Sir , it is now near Sun-setting , I would be much obliged to you , if you would be pleased to lodg at my house this night .

I would be nearer the Church , ere I take up my lodging ; for I use to make my Sabbath-days journeys as short as I can .

You will be nighted ere you can come where you can have any tollerable lodging , and you may with ease reach the Church to morrow before Sermon-time .

Well , I am content to stay with you .

I assure you of welcom . When you have taken some refreshment , I shall within a little advertise you when to come to the Family-exercise ; and after Supper I shall desire half an hours conference about a particular , with which I will not now trouble you .

I use to be heavy after Supper , I had rather take a little time just now , or , if the matter be fit for a Sabbath-days discourse , we may confer upon it to morrow in our way to the Church .

It is almost all the matter of some folks discourse upon the Sabbath ; but for my self , though I am sometimes a hearer of such discourses upon the Sabbath , I have no great pleasure in them , for I find not my self edified by them , as I was wont to be with the discourses which we used long since to have upon the Lords day . As for going to the Church with you to morrow , I desire you would excuse me in that matter , for I have not clearness to hear Indulged Ministers ; but you shall not want company , for there are several of my Family , who have clearness to hear , and I dare not hinder them .

I commend you , in that you do not impose your opinion in that matter upon others : but did you not once hear Indulged Ministers ?

I did ; but I have more light about the Indulgence than I had ; and I am much confirmed in withdrawing from hearing , by a Preacher who is in the next Chamber ; and , if you will , I shall call him to the conference about the Indulgence ; for this is the conference which I designed to trouble you with after Supper .

I think it very fit that you call him .

I have over-heard you , and half an invitation is enough to ingage me in that conference which ye design ; but I desire , Sir , that you and our Landlord may enter upon it , and I shall speak when I think it convenient .

Seeing you did once hear the Indulged Minister , who is setled in this Parish , why did you withdraw from hearing him ?

It is very confidently said , by those who are acknowledged for able men , and very zealous , that the Indulged are not the Ministers of Christ , but of men .

It is as confidently said , by as able and zealous men , That the Indulged Ministers are the Ministers of Christ , and not the Ministers of men . But our faith and practice must not be ruled by mens sayings , how confident soever the sayers be : Ye know the Reformed Churches have , with detestation , rejected that error of the Popish Doctors , that people should implicitely , that is , in effect blindly believe all that they say , and do all that they direct .

But do you think , Sir , that so able and zealous Preachers would deceive us poor people ?

I do not say , that they would deceive you ; but seeing able and zealous , yea , and godly men may themselves be deceived ( for the best of men are fallible , and may err in many things , so long as they have corruption remaining in them , and know but in part ) , they may deceive others in those things in which they are themselves deceived , though they do not design to deceive either themselves or others . But I wonder how any can have the confidence to say , that they are not the Ministers of Christ : were they not ordained Ministers by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery ?

I acknowledg that they were ordained in the way appointed by Christ to feed the flock of God .

Do they not Preach the wholesome words of Christ , and not the inventions and Doctrines of men ?

I cannot deny that , for they Preach the Doctrine contained in the Scriptures , which was taught to us in our best times ; I hear of no change in their Doctrine .

Sir , we do not question their Ordination , they had their Potestative Mission from Christ by the Presbytery ; and if we should deny them to be lawfully called , and sent to Preach the Gospel , we should condemn the Ordination , and calling of all Presbyterian Ministers ; nor do we deny that they Preach the Gospel , and administrate Gospel Ordinances according to Christs institution ; nor do we charge them with Preaching the Doctrines of men .

Seeing ye grant that they are sent of God , and that they speak the words of God , and not the Precepts and Doctrines of men , why deny you them to he the Ministers of Christ , and alledg that they are the Ministers of men ?

They have renounced their former Mission , which they had from Christ , and have now their Potestative Mission from the Magistrate , and have subjected their Ministry in a direct line of Subordination to the Magistrates cognizance , as inferiour Civil Courts are unto the superiour ; and they have received their instructions , for regulating them in the exercise of their Ministry , from the Magistrate .

I have seen these things , which you say , Written and Printed , but they are so manifestly false , that I wonder how any could write them , and I am sorry to hear you repeat them as if they were true ; for the Magistrate did not so much as pretend to ordain them , or to make them Ministers ; for the Act of Indulgence supposes them to be Ministers , and only permits them , or puts them to the exercise of the Ministry . Those Ministers were so far from renouncing their dependance on Christ , and their Mission from him , that they at the first acceptance of the Indulgence , declared to the Council , that they were the Ministers of Christ , that they had received their Ministry from Christ ; and they were so far from subjecting their Ministry , and the matters of their Ministry , to the Magistrates pleasure , that they declared , that they were the servants of Christ in these matters , and that they would behave , as became the faithful Ministers of Christ ; and they were so far from receiving the Magistrates instructions , that they declared they could not receive from the Magistrate instructions intrinsecally Ecclesiastical , to regulate them in the exercise of their Ministry ; and the Author of the History of the Indulgence grants , that Mr. Blair did give a faithful testimony against these instructions , and that Mr. Hutcheson said the same upon the matter with Mr. Blair ; and as these Ministers did by word , in the presence of the Council , shew that they could not accept of such instructions of their Lordships making , and imposing , and did design them impositions ; so their practice did evidence , that they did not accept of these instructions ; and any who will but read Mr. H's speech at the first Indulgence , in which he asserts , That as they had received their Ministry from Christ , and full prescriptions to regulate them in the exercise of their Ministry , so they were to discharge it , as they would be accountable to Christ ; will wonder how any person , let be a Minister , who had read that speech , could harbour any such ugly injurious thoughts of these Ministers , and much more that any could deliberately write and Print such horrid falshoods and reproaches of honest Ministers .

If you doubt of the truth of what I have said , I desire you may read the History of the Indulgence , and you shall find these things which I have said here , recorded there .

That cannot be denied , but that Historian says , that upon the matter the Indulged Ministers renounced , &c.

That addition of the words upon the matter , is but a meer blind , it may beguile simple people , but no judicious person will be deceived by it , seeing there is nothing either in the matter or form of what these Ministers said , or did , which doth import any such thing , as that Historian alledges ; and although these Ministers had said nothing of their receiving their Ministry from Christ , &c. before the Council , it had been a very uncharitable construction to have construed their silence to be a renunciation of their dependance on Christ , &c. but it 's a horrid injury to charge them with the renunciation of that which they expresly own before the Magistrate .

But Sir , have not they their Ministry , and the exercise of their Ministry in these Parishes , from the Magistrate ?

They have their Ministerial calling , or which is all one , Authority , to exercise the acts of their Ministerial Office , from Jesus Christ , as the fountain of their spiritual power ; and this Ministerial Authority flowing from God , was conveyed to them by the Presbyteries , by which they were ordained Ministers according to Christ institution . But they have the peaceable publick exercise of their Ministry , in these places , by the Magistrate , under God . It 's the Magistrates civil Authority , by which the penal Statutes , which rendered their Preaching hazardous , are removed , or relaxed ; by the protection of Civil Authority , they have the peaceable exercise of their Ministry , or they have freedom from molestation or disturbance , while they are exercising their Ministry in these places . Before the Act of Indulgence they had their Ministerial Authority , and did Preach upon hazard before they were Indulged ; but by the Indulgence they had this benefit , that whereas before it , they were exposed to hazard wherever they Preached , whether in private or publick ; after it , they might Preach publickly , and exercise the other parts of the Ministerial Office , in some places , without molestation .

Their accepting of the Indulgence , and the peoples hearing of them who have accepted the Indulgence , is an Homologation of the Supremacy .

Sir , I beseech you make use of some other word than that long word , with the four O's in it ; for though I have often heard it , I ingeniously profess I do not understand it . I always thought , that many of our Country people rendered themselves ridiculous , by learning to speak words , like Parrots , which they did not understand .

That 's not the worst of it ; for when poor people are once brought to speak confidently they wot not what , they may be brought next to do they know not what ; and to stumble they know not at what : As it was indiscreetly done to bring in this long Greek word among unlearned people , so this word is miserably misapplyed in the business of the Indulgence ; for to homologate , is to say what was before said , in the same or like words ; as when in a Court one declares his mind in some matter , and another rises up after him , and says the same which he said , in the same , or like words ; this last speaker is said to homologate what the other said before him . Now the Indulged Ministers , when they accepted the Indulgence , were far from saying that the Magistrate had a Spiritual Supremacy , or an absolute Supremacy ; they never said it , they never thought it ; they declare , that the Magistrate hath not the power of the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven at all , and much less a Supremacy of Spiritual power ; and they declare , that the Magistrate may not do what he pleases in Ecclesiastical matters ; for all things in the Church of God must be done according to the will of the God of Heaven , and not according to the will of man ; they were so far from saying any thing for the Magistrates Spiritual or absolute Supremacy , or any thing that sounded that way , that they said much to the contrary , as appears in their speeches before the Council ; and as they said nothing sounding this way , so they did nothing in accepting the peaceable exercise of their Ministry , which did any way import any approbation of any unlawful Supremacy ; they grant , that the King is Supreme Civil Governour of his Kingdoms ; and that it belongs to the Magistrate , as Magistrate , to take off civil restraints , which hinder Ministers from the peaceable exercise of their Ministry ; and that the Magistrate should permit and allow Ministers to exercise their Ministerial Office in his Dominions ; and when the Magistrate did this in the Indulgence , he did not exercise any unlawful Supremacy , but did exercise that lawful Authority which he hath from God , for good ; and when they made use of the liberty granted by the exercise of lawful Authority , they did not approve of any sinful Supremacy , but did approve , and make use of that lawful power which the Magistrate hath from God . All Orthodox Divines grant , that the Magistrate not only may , but should permit , allow , countenance , and protect the exercise of the Ministry of the Gospel in his Dominions ; and when there is need , the Magistrate may command and compel Ministers to do the work of their Office , as appears from the Books of Discipline of the Church of Scotland .

Sir , I am feared to sin ; and we are told , that there is sin wrapt up in hearing Indulged Ministers .

We should be feared for sin , and for that sin , among the rest , of adding to the word of God ; they who make these actions , which are not transgressions of the Law , to be sins , do highly provoke God ; but they who make these actions which God not only permits , but also commands and commends , to be sins , they set themselves in the Throne of God , and annul his Law , and countermand the commands of the most high God : Sin , ye know , is the transgression of the Law of God ; before ye believe that the hearing Ministers of the Gospel Preach the Gospel , is sin , ye should require , that they who say so much , shew you what command of God is transgressed by your hearing Indulged Ministers ; for if ye be so easily driven from the worship of God by strong alledgments , the Devil can alledg as strongly , and suggest it importunately , that it is a sin to pray in your Family , in which it may be there are some profane persons ; and if ye be driven from Family-worship by such alledgances , he will alledg , that it is a sin for you to believe on the Name of the Lord Jesus ; and thus drill you from all exercises of Religion , publick , private , and secret .

But Sir , seeing I doubt if it be lawful to hear , I would be damned if I did hear ; for ye know the Apostole says , he that doubteth is damned , if he eat .

But if you take up doubtings , whether ye should do what God hath commanded , and that upon meer alledgances that these duties are sin , you lay your self open to the tentations of Satan , who by this method will drive you from all duty , and by your doubtings make void the law of God ; for he will strongly alledg , that it 's a sin to pray to God ; and if ye upon this doubt , if ye should pray , and then upon your doubting forbear praying , what comes of the command , That men must always pray , and not faint ? There is a great difference betwixt praying , hearing the word of God , and the eating of meats , which the Apostle speaks of in that fourteenth Chapter of the Epistle to the Romans , for it was once unlawful to eat of those meats which was discharged in the Ceremonial Law , and it was not necessary by any precept to eat of those meats ; so that the weak Christian who did not yet understand that the Ceremonial Law was abrogate , was under no obligation to eat of those meats ; it was lawful to those who knew their Christian liberty to eat ( providing they did not use their liberty unseasonably before weak ones , and so induce them to do what they judged unlawful ) and it was lawful to them to forbear ; the use of these things being at that time , as Mr. Rutherfurd shews in his Treatise of Scandal , every way indifferent .

The doubting of these weak ones , did arise from the Ceremonial Law , which was unquestionably the Law of God ; and there was no Law obliging them to eat of these meats at that time ; and so their doubting in such a case at that time , was a doubt very incident to those who did know the Law , and were tender of it ; and their knowledg that that Ceremonial Law was the Law of God , and their fear to break the Law of God , occasioned their doubting ; and there was no hazard of sin in forbearing to eat , but there was sin in eating , so long as their doubt remained ; and therefore the Lord would not have the strong eating before these weak ones , to wound their weak Consciences .

Hence it appears , that they who would from this place plead for their forbearing to pray or to hear the word of God , because , forsooth , they doubt if they should pray or hear Gods word ; they fearfully misapply and wrest that Scripture ; for this doubt is no ways like the Jews doubt , a-about eating of such or such meats ; for the Lord had once forbidden to eat of these meats , but he never forbad the hearing of his own Word , he never forbad prayer .

2. There was no command obliging these weak Jews to eat of these forbidden meats at that time ; but there is a command obliging us to hear the Word of God , and not to forsake the assembling of our selves together , not to despise prophecying , and obliging us to pray without ceasing .

3. These doubtings of the weak Jews was not damnable ; for they did not incur the hazard of damnation by their doubting , but by their eating with a doubting Conscience . But the doubting of these , who doubt if they should hear the Word of God , and if they should joyn with the Church of God in hearing the Word of God , in praying and praising , their doubting is damnable , and they should repel it with detestation and abhorrency , and not so much as listen to such a suggestion of the Devil , who goes about to make void the Law of God , by raising such prophane and godless doubtings in mens minds , that he may drive them from all Religious exercises , to gross profanity : And if people would observe what absurdities this doubting to hear Indulged Ministers , has produced , it might , through the blessing of God , be a means to clear them of these doubtings . I doubt not , but ye have heard of some , who from doubting to hear Indulged Ministers , have proceeded to doubt if they should hear any Ministers who were for hearing Indulged Ministers ; and some have gone that length , that they would hear none but those who were not only against hearing Indulged Ministers , but also Preached against the hearing of them ; and some have doubted themselves out of all hearing ; and some are come to that , that they will not joyn in private prayer with those who hear Indulged Ministers . It 's true wisdom and tenderness to repel doubts and scruples , which hinder us from the worship of God , or move us in it , that they may not get any entrance into our minds and consciences ; and if they have entered , we should cast them out with detestation .

But though that was granted , that there were no sin in hearing them ; yet seeing they are not the Ministers of those Congregations where they are setled , there is no obligation upon these people to hear them , seeing they are not their Ministers .

Some of them are in the Parishes where they were ordained Ministers by the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery . Others of them , who had no access to the Congregations where they were ordained , were cordially invited by vacant destitute Congregations ; and the Ministers concerned , approved of the peoples invitation , and of the Ministers going to these Parishes upon the peoples invitation . And what more could be expected in a broken time , when Presbyterial Government was broken , and General Assembles , Synods , Presbyteries , dissolved , and Presbyterian Ministers turned out of their Churches , and dispersed and scattered through the Nation ? If these Congregations cast at these Indulged Ministers , and disown them as not their Ministers , and so think themselves loosed of all obligation to hear them , they shake themselves loose of any obligation to hear any Ministers ; for no other Ministers can pretend such interest in these Congregations as they really have , upon the grounds which I mentioned . If you be not obliged to hear the Indulged Minister , who is in your Parish , because he is not your Minister , then upon the same ground ye are not obliged to hear any outed Ministers , who occasionally come alongs to Preach ; for they are not Ministers of this Congregation : And if ye be obliged to hear them , though they be not Ministers of this Congregation , why are ye not also obliged to hear the Indulged Ministers , though they were not Ministers of these Congregations ? They who shake themselves loose of any relation to the Indulged Ministers , will very easily shake themselves loose of any obligation to hear others . And this is the thing which the Devil designs , to cast the people loose of all relation to Ministers , and of all obligation to hear any , whether Indulged , or no Indulged . And he hath gained this design , as to some , who are come to that , that they think not themselves obliged to hear any , except it be one or two whom they think the only witnesses ; and others think themselves obliged not to hear these , and think it much better to hear none , than to hear these , who teach such strange , and wild conceits , which tend to the confusion both of the Church and Kingdom ; and many finding , that all obligation to hear any Ministers , is called in question , and that the hearing of Ministers depends upon their own pleasure , they are better pleased to stay at home on the Sabbath , than to go any where , to hear any Minister ; and this is like to prevail with people who have not any true principle of Religion ; for this is an easie way , and pleasing to flesh and blood .

The Indulged Ministers , do not bring forward the whole Reformation with them ; they have no Presbyteries , Synods , General Assemblies ; they have quit these : Our godly Ancestors would have taken nothing , except they had gotten all , they would not have quit with a hoof ; and seeing it is so , how should we own them , or hear them , who are so far degenerate from the zeal of the Ministers of Christ who lived in former times ?

This reason , if it were good , would cast all the Ministers who are not Indulged , as well as the Indulged ; for they want Presbyteries , Synods , and General Assemblies ; in the fields , or houses where they Preach , they do not bring the whole frame of Presbyterian Government along with them where they come to Preach ; and if you do not disown them , because they want general Assemblies , &c. why should you disown Indulged Ministers upon this account ? Will you add affliction to the afflicted ? And because the Lord in his righteous Judgments hath taken away these solemn Courts of his House , which were great blessings to the Church , and hath scattered his Servants ; will ye as far as in you lies , deprive them of the power of Preaching the Gospel , because they have not access to the exercise of Government ? This looks like a judicial infatuation , to cast at any remnant of Gods Ordinances , because ye have not all ; doth this look like humility ? or looks this like the frame of the Godly Israelites , who when the stately Temple was ruined , yet took pleasure in the Stones of Zion , and favoured the Dust thereof ?

2. General Assemblies , Synods , Presbyteries , were taken away long before the Indulgence ; and therefore 't is a foolish Calumny which hath no shadow of likelihood , that the Indulged Ministers by accepting the Indulgence , did quit these Courts ; for they were quit and gone before the Indulgence ; the Indulged Ministers got somewhat of that which they formerly had , liberty to Preach without hazard in some places , and to keep Church-Sessions ; but they quit nothing when they accepted of that .

3. 'T is a great wrong done to our Ancestors , to alledge that they were such humorous Fools , that they would take nothing from the Magistrate if he withheld any thing which was due to the Church : They did indeed desire all the Churches priviledges , but they took what they could get , and made the best use of it in the mean time , till more came .