but to bee chosen out of the world , and given to Christ , is proper to the elect onely , who are chosen out of the loosed and reprobate world .

2. It is also false that the sending of the Apostles is altogether visible , for the gifting of them with the holy Spirit is a great part of sending the Apostles , as our brethren say , a gifted man is a sent Prophet ; but the Lord his gifting of the Apostle is not visible .

You cannot ( saith Robinson ) be partaker of the Lords Table and of devills . Ergo , we must separate from the ungodly . Pag. 77●●

Answ. The Table of Idols is that Table of devils and of false worship kindly in respect of the object that wee must separate from , but a scandalous person at the Lords Supper partaketh of the Table of devils by accident , in respect the person being out of Christ eateth damnation to himselfe , but it is not per se and kindly , the Table of devils to others , and therefore I must not separate from it ; The Supper was to Judas the devils Table , because Satan entered in him with a sup , to cause him to betray the Lord ; and Christ told before , one of them twelve had a devill , and so to one of the twelve the Supper was the devils Table , yet could not the Disciples separate therefrom .

Further he objecteth , Paul condemned the Church of Corinth as kn●●ed lumpe , and as contrary to the right constitution , finding so many aberrations and defections from that state , wherein they were gathered unto a Church ; who dare open so prophane a mouth as to affirme , that this faithfull labourer would plant the Lords v●neyard with such impes , or gather unto the Church flagitious persons , drunkards , i●●es●tous persons , or such as denied the resurrection ?

Answ. 1. Paul never insinuateth in one letter , that these wicked persons , marred the constitution and matter of the visible Church , but onely that they marred the constitution of the invisible Church , that being bought with a price , they should give their bodies to harlotry , and that in denying the resurrection they denyed the Scriptures , and turned Epicures , who said , Let us ●a●e and drinke , for to morrow we shall die ; but there is nothing to insinuate separation from the Church , as false in the constitution .

2. Paul doth not plant wicked men as impes in the Lords Vineyard , they plant themselves in the roome of true members of the Church invisible , and as the redeemed of God , when they are not so indeed , and this sort of planting is given improperly to the pastors . But if you understand by planting , the casting out of the draw-net of the word of the kingdome preached , and the inviting of as many to come in as the Pastors doe finde , Matth. 22. 9. 10. even good and bad ; this way it is the mouth of truth , and not a prophane mouth , that Pastors invite professors to come in , and bee members of the visible Church , though their act of inviting have no kindly influence in the hypocrisie of their profession who are invited . To professe the truth is good and laudable , and to deny it before men , damnable , and to invite men to this profession of the truth , is good and laudable also . And wisedome sendeth out her maidens , and by them inviteth simple ones and fooles to professe the truth , and to come to the visible Church , Prov. 9. 4. Prov. 1. 20 , 21. but Pastors doe not plant drunkards , and flagitious persons in the visible Church , but the Apostolike Church calling to her communion Simon Magus , Act. 8. but doth not plant them as hypocrites , but as externall professors . Coachman Cry of the stone . pag. 5.

Mr. Coachman saith , It is no wrong to leave the carnal multitude , as it was no hurt to Jehosaphat , when Elisha in his presence protested against Joram , as one , betwixt whom and God hee would not intercede .

Answ. Put case Jehosaphat be a Church visible worshipping God aright , you wrong his societie , if you leave the shepheards tents , where Christ feedeth amongst the Lilies till the day breake , because there bee foxes in these tents and wicked persons . Is it not ( saith he ) sweeter to converse with the Godly , then with the ungodly ? Is not the presence of faithfull Christians sweeter , when one commeth to powre out his prayers , and offer his oblation , then the society of carnall men ?

Answ. This will prove it is lawfull to separate from Pharisees preaching the truth in Moses his chaire , the contrary whereof you were , Sect. 4. Pag. 10. because it is sweeter to heare the word with the Godly , then with the ungodly .

We have not found ( saith Coachman ) the honorable name of Christians or godly men given to liars , swearers , &c. no comfort , no priviledges belong to them in that state , it belongeth not unto them , but unto us to build the house of the Lord , Ezra 4. 3.

Answer . Yea , God bestoweth the priviledges of externall calling unto good and bad , even to those who preferre their lusts to Christ , Matth. 22. 9. Luk. 14. 17 , 18 , 19.

2. The place of Ezra is corrupted , for those were the open adversaries of Judah and Benjamin , v. 1. and were not the Church at all .

3. Onely Pastors are publicke and authoritative builders of the Church , not private Christians .

The wicked ( saith he ) have the things of this life above the godly , Ergo they should not be invested in the highest prerogatives above the godly : also it is a presumption to say to any carnall man , This is the body of the Lord , that was given for thee .

Answer . It is the cry of a stone to reason thus , this argument is as much against Gods providence as against us , for God sendeth to Capernaum and Bethsaida , the priviledge of Christs presence , in preaching the Gospel , and working miracles , yet they are an unworthy people .

2. Pastors of the separation give the body of Christ to lurking Hypocrites , are they not herein presumptuous also ?

They object , To live in the want of any of Gods ordinances is not lawfull , as Matth. 28. 20. 2 Chron. 30. 8. Cant. 1. 7. 8. so saith Robinson . A man is not onely bound in his place to admonish Iustif. p. 201. his neighbour , but also to see his place be such , as be may admonish his brother ; a calling absolutely tying a man to the breach of any of Gods Commandements , is unlawfull and to be forsaken .

Answ. Seeing affirmative precepts tye not ad semper , and Christian prudence is to direct us here ; there be some in Church communion whom we cannot without palpable inconveniences rebuke : The Ministers of New-England in their answer to the n● question , say , such as are not free ( servants or sonnes ) may stay in paroch Assemblies in Old England , so as they partake of no corruptions , and live not in the want of any ordinances ( they meane wanting the Lords Supper ) through their default ; now to separate from the Lords Supper , because of the wickednesse of the fellow-worshippers is their default , which is against Robinson , yet we see not how masters or fathers should separate from Christs true Church more then servants or sonnes .

2. Not to admonish , in some cases , is not a breach of a Commandement , nor living besides scandalous persons in a Church , or for any to abstaine from the seales because such be in the Church , except we would goe out of the world , for Robinson presseth alwayes personall separation , no lesse then Church separation .

Robinson . There is the same proportion of one member sinning , of a few , of many , of a whole Church : now if one brother sinne and will not be reclaimed , he is no longer to be reputed a brother , but a heathen : Ergo , so are we to deale with a Church though there be a different order , the multitude of sinners doe no wayes extenuate the sinne .

Answ. 1. Then may a whole Church by this reason be excommunicated , which our brethren deny .

2. There is the same proportion to be kept when one sinneth , and when a whole Church sinneth , but by observing due order ; one may admonish a private brother , but not any one , or many private persons , may admonish and proceed after our Saviours order , against a whole Church in a Church way , in respect they are still inferiour to a whole Church : sister Churches and Synods are to keepe this order with one particular Church , that is incorrigible , for private persons have relation of brotherhood to private persons , and the relation is private , and Churches have Church relation to Churches , and the relation is publike ; Nor are whole Churches to be excommunicated , while God first remove the Candlesticke , as we see in Rome , and the seven Churches in Asia .

2. It is considerable , 1. If the whole Church be obstinate and incorrigible , or some few , or the most part .

2. If the sinnes be against the worship of God , as idolatry , or sinnes of a wicked conversation , the worship of God remaining pure , and sound , at least in professed fundamentals .

3. If the idolatry be essentiall idolatry , as the adoring of the worke of mens hands , or onely idolatry by participation , as Popish ceremonies , the Surplice , and Crosse , being as meanes of worship , but not adored , and so being Idols by participation ; as a a Amesius his fresh suite against Ceremonics . Amesius and b b 10. Ball his Answer to M. Cann . par. 2. pag. 23. M. Ball doe well distinguish , and before them , so doth the learned c c Reynold de Idololatria lib. 2. cap. 2. Reynold , and d d Bilson of Chri. Ar. Subject . part 4. pag. 321 , 322. Bilson make use of the distinction .

4. All lenity must be used against a Church , if not more lenity , then we use in proceeding against single persons .

5. Divers degrees of separation are to be considered : hence these considerations ,

1. There is a separation Negative , or a non-union , and a separation Positive . Though a Church of Schismaticks retaining the sound faith , yet separating from other , be deserted by any , it is a Negative separation from ● true Church , and laudable : as the faithfull , in Augustins time , did well in separating from the Donatists , for with them they were never one , in that faction , though they separated not from the true faith holden by Donatists , but kept a Positive union with them ; so doe all the faithfull well to separate from the Churches of the Separatists .

2. If the whole and most part of the Church turne idolatrous , and worship Idols , ( which is essentiall idolatry ) we are to separate from that Church : the Levites and the two Tribes did well , as e e Ball lo● ci● , Mr. Ball saith , to make a separation from Jero●oams Calves ; and the godly laudably , 2 King . 16. 11. did not separate from the Israel , and Church of God , because the Altar of Damascus was set up , and because of the high places . Things dedicated unto Idols , as Lutheran Images , may be called , and are called 1 Cor. 10. 34. idolatry , yet are they idolatry by participation , and so the Cup of Devils , 1 Cor. 10. Paul doth not command separation from the Church of Corinth , and the Table of the Lord there .

3. Consideration . There is a separation from the Church in the most part , or from the Church in the least and best part . In Achabs time Israel , and the Church thereof , for the most part , worshipped Baal ; Elias , Micaja● , Obadiah , and other godly separated from the Church of Israel in the most part : Jeremiah wished to have a Cottage in the Wildernesse ( no doubt a godly wish ) that he might separate from the Church all then for the most part corrupted , yet remained they a part of the visible Church and a part in the visible Church , and therefore did he not separate from the Church according to the least and best part thereof ; The godly in England who refused the Popish ceremonies , and Antichristian Bishops , did well not to separate from the visible Church in England , and yet they separated from the mainest and worst part , which cannot be denied to be a ministeriall Church .

4. Considerat . If a Church be incorrigible in a wicked conversation , and yet retaine the true faith of Christ , it is presumed God hath there some to be saved , and that where Christs ordinances be , there also where Christs ordinances be , there also Christs Church presence is ; And therefore I doubt much if the Church should be separated from , for the case is not here as with one simple person , for it is cleare , all are not involved in that incorrigible obstinacy , & that is yet a true visible communion , in which we are to remaine , for there is some union with the head Christ , where the faith is kept sound , and that visibly ; though a private brother remaining sound in the faith , yet being scandalous and obstinately flagitious be to be cast off , as an Heathen , yet are we not to deale so with an orthodox Church , where most part are scandalous .

5. Considerat . I see not , but we may separate from the Lords Supper , where bread is adored , and from baptisme where the signe of the Crosse is added to Christs ordinances , and yet are we not separated from the Church , for we professedly heare the word , and visibly allow truth of the doctrine maintained by that Church , which doe pollute the Sacraments , and we are ready to seale it with our bloud , and it is an act of visible profession of a Church , to suffer for the doctrine mentioned by that Church .

6. We may well hold that f f Ambros. commen . in Luc. Lib. 6. cap. 1. Signa est ecclesia quae fidem respuat , nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat , ne quālabē perfidiae possit aspergere , deserenda est . Ambrose saith well , that a Church wanting the foundation of the Apostles , is to be forsaken .

7. There is a forced separation through Tyranny from personall communion , and a voluntary separation ; David was forced to leave Israel , and was cast out of the Inheritance of the Lord ; the former is not our sinne , and our separation from Rome hath something of the former , the latter would be wisely considered .

8. There may be causes of non-union with a Church , which are not sufficient causes of separation : Paul would not separate from the Church of the Jewes , though they rejected Christ , till they openly blasphemed , Act. 13. 44 , 45 , 46. Act. 18. 16. And when they opposed themselves and blasphemed , Paul shooke his ●ayment and said unto them , Your blood be upon your owne heads , I am cleane , from henceforth I will goe to the Gentiles . There is a lawfull separation , and yet before the Jewes came to this , there was no just cause , why any should have joyned to the Church of the Jewes , who denyed the Messiah , and persecuted his Servants , Act. 4. Act. 5. seeing there was a cleaner Church , to which Converts might joyne themselves , Act. 2. 40 , 41 42.

9. There is no just cause to leave a lesse cleane Church ( if it be a true Church ) and to goe to a purer and cleaner , though one who is a Member of no Church , have liberty of election , to joyne to that Church , which he conceiveth to be purest and cleanest .

10. When the greatest part of a Church maketh defection from the Truth , the lesser part remaining sound , the greatest part is the Church of Separatists , though the maniest and greatest part in the actuall exercise of Discipline be the Church ; yet in the case of right Discipline , the best though sewest , is the Church ; for truth is like life , that retireth from the maniest members unto the heart , and there remaineth in its fountaine , in case of danger .

CHAP. 4. SECT. 6.

The way of the Churches of Christ in New England .

IN this Section the Reverend Author disputeth against the Baptizing of Infants of unbeleeving , or excommunicated neareit

The way of the Churches of Christ in New England .

Chap. 4. Sect. 6.

Parents , of which I have spoken in my former Treatise : Onely here I vindicate , our Doctrine . And first the Authour is pressed with this , the excommunicated persons want indeed the free passage of life , and vertue of the Spirit of Jesus , till they be tuitched with repentance , yet they are not wholly cut off from the society of the faithfull , because the seed of faith remaineth in them , and that knitteth them in a bond of conjunction with Christ . The Authour answereth , It is true , such excommunicates , as are truely faithfull , remaine in Covenant with God , because the seed of faith remaineth in them , yet to the society of the faithfull joyned in a particular visible Church , they are not knit , but wholly cut off from their communion , for it is not the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe , that knitteth a man to this , or that particular Church , but a holy profession of the Faith , which when a man hath violated by a grievous sinne , and is delivered to Satan , he is now , not as a dead palsie-member , cut off from the body , though bee may remaine a member of the invisible Church of the first borne , yet he hath neither part , nor portion , nor fellowship in the particular visible Church of Christ Jesus , but is as an heathen and a publican : now Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church , nor the members thereof , as such , but to the visible particular Churches of Jesus Christ , and therefore we dare no more baptize his childe , than the childe of an heathen .

I Answer , First , if Faith remaine in some excommunicated person , ( as you grant ) it must be seene in a profession , for though for some particular scandall , the man be excommunicated , yet is he not cut off ( as we now suppone ) for universall apostasie from the truth to Gentilisine , or Judaisme , for then he should be cursed with the great excommunication , 1 Cor. 16. v. 22. and so though he be to the Church as a heathen , in that act , yet is he not to the visible Church an heathen , but a brother , and to be admonished as a brother , 2 Thess. 3. 15. and the Church is to use excommunication as a medicine , with intention to save his Spirit in the day of the Lord , 1 Cor. 5. 4 , 5. 1 Tim. 1. 20. an excommunicated apostate is not so : now if hee retaine faith to the Churches decerning , he retaineth the profession of Faith , and in so farre a visible membership , with the Church in the Covenant ; Ergo , for that professed Faith , by our brethrens grant , his childe should be baptized , and so is not wholly cut off , but is as a dead palsie member of the Church , and so as a member , though in a deliquie , and Lethargie .

2. You say to the faithfull of a particular Church , the excommunicate is wholly cut off : What doe you meane ? if his sinnes be bound in heaven , ( as they are , if he justly be excommunicated ) is he not also cut off , to all the visible Churches on earth● are not all the Churches to repute him as a publican and a heathen ? I beleeve they are , but you deny in this all visible communion of Chur●hes .

3. You say , it is not the seede of Faith that knitteth a man to a particular visible Church , but an holy profession . But in the excommunicate person , ( if the seede of faith remaine as you grant ) this faith must be seene , by you , in a holy profession , else to you , he hath no seed of faith ; and if his profession of faith remaine intire , though it bee violated in the particular obstinate , remaining in one scandall , for the which he is excommunicated , you have no reason to say , that to the particular Church , hee is wholly cut off , since his profession remaineth .

4. You say , It is not the seed of faith , nor faith it selfe that knitteth a man to this or that particular visible Church , but a holy profession of faith . Then I say , one may be knit to a particular visible Church , and a true member thereof , though he want both the seed of Faith , and Faith it selfe . I prove the connexion . A man is a perfect and true member of a Church , though he want that which doth not knit him to the Church , this is undenyable : But without the seed of Faith or Faith it selfe , ( as you say ) hee is knit to the true Church : Ergo. But this is contrary to your Doctrine , who require , chap. 3. sect. 3. that none must bee admitted members of a visible Church , but those who are Christ his body , the habitation of God by the Spirit , the Temples of the Holy Ghost , &c. And that no● onely by external● profession , but in some measure of sincerity and Truth . Now consider my Reverend Brethren , if there bee a measure of sincerity and Truth , where there is neither the seed of Faith , nor Faith it selfe : and surely by this you cast downe and marre the constitution of your visible Church , when you exclude from the members thereof , the seed of Faith , and Faith it selfe ; and you come to our hand , and teach , that the seed of Faith , and Faith it selfe , is accidentall to a visible Church as visible , which wee also teach : and so there is no measure of truth and sincerity required to the essentiall constitution of a visible Church .

5. But I would gladly learne how you contra-distinguish these two , Faith , and a holy profession of Faith ? Doe you imagin that there can be a holy profession knitting a man to the visible Church , where there be neither the seed of Faith , nor Faith it selfe ? It is Arminian holinesse , which is destitute of Faith , but if you meane by a holy profession , a profession conceived to be holy , though it be not so indeed , then you doe yet badly contradivide a holy profession from faith , for before any can be knit as a member to the visible Church , you are to conceive him to be a Saint , a Beleever , and so to have both the seed of Faith , and Faith it selfe , though indeed he have neither of the two , and so Faith is as wel that which knitteth a man as a member to the visible Church , as holinesse .

6. If he remaine a member of the universall Church of the first borne , is hee therefore so as a heathen , and so that you dare no more receive him to the Supper , nor his seed to baptisme , nor you dare receive a heathen , and his seed to the Seales of the Covenant ? is a heathen a member of the invisible Church of the first borne ? but the excommunicated you presume is such a one .

7. What warrant have you for this Doctrine , That the Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church , as it is such , but to the visible ? Certainely , God ordaineth the Sacraments to the beleevers as beleevers , and because they are within the Covenant , and their interest in the Covenant , is the onely true right of interest to the Seales of the Covenant , profession doth but declare who beleeve and who beleeve not , and consequently , who have right to the Seales of the Covenant , and who not , but profession doth not make right , but declareth who have right .

The Author subjoyneth , Christ giveth no due right unto baptisme to the child , but by the Fathers right unto the Covenant and communion of the Church , so by taking away right unto the Covenant and Communion of the Church from the Father , he taketh away the childrens right also , the personall sinne of the parent in this case is not a meere private personall sinne , but the sinne of a publike person of his family : for as his profession of his faith at his receiving unto the Church , was as the profession of a publike person receiving him and his children , who could make no profession but by his mouth unto the Church , so his violation of his profession by a scandalous cri●● , was as a publike violation thereof for himself and his seed , who stand or fall before the Church in his name and his person .

Answ. 1. It is true , Christ giveth right to baptisme to the child , by the Fathers right . I distinguish that , by the nearest father onely I deny , by the right of fathers in generall , true ; but then it will follow , that no infant is to be debarred from baptisme for the sinnes of his nearest parents , for if these who are descended of Abraham and David , many generations upward from them , were within the Covenant , and so had right to circumcision , for the Covenant made with David and Abraham , and the nearest fathers sinne is not the cause of taking away the right to the Covenant from the child , and right to the Church Communion .

2. I much doubt if the child have right to the seales of the Covenant , for the faith of the father , and so I deny that hee loseth right to the seales of the Covenant for the fathers scandalous crime , which is a violation of the Covenant . I doe reverence grave and learned divines , who speake so ; a a Oecolampadius in Epist. Oecolampadius , and b b Zuinglius lib. 2. pag. 301 , 302. Zuinglius say that Infants are sanctified by their parents faith ; but I conceive they take the word faith objectively , for the doctrine of faith profeffed by the father , and not subjectively . But I think that great Divine c c Beza quaest. & ●esp lib 126. Nequaqu●n tamen facile dixc●●m , quempiam aliena fide servari , nequis hoc peri●de accipiat , ac si d x●rim , parentum fidem imputari infantibus , quasi aliena side credentibus ; quod quidem non minus falsum & absurdum fuerit , quam si dixerim , quempiam posse aliena anima vivere , aut alterius sapientia sapere . Beza saith well , that no man is saved by another mans faith , nor can the parents faith be imputed to the children , which is no lesse absurd , nor to say that one man liveth by the soule and life of another man , and that he is wise by the wisedome of another man : how then are Infants within the Covenant for their parents ?

I answer , for the faith of their fathers , that is , for the Covenant of their fathers they have right to baptisme , for that I will be thy God , and the God of thy seed , Galat. 3. 8. comprehendeth all the beleeving Gentiles . And for this cause the children of Papists and excommunicate protestants which are borne within our visible Church are baptized , if their forefathers have beene found in the faith ; and I thinke the reason is given by d d Doct. Morton his appeale , lib. 4. cap. 6. sect. 1. pag. 464. Doctor Morton , who saith , The children of all Papists , Anabaptists , or other Hereticks , are to be distinguished from the children of Turkes and Pagans , because the Parents of Papists and Anabaptists have once beene dedicated to Christ in baptisme , and the child ( saith he ) hath onely interest in that part of the Covenant , which is sound and Catholike , while as the parents themselves stand guiltie of heresie , which by their owne proper and actuall consent , they have added unto the Church .

And I thinke the Scripture saith here with us , that the nearest parents be not the onely conveyers and propagators of federall holinesse to the posteritie , Psal. 106. 35. They were mingled with the heathen and learned their workes , 36. and they served their Idols , &c. 44. Neverthelesse he regarded their affliction , 45. and he remembred , for them , his covenant . What Covenant ? His Covenant made with Abraham , and yet their nearest fathers sinned , v. 6. We have sinned and our fathers , v. 7. Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt , they remembred not the multitude of thy mercies , but provoked him at the Sea , even at the red Sea , v. 8. Neverthelesse be saved them for his names sake . His name was the glory of the Covenant made with Abraham , by which his name and truth , by promise was ingaged , Esa. 63. 10. But they rebelled and vexed his holy Spirit , therefore hee was turned to bee their enemy , and hee fought against them , v. 11. Then he remembred the dayes of old , Moses and his people , saying , Where is he that led them , and brought them out of the red Sea ? So also Esay 51. 1 , 2 , 3. and most evidently , Ezek. 20. 8. They rebelled against me , &c. But I wrought for my names sake , that it should not be polluted before the heathen , among whom they were , in whose sight I made my selfe knowne unto them , in bringing them forth out of the land of Egypt .

Now this name is to be expounded his Covenant , Jerem. 31. 32. which he made with them , when hee brought them out of the land of Egypt , which Covenant is extended unto the Christian Church , Heb. 8. 8. 9 , 10. Now if God gave right unto the sonnes of the Jewes , I meane federall right , to temporall deliverance , and the meanes of grace , for the Covenant made with Abraham , though their nearest parents rebelled against the Lord , that same Covenant in all the priviledges thereof indureth yet , yea and is made to all the Gentiles , ●al . 3. 8. Heb. 8. 8 , 9 , 10. for it is the covenant nationall made with the whole race , not with the sonnes upon the condition of the nearest parents saith , as is cleare after Christs ascension unto heaven , Act. 2. 39. For the promise is to you and to your children , and to all that are afarre off , even to as many as the Lord our God shall call . Now it is cleare that their fathers killed the Prophets , Matth. 23. 30 , 31 , 32 , 33 , 34 , 35. they were a wicked generation under blood , v. 37.

2. It is cleare that these externally , and in a federall and Church profession have right ecclesiastick to the Covenant , to whom the externall calling of the preached Gospell doth belong , while he saith the promise ( of the Covenant ) is made to as many as the Lord our God shall call , so the called nation , though the nearest parents have killed the Prophets , and rejected the calling of God , Matth. 23. 33. 34. 37. is the nation which have externall and Church-right to the promises and Covenant , and Rom. 11. 28. As concerning the Gospell they are enemies for your sake , but as touching the election they are beloved for the fathers sake : now their nearest fathers maliciously opposed the Gospell , therefore it must be for the election of the holy nation , in which respect , the nation of the Jewes , v. 16. was a holy seed , and a holy root , and the children were also the holy branches , holy with the holinesse of the Covenant ; and Joshua had no reason to circumcise the people at Gilgal , for the holinesse of their nearest parents , whose earcasses fell in the wildernesse , yet he circumcised them , to take away the reproach of his people ; now this reproach was uncircumcision in the flesh , the reproach of the Philistims , ( so Goliah is called an uncircumcised Philistim ) and of all the nations without the Covenant of God : yea by this there were no reason to circumcise the sonnes of Achab and Jezabel , whose nearest parents were slaves to Idolatry , and who were bloody persecutors of the Prophets ; nor was there reason to circumcise Jeroboams sonne , in whom there was some good , for both father and mother were wicked Apostates : and very often , by this doctrine , should the people of the Jewes leave off to be the visible Church , and so the promise of the Covenant should faile in the line from Abraham to David , and from David to Christ ; even so oft as the nearest parents did evill in the sight of the Lord ; and many times should God have cast off his people whom be foreknew ; contrary to that which Paul saith , Rom. 11. 1 , 2 , 3. To these I adde , if the infants of the Christian Church have onely right to baptisme , through the faith of the nearest parents onely , then is this to be conceived either to bee true and saving faith , in the nearest parents , or onely faith in profession : if you say the former , then 1. The seed of the excommunicated parents , in whom is faith , or the seed thereof is to be baptized , the contrary , of which you affirme .

2. Then the seed and Infants of no Parents , but of such only as are members of the invisible Church of the first borne , are to be baptized , the contrary whereof you teach , while you say , The Sacraments are not given to the invisible Church , and the members thereof , but to the visible particular Churches .

3. The Infants of the unbeleeving parents , though members of the visible Church , have no right to baptisme , and the Covenant , though they be the elect of God , and borne within the visible Church , which is admirable to us , now it is knowne that Hypocrites and unbeleeving parents have often such a luster of a greene and fairelike profession , as that they goe for visible members of the Church , so as their children are by Christs warrant and right baptized . I come to the other point , if the faith of nearest parents , onely true in profession and show before men , give right to their Infants to bee sealed with the seales of the Covenant : Then 1. apparent and bypocriticall faith conferreth true right to the seales to Infants , and there is not required ( as the author saith Chap. 3. Sect. 3. ) that the members of the visible Church be the called of God , the sonnes and daughters of the Lord God Almighty , not onely in externall Chap. 3. Sect. 3. profession , but also in some measure of sinceritie and truth .

2. God hath warranted his Church to put his seale upon a falsehood , and to conferre the seales upon Infants , for the externall profession of faith , where there is no faith at all , this your writers thinke inconvenient and absurd .

Also it is objected by us , that excommunicates children are in no better case by this doctrine , then the children of Turkes and Infidels .

The Author answereth . We willingly ( saith he ) put a difference ; excommunicates are nearer to helpes , and meanes of salvation and conversion , then Turkes , 1 Cor. 5. 5. because excommunication it selfe is a meane that the spirit may be saved : and Turkes are nearer then Apostates , who turne enemies to the truth , for better never have knowne the way of truth , then to turne backe . But in this they agree , they are all of them as Heathen , Matth. 18. and therefore neither parents nor children have right to the seales .

Answ. This is not an answer , for the Infants of excommunicates , though they be the seed of ancestors , as grandfathers , who were true beleevers , yet as infants and dying in Infancy , are no lesse without the Covenant , and excluded from the seales thereof , by you then the Infants of Turkes .

2. The Infants of nearest parents in the Jewish Church , though wicked , were not excluded from circumcision , nor were they in the case of the Infants of the prophane heathen ; and the same covenant made to the Jewes and their seed , is made to us , and to our seed , Gal. 3. 8. Heb. 8. 9. 10. Rom. 11. 27. 28. Act. 2. 38 , 39. We also affirme , that the Lord extendeth the mercy of the Covenant to a thousand generations , and therefore the line 2. Commandement , Exod. 20. of the covenant-mercy is not broken off , for the unbeleefe of the nearest parents . Our Author answereth .

Is the extension of Gods mercy to a thousand generations be a sufficient ground to extend baptisme to the Children of excommunicates in the right of their ancestors , it may suffice as well to the children of Turkes and Insidels , and Apostates , for it is not above sixty and six generations from Noah to Christ , as is plaine in the Genealogie , Luk. 3. 13. and there have not passed as many more generations from Christs time Answers to the 32. questions sent from Old England to New England . to the Turkes , and Infidels of the present age . And all will not amount ( say they in their answers ) to the summe of two hundred generations . The true meaning is , that God out of his abundant and rich mercy may and doth extend thoughts of redeeming and converting mercy and grace unto thousand generations , but he never allowes his Church any warrant to receive unto their Covenant and communion the children of godly parents , who lived a thousand yeares agoe , much lesse a thousand generations ; nay rather the Text is plaine , 1 Cor. 7. 14. that the holinesse of the children depends upon the next immediat parents , to wit , upon such faith as denominateth them beleevers in opposition to Pagans and Infidels , and that holinesse to the children is called federall , which receiveth them unto the Covenant and seales thereof .

Answ. 1. We stand not on the number of a thousand precisely , nor doth the holy Ghost intend that , for as it is usuall in Scripture , a a a

1 Sam 1. 8.

Revel. 1. 4.

Psal. 12. 6.

Prov. 24. 16. 25.

Esay 4. 1.

Cant. 5. 10.

1 Cor. 14. 19.

Deut. 33. 17.

Psal. 3. 6.

Micah 6. 7.

definite number is put for an indefinite : Wrath followeth the Ammonite and Moabite to the tenth generation , Deut. 23. 2 , 3. and the Edomite and Egyptian though cursed , entereth into the Congregation of the Lord , the third generation , v. 7. 8. The Lord here walketh in a latitude , yet so as the mercy of the Covenant is extended to more generations , a thousand for foure , beyond the anger of God to the generation of the wicked ; nor doth the Authors consequence stand good , that then wee had right and warrant to baptize the children of Turkes , Pagans and Indians , ( as for one single Apostate , I account him as one single excommunicate Christian in this point ) because the Lords comparison of proportion holdeth in generations of the same kind , and is restricted to the generations within the visible Church , sheweth mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keepe my Commandements , which must be extended to professed love of a nation that is federally holy . Now Turkes and Indians are neither lovers of God , nor in profession , through federall holinesse such ; and it is most pregnant against such as confine and imprison the mercy of the Covenant towards poore Infants , to their next immediate parents , and by the Authors interpretation , the thousand generations to which God extendeth mercy , is confined to one , because if the wicked two , the father and mother bee violaters of the Covenant , though nine hundreth foregoing generations have beene lovers of God , yet the Covenant mercy is interrupted to the innocent Infants , ( in this innocent ) and they are translated over to the classe and roll of the children of Turkes and Pagans under the curse and wrath of God for hundreth of generations . The Lord in this having a respect to that people whom hee brought out of the Land of Egypt , in whom hee fulfilled this promise of shewing mercy to many generations , though their nearest parents were grievers of his holy Spirit , and rebellers against him : for Abraham , Isaac and Jacobs sake , cannot bee so narrow and pinched in mercy to the posteritie , as to reduce a thousand generations to one , as this Author would have him to doe .

2. It is a hungry extention of mercy , as the Author exponeth it , to Gods extending of thoughts , of redeeming and converting to a thousand generations , which hee hath to Turkes ; for these thoughts of redeeming are from the free and absolute decree of election to glory , but this is an expresse promise of extending the mercy of the Covenant to a thousand generations , and such as the Lord by necessitie of his veracitie and faithfulnesse of covenant , cannot contraveene .

3. The place 1 Cor. 7. is corrupted contrary to the Apostles intent , which is to resolve a case of conscience , whether the beleeving wife married on a Pagan husband , or a beleeving husband married on a Pagan wife should divorce and separate , because the seed would seeme by Gods Law to bee uncleane , Para 9. 2. Paul answereth , if one be holy and professe the faith , the 〈◊〉 is holy , v. 14. whereas if both father and mother were Pagans and heathen , the seed should be unholy , and voyde of federall holinesse , then were the children uncleane . But the consequence is frivolous , if both be Pagans , and Heathen , and unbeleevers ( for so the Author doth well expound the unbeleeving husband ) then the seed is uncleane and voyde of federall holinesse . But it followeth not : Ergo , if both the Christian Parents be excommunicated , and be scandalous and wicked , they are not members of a parishionall visible Church , then are the children uncleane and voyd of all federall holinesse , and have no right to the seales of the covenant . We deny this connexion , for there be great odds betwixt the children of Turkes , and children of excommunicated and scandalous parents . The children of Turkes and Heathen are not to be baptized , but the children of excommunicates , are as Turkes and Heathen ; Ergo , the children of excommunicates are not to bee baptized . The Syllogisme is vitious in its forme ; 2. It faileth in its matter , for children of excommunicates , because of the Covenant made with their ancestors , are in Covenant with God , and the children of Turkes are not so .

The Author addeth , The wickednesse of the parents doth not 〈◊〉 the election or redemption , or the Faith of the child : 〈◊〉 a Bastard is reckoned in the Catalogue of beleevers , He●●●nes 11. 32. Yet a bastard was not admitted to come unto 〈◊〉 Congregation of the Lord to the tenth generation , Deuteronom. ●3 . 2.

Answ. It is true , the want of baptisme is no hazzard to the salvation of the childe , nor doe we urge that the infants of excommunicates , should be baptized , because we thinke baptisme necessary , necessitate medii , as Papists doe , but neither we nor Papists , nor any except Anabaptists , and the late Belgi●●e Arminians and Socinians , as a a

Episcopius disp. priv . 29.

Coller . 1. ritum fuisse tantu●n temporarium ex nullo praecepto Iesu Christi●surpa●um .

Episcopius , b b Hen●icus Slatius declar . a per. pag. 53. Henri us S●●tius , c c Somnerus Tract . de baptis . Somnerus , d d Socinus de baptis . c. 5. par. 53. 55. 57. Socinus deny baptisme to be necessary in respect of Gods Commandement ; and indeed if you urge the constitution of a visible Church , as you doe of members called of God , and Saints , not onely in externall profession , but also in some measure of sincerity and truth , as you doe expressely say ( e ) in this Treatise , we see not how you can hold that Infants can be baptized at all while they come to age , and can give tokens to the Church of their faith , and conversion to God , for if they beleeve not , you put Gods seale upon a blanke , which you thinke absurd .

In the closing of this Section , the Author reasoneth against God-fathers , which are to us of civill use , and no part of baptisme : He alledgeth , he knoweth not any ground at all to allow a The way of the Churches of Christ in New England , Chap. 3. Sect. 3. faithfull man liberty to entitle another man his childe , to baptisme , onely upon a pretence of a promise , to have an eye to his education , unlesse the childe be either borne in his house or resigned to him , to be brought up in his house as his owne .

I Answer , 1. The Infants of beleeving Fathers absent in other Lands , upon their lawfull callings , are by this holden from the Seale of the Covenant , as if they were the Children of Pagans , for no fault in the Parents .

2. A promise of education in the Christian faith is here made a sufficient ground for baptizing an Infant , whereas alwayes before the Author contendeth for an holy profession of faith in both , or at the least in one of the nearest parents , but we know that a friend may undertake the Christian education of the childe of an excommunicate person , who is to you as the childe of a Pagan , we think , upon such a promise , you could not baptize the childe of a Turke : Ergo , excommunicated persons and Turkes are not alike , as you say .

CHAP. 5. SECT. 1. and 2.

T●●●hing the dispensation of the censures of the Church .

Authour .

WE proceede not unto censure , but in case of some knowne Author of the Treatise of the way of the Churches of Christ in New England . Chap. 5. Sect. 1. offence .

Answ. What if a member of your Church doe ●how himselfe in private , to some brethren , to be a non-regenerated person , and so indeede not a member of the visible Church , by your doctrine , he should be excommunicated for non-regeneration , which is against Christs way , Matth. 18. who will have such sinnes as , if denyed , may be proved by two witnesses , onely to be censurable by the Church , else you shall retaine such an one , and admit him to prophane the Table of the Lord .

In this first and second Section I have nothing to examine but what hath beene handled already , especially the Peoples power in Church-affaires hath beene fully discussed ; onely the Author will have the preaching of the word , a worship not pecu●iar to the Church , but commune to those who are not in the Church-state at all , and that ordinarily in respect that Indians and Heathens may come and heare the Word , 1 Cor. 14. but this proveth not but that preaching of the word is proper and peculiar to the Church : but there is another mystery here , as from the first chapter , second Section , then preaching of the word is to be performed by gifted persons , yea ordinary preaching for the conversion of Soules , before there be any Pastors in the Church to Preach . Hence is that .

Quest. I. Whether conversion of soules to Christ , be ordinarily the proper fruite & effect of the word preached by a sent Pastor ; or if it be the 〈◊〉 and effect of the word preached by Pastors not as Pastors , but as 〈◊〉 to preach , and so of all persons not in office , yet gifted to preach ?

The Churches of New-England in their Answers to the thirty two Questions , sent by the Ministers of Old - England , Answer Quaest. 29. by certaine Theses , which I set downe and examine .

1. The conversion of sinners followeth not alwayes the preaching of every one that is in lawfull office of the Ministery .

2. When conversion doth follow , it doth not follow from the preaching of a Pastor , or by vertue of his office , but by the blessing of God .

Answ. 1. The former reason is most weake , conversion followeth not alway upon Christs preaching , and the Apostles their preaching did not alwayes produce conversion : but I pray you because they were not efficacious meanes of conversion , doth it follow , Therefore they were not ordinary meanes ? I thinke not .

2. The second is as weake , Conversion followeth not upon the preaching of a Pastor by vertue of his office , but by the blessing of God . What ? Ergo , Pastorall preaching is not an ordinary meane of conversion ? neither doth conversion follow upon preaching , by vertue of the gift , no more then by vertue of the office , but by the blessing of God : Ergo , neither is preaching of a gifted man , the ordinary mean of conversion , as you teach , nor are the Sacraments by this reason , ordinary meanes to seale up our communion with Christ , and the graces of the Covenant , for Sacraments are efficacious meanes onely by the blessing of God , and not by vertue of the office ; We doe not hold that the office hath influence , either in the word preached , or in the Soules of people , but it followeth not that the Pastorall preaching of these who are sent , Rom. 10. 14. Esa. 40. 9. and that with Pastorall authority , are not the meanes appointed of God for conversion , but here they confound meanes , actu primo , lawfull and ordinary , with meanes efficacious , and , in actu secundo , blessed with successe from the Lord .

This we acknowledge ( say they ) that sound conversion of sinners , argueth that the instruments of such conversion were sent of God , Rom. 10. 14 , 15. Jer. 23. 32. yet we dare not say that Gods word is not effectuall to conversion , unlesse the man that speaketh it be a Minister , that is , a Church-officer , the contrary being evident , Joh. 4. 10. Act. 8. 4. Matth. 11. 19 , 21. 1 Cor. 7. 16. and to say so , mere to limit the Spirit of God , where he hath not limited himselfe . 1 Cor. 12. 11. 1 Cor. 1. 27. 29.

Answ. 1. Sending Rom. 10. 14. is an officiall and authoritative sending , not onely a bare gifting and habilitating of the man sent , for it is such a sending , as the sending of Prophets , whose feete were pleasant upon the mountaines , and the watchmen who lift up their voice , Esa. 52. 7 , 8. Nah. 1. 15. and this is not a naked gifting , but besides they were commanded by God to speake , and so had authority : now though private Christians be instruments of conversion , yet it followes no wayes , that they are preachers sent of God , in the sense that the Scripture speaketh , Rom. 10. 14. 15. and farre lesse in the sense that is spoken , Jer. 23. 32. for it is said these who prophecie lyes in Gods name , and were not sent , shall profit the people nothing ; now the sending denyed to be in these false teachers , is not onely want of gifts , but want of an authoritative command of God to preach , as is cleare , v. 21. I have not sent these Prophets , yet they ranne ; I have not spoken unto them , yet they prophecyed . When it is said , The word of the Lord came to Jeremiah , to Ezekiel , &c. the meaning is not that Jeremiah was gifted onely , but beside 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , an hability to prophecy , the Lord gave him 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , authority by a speciall Commandement , saying , Go speake , Loe I have sent thee , &c. Now this immediate Commandement from God himselfe speaking from heaven , or in a vi●on , is not in the Churches of the New Testament , yet God speaketh by the Elders and Presbytery to Pastors now , 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Tit. 1. 9. 10. except you I say with Arminians and Socinians , there is no neede now of the Churches sending , all gifted may preach the Gospell , without any Church-call .

3. This consequence is loose , conversion of sinners argueth that the instruments were sent of God ; Ergo , the Preaching of Pastors ●● Pastors is not the ordinary meane of conversion .

Lastly , We deny not but private Christians may be instruments of conversion , but the places which afterward shall be examined , prove not the point , that Pastorall preaching , in a constitute Church , is not the ordinary meane , but your Doctrine is that Pastors as Pastors doe onely confirme those in the faith , who are already converted , but that they convert none at all , as Pastors , but that the onely ordinary meanes of conversion , and of planting of men in formall state of Church-membership are men gifted to preach , and not Pastors by office ; Sending ( say they ) sometimes importeth but an act of Gods providence , whereby men are gifted , and permitted to do such a thing , though they be not commanded of God , nor do in obedience to God , but for sinisterous ends , so God sent the King of Assyria , Esay 10. 6. 2 King . 24. 2. So they that preached of envy , Phil. 1. 15. are sent : So Balaam was sent . 2. Some are sent who beside gifts and permission , have also a sincere mind to imploy their gifts , God by his Spirit stirring them up , 1 Joh. 7. 18. 3. Those are sent of God , who have both gifts , permission , and a sincere mind to imploy their gifts , and withall a lawfull calling to the office : if men want a lawfull calling to that office of the ministery , and are not sent of God the third way , yet may they preach and convert soules , as sent of God , the first and second way .

Answ. 1. There should have beene places of Scripture to prove that Balaam and the enviers of Paul , Phil. 1. 15. who preached Christ of envy , were sent the first way : for Balaam prophecied of the Starre of Iacob , as one lawfully sent and a called Prophet , as all other Prophets , ( though hee was not a gracious man ) for Numb . 24. 2. Balaam saw the visions of God , and the Spirit of God came upon him . 4. He saw the visions of the Almighty , and fell in a trance : and Isaiah , Ieremiah , Ezekiel had no other calling as Prophets , though in zeale and simplicitie of prophecying , they differed from Balaam : and Paul would never have rejoyced that these teachers preached Christ , Phil. 1. 15. if they had without all calling of God preached Christ ; doubtlesse they had a calling of the Church to preach , except you thinke that none have a calling , as called pastors , but those who are converted .

3. By this distinction you hold that men may be ordinary Preachers gifted , and so sent of God to preach , and may and doe convert soules , though they have no calling of the Church ; which unsound doctrine the Arminians and Socinians hold this day : for they teach ,

1. That all gifted persons may preach the Gospel , and convers soules .

2. That all who are gifted to preach , are sent and lawfully called to preach , though the Church doe not call them .

3. That now since the Gospell is sufficiently revealed , and the Apostles are dead , there is required no calling of the Church , to make one a Lawfull minis●er : And your Arguments they have , and you have their Arguments to evert all ministerie and order of calling of pastors ; so teach the Arminians , and so Episcopius ; disp . 26. thes. 4. 5. Necessitatem missionis jam cessare dicendum est , ac Episcopius . p●inde fas licitumve esse homini Christian● , non tantum in magno necessitatis casu , aut in enormi ecclesiae defectione , sed quovis etiam tempore v●rbum divinum docere , si ad docendum sit idoneus , & qui doari v●lunt , id serio & obnixè postulant . So doe the Socinians , A● lr . Roddeccius in not is in lib. Smiglecii pag. 3. Confitemur & olim ●●l●sie ministros vocari potuisse , imo vocatos fuisse , & nunc etiam voc●ri posse ; in vero id quod olim factum est , & hodie fieri potest , ad m●nus ministrorum requiratur , hoc vere & perpetuo quaeritur ; Cat●ch si● Raccoviensis , cap. 11. 305. 306. Cum per hujusmodi , ex praes●ripto Apostolicae doctrinae constituuntur , & in his duabus rebus praest ●ut , vitae innocontiâ & ad docendum aptitudine , propter ejusmodi constitutionem apud omnes authoritatem suam merito in venire debent . Smaleius in refut. thes. D. Frantzii parte 2. disp. 4. pag. 377. Hoc enim in questione est , an hujusmodi constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministrum : hoc autem nos negamus , nihil enim tale , ( quod caput reiest ) in descriptione eorum , quae ad episcopum constituendum requiritur , nec uspiam judicatum vel levissime videmus , cum qui talis sit , postea vocari , & mittiab aliquo debere , imo posse aliquem per se munus tale concupiscere vel aff●ctare manifeste scriptum legimus . Theoph. Nicolaid . in refut. tract . de miss. ministrorum cap. 10. pag. 80 , 87. 88. Munus docendi non tam est honos , quam labor , laborem autem semper sumere li●et , h●ores non item : & pag. 91. Docet Paulus rect● id fieri posse , unumqu●mque munus docendi aggredi , m●do ad id aptus sit , quod aggredi cogitat , vel cupit .

Quest. II. Whether or not all gifted persons may preach the Word of God publikely , and ordinarily , for the gathering in of soules to Christ , though they be destitute of all officiall authoritie , or Church calling to that ministery ?

Our brethren hold all gifted persons not in office may ordinarily preach publikely ; So teach Mr. Robinson in a Treatise intituled The peoples ple t for prophecying , the Arguments of which booke I shall shortly discusse . Hence these considerations .

1. Distinct. There is one power of publike preaching in a Church not constitute , and another in a Church constitute ; gifted persons in extraordinary cases , where a Church is not planted , may publikely preach , but the case is otherwise in a Church constituted .

2. Distinct. Pastors not onely as gifted men , but as Pastors are ●illed of God , for the conversion of soules , and the visible Church is Christs visible kingdome , and visible society , to make persons members of the invisible Church of the first borne .

3. Dist. Publike preaching , as it is the ordinary meane of saving such as beleeve , is proper and peculiar to the Church , both subjectively , as being onely in the Church , and objectively as being onely exercised on the Church members , perse , but upon P●gans by accident .

4. Dist. There is a call to an habituall and ordinary prophe●ying , here is required not onely a calling by gifts , but also a collation of authoritie to the office , either immediately by God , or mediately by the Church , and there is a call to some particular or occasionall acts of exhorting , as the Martyrs and Stephen are called to give consession of their faith , and a King in battell , to exhort his army , or a Prince his Subjects to piety , and to this latter there is no other call required , but the place and profession of the exhorter , though hee bee not by office a Pastor .

5. Dist. There is a formall calling of the Church , as the laying on of the hands of the Elders , and a virtuall and interpretative calling or tacite approbation of the Church , when learned men of eminent gifts , not in office , do write Commentaries , Sermons on Canonick Scriptures , and tractates resuting heresies ; to this the tacite approbation of the Church is required , but these have not ordinary pastorall care , nor are they the ordinary converters of soules to Christ , as the pretended Prophets of Separatists are .

6. Dist. Gifted Christians may occasionally admonish , warne , rebuke and exhort one another ; 1. privately ; 2. without any Pastorall care of soules as they are a Church , but onely as they occasionally converse with them ; 3. Excommuni officio charitatis , by the Law of nature , charitie tying one member to helpe another ; 4. Not authoritatively by speciall office ; but all authoritie here is from the word occasionally spoken . The Pastor is to preach , 1. Publikely ; 2. To the Church as the Church . 3. With a pastorall obligation to all alike , whether he converse daily with them or not . 4. Not onely by the tie of common Charitie , but by a vertue of a speciall office . 5. With authority both objective from the word , and officiall from his charge . 6. And is obli●ged to separate himselfe for this charge allanerly , as a watchman who must give an account in a speciall manner to Jesus Christ .

Our brethren hold that the ordinary and established way in the Church of Christ to the end of the world , is that all that are converted are made fit materialls for the visible Church by private Christians , as gifted of God to preach publikely , and to gather a true Church to Christ . 2. That none unconverted , as they are such , are under any pastorall care of Christs officers . 3. That Pastors as Pastors , doe convert none , but onely confirme those who are already converted ; and that if Pastors shall convert any to Christ , it is by accident , as we say , with Aristotle , Musicus curat aegrotum , a Musician cureth a sick man , which he doth no wayes as a musician : for Pastors doe convert as gifted persons , and not as Pastors , and conversion of soules is no proper Church-worke , but accidentall to Pastors .

But that none can take on him lawfully to preach the Word publikely , in the established and ordinarily approved way of Christ for the conversion of soules , but he who is not only gifted , but also called thereunto by God and his Church , I prove .

1. Argum. If faith come ordinarily by hearing a Pastor sent of God , and such Pastors as are called messengers with good newes , and watchmen not onely gifted , but also instructed with authority of office , then are not gifted persons , because gifted , called of God to be ordinary converters of soules . But the former is true , Rom. 10. 14. for they are 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and of these the Prophet saith , Isa. 52. 8. Thy watchmen shall lift up the voyce . And it is thus confirmed , That Gospel which is the power of 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 God and the wisedome of God to those who are saved , is the Gospel preached by such as are sent both to preach and baptise : but 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Gospel preached by gifted men , only out of office , is not the Gospel preached by those who are sent both to preach and to baptise : Ergo , the Gospel preached by onely gifted persons voyd of all office , is not the power and wisdom of God to those who are saved . The assumption is granted , for gifted men out of office may not lawfully baptise . I prove the proposition , 1 Cor. 1. 23. but wee preach Christ , &c. That this [ wee ] is to bee understood of those who are sent both to preach and baptise , is cleare , vers. 17. But Christ sent mee not to baptise , but to preach , that is , he sent mee not to baptise principally , Ergo , in one and the same Patent from heaven , Paul was warranted to preach , and to baptise , as one commission is given , Matth. 28. 19. to teach all Nations , and to baptise , yea it is 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 then it is such a preaching as must bee backed with the sealing by baptisme ; also if he had meant that preaching was not peculiar to Apostles and other successors , hee should have said . But yet preach Christ crucified , &c. for Separatists do teach , with Socinians , that there was a multitude of unofficed Prophets at Corinth .

Robinson , as if he had learned in Socinus his schoole , saith to Robinson , the peoples pea for the exercise of prophecying against Mr. Yates , Arg. 2. pag. 6. this , But for the word sending which he so much urgeth , it must bee knowne , that all who teach lawfully are sent by Christ , in respect of their personall gifts and graces , so ordinary officers are not sent by those who appoint them to minister , as was the extraordinary Apostles sent by Christ who appointed them . Sending importeth a passeth of the sent from the sender to another , and so the Apostles were sent by Christ to preach the Gospel to the Jewes and Gentiles , and so are not Pastors sent by the Church ( which calleth them ) unto others , but to minister unto her selfe , after the exercise of publike ministery is ended , the Church doe publikely exhort and require , as the Rulers doe Paul and Barnabas , Act 13. 14. that if they have any word of exhortation , they would say on .

Answ. Surely Mr. Yates , and wee both have much for us to urge the necessitie of sending , except men would runne unsent , and so be guilty of intrusion , for so doth the Scripture , Exod. 28. 1. Take to thee Aaron thy brother , &c. Numb . 1. 49. Thou shalt appoint the Levits over the Tabernacle of the Testimony , and over all the vessels , and all that belongeth thereunto : so saith Hezekiah to the Levites , The Lord hath chosen you to stand before him , and to minister unto him : Esay 6. 8. And I heard the voyce of the Lord saying , Whom shall I send , and who shall goe for me ? 9. and hee said , goe and say to this people , Jerem. 1. 4. And the Word of the Lord came unto me , saying , v. 5. Hos. 1. 1. and the Word of the Lord came to me , Heb. 1. 1. Joh. 1. 6. There was a man sent of God , Luk. 3. 2. Matth. 10. 5. Those twelve Jesus sent forth , Isa. 48. 16. Isa. 61. 1. Heb. 5. 4. Joh. 20. 21. Matth. 28. 19. Mark 16. 15. Rom. 11. 1. Rom. 1. 1. Gal. 1. 1. Act. 14. 13. Paul and Barnabas ordained Elders in every Church , 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 ●im . 2. 2 , 3. Tit. 1. 9 , 10. If you urge not sending , you goe from the Scriptures .

2. He saith all who lawfully teach are sent of God in respect of personall gifts . But 1. where doth the holy Ghost speake so in the Scripture ? All then who have gifts to be Kings and Magistrates are sent of God to the throne and bench ? what bloody confusions would hence fellow ? Yea if they have gifts to bee Kings and do not all flie to the throne , they resist the calling of God , and sinne in so doing , as Jonah did , and hide their Lords Talent . 2. Women in whose lipps is the Law of grace , Prov. 31. 26. and who are to teach the younger women , Tit. 2. 3. 4. are so sent of God to preach ; O but ( say they ) they are forbidden to preach . I answer , true , then ( to be gifted to preach : ) is not all one with this ( to bee sent to preach ) for to bee sent to preach of God , is to be commanded to preach . If then women bee sent in respect of gifts , they are commanded to preach , and that by God , and yet Gods Word forbiddeth them to preach ; Ergo , that same will of God revealed doth command and forbid one and the same thing , which is absurd . Ergo , to be gifted is not to be sent to preach . 3. You here clearely side with Arminians and So●inians , for Episcopius a a Episcop. disp . 26. 4 5. requireth no more to preaching , but that the man bee idoneous and apt to teach . And b b Theophil . Nicolaides tract . demissiono minist. cap. 10. cap. 88. Theoph Nocolaides , that there be in him an holy life and aptitudo ad docendum alios , aptitude to teach others . 4. Arminians and Socinians teach that the sending , Rom. 10. 14. and other places are meant of extraordinary sending which is now ceased , since the Apostles are dead . So (c) Episcopius d d Remonstr. in confess . cap. 21. sect. 2. 4. and Arminians in their confession . e e Socinus tract . de ecclesia cap. 1. pag. 140. Socinus f f Ostorodiut Inst. cap 42. Raddecius in not . Simgle●ii pag. 5. ipse textus doce● de solis apostoli● sermonem esse . Ostorodius expound the place , Rom. 10. 14. Paulum de suo duntaxat tempore loqui , and so there is no need of sending now : and Robinson sympathizing with them , saith , Ordinary officers are not sent now by the Church , as the Apostles were then sent of Christ ; but the professors of Leyden g g Profes . Leyd . eens . confess . cap. 2. sect. 2. 3. refuting the Arminians , say there is a necessitie of sending now as there was then , and h h Calvinus Comment. in Rom. 10. Calvin , i i Beza ann●● . de ministerio vel ordinariovel extraordinarie debet intelligi . Beza , k k Pareus de ordinaria etiam vocatione debet intelligi . Paraeus accord to this , that Paul speaketh of ordinary calling . 4. The Word of God differenceth the giving of gifts to the ministery , and the giving of authoritie , and sending authoritative by a lawfull calling , the one being collatio 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , the other 〈◊〉 , as Matth. 10. 1. Then he called the twelve , and gave them power , and v. 5. their sending and gifting by authoritie is cleare , these twelve he sent out : So Jer. 1. 5. I have separated thee , &c. this is calling and sending , & v. 9. Then the Lord put forth his hand and touched my mouth , this is a giving of gifts , and Isa. 1. 1. Isaiah is gifted when he saw the visions of God , but Chap. 6. 7. he is sent and receiveth authority to goe , beside that v. 8 , 9. and Job . 20. when Christ breathed upon the Disciples , hee giveth them the gifts of the holy Spirit , but when he saith , Go and teach , and as my father sent me , so send I you , he giveth them authoritie and sendeth them : yea though Prophets did prophecie true things that should come to passe , yet were they false Prophets , De●t . 13. 1 , 2. because the Lord sent them not . And for the place , Rom. 10 , 14. cited from Isa. 52. though Prophets hearing Isaiah and Jeremiah prophecie of the peoples returne from Babylon , should prophecy the same that Isaiah and Jeremiah had prophecied , yet not being sent of God , they should have beene false Prophets : and after the Spirit is entered unto Ezecbiel , ch . 2. 2. and so he is gifted , yet is there another sending , v. 3. then said the Lord unto me , &c. And might ( I pray you ) Baruch have preached all his Master Jeremiahs Prophecies ? But I thinke that should not have made him a Prophet : yea and Christ in whom was all fulnesse of gifts and grace , Job . 1. 16. Col. 2. 9. yet tooke not on him to be a Priest of the New Testament till he was called of God , as Aaron , Heb. 5. 4 , 5. Job . 1. 18. and Calvin , Musculus , Gualter , expone the Prophets and Pastors , prophecying peace , Isa. 52. to be the Prophets , who not onely were gifted to preach , but sent with speciall authority , to prophecie the peoples deliverance out of Babylon . And lastly , by this also have the gifted Prophets a calling of God , to administrate the Sacraments , because , if to be gifted , be to be sent of God , certainly they are gifted to administrate the Sacraments no lesse then to preach , and so l l

Arminiani in Apolog. cap. 25. fol. 246.

Quid obstat cur in casu necessitatis non potest ● fideli aliquo , infa●s aqua ting●● out inter ●deles cana Domini non celebrari posse● ?

saith the Arminians , with their Socinians , as m m Socinus tr●c . de eccles. pag 15. Socinus and n n Smalcius disp de minist. sect. 7. Smalcius , If they say , Christ requireth a particular Minister to the Sacraments , but not so to the word : I answer , to pastorall preaching he requireth also a peculiar minister , as our brethren teach , from Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5 4. 5. but to teaching by vertue of a gift any gifted man is sufficient : the same distinction may as well hold that there is a pastorall administration of the Sacraments and a common administration of them by vertue of a gift , yea and o o Gerardus tom . 6. loco comm. de ministerio ecclesiastico . c. 3. sect. 1. n. 67. pag. 74. Gerardus observeth well , that to the calling of the ministery belongeth the administration of the Sacraments , as a speciall part thereof , 1 Cor. 12. 29. Ephes. 4. 11. Jam. 3. 1. 7. yea and if ministers bee stewards , 1 Cor. 4. 12. are they not dispensators of the Sacraments , by their office , as of the Word ?

5. Robinson giveth for shame a sort of calling to the unofficed Prophets , to wit , that the Church requireth them , if they have a word of exhortation , to speake on , as Act. 13. But 1. not his Church , but the rulers required Paul and Barnabas to speake . 2. The Rulers knew them to be Apostles and Pastors by office , for there were Prophets there , Chap. 14. 1. but the Apostles would have none to preach , as Pastors by office , but such as are proved , and authorized by the Elders , 1 Tim. 3. 10. ch. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2 , 3. 3. This calling of the Church is onely for orders cause in the constitute Church , but a thing not necessary by divine institution , and so the Socinians . So Smalcius p p Smalcius in refut. thes. Franzii par. 2. disp. 4. pag. 377. Non negamus ex ist a consuctu●●ine primitivae ecclesiae Apost●licae consequii ●llud etiam nunc fieri posse — sed hoc est in questione , an ejusm●di constitutio sit prorsus necessaria ad constituendum verbi dei ministerium . teach us that the Churches sending and calling in the Apostolick Church was a custome , 〈◊〉 decorum arbitramur ( saith Smalcius ) u● id observaretur ; and and so saith q q Andr. Raddecius in notis ad lib. Smiglecii pag. 3. Andr. Raddecius , and the r r Remonst. in Apolog. cap. 21. sol . 227. missionem esse necessariam concedimus necessitate ordinis & decori . Arminians have also the same distinction : But this place approveth not that every by person ( so to speake ) might preach in the Jewes Synagogues .

2. Argum. If Christ ascending on high led captivitie captive , and gave gifts unto men , some to be Apostles and some Pastors and Doctors , and that for the gathering of Christs body , and if some , not all are Prophets , 1 Cor. 12. 29. then hath God appointed Pastors in office to bee the ordinary gatherers of soules in to Jesus Christ , and if this bee not said , when hee ascended on high , hee made all private Christians de jure , preachers to edifie publikely the whole Church , and if any bee not gifted , it is their owne fault , for they are obliged to bee such .

3. Argum. He who Matth. 10. 42. contradistinguisheth the prophet and the righteous man , as different persons , and having different rewards , he doth not acknowledge a righteous man to be a Prophet , hoc ipso , because he is a righteous man . But Christ doth contradistinguish them , v. 41. He that receiveth a Prophet in the name of a Prophet , shall receive a Prophets reward , and he that receiveth a righteous man , in the name of a righteous man , shall receive a righteous mans reward ; Ergo , Christ acknowledgeth them to differ . Now if a righteous man , hoc ipso , because hee is a righteous man , and a member of the Church , should exercise these same specifice acts with a Prophet , that is , if hee should publikely preach to convert soules , he should by this place bee a Prophet , and the reward of a Prophet should be given to the receiver of the righteous man , yea and more then the reward of a Prophet , in respect he is both a righteous man , and a Prophet .

4. To all Prophets a speciall promise of Gods assistance and presence is made in the word , as Jerem. 1. 18 , 19. Matth. 28. 20 Luk. 21. Verse 14. 15. Act. 9. Verse 17. But to these who are not prophets by office , there is no such promise in the word ; Ergo ,

5. All that are sent of God as ordinary converters of soules from the kingdome of darkenesse to the kingdome of Jesus Christ , must seeke out fit words , as the Preacher did , Eccles. 12. 11. 12. hee must convince and judge the hearer , and make manifest the secrets of the heart , as 1 Cor. 14. 24 , 25. he must cut the word aright , as a Timothy , 2 Tim. 2 15. he must give every one of the house meate in due season , Matth. 24. 46. he must know and try the wayes of the people , Jerem. 11. 18. When he seeth the sword comming , he must warne the wicked to turne from his evill way , Ezech. 3. 18 , 19. Hee must watch for soules , as one who is to give an account , Heb. 13. 17. Hee must exhort the people to bee reconciled to God , and this hee must pray and request in Christs stead , 2 Cor. 5. 20. And hee must give himselfe wholly to reading , 1 Tim. 4. 15 , 16. And not intangle himselfe with any 〈◊〉 calling , 2 Tim. 2. 4. All these cannot be done by Prophets not in office . And all these are duties of Pastors in office , and to ty private Christians , who are commanded to attend their owne callings were unreasonable , and repugnant to the Word of God . The proposition is cleare ; no man can preach , but hee who must give himselfe to reading , and must watch and speake to the present case of the hearers ; but especially such Preachers as are the onely ordinary converters of soules to Christ , must give warning that the unrighteous die not in his sinne : now to say that all these were duties incumbent to merchants , artificers , fashioners , carpenters , cloathiers , were to mocke the word of God , and to say , these and these onely were the gatherers of a Church , and Kingdome to Christ , were unknowne Divinity .

6. All Prophets are set downe in Christs roll of lawfull officers . 2. The rules and canons for the right exercise of their ministery is set downe , especially seeing these pretended prophets are presumed to be the greatest part of the visible Church . 3. The onely ordinary gainers of soules to Christs kingdome and visible Church , even to the second comming of Jesus Christ . 4. Seeing the Lord doth so often complaine of idle Pastors , of dumbe dogges , by whose sleeping , soules are losed . Now this Argument for the proposition seemeth most reasonable . In the old Testament Priests , Levites , Prophets ; and all the edifying officers are set downe there , and so are the officers and canons anent their government set downe in the New Testament , Eph. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 28. 1 Tim. 3. 2 Tim. 2. Act. 2. 17 , 18. Io●l 2. 28. Act. 20. 28. But no such things are written in the old or new Testament of gifted Prophets not in office .

7. All lawfull officers have power authoritatively from Iesus Christ to remit and to retaine sinnes , by the preaching of the Word . But Preachers out of office have no such power , Ergo , Preachers out of office , are not lawfull Preachers .

The proposition is , Ioh. 20. 21. The assumption is evident , for where are they sent as the Father sent his Sonne Christ ? and that promise is made onely to the Apostles , and to their successors , Prophets without office are not the successors of the Apostles .

a a Robinson Peoples plea , Arg. 1. pag. 2 , 3. Robinson saith , the commission there given is peculiar to the Apostles onely , and confirmed by the miraculous inbreathing of the holy Ghost , and by them to be dispensed principally to unbeleevers , of all which nothing is common to ordinary officers , but else where , this power is given to the whole Church , Matth. 16. 17. 1 Cor. 5. 2 Cor. 6. 6. Yea to every faithfull brother , Matth. 16. 18. Ch. 18. 15. Luk. 17. 3. This is that which Anabaptists teacheth ( as b b Chemnitius loc. com . part . 3. cap. de Eccles. pag. 314. Chemnitius saith ) and the very doctrin of c c Ostorodius in Instit. cap. 42. pag. 438. Ostorodius , d d Nicolaides in defens . tract . Socini de ecclesia & ministerio , cap. 1. pag. 146. Nicolaides , e e Socinus tract . de eccles pag. 14. Socinus , but except the miraculous inbreathing of the holy Ghost , there is nothing here peculiar to the Apostles onely : for the loosing and retaining of sinne , is nothing but binding and loosing of the sinnes , and this is nothing but the forgiving and retaining of sinne by the preaching of the word , and censures of the Church , and that binding and loosing , Matth. 16. is not given to the whole Church of beleevers , for the Text saith no such thing , but power of the keyes is given to Peter , that is , to the Church-guides the successors of Peter . 2. Authoritative power of forgiving of sinne , is not Matth. 18. said to bee ratified in heaven , but onely when the Church doth bind and loose ; and forgiving , Luk. 17. is betwixt sister and sister , who have not power to bind and loose in heaven .

8. All Prophets are either ordinary or extraordinary , as is cleare in Gods Word ; extraordinary now are not in the Church , and the ordinary Prophets now are not gifted to preach the Word , except as Timothy , from their youth they have beene trained up in the Scriptures , and have learning , sciences , knowledge of the tongues , if he would bee a man able to teach others , 2 Tim. 2. 3. 1 Tim. 3. hee must meditate , reade , and give himselfe wholly to these things , 1 Tim. 3. 15 , 16. and so must leave his calling contrary to the Apostle his commandement , 1 Cor. 7. 20 , 21 , 22. 1 Thess. 4. 11. Ephes. 4. 28. but if hee have a gift for publicke preaching , he is to separate himselfe for it , seeing a gift is a token of Gods separation .

Quest. III. Whether the Arguments of Mr. Robinson for the p●ophecying Peoples plea for prophecying , pag. 34. of private persons , not in office , doe strongly conclude ?

I shall set them downe in order and discusse them . If a Bishop must be apt to teach , then he must be tryed before he be● admitted to the office . Ergo , while be is o●t of office he must prophecie .

Answ. This Argument concludeth not the Question , for by as good reason the sonnes of the Prophets or young Prophets , who behoved to exercise their gift , as 1 Sam. 10. 5. 2 King . 2. 7. 2 King . 4. 1. 1 King . 20. 35. before they bee fully received as Prophets , must be prophets and officers not in office differing from Prophets in office , even as their lay Prophets are different from Pastors , but an apprentise of a trade is not a different tradesman from the master to whom hee serves as apprentise , but he is onely different from him in degree . But their Lay-Prophets are tradesmen , not sonnes of the Prophets , not ayming at the pastorall charge , but ordinary officers for converting of soules , and doe differ from Pastors , as those who are non-Pastors , differ from Pastors .

Robinson . If the Lords gifting of Eldad and Medad , Numb . 11. 29. with the spirit of prophecying , inabling them to prophecy , and made them extraordinary Prophets , why should not by due proportion an ordinary gift inabling a man to an ordinary prophecy , serve also to make him an ordinary Prophet ? Now Moses in wishing that all the people were Prophets , wisheth as well the use , as possession of the gift .

Answ. The Jewes say that Eldad and Medad were of the 70. Elders , upon whom was powred part of that spirit of prophecy , that was on Moses , and they say they were written in the 70. papers , but not elected , because they drew the papers 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 a part and not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Senex , but it is not like Joshu● would have envied if they had beene now Judges , or that Moses would have likened them unto the people . However , prophets they were . But both the Antecedent is false , and the consequence nulle , for if you meane by the Lords gifting of Eldad and Medad , a naked and a bare revealing to them of the visions of God , without an impulsive commandement from God , setting them on action to prophecie , ( this impulsion is an authoritative sending and calling , ) the antecedent is false , for that gifting of them onely made them able , but not formally authorized Prophets : but if the gifting of them did include both the gift and the command of God , to use the gift , as certainly it did , now the consequence is null , for the naked giving of an ordinary gift , except God by himselfe , and now by the authority of his Church , command the use of the gift , no gifted man , because gifted , is by and by a Prophet , but he must have a commandement ecclesiasticke now to preach , as Eldad and Medad had impulsive commandement to prophecy ; and if any be gifted by an ordinary way as Eldad and Medad was extraordinarily , then they are to be thrusted out to the pastorall calling , and none but a fleshly man will envie them .

Robinson , 2 Chron. 17. 7. Jehos●aphat sent his Princes to preach or teach in the cities of Iudah , and with them the Levites , so the 70. Interpreters , so Pagnine , so Ierom , and the English translation : Ergo , Princes are Prophets not in office , who may teach .

Answ. 1. Doctor Alexander Colveill my reverent colleague , and as learned , so well experienced in the Hebrew , saith that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is here taken for 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and noteth the accusative case , and is to bee Plea pag. 39. 39. read ; And he sent the Princes , as Buxtorfius noteth , Thesaur . l. 1. e. 12. and this Chaldaisme is to be seene in these bookes of the Chronicles written after the Captivitie , as 2 Chron. 5. 13. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 that they might praise Jehovah , and Chap. 32. 17. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 he writ letters also , to raile on the Lord , and so the parallell place , 2 King . 19. 4. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and the place , as the Doctor citeth , is well exponed by R. Salomon Iarc●i in his Commentary 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 that is , it was proper to the Priests and Levites 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to teach & instruct , as it is written , Deut. 24. 28. according to al that the Priests and Levites shal teach you , do yee ; but the Princes went with them lest they should have rebelled against their words , that they might compell them to obey , &c. the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in pihel signifieth this , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in kall , didicit , in pihel 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 he caused him to learne , Dan. 1. 3 , 4. Nebuchadnezzar commanded also Penaz 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to teach them learning and the language of Chaldea ; that honorable Courtier was not a Schoolemaster to teach the children of the captivitie himselfe , but he did it by others . The King of Syria saith to the King of Israel 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 thou shall cure Naaman of his leprosie ; the Maide exponed it , thou shalt cure him by another , Elisha shall cure him . Pilat scourged Jesus , but Livius saith , the Judge said to a burrio , i. Lictor , colliga manus : so Deut. 31. 22. Moses therefore writ this song the same day , and taught it , v. 19. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 teach them this song , and put it in their mouth . It was impossible that Moses in his owne person , could teach the people , and put this song in their mouth , therefore he behooved to teach them by the Priests and Levites , as 24. 25.

2. The Hebrewes may read so , but he sent to his princes , for the letter 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 is a note of the accusative case , of the dative , of the genitive , or of the accusative case with a certaine motion as 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to David , or of David . Valet Haebraeis ( inquit Schindlerus ) ad , in , vel 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 super , and it noteth a motion to a thing , Gen. 2. 22. & aedificavit , he made the rib in a woman 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Iud. 8. 27. and Gideon made it in an Ephod 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 2 Sam. 4. They annointed David 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to bee King . Then it must bee read , hee sent to the Princes , Benchail , &c. to teach in the Cities of Iudah , v. 8. and with them he sent Levites , v. 9. and they taught in Iudah : there is not the least signification in the Text that the Princes taught .

Robinson . Princes and Iudges are to open and expone the Law by which they governe , else they governe with tyranny .

Answ. Judges are to convince the theefe and the murtherer , 1. In a coactive way , not in an ecclesiastick way . 2. As these sinnes are troublesonie and hurtful to the State and Common-wealth . 3 That others may feare to hurt the State by the like sinnes , not that the malefactors may be converted to God , and their soules may be saved ; but your lay-Prophets simpliciter , not in ordine ad paenam , are the onely ordinary converters of soules .

Robinson . There is an excellent Sermon ( saith he ) of Iel oshaphats to the Iudges , 2 Chron. 19. 6. and to the Levites , 9. 10. and a divine prayer , 8. 20. and Hezekiah hath an excellent Sermon to the Priests and Levites , in the very Temple , 2 Chron. 29. 4 , 5. And Nehemiah taught the people the Law of the Lord : Kings are Shepheards and feeders , not onely by government , but also by instruction .

Answ. 1. These Sermons of Iehoshaphat and Hezekiah were first in time of extraordinary defections , when the Priests ( whose it were to teach the people ) were corrupted and turned dumbe dogs .

2. They were Sermons of Propheticall instinct and divine impulsions , as the very stile of them cleareth , and therefore cannot warrant Christian Princes to bee ordinary Prophets , except you make the King a nationall Pastor over Pastors , and two thousand Congregations ; for if , as Prince , hee bee their Pastor , he is equally Pastor and teacher to all these Congregations , and he must be as Prince , obliged to bee a Prophet to convert all : How exclude they a Pastor of Pastors and a diocesian prelate , who introduce a nationall Pastor ? Yea how deny we a Pope , if the King carry both the swords , both of the spirit as a Prophet , and that ordinarily , by his calling to feed soules , and the civill sword to take vengeance upon evill doers ? for whosoever preacheth the word of God as a Prophet , hath the keyes of the Kingdome of heaven committed unto him , to bind and loose , to remit and retaine sinnes on earth , and in heaven , for the preached Gospell is the keyes of the kingdome , as is the power of Church censures . Then must the Kings have both keyes of Church and State , and what hindereth but they admit the King as King , and a nationall Pastor , to be the head of the Church under Christ . 3. Consider the King as a Christian and gifted with learning , hee is parens patriae , and publick nurse father of the Church , and may occasionally upon some extraordinary exigent , at the meeting of the States , or when his armies are going out to battell , make use of the Word of God , to exhort them to generall duties of Religion , and Justice , and to be prepared for meeting with eternitie and judgement ; and this he doth as a Christian father , his subjects being his children : but what is this to inferre that the King as King is a Prophet , and an ordinary feeder of soules ex officio , by office , and that by knowledge and instruction , as Robinson saith , and an ordinary converter of soules , and such a Prophet as doth preach in the Church ordinarily , to the edifying of the Church , and conviction and conversion of Infidels , and gathering of a people to God , as they say of their Prophets out of office , 1 Cor. 14. 4 , 5. 12. 23 , 24 , 25. 31. And upon the same ground a King who hath the spirit of adoption , may publikely pray , as Jeboshaphat did for the Lord of hosts his presence , to goe out with his Armies against the enemies of the Gospel , but à speciei positione ad generis positionem male sequitur , hee may be the peoples mouth to God in such an exigence , and hee may give a word of exhortation anent duties generall of good subjects ; Ergo , hee is an ordinary Prophet , for the ordinary preaching of the Gospel to all his Subjects ; it is a loose and vaine collection .

Lastly , Nehemiah a Prince taught the people , saith he .

I answer , Nehemiah was a Prophet and Author of Canonick Scripture , as was Salomon , and therefore his teaching proveth not the point , Nehem. 1. v. 1. Nor can I finde where Nebemiah preached or prophecied to the people at all , but that Ezra the Scribe , Nehem. 8. and the Levites , Chap. 8. 〈◊〉 9. ( which Robinson citeth without warrant ) did instruct and ●each the people .

Robinson . And if it were not ( saith he ) the received order in Pag. 38 , 39. Israel of old for men out of office to speake and teach in publicke , how did Scribes , Pharisees and Lawyers teach publickly among the Jewes , of whom yet many were not Levites , or Churchmen , but indifferently of any tribe ? Phil. 3. 5. and how was Iesus admitted to dispute in the Temple with the Doctors , Luk. 2. 46. and to preach in the Synagogues , Matth. 9. 35. Luk. 4. 16 , 17. and how were Paul and Barnabas desired , if they had any word of exhortation , to say on ? Act. 13. 14. 15. For the rulers acknowledged Christ and Paul for no extraordinary Praphets , but onely admitted them to the use of their gifts .

Answ. 1. It is great ignorance , if you thinke Scribes , Pharisees and expounders of the Law were not Prophets , because they were not of the Tribe of Levi , for Priests behooved onely to bee of the Tribe of Levi , but Prophets , as Ieremiah and others , were extraordinarily raised up of God out of any tribe , as Calvin well observeth , and all versed in Scripture , and that they were teachers in office is cleare , Matth. 23. 2. They Calvin praelect. in Ierem. 1. 1. sit in Moses his chaire , v. 13. 14. &c. and the office of teaching , though abused , is also ascribed by Christ , to the expounders of the Law , Luk. 11. 46. and what is said of Pharisees in taking away the key of knowledge , is said of them , v. 52.

2. Christs asking of questions , and that when hee was 12. yeares of age , all wondering at his learning , Luk. 2. 42. was no act of prophecying : and granting it had beene the practise of the Iewish Church to admit a child of twelve yeares to preach in the Temple , and to admit hand over head , tradesmen , and all to prophecy in the Temple , it is an Argument from their corrupt practise , à facto ad jus , and no more a rule for the preaching of fashioners , cloathiers , mariners , in the Temple , then the Jewes their taking up stones in the Temple to stone Christ : and it is knowne that Christ did not publickly prophesie in the Synagogues till he was baptized ( as all the learned thinke ) and while his name and fame spread abroad , that a great Prophet was arisen , Luk. 3. 21 , 22 , 23. Luk. 4. 14 , 15 , 16. Yea and the Pharisees knew him to be a teacher sent of God , Ioh. 3. 2. And all the people tooke him to be a Prophet , and therefore the rulers feared to apprehend him , and his doctrine and miracles got him the name of a Prophet sent of God , and Paul and Barnabas were known to be teachers in office , else the rulers would not have desired a word of exhortation , for they did not invite strangers promiscuously to prophesie , and this you onely say , but doe not prove , and is more for us nor against us .

Robinson alleadgeth a place out of Ieremiah , 50. 3. 4. where it Pag. 39. is said , That Israel and Iudah in a spirituall conference shall incourage ●●● another ( as Calvin saith ) to repentance , and to joyne themselves to the true Church ; which is nothing for publicke prophecying , for thus much private Christians , yea all that feare God , women not excepted , may doe in Christian conference , as is cleare , Zach. 8. 21. Mal. 3. 16. Psal. 42. 4. Esa. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. Heb. 3. 13. Heb. 10. 23 , 24 , 25.

The fourth place which he bringeth is , Matth. 10. v. 1. ● . 6. Christ sent out the twelve Disciples to preach the Kingdome of Robinson , pag. 39 40. ●eaven to the lost sheepe of the house of Israel , but they were not Apostles or Preachers in office , till his resurrection , but onely Apostles elect as you say , the major elect ; For 1. they received not commission till after Christs resurrection , Ioh. 20. 22. 23. Matth. 28. 19 , 20. 2. The least in the kingdome of God is greater then Iohn Baptist , for the Christian Church began not properly till his resurrection , and the Apostles being members of the Church of the New Testament , they could not be Apostles in office , before Christs death , except an adjunct be before the subject , and an officer before the incorporation , whereof he is an officer . 3. They were ignorant of many mysteries of Christ , his death , resurrection , nature of his Kingdome , Matth. 20. &c. which was unbeseeming Apostolick dignitie , to the which the highest degree if infallible revelation was requisite . 4. How did they returne , as non-residents to remaine with Christ till his death ? 5. Ephes. 4. 11. Christ till he ascended on high , and not till then , gave some to be Apostles , &c. Hence it must follow that the Disciples were Prophets not in office , and so did preach all this time .

Answer .

1. I answer these frivolous reasons . 2. I prove they were Apostles , or at least Prophets in office , before Christs death and resurrection .

And 1. They received not ample and largest commission to go and preach to all nations , before Christs resurrection , Matth. 28. 19. that is true , but what then ? Therefore they received no commission as Pastors in office to preach to Israel , not to the Gentiles or Samaritans , it no wayes followeth ; yea the contrary , a calling to a Pastorall charge they had , Matth. 10. 5. These twelve did Iesus send out , and commanded them saying , Goe , &c. And these directions and canons which concerne watchmen , 1 Tim. 3. are fully set downe , Matth. 10. when they receive both gifts , v. 1. and authoritie and a calling , v. 5. and speciall instructions , v. 7 , 8 , 9 , 10. how they should discharge and acquit themselves in their ministery , the like whereof is never given to lay-Prophets ( I must crave leave to use this word . ) To the 2. I answer , That it is false that Christ died and lived a member of the Iewish Church onely , he received the Sacrament of baptisme as a member of the Christian Church , as hee was circumcised and keeped the Law of Moses , to testifie hee was a member of Jewish Church ; and it became him to bee a member of both Churches , who was to make of two one people , Ephes. 2. 15. And it is false that the Apostles were adjuncts of the Christian Church ; as Apostles invested in their full Apostolike dignity , to preach to all the world , they were parts and members , not adjuncts of the Catholick visible Church of Christians : when Pastors are called adjuncts of the visible Church , it is cleare that they are made but accidents of the visible Church , & so that the Ministery is not simply necessary to the visible Church , which is the wicked doctrin of a a Remonst. in confess . cap. 22. sect. 1. Arminians , b b Episcop. disp . 26. Thesi. 4 , 5. Episcopius , c c Socinus tract . de ecclesi . per totum & pag. 14 , 15. Socinus , Nicolaides , d d Nicolaides in desens . Socini tract . de eccles. cap. 1. pag. 118. & the Anabaptists taught the same , as saith e e Gastius de cata-Baptistarum erroribus lib. 1. pag. 35. Gasti●s , But though the Apostles , as invested with full Apostolick authority , be members of the Christian Church , and the New Ierusalem bee founded upon their doctrine , Ephes. 2. 20. Revel. 21. 14. yet this hindereth not , but as called Apostles and officers , limited to preach to losed Israel onely , Matth. 10. 5 , 6 , 7. they were members of the Jewish Church , and called Apostles . To the 3. I answer , ignorance of fundamentall points not fully proposed and revealed , if there bee a gratious disposition of saving faith , to beleeve these when they shall be revealed , such was as in the Lords Disciples , Matth. 16. 16 , 17. Luk. 12. 32. Luk. 22. 28 , 29. may well stand with the dignitie of young , and as yet limited Apostles , Matth. 10. 5 , 6 , 7. who had not yet received the holy Ghost , in that measure , Act. 1. 8 , 9. that was requisite for Apostles , in their full Apostolicke charge , and made infallible pen-men of Canonick Scriptures , sent to preach to all the world . To the 4. I answer , They were not non-residents , because they returned to reside with Christ after they had casten out devils , Ioh. 4. 1 , 2. ( which your lay-Prophets by your owne confession cannot lawfully doe ) not to bee idle , but to learne more , and to be eye and care witnesses of the doctrine , life , death , resurrection and ascension to glory of Christ , It is a vaine thing to say that teachers of all Israel , remaining in Israel were non-residents , that is , Pastors not attending their charge . 2 Pet. 1. 16 , 17 , 18. 1 Joh. 1. 1 , 2 , 3. Matth. 26. 37 , 38 , 39. Luk. 24. 50 , 51 , 52. Joh. 20. 19 , 20. Act. 4. 20. which was necessary , that they might preach these things to the world . Nor is a Pastor in his studie attending , reading , as 1 Tim. 3. 15 , 16. though he be not , then teaching , a non-resident . To the 5. I say , when Christ ascended unto heaven , Ephes. 4. 11. He gave some to bee Apostles , &c. but that gifting of Apostles is not to restrict the institution of Apostles , to the precise time of his ascension : for you grant that after the Lords resurrection , and before his ascension they were ordained Apostles , Matth. 28. 19. Joh. 20. 23. but the full sending of the holy Spirit to Apostles , Evangelists , Pastors and Teachers , is ascribed to his ascension as a speciall fruite of his ascension , Act. 1. 8 , 9. Joh. 16. v. 7 , 8 , 9. and therefore is their sending called an effect of the holy Spirit . For the second point , Giving and not granting that the Apostles were not Apostles , till after the resurrection , yet will it not follow , that they were lay-Prophets , or Prophets out of office , for they might have beene Pastors in office , though not Apostles in office , for there were beside these , others in the Jewish Church , else where were Scribes , Pharisees , Lawyers , Doctors , all sitters in Moses his chaire ? They were not Apostles sure ; what were they then ? all teachers out of office ? No ; If then I prove that the Apostles were teachers in office , though it were granted that they were not Apostles ( as in the fulnesse and plenitude thereof they were not ) till Christ arose from the dead , I prove as much as taketh this argument for lay-prophets out of their hands . But that they were not non-officed teachers , but called Apostles or Pastors , I prove .

1. Argum. Judas was chosen one of the twelve and an Apostle , Ergo , farre more were the rest . I prove the Antecedent , 1. Act. 20. Let another take his 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , his charge , 2. v. 17. He took part with us ( say they ) in this 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in this ministery . 3. Matthias v. 25. was chosen in that place and Apostleship from which Judas fell . Now Lay-Prophets have no officiall Episcopacie , no Ministery , nor can any chosen in their place said to bee chosen to an Apostleship , Ioh. 6. 7. Have not I chosen you twelve ? this choosing was to an Embassage ; saith Cyrill , Augustine , Euthymius , and all our Divines with them .

2. Matth. 10. 2. These are the names of the twelve Apostles ▪ v. 5. he send them , What power he giveth to them in respect of al the world to remit and retaine sinnes , Iob. 20. that hee giveth to them toward the house of Israel , v. 11 , 12 , 13. under the name of offered peace , ( Magis & minus non variant speciem ) Mark . 13. 14. Mark . 3. 14. hee ordained twelve , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , hee made twelve to be with him , which he might send to preach , Luk. 9. 1. and he called the twelve , and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , be sent them , hee tooke them from their fishing , and made them fishers of men ; and Matth. 10. 10. hee calleth them workmen worthy of their hire : private Prophets are not gifted , nor sent , nor taken from their callings , nor are they workmen deserving stipend , for that is due to Prophets by office , 1 Cor. 9. 13. 14. Gal. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 17.

3. Those who have power to dispense the seales of grace , and to baptize , are not private or unofficed Prophets , but sent of God and in office , as Matth. 28. 19. 1 Cor. 1. 17. and a a Iustific . pag. Robinson granteth this , and so doe Separatists teach b b Confess . of Separatists , Art . 21. . But the Disciples of Christ , before his resurrection , baptized , Ioh. 4. 2.

4. Those who were witnesses of the life , miracles , doctrine of Christ , and preached the same , and confirmed it by miracles , were pastors .

5. Those who were twelve selected men chosen , Luk. 6. 13. named Apostles , Mark . 9. 35. Mark . 10. 32. Luk. 8. 1. to whom the keyes of the kingdome were given , Matth. 18. 17 , 18 , 19. Matth. 16. 19. are not unofficed men .

6. This is a Popish opinion , and to be suspected , for Papists to advance Peter to a Popedome , will have him no Apostle , while after the resurrection , for c c Bellarmin . desacr . ord. 1. cap. 9. Bellarmine saith , Imposition of hands is essentiall to holy orders , and that the Apostle ordained no Presbyters while Christ was risen , and made the Apostles and gave them the holy Spirit : d d Concil. Trident. Sess. 23. cap. 4. The Councell of Trent hinteth at the same opinion ; Bellarmine saith the Apostles were made Priests , at the last Supper , to sacrifice Christs body , but not Presbyters till after that , when they received the holy Ghost ; and e e Hosius in confes . Polonica tit . 50. Cardinall Hosius , f f Martinus Ledesma in 4. qu●st . 36. art. 4. ad . 1. Martinus Ledesma , g g Pet. a Soto de sacram . ordinis Lect. 5. Petrus a Soto say the Disciples are made Apostles , Ioh. 21. h h Toletus com . in Ioan. 21. an . 21 : Toletus saith they had power before this time to preach , but not to forgive sinnes , in the Sacrament of pennance while now . And i i Cajetanus comment . in Ioan. 21. ideo hoc loco instituitur & promulgatur Sacramentum poenitentiae . Cardinall Cajetan saith here was first the Sacrament of pennance ordained : and it is true k k Cyrillus lib. 112. cap. 56. Cyrillus and l l Chrysostome in Ioan. homil . 88. Chrysostome say that Iohn 21. Soli sacerdotes , onely Pastors by this place have power to forgive sinnes , but not by this place onely , for they say that Matth. 16. power is given , m m Joan. de Lugo , tomo de Saram . paenit disp. 18. sect. 1. Joannes de Lugo the Popes Professor at Rome , teach , that Joh. 21. the Apostles first received this power . And jayne with him n n Suarez disp . 7. de censura sect . 6. not . 6. Suarez o o Sanchez in decalog . lib. 2. c. 13. n. 13. Thomas Sanchez , p p Aegidius Coniuk de Sacr. disp . 24. n. 236. Aegidius Coniuk q q Vasquez Tom. de excom. dub . 18. n. 9. and Vasquez , though as good as they say the contrary , as r r Pano●mit . in dic● . a nobis , &c. n. 10. Panormitanus , a late Schooleman , s s Avila de censur is part . 2. cap. 7. disp 1. Dub. 9. Avila , and t t Sylvester verbo subsolvo 1. n. 8. Sylvester , and u u Ioan. Episcop. Rossens . de potest . Papae in temporabus lib. 2. cap. 3. John Bishop of Rochester writing against Papists , and their Popes power of dethroning Kings , saith , how could the Apostles who are examples of good order preach and baptize , if they were meere Layicks , and not Pastors while , after Christ was arisen from the dead ?

x x Peoples plea , pag. 42 , 43. Robinson citeth Luk. 8. 39. Christ biddeth the dispossessed man g●shew what great things the Lord had done for him , and hee went and preached it ; now miracles are a part of the Gospel , and written that we should beleeve , Joh. 20. 30. and they prove that Jesus is the Sonne of God . Ergo , This man being no Prophet , preached the Gospel .

Answ. 1. This will not conclude the Question . 1. One man published one single miracle wrought upon himselfe , which is a part of the Gospel onely . 2. And upon a particular occasion did show what things the Lord had done for him . 3. He is commanded to publish it to his friends , and domesticks onely , Matth. 5. 19. Go to thy house , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 to thine owne friends , and show them what the Lord hath done for thee . Hence from this narrow antecedent a vaste and broad conclusion is drawne ; Ergo , it is lawfull , because this man published one particular of the Gospel , for any gifted man to preach the whole Gospell , because one man did it upon a miraculous occasion to his friends ; Ergo , all gifted men may prophesie the whole Gospel to all the Churches ordinarily , it is a vaine consequence . 2. Because hee published one particular , upon a particular exigence , therefore any gifted man may ordinarily , and weekly and daily Preach for the conversion of soules . 3. Because hee published one miracle to his friends in a private way , therefore any gifted man may preach the whole Gospell in publick , to all the Church , truly here is a weake reason .

2. It is most like that this man was an intruding Prophet , like the Separatists Prophets , for he requested that hee might be with Jesus , and bee made a Disciple to preach the Gospell , as Calvin , Marlorat , Bullinger expone it ; but Jesus suffered him not . Now if Christ had commanded him to be a Prophet , as Robinson will have him , he should have granted what he sought .

Lastly , the man did more then Christ commanded , for Mark. 9. 20. Hee published it in Decapolis throughout all the citie , whereas Christ had limited the publishing thereof to his friends and house onely .

Robinson saith , Luk. 10. The Seventie Disciples preached , and yet Pag. 44. they were men out of office .

I answer . 1. The Seventie Disciples were Pastors in office . 1. Satan by their ministery fell from heaven as lightning , v. 19. Christ saith , Behold I give you power to tread upon serpents , Luk. 10. 1. After these things the Lord apponted other Seventie , and sent them out ; here is a cleare calling , they confirme their doctrine by miracles , and casting out of devills , as the twelve Apostles . 2. Christ sent out , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , also other Seventie , Ergo , as hee gave a calling to the Twelve , so hee did to these Seventie , and the same pa●●orall commission is given to them . Behold , I send you &c. Luk. 10. 3 , 4 , 5 , 6.

3. The Seventie are called workmen , sent out to the Lords harvest , Luk. 10. 2. and the same is said of Shepheards in office , Matth. 8. 36 , 37 , 38. to whom wages are due , as to Pastors in Office , 1 Cor. 9. 13 , 14. Gal. 6. 6. 1 Tim. 5. 17.

3. It is said by Christ of these Seventie , He that heareth you heareth me , he that despiseth you despiseth me . Ergo , they were Ambassadors in Christs stead , as Pastors in office are , 2 Cor. 5. 20.

The Samaritane woman ( saith Robinson ) Job . 4. 28. Preached , Pag 44 , 45 , 46. and many of the Samaritans beleeved because of her , v. 39. and without preaching of the word of God , none can beleeve , Rom. 10. 14 , 15. If a woman may teach without the Church , then may a man teach in the Church .

Answ. 1. A woman may teach . 2. In a non-constituted Church , where there is no salvation , and they worship they know not what , Joh. 4. 22. 3. A woman may occasionally declare one point of the Gospel , that Maries Sonne is Christ ; but hence it followeth not , Therefore , 1 a man , 2 in a constituted Church , 3 may ordinarily preach the whole Gospell to the Church in publick : a weake sparre for so vast a roofe .

2. He abuseth the place , Rom. 10. 14. and would hence prove that a woman or any gifted teacher , is a sent Preacher by whom faith ordinarily commeth ; for otherwayes who dare deny but faith commeth by reading ? and just as the Catechise of Raecovia exponeth the place , Rom. 10. 14. to evert the necessitie of a sent ministery , so doth Robinson expone the place .

Robinson , Act. 8. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. Act. 11. 20 , 21. All the Churches Pag. 46 , 47 , 48 , 49. were scattered abroad , except the Apostles , and those who were scattered , preached every where the Gospell , Ergo , Disciples out of office may lawfully preach the Gospel .

Answ. Whether these of the scattered Church , who preached , were the Seventie Disciples , as learned Divines thinke , I dispute not ; But that they were Prophets out of office , the Text saith not . But that they were extraordinarily gifted Prophets who preached , I conceive the text doth insinuate , for it is said , Act. 11. 21. The hand of the Lord was with them , the very word which is , Ezek. 3. 14. The hand of the Lord was strong with me .

2. In a scattered and dissolved Church , gifted persons may prophesie , Ergo , in a constituted Church gifted persons are the ordinary and onely Ministers of conversion , though they bee never called to the office , it doth no wayes follow .

Robinson saith , it is not reasonable to think that they were all extraordinary Prophets , and that if they were immediately inspired , there had beene no need of so speedy sending of Barnabas from Hierusalem to Antioch with supply , though he were a man full of the holy Ghost , for ●● were such Prophets as well as ●ee , Ephes. 2. 20. and 3. 5.

Answ. Wee doe not affirme , that all and every one of the Church , even women and children were extraordinarily gifted , but whether their gift was ordinary or extraordinary , the Text doth not say that they were Prophets out of office , and the Law of disputing saith , Affirmanti incumbit probatio ; the hand of God was with them , as it useth to bee with Prophets .

2. They travelled as farre as Phenice , Cyprus and Antioch , preaching the word of the Lord , this is that which the Apostolick planters of Churches did , as Master builders , laying the foundation Calvin Com. in Act. 11 21. of Churches , and Calvin calleth them Ministers , planters of the Gospel . Nor is it like that Prophets not in office , would so travell and preach the Gospel to the Gentile ●s and Calvin saith , singulari Dei impulsu hoc factum , and that many were turned unto the Lord . 2. Barnabas saw the grace of God in them . 3. And exhorted them that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord , Ergo , there was grace and a profession visible of cleaving to the Lord , before Barnabas came , and so a founded Church ; and if it had beene done by gifted Christians of ordinary gifts , and wanting the spirit of Prophecy , the work had been the more illustrious , and it would not have beene concealed , yea and helpe in so great an harvest by Barnabas an Apostolick man , was very needfull , the number being so great of those who were converted to the faith , seeing the great Apostles sought helpe , and Paul tooke Titus and Timothy with him often , for helping the worke of the Lord .

The next Scripture ( saith Robinson ) is 1 Pet. 4. 10 , 11. As every man hath received the gift , so let him minister as good stewards of Pag. 49. the manifold graces of God ; if any man speake , let him speake as the oracles of God .

Answ. This saith with us , for private Christians are not stewards ; who gave them the keyes ? Yea 1 Cor. 4. 1. it is a word of office , and it is not given to Ministers not in office , as Beza observeth well ; he setteth downe one generall , that the Ministers be ready to distribute , and then two species . 1 Preaching Ministers , that they speake the Oracles of God . 2. Serving Ministers , Elders and Deacons , that they minister out of the habilitie that God giveth them ; and the place is against private Prophets .

Robinson alledgeth , Revel. 11. 3. I will give power to my two witnesses , and they shall prophecy a thousand two hundreth and sixtie dayes , clothed in sackcloth . The Clergie men are not onely witnesses against the Antichrist . In the Antichrists raigne , no Church officer , a● an● officer , witnesseth against him , but all for him , as both having their authority from him , and binding themselves to submit their doctrine to his censure . The persons indeed that were officers , even Masse-Priests , Monkes , and Friers , witnessed some of them against him , but so did not their office , something was extraordinary , I acknowledge , in respect of the then prevailing order , and in respect of their degree of gifts and graces , but no extraordinary and miraculous gift of prophecying : and Brightman exponeth the two witnesses to bee the holy Scriptures and assemblies of the faithfull .

Answ. The two witnesses ( saith a a Iunius annot. in locum Apocalyps . Junius ) are the Ministers , for number , few , and for place , contemptible , so saith Couper ; b b Cooper on Revel . 10. and c c Pareus comment in Apocalyps . cap. 10. Paraeus induceth many paires of witnesses , as in Bohemia , John Hus , and Jerome of Prague , An. 1415 , 1416. in Saxonie , Luther and Melancthon ; in Argentine Bucer and Cariton ; in Helvetia , Zwinglius and Oecolampadius ; in France , Farell , and Calvin , and these were Pastors in office . We need not stand upon the number of two , but because two is the least and fewest number , the witnesses were two . But first there is no reason to fetter and restrict the Text , to witnesses and Martyrs out of office , excluding the Ministers and Prophets in office , and to inferre thence that gifted persons in a constitute Church are the ordinary Ministers of conversion . 1. These two witnesses did prophecie in the midst of Popish Babylon , where God had no visible Church . They did upon a particular exigence , being called thereunto as the Martyrs of Christ , to give a witnesse for Christ against Antichrist , and they sealed the truth with their blood : but the consequence is null , a Martyr at the stake , though no Pastor , may give a confession of his faith , to the persecutors , as Stephen did . Therefore a gifted person not in office , may ordinarily preach in the Church . I would not buy such logick with a rotten nut . 3. Many women were witnesses and Martyrs , and gave a testimony against Antichrist ; Ergo women may preach in the Church : what vanitie is this ?

2. Also if those witnesses had an extraordinary measure of gifts and graces to beare witnesse to the truth , it followeth not ; Ergo , Christians gifted with an ordinary measure of the Spirit are ordinary Prophets for the conversion of soules .

2. Though these witnesses were only unofficed Prophets , yet the prophecying ascribed to them , after they arose from the dead , will not inferre that unofficed Prophets are ordinarily to preach , for the rising againe of slaine Prophets is not to be exponed of the raising againe of the persons of unofficed Prophets to preach , but it is to be exponed of the rising againe of the buried Gospel ; which in the ministery of faithfull Pastors and in other new Martyrs , Pastors and others arose againe from the dead , with the Spirit and power of these Martyrs , and that buried truth , that was in former times persecuted by Antichrist did now revive againe to the wondering of Babylon ; for the intent of the Spirit is to show that the Gospel , and true Church , slaine and buried , shall arise againe within a short time , as three dayes and a halfe .

4. It is vaine that he saith none of the Clergy witnessed and prophecied against Antichrist ; he is not versed in the Churches history who teacheth so , for Monkes and Fryars were Ministers , ( though their office unlawfull ) and as Ministers of Christ . Luther , Melancthon , and thousands other gave testimony against Antichrist .

Robinson addeth , Revel. 14. 6. Where an Angell flyeth in the midst Pag. 52 , 53. of heaven , that is , in the visible Church , having the everlasting Gospell to preach to them that dwell on the earth , and to every nation and kinred . That is , God raised men in the midst of popery , not miraculously inspired ( for you can show me no such ) who preached the Gospel , not by vertue of an office ; The office of a Friar , Monk , or Mass●-Priest , is no ministery of Christs appointment ; and when they gave their clearest testimony , they were almost all excluded out of Rome , and so in respect of their personall gifts and graces , they were Angels of God , in respect of their office , they were Angels of Antichrist .

Answ. 1. There is no reason to reject the interpretation of d d Iunius annot. in cap. 14. Junius , that this Angell was a type of the servants of God , who opposed Popery after the times of Bonifacius the eight , as Cassiodorus the Italian , Arnoldus de villa nova , Occam , Dantes , Petrarcha , Ioann●s de Rupe the Franciscan , Wickliff ; And Pareus e e Paraeus in locum . refers the type to Wickliffe , Marsilius Patavinus , Petrarcha ; Our country man f f Napper Comment . on the Revel. ch. 14. Napper exponeth it of Luther , Melancthon , and Calvin in the seventh age , Anno 1541 , and it is false that they were all excommunicated , and though the accident of their office , to be a Monke , a Fryar , was Antichristian , yet the ministery it selfe was of Christ , and by it they did preach against Antichrist , as they did validely baptize , for I hope they did not baptize as unofficed Prophets . Lastly , this Angel did not preach in the visible Church , but in the midst of Popery , and therefore doth not prove it is lawfull in a true visible constituted Church , for gifted Prophets out of office , to bee ordinary Preachers .

Robinson much urgeth the place , 1 Cor. 14. 1 Because the Apostle speaketh of the manifestation of the gifts and graces common to all , Par. 54. 55. as well brethren as ministers , ordinary as extraordinary . 2. Hee speaketh of the fruits common to all , edification , exhortation , and comfort , compared with , 1 Thess. 5. 11. 14. and of that which at all times remaineth amongst the Christians , to wit , love .

Answ. The cohesion of this Chapter with the former is cleare , charitie should be followed , because so excellent . Therefore cover gifts , which are most conducing to love and edification , and that is to prophecie ; he proveth excellencie of prophecying above others , and teacheth in this Chapter the right ordering of publick Church meeting .

Now Robinsons Argument is this , if it stand good , As many as may love one another , and may edifie , exhort and comfort one another , may expresse their love by publick prophecying , for edification in love : but all Christians , even such as are not in Church-state , nor officers , are to love one another , to edifie , exhort and comfort one another . Ergo.

The proposition is most false ; women are obliged to love one another , and to exhort and edifie one another , Prov. 31. 26. Til. 2. 3. yet can they not prophesie in the Church , 1 Cor. 14. 34 , 35. yea excommunicated persons are not loosed from the duties of love and mutuall rebuking in private , if they may bee exhorted as brethren , 1 Thess. 3. 15. They may exhort and rebuke others , Levit. 19. 17. which the law of nature requireth , yea Peter as a Pastor out of love to Christ is to preach , Ioh. 21. 15. 16 , 17. But therefore private Christians are not obliged to Pastorall preaching , and administration of the Seales , which are expressions of the love of Christ , yet to administer Sacraments is an act of edification , is therefore every act of edification and love common to all , because to love , and in some private way , to edifie all , is incumbent as a dutie to all ? nay a King out of love of Christ , should governe Gods people , a Captaine fight Gods battells , a Sea man saile , & a Professor teach in the Schooles ; will it follow , because to love one another is common , that all private men may bee Kings , may kill men in battell , and that the Plowman should saile and invade the Mariners calling ? this were Anabaptisticall confusion of places and callings , and should evert states , places , charges and callings , and overturne Church and State , and make the Church an old Chaos ; the God of order hath not so ordered callings and places . But ( saith the man ) if the end , which is edification and comfort , continueth , therefore the gift of prophecying continueth .

Answ. 1. Prophecying continueth , who taketh it out of the world ? It continueth in such , as God hath set in the Church for that end and use , 1 Cor. 12. 29. but not in all , and every Plowman , who in his place is obliged to edifie .

2. The Argument is also weake , that continueth , the end whereof continueth , forso circumcision , passeover , sacrificing , the end of all which was edifying , should continue in the Church : Mr. Yates answered to him , extraordinary gifts , as strange tongues , miracles , are for edification , yet they continue not . Mr. Robinson answereth to him , strange tongues and the office of the Ministery doe not properly edifie , but the use of strange tongues .

I answer , there doth much weaknesse here appeare , love in Mr. Robinsons breast doth not edifie , nor his habit of prophecying , but the acts of expressions of love , and the use of prophecying , edifieth , and for that cause wee may well say that the office doth edifie

There being ( saith Robinson ) no other meanes to edifie , exhort , and Pag. 97. comfort , left in the Church , but propbecying , Paul argueth from the common grace of love , as well upon brethren as officers , to ordinary , as to extraordinary , and at all times prophecying , that all out of office may prophesie to the worlds end , if they have gifts .

Answ. Is there no meanes to edifie , exhort , and comfort , but prophecying ? and that prophecying publick in the Church and pastorall ? that is denyed , what say you of private and domestick exhorting , praying , praysing , reading , and Christian conference , Coloss. 3. 16. Mal. 3. 16. Zach. 8. 21. are not they singular meanes of edifying ? hath Christ left no meanes of edifying , exhorting , and comforting , but the publick prophecying of Clothiers , Mariners , Fashioners ? 2. Faith commeth by hearing of a sent minister , Rom. 10. 14. It pleased God by preaching , of sent Pastors , 1 Cor. 1. 17. 21. to save those who beleeve .

Robinson . 2 Argu. v. 31. You may all prophesie , that all may learne , that all may be comforted ; be speakes of prophecying of all , as largely as of learning of all , according to the received rule of exponing the notes of universalitie .

Answ. Women , ungifted brethren , infidels in the Church , by his owne grant , may learne , but they may not prophesie in the Church , Ergo , many more are to learne then may prophesie : and the one ( All ) is narrower then the other , for all are not Prophets , 1 Cor 12. 29. therefore all may not prophesie in one and the same verse , 1 Cor. 11. v. 32. and Isa. 53. v. 6. the notes of universalitie , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ( wee all ) are taken divers wayes ; yea one and the same word applyed to divers subjects is taken divers wayes , as 1 Sam. 12. 18. And the people greatly feared the Lord and Samuel ; and my sonne ( saith the Wise man ) seare the Lord and the King . Prov. 24. 21.

Mr. Yates said well , all ought to have the gift of hearing , but not of prophecying . Robinson answereth , every particular person is not bound to have the gift of prophecying , but if he speake to purpose , he must say , that no ordinary brethren out of office ought to have the gift of praphesie , which if it be true , then ought none to strive for fitnesse to become officers , neither were that reproofe just , Heb. 5. 11.

Answ. He speaketh to purpose , to destroy your Argument , which you destroy your selfe , while as you grant , many may learne who may not prophecie . 2. Hee may say truely , no ordinary brethren out of office , but purposed to remaine artificers , are to strive for fitnesse to the office of ministery ; but many out of office may have the gift of prophecying , who are not Prophets ; and you grant , I thinke , many are gifted to be Kings , who neither are Kings , nor may lawfully exercise acts of royall majestie , without treason both to God and their King : For the place , Heb. 5. 11. the Apostle rebukes the Hebrewes , both officers and people as dull of hearing , whereas they ought to bee teachers of others , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , that is , ( as you expone it ) Prophets out of office , who ought to prophesie publickly to the edifying of the Church . But take home this Argument thus . Those whom the Apostle rebuketh as dull of hearing , who ought to bee teachers and unofficed Prophets , are obliged to be indeed such Prophets ; for a rebuke is for the omission of a morall dutie which wee are oblieged to doe , or for the committing the contrary , but he rebuketh teachers in office , women , children , and ungifted brethren as dull as hearing , for that they ought to be Prophets & were not , Ergo , all , even teachers in office , women , children and ungifted brethren ought to be Prophets not in office . Now the conclusion is absurd and against your selfe , for you say , Pag. 58. every particular person in the Church is not bound to have the gift of prophecying , women are not bound I am sure , yet are women rebuked for being dull of hearing , and for that they ought to be teachers of others , and were not .

2. Hence it is cleare that you corrupt the word of God , and to be teachers , in that place , is to be such , as so aboundeth in the knowledge of God , as to teach , rebuke , admonish , and comfort mutually one another in a private way , not to preach publikely in the Church , for the ordinary conversion of soules , for which sort of Prophets you do contend .

Robinson addeth . The Apostle cannot meane extraordinary Prophets , 1 Cor. 14. there could not bee such a number of extraordinary Prophets , now when extraordinary Prophets were beginning to cease in the Church .

Answ. 1. When the Church of Corinth abounded in every thing , in all knowledge , and utterance , and came behind in no gift , 1 Cor. 1. 5. 7. and so much grace was given them in Jesus Christ , v. 4. It is cleare there were abundance of Prophets even then in Corinth .

2. It is not to purpose for lay-Prophets whether they were ordinary or extraordinary Prophets . They were Prophets as the Spirit of God calleth them , 1 Cor. 12. 29. set in the Church as officers , even as Apostles , and Governors , and Teachers , who are officers . And there is no reason that you should impose significations on words , at your owne pleasure , without warrant of the Word . Now shew us in all the old , or new Testament , when the word Prophet signifieth a naked gifted man out of office , in the Lords house , for you have as good warrant for you to say there were lay-Apostles , lay-Teachers , lay-Governors , who were gifted persons not in office , as you have for lay-Prophets .

3. Multitude of Prophets may consist with the time , when Seers and foretellers of things revealed in visions were beginnings to cease , even as the gifts of the holy Ghost given abundantly at the Pentecost , Act. 2. 17. 18. Ioel 2. 28. did consist with the time when things concerning Christ must now have an end , Luk. 22. 37. Luk. 24. 44. pag. 59. and 63.

Robinsons 3. Argument is . The Apostle in forbidding women to prophesie in the Church , licenceth men . 1. The Apostle in , and for the worke , opposeth the men to the women , Sexe to Sexe , and in forbidding women , hee must license men , when the holy Ghost opposeth faith and workes in the cause of justification and denyeth that we are justified by workes , is not then the consequence good , we are justified by faith ? 2. If in prohibiting women he gave not libertie to men , where were the prerogative of men above women , which is the onely ground upon which hee buildeth the prohibition ? 3. Ver. 34. 35. Women are not permitted to speake in the Church , yet may they speake to their husbands at home ; now if the husbands might not speake in the Church more then the women , what reason can be rendred of the Apostle his so speaking ? 4. The Apostle in the whole Chapter , taketh order that some should prophesie in the Church , and debarring women therefrom , he must either admit men , or then we have a third sort of Persons to prophesie , who are neither men , nor women .

Answ. Here is a great noyse of Arguments for just nothing , and a faire sophisme , concluding that secundum quid , which should be concluded 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; for we deny not but some men in office are permitted , yea and commanded to prophesie in publick ; and we grant that Sex and Sex are opposed , but the opposition made by Robinson is creeple and throwne-backed , for all and every one of mankind are not permitted to prophesie , as all and every woman is forbidden to prophesie or teach in the Church ; by the Lawes of France a woman may not sit on the Throne and sway the Scepter ; but friend , can you say then the Lawes of France doth license any Frenchman whatsoever he be to sit on the throne and be King ? Mr. Robinson proveth men are licensed to preach , Sed indefinita propositio in materia contingente ●quipollet particulari , but he knoweth all men are not licenced to prophesie in publick , for ungifted men are not sent of God , and we say , neither all gifted tradesmen , never called by the Church , nor educated in Schooles , or sent of God to preach in the Church . This he covereth and proveth never , onely he setteth downe foure armies of Arguments to prove , I know not what , to prove forsooth that men may prophesie in publike , and not women , but who denyeth that ? And the similitude of faith and workes crooketh here , for saving faith is opposed to all good workes whatsoever , both in kind and individualls , for wee are neither justified by good workes in specie , nor by any one good worke in individuo , but though all women be debarred from teaching in the Church , yet are not all men licensed to teach in the Church , but onely those ( say we ) who are called of God , as was Aaron . 2. I would bandy the Argument thus ; It is not permitted to women to administer the Sacraments , Ergo , It is permitted for any man , though not a Prophet by office , to administer the Sacraments . The Antecedent is Pauls , the consequence is yours ; and so all these foure Arguments prove not what is in question , to with that ; Ergo , a gifted person not in office may preach publickly .

Mr. Robinson addeth , In restrayning women he sheweth his meaning to be of ordinary , not of extraordinary Prophets , because women Pag. 59. immediatly and extraordinarily inspired , might speak without restraint , Exod. 15. 20. Jud. 4. 24. Luk. 2. 36. Act. 2. 17 , 18.

Answ. Robinson cannot show that the same kind of prophecying in women , v. 34. is taxed by Paul , which is regulated in men , v. 26 , 27 , 28. and therefore that connexion is denied , hee restraineth women from ordinary prophecying in the temple , Ergo he speaketh of the ordinary prophecying of men ; for , 1. he compareth prophecying with tongues , extraordinary with extraordinary , and he desireth them to covet to prophesie , ordinary he cannot meane , for in all the Word you find not private professors are commanded to desire to bee ordinary Prophets , for so God should command them to pray , that they might leave their callings and stations , contrary to 1 Cor. 7. 20. and give themselves to study sciences and tongues : for if the holy Ghost command the meanes , he must command the end , and if hee command the end , hee must command the meanes . But v. 34. he setteth downe a new canon about women who tooke on them to prophesie publickly , and hee inhibiteth so much as ordinary prophecying , yea so much as speaking in the Church ; and I deny not but a a Irenaus adversus Hares . lib. 2 cap. 57. Irenaeus , b b Fusebius , bistoria eccles l. 5. cap. 7. Tertullian . Cyrill . Chrysostom . Theophylact. Robinson , pag. 66 , 67. Eusebius , yea and Tertullian , Cyrill , Chrysostome , Theophylactus , with warrant teach , that alwayes women extraordinarily inspired may prophesie , for in that God immediately exalteth them above men . But for ordinary prophecying in publick , it is of morall equitie , and perpetuall , that the women should not teach , for Adam was first formed ; this Paul bringeth as a morall argument against womens preaching .

His fourth Argument is from 29 and 32. verses . Let the Prophets speake two or three , and let the rest judge . The Apostle cannot ( saith Robinson ) speake of extraordinary Prophets , for they cannot erre , but are infallible ; but the Prophets here spoken of are not infallible , because they are to be censured , and their doctrine judged by the Prophets : now if such could erre , our faith were not immediately builded upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles .

Answ. This is before examined by me , the consequence is null , for the holy Spirit ( saith Pareus ) did not dite all things which the Prophets spake , they might have mixed in some thing Par●us com . ibi . of their owne . Pauls presbytery , chap. 16. pag. 251 , 252. pag 69. 70.

Robinson saith , that Paul could not have said , ( if any thinke himselfe to be a Prophet , &c. let such an one acknowledge that the thing I wrote are the commandements of the Lord ) if these had beene extraordinary Prophets , they should have knowne Pauls writings undoubtedly to have beene the Canonick word of God , and could not have beene ignorant thereof .

Answ. This presupponeth that these extraordinary Prophets might have beene ignorant , that the Apostles commandements was the commandements of the Lord , which is not absurd , for Nathan and Samuel were ignorant of Gods will in some points , for Prophets see and know sometimes as men , and sometimes as Prophets , in the former they may erre , in the latter they are infallible .

He subjoyneth . The word of God came it to you , or came it from you ? if the word of God came after a sort to the Corinthians , and not from them , then were they not immediatly and extraordinarily inspired , whereas indeed the Word of God came from the Apostles .

Answ. This proveth not the point , for hee condemneth the arrogancie of some immediately inspired Prophets , Came the word of God from you ? that is , are yee above the Apostle to whom the word of God was committed , that it may bee preached to all the world , that it might come from the Apostles to others ? Or came it to you onely , as to the only Apostolick teachers , that you neede no admonition ? but hence it followeth not , but they were extraordinarily inspired Prophets , for Peter might be rebuked , though an Apostle & a chief one . Neither is it any imputation to Paul , or to any who hath received the Spirit in measure , to be censured . It is true , Canonick doctrine , as it is such , cannot be censured , but the teachers thereof , though infallible , even Paul , Act. 17. 10 , 11. and every spirit is to bee tried , whether they be of God or no , 1 Joh. 3. 1. yea to say that the Church cannot be builded upon the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles ( as Mr. Robinson saith , pag. 68. ) if these Prophets extraordinary can erre , or can bee subject to the censure and judgement of the Church , is the very argument of Papists ; for they say , that the Word of God borroweth authoritie quoad nos , in respect of us , from the Church , and is to be beleeved , because Peter , Paul , the Prophets and Apostles , the then present Church , say it is the Word of God . So a a Stapleton apud Whittaker . de sac . Script . Authorit. l. 3. c. 3. arg. 3. sect. Bellarmine , Valentinian Gretserus . Stapleton ( as Whittakerne teacheth ) that Christ was the Sonne of God , dependeth to our faith upon the testimony of John Baptist. See Bellarmine , Gregorius de Valent. Gretser ; So three famous commentators say , b b Transenius harmon . c. 36. Jansenius , c c Cajetan com . in loan . 5. in hoc ab ho●nine non accipio . Cardinalis Cajetan , and d d Toletus in . Ioh. 5. tom . 1. Cardinalis Toletus . But our Divines answer , that the Word of God is true in it selfe , and the authentick ground of our faith , not because the Prophets and Apostles say it is the word of God , not because Paul or an Angel from heaven saith it is so , Gal. 1. 8. for even the Prophets and Apostles were but men , and so their testimony not infallible , but because God himselfe saith so . See for this e e Rivetus tom . 1. contrav . trac . 1. q. 6. Rivetus , f f Whittakerus to . 2. desac . Scrip. authorit. lib. 3. c. ●r . 5. Whittakerus , g g Bucer in Ioan. 5. de testimonio Baptistae . Bucerus , h h Calvinus in art . 17. v. 10 , 11. Calvinus , yea and the Fathers most expressely say , that the Prophets and Apostles are not the foundation of our faith , nor their word , because they were infallible , but Gods word , by their mouths and penne . So i i Theapl●y● . in a●t 1● ibid. Thea●●●lact , k k Chrysost in Ioan. hom . 39. Chrysostome , l l Beda in Ioan. cap 5. Beda , m m Ambrosius in ● . Tim. Ambrosius , n n Occam . d●ale . l. 5. ca. 2 par. 1. & c. 3. probatu● quod pap● Canonice electus manens papa potest errare a fide & bareticari , quindecem ration●bus . Occam , and o o Gerson de infallibilitat Papae , consid. 12 Gerson doe roundly acknowledge that their Popes word is not the foundation of faith , quia Papa potest hereti●ari , because the Pope may erre . What ? because Samuel was deceived in calling Eliah the Lords annointed , are not his bookes a part of canonick doctrine , whereupon our faith is builded ?

Lastly saith p p Robinson . Pag 70. 71. Robinson , Pastors must preach and pray before they hee put in office , otherwise they cannot bee tr●ed , if they bee apt to teach , as they must be , 1 Tim. 3. 2. Tit. 1. 9. It is decreed that all may preach , q q Synod of England . Ministers , Teachers , Elders , Deacons , and if there beam , ex ipsa plebe , any of the common people , who would imploy their gift for the good of the Church , and it is practised in the Colledges , where all must preach , though they were never Priests .

Answ. 1. It is lawfull , that these ayming at the office ; 2. Brought up in humane sciences ; 3. Called by the Church preach , by way of tryall , before they be admitted to the office : but hence it cannot be concluded , that tradesmen and artificersvoyd of learning and ignorant of the Scriptures should preach , not for try all , or as ayming at the office of the Ministery , but as ordinary ministers of the conversion of soules to the faith , and that without any calling of the Church either to the office , or to the degree preparatorie to the office .

2. All gifted should preach , yea and in England ought to bee put in office , where there is a reading ministery which Christ never ordained to bee in his house , and this the harmony of confession and Synods teach , and no more . It is a fault that in Colledges all doe preach , whether Christ hath called them , or not ; such unsent runners Mr. Robinson cannot approve . r r Ambrosius com . in 4 Eph. ut ●resecret plebs & multiplicaretur , omnibus inter initia concessum est & Exangelizare , & Baptiza●e . Ambrose saith at the beginning it was granted that all should preach , and baptize , that the Church might grow ; and s s Origenin Num. hom . 11. cap. 8. Origen said the same . But otherwise t t Hieronymus comment . in Matth. in prcaemi● . Hieronymus saith , it is praesumptio temeritatis , a rash presumption for any to preach , who are not sent ; and u u Theophylact . in art . 20. Theophylact calleth them false Prophets ; x x Augustin . contr. Faustum , lib. 16. c. 12. Augustine will have them all to come before Christ , and so to bee theeves and robbers who commeth not sent , Sicut Moses & Prophet● , as Moses and the Prophets were sent . y y Coachman . Coachman saith , if preaching be tyed to the ministery , and that order , there shall neither bee faith nor grace in a Church where there is no ministery .

Answ. It followeth not , for faith may come by reading , by conference , and you expone , Rom. 10. 14. As Arminians and Socinians doe . 2. We as Embassadors pray you in Christs stead to be reconciled , 2 Cor. 5. 20. Ephes. 4. 11. 1 Cor. 12. 29. Are all Prophets ? Ergo , would you say no reconciliation in a land without apostolick Ambassadors ? It followeth not , ex negatione unius medii , for then there should be no grace , nor salvation , where there be none of your lay-Preachers .

Coachman . Knowledge , judgement , utterance , with gravitie , authoritie , power , maketh a man a Minister , whether he be in office or not ; Preaching is accidentall to the office , and no part of the office , but onely an ornament or appendix of it , a Minister is in full office of the order of Priesthood , though he never preach ; an office maketh not a Preacher , it maketh him onely such a peoples Preacher , when they have chosen him , hee preacheth by vertue of his gift , not by vertue of his office .

Answ. 1. Here are Socinian mysteries revealed , z z Gerard. loc. com . tom. 6. de Minister . eccles. c. 3. sect. 1. n. 70 pag. 78 , 79. Gerardus saith , by this meane the Heretickes called Pepuziani permitted , in the primitive Church , to women , the Ministery of the Sacraments . And upon this ground the Socinians and Anabaptists proceeded , that except a man would digge his Talent in the earth , hee may preach , though he have not a calling of the Church ; so doth Mr. Coachman make talents , as judgement and utterance , enough to constitute one a Minister , whether he be called to the office , or not . And Gerardus setteth downe a good answer of a a Luthe●us tom . 2. Com. in Ps. 8. fol 96 lat. tradidi● quidem Dominus talenta servis . sed non ●●si ●●catis . expecta igitur & ●u donec vocc● is , intereane amb●●s . Luther to the Argument . God giveth talents , but to those whom hee calleth , therefore gifted men should in the use of their calling attend and accept the calling of God . It may be the Church perversly set , denyeth a calling to one who is gifted . Then I say , let him use his talent in private . God reapeth not where he doth not sow .

2. This is a wild saying , A man is a Minister whether he be in office or not . A ministery is essentially an office , or a place that the Lord hath called a man unto , else define what an officer is , and how can he expone that , Rom. 10. 14. how can they preach except they he sent ? if as our Divines doe ? then none are sent , but such as are called to the office , and this is against him , if as S●ini●ns say , all gifted men are sent of God to preach , then gifts essentially constituteth a sent man , and what is a sent man , ●ut a man called to the office ?

3. Preaching is accidentall to the office of a man that maketh court and the world his conscience , it is true indeed , but that preaching is accidentall to the office of a Pastor , is Popish and Prelaticall ; for what is essentiall to the office ? to administer the Sacrament and consecrate the body of Christ ? Well said for the Popish cause . b b Fugeni● de - 〈…〉 . Pope Eugenius in his decree and the councell of Florentine teach us , that the essential forme of the office of the Priests is in these words , receive power to offer a sacrifice in the Church , for the living and the dead : for saith c c Scotus in l. 4. d 24 q. 1. Scotus and the Councell of d d Concil●i T●i. d●ntine . s●ss . 14. cap. 1. Trent teach us , that all the essentials of the Priesthood be in two . ● . In a power to consecrate Christs body , and this is given in the last Supper . 2. In a power to absolve a sinner , so saith e e Lodo Meratius tom . 3. trac . de erdi . disp. 7. sect. 1. Bishops preach not , nor is it essentiall to their office , and therfore Papists by contempt call our Ministers , predicant preachers , saith Gerard , tom . 6 q. 3. n. 294 pag. 336. Meratius the Jesuite , where the reader shall observe silence of preaching the word , and f f Bellarm. tom 3. de sacr. ordin . l. 1. c. 4. Bellarmine saith the same ; g g Guliel . Estius l 4. dist. 24. s. 3. Gulielmus Eslius saith , the essentiall and most principall worke of the Priest is to offer Christs body , and then to absolve from sinnes , and this they have from their h h Aquinas supplem . q. 34. act. 4. 5. Master Aquin●s , and further warrant for a Priest essentially dumbe , you may find in Suarez , And Vasquez doth collect from i i Canon . Aposto . lic . 2. 9. 17 , 18. 25. 42. 43. the fainzed Canons of the Apostles from k k Clemens in Epist. 3. ad Iacob . Clemens his Epistles , such a Priest . I desire ( if preaching be accidentall to the office of a Pastor ) to know if feeding of the people , Act. 20. 28. and ●eeding the flock , Ezekiel , 34. 2. be all in administring of the Sacrament . It is strange , if a watchman as as a watchman , and by office , should not preach and give warning , Ezek. 3. 17 , 18. if an Ambassadour , as an Ambassadour , in Christs stead should not pray the people to be reconciled to God , 2 Cor. 5. 20. if a Pastor , as a Pastor , should not feed the flocke with knowledge , Jer. 3. ● . 15. if as a workeman and a Minister he should not divide the word aright , 2 Tim. 2. 15. if as a fisher he should not catch men ; but of this enough . Lastly , 1 Cor. 1. v. 17. Christ sent mee not to baptize , but to preach , Joh. 4. 2. Christ baptized none , but was sent to preach , Luk. 4. 43.

Chap. 5. Sect. 3.

The way of Church judging in New England .

WE doe not ( saith the Author ) carry matters either by an over-ruling power of the presbytery , nor by the consent of Manuscript . The way of the Churches of Christ in New England . the major part of the Church , but by the generall and joynt consent of all the members of the Church , and we are of one accord as the Church of Christ should be , Act. 2. If any disassent out of ignorance , we labour to bring him to our mind , by sound information . 2. If by pride bee disassent , the libertie of his voyce is taken from him . If , 3. the matter be difficill , we seeke advice of sister Churches .

Answ. Unitie is much to be desired in the Church with veritie , but your way we understand not .

Nor doe we in our Synods carry matters by the major and maniest voices , because they are maniest , nor because they are the the voice of men , but because the thing concluded is agreeable to the word of God : but what if the Church be divided , and the people ( upon whose voyces principally the conclusion of the Church dependeth ) goe against both the truth and the Elders ?

They answer , These are miserable mistakes , either to thinke that the people or Elders must needs disassent , or that except they all consent , In the Answ. 10 32. quest. 9. 15. there can be no rule ?

I answer , it is a miserable necessitie , through the corruption of our nature , not a mistake ; for Simon Magus , and fortie like to him , in a Church consisting of threescore , must dissent from twentie , whose hearts are streight in the truth : You have no refuge here , but let the maniest carry the matter to a mischiefe , and the other twentie must separate , and make a new Church presently .

Againe say I , what if the Church differ ? They answer , That ought not to bee , nor will it bee , if the Church will lay aside corrupt Answ. to the 15. quest. judgement and affections , and if they attend the rule , and depend upon Christ , considering the promises made to the Church , Jer. 32. 39. Zech. 3. 9. Matth. 1. 10. But if such a thing fall out , as not often it doth , if the Elders and major part consent , and one disassent ; it is either of corrupt affection , and pride , and so he Ioseth his voyce , or of weaknesse , and then he is to submit his judgement to the Church .

Answ. But to beginne at your last , if one out of weaknesse disassent , he is to submit his judgement to the Church . But I say , what if forty out of weaknesse disassent from twenty , may not that whole Church as well submit to a Synod , as Act. 15. as one must submit his judgement to a Church ? the conscience of one should no more be fettered , then the consciences of a whole Church .

3. I grant the maniest should have Scripture , but what if they say the Scripture , yea and the Apostles are with them , when there is no such thing , as the case was Act. 15. 20. the wrong side alleadged Scripture and the Apostles commandement , when the Apostles gave no such commandement , should you not take Gods remedy to appeale to a Synod , as the Apostolike Church doth ? Act. 15. 6.

They answer , in our Churches hitherto , the major part , yea all mind one thing , as Rom. 15. 16. 1 Cor. 1. 10. Act. 1. 14. I answer , 1. that is because they are in Church-government all one , and a conspiracy in error , is but seeming unity . But 2. I say , good men as Paul and Barnabas will differ . But 3. what if all be wrong of three parts , as 1 Cor. 1. 12. Some said , I am of Paul , some , I am of Apollo , some , I am of Christ ; all the three were wrong , in that case , doth not a Synod by the word of God determine the matter best ? certainly , though Synods may erre , yet are they of themselves Christs lawfull way to preserve veritie and charity and unity . But our brethren answer us , divisions ought not to be , and they will not but all agree in the truth , if the Church will lay aside corrupt judgement , and depend on Christ , Answ. to quest. 15. considering the promises made to the Church , Jer. 32. Ephes. 3. 9. Matth. 18 20. Let me answer , there is much more charity in this answer , then verity . 1. They ought not to disassent from truth : true , but what then ? the remedy is not given except you returne to a Synod ; the division , Act. 15. ought not to be ; the house should not be fired : true , but the question is how shall water be had to quench it , for many things are , which ought not to be . 2. ( Neither will divisions be , ) that is false , 1 Cor. 1. 12. 3. As heresies must be , so scandals must be , our author saith ( they will not be ; they will not be ) ( say the brethren ) if the Church lay aside corrupt judgement , and affection , and attend upon the rule , and depend on Christ . I answer . There is but vanity , and no solidity ( I crave pardon ) in this answer , it is the vaine answer of Arminius in the case of the Saints perseverance . The regenerate ( say they ) cannot fall away if they be not inlaking to Gods grace , and if they in holy feare take heed to their wayes , so saith a a Ar●in . in declar sen. p. 57 Arminius in his Declaration ; and in his b b Armin. ant●perkins . pag. 224. qua●nd●u am●r Det in ipso●u●n cord●bus vigebit , imped●en . ui ne ●ccedant ● D●o . answer to Perkins : so also c c Remonst●an . confess . c. 18. Sect. 6. 7. say the Arminians in their confession , and d d Episcopius disp . 27. ch. 9. Episcopius . But what is this , but regenerate persons shall persevere , upon condition that they shall persevere ? for not to be inlaking to the grace of God , is to cooperate to the grace of God , or with the grace of God , and to cooperate with the grace of God is very perseverance it selfe ; for saith the e e Socinus de just●● . ●●l . 10. quod si a● hac obedientia deficiamus , &c. the wicked Socinus , and f f Smalcius 〈◊〉 7 in Ioan . fol. 78. Smalcius , and so say our brethren , all shall agree in the truth , if they lay aside corrupt judgement . And what is that , if they lay aside corrupt judgement ? that is , if they agree with the truth , and assent to the Word of God . But so it is , that the best regenerate , even Barnabas , a man full of the holy Ghost , Act. 11. doth not lay aside corrupt judgement . But our brethren proveth they will law aside corrupt judgement ; but how ? you alleadge the Papists abused Scriptures , Ier. 32. God promiseth to put his Spirit and feare in his Church , that they shall not depart from the Lord . True ( say I ) they shall not depart from God , providing they lay aside corrupt judgement , as you teach us . But doe you not teach us by your answer to elude these pregnant places , which unanswerably prove the necessity of the perseverance of the regenerated ? But 2. what though God promise to put his feare in the heart of the regenerate ? this promise is not made to the visible Church conveened in a Synod , as it is such , nor will it prove that a Synod shall all agree in the truth , & that the whole Church shall lay aside corrupt judgement , except you serve your selves with these and the like places , as Papists , and by name as Bellarmine , G●etserus , Snarez , Bucanus , Stapleton , Gregorius de Valentia doe serve themselves with them , and the like , to prove that Councels are in fallible . What is said in the fourth Section anent the power of the people in Church-govern●●●● is already examined , onely in the closure thereof , they seeme to give something peculiar to the Elders , which the people have not , which I discusse in the insuing question .

Quest. VIII . What peculiar auhority is in the Eldership , for the which they are over the people , in the Lord , according to the doctrine of our brethren ?

We hold that Christ hath given a superiority to Pastors and Overseers in his House , whereby they are , by office , government , and power of the keyes , above the people . But 1. this authority is limited , and conditionall , not absolute , as if they may doe what they please . 2. It is a power ministeriall , not a Dominion ; for as meere Servants and Ambassadours of Christ , they doe but declare the will and commandement of the King of Kings . 3. When this authority is not exercised by the precise rule and prescript of the Law of God , it is not valid , but null , and of no force . 4. They are so above the people , as 1. they are their Servants , for Christs sake , 2 Cor. 4. 5. yea we are their servants servants : not as if the people had a dominion over the Pastors , or as if they had their authority from the people , they have it immediately from Christ , but because all their service is for the good , and the salvation of the people . 5. They have so superiority , as they are subject to the Prophets to be judged , and censured by the Church representative of Pastors , Doctors and Elders .

It will be found that our brethren give no authority or superiority to the Eldership above the people . In their answers to the 32. questions . We acknowledge ( say they ) a Presbytery , Answ to 32. quest . q. 15. whose worke it is , to teach and rule , and whom the people ought to obey , and condemne a meere popular government , such as our writers condemne in Morellius .

Answ. So say our brethren in their Doctrine , we acknowledge that the people , and gifted men not in office , should teach , and all the faithfull is the governing Church , to which Christ hath committed the keyes , and power of ordination , and highest Church censures , even excmmunication , and that the Elders should obey the Church of beleevers . Ergo , in teaching and ●uling you acknowledge no Presbytery . 2. Seeing you ordaine the Elders to be ordained by the imposition of the peoples hands , to be elected , called , censured , excommunicated , exauthorited , shew us why the people are not the Rulers , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and the Elders ruled . 3. The key of knowledge is a chiefe part of the keyes , and these keyes by which sinnes are remitted and retained , and men bound or loosed on earth and heaven : and seeing Morellius , Anabaptists , and your selves teach that these keyes were given to the whole Church of beleevers , how doe you thinke that people are not in teaching , Overseers as properly as the Elders , and that your government is meerely popular , as Morellius taught ? to say nothing that when you deny your government to be meerely popular , you doe not deny , but it is popular ; for a government meerely popular admitteth of publike men to rule for the people , and we never read of a government in Athens , Lacedemonia , or any where , in the which all the people did actually judge , rule , and command , and so was meerely popular .

But the Word of God giveth a reall superiority to the Pastors and Church guides over the people in the Lord , as Jer. 1. 10. So I have set thee this day over the Nations , and over the Kingdomes , to roote out , and to pull downe , and to destroy , and to throw down , to build and to plant , here is a reall authority given to Jeremiah , onely by his office of his prophecying , without any power of the seales or sacrificing , or judging , or governing , which was the part of the Tribe of Levi , of which Tribe Jeremiah was not , Matth. 10. v. 40. He who receiveth you , receiveth me , Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you , heareth me , he that despiseth you , despiseth me , and he that despiseth me , despiseth him that sent me , John 13. 20. 2 Cor. 10. 8. For though I should boast something of the authority which the Lord hath given us for edisication , and not for your destruction , I should not be ashamed , 1 Cor. 4. 1. Let a man so account of us , as of the Ministers of Christ , and of the Stewards of the mysteries of God , John 20. 23. Whose soever sinnes yee remit , they are remitted , and whose sinnes yee retaine , they are retained , 2 Cor. 5. 18. And he hath given to us the word of reconciliation , 20. Now then wee are Ambassadours for Christ , 1 Cor. 12. 28. And God hath set some in the Church , first Apostles , secondly Prophets , &c. Eph. 4. 11. And he gave some Apostles , &c. 1 Thes. 5. 12. And we beseech you brethren to know them which labour among you , and are over you in the Lord , and admonish you , Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you , and submit your selves , for they watch for your soules , as they that must give an account , Acts 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves , and to all the flocke over which the Lord hath made you Overseers , to feed the Church of God , which he hath purchased with his owne bloud , 1 Pet. 5. 2. Feed the flock of God , which is among you , taking the over-sight thereof , not by constraint , &c. 1 Tim. 3. 2. A Bishop then must be blamelesse , &c. 4. One that ruleth well his owne house , &c. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Let the Elders that rule well , be counted worthy of double honour , v. 21. 28. 2 Tim. 2. v. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7. Tit. 1. 9 , 10 , 11. 2. The Lord in his house , putteth a difference betwixt the Feeders , and the flocke , the Governours , and the governed ; those who are over the people in the Lord , and those who are under them in the Lord ; the Overseers and Watchmen , and the City over which they watch ; the Stewards , and the family ; therefore there must be a peculiar authority in those who are Elders . 3. The flock is to obey , heare , follow , in the Lord , to have the Elders in high estimation , to submit to their doctrine , to receive them as Christ ; Ergo , some authority they must have . 4. The Lord hath given to them an over-sight , Act. 20. 28. and hath committed to them a ministery , 2 Cor. 5. 15. hath put them in his worke and ministery , 1 Tim. 1. 12. 5. God will seeke an account of the bloud of the lost at their hand , Ezech. 3. 20. Heb. 13. 17. and God giveth a reward for the discharge of their office , 1 Pet. 5. 4. 2 Tim. 4 8 Matth. 24. v. 45. 46. Ergo , they must have a place of authority over the people , which the people have not . 6. The proportion betwixt the priesthood in the Old Testament , and the ministery of reconciliation which is more excellent and glorious , 2 Cor. 3. 7 , 8. requireth the same . Now the Lord in a peculiar manner choosed the Tribe of Levi , Deut. 33. 8 , 9. Esay 52. 11. Num. 3. 12. v. 45. ch. 8. v. 6. Separate the Levites to me , ch. 18. 23. Josh. 3. 3. 1 Chron. 15. 2. Josh. 14. 3. 8. But let our Author speake what peculiar authority , or what singular acts of authority are due to the Elders above the people . The Church ( saith he ) exerciseth severall acts of authoritie over the Elders . 1. In calling and electing them to office , and ordaining them in defect of the Presbytery .

I answer . 1. Calling and electing are not to be confounded ; electing is no act of authority ; but that the people calleth and ordaineth the Elders , wanteth example in the word of God , and therefore the Author addeth , that the people ordaineth the Elders in defect of their Presbytery , that is , where there is no Presbytery ; then in case of extraordinary necessitie , and where the Church is not constituted , they are to ordaine the Elders , but in a Constitute Church , the power of ordination is in the Presbytery ; Ergo , ordinarily the people doe not exercise this authoritie over the Elders .

2. The Church of beleevers , saith the Author , sendeth forth the Elders for the publick service of the Church ; as the whole Church of Jerusalem sent forth chosen Ministers , with letters of instruction to Antioch , and to other Churches , Act. 15. 22. Now the Ambassadour is not greater then he that sent him , but usually inferiour , Joh. 13. 16.

Answ. 1. I deny not , but a Church of beleevers in the least Congregation is greater then any Pastor , or number of Pastors , as they are such ; for the Pastors are servants for the Church , and meanes for the end , and lesse and inferior in respect of Christian dignity , but this is not the point , wee doe not now dispute of Christian dignitie , one redeemed soule in that respect is of more worth then a thousand Pastors as they are but meere Pastors , but because the Church sendeth the Elders , the Elders are a part , and a great part of the visible Church , which also send themselves ; but it proveth not the Peoples Church authority , as they are contradistinguished from Elders to be superior and above the authority of Elders ; for here the comparison must not be betwixt one or two Elders , and the Church including all the people and the rest of the Elders , but the comparison is betwixt spece and spece , the office and dignitie and authoritie of the Elders as Elders , and the people as people ; and the Church of Jerusalem was not a Parishionall , but a Presbyteriall Church , consisting of many Elders , and Congregations : now we deny not two Elders to be inferior in authoritie to the whole Colledge of Elders and people , and so there is no authoritie of the people above the Elders , from this proved .

2. a a Morton Grand Imposture . Sect 5. Pag. 47. Morton answereth Papists in the like argument , that sending proveth onely that those who are sent , are not superiors to those who sent them , for the Father sent his Sonne into the world .

3. ( Saith the Author ) if an Elder or a whole Eldership erre , the Church may call him , or them to account , and in case of obstinacie excommunicate them : for it is not reason that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication to save their soules , if they stand in need thereof , more then other . As Peter gave an account , Act. 11. to the Church of Jerusalem of his going in to the uncircumoised .

Answ. 1. If a warrant or example from the word , that one single company of sole beleevers wanting Elders , did in a Church way censure any one Pastor , or a whole Eldership , and that the Church of Jerusalem consisting onely of beleevers without Elders , called Peter before them judicially to give an account of going in to the uncircumcised , is a dreame : and though Peter should have given satisfaction to a number of sole beleevers , to remove the scandall , it proveth not that they had authoritie over Peter , for one private offender is obliged to give an account , and a satisfaction to another private brother , whom he hath offended , Matth. 18. 15. yet hath not a brother Church authoritie over one another , to excommunicate him , as our brethren say , that a company of onely private beleevers may excommunicate all the Elders of the Congregation . 2. It followeth not that Elders should want the medicine of excommunication , when they stand in need thereof , because the people may not excommunicate them , for there be others who of office should excommunicate ; and also the want of a meane of salvation , as the want of baptisme , where such are wanting , as have the onely Church power , to administer such means , doth not condemn men .

On the other side , ( saith the Author ) the Elders have rule over the Church , and that in sundry Acts , as 1. in calling together the Church upon any weighty occasion , Act. 6. 2.

Answ. 1. This power of conveening the multitude , cannot bee the power of governing Gods house spoken of , 2 Tim. 3 , 4 , 5. Tit. 1. 5. to obey those who watch for our soules , Heb. 13. 17. cannot bee to conveene to a Church meeting at their commandement . 2. To conveen the Church meeting or Synods , is an action of the whole Church , for Christ hath given power to his owne Church an ecclesiastick power to conveen her owne Courts , and this can no more be a peculiar act of authoritie , agreeing onely to the Elders , or to a Pastor , then the act of excommunication , for it is given to all the faithfull by your owne grounds , 1 Cor. 5. 4. 1 Cor. 11. 18 1 Cor. 14. 23. how then is it a peculiar act of auhoritie in the Elders ? 1. The Elders , if they bee to bee accused and censured , are they to conveen the Judicatory , as the Consull did conveen the Senate , and to summon themselves ? also if they have any power to conveen the Church , it is but delegated , for orders sake , to them , by the Church ; Ergo , this authoritie is principally and first in the Church , and so it is no authoritie peculiar to the Elders ; also , if it be but a thing of meere order , it is not an act of jurisdiction over the Church ; a Moderator who conveeneth the Synod , or a Consul who conveenth the Senat , have not in that , jurisdiction or authoritie over the Synod or Senat , and may the Elders hinder , I pray you , the conveening of the Church ? I thinke not .

3. This is but a Popish argument , Pope Julius the third , in his Bull taketh this upon him , to conveene Councells . The Ar● 1547. 9. Sess. of Trent . April . 21. An. 1548. Cardinall de Monte President for the Pope gave leave by a speciall Bull from the Pope to the Councell of Trent to advise about the translating of the Councell from Trent to Bonony . And a a Bellar. l. 1. de concil . c. 12. Good Bellarmine and b b Harding 4. Article of Peters suprema●●e as ●●well saith . Harding , as Jewell teacheth us , make this a part of the transcendent power and authoritie of the Pope over the Church , to conveen the Church Catholick ; and if it bee an act of authoritie over the Church to conveene the Church , farre more must it bee in the Pope to conveene the Catholick Church .

Lastly , this power in Elders should bee made good by the Word of God .

Secondly , ( saith hee ) their authority over the Church is in opening the doores of speech and silence to any of the Assembly , Act. 13. 13. unlesse it be where the Elders themselves lie under offence or suspition , then the offended party may begin with them , Act. 11. 2. Yet with due reverence observed , as to their yeares , so to their place , 1 Tim. 5. 3.

Answ. If to speake first in a Church meeting , prove that the Elders have authority over the Church ; then one Elder hath authority over all the rest of the Elders , and must be a little Pope , or a great Prelate , for two or foure Elders cannot all speake first . We seeke now an act of authority due to Elders or Pastors , as they are such , and above the people ; if you make this an act of authority , you then give us in every Church-meeting and Synod a Pastor of Pastors , and an Elder of Elders , and a Pope . 2. If this be an act of authority over the Church , then have Papists well proven that Peter hath an authority and power over all the Church , for c c Suarez t● . detripl●● . vitr . disp. 10. de sam ●on● . Sect. 1. Num. 22. Suarez , and d d Bellarm. de P●n●●f Rom. l. 1. c. 22. Pe●●us in conc●l●● primo 〈◊〉 l●quttur . Bellarmine , and e e Harding loco cita● . Harding prove Peter to be a Pope , because he speaketh first in the councell , Act. 13. 13. and the text that you cite , they cite also : But f f 〈◊〉 kerus tom . 2. contrev 4 9 2 c. 14. Responde 〈◊〉 posse colligi ex hoc loco Petrum esse 〈◊〉〈◊〉 citio primum : na● constat ante 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , quis pri●us 〈◊〉 su● 〈◊〉 evangel●sta tacuit . Whittakerus , and g g Gerson t● . 4. in propos ut●●● . ad ●●ter scbisma . Gerson saith , as also h h Lyranus in 〈◊〉 . Lyran , and i i Carthusian in locum . Carthusian , It is like that James spake first as President of the Councell . 3. The Author leaveth this act of authority , as weake , and saith , that the offended party may speake first . Ergo ( say I ) to speake first is not an authoritative act of Pastors as Pastors agreeing to them , by vertue of their office , seeing this act is communicated to those who are out of office . Ergo , they have not shewen as yet any Pastorall act of office due to the Elders as Elders ; and if it were most convenient that Elders should first speake , our brethren will not say that it is due to them by their office , but for their age and gifts , and so they say nothing .

Thirdly , ( saith the Author ) Elders have rule over the Church in preaching the word , and they have power to teach and exhort , to charge and command , to reprove and rebuke with all authoritie , 1 Tim. 5. 7. and 6. 17. 2 Thes. 3. 6.

Answ. It can not be denied , but Elders , that is , preaching Elders or Pastors , have authoritie over the people in preaching and rebuking with all authoritie ; but 1. I aske at our brethren , by what authoritie of the Scripture is pastorall binding and loosing an authoritative act of the preaching Elder onely ? for the concionall or preaching power of remitting and retaining sinnes , Joh. 20. 21. is all one with the power of the keyes , Matth. 16. and that is given ( saith our brethren ) to the whole Church , and by these texts are not restricted to Pastors as they expone them . 2. Our brethren alledge there is a two-fold power of preaching in Pastors , one by vertue of their gift , another by vertue of their office . By the first Pastors doe preach to Infidels , Turkes , and unconverted ones ; now this preaching is not proper to Pastors as Pastors , nor is it any authority peculiar to Pastors over all the flocke , for all gifted persons ( as our brethren teach ) may preach , and so the gifted ones amongst the people have authority over the Pastors in this meaning , as well as the Pastors have over them , and so the difference of rulers and ruled , of feeders and the fed , is taken away . Now for the power of Pastorall teaching , the Pastors have authority over the Church , but that is over the invisible Church of beleevers , and regenerated persons , for Pastors as Pastors doe not convert Soules , and so they preach to the unconverted not as Pastors , or with any Pastorall care : for they teach that Pastors , Doctors , and Church-officers are given , Ephes. 4. 11. onely for confirming of those who are already converted , not for converting of Soules , and by this meanes , 1. Pastors doe not preach the Law , for the humbling of unconverted sinners , they doe not as Pastors , or by vertue of the office open the eyes of the blinde , nor are they Ministers by whom men beleeve , 1 Cor. 3. 5. nor are they Fathers who begot men in Christ Jesus , through the Gospell , as 1 Cor. 4. 25. Nor doe they pray men in Christs stead to be reconciled unto God , as 2 Cor. 5. 20. Which is strange and uncouth Doctrine of our brethren , for all these acts ministeriall are performed upon non-converts , who are not properly members of Christs mysticall body , nor of the spouse of Christ , nor members of the visible Church , nor the Sonnes and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty , nor have some measure of sincerity and truth , as this author Chap. 3. Sect. 3. requireth of members of the visible Church , and these are not under any pastorall care , really and in very deed , who are yet unconverted to the faith , therefore the Pastor , if hee convert any by his preaching , he doth it by vertue of his gift , not as a Pastor or by vertue of his office , as they teach in their answer to the 32. questions , & so as Pastors they have no authoritie over the unconverted within the visible Church ; and this authoritative act of Elders over the people , falleth to the ground , by their principles .

3. This authoritative preaching doth not yet make over to the Elders authoritative power above , or over the people , such as wee now seeke . For 1. By this ruling Elders who do not preach and labour not in the Word and doctrine , 1 Tim. 7. 17. by office , have not this power ; Ergo , yet you give no peculiar authoritie to the whole Eldership over the people . 2. The Spirit of God requireth an authority of overseeing and governing to bee in Pastors beside the authoritative power of preaching ; for besides that a Bishop should bee ●apt to teach , 1 Tim. 3. 2. hee must also , v. 4 , 5 , 6. bee one , who can both govern his own house , and also the Church of God , and not onely must hee not neglect the gift of prophecying , 1 Tim. 4. 14. but also hee must know , 1 Tim. 3. 13. how to behave himselfe in the Church of God , and must bee circumspect in receiving accusations against an Elder , and lay hands suddenly on no man , and not be partaker of other mens sinnes , 1 Tim. 5. 19. 22. he must not onely bee an approven workman , to divide the Word aright , 1 Timothey 2. 15. and preach in season and out of season , 2 Tim. 4. 2. but also must commit the Word to faithfull men who are able to teach others , 2 Tim. 2. 2. All which are singular points of authoritative power of government different from authoritative power of teaching . And so Titus must not onely have the oversight by sound doctrine to exhort and convince the gainesayers , Tit. 1. 9. but hee hath power in governing to order the things of discipline , and to appoint Elders in every citie , Tit. 1. 9. Act. 4. 23. yea there is an oversight in watching for soules , in governing no lesse then in teaching , H●b . 13. 17. Now this Author sheweth us nothing , that is a peculiar authoritative power in ruling , governing and a disciplinary overseeing of soules , which the Word giveth to Elders , as they are Elders , and called Governors of Gods people , as yet , yea all the people are governors , rulers and overseers in government by them , no lesse then the Elders .

4. The Author saith , Elders have rule over the Church in dispensing all the censures of the Church , ( unlesse it bee in their owne cause ) for though they take the consent of the Church in dispensing a censure , yet they set on the censures with great authoritie , in the name of the Lord ; yea it is no small power , that they put forth in directing the Church , what censures are due according to the word : as , though the Judge dispense no sentence , but according to the verdict of the Jury , yet his authority is great both in directing the Jury to give their verdict according to the Law , and in pronouncing the sentence with power and terrour ; the like d●e the Elders in dispensing Church censures .

Answ. This dispensing of Church censures hath two branches . 1. A directing of the Church in the qualitie of the censures . 2. A binding of the censures upon them , or in executing the censures of the Church . For the former , if it bee a pastorall direction , it is all one with preaching of the Word , and is not an act of authority by way of governing , but by way of pastorall teaching . But , 1. Wee would have a word from God , giving this power of the keyes peculiarly to the Pastors , for if you give the keyes to all the Church of beleevers , as beleevers , and because they are Christs Spouse , his mysticall body , the habitation of his Spirit by faith , then with your good leave , there bee neither keyes , nor any power of the keyes given to the Pastors as Pastors , and in respect of their office , but onely as they are a part of Christs body ; now as Pastors or Elders , they are neither beleevers , nor the bride , nor a part of the bride , but at best the friends of the Bridegroome , Joh. 3. 29. especially seeing the Church as the Church , and as using actually the keyes , doth censure and judicially prescribe the qualitie and quantitie of the censure , as they are directed , Matth. 18. 1 Cor. 5. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. yea and the Church judicially , and authoritatively pronounceth the sentence , and maner of the censure on the sentence : for example , of ten collaterall and coequall Judges , if two of these ten bee skilled Juristes , and shall direct the rest in the qualitie of the punishment to bee inflicted upon a malefactor , that direction commeth from them , not as Judges over the rest , nor by any peculiar power that they have above the rest , seeing all the ten are equally and joyntly Judges of a like power , but that direction commeth from them as skilled Jurists : So here , though the Elders direct the Church anent , the qualitie of the censure , they doe not this by an authority above the Church , seeing the Church with them have received the Keyes ; yea they principally as the Spouse of Christ , and his mysticall body , have received the keyes , and the Pastoes and Elders as such have the keyes , not but as they are beleevers and a part of the mysticall body , but as they are Pastors and Elders they have not received the keyes at all , by our brethrens doctrine ; yea as Elders or officers they are not parts of the Church , but onely adjuncts and ornaments thereof . For the second , to wit , the execution of the censures of the Church , if they doe it as Pastors , and by vertue of their office execute the sentence of the Church as Pastors , they are meere servants of the Church , not collaterall Judges , with the Church , and are not as the Judge who doth direct the Jury : for the Jury doth only cognosce of the fact , but hath no judiciall power to pronounce the sentence or discerne the qualitie of the punishment , nor can the Jury at all discerne any punishment . But the Judge cognosceth both of the Law , and the fact , and authoritatively pronounceth sentence ; but the Elders have no authoritative power in directing the people to pronounce , or not pronounce the sentence ; or what sentence to pronounce , or what censure to inflict ; for if they have this authoritative power , then we seeke Scripture to warrant this power . 2. The Elders must then have the keyes in a more emminent manner then the people or Church of beleevers ; so all bee but blanke and emptie titles given to Elders hitherto .

Fiftly , saith the Author , The Elders have power to dismisse the people or Church , and that with a blessing , Numb . 6. 23. to 26. which is an act of seperioritie , Heb. 7. 7.

An. This is but an emptie title also . For , 1. The Pastoronly , & one dismisseth Doctor , Elders , Deacons , and the whole Congregation ; and so one is a Pastor of Pastors , and an Arch-Elder of Elders hath authority , by this , over his fellow Elders , and candismisse them , therefore there is nothing peculiar in an officiall power , here to the whole presbytery , above the people . 2. A majority or superioritie is one thing , and a power of jurisdiction is another . Blessing of the Church at their dismission is nothing , but a prayer of the whole Church ( the Minister being mouth ) who blesseth all , and is no act of superioritie of jurisdiction , or power of the keyes , of which wee now dispute . And you cannot thinke that to obey those who are over you in the Lord , and submit to them , as it is , Heb. 13. 17. is nothing but to receive a dismissory blessing from the Pastor . And I much doubt , if the Priests blessing of the people , Numb . 6. was morall , and if it was not typicall , hee not taking in himselfe , but as a type of Christ , pronouncing the whole visible Church blessed , sorypifying Christ our Priest , in whom all the nations of the earth are blessed , Gal. 38. 14. And do not the people pay the Pastor home in his owne coyne , for you make the Church of beleevers to ordaine their owne Elders , and to lay hands upon them and blesse them , so you teach . 3. Nor is dismissing of the Church an act of authoritie , or of officiall power , for your preaching and unofficed professors may dismisse , as well as they may publikely pray and preach . 2. A dismission is agreed upon by the Church , before hand , and floweth from the nature of all publike meetings . 3. Ejusdem est potestatis congregare & dimittere caetum congregatum ; you know to conveene Christs Courts authoritatively is due to no man on earth ; the Church hath an intrinsecall power of herselfe to conveene ( being the Court of the Lord Jesus ) and so also to dissolve , and this is the usurped power that the Antichrist taketh to himselfe to conveene the generall councells ; as a a Bellar. l. 1. de conc . c. 12. Bellarmin , b b Suarez de tripl . tra . Theo. disp. sect. 3. Suarez , c c Pighius l. 6. c. 18. Pighius , and d d Cajetan , de ●uthorit . Pap. ● . 16. Cajetanus teach us .

Sixtly , our Author saith ; In case of Apostasie of the Church , or other notorious scandals , or obstinacie thereof , their Elders have power to denounce the judgement of God against the Church , and withdraw themselves from it ; As upon the Idolatry of the Israeli●es , Moses tooke the Tabernacle and pitched it without the camp , Exod. 33. And Paul with Barnabas rejected the Jewes for their blasphemy , and turned to the Gentiles , Act. 13. 45 , 46.

Answ. Here be two diverse things sewed together to make up one thing : 1. to denounce the judgement of God is one thing , 2. to separate from the Church is another thing ; the former is an act of authoritie , being rightly taken , the latter is an act of no authoritie . But for the first , to denounce judgement on a visible Church , and that with a separation , is ● nothing but an act of Pastorall teaching , and so no act of officiall power of governing in the Elders above the Church , is brought in all these six , and so yet the difference betwixt the feeders and the fed , the shepheards and flocke , the watchman and the Also your unofficed Prophets may as well denounce judgement against an Apo sta● Church , as they may publikely preach mercy in the Gospel , and s● this is no officiall act of authoritie . citie , or the people who are to submit and obey these who are over them in the Lord , who rule well , is close everted , and all the Churches are turned masters , feeders , governors , rulers ; for Elders have no officiall authoritie by our brethrens doctrine , which is not in the Church of beleevers . 2. To denounce judgement to an Idolatrous and obstinate Church , who by their Apostasie do declare themselves , not to bee Christs body , is a Pastorall act of Pastors exercised on those who now leave off to be Churches , and this is to play the Pastors to that which is not a flocke , and as unlawfull as for a husband to exercise the actions of a husband to one who is not his wife . 3. To separate from an obstinate Church is by you thought lawfull to all private Christians , who would not defile themselves with the pollutions of the Church , how then do you make it an authoritative act of ruling Pastors ? 4. For Pastors to remove the Gospell , and preach no more to an obstinate Church , is not , nor can it , in reason , be , that wherein wee are to submit and obey those , who are over us in the Lord . My reason is , we are to be agents , at least , for most part , in submitting and yeelding our selves to those who in teaching and governing are over us in the Lord , because they watch for our soules . But in their separating from us and removall of the Gospel , wee are meere patients and cannot be agents . 5. Moses his removall of the Tabernacle , and Paul his turning from the Jewes , was by another spirits warrant , then Pastors now a dayes can dare to remove themselves , and their Ministery from a visible Church , for Paul turned from the Jewes for their universall Apostasie , blasphemy , and opposing of the maine and principall foundation of the Christian faith , to wit , that Christ Jesus came in the world , died for sinners , rose againe , and ascended to heaven , &c. The 4. case , to wit , of any particular scandall , or scandals and of obstinacie therein , cannot bee the like ground for Elders to separate from a Church and never preach the Gospel againe to them .

CHAP. 6. SECT. 1.

Of communion of sister Churches amongst themselves .

I Here bee seven wayes , saith the Author , by which wee leepe the communion of Saints in divers Churches . 1. By way of The way of the Churches of Christ in New England . participation . 2. Of recommendation . 3. Of consultation . 4. Of Congregation . 5. Of contribution . 6. Of admonition . 7. Of propagation , or multiplication of Churches . It is allowed by the consent of our Churches , that when the members of any other Churches are occasioned to rest with us on the Lords day , when the Supper commeth to be administred , and neither the persons themselves , nor the Church they came from , under any publick offence , they bee by us admitted to the participation of the Lords Supper : for wee looke at the Lords Supper , not onely as a seale of our communion with the Lord Jesus , but also of our communion with his members , and that not onely with the members of our owne Churches , but of all the Churches of the Saints ; and this is the first way of communion with other Churches , to wit , by participation .

Answ. 1. We heartily embrace the doctrine of the communion of Saints , but many things are here which are incompatible with your doctrine ; as first communion of Churches , which you call a branch of the communion of Saints , cannot consist with your doctrine , for a Church by you is relative onely , to the Eldership of a Church , as sonnes are relative to Fathers , but a Sonne is not relative to a brother , so neither is a Parishionall Church properly a Church in relation to a neighbour Church ; for a Church hath no Church-state , no Church-priviledges , no Church-worship , in relation to a sister-Church ; therefore you should say , the Communion of Christians of sister-Churches , not the Communion of Churches , for no Church by your doctrine hath any Church-state ; or Church-worship in relation to any , but to its owne members .

2. This enumeration is defective , you make a Communion of Churches in the members of sister Churches , in the Lords Supper , though the members of neighbour Churches bee not inchurched in Church-state , by oath , as a member of that Church , where hee partaketh the Lords Supper ; and why should not the Child of beleeving parents in the death or absence of the Pastors of neighbour Churches have communion with you in baptisme also ? for this communion in baptizing , you deny to any but those who are members of that Church , wherein they receive baptisme .

3. if you admit communion of Churches in some things , to wit , in the Lords Supper , how can you deny communion of Churches in other holy things of God ? for you admit no communion of Churches in the power of the keyes , as in mutuall counselling , warning , rebuking , binding and loosing , for Christ hath left no common power of the keyes in many visible Churches , who are united together in an Iland or Nation , or Continent , by which these acts of communion should bee regulated , and in case of neglect and abuse , censured according to Gods Word as you say , for you deny all authoritative power in Synods , let me bee resolved , deere brethren , in this , how Christ hath put whole Churches and their soules in worse case then members of your independent Congregations are , for the keyes of the kingdome of heaven in binding and loosing , in excommunicating , that the spirit may bee saved in 〈◊〉 day of the Lord , the removing of scandalls out of sister parishionall kingdomes of Christ , the gaining of sister Churches from heresies and scandalls , as brethren are to bee gained , Matth. 18. 15. 1 Cor. 5. 5. 1 Tim. 1. 30. by censures , the keeping of the holy things of God from profanation , authoritative rebuking , warning , that others may feare , and that the rebuked may bee ashamed , and all these meanes of salvation are denied to your particular Congregations , as if they were Angels and Popes , who cannot be lacking in duties , and yet all these are granted to members of any one particular Church , how hath the care & wisedome of Christ denied these meanes to many united Churches , and yet you acknowledge that sister Churches have communion amongst themselves , and that seven wayes , in visible acts of externall communion ?

I beleeve this one argument , though there were no more , doth strongly conclude the lawfulnesse of Synods , and by consequent , the Law of nature would say , if Christs wisdome provide wayes to regulate the publike actions of the members of a particular Church , that they may be edified and builded up in the most holy faith , farre more hath he taken care for many Churches united in a visible communion seven wayes , that Lord that careth for the part , must farre rather care for the whole body .

4. You say members of other Churches are admitted to the Lords Supper amongst you , by consent of your Churches , but what consent doe you meane ? is the consent authoritative , by power of the keyes ? 1. This consent authoritative is either concluded in a Synod of many Churches , and so you acknowledge the authoritative power of Synods , if it be done and agreed upon in every particular Church by them alone ▪ then I aske , seeing to administer the Lords Supper to any , and so to make in your Church meeting , that it shall be administred to any , is ( as you teach ) an act of ministeriall power over those , to whom you administer the Seale , chap. 4. Sect. 5. Now how doe you exercise acts of ministeriall power , or conclude ecclesiastically to exercise these acts in your parishional meeting toward those over whom you have no ministeriall power ? for members of neighbour Churches are under no ministeriall power in your particular Church , as you teach in the same place , as you can exercise no power of the keyes when some are absent , that is tyranny upon the conscience , saith a a Answorth pag. 42. 43. in his Animadver . Answorth , who will have none censured , or excommunicated , except the whole congregation be present : also he who of another Church communicateth with you , 1. Hath no faith of the lawfull calling , and choosing your Ministers , for he neither could nor ought to be present thereat . 2. He knoweth not but he may be leavened by a scandalous lumpe , which leaveneth the whole Church , and is enough , as you say ( chap. 4. Sect. ) to hold any from communicating in the Seales with any Church . Now these and many other things he must take in trust from you , which Answorth thinketh tyranny of conscience ; neither can a letter of recommendation make one of another congregation , capable of Seales with you ; for to dispone is to alienate and give away the ministeriall power of the Seales to another Church . Now this power ( say you , chap. 5. Sect. 4. ) is a part of the liberty wherewith Christ hath made you free , and so you cannot dispone it to another Church , except you bring your selfe in bondage , contrary to Gal. 5. 1.

5. Mr. Best . b b Best . the Churches plea. pag. and your c c Chap. 4. Ser. 5. selfe , bold that a Pastor can exercise no pastorall act , but over his owne flocke , and you say that the Scripture saith so , Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 2. Ergo , either to administer the Lords Supper , is no pastorall Act , and may be done by non-Pastors , ( as Arminians and Socinians destroying the necessity of a ministery , doe averre ) or then a Minister cannot administer the Lords Supper to any but his owne flocke : see you to this .

6. If the sister Church lie under any offence , you will not admit any of their members to the Lords Supper , though these members be of approven piety ; and why ? What a separation is this ? What if these members do not consent to that offence , as some of the godly in Corinth might be humbled and mourne , that the Church did not cast out the incestuous person , shal they be debarred by you from the seales , because they separate not from that infected lump ? the Apostle alloweth communicating , ( so that every one examine himselfe , 1 Cor. 11. 21. 30. ) with drunken persons , and where many were stricken of God , with death , and diverse diseases , as eating and drinking their owne damnation .

7. You looke at the Lords Supper , as a seale of communion with all the Churches of the Saints . What communion meane you ? invisible ? no. You deny that the seales are given to the invisible Church , and the members thereof , but to the visible Church , as you say ; d d Chap. 4. Sect. 6. If you meane a visible communion of all the visible Churches of the Saints , why then brother doe you call the universall visible Church a Chimera , or a dreame , as you say ? e e Chap. 1. Ser. 2. and if all the visible Churches have a visible communion , it is to deny Christs wisdome and care of his Church , to deny the lawfulnesse of a Oecumenick and generall councell of all the Churches of the Saints . We recommend ( saith the Author ) Brethren for a time to other Churches , as Paul recommended Phoebe to Manuscript . 6. the Church of Rome , Rom. 16. 1. 2. or we give letters dismissorie to such as are for ever to reside in another congregation ; but members are not to remove from their congregation , but upon just and weighty reasons made knowne and allowed by the whole Church , for wee looke at our Church Covenant , as an everlasting Covenant , Jerem. 50. v. 5. And therefore though it may be resigned , and translated from one Church to another , ( as Gods hand shall direct ) yet it is not to be violated , and rejected by us ; if members cut off themselves by excommunication , it is their owne fault ; if any upon light reasons be importunately desirous to remove , the Church is to use indulgence , as not willing to make the Church of God a prison , but often the hand of God in poverty and scandall followeth such , and driveth them to returne : when a person recommended by letters commeth to another congregation , the Church by lifting up their hands , or by silence receive him ; if he ●e altogether unknowne , and doubted of , because the Church may erre , be is not received till due triall be taken of him .

Answ. We see not how letters of recommendation , most lawfull , as we judge , and necessary , can resigne ministeriall power , a liberty bought with Christs bloud , ( as you say ) to any other Church , for we think all the visible Churches are one Catholike visible Church , and should have a visible communion , and so that there is no resignation of ministeriall power in these letters , but they are declaratory of the Christian behaviour of the dismissed Christian. We aske if dimissory letters be authoritative , and done by the Church as the Church , and how can a Church usurp authority ( by your way ) over a sister Church to recommend a sojourner to a Church state and Church liberties , and seales of the Covenant ? one Church hath no authority over another . If these letters be meerely private , and meerely declaratory , to manifest and declare the sojourners Christian behaviour only then he had power and right without these letters , or any act of resignation , or giving away ministeriall power , to be a Church-member , of the visible Church to the which he goeth . Ergo , he was a member of the visible Church , to which he goeth before the dimissory letters were written ; and the letters doe resigne no right , but onely notifie and declare the sojourners preexistent right , and so there is a visible Church and a visible communion of all congregations on earth , and most be an externall power and authority in all , for Synods . Let our brethren see to this .

3. The person to remove must be dismissed and loosed by the consent of the whole congregation It is true , none should remove from one congregation to another without God goe before them , nor can they change countries without Gods warranting 〈◊〉 , Gen 12. 1. chap. 45. 4. but that such removall is a matter of Church-discipline , and must be done by a ministeriall power , is unwar●anted by any word of God . ( it conveniency permit ) else he is not exonered of his Church-oath made to that congregation ; What if conveniency doe not permit ? then is he loosed from an oath without consent of the Church , which did by oath receive him . I thinke eju●dem p●testatis est ( as the Law saith ) ligare & solvere , that Church power which bindeth must loose .

4. If the Church-Covenant be an everlasting Covenant , as Jer. 50. 5. tying the man to the membership of that particular congregation for ever ; I see not how the Church can use indulgenees , and Pope-like dispensations against the oath of God , to breake it upon light and frivolous reasons ; for if God punish Covenant breaking , so also should the Church , and can by no indulgence be accessory to the breach of Gods oath , there is too great a smell of Popery , Arminianisme , and Socinianisine in this way , in my weake judgement . But if the man be not sworne a member of that particular Church by his oath , he is sworne a member of the visible Church universall , which our brethren cannot well say . Neither is any Covenant called an everlasting Covenant in the Scripture , but the Covenant of grace , Jer. 31. 33. c. 32. 40. Isa. 54. 9 , 10. and that is made with the invisible Catholike Church of beleevers , as is the Covenant , Jer. 50. 5. and not a Covenant with one visible congregation , and what warrant hath the Church to dispense with the breach of such an everlasting Covenant ?

5. The testimony of other Churches , if it be a warrant to you , in faith , to receive into the Church such a one as a Saint , and a Temple of the holy Spirit , how should it not also be a warrant to you , to cast out and excommunicate also ?

6. The person comming from another Church , if of approven piety , is received , by lifting up of the hands , or silence of the Church , as you say , 1. Have we a warrant from Gods word , for such a new inchurching ? 2. Why is he not received by a Church oath ? as a Minister transplanted to another Church , must have ordination and election of new , for to you there is alike reason . 3. If there be no need of a new Church oath to make him a member of that visible Congregation , seeing now he is loosed from the former , you in●inuate his former Church-oath did make him a member of a visible Church , and so ●e that is a visible member in a Church , is a visible member of all , and so there must be a visible Church-Catholike , if there be a Catholike visible membership in any one member , and so you destroy what you build .

Manuscr . 16. A third way of Communion with other Churches ( saith the Author ) is by seeking their helpe and presence . 1. In admitting of members . 2. In case of differences of judgments . 3. In matters darke and doubtsome .

Answ. We seeke a warrant from the word for this , for Elders are present at the admission , and choosing of officers , as prime agents by authority , not by way of naked counsell and advise . Act. 1. 13. c. 6. 26. c. 14. 23. Act. 13. 3. 1 Tim. 1. 13.

Manuscr . The fourth way , ( saith he ) is by gathering many Churches , or their messengers in a Synod , to examine and discusse either corrupt opinions , or suspicious practises . Here 1. the Magistrate is acquaint with our Assembly , he being a nourishing Father of the Church . 2. They meete in Christs name . 3. The Elders declare their judgement in order , and the reasons thereof . 4. All may speake till the truth either be cleared , and all either convinced or satisfied , as Act. 15. 7. 5. If things be not fully cleared , and if it seeme that the nature of them admit farther disquisition , yea and difference of judgements , without disunion of affections , or prejudice of salvation , each man is left to his Christian liberty , and if any be otherwayes minded , God shall reveale the same thing to him .

Answ. This Section being closed , I have here two considerable points to be discussed ; the one anent the power of Synods : the other anent the power of the civill Magistrates .

Quest. I. Whether or not Synods have authority , by divine right , to obleige the Churches to obedience , in things lawfull and expedient ?

For the fuller clearing of this grave question , I would have these considerations weighed by the godly reader .

Consider . 1. Canons of Councells may be thought to ●ye as authoritative Commandements , or as advises and friendly counsells .

2. An advise or counsell doth obleige and tye both for the intrinsecall lawfulnesse of the counsell , it being for matter Gods word , and also for the authority of the friends counselling , because the first Commandement enjoyneth obedience to all our betters , not onely inplace , and officiall relation , as to Kings , Fathers , Pastors , &c. but also to all above us in age , gifts , knowledge , experience .

3. Hence there is a superiority of dominion , or jurisdiction , and a superiority of reverence , and endowments : the former is the narrower , inadequate , and straiter subject of the fifth Commandement , and both are considerable objects , in this Commandement .

4. All who as friends , equalls , brethren , and indued with more grace , experience and light , doe advise and counsell good , are superiors in so farre , but it is a superiority of reverence , not of jurisdiction : for by this they who are aged , and may counsell what is lawfull , have not power to censure or excommunicate those who follow not their counsell . Yet if David had rejected the counsell of Abigail , disswading him from passionate revenge , he had in that despised God , unlessethe Prince or the High-Priest had given that counsell by way of command , though there be degrees of Latitude in despising the one , rather then the other .

5. There is a difference betwixt hability to judge , and right or power to judge : a Presbyteriall Church may have right , jus , and ecclesiasticall Law to judge of a point , to the judging whereof , they want hability , and therefore de facto , it belongeth to a higher Synod , where more learned men are , though de jure the Presbytery may judge it .

6. Though government of the Church by Synods , be Gods positive Law , yet upon the laid downe ground , Christ hath given the keyes and power of Government to every visible Church , the Government of united Churches by Synods , is a branch of the Law of nature .

7. Synods are necessary for the well-being of the Church , and still are in the visible Church in more , or lesse degrees , for the authority of Synods consisting of fix onely , differeth not in nature and essence , from a generall councell of the whole Catholike visible Church . Magis et minus non variant speciem . And therefore if Synods be warranted by the word of God , ( as no question they are ) there is no neede to prove by particular places of the word , the lawfulnesse of every one of these , a sessionall meeting of the Eldership of a single Congregation . 2. A Presbytery , or meeting of the Elders , or Pastors & Doctors of more Congregations . 3. A Provinciall Synod of the Presbyteries of a whole province . 4. The Nationall Assembly , or meeting of the Elders of the whole Nation . 5. The generall and Occumenick Councell of Pastors , Doctors , and Elders of the whole Catholick Church visible ; for all these differ not in essence , but degrees , and what word of God , as Matth. 18. 16 , 17. proveth the lawfulnesse of one , is for the lawfulnesse of all the five sorts of Synods .

8. Grant the consociation of authorities in sundry Churches , and you cannot deny the authority of Synods above particular Churches .

9. Consociation of Churches to give advise and counsell , is not Consociation of Churches as Churches , but onely consociation of Christian professors , who are obleiged to teach , admonish , and rebuke one another .

10. There is a right of dominion , and a right of jurisdiction , as we shall heare anon .

Hence our first conclusion , a generall councell is a Congregation of Pastors , Doctors , and Elders , or others , met in the name and authority of Jesus Christ , out of all Churches , to determine according to the word of God , all controversies in faith , Church-government , or manners , no faithfull person , who desireth , beeing excluded from reasoning and speaking . Neither is the definition of a a Fac de Almain de p●testa . eccles. et lav . c. 15. est congregatio authoritate legitime facta , ad aliquem locu● ex omni statu Hierarchico , nulla persona fideli perente audir● exclusa , ad nactandum ea quae concernunt publicam ecclesiae utilitatem et ipsius mares . A●m●in , and b b Ge●s●n de p●test . eccles. Gerson much different from this , save that they thinke that councells are lawfully conveened , if such and such onely , as are of the Hierarchike order be members thereof , which we thinke Antichristian . 2. As also the Pope president here , we disclaime . Yet doth Almain confesse that a generall councell may be conveened without the Pope in three cases . 1. when the Pope is dead , either departing this life , or civilly dead , being excommunicated . for any crime of heresie : for the Apostolike Sea hath vaiked often two yeares together .

2. When the Pope is averse and opposeth reformation . 3. When time and place hath beene assigned for the next generall , councell , as was done in the councell of Basil ; and the Papists grant that , Matth. 18. Tell the Church , is a warrant for a generall councell . 1. Because it is a meane for the saving of the spirits of all men , even Pastors and Apostles in the day of the Lord . 2. Because Apostles , though in prophecying and writing canonick Scripture , when they were inspired , could not erre , yet otherwise they might erre ; and if Peter should have remained obstinate in his Judaizing , Gal. 2. and resused to heare Paul or the Church , hee was to bee excommunicated . 3. By the Church , Matth. 18. ( saith d d Schola Pa●s●r● de poust . Eccles. pag. 17. the Schoole of Paris ) cannot bee understood , the Prelats of the Church onely , because Christ did speake to Peter ; and saith Almain and Gerson , Peter cannot bee both an ac●user , a witnesse , and a Judge . 4. There is a power of the keyes to bind and loose , given immediatly by Christ to all the rulers of the Catholick or universall Church visible ; Ergo , the exercise of this power , though it bee sometimes ( physice ) impossible , because of the corruption of mans nature , there being bloody warres in Christendome , yet it is morally lawfull , for many things may bee inconvenient , through mans wickednesse , and so hic & nunc not expedient , which are morally lawfull .

2. Conclusion ; Every particular Pastor hath a power , though unproper , of dominion and authoritie , even out of a Synod , about the Acts of preaching and determining truth ; according to the word of God , as Jer. 1. 10. See , I have this day set thee over the nations , and over the kingdomes , &c. 1 Tim. 6. 17. Charge them that are rich that they bee not high minded , &c. 2 Tim. 4. 1. I charge thee before God , and the Lord Jesus Christ , who shall judge the quick and the dead , &c. So any Pastor hath power of dominion and authoritie over a Synod , and Paul as a Pastor might preach , even before the councell at Jerusalem passed their Synodicall determination , Act. 15. that circumcision was not necessary , and that to obstaine from things strangled , from blood and fornication was necessary and lawfull , yea and in preaching truth the Pastor is subject to no Synod . But the Pastor hath not full power of jurisdiction about his acts of preaching necessary truth . 1. Because the Church may for just causes deprive him from preaching . 2. Because hee cannot use the censure of excommunication against those who refuse to receive his true and necessary doctrine , without the Church joyne her power of jurisdiction with him . 3. He , his alone , cannot in a Synod determine ecclesiastically , and in an authoritative Church power , that same truth which as a Pastor hee determined , and with the power of pastorall dominion hee pressed upon the consciences of the Church , yea of the whole Synod , because one man is not the Church , or Synod ; and James his alone , Act. 15. v. 15. could but say , Wherefore my sentence is that yee trouble not them , which from among the Gentiles are turned unto God , though this was the very word of God , which James as a Pastor , even as an ordinary Pastor might have preached in the name of God ; yet is it not A Pastor may propone James the Apostles mind , aneut fornication , blood , &c. Act. 15. permodum consilii , as a counsel to some other Pastor , but it hath the power of a Synodicall decree not from Iames , though an Apostle , but from the joynt voyces of the Synod ; and it is not like that Iames as an Apostle said , Wherefore my sentence is , &c. as an Apostle hee should have said as Paul doth , what I received of the Lord , that I delivered unto you , &c. the decree of the Church , which the Churches is to keep , Act. 16. 4. while it bee determined by the Church . An example wee may have possible not unlike to this . A man hath a power of dominion over his owne proper lands and goods to use them in God , for his owne use , but the supreme magistrate and Parliament hath a dominion of jurisdiction in a judiciall sentence over those same lands to forfeit them for crimes committed against King and State : or this may cleare it , Samuel hath a power immediately from God , to annoint David King , and in this hee is not subject to the suffrages of the tribes of Israel , hee hath a power of dominion here ; but suppose wee that Samuel live till Gods time , when all Israel shall crowne David King at Hebron , Samuel as a part of the Assembly of Israel , his alone , without the suffrages of Israel , could not make him King at Hebron . Hence wee may see how weake the assertion of our brethren is , who e e Answer to 32. questions ad qu●st . 18. say , That Synods should have power to bind the Churches ( say they ) wee see not ; f f Bellarmine de concil . lib. 1. c. 18. Est tantum ( inquiunt ) inquisitie quaedam & dictae sententiae ministratoria et limitata , ita ut tantum valeat decretum concilii quantum valeat ejus raise . Bellarmine indeed holdeth so . But orthodox writers hold that the sentence of councels is but a certaine inquisition of the truth , and a ministeriall and limited sentence , so that the decree of a councell is of as great force as the reason thereof , so saith Amesius and g g Iunius animadversan Bellarm. lib. 1. de concilae . 18. Junius . But certainly this is a meer mistake of our brethren , as if they were not orthodox writers , but conspirers against the truth with Bellarmine , who hold the authoritie of Synods . The essentiall end ( to speak so ) of Synods is unitie , and the eschewing of schisme ; and wee doubt not , but Peter , Paul , James had in their Sermons , and doctrine determined that same veritie , to wit , that the Law of Moses and ceremonies was a yoak not to bee laid upon the Christian Churches , yet it was not a decree for unities sake , and fuller authoritie binding the Churches to observe these , as Act. 16. 4. while it was determined in a Synod , Act. 5. 24. 25.

But truely wee hold nothing in this common with Jesuites and Papists , for wee condemne not that in Bellarmine , that hee holdeth that lawfull Synods ( for of such wee dispute with him ) do bind the Churches to obedience in God , to their decrees , not because they say it , but because they say it authoritatively from Gods Word ; authoritie of Synods no orthodox writers deny , authoritie officiall as the representative Church of Christ they have , He that heareth you heareth mee , hee that despiseth you despiseth me ; Where two or three are gathered together ( in a Synod , say our Divines ) I will bee amongst them . But authoritie objective they have not , so as what they say , because they say it , therefore the very matter , object and thing said by them , is no lesse the Word of God , then if the Prophets and Apostles by divine inspiration had said it ; at least it is not infallibly true , because they say it , for that wee disclaime , and it is that authoritie of Synods , which Bellarmine and Papists hold , Councells ( saith h h Bellarm. de concil . authorit. lib. 2. c. 12. Concilia & Scripturae sunt ut raque infallibilis ●●rttatis . Bellarmine ) and Scripture are both infallible , and i i Rhemists in art . 15. 8. 10. the Jesuits of Rhemes , and k k Lorinus co●●ent . in Act. 15. Lorinus the Jesuite said councells are infallible , the holy Spirit is there present ; l l Grati●n . dis . 19. in Canon . Gratian said , all the decretall Epistles of Popes , and m m dist. 20 can decretale● . the Canons of the Councells are of equall authoritie with the Scriptures : and their o o Gregorius 1. Epist. 24. Gregorius said hee received with the same reverence and authoritie the foure generall Councells , & the foure Evangelist● ; it is certaine ( saith p p Suarez de tripl . virtut. disp. 5. sect. 7. men . 6. ce●●issimum est cencilium genera●e , in quo ●aes●ns adest pontifex , esse infallibilem regulam fidei . Suarez ) that a Councell is an infallible rule of faith , and q q Turre●●●m . su●n . de Ecclesi . lib. 3. Turrecremata saith the same : It is certaine ( saith r r Bailius Catechis . trac . 2. q. ● . concilia nobis in di●ficultatibus sunt instar ora●ulorum . Bailius ) Councells are ●● the Oracles of God to us in difficulties , so saith s s Ca●etan . t●ac . de author . Pontis c. 9. Cajetanus , t t 〈◊〉 i● Canus de loc. com . l. 5. c 5. Canus , and u u 〈◊〉 de ●alent , tom . 1. disp q. 1. de objecto fi●● : p●●ct 7. Gregorius de Valentia ; wee hold the authoritie of Councels , but ascribe to them as much power over the conscience , as there is reason in them from Gods Word , and no more .

But 2. This is a weake reason , councels have no power to command obedience , because their Canons and Decrees are of no more force , then they have reason from Gods Word . For 1. Friends , brethren , equals , by that have no warrant to rebuke , because their rebukes have but as much force , as they have reason from the word of God , for the reason is alike in both ; lawfull Pastors cannot command obedience in the Lord , your independent Congregations cannot command that which bindeth the Church to obedience , because the word or a commandement of a Pastor , or your independent Church is onely a commandement ministeriall and limited , and hath as much force as there is reason in it , from the Word of God ; yea the Church of Corin●h hath not then the power of the Lord Jesus to excommunicate the incestuous person , nor the Church of Thyatira , to cast out and condemne Jezabell the false prophetesse ; nor do these commandements of the Synod , or Church assembly have any power to bind the Churches to obedience , because these commandements and decrees of censure are but ministeriall and limited , and in so farre onely of force , as they have reason from the Word of God , as you say .

3. Conclusion : There is an authoritative power in Synods , whereby they may and doe command in the Lord the visible Churches , in their bounds ; the whole Churches are subject to the ordinance and decree of the Church , Act. 1. where with common consent of a Synodicall meeting , Matthias is ordained an Apostle ; Ergo , all the Churches are to take him for an Apostle . This argument cannot bee repelled , because the Apostles by their extraordinary power did choose Matthias . Because , 1. they themselves cite this place to prove the peoples power ordinary , which is to indure to Christs second comming , in calling and electing their owne officers and Elders . 2. Almain x x Almain de potest . eccles. et civ . a Papist alleadgeth the place with good reason , to prove that a generall councell is above Peter or the Pope , because Peter would not choose Matthias without consent of the Apostles and Church . 3. If this was extraordinary that Matthias was chosen , why then is the vow and consent of the Church sought ? for there is nothing extraordinary and Apostolick flowing from an Apostolick spirit , which is concluded or done by the spirit ordinary of the Church of beleevers . So also Act. 6. If the Apostles did not by the ordinary and Synodicall power of ordinary Pastors choose seven Deacons , how doe they first require that the Churches of Grecians and Hebrewes should seek out seven men ? v. 3. and did ordaine them with the common consent of the whole multitude , v. 5. Act. 15. A Synod of moe Churches give decrees which obliege the Churches , v. 28. ch. 16. v. 4. Ergo , Synods have authoritie over the Churches . Those who say this Synod is not a patterne for after Synods , say farre aside ; for their reason is , this was 1. An Apostolick Synod ; 2. the holy Ghost was here ; 3. the thing determined was canonick Scripture . But this is a way to elude all the promises made to Pastors in the word , when as they are first made to Apostles : this promise , Behold I am with you to the ●nd of the world , and this , I will send you the other Comforter , who 〈◊〉 lead you in all truth , cannot bee made to faithfull Pastors , and the Christian Church , that now is , for it is certaine Christ is otherwise present with his Apostles , then with his Pastors after them . And that he gave them a tongue & a spirit when they were before the councels and rulers , as to Apostolick men , as Act. 4. 8. 9 , 10. Act. 5. 29. as Christ promised , Matth. 10. 19. 20. Luk. 21. 13 , 14 , 15. for they were full of the holy Ghost before rulers , but by our brethrens doctrine , it shall follow none of these promises belong to Pastors now adayes in the like , because no pastors now are Apostles . Surely this were to fetter and imprison many glorious promises within the pale of the onely Apostolick Church ; and because Christ ascending to heaven sent downe the Apostolick spirit to his Apostles to write and preach canonick Scripture , it shall follow he fulfilleth that promise , John 16. 13. to none now adayes , because none have the Apostolike spirit in the manner and measure that the Apostles had . Yea further it is canonick Scripture that the Apostles at the last supper did shew forth the Lords death till be come againe ; therefore it shall follow that we have no warrant to shew forth the Lords death till he come againe . 2. But that the Apostles in an ecclesiastick way did determine in the Synod for our imitation , and not in an Apostolike way , is cleare by many evidences in the text , as Act. 15. 2. Paul and Barnabas were sent commissioners to the Apostles and Elders about this question : Paul as an Apostle needed not be sent to know more of the matter then he knew , as an Apostle ; for as an Apostle he knew the whole mystery of the Gospel , Gal. 1. 16. 17. Ephes. 3. 4 , 5. Ergo , he was sent to the Synod as a Pastor , and that as an ordinary Pastor . 2. They came together , v. 6. to consider of this businesse , but as Apostles they needed not the help of a Synod . Ergo , they came together as ordinary Pastors for the Churches after imitation . 3. There was much debating and disputing , v. 7. about the matter . 4. They set down their minds and sentences in order , one after another , as Peter first , v. 7. 8. then Barnabas and Paul , v. 12. then James , v. 13. and to James his sentence the whole Councell agreeth , v. 22. Now what the Apostles , as Apostles and from an infallible Spirit do , they doe it not by seeking light and help one from another . 5. The Decree of the Councell is a thing that Apostles , Elders , and Brethren , and the whole Church resolveth after much dispute , v. 22. But all these , especially brethren , and the whole beleevers , as our Brethren say , doe not joyne themselves with the Apostles , either to write canonick Scripture , or to give their consent to the writing of it , therefore they doe consent by a synodall authority , for the after imitation of the Churches .

Also there bee reasons of moment for Synods ; and 1. if according to the Law of nature , and nations , no man can bee a Judge in his owne cause , then are appeales from the Eldership of one congregation , when they are a party to the accused person , naturall , and from a Session to the Presbyteries and Synods of many moe Elders . But the former is reason , nature , Law of Nations . Ergo , so is the latter . 1. It is best reason which hath most of Scripture . Paul and Barnabas , Act. 15. 1. 2. had no small disputation with those who said circumcision was necessary ; finding their parties could not be Judges . They appeale to a generall councell at Jerusalem , where were the Apostles and Elders ; The Church of the Grecians and the Church of the Hebrewes strive , neither of them can judge other , and both appeale to a higher judicatory , to the twelve Apostles , and their owne Churches meeting with them , and there is the matter determined a●ent helping the poore by Deacons ; if the Judge doe wrong , and one particular congregation shall oppresse one sincere and sound beleever , what remedy hath the care of Christ provided for this ? that the oppressours may be edisied by Church censures , and the oppressed freed , and delivered by remedy of discipline of Christ , whose it is to judge the poore of the people , and to save the children of the needy , Ps. 72. 4. Now it is knowne that Diotrephes doth sometime excommunicate , a a 3. Epist. Joh 9. 10 〈◊〉 . 21. 41. and the evill se●vant ruleth all , b b Hieronymus co● , Lucif . & ●n Gal. 5. Hieronymus saith Arrians ruled all in the dayes of Constantius and Valens : c c Basilius ●● Epist. nob● 〈◊〉 dicere licet , quod in hoc , tempore non ●●● , neque princep● , neque prophets , neque 〈◊〉 que oblatio , ●●que incensu●● , ● Basil saith , we may say in our time , that there is neither Prince , nor Prophet , nor Ru●●● , nor oblation , nor incense : d d Athanasius lib. adsali● . 〈◊〉 . agend . Athanasius and e e ●ineen●●us Lyrinens . ha●s . c. 6. Vincentius Lirinent complain'd that it was in the Arrians times , as with the Church and Prophets in the dayes of Elias : and amongst Papists f f Occam . dial . pak . 3. l. 3● . c. 13. Occam g g Onus ecclesiae , c. 42. the author of Onus ecclesiae , and h h Pra●e Pic. Miran . orat . ad Leon. 10. Picus Mirandula complaine , there was in their time , no saith , no truth , no Religion , no discipline , no modesty ; but all sold offices , Churches , dignities , and benefices , and that ambitious Popes spill all , the Clergy entered by Simony , ruled by Simony , the holy place corrupted . At which times all the godly were crying for a free generall councell , as a remedy against the corruption of inferior judicatories . Sa●ano●ala reputed a Prophet , counselled Charles the eighth of France , to reforme the Church , as he would returne from Italy , with honour , as saith i i Philippus de Comin . l. 8. c. 2. Philip de Comines . k k Gerson de coxil . unius obedient . Gerson pleadeth for the necessity of a generall Councell . l l Genebra●d . Chron. l. 8. an . 991. pag. 554. Genebrard saith , for an hundred and fifty yeeres , Popes , to the number of fifty , had made defection , from the faith and godlinesse of their Ancestors . m m Aventinus annal. Boior . l. 4 pag. 322. Aventinus maketh the same complaint , and n n Almain . in questio . vesperti . Almain also , that Prelats were more eaten up with the zeale of money , then the zeale of Gods house . Is there not need then of a generall Councell ? Hence came also appeales from the Pope . The Emperour Lodovicus Bavarus ( saith o o German . Chron. l. 4. pag. 227. the German Chronicle ) appealed from Pope John 22. misinformed to a generall Councell , and the Pope better informed , and the crime was , because he had taken the title of Emperour before he was confirmed by the Pope , for which he was excommunicated . Sigismond Duke of Austria appealed from Pope Pius the second , to the next succeeding Pope , and a generall Councell under him , for the Pope excommunicated Sigismond , because he kept backe Cardinall Cusan from the Bishoprick of Brixen within his Dominion ; for the Bishoprick was given to him , by a commendam , by the Pope : See p p Aene is Silvius Epist. 14. Aeneas Silvius . Philip the fourth appealed from wicked Boniface the eighth , to the Sea Apostolike then vacant , and to a future Councell ; so q q Platina in Bonifac. 8. Platina relateth . The University of Paris appealed from Leo the tenth , who wickedly condemned the Councell of Basill , to a future Councell , as you finde it in the treatise called r r Fasciculus rerum expetendarum . Fasciculus , &c. The Archbishop of Cullen excommunicated by Paul the third , appealed to a lawful Councel in Germany , because the Pope stood accused of heresie and idolatry , as s s Sleidan com . l. 18. Sleidan saith . The t t Can. 23. q. 3. ne quis in propria causa judicet . See also how great Romanists have made Councels a terrour to wicked Popes and vicious Prelats , as Fanormitan decretal . d. elec . signif. Cusan . concord . l. 2. c. 3. c. 5. c. 10. c. 13. Ocoam . dialog. pa● . 3 ch. 3. c. 13 Almain . vesp . question . glosse of the Canon Law saith , the Pope cannot be Judge in his owne cause ; and we all know how justly Luther appealed from Leo the tenth , to a generall Councell : all which saith that the like is warranted by the Law of nature , where a particular Eldership and congregation is accused of scandals , that superiour Synods there must be to discusse such causes . And the good use of councels you may see in one : The Councell of Constance , Sess. 11. art. 67. condemned John 23. because he taught there was no life eternall , Neque●aliam , post hanc , vitam ; pertinaciter credidit animam hominis cum corpore mori , & extingui , ad instar animalium brutorum , dixitque mortuum semel esse etiam in novissimo die minime resurrecturum . The necessity of Assemblies when common enemies trouble the Church , prove that Christ hath instituted Synods . And 1. our present Authour reasoneth from the Churches necessity , Synods may conveene to examine ( saith he ) either corrupt opinions or suspitious practises ; and citeth for this the Councell of Jerusalem , Act. 15. Now this councell did authoritatively command , Act. 15. 28. Act. 16. 4. Act. 20. 19. and not give advise or counsell onely . 2. If by the Law of nature , and by vertue of the communion of Saints , Churches conveened , may give advise ; then say I , as communion of counsels and advises is lawfull , so by the Law of nature communion of authoritative power is lawfull . As after the eye ( saith w w Almain de authorit . eccles. cap. ult. prop 2. Almain ) seeth the danger of the body , it should give warning to the rest of the members to use their power . And this power ( saith he ) denunciative , or by way of charity , though not authoritative , is in private persons for the conveening of a Councell . As after ( saith Almain x x Almain ibid. propos . 4. Si enim ligata fores dextera manus , aut ad mutum imaginationis pertinaciter nolles vacare defensient co●poris , apud simstram tune defendendi corpus tota residebit authoritas . E●si una pars provincia , inimicis volentibus earn destruere , nollet suceu●rere , quis dubitat reliquam partem , quamvis sit minor numero , pro tunc habere authoritatem totam provinciam defendend● , &c. in the same place ) any is instructed by a skilled Physitian of that which is necessary , for the health and safety of the whole body , he is obliged to use that necessary meane , not now by vertue of the precept , or rather counsell and advise of the Physitian , but by vertue of the precept and authoritative power of the Law of nature , for the safety of his body : yea further ( saith he ) if the right band were fettered with chanizees , or should refuse pertinaciously at the nodde of the imagination to defend the body , then the whole power of defending the body , should remaine in the left hand . And certainly this is most naturall , if a forraine enemy should invade a whole Land , or any part of a Land , the whole Land by the Law of nature were obliged with joynt authority and power to resist that common enemy . Now seeing a number of consociated sister Churches make one visible Church body , having visible communion together , as the Author granteth in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper , which is ( saith he ) a seale of the communion of all the Churches of the Saints , and in other externall Chap. 6. Sect. 1. Bellarm. de Pontif. Rom. l. 2. c. 27. saith the Councell of Chalcedon , is of no force . Azorius instit. moral . to . 2. l. 5. c. 12. A lawfull Councell going a naile breadth from the instruction of the Pope , may erre . acts of Church communion , as hearing the Word , exhorting , rebuking , comforting one another , then are all these visible Churches with united authority and Church power , as Churches , and not as Christians onely , to conveen and condemne a common heretick infecting all or any part of that visible Church body ; and if any one Church or Congregation under the pretence of plenitude of independencie of government within themselves , should refuse to joyne with the whole , yet the authoritative power of Synodicall judging and condemning such a heretick , doth reside by the Law of nature , in the rest of the body . If there bee a communion of gifts , there is also a communion of authoritie . And if a nation have intrinsecally authoritative power under a Prince to repell a common enemy , for the safetie of the whole , then hath a visible body of many Churches in joyning one externall communion of sisterly consociation , under one Christ , one Church , power to repell a scandalous heretick , who is a common enemy to the whole Churches visible .

This Argument is grounded upon the necessitie of Synods ; our brethren are forced to acknowledge their necessitie , by way of counselling , and advising , but Synods as Synods to bee necessary , they thinke popish . The best popish councell wee read of , is that of Basil , where it was ordained that a a Concilium Constant. sess . 39. a generall councell should be holden within five yeers next following , the next councell within seven yeers , and alwayes after that , every ten yeers ; and in the b b Concilium Basil. sess 11. and sess. 11. councell of Basil the Pope is discharged to transgresse that time of convocating a councell . Now the councells as councells are no popish devices , but rather hated by right downe , and well died Papists , as is cleare by Gersons complaint c c Gerson de eccles. potest . consid 10. who saith omission of generall councells is the Churches plugue ; a lover of reformation d d Fran Za barell tract . de schism . Franc. Zabarell saith , wicked P●pes neglecting generall councells , have undone the Church . The learned e e Review of the counsell of Trent , l. 5. c. 6. by a French Papist . author of the review of the councell of Trent saith gravely , It is but a theating of Christ●ndome above board , to leave the judgement of the necessitie of generall councells to the Popes will . and no marvell then Popes decline councells ; for the councell of Pisan ( as f f Bellarmiu . de concil . l. 1. c. ● . Bellarmine granteth ) was convocated against Julius the second that wicked man , and therefore was rejected by Julian the second in the councell of g g Concilium Lateran . sess . 2. & 3. Lateran , yet this councell and all the decrees thereof was approven and confirmed by Alexander the first , who was accounted lawfull Pope ; and (b) Platina (a) Platina in G●egorio . 12. faith , this councell was approved , and that in it Gregory 12. and Benet 13. were deprived of their papall dignitie , all nations assenting , except neither Spaine , the King of Scotland , And because councells are against Papists and Popes , therefore they have taken the sting out of councells , as Ge●a●dus prove●● , to 6. pag. 611. and Earle of Arminac , who followed Pope Benet : and for approbation of the councells of Pise , Constance , and Basil , which censured Popes and deprived them , and subjected them to a generall councell , let any man read the i i Review of the councell of Trent , l. 4. ● . 7. Review of the Councell of Trent , and Bellarmine is therein fully consuted . Also generall councells have condemned the doctrine of the Church of Rome , for which they thinke them not necessary , as the councell of Frankford , saith k k Bellarmin . de concil . 〈◊〉 . Bellarmine , and Basil and Constance are not approved in all , because they favour not the Roman Churches doctrine and the Popes supremacy above Councells ; yea and generall councells cannot bee simply necessary ( saith hee l l Bellarmin . 16. c. 10. quemadmodum 〈◊〉 annis illis 300. ecclesia sine conciliis generalibus incolwnis mansi● , sice●iam potu●sse● aliis C C C. & ●ursus aliis DC . atque aliis mille permanere . because the Catholick Church remained safe , the first three hundreth yeers after Christ , without generall councells , and might have remained safe other three hundreth yeers , and so a thousand yeers , and faults may bee amended by the Lawes of Popes , and by provinciall councells ( saith hee ; ) and their Costerus m m Costerus in Enchir●d . de Pon●if pag 135. saith , the Pope him selfe without councells hath condemned many heresies , and this is a shorter and more compendious way , then by councells , for it is hard and laborious to conveene councells , therefore the Churches salvation doth not depend upon them , saith n n Bellarmin . de Pontif. R m. l. 1. c. 9. Bellarmine , yea it is in vaine ( saith the Jesuit o o pererius com . in Exo. 19. disp. 2. n. 14. Pererius ) to doe that by many , which may as conveniently bee done by fewer , he meaneth councels may be wanted . Our brethren rejecting councells , and their necessitie at all , in this sideth with Papists . Though p p Calvin . instit. l. 4. c. 9. sect. 13. Calvin saith , Nullum esse nec melius , nec certius remedium , that there is no better , nor surer remedy to find out the truth , then a Synod of true Pastors . And Arminians and Socinians thinke that Synods are neither necessary , nor profitable ; for as our brethren here give no authoritie to Synods , but to counsell and advise : the very same is taught by a grand Arminian q q Episcopius disp . 32. thes 4. Episcopius , who saith , Synods are not profitable , for the establishing the truth , or rooting out of errors and heresies , but onely to advise , sist , examine , and by reasons and arguments to perswade , and therefore are not profitable , either for the being , or for the well being of the Church . Synodici conventus nec ad ●esse , nec ad bene esse ecclesiae absolute necessarii sunt ; ad veritatis divinae stabilimentum , & hereseon , errorumque averruns itionem vel exstirpationem , eo tantum casu utiles esse statuimus , si ad deliberandum , ventilandum , examinandum , & rationibus argumentisque persuadendum congregentur ; litium finem facere , circa religionis capita , aliter quam persuadendo , est tyrannidem in ecclesiam invehere , & libertatem conscientiarum , si non omnino tollere , saltem vehementer astringere & ligare . To ●nd controversies in the Church any otherwise , then by perswading , is to bring in a tyranny in the Church of Christ , and to hurt , if not altogether to evert the libertie of consciences of men . And the Arminians in their Apologie r r Remonst. in Apol. c. 25. fol. 289. teach us that a decision or a determination of a Synod obligeth not those who were not present at the making of that decision . And so have I shown from s s Answorth Animadver . pag. 20. Remon . 16. Decisi●nem factam in Synodo non leviter habendam , quin & merito inclinare animos nostros ad acriorem decisionis factae considerationem , sed ut ea cuiquam pros●ribat aut diffentientem cogat ad assensum aut obsequium , ratio non permi●tis . Answorth , and our brethrens doctrine that they teach , people cannot assent , without tyranny of consciences , to the decrees of the Elders , at the making whereof they were not present , and present , consenters . 2. A Synods decision doth incline the mind to consider of the decision , but doth not compell authoritatively to consent and obey . 3. This is violence to the conscience . 4. To fetch expositions of the word from confessions of faith , or decrees of councells is dangerous ; and this is the doctrine of Socinians : for t t Theoph. Nicolaid . in refu . trac . de eccl. c. 9. f. 79. Hac ratione Synodica errores aut controversias non ●olli , sed tantum vim inferri conscientiis nostris . Theophil . Nicolaides saith , the Church in a Synod cannot decide controversies , because shee may erre , neither can shee take them away , for that were to doe violence to mens consciences : and u u Smalcius in refut. lib. de errorih● . Arrian . 1. c. 1. fol. 6. Smalcius saith , this were ( tacite ) quietly to leave the writings of the Apostles , and commend humane traditions . So our brethren give nothing , but a power of counselling and morall perswading to Synods , and no authoritie to command , because ( say they x x Answer to the 8. quest. so the Papists . Pighius lib. 6. c. 10. de eccles. Hierarch . calleth generall councells , Constantini Magni inventum , a devise of Constantine without any warrant of the word of God ; and Iohn Weemes of Craghton denyeth councells to be necessary by any commandement of God , de regis primatu , l 1. c. 7. pag. 74. Cleme●s the seventh said , Counsels are dangerous , if the Popes power be called in question . in their answers to the 32. questions ) Synods may erre , and their decrees have no more force then they fetch reason from Gods Word ; and truely our brethren with Socinians and Arminians here do fall in many foule errors . For , 1. all preaching of the Word , and all power of authoritie of Pastors commanding in the name of the Lord , faith and obedience , is onely morall and to perswade , and not authoritative to command , because Pastors may as well erre in preaching , as the Church may erre in Synods . 2. Because what Pastors preach hath no more force over the conscience , then they have warrant to speake from the Word of God , as is cleare , Ezek. 3. 7. Gal. 1. 9. 1 Thess. 2. 13. 2. All confessions of faith that are set downe by lawfull Synods are null . 3. Libertie of prophecying , and a Cassandrian licence of beleeving in things controverted , any thing in this or on that side , is lawfull . 4. A perpetuall doubting of conscience , except in two or three points fundamentall , that all Christians beleeve , yea and all hereticks , is brought in in the Church . 5. The Lords working with the word preached , is but by way of morall perswasion . 6. But our Divines hold the authoritie of Synods , and of Pastors preaching the Word from the Scriptures : z z Matth. 18. 17. Matth. 28. 19. Joh. 20. 25. Act. 15. 28. 29. 1 Cor. 7. 25. 35 and 14. 29. 32 , 33. Gal. 6. 16. Coloss. 2. 7. 8. but I find both our brethren and Arminians do misken the authority of the Church , and of Pastors in both Preaching and Synods , for they thinke to set up the authoritie of Synods , is to cast downe the authoritie of the Scriptures , because things to bee distinguished are confounded ; for wee deny that Synods or Pastors have peremptory , absolute , and illimited authoritie , and power to determine as they please in Sermons and Synods , their Power is limited according to the Word of God , and their word is onely to bee beleeved , in so farre as it is agreeable to the Word of God ; but hence it followeth not , that Pastors and Synods have no power and authoritie at all to determine , but onely to counsell , advise and perswade ; for private Christians , our equalls and inferiours , have power to counsell , perswade , and advise in a private way by teaching , a a Col. 3. 16. admonishing , b b 1 Thes. 5. 11. 12. Heb. 3. 13. exhorting , c c I. evit . 19. 17. rebuking , d d Mal. 3. 16. conference .

They build upon the reproving of events of councells by e e Nazienzen ad Procopium epist. 55. alias 42. Ego , si vera scribere oporiet , ita am●no affectus sum , ut omnia ●piscoporum concilia fugiam , quoniam nulli●s concilii fine us 〈◊〉 faustuinque vidi . Nazianzen , which is not against their authoritie and true fulnesse , and he speaketh of the councells of his time , and it is not to bee denyed but f f Panormitan de electr●ne , C. significast● . Panormitan saith well , dictum unius privati est praeferendum dicto papae , si ille moveretur melioribus rationibus veteris & novi Testamenti ; and g g Augustine contra Do●●tist . l. 2. c. 3. priora concilia a pos●erioribus cor●●gi Augustine saith , latter councells may correct older councells ; and Petrus de h h Petrus de Monte in Monarchia Concil. terti● . nu. 1. Monte under Eugenius complained that there was no godly and learned Bishops in his time , to determine truth in a Synod , when Doctors , Professors , Bishops , and all have sworne obedience to the Pope , to their Occumenick councells , and to the wicked decrees of the councell of Trent , as the Bull of Pius the fourth requireth .

But before I say any thing of the second question anent the magistrates power , I shall close the other wayes of communion of sister Churches .

CHAP. 6. SECT. 5.

Three other wayes of communion of sister Churches .

A Fift way of communion ( saith the author ) is by helping and contributing to sister Churches , Prophets , and Teachers , when Manuscrip . they are in scarstie , as Act. 11. 29. Rom. 15. 25. 26.

Ans. This way of communion we acknowledg , but we see not how this communion can stand , wi●hout the authoritie of Synods ; if Churches bee not united in one visible body , they cannot authoritatively send helpe of teachers one to another ; and this is a direct acknowledgement of a visible union of more Churches in one visible body ; for the Church of Jerusalem authoritatively sent Pastors , Paul and Barnabas , as Pastors to the Gentiles , you will have them sent as gifted men , and that they are not Pastors while they bee ordained , and chosen by these Churches to which they goe .

A sixt way of communion ( saith hee ) is by admonition ; if a sister Church or any member thereof bee scandalous , wee are then to send Elders to warn them to call Archippus or any other Elder , to take heed to do their dutie ; if the Elders or Church bee remisse in consuring , wee are to take the helpe of two or three Churches moe ; if yet that Church ●eare not , wee are to tell a Congregation of Churches together ; or if the offence bee weightie , wee are to withdraw the right hand of fellowship from such a Church , and to forbeare all such sort of exercise of mutuall brotherly communion with them , which all the Churches of Christ are to walke in , one towards another .

Answ. You acknowledge that same order which Christ commandeth , Matth. 18. to gaine a brother , is to bee kept in the gaining of scandalous Churches . But 1. What warrant have you of the two first steps of Christs order against scandalous Churches , and to omit the third judiciall and authoritative way , when sister Churches turne obstinate ? Christs order for gaining the scandalous is as necessary in the third , as in the former two . 2. Why doe you allow the third in a sort ? for if the sister Church will not bee admonished , you will have her rebuked , before moe sister Churches , that are conveened , that is , before a Synod ; is it because you thinke there is more authority in a Synod , then in one sister Church ? then you thinke there is authoritie in a Synod ; for by good Logick , wee may inferre the positive degree from the comparative , and there is no other reason why the matter should come before a Synod , for all in a Synod wanteth authority and power to censure , as you thinke , yet to complaine to a Synod is an acknowledgement of the authoritie of a Synod , as Christs order saith , Matth. 18. 17. If hee neglect to heare them , tell it to the Church .

3. What is the withdrawing of brotherly communion from obstinate sister Churches , but as a a Amesius , l. 4. c. ● . n. 26. de conscient . Amesius saith well , excommunication by proportion and analogie ? Ergo , say I , in this a Synod hath a Synodicall authoritie over the Churches within the bounds of the Synod by proportion , for who can inflict a punishment of a Church censure , by proportion answerable to excommunication , but a Church , or a Synodicall meeting , which hath the power of the Church by proportion ? Amesius would prove that a particular Church cannot bee excommunicated , because a Church cannot bee cast out of communion with it selfe , for then she should bee cast out of herselfe . But this argument with reverence of so learned and godly a man , proveth onely that a particular Church cannot excommunicate herselfe , which I grant , but it concludeth not , but a particular obstinate Church may bee excommunicated out of the societie of all sister Churches , who meeting in a Synod in the name of Jesus Christ have power to save the spirits of sister Churches in the day of the Lord , and are to edifie them by counsell and rebuking , as the Author granteth , and why not by an authoritative declaring that they will have no communion with such an obstinate sister or rather daughter Church ?

Wee have never , saith the Author , been put to the utmost extent Manuscript . of this dutie , the Lord hitherto preventing by his grace , yet it is our dutie . The Church , Cant. 8. tooke care not onely for her owne members , but also for her little sister , that had no brests , and would have taken care , if having breasts they had been distempered with corrupt milke : if the Apostles had a care of all the Churches , 1 Cor. 8. 11. is that spirit of grace and love dead with them ? ought not all the Churches to care for sister Churches , if not , virtute officii , by vertue of an office , yet intuitu charitatis , for charities sake ?

Answ. That you have never beene put to these duties to the utmost , will never prove that the government is of God , for Corinth , Ephesus , Pergamus , Thyatira , which were glorious Churches by your owne confession , were put to a necessitie of the utmost extent of these duties ; yea it proveth your government to bee rather so much the worse , because Christs government is opposed by secret enemies in the Church .

2. You make the spirit of love in a pastorall care over other Churches to bee dead , because none have any pastorall care over any other Churches , but the particular Congregation over which they are Pastors , and pastorall love to unconverted ones , as pastorall , you utterly deny .

The last way of communion ( saith the Author ) is by propagation or multiplication , which is , as the Apostles had immediat calling from Manuscript . God to travell through the world , and to plant Churches , so have particular Churches given to them immediatly from Christ , the fulnesse of measure of grace , which the inlargement and establishment of Christs kingdome doth require , that is , when the Bee-hive a parishionall congregation is surcharged , they have power to send forth their members , to enter , by Covenant , in Church-state amongst themselves , and may commend to them such able gifted Ministers , as they thinke may bee Ministers in that young Church .

Answ. 1. This way of inlarging Christs kingdome is defective . 1. It sheweth the way of inlarging the number of invisible Churches , and multitudes of converts into new incorporations , but doth shew no way how to plant soules who were non-converts , and branches of the wild olive in Christ Jesus , and to make new visible Churches ; but it is certaine that the Apostles as Apostles , and as Pastors , by vertue of their office converted obstinate sinners to the faith of Christ , and planted them in a visible Church , consisting of professors of the faith , partly converted , partly not converted ; but the pastors by your doctrine have no power as Pastors , or by any Pastorall authoritie , to plant the Gospell where it hath never beene , that pastorall spirit is dead with the Apostles ; and in this , contrary to all reason and sense , and contrary to the Scriptures , you make private Christians the successors of the Apostles to plant Churches , and to convert soules , and to make them fit materialls for the visible Church of regenerate persons ; for Pastors as Pastors , and visible Churches as visible Churches doe nothing at all to the multiplying of Churches , seeing Pastors and visible Churches as they are such , by your doctrine , are but nurses to give suck to those who are already converted , but not fathers to convert them ; for private Christians , or pastors as Christians gifted to prophesie , not as Pastors , doe multiply Churches , and convert men to Christ , as you teach , now wee all know that nurses as nurses doe not propagate , or by generation multiply people in the Common-wealth , that fathers and mothers onely can doe ; your Churches have no ministeriall breasts , but to give suck to babes who are already borne : but wee see by your doctrine no ministeriall power of Pastors or Churches to send forth members to enter in a Church covenant , or to enter in a new Church relation of a daughter , or a sister visible Church ; if they send a number to bee a new Church , your Pastors or visible Church did not multiply them , it is presumed they were converts , before they were members of the visible Church , which now sendeth them out ; and if they bee multiplied in the bosome of your visible Church and converted , they were not truely members of that visible Church before their conversion , and also that they were not converted by any publike ministery , but by private Christians gifted to prophesie , who are the onely successors of the Apostles to plant visible Churches : but what pastorall authoritie have you to send them forth to bee a new visible Church ? none at all ? they have as beleevers power to remove from you , and because of multiplication , to make themselves a new Church , and this ministeriall power of making themselves a new Church they have not from you , but from their fathers who converted them , so that you make a visible Church within a visible Church , but not a Church begotten or borne of a visible Church , as a child of the mother ; and wee desire a word of God , either precept , promise , or practise of such a Church multiplication , mans word is not enough .

2. Wee hold that the sending of the Apostles to all the world was not in it selfe , that which essentially distinguisheth the Apostle from the now ordinary Pastor , who is fixed to a single Congregation , but the gift of tongues to preach to all the world upon the Lords intention to send the Gospel to all nations , that as many as were chosen to life , might beleeve , was that which essentially differenceth the Apostle from the ordinary pastor , together with a speciall revelation of God , to goe to such and such people , to Macedonia , and not yet to Bythinia . And now seeing these two are taken away , the ordinary Pastors which now are , have as Pastors a sufficient calling to preach the Gospel to all nations , to whom by Gods providence they shall come , and can understand their language , whether of their owne Congregation or not . Neither is a Pastor tied as a Pastor by Gods Word , to one onely Congregation , for then it should bee unlawfull for a Pastor as a Pastor to plant a new Church ; but shall it bee lawfull for private Christians to plant new Churches , who are not the Apostles successors , and yet it shall bee unlawfull for Pastors , who are the undoubted successors of the Apostles , to plant new Churches ? I would think that admirable doctrine , for so you give to private Christians that which you make essentiall to the Apostles , and you deny it to the undoubted successors of the Apostles , to wit , to Pastors . But we hold a lawfull Pastor is a Pastor in relation to all the world , with this distinction , hee is by Christs appointment and the Churches a Pastor to all congregations , to plant and water , and preach , but by speciall designation of Gods providence , and the Churches appointment designed and set apart for such a determinate flock , just as the Apostles in generall were made Pastors to all the world , Matth. 28 19. Go teach all nations , but by speciall revelation and Apostolick appointment , Peter was appointed the Apostle of the Jewes , Paul of the Gentiles , Gal. 2. 9. yet Paul was a Pastor in relation to the Jewes , and Peter also in relation to the Gentiles : so by speciall revelation , Act. 16. they are forbidden to preach the word in Bythinia , and commanded to preach it elsewhere ; and for this cause , pious antiquity , as Morton a a Morton Apol. par . 2. c. 14. pag. 422. observeth , called some learned fathers Pastors of the World , b b Russinus l 2. ●ist . c. 26. Athanasius is saluted Pontifex maximus , as Russinus saith , and Origen magister ecclesi●rum , master of the Churches , so c c Hieronymus de loc. hele●o . Hieronymus , and Cyprian totius orbis praeses , Cyp●ian the Bishop of all the world , yea and Pope , so d d Nazianz. Seimon . de Cypriano . Nazianz. Hilarius is called by e e Augustin l. 1. contr. Julian . Augustine insignis ecclesiae doctor , a renowned teacher of the Church , and f f Nazianz. Epist. 10. ad Basilium . Nazianzenus calleth Basilius the light of the word , and g g Damasc. de fid. orthod. l. 4. c. 17. Damascenus the light of the whole world , and h h Theodoret. hist. l. 5. c. 32. Theodoret saith Chrysostome is called totius orbis terrarum doctor , the Doctor and teacher of the whole world : all which titles saith evidently that antiquitie beleeved never a Pastor , or Bishop , not to bee a Pastor onely in relation to the one single Congregation , whereof hee is Pastor , but a Pastor in relation to the whole visible Church , though by designation of the Church his ministery bee appropriated to one particular Church . Thus it is cleare that our brethren deny all communion of Churches , while they confine a visible Church to one onely single and independent Congregation , subjected in its visible government to Christ Jesus immediatly , and to no universall visible Church or Synod on earth .

Quest. II. Whether the Magistrate hath power to compell persons to a Church profession ?

Anent Magistrates sundry things are questioned to make presbyteriall government odious . And first our brethren complaine that our Churches are constitute by the authoritie of the Magistrate , i i Robinson iustific . of separat . pag 374. Robinson saith , it was a presumptuous enterprise , that people were haled against their will into covenant with God , to sweare obedience to the protestant Faith , being a profane multitude , living before in grosse idolatry , and that by the authority of the supreme magistrate , for the commandement of the magistrate ( say they ) can make no members of the visible Church , or of Christs body , because it is a voluntary act of obedience to Christ , that men adjoyne themselves to the visible Church ; Ergo , none can be compelled thereunto by the authoritie of the Magistrate ; faith may bee counselled , it cannot bee compelled . For the clearing of this question , these considerations are to bee weighed .

1. The Magistrate may compell to the meanes , and externall acts of worship , and to desisting from externall false worship of the false God , or of the true God worshipped in a false way , hee cannot compell to internall acts of faith , love , and such like , as having no power over the conscience .

2. There is one consideration of a Heathen or Pagan nation which never received Christianitie , and the true faith , and another consideration of a nation baptized and professing Christ .

3. A Magistrate may compell a heathen nation to the negative reverence of Christ in a indirect way , and that with the sword , though he cannot compell to the positive worshipping of him : if a Christian Prince subdue a Pagan nation , hee cannot force them with the Sword to a positive receiving of the doctrine of the Gospell , but if it bee a nation expressely blaspheming Christ , as the nation of the Jewes now do , hee may compell them to an abstinence from a professed blaspheming of Christ , because he is to use the sword against blasphemy .

4. The weapons of the Church as the Church are not carnall , but spiritual and mightie through God .

5. The compelling power of the Magistrate is terminated upon externall worship as abstracted from either hypocrisie or sinceritie in worship ,

6. Though no man resist the Magistrate in a matter of religion , except in a hypocriticall way , save onely he who thinketh hee hath reason 〈◊〉 , and is led by the judgement and inditement of conscience to resist , ●et is not the in litement of conscience , but onely the Word of God ●et rule of mans obedience , or resisting in actions , purposes & conversation .

1. Conclusion . Fire and sword , or warre , or the coactive power of a magistrate is not Gods way of planting the Gospell in a heathen nation , which never heard of the Gospell before . 1. Because the Apostles were commanded , by teaching the Gospell to all nations , Matth. 28. 19 , 20. Mark . 16. 15. Act. 7. 8. and not by warre , to spread the Gospel . 2. Because Christs Kingdome is not of this world , for then his servants would fight for him , Joh. 18. 36. nor are the weapons of our warfare carnall , 2 Cor. 10. 4. nor is Christs sword any other thing , then the Word of God , Rev. 19. 15. Gal. 6. 17. And in this meaning , and with relation to the internall acts of sound beleeving , have the learned taught us , that , religio suaderi potest , cogi non potest : if these bee the constitutions of a a Clemens in constitut . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Clemens , let it goe for a truth in this sense , that God hath given libertie of will to men , not punishing them with temporall death , but calleth them to give an account of ●●eir doings , in the life to come : which yet cannot bee universally true , except that the Author with Anabaptists take away the power of the civill magistrate ; and b b Athanasius . Athanasius meaned with us , when hee citeth that , If any will come after me , let him take up his crosse ; to prove that the will cannot bee compelled ; and that of c c Lactantius Inst it . l. 5. c. 19. Lactantius is approved by all , defendenda tamen religioest , non occidendo , sed moriendo , non saevitiâ , sed sapientiâ , non s●●lere , sed fide ; illa enim malorum sunt , baec bonorum ; & necesse est bonum in religione versari , non malum : Nam si sanguine , si tormentis , si malo religionem defendere velis , jam non defendetur illa , fed polluetur , & violabitur . Nihil est tam voluntarium quam religio , in qua si animus sacrificantis est eversus , jam sublata , jam nulla est : all which tendeth to this , that religion is like free-will , and free-will like a Virgin which cannot bee ravished . Let that of d d Tertul. Tertullian stand , Lex nostra non se vindicat ultore gladio● e e Procopius in Arca. histor. Procopius saith that Justinian was blamed , because hee compelled the Samaritans to imbrace the Christian faith .

2. Conclusion . A Christian Prince subduing a heathen Nation , may compell them to desist from a negative dis●onouring of Christ , and from an externall false worship . Dan. 3. 29. Therefore I make a Decree , that every People , Nation , and Language , which speake any thing amisse against the God of Sadrach and Abednego , shall be cut in peeces , and their houses shall be made a dung●ill . 2. The Magistrate beareth not the sword for nothing , or invaine , for he is the minister of God , a revenger to execute wrath on those who doe evill , Rom. 13. 4. Therefore he should be Gods Minister to execute wrath on those who dishonour Christ . Nor must we approve of that of Tiberius , f f Ta●itus in Tiberio , De●rum in ●u●iae D●●s curae sant . that Gods take care of wrongs dene to themselves : and that of the Emperour Alexander , g g l. 2. God . de ●eb . Ged . juris juran●ts contempia religio satis De●● ultorem habet . it 's sufficient that the breach of an oath hath God to be the revenger . Yet the Emperour h h In Lege nemo Codice de Pagan . Constantine commanded all the Churches of the Pagan Gods to be closed up , and i i Ambr●sius Epist. 30. Ambrose and k k Augustin . Epist. 48. Augustine both commended the fact ; and Ferdinand King of Spaine , commanded all the Jewes , who would not turne Christians , to remove out of Spaine .

3. Conclus . Where a Nation hath embraced the faith , and sworne thereunto in Baptisme , it is lawfull for the Magistrate to compell them to professe that truth to the which they have sworne in Baptisme . 1. Because the Magistrate is a keeper of both Tables of the Law . Ergo , he may take care that these who are baptized , and sworne to be followers of Christ , should professe what they have sworne to professe . 2. Because the Magistrate may compell , ad actus imperatos , non ad actus elicitos , commanded and externall acts of worship , though he have no power over the conscience to command the elicit acts of will and mind . 3. He may command to use the meanes of Religion , though he cannot force Religion it selfe : and this Jehoshaphat , Ezechiah , Asa , and Josiah , and other good Kings commanded , and in that are set forth to all Princes as patterns of zeale . 4. The most pungent argument of our brethren in the contrary is of no weight , because ( say they ) for one to adjoyn himself to the visible Church in a profession of the faith , it is a supernaturall worke of Grace , and must be voluntary , else the Magistrate should compell men to hypocrisie , yea and he should , saith l l Gregorius de Valentia to . 3. disp. 1. punc . 6. q. 10. de infidelita te arg. . 4. Gregorius de Valentia , following Cajetanus , indirectly concurre to sacriledge , to profane the holy things of God ; and feare of punishment maketh an action against the will , secundum quid , in some respect , and for the point of supernaturality of professing , m m D●●andus 4. santen . d. 4. q. 6. 〈◊〉 . 1. Durandus handleth it . Now ( I say ) that this is of no weight , because ( as n n Suarez , de 〈…〉 disp . 18. sect 2. n. 5. Suarez . saith ) one may be compelled to heare the Word , who yet cannot be compelled to beleeve ; so ( say I ) to make such a profession , as may constitute any one a member of the visible Church , is no supernaturall act , though there be a morall obligation tying the professours to the supernaturall sincerity of the act , yet there is no essentiall obligation , as touching the essence of a visible member tying him thereunto , and therefore the Magistrate may compell thereunto , and so o o Antonius 2. p. 111. 12 c. 2. Antonius following p p Gregorius 7. Epist. 30. Gregorius doe teach that an indirect compulsion to the faith is lawfull ; and the compelling power of the Magistrate is terminated upon the profession , not upon the hypocrisie of the profession ; else it were as good an argument to prove that the Magistrate by the sword cannot compell subjects to ab●taine from murther , sorcery , perjury ; because many in an hypocriticall and servile manner , for feare of the Magistrates wrath , not for feare of God , doe abstaine from these ils , nor is their abstinence from worshipping idols , a thing of it selfe , as the Magistrate commandeth it , supernaturall . Neither would men by the Covenant of the Lord , which King Asa did cause the people to sweare , to wit , that they should seeke the Lord God of their fathers , 2 Chron. 15. 12. be compelled , so as their seeking of God , should not be willingly performed . 5. This opinion is the way to Arminian liberty of conscience , that men in a Christian Common-wealth , may be of any Religion , and the Magistrate is to behold men as an indifferent spectator , not caring what religion they bee of , whether they be Papists , Jewes , Pagans , Anabaptists , Socinians , Macedonians , &c. which should inferre , that the Magistrate were no nurse-father of the true Church , nor yet a preserver of Religion , if men might be of any Religion . Neither is this the way ( as saith q q Robinson justif . of separa . pag. 224. Robinson ) to the Papists implicite faith , when men beleeveth , as the Church beleeveth , though they know not what it is : nor is it a compelling of men ( as he saith ) to blasphemy , and apparent wickednesse , because the Magistrate is not to compell to profession of the truth immediately , and without any foregoing information of the mind ; for the Church is to teach and instruct in all the externall acts of worship , before the Magistrate doth compell to these acts ; yea and the same r r Robinson . justif . pag. 373. Robinson acknowledgeth that Jehoshaphat made compulsive lawes about Religion . Ergo , if he should execute these Lawes , he should compell to some acts of Religion , and should compell to hypocrisie , as the same Mr. Robinson argueth against us .

4. Conclus . It is one thing to command acts of divine worship , under the paine of civill punishment , and another thing to punish , or inflict civill punishment , when these commandements are transgressed , Christian Princes may doe both . And that they doe the latter by Gods commandement and warrant is cleare , in that Jehu destroyed all the house of Ahab for Idolatry , and killed Baals Priests . Good Josiah killed the Priests of 2 King . 10. the high places , and burnt their bones upon the Altar . Elias , when the Magistrate would not doe his duty , in an extraordinary way , killed Baals Priests ; and if the Magistrate also in the New Testament have the sword given to him of God , for the punishing of evill doers , as Rom. 13. 4 , 5. that same Law must now also have force , though in the use of the sword sundry hereticks are here to be distinguished , as 1. seducing hereticks , drawing others away , from the worship of the true God to idolatry , such are not to be pitied by the Magistrate , as Deut. 13. 5 , 6 , 7. Zach. 13. 4 , 5 , 6. whereas seduced , and drawne away soules , for simple heresie , cannot be put to death . 2. Hereticks falling away in many particulars from the faith to Popery , or other hereticall wayes , are more severely to be punished , then those who are hereticks in one or two fundamentall points onely . And those who are universall Apostates , and fall from the Christian faith to Judaisme and Paganisme , deserve no lesse then death . 3. Selfe-condemned hereticks , after sufficient information , and malitious opposers of the truth , deserve harder dealing , then simply seduced hereticks . 4. All who beleeve blasphemies to be truth , and hold them , are not to be reckoned amongst formall blasphemers , whose malice carrieth them on to raile upon the unspotted wayes of God . 5. No hereticks having false opinions of God , such as Antinomians and Libertines , who thinke that the regenerate cannot sinne , or that the worshipping of a creature is not idolatry , can be innocent , as if ●●●mply acts of the judgement and mind not conforme to Gods will revealed in his word were not sinnes , ( as Arminians teach ) whereas all the faculties of the soule are under Gods Law . 2. Hardly doth the mind conceive false thoughts of God , or his worship , but there be wicked crookes in the will and affections inclining thereunto the mind , and smoaking the mind with will-guiltinesse .

6. Except God was too rigorous and cruell in the Old Testament ( God avert such blasphemous thoughts ) what ever punishment even to bloud and death was inflicted upon hereticks , seducing Prophets , Idolaters , Apostates , these same stande yet in the plentitude of morall obligation against such as offend in the New Testament , if the Magistrate beare the Lords sword , as he doth in the New Testament , Rom. 13. 4 , 5.

Monfortius the Anabaptist as s s Beza de haeretic . a magist . pun . pag. 158. 159. Beza saith , had no Scripture to say , because Christ is a meeke Saviour , all corporall punishment inflicted upon hereticks in the Old Testament , is turned over in spirituall punishment ; onely our brethren who deny that the Magistrate can compell any to an externall profession of the Gospel , doe herein follow Arminians and Socinians . So the t t Remonst. in confess . c. 24. Sect. 9. qui haereticidie aut simili tyrannidi aut persecution● ullo modo patrocinentur , a m●●issimo Christi spiritu prorsus alieni sunt . Re●onstrants , and w w Epis●●pius . disp . 28. Thes. 25. Episcopius deny that the Magistrate can use any bodily punishment against hereticks . The learned x x Professores Leidens . in sua cens . 16. id Socinianae doctrinae c●rsentaneum quidem est . Professors of Leiden observe that Arminians here teach that same with the Socinians , and the same is refuted well by y y Nicolaus Vedelius ar●a . Arminianis . par. 1. l. 2. c. 9. Vedelius , yea and Gerardus , and z z Joan. Gerard. 10. 6. de Magistrat . politico . n. q. 2. n. 314. pag. 743. 744. Mersnerus , and other pretended Disciples of Luther in this side with Arminians and Socinians : and Socinians teach in this , 1. that Hereticks should not be molested nor punished with the sword . So a a Socinus de off●c . ●om . Christ . c. 1. Socinus , b b Nicolaides defe●● . tract . de eccles. c 4. fol. 73. 93. 94. Theophilus Nicolaides , c c Ostor●dius Christ . relig. c. 29. Ostorodius , because the tares are not to be rooted out till harvest . 2. d d Episcopius disp . 13. Thes. 18. 19. Episcopius , e e Henr. Slatius apert . doct. f. 53. Slatius amongst Arminians , and f f Ostorodius inst. relig. c. 28. Ostorodius , and g g Cateches. Ra●cov●ens . de proph. Mun. I. Christi c. 1. f. 136. the Catechise of Raccovia teach farther , that the Magistrate may punish by fines and pecuniall mulcts , but he cannot shed bloud , or punish to death any murtherer , because the Commandement of our meeke Saviour , doth not permit to take away any mans life ; now it is certaine meeke Jesus , while hee was on earth , did neither fine nor imprison , more then put to death . 3. So●inians teach that all warres under the new Testament are unlawfull ; for saith Smal●ius , h h Smal●ius 〈…〉 . disp . 7. pig . 241. acut● ejus●nadi d●lectio est quae interficere ali u●n permit●● et jubet . warres cannot consist with the 〈◊〉 of our enemie , commanded by Christ : i i v●d . Socin . in defens . sent V●●es . p. ● Raccoviensi adversus Jac. Paeleol . de mag. p ●n pag. 1 fol. 13. Socinus and Ostorodius say it is an old precept not to shed blood , and never retracted in the New Testament , and God licenced it to the Jewes , because he promised to them an earthly kingdome , which hee hath not now promised under the New Testament . Our Divines hold ringleading and seducing hereticks are to bee punished to death , for so k k Beza . 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 is a magist . puniend . advers Ma●tin ●●lling vol. 1. ●pus pag. 85. & se● . Beza , l l Junius advers. 〈◊〉 . edit . Heidelbu● . an . 15 91. p. 40. Junius , m m Bucanus loc. com . 49. Bucanus , n n Zanchius , 10. 2. m●s● . de 〈◊〉 . Zanchius , o o Perkias . in cath●l . reformat . convo . 21. c. 2. pag. 367. Perkinsius , p p Daneus in Etlic Christian. l 2. c. 13. Daneus , q q Bulling. 〈◊〉 . 18. fol. 89. Bullingerus , r r Professo . Leyden ●s c●nsa Re non . c : 24 sect. 9. the Professors of Leiden teach .

All that can be said commeth to this , that Hereticks should not bee punished , 1. s s Cyprian ad De 〈◊〉 . Si quid 〈◊〉 tuis nu 〈◊〉 & poteslatis es● , ipsi in 〈…〉 su●gent , ipsi se majestate sua defendent : pude●t te ●os celere , quos ipse de sendis , pudeat tutelam ab ipsis sparare , quos tu 〈◊〉 . Cyprian saith to Demetrius that hee was greater then his Gods , because he revenged the wrongs done to his Gods , and that it was a shame for him to hope for helpe from the Gods which hee behooved to defend .

Answ. This proveth that the false Gods of Demetrius were but false Gods , because they were not able to revenge the wrongs done to themselves , as the true God , who made the heaven and the earth , can doe , but nothing against the punishing of the Hereticks , for then it should follow , that blasphemy against the holy Ghost , and no sinnes should bee punished , for all sinnes are injuries done to God , and therefore neither Magistrates , nor parents , nor doctors , yea nor the Church should use any rod , either corporall or spirituall , against subjects , children , or scandalous persons , because God can revenge his owne quarrell ; yea excommunication is a revenging of a wrong done to God . 2. They object the Apostles way was to watch against Hereticks , Act. 20. 29. 31. and Rom. 16. 17. to es●hew them , 2 Tim. 2. 25. the servant of the Lord must bee gentle .

Answ. This is objected by t t 〈…〉 . Gerardus , as also because they may bee converted , Ergo , they are not to bee killed , Christ would not have fire comming downe from heaven to destroy the Sa 〈◊〉 , for afterward they were converted ; but wee thinke not any should be put to death for simple heresie , as u u 〈◊〉 in 〈…〉 p. 13 : 9 Mus●u●us and Whittaker teach , they are to bee instructed , censured , x x 〈◊〉 ad Campian . pag 2 ▪ 4. rebuked , eschewed , but though Ananias and Saphira might bee converted , Peter strake them with death , and Paul did right in ●iking Elymas the Sorcerer with blindnesse , Act. 13. because he laboured to turne away Sergius Paulus from the faith , these were extraordinary judgements , but yet they doe well prove that where the Magistrate is armed with authority , hee ought to inflict bodily punishment upon the seducing hereticks , so it hee done as y y Augustine cp●st . 47. ●d 〈…〉 . 50 ad 〈…〉 . Augustine saith , Animo corrigendi , non vindicandi . See z z Beza de la 〈…〉 . punten● . pag. 161 , 162. Beza , a a Professors of I ciden in censur . confess . Remonst. c. 24. sect. 9. Professors of Leyden , and what Elias did by an extraordinary power in killing Baals Priests , that Achab the then supreme Magistrate should have done . 3. They object that it is contrary to the meeke spirit of Christ in the New Testament , that any should bee punished for heresie , and that it is proper to enemies of the truth , and Antichrist so to doe , as their b b 〈◊〉 . histori . l. 12. c. 4 practise declare . Nestorius being made Archbishop of Constantinople , said to the Emperour , I will give thee heaven O Emperour , if thou with free the earth of hereticks ; Dioscorus compelled , with armed souldiers , the Bishops to subseribe to the heresie of Entyches ; Eud●xius the Arrian obliged Valens the Arrian Emperour to root out 〈◊〉 orthodox professors . The Turke in his Alcoran commandeth to kill all who obey not his law .

Answ. The sword is expressely given by God , Rom. 13. to Christian Magistrates , and this is not against the meeknesse of Christ , no more nor to deliver to Satan , or to curse and excommunicate Apostats with that great curse called Anath●ina Maranatha , 1 Cor. 16. 22. And though Hereticks and Mahomet teach that Hereticks , as also they teach that manslayers , adulterers , paricides should die the death , it followeth not that we are not to teach the same . Fourthly , The parable of letting the Tares grow , while the day of judgement is alleaged . It is true c c Chrysostom . ●om . 47. in Matth. 13. Chrysostome saith that many innocent persons are killed in the rooting out the tares by bloody warres ; d d Chrysolog . serm . 79. Chrysologus saith , Neither Matthew the publican , nor Paul should have beene comerted , if the Sword had beene used , and Augustine e e Augustine in lib. quaest. ex Matth. 12. seemeth to call the tares haereticorum falsitates , and f f Theophylac . com . in loc. Matth. 13. Theophylact , Zizania sunt haereses . But I answer , Christ exponeth the tares 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Syriace 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 g g Beza in anno● . Mar. Matth. 13. 38. Beza , filii illius improbi , h h Erasmus in locum eundem . Erasmus diaboli , the children of the devill , and Theophylact addeth , Zizania sunt h●reses , vel malae cogitationes , and Gerardus perverteth Theophylact , for he extendeth the tares not onely to Hereticks , but also to wicked men , to Matthew who was a publican , but not a Heretick properly . And first the field is the world of the visible Church , where the seed of the Word is sowne , and it must bee meaned of all scandalous persons in Christs visible kingdome , so all shall bee spared , and there shall neither bee use of the Magistrates sword , nor of the Church discipline in the Church , as Anabaptists expone the place . 2. There should Deus non per●ittit haeretico be llis consumi similiter neque propter mal●s cogitatienes vult Deus exscindi hominem : si Mattheus excisus esset ex hac vita , cum esset zizanium , simul etiam excisum esset fr●nent●n quod postea ex ipso erat oriturum . not so much as rebukes and threatnings beene used , but wicked men should bee permitted to grow , while the day of judgement , that the Angels root them out . Now it is knowne that the power of the word preached hath rooted out some tares , because it hath converted them . 3. Hereticks are not all things which offend ; the incestuous Corinthian offended also . 2. Onely Hereticks are not such as worke iniquitie , there bee others also in the visible Church , as our brethren expone , Revel. 22. 15. nor are onely hereticks to be cast out in the furnace of fire , where there shall bee weeping and gnashing of teeth . 3. Nor are onely the good wheat those who are orthodox and opposite to hereticks , who shall shine as the Sunne in the kingdome of their father , p. 42. 43. except wee would say that all sound in the faith and holding no hereticall doctrine shall shine in the firmament as the Sun . 4. The casting out of Hereticks out of the visible Church by excommunication is a rooting of them out of the field of the visible Church ; Let more of this be seen and considered in those who have written thereof , as in G●rardus , loc. cit . Beza de puniend . Haeret. Bellarm. de laicis , c. 21. Costerus Enchirid. de mori●us haereticor . Pelr. Gregorius , lib. 12. de repub . c. 4. Suarez . de tripl . virtut. theolog . disp. 18. sect. 2. Gregorius de Valent. 〈◊〉 . 3. disp. l. q. 10. punc . 6. Jus Canonicum C. Quid autem . dist. 49. Meiser . lib. 4. de legibus , sect . 1. ● . 10 , 11 , 12. Lipsius l. 4. 〈◊〉 . c. 2. Co●●d B●unus , l. 3. de haeretic . c. 13. Paulus Windeck . lib. de exs●irpandis haeretic .

APPENDIX . A further consideration of compelling , or tolerating , those of contrary Religions and Sects in the Church .

WEe still hold ( as is already said ) that Christian Magistrates cannot compell Pagans to embrace the Christian faith . Nor can the Church in a Church-way compell Pagans or Jewes comming to remaine amongst us Christians , because Pagans are to bee gathered to a Church , by the preaching of the Word , and by that way that the Apostles planted Churches , which was by the sword of the Spirit only , as Matth. 28. 19 , 20. 1 Cor. 2. 1. 2. 2 Cor. 10. 4 , 5 , 6. But the argument which the a a Tannerus , 22. ● 10 7 87. Jesuit Tannerus , & other Papists bring for it , I judge most weake , for they will not have them compelled to the faith , because , 1. faith is a voluntary and free act , 2. because it is a supernaturall worke of God , and so they are not under the stroake of the Magistrates sword ; for freewill in supernaturall acts is alike uncogible and free from all externall violence , in both those who are baptized professors within the bosome of the visible Church , and in Pagans ; and the truth is , neither the Magistrate nor the Church can censine opinions , even erronious in fundamentall points , as they are opinions ; for no societie , no humane authoritie can either judge of , or punish the internall acts of the mind , because as such they are indeed offensive to God , but not offensive or scandalous to either Church or Commonwealth , and so without the Spheare of all humane coercive power : nor is Titus , Tit. 1. To rebuke gainesiyers , v. 9. that they may be sound in the faith , v. 13. but in so farre as that faith is visible , and as it commeth out of perverse mouthes , which must be stopped , v. 11. Also punishments either civill or ecclesiasticall do no other wayes worke upon the mind and heart , but by a morall & swasory influence , for it is a palpable contradiction , that freewil can physically be compelled , & therefore here ( saith b b Phil. Gamachaeus com . in 12. q. 10. c. 3. Non hic opus gladio imperatoris , sed hamo piscatoris . Philip Gamacheus ) there is no need of an Emperours sword , but of a Fishers Angle . Let it goe then , which is taught as a truth , (a) Quicunque et l. haeretic● . et l. Manichei God . de haeretic . as Tertullian in Scorpiac . c. 2. haeetict compelli debent , non alli ci , et duritia vincenda , non suadenda ; which saith , that hereticks are otherwise to be delt with then those who never imbraced the Christian faith . in this point , by c c Covar●uvias in regula peccat . p. 2. sect. 10 Covarruvias , (e) Gregori . de Valent. e e Gamacheus loc. cit . Gamacheus , f f Tannerus in 22. q. 10. art. 8 Dub. 1. Tannerus , g g Malderus de virtut. Theolog. q. 10. art. 8. Malderus , that Princes have neither from the Law of nature , or from any divine Law , a coercive power over the faith of Pagans ; nor is h h Scotus in a. dist . 4. Scotus in this to bee heard , that the same divine law obliegeth all Princes , and the Churches , that did lie upon Israel to destroy the Cansanites .

Yet may it bee lawfull in some cases indirectly to force them , in their false worship , ( as i i Molina de just. et jure tract . 2. disp. 116. Molina saith against k k Alphons a Castro de puni●i . baeretic . l. 2. c. 14. Alphonsus a Castro ) if they kill their innocent children to their false Gods , because it is lawfull to defend the innocent ; neither is that to bee regarded , as a sufficient reason that these Infants doe not consent , that they should bee defended , because as l l Malderus loc. cit . Malderus saith it is lawfull to hinder a man , who is willing to kill himselfe , from unjust violence against his owne li● . 2. It is lawfull as saith m m Coninck . de artib . supernatur disp. 18. de infidelit . dub . 14. n 226. Aegidius Conin k , n n Lorca in 22. q. 10. art. 8. Lorca , o o Aquinas 22. q. 10. art. 8. Aquinas , and p p Cajetan . in Thomam . ibid. Cajetanus , to compell Pagans to desist from violent impeding of Pastors to preach the Gospell to some amongst them , who are willing to heare , because in that they are injurious to the salvation of those , who are appointed to bee saved , and doe manifestly hinder the Gospels progresse , which the Church is ( so farre as is in her power ) to propagate , even as her prayer is , let thy kingdome come . d d (d) Greg. de Valent. in 22. q. 10. art. 80. punct 6

2. Nor doe we thinke that Princes may compell Pagans , who are under their dominions , to the faith , without foregoing information of their conscience , or that simply they may compell them to embrace the faith ; except that here Princes have greater libertie , indirectly to force them , because they being now living ( as wee suppose ) in a visible Church , they may infect the Church , and therefore here should bee an indirect hindering of the exercise of their false religion , in so farre as it is infectious to the Church of God , ne pars sincera trahatur : for to this by a certaine proportion the power of excommunication given to the Church by Christ , may lead us , 1 Cor. 5. 6. and if wee must live by Lawes , and not by examples , q q Extravan . Pauls IIII. decret. l 7. 〈◊〉 . de de Iudae●s . Paul the fourth his suffering of the Jewes Synagogues at Rome , and their ancient feasts , which faith r r Malderus in 12 q. 10. de insidel . cap. 31. Malderus ) of themselves are not evill , is no law to us , yea but s s Gal. 5. 4. to Christians it is a falling from Christ , and his grace ; nor is t t Cap. qui sincera . et cap. de Iudaeis dist. 45. Rome who tolerateth Jewith religion , nor the u u Codt . de Iudaeis . edict of Honorius and Theodosius our warrant .

3. Nor can wee beleeve , that no other sinnes , in opinion , concerning God , his nature , attributes , worship and Church-discipline , ( except onely such as are against those points , which are called fundamentall , and the received principles of Christianitie ) should bee censurable by the Church , or punishable by the Magistrate .

1. Because Jesus Christ , Mat. 18. ordaineth that every sin against our brother , or a Church , 1 Cor. 10. 31 , 32. in which the delinquent shall continue , with obstinate refusall to heare the Church , should bee censured with excommunication .

But there bee divers opinions concerning God , his nature , attributes , worship and Church-discipline , which are not against points fundamentall , which being professed are sinnes against our brother and the Churches . Ergo , many opinions not against points fundamentall , if professed , are censurable by the Church , and punishable by the Magistrate . I prove the proposition , because Christ , Matth ▪ 18. maketh no distinction and exception of any sinne , but saith universally , v. 15. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , if thy brother trespasse against thee , &c. and wee can make no exception against an indefinit and Catholick statute , and ordinance of Jesus Christ . I prove the assumption : because there bee many scandalous points of Arminianisme , Pelagianisme , of Poperic anent Church government , traditions , the power and ●fficacie of grace , circumci●ion , forbidding of marriages , and of meates , which are doctrines of devills , comming from such , as have consciences burnt with an hot Iron , 1 Tim. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. many points of Anabaptisme , Antinomianisme , Socinianisme , and of divers other sects are not points fundamentall , because many ( no doubt ) are glorified , who lived and beleeved in Christ and died ●gnorant of either opinions , either on the one side or the other , & yet being professed , preached and maintained , especially wilfully and obstinately , do wonderfully scandalize our brethren and the Churches . Nor can I say that such as beleeve that marriage of Churchmen is unlawfull , and defend it , as many holy and learned men in Popery did , and died in that error , if otherwise they beleeve in Christ , and the like I say of Chastising the body , and abstaining from such and such meates , which yet are doctrines of devills , and offensive to our brethren , 1 Tim. 4. 1 , 2 , 3. can bee points fundamentall , so as the holding of these must bee inconsistent with saving faith . Some doe yet maintain that circumcision is lawfull , and yet beleeve all points fundamentall ; shall wee say , that such are damned ? and wee read , Gal. 5. 2. Beh●ld I Paul say unto you , that if yee bee circumcised , Christ shall profit you nothing .

2. Opinions in points not fundamentall , are either sinnes forbidden by Gods Law , or they are not sinnes ; the latter can by no reason bee asserted , because God hath in his word determined all controversies not fundamentall , as well as fundamentall , therefore it is necessary , necessitate praecepti , by vertue of a divine precept , that ●ee beleeve that to bee true , what God saith in his Word , therefore the not beleeving of it must bee a sinne and a transgression of a Divine Law . 2. If it bee no sinne , it must bee because the mind is under no Law of God , except in so far as the minde is ruled and led by the dominion of free-will ; but this is Pelagianisme and Arminianisme , and Papists and Pelagians will needs examine the inclinations , powers , and motions of the soule , which goe before the wills consent , or arise in us without the wills consent , from all subjection to a Law , that so originall sinne may bee no sinne , because ( as P●●agius said ) it is not voluntary , and concupiscence , when the will joyneth no consent to it , is no sinne ; yea so the unbeleefe and ignorance of fundamentall points , as they remaine in the mind , shall bee no sinne . 3. If this bee no sinne , we are not to pray for illumination , to see either the truth on the one side , nor on the other ; and what actions wee doe according to these opinions , in things not fundamentall , wee doe them not with any certaintie of faith , or any plerophorie , but blindly , or doubtingly , and so sinfully , which is expresly condemned , Rom. 14. 13. and is expressely against that full assurance of faith , that wee are to have in those very actions , which in their owne nature are indifferent , as is evident , Rom. 14. 14. I know and am perswaded by the Lord Jesus , that there is nothing uncleane of it selfe , ● . 5. Let every one bee fully perswaded in his owne mind . 4. If they be not sinnes , then are none to bee rebuked for these opinions , no more then they are to bee excommunicated for them , and though any erre in points not fundamentall , they are not to bee rebuked , yea nor to bee convinced of them by the light of the word . ( 2. ) If they bee sinnes , then when they are publickly prosested , they must scandalize our brother , but there bee no sinnes which scandalize our brother , but they are susceptible and in capacitie to bee committed with obstinacie ; Every sinne sub ratione scandali , is the subject of Church-censure ; Yea I●m . 16. 17. Every one is to bee avoyded , who causeth divisions , and 〈◊〉 es contrary to the doctrine which the Church hath learned of the Apostles , and every one who walketh disorderly , 2 Thess. 3. 11. and 〈◊〉 not the commandement of the Apostles , is to bee excommunicated , 〈◊〉 hee bee ashamed , v. 14. but opinions contrary to the Apostles doctrine in non-fundamentalls , are not fundamentalls , and if they bee professed , cause divisions and offences contrary to the Apostolik doctrine , for many non-fundamentalls are the Apostles doctrine .

3. What ever tendeth to the subversion of fundamentalls , tende●●●● 〈…〉 to the subversion of faith , and so doth much truly scandaliz●an● bring on damnation , that Christ hath ordained to be removed out of the Church by Church-censures : but erroneous opinions , in points not fundamentall , and in superstructures , being professed and instilled in the eares and simple mindes of others , tend to the subversion of fundamentalls , as having connexion , by just consequent , with fundamentalls , and doe scandalize and bring on doubtings about the foundation , and so bring damnation . Ergo , erroneous opinions , in points not fundamentall , must be removed out of the Church by Church-censures . The proposition is cleare , he that falleth in a publicke scandalous sinne is to be delivered to Satan , both for his owne sake , that he be not damned himselfe , but that 1 Cor. 5. 5. to the destruction of the flesh , the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord ; and so also for others , because a little Leaven leaveneth the whole lump , v. 6. The assumption is proved by dayly experience , for corruption in Discipline and Government in the Church of Rome , brought on corruption in Doctrine , and the same did we find in the Churches of Scotland and England .

4. Fundamentalls are no other thing , then that which the Apostle calleth , Heb. 6. 12. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , the first principles of the oracles of God , and ch. 6. 1. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , the Doctrine of the Principles of Christ , which are laid as foundations , as ib. 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , not laying the foundation againe , &c. Then non-fundamentalls must be such superstructures as are not the first Principles of the Oracles of God , and are not the Doctrine of the Principles of Christ . But the Apostle will not have us to fluctuate and doubt as Skeptickes , in a Py●rhonian Vacillation and Uncertainty , in these , which he calleth the superstructures . 1. As is evident by his words : 11 Of whom we have many things to say , and hard to be uttered , but you are dull of hearing . 12. For when , for the time , yee ought to be teachers , yee have need that one teach you againe , which be the first Principles of the Oracles of God , and are become such as have neede of milke , and not of strong food . 13. For every one that useth milke is unskilfull in the word of righteousnesse : for he is a babe . 14. But strong meate belongeth to them that are of full age , even those who by reason of use , have their senses exercised to discerne both good and evill . Chap. 6. 1. Therefore leaving the doctrine of the beginning of Christ , let us goe on unto perfection , not laying againe the foundation of repentance from dead workes , &c. Whence it is more then evidently apparent to any intelligent mind .

1. That when he saith , they ought to be teachers of others , he cannot be thought to meane that they should teach fundamentalls onely to others , because he would have them to be capable of the food of such as are stronger , and have their senses exercised to discerne good and ill , and will have them carried on to perction : now fundamentalls are expressely the foode of babes which b●● neede of milke , c. 6. v. 12. and not the foode of the stronger ; if then they ought to teach superstructures , and non-fundamentalls to others , they cannot teach and exhort privately , ( for of such he speaketh ) these things whereof they have no certainty of faith , and which they beleeve with a reserve , as ready to reject them to morrow , upon second thoughts , for what we teach to others , those ( as I conceive ) we are oblieged to speake , because we beleeve . Psal. 116. 10. 2 Cor. 4. 13. and those we are to perswade , because we know ( not with a reserve , but with certainty of faith ) the terror of the Lord , 2 Cor. 5. 11. If it be said , teachers now are not oblieged to know all that they teach now to be divine truths , with such a certainty of faith , as Prophets and Apostles , who were ledde by an infallible Spirit : for our private exhorting , our publick Sermons come not from a Spirit , as infallible as that Spirit which spake and wrote canonick Scripture , for we may erre in exhorting , in Preaching , in writing , but the pen-men of canonick Scripture were infallible . I answer , the pen-men of Scripture when they did speak and write Scripture , were infallible . & de jure , & de facto , they could neither erre actually , and by Gods word they were oblieged not to erre , and in that they were freer from error , then we are , who now succeed them to preach and write ; but what God hath revealed in his word , whether they be fundamentalls or superstructures , doth obliege us to belief and certainty of faith , no lesse then it obliegeth the Pen-men of Scripture ; and our certainty of saving faith , is as infallible as the faith of the Prophets and Apostles , except with Papists we say no man can be assured that he is in the state of grace . If therefore we be oblieged to beleeve all revealed superstructures , though not fundamentall , as the Prophets and Apostles were , we sinne scandalously ( when obstinacie is added to ignorance ) if we beleeve them with such a reserve as is contrary to faith , and because there is no ignorance of those who teach others , but it is capable of ob●tinacie , and consequently it is capable of Church censure , Matth. 18. 17. I grant the weake and unlearned , though ignorant of their Christian liberty , in that interim , and case when many things are indifferent , as the case was , Rom. 14. though they be instructed by Paul sufficiently , that nothing is uncleane , and that they erre in that , out of an erring consciences light , or rather darkenesse , they abstain from such and such meates as Gods law hath now made lawfull to both Jew and Gentile , yet are they not to be censured , nor troubled with thorny disputations , but if these weake ones , 1. persist in their error , and 2. teach it to others and mislead them , they knowing that they beleeve these errors with a reserve , are ( as I conceive ) false teachers , and censurable by the Church and State , and not weake , but obstinate .

2. We are not to be dull of hearing , but are to be fully instructed , und certainly perswaded so of superstructures , which are not the first principles of the Oracles of God , as that we are to teach others . Ergo , a Pyrrbonian fluctuation in these , is damnable . How then can it be a principle , next to Gods word , most to bee followed , not to make our present judgement and practise , in matters not fundamentall , a binding Law to us for the future ? 2. The Apostle ought not to rebuke them for being dull of hearing of those things , whereof either sides may be beleeved , in a necessary case of syncretisme and pacification , without any hazard of punishment or Church-censures ; for what is a necessary principle , and to be holden and enacted , as the most sacred Law of all others , next unto the Word of God , the matter of that principle being unknowne , and neither sides understood , received , or beleeved , cannot put on any the rebuke of dull hearing : For example , if the point of Presbyteriall government of the Church , or of independencie of single congregations , be a point not to be received , with such certainty of faith and assurance , but we are to reject either , or both , when we shall receive new light , that they are false and contrary to the rule of holy Scripture ; and againe , if we are to reject the opinion contradicent to these former points of Presbyteriall government and independent congregations , for there is by this opinion , the same reason of the contradicent , as of the formerly affirmed opinions ; I see not how I may not be dull of hearing , yea how I may not simply be ignorant of both and not sinne against God . 3. Those superstructures which are not fundamentall , are the strong persons food , as the knowledge of principles fundamentall is the food of babes , vers. 12 , 13. Then I must be perswaded of the truth of them , else they cannot feed my soule with knowledge , because knowledge of Pyrrhonian fluctuation , which is conjecturall , and may be no lesse false then true , and which I must so beleeve for truth , as possible the tyde of a contrary light may carry me to beleeve the just contrary as truth , can never be the strong food of such as are skilled in the word of righteousnesse . 4. The knowledge of these superstructures or non-fundamentals belongeth to those who are of full age , and have their senses exercised to discerne both good and ill , vers. 14. and which are carried on to perfection , c. 6. v. 1. having now left the fundamentals , as food to babes and unskilled , c. 5. v. 12. But I heartily crave to learn , what perfection doewe arive unto ? and what encrease of fuller age , what experience of more spirituall knowledge , perfecting the spirituall senses , doe I attaine , to know certaine truths , which to me may be no lesse rotten conclusions , and meere forgeries of mens braines , then divine truths ? Hence if this Arminian liberty of prophecying , and this perpetuall fluctuation of men alwayes learning , and never comming to the knowledge of the truth ; be contrary to growing in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ , 2 Pet. 3. 18. and contrary to that which is called , 1 Cor. 1. 5. all knowledge , and to the abundance of knowledge , which in the last dayes , is to fill the earth , as the sea is filled with waters ; so that when I have once over-sailed that point of the coast of the knowledge of fundamentall articles , I am now in a Sea of foure contrary winds , and foure contrary tydes at once , and I know nothing for truth , but its contradicent may be , yea , and to me is as true , ( I say ) if this fluctuation of knowledge be contrary to growing in knowledge , it must be rejected as a Chimera , and the dreame of mens heads .

5. Let us take one point not fundamentall , to wit this , ( Every congregation hath absolute power of Church government within it selfe , without subjection to Classes , Presbyteries , and Synods ) You are so perswaded of the truth of this , that your present judgement and practice is no binding Law to you , for the morrow ; but you leave roome in your judgement to beleeve , to morrow , the contradicent , when new light shall appeare . Well then to morrow , this non-fundamentall , and this contradicent is now to you true , ( No congregation hath absolute power of Church-government within it selfe , but hath its power in dependance upon , and with subjection unto Classes , Presbyteries , and Synods . ) Well , to morrow is come , and this you beleeve now to be Gods truth , yet so , as your present judgement , and practice is no binding Law to you , for the second morrow , but you leave roome for light , which shall appeare the second morrow ; well , in the second morrow , new light appeareth and convinceth you , that the contradicent is true , and you recurre in a circle , to beleeve your first proposition againe is true , to wit , the contradicent of your second dayes proposition , and now to you this is true , as it was once , ( Every congregation hath absolute power of Church-government within it selfe , without subjection to classes , Presbyteries , and Synods : ) Now , on the third morrow , a new light appearing , you are to beleeve the contradicent ; and because all circular motions are in credit to be deemed eternall , and your mind is alwayes obliged to stoop and fall downe before new light , and the conscience is to render her selfe captive to every emergent truth : what can you here say but there is no end of fluctuations and doubtings ? But you say , Gods spirit , the revealer of all truth , doth not fluctuate , though I change , God Jebovah changeth not , he can reveale no contradictory truths , for one of them must be a lie , and he is the Lord who cannot lie .

Answ. Then I say , these non-fundamentals are in themselves and intrinsecally certaine , and if God reveale them in his Word , he must reveale them under the notion of things certaine , and we are to beleeve them as certaine truths , having intrinsecall necessity in themselves from the authority of God the revealer , therefore I am not to beleeve them with a fluctuation of mind to casheere the truth of them , to morrow , and the next , and the third morrow .

But you say , I doe beleeve non-fundamentals as they are revealed , now they are not revealed to me in the word , in that measure and degree of clearnesse and evidence of light , that fundamentall points of faith are revealed , therefore I may lawfully beleeve these non-fundamentals , which are lesse evidently revealed , with a reserve , that , upon the supposall , I see I had an error of judgement in taking them to be truths , whereas now I see them to be untruths , I doe renounce them ; but because fundamentals are clearely revealed , I am to beleeve them , without any reserve at all .

Answ. The degrees of revelation and proposals of truths to our minds , lesse or more , evident , or lesse evident , so they be revealed by God , in a sufficient measure of evidence , they free us from obligation of faith , in tanto , non in toto , as is cleare , John 15. 22. If I had not come to them , they should not have had sinne , the sin of unbeliefe , and in such a measure ; yet if God reveale these non-fundamentals , though not so perspicuously as he revealeth fundamentals , we are obliged to know them and beleeve them with certainty of faith , and upon this formall reason , because Jehovah speaketh them in his word , no lesse then we are obliged to know and beleeve fundamentals : for our dulnesse and blindnes of mind doth not licence us to beleeve what God revealeth to us in his Word with an 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and a fluctuation of mind , no more then the naturall man is licenced to beleeve the fundamentals of the Gospel with doubting , because they come in under the capacity of his understanding , as foolishnesse , 1 Cor. 2. 14. But , say you , upon supposall that our darkened hearts doe not see these non-fundamentals clearely , we are obliged to take their meaning and sense , with a reserve , and so to receive and entertaine the truths of these non-fundamentals , as we leave roome , upon supposall of our misapprehensions , to retract our judgement , and to beleeve the contrary of what we once beleeved , and this bindereth not but that we are simply and absolutely obliged to beleeve the non-fundamentalls .

Answ , If we be simply and absolutely obliged to beleeve non-fundamentals , though they be not so clearely revealed to us as the fundamentals , as no doubt we are , then doe we contrary to the morall obligation of a divine precept , and so sinne in beleeving , with a doubting and hesitation , of that which God hath revealed in his word : and when we beleeve Gods truth with a reserve to retract our judgement , when a cleare light shall make naked to us our error , that revealed error , if revealed to be an error , by the Lord speaking in his word , doth clearely evince that God never revealed , nor meant to reveale in his Word , the former truth that was beleeved with a reserve , for God cannot reveale things contradictory , and out of the mouth of the Lord commeth no untruth : therefore God in these non-fundamentals revealeth to us but one thing to be beleeved , and that absolutely without all reserves , for God can no more shine with a new light , to declare the contradicent of what he hath once revealed as truth , then he candeny himselfe , or lie ; which to assert were high blasphemy : and if the first truth of the non-fundamentall doe onely appeare truth to our understanding , and be no such thing , but in it selfe an untruth , then doth the God of truth reveale no such thing . 2. Upon supposall that we see not the truth of these non-fundamentals clearly , we are neither to beleeve with a reserve , nor to beleeve them absolutely , nor yet are we to suspend our beliefe , because I conceive all the three to be sinfull , and we are never obliged to sinne , but we are obliged to know and beleeve simply without all reserve , having laid away our darke and confused conscience , and are to know clearely and beleeve firmely that God speaketh this , not this in his Word ; nor , because I doe fluctuate about the truth of these non-fundamentals , am I obliged to follow in non-fundamentals the endictment of a fluctuating conscience , seeing holding the plenitude and plenary perfection of Gods Word , the Lord hath no lesse manifested his will , in setting downe superstructures and non-fundamentals , in his Word , then he hath revealed his mind to us in fundamentals .

But our Brethren prove that we may tolerate one another in diverse and contrary opinions about non-fundamentals , from Phil. 3. 15. Let us therefore , as many as be perfect , be thus minded : and if in any thing yee be otherwise minded , God shall reveale this unto you . 16. Neverthelesse , whereunto we have already attained , let us walke by the same rule , let us mind the same thing . Now there is nothing more opposite to this rule , then the practises of some , who will exclude and allow communion in nothing , where there is difference in anything . The labours of Davenant and others in this needfull case of syncretisme and pacification in those times are very seasonable .

I answer , I distinguish three things that may be judged the object of syncretisme or mutuall toleration . 1. Fundamentalia , fundamentall points . 2. Supra & circa fundamentalia , things that are builded on the foundation or superstructures , or things about the foundation , as many positive and historicall things that cannot result by good consequence off , or from the foundation , as that there were eight soules in Noahs Arke , and some rituals of Gods institution in the Sacrament of the Supper and Baptisme , &c. 3. Praeter fundamentalia , things meerely physicall , not morall , having no influence in Gods worship at all ; as such a day for meeting of an Assembly of the Church , Wednesday rather then Thursday ; a cloake when you pray in private , rather then a gowne ; these have , or contribute of themselves no morall influence to the action , as in what corner of your Chamber you pray in private , these are meerely indifferent , and tolerance in these I would commend . It is true , there is a strict connexion often betwixt the physicall and the morall circumstances , so as the physicall circumstance doth put on , by some necessity , a morall habitude and respect , and then the physicall circumstance becommeth morall , as in what corner of your Chamber you pray , it is meerely physicall and indifferent , but if that corner that you pray in , cast you obvious to the eyes of those who are walking in the streets , that they may see and heare your private prayers , then the place putteth on the morall respect of a savour of some Pharisaicall ostentation , that you pray to be seene of men ; and so the circumstance now is morall , and is to be regulated by the Word , whereas the circumstance that is meerely physicall is not , as it is such , in any capacity to receive scripturall regulation , nothing is required but a physicall convenience for the action . Now for fundamentall superstructures , for things about the foundation , in so farre as they have warrant in the Word , to me they oblige to faith and practises , in so farre as the Lord intimateth to us in his Word , either expressely , or by good consequence , that they are lawfull . Now I may adde to these , that there be some things adjacent , circumvenient , circumstantiall to these fundamentals , superstructions , and others that I named , wherein mutuall tolerance is commendable ; Nor doe we thinke any Church Reformation so perfect as that reformers have not left it in some capacity more or lesse of receiving increase and latitude of Reformation ; but truely I doe not see the consequence , that therefore in all points not fundamentall the conscience must be of that compliable latitude of Kid-leather to take in , and let out , so as none of these superstructures or non-fundamentals are to be beleeved but with a reserve , that you take them to day as Gods truths , and are in capacity to beleeve their contradicents to be Gods truth to morrow .

And for the place , Phil. 3. 14. 15. The sense given by Zanchius pleaseth me . We that are reputed perfect , let us all think and mind this truth that I write , to contend for the price of the high-calling of God ; and if any mind any other thing contrary to , or diverse from my doctrine , God in his owne time shall reveale it to him . Zanchius saith , Deus id quoque revelabit suo tempore , nempe an falsum Zanch. com . in Phil. 3. sit vel verum . God shall reveale it to him in his owne time , whether it be true or false : to which part I doe not subscribe ; that God shall reveale to any other minded then Paul , whether his doctrine be true or false , for that may inferre a possibility that Paul taught in this point , or in the matter of ceremonies , something false : but the meaning is , God shall make him know by the revelation of truth , that what I have taught is true ; and he addeth as Zanchius , Estius , Cornelius à Lapide , S●lmeron , yea our owne Calvine , Marlorat , and others , upon this condition , that they walke with us in peace and concord , according to the 〈◊〉 the Gospel : and that these words are a condition , I beleeve , because Christ saith , John 7. 17. If any man will doe his will , he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God , or whether I speake of my selfe . But I see nothing here that reacheth the conclusion that we deny ; it will beare this indeed , if any man be otherwise minded , and thinke that Paul hath not delivered sound doctrine , either concerning our pressing forward toward the prise of the high calling of God in Jesus Christ , or concerning ceremonies ; that is , if any man beleeve untruths contrary to Pauls doctrine , let him beleeve these untruths , leaving roome to Gods light , to bow downe under truths feet , when God shall reveale that Pauls doctrine is true , and that his thoughts diverse from Pauls doctrine was misapprehensions and errours ; but there is nothing here , that if any beleeve true non-fundamentals , he is to beleeve them with a reserve , that if God , with a new light , shall appear , to discover these truths to be untruths , he shall change his mind . Now the supposition is vaine , and as unpossible , as to say , God can contradict and belie his owne truth , nor is there any word of toleration of Sects in the text . Yea , but ( say they ) Paul professeth to walke according to the rule to which they 〈◊〉 all attained , with those who are contrary minded . Ergo , we are to tolerate and to keepe peaceable communion with those who are contrary minded in opinions , and disagree from us .

Answ. Marke , I pray you , that Paul doth not say he will walke with them , and keepe communion with them simply ; but onely , 1. while God shall reveale their error , and by his light make them see that Pauls doctrine is true . 2. So in other things , they be of one minde with Paul , as perfect men should be : and so I thinke Paul doth indeed condemne separation and breach of love for diversity of opinions in some things ; and we doubt not , but if the servant of the Lord should with gentlenesse instruct malicious opposers of the truth , and wait on them to see , if God , peradventure , will give them repentance , to the acknowledgment of the truth , 2 Tim. 2. 24 , 25. farre rather should Paul walke with those that are perfect according to the same rule , though they be of another mind ; but it followeth not that those who are of another mind from Paul , should , 1 obstinately continue in that mind , after that God hath by writings and dispute convinced them of their error . 2. It followeth not that their ob●tinate continuance in their error should alwayes be tolerated , and never censured , especially if it be such an error as causeth divisions and offences , Rom. 16. 17. for then such should be avoided , saith Paul , in that same place . 3. It followeth not that we are to beleeve no superstructures or non-fundamentals , but with a reserve : it is observable that Paul speaketh here of those who beleeve errors and doctrines contrary to Pauls doctrine ; Now consider then the force of the argument , those who beleeve errors contrary to Pauls doctrine , have no certainty of faith , that what they beleeve is true , and therefore must beleeve with a reserve , leaving roome to new light ; therefore those who beleeve any true superstructures and any non-fundamentals , have also no certainty of faith , but must beleeve with a reserve , that when light shall appeare , they shall beleeve the contradicent of what they now beleeve , there is no force in this connexion . It is just like the question betwixt us and the Papists , whether a man can be certaine with any divine and infallible certainty that he is in the state of grace and salvation . Papists say hypocrites beleeve that they are in the state of grace , and yet they have no certainty thereof , Ergo , ( say they ) the regenerate beleeving that they are in the state of grace , can have no certainty . This is a very ill consequence , for a sleeping man is not certaine whether he be dreaming or waking . Ergo , a waking man knoweth not whether he be waking , or not . So a distracted man hath no certainty that he is as wise as seven men who can render a reason ; therefore a man sober in his wits knoweth not that he is in his sober wits : these be poore and loose consequences . It is true , when we beleeve some alterable circumstances of some things rather about , then in doctrine and discipline , which are disputable , and to us both sides have great probability , we have not certainty of faith , and possible here in our opinions learned and holy men ; yea and whole Churches may looke beside their booke , and be deceived ; and these we take not to be the subject of a sworne confession of faith , and here we grant a [ non liquet ] on both sides , and doe allow some graine weights of reserve to persons and Churches , to retract in those things : but hence it is badly concluded that we beleeve these non-fundamentals of discipline , for which we have certainty of evidence from Gods Word , with a reserve , and with a loosnesse of assent and credulity to beleeve the contrary to morrow ; for so the same argument should militate against the certainty of faith in some fundamentals : for a person , yea any particular Church may erre in denying the resurrection of the dead , as some did in the Church of Corinth ; and Christs Disciples , though true beleevers , doubted of his rising from the dead , John 20. 9. Peter and the disciples doubted of Christ dying for the losed world , Mat. 16. 21 , 22. Luke 24. 25 , 26. and because any true beleever may fall in that temptation and weaknesse , as to deny all the articles of faith , taken divisively , for they may deny this or this article fundamentall , ( though I doe not thinke a regenerated person can deny the whole systeme and body of fundamentals collectively ) it shall follow by this argument that regenerated persons and particular Churches are to beleeve some fundamentals with a reserve , and keeping roome for light to beleeve the contrary , and so if this argument be good , wee have no certainty of faith in beleeving any one fundamentall article its alone . Nor can Nathan or Samuel have certainty of faith in beleeving their owne prophecies flowing from the immediate inspiration of the Spirit ; but they are to beleeve them with a capacity to receive the faith of the contradicent prophecies , because Nathan had no certainty of faith in commanding David to build the Temple ; and Samuel had as little certainty in pronouncing Eliah to be the Lords annoynted .

Another doubt against this is , That if any , out of weaknesse and meere tendernesse of conscience , deny some superstructures , which are indeed scripturall truths , they are not to be counted hereticks , because out of weaknesse , not out of obstinacy they erre , nor to be censured with excommunication or censures of Church or Magistrate , and therefore in these we are to beleeve truths , with a reserve , and to tolerate the contrary minded , if they agree with us in fundamentals .

Answ. That this may be answered , 1. The object of these opinions would be distinguished . 2. The persons , weak or strong . 3. The manner of refusing instruction , or of admitting light , of meere weaknesse , or of obstinacy . For the first , if the matter be faultlesse or light , as eating meats or not eating meats , in time when they are meerely indifferent , and the person weake and scarce capable of disputation , he is to be tolerated , and not received into knotty and thorny disputations , about things indifferent : for so Paul Rom. 14. is to be understood , when he will not have the weake taken in 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : so Michael strove with the Angel disputing , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 : if the matter concerne an institution of Christ , and our necessary practise in a Church , and the party be not weake . It is a question what maketh obstinacy , and what tendernesse and weaknesse , a a Turrecrema . qui paratus est tenere contrarium , li. 4 sum . de eccle. p. 2. c. 17. Turrecremata saith , he who is ready to yeeld to light , is not obstinate , b b Scotus ignorantia crassa , 4 d. 22. ar. 3. Scotus , grosse ignorance , c c Canus l. 12. de loc. c. 12. affectata ignoran . facit pertinacem . Canus saith , affected ignorance maketh obstinacie , d d Malderus crassa ignorantia relinquit ho●ninem paratum obedire ecclesia idecque non exclude●et objectum formale fidei . de virtut. Theol. in 22. de haeres . q. 11. ad 2. men 1. 4. Malderus saith that grosse ignorance may leave a man ready to yeeld to the information of the Church , e e A Cost●o de punitio hare● . li. 1. c. 9. Alphonsus a Castro saith better , he is obstinate who 1. defendeth an opinion against the Scripture , or , saith he , ( which is his error ) against the definition of a generall Councell , or of the Pope . 2. Who being admonished doth not amend . 3. Who seeketh not resolution from the learned , with a purpose to render himselfe truths captive . 4. Who sweareth that he shall adhere to the end , to that opinion . By the light and knowledge of the holder of the opinion , it may be collected whether he seeketh truth , and is ready to yeeld himselfe and his understanding thereunto : and except the point be fundamentall , it can hardly be judged heresie : if the point may be holden without any scandall , or breach of peace , much tolerance is required where error seemeth to be a temptation to holy men , but finall tolerance , and unlimitted , where the party is of great knowledge , and hath sway in the minds of many , to prevaile to draw others after him , is harder .

Object . But hee that serveth God in these is acceptable to God , Rom. 14. 18. and if a man judge some doctrine to bee error , though it bee no error , yet to him that so judgeth it is error ; if hee suffer death for that hee judgeth truth , hee suffereth for righteousnesse , being truth in his judgement , and therefore libertie of conscience is to bee given to all sects ; Christ would not forbid a man that preached in his name , to preach , though hee did not follow him , Mark . 9. 38. Luk. 9. 50. The best way to hinder Sects is to re●ute them by the Scriptures , and not to set decrees of Synods to others , because that is done already by Christ and his Apostles ; for Gods judgement shall still bee on you , while you establish Christs Jubilee , and freedome of consciences , Luke 4. 18.

Answ. Let none thinke that these bee the words of our brethren , but of a certaine Anabaptist , and of Arminians and Socinians who object the same ; for Paul , Rom. 14. 18. hee that serveth God , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , is to bee understood ( as the context teacheth us ) that is , that they relate the words going before , v. 17. hee who serveth God in righteousnesse , in peace , in joy of the holy Ghost , the meaning is not that hee is acceptable who serveth God in following the inditement of his light and conscience , because it is his conscience , for then some should please God in sinning against God . But it is a point worthy our consideration , what tie and obligation an erroneous conscience layeth on men : hence with correction these considerations .

1. The true cause why an erring conscience obliegeth to abstinence from the fact in the case of error and misrepresentation of conscience , is , 1. Because conscience is the nearest divine principle of our morall actions , and standeth in the roome of God , and therefore hee who doth any thing against the very erroneous ditement of conscience , is hence convinced to have a perverse will to sinne against the majestie of God , because hee who should beleeve usury to bee theft , ( though we should suppose with Calvin and other great Divines usurie to bee in some cases lawfull ) should yet take usury , hath a the●teous will in that , and doth steale . 2. Because the oblieging Law of God is not applyed to our actions at all , but by the interveening actuall use of our conscience ; see f f Pirerius com in Rom. 14 v. 14 disp. 2. Pirerius .

2. Consideration In the question , whether an erroneous conscience doth obliege a man , or no. It is taken for a thing out of controversie , yea that this is no question at all , Whether or no doth an erroneous conscience so bind , that we can doe nothing against the standing enditement of an erring conscience : for the Scripture is cleare in this , Rom. 14. 14. I know and am perswaded by the Lord Jesus , that there is nothing ( of meat-kind now under the Gospel ) uncleane ( or unlawfull to eat ) of it selfe , but to him that esteemeth any thing to bee uncleane , ( in the light of his il-informed and erroneous conscience ) to him ( so thinking ) it is uncleane , that is , to this man now under the actuall darknesse and errour of an ill-informed conscience it is not lawfull to eat , but hee must abstaine from eating , not simply from eating , but from eating , ●●li modo : So all who have commented on the place , Calvin , Beza , Par●us , Rollocus , &c. and of the Fathers , all who either commented on , or handled the text occasionally , as Theodoret , Chrysostome , Basilius , Augustine , Cyprian , Ambrose , Origen , Anselm , all the Popish writers , Lyra , Hugo Cardinalis , Aquinas , Toletus , Pirerius , Estius , Cornelius a Lapide , &c. yea g g Adrianus quolib . 2. punct. 3 ad . 5. Adrianus , h h Vasquez in 22. q. 19. ar. 5 , 6. disp. 59. c. 2. Vasquez , i i Pezantius ib. disp . 2. Pezantius , say it is manifestly against the Scripture , and hereticall to say , it is no sinne to doe contrary to the commandement or prohibition of an erring conscience .

3. Hence the conscience carrieth to the agent from God a twofold obligation most considerable here ; 1. one from the action it selfe to be done , or not done ; and this commeth wholly from the oblieging Law of God , and not from the conscience : there is another obligation that consisteth not in the action , and commeth not from the action , but in the manner of doing , and this obligation commeth from conscience it selfe , and that is that we doe nothing , in such a manner , that is against the light or inditement of our conscience : for this is an imbred Rose & Flower of divinifie and majestie that groweth kindly out of conscience according to that high place of some sort of royaltie , that it hath to bee something of God , a little breast-God , a little Deputie and Judge not to bee contemned ; so when a proconsull bringeth to mee a forged commandement from my Soveraigne and Prince , I may receive it with non-obedience , if I know it to bee a forgery , but I am not to despise and put any note of disgrace upon the proconsull , be cause hee is in respect of his office the deputie of my Soveraigne , though in this particular mandat , hee doth prevaricate , and not represent the soveraigne power and Prince , whose deputie otherwayes he is , by vertue of his office ; so is this the deputed royaltie of conscience , that it standing to me , bic & nunc , as representing a message from God , though it represent it falsely , that I can doe nothing in the contrary , that deputry and message standing actually in vigor .

4. I desire that these two obligations of conscience bee carefully kept in mind ; hence I say , that conscience carrying the former obligation of Gods Law , from which formally the action hath its lawfulnesse , and in an eccentrick and irregular discrepance from which , it hath its unlawfulnesse , it doth not obliege mee to the action , because it is conscience simply ; for when it offereth an action to mee as lawfull , which in very deed , and a parte rei , in it selfe is unlawfull , I am not oblieged to that unlawfull action : for as God hath given to no ruler made of clay , any royall power to bee a tyrant and to destroy , where as his office is as a father to save and governe ; so hath not God given to conscience any power to obliege me to sinnes ; yea and conscience remaineth conscience , when it representeth forged and illegall mandates under the notion of things good , even when men love to goe to hell by reason , yet in that false representation conscience is not Gods deputie ; therefore though if a man judge some doctrines to bee errors , though they bee in themselves truths , to him that so judgeth they are errors , yet are these truths not to bee rejected simpliciter and absolutely , by him who judgeth so , ony they are to be rejected 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , in some respect as they come in under the notion and garments of errors ; & also , if any suffer death for an error which in conscience he conceiveth to be truth , that error is to him truth . Distinguo : it is to him truth , that is ; he conceiveth and dreameth that it is truth ; that is most true : but to him it is truth , that is , it ought to bee beleeved by him as truth , and practised as lawfull ; that is most false : for it ought to bee rejected both in point of beleefe , and in point of practise , and the erroneous opinion thereof should bee rejected , and therefore if hee receive it as truth , and professe it , and die for it , hee dieth not for righteousnesse sake , but hee dieth for errour , and for the dreames of his owne head , and so is not blessed as one who dveth for righteousnesse ; for this vaine reason saith , 1. that it is no sinne for the mind to beleeve a lie , to bee a divine truth : and it is righteousnesse upon the beleefe , whereby I beleeve a lie to bee a truth , to suffer for a lie under the notion of a truth . Both these are false : the former is false , for the mind is under Gods oblieging Law to conceive aright of all divine truths , as all the faculties of the soule are under a Law .

2. The latter is false , for to beleeve lies as divine truths , and suffer for them , because the erring conscience saith they are divine truths , is not righteousnesse , but sinfull credulity , and blind zeale . 1. Because wee are not to beleeve what our conscience dictateth as truth , under this formall reduplication , because our conscience thus doth dictate , and saith it is truth , but because Gods spirit saith to our conscience , it is a divine truth ; not because our owne spirit and our owne dreaming and mis●ed conscience saith so . This is the controversie betwixt us and Papists , anent the authoritie of Gods Word , but with a little change , for our conscience or the testimony of our conscience as such , is no more the formall object of our faith , and the formall medium and reason why with a divine faith I beleeve a divine truth to bee a divine truth , then the testimony of the Church or the Pope is the formall reason of my faith ; so An ●baptists make a Pope and an infallible spirit of their owne conscience : but the whole formall obligation tying mee to receive this , and this point as a divine truth , is because God hath revealed it in his Word ; the consciences representing of it is but a necessary condition of my beleeving , but not the formall object of my beleeving : the conscience is the cause why I beleeve it , tali modo , after a rationall way , and by the evidence of practicall reason , but it is not the formall cause why I beleeve it simpliciter ; for Papists , Arrians , Macedonians , and the most detestable Hereticks have consciences representing to them fundamentall truthes , as lies and untruths , and have died for these lies , did they suffer for righteousnesse for that ? and yet to their judgement that which they suffered for was truth . All the legall obligation is here from Gods Law , not from our conscience . Arminians , Socinians , Anabaptists imagine that our conscience is the nearest rule of our actions , which is most false ; our present judgement is never a binding Law to us for the time to come , no not when we beleeve fundamentalls ; Gods Word , because it is Gods Word , is a binding Law onely ; our judgement is regula regulata , and not regula regulans , to be led , and not a leading or binding Law to us ; for conscience , because conscience , is no more a Pope to us , then the dictates of the Bishop of Rome speaking out of his chaire , can captivate the conscience of any man ; and Malderus g g Malderus 〈◊〉 . T●co● . q. 19 art. 5 9. disp. 84. holdeth that our opinion is a Law , according to h h Ambros. l. de paradis . c. 8. Ambrose , and hee correcteth himselfe , and saith our opinion or conscience ( non tam legem esse , quam legis quaddam praeconium , promulgationem , insinuationem ) is not so much the Law of God , as the promulgation of Gods Law : but hee addeth , ( which maketh the businesse as bad ) and saith , promulgatio legis recte dicitur obligare ; but the truth is , the promulgation of the Law doth not obliege , for who can say that the Law hath an oblieging power from the Herald his act of proclaiming , reading or declaring the Law ? the promulgation of the Law is an approximation of it to the understanding of the people , but the Law of man hath its oblieging power from the honesty of the matter of the Law , and it hath its obligation to punishment not from the Herauld , but from the authoritie of the Law-giver . And our conscience doth onely promulgate Gods oblie●ing Law , but it layeth not on us the oblieging power , except wee speake of an oblieging power in the manner of receiving and beleeving the Law of God , that is , ( as I said ) that wee receive not as a truth what God proposeth as an untruth , or that wee receive not as a lie , what God proposeth as spoken by himselfe , for that is to receive truths against the light of our conscience . And when Ambrose calleth our opinion an obliging Law , he speaketh ( as Augustine often doth ) of the Law of nature , which is that habituall opinion naturall that wee have of right and wrong , or of the ●aw written in our heart . I would not here distinguish betwixt ( recta ratio ) right reason , and ( vera ratio ) true reason , for some make right reason the nearest rule of our actions , so as the action is lawfull , it our conscience perswade to it , though the action swarve and decline from Gods Law , For to mee reason is never right which is not true and agreeable to Gods Law . It is objected , if one shall beleeve it is lawfull to kill a protestant King , because it is good service in God , to kill a heretick ; ( as there bee good store of consciences of this mettall amongst the nation of Jesui●es ) if hee kill him not bee sinneth against God , because be sinneth against the light of his conscience by the sinfull omitting of good service to God , and if bee kill him 〈◊〉 sinneth also in committing murther , both against the sixt Commandement , and also against the fist , which commandeth to honour Kings ▪ out of which it must follow that either an erring conscience , because it is conscience , obliegeth us to doe that , which because wee doe it , in obedience to an erring consceence , now leaveth off to bee sinne to the actor under this condition of conscience ; or then that there may bee such a perplexitie wherein a man by way of contradiction , whether hee doe such ●n all , or doe it not , is necessitated by Gods providence to sinne , which absurdity shall make God the author of sinne .

Answ. There is no necessitie by way of contradiction , that a man thus perplexed must sinne , whether hee doe or not doe such anaction : for I give easily a third case different from both , for such a perplexed Jesuite is neither oblieged to kill the Prince , nor yet to abstaine from killing in such a perplexed manner ; but hee is oblieged not to kill the Lords annointed , tali modo : hee is oblieged to abstinence , but not to abstinence tali modo , such a way , for hee is oblieged to lay aside his erroneous and hereticall conscience , and so to abstaine from killing with a well informed conscience : for no man is brought under a lawfull perplexitie to sinne , but men may bring themselves under sinfull perplexities of conscience , which is not to bee fathered upon the holy Lord , who hateth sinne with a perfect hatred .

I answer to the places , Mark . 9. 30. and Luk. 9. they be manifestly corrupted , for the man who cast out devills in Christs name , and followed not Christ , was not a man who followed the light of an erroneous conscience , who thought it service to God to cast out devills in Christs name , and not to follow Christ ; for hee was not oblieged to follow Christ as the Disciples followed him , except he had had the same command to follow Christ that the Apostles had , which wee read not of ; nay it is most like if it had beene the error of his conscience not to follow Christ , then should Christ have rebuked it , but Christ did not rebuke it in the man , but directly insinuateth , v. 40. that the man was with Christ , and a spirituall follower of Christ , though hee did not in such a bodily way follow Christ , as did Judas and the eleven ; and it was the fault of the Disciples to tie all the duties of a Disciple , casting out devills in Christs name , to a bodily following of Christ , which was their pride .

3. It is a good way , to refute sects , and erroneous opinions by Scriptures , and so is it a good way to convince an incestuous man of the hainousnesse of his sinne by Scriptures , and to convince Hymeneus and Alexander of their blasphemous opinions by Scripture , for Scripture layeth open the vildnesse of sinnes and here●es : but it doth not follow , therefore it is not also a good way to deliver incestuous persons , and blasphemets to Satan , that the spirit may bee saved in the day of the Lord , and that they may learne not to blaspheme , 1 Cor. 5. 5. 1 Tim. 1. 5. Preaching of the Word is one meane to beare downe sects and erroneous opinions , but it taketh not away , but establisheth Church-discipline as another meane , and the one is subordinate to the other : if Matth. 18. an offending brother can bee convinced and brought to repentance by the power of the Word ( as all rebukes must bee from the Word ) it is good , but if he remaine obstinate in his offence , Christ will have the man excommunicated , and esteemed a Heatben and a Public●n .

4. It is a vaine thing to say that God hath refuted all here●●s in the Word , and therefore there is no need of Synods to refute them , and to make determinations on the contrary , for it was certaine that the Word of God had refuted the necessitie of circum●ision and of observing Moses his Law , as Peter , James , Paul , Act. 15. doe strongly prove from the Word of God and the word of God condemned the eating of things strang●●● , and of things sacrificed to Idolls in the case of scandall ; therefore none of sound judgement will inferre that the determination of a Synod , such as is Act. 15. 22. is not necessary ; yea because the bookes of Moses condemned the Sadduces in their Epicurith opinion of denying the resurrection of the dead , I hope it is not for that superfluous for Christ out of Moses his writings to determine and prove , Matth. 22. that the dead must ●i●c againe ; you may by as good reason say , nothing should bee determined in preaching , nor in writings , because all these are already determined in the Word , by the Lord , his Prophets and Apostles : this shall close evert all ministery , ( as S●inians doe ) especially now after the cannon of the Scripture is closed , for they use the same very arguments against the necessitie of a ministery , because now the Gospell is fully revealed , there is no necessitie of a sent ministery , as was in the Apostles time : so teach a a Andr. Raddeccius in ne●s ad l●brun Smiplec●● pag. 3. & in defens . tract de ●● sfi. pag. 140. Andr. Raddeccius , b b S●alcius in ●●fut . Thes. Frantz . dis 4. pag. 377. Smalcius , and c c R●mons●r . in Ap lo●● 21. s l 226. 2 7. and 246 and Fpis●●p●us disp 28. thes. n. the Arminians .

And lastly , it is a vild abusing of Scripture to say that the accept th●e yeare of the Lord , of which Christ speaketh , Luk. 4. 18 , 1● . is that Jubilee yeare of libertie of conscience to all sects of Papists , Arminians , Socinians , Anabaptists , &c. 1. Because a libertie of hereticall and blasphemous opinions of God , his nature , worship , and Word , cannot bee the acceptable yeare of the Lord which Christ as Mediator came to proclaime , Esa. 61 2. 5. for that is licence , not libertie ; Christs acceptable yeare , Fsiy 61. is the spirituall Jubilee of remission of sinnes , and eternall redemption proffered in the Gospel , and really bestowed upon the meeke , the broken hearted , the captives , the prisoners , the mourne●s in Zi●n , and those whom Christ is sent to comfort , and to clothe with the garments of praise ; but hee is not sent to comfort Macedonians , Sabellians , papists , Socinians , &c. because they are Sectaries , and doe adhere to their rotten and false grounds of divinitie ; for then libertie of conscience should have beene a mercy purchased by Christs death , and Arius should obtaine by Christs death a power to bee an Arian , and to deny the divinitie of Jesus Christ . 2. In the Hebrew 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ultio , a revenging , is an allusion to 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 naeham , consolatus est , for this yeare was to the beleevers Nechama , or consolation , and to unbeleevers Nekama , a revenge or a vengeance , which cannot sort with sectaries . 3. The acceptable yeare is as Paul expoundeth it , 2 Cor. 6. 2. the acceptable time of the Gospell , and the day of salvation , and as d d Hugo Cardinalis com . in Esa 6. Hugo Cardinalis expoundeth it well , the time of the fulnesse of grace under the Gospel , and that which is called , Esay 49. 8. the day of salvation , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ratson , the day of good will ; and so e e Beda in locum . Beda , f f Toletus luc. Toletus , g g Cyrillus . Cyrillus , h h Salme●en . and the Jesuit Salmeron and i i Gloss. ordin . annum placabilem , id est , fidem & salutem hominum . Glossa Ordinaria expoundeth it faith and salvation , k k Procopius in ●arnationis domini tempus innui● . Procopius the day of the Lords incarnation , as l l Hieronymus diem 〈◊〉 , ●d est , damnatio●●s Roman●s . Hieronymus expoundeth the day of vengeance opposit thereunto , to bee the day of damnation ; and m m Lyra , annus dominicae passionis in quo placa●●s est gene●i 〈◊〉 . Lyra the yeare of Christs suffering , in which Christ is pleased with mankind .

Quest. III. Whether the Jesuited Lysimachus Nicanor , and the Author of the Survey of Discipline , doth with good reason impute ●● the Church-Government of the reformed Churches , the eversion of the 〈◊〉 Magistrates power ●n matters ecclesiasticall ?

There came to the light of day , a night-peece of darkenesse , Anno 1640. A Pamphlet by one Lysimachus Nicanor , acting the person of a ●esuite , but better resembling ● is nature , against our blessed Reformation , imputing to us Treason to Kings , as the Popish author of the Survey had ledde the poore man : a a Survey of discipl . c. 2● 23 both of these , as Jesuites , doe raile against Calvin , Beza , and the Geneva-discipline , as Becanus , Suarez , Uasquez , Bellarmine , Gre●serus , and other their Doctors and teachers doe leade them . That I may adde to what I have said before , I desire the reader to eye and consider these distinctions .

1. b b Far●us com in Rom. c. 13. dub . 5. in appendic ad fol. arg resp. 1. Paraeus teacheth that there is a double Church-power , one internall and proper , as to preach , hinde , and loose , to administrate the Sacraments , &c. This is not in the Prince : and there is another improper and externall , which is exercised about Church-matters , and Church-officers : and this distinction is grounded upon that saying of Constantine the Emperour to the Bishops , as c c Puschius l 4 c. 24. de ●ita Constantin● , ●es istis episcopi in ecclesia , ego extra ecclesiam seu ●emplum a deo s●●n constitutus . Eusebius relateth it .

2. An externall power about matters ecclesiasticke is three-fold .

1. A power of order and jurisdiction about the externall , or rather in the externall acts of the Church , which are visible and incurreth in the 〈…〉 , as to preach , baptize , and these , ( as saith that learned and d d Gul Apollo 〈…〉 . Vedelium de Episco . constan . c 2. nu. 2. worthy preacher at Middleburgh , Guliel . Apollonii ) doe properly pertaine to the spirituall and proper Church-government , and without controversie doe not belong to the Prince .

2. A power externall about Church-matters , which is objective , in respect of the object , sacred or ecclesiastick , but improperly , and by a 〈◊〉 enely ecclesiasticke , and essentially and in it selfe politick , such as we hold to be the Magistrates power in causing Church-men doe their duty in preaching sound doctrine , and administrating the Sacraments , ●cording to Christs institution , and punishing hereticks and false teachers .

3. Some have devised a mixed power ecclesiastick , ( as Henric. e e Salcobrigiens . p. 121. Salcobrigiensis ) whereby the Prince is the head of the Church , and hath a nomotheticke , and legislative power , in things ecclesiasticall : and this is not onely objective in respect of the object ecclesiasticall , but also subjective in respect of the subject , ecclesiasticall , in respect that the Prince by vertue of his civill office , as a King may ordaine Prelats , and make Lawes in Church-matters .

Distinction . 3. There is a twofold power in a King , one in a King as a King , this is alike in all , and ordinary , regall , coactive ; whether the King be a Heathen , a Turke , or a sound beleeving Christian . There is another power in a King , as such a King , either a King and a Prophet also , or as a Propheticall King : and this extraordinary power was in Solomon and David , to write Canonicke Scripture , and to prophecie , and is not properly a Kingly power : or there is in a King as such a King , even as a Christian beleeving King , an other power ordinary indeede , but it is not a new regall power , but potestas executiva , a power or a gracious hability to execute the Kingly power that he had before as a King ; so Christianity addeth no new Kingly power to a King , but onely addeth a Christian power to use , inlarge , and dilate the Kingly power , that he had before .

Distinction 4. The Magistrate as a Magistrate is a politicke head and ruler of the Common-wealth , but as a Christian he is a member of the Church .

5. The Kings power as King in things ecclesiasticke , is not servi●e and meerely executive , as the Churches servant , to put their decrees in execution , but it is regall , princely and supreame .

6. The object of the Kings power is not simply a peaceable life , and externall peace of humane societies , but also honesty and godlinesse , but to be procured by a civill , politicke , regall and coactive way , by the Sword of the secular arme , as the object of the Church power is honesty and godlinesse to be procured by a ministeriall , ecclesiasticall , and spirituall power , without any forcing of men by externall power .

7. The end of Kingly power , de jure , by Gods right and divine Law , exintentione Dei approbativâ , is godlinesse , but the end of Kingly power according to its essence , and de facto , is a quiet life , though it attaine not Godlinesse , as it doth not attaine that end , nor can it attaine it , amongst Pagans , and yet there is a Kingly power in its essence , whole and intire amongst Pagans , where there is no godlinesse , or Christian Religion .

8. There is in Heathen Kings a regall and Kingly power to establish Christian Religion and adde regall sanctions to Christian Synods , though there neither is , nor can be , during the state of Heathen Paganisme , any Christian Religion there ; this power is essentially and actu primo , regall , yet as concerning execution , it is vertuall onely .

9. There is a difference betwixt a royall command under the paine of 〈◊〉 punishment , with a royall power to punish the contraveners 〈◊〉 ecclesiasticke , and a nomotbeticke power to make Church Lawes ; 〈…〉 hath the former power , but not the latter .

10. If the royall power be of that transcendent and eminent greatnesse , as to make Lawes in all things , belonging to Church 〈◊〉 , and so as f f Camero . praelect . 10. 1. p. 370. 372. Camero must be heard , saying , that the ●ing is the supreame ruler , and Church-men be as servants , and instruments under him , and doe all in the externall government of the Church by vertue of the Kings supreame authority , the King is not much honoured by this ; for they must say that the King in the Physitian giveth dregs to the sicke , in the Plow-man laboureth the earth , in the fashioner seweth and s●a●eth garments , whereas Paraeus g g Paraeus com . in Rom. 13. in append . ad du● . 5. P●arogn●t . 6. who without reason also giveth to the Prince a nomothetick power in Church-matte●s , doth except some things that the Prince cannot doe , sometimes for want of right and law , other sometimes for want of knowledge , sometimes because it is against the dignity of his Majesty , as in sordid and base arts .

11. The power of governing the Church of the Jewes , though it was ordinarily in the Priesthood , the Sonnes of Aaron , whose ●ippes did preserve , ex officio , knowledge , Mal. 2. yet as the Prophets were raised up by God , extraordinarily to teach , they 〈◊〉 by that same extraordinary power did governe , and therefore though the Kings of Israel were not Priests , yet without doubt some of them were Prophets , and as Prophets they did prophecy , and as Prophets determine many things of Government , by that same extraordinary power by which some of them , to wit David , and Solomon , did prophecy , and pen Ca● ni●k Scripture .

12. There is one consideration of abuses and heresies manifestly re 〈◊〉 to Gods word , and another of those things that are ordinar● 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . In the former there is no neede of the Churches ministeriall power of condemning them , and therefore Ezechias , Jos●as , Asa , ●●osaphat , did manifestly by the light of nature , and Gods word 〈◊〉 abuses , and Idolatry in Gods worship without the Churches 〈◊〉 , seeing the Church representative was guilty of these cor 〈◊〉 us themselves ; but in the latter , seeing the Kings place is to com 〈◊〉 and compell by externall force and bodily punishments , and it is the Churches part to teach , inserme , binde , and loose , therefore the King can make no Church Canons .

Hence our first conclusion . The Christian Magistrate as a Christian is a member of the Church , but as a Magistrate he is not formally a member or part of the Church .

1. Because he is neither a Pastor , Doctor , Elder , nor Deacon , as is cleare to any , for these offices were compleate in the Church without the Magistrate , Ephes. 1. 11. else Christ ascending to heaven should have given Kings , for the edifying of his body ; Neither is hee as a Magistrate a part of the company of beleevers . 1. Because then all Magistrates as Magistrates should bee professors of the faith , which is knowne to bee false . 2. Because the Magistrate , as such , is the head of an externall politick civill societie , not of Christs body .

2. The Magistrate as a Magistrate wanteth such things as essentially constituteth a member of the Church , as a Magistrate onely hee hath neither baptisme , profession , nor faith , because then heathen Magistrates should not bee Magistrates , the contrary whereof the Word of God saith , Jeremiah in Gods name commanded to obey the King of Babylon , and Paul commanded to pray for Kings and heathen Magistrates , 1 Tim. 2. 1. Hence let us have leave to deny these , ( Hee who is the Churches nurs-father , is the Churches father , and a part of the family . ) 2. ( Whose office it is to cause all in the visible Church to professe the truth , obey God , and keep his Commandements , hee is a member of the Church . ) 3. ( Hee who is a keeper and preserver of Law and Gospell by his office , hee is by his office a member of the Church . ) For the first : hee is a father metaphorically , and doth by an externall coactive power , and by the sword nourish the Church , and therefore is not the Church , nor a part of the Church , ex officio , by his office , as the nurs-father is not the child , nor a part of the child , whereof hee is nurse-father ; and this , and both the other two are to bee denyed , because the Magistrate doth neither nurse the Church , nor cause the Church doe their dutie , nor desend the Law and Gospell by any power that is intrinsecally Church-power , but by the sword , and coactive power , which in no sort belongeth to Christs kingdome as a part thereof , either as it is internall , and invisible , or externall or visible , which is not of this world , Joh. 1● . 36.

3. By no word of God can h h Salc●b●ig . pap 121. Salcobrigiensis , and i i 〈…〉 p 〈…〉 . 1. c 8. Weemes prove , that the Magistrate as the Magistrate is a mixt persen , and his power a mixt power , partly civill , partly ecclesiastick , for ●● the ruler commeth in amongst the ordinary Church-officers , ● m. 12. Ephes. 4. 11. 1 Tim. 2. 2. which the Word of God doth ●●ver insinuate , and hee should no lesse watch for soules , as ●●e who is to give an account to God , then other Church-officers , Heb. 13. 17. for the Magistrates office may bee performed by himselfe alone , hee himselfe alone may use the sword in all things , which hee doth as a Magistrate , as is cleare , Rom. 13. 1. and 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14 the King judging his alone , and the Kings deputie sent by him judging his alone is to bee obeyed , but no Church power , mixt or pure , and unmixt is committed to any one man , but to many , as to the Church , Matth. 18. 17. 1 Cer. 5. 2. 3 4. 2 Cor. 2. 6

4. The Magistrate as the Magistrate hath a civill dominion ever the body , goods and lives of men . 2. And hath the sword to compell men to doe their duties . 3. And compelleth to externall obedience , and leadeth men on to godlinesse and to eternall life , by externall pompe , force and the terrors of bodily and externall punishment , and his warfare is carnall , a● the k k

Dan 3. 29

Dan. 6. 26 , 27.

Luk. 22. 24. 29

Rem 13 4.

1 Pet. 2 13 , 14. &c.

1 Tim 2. 2.

Scripture doth prove ; but the Church , and members of the Church as they are such , have no majoritie of dominion , 1 Pet. 5. 3 , 4. Luke 22. 24. 25. over the body , and goods , and blood of men . 2. They have not the sword , nor power of the sword , Joh. 18. 36. John 8. 11. Luke 12. 13. 14. 2 Cor. 10. 4. 3. The Church as the Church dealeth by the word of admonisting , teaching , rebuking , excommunicating , praying and requesting , as the l l

Col. 2. 16.

● Thes. 5. 11 , 12.

l ●v 19. 17.

Matth 18. 15. 16 , 17.

1 Cor. 5. 2 , 3 , 4.

1 Tim 1. 20.

1 Tim. 5. 20.

2 Cor. 5. 19 , 20.

2 Cor. 10. 14.

Scripture cleareth : therefore the power of the Church and the power of the magistrate must dister in spece and nature .

5. If the Magistrate be a chiefe member of the Church , as a Magistrate with mixt power to make Church-Lawes , then is the Church not perfect in its beeing , and operations , to obtaine the end convenient to the Church as the Church , so long as it wanteth the Magistrate , because it should bee made defective , and not able to exercise all its operations for the edification of Christs body , and gathering of the Saints , Ephes. 4. 11. without this principall member , especially seeing the Magistrate is alleadged to bee a member , or integrall part of the Church , such as the head or eyes , otherwise without this , or that professor , a Church may be perfect , as an army may be perfect , without this or that common Souldier , but wanting a Leader it should not bee perfect . But so it is that the Church is and was perfect in its being , and operations , without the civill Magistrate ; the Church of Corinth where the Magistrate was a heathen , and a Pagan , 1 Cor. 6. 1 , 2 , 3. is yet a Church sanctified in Christ Jesus , called to bee Saints , 1 Cor. 1. 2 graced , v. 4. inriched by Christ in all utterance and knowledge , v. 5. comming behind in no gift , v. 7. with power of excommunication which attaineth its proper end , the saving of the spirit in the day of the Lord Jesus , 1 Cor. 5. 4. A perfect body of Christ , 1 Cor. 12. able to edifie the whole body , 1 Cor. 14. 12. 25 , 26 , 27. having power of the seales of the Covenant , 1 Cor. 11. 20 , 21 , 22 , 23. So was there a perfect Church-Synod without the civill Magistrate , Act. 1. Act. 6. Act. 15. and all for the saving of the redeemed Church is laid upon the Eldership of Ephesus , Act. 20. 28 , 29 , 30 , 31. without the Magistrate .

6. If the King bee a mixt person indued with Church power to make canons , and because annointed with holy oyle , capable of jurisdiction ecclesiasticall , as some say , then as hee is a King by birth , so is hee also borne with an ecclesiasticall power to exercise spirituall jurisdiction : but Paul saith , all ecclesiasticall power that hee had , was given of God , not borne with him ; hee was made , not borne a Minister , Col. 2. 25. the power to edifie was given him , 2 Cor. 10. 8.

2. Conclusion . Wee cannot by the Word of God acknowledge that difference , betwixt the Magistrate , and the Christian Magistrate , that the Magistrat as a Magistrate hath a kingly power to rule over men as men , and the Christian Magistrate hath a Christian kingly power to rule over men as they are Christians . Because by one and the same kingly power the King ruleth over men as men , and men as Christian men , commanding by the sword and kingly power that Pastors preach sound doctrin , administrate the Sacraments aright , that all the Church professe Christ , and abstaine from blasphemy , and Idolatry . Hee is the minister of God for good , Rom. 13. Ergo , hee is the Minister of God for all good , for a Christian good , and is a King compelling to a Christian good : Also though the King were not a Christian magistrate , yet hath hee a Kingly power to command men as Christians , and it is by accident , that hee cannot in that state actually command Christian duties , and service to Christ , because hee will not , and cannot command these duties remaining ignorant of Christ , even as a King ignorant of necessary civill duties cannot command them , not because hee wanteth kingly power to command these civill things , for undeniably hee is a Judge in all civill things , but because hee hath not knowledge of them . 3. Christianitie maketh him not a King over Christians as Christians , for then hee could not bee their King , and were not a King over Christians , so long as hee wanteth Christianitie , which is false , for the Christians acknowledged heathen Emperours as their Kings ; the people of God were to obey Nebuchadnezzar , Darius , Cyrus , and other beathen Kings . Paul will have obedience and subjection due to every power , Rom. 13. 1 , 2. 1 Tim. 2. 1 , 2 , 3. 1 Pet. 2. 7. 18. 4. It maketh way to the popish dethroning of Kings when they turne hereticks , and leave off to bee members of the Christian Church , which wee abhorre . 5. A King is parens patriae , the father of the Commonwealth . Now Christianitie addeth no new fatherly power to a father over his children , for a heathen father is as essentially a father , as a Christian Father , and a heathen commander in warre , a heathen husband , a heathen master , a heathen doctor or teacher , are all as essentially commanders , husbands , &c. in relation to their soul diers , wives , servants , and schollers , as are the Christian commander , the Christian husband , the Christian master , and Christian Doctor , in relation to Christian souldiers , Christian wives , &c. and no man can say that Christianitie giveth a new husband-right to the husband , once a heathen , over his wife , that hee had not before .

3. Conclusion . The King is not debarred as King from the inspection , oversight , and care of ecclesiasticall affaires , but the end of the Kingly power , is not onely externall peace , but also godlinesse , 1 Tim. 2. 2. And in the intrinsecall end of magistracie as magistracie , is not onely naturall happinesse , and a quiet of life ; as a a M. Anton. de domi . Archie . Spala●ens . l. 6. c. 3. n. 4 , 5 , 6. seq. Spalat● , and after him that learned author b b Gulielm . Apollon. de jure magist●a . in sacr. pa● . ● . c. 4 & 5. Apollonius saith , but also godlinesse that wee may lead a quiet and a peaceable life , in all godlinesse and b●nes●ie ; Ergo , in all that may conduce to life eternall , hee is a King by office , but in a coactive and regall way .

2. The ruler is ( Rom. 13. 4 ) The minister of God to thee for good , v. 3. Do that which is good , and thou shalt have praise of the Ruler : then looke how farre good and well doing , which is praiseworthy extendeth , as farre doth the intrinsecall end of magistracy reach ; but this good , and welldoing which the magistrate as the magistrate procureth , is not onely a naturall happinesse , and the quiet life of a civill societie , but also the good and well doing of Christians as Christians , to wit , publick praying , praysing , preaching , hearing of the word , religious administration and receiving of the Sacraments , all which the King as King is to procure ; for what ever good externall Pastors as Pastors doe procure , that same also , but in a civill and coactive way , is the King as the King to procure , and therefore his end as King is godlinesse , and eternall life , but he is busied about this end , after a farre other and more carnall way then the pastor , the weapons of whose warfare are not carnall . 3. That the Kings end intrinsecall , as King , is more then externall and naturall peace , is cleare , because ill doing against which he as the Minister of God , is to execute vengeance , and wrath , Rom. 13. 3 , 4. is not onely that which is contrary to externall quietnesse of the commonwealth , and the naturall happinesse of civill societies , but also that which is contrary to the happinesse supernaturall of the Church as beleevers in the way to life eternall , for hee is to take vengeance upon blasphemy , idolatry , professed unbeleefe , neglect of religious administration of the seales , and the eating and drinking damnation at the Lords Table , which are ills not formally contrary to externall quietnesse , but which are directly scandalls , and morall ills hindering men as members of the Church in their journey to life eternall ; for though men should never falle o● sinne against the externall quietnesse of the naturall happinesse of the members of a commonwealth , yet the magistrate as the magistrate is to execute vengeance upon all externall ill-doing , as blasphemy , adoring of idolls . 4. The magistrate as the magistrate , in the zeale of God , is to set himselfe against sinnes , as dishonorable to God , and his glory , seeing the judgement that hee executeth , is not mans , but the Lords , 2 Chron. 1● . 6. and hee is a little God in the roome of God , yea God ●●tteth judging in , and through him , Psal. 82. v. 1. and therefore his end is not onely to punish sinnes , as they trouble the externall peace of the commonwealth , but all externall sinnes , that may wound the honour of God , and against which the magistrate , as he is such , is to be armed and cloathed with zeale . 5. Those who with Spalato teach that life eternall is not the end of the magistrate , as a magistrate , but onely the extrinsecall end of the magistrate , or the end of the person who is the magistrate , must foulely erre ; so it is not , in their meaning , the end of the office or kingly art to maintaine religion and pi●tie , but this is the end of the person cloathed with the office , and so they deny that God hath destined the kingly office to helpe men as Christians to heaven , and to promove Christs kingdome mediatory , and they must bee forced to say , God hath ordained magistracie to helpe men as men , or as they have a life common to them with the beasts , and not to helpe them as Christian men , to ●●ie from the wrath to come , and obtaine life eternall , which certainly is against the honour of magistracie , b b

Esa. 49. 2● . Revel. 21. 16. Psal. 2. 10 , 11 , 12.

Psal. 71. v. 10 , 11 , 12.

which of its owne nature is destined for the promoving of religion , else the magistrate as the magistrate is not a nurs-father in the Church , nor to bring his glory to the new Jerusalem , nor to kisse the Sonne , nor to exalt the throne of Jesus Christ , contrary to the Word of God . 6. Yea they were onely to promove the Church as a societie of men , and to set up the throne of justice for the second table of the Law , and not a throne for pietie , and for the first table of the Law , which is observed by c c August . con●r . liter . Petilian . l. 3. c. 92 contr. Cr●sco . lib. 8. c. 51. Augustine , who will have Kings to serve the Lord , not onely ●●men , but also as Kings , in such sort which none can doe , who are not Kings , and that ●● onely in civill ●ffaires , but also in matters concerning divine religion : which passage , as d d Bell●●m . de pontif . Rom. l. 1. c. 5. Bellarmine corrupteth it on the one hand , making the King a Governour of men according to their bodies , and his old father the Antichrist a governou● of men according to their soules , so doth that virulent libeller e e Lysimach . Nicanor , epist. to the Cove nan of Scotland , pag. 16. Lysimachus Nicanor , with no reason inferre that the King is head of the Church , and hath a Nomothetick power to impose the service booke , and booke of Canons upon the Church of Scotland . But because the King as King is to promove religion , therefore f f Junius eccles. l. 3. c. 5. saith Junius ) Minos , Ly●urgus , Charondas , Zeleu●us , and Numa obli●ged men to their Lawes by some colour of religion . 7. Nor doe I thinke what is said against this by some learned men of great weight ; see g g Guliel . Apollon. de jure magist . contr. Vedeli . par. 1. ● . 3. pag. 52. Guliel . Apollonius , h h M. Antkon . de domi . Archiepis . Spala● . de rep. eccle. l. 6. c. 3. sect. 17. Spalatensis , i i Tilenus Syntag. pag. 2. disp. 32. thes. 33. Tilenus , k k Daneus polit. Ch. l. 6. c. 1. Daneus , l l Bucan loc. com 49. ● . 13 ▪ ● 31. Bu●anus , m m Professor . Leidens . d. 50. thes. 49. Professor . Leidens . Some say the magistrates power and the ecclesiastick power differ in the objects , the Magistrates powers ( say they ) object is things earthly , and the externall man ; the power of the Church is things spirituall , and the inner man .

I answer , these two powers differ in the objects no question , I meane in the formall objects , not in the materiall , for the magistrate as a magistrate is a nurs-father , and keeper , and avenger of both Tables of the Law , and hath a coactive power about hearing the word , administration of the Sacraments , Idolatry , blasphemy , and the right serving of God in Jesus Christ , and these things are not res terrenae , earthly things , or things of this life , but spirituall things . Yea the affaires of Jehovah and the Kings matters , 2 Chron. 19. 11. saith Amesius , o o Ames . de Conscien . l. 5. c. 25. are not so different , non it a disparata sunt , as that the care and knowledge of the things of God , belongeth not to the King , sed it a distinguuntur , ut in modo procurandi , rex politice suas partes agat , & sacerdos ecclesiastice suas ; the objects of the magistrates power , and of the Churches power may be materially and are one & the same , but the King worketh in a coactive and kingly way , and the Church in an ecclesiastick and spirituall way .

For doe not both the King as King , and the Church as the Amesius Medul. Theol. l. 2. c. 17. 〈◊〉 entm est res , aut causa 〈◊〉 ecclesiastica qu●n aliqua ratiene pertineat ad jwisdictionem Mag●stratus , neq●ulla est 〈◊〉 tam secula●● , modo ab ecclesiae memb●o p●aestetur qum qua●enus observant●am e●ga 〈◊〉 resp●●●t ▪ per●mere possi● ad ecclesiasticam 〈◊〉 ●nem . Church , command and forbid one and the same thing ? doth not the King command the right worship of God , and forbid Idolatry , and the Blasphemy of God ? and doth not the Church in their Synodical Canons command and forbid one and these some things ? yea certainly , but the King doth command and forbid by a kingly and coactive power , under the paine of bo●●lv punishment , as incarceration , exile , proscription , or death , according to the quality of the fact . And the Church commandeth also the right worship of God , and forbiddeth Blasphemy and Idolatry , but by a spirituall and ecclesiastick power , and under the paine of spirituall and ecclesiasticall censures , as open rebuke , suspension , and excommunication ; and they differ not so in their ends , as some teach , so as the end of the Church powes should be the communion of Saints , and the edifying of the body of the Church , which I grant is true , and the end of the Ruler should be onely preservation of peace , and the externall tranquillity of the Common-wealth : yea ( I say from the Word of God ) that externall peace is too narrow an end , and it doth belong to the second Table , the Kings end as Nurse-father and his a like care is to preserve the first Table , and as a Nurse-father , to see that the childrens milke be good and wholesome , though the milke come not from his owne breasts ; and so his power hath a kingly relation to all the Word of God , and not to externall peace and naturall happinesse onely . And the King as the King , his end is edification and spirituall good of soules also , but alwayes by a kingly power , and in a coactive way , by the sword , whereas the Church , are in their care of edifying soules , to use no such carnall weapons in their warfare , 2 Cor. 10. 4. For which cause p p Martyr . loc. com . elas . 4. loc. 3 that learned P. Martyr , and q q Parkerus de ●olue . a eccles. l. ● . 1. ● . 6 〈◊〉 Parker , and also r r Professor . 〈◊〉 . ●●col . disp. 50. Thes. 49 50 , 51 , 52. Parkerus 16. Ecclesia visibilis , quanquam externa , ad regn●● Christ●●●leste per●●ne● . the Professors of Leyden say that Ministers deale with consciences of men , Quoniam Spiritus Sanctus ( inquit Martyr ) vim suam adjungit cum praedicationibus orthodoxis , the holy Spirit conjoyneth the power and influence of grace with sound preaching ; and the Magistrate doth onely exercise externall discipline . And Parker reasoning against Whitgift and 〈◊〉 , proveth well that the Church visible , though externall , yet is Christs spirituall Kingdome , and that Church discipline is a part of Christs spirituall Kingdome , and that the externall government of Christ by discipline , is spirituall every way , according to the efficient , 1 Cor. 12. 1. according to the end , spirituall ●dification , Ephes. 4. 12. according to the matter , the Word and Sacraments , 2 Cor. 10. 3 , 4. according to the forme of working , by the evidence of the Spirit , 2 Cor. 2. 4. 13. And this is the cause ( I conceive ) why great Divines have said the object of the Magistrates power as a Magistrate is the externall man , and earthly things , because he doth not in such a spirituall way of working , take care of the two Tables of the Law , as the Pastor doth ; and yet the spirituall good and edification of the Church in the right preaching of the Word , the Sacraments , and pure discipline is his end . It is true , whether the blasphemer professe repentance , or not , the Magistrate is to punish , yea and to take his life , if he in seducing of many , have prevailed , but yet his end is edification , even in taking away the life ; for he is to put away evill , that all Israel may feare , and doe so no more : but this edification is procured by the sword , and by a coactive power , and so the Church power and the kingly power differ in their formall objects , and their formall ends . But s s Anthon. de Dom. Arch●epis●● . Spalatens . l 6. c. 3. 9. 10. Spalato speaketh ignorantly of Kings . Who saith , as the internall and proper end of the Art of painting , the Art of sailing , &c. is not life eternall , but onely to paint well , according to the precepts of Art , and to bring men safe to their harborie , though the persons who are painters and sailers may direct works of their Art to life eternall : so ( saith he ) the end of the kingly Art is not life eternall , but onely the externall peace of the Common ▪ wealth ; hence inferreth he , that there is no subordinatim betwixt the power of the Magistrate , and the power of the Church , but that they are both so immediate under God , as the Church cannot in a Church way regulate the King , as a King , but onely as he is a christian man ; the Church may rebuke the King , while as he abuseth his kingly power to the destruction of soules , and that the Church power , as such , is not subordinate to the kingly power , onely the King may correct with the sword the Pastors , not as Churchmen and Pas●ors , but as men who are his subjects . But , 1. whereas it is certaine the King in respect of politick power is the immediate Vicegerent of God , and above any subject in his Dominions , so doth the Bishop , make the Shoe-maker , the Painter , the master-fashioner immediate unto God and censurable by none , as they are Artificers , even as the King is censurable by none as King , and so the King is dishonoured , who by office is the Lords annoynted , and a little God on earth , Psal. 82. v. 1. (2) The intrinsecall end of kingly power is no more the advancing of godlinesse , and the promoving of the Kings daughter towards life eternall , by the sincere milke of the Word , as the Lords Vicegerent , and Nurse-Father of the Church , then the Painter as a Painter , or a Sea-man as a Sea-man is to advance godlinesse : for this mans intrinsecall and is onely a safe harbour and shoare to temporall lives , not the harbour of salvation to soules ; and his end is onely a faire Image of Art in Paper or Clay , not the Image of the second Adam ; and by this the King as King is interdicted of any Church businesse , or care of soules to be fed by the Word or Sacraments , to keepe them cleane ; if he looke to any of these , as an end , that is not the eye or intention of the King as King , but of the King as a godly Christian , ( saith Spalato : ) hence to care for the spirituall good of the Church , and the promoving of the Gospel is as accidentall , as to say , an excellent Painter , such as Ap●ies , intendeth in his painting life eternall : so the King , by this , looketh to the Law of God , to Religion and the eternall happinesse of the Church , by guesse , by accident , and as King , hath neither chaire nor roome in Christian Synods , nor a seat in the Church . 3. If the meaning be , that the King as King , that is rightly exercisng the office of a King , is subordinate to no Church power , that is , he cannot be justly and deservedly rebuked by Pastors , that is most true , but nothing to any purpose ; for so the Pastor as a Pastor , Jeremiah as he doth truly and in the name of the Lord exercise the propheticall office , cannot be deservedly censured , nor punished either by the Church-synodrie , or the King and Princes of the Land : but thus way all members of the Church , an I any one single beleever , doing his duty , should be as immediate , and independent , and highest next on earth to Christ as the King , and his three Estates of the Honourable Parliament are in civill matters , and as an Occumenick Councell , or in our brethrens meaning , independent Congregation , which is against reason . But if the meaning be , the acts of a King as aberring from justice , not as a King , but as a fraile man , may be censured and rebuked deservedly by Pastors in a Church way ; this way also , the Pastor as a Pastor is not subject to the Church , but onely as a fraile man , and so nothing is said to the purpose in this more then the in the former . But if the meaning be thirdly , that which onely maketh good sense , that the acts of the King abstracted from good or bad , or as kingly , or not morall , nor acts of justice or injustice , more then the acts of Painting , of sailing , of making of Shooes , and thus the King is not subject to the Church power , nor is his intrinsecall end as King , justice , and godlinesse and preservation of Religion , the man speaketh non-sense , and wonders ; for the King as a King is a morall agent , and not infallible in his Lawes or administration . Ergo , as a King he is under the Scepter of the King of Saints in discipline , and in the keyes of the Kingdome of God , and so the kingly office is subordinate to the power of Christ in his Ministers and Church discipline , and by that same reason , the power and offices of Ministers as they are morall agents and obnoxious to sinne , to false doctrine , blasphemy , idolatry , idlenesse and sleepinesse in feeding the flock , are under the coactive power of the supreme Governour ; and he doth as King use the sword against them : hence it is cleare that both the kingly power is subordinate to Church-power , and that the subordination is mutuall , that also the Church-power is subordinate to the kingly power , and that both also in their kind are supreme ; the kingly power is the highest and most supreme , and under no higher coactive power : I meane the kingly as kingly conjoyned with the collaterall power of Parliaments , where the Realme is so governed , and the Church-power is the highest in the kind of Ecclesiasticall power . t t Joan. Major Parisien . lib. 4. sent. dist . 24. q. 3. Joan. Major saith well , that they are not subordinate , that is , not one of them is above another , that I grant , but that which he and Spalato saith , neutri in alteram est imperium , that neither of the two hath a commandement over another , that we deny , yet are they powers in office and nature different , for they differ in their objects . 2. Use and end . 3. And their manner of specifick operations , and the Kings power is not ecclesiastick .

Others say that there was a perfect civill policy , having no need of the Church power , anent the perfect civill government amongst the Heathen , and in Christian Common-wealths , the civill power of it selfe and of its owne nature can doe nothing , for the attaining of eternall happinesse , except we would goe to the tents of Pelagians , whither Papists doe lead us , while as they teach that the naturall end of civill power , of its owne nature and intrinsecally is ordained to eternall happinesse . But the civill power of it selfe doth conferre nothing , whereby the spirituall power of the Church hath intrinsecally , and properly , and formally its dignity , power , strength , and proper vertue ; and doth produce its owne proper effect and end , because , as saith w w Sp●l●tens de ●ep . eccles. l. 6. ● . 3. n. 17. Spalato , the civill Magistrates end is of another republike different from the Church , he is head of the Common-wealth , and civill body : see x x Guli●l n. Apollonius pastor 〈◊〉 Magist. par. 1. c 3. pag. 5● , 53. Apollonius .

But I answer , there is a Policy civill without the Ecclesiasticall Policy , and the King is essentially a King , though neither he be a Christian himselfe , nor his subjects Christians ; and to the essence of a King , and to the essence of a civill government , Christianity and a Church-power is not required , yet hath the King as King essentially a right and civill coactive power to promove Christian Religion , and the edification of Christs body , though he be a Heathen ; the want of Christianity doth not take away his kingly right , onely it bindeth up and restraineth the exercise thereof ; but though he be a King essentially , and actu primo , while he wanteth Christianity , and so is a perfect Magistrate , quoad esse , and the State that he ruleth over , a perfect civill body , quoad esse , in respect of essence and being , yet is he not a perfect Magistrate , quoad 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 operari , neither he nor his civill State and body are perfect in operations . And it followeth not that the King as King can doc nothing about the obtaining of life eternall , for as a King he hath a perfect right , and kingly power to doe , and being a Christian he actually exerciseth that power , as a Nurse-father of the Church , to see that the Kings daughter be fed with wholsome milke , to see that the first and second Table be kept , and that men serve Christ , and have the seales of the Covenant in purity , under the paine of suffering the weight of his royall sword ; and I wonder that this should be called nothing for the obtaining of eternall happines , seeing it is a way to eternall happinesse to be thus fed under a Christian King as a King . But ( say they ) it is Pelagianism that the Kings power compelling the Nurses to let out their breasts to the Kings daughter , that she may sucke the sincere milke of the Word , should be a meane of eternall happinesse . I answer , and it is also Pelagianisme to say , that the planting of Paul , and watering of Apollos , and the ministeriall power and paines of Ministers , without the grace of God , can produce or effectuate supernaturall happinesse , and it is false that the kingly power of it self doth confer nothing whereby the spirituall and ecclesiasticall power hath intrinsecally and formally dignity , and power , and its proper effect ; for it is true , the kingly power maketh not the ecclesiasticall power , but it setteth it on worke , in a coactive way , for the edifying of Christs body , and doth causatively edifie . Lastly , whereas it is said the King as King is over the civill body and the Common-wealth , which is a body different in nature from the Christian body or Church ; I say , that is false , for the King as King ruleth over men , as men , and also as Christian men , causing them to keepe both the Tables of Law . But 3. ( say they ) the office of a King is not a meane sanctified of God for a supernaturall good , because it is amongst the Gentiles . I answer , this is no consequence , for that office of it selfe is sanctified and ordained of God , for keeping of both Tables of the Law , and that it worketh not this , in its owne kind , is not from the nature of the kingly office , but from the sinfull disposition of the Gentiles ; so the Word is the savour of death to some , through their default . Ergo , it is not a meane sanctified for that end ; it followeth not . But 4. the office of the King of it selfe and its owne power doth not governe or subdue the inward man , for immediately and of its owne power it cannot bind the conscience , but onely by the interveening mediation of the Word of God . Ergo , of it selfe it intendeth not to produce a supernaturall and eternall good . Answ. Nor can the office of a Minister of it selfe , and in its owne power , produce a supernaturall good , but onely by the authority of the Word , Esa. 8. 20. Jer. 23. v. 22. Tit. 1. 9. 10. is it therefore no office sanctified for a supernaturall end ? But 5. they reason , a supernaturall good , and life eternall , are effects flowing from the mediatory office of Christ , bestowed upon the Church : but the kingly power floweth not from the Mediator Christ , but from God as Creator , who bestoweth lawfull Kings and Magistrates upon many Nations , who know nothing of a Saviour .

I answer , When I consider the point more exactly , I see not how Kings , who reigne by the wisdome of God Jesus Christ , Prov. 8. 14. 15. have not their kingly power from Christ , who hath all power given to him in Heaven and in Earth , Matth. 28. 18. for they are Nurse-fathers of the Church as Kings , Esa. 49. 15. they are to kisse the Sonne , and exalt his Throne , as Kings , Psal. 2. 11. they bring presents and kingly gifts to Christ as Kings , Psal. 72. v. 10. 11. and they serve Christ not onely as men , but also as Kings , as Augustine saith : y y August Epist ad Ro●●faccom . 50. therefore are they ordained , as meanes , by Christ the Mediator , to promote his kingly Throne . Some of our Divines will have the kingly power to come from God as Creator , in respect God giveth Kings , who are his Vicegerents , to those who are not redeemed , and to Nations who never heard of Christ ; and others hold that the kingly power floweth from Christ-Mediator , in respect he accomplisheth his purposes of saving of his redeemed people , by Kings authority , and by the influence of their kingly government , procureth a feeding ministery and by their princely tutory , the edification of his body the Church , which possibly both aime at truth . See a a Survey of discipline . c. 23 the groundlesse carping at Cartwright , Calvin , Beza , and others , by that sharp toothed envier of truth the Author of the Survey of holy discipline : of this hereafter more .

4. Conclusion . The King as King hath not a nomothetick , or legislative power to make Lawes in matters ecclesiastick , in a constitute Church , nor hath he a definitive sentence , as a Judge .

1. All power of teaching publikely the Church or the Churches of Christ , is given to those who are sent and called of God for that effect : but Magistrates as Magistrates are not sent nor called of God to the publike teaching of the Church . Ergo. The proposition is cleare from the like , Rom. 10. 14. How shall they preach , except they be sent ? Ergo , how shall they publikely and synodically teach , except they be sent ? Heb. 5. 4. No man taketh this honour upon him , but he that is called of God , as was Aaron , &c. Ergo , if none be a Priest to offer a Sacrifice without Gods calling , neither can he exercise the other part of the Priesthood , to teach synodically , & to give out ( 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ) decrees , Acts 16. 4. that obligeth the Churches ecclesiastically , but he who is called .

2. Who so hath nomothetick power to define and make Lawes in matters ecclesiastick , have onely a ministeriall power to expone Christs will in his Testament , under paine of Church-censures , and hath no coactive power of the sword to command these Lawes enacted , and to injoyne them on the Churches . But onely Church-men , who are formally members of the Church , as Pastors , Doctors , Elders , and others sent by the Church have this ministeriall power ; without the coactive power of the sword , and what ever the Magistrate as the Magistrate , commandeth , he commandeth it , in things ecclesiastick necessary and expedient , under bodily punishment ; I adde this , because threatning of bodily punishment , is not essentiall to Lawes in generall , because some Lawes are seconded onely with rewards , as the Judge offereth by law a reward to any , who shall bring unto him the head of a Boar , or of some notorious robber . Ergo , &c. The proposition is cleare ; the learned b b Iunius C●nt . 3. l. 1. c. 20. not . 12. Junius giveth to the Magistrate with our Divines , an interpretation of Scripture , as a Judge ; which concerneth his owne practise , they are interpreters , pro communi vocationis modo , in a Christian way , as private men , but they have no power of ecclesiastick interpretation . 2. c c Gul. Apolon . de jure Magistr. par. 2. c. 4 pag. 257. Gul. Apollonius saith , the Prince as a Christian , hath an office to exhort the Svnod , by word or Epistle , as Constantius did the Fathers of the Nicen Councell ; and his Legates exhorted the Councell of Chalcedon , ut Deo rationem reddituri . See d d Ruffinus Eister . eccles l 1 c. ● . Ruffinus e e Act. conc . Clalced . act . 2 and the acts of the Councell of Chalcedon . 3. The Magistrate hath a power judiciall , as a Magistrate , in so farre as his owne practise is concerned , to expone the things defined , but this expotition he useth , non instruendo synodice , non docendo ecclesiastice , sed docendo seu potius mandando cum certa relatione ad paenam à brachio seculari insligendam contemptoribus , not in an ecclesiasticall way teaching and instructing synodically , but teaching or rather commanding with a certaine relation to civill punishment , to be inflicted upon the contemners ; as he teacheth , what is just , or unjust in his civill Lawes , not directly to informe the mind , but to correct bad manners , and this maketh the object of kingly power about Churches matters , and the object of ecclesiasticall power , formall objects different .

3. Those who have a nomothetick power to define in Synods , are sent by the Church to Synods with authoritative commission and power for that effect , representing the Church which sent them , as all who are sent with any ambassage doe represent those who sent them . But Magistrates as Magistrates , are not sent to represent those who sent them with authoritation commission of the Church . Ergo , they have no such power ●●d●ine in Synods . I prove the proposition from the Apostles practise : Paul and Barnabas were sent as chosen men by the Church 〈◊〉 Antioch , Acts 15. 2. 3. Acts 15. 6. the Apostles and Elders came from the Church to consider of this matter , Acts 21. 18. Acts 22. 17. 〈◊〉 2 Cor. 8 17 , 18. if the Apostle with the Church sent Titus 〈◊〉 Brother , whose praise is in the Gospel , as chosen of the Churches , to travell with us , v. 19 , in gathering the charity of the Saints , for the poore at Jerusalem , then by the like , those who are sent to declare the minds of the Churches , are also clothed with the authority of the Churches , who sent them ; but Magistrates a● such , are not sent , but are there with the sword of Common-wealth , and not with the mind of the Church , as Magistrates , except they be also Christians .

4. The Apostolike Synods , is to us a perfect patterne of Synods . but persons defining in them are Apostles and Elders , Acts 16. 4. Acts 15. 6. the Church , Matth. 18. 18. defineth , and 1 Cor. 5. 4. those who are conveened in the name of the Lord ●esus , and the Apostles pastorall spirit , those who are over us in the Lord , and watch for our soules , 1 Thes. 5. 14. Heb. 13. 17. but in these Synods there are no Magistrates , yea there was at C●rinth a Heathen Magistrate , 1 Cor. 6. 1. and in the Apostolike Church a persecutor , Acts 22. 1 , 2 , 3. &c. And the Magistrate as the Magistrate , is not a member of the Church , and is neither Pastor , Elder , nor Doctor , nor a professor of the Gospel , except he be more then a Magistrate .

5. No Ecclesiasticall power , or acts formally Ecclesiasticall , are competent to one who is not an Ecclesiasticall person , or not a member of the Church , but a civill person ; but a power to define in Synods , and the exercise of acts Ecclesiasticall and matters Ecclesiasticall , are due to Ecclesiasticall persons , and to the Church . Ergo , they are not competent to the civill Judge . The proposition is evident by differences betwixt Ecclesiasticall persons and civill Magistrates , which might be more accurately set downe by others , then by me . But they differ , 1. that the Churches power is spirituall , the Magistrates causatively , effectively or objectively spirituall , but not intrinsecally and formally spirituall , because he may command by the power of the sword spirituall acts of preaching , administrating the Sacraments purely , of defining necessary truths in Synods , and forbid the contrary , but he cannot formally himselfe exercise these acts . 2. The Church-men are members of the Church , the Magistrate as such is a politick Father and Tutor of the Church , but not formally , as he is such a member of the Church . 3. The power of the Magistrate is carnall , and corporall , and coactive upon the bodies ; for which cause , Tylenus , Daneus and others say , the externall man is the object of his power , the power of the Church is spirituall , not carnall , not coactive , not bounded upon the body ; the Church hath neither power of heading or hanging , but onely they may use the sword of the Spirit , exhortations , rebukes , censures , excommunication . 4. Edification to be procured by the Word and Sacraments and Church-censures , is the end of Church-power , but edification to be procured by the sword , is the end of the civill Magistrate . 5. The Magistrate judgeth not what is true and false to be beleeved simply , as teaching , instructing , and informing the conscience , but onely what is true and false to be beleeved or professed in relation to his sword and bodily punishment , or civill rewards . 6. The Magistrates judgement is kingly , supreame , peremptory , and highest on earth , from which we are to provoke in no sort , except in appealing to God ; the Churches judgement is ministeriall , conditionall , limited by the Word of God . 7. The Magistrates power is over all , Heathen and Christian , over men as men , and over men as Christians , and agreeth to Heathen and Christian Magistrates alike ; the Church power agreeth onely to members of the Church , and is onely over members of the Church as they are such . 8. What ever causes the Magistrate handleth , as hurtfull to the Common-wealth , and contrary to the Law of God , in a politicke and civill way , these same the Churches handleth as they promote edification ; or if they be sinnes , the Church cognosceth of them , sub ratique scandali , as they are Church scandals . 9. The civill power is above the Church-men as they are Church-men , and members of a Christian Common-wealth , and the Church power is above the Magistrate as he is a member of the Church and to be edified to salvation , or censured for scandals , Matth. 18. 17. 2 This. 15. 13. 1 Tim. 5. 20. and therefore there is both a mutuall subordination betwixt the honors , and also because both are highest and most supreme in their ●ind , they are also coordinate , and two parallel supreme powers on earth : as the Church hath no politick power at all , so hath the Church no politick power above the King , but he is the onely supreme power on earth immediate under God ; so the King hath no power formally and intrinsecally ecclesiasticall over either the Church , or any member of the Church , but the Churches power is supreme under Christ the King and head of the Church . 10. The Churches power may be without the Magistrate , and is compleat both in being and operation , as Acts 1. 1. and Acts 15. 1 , 2. 1 Cor. 5. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. without it , yet it is helped much by the Magistrates power , which is cumulative , to ad help to the Church , and not privative , to take away any right or priviledge from the Church , for then the Church should be in worse case and greater bondage , under a Christian King , then if there were no King to defend the Church at al , if the Kings power were privative ; and it is true the Churches own power is cumulative , & not privative , because the Church hath no power to take nothing from it selfe ; but the King is to adde his royall ●●ield to the Bride of Christ , out of zeale to the honour of the Bridegroome , for a politick promoving of godlinesse , which the Church as such wanteth . But the kingly power though it may be , and is , in Heathen Nations perfect in its being without the Church power , yet is it not perfect in its operations , as is said . 11. The Church power is to goe before , and to define , prescribe and teach first , and the civill power to adde a civill sanction thereunto , as an accumulative and auxiliary supplement . 12. The Magistrate hath no power properly to define controversies , yet hath he the power of the judgement and discretion , and also may with a coactive power cognosce in a politick way of Church matters in reference to the use of the sword , but the Church as the Church hath a ministeriall power 〈◊〉 , to define controversies according to the Word of God . 13. Every one helpeth another to obtaine their owne ends , but hey cannot be contrary one to another formally , yet doe these differences prove , that the Magistrate , as such , cannot detine in a Synod , what is truly to be beleeved and practised by members of the Church , what not . And also godly Princes have refused this . Hosius Cordubensis writeth to Constantius the Arrian Emperour , which words Athanasius commendeth . Desine , desine , quaeso , & memineris te mortalem esse , reformida di●m judi●ii , neque te immisecas eco'esiasticis , nec nobis in hoc genere praecipe , se●e● potius a nobis disce : tibi autem d●us imperiun● commisit , nobis autem quae sunt ecclesiae , concredidit .

Ambrosius epist. 14. ut alii . 33. ad Marcellinam sororem , dicit , se Valentiniano dicere , Nolite gravare , imperator , ut ●u●es te in e t , quae divina sunt , imperiale jus habere , noli te extollere , sed si vis divinitus imperare , esto &c. subditus — ad imperatorem palatia pertinent , ad sacerdotem ecclesia ; publicorum tibi maenium jus ancessum est , non sacrorum .

Augustin . Epist. 48. & 162. Neque ausus est Christianus imperator , sic eorum ( Donaristarum ) tumultuosas et fallaces querelas suscipere , ut de judicio Episcoporum , qui Romae sederent , ipse judicaret 16. iis ipse ( imperator ) cessit ut de illa causa , post Fpiseopos , ipse judicaret , a sanctis antistitibus postea veniam petitucus .

Chrysost. hom. 4. & 5. de verbis Esa. Qumquam admirandus videtur thronus regius , tamen rerum terrenarum administrationem sortitus est , nee praeter potestatem hanc , praetere ●quicquam autoritatis habet .

Leontius Tripolis Lydiae Episcopus , cum Constantius in eonventu Episcoporum multa praescriberet , Miror ( inquit ) qui fiat , ut aliis curandis destinatus , alia tractes , qui cum rei militari et reipublicae praesis , Episcopis ea praescribas , quae ad solos pertinent Episcopos .

Constantinus Magnus in concilio Niceno ( ut ait Ruffinus hist. l. ● . addit . Eusebio cap. 2. ) re●usavit ferre ju licium inter Episcopos . D●us ( inquit ) vos constituit sacerdotes , & nobis a d●o d ●ti isiis judices , & conveniens non est , ut homo judicet deos .

S●zomenus hist. l. 6. c. 7. Mihi ( inquit Ualentinianus senior ) qui sum in sorte plebis , fas non est talia negotia & ecclesiastica , ●erserutari ; sacerdotes , quorum ista curae funt , inter seipsos , quocunque voluerint loco , conveniant . Theodosius Junius epist. ad Fphesinum Synodum . Deputatus est Candidianus magnificus Comes strenu●rum domesticorum transire usque ad sanctissimam Synodum testram , ac in nullo quidem , quae facienda sunt , de piis dogmatibus qu●stiones ●ommunicare : illicitum namque est , eum qui non sit ex ord●●●anctorum Episcoporum , ecclesiasticis immisceri tractatibus . Gregorius Mag. l. 5. Epist. 25. Notum est piissimos dominos dicip●inam diligere , ordines servare , canones venerari , & in causis sa 〈◊〉 ●ese non immiseere .

Distin. 96. C. satis evidenter , illicitum est imperatorihus ecchsiasti ● s● immiscere tractatibus .

Constantius would not take on him to judge the Arrian cause , but conveened a Councell , and commanded them to judge according to the word : So saith Eusebius de vita Constant. l. 3. c. 10. ad Theodor. l. 5. c. 9. Neither can it be said that Constantine judged with the Synod as Emperour , as some affirme , for though it be true , yet he judged not in the Synod as Emperour , but as Episcoporum conservus as he nameth himselfe , and as Eusebius saith , de vita Constant. l. 3. c. 16. ipse tanquam unus e vestro numero , non recusabam . Now Constantine as Emperour was not a fellow-servant with Pastors or one of the number , but above them , as the annointed of the Lord ; but he judgeth with them , as one of their number , as a Christian having one faith , one baptisme , one Lord , with them ; and so as a member of the Church , and so saith he in that same place , Literarum divinitus inspiratarum testimonio res in quaestionem adductas dissolvamus . And let this be our first distinction .

Emperours of old defined in Synods , as Christian members Distinct. 1. of the Church , not as Emperours , for as Emperours they be politicke heads of the men of the Church . Gerardus Tom. 6. de Gerardus . Magist. polit. n. 175. pag. 586 , 587. who giveth also a nomotheticke power to Magistrates in matters ecclesiasticall , furnisheth us with an argument here , because the Magistrate is a principall member of the Church , and all the members of the Church are to judge and try the spirits , and to try all things , now this proveth well as a member of the Church , and so as a Christian he may judge , and that in a meere ecclesiastick way , as Pastors and Elders doth , as private Christians may doe , being called thereunto by the Church , though the ground be weake , for the Kingly power maketh not New , Tiberius and other Emperours , members of the Church , onely grace , faith , and communion with Christ , maketh Kings members of the invisible Church , and baptisme and profession of the faith , and not any earthly Prerogative of Scepter , or Crowne , maketh them members of the visible Church .

Our second distinction from Fathers , is , that Emperours have a Kingly power politicke to confirme , and adde their civill sanction Distinct. 2. to Church constitutions , but they have no power formally ecclesiasticke to define and make Church-lawes . So a a Augustin ad Bonisac . Comit . circa epist. 50. Quia vero etiam Rex est ser vit , Leges justa praecipientes , & contraria prohibentes , conventente rigore sanciend● , sicut servivit Rex Ninivitatum , universam civitatem ad placandum dominum compellendo . Augustine : as a man the King serveth the Lord , vivendo fideliter , by living the life of a sound beleever , and as a King he serveth the Lord , by adding the convenient vigour of a civill sanction to just Lawes — as the King of Ninive did , by compelling the men of Ninive to pacifie God . And when Gaudentius the Donatist objected that the Emperour could not take course with the Schism made in the Church by their separation , because God hath laid upon Prophets , not upon Kings , the Preaching of the word : Augustine b b August . l. 2. co●r . epist. Gaudentii . c. 26. quamdiu vos non tenetis ecclesia● , quam praenunciaverunt Piscatores , Apestoli plantaverunt , tam diu reges qui eam tenent , rectissime ad s●am curam indicant per●nere , ne ●os adversus eum rebelletis impune . answereth , not that Kings may either preach , or define controversies in the Church , but that , sinco Donatists separate from the Church , it should be the care of Kings to see , that none rebell against the Church of Christ . Hence I reason thus , no Synods ecclesiasticall can meddle with the blood and temporall lives of men , nor can they forbid the beliefe and profession of heresies and erroneous doctrine , or scandalls against pure discipline under the paine of bodily punishment , as banishment , imprisonment , heading or hanging . But Emperours and Kings , either in a Synod or out of a Synod , may lawfully forbid such things , and that by a Kingly power , therefore if Emperours in Synods make any Lawes of this kinde , they are not Synodicall , nor ecclesiasticall Lawes , nor doe they make such Lawes , jointly with the Church-Synod , as some teach , nor by any ecclesiastick power , for coactive power , and ecclesiasticall power , cannot be joyned together as one power , to make one and the same ecclesiasticall lawes . Let any judge then if the ancient Lawes of some Emperours were any other things , but civill and politick sanctions of Church-constitutions . And judge of this Law , which some call the ecclesiasticall determination of c c Imperat Constitut. ● . Heraclius the Emperour by the consent of Pope John , he ordained that there is n●●ther one nor two operations in Christ . Heraclius a Monothelite commanded this under the paine of civill punishment , as is certaine . But had Pope John as collaterall Judge with the Emperour in this , that same coactive power that the Emperour had ? I thinke none can say it . So d d In c●dice l. leg ●unctus populu● . c. le s●m . Trinit. three Emperours commanded all people to hold the doctrine of the Trinity , and that those who hold not this be heretickes . This is but a civill sanction of a Church Law . So e e C●d●ce leg . 4. Synod Chaicedenensis de ●●de Christiana justa cap●sitinnes a 〈◊〉 a ●●●●d 〈◊〉 , per nost●a decreta statuta sunt . Martianus commandeth that the decrees of the Councell of Chalcedon be established , and that no man dispute or call in question these decrees . This is clearely the Emperours civill ratification of Church-lawes : and f f Iustinian . Novell . 123. c. 32. Justinianus forbiddeth any publick service to be in the Church by laicks onely , in the absence of the Clergie , and g g Novell . 137. c. 6. commandeth the Bishops not to muttter in to themselves , but to speake in the administration of the Sacraments with a cleare and distinct voice . If Emperours did proceede any further , as some say that Theodosius deposed the Nestorian Bishops , though indeed he onely h h L. 3. de s●●● . tr●n . commanded them to be deposed , their deeds are not Lawes , a facto ad jus non valet consequentia . Papists here are in two extremities . For 1. they will not have Princes to meddle with Church-affaires , whereas by office they are Nurs-fathers in the Church . Charles the fift is rebuked by Paul the third , because he conveened councells for composing of dissentions in the Church , and he compareth him to Uzzah , who touched the Arke without warrant , as we may see i i Wolsius tom . 2 lect. moral . pag. 539. Wolsius . 2. Stapleton , Bellarmine , k k Bellarmin . l 3. de la●cis c. 17. and Papists will have them to be brutish Servants , to execute whatsoever the Pope and Councells shall decree , good or bad , without examination also ; as l l Suarez in opuscul . l. 3. de P●●mat . Sum●● Pontif c. 22. Suarez , the Councell of Paris , their n n D●s●●on . 96. si 〈◊〉 . Law saith , and o o D●st . 22. inc . Qu●ties 24. q. 1. Innocentius the first , and p p In cap●●e qu● di●●et . Gregory the seventh doe teach : Making Kings in their judgement slaves to the Pope and ' his determinations , and to have no light but from their vertuall Church , as the Moone hath all her light from the Sunne .

Our third distinction is , that the Magistrate as Magistrate , and a preserver of publicke peace , may doe some thing , when a Schisme and dissention is among the Church-men in a Synod . 1. In this case he may punish perturbers of peace , as Augustine answereth q q August . cont. epist. Gauden . l. ● . c. 26. Gaudentius the Donatist , and the separaters from the Church , in which case the Magistrate indirectly condemneth one of the parties , which the Church hath condemned : but there be many other cases of dissention in this case ; therefore when the Magistrate findeth the Synod divided in two parties equally ; or three , i● the corrupt part prevaile ; or foure , in the case of the Churches aberration in one particular fact : or five , if there be an universall apostasie of the whole representative Church : or sixe , an universall defection of both the representative and essentiall Church : all these being too casuall and of too frequent occurrence , one and the same answer cannot be given , and here be sundry subalterne distinctions considerable .

Hence our fifth Conclusion : when there is an equall rupture in the body , nothing extraordinary would be attempted , if ordinary wayes can be had : if Saul the ordinary Magistrate had at Gods Commandement killed Hagag , Samuel the Prophet should not have drawne his Sword , and therefore in this case the Magistrate would first seeke helpe from other Churches , as that r r Apollonius de jure Magist. ●oc . cit pag. 206. learned Apollonius saith . But if that cannot be conveniently had , as in a nationall Church it may fall out , then the Magistrate as a preserver of peace and truth , may command the sincerer part to conveene in a Synod , and doe their duty , as the good Kings of the people of God did : 2 Chron. 15. Asa gathered together a people who entered in Covenant to seeke the Lord God with all their heart , and layed an obligation of punishment to death on the rest , v. 12 , 13. and Jehoshaphat , 2 Chron. 23. 4. he layed charge on Hilkiah the High Priest , and the Priests of the second order , whom he knew to be better affected to the worke , to bring out the Vessels made for Baal ; which proveth that the King should put the sincerest to doe that , which in common belongeth to the whole , in which case of the erring of the most part of the Church , the Prince indirectly condemneth the erring part of the Synod , because it is his place to forbid and to punish with the sword , the transgressors of Gods Law . But because his power is accumulative , not privative , under that pretence hee hath not power to hinder the sincerer part to meet and determine according to the Word of God .

6. Conclusion . In the case of the prevailing of the corrupt part of the Church , or in the fourth case of the aberration of the Church in one particular , the King hath a regall power to punish the Canonists , if they shall decree in their Synod Popery , and hereticall doctrine , and so give to the Bride of Christ noysome and deadly milke ; the Prince as nursefather may punish the Canonists . 1. Because hee is a keeper of both Tables of the Law , and hath a royall power to inflict bodily punishment upon all sinnes , even committed , in foro exteriore ecclesiae , as the King may punish false teachers . 2. Because the Magistrates power is auxiliary & accumulative , as a tutor and nur●efather , who hath law to helpe the Pupill , and to adde to the inheriritance , but hath no Law nor power to take away any part of the inheritance from the Pupill ; Ergo , as a nursefather , hee is to helpe the Church of Christ , against the wicked Canons of the representative Church . If any object , then the King as King hath power to rescind and annull the ecclesiasticall Canons ; the contrary whereof that learned author of Altare Damascenum s s Didoclavius dad . Caldern ●●d in altars Damas●cnode commentatus ●egi●s , pa. 29 , 30. doth prove .

I answer , that learned and worthy author proveth that the Prince cannot annull the Church-Canons , and that the councell of Trent thought shame that the Pope should absolve any condemned by the Church-Canons ; and certainely the same power that maketh Canons should dissolve them ; but the Kings power cannot make Church-Canons , for it is a part of the ministeriall calling to make Canons , and therefore hee cannot annull and dissolve Canons : but some greater Kingly power is due to the King in the case of the Churches aberring , then in the case of the Churches right administration ; and as our Divines doe justly give to the Prince an extraordinary Kingly power in the case of universall apostasie of the Church , as Jehoshaphat , Hezekiah , Josiah , and other worthy reformers in the Church of the ●ewes , did warrantably use their Kingly power , when the Church-men were corrupted and negligent in their dutie ; so in a particular case of a particular error of the Synod , the King as King , may use his Kingly power in this fact , that is , secundum quid extraordinarie , for the King is oblieged as King to adde his accumulative power of a civill sanction to all just and n●cessary Church constitutions , and it the Canon or Church constitution bee wicked and popish , he is oblieged to deny his civill sanction , and not that onely , ( for hee that is not with Christ is against him ) but hee is to imploy his kingly power against such Canons , and so is to deliver the Church of God in that , and in denying his accumulative power to unjust Canons , hee addeth his kingly power accumulative to the true Church , in saving them from these unjust Canons .

2. Also it may bee objected , If the King by a regall and coactive power may annull and rescind unjust Canons , hee may by this coactive power make Canons , for it is that same power to make and unmake Canons .

I answer , if hee may annull unjust Canons , that is , liberate his subjects from civill punishment to bee inflicted for refusing obedience to such Canons , and for bid the practise of wicked Church constitutions under the paine of the sword ; It will not follow , that therefore hee may make Canons , but onely that hee may adde his civill sanction to just Canons . 2. Neither can the King properly annull the Canon , but onely deny to adde his civill authoritie for the execution of such Canons .

But thirdly , it is objected , that the King bath a judgement that such Canons are wicked and superstition ; the Church-mens judgement at the assembly of Glascow , Edenbrough , an . 1638 , 1639. is that such Canons are lawfull , edificative , and necessary , then is the King obliged as King to deny his royall sanction , and who shall bee Judge in the matter ?

If you say the Word of God , it satisfyeth not , because both the King , and the Synod , alledgeth the Word of God , as norm ● judicandi , a rule of judging , but the rule of judging is not formally the Judge , but wee uske who shall bee the visible ministeriall and vocall Judge under Christ , speaking in his owne Testament , for the King is a Politick and civill Judge , and the Church an Ecclesiasticall Judge .

I answer , this same is the question betwixt us and Papists anent the Judge of controversies , whether the Judge bee a Synod or the Scriptures ; and wee answer by a distinction , the Scripture is norm i judicandi . 2. Christ , the peremptory and infallible Judge speaking in his owne Word . 3. A Synod lawfully conveened , is a limited , ministeriall , and bounded visible Judge , and to bee beleeved in so farre as they follow Christ the peremptory and supreme Judge speaking in his owne Word . But wee deny that there is on earth any peremptory and in fallible visible Judge . But to come yet nearer ; if the King have sworne to that same religion which the Church doth professe , and so acknowledge and professe the reformed religion of that Church , hee must then acknowledge the lawfull officers of that Church to bee his ordinary teachers , and the lawfull ministers of the Church , and that they are both in a Synod , and out of the Synod , to preach , and to bee ministeriall definers of things contraverted , and that they shall first determine in an ecclesiasticall way according to Gods Word , and hee as King is to command them to determine according to Gods Word , under the paine of civill punishment , and the Kings civill and coactive way of judging is posterior and ratificator●e of the right and oxthodox ecclesiasticall determination , and Junius saith that the Magistrates judging politick , presupposeth the Church judging ecclesiasticall , going before ; and d d Calvinus inst●● . l. 4. c. 11. sect. 15. Calvin e e Amesius to n. 2 in Bellarm. 〈◊〉 at . c. 6. n. ● . and Amesius are cleare that in this case the Church is to cognosce of hee owne ecclesiasticall affaires . Ambrose writeth to the Emperor Valentinian , that none should judge of this cause which is ecclesiasticall as one said , but a Church-man , qui nec munere sit impar , ne●jure dissimilis . Gelasius the Pope inveigheth against Anastasius the Emperour , because hee confounded these two , civill and ecclesiasticall causes . But if the Emperour or King professe not the religion of the land , and repute it false , and if the religion bee indeed hereticall , then the Church is not constitute , and the case extraordinary ; but the truth is , neither the Kings judgement , as a certaine rule to the representative Church , nor the representative Churches judgement a rule to the King , but the Word of God the infallible rule to both . Judgement may crooke , truth cannot bow , it standeth still unmoveable like God the father of truth ; but in this case if both erre , ex cellently saith f f Junius ar● nad . in ●ellarm . de concil . l 1. c. 12. 〈◊〉 . 18. Desiciente conjunctione Magist 〈…〉 aliquid ecclesia extra ordine●n sace●● , q●●d ordina●ie non potest , & ●●ntra desiciente ecclesia a suo officio , potest magi●●●atus 〈◊〉 ordinein procurare , ut ecclesia ad 〈…〉 , ●d enim juris communis est , extraordinar●is mai●s remedia eti am extra ordinem adhiberi posse . Junius , the Magistrate erring the Church may do something extraordinarily , and t●e Church erring the Magistrate may do something also in an extraordinary way , as common equitie and mutuall law requireth that friends with mutuall tongues bicke the wounds of friends . Also fourthly , some say , they who make the King the head of the Church , acknowledge that the King doth not judge , except the matter be first defined in the Scriptures , and in the generall councells , yet they give a primacie spirituall in matters ecclesiasticall to the King , and therefore if the King as King may forbid the inacting of wicked Canons , hee determineth them to bee wicked , before the Synod have passed their judgement of them .

I answer , that learned g g Calderwood in 〈◊〉 Damas●en● , pag. 20. Calderwood saith indeed , the pretended Lords of high Commission have an act for them under h h Elizabeth stat. ● . ● . ● . Queene Elizabeth for this effect , but it is made for the fashion , for all errors and heresies are condemned in Scripture , but not onely should there bee a virtuall and tacit determination of matters ecclesiastick , which is undeniably in Scripture , and may bee in generall councells also , but also a formall Synodicall determination in particular must goe before the Princes determination in a constitute Church . The Prince may before the Synods determination exhort to the determination of what hee conceiveth is Gods will in his Word , but hee cannot judicially and by a Kingly power determine in an orderly way , what is to bee defined in a Synod , except hee infringe the Churches liberties , and judicially prelimit under the paine of civill punishments , the free voyces of the members of the Synod , which is indeed , an abuse of the authoritie of a nurs-father .

But fiftly , it may bee objected that hee may , in a thing that is manifestly evident by the Word of God to bee necessary truth , command by the power of the sword , that the Synod decree that , or this particular , so cleare in the Word , the contrary whereof being Synodically determined , hee may punish by the sword , and so hee may judicially predetermine some things before the S●nod passe their Synodicall act thereon , and if hee may predetermine judicially one thing , hee may predetermine all things .

I answer : what the King may judicially determine and pun●●h with the sword , that hee cannot judicially predetermine and command in any order that hee pleaseth , but in a constitute Church , whereof hee is a member and to bee taught , hee is to determine judicially in an orderly way , as a nurs-father .

But sixtly , it may bee objected , that if the King have a judiciall power by the sword to annull unjust acts , then hath hee a power to 〈◊〉 them , though hee abuse that power in making them , as unjust , and then hath hee a power to interpret Church acts , and to defend them ; 〈…〉 Law i i Lib. 22. si 〈◊〉 ● . de leg●●●s princ●p . saith , it is not same power to make Lawes , and to d●●●nd them , and interpret them : see k k Paraeus . Comment. in R ●● . 13. dul . 5. mappend p●● . 8. arg. 2. Paraeus .

I answer , the proposition is not universally necessary , except onely in civill matters , in the which , as the Prince who is absolute hath supreme authority to defend , and interpret civill lawes , so hath hee power to make them ; for if the Magistrate hath a supreme judiciall power to interpret Church-Lawes , hee is a minister of the Gospell in that case , and may by that same reason administer the Sacraments , so the argument is a just begging of the question . 2. Though the King have power in case of the Church aberration ( which is somewhat extraordinary ) it followeth not therefore , in ordinary , hee hath a nomothetick power to make Church-Lawes .

Also seventhly , it may bee objected , if the King in case of the Churches aberration , may by the sword rescind Church-Lawes , then may hee make a Law to rescind them : but those who a●firme that the King hath a sort of primacie and headship over the Church , say not that the King hath any power formally ecclesiasticall to make Lawes , as Ministers in a Synod do , but onely that hee hath a power to command any forme of externall worship , under the paine of bodily punishment , they say not that the King may preach , administrate the Sacraments , or excommunicate or inflict any Church-censures .

I answer , the transcendent power of Princesand their commissioners is not well knowne , for the authors ( saith l l Calderwood 〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Da●nas . pag. 36. Lance● . Andreas . Calderwood ) agree not among themselves ; but it is true in words , the author m m Tortur . torti . 95. dicimus regem gubernare ecclesiastica , sed non ecclesiastice . est Tortura torti , the Bishop of Eli denyeth in words ( if you have strong faith to beleeve him ) all spirituall headship over the Church , to the King , and n n Burbilius in vindic . Tortu a tc●ti . pa. 55. non dicit ( Ep. sc. Eliensis ) primatum spiritualem , sed primatum quoad spiritualia , de be ●i regibus omni jure . Burbillus also . But o o Hen. Salcobrigiensis in Becano . baculo pag. 140. Henric. Salcobrigiensis calleth the King primatem ecclesiae Anglicanae , the Primate of the Church of England and ●ges oleo sacro uncti , capaces sunt jurisdictionis spiritualis , because they are annointed with holy oyle , therefore are they capable of spirituall jurisdiction ; also may ( saith hee p p Pag. creat propria autoritate , by his owne authoritie , create Bishops and d●prive them . See what q q Calderwood in altar . damas pag. 14 , 15 , 16. & seq . Calderwood hath said , and excerped out of the writings of these men ; the King as King , 1. convocateth Synods ; 2. defineth ecclesiasticall canons ; 3. giveth to them the power of an ecclesiasticall Law ; 4. executeth Church Canons ; 5. appointeth commissioners , who in the Kings authoritie and name , may try heresies and errors in doctrine , punish non-conformitie to Popish ceremonies , may confine , imprison , banish Ministers ; 6. descerne excommunication and all Church censures , and use both the swords ; 7. relax from the power and censures of all ecclesiastick Lawes , give dispensations , annull the censures of the Church , upon causes knowne to them , give dispensations against Canons , unite or separate Parish Churches , or diocesan Churches ; and by a mixt power partly coactive and civill , partly of jurisdiction and spirituall , the King may doe in foro externo , in the externall court of Church discipline , all and every act of discipline , except hee cannot preach , baptize , or excommunicate .

And whereas Cartwright saith , when a lawfull Minister shall agree upon an unlawfull thing , the Prince ought to stay it ; and if Church ministers shew themselves obstinate , and will not bee advised by the Prince , they prove themselves to be an unlawfull Ministery , and such as the Prince is to punish with the sword . O but , saith hee r r Survey of discipl c. 23. pa. 262 , 263. the author of the Survey , how shall the Prince helpe the matter ? shall be compell them to conveene in a Synod , and retract their mind ? but they will not doe this . 2. By what authoritie shall the Prince doe this ? even by extraordinary authority , even by the same right that David did eate of the Shew-bread , if by ordinary authority the Prince would doe it , yet doe you resist that authority also .

Answ. Though the Prince had not externall force to compell Church-men to decree in their Synods things equall , holy , ju● , and necessary , yet it followeth not that the King as King hath not Gods right , and lawfull power to command and injoyne them to doe their dutie ; force and Law differ much , as morall and physicall power differ much . 2. If they decree things good , lawfull and necessary , the Prince hath a power given him of God to ratifie , confirme , and approve these by his civill sanction , but hee hath no power ordinary to infringe , or evert what they have decreed . 3. And if the Church bee altogether uncorrigible and apostate , then wee say as followeth .

7. Conclution . When the representative Church is universally apostaticall , then may the Prince use the helpe of the Church essentiall of found beleevers , for a reformation , and if they also bee apostatick , ( which cannot be , except the Lord utterly have removed his candlestick ) wee see not what hee can doe , but heare witnesse against them , but if there bee any secret seeker of God , in whose persons the essence of a true Church is conserved . The King by a royall power , and the Law of charitie is oblieged to reforme the land , as the godly Kings , with a blessed successe have hitherto done , Asa , J●siah , Jehoshaphat , 〈◊〉 , in which case the power of reformation , and of performing many acts , of due belonging to the Church officers , are warrantably performed by the King as in a diseased body , in an extraordinary manner power recurreth from the members to the ●●●●tick head and Christian Prince , who both , as a King , 〈◊〉 ●● , in an authoritative way is oblieged to do more then ord●●●y , and as a Christian member of the Church , in a charitative and common way , is to care for the whole body .

8. Conclusion . The influence of the Princes regall power in making constitutions is neither solitary , as if the Prince his 〈…〉 could doe it ; nor is it 2. collaterall , as if the Prince and Church with joynt concurrence of divers powers did it ; nor is 3. as some flatterers have said , so eminently spirituall as the consultation and counsell of Pastors , for light onely hath influence in Churches Canons , but the Princes power hath onely the power to designe , so as the Canon hath from the Prince the power of a Law in respect of us . The Kings influence in Church Canons ( as wee thinke ) is as a Christian antecedent , to exhort that the Lord Jesus bee served ; 2. concomitant , as a member of the Church to give a joynt suffrage with the Synod ; 3. consequent , as a King to adde his regall sanction to that which is decreed by the Church according to Gods Word , or otherwise to punish what is done amisse .

Now that the Prince as a solitary cause , his alone defineth Church matters and without the Church , and that by his ordinary Kingly power , wanteth all warrant of the Word of God . 2. The King might have given out that constitution , Act. 15. It seemeth good to the holy Ghost , and to us , which in reason is due to the ministeriall function , for these are called Act. 16. 4. the decrees of the Apostles and Elders , not the decrees of the King or Emperour , either by Law or fact . 3. Christ ascending to heaven gave officers requisite for the gathering of his Church , and the edification of the body of Christ , but amongst these in no place we finde the King . 4. If this bee true , heathen Kings have right to make Church-Canons , though they bee not able , and bee not members of the Christian Church , and so without , and not to bee judged by the Church , nor in any case censured , Matth. 18. 17. 1. Cor. 5. 11. and this directly is a King Pope , who giveth Lawes by a Kingly power to the Church , and yet cannot bee judged by the Church . Burhillus and Thomson acknowledge that a Heathen King is primat and head of the Church ; and must hee not then have power aciu primo , to make Lawes , and to feede the flocke by externall government ? But Lancel . Andreas , Biship of Ely s s Episco . Fliens . Tortur . terti pag. 39. in Ethnico e●st tera potestas temporalis , idque sinc ordine ad potestatem ecclesiasticam . item Rex quivis own de Ethnico Christianus fit , non perdit terrenum ju● , sed acquirit jus nov●●● . Itidem own de Christiane fit sicut Ethnicus , vigore sententiae , ami●●● novum jus quod acquisiverat , sed retinet terrenum jus in temporalibus , quod sacrat illi proprium , priusquam Christianus fieret . Tortura torti saith that a heathen King hath a temporall Kingly power , without any relation to a Church power , and when hee is made of a Heathen King a Christian King , bee acquireth a new power . But the question is , if this new power be a new kingly power , or if it be a power Christian to use rightly his former kingly power ; if the first bee true ; then 1. as learned Voetius t t Voetius de potest . ecclesi . tract . and good reason saith , hee was not a King before hee was a Christian , for the essence of the Kingly power standeth in an indivisible point , and the essence of things admit not of degrees . 2. Then should hee bee crowned over againe , and called of God to bee a Christian King , and so hee was not a King before , which is against Scripture ; for Nebuc●adnezzar was to bee obeyed , and prayed for as King by the people of God , at Jeremiahs expresse commandement . 3. So a pagan husband becomming a Christian should by that same reason acquire a new husband-right over his wife ; contrary to the 1 Cor. 7. 13 , 14 , 15. the Captains , or Masters , who of heathens become Christians , should obtaine a new right and power over their Souldiers and Servants , and they should come under a new oath and promise to their Captaines and Masters . 4. If the heathen King have onely temporall Kingly power , he had no power as King to take care that God were worshipped according to the dictates of the Law of nature , and Law of nations , & had power to punish , perjury , Sodomie , parricid , as sins against the Law of nature , and the heathen King should not by office and Kingly obligation bee oblieged to be a keeper and a defender of the tables of the Law of nature , which is against all sense . But if the power which a heathen King becomming a Christian King acquireth , be onely a Christian power to use for Christ the Kingly power that hee had while hee was a heathen King , then a heathen King , jure regali , by a regall right is the head of the Church , though hee bee a Woolfe and a Leopard set over the redeemed flocke of Christ ; yea though hee bee the great Turke , hee is a Pastor called of God & the Church , though for his moralls , hee bee a Woolfe and a hireling , yet by office and Law , hee is a feeder of the flocke . Talis est aliquis , qualem ius offi●ii requirit . And certainly it is impossible that a heathen King can bee a member of the true Church , hee wanting both faith and profession , which doe essentially constitute a Church-membership : if it bee said hee is ex officio , by his office a member , that is nothing else but hee ought to bee a member of the Church , so all mankind are members of the Church , for they are oblieged to obey Christ , and submit to him upon the supposall of the revealed Gospel , and the heathen King is no otherwise a member by the obligation regall that layeth upon him as King ; yea when the Gospel is preached , and the heathen King converted to the faith , hee is not a member of the Christian Church , as a King , but as a converted professor , and so Christianitie maketh him not a Kingly head of the Church , but what essentially constituteth him a King , that also constituteth him a Christian King ; Christianitie is an accidentall thing undoubtedly to the office of a King .

2. They doe no lesse erre , who make the King and the Church officers collaterall Judges in Church matters , so as with joynt and co●quall influence they should bee Canon makers . 1. Because perfect Synods are and have beene in the Apostolick Church without any influence collaterall of Christian Magistrates , as being against their will and mind , who were Rulers of the people , as Acts 1. 14 , 15. Acts 2. 46 , 47. Acts 4. 1 , 2. Acts 6. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. Acts 15. 6 , 7 , 8. &c. 2. What the Church decreeth in the name of Christ , standeth valid and ratified in Heaven and Earth , Matth. 18. 17 , 18. Joh. 20. 21 , 22. whether the Magistrate assent to it or not , so that he hath not a negative voyce in it by any ecclesiastick power , for Christ saith not , What yee bind on earth , in my name , shall be bound in Heaven , except the Magistrate deny , as a collaterall Judge , his suffrage ; Now if he be a collaterall Judge by divine institution , no Church act should be valid in Christs Court without him , as excommunication not in the name of Christ , or performed by those who are not the Church , but onely in civill offices , is not excommunication ; also what ever the Magistrate doth , as the Magistrate , he doth it by the power of the sword . Ergo , if he take vengeance on the ill doer , as his office is , Rom. 13. 3. 4. his acts are ratified in Heaven , though the Church as collaterall Judges say not Amen thereunto . 3. The coactive power of the King , and the Ecclesiasticall power of the Church , differ as carnall and spirituall , spirituall and not spirituall , of this world , and not of this world , and are not mixed by the Word oft , as Joh. 18. 36. 2 Cor. 10. 3 , 4. 2 Tim. 2. 4. and therefore it in one and the same Church constitution , the King and the Church be joynt and coequall Judges and joynt definers , the constitution must both be injoyned under the paine of bodily punishment , which the Church , whose weapons are not carnall , cannot command , and under the paine of Church censures , as suspension , rebukes , and excommunication the King must command . Now the Canon should neither be an Ecclesiasticall , nor yet a civill Canon , but mixt , for the Canon makers injoyneth with powers and paines which are not due unto them , nor in their power . Now to make a Law ( saith w w 〈◊〉 . F●l 〈◊〉 . ●● . 53. Feild ) is to prescribe ●●aw under the paine , which the Law-maker hath power to inflict : but neither hath the Church the power of the sword , 2 Cor. 10. 3 , 4. Joh. 18. 36. nor hath the King , by Gods ●aw , the power of excommunication . See x x 〈…〉 22. Calderwood . And one and the same Law should be backed both by a carnall and worldly power , and not by a worldly and carnall power . 3. The King as King must have a mixt power , halfe kingly , ●●● halfe ecclesiastick , and by the same reason , the Church must have a mixt power , partly Ecclesiasticall and partly civill , and this were to confound the two kingdomes , the kingdome of this world , and the spirituall kingdome of Christ , which is not of this world , Joh. 18. 36. condemned by y y Anselm● 〈◊〉 Matth. 26. Anselm● , and a a Hilarius ●●ntra 〈…〉 b●pist 40 Hilarius , and b b Bernard b●p●st . ad Fu●en . Bernard , and c c 〈…〉 Augustin . Put if they say , that every one hath their influence partialitate causae , non eff●cii , according to the nature of causes , then is not one and the same Church constitution from both King and Church . See d d 325. 3. 6. Apollonius . But the Kings Canon is civill , the Churches Ecclesiasticall , and every one of them without another , perfect in their one kind . See e e G●●son . Bucer de 〈…〉 . pag. 9● . what the learned Gerson , Bucer , and f f Amesius in 〈…〉 . de 1● . 2. ● . 1. Amesius saith , further to adde light to this point .

Those who maintaine a third , that the Church Canons hath all the power of being Church Lawes from the King , and all Ecclesiasticall and oblieging authority from him , and that they have onely some helpe of consulting power from the Church , are grosser Divines . See g g ●●an Weem●s de 〈◊〉 . de 〈…〉 7 pag. 88. 89. seq. Joan. Weemes , for so the King is the onely Canon maker , and the Church-men giveth advice onely , as h h The Kings 〈◊〉 for the Service B●ok of 〈◊〉 land , A● . 1636. the Kings Proclamation speaketh , having taken 〈◊〉 counsell of our Clergy , we command such a worship , & ● . and so the Canon runneth , it seemeth good to the holy Ghost and the King as the Canon speaketh , Acts 15. 2. the King is made an Ecclesiasticall and ministeriall Pr●acher to expone publikely the Scriptures to the Church of God , for all lawfull Church Canons are but Ecclesiasticall expositions of Gods Word , and so the Emperours and Christian Kings are the onely lawfull Canon makers and definers in Oecumenick Councels , and Bishops , and Pastors , and Doctors have all a meere power of advising and counselling , which certainely all Christians on earth sound in the faith , except women , have . O whither are all the tomes of the Councels Oecumenick , nationall , and provinciall , evanished unto ? 3. Kings justly by this are made Popes , and more then Popes , for Kings onely have a definitive voyce in councells , whereas Papists give a definitive voyce to all the lawfull members of the councell , no lesse then to the Pope . i i Wee 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Daplex 〈◊〉〈◊〉 est , un● 〈◊〉 & . 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 , alia 〈◊〉 s●u imperialis in senatu , illa pastorum , haec p●incipis est . Weemes hath a distinction to save the Kings invading the Church-mens place , while as hee giveth to Pastors a ministeriall interpretation of Scripture in the Pulpit , and to the King a decretive and imperiall power of interpreting Scripture in the Senat. But 1. there is no exposition of the word at all imperiall , but onely ministeriall by the Word of God , except that imperiall interpretation , that the Pope usurpeth over the consciences of men , and this is as k k Bancroft s●●na● Pauli cruce● . 1589. p 1. 70 Bancroft said , that the King had all the honors , dignities and preheminencies of the Pope , as l l Calderwood in altar . Damas. pag. 4. Calderwood observeth , and yet Edward the sixth , and Edward the eighth would neither of them take so much on them . What difference betwixt a Sermon made by the King in the Senat , and the Pastor in the Pulpit ? It is that same word of God preached ; only the Kings is imperiall , and so must bee in his owne as King , the Pastors ministeriall , in the name of Christ ; the distance is too great . The administration of the Sacraments may be imperiall due to the King also , as a pastorall administration is due to the Pastors 4. In the government of Church there is nothing set downe of the King , but of Pastors , to feede the flocke , Act. 20. 28 , 29. to edifie the body of Christ , Ephes. 4. 11. to rule the house of God , 1 Tim. 3. 2 , 3 , 4. 16. to feede the sheepe and Lambs of Christ , John 21. 14 , 15 , 16. and alwayes this is given to Pastors and Elders . I know that Kings are nurs-fathers , to feed , edifie , and watch over the Church , causatively , by causing others so to doe ; but this will not content the formalists , except the King command and prescribe the externall worship of God .

Tooker , Bancroft , Whitegift , La●celot Andreas , Salcobrigiensis have a maine distinction here : That Pastors and Elders rule the Church , as it is an invisible body , by the preaching of the word and administration of the Sa●raments , and of this government the foresaid places speake : but as the Church is a politick visible body , the government thereof is committed to the King . m m Bancroft pag. 48. Bancroft said all the externall government of the Church is earthly , and W●i●e●gyft and Bancroft two grosse Divines made for the court , say t●e externall government of the Church , because externall , is ●●spi●●tuall , and not a thing belonging to Christs externall kingdome , ( ●aith Bil●●n : ) but this is , 1 false , 2. Popish , 3. Anabaptisticall , 4. ●yrannicall .

False , 1. Because externall and vocall preaching , and a visible administration of the Sacrament in such an orderly way , as Christ hath instituted , is an externall ruling of Church members according to the ●aw of Christ as King , an externall ordaining of the worship , is an externall ordering of the worshippers according to the acts of worship thus ordered , as sense teacheth us : but the externall ordaining of the worship , to preach , this , not this , to celebrate in both kinds , by prayer and the words of institution , and not in one kind onely , is an externall ordering of Gods worship : therefore as Kings cannot administrate the Sacraments , nor preach , so neither can they have the externall government of the Church in their ●ands . 2. The feeding of the flocke by Pastors set over the Church by the holy Ghost , Act. 20. 28. includeth the censuring by discipline , even the grievous Woolves entring in , not sparing the flocke , but drawing disciples after them , vers. 29 , 30 , 31. and therefore Pastors as Pastors are to watch , and to try those who say they are Apostles 〈◊〉 not , but doe lie , R●vel . 2. 2. by discipline ; so this externall ●e●ding is externall governing committed to Pastors , whereas inward governing is indeed proper to Christ the head of the Church . 3. What ? doe not the Epistles to Timothy containe comman dements about externall government to bee kept invi●●able by Timothy , not as a King I hope , but as a Pastor , even 〈◊〉 the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ , 1 Tim. 6. 14. and this taketh away that poore shif● , that the externall government of the Church , as n n pag. 65. & 304. Tookerus saith , was in the Apostles hands , so long as persecuting Magistrates were over the Church . but now , when the Magistrates are Christians , the case is changed , but the government of all su●● as Timothy is , must bee visible , externall , and obvious to men , as 1 Tim. 2. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. 3. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. ● . 16. 1 Tim 5. 9. 1 Tim. 5. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22. 2 Tim. 2. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4. 2 Tim. 3 5. all which must bee kept untill the comming of Christ , 1 Tim. 5. 21. 1 Tim. 6. 13. 2 Tim. 4. 1 , 2. 4. If externall government were in the Kings power , then were it his part to rebuke publikely , to excommunicate , and to lay on hands upon the Timothies of the Church ; all which are denied by the formalists , and are undoubtedly the Churches part , as the Church , Matth. 18. 17 , 18. 1 Tim. 5. 19 , 20 , 21 , 22 , 1 Tim. 3. 14. 1 Tim. 1. 20. 1 Cor. 5. 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. 5. o o Parker . de polit. eccl. l 1. c. 7. Parker proveth well that the keyes are Christ as Kings ruling in word and discipline .

2. This is popish , for so doth the Papists teach , as p p Stapleton de princip doctrinal . l. 6. c 16 Stapleton and q q Becanus 10. 5. Opise cont. Spalat. l. 1. de repub . christi . c. 4. Becanus , that the Pope , quo ad externum infiuxum , according to externall influence of visible government is head of the Church , and Christ according to the internall influence of the spirit is the head of the invisible body of Christ , and here the King is installed in that externall government , out of which our Divines by Scriptures have extruded the Pope , which is a notable dishonor done to Kings ; and as r r Parkerus de politeia eccles. l. 1. c. 6. Parkerus observeth . s s Raynold . collat. cum Hartio . c 1. divis . 2. Joan. Raynoldus answereth that , from two offices of the head , which is to give life and influence of motion to the members , and also to guide and moderate the actions externall of the body , wee cannot make two heads ; and because the King hath some civill government about the Church , wee cannot make two heads over the Church , Christ one , and the King another under him .

3. This is Anabaptisticall ; for because the visible government of the Church is externall , wee are not to cut off all necessitie of the ministery to feed and rule with ecclesiasticall authority , and because the Prince is gifted and a Christian , to give all to him , for a calling there must bee from God , for the King to governe the Church of Christ by Lawes , and prescribing externall worship therein , for Christ hath left , Ephes. 4. 1 Cor. 12. 1 Tim. 3. men to bee feeders and governours of his Church by office , whose it is to bee answerable for soules , Heb. 13. 18.

4. It is tyrannicall , because it putteth power into the Magistrates hand , to take from the Church , that inbred and in●rinsecall power of externall and visible government over her selfe and members , which all civill incorporations by instinct of nature have , and the Magistrate , as such , not being a member of the Church hath a headship , even being a heathen Magistrate , over the redeemed body of Christ . 2. By this reason , the Lord Jesus as King hath no Pastors in his name to use the ●●ves of his kingdom , by binding and loosing ; for discipline being an externall thing ( say they ) is not a part of Christs kingly power , but the King as Christs civill vicar hath this power : but I say all acts of Christ as hee is efficacious by the Gospel to gaine soules , are acts of Christ as powerfull by the Scepter of his Word , and those who are his instruments to exercise these acts are subordined to him as King of the Church , but Church-men by an externall ecclesiasticall power delivering to Satan , and externally and visibly casting out of the Church , that the spirit may bee saved in the day of the Lord , are instruments subordined to Christ , who is efficacious to save spirits by excommunication , and to gaine soules by rebukes . t t Greg. Magnus in Psalme pen●tent . Gregorius Magnus saith , those to whom Christ hath given the Keyes of his kingdome , by these hee judgeth , and why is this word the word of his kingdome ? the Scepter of his kingdome ? the sword that commeth out of his mouth , by which hee governeth his subjects , and subdueth nations , so called ? but because Christs kingly power is with those , whom hee hath made dispensators of his Word .

9. Conclusion . Nor hath the King power of ordaining Pastors , or depriving them , or of excommunication . 1. All these are acts of spirituall and ecclesiasticall power , 1 Tim. 3. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3. Act. 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5 , 6. and flow from the power of the keyes , given by Christ to his Apostles and their successors , Matth. 28. 18 , 19 , 20. Mark . 16. 14 , 15 , 16. Joh. 20. 21 , 22 , 23. Hence I argue , to whom Christ hath given out his power , as King of the Church , Matth. 28. 18 , 19. power of the keyes , Matth. 18. 18. Matth. 16. 19. and a commandement to lay hands , and ordaine qualified men , for the ministry , and those who by the holy Ghosts direction practised that power by ordaining of Elders , these onely have right to ordaine Elders , and their successors after them : but Apostles and their successors onely are those to whom Christ gave that power , and who exercised that power , as the places prove .

2. Ordination and election both in the primitive Church of the Apostles was done by the Church , and consent of the multitude , Act. 1. Act. 6. 2 , 3 , 4. 5 , 6 , &c. but the civill Magistrate is neither the Church , nor the multitude .

3. Ordination is an act formally of an ecclesiasticall power , but the Magistrate as the Magistrate , hath no ecclesiasticall power ; Ergo , hee cannot exercise an act of ecclesiasticall power .

4. If ordination were an act of Kingly power , due to the King as King ; then 1. The Apostles and Elders usurped in the Apostolick Church the office and throne of the King , and that behoved to bee in them an extraordinary and temporary power , but wee never find rules tying to the end of the world , given to Timothies and Elders of the Church anent the regulating of extraordinary and temporary power , that were against the wisedome of God to command Timothy to commit the Word to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , as 2 Tim. 2. 2. and to set downe the qualification of Pastors , Elders , Doctors , and Deacons to Timothy , as a Church man , with a charge to keepe such commandements unviolable to Christs second appearing ; if Timothy and his successors in the holy ministry were to bee denuded of that power , by the incoming of Christian Magistrates . 2. The King by the laying on of his hands , should appoint Elders in every citie , and the spirits of the Prophets should bee subject to the King , not to the Prophets , as the word saith , 1 Cor. 14. 32.

5. Those who have a Church power to ordaine and deprive Pastors , must by office try the doctrine , and be able to 〈…〉 sayers , and to finde out the Foxes in their hereticall wayes , and to rebuke them sharpely , that they may bee sound in the faith : but this by office is required of Pastors , and not of the King , as is evident , 1 Tim. 3. 2. 2 Tim. 2. 2● . Tit. 1. 9 , 10 , 11. It is not enough to say , it is sufficient that the King try the abilities of such as are to bee ordained , and the bontgates of hereticall spirits to bee deprived , by Pastors and Church men , their counsell and ministery , and upon their testimony the King is to ordaine , and make , or exauthorate , and unmake Pastors ; because 1. so were the King a servant by office , to that which Church men shall by office determine , which they condemne in our doctrine , which wee hold in a right and sound meaning . 2. He who by office is to admit to an office , and deprive from an office , must also by office , bee obliged to bee such as can try what the office requireth of due to bee performed by the officer ; nor is it enough which some say , that the ignorance of the King in civill things taketh not away his legall power to judge in civill things , and by that same reason , his ignorance in Church matters taketh not away his power to judge in ecclesiasticall matters , for I doe not reason from gifts and knowledge that is in the King simply , but from gifts which ●x●fficio , by vertue of his Kingly office is required in him . It is ●●ue as King hee is oblieged to read continually in the book of the Law of God ▪ Deut. 17. and to know what is truth , what here●ie , in so fa●re as hee commandeth that Pastors preach sound doctrine , and that as a Judge hee is to punish heresie . Some say hee is to have the knowledge of private discretion , as a Christian , that hee punish not blindly . I thinke hee is to know judicially as a King , 1. Because hee hath a regall and judiciall knowledge of civill things , even of the major proposition and not of the assumption and fact onely . Ergo , seeing hee is by that same kingly power to judge of treason , against the Crown & the civill State , by which he is to judge of heresie , & to punish heresie , it would seeme as King hee is to cognosce in both , by a kingly power , both what is Law , and what is fact . 2. Because the judgement of private discretion , common to all Christians , is due to the King as a Christian , not as a King : but the cognition that the King is to take of heresie and blasphemy , whether it bee heresie or blasphemy , that the Church ●●●●eth heresie and blasphemy , is due to the King as King , because hee is a civill Judge therein , and if the Church should call Christs doctrine blasphemy , Caesar and his deputie Pontius Pilat , as Judges civill , are to judge it truth . Neither would I ●●i●●●ly here contend ; for whether the Kings knowledge of herese in the major proposition bee judiciall , or the knowledge of discretion onely , as some say , wee agree in this against Papist● , that the King is not a blind servant to the Church , to punish what the Church calleth heresie , without any examination or tryall ▪ but though the Kings knowledge of heresie in the proposition and in Law , bee judiciall and kingly , yet because hee is to cognosce onely in so farre as hee is to compell and punish with the sword , not by instructing and teaching . It would not hence follow that hee is to make Church constitutions as King , but onely that hee may punish those who maketh wicked constitutions , because the Canon maker is a ministeriall teacher , the King as King may command that hee teach truth , and hee may punish hereticall teaching , but as King he is not a teacher , either in Synod or Senate , in Pulpit or on the Throne ; now if the King by office ordaine Pastors , and deprive them , by office hee is to know who are able to teach others , a●d must bee able also to stop the mouthes of the adversaries , and to rebuke them sharpely , that they may bee sound in the faith , and this is required in Titus , Ch. 1. 5 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13. as a Pastor , and as an ordainer of other Pastors ; therefore that which is required of a Pastor by his office , must also bee required to bee in the King by his office .

6. It is admirable that they give to Kings power to deprive ministers , but with these distinctions . 1. He may not discharge them to preach and administer the Sacraments , but to preach and administer the Sacraments in his kingdome , or dominions , because the King hath a dominion of places . 2. Hee may discharge the exercise of the ministery ; but hee cannot take away the power of order given by the Church . 3. Hee may deprive ( say some ) by a coactive and civill degradation , because the supreme magistrate may conferre all honours in the Christian common-wealth , Ergo , hee may take them away againe , but hee cannot deprive by a canonicall and ecclesiasticall degradation . 4. Hee may caus●tively deprive , that is , compell the Church to deprive one whom he judgeth to bee an heretick , and if the Church refuse , hee may then in case of the Churches erring , and negligence , as King deprive himselfe .

But I answer , the King as King hath dominion civill of places and times , as places and times , but not of places as sacred in use , and of times as sacred and religious : for his power in Church matters being accumulative , not privative , hee cannot take away a house dedicated to Gods service , no more then hee can take away maintenance allotted by publick authority , upon Hospitalls , Schooles , Doctors and Pastors . God hath here a sort of proprietie of houses and goods as men have . Places as sacred abused are subject to regall power , hee may inhibit conventions of hereticks . 2. The Apostles might preach in the Temple , though civill authoritie forbid them . 3. Kings are as much Lords of places as sacred and publick , as they have a dominion of civill places , in respect the King may be coactive power hinder that false and hereticall doctrine bee preached , either in publick , or private places , for this hee ought to doe as a preserver of both tables and a beare of the Sword for the good of Religion ; and if they may command pure doctrine to bee preached , and sound discipline to be exercised , they may command the same to bee done in publick places .

The second distinction is not to purpose . 1. To discharge the exercise of a ministery ( saith u u Alta● Da 〈◊〉 pag. 23. 24. Calderwood ) is a degree of suspension , and suspension is an ecclesiasticall degree to the censures of excommunication , and therefore the King may as well excommunicate , and remit and retaine sinnes , ( which undoubtedly agreeth to the Apostles , ) as hee can suspend . 2. As for taking away the power of order , it is a doubt to formalists , if the Church can doe that at all , seeing they hold Sacraments administred by ministers justly deprived to bee valid ; Ergo , they must acknowledge an indeleble character in Pastors , which neither King nor Church can take away . If then the King deprive from the exercise , hee must simpliciter deprive , by their grounds it is weake that they say , the King may deprive from the exercise of a ministry within his owne dominions ; for ( saith Calderwood x x Alta● Damas● pag. 2● . they all know well that the King hath not power to deprive men from the exercise of the holy ministery , in ether forraine Kingdomes . For the third way of deprivation , it hath a double meaning also . 1. If the meaning bee , that as the King by a regall and coactive power may take away all honours , either civill or ecclesiasticall , as hee giveth all honours , then this way of depriving Ministers cannot bee given to the King , for the King may give and take away civill honours , for reasonable causes , according to the Lawes . But in ecclesiasticall honours there bee three things . 1. The appointing of the honour of the office to bee an Ambassadour of Christ . 2. To give the true foundation and reall ground of a Church honour , that is , gifts and gracious abilities for the calling , neither of these two doe come either from King or Church , or from mortall men , but onely from Jesus Christ , who ascending on high gave gifts unto men , and appointeth both office , and giveth grace for to discharge the office . Yea since morall philosophy maketh honor to bee praemium 〈◊〉 , a reward of vertue ; the King doth not give that which is the soundation of honour civill , for civill vertue is a grace of God but in Church honour there is a third , to wit , a de●●●nation of a qualified man , for the sacred office of the ministry , and an ordination by the imposition of hands used in the Apostolick Church , Act. 6. 6. Act. 13. 3. Act. 14 23. 1 Tim. 4 14. 1 Tim. 5.22 Whether imposition of hands bee essentiall to ordination , or not , I disput not , it is apostolick by practise , yet there is something ecclesiasticall , as praying of Pastors , and an ecclesiasticall designation of men , or the committing of the Gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , 2 Tim. 2. 2. 1 Tim. 5. 22. No Scripture can warrant that the King ordaine Pastors by publick praving , by laying on of hands , or ecclesiasticall blessing , or by such an ordination , as is given to Timothy , and the Elders of the Church , Acts 13. 3. Acts 14. 23. Tit. 1. 5,6 . 7,8 9. 1 Tim. 4. 14. 1 Tim. 5. 22. 2 Tim. 2. 2. If any say the King hath a publick and regall power in ordaining of Ministers , and so in d●priving them , or a mixt power , partly regall , partly ecclesiasticall , as hee is a mixt person , and the Church hath their way of purely and unmixt ecclesiasticall calling or ordaining of Ministers , or the Church and the Magistrate both doth elect and choose the man , yet so that he is not elected without the consent of the King or Magistrate in the Kings roome .

I answer , many things are here to be replyed . 1. That the King who may be borne an heire to an earthly Kingdome , is also borne and by nature a mixt person , and halfe a Minister of the Gospell , is against Gods word ; ministers in whole , or in part , are made so of God , not so borne by nature : in Aaron● Priestha●d men by birth came to a sacred office , but that is done away now in Christ . 2. With as good reason may the King preach and administer the Sacraments , as a mixt person , as he may ordaine , by ecclesiasticall blessing , imposition of hands , ecclesiasticall designation any person to the Ministery , that same auth nity of Christ which said to Timoth , Lay hands suddainly 〈◊〉 man , said also to him , 2 Tim. 2. 15. Study to be approved unto 〈◊〉 , a workeman that needeth not to be ashamed , dividing the word right ; that is , both ordaining of Ministers , and pastorall preaching of the Word , or pastorall acts flowing from an ecclesiasticall power . How then can the one be given to the King by vertue of that same mixt power ? especially seeing baptizing it directly called 1 C●r . 1. 17. a lesse principall worke of the ministery then preaching . It it be said , as ordination is performed by the King , is not an ecclesiasticall action , but civill , or mixt , partly civill , partly ecclesiasticall .

I answer : by that reason , if the King should preach and administrate the Sacraments , these actions should not be called ecclesiasticall actions , and Uzzah's touching the Arke , should not be called an action by office incumbent to the Levites only ; and it might be said , the person being civill , the actions are civill . And Uzziah's burning of incense upon the Altar of incense , was not a Priestly act , but an act of a mixt power , he 2 Ch●on . 26. 10 , 17. was partly a King , and partly a Priest , who did performe the action , but he was a Priest by sinfull usurpation in that action , as we know . 2. This answer is a begging also of the question .

2. Whereas it is said that the Church ordainech Pastors , and the King also , but divers wayes : the one by a regall power , the other by me el●siasticall power .

I answer : this is spoken to make the people , ad saciendum populum , for ejusdem potestatis est , ( saith the Law ) constituere & desti●●ere , it is the same power to ordaine and to destroy . The high-Commission by the Kings authority doth deprive Ministers , without so much as the knowledge of the Church . If then the King as King may deprive ministers without the notice of the Church , then may the King as King also ordaine Pastors without the notice of the Church . For the action of the instruments as such , is more principally the actions of the principall cause . 3 Election of a Pastor is farre different from ordination of a Pastor : the whole multitude as Christians have voyces in the election of a Pastor , and so hath the King or his Magistrate , as a part and member of the Church , but this giveth no negative voice to the Magistrate in election , but ordination is not done by all the multitude , it is a worke of authority done onely by the Church-officers . 4. The coactive and civill degradation , must have also correspondent thereunto a coactive and civill ordination of Pastors . Now I ask what is a coactive ordination . If it be the Kings royall and civill authority , commanding that the Church officers ordaine Pastors at Christs commandement ; This we deny not , they fight with a shadow or a night ghost ; not against us , who contend for this . But if they meane a coactive degradation by the Sword , in banishing , imprisoning , yea and for just causes , punishing Ministers to death with the Sword , this indirect deprivation we doe not deny . But so the King depriveth a man from being a Minister , when he is beheaded , or hanged , or banished for civill crimes , no other wayes , but as he depriveth a man from being a Fashioner , a Sai●●r , a Plower , a Souldier , or a Father to his owne barnes , a husband to his owne wife , for when the man is beheaded or hanged , by the sword of the Magistrate , he is d●prived from being a fashioner , a sailer , a father , a husband : and Solomen did not other way deprive Abiathar from the Priest-hood , then indirectly by consining him for treason at Anathoth , so as he could not exercise the Priests office at Jerusalem . So after a a Junius de ●en●il●animad . l. 1. c. 20. a●t . 10. Junius , b b Altar . Damas●●n pag. 23. Calderwood , c c Gulied . Apollonius de ju●e Magist● . ●nsa●●●● c. 5. pag. 3. 7. Gul. Apollonius , d d Sibrandus c●nt●a . Pag. 148. 149. Sibrandus , yea e e Muketus de polit●ia potest . pag. 302 Muketus , a man for the times , denyeth that the Prince can take away that ecclesiasticall power that the Church hath given . And so f f Nico. ● Wedelius in tractatu de epis●●pain Constan●●ni . acknowledgeth Wedelius the same . That reasonlesse lyer Lysimach Nicanor in this ▪ and in other things , hath no reason to say , we borrow Jesuites doctrine to answer this argument , for g g Becanus ●n ●pi●s●ul . 10. 2. de 〈◊〉 . ●●g . l. 3. 〈◊〉 . 5 n 37. 38. the Jesuite Becanus is not ●nacquainted with Jesuits doctrine against the power of Kings , yet he answereth that Solomen as King had no power over Abiathar for treason , or any other crime , and therefore following Bellarmine and Gretserus saith , that Solomon did this by an extraordinary propheticall instinct , yet h h Abulensis q 38. & 31. Abulensis a great textuall Papist , and i i 〈…〉 ●4 B●naventura a learned Schooleman saith this p●oveth that the King is above the Priest , and that Priests in the Old Testament were not eximed from the civill Judges sword and power : this is very doubtsome to k k 〈…〉 c. 2● n. 2. Suarez who ●aith , that it was a temp●rall civill punishment of exi●e , and that ●●●siti●n from the exercise of the Priests office followed upon the other . But we neede not this answer , for Solomons sentence containeth in t●rminis , a meere civill punishment ; and these words 1 King . 27. S. Solomon thrust out Abiathar from being Priest to the Lord , seem not to be words of the Kings sentence of banishment , but are relative to the fulfilling of the Lords word , and a consequent of divine justice relative to the prophesie against Elies house . Though verily I see no inconvenience to say that Solomon did indeed deprive him from the Priest-hood by an extraordinary instinct of the Spirit , as he was led of God to build the Temple . 1. Because the text saith , so Solomon thrust out Abiathar from being Priest to the Lord , and ver. 35. and Zadok the Priest did the King put in the roome of Abiathar , which is a direct deprivation from the Priest-hood : but I contend not here .

But that the King causatively may deprive , that is , command the Church to cast out hereticks , and to commit the Gospell to faithfull men , who are able to teach others , 2 Tim. 2. 2. wee confesse : as for the power of convocating of Synods , some thinke that the King may convocate Synods as men , but as Church men they have power , if the Magistrate bee averse , to convocate themselves , see l l Junius 〈◊〉 . 4. l. 1. c. 12. a●t . 4. Junius who insinuateth this distin●tion . But certainly though the Kingly dignity be thought meerely civill , yet let this be thought on ; it may be thought that the Kings power is divine three wayes . 1. Effectually , and so we thinke that the Kingly power is an Ordinance of God lawfull , jure divin● ; many Papists say the contrary , but we thinke with Gods word , it is of divine institution , as is cleare , Psal. 2. 11. Prov. 8. 14. 15. Rom. 13. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6. Matth. 22. 21. 1 P●t . 2. 17 , 18. Eccles. 9. 20. Prov. 25. 2. Prov. 20. 2.

2 The Kings power may be thought divine , formally , and so as divine is opposed to civill , it is a humane ordinance , and not formally divine or ecclesiasticall , nor subjectively .

3. It may be thought divine and ecclesiastick , objectively and finaliter . The end intrinsecall being a spirituall good , and so the King hath power to conveene Synods not onely as they are men , and his Subjects , but also as they bee such subjects and Christian men , and members of Synods ; as the King may command the minister of the Gospell both as a man , yea and as a Preacher in the Pulpit , to preach ●ound doctrine and to give wholesome and good milke to the Church , and this is formally an act of a nurie-father , such as the King is by his Kingly office : and this way also doth the King send members to the Synod , and moderate , and preside in Synods , actu imp●rato ▪ n●n elicito : actu objective ecclesiastico ; non intrinsece , non formaliter , non subjective eccles●astico . The King ruleth by the Sword , and commandeth the Synods to meete , ordereth politically and civilly the members and meeting , and as King cooperateth , but by a civill and regall influence , with the Synod , for the same very end that the Synod intendeth , to wit , the establishing of truth , unity , and the edification of Christs-body . But this power of the Kings to conveene Synods , is positive , not negative , auxiliary and by addition , not by way of impedition or privation . For the Church of her selfe , hath from Christ her head and Lord , power of conveening without the King , beside his knowledge or against his will , if he be averse , as is cleare Matth. 18. 17 , 18. if they be conveened in his name he is with them ; not upon condition that the Prince give them power . And Joh. 20. 19. there is a Church-meeting without the Rulers , and a Church-meeting for praying , preaching , and discipline , Act. 1. 13 , 14. &c. without the Magistrate , & Act. 15. 1 , 2. and when the Magistrate is an enemy to the Church . 2. Where Christ commandeth his disciples to preach and baptize , Matth. 28. 19 , 20. and with all faith in the exercise of their ministry , they shall be persecuted by rulers , as Matth. 10. 17 , 18 , 19. Luk. 21. 12 , 13 , 14. He doth by necessary consequence command Church-meetings , and Synods , even when the Magistrate forbiddeth , and this is practised , 1 Cor. 5. 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5. where the Magistrate is an heathen , chap. 6. 1 , 2 , 3. 3. It should follow that Christ cannot have a true visible Church , and ministry on earth , except the Magistrate countenance his Church , which is both against experience , and Christs Kingly power , who reigneth in the midst of his enemies , Psal. 110. 2. And what glorious Cour●bes had Christ in Asia , with power of doctrine and discipline , and ●o with all Church-meetings , Rev. 2. chap. 3. where Tyrants did slay the witnesses of Christ , Rev. 2. 13. and certainely by what power Kings allead●e that Synods may not meet , for the exercise of discipline and good order in Gods house , by that same power they may say there should be no Church meeting for the hearing of the word and receiving the Sacraments , without their authority . For Church Synods for doctrine differ not , in spece , and nature , from Synods for discipline , all be one and the same acts under Christ as King and head of his Church , for which see m m Spalato de repub eccles l. 5 c. 5 ● . 88 ▪ 8. Spalato , n n U●●tius . tract . de potest . ●●cles U●●tius , o o Am●sius 〈…〉 . de concil . c. 1. ad . 1. Am●sius , p p Calderwood 〈…〉 . pag. 14 , 15. &c. Calderwood , q q Professor . Leydens . 〈◊〉 . 49. 〈◊〉 . 6. the Professors ●● L●yden . Now what any say on the contrary , for the power of Princes in matters ecclesiasticall , is soone answered , r r Gerardus de Magistr. polit. to . 6. n. 171. pag. 5 ●● . Gerardus saith that Moses gave Lawes both to the People and Priests , Exod. 20. Lev. 8. Num. 3.

I answer , if this be a good argument , the Magistrate his alone without advise of the Church may impose Lawes , yea and institute new Laws , and dite Canonicall Scripture also , as did Moses , Deut. 5. Exod. 20. but it is certaine that Moses gave these Laws , not as a Magistrate , but as a Prophet of God , who spake with God face to face , and it is more for us , then for our adversaries .

David also brought the Ark to its place , at Gods speciall direction , the Levites carrying it by Gods Law , though they failed in that sinfull omission , 2 Sam. 6. but 1 David did convocate the chosen of Israel , even thirty thousand , to reduce the Ark to its place , and so the Levites and Church-men , and did it not as King his alone , as 1 Chron. 13. hee did it . And s s Junius 1 Chron. 13. 1. Junius saith ( and the text is cleare ) that he did it by the counsell of an Assembly and the whole Church , and that a King may doe that in Gods worship , in case of the negligence of the Church , that is warranted by Gods word , is but his duty . Now Jesuites answer not to any purpose in this , for t t Becanus in 〈◊〉 . de 〈◊〉 5. n 30 〈…〉 . Becanus , and u u Suarez 〈…〉 . 25. n. 12. Suarez answer nothing to Davids placing of the Arke in its place , onely they say all the people conveved the Arke and danced before it , as well as David , but it is not hence proved , that all the people are heads of the Church , as they say the King is : and Lysimachus the Jesuite seeth in this that wee a●●ee not with his friends the Jesuits .

Solomon builded the Temple , and dedicated it to Gods service , but this is no ground to make the King a Law-giver in the Church . 1. Because none can deny but Solomon did all this , as a Prophet , by speciall revelation : for 1. if Solomon might not build an house to the Lord , but by speciall revelation , that hee should bee the man , and not David his father , 2 Sam. 7. 6. 13. farre more could hee not as an ordinary King , build that typicall house , which had a resemblance of Christ , and heaven it selfe , especially seeing the signification of the Holy of holiest in the Sanctuary is expressely given to the holy Spirit , Heb. 9. 7 , 8. and the Temple was a type of Christ , Joh. 2. 20 , 21. and they may say Kings by an ordinary power as Kings might pen Canonick Scripture , as well as they could build a typicall Temple like Solomons . God filled that Temple with his glory , and heard prayers made in that temple and toward that Temple . I thinke Kings as Kings cannot now build such Temples ; therefore Solomon by a Propheticall instinct built that house . Jesuites give no answer to this , for u u Suarez opused . 3. 〈…〉 . 25 n. 1● . Suarez saith Kings may build Churches to God ; because of it selfe it is an act of Religion which requireth riches for the building thereof , and for the dedication it includeth two , 1. By some religious action to consecrate a house to God ; and this way onely the Priests by sacrificing dedicated the Temple , and God by filling of it with his presence , dedicated it to himselfe . 2. It includeth an offering and giving of an house to Gods service .

I answer : by this Solomon as a private man builded the Temple , and dedicated it to God , and not as either King or Prophet ; but this is a vaine answer , for no private man could have builded an house to God , with such typicall relations to Christ , and to the Church of the New Testament , except hee had been immediatly inspired by the holy Ghost . x x Becanus de prima●● reg●o l. 3. ob . 4. pa. 73. Becanus saith three sorts of men were actors here , 1. Solomon , 2. The Priests , 3. The people : Solomon prayed and gave thankes , the Priest● ●arried the Arke , the Tabernacle , the holy vessels , and sacriji ●s , the 〈…〉 present , rejoyced and gave thank●s to God : there is nothing 〈…〉 Solomons headship ; Solomon dedicated a Temple to God , what , it will no more follow , hee was the head of the Church for that , 〈…〉 ●ffered stones and timber to God , then the wom●n can ●ee 〈◊〉 of the Church , who offered to God g●●d , purple , 〈…〉 budd●● Temple to God , many Mer●han●s ●ubild Temple● upon their 〈…〉 God , and pray to God to accept these Temples ; 〈◊〉 in England 〈◊〉 Temples to God , they are not for that head of the Church .

Answ. 1. This is another Temple then Temples builded daily ; 1. Because it was wil-worship for David to build this Temple , and service to God for Solomon a King of peace , and a type of our King of wisedome Christ , to build this Temple and for no other ; any Merchant may build a common house to Gods service , without a speciall word of promise , which word Solomon behoved to have , or then hee could not build this house . 1. To dedicate an house to God typicall of Christ ; 2. Filled with the cloud of Gods presence , where God said , hee would dwel in this house ; 3. With such ornaments as the Holy of holiest in it ; 4. In which God said he would heare prayers ; whereas now in all places hee heareth prayers , Joh. 4. 21. 1 Timoth● 2. 8. this is another positive worship then that a merchant build a house for Gods daily service , which hath no relative holinesse in it , but onely is holy in the use , and to dedicate a house in these termes is more then an ordinary dedication to Gods service , and their Prelates in England , who dedicated Temples to God , cannot answer this reply of the Jesuites , nor can the new Jesuite Lysimachus Nican●r their brother answer the Jesuite herein ; wee say from warrant of Gods Word , that Solomon did all this , by a propheticall instinct , by the which also hee prophecied , and did write the booke of the Pro●●rbs , Ecclesiastes , and Solomons Song ; else Jesuites may say that these bookes doe no more prove Solomon to bee a Prophet , then the tomes written by Becanus and Suarez , doth prove that they were divinely inspired Prophets .

Obj. David also prepared materialls for the Temple , 1 Chron. 22. 2. and dicided the Levites in certaine rankes and orders , 1 Chron. 23. 4.

Answ. 2 Chron. 8. 13. for so had David the man of God commanded , the man of God is the Prophet of God , not the King of Israel as King , 2 Chron. 29. 25. and hee set the Levites in the house of God with Cymba's and psalteries and ●arpes according to the commandement of David , and of Gad the Kings Seer , and N●uh●n the Prophet , for so was the commandement of the Lord by his Prophets ; they may prove then God the Prophet is the head of the Church , and hath power to make Church-Lawes . But it is a great mistake . H●●●●iah , David , Solomon , commanded the people and the ●evites to doe their duties according to Gods Word . Ergo , Kings may make Church-constitutions by a mixt power , it followeth in no so●● ; wee deny not but the King may command in Gods worship , what is already of cleare and evident divine institution , but that hee may obtrude it , as a thing to bee observed , by all Church men , and urge it , as a constitution come from authoritie , to b●e observed under the paine of ecclesiasticall censures , wee deny : now this formalists teach , that hee may command in the externall government , as a Church constitution to bee in his royall name executed , by Church men with Church censures , though the Church never heard of it before .

It is true that Jehoshaph ●t , 2 Chron. 19 8 , 9 , 10 , 11. set of the Levites and Priests , and the chiefe of the fathers of Israel , for the judgement of the Lord , and for controversies — and charged them , to doe in the feare of the Lord , v. 11. and behold Amariah the chie●e Priest ( saith hee ) is over you in all the matters of the Lord ▪ and Zebadiah the sonne of Ismael , the ruler of the house of Judah , for all the Kings matters ; also the Levites shall bee officers before you ; deale c●●ra●iously , and the Lord shall bee with the good . Hence doth T●oker and other court parasites inferre , 1. That the King constituting Levites , and Priests in a Citie , must bee head of the Church , and 2. That Jehoshaph at having constitute two Vicars and D●puties under him , one in Church matters , to wit , Amariah , another in civill matters , to wit , Zebadiah , therefore hath the King a jurisdiction and headship in both Church and State .

Answer 1. The institution of Priests is one thing , and the calling of the persons to the Office another ▪ the former was Gods due , who himselfe chused the tribe of Levi , and this the King did not . But it is another thing to constitute Priests and Levites , who were instituted and called of God , to serve in such a place at Jerusalem , rather then in any other place ; this is but to apply a person , who is jure divine , by Gods right in office , to such places and times . This is not a point of Ecclesiastical jurisdiction , for placing and timing Preachers belongeth to the people calling them , and in the time of Apostasy , as this was , Jehoshaphat sent Levites to teach , and commanded them to do their duty ; but that the High Priest is the Kings Deputy or Vicar , as if the King offered sacrifices to God , as the principall and Church head , or by the Ministry and service of Amariah , as his instrument , deputy and servant , is most idly , and untruely spoken . Yet will I not use the argument of Be●anus the Jesuite , who saith , If Amariah was the Kings Vicar , then may the King by himselfe sacrifice , for what ever the Vicar o● deputy may d●e , that may the person above him , who giveth him power , d●e without the Vicar . The Kings royall commandement is formally terminated upon the quality and manner of Ecclesiasticall acts , that they bee done according to Gods Law , rather then upon the acts according to their substance .

It * * Note . is one thing for Ministers to Preach sound Doctrine , and administrate the Sacraments in obedience , and at the Kings commandement , which wee acknowledge a truth , and another thing for Ministers to Preach in the name and authority of royall Majesty , as having a calling from him : this latter is false : as the King may do an act of justice , at the direction of a Minister , commanding him in Gods name to execute judgement impartially : yet the King doth not an act of justice in the name and authority of the Church . And that is true which Be●anus saith , What the instrument doth , the principall cause may do , where the Vicar or Deputy , and the principall substitut●r of the Vicar are both civill persons , or are both Ecclesiasticall persons , for in a large and unproper sense , the nurse is a sort of deputy under the nurse father , the Father may take care that the nurse give milke , and wholsom milke to his child , yet cannot the Father give milke himself . The King may take care , actu imperato , as one intending , in a Kingly way , that Christs body bee edifyed , that the Priests and Prophets feed with knowledge , the Church and sister of Christ , and so are the Priests under the King , and at his command to feed , and to feed with wholsome food the flocke , and in obedience to the King all are to do their duty , and his care is universall over all , and his end universall . That which is the end of Pastors , Doctors , Elders , Deacons , Lawyers , Judges , &c. is , in an universall intention , the Kings end , even Gods honor , by p●●curing in a regall way , that all do their duty in keeping the two Tables of the Law , and so is hee the great politick wheel moving by his royall motions , all the under wheeles toward that same end : yet cannot the King without sinne , and being like a Bird wandring from her nest , do that which is properly Pastorall , so that the Office is not subordinate to him , but immediately from God , yet are the operations of the Office , and to Preach tali modo , diligently sound Doctrine subordinate to him , but in a generall and universall way , as hee is a kingly mover of all , to keep the two Tables of the Law . Neither did the King ( as a a Suarez l. 3. de prima . Pontif . c. 25 n. 7. Suarez saith ) one and the same way appoint both the High Priest and the civill Judge . And b b Cajetan cōment . 2. paic . 19. v. 11. supren●a duo capita judicio●um decernit . Cajetan saith , he decerneth the two chiefe heads of Church and Common-wealth , but hee appointed not both , for God appointed Amariah , to bee High Priest , and not the King , but here is nothing to prove the Kings headship .

Asa reformed the Church and renewed the Covenant ; Ezekia● reformed Religion also , and brake in peeces the Brazen Serpent , and all these in the case of universall apostasie , and the corruption of the Priest-hood did reforme the Lords house , breake in peeces graven Images , but all this giveth to them no mixt Ecclesiasticall power of making Canons , of ordaining and depriving Pastors .

Whereas some object , That the care both of temporall good , and spirituall good , belongeth to the Magistrate , therefore , hee must have a power to make Church Laws . See c c Paraeus cōment . ad Ro● . 13. dub . 5. Pareus . For his care cannot bee supreme , if hee must rule at the nod and beck of Church-men .

I Answer , the connexion is weak : hee who hath the care of both the temporall and spirituall good of the people , hee hath a nomothetick power to procure both these two goods , it followeth no way , for then might hee have a power in his own person to Preach , and administrate the Sacraments , this power procureth the spirituall good , but such as is the care , such is the power , the care is politick and civill , Ergo , the power to procure the spirituall good , must bee politick and civill .

2. Neither is the King to do all at the nod and direction of the Priesthood , blindly and without examination . That is the blind doctrine of Papists , wee hold that hee hath a regall power to examine , if the Decrees of the Church bee just , Orthodox , and tend to edification , For hee is the Minister of God , for good , and to take vengeance on evill doing . And there is no just obligation to sinne , hee is not obliged to punish with the sword , well-doing , but evill doing , and the Church can oblige the Magistrate to do nothing , but that which in case there were no Church Law , and in case of the Churches erring , hee should doe .

2. They object , He to whom every soule is subject , he hath a power to make Church Laws , about all good : but all and every soule , without exception of Apostles , or Church-men , is subject to the civill Magistrate . Ergo. The proposition is proved from the Law of relatives , for he to 〈◊〉 we are subject , he may give Lawes unto us , for our g●●d . See d d Paraeus loc. citat . Pareus .

Answ. He to whom we are subject , may give any Lawes , or command any manner of way , for our good . I deny the proposition in that sense ; for then he might in the Pulpit preach the Commandements of God , for our good . He might give Laws under the paine of excommunication . It is enough that he may give Laws by sanction and civill enacting of Church Laws , and pressing us by the power of the Sword , to doe our duty , for the attaining of a spirituall good . He to whom we are subject , he may give Laws , that is presse , in a coactive way , obedience to Laws , that is most true , but it proveth not a nomothetick power in the King .

3. They object , What ever agreeth to the Kingly power concerning the good of Subjects , by the Law of Nations , that doth farre more agreeth Kings by the Law of God . For the Law of God doth not desir 〈…〉 ●e Law of Nations . But by the law of Nations , a care 〈◊〉 Religion belong th to the King , for Religion by the Law of nature is ind●●ed and brought in by the Law of Nations . As e e Cicero ● Tus●ul . nulla tam fera . tam 〈◊〉 nis unq●am natio fu● , quam non unbue●it religio ●●r●n . Cicero saith . And therefore to a Christian Kingly power , the care of Religion must be due .

Answer : we grant all , for a care in a civill and politick way belongeth to the Christian Prince , but a care by any meane whatsoever , by Preaching , or by making Church Canons , is not hence proved by no light of nature , or Law of Nations , in an ecclesiasticall care of Religion due to the Christian Prince , but onely in a politick and civill way .

4. All beleevers , even private men , may judge of Religion , not onely by a judgement of apprehension , but also of discretion , to try what Object . Religion is true , and to be holden , and what is false , and to be rejected . Ergo , farre more may the Christian Magistrate definitively judge of Religion , so he doe it by convenient meanes , such as are sound and holy Divines , and the rule of Gods word . The consequence is proved , because the faithfull Prince hath supreame power , which is n●mothetick , and a power to make Lawes .

Answer : it is true , all private beleevers may try the Spirits , whether they be of God or not : but hence we may as well conclude , therefore Princes may preach and administer the Sacraments , as therefore the Prince may define matters ecclesiasticall . For a eivill coactive power giveth to no man an ecclesiasticall power , except he be called thereunto , as Aaron was . 2. The meanes alleadged are the judgement of holy and pious Divines , and the word of God , but Moses whom they alleadge for a patterne of a civill ruler , who had a nomothetick power in Church matters , used not the advise of Divines , nor the rule of the written word , but as a Prophet immediately inspired of God , gave Lawes to Gods people , and prescribed a Law to Aaren , and to the Priest-hood . Now if rulers have such a power of defining Lawes , they neede not follow the rule of Gods word . But how shall they prove that Moses gave the Law to the people and the Priesthood , as a King , and not as the Prophet of God , inspired immediately of God ? For if Moses his Law came from the ordinary power of Kings , as it is such , then commeth Moses Law from a Spirit which may erre , for the ordinary Spirit to Kings , is not infallible , but with reverence to Kings , obnoxious to erring . God save our King .

5. It is a Princes part by office to defend Religion , and to banish false Religion , and to roote out blasphemies and heresies . Ergo , he ought Object . to know and judge by his office of all these . But if he be to use the sword at the nodde onely of the Church , without knowledge or judgement , he is the executioner and lictor of the Church , not a civill Judge .

Answ. In a Church right constitute , we are to suppone , that the Lawes of Synods are necessary and edificative , and that the Magistrate is obliged by his office to adde his sanction to them not by an unfolded faith , and as blind ; but he is to try them , not onely by the judgement of discretion , as a Christian , ( for so all Christians are to try them ) but also ( saving the judgement of some Learned ) by a judiciall cognition , as he tryeth civill crimes , which he is to punish : but his judiciall cognition is onely in relation to his practise , as a Judge , to authorize these Lawes , with his coactive power , not to determine truth in an ecclesiasticall way , under the paine of Church censures . Neither doe I beleeve , that the Magistrate is not subordinate to the Kingdome of Christ , as mediator , but subordinate to God as Creator onely . Though some Divines teach , that there should have beene Kings and supreme Powers in the world , though man had never fallen in sinne , and a Saviour had never beene in the World , and so that Kings are warranted by the Law of nature , and Nations , and not by any Law evangelick and mediatory : yet we thinke with reverence , this argument not strong , for generation and creation and multiplication of mankind should have beene in the World , though never a sinner nor a Saviour thould have beene in the world , yet are creation , generation and multiplication of mankind , by our divines , Junius , Trekatius , Gomaras , Calvin , Beza , Melancthon , Polanus , Rollocus , and many others , and with warrant of the word of God , made meanes subordinate to the execution of the decree of prede●tination to Glory , which decree is executed in Christ , as the meane and meritorious cause of salvation purchased in his blood . What heathen Magistrates as Magistrates know not Christ the Mediator ; Ergo , they are not means subordinate to Christs Mediatory Kingdome . It followeth not . For by Christ the wisedome of God , Kings doe reigne , though many of them know him not . As they are created by Christ , as the second person of the Trinity , though they know not the second person of the Trinity . It is their sinne that they know him not .

2. It is objected . The Magistrate is not given to the Church under the New Testament , by the calling of Christ , as an exalted Saviour , as all the gifts instituted for the government of the mediatory Kingdome are instituted for that end , Ephes. 4. 11. but it is instituted by God , as governer of the World , rewarding good and ill , Rom. 13. 1.

6. Answ. Neither is creation a gift of Christ as exalted mediator , therefore it is not a meane leading to the possession of that life purchased by the mediators bloud , it followeth not . For the Magistracy is a nurse-father of the redeemed spouse of Christ with the sincere milke of the word . I meane a formall meane procuring , by a coactive power , that the Church shall be fed , and it procureth not onely the Churches peace , which respecteth the second Table of the Law , but also godlinesse , which respecteth the first Table of the Law , 1 Tim. 2. 2. and Ephes. 4. 11. there be reckoned downe onely officers , which actibus elicitis , by formall elicit acts , procureth the intended end of Christs mediatory Kingdome . Not all the offices which procureth edification any way . Such as is in civill Governours , who are to see that the body of Christ be nourished , and grow in godlinesse , for that is an essentiall and specifick act of the Churches nurs-father .

3. It is objected . Magistracy compelleth men to the observance of Gods Law , Deut. 17. and doth not immediately , of it selfe , by spirituall gifts of the evangell , produ●e its effects . But all the mediatory Kingdome of Christ and the Government thereof , of its selfe and its owne nature , produceth the saving effects of the evangel● , by vertue of its institution , as faith , repentance , and salvation .

Answ. A Magistracy as a Magistracy , of it selfe concurreth , but in a coactive way , for producing of peace , honesty , and godlinesse , and serveth to edification : but I grant , not in such a spirituall way , as a Church-ministry , therefore it is not a meane subservient to the end of Christs mediatory Kingdome . It followeth not . It is not a spirituall meane . Ergo , it is not a meane . The consequence is null , and it is false , that all the meanes of Christs mediatory Kingdome are of their owne nature spirituall , for that is to begge the question , for the Magistrate procureth that the Church be fed , he punisheth blasphemers , that others may feare , and so abstaine , and so be edified , though the way be coactive , yet is it a way and meane appointed of God , as the nurse-father is a meane for the childs nourishing , though the nurse-breasts be a more subordinate meane , immediate meane .

4. It is objected . The Magistrate is not the Lords Ambassadour and minister in name of the Mediator Christ , as the Minister is , but it is extron ●call to the government of Christs Mediatory Kingdome , and 〈◊〉 helpe onely to those things , which concerne the externall man .

Answ. Hee who is called God , and so is the vicegerent of God , is Gods Ambassador politick commanding in Gods name , but in another way then a preaching Ambassador commandeth : and though Christ as Mediator , may attaine to his end without the King , as many were edified in the Apostolick Church where the civill Magistrate contributed no helpe , and was rather an enemy to the kingdome of Christ , and so Magistracy may bee called accidentall to Christs mediatory government : but if this bee a good argument to prove that Magistracie is not subordinate to Christs mediatory kingdome , then Oecumenicall and provinciall Synods consisting onely of Church men shall be no meanes subordinate to Christs kingdome , because Christs kingdome may subsist in one Congregation , without a provinciall assembly , and circumcision is no meane subordinate to that kingdome in the Jewish Church , because that mediatory kingdome substisted fortie yeeres in the Jewish Church in the Wildernesse without circumcision ; yea and Apostles and Evangelists are no meanes subordinate to that kingdome , because Christs mediatory kingdome subsisteth now without these officers . 2. Neither is it true that magistracie conferreth no helpe to this kingdom , but in these things which concerne the externall man , for in a politick and coactive way , the Magistracy taketh care by commandements , that the Church bee fed with the pure Word of God ; onely this proveth that magistracie , and Church ministery have two different objects , and the way of proceeding of these two states , the one carnall and with the sword , Joh. 18. 36. Rom. 13. 3 , 4. the other spirituall , to the manifestarion of the truth to the conscience , 2 Cor. 4. 1 , 2. Psal. 110. 1. 2. Es●y 11. 4. Heb. 4. 12. which we grant to be true .

5. It is objected , Christ himselfe performed all the parts of his mediatory kingdome , and all the functions thereof , in his owne person , and by his disciples , while hee was on earth ; but hee refused all civill Magistracy , and did inhibit his disciples thereof , because it is not contained under the administration of his mediatory office , as subordinate thereunto .

Answ. Christ refused magistracie , not because it is not subordinate to edification , which is the end of Christs mediatory kingdome , but because it is not compatible with his spirituall kingdome , in one and the same person , and therefore this is a caption , à non causa pro causa , in one and the same person and subject ; the civill and the Ecclesiasticall power are inconsistent and incompatible , that is true . Ergo , in the kind of lawfull meanes these two powers are unconsistent and uncompatible . I deny it to follow , for both royall power and Church power concurre for the producing of one and the same end , to wit , edification and obedience to both Tables of the Law , but after different wayes , carnall and spirituall . * * Note . I thinke it most considerable that though the Prince may by a coactive way , command that same which a Church Synod may command in an ecclesiasticall way , yet differeth these same powers in their formall objects , because the King commandeth that which is good , religious , decent in Gods worship as a thing already taught and determined judicially , either expressely in Gods Word , or then by a pastorall or Synodicall determination , and that not by way of teaching , informing the mind , exponing the Scripture , or by pastorall dealing with the conscience , as oblieging to a Church Liturgie , and ceremonies , as one who intendeth formall edification and faith , repentance , and obedience to God ; but the King commands that which is good and extra , as it is already taught , and expounded , and as it is an imperated act of externall worship , or mercy and justice done by a coactive power .

Hence the Magistrates power is not to edifie formally , but to procure that edification may bee . 2. The Magistrates power is Lordly , the Churches power is onely ministeriall . 3. The Magistrates power may bee in one , to wit , in the King , the Churches power of the keyes is in the Church . 4. They differ in formall objects , as hath been said .

Now to obviate what the Jesuite Lysimachus Nicanor saith , wee are no wayes of Papists mind in the matter of the Magistrates power , for Papists , 1. exclude Kings and Emperours from any medling with Church matters . Charles the fift was upbraided by Paul the third , the Pope of Rome , because hee did , as became a Prince , ordaine meetings , conferences , and assemblies for composing of differences in Churches matters , not giving the power of conveening councells , onely to the Pope , a a Later ● Pauli 3. ad Carol. 5. imperatorem . apud Wolsium tom . ● . Lect. memor . pag. 5●9 . comparing his fact to the attempt of Uzzah , who put his hand to the Ark , and to C●rah , Dathan and Abirams conspiracie against Moses ; yea and b b Nicol. 1 in Epist. ad Mi●ha . Impera . C. ul● na●n dist 96. Nicolaus the first in his Epistle to Michael the Emperour , denyeth that Emperours are to bee present in Synods , except in generall Synods , where both Church men and laicks are present : wee teach that the Magistrate is as the hand , the ministry as the eyes , and both are to concurre for the spirituall good of the body of Christ .

2. Papists will have the Magistrates so to defend the faith , as they have not power to judge , not as Christians with the judgement of descretion what is right , or wrong , but they must , as blind servants , execute what Prelates decree , yea and see ( non pr●priis ( saith c c Henric. Blyssemius tract . de Eccles p. 37. Henr. Blyssemius ) sed alienis Episcoporum ac p●aelatorum suorum oculis videre ) not with their owne eyes , but with the eyes of their Prelates , yea and the Magistrate should not read the Scripture , ( say Papists and Nican●rs brethren the Jesuits ) expresly contrary to Gods Word , Deut. 17. 17. Hee shall read in the booke of the Law , all the dayes of his life , Joshua 1. 8. but onely beleeve as the Church beleeveth , and this is blind obedience that they require of Princes ; this faith or obedience wee thinke abominable in all men , as in Princes .

Of old , Popes and Prelates were subject to Kings and Emperors , as wee teach from the Word of God , Rom. 13. 1. and 1. wee teach against the Jesuit Lysimachus Nicanor , that his Prelates should not invade the King and civill Magistrates sword , and be civill Judges , as Popes and Prelates are ; against which writeth a a Tertullian de idol . c. 8. Christus gloriam seculi & sibi & sais alienam esse judicavit . Tertullian , b b Origen homil. 12. in Matth. Origen , c c Hilarius ad Auxe●t . Hilarius d d Chrysostom . hom . 42. in Joan. Christus fugit ( diadema ●errenum ) ut oftenderes suum regnum nullis secularibus rebus indigere . Chrysostome , e e Ambrosius 2. ●om . 2. 4. in Dei rebus sollicitus ( sit Episc●pus ) a secul●i negotio alienus , non enim convenitunum , duplicem habere potestatem . Ambrosius , f f August . trin. Cos. in Joan. Augustinus ; The g g Survey of discipline , cap. 23. pag. 280 , 281. author of the Survey saith , that if every Eldership be the tribunall seat of Christ , what appellation can bee made there from to either provinciall or generall councell ? and hee meaneth , that there can bee no appellation to the King , seeing the Presbytery in Churches causes is as immediatly subject to Jesus Christ , and the highest Judicature on earth , as the King is Gods immediate vicegerent on earth , nearest to Jesus Christ , in civill causes .

I answer : the cause that is meerely ecclesiasticall , as the formall act of preaching and ecclesiasticall determining of truth in Pulpits , and the determining the truth in Church assemblies , in an ecclesiasticall way in Synods , and the excommunicating of a scandalous person , are immediatly subject to Jesus Christ , speaking in his owne perfect Testament : and these causes lie not at the feet of Princes to bee determined by them , as Kings , but in a constitute Church they are to bee determined by the ordinary Church assemblies , and in this place there is no appeale from the Presbytery to a King ; but it followeth not , that there can bee no appellation from a Presbytery to a provinciall , or to a nationall assembly ; 1. Because though every Presbytery bee the tribunall seate of Christ , yet it is but a part of the tribunall seat of Christ , and such a part as may easily erre , and therefore appellation may bee made from the weaker , and the part more inclined to erre , to the stronger and maniest , or the whole , who may more hardlier erre : and that is not denied by this author , who dare not deny , but they may appeal from a Bishop who doth , and may misleade soules , and emptie purses , to a Metropolitan , and an Archbishop , who is as dexterous and happy in emptying of poore mens purses , and destroying soules , if not large better , as a pettie Lord Prelate , from whom hee appealed ; yet is the one Lord Prelate the Vicar of Christ , as well as the other , by formalists bookes . And , 2. If the cause bee proper to the Presbytery , they have just right to judge it , as well as the provinciall assembly hath , but possibly not such knowledge , and if the partie complaine that hee is wronged , or may bee wronged , hee may well appeale to a larger part of Christs tribunall , lesse obnoxious to erring , which is no wrong done to the Presbyterie . This man laboureth to make a division amongst our Divines , because we know not whether to make our Pastors , Doctors , and Elders immediat 〈…〉 to Christ , as Priests , because then they are Priests of the New Testament , or ●ubject to Christ , as King , and then all our officers shall 〈◊〉 Kings , under Christ , and the Christian M●gistrate shall be so thrust out of his kingdome and chaire . And the ignorant railer maketh much adoe in this matter , but the truth is stronger then this Popish scribler ; for 1. as Christ is a Priest having a body to offer for the sinnes of the people , and a reall Sacrifice , our Divines deny that Christ hath any substitute and demie Priests under him , or master Priests to offer sacrifices reall to God : if this Author put any Priests under Christ in this meaning , hee is upon an unbloody Masse-sacrifice , much good doe it him ; if h h Fenner 〈◊〉 . pa 〈◊〉 Fenner make this propheticall office of Christ a part of Christs Priesthood , because the Priest was to teach the people , Matth. 2. 7. Hos. 4. 6. and i i 〈…〉 . pag. 219. Abraham Henrick say the same , there is no absurd to make the officers of the New Testament subordinate to Christ , as to our high Priest teaching us Gods will , not to Christ as our high Priest offering a bloody or a reall sacrifice to God , & this Author maketh much ado to cite k k 〈…〉 2. p. 4 〈◊〉 . Cartwright , l l 〈…〉 4. pa. 11● Fenner , m m ●Span . 18. v. 36. Bez●● , n n Sonnius ap. t●n . 1. pag. 399 and Sonnius , men whose bookes hee is not worthy to beare , making the officers of Christs kingdome subordinate to Christ as King , for as much as Christ as King prescribed the forme of ecclesiasticall government , and then saith the poore man o o Survey of discipl cap. ●3 . pag. 280. the Pastors under Christ ●● King must bee all Emperors , the Doctors Kings , the Elders Dukes , the Deacons Lords of the treasury , &c. and if they bee Christs immediat vicegerents , within their owne Kingdomes , who shall controll any of them , on whithot shall an injured man appe●le ? Answ. 1. Wee Emanuel Sa. in 〈◊〉 Cle●●cus spake like a J●suite , the ●ebellion of a Clerg● man , against a King , is no ●●eason because hee is no subject ▪ The Jesuits vow out of Julius the third his Bull , qua con 〈…〉 Jesu●tarum , c. 21. l. 3. de vita ●gnat . Laiolae . All people are subject to the Pope : we 〈◊〉 beside the communitie of the three ordinary vowes be bound by a more specialty to w●●●soever the present Pope and all others hereafter shall command , &c. and that is as Mr. All●n principall of the Colledge of Jesui●● at Rheimes i● a solomne oration , It is 〈…〉 kill Kings . are to blesse God that these Officers , Pastors , Doctors , Elders & Deacons are expresly in the Word of God , and that this railers officers , to wit , Bishops , Archbishops , Metropolitans , Primats , Deanes , Archdeanes , officials , &c. are in no place of Christs testament , onely they are in the Popes Masse book : now if the man offend , because they are subordinate to Christ as King , hee must make his Primates , his Metropolitans , his Diocesan Lords , his Deans , Officials , and such wild Officers , Emperours , Kings , Dukes and Lord Treasurers under Christ , for some roome these creatures must have , else they must bee put out at the Church doors , and if a man bee injured by the Primate , to whom shall hee appeale , but to some above him , a Cardinall ? and if that creature be a Christ , who cannot do wrong , well and good it is , wee rest , but if hee bee a man like the rest of the world , surely poor folk must appeale to his high holines the Pope . 2. Deacons are not men of ecclesiastick authoritie in our account , but are to serve tables , Acts 6. 3. nor are our officers little Kings under Christ , ( for the man cannot hold of the sent of a Lord Bishop ) but meere ministers and servants , and the Ambassadors of the King of Kings , who have no power to make lawes , as if they were little Kings , but are to propound Christs lawes ; hee is ignorant of Christs kingdome , for the officers of the New Testament are under Christ as their King ; Ergo , they are under him as little deputie Kings to make Lawes , as Judges earthly are under those whose kingdome is of this world , Joh. 18. 36. the man is both beside his booke , and his wit , to infer this ; Christ hath no Popes nor visible substitute Kings under him , but under him are meere servants and heralds .

4. Wee are farre from holding , that one Church man such as the Pope may excommunicate Kings ; Gregorius the second excommunicated the Emperour Leo , and Gregorius the seventh , alias wicked Hildebrand , excommunicated Henry the fourth ; Christ hath committed the power of excommunication to the whole Church , 1 Cor. 5. 4. Matth. 18. 17 , 18. and therefore Lysimachus Nicanor cannot but side with Papists in laying this power upon one Prelate , as the Kings substitute , or rather the Popes Vicar .

5. Wee doe not teach that the Pope or any Church man may dethrone Kings , and alienate their crownes to others . Gregory the first in a certaine decree saith , Kings and Judges , who contr●veneth the constitution of the Sea of Rome , are to bee deprived of her honour ; Gregory the second having excommunicated the Emperour Leo , discharged the Italians to pay him tribute , and that because Leo was against the worshipping of Images ; See p p Haiminsfieldius 〈…〉 Haiminsfieldius , and q q Arniseus de 〈…〉 . Arniseus , and r r Baleus in 〈◊〉 pag. 82 Baleus saith the Pope drew the subjects of this Leo Isaurus , in apertam rebellionem , to 〈◊〉 rebellion , and so the Emperors of the east were deprived of the kingdome of Italy , per sanctissimum diabolum , by a most holy devill : Pope Zachariah , ( not the Prophet ) deprived Childericus King of France of his kingdome , and procured that Pipinus the father of Charles the great , should bee created King , so saith s s Baleus , 16. Baleus also .

Let the third transferred the Empire from the Grecians to the Romans , and by the hand of Pope Leo ( saith Sigebertus ) Charles was crowned ; See for this t t 〈◊〉 Shardius in 〈…〉 . Go●stad par. 4. pag. 296. Shardius . Gregorius the fift being the brother germane of Otbo the Emperour , made a Law that the Emperour should bee chosen by seven Princes electors , which fact weakned the majestie of the Empire , which went before by inheritance , hence An. 1350. Charles the fourth , that his sonne might succeed him in the Empire , laid in pledge the free Cities of the Empire , in the hands of the Prince electors , which to this day are not redeemed . So did the Pope shake the Empire , at his owne will . Gregory the third began , and Leo the third finished the devise of erecting a new Empire in the West , and weakned the power of the Emperour of Constantinople .

Gregorius the seventh , alias gracelesse Hildebrand , deprived Henry the fourth , and created another in his place , as u u Sleidan peri●d . 5. c 8. Sleidan and x x Lampadius part . 3 pag. 203. Lampadius relateth . Innocentius the third dethroned Otho the fourth : and Innocentius the fourth dethroned Frederick the second , and the like did Clemens the sixth to Lodovick the fourth , by Bellarmines owne confession . No Emperours can bee created but by their consent , saith the y y Catalogus test●um v●●ita . t is lib. 15 seculo 12. pag. 1544 , 1545. Author of that learned worke , Catalog . testium veritatis . They loose the subjects from the oath of fidelitie . Lodovick the fourth answering the calumnies of John the 22. z z Apologia L●dov . 4. contra calumnias Joan. papae 22. saith it is against all Law that the Emperour hath no imperiall authoritie and power , except hee bee anointed , con●e●rated and crowned by the Pope ; he citeth their owne a a In decret . 96. dist. c. cum ad verum & canone duo sunt . Law on the contrary . That Joannes the 22. ( saith the Emperour ) insinuateth in his Bull , that hee is universall Lord in both temporall and spirituall matters . Bonifacius the eighth setteth out a Bull against Philip the Faire , Philippus Pulcher King of France ( as saith b b Stephanus Aufrerii . Stephanus Aufrerii ) and speaketh thus , that he is universall Lord of the earth in both temparall and spirituall thing● Bonifacius Episcopus servus ser●orum dei , Philippo Fr●n 〈◊〉 regi , deum time & mandata ejus serva , seire te volumus quod in spritualibus & temporalibus nobis su●es , benificiarum & pre●end●●● ad te c●●●io nuda spectet , &c. Beleeve if ye will , that Constan●●●● gave to the Popes of Rome freedome and immunity from the imperiall Laws , and that he gave to the Pope the territories of Rome , and the City of Rome the Seat of the Empire to be Peter the fishers patrimony , and this ( say they ) Constantine gave to Silvester , which is the Patrimony of the Crowne , and the very Empire it selfe given to Peter , we teach no such Kingly power given to Church-men , and judge this donation to be a forged lye , invented by Papists , because they are their owne witnesses of this donation . For c c Hieronymus Pa●●us in 〈◊〉 qui 〈…〉 pract●●●●●●c●llariae Ap 〈◊〉 . Hieronymus Pa●●●us Cath●lanus , a Lawyer , and Chamberlaine to Pope Alexand●r the sixth , saith exprelly there was no such donation made by Constantine . And because those who are most diligent observers of memorable antiquities speake nothing of this donation , as neither Eusebius , nor Hieronymus , nor Augustine , nor A●brase , nor Basilius , nor Chrysostome , nor Ammianus , nor Histeri● T●ip ●●tita , nor Pope Damasus in his Chronicle , nor Beda , nor Oros●us , it is but a dreame , yet it is certaine that three hundreth veares after Constantine the Emperours keeped Rome , and the Townes of Italy , by their presidents and deputies , as may be seene in d d Iustm●an lib 1. & 2. de off praes praes Ap●ric . Justini●n . And this they did to the time of Inn●●●ntius the second , as Chronicles doe beare .

6. Wee doe not teach that Church-men are loosed from the positive Lawes of Emperours and Kings . Bellarmine e e Bell●●mm de clericis c. 28. saith that the Magistrate can neither punish Church-men , nor conveene them before the tribunall● so Innocentius the third , saith f f Inno●●ntius III. decret. 1. t●t 3● . de Major . 〈…〉 . imperium non paeest tace●datio , sed sudsubest , & 〈…〉 . the Empire is not above the Pope , but the Pope is above the Empire . And Bonifacin● the eighth g g Bonifacius 8. extra de 〈◊〉 & obed. C. una●n ●●n●●m . ●mnes Christ sideles de nec●ssit●● sa ●uis sub●●nt Pon●fici Rom●an 〈…〉 habet , & ●mnes ●u●●cat , 〈…〉 . saith , all upon hazard of their salvation , are subject to the Pope of Rome , who hath the power of both swords , and judgeth all and is judged by no man . Now it is knowne to 〈◊〉 Nicanor , that the Prelats of England and Scotland in their high Commission , had the power of both swords , and that by Episcopall Lawes , the Primate 〈◊〉 all the 〈◊〉 , and is judged by none , and who but he ? and who ever spake as h h 〈…〉 . Suarez ? That Church-m●n 〈…〉 co 〈…〉 against Princes , even to detbrane them . And as he saith , 〈…〉 , by divine Law the Pope is eximed from a● Laws of Princes : and shall we in this beleeve i i 〈…〉 . Bellarmin● , k k 〈…〉 . Sato , l l 〈…〉 . ●●●etanus , m m 〈…〉 . Turrecremata , n n 〈…〉 . Gr●g●rius de Valent. o o 〈…〉 . Sua●●●● and then forsooth they bring us their p p Silvest. in Concil. 〈◊〉 . c. 20. Canon Law to judg the Law of God , & to prove it , because it is said by their Silvester , nemo judicabit primam ●dem , and their q q Gratian ● 43. c. nemo judicabit . Gratian learned this jus divinum , this divine Law from Innocentius the Pope . And what they alledge for Peters exemption from paying tribute , will exime all the disciples , and so all Church-men by divine right from the Lawes of Princes . Yea all Clergy-men ( say they ) by a divine positive Law are eximed from the Laws of Magistrates . So saith r r 〈…〉 . Suarez , s s 〈…〉 . Bellarmine , and t t 〈…〉 . the 〈◊〉 of Rbeimes , but with neither conscience , nor reason . And contrary to their owne practise and doctrine . For Paul will have every soule subject to superiour Powers , and except the Roman Clergy want Soules , they must also be subject . Salomon punished Abiathar , Josiah burnt the bones of the Priests upon the A●tar , Christ subjected himselfe to his Parents , payed tribute to Caes●r , and commanded Scribes and Pharisces to doe the like , Matth. 22. Willing that they should give to Cesar those things which are Caesars . Paul appealed to Caesars Tribunall , and Rom. 13. as many , as may doe evill , as many , as are in danger of resisting the power , are to be subject . Rom. 13. 4. 2. but Church-men are such , therefore they are subject .

Agatho Bishop of Rome writing to Constantius the Emperour , calleth himselfe imperii famulum , a Subject of the Empire , and saith , pro obedientia quam debuimus . Leo submitted himselfe to Lodovick the Emperour . w w 2. quest. 7. The Clergy of Constantinople may be conveened before the Patriarch or President of the City . See the x x Cod l 1. leg . 31. An●●emius , Cler●●● ex●●ane● . Law . And y y Cod. l. 1. ●●● . 5. leg . 24. and z z Cod. l. 1. ●●● . 6. leg . 34. Anthemius praesi lal● ju●isd● ctio . 111. &c. Bishops , Clerks , Monkes , &c. for criminall causes are judged by the Presidents : If a man have a suit with a Clerk , for a money matter , if the Bishop resuse to heare , tunc ad civilem judicem , &c. a a Caus●n 4. 1. ca. 45. decret. Grego . l. 5. tit . 39. c. 23. Clem. 3. say they . Sigebertus , as also b b Luitprandus in vir●s Pontif in Agat●ore . Luitprandus doth witnesse that the Bishops of Rome were compelled to pay a certaine summe of money to the Emperors , to be confirmed in their Bishopricke , ev●n till the yeare 700.

Leo the fourth , who is canonized by Papists as a Saint , c c Ext●a . de Major & obed. C●unam . in Gloss. writeth to Lotharius the Emperour , that they will keepe the Emperors Lawes for ever , and that they are lyars who say the contrary . Arcadius made a Law , that if a Priest were found to be seditious and troubling the publick peace , he should be banished an hundred miles from that place . But how farre Popes have surpassed bounds in these ; see their blasphemies . As they say d d Clement . Pastor de re ju dic . God should not have beene discreet , nisi potestatem Pontifici super principes contulisset , except he had given power to the Pope above Princes . Also e e C. fundamen . de elect . in 6. Papam superioritatem habere in imperatorem , & vacante imperatore , imperatori succedere . Also f f C. solit extrav . de Major . & obed. Papa habet utriusque potestatis , temporalis nempe & spiritualis , Monarchiam . Also g g In l. 1. ceremoni . eccles. Rom. ●t . 7. Quanto sol lunam , tanto Papa superat Imperatorem . The Pope is above the Emperor and succeedeth to the Emperors throne , when it is vacant , and he is as farre above the Emperor , as the Sunne is above the Moone . The Pope also (h) in the Nativity night , blesseth a Sword , and giveth it to some Prince , in signe , that to the Pope is given all power in heaven and in earth .

7. The Pope may loose all Subjects from their oath of Loyalty and may command that a Jesuite stabbe or poyson a King , when he turneth enemy to the Roman Faith . All these Satan and envy it selfe cannot impute to our doctrine . Let L●simachus the Jesuite heare this , and see if his owne little Popes , the Prclats , doe not teach or aime at all these points against the Kings of the earth .

CHAP. 7. SECT. 1.

Of the way of Reformation of the Congregations of England . The way of the Churches of Christ in New England .

IN the first article , the Author acknowledgeth the Church of England was once rightly , and orderly gathered , either by Apostles ●● apostolick men , whether Philip , or Joseph of Arimathea , or Simon Zelotes , as we may read in Fox , &c. Sothat all the worke now , is not to make them Churches which were none before , but to reduce and restore them to their primitive institution .

Answ. Though the Churches of England were planted by the Apostles , yet since Popery universally afterward prevailed , in both England and Scotland , as Beda and Nicephorus and ancient histories witnesse , we thinke by our brethrens grounds England losed the very essence of a true Church . So that there be neede of the constituting of a new Church , and not of simple restitution to the first restitution . 1. Because the Congregations wanteth the essentiall constitution of right visible Churches , as you say . 2. Because you receive none comming from the Church of New-England , to the seales of the Covenant , because they are members of no visible Church .

Sect. 2. Certaine propositions tending to Reformation .

In the third or fourth Proposition the Author condemneth Laicks Patronages .

2. Dedicating of Lands to the Ministry ; to these adde what the Ministers of New-England say a a Answer to the 26. Question . in their answer to the thirty two Questions sent to them from Old-England , where they condemne stinted maintenance . Though the right of Church Patronages were derived from Romulus , it is not for that of noble blood . ●or b b Dionys. Halicarnass . l. 2 antiquit. optiene cuiquam ex ●ulgo data , ut que●n vellent sibi pa●●onu●n el●ge●ent Dionysius Halicarnasseus saith Romulus instituted Patronages , when he had divided the people in noble and ignoble , called , Patricii & Plebeii . But this Patronage was civill , and when servants and underlings were hardly used , it hath a ground in nature , that they choose Patrons to defend them , therefore hee who gave libertie to a a servant , amongst the Romans was called a Patron , and c c Terentius in Eunu●ho●e mi●● Patronum cupie . I ●a● . he who defended the cause of the accused , as Valla saith , was called a Patron . If it bee said that the servant was the proper goods , and part of the Masters patrimony , because hee might sell his servant , and therefore there could bee no Law given to prove men may limit the dominion of the master over the servant .

I answer ; the servant was a part of his masters patrimony , but a part thereof for sinne , not as his Oxe or his Asse , is a part of his patrimony ; therefore by the Law of nature , whereby the weaker imploreth helpe of the stronger , as the Lambe seeketh helpe from the mother , and the young Eagle from the old , the slave might well have libertie to choose a Patron , and this is a ground that the Magistrate the Churches nurs-father by office should plead the Churches cause , as her Patron , and every one in power is to defend the Church in her liberties and patrimony ; and therefore in the Apostles time , when holinesse and the power of Religion did flourish , and was in court , there was not need of any positive , civill or Church Law , for a Patron to the Church , every beleever in power is oblieged to defend the Church : but when men became Vulturs and ravenous birds to plucke from the Church what was given them , the Councell of Millian d d Concilium Melevitanu●n ●n . 402. in the yeare of God 402. wherein some say Augustine was president , under Honorius and Arcadius , some holy and powerfull men were sought from the Emperour to defend the Church in her patrimony , and rights against the power and craft of avaritious men , and they were called Patrons , and the same was desired e e Concilium Car●bagin . 5. c. 9. an . 420. in the first Councell of Carthage , but with the Bishops advice , cum provisione Episcoporum . Hence it is cleare , patronages from their originall were not Church priviledges , and Bishops being a part of the Church , could not be the Patrons , quia nemo sibi ipsi potest esse patronus , and for this cause that learned f f Hosp●nian de orig. te●nplo . to . 4. de orig. honor . eccles. c. 6. thinketh this was the originall of Church Patronages , but the Patrons have beene chosen with consent of the Church ; hence they were not as our Patronages are now , which goeth 1. by birth , 2. and are a part of a mans patrimony , and civill thing , that the Patron hath right unto , under the Kings great Seale ; but as a Minister is not a Minister by birth , neither was a Patron a Patron by birth : and from this wee may collect , that the Patrons right was but a branch of the Magistrates right , and accumulative , not primitive , and that hee could take nothing from the Church , and 〈◊〉 lesse might the Patron forestall the free election of the people , by tying them and their free suff●ages to a determinate man , whom hee presented ; and it is not unlike which g g A●entinus in 〈…〉 . 6. a●al . A●entinus 〈◊〉 , when Bishops gave themselves onely to the Word of God , to preaching and writing bookes in defence of the truth , the Emperour tooke care that they should bee furnished with food and ●aiment , and therefore gave them a p●tronus quem 〈◊〉 patronum curatoremque vocabant , whom they called a patron ; and here observe the Bishop of old was the client , and the sonne and Pupill , now hee must bee the Patron and Tutor , and therefore in time of Popery , Antichristian Prelates would bee Patrons both to themselves and to the Churches .

But this seemeth not to bee the originall of patronages , because this ground is common to all Churches , but not all , but onely some certaine Churches have patronages , therefore their ground seemeth rather to bee that some religious and pious persons founded Churches , and dotted , and mortified to them benefices , and the Church by the Law of gratitude did give a Pat●onage over these founded Churches to the first foundators and their heires , so as they should have power to nominate and present a Pastor to the Church . But there were two notable wrongs in this ; for 1. If the fundator have all the Lands and Rents in those bounds , where the Church was erected , hee is oblieged to erect a Church , and furnish a ●●pend , both by the Law of nature and so by Gods Law also . Ergo , the Church owe to him no gift of patronage for that , nor is hee to keepe that patronage in his hand , when hee erecteth a Church ; but and if hee being Lord heritor of all the Lands and Rents , both erecteth a Church , and dotteth a stipend , sub modum eleemosynae , non sub modum debiti , by way of almes , not by way of debt , then is there no gratuitie of honour , nor reward of Patronage due to him , for almes as almes hath no reall or bodily reward to bee given by those on whom the almes is bestowed , but onely the blessings of the poore , Joh 31. 20. it being a debt payed to God , hee doth requite it . And h h Fdvar . Dido . lav . in 〈…〉 . p. 591. Calderword saith , no wise man would thinke that the Church men should allure men to found Churches , and to workes of Pietie , by giving them the right of presenting a man to the change : and also hee would call it Simonie , not pietie or religion , if one should refuse to doe a good worke to the Church , except upon so deare●t rate , and so hard a condition as to acquire to himselfe po●er over the Church of God .

Though the ●ight of presenting a man to benefice were a meere temporall thing , yet because it removeth the libertie of a free election of the fittest pastor , as i i Origen . 〈◊〉 6. in Levit. is eligendus ex omni populo qui praestantior , qui doct●● , qui sanctier . Origen saith , it cannot bee lawfull , but it is not a temporall or civill right , but a spirituall right , though wee should grant that the people have a free voyce in choosing , and that the patron were oblieged to present to the benefice , the man onely whom the people hath freely chosen , and whom the Elders , by imposition of hands , have ordained . 1. Because the Pastors hath right to the benefice , as the workeman is worthy of his hire , and hee hath a divine right thereunto by Gods Law , 1 Cor. 9. 8 , 9. & c. Gal. 6 6. Matth. 10. 10. Ergo , if the patron give any right to the Pastor to the benefice , it must bee a spirituall right . If it bee said , hee may give him a civill right before men , that according to the Lawes of the Commonwealth , hee may legally brook and injoy the benefice ; this is but a shift , for the civill right before men is essentially founded upon the Law of God , that saith , the workeman is worthy of his hire : and it is that fame right really that the Word of God speaketh of : now by no Word of God , hath the Patron a power to put the Preacher in that case , that hee shall bee worthy of his wages , for hee being called , chosen as Pastor , hee hath this spirituall right not of one , but of the whole Church . 2. It is true , Papists seeme to bee divided in judgements in this , whether the right of patronage bee a temporall or a spirituall power ; for some Canonists as wee may see k k Abb. decius & in Abb. decius , l l Rubi . in c. Quanto de jud. & in d. ca. de 〈◊〉 . and Rubio , and the Glosse m m Glossa in c. piae menus 16. q. 7. saith it is partly temporall , partly spirituall . Others say it is a spirituall power , as n n Anton de Butr. & Anton. de Butr. and o o Andr. Barbat . in d. c. Quando . Andr. Barbat . and p p F●ancis . Suarez 〈…〉 & Statu 〈…〉 4 de 〈…〉 8 ● 5. Suarez , and whereas Papists doe teach that the Church may lawfully give a right of presenting to Church benefices , even to those who are not Church men , the power must bee ecclesiasticall and spirituall , and cannot bee temporall ; also Suarez saith , that the right of patronage may bee the matter of Sim●ny , when it is ●●ld for m●ney . Ergo , they thinke it an holy and spirituall power . It is true q q Ma● . An 〈…〉 Spalate● de 〈…〉 . 3. pag. 9●9 . the Bishop of Spalato calleth it a temporall power , which is in the hand of the Prince , but there is neither reason nor Law , why it can bee called a temporall power due to a man , seeing the patron hath ( amongst us ) a power to present , and name one man , whom he conceiveth to be qualified , for wee find the nomination of a list , or the seeking out of men fit for the holy ministry , some times ascribed to the Church , as Act. 1 23. Then they appointed two , Joseph called Barsabas , who was surnam d Jus●us , and Matthias , which words may well bee referred to the eleven Apostles , and so they nominated men , or to the Church of beleevers , and so though it bee not an authoritative action , it is an ecclesiasticall action , and belongeth to the Church as the Church , and so to no Patron : and the looking out of seven men to be presented as fit to bee ordained Deacons , is expresly given to the Church of beleevers , Act. 6. 3. Wherefore Brethren , looke yee out amongst you , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , seven men of honest report ; and sometimes the Apostles doe nominate men for the ministery , but never doth the holy Ghost mention a Patron . But if the thing it selfe ( say they ) hee necessary , then is the office not unlawfull .

But it is most necessary that some one or more eminent and powerfull men , should have power to see that the Church goods bee not delapidated .

Answ. It is a part of the Magistrates office , with his accumulative power , whereby hee seeth that every one doe their dutie , to take care that vulturs and sacrilegious devourers of Church livings bee punished ; and the Church themselves are to censure all guiltie of Simony or delapidation of the rents of the Church , as may bee gathered by due analogie from Peters punishing with death , the sacriledge of Ananias and Saphira , and the Simony of Simon Magus . 2. The ancient Church ●ooke care of dividing of the Church rent very carefully in foure parts ; one was given to the Pastor , who was not to imploy ●ents of the Church upon Horses and Coaches , and conquering Baronies and Lordships to their sonnes , as our idle belleys were in custome to doe , but the Bishop was to entertaine Hospitalls , and to feed the poore , to take care of bridges , rep●ring of Churches , so as r r A●brosius l. ● . epist. ●● . epist. ●● . 〈…〉 , quod pa●peru ●●●● est . Ambrose saith , what ever is the Biships , it is the poores ; a second part was given to the Elders and Deacons ; a third part was for the repairing of Churches , and a fourth part for Hospitalls , for poore and strangers ; this distribution with some other order , is made , if wee beleeve Papists , s s Sy●ol 3. 〈…〉 1. c 4. in a Synod at Rome under Silvester the first , though Socrates , Theodoret , Sozomen , and others well versed in antiquitie speake nothing of this Synod , but you may see this cleare in t t Synod . Braca●ens . ● c. 25. Synodo Bracarensi , in u u ●Span Anal. ●o . 289 Aventinus , in x x Gregorus 〈…〉 . Gregorius , so there is no need of a Patron , nor was there any in the Apostolick Church . Deacons were to take care for tables , and the goods of the poore , no reason that men seeme more carefull for the good of the Church then Jesus Christ . 3. Though there bee a necessitie that the Church bee defended in her liberties , yet is there no reason , an office should be made thereof ; as the Canonists make it an office , with a sort of stipend ; And therefore to make a Patron they require not onely the founding of a Church , but also the building of the house , upon his owne charges , and the dotation of a mainten●nce for the Church , y y 〈…〉 . and for this cause the Patrou hath a buriall place in the Church ; and if hee or his children become poore , they are to be entertained of the Church rents ; and therefore they call it jus ●uti'e , a gainefull power . 2. It is jus b●norifioum , hee hath power to nominate and present a man to the benefice of the vaiking Church . 3. It is jus onerosum , because hee is oblieged to defend the Church ; see the● z z C●●decernimus 〈◊〉 . 9. 7. Law for this ; so see also a a Altar . dam●s● . pag. 3●2 . Calderwood , b b Gera●dus loc. co●n . 10. 6 de min●ster . eccles. sect 5 pag 134. 135. Gerardus , c c Suarez to●n . de vi●tut & stai● relig. l. 4. de Sinon . c. 28 n. 1 , 2. 3. Suarez , d d Spalat●●sten●error . Suarez c. 3 n 939. Anton. de dom. arcb . Spal H●spinianus ; yet Justinianus ( ● ) 〈◊〉 16. q 7. himselfe forbiddeth that the Patron should present a man to the Bishop to bee examined and tryed , and certainly this place and charge for the defending of the Church of Christ from injuries and wrongs 〈◊〉 Christ of want of foresight and providence , who hath not appointed officers civill and e e Hospinian . de origi . templ . de or●g . bonor . eccles. c. 6. c. 7. f f Justiman . N●vel . 17. c. 〈◊〉 & c. 18. Nov. 123. eccle●●asticall to take care of his Church , for no power over the Church was ever given to builders of Synagogues , and therefore a calling by the Patron is no more Christs way , then a calling by the Prelate and his Chaplaine . 2. Nor would the Church receive the ministers from Christ Jer. 2. 5. and the laying on of the hands of the Elders , 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 2. 2. but by the authoritie of the Patron , who doth nominate the man , and may charge the Presbyterie , by Law to admit him minister of such a flock . Nor is it enough to say that the Patron doth present to such a benefit onely , and doth leave all the ecclesiasticall part to the Church , and the officers thereof , for this would say something , if the Patron were tied to the Churches free choise , whereas the contrary is true , that the Church is tyed to the Patrons free election of the man , but this is nothing , because the Patron being but one man onely , and so the Church can have no lawfull proprietie , right and dominion over the rents of the Church , for Christ is onely Lord and proprieter , and just titular of all rents dotted for the maintenance of the ministery , and under Christ , when the place vaiketh , the rents recurre to the Church , as the proper proprieter under Christ : as the goods of Ananias and Saphira are the goods of the Church , after they had given them in to the publick treasurie of the Church ; Ergo , the Patron can give no right to any person to bee presented and ordained , for no man can give to another that title and right which hee hath not in himselfe . If it bee said , hee may give in the Churches name , as the Churches Patron , those goods which are mortified to the Church , well , then is the Patron in the act of presenting the representative Church , and hath the Churches power ; Ergo , hee is but the Churches servant in that , and to doe at the Churches will , and the Church is the first presenter , this is a new representative Church , that wee have not heard of .

2. This is against the nature of the Patrons office , whose it is , when hee foundeth and buildeth a Church , to reserve the right of patronage to himselfe , and never to give that right to the Church ; Ergo , by his owne authoritie , and not in the Churches name , hee giveth title to the benefice , to the Pastor of Minister .

3. The Church hath not power to alien ate and dispose to one particular man , those goods which are given to God , and to his Church , so as that one hath power in Law to dispose those goods to any , without the Churches consent , as the Patron may doe . The Church may dispose and give power to one man to doe certaine actions in the Churches name , but yet so as the Church retaineth power to regulate that her delegate , or commissioner in these acts , and to correct him , in case of aberration ; but the Church hath no power over the Patron as Patron to limit him in the exercise of his power , for the right of Patronage is his by birth , he may sel it for mony to another ; to a Papist , to an excommunicate person , to a Jew , or an enemy of the Church , as hee may sell his lands and houses , and hath a civill right thereunto under his Majesties great Seale ; therefore the patron doth here , proprio suo jure , by his owne proper right , present and give title and Law to the Church benesice , and doth not present in name of Church , or as having from the Church a power .

3. What ever taketh away an ordinance of Christ , that is not lawfull : but the power of Patrons taketh away the ordinance of Christ , and the free election of the People , because the people have power to choose out of many one fittest , and most qualified , for the office ; as is cleare , Act. 6. 3. Act. 1. v. last . Act. 14. 23. because the man chosen should bee one of a thousand , as g g A●●● da●nas . pag. 332. Didoclavius or Calderwood saith in that learned Treatise , called Altare Damascenum . Nor can it be said ( saith that learned Author ) that the Church may transferre her right of presenting to a Patron , for that is in effect to transferre her power of election , but that ( saith hee ) . the particular Church cannot doe except by the decrce of a gener all assembly , neither can that right bee transferred over to a generall assembly , especially a perpetuall and hereditary right , because ( as saith h h Cartwright 2. reply , ● pa●t . pag. 226. Cartwright ) it is a part of that libertie , which is purchased by Christs blood , which the Church can no m●re alienate and dispose , then shee can transferre or dispose to another her inheritance of the kingdome of God , to the which this libertie is annexed : thus he .

4. The discerning of the spirits , and the knowing of the voyce of Christ speaking in his called servants , is laid upon the flocke of Christ , whose it is to elect , but not upon the Patron , which may bee a Heathen , and a Publican , and as such is no member of the Church .

5. Every humane ordinance not warranted by Christs Tostament , and abused to sacriledge , rapine , delapidation of Church-rents , and Simoniacal pactions with the intrants into the holy ministery , is to bee abolished , and is unlawfull : but the right of patronages is such as experiences teacheth to many and lamentable . The proposition is above cleared .

6. That calling in part or in whole , which giveth no ground of faith , and assurance of a lawfull calling to the Ministers entry to that holy charge , cannot belawfull ; but the calling to the ministery by the good will and consent of the Patron as Patron , is such . Ergo. The proposition is cleare , every lawfull meane and way of entry unto that calling is warranted by a word of promise , or precept , or practise ; the calling by the patrons consent , hath neither word of promise , or precept , or practise in the Word ; and stayeth not the conscience of the man of God , that hee did not runne unsent : but a man is never a whit the more staid in his conscience , that hee is presented by a Patron , to the tithes , and parsonage and vicarage of such a Congregation . It is but a cold comfort to his soule , that the Patron called him .

7. What ever priviledge by the Law of nature all incorporations have to choose their owne rulers and officers , this Christ must have provided in an eminent manner to the Church : but all cities , societies , incorporations and kingdomes have power to choose their owne rulers , officers , and members , as is cleare by an induction of all free colledges , societies , cities and republicks . Ergo , this cannot bee laid upon a Patron ; see for this also i i Amesius , de c●nscient . l. 4. c. 25 q 5. n. 23 , 24. Amesius , k k Gul. Ap l 〈…〉 . in sac a sect . 2 c. 1. pag. 61 , 162. Guliel . Apollonius , who citeth that of l l Athanasius epist ad solitariam ●●●am agentes . Uhille Canon ut a palatio mittatur is , qu● sutu● us est Epis●opus : Ath●nasius , Where is that Canon in the Word , that the sent Minister of Christ , is sent from the Court , or the Princes Pala●e ?

As concerning the other two , this author condemneth Lands dedicated to the ministery , because the New Testament speaketh nothing of such Lands .

Answ. This speaketh against Glebes of Ministers , but the New Testament speaketh not of Manses or houses , or of moneys for Ministers ; yet a wage wee know is due , Matth. 10. 10. 1 Cor. 9. 8 , 9 , 10. Gal. 6. 6. and the Levites were not to bee distracted from the most necessary worke of the Tabe●●acle , and service of God , more then Ministers , yet they had Lands and Townes assigned of God to them ; though the lesse dis●ract●ous the wages bee , the better , and the more convenient they are , 2 Tim. 2. 3. 4. 5. As for the tithes wee thinke quotta decimarum , or a sufficient maintenance , of tithes , or what else may conduce for food and raiment , of divine right , Matth. 10. 16. 1 Cor. 9. 8 , 9. tithes formally as tithes are not necessary , so the Ministers bee provided , and a stipend bee allowed to them , not as an almes , but as a debt , Luk. 10. 7. But the stinting of maintenance for Ministers the author condemneth , because when Constantine gave large rents to the Church , it proved the lane of the Church .

But I answer , stinting maketh not this , but excesse , for mountaines of rents may bee stinted , no lesse then mole-hills .

In the first proposition Pastors are to bee chosen of new , in England , though they have beene Pastors before , and that by the imposition of the hands of some gracious and godly Christians .

Answ. Such an ordination wanteth all warrant in the Word of God . 2. Why are they ordained over againe , who were once ordained already ? belike you count them not Ministers , and baptisme administred by them , no baptisme , though these same gracious Christians have beene baptized by such , and so England hath no Church visible at all , and no ministry ; see what you lay upon Luther and some of our first reformers , who had their externall calling from Antichristian Prelates , the same very thing which Papists lay upon them . 3. If there bee called Pastors in England to lay on hands on Ministers , why are not they to impose hands on such as you judge to bee no ministers ? because possibly the Prelates laid hands upon them , seeing you grant Chap. 5. Sect. 9. where there are Presbyters to lay on hands , it is convenient that ordination should bee performed by them . I confesse I am not much for the honoring of the Prelates foule fingers , yet can they not bee called no Pastors , no more then in right wee can say , Caiaphas was no High Priest .

Proposition 6. Hee willeth Pastors , and Doctors , and Elders to bee put in the ●●●me of Parsons and Vicars .

Answ. If the offices of Parson and Vicar bee set up , it is reason they be abolished , but for the names there is not much necessitie of contending , though in such cases it bee safer to speake with the Scripture , then with Papists : the Vicar Generall is indeed the Bishops delegat , and a creature to bee banished out of the house of God , of whose unprofitable place & stile , see that learned writer m m Alta● da●●● . par . 458. D●●id Calderwood , who findeth him to bee made of the metall of the Popes service , base Copper not Gold . n n 〈…〉 and the Popish parson is as the Vicar ; Firewood for Antichrists Caldron .

In the 12. and 13. Propositions , it is said , that it is necessary 〈◊〉 Preachers countenanced from King , and State , were sent to 〈◊〉 to congregations generally ignorant , and prophane , and till they 〈…〉 measure of gracious reformation , as they can testifie their faith and repentance , it were meet they should never renew their C●●●nant made in baptism , nor yet have the Seales of the Covenant con●●●ed upon them , but till then they shall lament after the Lord , as the 〈◊〉 did when the Arke had beene long absent , 1 Sam. 7. 2.

Answ. In these Propositions most of all the Congregations of England , except some few following the way of independencie of Church government , though they bee baptized and professe the truth , are brought just to the state of Turkes and Indians willing to heare the Word , or of excommunicated persons , for they and their seede are to want the Scales , their children Bapti●me , themselves the Lords Supper . But 1. how can the 〈◊〉 in ordinary rebukes , and excommunication from the S●al● bee exercised upon these who are without , and no Churche as yet ? for while they sweare the Covenant , they are not Churches . 2. It is said , godly Preachers must bee sent to them , 〈◊〉 th●y 〈◊〉 reformed ; but why not godly Pastors ? because th●ugh these preachers preach unto them , yet exercise they no Pastorall care over them , because they are not yet a visible Church and flocke , and therefore have no more Pastors to care for their soules , then Turkes and Indians , and Preachers have 〈◊〉 a Pastorall relation to these , though baptized , and 〈◊〉 Christ , then to Indians , Jewes or Turkes , as our brethren teach , & a paterne of such flocks is not hard in the word , where ordinarily the word is preached to a number of people baptized , and yet baptisme denyed to all their seed , and the Lords Supper to themselves . 3. It is the same Covenant the author speaketh of here with the Church Covenant that 〈◊〉 and Judah made with God , and which they say essentially constituteth a Church , and hinteth at the Covenant of the Church of Scotland , sworne and subscribed by many thousands ign●rant and prophane , and who never came to such a measure of gracious reformation , as they can testifie their faith and repentance ; yet did this nation right in putting all to sweare and enter into a Covenant with God , for Israel , Deut. 29. where there was many who had not eyes to see , eares to heare , and a heart to understand , v. 3. 4. and where there were many rebellious and stiff-hearted , Deut. 31. 27. entered all of them into Covenant with God , Captaines , Elders , Officers , all the men of Israel , Deut. 29. v. 10. Little ones , wives , children , hewers of wood , &c. all which attained not to such a measure of gracious reformation . 2 Chron. 15. 9. all Judah and Benjamin , and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh , and out of Simeon , entered into a Covenant with God ; who after such Apostasie could not all have attained to that measure of gracious reformation , as to testifie their faith and repentance by prayer , conference , experiences of Gods wayes in their heart and confession , and yet the Author saith o o Chap. 1. Sect. 1. that there is no colour to conceive this way of entering into Church estate by Covenant , to be peculiar to the pedagogue of the Old Testament . 4. Israels lamenting after the Lord , 1 Sam. 7. 2. was not the repentance of a people , who was not a Church visible , but was onely a people to bee prepared for a Church State , and not fit to receive circumcision and the passoever ; as you conceive of the ignorant and prophane in England , which to you are no visible Churches ; for Israel at this time was a true visible Church . The rest of the propositions tending to reformation not discussed elsewhere , I acknowledge to be gracious and holy counsells , meet for a reformation . The Lord build his owne Temple in that Land , and fill it with the cloud of his glory .

FINIS .