SIR , I live in a place where there are many of those who call themselves Roman Catholicks : and though I care not much for disputing with them , for I seldom find any thing comes of it but anger and ill words , yet I cannot always avoid it : For some of them are my near Relations , and they sometimes put Books into my hands , and sometimes bring their Priest along with them to convince me ; and are still earnestly urging me to change my Religion , and to forsake the Church of England , telling me plainly that no Salvation is to be had out of the Church of Rome .

That I know is their common Doctrine , but it is so very unreasonable , and so horridly uncharitable , that this alone were enough to keep a man from becoming a Papist ; since if he thorowly embrace their principles , he must condemn all but those of their own way . And believe it , they had need to consider well how they can hope for mercy themselves , who pass so severe a sentence upon others . But thanks be to God , whatever they talk of St. Peters Keys , they are not hereafter to be our Judges , nor are salvation and damnation at their disposing . That God who will judg both us and them according to his own Gospel , will one day justifie and acquit thousands whom they have condemned . And therefore never be daunted by their insolent language and heavy censures . The very same you may sometimes hear from Quakers and others of the vilest Sects . For still the less reason , the more wrath and considence , that by bold and threatning talk they may fright people into their way , when they want good Arguments to perswade them .

I believe it is so , yet I 'le confess to you I am sometimes a little puzled with some of their subtle discourses : and therefore I would desire you to furnish me with plain answers to the chief of those arguments which they commonly insist on . These I think I can pretty well remember , having heard them so often ; but to help my memory , I have brought with me a little Book wherein they are contained , and from thence shall propose them .

I shall readily give you my assistance herein : Let me hear then how do they use to assault you ?

Those I have met with do commonly begin with telling me ( as I find it here also in some of the first pages of this their book ) That there is but one L●rd and one Faith , one Religion , and one Church , wherein a man can be saved , as there was but one Ark of Noah , wherein he and his family were preserved .

We easily grant that there is one true Religion ; even that which Christ hath revealed , and is therefore called the Christian Religion ; and there is one Catholick Church , viz. the whole body of Christian people who embrace this Religion . But there are many particular Churches which hold this same Faith , as of old the Church of Ierusalem , of Antioch , &c. so now of England , of Scotland , &c. What then can they infer hence to their purpose ?

That as Turks and Jews cannot be saved , so no more can Hereticks .

It still beseems us to be more careful for the saving of our own souls , than hasty in condemning of others . Wherefore let us leave the condition of such who never heard the Gospel , nor had any opportunity of hearing it , to the wise and just Judg of all the Earth , who will do right to all . As for Hereticks , they are such as deny some essential part of the Christian Faith , and therefore properly speaking are not Christians . But what 's all this to us .

They say that we of the Church of England are Hereticks , out of the Catholick Church , and therefore cannot be saved .

Say it they commonly do , but are never able to prove it , since we believe the whole Religion of our blessed Saviour contained in the holy Scriptures : We receive the ancient Creeds of the Church wherein is contained the summ of this Religion . How then are we Hereticks ?

Because we are not of the Roman Church , which is the congregation of those who own the Bishop of Rome to be Christs Vicar , and the visible Head of his Church , upon earth , which congregation they say is the Catholick Church , and the only true way to salvation , and they who are not of this communion are Hereticks and Sectaries .

This is the current Popish Doctrine , but had it been the opinion of the Primitive Church in the Apostles days or soon after , surely they would have given some such a definition as this of the Catholick Church , or at least have call'd it the Roman Catholick Church ; ( as Papists now do ) but it s neither so called in the Creed , nor this Article so explained by any Christian Writer in those days or long after .

Who then are to be reckoned as members of the Catholick Church ?

Even all good Christians through the whole world that do sincerely believe and obey the Gospel of our blessed Saviour . These are the true members of his Church , and all who profess to do so are the outward visible members of this Catholick Church . And in this sense we acknowledg ( with your Author ) that Christ hath always had a visible Church on Earth , and will be with it to the end of the world , nor sh●●● the Gates of Hell be able to prevail against it . Nor do we say ( as he charges us ) that the whole Church has been lost or put out ; but particular Churches in this place or that , as at Ierusalem , at Rome or any otherwhere , may fall into great decay , and at length into utter ruin . Yet still Christ will have a Church upon earth , still there will be men professing Christianity , to whom both Heathens , Jews , and all Infidels ought to joyn themselves .

Since then the Catholick Church signifies the whole society of Christian people where ever scattered over the face of the earth , it hence appears that they who assert the Church of Rome to be this Catholick Church , do thereby declare that there are no true Christians in the world but the Papists ( as we use to call them ) which seems to me very strange Doctrine . But yet may not a particular Church be in some sense stiled Catholick ?

Yes p●operly enough as it is a part of the Catholick Church , holding the same faith with it , and not schismatically dividing from it . And thus of old the Church of Rome might be stiled Catholick , and so might the Church of Ephesus , of Antioch , or any other place , to distinguish them from Hereticks and Schismaticks , that made factions and parties in their several Churches , and separated from their own lawful Bishops and Pastors .

Are not those Christian Churches which are commonly call●d Reformed Churches , parts of the Catholick Church ?

Yes , they are the best and soundest parts of it .

But why are they called Protestant and Reformed ?

Not to trouble you with the first particular occasion of the name Protestant , they are now generally stiled so because they protest against the errors and corruptions of the Roman Church , and have Reformed themselves from the same , according to the primitive pattern laid down in holy Scripture . So that when you hear tell of the Protestant Religion , or Reformed Religion , you are not to understand thereby any new Religion distinct from Christianity , but only the old Christian Religion in its native simplicity and purity , separate from all Popish additions . Nor do we say ( as I have told you ) that the Church was lost and now lately ▪ found out ; but this we say , that it was greatly corrupted , especially in these Western parts of the world , over which the Bishops of Rome had by ill arts usurped an authority . From which Usurpation our Rulers most justly and regularly delivered themselves , and afterwards with great care and consideration reformed our Church from those corruptions which were chiefly introduced and supported by that authority .

But they of that Church use to tell us ( and so does my Author here ) that all who are not of their communion are Sectaries , to whom by no means do agree the marks of the true Church , which yet they say are all of them evidently to be found in theirs .

Nothing more common than for adversaries to give one another very ill names , and that shall serve for half a confutation amongst ignorant people . But names alter not the nature of things . And as zealously as they of Rome do affect the name of Catholicks , I doubt not but upon search they will be found as notorious Sectaries as any in Christendom , whilst many of those whom they brand with that infamous title will appear to be true Catholick Christians , if there now be , or ever were any such in the world . And in order to the proof of this , pray let me hear what are those marks of the true Church ?

They are said to be chiefly four , that it is One , Holy , Catholick , and Apostolick Church ; and this , say they , cannot be said of any Protestant Church , and therefore not of our Church of England , which is by them reckoned among Sectaries .

By these marks let us be tried . Only take notice that no one particular Church can be stiled the Catholick Church , as if a part was the whole . But I say the Church of England ( which we are now chiefly concern'd to vindicate ) is a true and sound part of this One , Holy , Catholick and Apostolick Church , and all the marks of a true Church do much more clearly and fully agree to it than to the Church of Rome . But let me hear what they object to the contrary .

First they say it is not One , that is , it is not united because there are so many divisions in it . Some will be Protestants , some Presbyterians , others Independents , Anabaptists , Quakers , &c. Nor can they be one , whilst they acknowledg not one Head to determine controversies . Whilst on the other hand the Papists pretend that they have this one Head , one Faith , the same Sacraments , and so are all of one Religion , and therefore having so much unity , are to be own'd by this mark for the true Church , &c.

In answer to this consider (1) That it cannot with any pretence of reason or Scripture be made the mark of a true Church , that there shall be no divisions in it . For were there not some to be found in the best and purest Churches immediately planted by the Apostles themselves ? As particularly in the Church of Corinth , for which they are severely reproved , 1 Cor. 1. 10 , 11 , &c. (2) Much less doth it become those of the Church of Rome to accuse others of divisions , who have more and greater amongst themselves than can be found , I believe , in any other Church in Christendom . They talk of one Head , but sometimes they have had two or three Popes at once , and that for several years together . They are divided in points fundamental to their own Church , as whether the Pope be above a General Council , or the Council above the Pope . Nor are they any more agreed where the Infallibility of which they boast so much , is seated , than about the Supremacy ; whether it be in the Pope , or in a General Council , or in both together : Yea , some say 't is neither in one or the other , nor in both united , as considered apart from the rest , but in the whole body of the faithful , as by them Religion is convey'd from one generation to another . And are they not much better for an Infallible Judg of controversies , whilst they are not yet agreed who he is , and where this Infallibility is to be found ? In a multitude of other points are they divided , as learned Writers of our Church have shewn at large ; and with great probability have some asserted that they hardly agree universally amongst themselves in any Doctrines but those wherein they agree with us . (3) But again were they never so well united amongst themselves , yet is this but the agreement of a Sect with it self , and is far from proving them to be therefore the Catholick Church , or any sound part of it . As if suppose all the Qu●kers were perfectly agreed together in all opinions , and imagin their number was as great as the Papists , are they therefore to be reckoned the Catholick Church , because forsooth they are One amongst themselves ? Surely no , since by their errors and their schism they divide themselves from all other Christians . Thus whilst Papists are united in owning the Pope to be Christs Vicar on earth , and the supreme visible Head over the whole Christian Church , they do hereby only make a sect or faction , let their number be never so great . And by this means as well as many other ill opinions and practices , which are imposed on the members of their Church , they do separate themselves from all other Christians in the world , who disown this Universal Headship of the Pope with the rest of their errors .

But they boast much of the Union of their Church , because say they , go where you will , you shall find the same Worship , the same Mass , and this frequented in all places , where their Church is owned , by the members of it .

Still this is but an Union amongst themselves ; such , I say , as any party may have . Quakers for instance may go to Quakers Meetings where ever they travel , and yet still remain a Schismatical party . And though I lay no great stress upon it , yet formerly even in the Church of Rome ( however it is now with them ) they have had much variety in their publick Offices , according to the different Usages of different places . But still I say , be they never so perfectly agreed in their own way of worship as well as in Doctrine , there is nothing in this to prove them the One Catholick Church : Nay it does not so much as prove them to be One with it as a sound part thereof , except their Doctrine and Worship be such as agrees with that of the Catholick Church in all ages . For any party I have told you may agree amongst themselves , even whilst they are schismatically divided from others .

But they say our Church of England is not thus united because many separate from her Prayers and Sacraments .

And what , is there no Unity therefore amongst the members of our Church , because there are some who through peevishness , weakness , or any other cause separate from it ? Does not the main body of the people of this Kingdom , through Gods mercy , joyn in Religious communion , and can freely resort to any Parish Church where they happen to be ? If some that live in the Nation will not thus joyn , is that an argument against the union of those that do ? In some Popish Countries are there not many thousands who separate from the Church of Rome ? And do they take that for a good reason to prove them not to be united who joyn with it ? I trow not but yet it may do much to prove there is little true union amongst them , to consider by what means they are held together , viz. partly by force and violence ( at least in many places ) and partly by keeping the people in ignorance . And is it not a fine kind of union , think you , to have men chain'd together in Iron fetters , and kept in a dark Dungeon , where they are not able to stir a foot from each other , had they never so much mind ? And had the people in Italy and Spain but more light and more liberty , you would quickly see what vast numbers would depart from their communion there , as they have done in other places . But ignorance is the bond of their union as well as the mother of their Devotion .

Yet is there nothing more common with them than to cry up the Unity of their Church , and to exclaim against the divisions which they say are in ours .

They exclaim against them , whilst more ways than one they endeavour to promote them . They use also their utmost arts to aggravate and enhance them , and make them be thought much greater than they are , whilst they cunningly endeavour to lessen and conceal those amongst themselves , which yet I reckon to be far greater than even those betwixt our Church and the generality of such as dissent from it . And sometimes these their differences have been managed with as much heat and violence , and have produced fighting and bloodshed , as you will find largely related in the most learned Dr. Stillingfleet's Discourse on that subject . But besides this , certainly the Papists of all people have little reason to cry out against Schismaticks and Sectaries , since they themselves will be found to be as great Schismaticks as any at this day amongst us , and as dangerous too , if we may judg of them by their principles . For besides that the whole Popish Church may justly be accounted Schismatical in dividing it self from the rest of Christendom ( of which more hereafter ) those of them who live amongst us do wholly separate from our Church and pass a much more heavy doom upon us than I think most of our other Sectaries do . For these do generally acknowledg the Church of England to be a true Church , and grant her Doctrine to be sound and good , and profess to hold communion with us in faith and love , whilst they withdraw from us on account of some Modes and Ceremonies in Divine Worship . Thus it is with many of them , but now the Papists do plainly declare against our Church and Ministers , that we have no true Faith nor Sacraments , nor Christian virtue or piety , but are cursed Hereticks in the most miserable state of damnation . And all this chiefly because we submit not to the usurpation of a foreign power , that of the Pope , which at least in Spirituals they prefer before the power of our own Governours , whether in Church or State . So that in obedience to the Bishop of Rome , who hath no more to do in England than the Bishop of Ierusalem , they make no scruple of disobeying the King and Bishops , and all the Laws of the Land ; at least I say in all matters that relate to Religion . And whilst the Pope himself is Judg in the case what may he not hook in under that pretence ? And therefore may the Papists amongst us justly be reckoned as Schismaticks , whilst they refuse communion with that Christian Church where they live , which is a sound part of Christs Catholick Church , and requires nothing unlawful of its members . And very dangerous they are because they prefer a foreign Usurper before all the power of our own Church . Especially if you also consider the current Doctrine of their Church , that this same Usurper the Bishop of Rome has power to depose Heretical Kings ( as they account ours ) and to absolve their subjects from their Allegiance , and dispose of their Kingdoms to others . And this most intollerable tyranny over Princes have sundry Popes exercised when they have had power in their hands , and have more than once attempted it in these Kingdoms . Yea , to this day many of the rigid and stricter sort of Papists refuse to take the Oath of Allegiance , wherein this extravagant power of the Pope is denied . Judg then whether I had not reason to say that men retaining these principles and on that account rejecting our communion , are themselves such notorious and dangerous Schismaticks as have little reason to accuse others of schisms and divisions .