The relection of a conference touching the reall presence. Or a bachelours censure of a masters apologie for Doctour Featlie. bachelours censure of a masters apologie for Doctour Featlie. / By L.I. B. of Art, of Oxford.

ANSWER TO THE EPISTOLARIE PROLOGVE .

BEfore your Apologie be diuers Epistles scarce worth reading : not worth answering . In one of them which is to S. E. you quarrell with him , first for concealing his name . you sawe the first letters of it , enough to owne the book . He was not to make it further knowne to such as you , who vex your Antagonists more with Pursuiuants then with Arguments . Had I been the man I might haue told you further that your prophetick wit had half speld the letters , begining your Epistle to him thus , Sir Refuter , in concealing your name &c. S. you read sir , the title of a Barchelour . Dimidium facti qui benè coepit habet .

Secondlie you quarrell with him for saying that my Lord of Calcedon is a Doctour of Deuinitie , and of Oxford , ( he told Featlie so when they met , ) whereas it is conceaued , Suprà pag. 8. say you , that his Lordship can shew no testimonie of his degree taken , then his owne hand . Yet he can , Master Waferer , as good , not to say better , then your Doctour can , for his , and deriued from that Authoritie which is able to erect Vniuersities , and hath established all , that indeed giue degrees in Deuinitie . The authorizing of that power which is to giue publik testimonie of abilitie in highest learning , and to declare a man fit to teach it ( teaching of Deuinitie being a matter of great consequence in the Christian Societie ) doth appertaine to the See Apostolique . And he who can erect an Academie , can make one to be of it .

Thirdlie you tax him as if he had said that my Lord , Suprà pag. 10. after he was Bishop , had challenged Featlie , in England . you shall haue your answer in the end of the Censure . meane while , he who reades the words of S. E. will see that you mistake and misreport him .

In another of your Epistles you shew the streingth of your phantasie which hath suddainlie shrunk S. E. into the littenes of a pigmie , and magnified Featlie into a tall Giant . ( He S. E. ) is , say you , far belowe the answer of D. Featlie : who lookes , be like , ouer him as the Deuil did ( the word is ) ouer Lincolne . But , if your Champion be so far aboue , may it not be ( waigh them againe ) because he is in this cause , minus habens .

You adde that some weaker pen ( your owne ) may foile him . But you beginne to crow to soone . Were you borne with a crowne vpon your head ? if not , you must winne , before you sing your epinicia : & you must fight before you winne yet see ; this Pulius Martis crowes , againe ; the Conference , you saie , is so weaklie maintained that one who was at that time an infant is now growne strong enough to disable it . how ? strong enough ? you might haue left that rather to some friend of yours ; or to the iudgment of the Reader : who now perhaps , hearing you so soone commend your self before you come to tryall , will haue difficultie to beleeue that , that Infant which you speak of , is yet come to his age of discretion .

Neither haue you omitted to insinuate the method ( ouer and aboue lying and calumniating , ) which you meane to keepe in putting of , those things whereunto you cannot frame a seeming answer . Only smile , say you , at some passages and they are answered . They be answered then , sure : for your spleene is petulant . but , curandum plané ne risus rideatur .

— Solutos Qui captat risus hominum famamque dicaci●● Fingere qui non visa potest ; commissa tacere Qui nequit ; hic niger est : hunc tu Romane cauêto .

Who seeke occasion to laugh and Ieere : feigne things that are not ; babble all they heare .

Such black ones , Romane , do not thou come neere .

Thus farre your Epistolarie Prologue . I come now to

THE CENSVRE OF THE APOLOGIE .

THe Doctors first obiection was , that in the wordes of Institution there was a figure . It was Answered by the distinction of a double figure : one , hath the veritie io●ned with it ; and this kind of figure was admitted . Another hath not the veritie ioyned with it , and this kind of figure was denied to be in the wordes of institution .

THe Apologist .

Before I answer your Doctours distinction , I can not but challeng S. E. for smoothering our Doctours maine argument .

The Censure .

I neuer saw your face , yet I know you . By your voice ; by the beginning of your speach , by the verie opening of your mouth .

You can not but challeng . When man was first made , he was left ( the Scripture saith ) in manu consilii sui , fit to deliberate on his actions ; with power giuen him , freelie to choose , and do , what in discretion he thought best . And the wise do so still , when the they see no iust occasion , they can choose and do forbeare to intrude themselues into Disputes and questions that are aboue their reach , and in such matters to presume to teach and correct and challeng others that haue spent more time therein . Which wisdome and discretion be the first things of many which I misse in you , who are at this present so disposed that you can not forbeare ; you can not but challeng . A Martialist sure from your natiuitie .

It were good wee knew whom you meane to set vpon , that others be out of feare . In the prosecution of Which Inquirie I meete another of your indiscretions . You know not yet the man ; onlie you haue seene two letters of his name ; but were he some Deuine ( though your self be but a smattrer in the Science , it matters not , you are resolued and do challeng him .

May not the matter betwixt you ( which you know was neuer any ) be taken vp ? No : by no meanes . Hath he donne you any wrong ? None at all . Why then must you challeng , and him rather then some other ?

For smoothering the Doctours Argument . Are you the Doctour ? No ; sure you are not ; I know you by your voice . Yet me thought when I toucht your booke first , I perceaued Esaws hand . The more circumspect must I be , comming to deale With so monstrouse an Aduersarie , that hath more handes then one man .

Well : we haue had a sight of your one half ; we know your genus , one that cannot but challenge . But such there may be perchance more , that are indiscreetlie determined to challeng , What is your difference let vs see that .

Ap.

Before I Answer your Doctors distinction I can not but challeng . You doe not onlie challeng then , & that without discretion , for you can not but do so : but you Answer distinctions also . This indeede euerie challenger doth not . It is your difference , this . Neither woods nor villages breed any such challengers . So yow we haue from you , and of you , a definition , at least a Description , taken according to the qualitie which heere you come to shew .

I desire not to take away what God hath giuen you ; your wit Master Waferer , is not the slowest : and your vnderstanding seemeth to be good enough were it out of the bondes of errour . But that humour which makes you raise your selfe aboue the Church , and iudge , and condemne & contemne it , being seconded with the passion of a Spirit whollie Puritanicall , hat● blinded your vnderstanding , and so turned your wit awry , that had your friends loued you well they should not haue let you looke abroad in this publik manner . For , the condition of the world is such that possiblie some will laugh at Mirth , and say

Why , man ! you in your gowne and cap ! be distinctions to be answered ? are you yet to learne the difference betwixt an Answer and an Argument , betwixt a buckler and a sword , and yet can not but challeng ? Ludere qui nescit — But I pray you Sir , will you meete at cuggels , or at sharp ? not at sharp belike , for that were dangerous ; your cause might haue holes made in it . no , not at sharpe . But , such as you thinke will strike with bucklers onlie , you can not but challenge . Thus freelie will they speake to your face . But , what will your Academians do behind your back ?

O Iane , à tergo quem nulla ciconia pinsit , Nec manus auriculas imitata est mobilis . The two fac't man was happie in his kind ▪ That none did mock him ; for he saw behind . Apologist .

For smothering our Doctours maine Argument .

Censure .

Not he . It was choked with a distinction . All his labour was to bring it forth into the light ; which is far from smothering .

Apologist .

He makes him beginne to dispute at the third syllogisme .

Censure .

The substance of your Doctors Argument is related and answered to the full . The preambles which you misse had rusted in the paper of Argumentes he brought with him , had he not drawne them long after , for the print . The good soldier doth not esteeme a florish amongst strokes : when his aduersarie comes to strike , he stands his ground , and encounters ; pede pes , densusque viro vir : but whilst offers are made onlie a farre of , he smiles at the follie . To beate the aire is no conquest for a man .

The summe of your Doctors flourishing ( which you call the maine argument ) as far as it is pertinent to the first obiection , is this . The Catholik tenet of the reall presence hath no ground in Scripture , Ergo. the Antecedent is proued ; because if there were any ground in Scripture for it , it were Matth. 26. or Ioh. 6. but in neither of these : Ergo. The Minor proued , because these wordes Matth. 26. This is my body , are to be vnderstood figuratiuelie . At which proofe the Catholike Relator did beginne : and therin he did your Doctor more honor in the estimation of such as might be able to distinguish a graue Scholler from a trifling Punie , then if he had wire-drawne his discourse into more parts , importing but the same : and for the leading Enthimeme , traced in this , with a Coxcomb in his forhead , Positio quam defendis falsa est ; Ergo falleris .

But if I mistake not your pulse , another thing it is that grieues you , which you doe not complaine of . Your Doctors argument was presentlie cut of , with a distinction , in so much that he was faine to take another , and from Scripture ( which onlie you thinke able to warrant a tenet in matter of faith ) to passe to the Fathers : whom notwithstanding , you do not hold to be infallible in their Iudgment , as he was told at the same time . For auoiding of which disgrace in changing so soone and so oft his Medium , he hath premised a syllogisme with all kind of medium's in it ; that so changing neuer so oft , he might be said neuer to change . As if I should argue thus

That doctrine which hath ( 1 ) no foundation in the word of God , and is ( 2 ) repugnant to the doctrine of the true auncient Church , & ( 3 ) ouerthroweth the principles of right reason , implying ( 4 ) palpable absurdities , and apparent ( 5 ) contradictions , is to be reiected as erroneous and hereticall . This is Featlies Maior . I subsume .

But Caluins doctrine of the Eucharist , is such . Quamuis incredibile sit in tanta locorum distantia carnem Christi ad nos penetrare vt sit nobis in cibum , tamen meminisse debemus quantum arcana Spiritus Sancti supra captum nostrum emineant , & debet fides concipere quod mens non comprehendit . Though it be incredible that the flesh of Christ should penetrate vnto vs in so great a locall distance , to be our meate ; yet wee must call to minde how much the secrets of the holy Ghost are aboue our capacitie ; and faith must conceaue what the vnderstanding is not able to comprehend . Caluinus lib. 4. Institut. cap. 17.

Ergo Caluins doctrine of the Eucharist is to be reiected as erroneous and haereticall .

Let me call this , my maine argument ; and I will leap from place to place , all the Topicks ouer ; without changing my Medium : iust as your Champion doth .

Now touching this Argument : you will thinke that by denying the Minor , you do satisfie for the present , till further proose be made : why then should not our Defendents deny all be satisfaction enough for yours , in that which , M. Featly barely had affirmed ? and for the rest , which was one parte onlie , ( the first ) which he did vndertake to prosecute , an Answer met his proofe and dispatcht it . Which made you step out into the list , to do , you knew not ( for feare ) what , or against whom . At last , it was resolued vnder your Cap , that you would answer the distinction : but , ( because it were to much for Hercules himself to deale with two at once ) you would first of all challeng S.E. for smothering the maine Argument . Wherunto his Answer , I know , would be this , that it was fullie satisfied and dispatched , there being nothing obiected which was not directlie answered , either by denyall , if it were barely affirmed ( euen according to the relation of your owne Doctor ; ) or by distinction of a terme in the proofe of that which was vndertaken ; as in his Notes you find more at large .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith would father a false opinion vpon vs , that we hold there is a meere figure in the words , This is my body : whereas wee most plainly affirme that the Sacramentall elementes are not meere emptie signes of the body and blood of Christ , but a true and liuely figure of them .

Censure .

First you challeng ; and next you giue the lie ; wherein you shew your self more cholerick then mindfull . Are not you the man who maintaine that a proposition cannot be mixt : partlie proper , and partlie figuratiue ? The distinction of a meere figure and not meere in speach , is nothing but a meere fiction , saith your Oracle , in his Relation , pag. 293. and pag. 294. how saith he , can the same speach be figuratiue & proper , that is proper & improper ? & a little after . what is this to proue that a speach which may not be properly taken , such is euerie figuratiue , may be properlie taken , and so figurata , and propria both ? And you , Master Waferer , to the same tune , pag. 17. Since a proper speach is when wordes are taken in their genuine sense , and a figuratiue when they are translated or taken from their genuine sense , to be taken in their natiue sense and not in there natiue sense ( besides that it is a meere fiction ) is a plaine contradiction . And pag. 36. That there can not be a proper and figuratiue sense both , in one and the same proposition I haue already proued . So you , & vitula tu dîgnus . Whence it followes , that the proposition which wee speak of . This is my body , is according to you , meerelie figuratiue . for figuratiue you say it is ; and , all figuratiue speaches are , you say , meerely figuratiue , the case then standing so , the thing that fawnes on your learned Mastership , may put forth the tonge , quantùm sitiat canis Apula , tantùm , to lick vp againe , this Doctor Smith would Father a false opinion vpon vs , that we hold there is in the wordes ( This is my b●die ) a meere figure , Whilst the standers by , take notice that you confesse with all , Fallitur , qui plus aliquid sibi per Sacramenta conferri puta● , quam quod verbo Dci obla tum vera fide percipiat . Caluin . 4 Instit. c. 14. §. 14 Nihil absurdius est quam Sacramenta ●fferri supra verbum , cuius appendices sunt & sigilla . Idem in Consensu de re Sacram. pag. 755. Vocatur panis sacrae Coenae , corpus Christi , non quia sit , sed quia testatur nobis vere dar● in●cibum . Idem in Matt. c. 3. Et in c. 19. Eucharistiam vocat frustulum panis . Similiter frustum , crustulum , placentam , & laganum , vocant Wittakerus , Beza , Petrus Martyr . the opinion which your oracle , and your self , maintaine , to be fal●● ; for for much is imported by those words , D.S. would impose a false opinion vpon vs , ( what opinion ? ) that we hold there is in the words a meere figur● . this opinion you say is false , and for to maintaine this false opinio you are come abroade a polemick in print ; Antycira● some will say , and vnhappilie enough , melior sorbere meracas .

In the other part of your wordes by me cited in this § . wherein you would seeme to put downe your owne tenet for which your Doctor disputed , you shew your self ignorant in the cause .

The controuersie , was not about the spirituall effectes , which do follow vpon the receauing of this blessed Sacrament , but about the thing receaued into the mouth ; Whether this thing were indeed our Sauiours bodie , according to the veritie and substance , as his wordes in proprietie of speech import , This ( in forme of bread ) is my bodie ? Whether in the holie Eucharist there be reallie our Sauiours bodie according to the veritie and substance ? The Catholik Church takes his words ( as being dogmaticall ) properlie , submitting her vnderstanding to the omnipotent veritie that spake them : and affirmeth what he , her God and Sauiour , did affirme . Master Featlie on the other side laboured to proue that the wordes were not to be construed and vnderstood properlie ; that the speach was meerelie figuratiue ; and that Christ is not there ( in the Eucharist ) according to the substance of his bodie , or shrowded vnder the accidents of bread . In which tenet , you Master Waferer , ioyne with him , telling vs , pag. 9. Wee ( these are your wordes ) denie such corporall presence of the body and blood , as if the thing signified and represented were according to the naturall substance thereof contained vnder the shapes of the outward signes . A figure ( you know ) was graunted ; the question was whether this figure had the veritie ( the bodie and blood of Christ ) in it ; or whether it were emptie of it . Whether that which the Apostles receaued into their mouthes , were a meere emptie figure of the bodie and blood of Christ ; or whether the thing within that Sacramentall signe or figure , were ( as our Sauiours wordes in their proprietie import ) his bodie and his blood . The Protestants that speak their minds plainelie , pretend no more then a meere figure .

Their words are set downe in the Collation ( whither S. E. directed you ; See the Conference of the Catholi●k and Protestant Doctrine , with the expresse word● of Scripture . extant in English . pag. 266. & seqq . ) where they , your Masters , and the best learned on your side , speake of the Eucharist , your owne , thus ; It is not the bodie of Christ , not his very bodie , not his bodie it self , not his true bodie , not his substantiall bodie : not flesh , not Christs true flesh ; but another thing , and much different from Christs flesh : not the thing it selfe of this mysterie , not our spirituall foode . It is nothing els but bread , nothing but common bread , nothing but a bare creature , nothing but a bare signe ▪ or figure , nothing but meere bread and wine . Only a signe , only a seale , only a token , only a testification , only a symbol , only a type of Christs bodie . It only hath the name of Christs bodie , it is only a simple ceremonie . It is so the bodie of Christ as the Paschal lambe was Christ , as the doue was the Holie Ghost , as the water of baptisme was the blood of Christ . It is the bodie of Christ only figuratiuelie , by resemblance and no otherwise . symbolicallie , metonymicallie , tropicallie , significantlie . no otherwise then a keie deliuered , is a house . the body It is present onlie by speculation , & meere imagination : as our bodies are now present in heauen . Christ is no more communicated there in the supper then in the Gospell : no more receaued in the Sacrament , then in the word ; nothing more giuen in the supper then at preaching ; no more offersd by the Sacrament then by the word , yea the Sacrament is inferiour to the word , and the memorie of Christ , bodie is more fullie refreshed by the word then by the Sacrament .

All this and more hath beene told you , out of the mouthes of your greatest Deuines and pillars of Protestancie . The words and places are cite● , in the Conference l. 1. c. 10. a. 1. Where there is a clowd of domesticall , Protestant , witnesses against your Oracle and you , whose very names would shadow this leafe of paper . Among them you shall find your Caluin , Beza , Peter Martyr , and Swinglius who learned it of a Spirit , the Deuil it was Luther saies ; with your English , Iuel , Perkins , Whittaker , Cartwright , &c. each , as learned , as your Featlie .

Hereunto you replye nothing : but insteed of a Replye haue calumniated my Lord , and contradicted your self withall , Saying , Doctor Smith would faine father a false opinion vpon vs , and goes away currant with it , that wee hold ( as he hath proued signatis tabulis , pag. 159. and your owne confession aboue cited may be added thereunto ) that there is in the wordes ( This is my bodie ) a meere figure .

But now forsooth , you most plainelie affirme ( they be the rest of your wordes ) that the Sacramentall elements are not meere emptie signes ( wil you strike your owne fellowes in your choller ? ) of the bodie and blood of Christ , but a true and liuelie figure of them . As if a picture can not be a true picture , and a liuelie picture , and yet a meere picture ; or a figure be a true figure , and a liuelie figure , and yet a meere figure .

The legall figures which were according to the Apostle but egena elementa , were meere figures , yet some of them as liuelie , yea more liuelie then your bread and wine . The blood of the Testament , and the Manna in the desert , did signifie our Sauiours flesh and blood in as perfect a manner , if you consider all the analogie to the full : and the Agnus Paschalis dicitur esse Christus eadem prorsus ratione qua panis ille dicitur esse corpus Christi pro nobis traditum . Beza ( your admired patterne of Christianitie , so you call him pag. 98. ) in . 1. Corin. 5. Pascall lambe eaten at supper was a more liuelie figure , flesh of flesh , blood of blood , killing of killing ; that lambe without spot , of our innocent Sauiour ; then bread and wyne there distributed , if they were meere elementes , with a reference to the thing represented , the Passion , which was then future respectiuelie to them both vizt ▪ to the legall , & to the Sacramentall , supper , wherefore , since you are forced by the authoritie of holie Scripture to graunt that the legall figure was ( not withstanding the the liuelines ) a meere figure , it remaines that an other signe or figure ; though liuelie , may be but a meere figure . The liuelines of a picture is to represent ad viuum to the life ; and , a picture , the picture of the King , may do so , though it be nothing els but a meere picture , which your owne fellowes acknowledg whilst they graunte , as before hath beene told you , that in the supper there is meere bread and wine , a signe and seale onlie , nothing els but bread and wyne , which tenet you likewise hold in your mind , as appeares in your whole pamphlet throughout : but it is in is self , so poore a thing , so short of precedent figures , (b) (b) Caluin cited aboue ; pag. 156. yet the same Caluin sai●h . cum signa hic in mundo sint , oculis cernantur ; palpentur manibut ; Christus quatenus homo est , non alibi quam in c●●lo quaerendus est Calu. in Confess . de re Sacram . art. 21. so vnworthie of the chiefest place amongst Sacraments in the new Testament , so contrarie to the proper sense of our Sauiours words , and so vncapable of those high encomium's which the Fathers giue , or attributes which they do predicat●on , the blessed Sacrament ; that , you are ashamed openlie to professe it : still iugling with vs , and in steed of answers which you pretend , giuing vs words , nothing els . as to the communicantes ( after faire promises of the bodie and blood of Christ present by (a) (a) Wafer . pag. 8● , Mor. p. 135. Gods omnipotence changing the exteriour elementes , and penetrating into our soules according to the substance of flesh and blood , ) you giue nothing but meere bread and wine .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith should haue proued that the same proposition may be true in a natiue , genu●ne , and proper sence , though the wordes be vsed in a peregrine , figuratiue , and impropre sence .

Censure .

It was ridiculous enough to challeng at buckler onlie , as he did who came into the feild to answer distinctions ; but to be an andabatarian in such a combat , not daring to open his eies to behold his enemies so blunt a weapon , is superlatiuelie absurde . His populus ridet .

The word questioned for improprietie , is corpus , in this proposition , hoc est corpus meum . This word corpus doth directlie signifie ( if we speake as the chiefest Science doth conceaue it , ) the (a) (a) Fit conuersio totius substantiae panis in substantiam corporis Christi , Conc. Trid. sess. 13. c. 4. Ex vt sacramenti quantitas dimensiua corporis Christi non est in hoc sacramento S. Tho. 3. p. q. 76 a. 4. proinde neque ea quae sequuntur quantitatem . Ex vt realis concomitantiae est in hoc sacramento tota quantitas dimensiua corporis Christi , & omnia accidentia eius . Ibidem . vide eundem , 1. p. q 76. a. 4· ad 1. substance or part of substance , which requires three dimensions , leingth , breadth , and thicknes , according to which notion it is , ( in the words of institution ) taken properlie ; and the proposition proper , by the possessiue meum , this word corpus bodie , was determined to a mans ; not whose soeuer ; but our Sauiours .

The same word Corpus , Bodie , both in the apprehension of the vulgar ( as you may learne by present experience when you please , ) and according to the Philosopher ( as heereafter shall appeare ) doth import withall , the naturall manner of being of such a substance ; which manner is , to be a thing extended according to the foresaid dimensions : and , a mans bodie , to be a thing figured and visible . which manner of being naturallie flowes out of that kind of substance , and vsuallie comes into the conceit with it . And in regard of this manner , the proposition is improper ; for such an extension , imported also commonlie by the word corpus , is not there . It is improper , I say , if you regard the manner of being , vsuallie imported also by the word corpus , bodie ; but , proper , if you regard the substance of the thing directlie signified by the same word . If you regard the substance of the thing directlie signified , the wordes are taken in their natiue , genuine , and proper sence , and the proposition is in that kind natiue , genuine , proper : If you regard the manner of being ( imported also vsuallie by the word , ) the attribut is not taken properlie , nor the proposition proper . Had you opened your eies to look vpon the distinction which you answer , Relation pag. 39. you might haue seene that in these wordes , ( This is my bodie ) there is a figure : not a meere or naked one , voide of truth and proprietie . because , although they signifie that the Eucharist is the bodie of Christ trulie , reallie and properlie according to the thing , yet , they doe not affirme it to be the bodie of Christ after such a corporall and naturall manner as other thinges are the thinges which they are sayed to be : but after a spirituall , inuisible , mysticall , sacramentall manner ; and such a one as doth figuratiuelie shew and represent the naturall manner of being of the same bodie in another place .

Now ; though for words to be taken in their natiue sence , and not to be taken in their natiue sence , as long as it is secundum idem , be contradiction ; yet , to be taken in their natiue sence according to the substance of the thing directlie signified , and not to be taken in their natiue sence according to the manner of being vsuallie imported also by them , is not secundum idem , nor any contradiction .

Apologist .

Good Master Doctor take notice , that since , a prop●r speache is when wordes are taken in their genuine sence ; and a figuratiue when they are translated or taken from their genuine sence , that to be taken in their natiue sence , and not in their natiue sense ( besides that it is a meere fiction ) is a plaine contradiction , because the sence would be natiue and not natiue .

Censure .

Against whom do you fight good Andabatarian ? who tould you that the speach was proper absolutè , simpliciter ; and figuratiue or improper absolutè simpliciter : that the wordes were taken in their natiue sence , and that they were not taken in their natiue sence ? that secundum idem , they were , and were not ? This is a fiction of your braine , a chimericall goblin that your ignorance hath made for your argument to fight against . Those against whom you pretend to deale , haue noe such thing ; they doe not saie the speach is proper absoluté , simpliciter ; and , that it is absolutè , simpliciter , figuratiue : they say onlie that , it is proper absolutè , simpliciter , and figuratiue or improper secundum quid . Which you will proue to be a contradiction , when you proue this to be so , Aethiops est niger , Aethiops est albus secundum dentes : and haue demonstrated ( against the logick rule ) that an argument holds well from secundum quid to simpliciter . Open your eies ( braue challenger ) and read in great letters what they defend , THE SPEACH IS ABSOLVTè TO BE SAID PROPER ; AND FIGVRATIVE ONLY SECVNDVM QVID .

By this time , hauing beene distempered with a giddines of vnderstanding , so that you could hardlie peceaue what you were to doe , you are reeld ouer the entrie , into the matter of the first argument ; where you beginne to shew your Diuinitie ; and will reade a lesson to my Lord and S. E. before you know what it is your self . My L. had said , figures , some , were not meere figures as were the legall ; but , had the veritie ioyned with them , of which kind he brought 3. the first an increated figure , the sonne of God , who is ( according to the Apostle ) the figure of his fathers substance 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and hath it also with him , yea and in him . heereunto M. Mirth as followeth .

Apologist .

I graunt since the Diuiné essence was incarnat , that the sonne is essentiallie the same with the Father , who though quoad ▪ hypostasim in respect of his filiation he be a distinct person from his father , yet quoad naturam according to his essence he is equallie sharer of the same godhead , and is not an other but the same God . But I pray Sirs take notice that these wordes are spoken of the Sonne as his Diuinitie manifested it self in his humanitie , so then as the Diuinitie of the sonne did manifest it self in his flesh , he had the image of his fathers person ingrauen in him ; so 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 signifies : tell me then is this image the same with the father whom it represents ? is God the sonne God the Father ? is the second person the first ? or is the Diuinitie of the sonne as manifested in his flesh the person of the Father ? if not then this instance proues not your distinction which manitaines a figure to haue a veritie ioyned with it .

Censure .

1. Tim. 1. Some ( the Apostle saies ) will needes be Doctors of the law though they neither vnderstand what they say , nor of what thing the speake , and among these Doctors ( M. Mirth ) you take a place ; violating , with a prophane temeritie , the sacred mysteries of Religion , and vndertak to teach diuinitie to graduates in Diuinitie , before you can speak sence in matter of Diuinitie . For which reason , this worthie specimen of your improficiencie therein ( which being the first in your book ( I haue transcribed , ) deserues not a relation , yet since you giue it for a lesson to better then my self ; and call for good attention with pray Sirs ( D. Smith . & E. S. ) take notice that — I will ouer it once againe , with as many pauses ( for the reuerence to such a Master ) as there be parts in it .

Waf. I grant since the Diuiné essence was incarnat that the sonne is essentiallie the same with the father .

The sonne , essentiallie the same with the father , ( how ? not absolutlie , but say you ) since the Diuine essence was incarnate . Before ( it seemes ) he was not 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , consubstantiall ; his generation was not eternall , or if it were , the essence which by this generation he receaued was not the same which God the Father hath , but another , for had he receaued the same , ( as the Scriptures teach , and the Catholik church beleeues , ) he had beene 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , consubstantiall , before the incarnation , which is more then your Mastership doth admit . A bad lesson that is ( Master Mirth ) which can-be learned without forgetting of the Creed .

Waf. Who though quoad hypostasim in respect of his fillation he be a distinct person from the father , yet quoad naturam according to his essence he is equallie sharer of the same God head , & is not an other but the same God .

Hetherto it hath beene beleued in the Church , that the sonne of God receaued by his eternall generation the Diuinitie , all ; the whole nature or essence , together with all the essentiall attributes . That there is in him 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , Coll. 2. ● all the fullnes of the Diuinitie . and our Sauiour himself to his father ; Ioan. omnia tua mea sunt , thy creatures are my creatures , thy perfections my perfections , thy substance my substance , and thou thy self art my , Father : but now the case is changed in M. Mirths lesson ; the Diuinitie is diuided betwixt the Father and the sonne , and each hath an equall portion of it . the sonne is a sharer in the Godhead , and equallie sharer with the Father . What part he leaues the Holie Ghost I doe not find , whether he , ( the Holie Ghost , ) hath an equall share with the Father and the sonne : or none at all , as not being incarnate ; for the Sonne got his share this Master thinks , since the Diuine essence ( in him ) was incarnate , since which time he is essenti●llie the same with the Father .

Waf. But I pray Sirs take notice that those words 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 are spoken of the Sonne as his Diuinitie manifested it self in his humanitie .

Why not rather ( if I may be so bold to speake to so great a Master ) of the Sonne as consubstantiall to the Father , as the Auncients haue vnderstood it ? especiallie , Ioan. 1. since it followes immediatlie , that He caries or sustaines all things 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 by the word of his power . this he doth not as man , but as God . and as God also , the world was made by him , Hebr● 1. as you find immediatlie before . and the like in S. Iohn , per ipsum facta sunt omnia , all things were made by him , who was in the beginning , before the Incarnation they were made by him , by the word which was in God , and was God , by this intellectuall , subsisting Word ( which doth expresly represent God the Father , and is his liuelie image , Imago Dei inuisibilis , and his eternall Sonne , the splendor of his glorie , 2. Cor. 4 Coloss 1 Hebr 1 Sap. 7. Basil . Hom 15 de fide Epiph. in Ancor . Amb●l 2 Exam Greg. Nyss ▪ li de diff. ess . & hyp . the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of his substance , the spotles glasse wherein he beholdes his owne glorious maiestie , Candor lucis aeternae , speculum sine macula Dei Maiestatis ; 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 & imago , totum in se monstrans pat●●m , the expresse image , shewing the father all within himself . by him , I say , by this Word mundus factus est , reuolutions of ages , the whole world , was made not by him as appearing in flesh , as man , no● but by him , as God .

Had you rather heare a Protestant speake then me ? His diuine nature hath no lesse then three to expresse it , sonne , brightnes , and character : and two to proue it , the making , and supporting all . Agreeablie to these three we beleeue of him , that he is consubstantiall as the sonne , coeternall as the brightnes , coequall as the character ; against the new heads of the old Hydrasprung vp againe in our daies . Andr . Serm. vpon this text . Hebr. 1. you proceede .

Waf. So then as the Diuinitie of the sonne did manifest it self in the flesh he had the image of his fathers person engrauen in him : so 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 signifies .

Be it that it signifies to engraue an image , this grauing is not proper ( neither the Diuine , not the humane nature , is carued or graued properlie ) but metaphoricall ; signifying the expressing of an Image . And what Christian Diuine doubts but that the sonne of God , being Verbum aeternae mentis , is , and from all eternitie , an expresse image of his Father ? & infinitelie more expresse , more liuelie , more cleare , then the nature , or soule , or vnderstanding , or arte , of man ; as shewing the whole Diuinitie within it , and comprehensiuelie representing God the Father . Will you denie this Master Mirth ? will you denie that the Sonne of God did still represent his Father , and that he is his eternal Image ? if you do , you blaspheme : and if your words , as they are by you intended in way of answer be wel considered , you do . But we must on to your Conclusion , which is

Waf. Tell me then , is this Image the same with the father whom it represents ? is God the sonne God the father ? is the second person the first ? or is the Diuinitie of the sonne as manifested in his flesh the person of the Father ?

Birckbeck Featlies companion , obiecteth that the signe and the thing signified cannot be the same in that verie respect and point wherein they are opposite . If he meanes by that his manner of speach in that verie respect and point , that the relations be distinct or not the same , there is no question of it : one relation is not the other ▪ If he meanes that the same thing in substance cannot ( in regard of diuers accidentall formes ) be denominated by them both , he begs , and cannot proue it . By his example in the Trinitie , the sonne is not the Father , it seemes he meanes the former Paternitie and filiation be opposite relations , which cannot one be affirmed vpon the other , either in abstracto , paternitas est filiatio● or in con●reto , pater est filius , yet the minister beleeues , I suppose , that both are in God ; where they be subsistent . And though the Father be not the sonne , yet the Father is with , and in the Sonne . this he beleeues too , and this is enough to iustifie the dist●nction which I am defending .

Those who call the Eucharist a signe , do saie also ●hat it is the bodie . Ex duabus rebus constat ( Eucharistia ) terrena & coelesti . the bodie , and the species But none euer said that , to be the bodie was to be the signe , or that it was the bodie and the signe secundum idem . And since it includes both within it's notion , it is easilie vnderstood how both secundum diuersa may be verified . That which is inuisiblie within , ( the bodie ) is signified , it hath the one relation : that which is without , exposed to our eies , ( the species , Sacramentum tantum , ) doth signifie , it hath the other relation attributed to it , these things be distinct , and the relations being opposite be in their kind distinct also .

Some too , say that it is the signe of our Sauiours bodie as visible in it self vpon the Crosse , because the species do represent that also , or bring it into the memorie of beleeuers , as hereafter you will heare when wee come to the place which is vrged out of Gratian. Heere in this place it is sufficient to note that it followes not , The Sacrament is by some called a signe or figure Ergo they did not beleeue the bodie is within it , within it I say , this doth not follow ▪ wherefore that part of the distinction wherein it was said , some figure may haue the veritie within it , may stand .

if not then this instance proues not your distinction , which maintaines a figure to haue a veritie ioyned with it .

Cens .

That the sonne is not the Father , or the second person the first , a child but seuen yeeres old , could tell ; and yet that instance of the eternall sonne being the figure of his fathers substance doth illustrate what was saide in the explication of the distinction ; namely , that a figure may haue the veritie ioyned with it ; God the Father being inseparablie with his sonne , whom the Apostle calls the figure of his substance : and in him too , if we beleeue the sonne himself , the Father is in me , and I in the Father , Ioh. 10. v. 38. and afterwards againe , twice , in one chapter ; giuing motiues also , to persuade men to beleeue it . And if the sonne hath the Fathers essence in him , how can the Father be separated from the Sonne ? can he leaue his essence , and be gonne ? Againe , as the Father hath immensitie , so also hath the Sonne ; how then can the Father be any where , and the Sonne not there also ; or the Sonne anie where without the Father with him ? He is verbum mentis , an intellectuall word ; and therefore immanent , abiding in the conceauer , and so present with him . Vnigenitus in sinu Patris . No violence can separate or diuorce them , hauing both , but one nature , one existence , and that , vncapable of diuision ; as being in it self a pure act .

It may be further added , that , were the words of the Apostle vnderstood of the sonne of God as man , and only so , my Lords instance would still be good , for God the Father is neuer separated from the Sonne ; wherfore God the Sonne being within that humanitie , God the Father was not absent . The fullnes of the Diuinitie did & doth inhab●te and dwell in him corporallie 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the Scripture saies ; and , Col. 2. 2 Cor. 2 Deus , erat in Christo , mundum reconcilians sibi . Do you not beleeue that the Father is in me ? Io. 10.

Now Sir ; to returne to the wordes againe ; if the place of S. Paul doth not make good what was told your Doctor , vzt , that some figure had the veritie ioyned with it ; it is , either because the sonne of God is no● 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the figure of his Fathers substance ; and this you will not say ; because S. Paul affirmes it : or , because that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of the Father is not with this 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 as in effect you doe saie , and therein denie the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 reuealed in Scripture ; which is a foule errour in Diuinitie . It is pittie that vnlearned men be permitted to vent in writing such stuffe , fit for nothing but to breede Apostasie , and vndoe the simple reader .

Nauim si poscat sibi perornatus arator Luciferi rudis , exclamét Melicerta perisse Frontem de rebus . If he who knowes no starrs , should come from plow , And in his start-ups moderate the sterne , The Sea-god might exclaime , shame 's no where now When dunces needs will do , before they learne . Apologist .

So then this similie makes nothing against vs , since it onlie illustrats such a figure as to which the thing signified is present .

Censure .

If it doth that , it doth all for which is was brought . But see your giddines ; you scarce haue breathed since you said ; this instance proues not your distinction which maintaines a figure to haue the veritie ioyned with it .

Apologist .

The king in triumph may be the same king which ouercame in the warre : but he in this solemnitie represents some past actions , and postures of his behauiour in the conquest ; not himself . that triumph is the figure of the kings victorie not his person .

Censure .

One instance was enough to make the distinction vnderstood ; and after much adoe , you haue , in fine , granted as much ; vzt , that the former instance doth illustrate such a figure as to which the thing figured is present : wherefore I neede not proceede vnto the second , wherein it was said that the King shewing in triumph how he did behaue himself in the warre , Rclat . pag 15. Waf pag. 24. is in this latter action a figure of himself as in the former . and the lesse neede there is , because instantlie you accord & saie T' is true . If it be true then it may stand , to shew that the substance of the thing signified or represented , may be in the signe or figure ; for the king in the warres and the king in the triumph is the same King , the same bodie , the same substance . Whether he be in this posture or in that ; whether he fight or floorish ; whether he be in this motion , or in that other ; he is one and the same man : the actions are distinct , but not the person . Moreouer , as the King triumphing is the signe , he figure , the thing representing , so is the King victorióus , & subduing his enemies , the thing signified , called to mind , represented . By the glorious shew at home , he would represent & bring to mind his Royall comportment abroad ; by this triumph , that warre . He would haue men call to mind that He was in that action , that there He shewed his valour , making it appeare how that His hand merited the scepter , and His head the crowne . And whilst you conceaue it otherwise , you come short of the nature of the shew . you take away the grace of the royall action represented , in taking out of it the kings Person , which is the life and lustre in it . you take , the soule out of the bodie , the diamond out of the ring , the sunne out of the daie . To say nothing of your subtilitie in conceauing ( by occasion of that representation or signe ) postures without members , wounds without bodies ; a battell fought & a victorie obtained without thinking on a man . If your braine be the theater of such spectakles , you must needs purge .

Nauiget —

Apologist .

His last similie ( or instance ) is the weakest . Bread , saith he , exposed in the shop is a figure of it self as to be sould . But ( by the Doctors leaue , ) bread as it is to be sould is not it self , Ergo it is not the figure of it self .

Censure .

Now you are in forme , and therefore your Aduersarie had need to looke about him , least with your Ergo , you draw the strings and shut him in the bagge . You are examining the last instance , Bread as exposed , is no●●or then bread as vendible . A stone , or the bakers Cat in that place , is no signe of it . wherein it was said that bread ( suppose a white loafe ) exposed in the bakers shop , is not onlie bread but a signe , and not onlie a signe but bread ; it is both It is a signe of vendible bread , and it self is the verie thing whereof it is a signe , as you may presentlie knowe , if you will but agree with the baker for it . You need not aske of him whether he will sell it or no ; he signified his mind to sell it by exposing it there . Wee doe not say that the vendibilitie is the signe of the vendibilitie , but that the same thing which is exposed , ( the loafe of bread ) is the subiect of both the denominations , for , it is the●e vendible , you graunt : and it stands there to signifie that bread ( euen that loafe if you like it ) is there vendible . And if the same substance may be in the signe , & the thing signified , wee looke no further into the similie : we do not contend that to signifie is to be signified ; that is not in our thoughts .

I would here haue left you in the bakers shoppe , but that you le●t ou● into the margine to see whether possiblie the manna , as in the Arck , could be a signe of it self , as in the desert . By that which hath beene saide about the two former instances it appeares that it might . The same substance is , according to seuerall reasons , Your coloure hath a reference to your bodie . your bodie hath a reference to your soule that is within it , why may not the Sacramentall species haue a reference to the bodie that is inuisiblie within it ? See the place of Gratian , Arg 4. or to the bodie visiblie on the Crosse ? Ibidem . where you confesse as much . See also Peter Martyr , suprà pag 55. capable of both denominations . I say seuerall ; because the reason founding the one denomination , is diuers from the reason founding the other . You looke perchance for a reall order or relation betwixt the signe and the thing signified ; but such an order is not necessarie : nor , in some cases , possible . The King ( you say ) by his triumph doth represent actions past : that relation cannot be reall , because those actions are past . yet , an understanding hath power to make them , or rather ( as I told you before ) to make the king in that action , stand before our apprehension obiectiuè : and so may compare , this to that ; or ( rather ) the King in th●s posture , to the king in that posture . And reflecting againe vppon this comparison , finds a reference . But these nicities which you call into the dispute , are troublesome to the Reader that neuer was in schooles The An est , he perceaues better then the quid ; let vs put that , the An est , in an example within his reach .

Your tailor hauing made you new cloathes , brings his bill , and bidds you cast it vp . NOW let it be supposed , that you haue onlie shillings in your pocket , and vse them as counters in casting vp this bill . It will happen that , as they , ( the shillings ) stand for pounds , and pence , so they may stand for shillings too . When all is done ; and all abated that may be ; be the summe rigorouslie due , fiue pound and three shillings , which three shillings you may let the tailour take , whilst you go into your closet to fetch the fiue pound : and to studie , whether those shillings were the signes of themselues . Vpon the table in the account , they were signes of shillings ; and when you first tooke them out of your pocket , they were shillings : if now , you will not haue the same to be the signe and the thing signified , you must giue other , to the taylor : and let those be hereafter bullion , for hauing once beene signes .

If this case had any difficultie , yet in ours there is none . Who cannot conceaue that the species of bread may be referd to a bodie , as a signe of it , if it be indeed inuisiblie within ? He is verie stupid that cannot vnderstand it . Well Sir , if you be resolued about your shillings , bring Tertullian out with you : for the next busines is about a place in him , Acceptum panem , Professus itaque se concupiscentia concupisse ed●re Pascha vt suum ( indignum enim vt quid alienum concupisceret Deus ) acceptum panem & distributum discipulis , corpus suum illum fecit , hoc est corpus meum dicendo , id est figura corporis mei , figura autem non fuisset , nisi veritatis esset corpus , caeterum vacu● res quod est phantasma ( vide quod infrà citatur ex li. 5. c. 20. ) figuram capere non posset ▪ aut si propterea panem corpus sibi finx●t quia corporis carebat veritate , ergo panem debuit tradere pro nobis . Faciebat ad v●nitatem Marcionis vt panis crucisigeretur . cur autem panem corpus suum appellat , & non magis peponem quem Marcion cordis loco habuit , non intelligens veterem fuisse istam figuram corporis Christi , dicentis , per Hioremiam , aduersus me cogitauerunt cogitatum , dicentes Venite conijciamus lignum in panem eius , scilicet crucem in corpus eius ? itaque illuminator antiquitatum quid tunc voluerit significasse panem , satis declaruit , corpus suum vocans panem . Sic & in cali●is mentione testamentum constituens , sanguine suo obsignatum , substantiam corporis confirmauit , nullius enim corporis sanguis potest esse , nisi carnis , nam & si qua corporis qualitas non carnea opponetur nobis , cerie sanguinem nisi carnea non habebit ita consistit probatio corporis de testimonio carnis , probatio carnis de testimonio sanguinis , vt autem & sanguinis veterem figuram recognoscas aderit Esaias , quis inquit , qui aduenit de Edom ? rubor vestimentorum eius ex Bosor &c. multo manifestius Genesis in benedictione Iudae , ex cuius tribu , carnis census Christi processurus , iam tunc Christum in Iuda deliniabat . ●auabit inquit , in vino stolam suam , & in sanguine vuae amictum suumistolam & amictum carnem demonstrans , & vinum sanguinem , ita & nunc sanguinem in vino consecrauit , quitunc vinum in sanguine figurauit , Tertull. adu . Marcion . lib. 4. c. 40. Vide Cyprian . lib. 2. Epist. 3. & distributum discipulis , corpus suum illum fecit , Hoc est corpus meum dicendo , id est , figura , corporis mei , and the rest , recited in the margent . Out of which wordes M. Featlie did argue for such a signe as had not the veritie ioyned with it .

Apologist .

It is most plaine that Tertullian ( in those wordes ) meanes to interprete himselfe against transubstantiation , for if he had held his bodie to be trulie and substantiallie in the bread , why would he haue added to these wordes , he made it his bodie , this interpretation , that is , the figure of his bodie ?

Censure .

The words figura corporis mei , are not an interpretation of corpus , in that speach corpus suum illum fecit , as you may easilie know not onlie by the Authors discourse , but also euen by the Syntaxis of the wordes . Panem fecit corpus suum , id est fecit figura corporis , is no congruitie in Latine . And againe , that mei , which followes , doth repugne to the construction which you make ; panem fecit corpus suum , id est , panem fecit figura corporis mei ,

Suum , id est , mei . this is so vntoward that you will neuer be able to perswade a man , Tertullian meant it should runne so . The words id est figura corporis mei , are an exposition of the subiect , hoc , as your Doctor was told in the Conference : and the Authors intention was to say , that our Sauiour by the wordes of consecration hoc est corpus meum , turned an old figure , bread , into his bodie . Acceptum panem , corpus suum illum fecit . Wherein he is so so farre from interpreting himself against transubstantiation , that he doth auouch and teach it .

Apologist :

T' is meere Sophistrie to attribute those wordes ( that is a figure of my bodie ) to the subiect , ( this . )

Censure .

This is all which is returned in answer to four seuerall reasons , demonstrating , and out of this Authors owne wordes , that his meaning was , by these words id est figura corporis mei , to interpret and declare what before , that thing was , which our Sauiour now , by Consecration turned , into his bodie . Some thing , he saith , our Sauiour made ; fecit ; and by speaking these wordes , Hoc est corpus meum . Fecit , hoc est corpus meum dicendo . the thing he made it of , was bread , Acceptum panem , &c. The Question is , Whether concerning this bread Tertullian would say , that of no figure he made it a figure ; or , Whether he would saie , that being before a figure of his bodie , he now turned it into the same bodie . the wordes are Acceptum panem corpus suum illum fecit , dicendo , hoc est corpus meum . the interpretation is , id est figura corporis mei . Which interpretation , if you ioyne to the subiect hoc , it makes the later of the two senses : if you ioyne it to corpus , the predicate , it may be drawne to the former placing it thus , hoc est figura corporis mei , this is my bodies figure , putting insteed of corpus , figura &c. Which your owne men , Chamier , Hooker , and others will not endure ; ( and with reason , for the word which is the predicate , corpus , signifies the thing crucified , as appeares by saint Paul This is my ( ) which is broken for you . you cannot put figure there , insteed of bodie ; & say , this is my figure which is broken , for you . ) whereupon they take corpus properlie 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . And allthough our tenet would suffer no preiudice by admitting that the Eucharist is a figure , and consequentlie by saying that our Sauiour by consecration made it so , for you were told there is a figure though not an emptie figure , and in the Conference my Lord told your Doctor that of curtesie he would admit the word figura , pag. 22. figure , to be referd to the word corpus , bodie , that his argument might runne on ; yet certain it is that Tertullian doth intend the later sence , and not the former . For , the figure which he speakes of was before ; and our Sauiour did not , you you confesse , make by consecration , that which was before . Figura autem non fuisset . Non intelligens veterem istam fuisse figuram . quid tunc voluerit significasse panem . Birkbeck pag. 61. doth make a Syllogisme , whereof if you chang the minor puttng this , But bread was an old figure of Christs bodie , His Argument is answered . He translates there also , figura , non fuisset , a figure it could not be , to make it serue i● turne . Vt autem & sanguinis veterem figuram in vino . and the rest , which you find in the Relation .

Apologist .

In other places he makes bread the subiect in this proposition , as in these panem quo ipsum corpus representat , bread by which he representes his verie bodie , Againe panem corpus suum appellans , calling bread his bodie , and presentlie after corporis sui figuram pani dedisse , he gaue to bread to be the figure of his bodie ; in which places he is easelie vnderstood to meane that bread represents Christs bodie as a figure , not to be sustantiallie the same .

Censure .

It doth not follow out of the affirmation of a figure that the substance of the bodie is not heere : Plane de substantia Christi putant & hic Marcionitae suffragari Apostolum sibi , quod phantasma carnis fuerit in Christo cum dicit quod in effigie constitutus non rapinam existimauit paria●i Deo , sed exhausit semetipsum accepta effigie serui , non veritate . & in similitudine hominis , non in homine ; & figura inuentus homo , non substantia , id est non carne : quasi non & figura , & similitudo , est effigies substantiae quoque accedant . Benè autem quod & alibi Christum imaginem Dei inuisibilis appellat . Numquid ergo & hic qua in effigie eum Dei collocat ? aeque non erit Deus Christus vere , si nec homo vere fuit in effigie hominis constitutus . Vtrobique enim veritas necesse habebit excludi , si effigies , & similitudo , & figura , phantasmati vindicabitur . Quod si in effigie & in imagine , qua filius patris , vere Dei praedicatus est ; etiam in effigie & imagine hominis , qua filius hominis , vere hominem inuentum . nam & inuentum , ratione posuit , id est , certissime hominem : quod enim inuenitur , constat esse . Tertull. li. 5. aduo r. Marc. c. 20. Faciliùs intelliges quod in hac sententia obscurum est , si legas hoc modo . numquid ergo & hic quia in effigie eum Dei collocat , aeque non erit Deus Christus ? vere ; si nec &c. & postea . vere Deus predicatus . this being not a meere emptie signe or figure , but such a one as hath in it the substance of the thing signified and represented , as your Doctor was told in the beginning . And according to this Author , our Sauiour turning the substance of bread into his bodie , did by this meanes put the veritie within the figure ; and so left it such a figure as we speake of ; not emptie ( as before in Ieremies tyme ) but full . The very same is imported by the the wordes which you cite in the first place . representare , is , rem aliquam praesentem sistere , to exhibite a thing present . And our Sauiour by turning the substance of bread into his bodie , doth thereby , exhibite his bodie present ; vnder the figure of bread : and so properlie doth represent it . In this signification Orators , Lawiers , and Deuines , vse the word . and Tertullian himself , very frequentlie , as , where he saith that our Sauiour a. a. Tertull . de Resurr . car . represented the thinges foretold by the Prophets ; that the b. b. Ibid. generall Iudgment shall consist of a representation of all mankind ; that God (c) (c) li. 4 con . Marcion . See store of testimonies of this kind in Card. Peron . pag. 211. 212. representing Christ , said This is my sonne &c. itaque iam representans eum . And this is the natiue and proper signification of the word . To exhibite a thing present in a signe or figure , is not so properlie rem sistere praesentem , as is the other exhibition of the thing in it self ; wherefore that signification is lesse proper . yet in this sence also , the word is heere verified ; for , the Sacrament is a signe or figure of the bodie ; and it hath also the bodie in it . Our Sauiour himself who did institute it , was the figure of his Fathers substance , and had his Father in him . suprà pag. 178.

The second place you bring is this , panem corpus suum appellans . where you suppose the word panem to be the subiect , and to be taken properlie , Subiection est in Grammaticae prior nominatinus , de quo aliquid dicitur : Grammatici vocant suppositum . vocatura nonnullis antecedens , quia in ipso sensu debet semper antecedere , etsi in oratione interdum sequatur . Deus erat verbum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . nobilitas sola est atque vnica virtus , Keker . ex Melancth . which ( if it could be proued ) would not yet serue your turne : for we could easilie expound the wordes , by others of the same Author before cited : panem corpus suum fecit dicendo hoc &c. The calling , would I then say , was practicall ; such as turned the bread into his bodie : dicendo hoc est &c. corpus suum illum fecit . Dixit & factum est . he made it to be so , and he made it dicendo . Call to minde the Speaker , and you will not think the thinge to him hard or difficult . It is he , per quem omnia facta sunt . He that sendeth forth light , Baruc. 3. and it goeth , calleth it againe , and it obeieth with trembling . The starres haue giuen light in their watches and reioyced , they were called and they sayd we are heere , and they haue shined to him with cheerfullnes that made them .

Benedict●one etiam natura ipsa mutatur . S. Ambr. de myst . init . c. 9. Ante verba Christi Calix est viui & aequae plenus : vbi verba Christi operata fuerint , ibi sanguis efficitur qui plebem redemit . Idem Sacram. l 4. cap. 5. Inuenimus Calicem mixtum fuisse quem Dominus obtulit ; & vinum fuisse quod sanguinem ( practice ) dixit . S. Cypr. li. 2. Ep. 3. Sacrificium verum & plenum tunc offert ( Sacerdos ) in Ecclesia Deo Patri , si sic incipiat offerre secundum quod ipsum Christum videat obtulisse . Ibidem . And had there beene in this Father any obscure speaches touching this matter , the diuine Prouidence hath not left vs without meanes to learne his minde : for together with his booke there is come into our hands from Antiquitie , such a comment , ( Sermo de Coena ) that wee neede not studie long to finde it out , Panis non effigie . &c. Did the word panem stand for Bakers bread , I would say , that this bread was by the wordes of consecration , changed , panem corpus suum fecit dicendo hoc est &c. and so no more bakers bread after consecration , though before it were , it is afterwards , the bodie of Christ , supernaturall , heauenlie bread ; the bread of life . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . it seemes bread it is in the shape of bread ; but in substance it not bread . Cyrill . Qui est à terra panis 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 percipiens vocationem Dei , iam non communis panis est , sed Eucharistia , ex duabus rebus constans , terrena &c Caelesti . the bread which hath being from the earth , receauing the call or inuocation of God , is now , not common bread , but Eucharist consisting of two things , the earthlie , and the heauenlie . Iren. lib. 4. c. 34.

This answer you see is readie , if that supposition of yours could be made good . But your obiection is not so farre aduanced as to require an answer : and you are engaged in a further busines : being to proue , that when the consecration is donne , the bakers bread remaines according to this Author , which is contrarie to his words before alleadged , corpus suum illum ( panem ) fecit . the bodie of Christ is not ( you know ) bakers bread . and by consecration our Sauiour did this , Hoc est corpus meum dicendo .

By the order of the wordes you cannot get aduantage as before I did insinuate , & now confirme it by this , that indifferentlie he puts either first : lib. 3. contra Mar. c. 19. Panem corpus suum appellans . and lib. 4. cap. 40. corpus suum vocans panem . See the margent aboue pag. 191. Wherefore omitting that dispute , which is not heere materiall , let vs inquire what the word panem ( be it the subiect or the predicate ) doth signifie in that proposition , Whereunto it is easelie answered out of the same Author , that it signifies , not proper , but mysticall , not earthlie , but Heauenlie bread . The veritie of which answer appeares by the scope of his discourse . He is expounding an obscure place of antiquitie , found in Ieremie the Prophet , Mittamus lignum in panem eius : which wordes are vttered in the person of the Iewes . By lignum he meanes the Crosse . that eius is referd to our Sauiour of whom the Iewes spake , mittamus lignum , let vs cast wood vpon , let vs crucifie panem eius . the word panem ( and that word onlie ) is obscure . If it be taken for earthlie , bakers bread : the sense would be , let vs crucifie bakers bread . which could not be the sence . What bread ; then , is this which they threaten to crucifie ? it is Heauenlie , mysticall , bread ; not bread in substance , but the bodie of Iesus Christ . Against this bread , they did afterwardes conspire , they did crucifie , this bread . Itaque ill . &c. pag. 192.

And that indeed this mysterie was couched vnder those words in the Prophet mittamus lignum &c. our Sauiour himself , best able to tell the meaning of Antiquitie , declared , in calling his owne bodie bread , Ioh. 6. and afterwardes exhibiting it ( the very same that was crucified , ) in the forme of bread by turning bread into it , and so giuing it , Matt. 26. Lue. 22.

On the other side , if we make of the words that construction which you would haue , you I say , who contend that in the proposition before alleadged , panis stands for earthlie bread , figuratiuelie representing the bodie ; the sence would be , that the crosse was cast vpon that earthlie bread ; that bakers bread was crucified . which is false , and ridiculous . Si panem eo sensu corpus suum Dominus appellauit , faciebat ad vanitatem Caluini , vt panis crucifigeretur : Why ? because the crosse was to be laide vpon that bread whereof our Sauiour did interprete the speach or words of Ieremie , mittamus lignum in panem .

You had from me in the former place ( obiected ) one reason why Tertullian did not vnderstand improperlie the predicate corpus in our Sauiours words , hoc est corpus meum . Heere now you haue an other out of this second place , which declares that he vnderstood it to be so farre from a meere figure , or bread-a-figure , that it is ( he beleeued ) the thing it self which was crucified , which agreeth well to the determination that our blessed Sauiour himself doth adde by way of difference to distinguish it from corporall bread-a-figure . He doth not ( as you would haue Tertullian against his owne discourse expound him ) meane to say , this is a figure , or , vnderstand by the predicate or word corpus , the figure of a bodie , the whole sence then had beene this , This ●s a figure which is crucified for you : but he saith , this is 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 my verie bodie , which is giuen for you . And so much you Chamier doth acknowedge against Featlie . Quaeritur quid sit corpus meum , sanguis meus . Nos candi●e & liberè ac libenter respondemus 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 interpretandum , cum He●ychio in Leuit 22. Sancta Sanctorum sunt propriè Christi mysteria , quia ipsius est corpus de quo Gabriel ad Virginem dicebat , Spiritus Sanctus superuenier &c. — Est igitur corpus illud , id est solida substantia humanae naturae , quam assumptam in vtero Virginis circumtulit in Hypostasi sua verbum — Etenim omnino Christi corpus , non nisi dupliciter nominatum est , vel proprium illud a nobis designatum , vel mysticum quod est Ecclesia , the Question is , what is Corpus meum my bodie , sanguis meus my blood . whereunto wee answer ingenuouslie , openlie , and willinglie with Hesichius that it is litterallie to be interpreted . The mysteries of Christ are properlie the holie things of holies , for it is his bodie of whom Gabriel said to the Virgin , the Holie Ghost shall come from aboue &c. It is therefore that very bodie , that is to say , the solid substance of humane nature , which being assumed in the Virgins woombe the word caried about in his Person . For Corpus Christi signifies but two things in all ; the proper bodie which wee haue now specified ; and the mysticall , which is the Church . so he : a protestant , and he instar omnium ; you know the man that said so , and if it be so , then a greater scholler then he that said so , your Master Featlie .

The third place , corporis sui figuram pani dedisse , will neither yeeld solid proofe for you ; nor vs ; because ( omitting the cause of doubting whether they be Tertullians words or no , which is insinuated , together with the reason , by Pamelius out of whom you reade pani ) the lection ( and it seemes by some defect in a copie out of which other later were transcribed ) is doubtfull : whether it should be pane , as Latinius thinks ; or panis as most do reade with Beatus Rhenanus ; or pani , as Pamelius found in one of the three Vatican copies which he had , and where the ground shakes , none but W — build on it . Moreouer none of those lections do fauour you , and were it pani , the sence would be that he gaue to celestiall bread ( his bodie ) the figure which was before , by turning the substance of it into the substance of his bodie , and with the exteriour shape which was left couering the same : so ioyning figure and veritie together , and by the one confirming to vs the other . leauing the Church withall , a Sacrament , consisting of them both : not the bodie onlie ; that were not a Sacrement ; and the communicant would haue horrour to receaue naked flesh : nor the figure onlie , that would haue beene elementum egenum , futurorum vmbra , a signe and nothing but a signe : but figure , and bodie to ; and so , that ( the tyme of meere figures exspiring , ) the former substance of the figure , Vt ergo in Genesi per Melchisedeth Sacerdotem benedictio circa Abraham possit rite celebrari , praecedit ante imago Sacrificij in pane & vino scilicet constituta . Quam rem perficiens & adimplens Dominus , panem & calicem mixtum vino obtulit . Et qui est plenitudo , veritatem praefiguratae imaginis adimpleuit . S. Cypr. l 2. Ep. 3. bread , by conuersion passeth into the veritie , the bodie . thus , ( were it pani ) the place would make for vs ; and imply a transubstantiation as I haue declared . neither would the words admitte any other so genuine a sence , as his . for , if you take pani for bakers bread , the construction ( supposing which is a thing manifest and aboue demonstrated that the figure he speakes of was an old figure ) would be , corporis sui figuram pani dedit , he gaue to ( bakers ) bread the ( old ) figure of his bodie , ( which figure also was bakers bread ) which is as much as if he had said , he gaue bread to bread , old to new ; iumbling belike both together to make one loafe of two , as some doe mingle beere , old and new together , when the one is newlie made , and the other growing soure . Pane , and panis , were further from your purpose , as I could easilie shew if any should pretend it ; the fittest ( if you could find it in any copie ) were panem ; but hitherto no such appeares ; and if it should in time , we should not be to seeke a solution , hauing allreadie said that the sacrament , called also by the name of bread ( for diuers reasons els-where specified ) is a figure of the bodie , but not a meere and emptie figure .

I had allmost forgot to take notice of your translation of the wordes , corporis sui figuram pani dedisse , he gaue to bread to be the figure of his bodie . If he had donne so , either at the supper by making of it the blesed Sacrament , which is a figure ( though not emptie ) of his bodie : or in Ieremies time ( as he was God , Tertullians word being Deus : sic enim Deus in Euangelio &c. vt hinc iam eum ( id est , Deum ) intelligas corporis sui figuram pani dedisse : mark also the preterit : ) if , I say , he , as God , be said in Ieremies time , to haue giuen to bread to be the figure of his bodie : yet should you not haue translated the wordes so as you do . I do not speake of translating dedisse he gaue ; I suppose you meant dedit : but , of translating the word , suppose dedit , he gaue to be . Which translation in other matter your self would not endure . Sempronius Lepido dedit asinum . were this Lepidus a frinde of yours , you would not turne dedit , he aue to be .

In the margine pag. 23. S. E. had cited other words of Tertullian for a further exposition of his meaning ; Caro corpore vescitur ; and these next you glosse .

Apologist .

the meaning of Tertullian in those wordes , caro corpore & sanguine Christi vescitur , vt & anima de Deo saginetur ; is , that the bodie receauing in the outward element ( which otherwhere he cals the figure of his bodie ) the soule presentlie apprehends the thing signified , vzt , the bodie of Christ .

Censure .

See Masters ! a golden exposition ; cleere , natiue , proper , subtile , accurate . The bodie eates the flesh , that is , the soule doth apprehend it . O monstrous wit , able to make quidlibet ex quolibet ▪ I can not sufficientlie admire , I am astonished when I consider thy streingth and perspicacitie . Before , I knew thou couldst make contradictions : ( which omnipotencie it self cannot ; ) and now I see thou canst : finde senses , where they be not . But , Pluribus intentus minor est ad singula sensus . Whilst you were looking beyond the obiect of Gods power , to tell vs what he cannot do , you did not consider that Tertullian being in that book whence the wordes are cited , to defend the Resurrection of bodies , which Hereticks did impugne , chieflie out of the basenes of flesh ; and it 's origen at first , & corruption at last ; as appeares by the fourth ch●pter of that booke : he , on the contrarie , speakes much in commendation of it . Vituperationem laudatione dep●llas . ita nos rhetoricari quoque prouocant haeretici , &c. you may refute and repell the dispraise of a thing by the praise and commendation of it , and Hereticks prouoake vs to plaie the Rhethoricians in this kind . so he , ca. 5. where he beginns to praise it , continuing to the tenth chapter . in the middest of of which discourse , hauing spoken in the praise of humane flesh in common , he betakes himself to speake of the dignitie of the flesh of Christians , particularly . So much quoth he , be said out of the publik forme as it were of humane condition in the behalf of flesh : let vs consider now , how great a prerogatiue this friuolous ( as Hereticks in contempt , stile it , ) and base substance hath from God in as much as it is the forme of Christian men , Porro si vniuersa per carnem subiacent anima , carni quoque subiacent , &c. Et hac quidem velut de publica forma humanae conditionis in suffraguim carni procurauerim : videamus nunc de propria etiam Christiani nominis forma quanta huic subtantia ( heretici . ) friuolae ac sordidae apud Deum praerogatiua sit , & si sufficeret illi quod nulla ommino anima salutem possit adipisci , nisi dum est in carne , crediderit ; adeo caro salutis est cardo , de qua cum anima Deo allegitur , ipsa est quae efficit vt anima allegi possit . Sed & caro abluitur , vt anima emaculetur . Caro vaguitur , vt anima consecretur . Caro signatur , vt & anima muniatur . Caro manus impositione adumbratur , vt & anima spiritu alluminetur . Caro corpore & sanguine Christi vescitur , vt & anima de Deo saginetur . non possunt ergo separari in mercede , quas opera coniungit . Tertullian . de Resurrect . carnis . cap. 7. & 8. Obiter aduertet Lector quot in hac vna sententia Tertullianus indicat sacramenta . and there come in the wordes aboue cited ; wherein , ( as appeares both by the wordes them selues and also by the scope of his discourse ) it is euident that he meanes to say , the flesh euen that which Hereticks vilified , doth receaue into it self by the mouth the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ , to the end the soule by the worthie receauing of it , be diuinelie fatned : the flesh , saies he , caro , vescitur . and what doth it eate ? a meere signe or figure , bakers bread ? is this the greate prerogatiue ? no , vescitur corpore , the bodie it self : that his sacred and diuine bodie , his creature man , by his bodilie mouth , the flesh , doth eate : and thereby the whole hath benefite ; the soule grace ; ( so he receaue woorthelie , ) & in time glorie : and the bodie , ( as other auncients haue more clearlie expressed themselues ) immortalitie . He that eateth this bread shall liue for euer . In another place he saith the hands also touch it : wherein he doth agree with S. Augustine , De Idol . n. 31. & 34. out of whom the next argument was taken , who saith , our Sauiour had his owne bodie ( euen that which was crucified ) in his owne hands , and that we receaue it with our mouth . Citat . inserius .

Apologist .

He ( D. Smith , or S. E ) saith he hath good reason to referre that which followes the propostion ( this is my bodie ) vzt the figure of my bodie , to the subiect ( his , ) and not to the predicate bodie , because it may be shewed otherwhere in him , that what followes the proposition in that manner must be referred to the subiiect and not the predicate .

Censure .

This is willfullie to mystake and misreport . when D. Featlie in the conference had said , it did not follow that Tertullian in the place obiected had disordered his words because he had done the like elswhere , pag. 17. my Lord answered ( as you find in the Relation ) that he did not inferre that Tertullian did heere speake so , because he had donne the like in other places , but because he doth affoorde in this verie place ( cited ) four seuerall reasons why he must be soe vnderstood . which thing was inculcated againe by S. E. so that you doe manifestlie impose , against your owne knowledge , when you tell vs the authour saies he hath good reason to referre &c. because it may be shewed other where in him that what followes &c.

In the end of this your first section , you bring a place out of the Sermon de vnctione , which makes against your self , and for vs ; as will appeare to him that reades it : Dedit itaque D.N. in mensa in qua vltimum cum Apostolis participauit conuiuium , propriis manibus panem & vinum , in cruce verò manibus militum corpus tradidit vulnerandum , vt in Apostolis secretius impressa syncera veritas & vera synceritas exponeret gentibus quomodo vinum & panis caro esset & sanguis ; & quibus rationibus causae effectibus conuenitent , & diuersa nomina vel species ad vnam reducerentur essentiam ; & significantia & significata eisdem vocabulis censerentur . His gratiae supernae priuilegiis , esu sanctificati panis refecti , &c. to which purpose I haue cited the wordes at leingth in the margine . He speakes of consecrated bread , esu sanctificati panis refecti , and saith the bread is flesh , and the wine blood , ( vt exponeret gentibus quomodo vinum & panis , caro esset & sanguis . ) and that diuers species are reduced to one essence , which is donne by turning the bread into the bodie . whence it comes that this thing hath both names ; it is called bread , as being made of bread : and being in the exteriour forme of bread . and it is also the bodie it self , which bodie is the thing signified by the sacrament , and is reallie ( according to the substance , in it . This change of the signe into the thing signified , and the being of the same thing ( that which was signified ) now vnder the forme of bread , is more cleerelie deliuered by the same Author in a former sermon de Coena , Panis iste quem Dominus Discipulis porrigebat , non effigie sed natura mutatus , omnipotentia Verbi factus est caro : & sicut in persona Christi humanitas videbatur & latebat diuinitas , ita sacramento visibili ineffabiliter diuina se infundit essentia . that bread which our Lord gaue the Disciples , being changed not in shape but in nature , is by the omnipotencie of the Word made flesh : and as in the person of Christ the humanitie did appeare and the diuinitie lie hid , so ( heere ) a Diuine essence doth vnspeakablie powre it self into a visible sacrament .

Some graue Deuines think this Author to be saint Cyprian that glorious martyr and prelate of the Church Primitiue , other writers , amongst whom is Erasmus , esteeme him at least a very learned man of that Age , and so much appeares by the work it self , Ad D. Cornelium Papam &c. titulus . Ego quidem nec a meipso neque ab alio quaero nomen , neque enim aliquid me existimo esse cum nihil sim , qui hoc a vobis maxima supplicatione quaesiui , vt non essem quod sum , &c. in Praefat. operis . dedicated to Cornelius then Pope . He was a Catholike Father as all know , saies your patron , Morton pag. 125. yet you , but an infant at the time of this Conference , pag. 2. ( hauing not what to answer to the forsaid words wherein he hath expressed himself so plainely against your Heresie as nothing can be imagined more plaine and opposite , ) call him before you in the peremptorie termes of a Pedant ; and vouchsafing his work no better words then bastard , and surreptitious brat , will needs giue him the ferula , because he did not compound his Orations by your Thomasius Dictionarie : or call vpon you to teach him what words were then in vse , in honore vocabula ; what out of date , verborum vetus interit aetas ; what had not obtained the Grammarians leaue to passe , being as yet strang and new , cinctutis non exaudita Cethegis . The best is , and it is well for him , that he is so far of , your Master-ship cannot reach him : ferulae manum subduxit .

Being now come to the end of this argument which you would haue grounded in Tertullian , I cannot omit to tell you that your owne great Euangelist Martin Luther , examining the same words in his book entituled Defensio 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 verborum coenae , accipite , comedite , hoc est corpus meum , contra phanaticos Sacramentariorum spiritus ; concludes that in them Tertullian doth auouch the presence of the bodie it self , Debent demonstrare quod dictum Tertulliani non tantum possit sed omnino necesse sit in eam sententiam quam ipsi ( Sacramentarii ) habent , accipi . Quod si non faciunt , iure eos mendaces & falsarios accusamus cum glorientur se suae causae certissimos esse & manifestissimam veritatem habere . Luth. Def. verb caenae , pag. 406. Tertullian is affirmat Christum in caena panem corpus suum fecisse , secundum verba sua Hoc est corpus meum . Hic nullum verbum ambiguum aut amphibolou audias . nam panem facere corpus suum expresse , clare , & signate dicitur . Ibidem . Vocabulum figura , obscurum & ambiguum est . Ibidem . Quod si Oecolampalius demonstrare non potest figuram hic imaginem significare , manifeste deprehenditur deprauator Tertulliani & falsarius , & cum suo corporis signo occumbit . Quando autem demonstrauerit ? ad calendas Graecas , cum cuculus in Lusciniam mutatus fuerit . Ibidem . in the sacrament . satis aperté videmus Tertulliani sententiam esse quod verum & naturale Christi corpus sit in pane coenae , pag. 407. and that the sence which Oecolampadius then ( and Featlie now ) would put vpon the words , is forced and violent ; Tertulliani dictum violenter in suam opinionem trahit , vt figura hic coactè sonet signum , contra suam naturam ; cùm tamen nec possit nec id Tertullianus admittat . pag. 406. He is large and spends diuers pages in examining Tertullians mind ; and was your Masters Master , the great light and Euangelist , and Reformer , top-full of the Spirit Protestant . Refute him first . If you , slight him , primarium Euangelij propugnatorem , ( Swinglius Sacramentariorum post Diabolum Princeps ,

Cum autem panis sit figura corporis Christi , plane necessarium est vt verum Christi corpus vere ibi adsit vbi figura eius est , quae ex pane per verbum figura eius facta est . ( Est haec alia verborum interpretario , qua contendit esse figuram corporis praesentis ) Hanc esse Tertulliani sententiam mihi exploratissimum est ; nec verba eius quicquam obscuritatis & perplexitatis habent . pag. 407. Ex his liquido constat Tertullianum omnino velle vt in pane sit corpus quod pro nobis datum est , ne oporteat asseuerari merum panem pro nobis esse datum . Ibidem .

Ex his omnibus luce meridiana clarius est , vt mea fert opinio , quod Tertullianus figuram hic non eo sensu vsurpet quo Oerolampadius , pro simulachro aut signo , sed pro re visibili , quam eo nominat figuram corporis Christi , quod ei corpus Christi insit aut subsit . Ididem .

M. D. Smith told M. Featlie that of curtesie he would admit the word figura to be referd to corpus that his argument might runne on , and he make the best he could of it . In the relation ; supra , pag. 22.

in Exegesi fol , 335. ) take it not in ill part if others heereafter forbeare to look more vpon your scriblings , allreadie confuted and condemned by the Leader of your Sect.

The second Argument was of Saint Augustines words of eating the flesh of the sonne of man , Figura est &c. lib. 3. de doct. Christiana . And it was answered that this eating is figuratiue according to the manner , for this flesh is not diuided ( in the eating ) in it self ; as other flesh : but not figuratiue according to the thing , the flesh .

In the margine of the relation , S. E. put these words , which Waferer ( though he dispute oft against marginall notes , In relat . supra pag. 35. ) takes no notice of ; Were it denied that Saint Augustine speakes there ( li. 3. de Doct. Christia . c. 16. ) of Sacramentall eating , the Minister could not proue it . recondendum in memoria &c. This is another solution of this second Argument ; for the same may be answered diuers waies , as the former also might . But , to insist vpon that which was giuen : what hath Waferer brought against it ?

Apologist .

I will maintane that the verie bodie of Christ is not corporallie present vnder the shapes of bread and wine . And first I may deale with Doctor Smith , as &c.

Censure .

Hauing donne with the first argument , you come now to the place of the second , where forgetting that you came into the field as a second onlie , to make good your Doctors obiections , nothing els ; you beginne others : and will fight against some bodie , ( if any bodie please to loose time and fight with you ) with argumentes out of your owne learned head , and maintaine that the bodie of Christ is not corporallie present vnder the shape of bread and wine . Where , by the word corporallie , if you meane the naturall manner of being which bodies commonlie haue , consisting in the extraposition of partes in order to place ; all being not in the same part of the place , but one part of the bodie in one part of the place , and an other part of the bodie in another part of the place ; as your partes are ; your eies , your nose , your eares , your handes , your leggs , your feete : if you take the word corporallie , to signifie this manner of being , I know not who doth hold or auouch it in the Sacrament . Catholikes doe not . If by corporallie , you meane substantiallie , or , according to the substance of the bodie ; and in this sence vnderstand 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , you do vndertake more then all your masters can proue . And you ouermach your self in singling out a Doctor ; some Logician , that knowes his Catechisme , and hath heard that the Eucharist is such a signe or image as hath in it the bodie and bloud , according to a supernaturall , spirituall manner ; and that the Fathers do speake sometimes of sacramentall , sometimes of spirituall receauing onlie : might serue to combat with you , if perchance he did not esteeme it vnworthie of him to meete one who comes tilting at him with a — .

You are prouided no doubt , of a goodlie sheffe of speares ; had euerie one of them beene headed with an Ergo , they would haue penetrated a braine that had beene armed double-coxcomb . And had you thought on it , you might haue added in your dedicatorie to the great (a) (a) Challenge . Challenge Challenger , your Father in God Et nos tela , Pater , ferrumque haud debilé dextra Spargimus , & nostro sequitur de vulnere sanguis .

Or vinum , wine ; that rather : for if your launces wound , there is no blood : if they pierce , there is no bodie : but suddainly insteed of a mans bodie , bakers bread ; and wine , insteed of blood . Pectora percussit , pectus quoque — You looke perchance that some bodie meete you , in this new field of your owne pitching , that with your fearfull engines you may do , what Featlie could not with his argumentes . alas ! poore , man ! faine he would , and can not find an aduersarie to proue himself vpon .

How ? The Church ? o no. that is to great a task for you . It hath beene to hard for whole Legions of furious Heretickes . it hath stood against all Errours that euer were . There are in it millions , of great schollers : and you but in your ABC yet . It is an armie , castrorum acies ordinata . What , you . you , fight against the church ? as you loue Mirth Waferer , talke no more of that . if you do , men will thinke you be madd .

The compasse , Master Waferer , wherein the battle was to be , was drawne with your Champions owne sword ; the Arguments to be answered , the Scriptures to be expounded , the Fathers to be looked into , were those , & those onlie , which he brought . The subiect of the writing which you will needs stickle in , was a Conference wherein Doctor Smith , now Bishop of Chalcedon , defended against D. Featlie . The Controuersie was about the reall presence . Some twentie yeeres after it was past , your Doctour set forth a Re●ation of that he said had passed in it ; which Relation being partiall , S. E. set out an other . That which the Reader did expect to learne here by , was to know how the matter went ; what were the Arguments , what the Answers : and which of the two Combatants had the honour of the daye . In which case it is impertinent to alleadge other Argumentes , or to heare you dispute four and twentie waies more , against that and other tenets .

When S. E. came to represent againe what had beene donne before , he kept himself within the compasse which your Doctor had prescribed . He made no discourse to shew how in all ages our doctrine had been held , by the Fathers , and Deuines , & the Christian Churches generallie Which thing it had beene easie fo● him to do , after Garetius , & Sainctes and Gualterius , and Bellarmine , Pero● and others , he did not gather together , and vrge , the texts of Scriptur● with all their circumstances , euer hetherto vnderstood , and necessarily to be vnderstood , properlie : he did not cite any Fathers at all but such onlie as your Doctour had obiected , whose meaning he was to declare by their owne writing : euerie one knowing best his owne minde , and being the best interpreter of his owne wordes . He did forbeare to make Arguments , and kept himself vnto the matter obiected by Doctour Featlie ; who otherwise , would haue cried out againe that the lawes of answering were violated . If you would needs vndertake to represent the tother part , you should haue donne the like in that kind ; not haue gonne out of the compasse , to florish there , where no man was : but haue set vpon the Solution where you found it , and this ●oo , not by way of answer to distinctions , as elswhere you do for the most part , repeating still , Doctor Smith ●oth not proue , ( which if he had vndertook , your Champion would haue runne out of the roome ) but by further discouering the force of Arguments there proposed , and the Answers insufficiencie . If you think your self better able to make choise of Arguments for your Doctours tenet ●hen he himself was , he is not much beholding to you for your opinion of his art or iudgment : And vnles you ●hought his to be of themselues to weake , what neede had your witt ●o send a new supplie ? This officiousnes of yours makes litle for his honour .

Hauing giuen a sight of your forces , to those who please to looke on ●hem : you displaie in the the rereward our Opinion : which is , it seemes , so ●asie as any child may conceaue it , and ●er so hard as it exceedes mans capacitie . Elephants are ouer head and eares , and Emmets wade thorough the same water .

Apologist .

Euerie punie can tell you that though bread seemes onlie bread to the eie , and in sustance be nothing els , yet in it's spirituall vse and signification it 's the bodie of our Sauiour : not that Christs bodie is present vnder the accidentall formes of the element , though it be therewith spirituallie eaten . This I confesse to be a mysterie , but if you demaunde what it is , I le answer you as Octauius did Caecilius when he expected to heare what God was , Nobis ad intellectum pectus angustum est &c. so if you expecte to heare exactlie what this mysterie is , I answer it is a Mysterie ; and if I could perfectlie disclose it's secretes , and shew you what it were , then t were no Mysterie .

Censure .

Magnum sibi fatuitas quaedam videtur esse mysterium , saint Cyrill saies . Is it not belike some Chimera you speak of , that is so clearlie dark , and darklie cleare ?

But master Waferer , what difficultie were there to conceaue bread-a-figure , bread-a-signe ? are you confounded at the mysteries of an Iuie-bush , or a letter ? they be signes , as vnlike the thinges they signifie , as bread is vnlike flesh , or wine vnlike blood . Or , if God should please to tell vs , he would giue him grace that receaued bread the signe , worthelie ; what vnconceauable matter were there in in this ? is it not easie to conceaue that he is able to do so ; or that ( if he promise ) he wil performe it ? These , forsooth , you call mysteries ; inexplicable vnconceauable mysteries : least ( when Catholikes obiect the Fathers , admiring indeede our Sauiours being in the Sacrament ) you be without the fantom of an answer .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith saith that a figuratiue speach seemes to haue adioyned vnto it a certaine negation , but there is non egation in a figuratiue speach as figuratiue , saue onlie the negation of , or translation from the natiue signification , which helps to confirme what I said before , that a proper sence and a figuratiue are as much as natiue and not natiue , proper and not proper .

Censure .

Before indeed you complained of those who said you pleaded for a meere figure in the words Hoc est corpus meum ; and if you be remembred , Apol. pag. 9. you saie Doctour Smith would faine father a false opinion vpon you , that you held there is in them a meere figure . which former speach of yours , is not confirmed , but contradicted rather , if now you say that a speach any way figuratiue hath a negation of (a) (a) Do those hold the same , who say Nobis vo biscum de obiecto conuenit ? all proprietie , or a proper speach a gation of all impropreitie . For , were that so the one of them were meerelie & in all respects proper : & the other , meerelie & whollie figuratiue , which thing you there denie . You know Wee do not say that the same speach is either purelie , or absolutlie , both proper and improper : but we say that it may be proper according to the thing signified ; and figuratiue , in regard of the manner of the same thing , as you were told before . which is farre from contradiction in the vnderstanding of him that vnderstands what a contradiction is . as , for an Ethiopian to be absolutlie said black , and yet secundum quid , according to his teeth , white , is no contradiction but a truth , in the iudgment of euerie one that euer saw those men .

That a figuratiue or improper speach hath a negation ioyned to it , as farre as it is figuratiue or improper , it is manifest : for the word improper , signifieth a priuation ; and a priuation doth participate of a negation . Priuatio saies the Philosopher in his Metaphysick , contradictio quaedam est , lib 10. t 15. aut impossibilitas determinata , siue simul accepta cum susceptiuo . I said , as farre as it is figuratiue or improper ; whence it followes that , if it be purelie figuratiue , it hath ioyned to it a perfect or whole negation of proprietie : as in this your example , Herod is a fox . if it be figuratiue onlie as it is related or compared to the manner of the thing signified , it hath not ioyned to it a negation of the thing , but of the manner onlie . and consequentlie , the speach may still remaine proper as farre as concerneth the substance of the thing , which substance is by it directlie signified . as in our example This is my bodie : which wordes , in asmuch as they signifie the substance of our Sauiours bodie , be verified properlie ; though they be not properlie verified according to the manner which the same wordes , if they were taken fullie in their whole vsuall sence , would also import .

When you say that in a figuratiue speach as figuratiue , there is no negation , saue onlie the negation of , or translation from , the natiue signification , you say true considering the force of that your as — But from thence you can no more inferre what you pretend , vzt that it is absolutly figuratiue , then one might inferre of an Ethiopian , that because he is , white secundum quid , according to his teeth , Ergo he is absolutlie white .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith laies downe this rule , that a proposition is absolutlie and simplie to be esteemed proper or figuratiue , rather from the thing which i● affirmeth then from the manner ; which rule is absurd , for there is the same thing affirmed in a figuratiue proposition which is in a proper .

Censure .

Heere is a trick of legerdemain , cunninglie vsed , to steale away the truth , before proued , and approued . The iugling will appeare if your discourse be put in forme . The reason first , There is the same thing affirmed in a figuratiue proposition which is in a proper , as Herodes est vulpes : Herodes est cal●idus ; they be your examples . then your inference , Ergo it is ab●urd to saie that a proposition ( which is proper in regarde of the thing signified by it , and improper in regard of the manner of the same thing vsuallie also signified by the word ) is absolutlie & simplie to be esteemed proper or figuratiue rather from the thing which it affirmeth then from the manner , to wit , of the same thing , who sees not the incoherence of this argument , & that you labour to destroy one truth with an other ? The Controuersie was , and is , about a mixt proposition , such a one , as in regard of the thing directlie signified is proper ; and improper in regard of the manner of the thing . It was said and maintained against Doctor Featlie , that this , Hoc est corpus meum , is such a proposition : and your self must needes graunt it to be so , vnlesse you will haue it to be meerelie figuratiue , or meerelie proper ; both which you disauow , as aboue hath beene declared . If it be not meerlie figuratiue , nor meerlie proper , then sure it is mixt : for a figuratiue speach pure , and vnmixt , is meerlie figuratiue . Moreouer this proposition , being not meerlie figuratiue , is proper as farre as it regards the substance of the thing signified : according to the tenet of the Catholike Church , which holds and beleeues , the bodie , signified properlie by those words , to be reallie and trulie there , according to the veritie and substance of the thing , which , euen according to your owne rule , is enough to make the speach proper , in that sence : for you saye , that proposition is proper in which the predicate doth in i'ts natiue sence signifie that thing which agrees to the subiect . & the same proposition , in as much as it is compared to the manner of the thing , is figuratiue and improper ; for the bodie hath not in the Sacrament the common manner of a bodie , as , extension of parts in order to place , and visibilitie : but another manner , as your Doctor was also told . Which being so , the Question was touching the modus loquendi , Whether this mixt proposition , being proper in regard of the substance , and improper in regard of the manner , ( or generallie , Whether a proposition which is proper in regard of the substance , & improper in regard of the manner , ) be flatlie and simplie to be said proper , or improper ? Whereunto it was answered , and well , that a proposition is absolutlie and simplie to be esteemeed ( proper or figuratiue , proper or improper ) rather from the thing which it affirmeth , then from the manner : and consequentlie , since the proposition ( hoc est corpus meum ) is proper in regard of the thing it affirmeth , it is absolutelie to be said a proper speach . The reason of the rule is manifest , for the denomination is to be taken from that which is the principall ; and the thing , doubtles . is more principall then the manner of the thing : the substance , more principall then it 's accidentall manner . an Ethiopian though he be white secundum quid , is absolutelie or sine addito said black .

Your owne rule before cited , confirmes all this , but this is not the first time you fight against your self we know , the same thing may be signified by diuers propositions , whereof some be proper , & others figuratiue : as in holie Scripture we find the Diuine perfections to be signified sometimes by proper speaches and sometimes by metaphoricall . But the Question was , Whether one , and the same proposition , ( not diuers , but one ) being proper in regard of the thing signified , and improper and figuratiue in regard of the manner , were to be called absolutlie , sine addito , proper ; and onlie secundum quid , according to the manner , figuratiue ? As if it had beene demaunded , whether one that is white onlie secundum dentes , and all the rest black , be flatlie or simplie to be said white , or black , the Answer was , that the proposition , hauing in it the foresaide mixture , was rather to be saide proper ; and the man , rather to be saide black , which is true , notwithstanding that there be other men , some white some black : and other propositions , some figuratiue , some proper , respecting the same thing .

Apologist .

No proposition is figuratiue according to the thing signified .

Censure .

You meane that it hath not that denomination as it is vnder a reference to that thing . Before you said it , I thought otherwise , and shall do so still , euen of that which you bring for Instance , Herodes est vulpes . that your proposition , is figuratiue in comparison to the thing signified , which is Herods Wilines . this wilines of Herod , the proposition doth signifie and affirme ; not properlie , ( it is not the proper signification of vulpes , ) but metaphoricallie , and by translating the word to signifie that wherein Herod hath some kind of analogie or agreement with a foxe ; Orators look not for Metaphors in things but in words . Ad vnum verbum contracta similitudo . as you know by the nature of metaphors , out of Aristotle , Tullie , and others . And because vulpes , the predicate , doth not properlie , but metaphoricallie , signifie that thing which is affirmed vpon Herod , therefore is the proposition figuratiue and improper , euen by comparison to that thing , it is an improper signe of that which you would haue me to conceaue . The word indeed hath an other signification , which is that we call proper , which your dictionarie leads you to , but according to the thing which answers to that , it 's proper signification , the proposition is not verified . In all other pure figuratiue propositions you shall find the same , and therefore you must alter your vnlearned assertion , that no proposition is figuratiue according to the thing signified ; and all your discourse that depends vpon it , wherein , impertinentlie to the matter in Question , you compare one materiall obiect or thing , to seuerall propositions : whereas you should compare one proposition to the principall and proper , or secundarie and improper obiect of it's termes . The proper obiect of this word or signe vulpes , is a foxe . it signifies that thing , properlie , and taking it as it signifies to vs that thing , the proposition is false : the improper obiect whereunto by translation it is extended , is a wilie fellowe ; and taking it in this sense , the proposition is true . neither are these thinges in this manner signified , one and the same thing : vnles a wilie man perchance be properlie , with you , a foxe .

Moreouer , the manner of signifying in wordes , is either proprius , natiue & proper : Sensus sacrae Scripturae , literalis , mysticus , Sensus literalis , proprius , improprius . Sensus mysticus , alleg . tropol . anagoric . vt infra . or improprius , and translatitius , metaphoricall , and improper . Euerie word that hath a metaphoricall signification , hath a proper also ; as appeares by the etymologie of the name . and the way to know in which sense the proposition ( wherein it stands ) is verified , and consequentlie whether it be taken in the proper or the metaphoricall sence , is to compare it to the thing . Herod is a fox , Mirth is a locust . If you compare the proposition in it's proper signification , to the thing , it is improportionable , difforme , and false : if you compare the same ( material ) proposition in it's metaphoricall signification , to the thing , it is proportionable , conforme , true . Wherevpon we conclude the speach to be metaphoricall . If the proposition be according to the natiue sence verified vpon , or in , the thing , we say that it is proper : as these other . Herod is wilie , Mirth is an Heretick . If it be verified according to the substance of the thing properlie signified , not according to the manner ; it will then be called proper absoluté sine addito , taking the denomination from that which is principall ; For wee say that a thing is white , or not white , not because all is so , but because the greatest or most parts be so . ( Dicimus enim aliquid ess● album aut non album , non quia totum es● tale saith the Philosopher , 6. Phys. tex. 38. sed quia maximae partes eius , & plures , sunt tal●s ; ) though not omnibus modis , in regard of the improprietie annexed , respectiuelie to the manner . as this : hoc est corpus meum .

Before I leaue this point I must put you againe in mind how you do still weaken your owne opinion more & more , and fight against your fellowes whilst you contend that heere corpus the predicate is taken improperlie . It is true that if it were taken improperlie according to the thing signified by it , the proposition were figuratiue or improper : but it is false , euen in the iudgment of the learnedest of your owne men ( so ignorant you are in the cause you vndertake ) that it is so taken . The word corpus , ( I repeate the same againe ) is not taken improperlie according to the thing by it signified not , as the word vulpes , in your proposition ( which is your great Masters instance in this very matter ) Herodes est vulpes . no. But properlie , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 for that substance quam cruci affixam , & in sepulchro depositam Verbum suscitauit à mortuis , de qua suscitata dictum est , videte manus meas & pedes meos contrectate me & videte , nam Spiritus carnem & ossa non habet prout me conspicitis habere . quam denique transtulit in coelos inde reddendam terris postremo aduentu . denique quicquid dici potest ad describendum , circumscriben dumque , suis veris proprietatibus illud ipsum indiuiduum . for that substance which being nailed to the Crosse , and laid in the sepulcher , the Word raised from the dead ; of which ( substance ) it is said , See my hands and my feete , feele me and see : for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as you see I haue . Moreouer that substance which h● caried into heauen , to render it againe a● the last comming , and finallie , what eue● can be said to describe and circumscribe the very same indiuiduall substance with it's true propertie . So your Chamier , l. 10. c. 2. confessing Corpus to be , by our Sauiour , taken litterallie 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 not in a borrowed but in the natiue sence : howeuer you , Master waferer , will haue it not to be taken heere in it's natiue but in a borrowed sence : and the proposition ( this which you speake of ) therefore to be figuratiue because the word that is the predicate is so taken .

I omit to note further how you be troubled with an equiuocation of a speach figuratiue according to the manner , hauing not wit enough to distinguish the modus essendi , which is in the obiect , from the modus significandi , which is in the word or speach : or to know vnder what reference a word hath proprietie ; vnder what , it hath not ; & how , and when , these denominations be pure or vnpermixte . But I haue now giuen you occasion ( enough for for a Scholler ) to reflect vpon the matter . On you go to seeke : and if you cannot finde , to make , absurdities .

Pugnantia secum Frontibus aduersis componere . Apologist .

S. E. seekes to iustifie that answer of his Lords of a figure mixt of a figuratiue and proper action , for he saith that the same speech may be proper and figuratiue , as a garment of a mingled colour is white and black : but let him know that it is not the same speech if either the signification or the manner of signifying be changed .

Censure .

you and your Doctour in his Relation , purposelie inuolue things that in themselues are cleere . My Lord had said , not of a figure , but of a speach , ( that of our Sauiour vnles you eate the flesh &c. ) that , according to S. Augustine , it was mixt , which he declared at large in the Conference . & M. Featlie himself takes notice of it , telling vs that he said our Sauiours speech , Feat . Relat. pag. 294 vnles you eate &c. is proper and figuratiue according to S. Augustin : figuratiue according to the manner of eating , but according to the matter it self , proper : and so it is a mixt speach of a proper and a figuratiue , thus your Doctor himself at last relates it ; obscuring the same againe presentlie in the accommodation of the distinction to the thing in Question .

What that is which you would teach S. E. touching the speach of our Sauiour , ( which is not meerelie figuratiue euen by your owne confession ; ) neither I , nor you know . The Holie Bible is still the same , though there be in it both proprietie of speach , and figures . A mingled garment is still one , though there be in it white and black , and a proposition which is verified improperlie , according to the manner of the obiects being , which is vsuallie by the wordes ( consequentlie as it were ) imported ; and properlie according to the substance of the thing directlie signified , is still one and the same proposition .

Apologist .

Why doth S. E. instance in that proposition ( 1. Cor. 15. it is sowne a naturall bodie , it is raised a spiritual , ) to proue that a proper sence , and a figuratiue may be in one proposition ?

Censure .

It had beene requisite you had first beene able to vnderstand what is said , before you began , to take vpon you to refute it . S. E. brings examples to shew that it is not peculiar to S. Augustine onlie , to call a thing spirituall in regard of the manner , though substantiallie , or according to the substance it be not so ; for in like manner Sainct Ierome doth call on Sauiours flesh , which is flesh indeed and reallie , spirituall in regard of the manner which in the Sacrament it hath ; Spiritualis atque diuina caro de qua ( Christus ) dixit , Caro mea vere est cibus &c. And S. Paul for the like reason doth call the bodie after it is risen againe , spirituall , seminatur corpus animale , surgit corpus spirituale . Confer . pag. 47. His words are , And as S. Austine heere calls this speach figuratiue in regard of the manner , though the same speach in regard of the substance receaued be not figuratiue , So doth S. Ierome call the flesh of our Sauiour in the Eucharist spirituall in regard of the manner , though the substance of flesh be not a Spirit ; and the Apostle tearmes the bodie spirituall in regard of the condition it shall haue in the Resurrection though for substance it consistes of matter still , and by corporeum differ from a spirit intrinsicallie as much then as it doth nowe So he .

Next vnto this willfull mistake , you enter into a discourse of diuerse senses in one and the same place ; which discourse laies your ignorance more open : but is little to the matter of the Conference . That there are not two senses a figuratiue and a proper in one place of Scripture , you will proue , Waf. pag. 36. you say . If you meant to proue that one and the same place , cannot be figuratiue secundum quid , in regard of the manner , & absolutè , proper , as hath beene defended before , in seuerall occasions , you quicklie forget what you meant to do , or were not able to do what faine you would haue donne : for you bring not anie argument at all to make it good . Of litterall senses in generall , you write something , confusedlie , and seeme to denie there may be manie in one place or text of Scripture : but not one argument appeares to proue the thing which wanted proofe , vzt , that one and the same place could not be figuratiue , secundum quid , and proper absolutè or simpliciter . If you meant to proue that one & the same proposition could not be proper absoluté , simpliciter ; and improper or figuratiue absoluté simpliciter ; your labour was impertinent , since the proposition in Question was neuer said by my Lord or S. E. to be such . neither haue they said that any other proposition had the two sences mentioned , in that manner . That the same man may be white secundum quid , and absoluté black ; the same speach , improper secundum quid , and absoluté proper , hath beene said ; and the speach obiected , hoc est corpus meum , is such . That this , or anie other , is absoluté proper , and absoluté figuratiue or improper ; or the same man absolute white , and absolutè black , is the meteor of your braine , which like an Ignis fatuus leads your argument still out of the right way .

The sence of a place of Scripture is either literall or mysticall . Some places haue both ; as that , Abraham (a) (a) It is written that Abraham had two sonnes , the one by a bond-maid , the other by a freewoman . But he who was of the bond-woman was borne after the flesh ; but he of the free-woman , by promise ( 24. ) which things are said by an Allegorie : for these are the two testaments , the one from the mount Sina which gendreth to bondage , which is Agar . &c. ( 26. ) But Hierusalem which is aboue , is free , which is the mother of vs all . &c. Now wee brethren , according as Isaac , are the children of promise . ( 29 ) but as then he that was borne after the flesh persecuted him that was ( borne ) after the Spirit : euen so it is now . Ad Galat. 4. duos filios habuit , vnam de ancilla , & vnam de libera ; sed , qui de ancilla secundum carnem natus est , qui autem de libera per repromissionem . Gal. 4. The mysticall sense is threefold , allegoricall , tropologicall , and anagogicall , and the same place may some times haue all three . For example , in the place now cited , and as it is expounded by the Apostle , there is the Allegoricall , Haec sunt duo testamenta &c. v. 24. the Anagogicall , illa autem quae sursum est Hierusalem &c. v. 26. and the tropological , sed quomodo tunc is qui secundum carnem natus fuerat persequebatur eum quisecundum spiritum , ita & nunc . v. 29.

Concerning literall senses , it is the tenet of S. Augustine lib. 12. Confes . that there may be diuers ; tWo three , four , or more ; in the same words , and since a word may haue many significations , why might not the Holie Ghost , vnderstanding all verities , and all significations , of all words , vse the same words , in the same speach , ( as that ; in the beginning God created Heauen and Earth , ) in many significations , at once ? This speach in Isaie , generationem eius quis enarrabit , the Fathers vnderstand sometimes of the temporall , sometimes of the eternall generation of our Sauiour ; and that of God the Father , in the Psalmes , Filius meus es tu , Ego hodie genui te : the Apostle takes in one sense , Act. 13. and in an other sense , Heb. 1.

Touching the mixture of proper & figuratiue ; it hath beene tould you that the same place may be proper absolutè , simpliciter ; and figuratiue secundum quid : you crie out for one such , and do not mark that before your face you haue alreadie two : nisi manducaueritis carnem filii hominis &c. and hoc est corpus meum . That this is proper according to the substance of the thing signified , we proue by the common rule of interpreting the Scripture , when it proposeth dogmaticallie matters of Diuine beleefe , and the same is confirmed to vs abundantlie by other places of Holie Scripture which do concerne this Sacrament and sacrifice , and by the testimonie of the Holie Ghost in the Catholik and vniuersall Church , which did euer beleeue it since our Sauiour ( truth it self ) spake these wordes . That the same speach is figuratiue & improper in regard of and respectiuelie to the manner of the thing which manner vsuallie the word corpus doth import , it is euident ; for , the bodie hath not in the sacrament , extension of parts in order to place : but is there , all in euerie part of the dimensions of bread , according to the manner of a Spirit .

When M. Mirth had come thus farre , imagining ( poore man ) that he had got some victorie , he puts a crowne vpon his head ; and snatching the trumpet , giues notice of a new battle ; wherein he meanes to set vpon the little digression of S. E. which digression he cruellie dismembers ; and spurnes the pieces of it ouer the rest this Section , to and fro ; contemptiblie . I cannot without pittie see the thing so misused ; perhaps if the parts be gathered together , the discourse may stand againe ; and affright him , in the middest of his triumph .

Apologist .

Next I will runne ouer againe this section , and page by page will answer the daintie subtilities of Master S. E. and iustifie our Doctors discourse against his Notes .

Censure .

If you will proue your tenet , you must ouer againe , and a thousand times againe ; and then will find your self ( as the mill-horse doth after all his labour ) euen there in the end where you were in the beginning . Did not this appeare in your Doctors first argument , and in this you now prosecute , which is the second ? can you do more then he ? but now , forsooth , you will answer page by page : and in matter of Logick & Philosophie . We haue lost allreadie to much time in hearing your 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , and this ( though the matter come neerer to your cap ) will ( most liklie ) be lost also , but you teach , & wee must harken , you will answer subtilities you say , page by page , that is , exactlie .

Fortasse cupressum Scis simulare . Apologist .

you say words do signifie conceptions , I would haue you know there is a great deale of difference betwixt conceptio , and conceptus .

Censure .

Satis pro imperio . What S. E. meant by a conception you haue presentlie in his next words , The conception is an Image representing the thing which wee think on . This Image , vitallie proceeding in the minde , is properlie in English named a conception of the vnderstanding . Confer . pag. 8. Some name your Mastership will allow it in our language ; such as may distinguish it from the obiect or the thing conceaued . I pray you turne your Dictionarie and find what name this is . turne to which word you please , conceptus , or , conceptio . S. E. vsed neither , but onlie said words do signifie the conceptions of the mind . which English , you cauilling at , should haue mended ; ( seeing you will needes make your self his Master : ) and haue taught him , and your owne Dictionarie to speake it better , in good English : and such english as doth not equallie signifie things obiected , whether they be feigned , or not feigned .

For proofe of this Assertion , words do signifie the conceptions of the mind , he needed not your helpe , hauing cited in the margine these words of Aristotle , ( which it seemes you do not vnderstand , ) sunt ergo ea quae sunt in voce , earum quae sunt in anima passionum notae . neither had he neede of Smiglecius , hauing cited the Commentators interpretation , which is cleare enough , dictiones significant primó intentiones quae sunt in anima .

Apologist .

you tell how the species which together with the vnderstanding concurre to the framing of verbum mentis , are sent into the mind or vnderstanding by way of sence ; but you are deceaued ; these species which concurre with the vnderstanding to frame verbum mentis , are species intelligibiles , and the obiect sends no species into the eie , or anie other sence , but sensible species , and those sensible species are not sent into the vnderstanding by way of sence .

Censure .

It would haue well become a Master , ( Master Waferer , ) if he finds a fault , to shew the way to mend it . and if you do not shew that it is indeed a fault , howeuer your sillie Pupils may be content to beleeue it on your word without euidence of reason ( and will profit accordinglie in their studies , ) your aduersaries in the matter , will not .

If the species of paper , be not sent into your mind by paper , and by the way of sence , how came it thether ? did you know what was in this Censure before you reade it ? are you able to make vs a particular description of that part of the world which is not yet discouered , and to write vs their historie ? it seemes you can ; for you gather not your knowledge by waie of sence . your Intellect , by priuiledge , was otherwise stored from the beginning , which is the reason why you teach diuinitie before you learnd it ; and talke non-sence , so familiarlie : whilst others comming more nakedlie into the world , with their Quo omnia fieri , the passiue or possible : and quo omnia facere , the agent ; are faine to learne before they teach , and to abstract from the phantasmes ( which exteriour obiectes by the sence cause in them ) the formes of thinges , whereby they may conceaue or vnderstand .

Aristotle thought that the possible vnderstanding or intellect , is , Arist. 3. de Anima . ● . 4. & 13. as a painters table that hath yet no picture in it : and his reason doth demonstrate what he saith . In this table , the Soule ( whose instruments all the powers be ) doth with her actiue intellect , as with a spirituall hand , describe the species of that which is represented and offered to her by the phantasie : & then doth vse it ( the same species ) to conceaue intellectuallie the obiect of it , Imaginatio aliud est a sensu , & arationatione . Arist. 2. de Animat . t. 153. which obiect it had onlie imagined or by the phantasie conceaued before .

The phantasme of it selfe was not able to describe the foresaid species or Image in the spirituall table which the soule hath , as wanting actiuitie in this higher kind ; but there is in the soule power enough to make it . A faire picture in a transparent glasse-window , is not of it self able to make it's species in the aire , or in your eie ; but light comming vpon it , the species is made : so heere the picture which is in the Imagination cannot of it self worke a species in your understanding , but the spirituall light comming on it , Species impressa , the species is imprinted . This way , according to the Philosopher , the species comes into our mind : and from the thing conceaued . First into the exteriour sence : from thence ; ( not the same species numero , but in equiualence the same ) into the interiour sence ; and still further , till at last ( being purged of it's materiall conditions , or abstracted from them , ) it arriues in the vnderstanding : where it is not corporeall , as in the senses , but spirituall according to the nature of the power wherein it is receaued , and is not a sensible specie ( that is , seruing for the sense to know by ) but an intellectiue species , as being in the vnderstanding , and seruing it to conceaue the thing that was offered to the sense ; a man , paper ; Quoniam autem vt in vniuersa natura est aliquid , alterum materia cuique geners : quod ia●o sic est , quod potentia est illa omnia ▪ alterum causa & effectinum , eo quod omnia efficiat , quae res vsu venit in arte si cum materia comparetur : ita etiam in anima hae adsint differentiae necesse est . Atque est quidam intellectus talis quod omnia fiat , quidam quod omnia faciat , veluti habitus , perinde ac lumen : nam lumen quoque quodammodo sacit actu colores , eos qui sunt potentia colores Arist. 3 de Anima . t. 17. & 18. In nobis intellectus agens & possibilis est per comparationem ad phantasmata . quae quidem comparantur ad intellectum possibilem vt colores ad visum : ad intellectum autem agentem vt colores ad lumen , vt patet te●tio de Anima . S. Tho. 1. p. qu. 54. a. 4. whitenes .

Apologist .

That which presents it self to the eie saith S. E. is not the pure essence or quidditie of a thing as they speake in Schooles ; it is an extended coloured thing , which thing we do see , and conceaue , and name , agreeing that such or such a word shall be in speach the signe of it . And do they in the Schooles indeed say that we do conceaue a man as we see him , not in the pure essence or quidditie of a man but as an extended or coloured thing ? and do wee agree that this word ( man ) shall be a signe of that extended coloured thing ?

Censure .

Had you meant to make such a comment , you should haue left out the text by which the Reader presentlie seeth your mistak . Doth S. E. tell you that in schooles we do not conceaue a man in the pure essence and quidditie of a man ? he knowes well enough how a man is conceaued , both in the schooles of Metaphysick , which doth abstract from sensible matter ; & in the Schooles of naturall Philosophie which doth not abstract from it , but it seemes that you do not ; and therefore if you were yet to begge your grace for Master , you were in danger to be put back , least the Vniuersitie in your ignorance should be disgraced . And the rather , because you do not vnderstand a peece of plaine English , which you take vpon you to refute . In S. E. thus it is . That which presents it self to the eie to be seen ( marke that , Confer . pag. 51. to the eie , ) is not the pure essence or quidditie of a thing as they speake in schooles , and you by experience know it , but it is a thing sensible , and to be perceaued with this organe and facultie , ( mark that also , with this organ ; this organ and this eie , is not our vnderstanding , one would think ; ) it is an extended coloured thing , which thing , we do see , and conceaue , and name , ( I pray you haue not you a name , did your Godfather if you be Chrisned , vnderstand or conceaue the thing he named ; or did he not conceaue it ? how knowes he you , his God sonne , from an other man or woman ? ) agreeing that such or such a word , shall be in speach a signe of it .

Apologist .

Looking on a man , saith S. E. we conceaue in our minde his figure , colour &c , ( you had neede put in &c. ) representing all in one image , we subordinate , as a signe of it and of it's obiect also this word man . Now I perceaue you dreame that the sensible obiectes come into the understanding ; which makes you tell vs of an extended coloured thing .

Censure .

If S. E. can dreame so well , it seemes that his dreames are better then your watchings ; and that he can discourse of Philosophie in his sleepe better then you can do when you prepare your papers for the print . That which first of all moues our vnderstanding ( whilst it is heere in our bodie ) is a sensible thing , sending into it a species in manner aboue specified . Were all such remoued out of the world , and that a man by no sence at all euer perceaued any thing , his tabula picturae aptata that he brought with him into the world , would be in the end as naked as it was in the beginning of his life . When he hath once gotten the species of some things , he can finde out some others ; as by the effect he finds a cause ; by Creatures , God : Rom. 1. Inuisibi ia ipsius ( D i ) a creatura mundi per ea quae facta sunt , intellecta a conspiciuntur , sempiterna quoque eius virtus & diuinitas ; but first his vnderstanding must be moued by something that offers it self vnto the sence , whose nature it abstractes from the materiall or indiuiduall conditions , and so directlie conceaues it ; S. Thom. 1. p. q. 84. a. 6. being able also ( by reflection at least ) to conceaue singulars , which the sence perceaues directlie . The parcell which you cite out of S. E. is so maimed that it hath lost all sence , but I will presentlie restore it .

Apologist .

Heare what your owne wordes say , this word man signifies a man is a thing not in his pure essence and quidditie as they speake in schooles , but an extended coloured , figured thing &c. Is not this a prittie brat of your owne conception , and laid at the Schooles like a bastard to see who will father it ? either blush your self or giue me leaue to laugh : I thought before that all that this name ( homo ) doth import were animal rationale , sure I am the definition doth answer perfectlie to the definitum , & is exactlie true without respect had to colour or figure .

Censure .

The whirlewind in your braines hath so confounded the species of things , that all is now troubled which comes from you , whether you relate or dispute : wherefore I must looke vpon S. E. his booke , & thence transcribe his wordes which you cauill at . Next vnto those by me before cited , he said thus , Looking on a man , we conceaue in our mind his figure , 〈…〉 51. colour , &c. representing all in one Image , to which Image we subordinate ( as a signe of it , and of it's obiect also ) this word , a man . Where he saith ( you see ) that this word man , is imposed to signifie that sensible thing whose Image we had conceaued in our mind ; and to such things men vse to giue names . Aske your neighbour what a calf , or Turrian oxe , or a bull , signifies ; and he will tell you of a sensible figured thing . & the same substance may be , successiuelie , all ; excepte there be oxen with you that neuer were calues . and aske a scholler , he will still tell you there is difference betwixt an oxe , and a calf ; they be not synonyma . you are not a child you think ; yet are a man : what is become of your other substance , that indiuiduall substance which longe agoe you had ? or is it still the same ?

But either S. E. must blush , or he must giue you leaue to laugh . What needs the disiunctiue , M. Waferer ? he may blush , and you laugh too . neither neede you his leaue to laugh where and when you will . Though much laughing in others be no good cognizance , it agrees with you so well that it were inciuilitie to denie you the vse of it , your priuiledge , and naturall propertie ; for you are Mirth . And he may blush , and so may Alban-Hall , and Oxford , and your Mother , all may blush ; and haue cause to blush in you : the first in an aduersarie ; the second in a pupill ; the third in a graduate , and the fourth in a sonne .

But whilst you laugh , do not distracte me too ; for I am studying hard and seriouslie , vpon a Question ; which your discouse hath occasioned in my mind : and my poore inuention hath searched all the species and formes in her litle closet to find a solution for it , and none will serue ; vnlesse peraduenture one , which she hath put aside . I can not well propose it in common ; but I will softlie tell it you . Sir this it is : Whether your mother were a man ? S. E. ( Doctor ) was not deceaued . Forma dat nomen & esse . the reason of doubt which occurres out of your discourse ( and not to doe her any wrong , I haue indeede no other reason to moue such a doubt , though sometimes her sonne doth argue without reason , ) is , because , if the definition of a man , all that the word or name doth signifie , do agree to her , the name also doth , and may be verified on her : now the definition of a man Animal rationale , ( which you would haue your Reader to beleeue is all that the word signifies , ) doth agree to her ; for I suppose your mother was some reasonable creature : whence it followes , vnles you will diuorce the definition and definitum , that the name ( which doth signifie that definition , and that onlie if you saie true , without respecte had to colour or figure or any other accidens ) doth agree to your mother : Waf. pag. 41. and consequentlie this is true , that your mother is a man .

A man , I say : that is the word in Question ; that was the word of S. E. in his example ; and if it be graunted once that it signifies more then the substance or quidditie , more then animal rationale ( as it must do if it signifies not your mother , aswell as you : ) then his discourse is currant , and your exception both vnlearned , and impertinent , he did not instance in the latine word homo ; he meant to giue the Readers who do not all vnderstand latine , an example of that he had said , in our owne language , which hath names also , you might haue knowne too , that some latine wordes signifie more then some other , English , or latin do that be taken some times for the same , homo , signifies more then vir . May it please your learned Mastership to consider with your self how this argument may be satisfied ; but let none els know . The forme I laide aside , was the species of an hermaphrodite . I suppose you will make no further speach of it . Lapidi dictum puto .

Apologist .

You ( S. E. ) adde that without colour and quantitie the name is not perfectlie answerable to the intellectuall image ; as if the vnderstanding did conceaue man as coloured : you must conceaue coloratum is the proper obiect of the sence of seeing , and therefore can not be the obiect of the vnderstanding formallie and qua sic .

Censure . Nullo thure litabis Haereat in ( ) breuis vt semiuncia recti .

If a reasonable creature , without adding more , doth answere fullie to the name we speake of , ( man , ) your mother Master Waferer , is a man , there is no waie to scape ; Laeto . vnles you say that she hath not all this , and so either is no creature , no animal ; or not rationale , not reasonable ; or , neither animal nor rationale ; Or that the word ( man ) signifieth more then animal rationale that is not in your mother , which were to retract your Apologie and to let the discourse of S. E. stand againe , as first it did .

Moreouer , you must acknowledge that a mans vnderstanding can conceaue , not onlie substance , but also colours , and quantitie , and figures : and consequentlie , it may be able to conceaue an extended , and figured , and coloured , liuing substance . How do you conceaue the Predicaments , the ten genera , and their species ? whith your intellect , or with your heeles ? or not at all ? if your heeles serue your turne , you may runne ouer them apace without troubling of your head : if not at all , he was forsworne that presented you for your grace : if with your intellect , then ones vnderstanding may conceaue a man coloured , he may conceaue colour as well as man ; and colour in a man , and , for that as , you may keepe it till there be neede ; together with your formallie and qua sic . Let coloratum or what els you please be the proper obiect of the sight ; it is all vnder the obiect of the intellectiue power , which may know what all the sences can ; and more , whereby it comes to passe , that coloratum cannot be the proper or adequate obiect of this power ; but some thing larger , that includes it .

Apologist .

If ( homo ) signifie colour , what colour is ( homo ) I pray ? If you say white , then say I a black man is no man ▪ if black then a white man is not perfectlie a man .

Censure .

This is but to make waie for a conceipt as you think , which your head was great withall ; albus an ater ( homo ) sit nescio . Waf. Ibidem . Suppose I put color , into the place of homo ; & argue ( as you do , ) thus ; If the latine word color doth signifie colour , what colour is ( color ) I pray you ? if white , black is none : if black , white is none . To Which Question your Mastership thinks there is no other Answer possiblie to be made , but this , albus an ater sit nescio . The Philosophers are wont to saie that in genere latent aequiuocationes : do you vnderstand this ? I think not . But , to your interrogatorie ; the species or differences in colour , which you speake of , are not properties of the nature of man● but the one , of this , the other of that , Indiuiduum ; from which the species or nature is abstracted ▪ and no man is without colour ; it is found in all and euerie one : An black for example . though this or that ( a ) determinate colour be not in euerie one . In the extraction of a definition , we looke wherein all agree ; beginning first as we can , with a fewe ; The conclusion . & still comparing more and more , till we find the notion common vnto all . Facilius est singula de finire quàm vniuersale ; Arist. 2. Post . Anal . ● . 82.83 . qua propter oportet a singularibus ad ad vniuersalia transire : aequiuocationes enim latent magis in vniuersalibus quàm in indifferentibus , quemadmodum autem in demonstrationibus oportet ( a ) esse ipsum , syllogizatum fuisse , ita & in definitionibus manifestum est . hoc autem erit si per ea quae singulariter dicuntur , sit in vnoquoque genere definire seorsum , vt simile non omne , sed quod in coloribus & figuris , & acutum quod in voce , & ita in commune progredi obseruantem , ne aequiuocatio incidat . Cum ad senatum rediremus , atque vt missa in vniuersum aboleretur ageremus &c restabat aahuc non minimus conatus quo scilicet exempla proderemus qua nulla cum parabola coniuncta forent coepimus omnia cogitare , attamen aliud nihil exemplorum occurrebat , &c. cum vero tredecima dies adpeteret , vera nar●o , &c. visus sum mihi in somno multo cum taedio denuo contendere cum aduersario scriba , sicque obmutuisse vt — ibi tanquam é machina visus est monitor adesse , ater fuerit an albus nihil memini ( somnium enim narro ) qui diceret , qum ignau● respondeses quod in Exodo scribitur , est enim Phase , id est , transitus Domini protinus vt hoc phasma visum est simul expergesio , & e lecto exilio , locum apud septuaginta primum vndique circumspicio , ac de eo coram tota concione pro virili dissero . Swinglius lib. de subsid , Eucharist .

The acumen of your iest , albus and ater . ( Wherewith you bred your self a difficultie , your aduersarie suffering none , as you haue seene , ) hath let your cause blood ( so vnwarie you were ) in the head-veine , See the liues of Luther , Swinglius , Corolstadius , &c. By Master Brierley . by directing the minde of the hearer to the stories of your predecessours , the glories of your Gospell , Luther , Caralostadius & Swinglius ; who were instructed by a black thing , the Deuill ; against the Masse . Luther saith in plaine tearmes , it was Diabolus and Satan . & Swinglius ater fuerit an albus nihil memini . But Conradus Sclusselburg ( himself a Protestant ) with diuers other Protestantes , affirme that , without doubt , it was tho Deuil , Sole meridiana clarius est non Deum verum , sed Diabolum ipsissimum , Swinglio per somnium suam Haeresin Sacramentariam inspirasse . Schlu . Theop. Caluin . in prooem , It is more cleere then sunne light at mid-day that it was not the true God but the very Diuell himself that inspired into Swinglius in a dreame his Sacramentarian heresie . Not albus then , but ater .

Thus farre touching the Philosophicall part of that Digression , ( the rest you were content to lett passe , as you do still the grearest part of S. E. his Notes , without replie , ) in the examen wherof you haue shewed your ignorance in that kind of learning too . It is needles to examine that poore Inference which you build vpon your owne mistakes . that will fall of it self ▪ it tottered , and was sensles when I looked on it . Next , you will needs , thrust in a dispute , of the veritie of propositions .

Apologist .

A proposition is not said to true or false because it is answerable to the intellectuall image , but answerable to the thing .

Censure .

That which S. E. had said , was this ; that in attributing the name to a thing ( for example the name man , to your mother ) we seeme to saie that it hath in it self , Confer . pag. 52. al which the name doth signifie ; that is , all which the conception ( wherunto this name was subordinated as a signe ) doth represent : which is not exactlie true ( you will sweare in the example of your mother ) if the forsaid exteriour forme be wanting . Apolog. pag. 44. Heere was , you see , little cause for you to come in with your let me tell you that a proposition is not said to be true &c.

Did wee suppose a vocall proposition had formallie in it self , veritie , in comparison to the thing or obiect , still the discourse of S. E. doth stand good : for euen in that case , you must saie that words had their significations giuen them by men that vnderstand ; who appointed them to be signes , not of what thinges soeuer , but , of those which they conceaued . whence it will follow that , the word or name cannot be exactlie verified in the thing , if in the same thing be not all , imported by the name . But , formall veritie , if Aristotle may be iudge , is in the vnderstanding ; non enim est falsum & verum in rebus sed in mente . 6. M●t. tex . 8. And vocall propositions are said true , inasmuch as they be signes of true mentall propositions . Sunt ergo ea quae in voce earum quae sunt in mente passionum notae : & ea quae scribuntur earum quae sunt in voce . lib. 1. de Interp. tex . 1. For the interpretation of which words we will not be beholding to Smiglecius as you would haue vs . many write Philosophie , that vnderstand not the Philosoper : and whether he be one of those , or not , I neither know , nor meane to looke . the words are cleere without a Comment. Wherein formall veritie doth consist , wherein transcendentall veritie , and how the vnderstanding whilst it doth attribute the predicate to the subiect doth in actu exercito know truth ; are things not appertaining to this place : nor ( if one may iudge of your skill in this by the rest which you haue vttered ) within the sphere of your knowledge .

I had almost forgot to take notice of two other passages in this your Examen of the Digression ; the one is , how easilie in the heate of your passion , you bring a man ( had it beene your Aduersarie you might haue begd a solemne Triumph ) to almost nothing . Hauing defined him , ( you say , out of S. E. ) a thing not in his pure essence and quidditie , but extended and coloured &c. first ( your a. a. Heare what your owne words say , this word man signifies a thing — so then we will be beholding to you for perfecting the definition of a man thus , homo est animal quantum & coloratum ; as good as that of Plato Homo est animal bipes & inplume . and as the Philosopher put a cock with his feathers pluckt of , into Plato his schoole & cryed Ecce homo Platonicus , so might wee put a picture of a man into yours and crie Ecce homo Iesuiticus , because you will be content with this definition Homo est quid quantum & coloratum . Waferer pag. 42.43 . words are in the margine ) you laugh at this man . ( belike your Father was not such a thing ; but one of the naked , abstracted substances , which otherwhile conuerse with women , ) you first ( I say ) laugh at the man . and then begin to dispoile him of his definition . the difference rationale you cut of ; and define him , animal quantum & coloratum : then you laugh at him againe , and bring in Diogenes ghost to keepe you companie . After this you take out animal ; and so make him sensles , thus ; homo est quid quantum & coloratum . He is mangled enough , now , one would think ; hauing neither eies , nor hands , nor eares : you haue made of him a lump of earth , quid quantum & coloratum . one blow more and you may beat him into dust . but that will not satisfie your rage ; you turne him thus diffigured , this quantum & coloratum into a meere shape or picture , that he may be without substance : and then you stab him through , with an Ecce homo Iesuiticus ; wherewith you fixe him to the paper , where he hanges Pag. 43. till he be torne out , to light tobacco , and so turned into smoke .

The other passage is about sucking (a) (a) will you saie that an Ivie bush is not a signe that wine is to be sold there , because you cannot suck sack , claret , & white wine out of an Ivy leafe ? Wafer . pag. 44. wine out of an Iuie bush . you do but bungle in the application ; I will help you to do it better . It is an Embleme of your communion ; wherein you suck , blood , out of wine . your opinion is that it is nothing indeede but wine , standing for the signe of blood ; as an Iuie bush before the tauerne dore , is nothing but Iuie , standing for a signe of wine . You saie alsoe , that it doth exhibite to you reallie the blood of Iesus Christ , euen that which was shed vpon the crosse . Is not this like sucking wine out of a signe wherein it is not ; out of a bush of Iuie ? It is as fit an exposition , as apt a simile , as one would haue desired , onlie we must recite some of your doctrine which it doth illustrate . Pag. 10. you saie , Though the verie bodie and blood of Christ be not substantiallie contained vnder the shapes of bread and wyne , yet they are reallie communicated by the holie Ghost vnto vs at & by ( marke that by ) the faithfull & worthie receauing of those mysteries . Pag. 13. bread is more then a bare figure of the bodie , for it hath the effectuall presence of the bodie ioyned with it , though substantiallie it be not become the same . And though the bread be not in substance Christ , yet the faithfull receauer hath ( since to giue him effectuallie and in substance is the same ) the substance communicated to his soule as veritie as the bread enters his mouth . Pag. 62. I le graunt you that the out ward signes are signes of Christs bodie present after consecration , but I denie that the bodie is there present after the manner you define . T is not there corporallie but mysticallie , and sacramentallie , and yet so as besides the intellectuall presence , there is also a reall & exhibitiue presence in respect of donation on Gods part , and reception on mans part . Heere , besides the intellectuall presence , ( by faith ) is a reall exhibition ; and a reall reception of the bodie : the verie substance of it , is as reallie communicated to the soule and as verilie , as the bread ( deliuered by the Minister ) is receaued in the mouth : and all this is donne by meanes of the signes , exhibiting those thinges vnto vs . Is not this sucking blood out of wine , and wine out of an Iuie bush ?

To our tenet , ( which is the Catholick ) that embleme doth not agree ; for in our Sacrament there is vnder the exteriour signes , flesh and blood , according to the substance and veritie : the whole bodie , the whole humanitie of our Sauiour , the Mediatour ; he himself , with all the ornaments of his humanitie , and all the infinite perfections of his Diuinitie , is there : and , receauing the blessed Sacrament into our mouthes , wee do receaue , in it , all this . The vintners wine be not thus in his Iuie bush , that you may sucke sacke from thence .

After this , M. Waferer enters into the matter of transubstantiation , which matter was not handled in the Conference . He might haue saued himself the labour he takes , and looseth , in talking of it , had he ( as he might and should ) haue obserued ( but that he was willing to confound Questions and runne out of one into another ) that which my Lord in the beginni●● gaue the auditorie then present , to vnderstand . Confer . pag. 7. See also Featli Pag. 288 That the Conference was to be , not of Transubstantiation , but of the reall presence onlie , which by order of disputation ought to be first . and so it was agreed , and nothing said of that matter . What he brings against it , is ordinarie stuffe , and the manner of deliuering it , worse then ordinarie . The authors which he cites are Caietan & Scotus : who notwithstanding ( as is well knowne to Schollers that are able to read their books ) do maintaine and defend , and that ,

Caiet . 3. p. q 75. Scotus in 4. d. 10. & 11. The words obiected against vs out of him to proue the doctrine of transsubstantiation to be new , be these d. 11. qu. 3. where he speakes of the Lateran Councell .

Quicquid ibi ( in Concilio Lateranensi ) dicitur esse eredendum , tenendum est esse de substantia fidei : & hoc post illam declarationem factam ab Ecclesia . Et si quaeras quare voluit Ecclesia elige●e istum intellectum ita difficilem huius articuli cum verba scripturae possent saluati secundum intellectum facilem & veriorem secundum apparentiam , de hoc articulo ; Dico quod eo Spiritu expositae sunt Scripturae , quo conditae . Et ita supponendum est quod Ecclesia Catholica eo Spiritu exposuit quo tradita est nobis fides , spiritu scilicet veritatis edocta ; & ideo hunc intellectum elegit quia verus est . Non enim in potestate Ecclesiae fuit facere istud verum vel non verum , sed Dei instituentis : sed intellectum a Deo traditum Ecclesia explicauit directa in hoc vt creditur Spiritu veritatis . He that well considers these words , will easilie perceaue there is in them no occasion giuen to pretend that he denies the doctrine to be auncient , since he affirmes it to be contained in the Scripture ; & that the Church by direction of the Holy Ghost whose assistance the Catholicks beleeue , found it there . Eo Spiritu expositae sunt Scripturae &c , & , ideo hunc sensum elegit quia — . you will not I hope , accuse the Scripture of noueltie . See Saint Augustine Contra Epist. fundam . c. 4. Epist. 118. de bapt l. 2. c. 4. & 9. l. 5. c. 17. Contra Crescon . Gram. l 1. c. 33 , Scripturarum in hac re tenetur veritas cum hoc facimus quod vniuersae iam placuit Ecclesie &c. It is the Church that is to teach vs , the meaning of the Scripture ; docete . and the holy Ghost directs her in it , docebit vos .

larglie and professedlie , both the Real● presence , which was the matter of the Conference ; & 〈◊〉 transubstantiation , which matter he would faine runne into , to make a further demonstration of his ignorance and vnsufficiencie . Next he saies the churches of Asia and the Greeke churches dissented , that is , denied transubstantiation . He might aswell haue tould his Reader that wee do : they hauing as fullie declared them selues in their Profession , bookes and Councels ; And that verie Councell of Florence whence he would ( against the whole streame of authoritie ) make good his rash assertion , in the Instruction of faith giuen to the Armenians , which was made in publick session , sacro approbante concilio , that verie yeere he speakes of , 1439. doth ackowledge it , in these wordes , Ipsorum verborum virtute substantia panis in corpus Christi & substantia vini in sanguinem , conuertitur ; ita tamen vt totus Christus continetur sub specie panis , & totus sub specie vini : sub qualibet quoque parte hostiae consecratae & vini consecrati separatione facta , totus est Christus . by vertue of those verie words ( of consecration ) the substance of bread is turned into the bodie , and the substance of wine into the blood : yet so , that whole Christ is contained vnder the species of bread , and whole vnder the species of wine , and also whole Christ is vnder euery part of the consecrated hoast and consecrated wine , when there is a separation or diuision made . See Cardinall Peron , his booke against P. Mornay , pag. 812. & s●qq . and Censu . Eccles. Orient . Respons. 1. ad German . c. 13. & Responso 2. c. 4.

He saies pag. 47. and most ignorantlie , that the Churches tenet of a substantiall change vnder the species ; which change wee call transubstantiation , was a thing not knowne or taught for 1215. yeeres after Christ . which is a lie , many times confuted , by our Deuines ; Bellarmine , Peron , Allen , Gualterius , and others , yea , and by your owne too , Master Mirth , your owne men , Protestants , confesse that Damascen taught it , that Gregorie and Austine brought it into England , that it entred early into the Church . Cited in the Protest . Ap. tract . r. sect. 7. subd . 4. See also sect. 2. subd. 2. Reade the discourse of M. Brierley p. 184.

Least you should outface such as want bookes , some few of those which held the change , shall ( for their sakes ) be represented on the by . I told you that Protestants contradict your assertion ; and your frind Crak●●thorps also , ( Birkberks learned kinsman , ) whom you cite in your margine . But I come neerer , pag. 232. this your Doctors frind , Birckbeck , will admit , ( and with his aduise , ) that it was publiklie taught , in England by Lancfranc , long before the time you speake of . So will ( I come neerer yet ) Master Waferer of Alban-Hall , and with the same Doctors approbat , Who saith pag. 48. ( so soone he forgot himself ) your transubstantiation is no better then the coynage of the monk Damascen ; who liued anno 730. This I note by the way only , to shew your ignorance and temeritie in your assertions ; and how little your word is to be regarded . The point it self , I do not heare examine , because I will not leaue the matter of the Conference , as you striue to do . Non de nomine Quaestio est , sed de re ; substantiarum nempe distinctarum ordine sub iisdem accidentibus : sub quibus ante consecrationem sit natura vel substantia panis , post consecrationem verum D. N. corpus . Celebratum est Lateran ense Concilium saeculo 13. In ore duo●um vel trium testium stabit omne verbum . Matth. 18. Seculo 12. Petrus Blesensis Epist : 140. Pane & vino transubstantiatis virtute verborum coelestrum in corpus & sanguinem Christi , accidentia , quae priús ibi fuerant , fine subiecto remanent & apparent . Petrus Lombard 4. d. 11 Post consecrationem non est ibi substanitia panis vel vini ; licet species remaneant , est enim ibi species panis & vini , sicut & sapor . Vnde aliud videtur , aliud intelligitur . Seculo 11. Lanfrancus , li. de Euchar Credimus terrenas substantias mitabiliter operante supernâ potentia conuerti in essentiam Dominici corporis , reseruatis ipsarum rerum speciebus & quibusdam allis qualitatibus , ne percipientes cruda & c●uenta horrerent . Theophilactus in cap. 26 Matt. Por●ò dicens , Hoc est corpus meum , ostendit quod ipsum corpus Domini est panis qui sanctificatur in altari , & non respondens figura ; non enim dixit hoc est figura , sed , hoc est corpus meum . ineffabili enim operatione transformatur ( panis , ) etiamsi nobis panis videatur : quoniam infirmi sumus & abhorremus crudas carnes comedere , maximè hominis carnem : & ideo panis quidem apparet , sed reuera caro est . Seculo 10. Stephanus Eduensis de Sacram. Altar . c. 13. Oramus vt cibus hominum fiat cibus angelorum ; scilicet , vt oblatio panis & vini transsubstantietur in corpus & sanguinem Iesu Christi , qui est oblatio benedicta , &c. 15. Sub vtriusque speciei particulâ singulâ totus est Christus Iesus . Fulbertus Episc , Carnot . Epist , de Euchar. ad Adeodat . Cùm in omni re sint erga nos inestimabiles diuitiae Dei , adeo vt maiestate absconditâ corruptibile pro nobis corpus induerit , contumelis & passionibus se subdiderit , quo opem ferret assumpto homin ; quid indignum Deo iudicari potest qui vterum Virginis subijt si virginibus creaturis infunditur ? quae licet simplicis naturae paulò ante praeferrent imaginem , postmodum coelestis verbi sanctificatione inspiratis maiestas vera infunditur , & quae substantia panis & vini apparebat exte rius , iam corpus Christi & sanguis sit interiùs . & infra . Si Deum omnia posse credas , & hoc consequitur vt credas — creaturas ( posse ) in sui corporis substantiam transfundere . Seculo 9. Remigius Episc. Antisid . in Psa. 21. Panis & vinum à Christiana veritate dicuntur , non quod naturam panis & vini post consecrationem in se retineant , nisi quantum ad speciem & sapotem & odorem . Illi enim — panis & vini materiam in sui corporis & sanguinis natutam transferre possibile est . Paschasius Corbeiensis li. de corpore Christi c. 1. Nullus moueatur de hoc Corpore Christi & sanguine , quod in mysterio vera sit caro , & verus sit sanguis ; dum sic ille voluit qui creauit . Omnia enim quaecumque voluit fecit . Et quia voluit , licet figura panis & vini hic sit , tamen omnino nihil aliud quàm caro Christi & sanguis post consecrationem credenda sunt . Seculo 8. Damascenus li. 4. de fide Orthod c. 14. Quemadmodum naturaliter panis per cibum , & vinum & aqua per per potum , in comedentis & bibentis corpus & sanguinem immutantur , corpusque alterum fiunt atque à priore ipsius corpore diuersum ; sic propositionis panis ac vinum & aqua per Spiritus S. inuocationem & aduentum mirabili modo in Christi corpus & sanguinem vertuntur ; nec sunt duo , sed vnum Venerab . Beda Comment. in l. Boeth . de Trinit. Panis fit corpus Christi ; transit enim substantia , panis , in corpus Christi ; non forma , ( species , ) nam potius hae subsistunt — sine substantia-Sienim hic contingat quod alibi est impossibile , non est mirum : cum etiam ipsum corpus Christi ineffabili modo conceptum sit . Samonas Ga●ae Archiepisc . in Disceptat . cum Achmed . Spiritus sanctus descendit , & superuenit in ea quae sunt proposita : & igne suae diuinitatis in corpus & sanguinem Christi panem & vinum commutat , non minus quàm iccur alimentum in corpus cuiusdam hominis . Seculo 7. Eligius Episcopus Nouiom . Hom. 8. Vera est caro & verus est sanguis eius ( Christi ) quem ad manducan dum & potandum in mysterio sumimus , — in quibus manet post consecrationem similitudo panis & vini ne sit cuidam horror cruoris . Isidorus Archiep. Hispal . l. 1. de Offic. cap. 18. Placuit Spi. S. per Apostolos vt in honote tanti Sacramenti in Os Christiani ieiuni prius Dominicum corpus intraret quàm caeteri cibi : & ideo per vniuersum orbem mos iste seruatur . Panis enim quem frangimus corpus Christi est qui dicit Ego sum panis vinus qui de coelo descendi ; Vinum autem sanguis eius est . Haec autem duo ( panis & vinum ) sunt visibilia , sanctificata tamen per Spiritum S. in Sacramentum diuini corporis transeunt . Seculo 6. Gregorius Magnus referente Paulo Diac. in eius vita . Praescius conditor nostrae infirmitatis , ea potestate qua cunct a fecit ex nihilo , & corpus sibi ex carne semper Virginis operante Spiritu S. fabricauin panem & vinum aquâ mistum , manente propria specie in carnem & sanguinem suum , ad Catholicam precem ob reparationem nostram Spiritus sui sanctificatione conuertit . Remigius Archiep. Rhemen . Comm. in c. 10 prim . Corinth . Caro quam Verbum Dei patris assump sit in in vtero virginali in vnitate suae Personae , & panis qui consecratur in Ecclesia , vnum Christi corpus sunt : sicut enim illa caro Corpus Christi est , ita iste panis transit in Corpus Christi : nec sunt duo corpora , sed vnum corpus Seculo 5. Chrysostomus Patriarcha Constantinop . de Euchar in Encaen . 6. de Poen . ed. Sau. Num vides panem , num vinum ? num sicut reliqui cibi in secessum vadunt ? Absit , Ne sic cogires Quemadmodum enim si cera igni adhibita illi assimilatur , nihil substantiae remanet , nihil super fluit : sic & hic puta mysteria consumi corporis 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , substantia , Propter quod & accedentes ne puteris quod accipiatis diuinum corpus ex homine , sed exipsis Seraphim forcipe ignem , quem sc. Esaias vidit vos accipere . Cyrillus Archiep , Alexand. Epist. ad Calosyr . Influit oblatis vim vitae , conuertens ea in veritatem propriae carnis . Seculo 4. Ambrosius Archiep Mediolan . De Myst . ●it . c. 9. Forté dicas aliud video , quomodo tu mihi asseris quod Christi corpus accipiam ? — Probemus non hoc esse quod natura formauit , sed quod benedictio consecrauit ; maioremque vim esse benedictionis quam naturae , quia benedictione etiam natura ipsa mutatur . & l. 4. de Sacram. c 5. Ante verba Christi , calix est vini & aquae plenus : vbi verba Christi operata fuerint , ibi sanguis efficitur qui plebem redemit . Gregorius Nyssenus Episcopus , Orat. Catechet c 37. Verbo Dei sanctificatum panem in Dei Verbi corpus credo transmutari . Et infra . Se per carnem inserit omnibus credentibus , commistus & contemperatus corporibus credentium , quibus substantia est ex pane & vino , vt vnione cum eo quod est immortale sit etiam homo particeps incorruptionis . Haec autem dat virtute benedictionis , in illud ( quod est immortale , nempe corpus suum ) transelementatae eorum quae apparent natura . Cyrillus Episcopus Hierosol . Cathechesi 4. Aquam olim in vinum conuertit in Cana Galileae , quod ( vinum ) cum quandam habeat cum sanguine propinquitatem facilè in illum transmutatur . & eum patum dignum existimabimus cui credamus quod vinum in sanguinem transmutet ? & infra . Hoc sciens & pro certissimo habens , panem hunc qui videtur à nobis non esse panem , etiamsi gustus panem esse sentiat ; sed esse corpus Christi : & vinum quod à nobis conspicitur , tametsi sensui gustus vinum esse videatur non tamen vinum , sed sanguinem esse Christi . Seculo 3. Sermo de Coena apud Cyprianum . Panis iste quem Dominus Discipulis porrigebat , non essigie sed natura mutatus omni potentia Verbi factus est caro . & sicut in Persona Verbi humanitas videbatur & latebat diuinitas : ita Sacramento visibili ineffabiliter diuina se infudit essentia . Origenes l. 8. contra Celsum . Nos qui rerum omnium conditori placere studemus , cum precibus & gratiarum pro beneficiis acceptis actione oblatos panes edimus corpus iam per precationem factos sanctum quoddam & sanctificans . Et hom. 5. in diuers . Quando sanctum ●●bum , illudque incorruptum accipis epulum , quando pane vitae & poculo frueris , manducas & bibis corpus & sanguinem Domini , tunc Dominus sub tectum tuum ingreditur . tu ergo humilian● temetipsum , imitare hunc Centurionem & dicito Domine non sum dignus vt intres sub tectum meum . Vbi enim indigné ingreditur , ibi ad iudicium ingreditut recipientis . Seculo 2. Tertullianus l. 4. contra Marc. c. 40. Acceptum panem & distributum discipulis corpus suum illum fecit , & l. de resurrect . carn. . Caro corpore & sanguine Christi vescitur . Irenaeus Episcopus l. 4. aduers Haeres . c. 34 Qui est à terra panis percipiens vocationem Dei , iam non communis panis est , sed Eucharistia , ex duabus rebus constans , terrena & coelesti . Seculo 1. Paulus Apostolus , pri. Corinth . 11. Ego enim accepi à Domino , quod & tradidi vobis , quoniam Dominus Iesus in qua nocte trade batur , accepit panem , & gratias agens fregit , & dixit , Accipite & manducate , HOC EST CORPVS MEVM quod pro vobis tradetur . — Qui manducat & bibit indignè , iudicium sibi manducat & bibit , non dijudicans CORPVS Domini . Retinuit Antiquitas 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Contentorum ordo sub aspectabili panis forma . Sub illa fuit , ante consecrationem , vera panis natura : accepit panem . cui successit sub eadem forma corpus Domini verum ; hoc est corpus quod pro vobis . A deo que sub illa specie vel aspectabili forma , facta mutatio . Aduersariorum Confessio . Beza , de Coena con . Westphal . Hoc quidem saepe diximus , quod nunc quoque repetam , retineri reipsa non posse 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 in his Christi verbis Hoc est corpus meum , quin transsubstantiatio Papistica statuatur . Morton . Institut. Sacram. l. 2 ca. 1 pag. 72. What necessitie there is to enquire into the true sense of these words ( This is my body ) will best appeare in the after-examination of the diuers consequences of your owne sense , to wit , your doctrine of transsubstantiation , corporall and materiall presence , propitiatotie sacrifice , and proper adoration : all which are dependants vpon your Romish exposition of the former words of Christ . The issue will be this , that if the words be certainlie true in a proper and litterall sence , then wee are to yeild to you the whole cause . So he .

S. E. had said that Berengarius broched your (a) (a) About the yeere of our Lord 1060. the denying of transubstantiation began to be accounted Heresie ; and in that number was first one Berengarius who liued about ●● . 1060. Fox pag. 1121 Brier . heresie , and this you Master Waferer , take heynouslie ; telling vs that you haue it from the Apostles . If you had said that one of them ( Iudas ) was of your opinion , you might peraduenture haue found Scripture for it , in the 6. of S. Iohn . where after our Sauiour had said the bread which he meant to giue was his flesh , that flesh which he would giue also for the life or redemption of the world , the Iewes began to dispute of the modus , how that could be , quomodo potest hic nobis carnem suam dare ad manducandum , how can this man giue vs his flesh to eate ? whervpon our Sauiour told them that his flesh was meat indeed , and that his blood was drink indeed , and that they were to eate this flesh and to drink this blood . heereat some of the Disciples were scandalized , and said , as you do , durus est hic sermo , this is a hard speach , they had not the patience to heare of it ; they beleeued not ; and amongst those was the man , I spake of . Sunt quidam ex vobis qui non credunt , sciebat enim ab initio Iesus qui essent non credentes , & quis traditurus esset eum . there are some of you that beleeue not . For Iesus knew from the beginning who they were that beleeued not , and who should betray him . you know the man ; he was of your opinion . yet Berengarius being the first that taught it openlie as a doctrine , he may well be said to haue broached it first . and , if insteed of the word opinion , or heresie , you put in , Sacrament ; that it runne thus , Berengarius broached your Sacrament ; it may be no metaphor , for it is wine that is in your communion cup , & nothing els but wine .

Heere is an end of your second Section . I will leaue you now alone , in your recreation roome , and go speake with others , at the dore , you shall heare of me againe by that time you haue stepped into your third Section ; where if you can compose your self thereunto , we will be more seriouse . It is not my labour ( it was your Mothers , ) to breed Mirth .

Nobis non licet esse tam disertis Qui Musas colimus seueriores .

Master Mirth is a merrie man ; he can laugh out anothers eies : and his owne , it seemes , ( is not laughing the cause ? ) be not fullie open , he hath studied so long in the Vniuersitie , and talkt there so much of homo , that he hath forgotten part of his owne mother tounge . I haue beene disputing with him about a peece of it , and would haue left him sooner being wearie in the verie beginning , ( dat sine mente sonum , ) to heere so manie words with so litle sence , but that he would haue taken occasion thereby to make the presse labour againe in the edition of an other as impertinent a discourse ; not omitting to appoint his title-pages to stand , and proclaime me coward at euerie corner-poste in London where the players put vp their bills , vnles I come the second time to the Comedie must I call it , or , Mirth's Tragedie .

Our dispute was about the signification of this English word man , whether it doth onlie signifie the substance , the quid as they speake in schooles , animal rationale ; or , whether it doth import , or bring into the vnderstanding of him that heares or reades it and knowes our language , and in that kind signifie , more then animal rationale . It is an easie Question , ( and scarce a Question but that he will make it so ) which euerie English man or woman , or child , may determine . The child hath not yet learned to speake , and the old woman dotes , that knowes not the difference betwixt these two names , man , and , woman . and should one write the storie of his Petegrie , changing these names & expressing the female by the word man , the male by woman , schollers would think that he were madde . If you looke into the language , you shall finde the like in other wordes . Those who gaue to thinges their English names , came not to the students in Metaphysick to haue them first abstracted . Men were , and had societie , and could speake , before they met to build Schooles . The Scottish , and Welsh , and Irish , were not inuented in Vniuersities ; and they which made bricks at Babell were not all Masters of Art .

I neuer hard that a soule , in it self had any sex , or that animal rationale metaphysicallie abstracted from all accidentes , was an hermaphrodite , though those words haue a good sence in them , forma dat nomen & esse , and ratio quam significat nomen est definitio . Before such absurdities were inferd out of these words , it would be demaunded what is this definitio ? What this forme ? manie formalities haue names which haue not proper definitions ; rationale , sensible , corporeum , and other differences , haue none : and the prima genera ( substantia , quantitas , ad aliquid , and the rest ) non habent genera ; therefore no proper definition . Neither are the substantiall differences of things , so knowne , as that , without taking into our vnderstanding their properties which are of another kind or predicament , we can vnfold or conceaue them . Wherof he may presentlie haue proofe sufficient , that would but endeuour himself , or put another , ( you Master Waferer , ) to define the seuerall species of liuing thinges , beastes , trees , flowers , &c.

When naturall things were by man first named in vulgar language , their definitions or notions ( which they who named them conceaued ) were proportionable to their nature , which did occurre to the sence inuested with certaine proprieties ; & neuer otherwise ; in which case , the Philosopher himself saies , it is hard to make (a) (a) Quaecunque apparent aduenientia in diuersis specie , vt circulus in aere , ligno , lapide , haec quidem manifesta esse videntur , quoniam nihil substantiae circuli aes , neque lapis est , propterea quod ab eis separetur . Quae verò non videntur separari , nihil quidem prohibet similiter his se habere , quemadmodum si circuli omnes viderentur aenei . Nihil enim minus aes esset ipsius formae . Difficile tamen est hoc mente auferre . Vt puta forma hominis semper in carnibus & ossibus & talibus partibus apparet Vtrum igitur sint etiam hae● , partes formae & rationis ? an non , sed materia ? Verùm quoniam non adueniunt etiam in al●us , non possumus separare . Cum autem hoc videatur quidem contingere , quando verò , non est manifestum ▪ Aristot . 7. Metaphys●t 37 Formae naturales licet possint intelligi absque materia , non tamen facile , quoniam esse non possunt sine determinatis ac propriis materiis quarum sunt : vt homo , licet possit abstrahi ab his carnibus & his ossibus , non tamen à carnibus & ossibus simpliciter . Commentator , ibidem . Formae naturales difficilè abstrahuntur intellectu a suis materiis , impossibile est enim intelligere hominem sine carne & ossibus . Ibidem . Non potest ( intellectus ) abstrahere eas in imaginatione à materia . Ibidem . abstraction ▪ neither was a Metaphysicall one , necessarie to the first imposition of the word or name , since the thing conceaued with it's properties , is sufficientlie distinguished from other thinges , and capable enough of a different name or signe . & in this manner , the Latine word Homo , ( to speake of that language too , for your sake , ) needed to suppose no other notion then that which might be gathered by obseruing a mans motion , discourse , figure , contenaunce , and other accidents found in all men that came to notice and not in any other thing but in man . Then further , as men came to the knowledge of the Metaphysick , and therbey were able to abstract a substance from sensible properties , and figure and quantitie , the name was applied to signifie that abstracted thing also , yet so , that it left not , to be withall , that it was before . Whence it comes to passe , that the same word , signifiing , according to diuers abstractions , more , or lesse , may be sayd to be , or not to be , entirelie verified in the same thing .

Aristotle in his first de Anima puts a difference betwixt the Logician & the naturall Philosopher , in their manner of defining , Differenter definiet naturalis & Dialecticus &c. where he saith , the Logician defines by the forme , the Philosopher by the matter ; and brings an example of each . In the sixt of his Metaphysicks he shewes how the Naturall Philosophers way of defining is Differenter definiet Naturalis & Dialecticus vnumquodque ipsorum . Vt ira quid est . Hic enim , appetitum recontristationis , aut aliquid huiusmodi ; Ille autem , feruorem sanguinis , aut calidi circa cor Horum autem , Hic quidem assignat materiam , Ille veró formam & rationem . Ratio enim haec ipsius rei . Necesse autem esse hanc in materia huiusmodi , si erit . Sicut domus haec quidem ratio &c. Arist. l 1. de Animat . 16. Qui accipit materiam in definitione , & dimittit formam , diminuté accipit : qui autem accipit formam & dimittit materiam , existimatur quod dimittit aliquid non necessarium , sed non est ita : quoniam forma debet accipit in definitionibus secundum dispositiones in quibus existit . Commentator , Ibidem . diuers from that of the Mathematician , or the Metaphysick . The Naturarall Philosopher doth ( in his definition ) abstract from indiuiduall matter ( which he calls vltima , 7. Me● . ● . 35 . others signata , ) for his definition must be constant and vniuersall ; otherwise it would not serue his turne to make a demonstration : but he doth not abstract from sensible matter , or that which is affected with sensib●e qualities , as the other two doe . (a) (a) Arist. l 6 Metaphys . t 2. vide Commentat . Ibidem . Eorum quae definiuntur , & ipsorum quid est , quaedam quidem ita sunt vt ipsum simum , quaedam vt ipsum concauum . Differunt autem haec quoniam simum quidem vna acceptum est eum materia , est enim simum conca● us nasus , concauitas vero absque materia sensibili . Si cuucta igitur naturalia ita vt simum dicuntur , vt nasus , oculus , facies , caro , os , omnino animal , folium , radix , In definitione enim carnis & ossis oportet quod ponatur calidum & frigidum aliquo modo cōtemperatū ; & similiter in aliis . S. Tho. ibidem . Aristot . cortex , omnino planta , ( nullius enim eorum ratio absque motu , sed semper habet materiam ; ) manifestum est quomodo in naturalibus oportet ipsum quid est quaerere , & definire ; & cur etiam de quadam anima speculari Naturalis est , quaecunque non sine materia . Accordinglie , he doth elswhere define a (b) (b) li. 2. de Anima . t. 4. & 5. Actus primus corporis organici &c. soule . and as for singulars , he saith they cannot be defined . (c) (c) Aristot . l. 7. Metaphys . t. 35. Totius verò , vt circuli huius , & singularium alicuius sensibilis aut intelligibilis ( dico autem intelligibiles quidem , vt Mathematicos , sensibiles verò vt aeneos & ligneos ) horum inquam non est definitio , sed intellectione aut sensu cognoscuntur . cum verò abeant ab actu , non est manifestum vtrum sint al. -quando an non sint : tamen semper dicuntur & cognoscuntur vniuersali ratione ; Materia vero per seipsam incognita . Materia verò quaedam sensibilis , quaedam intelligibilis : sensibilis quidem vt aes & lignum , & quaecunque mobilis materia : intelligibilis verò quae in sensibilibus existit non prout sensibilia , vt puta ipsa mathematica . The metaphysick doth abstract from all these three matters , signata , sensibili , intelligibili : he can abstract a substance from quantitie , sensible qualities , and indiuiduation , and accordinglie define it ; without expressing any of them in the intellectuall ; or adding them , in the vocall definition .

Thus far in common . Now to come to our particular cause . The Science which contemplates a substantiall bodie and according to whose abstraction it was named , is Naturall Philosophie , which Science , ( according to the knowne doctrine of the schooles , wherunto the best Peripateticks , and the greatest schoolmen also , do subscibe , ) doth not abstract from sensible matter ; but defines by it . It abstractes à materia signata ; and according to this abstraction & way of defining , doth impose names to things naturall ; ratio quam significat nomen est definitio . Wherfore this Latine word corpus , and this English word , bodie , ( it is the like of all others imposed according to this abstraction , ) in the iudgment of the Naturall Philosopher do not abstract from such matter , but do signifie a thing sensible . And if the thing wherein they be verified be not such , he doth not esteeme the speach to be entirelie proper ; because the words import or bring into his understanding such a thing , howbeit , the speaker is not tied to this notion , for he may vse another kind of abstraction ; & according Materia est duplex , scilicet communis , & signata vel indiuidualis . Communis quidem , vt caro & os , indiuidualis autem vt hae carnes & haec ossa . Intellectus igitur abstrahit speciem rei naturalis à materia sensibili indiuiduali , non autem à materia sensibili communi . Sicut speciem hominis abstrahit ab his carnibus & his ossibus , quae non sunt de ratione speciei sed partes indiuidui vt dicitur in septimo Metaphysicorum ( t. 34. & 35. ) & ideo sine eis considerari potest . Sed species hominis non potest abstrahi per intellectum à carnibus & ossibus . Species autem mathematicae possunt abstrahi per intellectum à materia sensibili , non solum indiuidual . sed etiam communi : non tamen à materia intelligibili communi sed solum indiuiduali . Materia enim sensibilis dicitur materia corporalis , secundum quod subiacet qualitatibus sensibilibus , scilicet calido & frigido , duro & molli , & huiusmodi , Materia verò intelligibilis dicitur substantia secundum quod subiacet quantitati . Manifestum est autem quod quantitas priùs inest substantiae , quàm qualitates sensibiles . Vnde quantitates ( vt numeri & dimensiones , & figurae quae sunt terminationes quantitatum ) possunt considerari absque qualitatibus sensibilibus ; quod est eas abstrahere à materia sensibili : non tamen possunt considerari sine intellectu substantiae quantitati subiectae , quod esset eas abstrahi à materia intelligibili communi . Possunt tamen considerari sine hac vel illa substantia , quod est eas abstrahi à materia intelligibili indiuiduali . Quaedam verò sunt quae possunt abstrahi etiam à materia intelligibili communi , sicut ens , vnum , potentia , & acrus , & alia huiusmodi ; quae etiam esse possunt absque omni materia , vt patet in substantiis immaterialibus . S. Tho. 1. p. qu. 85. a. 1. ad 2. to that may peake his mind .

Heereby appeares the truth of those passages against which M. Waferer most ignorantlie did cauill : as that of S. E. pag. 51. That which presents it self to the eie to be seene is not a pure essence or quidditie as they speake in Schooles , but it is a thing sensible , and to be perceaued by this organ and facultie , it is an extended coloured thing , which wee do see and conceaue ; agreeing that such or such a word shall be in speach a signe of it , and the rest , which you may reade in him . And of Cardinall Allen pag. 57. A thing being put out of it's naturall manner of being , and out of 〈◊〉 naturall conditions and sensible proprieties agreeing to such a name , and endowed with strange accidentes , although it keepe it's substance , yet because it wants the conditions of subsisting which together with the substance come to the sence and conceit of man , and are comprehended vnder the proper name , it almost leeseth it's proper name ; or if it keepe it , yet not so properlie as if it kept it's proper manner of being . And of my Lord , pag. 39. I admit that in these wordes , This is my bodie , there is a figure , not a meere or naked one void of the truth & proprietie , but a figure ioyned with the truth and with proprietie : because allthough they signifie that the Eucharist is the bodie of Christ trulie , reallie , and properlie according to the thing ; yet they do not affirme it to be the bodie of Christ after such a corporall and naturall manner as other things are the things that they are said to be , but after a spirituall , inuisible , mysticall , sacramentall manner , & such a one as doth figuratiuelie shew and represent the naturall manner of being of the same bodie in another place .

In which wordes there be two things more specified , the one is that the Sacramentall manner of existence , is figuratiuelie the naturall manner of existence ; which also came to passe by the Institution , as appeares more fullie in the Gospell , do this in remembrance of me . The other , that the wordes This is my bodie , do likwise insinuate the spirituall manner of existence which the bodie hath heere in the sacrament ; for , they do not signifie the bodie in what manner soeuer , or abstracted ( I speake of the proposition , not of corpus , which is a simple tearme ) but they signifie determinatlie our Sauiours bodie with this kind of existence which it hath in the species or forme of bread .

Out of the former distinction of a double abstraction ; if you should heare an vnderstanding man denie , that there is any kind of improprietie in the word corpus , you were to know that he takes it according to the Metaphysicall abstraction ; in which sen●● the terme is entirlie proper , as before was obserued , not according to the Physicall . So easilie you may reconcile him , with the others cited by S. E. and thereby see how little it doth import the maine , whether in the word , there be , or be not , admitted a kind of improprietie . In the word , I say , or terme ; for it is one thing to speake of that single word , and an other thing to speake of the proposition ; whose sence I haue vnfolded , as far as occasion hath beene offered ; and shall doe further as I shall finde cause . I must now to M. Waferer againe , who is gotten to his next section and there expects me .

The third argument was about the killing letter ; out of Origen , who by the killing letter meant ( as it was Answered ) not the Catholike sence , but the Capharnaiticall . Apologist :

S. E. makes a noise with the Capharnaiticall straine , as if it differed from their carnall eating : but I referre the Reader for satisfaction to D. Featlie his Conference , which vnanswerablie conuinceth their shifts of weaknes and obstinacie .

Censure .

Vide Bellar. li. 2. c. 8. §. tertius l●eus . Sunt certi denique fines quos vltra citraque nequit consistere rectum . Had you setled a litle your countenance whilst you were alone , it would haue mended the matter something , for much laughter doth not well consist with Magisteriall grauitie ; but to put on a brasen face , ●●d auouch to the Reader what by reading without further studie or instruction , he knowes to be otherwise , is an extreame , more absurde . What kind of eating the Capharnaiets did meane , my Lord told your Doctor out of the Fathers , and , S. E. repeated the it againe . They thought S. Augustine saith , that our Sauiour would cut of some peeces from his bodie and giue them to eate . Carnaliter putarunt quod praecisurus esset Dominus particulas quasdam de corpore suo & daturus illis . wherunto Chamier your great Panstratist , from whom now & then you borrow matter for your Pamphlet , subscribes in these wordes . Et hoc quidem verum , quod ipsa lectio indicat ; and , Quis non videt ( lo what Andabatarians he makes you two , Doctor Featlie and your self , Cham. lib. 11. c. 19. n. 30. ) in hanc formam argumentatos esse Capharnaitas ? Omne corpus carnaliter manducandum , laniandum est , at secundum Christum eius corpus carnaliter est manducandum Ergo idem laniandum est . This is true , as one may see by the verie reading of the place . Who sees not that the Caphernaits argued in this manner ? Euerie bodie that is carnallie to be eaten is to be cut or torne in peices ; but according to Christ , his bodie is carnallie to be eaten ; therefore it is to be cut or torne in peices . So they , as your Master Chamier tells you ▪ wheras we beleeue , that the bodie of our Blessed Sauiour is receaued whole and entire vnder the forme of bread , as S. E. told you in his Notes , and my Lord in the Conference defended against your Doctor . Is there no difference M. Waferer betwixt these two ? betwixt eating of flesh in it's proper shape and receauing it in the forme of bread ; betwixt receauing a bodie whole , entire ; and eating but a peece ? Belike there is no difference with you betwixt all , and some ; betwixt a part , and the whole ; betwixt a liue , and a dead thing ; betwixt a corporall , and a spirituall manner of existence ; betwixt the exteriour formes of flesh , and bread , who would haue thought a man of your name & nature , could be so melancholie , as not to discerne this ?

But you are not your self disposed , & therefore send him that will haue satisfaction to Doctor Featlies Conference . Suppose he go .

Intererit multum — Is there more then was when S.E. read it ouer ? Nothing at all . But S. E. hath not Answered , why so good M. Waferer ? Because it vnanswerablie conuinces those shifts ( that is , S. Augustins exposition , ) of weaknes . Is that all ? ( S. Augustine might be weake to grapple with a Lion ; ) and obstinacie .

Away with this melancholie M. Waferer ▪ what ? may Featlie dissent from your Oracle Chamier , and from the Scripture interpreted by his Spirit , and from Sainct Austin , and other auncient Fathers , and from the Catholick and vniuersall Church , with commendations ; and S. Austin not dissent from Featlie without obstinacie ? What Vertigo brings this about ? may nothing be said for him , nothing answered in his behalf ? No ▪ for the Doctors Argument doth Vnanswereablie conuince .

And who dares looke such an Argument in the face ? S.E. belike ran away , let 's see that first : for if he durst abide , greater Scholers neede not feare . The Doctors obiection I will put downe all , as he relates and hath amplified it himself ; and will compare it with the Answer that was made .

Featlie . Origen saith Hom. 7. in Leuiticum . If you follow the letter in these words , vnles you eate the flesh &c. that letter killeth .

Answer . He speakes of the litterall sence wherein the Capharnaites vnderstood those wordes ; not of that wherein the Church doth vnderstand them . This answer you may read more at large in the Relation , pag. 63.

Featlie . what is litera Capharnaitica , the litterall sence wherein the Capharnaites vnderstood the words ?

Answer . They thought , as S. Augustine saith , that our Sauiour would cut of some peeces from his bodie and giue them to eate ; quod precisurus esset particulus quasdam de corpore suo ; this being the common , obuious , carnall way , of vnderstanding such a speach . They neuer thought of receauing a mans bodie whole , vnder the forme of bread : which is the sence , left vnto the Church by the Apostles ; and confirmed by the Hole Ghost the Spirit of Truth . The words be not meant of dead , naked , flesh : they containe Spirit and life . Pieces of flesh , not vnited to the Diuine Person , such as they thought he would haue them take , and carnall eating of such pieces in their proper shape and forme , profites nothing to saluation ; the thing were horrible in it self . It is the Spirit , the Diuinitie , giues a quickning vertue to that which is vnited to the word , Cyr. Al. Anath . 11 and this same word doth teach another sence which is the verie life of that letter ; and doth also ( in it's kind ) giue life to the receauer : Spiritus est qui viuificat Caro non prodest quicquam ; verba quae ego locutus sum vobis Spiritus & vita sunt . Let Saint Augustine speake againe , Non crediderunt aliquid magnum dicentem , & verbis illis aliquam gratiam cooperientem , sed pro● voluerunt ita intellexerunt , & more hominum , quia poterat Iesus aut hoc disponebat Iesus , carnem qua indutum erat verbum , veluti concisam distribuere credentibus in se , Durus est inquiunt hic sermo . which imagination of cutting in peeces , and consuming it , our Sauiour , as he saies , refutes in the next words , Si ergo videritis filium hominis &c. Illi putabant , saies he , erogaturum corpus suum , ( concisum vt suprà , ) ille autem dixit se ascensurum in coelum , VTIQVEINTEGRVM . Where he doth oppose integritie to chopping or cutting into peeces . He goes on . Certe vel tunc videbitis quia non EO MODO quo putatis erogabit corpus suum . certe vel tunc intelligetis quia gratia eius non CONSVMETVR morsibus . And againe afterwards in the same place . Magister bone , quomodo caro non prodest quicquam , cum tu dixeris nisi quis manducauerit carnem meam , & biberit sanguinem meum non habebit in se vitam &c. Non prodest quic quam , sed quomodo illi intellexerunt : carnem quippe sic intellexerunt quomodo in cadauere dilaniatur , aut in macello venditur , S. Augu. tract 27. in Ioan. non quomodo spiritu vegetatur . They beleeued him not , affirming a great matter and couering a grace vnder those words : but as they listed so they vnderstood , and as men vse to do , because Iesus could or disposed it so , that he would distribute vnto those who beleeued in him the flesh which the word had put on , cut in peices as it were . This say they is a hard saying . Ibidem . They thought he would giue them his bodie , ( cut in peices ) he said he would ascend into heauen , intire verilie , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 bona gratia . de vocabuli suppositione vide Theologos . Vide Turrian . de Euch. tr. 2. c. 13 & 19. not cut in peices . Surelie then at least you shall see that he will not giue his bodie eo modo quo putatis in that manner you imagine ▪ then at least you will vnderstand that his grace will not by bitts be consumed . Good Master , how doth the flesh profit nothing , when as thy self hast said Vnles a man eate my flesh and drink my blood he shall not haue life in him , &c. It profiteth nothing , but as they vnderstood ; for they imagined it , as it is torne in peices in the carkasse , or sould in the butchers shop : S. Aug. Ibidem . not as it is quickned with the spirit .

Featlie . For ought appeares by Scri●ture or any auncient record , the Capernites errour was in this that they construed Christs words groslie and carnallie as you do ▪ which you and thay should haue taken spirituallie : my wordes are Spirit and life .

Answer . Seeing our Sauiour ( I repeate my Lords words ) saith his flesh is trulie meate , and that his words are trulie life , they are to be vnderstood so that they be expounded both properlie and also spirituallie or mysticallie ▪ which thing we rightlie doe when wee say they are to be expounded properlie according to the substance of the thing eaten , because that substance which in the Eucharist we eate is the verie substance of the bodie of Christ : and also spirituallie according to the manner , because wee do not eate cutting and mangling it ( as the Capharnaites did conceaue ) but without hurting it at all , no otherwise then if it were a meete Spirit . Thus farre my Lord ▪ who did also declare out of S. Augustine ( whose antiquitie I suppose Featlie will not call into question ) & out of another more auncient then he , what kind of eating the Capharnaites did vnderstand . Quidam quia non credebant , nec poterant intelligere abierunt retrò , Serm. de Coe . Cypr. quia horrendum eis & ncfarium videbatur vesci carne humana , existimantes hoc eo modo dici , vt carnem eius vel elixam vel assam , sectamque membratim edere docerentur , cum illius personae caro SI IN FRVSTA PARTIRETVR , non omni humano generi posset sufficere ; qua semel consumpta VIDERETVR INTERIISSE ( mark this by the way ) RELIGIO , cui nequaquam vlterius VICTIMA superesset . Sed in cogitationibus huiusmodi caro & sanguis non prodest quicquam , quia ( sicut Magister exposuit ) verba haec spiritus & vita sunt , nec carnalis sensus ad intellectum tantae profunditatis penetrat nisi fides accedat . you heard S. Augustine before , Putauerunt quod precisurus esset Dominus particulas de corpore suo . Carnem veluti concisam distribuere quomodo in cadauere dilaniatur aut in macello venditur non quomodo spiritu vegetatur . Some , because they did not beleeue nor could vnderstand , went back , for that it seemed to them wicked and horrible to eate mans flesh , thinking it was meant they should eate it roasted or boiled , and chopt in peices ; whereas the flesh of that person ( Christ ) were it diuided into portions or bitts would not serue all mankind : and being once consumed , Religion would seeme to haue perished withall ; no victime or sacrifice then remaining . But in such thoughts as these , flesh and blood profiteth nothing for ( as our Master himself hath expounded ) these words are spirit and life ; and vnles faith comes in , the carnall sence penetrateth not vnto the vnderstanding of so great a depth . Breiflie ; they meant the common , carnall way , of eating flesh , in it's owne forme and shape , peece after , peece , whereby the thing eaten by degrees is consumed . Of which kind of eating our Sauiours words were not indeed to be vnderstood , for his bodie was not to be cut in peeces and to be consumed ; nor in it's proper shape to be deuoured , but to be receaued in another shape , and still to remaine whole , entire .

Featlie . There is no such thing ( as that which in this answer is attributed to the Capharnaites ) implied in the litterall meaning of these words ( vnles you eate my flesh ) nor can be gathered from any circumstance of the text .

Answer . The Question is not whether that be the true sence of the letter ; wee know it is not : but whether the Capharnaites did vnderstand or conceaue it so . And that they did , it hath beene prooued , first by the testimonie of S. Augustine ; and he not alone neither . Secondlie by the confession of your owne Chamier out of whose quiuer you take the chiefest of your bolts ; who thinks them blinde that by reading the place perceaue it not . Thirdlie our Sauiour himselfe correcting them , doth insinuate what they meant , by telling them , caro , the carnall meaning of his words , non prodest quicquam , doth nothing auaile , there is a higher meaning which the Spirit , the inte●●our man , and , by faith onlie , can perceaue , in them . Spiritus est , qui viuificat , flesh apart and separate from the Word , who for vs was made flesh , giues not spirituall or eternall life . You mistake in thinking he meanes to let it be consumed with eating , or cut in peeces ; he will keepe it still , & in the sight of men appeare againe & ascend , immortall , impassible , entire . Si ergo videritis filium hominis ascendentem ( vtique integrum saith S. Augustin ) you will then see that he vnderstands and can effecte more then you are able to conceaue ; and therefore merited to be beleeued in this . and , that he meant not to haue his flesh consumed , cut in peeces , and eaten that way which you imagine . Fourthlie , they ( the Capharnaits , ) meant that eating which the word eate doth first signifie & which at the hearing of it men commonlie do conceaue , ( see aboue , pag. 2 ▪ 3 ) not reflecting vpon that peculiar notion which our Sauiour tooke it in , which notion by Philosophers had neuer beene thought vpon .

Featlie . A man might eate flesh according to the rigour of the letter , though he neither buy it in the market nor cut it .

Answer . For buying , there is no difficultie ▪ but I pray you Master Featlie , was it euer heard that one man did with his mouth eate an others bodie , in its owne shape and forme , without cutting or tearing ? did the Anthropophagi swallow men whole ? their mouthes then were great ▪ greater than the Capharnaites , who were as other men : and therefore thought not of that way , but of the common . Neither did they think of eating a mans bodie entire in the forme of bread : that eating of mans flesh neither the Philosophers nor those who gaue the name ( anthropophagie ) to man eating nor those Iewes ( the Capharnaits ) euer had seene , or could haue inuented : it was the Eternall wisdome who did ( not reproue , but ) ordaine it , as appeares more distinctlie in the Institution of the B. Sacrament which we speake of . This thing in my hand in the exteriour forme of bread is my bodie , the verie same that shall be deliuered scourged , nailed on a crosse , wounded , for you ; take , and eate , it .

Featlie . The horrour of the sinne of anthropophagie or eating mans flesh , is not in buying mans flesh nor in cutting it : but in eating it with the mouth and chamming it with the teeth . If wee should do so in the Sacrament wee should follow the killing letter Origen speaketh of , and runne vpon the point of Saint Cyrills sharp reproof , doest thou pronounce the Sacrament to be man eating : and doest thou irreligiouslie vrge the minds of the faithfull to grosse and carnall imaginations ?

Answer . Grosse and carnall eating , eating peece by peece , eating by the mouth a mans bodie in it's proper forme , that horrible anthropophagie , we detest . What and how , wee eate , according to our Sauiours Institution , you haue beene told ouer and ouer ; and in the former Argument this matter of anthropophagie is discussed . Suprà , pag. 67. Reade the Notes againe : they stand good . Neither is any new thing heere obiected , but onlie wee are told ( and it is forsooth , a great mysterie ) that the sinne of Anthropophagie or eating mans flesh , is not in buying , nor in cutting it that is to say , to buy or cut , is not to eate . Sure , a learned obseruation .

Featlie . I oppose against your Interpretation S. Chrysostome , who saith . To take Scripture according to the letter , is to take it according to the sound of the words . To which Doctor Smith replyed , when I see the words of Chrysostome I will answer them ▪ you shall when you please quoth Master Featlie .

Answer . Neither is heere any thing new . what this word eate , and eating mans flesh , See pag. 301. & seqq . do sound in the eares of men neuer instructed in the Christian schoole , who knows not ? But why did not Doctor Featlie , if he thought the words worth the reading , cite the place ? could he not find it out in all the time betwixt the Conference and the printing of Relation , which were neere twentie yeeres .

Featlie . Now I appeale to the Eare of all that are heare present , whether these wordes , nisi manducaueritis carnem , sound after Doctor Smiths Caperniticall straine . I heare nothing but the eating of the flesh , which you do as properlie as the Capernites could conceaue , with the mouth and teeth .

Answer . And I apeale to the Iudgment of all that reade this Censure , or the Relation of S. E. ( which hath the same in substance , all , ) whether this vnanswerable Argument be not answered ; And whether S. Augustine ( whose exposition it was that by this vnanswerable Argument was impugned ) be not freed from that vnworthie imputation wherewith the Pedant chargeth the maintainer , of weaknes & obstinacie .

In the margine Featlie cites the Confession of Berengarius : & S. E. in his margine ( it being a quarrell onlie on the by ) cites the place where he may find my Lords Answer : in his booke , against a prating Minister of Raschall who ( take his owne wordes , for I can not imitate his elegancie ) challenged all English Iesuites , and Iesuited Papistes , in the world , tagge and ragge , to answer his ( confused , sillie ) bookes , or anie piece , or parcel of ●hem . which bookes ( since you seeme not to know so much M. Waferer I now tell you ) were answered . his Babel was surprised , Bell confounded . A further Answer to that marginall citation then a marginall citation , S. E. did not esteeme necessarie ; especiallie considering that the said Confession was not obiected in the Conference . Neither could it beseeme so great a Champion as you proclaime your Doctour , to stricke when he was out of the feild ▪ and to your owne disaduantage you sollicite a melius inquirendum . Featle pag. 296. margine .

For , casting my eie vpon it , I finde that your Doctor deales not , in it , fairelie . He refers the words tractari , frangi , dentibus atteri , to Corpus nakedlie , putting it thus , Credo corpus D. N. I. C. sensualiter & in veritate manibus sacerdotum tractari , frangi & fidelium dentibus atteri ; whereas Berengarius in his Confession doth not so ▪ the Confession ( which is recited heere in this margine ) Ego Berengarius — consentio Sanctae Romanae & Apostolicae Sedi ; & orae , & corde profite or de Sacramentis Dominicae mense eandem fidem me tenere quam D. & Ven. Papa Nicolaus , & haec sancta Synodus authoritate Euangelica & Apostolica tenendam tradidit , mihiquo firmauit : scilicet panem & vinum quae in altari ponuntur , post consecrationem non solum Sacramentum sed etiam verum corpus & sanguinem D. N. Iesu Christi esse , & sensualiter non solum sacramento sed in veritate manibus sacerdotum tractari , frangi & fidelium dentibus atteri , iurans per sanctam & homousion Trinitatem , & per haec sancta Christi Euangelia . De Consecr. distin. 2. c. 42. hath whithin it 's owne termes an explication , if wee looke well vpon it . which explication that you may see the better , I will first take the sense of the Confession into partes ; and then looke vpon the connexion or coherence of the wordes . which donne , the Reader may reflect againe vpon it as it is in it self , altogether .

The first part of the sense is this , Profiteor panem & vinum post consecrationem , non solùm Sacramentum sed etiam verum corpus & sanguinem D.N.I.C. esse . I professe that the bread and wine , be , after consecration , not a sacrament only but also the true bodie and blood of our Lord Iesus Christ . Heere is ( I do not say all the wordes , but one ) part of the sence . importing that the consecrated bread & wine be a Sacrament ; & not onlie a Sacrament , but also the true bodie and bloud of our Lord Iesus Christ . so that , vnder the name of consecrated bread ( it is the like of consecrated wyne ) Berengarius in this Confession comprehendeth two thinges ; the visible Sacrament , ( by which he meanes the species : ) and the bodie which is inuisible . Non solùm Sacramentum , sed etiam corpus . you know the force of the particles , and can resolue the proposition ( I suppose ) according to the rules of Logick . The like you haue in the Canon Hoc est . which afterwards the Doctor obiecteth , Contendimus Sacrificium Ecclesiae duobus confici , duobus constare , visibili elementorum specie , & inuisibili D. N.I. C. carne . Wee contend that the Sacrifice of the Church doth consist of two things ; the visible species of the elements , and the inuisible bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ . And in ould Irenaeus , Qui est à terra panis percipiens vocationem Dei , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . iam non communis panis est , sed Eucharistia , ex duabus rebus constans , terrena , & coelesti . The bread which hath being from the earth , receauing the inuocation of God , ( being consecrated , ) is now , not common bread , but Eucharist , consisting of two things , the eartlie , ( the species , ) and the heauenlie , ( the bodie . ) And another ould Father before cited , Panis iste non effigie sed natura mutatus , omnipotentia Verbi factus est caro . That bread being changed not in shape ( there is the species remaining : ) but in nature , is by the omnipotencie of the word made flesh . ( there is the inuisible substance , the flesh , or bodie of our Sauiour Iesus Christ . If you finde in authors teritur with corpus otherwhile ; you finde a caution with it , Sub vtraque specie , & sub vtriusque speciei particula singula , totus est Christus Iesus ; & sumitur residens in coelo , sedens ad dextram Patris : ipse verè est in hoc Sacramento , dentibus teritur ( secundum species ) & integer manet . Manducatur & non corrumpitur . Immolatur & non motitur . Stephan . Eduen . lo. de Saciam . Altar . c. 15. vixit circa annum 950. Credimus terrenas substantias quae in mensa Dominica per sacerdotale ministerium diuinitus sanctificantur , ineffabiliter , incomprehensibiliter , mirabiliter operante superna potentia , conuerti in essentiam Dominici Corporis ; reseruatis ipsatum rerum speciebus , & quibusdam aliis qualitatibus , ne percipientes cruda & cruenta horrerent ; & vt credentes fidei proemia ampliora perciperent ; ipso tamen Dominico corpore existente in coelestibus ad dextram Patris immortali , inuiolato , integro , incontaminato , illaeso : vt verè dici possit , & ipsum corpus quod de Virgine sumptum est nos sumere , & tamen non ipsum : ipsum quidem quantum ad essentiam , veraeque naturae proptietatem , atque virtutem ; non ipsum , si spectes panis vinique speciem , caeteraque superius comprehensa . Hanc fidem tenuit à priscis temporibus , & nunc tenet Ecclesia quae per totum diffusa orbem Catholica denominatur Lanfrancus Archiepiscopus Cantuar. li. de Eucharist . Vix● circa annum 1059. & cum Bérengario disputauit . ) I proceede vnto

The second part of the sence , Profiteor panem ( eundem ) sensualiter non solùm Sacramento sed in veritate manibus sacerdotum tractari , frangi , & fidelium dentibus atteri . I professe that the ( consecrated ) bread , is sensiblie touched with the bands of Priests , broken , and by the faithfull chewed , not in sacrament onlie but in verie deed . This is the second part of ( I do not saie the words : but ) the sence : wherin you will haue more adoe to finde a difficultie , then I shall haue to finde the solution , The Question is not what other men say of them : but what is contained manifestlie in them . which the wordes , if they be supposed to stand thus , offer of themselues . That the Preist doth touch the consecrated bread with his hand , and his mouth , and his tongue , euerie one knowes ; and our Sauiours bodie being therein reallie , in rei veritate , not in signo tantum , he , doth also touch it , more , then the woman touched it , who toucht immediatlie but his garment . yet , you can not denie but that indeede and trulie she did touch it . Some denied , then , that any had donne it ; and our Sauiour himself confuted them , and affirmed , and proued it . The historie is in the Ghospell . A woman that had a bloodie flux , came behinde our Sauiour , and touched his garment , the border of it ; he demaunded , who it was that had touched him , they denied that anie had done it . Negantibus omnibus &c. he stood in it , still , that it was so : And a woman — came behind him , and touched the border of his garment : and immediatly her is●ue of blood stanched , And Iesus , 〈◊〉 who touched me ? When all denied , Peter and they that were with him said , Master the multitude throng thee — . And Iesus said somebodie hath touched me , for I perceaue that vertue is gonne out of me . And when the woman sawe that the was not hid , she came trembling , and falling downe before him she declared vnto him before all the people for what cause 〈◊〉 had touched him , — Luc 8. tetigit me aliquis : and proued it , nam & ego noui virtutem de me exijsse , where vpon , the woman fell vpon her knees at his feete , and confest it .

It is not necessarie when wee saie wee touch or see a thing , that euerie thing in it , euerie essentiall part be according to it self an obiect of the sense ; or that the sense perceaue euerie part of it that is sensible . He who lookes you in the face , saith he sees you , though the rest of your bodie be within your cloathes . and if you , being an 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 cataphract in your protestantish 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 should for feare pull downe your beuer before you come into the list , your Aduersarie for all that might light vpon your ( ) vnlesse you bring with you Giges his ring , so to make your self inuisible ; as other of your Champions it seemes did , manie hundred yeares together ; for none of them appeared , vnles it were to Swinglius one , Ater an albus , he knew not ; and an other to Luther , With a great voice .

I see a man , yet my eie doth not discerne the substance of his soule ; or his matter ; or his sauour . and , by touching him , I doe not feele his colour , or discerne his forme from his matter . Wee should end manie controuersies in Philosophie soone , if soules could be seene with eies , and matter touched . There is a distinction amongst the Peripatetiks , of perse , and per accidens , appliable to many thinges . and , per accidens is said manie waies , M. Mirth ; which had you learned , you might haue beene a better Scholler then many be , and more worthie of your cap.

You haue heard the sence of Berengarius : I come now to looke vpon the coherence of his wordes , which one cannot mistake in as far it appartaines to the former part . Consentio autem S. R. Ap. Sedi & ore & corde profite or &c. scilicet panem & vinum quae in altari ponuntur post consecrationem non solum sacramentum , sed etiam verum corpus & sanguinem D. N. I. C. esse : The sumne whereof is this , Profiteor panem & vinum post consecrationem non solum Sacramentum esse sed etiam verum corpus & sanguinem .

The later part is this , & sensualiter non solum sacramento sed in veritate manibus sacerdotum tractari , frangi & fidelium dentibus atteri . where , though he do not repeate the word panem , yet the construction of the sentence doth inforce the repetition of it . Profiteor panem , esse corpus ; & manibus sacerdotum tractari , what ? the same panem . This is the natiue construction of the wordes . The coniunction & , doth but couple diuers attributes , est corpus , & tangitur , & atteritur ; leauing the subiect still vnchanged . as if I should say , Petrus est substantia , & currit , & discurrit ; Substantia , and currens , and discurrens , were attributes ; and Petrus the subiectum to them all .

If anie should demaund how corpus and Sacramentum both , can be predicated vpon this subiect panis : I desire him first of all to looke againe vpon the former part , and he shall see directlie without all controuersie that it is so . Profite or panem & vinum post consecrationem non solum Sacramentum sed etiam verum corpus & sanguinem esse ; Supra pag. 239 there both are affirmed ▪ and the like is in the Canon Hoc est , before also cited . whereunto may be added the wordes of S. Ireneus . And the thing is easilie conceaued ; for , the Consecrated heauenlie bread , the Eucharist , the Blessed Sacrament , hath the exteriour forme of bread ; it is a Sacrament : and within that forme , or exteriour signe , it hath the bodie of our Sauiour it containes , or concludes , both , vnder the name : Berengarius . Qui dicit panis & vinum altatis solummodo sunt Sacramenta , vel panis & vinum altaris solummodo sunt verum corpus Christi & sanguis , modis omnibus panem & vinum superesse constituit . ●anfrancus . Nihil horum Romana Synodus or dendum esse decreuit : nec Humbertus Episcopus ad confitendum vel iurandum horum tibi aliquid tradidit . Prior quidem sententia per quam dicitur , panis & vinum altaris solummodo Sacramenta sunt ; tua est tuorumque sequacium . Posterior verò quae enunciat , panis & vinum altatis solummodo sunt verum Christi corpus & sanguis , nullius hominum est . Nam , & tu veritatem carnis & sanguinis negas ; & Ecclesia Christi sic panem in carnem , vinum cred●t conuerti in sanguinem , vt tamen salubriter credat & veraciter recognoscat Sacramentum esse Dominicae passionis , diuinae propitiationis , concordiae & vnitatis ; postremò assumptae de Virgine carnis & sanguinis , singula suis distinctisque modis . Lanfrancus lib. de Sacrament . Altaris , aduersus Berentium . wherefore both together , may well be affirmed on it .

And if Berengarius had affirmed the one onelie ( abstracting from , but not denying , the other , abstrah●ntium non est mendacium ) as , when I say , the Heauenlie bread is the bodie of our Sauiour , Panis consecratus est corpus Christi , and stop there ; it had beene easie , in this case also , to giue the true sense : for , sometimes the word panis , and Sacramentum , and Eucharistia , supponunt pro corpore , connotande speci●s ; as Deuines well remember . To sa●e nothing of that figuratiue kind of speach , wherein the part is elegantlie taken for the whole ; I presume you know the distinction betwixt suppositio and significatio . or , the whole for the part : which figure , if wee should vse in speaking of this mysterie , ( as S. Iohn did in speaking of the Incarnation , Verbum caro factum est , ) wee should not exclude , but include , and confirme the reall presence ; as he doth the Incarnation , in the wordes but now cited . Neither be wee so scrupulous , as neuer to vse a figure in this matter of the blessed Sacrament . though none , without contradicting God him self , can auouch , in it , or in the wordes of Institution , a meere figure .

But to returne againe to the Profession ; you may perceaue now ( if you will but set aside your humor of partialitie , and iudge according to the plaine sense and construction which the words offer ( that what some other ( suppose a Schoole-man ) might haue expressed in a larger discourse ; saying for example , that , the bodie , not according to it 's owne forme and nature , but according to the Sacramentall species and figure wherein it is , is touched with hands and teeth , euen that , Berengarius in fewer wordes doth professe , in saying , the consecrated bread is touched with hands and teeth . making the subiect of his speach bread , which word ( bread ) he had immediatlie before professed to signifie both , the species or Sacrament , and the bodie . and therefore chooseth rather the same word be resumed againe , when he speaketh of touching , then to put corpus , in place of it , least the Reader by that occasion considering the thing signified by it , apart , & not as in that Sacramentall forme , might mistake him . Which now ( if he attend to his wordes , and their construction , and coherence , ) he cannot do ; being not able to finde whereunto tractari and atteri be related , or what is in the speach , the subiect of touching or chewing , till he comes to panem in the beginning : where he findes withall that it signifies both corpus and the species together .

And , did panis ( which is to be resumed in the second part as I haue shewed ) stand there , in that second part , for corpus , connotando species , or by a Synecdoche stand ( it self signifying the Whole , ) for a part : yet still the same warines doth appeare , in that tangi and atteri were not attributed to the bodie , but as signified by a name bringing the species withall into the hearers mind ; by a name signifying the whole : and not standing for a part but as it is within the whole . The honour of which prudent circumspection is not indeed due to Berengarius , but to those who conceaued & drew the forme .

Consider now the speaches Master Waferer , and see how they differ , that which Featlie puts in his margine as Berengarius wordes , Credo orpus Domini &c. manibus sacerdotum tractari , frangi , & fidelium dentibus atteri : and Berengarius his owne wordes , as they are to be ordered according to the right Syntaxis . Profiteor de Sacramentis Panem ( he meanes that which is consecrated , the Sacrament ) manibus Sacerdotum tractari , frangi , & fidelium dentibus atteri . who doth not perceaue how the later brings with it an explication , whereby it is made intelligible , which the former doth not ? He who saies the Sacrament is handled , broken , touche ▪ with the teeth ; is easilie vnderstood , but when you saye the bodie is handled , broken , touched , the speach is obscure , and needs an explication .

Yet with an explication , he that beleeues the reall presence , will perceaue the meaning of it ( of your proposition , for of that I speake now ) to be that according to the forme of bread wherein the bodie is , it is said to be touched , handled , broken , though not according to it 's owne proper forme . and with this explication he will beleeue it .

Those who denie God to be Incarnate , will neuer beleeue that he could be seene with mens eies , that he could be nailed vpon a crosse . He that is infinite , might he , saie they , haue a figure ? he that is impassible , suffer ? he that is immortall , could he die ? yes , he could .

Being in the forme of God , he esteemed it no robberie himself to be equall to God ; but he made himself of no reputation , taking on him the forme of a seruant , made into the likenes of men , and found in the fashion of a man , he humbled himself and became obedient vnto death , euen the death of the crosse . Phillippens . 2. He was God and in the forme of man . as he was God , according to his diuinitie , he could not suffer ; he was infinite , immutable , immortall , impassible . as man , according to his humanitie , he had a visible shape , a figure , in which he was seene , and touched , and suffered ; and died . No man euer saw God . Ioan. 1. yet , He was seene vpon the earth , and conuersed amongst men . Baruc. 3. God is a Spirit . Ioan. 4. and a spirit cannot be touched , or felt with hands . it hath not flesh and bone . Luk. 24. but yet , feele and see , &c. Ibidem . reach hither thy hand — my Lord and my God . Ioan. 20. The Word was with God , and the Word was God ; the same was in the beginning with God . all things were made by him . Ioan. 1. true . and , the Word was made flesh , and dwelt amongst vs . Ibidem . That which was from the beginning ; which wee haue heard , which wee haue seene with our eies , which wee haue looked vpon , and our hands haue handled of the word of life : and the life was manifested , and wee haue seene it , and beare witnes , and shew vnto you that eternall life which was with the Father , and appeared vnto vs ; that which wee haue seene and ●eard , &c. 1. Ioan. 1 Heare you this Master Wa●erer ? life , eternall life , that which was with the Father , that life , appeared vnto vs ; wee saw it , with our eies ; wee toucht it , with our hands .

Touched life , touched the intellectuall Word , touched God , a Spirit ; with bands . What ? would you haue more light to see how this might come to passe ? behold . The life was the light of men . It was the true light which doth illuminate euerie man that commeth into the world . This light is neere . it is neere you ; you are a man . Ioan. 1. The word was made flesh . Now you see it . that Word , that life , that Spirit , God , was in the forme , of man , and according to that forme , he was touched , with hands .

You beleeue it ▪ and see withall how sacred mysteries , when they be deliuered in some termes be more easilie conceaued , then in others . When I saie , Christ , was touched with hands , torne with whips ; nailed vpon the Crosse ; you conceaue me without a commentarie : but , when I saie , God was torne with whips , or , nailed vnto the Crosse , you expecte an explication , least the the hearers mistake the meaning as those Hereticks did that thought the Diuinitie suffered . So , when wee saie , the Sacrament is touched with hands , or teeth ; panis , ( consecratus , ) or sacramentum , manibus tractatur , frangitur , I shall be easilie vnderstood . But if one saie , as Featlie puts it , Corpus Domini nostri manibus Sacerdotum tractatur , frangitur , there will be expected an an explication , least the hearers mistake , and think , that our Sauiours bodie according to it 's owne dimensions and forme , is vsed so .

As for those wordes in rei veri●ate , whether you take them to signifie that the bodie is trulie touched , according to that Sacramentall forme wherein it is ; or , that this touching of the bodie , is distinct from touching of it in a meere signe or Sacrament ; it will come in the end all to one . For , being reallie in the forme which is touched , it is trulie said to be touched otherwise then it could be by the touch of an emptie signe ▪ and a further determination of it was not necessarie . It is not such as that of the Iewes , or of the woman ; touching him . one of those was by the garment ; the other was , secundum inhaerentem formam . this forme heere which immediatlie receaues the touch and communicates the denomination to the bodie as in it , is more vnited then the one of those , and therefore more apt to communicate the denomination ; howeuer it be said lesse vnited then the other . Whether the denomination be , in regard of the bodie , ( for the species there is no difficultie , ) proper , or improper , or lesse proper ; the Confession doth not specifie . Should I talke of Analogie , Mortons rigour would haue wine broken properlie : though he were not well aware it ensued vpon his pretence you would not vnderstand me ; and if I speake of Aequiuocum à consilio , you will take occasion to make inuectiues against mentall reseruation , for you are curious to paint dolphins in a wood . wherefore I will onlie repeate what hath beene said allreadie . the bodie is so approximated to the hand , and mouth , by a reall presence in the forme of bread , that it cannot be trulie said to be touched Sacramento solùm .

Neither is this manner of speach found heere onlie in this Confession whereunto Berengarius did subscribe . Others before had it ; and they were such as vnderstood better then you , the power of words : and in what sort ( in mysteries of this nature ) they might be verified . Sapientum est rebus imponere nomina , and to those who are skilfull in reuealed Theologie it appertaines to name formalities where they find names wanting to things appertaining to this obiect : or to apply words , before inuented , Stephan Episc. Eduensis , suprà pag. 3 , 1. to signifie more than those inuentors thought on : so making them Analogicall , or Equiuocall ; as they see cause .

Tertullian . Zelus perorabit ingemens C●ristianum &c. eas manus admouere Corpori Domini , quae Daemonijs corpora conferunt . He speakes of those who made Idols . Proh scelus ! semel Iudaei Christo manus intulerunt , isti quotidie corpus eius lacessunt . ô manus praecidendae ! a. a. Tertull . i● de Idol . c. 7 Zeale will plead lamenting and greeuing that a Christian touches the bodie of our Lord with those hands that made bodies for deuils . b. b. Ibidem . Oh the villanie ! the Iewes once laid violent hands on Christ ; these molest his bodie dailie . ô hands worthie to be cut of ! This is he , if you remember , who said , Caro vescitur corpore . S. Cyrill of Alexandria Iure sanctae Congregationes d●e octaua in Eccles●is fiunt , & foribus sublimiore modo clausis visibiliter simul atque inuisibiliter Christus omnibus apparet . Inuisibiliter quidem vt Deus , visibiliter in corpore . praebet enim nobis carnem suam tangendam , vt firmiter credamus quia templum verè suum suscitauit . and in an other place vpon those wordes , Ego in ipsis & tu in me , vt in vnum sint consummati . Corporaliter ( saith he ) Filius per benedictionem mysticam nobis vt homo vnitur , spiritualiter autem vt D●us , &c. c. c. Cyrill . Alexan. l. 12 in Ioan. c. 58. Hol●e assemblies are rightlie made in Churches vpon the eight daie , and the doores being shut after an higher manner Christ appeares to all , visiblie and inuisiblie both : inuisiblie as God , visiblie in his bodie . For he g●ues vs his flesh to be touched , that wee may constantlie beleeue he truly did raise his temple , ( or bodie . ) d. d. Idem li. 11 in Ioa. c. 27 The sonne ( of God ) by the mysticall benediction ( consecration ) is vnited vnto vs as man , corporallie : as God , spirituallie . S. Chrysostom . Quemadmodum in Regijs , non parietes , non tectum aureum , sed Regium corpus in throno sedens omnium praestantissimum est , ita quoque in Coetis Regium corpus , quod nunc in terra , viendum tibi proponitur . Neque Angelos neque Archangelos , non Coelos , non Coelos Coelorum , sed ipsum horum omnium tibi Dominum ostendo . Animaduertis quonam pacto quod omnium maximum est atque praecipuum , in terra non conspicaris tantum sed tangis ( he is approximated ●hen sufficientlie to verifie those words which were obiected ) neque solum tangis sed comedis , & eo accepto domum redis ? e. e. Chrysost. Hom. 24. in Ep. pri. Corint . As in royall pallaces the walls and the gilded roofes are not esteemed the most magnificent thing of all , but the royall person seated in his princely throne : so is the kings bodie in heauen . Now this makest thou see heere on earth . For heere I shew thee , not Angels , nor Archangels , nor heauens , nor the heauen of heauens , but I shew vnto thee him who is the verie Lord of all these things . Thou perceauest now in what manner thou doest behold heere on earth that thing which is most pretious and most honourable of all other : and how thou doest not see it onlie , but also doest touch it ; and that thou doest not touch it onlie but also doest eate it , & hauing receaued it returned vnto thy house .

Hoc Corpus affixum , verberatum , morte victum non est Hoc corpus sol crucifixum videms , radiosauertit . — Hoc corpus in praesepi reueriti sunt Magi , & viri impij & barbari longo itinere confecto cum timore & tremore plutimo adorauerunt . I mitemur igitur saltem barbaros , nos qui coelorum ciues sumus . Illi enim cùm id praesepe & tugurium tantùm , neque eorum quiequam quae tu nunc intueris viderent , summa accesserunt reuerentia & horrore : tu verò non in praesepe id , sed in altari ; non mulierem quae in vlnis teneat , sed Sacerdotem praesentem & spiritum perabunde fuper proposito diffusum sacrificio vides , nec simpliciter vt illi corpus intueris , sed & eius potentiam & omnem cognoscis administrationem , & nihil eorum quae per ipsum facta sunt ignoras , & diligenter es initiatus in omnibus . S. Chrysost. Hom. 24. Pri Cor. Ascende ad coeli portas , & diligenter attende non coeli sed coeli Coelorum , & tunc quod dicimus intueberis . Etenim quod summo honore dignum est , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 id tibi in terra situm ostendam , Ibidem . Non est temerè hoe excogitatum , nec frustra memoriam mortuorum inter sacra mysteria celebramus , aut accedimus pro istis agnum illum iacentem ( in altari ) & peccata mundi tollentem deprecantes ; sed vt his consolatio illis aliqua siet . Idem Hom. 41 pri. Cor. Pro omnibus oramus qui ante nos vitâ functisunt , maximum credentes animarum iuuamen pro quibus offertur obsecratio sancti illius & tremendi 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 quod ante nos iacet Sacrificij . S. Cyrill . Hier. Catech. myst . 6. Sanctum ac viuisicum , i●●ruentumque in Ecclesia celebramus Sacrificium , ●●n hominis alicuius nobis similis & communis cor●us ; similiter & preciosum sanguinem esse 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 quod proponitur , credentes , sed magis tanquam proprium vinificantis verbi corpus accipimus . Anathem . 11. Conc. Ephes .

That which lieth , on the Altar , before the Priest , heere on earth ; may be touched , with hands : what hinders ? And what this thing is , it is made out of Controuersie , by these words , proprium verbi corpus ; quod in praesepi reueriti sunt Magi ; affixum , verberatum ; quod summo honore dignum est : agnus peccati mundi tollens ; obsecratio ill●us quod ante nos ●acet Sacrificij . Vide S. Dionis . A●eopag● . 3. Hierarch Ecclesiast , which bookes are well defended by Master Brie●ley in his treatise of the Masse .

Before he said that our Sauiour after his Ascension exhibited his bodie to vs , vt teneremus & manducaremus , quod , saith he , maximum dilectionis signum est . quos enim amamus nonnunquam etiam morsu petimus . And before that againe , shewing how the words of S. Paul ( which are principallie vnderstood of vnbloodie immolation ) be verified also in breaking of the host , which action is ( though not an essentiall , yet ) an integrall part , as it were , of the vnbloodie immolation , Quare addit , saith he , quem frangimus ? and he answers , Hoc in Eucharistia videre licet , in cruce autem minimè : sed omnino contra , os enim eius non comminuetis ex eo . Sed quod in cruce passus non est id in oblatione patitur . The same Father in an other place , Quos radios solares non deberet excedere manus illa quae hanc carnem perrumpit , os quod igne impletur spirituali , lingua quae cruentatur hoc admirabili sanguine ? in which words he doth most vehementlie vrge a reall presence to the Priests hands and mouth and tongue , in regard of the species of bread , and wine , wherein they be . And againe . O miraculum , ô Dei benignitatem qui cum patre sursum sedet , in illo temporis articulo omnium manibus pertractatur ! there is no miracle in being touched in a meere signe . Quum Spiritum Sanctum inuocauerit sacrificiumque illud horrore & reuerentia plenissimum perfecerit , communi omnium Domino manibus assidué pertractato , quaero ex te quoto illum in ordine collocabimus ? And Quis daret nobis vt eius carnibus impleremur ? quod Christus fecit vt maiori Charitate nos astringeret , & vt suum in nos ostenderet desiderium , non se tantum videri permittens desiderantibus , sed & tangi , & manducar . f f Idem in eadem Hom. Why doth he adde , which we break ? this in the Eucharist wee may see : not vpon the Crosse , but quite otherwise , you shall not bruise a bone of him . But what he suffered not vpon the Crosse , that he suffers in the oblation , ( the Masse . ) g g Idem Hom. 26. in Matth. Then what sun-beames had not that hand need to be more pure , that breaketh vp this flesh , that mouth which is filled with this spirituall fier , that tongue which is embrued or sprinkled with this wonderfull blood ? h h Idem de Sacerdotio l 3. O the miracle ! o the benignitie of God! he that sitteth aboue with the Father , is touched at the same time with euerie ones hands . i i Idem de Sa. cerd l. 6 Dare you , Mirch , Featlie , Morton , publiklie call your communion bread so ? when he ( the Priest ) hath inuocated the holy Ghost and celebrated the most reuerend and dreadfull Sacrifice , touching dailie with his hands the Lord of all , I demaund of thee in what rank or order wee shall place him ? k k Idem Hom 46 in Ioa. Who would graunt to vs to be filled with his flesh ? this Christ hath donne to oblige vs vnto him with more loue , and to demonstrate his affection to vs : suffering , himself not onlie to be seene of such , as desire it , but to be touched also , and eaten . Reflect on this . Christ himself , the Lord of all , he that sitteth aboue with the Father , ( this is not bakers bread , ) is touched with hands , and * * Et dentibus carni suae infigi . Ibidem . teeth also . l l Cyrill . Hier. Catech. myst. 5. Accedens ad communionem , non expansis manuum volis accede , neque cum disiunctis digitis , sed sinistram veluti sedem quandam subijcias dextrae quae tantum regem susceptura est , & concaua manu suscipe corpus Domini . Approaching to the communion , come not with the palmes of thy hands spred out , nor with thy fingars parted ; but , holding thy left hand as it were a resting place vnder thy right hand which is to receaue so great a king : that with the hollownes of thy hand thou maiest receaue the bodie of our Lord . Before you hea●d Saint Augustine saie that wee receaue the Meditatour , Supra pag. 45. God and man , with our mouth .

If against these Fathers , you should obiect that the flesh of Christ is impassible in it self , and that our Sauiour vnder the consecrated species doth not appeare in his owne forme to our eies : they would Answer that ; yet notwithstanding he may be seene and touched , with hands , and mouth according to the Sacramentall forme wherein he is . God , in himself , is impassible ; but because he was in the forme of man , he might suffer , and be nailed vppon the Crosse ; and this , without driuing the nailes ( as you seeme to conceaue ) through the Diuinitie . And , according to the same ( humane ) forme he was trulie seene , though the mens eies discouered him not according to the diuine forme , within . For , had they knowne it , they would hot haue crucified the Lord of glorie .

If secondlie you obiect the Capharnaites interpretation ; the Reader ( by that which hath beene said before out of S. Augustine ) will take notice of your willfull errour in that behalf ; and acquit these great Schollers heere cited from so foule an imputation . Wee neither eate , not touch with mouth , or hands , the flesh of our Sauiour according to it's proper forme , ( which was the Caphernaietes errour ; ) but in the forme of bread , we touch , and eate it . The bread which I will giue is my flesh . Ioan. 6. Mat. 26. 1. Cor. 11. My flesh is meate indeede , take ( with your hand ) and eate ( with your mouth ) this ( in forme of bread ) is ( what ? ) my bodie , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , this is my bodie which is broken for you .

Apologist .

To that part of the section where he mistakes S. Augustine to maintaine a corporall eating when he affirmes that Iudas receaued the price of our Redemption , not by his faith for that was shut , he being reprobated , therefore into his bodie . I answer that there are two kinds of eating in the Sacrament , one both corporall and spirituall , wherein the bodie feeds on the outward elements corporallie , whilst the soule receaueth the true bodie and blood of Christ by faith , the other onlie corporall wherein the receauer partakes onlie the outward signe , and not the bodie signified . So I say , Iudas receaued the last waie onlie , and not the first , though his faith had shut out Christs bodie yet his mouth was open to let downe the Sacrament of his bodie . He ( as all the wicked ) receaued panem Domini the bread of the Lord , Sacramento tenus , according to the visible signe : the other eleuen ( as all the faithfull ) did also reuera indeed partake panem Dominum of bread which was the Lord .

Censure .

It is well you confesse , that your Answer is but to part of the discourse : it hath hetherto beene your manner , the rest is such as you know not how to cauill at it . The words of S. E. which you pick out be these , Iudas ( according to S. Augustine ) receaued the price of our Redemption not with the mind sure ( he was then a traitor ) but with the mouth . The substance of your Answere is , that he receaued bread , and wine ; the signes or elementes ; but , not the bodie , and blood . which answer is so farre from satisfying the place of S. Augustine , that it is directlie contradictorie . S. Aug. Epist 162. his words are , Tolerat ipse Dominus Iudam , Diabolum , furem , venditorem suum , sinit accipere inter innocentes Discipulos , quod fideles nouerunt precium nostrum . Our Lord himself suffers Iudas , a deuill , a thiefe who sould him ; he lets him receaue amongst the innocent Disciples that which the faithfull know our price . That which the faithfull , the Apostles , knew to be the price of our redemption , that he , Iudas tooke , what was that ? wine , or blood ? non corruptibilibus auro vel argento redempti estis , saith our Pastor , sed pretioso sanguine quasi agni immaculati Christi . 1. Pet. 1. You were not redeemed with corruptible things , gold and siluer ; but with the precious blood of Christ , as of a lambe without spot or blemish . And the Saints in the Reuelation , Apoc. 5. Redemisti nos in sanguine tuo , thou hast redeemed vs in thy blood . This is the price of our Redemption as the faithfull know ; and this , Iudas , though he was a traitor , did receaue amongst the rest of the Disciples ; not , with deuotion , nor with faith neither ; not corde , no ; he was one of those qui non crediderunt : but ore tantum , with his mouth , onlie ▪ whereas the other , both with heart , Aug. l. 2. con . Aduers . leg . c. 9. and mouth , into themselues , did receaue it . And so did the Church in S. Augustines time . Wee receaue with faithfull heart and mouth , the mediatour of God and man , man Christ Iesus ( this is not bakers bread ) giuing vs his bodie to be eaten , and his blood to be drunck : though it seeme ( to such as Waferer is , ) more horrible ( euen thus , with the mouth ) to eate m●s flesh then to kill , and to drinck mans blood then to shed it .

In Baptisme wee were incorporated into Christ , made one flesh : and this vnion he doth consummate , as S. Augustine doth insinuate by the reall exhibition of his bodie in the Sacrament . But this matter is to high for M. Waferer ; who at least should haue regarded the words of Origen ( before his eies ) who saies of our Lord in the Sacrament , Suprà Conf. pag. 65. Where he enters vnworthilie there he goes in to iudgment , to the receauer . Mark well , there He ( He , to whom Origen will haue the communicant saie , Vt ad perficiendum mysterium vnitatis accip●amus ipsi d. s●o , quod accepit ipse de nostro Cap. firmiter ex Conc. Lateran . as the Church doth at Masse , Domine non sum dignus vt intres sub tectum meum , Lord , I am not worthie that thou enter vnder my roofe : this is not bread , he would not haue you call bread , Lord , as S. E. told you in his Notes ) Where He enters vnworth●lie , there He goes in to Iudgment to the receauer . The like , of inuocating our Lord there , in the forme of bread , on the Alter , wee haue in a. a. Rogantes Agnum propositum . S Chry. Hom. 41. in 1. Cor. S. Chrysostome , b, b, Obsecratio sancti illius & tremendi quod in altari positum est Sacrificij . Saint Cyrill . Hier. Cathec . Myst. 5. S. Cyrill , and others , the thing which heere I vrge is , that the Church did in S. Augustines time , receaue that which he calles the Mediatour , not with heart onlie , but also ( hoeuer to infidels the thing might appeare horrible , ) with the mouth : that the Apostles did eate panem Dominum , bread the Lord ; which bread , vnderstood well what they did : and that Iudas , notwithstanding his malicious infidelitie , receaued ( he doth nor saie the outward signes , onlie , as you do , but ) the price of our Redemption ; adding that the faithfull know it so to be . Those know it that haue learned the difference betwixt blood , and wine , betwixt panis Dominus , the Mediatour , and bakers bread . He knowes it c. c. S. August . tract. 62. in Ioan. qui diiudicat , hoc est , discernit à caeteris cibis , Dominicum corpus with the eie of faith who perceaues that 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 d. d. S Cyrill . Hier. Catech. t. 4. that which appeare bread , is not bread ( in substance . ) what then ? 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 but the bodie . the bodie ? how ? did not our Sauiour take bread ? yes , he did ; but that e, e, Serin . de Caena Cypr. bread being changed , not in shape , but in nature , is by the omnipotencie of the word made flesh : as you were told from Antiquitie .

You will replie that the rest of the Apostles hauing faith did receaue two thinges , one with the bodie by the mouth , to wit , the outward elementes or signes : the other With the soule by faith , to wit the bodie and blood : which later , Iudas ( wanting faith ) could not do , and therefore onlie with his bodie by the mouth receaued the signes , this , S. Augustine , you think , insinuates when he saith of him that he receaued panem Domini , hauing said of the rest that they receaued panem Dominum .

Answer . of panis Dominus bread the Lord , the Mediatour , you heard before from S. Augustine , that the Church in his time , ( it is the same of the Apostles , ) receaued it , not onlie with their heart or soule , but also with their mouth : that mouth which , in his words is distinguished from the soule or heart . Of the bread of our Lord , panis Domini , ( which S. Augustine , expounding the 40. Psalme , qui edebat panes meos , &c. saith , Iudas did eate contra Dominum against our Lord , according as it was before prophecied , ) I will speake afterwards ; Per buccellam illum designauit , vt appareret de illo dictum , qui edebat panes meos . S. Aug. Enar. Psal. 40. he designed him by the morsell , to make it appeare that it was said of him , He that eateth my bread . Let that bread alone a while , and let vs consider whether Iudas ( who did not receaue spirituallie ) tooke anie more , according to S. Augustine , then onlie the outward signe . Sure , our Sauiours blood , the price of our Redemption , is more then your outward signe which you speake of ; and Iudas , according to S. Augustine , receaued ( he doth not saie the signe of the price , but ) that which the faithfull know to be the price of our Redemption . such indeed as had not faith , Iudas himself , thought it bread and wine ; but the faithfull , the rest of the Disciples , they knew that , in substance , the thing was not bakers bread , as before consecration , but panis Dominus , bread the Lord ; not wine from the grape , but the price of our Redemption , Act. 20.28 . the verie blood of God . Number now the thinges receaued by the rest ( all that is antecedent to the effect which the Sacrament doth giue , ) and the thinges receaued by Iudas , and see whether you can find what such thing they receaued more , the signes , both receaued : the bodie and blood , the price of our Redemption , both receaued ; what is there els in the Sacrament that is antecedent to the effect which it produceth in the worthie receauer ?

If wee consider the effect of the Sacrament , the Apostles by it ( by the Sacrament ) receaued increase of grace , they receaued it to life : but Iudas comming vnworthilie , with treason in his heart , increased by a sacrilegious act the grieuousnes of his sinne . A man ought to come with great reuerence and preparation to receaue the benefites of God , but peculiarlie to this Sacrament wherein with the benefites he is to receaue God himself , he ought to examine himself well and look into euerie corner of his conscience that there be nothing amisse in it when he comes that searcheth Hierusalem with a candle , and hates iniquitie with his heart . If malice , if abomination , be not remooued , if due preparation be not made , the Diuine Iustice will reuenge the contempt or neglect ; and that also , for example of others , euen ( oft ) in this life , which made the Apostle giue a generall warning vnto all that offer to come to this table , to trie themselues first . 1. Cor. 11 Let a man examine himself , and so let him eate of that bread and drink of that cup , and the reason . For he that eateth and drinketh vnworthilie eateth and drinketh damnation to himself , not discerning the Lords bodie , not omitting to mention the execution of Gods vindicatiue iustice vpon the transgressors . For this cause many are weake and sicklie amongst you , and many sleepe . There are in S. Cyprian , and other auncient Writers , S. Cypr. Serm. de lapsis . diuers examples of Gods iudgmentes in this behalf vppon such as ante expiata delicta , ante exomologesin factam criminis , ( mark this by the waye , for Confession ; ) ante purgatam conscientiam , haue pressed in amongst communicantes to receaue ; and thereby offerd violence ( as he spekes ) to the bodie and blood of Iesus-Christ . But wee need not goe so far to fetch examples , the example of him , wee were but now speaking of , Iudas , being notorious and most fearfull . He had receaued vnworthilie , and quicklie after ( his crime being enormous ) the Diuine Iustice permitted the Deuil to take possession of him , and to vse him in the betraying of the sonne of God ; and after , in the vtter vndoing of him self .

Our blessed Sauiour knowing this , did signifie it in the reaching of a peece of bread . Ioan. 13. Luc. 22. Cum intinxisset panem , dedit Iudae Simonis Iscariotae . Et post buxellam introiuit in eum Satanas . When he had dipped in , the bread , he gaue it to Iudas Iscariotes the sonne of Simon , and after the sop Satan entred into him . After which , exiuit continuo , he presentlie went out about the treason , this was panis Domini , quem manducabat contra Dominum . the poena , the execution of the Diuine Iustice , did accompanie it , he had before made himself liable hereunto : but heere beganne the manifest execution , and , by a new act of ingratitude in resoluing to betraie his Lord , and Master , who had admitted him to his table , and with his owne hand reached him bread , he merited ( so we sometimes vse the word ) that the execution should beginne at this instant or moment . Which ingratitude was so great that God in the Prophet , at the forsight of it , could not ( as it were ) forbeare to complaine , long before , Psal. 40. August . tract. 59. in Ioan. qui edebat panes meos ( Saint Augustine reades , in the place obiected panem meum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 magnificauit super me supplantationem . mine owne familiar freind in whom I trusted , he that did eate of my bread , hath greatlie troden me vnder foote . And this buccella , this panis Domini , was not the Sacrament according to S. Augustine . Non vt putant quidam negligenter legentes , tunc Iudas Christi corpus accepit ; intelligendum est enim quodiam omnibus eis distribuerat Dominus Sacramentum Corporis & sanguinis sui , See S , August . tract. 62. in Ioan. vbi & ipse Iudas erat , S. Tho. 3 , p. q. 81 art 2 Card. Peron . Passag . S. Aug. pag. 226 S. Aug tract 62 in Ioan. Quid autem erat panis traditori datus , nisi demonstracio cui gratiae fuisset ingratus ? Intrauit autem Satanas post hunc panem in Domini traditorem , vt sibi iam plenius possideret , in quem prius intrauerat vt deciperet . S. Augu. Ibidem . sicut Sanctus Lucas euidentissime narrat : Ac deinde ad hoc ventum est , vbi secundum narrationem Ioannis apertissimè Dominus per buccellam tinctam atque porrectam suum exprimit traditorem . Iudas did not then receaue the bodie of our Lord , as some who read negligentlie do think : for wee must vnderstand that our Lord had alreadie giuen the Sacrament of his bodie and blood to them all , where Iudas also was , as Saint Luke most plainelie relateth , and then afterwards this hapned , where according to the relation of Saint Iohn , our Lord by the morsell dipped and giuen , did manifestlie designe the partie that would betraie him . So he , in his Commentarie vpon S. Iohn ; where he hath more to this purpose . By this heere cited , it is cleere what he meant by panis Domini . he is his owne interpreter . What he meant by panis Dominus , and Mediator Dei & hominum , you know too , not bread , not a meere signe or figure , not the Sacramentall element as you speake , with a reference to the bodie or grace ; that is not panis Dominus , bread the Lord ; it is not Mediator Dei & hominum , the Mediator of God and men , Who then ? it followes , Homo Christus Iesus . Vide suprà in Praefat. & pag ... See againe the words of S. Chrysostome pag. 349 S. Cyrill pag. 350. and Origen pag. 65.

I will not heere dispute what the more learned of your men , Bilson , Hooker , Andrewes , &c. ( some of them be cited by Montague in his Appeale c. 30 ) ●old in this point whereon depend others of great waight . Either they take the words , Hoc est corpus meum , in their a. a. If they do not : the proposition is with them meerelie figuratiue Feat : Pag 294 & Wafer . pag. 35. vido sup . pag. 159. as it is w●th others pag. 163. natiue , proper sence , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 or they do not ? If they do not , the difference is in obiecte ; since wee do . As , betwixt vs , and Arians , about these Words Ego & Pater vnum sumus , there is difference in obiecto . If they take them in their natiue , proper sence , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , they are consequentlie to admit ( your b b Mor●ō●●●ed aboue pag 293. Patron tells you , ) the consequences which you Puritans denie . amongst which consequences you may finde the modus . Nobis vobiscum de obiecto conuenit , saith Andrewes to Bellarmine .

Per ambiguitates bilingues , communem fidem adfirmant , &c. Tertull. aduers . Valentin . Citatur inferius in solutione Arg. quinti. Do Consilium vt apertè fidem Ecclesiae praedices , aut loquaris vt credis . Dispensatio etenim ac libratio ista prudens verborum , indoctos decipere potest : Cautus auditor & lector citò deprehendet insidias ; & cuniculos quibus veritas subuertitur , apertè in luce demonstrabit . Et Ariani quos optimé nosti , multò tempore propter scandalum nominis homousion se damnare simulabant , venenaque erroris circumliniebant melle verborum . Sed tandem coluber se tortuosus aperuit , & noxium caput quod spiris totius corporis tegebatur , spirituali mucrone confossum est . S. Hieron . Aduerr . Ioan , Hierosol . Ep. ad Pammach . Quod si quando vrgeri coeperint , & aut subscribendum eis fuerit , aut exeundum de Ecclesia , miras strophas videas . Sic verba temperant , sic ordinem vertunt , & ambigua quaeque concinnant ; vt & nostram & aduersariorum confessionem teneant : vt aliter haereticus aliter catholicus audiat ; quasi non eodem spiritu & Apollo Delphicus atque Loxias oracula fuderit , Craeso & Pyrrho diuersis temporibus sed pari illudens stropha . Exempli causa pauca subijciam . Credimus , inquiunt , resurrectionem futuram corporum . Hoc si bené dicatur , pura confessio est . Sed quia corpora sunt coelestia & terrestria , & aër iste & aura tenuis iuxta naturam suam corpora nominantur , corpus ponunt non carnem : vt orthodoxus corpus audiens , carnem putet : haereticus spiritum recognoscat . Haec est eorum prima decipula , quae si deprehensa fuerit , instruunt alios dolos , & ●nnocentiam simulant , & maliciosos nos vocant ; & quasi simpliciter credentes , aiunt ; Credimus resurrectionem carnis . Hoc veró cùm dixerint , vulgus indoctum putat sibi sufficere , maximé quia idipsum & in ●ymbolo creditur . Interroges vltra , circuli strepitus ●ommouentur , fautores clamitant : Audisti resurre●tionem carnis ; quid quaeris amplius ? Et in peruersum ●udiis commutatis , nos sycophantae , illi simplices ap●ellantur . Quod si obduraueris frontem , & vrgere ●oeperis , carnem digitis tenens , an ipsam credant re●urrecturam quae cernitur , quae tangitur , quae incedit 〈◊〉 loquitur . primò rident : deinde annuunt . Dicentibus●ue nobis , vtrum capillos & dentes , pectus & ven●em , manus & pedes , caeterosque artus ex integro ●essurrectio exhibeat : tunc verò , risu se tenere non ●ossunt , cachinnoque ora soluentes , tonsores nobis ●ecessarios & placentas & medicos ac sutores ingerunt . ●dem S. Hieron . de Error . Orig. in Epist. ad Pammach & ●cean .

Congregatis Episcopis , volentibusque voces im●etatis ab Arianis inuentas è medio tollere . — & litte●rum sacrarum voces certas & confessas scripto com●ecti ; nimirum , ex Deo esse silium , & natura vnige●tum esse verbum , cumque solum virtutem & sapiē●am esse patris , & verum Deum esse , vt Ioannes dixit , ● splendorem gloriae , & formam substantiae patris vt ●aulus scripsit : hic Eusebiani prauas suas opiniones quentes , inter sese mussitate : Imus quoque & nos , inquientes , in vestram sententiam . Nam & nos quoque ex Deo sumus , &c S. Athanas . Epist ad Episc. Aphric . Episcopis verò denuò interrogantibus paucos istos , Anne agnoscerent Filium , non creaturam esse , sed virtutem & vnicam sapientiam Patris , & per omnia imaginem indemutabilis patris , & Deum verum ? Deprehensum est Eusebianos inter se conlusuriate & annuere ; nimirum , quasi ista etiam ad ipsos pertinerent . Nam & nos , inquientes , imago & gloria Dei appellamur , — Quod si etiam Deum verum Filium nuncupent , id & nos quoque non malè habet , quoniam verus Deus factus est . Haec Arianorum corrupta & pe●uersa mens . Caeterum Episcopi intellecta eorum fraude , collegerunt in vnum has voces &c. Ibid. Non omnibus dormio .

Post panis vinique benedictionem , se suum ipsiu● corpus praebere ac suum sanguinem disertis ac perspicuis ve●bis ( Christus ) testatus est . Quae verba à sanctis Euangelistis commemorata , & à D Paulo postea repetita cùm propriam illam ac apertissimam significationem praese ferant , secundum quam à Patribus intellecta sunt , indignissimum ●●nè flagitium est ea à quib●sdam contentiosis & prauis hominibus ad fictitios & imaginarios tropos quibus veritas carnis & sanguinis Christi negatur , contra vniuersum Ecclesiae sensum detorqueri . Conc. Trident. Sess. 13. c. 1. Animam sub vtraque , vi naturalis illius connexionis & concomitantiae qua partes Christi Domini &c. c. 3.

Quid ? credant ne filio ita dicenti . Ego & Pater vnum sumus ? Certè inquient , quia ita scriptum est , credimus , Sed quomodo vnum sint &c. S. Athan. vbi supra .

and more particularlie in his 9. Sermon Of the Resurrection , pag. 476. At the name of IESVS euerie kn●e should bow &c Philippens 2. If to his name , then your arguments against relatiue image worship are confessedlie inualid . His name , He , Iesus , hath left behind to vs , that wee may shew by our reuerence and respect to it , how much wee esteeme Him ; how true the Psalme shall be , Holy and reuerend is his Name . But if wee haue much adoe to get it bow at all : much more shall wee haue to get it donne to his name . There be some that do it not . What speake I of not doing it ? there be that not only forbeare to do it themselues , but put themselues ( he speakes of Puritans ) to an euill occupation , to finde faults where none is , and cast scruples into mens mindes , by no meanes to do it . Not to do it at his name ? Nay at the Holy mysteries themselues , not to do it : where his name is ( I am sure ) and more then his name , euen the bodie and blood of our Lord Iesus Christ ; and those , not without his soule ; nor that without his Deitie : nor all these , without inestimable high benefits of grace attending on them . So he , your Doctor Andrews . Are these things , all , within your communion-bread ? surelie no , Iesus , a Sauiour . secundum rationem spiritualis & Vniuersalis salutis , nomen est proprium Christo . S. Th. 3. p q. 37. a. 2. Ego sum Dominus , & non est absque me Saluator . Isa. 43. Not more , nor so much , as in his Name , the soule , ( for example , ) is not there , at all , any way , no not as in a signe . vnles at leingth , the words of Institution , sound with you thus , Hoc , est , corpus meum ; this bread , doth signifie , my soule . Which interpretation had your a. a. Doctor Carolstadius ex his sacrosanctis vocabulis , Hoc est corpus meum , miserè distorquet pronome● Hoc . Suinglius autem verbum substantivum Est , macerat . Oecolampadius nomen Corpus , torturae subiicit . Alij totum textum excarnificant & inuertunt . — Alij dimidiam partem textus crucifigunt , — Alij dicunt non esse articulos fidei , ideoque non esse de hi● contendendum , liberum enim cuique esse vt hic sentiat quicquid velit . Hi omnia pedibus conculcant & destruunt Veruntamen Spiritus Sanctus est in his singulis & nullus vult erroris argui in his tam diuersis & contrariis probationibus & textus ordinationibus cùm tamen vnam tantùm textus collocationem vera● esse oporteat . Adeo crassè & manifesté Diabolus no● naso suspendit . Luther . Desens . verb. coenae pag. 387 , Grand-Father heard of , he would with open laughter haue redoubled his crassé & manifeste Diabolus vos naso suspendit .

The fourth Argument was taken out of Gratian and the Glosse , that the Heauenlie bread is the flesh of Christ secundum quendam modum . It was Answered that the Glosse which doth vse the word Sacramentum , speakes of that which is Sacramentum tantum : and Gratian of the Canon , saith the Heauenlie bread which includes the flesh of Christ , is the visible flesh or bodie secundùm quemdam modum . Apologist .

For satisfaction concerning Gratian , if you but please to reade D. Featlie on another occasion , you shall finde him instead of yeelding that Gratian contradictes himself , proue that he oppugnes your transubstantiation . See the Conference betwixt D. Featlie and M. Musket , pag. 60. &c.

Censure .

He must looke for satisfaction somewhere els , it seemes , who doth expect it ; as no man euer did from you to my knowledge . Well! at your request , I haue turned vnto the Conference , and the page 60. What is there ?

Featlie . I make a breach vpon you with two Canons ; the Canon-lawe , and the Canon of your masse .

Answer . Nonne hoc spumosum ?

But stay : let vs make a demurre vpon the Doctors preface , and consider whether it be likelie that he doth vrge Authoritie , sincerelie . He who doth offer to perswade vs , that the Canon-lawe , that Gratian , that the Masse it self is against the reall presence , as heere in this argument he vndertakes to do , what will he not affirme ? what testimonies will he not presse to serue him ? what so strong that he will not wrest ? what so sacred that he will not violate ? he might aswell vrge against vs the Canon made at Trent , in this matter , and outface me , that in this defence , I , do not auouch , but oppose it . I cannot think him in his wits that vndertakes to perswade me , white is black : neither is he much wiser that takes on him to know the meaning of the Church better then Shee her self . Ea quae in voce , Arist. sunt earum quae in anima passionum notae . Where the wordes are obscure or ambiguous , it is better the speaker interprete his owne mind : then you that are not of his counsel .

I am sent hither by Waferer , to see how the Doctor doth vrge the Canon of Gratian ; which I will examine , God willing , before I returne to looke againe on his pamphlet : but , since insteed of one Canon I find two , drawne together , to make the greater noise ; I must giue the one a lift , to remoue it out of my waie , before I meddle with the other . Which waie the mouth of it stands , the Doctour ( he stood in his owne light , ) could not see . He tels vs it is against the Reall presence . Why so Master Featlie ? because a. a. Featl . Conf. with M. Musk . pag 66. it is verie incongruous to pray to God to looke downe mercifullie vpon Christ , and to accept the bodie and blood of his sonne , as he did Abels sacrifice of first fruites : yet the Canon of the Masse doth so , Offerimus tibi de tuis donis & datis hostiam puram &c. panem sanctum vitae aeternae & calicem salutis perpetuae : supra quae propitio ac sereno vultu respicere digneris & accepta habere sicut accepta habere dignatus es munera pueri tui Abel . Wee offer vnto thee of thy benefits and guifts , a pure hoast , — the holy bread of eternall life and the chalice of euerlasting saluation . Vpon which vouchsafe to looke downe with a fauorable cleere countenance , and to accep of , and auow them , as thou hast vouchsafed to accept of the guifts or oblations of Abel thy child .

Answer . That quae , is not referd , as you pretend , to Christ , or his bodie absolutè . reade againe and marke it . Neither would anie scholler conclude ( suppose your premises had beene right , ) ergo the Canon denies the reall presence : it affirmes it , and in those verie wordes . But rather thus , ergo that prayer is not well conceaued . or , is incongruous . Which is farre from your mark .

Wherefore to help out your argument , you adde an other peice . Per quem ( Christum ) haec omnia Domine semper bona creas , sanctificas , viuificas , benedicis & praestas nobis ; by whom o Lord thou doest euer create , sanctifie , quicken , blesse , and bestow vpon vs all these good things . Whence , your inference is , as before , that the Canon is against the reall presence . But I turne it vpon you . The words cannot be verified without a reall presence , ergo the Canon , by them , doth make for the reall presence . And the auncient Fathers who dedeclare themselues to be directlie for the reall presence , vse the same kind of speach . To beginne in S. Cyprians time , one , as auncient as he , tels vs , vsque hodie veracissimum Corpus suum creat , & sanctificat , & benedicit . till this verie day , he doth create , and sanctifie , & blesse his owne most true ( not a meere figure then , ) and most holie bodie . How so ? let the same Authour tell , how the Sacrament ( for of that the Canon speakes , ) is made , Panis iste non effigie sed natura mutatus omnipotentia verbi factus est caro . Well , but how quickned ? & sicut in persona Christi humanitas videbatur & latebat Diuinitas , ita Sacramento visibili ineffabiliter Diuina se infundit essentia . Another ; Influit oblatis vim vitae conuertens ea in veritatem propriae carnis , vt corpus vitae quasi quoddam semen viuificatiuum inueniatur in nobis . Serm. de Coena Cyp. S. Cyril . Alex. Epist. ad Calos . That bread being changed not in shape but in nature , is by the omnipotencie of the word made flesh : and as in the Person of Christ the Humanitie did appeare and the Diuinitie lie hid , so ( heere ) a Diuine Essence doth vnspeakeablie infuse it self into a visible Sacrament . He doth flow into the things offered the power of life , conuerting them into the veritie of his owne flesh : that the bodie of life might as a certaine quickning seed be found in vs . The like is in S. Chrrysostome , S. Ambrose , and others ; as you might haue learned partlie out of Gratian whom you cite , had you but read him .

Moreouer , in Scripture it self , these words haue a larger sence then that which you conceaue . a. a. Ioan. 17. Ego pro eis sanctifico meipsum . there sanctifico is offero , or sacrifico : himself being ( as the words import ) both the victime and the Priest . b. b. Psal. 101. Populus qui creabitur laudabit Dominum . c. c. Psal. 50. Cor mundum crea in me Deus . Praecipio d. d. 1. Timot . 6. tibi coram Deo qui viuificat omnia . These words , viuificat , and creabitur , haue a latitude as you see . And , since allmightie God doth not onlie giue life , but still conserue it , e. e. Hebr. 1. portans omnia verbo virtutis suae ; why may not he be said in that regard also , still to quicken ; why cannot an action of omnipotencie able to abstract accidents from the subiect still keeping them in being , and vnder them to make a succession of substances , be called ( in large sence at least ) creation ? since none but the Creatour can , in chief or as principall , produce this effect ? and he , who puts in the Sacrament the bread of life , which heauenly bread liues it self , and giues life to the receauers , why may he not be said ( in a large sence at least , ) to quicken the thinges that are before the Priest ?

And you Master Featlie , that are so strait-laced as not to suffer words to be euer vsed but in one sence , and that ( of all ) the most rigorous , what sence will you find in Scripture , where words are not , euer vsed so ? or , to forbeare that question and come neerer , how will you expound ( of bread and wine , which is your intent ) these wordes by you obiected ? Haec omnia Domine semper bona creas , sanctificas , viuificas ; and the like before cited out of the Fathers ? was your communion-bread made of nothing ? is it aliue ? did the Church in her liturgie meane to professe this ? was this the Fathers meaning ? shew me ( to vse your owne wordes , Featl . pga. 68. Master Featlie ) in what tolerable sence ( those elementes ) may be said continuallie to be created and made aliue , sith before they cannot be said not to haue beene , or to haue beene dead . Creatio est ex nihilo , Viuificatio est rei prius mortuae aut non viuae . So you , inuoluing your credit in a difficultie , out of which you will neuer extricate your self till you beleeue as we do .

But , there is a prayer ( to resume that argument for the Readers sake ) supra quae propitio & sereno vultu respicere digneris &c. True , there is indeed such a prayer : & the quae , that is in it , ( which word you catch at , ) reflects on things otherwise , and more , then you imagine . Haec quotiescumque feceritis — vnde offerimus — supra quae propitio & sereno vultu respicere digneris , & accepta habere , sicut — vt quotquot ex hac altaris participatione — repleamur per Christum — . See the like ( and withall the meaning of it , ) in the Liturgie of S. Iames , Respice in nos , & ad nostrum hoc rationabile obsequium , idque accipe vt Abel dona accepisti , — ita quoquee manibus nostris qui peccatores sumus , recipe Apocalyps , a Prophecie which thou hast beene pleased to inspire and suggest vnto one of his Disciples , wee reade that an Angel came and stood before the Altar ( the Altar of thy mercie ) d. d. Apoc. 8. with a golden censer , and that there was giuen vnto him much incense , that he should offer of the prayers of the Saints . and , that the smoke of the incense ascended from his hand before thee , ô God . And wee , though not yet Saints , be consecrated vnto thee in the blood of thy deare Sonne , wherefore let our incense , our prayers , ascend too . Iube haec perferri per manus sancti Angeli tui in sublime altare tuum in conspectu Diuinae Maiestatis tuae , vt quotquot ex hac Altaris participatione sacrosanctum filij tui corpus & sanguinem sumpserimus omni benedictione coelesti & gratia repleamur per eundem Christum Dominum nostrum . Commaund , o God , these things to be brought by the hands of thy holy Angell vnto thy holie Altar in the view of thy Diuine Maiestie , that wee , as many of vs as by this participation of the Altar shall receaue the most holy bodie and blood of thy Sonne , may be replenished with all heauenlie blessing and grace through the same Christ our Lord . So the prayer which you speak of ; in the Canon of the Masse .

I haue staid so long vpon it , that Waferer , who sent me to looke vpon the place of Gratian : will think I haue for feare , taken Sanctuarie , and dare not appeare to answer it against his Master Featlie ; who hauing ●got the Canon readie , is leuelling it against our cause : and ( since now I am defending it ) against me . The Minister by a stratagem hath gotten me iust before his Doctor , and I may not ( without losse of honour ) steppe back or runne away .

Well : stand I must . But is this thinne paper ( my poore armour ) Canon-proof ? the bullets will flie thorough & thorough ; or , I shall be blowne away out of rerum natura . If I be killed , Master Mirth , you le singe my Dirge● and laugh , a peale or two . I leaue you this writing for a remembrance of me ; and for your greater comfort , will tell you mine ; that if I die in this cause I shall neede no more Canonizing .

Your aime is ( M. Featlie ) to proue that our Sauiours flesh , is not vnder the species or accidentes of bread , after Consecration . I am directlie opposite . I saie , it is there . Giue fire to your Canon .

Featlie . Gratian hath these wordes . As the Heauenlie bread , which is Christs flesh after a sorte or manner is called Christs bodie , whereas indeed it is the Sacrament of his bodie : and the sacrifice of the flesh of Christ which is donne by the Priests hands is said to be his Passion , death , and crucifying , not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie . Thus Gratian .

Answer . And well : had it not beene your misfortune ( shall I mitigate your action by that word ? ) to corrupt the text , by omitting that substantiall and intrinsecall part of the sentence which answers directlie to that argument you made out of it ; as will appeare in the ensuing citation and discussion . In regard whereof , in the other a. a. See the Confer . pag. 68. and Feat . Relat. pag 295. Conference where you did obiect the same words ( as vnanswerable ) you broke of the citation before you came to them : which was no great argument of faire dealing in the triall of so great a cause . Was it not this which Waferer meant when he said Featlies argument was b. b. Wafer . pag. 50. mincinglie produced ? If the Canon thus corrupted , do chance anon to burst , and and the peices flie about your eares , each enough to confound you , thank your self . To the text of Gratian , so alleaged , you ioyne wordes out of the Gl●sse , which are cited aboue in the Catholicke Relation pag. 68. and shall be brought againe when their turne comes . The text must go first .

Featlie . In this allegation , vnlesse you will taxe Gratian with false quoting , there is a threefold Cable which cannot easilie be broken , first Saint Augustines authoritie , out of whom S. Prosper collecteth this sentence : secondlie S. Prospers , who in effect relates it , and approues it : and thirdlie Gratians , who inserts it into the bodie of the Canon-lawe , and citeth both for it .

Answer . We shall be held hard to it ( it seemes ) with this triple Cable . & this mustering of men together , to make good the breach which the Canon ( you presume ) will make in our Cause , makes a great noise amongst the vnlearned , who expect by this time when the mountaines will bring foorth .

Featlie . The words of Gratian and the Glosse heere are so cleere against your reall presence of Christs bodie vnder the accidentes of bread and wine , Brutum Fulmen . that neuer any Protestant spake more expreslie and directlie against it .

Answer . Implerunt cornua bombis .

Featl . pag. 62. I think I must bid you , as Master Musket did , Frame your argument out of those wordes .

Featlie . Gratian heere speakes of the bread after consecration , for before it is consecrated it is not Coelestis panis heauenlie bread , much lesse caro Christi , Christs flesh ; by your owne confession . But heere he saith this heauenlie bread is but after a sort Christs bodie and not indeed , as the opposition betwixt suo modo , after a sort , and reuera indeed , plainlie sheweth ( as if I should saie , that picture is after a sort , or in some sence , Caesars , it being indeed the true picture of Caesar ) Therefore after consecration the Sacrament is not in truth Christs bodie , but onlie in a signifying mysterie .

Answer . If you take the bumbast out of this Argument , it will be more in fashion ; though not altogether . The Sacrament consisteth ( you were told before ) of two things ; the one visible , the other inuisible : the Controuersie is not whether all this be the bodie , ( the species or shape of bread , may signifie but cannot be , a mans bodie ; ) but whether the bodie be reallie according to the substance within that accidentall shape , whether it be contained ( as the Councell speakes ) in the Sacrament . Conc. Trid. Sess. 13. Suprà , pag 182. & seqq . Suprà , pag. 73. You haue beene tould also that a thing may represent or signifie that which ( according to the substance ) is within it : and that a substance , vnder two seuerall formes , may by the one signifie it self as in the other .

The Doctours Argument out of the Canon doth touch vpon these two points , wherefore I am to see whether it doth affirme or denie them . 1. Whether the bodie be or be not in the Sacrament . 2. Whether by the Sacramentall forme be signified the naturall forme or shape as it was vpon the Crosse , the substance vnder them both being the same .

In his Minor , ( for his Argument is an ill fauoured kind of Syllogisme , ) he hath imposed : for , these words , this heauenlie bread is but after a sort Christs bodie and not indeed , ( what euer meaning they might haue ) be not in the text , seuerall peices be deceitfullie patcht together , for aduantage . That the Reader may see , and iudge , I will represent heere the Canon it self ; Wafer . p. 50. by parts , for the Doctors engine may be taken in peices ; & at leingth , because the Apologist complaines this Argument was mincinglie produced . The first part .

Hoc est quod dicimus , hoc modis omnibus adprobare contendimus , Sacrificium scilicet Ecclesiae duobus confici , duobus constàre ; visibili elementorum specie , & inuisibili D. N. I. C. carne & sanguine : Sacramento & re Sacramëti : sicut Christi persona constat & conficitur Deo & Homine , cum ipse Christus verus sit Deus & verus homo : quia omnis res illarum rerum naturam & veritatem in se continet ex quibus conficitur , conficitur autem Sacrificium Ecclesiae Sacramento & re Sacramenti , id est corpore Christi . Est igitur Sacramentum & res Sacramenti id est corpus Christi . It is this wee say , this it is which wee labour by all meanes to proue , namelie that the Sacrifice of the Church is made and doth consist of , two things , the visible species of the elements and the inuisible and blood of Christ . And this is that mincha , that cleane oblation ( as the Fathers tell vs , ) which is offered by the Church euerie where ; according as the Prophet Malachie did foretell . I come now to the second part of the Canon wherein the difficulties that might occurre about this , be dissolued , our cause more confirmed ; and yours directlie contradicted .

Caro eius ( Christi ) est quam formá panis opertam in sacramento accipimus , & sanguis cius quemsub vini specie & sapore potamus . Caro videlicet carnis , & sanguis Sacramentum est sanguinis : carne & sanguine , vtroque inuisibili , intelligibili , spirituali , significatur visibile Domini N. I. C. corpus palpabile , plenum gratia omnium virtutum , & Diuina Maiestate . His flesh it is which in the Sacrament wee receaue couered with the forme ( or species ) of bread , and his blood which wee drink vnder the species & sauour of wine . The flesh indeed is a Sacrament of the flesh , and the blood is a Sacrament of the blood . By flesh and blood both inuisible , intelligible , spirituall , is signified the visible , palpable bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ , full of the grace of all vertues & of Diuine Maiestie . You see how it saith first that our Sauiours flesh is couered in the Sacrament with the ( exteriour ) forme of bread ; & the like of his blood , which is in the forme of wine : Caro eius est quam forma panis opertam &c. with what face then could you saie that Gratians words are cleere against the reall presence of Christs bodie vnder the accidentes ( or exteriour forme ) of bread ? or , Featlie pag. 61. that this heauenlie bread ( according to the substance ) is not indeed Christs bodie , but a signe onlie ? Secondlie it saith ( which ruines vtterlie all Waferers sillie discourse against S.E. vpon this occasion ) that the flesh heere , is a Sacrament of flesh ; and the blood , a Sacrament of blood . Caro videlicet carnis & sanguis Sacramentum est sanguinis . in explication whereof it saith Thirdlie , that the inuisible and spirituall flesh which is heere couered with the exteriour forme or accidents of bread doth signifie the visible and palpable bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ and the like it is of the inuisible and spirituall blood . carne & sanguine , vtroque inuisibili , intelligibili , spirituali , significatur visible &c. Whereby wee are instructed against Featlie when he saith pag. 63. that Gratiam doth not oppose modum modo , Featlie pag. 63. the manner to the manner ( when he compares the consecrated bread to the ble bodie , ) but modum rei verae , and veritati rei ; the manner to the truth of the thing ; and ( that ) therefore in saying it is suo modo there , Featlie Ibidem . he implieth that it is not there trulie , or in the truth of the thing , visiblie or inuisiblie . for the text of Gratian doth affirme the flesh to be there inuisiblie ; couered with the forme of bread . and , that this inuisible spirituall flesh of Christ is a signe of , or doth signifie , his visible bodie ; as hath beene obserued from the wordes before cited . After which ensue those which Fealie stands vpon , being the third part of the Canon , in this tenour .

Sicut ergo Coelèstis panis qui vere Christi caro est ( the Doctour , perchaunce according to the coppie which he did vse , leaues out verè ) suo modo vocatur corpus Christi , cùm reuera sit sacramentum corporis Christi , ( how so , if it be verè corpus Christi ? it followes , and exactlie , according to the doctrine of the former part , carne inuisibili significatur visibile corpus : ) ill●us videlicet quod visibile , palpabile , mortale , in cruce suspensum ; ( this Featlie conninglie left out : whereas it is indeed the solution of his Argument . Hetherto one 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 of a comparison ; now followes another ) Vocaturque ipsa immolatio carnis quae Sacerdotis manibus fit , Christi passio mors crucifixio , non rei veritate sed significante mysterio : ( now comes the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 common to them both ; ) sic Sacramentum fidei , quod baptismus intelligitur , fides est . As therefore the heauenlie bread which indeed is the flesh of Christ , is after a sort called the bodie of Christ , whereas in truth it is the Sacrament of the bodie of Christ , I meane of that which being visible , palpable , mortall , was put vpon the Crosse ; and ( as ) that immolation of the flesh which is donne by the hands of the Priest is called the passion , death , and crucifixion , not rei veritate in veritie of the thing , but significante mysterio in a signifying mysterie : So the Sacrament of faith , Baptisme I meane , is faith . The force and life of which comparison you haue in S.E. pag. 72. Heere breeflie I obserue that this text , in the double 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 speakes of two things ; the one is the flesh of Christ in the Sacrament , which it calls panem Coelestem : the other is the act of immolation performed by the Priest , which it calls immolationem carnis . Of the first of these it saith againe , two things : the one appertaining to the quid of it in ratione rei ; telling vs that it is according to the interiour substance caro Christi : the other appertaining to it as it hath put on rationem signi ; telling vs that it is Sacramentum corporis Christi visibilis & crucifixi . Of the second also two ; the one that it is a mysticall mactation , crucifying , death , of Christ : the other , that it is not his death or crucifying in rei veritate . Vocatur immolatio carnis quae Sacerdotis manibus fit , Christ● passio non rei veritate sed significante mysterio . The two former thinges , vizt the heauenlie bread , & the act of Immolation , Featlie ( either of ignorance or of purpose ) doth confound : so to drawe vpon the one ( against the authours intention , expressed in cleare tearmes , more then once , or twice ; ) all that is auouched of the other which prooceeding , in a matter of this nature , vrged and insisted vpon in two seuerall disputations ( to decrie the reall presence of the bodie of our Sauiour in the signes , which when Luther beganne , was beleeued by all the knowne Christian Churches in the world , and is so plainlie deliuered in Scripture that the greatest Protestantes in the world were in conscience thereby confessedlie conuinced ; Luther . Melan●●ton , &c. ) and not vrged onlie , but also seuerall times printed , to the ruine of poore soules which esteeme him a great clerck ; giues vs iust occasion to complaine of it as vnworth●e of a Scholler ; and in it self vnconscionable . And to think , as Waferer doth , that he thereby proues Gratian to oppugne transsubstantiation , or , that his discours doth satisfie what S. E. had said about the text , is a signe that the iudgment or understanding power is in the man defectiue . But stay wee are to answere his interrogatorie , that will kill the cause .

Featlie . Hath Christ tWo bodies , one visible and palbable , an other inuisible ? & the ( heauenlie ) bread is trulie the one , and s● Sacrament onlie of the other ?

Answer . Not two according to the substance , the Dualitie is in the manner , it is the same bodie , which on the Crosse was visible , in the Sacrament it is inuisible , and , as hauing one of these manners of existencie , it was a signe the text saith , of it self , as in the other ; carne & sanguine vtroque inuisibili , there is the bodie in one manner of existencie , significatur visibile Domini corpus , there is the same bodie in an other manner of existencie againe , that caro quam forma panis opertam in Sacramento accipimus , & , the caro crucifixa , are in substance but one . Corpus visibile , palpabile , in cruce suspensum , and coelestis panis qui veré Christi caro est , or , as he doth otherwise also call it , caro inuisibilis intelligibilis , spiritualis ; are according to the substance , but one thing .

Had you cast your eie on that which in Gratian followes , out of S. Ierome , you had seene a further confirmation of this double manner , together with the solution of your difficultie . Dupliciter intelligitur caro Christi , & sanguis : vel spiritalis illa atque Diuina , de qua ipse ait ( caro mea verè est cibus & sanguis meus verè est potus , & nisi mand caueritis carnem meam & biberitis meum sanguinem non habebitis vitam aeternam ; ) vel caro quae crucifixa est , & sanguis qui militis effusus est lancea . The flesh and blood of Christ is vnderstood two waies : either that spirituall and Diuine , whereof he himself saith my flesh is meate indeed and my blood is drink indeed ; & , vnles you eate my flesh and drink my blood you shall not haue euerlasting life : or the flesh which was crucified , and the blood which by the soldiers launce was powred out . according to this distinction of the same flesh , secundum d●uersos modos , he doth resolue an other difficultie of videbit & non videbit , both verified in the same , being taken according to diuers manners of existing . Iuxta hanc diuisionem , & in sanctis eius ( Christi ) diuersitas carnis & sanguinis accipitur , Com. in c. 1. ad Ephes. vt alia sit caro quae visura est salutare Dei : alia caro & sanguis quae regnum non queant possidere . According to this distinction , the diuersitie of flesh and blood is taken also in the Saints : that it be one flesh which is to see the saluation of God ; another flesh and blood which cannot possesse the kingdome . How another ? how alia & alia ? secundum substantiam ? no that were not to reconcile Scripture , but to decrie Scripture , and the common Article of the Resurrection : but , alia & alia secundum modum . And , of the flesh of Christ in like manner ; that spirituall and Diuine flesh which he saith we are to eate , and the flesh which was crucified be not alia & alia secundum substantiam ; no : be they Master Featlie ? diuina quae veré cibus , and crucifixa ; be these alia & alia secundum substantiam ? you will not say they be : but alia & alia secundum modum .

When the Scripture saith , God gaue Saul another heart , the meaning is not that he tooke out that which was before , and put in place , another , substantiallie distinct ; but it was another in the manner or accidentall being and S. Augustine cont. Adamant . Cum induerit ( corpus ) in corruptionem & immortalitatem , iam non caro & sanguis , sed in corpus Coeleste mutabitur . & , de fide & symbol● . In Coelestibus nulla caro , sed corpora simplicia & lucida , quae appellat Apostolus spiritualia . a. a. S. Aug. con . Adimant . c. 12. when the bodie shall haue put on incorruption , and immortalitie , ( it shall be ) now not flesh and blood but it shall be changed into an heauenlie bodie . b. b. Idem De fide & Symb. cap 10. Credimus & carnis resurrectionem . Non tantum quia reparatur anima , quae nunc propter carnales affectiones caro nominatur : sed haec etiam visibilis caro quae naturaliter est caro , cuius nomen anima non propter naturam , sed propter affectiones carnales accepit . Haec ergo visibilis , quae caro propriè dicitur , sine dubitatione credenda est , resurgere . S. Aug. Ibidem . Si mutatis moribus dicimus hominem non esse qui fuit , si denique mutatis aetatibus ipsum corpus non dicimus esle quod fuit : quanto magis ipsum non erit , tanta conuersione mutatum vt non solum immortaliter viuat , verum etiam inuisibilem videat . S. Aug. Epist. 111. Non hoc corpus quod videtis &c. Supra . pag. 53. Vide ibi marg . Ait mod●cum et iam non videbitis me , quia eum corporaliter tunc videbant quando iturus erat ad patrem ; & eum deinceps mortalem visuri non erant , qualem cum ista loqueretur videbant . tract. 101. in Ioan. In the coelestialls , no flesh , but simple and bright bodies , which the Apostle calls spirituall . He that conceaues what is said before of the manner of defining which the b. b. Supra , pag 301. & seq. naturall Philosopher doth vse , will vnderstand this easilie . and this , heere affirmed , by these learned Fathers , according to the manner which the Scripture also doth frequent in speach , is a double confirmation of that Philosophie .

Featlie . Gratian opposeth not modum modo , but modum rei verae and veritati rei .

Answer , This is answered allrea●ie : In the first part of this 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 he doth oppose modum modo . he doth oppose the inuisible flesh , conu●red w●th the forme of bread , to the same fl●sh as it is visible : and saith that the former is a signe of the lather . Which I haue plainelie shewne by the text it self , and haue produced the words wherein this is euidentlie affirmed . In the second part of the 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 he doth oppose one action to another ; or , one manner of immolation : to another manner of immolation affirming the Consecration or act of vnbloodie immolation to be the bloodie passion , not in rei veritate , to consecrate is not to crucifie ; but significante mysterio ; as hath beene also tould you . Moreouer , the confounding of these two , thereby to conclude the flesh not to be there , in the Sacrament , according to the truth of the thing , visible or inuisiblie , ( so you speake , ) hath beene detected for à grosse corruption , repugnant to the text .

Featlie . And now hauing brandished the sword of the text of Gratian , let vs see how you can ward a blow with the scabbard , the Glosse .

Answer . The lightning of your sword was like the thundring of your Canon . Surely Doctor , it was a violent Obiection , this .

Belli ferratas portas , vectesque refregit .

Warrs iron gates it hath burst vp , and Barrs .

Featlie ex Glossa . Dicitur Corpus Christi impropriè suo modo , non rei veritate , vt sit sensus vocatur corpus Christi , id est significatur .

Answer . If Souldiers when the sword cannot pierce , nor the Canon make a breach , should giue an onset with their scabbards , what Elogium befits them , Doctour ? the scabbard too should be fit for the sword ; the commentarie should be according to the text ; or neither is good . Who told you that Deuines were to be directed in the vnderstanding of matters purelie Theologicall , by a Canon Lawier ? or , that the Author of the Glosse did fullie comprehend the text ? which ( as you haue seene , and so much he sawe too ) contradictes the fond Heresie of emptie signes , and bakers bread moreouer , the Glosse it self in plaine tearmes affirmes ( as you find cited in S. E ) that bread is transubstantiated into the bodie , Suprà , pag 75. that where before was bread and wine , there is now ( after consecration ) the accidents ( of them ) onlie , that vnder those accidents the flesh and blood ( of Christ ) doe lie hid and are couered ; and the reason ; least there might be horrour in receauing , if the shape of raw flesh and blood should appeare . And yet forsooth if wee beleeue you , the words of Gratian and the Glosse heere ( in the scrappe you cite perchance ) are so cleare against the Reall presence of Christs bodie vnder the accidentes of bread and wine , that neuer any Protestant spake more expreslie , Featl . pag. 61. as if an Atheist out that place Dixit insipiens in corde suo non est Deus , should cite for himself onlie the later part non est Deus , and then auouch that neuer Atheist did speake more expreslie . Is this your sinceritie ? is this faire proceeding in the tryall of Religion ? & , must the presse groane vnder this ? the monument of the greate Disputant must it be built vpon these pillars ? and his Statua be adorned with a garland of these flowers ? O Conscience ! ô Religion !

In the Relation set foorth by S. E. Doctor Featlie is said to haue acknowledged that Gratian did contradict himself : Pag. 70. who then can excuse this his vrging of the place againe , in a second Disputation ; and printing of it afterwards twice ; still pressing the place against the Reall presence ; once anno 1624. in diuulging one Conference ; and againe anno 1630. in the publishing of another , who can saie that in vrging these mens Authoritie he did not impugne a knowne truth ? or if he did not knowe it , if he could not vnderstand their words , what mist was there in his vnderstanding ? what ignorance , in so great a Rabbin ?

But heare his Eccho , in the Apologie . In this Section ( wherein the place of Gratian and the Glosse are discussed ) so far as Doctor Smith and his Antagonist argue , Wafer . pag 50. if you peruse the places you shall find the arguments ( though so mincinglie heere produced ) vnsatisfied , where you are forced to put a trick on Doctour Featlie , and make him confesse against Gratian , least his Lordship should be non-plust . I can not but pittie such slender pollicie . But for satisfaction concerning Gratian if you but please to reade Doctor Featlie on another occasion , ( in his Conference with M. Musket , pag. 61. &c. ) you shall finde him insteed of yeilding that Gratian contradicts himself , prooue that he oppugnes your transsubstantiation . Thus innocentlie , the godlie sincere Brother Cui nec Ara , nec —

I now returne to the wordes obiected , putting you first in minde ( which Featlie doth acknowledge was told him in the Conference ) Featl . pag. 29● that three thinges in a Sacrament are to be considered , as Diuines note ; 1. that which is Sacramentum tantùm . 2. that which is res Sacramenti tantùm . Vide Suar. 3. p. to . 3. disp 1 , Sect 3. Tria distingnūtura Theologis in Sacramentis novae legis , res tantum , &c. Et disp. 42. Sect. 1. 3. 4. Magist . in 4 d. 8. S. Tho. 3. p. q 73. a. 1. Ibidemque Cōmentatores . 3. that which is both res & Sacramentum that which is ( heere ) Sacramentum tantum , be the species of bread & wine , which are signes , but are not reallie , either , of the thinges by them signified : that which is res Sacramenti tantum , is grace which is signified by the Sacrament ( as you may know by the generall definition ) but it self not being visible , is no signe , of this S. Bernard speakes in the place cited by Waferer pag. 49. rem Sacramenti nemo percipit nisi dignus . that which is both Sacramentum and res Sacramenti , as signifying and being also signified , is the bodie of our Sauiour in the signe . According to this distinction , commonlie receaued and knowne when the Glossatour made his exposition , it was answered that he spake of that which is Sacramentum tantum , to wit the specie , which are not reallie and properlie the bodie and blood of Christ , but improperlie and significatiue onlie . to which meaning his owne words would haue directed you . Sacramentum , scilicet species visibilis , the Sacrament that is , the visible species . and , species panis sub qua latet corpus Christi , est Sacramentum carnis , the species of bread which hath vnder it our sauiours bodie , is the Sacrament of a. a. Post consecrationem sacerdotis , quae sacrificium dicitur , duo sunt ibi , scilicet Sacramentum & res Sacramenti ; quae ante consecrationem ibi non erent . Glossa . ad Can , Hoc est . and againe . Siue sacrificium hic dicatur ipsum Sacramentum , scilicet species visibilis : siue corpus Christi : siue immolatio ( so he tooke it when he said it was consecratio ) corporis Christi : non est verum quod hic dicit , scilicet quod constat ex Sacramento & re Sacramenti ; ( none of these are constituted of the two things heer especified ) sed tenentur collectiuè , pro ipso Sacramento & re Sacramenti . Ibidem . Caro , id est , species panis , sub qualatet corpus Christi , est Sacramentum carnis Christi . & sanguis , id est , species vini sub qua latet sanguis Christi , est Sacramentum sanguinis Christi , Ibidem . Coelestis panis , id est , coeleste Sacramentum quod veré repraesentat Ch●isti carnem , dicitur corpus Christi , sed improprié . Ibidem , Caro Christi potest intelligi secundum illam formam & quantitatem quam habuit in cruce : vel secundum quant tatem corporis glorificati quod spirituale videtur , quod nulli sensui subiacet . Idem , ad Can. Dupliciter . Non hoc corpus manducaturi estis , id est , non in eadem specie , vel grossitie , vel repraesentatione , sed in Sacramento . Idem , ad Can. Prima . Licet enim vbique sit etiam in altari quolibet in vera forma quam de Virgine sumpsit ; non tamen subiicitur corporeis sensibus . Ibidem . Vide quae de transubstantiatione tradit , pag 75. flesh .

That he spake of this exteriour shape , and not of the thing within it , it is yet further manifest by that which hath beene cited out of him touching the reall existence of the bodie , vnder that forme ; and the turning of bread into it . See the Conference pag. 75.

An vnderstanding Reader , by this which hath beene said , will be able himself to finde the meaning of b. b. Iust. Dixit ex Antiquis non nemo si recte memini , Christum suscepisse adoptionem filiorum , numquid Haereseos illum damnasses . Herm. Minimé verò . crede rem enim propterea dixisse quod suscepetit adoptionis Sacramentum ; baptismum puta Iust Potestne Sacramentum adoptionis , adoptio nuncupari ? Herm Opinor : nam signum illius est . Vnde etiam Sacramentum corporis , corpus appellatur . Iust. Eri●igitur Sacramentum adoptionis , adoptio proptié , si par in eo sit vtriusque ratio ; Sacramentum enim corporis , proprié corpus est . Herm. Continere fateor . at esse , qui probas ? an fortè de toto praedicatur pars ; idemque vnum horum quod alterum est veré & proprié ? Iust. Dominus ipse Sacramentum corpus suum vocauit . Herm. Vocauit quia continet ; contentum enim demonstrat pronomen quod est in operatorio Domini sermone , formam vocas , quae sic videtur exponenda , Hoc , nempe contentum sub hac panis forma visibili , est corpus meum : at non proptereà Sacramentum corpus suum vocauit quod omne sit corpus verè & proprié . quod en im sacramentum tantùm , vel quam conspicis figur● panis , non est proprié corpus hominis . Nec de toto composito ( quod ex corpore signo que siue specie ) pars affirmatur . Iust. Negas igitur panem corpus esse proptié , panem inquam consecratum ? Herm. Panem cui proximè competit Sacramenti ratio , nego proprié corpus esse : fateor tamen continere corpus , Christi inquam : quod cum sit inuisibile , non totum Sacramentum est . Apertius , & more tuo . Vox panis , pro composito supponi potest : vel pro specie ; vel pro contento . Sumendo pro contento , verum est quod a●s ; id enim Dominus Iesus disertè affi●mauit dicens , hoc est corpus meum quod pro vobis tradetur , Apostolo teste , 1. Cor. 11. panis quem ego dabo cato mea est . Ioa. 6 sumendo pro specie , fateris ipse non esse verum , proprié . & hae quidem velutï partes totius compositi , pro quo si nomen sumatur ( sunt autem voces earum quae sunt in anima passionum notae ) neutram poteris de illo partem propriè & seorsum affirmare . Iust. Id quidem verum , de toto partem non affirmar● propriè , distinguuntur enim . Ex Aduersarijs M. Faunouallensis 3. p. 75. paragraphe 3 See the Confession of Berengarius , aboue pag. 328. Profiteor panem post consecrationem non solum Sacramentum sed etiam verum corpus Christi esse The testimonie of Lanfranc . pag. 337. Sententia quae enunciat , panis & vinum altaris solummodo sunt verum Christi corpus & sanguis , nullius hominum est The words of the Canon , pag. 405. Duobus constare , visibili elementorum specie , & inuisibili carne — S. Irenaent pag. 330. Eucharistia duabus rebus constans , terrena & coelesti . De solo vero Corpore non est verum quod constet istis duobus : quod non solum &c , vt in Confess● sed neque de speciebus solis . Dico Species consecratas esse Eucharistiae Sacramentum , seu ad illius constitutionem intrinsecé & essentialiter pertinere . Suarez 3 p. t , 3. Disp. 42. sect 1. Dicendum est Eucharistiam non esse solas species Sacramentales , sed compositum ex corpore & speciebus , seu corpus Domini sub specie bus contentum : atque ade O corpus & sanguinem Christi intrinsecè & in recto pertinere ad constitutionem huius Sacramenti , Idem , Sect. 3. vbi pro hac sententia citat S Tho , Bonan . Caiet . aliosque Obserue also that it is one thing to interprete fauourablie an obscure speach ( as that of our Sauiours adoption , ) in behalf of him that knewe no Church-decree speaking of it ; and this before the learned ; producing withall like speaches that haue to their knowledge a good and true sence , ( though similies hold not in all points , he that compares you with a lion meanes not to saie you are a beast or irrational though that be essent●all to him , & abstrahentium Ph●losophers tells vs non est mendacium , ) and another thing , to catechize the common people , or teach ones owne tenet . Lastly note that it is one thing to saie signum continet , illud cuius est signum , and another thing to saie that ex ratione signi hoc habet , & forget not that in names ●he●e is analogie . Vide Aristotelem in Praed. de relatione Dom. & Catet . de significatione nominis concreti , others ( if any be obiected ) that vse the like speaches : & the better , if he beare in minde the varietie of supposition that happens in these words , Vide Suar. 3. p. to . 3. disp. 42. sect. 4. § Secundo colligitur . Eucharistia , Sacramentum , Panis consecratus . you shal finde them taken sometimes pro corpore , connotando species continentes : Sometimes pro speciebus , connotando corpus contentum : sometimes pro toto composito , for the whole consisting of the bodie and the species , both . According to which diuersitie of acception , such propositions as ouer hastie or vnlearned men think opposite , will be found to containe a good sence .

Hauing freed the Canon from you M. Featlie , and got possession of it againe , I will turne it against your Apologist to driue away that sillie troope of Arguments which he hath brought into this Section . You remember the charge that was in it . This in substance : ● in the Sacrifice of the Church two thinges , one the species of the elementes , and this visible ; the other , the inuisible bodie of our Lord . 2. the inuisible thing , the flesh , is couered with the visible . 3. the flesh is a Sacrament of the flesh . 4 the inuisible and spirituall flesh in the Sacrament , doth signifie the visible & palpable bodie which was vpon the crosse . 5. the Heauenlie bread , which is indeed ( according to the substance ) flesh ; is the sacred signe or Sacrament of the visible mortall bodie . 6. the act of immolation performed by the Priest is called the passion of Christ , non rei veritate sed significante mysterio . The Reader remembers all this . I request him also to reflect vpon the discourse of S. E. pag. 71 which Master Waferer with all his Arts doth impugne , and I am now defending , the substance of his Argumentes ( for his words do not merit the transcribing ) is without order ( for he hath none at all ) as followeth .

Waferer . S. Augustine saith Epist. 23. Secundum quemdam modum Sacramentum corporis Christi corpus Christi est .

Answer . That which is Sacramentum tantùm , Aliqui putabant species solas esse Sacramentum . Vide Suarez disp. 42. 2. is secundum quendam modum ( to wit significatiue ) Corpus Christi : that which is res & Sacramentum , is corpus Christi ; or caro spiritualis , veré . and the same , is corpus Christi visibile vt visibile secundum quendam modum ; to wit representatiue . the Canon , sicut ergo &c. illius quod visibile &c.

Waferer . The same thing cannot represent it self , for there is similitude betwixt the representing and the represented , which similitude cannot be in case it be the same thing .

Answer . Why not ? if it be ( as our Sauiours bodie is ) in diuers exteriour formes or shapes at once ? why may it not by the one represent it self as existent in the other ? the similitude ( such as it is ) is not founded , as you conceaue , in the substance preciselie , wherefore they be not the same in that verie respect and point , and was aboue also answered Birckbeck pag 180. but in the exteriour shapes or formes , which be not heere the same , in the representing , and the represented ▪ Th● Canon . Carne inuis●bili significat●● visibile Domini corpus .

Waferer . It is not onlie without ground●th the Gospell , but also false , to saie ●he same bodie was in diuerse formes or shapes at once .

Answer . Our Sauiours bodie was in the shape of bread , inuisiblie . This in my hand is my bodie . and it was visiblie sitting at the table at the same time ; h● said take , eate , this is &c. The Cànon . Carne inuisibi●i , intelligibili , spirituali , significatur corpus Domini visibile , palpabile . The Quod then , is the same .

Waferer . If one and the same thing can be in seuerall formes , one forme may represent the other , but the thing represents not it self .

Answer . had your opposition beene to purpose you should haue put it thus , but the thing by the one cannot represent it self as in the other , which was the proposition you vndertooke to disprooue . I doubt whether your eies be fellowes , you mistake so oft , that which is before them ; and , it seemes , if I may speak according to your Philosophie , that either they be meere accidents , or , the one is not like vnto the other . For in both , is , ( am I not mistaken ? ) the same forme or substance . S. P●ete fishing , was a figure of S. Peeter preaching . What ? did accidents onlie fish ? & other accidents preach ? 〈◊〉 was the fisher a figure of the preacher ● Peter in one action , of himself , as in the other ? this matter is allreadie dispacht , pag. 185. & seqq . where you shall finde an answer to your discourse about the Manna . The Canon . Caro carnis & sanguis Sacramentum est sanguinis .

Waferer . The bodie is not in the Sacrament in it's proper shape , Sed & Christus post resurrect●onem su●m diuersa actione diuersa que temporum ratione , sui ipsius typum gessit & figuram . Vt enim a●t Augustinus ; apparens duobus Discipulis &c Alger de Sacram. l. 1 c 18. Ille contendat Christum mentitum esse singendo , qui negat eum quod signifie ●ui● impleuisle faciend● S. Aug. de mend . ●on , Cons c 13. ad illud , sinxit se longius tre . longius namque profectus super omnes coelos , &c. Ibid. how then can the Sacrament represent it as so existent .

Answer . The shape represented is the visible shape and forme our Sauiour had . The Canon . Carne inuisibili significatur visibile corpus . and againe , Sacramentum est corporis , illius videlicet quod visibile . Neither is this representation , vniuocall ; or the relation , naturall to the species , as you suppose : but it is founded in the Diuine action or institution , which serues it self of that analogie which the matter doth afford . Reade your owne wordes pag. 60. Most certaine it is that the sacramentall signes and actions are the memoriall & figure of no other bodie then that of our Sauiour on the Crosse .

Your Questions about the meaning of the word hoc , into which you would haue the whole proposition ( ô worthie man to write Diuinitie ! ) to be transubstantiated , will finde an answer in the next Section , though you must not expect that I repeate there againe in terminis , so choise a peece of M. Mirth . No more with Gratian for this time .

Waferer . The species ( you now dispute against that which was answered to the wordes of the Glosse ) cannot be called Coeleste Sacramentum in regard of their reference ( the wordes of S. E. ) to our Sauiours bodie which they couer .

Answer . Why so ?

Waferer . Nothing is a sacrament in respect of couering .

Answer . That which inuisiblie containes , and exhibites to vs , not onlie grace , but the Authour of grace , may therefore well be called a Sacrament . such couering well deserues the name ; though couers , be not all , Sacramentes . Howbeit you mistake S. E. who told you the reference to the bodie inclosed was enough to draw vpon it this title Coeleste , Heauenlie . The sacred bodie of our Sauiour is within the species : whence it comes that the one hath rationem contenti , the other continentis : which notions are conceaued , you know , relatiue , and , since a relation is specified by the terminus , that relation is not naturall which is terminated vnto , and reciprocated with , that which is aboue nature . To inquire for an action making immediatlie these r●ferences , were needles . Euen in those that are naturall the Philosopher lookes for no other action then that which makes the foundation , which he calls the fundamentum . where one thing containes another , the reference followes of it self . That by the consecration the bodie is put within the species , the Gloss● ( whose Authoritie you are againe scanning ) told you , and by the words of Institution it is manifest . Suprà pag. 75 Matth 26. The Canon . Caro eius est quam forma panis opertam accipimus .

But why should you make anie difficultie about the title of sacred and heauenlie , drawne vpon the species in a sence equiuocall , by reasons of the reference ? When wee vrge against you , the Fathers , to proue that our Sauiour in the Eucharist is to be reuerenced and adored , then you tell vs that the worship is exhibited to the formes because they be sacred ; and you can fetch examples from Baptisme : how then comes it to passe that whilst you dispute against vs , The words Reuer●nce , Honour , & Adoration simplie in themselues , without the adiunct and additament Diuine , cannot conclude the Diuine woship proper to God . — Vnder the degree of Diuine worship , wee our selues yeild as much to the Eucharist , as S. Augustine did to baptisme when he said ( epist. 164 ) wee reuerence baptisme wheresoeuer it is , Morton . of the Masse l 7 c 2 , sec. 3 , Diuine Nazianzene teaceth that the Angels are present at baptisme , and do magnifie or Honour it with their presence and obseruance , Idem Sect 2. Were the Crucifix as glorious as either art could fashion — it is but a meere signe inuented by man ; and th●refore how infinitely more honorable in all Christian estimation must a Sacramentall signe be , wh●ch onlie the God of heauen and earth could insitute ? Idem li. 4. c. 2. Sect 3 in the Challeng . Reuerence is a due respect had vnto things or persons , according to the good qualities that is in them , this is either inward , or outward , the inward is our estimation of them , according to their conditions and properties : the outward is our open expression of our said estimation , whether by words or acts , their inward &c. Idem . l. 7. c. 9. See the words of D. Androes cited p. 373. and what both of them say to Theodoret , & adorantur ( symbola ) vt quae illa sint quae creduntur , whereof Andr , in his Op. posth . and Mort l. 7. c. 2 and cease to declaime against vs for the relatiue honour wee giue to reliques and other holy things : obseruing withall that they both come short of Theodoret , adorantur vt quae illa sint . they loose their sanctitie ? But see ! your braines turne about , and you will bestow the same title vpon bread and wine ; and that , ( the thing which iust now you disliked , ) in regard of reference to flesh & blood : Take my opinion ( say you ) that meere accidents can neither properlie nor improperlie be called Coeleste Sacramentum in regard of their reference to our Sauiours bodie which they couer , Wafer . pag 57. but bread and wine may be so called , ( and why ? ) in regard of their mysterious vse and signification , ( how so ? ) the reference vnto that Coelestiall foode which they are then made instrumentes to conuay vnto vs , giues them that denomination . So you .

The seuerall comparisons of the Sacramentall species comes heere too , into the Ministers head , and troubles him : so many relations , in one thing ; to the bodie visible existent on the crosse , to the bodie inuisible contained within , and to the grace which ( being a Sacrament ) it doth also relate vnto . Three relations , in one thing ; this makes him sweate , with labour to conceaue it . But there is one thing , your owne self Master Waferer , wherin there be more then thirtie , to your Father , to your brothers , to the communitie whereof you are a part , to your ( alas ! poore ) flocke , to your mother Vniuersitie , to your masters there , to your seruant , what spend I time to reckon ? as many senses , and powers , & partes ; as manie seuerall accidentes , and qualites , and habits , as you haue ; as manie seuerall vertues as are in you , ( but I must not found on them least my number proue to short ; ) as manie seuerall comparisons as you haue to bodies , ( I omit all other thinges which would make the number more then double ) liuing or not liuing , celestiall or terrestriall , greater or lesse , then you ; so manie relations you Master Waferer , haue . Number them , if you can ; a●d you shall finde for euerie one that I promised , a thousand , do you sweate vnder the burden ?

You told vs but a while agoe that bread and wine haue a reference to the bodie and blood of Christ ; Wafer . pag. 34. and it is your common tenet and the great mysterie which you do mngnifie and extoll as a thing aboue the capacitie and conceipt of Christian men though neuer so learned : yet , least you want an Aduersarie , you pleade against this also now your owne self . There is , saie you , a relation inter signum and signatum , which relation cannot be founded in the colour of bread , Wafer . pag 58 , because no relation is founded in qualitie , but relatio similitudininis , now the colour of flesh and bread is not a like , and so there can be no relation of similitude betweene them . and so on you go to conclude that the relation which wee admit is no where but in a Iesuites doting head . See your owne k●kerm . of the institution of signes . Was it not you ●hat obiected out of Tertull. and the Glosse , the word representat ? and are not you the men would haue the Sacrament to be a signe ? which if it were so , his condition were yet better then yours ; for he hath within the consecrated species that which is indeed heauenlie , the best thing ( to speake with S. Chrysostome , ) that is in all the world : whereas your Sacrament is reallie nothing els but bakers bread , with the relation of a signe , which relation ( your owne argument comes back vpon you ) is not founded in the colour nor in the substance of bread , flesh and bread are not alike , but onlie in the supposed institution , which kind of relations being not reall , giue me leaue to conclude in your Logick , yet more ciuillie , that , it is no where but in the sacred pia mater of a Catharist .

Waferer . I haue four reasons why I dislike your opinion which defends meere accidents to be called a Sacrament .

Answer . you are content that a peece of bread , wherein there is no thing els but bread , the rest being in your head onlie , be called a Sacrament ? why then may not those species be so called which do couer and infold that great mysterie of pietie which was manifested in the flesh , iustified in spirit , appeared to Angels , and was preached vnto Nations ? if the price of our Redemption , the Mediatour betwixt God and man , the holie of holies , if Deus absconditus be within those species , withdrawne from our sight , and they not onlie signifie , but exhibite him to the receauer , why may they not be called a Sacrament ?

Waferer : They do not signifie by institution .

Answer . That institution which brings in , the bodie , vnder them , doth also make them to containe it . so comes relatio continentis . Could a man put more wit into your head ,

In ad aliquid non est morus ; Contingit enim altero mutato , verum esse alterum , nihil mutans : quare secundum accidens , motus horum est . Arist. 5 Phy●● tex. 10 ,

Motus non est per se in ad aliquid , sed solum per accidens . S. Th. ibidem .

the relation would follow without other trouble . When your meate is in your bellie who makes the relation ? when , how , by what meanes ? looke on Aristotle 5. Physicorum cap. 3.

Waferer . the pronounce hoc in the words of Consecration , doth not signifie these accidentes , therefore these accidents cannot get a relation by vertue of the words of Consecration .

Answer . He that fills a cup or chalice doth not make it , yet the relatio continentis ad rem contentam , followes vpon that his action , his action brings wine into the cup ; and consecration brings our Sauiours bodie into the forme of bread : which donne , the relations be not wanting .

Waferer . The bodie is not produced by consecration , nor the species , therefore the relation of one of these to the other , followes not vpon the consecration .

Answer . Whether the bodie be produced or be not produced by consecration , is not the matter heere disputed ; but whether it be present . Neither would your argument conclude if wee supposed your antecedent to be whollie true . When you fill a chalice , you neither produce the cup , nor the wine ; yet the relation of continencie doth follow , and so doth it when you fill a place , though you produce not your self that are in it .

Waferer . Relations following vpon actions are onlie betweene the agent or efficient and the effect or thing it makes ,

Answer . You see this to be false in the example before specified , could not you and I be neerer one to the other vnles the one of vs be made againe ? or is the Sunne made a new as oft as it is vnder a new signe ? the moone perhaps you will saie is , because there be new moones .

Thus farre concerning the four arguments of your dislike , Wafer . p. 61. which you conclude with this iyngling clinch , that becomes your cap well , So much ( mend that word much , and put so little ; you must not commend your self , ) for Doctor Featlies Illation against your Relation .

One thing more I must note ( before wee leaue this Section ) that , whereas in it you haue shewed your self much offended with S. E. for saying the species were also signa corporis Christi praesentis , your conscience would not let you make an end before you had granted it , in these words , Wafer pag 62. I le graunt you that the outward signes are , signa corporis praesentis , signes of the bodie present after consecration , yet to shew your self still replenished with the spirit of contradiction , you tell vs you denie that it is there after the manner wee define , how then M. Waferer ? is it obiectiue onlie ? Ibidem . as the thing beleeued is said to be in the beleeuer ; or as the men you looke vpon , are in your eie ; or as the thing you loue is thereby said to be in you or you rather in it ? heare a mysterie . T is not corporallie but mysticallie and Sacramentallie , Wafer . Ibidem . and yet so as besides the intellectuall presence ( by faith and loue ) there is also a reall and exhibitiue presence ( of the bodie , I suppose , ) in respect of donation on Gods part and reception on mans part . But what it this , great Apollo ? Is the bodie , ( antecedentlie to the effectes which follow the reception ) reallie exhibited and reallie receaued more then intellectuallie ? do men , with their bodilie mouthes , receaue heere , that which is in heauen onlie , no neerer ?

Quid tanto dignum feret hic promissor hiatu ?

Your , Master , Caluin , hath lead you it seemes into the clowds , to mount there , for a banck is to low for you . Non solum beneficiorum Christi significationem habemus in Coena ; sed substantiué participes , in vnam cum eo vitam coalescimus , and , Cited in Morton pag 151. Ergo in Coena miraculum agnoscimus , quod & naturae fines & sensus nostri modum exsuperat : Quod Christi caro nobis fit communis & nobis in alimentum datur . Wee haue in the Supper not a signification of the benefits onlie , but being made substantiallie participant , wee do become one life with him . Wherefore wee acknowledge in the Supper a miracle , that transcends the bounds of nature , and compasse of our reason , to wit , that the flesh of Christ is made to vs commo● , and giuen vs for our nourishment . So hee . Now Waferer , mount you , though wee heard you once alreadie . 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Euerie Punie can tell you that though bread seeme onlie bread to the eie , Wafer pag. 34. and in substance be nothing els , yet in it's spirituall vse and signification , it 's the bodie of our Sauiour , ( this your Punies you saie , know , what is there in it more ; hark and learne , ) not that Christs bodie is present vnder the accidentall formes of the elementes though it be therewith sprituallie And what hath Morton more then bread , with certaine references which be not reall ? a signe , a seale , an instrument ; what answers heere to these three names , à parte rei , more then bread ? eaten , ( this were Papistrie , take heede of it ; but , what or how then ? ) This I confesse to be a Mysterie : but if you demaund what it is ; He answer you as Octauius did Caecilius when he did expect to heare him describe what God was , Nobis ad intellectum pectus augustum est , & ideo sic Deum digne aestimamus dum inaestimabilem dicimus &c. so if you expect to heare exactlie what this mysterie is , I answer , it is a mysterie , and if I could perfectlie disclose it's secretes and shew you what it were , then t were no mysterie . So then , besides the benefit of grace which is the effect of due receauing , and besides the intellectuall presence which is by faith , those that will , must beleeue a mysterie , aboue mans apprehension , vnexplicable , incomprehensible . Will you now see the mouse ? The bread is a signe of our Sauiours bodie ; and the communicants take it in their hands ; S Hier. Epist. ad Ctes . and eate it with their moutheS . Ecclesiae victoria est , vos aperiè dicere quod fentitis .

The Fift obiection was that Hoc stands for bread , because the Fathers , sometimes call the Sacrament by that name , and the pronoune relates to nothing els . The Answer was that Hoc , ( whose signification of it self is confused ) relates vnto the thing which is vnder the species when the forme is whollie vttered ; and that this thing is Heauenlie bread and by the Fathers so called . Solemne ost istis nebulonibus ( so the modest man calls the Catholike Deuines ) quicquid in Patribus vitiosum est corradere , &c. cum ergo obijciunt locum Malachiae de Missae Sacrificio ab Irenaeo exponi , oblationem quoque Melchisedech sic tractari ab Athanasio , Ambrosio , Augustino , Arnobio , breuiter responsum sit eosdem illos Scriptores alibi quoque panem interpretari corpus Christi ; sed ita ridiculè vt dissentire nos cogat ratio &c. Caluin . l. de vera Eccles. Reform . p. 389.

In this Section ( as appeares by the Synopsis which Waferer himself sets before it , ) be many thinges both impertinent to the Argument ( which was of the signification of the word Hoc ; ) and without order , packt together . As. 1. Of the sixt chapter of Saint Iohn , whether it speakes of the Sacrament , which Question he concludes negatiuè , so cashcering one of his owne Doctors Arguments . 2. Of transubstantiation . where he would haue the Reader know from him , yes , that the Fathers speake hyperbolicallie , when they saie bread is changed by the power of omnipotence not in shape but in nature , that the nature it self is changed ; that it is transelemented . And hauing said , for explication of those places , that in transelementation , the materia prima ( which is an element or principle of the thing ; aswell as the forme ) doth remaine ; he tells vs , the Fathers meane a change in office . Your greatest Protestantish polemicks come in fine to the same . Expectu eadem a summmo m●●●moque , as if that office ( to represent or signifie the flesh of Christ , ) came in place of the nature or forme of bread : or that , a substantiall forme , or element , were turned into an ens rationis , which is in a Ministers emptie braine . 3. Of adoration . where he would ridiculouslie perswade the Reader that the Councel of Trent will haue latria bestowed vpon meere accidentes for being ( Sacramentum tantum ) sacred and Sacramentall signes onlie : as if the Church esteemed that a motiue of Diuine and highest worship . 4. Of Omnipotencie , where he professeth not to meddle with Gods absolute power , and yet denies things which we maintaine to be donne onlie by that power . 5. Of the Incarnation . where he saith that , since our Sauiours manhood is inseparablie vnited to his Diuinitie in that sence it may be said to be euerie where present to it . and that the vnion of our Sauiours manhood to the Deitie is extended as far as ( th● ) Deitie . 6. Of miracles . Where he saith that , that which is onlie spirituall ( he meanes inuisible , such as the changes made in the elements bread and wine , by consecration , or by the Sacraments , in our soules ; or by God in his Saincts : ) is wrought no where but in the mind . These effects , and other spirituall created things , S. Hier. ad Ctes . all , ( if this tenet hold , ) are imaginarie . Non necesse habet conuinci , quod sua statim professione blasphemum est . I spare paper , to some other , better purpose : what neede I spend it ? Ibidem . Sententias vestras prodidisse , superasse est .

This Euripus homo , Wauerer , in his discourse , doth saie and vnsaie ; and interprete himself ( when some bodie it seemes warned him of his grosse errours against the Common Creede ) no better in effect then , if hauing said it is ; I should adde for explication , that is , Quo teneas vultus mutaintē protea nodu ? it is not : wanting discretion to leaue out , what he had not wit enough to mend .

The Obiections which he brings , such as he picks heere and there out of others , he thrusts together in a bundle , without order , like sticks in a fagot ; which if it were caried to Carfox , and set on fire , would illuminate the four quarters of the Vniuersitie . Will you heare some recited ; and obserue in him whilst from his extaticall throne or pulpit he scatters Oracles to sanctifie the attentiue eares of astonished Pupils , an example of sweete , ingenuous , faire , ciuill , gracious comportment .

Credite me vobis folium recitare —

Whist ! he speakes .

Apologist .

let me see what you would haue this bread in the Sacrament to be . Such ( say you ) as whereunto the Diuine essence doth ineffablie power it self , euen as in Christ vnder humane nature the Diuinitie lay bid . And finallie such bread , of which our Sauiour saith it is my flesh for the life of the world . O most insufferable dotage ! First because the blasphemous comparison of putting Christ so in the bread shaps , as his Diuinitie was in his humanitie , as if he were personallie vnited to them as he was to the humane nature . 2. you would against sense as well as the condition of a Sacrament make an inuisible thing namelie Christ , inuisible vnder the accidens of bread to be a signe of a visible thing namelie of Christ visible on the Crosse , and so make either two Christs , or els the self same bodie to be at the same time both eating and eaten , visible and inuisible .

Censure .

Who bolder then blind bayard ? who more furious in charging men with errour and dotage , then those who be most ignorant , and haue least wit ? I told him before of his temeritie , but the Ethiopian will not change his skinne , nor the Leopard depose his spots . The Holie Ghost saies of Heretickes , ( and wee finde the experience of it ) that they are a. a. 2. Tim. 3. elati , superbi , criminatores , proterui , tumidi , b. b. Epist. Iust . Hi autem ( the scriptures saies of them ) quaecumque quidem ignorant , blasphemant . c. c. 2. Tim. 3. As Iannes and Mambres withstood Moyses , so do these also resist the truth , men of corrupt minds , reprobate concerning the faith ; but they shall proceede no further ; for their follie shall be manifest to all ; as the others was .

It is a peece of stupid ignorance ( in a writer of polemicall bookes ) to think , and an vnsufferable calumnie it were to report , that wee beleeue two Christ ; or that he whom wee beleeue , is vnited hypostaticè personallie to the bread shapes . To iustifie that wee saie , by you recited and so deeplie charged , I neede do no more but pray the Authours themselues to come foorth , and againe speake it ouer before your face . When you see parties , peraduenture you will blush . 1 Cor. 11. Iesus Christ our Redeemer , God and man . Take , and eate , this ( in the forme of bread ) is my bodie which is broken , Ioan. 6. giuen , for you . The bread which I will giue is my flesh for the life of the world . my flesh is meate indeed &c. the Comment you shall haue anon , out of S. Ierom. The Authour of the Sermons in Saint Cyprian , and of the same age , Motton pag. 25. Serm. de Coena . whom all know ( your Patron sayes ) to be a Catholicke Father . That bread being changed not in shape but in nature , is by the omnipotencie of the Word made flesh . These two places , the one out of S. Iohn , the other out of the Sermon that is in S. Cyprian , Waferer tooke notice of : and in his waie there were more ; Cyrill . Catech. 4. Canon Hoc est , as that of S. Cyrill , That which appeares breade , is not bread ; but the bodie . and of the Canon taken out of S. Augustine by S. Prosper . It is the the flesh of Christ which wee receaue couered with the forme of bread . and , by the flesh and blood , Ibidem . both inuisible , intelligible , spirituall , is signified the visible , palpable bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ . and in Saint Ierome . Hieron . Comment. in 1 ad Ephes. ad Paulum & Eustoch . Idem in Ep. ad Hedib . q. 2. The flesh and blood of Christ is vnderstood two waies : either that spirituall and Diuine , whereof himself saith My flesh is meate indeede &c. ( marke this Comment Master Waferer , ) or the flesh that was crucified . and ; Our Lord Iesus , he the guest , and the feast ; he the eater , and the thing eaten .

But staie ! what is all this ? a mans bodie , our Sauiours , in bread shape ; flesh , inuisible , vnder the forme of bread . an inuisible thing vnder accidents the signe of a visible thing vpon the Crosse . the same bodie at the same time eating and eaten , visible and inuisible .

Apologist .

O insufferable dotage !

Censure .

And this comparison too a. a. Serm. de Coen . in Cypr. As in the person of Christ , the humanitie did appeare , and the Diuinitie lie bid : so ( heere in the Eucharist ) a Diuine essence doth vnspeakablie power it self into a visible Sacrament . What is your opinion of this ?

Apologist .

O blasphemous comparison !

Censure .

Com. in in Ioan. l. 4. c. 11. The malignant minde ( S. Cyrill saith ) presentlie with arrogance reiects all as friuolous and false whateuer it vnderstands not , yeilding to none , and thinking nothing to be aboue it self . Belike some Spirit hath inspired this man , and on the suddaine giuen vs a Diuine , that can teach without learning : the verie same which taught Luther to declaime against the Masse . But , Master Waferer , bethink your self ; is this language for a Master of Art but of yesterdaie , to giue a graue Prelate , and a man of knowne learning ? and then also , when he speakes in the verie words of Antiquitie , of holie Fathers , of Iesus Christ ? Is this the modestie such a stripling should haue had , the learning which you promised , the charitie which you pretend ? you , who do lament the Schismes of the Church , and are continuallie in thanksgiuing for the great light you see wherein you haue discouered how the solid and substantiall nature of bread is transelemented into a feigned reference . is this the vindicating of your Churches cause , and the cleering of your Doctor , it's abbetter ? O the Pedanticall insolencie ! O most insolent arrogancie of most arrogant Apostacie .

Of the first apostatizing Spirits it is said in Sripture , their pride ascendeth euer . They would haue thrones , forsooth , ( each one , for they are all of one mind , ) in the sides of the North : from whence , without submitting themselues to any , they might controwle , all . and into the same region high pride hath raised this Apol. making her self this chaire ; and receauing him , in her lap . There he sits , and controwles , Antiquitie . This it is when supercilious Pedants come from As in praesenti , to print books and giue Diuines lessons in Diuinitie .

Apologist .

Not to trouble my self or my Reader with the repetition of all those infinite solecismes which this opinion includes : take notice of this , that it distroies the definition of an Indiuiduum , & makes Christs indiuiduall bodie not to be indiuiduall . Indiuiduum according to logick is quod est indiuisum in se & diuisum ab alijs omnibus , as Socrates is distinguished from Plato &c. now I saie this your tenet of there all presence against this definition diuide ; an indiuiduall bodie from it self , it diuides Christ ac Paris from Christ in the Sacrament at Rome .

Censure .

He hath ( if you beleeue him ) an infinite companie of reasons ; but , least he trouble the Reader , or himselfe , ( lucidum interuallum , ) with ranging them all against vs , he picks out the stoutest , ( his Thersites , Achilles I should haue said , ) and thrusting him into the field , bids vs take notice of him . Sure , it is a goodlie reason . Limmes it hath , some ; but it wants sinewes . like therefore to be some tough champion . Hath it the forme and shape of a good Argument ? no : but it hath a head , the maior proposition . O quale caput ! sed cerebrum where ? non habet .

The maior might haue in it a good sence ; and hath so , when others vse it : when it is vnderstood of intrinsecall indiuision : but extrinsecall , is not that which doth constitute ; or the want of it that which takes awaye , an indiuiduum : now the Minister vnderstands it of this later , this extrinsecall indiuision , as will presentlie appeare by his discourse . Thus the Maior . The Minor is of no great weight neither ; for it stands vpon his breath . Now a. a. Mirths words . I saie this your tenet against this definition diuides an indiuiduall bodie from it self , it it diuides Christ at Paris from Christ in the Sacrament at Rome . You saie so well . Your Conclusion ? let the Reader himself make it if he can . Supprimit Orator —

But is there no proppe for the Minor ? if you cease to saie it , what shall become of it then ? yes ; wee shall haue something to supporte it .

Apologist .

For , there being distance & diuersitie of place , it cannot be the same numericall bodie .

Censure .

Did I not tell before , that he meant extrinsecall indiuision ? Place , is extrinsecall to a bodie . whether you be in Oxford or Odiham , you be the same indiuiduum still , though the place be distinct . Oxford is not Odiham ; but M , Waferer in Odiham is the same Master Waferer that was at Oxford . the Minister is the Master of Art ; is he not Master Mirth ? And a Master of Art might haue knowne further , that superuenient vbications destroie not that indiuiduation which essentiallie they suppose . Your substantiall indiuiduation , that whereby you are substantiallie distinct from other men , ( which is no accident of Master Waferer , nor can be remooued from him as much as in your mind , without taking him away too ; ) that substantiall indiuiduation , is essentiallie presupposed by euerie particular intrinsecall vbication receaued in you , as an accident in it's subiect , and is not changed by it , by the superuenient vbication : if it were , the same thing could not bee as much as successiuelie in seuerall places , as oft as you changed places so oft you should be an other man . One borne , another be caried to Church to be Christned , a third brought home to suck the mother , and ( which yet would trouble you worse ) another should take the benefice , which was giuen you ; because you tooke the degree , which an other ( by the name of Waferer too ) a a I will not sweare that . deserued .

Apologist .

I praie what other diuision can there be of materiall substances , but by bounds of place ?

Censure .

Poore man ! and what If I should come into your place and you into mine , should I then be you , and you be that indiuiduum which I am ? this were as easie , as it is a strange transubstantiation . But I know you will denie it to be possible ; least by this meanes you be vnawares made a Papist . I thought , ( this it is not to be so wise as you , ) that your neighbour and you were substantiallie distinguished , that his substance was not yours , nor your substance his . by something which is in you substantiall , you are distinguished from a stock ; and by something which is in you substantiall , you are distinguished from an asse ; and by something which is in you substantiall , you are distinguished from your neighbour . you will not denie this , what these are Called , euerie Punie can tell you .

Apologist .

T 's an infallible axiome that one numericall substance can haue but one manner of b. b. Mirth I hope can distinguish betwixt an accidentall presentialitie , and , a substantiall subsistence . subsisting .

Censure .

If you meane naturallie , this axiome is nothing to purpose heere , nihil ad rhombum . wee talke of that which God hath supernaturallie effected . If you meane supernaturallie , it is a meere begging of the Question , to call that an axiome , which no man yet euer auouched ; and your aduersaries do denie . Where did you euer reade ( vnles it were in some of your pufellowes lying pamphlets , ) that the same indiuiduall substance could not haue supernaturallie diuers accidentall manners of being ? or , that an indiuiduall nature could not haue an other manner of subsisting , then naturallie it hath ? The humanitie of our Sauiour hath another manner of subsisting then ours ; it subsisteth in the Word . is this naturall , or supernaturall ? and accidentallie wee shall be changed , when this corruptible shall haue put on incorruption , and this mortall haue put on immortalitie . is not this likewise aboue nature ? or is the state of a glorious bodie , naturall to the bodie , or impossible , that Master Waferers Axiome forsooth , may stand and in the sence wherein it were to serue his turne . One numericall substance can haue but one manner of subsisting .

Apologist .

Though place and quantitie be not in the essence of a bodie , yet it is a contradiction in it's existence to be without either , and consequentlie to create Christ such a bodie in the Eucharist which is not indiuiduall is a meere contradictorie fiction .

Censure .

I doubt I shall be thought a foole for disputing with such an one as you are . Master Mirth , who told you that the bodie which is in the Eucharist is not indiuiduall ? who spake of such a bodie ? who told you that it had not there quantity ? or that it was no where ? or do you dreame ? if you did not , and that the matter were not impertinent to this argument , I might hap to aske you touching those your imaginations , how you proue it a contradiction for a bodie to be without quantitie , or , a bodie hauing quantitie to be without a place ? I learned once from Aristotle that , quantitie is not substance , nor substance quantitie : which being supposed , ( and the thing is certaine in it self , ) you will haue much adoe to inferre a contradiction out of these two propositions , Substantia est . Quantitas non est . or these other ; Quantitas est . Substantia non est . Contradiction being affirmatio , and negatio eiusdem de eodem and secundum idem . you cannot Master Waferer . much lesse can you proue it is a contradiction for a bodie to be without a place . Locus is a. a. 4. Arist. 4. Phys. t. 41. continentis terminus immobilis primus : as the Philosopher defines it . who tels you likewise that ( b ) vniuersum non est in loco . the vttermost heauen or bodie , whateuer it be , is not properlie in a place . No other bodie , doth containe it ; if it did , this were not vttermost . Yet wee saie not , that our Sauiours bodie is no where ; or that it is not in the Church ; or that it hath not quantitie , or that it is not indiuiduall . these are , aegri somnia , they be your dreames Master Mirth , who vnderstand not this mightie argument which you tooke out of your Master Featlie : in whom I will go see ( for I cannot learne of you ) what the meaning of it is . Alia sunt in loco secundum potentiam , alia verò secundum actum . Vnde , cùm continuum quidem sit quod est similium partium , secundum potentiam in loco partes sunt ; cum vero separata sint quidem tangunt autem se , sicut collectio ; secundum actum sunt . Et alia quidem per se sunt , vt omne corpus , aut secundum loci mutationem , aut secundum augmentum mobile , alicubi perse existit : coelum autem , sicut dictum est , non est alicubi totum , neque in quopiam loco . si quidem nullum ipsum continet corpus : secundum autem quod mouetur , sic & locus est partibus ; altera enim alteri adhaerens partium est . Alia verò secundum accidens , sicut anima , & coelum , partes enim in loco quodammodo omnes sunt : in eo enim quod circulariter sunt , continet alia aliam ; vnde mouetur circulariter solum quod sursum est . Omne autem , non alicubi est : quod enim alicubi est , ipsum aliquid est , & adhuc aliud quiddam oportet esse extra hoc , in quo quidem continetur : extra autem omne & totum nihil est . Aristot 4. Phys. t. 45 Terra quidam in aqua , haec in aëre , hic verò in aethere , & hic verò in coelo ; coelum autem non amplius in alio est . Ibidem , t. seq . Simul autem manifestum est quod neque locus , neque vacuum , neque tempu● est extra coelum . — Quapropter neque quae illic sunt , nata sunt in loco esse , neque tempus ipsa facit senescere , neque vlla transmutatio vllius eorum est quae super extima disposita sunt latione ; sed inalterabilia , & impassibilia , optimam habentia vitam , & per se sufficientissimam , perseuerant toto aeuo . Lib. 1. de Coelo . t. 99. & 100. Huiusmodi substantiae ( separatae ) dicuntur ( a Philosopho , ) esse ibi , id est , extra coelum , non sicut in loco , sed sicut non contenta nec inclusa sub continentia corporalium rerum . sed totam corporalem naturam excedentia . S. Tho. Ibidem Vide eundem in 1. d. 37. q 3. a. 1. ad 4. Non reputo inconueniens quod Angelus sine loco possit esse , &c. De quo plura Caietanus , Nazarius , alijque .

He proposeth it against Master Wood ; and will needs proue the bodie , if it hath diuers Sacramentall presences ( such as wee beleeue it hath , ) is therby diuided in se , in itself , so that it is no more one and the same , but diuers bodies , this he striues to conclude out of the distinction of the Sacramentall presences , Featlie pag. 134. & seqq . wherof one is at Rome for example , and another is at Paris . But he striues in vaine ; for , the Dualitie is , of presencies ; not of bodies ; there are two presences in one , and the same bodie ; and these two presencies which are accidentes , separable from the forsaid bodie , relie vpon it as their subiect , and presuppose it in being euerie moment wherein themselues be , so farre they are from destroying it . Neither of them , is the substantiall indiuidualitie of the bodie ; for , the bodie was before , and will be the same after , when they be not at all , how then could it be concluded that two of them be two substantiall indiuidualities ? they neither are substantiall indiuidualities ; ( which is as easie to be proued as it is easie to proue that your vbication in this place where you are , which you may be without when you will , is not that whereby you are substantiallie distinct from other men ; ) nor out of their pluralitie doth there ensue a pluralitie in the bodie their subiect . for , accidents take not away their proper subiect , so to be , without any ; but are in it : and these presences ( which we speake of ) are accidents , not of a bodie in common , what euer bodie ; but , of this indiuiduall bodie of our Sauiour Iesus Christ .

Featlie , pag. 140 This way failing your Doctor , he takes another , to proue against Master Wood , a substantiall dualitie ( in the bodie ) out of the motion of it ; for if the same bodie be vnder two seuerall dimensions , it might be ( he thinks ) the terminus à quo and the terminus ad quem of the same direct motion , & be moued from it self ; which is ( saith he ) a contradiction . But , neither can he bring about his intent this waie . That which is the subiect of locall motion , or the thing which properlie is moued , when the Priest ( for example ) takes an hoaste out of the pixe , are the dimensions of bread : which dimensions haue localitie or situall extension , and are in loco in a place , whose definition you heard , before out of the Philosopher , the terminus à quo of which motion is not our Sauiours bodie , but the pixe where it was : and the terminus ad quem is the communicants mouth wherein he puts it . Our Sauiours bodie which is in those dimensions , is not in loco , per se ; but per accidens : that is to saie , though that accident place , which is terminus continentis &c. doth not affect in in it self , yet is it in the dimensions of bread which dimensions are so affected . And , as it is per accidens in loco , so is it locallie moued per accidens , not per se .

The Sacrament is not locus the place of the bodie , properly speaking neither is it ( the bodie ) commensurated to the place of the species . The bodie is not there after the manner of a bodie , extended situallie ; but rather according to the manner of a Spirit : though not altogether that way neither , but another more vndetermined and supernaturall way , whereof the Philosopher wanting faith had no knowledge . The Soule Aristotle saith is in loco per accidens . 4. Phys. t. 45. and his Commentator there , Anima est in loco quia sublectum eius quod est corpus , est in loco . And the Soule is moued per accidens , because the bodie or the part wherein it is , vnited ; is moued : this motion being nothing els but a successiue comparison to place . Motis nobis necessarium est & quae in nobis sunt omnia , simul moueri , saies Aristotle 2. Topic. loco 24. and 4. Phys. t. 31. Motum autem aliud mouetur per se , & aliud mouetur per accidens . & illud quod mouetur per accidens , aliud est quod potest moueri per se , verbi gratia membra hominis & clauus in naui ; & aliud non potest , sed semper mouetur per accidens , verbi gratia albedo , & cognitio ; ista enim non mutant sua loca , nisi quia illa in quibus sunt transferuntur .

The connexion or vnion of the Soule vnto the bodie ( disposed ) wee know by nature ; and by reason of this connexion it comes to passe that mouing the bodie vnto a place , the soule consequentlie is also there . The connexion of the bodie of our Sauiour with the species , is reuealed and made by the forme of consecration which is practicall , This in the shape of bread is my bodie . And the Councels acknowledge it when they say it is contained in the species ; sub speciebus panis & vini veraciter continetur , Conc. Later . sub Innocent. 3 , c. firmiter . §. vna est Conc. Trid. Sess. 13. c. 1. & 3 , so the Lateran Councell : and the Councell of Trent , in the same tenour , In sanctissimo Eucharistiae Sacramento continetur verè , realiter , & substantialiter , corpus &c. and sub singulis cuiusque speciei partibus separatione facta totus Christus continetur . So that a double relation is vnderstood there , one of the bodie to the species : another of the species to the bodie ; which remaine ( so that no force in nature can dissolue or separate them ) whilst the species remaine vncorrupted , and this by vertue and power of consecration and of the diuine omnipotence . This for the an est of this vnion or connexion ; the modus of it in particular sainct Thomas saith is ineffabilis . It sufficeth to know there is such a connexion : by which it comes to passe that mouing the species to a place , the bodie of our Sauiour is also there : for , the species and the bodie , cannot be separated or diuorced . And , as it is there , in place , in the sence aboue specified namelie ; per accidens ; so is it moued , per accidens .

It is further to be noted that when a thing , one in it self , is multiplex secundum esse , ( I take the word heere in a great latitude , ) it may be moued , and not moued , secundum diuersa . The Sonne of God , our blessed Sauiour , who is in himself one , vnum Ens , was moued according to his humane forme , Vado ad Patrem , quia Pater maior me est . Ioa. 14. and according to his diuine forme he was immoueable . Your soule which is but one , may be moued in your arme , and vnmoued in your breast . and your bodie may be moued according to one accidentall forme , as qualitie ; though it be not at the same time moued according to another , Were this in English he that is no Scholler could not vnderstand it . suppose quantitie . Cum aliquid est vnum subiecto saith our Doctour S. Thomas , & multiplex secundum esse , nihil prohibet secundum aliquid moueri , & secundum aliquid immobile permanere : sicut corpori est aliud esse album , & aliud esse magnum , vnde potest moueri secundum albedinem , & permanere immobile secundum magnitudinem . 3. p. qu. 76. a. 6. And in the same place answering an Obiection which was made to proue that our Sauiours bodie is in the Sacrament mobiliter , quia nobis motis mouentur ea omnia quae sunt in nobis , as before was said out of Aristotle , he answers , Dicendum quod ratio illa procedit de motu per accidens , quo ad motum nostri mouentur ea quae in nobis sunt : aliter tamen ea quae per se possunt esse in loco , sicut corpora ; & aliter ea quae per se non possunt esse in loco , sicut formae , & spirituales substantiae . Ad quem modum potest reduci , quod dicimus Christum moueri per accidens secundum esse quod habet in hoc Sacramento , in quo non est sicut in loco .

Out of these words I take an instance to declare the solution which I gaue to your Argument whereby you would proue that if our Sauiours bodie were in seuerall dimensions sacramentally , it might be moued from it self & so be substantiallie diuided in it self . The Answer is that , diuision in it self , followes not out of that motus per accidens . My Soule whilst I write , is moued per accidens , from it self , but yet remaines one . It were ridiculous to think that I cannot moue my fingers without diuiding an indiuisible , and destroying that immortall thing on which the motion it self dependeth . As for the termini , à quo , and ad quem , they be those that be the termini of the motus per se . When your bodie is in London ( in your Chamber ) per se , your soule is there , in eodem loco , ( your chamber , ) per accidens : the place is one ; but the manner of being in it , is diuerse . Per se , and per accidens , distinguish the manner . When your bodie is in motion thither ( to your chamber ) per se , your soule is moued thitherwards too , to the same terminus ad quem , ( your chamber , ) per accidens .

Suppose you be sitting in your studie , at your table , holding your right hand on the one end , and your left hand on the other end . When you moue your hands to the middle of the table , and put them there together , the termini a quibus in these two motions be not your soule , which is , and was , in either hand ; but the two ends of the table where your hands were , be the termini from whence you moued them , and the terminus ad quem is not your soule which is in your hands now being together , but the middest of the table is the terminus ad quem . You must now keepe your hands there together still , for feare least at parting them againe you diuide your soule ( substantiallie ) into two , by mouing it from it self , whilst you moue the right hand wherein it is , all , from the left wherein it is likewise all , or , put of your too melancholie imagination of a contradiction to ensue in case a thing should per accidens be moued from it self ; or be in two dimensions whereof one is locallie moued from the other . Of distance , or resting it is the same . Whilst your hands or armes do moue , one from the other ; your breast and other parts , may rest ; and the soule in the right hand is neerer to the ( same ) soule in the left when they be ioyned , then is the a a Of it self and by it self it cannot be distant from it self . soule in the feete . Neerer , how ? per acciden ; that is , it is in a part that is neerer . moued , how ? per accidens ; that is , it is in a part of dimension which is moued . resteth how ? per accidens ; that is , it is in a part that doth rest . Of it self it is not the subiect of these corporall accidents or affections , as I told you before .

Applie this to the bodie , existing according to the manner of a spirit , ( & after a more eleuated high manner than that of the soule , & more incontracted , more indetermined , more independent of locall affections ) in seuerall dimensions ; some testing , some moued ; some neerer , some farther of : and when any man offers to conclude a contradiction , Some learned Deuines haue thought it probable that an angel can be naturallie in two places at once ; as in two seuerall assumed bodies : and you will haue much adoe to demonstrate against them . Celarent . looke neere , whether there be affirmatio and negatio eiusdem de eodem and secundum idem , according to the same dimension ; and you will mile at their ignorance who by their wits do striue to put Gods omnipotencie to the non-p●us .

Apologist .

The next tedious busines is about this proposition This is my bodie , wherein that substantiall change which is aimed at is attributed to the power of that practicall proposition .

Censure .

That the proposition is practicall , was the tenet of the first of those witnesses which your Doctor cited as for himself , & in those words which he cited , Acceptum parem corpus suum illum ( not illud , as in Featlies margine ) fecit ( how so ? ) Hoc est corpus meum dicendo . if by saying those words , Hoc est corpus meum , he made it his bodie , those words were practicall . the like manner of speach and more expresse too , you shall find in other a. a. Per orationem Verbi Dei ab ip●o Eucharistiam That factum ●ibum ● illius carnem & sanguinem esse edect sumus . S. Iustin . Apol. 2. Qui est à terra panis percipiens vocationem Dei , iam non est communis panis , sed Eucharistia ex duabus rebus constans , terrena , & coelesti . S Iren. l. 4 c. 34 Benedictione etiam natura ipsa mutatur . S. Ambros . de myst . init . c. 9. Quòd si tantum valuit humaná benedictio ( de miraculis loquitur , per Moysen , aliosque patratis ) quid dicemus de ipsa consecratione Diuina , vbi verba ipsa Domini Saluatoris operantur ? Ibidem . Vide eundem l. 4. de Sacram. c. 5. Panis per Verbum Dei & orationem sanctificatur ; non quia comeditur eo progrediens vt verbi corpus euadat , sed statim per Verbum in corpus mutatur , vt dictum est à Verbo , Hoc est corpus meum . S. Greg. Nyssen Orat , Catech c. 37. Vox illa ( hoc est corpus meum ) semel quidem dicta est , sed per omnes mensas Ecclesiae vsque ad hodiernum diem , & vsque ad eius aduentum Sacrificio praestat firmitatem . S. Chrysost. de Prod. Iudae . vide eundem Hom. 2 In 2. ad Tim. Panis noster & calix certa consecrations mysticus fit nobis , non nascitur . S. Aug. l. 20. cont. Faust . c. 13. Absit vt de his quicquam sinistrum loquar , qui Apostolico gradui succedentes , Christi corpus sacro ore conficiunt . S. Hier. epist. ad Heliod . Transformatur arcanis verbis panis iste per mysticam benedictionem , & accessionem Spiritus S in carnem Domini . Theophilact in c 6 Ioan. Virtute Spiritus-S per Verbum Christi , fit sanguis Domini , Paschal . lib. de Corp. Dom. c. 12. Per eius virtutem , & prolatum ab eo Verbum , quae videntur tam sanctificata sunt , vt cunctum carnis sensum excedunt . I sich . l. 6. in Leuit. c. 22. Auncients , whom you will not , I suppose , ( yet I haue cause to feare the contrarie , but you should not I am sure ) offer to controule .

That which was aimed at , or disputed of , was not the change , but the Read presence , as you haue beene oft put in mind , though it be true also that those words do serue to proue there is a change of substance . For , that which was vnder them before consecration was bread ; S Cyril . Hier. and that which is vnder them after consecration is not bread ( to vse the words of an auncient Father ) but as the words import , the bodie of our Sauiour : Wherefore doubtles there is a change . and our Sauiours words , the words of Consecration , were ( in their kind ) the cause of it ; though not the chief or principall . The principall cause was not the forme of consecration , Serm. de Coena . but his omnipotencie , as Antiquitie before told you : Panis iste non effigie sed natura mutatus omnipotentia Verbi factus est caro .

Now because you complaine that the matter of this Argument which your Doctour vrged , is tedious ( you are wearied as it seemes with answering of distinctions , ) I will in few words tender you the summe of it , and of the Relations , in it . The proposition or enunciation is this , Hoc est Corpus meum . in which enunciation there is the a. a. See the Preface . subiect , the attribute , and the note of identitie or copula . The subiect is Hoc ; the Attribute , Corpus meum ; the copula , est . About this Enunciation and these three partes of it , your Doctour in his Relation moues ( what expreslie what tacitelie , ) six doubts , which S. E. doth resolue in his Notes . The first ; what kind of signification the subiect hath ? the Answer is , that , if that word onlie be considered , the signification of it confused and vndetermined , so that vntill the rest of the proposition comes , your vnderstanding is vncertaine what substance in particular it doth point at . The second , whether it be necessarie that the thing which it points at and designes according to the intention of the speaker , ( which intention is more vnfolded in the words following , ) be then existent when that word is vttered ? He answers , No● Falsum est in pronomine , aduerbiove demonstrandi requiri rem praesentem . Non enim est perpetuum ; saith your great b. b. Li. 10. de Euch . c. 18. Chamier , prouing it with examples out of Scripture . The third , whether in the copula there be a figure , The answer is the same that was giuen before when the question was of the place in S. Augustine , that according to the substance ( you know what a kind of verbe it is ) of the thing signified , which is identitie , there is no figure . and this ( the identitie ) is the principall . If further , your regard that which it doth consignifie ( so L●gici●ns vse to speake ) there were no inconuenience to admit ampliation , or improprietie ; howbeit it seemes not be necessarie , as S. E. told you in his Notes . The fourth , whether this proposition be meerlie speculatiue . It was answered that it is c. c. Supra pag. 419 & seq. not . The fift , in what , this proposition is verified . The answer is that , both the proposition , and all the parts of it , be verified in the effect . The sixt , when it is verified ? The answer is , that Veritie is the adequation of two , the proposition and the obiect ; whereof one is the subiect , Distingue de tempore seu instanti quo oratio significat , vel de tempore seu instanti pro quo oratio significat : aliud est enim quando quod oratio consignificat , & aliud est quando per orationem consignificatum : vt patet dicendo , Petrus crucifixus est . quando enim oratio ista significat , tunc est cúm profertur : sed quando consignificatum est tempus praetetitum . Significatio autem orationis non est nisi oratio sit integra integritate essentiali , quoniam oratio non essentialiter integra , non est oratio . Caiet . 3. p q. 78. a. 5. Et quia consignificare praesupponit significare , vt pote adiacens illi , ideo oratio sicut non significat ita nec consignificat nisi in termino suae prolationis . Nec est hoc solum verum de tota oratione , sed & de partibus vt integrant totam . Et de copula quidem declaratur dupliciter ; tum ex eo quod ly est , significat compositionem , quam sine extremis non est intelligere non enim potest intelligi compositio prior his quae componuntur ; tum quia experimur quod huius orationis , lignum est album , postquam prolatae sunt primae dictiones , scil. lignum est , antequam proferaturly album , ly est , non significat compositionem ligni cum albo , quod conuincitur si ponamus orationem sistere , &c. Ibidem . De subiecto autem dupliciter etiam idem manifestatur in proposito , tum quia talia sunt subiecta qualia permittuntur a praedicatis , & propterea ante praedicata non habent suppositionem suam ; tum quia clarè perspicimus quod dictis istis duabus dictionibus , homo est , vt formetur propositio de tertio adiacente , nullus intellectus habetur tam subiecti quam copulae . sed variabitur Vtriusque sensus iuxta varietatem praedicati , vt patet formando duas propositiones , quarum vna sit , homo est albus ; & altera , homo est species , clarè enim in his liquet & subiectum & copulam praedicatum expectare ; ita quòd varietas praedicati varietatem inducit & in tota oratione , & in subiecto , & copulâ . Ibidem . the other the terminus of the Relation of conformitie , which relation seemes to be among those that be called rationis , the terminus or obiect of this conformitie is then onlie when the effect is existent : the relation it self is when it is conceaued . The subiect of the relation is the proposition , to which the vnderstanding doth applie the forsaid relation ; which proposition was then when it was vttered , and after that manner as successiue thinges vse to be , or haue existence .

Apologist .

There is no such created vertue inherent ( as you suppose ) in the pronunciation of this proposition , it is rather declaratiue of what was past then effectiue of ought which was not ; your verie A. B. C. of Logick will teach you no other definition , or vse of a proposition then to be , an indicatiue congruous perfect &c.

Censure .

You will pardon me for not writing out at leingth your long long definition . out of which whilst you conclude that no proposition is practicall , you giue waie for me to inferre , you not to be reasonable ; because that is not in the definition of animal . Some propositions be practicall Master Waferer ; but all be not . some sciences be practicall ; but all be not . the genus doth abstract . To saie that the words be not illatiue of anie effect in their kind , but declaratiue of what was past , and meerelie speculatiue ; is a begging of the Question : and a contradiction to those words which your Doctor d. d. Panem corpus suum fecit dicendo . before stood vpon . And , if words may not be practicall , how comes it that your bread is a Sacrament ? do you make the Sacrament without consecrating the matter , or do you consecrating without words ? The forme of Baptisme , is it meerelie speculatiue ? doth it onlie declare what was donne without it ? That Sacraments do cause grace , is your owne tenet ; and things actiue , are so , by their formes . Quicunque Sacramenta dixerunt nihil efficere , siue ij Messaliani fuere , siue Armeni , siue Anabaptistae , siue alio quocunque nomine , cum ijs profitemur nihil habere commune . saies your Master Chamiere , citing the Hugonots Confession . Li. 2. de Sacr , c. 2 and though you haue not read so farre perchance in him , you should haue knowne at least what your e. e. Sacraments ordained by Christ be not onlie badges or tokens of Christian mens profession , but rather they be certaine sure witnesses and effectuall signes of grace &c. Art. 25. owne article , teach in this point . You had examples in the efficacie of other words ( whether the instance be made in propositions , or speaches which be not propositions , it imports not ) Lazarus come foorth . which was the Royall f. f. Cyrill Caten . commaund of him whom all creatures obaie ; and they were efficacious too . the words ( I saie ) were efficacious , not the omnipotencie onlie , which was principall ; but the words were efficacious in their kind . Dixit & factum est . S. E. did little think it would be necessarie to put a Scholler in mind that according to the Philosopher , Propositions , some be practick , factiuae , so his interpreter turnes the word ( lib. de motu Animalium , cap. 4 ) some speculatiue : that Science is diuided by speculatiue and practicke : and that Deuines do consider in God , not onlie speculatiue knowledge , but practick also . Psal 32. Sap 7. Heb. 1. Verbo Dei Coeli firmatisunt . Dixit & facta sunt . Omnium artifex sapientia . Portans omnia verbo virtutis suae .

What kind of vertue those words haue , whether Physicall or onlie Morall , the Schoolmen may dispute without preiudice to the generall consent in matters defined , or vniuersallie receaued .

Apologist .

That prettie kind of Sophistrie which perswades me to heere out the proposition operatiue before the conformitie betweene the subiect and the predicate can be graunted ( as supposing the period of it to finish the substantiall change ) besides that it is s●ender and boyish it is also impertinent , because it plaies vpon a string allreadie broken , attributing that change , which is , to the pronunciation of this proposition , which I haue allreadie refuted .

Censure .

Ex tripode ; pedanticallie , as all the rest . Can you iudge of the conformitie or difformitie betwixt the subiect and the predicate , before you know what it is ? or do you know what I would saie before you heere me speake ? Mirth is a — is this true or false ? Your conscience belike , tels you what the predicate is to be . S. E. cannot perswade you , what can your owne Master do ? Longè consultius Scotus , ( saies he ; Chamier l. 10. de Euch. c. 20. ) Conceptus qui causatur per orationem prolatam non habetur per eam nisi in vltimo instanti prolationis orationis . Recte . Certum est enim nunquam posse totum obtineri nisi ex omnibus simul partibus . Quia autem oratio successiuè perficitur , non possunt omnes eius partes simul haberi , nisi in instanti eius postremo ; ideoque nec ipsa tota . and I think you will not saie that you know the conformitie , before you conceaue the proposition .

But it is impertinent , why so ? because it plaies vpon a string allreadie broken , attributing that change , which is , to the pronunciation of the proposition . Were this the string , still he might ( to keepe your metaphore ) plaie on ; for it holds as you perceaued in your last paragraff . But you mistake ; the string which drawes a man to heare out the whole proposition before he knowes or graunts the truth of it , or the conformitie betweene the subiect & the predicate , is the light of reason , or abilitie to iudge : which string , if you haue allreadie broken , you were best for your credit pleade , that it was high set . Nullum magnum ingenium siue mixtura dementiae .

Apologist .

Let S. E. flourish it as he will , our Doctour iustlie laies tantalogie to his Lordships charge , which blow his Champion seeking to ward , laies himself and the weaknes of his cause to an easie censure .

Censure .

If identitie of the thing signified by the subiect and by the attribute of a proposition , though the manner of signifying and conceauing be groundedlie or cum fundamento diuers , suffice to note it of tautologie ; then is it tautolegie to saie , pointing at Featlie , this is a man , a liuing creature , a substance , and the sence will be , this is Featlie , Featlie , Featlie . For there is identitie of the thing signified by the subiect and the thing signified by those attributes ; man , liuing creature , substance : all these being reallie identified to the subiect , which is Featlie . And if the speach be nugatorie , and the same conceit bread by the subiect & by euerie one of these attributes , the whole speach may be resolued by subordinating still the same word to the same conceit : Ea quae in voce , sunt earum quae in anima passionum , notae .

Whether in such propositions , the attributes be superiour predicamentall degrees , or be differences , or be metaphysicall properties , it matters not : so there be reall identitie betwixt the thing signified by the subiect and the thing signified by the attribute , wherof S. E. gaue examples . God is wise , iust omnipotent , eternall . Omnipotens est aeternus , aeternus est omnipotens . Reade his discourse againe : and obserue in him these words , Confer . p. 923 9. This must be graunted ( that identicall propositions , all , haue the vice of tautologie ) if the difference of formalities be not to be regarded in speach : & if the distinction of a double identicall proposition be now to be reiected .

Apologist .

simple , simple , simple , simple , simple , simple .

Censure .

The truth is so ; simple , verie simple : and the professors of truth , should be so , simple . The word is honorable among Christians : though filled with bitternes as it comes out of the mouth of Heresie , which ( it self euer doubling ) thinks there is a fault plaine dealing .

Wee tell our mind openlie ; wee do not lap our cause vp in folds , as you , ( sonnes of the old Serpent , ) do : telling vs , your tenet in this point is incomprehensible , and yet easie : graunting and strait denying againe , a reall presence : and then , though no man can tell certainlie what you saie , wee must beleeue you : and if wee do not wee be simple , simple . It is an old trace , this . he that shewd it you , taught it others . Si bona fide quaeras , concreto vultu , Tertull. suspenso supercilio , Altum est , aiunt . Si subtiliter tentes , per ambiguitates bilingues , communem fidem adfirmant . siscire te subostendas , negant quic quid agnoscunt . Si comminus certes , tuam simplicitatem sua caede dispergunt . Simplices notamur apud illos , vt hoc tantum , non etiam sapientes : quasi statim deficere cogatur à simplicitate sapientia , Domino vtramque iungente , Esto prudentes vt serpentes , & simplices vt columbae . Aut si nos propterea ●nsipientes quia simplices , num ergo & illi propterea non simplices quia sapientes ? Nocentissimi autem qui non simplices , sicut stultissimi qui non sapientes . Et tamén malim in eam partem , meliori sumi vitio . Si fortè praestat minus sapere quam peius , errare quàm fallere . — Facilius simplicitas sola Deum & agnoscere poterit & ostendere ; prudentia sola concutere potius & prodere . Abscon dat itaque se serpens , quantum potest , totamque prudentiam in latebrarum ambagibus torque at , altè habitet , in coeca detrudatur , per anfractus seriem suam euoluat , tortuosé procedat nec semel totus lucifuga bestia : Nostrae columbae domus simplex , etiam in aeditis semper , & apertis , & ad lucem . Aske them in good earnest , they with a contracted countenance and eye-browes drawne vp , say , t' is a mysterie . trie them cunninglie and with double-tougued ambiguities they professe the common tenet . Take on you to know , and they denie whatsoeuer they ( inwardlie ) approue . combat with them , and with their whiffling they spred abroad & disperse your simplicitie . ( simple , simple , simple , simple . ) They call vs simple , onlie so ; to note vs as vnwise : as if wisedome could not consist with simplicitie , whereas our Lord doth combine them ; be wise as serpents and simple as doues . Or , if wee therefore must be thought fooles because wee be simple , must wee needes think them wise for that they be not simple ? Sure , those do most harme that want simplicitie , as those be most sottish that haue no kind of prudence . and yet I had rather be defectiue in this kind , then want simplicitie : for he that hath but little wit is better then a start foole : and it is lesse hurtfull to mistake ones self , then to deceaue or bring others into errour . Simplicitie alone may more easilie acknowledge & showe God ; prudence alone may moue rather ,

Dei facies expectat in simplicitate quaerentes , vt docet ipsa Sophia , non quidem Valentini sed Salomonis . Ibidem .

In summa , Christum columba demonstrare solita est . Serpens ve●ò tentare . Illa & à primordio diuinae pacis praeco . Ille à primordio diuine imaginis praedo . Ita facilius simplicitas sola &c. Ibidem .

& betray . Wherefore let the snake hide himself what he can , let him wreath and winde all his prudence within the turnings of his lurking holes , let the light-abhorring beast dwell deepe within the ground , be tumbled into blind circuites , vnfold and open those muolutions of his crinkling continuation , crawle writhinglie , and not all at once . The house of our doue is simple , euer in places discouered , and open , and to the light .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith in confirmation of his discourse laies downe a rule , & giues two instances which I will sift in order . His rule runnes thus , subiectes are such as their attributes permitte them to be . Rather saie I é contrà , Predicates are such as their subiects permit them to be : For wee neuer take that preposterous course to enquire whether a subiect agree to the predicate but whether the predicate agree with the subiect .

Censure .

Semper Leontini iuxta pocula . Still you teach Master Mirth , you be Doctour of the Chaire . Doctor Smith , he saith Subiectes are such &c. & other Deuines too saie the same , and Logick doth admit it for a Rule in the matter of Suppositions . But I , ( who are you ? ) saie the contrarie let Logicians take it as they will , I saie Predicates are such as their subiects permit them to be . That Subiects beare swaie , the Puritan thinks , is better Logick . Ipse dixit .

But yet , since you stand vpon termes let vs examine you . Do you know what is Suppositio terminorum , & how many kinds of suppositions there bee ? if you do not , the Punies of your House will be ashamed of such a Graduate : if you do , then tell me before them , whether the predicate do not determine the supposition of the subiect in these propositions or speaches following , Homo est vox , homo est species , homo est animal , homo currit , homo est mortuus . It were to much honour to you to be posed in Diuinitie , els I would aske whether there also , the same Rule be not currant . Deus est trinus , Deus generat , Deus procedit , Deus est immortalis . is it not the predicate which determines the acception or supposition of the word Deus , which word of it self is indifferent to stand for the first or the second or the third person ; or for two , or for all three ? and sometimes in propositions it stands for the first , sometimes for the second ; sometimes for the third . I might aske you further of words aequiuocall in themselues , whether they draw their attributes to determination , or their attributes determine them ? but the thinges are allreadie knowne to Punies .

In the reason which , you bring , you discouer more your ignorance , for by it appeares manifestlie that in this discourse you do not distinguish the things , from the names : and Questions appertaining to the thinges , ( as why the passion is in the subiect ? why colour is in a mixt bodie ? which Question belonges to naturall Philosophie ; ) from the Questions appertaining to the termes , ( of a proposition : ) as why the attribute determines the signification or acception of the subiect ? which Question belongs to Logick .

The flower of Sophistrie being dropt downe out of your subtile vnderstanding , you fall next a sifting of instances : but the breaking of the string made a hole it seemes in your ( ) for see ; the first comes out entire .

Apologist .

As for your instances they will not hold triall , the first is this , as when I saie this is a crosse , and make it withall , the word this , doth suppose for the Crosse &c. what of this ? Christ was not about to make him another bodie when he said . This is my bodie , for then Christ should haue had two bodies .

Censure .

Did I not tell you that it came out entire ? and , by that which comes with it , me thinkes the cracke is wider then before .

Apologist .

Your second instance in taceo ( as supposing for silence when the word is vttered ) Aquinas reiects it . 3. p. q. 78. a. 5.

Censure .

He hath much there in that Article , against you : as , 1. that the proposition is practicall , such as doth not presuppose the thing it signifies , but make it ; non praesupponit rem significatam , sed eam facit . 2. that hoc , doth not signifie bread , but contentum sub his speciebus 3. that it is hereticall to saie the bodie of our Sauiour is in the Sacrament onlie sicut in signo and not secundum veritatem . with many other things . But against vs , there is nothing . That a. a. Istae propositiones , Ego tacco , Nihil dico , &c. non solum ex intentione proferentis , sed ex rigore sermonis sunt verae : ergo non significant nisi pro momento terminatiuo nam dum proferuntur falsae sunt . Soto in 4. d. 11. q 1. a. 5. Verbum est , non solum ex virtute intentionis proferentis , sed ex vi significationis non significat perfectam rerum compositionem vsque ad completam prolationem . Ibidem , Nomen & pronomen secundum Grammaticos non consignificat tempus , sed Verbo id competit ; quare demonstratio per se pronominis abstrahit à tempore ; scilicet & quo profertur pronomen , & quo terminatur totius orationis prolatio . quare vtramque substantiam significat , pro qua item posset supponere . At quia verbum , vt dictum est , consignificat tempus terminatiuum orationis , virtute eiusdem verbi trahitur suppositio pronominis ad corpus , Ibidem ex Richardo . taceo signifies as my Lord said it did , Sainct Thomas denies not . neither doth he denie that the proposition is to be vnderstood secundum vltimum instans , as then to haue it's effect , which effect is the thing signified : yea he doth affirme it directlie ; oportet intelligere praedictam locutionem secundum vltimum instans prolationis verborum . and in the precedent Article , he saith in vltimo instanti prolationis verba consequuntur virtutem cōuersiuam ; wherby the same is also manifest .

The proposition , Corpus meum est corpus meum , was true before and was not made true by vertue of consecration ; but it was not true before that our Sauiours bodie was in the shape of bread , or had Sacramentall existence . Per hanc formam fit vt corpus Christi sit in hoc Sacramento secundum ●eritatem . S. Thom. Ibidem . and though this proposition Corpus meum est corpus meum be identicall according to the manner ; yet the proposition which wee speake of , is not ; as you were told oft enough in the Relation ; where you may reade still your Doctors Predicament , which will stand , vntill he graunts the distinction of a two fold identicall proposition , one for matter onlie , another for manner too . wherefore no more of that .

Apologist .

Put case I should graunt you such power in those wordes ( this is my bodie ) to transubstantiate the bread , may I not challeng the same force in them to change the accidents as well as the substance , since they were likewise in his hand when he pronounced them ?

Censure .

No. you cannot , as will appear , if you consider them well . this ( in the exteriours shape of bread ) is my bo●●● . will you haue is to be in that shape , and yet the shape not to be ; and our Sauiours intention being to institute a Sacrament , the exteriour species which immediatlie doth occurre vnto the sense , was to remaine . The Fathers also note , that , to take away the b. b. S. Cyrill . Alex . Ep. ad Calos . Theophilac . in Mat. 26.5 . Ambros . l. 4 de Sacram. c. 4 Haimo in Pass . Christi sec Mar. Lanfranc . lib. de Corpo . S. Bernard . Serm. de Coena Dom. horrour of eating mans flesh , and drinking blood in their owne shapes , they be couered in the formes of bread and wine , which vsuallie men receaue . you haue S. Thomas in your hands , it seemes ; in him you may find more of this q. 75. a. 5.

Moreouer , transubstantiation being a succession of substances vnder the same accidentall formes ; you destroy the notion of it , if you take the same formes away . they must remaine the same . And that it is indeed so , that still there is the exteriour shape of bread , you knowe by sence : but whether vnder them there be bread or flesh , the sence is not able to certifie ; you know that it enters not so farre . Some higher power must iudge of it ; and an vnderstanding well disposed ( as being readier to beleeue God , then to relie on you , or on this foolish dotage that God can do no more then man is able of himself to know , ) beleeues it is our Sauiours bodie ; since God affirmes it But see ! the Puritan is in his ruffe .

Apologist .

Me thinks Master S. E. you close this Section verie saucilie and sillilie . For Doctor Featlie vrging you that identicall propositions ( such as your discourse makes this ) proue nothing , to trie wether they can proue anie thing , askes this Question : If I point to Christs bodie in Heauen at the right hand of his Father and saie , This , See aboue pag. 35. or that bodie of Christ , is his bodie ; will it hence follow than bread or any thing els is substantiallie turned ( into Christs bodie ? ) you forsooth answer him thus , No , but something els it seemes is ( turned ; ) how els could your mouth vtter such an impertinent discourse ? It would haue argued you of more Schollership & iudgment either to haue beene silent or els to haue answered him how meere identicall propositions can proue any thing .

Censure .

Quantulacunque adeo est occasio , sufficit irae .

Was it not euident that the proposition was meerelie speculatiue ; as much , as if I , pointing at you , should saie this is Waferer : and , this face is Mirths owne face ? and that it did suppose allreadie in being , all that it imported ? and therefore was impertinentie paralleled with this other which is not meerelie speculatiue , nor supposeth ●n being that which it importes ; but , both inferre it . Our Sauiours bodie Master Waferer , was not in the forme of bread before consecration ; by consecration it was there Sainct a. a. Non erat corpus Christi ante consecrationem : sed post consecrationem dico tibi quod iam est corpus Christi . ipse dixit & factum est S. Amb. l. 4. de Sacr. c. 4. ex pa●e fit corpus . Ibidem . vides quam operatorius sit sermo Christi &c. Ibidem . Ambrose he tels you so directlie . so ●o b. b. Suprà pag 480. Should a lay man say ouer a peice of bread Hoc est corpus 〈◊〉 the proposition would be false ; wherefore it is not like Featlies . should a Priest with intention to consecrate , pronounce them , they would be true . others .

That propositions which for matter are identicall , may serue to prooue or inferre , you might haue knowne being Master of Art , and he ( Featlie ) being Doctor in Diuinitie , without further teaching ; which , ( had any beene thought necessarie , ) was not alltogether wanting on the part of S. E. whom you reprehend for not teaching it . Did you runne ouer withou● reading ; or reading , not vnderstand those words in him pag. 94. For matter , a proposition may be identicall , and prooue too ; and such are All those ( heere are infinite ) which define the subiect ( will you haue instance for your easie● learning of his mind ? ) as this , A man is a reasonable creature . And he that denies it can proue anie thing , shewes him●self ignorant in the principles of Science and knowes not what a demonstration is . So hee . and so I , do tell you now againe . Your Doctor ( it is like ) lookes higher , and would haue an instance in a matter more eleuated . Be it so God is eternall . will you haue a proposition to proue it ? take this , God is immutable . you can make the Syllogisme your self , I suppose . Whatever thing is immutable is eternall , &c. Will you haue a proposition to proue that God is immutable ? take this , Deus est actus purus . dispose it in forme of a Syllogisme : Omnis actus purus est immutabilis ; Deus est actus purus , &c. will you haue another to proue that God is actus purus ? take this , Deus est suum esse . Dispose it . It is easie to demonstrate , in this manner , that God hath vnderstanding ; that he is wise ; that he is free ; that he is mercifull , Iust , Omnipotent ; &c. taking still to make the proofe good , such propositions as are identicall for matter . And this likewise , S. E. did insinuate vnto you pag. 92. wherefore there was no cause to tax him with either want of Schollership in the point , ( yet a point , which neither you , nor your Master did vnderstand , ) or ingenuitie . But this is not all .

Immediatlie after , you cite an other passage out of him , Which so wrought vpon your choller , that you terme him cup-valiant ; and ; the beere is in his head ; and , he stumbles ; and if his owne weaknes condemnes him not , you 'l spare him . Your mercie , sure , is great . if this be to spare , what will become of those you do not spare ? And this too , after you haue taxed him with want of Schollership and ingenuitie ; adding that he concludes the Section saucilie , and ( one blow more , before you spare him , ) sillilie . I forbeare to transcribe the rest , Spissis indigna theatris Scripta pudet recitare , & nugis addere pondus . But , that none els vpon the like occasion , incurre your high displeasure , I will heere register the fault in black characters ; for it deserues them better , then the redde you giue it . It is in his Notes vpon the seuenth argument , where he defends out of S. Lukes Gospell , that at the last supper there were two cups ; the legall , and the Sacramentall ; interpreting S. Mathewes words ( I will drink no more of this fruite of the vine , ) of the legall cup. which interpretation the Doctor impugnes . Doctor Featlie . Pag. 111. should I take : a cup , and after I had drunck of it , saie I will drinck no more of this , you would vnderstand me of that which I drank last . The Answer of S. E. Did I see the whole action I should iudge according to that I sawe , no doubt . and S. Mathew seeing our Sauiours action did conceaue it will enough . But should one or two tell me that Doctor Featlie at the table hauing drunk beare & wine , said he would drink no more of this beere , I had no reason to think he meant wine , though wine were last mentioned before . Now by the relation of S. Mathew & S. Luke , it appeare , that our Sauiour drank of two seuerall cups , and that he called the one of them the fruite of the vine ; the other his blood , & , his testament . Thus S. E. Where it will be as hard to find a fault against manners any waie , ( were it that he did owe dutie to your Doctor ) as to find in scirpo nodum , Et tua cum vdeas oculis mala lippusinunctis cur — if I be not much deceaued .

But , suppose a fault . What incensed your vpright zeale ( which he had not meddled with , ) to flie on him so furiouslie ? what distemper of your stomack made you belch our such bitternes vpon his Notes ? what humor is it that makes your inke , to staine , mens names , and honour ? men , that offended not your Innocencie , whereof they neither spake , nor thought , nor heard .

Tantaene animis coelestibus irae ?

You can teare with your mouthes the credit of whole multitudes of graue learned men ; Deuines , Bishops , Councels , Sepulchrum patens est guttur eorum . If the Reader euer heard Puritan Sermon he knowes what stuffe those things be made of Popes , Church and all . vnicuique sepulchro sufficit vnum funus ; & clauditur : gutturi vestro honorum funera minime sufficiunt ; & adhuc patet . you be still readie to deuour vs . but your selues must not be told , not of your faults . Wee must not , against your biting defend our good name . Why ? because you , still , are Innocent . After all your inuectiues , and calumnies when with your bitternes against vs you haue scandalized your whole parish ; you can wipe your mouth , and saie , I haue donne no wickednes .

What you do must be though well donne , all . Men must adore your errours with the title of truth . the bitter speaches that drop from your mouth must be esteemed a sacred kind of vrbanitie . and when you dispute absurdlie , wee must not as much ar smile . O no. that were against the religion due to your , more then sacred , worth . You are holie , no prophane thing may come within your circuite : much lesse touch you . Your fame is holie , your actions holie , your writings holie , and your lies and leeres , all , holie . O the holines of these holie ones so the puritie of these Puritans ! o the candor of these sepulchers ! you must not presse to neere , nor speake much of them , neither ; for your breath may staine their white .

Hark! one cries out , Recede à me , noli me tangere , stand a farre of , keepe aloof , touch me not , ( why so , faire picture , will your colours come of easilie ? ) a, a, Ita ex Isaiae 65. legit S. Aug. Hom. 23. ex Hom , 50. Eodem modo legunt Sep. tuag . apud S. Hier. quoniam mundus sum ; for I am cleane : quia sanctior sum te , b. b. English bible . Pagnin . for I am holier than thou art . Are you so ? c'rie you mercie . I am not as other men are Pharisaeus , Luk. 18.11 . Your Holines , I hope , will pardon those who before did no so much reflect on the delicacie of a Puritans reputation , which is so tender ( I perceaue now ) that it scarce endures a man to reflect on it . and since it is so nice , the best counsell I can giue you , ( pure Images of Sanctitie , ) is this , that you forbeare challenging , and comming to answer distinctions ; for you may chance to meete with some who will not put their hats of , to Masters of Art , as soone as they come in sight ; especiallie in the distance , wee are now . S. E sure will not , if he be as you stile him , ( let me change your harsh language , ) deux fois tres-simple .

The sixt Argument was grounded vpon the word Testament in S. Luke : where it is taken , as my Lord Answered , for an authentick signe of the interiour will or sentence : and in this sence our Sauiours blood , as vnder the forme of wine , is testamentum , a Testament .

The Apologist hath made this Section , and the next verie short ; either because he had very litle to replie for his Doctour , or els to keepe Decorum in his Comedie . More Acts then fiue be not in fashion , wherefore the rest , ( two short Scenes , or Sections , ) is all , Epilogue .

In the former of the Sections , he saith , first , that it is onlie Christs blood heere as it is shed heere . where taking the word shed , in the ordinarie common acception ( as he doth expound himself afterwards , ) he doth but beg the Question : as will appeare if we make the proposition ( and he doth himself somewhere make the like , ) of the bodie in the Sacrament : and saie , it is onlie Christs bodie heere , as it is crucified heere . Who so poreblinde as not to see this is petitio principij ? He would be loath ( I beleeue ) to put this Argument to those Catholikes that neuer sawe Master of Art in his habit , It is onli● Christs bodie in the Eucharist as it is crucified in the Eucharist ; But it is onlie sacramentallie ( meaning in a signe ) crucified in the Eucharist , Ergo it is onlie sacramentallie ( meaning a signe ) in the Eucharist . For the Solution whereof if you demaund of anie Catholicke , i● our Sauiours bodie crucified in the Eucharist ? he tels you , No. demaund againe , is it there indeed reallie ? he Answers yes : so I haue beene taught and I beleeue it . And heereby , Master Waferer , though he knowes not the termes of Art , He denies that which is your Maior .

A Scholler will tell you further , of another sence of the word shed , when it is attributed to the Sacramentall cup ; and of the word broken , when it is attributed to the bodie ; which you did not reflect vpon when you made your Argument . The bodie & blood of our Sauiour ( the lambe sacrificed for the world ) are heere in the species of things inanimate ; which existence by reason of the exteriour formes giues occasion when wee speake of the sacred actions that are exercised towards or about them , to vse that kind of speach which was proper to sacrifices of that kind ; whereof , some were solid and drie ; others liquid . among the solid was bread , which was broken , to signifie the soueraigne dominion of Almightie God ; Leuit. 2. among the liquid was wine , which to the same end was powred out vpon the Altar . hence those words powred out or shed , and broken , are vsed to signifie the action of sacrifycing when the things offered or sacrificed be in formes inanimate , of bread or wine ; and euen by our Sauiour himself , This is my bodie which is broken for you 1 Cor. 11. this is my blood , of the new testament which is powred out or shed for many . Matt. 26. This breaking for , and shedding for , is vnbloodie sacrifycing . Which Caluin espied also , and confessed , when he expounded the breaking in S. Paul , Calu in Epi , pri. Cor. panis quem frangimus . frangi , saies he , interpretor immolari .

But the Apologist obiectes againe , out of the word shed . Howeuer it be shed , ( saith he ) it moueth being powred out , if it moue it is in a place , if in a place then either circumscriptiuelie or definitiuelie . Heere it appeares that ( as before I noted ) he speakes of shedding according to the ordinarie common acception of the word without reflecting on the other acception according to which neither this nor the former Obiection hath any kind of apparence . For , a thing may , by consecration , be put vpon the Altar , in the forme of wine , without any locall motion of it . And this presenting of it on the altar by turning ( not it , into an other thing , but ) wine into it , donne to signifie the soueraigne dominion of allmightie God , is one part of the sacrification which wee call vnbloody . the other part is the putting of the bodie on the altar by consecration , in the shape of bread . and both these , make one representation , of the bloodie sacrifice and oblation on the Crosse .

But you are not yet accustomed to consider how words are extended ( by reason of analogie in the matters ) to an equiuocall kind of signification , ( whereof in the mysteries of Christianitie , yea and in other matters too , there are frequent examples , ) wherefore I come neerer to your conception ; and in answer to your doubt , tell you first that , as a thing may be in place either per se , or per accidens : so may it be said locallie to be moued , either per se , or per accidens . your soule in your hand , and the blood of our Sauiour heere ; Supra pag. 471 & seqq . are in loco , per accidens . I told you before more of this . Secondlie those two modi which you speake of , do not sufficientlie distinguish or expound that which wee call being in a place . God is in the world , yet neither of these two waies : and our Sauiours bodie in the Sacrament , though not either of these wayes which you speake of . The veritie of Gods word doth inforce a presence distinct from both those . and to suppose there is none distinct , is , in you that are Christned , an hereticall begging of the Question .

Insteed of a third replie , you demaund , whether wee beleeue that thing in the Sacrament , ( which you describe by transubstantiated bread & wine ) to be the price of our Redemption ? I answer that I beleeue Iesus Christ , who told vs that , that thing in his hands , in the forme of bread , was his bodie deliuered for our sinnes ; and that thing in the chalice his blood , shed for vs . This Master Waferer , though you shrink , and crie , Alas fond faith ; is part of my Creede . That our Sauiour was borne of the Virgine Marie , is most certaine ; I beleeue it . And I beleeue him ( haue I not cause ? ) that was so borne . I willinglie ioyne with Antiquitie , & with the Catholike and vniuersall Church of this Prince of peace , this Emmanuel , this Virgins-Sonne , this Heire apparent of all that God hath ; Ioan. 16. who trulie said Omnia quaecunque habet Pater mea sunt , euen his Diuinitie , & his knowledge , & his omnipotencie : wherby He , Iesus , he was able to make good his promise , the bread which I will giue is my flesh , & to verifie what he did affirme , this ( in forme of bread ) is my bodie .

Whilst you censured this faith , as fond , did not your conscience trouble you Master Waferer ? and when you named the price of our redemption in the cup ; did not your memorie suggest vnto you those words of S. Augustine before discussed , where he said that Iudas the traitour and a Deuill , drank it : Iudas , that tooke it not by the waie or meanes of faith ; but onlie with his mouth yet he tooke it ; he tooke that ( himself an infidell ) quod fideles cognouerunt precium nostrum . That precium , was not in the cup before consecration ; S. Ambr. lib. 5. de Sacr. c 5. but after , it was there . Heare another as ancient , and his Catechist when he came into the Church . Ante verba Christi , calix est vini & aquae plenus , vbi verba Christi operata fuerint ibi sanguis efficitur qui plebem redemit : Before the words of Christ , the Chalice is full of wine and water : but when the words of Christ haue wrought , there ( in the Chalice ) is made the blood which redeemed the people . Apol. pag. 89 So he . But Master Waferer wiser then he , Alas fond faith ! if so you beleeue , Lord help your vnbeleefe .

This is all the little , he had in this matter to replie . he had wearied himself it seemes in the former Section ; & his string was broken too , he could not shoote rouing bolts as before he did . and therefore is now contented to lie downe .

Will you see how he lies ? hauing nothing els to do , till he goes into the next Section , I will loose a little time in counting how manie lies I finde heere in one page , the first of this Section ; taking in ( that the sence be compleate ) two lines out of the former , & almost two lines of the later ; least I be forced abruptlie to break him of . I beginne , as he doth , with the Synopsis of the matter .

Apologist .

This Section refutes their construction of those words , The cup is the new testament in my blood .

Censure .

One .

Apologist .

Shewes that there is no substantiall change wrought by them .

Censure .

Two .

Apologist .

That there is not identitie ( materiall he meanes ) in them , vzt of the blood , and the thing whereinto the wine is changed .

Censure .

Three . So farre the Synopsis . Now the Discourse .

Apologist .

By vertue of the words , This is my blood of the new Testament ▪ This cup is the new Testament in my blood , He ( who ? ) will first conclude a substantiall change , and then consequentlie He , will presume identitie in them , but both vntrulie .

Censure .

Four . And yet there is fauour too . For first , in the text , out o● which S. E. if you meane him , defends and auouches the Reall presence of the blood , there is more then you cite ; & he insisteth on words by you omitted ,

Your Doctour had obiected that no substantiall part of any testatour could be properlie his testament , in that sence wherein my Lord heer tooke the words . S. E. answers that this assertion of you Doctour is contrarie to the Gospell which importes as much as this , This drink in forme of wine is my testament which drinke is shed for you . & hence he doth auouch , If shed for vs , it was blood , blood a testament ; and blood is ● part . The text he cites , is in Saint Luke whither he refers you to reade the wordes of our Sauiour , which be the● , This the Chalice the new testament in my blood which it shed for manie vnto remission of sinnes . Secondlie , in that you he , the chang of wine into blood , & the identitie of blood with the thing ●nto which wine is changed , be not ●●ulie auouched out of the text , you ●peak at one time two vntruthes .

Apologist .

I will distinctlie giue answere to this confused Section .

Censure .

Let this passe without a Note ; though the Discourse in the ●ection as he cals it , be distinct and ●leere , not confused : and this Apologist so farre from giuing a distinct answer , that he doth not answer .

Apologist .

Doctor Smith and his Second , admit ( what vpon further try all they denie ) a figure in those wordes of the ●up .

Censure .

Fiue .

Apologist .

Aske them how they vnderstand these words ( this cup is the new testament ) and they replie properlie enough . What then is the new Testament ? it cannot be denied but that it is the last and eternall will of Christ the testatour &c. now how a cup which is no other the● the work of an artificer can be sai● properlie to be this , let who will iudge .

Censure .

Six . They do not saie , that the artificiall cup is either the interiour will , or the authentick signe of it ; as he who will iudge , may see pag. 100. & seqq .

Apologist .

But they proceede to affirme it , ( the cup which is no other then the worke of an artificer , ) properlie to be called a Testament , because ( saie they ) it is an authenticall signe of his will .

Censure .

Seauen .

Iudge now Courteous Reader , whether this be a man to write books an● teach Diuinitie . I will not saie he is either witles or willfullie malicious , t● vent such things in print , the book● being yet extant which he doth thu● impugne : but the learnedst freind h● hath will as easilie maintaine tha● black is white , as defend his innocencie ; vnles ( for I will not think him to be as he termes S. E. cup-hardie , ) as he was an infant , by his Relation , at the time of the Conference , so yet he bee indeed an Innocent . I haue gonne ouer but six and thirtie lines , all lying together or lying alltogether , and allreadie repent me of the losse ( not of my labour , for without labour I found what I lookt for ; but ) of time .

Should a man runne ouer all your booke in this manner , Master Waferer , he would finde this nastie Centon made to couer your needie cause , as full of lyes , as a slouenlie beggars breech is full of ( ) ; though you pretend to be a sworne enimie to that vice ; and so farre , that because equiuocation doth seeme to resemble it somwhat , you bitterlie declaime against equiuocation too ; and challenge more credit to your bare affirmation thē● Catholike is able to deserue ; sending vs this insinuation , publikelie , by the print , Let me tell you , a Protestant hath more reason to be beleeued on his bare word , Wafer . pag. 97. then a Papist , because the Protestants religion ties him to speake the truth from his heart without any mentall reseruation , but the Papists doctrine teacheth him a pretie kind of deceipt called equiuocation , and will not stick to license the loudest lie , so it be aduantagiou● to the cause of Rome .

And he too , Saint Ierome saies , to me seemes an Hypocrite , who saith vnto his brother , staie , let me take a mot● out of thine eie . Our Sauiour himsel● stiles him so ; Hypocrite , first cast th● beame out of thine owne . You tell th● Church of Rome there is in he● doctrine a prettie kind of deceit called equiuocation , which you ar● offering nicelie to take out ; an● cannot see the monstrous lies tha● lie in your owne booke . to whic● ( for they come out of your mout● vpon the paper as thick as wasp● out of a nest , whilst you are spe●king of a prettie deceit which yo● your self impose , you adde an other in your book , that the Papists doctrine will not stick to licence the loudest lie . But who licencied your Book Master Waferer ? whose approbat had you to it ? I should ha●e thought , none , but the Father ●ies , would haue liked it ; it is ●o enormouslie peccant , against faith , and good manners ; so full of ●ies , in matters of both kinds : had I not heard , six monthes ●nd more before the printer ma●e it a coate , where the babe was ●t nurse ; with other circumstances , which are knowne to Mistrisse Feat●ie .

The seuenth Argument was taken out of that place of S. Mathew where the cup our Sauiour drank of , is called the fruit of the vine . It was answered that there were two cups , the Legall and the Sacramentall ; and that those wordes ( as appeares by by the relation of Saint Luke ) were meant of the Legall cup though it had beene easie to answer the Argument had the● beene vnderstood of the Sacr●mentall .

M. Featlie would haue the word spoken of the sacramentall cup a. a.

These words in S. Matt. This fruite of the vine , must haue relation 〈◊〉 the Cup of which S. Matt. spake before : But S. Matt spake of no Cup before , but the cup of the new Testament : therefore &c.

Featlie , Relat. pag 302.

o●lie ; of no other cup then that of the new Testament . And he had his Answer . Now Waferer , seeing it proued in the Relation that they were spoken of the Legall cup ; and Featlies Arguments being impertinent vnles they be spoken of the Sacramentall ; saies that Christ spake them vndoubtedlie of both b. b. Apol. pag 91. cups .

Vndoubtedlie , Master Waferer ? can you demonstrate the thing by Theologicall arguments vnauoidable , and so teach your owne Doctour ? or point out in Scripture the place or places , that affirme it ? No ? not that ; you haue nothing which S.E. hath not allreadie answered : what then ?

Apologist .

What incongruitie is it to determine the matter thus ? S. Mathew and S. Marke relate them to the consecrated cup , S. Luke after to the legall .

Censure .

What incongruitie ? is your vndoubtedlie , no better grounded ? vndoubtedlie your Doctour smiles , to see himself so vndoubtedlie confuted . The incongruitie in your explication , is easilie assigned ; for , our Sauiour said of the Sacramentall cup , this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for many vnto remission of sinnes : and it cannot without incongruitie and infidelitie , be affirmed , that this thing , is the fruit of the vine properlie . We were not redeemed with wine . Moreouer the words of consecration were spoken , & thereby the sacramentall cup consecrated , after supper ; similiter & Calicem postquam coenauit &c. the other words were spoken in supper time , of that cup which was drunck before the consecration of the bodie of our Sauiour : and answerablie to the words spoken of the lambe which at supper they did eate . Desiderio desideraui hoc pascha manducare vobiscum antequam patiar : dic o enim vobis quia ex hoc non manducabo illud ( pascba ) don●e impleatur in regno Dei . With desire I haue desired to eate this Passeouer with you before I suffer : for I say vnto you , I will not any more eate thereof , vntill it be fullfilled in the kingdome of God . Lucae 22. reflect vpon the Notes of S. E. and you will easilie conceaue the matter .

Apologist .

You cannot saie Christs bodie and blood can be receaued either vnworthilie or to death , for to the receipt of them Christ hath annexed the promise of life .

Censure .

The Apostle hath taught vs to distinguish two sortes of Communicantes : some do proue , examine , discusse their consciences , before : and comming with due preparation , do receaue worthilie : these haue the promise of life , supposing they perseuer . others , approaching vnto the table with their hearts bent on sinne , do receaue vnworthilie ; and these offend greiuouslie in so doing . Thus Iudas the traitour , did receaue the price of our Redemption ; which the rest of the Disciples receaued the former waie . they to life : he , to iudgment ; as hath beene declared els where more at large .

Pag. 357. And whilst you denie that Christs bodie can be receaued vnworthilie , you contradict the Apostle , 1. Cor. 11. v. 29. He that eateth and drinketh vnworthilie , eateth & drinketh damnation to himself , not discerning the Lords bodie . Eateth vnworthilie : what ? this bread . What is it ? he tels you before , v , 24. in our Sauiours words , take , eate , this is my bodie which is broken for you . is it damnation to eate this vnworthilie ? yes . Why so ? because it is our Lords bodie ; and he that eates it vnworthilie , discernes it not in the manner of receauing . he eates it as if it were common bread , requiring of it's nature no spirituall preparation , no reuerence ; wheras it is in it self a most holie thing , euen the bodie that suffered for vs ; and as such , with great reuerence , to be receaued .

Apologist .

Saint Paules meaning is that who so commeth to those holie mysteries without that wherewith to discerne the Lords bodie , is guiltie of the bodie and blood of Christ , not in that he hath receaued them ; but in that he hath not receaued them : since they onlie can be receaued by the mouth of faith .

Censure .

Only by the mouth of faith ! How then did Iudas receaue that which the faithfull knowe ( though you do not ) to be the price of our redemption ; if that can be receaued only by the mouth of faith , which mouth the traitour had not ? And What a peruerse exposition is this , whosoeuer shall eate this ( consecrated ) bread ( which our Sauiour v. 24 saith , is his bodie , broken for vs , ) vnworthilie , shall be guiltie of the bodie of our Lord , that is , he shall be guiltie of the bodie , not in that he hath receaued it , but in that he hath not receaued it . He receaues it the Apostle supposeth , and vnworthilie : and heerby he saies , he shall be guiltie . You saie , No : he shall not be guiltie in that he receaues it , vnworthilie , is not this later contradictorie to the former ? Waferers negatiue , to S. Paules affirmatiue : Againe , S. Paul puts the fault in so receauing ; whosoeuer shall eate &c , vnworthilie ; v. 27. and v. 30 For this cause many sleepe &c. Waferer , in not receauing , Not in that he hath receaued , but in that he hath not receaued . Thirdlie S. Paul saies , he eateth & drinketh damnation ; those acts in him are sinfull acts . commission . omission Waferer ; the damnation is for not eating , and not drinking .

Apologist .

Let not him therefore who without due preparation ( and so prophanes the holie ordinance of God ) vnworthilie eates the sacramentall bread and drinks of the cup , think that he d●th communicate of the bodie and blood of Christ , for so he should receaue to his saluation , but let him assure himself howsoeuer he mixe himself with the faithfull at that holie banket , yet he receaues barelie the outward food , and not the heauenlie , which can onlie be discerned and receaued by a liuelie faith .

Censure .

This then Master Mirth , is the substance of the Catechisme you giue such as will beleeue you . The wicked receaue barelie the outward food . Out of which you shall giue me leaue to inferre , Ergo the bare outward food is the price of our Redemption , and , Ergo the bare outward food is the bodie that was broken for vs . The sequele , S. Paul , and S , Augustine , yea and our Sauiour himself , will make good . Take a. a. 1. Cor. 11. v. 24. eate , this is my bodie which is broken for you . b. b. v 29. he that eateth vnworthilie ( the thing giuen when he said take , eate , this is &c ) eateth damnation to himself , not discerning the Lords bodie . c. c. v. 30. For this cause ( for so eating , vnworthilie , ) manie are weake and sicklie amongst you . 1 Cor. 11. Our Lord himself tolerateth Iudas , a Deuill , a thiefe , his seller , he lets him receaue amongst the innocent Disciples , quod fideles nouerunt precium nostrum . that which the faithfull knew our price . S. Augustine , Epist. 162.

Apologist .

After S.E. hath ( so poorelie as not worth the confutation ) iumbled in false witnesses , & cunninglie smothered the testimonie of those two who would condemne him , he is so foole hardy as to affirme that though Christ said of the consecrated cup that it was the fruite of the vine , yet it destroies not his tenet of transubstantiation .

Censure .

Fie Waferer ; will you neuer leaue your lying ? if your booke perseuer in the vice vntill the end ( and it is now verie neere , ) t' will be condemned ; vnles hypocrisie may saue things otherwise obnoxious to the fier , Daré pondus idonea fumo . The witnesses your Doctour brought were Clemens , Cyprian , Chrysostome , The Author de dogmatibus , vnder the name of S. Augustine , the Councell of wormes , and Innocent the third . These were all , and S.E. tooke notice of and answered to them , all : and without adding any more ; as he may know who will turne vnto the place , which is pag. 114. That Christ said of the consecrated cup , it was the fruite of the vine , you find not in his Notes ; though he tels you , the Argument might haue beene answered if our Sauiour had said so . See p. 108. & 117.

Your replie , videlicet , He is called a vine who was , none substantiallie so wine is also called blood which was not so substantiallie , is a begging of the Question , if you meane that your so ; doth import the same manner : and ridiculous , if you intend to haue the later part an illation from the former . The thinge in the Chalice was the price of our Redemption , it was shed for the remission of sinnes ; could this be wine substantiallie , Vide S. Chrys. Hom. 24. in Pri. Cor or in proprietie ? And if in your forme I said thus , S. Iohn is called an eagle who was none none substantiallie , so also Waferers Fathers was called a man who was not so substantiallie , would you approue of the discourse : t' is iust as yours . But now you come to your Postlegomena ; where you recon vp your Doctors great exploites . Whole men belike , he hath diuided at a blow .

Secuit Lucilius Vrbem , Te — Te — . Apol.

What this booke speakes of Doctour Featlie who will rega●d since it contrarily appeares to the world , and can yet be iustified to the doubtfull by witnesses now liuing that he often discouered yôur Fishers hookes , and tooke him with his owne angle ; he hath euer beene Musket proofe ; he allwaise put Sweetes mouth of relish . Egle-stones simples could not work with him . How vnlikelie then is this report that Smith could ouerbeare him ?

Censure .

Ad populum phaleras . Wee knowe the man you speake of . In the Vniuersitie there was an other opinion of him ; and that which hath publiklie appeared since ( euen in those pieces you commend him for ) doth confirme it . Did he but see the Character of himself , which a Scholler drew out of the first of those you name ; he would be sorrie that he euer put it out . By one that was present . I haue heard too , what he said at home in his owne howse , touching the Catalogue then demaunded . A frinde of his , ( Birckbeck in his Catalogue , ) hath endeuoured since , to draw a skinne ouer the soare ; but in vaine . So many seuerall Religions as he names , all those men which he puts downe , could neuer be contained in one Communion . The Wickleffists , Hussites , Waldenses , Lollards : & the Deuines that wrot against them , the Councels that condemned them for Hereticks : were not of one minde all ; were they ? Lateran Constance Yet do you acknowledge those Hereticks your Predecessors ; and put the Deuines and Councels into your Catalogue . Your taske had been to haue attoned them , making it first appeare they were of one Religion , all : and then after , to haue proued by good Euidence that this one , was the Protestant , and no other .

To vnite those Heresies but now specified , amongst themselues , and with Protestants , will be another ten yeeres work for this Collectour ; atque idem iungat vulpes : after which he may spend twentie more , to reconcile the whole multitude of all sorts , which he puts in : and then , when Est & non est be all one , the wound may be drawne vp .

He names Fathers and Councel● too , ( who knowes not that Hereticks laie claime vnto the first Disciples and Apostles , that they challen● the Scripture to themselues , an● would draw God , such is their arrogancie , to their side , obtruding thei● errours for his word ? ) whereas they contradict him flatlie , as hath appeared in the tryall ; and by men of hi● owne side , more learned then himself , hath beene confessed . It hath beene confessed I say that in many , great matters , the Fathers , the Auncients , all the Fathers , all from the Apostles time , the Fathers with mutuall consent , all Antiquitie , the auncient Church , the Church of the first fiue or six-hundred yeeres , the Church in the very beginning , generall Councells , all Generall Councells , are opposite to them . This he may see proued out of their owne bookes in the Conference of Catholike and a. a. li. 2 c. 22. Protestant Doctrine : and in the Protestants b. b. Tract . 1. Sect. 3. Apologie there is instance made in diuers particular points . Neither were it hard for any vnderstanding man that knowes well the true State of the Controuersies betwixt vs and Protestants , to make this Euidentist confesse , that no generall Councell , no Father at all , would euer haue subscribed to the booke of his Confession , the 39. Articles .

If you looke into him , to see how he proues that any one of the Auncients held their tenets , all ; as they are expressed in the 39. Articles ; you loose your labour : he doth not ( though this were the thing demaunded ) as much as vndertake it . Vnles this be perchance a demonstration of the thing , ( suppose I take your † † In the first he puts the Apostles . Dixit & facta sunt second Age , ) Iustine saies , that , as vpon c. c. Alimentum hoc ( eucharistizatus panis & vinum ) appellatur apud nos Eucharistia , quod nulli alij participare licitum est , quàm veram esse nostram doctrinam credenti , & lauachro propter remissionem peccatorum & regenerationem abluto ; ita vt Christus tradidit , viu enti . Non enim vt communem panem neque communem potum ista sumimus ; sed , quemadmodum per verbum Dei caro factus est Christus Seruator noster , & carnem & sanguinem salutis nostrae causa habuit : sic etiam per preces Verbi Dei ab ipso Eucharistiam factam cibum ex quo sanguis & caro nostra per mutationem aluntur , incarnati illius Iesu carnem & sanguinem esse edocti sumus . Nam Apostoli in commentariis à se scriptis quae Euangelia vocantur , ita tradiderunt praecepisse sibi Iesum . Eum enim pane accepto , cùm gratias egisset , dixisse Hoc facite in meam commemorationem , Hoc est corpus meum . Et poculo similiter accepto , & gratiis actis dixisse , Hic est sanguis meus . Iustin. Apol 2 ad Antonin . Vide Bellar. li 2. de Euchar. c. 4. vbi dicit illa verba , Ex quo sanguis & caro nostra per mutationem aluntur , esse periphrasim panis ex quo conficitur Eucharistia , vt sit sensus ; Panis vel cibus ex quo carnes nostrae ali solent , cum praece mystica consecratur , fit corpus Christi . Gods dixit the Word became man ; so vpon our Sauiours dixit bread became flesh . or water , wine . That , the Sacrament whose materia transiens is bread such as men eate , is the flesh and blood of Christ , and That , Christ commaunded , ( this Birckbeck knowes not what . ) Ergo he was a Protestant , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Pope Eleutherius told d. d. See M. Broughtons Eccles. Historie of great Brittaine . 2. Age c. 14. Lucius , that He ( the king ) was Gods Vicar in his kingdome : Ergo one of the two ( if not both ) was a Protestant & would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Policrates and the Easterne Churches contradicted Victor ( who was in the e. e.

Victoris sententiam probauerunt pp. Concilij Nicaeni vt patet ex Euseb. l. 3. de Vita Constant .

Et deinceps Haeretici habiti sunt qui contrarium senserunt , vt pater ex Epiphan. haer . 50. & Aug. haeres. 29 Bell. li. 2 de Pont c 19.

Irenaeus victorem ne tam multas Ecclesias omnino propter traditionis ex antiqua consuetudine inter illas vsurpatae obseruationem , à corpore vniuersae Christi Ecclesiae penitus amputet — appositè & conuenienter admonet . Euseb. l. 5. Hist. c. 24.

right ) about the time of keeping Easter : Ergo they were Protestants and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Irenaeus held the Apostles Creed , and saies too that the Scriptures are ( in their kind ) f. f. Vnum quodque maximè tunc est perfectum cùm propriam virtutem est consecutum ; & maximé secundum naturam : sicut circulus tunc maximè secundum naturam est , quando maximè circulus est . Arist. 7. Phys. ● . 18. Yet is Irenaeus for Tradition verie full , l. 3. aduers . Haeres. c 3 Maximae & antiquissimae & omnibus cognitae , à gloriosissimis duobus Apostolis Petro & Paulo Romae fundatae Ecclesiae , eam quam habet ab Apostolis traditionem & annunciatam hominibus fidem per successiones Episcoporum peruenientem ad nos , indicantes , confundimus omnes eos qui quoquo modo vel per vanam gloriam vel per coecitatem & malam sententiam , praeterquam oportet colligunt . Ad hanc enim Ecclesiam propter pot●ntiorem pr●ncipalitatem necesse est omnem conuenire Ecclesiam , hoc est , ●os qui sunt vndique fideles , in qua semper ab his qui sunt vndique conseruata est ea quae est ab Apostolis traditio . And in the next chapter , Quid antem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis , nonne oportebat o●d●nem sequi traditionis , quam tradideruntiis quibus committebant Ecclesias ; cui ordinationi assentiunt multae gentes Barbarorum eorum qui in Christum credunt sine charactere vel atramento scriptam habentes per Spiritum in cordibus salutem , & veterem traditionem diligenter custodientes , &c By the way obserue what he thought of the Vniuersalitie of Iurisdiction which the Church of Rome hath Necesse est omnem Ecclesiam , &c. and his reason , propter potentiorem principalitatem· The words of Eusebius if they be well lookt into , import the same , ne à corpore Vniuersae Christi Ecclésiae penitus amputet . vt supra , perfect ; that our Sauiour taking g. g. Accipiens panem , suum corpus confitebatur ? ( how ? the Euangelist declares , Iesus tooke bread , and blessed i● &c and said , take , eate , This is my bodie . Mat. 26. ) & temperamentum calicis sui sanguinem confirmauit . ( this is my blood of the new testament ; which is shed for many vnto remission of sinnes . Ibi●em ) ● . Iraen li. 4. c. 57. Our Sauiours words , the words of consecration were practicall , and did inferre what they signifie ; as you see by Antiquitie confessed , Suprà , pag. 479 & seq. where this Father is also amongst the rest . And that he did vnto he change require omnipotencie as principall , you may know by his owne wordes also , li. 4. c. 34. Quomodo constabit ●is ( he speakes of Hereticks who denied our Sauiour to be omnipotent , ) eum p●nem in quo gratiae actae sunt , esse corpus Domini sui & calicem sanguinis eius , si non ipsum Fabricatoris mundi filium dicant , id est Verbum eius , per quod lignum fructificat , &c. bread into his hands said Hoc est corpus meum , the words of consecration ; that the G●osticks vsed Heatheri●h rights towards h h Artes magicas operantur & ipsi ( Carpocratiani ) & incantationes , philtra quoque & ●h●titesi● &c dicentes se porestatem habere ●d d●m●●ādum iam principibus & fabricatoribus mundi huius . S. ●ren lib. 1 c. 24 Gnosticos autem se vocant , etiam imagines quasdam quidem depictas , quasdam autem & de reliqua materia fabricatas habent , dicentes formam Christi factam à Pilato illo tempore quo f●i Iesus cum hominibus ; & has co●onant & proponunt eas cum imaginibus mundi Philosophorum , videlicet cum imaginibus Pythagorae , & Platonis & Aristotelis & reliquorum ; & reliquam obseruationem circa eas , fimiliter vt Gentes , faciunt . Ibidem . im●g●s ; that the Disciples of Basilices vsed inchantments and called on i. i. Vtuntur & ( qui sunt à Basilide ) imaginibus & incantationibus , & reliqua vniuersa pa●erga : nomina quoque quaedam affingentes quasi Angelorum annunciant ; hos quidem esse in primo coelo , hos autem in secundo , & deinceps nituntur 365. ementitorum coelorum & nomina & principia & Angelos & virtutes exponere , S. Iren l. 1. c. 23. The Church did not thus : yet she honoured the good Spirits : as by one of the same Age , S. Iustine whom you cited as a Protestant you may knowe , He speakes in the name of Irenaeus and Polycarp and the whole Church of that time ; Sed & illum ( Deum Patrem , ) & eius Filium qui venit nosque haec docuit , & aliorum sequentium , similiumque bonorum Angelorum , exercitum & Spiritum Propheticum 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 colimus atque adoramus , verboque & re seu veritate veneramur : idque omnibus qui discere volunt , vt docti institutique sumus , copiosè tradimus . Apológ. 2. ad Anton. Spirits , but the Church not ; that there is no way to be saued but by beleeuing in Iesus Christ ; Neither is there saluation in any other , for there is no name vnder heauen giuen amongst men whereby wee must be saued . Acts , 4. v. 12. Ergo he was a Protestant , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Melito putting downe the bookes of the old Testament saies l. l. The Scriptures themselues were not fullie receaued in all places , no not in Eusebius his time . He saith the Epistles of Iames , of Iude , the second of Peeter the second and third of Iohn , are contradicted The Church of Syria did not receaue the second Epistle of of Peeter , nor the second and third of Iohn , nor the Epistle of Iude , nor the Apocalyps . The like might be said of the Churches of Arabia . Will you hence conclude that those parts of Scripture were not Apostolike , or that wee need not receaue them , because they were formerly doubted of ? Bilson in his Suruey , pag. 664. See Couel against Burg. 87. & seqq . Tbe Protest . Apol tract . 2. c. 2 sect. 10. subd 2. nothing k k Simon dicebat secundum ipsius gratiam saluari homines , sed non secundum operas iustas . S. Iren. l. 1. c 20. of Iudith &c. Ergo he was à Protestant and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles . See Gretser his defence of Bellarm. de verbo Dei .

Clemens Alexandrinus , saies our Lord † † Vinum benedixit cum dixit , Accipite &c. l. 2. Paedag . c. 2. Sanguis vitis , verbum , quod pro multis effunditur in remissionem peccatorum , sanctum laetitiae fluentum allegori●● significat . Ibidem . blessed ( not beare , but ) m. m. The same would Elfrick saie ( touching the other kind ) when he tells you , there is much difference betwixt the bodie Christ suffered in , and the bodie that is hallowed to how sell . That which the Priest consecrateth , and that which our Sauiour tooke , was bread : and there is great difference betwixt bread and a mans bodie . But after consecration , he tells you : In that holy housell there is one thing in it seene , and another ( not seene , but ) vnderstood : that which is there seene , hath bodilie shape ; and that wee do there vnderstand , hath ghostlie might . The housell is dealed into sundrie parts , chewed betweene teeth , and sent into the bellie . Howbeit neuerthelesse , after ghostlie might , it is all in euerie part . See aboue , pag. 330. the testimonie of Stephanus Eduensis about whose time this Elfrick is by the Protestants said to haue liued ; and of Lanfranck Archbishop of Canturburie , who liued soone after : and tells what was the beleefe of England and of the world , in this point , at that time . vt vere dici possit & ipsum corpus quod de Virgine sumptum est nos sumere , & non ipsum : ipsum quidem quantum ad essentiam &c. hanc fidem tenuit a priscis temporibus , & nunc tenet Ecclesia quae per totum orbem &c. Suprà pag. 331. wine , that he had learned to walke vpon earth , not ( absolutely and for it self ) to n. n.

Relatiue honour , in due circumstances , he denies not . Put of thy shoes , for the place wheron thou standest is holie ground . Exod. 3 , The Israelites were commaunded to bow before the Arck , which had in it two Cherubins made of gold . Adore his footestoole because it is holie . Psalme 98 And they did so : Venerabantur quondam Iudaei Sancta Sanctorum , quia erant ibi Cherubim , propitiatorium , &c S. Hieron . Epist. ad Marcell . Marke that Quia . The Prophets , their directors , knew the meaning of Adorate scabellum , and Non facies tibi sculptile , better , I trowe , then Iohn Caluin .

As for Clemens Alex. the learned know that his discourse in the booke obiected is against the Pagan Idolatrie . Cur o stolid● ( he speakes to the Heathens ) & inanium rerum dediti cogitationi , coelestem locum maledictis incessentes , pietatem ac religionem in so●●m detraxistis ? Terrestres Deos ( Mercurium , Iouem , &c. ) vobis fingentes , & haec g●nita ante Deum ingeni●um . persequentes , in profundiorem incidistis caliginem . Pulcher est lapis Parius , sed nondum est Neptunus . Pulchrum est ebur , sed nondum est Olympius . Materia semper arte indiget . Deus autem nullius indigus . Cle●ens Alex. in Protrept . siue Orat. adhort . ad Gentes . Ego ●utem terram ( those Idols , made of gold or other pre●ious matter , were originallie of earth : and therefore ●e calls them so , ) calcare didici non adorare : non enim ●●hi fas vnquam rebus inanimatis credere spes animae . Ibidem . Mercurium tanquam ianitorem &c. si tanquam ●nsensibiles eos iniuria afficiunt , cur adorant vt Deos ? Romani autem qui res maximas & praeclarè gestas For●onae attribuunt , & eam esse Deam maximam existi●ant , posuerunt eam in sterquilinio : dignum Deae templum , secessum tribuentes . Ibidem .

●●pridius whose words are vsed to proue Christian Churches had no pictures in them , speakes of Idols . Alexander ●mperator Christo templum facere voluit , eumque inter Deos recipere : quod & Adrianus cogitassé fertur , qui templa in omnibus ciuitatibus sine simulachris ius●etat fieri , quae hodie id circo quia non habent Numina , dicuntur Adriani , &c. Lamprid. 〈◊〉 Alexand ,

worship it ; Ergo he was a Protestant , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

The Church of Smnirna could not be ●nduced to leaue Christ and worship any other for him ; and they did o o 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 looke your Dictionarie great Rabbin . And read againe S. Iustins words , suprà pag. 546. honour his honourers ; Ergo they were Protestants , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Polycarp when he gaue thankes to God for calling him to Martyrdome , did not inuocate the Saincts ; Ergo he was a Protestant , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

Hegesippus liued in this second age he was of the Iewish Nation ; and was afterwards conuerted to Christianitie : Ergo he was a Protestant , and would haue subscribed to the 39. Articles .

These are the men , all that he names in the † †

In the first Age ▪ he names Christ and his Apostles ; which is a begging of the Question . Vide Collationem doct Cathol. a● Protest . cum , expressis S. Scripturae verbis . Parisiiis anno . 1622.

Adding two more : S Denis , citing his book , ex qu● Pontificij m●lle petunt testimonia , saies Cook and S Ignatius , in whose few Epistles be many testimonies against Protestants ; whereof ●ome haue beene obiected to Featlie vpon the like Challeng , by D. Weston .

second age , ( Birckbeck ▪ In the second age from 100. to 200. Iustine the Martyr . Hegesippus . The Church of Smyrna , touching the Martyrdome of their Bishop Polycarp . Melito Bishop of Sardis . Pope Eleutherius his Epistle to Lucius , the first Christian king of Britai●e . Polycrates of Ephesus , and the Easterne Churches , touching the keeping of Easter . ●●enaeus Bishop of Lions . Clemens Alex●ndrinus . )

These I saie , be men which he brings ; and I haue brieflie pointed at ●is proofe , running it as I did , suddainlie ouer : for though he were long ●n making , I do not think the booke worth serious reading . If any of his Parish thinke the forsaid Arguments ●e good , I pittie them . Sapientia pri●a est stultitia caruisse .

Some there , will see by this little ●ight , how easilie his pretence may be ●ut of by the neck . The head of it , is his claime to our Sauiour and his Apo●●les , whose words in Scripture you thinke , and would force vs to be●eeue , be Protestantish . Whereas the ●earned on both sides know the Scripture ( and consequentlie the Writers and Authors of it ) to be for vs , so d●rectlie , that Protestants refuse to stā● vnto the proper sence . An experienc● whereof the Reader hath seene in th● Question here discussed , wherei● Scripture is for Catholikes so man●fest that our Aduersaries themselu●● confesse , Suprà , pag. 293 they must yeild vs the ca●se if it be taken 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , properlie .

The trunc of a mans bodie bein● deuoid of life and soule that conta●nes and holds all together , quickl● resolues , rendring to each element h●● owne share . The imagination is n●● sooner quiet but the Chimera whic● it had made vp of diuers and repu●nant natures , ceaseth to be ; the n●tures remaining the same they we●● before it fell a working . It was Birc●becks phantasie that raised vp t●● corps of his pretence , assembling d●uers and repugnant Religions to m●ke vp a Protestantish bodie : but no● that he hath betaken himself to re●● things appeare iust as they were b●foré . Catholikes be Catholikes ; A●●ans , Arians ; Lollards , Lollards . No ●atalogue appeares of men , whose ●eligion were currant amongst you ; ●ho did they liue now ( beleeuing 〈◊〉 they beleeued ) would subscribe to ●e 39. Articles of your Church .

Had the Saints whom you recite , ●mbrose , Austine , Basil , Cyrill , Gregorie , ●eo , Chrysostome , &c. had the Fathers ●hat were in the Councels of Nice , E●hesus , Chalcedon , beene borne and ●●ued amongst you sometime within ●ur memorie , one may guesse what ●ntertainement they should haue found . It doth appeare , by the testimonie of a. a. Whole succeeding Ages , which professe to haue receaued these things , and their Religion generallie , from them . more men then are in England ; it is knowne by their owne confession , that they did beleeue and frequent b b

S. Ambros . lib. de Sacramentis . Where also he doth expound ▪ the Masse . S. Aug. Conc. 1. in Psal 33 Nondum erat Sacrificium Corporis & Sanguinis Domini , quod Fideles norunt , & qui Euangelium legerunt : quod Sacrificium nunc diffusum est ●oto ●●●e terrarum . And his Mother to went to Masse . l 9. Conf. c. 13. S ▪ Basil Homil. 19. Et in Liturg. S. Cyrill . Cateches . Mist . 5. Where h● doth likewise expound the Masse . S. Grego . Hom. 1. de Resurrec● Non expectat Pilati iudicium , sed per ineffabilem & arcanum S. crificij modum sua dispositionè & administratione praeoccupat impetu● violentum , ac sese in oblationem & victimam offert pro nobis S●cerdos simul & Agnus Dei . Quando hoc accidit ? cum suum corp● ad edendum , & sanguinem suum familiaribus ad bibendum pr● buit . Cuilibet enim perspicuum est , quod oue vesci homo non poss● nisi comestionem mactatio praecesserit : cum igitur dedit discipul● suis corpus ad comedendum , aperte demonstrauit iam fuisse perfec● & absolutam immolationem . It is not Mortons obiectiue tantu● non subiectiue , that he beleeued . S. Leo Serm. 7. de Pass . S. Chr●sost . li. 3. & 6. de Sacerdot . & Hom. 17. in Epist. ad Hebr●● Id ips●● semper offerimus &c. Vnus vbique est Christus , & hic plenus exstens , & illic plenus , vnum corpus . Et in Liturg. Conc. Niceu . Act. & can . 14. Conc. Ephes. in Cyrilli Anathem . The words a● cited aboue , pag. 350. and they destroie Mortons euasion 〈◊〉 obiectiue tantum : so doth all that hath hetherto beene sa● of the reall presence . Conc. Chalc. act. 3. in dam. Diosc .

The like is easilie showne of the rest of those he names , 〈◊〉 S. Ierom. Aduers Virgil. c. 3. & Epist 150. ad Hedib . q. 2. S. Hilar , 3. ad Const. S. Epiphanius . Haeresi 55. & Epist. ad Ioh. Hier. Optat● Il. 6 de Schis Donat. S. Gregor. Nazianz. Orat. 3 4. & 5. S. Athana● who was as the Councell of Nice , can . 14. S. Cyprian . l. 1. Epi● 19. & l 2. Epist. 3. Whereunto adde the Sermon de Coena . S. I●stin . Mart. Dialo . cum Triphone . S. Irenaeus li. 4. c. 32. Calicem q● ex ea creatura quae est secundum nos , suum sanguinem ( Iesus ) co●fessus est , ( Hic est sanguis meus noui testamenti qui pro mult● effundetur in remissionem peccatorum , Matt 26. ) & noui test●menti Nouam docuit oblationem , quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis ac● piens , in vniuerso mundo offer● Deo .

vnbloodie Sacrifice , c. c. S. Aug. li. de cura pro mortuis . c. 1. In Machabaeoru● libr●s legimus oblatum pro mortuis Sacrificium : sed etsi nuquam in Scripturis veteribus legeretur , non parua est Vni●ersae Ecclesiae quae in hac consuetudine claret Authoritas ; ●bi inprecibus Sacerdotis quae Domino Deo ad Altare fun●●ntur , locum suum habet etiam commemoratio mortuorum , 〈◊〉 cap. 4. Non sunt praetermittendae supplicationes pro ●piritibus mortuorum , &c. and l 9. Confess. c 13 he ●e particularlie commends his dead mother to the prayers of Priests , meminerint ad altare tuum &c. S Chrysost. Hom. 41 in 1. Cor. & Hom. 3. in Epist. ad Phil. Non fru●ra haec ab Apostolis sunt legibus constituta , vt in Ve●●erandis inquam atque horrificis mysteriis , memoria eorum fiat qui decesserunt , nouerant hinc● multum ad ●llos lucri accedere , multum vtilitatis Epiphan. Haeres . ●5 Dicebat Aerius , qua ratione post mortem nomina●is nomina mortuorum ? &c. quis autem mag●s de his ●ouit , hicne seductus homo qui etiam nunc superest , ●ut qui ante nos fuerunt , habentes ante nos traditionem in Ecclesia , qu●que etiam a Patribus fuis traditum ●acceperunt , quemadmodum etiam hi à suis Patribus qui ante ipsos fuerunt , &c. Prosunt & praeces quae pro ipsis fiunt etiam si totam culpam non abscindant . Where he teacheth against Aerius the Heretick , that this i● a Tradition in the Church receaued a Patribus . See the Collation l 2. c. 23. S. Cyrill , Hier. Catech. Myst. 5. Pro omnibus oramus qui ante nos vita functi sunt , maximum credentes animarum iuuamen pro quibus offertu● obsecratio sancti illius & tremendi quod ante nos positum est Sacrificij See more concerning the antiqu●tie of this custome , in S. Iohn Damascens Oration , Quod desuncti Missis iuuentur , offer for the dead , communicate wit● the d. d. S. Ireneaeus l. 3. c 3. necesse est propter potentiorem principalitatem his words are cited aboue pag 544. S. Hiero. Epist. ad Damas . Cathedrae Petri communione consocior , super illam petram aedificatam Ecclesiam scio . S. Aug. Epist. 162. Romanae Ecclesiae in qua semper viguit Apostolica● Cathedrae principatus . Optat. li. 2. adu . Parm. Leo magnus● Epist. 84. ad vnam Petri Sedem Vniuersalis Ecclesiae cura conflueret . Concil. Chalced. Relat. ad Leonem , sicut nos Capiti membra sic summitas tua filijs . S. Greg. in Psal. 5. Poenit. Caput omnium Ecclesiarum Romanam Ecclesiam . Vide Coccium in Thesau . Tom. 1. l. 7. a. 6. See of Rome : and heare , ye● and many of them e. e. The Liturgie which was vsed by S. Ambrose , is yet extant . and so are the Liturgies also of S. Basil , and S. Chrysostome . Vide S. Ambros . Epist. 33 ad Marcellin . for . Proclum de tradit . diu . Liturgiae Petr. Diac. ad Fulg. c 8. Syn. Trull . can. 32. circa quem canonem vide Suarezium disp. 75 , sec. 1 , In the Liturgies , names , haue beene added . See Perron , pag. 817. saie , Masse . I hope no Pursuiuant ouer heares me . Whist ! let vs talke of some thing els ▪ least inquirie be made after S. Peeter too , who ( be it spoken betwixt vs two ) did the same . Hetherto he hath escaped , for no Pursuiuant with his commission euer found the way thither where he is .

He that amongst the Fathers is pretended in the Catalogue for most points , is S. Augustine , who is , Birckbeck saith , against Church-tradition , the reall presence , worship of images , inuocation of Saincts , merit and efficacie of workes donne in grace ; and held onlie two Sacraments : whence he leaues his Parish to conclude , he was a Protestant . But when he thinks the thing is donne , the taske returnes againe . Saint Augustine did hold and maintaine a. a. S Aug Epist. 118 de Corr. & gra c. 13. de Spiritu & lit . c. 17. merit of works donne in grace , Ergo he Was no Protestant . He allowed inuocation of b. b. L● . 20. cont. Faust . c. 21. l. 21 de ciuit . c. 27. de cura pro mort . c. 4. de bapt l. 7. c. 1. Saints , Ergo he was no Protestant . He did approue of honour giuen to c. c. In Ioan. tract. 36 , de cons . Euang. l. 1. c. 10. de Trinit. l 3. c. 10. Doct. Christ . l. 3. c. 9 Epist. 103. reliques , holie signes , and the Crosse or Crucifix , Ergo he was no Protestant . He admitted d. d. Li. 2 con Petil. c 104. l. 2. con . Ep Pa●m . c. 13. de bono coniugij c. 24. more Sacraments them two , Ergo he was no Protestant . He beleeued the e. e. Epist 162. Conc. 1 in Psal. 33. l 9. Conf. c. 13. l. 2. con . Adu . leg . c. 9. reall presence to the signes and mouth , Ergo he was no Protestant . He receaued bookes of Scripture according to the iudgment of the Catholike f. f. Con. Epist. Fund . c. 5. de doct. Christ . l. 2. c. 8. Church , Ergo he was no Protestant . He submitted his iudgment to the g. g. Lib. 1. de Bapt. c. 18. l. 2. c. 4. & 9. l 5. c. 17. de vnit . Eccl. c. 19. lib. 1. cont. Cresc . c. 32. 33. de vtil . cred c. 17 See the Confessio Augustiniana . He that subscribeth must admit all your Articles but the deniall of one or two is enough to make one to be no Protestant . iudgment of the Catholike Church in a Plenarie Councell , Ergo he was no Protestant .

Shall I looke a little further into the Catalogue ? Who be heere ? Gregorie our Apostle , Austine the Monk , Venerable Bede , Charles the Great , Saint Anselme , Remigius , Columban , Venantius Fortunatus , Theophilact , Oecumenius , gratian : what ? Were these Protestants ? It seemes by the Collectour . And rather then want ( impudence ) he fills roomes with Monks and Abbots . and S. Bridget is there too . Schoolemen also , ( for he hath opened a case to let in all , ) Peeter Lombard , Bonauenture , Ockam , Holcot , Alexander Hales , Ariminensis , Gerson , Biel , Scotus : any bodie , euerie bodie .

So he but professe himself a Christian , what shall hinder ? Suppose him a Papist , as a. a. Li. ad Eugen. de consid . c. 8. Bernard ; he may be in . Or a Pope , as b. b. Epist. 84. ad Anast . & Serm 3. de anniuers . assumpt . Leo the great , he may be in . If he maintaine worship of images , as c. c. Lib. 4. de fide orthod c. 12. & 17. Damascen , he may be in . If he defend prayer to Saints and for the dead , as d. d. In 4. Sent. dist. 45. qu 1. & q. 4. a. 1. Durand , put him in too . Eusebius Caesariensis was an e. e. S. Athan. l. de decret. Syn. Nicen. S. Hier. adu Ruff. Syn. 7. act 5. Arian , yet he is in . Tertullian was a f. f. Hieron . de Script . Eccles. Montanist , he is in . The author of the bookes g. g.

Birck . pag. 157

S. Thom. In his Theologicall Summe : and in his Commentarie vpon the bookes of Sentences .

de Ecclesiastica & coelesti Hierarchia , he stiles a Knight of the post ; and yet hath put him in . Nothing that I can see keepes one out . S. Thomas held the lawfullnes of Communion in one kind , prayer to Saints , worship of images , merit of works , vnbloodie Sacrifice , transsubstantiation . He was a Friar , and a Massing Priest , ( as they speak ; ) he acknowledged the Popes Supremacie , and submitted his iudgment to the Church : yet S. Thomas is in . Take heede Reader , ( whateuer thou be , ) of writing ; for if he finde thy name in print , he will put it in too .

If he names not these for Protestants , where 's the h h Edant origines Ecclesiarum suarum●e uoluant ordinem Episcoporum suorum &c. Tertull. lib. de de P●aesc . c. 32 Qui estis ? quando & vnde venistis ? Quid in meo agitis non mei ? — Mea est possessio ? Olim possideo , prior possideo Ibidem c. 37. Catalogue ? In his Epistle to the Reader he tels of a Catalogue of their Professors , which the dispute in his Parish occasioned him to drawe : and that Featlie did encourage him to go on with it , and put in , and put out : and this is the ten yeeres work . In which time it seemes he forgot what he was all the while about .

The men he fawnes on most , be Wickleffists , Hussits , and Leonists o● Waldensians , who themselues could not showe their Catalogue of Predecessors . neither were they of the Protestant Religion , as my Lord of Chalcedon hath demonstrated in his book● de Authore & Essentia Religionis Protestanticae . But do you not think Maste● Birckbeck , that some in England haue their eies vpon an vglie foule Consequence that attendes the maintainin● of such men , Wickleffists and Hussits , to haue beene in their times the Church of God , and the purer part of it ? One of their tenets is , ( and if they were . the Church of God , their Authoritie was not little , ) that a man by a mortall sinne looseth his a. a. Nullus est Dominus ciuilis , nullus est Praelatus , nullus est Episcopus , dum est in peccaro mortali Wickleff . art. 15. Conc. Const. sess. 8. & Hus ibidem sess. 15. a. 30. dignitie , whether it be Ecclesiasticall or Temporall . another , that b. b. Wickleff· apud Waldens . tomo 1. l. 2. c 8 , & 9 Hus in Conc Const. sess. 15. Praesciti non sunt partes Ecclesiae , cum nulla pars eius ab ea finaliter excidet , eo quod prae iest in●tionis charitas quae ipsam ligat non excidit . See the Protest Apol. tract 2 c. 2. sect. 4 & 5. and sect. 3 ●t is confessed also of the Waldenses , that they h●●d Neither Priest nor ciuil magistrate being guiltie of mortall sinne , enioy their dignitie or are to be obaid . none but the Predestinated be in the Church . Where such Maximes ( and they be their Maximes , ) be fixed in the mind , what obedience , what loyaltie , what order can be expected either in Hierarchie or in Monarchie ? Sure , where all sinnes are of their nature , c. c. Habeant filij Dei omne peecatum mortale esse , quia &c. Calu. l. 2. Inst. c 8. ● . 59 Wickleff . apud Wald● to . 2 , de Sacram. c. 54 & seqq Lutherus vero in def. a●● 32. dixit omne opus hominis iusti esse peccatum , ex natura sua mortale . See Abbots , and whittak . mortall , ( another Maxime amongst amongst Puritans ) a Prince that had subiects so instructed , had need look about him .

But enough ; to much much of this Waferer , is it not ? Let vs dismisse Birckbeck with his Euidence , and make an end of our owne work . Ye● staie : take your Fathers blessing before you go . Kneele you too , Mirth .

Martinus d. d. Cont Artic Louan . thes● 27. Lutherus . Haereticos seri● censemus & alienos ab Ecclesia Dei Swinglianos & Sacramentarios omnes , qui negànt Christi corpus & sanguinem ore carnali sumi in Venerabili Eucharistia .

Fie , for shame : was this a godli● course ; to sollicite men first , from th● Catholike faith and Church ; then t● ride to Oxford to look out anothe● ( if any blind one might be found ) i● D. Potters librarie ? Did you not e. e. Ne si fort esuas repetitum venerit olim Grex auium plumas moueat cornicula risum Fu●tinis nu●●data coloribus . feare , when f. f. Coccius l. 8. a. 10. Lutherans g g h. Ibidem a. 4 Prot. Apol. Wickleffists , and ( h ) Hussites should be heard to disclaime , as they do , from your Profession , that your nakednes would appeare ? The partridg , Ieremie saies , gathereth yong which she hath not brought foorth . He gathered riches & not in iudgment ; in the middest of his daies he shall leaue them : and his later end shall be a foole . A throne of glorie of height from the beginning the place of our Sanctification . O Lord , the expectation of Israel , all that forsake thee shall be confounded . Ierem. 17.

Perdix nimis contentiosum animal , notum est quanta auiditare ipsius contentionis currat in laqueum . Non enim disputare amant Haeretici , sed quoquo modo superare impudentissima peruicacia , vt congregent quae non pepererunt . Christianos enim , quos maximè Christi nomine seducunt , iam per ipsius Christi Euangelium natos inueniunt , & faciunt illos diuitias suas non sanè cum iudicio , sed cum temeritate ▪ inconsiderata , Non enim intelligunt ibi esse veram & salubrem , & quodammodo germanam atque radicalem Christianam Societatem , vnde istos separauerunt , quos ad suas diuit●as congregauerunt . S Augustin . lib. 13. contr. Faust . cap. 12. Et tanquam ille quem catech●zamus quaerere● & diceret , Quo ergo signo manifesto , adhuc paruulus & nondum vaiens liquidam discernere à tot erroribus veritatem ; quo manifesto indicio tenebo Ecclesiam Christi in quem iam credere tanta rerum antea praedictarum manifestatione compellor ? Sequi●ur idem Propheta , & tanquam motus animi eius ordinatissimè excipiens , docet eum , Ecclesiam Christi ipsam esse praedictam quae omnibus emine● & apparet . Ipsa enim est sedes gloriae de qua dicit Apostolus , Templum Dei Sanctum est quod estis vos . vnde iste dicit , Sedes autem gloriae exaltata est , sanctificatio nostra . Propter hos enim motus paruulorum qui possunt seduci ab hominibus à manif●statione claritatis Ecclesiae , Dominus quoque prouidens a●t , Non potest ciuitas abscondi supra montem constituta ; quia vbiquo sedes gloriae exaltata est sanctificatio nostra , vt non audiantur illi qui ad scissuras traducunt dicentes , Ecce hic est Christus , ecce illic . Partes enim ostendunt dicentes , ecce hic , ecce illic : cúm illa ciuitas super montem sit ; quem montem , nisi ●um qui secundum Prophetiam Danielis ex paruulo lapide creuit , & factus est mons magnus , ita vt Impleret vniuersam terram ? Ibidem cap. 13.

Staie . I had forgot a fine Argument . The Hussites held Scripture Ergo they were Protestants . The Arians held Scripture , Ergo they were Protestants . Thus you may proue a Lutheran to be a Caluinist : and he by turning it will proue you to be a Lutheran . an Arian by it will proue you to be an Arian , and euerie Heretick include your ( if the Argument hold ) within his Sect ▪ and communion And if you plead that you contradict the Church of Rome ; so did they .

As the challeng of particular men doth appeare manifestlie to be vaine when the proofes be lookt into , so likewise doth the challeng of whole Churches . The Protestants haue trauelled ouer all the world , to seeke ; & finde none : not a Church before Luther ( since indeed they haue corrupted some , as England for example , ) whereof they can say This Church Was Protestant . They will tell you that there are diuers who do not acknowledge obedience to the See of Rome , ( surelie , a deepe research ! who knowes not there haue been too many Schismaticks and Hereticks ? There must be Heresies . 1. Cor. 11 ) but if you demaund whether they will iustifie all the tenets of those Churches , they shrink the shoulders and say plainly , No. whereas the demaund is for a Church or Churches whose tenets they will iustifie , and which reciprocallie would iustifie their tenets .

To say they were Protestant in the fundamentalls , is both false , and insufficient . They say the same of vs ; yet confesse wee be not Protestant . You shall heare them speake of great multitudes of men , more then are in the Latine Church , ( not sure more then in the Catholike , which doth speake all languages , ) Nestorians , Iacobites , Arm●nians , Abassines or Aethiopians and Aegyptian Christians : Greekes , and Muscouites . but idlie .

To iustifie the a. a. The Heresie of Nestorius is recorded by S. Augustine S. Dama●cen , Vincent . Lirinensis , Theodoret , &c. Nestorians is to condemne the Councell of Ephesus where their errour was oecumenicallie b. b. And againe in the Councell of Chalc. act. 5. condemned . And to iustifie the c. c. Their Errours be recorded , by Photius , Nicephorus , Prateolus , Baronius , Iacobus Vitriacus , and Miraeus . Iacobites , d. d. By the same authors . Dicunt ( Armeni ) carnem Christi in diuinitatem esse conuersam , &c. Euthymius in Panoplia p. 2. t 20. Armenians , e. e. By Co ignus de rebus Abassinorum . Abassines & f. f. By Damasc . de Haeres . & Baronius , ad annum 452. Aegyptian Christians , is to condemne the great Councell of g. g. Conc. Chalc. act , 5. Nam & in duos filios disp●nsationis tentantibus diuidere sacramentum , resistit hostiliter , & eos qui passibilis audent diuinitatis vnigenitum dicere , collegio sacerdotali detrudit , & confusionem siue commixtionem in duabus Christi naturis excogitantibus reluctatur , & coelestem vel alterius cuiusdam substanriae esse quam de nobis assumpsit sibi formam seruilem , delirantes , extermi●at : necnon & eos qui duas quidem ante vnitionem vnam vero post vnitionem , naturas in Christo fabulose confingunt , anathematizare non cessat . &c. Concilium ibidem , de Leonis Epistola ad Flauian . Chalcedon , and with it the whole Church . And the Grecians ( with whom the Musco●ites , you confesse , agree , ) when your communion was offered , h h Censura Ecclesiae Orientalis . And in Coccius and Gualterius , you may see their frequent testimonies ; and of the Affricans , and Asians also , against you . refused it . What then will you do with these names , Where be the men wee looke for ? Where is the Catalogue of Protestantish Churches , in all former Ages ?

You tell vs of Christians in Europe , in Affricke , in Asia , and in America the new world . This wee knew before . The Quaere was of yours . where were they ?

To say that these , some , haue deposed their Errours , doth not answer the demaund : but shewes it is not answered . For , the thing lookt after , is a Catalogue of such Churches as you will iustifie ; and , which the Fathers would haue allowed , as Orthodox : ( of Hereticall Churches euerie one can easilie make a Catalogue ; there be many i. i. By S. Aug. S. Epiphan. Pratel . Gualter . &c , Catalogues allreadie made : ) whereas , if you confesse that these Churches haue deposed their errour ▪ ( errours oecumenicallie condemned , ) you confesse withall , ( a thing otherwise k. k. By the Authors aboue cited , it is manifest . The Nestorians held against the Councell of Ephesus , and refused it . And the Iacobites , Armenians , Abassins ▪ and Aegyptians , all spotted with Eutichianisme , refused that of Chalcedon . euident , ) that once they did maintaine them . and , if so , then by the iudgment of the l. l. Euticheans and Nestorians were condemned by the Catholike and Vniuersall Church . whole Christian world the men were not Orthodox .

Howbeit , had they become sound and Orthodox , it followes not that they would haue subscribed to your Articles , or were Protestant . yea the contrarie would follow . They haue beene indeed m. m. Iacobites , Nestorians , Abassins , Russits , Greeks , and Armenians , haue made ouertures of returning into Communion with the See of Rome . The particulars are in Miraeus lib 1. c 18. returning to the bodie from which they separated themselues , the Catholike and Vniuersall Church ; and were againe n. n. The Graecians , Armenians , and Indians were vnited to the Church in the Councell of Florence . Acta Conc. Flor. in Decret. Eug. Platina , Chalcondas , Aemilius . Vnder the name of Indians are the Abassins , and Aegyptians . Prat. Gord. Vide Sand. Monarc . an. 1432. pag 556. vnited some of them , which doth likewise hinder their standing in your Catalogue . But you cannot possiblie finde them in a state wherein write them yours : much lesse can you truely say they professed your Religion ( that which is now currant in England , ) many o. o. The demaund is of Protestants in all ages : men ; whole Churches ; or , one Church ; and you must not forge your Euidence . hundred yeeres together .

How many , and which , do still persist in their ould Heresie or Schisme , there is no neede to looke : since the men were not Protestant . The fewer , the better ; no doubt : for you know that p. p. Galat. 5. Schismatickes and q. q. Tit. 3. Hereretickes ( how r. r. Matth. 20. great so euer the multitudes of them be , ) be not saued . s. s. S. Aug. Epist. 152. hoc solo scelere . Whosoeuer is deuided from the Catholicke Church , how laudablie soeuer he seeme to liue , for this onlie crime that he is separated from the vnitie of Christ , he shall be excluded from life , and the wrath of God shall remaine vppon him .

M. Waferer , where are you ? mille ●ui Siculis errant in montibus — . you think I fell into this discourse for want of a particular answer to that you said in your Doctors commendation . Repeate it , if you please , againe ; and I will discharge the debt .

Apologist .

What this booke speakes of Doctor Featlie who will regard ? since it contrarilie appeares to the world ; and and can yet be iustified to the doubtfull by witnesses now liuing , that he often discouered your Fishers hookes , and tooke him with his owne angle ; he hath euer beene Musket proof ; he allwaies put Sweetes mouth out of relish : Eglestons simples could not work with him .

Censure .

Heere you serue in , fantasticallie after your manner , the Catalogue ( of Protestants ? no : but ) of your Doctors Conferences . And the first , not in time but in the booke , is that with the 2. Fathers of the Societie . His Cause , which was ( and but of late ) engendred ex putri materia , comming ( to molest and infect the world ) out of the nastie sinke of damned Errours , and pretending to great Antiquitie with good and honourable descent , was called vpon to giue account thereof , and of such as had knowne and entertained it formerlie in all ages thorough which it saies it came . At the sight of which Question ( after many shifts and much wriggling , ) it became speachles ; and , out of weaknes falling to the ground , was giuing vp the foule ghost . When lo , the Doctour to restore and relieue it , bestirs himself , and puts out the Relation which you point at , and after it , Additions , and , Aremonstrance , and A Discussion . A defence . An Answer . A Replie . Another Replie . &c. So many , that the volume by the continuall agitation of his sting , his stile I should saie , grew to be as bigge as pestilent . Magnum de modico malum scorpium terra suppurat : tot venena quot ingenia : tot pernicies quot & species Nicander scribit & pingit : & tamen vnus omnium violentiae gestus de cauda nocere ; quae cauda erit quodcunque de posthumo corporis propagatur & verberat .

The name of this b. is in the forhead , in red and black characters . The Romish Fisher caught and held in his owne Net . But , laqueus contritus est . The a. a. This is your booke , S●●tes illa nodorum ve●●nata intrinietus venula subtilis , ar●uato impetu insurgens , hamatilo spiculum in●●mmo tormenti ratione restrangēs booke Master Waferer , ( though M. Fishers Question be not , ) was b b A Replie to D. white and D. Featlie , anno 1625. answered .

I adde , that it hath beene proued by the confession of the learnedest of of Protestants , and such as haue laboured to finde out Protestant predepecessors , that before Luther there were c. c. De authore & Essentia Protestanticae Ecclesiae & Religionis Auth. R.S. Parisiis anno 1619. none . So hard a thing it was for your Doctour , though he set a face on it and promised a buttery d. d. Featlie in the Conference , pag 14. booke of names , to shew the Catalogue . And in the comparison of your doctrine to the Scripture , it hath appeared that you e. e. The Conference of the Catholike and Protestant Doctrine with the expresse words of holie Scripture . by R. S.D D. and extant now in English . See al o the Anchor o● Christian faith , by D. Worthinghton . contradict it , directlie , in many places ; in so much that you refuse to stand vnto the natiue and f. f. Suprà , pag. 293 , proper sence of Gods words . So easie had it beene for M. Fisher ( had he beene willing to diuert from the Question proposed in writing ) to haue answered the Doctors g. g. I charg you as you will answer it before Chris● — answe● now , Whether you beleeue that Christ & his Apostles t●ught our faith or yours . Featlie Relat● pag. 29. coniuration .

The next of those you point at , is the Conference with M. Musket , whereof wee spake pag. 376. & seqq . looke there . The third is his Conference in writing ( that it is I suppose you meane , ) with M. Sweete ; where I finde an Embleme of that within your head , the Vertigo . Long agoe the Caluinists were on the h. h.

Becanus le Circulo Caluinistilo .

Forme is not in matter , if the disposition faile : or , if the prime cause doth not concurre .

wheele . The Catholickes feare it not . He that beleeues the Scripture for the Church , and the Church for the Scripture , if the resolue into them diuerslie , windes not in a circle . The diuine authoritie auouching the booke , Motiuum principale . Motiuum subordinatum . may be the formall motiue inclining a man to beleeue both the bookes and the Church : and the proposition of the Church may dispose his vnderstanding to beleeue that the bookes called Scripture ( the Apocalyps for example , and the Epistle of Saint Iude , ) are auouched by diuine authoritie . He that said i. i.

S Aug con Epist , Fundam . c. 5.

In locum traditoris Christi qui successerit , in Apostolorum actibus legimus ; cui libro necesse est me credere , si credo Euangelio : quoniam vtramque scriptutam similiter mihi Catholica commendat Authoritas . Ibidem . Vide eundem li. 2 de Doct. Christiana . c 8.

Ego veró Euangelio non crederem , nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret Authoritas , did not exclude diuine Authoritie , but principallie resolued into it ; though the same act depended , as he professeth , on Church-authoritie withall . When the words are examined you will finde them to be of full waight . non crederem † † Apocalypsi non crederem , nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae eommoueret authoritas . Infantes baptizari posse● & debere non crederem nisi me Cath. Eccl. commouere● authoritas . Baptizatos ab Haereticis , non esse rebaptizandos non crederem nisi me C. Eccl. com . authoritas . Are you moued without it ? nisi . and commo●eret authoritas Ecclesiae . and that Catholicae too .

The fourth , is his Conference with M. Egleston , who did ( as Featlie relates ) vndertake to prooue against him that , for an Accident ( quantitie ) to be supernaturally conserued without a subiect , is no contradiction . Is there any ? Will it be true , Quantitas est ; and Quantitas non est ? It requires naturallie a subiect , true : but it self is not the subiect . and some thing may supernaturallie haue lesse then it doth naturallie k. k. A man cannot be without au●nal , because it is within his essence . The subiect is not so within the essence of an ac●iden● . Some things are defined , simpliciter : some , per additamentum . See Arist. in 7. Met. c. 3. & ibidem S Tho. require : as well as others haue supernaturallie more then they naturallie do require .

Our Sauiours humanitie hath not the subsistence which were naturall vnto it ; but another . It subsisteth in the Word .

Doctour Eglestons Argument , as it appeares by Featlie , was grounded in this , that God could supplie the action of the second cause . Whereunto your Doctour answered that it was true in genere causae efficientis , In Featlies Relat●ons , pag. 132. non in genere sustentantis . this was his distinction . It was replied , that sustentatio was actio , and omnis actio est causae efficientis . Your Doctour answered , Omnis actio non est causae efficientis . adding that , there be three other causes haue also their action , ( I cite the words of his owne Relation , ) and concurre † † A ver●all shift , vnworthie of a Doctor : in the triall of a point of faith . actiuelie to their effect ▪ and his first instance is in matter .

Staie Doctour ! What ? matter , potentia passiua , pure passiua , doth that concurre actiuè ? is it an agent ? hath it actiuitie ? Is this doctrine currant now in our English Vniuersities ? I do not think it . Sure I am that it escaped the Peripateticks , whose slownes could not apprehend it . Their bookes must be mended , for passiue is actiue ( it had beene a matter lamentable to haue said this in the Grammar Schoole , ) & as well , actiue may be passiue . The efficient vnde motus as such may be mobile the subiect , because the subiect now is vnde motus the efficient . This is one of the Doctours Victories , which he hath Chronicled himself : wherein I must needs say he proceedes consequenter . For , where suffering is doing , vinci there is vincere . The efficient doth agere by it's forme ; and is moued to , but in another kind by the finis : whereupon there might be found a reason to extend the word motion to their causalitie . But to call the causalitie of matter by that name , or by the name of a Physicall action ( Grammaticalis , makes not to this purpose , the Disputant neuer meant it knowing it to be impertinent ) is a meere abuse of words . Materia non est principium actionis sed se habet vt subiectum recipiens actionis effectum . Finis vero & Agens & Forma , se habent vt actionis principium , sed ordine quodam . Nam primum quidem principium actionis est Finis qui mouet agentem . Secundo verò Agent . Tertio autem Forma eius , quod ab agente applicatur ad agendum . Quam●os & ipsum agens performam suam agat , vt patet in artificialibus . Artisex enim mouetur ad agendum a Fine , & C.S. Tho. 1. p q 105. a. 5.

After this last Answer giuen by Doctour Featlie ( they be the Doctors owne words ) in the verie words aboue written or to the like effect , Featlie p. 133. Doctour Egleston notwithstanding his former great vaunt , Of this disputation with M Wood , see aboue , pag. 468. was content to giue ouer his Argument : & the companie intreated Doctour Featlie to oppose M. Wood &c. Thus the Chronicler of his owne proclaimed triumph , for which your lines adore him .

These Conferences are all in that volume . That which S. E. lookt on , is not there ; but in another booke called the Sacriledge : wherein the Doctour would seeme to haue begunne his Catalogue , in one point ; by naming men , in euerie Age , that did acknowledge and auouch a Diuine precept obliging the Laietie to both kinds to be contained in those words of Scripture which the Protestants do cite for that purpose . I said , he would seeme to do it : for he that reades the booke will finde no such a. a. Metaque feru●dis euitata rotis . matter as he pretendes . And yet , had he donne it , this had beene , he knowes , far from exhibiting that which was harangued for , or performing the taske wherein he was engaged ; which was , to produce and make good a Catalogue , of Protestant beleeuers , in all points , and all ages .

Notwithstanding , hauing made a noise , he begins ( as if Hercules labours had beene laboured ouer againe , ) to shake his knottie club ; and after a publike challeng , solemnlie proclaimed and in bitter termes against M. Fisher ( as ; In his challeng . pag 252. his leaden treatise , his ragged stile , his white liuer , his Midas Reader , his collapsed Ladies , the distracted braines of the penner , &c. ) he casts him of contemptiblie , to come into the Relation of his Encounter with my Lord .

Mouet ecce † † Sophisticen . tridentem Postquam vibrata pendentia RETIA dextra Nequicquam effudit ; nudum ad spectacula vultum Erigit , & tota fugit agnoscendus arena .

This is all : Master Waferer . I finde no more Victories in your booke , yet one more he might get , you think ; if to help you , who hetherto haue endeuoured to helpe him ; he set on me . But the meaner Scholler I am , & the greater he conceaues himself to be , the lesse I neede to feare . Genuinum fregit in illis . Bigger are but butterflies in his esteeme ; and eagles , you know , catch not after flies .

In tauros Libyci ruunt leones Ne sint papilionibus molesti .

This motto he made to be inscribed in his Escocheon , in the place where he tooke leaue of other Aduersaries , to come to fight the combat which wee talke of . You and I , at most be but Seconds ; and , if I be no better than you , verie poore ones . Such as a Scholler without arrogancie may think no great honour to ouermatch . If twentie yeere ago he were a match as you pretend , for D. Smith , the now Bishop of Chalcedon ; & hath laboured and exercised himself in Controuersies euer since ; for him now , to crush me , were no conquest . I am not I confesse , more able then S. E. who did answer , Waferers Elogium of S. E his Notes , which are aboue , p. 9. & seq . you say , but stammering lies so poorelie as not worth confutation . his sophistrie is slender and boyish . The ABC . of Logick may teach him . And would you haue your Doctour , your Champion , so much aboue S. E. to come , and with his hoast of Paralogismes , in your armour , least he be knowne ; to set on me ? Egregiam vero laudem , & spolia ampla !

Yet howeuer it happen , know this Master Waferer , Statuam quam erexisti non adoramus . I honour the truth ; I beleeue the Sonne of God ; I am a Catholike , so assured of the diuine prouidence directing his Church , that he who doth oppose it shall neuer be my Oracle . Your censer shall not come into my hand , though my Censure come into your Doctours , and be perchance , torne by it .

Apologist .

Sensere quid mens rite , quid indoles Nutrita faustis sub penetralibus Posset .

Censure .

Nouimus , expertis crede , QVANTVS In clypeum assurgat , quo turbine torqueat hastam . Occidit , óccidit , Spes omnis , & Fortuna nostri Nominis . Fuimus * * Is the Barchelour a Brittan ? Troes , fuit Ilium .

Apologist .

How vnlike then is this report that Smith could ouerbeare him ? If surelie he had no other tooles then these wherewith to quitte himself of those blowes were giuen him , no question but he was soundlie hammered . And whereas his Lordships Chaplaine seekes to salue vp the matter with this afterclap ( the Relation ) those which but ouerlooke it must needes confesse , it hath donne him this second iniurie , to publish his weaknes .

Censure .

Smith , and toole , and hammered ? quam frigid ! Was it so soone out of your mind that an impenetrable adamant suffereth nothing , Waf p. 94. whilst the hand which offereth it violence is disabled with it's owne blow ? This it is , when a man hath the luck to light otherwile on a good metaphore , but hath not wit enough to see where to put it . Things come into your imagination , as images thorough a little hole into a dark roome ; where men are seene walking with their heeles vpward . To rectifie them , arte is necessarie there ; and reflexion , heere : which if the Reader vse , he will finde my Lorde , aboue ; and your Doctor , vnder , in the combat . And these two Writings , of S. E. and the Bachelour that speaks to you , to be so farre from discouering any weaknes , that had our pens beene answerable to his worth , this booke might remaine to posteritie a liuing monument of his successe in the Dispute . But this our paines to him was not needfull ; himself thereby did prouide vnto himself a fairer , in the soule of M. Kneuet , who taking light , and conceauing life in the Conference , and ●ince dead in peace , is engaged now to thanke him in eternitie .

Apologist .

Doctor Featlies able seruice to Gods Church is farre to eminent to be eclipsed by anie Doway Satyre .

Censure .

In these times , when Mirth writes Diuinitie , I may saie as the Satyrist did , Difficile est Satyram non scribere . though the Readers will finde the booke of S. E. to be farre from that nature . Whilst you talke heere of your Doctours seruice to eminent to be eclipsed , you bring againe into our mind how partiallie ( not to saie absurdlie ) you exalt him so high as to thinke his excellencie appeares vnto the world : and how irreligiouslie you haue incensed so many lines ( all , in this Pamphlet , ) to the Chimera of his opinion , which you think sits in Maiestie within the clowdes . Caput inter nuhila . condit . See aboue pag 448 and pag. 120.

Apologist .

The Papists doctrine teacheth a prittie kind of deceit called equiuocation .

Censure .

That which is properlie equiuocation , hath for it the authoritie of God and man . No booke , I do not excepte Scripture , but hath it . One thing there is , which some think , is , others think is not , indeed , equiuocation ; that I meane which you glaunce at when you speake of mentall reseruation : which , howeuer it may haue priuate abbetters , as other opinions haue , is no tenet of the Church .

But answer me one Question Master Waferer ; He that should saie this is my bodie , when he meant onlie that it was the figure of his bodie , should he not equiuocate ? And , if a world of sincere people , taking his words plainlie as they come ( without explication ) from his mouth , should be deceaued by this equiuocation , what would be thought of it ? Reflect vpon the matter well . The lie which you adde to this your Censure of equiuouocation , is censured els-where . it is this , that the Papists Doctrine will not stick to license the lowdest lie , so it be aduantagious to the cause of Rome .

Apologist .

Supra pag. 526 , There haue beene those impudent pens which durst traduce the most eminent patternes of Christianitie , and affirme that worthie B●za , and Doctor King , recanted their Religion with their last breath .

Censure .

If they did , the better it was for them . Whether M. Whether M.T. B. reconciled Doctor King , as I haue heard ; or did not ; imports not our cause . Lupus , the prouerb saies , pilum mutat non mentem .

As for Beza , what a patterne of Christianitie he was being a Protestant , this white paper will not haue me paint vpon it . Some thing of him , & of the rest of your great patternes , & out of Protestant Authours , you may reade in Master a. a. Protestants Apologie . At their names in the Index you haue direction to the places . See also Luthers life &c. with a further discourse touching Melancthon , B●cer , Beza , &c. By the same Author . printed at ● . Ome●● , anno 1624 : Brierleys booke , and more might easilie be added , fowler then the inke that were to characterize it , if men were disposed to drawe them to the life . Such goblins you should see , walking , at once , ( did the print conspire in it ) in manie places , and so horrid , ( were the inside indeed turned outward ) as would make many pale , to looke vpon them .

Apologist .

And now Sir S. E. not to dallie with you any longer , ( hetherto , true , you did nothing els , ) I am to let the world know ( a merire world belike , where Mirth is generall cryer , ) that our Doctour is not that flincher , nor Master Kneuet that turnecoate as you storie them .

Censure .

Proiicit ampullas . But it is to late now ; for Featlie is such a flincher , as he is storied . The storie of his tergiuersation is true . Lions the b. b. Arist. Hist. Animal l. 9. c. 44. Philosopher saith , sometimes do runne away . And M. Kneuet thereupon did turne also . But to giue loosers leaue to speake , what euidence do you preten● ?

Apologist .

For the liklihood of your Lords challinging Doctor Featlie in England , the Reader may reflect on my answ●r to your 23. page .

Censure .

That he was challenged , was not told you . That Featlie refused to meete him in Conference , twice in England ; once , before a L. another time before two B. is true . The conferences were vndertaken at the request of others , who remember the circumstances well enough : & so doth your Doctours owne Conscience too . But wee must returne forsooth , to the beginning of your booke , for another story , where we may looke for euidence to the contrarie , as long as your Doctor was lookt for by Master Kneuet , when he was to defend his Cause ; and not find it . Where is it in your booke ? in the sixt page . well ; I am at the leafe ; speake on .

Waferer . In England there were two Proclamations out against his Lordship to attach him , and is it liklie that a man lurking to saue his life would ( a great while before this happened ; many yeers c. c. It was before M. D. Smith was Bishop , in the time of his Predecessor my Lord William of Chalcedon . before : ) send two challenges ( one lie , as bigg as two , ) to my Lord of Canturburies Chaplaines in his howse ?

Censure .

Is this all ? so , then we haue heard the first part of the proclamation . On cryer , to the second thing which you were to signifie to the world . yet staie . Now I am come to the former place whence I went , I finde another peece , appertaining to this half .

Apologist .

Where you accuse him for declining a second conflict in Paris , I answer ( that is well donne ) that in Paris he could not meete his Lordship , ( why so ? he was sent vnto , and as soone as he was found , was called vpon , from my Lord . see the Relation pag. 119. & seq. ) because his honour had so contriued the matter that he left the towne before D. Featlie had leaue from the Ambassadour , whose Chaplaine he was , to encounter him .

Censure .

How ? Not leaue , from the Ambassadour , in Fraunce ? This excuse is to sillie to acquit your Champion from cowardize . Not leaue ? Belike the Ambassadour knew how he had disgraced himself before , when he brought his arguments in a paper , & Master Porie for pittie helpt him out . Could he get leaue in England , of his Lord of Canterbury , to dispute , so many times : and afterwards to print his Disputations , of Religion ; & not get leaue in Fraunce , of an Ambassadour ? Fie , Fie , Waferer ; the more you stirre , the worse — it is . Some other would haue feigned a better tale to saue his honour .

Apologist .

That our Doctour did neither distrust his cause nor himself , in respect of him , is apparent , ( that 's good : now or neuer a demonstration , or some cleere argument ; for the game is at a dead lift . and your Doctours credit hangs , inter sacrum saxumque : ) because after this Conference with D. Smith he had a Disputation at Paris with D. Bagshawe : ( alac ; this is no demonstration ; ) a man of greater note ( did Featlie tell you so ? ) and antiquitie then his Lordship , ( well : your inference ? ) and therefore your slanders and detractions ( heere is a bitter storme , ) are groundles and improbable .

Censure .

And therefore — improbable . Is this all ? vix vrceus . I lookt by your braue vndertaking for a conuiction by cleere euidence . this , neither brings in the thing lookt for , nor hangs together , Master Featlie disputed since with D. Bagshawe ; Ergo , he distrusted not himself in regard of Doctour Smith . As well you might haue said , Ergo he distrusted himself ( & the tergiuersation was a signe of it , ) in regard of D. Smith . seeing that , neither then , nor since though meeting others , he durst meete him . And , Ergo he tooke D. Smith to be the greater Scholler : as not daring to encounter him any more , though he had leaue and list and opportunitie to a. a. I do not think him willing to see a true Relation of that Conference , ab●oad in print trie himself , on some others .

Apologist .

As for Master Kneuet that he died no Papist as you report , but a most zealous Protestant , one Master Russ●l , & diuers other without exception , yet liuing are readie dailie to testifie against you .

Censure .

Diuers other ? Your self , and Featl●e : be not you the diuers other ? If you be ; you may strike out againe those words , without exception . He speakes in his owne cause ; and makes vse of you to vent his inuentions . In that regard your testimonie cannot serue : and in another too , Qui s●mel verecundiae limites transilijt — . It is not long since you were taken with a lie .

But , Master Russell ; where dwells he , in V●opi● ? One who was in Paris at the time of the Conference , writes , ( I haue it vnder his hand ) thus . Master Kneuet after the Disputation told me that he did like and think better of the Catholik Religion . He much commended M. D. S. new L. Bishop of Chalcedon , for his temper ; confessing that Master Featlie was to weake to vndertake him : and that he thought fewe men could haue spoken better then my Lord did . He disliked M. Featlies cariage , because it was immodest . He highlie commended the solitarie and vertuous liues of the Carthusians and other Religious persons . In fine he told me that he would go for Italie , and prouiding himself for the iourney took with him four or fiue letters in his commendation ; from Catholike Doctors of this towne to their freinds and acquaintance there . And I heard afterwards , that in Venice he died a Catholike .

It is still to be seene in their Librarie , now at Arras Colledge in Paris , with his name by himself written in it . Another , who was at the Conference ; thus . What opinion M. Kneuet had of the Disputation and the Disputant , appeared sufficientlie in this , that he thereupon brought his Bible of the Heretickes translation , which he had brought out of England with him , to D. Smiths lodging being then in Cambray Colledge , giuing it to the common Librarie . But when M. Featlie according to his promise was to come into the list and answer before D. Smith , he like a coward cryed crauen , and quite forsook the field : for M. Kneuet hauing beene three daies in seeking him as he said , could heare no newes of him . But , saith he , I see will enough how th● world goeth : and so resolued to become a Catholike . which Religion , he did afterwards professe in his life time , and also dyed in it , at V●mice : being marryed after the Catholike manner to a Catholike Gentle woman .

Heere be two against your one . I will not name them , till I know where to heare of your Master Russel , who ( if he will manifest himself and abide the tryall ) may know their names time enough though it be not hard to guesse what measure those are like to haue ( if Puritans prescribe it , ) who come in to testifie against you . And in the meane time , the Reader desirous of further satisfaction , may , if he please , inquire of M. Doctour Rainer , who liues in Paris at Aras Colledge , and was himself at the Conference , & acquainted with M. Kneuet , what he knowes in the matter .

Apologist .

Your curtesie in lending me this work of your frinde S. E. hath made you the occasion of a great d●ale of charitie , which hath cleered both our Doctour and our cause . In requitall of the large encomium you gaue the author , I haue iustified our Doctors merit ; from whose esteeme he seekes to derogate . In some lines my pen may , seeme to gall him , but I le make no Apologie .

Censure .

You will do well indeed to forbeare making more Apologies ; for your cannot make them well . But what charitie is that , you talk of ? your diligence hath laid open the nakednes of your beggarlie cause , call you that charitie ? For vs to laie it open ; that men detest and abhorre so fowle an heresie ; and to defend those who maintaine our Sauiours doctrine , and the cause of God , this ( Master Waferer ) is charitie . This vertue loues God aboue all : and riseth vp when there is need , in defence of His and his seruants , honour . It takes vnto it 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 the whole armour of God , and armes it self to the casting ●wne of vaine imaginations and e●●rie high thing that exalteth it self ●●ainst the knowledge of God .

But , you haue cleered you saie your ●●use . Because perhaps , by your mea●es it appeares a meere fiction which ●efore your Masters had acknowled●ed to be a meere figure . Yet someti●es , by your leaue , you would haue ●●st a clowde ouer it , being asha●ed that men should see their con●eipt naked , bread-a-figure● : no more . ●ou are ashamed of this . If you mea●e other cleering , that is , giuing cleere ●nswers as in the beginning you did ●rofesse to do , to distinctions , sure you ●aue not made any thing cleere , vn●es it be this that indeed you cannot ●nswer . Heere and there , you haue ●auilled at a fewe peices of the Relation : ●hat is all I finde in your long Pam●hlet . Wherefore I may tell you as ●aint Augustine once tould a Gram●arian who trifled in like manner , Si ●ropterea respondisti quia tacere noluisti , non quidem ad omnia , sed tamen respo● disti .

Apologist .

If the bodie be substantia●lie in the Sacrament , then is there a tr● a. a. The like Confession there is in D. Morton : and is cited aboue , pag. 293. Sacrifice : and if so , then pro v● uis & defunctis . if for the dead , then s● such as are capable of release ; and co●sequentlie for release of Soules out of P●●gatorie .

Censure .

Let me make vp the Syll●gisme .

But the bodie is substantiallie in th● Sacrament , by the testimonie of o●● Sauiour himself , This is my bodie . Mat● 26 , This is my bodie which is giuen f●● you . Luk. 22. This is my bodie which broken FOR you . 1. Cor. 11. All the W●ferers in the world cannot proue th●● was a meere Wafer .

Ergo there is a true Sacrifice , a● FOR , pro , viuis & defunctis , &c.

The Apologie hauing beene lo●● time drawing towards an end , is the last period now , giuing vp t●● Ghost . The faith it pleades for , is substance this , vizt , that is not o● Lords bodie which he said was his bodie : ●●d the Authors Spirit is Protestan●sh , for he presumes that he discernes ( the bodie , ) better then the Catho●●ke and Vniuersall Church that was ●●fore Caluin , could . If now at his ●●st Apologeticall gaspe , he would but ●●de an act of Hypocrisie to his Pro●●ssion , the Continuator of Acts and ●onuments might write his name in ●●d letters .

Apologist .

For my part it shall be part 〈◊〉 my continuall thanksgiuing to him in ●hom onlie wee can see light , that wee ●●ue not so learned Christ , but can better ●●scerne of the Lords bodie .

Censure .

O the Saint !

Apologist .

Vale.

Censure .

Longum Iucunde Vale , Vale. Ah! littles Toyes ! awaie awaie , ●ollow your Master . If I haue now & ●hen smiled in his companie , it was ●is companie drew me . Being quitt ●f it I returne to serious thoughts a●aine ;

Et Laet longum valedico Nugis . Apologist .

Hic Rhodus .

Censure .

Mirth 's .

But S.E. tould vs of another .

Apologist .

Hic saltus .

Censure .

Out of the frying pan into the fire .

Exit Magister . Exit Baccalaureus .