Hagiomastix, or The scourge of the saints displayed in his colours of ignorance & blood: or, a vindication of some printed queries published some moneths since by authority, in way of answer to certaine anti-papers of syllogismes, entituled a Vindication of a printed paper, &c. ... / By John Goodwin, pastor of a Church of Christ in Colemanstreet.

HAGIO MASTIX , OR THE SCOURGE OF THE SAINTS .

IT was a sad expression of Luther in his dayes , when he said , wee should finde cause to melt and be dissolved into teares , if wee seriously consider what strange errours we have stumbled upon , that there is not so much liberty now allowed to any man , as to speake the Truth a a In lachrymas meritò solveremur , si nobiscum perpenderemus in quos errores impegerimus , ut n●c ●odie liberum sit veritatem dicere . Luth. Postill . . Yet if this were the worst of those times he complaines of , he lived in a golden age , in comparison of the dayes which are already in part come , and attempted by some with an high hand to be brought yet in fuller measure , upon the faithfull servants of God in this Land . It is a small thing for the Spirit which works in many of the sonnes of high Presbyterie , to deny men libertie of speaking the Truth ; the very inquiring and asking after Truth , is made wickednesse and blasphemy , impudence , audaciousnesse , yea little lesse then Atheisme , or Devilisme it selfe , by the angrie suggestion and clamorous imputation of this Spirit . That in saying these things I put this spirit to no other rebuke , then what the Truth it selfe , and its owne professed noone-day actings and workings doe witnesse against it , needs none other Sect. 2. proofe or demonstration , but onely the perusall of the fift page , of a late Pamphlet , entituled , A vindication of a printed paper , &c. against the irreligious and presumptuous exceptions ( irreligiously and presumptuously so called ) called , Some humble and modest Queries . In the said page , that importune spirit wee speake of , foameth out his owne shame in these words ( amongst many others of like unchristian inspiration ) Who are you sir , that have dared in your heart to conceive such A WICKEDNESSE AND BLASPHEMIE , as this Querie contains in the bowells of it ? And againe — I summon all Readers in the name of God and Christ , to looke upon them , and to stand amazed at your IMPVDENCE , that have been so AVDACIOVS as to AFFIRME , or insinuate &c. — The man ( if yet he be a man ) hath not yet the one halfe of his mind in railing and revenge upon a Christian and honest action and designe , but querieth the Querist further , with this modest and humble Querie : what are you that speake thus ? An ATHEIST , or a DEVIL ? If he be an Atheist , he is one of that Order , who worship the true God in Spirit and Truth : If a Devill , it is in such a sense , wherein his Lord and Master was the Prince of Devills . If they have called the Master of the house Beelzebub , how much more shall they call them of his houshold a a Mat. 10. 25. ? He that takes pleasure in the Dialect of a railing and reviling pen , without any mixture or allay of sense , Reason or Religion , may satiate himselfe when he pleaseth , with the fragments and remainders of the said page , with the better ( or rather , worse ) halfe of that which followeth .

Who is the Syllogizer , or Author of this vindication , I am not Sect. 2. in the least desirous to know ; nor doe I intend ever to bestow two words upon the inquirie : I can pray for him , though unknowne , upon that ground , on which our Saviour prayed for those that crucified him , ( if his condition will admit it ) Father , forgive them : for they know not what they doe b b Luk. 23. 34. . Many conceive that the Licencer , and Author , have but one Name between them ; of which apprehension though there be more reasons and grounds then one , and more especially the many loose assertions ( that I say not falsifications ) in the discourse it self , yet for my part I determine it not ; onely this I conceive , that whoever is the Author , is but a personated , though highly pretended , Friend to the Parliament ; but that what he is in love and friendship indeed , he is to their enemies , Sect. 3. and those that labour to lay the honour as well of their persons , as proceedings , in the dust . And whereas in the very frontispiece of his booke , he flourisheth over his designe , as if it were ( at least in the principall branch of it ) the Assertion and maintaining of the Magistrates Authority both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall matters ; yet this outside compared with the inside of the booke , shewes it to be but like the Apothecaries box , which hath Pharmacum in titulo , in pixide venenum ; physick in the title , but poyson in the vessell . For first , he that shall not onely teach and incourage , but even necessitate and compell ( urging by way of duty , and conscience , being an high compulsion , in the kind , ) Caesar , not to be content with the things that are Caesars , but to lay claime unto , and hand upon , the things that are Gods : and secondly , shall ( in the same sense ) necessitate and compell the Parliament , to such actions , which apparently tend to the deep discontenting , if not to the utter destroying of those persons in the Land ( at least the most considerable part of them ) of whose fidelity unto them even in the face and presence of death , they have had proofe upon proofe , and proofe upon proofe againe , and that above , and beyond all contradiction , ( both which are cleerely the materiall , if not the formall designe , of the said vindication ) Whosoever I say shall lift up his hand to either of these , is ( without controule ) no friend to the Civill Magistrate , much lesse to the Parliament ; except that be friendship to sow discord between friends , or to perswade men upon specious pretences , to destroy their Preservers , yea and those , who if the clouds should returne after the raine , are more likely then any other generation of men that I know this day under Heaven , to be their Preservers the second time . It is a shrewd signe , that they that set men on worke to tread downe the hedge , would willingly have the corne troden down also .

Whereas the Syllogizer undertakes to know ( for he asserts it Sect. 3. without scruple ) that the Queries were put forth , as to stop , if it were possible , the Houses proceedings in it , ( he meanes the printed paper ) so howsoever to blast what they should doe in the pursuance of it , and the Parliament also , ( as if the two Houses were one , and his Parliament another , ) if they doe , or shall doe , any thing therein &c. doth he not lift up himselfe into the throne of God , and fit and judge the reines , and secret intentions of the hearts of men ? I will notasperse Sect. 3. him with the filth of his owne kennell , or aske him , whether he be an Atheist , or a Devill , to write thus : but certaine I am , that the tenour and straine of this accusation is purely Satanicall ; being drawne to the life according to that patterne , Job 1. 9. Doth Job serve God for nought ? For as the Devill seeketh here to traduce and imbase that externall course of sanctitie and uprightnesse which Job held , by falsly charging it with sinister ends and motives ; so doth the Syllogizer ( be he one , or be he more , or be he Legion ) in the words tendered , most unworthily calumniate , and deprave the Christian and candid intentions of him who advanc'd that honest paper of the modest and humble Queries ; his ends therein being neither to stop , whether possible , or impossible , the Houses proceedings in it , nor yet to blast what they should doe in the pursuance of it ( as this angry Dreamer surmiseth ; ) but onely to minister occasion unto the members of both the Honourable Houses religiously to consider , how they might proceed and walk with a streight foot in the pursuance of it ; and keep off at a due distance from the importune and violent counsels and suggestions of Presbyterian Interests ; which without all peradventure , are of the most sad and threatning portendence , amongst all our dangers to this State and Kingdome , if they be not reduced by the wisdome and courage of both Houses of Parliament . Lord , make thy servants in both Houses , wiser then their enemies : Lord , make them wiser then their teachers : Lord , keep them from such Teachers , who are their enemies . But as for the Querist , he in his , both intentions and desires , in order to the Parliament proceedings for the suppressing of errours and Heresies , is so farre from seeking to make a stop of them , or to blast whatsoever they shall doe in this kind , that his soule longeth as for summer fruit , to see the methods of Heaven , the wisdome and will of God for so blessed a purpose , as the suppression of errours and Heresies is , first discovered , and then vigorously prosecuted and pursued , by the Parliament , or whoever otherwise shall be found lawfully interessed therein . Yea he is so farre from intending to blast any thing the Parliament shall doe according to the will of God , for this end , that if any such course as this shall be effectually advanced by them before the terme of his breath be expired , he professeth , as in the presence of God , that he shall rejoyce over it as the characteristicall felicitie of his dayes . Sect. 4.

Which Christian and cleere Intentions of the Querist , in putting Sect. 4. forth the said Queries , considered , it had been no such supererogating act of Charity in the Syllogizers ( for being in the way of my Reply , tidings are brought unto me , that they are certain striplings of the Assembly , that have laid their Logick together to advance that summe of Syllogismes with their Answers , which must as it seemes , serve in stead of a sufficient Answer to the Queries ) but be they sonnes of this , or of what other Interest soever , it had been no such supererogating act , or worke of Charity , as to have drawne the suspicion of Popery upon them , in case they had not , for a word , suppose unproper , or lesse considerate , arraign'd the Author at the barre of their Tribunall , as a man guilty of impudence , wickednesse , blasphemy , Atheisme , yea and Devillisme it selfe ; yea and besides all this , have so devoutly , solemnly , and Apostle-like , commanded and charged , that he be delivered up unto Satan by his owne Church or Congregation a a Pag. 5. and 6. of the Vindication . . If this be the spirit that rules in the aire of Presbytery , it is like to be an element agreeing onely with the constitution of Iim and Ojim , of Owles and Satyrs and dolefull creatures , and not for Christian , sober , or peaceable men . But the Church or Congregation he speakes of , know well ( I question not ) that the wrath of man neither worketh , nor adviseth , the righteousnesse of God ; and that the zeale of Presbytery hath so farre eaten up the reasons , Judgements , Consciences of many of her children , that they have not so much of any of these left as wherewith to discerne any thing from Blasphemy , or what deserveth casting out unto Satan which courteth not the Classique cause . It is no hard matter , either for them , or any other men , to see thus farre into the chambers of high Presbyterian secrets , by the glasse-window of the Antapologie , ( in the light whereof the children of that way can hardly give over rejoycing to this day ) the Author hereof requiring of the Churches of Christ , as they would vindicate the glory and honour of Christ to call their Pastors to an account and admonish them , and bring them to publick Repentance for their publick sinne , ( the emphasis whereof is their anti-presbyterializing ) or else upon impenitencie and obstinacie , to cast them out of their Churches b b Antapol ▪ p. 307. ; as if the power of Excommunication and delivering up unto Satan , were given by Christ unto his Churches , chiefly to take vengeance upon the enemies of High-Presbyterie , as Blasphemers , and Sect. 5. the grand enemies of the honour and glory of Christ himselfe . Though I conceive that my Anti-querie-men ploughed with Mr. Edwards heyfer in drawing that long furrow upon the back of the Querist which hath been complained of , and have learnd of him to charge Churches as they regard the honour of God , and our Lord Jesus Christ , with that super ▪ christian duty , of delivering up their Pastors unto Satan ; yet reflecting upon themselves ( it seemes ) as men of a more Apostolicall , sublime and sacred investiture then he , whose merits were never as yet crowned with Assemblian glory , they think it not worthy their grandure or Authority , to talke or take notice of the little finger , ( I meane , of calling to an account and admonishing , before Excommunication , as the Author of the Antapologie , decently enough to the tenuity of his Interest doth ) but the first word they speake , is the weight of the loynes of this Dreadfull sentence it selfe : he that shall aske as question which by the interpretation of their jealousie , may possibly tend to the disservice of High-Presbyterie , deserves ipso facto to be posted away to the Devill , and not to have the favour of so much respit from the shame and torment , as the time of being called to an account , or admonished , doth amount unto . Reader if thou beest not amazed , Heaven and Earth , and whatsoever is capable of the impression in either , will be astonished at the insufferable height , the prodigious insolencies of these men .

But it may be the occasion of this un-manlike impotencie , and Sect. 5. extravagancie of passion , will balance it : the provocation or offence given was 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , so hideous and horrid , that the nature of man was no more able to beare it , then the sight of Medusa's head without being disnatur'd by it . There is no soare but may have a plaister broad enough to cover it . And is there any deportment of men at so deep a defiance with all principles of reason , equity , humanity , Christianity , but what by the mediation of productures may be reconciled ? Reader , if the whirlewind of these mens ecstasie hath not ravished even thee also into the gyre or circle of it , prepare thy selfe either for double astonishment , or treble indignation , against the discovery and discourse of that , in the monstrousnesse whereof these men put their trust , not onely for shelter and protection against all those that shall say unto them , black is their eye , for any miscariage of their pen ; but for applause Sect. 5. also , for solemne and sacred acclamations , as well over the light , as the heat of their zeale ; over their profound Learning in confuting , as well as over their Religious indignation , in declaming with so much ardencie and raisednesse of soule against it , as they have done . I know no parallel worthy that deportment of the men , in both , unlesse it be that of the High Priest , who upon some words spoken by our Saviour , resented by him as of no good correspondencle with his ends , though otherwise full of sobernesse and Truth , ( the Text saith ) rent his clothes , saying , He hath BLASPHEMED : what have we any more need of witnesse ? Behold , now ye have heard his Blasphemie a a Mat. 26. 65. . The Blasphemie here charged upon Christ by the High Priest , is of that kind of Blasphemy , for which the Querist is arraigned by these high-spirited sons of Levi : the supercilious and importune confidence in the High Priest , that Christ was a Blasphemer , had spoken Blasphemie ; ( ye have heard his Blasphemy : what need wee any more witnesse ? &c. ) exactly answers the rage and height of these mens plerophorie , that the Querist is a Blasphemer ( at least ) all ambiguities and doubtfulnesses discounted , in his second Querie . Thirdly and lastly , the exemplary Devotion and high-borne zeale of this High Priest in rending his cloathes , because of the great dishonour which the Lord Christ had done unto God , by his Blasphemie , portraictureth to the life the stupendious elevation of these men in all ardencie of pious affections , to render the Querist , the supposed Blasphemer , a man of all ignominy and reproch , the hatred and abhorring of men ; a man worthy of no better quarter in the world , then to be delivered up unto Satan , that he may learne not to blaspheme ; i. not to querie any further the spirit or proceedings of High-Presbytery , which ( it seemes ) is a duty much taught and urged in Satans Schoole . These men may well style themselves the sonnes of Levi ; for they give a sufficient account that they are 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 b b Acts 4. 6. , of the kindred of the High Priest : — Sic oculos , sic ille manus , sic ora ferebat .

Onely herein the patterne seemes to be more passible , then the portraicture . That which Christ spake , though it was as farre from Blasphemie , as any thing asserted , or affirmed , lightly could be , yet it was an assertion , or affirmation , as Blasphemeis frequently Sect. 6. are : but the Querie arrested for blasphemy by the angrie sonnes of High-Presbytery , is a pure Querie or Question ; nothing is affirmed , nothing denyed in it . And though I will not deny , but that possibly such questions may be invented , and with studie thought upon , which may ( in some sense of the word ) be blasphemous ; yet doe I not remember that ever I heard , or read of any such ; nor can I readily conceive how any such can be framed . But as the Philosophers maxime is : Quicquid recipitur , recipit●● ad modum recipientis ; i. whatsoever is received , is not necessarily received , either according to the disposition or intention of the Agent or giver , or according to the nature or proper tendencie of the thing it selfe received ; but alwayes according to the nature and disposition of the Receiver . If the High Priest wee spake of , had not waited for the halting of the Lord Christ , yea had not his soule longed for somewhat against him , wherewith ●oth to comfort his Conscience within him under those faint and feeble thoughts it had of his being a dissembler and wicked person , and to render him obnoxious also , and hatefull unto the people ; it is no wayes credible that ever he would have found blasphemie in the words now triumphed over , as unquestionably guilty of that demerit , there being another interpretation and constructure of them farre more obvious and neerer hand , then that which found Blasphemy in them . Nor doe I , nor can I , impute that construction of the Querie , which makes blasphemie of it , either to the persons , or to the learning , or to the Judgement , or to the grace of the Anti-querists ; but unto the enemies of all these , viz. their deep hatred against the person of the Querist , the impatiencie and impotencie of their desires to represent him to the world as a stigmaticall infamous and irreligious man , their sworne service and devotion to the cause of High-Presbytery , with a non obstante &c. Had not these evill spirits extremely wrong'd the men , and strip'd them starke naked of the soft cloathing of their ingenuity ; the Querie had been as innocent , and as farre from Blasphemy , as the Antapology , yea as the Vindication it selfe .

It was no impertinent or truth-lesse observation in him , who so Sect. 6. farre minded the proceedings of the Anti-christian and Papall Clergie in the dayes of their Interests amongst us , and likewise of the Pontificall and Episcopall Clergie , In theirs , as to be able to Sect. 6 ▪ see , and say ; that as well the one as the other did still so state and represent unto the people all such practises and actions , whether of their owne or other mens , wherein their secular pompe and Interests were concern'd , as to make God and Christ a party with them ; to intitle them to part and fellowship with themselves , as well in whatsoever they did , as in whatsoever they suffer . The device was to perswade the world , partly that whatsoever they did , in order , either to the support , or inlargement of their owne Greatnesse , they did it out of Conscience , and as persons trusted by God with the affaires of his glory ; partly , that whosoever cast honour upon them , or yeilded subjection unto them , did it not so much unto them , as unto God himselfe ; and againe , that whosoever opposed , or neglected them , opposed and neglected God himself much more . How neere all things are now carried according to this patterne in the mount , I shall not declare ; but leave unto men , who have eyes to see , to consider of a a The Presbyters of the Assembly , and others , are so farre from the domineering humour of Diotrcphes , that they could gladly and heartily have quitted all intermedling in Church-Government , if Jesus Christ had not by office ingaged them thereunto ; Jus Divinum Regim . Ecclesiast . lately published in the Name of sundry Ministers of the City of London , pag. 11. of the Preface ▪ . Onely this I shall take leave to observe , and say ; that these Antiquerie-masters , are their crafts-masters in this Pontificall artifice ; for ( oh ! ) how are they troubled ! how are they pained , and afflicted in soule , about the Queries ; not ( good men ! ) that themselves , or their Interests in the cause of Presbytery are any wayes disturb'd , struck at , or in danger to suffer by them ; wee heare ne 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 quidem , not the least mutter or whisper of this sorrow , or complaint throughout the whole discourse ; but the great anguish and vexation , the amazement b b page 5. of their devout soules is , that the honour of God , and of our Lord Jesus Christ , and the Authority of the Spirit c c page 6. , are blaspheme● in them ; that in stead of bringing the true Doctrine of the Father and the Sonne , the Queries have brought all the Doctrines of God into so absolute an uncertainty . O thou that searchest the reines and the hearts , wilt tho●e not judge the hypocrisie of these men ( if yet they be hypocrites ) and give to every one of them according to their worke d d Revel. 2. 23. ? For what ? are the men so super-superiatively zealous , for the honour of God and of our Lord Jesus Christ , and for the Authority of the Spirit , and yet all their Faith , all their knowledge , all the Doctrines they have received concerning God , brought into an absolu●● uncertainty by one poore Querie , or Question ? If a question hath so dangerously shaken the Religion of these men , surely even a weake Argument would turne it upside downe . O Church of England , Sect. 7. whatsoever thou art , tremble to build thy Faith upon the foundation of these thy Teachers : for they confesse ( if they mean as they say ) that in all these Doctrines concerning God and Christ , they are brought into an absolute uncertainty ; and that by the force of one Question onely . It seemes that their beliefe of all they know , of all they teach concerning God and Christ , is suspended upon the hope they have of the goodnesse of the cause of High Presbytery : so that when the goodnesse of this cause is any wayes made doubtfull or questionable unto them , a pang of a proportionable uncertainty in those other things also seizeth on them . They say that they perceive that ( which no man perceives besides themselves ) viz. that the Querist is in the gall of bitternesse , and bond of iniquity ; but the Querist perceives that which is of a farre cleerer vision ; viz. that ●f all the Doctrines of God and Christ be with them brought into an absolute uncertainty , they are , if not in , yet very neere to , that gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquity whereof they speake .

But what strange accident befell the learning of these men , that Sect. 7. intending to goe to Dothan , they should take the way to Samaria ? that intending , or ( at least ) pretending , to Answer Questions , they should gird their Logick to them , and make Syllogismes , and fall upon answering these ? Is Soul also among the Prophets ? Are the members of the Assembly come to their new lights too ? For to this day ( doubtlesse ) it was never knowne or heard , that men should frame Arguments and Syllogismes of their owne , and call their Answers unto these , Answers to the Questions of another . When they taught the late Catechisme of their present Church , and asked the child , What is your Name ? and , who gave you this Name ? did they teach the child to answer , first by framing Syllogismes out of , or upon the Questions ; and then , by answering these Syllogismes in stead of the Questions ? If they had meant fairely , and nothing but what was upright in the sight of God and men , in addressing themselves to Answer the Queries , these being fairely and directly proposed , why did they fetch about by the way of the fullers field , by which Rabshekah came against Jerusalem a a Esa. 36. 2. ; I meane by the way of Syllogismes and Arguments , by which the truth is wont to be opposed by her adversaries , not the Questions of the friends of Truth answered ? why did they not answer to the particulars demanded , immediately and directly , Sect. 7. either by affirmation , negation , or distinction ; which is the way and method by which Christ and his Apostles answered all the Questions proposed to them , which they thought meet to answer ? Or howsoever , they never made Syllogismes , calling their Answers to these , Answers to the Questions proposed unto them by others . Certainly these men would not have travelled out of the Kings high-way , but to lie in waite to rob and steale from those , who travell honestly and peaceably in it : There was ( out of all doubt ) some Clergie-Classique fetch , or reach in the projecture : the men are better husbands of their Syllogismes and Logicke , then to pursue or hunt after Truth or spirituall things with them : these they still take , and come by with as much ease and expedition , as Jacob came by his Venison , which he fetchd out of the stock . b b Gen. 27. 9. 14. Therefore when they take their Bo 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 and their quiver , when they come to Syllogismes , and painefull reasonings and debates , it is a great signe they have some secular game or other in chase , which for the most part is not so tame , nor so easily brought to hand , as the other . But is it lawfull for me upon this occasion , to doe as these men frequently doe in their preaching , I meane conjecture ? Reader , with thy leave , I shall take the boldnesse to present thee with my notion , upon the case . These contraquerists prudently considering , that in the Queries , as they came from the Author , there was nothing at all either affirmed or denyed , so that whatsoever the tenour or purport of them was , they could not with any tolerable colour or pretext , fasten any opinion , either 〈…〉〈…〉 negative , or affirmative , upon him that framed them , wherewith to blast either the reputation of his person , or his Queries ; therefore to blind vulgar eyes , and to set a face upon a backsidebusinesse , they judg'd it of best comport with the Classique cause presumptuously to conclude , that whatsoever the Querist questions in the negative , he holds and asserts in the affirmative ; as on the contrary , that whatsoever he querieth in the affirmative , he holds in the negative ; and so to take of these affirmatives and negatives , and digest them into Syllogismes , as they please ; which Syllogismes ( forsooth ) the simple Presbyterian , for his better edification in the delusions of his Teachers , must compell his fan●●● to believe , to be mine ; and the Answers given to them , to be theirs , and these insoluble ( at least ) and more sacred then to be Sect. 8. 9. touch'd with the least finger of an Examination .

But , ô● all you , that are the Sonnes and daughters of God , Sect. 8. whether in the way of Presbytery , or in a better , stand still , and behold your Heavenly Father at this day in the same posture of working wonders , wherein he stood in the yesterday of old . Therefore behold ( saith he ) I will proceed to doe a marvellous worke amongst this people , even a marvellous worke and a wonder : for the wisdome of their wise men shall perish , and the understanding of their prudent me● shall be hid a a Esay . 29. 14. . These politick and prudent sonnes of High Presbytery , thought they had spread a table for themselves of their Syllogismes ; but that God who taketh the wise in their owne craftinesse b b 1 Cor. 3 19. , hath turned this table into a snare unto them ; and hid their understanding out of the way when they lift up their hand to the Syllogismes . For in the framing of these , their answers considered , they are like such Conjurers , who being novices in their profession , sometimes raise those spirits , which , their skill failing them , they know not how to lay , or conjure downe . Though I owne not any one of the Syllogismes , as intimated or asserted , either Majors , Minors , or Conclusions , by me in the Queries ; yet to let the Kingdome and whole world see , upon how broken a reed they shall leane , if they trust to the Learning or Judgement of these men in the great things of their peace , I shall be willing to undertake for the Syllogismes ( at least for the most of them ) against their Answers . For doubtlesse the Arguments doe by their Answers , as Aarons rod did by the rods of the Egyptian Sorcerers c c Exod. 7. 12. ; they swallow and eat them up .

In my Vindication of the Gentlemens Syllogismes against their Sect. 9. Answers ; to save as much as may be without detriment to the cause , the labour of transcribing , and so to contract the whole discourse into as narrow a compasse , as the Subject of it will beare ; I shall not repeate the Syllogismes themselves , but onely lay open the weaknesse and insufficiencie of the respective Answers ; and this by a manifest disabling and overturning the Principles , reasons , and grounds , on which they are built . I could wish the Reader , who shall have the opportunity , and please to peruse these papers , had the Vindication it selfe , or those Anti-papers by him , to which these , by way of opposition , relate : it is like he might apprehend the particularity and appositenesse of what is here insisted Sect. 10. upon for the dissolution of those Answers , more fully , and with some ●dvantage to his satisfaction ; yet by what he shall he●e finde , he may be able , even without that ayde , competently to conceive and judge , what is the strength , and what is the weaknesse , of the said Answers .

First then , their Answer to their first Argument or Syllogisme , Sect. 10. fram'd by occasion of my first Querie , is built upon this distinction : The making of snares of any of the Doctrines of Christ for the destruction of the lives of men , may be taken two wayes ; first , for a malitious intention , and formall desire to take away mens lives : Secondly , for no more but the appointing of the punishment of death for such as shall WICKEDLY oppose any of the Doctrines of Christ . In this latter sense , they conclude it lawfull , yea and necessary , to make snares of the Doctrines of Christ , for the destruction of the lives of men , and denie it in the former . But

First , the Ordinance doth not say , who shall WICKEDLY preach , teach , publish , any opinion contrary , &c. but that , all such who shall WILLINGLY preach , teach , &c. shall , without abjuring , suffer the paines of death . Therefore the said Distinction is impertinent , and reacheth not the cause in hand . For who with halfe an eye , is not able to see a vast difference , between preaching , or publishing a point , WILLINGLY , and WICKEDLY ? when Presbyterian Ministers preach false Doctrine , as that tithes , or Presbyteriall Government are Jure Divino , that it is unlawfull either to sell or buy Bishops Lands , that the Parliament is bound to doe as the Assembly would have them , that legall preparations are simply and absolutely necessary before Conversion , that men are bound to believe that which they have no reason to believe , that Repentance goeth before Faith , that Christ suffered the torments of Hell , with twenty and ten vaine speculations , and visions of their owne hearts besides , wherewith they corrupt and poyson the Judgements of their simple and credulous Auditories , I presume they doe all this WILLINGLY ; but whether they doe it WICKEDLY , or no , let themselves judge and say . But

Secondly , suppose the Ordinance had said , WICKEDLY , as the Syllogisme●s speake ; I demand of them what they meane by the word , WICKEDLY , and who shall judge and determine of this modification or aggravation of the offence ? Suppose a man Sect. 10. should preach very zealously , and with fervency of Spirit against any of those Tenets which these men call the Doctrines of Christ , as against the Jus Divinum , or lawfulnesse of tithes , or of Presbytery , or the like ; will they call this a preaching WICKEDLY ? If so , then themselves preach WICKEDLY , as oft as zealously . If by WICKEDLY , they meane , obstinately , or with obstinacie ( an expression which the paper called , The Ordinance , useth ) this is to give light by darknesse : and I demand , as before , what they meane , by obstinately ? For neither doth the Ordinance , nor the Asserters of it , ( who yet undertake too to be the Interpreters of it , when , and as they please a a page 1 , 2. ) declare , or determine any thing at all herein . If by preaching , or publishing a Doctrine obstinately , they meane , a preaching it after admonition , or after meanes us'd , yea or after sufficient meanes us'd ( I meane , sufficient , in the Judgement of those that use them ; yea or of those who are interressed in the same judgement with those that use them ) then themselves , as oft as they preach the point of Infant-Baptisme , preach obstinately , and consequently , WICKEDLY ? For they have been admonished again and again by the Anti-poedo-baptists , both by writing and otherwise ; who also have used meanes upon meanes , and those by themselves and all of their party , judged to be abundantly sufficient to convince them , of the errour of this Doctrine ( for so they judge it to be . ) So againe , ( according to this interpretation of the word ) when they preach against the lawfulnesse of selling and buying the Bishops Lands , they preach obstinately , and so WICKEDLY , for by the late Ordinance of Parliament published in that behalfe , they are admonished , yea , and in the Judgement of the Parliament , sufficiently informed , of the lawfulnesse of both . Instance might be given in twenty points more of like consideration . If they have any other sense or meaning in the word , Obstinately , which is more crypticall , or mysterious , it is but reasonable and equall , that it be declared and made knowne ; before the lifes or liberties of the Saints , or other men be endangered by it . It is most un-christian and repugnant to the law and light of nature it selfe , that any such Lawes or Statutes should be made , wherein either the lifes or Liberties of men are touch'd ; and yet the sense and meaning of them , by the ambiguity of the words , wherein they are conceived , be of doubtfull interpretation unto those , who are so Sect. 10. deeply concern'd in them . Lawes and Statutes , wherein the precious lives and Liberties of men are concern'd , ought not to be like Aristotles acroamatiques ; concerning which he said , when he had published them , edidi , & non edidi . i. I have published them , and I have not published them ; meaning , that as he had set them forth , few were able to understand them : but to be plaine and transparent in their sense and meaning ; that even persons of meanest capacity may without an Interpreter , see to the bottome of them . Or Thirdly , ( and lastly , ) if by WICKEDLY , in their distinction , they meane , maliciously , ( which the word seemes most properly to import ) I desire to know of them , whom they will constitute or make Judges of this inward and soule-misdemeanour ; or what 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , what Symptomes , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or signes they will Authorize , as infallibly demonstrative of this malignitie ? For it is no wayes Christian or equall , that the Saints ( or indeed any other sort of men ) should be deprived of their lives , or precious Liberties , upon what Interpretation of the Law , either the Jurie , or the Judge shall please to make . But the case and condition of the Saints would be most deplorable upon such terms as these ; in as much as there are very few either Juries , or Judges , but being strangers to the worke of Grace , inwardly hate this generation of men ; according to that ( with many the like ) saying of the Scriptures : Marvell not my Brethren , if the world hate you a a 1 Joh. 3. 13. : whereunto that of our Saviour himselfe also agreeth ; Because ye are not of the world , but I have chosen you of the world , therefore the world hateth you b b Joh. 15. 19. . Now it being the genius or property of this affection of hatred , to desire and seek the destruction of that which is hated , ( Quem quisque odit , periisse expetit ) it were most sad with the Saints , if they that hate them , should have the Liberty of interpreting not onely their actions and practises , as they please ; but also of the Lawes themselves too , by which these are to be judged .

Thus then it fully appeares , that the Distinction , upon which the Syllogizers build their Answer to their first Syllogisme , is , by reason of the ambiguity and doubtfulnesse in one of the most signall and important terms in it , altogether insufficient and null ; and in exactnesse of truth , no distinction at all ; no more , then a dish , with an hole in the bottome of it , is a dish , or a man without a soule , a man . Miserable is the condition of those , whose Faith Sect. 11. 12. must be pinn'd upon such sleeves as these .

There are severall other importune , reasonlesse , and false assertions Sect. 11. and suppositions made to support the said Answer and Distinction . As

1. That he that shall but insinuate a reproach upon the Ordinance in such a phrase as this , of making a snare for the destruction of the lives of men , doth with the same hand or tongue cast a reproach upon ALL the punitive Justice that ever was , or will be in the world a a page 3. . Certainly these Gentlemens Logick stood at their left hand in stead of their right , when they advanc'd such a consequence , or saying , as this ? Doth he that insinuates it as a thing unlawfull , to put an Heathen to death for asserting the principles of his false Religion , cast a reproch upon the Justice , which shall punish him with death for murther , rebellion , or insurrection ? Or doth he that insinuates it as a thing unworthy a Christian Magistrate or Judge , to put a man to death for professing , or affirming that for truth , which he verily beleeveth to be so , though indeed it be false ; cast a reproch upon such Magistrates or their punitive Justice , who shall punish murther , perjury , incest , or any the like sinnes committed against the light of nature , and the knowledge of the perpetrator , with punishments suitable to the respective natures and demerits of them ? It seemes that to sinne out of ignorance , and with knowledge ; with Conscence and against Conscience , are of one and the ●ame consideration and demerit , with these men . Oh England , if thou sufferest thy selfe to be led by such Guides as these , take heed of falling into the ditch , out of which there is no rising againe .

Secondly , the said Answer leanes upon the broken reed of this Sect. 12. supposition ; that the Spirit of Christ now , should be contrary to Gods Spirit in the Old Testament , if it should not justifie and allow , yea and require the punishment of death under the Gospel , for the violation of such Doctrines and Lawes , as well of the first , as second Table , for the violation whereof this punishment was expressely appointed by the Authority of God then . If the pens of these men were not intoxicated with the new Wine or Must of Presbyterie , they would never utter such Atheologicall stuffe as this . Was the Spirit of Christ in the New Testament , contrary to Gods Spirit in the Old , because he discharg'd a woman taken in adultery , onely with this admonition , Goe , and sinne no more ; permitting none but such to stone her , who were , Sect. 13. without sinne a a Joh. 8. 3. 7. 11. ; whereas the Spirit of God in the Old Testament , appointed that both the adulterer and the adulteresse should SVRELY be put to death b b Levit. 20. 10. Deut. 22. 22. ? Or because Christ prohibited calling downe fire from Heaven to consume those who refused to receive him c c Luk. 9. 55. was his Spirit contrary to the Spirit of God in the Prophet ELIIAH , by which he called for fire from Heaven to doe that sad execution , and that upon person● of an inferiour delinquencie in respect of them ( at least as the tenour of the Histories compared together seems to import ? ) Or what reason can these irrefragable Doctors give , why the Spirit of God in the Old Testament , which is but one and the same Spirit with the Spirit of Christ in the New , should not be at as much liberty to alter the punishments or penalties , as the Ordinances of worship appointed in the Old Testament , under the New ? Are the former so much more sacred then the latter , that though these be changed , yet those must of necessity abide for ever ? Is there nothing in that great dispensation of God , by which he shooke the Earth also , as well as the Heavens d d Heb. 12. 26. , I meane the sending of his onely begotten Sonne Jesus Christ in the flesh into the world ? was there no occasion hereby ministred unto God , to vary from his ancient oeconomie of governing his Church and people , as much as an alteration or change of some externall penalties , amount unto ? But wee shall have occasion once and againe to discourse Old Testament matters with our new Masters , before they and I part : therefore for the present we leave them under the shame of this supposition also .

Thirdly , the said Answer halts shamefully upon this leg also ; Sect. 13. it affirmeth , that that speech of Christ Luk. 9. The Sonne of man i● not come to destroy mens lives , but to save them , hath a peculiar reference to his being on Earth in the forme of a servant , which implyeth , that when he laid aside the forme of a servant , and ascended up into Heaven , he ascended , not to save mens lives , but to destroy them ; or at least , that now , being in Heaven , he is more inclinable to destroy the lives of men , then he was whilst he remained in the forme of a servant : Both which are emphatically false ; the Lord Christ , even after his receiving up into glory , being altogether as tender of the preclous lives of men , as before ; yea and giving out his Divine vertue and power every whit as bountifully , as well for the comfort and preservation of mens lives whilst they Sect. 14. stood by them , as for the restoring or recalling of them , when they were departed a a Act. 9. 40. Act. 20. 9 , 10. . Yea the Scripture teacheth us to looke upon the blessed condition of Christ glorified , as a more hopefull ground of obtaining grace and favour from him in every kind , then his being in the forme of a Servant was . For if when wee were enemies ( saith the Apostle ) we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son ; much more being reconciled , we shall be saved BY HIS LIFE b b Rom. 5. 10. .

Fourthly , the said Answer blusheth also with the red of this inference , or supposall : viz. that because that negative expression of Christ mentioned , that he came not to destroy mens lives , is not necessarily an absolute negation , but rather a preferring of one thing before another ; therefore it is necessarily and absolutely a preferring of one thing before another ; and the meaning of it necessarily and absolutely this , that Christ came not onely , or so much , to destroy mens lives , but to save them . Doth the possibility , or non-necessity of the being of a thing either so or so , necessarily and absolutely imply the being of it otherwise ? This ( it seemes ) is one of the Logick pillars , upon which Presbytery hath built her house .

Fiftly ( and lastly ) the Answer wee speake of , vanisheth away , and dieth in the hand of this most senselesse and importune reasoning . Sect. 14. If Peter by his word struck Ananias and Sapphira dead for their sacrilegious dissimulation ; and Christ himselfe threaten destruction to Jerusalem for rejecting him their Messiah , then is the destroying of mens lives by the Civill Magistrate for contradicting the most fundamentall Doctrines of Christ , agreeable to the Spirit of Christ . Doth the Antecedent and consequent in this hypotheticall proposition agree any whit better then harp and harrow ? Is the contradicting of what a man knowes no sufficient ground or reason , why he should judge , or thinke it to be a Truth , nor with his best endeavours is able so to judge of it ( which according to the common Tenet of these men themselves , is the case of all unregenerate men , in respect of the fundamentall Doctrines of Christ ) a sinne of the like nature , or equally punishable , with the sinne of Sacrilegious dissimulation ; which the sinner cannot but know to be an abomination ? See before , Sect. 11. Or is the threatning of destruction by Christ himselfe to Jerusalem upon an old score of all manner of provocations and abominations , which had run on for many generations together ; which threatning notwithstanding was not Sect. 14. put in execution till almost fourty yeares after it was denounced ; is such a threatning ( I say ) as this by Christ himselfe , of a like consideration with the actuall and present inflicting of the punishment of death upon a man by a Civill Magistrate , onely for contradicting in words such or such Tenets in Christian Religion , suppose the most fundamentall , of the Truth , or likelihood whereof the miserable wretch hath no assurance , nor ( perhaps ) knoweth how to come by any ? Whatsoever an Apostle may doe by the immediate and infallible direction of the Holy Ghost ; nay , whatsoever Christ himselfe may doe by vertue of his Authority and Interest , having all power of Judicature put into his hand by God , may a Magistrate doe by vertue of that limited Authority and Interest which he hath , and by the suggestion or direction of his owne spirit onely , or of those that are subject unto errour and misprisions , as well as his ? Is it reasonable to say that a child may undertake as much as a man ? or a Subject , as much as his Prince ? Take a parallel of these mens reasoning : if the Vine may bring forth grapes , why not the thorne ? if the fig-tree figs , why not the thistle ? Take another : If Presbytery be Jure Divino , why not Episcopacie ? why not Independencie ? If something be something , why not nothing ? The Faith of these men had need be strong ; for their reasonings ( I am certaine ) are extremely weake . But their salve for this soare is ; to injoyne their Proselytes upon paine of death to cast their Reason out of their Religion ; and then quid libet will serve to prove quodlibet . But before I discharge them at this point , I must know of them , or at least demand of them , by what light , new , or old , did they discerne this for a truth , that Peter by his word struck Ananias and Sapphira dead for their Sacrilegious dissimulation ? Doe these men justifie the Argument of the Romish Disputants , from Ecce duo gladii , Behold , here are two Swords , to prove that Peter was invested , as well with secular , as a Luk. 22. 38. Ecclesiastick power ? Or doe they conceive , that smiting with death is an Ecclesiastick , or Church Censure ? Or suppose it be , had Peter power to inflict it by his word ? Did God impart his omnipotencie unto him ? Concerning Ananias it is indeed related how Peter according to the duty of his place , admonished him of his sin ; and that Ananias upon hearing the Admonition or Reproofe , gave up the Ghost a a Act. 5. 5. ( or , died ) but it is no where said , nor is it any wayes Sect. 14. probable , that Peter intended any such severe execution in his admonition ; and consequently it cannot be said , that he struck him dead with his word ; except onely in such a sense , as a man may be said to kill his Brother , who doth it at unawares : and if a Magistrate shall thus slay with death an Heretick , or opposer of the Doctrines of Christ , viz. at unawares , I shall doe my utmost to excuse him ; and the rather , if he shall doe it , onely by admonishing , or reproving him for his errours . Concerning the death of Sapphira , it is said indeed that Peter foretold it , before it was inflicted ; behold ( saith he , unto her ) the feet of those which have buried thy husband , are at the dore , and shall carrie thee out . But from these words , it cannot be concluded that Peter struck Sapphira dead with his word , except onely in such a sense , as the faithfull Ministers of this Land , may be said to have struck it with all those heavy Judgements or plagues that have fallen upon it , in as much as they foretold and preadmonished the Nation of them before they came . The greatest difference is , that Peter had his prediction of Sapphira's death , by a more immediate revelation from God ; the Ministers have their predictions of the Judgements executed upon this Nation , by the mediation of the Scriptures , which hold forth grounds for such predictions . If Magistrates be able upon substantiall grounds to foreshew what Judgements will fall upon those that shall oppose the Doctrines of Christ , in case these Judgements shall fall upon them accordingly without the Magistrates interposall for their procurement , I shall freely allow them this imitation of Peteter in striking Ananias and Sapphira dead with his word . For I much doubt , whether it had been lawfull for Peter , having prophecied of Sapphira's death , to have slaine her with a Sword for the vindication of his Prophecie . But surely these men were not aware of their friends , ( if of themselves ) when they pleaded the example of Peter smiting Ananias and Sapphira with death for dissimulation , to strengthen the hand of the Civill Magistrate to punish offenders accordingly . For I verily believe , were it his duty , and he conscientious in the performance of it , to smite hypocrisie and dissimulation with the Sword , that great and numerous party , which the Anti-Querists have for the present in the Land , would soone be reduced to the shaking of an olive tree , and to the gleaning of grapes after the vontage . In the meane while Sect. 1● . we cleerely see with what rotten tymber the house of the Lord ( so called ) is now built by the great Architects of it . Wee have now done with the Answer of our Syllogists , to their first Argument : and have found the Argument laughing the Answer in the face to scorne .

Proceed we in the next place to the examination of their Answer Sect. 15. given to their second Syllogisme , which by the strength of their imagination and Logick together , they hale and pull out of my second Querie ( that unhappy Querie of Classique indignation ) at which so many of this way have made shipwrack of their patience and man-like ingenuity ; discovering themselves , not to be 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , a a Jam. 5. 21. subject to like passions with other men , which was Eliiah's infirmity ; but to be 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , i. subject to passions appropriate to themselves , of a worse and more deplorable nature then other mens . But let us heare how they answer this Argument of their owne : this they attempt to doe , first , by Reason ; secondly , by Passion .

For the first : this Answer ( or rather , this part of their Answer ) stands upon two legs , ( with much adoe ) the first is this : That they who after admonition , maintaine damnable Heresies , are no longer to be esteemed Brethren , but enemies to Christ , &c. and therefore are to be accordingly dealth with b b page 4. . This ground is true : but as true it is , that it is nothing to the purpose . For first , there is no mention of any such thing , as damnable heresies , in the Argument which they propose to answer ; but onely of such opinions , which for ought the inflicters of death know , may be the sacred Truths of Christ . If they will grant , that such opinions , may be damnable Heresies which for ought the men they speak of know , may be sacred Truths of Christ ; I grant both the Truth and pertinencie of the supposition or ground : but if they grant it , it undoeth them in all they further have to say , either in way of Reason , or of passion , in this Answer ( as will appeare presently . ) And

Secondly , whereas they say , that such who after admonition , shall maintaine damnable heresies , &c. are to be dealt with all accordingly , ( i. either as God hath commanded , or as otherwise is reasonable , in such cases ) I know no man 〈…〉 in this gainsayeth them . But what is this to the inflicting of the heavy censure of death upon men ▪ these are the termes of the Syllogisme , which they pretend to answer . Sect. 16. Are these equipollent expressions in their Logick ; to deale with an offender according to his offence ; and , to inflict the heavie censure of death upon him ? Surely these men are Stoicks , and hold the Paradox , Omnia peccata esse aequalia , i. that all sins are equall . The question between them and their Syllogisme , is not , whether they who maintaine damnable heresies after Admonition , be to be dealt with accordingly ; no , nor yet , whether such are to be punished with death ; but whether it be agreeable to the mind of Christ , for men to inflict the censure of death upon men , for holding forth such opinions , which for ●ught they know may be the sacred Truths of Christ . But to this Question , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 quidem is to be found in all their Answer ; neither in the more lightsome part of it , which should have been reason ( had it prov'd ) , nor yet in the darke of it , which is passion without dispute .

The second leg made of reason ( such as it is ) upon which this answer Sect. 16. stands , in the rationall part of it ) is this : that the Opinions threatned with death in the Ordinance , the makers of the Ordinance doe CERTAIN●Y know to be damnable heresies . This they prove by this Reason ; because they are contrary to the MANIFEST word of God , and overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion . But

( By the way ) what if the makers of the Ordinance ( which I and many more , suppose to be men of Clergie-orders , rather then persons of any other Interest or capacity ) have that certainty of knowledge which is here with so much confidence asserted to them , though this ( I confesse ) were it granted , would be somewhat to the Syllogisme ( though not much neither ) yet is it nothing at all to the Querie , from whence the Syllogisme pretends legitimacie of descent . For certaine I am that the Querie denies it not . If it be replyed ; yea , but it intimates a deniall of i● . I demand , upon what ground is this supposition built ? or what reason is there to charge the Querie , with such an intimation ? if it be answered ; because it was fram'd upon occasion of the Ordinance , and ownes relation to it . And therefore , except some such supposition as this be vertually contain'd in it , viz. that the makers of the Ordinance doe not certainly know the opinions threatned therein with death , to be damnable heresies , the Querie is altogether eccentricall , and irrelative to the point , to which it pretends . I answer , that this is a most simple and unclerk-like allegation , and no wayes demonstrative . Sect. 17. For

First , what though the Querie was fram'd upon occasion of the Sect. 17. Ordinance , yet is it not necessary that it should speake to , or of , any of the particulars contained in the Ordinance . When a man being below , intends to goe up into a chamber , or upper roome , he doth not set his first , nor second , nor third step into the roome it selfe , whereinto his desire is to enter , but steppeth at first upon lower staires , which are at some distance from it . Nothing is more usuall , then in examinations , and inquirings out of matters , whether by Justices of Peace , Judges , or others , at first to propose Questions or Queries to the persons that are to be examined , that are preparatory onely , and introductive to such further Questions , which strike at the businesse principally intended to be inquired after , and found out . I presume the intent of the late Catechisme of the present Church of England ( so called ) was , neither to teach the persons that were to be cathechised , what their Names were , or who gave them their Names , nor yet to informe the Catechist of either of these : but to instruct those that were to be catechised , in the fundamentall points of Christian Religion . Yet we know that the framers of this Catechisme , thought meet to begin with those questions , What is your Name : and , Who gave you this Name ; which doe not concerne immediately or directly any point of Religion , but to serve onely by way of introduction to those questions which follow , and whose tendencie was , the instruction of the persons catechised in things worthy to be knowne . So that to plead or to pretend , that , because the body of my Queries was compiled upon occasion of the Ordinance , therefore the first or second Querie must directly and particularly strike at the Ordinance , or any thing contained in it ( much more at the makers of the Ordinance , ) or else be altogether irrelative to it , is a kind of arguing , which cannot lightly proceed but from men of one of the worst constitutions that are to be found amongst Christians , namely , such , who are men onely in malice , and children in understanding . Therefore all that passionate and un-christian bluster , of wickednesse , blasphemy , impudence , are you an Atheist , or a Devill , with all the rest of the black Regiment of unhallowed expressions , which spread themselves upon the fift and sixt pages of the Vindication , is occasioned onely by that kind of ignorance in the Antiquerists , Sect. 18. which the Philosopher calls ignorantia Juris , the Ignorance of the Law , and excludes from all excuse . The men certainly were sick of their disease , who sought amongst all the doings and sayings of Christ , wherefore to stone him ; and at last , for want of a better or a better coloured for their purpose pitch'd upon that , which was as innocent as any of the rest , viz. his making himselfe the Sonne of God a a Ioh. 8. . The Counter-Querists , being desirous above measure , to find some , one , or more , amongst my Queries , that would take compassion on them , and ease the burthen of their great griefe by furnishing them with an occasion to disgrace both me , and their fellowes ; have cast their eye , and se● their heart upon the second , as best of countenance for their designe ; which yet in truth and evidence of interpretation , as little favoureth them in the way of this unrighteousnesse , as any other .

Secondly , let the Querie in hand be sifted to the bran , there Sect. 18. will not so much as the smallest dust be beaten out of it , to asperse the MAKERS of the Ordinance , whoever they be , with any such insinuation , as that which the Syllogisme-makers charge upon it ; viz. that the opinions therein threatned with death , may , for ought the said MAKERS know , be the sacred Truths of God . The Querie speakes onely of those , who shall inflict the heavie censure of death upon men for holding forth such , or such Doctrines and opinions ; no● at all of the Ordinance-makers . Now a Jurie , who shall passe a verdict against a man , which in ordinary course of Law , toucheth his life ; and so a Judge that shall give a sentence of death against him ; yea and the executioner of this sentence may every whit a● properly be said to inflict the censure of death upon him , as they that make the Ordinance , or Law , by occasion whereof he suffereth . So then , though it should be granted , that the Querie intimateth or supposeth this , that the inflicters of death upon men for holding forth such opinions , which by the Ordinance are threatned with death , may very possibly not certainly know , but that they are the Truth● of God ; yet it no wayes followes from hence , that this intimation i● levelled against those who made the Ordinance , ( much lesse against the Parliament , who made it not : ) which yet the Anti-querie-men most in●ulfly and ignobly , but so much the more like unto themselves , charge the Querie with ) because there are diverse others , Sect. 19. to whom , according to the tenour of the Querie , it may relate , yea and to whom men of ingenuity and understanding , might easily have conceived , that , according to the intention of the Querist , it did belong , rather then to the makers of the Ordinance . For whatsoever may either reasonably , or charitably be thought of these ; confident I am , that upon due consideration it will be found , that many men who are put upon Juries , yea and some Judges too , & executioners especially , know nothing certainly by those Doctrins in the Ordinance threatned with death , but that they are , or may be the sacred Truths of God . And thus we see how grievously an innocent Querie hath been handled , rack'd , and tortured by the Sonnes of violence , to force an accusation from it against the Authors . Well ●● the comfort is , that what men make crooked in their day , God will make streight againe in his .

And now , having abundantly justified the Querie against the Sect. 19. Syllogisme , let us according to our understanding , see whether , or how farre the Syllogisme it selfe notwithstanding , is justifiable against the Answer given in by the Cata-Querists to it . We have vindicated it in part already ; and have cleerely shewed , that the first thing they answer to it , is either a meere impertinencie , or else a Sword to slay their owne opinion with . See Sect 15. Wee exhibited the second particular of their Answer , at the beginning of Sect. 16. which amounted to this ; that the makers of the Ordinance must needs certainly know that the opinions sentenced with death in the Ordinance , are damnable Heresies , because they are contrary to the manifest word of God , overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion . To this I answer ( earnestly desiring the Reader well to observe , and to carrie in mind the tenour and substance of the allegation . )

First , if all the opinions sentenced with death in the Ordinance are damnable Heresies ; contrary to the manifest word of God , overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion , &c. How came it to passe that the Honourable House of Commons ( as we have been once and againe informed by your weekly Intelligence concerning their proceedings ) after a long and serious debate , judged the contrary ; not suffering the denying of God to be one in three Persons to passe as a damnable Heresie , or contrary to the manifest word of God , &c. which yet is one of the opinions threatned with death in Sect. 20. the Ordinance ? If they had judged this a damnable heresie , contrary to the manifest word of God , overthrowing , &c. What reason can be given , why they should be more favourable to it , refusing to charge it with death , then unto many others , upon which the thought meet to lay this heavie sentence conceiving them to be opinions or Doctrines of that deep demerit , and dangerous import ? Will these Anti-Querists charge this Honourable House with injustice or partiality between Doctrine and Doctrine , Opinion and Opinion ? Howsoever ,

Secondly , It is evident from the tendernesse of this Honourable Sect. 20. House in not suffering the said Opinion to passe for a damnable heresie , &c. that if the makers of the Ordinance did certainly know , that all the Opinions sentenced therein with death , were damnable heresies , contrary to the manifest word of God , overthrowing , &c. that they knew more then all the said Honourable House besides . Which considered , I summon all Readers and persons under Heaven to consider and give sentence , whether these sonnes of shame ●nd folly , had not much more reason ( if they durst ) to have vented that outrage of senselesse choler and most unchristian passion against this Honourable Hoase it selfe , then against me , which they poure out , pag. 5. of their Vindication ( or Revenge rather ) in these words . First to the Querist : Who are you sir , that have dared to conceive in your heart such a wickednesse and blasphemy as this Querie containes in the bowells of it ? Looke againe upon the Opinions which the Ordinance threatneth with death : or if you will not , I summon all Readers in the Name of God and Christ to looke upon them , and to stand amazed at your impudence , that have been so audacious , as to affirme or insinuate ( which yet I have not done in the least , as hath been sufficiently proved , though these sonnes of Levi be so impudent and audacious as to calumniate me with it ) that all those things , OR EVEN ANY OF THEM , may ( for all that the Parliament knowes , or any that will not make himselfe infallible ) be the sacred Truths of God . And presently after : What are you that speake thus ? an Atheist ? or a Devill ? Behold , oh England , a mapp of thy misery ! Thy teachers imagine mischiefe in their heart : they sharpen their tongues like a Serpent : adders poyson is under their lips . a a Psal. 140. 3. Are such lips meet to preserve knowledge ? But why doe they charge me , and not the Parliament rather , with wickednesse , Blasphemie , Impudence ; audaciousnesse ? Sect. 21. Why doe they not aske the respective Members thereof ; What are you that speake thus ; are you Atheists ? or are you Devills ? Yea why doe they not charge the Assembly , as they regard the honour of God , and of our Lord Jesus Christ , &c. to deliver them up unto Satan , that they may learne not to blaspheme ? They are the persons against whom the pretended ground of all these brutish vociferations lieth , not I. They are they , who ( if the fore-mentioned intelligence be authenticke and true ) have affirmed , or at least throughly insinuated , that all the Doctrines and opinions threatned in the Ordinance with death , are not CERTAINLY knowne to them , either to be damnable heresies , or contrary to the manifest word of God , or overthrowing the foundations of Christian Religion . They have declared their sense to the contrary , and that upon a most weighty and Christian ground . For in as much as the Scriptures , or manifest word of God doth no where affirme , that God is One in three Persons , they had the greatest Reason in the world , not to sentence the deniall thereof with death . If once this dore be opened , that the expositions or Interpretations of Scripture , or deductions from Scripture , made by men , shall be made binding upon the Judgements and Consciences of others , under civill mulcts and penalties in any kind , where , or when , or in what cases shall it be shut ? Or who shall be found meet to separate the vile from the precious in this kind ? I meane , to determine , what expositions , or deductions they are , the deniall whereof shall deserve to be punished ; and againe , what , or which of either kind they are , that may be refused without danger ?

Reader , give me leave to trie to cut the combe of these mens Sect. 21. confidence , by propounding a Question to them . I shall not aske them , what they are ? whether they be Atheists , or Devills ? they may possibly have learn'd by this how to answer these Questions . But the Querie I shall put to them is this ; How , or by what means , or upon what grounds they themselves CERTAINLY know , that this Opinion ( which is one of those , which as hath oft been said , the Ordinance threatneth with death ) viz. that God is not one in three Persons , is either a damnable heresie , or contrary to the manifest word of God , or overthrowing the foundations of Christian Religion ? Certaine I am , that the Scriptures , which wee vulgar and unlearned ones call the word of God ( it may be the Seraphicall Doctors , to Sect. 11. whom wee now addresse , have some other word of God , which we know not of ) no where affirmes , or holds forth this , that God is one in three Persons ; nor doth it any where use the terme , or word , person , in reference unto God . If it be replyed and said ; yea , but it plainely affirmeth , God to be One in Three : and it as plainely ascribeth to every of these Three , such things , which plainly evince them , to be so many Persons . I answer ,

First , that my memory serves me , as ill as the Consciences and reasons of these men served their masters in drawing up their Vindication , that is , quite faileth me , if the Scripture any where plainly affirmeth , that God is One in Three . This certainly is a phrase , or expression , which the Scripture knoweth not . It is indeed said , concerning the Father , the Word , and the Holy Ghost , that these three are one a a 1 Joh. 5. 8. . But to say , that God is one IN these , or any other , Three , is the voyce of men , not of God . Therefore these Gentlemen , cannot reasonably or with Truth say , that they CERTAINLY know the deniall of this to be a damnable Heresie , &c. by the Scriptures , at least not by the Scriptures alone , without the mediation and interveening of their owne reasons and understandings , to draw it forth by way of inference or deduction . Now then , if the knowledge which they have of any conclusion , suppose it be a Truth , depends , though but in part , upon the actings & workings of their own reasons and understandings , which are confessedly fallible , and very obnoxious to mistakes , especially in the things of God ; unpossible it is that this knowledge should be CERTAINE , yea though the grounds or principles , from whence they derive it , be never so CERTAINE or infallible . It is a knowne maxime in Logick ; that Conclusio sequitur deteriorem partem . If either of the Premises be but probable or contingent , the conclusion rais'd from them , will never be a necessary , or CERTAIN Truth . I confesse there is a great difference between deduction and deduction , inference and inference , in point of cleerenesse and satisfactorinesse to the Judgement and Conscience of a man : one may have such a kind of certainty or evidence in it in respect of him , that he is able to lay downe his life in attestation of the Truth of it , whereas ( haply ) he is not willing to sacrifice the least haire of his head upon the service of another ; yet the greatest evidence or certainty to me in this kind is no sufficient Argument to evince an absolute or universall Sect. 21 CERTAINTY in the thing , I meane a certainty in respect of all other men , considering that ( as one saith ) the same things Eadem possunt ali●ni videri man f●stè vera , quae alteri videntur manif●ste falsa . may seeme manifestly true to one man , which seeme manifestly false unto another ; nor can any man have any such assurance of another mans judgement or understanding , as that they must needs be without errour or mistake in such things , wherein himselfe remaines doubtfull .

Secondly , how much lesse can these impatient and importune boasters of their CERTAINE knowledge , know certainly that God is One in three Persons ( the denyall whereof the Ordinance threatneth with death ) by the Scriptures alone , when as these no where assert it ? So that ( for ought I certainly know ) to vindicate the CERTAINTIE of their knowledge in this point , they must flee to the Familists , and crave quarter with them in their Sanctuary of extraordinary Revelation .

Thirdly , ( and lastly , to this ) confident I am , that if these great Confidentiaries of the certainty of their knowledge being three in number ( if report mis-counteth not ) were but dealt with upon this occasion , as those base and bloody Elders are reported in the Apocryphall story of Susanna , to have been serv'd by Daniel upon another occasion , I meane , were they presently taken and examined apart each from other , what they meane by the word , PERSON , when they say , God is one in three Persons , they would agree no better in their Answers , then those Elders did in theirs ; but one would answer , that a Person , was a Myrtle tree ; the second , a lentish tree : the third , a tyle tree ; my meaning is , that no one of them would agree with either of his fellowes , in his notion or definition of a PERSON . And then with what face , can these enemies both of nature and Grace , require of poore , weake , simple and illiterate people , that they under paine of death , believe , that God is One in three Persons , when as themselves , who conceive they ride upon the wings of all knowledge , Learning , and understanding , cannot agree among themselves what a PERSON is ; or if they doe agree , it is ten to one but it is an agreement in errour , and disagreement with the Truth . Poore English soules ! Were you ransomed with the precious bloud of Jesus Christ , to sell your selves under the hand and power of such hard and cruell Masters as these ? But

Thirdly , I would gladly know of these Classique Authors , why , Sect. 22. Sect. 22. or how this should be a reason , to demonstrate , that the makers of the Ordinance must needs certainly know , that all the Opinions threatned with death in it , are damnable heresies ; viz. because they are contrary to the manifest word of God , and overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion .

For first , if this be a demonstrative reason to the makers of the Ordinance , of the conclusion specified , why is it not so to all others ? and particularly to those , who are supposed either for the present to hold , or at least to be in a possibility of holding , the Opinions threatned with death in the Ordinance ? God forbid that I should cast the least prejudice or aspersion upon the makers of the Ordinance , whose Persons are to me altogether unknowne : I am willing to hope the best , and to judge charitably of them , as viz. that they are men truly fearing God : But yet if the strength or stresse of these mens Answer to their Syllogisme , lieth in this supposition , I shall crave leave ( I hope without offence ) to require of them a probate of it . Nor for any doubt I have of the thing ; but because I doe not love to gratifie men in loose disputes . But this I confesse is no part of my charity towards them , to judge that to be demonstrative unto them , which unto others of equall capacity and understanding , if not superior , is not so much as Topicall , or probably concluding . Porphyrie , Julian the Apostate , with many other adversaries of Christian Religion , of great abilities and Learning , knew that all , or most of the Opinions threatned with death in the Ordinance , were contrary to the manifest word of God , I meane the Scriptures , and likewise overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion ; and yet they were so farre from knowing CERTAINLY hereby , that they were damnable heresies , that they apprehended them not in the least , to be so much as errours . And in case any roote of this bitternesse shall at any time spring up amongst us , if any such person , one or more , shall arise in this City , or elsewhere in the Kingdome , teaching or publishing any of those perverse things ( a possibility at least whereof the Ordinance it selfe supposeth ) it cannot well be conc●ied , but that they must needs know them to be contrary to what these men ( I suppose ) call the manifest word of God , and likewise overthrowing the foundations of Christian Religion ; and yet if we shall suppose them to be CERTAINLY KNOWNE unto them for damnable heresies , wee Sect. 23. 24. cannot with any good accord to this supposition , suppose they will ever hold , or publish them . Or

Fourthly , if wee shall suppose that these men , who shall , or may Sect ●3 . hold or publish any of those Opinions sentenced in the Ordinance , may possibly not know them to be contrary to the manifest word of God , or overthrowing the foundations of Christian Religion : how can this contrariety , or destructive nature to Religion in these Opinions , be any sufficient proofe or demonstration , that the makers of Ordinance must needs CERTAINLY know them to be damnable heresies ? That which one man living in England , is ignorant of , there is a possibility ( at least ) that another may be ignorant of it also . Now then if there be but so much as a possibility , that the makers of the Ordinance may not know , that the said Opinions are contrary to the manifest word of God , or destructive to Christian Religion ; these ill properties in them can be no sufficient or demonstrative proofe , that they doe CERTAINLY KNOW them to be damnable heresies . For that which a man may possibly b● ignorant of , can be no suffient ground to another , upon which to conclude any CERTAINTY OF KNOWLEDGE in any point whatsoever , in such a man . If I suppose ( for example ) that Peter may be ignorant whether James be in London or no ; I cannot conclude that Peter knowes any thing , much lesse knowes any thing CERTAINLY , by meanes of James his being in London , though it be never so true that there he is : yea , and that he hath inform'd Peter of never so many things . It is not the ground , cause , or reason of any thing which necessarily furnisheth a man with the knowledge of the thing ; but the apprehension and knowledge of them , and that in their relation of causality unto the thing . So that the Vindicators are quite out , in assigning the contrariety which is in the Opinions sentenced in the Ordinance to the manifest word of God , together with their destructivenesse to the foundations of Christian Religion , as a reason or ground why the makers of the Ordinance must needs CERTAINLY know them to be damnable heresies .

Fiftly , whereas our Querie ▪ opponents talke with so much peremptorinesse Sect. 24. and importune confidence of a CERTAINE knewledge , in the Ordinance-makers ( and consequently , in themselves ) that the Opinions condemn'd in the Ordinance , are damnable heresies ; I am halfe jealous , from the aire of their confidence , that Sect. 25. they understand not what they say , nor whereof they affirme a a 1 Tim. 1. 7. , I meane that they know not , or at least consider not , what belongs to a CERTAINTY OF KNOWLEDGE in matters of Religion , and the things of God . It is a gracious and excellent degree of perswasion concerning the truth of the Gospel , and much more concerning the Truth of particular Doctrines in it , when men being called to it by God , are made able and willing thereby to lay downe their lives for them , or in confirmation of them . If themselves have attained such a perswasion or knowledge of the Truth of Gospel-Doctrines , as this , they have cause to be thankfull , and to glorifie God abundantly in this behalfe . He hath no● dealt so with many of his children : nor have thousands of Professors any such perswasion or knowledge of them . Yet these Gentlemen may please to understand , that such a knowledge of spirituall Truths , which is sufficient to strengthen a mans hand to die for them , may very possibly be farre from a CERTAINE knowledge of them . Wee have read and heard of man 〈…〉 who have been enabled to die , yea and have died , for some Doctrines or Opinions , out of that strength of perswasion which they had of the Truth of them , which notwithstanding wee generally know were not true . Now most certaine it is , that there can be no CERTAINE knowledge of the truth of any thing , that is false . Therefore such a knowledge or perswasion of any Gospel-Truth , which makes men willing and ready to die for it , is no sufficient proofe of a CERTAINTY in this knowledge . Which considered , that opposition between a necessity of being Scepticks in Religion , and a necessity of knowing some things certainly ( which our Answer-men make in the sequell of this part of their Answer ) gives no testimony at all either to their learning or understanding . For no man ( I presume ) will call him a Sceptick in Religion , who is so farre perswaded and confidenced of what he holds in it , that he is willing and ready to die in attestation of the Truth thereof . And yet ( as hath been said ) such a perswasion or confidence as this , doth no wayes import a CERTAINTY of knowledge .

Sixtly , It is the common Doctrine and Opinion of those Authors , Sect. 52. which are generally by Protestants reputed Classique and Orthodox ( though mine owne Jugdement I confesse , rather inclines another way , that all other Arguments and proofes , which Sect. 25. are usually ( yea , or which can be ) brought , to prove the Divinity of the Scriptures , and the Truth of this Gospell , are but Dialecticall , and probable , not demonstrative , or conclusive without all feare of Truth on the other side , or however not sufficient to perswade men to a firme assent unto them . They onely allow the supernaturall and immediate worke of the Spirit * * Atque hoc argumentum [ nempe Testificatio Spiritus Sancti , &c. ] ut est renatorum proprium , ita solum corda eorum , non solum de veritate & Authoritate Scripturae sacrae convincit , sed etiam persuadet , ut assentiantur , & in eâ firmiter acquiescant : reliqua omnia communia sunt etiam non conversis , quos quidem etiam convincunt , atque ora contradicentibus obturant , sed SOLA NON PERSUADENT NEC MOVENT AD ASSENTIENDUM , NISI INTUS TESTIMONIUM SPIRITUS SANCTI ACCEDAT Ursimus Catech. Proleg . c. 4. Sect. 14. Haec cer●è à legentibus & audientibus percipiuntur . Sed ut cum fructu fiat & verâ fide , necessarium est , ut suorum uniuscujusque afflatu Spiri●ls sui , cor tangat , ut veritatem Divinam in his Scriptis elucentem agnoscat , ad quorum lumen alioqui ambulare non possunt qui spirituali caecitate detin●ntur , donee Deus iis , quibus verbum illud legitur aut praedicatur , CORDA ILLUMINET ; sine quo Spiritûs motu , Ecclesiae verae testimonium , quod medium ad fidem utile etiam censemus , sed neque unicum , NEQUE SUFFICIENS , prorsus esset inefficax . Andr. Rivet . Isag . cap. ● . Sect. 8. Quare quod piis hominibus sole clarius est , illis [ qui sunt mentibus obtenebratis ] quavis est caligine obscurius . Musc. Loc. De sacris Scripturis . Quare si nostrum illud , credere Scripturae , pendet à Spiritu Sancto , quid obstat , quò minùs concl●damus , quod proposuimus , Scripturae authoritatem , quoad nos pendere à Spiritu Sancto agente in Conscientiis nostris ? Probatur jam minor . Nemo c●edit iis quae continentur i● Scripturâ Sanctâ nisi doctus à Deo . At quicunque credit Scripturae , credit iis omnibus , quae continentur in eâ . Ergo nemo credit Scripturae , nisi doctus à Deo , id est , per fidem insusam . Minor per se patet : quia Scripturae credere , in hac saltem controversiâ , est eam habere pro verè Divinâ , extráque omnem comparationis aleam . Chamier . Panstrat . lib. 6. cap. 3. Sect. 2 , 3. Et posteà , loquens de Augustino : Sic bonus ille Pater propriá experientiâ didicit , eam fidem , quâ amplectimur Scripturarum Authoritatem , esse à Deo , NON VERO ACQUISITUM ALIQUID . asserting and sealing up the Truth of both in the Consciences of men , as an Argument of that Interest , I meane as an Argument demonstratively and infallibly conclusive . Is it then such an hideous or enormous supposition , as these men desire to informe the world in thunder and lightning ; or is it at any such distance from their owne Principles , to suppose , that men may possibly not know CERTAINLY the great Truths of the Gospel , to be Truths ? and consequently , not know CERTAINLY , that the opinions threatned with death in the Ordinance , are damnable heresies ? Is there any thing more horrid or strange in such a supposition , then there is in this ; that God hath not by the supernaturall , infallible , Sect. 26. immedate worke of his Spirit , revealed and sealed up to the Consciences of many men , the unquestionable Truth of the Gospel ? And is it any thing more strange to suppose this , then it is to suppose , that all men are not Kings , nor all Princes , nor all Nobles , nor all wise , nor all rich , with the like ? Surely these men through the abundance of their zeale , will shortly vote it , wickednesse , blasphemie , impudence , Atheisme , Devillisme , an impiety calling for an Anathema , a delivering up unto Satan , &c. for a man to suppose or intimate , that light is not darknesse ; or that darknesse is not light ; that sweet is not bitter , or , that bitter is not sweet ; that a mans feet are not his hands , or that his head is not his feet . The most cleere and pregnant truth is , that the intimation , wherewith they charge the Querie now in Sanctuarie , ( and this undeservedly too ) and against which they rise up in the might of their indignation , is of no more demerit , no more worthy censure , then one of these ; yea and that the most innocent of them , if any be suspected . Deare English soules , take heed of putting a Scepter into the hands of these men . For they can be angry and become Lyons , and call eares , hornes , when they please .

By the way , before wee leave this point , I desire , by occasion of the ground lately mentioned , as the common , if not the generall , Tenet of our best and most Orthodoxe Writers , that it be taken into serious consideration ; whether , or how farre it is meet to punish or censute poore miserable men , for not holding , or not asserting the Truth of those things ; which they cannot come , without much labour and contention of mind , yea not without some good degree of reason and understanding too , to judge so much as probable ; nor at al to come to believe or know them CERTAINLY , but onely by an immediate and supernaturall work of the Spirit of God ? Are men to be punished , because God hath not imparted unto them his Spirit of Grace , and supernaturall illumination ?

Seventhly , and lastly ; Neither is it true ( as hath been prov'd at Sect. 26. large ) that all the opinions threatned with death in the Ordinance , are either contrary to the manifest word of God , or overthrowing the foundations of Christian Religion . Therefore no such 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or properties in them as these , can be any reason , to prove , that the makers of the Ordinance must needs CERTAINLY know them to be damnable Sect. 27. heresies . For non entis , nulla est efficacia , nulla operati● . That which is not , cannot be a reason or cause , of that which i● . A mans person cannot be protected by a Castle in the aire . By the way , I suppose that by the manifest word of God , the Answerers meane , Texts , or passages , first , of such Scriptures which are manifestly , i. unquestionably , and without all dispute , the word of God . And secondly , which are capable of no other exposition , sense or meaning , but what as plainly and directly as in the very termes themselves , exhibit and give out the opinion , whether one , or more asserted by them . If they intend or meane any thing lesse then this , by their , manifest word of God , they speake snares and ambiguities : therefore in this sense I understand them , and counter-argue with them thus . First , that all the Opinions sentenced with death in the Ordinance , are not contrary to the manifest word of God , is evident by what hath been already argued , concerning this ( which is one of them ) viz. that God is not one in three Persons a a Sec Sect. 19 , 20 , 21. . This , how untrue or erroneous soever , in a sense , it may be , is not contrary to any manifest word of God . Nor have the Syllogismers proved so much as one jot or title of this : and yet I believe they have proved as much of it , as ever they will doe , or can doe . So againe , That Christ is not God coequall with the Father ( which is another of these Opinions ; ) neither is this contrary to any manifest word of God in the sense declared : though I judge it contrary to the Truth . Probatio incumbit affirmanti : Let the assertors of it to be so , prove their assertion ; but to say much , and prove little , is one of the principall pillars in their Schoole . So againe , that Christs death is not meritorious in the behalfe of believers , is another of these Opinions : I marvell what manifest word of God they will finde , unto which this is contrary . That the Scriptures are not the word of God , is another : taking the word , Scriptures , for all the bookes of the Old and New Testament , divifim and conjunctim as they are now received and acknowledged amongst us ( which is the onely sense the Ordinance can reasonably meane ) if they can find me any manifest word of God , whereunto this is contrary , I will in recompence of such a favour , abate them three absurdities and foure , in the sequell of my examination of their Vindication . Againe Sect. 27.

Secondly , neither are all the said Opinions sentenced in the Ordinance with death , overthrowing the very foundations of Christian Religion . Sect. 27. Taking the word , Scriptures , in the sense even now declared , viz. for all , and every the bookes of the Old and New Testament , this Opinion , that the Scriptures are not the word of God , doth not overthrow the foundations of Christian Religion . The book of the Revelation is Scripture , or a parcell of the Scriptures ; yet was this booke for a long time together denyed to be the word of God , by far the greater part of Christians in the world ; who yet remain'd unshaken in the foundations of their Religion . Luther denyed the Epistle of James to be the word of God ; and yet was built as strongly upon the foundations of Christian Religion , as these severe Taxe-Masters themselves ( no disparagement to their Faith : ) Musculus himselfe so farre professeth himselfe to reverence the judgement of some of the Canonicalnesse of the latter Epistle of Peter , the two latter Epistles of John , the Epistle of Jude , the Epistle to the Herbrewes , and the Apocalyps ; yea and of some later writers also ( for he speakes in the plurall number ) who discanon the Epistle of Jude , that he judgeth himselfe lesse tyed or bound up in his judgement by these Scriptures , then by other . a a Inter libros Novi Testamenti sunt nonnulli , d● quibus etiam veterum sententiae variant : utpote Epistola posterior Petri , duae posteriores Johannis , Epistola Judae , Epistola ad Hebraeos , & Apocalypsis Iohannis , quae in Concilio Laodiceno cap. 39. & ultimo , inter Canonicas Scripturas non recitatur : quibus etiam eam , quae Iacobo inscribitur , quidam reccen●iores connumerant . M●● modestiae non est ut de his pronunciem , sintneeorum , sub quorum nominibus extant , vel secus . ludicia tamen veterum hoc efficiunt , ut minùs simillis , quam coeteris Scripturis astrictus ; l●cèt haud facilè quaevis damnanda cens●am , quae in illis leguntur . Musculus Loc. De sacris Scripturis . It were easie to adde more instances of like nature . And though for my selfe , I can , and doe without sc●uple , subscribe to the Truth of this Doctrine , yea and am ready , God assisting , to die for it , that God is one in three Persons ; yet I know some who denie it ; who notwithstanding this denyall , I know also in part by my owne experience and acquaintance , but more fully by the testimony of others ( worthy credit in as great a matter as this ) to be of exemplary life , fruitfull in good workes , holy , heavenly , Christian in all their Conversation ; as farre as men are able to judge or discerne . Shall wee say , that such men as these , hold not the foundations of Christian Religion ? But it is none of least or lowest of our Classick intrusions to umpire among the Starres ( I meane the Doctrines of Christian Religion ) and to determine positively and above all possibility of mistake , which are of the first , which of the second , which of the third magnitude ; Sect. 28. and with all , to call them all by their Names ; as if they knew them as exactly , as he that made them .

Besides , when the Ordinance sentenceth a denying of the Scriptures Sect. 28. to be the word of God , with death ; I desire to know , whether by the SCRIPTVRES , it meaneth , the English Scriptures , or that book or rather volume of bookes , called the Bible , translated ( as is said and as I believe ) out of the originall , Hebrew and Greek copies into the English tongue : Or , these Originall or Greek copies themselves : or my third thing really differing from either of these . I suppose , it is no foundation of Christian Religion , to believe that the SCRIPTVRES , in the first sense , are the word of God : these Rabbies themselves , doe not hold it for an Article of their Faith , that God spake to his Prophets , or Apostles in English ; no nor yet that our English Translation doth agree in all things with the true sense and meaning of the Originalls . If they doe believe either of these , I must thus farre professe my selfe an Anti-sidian to them . If by the SCRIPTVRES , the Ordinance meaneth , the Originall Hebrew and Greek copies , out of which the English Bible is said to be translated ; I desire to know , upon what grounds , either of Reason , or Religion , these men , or any others , can require of men under the paine of death , yea under the paine of eternall death a a The Vindicaters , call the denying of the Scriptures to be the word of God , a DAMNABLE heresie . , to believe such writings to be the word of God , the matter , or contents wherof they neither know , nor are capable of knowing , upon any better termes of assurance ( I meane in an ordinary way of providence ) then the testimony , Common Report , or Authority of men ? For what other or better assurance , can plaine and unlearned men , and such who are altogether ignorant of the originall Languages , and not in any capacity of learning them ( which is the case of thousand thousands in the Land ) attaine or come unto , that such and such things , as the English Translation presenteth unto them , are contained in those Originall Copies ? Yea in case they were expert in the Originall Languages themselves , according to what is called expertnesse or skilfulnesse in them at this day ; what other , or what better assurance can they have , then the Testimony and Authority of those men , from or by whom they have gained this knowledge , that this skill or knowledge of theirs is according to the Truth ; or that those respective significations , meanings , importances of words and Sect. 29. phrases , which they have learned from men , are the very same with those , which the Pen-men of their Originall Copies intended respectively in their writings ? It is well knowne amongst Scholars , and men but of ordinary reading , that words and phrases in other Languages , by continuance of time and succession of generations , lose their primitive and ancient force and significations , and contract such , which are very much differing from them . Many instances might be given hereof both in the Latine tongue , and our owne : but I leave this for men , the face of whose studies is set towards such observations . And put the case there were no such mortality as wee speake of in the significations and importances of words , but that they also were yesterday , and to day , and the same for ever ; yet the Scholler can have no better assurance then his Masters honesty or word , that he is taught by him according to the best of his skill or knowledge ; except ( haply ) it be the concurrent testimony of other Teachers in the same Profession ; whose words and testimonies are but of the same line of fallibility , with his . So then , the holding the Scriptures to be the word of God , in either of these two senses , or significations of the word , can with no tolerable pretext or colour , be called a foundation of Christian Religion ; unlesse their foundations be made of the credits , Learnings , and Authorities of men . If the Ordinance intendeth any third sense , of the word , SCRIPTVRES , when it threatneth the denyall of them to be the word of God , with death ; these undertakers for the Innocencie of it , shall doe well to declare and explain this sense , and not to leave it as a Lyon hid in a thicker , to break out upon , and destroy those that passe by at unawares .

Thus have wee prov'd at large , that the two legs , on which Sect. 29. the Anti-Querists Answer to their second Argument stands , to be but two sticks covered with rotten or proud flesh , and this skin'd over onely with a superficiall or washie colour of Reason ; and consequently , that the said Argument remaineth still in full force , strength , and vertue ; and so the Querie , from whence it was drawne , to be impregnable , honest , sober , and harmelesse , as well in the proposall , as consideration of it , no wayes unbecomming the wisdome , gravity , or zeale of a sound Christian . As for that distinction which they subjoyne , concerning a mans being infallible , I cannot likely thinke but that they are self-condemned in it . Sect. 30. For surely they could not imagine , that the Querie speaks of any absolute or universall infallibility ; or that the Querist doth not partake so farre in common sense with the Anti-Querists themselves , as to know , that an infallibility in discerning some one thing from another , doth not necessarily require an universall or infinite infallibility ? And th●fore to what purpose come they forth with this grave Aphorisme ; that ●●● may certainely know some things , and yet not be infallible in all things ? Had it not been a saying of as much savour , if they had said ; certainly men may be worth an hundred pound in estate , though they be not worth a thousand ; a Sparrow may be as big as a Partrich , though it be not as big as a Swan . And yet notwithstanding , though they build their Answers with such hey & stubble as these , they must needs glory over the work of their hands with this acclamati●n ; Thus this second Querie is sufficiently answered , &c. Surely the word , SVFFICIENTLY , in these mens Dialect , imports the manner of all actings and pleadings for the High-Presbyterian cause : so that whatsoever they shall say , or argue in order unto this , it receives this modification from betweene the efficient , and the end ; it is SVFFICIENTLY argued and prov'd . May they no● ( in a manner ) as well pretend and say , when they have onely cited those first words in Genesis , In the beginning God made Heaven and Earth , that they have by this Scripture SVFFICIENTLY proved the Jus Divinum of Presbytery ; as make their boast , that they have SVFFICIENTLY answered my second Querie with those impertinent , weake , reasonlesse , truth-lesse allegations ( as hath been abundantly proved ) of which this Answer ( so called ) is made ? But as it was in that old saying amongst the Romans , between their two Captaines , that Ode●●●u● conquered , but Gallienus triumphed : so is it between the present Syllogisme , and the Answer to it : The Syllogisme conquers , and the Answer triumpheth . Oh England , my heart is inlarged towards thee , and I will open my mouth proportionably unto thee : Take heed of the grand Imposture , of this word , SVFFICIENTLY , in the writings , and in the teachings of thy Teachers : they have learned , to call their chaffe , wheat : and to say of stones , that they are bread .

But in what degree these men were straightned for want of reason , Sect. 30. in answering their owne Argument , they are inlarged in Sect. 30. passion against my Querie . But what ? were they so super-superlatively incens'd against it , because they were able to make no better worke of answering it ? Or di● th● spirit of it touch the apple of their eye , and so through the extream●ty of the paine , their imaginations suffered , yea and their Consciences also , through a consent and sympathie with the part affected ? But whatsoever the true cause of the accident is ; I verily believe , that never did there such a flood of prophane and senselesse passion , breake out of the spirits of men that were called Christian , from the first day of this Denomination in the world , to this very houre , as these men poure out upon a Querie , whose innocencie , ( I say not , weight and worth ) hath been vindicated upon such grounds of evidence and Truth , that the light of the Sunne is not more apparent at noone-day , then it . Were not the Fountaines of the great deep of Corruption within them all broken up , when this Deluge of bitter waters issued from them ? And as Joshua , that he and the people with him might be avenged of their enemies , spake unto the Sunne and Moone to stand still ; Sunne , stand thou still upon Gibeon ; and thou , Moone , in the valley of Ajalon a a Josh. 10. 12. ; so did not these men , their hearts being set to take revenge upon the Querist , when they girded themselves to the worke , commanded their reasons and consciensces to stand still , and cease from their motions ; each of them respectively directing themselves to their own , and saying , Reason , stand thou still over passion ; and thou , Conscience , in the valley of Indignation , untill wee have avenged our selves in fire and brimstone upon our enemies , that Arch-Enemy of our most beloved Designes ? But if in the day of their Answer , ( I meane , in the Rationall part of it ) we found nothing but night and darknesse ; can wee hope in the night thereof , I meane the passionate part of it , to find day , or so much as the dawnings of reason , truth , or understanding ? I had once thoughts of speaking particularly to every straine and passage herein : but upon more mature debate with my self about the undertaking , I considered , that in case I were an Engineere , I should doe but childishly , to load a Cannon only to batter a mushrome , or a bubble which children raise with soape and spittle out of a nut-shell .

And thus our second Querie , that great abomination of Classick soules , hath fully recovered her selfe out of those fogges and Sect. 31. mists , which partly by the ignorance , partly by the ill will of her adversaries , were spread round about her , and shines in perfect beautie ; being onely troubled and full of sorrow for this ; that ever shee should be an occasion to men pretending to Religion , of so much rebuke and shame , as must needs fall upon those who have opposed her . Sect. 31.

Their third Argument rejoyceth against their Answer given to it , because this also is built upon sandy foundations . As 1. that to be called Rabbi , is to require men to beleeve that which they teach them , meerly because they teach it without any Authoritie from God in his Word . This is a most strange , and truthlesse saying ; and excuseth Scribes and Pharisees , ( and who not ? ) from ever desiring to be called Rabbi . For certainly none of these were ever so simple , as to require men to beleeve that which they taught them , MEERLY because they taught it without any Authoritie from God in his word . There was none of them all , but pretended Authoritie from God in his word , for what they taught ; but especially , it is the first-borne of incredibilities , that they should require men to beleeve what they taught them , upon this ground , MEERLY because they taught it without any Authoritie from God in his word . Can it enter into the heart of a man , especially of any man that professeth the service of the true God , and beliefe of the Scriptures , to thinke honorably of his Teacher , MEERLY and simply because he teacheth without any Authoritie from God in his word ? Certainly if the Scribes and Pharisees had fish'd with this baite , especially amongst the Jewes , for the acclamations of Rabbi , they had caught nothing but contempt and shame in stead thereof . Therefore for men to enjoyne or compell men to call them Rabbi , is ( in the sence of the Querie , & in the Scripture import of the phrase ) either to enjoyne them ( especially under any penaltie , as of their dis-favour , or the dis-favour of God , or otherwise ) to receive or beleeve any Doctrine , as the Truth of God , because they teach it for such , viz. either as a true Interpretation of , or deduction from the word of God , whether they give any sufficient account that it is either the one , or the other , unto those , on whom they impose upon such terms , this tribute of beliefe ; or else to prohibit them , on the like terms , the holding and maintaining of such or such Doctrines , because they judge them to be contrary to the word of God , without giving any sufficient account or reason unto the prohibited , Sect. 32. to prove them so . Now I querie the Anti-Querists , whether the makers of the Ordinance doe not in this sence , compell men to call them Rabbi ; i. Whether they doe not prohibit men under penalties , and those most grievous , from holding forth such and such Doctrines , as being contrary to the word of God , without giving any sufficient account ( or indeed any at all ; that I say not , without being able to give any that is sufficient ) unto the persons thus prohibited , that they are indeed contrary to this word .

2. The Answer now under correction , is polluted with this uncleane Sect. 32. supposition ; viz. that the makers of the Ordinance doe nothing else therein , that can be interpreted a desire to be called Rabbi , then to charge men that they teach no other Doctrine , then what the word of God holds forth , and the Prophets and Apostles have taught a a Pag. 7. . Most unworthy men ! First , there is not one jot or tittle of any such charge as this in the Ordinance . 2. There is that in the Ordinance ( which was even now mentioned ) which in the strictest and most proper sence of the phrase , is to compell men to call them Rabbi ; and this of no affinitie at all with the tenour or substance of such a charge . And whereas it further addeth ; that if any Church-Censures be to be used for any matter of Doctrine , this will be as much to force men to call them Rabbi , as the Civill Magistrates making this Ordinance , forces any to call them Rabbi : I answer , this assertion or comparison is true , onely with this explication , viz. when any Church-Censure shall be used for any matter of Doctrine , without any sufficient account given by this Church of the erroneousnesse of this Doctrine , unto the person , or persons , against whom the censure shall passe . In this case , Church-Censures for matters of Doctrine , and the Ordinancecensures , are much of one and the same consideration ▪

3. As this Answer saith , that for the proofe of the minor , it is nothing else , but a reiteration in other language of the former blasphemies against the Doctrine of God and Christ , belched out in the former Querie , and needs no other answer then that ; so say I of this assertion ; it is nothing else but a reiteration in fewer words , of those truth-lesse , reason-lesse , sap-lesse , sence-lesse imputations , belched out against that Querie , and needs no other Answer , then what hath been already at large given to it . But

4. ( And lastly ) This Answer is a most notorious Delinquent Sect. 33. against the truth , in asserting , that those that have any sence of Religion , Sect. 40. know ( whether the Magistrate should recommend them , or not ) those Doctrines ( viz. which are any wayes sentenced in the Ordinance ; for the Querie , on which this Argument pretends to be built , queries concerning all the Doctrines specified in the Ordinance ) to be the sacred Truths of God , as being the KNOWNE PRINCIPLES OF CHRISTIANITIE , and clearly to be proved out of the word of God . Certainly there have bin and are , thousand thousands in the world , who have had as rich and deep a sence of Religion , as our Anti-Querie-masters themselves , who never esteemed , either the Government of the Church by Presbyterie , or the lawfulnesse of Baptizing Infants , or the being of the Churches of England , true Churches , ( with many Doctrines more punishable by the Ordinance ) to be any of the known principles of Christianitie . Nay did there any untill now , even among those whose judgements stood for Church-Government by Presbyterie , or that held the Churches of England to be true Churches , ever assert these for the knowne Principles of Christianitie ? That N. B. ought to be Parson , or Pastor of the Parish-Church of D ; or that M. N. ought to stand in the same relation to the Parish-Church of another D. are not these also the knowne Principles of Christianitie ? O Church , or Churches of England , be ye true , or be ye false ; as you love the things of your peace , look out better Oracles then such Teachers as these , to consult with about the Principles of your Christianitie .

In their fourth Argument , as likewise in their Answer to it , they Sect. 34. take no notice at all , of what the Querie honestly desired to remind them , viz. of any dying themselves for the maintenance and defence of their Religion ; but onely of putting others to death for th●se ends . I hope they do not intimate hereby , that their lives are dearer to them , then their Religion , though other mens lives be not . Well , but how doe they prove that it is Christian to maintaine Religion by putting others to death ? ( though they know not , it seemes , what to say of maintaining it by dying themselves . ) Their proof is that staple commoditie in the Classiq●e Trade , viz. the Law of God in the old Testament , which commanded false Prophets , and Blasphemers , and those that seduce to Idolatrie to be put to death . But if I should goe about to prove , that the man Moses is now alive , by this argument , viz. because he was alive under the old Testament , should I not spread a table of mirth for these men ? Or if I should goe about to prove , that such or such an habit , is of the French fashion , because it is of Sect. 34. the Spanish , would they approve my Logique ? If they did , I should scarce approve of their approbation . And is there any better sinew in their reasoning , wherein they prove a thing to be Christian , because it is Jewish ? Yea , but they were aware of this exception , and way-layed it thus . This Law of God given under the old Testament , for putting false Prophets , Blasphemers , and seducers to Idolatrie , to death , is still in force , even for the maintenance of Religion . But how doe they prove this ? thus : because the reason which God gives of such a Law , is this ; that all the people may heare and feare , and doe no more so wickedly . Deut. 13. 11. The ground upon which this reason stands , and must be made Orthodox , ( if there be any such thing in it ) is this ; that whilst the reason of any Commandement or Law takes place , or is in force , the Law or Commandement it selfe , grounded upon that reason , must take place , and be in force also . But of how ill a compliance such a reason or assertion as this , is with the Truth , will sufficiently appeare by these parallels ; Abraham received the signe of Circumcision , a seale of the righteousnesse of Faith a a Rom. 4. 11. ; i. in the nature of a seale , or , that it might be a seale , unto him , and his posteritie , of the righteousnesse of Faith . But this end of Circumcision , the sealing of the righteousnesse of Faith , still takes place ; i. it is still necessary , that the righteousnesse of Faith be sealed unto men . Therefore Circumcision , or the Law commanding Circumcision , is still in force . Take another ; God commanded the children of Israel under the old Testament , to make them fringes in the border of their garments , thoroughout their generations ( there is no such clause as this in the Law for putting blasphemers or Idolaters to death , for the perpetuation of it , ) and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue ; And that it should be unto them for a fringe , that they might look upon it , and remember all the Commandements of the Lord , and doe them , and that they seek not after their own heart , and their own eyes b b Num. 15. 38 , 39. . But the end of these fringes , and of the looking of them , viz. the remembring of all the Commandements of the Lord , and the doing of them , and the not seeking after our own heart , or eyes , takes place , and is still in force under the New Testament . Therfore the commandement which enjoyns them for such an end , is still in force : and consequently the Anti-Querists ought to weare fringes with a ribband of blue upon their garments .

If it be here answered and said ; it 's ●●ue , the Lawes enjoyning Sect. 35. Ceremonies , or things typicall , as Circumcision and fringes were , Sect. 35. though the end of them still takes place , and remaines under the New Testament , yet the Commandements themselves , and the Ceremonies or typicall things commanded , are abolished by Christ ; but the putting of Idolaters , blasphemers , false Prophets to death , are not Ceremonies , or things typicall ; Therefore the Lawes injoyning these may remaine in force , though the other be abolished ; and the rather , because their end ( as hath been said ) remaineth . But for Answer ,

1. Be it so ; that these latter commands were not abrogated by Christ , ( though the Truth will appeare on the other side ) yet the Gentlemens reason urged for their non-abrogation , is lame ; viz. that their end is still in force . If this were a sufficient reason for the non-abrogation of a Law , those other Lawes enjoyning Ceremonies , would be still in force , and as much un-abrogated , as these ; their ends ( as hath been proved ) remaining in force , as well as the end of these . And these Gentlemen ( I make no question ) know by this time , that they are in a Logique premunire in this argument , as being guilty of treason against that soveraigne Maxime ; A quatenus , ad de omni , efficax est illatio . And yet the truth is , that if the continuance of the ends in force , of those Lawes they speake of under the old Testament , be altogether impertinent and insufficient ( as wee have shewed it is ) to evince a still-standing , or a non-abrogation of the Lawes themselves ; I know not how to relieve them in this case , nor where to finde a reason better colouring with such a supposition . But

2. Neither is it such a Sun-shine Truth , to say that the punishments enjoyned by God under the Old Testament , were not typicall . Certaine I am , that the Apostle Paul , having spoken particularly of severall punishments executed by God upon his people under the Old Testament , upon the occasion concludes thus : 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . i. All these [ things , or , punishments ] befell them as types a a 1 Cor. 10. 11 . And as the common opinion ( I suppose of these Divines themselves ) is , that the promises made unto the Jews , of the Land of Canaan , and externall happinesse and peace there , in the Old Testament , were typicall , as well as literall , carnall , historicall , whereas the promises made unto the Churches of God under the New Testament , are generally more spirituall , having lesse of the Earth , and more of Heaven in them ; So if I shall say , that the Sect. 36. threatenings , or punishments also enjoyned by God then , ( I meane under the Leviticall Law ) to be inflicted in his Church upon delinquents , were more bodily , and afflictive to the outer man , then the punishments enjoyned under the Gospel , and consequently , were not onely carnall or bodily , but typicall also , and presignificative of those greater and more spirituall in the Gospel ; I say , if I should reason thus à comparatis , I beleeve I should receive no better answer to my Argument from my Classique Antagonists , then I have done to my Queries in their Vindication . For certainly , the Analogie is savourie and Scripture-like : that as God , when he discovered and opened Heaven more then he had done formerly , thought good to put more of it , and of things relating to it , and lesse of the Earth , and of the things thereof , into those promises of his , by which he now intended to gather in the world unto him ; in like manner , when he had discovered Hell also , and the dreadfull terror thereof , farre beyond all former discoveries , that he should put more of it , and of things relating to it , and lesse of outward or bodily sufferings , into those threatenings or punishments , by which his purpose was to vindicate the Gospel , with the Grace thereof from disobedience and contempt in his Churches . Cutting off from his people , under the Law , is exchanged , for casting out from his people , under the Gospel . And if the expression of cutting off , be any where found in the Gospel , it is metaphoricall , and allusive onely to the usuall manner of dealing with , or at least of threatening offenders under the Law ; being such a figurative expression , as that wherein Beleevers , are called Priests a a Revel. 1. 6. ; and their distributions , or almes-deeds , Sacrifices b b Heb. 13. .

3. There is this cleere reason , why that Old Testament Law , for Sect. 36. the putting of false Prophets , Blasphemers , and seducers to Idolatrie , to death , should not now be in force upon any such terms as it was , when , and where it was given ; because in all difficult cases that happened about matters of Religion , the Jewes to whom this Law was given , had the opportunitie of immediate consultation with the mouth of God himselfe ; who could , and did from time to time , infallibly declare what his own mind and pleasure was in them . So that except those that were to give sentence in cases of Religion , had been desperately wicked , and set upon bloud , and had despised that glorious Ordinance of the Oracle of God amongst them , they could Sect. 36. not doe injustice ; because God himselfe was alwayes at hand , to declare unto them what was meet to be done ; and what kinde of Blasphemer , and so what kinde of Idolater particularly it was , that he by his Law intended should be put to death . Whereas now , the best ●●acles that Magistrates and Judges have to direct them in doubtfull cases abou● matters of Religion , are men of very fallible judgements , and every wayes obnoxious unto error and mistake . Yea confident I am , that the wisest and most learned of them , are not able cleerly or demonstratively to informe the Magistrate or Judge , what Blasphemy , or what Idolatrie it was , which was by God sentenced to death under the Law . I cannot but think that they will ( for acquaintance sake ) be mercifull unto that Idolatrie , ( and not vote with the old Law against it ) which yet the Apostle Paul condemnes , and commands to be mortified , ( Col. 3. 5. ) And for many other things or practises , which are commonly called Idolatrie , and so ( I question not ) voted by these men ; I must ( for conscience sake ) so farre be mercifull unto them , as not to judge them neither sentenced by God to death in that Law . And for that Blasphemie , which was made punishable with death by this Law ; some of the Jewes restraine it onely to the naming or expressing of the Name Jehovah ; others of them , extend it no further then to the naming of this , and that other Name of God , Adonaic . I presume that our Anti-Querie-masters themselves doe not judge the naming of either the one , or the other , or both of these Names , to be a Blasphemie worthy death : no nor yet to be the Blasphemie sentenced by God to death under the Law . Where our English Translation readeth , Blasphemeth , And whosoever shall blaspheme the Name of the Lord , ( Levit. 24. 16. ) The Chaldee translateth , expresseth : the Septuagint , nameth ; ( which they doe also , vers. 11. a a See M. Ainsworth upon the places . ) Junius and Tremellius reade the clause thus : Qui verò execratur nomen Jehovae , i. But who so curseth the Name of Jehovah . So that it seemes the greatest Doctors , both of Jewes and Gentiles , differ , and are at a losse , the light of their great learning notwithstanding , about the nature , qualitie , or kinde of that Blasphemie , which was by God made punishable with death in his Law . But our Anti-Querists ( it seemes ) are wiser then either Jewes or Gentiles . Therefore to goe about to prove , that the Law for putting Blasphemers , and seducers to Idolatrie to death , is now , or amongst us in force , because it was once given unto the Jewes ; Sect. 37. is as if I should prove , that a man may safely and without danger walke among bogges , and precipices , and ditches at midnight , because he may well doe it at noone-day .

4. They that will have the ancient Law for putting Blasphemers Sect. 37. and Idolaters to death , to be now in force , by vertue of that ●●nction or promulgation which it received from God under the Old Testament , must consequently hold , that it is in force , not simply as to the inflicting of death upon the offenders , but in all other particulars also that were commanded by the same Authoritie with this . As 1. the person tempted to Idolatrie , must not conceale the tempter , be he brother , sonne , daughter , wife , friend , never so d●are , but must kill him himselfe ; for so the Law run● ; But THOV shalt surely kill him ; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death a a Deut. 13 ▪ 9. . 2. Though he must kill him himselfe , yet it must be with the joynt concurrence and assistance of all the people ; for so it follows in the Law : And afterwards the hand of all the people b b Ibid. . 3. Nor must he kill him after any manner , nor with any kinde of death ; but with stones onely . For so saith the Law : And thou shalt stone him with stones , that he die c c Vers. 10. . 4. Not onely the seducer unto Idolatrie , but even the seduced themselves , especially if they be a whole Citie , must be put to death . The Law is as expresse in this , as in any of the former . Thou shalt surely smite the Inhabitants of that Citie with the edge of the sword d d Vers. 15. . 5. Not onely the inhabitants of this Citie must be slaine , but the cattell also therein . The Law is punctuall in this also . And the cattell therein with the edge of the sword e e Ibid. . 6. Not the men and beasts onely must be slaine , but the Citie it self must be utterly r●●'d , ruin'd , destroyed : Destroying it utterly ( saith the Law ) and all that is therein f f Ibid. . 7. This Citie must be an heap for ever , and never built againe g g Vers. 16. . These are the plaine words of the Law . 8. ( And lastly ) it was not lawfull to preserve any thing , though never so little , of the stuffe or goods belonging to this Citie ; but it was , even every whit of it to be burnt with fire . And thou shalt gather ( saith Moses ) all the spoyle of it into the midst of the street thereof , and shalt burne with fire the Citie , and all the spoyle thereof , every whit h h Ibid. . So then , if the men with whom we have to doe , will needs raise the dead unto life , and give present vigor and force to the Commandement of God under the Old Law for putting Blasphemers and Idolaters to death ; I must say unto them , as Paul saith to the Galatians in the case of Circumcision ; Sect. 37. For I testifie againe ( saith he ) to every man that is circumcised , that he is a debtor to doe the whole Law a a Gal. 5 ▪ 3. . In like manner if men will urge the Law for putting those oft-named Offenders unto death , as being still in force , they make themselves debtors , to require and urge the execution of this whole Law , in all the particularities and circumstances thereunto belonging , as they have been mentioned . For who hath any power to make an Election and Reprobation amongst the Commandements of God , where God himselfe hath made none ? Or to say unto him , in this , or in that wee will obey thee , but in a third , and a fourth , we must be excused ? Is this the Divinitie , and conscience of these men ? If therefore there be no perswading of them , but that the said Offenders must needs die by vertue of that Law so oft specified , let them first provide and presse it as matter of dutie and conscience upon the Magistrate or Judge , that they die no other death , then by stones : 2. In case themselves shall at any time be the accusers of such persons , they must make conscience of it to be the executioners likewise of death upon them themselves , or with their own hands . 3. They must enjoyne all the people to joyne with them in the execution ; and so goe along in all the other particulars , teaching for Doctrines , and pressing for duties , all the respective branches of the Law , as they have been presented from the Scriptures . For the Commandement of God is expresse and strict in this behalfe . Yee shall not adde unto the word which I command you , neither shall yo● diminish ought from it , that yee may keep the commandements of the Lord your God , which I command you b b Deut. 4. 2. . Which cleerly implieth , that they doe not keep the commandements of God , who maime and mangle them , who take and leave of them at their pleasures . The men we speake of , making somewhat of the Law contended about , to be in force , and some things of it , not ; make this Law of God like unto a man struck with a dead palsie , who hath one half of himselfe alive , and the other half dead ; or like those imperfect animals , that were bred of the slime and mud which the Deluge le●t behinde it , as the Poet describeth them . Altera pars vivit , rudis est par● altera tellus , i. One part 's alive ; the other , dead lumpish Earth . Yea , these men by umpiring the commands of God as they doe , make themselves as so many Nebuchadnezzars amongst them ; who acted that power which he had on earth upon such terms , that Sect. 38. ( as the Prophet Daniel told his Son ) whom he would , be slew , and whom he would , be kept alive : and whom he would , he set up , and whom he would , he put downe a a Dan. 5. 19. . Oh England , if thy Teachers claime and exercise this arbitrarie power over the Precepts and Commandements of God , take thou heed of their Kingdome . But

5. Those particularities which have been mentioned , a● annexed Sect. 38. unto , and co-injoyned with the commandement for putting Idolaters and Blasphemers to death , ( with some others ) as , 1. the kind of death , viz. by stoning : 2. the enjoyning the accuser , to be the first in the execution , and that with his own hands . 3. The slaying of the cattell also with the sword . 4. The burning of the stuffe or goods of the offenders with fire , and that every whit , ( with the rest ; ) these ( I say ) doe sufficiently intimate , that the Law or Commandement it selfe , was appropriate unto the Nation of the Jewes , and not intended for other Churches , States , or Kingdomes , under the Gospel : none of which ever practised , or thought themselves bound in conscience to practise any of them : nor indeed had any sufficient ground , whereon to judge themselves bound in conscience to practise them ; no nor yet were any of them ever taught by any of their Teachers , though many of these were resolute enough for that Church-Government , which now acteth with so much impatiency for her exaltation .

6. If the obligation of the Mosaicall Law for putting Blasphemers , Idolaters , &c. to death , was intended by God to continue under the New Testament , why was the Apostle Paul , so farre from enjoyning a beleeving Brother , to detect , or to put to death , his infidell , or Idolatrous wife , that he doth not permit him so much as to put her away from him , in case shee please to dwell with him b b 1 Cor. 7. 12. ? And why doth ●e not enjoyne the beleeving wife , to seek to take away the life of her Idolatrous or unbeleeving Husband , according to the Law , but on the contrary requires of her not to le●ve him , if he be pleased to dwell with her ? Certainly this Doctrine of the Apostle holds no tolerable correspondency with the opinion of our severe Inquisitors , about the non-abrogation of the Law for putting Idolaters to death .

7. If the Law in Question , was by the in●e●● of God , the Law-giver , Sect. 39. to continue in its native vigour and force under the New Testament , then was every person in an Idolatrous State or Kingdome , Sect. 40. whilst it remained wholly Idolatrous , bound thereby , to seek the death one of another , yea and to destroy one another with their own hande . Yea the civill Magistrate was bound to sentence all his Subjects that practised Idolatry , to death , without exception ; and consequently to make a bloudy desolation thoroughout all his dominions . To pretend , that the said Law takes hold onely of Christian Magistrates , and binds them to the execution mentioned , not on Magistrates whilst they are yet Heathen ; is a ridiculous pretence . For what dutie soever belongs unto a Magistrate , as such , belongs to every Magistrate , of what capacitie or condition soever he be otherwise . Or if the pretence were admitted as legitimate , yet would not the absurditie be at all healed by it , but rather heightened . Because even then it would follow , that in case the Supreme Magistrate in an Idolatrous State or Kingdome , were first converted to the Christian saith , he were bound by vertue of this his conversion , to destroy the lives of all his subjects without exception , whom the present case are supposed to be all Idolaters . If it be said ; yea , but he ought first to instruct and admonish them , and by all good means to endeavour to reclaime them from their Idolatrie : If after sufficient meanes used in this kinde , they shall still persist in their Idolatries , then he is to put the said Law in Execution . I answer ; there is no such clause of mitigation or respit , as this , in the said Law ; but the Idolater , and the Blasphemer , were forthwith , upon the truth of the fact evidenced by witnesses , to be put to death a a Levit. 24. 14. 16. . Therefore if this Law be still in force , it must be put in execution without any such explication , or reserve : the addition of such an interpretation makes a new Law , and doth not establish , but rather disanulleth the old , as if it were weake and unprofitable .

8. If the said Law be in force under the Gospel , then were beleevers Sect. 40. in Idolatrous States and Kingdoms , upon their respective conversions to the Christian Faith , bound to accuse their neighbours being Idolaters , and Blasphemers , round about them , before the Magistrate , especially if he were Christian ; and to require the execution of this Law of God upon them , i. to have them put to death . Whereas the Gospel requires a quite contrary deportment in Christians towards such , viz. that which was loving and harmlesse , and apt to gaine upon them , and to perswade them into the Christian Faith . That yee walk honestly towards those that are without a a 1 Thes. 4. 12. . And Sect. 41. againe : Walk in wisdome towards those that are without b b Col. 4. 5. . As wee have opportunitie , let VS DOE GOOD VNTO ALL MEN , especially , &c c c Gal. 6. 10. . Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles , that whereas they speake against you , as evill doers , they may by your good workes which they shall behold , glorifie God in the day of visitation d d 1 Pe● 2. 12. . So that it is so farre from being the dutie of Christians to seeke the destruction of the lives , either of Idolaters or Blasphemers under the Gospel , by accusing them unto the Magistrate for either of these crimes , that there is a solemne engagement laid upon them by God to seek the salvation of their soules . Yea that Ecclesiastique or Church-punishment which the Gospel it selfe inflicts upon such offenders , is in speciall manner calculated by God for the saving of their soules e e 1 Cor. 5. 5. 1 Tim. 1. 20. .

9. ( And lastly ) If it should be granted , that all and every the Sect. 41. Lawes hitherto contested about , as well that for putting to death the false Prophet , as those for inflicting the like punishment upon the Idolater and Blasphemer , were still in force under the Gospel , yet what is this to the justification of the Ordinance ; at least in farre the greatest part of it ? Is there any thing in any of these Lawes , which so much as coloureth , much lesse cotteneth , either with the inflicting of death upon those that shall erre any of these errors , though very dangerous in their kinde , as that the bodies of men shall not rise after they be dead , or that there is no judgement after death , or that Christ is not God coequall with the Father , with divers others , which the said Ordinance threateneth with death , if published ; or with the inflicting of imprisonment upon those , that shall hold and maintaine , either that the Churches of England are not true Churches , or that the Church-Government by Presbyterie is unlawfull , or that a man by nature hath no free will to turne to God , with severall others of like consideration , no whit more favoured by the Ordinance ? Evident it is , that the Great Sect or partie among the Jewes , which are called Sadduces , with their Disciples , held and maintained publiquely , those Great Errors or Heresies ; 1. That there is neither Angel , nor Spirit ; 2. That there is no Resurrection of the dead f f Acts 23. 8. , ( which is one of the opinions made death by the Ordinance , ) yea and ( as some learned Authors report ) rejected all the Prophets besides Moses . And yet these were not onely tolerated amongst them , and not put to death , but they were in equall credit and esteeme with those of sounder judgement in these points ; yea and had great Interest , not Sect. 41. in the common sort of men onely , but also in those who were in chiefe places of power and Authoritie a a Acts 4. 1. Acts 5. 17. &c. . The Scribes and Pharisees also both held and taught many most dangerous and erroneous Doctrines , yea such by which ( as our Saviour himselfe chargeth them ) they made the Commandements of God of none eff●ct b b Mat. 15. 3 , 4. 6. . Yet were these also in great honour and esteeme in this Church and State . And though our Saviour upon occasion reasoned against , yea and reprov'd them all , for holding and teaching these errors , and gave warning unto the people to take heed of them ; yet did he never charge this Church or State , or those that bare office in either , with sin , or unfaithfulnesse in their places , for not proceeding against them , in regard of their errors , either by imprisonment , or death . And yet we know , that the zeale of his Fathers house did eate him up ; and that he attempted a Reformation amongst them , especially in matters of Religion , and the worship of God , with an high hand of zeale , wisdome , and Authoritie c c Joh. 2. 14 , 15 , &c. ; Yea , as Solomon spake of trees , from the Cedar that is in Lebanon , even unto the hyssope that springeth out of the wall d d 1 King . 4. 33. ; so did Christ teach and presse upon men , all , and all manner of duties , from judgement , mercy , and faith , ( the mightie things of the Law ) even unto the paying tithe of mint , anise , and cummin e e Mat. 23. 23. . Therefore by the false Prophet , who was commanded to be put to death , Deut. 13. 5. was not meant every Heretique , or erroneous person , ( as men in these dayes count heresie and error ; who sentence every opinion , which opposeth , either their ease , or their honour , or their profit , either as the one , or the other ) nor yet those who taught or published any false doctrine , though of dangerous consequence ; but onely those , who endeavoured to perswade men to the worship of a false God ; and that by affirming , that they spake by the inspiration of some deitie , and that their sayings were to be esteemed Oracles . What doctrine it was , which made the Prophet or Teacher of it guiltie of death , is expresly determined in the Law it self , and asserted to be this ; Let us goe after other Gods , which thou hast not knowne , and let us serve them f f Deut. 13. 2. . And that the Law of God made against false Prophets , and worshippers of false Gods , was not intended against those , who otherwise held that the Law of God was to be kept , but were infected with some other error , is sufficiently evident from hence ; because in former times among the Jews , who were affected with a vehement love and zeale towards their Law , Sect. 42. Heretiques notwithstanding ( as hath been already observed ) were tolerated ; and particularly the Sadduces , ( of whose errors and heresies we spake before . ) These , although the greatest part both of the People and the Rulers beleeved them to erre exceedingly , neverthelesse they were not expelled the Citie , neither exempted from being Magistrates , or bearing any other civill office : yea they were not hindered from coming to the Temple or the Synagogues .

All these things considered , I referre it to the arbitrement of all men of understanding , whether of the first , second , or third degree , whether our Anti-Querie-men , or their complices , who so passionately rejoyce over the old Law for putting false Prophets , Idolaters , and Blasphemers to death , as if it countenanced their occupation , of traducing , troubling , molesting , persecuting , even the Saints of God themselves , for holding and professing such opinions , which they are pleas'd to call errors or heresies ; whether ( I say ) the said Law hath any more communion with such practises or proceedings , then light hath with darknesse , or Christ with Belial . And yet this Law is the first-borne of their strength , whereby they edifie themselves in this Doctrine of violence and bloud . O Church of England , and you that number your selves amongst the members thereof , beware of men , I meane your Teachers , lest they become Jewes unto you , and goe about to perswade you , that they have a Law ; and that by their Law Christ himselfe ought to die a a Joh. 19. 7. .

They faulter in their Answer to their fift and sixt argument , ( as Sect. 42. they call it ) first , by affirming , or , which is equivalent to it , cleerly supposing , that stratagems , methods , and waies of violence and bloud , ( viz. so ordered , and put in execution upon such occasions , as the Ordinance directeth ; for except this be their meaning , they answer nothing to the purpose , nor at all to the Querie ) are those wayes which God himselfe commanded to be used for the support of the true Religion . This we have lately proved to be notoriously false . God never commanded any violence to be used , nor any bloud to be shed , nor any civill penalty to be inflicted , for any error , or misprision in judgement about matters of Religion ; but onely in case of seduction to the worship of false Gods ; which notwithstanding the Ordinance doth not at all touch or mention . Whereas they adde , as soone as they had any civill Magistrates , they speake like themselves , that is , unlike men of much understanding . For 1. who doe they meane by Sect. 43. this Pronoune , THEY ? wee have no substantive , one or more anteceding , unto which it can relate , but onely Papists , or wicked men . And did God himself command those wayes of violence and bloud , which the Ordinance insisteth upon , to be used by either of these for the support of true Religion , as soone as they had any civill Magistrates ? Tight Divinitie ! Secondly , if by the pronoune , THEY , they meane the Jewes ( which seems to be their meaning ) I wonder , and would willingly learne , how long it was , after the pretended Command given unto them for the support of true Religion , before they had Civill Magistrates ? because these learned Clerks suppose some Interim . Doubtlesse they had Moses , both before , and when , and some while after , the said Command was given unto them by God : and I have not heard that ever Moses was voted out of his civill Magistracy by any Synod or Assembly . And besides Moses , this people had , even before the giving of the Law specified , as well as after , Civill Magistrates a a Exod. 18. 24 , 25 , &c. . Againe

2. This Answer shameth the Authors , by Asserting , that Ezra Sect. 43. blessed God for putting such a thing ( viz. as the supporting the true Religion , by those stratagems , methods , and waies of violence & bloud , whereby Heathens support their Idolatrous worships ) into the heart of King Artaxerxes . Whereas it is evident from the very text of Scripture , which they cite ( viz. Ezra 7. 27. ) that the thing , which Ezra blessed God for putting into the heart of this King , was , precisely and particularly this , the beautifying of the house of the Lord which was at Jerusalem . As for that part of this Kings Edict , wherein he makes the transgression of his own Lawes , i. the dictates of his ow● will , equally punishable with the transgression of the Laws of God , v. 26. certainly this was never of Gods putting into his heart , nor did Ezra ever so judge ; nor ( consequently ) ever blesse God for it .

3. Nor have wee yet the compasse of the folly in this Answer . For it further argueth a confirmation , that waies of violence and bloud for the support of true Religion , are according to the light and Law of nature , from hence , because they have been used by Idolatrous Heathens , to maintaine their Idolatrie , and by Anti-Christian Papists to maintai●● their abominations . Because the WHOLE world ( as John saith ) lieth in wickednesse b b 1 Iohn 5. , is it an argument , that wickednesse , or to lie in wickednesse , is therefore according to the light or Law of nature ? Did it ever enter in the heart of an understanding or considering Sect. 44. man , to imagine , that those waies , or morall practices , wherein even the worst or vilest of men ( as Heathenish and Antichristian Idolaters are ) generally walke , are according to the light and Law of nature ? Certainly this saying , was rather spoken according to the light and Law of nature ; Recti argumentum est , pessimis displicere . i. That Sen. which displeaseth the worst , is like to be good . And if it be according to the light and Law of nature , to support Religion by methods and waies of outward violence and bloud , I desire to know , of what Religion this is asserted , whether of that which is true , or that which is Idolatrous and false . If of the former , then is it notoriously contrary to the light and Law of nature , to seek to destroy the true Religion by methods and waies of violence and bloud ; and consequently , the heathenish and Antichristian Idolaters , who attempted the destruction of the true Religion for the support of their own by such meanes , walked not according to , but directly against the light and Law of nature in so doing . And then this practise of theirs , is so farre from being any argument , that waies of violence and bloud for supporting Religion , are according to the Law and light of nature , that it argueth the contrary . If it be understood of the latter , viz. of an Idolatrous or false Religion , certainly no support of this by any means whatsoever , is according to the light or Law of nature ; in as much as these directly lead to the abhorring and detesting of all such Religions , not to the supporting of them in any kinde . Deare English soules , take heed of your Teachers ; especially when they plead for themselves , and their own Kingdome ; very seldome in these cases doe they speake words either of sobernesse or Truth .

Their seventh Argument or Syllogisme is not framed according Sect. 44. to the tenor of the Querie to which it pretends , and in this respect we may well wave their Answer given to it . Yet to let the world see how superficiall these men are in their divinit●e , wee shall animadvert a few things upon it .

First , they here affirme , that whoredome , adulterie , murther , theft , are the strong holds of Satan , mentioned 2 Cor. 10. 4. as well as heresies and errors . But how doe they prove this ? onely by the thread-bare argument of their own Authoritie ; which , both reason and Scripture ever and anon failing them , as being neither of them calculated for the meridian of their affaires , they are necessitated to use so frequently , that familiarity hath bred contempt . Certain I am , Sect. 44. that the best Expositors , and some of their best friends otherwise , leave them to themselves in that notion . Strong holds ( saith Calvin ) the Apostle calleth Counsells , and height lift up against God , of which he speaks afterward : but thus he calleth them properly and significantly . For his intent is to glory ( or boast ) that there is nothing so fortified in the world , but that he is able to throw down . As if he should say , I know how carnall men pride it with their swelling conceits , how presumptuously and securely they despise me , &c. a a Munitiones vocat confilia , & celsitudinem adversus Deum elatam de quibus po●tea loquitur : sed proprie & significauter it● app●llac . Vult enim gloriari nihil esse tam munitum in mund● , cui diruendo non sit p●r futurus ; acsi d●ceret : Scio equidem quam superbiant suis ampullis humines carnales , & quam fastuose ac secure me contemnant , &c. Calv. in 2 cor. 10. 4. . Musculus is of the same minde , about the same expression . Of what strong holds ( saith this Authour ) the Apostle speaketh , he presently declares , saying , casting down imaginations . Some translate the Greek word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , counsels ; but it properly soundeth , reasonings or ratiocinations . He meanes the counsells of humane reasoning , not sincere , but corrupt , in which especially Satan reignes amongst men . And then cites Chrysostomes Exposition , for the confirmation of his own . Chrysostome ( saith he ) expounds it of the pride of the Greeks , and the strength or power of their Sophismes , and Syllogismes with more to this purpose , b b De quibus autem munitionibus loquatur , evestigio subjungit dicers , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Vertunt autem , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , confilia : Vox ipsa so●a● , ratiocinationen . Intelligit de confiliis ratiocinationis humanae , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , sed corrupt● , in quibus potissimum Sa●an r●gna● inter homines . Chrysostomus expo●it , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 . Muscul . in 2 cor. 10. 4. .

Besides , whereas they most unworthily , and contrary to all reason , and without the least occasion given , insinuate , That he who will maintain from that Text , 2 Cor. 10. that none but properly spirituall weapons are to be used against the strong holds of sin ( there is not the least intimation of such a thing in the Querie ) he wholly denies all civill punishment , and all the exercise of the Magistrates sword against evill doers ; the cleare truth is , that themselves by numbring whoredomes , adulteries , murthers , thefts , &c. amongst the strong holds there spoken of , are the men that dash their foot against this stone . For , if spirituall weapons , be mighty through God , to cast down the strong holds here spoken of , and murthers , thefts , adulteries , &c. be some of these ; to what purpose is any civill punishment , or what necessity is there of any exercise of the Magistrates sword against evill doers ? when there is any one meanes appointed by God , which is MIGHTY through him , to effect Sect. 45. that which is necessary to be done , what necessity is there of any other , of any more meanes to be added hereunto for the effecting of it ? Is it agreeable to any rule of Scripture , or principle of reason , to multiply meanes for the bringing any thing to passe , when there is one meanes , not onely sufficient , but mighty , or potent also through God to effect it ? Certain I am , that it is none of Gods method so to doe . ▪ If there had been a law ( saith the Apostle ) that could have given life , surely righteousnesse should have been by the Law a a Gal. 3. 21. : implying , that if God had sufficiently provided for the justification , and salvation of his creature , one way , or by one meanes , he would never have added another , as a competitor with it . Upon this principle , that reasoning also of his stands , I doe not abrogate the Grace of God : For , if righteousnesse be by the Law , then Christ dyed in vain ▪ b b Gal 2. 21. ● . Clearely implying , that to assert a sufficiency ( much more a mightinesse , or potency ) in the Law for justification , plainly abrogates and makes void the grace of God in giving Christ to die for our justification . In like manner , they who grant , that spirituall weapons are mighty , through God , to cast down adulteries , ●●rthers , thefts , &c. abrogate the sword of the Civill Magistrate , in relation to the casting down of these and such like sins . Therefore , certainly the Gentlemen doe but beate the aire , in affirming , that whoredome , adultery , murther , theft , &c. are some of the strong holds mentioned , 2 Cor. 10. 4.

Secondly , the said Answer leaneth in the best of its strength , Sect. 45. upon this supposition ( or , assertion rather ) that the spreaders of errors and Heresies are certainly ranked in the Scriptures amongst those evill doers , against whom the Civill Magistrate is the Minister of God to execute wrath * * Rom. 13. . This ( I confesse ) is the most manlike argument or plea , which this generation of men , either are wont , or , indeed , able to produce , to colour over their bloody Tenet , for a necessity of civill compulsion , in matters of Conscience and Religion : yet how effeminate and weak it is , will cleerly appeare by these considerations .

First , evident it is , that the Apostle , Rom. 13. sets forth the duty , interest , and power of a Magistrate , simply , as a Magistrate , not as a Magistrate qualified in one kinde or other , least of all as qualified with the true knowledge of God , or with the knowledge Sect. 46. of the controversies and questions in Christian Religion . If such a thing as this shall be supposed , then must there be some appointed to examine and judge , who are lawfull Magistrates , ( i. e. endued with the true knowledge of God , &c ▪ ) and consequently may lawfully , as Ministers of God , execute wrath against them that do evill . And if so , who shall these examiners and judges be ? or according to what rules or directions shall they proceed in this important affaire ? But this ( I presume ) is so apparant , that we shall not need contend further for it .

Secondly , it is altogether inconsistent with the wisedome and goodnesse of God in the Government of the world , so much as to interesse , much more to lay a necessity upon , his Deputies , the civill Magistrates or Rulers hereof , to interpose with their power in such things , whereof , for the generality and farre the greatest part of them , he knew they would be not onely ignorant , but uncapable ; yea , and not onely they ( I mean the Magistrates themselves ) but even farre the greatest part of men also ; yea , even those men themselves , who he knew would pretend with as much height and confidence to a knowledge of them , as any others . And certaine it is , that matters of Errour and Heresie in Christian Religion , are of this nature ; at least a very great part of them . For who did ever pretend , challenge , or claime , a deeper insight into matters of Errour and Heresie in Christian Religion , a greater sufficiency or dexterity to judge and determine , what was Errour , what not , what was Heresie , what not , then the Papal Bishops and Clergy , in the day of their power , and especially the Pope himself ? And yet we know , and generally confesse , that al these were incompetent and insufficient judges in such matters as these , & that they did from time to time put darkenesse for light , and light for darknesse ; bitter for sweet , and sweet for bitter ; condemned Truth to death , instead of Error ; advancing Error instead of Truth .

Thirdly , If Magistrates , as such , be uncapable themselves of Sect. 46. discerning between Errour and Truth in Christian Religion , as put the case , between the Congregationall Government , and that of Presbytery , which is agreeable to the word of God , and which not , or whether both , or whether neither : to whom , or to what generation of men can they safely entrust their judgements and consciences in this case for regulation and direction , so as to run Sect. 46 no hazard of incurring the wrath of God , for smiting with the sword without cause ? If it be said , they must and may safely trust the godly , orthodox , and faithfull Ministers , amongst whom they live ;

I answer first , Put the case there be no such veine of Ministers as these , or however , none whom they can looke upon as such , within their territories ; what shift shall they then make for such an addresse ?

Secondly , If they themselves be uncapable ( which is the supposition now argued upon , and it hath been proved , that generally they are uncapable ) of discerning between Truth and errour in questions , and matters of doubtfull disputation in Christian Religion ; how shall they be able to know , or satisfy themselves , who are faithfull and orthodox , and who not ? He that cannot judge what is erour , and what is truth , cannot determine what men or Ministers are Orthodox , and what not .

Thirdly , In case the Ministers living under the jurisdiction of the Magistrate , ( th●se I mean who are reputed godly , faithfull , and orthodox ) shall be divided in judgement among themselves , and one part of them adjudge that for truth and orthodox doctrine , which the other shall condemne for errour and Heresie ; ( a case of daily occurrence ) under which of these shadows shall the Magistrate repose with peace and safety ? To say , that in this case he is bound to cleave unto the major vote or party amongst them , and to smite , where they shall say smite , is ( upon the matter ) either to say nothing , or else that which is extremely obnoxious . For first , what if they be equally divided ? in this case a major vote is but a castle in the aire . Secondly , In case they be not equally divided ; what if the judgement or conscience of the Magistrate shall incline to the lesser party , as conceiving their grounds and reasons to be of more pregnancy and weight , then the other , and cannot concurre or go along with these ? Thirdly , Take any society , coporation , or company of men of what capacity soever , under Heaven ; as well reason , as experience evinceth , that the major part of them are ever the weaker in judgement and understanding ; and that commonly it is found in greater meetings and conventions , that the elder serves the younger , I meane , that matters are carryed and concluded against the sense Sect. 46. of men of greatest abilities and worth , when there is any division of votes amongst them . Fourthly , and lastly , if the Magistrate be bound , in the case under consideration , to cleave either to the one party or the other , whether the lesser , or the greater , and to smite that with his sword , as errour or Heresie , which either of them adjudgeth for such : he stands bound likewise to punish and smite with the sword , that whole party of Ministers , as erroneous and Hereticall , whose judgement he rejecteth in the consultation ; though when he called them hereunto , he looked upon them as godly , orthodox , and faithfull . And if cases of this nature should frequently happen , I meane wherein the civill Magistrate shall have occasion to advise with his godly Ministers , for his information about errours , and Heresies , and these Ministers be divided in their judgements about them ; and the Magistrate be bound to punish errours and Heresies with the sword , which that interpretation of the Scripture in hand now opposed by us , imposeth upon him as a duty ; he should still , toties quoties , and from time to time , be bound in conscience to destroy or molest one party of the godly Ministers under him ; and so ere long must needs make a sad desolation in his territories of such men ; Therefore .

Fourthly , and lastly , when the Apostle saith concerning the Magistrates , that he is the Minister of God , a Revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill , &c. that indefinit expression , him that doth evill , is not to be taken or understood universally , for whosoever doth evill , after what manner , or in what kinde soever ; but with limitation , pro subjecta materia . 1. for the doer of such or of that kinde of evill , which appertaine● to the cognizance of the Magistrate , and whereof ordinary Magistrates , or Magistrates in generall , as well Heathen , as Christian , are competent judges , as all such evill is , which is manifestly such , and of a Politicall consideration , as that which is contrary to the light and law of nature , as Whoredome , Adultery , Murder , Theft , Injustice , Sedition , Treason , &c. that this is the true interpretation and meaning of this Scripture , is further confirmed .

First , by the like expressions of frequent occurrence in the Sect. 47. Scriptures , viz. where indefinit , yea , and sometimes universall , expressions , are used to signifie , not a simple or absolute , but a relative Sect. 48. or restrained universalitie of things , i. e. either a vniversality of such things , which are particularly treated of in those places , where these expressions are found ; or of such , whose natures or conditions are reasonably capable of those things , which either are attributed to them , or injoyned concerning them , in such expressions . As for example , God himself saith , Exod. 12. 48. that no uncircumcised person should eat of the passeover ; Yet this generall or universall expression , is not to be extended unto women of the daughters of Abraham , as if they were restrained hereby from eating the Passeover , because they are persons uncircumcised ; the reason is , because the note or universality , NO , in the prohibition , NO uncircumcised person shall eat , &c. imports , not an absolute , but onely a relative universality , viz. of all that kinde of uncircumcised persons , which the verse speakes of , which are males ; who also are the onely persons capable of circumcision . So when the Apostle commanded the Thessalonians , that if any would not worke , he should not eat ; * * 2 Thess. 3. 10. his meaning was , not to forbid nourishment or food to be given , either to sicke or lunatique persons , or to young children , or to any person whatsoever uncapable of working ; but onely unto those , who changed an ability of working , into idlenesse , and stubbornly refused to labour in a calling . So in the Scripture in hand , when he saith indefinitly , that Rulers are not a terrour to good workes , but to evill ; the word Rulers , doth not signifie ALL Rulers whatsoever , but onely such , who rule according to the will of God : for otherwise , we know there are many Rulers , who act contrary to this rule or assertion of the Apostle , and are a Terrour , not to evill workes , but to good . In like manner , when the Apostle saith , that the Magistrate is the Minister of God , to execute wrath upon ( or against ) him that doth evill ; by him that doth evill , it is no way necessary that he should mean every man without exception , who doth that which is evill in one kind or other , but onely every man that doth any such evill , which is of a politicall cognizance , and proper for a Magistrate , as a Magistrate , to punish .

Secondly , if by him that doth evill , in this Scripture were Sect. 48. meant , every man without exception that doth any kinde of evill ; then should the Magistrate be the Minister of God , and consequently be injoyned by him by way of duty , to punish men for conceiving Sect. 49. evill thoughts , for committing adultery in the heart , for coveting that which is another mans , without doing any thing outwardly which is evill , or injurious to him , &c. For whosoever doth any of these things , most certainely doth that which is evill : but if we shall suppose , that the Magistrate stands bound by his office to execute wrath , upon such evill doers as these , we had need make them Gods indeed , and give them knowledge of the hearts of men , or else we shall make them little better then devills , by bringing the guilt of sin , and of unfaithfulnesse in their places upon their heads , without end .

Thirdly , If God should require of the Magistrate to execute wrath upon spreaders of errors and heresies as evill doers , he should be an hard Master indeed , and think to gather , where hee hath not strewed , and to reap , where he hath not sown * * Mat. 25. 24. . For doubtlesse , he neither hath given , nor doth give any sufficiency of means to discern between Heresie and sound Doctrine , between Error and Truth , ( at least in many points in Christian Religion ) to one Magistrate of an hundred ; I might ( I beleeve ) keep within the compasse of Truth , and say , of a thousand . Especially , if wee shall look upon those Magistrates which were then in being in the world , when this Scripture was written ; and upon occasion of whose power to execute wrath upon him that doth evill , this admonition was given by the Apostle unto the Romans , it will clearely bee found , that they generally were so farre from being able to judge what was Error and Heresie , what Truth and Orthodox , in Christian Religion , that they judged this Religion it selfe , to be the grand Error and Heresie of the world .

Fourthly , That by him that doth evill ( in the clause under debate ) Sect. 49. the Apostle doth not mean , spreaders of Errors or Heresies in Christian Religion , but onely the actours of such impieties , which were known to be such , by the heathen Magistrates , who then bare rule over them , is evident from the context it self , and the import of the same expression in the former part of the same verse , which is this . For he ( the Magistrate ) is the Minister of God to thee for thy good . But if thou shalt DOE THAT WHICH IS EVILL , be afraid : for hee beareth not the sword in vain . By doing that which is evill in this passage , cannot be meant , the spreading of Errors or Heresies ; because they had not Sect. 50. so much reason of being afraid of the Magistrate here spoken of , for spreading of these , as for publishing or preaching the most Orthodox Truths of Christianity . They might without any danger at all from the Magistrate here spoken of , have published and taught , that the Idols which the Romans worshipped , were true Gods ; that the worship of Christians , that Jesus Christ was a deceiver , and not the Son of God , with twenty such abominable errors and blasphemies more . They had ten times more cause to bee afraid of the powers that now were , for publishing the most Orthodox Truths , as that there is but one God , that the Gods of the Romans were either dumb Idols , or speaking Devils ; that Jesus Christ is the naturall Son of God , and onely Saviour of the world , &c. Therefore , by that evill , upon the doing of which they had cause to be afraid of the Roman powers or Magistracy , the Apostle onely meanes such wicked acts or practices , which they were apt to punish and take vengeance on , as apprehending them prejudiciall or destructive to the peace , safety , or wellfare of their state ; and not any publishing or spreading of errors or heresies , of the evill whereof they were wholly uncapable .

Fifthly , That doing of evill , against which the Magistrate here Sect. 50. spoken of , is the Minister of God to execute wrath , is opposed unto that subjection to the higher powers , ( injoyned in the first verse ) and of the same consideration with the resisting of these powers , so sharply reproved and threatned , ver. 2. From whence it clearly appeares , that by it is onely meant the doing of such evill , which was prohibited by the Roman Laws and Edicts * * Quod bonum est facito , hoc est , legibus obtemperato . Contrarium est , si seceris malum , id est , legibus fueris inobediens a●t refractari●s , Par. ad Rom. 13. 4. . For no man can be said , either to refuse subjection unto , or to resist the powers , under which he lives , who lives in an orderly subjection and obedience unto all their Laws . Now certain it is , that neither the Roman Emperour or Senate in these dayes , had enacted any law against the publishing of Errors or Heresies , in Christian Religion . Therefore the publishing of these could be no branch or part of that evill , by the doing whereof the Roman powers should have been resisted in their Laws .

Sixtly , and lastly , That doing of evill , against which the Magistrate is said to be the Minister of God to execute wrath , ver. 4. is directly opposed to that doing of good , spoken of v. 3. unto which Sect. 51. there is a promise made of receiving praise from the Magistrate . * 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ma●●● , oppouitur 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , bono morali , de quo ver. 3. Idem . Ibid. Doe that which is good , and thou shalt have praise of the sam● . Now certainly that doing of good , for which the Apostle undertakes that they shall have praise from the Roman Magistrate , was not the preaching or publishing of the great and orthodox truths of Christian Religion , of the goodnesse of which service they were wholy insensible , yea , rather enemies unto it ( as hath been said ) therefore , by that doing of evill , which is opposite hereunto , cannot be meant the spreading of Errors and Heresies ; but onely the perpetration of such morall impieties , of the evill whereof to their state and well-fare , they were fully sensible . Thus we have sufficiently , and by the clearest evidence of the Scriptures themselves , vindicated the Scripture-passage in hand , from that hand of violence , which goeth about to force it upon a bloudy service ; yea , and to draw the Magistrate by it into a dangerous ingagement , ( far above his abilities and strength ) onely to promote the secular designes of Ecclesiasticall men . O England , England , make much of thy Scriptures , but take heed of the glosses of thy Teachers . And when they shall say unto thee , Lo here is our Presbytery , and lo it is there , beleeve them not : for they shall shew great signes and wonders of zeale for Reformation , and building ( as they call it ) the house of God , and shall deceive many . Neither of those two pi●lars , neither the ancient law of God for putting false Prophets , Idolaters , and Blasphemers to death , nor the Magistrates being the Minister of God to execute wrath upon him that doth evill , were ever hewne by God to support that fabricke of Church-Government , which these men labor in the very fire to build upon them . And yet these are their Gods : and these being taken from them , they may lament with Micah , and say , what have we more . * * Jud. 18. 24.

In their Answer to their ninth Argument , they sit down qui●● Sect. 51. besides the cushion . The major in this syllogisme , is this : They who inflict death upon men for maintaining a doctrine contrary to their interprecation of Scripture , had need be as infallible , at least as touching the sense of that Scripture , as God himselfe ; or else they do what is not lawfull for them to do . Their answer is , This major is fals● , because it is blasphem●●● . It is blasphemo●● to assert ●r suppose , that any man , in any thing which he knowes never so certainly , is as infallible as Sect. 51. God himselfe . This Answer of these men , is truly propheticall ; and if the people of England were but capable of the spirit that breaths in it , they might cleerly foresee , what they meane to doe with an Ordinance of Parliament to punish Errour , Heresie , and Blasphemy , if they could procure it , together with the managing and interpretation of it , to be put in their hands , ( whereof their hopes are pregnant if ever such an Ordinance shall be established ) viz. to accuse , molest , crush , whom they please , by making Errour , Heresie , Blasphemy ▪ of what saying , or expressions of theirs they please , though never so innocent and sound ( in the genuine and true import of them , ) if there be but a word that is capable of wresting , or abuse from their hand . Was such an assertion , especially such a supposition , as this ▪ that a man in something which he knowes , may be a● infallible a● God himselfe , ever voted Blasphemy , untill now ? nay , was there ever any supposition , or bare intimation whatsoever , called Blasphemy untill now ? at least any such supposition or intimation , which is onely collected from the words of another , and not acknowledged or owned , as a lawfull inference , by the speaker himselfe ? But suppose the Syllogisme , had not supposed , but in terminis asserted , that a man may in some particular of his knowledge , ●e a● infallible as God himselfe ; by what law either of reason or Religion , will this be evicted of Blasphemy ? Certain I am , that there is no communication of any of the incommunicable attributes of God in it , nor any thing asserted to the creature , which is onely vested in God ▪ no , nor any any thing tending in the least to the dishonour or disparagement of the divine nature or being . And yet ( by the way ) every thing tending to the dishonour of God , is not presently Blasphemy , except these Great masters can prove , that every sin whatsoever , is Blasphemy . But first , infallibilty in God in respect of every respective particularity of his knowledge , is no incommunicable attribute of his , in any other sense then as all his attributes whatsoever are incommunicable : for many things which are infallibly knowne unto God , are likewise infallibly known unto men . Secondly , Though the infallibility which is in God , be in respect of every particular of his knowledge , infinite , as whatsoever is in God , is God himselfe , and so infinite ; and in this sense or consideration , no creature can be truly said to be as infallible Sect. 51. as God ▪ yet as the Divine infallibility imports a certainty , and that upon unerring-grounds , that things are so and so indeed , as God apprehendeth them to be ; men themselves , in respect of some particulars of their knowledge , may truly be said to be as infallible as God himselfe , i. e. to know certainly upon unerring-grounds , or grounds that cannot deceive them , that things are so , as they conceive of them , or apprehend them to be . And if the syllogisme , whose Answer is now under canvasse , be framed to the minde , or sense of the expression in the Querie , then the syllogisme Ego de caepis interrog● , et tu respondes de alliis . speakes of onyons , and the Answer answereth concerning leekes . But between the onyons and the leeks , the root of this jealousie groweth ranke , that there is like to be old sharking , and straining , wresting , and wringing ▪ tentering , and tormenting , of the words and expressions of godly men , to make Errour , Heresie , and Blasphemy of them , and so to bring them under the dint of the Magistrates sword , when once rhe Ordinance mentioned , shall be established , and the construction of it entrusted in Ecclesiasticke-hands . For ( as Christ long since said to the daughters of Jerusalem , who wept for him ) if they doe these things to a green tree , what shall ●e ●one to the drye ? If these men can make the ●ull-rush of Blasphemy to grow without the mire of an obnoxious expression , what will they doe in case words shall be spoken , whose interpretation will require some charity to make them innocent ? As for the rest of this Answer , I must cleerly professe ( though it may be to mine own disparagement ) that I do not well understand it ; that gentle aire of sense which breaths from it in the face of my understanding , rather whispers an inconsistence , then any good agreement between the parts of it . It supposeth , that a man is neither to yeeld himselfe to suffer , or to cast away his owne life without certaine knowledge of Gods truth and will in the thing , ( d● quo tamen totus dubito ) nor yet to take away another mans life in a judiciall way ( quod potius cred● ) and ye● supposeth withall , that warres may be lawfull on their part , who fighting under any Prince or State , cannot in any degree be said to know infallibly , either the right of the cause they fight for , or the guilt of all those they fight against and slay . In which crosse passages , the Authors first s●ppose ( without any proofe at all ) a plurality of ●●gre●s in an infallibility of knowledge : and yet suppose also ( with a greater defiance unto Sect. 52 reason , of the two ) that a CERTAINTY of knowledge is none of these degrees . I feare the whole fabrique of their Doctrine concerning Church-government , taken together , is but a supposition .

In their Answer to their tenth Argument , first , they prove that Sect. 52. Luther maintained no errour about free will or election , by the testimony or witnesse of his book De servo arbitrio . But first , they produce no testimony from this booke of any such import ; viz. wherin the author affirmeth , that he never maintained any error concerning these points . Secondly , If they had , or yet should produce such a testimony , how incompetent a proof would it be of their assertion ? For who is there , though of the greatest integrity and parts withall , that judgeth his owne judgement to be erroneous , in what points soever , how erroneous soever it be ? Thirdly ▪ it is very possible , that he that writes a book intituled De serve arbitrio , may , even in this book it selfe , maintain● an errour about free-will ; or ▪ if not in this , yet in some other . Fourthly , Augustins booke of Retractions , doth not prove that he never held or maintained those opinions which he there condemnes , but the contrary . So though it should be granted that Luther in his book De serv● arbitrio , rejects every opinion that is erroneously held about free-will , yet it no wayes followes from hence , that ●e never maintained a●y errour about it ; least of all doth it follow , that he never maintained any errour about election . But these mens dictates , though never so loose , must passe for demonstrations . Fifthly , Luther himselfe , who saw one edition ( if not more ) of this book De serv● arbitrio , before he dyed , did not acknowledge it with any great confidence , as intirely his . For in an Epistle written to his friend Capit● , in the yeare 1537 he professeth , nullum ●e agn●scere justum suum librum , nisi FORTE de serv● arbitrio , et Catechismum * * Sculet An●al . Evang. Dec 2. i● Anno , 1526. . Sixtly ▪ It was the judgement and assertion of some , and is at this day the constant asseveration of many of Luthers followers , that he retracted the booke now in question before his death . A● this day ( saith Scultetus ) almost all the Vbiquitaries are of this opinion , that Luther revoked his booke De servo arbitrio * * H●die omnes ●●re Ubiquitari● in illa sententia sunt Lutherum revocasse servum suum Arbitrium S●nl●●t . ●bi supra . . Seventhly , The said Author acknowledgeth , that Philip Melancthon , who was Luthers great friend and companion , in his latter writings wav'd the opinion maintained in the book De servo Arbitrio , and joyned Sect. 53. with Erasmus in his judgment , for the freedom of the will . Therfore the improbability that Luther himselfe also should have now declin'd it , is not so great . Lastly , the generality of our late Protestant writers , who in their judgements generally are more Calvins then Luthers , doe generally ▪ upon occasion , charge the Lutherans , or followers of Luther , with unsound opinions , about Free-will and Election . So that it is every wayes probable , ( at least ) that Luther himself was peccant , ( as peccancy in this kind is now called ) in his judgement about these points . But be it either so , or otherwise , the witnesse of his said book De Servo arbitrio , is but a slim proofe , that it was not so . But we must ( I see ) be content with hay and stubble , who have neither silver nor gold to build with .

Secondly , Whereas the Query supposeth , the erroneous opinion Sect. 53. of Consubstantiation to be farre more grosse and dangerous then many particulariz●d in the Ordinance ; these Gentlemen Answer , That Luther● error of Consubstantiation , is neither so grosse , nor so dangerous , as any of the opinions threatned by the Ordinance with death .

Doe not these men deserve , and that ex abundanti , their places in the Assembly ▪ for this Seraphicall strain ? The Queree querieth of them , wh●ther Luther d●served either imprisonment , or death , for his opinion about Consubstantiation ; To this they Answer , that this error is not so grosse or dangerous , as any by the Ordinance threatned with death .

So then , by the way , they grant , that the Civill Magistrate , under whom Luther lived , was defective in his duty towards God , that he did not put his great Embassadour and most faithfull servant Luther into prison , and there keep him fast from doing the devill any more harme all his dayes . But with what face of sense , reason , learning or Religion , can these men affirme , that The Error of Consubstantiation is neither so grosse , or so dangerous , as any of the opinions threatned by the Ordinance with death ? Certainly , in point of grossenesse , there is scarse any , if any at all , of these opinions from the first to the last of them , to be compared therewith . The error of Consubstantiation is apparently so grosse , that the gross●st of the outward senses themselves ( I meane that of touching ) is able to discover and confute it . Is the error of God his not being one in three persons , or , that the Holy Ghost ▪ is not God , Sect. 54. with severall others threatned by the Ordinance with death , are these , I say , errors of so terrene a calculation , or so obnoxious unto a redargution by the senses ? And for matter of danger , I would gladly learn from these Grandees , what difference there is , between holding the Error of Consubstantiation , and , that Christ is not ascended into Heaven bodily , ( which latter is one of the opinions threatned by the Ordinance with death ? ) But

Thirdly , and lastly , this Answer goeth out in this snuffe . The Sect. 54. opinions which he and others held which were erroneous , were in the beginning of the Reformation , when thre had not been such means of conviction , nor such a cleering or setling of Truth , as there is amongst us , aspecially in the fundamentall Doctrines , &c. But

First , why were there not such meanes of conviction in the beginning of the Reformation , as there is now amongst us ? Certain , I am , that there was as much learning , and as much labour , and as much conscience and faithfullnesse , in and about the beginning of Reformation , in very many of those persons whom God interessed in this honourable service , as there is amongst us . Luther , Melancthon , Calvin , Zuinglius , P. Martyr , Bucer , Occolampadius ( with many more names of like note with these ) have not their Superiours in any of these now amongst us . I wish they had their equalls . There is no more comparison , for stature in learning , and in all manner of worth , between young Luther * * Mr. Edwards Gang. 3. par. p. 77. printeth a passage of a letter , sent by a godly Minister ( as he useth to call all those , that will honor or rather flatter him ) wherein this minister affirmeth , that he spake prophetically , that usually called him ( the said mr. Edw. ) in Cambridge , ●●●g LVTHER . , and old , then is between the thistle in Lebanon , and the Cedar in Lebanon . And for countenance from heaven , the Histories of those times make it evident , that the Worthies mentioned , had another manner of a Divine presence and assistance with them , then all the cleerers or setlers of Truth ( so called ) now amongst us , can with any colour or face of Truth pretend .

Secondly , I shall write my self a debtor of a very high favour unto these Gentlemen , if they will please to informe me , what cleering or setling of Truth there is now amongst us , either in fundamentall Doctrines of Religion , or in any other , above what the primitive times of the late Reformation injoyed . If by setling of Truth , they mean suppressing of Truth , by casting the diabolicall aspersions of Socinianisme , Arminianisme , Popery , Antinomianisme , &c. * * Mr. Edw. Gan. 3 par. pag. 114. upon it , that so it may stand still , and rest where it is , and propagate no further , well may they glory ( or indeed be Sect. 54. ashamed ) of that setling of Truth now amongst us . But if by setling of Truth , they mean , a building , setling , or holding of it forth , upon substantiall , cleere , and demonstrative grounds , what meanes the continuall enterfe●rings and clashings of our Presbyterian Pulpits themselves , one against another ? yea , how comes it to passe , that so seldome can any one Sermon be heard out of their pulpits , but quarrels with it self ? What meane the numerous Anti-Votes in the Assembly it self , and some of these proceeding from persons of the most eminent worth amongst them , if not against all , or the greater part , yet against some of the main and most materiall Doctrines concluded there ? what mean the crosse-lines and contradictions of that frequent occurrence in bookes lately printed ; and these not onely in , and about the point of Presbytery , between Presbyterians themselves , and particularly between Mr. Rutherford , and Mr. Edwards , ( whereof instance might be given in sundry particulars ) but in Doctrines also of a farre more fundamentall consequence , as about the power of man in his unregenerate , yea , and in his regenerate condition too , about the nature of Justifying Faith , yea , about Justification it selfe ( then which I know no Doctrine more fundamentall ) concerning which notwithstanding , it is a very rate thing to finde any two , either of our late Writers , or our present Preachers , uniforme in their judgements ; yea , or to finde any one of either of these , intirely consistent with himself ?

Severall months since I heard a Parliament man of eminent worth and note , reckon up six or seven severall Sects or subdivisions amongst the Presbyterians themselves ; since which time I make little question , but that their Sects have multiplyed . So that whereas my Anti-Querists talke of so much cleering and setling of truth amongst us , above the happinesse of the first times of Reformation in this behalfe ; the truth is , that that Truth they speak of , even in her maine and most fundamentall branches , was never more disturbed , perplexed , intricated , obscured , made more inaccessible to the understandings , capacities , and consciences of ordinary men , from the beginning of the Reformation they speake of , then it is at this day amongst us . O England , England , if thou dependest upon thy Teachers for truth , even in the greatest points of that Religion which thou professest , thou must fish for it in Sect. 55. their troubled waters .

In their eleventh Answer , having built upon the rubbish of the Sect. 55. foundations lately demolished , and told us , First , that the doctrine of the Lords day was not so cleared , as it is now , ( I wonder by whom , or by what light of demonstration ) Secondly , that even now it is not so cleare in any other Churches , as it is here in England , ( I see the morall of the fable verified ; if a man be the painter , the Lyon shall be made to couch at his feet ) Thirdly , That the truth of it is not setled in other Kingdomes or States , as it is amongst us ( it seems they make a difference between cleering , and setling : and so I beleeve , that in their sense , there is a very great difference indeed ; the former being Gods way , the latter , mens ) In the fourth place they adde ; it may justly be beleeved , that if he ( Calvin ) were now alive in this Kingdome , he ▪ would not publish or maintaine any thing contrary to the observation of the Lords day , as it is enjoyned by the Lawes and Ordinances of this Realm . But may not the justnesse of these mens beliefe in this case , be justly questioned ? Is it a just or righteous thing to beleeve , or to suppose , that a man of worth , of able parts , of eminent learning , of a composed judgement , of a tender conscience , would baulk with God and his own soule , in shunning to declare , what upon mature studie , upon diligent and faithfull inquirie , he judgeth to be the counsell or will of God , thorough feare of an Ordinance or Law in a civill State ? I beleeve if Calvin were now alive , whether in this Kingdome , or in any other , he would conne these Gentlemen small thankes for such a commendation .

The dregs setled in the bottome of this Answer , are these : can it be lesse then a wilfull slaunder , and malicious purpose of rendring the Ordinance odious , to name death as a punishment for maintaining any thing against the Ordinances and Lawes about the Lords day , &c. But so this Querist deales in other of his Queries , &c. But let charity , or reason , or common sense , or who yee will , judge , whether it be lesse then a wilfull slaunder , and malicious purpose of rendering the Querist odious , without a cause , to charge him with naming death as a punishment for maintaining any thing against the Ordinances and Laws , about the Lords day ? To Queree , whether Calvin deserved either imprisonment , or death , for teaching and maintaining , &c. ( which is the tenour of the Queree ) is this to charge Sect. 56. the Ordinance with threatning death as a punishment for maintaining any thing about the Lords day , against the Ordinances and Laws ? If not , how can it render the Ordinance odious , except ( haply ) it be either in the jealous consciences of such men , who are under some regret , and secret counterworkings of conscience through feare , lest the Ordinance , though pleasing to them , that is , to their flesh , should yet be odious indeed in the sight of God , or else in the over-jealous conceit of those , whose chiefe hopes and comforts on earth are bound up in the honour and successe of the Ordinance ; and who lye under the bondage of this feare , that if the Ordinance should prove odious in the eyes of men , themselves should suffer and beare the same burthen with it . To say that Nicholas or Matthew , or any other person , is either homo , or BRVTVM ; is it any wayes to name or intimate , that brutu●s , is either the genus , or species of either ? But when mens mindes are set to doe unworthily , they become uncapable of greater differences , then are between conjunctive and dis-junctive particles , though there be no such affinity or likenesse between these , which need incumber any sober mans judgement , in or about their dijudication . But Gangraena , and her Paramour hath justified all the sons of ▪ Presbytery besides , in all their slanders , calumnies , false aspersions , malicious imputations , and reports ; they that are malicious , are not malicious , in comparison of him that super-abounds in malice . Omnis Caesarea cedat labor Amphitheatro : Vnu●● pro cunct is fama loquatur opus . Let all mens malice give Gangraena place : Let Fame , instead of all , this one piece grace .

In their Answer to their twelfth Argument , if they meane as Sect. 56. they say , they make some part of atonement for their delinquency against the Queries hitherto . For here they grant , that no man is punishable for his meere mistake , whatever his opinion be : but for being so pertinacious in his mistake in matters of great consequence , as that he will not forbeare to publish his mistakes to the infection of others , and the mischiefe of their soules , and to the ruine , or at least miserable Sect. 57. disturbance of the Church of God .

I freely acknowledge that whosoever , out of pertinacy in his mistake , not onely in matters of greater consequence , but even of lesser , will not forbeare to publish his mistakes , to the infection of others , &c. i. e. with a desire or intention to infect , and mischiefe the soules of others , &c. deserves severely to be punished ; nor shall I ever plead mercy for such a man . If the Ordinance had explained it self after any such manner as this , I ( I presume with many others ) should have been satisfied in it , without any more adoe ; and not have needed to crave satisfaction about it , as now wee have done . But in case any man shall really and conscientiously judge that opinion of his , which others call a mistake , and perhaps is so indeed , to be a truth of God ; and shall withall really judge , that he is bound in conscience to hold forth such an opinion as being in his judgement and conscience the undoubted truth of God ; and withall necessary to be published and made known unto men , for their spirituall benefit and good ; in case ( I say ) the publishing of his opinion or mistake , upon such termes as these , shall prove the infection of others , or inconvenience , or ( if you will ) mischiefe the soules of others , &c. I have no ground either in Reason , or Religion , to judge this man worthy , either death or bands . Nay , if to publish such mistakes , and that even with pertinacy ▪ which tend to the infection of others , and mischiefe of soules , &c. were a matter worthy either death , or bands , I have sufficient grounds both in Reason and Religion , to judge and think , that very many Ministers of the Anti-Independent interest , yea , many of very eminent repute amongst them , would upon due examination and triall , be found in the condemnation .

The strength of their Answer to their thirteenth Argument , Sect. 57. leanes upon this staffe : That the open and publique profession of errors , is more pernicious , then the practise of sins in a like kinde and degree : they instance , To teach there is no Christ , is more dangerous ( they say ) then to live as if there were no Christ , and yet make a profession of him . Well , but my judgement ( and the judgements I beleeve of many more ) and this Doctrine , are at oddes . But these men attempt a reconciliation by the mediation of this reason , for the proofe of their Doctrine . The one ( they mean , the publique profession of errours ) justifieth what it doth , as lawfull , under pretended Sect. 57. grounds of truth : The other practiseth , and yet POSSIBLY not so impudently as to justifie his own practise : But

First , may not a man as possibly , publiquely professe an error , otherwise then under pretended grounds of Truth , as practise , or commit sin , without a justification of what he practiseth ? Certainely , he that practiseth a sin , hath the same necessity lying upon him to justifie what he doth ; which he , who publiquely professeth an error , hath to justifie this practise of his . Nor can I understand , why , or upon what ground , our Anti-Querists should make any such opposition , between a professing of errour , and practising of sinne . Is it their sense , that a publike profession of error , is no practising of sin ?

Secondly , when they say , by way of opposition to him that publiquely professeth an errour , that he that practiseth sinne , may yet possibly doe it not so impudently as to justify his owne practise ; do they not plainly suppose , first , that he that practiseth sinne , may practise it upon such tearms , viz. so , as to justify his practise ( which supposition of theirs , I confesse , is attested for truth , by daily examples of Practitioners in this kind ) and secondly , that when men doe thus practise , the practise of sinne is every-whit as pernicious , as the publique professing of an errour . And if so , doth not the reason which they bring to plead the cause of their assertion , prevaricate with it ; and set up that which is contradictory to it , in its stead . But this is no news , amongst those , who think themselves too good to subject unto the truth . But

Thirdly , the question is not , which of the two , a publique profession of errour , or the practice of sin in a like kinde , &c. be more pernicious ; but which of them is more punishable , which deserves the greater punishment ? For in many cases , practices or actions that are more pernicious , i. e. more prejudiciall and hurtfull unto others , may deserve lesse punishment , then some others which are lesse hurtfull . The fact of a mad man , who in the heat of his distemper shall fall foule upon a man , and dangerously wound him , is more hurtfull unto him , then the fact of him that shall fairly take his purse upon the high-way , or cheat him of a parcell of his money . But either of these latter facts is more punishable then the former . Many instances , more of like consideration might be added . Therefore ,

Fourthly and lastly , as to the assertion or conclusion it selfe ; Sect. 58 that the publique profession of errour , is more pernicious then the practice of sinne , &c. ( if by pernicious , the assertors mean , punishable ; which they must mean , if they speake any thing to the purpose ) the truth , or errour of the comparison , will be cleerly tried by this touch-stone . If the open and publique profession of errour , hath first more of the will in it , be more voluntary : Secondly , if it be more against the light , and law of nature ; and then , Thirdly , and lastly , if it be more pernicious ( as they speake ) or mischievous unto men , then the practice of sinne in a like kinde and degree ; then have these men judged righteously between them ; the publique profession of errour is more punishable , then the practice of sinne , &c. But if all things be found contrary between them , and the practice of sin in a like kind or degree , be first more voluntary ; & secondly more repugnant to the light and law of nature ; and Thirdly , of an equally , or a more , pernicious and dangerous consequence , then the publique profession , or holding forth of an errour ; then have these men ( it is much to be feared ) taken a bribe , which hath blinded their eyes , and caused them to stumble in judgement . Now concerning the two former , there is little question to be made , but that they are more ranke in such a practicing of sinne , as they put in the comparison , as ( for example ) in living as if there were no Christ , then in professing an error , as , viz. that there is no Christ . For first , that which is done contrary to that knowledge which a man hath , of what he ought to doe , cannot reasonably be thought , but to have more of the will in it , then what is done out of ignorance , or with a concurrence of the judgement of the doer . Now men may professe that there is no Christ , with a perfect concurrence of their judgement : for they may verily thinke that there is no such person , as many thousands in the world doe : ( yea , it can hardly be supposed with any good consistence in reason , that any man ever did , or will professe that there is no Christ , who doth not really and inwardly judge so ) but they cannot practice or live in Adultery , Murther , Theft , Oppression , Deceit , &c. ( which is to live as if there were no Christ ) but they must needs oppose their judgements , and consciences , with the strength of their wills . Secondly , the sinnes mentioned ▪ Adultery , Theft , &c. are cleerly ▪ and at first sight against the light and law of nature ; but the deniall of the being of such a person as Christ , who is both God and Sect. 58. man , is not contrary to any law or principle in nature ; at least to none , that is cleerly such . Thirdly and lastly , for the degree of danger , or perniciousnesse in either ; ( though the punishablenesse of a practice is not , as hath been said , so much to be measured by this ) I conceive the practice of the sinns , to be equally pernicious ( at least ) with the profession of the errour . The degree of perniciousnesse in a practice , is to be judged by these two things : first , by the degree of the evill , which it is like to produce , or possibly may produce . Secondly , by the degree of the likelyhood in it to produce this evill . That which possibly may occasion or produce a greater evill then another , is not necessarily the more pernicious ; except there be a proportionable likelyhood that it will produce it . Nor is that necessarily the more pernicious , which is the more likely to occasion or produce evill ; unlesse the degree of the evill , which it is likely to occasion , be thereafter . But when the evill or mischiefe which two severall practices possibly may or are likely to produce , is one and the same ; then that is cleerly the more pernicious , which is the more likely to produce this evill . First then it is cleer , that to live as if there were no Christ , may very possibly occasion men to thinke , that indeed there is no Christ , as well as to professe in words , that there is no Christ . So that in respect of the evill ( at least in that particular , which is now in consideration ) which both the one and the other may produce ; there is no difference between the two practices . If then there be as great a likelyhood , that to live as if there were no Christ , ( as viz. in Adultery , Theft , Deceit , &c. ) will produce the evill mentioned , as to professe in words , that there is no Christ ; then is the former every-whit as pernicious , as the latter . The degree of a likelyhood to produce evill ( in that kinde we speake of ) is to be estimated by some such rule as this ; that which is as apt or likely to corrupt the mindes or judgements of men , with the evill of the errour , hath the same likelyhood in it to produce the evill : and that which hath the greater aptnesse in this kinde , hath the greater likel●hood . Now that method or meanes of corrupting the mindes of men with errours , which is more plausible and tempting , and more complying with the flesh , is more apt and likely to produce the evill , then another , which is lesse plausible and tempting in this kinde . If so , then for men to live as if there were Sect. 59. no Christ , is more pernicious , and likely to mischiefe the soules of others , then to say , or professe in Words that there is no Christ . For first , examples , are more insinuating , and tempting , and apt to gaine upon men , then doctrines , or bare assertions , or arguings of things are , Peter speakes of some husbands , who may be won by the conversation of the wives , when they cannot be gained by the word * * 1 Pet. 3. 1. . And if examples on the right hand be more operative and perswasive in this kinde , then doctrines of the same kinde ; certainly examples on the left hand , are not behinde . He spake both reason and experience , who said : Tardiùs irritant animos demissa per aurem , Horat. Quàm quae sunt oculis subjecta fidelibus — What by the eare is let into the minde , Ingageth little ; but it soon inclines By what the eye presenteth —

Secondly , this great errour , that there is no Christ , being presented Sect. 59. and recommended to the sensuall hearts of men for a truth , with those sensuall accommodations of present pleasures and profites ( as it is in the example of Adultery , Drunkennesse , Deceit , &c. ) comes upon tearms of more advantage to gaine entertainment with men , then when it comes onely in a sound of words , or in the drie notion of a doctrine . Yea , the truth is , that the great errour we speake of , that there is no Christ , would be of little , or no accommodation to the flesh ( and consequently there would be no great danger of its infection ) did it not contribute towards that peaceable liberty for the practise of sinne ▪ which the flesh or sensuall part of men so ardently wisheth and desireth . Therefore when it commeth unto the soule visibly attended and accompanied with that retinue of carnall gratifications , which it in part as well begetteth , as maintaineth ; the very sight and beholding of these , pleads , and procures acceptation for it , in the eyes of the carnall judgements , and fleshly mindes of men , and awakens and invites the foolish heart to intertaine it . Thus we see how in-Orthodox these Anti-Congregationall zealots are , in the main pillar of that Answer which now we oppose , Sect. 60. being ( as hath been said ) this ; That the open and publique profession of errors , is more pernicious , then the practise of sins in a like kinde and degr●e . O England , who hath bewitched these , and many others of thy Teachers , that they should so seldome see , or at least , speak the Truth , as they doe ! But

Secondly , because in the sequell of this Answer , they strike againe at that dis-junctive expression in the Queries , either imprisonment or death , as very injurious to the Ordinance , when the opinion queried about , is by the Ordinance onely threatned with imprisonment ; and Gangrena her self ; who is loath to be out at any game of frowardnesse or folly , is partaker with them of this un clerk-like , ( yea , unmanlike ) exception ; * * Gang. 3. par. besides , what hath been already said for the full justification of it with men , who have no soft places in their heads , nor hard in their hearts ; I here adde , that howsoever — Lucis tam dira cupido Virgil. ( as the Poets expression is ) i. e. such an uncouth or dismall desire of life , may possibly inthrall or bewitch Gangrena , and her lovers , that a prison above ground , and a prison under ground , may seem very un-synonomous , and as farre distant one from the other , as the East is from the West ; yet to ingenuous and free-spirited men , there is no such great difference between them . Nay , unto many dispositions , yea , unto all men of solid understanding , present imprisonment in the chambers of death is many wayes more desirable , then perpetuall imprisonment , or for term of life , under the hand of our common Jaylors ; especially upon those tearmes of misery and extremity , which the farre greater part of those suffer and indure , who are imprisoned by men . So that in case the expression in the Queries so oft quarrelled , had been conjunctive , imprisonment and death , and not dis-junctive ( as now it is ) imprisonment or death , there had been no such capitall injury or offence committed against the Ordinance : how much lesse , the dis ▪ junctive being every wayes , as well in appearance , as in truth and substance , innocent ? But eares , must be horns , when Lions will .

Their fourteenth Answer , commeth not ●eere their fourteenth Sect. 60. Argument by sixteen foot , at least . Their Major in this Argument , is this : None ought to urge a truely faithfull and conscientious Sect. 61. Minister to publish contrary to what he is perswaded of , nor to threaten him with death or imprisonment , if he shall declare himself otherwise . To this they are pleased to Answer , That this Major is not universally true . Their reason : For though no Minister that is truely faithfull and conscientious , may publish any thing , when he ●● perswaded it is an errour ; yet if any such Minister hath first published any dangerous errour , to the dishonour of God , and the mischiefe of soules , he may be justly urged to make reparation for the evill which he hath caused , by publishing the contrary Truth : and may , if he shall refuse , be threatned with imprisonment , and even of death . They that can reconcile this reason unto the cause , which it undertakes , may doe it , if they please : I confesse I cannot . For is there so much as a face , or the lightest stricture of an appearance of any thing in it , to prove , That a truely faithfull and conscientious Minister , may be urged , or threatned with imprisonment or death , to publish contrary to what he is perswaded of , &c. If he be perswaded of Truth , in that which is contrary to what he hath published , he shall not need , being truely faithfull and conscientious , to be urged , much lesse threatned with imprisonment or death , to make reparations by the publishing of it . His faithfulnesse and conscientiousnesse will of their own accord lead him hereunto . If he be not perswaded , both the Quer●e and the Argument are still where they were , both un-answered .

Whereas in the sequell of this Answer , they cite that of the Apostle , Sect. 61. Gal. 5. 12. I would they were even cut off that trouble you , to prove , that he , that shall still persist to publish dangerous errours , may be threatned with death ( I suppose they mean , and cut off by death also ) I answer , first , that certainly though they let Paul alone with his owne words , yet they exchange meanings with him . For he doth not here speake of cutting off by the sword of the Magistrate , which is by death ; but by the sword of the Church ▪ which is by excommunication . Chrysostome , with whom Calvin agrees in his notion , conceives that the Apostle in his expression of cutting off , alludes to circumcision , which was made by abs●ission : and wisheth , that as they distracted the Church by preaching and urging the Doctrine of Circumcision , or cutting off , so themselves should be cut off . Now that cutting off , which was by circumcision , was not to the death , or destruction , but to Sect. 62. the benefit of the circumcised . Mr. Perkins calls the passage in hand , an imprecation or curse pronounced by Paul upon the false Apostles , and moveth this question upon it ; Whether we may not curse our enemies as Paul did ? To which he answers negatively , No : his reason : For we have not the like spirit to discern the persons of men what they are : and our zeale for Gods glory , is mixed with many corrupt affections , and therefore to be suspected . So that his judgement is , not onely that no argument can be drawne from this Scripture for the death or imprisonment of any teachers of errors , or troublers of Churches in that kind ; but not so much as for any imprecation , or wishing of evill against such . Luthers interpretation of the place differs not much ; who expounds the Apostles malediction or imprecation ( as he calls it ) against the disturbers of the Church , in the nature of an Anathema , and makes this to be the sense of it , that God would not guide or prosper either their Doctrine , or their doings . * * Rectè igitur facit Paulus , quod perturbatores ●llos maledicit , & pronunciat sententiam eos esse Anathema , cun omnibus quae sunt , docent , & faciunt , quodque imprecatur eis ut ex●i●dantur ex bac vitâ , & precipue ex Ecclesia , hoc est , ne Deus gubernet & fortunet Doctrinam & omnes actiones eorum , Luther ad Gal. 5. 12. Musculus understands the place cleerly of excommunication . I would they were cut off ( saith he ) But from whence ? Even from the body of the Churches of Christ , into which they had insinuated themselves , as if they had been members of them ; whereas indeed they were pernicious pests . They who are cut off , are abalienated from all communion and fellowship therewith , &c. It is true he speaks afterwards of cutting off by the Christian Magistrate : but his Text , according to his own interpretation of it , administers no ground at all unto him so to wish . Nor indeed doth he wish any such cutting off as this , but upon this ground or supposition , that the Churches of Christ have no other meanes whereby to be rid of those unworthy teachers and Pastors , whom he judgeth meet to be cut off ; which yet they ought to have , yea and might have , if they did not willingly suffer themselves to be deprived of it ; and then they should stand in no need at all of the strong hand of the Magistrate for such a purpose .

Whereas they adde , that Christians in former ages submitted to Sect. 62. suffer , with profession , that if they had been Heretiques or Blasphemers they had deservedly suffered ; and for proofe hereof , alledge that of the Apostle Paul ( when he was accused to have offended against the law of the Jews and the Temple ) If I be an offender , or have committed any thing worthy of death , I refuse not to dye , Act. 25. 8. 11. they here also commit that iniquity , by which they still build Sect. 63 their house of High Presbytery ; I mean , they misuse the good Word of God . For is there any thing in the passage they cite ▪ which so much as colours with that assertion , which they argue from it ? 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ( saith the Apostle . ) i. e. if indeed I did ( or doe ) injustice , or have committed any thing worthy of death , I refuse not , &c. Doe any of the Heretiques , or Sectaries now ( as these men are pleased to call all those , who refuse eandem insanire insaniam , with them ) refuse to suffer , or die , upon such tearmes as these ? Let them produce any one man of that generation which they so avile , and tread under their feet like clay and mire , or stones in the streets , who ever refused to suffer for injustice proportionably to his offence ? or to dye , having committed any thing worthy of death ? It may possibly be , that some of them have pleaded their innocency , when matters of injustice have been laid to their charge : and others have declared their judgements in opposition to some , who would make what they please , or what pleaseth not them , matters worthy of death . But in both these they are so farre from going against , that they follow , the example of the Apostle Paul ; who denyed that he had done any injustice , or committed things worthy of death , as his malicious accusers had traduced and falsely charged him to have done . O England , when will thy Teachers cease to pervert the streight wayes and word of the Lord ! when shall it yet be ?

Their Answer to their fifteenth Argument is somewhat faint Sect. 63. and tender . They speake here as if they cared not much whether they spake or no yet they take courage to say , that the publique holding of some opinions may be so prejudiciall to the publique peace , as may deserve imprisonment , and yet not deserve excommunication , &c. But their strength is wholy spent with bringing forth the bare assertion , that they have not left wherewith to cloath or guard it with any proofe . And indeed a thousand such sayings may more easily be asserted , then any one of them substantially proved . I desire to know what opinions those are , the publique holding whereof may be so prejudiciall to the publique peace , as to deserve punishment ; and yet not be so prejudiciall , either to the honour of God , or to the proceedings of the Gospell or to the well being of that particular Church , which ought to take cognizance of them , as to deserve excommunication . I feare that the publique peace is oftener Sect. 63. prejudiciall to the publique holding forth of many truths , then the publique holding forth of any opinion whatsoever prejudiciall unto that .

Whereas they adde , that the Apostle did not call them beloved Brethren , that at Corinth denyed the resurrection , but the rest of the Church that ●●ld the Truth ; except either they will say , that they speake it by Revelation , or else give some , either Scripture , or reason to prove it ; I trust they will give us leave to judge it Apocryphall , and to number it amongst the transgressions of their pen. That which followes , is yet of a more ignoble calculation : for they say , neither were there any such in the Church of Corinth , or Christian Churches then , that held opinions of farre worse consequence , then very many , or even then any of those errours , which the Ordinance threatens with death . But first , why , or in relation whereunto , doe they tell us this story ? would they have their Reader thinke , that in saying this ( though they could prove it , which they neither doe , nor , I beleeve , can ) they answer the demand of the Querie ? They that are willing to be deceived ▪ may so judge . But the Querie doth not aske , whether there were not in the Church ▪ who publiquely held some opinions of worse consequence , then many of those which the Ordinance threatens with death ; but , then many of those which this Ordinance threatens , either with imprisonment , or death . But when a shadow will doe the deed , what need men take care for the substance ? and when halfe answers will serve the turne , such as are compleat and whole are but superfluities . Secondly , for my satisfaction about the truth of the assertion , I desire to consult the learning and judgements , and consciences of these men ▪ whether this opinion , that the bodyes of men shall not rise againe after death , which they know was held in the Church of Corinth ▪ againe , whether the denying of justification to be by Christ alone , which they know was intertained by many in the Churches of Galatia ; yet againe , whether to deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh , which it seems from 2 Joh. v. 7. was the opinion and doctrine of many in these times ; whether I say every of these opinions , especially the second , be not of worse consequence , and more destructive to the eternall salvation of men , then this , that there is no day of judgement after death ; which yet is one of the errours threatened with death by the Ordinance ? Sect. 64.

Their Sxteenth Argument ( so called ) is fraudulently made , and drawn up quite besides the tenour and import of the Querie ; Sect. 64. and therefore though I cannot undertake simply for the justification of it , yet is it much more righteous then the Answer made to it : For ▪

First , this affirmeth , that those who hold and publiquely maintain any of the opinions , punishable by death in the Ordinance , cannot be so full of grace and goodnesse as those of a contrary judgement . An assertion ( doubtlesse ) no wayes reconcileable with any sound principle , either in reason or Religion . Yet our Anti-Querie-men ▪ undertake the patronage and defence of it , by this plea : Because ( say they ) they who h●ld , and publiquely maintain DAMNABLE heresies , have no true Grace , or goodnesse at all . But ( for Answer to this ) I would know of these men , what they mean , by DAMNABLE Heresies ? For I feare they spread a net in the darknesse of this word , DAMNABLE , to deceive their simple ones ▪ If by DAMNABLE , they mean that , which is alwaies and inevitably accompanied with eternall Damnation , there is truth in their reason , but no pertinency at all to their purpose ; unlesse they be stronger then God , and can doe impossibilities : as ( particularly ) prove , that all the opinions punishable by death in the Ordinance , are DAMNABLE in such a sense , i. e. of an absolute inconsistence with Grace , and forgivenesse of sin by God . I feare their touchstone , whereby they try opinions and heresies whether they be DAMNABLE in this sense , or no ▪ is but counterfeit and naught , and doth but abuse them , and many more with them . Yet if they will please to give it a name by which we may know it , we shall be the better able to examine and judge of it . For my part , I verily beleeve , that there are very few opinions or heresies ( as some men call Heresie ) which are DAMNABLE in this sense . My reason is , because the Scripture so expressely saith , That whosoever beleeveth in Jesus Christ , shall not perish , but have everlasting life . And if there be no opinion absolutely inconsistent with such a beleeving ▪ but onely that , which is either formally , or vertually , contradictory to it ; Certain I am , that there are not many DAMNABLE in the sense now argued upon . Yea , I make much question , whether all opinions , which are onely vertually and by way of implication , contradictory Sect. 65. thereunto , be absolutely inconsistent with this beleeving ; and consequently DAMNABLE ( in the said sense . ) But if by DAMNABLE Heresies , they onely meane , such opinions or errors , which are of dangerous consequence ( especially if they who hold them ▪ should withall hold all other Errours , which in a consequentiall way depend upon them ) and in this respect are justly and deeply condemnable , or censurable by men ; their reason vanisheth into nothing , for want of truth in it . For many who hold and publiquely maintain DAMNABLE Heresies , in this sense , may have , yea and some ( as farre as men are able to discerne ) defacto , have true Grace and goodnesse , ( as hath been formerly asserted in this Discourse ) and might be instanced in many more . But ,

Secondly , That which follows in this Answer , is of a far weaker Sect. 65. constitution , then that which went before . For here they affirme , that they that hold any of the other opinions punishable by the Ordinance , cannot be so full of grace and goodnesse , as they MAY BE who are of a contrary judgement . But

First , The Querie doth not make any such ridiculous demand ▪ whether those that are of a contrary judgement MAY NOT be as full of Grace and goodnesse , as those that hold the opinions made obnoxious by the Ordinance . But the purport of the Querie is this : Whether it be not possible , that these ( viz. taken in their present condition , with all their infirmities , whether in point of opinion , or practise ) may be as full of Grace and goodnesse , as the other ? ( viz. taken and considered likewise with their respective burtherns in both kinds , as for the present they walk laden with them . ) Now compare the Gentlemens Answer ( in the words mentioned ) with the Question put to them , and you will finde no more sympathy between them , then is between Harp and Harrow .

Secondly , Neither is there any whit more Truth , then pertinency of relation , in the said Assertion . For certainly they that hold some , yea , or all , the opinions punishable by the Ordinance , may be as full of Grace and goodnesse , as they may be , who are of a contrary judgement , viz. if God will please to interesse his power for the cleansing of the former from all filthinesse , both of opinion and practise , as well as of the latter . The Opinions punishable Sect. 66. by the Ordinance , are every whit as reduceable by the spirit of God , as the errours held and maintained by men of a contrary judgement : ( for I suppose that they also have their errors , if they be men ) and their persons or soules likewise capable of as great inlargements for , and with Grace from the hand of God , as theirs .

Thirdly , Whereas they further here say , That those who hold , and publiquely maintain any of those Heresies ▪ cannot be so truely serviceable to the State , as those of a contrary judgement ; because that thereby they even provoke God against the State , by the dishonour they bring to him , and the mischiefe they doe to his people ; Doe they suppose that those of a contrary judgement , amongst whom it is notoriously known , that there are fornicators , adulterers , drunkards , deceitfull , covetous , oppressors , proud , persecutors , &c. Doe they suppose ( I say ) that such abomination-workers as these , doe not at all provoke God against the State , or bring dishonour to him , or do mischiefe unto his people ? For without such a supposition as this , it is evident , that those who maintain some one , yea , or more , of the heresies ( so called ) or errors made punishable by the Ordinance , may be as truly serviceable to the State , as those of contrary judgement ; yea , and this with the full consent of that very reason , which is here brought to prove the contrary . Or doe these men conceive , that whosoever will undergo the penance of bowing downe his neck to the yoke of high Presbytery , shall hereby obtaine Sect. 66. a plenary remission of all his sinnes from God ; yea , and Do●a●i●tae , qui prae s● omnes alios Christian as condemna●ant severitatem censurae in suos re●ana 〈…〉 : et in suis ●aetibus h●mi es 〈…〉 os , ●● opt● o● , Gildo●ia●●s , Primianosque pa ●●●autur●● . Mart. Loc. Class . 4 cap. 5. ●●ct . 15. further be made uncapable of all further provocation ?

These men who are so furiously clamorous against Sectaries and Heretiques ( in which bundle of clamour they binde up the names of many that are precious in the sight of God and good men ) doe themselves imitate one of the worst straines that was found in one of the worst kinde of Sectaries , ( I meane the Donatists ) with the reproach of whose memory and practise they so frequently stigmatize those who dissent from them . The Donatists ( saith Peter Martyr ) who condemned all other Christians in comparison of themselves , were very remisse in their censures of those of their owne Sect. and patiently suffered even the most impure of men in their Assemblies * . And of Eunomius the Heretique it is reported , that suis sectatoribus quodvis scelus indulgebat . That is , he favored Sect. 68. his complices or followers in any mischiefe whatsoever .

Fourthly , whereas they alledge , that each of the erroneous opinions punishable by the Ordinance , hath somewhat of visible prejudice Sect. 67. to the Church and state ; and from hence argue , that those who hold and publiquely maintaine any of these opinions , cannot be so serviceable to the State as those who hold the truth in those things , may be ; this is a bird of the same feather , and hath beene pluck't already . Doubtlesse they who hold the truth in th●se things , may notwithstanding hold such erroneous opinions otherwise , and withall be so unworthy beyond the others , in their practises , and course of conversation ; that there may be much more visible prejudice both to the Church and State in these : yea , in either of them , then in the errors of the other . But when they adde , that the Queree ( against which they argue ) seems to inferre , that no Law is to be made to afflict or punish those that are godly , and serviceable to the Common-Wealth ; they lay a necessity upon me , either to judge them selfe-condemned in the charge , or else weak beneath the line of such men , who understand plaine English . For the cleer truth is , that there is not so much as the least s●emingnesse of any such inference or intimation , in the Querie .

In their Answer to their seventeenth Argument , they follow Sect. 68. their occupation ; first , they dictate , and then calumniate . They dictate ▪ that the Ordinance is not like to discourage ( they meane from the Ministery ) any , but hereticall and erroneous spirits , who would do mischiefe in the Ministery , if they were admitted unto it . By the way , is it not much that Ministers of an Anti-Congregationall Interest , should speake against those who doe mischiefe in the Ministery ? Therefore ( saith the Apostle ) thou art unexcusable , O man , whosoever thou art that judgest ; for wherein thou judgest another , thou condemnest thy selfe : for thou that judgest , dost the same thing * * Rom. 2. 1. . But how doe they prove , that the Ordinance is not like to discourage any , but hereticall and erroneous spirits ? No otherwise , then by the profound demonstration of an Authoritative silence . They are n●●i ad imperium , borne to Sovereignty ; and it is an indigne thing to put them upon the servility of disputing . The rule is , Lex imperet , non disputet : and is it not meet that Law-makers should partake of the honour and priviledges of the Law ? But if they could content themselves with the office of Dictatours , and not Sect. 69. intrench upon Sathans imployment also of calumniating ; it were a very considerable deduction from that summe of misery , wherewith the nation is now charged by them . Our Anti Querists have borrowed Gangrena's forehead , and are not ashamed to say , that it is the Querists calumnious insinuation , that the common doctrines of the Churches of God in this present age , are but misprisions and common errours in matters of Religion . Reader , if there be so much as the quantity of a mo●e in the ●unne of any such insinuation in the Querie ; let them weare the crown of Sagacious and quick-discerning men , and let the dung hill ( meet for slaunderers to sit on ) be assigned unto me for my portion . But if they in the charge have sinned the sinne of the dung hill , why should sinne and shame part company ? All the Querie can so much as seem to intimate about this point , is , that men of greatest worth for parts and abilities , are more likely then other men , to discover the common errours and misprisions of the present age in matters of Religion . But doth he that supposeth there are common errours and misprisions in matters of Religion , intimate , that the common doctrines of the Churches of God are but misprisions and common errours in Religion ? Or doth he that supposeth that there is much base and counterfeit coine abroad , intimate , that the best Silver and Gold are but counterfeit ? Or doth he that supposeth , that illiterate and ignorant men are common in the world , intimate , that the wisest and most learned men are but illiterate and ignorant ? Apagè calumniarum quisquilias .

In their eighteenth Answer , p. 20. pretending to answer an Sect. 69. Argument drawn from the parable of the tares , they say , that the parable doth not forbid to pluck up the tares in one field , for feare left others should plucke up the wheat in another [ field ] In this doubtlesse they speake most truly . For Christ was not afraid , left the plucking up of the tares in this world , should occasion the plucking up of the wheat in the next world . For the field , wherein both the wheate and the tares are to grow together , is expresly said to be the world , i. e. this present world . The field is the world , Matth. 13. 38. So that our Antagonists thus farre , in the point in hand , speake most substantially for matter of truth ; but most childishly , as for matters of Answer , or reason otherwise . Whereas they adde ; that the parable forbids to pluck up the tares , when by the Sect. 70. same act they may be in danger to pluck up the wheat with it ; if they can be content to have a sober sense put upon their words , ( a better , I beleeve , then their owne ) I willingly subscribe unto this also . For they , who by plucking up that , which they call tares , ( and perhaps is so ) in one part of the field , shall , or probably may , occasion or provoke others , to pluck up that , which they also call tares ( and perhaps is not so , but good wheat ) in another , may very properly be said , by the same act to be in danger of plucking up the wheat also with it . And there is little question ( indeed ) to be made , but that this was our Saviours expresse meaning in those words : lest while you gather up the tares , you pluck up also the wheat with them * * Mat. 13. 29. . i. e , lest by your example , in gathering out the tares in your part of the field ▪ or , where you have to doe , you occasion or excite others to pluck up the wheat in that part of the field where they have to doe : which latter thing , if it should be done , may justly be imputed to that act of yours in gathering or plucking up the tares . Our Saviour in this Parable expresseth himself to be so exceedingly tender of the lives and liberties of his Saints and faithfull ones ( signified by the Wheat ) that he prohibits the doing of such an act , which otherwise , even his servants themselves would judge most necessary to be done , chiefly because he knew and foresaw , that the doing of it would endanger these , I mean , the lives and liberties of many of his Saints , He declareth himself willing and desirous , that rather some unworthy men should be spared , then that their suffering should occasion the causelesse sufferings of his Saints , But

Secondly , When they say on , That the tares cannot be meant in Sect. 70. that parable , ONELY of Heretiques or false Teachers ; doe they not forget themselves exceedingly , and give away the cause of high-Presbytery at once ? He that shall say , that Abraham did not ONELY beget Isaac , doth he not suppose and grant , that Abraham howsoever did beget Isaac ? So he that shall say , that Christ did not ONELY call Peter and Andrew to be Apostles , doth he not cleerly imply , that yet he called these , as well as others to that dignity ? In like manner when our Counter-Querists say , that the tares in the parable cannot be meant ONELY of Heretiques and false Teachers , they plainly and fairely grant , that yet they are meant of these , as well as of any other sort of wicked men . Sect. 71. If so , then must not the Servants of Christ , whether Magistrates or Ministers , gather them out from amongst the wheat by death , but suffer them to grow together in the field , i. e. in the world , untill the great harvest in the end of the world : that is , they are to leave them , as for matter of corporall punishment , to the proceeding of God himself against them at the great day . Therefore

Thirdly , whereas they attempt to prove their said assertion , by saying , that by our Saviours own Interpretation , they are ALL those that in the field where the good seed is sown , are the children of the wicked one , i. e. all those who being ungodly in heart , doe manifest their ungodlinesse to the view of others ; they doe notoriously falsifie our Saviours Interpretation , and substitute that in the stead of it , which is not onely contrary to his meaning and word , but unto reason it self ▪ yea , and to the cleer sense and minde of the Scriptures elsewhere . For

First , Our Saviour doth not say , that the tares , are ALL the Sect 71. children of the wicked one ; but indefinitely thus : The tares are the children of the wicked one * * Mat. 13. 38. . Now indefinite propositions are not alwaies equipollent unto universals ; but are to be construed , sometimes as particulars , sometimes as universalls , according to the nature of them , together with direction of other circumstances , and assertions of the same Authors in which they are found .

Secondly , That our Saviour by the tares , doth not mean universally , ALL the children of the wicked one , is evident , because he onely speaks of such tares which were sown amongst the wheat , ( i. e. the children of the Kingdome , or of the Gospell ) and sprang up together with it * * Ver. 25. 26. . Now there were , and are at this day , ungodly ones , and children of the wicked one , in such parts or places of the field , where no wheat was ever sown ; I mean in such parts of the world , where the word of the Kingdom ( the Gospel ) was never preached .

Thirdly , the tares of which the Parable speaketh , are said to have been sown by the envious man some time after the wheat was sown . Therefore they cannot be meant , of ALL the children of the wicked one , or of ALL that are manifestly ungodly , because there were great numbers of these in the field ( the world ) even at the time when the wheat was sowne , and the world first planted with the Children of the Kingdome : yea , and long before . Sect. 72

Fourthly , If by the tares should be meant ALL wicked and manifestly ungodly ones , then ought not theeves , murtherers , nor the most desperate kinde of malefactors under Heaven , be cut off from the world by the sword of the civill Magistrate , but be let alone in their respective wayes and practises of mischiefe , untill the judgement of the great day . For our Saviour expresly orders and enjoyns , that the tares , of which he speakes in the parable , be suffered to grow together [ with the wheat ] untill the harvest * * Matth. 13. 30 . If our Anti-Querists whoever they be , thus charge the master of the house , with the crime of Anti-Magistraticallisme , it is no great matter if they charge those of his houshold with it much more .

Fiftly , such wicked and ungodly ones , and such onely , are meant Sect. 72. by the tares in our Saviours parable , the taking away of whose lives , is like to endanger the lives of his Saints , the children of the Kingdome , and that more generally . But he said , nay , lest whilst yee gather up the tares , yee pluck up also the wheat with them * * Ver. 29. . Now the cutting of many manifestly ungodly and wicked ones , by the sword of the Magistrate ; as viz. Murtherers , Theeves , Traytors , &c. doth no wayes endanger either the lives or liberties of the Saints , but rather is a preservative and security and honour unto them . The reason is , because these ( the Saints ) are generally kept by the power of God thorough Faith , as unto salvation ; so from the perpetration and breaking out into such horrid and vile practises , as these . Therefore when the actors of such impieties as these , are punished by the Magistrate , the innocency and unblameablenesse of their wayes are set of with the greater lustre and commendation . So that

Sixtly and lastly , by the tares in the parable , according to our Saviours interpretation , is meant onely that veyne , or sort of evill doers , who serve the Kingdome of Sathan by sowing false Doctrines , by corrupting the purity of the Gospell , as by spreading Errours and Heresies in the Churches of Christ amongst the Saints , &c. There are severall circumstances in the Parable , which cleerly restraines the sense and interpretation of the tares to false Teachers , and spreaders of Errours and Heresies . First , false Teachers and corrupters of the purity of the Gospell , were not found in the world , till some while after , that the Gospell had been purely and sincerely taught in the world , ( as the tares were Sect. 73 not sown , till some while after the sowing of the wheat ) whereas there were evill-doers of all other kindes in abundance , at this time , and before ( as hath been already said . ) There were indeed , false Teachers and corrupters of the truth in the Church of the Jews , before and at the time when the Gospell was first published in the world , such were the Sadduces , Pharises , &c. and so there were Teachers of many vanities amongst the Gentiles in many places . But the Gospell cannot properly be said to be corrupted with Errours or false Doctrines mingled with it ; first , untill the Truth of it was declared and planted in the world : Nor secondly , by any , but by those who professe it .

Secondly , the tares appeared not , till after the blade of the wheat was sprung up , yea , and had brought forth fruite * * Mat. 13. 26. . Nor were there any false Teachers heard of , who corrupted the Truth of the Gospell , untill the Apostles had planted the Gospell in the purity of it , and made many proselytes to it in the world , which our Saviour elsewhere ( viz. Joh. 15. 16. ) calleth a bringing forth fruite . But evill doers in other kindes there were as many ( or rather more ) before the wheat had brought forth this fruite , as afterwards ▪

Thirdly , the enemy , or envious man , who is said to have sowne Sect. 73. the tares , ( the Devill ) went his way , ( as the parable saith ) when he had done this worke ; that is , he did it slily and covertly ; he was not seen or observed when he did it , nor till some while after . Those false Teachers who mingled Evangelicall Truth with Errours and Heresies , were not suspected for such at the first , no nor discerned at all by very many professing Christianity , either first or last , viz. all such ▪ who imbraced their errours , instead of truth , and continued in them . Whereas in Murthers , Thefts , Seditions , Rebellions , Treasons , with many other kindes of impiety , Sathan is apparant , and to be seene ( as it were ) with open face .

Fourthly , the gathering up of the tar●s , endangered the plucking up of the wheat also with them . In like manner , if Magistrates or others shall be busie about plucking up Sectaries , Heretiques , Teachers of Errours , &c. they will be in continuall danger of plucking up the wheat also , I mean godly men , and children of the Kingdome .

First , because many truly pious and conscientious men , children Sect. 73. of the Kingdome , may easily bee drawn into some unwarrantable Sect , or opinion . Secondly , such opinions as expose those who hold them forth , to the reproachfull names of Sectaries , Schismatiques , Heretiques , &c. and in this respect shall be sentenced , and proceeded against by the Magistrate ▪ as erroneous and hereticall , may well be the sacred Truths of God ; and the persons holding them forth unto the world , the best and faithfullest of his servants ; Examples hereof were frequent in this very Kingdome in the dayes of Papall power . Thirdly , and lastly , the very example of one kinde of Magistrate plucking up the tares , as he calls tares , in one place ; is very likely to occasion the like plucking up , by a Magistrate of another spirit in another place , of such as he calls tares , who yet , very possibly , may be the good wheat . Whereas if we speak of morall impieties and the workers of these , as Adulterers , Murtherers , Oppressors , Traitors , &c. there is little or no danger , that the Saints ( at least , not any considerable numbers of them ) should suffer by any proceedings of the Magistrate against these , because , First , they are seldome given up to the committing of such sins as these . Secondly , because , there are no other practises , whether righteous or unrighteous , that are any thing like unto these , or wherein there is ordinarily any place for a mistake , by men of ordinary understanding . Thirdly , and lastly , neither can the example of any one Magistrate , inflicting punishment upon offenders in any of these kindes , in reason or likelihood of event , occasion another Magistrate of what spirit soever , to inflict punishment upon those who are not offenders ; in as much as all Magistrates are of one and the same judgement in this , that morall misdemeanours , and particularly those that were mentioned , with their like , ought to be punished .

Fifthly and lastly , the tares are by the order and command of Christ , to be suffered to grow together with the wheat , untill the harvest . But evident it is , that Christ would not have murthers , thefts , adulteries , and other morall misdemeanors , to be left unpunished by the Civill Magistrate untill the last day ; because then , he should carry the sword in vain , and not be Gods Minister to execute wrath upon such as doe evill ; and so the Office of Magistracy would be quite taken away by such an interpretation . Therefore without all controversie , by the tares are precisely and determinately Sect. 74. meant , false teachers , and spreaders of errors in Religion ( and yet not all these neither , though now we have not time to distinguish ) whom the Magistrate may suffer to grow with the wheat unto the harvest , and yet have work enough for his sword , and his Office stand in full force , strength , and vertue , for the benefit and accommodation of the world .

But our Anti-Querists perceiving this Parable comming against Sect. 74. them and their bloody Tenet , like an armed man , against whom no resistance is to be made , they wisely seek to divert the course of it another way ; and fain would perswade the world , that the scope of it rather relates to the providence of God in the ministery of Angels , then to the duty of the Magistrate ( this certainly is a new light hung out by the Gentlemen Presbyterians . ) And because they could not much confide in such an empty speculation as this , or think that it would ever passe the judgements of men with acceptation ; therefore through feare they betake themselves to the refuge of this darknesse : That there is some obscurity in all parables to make them sute . And because they would not willingly be disturbed in their way , by this or any other Parable , therefore they further give this prudent admonition to their Adversaries concerning Parables , that they are not to be urged beyond their scope ; which they would have both them and all the world to presume , is never to hurt or to indanger High-Presbytery . Which also ( in effect ) they confesse , in the words following ; which ( the errors , either of their presse , or pen , or both , corrected with as much skill and faithfulnesse as I can ) are these : The scope of which Parable , that it is not to shew the Magistrates duty , may appeare further by our Saviours interpretation and making no application , or [ shewing ] what men should doe here in sparing any wicked man , but shewing what God will doe at the day of judgement , as is MANIFEST to any that will read Christs interpretation of it . It seems then , notwithstanding some obscurity in the Parable , yet there is some light also in it . For whatsoever maketh MANIFEST is light . And the truth is , that there is more obscurity in these few lines of theirs , then is in all the Parable they speak of . For they tell us twice over ( for failing ) of Christs Interpretation of the Parable ; and yet deny that he makes any application . For my part I understand not how any man can make an interpretation of a Parable , without Sect. 75. making some application or other . If their meaning be , that Christ in his Interpretation of it , did not apply it to the Magistrate , or speak of his duty in sparing any wicked man , ( which they seeme brokenly to imply . )

I Answer , It is not necessary for the opening or interpretation of a Parable , to interpret or apply every particularity contained in it , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or in expressenesse of words : it is sufficient , if such and so many particulars of it be interpreted , or applyed ; by the understanding whereof other particulars also , and consequently the whole Parable , may be understood . Now certain it is , that Christ hath so farre interpreted the Parable of the tares , and made application of so many of the particulars in it , that the residue of it may by the light of the●e , be cleerly understood . So that it no wayes follows , that because Christ did not apply the Parable ( viz. in expressenesse of tearmes , or , totidem verb● ) to the Magistrate , or shew what he should doe here in sparing wicked men ; that therefore the duty of the Magistrate in this behalf , is not cleerly and with sufficient evidence of the Truth , held forth in the Parable .

The former part of their Answer to the Argument under protection . Sect. 75. consisting of the greatest part of their twentieth page , hath been fully answered in what hath been replyed to the latter : From whence also it cleerly appears , that the whole tenour and carriage of it , lies quite besides the spirit , drift , and scope of the Querie . The scope of this , was not to ask , whether any man ought to neglect a duty , for feare of any inconvenience , one , or more , greater or lesser , that may possibly attend the performance ( which is all that this part of the Answer maketh at ) but whether such an act or practise as is there mentioned , be not likely to to produce that inconvenience or evill , for the prevention wherof , the Lord Christ hath declared himselfe against the practise .

In their nineteenth Answer they doe nothing lesse then rage right-downe ; affirming , first , that the minor in their own Argument , is nothing else but the impudency of the Querist , with whom any Heretique or Blasphemer may passe for a conscientious man . What ? Gentlemen , and give such course language ? Christians , and revile at this rate ? Men of conscience , and call that my impudency , which they inwardly judge to be their owne commendation ? Sect. 75. For certainly they judge all these Arguments and Syllogismes to be their praise and honour , and accordingly in their Epistle to the Reader , they cunningly , and very effectually crave of him , that which they conceive to be their due in this kinde , by rendring Rog●● ▪ & quidem e●fi●a●●s●●● qui r●dd●● r●g●●●● caus●s . Sen. reasons , upon which they may crave it , viz. the paines they took in the composing of them ; and the hope they have of giving ease and satisfaction by them to their Readers . But

First , what manner of monstrous beast is this unhappy minor , which thus affrights these men out of their Christian wits ? Alasse ! it is but this innocent Lamb , ( whether mine or theirs . ) The Ordinance in question , is apparently bent against the faces , if not of the most , yet of a very considerable part of the best and most conscientious men amongst us . Well , it seems this Lamb must make a sacrifice : but how , or with what knife doe the Priests slay it ? with this : It is false , the Ordinance is onely bent against Heretiques and Blasphemers and other erroneous spirits , who will needs , notwithstanding any admonition , publish doctrines that are hurtfull to mens soules , and the peace of the Church and State . But is not the Lamb yet alive for all this stroke given unto it ? Or is not the bare affirmation of the minor thus struck at , as Authoritative and Authentique , as the bare negation of the Answer ? If the Anti-Querists know any such difference between themselves and the Querist , that all his sayings must needs be hay and stubble , and all theirs silver and gold , they shall doe well to informe him of it . He shall presently , upon the information , if it be competent , make all his sayings to become homagers unto theirs . But with as much confidence as they seem to rejoyce against the poore minor , as being false , above , and beyond , and without all question , they soon pull in their hornes , and think it best to distinguish , to cover the nakednesse and shame of their deniall . But alasse ! the covering of the distinction is too scant and narrow for the service , the nakednesse of the deniall appeares notwithstanding . Of which latter sort ( say they , speaking of those who publish Doctrines hurtfull , as they are pleased to tearme them , to the peace of the Church and State ) if any should be conscientious , the Ordinance is no wayes bent against their faces , as they are conscientious , but as they are instruments of evill , &c. But

First , whether may not they , who publish Doctrines hurtfull to Sect. 76 Sect. 76. the peace of the Church and State ( in a sense ) be instruments of good and not of evill , in so doing ? Christ and his Apostles preaching the Gospel , published Doctrines , that occasioned divisions and distractions both in Families and States , as we all know . And yet in propriety of speech , these Doctrines published , were not hurtfull to the peace of either , i. e. to the reall good , and due peace of either . They were indeed hurtfull and interruptive , of , and to , that sinfull peace wherein they found them ; but they who published them , were never the more instruments of evill . In like manner if there be any agreement or peace in a Church or State , in any thing which is evill , or erroneous ; they who shall publish Doctrines which may probably occasion the disturbance of such peace ( especially as the degree of the evill , and nature of the error may be ) are not therefore instruments of evill . But miserable is the condition of that Church or State , which shall punish men , not onely truely conscientious , but instruments also of good unto them , under the notion of instruments of evill .

Secondly , I desire to ingage the consciences of these men , to Sect. 77. answer me to these foure Questions .

First , Whether they doe not look upon the publishing of the principles of the Congregationall Government ( and so of that which they call Ana-Baptisme ) whether by way of Doctrine , or of practise , as the publishing of Doctrines hurtfull to the peace of the Church and State ?

Secondly , Whether they doe not judge the number of those persons amongst us , who publish such Doctrines as these , either by word , or practise , to be a very considerable number ?

Thirdly , Whether they doe not judge farre the greatest part of these men to be truely conscientious ? If they shall answer affirmatively ( as I know their consciences will , whatsoever themselves will doe ) to all these Questions ;

I will ( as to this point ) crave but another Answer to this brief Question , whether the Ordinance in debate be not bent against the faces of all these men ?

Themselves grant in terminis , that it is bent against such , who ( in their sense , for so they must needs be understood ) shall publish Doctrines that are hurtfull to the peace of the Church and State ; yea , they grant by way of a cleer supposition , that there are of Sect. 78 these who are conscientious ( if they should not , their own consciences would not beare it at their hands ) onely , they deny , that the Ordinance is bent against these men , AS they are conscientious . Did ever the Dragon or the Beast , I mean Rome , either Pagan or Anti-Christian , bend their bloody Edicts or persecutions against the Saints , the most conscientious men amongst them , AS they were conscientious ? or in any other respect or consideration whatsoever , then AS ( in their sense ) instruments of evill ? The most ungodly persecuting wretch that ever breathed under these Heavens , did never persecute or speak evill of a Saint , AS a godly , or conscientious man . If themselves were severely punished , and their livings and estates taken from them , AS false accusers of their brethren ; would it be any ease or gratification to them , that they were favoured and not proceeded against , AS Presbyterians , or conscientious men ? But if such distinctions as these be their bottome grounds and reasons to prove either majors , or minors false , and to make out-cryes against them , as being nothing else but the impudency of the Querist , &c. who can refraine lamentations and teares over the soules of those , whose dependance is for the great things of life and immortality , on such men . Whereas they charge the Querist , as a man , with whom any Heretique or Blasphemer may passe for a conscientious man ; I passe by it , as judging that no man will think it worth the taking up .

Whereas they ingage themselves with so much diligence to Sect. 78. prove , that Laws must be bent against Instruments of evill , notwithstanding any conscience they pretend to have ; take knowledge , Reader , that it is but a stale device to delude simple and inconsidering men ; usually practised by those , who being not able to grapple with an Adversary , in the point in question between them , hunt counter and follow with great eagernesse and opennesse of mouth a false sent ; laying on proofe upon proofe , reason upon reason to prove something , which it may be hath some affinity , at least in a sound of words , with the Question in hand , but was never denied , nor intended to be denied , by their opposer , nor indeed is any matter of controversie between any ; that by this meanes they may cover their weaknesse and insufficiency to deale with their Adversary , from weak and injudicious men , and seem to carry the day before them with a strong hand . The Counter-Querists Sect. 79 have taken this Sanctuary , once againe , and the third time also , in this their Vindication : and they doe it palpably in this place . For did the Querist ever deny , or intimate the least inclination in him towards a deniall , but that Lawes ought to bee bent against instruments of evill , notwithstanding any conscience they pretend to have . Therfore the labour which they bestow in the proofe of this , they should have done well to have converted some other way ; and particularly , in seeking out a rock ▪ to build their High-Presbytery upon , which all this while stands upon sandy and loose foundations .

That which they yet adde in the close of this Answer , concerning Geneva , having Laws against Heretiques , &c. neither reacheth the demand of the Querie , nor yet the import of their owne Argument , pretending legitimacy of descent from it , It is one thing for a State to have Laws against Heretiques ; another , by Laws or Ordinances to strike at great , and very considerable numbers of the best and most conscientious men amongst them ▪ If those Laws against Heretiques and false Teachers in the State of Geneva , of which they speak , were compared with the Ordinance whereof we both speak , I beleeve they would be so farre from justifying it , that it would rather justifie them , by being more unrighteous and unreasonable then they .

In their twentieth Answer , they sing over their old note ; affirming , that the Ordinance is of no such bloody consequence to truely Sect. 79. pious and conscientious ●en , [ as any thing which the Bishops did attempt against the godly whom they hated ] as they presume they have shewed . But where , or to whom , or by what light they have shewed it , I am yet to Query . Whereas they adde in the close of this Answer , that the Bishops were cast out for their lukewarmnesse ; doe they mean for their lukewarmnesse in attempting the sorrows , troubles , molestations , of conscientious and pious men ? or in procuring Ordinances and Laws , for the support and strengthening of their Kingdome ? Doubtlesse their zeale in this kinde was very great : though Alexander may conquer beyond the line of Philips Victories . And I beleeve , that it was more their zeale in this kinde , then any lukewarmnesse , that was the cause of their casting out : and ( to joyn with our Antagonists in their Admonition ) let others take heed of the like . Sect. 80.

We shall lightly passe by their 21 Answer , as containing little Sect. 80. in it , but this bare assertion ; That the Ordinance , in the words or intent of it , gives unto wicked men no advantage or opportunity to accuse the best Ministers of such things which may touch their lives , or bring much trouble unto them ; but ONELY gives advantage to the best men , to be rid of the worst Ministers . With what conscience they speak thus , I referre to themselves , and their own consciences ; With what truth , I referre to all unpartiall considering men to judge . Are the Ministers who walk in the Congregationall way , the worst of Ministers ? For my part , I heartily , and as in the presence of the all-knowing God , wish they were : and that all those who are of a contrary judgement to them , had the spirit of their Grace , knowledge , and goodnesse in every kinde doubled and trebled upon them .

In their 22 and 23 Answer , ( p. 24. ) they tell us ( in effect ) Sect. 81. What the wisedome of the Parliament can , and what their justice and care will ( no doubt ) doe , for the undoing of all the Ordinance intends to doe . For in case the Parliament will please to undertake , and settle a thorow and effectuall course , that neither the simplicity of the Jury , nor of the Judge , nor yet the simplicity , nor duplicity , of any , or all the Ministers of the Provinciall or Nationall Assembly , shall be any prejudice to the lives or liberties of studious , learned , and conscientious Ministers , or others ; it may very well be presumed , that the Ordinance will have very little to ▪ doe , in point of execution ; and that the principall use and service of it will be , to put the Parliament upon ▪ the trouble of contriving and setling such a course .

In their 24 Answer ( p. 25. ) they bring forth strange children . Sect. 82. As first , That the fourth Commandement , doth in the words of it , require onely one day in seven , to be kept holy , as a Sabbath , and doth not expressely command the observation of the Jewish Sabbath , &c. If so , then were the Sabbaths , which the Jews observed , of their own chusing : and how then doth God so frequently call them , His ? Verily my Sabbaths ye shall keep , Exod. 31. 13. and Nehemiah in his prayer unto God expresseth himself thus : And madest known unto them thy Holy Sabbath , &c. Neh. 9. 14. In which words , he doth not onely appropriate the Jewish Sabbath unto God , but likwise calls it his holy Sabbath ; i. a day which he hath sanctified Sect. 83. unto himself and his worship ; yea and expresly saith , that God made it knowne unto them ( the Jewes ) i. revealed unto them on which day of the seven he would bee solemnly worshipped by them . See also Levit. 19. 3. 30. Esa. 56. 4. Ezek. 20 , 12 , 13. with other places many . God is not wont to appropriate any thing unto himselfe which is of humane election , in , or any wayes appertaining unto his worship ; though sometimes he calls many of these things , theirs , to whom he hath given or appointed them . And besides the reason of the Commandement , for in six dayes the Lord made Heaven and Earth &c. expresly characterizeth that very day as intended by God for a Sabbath unto them , which they observed . But the assertion is so empty , and obnoxious , that surely it will fall in the judgements of men without thrusting .

Secondly , This Answer advanceth with this Divinity ; that within the generall scope of the Commandement , which is the observing of those times , and those onely as necessary to Religion , which God himselfe appoints , was included the Jewish Sabbath , or Saturday , before Christs Resurrection , and the Christian Sabbath , the Lords day , is now since Christs Resurrection , included also . But

First , If the Jewish Sabbath was included in the Commandement , or in the scope of the Commandement , before Christs Resurrection , how came it to be excluded after his Resurrection ? Hath the Resurrection of Christ any such influence upon the morall Law , as to cause it to eject , or cast out any thing formerly by way of duty contained or included in it ?

Secondly , If the scope of the Commandement , be the observing of those times and of th●se onely , &c. which God himselfe appoints ; then how comes the observation of the Christian Sabbath , or Lords day , to be included therein ; considering , that according to the Doct●ine of this Answer , this day was no more appointed by God , then any of the other six ? Or were all the six dayes besides , as well included in it , as this ? If so , why are they not as well observed ?

Thirdly , If the Christian Sabbath or Lords day ; be now since Sect. 83. Christs resurrection included in the scope of the Commandement ; I would gladly know , how , or by what Authority , or by whose act it hath beene brought within the verge of this scope , so as to be included in it . If Answer be made , that it hath beene brought Sect. 83. in by the Authority , or act of God ; then doth he not in this Commandement onely require one day in seven to be kept holy as a Sabbath ; but he requireth circumscriptively and particularly which of the seven he will have so kept . If it be said , that it hath beene brought in by the Church , or by men , then have men power to take it out againe , and to put in any other of the six in the stead of it . And how did the Resurrection of Christ contribute any thing towards the bringing of this day within● the scope of the Commandement , if it depended upon the will and pleasure of men ? But into the secret of these mens Divinity in this place , my soule as yet cannot finde the way to enter . And

Thirdly ( and lastly ) doe these men substantially prove , that the morall Law contained in the ten Commandements , is the rule of a Christians life , onely by saying , that the Christian Sabbath , is now included in the generall scope of the fourth Commandement , and that the Sacraments of the New Testament , Baptisme and the Lords Supper , are included within the scope of the second Commandement now ? First , they prove not so much as the least haire of their heads amount unto , of either of their assertions : and yet neither of them lyeth so neare any known principle either of Reason , or Religion , that they need have feared ▪ the proverbiall reproof of lighting up a candle to see the Sunne , in case they had bestowed a slender argument or two , upon the clearing of them . But secondly , if what they affirme in both , were granted , yet their conclusion is not hereby gained . For onely such a Law can properly be called a rule of life to Christians , which either particularly , or at least sufficiently , prescribes and regulates all things necessary to be done by a Christian , as a Christian . Now the generall scope of the two Commandements specified , and much more the Commandements themselves , are so farre , either from prescribing , or regulating either of the duties respectively affirmed to be included in them , that without particular direction for the performance both of the one and the other , otherwise ; neither of them had ever beene practised by men , notwithstanding the generall scope of the said Commandements , yea and Commandements themselves . I trust the Anti-Querists themselves do not make any such Law the Rule of their lives , which neither teacheth nor directeth them what to doe .

To the twenty fifth Query , desiring to know in what sense the Sect. 84. Sect. 84. Ordinance maketh it an Error , to hold , that a man by nature hath free will to turne unto God ; they returne this sleeve-lesse and froward Answer : That there are scarce any words , but a Caviller may pretend of them , that they are to be understood divers wayes . But good Gentlemen , doth the Querist pretend this of the words in hand ? doth he not particularly assigne , and plainely explicate two distinct senses wherein the said words may be taken ; humbly craving to know● , which of the two was the sense intended by the Ordinance ? But I confesse that in High Presbytery , where Authorativenesse hath her throne , to desire a steady and distinct explication of things , is ( constructively ) to cavill . However , it had been no such meritorious straine of ingenuity in these men , having two distinct senses of a clause ready formed , stated , and presented to their hand , with a modest desire to know , which of the two was to rule , for them to have clearly answered either for the one , or for the other : or in case neither of them had comported with the intent of the Ordinance , to have substituted a third in their stead . But instead of this , they disparage themselves with this tergiversation in the procedure of their answer : But the Parliament hath so oft declared against Arminian●sme , of which this , ( I wonder which , or what ? ) is a chiefe Article , and so 〈…〉 our former Parliaments , that no man hath any reason to imagine , that they understand any other thing by that opinion ( they should have done well to have told us what opinion it is they speake of ) then the Arminian freewill , which by the Reformed Churches is generally condemned , as a pernicious Error . But

First , I wonder how these men come to know , or to presume what the Parliaments sense is about that Free-will . which is sentenced with imprisonment in the Ordinance , when as ( confident I am ) that they have never yet given an account of their sense therein , either unto them , or any other .

Secondly , I would willingly ask these men , what competent grounds they have , to think ( especially with so much confidence as their words import ) that either the Parliament , or especially the makers of the Ordinance , mean , the Arminian Free-will ; when as , first , it is probable , that they never studied the state of the Controversie between the Arminians and their opposers , about the point of Free-will ; and so cannot know ( at least otherwise Sect. 86. then by loose and common heare say ) what the Arminian Free-will is . And secondly , inasmuch as many , and those Scholars and Students in Divinity by profession , who have bestowed some time and study in the controversie , are yet scarse able to give any sensible account of the difference , or state of the Question , between the combatants .

Thirdly , I desire of them , that they will please in their Rejoynder , to relieve my darknesse in the point with their light , and clearly informe me , what themselves mean by the Arminian Free will . I have bestowed some time , and upon occasion inquired as narrowly as some others , to finde out what was the sense and opinion of Arminius himself , about the bondage , and freedome of the will : I have likewise consulted the writings of some that are generally reputed his followers , upon the same occasion . By comparing the Master with some of his Disciples , I clearly finde that there is to the full as great a difference between the judgements of the one and of the other ( in the point now under consideration ) as there is between the judgement of the generality of learned Divines in England , and Arminius himself . Yea , I professe , that looking lately into Arminius , on purpose to finde some passa●● or expression , one or more , of some rank import upon the subject , and I could meet with none , but what with a faire and reasonable construction of the words , was fully reconcileable with the judgements and expressions of some reformed Churches , yea and of some of eminent note and desert , both for piety and soundnesse of judgement , amongst our selves . Amongst some of Arminius followers I confesse I found it otherwise . Now then this is the request which I make to these men ( and I trust they will not judge it unreasonable ) that they will plainly declare themselves what they mean by their Arminian Freewill ; whether that , which is held and taught by Arminius himselfe , or which is maintained by some of his followers ; there being so materiall and considerable a difference between them ?

Fourthly ( and lastly ) whereas they send us to the generality of Sect. 86. the Reformed Churches to informe our selves , what Free-will it is , which is made punishable by the Ordinance with imprisonment , defining it to be that , which by the Reformed Churches is generally condemned as a pernicious Errour . First , I cannot but judge it unreasonable Sect. 87 in the highest , that the generality of men amongst us should be made obnoxious to imprisonment , by such an expression in an Ordinance or Law , the sense and meaning whereof they cannot come to understand , but onely by consulting the writings and all the confessions of Faith , set forth by all the Reformed Churches respectively . Alas , the farre greater number of men amongst us , are wholy uncapable of this information , not understanding the language , wherein these Confessions of Faith are written .

Secondly , To my knowledge the Reformed Churches themselves do not generally , at least not universally agree , in condemning the Arminian free-will , as a pernicious Errour , but some of them doe subscribe and publish that to the world upon this subject for truth , which others of them condemne for an Errour . So that the Anti-Querists have meerly baffled in their Answer , instead of giving any satisfaction to the Querie , demanding the sense of this clause in the Ordinance , that a man by nature hath free-will to turne unto God .

In their 26 and 27 Answer , pag. 29. though they quit themselves Sect. 87. with somewhat more fairnesse and ingenuity , then they do in all the rest , yet they do not speak distinctly enough to the minde of the Querie , when by Blaspheming , in the Ordinance , they say , are meant , onely such horrible expressions against God , as cannot with patience be heard by any Christian eare . In this description , there are sundry particulars of a very doubtfull interpretation . As first , when they define , Blasphemy , by horrible expessions against God , whether they exclude Christ man , or as being man , from being an object capable of this Blasphemy . Secondly , what they mean by a Christian ear ; whether the ear of a person , who is Christian indeed , i. e. a true and sound Believer , or of a Christian at large , and by outward pr●●●ssion onely . We know there is a great difference between the eare of the one , and of the other , in respect of tasting Blasphemy . If they meane the eare of a sound Christian , a true Beleever , it is a point of no easie decision to determine , who amongst men are such . If the eare of a Christian at large , I suppose they cannot but know , that there are many such eares , who can heare any Blasphemy whatsoever , with patience ( whatsoever is meant by it ) more then enough . Thirdly and lastly , what they Sect. 88. meane , by being heard with patience , whether by Patience , they mean such a composednesse of minde and spirit , which keepes men from all unseemly deportment or expression of themselves outwardly , in cases of provocation : ( which is the common signification of the word ) or else such a temper , by which a man is indisposed to greeve , or take sorrow upon such occasions , which usually cause sorrow and griefe of heart unto men . Stand we by , either the one signification of the word , Patience , or the other , the clause , cannot be heard with pat●●nce , will be found very inconvenient to be put into the definition , or description of Blasphemy . If we stand by the former , certaine it is , that the more Christian the eare is , the greater Blasphemy will be heard with patience . The stronger and better built any Christian is , the further he will be from any unseemly carrage upon any provocation whatsoever . If by the latter , the sense is altogether uncouth , and no meat either for the eare , or understanding .

Of like ambiguity , and incumbred with the same difficulties , is their explication of this clause in the Ordinance , impugning the word of God ; this ( they say ) cannot reasonably ●e thought to signifie lesse , then such reproaches against the Truth , or divine Authority of the Scriptures , as are not to be indured by those that beleeve them to be the word of God . If this be all that is meant by the said clause , then men may impugne the word of God ( I meane the Scriptures ) in a Scholastique way , by arguments fram'd against the Divinity of them , without comming under the dint or stroake of the Ordinance ▪ in case they r●fraine reproachfull expressions .

But suppose these men should give us a cleer and a faire sense of these , and all other expressions in the Ordinance , that are dark and dubious , yet this would not justifie the Ordinance , unlesse the makers and contrivers of it will please to ratifie them with their subscriptions . For ( as the maxime is ) Ejusdem ●st ●●rpr●t●ri cujus est condere . They onely have power to interpret a Law ( viz. authoritatively , and with such an interpretation , on which a subject may safely repose ) who by a lawfull power made it .

Their Argument pretending to the 28 Querie , is fram'd quite Sect. 88 , besides it ; and their Answer , as much besides the Argument . In this Answer , they first grant , that to say and maintaine , that God seeth no sin in the justified , in a sense , is justifiable and true : and yet Sect. 8● secondly they affirme , that it may be made punishable notwithstanding . The reason they give , is onely this ; because in another sense ( which they call the literall , and common ) it is a dangerous and pernicious error . But will any man Christianly disposed , judge it meet , that the saying or publishing , that Christ is a Vine , or a doore , should be made punishable ; unlesse they declare the particularity of that sense , wherein they make it punishable . But this light courtesie cannot ( it seemes ) be obtained in the case of Gods seeing no sin in the justified , of those , who yet would have the world beleeve , that they have sufficiently Answered the Queries .

Before they come to Syllogize the twenty ninth Querie , they Sect. 89. make a sad complaint of it , that it is perplexed , and the sense of it involved , &c. But I marvell why they should turne Querulists against the Querist upon occasion of this Query , when as in their Answer to it ( setting aside a gentle evaporation of some folly towards the beginning of it , and a little fit of frowardnesse in the end ) they are more distinct , and speake more steadily to the heart of it , then they doe to any of the rest in their respective Answers ; yea they have not quitted themselves so like men of judgement and understanding in all their discourse besides , as they have done in the sober part of this Answer ; which ( for their credit ) I shall set downe in their owne words , and improve a little for their benefit . He ( say they ) that hath read the Socinian bookes , whose proper opinion it is , that a man must beleeve no more , then by his reason he can comprehend , will easily be satisfied , that the Ordinance plainly requireth , that a man should not refuse to beleeve those Doctrines , which are clearly , and certainly , for the matter of them , laid downe in the word of God ; as for example , the Doctrine of the Trinity , and the incarnation of the Son of God ▪ although for the manner of them he cannot by his reason comprehend them , and NOT THAT A MAM MVST BELEEVE THAT WHICH HE HATH NO REASON OR GROVND FOR IN THE WORD OF GOD. So then they clearly , and fairly grant , that the Ordinance doth not require , that a man must [ or ought ] in point of Religion , beleeve any thing , but what he hath reason and ground for , in the word of God . From hence then it follows

First , that Reason ought to be every mans leader , Guide , and Sect. 90 Sect. 90. Director in his Faith , or about what he is , or ought to beleeve : and that no man ought to leap with his Faith , till he hath looked with his Reason ; and discovered what is meet to be beleeved , what not . This is sound Divinity indeed : and few more such principles as this , well digested by these men and their friends , would make them worthy of that title of honour which they so much affect , I meane , Orthodox .

Secondly , From the said Grant it followeth also , that Ministers ought not to require their people , to beleeve any thing ( much lesse every thing ) which they teach , unlesse they have a reason and ground for it ( and those sufficient , for mortuus hon●● , non est homo ; nor is an insufficient Reason , any reason at all , in this case ) from the word of God .

Thirdly , it followeth yet further , that neither ought men to receive or subscribe unto with the hand of their Faith , the determinations or Decretalls of Synods , Councils , or Assemblies of persons of what capacity or worth soever , in matters of Religion , unlesse they have a sufficient Reason or ground from the word of God , for what they doe receive in this kinde .

Fourthly , and lastly it followeth yet once more from the foresaid grant , that men ought to make use of , yea , and ingage to the uttermost , their Reasons or their discursive abilities , in all matters of Faith and Religion whatsoever ; and not to swallow any thing by a loose credulity ▪ but to look narrowly upon every thing with the eye of Reason , before they receive it by the hand of Faith . All these deductions are of a legitimate and cleere descent from the mentioned grant , and are all of them pregnant , noble ▪ and magnifique Truths . Onely I cannot well understand , why the Gentlemen should grant , that a man must not , or ought not , to beleeve , what he hath no reason or ground for in the Word of God , and yet condemne this for an error , that a man ought to beleeve no more , then what by Reason he is able to comprehend . For if a man cannot beleeve any thing , but what he knows to have a being , nor yet beleeve the parricular modus or manner of any thing , unlesse he knows it to be such , as he beleeves it to be ; and againe , if he cannot know either being , or manner of being ▪ unlesse he conceives , or comprehends it in and by his Reason , what either the one , or the other is ( which is a Truth unquestionable ) it undeniably Sect. 91. follows , that a man ought not to beleeve any thing , either being , or manner of being , but what by reason he is able to comprehend , i. e. able upon good ground to satisfie himself , that either the one , or the other , is so , or such , as he beleeveth them to be .

As to the two instances , wherein they insist , the Doctrine of the Sect. 91. Trinity , and the Incarnation of the Son of God , affirming , that a man ought not to refuse to beleeve them , although for the manner of them he cannot by his reason comprehend them :

I Answer , First , that as by my reason , I can and doe comprehend , and know them to be incomprehensible , so I beleeve them accordingly to be . Again ,

Secondly , as by my reason , I neither doe , nor can comprehend or conceive , the particular modus or manner of either , so neither doe I , or ought I , nor indeed can I ( without running an extreame hazzard of an erroneous belief ) beleeve any thing at all concerning them ; save onely their incomprehensiblenesse in the generall : or , that they are incomprehensible ; which ( as was said ) I am able by my reason to comprehend ▪ So then , these two Assertions or Doctrines ( well understood ) First , That a man ought to beleeve no more , then what he hath reason and ground for in the Word of God . And Secondly , t●●● : That a man ought to beleeve no more , then what he is able by his reason to comprehend , are but of an equipollent import ; and there is nothing more ( much more , nothing more erroneous ) in the one , then in the other .

That towards the beginning of this Answer ( yea , there is a piece of a duplicate of it , in the end of the Answer too ) is extreamely unreasonable and obnoxious ; wherein they suppose ( yea , little lesse then in terminis affirme ) that they that will be satisfied what the Ordinance meaneth , by making it an errour , to hold , That a man ought to beleeve no more , then what by his reason he is able to comprehend , must read the Socinian Books , and there inform themselves what their proper opinion is . For is it in any degree reasonable , equall , or just , that such an Ordinance or Law should be made ( and that for the imprisonment , which is , by interpretation , the utter undoing of men , in case of delinquency ) the sense or meaning whereof they are in an utter incapacity to understand , unlesse they read such books , which first are onely extant in such a language , which not one of an hundred is able to Sect. 92. understand ; and secondly , are so rare , and hard to be gotten , that for the space of 13 yeers and upwards ( ever since my comming to the citie ) though I have from time to time made a narrow inquiry after them , and laid out in severall places , where I conceived I should be most likely to speed , for some or other of them , yet could I never to this day procure , either for love or money ( as the saying is ) so much as any one of them .

Their groundlesse mistake , about what the Querist ( as they say ) would imply to be the sense of the words in the Ordinance ; and their turning of the Querie , with a wet finger , as if there were nothing materiall in it , but an heap● of words , I passe by and pardon , being content they should be numbred amongst their infirmities quotidianae incursionis .

In their Answer to the thirtieth Querie they maintaine , that Sect. 92. the Ordinance doth expresse , what it meaneth by obstinacie , when it threateneth the publishing of such and such doctrines with obstinacy . Their reason is , because the Ordinance appoints admonition to go before punishment . But is this an explication of what it meaneth , by obstinacy ? Certainly these grand Assertors of the Ordinance , had quitted themselves upon termes of more wisedome for the honour of it , if they had plainly g●●●ted , that it had not indeed made any sufficient explication of it selfe in that particular . For is a man to be judged obstinate , who shall do that , though after admonition , which , his admonition notwithstanding , he judgeth , and that upon good grounds , to be his duty to doe ? Were the Apostles obstinate , for preaching in the na●● of Jesus , after that the High-Priest , Rulers , and Elders , solemnly met in a Councill , had admonished them ; yea , and straitly charged and commanded them , that they should in no wise speak or teach any more in that Name * * Act. 4. 18. . Oh England ! awake , ( for I feare thou sleepest ) look about thee , and consider , how easily , and when thou least thinkest of it , thou maist be an obstinate offender , if men of this spirit should be thy Judges .

In their 31 Answer , they tell a mysticall or mistie story ; of Sect. 93. the sense or meaning whereof I am no wayes guilty ; yet I shall tell it after them , because some ( possibly ) may understand it , though I cannot . As some perhaps ( say they ) of the Querists friends may be thanked for it ( they speake of that strong opposition insinuated in Sect. 93. the Querie , between the government established by the Parliament , and that so importunately desired by the Ministers ) who have endeavoured to binde heavy burthens upon others , ever persecuting them for not yeelding to those things , which even the consciences of those that presse them , know they cannot , and beleeve , they may not , yeeld unto ; so carefull and tender are they of their Brethrens consciences ; so is it neither of that kinde they would have it , being no way in favour of there Ind●pendency . For

First , It is the strangest news to me that I have heard many a day , that any of my friends should deserve thankes , either 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , for the opposition they speake of between the two Governments . I cannot believe that any person , man , or woman , Congregationally inclined , did ever either perswade any of the Ministers they speake of , to oppose that Government by Presbytery , which is established by the Parliament ; nor yet distill into them any of that spirit , or those principles , out of which they oppose it . How then should they be accessary to the opposition ?

Secondly , whereas they charge the friends of the Querists yet further , with endeavouring to binde heavy burthens upon others , ever persecuting them for not yeelding to , &c. this is tidings , yet seven degrees stranger then the other . If it be true , then is the scandall of Independency ceas●d from amongst us . For if Independents also endeavour to binde heavy burthens upon others , and to persecute men for not yeelding unto those things , which in conscience they cannot yeeld unto then are we all of one minde and of one judgement . and practice the same things . But

Thirdly . I would faine know , what heavy burthens they are , which the independents ( since they must be so called ) endeavor to binde upon others . Doe our Brethren of the Presbyterian interest , call or judge this a heavy ▪ burthen to be restrained from , or not to have their hand strengthened by the Parliament , or Lawes unto , the troubling or molesting of their Brethren , who dissent in some particulars from them ? I know no other burthen but this , any wayes endeavoured by any of that parswasion to be imposed , or bound upon them . If they call or count this a burthen , better they hurthened with the peace of men of a better conscience then themselves , then eased or relieved by their unjust pressures . Sect. 94.

Fourthly , I am yet farre more desirous to know , what persecution , they , or any of their judgement , have suffered from In dependents , for not yeeding to those things , which even the consciences of those that presse them , know they cannot , and believe they may not , yeeld unto . If they shall referre me for satisfaction herein to that which follows in the sequel of this answer , where they speak of some , who , under the name of Brethren , that have so much cryed out against persecution in their words and writings , have yet attempted and proceeded in the strangest persecution that ever was amongst professed Christians , to wish and joy in the imposition of that upon their Brethren , which themselves , who are for the imposition of it , yet count unlawfull to be submitted unto ; I must professe that I am so farre from receiving satisfaction hereby in the least , in reference to that desire , that I look upon the reference , as a sending of me from the twilight to midnight , to read a dim print ; or as an unworthy insulting over my petition , in giving me a stone , instead of the bread which I defired . But.

First , Though the persecution they here speak of , be , as they say , Sect. 94. very strange , yea , as I say , yet more strange , then as they present it ; so strange , that I believe it was never yet attempted , neither in these daies , nor in the daies of any of their forefathers , amongst the men they speak of , professed Christians ; yet is it not of that devouring or fiery calculation , of which many of those persecutions are , which are daily breathed forth by the lips and pens of many of their Interest , against those who wish them no harm . But

Secondly , It is not a little strange to me , that they should represent that as a persecution so STRANGE , as never yet attempted among professed Christians , when as themselves ( if it be persecution ) have attempted , yea , and practised it in this very discourse . For doe they not in their Answer to the second Querie , p. 6. impose it upon , yea and solemnly charge ( which is more then to wish ) the Querists own Church or Congregation , as they regard the honour of God , and our Lord Jesus Christ , and the Authority of the Spirit , by which the Holy Apostle delivered those fore-mentioned Anathema's , that they put him away from among them , and deliver him to Satan ? and yet doe they not withall judge it utterly unlawfull , for the members of a particular Church or Congregation , Sect. 95 to exercise authority over their Pastour , or to proceed to a sentence of excommunication , especially , against the cheife officer , by and of themselves ? Therefore , if to wish or joy in the imposition of that upon their Brethren , which themselves , who are for the imposition of it , yet count unlawfull to be submitted unto , be so strange a persecution , as they render it ; certainly themselves , and thousands more of their friends , are the strangest persecutours ( and that with the strangest persecution ) that ever were . For what joy anh stamping with the foot hath there been amongst the children of high-Presbytery , for this Answer to the Queries , ( as empty as it is ) and more emphatically , for the shamelesse piece of outrage , committed in that part of this Answer , which relates to the second Querie , where the sayd strange persecution is so vigorously acted .

Thirdly , Till these men shall make due proofe , that that Sect. 95. strange persecution they speake of , hath been indeed attempted and proceeded in by persons interessed in judgement for the Congregationall way ; I must looke upon the report and charge ( and shall desire others also to looke upon them with the same eye ) as Nehemiah look'd upon the contents of Sanballats letter , to which he returned this answer . There are no such things done as thou sdyest , but thou fainest them out of thine own heart * * N●h . 6. 8. . ● shal not believe without a double voucher , that ever any Idependent , either wished , or joyed in the imposition of any thing upon their Brethren , which yet they counted unlawfull to be submitted unto . Probatio incumbit affirmanti . But

Fourthly , Whereas they say and grant in Answer to this Querie , that Presbyteriall Government in the Ordirance , must needs signifie that which it doth in other Ordinances of Parliament , that Government which the Parliament hath begun to settle , ( and consequently , it cannot signifie that Government by Presbytery so importunely desired by the Ministers , there being so unpleasing a difference between them ) they answer ( I confesse ) with some ingenuitie , and that which may doe good service .

Fiftly and lastly , when they further say , that the Government setled by the Parliament , is not of that kinde they ( the Querists friends , they mean , Independents ) would have it , themselves fairly take of that charge of strange persecution , which ( as we heard ) they fastened on them ; viz. in wishing or joying in the imposition of that upon their Brethren , which yet they count unlawfull to be submitted unto . For certainly no man wisheth or joyeth in that , which is not of that kinde of thing , that he would have ; much lesse in the enacting , or imposing of it .

In their 32 and 33 Answer , ( for here they answer double ) they Sect. 96. except against the Queries : but thinke ye for what ? Surely for a very innocent offence ; viz. for nothing but desiring to know and understand , ( and that upon sufficient account given of such a desire ) what the Ordinance meaneth , by blaspheming the name of God , or impugning the word of God , WILLINGLY AND PRESVMPTVOVSLY ; and further to know , by whom the Admonition is to be given , the inefficaciousnesse wherof upon the parties admonished , brings their sins and errors under the dint and stro●e of the Ordinance . Notwithstanding , having first made a light essay , to justify the Ordinance in her non-explica●ion of her terms , WILLINGLY , PRESVMPTVOVSLY , by the example of God himselfe , who made a Law , Numb . 15. 30. which sayth expresly , the man that doth presumptuously , shall dye , and yet tell him no more then the Ordinance doth , what is meant by presumptuously ; and againe , in her concealing her intent about her Admonitour , from the Apostles bidding Titus reject an Heretique after the first and second admonition , without describing what h● meanes by an admonition , ( as if the Querie had been as simple as the Answer , and made such a demand as this ) after ( I say ) this light and harmelesse velitation , wherein the aire is beaten , instead of the Queries ; they come to the maine body of their Answer to both the Queries , which is this : Neither is it any hard matter to understand what it is to bla●pheme willingly , which can signifie nothing else , but a mans owne understanding the words which ●● speakes , to be reproachfull word● against God , or she Scriptures , or the Trinity ; which ( they adde ) will easily appeare , either by the nature of the words themselves , or at least by his Answer , when he shall be called in question about it . But

First , I confesse that any thing , relating to the prejudice of such Sect. 97. men , whom we have a desire to make Delinquents and bring under censure , though never so doubtfull , yet will easily app●●●● to us in this posture . It is the manner of Gangrena , when she is challenged and charged face to face , with her shamelesse and brazen-fac'd traducements of worthy and blamelesse men , being not able to give any tolerable account of truth in one story of ten which she reports ; It is her manner ( I say ) tofling out her hand against those that come to her , with a desire to make that streight , which she hath made crook'd , and tell them over and over , that she hath received satisfaction , she hath received satisfaction . And this is all the account and satisfaction , that in any way of fairnesse and love , is to be had from her . Certainly she is more beholding to the impotency of her owne desire , to staine the honour of Indepency and her sons , for that satisfaction she receiveth about the truth of farre the greatest part of her stories , then to any steadinesse or worth of information that is brought unto her . Dum sibi quisque placet , credula turba sumus . i. e. Faith is at hand for what we would beleeve .

And for the two 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , or meanes of discovery mentioned in the Answer in hand , to make it easily appeare , when a mans own understanding judgeth the words which he speaketh to be reproachfull against God , or the Scriptures , they are very ambiguous Oracles ; and hard is the condition of that man , whose life or liberty shall be suspended upon their Answer , especially as the consulters , and judges of this Answer may be . But

Secondly , Suppo●e we have a piece of a tolerable answer to the Query , about what is meant by the word , WITTINGLY , yet I presume they will not say , that we have any thing like an Answer , concerning the intent of the word , PRESVMPTVOVSLY . For what ? will they vest the prerogative of God in the makers of the Ordinance ; and plead , that because he commands , without explaining , therefore they may warrantably doe the like ? Besides , though God did not explain many things of difficult interpretation in the letter of his Laws , given unto the Jews ; yet was there ●ittle or no danger of committing any errour in judgement , or doing any thing unjustly by reason of such difficulties , because ( as was formerly said ) the minde of God in all doubtfull and difficult cases , was ready to be communicated unto them without any danger of mistake , by the standing Ordinance of his Oracle among them . If the makers of the Ordinance , and those that are to judge men upon occasion of the Ordinance ; had any such Ordinance as this , any such Oracle to consult in difficult cases , as that amongst the Jews , well might we beare generalities and ambiguities of termes in their Laws . But alasse ! their Oracles are flesh , and not spirit ; and ap● to put more affection , then judgement , into their Answers . And besides all this ; there is little question to be made , but that the sense and import of the word PRESVMPTVOVSLY , was fixed , and known to be determinately one , amongst the Jews , when the Law mentioned was given by God ; whereas now it is volatile amongst us , and is sometimes here , and sometimes there , and sometimes no man knows where ; as appears by that passage cited from Mr. Prynns pen in the Query . So that the Divine Paralell insisted upon , doth no wayes relieve the Ordinance in that streight , whereinto it is brought by the Querie about the word , PRESVMPTVOVSLY . But

Thirdly and lastly , we have a meer nullitie instead of satisfaction , Sect. 98. about the person by whom the Admonition mentioned in the Ordinance , is to be administred ; as likewise about those other materiall circumstances , which the Querie toucheth upon . I must crave leave to represent the words of the Querie , that so the emptinesse of the Answer may more fully appeare . Thus then the Querie , modestly , in as much as the said sins committed contrary to a●monition , are so severely punishable by the Ordinance ; by whom is it intended that this admonition must be given , to bring the said sins under the di●t and stroke of the Ordinance ? whether by a Magistrate onely , or by a Minister ; and that either in his publique Ministery , and in generall , or in private , and in personall addresse ? or by any man , of what ranke , or quality soever ? To all these particulars , we have an Answer given , which doth not so much as touch ▪ no , nor yet so much as face any one of them . Whether it be worth the transcribing or no , we shall bestow the courtesie upon it . This then is their Answer , [ to a question not put to them ] And for the word , Admonition , it may be asked him [ the Querist ] whether he will object against the Apostle , for bidding Titus reject an Heretique after a first and second Admonition , without describing what he means by Admonition . But good Gentlemen , the Querist was not troublesome unto you , with desiring to kvow , what the Ordinance meaneth , by the word , Admonition ; but from whom , and according to what manner of administration , it must be received by him , who by walking contrary to it , shall become a Delinquent against the Ordinance . Are not the Queries substantially answered , and to admiration ( at least ) yea , and to the utter downfall of Independency , by such Answers as these ? But , nunquam sera est ad bonos mores via ; and it may be the reere of their Answers will be more masculine , and make attonement for the front and maine body , which have turned the backe , and not the face , upon their enemies . Let us therefore passe on , to

Their 34 Answer . In this they tell us , that the Ordinance declines Sect. 99. not the punishment of Blasphemy , as appointed in the New Testament , whereof they annex this close demonstration : for though excommunication be not setled by the Parliament in any case , yet blasphemy is expresly by the Ordinance of Parliament punished with suspension , which is in order to excommunication , ( or delivering up unto Sathan ) and when excommunication comes to be setled , there is no question but blasphemy shall be so punished . But in the meane time , the present question is not , how Blaspemy is like to be punished , when the Parliament shall come to settle excommunication ; but whether , not any Ordinance of Parliament , but the Paper Ordinance which occasioned the Queries , doth Christianly or reasonably , in declining the punishment of Blasphemy expresly appointed by God in the New Testament , and to preferre a punishment mentioned onely in the Old , &c. It seemes by their Answer , that they yeild the said Paper-Ordinance guilty of the crime queried , by asserting the honour of the Parliament , as having done in part , and intending further to doe Christianly and reasonably , in making Blasphe 〈…〉 punishable with Excommunication , or delivering up unto Sathan ; which is the punishment expr●sly appointed by God for this sinne in the New Testament ; whereas the said Paper-Ordinance , in opposition to the Ch●istian intentions of the Parliament in this behalfe , makes it punishable with death . There is no way for them to wash their hands of the prevarication , but by professing themselves to be Erastians , and of their judgement , who by delivering up unto Sathan , will have nothing else to be meant , but cutting off by death by the civill Magistrate . And yet neither would this be any proper salve for the soare ; unlesse they will further shame themselves with this explication ; that when they say , that Blasphemy is expresly by the Parliament punished with suspension , in order to Excommunication , or delivering to Sathan , they meane , in order to cutting off by the Magistrates sword with death : and thus reconcile the Old Testament and the New , touching the punishment appointed for Blasphemy in the one and the other .

Secondly , When in the sequell of this Answer , they affirme , that that generall sentence of not bearing the sword in vaine , and being a Minister of God , a revenger of wrath to him that doth evill , not onely allows , but commands a Magistrate to make a Law for punishment of Blasphemy even with the civill sword ; and that according to this Querists owne conscience , unl●sse he will dare so farre to blaspheme , as to say , that a Blasphemer is not an evill doer . First , the Querist and his conscience are so farre from the Blasphemy of this new modell , I meane of saying , th●t a Blasphemer is not an evill doer , that he judgeth ( and not without some ground ) that himselfe judgeth a Blasph●mer to be an evill do●r in an higher degree , then the Cata. Querists themselves . And yet secondly , neither he , nor his conscience know any competent ground to thinke , that the generall sentence they speake of , doth any wayes command a Magistrate to make a Law for punishment of Blasphemy with the civill sword . He hath formerly given a free and large account of his judgement and sence of that S●ntence , in his d●fence of his seventh Querie .

And whereas they pretend , that the New Testament mentio●s ●● particular civill punishment at all ▪ bec●use it speakes not at all unto ●i●ill Magistrates , who were then ●ll generally Pagan , &c. I answer , that if they thinke that Magistrates have any whit the more power for being Christians , or the lesse , for bei●g Pagans ; or that the duties of Magistrat●s , are either any wayes multiplied to a greater , or contracted to a smaller number , by any difference whatsoever in the persons in whom it is vested , their thought is not commensurable with the truth . That which belongs to a Magistrate , as a Magistrate , belongs unto any , unto every Magistrate whatsoever : and that which belongs unto a Christian , as a Christian , belongs unto every Christian whatsoever . It is a weake conceit to imagine that Paganisme should excuse any man from any duty whatsoever appropriate to that relation or office which he suste●nes . Sins are not wont to excuse one another . So then Pagan Magistrates lying under the Law of Magistracy , as well as Christian , there is little question to be made , but that what the Apostle speakes to or of , either in regardof their office , duty or place of Magistracy , he speakes unto both . But

Thirdly , When they leave their owne occupations of making Sect. 100. Answers , and instead hereof turne Querists , and make Questions , they doe not quit themselves workmen-like in their new trade . For here they demand ▪ Will this Querist offer to say , that it is neith●r reasonable nor Christian to punish that detestable wickednesse with d●ath now , which is mentioned , 1 Cor. 5. 1. because the New Testament doth not expresse the punishment of death , as due to it , which the Old did , Levit. 20. 11. Or if he can allow himselfe to be so impudent , will he allow no punishment at all for murther , or adultery , because the New Testament mentions no civill punishment for such wickednesse ? what is there in either of these Queries , to straine the Quer●sts pen in giving answer , more then there would be in these ( in case I should propose them to them ) to put either them , or their wits or their consciences , to it , to finde an Answer ; will they say , that it is lawfull for the major and stronger party of Professours in a State or Kingdome , though the worse , to tread and trample the minor or lesser part under their feet , though the better ? Or if they can allow themselves to be so impudent , as to assert this , will they allow those that are troden upon , no recompence from Heaven for their unjust sufferings , because the Lawes of men make no provision for their satisfaction in such a case ? Would the Gentlemen take it well , if I should addresse my selfe unto them in two such Queries as these ; though I believe I should not put them to the charge of many thoughts to returne an Answer to them ? But to these Queries , the Querist answereth freely and plainly ; that he judgeth it very reasonable and Christian to punish , not onely that particular wickednesse about which they Querie , with the punishment appointed by God in the Old Testament which is death , though the New Testament expresseth no such punishment , ●●●ue to it , but murthers also , adulteries , and all other sins and misdem●anors whatsoever committed against the Law and Light of nature , with civill punishments answerable to their natures and demerits respectively , whether by death , or otherwise . Onely he desires to adde two things for the further explication of himselfe upon the case . First , that he deemeth it not equall , or of any faire consistence with the light of nature , that two severall punishments , not onely distinct , but opposite in their natures , both of them the highest and greatest in their respective orders and kindes , should be decreed by one and the same Authority to be inflicted for one and the same sinne , or offence . Secondly , that he judgeth it most reasonable and Christian , that when any sinne , whereof there are many kindes and degrees , some against the light and law of nature , others not ; shall by a Law be made punishable with any civill punishment , especially with death ; that that , both kinde and degree of this sinne , against which the severity of this Law is intended and bent , be particularly named , described , and set out in the letter of this Law .

That wherewith they close this Answer , themselves say , that it was before mentioned in the case of the seducer to Idolatrie ; and I like wise desire to referre the Reader for his satisfaction about it , to what hath formerly been argued upon this case .

There is little or nothing , either in their Argument upon , or Sect. 101 , in their Answer to , the 35 Querie , of the spirit or purpose thereof . The Reader may please to compare them . Onely they speake comfortably in their Answer , ( if they would make it good ) when they tell us , that though the Querist would faine suppose congregations ; which belong not to a Parish Church ; yet our Lawes ●now none such . Long may our Lawes , and Lawyers too , injoy the happinesse of this ignorance ; and know no other congregations then those which belong to Parish Churches . I confesse that could I have presomed so far of the Ordinance , that it had taken no knowledge of any Congregations , but such , well might this Querie have kept company with things that are not .

Nor is their 36 Argument framed to the Querie . However in Sect. 102. their Answer they dissemble it , and smite the Querist with their Censorian mace , for saying , that doubtlesse it is not lawfull to teach Children , or whosoever , to pray , unlesse we can reasonably judge them capable of our Instruction in this kinde . I thought such a saying as this had been innocent enough , to escape the Inquisitors office . But so officious ( ●t seems ) they are that they must have a saying to ●● : and their saying is this . Although this Querist is so con●●dent , as to say , Doubtlesse it is not lawfull ( by the way , Doubtlesse , doth not alwayes import confidence , but sometimes rather an allay thereof ) yet he not onely therein contradicts the generall practise ●●th of our Divines and Christians , who began to teach children to pray , as soone as they begin to speake or understand , but opposes Christ himselfe ▪ who justified the childrens crying Hosanna to the son of David , when it cannot reasonably be thought they understood so much of him , as to have learned how to pray , &c. Reader , canst thou thinke that these men understand the nature of a Contradiction ? I feare they are better at the practice , then the Theorie , of Contradictions . But , if thou hast ploughed with these Gentlemens Heyfe● , I pray thee help me to finde out their riddle . The Lord Christ saith , ( speaking of those that cried Hosanna to him ) I tell you , that if these should hold their peace , the st●nes would ●rie * * Luke 19. 40. . Now suppose the persons of whom our Saviour speakes , had been defective in the service , and so the stones had supplyed this defect , and cried ( as he saith they would have done ) as they did ; can it not reasonably b● thought , that our Saviour would have justified these stones , in such a seuse , and upon such terms , as now ●e justified the other ? And in case he had done this , justified the stones in crying Hosanna ; can it reasonably be thought , that this fact of his , would have justified those , that should have gone about to teach stones to pray ? or have contradicted the assertion of those , who should notwithstanding affi●m it to be unlawfull , to go about such a worke , as to teach stones to pray ? But

Secondly , I wonder upon what ground , or ingagement of their reasons , they should say , that it cannot reasonably be thought that they understood so much of him as to have learned how to pray . Those that are called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 Mat. 21 ▪ 15. ( the place cited by them ) which in this place is commonly translated ▪ children ( else where , servants ) are Luk. 19. 37 , 39. called 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , disciples ; which doubtles argueth more then a probability , that they understood ( or at least were capable of understanding ) so much of Christ , as to have learned ( in some measure at least ) how to pray . Besides , the word 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 , though sometimes it signifieth ● young child , yet more frequently it signifieth a child of some growth and 〈…〉 ature capable of instruction , &c. sometimes ( as was said ) a young man , or servant ; the diminutive , 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 being more frequently used to signifie a little , or young child . So that there is very little in the word , children , to countenance these men , in their assertion .

Thirdly , Nor doth that testimony cited from David , Psal. 8. 1. Sect. 103. Out of the mouths of Babes and Sucklings hast thou ordained praise , by which they say that Christ justified the Childrens crying Hosanna , any wayes attest their notion . For first , certainly those that were able to cry Hosanna , were neither Babes nor Sucklings , ( in the literall and strict signification of the words . ) Secondly , neither by this testimony did Christ intend so much to justifie the act of the children , as the wisedome , and power of God in the dispensation . As when Babes and Sucklings shew forth the praise of God ( in Davids sense ) this act of theirs ( such as it is ) doth no wayes commend or justifie them , but onely the gracious providence of * * Ipsi quidem muti sunt , sed mirabilis Dei providentia , qua t● ipsis reluet , instar est sonorae et magniloquae facu●…iae . God about them . They ( saith Calvin upon the place , as cited by Matthew , speaking of these Babes and Sucklings ) are mute and dumbe : but the wonderfull Providence of God which shines forth in them , is instead of a sounding and stately eloquence .

Thirdly , The place in the Psalme , is more generally understood in a metaphoricall sense , by expositors ; and doubtlesse was no otherwise cited , or applyed by our Saviour here , viz. then as a Scripture holding forth and attesting this providentiall method , course , and practise of God ; to make the meanest and weakest of his creatures , bountifull contributors unto his praise and glory , Fourthly , ( and lastly for this ) in case God should desire extraordinary praise and glory from children not yet capable of Instruction , or learning how to pray , the officiousnesse of men in attempting to teach them how to pray , would rather be injurious unto , then any wayes comporting with , this his desire . For whatsoever he in this case shall worke in an extraordinary way for his praise or glory , in , or upon , or for , such children ; the effect and fruite hereof will in all likelyhood , be attributed ( atleast in part ) to the seemingly-pious endeavours of those , who taught them to pray , though to no purpose , at least with no effect .

Fourthly , and lastly , Whereas they avouch it the generall practise both of our Divines and Christians , that they began to teach children to pray as soone as they begin to speake , or understand ; if instead of the disj●nctive , or , they had put , the conjunctive , and , I should rather have beleeved them . If they know some , either Divines , or Christians ( though the opposition , or distinction , is not very lovely ) who teach their children to pray as soone as they begin to speak , whether they understand or no ; I know others , that judge such a practise little lesse then the taking of the Name of God in vain , and in that respect forb●●re it . So that howsoever the practise is not so generall , as these men seem to import . And to me it seems still unreasonable ( nor do I know how to helpe it , but by a surrender of my judgement into the hands of unlawfull Lords ) that men should bestow their time and labour in teaching or instructing such subjects , in any knowledge , skill , or facultie whatsoever , which they cannot reasonably judge to be capable of their Instructions .

In their 37 Answer , they suppose two great Suppositions , Sect. 104. which I beleeve that seven y●ers study of all the Divines in the world , will hardly make good . As first , that themselves , and men of their party , are i●gaged in the Truth in all things , or all opinions whatsoever mentioned in the Ordinance . From hence they argue and conclude themselves , to be more ●eet and competent Judges in such cases , which may , or shall fall out about any the points in the Ordinance , then any persons whatsoever , who in their judgements stand undeclared about them . The second is like unto it , and is this , that not on●ly many , or most of the things mentioned in the Ordinance , but all of them are cleerly enough determined in the Scripture , to warrant the consciences of those that are instructed in their doctri●es , to punish those that persist to publish and maintaine any thing contrary to them . We never had ●uch a prospect of high Presbyterie in her exaltation , as we have from the tops of these two mountaines . But ,

First , It seems that a very low degree of cleernesse in the Scriptures ( I feare , doubtfulnesse and obscuritie it selfe ) will warrant the consciences of these men , to crush their opposers , and all those that shall stand in their way , being upon their full speed towards their ●ase , honor , and other accommodations in the world . He that supposeth gaine to be godlinesse , * * 1 Tim. 6. 5. will find Scriptures in abundance cl●●r enough ( as these men count cleernesse ) to warrant his conscience in the practise of covetousnesse , unmercifulnesse , and oppression without end . It is a thing of most dangerous consequence , when men have put the stumbling-blocks of their iniquity before their faces , to go and a●ke counsell of the Lord * * Ezek. 14. 3 , 4. ▪

Secondly , Suppose the Scriptures be cleer enough to warrant the consciences of these men , to hold themselves with the Ordinance in the points and doctrines countenanced therein ; yet what cleernesse have they in these , more then darknesse it self , to warrant them in the punishing of those , who are contrary-minded unto them , especially in some of these ? Certaine I am , that they have produced nothing in this discourse , which hath the least glimmering of any cleernesse in this kinde . But ▪

Thirdly , When they expresse themselves indefinitely , thus ; cleerly enough , to warrant the consciences of those that are instructed in those Doctrines , to punish those ▪ &c. do they intend to interesse all their proselytes , tagge and ragge , without exception , when once they have imparted the Doctrines of the Ordinance unto them ▪ in a warrantablenesse of power , to punish those that persist to publish any thing contrary to them ? Doe they warrant the consciences of the prophane and rude multitude to become their auxiliaries in persecuting and molesting their conscientious Brethren ?

Fourthly , whereas they determine , that in every point , whether Sect. 105. cleerly , or not cleerly , determined , mens being already ingaged in the Truth , doth not make them unmeet , but rather more meet to be judges in such cases ( viz. then those , who as yet stand undeclared ; for so the Querie ) no considering man ( I suppose ) can concurre with them in their determination . The end of judging and deciding controverted opinions in Religion between party and party , being first the uniting of their judgements ; and secondly , ( if it may be ) the uniting them in the Truth ; evident it is , that those who are looked upon by one of the parties , as professed enemies to their judgement , and ingaged on the contrary side , are like to prove but mediatours of small value to comprimize between them , and those who dissent in judgement from them . Their very ingagement on the contrary side , cannot in reason but be looked upon as a very great disadvantage to what they shall speake or argue , be it for the Truth . Topicall arguments from a friend , or a person no wayes ingaged or declared against men , are wont to go further , and to doe more in swaying the judgements of men , then seven demonstrations from a professed and known enemy .

Fifthly , and lastly ; whereas they yet adde ▪ that if they be supreme Magistrates , who are already ingaged for the Truth , they have Authority from God to appoint subordinate Judges , viz. such who are also already ingaged in the same Truth ; First ▪ I desire to know , for what end these subordinate Judges should be appointed ? what shall their work or imployment be ▪ Onely to tell men with Authority and power , and an iron Scepter in their hand , that they are the men that are Orthodox and know the Truth ; and to give sentence of imprisonment , death , or the like ▪ against all those ▪ who will not think as honourably of them , as they doe of themselves ? The truth is , that all the work and service that such Judges can doe by vertue of this their deputation , being truely interpreted , amounts to no more . Secondly , I would learn from these men , whose learning ( it seemes ) teacheth them the confidence of being ingaged in all Truth , where God hath given any Authority to supreame Magistrates , suppose ingaged in the Truth , to appoint subordinate Judges , to determine and judge amongst the people , what is , or shall be , or must be Truth , and what not , Certain I am , that if God hath given any such Authority or power to supreme Magistrates ingaged in , or for , the Truth ; he hath given the same to Magistrates of like supremacy , though ingaged against the Truth . The Authority and power of supreme ▪ Magistracy is uniforme , standing and fixed ( at least in respect of God ) as the abstracted natures and essences of things alwayes are ; nor are they capable of any variation , either dextrorsùm , or sinistrorsum , either sursùm , or deorsùm , by any qualification whatsoever , whether on the right hand , or on the left , in the persons invested with it . But of this before .

The Gentlemen have but one opportunity more ( in this Discourse ) to gather up the credit , which they have scattered hitherto . Let us see how learnedly they take their leaves .

The truth is , that in their Answer to their last Argument , they Sect. 106 ▪ quit themselves more unworthily , then in any of the former ; ( except haply in the second ; when , it seemes , they dealt by their credits and consciences both , as those that stoned Steven , did by their garments , when to expedite themselves for the work , they laid them down at a young mans ●eet , whose name wa● Saul ▪ * * Act. 7. 58. &c. 22. ●0 . . Their minor proposition in this Argument , is this . God hath given no authority to civill Magistrates or others , either in the Old or New Testament , to make an Exposition of any clause in the Law , controverted between men of equall worth , a matter punishable with imprisonment or death . This proposition ( say they ) is not true : but have they not said it to the shame and confusion of their pens for ever ? or can they finde a fourth man under Heaven , that is possest but of the ordinary interest of a man , willing to venture his reputation with theirs , in such a crasie bottome , as this ? But let us see how and with what coards , they under-gird their vessell , for feare of falling in pieces .

First , they say , the minor is not true ; unlesse any man can prove , that there neither is , nor ever was , any authority in any Civill Magistrate ( for if not in them , then in no others ) in any matter of Religion . But ,

First , doth the truth of any one proposition , depend upon any mans ability , to prove another to be true ? Certainly , the minor , which they deny , may be true , though no man can prove , either that which they propose , or any other proposition whatsoever . The truth of propositions is independent ; though the manifestation or proofe of this truth , be not .

Secondly , what truth , or colour of Truth , is there in that hypotheticall ; If not in them , then in no others . Was there no Authority in the Apostles about matters of Religion ? or were they Civill Magistrates ? Or if their meaning be , that in case Magistrates have no Authority in matters of Religion , then have they none in other matters ; the connexion is still as loose and wilde as before ; and not so much as an eye of a consequence in it . There is every whit as much sense and reason in this : If a man hath no gold , he hath no silver : Or in this , If a man hath not foure legges , he hath not two . But let us goe on with them , and see how they prove the necessity of proving that which they propose , to prove their minor untrue .

Forasmuch ( say they ) as there is no one point in Religion , but hath been controverted by one or other , who have had as much learning and gravity , as others of the contrary opinion , and by men of as much PRETENDED piety and conscience in their way , as others , except that of the Deity it self . But ,

First , How doe they prove , that there is no one point in Religion but hath been controverted by ●●● or other of equall learning and gravity , with th●se of the contrary opinion ? Nay , they had been worthy to lose all their Interest of Authority , if they had so much as attempted to prove or argue such a position as this . For confident I am that all the learning , wit , memory , books in the world , are not able to prove it . For f●●st , who knows how many points there are in Religion , but onely he that numbers the stars in the firmament of Heaven ▪ and knows the account of the Sands upon the Sea shore : Therefore to say , There is no one point in Religion , but hath been controverted , ( except that of the Deity ) is the saying of men that know not what they say ▪ Secondly , who hath weighed in a ballance the learning and gravity of men , so exactly , as to be able to say , these and these men are equall in both ; but onely he that hath weighed the mountaines in scales , and the hils in a ballance * * Esa. 40. 12. .

Secondly , whereas they adde , and by men of as much PRETENDED piety and conscience in their way ▪ as others ; they goe on the other side of the way , and baulk the Query , which doth not speak of any PRETENDED learning , gravity , piety , conscience , &c. but of such which are so in reality and Truth .

Thirdly , Not onely the generality of their Rule , but even the restraint , or exception it selfe which they make , is just matter of exception . For certainly the point of the Deitie it selfe , hath beene controverted amongst Philosophers ; and the names of some who maintained the negative , as Di●gora● and others , are to this day upon record in many writers .

Fourthly , To say that there is ●●●●● point of Religion but hath been controverted , &c. is , not onely a saying uncapable of any due probation by men , but of an extremely improbable , and importune import . For who can lightly imagine , that ever it was controverted between any , whether men ought not , as farre as is possible , to have peace with all men ; or againe , whether a man ought to love his neighbour as himselfe , with twenty and ten more of like consideration , which might soone be added . But ,

Fiftly , and lastly , suppose all that hath been opposed hitherto in this answer , were admitted for Truth ; what tittle , letter , syllable , word , sentence , is there to be found in it , which so much as lookes towards a proofe of that conclusion , against which it pretends ; viz ▪ that God , neither in the 〈…〉 , not in the New Testament , hath given any 〈…〉 to the ●ivill 〈…〉 to ●●k● a● exposition of any clause in the L●● , cantravented 〈…〉 men of equall worth , parts , pi●●ie , &c. a matter 〈…〉 i ●ab●e ●ith 〈…〉 or death ▪ This ass●●t●on , which is the mi●●● donied by them , may well laugh at all the opposition that hath been 〈…〉 against it hitherto , in the face to scorne . But though he that went before ▪ was not H●●tor , yet he that followes , may be Achilles . Well , let us looke him in the face , howsoever . His physiognomy is this .

Yet itis ●●id●n● that in the Old Test 〈…〉ent , God comm●nded to punish with d●●●h , false Prophets , and 〈…〉 to Idolatri● , and ●acrificers to Mol●ch ; who all brought th●s● greatest matters of R●●igion to ●● contr●verted points . High Presbytery , hath all this while been beholding to Blasphemers , false Prophets , and seducers to Idolat●ie under the Old Testament , for the support of his cause and Kingdome . Here ( it seems ) Blasphemers are discharged from the service , and Sacrificers to M●lech entertained in their st●ad . But let ●● see how the cause prospers upon this new recrute of the Army , which maintaines it . All these , false Prophets , Seduc●rs , &c. Sacrificers , &c. brought those greatest matters of Religion to ●● controverted points .

First , How shall we doe for an Antecedent , to that Relative , THOSE ? Here is a serving-man , that wants a master . What great , or greater , or greatest matters of Religion , are THOSE , which were brought by the Por●or● spoken of , to bee contr●verted points ?

Secondly , How doe these Gentlemen prove ▪ or how doth it any wayes appeare , that the wicked persons they speake of , brought any of of the greatest matters of Religion to be controv●rted points ▪ Or if they did , or could prove this ; Yet ,

Thirdly , They have a worse crow to pull still , then that ; which i● , to prove , that they brought such matters ▪ the greatest matters of Religion , to be controverted points , between Priest and Pr●est , Scribe and Scribe , between le●●ned , grave , pious , and consciencions men ●n both sid●● . I hope they will not goe about to untie the knot wi●h this di●●onourable finger ; a●●er ●● false Prophets ▪ Seducers to Id●●●ri● , Sacri●●cers to M●l●eh , for learned , 〈…〉 conscientious men ; or of equall worth , parts , learning , judgement , conscience , with those Pries●● and Scrib●● , who were of greatest ●●●inencie in these , and opposed them in their judgements and wayes . If they will affirme this , they will doe it at the utmost perill of high Presbytery , which is not like to thrive after such a defence . If they will not affirme it , let them confesse that they have said nothing hitherto to the purpose , or point in Question . But it may be they will yet digge deeper , and finde the threasure at last . They worke on , thus .

But more then this , ( we have need of more , or else we are like Sect. 107. to have nothing ) Deut. 17. 12. he expresly commanded , that even in all controverted points , he that would not stand to the sentence of the Judge , or of the High-Priest , should be put to death . Reader , be pleased but to run over with thine eye , that intire passage of Scripture , from which these men breake ofF a few words to serve their turne ; and thou wilt be tempted ( at least ) with a jealousie , lest they be men , who make no scruple at all to build up the honour of their cause , with the dishonour of the Scriptures . ( Read Dent. 17. from the beginning of verse 8. to the end of the 12. verse . ) For ,

First , Whereas they say , he expresly commanded , that EVEN in ALL controverted points , he that would not stand , &c. the tenour of the Scripture ( as to this point ) speaketh thus : If there arise ●matter too hard for thee in judgement , between bloud and bloud , between plea and plea , and between stroke and stroke , being matters of controversie within thy gates : then shalt thou arise , and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall chuse , &c. † Deut. 17. 8. Is a matter of controversie , between blond and bloud , between stroke and stroke , plea and plea , [ about these ] ALL , EVEN ALL , controverted points ? Or is great A , ALL , EVEN ALL the letters of the Alphabet ?

Secondly , Are matters of controversie between bloud and bloud , &c. matters of controversie between Priest and Priest , Scribe and Scribe , about the exposition of some clause in the Law ? ( which are the onely matters queried in the Querie . )

Thirdly , Nor doth God in this passage of Scripture , expresly command , without caution and limitation , that even in this controversie it selfe , he that would not stand to the sentence of the Judge , or High-Priest , should be put to death ; but onely then , when the Priests , the Levites , and the Judge , should give sentence , or informe them , according to the Sentence of the Law * * Deut. 17. 11.

Fourthly , Nor doth God here , either expresly , or so much as by intimation , command that any man in what matter of controversie soever , should be put to death , simply for not being willing or content to stand to the sentence of the Iudge , or of the High-Priest , but onely for doing presumptuously ; and this , in not hearkning unto the Priest , that was then to stand to minister before the Lord his God , or unto the Iudge , * * ver. 12. i. e. ( as the words will well beare ) for contemning or affronting either the Priest or the Judge , in their sentence ; or reproaching it as unjust , without any consideration had upon it . But in no reasonable construction of the word , can he be said to do presumptuously , who upon a respectfull and mature consideration of an opinion , or sentence given , and with expressions of reverence and honour towards him that either holds the one , or gives the other , is not able to bring his judgement or conscience to submit , either unto the one , as true ; or unto the other , as just . And yet ,

Fifthly , and lastly , Evident it is , from severall expres●ions in the passage of Scripture we speake of , * * Then thou shalt arise , and get thee up into the place which the Lord thy God shall ch●s● , v. 8. And thou shalt come unto the Priests , the Levites , and unto the judge that shal be in those dayes , and inquire , v. 9. And the man that will doe presumpt●ously , & will not hearken unto the Priests , that ●●andeth to minister there before ▪ the Lord thy God , &c. v. 12. Sect. 108. that that sentence of the Priest or Iudge , ( for the High ▪ Priest , which the Gentlemen speake of , appeares not , at least under that title , in the text ) against which he that should do presumptuously in not hearkning to it , was to be put to death ; was onely such a sentence , which the Priest did upon inquirie by Vrim and Thrummim , receive immediately , or however , infallibly , from the mouth of God himselfe . And ( for my part ) if our Inquisitours can give any satisfying account that the sentence , which they , or any other Judge , shall award against those , who shall be found Delinquents against the Ordinance , comes , or is given unto them , upon any such termes , ( I meane , by infallible revelation ) from God ; I shall thinke it equall and meet , that hee that shall doe presumptuously , and not hearken unto it , should be put to death .

We have now had the soule of this Answer , and have found it mortall ; yet what rejoycing is there in the words following , as if it were crown'd with glory . So farre is it ( say the men ) from Gods not giving in the Old Testament any Authority to make a controverted point a matter of death , or imprisonment . That which they say ▪ in these words , is scarce sense ; that which ( I suppose ) they would say , is not any thing they should say , whether they had a minde , either to speak Truth , or to their purpose . For , first , God never gave any Authority to make a controverted point a matter of death or imprisonment , but onely a presumptuous misdemeanour against a Divine sentence , given for the determination of such a point . Secondly , if he had made a controverted point , matter of either , yet unlesse this controverted point , could be proved ( which yet hath not been so much as attempted ) to have been a point controverted between Priest and Priest , between learned , grave , pio●s and conscientious men on both sides , it had been nothing to the point in hand , nor to the import of the Querie .

The Gentlemen Vindicators draw their last breath in these words : And in this Answer to these Queries , divers things have been s●ewed ▪ ( but none , as hath been proved , sufficient to prove ) that the same Authority belongs to the Civill Magistrate under the New Testament : which is also generally exprest by Divines under that phrase of being Custos , the Guardian of both the Tables of Gods Law ; and by the Prophet ( Esai . 49. Esai . 60. ) under those phrases of being Nursing Fathers to the Church , and bringing in their glory to it ; which must needs imply using their Authority to suppresse th●se dangerous Errors and Heresies , even by imprisonment or death inflicted , upon the obstinate maintainers and publishers of them , if no other means will serve . Reader , the common saying is verified in this Discourse , or Vindication : Qualis vita , finis ita . Such as the life , such is the death . It hath lived hitherto full of affection to the cause of high Presbytery ; but hath spoken weakly for it . So now it dies , without any declining in the one , or raising it self up in the other . But

First , what the meaning of Divines is , in that gener all expression , Sect. 109. The Civill Magistrate is Custos utriusque Tabulae , the keeper of both Tables , I confesse I doe not well understand . If it had been the saying of an Apostle , I should ( I conceive ) have judged my self under a deeper ingagement , to make a district inquiry into it , then now I doe . The richest and best sense of the saying , that I know , is this : The Civill Magistrate is the keeper of Both Tables ; that is , is in speciall manner obliged , by vertue of his Office and High Place of dignity amongst men , whereunto God hath called him , to be a diligent and exemplary observer and doer of the whole will of God ; contained in both the Tables of his Law . In such a phrase or figure of speech as this sense represents the saying in , the Apostle saith concerning the Magistrate we speak of , that he is the Minister of God unto thee for good . He is , that i● , by the ingagement of his place and Office , he ought to be a Minister of God unto thee , for thy good , Rom. 13. 4.

Another sense in goodnesse not much inferiour to the former , is this : The Civill Magistrate is the keeper of , &c. that is , is bound by the tenure of his place and Dignity , to provide ( above the rate of other men ) by all meanes authorized by God , that all duties commanded , either in the first or second Table , be performed by all under his jurisdiction . This ( I conceive ) is most likely to be the sence , wherein Divines and others so frequently use the saying . But this sence imports neither duty upon , no● power in this Magistrate , to compell men by the sword to be of his Religion ( though he be never so confident that his Religion is true , and the best that is , to be imbraced by men ) but only upon this supposition ( which with all the artificiall dressing and colouring that hath been bestowed upon it , could never yet be made to look like a Truth ) viz. that men really conscientious in their way , and peaceable , may contrary to their conscience , be forced into another way , by the materiall sword . The Magistrate is bound by all lawfull meanes whatsoever to procure the observation of both the Tables , and to guard every precept in them both , against all disobedience and contempt from men ; but he is not bound to doe so much , as the least haire on his head amounts unto , in any unrighteous way , though by it he might hope to purchase the perfect observation of all things commanded in both Tables , by men unto the worlds end .

Secondly , whereas they seek for that bloody Authority which they so much desire to vest in the Civill Magistrate , in the Prophet Isaiah , and think they have found it in those expressions , wherein he prophesies that Kings shall be Nursing Fathers unto the Church , and shall bring their glory to it ; I Answer .

First , that Nurses use to administer in milk , not in blood , unto Sect. 110. their children . Nor doth the notion or Relation of a Father , import any thing more , then care , love and tendernesse , towards their children . Now Fathers may abundantly expresse themselves towards their own children , in all these , without beating or slaying other mens Children , who in the same Towne , City , or Kingdome , live peaceably by theirs , and mean them no harme . Musculus ( a very learned and Orthodox Divine ) doth not understand the Prophecie , or promise of Kings being Nursing Fathers unto the Church , of the times of the Gospell , or of any affection which Kings in these dayes should shew unto it ( nay , he professeth that he thinkes the Holy-Ghost would have spake quite otherwise , had he intended to speake , or prophecie of th●se * * Cum cogito qualis sit facta Ecclesia , postquam Christianos est Principes nacta , ac qui fixt opum Ecclesiaslicorum fructus , existimo spiritum sanctum , fi de illis loqui voluisset , longe fuisse dicturum alia . Mu●c . in Esa. 49. 23. but conceives that it was fulfilled in that favour , which Daniel , Shadrach , Meshach , Abednego , Esther , Zorobabel , Ezra , with many others of the Iewish nation and Church , found in the eyes of the Kings of Babylon during the captivity * * Quemadm●dum olim Moses in aula Pharaonis , ita incaptivitate Babylonica , Daniel Sidrac , Misa● Abednego , in aula Regis Babel sunt educati . Nota est historia Esther , Zorobabelis , Edrae , &c. in quibus sane impletum est quod hic dicitur , erunt Reges ●utricii tui , &c. Ibid. ; who , as Nurses , and foster ▪ Fathers use to returne the Children which they bring up , unto the Parents , when they demand them , or are desirous to take them home ; so did these Kings ▪ restore these children of the Church unto God their Father demanding them , when they gave them liberty ( with other accommodations ) to returne into their owne Land . Yea , the Prophet hmiselfe explaines his prophecie of Kings being nursing Fathers unto the Church , according to the tenour of this exposition . Thou shalt also ( speaking unto the Church ) sucke the milke of the Gentiles , and shalt sucke the brest of Kings , &c. Esa. 60. 16. See also Esa. 61. 6. So that these nursing Fathers of whom Esa speakes , do no wayes nourish the conceit of these Gentlemen , concerning the Authourity or power of the Civill Magistrate under the New Testament .

Secondly , For that other expression , and shall bring their glory to it ( if it were to be found in this Prophecy , as I believe it is not ) this is more a stranger to their purpose then the former . For in what Dialect , or construction of words , can the cutting off , or punishing of erroneous persons , or Heretiques within the Church by Civill Magistrates , be termed , a bringing of their glory unto the Church ? There is ( I grant ) such an expression in the booke of the Revelation * * Revel. 21. 24. 26. ; but evident it ▪ is ( by comparing this place with Esa 60. throughout ) that by that glory , which the Kings of the Gentiles shall bring unto the Church , is meant nothing else but their wealth and riches ; which are called a mans honour , or glory , Gen. 31. 1. And of that which was our Fathers , hath he gotten all this glory . Yea , the Exposition is made by the Holy Ghost himself , Esa. 61. 6. Ye shall eate the riches of the Gentiles , and in their glory shall ye b●ast your selves , Besides ( as to the place in the Revelation ) evident it is , that it speaketh of such an estate or condition of the Church , when it shall be no wayes infested or indangered by Heretiques or Erroneous Persons , inasmuch as the Lord God Almighty , and the Lamb , intend then to bee the Temple of it * * Rev. 21 ▪ 22. . Thus then ye see how the infelicity of the Greek Proverb is falne upon these men ( the Vindicators ) 〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉〈◊〉 ; their Threasure proves but coales . No Scripture they can addresse or apply themselves unto for the support of their cause , will take any pity or compassion on them ( in that behalf . ) The Queries from the first to the last stand yet unanswered ; yea ( I fully beleeve ) unanswerable ; except it be by Answers , made of such water which will quench the iron furnace of High Presbytery .

FINIS .